Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jul 1-19, 2006

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44562 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: HBO's Series "ROME"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44563 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44564 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44565 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44566 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: HBO's Series "ROME"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44567 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44568 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44569 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44570 From: Brutus Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris /HBO's Series "ROME"/Divus Iulius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44571 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44572 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: A reminder - Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44573 From: ladycarissastormbringer Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44574 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Re: A reminder - Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44575 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: A reminder - Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44576 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: a.d. IV Non. Quin.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44577 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44578 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44579 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44580 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44581 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44582 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44583 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: EDICTUM DE LUDI APOLLINARES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44584 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44585 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44586 From: Steve Mesnick Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44587 From: BookJunky Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44588 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44589 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Ludi Circenses
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44590 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44591 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44592 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: a.d. III Non. Quin.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44593 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44594 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776 and national trumpets
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44595 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44596 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Opening and Religious Celebrations.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44597 From: FAC Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: 4 July AD 1776 and thw FIFA World Cup Germany 2006
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44598 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: prid. Non. Quin.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44599 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44600 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-07
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44601 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-07
Subject: Non. Quin.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44602 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - ludi scaenici.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44603 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Latin Lives!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44604 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44605 From: Michael Lejeune Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Re: Latin Lives!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44606 From: C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44607 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Quin.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44608 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44609 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses quarters.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44610 From: C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44611 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44612 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: incense
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44613 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44614 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44615 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44616 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses semifinals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44617 From: cant97@hughes.net Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: incense
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44618 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44619 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44620 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44621 From: FAC Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Italy won in the modern arena
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44622 From: Tim Guerinot Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Introduction plus nice stuff
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44623 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44624 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: [SCI FI Wire] Rome Lives In Romanitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44625 From: albmd323232 Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Roman Market Days
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44626 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44627 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44628 From: royalphillie Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Newbie
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44629 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44630 From: Lucius Caecilius Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44631 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44632 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44633 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44634 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44635 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Results and Closing.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44636 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: EDICTUM CURULIS AEDILES DE LUDI VICTORIAE 2759 a.U.c
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44637 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Subscriptions are open.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44638 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Salvete [Welcome]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44639 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44640 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Request for help from a non-citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44641 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: From a non citizen,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44642 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44643 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44644 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44645 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44646 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44647 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44648 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Apollinares
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44649 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44650 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Latin question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44651 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44652 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44653 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44654 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: [SCI FI Wire] Rome Lives In Romanitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44655 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Shakespear's Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44656 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44657 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Alternate Roman History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44658 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44659 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44660 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44661 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44662 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Cultural Day of Ludi Victoriae.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44663 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Cultural Award.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44664 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: News from Factions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44665 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Alternate Roman History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44666 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: ALLONS!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44667 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44668 From: appiusclaudiuspriscus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Do citizens of NR have any rights? Or only privileges?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44669 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Do citizens of NR have any rights? Or only privileges?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44670 From: Brutus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44671 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Dextrarum iunctio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44672 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44673 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: VOX ROMANA podcast is coming!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44674 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Some words
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44675 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Call for Munera Gladiatoria.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44676 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-16
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44677 From: cant97@hughes.net Date: 2006-07-16
Subject: Hubby's Departure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44678 From: Claudio Guzzo Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44679 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44680 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44681 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44682 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44683 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44684 From: Titus Sergius Rufinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44685 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44686 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44687 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44688 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Soon, Ludi Victoriae !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44689 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44690 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44691 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44692 From: Quintus Iulius Probus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44693 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44694 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44695 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Grammar, grammar everywhere
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44696 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Call for Munera Gladiatoria.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44697 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44698 From: Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Ludi Victoriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44699 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44700 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44701 From: Daniel Yates Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Roman Funerary Practices in the British Province
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44702 From: appiusclaudiuspriscus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Notice: mail inoperative
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44703 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44704 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Notice: mail inoperative
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44705 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44706 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44707 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44708 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44709 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Hubby's Departure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44710 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44711 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44712 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Hubby's Departure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44713 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44714 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44715 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Roman Clock Widget for Mac OSX
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44716 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Mail Delays?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44717 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44718 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum/Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: the
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44719 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Only a few hours to Ludi Victoriae.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44720 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44721 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44722 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44723 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44724 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44725 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: a.d. XIV Kal. Sext.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44726 From: Claudio Guzzo Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: it was the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44727 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44728 From: Lucius Caecilius Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Roman Clock Widget for Mac OSX
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44729 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44730 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44731 From: Titus Sergius Rufinus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44732 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: To the Right Honorable James Hacker MP, PM WAY OFF TOPIC BUT FUN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44733 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: VOX ROMANA IS HERE:!!:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44734 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44735 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: To the Right Honorable James Hacker MP, PM WAY OFF TOPIC BUT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44736 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44737 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44562 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: HBO's Series "ROME"
Salvete omnes.

Where you in Repubican rome? Did you speak to the gents? Who is
talking about Caligula? I'm simply stating a historical fact that
Iulius Caesar was view as a god. His title of Pontifex Maximus aka
Great builder of bridges aka Archiereus Megistus, is hardly
inconsequencial!. We know names change and are shortened ( i,e
Augusta treverorum=Trier, Caesar Augusta=Zaragosa. Lugdunum=Lyon etc)
so, WHY is it so impossible that a title of head priest which is
archiereus megistus would mutate in time to Iesous Christos? Doesn't
the Greek word Chresto means good meritorius man, Christos anointed
man and chrestai speculator? Isn't this confusing? Obviously you are
taking the word Savior ought of context.. even republicans were
superstitious, highly religious and respected the gods!. But the
historical evidence points to Caesar as been viewed as a god and his
victories as miracles. Carotta is hardly an imbecile unless one is
infected with the neurological delusions produced by faith triggers
which blinds reason fogging the intellect.

Scholars know Caesar had a title of Archiereus ( read Roman history,
please study archaeological finds, and see the inscription on the
statue of Caesar in Cesarea maritima also study coins of the period).
Caesar build a wooden bridge over the Rhine in 10 days. This was view
as a miracle. The roman people were extremely superstitious worshiped
many gods and had a diversity of beliefs. Roman adopted many
religious practices and beliefs from the Etruscans (Augurs, auruspex
etc) Caesar was an amazing speaker since he had study rethoric. (I
suggest you look into what Cicero said about him). Historians of the
period tell us Caesar's wax image was placed on a tropaeum ( I
suggest you get educated in what a tropaeum is) during his funeral.
If you do not know what a tropaeum is I suggest you look at the
images of mosaics in Pompeii and the cuirass of the Primaporta statue
of Augustus as to understand its shape and meaning. During Caesar's
funeral a comet appeared ( the comet of 44bc) and was believe to be
the spirit of Caesar ascending to heaven. There is a denarius of
Caesar depicting his resurrection from the cremation pyre aided by an
angel figure. The symbol of the comet is depicted above some of
Caesar's coins and resembles the chi-ro used by the Catholic
Church.....unless you think Carotta planted all of those symbols and
sneaked the coins in the museums.

In 29 bce the new god and Pontifex Maximus Augustus built a temple to
Divus Iulius and if we use our reasoning abilities and deductive
thinking we can only imagine how the God Caesar was displayed in
those temples....of course we do not have photos of the event. If you
do not believe it, just go to the Roman Forum and there you'll see
the ruins of the temple to the Lord and Saviour Caesar ( remember, to
the people in those days he was such a god, since they did not speak
English or had the internet), you can even touch those ruins so you
know they are real. It is a historical fact an autopsy was performed
on the body of Caesar ( the first in history). He received 23 wounds,
but the fatal one was inflicted by one Cassius Longinus a
professional veteran of Carrhae ( Harram) were Crassus was defeated
along his son. I bet you did not know this was the first time the
Romans saw SILK, on the banners displayed by the parthian
cataphracts. Caesar was believed to be son of Venus, ( Mars lover).
His lover Cleopatra VII Eupator, he regarded as Venus, and place her
statue on the temple of Venus Genetrix .Symbols of this goddess are
stars, moon and pidgeons (doves). The facts is that despite the
claims of the Imbecile Carotta in his book Jesus was Caesar, the
historical events speak for themselves and he makes very interesting
comparisons which if you bother to study you'll realize they are
true. He is not the uneducated imbecile you think he is, after all he
is a linguist. Which he proves with the translations from the Latin
and Greek which I have checked for authenticity, with people experts
in the field ( I am not). This doesn't mean he is infallible. I
suggest you read his book and REFUTE IT providing evidence that his
claims are not accurate. I'm certain he'll appreciate the correction
as any intelligent and well educated person would. One just has to
connect the dots and see if they reflect the facts and if there is
any evidence that would make certain claims true. I suggest you
study authors's biography before making judgments on them and
reading their books, I do!). We must realize archaeology clearly
shows that temples to Divus Iulius were built all over the empire.
There used to be one in front of the Acropolis. After all, the Roman
Empire did not consist only of the Italian peninsula. The cult of
Divus Iulius must have been the most important cult of the Empire,
after all, the emperors were gods. But WHERE is the cult? how come
there are no records? We can deduct that Caesar been a conqueror and
never having lost a battle that his cult would have been equated to
that of Mithras and Sol Invictos. These religions simply disappeared
when Constantinus made the cult of a man hunging on a tropaeum,
wearing a red cloack ( not a Jewish stripped robe), a grass crown
exhibiting a wound on a side made by a man also named Longinus, the
only legal religion of the Empire!. Isn't it peculiar such important
cult as was that of Divus Iulius, has no records, despite been the
cult of such an amazing man, a hero, the inventor of the codix, the
reformer of the calendar? His god status simply disappeared from
history! Didn't Roman names had a meaning? We know that Piso means
crush per the horses mouth, the Historian Calpurnius Piso Frugi in
his book The Roman Annalistic Tradition.So, if Romans use names with
a meaning to them I do not believe the name Gaius had no meaning.
Regardless of how Latin construct proper names we know that Gaia
means earth. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and Gaius means NOTHING,
but I'm not so sure it is meaningless, specially when given to a
child believed to be the darling of Venus. It is not the Roman
tradition to give their children meaningless names. Isn't perhaps
that we see Latin with 21st Century eyes? It is important to connect
the dots to arrive at sensible truths. After all we all learn from
each other.

Vale bene cura ut valeas. Lucius Calpurnius Piso
On Jun 29, 2006, at 6:25 AM, l_fidelius_graecus wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Well I am glad we have people here that can at least see through the
> linguistic errors.
>
> > > > Many people do not realize Gaius Iulius Caesar was a god, Lord
> and savior of Rome,
>
> Those that uphold the Republican form of government vs. Imperial
> would hardly agree. Considering the many insane and destructive
> emperors that brought so much ruin to Rome (Caligula, Nero, etc) and
> proceeded from the Caesars, the title savior is hardly appropriate.
>
> > > > > Archiereus Megistus( many believe this Greek Word mutated to
> Iesous Christos)
>
> If many you mean imbeciles such as Francesco Carotta who have little
> credibility and a big axe to grind against the Christian church, then
> regrettably, yes there are many. But they are thankfully
> inconsequential.
>
> > > > > till Constantinus I over 350 years later mutated the whole
> cult into what we know today as Christianity.
>
> That would be interesting if true since he was a pagan or maybe you
> are confusing him with Dan Brown's fictional Constantine I? As most
> traditional forms of Christianity are today so-called "Pauline
> Christianity," these are based on the writings of St. Paul circa 70
> AD. As a Roman citizen, he would be well aware of the differences of
> Julius Caesar and Jesus, the latter he proclaimed divine and to who's
> established churches he was ministering to. This would be within 40
> years of the Crucifixion (that of Jesus, not Caesars) when
> Christianity spread to gentiles. It had been led in Jerusalem by
> James the Just, brother of Jesus (also son of Mary, rather than
> Marius) since the first years.
>
> The absurdities run far deeper than Hortensia Maior points out.
> Though it's interesting what we will tolerate depending on the
> context. This was a thread about HBO's Rome! An excellent program by
> the way because of it's rather accurate portrayal of history- so hard
> to come by these days.
>
> Valete,
>
> L. Fidelius Graecus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia A.Apollonio Octavioque sdp;
> > - my apologies for writing so late. Thanks for the
> > correction Corde, yes the nomen is Marius...
> > As for the rest as my friend Cordus points out it is
> > absolutely silly.
> > 'Gaius meaning son of the earth'. No such thing as Cordus
> > pointed out..Where on earth did you get your linguistic education:
> > Classic Conspiracy Comix?;-)
> > please spare us these absurdities,
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
> >
> >
> > > per ignorationem an incurian?..per utramque ut videtur! Who is
> > > talking about Marcus?? if you read my post I said
> > MARIUS!..obviously
> > > you have no idea that "US" in Latin means son of...i,e.
> > gaia=Earth.
> > > us=son of...ergo Gai-us means son of the earth....Vale.
> Calpurnius
> > Piso.
> > > On Jun 27, 2006, at 10:14 PM, Maior wrote:
> > >
> > > > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> > > > this Octavius posts utter nonsense. I'll post one
> > > > correction and leave the fun for the rest of us to refute
> > > > 1. the praenomen Marcus derives from the god Mars - it
> > > > has absolutely nothing at all to do with 'Mari'
> > > > eheu!
> > > > bene vale in pacem deorum
> > > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > > >
> > > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Octavius Giraldo-Vay" <octavius@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salve Bianchi. The series is excellent and demonstrates quite
> > > > > accurately the religious traditions and beliefs. Many people
> do
> > > > not
> > > > > realize Gaius Iulius Caesar was a god, Lord and savior of
> Rome,
> > > > was
> > > > > son of Venus, ( the symbols of venus were a star and a dove).
> > At
> > > > 18
> > > > > years old was initiated as Flamen Dialis. The name Gaius
> means
> > son
> > > > of
> > > > > the earth as Marius means son of Mari. Caesar was given later
> > in
> > > > life
> > > > > the title of Head Priest, which in Latin is Pontifex Maximus (
> > > > great
> > > > > builder of bridges who were carpenters). The intelligentsia of
> > > > Rome
> > > > > spoke Greek. Romans emulated and imitated the Greeks in about
> > > > > everything. Caesar title of head priest was in Greek
> Archiereus
> > > > > Megistus. After Caesar passion when he gave his blood for his
> > > > people,
> > > > > on the 15th of March, 44bce, his body was placed on a bier in
> > the
> > > > > shape of the temple of Venus, his mother, ready for
> cremation.
> > In
> > > > > front of the temple a wax image of this god was nailed to a
> > > > tropaeum
> > > > > ( a cross shape structure) wearing his grass crown ( corona
> > > > > quercea) , red cloack and showing the fatal wound inflicted
> by
> > a
> > > > > professional soldier he had forgiven ( Caesar was famous for
> > his
> > > > > clementiae) named Cassius Longinus. Gaius Octavius Caesar
> > > > Augustus
> > > > > the son of god, twice since his mother Attia of the Iunii had
> > > > been
> > > > > impregnated by the god Apollo, build a temple in the Roman
> > Forum
> > > > on
> > > > > 29 bce, to Divus Iulius ( the Divine Iulious Caesar) whose
> > ruins
> > > > can
> > > > > be seen today. The Cult of Divus Iulius, the Archiereus
> > Megistus
> > > > > ( many believe this Greek Word mutated to Iesous Christos) in
> > > > heaven,
> > > > > became the most important religion of the Roman Empire,
> temples
> > > > to
> > > > > the Lord and Saviour Caesar were built all over the empire.
> > There
> > > > was
> > > > > one in front of the Acropolis ( see archaeology journal Jan
> > 2005)
> > > > > till Constantinus I over 350 years later mutated the whole
> cult
> > > > into
> > > > > what we know today as Christianity. Rome is an excellent
> series
> > > > based
> > > > > on real events and follow the religious traditions of the
> > Empire.
> > > > > Some historical minutiae is not accurate like the square
> > escutum
> > > > > (shields) and other things, but the main historical content is
> > > > very
> > > > > well researched. Something I found fascinating is that one of
> > the
> > > > > main characters, a soldier named Pullio, has a similar name to
> > > > > Asinius Pollio, a friend of Caesar who wrote the Histoire and
> > > > founded
> > > > > the first public library at Rome. The series Rome ends with
> the
> > > > God
> > > > > Caesar's assassination in which he said nothing after been
> > stabbed
> > > > by
> > > > > Marcus Iunius Brutus. Some historians believe this was
> probably
> > > > the
> > > > > case. I think the series is a feast for the eyes of the
> > educated
> > > > in
> > > > > Roman history, architecture, traditions, and its numerous
> > > > religious
> > > > > beliefs and customs. I wish the numerous languages spoken in
> > Rome
> > > > > during those times were also spoken by the actors. Vale. Cura
> > ut
> > > > valeas.
> > > > > On May 31, 2006, at 2:53 PM, qbianchiusrufinus wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Salve omnes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anyone been following HBO's series "ROME"? If so, how
> > would
> > > > you
> > > > > > rate it? Is this something worth buying when released on
> DVD?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Q. Bianchius Rufinus
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44563 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
A. Apollonius L. Pisoni ceterisque sal.

> Didn't Roman names had a meaning? We know that Piso means
crush per the horses mouth, the Historian Calpurnius Piso Frugi in
his book The Roman Annalistic Tradition.So, if Romans use names with
a meaning to them I do not believe the name Gaius had no meaning.
Regardless of how Latin construct proper names we know that Gaia
means earth. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and Gaius means NOTHING,
but I'm not so sure it is meaningless, specially when given to a
child believed to be the darling of Venus. It is not the Roman
tradition to give their children meaningless names. <

On this particular point, yes, I'm afraid you are completely wrong. "Piso" is a cognomen; "Gaius" is a praenomen. The cognomen was the newest part of the Roman name: cognomina may not have been common among Roman aristocrats before the middle republic. Cognomina were usually just ordinary Latin words, so of course they had meanings which were obvious to all Romans. Praenomina, on the other hand, were the most ancient names of all. Their meanings are obscure to us today and they were also obscure to the Romans of Caesar's time. Probably they originally had meanings, but by the late republic they were just names, like John or Robert in English.

You say that "we know that Gaia means earth". It means earth in Greek, not in Latin; and even in Greek, as A. Tullia has pointed out, it was not used in this form in the Greek dialects with which the early Romans would have come into contact.

But regardless of what the praenomen "Gaius" may mean, it has no significance. You seem to think that it is significant that this name was "given to a chield believed to be the darling of Venus". There are two problems with this theory. First, there is no evidence that Caesar was "believed to be the darling of Venus" at the time of his birth. It's true that the Julii claimed to be descended from Venus, but that was true of every Julius, yet not every Julius was called Gaius. Secondly, and more importantly, Roman parents had no choice about what to call their first-born son. All a man's sons would have the same nomen and cognomen as their father. The first-born son also took the father's praenomen. The rest were given other praenomina commonly used within the family. The Julii Caesares basically used only three praenomina: Gaius, Lucius, and Sextus. Caesar's father was Gaius Julius Caesar. Caesar was his father's first son. Therefore he was named Gaius Julius Caesar. He
could never have been called anything else. There is no significance in what his parents chose to call him because his parents did not choose his name at all.

I am not a Christian and I have no ideological agenda which forces me to reject your theory. I haven't read the book you cite, or the sources it is based on, so I can't criticise it. Frankly I don't care whether Caesar was Jesus or not: I don't believe that Caesar was a god and I don't believe that Jesus was a god, so it makes very little difference to me whether they were the same person or not. But when I see someone in this forum putting forward a historical argument which I know to be incorrect, I feel it my duty to say so. I'm not a professional expert on Roman nomenclature, but it's fair to say that I have read quite a lot about it and I can assure you quite impartially and objectively that Caesar's praenomen provides not the slightest shred of evidence that he was a god or that he was believed to be a god or that his life formed the basis of the story of Jesus. I'm confident that any expert in the field of Roman nomenclature would agree.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44564 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius L. Pisoni ceterisque sal.
>
>> Didn't Roman names had a meaning? We know that Piso means
> crush per the horses mouth, the Historian Calpurnius Piso Frugi in
> his book The Roman Annalistic Tradition.So, if Romans use names with
> a meaning to them I do not believe the name Gaius had no meaning.
> Regardless of how Latin construct proper names we know that Gaia
> means earth. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and Gaius means NOTHING,
> but I'm not so sure it is meaningless, specially when given to a
> child believed to be the darling of Venus. It is not the Roman
> tradition to give their children meaningless names. <

I think that here we are running into the problem of homonyms, something
that afflicts all languages: words which happen to sound alike but are
not related in etymology or meaning. (Humans can make 50-80
distinguishable vocal sounds and even simple languages have tens of
thousands of words, so accidents like this happen all the time. We
couldn't make puns if they didn't.) In this case, all we need to do is
look at the Roman formula of marriage: "Where thou art Gaius, I am Gaia"
-- "Where you are Master, I am Mistress". Has nothing to do with the
Greek word for "Earth".

-- Publius Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44565 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> about it and I can assure you quite impartially and objectively that
> Caesar's praenomen provides not the slightest shred of evidence that he
> was a god or that he was believed to be a god or that his life formed
> the basis of the story of Jesus. I'm confident that any expert in the
> field of Roman nomenclature would agree.

Whatevr the literal meaning of his name, Augustus wouldn't have had to get
the Senate to declare him "Divus Julius" -- the divine hero Julius -- if
he had already been considered a god.

-- P. Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44566 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: HBO's Series "ROME"
Always the light touch Maior. ;)
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.


On 6/28/06, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia A.Apollonio Octavioque sdp;
>
> - my apologies for writing so late. Thanks for the
> correction Corde, yes the nomen is Marius...
> As for the rest as my friend Cordus points out it is
> absolutely silly.
> 'Gaius meaning son of the earth'. No such thing as Cordus
> pointed out..Where on earth did you get your linguistic education:
> Classic Conspiracy Comix?;-)
> please spare us these absurdities,
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44567 From: Octavius Giraldo-Vay Date: 2006-07-01
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Salve Apolloni SPD. Thank you for the information. I stand corrected
on the name Gaius as having any meaning. I was confusing the Greek
with Latin as for the meaning of Gaia!. You and I now that Caesar was
no god, but the Romans of the period knew he was one and than his
ancestors were Aeneas grandson of Venus whose son Iulus had founded
the city of Alba Longa. This according to the historian Fabius
Pictor. One must realize that to us in this 21st Century all of it is
myth, but it was not to the ancient Romans. They breathe
superstition, their pantheism was amazing , and signs from the gods
were a daily occurrence, so much so that they created a calendar for
worshiping the gods at the proper time!. It was their life. This is
very well demonstrated in the HBO series ROME. Obviously you
misunderstood what I said, or I did not made myself clear perhaps. I
know Romans had tria nomina, and I did not mean to say that Caesar
prenom Gaius was indicative of him been a god! Tria nomina doesn't
not indicate divinity. Alas, the name Gaius were common in those
times. I merely said in error, that since Gaia ( a Greek name) meant
earth, and since any educated Roman aristocrat spoke Greek and
imitated them (After all Aeneas was Greek) and "us" means son of, it
seemed logical Gaius could mean son of the earth. This has nothing to
do with him been a god or not, for he was regarded and worshiped as
such in the Divus Iulius cult created by Divi Filius Gaius Octavius
Augustus when the temple to God Iulius Caesar was built in 29bce.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the name Octavianus means son of
Octavius?I assure you I'm not saying this name indicates he was a god
either, but wasn't his mother Attia believe to have been impregnated
by Apollo and had a virgin birth? This clearly would make Octavius a
candidate for double divinity. He was the son of two gods, Apollo and
Divus Iulius.! It is of no wonder that the God Caesar had temples
all over the empire and his successors where, as head priests, also
worshiped as gods. He seemed to have been the most important god of
them all, along Iuppiter Optimus Maximus. Though every Iulian was
descendant from venus only Caesar was important enough to make that
claim of divinity stick in the eyes of the people of the time.

Going back to names, I'm certain in those ancient days the plebes did
not follow the perfect grammatical rules of Latin or Greek, as
scholars do today! I agree with you that meanings of names were
obscure, some originating from the very obscure Oscan language which
Latin absorbed, some from the Faliscan ,some from the Umbrian and
others from the Rasnan (the name the Etruscan called themselves) . I
appreciate the correction, we are here to learn. Gratias tibi ago.
Vale bene .cura ut valeas. Lucius Calpurnius Piso

On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:44 AM, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius L. Pisoni ceterisque sal.
>
> > Didn't Roman names had a meaning? We know that Piso means
> crush per the horses mouth, the Historian Calpurnius Piso Frugi in
> his book The Roman Annalistic Tradition.So, if Romans use names with
> a meaning to them I do not believe the name Gaius had no meaning.
> Regardless of how Latin construct proper names we know that Gaia
> means earth. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and Gaius means NOTHING,
> but I'm not so sure it is meaningless, specially when given to a
> child believed to be the darling of Venus. It is not the Roman
> tradition to give their children meaningless names. <
>
> On this particular point, yes, I'm afraid you are completely wrong.
> "Piso" is a cognomen; "Gaius" is a praenomen. The cognomen was the
> newest part of the Roman name: cognomina may not have been common
> among Roman aristocrats before the middle republic. Cognomina were
> usually just ordinary Latin words, so of course they had meanings
> which were obvious to all Romans. Praenomina, on the other hand,
> were the most ancient names of all. Their meanings are obscure to
> us today and they were also obscure to the Romans of Caesar's time.
> Probably they originally had meanings, but by the late republic
> they were just names, like John or Robert in English.
>
> You say that "we know that Gaia means earth". It means earth in
> Greek, not in Latin; and even in Greek, as A. Tullia has pointed
> out, it was not used in this form in the Greek dialects with which
> the early Romans would have come into contact.
>
> But regardless of what the praenomen "Gaius" may mean, it has no
> significance. You seem to think that it is significant that this
> name was "given to a chield believed to be the darling of Venus".
> There are two problems with this theory. First, there is no
> evidence that Caesar was "believed to be the darling of Venus" at
> the time of his birth. It's true that the Julii claimed to be
> descended from Venus, but that was true of every Julius, yet not
> every Julius was called Gaius. Secondly, and more importantly,
> Roman parents had no choice about what to call their first-born
> son. All a man's sons would have the same nomen and cognomen as
> their father. The first-born son also took the father's praenomen.
> The rest were given other praenomina commonly used within the
> family. The Julii Caesares basically used only three praenomina:
> Gaius, Lucius, and Sextus. Caesar's father was Gaius Julius Caesar.
> Caesar was his father's first son. Therefore he was named Gaius
> Julius Caesar. He
> could never have been called anything else. There is no
> significance in what his parents chose to call him because his
> parents did not choose his name at all.
>
> I am not a Christian and I have no ideological agenda which forces
> me to reject your theory. I haven't read the book you cite, or the
> sources it is based on, so I can't criticise it. Frankly I don't
> care whether Caesar was Jesus or not: I don't believe that Caesar
> was a god and I don't believe that Jesus was a god, so it makes
> very little difference to me whether they were the same person or
> not. But when I see someone in this forum putting forward a
> historical argument which I know to be incorrect, I feel it my duty
> to say so. I'm not a professional expert on Roman nomenclature, but
> it's fair to say that I have read quite a lot about it and I can
> assure you quite impartially and objectively that Caesar's
> praenomen provides not the slightest shred of evidence that he was
> a god or that he was believed to be a god or that his life formed
> the basis of the story of Jesus. I'm confident that any expert in
> the field of Roman nomenclature would agree.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44568 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006, Octavius Giraldo-Vay wrote:

> earth, and since any educated Roman aristocrat spoke Greek and
> imitated them (After all Aeneas was Greek)

YEEEK!!

