P. Memmius Albucius Propr. Sabino omnibusque s.d.

We wrote:

(..)

> You have done a fine remark, amice. Your point of view is correct.
> It seems is a mistake there. The inscription from Epigraphic
> Datenbank, and I guess that is the correct one, said that Traian

was in his 5th trib. power and in his 4th. consulate.

So the inscription of your 4th picture(in http://www.dacia-
novaroma.org/drobeta.htm) is dated on 101 a.d., before the autumn.

>(..) the inscription about the Roman Path striked in stone ( Tabula
>Traiana ) is different :
> From Epigraphic Datenbank :

> "Imp(erator) Caesar divi Nervae f(ilius) / Nerva Traianus Aug

(ustus)

> Germ(anicus) / pontif(ex) maximus trib(unicia) pot(estate) IIII /
> pater patriae co(n)s(ul) III / montibus excisi[s] anco[ni]bus /
> sublat[i]s via[m r]e[fecit]"

The last translated part of the inscription would then be :
« (Traian...) having notched the mountains and subdued the waters,
made a road.»
(I guess that it is the via along the Danube)

> So the ancient roman road was done/finished between 100 - 101 AD.

We may be more precise and say year 100 a.d..

Thanks for the other interesting informations, Aedile.

Vale(-te),


P. Memmius Albucius
Legatus Lugd. Galliae

Cato A. Apollonio sal.

Corde, it seems to me that your final comments might be the crux of
the matter: the privileged classes - by which I mean those who held
power, whether patrician {hooray!) or plebeian (grumble) - perhaps
only cared when they were humiliated in a public setting; they were
probably accustomed to the bickering and harsh behaviour in the Senate
as the inevitable clashing of strong-willed men of power. This would
be very different from the Naevius case wherein the Metelli were made
the butt of his rather (as you describe) confusing joke in front of a
theatre full of the Great Unwashed. The "mild" response of the
Metelli - that they were intent on giving Naevius a "good kick" -
could actually be interpreted as their public warning that they
intended to take strong action against him; sort of like someone
promising to give someone else a "real surprise", then the surprise
turning out to be quite nasty. If I remember correctly, even under
the earliest weight of the imperial yoke, Roman society abounded with
both crude and eloquent attacks on the great personages of the time; I
think Augustus and Tiberius (at least during the first third of his
reign) were quite "tolerant" of being publicly made fun of by the wits
of the day as a mark of a "free" society - the last vestiges of the
dissolved Republic.

It is a strange dichotomy that in a society where dignitas and
gravitas were held so highly, you can find the beauty and eloquence -
even the ponderous sonorance - of the great speeches in the Senate
House and the fora side by side with the violence and gutter-speak of
political and social antagonisms.

Vale bene,

Cato

SALVE OPTIME MEMMI ALBUCI !

"P.Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
Thanks for the other interesting informations, Aedile.>>>





As usual is a honour and a really pleasure to talk with you.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS




NOVA ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius




__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, Q. Suetoni Pauline, et salvete, quirites, socii, peregrinique bonae
> voluntatis.
>
>
>
> Salve A. Tullia Scholastica,
>
> I'll check these sites out and look foward to getting some gear.
> Thank you for your help and suggestions!
>
> ATS: Nihil est. Ad te privatim mittam methodos tunicarum Romanarum
> faciendarum. Tunc uxor tua tibi tunicam facere potest.
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque
>>> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > C. Equitius Cato Q. Seutonio Paulino quiritibusque S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve et salvete.
>>> > >
>>> > > On a similiar note: is it appropriate for *any* Roman citizen to
> wear
>>> > > the kit of a Roman soldier? In other words, can I supplement
> my toga
>>> > > with military dress?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Sure. Some people reenact as both soldiers and
> civilians...but
>>> > > preferably you should link up with one of the legiones (maybe
> XXIV in
>>> > > Philadelphia) so that everything is appropriate for a given
> period and that
>>> > > you aren¹t wearing a helmet from the third century AD and a
> segmentata from
>>> > > rather earlier. Styles changed over time. I recommend
> consulting the Legio
>>> > > XX and XXIV websites...
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale et valete,
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete,
>>> > >
>>> > > Scholastica
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%
> 40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > > "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
>>> > > Kelly)" <mjk@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salvete omnes,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I have been planning to purchase some Roman outfits but alas
> the
>>>>> > >> > quest is quite frustrating.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I would like to buy complete outfits in one set; for example a
>>>>> > >> > complete legionaires outfit all together with the tunic,
> lorca,
>>>>> > >> > belt, helmet, sandals, sword, scabbard and all in one sort of
>>>>> > >> > package put together by somone who knows what he or she is
> doing
>>>>> > >> > since it is easy to forget certain items and annoying to hunt
>>>>> > >> > through list after list as well as the costs of shipping 20
> or more
>>>>> > >> > things scattered at different sites.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I do not usually buy china and pottery either as merchants
> like
>>>>> > >> > selling items piece by piece. Give it all from plates to
> goblets in
>>>>> > >> > a dinner set for 6 in one package or I don't bother buying.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Anyway if any citizens would have information on where to buy
> Roman
>>>>> > >> > outfits in sets, I would sure appreciate if you let me know
> where.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Regards,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, T. Artoria Marcella, et salvete, quirites, socii, peregrinique bonae
> voluntatis.
>
>
>
> Salve Pompeia et salvete omnes,
>
>> >This has been very unsettling to say the least, the entire matter. I
>> >will be sorry if you go, but I do not know what manner of vow or
>> >commitment you feel you have made to your patron deities.
>
> My vow was not to my patron deities and, if it had been, I would have resigned
> my citizenship by now. Your point about the trial being aborted is an
> excellent one and removes all sense of shame, for which I thank you. I vowed
> on my honor that if ten Nova Roma citizens of good repute judged ACP to be
> innocent of his alleged crimes, I would leave. That never happened.
>
> My commitment to the gods, especially to my patron gods, is very strong. That
> commitment, and my hope to continue to work toward realizing Nova Roma's
> goals, are why I am staying a citizen. There is much work to be done, both
> now and in the years to come.
>
> Besides, where else can I hope to learn classical Latin by long-term exposure?
>
> ATS: Well, the Sodalitas Latinitatis may be of some assistance, though we
> don¹t provide instruction per se. However, the Academia Thules DOES, and we
> anticipate a new series of courses starting in the Fall, tentatively including
> introductory and intermediate Latin via traditional and assimilation methods
> (different courses), a combined introductory and intermediate course via
> assimilation method, and a more advanced one as well. I should, however,
> point out that active effort is required for all of the above; learning will
> not occur by mere absorption alone. My students will testify that a lot of
> work is involved even in the traditional elementary Latin course, and I can
> assure you that the Assimil courses require work as well...but if you do the
> work, you will learn Latin.
>
> Vale et valete,
> Artoria
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe that the British People have a lot of Roman Ancestry within
them. Many writers have said this. What do we think of this.?

Manius

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies nefastus et
fastus est.

"The third day comes, when you, Thyone of Dodona,
Stand with the Hyades on the brow of Agenor's Bull.
It's the day, Tiber, when you send the sweepings of Vesta's
Shrine down the Tuscan waters, to the sea." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"Seirios was scorching the Minoan Islands from the sky, and the people
could find no permanent cure for the trouble till Hekatos [Apollon]
put it in their heads to send for Aristaios. So, as his father's
command, Aristaios assembled the Parrhasian tribe, who are descendants
of Lykaon, left Phthia, and settled in Keos. He raised a great altar
to Zeus Ikmaios (the Rain-God) and made ritual offerings in the hills
to the Dog-star and to Zeus Kronides himself. In response, Zeus gave
his orders - and the Etesiai refresh the earth for forty days. The
priests of Keos still make yearly sacrifice before the rising of the
Dog." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 2.518

"Their souls passed beneath the earth and went down into the house of
Hades; but their bones, when the skin is rotted about them, crumble
away on the dark earth under parching Seirios." - Hesiod, The Shield
of Heracles 139

"Wet your lungs with wine: the dogstar, Seirios, is coming round, the
season is harsh, everything is thirsty under the heat, the cicada
sings sweetly from the leaves .. the artichoke is in flower; now are
women most pesilential, but men are feeble, since Sirios parches their
heads and knees." - Greek Lyric I Alcaeus, Fragment 347

"From the ocean-verge upsprings Helios (the sun) in glory, flashing
fire far over earth - fire, when beside his radiant chariot-team races
the red star Seirios, scatterer if woefullest diseases over men." -
Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 8.30

Today is marked "Q.ST.D.", which stands for "Quando Stercus Delatum".
The day was considered nefastus until the temple of Vesta had been
cleaned of the accumulated refuse from the past week's celebrations,
and was considered fastus afterwards. This is the final day of the
public celebrations in honor of the goddess Vesta, and from this point
on marriages were considered lucky.

On this day the Dog Star, Sirius, rises, bringing with it the
scorching heat of summer. The association of Sirius with a celestial
dog has been consistent throughout the classical world; even in remote
China, the star was identified as a heavenly wolf. In ancient Chaldea
(present day Iraq) the star was known as the "Dog Star that Leads," or
it was called the "Star of the Dog." In Assyria, it was said to be the
"Dog of the Sun." In still older Akkadia, it was named the "Dog Star
of the Sun."

In Greek times Aratus referred to Canis Major as the guard-dog of
Orion, following on the heels of its master, and standing on its hind
legs with Sirius carried in its jaws. Manilius called it the "dog with
the blazing face." Canis Major (large dog) seems to cross the sky in
pursuit of the hare, represented by the constellation Lepus under
Orion's feet. The concept of the mind slaying the real can be seen in
the tales which relate the dog as the hunter and killer — the hound
from hell.

Eratosthenes said that the constellation represented Laelaps, a dog so
swift that no prey could escape it. Laelaps had a long list of owners.
One story says it is the dog given by Zeus to Europa, whose son Minos,
King of Crete passed it on to Procris, daughter of Cephalus. The dog
was presented to Procris along with a javelin that could never miss.
Ironically Cephalus accidentally killed her with it while out hunting.
Cephalus inherited the dog, and took it with him to Thebes, north of
Athens, where a vicious fox was ravaging the countryside. The fox was
so swift that it was destined never to be caught~yet Laelaps the hound
was destined to catch whatever it pursued. Off they went, almost
faster than the eye could follow, the inescapable dog in pursuit of
the uncatchable fox. At one moment the dog would seem to have its prey
within grasp, but could only close its jaws on thin air as the fox
raced ahead of it again. There could be no resolution of such a
paradox, so Zeus turned them both to stone and the dog he placed in
the sky without the fox.

Ancient Egyptians called Sirius the 'Dog Star', after their god
Osiris, whose head in pictograms resembled that of a dog. In Egypt,
Sirius shines for most of the summer, and since it is such a bright
star, the Egyptians actually believed that the additional light from
this nearby star was responsible for the summer heat. This of course
is not true. However the origin of the phrase 'the dog days of summer'
comes from this ancient belief.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Apollonius Rhodius, Quintus Smyrnaeus, Hesiod,
http://www.crystalinks.com/sirius.html

EDICTVM VII PROPRAETORIS PANNONIAE

Edictum VII Propraetoris Cn. Cornelii Lentuli de Websitu Temporario Provinciae Pannoniae:

Edictum VII of Propraetor Cn. Cornelius Lentulus about the Temporary Provincial Website of Pannonia:



I. - I hereby establish the following website to be the Temporary Provincial Website of Pannonia:

www.nrpannonia.iweb.hu

and with that the present official website

www.geocities.com/alexprobus/

is replaced.

II. - The Temporary Provincial Website will be the provincial website of Pannonia until the ordinary one will reach completion.

III. - This Edictum becomes effective immediately.



Given the 15th of June, MMDCCLIX. AUC

Datum est ante diem XVII Kal. Quinctiles C. Fabio Buteone Poompeja Minucia Strabone consulibus


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
PROPRAETOR PANNONIAE




Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cato,

> On this day the Dog Star, Sirius, rises, bringing with it the
> scorching heat of summer.

While the helical rise of Sirius (where the star rises just ahead of sunrise)
began in mid-June during the time of the middle republic, it won't occur
until mid-August this year. Precession of the equinoxes does this.

In addition to what you mentioned concerning Egyptian beliefs regarding
Sirius, I'll add that they used the helical rise of Sirius as an indicator
that the annual innundation of the Nile was about to begin. The snow-pack on
the mountains of Ethiopia would be melting away, flooding down the mountain
cataracts to eventually fill the White Nile to flood stage. This innundation
moved northward, eventually flooding the entire Nile valley and providing the
natural irrigation which was vital to Egypt's agriculture.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salve Mani!

This is an interesting question. All the British peoples are all greatly mixed in terms of descent. The Gaels in Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man seem to have a significant Norse influence as well as the Celtic while the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons (who I think I have to include as British in this context) have a corresponding Roman element to their make up. While most people here are willing to accept Celtic and Teutonic elements in our racial make up the Latin element is more problematic and often overlooked. I think this is mostly a result of a tabloid view of history. I can still remember an appalling school project on Boadicea where the Warrior Queen was portrayed running over Romans in her chariot while waving a Union Flag over her head! Luckily there were no sound effects or she might have been singing 'Land of Hope and Glory'! Another factor is of course politics. After the accession of the House of Hannover to the English throne a lot was made of
consanguinity between the English and German peoples. The higher aristocracy was also shared. There were numerous cases of cousins facing each other on different sides in the First World War and ex-students of Eton and Rugby schools died fighting for the Kaiser. A side effect of being Teutonic is not being Latin.

In the area where I live, Dorset, a great deal is still made of the Battle of Maiden Castle and the defeat of the Durotriges tribe. Many local Pagans in particular relate strongly to this and are suspicious of anything Roman and often downright hostile. This is understandable I suppose from a Celtic perspective but the area was one of the most highly populated areas of Roman Britain and contains loads of archaeology which shows how Romanised the area was. I'm told there are even some church records dating nearly to the Norman Conquest which seem to show that a dialect of Latin was still being spoken here six centuries after the Legions left.

