Salvete omnes,

I respect the decision of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Consul to dismiss the trial against Appius Claudius Priscus, but I do not share his reasons. I feel deeply disgusted to think that an individual with the fanatical and despicable ideas of Priscus, should be a citizen of Nova Roma, and should keep on spreading those beliefs with entire impunity. For me, this is one especially sad day. I believe in Nova Roma and I will dedicate my efforts to work for her and to defend her.

Valete optime,

M•IVL•SEVERVS

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ROGATOR
INTERPRETER
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


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---Salve Artoria et Salvete Omnes:

This has been very unsettling to say the least, the entire matter. I
will be sorry if you go, but I do not know what manner of vow or
commitment you feel you have made to your patron deities.

I will suggest, that he didn't survive or not survive his trial
amica...as the trial itself was cancelled. So perhaps think on this
in your decision.

I'll be at work for a few hours today.

I'd me happy to talk with you IM, or anyone later today.

I think it is time for some constitutional amendments regarding the
citizenship clauses, and I'm opened the matter up for discussion in
the Senate and have asked for assistance in this regard.

Bene valete
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tita Artoria Marcella"
<icehunter@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Consul Modianus scripsit:
>
> >All of the above being the case I am terminating the trial
> >against Appius Claudius Priscus.
>
> I made a vow, albeit not to the gods, that if Appius Claudius

Priscus were to survive his trial and remain a citizen, I would
relinquish my own citizenship. I feel that strongly about his
presence among us. After he published his alternative e-mail is was
easy enough to learn his past and beliefs, and tonight his defense
arguments made me want to vomit.

>
> Consul, I do not understand your decision, but I respect it. The

choice is now mine as to whether to pretend Priscus no longer is a
part of NR, or to do as my conscience dictates and renounce my
citizenship. Tonight I am still in shock. Hopefully tomorrow will
bring an answer.

>
> Valete,
> Artoria Marcella
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"The Mind has its own goddess too. I note a sanctuary
Was vowed to Mind, during the terror of war with you,
Perfidious Carthage. You broke the peace, and astonished
By the consul's death, all feared the Moorish army.
Fear had driven out hope, when the Senate made their vows
To Mind, and immediately she was better disposed to them.
The day when the vows to the goddess were fulfilled
Is separated by six days from the approaching Ides." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"The consul, while all were panic-struck, himself sufficiently
undaunted though in so perilous a case, marshals, as well as the time
and place permitted, the lines which were thrown into confusion by
each man's turning himself towards the various shouts; and wherever he
could approach or be heard exhorts them, and bids them stand and
fight: for that they could not escape thence by vows and prayers to
the gods but by exertion and valour; that a way was sometimes opened
by the sword through the midst of marshalled armies, and that
generally the less the fear the less the danger. However, from the
noise and tumult, neither his advice nor command could be caught; and
so far were the soldiers from knowing their own standards, and ranks,
and position, that they had scarce sufficient courage to take up arms
and make them ready for battle; and certain of them were surprised
before they could prepare them, being burdened rather than protected
by them; while in so great darkness there was more use of ears than of
eyes. They turned their faces and eyes in every direction towards the
groans of the wounded, the sounds of blows upon the body or arms, and
the mingled clamours of the menacing and the affrighted. Some, as they
were making their escape, were stopped, having encountered a body of
men engaged in fight; and bands of fugitives returning to the battle,
diverted others. After charges had been attempted unsuccessfully in
every direction, and on their flanks the mountains and the lake, on
the front and rear the lines of the enemy enclosed them, when it was
evident that there was no hope of safety but in the right hand and
the sword; then each man became to himself a leader, and encourager to
action; and an entirely new contest arose, not a regular line, with
principes, hastati, and triarii; nor of such a sort as that the
vanguard should fight before the standards, and the rest of the troops
behind them; nor such that each soldier should be in his own legion,
cohort, or company: chance collects them into bands; and each man's
own will assigned to him his post, whether to fight in front or rear;
and so great was the ardour of the conflict, so intent were their
minds upon the battle, that not one of the combatants felt an
earthquake which threw down large portions of many of the cities of
Italy, turned rivers from their rapid courses, carried the sea up into
rivers, and levelled mountains with a tremendous crash." - Livy,
History of Rome XXII.5

"On the same account great games were vowed, at an expense of three
hundred and thirty-three thousand three hundred and thirty-three asses
and a third; moreover, it was decreed that sacrifice should be done
to Jupiter with three hundred oxen, to many other deities with white
oxen and the other victims. The vows being duly made, a supplication
was proclaimed; and not only the inhabitants of the city went with
their wives and children, but such of the rustics also as, possessing
any property themselves, were interested in the welfare of the state.
Then a lectisternium was celebrated for three days, the decemviri
for sacred things superintending. Six couches were seen, for Jupiter
and Juno one, for Neptune and Minerva another, for Mars and Venus a
third, for Apollo and Diana a fourth, for Vulcan and Vesta a fifth,
for Mercury and Ceres a sixth. Then temples were vowed. To Venus
Erycina, Quintus Fabius Maximus vowed a temple; for so it was
delivered from the prophetic books, that he should vow it who held the
highest authority in the state. Titus Otacilius the praetor vowed a
temple to Mens." - op. cit. XXII.10

The ancient Romans honored the goddess Mens ("Mind") on this day, to
fulfill a vow undertaken after a defeat by Hannibal in 217 BC. In
spring 217 BC, fresh from his victories at Tecino and Trebbia,
Hannibal and his Carthaginian army overtook and passed the army of
Roman Consul Cais Flaminius heading south toward Rome itself.
Flaminius was forced to play catch-up and pursued incautiously.
Hannibal decided to lay an ambush before another Roman army commanded
by the co-Consul Servilius could arrive to reinforce Flaminius. This
he did by sending men to light fires on the far hills of Tuoro to
decieve the Romans that they were safely at a distance. Then he drew
up his army on the hills overlooking the narrow Chiana Valley and the
narrow Malpasso Road which ran along side Lake Trasimene (Trasimeno).
At the head of the valley, he posted light missile troops and his
Celtiberian allies to block the road.

The next morning, confident that the Carthaginians were still at a
distance and despite the heavy morning fog, Flaminius put his army
into march column without advance scouts and began the march along the
Malpasso road. The van was stopped when its lead cohort ran into a
hail of missiles from Hannibal's blocking force. Then Hannibal sent
his whole army forward in a general charge, which reached the Roman
column before it was able to fully deploy. The confused legionaries
were forced to fight in open order. The Roman column was split into
three groups. The rear broke quickly under the weight of Hannibal's
cavalry and was driven into the waters of Lake Trasimene where they
were slain or drown. The center, including Flaminius, stood their
ground, attempting to deploy, but were eventually cut down by
Hannibal's Gauls in heavy combat. Flaminius' body was never found. The
van stood by, apparently only lightly engaged by Hannibal's blocking
force of Africans and Spaniards, but once the mist cleared and the
extent of the defeat was clear, they cut their way through the hills,
many escaping the encirclement.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Livy, Wikipedia

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

A citizen is still permitted to have any personal belief they so desire, but
they cannot attach their belief onto Nova Roma in an inimical fashion. The
Edict is about the association of Nova Roma with racist and fascist
ideology.

Let us consider a through experiment:

A Nova Roma event is being held, and a citizen is giving a workshop
(lecture) on Rome and during the course of the lecture starts to illustrate
how Nazi Germany was a modern day Rome and emphasises that it was "very
similar to Nova Roma and what our goals are...," and proceeds to show the
similarity in symbols like the fasces or equates the Schutzstaffel (SS) to a
sort of "Praetorian Guard." And glorifies the exploits of the Nazi regime
and tries to link Nazi idealogy with that of Nova Roma through common
symbols.

The above thought experiment is an example of how a person can equate Nova
Roma with fascism. This is unacceptable and we should not tolerate that.

This does not mean that an individual cannot have their own personal
beliefs.

Technically a citizen *could* have the belief that the Gods of Rome, for
example, are demons and those who believe in them are going to "hell." This
could be a belief someone could have, but spreading this sort of belief in
Nova Roma forums would be just as inimical as someone equating Nova Roma
with fascism through common symbols.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/8/06, gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano consule quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> Salve et salvete.
>
> Consul, your edict "on Fascism" states:
>
>
> "These doctrines being inimical to our Res Publica, any citizen who
> publicly, either at an official Nova Roma event or electronic forum,
> associates Nova Roma with such doctrines shall be in violation of the
> principles in which Nova Roma was founded and at the discretion of the
> Praetor warrant prosecution under our appropriate Laws."
>
> This edict violates both the letter and the spirit of the lex
> Constitutiva, our highest legal authority, which states:
>
> "[Citizens have the right to] Complete authority over their own
> personal and household rites, rituals, and beliefs, pagan or
> otherwise..." (lex Constitutiva II.B.1)
>
> and
>
> "The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the
> right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State.
> Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be
> restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent and
> clear danger to the Republic." (lex Constitutiva II.B.4)
>
> Your edict takes the first step in the direction which I have been
> warning about during this entire discussion, consul. Although
> pronounced with the best possible intentions, it is the first step to
> creating a state in which only certain "acceptable" beliefs and
> practices are allowed. This is not the direction the Republic should
> be taking.
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,
I haven't been here for very long -- a week, really -- but already I can see plenty of personalities. There's the vivacious and subdued; the assertive and the passive. There is also prejudice, distrust, spite, and vengeance. I speak, of course, of the personage of Appius Claudius Priscus, and the people who -- whether justly or unjustly -- bismirch his name. It took me a while to ascertain the specific reason for the outright enmity of this good community on this one sole person. What I found out everyone here knows -- that Priscus, having been accused of being in contact with NeoNazis and, furthermore, that he approsached the United States government with the intention of making Nova Roma a geographically political entity, is due to be put on trial by the statutes of Roman Law; that is, to be justly tried by a judge and jury, wityh the ability to plead guilty or innocent.
This story in of itself was unremarkable; Neo Nazis, I believe I am not incorrect in saying, are a well-known part of life; perhaps not a preferred one, but one that we must suffer all the same. therefore, I was disappointed, albeit unsurprised, that citizens of Nova Roma were attacking the character of Priscus without first determining his innocence. What did surprise me was the cause of the attacks upon his person. it was not because of his unsanctioned activities -- which would have been reasonable and certainly to be justified -- but rather about his relations with NeoNazi groups. In addition, as I perused the many messages -- often vindictive, even angry -- I kept on coming upon the phrase honor, how Nova Roma's reputation and honor were defiled by this person, etc., et al. Honor -- such an ambiguous, easily manipulated word. Honor -- the entity that launched countless thousands of ships more thjan dear old Helen ever could. Honor -- that being that
causes so much unnecessary strife, arguments, and futility. Honor -- that thing that we're all so very proud of, until we have to justify what exactly honor is. To put it bluntly, honor is the morals that we place upon ourselves and, to a certain extent, society. It is the justice and right in the world, the shining beacon that so very many find shelter in. Unfortunately, as I scanned the letters, I did not find in a single citizen's remarks of honor anything whatsoever akin to the truth of the word that they preached. To these people, honor was not a real, tangible thing; it was the means to an end. The old trick -- using mankind's scruples to twist arms and break bones. It's despicable. Who do these citizens think they are to try to use honor as a weapon? They do not understand it; they do not honor it. How dare they use it to justify means, and means to commit prejudicial acts, at that? It is inconscionable. In so many of these "honor" preachers, they speak
of immorality. How sadly ironic that the person they are pointing fingers at is not Priscus; it is themselves that they point to, through their sheer condescension and will to do harm.
Despite this devestating insight into the imperfections of the citizens of Nova Roma, I still held hope. "Come on," I said to myself. "Surely someone will stand against this bigotry, against this prejudice?" I was not disappointed. Enough of the good citizens defended the rights of the many, enough tried to be fairminded and stop what was turning into an us-and-them brawl. And yet, they were so few. I realized that my hope for just and fair even-handedness had to come from higher up. I looked to the censors, hoped, and was instantly crushed. The censors, who are charged with upholding justice and a little thing called "honor", had gone ahead and accused Priscus, before his trial had even begun, of being something he was yet to be proved to be. This I found to be extraordinarily immoral. High up or not, these censors had no right to persecute without the trial having even been initiated. Some may disagree with this. Some may claim that the censors,
in their high and, of course, unwaveringly just and wise councils had done what must be done. Absolute rubbish. Nowhere in old Romnan Law did the magistrates have that kind of power. Nor should they; absolute power absolutely corrupts,. This worries me immensely -- that those who are impowered for good are intentionally trying their hardest to do evil, if not ill will. Therec are older laws than those preached by the censors. There is truth. There are morals. Are these not important? Without these, there is no justice; there is only a system devoid of morality, devoid of truth, devoid of right.
The more that I see the picture, the more familiar it becomes -- and the more I find myself sickened by it. It's a brave new world out there, they say -- in Nova Roma, at least, Alduous Huxleyt's world seems to be coming to fruition: a "paradise" that does not suffer different thought, action, or being. A society that tries to control its individuals. Ah, oh honourable citizens, has it come to this? Am I to believe that because of prejudices the law, truth itself must be put on hold? One citizen complained and stated that there were quicker, more efficient measures. A coward's measures. Measures used to quiet all resistance. Injust measures. Immoral measures. Citizens of Nova Roma, this must not happen. Sir Edmund Burke once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." I'm sure that after you review the facts, you will agree that the injustice of these proceedings is supreme. But will you let it continue?
Shall evil prevail? Some may think I have gone too far, some may think that I have attacked the unattackable. No one is that important. None should have such power. If I have attacked anyone, it is justified -- I have done it to uphold honor. Yes, honor -- for I will not and, indeed, cannot let the evils that my morals stand against prevail. Cicero once said, "The more law, the less justice". He said this because of the basic inherent corruptibility of the human soul. Let's prove him wrong. I, for my part, hope that this will be so. I do not pass judgement on Priscus; nor should you. His time is coming; ours is already here. will we let evil prevail or fight it? For, ladies and gentlemen, I see a dark tied rising, eager to choke all who fall to it -- and stand in its way. Quis custodies ipsos custodiet? Who watches the watchmen? We do. We are the last barrier.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve consul et salvete omnes.

You wrote:

"A citizen is still permitted to have any personal belief they so
desire, but they cannot attach their belief onto Nova Roma in an
inimical fashion."

"Inimical" by whose definition, consul? I understand your intent but
this is still a violation of the lex Constitutiva. You cannot decide
what a citizen can say or not say, as the lex Constitutiva does not
give you that power, but instead explicitly guarantees the right to
unrestricted speech. If it comes to a question of authority, the lex
Constitutiva overrides any other legal or magisterial authority ---
even any perceived authority to "interpret" the lex Constitutiva itself.

What you *can* do is make as reasonably sure as possible that any
citizen in a position to be presenting Nova Roma to the public will
not be equating either ancient Rome or Nova Roma to Nazi Germany.

I am of course offended that you would throw in a completely
unnecessary dig at those of us who are not practitioners --- and
specifically Christians. And in point of fact the lex Constitutiva
guarantees that even someone who believes that the gods of Rome are
demons has the right to express that belief, unrestricted. A citizen
could claim that the moon is made of green cheese, or that the earth
is hollow and inhabited by tiny gnomes who keep engines running that
cause it to spin around --- it simply doesn't matter, consul. We are
free citizens of a free Republic.

You are reacting with hysteria to a set of beliefs the likes of which
have existed ever since two humans who did not look like each other
saw each other face to face --- and will exist until there are no more
humans left on the planet.

Vale et valete,

Cato

SALVE AMICE ET SALVETE !