Aeneas was a _Trojan_!!!

-- P. Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44569 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
Eheu Triare;
it is Classic Conspiracy Comix..;-
Octavi- now you see why I was so sarcastic. You are embarassing
yourself. For goodness sake stop obsessing about Jesus & read a decent
history of Julius Caesar - one that's has real facts in it.
vale
M Hortensia Maior
> > earth, and since any educated Roman aristocrat spoke Greek and
> > imitated them (After all Aeneas was Greek)
>
> YEEEK!!
>
> Aeneas was a _Trojan_!!!
>
> -- P. Livius Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44570 From: Brutus Date: 2006-07-02
Subject: Re: De Caesaris /HBO's Series "ROME"/Divus Iulius
Salvete Omnes!

IÂ’m a bit wary of getting involved in this one in case of nastiness but here goes anyway! First of all I do honour and revere CaesarÂ’s memory. I light some incense and pour out a cup of wine on the Ides of March. I guess I do consider him to be a God but I think this term in the Roman context needs a bit of explanation. ItÂ’s not my place to attack anyone elseÂ’s sincerely held beliefs but I certainly donÂ’t think that he is Jesus. Indeed I find this need to equate two clearly different figures with one another to be rather perplexing. Caesar doesnÂ’t need Jesus and neither with the greatest respect does Jesus need him.

Now regarding Caesar as Divus Iulius. All things exist as the result of the action of the Gods (as the result of natural processes if you prefer). This Divine action leaves behind it a residue of the Divine, a sacred footprint which is ‘numen’. Humans are no exception to this process and also contain this residue which makes us unique, separate and therefore divine. I don’t want to get into Caesar’s particular virtues and flaws and certainly not into the politics of the Late Republic but it must be recognised that he was an exceptional human being who made an enormous impact not only on the people around him but upon the world in general. Obviously there are many other historical figures of whom this could also be said.

Roman religion nearly always involved the reverence and propitiation of deceased humans, of Lares and Manes. D***h is not an end and the Ancestors are always with us. In this context it is utterly natural to remember the exceptional individuals in an exceptional fashion. Roman domestic worship centred around such practices with the honouring of the familyÂ’s Lar Familiaris and it takes no great leap of logic to identify individuals that serve similar roles for the wider community. Caesar is one such but remember that there were important pre-existing cults that revered Aeneas and Romulus for example. The legalistic recognition by the Senate of Divine status in the deification of Caesar, of Augustus and Livia and so on is just that - legalism. A public and administrative recognition that a particular individual is worthy of divine honours and a commitment on the part of the state to participate. I think that a modern Christian would see a parallel in the PapacyÂ’s process of
canonisation. What makes a Saint is the individualÂ’s faith, their and relationship with their God and their consequent virtues and actions. The public process is simply a recognition of this.

God is a difficult term for us because it has become hopelessly bound up with the Judaic, Christian and Islamic identification of their own particular Deity as the only one - a situation accentuated by the reluctance to actually use His name. I suppose using a name implies on a certain level that YHWH is one God among many needing to be differentiated from the others rather than a single and omnipotent entity needing no such qualification. Originally I think the term had a much less precise meaning and referred to an acknowledgment on the part of the believer that the subject of worship was divine and worthy of that worship (we're back into linguistics and the interrelationships of words here again). It is in this context that I and others feel that it is appropriate to honour deceased individuals as ‘Gods’.

I am conscious that many Nova Romans are not Pagans and I do sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone with this statement of my own personal beliefs regarding this matter or my references to other religions. If I have done so rest assured it was never my intention.

Valete!

Caius Moravius Brutus


Octavius Giraldo-Vay <octavius@...> wrote: Salve Apolloni SPD. Thank you for the information. I stand corrected
on the name Gaius as having any meaning. I was confusing the Greek
with Latin as for the meaning of Gaia!. You and I now that Caesar was
no god, but the Romans of the period knew he was one and than his
ancestors were Aeneas grandson of Venus whose son Iulus had founded
the city of Alba Longa. This according to the historian Fabius
Pictor. One must realize that to us in this 21st Century all of it is
myth, but it was not to the ancient Romans. They breathe
superstition, their pantheism was amazing , and signs from the gods
were a daily occurrence, so much so that they created a calendar for
worshiping the gods at the proper time!. It was their life. This is
very well demonstrated in the HBO series ROME. Obviously you
misunderstood what I said, or I did not made myself clear perhaps. I
know Romans had tria nomina, and I did not mean to say that Caesar
prenom Gaius was indicative of him been a god! Tria nomina doesn't
not indicate divinity. Alas, the name Gaius were common in those
times. I merely said in error, that since Gaia ( a Greek name) meant
earth, and since any educated Roman aristocrat spoke Greek and
imitated them (After all Aeneas was Greek) and "us" means son of, it
seemed logical Gaius could mean son of the earth. This has nothing to
do with him been a god or not, for he was regarded and worshiped as
such in the Divus Iulius cult created by Divi Filius Gaius Octavius
Augustus when the temple to God Iulius Caesar was built in 29bce.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the name Octavianus means son of
Octavius?I assure you I'm not saying this name indicates he was a god
either, but wasn't his mother Attia believe to have been impregnated
by Apollo and had a virgin birth? This clearly would make Octavius a
candidate for double divinity. He was the son of two gods, Apollo and
Divus Iulius.! It is of no wonder that the God Caesar had temples
all over the empire and his successors where, as head priests, also
worshiped as gods. He seemed to have been the most important god of
them all, along Iuppiter Optimus Maximus. Though every Iulian was
descendant from venus only Caesar was important enough to make that
claim of divinity stick in the eyes of the people of the time.

Going back to names, I'm certain in those ancient days the plebes did
not follow the perfect grammatical rules of Latin or Greek, as
scholars do today! I agree with you that meanings of names were
obscure, some originating from the very obscure Oscan language which
Latin absorbed, some from the Faliscan ,some from the Umbrian and
others from the Rasnan (the name the Etruscan called themselves) . I
appreciate the correction, we are here to learn. Gratias tibi ago.
Vale bene .cura ut valeas. Lucius Calpurnius Piso

On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:44 AM, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius L. Pisoni ceterisque sal.
>
> > Didn't Roman names had a meaning? We know that Piso means
> crush per the horses mouth, the Historian Calpurnius Piso Frugi in
> his book The Roman Annalistic Tradition.So, if Romans use names with
> a meaning to them I do not believe the name Gaius had no meaning.
> Regardless of how Latin construct proper names we know that Gaia
> means earth. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and Gaius means NOTHING,
> but I'm not so sure it is meaningless, specially when given to a
> child believed to be the darling of Venus. It is not the Roman
> tradition to give their children meaningless names. <
>
> On this particular point, yes, I'm afraid you are completely wrong.
> "Piso" is a cognomen; "Gaius" is a praenomen. The cognomen was the
> newest part of the Roman name: cognomina may not have been common
> among Roman aristocrats before the middle republic. Cognomina were
> usually just ordinary Latin words, so of course they had meanings
> which were obvious to all Romans. Praenomina, on the other hand,
> were the most ancient names of all. Their meanings are obscure to
> us today and they were also obscure to the Romans of Caesar's time.
> Probably they originally had meanings, but by the late republic
> they were just names, like John or Robert in English.
>
> You say that "we know that Gaia means earth". It means earth in
> Greek, not in Latin; and even in Greek, as A. Tullia has pointed
> out, it was not used in this form in the Greek dialects with which
> the early Romans would have come into contact.
>
> But regardless of what the praenomen "Gaius" may mean, it has no
> significance. You seem to think that it is significant that this
> name was "given to a chield believed to be the darling of Venus".
> There are two problems with this theory. First, there is no
> evidence that Caesar was "believed to be the darling of Venus" at
> the time of his birth. It's true that the Julii claimed to be
> descended from Venus, but that was true of every Julius, yet not
> every Julius was called Gaius. Secondly, and more importantly,
> Roman parents had no choice about what to call their first-born
> son. All a man's sons would have the same nomen and cognomen as
> their father. The first-born son also took the father's praenomen.
> The rest were given other praenomina commonly used within the
> family. The Julii Caesares basically used only three praenomina:
> Gaius, Lucius, and Sextus. Caesar's father was Gaius Julius Caesar.
> Caesar was his father's first son. Therefore he was named Gaius
> Julius Caesar. He
> could never have been called anything else. There is no
> significance in what his parents chose to call him because his
> parents did not choose his name at all.
>
> I am not a Christian and I have no ideological agenda which forces
> me to reject your theory. I haven't read the book you cite, or the
> sources it is based on, so I can't criticise it. Frankly I don't
> care whether Caesar was Jesus or not: I don't believe that Caesar
> was a god and I don't believe that Jesus was a god, so it makes
> very little difference to me whether they were the same person or
> not. But when I see someone in this forum putting forward a
> historical argument which I know to be incorrect, I feel it my duty
> to say so. I'm not a professional expert on Roman nomenclature, but
> it's fair to say that I have read quite a lot about it and I can
> assure you quite impartially and objectively that Caesar's
> praenomen provides not the slightest shred of evidence that he was
> a god or that he was believed to be a god or that his life formed
> the basis of the story of Jesus. I'm confident that any expert in
> the field of Roman nomenclature would agree.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44571 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Re: De Caesaris praenomine (ERAT: HBO's Series "ROME")
A. Apollonius L. Pisoni ceterisque sal.

I apologize if I misunderstood the implication of your comments about Caesar's praenomen. Since you mentioned it in the context of your argument about Caesar and Jesus, I assumed it had some relevance to that argument.

You ask, "Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the name Octavianus means son of
Octavius? I assure you I'm not saying this name indicates he was a god
either, but wasn't his mother Attia believe to have been impregnated
by Apollo and had a virgin birth? This clearly would make Octavius a
candidate for double divinity. He was the son of two gods, Apollo and
Divus Iulius.!"

The short answer is that "Octavianus" does not mean "son of Octavius". When a Roman was adopted, he changed his name to the name of his adoptive father. C. Octavius was adopted by C. Caesar in the latter's will, so he took the latter's name and became C. Julius Caesar. To commemorate the fact that he had not always had that name, he was sometimes given an extra adoptive cognomen. This was common practice in those times. The adoptive cognomen was formed by taking his original nomen (before adoption) and replacing the ending -ius with the ending -ianus. So "C. Julius Caesar Octavianus" means "C. Julius Caesar who used to be Octavius". Similarly P. Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus is P. Cornelius Scipio who used to be Aemilius.

The story that Atia was made pregnant by Apollo is not attested before Suetonius, who wrote at least 150 years after C. Octavius was born. Suetonius says he found the story in a book by Asclepius of Mendes. Asclepius was, it seems, an Egyptian metaphysician. Suetonius' wording makes it clear that the story was not widely known: he says "there is a story which I found in a book by Asclepius..." (Suet. Aug. 94). So it's unlikely that this story was common in Suetonius' own time. There is no evidence at all that the story was known in the time of Octavius himself.

Moreover, we have good reason to doubt that it was. This Egyptian Asclepius is not cited by any authors earlier than Suetonius, so his book cannot be securely dated. He wrote a book about Egypt and a book about Ogyges. He also wrote one "on the agreement among the different religions". This is probably the same book which Suetonius read, and which he calls "Theologumena". The description of the book's subject-matter strongly suggests that its purpose was to demonstrate the similarities between various religions. If this was its purpose, then the book was clearly tendentious and should be treated with caution, especially where we find that it contains otherwise unattested anecdotes which support its central argument.

In short, there is no reliable evidence that Octavius' contemporaries had ever heard this story that Octavius was the son of Apollo. All the contemporary evidence shows that he was believed to be the son of C. Octavius, praetor in 61 B.C. The only evidence of the Apollo story comes from a source more than 150 years after the event and is drawn from the writings of an obscure Egyptian philosopher who used it to support his peculiar theological agenda.

Finally, even Suetonius says nothing about a virgin birth. In fact this cannot possibly be true: before she conceived Octavius Atia had already given birth to his elder sister Octavia. So unless Atia had *two* virgin births, she was not a virgin by the time she conceived Octavius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44572 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: A reminder - Ludi
SALVETE !

In this month, the Aediles united Cohors will organize Ludi Victoriae.
This message is just to remind you to prepare yours gladiators,
chariots- contact the Domines Factiones - and of course yours pens for
Cultural Award. More information about the program will come soon.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS, EQUITIUS CATO.
Curule Aediles.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44573 From: ladycarissastormbringer Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Parthenon Trip Notes
Salvete Omnes!

Si valetis valeo!

I can't think of words to describe how wonderful this weekend was.
My big brother's directions were right on the money, and we had no
trouble getting to Nashville. He met us at the Macaroni Grill and
gifted me with a small burner that I plan to make use of real soon.
We were joined by Lucia, Mania and Violentilla. We were all wearing
our garb, so I had a little fun telling the staff there..."Don't
mind us. We're just the invading Romans." Lunch was terrific. Lucia
inspired me to have the mushroon ravioli, and it was delicious!
Thanks, Sissa!

After lunch, we went to the Parthenon. They have a wonderful shop
there where you can buy statuettes, t-shirts, mugs and many other
things. Some of the locals thought Flavius and Lucia were tour
guides! Hey, they looked the part!

For those of you who do not know me, I only stand 4'11". When I went
into the main room and saw that statue of the Goddess towering above
me at over 40 feet tall...I was truly in awe. She was magnificent.
The pictures I took can in no way do Her justice. We prayed and took
pictures, then made our way back outside where Flavius was waiting.
He was kind enough to go ahead and do the Kalends ritual for us
while we were inside. Unfortunately I lost my temper at two
Christians who interrupted our offerings outside by praying very
loudly next to us. Normally, I'm not so easy to offend, but this was
very important to me, so I was in no mood for their rudeness.

We next went to the statue of Mars Victor. We got to offer prayers
and incense without interruption there, and my hubby took more
pictures of us. The statue was very well done, and I enjoyed getting
to pray in peace for my hubby's safe return from Kuwait.

After visiting Mars Pater, we went to a small Spring that Flavius
helps look after. It was social time now, and we all chatted and got
to know eachother better.

After the spring, we changed back into our street clothes and went
to dinner at a German restaurant. The food was great, and we got to
listen to an Oompa band. Some of us even got up and joined in this
funny little dance.

Lucia and her hubby were kind enough to put us up for the night. The
next morning we went to a nice mom and pop place for brunch then we
went to a park and fed the fish and ducks before going to see the
Eternal Flame, an independence memorial in the park.

I want to deeply thank the members of my gens for showing up and
joining me. This is a memory I will always treasure, and even though
I'll miss my husband, I know that my gens will be there for me.

It's a good day to be a Roman.

Optima Vale,

Gaia Galeria Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44574 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-03
Subject: Re: A reminder - Ludi
F. Galerius Aurelianus fl Cer S.P.D.

Just a reminder to the aediles that a couple of months ago I asked their
assistance on behalf of Tb. Galerius Paulinus Praetor to help organize the Ludi
Apollinares. I hope the aediles will contact the Praetor to assist him.
Traditionally, the Praetor Urbanus sponsored the Games of Apollo and conducted
the opening caerimonia. I hope that the games will be well done.

Vadite in pace Cereris.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44575 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: A reminder - Ludi
SALVE !

Sure. Our answer it was an affirmative one. I will contact Praetor Urbanus for program today.

VALE,
IVL SABINVS

PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
F. Galerius Aurelianus fl Cer S.P.D.

Just a reminder to the aediles that a couple of months ago I asked their
assistance on behalf of Tb. Galerius Paulinus Praetor to help organize the Ludi
Apollinares. I hope the aediles will contact the Praetor to assist him.
Traditionally, the Praetor Urbanus sponsored the Games of Apollo and conducted
the opening caerimonia. I hope that the games will be well done.

Vadite in pace Cereris.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








NOVA ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44576 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: a.d. IV Non. Quin.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IV Nonas Quinctilis; haec dies nefastus est.

"I believe myself to be right in suspecting that, even if Fortune and
Virtue are engaged in a direct and continual strife and discord with
each other, yet, at least for such a welding together of dominion and
power, it is likely that they suspended hostilities and joined forces;
and by joining forces they co-operated in completing this most
beautiful of human works. Even as Plato asserts that the entire
universe arose from fire and earth as the first and necessary
elements, that it might become visible and tangible, fearth
contributing to it weight and stability, and fire contributing colour,
form, and movement; but the medial elements, water and air, by
softening and quenching the dissimilarity of both extremes, united
them and brought about the composite nature of Matter through them; in
this way, then, in my opinion, did Time lay the foundation for the
Roman State and, with the help of God, so combine and join together
Fortune and Virtue that, by taking the peculiar qualities of each, he
might construct for all mankind a Hearth, in truth both holy and
beneficent, a steadfast cable, a principle abiding for ever, "an
anchorage from the swell and drift," as Democritus says, amid the
shifting conditions of human affairs. For even as the physicists
assert that the world was in ancient days not a world nor were the
atoms willing to coalesce and mix together and bestow a universal form
upon Nature, but, since the atoms, which were yet small and were being
borne hither and thither, kept eluding and escaping incorporation and
entanglement, and the larger, close-compacted atoms bwere already
engaging in terrific struggles and confusion among themselves, there
was pitching and tossing, and all things were full of destruction and
drift and wreckage until such time as the earth, by acquiring
magnitude from the union of the wandering atoms, somehow came to be
permanently abiding herself, and provided a permanent abode in herself
and round about herself for the other elements; even so, while the
mightiest powers and dominions among men were being driven about as
Fortune willed, and were continuing to collide one with another
because no one held the supreme power, but all wished to hold it, the
continuous movement, drift, and change of all peoples remained without
remedy, until such time as Rome acquired strength and growth, and had
attached to herself not only the nations and peoples within her own
borders, but also royal dominions of foreign peoples beyond the seas,
and thus the affairs of this vast empire gained stability and
security, since the supreme government, which never knew reverse, was
brought within an orderly and single cycle of peace; for though Virtue
in every form was inborn who contrived these things, yet great Good
Fortune was also joined therewith, as it will be possible to
demonstrate as the discourse proceeds." - Plutarch, "On the Fortune of
The Romans" II

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Plutarch
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44577 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: 4 July AD 1776
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one
people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with
another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and
equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle
them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they
should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall
seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in
General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the
world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by the
Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and
declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free
and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to
the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and
the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and
that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War,
conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all
other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And
for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." - Declaration of
Independence, issued by the Second Continental Congress on 4 July AD 1776

On this day the United States observes the celebration of its
independence from the British Crown.

On June 11, AD 1776, a committee consisting of John Adams of
Massachusetts, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Thomas Jefferson of
Virginia, Robert R. Livingston of New York, and Roger Sherman of
Connecticut (the "Committee of Five"), was formed to draft a suitable
declaration to frame this resolution. The committee decided that
Jefferson would write the draft, which he showed to Franklin and
Adams, who made several minor corrections. Jefferson then produced
another copy incorporating these changes, and the committee presented
this copy to the Continental Congress on June 28, 1776.

"It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts
of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and
parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and
illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this
time forward forever more." - John Adams, in a letter to his wife Abigail

Independence was declared on July 2, 1776, pursuant to the "Lee
Resolution" presented to the Continental Congress by Richard Henry Lee
of Virginia on June 7, 1776, which read (in part): "Resolved: That
these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and
independent States, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the
British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the
State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."

The full Declaration was rewritten somewhat in general session prior
to its adoption by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, at the
Pennsylvania State House. Word of the declaration reached London on
August 10.

Because it is dated July 4, 1776, many people believe it was signed on
that date — but it was actually signed on August 2 by most of the
delegates. The Liberty Bell was not rung to celebrate independence,
but to call the local inhabitants to hear the reading of the document
on July 8 - it acquired its name during the years before the US Civil
War when it was rung to call together meetings of abolitionists in
Philadelphia.

In 1777, British officers noted the firing of 13 guns, once at morning
and again as evening fell, on July 4 in Bristol, Rhode Island.
Philadelphia celebrated the first anniversary in a manner a modern
American would find quite familiar: an official dinner for the
Continental Congress, toasts, 13-gun salutes, speeches, prayers,
music, parades, troop reviews and fireworks. Ships were decked with
red, white and blue bunting. In 1778, General George Washington
marked the Fourth with a double ration of rum for his soldiers and an
artillery salute. Across the sea, ambassadors John Adams and Benjamin
Franklin held a dinner for their fellow Americans in Paris, France.

Despite the genesis of Independence Day, it is largely uncommon for
Americans to express anti-British sentiment on the day or to view it
as a celebration of anti-colonialism. Indeed, most Americans today
consider the United Kingdom their greatest ally. Rather than
specifically as an opportunity to commemorate the end of British rule
in the 18th century, contemporary Americans generally perceive the
holiday as a celebration of the U.S. itself and the political values
that motivated the United States Declaration of Independence,
including explicit principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness, and implicit ones of democracy, liberty, freedom, and
equality under the law.

Valete bene - and Happy Fourth of July!

Cato



SOURCES

Declaration of Independence, David McCullough "John Adams", Wikipedia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44578 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
A. Apollonius C. Galeriae ceterisque sal.

> It's a good day to be a Roman. <

Cottidie bonum est Romanus esse. :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44579 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, gequitiuscato wrote:

[a concise history of the Declaration of Independence, with a comment that
anti-British sentiment is now nearly extinct over here.]

Hence the banner the British Embassy displayed one year on 4 July:

"Happy Birthday, America! -- Love, Mum"

-- P Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44580 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Salvete omnes,

Well the British learned much from the American Revolution and
seeing some trouble possibly rising in Canada or talk here of being
annexed by the states, they, under the advice of the Lord Durham
report,gave Canada responsible government and nationhood by 1867.
Canada has kept her ties with the British crown since then and even
on my 1975 passport, a note says a Canadian citizen is a British
subject so even today I am entitled to get help from a British
embassy or consulate if no Canadian one is available.

Furthermore, in most cases Britain was smart enough to leave her
colonies on the "crest of the wave" and for that reason we still
have the British Commonwealth today showing that there was far less
animosity toward this mother country than that found with other
colonial powers.

Anyway, happy birthday to the US today and I'll have to ask my
American friends here not to beat me to a pulp like Gene Hackman's
sheriff character did to Richard Harris's character," English Bob "
in the movie the "Unforgiven" for praising and exhalting the English
monarchy; especially on Independence Day!

Regards,

QSP

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, dicconf <dicconf@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, gequitiuscato wrote:
>
> [a concise history of the Declaration of Independence, with a
comment that
> anti-British sentiment is now nearly extinct over here.]
>
> Hence the banner the British Embassy displayed one year on 4 July:
>
> "Happy Birthday, America! -- Love, Mum"
>
> -- P Livius Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44581 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
P. Memmius Albucius Catoni omnibusque s.d.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

(...)

> "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one
> people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them
with
> another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate
and
> equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God
entitle
> them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they
> should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
(..)
> Despite the genesis of Independence Day, it is largely uncommon for
> Americans to express anti-British sentiment on the day or to view it
> as a celebration of anti-colonialism. Indeed, most Americans today
> consider the United Kingdom their greatest ally. Rather than
> specifically as an opportunity to commemorate the end of British
rule
> in the 18th century, contemporary Americans generally perceive the
> holiday as a celebration of the U.S. itself and the political values
> that motivated the United States Declaration of Independence,
> including explicit principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of
> happiness, and implicit ones of democracy, liberty, freedom, and
> equality under the law.
>
> Valete bene - and Happy Fourth of July!


Splendidus, care Cato.

But what relation with Nova Roma and romanity ? ;-)

Vale,

P. Memmius Albucius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44582 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Salvete,

I thought our legions reported the Brits had no
monarchy - just unorganized war-chiefs with blue skin.
Aren't our Welsh spies reliable? ;-)

As the Romans said, "down with the brits, up with the
eagles!"


--- "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
<mjk@...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> Well the British learned much from the American
> Revolution and
> seeing some trouble possibly rising in Canada or
> talk here of being
> annexed by the states, they, under the advice of the
> Lord Durham
> report,gave Canada responsible government and
> nationhood by 1867.
> Canada has kept her ties with the British crown
> since then and even
> on my 1975 passport, a note says a Canadian citizen
> is a British
> subject so even today I am entitled to get help from
> a British
> embassy or consulate if no Canadian one is
> available.
>
> Furthermore, in most cases Britain was smart enough
> to leave her
> colonies on the "crest of the wave" and for that
> reason we still
> have the British Commonwealth today showing that
> there was far less
> animosity toward this mother country than that found
> with other
> colonial powers.
>
> Anyway, happy birthday to the US today and I'll have
> to ask my
> American friends here not to beat me to a pulp like
> Gene Hackman's
> sheriff character did to Richard Harris's
> character," English Bob "
> in the movie the "Unforgiven" for praising and
> exhalting the English
> monarchy; especially on Independence Day!
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, dicconf
> <dicconf@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, gequitiuscato wrote:
> >
> > [a concise history of the Declaration of
> Independence, with a
> comment that
> > anti-British sentiment is now nearly extinct over
> here.]
> >
> > Hence the banner the British Embassy displayed one
> year on 4 July:
> >
> > "Happy Birthday, America! -- Love, Mum"
> >
> > -- P Livius Triarius
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>


A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem. - Horace

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44583 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: EDICTUM DE LUDI APOLLINARES
SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

Ex Officio Praetor Urbanus.
Ex Officio Curule Aediles.