My own feeling is that populations do not really change that much. Invaders come and go and aristocracies change but the mass of the people remain largely the same. Inevitably there is intermarriage and allcomers leave their traces in the bloodlines. It's interesting to read old accounts of big fair haired Celts and Saxons and then to look around you in modern Britain and see all the small tawny haired people with not a bushy moustache or a scramasax in sight. I guess it must differ from area to area but the truth is that while the Romans may not have been here for as long a period as the Celts, or even the Saxons, four centuries is quite long enough to spread plenty of love around!

And I haven't even started on Brutus, the grandson of Aeneas, ancestor of the British people who gave his name to the whole island..........

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

Jonothon Boulter <synarc2000@...> wrote:
I believe that the British People have a lot of Roman Ancestry within
them. Many writers have said this. What do we think of this.?

Manius






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Here goes the Brazilian Anthem, in Latin. ;-)

I.
Audierunt Ypirangae ripae placida
Heroicae gentis validum clamorem,
Solisque libertatis flammae fulgidae
Sparsere Patria in caelos tum fulgorem.

Pignus vero aequalitatis
Possidere si potuimus brachio forti,
Almo gremio en libertatis,
Audens sese offert ipsi pectus morti!

O cara Patria,
Amoris atria,
Salve! Salve!

Brasilia, somnium tensum, flamma vivida,
Amorem ferens spemque ad orbis claustrum,
Si pulchri caeli alacritate limpida,
Splendescit almum, fulgens, Crucis plaustrum.

Ex propria gigas positus natura,
Impavida, fortisque, ingensque moles,
Te magnam praevidebunt jam futura.

Tellus dilecta,
Inter similia
Arva, Brasilia,
Es Patria electa!

Natorum parens alma es inter lilia,
Patria cara,
Brasilia!

II.
In cunis semper strata mire splendidis,
Sonante mari, caeli albo profundi,
Effulges, o Brasilia, flos Americae,
A sole irradiata Novi Mundi!

Ceterisque in orbi plagis
Tui rident agri florum ditiores;
"Tenent silvae en vitam magis,
Magis tenet tuo sinu vita amores."

O cara Patria,
Amoris atria,
Salve! Salve!

Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
Ventura pax decusque superatum.

Si vero tollis Themis clavam fortem,
Non filios tuos videbis vacillantes,
Aut, in amando te, timentes mortem.

Tellus dilecta,
Inter similia
Arva, Brasilia,
Es Patria electa!

Natorum parens alma es inter lilia,
Patria cara,
Brasilia!


Vale,

Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
Brasilia Provincia

Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
Ventura pax decusque superatum.
- Hymnus Brasiliensis


_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of A. Tullia Scholastica
Sent: sábado, 10 de junho de 2006 05:13
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving

> Salve, D. Valeri Thomas Brune, et salvete, omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica,
>
>> > ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
>> > accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in
> that
>> > capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening
> statements
>> > on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call

this

>> > National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these

accusations

> had
>> > been proven.
>
> I know quite well how Nazi feelings can jeopardize the development of a
> micronational society, and also throw what once was an harmonious

community

> into an anxious quarrel.
>
> ATS: We have hitherto been spared such things, but it seems that we have
> attracted a rather undesirable element. Their attitudes are against our

laws,

> and they are incompatible with Nova Roma.
>
>
>
> Here in Brazil I am citizen to a micronation which
> brings its ideals from the II German Empire, and we have already seen some
> individuals who sought to re-enact elements from Hitlerism within the
> political-partidary scene. It is something that we have learned how to
> combat. However, we must be always aware of the fact that the Law allows
> everyone to think as they will, and forbiding someone of doing it might be
> enormously harmful to the whole Juridical Order of the State.
>
> ATS: In this case, as has been noted earlier, actions endangering the
> welfare and existence of Nova Roma were said to have been carried out by

this

> citizen. That is considerably more than thinking, but thinking

incompatible

> with the laws of a voluntary organization is thinking which does not

belong in

> said organization.
>
>> > Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one of
>> > the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe to
> the
>> > NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from
> magistrates
>> > and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
>> > everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and
> reasoned
>> > tone while refraining from attacking others.
>
> Having outbreaks of temper - believe me - is a compulsory degree to all
> those who are portuguese-speaking micronationalists, specially Brazilians.
>
> ATS: One must learn to control one¹s temper and one¹s emotions. Not only
> do fights result from such displays, but so, too, do heart attacks and
> strokes.
>
> Since spying, hacking, "micro-terrorism", personal verbal attacks and
> international conflicts are here things as usual as the daily change of

our

> underware, we have thus become quite acquainted to ill-tempered situations

-

> unfortunately. Happily, this panorama is exactly what my lusophone
> micronation and other Govts. are trying to change.
>
>> > ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
>> > office about your name...
>
> Well... that's nice - I think. In fact, I really had quite a debate with

A.

> Horatius Severus (who was helping me through the process) about it. ;-)
>
> ATS: AH Severus is your contact person, or assigned scriba; he handles
> Portuguese speakers. However, before he contacted you, we discussed your
> name. There are three or four Latinists in the censor¹s office who deal

with

> such matters. When we are satisfied with the correctness of a name, we

pass

> it on to the scriba for notification; if, however, we are unsatisfied, and
> cannot use the proposed name, it goes back to the prospective citizen for
> amendment, also via the scriba. We don¹t accept geographical names which
> denote conquest, or which are too broad, or names which signify adoption,

or

> are honorific...or beyond the period of the early Empire unless they are
> Latinizations of personal or geographic names. These are more difficult to
> find in our references, which is why yours took a bit longer than some

others.

>
>> > ATS: This is quite pretty...
>
> Someone translated the Brazilian National Anthem into Latin, and I found
> that work at Orkut. I can send you the complete text, if you want.
>
>
> ATS: yes, I¹d like to see that. Gratias.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
> Brasilia Provincia
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
> - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf
> Of A. Tullia Scholastica
> Sent: sexta-feira, 9 de junho de 2006 03:38
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving
>
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
>> > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sir,
>> >
>> > About the scandal you've mentioned, I could only aprehend, so far, that

it

>> > has something to do with national-socialist manifestations whithin Nova
>> > Roma, but I'll be soon looking for related messafes in the archives of

our

>> > mailgroup. In the meanwhile, I'd be glad if you could make me a short
> report
>> > about the case.
>> >
>> > ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
>> > accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in
> that
>> > capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening
> statements
>> > on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call

this

>> > National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these

accusations

> had
>> > been proven.
>> >
>> > Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one of
>> > the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe to
> the
>> > NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from
> magistrates
>> > and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
>> > everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and
> reasoned
>> > tone while refraining from attacking others.
>> >
>> > Thank you for the wellcoming answer, by the way. ;-)
>> >
>> > ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
>> > office about your name...
>> >
>> > Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
>> > Brasilia Provincia
>> >
>> > Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
>> > Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
>> > En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
>> > Ventura pax decusque superatum.
>> > - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>> >
>> > ATS: This is quite pretty...
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete,
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes


No início do mês de julho (7, 8 e 9), a Legio VIIII Hispana da Provincia Hispania Novae Romae vai se encontrar na cidade portuguesa Alter do Chão; eu irei para o referido encontro com parte de meu Consilium, e teria muito prazer em conhecer alguns dos cidadãos novo-romanos que vivem em Portugal".

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"At the beginning of the month of July (7,8 and 9) the Legio VIIII Hispana of Provincia Hispania Novae Romae do will meet in the portuguese town Alter do Chao and to the above mentioned meeting I will come with part of my Consilium, it would very pleasing for me to be able to know some of the novoroman citizens that live in Portugal."


Valete bene

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GEM
CAPVT OFFICINA APPROBATIONVM
ACCENSVS CONSVL PMS
NOVA ROMA



www.nrhispania
www.legioviiii.es



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!

I studied a lot of 20th century history in my time and am well aware
that there were so many other regimes that outdid the nazis at times
as far as the death count goes.

I see though one big difference. With the communist regimes who were
more into an equal distribution of wealth philosophy, they included
all mankind in their aspirations and did not have a racial agenda.
Make the rich pay so the government can become fat cats applied to
everyone regardless of race or culture. Tow the line, re-educate
yourself and you'd survive and continue on.

The nazis, on the other hand had their racial superman agenda. All
peoples non Aryan were total low life and the Jews in particular
WERE SINGLED OUT FOR TOTAL EXTERMINATION. That is, they could not
collaborate, tow the party line, scream Heil Hitler, work for the
party, shut their mouths and co-operate. There was absolutely
NOTHING they could do to live on as human beings. Gays, gypsies and
Slaves feared no better. To teach a Slav to read road signs and
count to 100 was all the education necessary as one nazi leader said.

Finally, as mentioned by Senator Maximus, the Romans were a very
rough bunch of boys who would certainly have war crimes tribunals on
their heels today but again all peoles of the empire could carry on
with their daily lives, collaborate, keep their jobs and businesses
and even become citizens and negros, celts, Jews etc. were not
singled out for ethnic cleansing or death unless they rebelled
against Rome.


I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist or
even a fundementalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
NR than the nazis who are blatently honest about how they stand with
people of different races or ethnicity.


Regards,

QSP

Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part

"I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist or
even a fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
NR than the Nazis who are blatantly honest about how they stand with
people of different races or ethnicity."

As the numbers below illustrate if you live under ANY Totalitarian
regime death comes in the millions!!

If one is shot or gassed by the Nazi SS or murdered by the Soviet
Checka/NKVD/KGB

Dead is Dead

"fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
NR"

Well you had better get offended because if they win you lose. The
fundamentalist Muslims have something the Nazi Germans never had

NUMBERS one billion and growing.

A Jewish person or a Christian may well survive in a world run by
the fundamentalist Muslim. Members of the Religo never.

To paraphrase Forest Gump

Totalitarian is as Totalitarian does.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulius
*********************************************************************
DEATH BY GOVERNMENT
By R.J. Rummel
New Brunswick, N.J.:
Transaction Publishers, 1994.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse
IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia
















--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
(Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> I studied a lot of 20th century history in my time and am well

aware

> that there were so many other regimes that outdid the nazis at

times

> as far as the death count goes.
>
> I see though one big difference. With the communist regimes who

were

> more into an equal distribution of wealth philosophy, they

included

> all mankind in their aspirations and did not have a racial agenda.
> Make the rich pay so the government can become fat cats applied to
> everyone regardless of race or culture. Tow the line, re-educate
> yourself and you'd survive and continue on.
>
> The nazis, on the other hand had their racial superman agenda. All
> peoples non Aryan were total low life and the Jews in particular
> WERE SINGLED OUT FOR TOTAL EXTERMINATION. That is, they could not
> collaborate, tow the party line, scream Heil Hitler, work for the
> party, shut their mouths and co-operate. There was absolutely
> NOTHING they could do to live on as human beings. Gays, gypsies

and

> Slaves feared no better. To teach a Slav to read road signs and
> count to 100 was all the education necessary as one nazi leader

said.

>
> Finally, as mentioned by Senator Maximus, the Romans were a very
> rough bunch of boys who would certainly have war crimes tribunals

on

> their heels today but again all peoles of the empire could carry

on

> with their daily lives, collaborate, keep their jobs and

businesses

> and even become citizens and negros, celts, Jews etc. were not
> singled out for ethnic cleansing or death unless they rebelled
> against Rome.
>
>
> I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist or
> even a fundementalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people

of

> NR than the nazis who are blatently honest about how they stand

with

> people of different races or ethnicity.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>

C. Equitius Cato Cn. Equitio Marino sal.

Censor, you wrote:

"While the helical rise of Sirius (where the star rises just ahead of
sunrise)
began in mid-June during the time of the middle republic, it won't occur
until mid-August this year. Precession of the equinoxes does this."

And from whom did these equinoxes get permission to do so? I think
this is a matter for the College of Pontiffs. Hmph.

Vale bene,

Cato

Salue, Curiate
Teria muito prazer em encontrar cidadãos da Nova Roma in Portugal, mas Alter do Chão fica muito fora dos meus planos para esses dias. Quando alguém quiser vir a Lisboa, podemos combinar qualquer coisa. Contactem-me.
---------------------------------------------
I would like very much to meet citizens of Nova Roma in Portugal, but Alter do Chão is too far away from my affairs during those days. If someone wants to come to Lisbon, we can arrange something. Contact me.

Valete

Appius Iulius Priscus

M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes

No início do mês de julho (7, 8 e 9), a Legio VIIII Hispana da Provincia Hispania Novae Romae vai se encontrar na cidade portuguesa Alter do Chão; eu irei para o referido encontro com parte de meu Consilium, e teria muito prazer em conhecer alguns dos cidadãos novo-romanos que vivem em Portugal".

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"At the beginning of the month of July (7,8 and 9) the Legio VIIII Hispana of Provincia Hispania Novae Romae do will meet in the portuguese town Alter do Chao and to the above mentioned meeting I will come with part of my Consilium, it would very pleasing for me to be able to know some of the novoroman citizens that live in Portugal."

Valete bene

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GEM
CAPVT OFFICINA APPROBATIONVM
ACCENSVS CONSVL PMS
NOVA ROMA

www.nrhispania
www.legioviiii.es

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et salvete,

I have been reading some laws and documents about citizenship and its 90-day
testing period, and I thus have some notes to make about it.

I fully understand and recognize the necessity of having all newly arrived
cives "tested" in their willingness to effectively establish a productive
neo-roman citizenship. The State must keep to itself those who really want
to work, and discard those who are unable to fulfill the demandings of
micronational - we may say - labouring.

However, I believe that laws that restrict too much the range of action of
those under test might turn them inactive within Nova Roma, or even
discourage them of staying in the country - three months are, in
micronational terms, a really long time, where many things can happen.

Maybe a law should be proposed, through which the Comitia Centuriata or the
Senate would be enabled to allow particular testing citizens to exert
activities that should only be permitted after the granting of full
citizenship (id est, voting, etc.). Obviously, there should exist some
criteria to evaluate if the testing petitioner deserves being granted those
privileges, such as activity, institutional participation and/or production.