I belive this story with Claudius Priscus is only a storm in a glass. Peoples like him, with different conceptions, extremist attitude and more, are a lot to the net. They join in organizations with a specific purpose : to find adherants. For that they need publicity. They used great words, great phrases, in a word, a lot of waste of energy in a wrong direction.Some peoples aren't able to learn something from history to not repeat mistakes.
You can say they are dangerous. Sure they are. From theory to practice is only one step. For that we must keep an eye on them.
But in this forum is not necessary. They will vanish, so long as we will treat with indiference their agitation. Our system works. Ours magistrates are on positions and they know better what is the best for Republic.
Each nova roman is first an e-mail here in Forum. Then, if he is a man of honour and his visions are the same with the organization ones, become a name. Finaly he is respected for what he doing in organization. Marcus Minucius, Quintus Suetonius have specified that in many posts.
In the Claudius Priscus case I can say that he already is blamed. It was his choice. My choice is to treat him with indiference in Forum. Sometime the things are moving on alone. Let's see who is Priscus in the next monts. I tell you from now : nothing.

The Consuls decisions it was a good one. We have a lot to work and not to vaste our time encouraging through discussions these kind of manifestations.

With the NR defend part, be sure, a lot of us are near you. Is not a sad day. Is only another day.

My post is available only for what is happened in this Forum. Outside is different. There the indiference attitude don't work.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS


M•IVL•SEVERVS <marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

I respect the decision of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Consul to dismiss the trial against Appius Claudius Priscus, but I do not share his reasons. I feel deeply disgusted to think that an individual with the fanatical and despicable ideas of Priscus, should be a citizen of Nova Roma, and should keep on spreading those beliefs with entire impunity. For me, this is one especially sad day. I believe in Nova Roma and I will dedicate my efforts to work for her and to defend her.

Valete optime,

M•IVL•SEVERVS

PROPRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
ROGATOR
INTERPRETER
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Gnaeus Salvius Astur wrote:

>
> After discussing the issue with several magistrates, and after having
> been assured that it is in the best interest of Nova Roma that this
> trial does not continue, I hereby rescind the petitio actionis I
> presented against Ap. Claudius Priscus.

Best interests?

As a result of your actions here - vetoing our first attempt to purge
ourselves of this menace, then blocking our only alternative - Nova Roma
is now *knowingly and willingly* associating itself with a person known to
the US government as a neo-Nazi, racial separatist, anti-feminist
and anti-tax crackpot.

Thank you for adding a page to our FBI file.

A very few magistrates had the courage to do the right thing, but we
were outgunned, and the honour of the Republic has suffered as a
result.

M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus C. Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Hysteria? No. Civil discussion, yes.

Might I remind you of our list guidelines of acceptable behavior:

"Inappropriate behavior includes: The use of profane language;
misrepresentation of the truth for the purpose of making another
person look foolish; name-calling; criticizing a poster's personal
character as opposed to criticizing his ideas; making derogatory,
belittling, subjective statements about the Gods and Goddesses of
Rome or belittling deities of other religions (however, quoting from
a myth or historical material is allowed.)"

Your interpretation of our laws is, lets just accept this, different from
mine. I have been criticised this week by a number of citizens, and that is
ok. They have their right to do so. And please do not take my example about
"hell and demons" as attack against you or against Christians in Nova Roma
-- all of which I have found to be very respectful and honorable people.

Would it be acceptable, for example, for a fundamentalist (of any sort) to
come onto our electronic forums, or live venues, and preach that we were
going to hell because as an organization we are committed to the restoration
of the Religio Romana? Would a "fire and brimstone" speech be acceptable in
a Nova Roma forum (live or electronic)? I don't suspect it would. And that
was the point I was trying to make. However, a fundamentalist Christian,
Muslim, etc.. *could* join Nova Roma and discuss Rome and be respectful
while still holding these beliefs we simply do not need, nor tolerate per
our guidelines, any sort of "fire and brimstone" antics.

No hysterics. My point was not to somehow estrange Christian and Religio
relations.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/8/06, gaiusequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibusque S.P.D.
>



> I am of course offended that you would throw in a completely unnecessary
> dig at those of us who are not practitioners --- and specifically
> Christians. And in point of fact the lex Constitutiva guarantees that even
> someone who believes that the gods of Rome are demons has the right to
> express that belief, unrestricted. A citizen could claim that the moon is
> made of green cheese, or that the earth is hollow and inhabited by tiny
> gnomes who keep engines running that cause it to spin around --- it simply
> doesn't matter, consul. We are free citizens of a free Republic.
> You are reacting with hysteria to a set of beliefs the likes of which have
> existed ever since two humans who did not look like each other saw each
> other face to face --- and will exist until there are no more humans left on
> the planet.
>
> Vale et valete,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

Salve consul.

I apologize if I went a little overboard there with the "hysteria"
thing; it is just that it is very easy to go from "we should try to
uphold a level of civility" to "you cannot say 'X' or you will be
punished" --- and it seems as though there are some of us who are
willing to move fairly rapidly along those lines.

Vale bene,

Cato

Salve and Good Dreaming,

While I am the equivalent of a foreign observer to the doings of your nation, I must say that Iulius Sabinus spoke well and wisely. it is not a sad day, indeed. So long as you watch and keep vigilant against such dangers.
There was a time when the micronational community faced just such a situation. A micronation known as the Celestial Empire changed its skin, as it were, and became known as the Aryan National Socialist Empire(http://ansempire.net I believe), showing their support and views to be of a neo-Nazi nature. The uproar was much the same as here. Some decided to create a joint pact against such a nation. Others, like my nation, decided to watch and wait, and only act for such a time as when the ANSE would decide to act upon their views. We still watch. We still wait. We are ever ready to act. The Domain moreso than some.
I salute you, Iulius. It was a pleasure to see you put things into proper perspective. Wisely said, again.
To all of you, I wish you Good Dreaming and Blessed Be to you and yours, from myself and my people.
And to the litigant in question, the Domain and Realms will be watching you as well. Have a care.

Dream Well,
-ShadowDarkFyre the LordVengeance, ur-Lord
The Domain and Realms


/sdf

iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
SALVE AMICE ET SALVETE !

I belive this story with Claudius Priscus is only a storm in a glass. Peoples like him, with different conceptions, extremist attitude and more, are a lot to the net. They join in organizations with a specific purpose : to find adherants. For that they need publicity. They used great words, great phrases, in a word, a lot of waste of energy in a wrong direction.Some peoples aren't able to learn something from history to not repeat mistakes.
You can say they are dangerous. Sure they are. From theory to practice is only one step. For that we must keep an eye on them.
But in this forum is not necessary. They will vanish, so long as we will treat with indiference their agitation. Our system works. Ours magistrates are on positions and they know better what is the best for Republic.
Each nova roman is first an e-mail here in Forum. Then, if he is a man of honour and his visions are the same with the organization ones, become a name. Finaly he is respected for what he doing in organization. Marcus Minucius, Quintus Suetonius have specified that in many posts.
In the Claudius Priscus case I can say that he already is blamed. It was his choice. My choice is to treat him with indiference in Forum. Sometime the things are moving on alone. Let's see who is Priscus in the next monts. I tell you from now : nothing.

The Consuls decisions it was a good one. We have a lot to work and not to vaste our time encouraging through discussions these kind of manifestations.

With the NR defend part, be sure, a lot of us are near you. Is not a sad day. Is only another day.

My post is available only for what is happened in this Forum. Outside is different. There the indiference attitude don't work.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS


M•IVL•SEVERVS <marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

I respect the decision of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Consul to dismiss the trial against Appius Claudius Priscus, but I do not share his reasons. I feel deeply disgusted to think that an individual with the fanatical and despicable ideas of Priscus, should be a citizen of Nova Roma, and should keep on spreading those beliefs with entire impunity. For me, this is one especially sad day. I believe in Nova Roma and I will dedicate my efforts to work for her and to defend her.

Valete optime,

M•IVL•SEVERVS

PROPRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
ROGATOR
INTERPRETER
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•GEM
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

--
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Cn. Cornelius Lentulus quaestor D. Valerio Thomae Bruno sal.:

Wellcome to Nova Roma! You have arrived in the midst of a scandalous situation, as you can see, but when this issue will have passed off, you'll see the magnificent face of our international community.

Sis prospera valetudine in Nova Roma!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Slavete omnes,

I must head to the field later today for a week or so but as usual I
shall be able to keep in touch with high speed net. I'll be down later
today and part of tomorrow though.

For the record I have to say that I am also responsible for the
rescindo. All involved discussed it and Consul Modianus has already
well summarized the valid reasons for coming to this decision. I fully
support his decision on this matter.

In my personal opinion I always wish that things would go smoothly and
come to conclusions without a hitch. I do not like interfering in the
legal system as well as some others before us just for a lark or
mental gymnatics. Citizens, not to mention magistrates themselves come
to us asking for intersessio on various matters (not us to them) and
their concerns and issues must be dealt with, discussed and resolved
even if we personally dislike the issues and perfer to let the
sleeping dog lie or not disturb a big hornet nest.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

Tribunus Plebis

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Gnaeus Salvius Astur wrote:
> >
> > After discussing the issue with several magistrates, and after
having
> > been assured that it is in the best interest of Nova Roma that this
> > trial does not continue, I hereby rescind the petitio actionis I
> > presented against Ap. Claudius Priscus.
>
>

SALVE CENSOR M. OCTAVI GERMANICE!

Thank you for your correct words and for your courage! This will be my last post on this list. It is a sad day.
IGNAVA LEX, SED LEX.

Vale bene.
Gaius Cassius Piso


Matt Hucke <hucke@...> escreveu:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Gnaeus Salvius Astur wrote:
>
> After discussing the issue with several magistrates, and after having
> been assured that it is in the best interest of Nova Roma that this
> trial does not continue, I hereby rescind the petitio actionis I
> presented against Ap. Claudius Priscus.

Best interests?

As a result of your actions here - vetoing our first attempt to purge
ourselves of this menace, then blocking our only alternative - Nova Roma
is now *knowingly and willingly* associating itself with a person known to
the US government as a neo-Nazi, racial separatist, anti-feminist
and anti-tax crackpot.

Thank you for adding a page to our FBI file.

A very few magistrates had the courage to do the right thing, but we
were outgunned, and the honour of the Republic has suffered as a
result.

M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese




__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/8/2006 5:24:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tau.athanasios@... writes:
A Nova Roma event is being held, and a citizen is giving a workshop
(lecture) on Rome and during the course of the lecture starts to illustrate
how Nazi Germany was a modern day Rome and emphasises that it was "very
similar to Nova Roma and what our goals are...," and proceeds to show the
similarity in symbols like the fasces or equates the Schutzstaffel (SS) to a
sort of "Praetorian Guard." And glorifies the exploits of the Nazi regime
and tries to link Nazi idealogy with that of Nova Roma through common
symbols.
Consul,
<<An open comment to the Consul>>
You are reaching here and you know it. Equitius Cato is right, and you are
wrong.

To use your example against you, what if a Consul of Nova Roma gave a
demonstration and said that NR should be modernized, the laws changed to reflect the
21st century following
English common law et al. Why that Consul would just be as guilty as that
Nazi lecturer
would be wouldn't he? Most white supremacists follow Germany since they were
able to accomplish their goal under a dictator. The fact that the 1000 year
Empire broke up after Germany was defeated, matters little to them, it is the
ideal. It has nothing to do with the Roman symbol of curial authority.

Until Nova Roma gets that dictator, and we become white supremacists I
wouldn't worry.
But with you cherry picking beliefs as being undesirable, and issuing edicts
against them, we are well on our way aren't we?

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
In Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My name is Tiberius Octavius Pulvillus and I recieved your email I will be at the library computer till 4;30 today I will try to get back on tommarow some time between 8;oo am and 4;30 pm.

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote: F. Galerius Aurelianus Appio Claudio Prisco Salve.

I have tried to reach you via your yahoo address but have been unsuccessful.
I have some questions for you concerning some of the points that have been
raised about you. I would appreciate it if you would email me at
_padruigtheuncle@..._ (mailto:padruigtheuncle@...) . This is not an official
request in any of my capacities in Nova Roma and is purely private. I hope to
be hearing from you.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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--- Salve Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Praetor et Salvete Omnes!


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Galerius Paulinus"
<spqr753@...> wrote: (in discussion of the Senatus Consultum Ultimum
of Cicero and its legal ramifications)

(snippage)

>
>
>
> "Gaius Julius Caesar and others argued that the consultum could

not

> override the basic laws of the Roman state, that it meant merely
> that the Consuls should do their utmost within the framework of

the

> Roman Constitution to resolve the emergency

Pompeia: And there are those who maintain that Iulius Caesar would
had done well to practise what he preached :>)



The matter of law would

> never be settled, although Cicero would be exiled in 58 because of
> the executions (the exile was ordered by one of his political
> enemies, Publius Clodius Pulcher, and therefore should probably

not

> be seen as a completely valid response)."

Pompeia: Yes. Publius Clodius.... Which leads me in part to my
comment below.....

>
>
> The use of the Senatus consultum ultimum by the last generation of
> the Roman Republic was a major reason for it being the last
> generation of the Roman Republic.

Pompeia: Uh huh. Some scholars will sail in that boat. Others
will say such, but equally speculate that the inappropriate and/or
partisan use of the Tribune veto carte blanc may have influenced the
unfortunate turn of events of the late republic. Google around a
bit, or perhaps you have, in your capacity as Tribune in 2004. But
one doesn't really have to go that far back in history to find some
rather blistering examples of this, really.

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Valete
Pompeia

>

Salve Cato et salvete Omnes,

I am sure I need not say that in our system we choose people for
certain offices in which they have the duty sometimes to act on our
behalf. Of course they must exercise their judgement in doing so.

So Citizens, let this be a reminder of the importance of the election
process. Vote wisely that we have wise leaders.

Optime valete

M. Lucr. Agricola



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiusequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.
>
> Salve consul.
>
> I apologize if I went a little overboard there with the "hysteria"
> thing; it is just that it is very easy to go from "we should try to
> uphold a level of civility" to "you cannot say 'X' or you will be
> punished" --- and it seems as though there are some of us who are
> willing to move fairly rapidly along those lines.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>

Salve Senator,

Respectfully, I disagree and I think you missed a small point. The
Consul's edict says "...publicly... associates Nova Roma with such
doctrines..."

So he is not speaking about *holding* any belief, he is speaking about
an *act*, and not an act in private correspondence but in public.

The Consul's edict speaks to the point of a citizen publicly *acting*
to associate Nova Roma with racism and all the other nasty things
mentioned.


In my opinion this does no more than affirm that the leadership of the
Res Publica will take action against these sort of slanderous
associations. I am glad that they have taken note of this problem and
I am furhter glad that the edict takes aim at an act (associating Nova
Roma with things we have officially repudiated) and not the beliefs.

Senator, I hope you will give these points your consideration, and
having done so I hope you will lend your support to the Consul in this
matter of defending the public image and reputation of the Res Publica.


Optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/8/2006 5:24:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> tau.athanasios@... writes:
> A Nova Roma event is being held, and a citizen is giving a workshop
> (lecture) on Rome and during the course of the lecture starts to
illustrate
> how Nazi Germany was a modern day Rome and emphasises that it was "very
> similar to Nova Roma and what our goals are...," and proceeds to
show the
> similarity in symbols like the fasces or equates the Schutzstaffel
(SS) to a
> sort of "Praetorian Guard." And glorifies the exploits of the Nazi
regime
> and tries to link Nazi idealogy with that of Nova Roma through common
> symbols.
> Consul,
> <<An open comment to the Consul>>
> You are reaching here and you know it. Equitius Cato is right, and
you are
> wrong.
>
> To use your example against you, what if a Consul of Nova Roma gave a
> demonstration and said that NR should be modernized, the laws
changed to reflect the
> 21st century following
> English common law et al. Why that Consul would just be as guilty
as that
> Nazi lecturer
> would be wouldn't he? Most white supremacists follow Germany since
they were
> able to accomplish their goal under a dictator. The fact that the
1000 year
> Empire broke up after Germany was defeated, matters little to them,
it is the
> ideal. It has nothing to do with the Roman symbol of curial authority.
>
> Until Nova Roma gets that dictator, and we become white supremacists I
> wouldn't worry.
> But with you cherry picking beliefs as being undesirable, and
issuing edicts
> against them, we are well on our way aren't we?
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> In Nova Roma
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete omnes;
I know a lot of us have Skype which makes it easy to talk to all our
friends who are not so far away now. But Skype just recently has a
promotion for the U.S & Canada - you can make free calls from Skype to
regular telphones until December 2006.
I did not buy any Skype Out minutes and placed calls to regular
phone numbers for $0 U.S or Canadian:)Sorry European, Mexican & South
American cives, it is unfair...
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

Sir,

About the scandal you've mentioned, I could only aprehend, so far, that it
has something to do with national-socialist manifestations whithin Nova
Roma, but I'll be soon looking for related messafes in the archives of our
mailgroup. In the meanwhile, I'd be glad if you could make me a short report
about the case.

Thank you for the wellcoming answer, by the way. ;-)

Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
Brasilia Provincia

Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
Ventura pax decusque superatum.
- Hymnus Brasiliensis


_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
Sent: quinta-feira, 8 de junho de 2006 13:03
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus quaestor D. Valerio Thomae Bruno sal.:

Wellcome to Nova Roma! You have arrived in the midst of a scandalous
situation, as you can see, but when this issue will have passed off, you'll
see the magnificent face of our international community.

Sis prospera valetudine in Nova Roma!



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo
<http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com>
com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Sir,
>
> About the scandal you've mentioned, I could only aprehend, so far, that it
> has something to do with national-socialist manifestations whithin Nova
> Roma, but I'll be soon looking for related messafes in the archives of our
> mailgroup. In the meanwhile, I'd be glad if you could make me a short report
> about the case.
>
> ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
> accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in that
> capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening statements
> on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call this
> National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these accusations had
> been proven.
>
> Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one of
> the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe to the
> NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from magistrates
> and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
> everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and reasoned
> tone while refraining from attacking others.
>
> Thank you for the wellcoming answer, by the way. ;-)
>
> ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
> office about your name...
>
> Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
> Brasilia Provincia
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
> - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>
> ATS: This is quite pretty...
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> Sent: quinta-feira, 8 de junho de 2006 13:03
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus quaestor D. Valerio Thomae Bruno sal.:
>
> Wellcome to Nova Roma! You have arrived in the midst of a scandalous
> situation, as you can see, but when this issue will have passed off, you'll
> see the magnificent face of our international community.
>
> Sis prospera valetudine in Nova Roma!
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R
> -------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
> Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SOTHEBY'S REUNITES ANCIENT ROMAN FIGURE OF APHRODITE WITH HER HEAD
MICHAEL C. CARLOS MUSEUM AT EMORY UNIVERSITY PURCHASES FIGURE FOR
$968,000 AND ACQUIRES HEAD PRIVATELY SOTHEBY'S SCHOLARSHIP LEADS TO
EXTRAORDINARY DISCOVERY

New York, NY - June 6, 2006 – Today at Sotheby's, following an
extraordinary achievement in scholarship, an ancient Roman Figure of
Aphrodite was reunited with her Head after the two elements had been
separated for at least 50 years. The figure was purchased in today's
auction of Antiquities for $968,000 by the Michael C. Carlos Museum
at Emory University. Immediately following the fall of the hammer,
the Museum also purchased the head by private sale. This remarkable
achievement was made possible by extensive research done by Sotheby's
Antiquities experts. Today's auction totalled $4,584,172, above a
high estimate of $4.1 million.

Richard M. Keresey, Worldwide Director of Sotheby's Antiquities
Department commented, "This is a great moment for the world of
Antiquities and one we will always remember. Because of my colleague
Florent Heintz's research skills astonishing visual memory, Aphrodite
has regained not only her head, but also her history. We are
particularly thrilled that this outstanding piece, in her entirety,
will be on view to the public at such a wonderful institution."
Jasper Gaunt, Curator of Greek and Roman Art at the Michael C. Carlos
Museum at Emory University, said, "This is an incredibly exciting
moment for our institution. We are actively building a collection of
Ancient Art of peerless quality and this piece is without question
the finest Aphrodite in the United States. The opportunity to own a
piece of this importance in its entirety was irresistible and she
will assume a position of prominence in our collection. We are
grateful that Sotheby's was able to assist in consummating a private
sale of the figure's head."

Nearly three months ago, Mrs. Lawrence Copley Thaw, Sr. of New York,
consigned a Marble Figure of Aphrodite, Roman Imperial, dating to
circa late 1st century/early 2nd Century A.D., to Sotheby's June 2006
sale of Antiquities. As is not uncommon with Antiquities, the figure
was missing elements, in this case, her head and one arm. After in-
depth research, Sotheby's experts discovered an engraving of the
complete figure, published in 1836 when it was part of a private
collection in Paris. The rendering of the head in the engraving
immediately struck Mr. Heintz as familiar; he remembered that
Sotheby's had sold a similar head on December 11, 2002 (lot 12),
possibly the one belonging to Mrs. Thaw's headless figure.

Sotheby's then contacted the private collector from Houston, Texas
who had purchased the head in 2002; and she graciously offered to
bring it to New York to see if Mr. Heintz's theory proved correct.
When the head arrived in New York, Mr. Keresey and Mr. Heintz
realized that, based on the dimensions of the neck, grain of the
marble, weathering of both pieces, style of carving, tilt and turn of
the head, combined with the existence of the engraving, the head did
in fact belong with the body. The owner of the head then agreed to
make the piece available for private sale exclusively to the
successful purchaser of the body in today's auction.
http://www.sothebys.com

For more information on the Michael C. Carlos Museum, please go to
http://www.carlos.emory.edu/


http://www.news-antique.com/?id=781521&keys=head-aphrodite-sothebys-
carlos-museum

Salvete:

I just downloaded and installed Skype on my computer. My user ID is:
modianus

Anyone interested in talking send me an e-mail and we can establish a time
when it would be good to talk. I want everyone to know that they can easily
be reached.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 6/8/06, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes;
> I know a lot of us have Skype which makes it easy to talk to all our
> friends who are not so far away now. But Skype just recently has a
> promotion for the U.S & Canada - you can make free calls from Skype to
> regular telphones until December 2006.
> I did not buy any Skype Out minutes and placed calls to regular
> phone numbers for $0 U.S or Canadian:)Sorry European, Mexican & South
> American cives, it is unfair...
> bene vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Here is a petition in favour of Classicis teaching in Portugal. At
the website mentioned in the message there's further information and
you can read the petition.

Valete,


Begin forwarded message:

> A PETITION IN FAVOR OF CLASSICS IN PORTUGAL
>
> Dear Colleagues and Friends
>
> Classics in Portugal are by now suffering their greatest attack in
> many
> years. Help us to fight against this cultural narrowness of our
> politics, by signing and sending to others, mainly to the members of
> FIEC, the Petition in Favor of Classical Languages en Portugal:
>
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/classici/petition.html
>
> Thanking you all in advance,
>
> Francisco de Oliveira, Full Professor of Classics and President of
> Euroclassica
>
> NOTA BENE:
> If you want to hear later from us and get a feedback on the outcome of
> this petition, when signing it, please check the box ³Available to
> Petition Author² regarding your email address options.
>
> Si vous désirez recevoir plus tard un message avec l¹information
> sur les
> résultats de cette petition sélectionnez cochez s.v.p. la case
> ³Available to Petition Author² dans le panneau d¹affichage des options
> concernant l¹adresse de votre courier électronique.
>
> Se desejar receber posteriormente da parte dos promotores alguma
> informação acerca dos resultados da petição, por favor, ao entrar na
> página de subscrição, seleccione a opção ³Available to Petition
> Author²
> no item respeitante ao seu endereço de correio electrónico.

Caius Curius Saturninus

Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

"All we need is lightning
With power and might
Striking down the prophets of false
As the moon is rising
Give us the sign
Now let us rise up in awe"

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete:

Classics are an important academic discipline. I signed the petition, and
it only took a minute or two.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/9/06, Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Here is a petition in favour of Classicis teaching in Portugal. At
> the website mentioned in the message there's further information and
> you can read the petition.
>
> Valete,
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > A PETITION IN FAVOR OF CLASSICS IN PORTUGAL
> >
> > Dear Colleagues and Friends
> >
> > Classics in Portugal are by now suffering their greatest attack in
> > many
> > years. Help us to fight against this cultural narrowness of our
> > politics, by signing and sending to others, mainly to the members of
> > FIEC, the Petition in Favor of Classical Languages en Portugal:
> >
> > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/classici/petition.html
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem V Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"Vesta, favour me! I'll open my lips now in your service,
If I'm indeed allowed to attend your sacred rites.
I was rapt in prayer: I felt the heavenly deity,
And the happy earth shone with radiant light.
Not that I saw you, goddess (away with poets' lies!)
Nor were you to be looked on by any man:
But I knew what I'd not known, and the errors
I'd held to were corrected without instruction.
They say Rome had celebrated the Parilia forty times,
When the goddess, the Guardian of the Flame, was received
In her shrine, the work of Numa, that peace-loving king,
(None more god-fearing was ever born in Sabine lands.)
The roofs you see of bronze were roofs of straw then,
And its walls were made of wickerwork.
This meagre spot that supports the Hall of Vesta
Was then the mighty palace of unshorn Numa.
Yet the form of the temple, that remains, they say,
Is as before, and is shaped so for good reason.
Vesta's identified with Earth: in them both's unsleeping fire:
Earth and the hearth are both symbols of home.
The Earth's a ball not resting on any support,
It's great weight hangs in the ether around it.
Its own revolutions keep its orb balanced,
It has no sharp angles to press on anything,
And it's placed in the midst of the heavens,
And isn't nearer or further from any side,
For if it weren't convex, it would be nearer somewhere,
And the universe wouldn't have Earth's weight at its centre.
There's a globe suspended, enclosed by Syracusan art,
That's a small replica of the vast heavens,
And the Earth's equidistant from top and bottom.
Which is achieved by its spherical shape.
The form of this temple's the same: there's no angle
Projecting from it: a rotunda saves it from the rain.
You ask why the goddess is served by virgins?
I'll reveal the true reason for that as well.
They say that Juno and Ceres were born of Ops
By Saturn's seed, Vesta was the third daughter:
The others married, both bore children they say,
The third was always unable to tolerate men.
What wonder if a virgin delights in virgin servants,
And only allows chaste hands to touch her sacred relics?
Realize that Vesta is nothing but living flame,
And you'll see that no bodies are born from her.
She's truly a virgin, who neither accepts seed
Nor yields it, and she loves virgin companions.
I foolishly thought for ages that there were statues
Of Vesta, later I learnt there were none beneath her dome:
An undying fire is concealed with the shrine,
But there's no image of Vesta or of fire.
The earth's supported by its energy: Vesta's so called from `depending
On energy' (vi stando), and that could be the reason for her Greek
ame. But the hearth (focus) is named from its fire that warms (fovet)
all things:
Formerly it stood in the most important room.
I think the vestibule was so called from Vesta too:
In praying we address Vesta first, who holds first place.
It was once the custom to sit on long benches by the fire,
And believe the gods were present at the meal:
Even now in sacrificing to ancient Vacuna,
They sit and stand in front of her altar hearths.
Something of ancient custom has passed to us:
A clean dish contains the food offered to Vesta.
See, loaves are hung from garlanded mules,
And flowery wreaths veil the rough millstones.
Once farmers only used to parch wheat in their ovens,
(And the goddess of ovens has her sacred rites):
The hearth baked the bread, set under the embers,
On a broken tile placed there on the heated floor.
So the baker honours the hearth, and the lady of hearths,
And the she-ass that turns the pumice millstones.
Red-faced Priapus shall I tell of your shame or pass by?
It's a brief tale but it's a merry one.
Cybele, whose head is crowned with towers,
Called the eternal gods to her feast.
She invited the satyrs too, and those rural divinities,
The nymphs, and Silenus came, though no one asked him.
It's forbidden, and would take too long, to describe the banquet
Of the gods: the whole night was spent drinking deep.
Some wandered aimlessly in Ida's shadowy vales,
Some lay, and stretched their limbs, on the soft grass.
Some played, some slept, others linked arms
And beat swift feet threefold on the grassy earth.
Vesta lay carelessly, enjoying a peaceful rest,
Her head reclining, resting on the turf.
But the red-faced keeper of gardens chased the nymphs
And goddesses, and his roving feet turned to and fro.
He saw Vesta too: it's doubtful whether he thought her
A nymph, or knew her as Vesta: he himself denied he knew.
He had wanton hopes, and tried to approach her in secret,
And walked on tiptoe, with a pounding heart.
Old Silenus had chanced to leave the mule
He rode by the banks of a flowing stream.
The god of the long Hellespont was about to start,
When the mule let out an untimely bray.
Frightened by the raucous noise, the goddess leapt up:
The whole troop gathered, and Priapus fled through their hands.
The people of Lampsacus sacrifice this animal to him, singing:
`Rightly we give the innards of the witness to the flames.'
Goddess, you deck the creature with necklaces of loaves,
In remembrance: work ceases: the empty mills fall silent.
I'll explain the meaning of an altar of Jove the Baker
That stands on the Thunderer's citadel, more famous
For name than worth. The Capitol was surrounded
By fierce Gauls: the siege had already caused a famine.
Summoning the gods to his royal throne,
Jupiter said to Mars: `Begin!' and he quickly replied:
`My people's plight is surely unknown,
A grief that needs a voice of heartfelt complaint.
But if I'm to tell a sad and shameful tale in brief,
Rome lies under the feet of an Alpine enemy.
Jupiter, is this the Rome that was promised power
Over the world! Rome, the mistress of the earth?
She'd crushed the neighbouring cities, and the Etruscans:
Hope was rampant: now she's driven from her home.
We've seen old men, dressed in embroidered robes
Of triumph, murdered in their bronze-clad halls:
We've seen Ilian Vesta's sacred pledges hurried
From their place: some clearly think of the gods.
But if they look back at the citadel you hold,
And see so many of your homes under siege,
They'll think worship of the gods is vain,
And incense from a fearful hand thrown away.
If only they'd an open field of battle! Let them arm,
And if they can't be victorious, let them die.
Now without food, and dreading a cowardly death,
They're penned on their hill, pressed by a barbarous mob.'
Then Venus, and Vesta, and glorious Quirinus with auger's staff
And striped gown, pleaded on behalf of their Latium.
Jupiter replied: `There's a common concern for those walls.
And the Gauls will be defeated and receive punishment.
But you, Vesta, mustn't leave your place, and see to it
That the bread that's lacking be considered plentiful.
Let whatever grain is left be ground in a hollow mill,
Kneaded by hand, and then baked in a hot oven.'
He gave his orders, and Saturn's virgin daughter
Obeyed his command, as the hour reached midnight.
Now sleep had overcome the weary leaders: Jupiter
Rebuked them, and spoke his wishes from holy lips:
`Rise, and from the heights of the citadel, throw down
Among the enemy, the last thing you'd wish to yield!'
They shook off sleep, and troubled by the strange command,
Asked themselves what they must yield, unwillingly.
It seemed it must be bread: They threw down the gifts
Of Ceres, clattering on the enemy helms and shields.
The expectation that they could be starved out vanished.
The foe was repulsed, and a bright altar raised to Jove the Baker.
On the festival of Vesta, I happened to be returning
By the recent path that joins the New Way to the Forum.
There I saw a lady descending barefoot:
Astonished, I was silent and stopped short.
An old woman from the neighbourhood saw me: and telling
Me to sit, spoke to me in a quavering voice, shaking her head:
`Here, where the forums are now, was marshy swamp:
A ditch was wet with the overflow from the river.
That lake of Curtius, that supports the altars un-wet,
Is solid enough now, but was a pool of water once.
Where processions file through the Velabrum to the Circus,
There was nothing but willow and hollow reeds:
Often some guest returning over suburban waters,
Sang out, and hurled drunken words at the boatmen.
That god, Vertumnus, whose name fits many forms,
Wasn't yet so-called from damning back the river (averso amne).
Here too was a thicket of bulrushes and reeds,
And a marsh un-trodden by booted feet.
The pools are gone, and the river keeps its banks,
And the ground's dry now: but the custom remains.'
So she explained it. I said: `Farewell, good dame!
May whatever of life remains to you be sweet.'
I'd already heard the rest of the tale in boyhood,
But I won't pass over it in silence on that account.
Ilus, scion of Dardanus, had founded a new city
(Ilus was still rich, holding the wealth of Asia)
A sky-born image of armed Minerva was said
To have fallen on the hillside near to Troy.
(I was anxious to see it: I saw the temple and the site,
That's all that's left there: Rome has the Palladium.)
Apollo Smintheus was consulted, and gave this answer
From truthful lips, in the darkness of his shadowy grove:
`Preserve the heavenly goddess, and preserve
The City: with her goes the capital of empire.'" - Ovid, Fasti VI

Today is the celebration of the Vestalia, in honor of the goddes
Vesta. Interestingly enough, Romans did not portray Vesta, at her
altar, in statuary. The flame of the hearth, instead, symbolized her
presence. They did portray both Vesta and Vestals elsewhere (e.g., a
row of statues outside the House of the Vestals). At home, the Roman
family gathered once a day to offer Vesta a sacrifice. The Temple of
Vesta was located in a small round building in the Forum (which thus
served as the hearth of the Roman community). Technically speaking ,
the building was not a "temple," but a "house." Romans believed the
fire should never go out.