EDICTUM DE LUDI APOLLINARES 2759 a.U.c
1. According to the Official Calendar of NOVA ROMA festivals, from
July 6th to July 13th, Ludi Apollinares will be celebrated.

2. The celebration will be held in honour of Apollo. The events and
the games are organized by the Praetorian Cohors and Curulis Aediles
Cohors.

3.We, Praetor Urbanus, Curulis Aediles and our Cohors, have the
honour to present the Ludi Apollinares program :

1.July 6th :
- Opening.
- Religious Celebrations.

2.July 7th :
- Ludi Apollinares - history.

3.July 8th :
- Ludi Scaenici.

4.July 9th :
- Venationes.( Subscriptions are admitted until July 7th. - 24.00
Roman time ).

5.July 10th :
- Ludi Circenses ( quarters ).( Subscriptions are admitted until
July 7th. - 24.00 Roman time ).

6.July 11th :
- Ludi Circenses ( semifinals ).

7.July 12th :
- Ludi Circenses ( finals )

8.July 13th :
- Results and close.

4. The extended program of ludi, including all the informations
that are needed, are presented in the Ludi Apollinares website :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/indexapollo.htm

5. This Edictum takes force immediately.
Given by Praetor Urbanus and Curule Aediles, ante diem IV Non.
Qvintiles 2759 a.U.c in the consulship of G. Fabius Buteo Modianus
and P.Tiberia Strabo.

VALETE.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44584 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
Cn. Lentulus A. Apollonio amico suo sal.:

>>> "It's a good day to be a Roman."

Cottidie bonum est Romanus esse. :) <<<

That you wrote, amice amplissime, is rather: "Every day it's good to be a Roman." The more correct translation is:

Hodie bonum est esse Romanum.

(Romanum, because "bonum est esse..." needs the accusativus cum infinitivo construction, that's why it is in accusative.)

Fac ut valeas!

LENTVLVS




Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44585 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
Salve Albuci,

P.Memmius Albucius wrote:

> But what relation with Nova Roma and romanity ? ;-)

A fair question. I'd suggest that it marks the beginning of the first
large-scale attempt at republican government since the end of the Roman
republic in 31 BCE.

I hope that you will share a similar post with us on the 14th, in
commemoration of Bastille Day, to explain the things that led to that
historic day in 1789.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44586 From: Steve Mesnick Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
> Anyway, happy birthday to the US today and I'll have to ask my
> American friends here not to beat me to a pulp like Gene Hackman's
> sheriff character did to Richard Harris's character," English Bob "
> in the movie the "Unforgiven" for praising and exhalting the English
> monarchy; especially on Independence Day!

Don't worry, Cousin, all is forgiven.

God save the Queen!

"True patriot love, in all your sons, command."

A. Tullius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44587 From: BookJunky Date: 2006-07-04
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
As someone new to the group I must say it sounds like a fine time was had by all. I had the chance to visit the Parthenon there in 1970 and it left a very lasting impression. I think everyone who has an appreciation of the classics should have a chance to visit that wonderful structure.

Pat


ladycarissastormbringer <cant97@...> wrote:
Salvete Omnes!

Si valetis valeo!

I can't think of words to describe how wonderful this weekend was.
My big brother's directions were right on the money, and we had no
trouble getting to Nashville. He met us at the Macaroni Grill and
gifted me with a small burner that I plan to make use of real soon.
We were joined by Lucia, Mania and Violentilla. We were all wearing
our garb, so I had a little fun telling the staff there..."Don't
mind us. We're just the invading Romans." Lunch was terrific. Lucia
inspired me to have the mushroon ravioli, and it was delicious!
Thanks, Sissa!

After lunch, we went to the Parthenon. They have a wonderful shop
there where you can buy statuettes, t-shirts, mugs and many other
things. Some of the locals thought Flavius and Lucia were tour
guides! Hey, they looked the part!

For those of you who do not know me, I only stand 4'11". When I went
into the main room and saw that statue of the Goddess towering above
me at over 40 feet tall...I was truly in awe. She was magnificent.
The pictures I took can in no way do Her justice. We prayed and took
pictures, then made our way back outside where Flavius was waiting.
He was kind enough to go ahead and do the Kalends ritual for us
while we were inside. Unfortunately I lost my temper at two
Christians who interrupted our offerings outside by praying very
loudly next to us. Normally, I'm not so easy to offend, but this was
very important to me, so I was in no mood for their rudeness.

We next went to the statue of Mars Victor. We got to offer prayers
and incense without interruption there, and my hubby took more
pictures of us. The statue was very well done, and I enjoyed getting
to pray in peace for my hubby's safe return from Kuwait.

After visiting Mars Pater, we went to a small Spring that Flavius
helps look after. It was social time now, and we all chatted and got
to know eachother better.

After the spring, we changed back into our street clothes and went
to dinner at a German restaurant. The food was great, and we got to
listen to an Oompa band. Some of us even got up and joined in this
funny little dance.

Lucia and her hubby were kind enough to put us up for the night. The
next morning we went to a nice mom and pop place for brunch then we
went to a park and fed the fish and ducks before going to see the
Eternal Flame, an independence memorial in the park.

I want to deeply thank the members of my gens for showing up and
joining me. This is a memory I will always treasure, and even though
I'll miss my husband, I know that my gens will be there for me.

It's a good day to be a Roman.

Optima Vale,

Gaia Galeria Aquila











Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44588 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Venationes
SALVETE !

Ludi Apollinares Venationes are arranged to July 9th.
Read the rules :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/venationesrap.htm

Choose an animal or two, and of course tactics, and come to the best
fightings from Circus Maximus.

Send a subscription to : iulius_sabinus@... and don't forget to
add there your nova roman name and to put in the message title :
Venationes.

Novi Romani, with your participation to Ludi you honoured the Gods,
your ancestors and our community.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44589 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Ludi Circenses
SALVETE !

Ludi Circenses are arranged :

July 10th - Quarters.
July 11th - Semifinals.
July 12th - Finals.

Read the rules to the adress :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/circensesrap.htm

Prepare your chariot and your driver ! And of course, choose a
tactic.

Send a subscription to : iulius_sabinus@... and don't forget
to add there your nova roman name and to put in the message title :
Ludi Circenses.

Novi Romani, with your participation to Ludi you honoured the Gods,
your ancestors and our community.

Participate to the Ludi.
We, the Praetors, Curule Aediles, the Praetorian and Aedilician
Cohors are happy to serve.

The official website of Ludi Apollinares is to this adress :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/indexapollo.htm

VALETE.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44590 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
C. Equitius Cato P. Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve Memmius Albucius!

A good question, and one to which Censor Marinus has given a practical
answer. I would only add that the psychological infrastructure of the
United States government was modeled directly from the ancient Romans:
look at the layout and physical plant of the US Senate, for instance,
with the the fasces &c.

The "Founding Fathers" deliberately attempted to model themselves
after the Romans in order to explore the possibilities of applying
those great ideas inspired by the Age of Enlightenment to an actual
living, breathing government...a Great Experiment, which has worked
for 230 years.

Another corollary with the Romans is that in spite of some of the
highest and most powerful offices in the US Government (and, by
extension, the world) having been held by complete idiots - if not
outright criminals - the form and function of those offices continues,
without fear of collapse or anarchy, because the mos maiorum of the
American people, like that of the ancient Romans, simply assumes that
the government will continue to function in the manner in which it
was intended.

Interestingly enough, Apollonius Cordus, Salix Astur and a number of
other citizens and I were discussing this very idea (I believe you
were part of that discussion, Albucius!) over dinner one night in Rome
last summer. We were discussing the usefulness (or lack thereof) of a
rigid lex Constitutiva; the crux being Apollonius' question "What
would happen if the US Constitution disappeared overnight? Would not
everyday American life continue normally while the politicians &c.
figured out what was going to happen?" My immediate response was (as
a good American) shock and horror at the thought of that semi-sacred
document winking out of existence; upon further reflection I realize
that if it happened *now*, the Constitution has become simply so
ingrained in the American psyche that we would probably end up with
something almost exactly like it again.

Vale bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44591 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
A. Apollonius Cn. Lentulo ceterisque sal.

Scripsit C. Galeria:

> It's a good day to be a Roman. <

Respondi:

> Cottidie bonum est Romanus esse. :) <

Respondisti:

> That you wrote, amice amplissime, is rather: "Every day it's good to be a Roman." <


That's what I meant to write, amice! I was not translating C. Galeria's comment but replying with my own sententia. :)


> (Romanum, because "bonum est esse..." needs the accusativus cum infinitivo construction, that's why it is in accusative.) <


Ah, gratias. Hac de re dubitavi.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44592 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: a.d. III Non. Quin.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem III Nonas Quinctilis; haec dies nefastus publicus
est.

"Having accomplished these works deserving of immortality, while he
was holding an assembly of the people for reviewing his army, in the
plain near the Goat's pool, a storm suddenly came on, accompanied by
loud thunder and lightning, and enveloped the king in so dense a mist,
that it entirely hid him from the sight of the assembly. After this
Romulus was never seen again upon earth. The feeling of consternation
having at length calmed down, and the weather having become clear and
fine again after so stormy a day, the Roman youth seeing the royal
seat empty--though they readily believed the words of the fathers who
had stood nearest him, that he had been carried up to heaven by the
storm--yet, struck as it were with the fear of being fatherless, for a
considerable time preserved a sorrowful silence. Then, after a few had
set the example, the whole multitude saluted Romulus as a god, the son
of a god, the king and parent of the Roman city; they implored his
favour with prayers, that with gracious kindness he would always
preserve his offspring. I believe that even then there were some, who
in secret were convinced that the king had been torn in pieces by the
hands of the fathers--for this rumour also spread, but it was very
doubtfully received; admiration for the man, however, and the awe felt
at the moment, gave greater notoriety to the other report. Also by the
clever idea of one individual, additional confirmation is said to have
been attached to the occurrence. For Proculus Julius, while the state
was still troubled at the loss of the king, and incensed against the
senators, a weighty authority, as we are told, in any matter however
important, came forward into the assembly. "Quirites," said he,
"Romulus, the father of this city, suddenly descending from heaven,
appeared to me this day at daybreak. While I stood filled with dread,
and religious awe, beseeching him to allow me to look upon him face to
face, 'Go,' said he, 'tell the Romans, that the gods so will, that my
Rome should become the capital of the world. Therefore let them
cultivate the art of war, and let them know and so hand it down to
posterity, that no human power can withstand the Roman arms.' Having
said this, he vanished up to heaven." It is surprising what credit was
given to that person when he made the announcement, and how much the
regret of the common people and army for the loss of Romulus was
assuaged when the certainty of his immortality was confirmed." Livy,
History of Rome I.15

"Things being in this disorder, one, they say, of the patricians, of
noble family and approved good character, and a faithful and familiar
friend of Romulus himself, having come with him from Alba, Julius
Proculus by name, presented himself in the forum; and taking a most
sacred oath, protested before them all, that, as he was travelling on
the road, he had seen Romulus coming to meet him, looking taller and
comelier than ever, dressed in shining and flaming armor; and he,
being affrighted at the apparition, said, "Why, O king, or for what
purpose, have you abandoned us to unjust and wicked surmises, and the
whole city to bereavement and endless sorrow?" and that he made
answer, "It pleased the gods, O Proculus, that we, who came from them,
should remain so long a time amongst men as we did; and, having built
a city to be the greatest in the world for empire and glory, should
again return to heaven. But farewell; and tell the Romans, that, by
the exercise of temperance and fortitude, they shall attain the height
of human power; we will be to you the propitious god Quirinus." This
seemed credible to the Romans, upon the honesty and oath of the
relator, and laying aside all jealousies and detractions, they prayed
to Quirinus and saluted him as a god." - Plutarch's Lives, "Romulus"

Today is marked as the observance of the Poplifugia. The Poplifugia
is a significant religious festival which honors Iuppiter. It was a
day of feasting and celebration but the rites are not known with
certainty. Poplifugia means "The Flight of The People" and refers to
events that were ancient and obscure even to the Romans, but two
explanations are given by H.H. Scullard: one, "the people fled when
Romulus disappeared from mortal sight during a tempest"; the other,
the flight of the Roman people after the sack of Rome by the Gauls.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Plutarch, Wikipedia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44593 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006, P.Memmius Albucius wrote:

[snippety]

> Splendidus, care Cato.
>
> But what relation with Nova Roma and romanity ? ;-)

The immediately obvious one is that it was the example of the Roman
Republic that had great weight in persuading people that non-Monarchial
government could be an effective system. Numerous examples, from
designating our senior legislative house as "the Senate" (and their
assemblage as a "Congress", come to think of it) to minor things like
Anthony Wayne overcoming the pathological anti-Army feeling by designating
the force he recruited as "the Legion", reinforce this idea.

-- Publius Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44594 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: 4 July AD 1776 and national trumpets
P. Memmius Albucius Triario Catoni Marinoque s.d.


>> contemporary Americans generally perceive the [4th july]
>> holiday as a celebration of the U.S. itself and the political
>>values that motivated the United States Declaration of Independence,
>> including explicit principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of
>> happiness, and implicit ones of democracy, liberty, freedom, and
>> equality under the law.
>> Valete bene - and Happy Fourth of July!

>Splendidus, care Cato.
>But what relation with Nova Roma and romanity ? ;-)

You write, Triarie :"it was the example of the Roman Republic that
had great weight in persuading people that non-Monarchial gvt could
be an effective system."

I am not sure that this weight has been so important. The burden of
the 18th century's tyrannies (colonial, royal ones..) has been more
efficient in this, IMHO. Secondly, we must not forget that the
ancient Athens has first given such an example.

Then you write, Censor : « I'd suggest that it marks the beginning of
the first large-scale attempt at republican government since the end
of the Roman republic in 31 BCE. ».
Clever. I agree, if we put aside the Swiss democracies (not « large-
scale » enough ?), existing from the medieval ages.

"Numerous examples, from designating (..) (snipped by me)", you say,
Triare. Or, as you write, Cato :
"The "Founding Fathers" deliberately attempted to model themselves
after the Romans (...) (snipped by me)"

Naturally, but you may say that about every western modern
democracies, inspired by the whole political philosophy from Hobbes
and Locke to Franklin via the French philosophers.

Rome has been a source of inspiration, sure.
But will we all take our national trumpets and celebrate the 4th,
then the 14th for France, then the 21th July for Belgium and so on,
and then try - afterwards - to underline the so-called relation with
romanity ? And what about every « independance day » of every country
which thus may pretend to have a link with our involvement ?
Let us all let our "national days" aside, out of Nova Roma.
That's why, care Censor, that I will not « share a similar post with
us on the 14th, in commemoration of Bastille Day, to explain the
things that led to that historic day in 1789.», as you fairly suggest
me.
For I do not see that *very direct* relation with our involvement in
NR and romanity. Second, because, if I am to invoke such relations,
we would post tenth messages a day, for our modern western
democracies are full of roman references. Just an example : yesterday
I was meeting the local delegate of the French gvt, called «
préfet ». « Préfet » comes from « praefectus », and so on...

In an artistic and magical movement [ ;-) ], you try, care Cato, to
find an interesting way out for your celebration of 4th July, in
bringing two questions : the stability of a political system - here
today US'one - and the question of the usefulness of a constitution.

Let's get out this way, ok.

On the second point, sorry, but I did not enter *this* (one) dinner
discussion in Rome, though we began it on Dies romanus and the grass
of Villa Pamphilii, under the shadow of an olive tree...

On the matter, the question is interesting but contains some trap :
if the US constitution « disappeared », the circumstances which would
have first driven to such an event would already be, in themselves,
such pretty serious that the collapse of the constitution would be
perceived as rather relative. The modern French example is
interesting : each time France has crossed a crisis (roughly a
revolution), a new constitution has been made. I am not that sure,
thus, that a constitution may « disappear » so easily, as in the
reported case. In the history of states, (new) constitutions are
adopted precisely when the concern political system is seriously
upset.

Valete tres omnisbusque,

P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. Lugd. Galliae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44595 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-05
Subject: Re: Parthenon Trip Notes
P. Memmius Albucius Cordo omnibusque s.d.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, you wrote :

> > Cottidie bonum est Romanus esse. (..)

> > (Romanum, because "bonum est esse..." needs the accusativus cum
infinitivo construction, that's why it is in accusative.) <

> Ah, gratias. Hac de re dubitavi.


Interdum accidit ut erremus. Non alienum est igitur adhiberi doctos. ;-)


Vale,

P. Memmius Albucius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44596 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Opening and Religious Celebrations.
SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

As written in the Official Calendar of the Nova Roman festivals, from
today to July 13th there will be held games and celebrations.

Today is the first day of Ludi Apollinares :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july6.htm

Visit our site :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/indexapollo.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44597 From: FAC Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: 4 July AD 1776 and thw FIFA World Cup Germany 2006
Salvete Omnes,
if the american celebrations of the Juliet 4th have relation with Nova
Roma and romanity, please permit me to talk the next final match of
the FIFA World Cup Germany 2006. Again after 6 years (Euro 2000) the
soccer teams Italy and France will fight to be World Champion. The
first match in 2000 France won against Italy 2-1 with a goal by
Wiltord at 89' and a golden goal by Henry in the first supllementary
period.
But, with all my respect and friendship for the french nova romans :-
D, as Italian I hope my team would win revenging the first lost match.

What is the relation with romanity and Nova Roma? It's easy: the
soccer (the real name is "football"!) is the modern Ludi, a big arena
where 22 players fight like gladiators in a technical and physical
sport. Many italian players are consideed here our "gladiators" and
one of our best player, the playmaker Francesco Totti, have several
tatoos about Colosseum, the Lupa and Twins, a gladiator.
About this match the Italics Cannavaro, Gattuso, Zambrotta, Totti,
Buffon and Toni will fight against the strong Gallics Zidane, Henry,
Ribery, Thuram, Vieira...
It would be like a great roman Ludi!!!

:-D

Valete
FAC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44598 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: prid. Non. Quin.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est pridie Nonas Quinctilis; haec dies nefastus est.

"Fertur autem in carminibus Marcii vatis, cuius duo volumina inlata
sunt in senatum, inventum esse ita scriptum: Hostem, Romani, si ex
agro expellere vultis, vomicam quae gentium venit longe, Apollini
censeo vovendos ludos qui quotannis comiter Apollini fiant. His ludis
faciendis praesit is praetor qui ius populo plebique dabit summum:
decemviri Graeco ritu hostiis sacra faciant. Hoc si recte facietis,
gaudebitis semper fietque res publica melior: nam is divus extinguet
perduelles vestros qui vestros campos pascunt placide. Ex hoc carmine
cum procurandi gratia dies unus rebus divinis impensus esset, postea
senatus consultum factum: uti decemviri, quo magis instruerentur de
ludis Apollini agundis reque divina recte facienda, libros Sibyllinos
adirent. In quibus cum eadem reperta nuntiatum esset, censuerunt
Patres: Apollini ludos vovendos faciendosque, inque eam rem duodecim
milia aeris praetori et duas hostias maiores dari, decemvirisque
praeceptum: ut Graeco ritu hisce hostiis sacrum facerent, Apollini
bove aurato et capris duabus albis auratis, Latonae bove femina
aurata. Ludos in circo populus coronatus spectare iussus. Haec
praecipue traditur origo ludorum Apollinarium." - Macrobius,
Saturnalia XVII.28-30

During a rather bad year (212 BC) in the Second Punic War (though they
did have a good win at Syracuse) and several years after their
crushing defeat by the Carthaginian Hannibal at the Battle of Cannae,
the Romans consulted the ancient seer Marcius for his reading from the
sacred texts, the Sibylline Oracles. Marcius advised them to hold
games in honour of the Greek sun god, Apollon, in order to obtain his
aid. Four years later when a plague broke out, the senators of Rome
decided to make the Ludi Apollinares permanent and over the course of
the next two centuries the games came to be a festival lasting eight
days, the principal sacrifice being made on July 13.

It was stated by some of the ancient annalists that these ludi were
instituted for the purpose of obtaining from Apollo the protection of
human life during the hottest season of summer; but Livy and Macrobius
adopt the account founded upon the most authentic document, the
carmina Marciana themselves, that the Apollinarian games were
instituted partly to obtain the aid of Apollo in expelling the
Carthaginians from Italy, and partly to preserve, through the favour
of the god, the republic from all dangers. The oracle suggested that
the games should be held every year under the superintendence of the
praetor urbanus, and that ten men should perform the sacrifices
according to Greek rites. The senate complying with the advice of the
oracle made two senatusconsulta; one that, at the end of the games,
the praetor should receive 12,000 asses to be expended on the
solemnities and sacrifices, and another that the ten men should
sacrifice to Apollo, according to Greek rites, a bull with gilt horns
and two white goats also with gilt horns, and to Latona a heifer with
gilt horns. The games themselves were held in the Circus Maximus, the
spectators were adorned with chaplets, and each citizen gave a
contribution towards defraying the expenses. The Roman matrons
performed supplications, the people took their meals in the propatulum
with open doors, and the whole day — for the festival lasted only one
day — was filled up with ceremonies and various other rites. At this
first celebration of the ludi Apollinares no decree was made
respecting the annual repetition suggested by the oracle, so that in
the first year they were simply ludi votivi or indictivi. The year
after (211 BC) the senate, on the proposal of the praetor Calpurnius,
decreed that they should be repeated, and that in future they should
be vowed afresh every year. The day on which they were held varied
every year according to circumstances. A few years later, however (208
BC), when Rome and its vicinity were visited by a plague, the praetor
urbanus, P. Licinius Varus, brought a bill before the people to ordain
that the Apollinarian games should in future always be vowed and held
on a certain day (dies status), on the 6th of July, which day
henceforward remained a dies sollemnis. The games thus became votivi
et stativi, and continued to be conducted by the praetor urbanus.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Macrobius, Smith's Dictionary, Wikipedia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44599 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - call for Venationes
SALVETE !

Ludi Apollinares Venationes are arranged at July 9th.
The rules are at that adress :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/venationesrap.htm

Subscriptions are accepted until July 7th 24.00 Roman time. The
competitors who wishes to participate in the Venationes must send a
subscription to me, at iulius_sabinus@...

Enjoy ! And don't forget to visit the Ludi website :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/indexapollo.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44600 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-07
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - History
SALVETE !

From Hon. Praetor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, in the second day of
Ludi Apollinares, a history of that Ludi :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july7.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44601 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-07
Subject: Non. Quin.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Nonis Quinctiliis; haec dies nefastus est.

Today is the observance of the Nonae Caprotina - a special feast
celebrated in honor of Iuno Caprotina. Caprotina is an epithet of Juno
in Her aspect as a fertility Goddess. As Juno Caprotina She is
associated with goats (Latin capra, "she-goat", caper, "he-goat") and
with figs ("caprificus"), both of which are symbolic of fertility: the
fig fruit bears many seeds, and goats are well-known for their
randiness. Her festival was called the Nonae Caprotina, or the "Nones
of Caprotina", held on the nones or 7th day of July, and it was
exclusively celebrated by women, especially slave-women.

The Roman explanation of the Nonae Caprotina is thus: after Rome had
survived a siege by the Gauls, some of the less-friendly neighboring
Latin tribes decided to take advantage of Rome's weakened position and
demanded Roman women in marriage, under the threat of destroying the
city. While the Senate debated what to do, a slave-woman named Tutela
took the matter into her own hands: with a group of other slave-women
dressed as free women, she went to the amassed enemy army, and under
the guise of celebrating a wedding feast, got the Latins quite drunk.
After they had fallen asleep the slave-girls took their weapons, and
Tutela climbed a nearby wild fig tree (caproficus in the Latin) and
waved a torch as signal for the Romans to attack. This they did, and
as a reward for the resulting victory, the Senate gave each
slave-woman who participated her freedom, as well as a generous dowry.
After that, in remembrance of the victory, the Nonae Caprotina were
celebrated. Fig-branches and the milky sap of the fig-tree were
offered to Juno, and festivities, feasts and rites were held in the
fig-grove of the Campus Martius (the Plain of Mars).

Another explanation for this festival was that it commemorated the day
that Romulus, the legendary founder of Rome, mysteriously vanished
during a thunderstorm, after which He was believed to have been taken
by the Gods and made immortal. The site of His disappearance was the
Palus Caprae (or "Goat's Marsh") in the Campus Martius, a swampy basin
not far from the spot where the Pantheon is nowadays. The Nonae
Caprotinae were also connected with the Poplifugia of the 5th of July,
traditionally said to commemorate the people's panicky flight when
faced with either a) the enemy army come to seize the women, or b) the
occasion of Romulus's disappearence into thin air. The actual,
original meaning of the Poplifugia had been long forgotten, though it
may have referred to the ritual defeat or chasing away of the
neighboring Latin armies. Another connection between the Nonae
Caprotinae and the Poplifugia is that is was traditional on the Nonae
Caprotinae for the women to run or be chased from the Temple of Iuno
to the fig-grove where a feast was held.

Goats, figs, and a fleeing populace are the common threads in these
traditions; also located near the Palus Caprae (which is the name
given to that area only in the legend of Romulus' disappearance) were
the Aedicula Capraria, the Shrine of the Goat, and the Vicus
Caprarius, a road literally named "Goat Street", which was probably
named so because it led to the Aedicula Capraria. It is not known if
the Aedicula Capraria was used in the festivities of the Nonae
Caprotina, though that would seem likely. And yet another tradition
names the invading army that frightened the populace so as being from
Ficulea or Ficulnea, an ancient Sabine town whose name means "Of the
Fig-Tree".

The various and confused explanations given for the two related
festivals point to both their importance and their ancient origins.
Probably they are both linked to the fig-harvest, which takes place in
Italy in June and July, and to Juno as a Goddess of the fig tree who
ensured a bountiful crop. The milk-like sap of the fig tree connects
it with fertility, both of Iuno as the Mother Goddess — who was after
all equated with the Greek Hera, whose spilled breast milk was said to
have formed the Milky Way — and of goats themselves, who were often
kept for milk (even now a bowl of goat's milk is a part of the
traditional breakfast offered in Rome). The fertility of the figs and
goats brought by Iuno Caprotina was probably seen as encouraging the
fertility of the women, as certain of the rites of the Nonae
Caprotinae compare with the Lupercalia, a festival also dedicated to
fertility. The other major theme of the Poplifugia and the Nonae
Caprotina (as well as the Lupercalia) was the ritual spiritual
cleansing of the city: the fig was known in ancient times as a
purgative, and thus associated with the driving out of evil (as both
figs and fig-branches were used in the Greek rite of the Thargelia,
when Athens was symbolically cleansed), so that the people and the
crops might prosper. The Flight of the People (enemy army or panicky
populace) may also connect to a symbolic driving out of enemies or bad
spirits.