Or, perhaps, any of those institutions would be able to grant the
citizenship before the end of that 90-days period, submitting anticipatedly
the testing citizen to the examination established on the Lex Equitia de
Tirocinio Civium Novorum

The fact is that if someone who's still through the 90-days period is workig
and contributing for the improvement of the society, it would be fair enough
that this person should be able do take part in some acts or procedures that
only full citizens have the right to participate.

Vale,

Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
Brasilia Provincia

Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
Ventura pax decusque superatum.
- Hymnus Brasiliensis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Amice,

Ultimately, even with such a take over a pagan still has the option
of "convert or die". The Jews, gays and gypsies could not covert,
join the party or sing the Horst Wessel Lied to save themselves;
just the option to die.

Regards,

QSP



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Galerius Paulinus"
<spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part
>
> "I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist or
> even a fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
> NR than the Nazis who are blatantly honest about how they stand

with

> people of different races or ethnicity."
>
> As the numbers below illustrate if you live under ANY Totalitarian
> regime death comes in the millions!!
>
> If one is shot or gassed by the Nazi SS or murdered by the Soviet
> Checka/NKVD/KGB
>
> Dead is Dead
>
> "fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
> NR"
>
> Well you had better get offended because if they win you lose. The
> fundamentalist Muslims have something the Nazi Germans never had
>
> NUMBERS one billion and growing.
>
> A Jewish person or a Christian may well survive in a world run by
> the fundamentalist Muslim. Members of the Religo never.
>
> To paraphrase Forest Gump
>
> Totalitarian is as Totalitarian does.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulius
>

*********************************************************************

> DEATH BY GOVERNMENT
> By R.J. Rummel
> New Brunswick, N.J.:
> Transaction Publishers, 1994.
> http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
>
> 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
> 4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
> 5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
> 6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
> 7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
> III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
> 8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
> 9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
> 10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
> 11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
> 12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
> 13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
> 14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse
> IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
> 15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
> 16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
> 17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
> (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
> > I studied a lot of 20th century history in my time and am well
> aware
> > that there were so many other regimes that outdid the nazis at
> times
> > as far as the death count goes.
> >
> > I see though one big difference. With the communist regimes who
> were
> > more into an equal distribution of wealth philosophy, they
> included
> > all mankind in their aspirations and did not have a racial

agenda.

> > Make the rich pay so the government can become fat cats applied

to

> > everyone regardless of race or culture. Tow the line, re-educate
> > yourself and you'd survive and continue on.
> >
> > The nazis, on the other hand had their racial superman agenda.

All

> > peoples non Aryan were total low life and the Jews in particular
> > WERE SINGLED OUT FOR TOTAL EXTERMINATION. That is, they could

not

> > collaborate, tow the party line, scream Heil Hitler, work for

the

> > party, shut their mouths and co-operate. There was absolutely
> > NOTHING they could do to live on as human beings. Gays, gypsies
> and
> > Slaves feared no better. To teach a Slav to read road signs and
> > count to 100 was all the education necessary as one nazi leader
> said.
> >
> > Finally, as mentioned by Senator Maximus, the Romans were a very
> > rough bunch of boys who would certainly have war crimes

tribunals

> on
> > their heels today but again all peoles of the empire could carry
> on
> > with their daily lives, collaborate, keep their jobs and
> businesses
> > and even become citizens and negros, celts, Jews etc. were not
> > singled out for ethnic cleansing or death unless they rebelled
> > against Rome.
> >
> >
> > I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist

or

> > even a fundementalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people
> of
> > NR than the nazis who are blatently honest about how they stand
> with
> > people of different races or ethnicity.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > QSP
> >
>

Salve Cato,

gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

[about precession of the equinoxes]

> And from whom did these equinoxes get permission to do so?

I'm not sure, but it may be the same source that gave Vesuvius permission to
erupt.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salvete,

Pontiffs follow signs. The lowest pontiff in the
college of pontiffs, contrary to the inertia of
western scholarship following a millennia of Roman
Catholic self-serving mis-interpretation of the
office, was the pontifex maximos who had to establish
the calendar of the Roman year as dictated by his
pontifical superiors, the flamen maiors. In essence,
pontifex maximus was the secretary of the college of
pontiffs -- not its supreme head. So, flamines consult
astronomers as to the setting of dates. That is why
Romans had periodic calendar reform (besides
politically naming months after various Caesars).



--- gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

> C. Equitius Cato Cn. Equitio Marino sal.
>
> Censor, you wrote:
>
> "While the helical rise of Sirius (where the star
> rises just ahead of
> sunrise)
> began in mid-June during the time of the middle
> republic, it won't occur
> until mid-August this year. Precession of the
> equinoxes does this."
>
> And from whom did these equinoxes get permission to
> do so? I think
> this is a matter for the College of Pontiffs. Hmph.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com

Salve,

Over the law of people's government stands the eternal
and divine law of nature as our Roman forebears,
uncorrupted by Epicureanism, all avowed.

--- "CN•EQVIT•MARINVS (Gnaeus Equitius Marinus)"
<gawne@...> wrote:

> Salve Cato,
>
> gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:
>
> [about precession of the equinoxes]
> > And from whom did these equinoxes get permission
> to do so?
>
> I'm not sure, but it may be the same source that
> gave Vesuvius permission to
> erupt.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I think you over-estimate the ability to convert/conform or die. Certainly
some may be offered this option. Many are merely offered the choice of die
or die. Do you really think that all 60 million plus killed by the Soviets
refused to cooperate? Have you ever seen the "Killing Fields"? Do you
really think that the Khmer Rouge actually offered their victims a choice?
Did Tutsi's really have an option to convert to being Hutus? I think what
ultimately many find appalling about the Nazi efforts is the highly
systematic, mechanistic methods employed. But this has more to do with the
German national character than any unique attribute to their motivations or
the ultimate outcome. If you are on the receiving end, it makes very little
difference what is motivating your persecutor. As has been said, dead is
dead.

No one should comfort themselves with the thought that if Islamo-Fascism
ultimately emerges victorious that they can just convert no problem.
Victors are rarely as magnanimous as they later claim they were. As
MacArthur said "In war there is no substitute for victory." Could
Islamo-Fascism ultimately succeed? I doubt it in the short term. Most
tangible advantages seem to accrue to the West. Unfortunately the West
appears generally incapable of bringing these advantages fully to bear out
of some misguided sense of self-restraint. The Islamo-Fascists exhibit no
such restraint only a current lack of means. So as the West is wracked by
self-doubt, if not self-loathing, and obsesses on its supposed flaws, it
grows weaker and less capable of defending itself. Ever we hear the siren
song of appease, retreat, and surrender.

Even Rome took a long time to fall. So perhaps the Islamo-Fascists won't
win until I have shuffled off this mortal coil. What do I really care about
my children and grand-children? Perhaps they will learn to answer the Call
to Prayer, or perhaps they will join me in Elysium before their time.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 6/15/06, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) <mjk@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Amice,
>
> Ultimately, even with such a take over a pagan still has the option
> of "convert or die". The Jews, gays and gypsies could not covert,
> join the party or sing the Horst Wessel Lied to save themselves;
> just the option to die.
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Tiberius
> Galerius Paulinus"
>
> <spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus who said in part
> >
> > "I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist or
> > even a fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
> > NR than the Nazis who are blatantly honest about how they stand
> with
> > people of different races or ethnicity."
> >
> > As the numbers below illustrate if you live under ANY Totalitarian
> > regime death comes in the millions!!
> >
> > If one is shot or gassed by the Nazi SS or murdered by the Soviet
> > Checka/NKVD/KGB
> >
> > Dead is Dead
> >
> > "fundamentalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people of
> > NR"
> >
> > Well you had better get offended because if they win you lose. The
> > fundamentalist Muslims have something the Nazi Germans never had
> >
> > NUMBERS one billion and growing.
> >
> > A Jewish person or a Christian may well survive in a world run by
> > the fundamentalist Muslim. Members of the Religo never.
> >
> > To paraphrase Forest Gump
> >
> > Totalitarian is as Totalitarian does.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulius
> >
> *********************************************************************
> > DEATH BY GOVERNMENT
> > By R.J. Rummel
> > New Brunswick, N.J.:
> > Transaction Publishers, 1994.
> > http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
> >
> > 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
> > 4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
> > 5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
> > 6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
> > 7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
> > III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
> > 8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
> > 9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
> > 10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
> > 11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
> > 12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
> > 13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
> > 14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's Slaughterhouse
> > IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
> > 15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
> > 16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
> > 17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Quintus
> Suetonius Paulinus
> > (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes!
> > >
> > > I studied a lot of 20th century history in my time and am well
> > aware
> > > that there were so many other regimes that outdid the nazis at
> > times
> > > as far as the death count goes.
> > >
> > > I see though one big difference. With the communist regimes who
> > were
> > > more into an equal distribution of wealth philosophy, they
> > included
> > > all mankind in their aspirations and did not have a racial
> agenda.
> > > Make the rich pay so the government can become fat cats applied
> to
> > > everyone regardless of race or culture. Tow the line, re-educate
> > > yourself and you'd survive and continue on.
> > >
> > > The nazis, on the other hand had their racial superman agenda.
> All
> > > peoples non Aryan were total low life and the Jews in particular
> > > WERE SINGLED OUT FOR TOTAL EXTERMINATION. That is, they could
> not
> > > collaborate, tow the party line, scream Heil Hitler, work for
> the
> > > party, shut their mouths and co-operate. There was absolutely
> > > NOTHING they could do to live on as human beings. Gays, gypsies
> > and
> > > Slaves feared no better. To teach a Slav to read road signs and
> > > count to 100 was all the education necessary as one nazi leader
> > said.
> > >
> > > Finally, as mentioned by Senator Maximus, the Romans were a very
> > > rough bunch of boys who would certainly have war crimes
> tribunals
> > on
> > > their heels today but again all peoles of the empire could carry
> > on
> > > with their daily lives, collaborate, keep their jobs and
> > businesses
> > > and even become citizens and negros, celts, Jews etc. were not
> > > singled out for ethnic cleansing or death unless they rebelled
> > > against Rome.
> > >
> > >
> > > I deduce from the observation above therefore that a communist
> or
> > > even a fundementalist Muslim is far less offensive to the people
> > of
> > > NR than the nazis who are blatently honest about how they stand
> > with
> > > people of different races or ethnicity.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > QSP
> > >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

So, "prosecution" should be "reserved for" me, because I "go far
beyond" "[mere] generalities"? Women want an equal vote, but they
also want, and get, child custody, while men get the support order.
Where's the egalitarianism there?

Isn't pretended equality in the face of natural inequality, only the
madness of a totalitarian democracy which thinks it can vote that
the tide doesn't come in? Was there even one woman consul in Rome?
Did even one Roman writer call for women's suffrage? Did Abraham
Lincoln call for women's suffrage? Maybe women's suffrage is the
reason for the political disasters of the 20th century and the
current invasion of the U.S. by Mexico.

Valete,
Appius Claudius Priscus


...> Nota and prosecution should be reserved for those who go far

> beyond merely expressing generalities; such as persons who
> advocate revocation of civil rights for members of a particular
> group. As an example, the person recently receiving a Nota
> is on record as wishing to deny women the right to vote; this
> is incompatible with our egalitarian society, and we expressed
> our rejection of that evil.
>
> Vale, M. Octavius Germanicus.

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
I ask the Quirites to show our collective disgust of App.
Claudius Priscus by not giving him the attention in debate that he
obviously is so desparate for.
Please boycott him by ignoring his posts; believe me he
will leave if we do not engage, it is what such pathetic types live
for. Ignore this Neo Nazi he is not worth the time or a word from
any Nova Roman,
bene valete in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior,


- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "appiusclaudiuspriscus"
<appiusclaudiuspriscus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> So, "prosecution" should be "reserved for" me, because I "go far
> beyond" "[mere] generalities"? Women want an equal vote, but they
> also want, and get, child custody, while men get the support

order.

> Where's the egalitarianism there?
>
> Isn't pretended equality in the face of natural inequality, only

the

> madness of a totalitarian democracy which thinks it can vote that
> the tide doesn't come in? Was there even one woman consul in

Rome?

> Did even one Roman writer call for women's suffrage? Did Abraham
> Lincoln call for women's suffrage? Maybe women's suffrage is the
> reason for the political disasters of the 20th century and the
> current invasion of the U.S. by Mexico.
>
> Valete,
> Appius Claudius Priscus
>
>
> ...> Nota and prosecution should be reserved for those who go far
> > beyond merely expressing generalities; such as persons who
> > advocate revocation of civil rights for members of a particular
> > group. As an example, the person recently receiving a Nota
> > is on record as wishing to deny women the right to vote; this
> > is incompatible with our egalitarian society, and we expressed
> > our rejection of that evil.
> >
> > Vale, M. Octavius Germanicus.
>

Hortensia Bruto spd;
well if you want to know who is in your genetic make-up join
the Genographic Project
https//www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html
Having lived in Ireland and read the results of their genome
project I can tell you that 1) Celtic is a linguistic term 2) there
is a big Norman and Danish element in Ireland 3) the Galway Irish
who had the most unmixed strain are the close genetic cousins of the
Galicians in Spain and the Basques.
Now as for the "Roman" element in Britain. You are
confusing Italy with the Roman army. The army contained legions from
Syria, Libya, Cappadocia etc So the 'Roman' element would be
something like that most probably or German from the Saxons.
Interestingly for me, Jewish East European mitochondrial
DNA (the Female line) has been tracked via Italy to 4 female
ancestors in Israel. The defeat of Judah by Titus and the consequent
enslavement of large numbers of Jewish citizens who were carted off
to Sicily & Italy by the Romans led to the creation of Ashkenazi -
Western European Jews - so thank you Romans:)!
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Mani!
>
> This is an interesting question. All the British peoples are all

greatly mixed in terms of descent. The Gaels in Ireland, Scotland
and the Isle of Man seem to have a significant Norse influence as
well as the Celtic while the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons (who I think
I have to include as British in this context) have a corresponding
Roman element to their make up. While most people here are willing
to accept Celtic and Teutonic elements in our racial make up the
Latin element is more problematic and often overlooked. I think this
is mostly a result of a tabloid view of history. I can still
remember an appalling school project on Boadicea where the Warrior
Queen was portrayed running over Romans in her chariot while waving
a Union Flag over her head! Luckily there were no sound effects or
she might have been singing 'Land of Hope and Glory'! Another factor
is of course politics. After the accession of the House of Hannover
to the English throne a lot was made of

> consanguinity between the English and German peoples. The higher

aristocracy was also shared. There were numerous cases of cousins
facing each other on different sides in the First World War and ex-
students of Eton and Rugby schools died fighting for the Kaiser. A
side effect of being Teutonic is not being Latin.