A priestess-hood of specially chosen women (all virgins) were devoted
to Vesta and supervised her worship (and the flame of her hearth).
Romans called these women the Vestal Virgins. It seems that this group
was created to fulfill the religious duties that, according to
Plutarch's life of Numa, the daughters of Roman kings had performed
under the monarchy. If the Vestal Virgins let the fire go out, they
had to rekindle it by rubbing twigs together. Then they were whipped
by the Pontifex Maximus, for their failure to attend the hearth.

For the Vestalia, the Vestals made mola salsa (holy cake). To do this
they walked to a sacred spring to fetch water. They carried the water
in special jugs with a base designed to tip the jug over if it was set
down. The water for the mola salsa could never come in contact with
the earth. The salt used to make the was also prepared in a ritual
fashion. Brine was pounded then baked in a jar until it formed a rock
so hard that the Vestals had to use an iron saw to cut it.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Wikipedia

gaiusequitiuscato wrote:
<This edict violates both the letter and the spirit of the lex
Constitutiva, our highest legal authority (omissis)
Your edict takes the first step in the direction which I have been
warning about during this entire discussion, consul. Although
pronounced with the best possible intentions, it is the first step to
creating a state in which only certain "acceptable" beliefs and
practices are allowed. This is not the direction the Republic should
be taking.Vale et valete,
Cato>
and
<A citizen
could claim that the moon is made of green cheese, or that the earth
is hollow and inhabited by tiny gnomes who keep engines running that
cause it to spin around --- it simply doesn't matter, consul. We are
free citizens of a free Republic.>
Great! I agree. Next time there will be edicta on socialism, on fashion, on political correct. So, NR should set her antifascist, antiracist, antisatanic, antisomething nature. Please, stop this kind of edicta and remember our priorities: why should we fight against other neo-romans just because they like Mussolini or heavy metal or something else that most of us don't like? Was fascism against Gods? Was fascism against Roma? Anyway, Christians were and are against our Gods, but - if they want to stay in our micronation - why should we blame them? Please, stop these dispotic edicta. There were no Catacumbae and religion or politic persecutions during the Republic.

"Matt Hucke" hucke@... wrote:
<As a result of your actions here - vetoing our first attempt to purge
ourselves of this menace, then blocking our only alternative - Nova Roma
is now *knowingly and willingly* associating itself with a person known to
the US government as a neo-Nazi, racial separatist, anti-feminist
and anti-tax crackpot.
A very few magistrates had the courage to do the right thing, but we
were outgunned, and the honour of the Republic has suffered as a
result.
M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.>
Respect all religions and political views doesn't mean we share them. Capitis deminutio could be a consequence only of a serious crime against NR. You are a censor and shouldn't offend other magistrates and our Republic, just because our law is more tolerant and civil than you, Germanicus.
"Dan Yano" catothecensor2005@...
wrote:
<The censors, who are charged with upholding justice and a little thing called "honor", had gone ahead and accused Priscus, before his trial had even begun, of being something he was yet to be proved to be. This I found to be extraordinarily immoral. High up or not, these censors had no right to persecute without the trial having even been initiated. Some may disagree with this. Some may claim that the censors,
in their high and, of course, unwaveringly just and wise councils had done what must be done. Absolute rubbish. Nowhere in old Romnan Law did the magistrates have that kind of power. Nor should they; absolute power absolutely corrupts,. This worries me immensely>

Vale
ACC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Matt Hucke" hucke@...
wrote:
<And this one is a German by descent, and will not perpetuate,
tolerate, or sanction the evil perpetrated by my people in the
past. Octavius.>
I've never heard that Germans perpetrated any evil or knew and approve it. Please do not offend all Germans!

"pompeia_minucia_tiberia" pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...
wrote:
<Nobody is going to receive a lethal injection or stand before a
firing squad as a result of a Senatus Consutum Ultimum. They would
just be escorted to the door that says "EXIT"
Pompeia>
If you consider it not serious, please use that door.

QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
<Censors (omissis) Observers on this list would
have to conclude that your action was for your own appeasement and not the
State's.>

"gaiusequitiuscato" mlcinnyc@...
wrote:
<As a citizen of the United States, Claudius Priscus retains the right
to freedom of speech guaranteed by the Constitution of that country.
Our lex Constitutiva upholds that right. (omissis)>
If you are right (and I think you are) there is an abuse and Priscus is a victim. And we are too,
because (Gnaeus Iulius Caesar) <when the rights
of one are suspended then the rights of all are at risk, (omissis)and expulsion of a citizen is a matter that should concern the whole
community in order to prevent abuse by magistrates>
He talks about future abuse, but forget that this trial is an abuse and that the Nota is an abuse too, because ideas and proposals cannot offend: if there is someone who could be offended why do those magistrates told them those ideas and proposals? why do we all have to read about those things that are not about ancient and nova Roma? Isn't there a kind of prosecution to stop these abuses? this trial that is not extrema ratio?
"Maior" rory12001@... rory12001
wrote:
<-Salvete omnes:
you see I have given Priscus the cognomen "Ignotus" - meaning
unknown, low-born, ignorant. Please refer to him by this name so he
will not see his Nova Roman name glorified on this list. Frankly
laughter and derision is what he deserves.
If Ignotus is reallly a cowardly soul, I'd like to hear him
spout his racist beliefs with me in the middle of Tel Aviv or
Durham, NC:)
bene valete in Mente!
Marca Hortensia Maior>
Please, respect him to respect us. He is undergoing a trial for the same reason of so many "pagan" in the past: his ideas are not common and someone hates him. NR magistrates are creating a victim and your laughter and derision make me think of Giordano Bruno and other heros of the past. Please, censores, do something against Marca Hortensia Maior! She wants us to do to Priscus what someone did to Jews during IIWW, what a shame!
Valete!
ACC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

--- plethora of discourse and diatribe deleted ---

You know, from an outside hypothetical view, this whole "trial" thing
might appear to be a very successful attempt at factionalization and
ad hoc gerrymandering of the people to cut out portions of the herd
for the wolves' own purposes.

E.g.

A recipe for chaos:

1) Walk into a group
2) Spout some questionable and provocative ideas
3) Ferment/foment
4) Sit back and watch the group tear itself apart
5) Take on adherents
6) Pick up stragglers
7) Excise the unconvertables

And in a few months, presto! A takeover, complete with a flaky crust
and tender crumb. Cool, frost, and serve with your favorite beverage.

*sigh*
Valete
Q. Valerius Callidus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Guzzo" <claudio.guzzo@...>
wrote:

>

[snip]

> Please, respect him to respect us. He is undergoing a trial for the

same reason of so many "pagan" in the past: his ideas are not common
and someone hates him.

[snip]

> Valete!
> ACC
>

Salve!

Sir, respectfully, you are factually incorrect. This citizen allegedly
performed an *act* that created a real danger to the State. For any
citizen to contact another government in any sort of negotiation on
behalf of the State, and without the authorization of the Senate is a
plain usurpation of power. Furthermore, if the allegations are true,
then our Republic, which is incorporated in the United States of
America, may be in real danger.

Furthermore, and with utmost respect, the Nova Roma position on a
number of issues is clear for all to see. Women are the equals of men,
violence and force of arms are unacceptable and so forth. Citizens are
free to feel however they wish on these topics, but for any citizen to
work to overturn any of these principles would be to undermine some of
our basic principles. Again, it is not the holding of opinions, but
the acts that flow from them that would not be acceptable.

Undiluted liberty of thought and act is an admirable notion, and to
live in a world of clear and absolute certainly would make life
simpler for us all, but I will leave you with the words of Cicero,
from De Officiis:


"For it often happens, owing to exceptional circumstances, that what
is accustomed under ordinary circumstances to be considered morally
wrong is found not to be morally wrong. For the sake of illustration,
let us assume some particular case that admits of wider application -
what more atrocious crime can there be than to kill a fellow-man, and
especially an intimate friend? But if anyone kills a tyrant - be he
never so intimate a friend - he has not laden his soul with guilt, has
he? The Roman People, at all events, are not of that opinion; for of
all glorious deeds they hold such an one to be the most noble."

Optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

A. Tullia Scholastica,

> ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
> accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in

that

> capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening

statements

> on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call this
> National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these accusations

had

> been proven.

I know quite well how Nazi feelings can jeopardize the development of a
micronational society, and also throw what once was an harmonious community
into an anxious quarrel. Here in Brazil I am citizen to a micronation which
brings its ideals from the II German Empire, and we have already seen some
individuals who sought to re-enact elements from Hitlerism within the
political-partidary scene. It is something that we have learned how to
combat. However, we must be always aware of the fact that the Law allows
everyone to think as they will, and forbiding someone of doing it might be
enormously harmful to the whole Juridical Order of the State.

> Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one of
> the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe to

the

> NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from

magistrates

> and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
> everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and

reasoned

> tone while refraining from attacking others.

Having outbreaks of temper - believe me - is a compulsory degree to all
those who are portuguese-speaking micronationalists, specially Brazilians.
Since spying, hacking, "micro-terrorism", personal verbal attacks and
international conflicts are here things as usual as the daily change of our
underware, we have thus become quite acquainted to ill-tempered situations -
unfortunately. Happily, this panorama is exactly what my lusophone
micronation and other Govts. are trying to change.

> ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
> office about your name...

Well... that's nice - I think. In fact, I really had quite a debate with A.
Horatius Severus (who was helping me through the process) about it. ;-)

> ATS: This is quite pretty...

Someone translated the Brazilian National Anthem into Latin, and I found
that work at Orkut. I can send you the complete text, if you want.

Greetings,

Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
Brasilia Provincia

Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
Ventura pax decusque superatum.
- Hymnus Brasiliensis



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of A. Tullia Scholastica
Sent: sexta-feira, 9 de junho de 2006 03:38
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving

> A. Tullia Scholastica D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Sir,
>
> About the scandal you've mentioned, I could only aprehend, so far, that it
> has something to do with national-socialist manifestations whithin Nova
> Roma, but I'll be soon looking for related messafes in the archives of our
> mailgroup. In the meanwhile, I'd be glad if you could make me a short

report

> about the case.
>
> ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
> accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in

that

> capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening

statements

> on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call this
> National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these accusations

had

> been proven.
>
> Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one of
> the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe to

the

> NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from

magistrates

> and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
> everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and

reasoned

> tone while refraining from attacking others.
>
> Thank you for the wellcoming answer, by the way. ;-)
>
> ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
> office about your name...
>
> Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
> Brasilia Provincia
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
> - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>
> ATS: This is quite pretty...
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006, M. Lucretius Agricola wrote:

> Furthermore, and with utmost respect, the Nova Roma position on a
> number of issues is clear for all to see. Women are the equals of men,
> violence and force of arms are unacceptable and so forth. Citizens are
> free to feel however they wish on these topics, but for any citizen to
> work to overturn any of these principles would be to undermine some of
> our basic principles. Again, it is not the holding of opinions, but
> the acts that flow from them that would not be acceptable.

In the specific case of Naziism, I recollect, surrender terms were signed
back in 1945 under which the display of the (German) Nazi flag or the
wearing of the uniform of any of the German armed forces were outlawed and
violators subject to summary arrest and punishment. (IIRC this has never
been done since the collapse of the Nazi state, though some of the kookier
leftists like John Boardman have proposed that anyone perpetrating such a
display could lawfully be shot down on the spot.)

-- Publius Livius Triarius

Salvete

it is an honor for me to communicate that the Province Hispania of Nova Roma
will participate this weekend in a reenactment event in the city of Leon
(founded by Legio VII) that is attracting the glances of the Spanish press
and the television .

At bottom of this post I copypasted the first press article (sorry only in
spanish).I have translated the part where one mentions Nova Roma:

"By second consecutive year, the members of Legio VIIII Hispana will put
atrezzo. They belong to the Spanish branch of an international organization
denominated Nova Roma, whose objective is the conservation and
reconstruction of the culture of Old Rome. They make, they construct and
they acquire equipment that, with the greater possible fidelity, allows them
to act like authentic Roman legionaries. Like peculiar data: the Legio VII
Gemina and VIIII the Hispanic got to cross themselves in Britania…"

And this afternoon the Praefectus Castrorum of Legio VIIII Hispana will be
interviewed by the television.

Valete bene

M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
PROPRÆTOR·HISPANIÆ
SCRIBA·CENSORIS·GEM
CAPVT·OFFICINA·APPROBATIONVM
ACCENSVS·CONSVL·PMS
NOVA·ROMA
http://commentariola.blogspot.com

----- Original Message -----
From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
To: nrhispania@yahoogroups.com
Cc: nrlatinamerica@yahoogroups.com ; laslegionesderoma@... ;
locosporlahistoria@... ; impromano ; LegioVIIII@yahoogroups.com ;
historiaviva@...
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: [NRHispania] [COMMENTARIOLA HISPANIAE] Leon


La Legio VII celebra su natalicio montando un campamento en el Cid

http://www.diariodeleon.es/se_cultura/noticia.jsp?CAT=114&TEXTO=4842252

El Club de Prensa del Diario de León también se hace romano con un ciclo de
conferencias
Promonumenta ha organizado para mañana un desfile de romanos por el centro
de León

Un puñado de hombres -apenas los que caben en un contubernia (barracón)-
asaltarán mañana la ciudad, incluida la Via Principalis (calle Ancha).
Ataviados con cascos, corazas y espadas desfilarán en memoria de aquellos
que hace ahora 1.938 años habitaban en un campamento que con el tiempo sería
origen de la ciudad de León. Son simples aficionados. Miembros de una
moderna legión llamada Legio VIIII (escrito así) Hispana, que se dedican a
recrear el mundo romano. Saldrán de la plaza del Grano y se detendrán en las
criptas de Cascalerías y la Catedral, que conservan restos de las termas y
del anfiteatro, y llegarán hasta el jardín del Cid. Será aquí, un día
después, donde montarán un auténtico campamento, para mostrar a los
ciudadanos como vivían y cómo peleaban sus antepasados romanos. Un
campamento abierto a todo el público que quiera participar.