Iuno Caprotina was usually depicted with goats, naturally enough: on
one coin She rides a biga, a two "horse" chariot in this case drawn by
a pair of goats; Her dress flows in the wind of Her speed and She
holds what looks like a riding crop. On another coin, on which Her
portrait is stamped, She wears a head-dress made of goat-hide, with
the goat's head over Her own so that the horns are preserved in the
back, and the lower jawline of the goat runs along Her own.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Obscure Goddess Directory (http://www.thaliatook.com/caprotina.html)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44602 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - ludi scaenici.
SALVETE !

Today is the third day of Ludi Apollinares. This day is dedicated to
Ludi Scaenici.
Praetors, Curule Aediles, their Cohors have the honour to invite you
all in amphitheatre. There,our best actors will act a beautiful play :
" Menaechmi ", or The Twin Brothers by Plautus.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july8.htm

SALVETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44603 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Latin Lives!
Salve

FYI

Hats off to the Finns!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

*******************************************************************

Finns turn jargon of Unio Europaea into poetry with weekly news bulletin - in Latin

Nicholas Watt in Helsinki
Tuesday July 4, 2006
The Guardian<http://www.guardian.co.uk/>


Sniffy classicists, who have always looked down at the European Union as a pale imitation of their beloved Roman Empire, will be delighted. Having pinched the Romans' idea of a single currency, the EU has now decided to embrace Latin.
Finland, which is running the EU for the next six months, is to publish weekly news bulletins in Latin on its special EU presidency website.

Leaders of the Unio Europaea, who have had a wretched year grappling with the Constitutio Europaea, will be reaching for their dictionaries at their next shindig in Bruxellae


The EU's notorious jargon, which baffles all but the saddest Brussels anoraks, turns into poetry when translated into Latin. The miserable Common Agricultural Policy becomes the majestic ratio communis agros colendi, which literally means "common scheme for cultivating the fields".
Classicists can catch up with the news in Latin every Wednesday thanks to two energetic Finnish Latin scholars. Tuomo Pekkanen and Reijo Pitkaranta already have a cult following among Finnish classicists who tune in every Sunday night to Nuntii Latini, a five-minute Latin news bulletin broadcast on YLE, Finland's BBC equivalent.

Dr Pitkaranta said: "Latin is not dead - it is still very much in use in different forms across the world today. Italians, French and Spaniards all speak a new form of Latin. I hope that EU documents are soon translated into Latin which is such a clear language."

Mia Lahti, the editor of the Finnish presidency's website, said: "Using Latin is a way of paying tribute to European civilisation and it serves to remind people of European society's roots, stretching back to ancient times."

Classicists hailed the initiative by Finland which is the only country, along with the Vatican, to broadcast news in Latin even though the Roman empire never reached Scandinavia.

Dr Bruce Gibson, a classics scholar at Liverpool University, said: "Finland has a distinguished tradition of classical scholarship and respect for the classics. The Finns are experts in languages: many Finns are fluent in Swedish and English as a matter of routine.

"Though their own language is not a descendant of Latin, perhaps the Finns realize that Latin still provides a common linguistic and cultural heritage to Europe, and therefore are doing everything to promote it during their presidency. Other European nations closer to home might want to take note."

Boris Johnson, the Conservative MP who recently wrote a book comparing the EU unfavorably with the Roman Empire, was impressed. The author of The Dream of Rome said: "I think this is wonderful, I hope everybody reads it. The best and most significant step for European integration would be to oblige every child in Europe from the age of 14 to read Book Four of [Virgil's] The Aeneid.

"It is the best book of the best poem by the greatest poet. That would do far more than anything else to build up a common European culture. That is what is missing now: an awareness of our European civilization and common roots."

Word play

Acquis Communautaire (jargon for entire body of EU law) or corpus legum institutorumque iuris Europaei

Subsidiarity (jargon for the principle that as much EU work as possible should be done at national and local levels, not Brussels) - consilium ut gentes et nationes, non potentes Bruxellenses, rectores Europae sint

Absorption capacity (the informal EU test of a new member state's suitability) or quaestio de aliis civitatibus in Unionem accipiendis (the inquiry concerning other states being accepted into the union)

· Random EU jargon, as translated by Dr Bruce Gibson, Liverpool University




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44604 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
SALVETE !

In the fourth day of Ludi Apollinares, Venationes are organized. Sure
a lot of our citizens are at Baiae and maybe it was better to organize
the Ludi there. But all was compensated with a good historical article
presented by Praetor Galerius Paulinus.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july9.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44605 From: Michael Lejeune Date: 2006-07-09
Subject: Re: Latin Lives!
Salve,
Sum Titus Catulus ex Iulii, et etiam sum laetus audire vox latina
adhuc animatum magna orbis terra est. :-)

Valete atque habitate in fortunam buonam!
T.CATVLVS EX IVL.



Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salve

FYI

Hats off to the Finns!!

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

*******************************************************************

Finns turn jargon of Unio Europaea into poetry with weekly news bulletin - in Latin

Nicholas Watt in Helsinki
Tuesday July 4, 2006
The Guardian<http://www.guardian.co.uk/>

Sniffy classicists, who have always looked down at the European Union as a pale imitation of their beloved Roman Empire, will be delighted. Having pinched the Romans' idea of a single currency, the EU has now decided to embrace Latin.
Finland, which is running the EU for the next six months, is to publish weekly news bulletins in Latin on its special EU presidency website.

Leaders of the Unio Europaea, who have had a wretched year grappling with the Constitutio Europaea, will be reaching for their dictionaries at their next shindig in Bruxellae

The EU's notorious jargon, which baffles all but the saddest Brussels anoraks, turns into poetry when translated into Latin. The miserable Common Agricultural Policy becomes the majestic ratio communis agros colendi, which literally means "common scheme for cultivating the fields".
Classicists can catch up with the news in Latin every Wednesday thanks to two energetic Finnish Latin scholars. Tuomo Pekkanen and Reijo Pitkaranta already have a cult following among Finnish classicists who tune in every Sunday night to Nuntii Latini, a five-minute Latin news bulletin broadcast on YLE, Finland's BBC equivalent.

Dr Pitkaranta said: "Latin is not dead - it is still very much in use in different forms across the world today. Italians, French and Spaniards all speak a new form of Latin. I hope that EU documents are soon translated into Latin which is such a clear language."

Mia Lahti, the editor of the Finnish presidency's website, said: "Using Latin is a way of paying tribute to European civilisation and it serves to remind people of European society's roots, stretching back to ancient times."

Classicists hailed the initiative by Finland which is the only country, along with the Vatican, to broadcast news in Latin even though the Roman empire never reached Scandinavia.

Dr Bruce Gibson, a classics scholar at Liverpool University, said: "Finland has a distinguished tradition of classical scholarship and respect for the classics. The Finns are experts in languages: many Finns are fluent in Swedish and English as a matter of routine.

"Though their own language is not a descendant of Latin, perhaps the Finns realize that Latin still provides a common linguistic and cultural heritage to Europe, and therefore are doing everything to promote it during their presidency. Other European nations closer to home might want to take note."

Boris Johnson, the Conservative MP who recently wrote a book comparing the EU unfavorably with the Roman Empire, was impressed. The author of The Dream of Rome said: "I think this is wonderful, I hope everybody reads it. The best and most significant step for European integration would be to oblige every child in Europe from the age of 14 to read Book Four of [Virgil's] The Aeneid.

"It is the best book of the best poem by the greatest poet. That would do far more than anything else to build up a common European culture. That is what is missing now: an awareness of our European civilization and common roots."

Word play

Acquis Communautaire (jargon for entire body of EU law) or corpus legum institutorumque iuris Europaei

Subsidiarity (jargon for the principle that as much EU work as possible should be done at national and local levels, not Brussels) - consilium ut gentes et nationes, non potentes Bruxellenses, rectores Europae sint

Absorption capacity (the informal EU test of a new member state's suitability) or quaestio de aliis civitatibus in Unionem accipiendis (the inquiry concerning other states being accepted into the union)

· Random EU jargon, as translated by Dr Bruce Gibson, Liverpool University

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! MessengerÂ’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44606 From: C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
Great!!!!

My lion, Liokos, is a champion again!!!!!

Congratulations, my little lion, and this night, as a gift, I'll give
you some christians to eat!!!!

;)

Vale et valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44607 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Quin.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VII Idus Quinctilis; haec dies nefastus est.

"Idem poeta tam scientia profundus quam amoenus ingenio nonnulla de
veteribus verbis quae ad proprietatem sacrorum noverat pertinere ita
interpretatus est ut mutato verbi sono integer tellectus maneret. Nam
primo pontificii iuris libro apud Pictorem verbum hoc positum est,
vitulari, de cuius verbi significatu Titius ita retulit: Vitulari est
voce laetari. Varro etiam in libro quinto decimo Rerum divinarum ita
refert, quod pontifex in sacris quibusdam vitulari soleat, quod Graeci
"paiazein" vocant. Has tot interpretationes ambages quam paucis verbis
docta elegantia Maronis expressit:

— Laetumque choro paeana canentes!

Nam si vitulari est voce laetari, quod est "paiazein", nonne in cantu
laeti "paianos" enarratio verbi perfecta servata est? Et, ut huic
vocabulo diutius immoremur, Hyllus libro quem de dis conposuit ait
Vitulam vocari deam quae laetitiae praeest. Piso ait vitulam victoriam
nominari. Cuius rei hoc argumentum profert, quod postridie Nonas
Iulias re bene gesta, cum pridie populus a Tuscis in fugam versus sit
(unde Populifugia vocantur) post victoriam certis sacrificiis fiat
vitulatio. Quidam nomen eius animadversum putant, quod potens sit
vitae tolerandae: ideo huic deae pro frugibus fieri sacra dicuntur,
quia frugibus vita humana toleratur. Unde hoc esse animadvertimus?
quod ait Virgilius:

'Cum faciam vitulam pro frugibus, ipse venito'

ut vitulam dixerit pro vitulatione, quod nomen esse sacrificii ob
laetitiam facti superius expressimus? Meminerimus tamen sic legendum
per ablativum:

'Cum faciam vitula pro frugibus'

id est: cum faciam rem divinam non ove, non capra, sed vitula, tamquam
dicat: cum vitulam pro frugibus sacrificavero, quod est: cum vitula
rem divinam fecero. Pontificem Aeneam vel ex nomine referendorum
laborum eius ostendit. Pontificibus enim permissa est potestas
memoriam rerum gestarum in tabulas conferendi, et hos annales
appellant equidem maximos, quasi a pontificibus maximis factos. Unde
ex persona Aeneae ait:

'Et vacet annales tantorum audire laborum.' " - Macrobius, Saturnalia
II.10-17

This day and the previous, are called the Vitulatio, or Days of Joy,
and is a day of celebration honoring Vitula, the personified goddess
of joy and victory. No doubt this day commemorates the almost
miraculous survival of the people through the preceeding series of
calamities, the Gallic invasion, the destruction of the city, and the
oppurtunistic attack by their neighbors. Chanting and singing for joy
were the theme of the day. Sacrifices were offered to Iuppiter and
games were held.

"After Hadrian's death there was erected to him a huge equestrian
statue representing him with a four-horse chariot. It was so large
that the bulkiest man could walk through the eye of each horse, yet
because of the extreme height of the foundation persons passing along
on the ground below believe that the horses themselves as well as
Hadrian are very small." - Dio Cassius, "Hadrian"

On this day in AD 138, the emperor Hadrian died.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Macrobius, Dio Cassius, Wikipedia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44608 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
SALVE !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS
<c.arminius.reccanellus@...> wrote:

> Great!!!!
> My lion, Liokos, is a champion again!!!!!
> Congratulations, my little lion, and this night, as a gift, I'll
give you some christians to eat!!!!

Is better to start with the Brasil football (soccer) team.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44609 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses quarters.
SALVETE !

Today we present you Ludi Circenses.
As usual Praetor Galerius Paulinus start the Ludi with an interesting
article about the history of the chariots racing.
Then the quarters. From four participants only three are qualified for
semifinals. They are :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/julycircenses.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44610 From: C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS Date: 2006-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
> "Titus Iulius Sabinus" wrote:

>>> C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS wrote:
>>>
>>> Great!!!!
>>> Congratulations, my little lion, and this night, as a gift, I'll
>>> give you some christians to eat!!!!

> Is better to start with the Brasil football (soccer) team.

Perfect, Sabinus!!!!!

The brazilian soccer (football) team is more apropriate for the
ocasion.

But I have to take care about Roberto Carlos and Cafu, because their
too old flesh could brake some teeth of my little lion!!!

Vale
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44611 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Diocletian and aftermath
Salvete omnes,

I have been interested for some times in the so-called decline and
fall of the Roman Empire. Most historians would agree to set the
beginning of the Low Empire at the ascension of Diocletian in the
late 3rd century, and even after the death of Marcus Aurelius a
century earlier. Some talk about decline because Diocletian instored
what has been refered to as the Dominate (the Emperor as Dominus),
instead of the princeps (the Imperator as citizen and magistrate,
first among equals).
However, a number of historians, according to what I know, also
agree that Diocletian and his successor Constantine left the Empire
as strong as it ever was in the past.

This led me to a number of questions. Is the Dominate a usually
agreed-upon term to refer to this era of Roman history? Also, given
the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is the
fall of the western half (which was never official, and which went
largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than
a "tragedy?"

I hope that some of you could help me on these issues...

Valete bene,

T.Africanus Secundus Flamininus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44612 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: incense
hey!

i'm still searching about informations about ancient roman incense.

i found a incense recipe, which belongs to plinius: verbena,
junipierus, bay, sage and thymus.

does anybody know this text passage from plinius? what was this
incense used for? is this an offering for the gods too?

i like this combination of herbs, i'll try them today. for me it
sounds like a very ancient recipe, because of the used herbs. every
herb grows here in europe. maybe later the usage of resins like
olibanum an mhyrr came to the romans....


thanks for help
Kriss!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44613 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Salve Flamini,

T.Africanus Secundus Flamininus wrote:

> Is the Dominate a usually
> agreed-upon term to refer to this era of Roman history?

Yes, it is. See, for example, this Britannica Online article:

The Later Roman Empire > The recovery of the empire and the
establishment of the dominate (270–337)

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-26696

> Also, given
> the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is the
> fall of the western half (which was never official, and which went
> largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than
> a "tragedy?"

That depends very much on who you ask. It was certainly a tragedy for
western Europe, since it marked the beginning of the time generally
known as the Dark Ages.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44614 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
A. Apollonius T. Africano sal.

> This led me to a number of questions. Is the Dominate a usually
agreed-upon term to refer to this era of Roman history? Also, given
the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is the
fall of the western half (which was never official, and which went
largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than
a "tragedy?" <

It's been a while since I studied this period of Roman history, so I won't try to answer your second question, but I can answer the first. "Dominate" is not universally used, but it is used quite widely and it would be understood by most academics. It's often used to contrast with the "principate", which indicates the period from Augustus to Diocletian. But sometimes the term "principate" is used in a different sense, to cover only the period from Augustus to Nerva or Trajan.

There are a lot of different ways to divide history into periods - sometimes it's safer just to use dates! :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44615 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
A. Apollonius Cn. Equitio sal.

>> Also, given the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is the fall of the western half (which was never official, and which went largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than a "tragedy?" <<

> That depends very much on who you ask. It was certainly a tragedy for
western Europe, since it marked the beginning of the time generally
known as the Dark Ages. <

I suspect "tragedy" is being used here in its literary sense: a downfall caused by a fatal flaw in the hero himself. Thus the question means "was the fall of the western empire an avoidable chance event (an accident) or the result of a sequence of events driven inexorably by a flaw in the empire itself (a tragedy)?" But I may be wrong.

If "tragedy" is used to mean "something bad", then in my view the tragedy had already happened five hundred years before the fall of the western empire.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44616 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses semifinals
SALVETE !

Today in Circus Maximus were interesting chariots racing between our
factions : Albata, Veneta and Russata. Unfortunately the Greens didn't
have a representative at that Ludi.
The results are to that adress :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/julycircenses.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44617 From: cant97@hughes.net Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: incense
I use a wide variety of incenses, but frankincense is my general use
incense.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of kriss112233
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:56 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] incense


hey!

i'm still searching about informations about ancient roman incense.

i found a incense recipe, which belongs to plinius: verbena,
junipierus, bay, sage and thymus.

does anybody know this text passage from plinius? what was this
incense used for? is this an offering for the gods too?

i like this combination of herbs, i'll try them today. for me it
sounds like a very ancient recipe, because of the used herbs. every
herb grows here in europe. maybe later the usage of resins like
olibanum an mhyrr came to the romans....

thanks for help
Kriss!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44618 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
Gratias tibi ago Marine.


>
> > Also, given
> > the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is
the
> > fall of the western half (which was never official, and which
went
> > largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than
> > a "tragedy?"
>
> That depends very much on who you ask. It was certainly a tragedy
for
> western Europe, since it marked the beginning of the time generally
> known as the Dark Ages.
>

It seems, still according to what I read, that the Classical age
of Rome ended in fact with Justianian's reconquest of Italy in 553.
After the deposition of Romulus Augustulus, Alaric and his sucessor
Theodoric seemed to have had a great deal of respect for Roman
monuments and institutions. The Senate survived the Fall of the
Emperor and even organized games and races, and the Senators were in
apparent good terms with the eastern court, which resulted in good
relations between the two Cities.
After the Byzantin reconquest, however, the Senate was disbanded
and much of what was left of Rome's former glory was abandonned, and
Italy was ripe for Lombard conquest.

Who knows what would have happened had the Goths continued ruling
over Rome and Italy?? Perhaps history would have been a little
different...

Vale bene,

T. Africanus Secundus Flamininus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44619 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Venationes
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS wrote:

> Great!!!!
>
> My lion, Liokos, is a champion again!!!!!
>
> Congratulations, my little lion, and this night, as a gift, I'll give
> you some christians to eat!!!!

Humans aren't healthy to eat. Definite possibility that they carry
trichinosis.

-- P. Livius Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44620 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
In a message dated 7/11/2006 12:06:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
franceuropa@... writes:

This led me to a number of questions. Is the Dominate a usually
agreed-upon term to refer to this era of Roman history? Also, given
the Byzantin Empire, which outlived the west a thousand years, is the
fall of the western half (which was never official, and which went
largely unnoticed at the time) more of an "accident" than
a "tragedy?"





The Dominate was an attempt to keep the Empire from tearing itself apart.
It stopped the slide for a bit, but only a bit.

If you want to get into a lively debate with Roman scholars, talk about the
dates, and reasons the west fall. You will get many answers. Still for me
it was the demise of the Principate/Senate connection in ruling Rome. By the
time Severus finds the Severan dynasty, the Empire starts its way to its
demise.

1. Septimius Serverus strengthens the army, at the cost of ignoring other
pressing problems. However this is not for self defense, but to maintain his
power. For the first time, Rome has no champion to overthrow this said state
of affairs. By attacking Parthia and slowing wearing it down during the
dynasty, Serverus opened the vacum that Sassanid Persia would expand into,
finally overthrowing the Arscid dyansty, and becomes Rome's implacible enemy until
they in turn are overthrown by the Muslims. Not only did these wars sap
the empire of veteran soldiers, but introduced a plague that killed thousands
more forcing the recruitment of barbarians to maintain the army size..

2. His son Bassinaus (Caracalla) upon assuming the purple, had his co-consul
brother killed, then with soldiers accompanying him to the Senate house
forced the Senate to declare his brother a public enemy of Rome. If we can
believe Aelius this was the first time Roman soldiers entered the Senate House.
Bassinaus makes it perfectly clear, that he will run Rome with no Senatoral
interference.
In 212 he issues the Constitutio Antoniniana that turns the whole empire
into a commonwealth, communis patria, removing Italia's unique civil exemption
and making all subjects of the Empire Roman citizens. Even though this is
hailed as making the Empire
more democratic it does nothing of the kind. Bessinaus does it to raise
money for his wars, since all citizens are subject to pay all the taxes,
including those of manumission, and death. In one stroke of the pen he eliminates
reasons to join the Auxilia, and Italian presence in the new Army is greatly
over shadowed. It is no longer a Roman army, but a commonwealth one. Army
discipline sinks.

After he is killed, and the usual civil war is fought, Varius (Elagabalus)
took over, at age 14.
While he dallied in sexual amusements (The Syrian Sun God Elagabalus is
erotic god) two Syrian women, his aunt and his mother run the Empire into ruin.
During this time, Varius desecrates the Vestal order, dissolves the Senate
since they are too old, and establishes his god as the Imperial one. The
Senate has him and his mother killed.

3. Thus Serveus Alexander his cousin becomes Imperator. He too is
controlled by his aunt,
and sets out like his namesake to expand the Empire. His victories are
actually bribes to keep Rome's enemies at bay, while reunifies the Danube region.
However, he does reform the Senate through it is a partisan one, and
finishes several road building projects started by the great Trajanus. Yet he
makes a major blunder by bribing the Alamanni, rather then breaking them up, and
cutting the pay to his army. They responded by killing him, his mother and
then marching on the summer palace and killing his aunt.

4. At this point the famous "Barracks period" of the empire begins, and Rome
looks inward for the next 40 years, during which that time the empire has
organized armed enemies both in the west and the East. A situation which would
not bode well for the Empire in the coming century.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44621 From: FAC Date: 2006-07-11
Subject: Italy won in the modern arena
Salvete Omnes,
as you have seen the italian national football team is Champion of
the World. Italy won the FIFA World Cup Germany 2006 in a hard final
against les Blues of France.
At the return in Italy the team celebrated the great victory wuth a
triumphal parade in Via dei Fori Imperiali arriving at Circus
Maximus in front of more than 2 millions of funny people singing the
national hymn. They appared in the roman circus as modern gladiators
and many people racalled the invasion of Gallia and Germania by the
Romans ;-D
In any way our highest respect to the France's team for an
incredible championship and an hard final match.

If you would see the great celebrations look at:
http://multimedia.repubblica.it/home/331397
http://www.corriere.it/gallery/Extra/2006/germania06/vuoto.shtml?
germania06/germania06/31&1

Valete
FAC
...proud to be italian! ;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44622 From: Tim Guerinot Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Introduction plus nice stuff
Hi Everyone:

I'm new to the site and thought I'd drop a quick hello. I've included
a few questions etc.

What type of rations would roman soldiers carry? Was there a
difference in rations as far as republic and empire.

In addition I thought I'd include some nice research I've found as far
as costuming and art as a whole. I found a nice website:

www.periodportraits.com

They seem to have later period stuff featured but the site expresses an
interest in all periods.

Look forward to many discussions.

Thanks,
Tim
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44623 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Diocletian and aftermath
In a message dated 7/11/2006 12:02:43 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
franceuropa@... writes:

Who knows what would have happened had the Goths continued ruling
over Rome and Italy?? Perhaps history would have been a little
different...






Which was the premise of le Sprague de Camp's "Least Darkness Falls"

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44624 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: [SCI FI Wire] Rome Lives In Romanitas
Salvete,

I know this book was talked about on this list about a year ago, but I
just found this news article on SCI FI Wire, which seemed worth mentioning.

Has anyone read the book? Is it any good?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rome Lives In Romanitas

SF author Sophia McDougall, whose novel Romanitas -
http://www.romanitas.com/ - was just nominated for a Sidewise Award for
alternate history, told SCI FI Wire that the novel is set in the present
day in a version of the world where the Roman Empire never fell. "Over
the centuries it's spread to include much of Africa, Asia and North and
South America," McDougall said in an interview. "It begins with a state
funeral of a glamorous imperial couple being televised across the world
and a teenage slave girl trying to rescue her brother from death on a
mechanized metal crucifix on the banks of the Thames."

McDougall fell in love with Rome when she went to the city with her
school at age 17, she said. "I studied Latin at school," she said. "And
yet, for all that, I don't really know where the idea [for the novel]
came from. I hadn't looked at any ancient history for years; I wasn't a
classicist. I knew I wanted to write a novel eventually, but I was 23. I
didn't expect it to happen for a while. [But] suddenly it was like an
announcement in my head: 'A trilogy of novels about a modern Roman
Empire. Main characters: a brother and sister who are slaves, and, ...
oh, yes, a young boy who's a possible heir to the throne.'"

Part of the appeal of writing in alternate settings is the idea of the
fragility of history, McDougall said. "That quite small decisions or
incidents could—must—change the whole course of the future, and that
such things must be happening all the time, and yet cannot always be
recognizable. It's quite frightening in a rather exciting way: so much
possibility. But as I've been writing Romanitas, I've found myself
thinking that part of the pleasure of alternate history is the exact
opposite: the discovery things can't come out as different as all that.
Names and the order of events can change, but if the resources are the
same, conflicts will arise over them. Those conflicts will drive forward
technology and lead to these kinds of internal questions. That kind of
thing. ... But I didn't set out to write an alternate history and look
for ideas. It was just what came. And it wasn't only the premise. Most
of the characters and plot came at the same moment, which is why I don't
intend to write any more stories set in the same world once the trilogy
is finished."

The second volume of the trilogy, Rome Burning, is nearly completed,
McDougall said. "It's set three years after Romanitas," she said.
"Romanitas gives a mostly bottom-up view of this alternative world.
There's going to be more of a top-down perspective in [Rome Burning],
more of the grandeur of the Empire. There's a scene near the beginning
set in Delphi—which I've turned into a kind of cross between Las Vegas
and Lourdes—which I'm quite proud of. And it has a more global scope, I
think. Romanitas is mostly set in Rome, London and France/Gaul. The
second book hinges around a stewing conflict between the Roman Empire
and its Nionian (Japanese) rival over North America, and much of it is
set in the East." —John Joseph Adams

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=37003&type=0
------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
Valete,
T. Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44625 From: albmd323232 Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Roman Market Days
Salvete,

does anyone have any specific info about the Roman Market Days in
Wells, Maine this weekend. Ive got quite a long drive from Belfast and
I was wondering if the events will be the same both days, or would it
be worth it to try and find some accomodation for the evening?

Valete
Decimus Claudius Aquilius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44626 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
SALVETE !

Today it was the last day of Ludi Circenses : The final. Sure it was a
winner. But I want to point out that the winners are all participants,
because they...participate.
They honoured our ancient roman tradition. For that I want to thank
them.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/julycircenses.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44627 From: rocknrockabilly Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Latin question
salvete omnes,

I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
words "Christvs Pantocrativs." I have looked in the dictionary, but I
cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
out?