>
> In the area where I live, Dorset, a great deal is still made of

the Battle of Maiden Castle and the defeat of the Durotriges tribe.
Many local Pagans in particular relate strongly to this and are
suspicious of anything Roman and often downright hostile. This is
understandable I suppose from a Celtic perspective but the area was
one of the most highly populated areas of Roman Britain and contains
loads of archaeology which shows how Romanised the area was. I'm
told there are even some church records dating nearly to the Norman
Conquest which seem to show that a dialect of Latin was still being
spoken here six centuries after the Legions left.

>
> My own feeling is that populations do not really change that

much. Invaders come and go and aristocracies change but the mass of
the people remain largely the same. Inevitably there is
intermarriage and allcomers leave their traces in the bloodlines.
It's interesting to read old accounts of big fair haired Celts and
Saxons and then to look around you in modern Britain and see all the
small tawny haired people with not a bushy moustache or a scramasax
in sight. I guess it must differ from area to area but the truth is
that while the Romans may not have been here for as long a period as
the Celts, or even the Saxons, four centuries is quite long enough
to spread plenty of love around!

>
> And I haven't even started on Brutus, the grandson of Aeneas,

ancestor of the British people who gave his name to the whole
island..........

>
> Vale!
>
> Caius Moravius Brutus
>
> Jonothon Boulter <synarc2000@...> wrote:
> I believe that the British People have a lot of Roman

Ancestry within

> them. Many writers have said this. What do we think of this.?
>
> Manius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all

right..."

>
> The Emperor Claudius
> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Here goes the Brazilian Anthem, in Latin. ;-)
>
> ATS: Thank you very much for that! It is quite lovely.
>
>
>
> I.
> Audierunt Ypirangae ripae placida
> Heroicae gentis validum clamorem,
> Solisque libertatis flammae fulgidae
> Sparsere Patria in caelos tum fulgorem.
>
> Pignus vero aequalitatis
> Possidere si potuimus brachio forti,
> Almo gremio en libertatis,
> Audens sese offert ipsi pectus morti!
>
> O cara Patria,
> Amoris atria,
> Salve! Salve!
>
> Brasilia, somnium tensum, flamma vivida,
> Amorem ferens spemque ad orbis claustrum,
> Si pulchri caeli alacritate limpida,
> Splendescit almum, fulgens, Crucis plaustrum.
>
> Ex propria gigas positus natura,
> Impavida, fortisque, ingensque moles,
> Te magnam praevidebunt jam futura.
>
> Tellus dilecta,
> Inter similia
> Arva, Brasilia,
> Es Patria electa!
>
> Natorum parens alma es inter lilia,
> Patria cara,
> Brasilia!
>
> II.
> In cunis semper strata mire splendidis,
> Sonante mari, caeli albo profundi,
> Effulges, o Brasilia, flos Americae,
> A sole irradiata Novi Mundi!
>
> Ceterisque in orbi plagis
> Tui rident agri florum ditiores;
> "Tenent silvae en vitam magis,
> Magis tenet tuo sinu vita amores."
>
> O cara Patria,
> Amoris atria,
> Salve! Salve!
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
>
> Si vero tollis Themis clavam fortem,
> Non filios tuos videbis vacillantes,
> Aut, in amando te, timentes mortem.
>
> Tellus dilecta,
> Inter similia
> Arva, Brasilia,
> Es Patria electa!
>
> Natorum parens alma es inter lilia,
> Patria cara,
> Brasilia!
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
> Brasilia Provincia
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
> - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> Of A. Tullia Scholastica
> Sent: sábado, 10 de junho de 2006 05:13
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving
>
>> > Salve, D. Valeri Thomas Brune, et salvete, omnes bonae voluntatis!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica,
>> >
>>>> >> > ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
>>>> >> > accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in
>> > that
>>>> >> > capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening
>> > statements
>>>> >> > on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call
> this
>>>> >> > National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these
> accusations
>> > had
>>>> >> > been proven.
>> >
>> > I know quite well how Nazi feelings can jeopardize the development of a
>> > micronational society, and also throw what once was an harmonious
> community
>> > into an anxious quarrel.
>> >
>> > ATS: We have hitherto been spared such things, but it seems that we have
>> > attracted a rather undesirable element. Their attitudes are against our
> laws,
>> > and they are incompatible with Nova Roma.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Here in Brazil I am citizen to a micronation which
>> > brings its ideals from the II German Empire, and we have already seen some
>> > individuals who sought to re-enact elements from Hitlerism within the
>> > political-partidary scene. It is something that we have learned how to
>> > combat. However, we must be always aware of the fact that the Law allows
>> > everyone to think as they will, and forbiding someone of doing it might be
>> > enormously harmful to the whole Juridical Order of the State.
>> >
>> > ATS: In this case, as has been noted earlier, actions endangering the
>> > welfare and existence of Nova Roma were said to have been carried out by
> this
>> > citizen. That is considerably more than thinking, but thinking
> incompatible
>> > with the laws of a voluntary organization is thinking which does not
> belong in
>> > said organization.
>> >
>>>> >> > Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one

of

>>>> >> > the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe

to

>> > the
>>>> >> > NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from
>> > magistrates
>>>> >> > and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
>>>> >> > everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and
>> > reasoned
>>>> >> > tone while refraining from attacking others.
>> >
>> > Having outbreaks of temper - believe me - is a compulsory degree to all
>> > those who are portuguese-speaking micronationalists, specially Brazilians.
>> >
>> > ATS: One must learn to control one¹s temper and one¹s emotions. Not only
>> > do fights result from such displays, but so, too, do heart attacks and
>> > strokes.
>> >
>> > Since spying, hacking, "micro-terrorism", personal verbal attacks and
>> > international conflicts are here things as usual as the daily change of
> our
>> > underware, we have thus become quite acquainted to ill-tempered situations
> -
>> > unfortunately. Happily, this panorama is exactly what my lusophone
>> > micronation and other Govts. are trying to change.
>> >
>>>> >> > ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
>>>> >> > office about your name...
>> >
>> > Well... that's nice - I think. In fact, I really had quite a debate with
> A.
>> > Horatius Severus (who was helping me through the process) about it. ;-)
>> >
>> > ATS: AH Severus is your contact person, or assigned scriba; he handles
>> > Portuguese speakers. However, before he contacted you, we discussed your
>> > name. There are three or four Latinists in the censor¹s office who deal
> with
>> > such matters. When we are satisfied with the correctness of a name, we
> pass
>> > it on to the scriba for notification; if, however, we are unsatisfied, and
>> > cannot use the proposed name, it goes back to the prospective citizen for
>> > amendment, also via the scriba. We don¹t accept geographical names which
>> > denote conquest, or which are too broad, or names which signify adoption,
> or
>> > are honorific...or beyond the period of the early Empire unless they are
>> > Latinizations of personal or geographic names. These are more difficult to
>> > find in our references, which is why yours took a bit longer than some
> others.
>> >
>>>> >> > ATS: This is quite pretty...
>> >
>> > Someone translated the Brazilian National Anthem into Latin, and I found
>> > that work at Orkut. I can send you the complete text, if you want.
>> >
>> >
>> > ATS: yes, I¹d like to see that. Gratias.
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
>> > Brasilia Provincia
>> >
>> > Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
>> > Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
>> > En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
>> > Ventura pax decusque superatum.
>> > - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete,
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica
>> > _____
>> >
>> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of A. Tullia Scholastica
>> > Sent: sexta-feira, 9 de junho de 2006 03:38
>> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Arriving
>> >
>>>> >> > A. Tullia Scholastica D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
>>>> >> > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Sir,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > About the scandal you've mentioned, I could only aprehend, so far,

that

> it
>>>> >> > has something to do with national-socialist manifestations whithin

Nova

>>>> >> > Roma, but I'll be soon looking for related messafes in the archives of
> our
>>>> >> > mailgroup. In the meanwhile, I'd be glad if you could make me a short
>> > report
>>>> >> > about the case.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ATS: This is a matter in which one comparatively new citizen has been
>>>> >> > accused of being a Nazi and of having contacted government agencies in
>> > that
>>>> >> > capacity regarding Nova Roma. The trial was aborted after opening
>> > statements
>>>> >> > on both sides. Only one citizen is involved, so I would hardly call
> this
>>>> >> > National Socialist manifestations in Nova Roma, even if these
> accusations
>> > had
>>>> >> > been proven.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Periodically, we have outbreaks of temper on this list, which is one

of

>>>> >> > the reasons why we suggest that new citizens like yourself subscribe

to

>> > the
>>>> >> > NewRoman list instead, so that you can learn about Nova Roma from
>> > magistrates
>>>> >> > and magisterial assistants without having to face such outbursts. Not
>>>> >> > everyone seems to be aware that adults discuss matters in a calm and
>> > reasoned
>>>> >> > tone while refraining from attacking others.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Thank you for the wellcoming answer, by the way. ;-)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ATS: And I welcome you, too. We had some discussions in the censor¹s
>>>> >> > office about your name...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
>>>> >> > Brasilia Provincia
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
>>>> >> > Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
>>>> >> > En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
>>>> >> > Ventura pax decusque superatum.
>>>> >> > - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ATS: This is quite pretty...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Vale, et valete,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica D. Valerio Thomae Bruno quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve et salvete,
>
> I have been reading some laws and documents about citizenship and its 90-day
> testing period, and I thus have some notes to make about it.
>
> I fully understand and recognize the necessity of having all newly arrived
> cives "tested" in their willingness to effectively establish a productive
> neo-roman citizenship. The State must keep to itself those who really want
> to work, and discard those who are unable to fulfill the demandings of
> micronational - we may say - labouring.
>
> However, I believe that laws that restrict too much the range of action of
> those under test might turn them inactive within Nova Roma, or even
> discourage them of staying in the country - three months are, in
> micronational terms, a really long time, where many things can happen.
>
> ATS: As we have noted before here (and I¹m sure that those who have heard
> this already will bear with us), the tirocinium was instituted because we had
> frivolous applications, applicants who gained citizenship long enough to vote
> for people they didn¹t know, and numerous departures after about two months
> among us. We still have the frivolous applications, but we nip them in the
> bud. The tirocinium and the test seem to have done their work in weeding out
> those who aren¹t really committed to us. Many probationary citizens either
> disappear or never take the test.
>
> Maybe a law should be proposed, through which the Comitia Centuriata or the
> Senate would be enabled to allow particular testing citizens to exert
> activities that should only be permitted after the granting of full
> citizenship (id est, voting, etc.). Obviously, there should exist some
> criteria to evaluate if the testing petitioner deserves being granted those
> privileges, such as activity, institutional participation and/or production.
>
> ATS: The law has an exemption for very rare cases, perhaps in the case of
> academics who are already familiar with the Roman language, government,
> culture, religion, etc. I suspect that it has never been used.
>
> Or, perhaps, any of those institutions would be able to grant the
> citizenship before the end of that 90-days period, submitting anticipatedly
> the testing citizen to the examination established on the Lex Equitia de
> Tirocinio Civium Novorum
>
> ATS: As noted above, there are good reasons NOT to grant full citizenship
> before the 90 days are up. Furthermore, one cannot run for office until one
> has been here for not three months, but six, and this also generally requires
> payment of the so-called tax. There are also age and other requirements.
>
> The fact is that if someone who's still through the 90-days period is workig
> and contributing for the improvement of the society, it would be fair enough
> that this person should be able do take part in some acts or procedures that
> only full citizens have the right to participate.
>
> ATS: Well, there¹s something to say for that, but there¹s a lot to learn
> here. I came here as a classicist with graduate degrees in classics, but was
> by no means ready to participate in the government after only three months. I
> doubt that I am alone.
>
> Vale,
>
> Decimus Valerius Thomas Brunus
> Brasilia Provincia
>
> Brasilia, aeterni amoris fiat symbolum,
> Quod affers tecum, labarum stellatum,
> En dicat aurea viridisque flammula
> Ventura pax decusque superatum.
> - Hymnus Brasiliensis
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/15/2006 9:48:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rory12001@... writes:

The defeat of Judah by Titus and the consequent
enslavement of large numbers of Jewish citizens who were carted off
to Sicily & Italy by the Romans led to the creation of Ashkenazi -
Western European Jews - so thank you Romans:)!




Glad to be of assistance.

Q Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/15/2006 6:49:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
appiusclaudiuspriscus@... writes:

So, "prosecution" should be "reserved for" me, because I "go far
beyond" "[mere] generalities"beyond" "[mere] generalities"<WBR
also want, and get, child custody, while men get the support order.
Where's the egalitarianism there?

Salve Appio Claudio Prisco

What you have to realize, is that the Censors are charged to make sure that
Nova Roma
is not troubled by controversy caused by immorality. And they have been
charged though their election by the centuries, to uphold this morality, which
they determine themselves.
The Censors answer to no one. They are autonomous. And last time I looked,
women in the US had the vote. They get the kid, because mothers are more
important then fathers during a child's formative years.



Isn't pretended equality in the face of natural inequality, only the
madness of a totalitarian democracy which thinks it can vote that
the tide doesn't come in? Was there even one woman consul in Rome?
Did even one Roman writer call for women's suffrage? Did Abraham
Lincoln call for women's suffrage? Maybe women's suffrage is the
reason for the political disasters of the 20th century and the
current invasion of the U.S. by Mexico.


And maybe they were caused by a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil.
Speculate all you want. It is at no charge. Try not to drag us into your
speculations.