Y todo ello porque el 10 de junio del año 68 de nuestra era nacía la Legio
VII, una de las pocas legiones de las que se sabe con precisión su fecha de
fundación. El aniversario ha sido celebrado puntualmente por la asociación
Promonumenta, que desde hace seis años envuelve esta fecha de
reivindicaciones en pro del legado que los romanos dejaron a la ciudad y a
la provincia. A partir de mañana Promonumenta llenará la ciudad de romanos
para festejar el llamado natalicio de las águilas -nombre que procede de los
estandartes que portaba el ejército romano y que, precisamente, se
custodiaban en los Principia (el cuartel general), cuyos restos se
encontraron en un solar de la calle San Pelayo que lleva meses envuelto en
la polémica-.

El intrigante

Servio Sulpicio Galba. Con semejante nombre, el gobernador de la Hispania
Tarraconensis estaba predestinado a pasar a la historia como un intrigante.
En el año 68, (un 10 de junio), este mandatario de Roma crea la Legio VII
con el fin último de dar un golpe de Estado y destituir al emperador. La
Legio VII, tras saquear la capital del Imperio y otras escaramuzas en las
fronteras centroeuropeas, se asienta definitivamente en el año 74 en lo que
con el tiempo sería la ciudad de León.

Promonumenta rinde honores a aquel destacamento de 6.000 hombres, la mayoría
reclutados entre los hispanos, que se acantonan entre los ríos Bernesga y
Torío. También la asociación, en colaboración con el Diario de León, ha
preparado un ciclo de conferencias y una exposición filatélica sobre el
mundo romano; tan próximo y, al mismo tiempo, desconocido por quienes hoy
habitan dentro de las murallas que ellos levantaron y en la cannaba que hace
casi dos milenios acogía a la población civil.

Una asociación guerrera

Por segundo año consecutivo, los miembros de la Legio VIIII Hispana pondrán
el atrezzo. Pertenecen a la rama española de una organización internacional
denominada Nova Roma, cuyo objetivo es la conservación y reconstrucción de
la cultura de la Antigua Roma. Fabrican, construyen y adquieren equipo que,
con la mayor fidelidad posible, les permite actuar como auténticos
legionarios romanos. Como dato curioso: la Legio VII Gemina y la VIIII
Hispana llegaron a cruzarse en Britania...

SALVETE !

Hispanians, amici ! We wish you a great time there. Congratulations
for your wonderful dedication.
Greetings from me, Romeo and Marcus.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
>
> it is an honor for me to communicate that the Province Hispania of

Nova Roma

> will participate this weekend in a reenactment event in the city

of Leon

> (founded by Legio VII) that is attracting the glances of the

Spanish press

> and the television .
>
> At bottom of this post I copypasted the first press article (sorry

only in

> spanish).I have translated the part where one mentions Nova Roma:
>
> "By second consecutive year, the members of Legio VIIII Hispana

will put

> atrezzo. They belong to the Spanish branch of an international

organization

> denominated Nova Roma, whose objective is the conservation and
> reconstruction of the culture of Old Rome. They make, they

construct and

> they acquire equipment that, with the greater possible fidelity,

allows them

> to act like authentic Roman legionaries. Like peculiar data: the

Legio VII

> Gemina and VIIII the Hispanic got to cross themselves in BritaniaÂ…"
>
> And this afternoon the Praefectus Castrorum of Legio VIIII Hispana

will be

> interviewed by the television.
>
> Valete bene
>
> M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
> PROPRÆTOR·HISPANIÆ
> SCRIBA·CENSORIS·GEM
> CAPVT·OFFICINA·APPROBATIONVM
> ACCENSVS·CONSVL·PMS
> NOVA·ROMA
> http://commentariola.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
> To: nrhispania@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: nrlatinamerica@yahoogroups.com ; laslegionesderoma@... ;
> locosporlahistoria@... ; impromano ; LegioVIIII@yahoogroups.com ;
> historiaviva@...
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:53 AM
> Subject: [NRHispania] [COMMENTARIOLA HISPANIAE] Leon
>
>
> La Legio VII celebra su natalicio montando un campamento en el Cid
>
> http://www.diariodeleon.es/se_cultura/noticia.jsp?

CAT=114&TEXTO=4842252

>
> El Club de Prensa del Diario de León también se hace romano con un

ciclo de

> conferencias
> Promonumenta ha organizado para mañana un desfile de romanos por

el centro

> de León
>
> Un puñado de hombres -apenas los que caben en un contubernia

(barracón)-

> asaltarán mañana la ciudad, incluida la Via Principalis (calle

Ancha).

> Ataviados con cascos, corazas y espadas desfilarán en memoria de

aquellos

> que hace ahora 1.938 años habitaban en un campamento que con el

tiempo sería

> origen de la ciudad de León. Son simples aficionados. Miembros de

una

> moderna legión llamada Legio VIIII (escrito así) Hispana, que se

dedican a

> recrear el mundo romano. Saldrán de la plaza del Grano y se

detendrán en las

> criptas de Cascalerías y la Catedral, que conservan restos de las

termas y

> del anfiteatro, y llegarán hasta el jardín del Cid. Será aquí, un

día

> después, donde montarán un auténtico campamento, para mostrar a

los

> ciudadanos como vivían y cómo peleaban sus antepasados romanos. Un
> campamento abierto a todo el público que quiera participar.
>
> Y todo ello porque el 10 de junio del año 68 de nuestra era nacía

la Legio

> VII, una de las pocas legiones de las que se sabe con precisión su

fecha de

> fundación. El aniversario ha sido celebrado puntualmente por la

asociación

> Promonumenta, que desde hace seis años envuelve esta fecha de
> reivindicaciones en pro del legado que los romanos dejaron a la

ciudad y a

> la provincia. A partir de mañana Promonumenta llenará la ciudad de

romanos

> para festejar el llamado natalicio de las águilas -nombre que

procede de los

> estandartes que portaba el ejército romano y que, precisamente, se
> custodiaban en los Principia (el cuartel general), cuyos restos se
> encontraron en un solar de la calle San Pelayo que lleva meses

envuelto en

> la polémica-.
>
> El intrigante
>
> Servio Sulpicio Galba. Con semejante nombre, el gobernador de la

Hispania

> Tarraconensis estaba predestinado a pasar a la historia como un

intrigante.

> En el año 68, (un 10 de junio), este mandatario de Roma crea la

Legio VII

> con el fin último de dar un golpe de Estado y destituir al

emperador. La

> Legio VII, tras saquear la capital del Imperio y otras escaramuzas

en las

> fronteras centroeuropeas, se asienta definitivamente en el año 74

en lo que

> con el tiempo sería la ciudad de León.
>
> Promonumenta rinde honores a aquel destacamento de 6.000 hombres,

la mayoría

> reclutados entre los hispanos, que se acantonan entre los ríos

Bernesga y

> Torío. También la asociación, en colaboración con el Diario de

León, ha

> preparado un ciclo de conferencias y una exposición filatélica

sobre el

> mundo romano; tan próximo y, al mismo tiempo, desconocido por

quienes hoy

> habitan dentro de las murallas que ellos levantaron y en la

cannaba que hace

> casi dos milenios acogía a la población civil.
>
> Una asociación guerrera
>
> Por segundo año consecutivo, los miembros de la Legio VIIII

Hispana pondrán

> el atrezzo. Pertenecen a la rama española de una organización

internacional

> denominada Nova Roma, cuyo objetivo es la conservación y

reconstrucción de

> la cultura de la Antigua Roma. Fabrican, construyen y adquieren

equipo que,

> con la mayor fidelidad posible, les permite actuar como auténticos
> legionarios romanos. Como dato curioso: la Legio VII Gemina y la

VIIII

> Hispana llegaron a cruzarse en Britania...
>

Salve Fabi Maxime!

With all due respects it is not a question of Consul Modianus 'cherrypicking' certain beliefs as being undesirable. Some beliefs and actions taken to support them ARE unacceptable in any civilised community. I would include among them the supression or extermination of large swathes of society on the basis of gender or race. I'm loath to get too involved in this but I am uncomfortable with the trial's outcome and was pretty well in support of the Consul's initial attempt to get Claudius Priscus thrown out. In ancient times there were plenty of examples of undesirables being stripped of their citizenship and sent into exile when their presence was deemed to threaten the wellbeing of the City as a whole. The mullets are very good in Massilia after all.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
In a message dated 6/8/2006 5:24:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tau.athanasios@... writes:
A Nova Roma event is being held, and a citizen is giving a workshop
(lecture) on Rome and during the course of the lecture starts to illustrate
how Nazi Germany was a modern day Rome and emphasises that it was "very
similar to Nova Roma and what our goals are...," and proceeds to show the
similarity in symbols like the fasces or equates the Schutzstaffel (SS) to a
sort of "Praetorian Guard." And glorifies the exploits of the Nazi regime
and tries to link Nazi idealogy with that of Nova Roma through common
symbols.
Consul,
<<An open comment to the Consul>>
You are reaching here and you know it. Equitius Cato is right, and you are
wrong.

To use your example against you, what if a Consul of Nova Roma gave a
demonstration and said that NR should be modernized, the laws changed to reflect the
21st century following
English common law et al. Why that Consul would just be as guilty as that
Nazi lecturer
would be wouldn't he? Most white supremacists follow Germany since they were
able to accomplish their goal under a dictator. The fact that the 1000 year
Empire broke up after Germany was defeated, matters little to them, it is the
ideal. It has nothing to do with the Roman symbol of curial authority.

Until Nova Roma gets that dictator, and we become white supremacists I
wouldn't worry.
But with you cherry picking beliefs as being undesirable, and issuing edicts
against them, we are well on our way aren't we?

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
In Nova Roma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

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Salve!

I am new to this forum and my citizenship is still pending in Nova
Roma. I hope this post does not ruin my opportunity to attain
citizenship.

It should be noted that Fascism and National Socialism are not the
same isms nor do they share the same beliefs.

It could also be said that Rome was a Fascist-like state.

As Nova Roma allows a personal expression in the private practice of
religion it must allow a freedom of political viewpoint. This
includes a viewpoint that some may find distasteful. I do not think
it is the intent of Nova Roma to be censor of ones private political
views.

The actions of the accused as to wrongly speaking for or pubically
representing Nova Roma are another matter and seperate from whatever
their political views may be. These seperate lines seem to be
entangled.

Vale!

Brian Phillips
Citizenship Pending # 10196

C. Equitius Cato Brian Philips quiritibusque S.P.D.

Salve et salvete.

Brian Philips scripsit:

"The actions of the accused as to wrongly speaking for or pubically
representing Nova Roma are another matter and seperate from whatever
their political views may be. These seperate lines seem to be
entangled."

Exactly. That is the point I have been trying to make since the
problem first reared its ugly head. This has been exacerbated by the
edict promulgated by the consul, which I believe violates our right,
guaranteed as citizens of the Republic by the lex Constitutiva, to
engage in "unrestricted" speech. Freedom of speech means *all*
speech, not just the kinds of speech we may personally agree with or
enjoy hearing. As the famous saying goes:

"Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to
make it possible for you to continue to write." - Voltaire, letter to
M. le Riche (February 6, 1770)

Vale et valete,

Cato

To place this in a macro-national context for comparison purposes only.

1) In the United States ALL political speech is protected including but not
limited to: Nazi ideology, racism, and "religionism". This includes but is
not limited to political speech in which one writes a letter to a
representative of a foreign government in which you identify yourself as an
American Citizen adhering to racist or Nazi ideology. No ifs ands or buts;
it is protected. (see US Constitution - First Amendment)

2) In Europe and Canada MOST political speech is tolerated, this generally
excludes Nazi ideology, racism, and "religionism." In some places you can
be fined in other places jailed. If you don't believe me, try goose
stepping while doing the straight arm salute and singing Deutchland Uberalis
along the Champs Elysees or in front of the Bundestag.

So the question is does Nove Roma's constitution protect ALL political speech,
or tolerate MOST political speech. That is really the only question. Once
that question is answered, then you can get down to having some really fun
arguments. You can argue about which political speech is tolerated and
which is not. You can then argue about who gets to make these decisions.
You can argue about whether speech outside NR, can be punished within NR.
You can then argue about whether these decisions can be Ex Post Facto, i.e.
can a citizen be punished for saying something that was not on the "Speech
Not Tolerated List" at the time it was said but was later added to this
list. You can argue about whether an official list should be kept ,or
whether these decisions should be made arbitrarily every time someone says
something you find intolerable.

These arguments can be lots of fun.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 6/9/06, Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Fabi Maxime!
>
> With all due respects it is not a question of Consul Modianus
> 'cherrypicking' certain beliefs as being undesirable. Some beliefs and
> actions taken to support them ARE unacceptable in any civilised community. I
> would include among them the supression or extermination of large swathes of
> society on the basis of gender or race. I'm loath to get too involved in
> this but I am uncomfortable with the trial's outcome and was pretty well in
> support of the Consul's initial attempt to get Claudius Priscus thrown out.
> In ancient times there were plenty of examples of undesirables being
> stripped of their citizenship and sent into exile when their presence was
> deemed to threaten the wellbeing of the City as a whole. The mullets are
> very good in Massilia after all.
>
> Vale!
>
> Caius Moravius Brutus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Lucia Modia Lupa and I agree that the best way to celebrate Vestalia is to enjoy the words of Publius Ovidius Naso, known to one and all as Ovid.
Happy Vestalia to everyone, especially to all the women and girls of Nova Roma!

Valete in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"To the Romans the Temple of Vesta was the most sacred."



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


9 June

Vesta, be favorable. To you I now open my lips in devotions,
if I am permitted to come to your ritual.
While absorbed in prayer I felt a divine presence
and the floor shone joyously with purple light.
Of course I didn't see you - so long, poetic license
you are not a Goddess for a man to behold,
but I've learned with no human teacher what I didn't know
while confusion had me in its grip.
When Rome had passed forty anniversaries, people say
that a shrine welcomed the Goddess who keeps the flame,
the project of that peace-loving king, the most God-fearing soul
ever produced by the Sabine territory.
The roofs of bronze you see today were then straw-thatched,
and the walls were plaited from pliant wattles.
This tiny spot, the site of the Vestals' official residence,
was then the palace of King Numa the long-beard.
But the shape of the temple, which survivies to this day, was there before,
they say, and a commendable reason is behind that shape.
Vesta and the Earth are the same; behind both is an unsleeping fire.
The Earth is like a ball, completely unsupported,
its heavy weight hanging in the air beneath it.
Rotation itself balances the sphere and holds it up:
there are no corners to weigh down any side.
Situated as it is in the central region of the universe,
so it doesn't touch any side more than another,
if it were not curved, it would be one side's closer neighbor,
and the universe wouldn't have Earth as its weighty center.
There's a globe suspended in space by Archimedes' know-how,
a tiny model of the measureless heavens,
where the Earth is equidistant from its top and its bottom.
The spherical shape makes such a thing possible.
Vesta's temple looks the same. Not a single corner
sticks out, and the dome protects it from the rain.
Why do virgin attendants minister to the Goddess, you ask?
For this too I'll find the proper explanation.
Juno and Ceres, they say, were sired on Rhea
by Saturn; Vesta was the third daughter.
The first two wed, we hear that the first two gave birth.
Of the three, only one remained inexperienced with men.
No wonder that a virgin is delighted by a virgin attendant
and welcomes chaste hands to her rites.
Don't imagine that Vesta is anything but living flame;
you won't see a single substance born from flame.
And so She's rightly a virgin, She produces nor receives
any seeds, and She loves Her virgin associates.
For quite a while I stupidly thought there were statues of Vesta.
I soon learned there weren't any in the domed rotunda.
A fire that never goes out is hidden in that temple;
neither Vesta nor the fire has a single likeness.
The earth is very stable. From being very stable, Vesta gets Her name,
as in Greek She's Hestia from Her heavy resting.
The hearth is named for its hearty warmth that heartens all,
but it used to be at the front of the house.
From this I believe the "vestibule" derives, and praying
with a preamble to Vesta, who occupies first place.