Gratias bene,

T. Africanus Secundus Flamininus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44628 From: royalphillie Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Newbie
Greetings all,
I just recently applied for citizenship. I'm pretty excited about
this. My name is Justin (Spurius Acilius) and I've been looking for
religions of the pre-Christian era. I'm glad I found Religio Romana. I
don't know what else to put, thanks for reading this.

Justin
(Sp. Acilius)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44629 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Latin question
Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus T. Africano Secundo Flaminino salutem dicit

I would check out the following listing on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Christ_Pantocrator

Christvs Pantocrativs is probably: Christ Pantocrator or "Christ Ruler of
All."

Vale:

Modianus

On 7/12/06, rocknrockabilly <franceuropa@...> wrote:
>
> salvete omnes,
>
> I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
> Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
> words "Christvs Pantocrativs." I have looked in the dictionary, but I
> cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
> out?
>
> Gratias bene,
>
> T. Africanus Secundus Flamininus.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44630 From: Lucius Caecilius Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Latin question
It has to mean something like "Ruler Over All" a Greekism or something.

Lucius

rocknrockabilly <franceuropa@...> wrote:
salvete omnes,

I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
words "Christvs Pantocrativs." I have looked in the dictionary, but I
cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
out?

Gratias bene,

T. Africanus Secundus Flamininus.






---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44631 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2006-07-12
Subject: Re: Newbie
Salve:

I'm glad you are excited to have found us. We are a very interesting, and
rewarding group to belong to. Welcome.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 7/12/06, royalphillie <royalphillie@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings all,
> I just recently applied for citizenship. I'm pretty excited about
> this. My name is Justin (Spurius Acilius) and I've been looking for
> religions of the pre-Christian era. I'm glad I found Religio Romana. I
> don't know what else to put, thanks for reading this.
>
> Justin
> (Sp. Acilius)
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44632 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, rocknrockabilly wrote:

> salvete omnes,
>
> I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
> Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
> words "Christvs Pantocrativs." I have looked in the dictionary, but I
> cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
> out?

Probably because it's the late Latin that had been mixed with Greek. It
means "Christ Almighty" (or "All-Powerful", if you prefer). Read the V as
U to see the Latinate modern form, but it's straight borrowing from Greek:
PAN "All", KRATOS "strength, power".

-- P. Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44633 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
In a message dated 7/12/2006 6:38:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
franceuropa@... writes:

I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
words "Christvs Pantocrativs.words "Christvs Pantocrativs.<WBR>" I
cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
out?




It's not Latin Its a form of Greek meaning overseer, or defender of
everyone. So roughly Christ the (Overseer or Protector) of All.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44634 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
> A. Tullia Scholastica T. Africano Secundo Flaminio quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> salvete omnes,
>
> I have a Latin question. A medieval village near my hometown in
> Gallia has a beautiful little church which displays the Latin
> words "Christvs Pantocrativs." I have looked in the dictionary, but I
> cannot find the meaning of the word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me
> out?
>
> ATS: As subsequent writers have noted, pantokratios is Greek, not Latin,
> so if you looked in the Latin dictionary, you would not have found it.
> However, it is also not listed in the unabridged classical Greek dictionary,
> Liddell, Scott, and Jones. Pantokrator, however, is listed, with the meaning
> of almighty; it is applied to Hermes, and to Christ. Pantokratia is
> omnipotence, and pantokratew (w for omega) means I am omnipotent.
> (pantokratein, to be omnipotent). Pantokratios looks like an adjective, but
> it is not classical Greek, though it may be later.
>
> Gratias bene,
>
> T. Africanus Secundus Flamininus.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Classicist
> Interpres Linguae Latinae
> Latinista et Hellenista Sodalitatis Musarum
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44635 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Results and Closing.
SALVETE !

Praetors, T. Galerius Paulinus and T. Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus,
Curule Aediles, G. Equitius Cato and T. Julius Sabinus, Praetorian
Cohors and Aedilician Cohors, have the honour to present you the
results of LUDI APOLLINARES and the religious celebration.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july13.htm

We want to thank to all participants for their dedication and respect
for the roman ancient tradition.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/indexapollo.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Curule Aedile.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44636 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: EDICTUM CURULIS AEDILES DE LUDI VICTORIAE 2759 a.U.c
SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

Ex Officio Curulis Aediles.

EDICTUM CURULIS AEDILES DE LUDI VICTORIAE 2759 a.U.c

1. According to the Official Calendar of NOVA ROMA festivals, from
July 20th to July 30th, LUDI VICTORIAE will be celebrated.

2. The celebration will be held in honour of Victoriae. The
events and the games are organized by the Curulis Aediles Cohors.

3.We, the Curulis Aediles and our Cohors, have the honour to
present the Ludi Victoriae program :

JULY 20th :
- Opening.
- Religious Celebrations.

JULY 21th :
- Ludi Victoriae Cultural Day.

JULY 22th :
- Ludi Scaenici.
- Certamen Historicum Daciae 1.

JULY 23th :
- Munera Gladiatoria ( quarters ).
- De Romanis Illustribus 1.

JULY 24th :
- Ludi Circenses ( quarters ).
- Certamen Historicum Daciae 2.

JULY 25th :
- Munera Gladiatoria ( semifinals ).
- De Romanis Illustribus 2.

JULY 26th :
- Ludi Circenses ( semifinals )
- Certamen Historicum Daciae 3.

JULY 27th.
- Munera Gladiatoria ( finals )
- De Romanis Illustribus 3.

JULY 28th.
- Ludi Circenses ( finals )
- Certamen Historicum Daciae 4.

JULY 29th.
- Cultural Award.
- De Romanis Illustribus 4.

JULY 30th.
- Results.
- Closing.

4. The extended program of LUDI VICTORIAE, including all the
informations
that are needed, are presented in the Curulis Aediles website :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/index.htm

and to the Ludi webpage :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi.htm


5. This Edictum takes force immediately.

Given by Curulis Aediles, T. Iulius Sabinus and G. Equitius Cato,
ante diem III Id. Quintiles MMDCCLIX a.U.c, ( 2759 a.U.c ), in the
consulship of G. Fabius Buteo Modianus and P.Tiberia Strabo.

OPTIME VALETE,
Curulis Aediles.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44637 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Subscriptions are open.
SALVETE !

According to the Official Calendar of NOVA ROMA festivals, from
July 20th to July 30th, LUDI VICTORIAE will be celebrated.

Ludi Victoriae Program :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi.htm

Ludi Victoriae Rules :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

Ludi Victoriae Subscriptions :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/participatelv.htm

For all informations, visit the Curule Aediles website :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44638 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Salvete [Welcome]
A. Apollonius Timotheo et Sp. Acilio sal.

[Aulus Apollonius says hello to Tim and Spurius Acilius]


Salvete ambo! Opto ut hic vigeatis.

[Welcome both of you! I hope you will thrive here.]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44639 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Salve Sabine,

Titus Iulius Sabinus wrote:
> SALVETE !
>
> Today it was the last day of Ludi Circenses : The final. Sure it was a
> winner.

I see Gnipho has driven to another victory. I shall reward him
appropriately. My thanks to you for conducting the circenses.

Vale,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44640 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Request for help from a non-citizen
Salvete omnes,

The following message was sent to the censors. It doesn't really have
anything to do with our duties, but I thought there might be some
citizen willing to help this guy make up a story about his character.

Vale,

-- Marinus

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: (to censores) legend
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:21:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: tim@...

** This message was sent via http://www.novaroma.org/bin/contact

Dear Sirs,

we are a serious wine maker and vineyard in the south of France, near
Carcassonne and about 70 kms from Narbonne.
We have vineyards in La Liviniere where we find many fragments of Roman
amphora which was ysed for shipping wine back to Rome.
We are called Domaine Gayda and we are releasing a range of expensive
wines under the " GAIDUS" label. We need some help creating a Legend and
identity to GAIDUS,was he a Centurion who settled here? Was he a wine
buyer for Rome? Can you or anyone you know create an acurate Legend
around him? The name "Domaine Gayda" comes, apparently from a Roman
called Gaidus??

PLEASE HELP WITH GIVING HIM A LIFE ??

//from: 80.10.159.209 |
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44641 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: From a non citizen,
Salve

Greetings. Perhaps some one can help me with my question. How did the Romans do mathmatics? I've searched and searched but all i seem to find, are sites which cover basic roman integers, ie, roman numerals. That's how they counted. but how did they do thier arithmatic?? Surely they didn't just set a greek slave to do it for them.

Gratia

Zoe King
albmd323232 <albmd32@...> wrote:
Salvete,

does anyone have any specific info about the Roman Market Days in
Wells, Maine this weekend. Ive got quite a long drive from Belfast and
I was wondering if the events will be the same both days, or would it
be worth it to try and find some accomodation for the evening?

Valete
Decimus Claudius Aquilius





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44642 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Salve,

zoe king schrieb:

> Greetings. Perhaps some one can help me with my question. How did the
> Romans do mathmatics? I've searched and searched but all i seem to
> find, are sites which cover basic roman integers, ie, roman numerals.
> That's how they counted. but how did they do thier arithmatic??
> Surely they didn't just set a greek slave to do it for them.

Not my area of expertise, really, but they did use abaci, of course. You
may not be so far off with the Greek slaves, though. At least the
(German) Wikipedia article on the history of mathematics points out that
mathematics did not play a great role in Rome at all. The great
mathematicians were all Greeks.

--
Salve,
T. Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44643 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
SALVE !

Maybe that links are useful to explain roman mathematics.

Usualy romans used abacus :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus
They used what we know as numeral system :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system
And roman used a type of multipication, dicovered by chance :
http://www.phy6.org/outreach/edu/roman.htm
They were very close by bi-quinary coded decimal system.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS


zoe king <ultramegazoe@...> wrote:

Salve

Greetings. Perhaps some one can help me with my question. How did the Romans do mathmatics? I've searched and searched but all i seem to find, are sites which cover basic roman integers, ie, roman numerals. That's how they counted. but how did they do thier arithmatic?? Surely they didn't just set a greek slave to do it for them.

Gratia

Zoe King
albmd323232 <albmd32@...> wrote:
Salvete,

does anyone have any specific info about the Roman Market Days in
Wells, Maine this weekend. Ive got quite a long drive from Belfast and
I was wondering if the events will be the same both days, or would it
be worth it to try and find some accomodation for the evening?

Valete
Decimus Claudius Aquilius

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








NOVA ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44644 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
rocknrockabilly wrote:
> I have looked in the dictionary, but I cannot find the meaning of the
> word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me out?

Salve, T. Africane Secunde Flaminine.

As a tertiary (last and probably least) possibility, it could be the
latin (as opposed to the more credible Greek options presented by other
parties) words "pancto" (sometimes written "panto") and "cratis",
meaning something like wickerwork/brush/thorns? driven
in/fastened/affixed. Which could then refer to either the famous crown
of thorns or the actual crucifiction.

So POSSIBLY latin for "thorncrowned" or "crucified". In the latter case
the appelation would be avoiding the actual word crucifixus, which is
latin, but avoiding words to avoid associations, criminals being
crucified, is hardly unheard of, etymologically speaking.

But I'm almost certainly wrong, more knowledgeable voices have already
recognised the word as Greek - I'm just giving you another option you
would be wise to ignore. I don't even believe in it myself. ;)

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44645 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
Salve Sabine!

Again you amaze me my friend! I had no idea about that multiplication
system. I can imagine a Roman multiplication contest at a Conventus...

Optime vale!

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
wrote:
>
> SALVE !
>
> Maybe that links are useful to explain roman mathematics.
>
> Usualy romans used abacus :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus
> They used what we know as numeral system :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system
> And roman used a type of multipication, dicovered by chance :
> http://www.phy6.org/outreach/edu/roman.htm
> They were very close by bi-quinary coded decimal system.
>
> VALE BENE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
> zoe king <ultramegazoe@...> wrote:
>
> Salve
>
> Greetings. Perhaps some one can help me with my question. How did
the Romans do mathmatics? I've searched and searched but all i seem to
find, are sites which cover basic roman integers, ie, roman numerals.
That's how they counted. but how did they do thier arithmatic?? Surely
they didn't just set a greek slave to do it for them.
>
> Gratia
>
> Zoe King
> albmd323232 <albmd32@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> does anyone have any specific info about the Roman Market Days in
> Wells, Maine this weekend. Ive got quite a long drive from Belfast and
> I was wondering if the events will be the same both days, or would it
> be worth it to try and find some accomodation for the evening?
>
> Valete
> Decimus Claudius Aquilius
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NOVA ROMANI !
> Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page
to your websites.
> http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm
>
> "Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius
Claudius
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44646 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Latin question
M. Hortensia T. Ocatvio Pio spd;
Ahenobarbe, thre is a typical form of icon from Orthodox
Christianity called Christ Pantocrator. Jesus as world-ruler, probably
a 'king of kings' sort of thing. But my knowledge of Christianity just
ran out;-
vale
Hortensia Maior

> But I'm almost certainly wrong, more knowledgeable voices have
already
> recognised the word as Greek - I'm just giving you another option you
> would be wise to ignore. I don't even believe in it myself. ;)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44647 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Re: Newbie
M. Hortensia Sp. Acilio spd;
welcome as well! Be sure the visit our religio Romana
yahoo group where there is a fine discussion of Roman religion, and
we have active pontifices who answer any questions.
M. Hortensia Maior

> I'm glad you are excited to have found us. We are a very
interesting, and
> rewarding group to belong to. Welcome.
>
> Vale:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Consul
>
> On 7/12/06, royalphillie <royalphillie@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all,
> > I just recently applied for citizenship. I'm pretty excited about
> > this. My name is Justin (Spurius Acilius) and I've been looking
for
> > religions of the pre-Christian era. I'm glad I found Religio
Romana. I
> > don't know what else to put, thanks for reading this.
> >
> > Justin
> > (Sp. Acilius)
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44648 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-13
Subject: Ludi Apollinares
Salve Romans

Congratulations to the winners of this years Ludi Apollinares

Ludi Apollinares Venationes : Lion Likos - owner C. Arminius Reccanellus<http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=7658>.

Ludi Apollinares Circenses : Petronius Gnipho with chariot Vita Brevis - owner G. Equitius Marinus<http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=2356>.

I would like to express my sincere thanks to Titus Iulius Sabinus for taking the lead role in presenting this years Ludi Apollinares.
He build a very impressive website in record time.

He has done an outstanding job!!!!

I would also like to express my thanks to the Praetorian staffs and the staffs of the Curule Aediles, Titus Iulius Sabinus and Gaius Equitius Cato for a job well done.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44649 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis,
> praesertim C. Equitio Marino censori S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Sabine,
>
> Titus Iulius Sabinus wrote:
>> > SALVETE !
>> >
>> > Today it was the last day of Ludi Circenses : The final. Sure it was a
>> > winner.
>
> I see Gnipho has driven to another victory. I shall reward him
> appropriately. My thanks to you for conducting the circenses.
>
>
> ATS: Congratulations on your victory! I trust all have recovered from
> that little spill in the Megalenses, for the Ludi Victoriae are coming on the
> heels of the Apollinares and we are looking forward to your participation.
> How is Aoife¹s health? Is she on the mend? And a new chariot is ready, I
> take it? Inquiring reportorial minds want to know...
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
>
Vale, et valete,

ATS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44650 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Latin question
> A. Tullia Scholastica Praetori T. Octavio Pio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> rocknrockabilly wrote:
>> > I have looked in the dictionary, but I cannot find the meaning of the
>> > word Pantocrativs. Can anyone help me out?
>
> Salve, T. Africane Secunde Flaminine.
>
> As a tertiary (last and probably least) possibility, it could be the
> latin (as opposed to the more credible Greek options presented by other
> parties) words "pancto" (sometimes written "panto") and "cratis",
> meaning something like wickerwork/brush/thorns? driven
> in/fastened/affixed. Which could then refer to either the famous crown
> of thorns or the actual crucifiction.
>
> ATS: In Latin, cratis does mean wickerwork, and pango, pangere does mean
> insert firmly, fix, plant, but this does not seem to be the formation here.
> Methinks it would rather be turned around in Latin. Certainly nothing like
> this can be extracted from Greek words spelled similarly; plekein is to plait,
> and nothing like cratis means wicker or thorns in Greek. The LSJ and my
> Wodehouse Greek-English dictionary list nothing of the sort. This looks
> Greek, and since most educated Romans knew that language, I suspect that
> that¹s what we have here. There are less obscure ways of saying (to crucify),
> and there¹s mention of a Greek torture with some similarities to thorns and
> the like, but I suspect that you have gone too far afield on this one, amice.
> I might add that the past participle of pango is pactus, not panctus, and that
> the verb has a number of meanings along the lines of settle or stipulate,
> covenant, compose poetry, etc., which don¹t quite fit this scenario.
>
>
> So POSSIBLY latin for "thorncrowned" or "crucified". In the latter case
> the appelation would be avoiding the actual word crucifixus, which is
> latin, but avoiding words to avoid associations, criminals being
> crucified, is hardly unheard of, etymologically speaking.
>
> ATS: If memory serves, one of the phrases for that was in crucem tollere.
> There¹s also in crucem agere, cruce affigere, and cruci suffigere, saith the
> English-Latin dictionary. Crucify seems to be our invention; Latin uses a
> phrase, not a single word for this.
>
> But I'm almost certainly wrong, more knowledgeable voices have already
> recognised the word as Greek - I'm just giving you another option you
> would be wise to ignore. I don't even believe in it myself. ;)
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
Vale, et valete,

Scholastica


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44651 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
noone has an idea, what the incense from plinius is used forß




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "kriss112233" <kriss112233@...>
wrote:
>
> hey!
>
> i'm still searching about informations about ancient roman incense.
>
> i found a incense recipe, which belongs to plinius: verbena,
> junipierus, bay, sage and thymus.
>
> does anybody know this text passage from plinius? what was this
> incense used for? is this an offering for the gods too?
>
> i like this combination of herbs, i'll try them today. for me it
> sounds like a very ancient recipe, because of the used herbs.
every
> herb grows here in europe. maybe later the usage of resins like
> olibanum an mhyrr came to the romans....
>
>
> thanks for help
> Kriss!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44652 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
A. Apollonius Cristinae (?) sal.

Salve, Kriss. Could you tell us which book and chapter of Plinius contains the recipe? If I could read the original text I might be able to help.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44653 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: From a non citizen,
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, zoe king wrote:

>
> Salve
>
> Greetings. Perhaps some one can help me with my question. How did
> the Romans do mathmatics? I've searched and searched but all i seem to
> find, are sites which cover basic roman integers, ie, roman numerals.
> That's how they counted. but how did they do thier arithmatic?? Surely
> they didn't just set a greek slave to do it for them.
>
> Gratia

By using a gadget related to the abacus. A series of grooves into which
you placed pebbles to tally up the numbers you were adding. (That's where
out "calculate" comes from: "calculi" is Latin for "pebbles".) There's
the trick. You want to add 7 and 14...er, excuse me, VII and XIV. Get
your trusty calculator out and load it up:

Here's seven: and here's fourteen: combined: ._
. . . .
. .
. . .
. . .
. . .
. . . .
- - - - .
x i x i .
. .
- -
x i

Whoops! We've got more than ten calculi in the units column. (See
how this string overruns the little tick-mark that, as a knowledgeable
mathematician, you've put on your calculator?) That means
we take ten of the "i" pebbles out and switch one over to the "x" column,
and get this: .
. .
- -
x i Twenty-one sesterces. Mehercle! Prices are going

through the roof these days.

-- Publius Livius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44654 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: [SCI FI Wire] Rome Lives In Romanitas
Salvete Omnes,

I have not read this book, but the reviews at Amazon.com are
interesting in that they are either 5 star (great!) or 1 star
(horrible). They are evenly divided in number.

In looking it over, I came across an older novel with the same basic
theme that some may want to investigate:

"Roma Eterna" by Robert Silverberg.

Valete,

Gaius Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Tim Peters <timemastertim@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I know this book was talked about on this list about a year ago,
but I
> just found this news article on SCI FI Wire, which seemed worth
mentioning.
>
> Has anyone read the book? Is it any good?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> Rome Lives In Romanitas
>
> SF author Sophia McDougall, whose novel Romanitas -
> http://www.romanitas.com/ - was just nominated for a Sidewise
Award for
> alternate history, told SCI FI Wire that the novel is set in the
present
> day in a version of the world where the Roman Empire never
fell. "Over
> the centuries it's spread to include much of Africa, Asia and
North and
> South America," McDougall said in an interview. "It begins with a
state
> funeral of a glamorous imperial couple being televised across the
world
> and a teenage slave girl trying to rescue her brother from death
on a
> mechanized metal crucifix on the banks of the Thames."
>
> McDougall fell in love with Rome when she went to the city with
her
> school at age 17, she said. "I studied Latin at school," she
said. "And
> yet, for all that, I don't really know where the idea [for the
novel]
> came from. I hadn't looked at any ancient history for years; I
wasn't a
> classicist. I knew I wanted to write a novel eventually, but I was
23. I
> didn't expect it to happen for a while. [But] suddenly it was like
an
> announcement in my head: 'A trilogy of novels about a modern Roman
> Empire. Main characters: a brother and sister who are slaves,
and, ...
> oh, yes, a young boy who's a possible heir to the throne.'"
>
> Part of the appeal of writing in alternate settings is the idea of
the
> fragility of history, McDougall said. "That quite small decisions
or
> incidents could—must—change the whole course of the future, and
that
> such things must be happening all the time, and yet cannot always
be
> recognizable. It's quite frightening in a rather exciting way: so
much
> possibility. But as I've been writing Romanitas, I've found myself
> thinking that part of the pleasure of alternate history is the
exact
> opposite: the discovery things can't come out as different as all
that.
> Names and the order of events can change, but if the resources are
the
> same, conflicts will arise over them. Those conflicts will drive
forward
> technology and lead to these kinds of internal questions. That
kind of
> thing. ... But I didn't set out to write an alternate history and
look
> for ideas. It was just what came. And it wasn't only the premise.
Most
> of the characters and plot came at the same moment, which is why I
don't
> intend to write any more stories set in the same world once the
trilogy
> is finished."
>
> The second volume of the trilogy, Rome Burning, is nearly
completed,
> McDougall said. "It's set three years after Romanitas," she said.
> "Romanitas gives a mostly bottom-up view of this alternative
world.
> There's going to be more of a top-down perspective in [Rome
Burning],
> more of the grandeur of the Empire. There's a scene near the
beginning
> set in Delphi—which I've turned into a kind of cross between Las
Vegas
> and Lourdes—which I'm quite proud of. And it has a more global
scope, I
> think. Romanitas is mostly set in Rome, London and France/Gaul.
The
> second book hinges around a stewing conflict between the Roman
Empire
> and its Nionian (Japanese) rival over North America, and much of
it is
> set in the East." —John Joseph Adams
>
> http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=3&id=37003&type=0
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>
> --
> Valete,
> T. Flavius Calvus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44655 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Shakespear's Romans
Can anyone tell me why shakespear portrays Marcus Antonius as noble and heroic?? In my reading, he's a huge pig, whom Ceasar constanly has to work to restrain. He ordered the death of cicero for one example.


".



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44656 From: kriss112233 Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: incense
i'm searching the book and chapter from plinius book too!
i got the recipe from another book...so i'm also interested what kind
of infromations arer around the recipe...

ciao
Kriss!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius Cristinae (?) sal.
>
> Salve, Kriss. Could you tell us which book and chapter of Plinius
contains the recipe? If I could read the original text I might be able
to help.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44657 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Alternate Roman History
Salvete omnes,

There is another trilogy of books mentioned on the ml before on
alternate Roman history by Kirk Mitchell where Rome continued on and
never fell:

* *Procurator (Ace 0-441-68029-1, Apr '84 [Mar '84], $2.75, 234pp,
pb) Alternate-history sf novel, a first novel.


* *The New Barbarians (Ace 0-441-57101-8, Dec '86 [Nov '86], $2.95,
295pp, pb) Alternate-world sf novel of high-tech Romans vs. Aztecs,
sequel to Procurator.

* *Cry Republic (Ace 0-441-12389-9, Aug '89 [Jul '89], $3.95, 267pp,
pb) [Procurator] Alternate history sf novel. Political intrigue in a
20th-century Roman empire. Third in a series.


I really enjoyed them and you can still find them through the
bookfinder.com or amazon.


Regards,

QSP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44658 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Salve Zoe,

When I studied Shakespeare's Julius Caesar and MacBeth years ago,
our professor taught us about the general philosophy of the 16th
century Europe called the chain of being. In short, God set up the
universe as a social pyramid with God on top,next the King or queen
followed downward by the nobility, clergy, tradesmen and merchants
with peasants on the bottom. Should a peasant try to become a
nobleman or a nobleman usurp a king, this structured universe would
then fall into chaos (murder, civil war, downfall of characters)
until things were brought back into the divine order. I suppose this
philosophy justified the systems at this time and prevented much
rebellion and class struggles keeping the people in their place.

Apparently Shakespeare, a good friend and admirer of Queen Elizabeth
The First was quite upset by the revolt of the Earl Of Essex against
her in his time and wrote a few of his tradgedies to help illustrate
the danger and ultimate chaos of overthrowing your leaders. I would
think that he, as many other writers and movie makers do today,
tried to fit the better qualities of Marc Antony into his particular
time frame and paint him more as the few voices in that wilderness
that immediately spoke up, reminded the population of their initial
folly in forgeting Caesar's qualities and be instrumental in turning
Rome back in the right direction. Antony's short comings and vices
were put on the back burner for his play.


Regards,

QSP



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, zoe king <ultramegazoe@...> wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone tell me why shakespear portrays Marcus Antonius as
noble and heroic?? In my reading, he's a huge pig, whom Ceasar
constanly has to work to restrain. He ordered the death of cicero
for one example.
>
>
> ".
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44659 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
Salve Scholastica, et salvete quirites,

A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:
>> ATS: Congratulations on your victory! I trust all have recovered from
>>that little spill in the Megalenses, for the Ludi Victoriae are coming on the
>>heels of the Apollinares and we are looking forward to your participation.

Have no fear. I'll be there, as will Gnipho.

>>How is Aoife¹s health? Is she on the mend?

She is, yes. She's been visiting family in Britannia, and may be back soon.

>> And a new chariot is ready, I take it?