Q. Fabius Maximus


Valete,
Appius Claudius Priscus






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"Spread your sails to the west wind, mariners, if you trust
The breeze, tomorrow it blows fair over your waters." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"This spectacle exhibits the might of Fortune and the ease with which,
whenever she busies herself and takes command, she provides from
unexpected sources against all emergencies by implanting intelligence
in the unreasoning and senseless, and prowess and daring in the
craven. For who would not, truly, be struck with astonishment and
amazement when he has come to learn and has embraced in his
consideration the former dejection of the city and her present
prosperity, eand has looked upon the splendour of her temples, the
richness of her votive offerings, the rivalry of her arts and crafts,
the ambitious efforts of subject cities, the crowns of dependent
kings, and all things which the earth contributes and the sea and
islands, continents, rivers, trees, living creatures, plains,
mountains, mines, the first-fruits of everything, vying for beauty in
the aspect and grace that adorns this place? And then comes the
thought: how near did all this come to not being created and to not
existing at all! When all things else were overcome by fire and
frightful darkness and gloom, by foreign swords and murderous rage, it
was poor, irrational, and timorous creatures that contributed the
beginning of deliverance; fand those great heroes and commanders, the
Manlii, the Servilii, the Postumii, the Papirii, the founders of
future illustrious houses, whom naught separated from death, geese
aroused to make defence for the god of their fathers and for their
fatherland. But if it be true, as Polybius has recorded in his second
book, concerning the Gauls who had at this time seized Rome, that,
when news suddenly came to them that their domains at home were in
danger of being lost to them at the hands of neighbouring barbarians
who had invaded their land and were masters of it, they concluded a
treaty of peace with Camillus and withdrew — if this be true, then
there can be no contention with Fortune that she was not the cause of
Rome's preservation, by distracting the enemy, or rather, by
abstracting them from Rome quite unexpectedly." - Plutarch, "On the
Fortune of the Romans" 12

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Plutarch

Salvete omnes,

I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on the
American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from Canada
by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil. Similarly I am
running into many youths who have never heard of Caesar, Napoleon and
would you believe Hitler. All these people are not illiterate and have
completed at least grade 12.

Hopefully the schools will rectify this problen someday.

Regards,

QSP

"Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> writes:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
> I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on the
> American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from Canada
> by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil.

*sigh*

My Canadian father must be spinning in his grave. He taught me about a lot of
Canadian-US history that didn't make its way into my history books, but
certainly did get taught in Canada, such as General Brock's repulse of US
invaders at Queenstown back in 1812.

While I'm certainly willing to cop to all the things that the US *did* do in
its long relationship with Canada, I'm pretty sure the Canadian government
was pleased when the US bought Alaska from Russia. Canada never claimed any
territory west of the Yukon.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salve Pauline,

SAdly, I share your opinion. I remember young French school students
being unable to say what happened June 6th, 1944 and not even knowing
what Bastille Day meant for France...

I believe--I hope--schools still teach these things but students are
not interested, because we live in a world where the present only
counts... We need to reinforce history programs and change the mores.

Vale bene,

Titus Africanus Secundus Flamininus.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
(Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
> I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on the
> American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from

Canada

> by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil. Similarly I

am

> running into many youths who have never heard of Caesar, Napoleon

and

> would you believe Hitler. All these people are not illiterate and

have

> completed at least grade 12.
>
> Hopefully the schools will rectify this problen someday.
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>

Salve Censor Marine,

I agree. Anyway I was so surprised; since 5 years old I knew about
the greatest real estate deal in history where the US bought Alaska
from Russia; even the kids' Ripley's Believe It Or Not, had articles
on this. To add insult to injury with respect to knowledge, the
purchase was arranged in 1859 and Canada did not officially become a
country until 1867. And Canada didn't claim Alaska before as you
indicated since it was Russian territory.

By the way, could you imagine what the latter half of the 20th
century would have been like if Alaska had remained part of Russia?


Regards,

QSP



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "CN•EQVIT•MARINVS \(Gnaeus
Equitius Marinus\)" <gawne@...> wrote:

>
> "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> writes:
>
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
> > I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on

the

> > American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from

Canada

> > by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil.
>
> *sigh*
>
> My Canadian father must be spinning in his grave. He taught me

about a lot of

> Canadian-US history that didn't make its way into my history

books, but

> certainly did get taught in Canada, such as General Brock's

repulse of US

> invaders at Queenstown back in 1812.
>
> While I'm certainly willing to cop to all the things that the US

*did* do in

> its long relationship with Canada, I'm pretty sure the Canadian

government

> was pleased when the US bought Alaska from Russia. Canada never

claimed any

> territory west of the Yukon.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

F. Galerius Aurelianus Propraetor Austrorientalis S.P.D.

I would like to have all of the citizens who reside in or near the
borders of America Austrorientalis province to subscribe to the
provinical website at:

Austrorientalis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

We are planning our first provincial gathering to take place on
Sunday, July 23, 2006 to celebrate the Neptunalia. The event will
take place near Lebanon, Tennessee, close to I-40 W/E. There will
be a meeting of the provincial council to discuss other activities &
events; a dedication of a private shrine to Neptunus; a possible
ludi; plus feasting, drinking, and fellowship.

I encourage all those living in the Southeastern U.S. to subscribe
to the list so as to know about the events we will be holding and
the opportunities to participate.

Valete.

Metellus Marino Paulino Flaminio sal.

> I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
> I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on the
> American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from Canada
> by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil. Similarly I am
> running into many youths who have never heard of Caesar, Napoleon and
> would you believe Hitler. All these people are not illiterate and have
> completed at least grade 12.

That's depressing, to say the very least. I ran into the Dictator,
the Emperor, and the Corporal all by grade 6, and the acquisition of
Alaska and Hawaii sometime about grade 9. Granted, my knowledge of
Canadian history isn't what it should be (but then again, my general
study of history stops at about 1500 CE), but I'm sure Minerva and the
Muses aren't too happy with the status of things here.

But it's not just in history where the bar is dropping. When a Ph.D.
is required for positions which fifty or sixty years ago were held by
persons holding Bachelor's or Master's degrees, it's a clear sign that
a sad state of affairs is coming, if not already here. My father was
fond of telling me that there will be a day when a Bachelor's degree
would be required to work at your standard fast food place; I'd say
that we're getting dangerously close to that mark, and we're not far
from that requirement becoming a Master's degree.

Valete,

Q. Caecilius Metellus

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
I learned about Bastille day in grade school, along with
Ancient History, English History, American History, French & Russian
Language & naturally we actually parsed sentences in English class
where my teacher taught grammar. Zounds!
I am forced to agree with you Metelle, having taken a graduate
seminar I actually heard doctoral candidates complain that the
assigned text was too hard! I will say my German teacher, who is from
Pfalz was splendid and a hard worker.
Eheu...Hortensia Maior

it's a clear sign that

> a sad state of affairs is coming, if not already here. My father was
> fond of telling me that there will be a day when a Bachelor's degree
> would be required to work at your standard fast food place; I'd say
> that we're getting dangerously close to that mark, and we're not far
> from that requirement becoming a Master's degree.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus
>

> > a sad state of affairs is coming, if not already here. My father

was

> > fond of telling me that there will be a day when a Bachelor's

degree

> > would be required to work at your standard fast food place; I'd say
> > that we're getting dangerously close to that mark, and we're not

far

> > from that requirement becoming a Master's degree.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Q. Caecilius Metellus
> >
>

Salvete Q.Caecili et omnes,

So history repeats itelf again! My mother told me that about after a
year after the 29 depression in Montreal hit, three of her friends
applied for the job of driving a milk truck for home deliveries. One
had grade 9 but had to leave junior high as money ran out, the other
just finished his BA with no prospects and the third was half way
through dental school but had to pull out as family funding came to a
drastic end... the dental student got the job since they chose by
educational level.

Regards,

QSP

Salve Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

My dear friend have you not read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It was as if she had a window on the
future.

"Time To Make History Compulsory Again" How about reading!!!!

"The theme of Atlas Shrugged is that independent, rational thought is the engine that powers the world.
The main conflict of the book occurs as the "individuals of the mind" go on strike<about:blank>, thus no longer contributing problem-solving analysis, new ideas, inventions, medical breakthroughs, research, or inventions of any kind to the rest of the world, allowing a near-total collapse of a society that they had not only been crucial in holding together, but a society which they had even been forced to subsidize. The previous peaceful cohesiveness of the world had required those individuals whose productive work comes from mental effort. They had always naturally created in direct disproportion to forceful interference by others. But given no alternative, they eventually start disappearing from the communities of "looters," Rand's term for others seeking a free dependency on productive people."

If you have not read it I highly recommend it.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)<mailto:mjk@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 2:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Time To Make History Compulsory Again


Salvete omnes,

I cannot but feel dumbfounded in the marco world these days.
I just talked to a fellow in his 20's and he was really down on the
American people. He was so upset because they stole Alaska from Canada
by force in the 19th century probably for all the oil. Similarly I am
running into many youths who have never heard of Caesar, Napoleon and
would you believe Hitler. All these people are not illiterate and have
completed at least grade 12.

Hopefully the schools will rectify this problen someday.

Regards,

QSP





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Caecilius Metellus Omnibus sal.

I apologise for the slight interruption of the normal festivities, but due to
some ISP problems, I wasn't receiving mail to my usual address as of Wednesday
afternoon. Unfortunately, all the mail which reached the inbox has since been
deleted by my ISP, thus it's all been summarily lost. So if anyone has sent
me something between then and now (including priesthood applications, inter
alia) which hasn't received a response, please just send it again, and I'll be
happy to respond.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming....

Valete Bene,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex, Fetial, and Senior Provincial Sacerdos (Lacus Magni)

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XV Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"But when the Sun, the father of the Heliades, has dipped his rays
In the waves, and the quiet stars have circled the twin poles,
Orion will lift his mighty shoulders above the earth:
And the next night the Dolphin will be seen.
Once it saw the Volscians and Aequians fleeing
Over your plains, Mount Algidus:
And you Tubertus triumphing famously over your neighbours
Rode as victor, in a chariot drawn by snow-white horses." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"As a great struggle seemed imminent, the senate ordered that Mamercus
Aemilius should be again nominated Dictator. A. Postumius Tubertus was
appointed Master of the Horse. Preparations for war were made with all
the greater energy now than on the last occasion, as the danger to be
apprehended from the whole of Etruria was greater than from only two
of its towns.

"On hearing this appeal, the tribunes considered that a favourable
opportunity presented itself for augmenting their authority, and they
retired to deliberate. Then they formally declared in the name of the
whole college of tribunes that it was their determination that the
consuls should bow to the will of the senate; if they offered any
further opposition to the unanimous decision of that most august
order, they, the tribunes, would order them to be thrown into prison.
The consuls preferred defeat at the hands of the tribunes rather than
at those of the senate. If, they said, the consuls could be coerced by
the tribunes in virtue of their authority, and even sent to prison -
and what more than this had ever a private citizen to fear? - then the
senate had betrayed the rights and privileges of the highest office in
the State, and made an ignominious surrender, putting the consulship
under the yoke of the tribunician power. They could not even agree as
to who should nominate the Dictator, so they cast lots and the lot
fell to T. Quinctius. He nominated A. Postumius Tubertus, his
father-in-law, a stern and resolute commander. The Dictator named L.
Julius as the Master of the Horse. Orders were issued for a levy to be
raised and for all business, legal and otherwise, to be suspended in
the City, except the preparations for war. The investigation of claims
for exemption from military service was postponed till the end of the
war, so even in doubtful cases men preferred to give in their names.
The Hernici and the Latins were ordered to furnish troops; both
nations carried out the Dictator's orders most zealously.

The storming of the [Aequian] camp was just as furious as the battle
had been. It is recorded that the consul actually threw a standard
inside the stockade to make the soldiers more eager to assault it, and
in endeavouring to recover it the first breach was made. When the
stockade was torn down and the Dictator had now carried the fighting
into the camp, the enemy began everywhere to throw away their arms and
surrender. After the capture of this camp, the enemy, with the
exception of the senators, were all sold as slaves. A part of the
booty comprised the plundered property of the Latins and Hernicans,
and after being identified, was restored to them, the rest the
Dictator sold "under the spear". After placing the consul in command
of the camp, he entered the City in triumph and then laid down his
dictatorship. Some writers have cast a gloom over the memory of this
glorious dictatorship by handing down a tradition that the Dictator's
son, who, seeing an opportunity for fighting to advantage, had left
his post against orders, was beheaded by his father, though
victorious. I prefer to disbelieve the story, and am at liberty to do
so, as opinions differ. An argument against it is that such cruel
displays of authority are called "Manlian" not "Postumian," for it is
the first man who practiced such severity to whom the stigma would
have been affixed. Moreover, Manlius received the soubriquet of
"Imperiosus"; Postumius was not distinguished by any invidious
epithet." - Livy, History of Rome IV.23,26,29 [ed.]

A. Posthumus Tubertus was magister equitum to the dictator Mam.
Aemilius Mamercimis in 433 BC, and was himself dictator in 431 BC. The
latter year was memorable in the Ro­man annals by the great victory
which the dictator gained on Mount Algidus over the united forces of
the Aequians and Volscians. This victory, which is related to have
been fought on the 17 (or 18th) of June, decided the contest with the
Aequians, who from this time forward appear as the subjects of Rome.
According to universal tradition the dictator put his son to death in
this campaign, because he quitted the post in which his father had
placed him through his desire of fighting with the enemy. Livy does
not like this possibility, and dismisses it on rather shaky grounds.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Livy

Q. Caecilius Metellus wrote:

> Metellus Marino Paulino Flaminio sal.
>
> My father was
> fond of telling me that there will be a day when a Bachelor's degree
> would be required to work at your standard fast food place; I'd say
> that we're getting dangerously close to that mark, and we're not far
> from that requirement becoming a Master's degree.

There's a half-joking assertion that all the fast food employees in
Cambridge Massachussets are masters students in theoretical physics. I
have confirmed that this is not strictly true. At least a few of them
are masters students in engineering and applied physics disciplines.