It once was the custom to sit before the hearth on benches
and believe one's Gods were present at the table.
Even today when the rites of ancient Vacuna take place,
one stands and sits before Vacuna's hearth.
A bit of archaic custom has come down to the present age:
a clean little dish brings the food offered to Vesta.
Look at the bread hanging down from garlanded asses,
and wreaths of flowers festooning rough millstones.
The early peasants used ovens only for toasting barley
(the goddess of ovens has rites of her own):
the hearth itself got the bread ready, buried in the ashes,
with a broken roof-tile laid on the warm ground.
And so the baker honors the hearth and our Lady of Hearths
and the ass that turns the volcanic millstones.
Ruddy Priapus, should I bypass your disgrace, or recount it?
It's a little story with a lot of laughs.
With Her turreted crown in place on Her forehead, Cybele
invited the immortal Gods to Her feast.
She invited both the satyrs and those rural spirits, the nymphs;
Silenus was there without an invitation.
It's prohibited and would be protracted to describe divine banquets:
they stayed up all night with lots of wine.
Some were roaming aimlessly in the hollows of shady Ida,
others lay down and relaxed on the soft grass;
some made merry, some were asleep; others linked arms
and stamped a quick three-step on the verdant ground.
Vesta lay down and took a peaceful nap without a care,
just as She was, with Her head pillowed on the turf.
But the ruddy garden scarecrow went prowling for nymphs and goddesses,
directing his roaming steps back and forth.
He glimpsed Vesta: maybe he thought She was a nymph or maybe
he knew She was Vesta, but he says he didn't.
He got a nasty notion, and tried to approach stealthily,
making his way on tiptoe with pounding heart.
Old man Silenus had happened to leave the ass he had ridden
by the banks of a gently babbling stream.
The God of the long Hellespont was making a move to get started
when that creature brayed an untimely blast.
The deep sound frightened the Goddess awake. The whole crowd flocked
together, the villain escaped amidst threatening hands.
At Lampsacus it's the custom to slaughter this beast for Priapus, singing,
"We fittingly offer a tattler's guts to the flames."
But Vesta, You gratefully deck it with necklaces of bread.
Work stops, and the idle mills fall silent.
Now I'll tell the meaning of the altar on the Thunderer's stronghold
for Iupiter the Baker, more notable for its name than its cost.
The Capitoline was hemmed in and hard-pressed by savage Gauls:
a siege of long standing had caused starvation.
Iupiter summoned the celestials to His royal throne and said
"Commence" to Mars, who reported at once:
"Of course the state of their distress is unknown to you
and this heartache of mine needs to voice a complaint.
But if you demand a concise account of their shameful distress,
the Alpine foe has brought Rome to her knees.
This is the city you would put in command of the earth?
Just now she crushed the nearby towns and Etruscan forces;
hope was full speed. Now she's been driven from her home.
I have witnessed old men in their bronze-fitted courtyards meet death
decked in the regalia of their past triumphs.
I have witnessed the talismans of Trojan Vesta moved from Her dwelling
to safety. Romans of course suppose Gods are somebodies.
But if they looked around at the stronghold where you reside
and all your homes hard-pressed by the siege,
they would know that no help is left to repay concern for the Gods
and that incense offered with a careful hand is a waste.
If only a chance to fight would appear. Let them take up arms
and if they can't prevail, let them fall.
But now, without food and afraid of inglorious death, cooped up
on their hill they're hard-pressed by the barbarian horde."
Then Venus, and Quirinus splendid with augur's crook and kingly robe,
and Vesta too said much for their Latium's sake.
Iupiter replied, "Those walls concern every one of us,
and vanquished Gaul will pay the price.
Now Vesta, see that the enemy thinks the grain that's gone
is still left, and don't abandon your dwelling.
Whatever grain is intact, let the hollow machinery grind
and the hearth fire-harden what kneading has softened."
By the time Saturn's virgin daughter had given Her assent
to Her brother's command, the hour was midnight.
Toil had brought sleep to the Roman leaders. Thundering at them,
Iupiter revealed His will through holy lips:
"Get up and from the stronghold's heights into the enemy's midst
let loose the resource you are least willing to lose."
Sleep departed and the strange riddle drove them to seek
to surrender the resource as ordered against their will.
It appeared to be bread, so they threw down the bounty of Ceres.
What they threw clanged on helmets and long shields.
There went the hope of starving them out. When the enemy had been routed,
a splendid altar was out up for Iupiter the Baker.

I happened to be heading home on Vesta's holiday by the staircase
that has recently linked New Street to the Roman Forum.
I observed a lady climbing down this way barefooted.
Unable to speak, I stopped in my tracks.
An old woman from the neighborhood noticed, told me to sit down,
and said as her head shook and her voice trembled:
"This area where the fora are today was occupied by sodden swamps;
the storm sewer was soggy with the river's overflow.
Lake Curtius over there, the site of altars high and dry,
now solid ground, was a lake before.
The regular route for the parade to the Circus through the Velabrum
district was nothing but willows and hollow reeds.
Often a reveller heading home by the city's waterway
would sing and make drunken remarks to the boatmen.
Yonder God, Vertumnus, hadn't yet taken a name from averting
the stream, that also fits His versatile shapes.
Here too there was a grove thick with canes and rushes,
and a swamp you wouldn't approach with your shoes still on.
The pools have receded and the banks keep their waters in,
and now it's dry ground, but that custom survives."
That explained that. "Goodbye, my dear old woman," I said.
"May what's left of your life be entirely easy."

The rest of the story I learned long ago in the time of my boyhood,
but I mustn't omit it on that account.
Ilus, great-grandson of Dardanus, had just constructed new walls
(Ilus the rich still controlled the East).
People believe a heaven-sent statue of Minerva in arms
landed on the slopes of the city of Ilium.
I was anxious to see it: I saw the temple and its environs;
that's still over there, but Rome has the Palladium.
When the Trojans consulted Apollo, from His shady grove darkly
He gave this response with lips that do not lie:
"Keep safe the Goddess from heaven, and you'll keep your city safe.
Authority over this area goes where She does."
Ilus kept Her safe by shutting Her away atop his stronghold,
and this concern passed on to his heir Laomedon.
In Priam's reign She was not kept safe enough, as was Her will
after Her beauty lost out in that contest.
They say She was stolen. Maybe Adrastus' grandson did it,
or Ulysses, the proficient trickster, or Aeneas.
The culprit is uncertain, the object is at Rome, safeguarded by Vesta
because She sees everything by Her constant light.

Oh how frightened the senators were, when Vesta's temple caught
fire, and She almost was buried by her very own roof!
It was a blaze of hallowed fires and fires accursed,
a blend of flames profane and sacred.
The dumbstruck Vestals undid their hair and wept:
fright itself had taken their strength.
Into their midst flew Metellus, who said at the top of his voice,
"Come help; weeping won't do any good.
Pick up the talismans of destiny in your virgin fingers.
Not your prayers but your hands must carry them off.
Woe is me! Why hesitate?" He saw them hesitate
and go down in terror on bended knee.
He scooped up holy water, raised his hands, and said, "Forgive me,
as a man I shall enter where a man must not go.
Let Rome be absolved by the loss of my life."
He spoke and burst in: the Goddess he carried off approved his deed,
and was kept safe by Her chief priest's service.
Now, holy flames, in Augustus' reign you shine as you should:
the fire on the hearth from Troy is here to stay.
There won't be any record in this leader's reign of a priestess
sullying her vows, nor buried alive in the ground.
That's how an unchaste one dies, buried in what she's profaned:
the Earth and Vesta are the same divinity.

This is the day a Brutus earned his title by staining
Spanish soil with the blood of Callaican foes.
As the saying goes, joy is sometimes alloyed with sorrow
to keep the people from whole-hearted celebration.
At the Euphrates Crassus lost standards, son and troops,
and was himself the last to die.
"Parthian, why gloat?" said Nemesis. "You are going to return the standards
and an avenger will make Crassus' murderes pay."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Ovid's "Fasti - Roman Holidays," translated by Betty Rose Nagle, 1995 ed.


__________________________________________________
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EDICTVM•PROPRÆTORICIVM•XXIX (A C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS XI)
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRÆTOR•BRASILIƕOMNIBVS•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

By this edictum, and using my Imperium (given to me by Senatus and
Populus Romanum), I decide:

Because the new citizens have been demonstrating many interests on
the brazilian provincial jobs, I revoke the antiquity necessary for
the functions of LEGATVS INTERNIS REBVS, LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS and
PROCURATOR RETIS, as prescripted by EDICTVM·PROPRÆTORICIVM·XXIII (A
C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS V).

In this way, any brazilian citizen, independently of antiquity, can
be nomeated to those functions.

Sorry my real very bad english!

DATVM•SVB•MANV•MEA•A•D•V•ID•IVNIAS•MMDCCLIX•A•V•C
GAIO•FABIO•BUTEONE•MODIANO•POMPEIA•MINUCIA-TIBERIA•STRABONE•CONSULIBUS

C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

> Salve, Maxima Valeria Messallina amica, et salvete, omnes!
>
> Happy Vestalia to you as well! I enjoyed reading your posts on this
> subject.
>
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> Lucia Modia Lupa and I agree that the best way to celebrate Vestalia is to
> enjoy the words of Publius Ovidius Naso, known to one and all as Ovid.
> Happy Vestalia to everyone, especially to all the women and girls of Nova
> Roma!
>
> Valete in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "To the Romans the Temple of Vesta was the most sacred."
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> 9 June
>
> Vesta, be favorable. To you I now open my lips in devotions,
> if I am permitted to come to your ritual.
> While absorbed in prayer I felt a divine presence
> and the floor shone joyously with purple light.
> Of course I didn't see you - so long, poetic license
> you are not a Goddess for a man to behold,
> but I've learned with no human teacher what I didn't know
> while confusion had me in its grip.
> When Rome had passed forty anniversaries, people say
> that a shrine welcomed the Goddess who keeps the flame,
> the project of that peace-loving king, the most God-fearing soul
> ever produced by the Sabine territory.
> The roofs of bronze you see today were then straw-thatched,
> and the walls were plaited from pliant wattles.
> This tiny spot, the site of the Vestals' official residence,
> was then the palace of King Numa the long-beard.
> But the shape of the temple, which survivies to this day, was there before,
> they say, and a commendable reason is behind that shape.
> Vesta and the Earth are the same; behind both is an unsleeping fire.
> The Earth is like a ball, completely unsupported,
> its heavy weight hanging in the air beneath it.
> Rotation itself balances the sphere and holds it up:
> there are no corners to weigh down any side.
> Situated as it is in the central region of the universe,
> so it doesn't touch any side more than another,
> if it were not curved, it would be one side's closer neighbor,
> and the universe wouldn't have Earth as its weighty center.
> There's a globe suspended in space by Archimedes' know-how,
> a tiny model of the measureless heavens,
> where the Earth is equidistant from its top and its bottom.
> The spherical shape makes such a thing possible.
> Vesta's temple looks the same. Not a single corner
> sticks out, and the dome protects it from the rain.
> Why do virgin attendants minister to the Goddess, you ask?
> For this too I'll find the proper explanation.
> Juno and Ceres, they say, were sired on Rhea
> by Saturn; Vesta was the third daughter.
> The first two wed, we hear that the first two gave birth.
> Of the three, only one remained inexperienced with men.
> No wonder that a virgin is delighted by a virgin attendant
> and welcomes chaste hands to her rites.
> Don't imagine that Vesta is anything but living flame;
> you won't see a single substance born from flame.
> And so She's rightly a virgin, She produces nor receives
> any seeds, and She loves Her virgin associates.
> For quite a while I stupidly thought there were statues of Vesta.
> I soon learned there weren't any in the domed rotunda.
> A fire that never goes out is hidden in that temple;
> neither Vesta nor the fire has a single likeness.
> The earth is very stable. From being very stable, Vesta gets Her name,
> as in Greek She's Hestia from Her heavy resting.
> The hearth is named for its hearty warmth that heartens all,
> but it used to be at the front of the house.
> From this I believe the "vestibule" derives, and praying
> with a preamble to Vesta, who occupies first place.
>
> It once was the custom to sit before the hearth on benches
> and believe one's Gods were present at the table.
> Even today when the rites of ancient Vacuna take place,
> one stands and sits before Vacuna's hearth.
> A bit of archaic custom has come down to the present age:
> a clean little dish brings the food offered to Vesta.
> Look at the bread hanging down from garlanded asses,
> and wreaths of flowers festooning rough millstones.
> The early peasants used ovens only for toasting barley
> (the goddess of ovens has rites of her own):
> the hearth itself got the bread ready, buried in the ashes,
> with a broken roof-tile laid on the warm ground.
> And so the baker honors the hearth and our Lady of Hearths
> and the ass that turns the volcanic millstones.
> Ruddy Priapus, should I bypass your disgrace, or recount it?
> It's a little story with a lot of laughs.
> With Her turreted crown in place on Her forehead, Cybele
> invited the immortal Gods to Her feast.
> She invited both the satyrs and those rural spirits, the nymphs;
> Silenus was there without an invitation.
> It's prohibited and would be protracted to describe divine banquets:
> they stayed up all night with lots of wine.
> Some were roaming aimlessly in the hollows of shady Ida,
> others lay down and relaxed on the soft grass;
> some made merry, some were asleep; others linked arms
> and stamped a quick three-step on the verdant ground.
> Vesta lay down and took a peaceful nap without a care,
> just as She was, with Her head pillowed on the turf.
> But the ruddy garden scarecrow went prowling for nymphs and goddesses,
> directing his roaming steps back and forth.
> He glimpsed Vesta: maybe he thought She was a nymph or maybe
> he knew She was Vesta, but he says he didn't.
> He got a nasty notion, and tried to approach stealthily,
> making his way on tiptoe with pounding heart.
> Old man Silenus had happened to leave the ass he had ridden
> by the banks of a gently babbling stream.
> The God of the long Hellespont was making a move to get started
> when that creature brayed an untimely blast.
> The deep sound frightened the Goddess awake. The whole crowd flocked
> together, the villain escaped amidst threatening hands.
> At Lampsacus it's the custom to slaughter this beast for Priapus, singing,
> "We fittingly offer a tattler's guts to the flames."
> But Vesta, You gratefully deck it with necklaces of bread.
> Work stops, and the idle mills fall silent.
> Now I'll tell the meaning of the altar on the Thunderer's stronghold
> for Iupiter the Baker, more notable for its name than its cost.
> The Capitoline was hemmed in and hard-pressed by savage Gauls:
> a siege of long standing had caused starvation.
> Iupiter summoned the celestials to His royal throne and said
> "Commence" to Mars, who reported at once:
> "Of course the state of their distress is unknown to you
> and this heartache of mine needs to voice a complaint.
> But if you demand a concise account of their shameful distress,
> the Alpine foe has brought Rome to her knees.
> This is the city you would put in command of the earth?
> Just now she crushed the nearby towns and Etruscan forces;
> hope was full speed. Now she's been driven from her home.
> I have witnessed old men in their bronze-fitted courtyards meet death
> decked in the regalia of their past triumphs.
> I have witnessed the talismans of Trojan Vesta moved from Her dwelling
> to safety. Romans of course suppose Gods are somebodies.
> But if they looked around at the stronghold where you reside
> and all your homes hard-pressed by the siege,
> they would know that no help is left to repay concern for the Gods
> and that incense offered with a careful hand is a waste.
> If only a chance to fight would appear. Let them take up arms
> and if they can't prevail, let them fall.
> But now, without food and afraid of inglorious death, cooped up
> on their hill they're hard-pressed by the barbarian horde."
> Then Venus, and Quirinus splendid with augur's crook and kingly robe,
> and Vesta too said much for their Latium's sake.
> Iupiter replied, "Those walls concern every one of us,
> and vanquished Gaul will pay the price.
> Now Vesta, see that the enemy thinks the grain that's gone
> is still left, and don't abandon your dwelling.
> Whatever grain is intact, let the hollow machinery grind
> and the hearth fire-harden what kneading has softened."
> By the time Saturn's virgin daughter had given Her assent
> to Her brother's command, the hour was midnight.
> Toil had brought sleep to the Roman leaders. Thundering at them,
> Iupiter revealed His will through holy lips:
> "Get up and from the stronghold's heights into the enemy's midst
> let loose the resource you are least willing to lose."
> Sleep departed and the strange riddle drove them to seek
> to surrender the resource as ordered against their will.
> It appeared to be bread, so they threw down the bounty of Ceres.
> What they threw clanged on helmets and long shields.
> There went the hope of starving them out. When the enemy had been routed,
> a splendid altar was out up for Iupiter the Baker.
>
> I happened to be heading home on Vesta's holiday by the staircase
> that has recently linked New Street to the Roman Forum.
> I observed a lady climbing down this way barefooted.
> Unable to speak, I stopped in my tracks.
> An old woman from the neighborhood noticed, told me to sit down,
> and said as her head shook and her voice trembled:
> "This area where the fora are today was occupied by sodden swamps;
> the storm sewer was soggy with the river's overflow.
> Lake Curtius over there, the site of altars high and dry,
> now solid ground, was a lake before.
> The regular route for the parade to the Circus through the Velabrum
> district was nothing but willows and hollow reeds.
> Often a reveller heading home by the city's waterway
> would sing and make drunken remarks to the boatmen.
> Yonder God, Vertumnus, hadn't yet taken a name from averting
> the stream, that also fits His versatile shapes.
> Here too there was a grove thick with canes and rushes,
> and a swamp you wouldn't approach with your shoes still on.
> The pools have receded and the banks keep their waters in,
> and now it's dry ground, but that custom survives."
> That explained that. "Goodbye, my dear old woman," I said.
> "May what's left of your life be entirely easy."
>
> The rest of the story I learned long ago in the time of my boyhood,
> but I mustn't omit it on that account.
> Ilus, great-grandson of Dardanus, had just constructed new walls
> (Ilus the rich still controlled the East).
> People believe a heaven-sent statue of Minerva in arms
> landed on the slopes of the city of Ilium.
> I was anxious to see it: I saw the temple and its environs;
> that's still over there, but Rome has the Palladium.
> When the Trojans consulted Apollo, from His shady grove darkly
> He gave this response with lips that do not lie:
> "Keep safe the Goddess from heaven, and you'll keep your city safe.
> Authority over this area goes where She does."
> Ilus kept Her safe by shutting Her away atop his stronghold,
> and this concern passed on to his heir Laomedon.
> In Priam's reign She was not kept safe enough, as was Her will
> after Her beauty lost out in that contest.
> They say She was stolen. Maybe Adrastus' grandson did it,
> or Ulysses, the proficient trickster, or Aeneas.
> The culprit is uncertain, the object is at Rome, safeguarded by Vesta
> because She sees everything by Her constant light.
>
> Oh how frightened the senators were, when Vesta's temple caught
> fire, and She almost was buried by her very own roof!
> It was a blaze of hallowed fires and fires accursed,
> a blend of flames profane and sacred.
> The dumbstruck Vestals undid their hair and wept:
> fright itself had taken their strength.
> Into their midst flew Metellus, who said at the top of his voice,
> "Come help; weeping won't do any good.
> Pick up the talismans of destiny in your virgin fingers.
> Not your prayers but your hands must carry them off.
> Woe is me! Why hesitate?" He saw them hesitate
> and go down in terror on bended knee.
> He scooped up holy water, raised his hands, and said, "Forgive me,
> as a man I shall enter where a man must not go.
> Let Rome be absolved by the loss of my life."
> He spoke and burst in: the Goddess he carried off approved his deed,
> and was kept safe by Her chief priest's service.
> Now, holy flames, in Augustus' reign you shine as you should:
> the fire on the hearth from Troy is here to stay.
> There won't be any record in this leader's reign of a priestess
> sullying her vows, nor buried alive in the ground.
> That's how an unchaste one dies, buried in what she's profaned:
> the Earth and Vesta are the same divinity.
>
> This is the day a Brutus earned his title by staining
> Spanish soil with the blood of Callaican foes.
> As the saying goes, joy is sometimes alloyed with sorrow
> to keep the people from whole-hearted celebration.
> At the Euphrates Crassus lost standards, son and troops,
> and was himself the last to die.
> "Parthian, why gloat?" said Nemesis. "You are going to return the standards
> and an avenger will make Crassus' murderes pay."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> From Ovid's "Fasti - Roman Holidays," translated by Betty Rose Nagle, 1995
> ed.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve consul!