It ran in the recent races. The newest Vita Brevis, with Gnipho
driving. There's also a new Biga Fortuna in the shed, and whenever
Aoife returns she'll be driving it.

Vale, et valete,

-- Marinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44660 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares
SALVE PRAETOR TIBERI GALERI !
SALVETE !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:
> I would also like to express my thanks to the Praetorian staffs
and the staffs of the Curule Aediles, Titus Iulius Sabinus and Gaius
Equitius Cato for a job well done.>>>

In my name, Aedile Cato's name and our wonderful Aedilician Cohors,
thank you for your nice words and elegant appreciations.

I want to add my special thanks to Flavius Galerius Aurelianus for
his great initiative. I'm honoured.

OPTIME VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44661 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
SALVETE ROMANI !

Attention ! Illustra Tullia Scholastica is ready for Circenses. If you
want wonderful stories, don't forget to add descriptions about
chariots, drivers, tactics to your subscriptions.
Even if is summer and hot, and a lot are in vacation, Ludi Victoriae
will be celebrate in a proper mode, with the same dedication from the
Aediles Cohors honourable members.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:
> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
voluntatis, praesertim C. Equitio Marino censori S.P.D.

<<<for the Ludi Victoriae are coming on the heels of the Apollinares
and we are looking forward .....>>>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44662 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Cultural Day of Ludi Victoriae.
SALVETE !

Cultural Day of Ludi Victoria has to it origin an ideea about the
cooperation between Aediles Cohors, Sodalitas Musarum and dedicated
citizens to the cultural part of our organization.
With their goodwill I received articles, poems, fictious stories. I
want to express my sincere thanks and public appreciations to the
following citizens :

- M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

- S. Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.

- M. Cassius Philippus.

- G. Equitius Cato.

Your works aren't simple works ! They represent the expression of
your fine interest to the roman culture and tradition, and, in the
same time, a friendly conection between the different world cultures
from NR.

More, if someone, but only Probationary Citizen, want to
participate, to post a good article, poem or another kind of work,
now is the time ! Write me privately. I will reply with the
necessaries informations.Cultural Day of Ludi Victoriae is a good
opportunity to present your abilities.

For informations about Ludi Victoriae, visit the Aediles website at :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

PS. Cultural Day is organized to July 21th 2759 a.U.c
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44663 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Cultural Award.
SALVETE NOVI ROMANI !

This is the Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege's message and in the same
time, how you already observed to the Aediles website, rules
section :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm
the subject for the next Cultural Award :

"Often, our ancestors, in order to celebrate the victories of the
legions and their commanders, under the inspiring force of the
Muses, sought to catch the glimpse of those events in literary
works. What we are trying to do today is to remember and celebrate,
to revive and meditate upon the honorable deeds of the ancient
Romans. And we can do more. We have the possibility to attain a
double perspective of things past and of things that will survive
time and humanity's unfolding, things that for us Nova Romans will
always represent the possibility of development.

The ludi celebrate not only the success of one commander or of one
legion. It is a moment when one ought to think of what Rome stands
for, of the essence of the entire Roman long line of victories, on
the battle fields and not only.

The subject of the Cultural Award should deal with the tumult of the
seeker of glory and success, with the physical and mental egresses
that Romans had to take on their path to victory. The clamor and the
excitement, alongside cold blood and good tempers at the same time,
could be expressed in the form of a dramatic dialogue, not more than
1000 words.

It seems difficult to find a delimitation of the subject, it is not
easy to put in a discourse the grandeur or the dignity of the Roman
figures. This certainly leaves place for the self of each artist. In
other times in Rome maybe some of you were poets, and others
courageous legionaries; if the Muses are favoring you, now it is the
moment to let fugitive memories remind us all about the ancient
times, so that we will become even more aware of what we are today
and of what we stand for. "

Send your works, until July 19th, only to this e-mail :
iulia.cytheris.aege@... with the subject : Cultural Award.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44664 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: News from Factions
SALVETE !

There are some short news from the Factions. Check their pages :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/albata.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/russata.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/praesina.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/veneta.htm

For Ludi Victoriae send your subscription to iulius_sabinus@...

Ludi Victoriae Circenses Rules :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44665 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Alternate Roman History
Salvete

I've added these to the wiki page
http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Reading_list_for_modern_fiction

You can click on any ISBN in the wiki and be brought to a page that
will let you buy from Amazon (with some of the cost going to Nova
Roma) AND it will also let you check for the book in many libraries
around the world.

Also, if *your* favorite library isn't listed, contact me and maybe it
can be added to the system.

Optime valete

M. Lucr. Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> There is another trilogy of books mentioned on the ml before on
> alternate Roman history by Kirk Mitchell where Rome continued on and
> never fell:
>
> * *Procurator (Ace 0-441-68029-1, Apr '84 [Mar '84], $2.75, 234pp,
> pb) Alternate-history sf novel, a first novel.
>
>
> * *The New Barbarians (Ace 0-441-57101-8, Dec '86 [Nov '86], $2.95,
> 295pp, pb) Alternate-world sf novel of high-tech Romans vs. Aztecs,
> sequel to Procurator.
>
> * *Cry Republic (Ace 0-441-12389-9, Aug '89 [Jul '89], $3.95, 267pp,
> pb) [Procurator] Alternate history sf novel. Political intrigue in a
> 20th-century Roman empire. Third in a series.
>
>
> I really enjoyed them and you can still find them through the
> bookfinder.com or amazon.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44666 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: ALLONS!
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus bonae
voluntatis, praesertim Gallis, S.P.D.

Allons, enfants de la patrie, le jour de gloire est arrivée! C¹est
aujourd¹hui le quatorze juillet, le jour de la prise de la Bastille!
Beaucoup de félicitations!

We join our French citizens in rejoicing for their independence day, for
government free of tyranny is a very republican Roman thing to celebrate.

Contre nous de la tyrannie...

Valete,

ATS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44667 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-14
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares - Ludi Circenses Finals
> A. Tullia Scholastica T. Iulio Sabino quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> SALVETE ROMANI !
>
> Attention ! Illustra Tullia Scholastica is ready for Circenses.
>
> ATS: That¹s an open question...nature must subtract about 30 degrees
> Fahrenheit and an equivalent amount from the humidity before I¹ll be ready for
> anything other than acceptance of a grant to study the life and times of the
> Adélie penguin.
>
>
> TIS: If you
> want wonderful stories, don't forget to add descriptions about
> chariots, drivers, tactics to your subscriptions.
>
>
> ATS: And this is essential...the more information you can give about the
> chariot, the driver, the horses, and your tactics, the better the race reports
> will be. Fortuna Thules dictates the outcome, but the stories will be little
> more than bare-bones without the chariot owners¹ input‹at length.
>
> TIS: Even if is summer and hot, and a lot are in vacation, Ludi Victoriae
> will be celebrate in a proper mode, with the same dedication from the
> Aediles Cohors honourable members.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> Scholastica
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis, praesertim C. Equitio Marino censori S.P.D.
>
> <<<for the Ludi Victoriae are coming on the heels of the Apollinares
> and we are looking forward .....>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44668 From: appiusclaudiuspriscus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Do citizens of NR have any rights? Or only privileges?
Salvete omnes,

Today, an official of NR told me that (although the charges against me were dropped and I am still a citizen) I may not vote, I may not have my picture in the Album Gentium (not even the innocuous passport-style picture that I sent), and I may not be a member of my provincial messageboard (provincial yahoo group).

According to the rules of Nova Roma, I'm still a citizen. If the
citizens of Nova Roma want citizenship to confer any rights, now is
the time to speak up. If you want to be slaves of the senate, now is the time to be quiet.

In Rome, citizens had rights. Even in macrostates that are not
republics, citizens have rights. Do citizens of NR have any rights?

Valete,
Appius Claudius Priscus

Moderators Note: I have posted this as it was send in but I will state that the reason Appius Claudius Priscus can not vote or hold office is because he is under a Nota lawfully imposed by the Censors of Nova Roma.

When the Nota is lifted he may vote and stand for office.

As to the provincial message board the Praetors of Nova Roma are the moderators of only TWO Nova Roman lists and the provincial message board are not within our jurisdiction.

Lastly Appius Claudius Priscus seems to be under the delusion that we allow slavery in Nova Roma we do not.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44669 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Do citizens of NR have any rights? Or only privileges?
M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
for those cives who need reminding this App. Claudius Priscus
is the pathetic neo-nazi. Obviously being ignored has worked and now
once more he's trying desperately to gain attention, in order to
have an audience.
Ignore him & he will go away. This is my personal request to
all our cives.
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "appiusclaudiuspriscus"
<appiusclaudiuspriscus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Today, an official of NR told me that (although the charges
against me were dropped and I am still a citizen) I may not vote, I
may not have my picture in the Album Gentium (not even the innocuous
passport-style picture that I sent), and I may not be a member of my
provincial messageboard (provincial yahoo group).
>
> According to the rules of Nova Roma, I'm still a citizen. If the
> citizens of Nova Roma want citizenship to confer any rights, now is
> the time to speak up. If you want to be slaves of the senate, now
is the time to be quiet.
>
> In Rome, citizens had rights. Even in macrostates that are not
> republics, citizens have rights. Do citizens of NR have any
rights?
>
> Valete,
> Appius Claudius Priscus
>
> Moderators Note: I have posted this as it was send in but I will
state that the reason Appius Claudius Priscus can not vote or hold
office is because he is under a Nota lawfully imposed by the Censors
of Nova Roma.
>
> When the Nota is lifted he may vote and stand for office.
>
> As to the provincial message board the Praetors of Nova Roma are
the moderators of only TWO Nova Roman lists and the provincial
message board are not within our jurisdiction.
>
> Lastly Appius Claudius Priscus seems to be under the delusion that
we allow slavery in Nova Roma we do not.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44670 From: Brutus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Salve!

The history of the Late Republic is so complex and factional that one man's hero will inevitably be another man's villain. Antonius, like anyone else, had both good and bad qualities and occasional spectacular lapses of judgment. I'm not actually convinced that Shakespear does present him as being particular heroic. In the play he vacilates and reaches a fairly shoddy accomodation with Caesar's murderers before then turning on Marcus Brutus in the funeral oration. Of course different productions portray him in different ways but the famous film version starring Marlon Brando makes him seem rather tricksy and less than completely noble.

Finally, as regards Cicero, the real Antonius had deep and understandable personal reasons for detesting the man. Cicero was directly responsible for the murder of P.Cornelius Lentulus Sura who was Antonius' stepfather as well as a number of other Catilinarians some of whom had close links with Caesar and Antonius. Even if Cicero was not (?) directly involved in the later assassination of Clodius, another leading populist politician with whom Antonius had very close links (Antonius later married Fulvia, Clodius' widow), he still defended Milo the Optimate gangleader accused of the crime at his trial and supported the latter's candidacy for Consul. He had also (eventually) thrown in his lot with Caesar's assassins and launched a blistering attack on Antonius himself in his Philippic Orations.

Vengeance may not be pretty but Antonius had his reasons and as I said one man's hero may be another's villain.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

zoe king <ultramegazoe@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me why shakespear portrays Marcus Antonius as noble and heroic?? In my reading, he's a huge pig, whom Ceasar constanly has to work to restrain. He ordered the death of cicero for one example.

".



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44671 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Dextrarum iunctio
SALVETE !

The most important person from a roman wedding was the bride. In
that day, she rennounce at tunica praetexta and, she wear tunica
recta. Then, using a special comb, hasta caelibaris, she will do a
special hairdo, six tress first, and from them, a loop of hair. To
it she put a orange veil, flammeum, and a palla will cover her
shoulders. On the top of her head, a nice flowers coronet will be
knitted.
After the augural sacrifice, the tabulae nuptiales is signed. Ten
witness are present for that momment, and then, a old woman, married
once, univira, will unify the right hands of bride and groom. This
is dextrarum iunctio, the roman wedding solemn momment.

In these modern days the events are different. But the feelings are
the same for two from our citizens, Iulius Probus and Iulia Severa.
Today, sponsalia and tommorow, cena nuptialis. I want to wish them a
happy wedding.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44672 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
Salve Tite Iuli,

Given the rather gloomy day that I've been having, I thank you for
posting this. Something that is always a comfort is knowing that good
things are still happening, even as I review the horrors that mankind is
all too apt to create (I'm currently writing a history of genocide, so
I'm coming to see this all too well).

To our good cives Probus and Severa, may the Gods more than smile on you
today, tomorrow, and for all time and after.

Vale,

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44673 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: VOX ROMANA podcast is coming!!
M.Hortensia Maior Quiritibus spd;


VOX ROMANA your favorite free Roman & Latin podcast
is coming soon!!
download itunes & check our site:
http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/

Learn Latin! Hear the news around the Provincia,
Military History, Book Reviews, the Aeneid
all brought to you by the fabulous
team of podcasters devoted
to Romanitas!!


M. Hortensia Maior, producer
VOX ROMANA podcast
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44674 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Some words
SALVETE !

The Ludi Victoriae Cultural Award is not an easy contest for this
time. A dramatic dialogue represent more than to simple write about
a subject. It need inspiration, it represent an art. Is more than a
challange.
Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege is able to present for each time in a
very original manner, the subject. We can understand from her words
what she want but, in the same time, she let to each competitor the
final decision.

" It seems difficult to find a delimitation of the subject, it is
not easy to put in a discourse the grandeur or the dignity of the
Roman figures. This certainly leaves place for the self of each
artist. "

The grandeur or the dignity of the Romans ! I'm sure that all of us
are looking to the past times as ones with more glory, with more
nobleness than the actual days. And from the begining of the world
the writers have done the same thing : they repeat the stories until
they create a model. Is the mankind ability to perpetuate through
time, the good part of life and the knowledges gathered by entires
generations. For example, from Romans we have a model of life,
definite by the virtues. All that virtues represent the result of
the each attitude taked by romans in front of major events. But here
is necessary to point out, that, they have a steadfast attitude.
From here the model is coming. And for that through time it was
idealized.

To Ludi Victoriae, each of you, have the posibility to bring back in
our memory the most important character who create the model : the
Roman, in his different aspects of life, as citizen, as soldier or
commander, as leader of his family, and why not, as a young boy or
girl, with his or her own dreams.
Sometime they are wellknown. Horatii, Cincinnatus, Scaevola,
Cloelia, Cornelia, Scipio and so on.
Sometime they remained unknown. But from the both perspectives, to
write and to participate to the Cultural Award represent a way to
honour all.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44675 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-15
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Call for Munera Gladiatoria.
SALVETE QUIRITES !

Sure, a lot of you, in this time of the year are to the wellknown
roman baths. Is vacation, of course.

But the gladiators, too ? Their important duties are, first, the
training, and second, to demonstrate in arena their fight abilities.
Don't let for tommorow what you can do today ! Participate !

The rules for Munera Gladiatoria are here :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44676 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2006-07-16
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
> Salve, T. Iuli Sabine, et salvete, quirites, socii, peregrinique bonae
> voluntatis!
>
>
>
> SALVETE !
>
> The most important person from a roman wedding was the bride. In
> that day, she rennounce at tunica praetexta and, she wear tunica
> recta. Then, using a special comb, hasta caelibaris, she will do a
> special hairdo, six tress first, and from them, a loop of hair. To
> it she put a orange veil, flammeum, and a palla will cover her
> shoulders. On the top of her head, a nice flowers coronet will be
> knitted.
> After the augural sacrifice, the tabulae nuptiales is signed. Ten
> witness are present for that momment, and then, a old woman, married
> once, univira, will unify the right hands of bride and groom. This
> is dextrarum iunctio, the roman wedding solemn momment.
>
> In these modern days the events are different. But the feelings are
> the same for two from our citizens, Iulius Probus and Iulia Severa.
> Today, sponsalia and tommorow, cena nuptialis. I want to wish them a
> happy wedding.
>
> ATS: I join in wishing them hearty congratulations, and best wishes for a
> happy life together. How lovely!
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
> .
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44677 From: cant97@hughes.net Date: 2006-07-16
Subject: Hubby's Departure
My Dear Friends,

I'd like to thank you all for your support and prayers. Having my husband
leave was a very difficult thing, but as a Warrior-type Pagan I realize why
he had to go. I've seen pictures of the aftermath those terrorists leave
behind, and I want them dead...gone...end of story. As much as I miss
Dennis, I am very proud that he is supporting the war against terrorism. I
pray for peace. I pray for a world where people don't exist who would wire a
building full of school children to explode over a political cause. The sad
fact is, however, I wake every morning to a world that is very much
imperfect. Sometimes, we have to fight. War is ugly, and I hate it. No
matter how you go about it, innocent lives are lost. These terrorists
purposely target innocents, however. In my opinion they have crossed a line
that you just do not cross without being punished harshly. May the Gods save
all of us...American, European, Arab..all of us...from this menace.

Dennis emailed me to let me know that he arrived safely at Fort Dix. His
pre-deployment training will be pretty intense, but he'll be able to stay in
touch with us. He has asked for funny jokes, car, motorcycle and techie
magazines and oatmeal raisin cookies. Most of all I think he needs prayers.
He hates being away from his family. He's torn between his duty to us and
his duty to our country. Because I do not have biological family to turn to,
he's so worried about me. I tried to assure him, but those of you who know
him know how protective he is. I think that's one of his finest qualities.

I love you guys one and all, and Dennis and I am deeply grateful for your
support. Thanks to you, he doesn't have to worry about me and Mason as much
as he normally would. Thanks to you, my loneliness is manageable. Please
continue to pray and light candles for us, and keep company with me and
Mason. My family is getting through this because of you. You are all
wonderful people.

In love and light,

Louise
aka Lady Carissa Stormbringer
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44678 From: Claudio Guzzo Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: the Priscus case
Salve.
Roman Ius is not sexist. A matrona could be sui iuris, infact. But there is only one vote for each familia.
Roman Slavery is a better kind of life if you compare it with our lower or middle class: a slave had something more than a peculium.

In Nova... Roma, of course, there are modern women and men that pretend to be the judge of Roma and to build their modern Roma; a lot of them live in USA, a modern state, a country that belongs to redskins, but USA calls them natives and makes them live in some kind of zoo. USA is the modern empire and rules this Nova... Roma, infact Italy and Roma are just a Provincia! In USA women and men can vote, people over 18 years can vote (but only few people vote), everyone can be elected the president of USA and decide to use some atomic bomb again, but everybody is money's slave and must work for someone else.
Modern life... in USA and provinciae.
Sometimes wasps, but all other people too, must find a public enemy, some common danger, the evil. It often is a man with black skin, 25 years old, from an ugly family and living in a bad area; they often kill him.
Did Nova Roma find his enemy?
Here it is, the Priscus case; maybe he is racist and sexist, so he had a nota and cannot write to other novaromans in his Provincia, cannot vote, cannot make see his picture. But he is still alive and we, citizens of the modern empire, are worried.
Vale.
Appius Claudius Cicero
************************************************************
Moderators Note:

This post is not on topic and the thread should end here.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44679 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
In a message dated 7/14/2006 12:33:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ultramegazoe@... writes:

Can anyone tell me why shakespear portrays Marcus Antonius as noble and
heroic?? In my reading, he's a huge pig, whom Ceasar constanly has to work to
restrain. He ordered the death of cicero for one example.





He was a product of his times. He apparently was charismatic and could get
legionaries to do wonders for him, but as a field commander he left a lot to
be desired. How many times did his enemies out maneuver him in the field?
He failed in his Parthian campaign as well.

Actium was forced on him, since he wasn't sure if his army, paid for by
Egypt's gold, would stay loyal in a land engagement. The Egyptian navy, loyal to
Kleopatra, was a better bet. However, he was not a naval commander, while
Aggripus was. After he lost, the only way out was the obvious and he took it.

Shakespeare was attracted to the "nobility of failure" as one themes he
explored in his dramas. His Antonius was not based on the real fellow, but an
ideal of how Antonius should have behaved in the face of adversity.

I.E, it is fiction.

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44680 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
In a message dated 7/17/2006 4:04:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
claudio.guzzo@... writes:

In Nova... Roma, of course, there are modern women and men that pretend to
be the judge of Roma and to build their modern Roma; a lot of them live in
USA, a modern state,
If you live in Italy, you live in a modern state as well.


a country that belongs to redskins,

We call them native Americans.


but USA calls them natives and makes them live in some kind of zoo.


A reservation is not a zoo. And with today's tribal gambling laws, the
natives are doing quite well, monetary wise.


USA is the modern empire and rules this Nova... Roma, in fact Italy and Roma
are just a Provincia!

That's because we lovers of things Roman, in the US started this thing. The
Italians for some reason did not.


In USA women and men can vote, people over 18 years can vote (but only few
people vote),
Yes, isn't that a paradox?


everyone can be elected the president of USA and decide to use some atomic
bomb again, but everybody is money's slave and must work for someone else.


No, you have to born a US citizen to be president. Come now, even in Rome,
unless your family was landed aristocracy, you worked for someone, even if he
was your "patron."


Modern life... in USA and provinciae.
Sometimes wasps, but all other people too, must find a public enemy, some
common danger, the evil. It often is a man with black skin, 25 years old, from
an ugly family and living in a bad area; they often kill him.

that is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP). And no, you are thinking of
the post war of the rebellion's Reconstruction in 1866.


Did Nova Roma find his enemy?

It is "their" enemy


Here it is, the Priscus case; maybe he is racist and sexist, so he had a
nota and cannot write to other nova romans in his Provincia,

Of course he can write his fellow NR civies in the provinces. A Nota does
not prevent
that.


cannot vote, cannot make see his picture. But he is still alive and we,
citizens of the modern empire, are worried.

Not everyone is worried. When the Senate first heard of his antics, they
were made to sound worse than they really were. No one's fault, and after
investigation it was discovered that he really did nothing wrong.


Vale.
Appius Claudius Cicero


Well Claudius I have to say, you sure know nothing about the US, or Nova
Roma.
So what exactly was the purpose of your pretty speech, except to complain
about
Nova Roma's lack of Italian centric status?

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44681 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
A. Apollonius Q. Maximo sal.

Ap. Claudius Cicero scripsit:

> Did Nova Roma find his enemy? <

Scripsisti Maxime:

> It is "their" enemy <

Maxime, if one is going to correct another's English it is best to make sure one is not mistaken oneself. "Nova Roma" is singular, therefore the correct pronoun cannot be "their", which is plural. The correct prounoun is "its", or perhaps (since Nova Roma is feminine in Latin) "her". :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44682 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
In a message dated 7/17/2006 10:35:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
a_apollonius_cordus@... writes:

Maxime, if one is going to correct another's English it is best to make sure
one is not mistaken oneself. "Nova Roma" is singular, therefore the correct
pronoun cannot be "their", which is plural.


Absolutely correct. But since I view NR as not an enity, but of thousands
of people, I substituted "their" as plural instead. I blame the heat here.
It's 3:30 in the afternoon and it is 97 degrees.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44683 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
I may be wrong. (probably am)
But I think I remember reading that for the purposes of grammar corporate
entities are considered plural in British English. And since everyone knows
that all good Romans spoke with an English accent, it only makes since to
use British grammar.

N'est pas?
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.


On 7/17/06, A. Apollonius Cordus <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius Q. Maximo sal.
>
> Ap. Claudius Cicero scripsit:
>
>
> > Did Nova Roma find his enemy? <
>
> Scripsisti Maxime:
>
> > It is "their" enemy <
>
> Maxime, if one is going to correct another's English it is best to make
> sure one is not mistaken oneself. "Nova Roma" is singular, therefore the
> correct pronoun cannot be "their", which is plural. The correct prounoun is
> "its", or perhaps (since Nova Roma is feminine in Latin) "her". :)
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44684 From: Titus Sergius Rufinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Salvete -

I'm not sure if this applies here - not knowing the macro-national
locations or dialects of anyone involved, but

http://tinyurl.com/not5k

Is a link to the Wikipedia explaining the difference between US and
British English on the subject of plurals... I would note as well
that according to some American sources the same rules as for British
applied in the American South until very recently (I was taught such
British grammar and spelling in rural Georgia in the early and
mid-1970s).


T�SERG�RVFINVS
esse quam videri

http://raphael.doxos.com

IH+SV

On 17 Jul 2006, at 1321, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

> A. Apollonius Q. Maximo sal.
>
> Ap. Claudius Cicero scripsit:
>
>> Did Nova Roma find his enemy? <
>
> Scripsisti Maxime:
>
>> It is "their" enemy <
>
> Maxime, if one is going to correct another's English it is best to
> make sure one is not mistaken oneself. "Nova Roma" is singular,
> therefore the correct pronoun cannot be "their", which is plural.
> The correct prounoun is "its", or perhaps (since Nova Roma is
> feminine in Latin) "her". :)
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44685 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius Q. Maximo sal.
>
> Ap. Claudius Cicero scripsit:
>
> > Did Nova Roma find his enemy? <
>
> Scripsisti Maxime:
>
> > It is "their" enemy <
>
> Maxime, if one is going to correct another's English it is best to
make sure one is not mistaken oneself. "Nova Roma" is singular,
therefore the correct pronoun cannot be "their", which is plural. The
correct prounoun is "its", or perhaps (since Nova Roma is feminine in
Latin) "her". :)
>


Mehercule, Corde amice, the world is topsy-turvy! Google for "the
government have decided" and you find news sources from the UK. Google
again for "the government has decided" and you find news sources from
the US. Nouns like "government", "team", "company" are generally taken
as plural in UK English and as singular in US English. The Senator,
writing from California, took the UK position and you, writing from
the UK, corrected him as someone from the US might. Now I must go
rest, as the world just became a bit more confusing...

optime vale!

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44686 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Hortensia Maior Agricolae Cordoque sal;
oh to 'google' for grammar, the shame;-
I was taught concerning the plurality of collective nouns, by a proper
English teacher in grammar class; when the collective agrees it is
singular, but when they disagree it is plural.

eg: The Nova Roman Senate disagree over what to do with the toad
Priscus...
The Senate agrees he's a bore!

vale
M. Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44687 From: zoe king Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: Shakespear's Romans
Brutus, Well put. Personaly, I'm no fan of Cicero. I find him big headed, and and concieted. His work is largely overpraised , I think. As Catalinius, and his alleged conspirracy, I get the feeling that Ciccero sort of blundered apon the scene, and only used him, to secure his place in roman minds as an elder statesman, then constantly crows about it. Any optimate who didnt believe that Cicero was the greatest orator simply had to ask cicero himsself. He would have said so himself. I find his constant self priase tiring, in the extreme. By the time Milo's trial came along, cicero had already talked himself into the ground, several times over. He shilled for the anticeasarean faction because they paid him. I really think that the only time he was'nt completely self serving, was, as you say, in his Phillipics, against Antonius. But then again, he was deeply in debt, and Antonius, as magiser equis under ceasar, had sternly comeout that there would be no debt cancelation.
'Noble' Antony even led elements of the tenth legion, into the forum, where a huge pro-cancelation mob had been roosted for months.