Vale,

-- Marinus

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Just as a reminder (and information for our newer citizens):

I stubbornly refuse to use the names "Iulius" (July) or "Augustus"
(August) for the two months in the middle of the summer. I prefer the
Republican names: "Quinctilis" ("fifth" - sometimes written
"Quintilis") and "Sextilis" ("sixth"). Remember that the Roman year
originally began on the Kalends of Martius, and after Iunius, they
seem to have lost interest in naming the months after a god or
goddess; the rest of the year was simply numbering the months using
Martius as the first month.

After G. Iulius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BC, the Roman Senate
renamed Quinctilis in honor of him, Iulius. In a show of respect, the
newly renamed month was given the maximum number of days in a Roman
month, 31. Augustus, his successor, basically felt jealous and
renamed Sextilis in honor of himself, August. Sextilis only had 30
days, so Augustus stole a day from what was Februarius and added it to
Sextilis/August, giving himself 31 days too.

Valete bene!

Cato

Hortensia Gn.Equito Marino spd;
in the grocery of my college town Chapel Hill we have
the "Six items or fewer" lane! beat that..
vale
Hortensia Maior

> There's a half-joking assertion that all the fast food

employees in

> Cambridge Massachussets are masters students in theoretical

physics. I

> have confirmed that this is not strictly true. At least a few of

them

> are masters students in engineering and applied physics

disciplines.

>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>

Salve Hortensia!

Absolutely true! I suppose it all comes down to how you define 'Roman'. Over the years I've come to see race as being a very misleading and nebulous term that we might be better off ditching altogether.

My own family (partially) originate in North Wales and although I barely understand the science I gather we are genetically similar to the Berber populations of North Africa. Linguistically and culturally we are however Celtic, Brythonic or Romano-British if I am being controversial. Personally I like to hang on to the idea that in the deep and distant past at least one Roman of the City contributed to my particular bloodline! Even if it's a fantasy it makes me happy so I'm going to run with it!

It does occur to me that at the time of the Julian and Claudian invasions much of the officer corps at least may still have been of Italic descent. Can any of our historians confirm or deny this?

Vale!

Brutus



Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
Hortensia Bruto spd;
well if you want to know who is in your genetic make-up join
the Genographic Project
https//www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html
Having lived in Ireland and read the results of their genome
project I can tell you that 1) Celtic is a linguistic term 2) there
is a big Norman and Danish element in Ireland 3) the Galway Irish
who had the most unmixed strain are the close genetic cousins of the
Galicians in Spain and the Basques.
Now as for the "Roman" element in Britain. You are
confusing Italy with the Roman army. The army contained legions from
Syria, Libya, Cappadocia etc So the 'Roman' element would be
something like that most probably or German from the Saxons.
Interestingly for me, Jewish East European mitochondrial
DNA (the Female line) has been tracked via Italy to 4 female
ancestors in Israel. The defeat of Judah by Titus and the consequent
enslavement of large numbers of Jewish citizens who were carted off
to Sicily & Italy by the Romans led to the creation of Ashkenazi -
Western European Jews - so thank you Romans:)!
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Mani!
>
> This is an interesting question. All the British peoples are all

greatly mixed in terms of descent. The Gaels in Ireland, Scotland
and the Isle of Man seem to have a significant Norse influence as
well as the Celtic while the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons (who I think
I have to include as British in this context) have a corresponding
Roman element to their make up. While most people here are willing
to accept Celtic and Teutonic elements in our racial make up the
Latin element is more problematic and often overlooked. I think this
is mostly a result of a tabloid view of history. I can still
remember an appalling school project on Boadicea where the Warrior
Queen was portrayed running over Romans in her chariot while waving
a Union Flag over her head! Luckily there were no sound effects or
she might have been singing 'Land of Hope and Glory'! Another factor
is of course politics. After the accession of the House of Hannover
to the English throne a lot was made of

> consanguinity between the English and German peoples. The higher

aristocracy was also shared. There were numerous cases of cousins
facing each other on different sides in the First World War and ex-
students of Eton and Rugby schools died fighting for the Kaiser. A
side effect of being Teutonic is not being Latin.

>
> In the area where I live, Dorset, a great deal is still made of

the Battle of Maiden Castle and the defeat of the Durotriges tribe.
Many local Pagans in particular relate strongly to this and are
suspicious of anything Roman and often downright hostile. This is
understandable I suppose from a Celtic perspective but the area was
one of the most highly populated areas of Roman Britain and contains
loads of archaeology which shows how Romanised the area was. I'm
told there are even some church records dating nearly to the Norman
Conquest which seem to show that a dialect of Latin was still being
spoken here six centuries after the Legions left.

>
> My own feeling is that populations do not really change that

much. Invaders come and go and aristocracies change but the mass of
the people remain largely the same. Inevitably there is
intermarriage and allcomers leave their traces in the bloodlines.
It's interesting to read old accounts of big fair haired Celts and
Saxons and then to look around you in modern Britain and see all the
small tawny haired people with not a bushy moustache or a scramasax
in sight. I guess it must differ from area to area but the truth is
that while the Romans may not have been here for as long a period as
the Celts, or even the Saxons, four centuries is quite long enough
to spread plenty of love around!

>
> And I haven't even started on Brutus, the grandson of Aeneas,

ancestor of the British people who gave his name to the whole
island..........

>
> Vale!
>
> Caius Moravius Brutus
>
> Jonothon Boulter <synarc2000@...> wrote:
> I believe that the British People have a lot of Roman

Ancestry within

> them. Many writers have said this. What do we think of this.?
>
> Manius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all

right..."

>
> The Emperor Claudius
> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

The first season of HBO's series "Rome" is being rerun Saturday nights on HBO2 at 9PM EST, starting tonight. While the show is not always historically accurate, it is a visual feast and I highly recommend it. I especially like the sets and props!

Valete,
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/17/2006 3:18:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
crwbanmor@... writes:
It does occur to me that at the time of the Julian and Claudian invasions
much of the officer corps at least may still have been of Italic descent. Can any
of our historians confirm or deny this?

Julian they certainly were, less so by Claudius time, there were Gauls,
Hispanics, and Greeks commanding cohors of Auxilia in the second invasion.. They
were Roman citizens, just not born in Italy or Rome.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"The reasons alleged for the war were — on the side of the Romans,
that the Carthaginians had assisted the Tarentines, on the side of the
Carthaginians, that Romans had made a treaty of friendship with Hiero.
The truth was, however, that they were viewing each other with
jealousy and thought that the only salvation for their own possessions
lay in the possibility of obtaining also those of the others. While
they were thus disposed, a certain incident broke the truce and
provoked them to war. It was of the following nature.

The Mamertines, who had once conducted a colony from Campania to
Messana, were now being besieged by Hiero, and they called upon the
Romans as a nation of kindred blood. The latter readily voted to aid
them, knowing that in case the Mamertines should not secure an
alliance with them, they would have recourse to the Carthaginians; and
then the Carthaginians would master all Sicily, and from there cross
over into Italy. For this island is such a short distance away from
the mainland that the story goes that it was itself once a part of the
mainland. So the island, thus lying off Italy, seemed to invite the
Carthaginians to lay claim also to the land over opposite, could they
but occupy Sicily first; and the possession of Messana assured to its
masters the control of the strait also.

Though the Romans voted to assist the Mamertines, they did not
promptly come to their aid because of various hindrances that
occurred. Hence the Mamertines, under the spur of necessity, called
upon the Carthaginians. These effected peace with Hiero both for
themselves and for those who had invoked their aid, so as to prevent
the Romans from crossing into the island; and under the leadership of
Hanno they kept guard over the strait and the city. Meantime Gaius
Claudius, a military tribune, sent ahead with a few ships by Appius
Claudius, had arrived at Rhegium. But to sail across was more than he
dared, for he saw that the Carthaginian fleet was far larger. So he
embarked in a skiff and landed at Messana, where he talked to the
Mamertines as long as the time permitted. When the Carthaginians spoke
in opposition, he returned without accomplishing anything at the time;
but later, ascertaining that the Mamertines were at odds,— they did
not wish to submit to the Romans, and yet were weary of the
Carthaginians,— he sailed over again. Among other remarks which he
made to tempt them he declared that the object of his presence was to
free the city, and that as soon as their affairs could be set in
order, he would sail away. He also commanded the Carthaginians either
to withdraw, or, if they had any just plea, to offer it. Now when not
one of the Mamertines, by reason of fear, opened his lips, and the
Carthaginians, who were occupying the city by force, paid no heed to
him, he said: "The silence on both sides affords sufficient evidence.
On the part of the invaders it shows that they are in the wrong, since
they would have justified themselves if their purposes were at all
honest; and on the part of the Mamertines, that they covet freedom,
since they would have spoken freely if they had espoused the cause of
the Carthaginians." And he promised to aid them. At this a tumult of
applause arose from the Mamertines. He then sailed back to Rhegium,
and a little later forced a passage across with his entire fleet.
However, partly because of the numbers and skill of the Carthaginians,
but chiefly owing to the violence of the current and to a storm that
suddenly came up, he lost some of his triremes and barely succeeded in
getting back safely to Rhegium with the remainder." - Cassius Dio,
"The Roman Histories" XI.8

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Cassius Dio

Salvete,

If we had a Mithras thing, we could have
Steak-Tauroctony in olive oil and garum with just a
bit of sauteed rosemary, garlic, and ginger as dipping
sauce.

--- "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
wrote:

> F. Galerius Aurelianus Propraetor Austrorientalis
> S.P.D.
>
> I would like to have all of the citizens who reside
> in or near the
> borders of America Austrorientalis province to
> subscribe to the
> provinical website at:
>
> Austrorientalis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> We are planning our first provincial gathering to
> take place on
> Sunday, July 23, 2006 to celebrate the Neptunalia.
> The event will
> take place near Lebanon, Tennessee, close to I-40
> W/E. There will
> be a meeting of the provincial council to discuss
> other activities &
> events; a dedication of a private shrine to
> Neptunus; a possible
> ludi; plus feasting, drinking, and fellowship.
>
> I encourage all those living in the Southeastern
> U.S. to subscribe
> to the list so as to know about the events we will
> be holding and
> the opportunities to participate.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
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Salvete Omnes!

In view of our recent discussions about Roman Ancestry in Britain I
gleefully present the following for your entertainment and
eddification!

Geoffrey of Monmouth was possibly the greatest of all British
historians. His genius lay in his stubborn refusal to be restrained
by either the presence or the lack of pertinent facts. Indeed whereas
many historians would struggle with the absence of evidence Geoffrey
proved able, time and again, to construct great century spanning
edifices of history on foundations so elusive as to be essentially
non-existent. With awe and reverence therefore I present to you an
abridged version of Geoffrey of Monmouth's account of Brutus and the
conquest of Britain.

After the death of Aeneas, Ascanius Iulus ancestor of the Gens Julia
became King of Latium. He in turn had a son Silvius who was himself
the father of Brutus. Now before Brutus was born the magicians of
Ascanius had foretold that the child would kill both his mother and
his father and then be sent into exile before finally attaining to
the highest honours. When his mother died in labour it seemed that
the prophecy was already coming true. Some years later he slew his
father in a hunting accident and was driven out of Latium by his
angry relatives.

He sought refuge in Greece and found there large numbers of Trojan
slaves who had been carried off into captivity after the fall of
Troy. Brutus was well received on account of his prowess as a warrior
and took control of their struggle against the Greeks. The Trojans
demanded the return of their freedom and dignity and said that if the
Greek King Pandrasus would not permit them to remain and work in
liberty he should provide them with the ships and supplies necessary
for them to seek a new home elsewhere. Pandrasus refused these
demands and a bitter conflict ensued which the Trojans ultimately won
capturing the King himself. He then, having no real option, gave them
a fleet of three hundred and twenty four ships loaded with foodstuffs
and the Trojans departed under Brutus' leadership.

At this point they still had little idea of where they were heading
but on landing on the island of Leogecia, where there was a shrine to
Diana, Brutus decided to seek divine guidance. He erected three
altars and made libations to Jove, Jupiter and the Goddess. Then
standing before the main altar with a vessel in either hand, one
containing wine and one the blood of a white hind, he spoke thus:-

"Goddess and Forest Queen, Wild Boar's Terror!
You who walk at will the Maze of Heaven and the Lower Realms,
Vouchsafe to mortal men your guidance!
Say, Goddess, in what lands you wish us to dwell.
What safe haven? Which sure abode?
There to you for all time I pledge
Temples and the songs of Holy Maidens!"

He repeated this nine times, walked round the altar four times and
then poured the wine and blood upon the hearth. Lying down on the
skin of a hind in front of the altar he slept until the third hour of
the night when Diana herself appeared before him saying:-

"Brutus - past the lands of Gaul, beneath the sunset
There lies an island guarded by Ocean - the home of giants.
Desolate it lies now and fit for this your people.
Seek it! For there will be your home forever.
There your sons shall build Troy again;
There from your line shall be born Kings
To rule in every land the wide world over!"

Telling his companions of his vision Brutus then led the refugees
across the Mediterranean, fighting off pirates en route, through the
Pillars of Hercules and into the Atlantic Ocean. Here they joined
with other Trojan exiles led by a nobleman of prodigious strength
named Corineus. They attacked and despoiled Aquitaine before being
driven off by the Gauls and at length came to Totnes in the South
West of the island then known as Albion. Here they disembarked.

The country, as the Goddess had told them, was inhabited at this time
only by a race of giants who they fought and drove into the high
mountain caves. The Trojans then divided out the land among
themselves by lot with Corineus gaining the most South Westerly
region which became known as Cornwall in his honour. Brutus meanwhile
sought for a suitable place to build a new city. At length he found
the perfect spot in the valley of the Thames where London now stands.
The city was at first known as New Troy but in time this became
changed to Trinovantium. Brutus himself gave his name to the island
as a whole and his people became known as Britons. Their speech which
had been called Trojan or Crooked-Greek then became known as British.