A citizen GN. EQVIT MARINUS called me an idiot. I have all this in my PC.
According to the laws of Portugal he committed a crime " Queixa crime por difamação". I want him in the portugues court. Do I need a lawier of Nova Roma or can I trust in my own lawier? In any case he must appear in portugues court because I already advanced with my legal action. Will he appear or do we need an Interpol?

Gaius Cassius Piso

"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> escreveu:
Salvete:

Classics are an important academic discipline. I signed the petition, and
it only took a minute or two.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/9/06, Caius Curius Saturninus <c.curius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Here is a petition in favour of Classicis teaching in Portugal. At
> the website mentioned in the message there's further information and
> you can read the petition.
>
> Valete,
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > A PETITION IN FAVOR OF CLASSICS IN PORTUGAL
> >
> > Dear Colleagues and Friends
> >
> > Classics in Portugal are by now suffering their greatest attack in
> > many
> > years. Help us to fight against this cultural narrowness of our
> > politics, by signing and sending to others, mainly to the members of
> > FIEC, the Petition in Favor of Classical Languages en Portugal:
> >
> > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/classici/petition.html
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Cassius Piso omnibus S.P.D

SALVETE QUIRITES!

I, Gaius Cassius Piso, citizen of Nova-Roma, in the province of Hispania, officialy present my resignation of citizenship of Nova-Roma.
I had promised to not send any more post on this list, but this one I have to send.
Saturninus and some others manifested their anxiety about the classic studies in Portugal...
My wife is a teacher here in Portugal. NOW THE FACT IS: a majority of portugues students can't read, write or speak portugues correctly when they enter in university! A greate part of their parents are illiterate! And You are worried about the latin studies???
You are collecting signatures to resolve a problem which starts from the moment when a child enters at school?
Well... you can do it. But do You think that after what happend with the FARSE OF TRIAL of Claudius Priscus, a Nova-Roma has any credibility here in Portugal?
In Portugal we still have a mass-media!!!!!!!!!
And now, Cato, Step into the spotlights and defend my right of expression!!!
Shame on You!
I don´t want my name which I appriciate to be connected with nazis. Did I make myself clear? I don´t want to be member of Nova-Roma or any other institution connected to Nova-Roma!
There are people who say that they will go away. I don´t believe. For those who protected a Nazi I have nothing to say. For those who remained silent, I hope you open your eyes before it's too late. And for those who tried to do something, may God protect you...
I just want to express my respect before Tribunus Militaris Octavianus Ir. of the Legio VIIII Hispanica and Censor Germanicus.
I'm out! Ok?

Valete bene!
Gaius Cassius Piso.
Lusitania.
Caius urius Saturninus <c.curius@...> escreveu:
Salvete omnes,

Here is a petition in favour of Classicis teaching in Portugal. At
the website mentioned in the message there's further information and
you can read the petition.

Valete,

Begin forwarded message:

> A PETITION IN FAVOR OF CLASSICS IN PORTUGAL
>
> Dear Colleagues and Friends
>
> Classics in Portugal are by now suffering their greatest attack in
> many
> years. Help us to fight against this cultural narrowness of our
> politics, by signing and sending to others, mainly to the members of
> FIEC, the Petition in Favor of Classical Languages en Portugal:
>
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/classici/petition.html
>
> Thanking you all in advance,
>
> Francisco de Oliveira, Full Professor of Classics and President of
> Euroclassica
>
> NOTA BENE:
> If you want to hear later from us and get a feedback on the outcome of
> this petition, when signing it, please check the box ³Available to
> Petition Author² regarding your email address options.
>
> Si vous désirez recevoir plus tard un message avec l¹information
> sur les
> résultats de cette petition sélectionnez cochez s.v.p. la case
> ³Available to Petition Author² dans le panneau d¹affichage des options
> concernant l¹adresse de votre courier électronique.
>
> Se desejar receber posteriormente da parte dos promotores alguma
> informação acerca dos resultados da petição, por favor, ao entrar na
> página de subscrição, seleccione a opção ³Available to Petition
> Author²
> no item respeitante ao seu endereço de correio electrónico.

Caius Curius Saturninus

Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

"All we need is lightning
With power and might
Striking down the prophets of false
As the moon is rising
Give us the sign
Now let us rise up in awe"

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
gsm: +358-50-3315279
fax: +358-9-8754751

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus is one of our Censors. I do not believe he called
you "an idiot." I believe it is possible you might have misunderstood
communication from him. Regarding the laws of Portugal, I suggest you talk
to someone who specializes in Portugese law.

Good day.

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/9/06, kari piessa <legio_x_equitata@...> wrote:
>
> Salve consul!
>
> A citizen GN. EQVIT MARINUS called me an idiot. I have all this in my PC.
> According to the laws of Portugal he committed a crime " Queixa crime por
> difamação". I want him in the portugues court. Do I need a lawier of Nova
> Roma or can I trust in my own lawier? In any case he must appear in
> portugues court because I already advanced with my legal action. Will he
> appear or do we need an Interpol?
>
> Gaius Cassius Piso
>
> "David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...<tau.athanasios%40gmail.com>>
> escreveu:
>
> Salvete:
>
> Classics are an important academic discipline. I signed the petition, and
> it only took a minute or two.
>
> Valete:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gaius Cassius Piso

"At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law
and justice he is the worst". Aristotle

I am sorry you have resigned your citizenship.

NO ONE in Nova Roma wants a Nazi or Communist or any other
totalitarian ideologies in Nova Roma. These ideologies are ALL
incompatible with Roman virtue, culture and history.

The totalitarian ideologies try to gain power by pushing a nation to
disregard its own laws. Once a people or government have ignored
their own laws enough a totalitarian party has a better chance of
coming to power.

In the 1920's and early 1930's had German government officials
ENFORCED the laws on the books neither the Nazis nor the Communists
would have come to power and 50 million people would not have died
as a result of Hitlers murderous reign .

Totalitarian political parties do not believe in the rule of law
they believe in the rule of might over right.

If you truly want to prevent totalitarian ideologies from spreading
their hate in Nova Roma the best method is the

Rule of law.


"The magistrates are the ministers for the laws, the judges their
interpreters, the rest of us are servants of the law, that we all
may be free." Marcus Tullius Cicero


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

Salve Paetor Tiberi!

Well spoken and researched! I only hope that people who resign don't
unsubscribe right away; I'd hate to see you get writers cramp for
nothing (ie for a person gone off list) but then again we can all
learn a little from your missive!

Regards,

QSP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Galerius Paulinus"
<spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Gaius Cassius Piso
>
> "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from

law

> and justice he is the worst". Aristotle
>
> I am sorry you have resigned your citizenship.
>
> NO ONE in Nova Roma wants a Nazi or Communist or any other
> totalitarian ideologies in Nova Roma. These ideologies are ALL
> incompatible with Roman virtue, culture and history.
>
> The totalitarian ideologies try to gain power by pushing a nation

to

> disregard its own laws. Once a people or government have ignored
> their own laws enough a totalitarian party has a better chance of
> coming to power.
>
> In the 1920's and early 1930's had German government officials
> ENFORCED the laws on the books neither the Nazis nor the

Communists

> would have come to power and 50 million people would not have died
> as a result of Hitlers murderous reign .
>
> Totalitarian political parties do not believe in the rule of law
> they believe in the rule of might over right.
>
> If you truly want to prevent totalitarian ideologies from

spreading

> their hate in Nova Roma the best method is the
>
> Rule of law.
>
>
> "The magistrates are the ministers for the laws, the judges their
> interpreters, the rest of us are servants of the law, that we all
> may be free." Marcus Tullius Cicero
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>

Salve Brian,May I be the first to actually welcome you to Nova Roma.I agree with you that many people do not know the difference between National Socialism and Fascism.As a new provisional citizen you may have missed some of the raging debate as of late.Very interesting.Apparently as far as I can tell you are able to hold whatever beliefs you choose as long as you do not pose a threat to the moral principles of Nova Roma or misrepresent The Nation of Nova Roma as one of our citizens was found to have done.I hope that you decide to stick around for awhile and really get an all around idea what Nova Roma is all about.Congradulations on taking your first step on your journey into this great Nation and what it represents .Appius Galerius Aurelianus.Semper Fidelis!

jrzblackshirt <jrzblackshirt@...> wrote:
Salve!

I am new to this forum and my citizenship is still pending in Nova
Roma. I hope this post does not ruin my opportunity to attain
citizenship.

It should be noted that Fascism and National Socialism are not the
same isms nor do they share the same beliefs.

It could also be said that Rome was a Fascist-like state.

As Nova Roma allows a personal expression in the private practice of
religion it must allow a freedom of political viewpoint. This
includes a viewpoint that some may find distasteful. I do not think
it is the intent of Nova Roma to be censor of ones private political
views.

The actions of the accused as to wrongly speaking for or pubically
representing Nova Roma are another matter and seperate from whatever
their political views may be. These seperate lines seem to be
entangled.

Vale!