Vale

Zoe


Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote:
Salve!

The history of the Late Republic is so complex and factional that one man's hero will inevitably be another man's villain. Antonius, like anyone else, had both good and bad qualities and occasional spectacular lapses of judgment. I'm not actually convinced that Shakespear does present him as being particular heroic. In the play he vacilates and reaches a fairly shoddy accomodation with Caesar's murderers before then turning on Marcus Brutus in the funeral oration. Of course different productions portray him in different ways but the famous film version starring Marlon Brando makes him seem rather tricksy and less than completely noble.

Finally, as regards Cicero, the real Antonius had deep and understandable personal reasons for detesting the man. Cicero was directly responsible for the murder of P.Cornelius Lentulus Sura who was Antonius' stepfather as well as a number of other Catilinarians some of whom had close links with Caesar and Antonius. Even if Cicero was not (?) directly involved in the later assassination of Clodius, another leading populist politician with whom Antonius had very close links (Antonius later married Fulvia, Clodius' widow), he still defended Milo the Optimate gangleader accused of the crime at his trial and supported the latter's candidacy for Consul. He had also (eventually) thrown in his lot with Caesar's assassins and launched a blistering attack on Antonius himself in his Philippic Orations.

Vengeance may not be pretty but Antonius had his reasons and as I said one man's hero may be another's villain.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

zoe king <ultramegazoe@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me why shakespear portrays Marcus Antonius as noble and heroic?? In my reading, he's a huge pig, whom Ceasar constanly has to work to restrain. He ordered the death of cicero for one example.

".

__________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44688 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Soon, Ludi Victoriae !
SALVETE QUIRITES !

There are only a few days until Ludi Victoriae will start. You still
have time for subscriptions.

For informations chech the following links :

1.Ludi Victoriae Program :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi.htm

2.Ludi Victoriae Rules :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

3.Ludi Victoriae Subscriptions :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/participatelv.htm

Quirites, visit the Curule Aediles website :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44689 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
SALVETE !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
> That's because we lovers of things Roman, in the US started this
thing. The Italians for some reason did not.>>>

That's correct. I want to add that In US are more dedicated citizens
to Religio Romana than in Europe.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44690 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
M. Hortensia Iulio Sabino spd;
the reason being the U.S has separation of church &
state. When religion isn't forced down your gullet as it is in Europe
(except in France)in school or with an established church you get more
of an interest & variety.

On the other hand some of our most erudite cives are in Europe & it's
thanks to them that we have Academia Thules and the yearly Conventus.
I'd love to know what's happening in busy Provincia Brasilia. It's all
Nova Roma.
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> SALVETE !
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@ wrote:
> > That's because we lovers of things Roman, in the US started this
> thing. The Italians for some reason did not.>>>
>
> That's correct. I want to add that In US are more dedicated citizens
> to Religio Romana than in Europe.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44691 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-17
Subject: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
You'alls = singular subjective
Ya'll = singular masculine, feminine, neuter
All Ya'll = plural m, f, n
All Ya'll's = plural possessive m, f, n
All Ya'll Ladies = plural feminine
All Ya'll Damnyankees = plural accusative
He/she needed killin' = a viable legal defense for murder in the southern
U.S.A.

And that is the Nova Roman lesson for speaking in America Austrorientalis.

F. Galerius Aurelianus,
Prop AAe





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44692 From: Quintus Iulius Probus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Dextrarum iunctio
Salve Sabine

I want to thank you and Arria Carina for your words, support and most of all for being there for us. It felt very good. I'm also glad about the participation of Iulia Cytheris Aege and Fabius Carnifex.

Optime Vale


Titus Iulius Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
SALVETE !

The most important person from a roman wedding was the bride. In
that day, she rennounce at tunica praetexta and, she wear tunica
recta. Then, using a special comb, hasta caelibaris, she will do a
special hairdo, six tress first, and from them, a loop of hair. To
it she put a orange veil, flammeum, and a palla will cover her
shoulders. On the top of her head, a nice flowers coronet will be
knitted.
After the augural sacrifice, the tabulae nuptiales is signed. Ten
witness are present for that momment, and then, a old woman, married
once, univira, will unify the right hands of bride and groom. This
is dextrarum iunctio, the roman wedding solemn momment.

In these modern days the events are different. But the feelings are
the same for two from our citizens, Iulius Probus and Iulia Severa.
Today, sponsalia and tommorow, cena nuptialis. I want to wish them a
happy wedding.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS.






Virtus atque Honor

Quintus Iulius Probus
Legatus Militum Provincia Dacia

---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44693 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
Salvete,

I apologize for being off topic on an already off topic thread, but
here's statement that I feel needs to be corrected:

> the reason being the U.S has separation of church &
> state. When religion isn't forced down your gullet as it is in Europe
> (except in France)in school or with an established church you get more
> of an interest & variety.

Laws in European countries are quite diverse on many topics including
this one. For one, France is not the only exception here, Germany is
another (and I'm quite sure there are more), although I do agree that
the French system is much more advanced in this regard (in Germany we do
have religious education in schools but it is not mandatory). But even
those countries that do not have separation of church and state, as for
example the Scandinavian countries, still have constitutions that grant
religious freedom (among other rights). (Christian) religion is not
necessarily "forced down your throat". The situation is not perfect and
lot remains to be done to improve it, but it is by no means as simple as
you made it sound.

--
Valete,
T. Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44694 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
We'uns is thankin' y'all fer thet.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> You'alls = singular subjective
> Ya'll = singular masculine, feminine, neuter
> All Ya'll = plural m, f, n
> All Ya'll's = plural possessive m, f, n
> All Ya'll Ladies = plural feminine
> All Ya'll Damnyankees = plural accusative
> He/she needed killin' = a viable legal defense for murder in the
southern
> U.S.A.
>
> And that is the Nova Roman lesson for speaking in America
Austrorientalis.
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus,
> Prop AAe
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44695 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Grammar, grammar everywhere
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Hortensia Maior Agricolae Cordoque sal;
> oh to 'google' for grammar, the shame;-


Agricola Maiori sal,

Have you never heard of "corpus linguistics"? I think it means
flogging students with grammar rules until they are dead. But I may be
wrong.

Google often serves as a nice, informal corpus of English.

Optime vale!


> I was taught concerning the plurality of collective nouns, by a proper
> English teacher in grammar class; when the collective agrees it is
> singular, but when they disagree it is plural.
>
> eg: The Nova Roman Senate disagree over what to do with the toad
> Priscus...
> The Senate agrees he's a bore!
>
> vale
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44696 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Ludi Victoriae - Call for Munera Gladiatoria.
SALVETE NOVI ROMANI!

You still have time for subscriptions !

Munera Gladiatoria rules are at that address :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

To participate, complete the next application form :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/ludi_form_gladiatoria.php

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44697 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Language lessons for America Austrorientalis
No problem. Ya'll et yet? c'mon up, set a spell, hav some sweet tea.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44698 From: Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Ludi Victoriae
Salvete omnes!

Often, our ancestors, in order to celebrate the victories of the
legions and their commanders, under the inspiring force of the
Muses, sought to catch the glimpse of those events in literary
works. What we are trying to do today is to remember and celebrate,
to revive and meditate upon the honorable deeds of the ancient
Romans. And we can do more. We have the possibility to attain a
double perspective of things past and of things that will survive
time and humanity's unfolding, things that for us Nova Romans will
always represent the possibility of development.


The ludi celebrate not only the success of one commander or of one
legion. It is a moment when one ought to think of what Rome stands
for, of the essence of the entire Roman long line of victories, on
the battle fields and not only.

The subject of the Cultural Award should deal with the tumult of the
seeker of glory and success, with the physical and mental egresses
that Romans had to take on their path to victory. The clamor and the
excitement, alongside cold blood and good tempers at the same time,
could be expressed in the form of a dramatic dialogue, not more than
1000 words.

It seems difficult to find a delimitation of the subject, it is not
easy to put in a discourse the grandeur or the dignity of the Roman
figures. This certainly leaves place for the self of each artist. In
other times in Rome maybe some of you were poets, and others
courageous legionaries; if the Muses are favoring you, now it is the
moment to let fugitive memories remind us all about the ancient
times, so that we will become even more aware of what we are today
and of what we stand for.

Send your works, until July 19th, only to this e-mail :
iulia.cytheris.aege@... with the subject : Cultural Award.

Valete,

Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44699 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/17/2006 4:04:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> claudio.guzzo@... writes:
>
> In Nova... Roma, of course, there are modern women and men that pretend to
> be the judge of Roma and to build their modern Roma; a lot of them live in
> USA, a modern state,
> If you live in Italy, you live in a modern state as well.
>
> a country that belongs to redskins,
>
> We call them native Americans.

"Native Americans" are American citizens born in the United States of
American citizen parents. The various self-governing tribal groups are
"Indigsenous Nations", unless you know the actual name (Sioux, Cherokee,
Navaho, etc.) of the nation concerned. Unfortunately the Indigenous
Nations didn't have a collective name for themselves.

> but USA calls them natives and makes them live in some kind of zoo.
>
> A reservation is not a zoo. And with today's tribal gambling laws, the
> natives are doing quite well, monetary wise.

The "reservations" are not exactly holding pens, but, in principal, parts
of the Indigenous Nations' original territory, which was "reserved" to
them under some peace treaty or other.

> USA is the modern empire and rules this Nova... Roma, in fact Italy and Roma
> are just a Provincia!

The United States doesn't -- except during wartime, never did -- possess
or claim the command authority over its allied or associated states which
is the essence of an Empire. Ask the Eastern Europeans if you don't
understand the difference.

> That's because we lovers of things Roman, in the US started this thing. The
> Italians for some reason did not.
>
> In USA women and men can vote, people over 18 years can vote (but only
> few sdo vote). Yes, isn't that a paradox?
>
> everyone can be elected the president of USA and decide to use some atomic
> bomb again, but everybody is money's slave and must work for someone else.
>
> No, you have to born a US citizen to be president. Come now, even in Rome,
> unless your family was landed aristocracy, you worked for someone, even if he
> was your "patron."
>
> Modern life... in USA and provinciae.
> Sometimes wasps, but all other people too, must find a public enemy, some
> common danger, the evil. It often is a man with black skin, 25 years old, from
> an ugly family and living in a bad area; they often kill him.
>
> that is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP). And no, you are thinking of
> the post war of the rebellion's Reconstruction in 1866.

Which unfortunately hung on until 1966 in many places.

> Did Nova Roma find his enemy?
>
> Here it is, the Priscus case; maybe he is racist and sexist, so he had a
> nota and cannot write to other nova romans in his Provincia,
>
> Of course he can write his fellow NR civies in the provinces. A Nota does
> not prevent that.
>
> cannot vote, cannot make see his picture. But he is still alive and we,
> citizens of the modern empire, are worried.
>
> Not everyone is worried. When the Senate first heard of his antics, they
> were made to sound worse than they really were. No one's fault, and after
> investigation it was discovered that he really did nothing wrong.
>
> Vale.
> Appius Claudius Cicero
>
> Well Claudius I have to say, you sure know nothing about the US, or Nova
> Roma. So what exactly was the purpose of your pretty speech, except to
> complain about Nova Roma's lack of Italian centric status?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

- - - - -

Some annotations by Publius Livius Triarius

Vale!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44700 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
Salvete omnes,

I have seen other non Roman related sites talk about the importance
of grammar when posting comments. To me, the ML is more of an
informal discussion group that is really trying to express verbal
communication as you would see in the ancient or modern markets so I
do not really feel the need that we should be very fussy about it
here.

In general Nova Romans have their heads on their shoulders and are
at least in high school, post secondary or
post graduate levels of education. Roman culture along with all her
technicalities that one has to learn, is not something that attracts
uninformed or illiterate people so even if some citizens make errors
in grammar with this forum off and on, it is no reflection of their
abilities or talents and we should give them the benefit of the
doubt.

It has been said by a few famous writers that there is no such thing
as great writing. There is only great re-writing. When doing formal
papers one has to jot down every thought and idea. He then puts this
into some form of outline in order to construct his ideas then he
elabortes at length on each step in the outline. Because he he
concentrating so hard on his particular model and ideas the basics
of spelling and grammar seem to go to the back burner within the
mind so intially on the draft there are scattered errors with the
spelling and grammar that were overlooked. Why? I do not know since
I am not into psychology but this is why we always get some other
people to proof read our term papers, thesis, important business or
legal documents before passing them on for grading or consideration.

Most of us glance at articles of interest in this particular ML and
more often than not, we only have a few moments to quickly respond
and get our views across, especially on various fast moving heated
issues. Under these circumstances there is little room for good re-
writing or presenting a text equal to a proof read document.


Regards,

QSP









--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Hortensia Maior Agricolae Cordoque sal;
> > oh to 'google' for grammar, the shame;-
>
>
> Agricola Maiori sal,
>
> Have you never heard of "corpus linguistics"? I think it means
> flogging students with grammar rules until they are dead. But I
may be
> wrong.
>
> Google often serves as a nice, informal corpus of English.
>
> Optime vale!
>
>
> > I was taught concerning the plurality of collective nouns, by a
proper
> > English teacher in grammar class; when the collective agrees it
is
> > singular, but when they disagree it is plural.
> >
> > eg: The Nova Roman Senate disagree over what to do with the toad
> > Priscus...
> > The Senate agrees he's a bore!
> >
> > vale
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44701 From: Daniel Yates Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Roman Funerary Practices in the British Province
Salve to all

I have recently signed up as a new citizen and would be thankful if
anyone could point me in the right direction to learn of Roman
funerary practices, and more importantly any variations in these as
found in the British Province...

Many thanks and Vale!

Titus Ovidius Trigeminus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44702 From: appiusclaudiuspriscus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Notice: mail inoperative
From Appius Claudius Priscus
Notice: the email-sending capability of citizen Appius Claudius Priscus, assiduus, on the novaroma.org site has been suspended.

***************************************************************

Moderators Note: Appius Claudius Priscus sent over 250 email using this method in just about an hour. He is under a Censorial Nota and his rights are restricted until it is liffted.

The lists of Nova Roma, including ANY and ALL communication fora of the website are under the jurisdiction of the Praetors. His use of these will remain limited until the Nota is removed.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44703 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
Hortensia Calve spd;
apologies Calve, I lived in Hibernia for 6 years and was
very surprised at there being state Roman Catholic schools, state
Protestant schools, in the country that's your choice! Religion
class is optional but that means you are the 'odd' man out. That and
the abundance of statues of the Virgin Mary & Jesus everywhere in
the public square does make the non-Christian feel alone.
I am a religious majority, Jewish, & it felt amazingly
oppressive. Also I do know that in Germany you are taxed to 10% of
your income to support your designated offical religious
institution! That surprised me as well. Though I know you can opt
out as an atheist...
People are always surprised how religious the U.S. is &
indeed I found Europe more in-your-face that way with official
relgion, even the pagans aren't officially recognized. But as I say
that may be due to my unusual vantage point.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Salvete,
>
> I apologize for being off topic on an already off topic thread,
but
> here's statement that I feel needs to be corrected:
>
> > the reason being the U.S has separation of church
&
> > state. When religion isn't forced down your gullet as it is in
Europe
> > (except in France)in school or with an established church you
get more
> > of an interest & variety.
>
> Laws in European countries are quite diverse on many topics
including
> this one. For one, France is not the only exception here, Germany
is
> another (and I'm quite sure there are more), although I do agree
that
> the French system is much more advanced in this regard (in Germany
we do
> have religious education in schools but it is not mandatory). But
even
> those countries that do not have separation of church and state,
as for
> example the Scandinavian countries, still have constitutions that
grant
> religious freedom (among other rights). (Christian) religion is
not
> necessarily "forced down your throat". The situation is not
perfect and
> lot remains to be done to improve it, but it is by no means as
simple as
> you made it sound.
>
> --
> Valete,
> T. Flavius Calvus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44704 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Notice: mail inoperative
Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
I wish to thank the Quirites for holding back and
ignoring this person Priscus, now he wishes to get sympathy. Please
continue to ignore him & he will slink away....
Marca Hortensia Maior


>
> From Appius Claudius Priscus
> Notice: the email-sending capability of citizen Appius Claudius
Priscus, assiduus, on the novaroma.org site has been suspended.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> Moderators Note: Appius Claudius Priscus sent over 250 email using
this method in just about an hour. He is under a Censorial Nota and
his rights are restricted until it is liffted.
>
> The lists of Nova Roma, including ANY and ALL communication fora
of the website are under the jurisdiction of the Praetors. His use
of these will remain limited until the Nota is removed.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44705 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
Salve

Maior schrieb:

> I am a religious majority, Jewish, & it felt amazingly
> oppressive.

Being a member of religious minority (heathen), I know how it can feel.
But these things are part of local traditions, not "official" in most cases.

> Also I do know that in Germany you are taxed to 10% of
> your income to support your designated offical religious
> institution!

Only if you are a member of one of those institutions (and it's 8-9%).

> That surprised me as well. Though I know you can opt
> out as an atheist...

No, if you're an atheist or adherent of a different religion (that has
no such tax status), you don't have to opt out, you're not included. You
can, however, opt out as a Christian etc., by leaving the church that
taxes you.

> I found Europe more in-your-face that way with official
> relgion, even the pagans aren't officially recognized.

Again, that's too general a statement. Some countries, like France or
Germany, do not have an official religion. Some countries do, but have
also recognized paganism. This is true e.g. for Denmark, Norway,
Iceland. In Germany, pagan religions cannot be officially recognized,
and neither can Christianity or Islam, because there is no such
recognition of religions here.


--
Vale,
T. Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44706 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe (was: the Priscus case)
In Germany, if you register as an Atheist to avoid the God Tax, can you be
arrested for going to church?

--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44707 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
Salvete Cives,

Mr. Keller continues to send unsolicited mail to citizens. Last
friday, he mailed two hundred sixty eight of us; now, he is
continuing to broadcast his rants against the administration of
Nova Roma, apparently to whatever email addresses he has managed
to harvest.

These rants contain factually inaccurate statements intended
to harm Nova Roma.

If you receive anything from this person, please forward the
messages to the Censores so that they might be entered as evidence.

Valete,
M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44708 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
---Pompeia Maximo Sal.

You wrote (from below)

Not everyone is worried. When the Senate first heard of his
antics, they
> were made to sound worse than they really were. No one's fault,
and after
> investigation it was discovered that he really did nothing wrong

Pompeia: This must be a statement of extraordinary perception
Maxime, because there is no record of a Senate vote on the
situation...only conversation...hardly representative of a formal
majority decision..

Perhaps you innocently sympathize with this particular
circumstance...it is nonetheless a loose assumption to view 'the
Senate' as being in agreement with you.

One must be careful Senator, to allow the Tribunes to do the
reporting of Senate dealings. It is their lawful role and I believe
they are capable of the greatest measure of objectivity.

Vale
Pompeia


>
>
> Vale.






In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/17/2006 4:04:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> claudio.guzzo@... writes:
>
> In Nova... Roma, of course, there are modern women and men that
pretend to
> be the judge of Roma and to build their modern Roma; a lot of
them live in
> USA, a modern state,
> If you live in Italy, you live in a modern state as well.
>
>
> a country that belongs to redskins,
>
> We call them native Americans.
>
>
> but USA calls them natives and makes them live in some kind of
zoo.
>
>
> A reservation is not a zoo. And with today's tribal gambling
laws, the
> natives are doing quite well, monetary wise.
>
>
> USA is the modern empire and rules this Nova... Roma, in fact
Italy and Roma
> are just a Provincia!
>
> That's because we lovers of things Roman, in the US started this
thing. The
> Italians for some reason did not.
>
>
> In USA women and men can vote, people over 18 years can vote (but
only few
> people vote),
> Yes, isn't that a paradox?
>
>
> everyone can be elected the president of USA and decide to use
some atomic
> bomb again, but everybody is money's slave and must work for
someone else.
>
>
> No, you have to born a US citizen to be president. Come now, even
in Rome,
> unless your family was landed aristocracy, you worked for someone,
even if he
> was your "patron."
>
>
> Modern life... in USA and provinciae.
> Sometimes wasps, but all other people too, must find a public
enemy, some
> common danger, the evil. It often is a man with black skin, 25
years old, from
> an ugly family and living in a bad area; they often kill him.
>
> that is White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (WASP). And no, you are
thinking of
> the post war of the rebellion's Reconstruction in 1866.
>
>
> Did Nova Roma find his enemy?
>
> It is "their" enemy
>
>
> Here it is, the Priscus case; maybe he is racist and sexist, so
he had a
> nota and cannot write to other nova romans in his Provincia,
>
> Of course he can write his fellow NR civies in the provinces. A
Nota does
> not prevent
> that.
>
>
> cannot vote, cannot make see his picture. But he is still alive
and we,
> citizens of the modern empire, are worried.
>
> Not everyone is worried. When the Senate first heard of his
antics, they
> were made to sound worse than they really were. No one's fault,
and after
> investigation it was discovered that he really did nothing wrong.
>
>
> Vale.
> Appius Claudius Cicero
>
>
> Well Claudius I have to say, you sure know nothing about the US,
or Nova
> Roma.
> So what exactly was the purpose of your pretty speech, except to
complain
> about
> Nova Roma's lack of Italian centric status?
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44709 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: Hubby's Departure
---
Ave Domina Carissa:

You are in my thoughts and prayers, and I'm confident in the
thoughts, offerings and prayers of many other citizens. I can't
begin to imagine how difficult this is for you and Dennis....and
your families.

And no, you are not alone...NR is just 10 fingers and a keyboard
away :)

And remember also amica that 'Rome is where the heart is' :>)

Fides
Po



And I too, hope that we can have a world without suffering and
abuse.

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, <cant97@...> wrote:
>
> My Dear Friends,
>
> I'd like to thank you all for your support and prayers. Having my
husband
> leave was a very difficult thing, but as a Warrior-type Pagan I
realize why
> he had to go. I've seen pictures of the aftermath those terrorists
leave
> behind, and I want them dead...gone...end of story. As much as I
miss
> Dennis, I am very proud that he is supporting the war against
terrorism. I
> pray for peace. I pray for a world where people don't exist who
would wire a
> building full of school children to explode over a political
cause. The sad
> fact is, however, I wake every morning to a world that is very much
> imperfect. Sometimes, we have to fight. War is ugly, and I hate
it. No
> matter how you go about it, innocent lives are lost. These
terrorists
> purposely target innocents, however. In my opinion they have
crossed a line
> that you just do not cross without being punished harshly. May the
Gods save
> all of us...American, European, Arab..all of us...from this menace.
>
> Dennis emailed me to let me know that he arrived safely at Fort
Dix. His
> pre-deployment training will be pretty intense, but he'll be able
to stay in
> touch with us. He has asked for funny jokes, car, motorcycle and
techie
> magazines and oatmeal raisin cookies. Most of all I think he needs
prayers.
> He hates being away from his family. He's torn between his duty to
us and
> his duty to our country. Because I do not have biological family
to turn to,
> he's so worried about me. I tried to assure him, but those of you
who know
> him know how protective he is. I think that's one of his finest
qualities.
>
> I love you guys one and all, and Dennis and I am deeply grateful
for your
> support. Thanks to you, he doesn't have to worry about me and
Mason as much
> as he normally would. Thanks to you, my loneliness is manageable.
Please
> continue to pray and light candles for us, and keep company with
me and
> Mason. My family is getting through this because of you. You are
all
> wonderful people.
>
> In love and light,
>
> Louise
> aka Lady Carissa Stormbringer
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44710 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.

> Mehercule, Corde amice, the world is topsy-turvy! Google for "the
government have decided" and you find news sources from the UK. Google
again for "the government has decided" and you find news sources from
the US. Nouns like "government" , "team", "company" are generally taken
as plural in UK English and as singular in US English. The Senator,
writing from California, took the UK position and you, writing from
the UK, corrected him as someone from the US might. Now I must go
rest, as the world just became a bit more confusing... <

It's true that a lot of people in Britain use the plural in cases like that, but it's by no means universal and I personally regard it as undesirable (especially with regard to the government, since the principle of collective responsibility actually makes the singular nature of the government not only a grammatical but a constitutional principle in the U.K.!). I'm not sure that I would agree that those nouns you mention are "generally taken as plural". Certainly no one in Britain would ever say that "the government has decided" is incorrect or even odd, whereas there are people who would say that "the government have decided" is odd or even incorrect. In any case, even those Britons who say "the government have decided" do not say "Britain have decided". I've never in my life heard the plural applied to a country.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44711 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-18
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
---Pompeia Minucia Strabo Marco Octavio Germanico S.P.D.

I'm afraid an inspection of the 'web features' section of the
management tools of this list will confirm that citizen Priscus
continues to be a rather busy boy with his letter writing.

His ability to communicate has perhaps been limited on other lists
and sites in NR, but certainly not this one, as the Praetor implied
earlier today. His message posts to this list are moderated sure,
but as long as he is subscribed to this list he may post ad lib
privately. I guess he doesn't realize there is a record of it? Or he
is bored? Or on a mission of sorts?

Yes, page after page of posts sent to subscribers
privately....something about communication privileges being
limited..atleast that's what the titles of these posts imply.

He does post quasi frequently from this list's website in any
case ...usually when his name is mentioned on this list. He has for
some time....but not *usually* by the page full... With respect
Censor, his communication is about as curtailed as a child
being 'grounded' in a room with all the modern talktoys....cell
phone, instant message, snacks.

It is an injustice that the Senate and People of NR don't have more
of a say in the management of this very interesting
situation..."Hardball" has been traded in by a few for a game of
Snakes and Ladders.

Pride and politics.......

'They would have it so, Octavi' ....for the timebeing



Valete









In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete Cives,
>
> Mr. Keller continues to send unsolicited mail to citizens. Last
> friday, he mailed two hundred sixty eight of us; now, he is
> continuing to broadcast his rants against the administration of
> Nova Roma, apparently to whatever email addresses he has managed
> to harvest.
>
> These rants contain factually inaccurate statements intended
> to harm Nova Roma.
>
> If you receive anything from this person, please forward the
> messages to the Censores so that they might be entered as evidence.
>
> Valete,
> M. Octavius Germanicus, Censor.
>
>
> --
> hucke@...
> http://www.graveyards.com
>
> "What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
> clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
> over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44712 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kell Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Hubby's Departure
>
> ---
> Salve Domina Carissa:
>
> Your husband is certainly in our prayers and thoughts. Hopefully a
much better world shall come out of this situation in the end and
may he be guided safetly through his journey in America and
overseas. Please keep us informed of his situations abroad and never
forget there are always ears here in NR to listen.