And thus it is we see the origins of the British people and the
evidence of their descent from Aeneas and from the Goddess Venus and
also the close relationship of the Britons to the Julian line and to
the people of Latium.

Valete!

Caius Moravius Brutus

Hmm but what about the Celts? Did they pursue the Latins and Trojans to
Albion and destroy them? Since Caesar reported nothing but Celts in the south
of Britain, there must have been some catastrophe.

Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I am premature on this forgive me.... I relize I was late paying my
taxes...but after sending them in, and recieving the cancelled check I
still have nmot seen my name returned to the civies list.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus

Salve, Regulus.

If you would supply the bull and agree to cut its throat with a coulter, I
would supply the charcoal and spices. Don't forget to get on the list,
citizen, as I recall you and I live in the same town in Tennessee.

My wife found it very amusing when I told her what a coulter meant in the
Religio. She had been reading about Anne Coulter's latest diatribe when I said
that a coulter was a Roman sacrificial knife with a sharp edge, no point,
and a round back. She very nearly sprayed Coke out her nose.

Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve Pompeius:

I acknowledge receipt of your payment and I will forward your note
to the Censors's office regarding your placement in the Album
Gentium.

Vale
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <warrior44_us@...> wrote:

>
> If I am premature on this forgive me.... I relize I was late

paying my

> taxes...but after sending them in, and recieving the cancelled

check I

> still have nmot seen my name returned to the civies list.
> Vale,
> Gaius Pompeius Marcellus
>

F. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.

To my loving family, I convey greetings and affection. I have been
informed that the old gensgaleria list has been deleted by some
misfortune and we will all need to join the new list at
yahoogroups.com. I hope that everyone will get on board as soon as
possible. With two provinces currently under the administration of
members of the family and many new events occuring soon, I expect we
will have many new citizens asking to join one of the strongest
Plebeian gentes in Nova Roma.

Vadite in pace Cereris. Vadite in nomine Deo Apollo.

Salve,

I live in Hermitage/Mt Juliet, TN in either respect,
Wilson County. I live on the county line. If our
driveway was a bit further north on property, I would
be in Hermitage, Davidson County. If our driveway is
as it is now , it is Hermitage, TN. Wilson County. If
it was a bit south and east at 90 degrees from the
property, it would be Mt. Juliet, TN.

--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Salve, Regulus.
>
> If you would supply the bull and agree to cut its
> throat with a coulter, I
> would supply the charcoal and spices. Don't forget
> to get on the list,
> citizen, as I recall you and I live in the same town
> in Tennessee.
>
> My wife found it very amusing when I told her what a
> coulter meant in the
> Religio. She had been reading about Anne Coulter's
> latest diatribe when I said
> that a coulter was a Roman sacrificial knife with a
> sharp edge, no point,
> and a round back. She very nearly sprayed Coke out
> her nose.
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Q. Metellus Fl. Galerio salutem.

Salve, Aureliane.

> I expect we will have many new
> citizens asking to join one of the strongest Plebeian gentes
> in Nova Roma.

I'll give you a rival to that title yet! The Caecilii Metelli, of which
there are now two (Quintus and Lucius), shall not lie idly by and let
another family claim the fame we once had! History shall repeat itself on
this one yet! [I may have to learn some alien technology and cloning first,
perhaps generate some pod Metelli or something....]

The suffect consul of '51 will not be the only Caecilius Metellus in our
lifetime to hold curule office, let me assure you. As I'm sure you're now
thinking, "It's On!".

{All in good humour, of course.}

Vale,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus

Salve,


Also remember a diatribe is originally an intellectual
analysis designed to win by
also not having a point but by wearing the
opponent down by rubbing the wrong way or by
driving the discussion into the ground. On a
few occasions, the Greek for diatribe was
translated into the Latin culter if context
gave it the latter sense.

--- PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Salve, Regulus.
>
> If you would supply the bull and agree to cut its
> throat with a coulter, I
> would supply the charcoal and spices. Don't forget
> to get on the list,
> citizen, as I recall you and I live in the same town
> in Tennessee.
>
> My wife found it very amusing when I told her what a
> coulter meant in the
> Religio. She had been reading about Anne Coulter's
> latest diatribe when I said
> that a coulter was a Roman sacrificial knife with a
> sharp edge, no point,
> and a round back. She very nearly sprayed Coke out
> her nose.
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Metellus, mi amice.

My sisters and I have been discussing you and, on Saturn's Day, we
have decide to propose that our two families become cousins to one
another. To be honest, Violentilla and Mania would like to adopt
you personally into the family due to the exceptional kindness you
have shown them and the knowledge that you have shared with them.

Do not worry overmuch about the numbers of the Caecilii Metelli at
present since you can consider your gens and ours to be related in
spirit and sentiment.

"I expect we will have many new citizens asking to join one of the
strongest Plebeian gentes in Nova Roma.

"I'll give you a rival to that title yet! The Caecilii Metelli, of
which there are now two (Quintus and Lucius), shall not lie idly by
and let another family claim the fame we once had! History shall
repeat itself on this one yet! [I may have to learn some alien
technology and cloning first, perhaps generate some pod Metelli or
something....]

"The suffect consul of '51 will not be the only Caecilius Metellus
in our lifetime to hold curule office, let me assure you. As I'm
sure you're now thinking, "It's On!".

"{All in good humour, of course.}

"Vale,

"Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus"


Vale

Flavius Galerius Aurelianus

Salve Fabi Maxime!

I think that Geoffrey of Monmouth believed or at least chose to believe that the Britons were simply the descendants of the Trojans. What he was basically trying to do here was provide the Welsh people with respectable classical origins. He did actually know his classics well as is shown in his work but he was never one to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

IIRC Snorri Sturlusson did something very similar for the Norse by providing Odin and the Aesir with a pseudo-history also as Trojan refugees. Clearly the aspiration to be seen as having a Homeric pedigree motivated both Celts and Teutons in the early middle ages.

Vale!

Brutus

QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:


Hmm but what about the Celts? Did they pursue the Latins and Trojans to
Albion and destroy them? Since Caesar reported nothing but Celts in the south
of Britain, there must have been some catastrophe.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

FYI


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
Tons of coverage of a tombarolo leading archaeologists to the
site of an Etruscan tomb dubbed 'the tomb of the roaring lions':

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/17/arts/17wall.html<about:blank> (photo)
http://tinyurl.com/rp4bu<about:blank> (AFP via Yahoo)
http://tinyurl.com/p7xzf<about:blank> (AP via Yahoo ... photo)
http://tinyurl.com/mge76<about:blank> (Boston Globe)
http://tinyurl.com/ntfp5<about:blank> (CTV)
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3977603.html<about:blank>
http://tinyurl.com/q9qjh<about:blank> (LA Times)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1665374.htm<about:blank>
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=889242006<about:blank>
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2229278,00.html<about:blank>
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1800464,00.html<about:blank>
http://tinyurl.com/gw3kq<about:blank> (Bloomberg)
http://tinyurl.com/flba8<about:blank> (Guardian)
http://tinyurl.com/rx7yu<about:blank> (La Tercera ... Spanish)

.. actually, here's all the photos making the rounds:

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=etruscan&c=news_photos<about:blank>

.. and the official beniculturi announcement (and photos) in
Italian:

http://tinyurl.com/nv263<about:blank>

Similiter, plenty of coverage of the reunion of a statue of
Venus with its head at the Michael C. Carlos Museum:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199801,00.html<about:blank>
http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2006/06/13/ap2813240.html<about:blank>
http://tinyurl.com/js43b<about:blank> (USA Today ... photo of the body)
http://tinyurl.com/h9ao5<about:blank> (AP via Yahoo ... photo of head)
http://tinyurl.com/g4xve<about:blank> (CBS)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13307223/<about:blank>

.. just the photos:

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=Emory&c=news_photos<about:blank>

A Roman coin hoard from Wales:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/5089504.stm<about:blank>

A Roman mosaic from Dorchester:

http://tinyurl.com/p4f8d<about:blank> (Echo)

An inscription of Gallienus from Sostra:

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=65157<about:blank>

Interesting project to catalog all Greek antiquities in
'foreign' museums (why are journalists involved? surely enlisting
grad students would be far more appropriate):

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/news/shownews.jsp?content=e061531A<about:blank>

Latin Summer is an interesting bit of outreach:

http://tinyurl.com/puvdu<about:blank> (NWI)

Speaking of outreach, Amphora 5.1 is now online:

http://www.apaclassics.org/outreach/amphora/2006/Amphora5.1.pdf<about:blank>

A Latin program in San Jose has been saved:

http://tinyurl.com/qf94b<about:blank> (Mercury)

More coverage of that Roman/Muziris story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4970452.stm<about:blank>
http://tinyurl.com/fptp3<about:blank> (ANSA)

More on the Antikythera Mechanism:

http://www.physorg.com/news68796309.html<about:blank>
cf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism<about:blank>

Recent reviews from BMCR:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/recent.html<about:blank>

Recent reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.und.ac.za/reviews/2006.htm<about:blank>

Visit our blog:

http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism<http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism>



================================================================
Explorator is Copyright (c) 2006 David Meadows. Feel free to
distribute these listings via email to your pals, students,
teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. These
links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
by direct posting or snagging from a usenet group or some other
email source) without my express written permission. I think it
is only right that I be made aware of public fora which are
making use of content gathered in Explorator. Thanks!
================================================================








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tita Artoria Marcella <icehunter@...> wrote: Salvete omnes,

The first season of HBO's series "Rome" is being rerun Saturday nights on HBO2 at 9PM EST, starting tonight. While the show is not always historically accurate, it is a visual feast and I highly recommend it. I especially like the sets and props!

Valete,
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies fastus est.

"Now Laomedon, the wife of your son, Tithonus, rises, and rising
Drives away the night, and the black hoar-frost flees the meadows.
A shrine is said to have been dedicated to Summanus, whoever
He is, when you, Pyrrhus, were a terror to the Romans." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"It was for this reason that Pyrrhus was defeated by the Romans also
in a battle to the finish. For it was no mean or untrained army that
he had, but the mightiest of those then in existence among the Greeks
and one that had fought a great many wars; nor was it a small body of
men that was then arrayed under him, but even three times as large as
his adversary's, nor was its general any chance leader, but rather the
man whom all admit to have been the greatest of all the generals who
flourish at that same period; nor was it any inequality in the
position he occupied, nor the sudden arrival of reinforcements for the
other side, nor any other mischance or unexpected excuse for failure
that ruined the cause of Pyrrhus, but rather the wrath of the goddess
whose sanctity had been violated, a wrath of which not even Pyrrhus
himself was unaware, as Proxenus the historian relates and as Pyrrhus
himself records in his own memoirs." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus,
"Roman Antiquities" XX.10


Summanus is an old Sabine or Etruscan deity; the name, however, is
Latin, formed by assimilation from sub-mnus (cf. mane, Matuta),
signifying the god of the time before the morning. His sphere of
influence was the nocturnal heavens, thunderstorms at night being
attributed to him, those by day to Jupiter. Summanus had a temple at
Rome near the Circus Maximus, dedicated at the time of the invasion of
Italy by Pyrrhus, king of Epirus (278 BC), when a terracotta image of
the god (or of Jupiter himself) on the pediment of the Capitoline
temple was struck by lightning and hurled into the river Tiber. Here
sacrifice was offered every year to Summanus on the 20th of June,
together with cakes called summanalia baked in the form of a wheel,
supposed to be symbolical of the car o the god of the thunderbolt. In
Plautus (Bacchides iv. 8, 54), Summanus and the verb suinmanare are
used for the god of thieves and the act of stealing, with obvious
reference to Summanus as a god of night, a time favorable to thieves
and their business. His temple was struck by lightning in 197 BC,
which was the occasion for irreligious jokes.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Dionysius of Halicarnassus

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) wrote:

> Salvete omnes!
>
> I studied a lot of 20th century history in my time and am well aware
> that there were so many other regimes that outdid the nazis at times
> as far as the death count goes.
>
> I see though one big difference. With the communist regimes who were
> more into an equal distribution of wealth philosophy, they included
> all mankind in their aspirations and did not have a racial agenda.

This would be a consolation to the (black) students at Patrice Lumumba
University who were regularly beaten by _khooligani_ for their color, or
the Asians and Semites who got the same treatment where-ever they became
too noticeable to the native Slavs. But perhaps this would count as a bit
of Slavic racism rather than official Communist Party doctrine. The Jews
got picked on because they were "rootless cosmopolitans" rather than for
being explicitly Jewish, though while the USSR was sucking up to the Arabs
there were few things too bad to say about the Israelis.

-- Publius Livius Triarius

Metellus Aureliano sal.

> Do not worry overmuch about the numbers of the Caecilii
> Metelli at present since you can consider your gens and ours
> to be related in
> spirit and sentiment.

I see it this way: we are both plebeians, so we are all brothers and
sisters. It's our patrician cousins about whom we need to worry!

Vale,

Q. Caecilius Metellus

M. Hortensia P. Livio;
oh gratias tibi ago Triari for your fine knowledge of history.
It is exactly as you say & anti-semitism is on the rise again in
Russia, and I know the Russian hated the Chechen,Tatar elements of
their Empire. and just about every other non-Slav...
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

s would be a consolation to the (black) students at Patrice Lumumba

> University who were regularly beaten by _khooligani_ for their

color, or

> the Asians and Semites who got the same treatment where-ever they

became

> too noticeable to the native Slavs. But perhaps this would count

as a bit

> of Slavic racism rather than official Communist Party doctrine.

The Jews

> got picked on because they were "rootless cosmopolitans" rather

than for

> being explicitly Jewish, though while the USSR was sucking up to

the Arabs

> there were few things too bad to say about the Israelis.
>
> -- Publius Livius Triarius
>

SALVETE OMNES!