Brian Phillips
Citizenship Pending # 10196





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, Agricola, et salvete, omnes bonae voluntatis.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Claudio Guzzo" <claudio.guzzo@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Please, respect him to respect us. He is undergoing a trial for the
> same reason of so many "pagan" in the past: his ideas are not common
> and someone hates him.
>
>
> ATS: As a matter of fact, the trial has been aborted. Therefore, no one
> is on trial. Secondly, it is the business of the magistrates to deal with
> these issues as they see fit; if the tribuni find that there is something
> illegal about the actions of other magistrates, they will intervene, rest
> assured of that.
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Valete!
>> > ACC
>> >
>
> Salve!
>
> Sir, respectfully, you are factually incorrect. This citizen allegedly
> performed an *act* that created a real danger to the State. For any
> citizen to contact another government in any sort of negotiation on
> behalf of the State, and without the authorization of the Senate is a
> plain usurpation of power. Furthermore, if the allegations are true,
> then our Republic, which is incorporated in the United States of
> America, may be in real danger.
>
> ATS: It happens that it is indeed ACTS, not thoughts, which are at issue
> here. If the trial had gone through, that might have been clearer to the
> other ML subscribers. As is, much of what has been said has stemmed not from
> rational thought, but from emotional outbursts. These allegations remain
> unproven, but if true, they are indeed a danger to the very existence of Nova
> Roma; for that matter, if we attract an extremist group from any portion of
> the macroworld political spectrum, our existence is in danger.
>
> Agricola: Furthermore, and with utmost respect, the Nova Roma position on a
> number of issues is clear for all to see. Women are the equals of men,
> violence and force of arms are unacceptable and so forth. Citizens are
> free to feel however they wish on these topics, but for any citizen to
> work to overturn any of these principles would be to undermine some of
> our basic principles. Again, it is not the holding of opinions, but
> the acts that flow from them that would not be acceptable.
>
>
> ATS: Our citizens are supposed to obey our laws, including our
> constitution, which guarantees such rights and shuns violence. If they cannot
> live with that, they don¹t belong here. Acceptance of citizenship implies
> acceptance of our laws, and of acting in accordance with them.
>
> Agricola: Undiluted liberty of thought and act is an admirable notion,
>
> ATS: Indeed it is, but far too many confuse liberty and license in these
> matters. There is a difference, one which, however, may escape the notice of
> some. There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech or action. To
> take one example, your right to smoke ends where the air taken in by someone
> else¹s nose begins, especially if the owner of the other nose happens to be
> asthmatic, allergic, or otherwise sensitive to smoke. In such cases, smoking
> is little different from hitting the recipient of the smoke with a baseball
> bat; both might result in death or hospitalization. There is no right to
> shout Œfire¹ in a crowded theater, and there is no right to link any
> organization with an ideology foreign to it, especially when such linkage is
> made to the government of the organization¹s host country. For example, my
> classical colleagues would not be likely to deem appropriate the efforts of a
> hypothetical member to alter the focus of our classical organizations to, say,
> promoting the cause of mathematics or physics, though there is absolutely
> nothing wrong with either mathematics or physics, or the promotion thereof;
> those disciplines and their promotion, however, simply do not belong in a
> group dedicated to classical languages. A sense of propriety is needed in
> such matters, as elsewhere in life.
>
> Agricola: and to
> live in a world of clear and absolute certainly would make life
> simpler for us all, but I will leave you with the words of Cicero,
> from De Officiis:
>
> "For it often happens, owing to exceptional circumstances, that what
> is accustomed under ordinary circumstances to be considered morally
> wrong is found not to be morally wrong. For the sake of illustration,
> let us assume some particular case that admits of wider application -
> what more atrocious crime can there be than to kill a fellow-man, and
> especially an intimate friend? But if anyone kills a tyrant - be he
> never so intimate a friend - he has not laden his soul with guilt, has
> he? The Roman People, at all events, are not of that opinion; for of
> all glorious deeds they hold such an one to be the most noble."
>
> Optime vale
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola
>
> Optime vale et valete,
>
> Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Tiberia

Who said in part

Pompeia: Uh huh. Some scholars will sail in that boat. Others
will say such, but equally speculate that the inappropriate and/or
partisan use of the Tribune veto carte blanc may have influenced the
unfortunate turn of events of the late republic. Google around a
bit, or perhaps you have, in your capacity as Tribune in 2004. But
one doesn't really have to go that far back in history to find some
rather blistering examples of this, really.

If I am reading this correctly you are of the opinion that in addition
to the misuse of the Senatus Consultum de Re Publica Defendenda
by the last generation of the Roman Republic blame should also be
placed on the " inappropriate and/or partisan use of the Tribune
veto" during the same time frame.

If this is so we are in complete agreement!

Few leading men of this generation were inclined to moderation.
Both sides or all side were out for total victory even if it meant no
longer adhering to the constitutional and legal restrants that had
built Rome into the state she was.

I am of the opinion, and it only an opinion that
Iulius Caesar did, more than many of his generation
to practise what he preached.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:14 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Senatus Consultum de Re Publica Defendenda


--- Salve Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Praetor et Salvete Omnes!

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, "Tiberius Galerius Paulinus"
<spqr753@...> wrote: (in discussion of the Senatus Consultum Ultimum
of Cicero and its legal ramifications)

(snippage)
>
>
>
> "Gaius Julius Caesar and others argued that the consultum could
not
> override the basic laws of the Roman state, that it meant merely
> that the Consuls should do their utmost within the framework of
the
> Roman Constitution to resolve the emergency

Pompeia: And there are those who maintain that Iulius Caesar would
had done well to practise what he preached :>)

The matter of law would
> never be settled, although Cicero would be exiled in 58 because of
> the executions (the exile was ordered by one of his political
> enemies, Publius Clodius Pulcher, and therefore should probably
not
> be seen as a completely valid response)."

Pompeia: Yes. Publius Clodius.... Which leads me in part to my
comment below.....
>
>
> The use of the Senatus consultum ultimum by the last generation of
> the Roman Republic was a major reason for it being the last
> generation of the Roman Republic.

Pompeia: Uh huh. Some scholars will sail in that boat. Others
will say such, but equally speculate that the inappropriate and/or
partisan use of the Tribune veto carte blanc may have influenced the
unfortunate turn of events of the late republic. Google around a
bit, or perhaps you have, in your capacity as Tribune in 2004. But
one doesn't really have to go that far back in history to find some
rather blistering examples of this, really.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Valete
Pompeia
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites,

I'm normally a quiet and patient man, but this legalistic diatribe is
fast becoming synonymous with autoerotic asphyxiation as practiced by
teenagers, and I think it has gone on long enough.

"Facta, non verba."

I don't care what someone thinks. I care little for what they say. I
DO care greatly about what they DO. So, if you're gonna spend all day
debating in a vacuum, then what's the point? This is not the Academy
or the Stoa, is it? This is the Forum.

"Lauda palam, admone secrete."

If there is an issue with a DEED performed, then the censors should
simply deal with it quietly. It is unnecessary for corporate officers
of a company to explain every detail of their actions to the staff.
It is nice when they do, but not required.

The situation of A.C.P. is one in which an ACTION was purported to
have taken place, in violation of company policy. Other than that the
legal department might be called in, immediate at-will termination
would have taken place. I think we're rather forgiving here, since
all this has been "dismissed."

The current furor is untenable to many citizens, and the internal
politics spilling onto the forums is possibly fomenting an exodus
movement among both the new and the old.

Rein it in, folks. Rein it in.

Valete,
Quintus Valerius Callidus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, kari piessa <legio_x_equitata@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve consul!
>
> A citizen GN. EQVIT MARINUS called me an idiot. I have all this in

my PC.

>

M. Lucretius Agricola C. Cassio Pisoni S.P.D.

Only you know what was said, and I cannot say that you are wrong. I
can say that I know Cn. Equitius Marinus and I cannot bring myself to
believe that he is a man who would call anyone an idiot. I am not sure
that you understood him rightly.

I hope you can resolve this issue in a peaceful and satisfactory way.

Optime vale

SALVE CASSI PISO !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, kari piessa <legio_x_equitata@...>
wrote:

> I, Gaius Cassius Piso, citizen of Nova-Roma, in the province of

Hispania, officialy present my resignation of citizenship of Nova-
Roma.

> I had promised to not send any more post on this list, but this

one I have to send.

> Saturninus and some others manifested their anxiety about the

classic studies in Portugal...>>>>

I signed the petition, too. But not from anxiety. As time as NR is a
organization with a definite purpose : " dedicated to the
restoration of classical Roman religion, CULTURE and virtues " I
will sign that petitions. Is our heritage. We must do something for
it.
More, as an individual, so long as, I belive in roman culture and
tradition, I will sign petitions in classic studies favour.

> My wife is a teacher here in Portugal. NOW THE FACT IS: a

majority of portugues students can't read, write or speak portugues
correctly when they enter in university! A greate part of their
parents are illiterate! And You are worried about the latin
studies???>>>

Yes, I'm worried. For that I'm here. To be worried. If I was member
of organizations, let's say, for peace, against wars, to save
whales, I was worried, too.
Sure we live in a great world. With a lot of problems. But these
problems are oversee by the specific organizations. Nova Roma is a
specific organization. One of his purpose is that : to protect the
roman heritage. Include here the latin studies. That is one of our
job. Inter alia.
Look ! In 2003 the nova romans joined and signed the petition to
save Alburnus Maior, the antic roman mines from my country. It was a
small contribution. But add Green Peace, the Academy support and
finaly the Govern support, and the result it was that the process of
destruction was stopped.
In 2003 the Magna Mater Project started. It was a simple ideea. But
in years, with the novi romani dedication, the Project growing up.
Day by day. And we can talk here a lot.

> You are collecting signatures to resolve a problem which starts

from the moment when a child enters at school?

> Well... you can do it. But do You think that after what happend

with the FARSE OF TRIAL of Claudius Priscus, a Nova-Roma has any
credibility here in Portugal?>>>

It wasn't a farse. Your perspective is an individual one. Try to
look from the state perspective and then maybe you will be able to
understand ours magistrates decisions.

> In Portugal we still have a mass-media!!!!!!!!!
> And now, Cato, Step into the spotlights and defend my right of

expression!!!>>>

I'm sorry because you can't understand Cato. He is subtile. When you
are looking to the three, he is able to see all the forest. And
viceversa.

> Shame on You!>>>

For what ? Be serious !

> I don´t want my name which I appriciate to be connected with

nazis.>>>

It seems you are a fan of this quote : "ab uno disce omnes".


Did I make myself clear? I don´t want to be member of Nova-Roma or
any other institution connected to Nova-Roma! >>>

Another : "Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" -
Appius Claudius.

> There are people who say that they will go away. I don´t

believe. For those who protected a Nazi I have nothing to say. For
those who remained silent, I hope you open your eyes before it's too
late. And for those who tried to do something, may God protect you...

You see ? With your resignation you choose the easy way. Try to
think, what was happened if Horati, Manlius Capitolinus,Camillus or
better yours ancestors from Saguntum resigned ?

> I just want to express my respect before Tribunus Militaris

Octavianus Ir. of the Legio VIIII Hispanica and Censor Germanicus.

> I'm out! Ok? >>>

Me, too. Esspecially because they are here.

VALE OPTIME,
IVL SABINVS

Salve Agricola,

M. Lucretius Agricola wrote:

> I can say that I know Cn. Equitius Marinus and I cannot bring myself to
> believe that he is a man who would call anyone an idiot. I am not sure
> that you understood him rightly.

In fact he did not understand me. Thank you for your kind words.

What I did say to this person, in a private note, was that a public post
of resignation has no legal meaning. He will have to write to the
censors at censores@... in order to resign. After several
exchanges along these lines, with him continually insisting that I was
censoring him, I asked him if he was always this stupid, or if he had
practiced.

Vale,

-- Marinus

SALVE GALERI PAULINE!

I liked your frase of Aristotle. I studied a cultural anthopology and the only thing I have to say: I'm out.
Marinus can do whatewer he likes to do to censure my my e-mails ( And there were many of them censured) to hide my convictions from the public.... ( It is a shame because one day he will have to respond ).
I will go on and charge Marinus in the portuguesl court as " queixa crime por difamação ". He will be notified to be presenr in the tribunal., if he doesn't appear, he will be brought to tribunal with handcuffs ( by Interpol ) .
Marinus, this time you met someone who will make you to wish to NEVER BEEN BORN!
Gaius Cassius Piso
.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> escreveu:
Salve Gaius Cassius Piso

"At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law
and justice he is the worst". Aristotle

I am sorry you have resigned your citizenship.

NO ONE in Nova Roma wants a Nazi or Communist or any other
totalitarian ideologies in Nova Roma. These ideologies are ALL
incompatible with Roman virtue, culture and history.

The totalitarian ideologies try to gain power by pushing a nation to
disregard its own laws. Once a people or government have ignored
their own laws enough a totalitarian party has a better chance of
coming to power.

In the 1920's and early 1930's had German government officials
ENFORCED the laws on the books neither the Nazis nor the Communists
would have come to power and 50 million people would not have died
as a result of Hitlers murderous reign .

Totalitarian political parties do not believe in the rule of law
they believe in the rule of might over right.

If you truly want to prevent totalitarian ideologies from spreading
their hate in Nova Roma the best method is the

Rule of law.

"The magistrates are the ministers for the laws, the judges their
interpreters, the rest of us are servants of the law, that we all
may be free." Marcus Tullius Cicero

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor





__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Piso.

Just a few small points of interest.

Interpol is not an agency that arrests people. It only coordinates
activities and the exchange of information between police agencies.

Also, for an arrest to occur on US soil a US local police agency or
empowered federal authority would have execute the arrest. That can
only occur when an international warrant is issued and judged
suitable for execution by the police or federal agency (they don't
want to be sued for false arrest). Once that is done a US court would
have to recognize the validity of that warrant as one suitable for
extradition. None of this will happen in this case. Period. end of
story.

No US court would ever extradite a US citizen for defamation, which
is a civil not criminal matter in the US. Also extradition is a very
very costly affair, and someone has to pay for airfares, cost of
escort officers etc. Given the circumstances I doubt your local
police agency is willing to even try, assuming they collectively went
mad and tried any of this, to see its budget sucked dry.

Consequently Marinus Censor will not be put in handcuffs, stuffed
into a plane and flown to Portugal.

I only mention this any of this so you save yourself a lot of time
and effort, and don't spend fruitless months and years at the airport
waiting for him to arrive.

Vale
Cn Iulius Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, kari piessa <legio_x_equitata@...>
wrote:

>
> SALVE GALERI PAULINE!
>
> I liked your frase of Aristotle. I studied a cultural anthopology

and the only thing I have to say: I'm out.

> Marinus can do whatewer he likes to do to censure my my e-mails (

And there were many of them censured) to hide my convictions from
the public.... ( It is a shame because one day he will have to
respond ).

> I will go on and charge Marinus in the portuguesl court as "

queixa crime por difamação ". He will be notified to be presenr in
the tribunal., if he doesn't appear, he will be brought to tribunal
with handcuffs ( by Interpol ) .

> Marinus, this time you met someone who will make you to wish to

NEVER BEEN BORN!

> Gaius Cassius Piso

Salve Piso.

To be absolutely accurate, before someone corrects me, two or three
US states still have criminal defamation on their books as an
offence. The test of whether they are constitutional is that there be
actual malice and either a knowledge or reckless disregard for its
truth or falsity.

As Marinus Censor has stated that he simply asked you whether you
were actually stupid or had just practised to achieve that state,
then that was a question not a statement. That question is not
malicious and he was actually asking what the truth of the matter
was, thus not reckless or knowingly false.

Finally I don't think the US state Marinus Censor resides in has
criminal defamation on its statute books anymore, so your application
to extradite him would...fail.

Fascinating place Nova Roma, one learns so much.

Vale
Cn. Iulius Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Piso.
>
> Just a few small points of interest.

Salve Ganae Iuli Caesar,

Well even if this sort of fairy tale thing was remotely possible, I
think police agencies around the world would hardly make it a high
priority given the troubles on their plates from cystal meth to
terrorist plots.

Regards,

QSP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Piso.
>
> To be absolutely accurate, before someone corrects me, two or

three

> US states still have criminal defamation on their books as an
> offence. The test of whether they are constitutional is that there

be

> actual malice and either a knowledge or reckless disregard for its
> truth or falsity.
>
> As Marinus Censor has stated that he simply asked you whether you
> were actually stupid or had just practised to achieve that state,
> then that was a question not a statement. That question is not
> malicious and he was actually asking what the truth of the matter
> was, thus not reckless or knowingly false.
>
> Finally I don't think the US state Marinus Censor resides in has
> criminal defamation on its statute books anymore, so your

application

> to extradite him would...fail.
>
> Fascinating place Nova Roma, one learns so much.
>
> Vale
> Cn. Iulius Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
> <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Piso.
> >
> > Just a few small points of interest.
>