I have found lately a certain connection between the ideals of Priscus and the Satanic Bible of Anton Szandor La Vey.
I know perfectly well that Nova Roma guarantees a religious freedom to the citizens...
Tabularium/Constitution... I didn´t find any section which defines a sacrifice. I know that now you are laughing... (because it seems so obvious that it´s defined), but if the law doesn´t have any detailed mention about the matter in question, ANYTHING is indirectly allowed.
Sexual freedom... I do agree, but does it include for example a "pedofilia"?
I didn´t find any section of Tabularium which prohibits such sexual abuse of the children! Now you must be laughing again... (it seems so obvious that it´s prohibited) but once again, a law has no reference to the matter.
If Nova Roma wants to have laws, it would be better to have them actualized, modernized and real. It seems that the laws exist only to prohibit anyone to criticize them!
I was fool trying to remain in Nova Roma after the discussion of Priscus. Then I showed a constitution to one specialist of law and he agreed with me: the Tabularium doesn´t define anything concrete. It exists only to show that something, called "law", exists. Nothing more.
I will send again my resignation to the censor´s office and this time I will not change my decision.
This Tabularium is empty in contents and details!
Please try to create a law which isn´t ridiculous in modern world...
Goodbye everyone.
P.S: Don´t bother to try and respond me because I won´t read any more mail.

C.Cassius Piso




---------------------------------
Novidade no Yahoo! Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Caecilius Metellus Omnibus salutem.

> Then I showed a constitution to one
> specialist of law and he agreed with me: the Tabularium
> doesn�t define anything concrete. It exists only to show that
> something, called "law", exists. Nothing more.

Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, there you have it. We must, before we ever
write a full law, must be sure we've thought of everything, and be certain
that the obvious is obvious. I can't find fault with the latter, by any
means. However, the former causes me some trouble. Certainly our Ancestors
hadn't thought of every possibility, or perhaps even a majority of them. If
they had, a number of things would have never have happened, among them all
the legal changes created in the Late Republic.

It may well be time to recreate the wheel of our corpus juris; I'm not a
legal scholar, so I can't say for sure. Even if we are at such a time, I'm
sure we will not think of everything. If we do, we may well take our seats
next to Iuppiter himself. For now, though, I've accepted that we are, for
the most part, humans, and will likely not be taking seats alongside Mother
Ceres any time soon.

Curate!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Caecilius Metellus"
<metellus@...> wrote:

>
> Metellus Aureliano sal.
>
> > Do not worry overmuch about the numbers of the Caecilii
> > Metelli at present since you can consider your gens and ours
> > to be related in
> > spirit and sentiment.
>
> I see it this way: we are both plebeians, so we are all brothers and
> sisters. It's our patrician cousins about whom we need to worry!
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus
>

*raises a very subtle an dignified eyebrow*

*smiles faintly*

Optime vale, amice!

M. Lucretius Agricola

Farewell to you, C. Piso, good luck, and optime vale!

M. Lucretius Agricola, (who is fully confident that the Censores will
uphold the public morals, as that is one of their duties)




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, kari piessa <legio_x_equitata@...>
wrote:

>
> SALVETE OMNES!
>
> I have found lately a certain connection between the ideals of

Priscus and the Satanic Bible of Anton Szandor La Vey.

> I know perfectly well that Nova Roma guarantees a religious

freedom to the citizens...

> Tabularium/Constitution... I didn´t find any section which defines

a sacrifice. I know that now you are laughing... (because it seems so
obvious that it´s defined), but if the law doesn´t have any detailed
mention about the matter in question, ANYTHING is indirectly allowed.

> Sexual freedom... I do agree, but does it include for example a

"pedofilia"?

> I didn´t find any section of Tabularium which prohibits such

sexual abuse of the children! Now you must be laughing again... (it
seems so obvious that it´s prohibited) but once again, a law has no
reference to the matter.

> If Nova Roma wants to have laws, it would be better to have them

actualized, modernized and real. It seems that the laws exist only to
prohibit anyone to criticize them!

> I was fool trying to remain in Nova Roma after the discussion of

Priscus. Then I showed a constitution to one specialist of law and he
agreed with me: the Tabularium doesn´t define anything concrete. It
exists only to show that something, called "law", exists. Nothing more.

> I will send again my resignation to the censor´s office and this

time I will not change my decision.

> This Tabularium is empty in contents and details!
> Please try to create a law which isn´t ridiculous in modern world...
> Goodbye everyone.
> P.S: Don´t bother to try and respond me because I won´t read any

more mail.

>
> C.Cassius Piso
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Novidade no Yahoo! Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu

celular. Registre seu aparelho agora!

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> Tabularium/Constitution... I didn´t find any section which defines a sacrifice.

It wouldn't be there in any case. Sacrifices on behalf of the State are
under the jurisdiction of the Pontifices, who have neither required
nor forbidden it. Sacrifices performed by an individual are none
of our business.

> Sexual freedom... I do agree, but does it include for example a "pedofilia"?
> I didn´t find any section of Tabularium which prohibits such sexual abuse
> of the children! Now you must be laughing again...

Most of us live in countries where molesting children is prohibited. Why should
we duplicate existing laws? If every citizen of Nova Roma worked full time
writing pointless, unnecessary laws then we still wouldn't be able to match
the volume produced by our nations of residence.

Why should we squander our time on such insipid tasks?

There's nothing in the Tabularium forbidding abduction by aliens either.

> I will send again my resignation to the censor´s office

Received and processed. You are no longer a citizen.

Vale, M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Then who will protect us?
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 6/21/06, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>> There's nothing in the Tabularium forbidding abduction by aliens either.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,
I'm looking for pics about Ancient Rome, in medium or high quality,
about:

- military camps
- military tends
- war machines
- weapons and armors
- cookings and recipients
- roman houses
- thermae and acqueducts
- cloathing
- jewells
- streets
- colosseum and shows
- gladiators and ludi

I would build them by wood, smaller and running, so I need the
details.
Do you have pics or URLs for me?

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Quinctilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"When that day's sun has been received by Galatea, in her
Father's waves, and the whole world is sunk in quiet sleep,
The young man blasted by his grandfather's lightning, rises,
Ophiucus, stretching out his hands circled by twin snakes.
Phaedra's passion is known: and Theseus' wrong:
When over-credulous he condemned his son.
The pious, but doomed youth, was travelling to Troezen:
When a bull parted the waters in its path.
Fear seized the startled horses: their master restrained them
In vain, and they dragged him over crags and harsh stones.
He fell from the chariot and, limbs tangled in the reins,
Hippolytus' wounded body was carried along,
Till he gave up his spirit, to Diana's great anger.
`There's no need for grief,' said Aesculapius:
I'll restore the pious youth to life, free of wounds,
And sad fate will yield to my skill.'
Quickly he took medicines from an ivory casket,
(They had once been of aid to Glaucus' shade,
When a seer went down to cull the herbs he'd noted,
One snake having been healed by another snake),
He touched his breast three times, three times spoke
Words of healing: the youth lifted his head from the ground.
Hippolytus hid in his own sacred grove, in the depths
Of Diana's woods: he is Virbius of the Arician Lake.
But Clotho, the Fate, and Dis both grieved: she, that a life-thread
Had been re-spun, he that his realm's rights had been curtailed.
Jupiter, fearing the example set, directed his lightning
At one who employed the power of too great an art.
Phoebus, you complained: but Aesculapius is a god: be reconciled
To your father Jove: he himself did for you what he forbids to
others." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"Leukippos also was the father of Arsinoe. Apollon had sex with her,
and she bore him Asklepios. Some say, however, that Asklepios was not
born of Leukippos' daughter Arsinoe, but rather of Phlegyas' daughter
Koronis in Thessalia. Apollon fell in love with her and immediately
had intercourse with her, but she, despite her father' advice,
preferred Kaineus' son Iskhys and lived with him. When a raven told
Apollon this, he cursed it and turned it black in place of the white
it had been before, and he killed Koronis. As she was being consumed
on her funeral pyre, he snatched her baby fire and took him to the
kentauros Kheiron, who reared him and taught him medicine and hunting.
As a surgeon Asklepios became so skilled in his profession that he not
only saved lived but even revived the dead; for he had received from
Athena the blood that had coursed though the Gorgon;s veins, the
left-side portion of which he used to destroy people, but that on the
right he used for their preservation, which is how he could revive
those who had died. Zeus was afraid that men might learn the art of
medicine from Asklepios and help each other out, so he hit him with a
thunderbolt. This angered Apollon, who slew the Kyklopes, for they
designed the thunderbolt for Zeus." - Apollodorus, The Library 3.118-122

"When Apollo had made Coronis, daughter of Phlegyas, pregnant, he put
a crow in guard, so that no one should violate her. But Ischys, son of
Elatus, lay with her, and becuase of this he was killed by the
thunderbolt of Zeus. Apollo struck the pregnant Coronis, and killed
her. He took Ascelpius from her womb and reared him, but the crow who
had guarded her he turned from white to black." - Hyginus, Fabulae 202

"To Apollon and Koronis was born Asklepios, who learned from his
father many matters which pertain to the healing art, and then went on
to discover the art of surgery and the preparations of drugs and the
strength to be found in roots, and, speaking generally, he introduced
such advances into the healing art that he is honoured as if he were
its source and founder." - Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5.74.6

"Asklepios was the son of Apollon and Koronis, and since he excelled
in natural ability and sagacity of mind, he devoted himself to the
science of healing and made many discoveries which contribute to the
health of mankind. And so far did he advance along the road of fame
that, to the amazement of all, he healed many sick whose lives had
been despaired of, and for this reason it was believed that he had
brought back to life many who had died." - op. cit. 4.71.3

"Of the various Aesculapii the first is the son of Apollo, and is
worshipped by the Arcadians; he is reputed to have invented the probe
and to have been the first surgeon to employ splints. The second is
the brother of the second Mercurius; he is said to have been struck by
lightning and buried at Cynosura. The third is the son of Arsippus and
Arsinoe, and is said to have first invented the use of purges and the
extraction of teeth; this tomb and grove are shown in Arcadia, not far
from the river Lusius." - Cicero, De Natura Deorum 3.21

"The Celts, however, have another tale about these amber drops that
are carried down the current. They say they are the many tears that
Apollon shed for his son Asklepios when he visited the sacred people
of the North. He was banished from the bright sky by his father Zeus,
whom he blamed for having killed this son of his, who was borne by the
Lady Koronis in splendid Lakereia at the mouth of the Amyros." -
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.610

Coronis (or Arsinoe) became pregnant with Asclepius by Apollo but fell
in love with Ischys, son of Elatus. A crow informed Apollo of the
affair and he sent his sister, Artemis, to kill Coronis. Her body was
burned on a funeral pyre, staining the white feathers of the crows
permanently black. Apollo rescued the baby performing the first
caesarean section and gave it to the centaur Chiron to raise. Enraged
by his grief, Coronis' father Phlegyas torched the Apollonian temple
at Delphi, for which Apollo promptly killed him. Chiron taught
Asclepius the art of surgery, teaching him to be the most
well-respected doctor of his day. According to the Pythian Odes of
Pindar, Chiron also taught him the use of drugs, incantations and love
potions. In The Library, Apollodorus claimed that Athena gave him a
vial of blood from the Gorgons. Gorgon blood had magical properties:
if taken from the left side of the Gorgon, it was a fatal poison; from
the right side, the blood was capable of bringing the dead back to
life. According to some, Asclepius fought alongside the Achaeans in
the Trojan War, and cured Philoctetes of his famous snake bite.
However, others have attributed this to either Machaon or Podalirius,
Asclepius' sons, who Homer mentions repeatedly in his Iliad as
talented healers. Asclepius, on the other hand, is only referred to in
Homer in relation to Machaon and Podalirius.


Asclepius was married to Epione, with whom he had six daughters:
Hygieia, Meditrine, Panacea, Aceso, Iaso, and Aglaea, and three sons:
Machaon, Telesphoros, and Podalirius.

Asclepius' powers were not appreciated by all, and his ability to
revive the dead soon drew the ire of Zeus, who struck him down with a
thunderbolt. According to some, Zeus was angered, specifically, by
Asclepius' acceptance of money in exchange for resurrection. Others
say that Zeus killed Asclepius after he agreed to resurrect Hippolytus
at the behest of Artemis. Zeus may or may not have smote Hippolytus
with the same bolt. Either way, Asclepius' death at the hands of Zeus
illustrates man's inability to challenge the natural order that
separates mortal men from the gods.

In retaliation for Asclepius' murder at the hands of Zeus, Apollo
killed the Cyclopes, who fashioned Zeus' thunderbolts. According to
Euripides' play Alkestis, Apollo was then forced into the servitude of
Admetus for nine years. After he realized Asclepius' importance to
the world of men, Zeus placed him in the sky as the constellation
Ophiuchus. The name, "serpent-bearer," refers to the Rod of Asclepius,
which was entwined with a single serpent. This symbol has now become a
symbol for physicians across the globe. However, one should be careful
not to confuse the Staff of Asclepius, which features a single serpent
wrapped around a roughhewn branch, with the Caduceus of Mercury
(Roman), or the Karykeion of Hermes. The Caduceus, which features two
intertwined serpents (rather than the single serpent in Asclepius'
wand), as well as a pair of wings, has long been a symbol of commerce.
It is thought that the two were first confused in the seventh century
A.D., when alchemists often used the caduceus to symbolize their
association with magical or "hermetic" arts.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Apollodorus, Hyginus, Diodorus Siculus, Cicero, Apollonius
Rhodius, Wikipedia

Salve!
I travelled to France last year and we made a tour of the "Roman Provence" -
so I took quite a lot of pictures of the theatres in Orange and Arles etc.
You can have a look at http://stefanie-beer.medion-fotoalbum.de/ . Just
click on Provence holiday and mentally sort out the mass of pictures a proud
mother shoots of her only child. ;-))
I do hope it´s a help!
Vale!
L.Flavia Lectrix

-------Originalmeldung-------

Von: FAC
Datum: 06/21/06 21:53:08
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] good pics on Roma Antiqua

Salvete Omnes,
I'm looking for pics about Ancient Rome, in medium or high quality,
about:

- military camps
- military tends
- war machines
- weapons and armors
- cookings and recipients
- roman houses
- thermae and acqueducts
- cloathing
- jewells
- streets
- colosseum and shows
- gladiators and ludi

I would build them by wood, smaller and running, so I need the
details.
Do you have pics or URLs for me?

Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]