All the best!

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
>
> > >
> > My Dear Friends,
> >
> > I'd like to thank you all for your support and prayers. Having
my
> husband
> > leave was a very difficult thing, but as a Warrior-type Pagan I
> realize why
> > he had to go. I've seen pictures of the aftermath those
terrorists
> leave
> > behind, and I want them dead...gone...end of story. As much as I
> miss
> > Dennis, I am very proud that he is supporting the war against
> terrorism. I
> > pray for peace. I pray for a world where people don't exist who
> would wire a
> > building full of school children to explode over a political
> cause. The sad
> > fact is, however, I wake every morning to a world that is very
much
> > imperfect. Sometimes, we have to fight. War is ugly, and I hate
> it. No
> > matter how you go about it, innocent lives are lost. These
> terrorists
> > purposely target innocents, however. In my opinion they have
> crossed a line
> > that you just do not cross without being punished harshly. May
the
> Gods save
> > all of us...American, European, Arab..all of us...from this
menace.
> >
> > Dennis emailed me to let me know that he arrived safely at Fort
> Dix. His
> > pre-deployment training will be pretty intense, but he'll be
able
> to stay in
> > touch with us. He has asked for funny jokes, car, motorcycle and
> techie
> > magazines and oatmeal raisin cookies. Most of all I think he
needs
> prayers.
> > He hates being away from his family. He's torn between his duty
to
> us and
> > his duty to our country. Because I do not have biological family
> to turn to,
> > he's so worried about me. I tried to assure him, but those of
you
> who know
> > him know how protective he is. I think that's one of his finest
> qualities.
> >
> > I love you guys one and all, and Dennis and I am deeply grateful
> for your
> > support. Thanks to you, he doesn't have to worry about me and
> Mason as much
> > as he normally would. Thanks to you, my loneliness is
manageable.
> Please
> > continue to pray and light candles for us, and keep company with
> me and
> > Mason. My family is getting through this because of you. You are
> all
> > wonderful people.
> >
> > In love and light,
> >
> > Louise
> > aka Lady Carissa Stormbringer
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44713 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
M. Hortensia A. Apollonio sal;
Corde, if I recollect correctly you may see this turn up in
Corporation Law, where the Board of Directors 'has agreed' or
they 'are in disagreement'. I believe from my childhood and then my
later law class that this is the proper usage.
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

I'm not sure that I would agree that those nouns you mention
are "generally taken as plural". Certainly no one in Britain would
ever say that "the government has decided" is incorrect or even odd,
whereas there are people who would say that "the government have
decided" is odd or even incorrect. In any case, even those Britons who
say "the government have decided" do not say "Britain have decided".
I've never in my life heard the plural applied to a country.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44714 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
In a message dated 7/18/2006 6:16:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
pompeia_minucia_tiberia@... writes:

Perhaps you innocently sympathize with this particular
circumstance.circumstance.<WBR>..it is nonetheless a loose assumption
Senate' as being in agreement with you.


Consul, to put your mind at ease, please at your pleasure, poll the Senate
and see what they think about Priscus offense.

My comment had to do what was reported to the Senate, and what we Senators
later found out. In no way did the Senate vote to do anything, and I never
said that, they left it up to private individuals, who happened to be Senators,
to pursue it in the courts. The case was accepted then dropped. Each
citizen is free to draw his or her conclusion from this information. As for
divulging state secrets I mentioned no names, other then my own...

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44715 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Roman Clock Widget for Mac OSX
Salve,

If you have a Mac with OSX 10.4 you can get a Roman Clock(using Roman
Numerals) at Haubergs.com for your Dashboard. The site even mentions
(with a link to us)Nova Roma. Here is the link to it if you are
interested:

http://www.haubergs.com/widgets.php

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus (The First Priscus)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44716 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Mail Delays?
Salve,
I hope that I am not being mistaken for Appius Claudius Priscus or
something. I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
not shown up. If their is a block on the name Priscus could someone
make sure it blocks the RIGHT Priscus, please. I will start using my
"servilius.com" address from now on and not
my "servilius-priscus.us" address anymore.

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44717 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
Salve,

P. Dominus Antonius schrieb:

> In Germany, if you register as an Atheist to avoid the God Tax,

You don't actually register as an atheist. You can, however, join or
leave the church or another religious organization, as you choose.

> can you be
> arrested for going to church?

What an odd notion. :) No, I don't think so, unless you try to steal the
altar or attack the priest... ;-) Seriously, churches are private
property. Of course, the proprietor has the right to choose whom they
let inside. They cannot arrest anybody, but like everybody else, they
can call the police to have someone removed from their grounds who
refuses to leave. But unless you're actually disturbing the peace, I
can't imagine why they would want to throw you out. Wouldn't seem a very
Christian thing to do, would it? I've been to a Christian wedding as a
guest once - I may have got some odd looks for not singing along with
the psalms, but I wasn't struck by lightning and the pastor did not push
any garlic into my face... *g*

On a side note... As Nova Romans, perhaps we shouldn't be all that
opposed to the notion of a state religion. I mean, the Religio *is* the
official religion in NR, but we're still allowed to worship our own gods
in private. That's not so much different from the way these matters are
handled in many European macronations today.


--
Vale,
T. Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44718 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum/Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: the
Salve,
I know a few Scots that might agree the plural should
be applied to the country. ;-) Course, I know a few
southerners who insist on their being a forgotten
constitutional point to the plural "the United States
are of the opinion" or "the United States have"... ;-)

Vale,

--- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

> A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.
>
> > Mehercule, Corde amice, the world is topsy-turvy!
> Google for "the
> government have decided" and you find news sources
> from the UK. Google
> again for "the government has decided" and you find
> news sources from
> the US. Nouns like "government" , "team", "company"
> are generally taken
> as plural in UK English and as singular in US
> English. The Senator,
> writing from California, took the UK position and
> you, writing from
> the UK, corrected him as someone from the US might.
> Now I must go
> rest, as the world just became a bit more
> confusing... <
>
> It's true that a lot of people in Britain use the
> plural in cases like that, but it's by no means
> universal and I personally regard it as undesirable
> (especially with regard to the government, since the
> principle of collective responsibility actually
> makes the singular nature of the government not only
> a grammatical but a constitutional principle in the
> U.K.!). I'm not sure that I would agree that those
> nouns you mention are "generally taken as plural".
> Certainly no one in Britain would ever say that "the
> government has decided" is incorrect or even odd,
> whereas there are people who would say that "the
> government have decided" is odd or even incorrect.
> In any case, even those Britons who say "the
> government have decided" do not say "Britain have
> decided". I've never in my life heard the plural
> applied to a country.
>


A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Hodie bonum est esse Romanum.

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44719 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Only a few hours to Ludi Victoriae.
SALVETE !

Only a few hours remains for subscriptions. To the Aediles website
all the necessaries informations are posted. Visit the site :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/

The Ludi Victoriae program is presented to this address :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi.htm

The Ludi Victoriae rules are to this address :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ruleslv.htm

Munera Gladiatoria :
To take part, complete the application form :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/ludi_form_gladiatoria.php

For Ludi Victoriae Circenses visit the Factions pages :
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/albata.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/praesina.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/russata.htm
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/veneta.htm
On these pages some news was posted. For example Praesina is back in
line and Aurelia Falco Silvana announced me, that, Spandex is very
well trained and with great hopes.

Don't forget about the Cultural Award. Visit the "participate"
section and send to Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege your work.
http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/participatelv.htm

To the Cultural Day of Ludi Victoriae, we are honoured to present
you interesting works of our citizens. It was a voluntary job from
their part. Thanks for that.

Ludi Victoriae are not only simple games in this year. You will see
tommorow why.

I wish you all, good time to LUDI !

OPTIME VALE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44720 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
---Pompeia Minucia Strabo Quinto Suetonio Paulino S.P.D.

I certainly enjoyed reading your post.

. < <(extra period inserted here on purpose just to be mildly
annoying) :>)

For sure, this forum is not a literary contest or a spelling B.

Although good writing skills are appreciable, lack of same is no
reason for people to feel so intimidated they don't post.

Often people are writing and their time is cut short, and they don't
proof as carefully as they would otherwise. Also, some are more
mechanically skilled at the keyboard than others. And for those who
do know how to type, well, perhaps their fingers or hands don't
function as well as they should..or used to. Perhaps some are visually
impaired. We don't know the situations of others sometimes.


Our constitution guarantees freedoms to post, as long as messages
aren't illegal or hateful, etc...it says nothing about producing a
prose of meticulous grammar and elitist writing style.

I have a relative who is a mathematical wizard...but spell?
Nahh...but he is considered for all intents and purposes to be an
extremely intelligent individual, when one reads 'what' he is saying,
as opposed to merely surveying the mechanics of his expression. Seeing
the inside of his wallet is another clue that he is quite well
grounded 'upstairs' :>)...just not in the spelling department.

We need to give eachother a break IMO. Is the aim to made people feel
welcome, or to chase them away over the wrong pronoun? Do we want to
help people learn our NR, Rome, etc., or merely proclaim how much some
of us know that they don't?

vale



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I have seen other non Roman related sites talk about the importance
> of grammar when posting comments. To me, the ML is more of an
> informal discussion group that is really trying to express verbal
> communication as you would see in the ancient or modern markets so I
> do not really feel the need that we should be very fussy about it
> here.
>
> In general Nova Romans have their heads on their shoulders and are
> at least in high school, post secondary or
> post graduate levels of education. Roman culture along with all her
> technicalities that one has to learn, is not something that attracts
> uninformed or illiterate people so even if some citizens make errors
> in grammar with this forum off and on, it is no reflection of their
> abilities or talents and we should give them the benefit of the
> doubt.
>
> It has been said by a few famous writers that there is no such thing
> as great writing. There is only great re-writing. When doing formal
> papers one has to jot down every thought and idea. He then puts this
> into some form of outline in order to construct his ideas then he
> elabortes at length on each step in the outline. Because he he
> concentrating so hard on his particular model and ideas the basics
> of spelling and grammar seem to go to the back burner within the
> mind so intially on the draft there are scattered errors with the
> spelling and grammar that were overlooked. Why? I do not know since
> I am not into psychology but this is why we always get some other
> people to proof read our term papers, thesis, important business or
> legal documents before passing them on for grading or consideration.
>
> Most of us glance at articles of interest in this particular ML and
> more often than not, we only have a few moments to quickly respond
> and get our views across, especially on various fast moving heated
> issues. Under these circumstances there is little room for good re-
> writing or presenting a text equal to a proof read document.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hortensia Maior Agricolae Cordoque sal;
> > > oh to 'google' for grammar, the shame;-
> >
> >
> > Agricola Maiori sal,
> >
> > Have you never heard of "corpus linguistics"? I think it means
> > flogging students with grammar rules until they are dead. But I
> may be
> > wrong.
> >
> > Google often serves as a nice, informal corpus of English.
> >
> > Optime vale!
> >
> >
> > > I was taught concerning the plurality of collective nouns, by a
> proper
> > > English teacher in grammar class; when the collective agrees it
> is
> > > singular, but when they disagree it is plural.
> > >
> > > eg: The Nova Roman Senate disagree over what to do with the toad
> > > Priscus...
> > > The Senate agrees he's a bore!
> > >
> > > vale
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44721 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Grammar, grammar everywhere
A. Apollonius Pompejae Minuciae Q. Suetonio sal.

I quite agree with you both. The only reason I picked Q. Maximus up on his pronoun was, indeed, to demonstrate the dangers of correcting other people's grammar: namely, that if one makes a mistake of one's own one ends up looking a trifle silly. :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44722 From: Tim Peters Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
Salve Prisce,

Charlie Collins schrieb:

> I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
> not shown up.

If you mean the one about the Roman clock widget for Mac (nice gadget,
btw :) - anyone know something like that for Linux?), it arrived a few
minutes ago. Yahoo tends to have these delays, it's probably nothing to
do with any mix up or moderation thing.

--
Vale,
Titus Flavius Calvus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44723 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
A. Apollonius M. Hortensiae sal.

> Corde, if I recollect correctly you may see this turn up in
Corporation Law, where the Board of Directors 'has agreed' or
they 'are in disagreement' . I believe from my childhood and then my
later law class that this is the proper usage. <

That's certainly a valid view, and it makes a good deal of sense: when the members of the board have taken a collective decision then they are acting as one and it is perfectly proper to say that the board has agreed, but if the members are unable to agree then it makes better sense to use the plural because to say "the board is in disagreement" invites the question "with whom is the board in disagreement?" Nonetheless I tend to think that it is better to avoid having to use a plural verb with a singular noun at all, for exmaple by saying "the members of the board are in disagreement" or "there is no agreement within the board".

On questions like this I usually, if in doubt, have resort to an excellent little book called "Plain Words", originally by Sir Ernest Gowers and revised by Sir Bruce Fraser. It was originally written for internal circulation within the British civil service to help civil servants express themselves in as clear and as as unobjectionable a manner as possible when corresponding with members of the public. The book itself is written not only clearly but with a nice gentle humour. On this subject it says:

"There is no rule; either a singular or a plural verb may be used. The plural is more suitable when the emphasis is on the individual members, and the singular when it is on the body as a whole. 'A committee was appointed to consider this subject'; 'the committee were unable to agree'. Sometimes the need to use a pronoun settles the question We cannot say 'The committee leaves its hats in the hall', nor, without risk of misunderstanding, 'The committee were smaller when I sat on them'." (p. 126)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44724 From: P.Memmius Albucius Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum
P. Memmius Albucius Sempronio Lucretio Apollonio omn.que s.d.

Interesting debate !

I first suppose, Sempronie, that "southerners" apply to U.S. ones.
For many country may have their "northerners" and "southerners". ;-)

Then, I would like to know how you - U.K. and U.S. citizens - explain
this difference.

Last, if I may give you the example of French, the correct use is the
singular one, specially in law matters. Naturally, in current
conversation in daily life, people say : "The govt, 'they' have
decided this". But this way of speaking is still seen as a weakness
of language.
Even if one speaks of a decision of an important (in number)
assembly, one will tell : "the assembly/council/gvt etc. *has*/*is*"
etc.. The fact that the decision has been adopted by a short majority
is irrevelant. For the body is considered as one person. That is why
there is no culture of dissenting voices expression, in French law.

So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...
and Latin ?

Valete tres omnesque,

P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. Lugd. Galliae



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> I know a few Scots that might agree the plural should
> be applied to the country. ;-) Course, I know a few
> southerners who insist on their being a forgotten
> constitutional point to the plural "the United States
> are of the opinion" or "the United States have"... ;-)
>
> Vale,
>
> --- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.

(..)
> > Nouns like "government" , "team", "company"
> > are generally taken
> > as plural in UK English and as singular in US
> > English.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44725 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: a.d. XIV Kal. Sext.
OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas extilis; haec dies comitialis est.

In the 5th and early 4th centuries BC, migratory Germanic tribes
pressured Gallic Celts living in the Danube regions to push South in
search of new territory. They were likely familiar with the Po River
Valley, in north central Italy, from trade arrangements with Etruscans
who were there. The Gauls crossed the Alps en masse capturing and
settling Etruscan territory by force. The Gallic tribes were united
only by blood and origin and each maintained their own kings or
warlords. Some of these tribes settled into cattle and cereal farming
along with peaceful cohabitation, but others maintained aggressive
policies towards their new neighbors.

One such tribe, the Senones, was under the command of a Brennus, who
led his Celts to the Etruscan city of Clusium about 100 miles north of
Rome. It is important to note that much of the ancient source
material, such as Livy, Polybius and Diodorus Siculus, is steeped in
legend or, especially on the part of Livy, biased though nationalism.
Whether Clusium was the target, or it simply stood in the path on the
way to the more powerful city of Rome, is unclear. It is clear,
however, that the Celts did approach and lay siege to Clusium and that
the Etruscans there likely set aside any differences and called to
Rome for help.

In response, according to the ancients, the Romans sent a delegation
of 3 envoys to treat with Brennus. Siculus claims that the 3 were
really spies sent to assess the strength of the Celts, but it is
apparent that whatever the reason for the meeting, it escalated into
violence. After exchanged insults, the Roman envoys were involved in a
skirmish with the Gauls, in which one Celtic chief tan was killed. The
commissioners returned to Rome without relief for Clusium and with an
angry Gallic army behind them. Brennus sent his own representatives to
Rome to demand the 3 men be turned over to him, but was predictably
refused. Later that year, 390 BC, the angered Gauls left Clusium
behind and headed for Rome to seek revenge.

The advancing Gauls invaded Roman territory and threatened the
security of Rome herself. Eleven miles to the north of Rome, an
outnumbered Roman army mustered under the command of A.Quintus
Sulpicius, met them on July 16, 390 BC, and suffered a crushing defeat
on the banks of the River Allia. As all appeared lost, some Roman
defenders retreated to the Capitoline Hill to endure a siege, while
civilians fled through the city gates to the city of Veii and the
surrounding countryside. The Gauls poured into Rome slaughtering
civilians while looting and burning everything in their path. In the
5th and early 4th centuries BC, migratory Germanic tribes pressured
Gallic Celts living in the Danube regions to push South in search of
new territory. They were likely familiar with the Po River Valley, in
north central Italy, from trade arrangements with Etruscans who were
there. The Gauls crossed the Alps en masse capturing and settling
Etruscan territory by force. The Gallic tribes were united only by
blood and origin and each maintained their own kings or warlords. Some
of these tribes settled into cattle and cereal farming along with
peaceful cohabitation, but others maintained aggressive policies
towards their new neighbors.

One such tribe, the Senones, was under the command of a Brennus, who
led his Celts to the Etruscan city of Clusium about 100 miles north of
Rome. It is important to note that much of the ancient source
material, such as Livy, Polybius and Diodorus Siculus, is steeped in
legend or, especially on the part of Livy, biased though nationalism.
Whether Clusium was the target, or it simply stood in the path on the
way to the more powerful city of Rome, is unclear. It is clear,
however, that the Celts did approach and lay siege to Clusium and that
the Etruscans there likely set aside any differences and called to
Rome for help.

In response, according to the ancients, the Romans sent a delegation
of 3 envoys to treat with Brennus. Siculus claims that the 3 were
really spies sent to assess the strength of the Celts, but it is
apparent that whatever the reason for the meeting, it escalated into
violence. After exchanged insults, the Roman envoys were involved in a
skirmish with the Gauls, in which one Celtic chief tan was killed. The
commissioners returned to Rome without relief for Clusium and with an
angry Gallic army behind them. Brennus sent his own representatives to
Rome to demand the 3 men be turned over to him, but was predictably
refused. Later that year, 390 BC, the angered Gauls left Clusium
behind and headed for Rome to seek revenge.

The advancing Gauls invaded Roman territory and threatened the
security of Rome herself. Eleven miles to the north of Rome, an
outnumbered Roman army mustered under the command of A.Quintus
Sulpicius, met them on July 16, 390 BC, and suffered a crushing defeat
on the banks of the River Allia. As all appeared lost, some Roman
defenders retreated to the Capitoline Hill to endure a siege, while
civilians fled through the city gates to the city of Veii and the
surrounding countryside. The Gauls poured into Rome slaughtering
civilians while looting and burning everything in their path. At some
point they apparently attempted an uphill attack on the heavily
fortified capital, but were repulsed and never able to dislodge the
occupants. Rome was left to the enemy, except for the small garrison
in the Capitol and for eighty of the senators, men too old to flee,
who devoted themselves to the gods to save the rest, and, arraying
themselves in their robes—some as former consuls, some as priests,
some as generals—sat down with their ivory staves in their hands, in
their chairs of state in the Forum, to await the enemy. In burst the
Gauls, roaming all over the city till they came to the Forum, where
they stood amazed and awe-struck at the sight of the eighty grand old
men motionless in their chairs. At first they looked at the strange,
calm figures as if they were the gods of the place, until one Gaul, as
if desirous of knowing whether they were flesh and blood or not,
stroked the beard of the nearest. The senator, esteeming this an
insult, struck the man on the face with his staff, and this was the
sign for the slaughter of them all.

For seven months the Gauls remained and wreaked havoc around Rome.
Several assaults on the Capitol all failed, and one such night attempt
was even said to have been thwarted through the timely intervention of
the sacred Geese of the Temple of Juno. In any event, by this point,
the Roman garrison must've been getting dangerously low on supplies.
The Romans engaged with Brennus for terms that would ensure that the
Celts depart and Brennus apparently agreed to leave Rome for the price
of 1,000 lbs. of gold. There are theories that the Celts were paying
heavy tolls from disease, or that there own settlements to the north
were under attack by other Italian tribes. Whatever the reason,
Brennus accepted the terms and agreed to leave. The following passage
from Livy, regarding these terms, leaves us with one of the most
famous lines accredited to a barbarian chief in dealings with Rome:

"Quintus Sulpicius conferred with the Gallic chieftain Brennus and
together they agreed upon the price, one thousand pounds' weight of
gold. Insult was added to what was already sufficiently disgraceful,
for the weights which the Gauls brought for weighing the metal were
heavier than standard, and when the Roman commander objected the
insolent barbarian flung his sword into the scale, saying 'Vae Victis'
- 'Woe to the vanquished!"

With the departure of Brennus and his Gauls, many Romans wanted to
abandon their city and move to the nearby city of Veii, but reverence
for the gods and the divine will of Roma alleviated this concern. The
Romans obviously decided to stay, and quickly rebuilt the city. One
major improvement was the completion of the Servian Wall, supposedly
built by the Etruscan King Servius Tullus. As a further result of the
Gallic invasion, the Romans adopted new military weaponry, abandoning
the Greek Phalanx style spears in favor of the gladius and appropriate
armor. Through the resulting civil strife, the legion was reorganized,
placing the youngest and strongest soldiers in the front lines, as
opposed to the previous formation of order according to wealth.

The Gallic invasion left Rome weakened and also encouraged several
previously subdued Italian tribes to rebel. The Etruscans, Volsci,
Hernici, and Aequi were all among these numbers. One by one, over the
course of the next 50 years, these tribes were defeated and brought
back under Roman dominion. Meanwhile, the Celts would continue to
harass the region until 345 BC, when they entered into a formal treaty
with Rome. Like most others, this treaty would be short lived and the
Romans and Celts would maintain an adversarial relationship for the
next several centuries. The Celts would remain a threat in Italy until
the final defeat of Hannibal in the 2nd Punic War. The sack of Rome
would be long remembered by Romans, and would finally be avenged 3 and
a half centuries later with Caesar's conquest of Gaul.

After the defeat of the Roman army, the survivors hid in the woods
("lucus") and this day is called the Lucaria in commemoration of the
event. After the sack of Rome the remnants of the Roman army pulled
themselves together, and in a bold surprise attack, wiped out the
Gauls as they were heading out of Latium, exacting due vengeance it
was held, on July 19, in a wood, between the Tiber and the road called
Via Salaria.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Polybius, Wikipedia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44726 From: Claudio Guzzo Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: it was the Priscus case
but off topic.
So, please, do not repost. If you sincerly want to talk with me about it, you can send an e-mail only to my e-mail box.
Sorry! I used "his" and not "their" or "her" or "its" because I was talking about Priscus and he seems to be a man (but now I know he is not, he is a kind of pathetic neonazi, his capitis deminutio maxima and his civil death are not questionable, even if some NR manager gets his - or its - citizen tax) and my english was (and is) not correct: Nova Roman's rights are not the topic.
Valete
Appius Claudius Cicero

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44727 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
Salve Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"

Appius Claudius Priscus is on moderation, your are not. A few days ago I received, in my mail box, email
I had posted in early JUNE. Sometimes the internet has a mind of its own.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor


----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Collins<mailto:quintus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:20 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mail Delays?


Salve,
I hope that I am not being mistaken for Appius Claudius Priscus or
something. I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
not shown up. If their is a block on the name Priscus could someone
make sure it blocks the RIGHT Priscus, please. I will start using my
"servilius.com" address from now on and not
my "servilius-priscus.us" address anymore.

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44728 From: Lucius Caecilius Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Roman Clock Widget for Mac OSX
Vero! Es Priscus priscus, Prisce! Tu "Quintus Servilius Priscus Priscus" appellari potes!

Lucius Caecilius Metellus

Charlie Collins <quintus@...> wrote:
Salve,

If you have a Mac with OSX 10.4 you can get a Roman Clock(using Roman
Numerals) at Haubergs.com for your Dashboard. The site even mentions
(with a link to us)Nova Roma. Here is the link to it if you are
interested:

http://www.haubergs.com/widgets.php

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus (The First Priscus)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44729 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Religious freedom in Europe
M.Hortensia T. Flavio spd;
I do owe you an apology. I was generalizing from my
experience in Ireland. European countries are indeed quite diverse.

Your use of the word 'tradition' made me remember a conversation with
Scepticus the propraetor of Provincia Hispania when he visited
Hibernia. He too was shocked at the intense religous cultural
overtones and knowing I wasn't Christian asked me about them! And we
had a very interesting discussion of Ireland and the Spain.

Tradition certainly covers all kinds of beautiful monuments such as
St. Paul's in London and the wonderful Baroque churches of Germany.
And I support our state religio, so well put!
in amicita
Marca Hortensia Maior



> On a side note... As Nova Romans, perhaps we shouldn't be all that
> opposed to the notion of a state religion. I mean, the Religio *is*
the
> official religion in NR, but we're still allowed to worship our own
gods
> in private. That's not so much different from the way these matters
are
> handled in many European macronations today.
>
>
> --
> Vale,
> T. Flavius Calvus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44730 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
---Salve Servilius:

The mail was slow last night. I posted and one of my messages took
some time to appear. Yahoo overload I speculate.

Vale
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Collins <quintus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> I hope that I am not being mistaken for Appius Claudius Priscus or
> something. I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
> not shown up. If their is a block on the name Priscus could someone
> make sure it blocks the RIGHT Priscus, please. I will start using my
> "servilius.com" address from now on and not
> my "servilius-priscus.us" address anymore.
>
> Vale,
>
> Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44731 From: Titus Sergius Rufinus Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
On 19 Jul 2006, at 1148, A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

It was originally written for internal circulation within the British
civil service to help civil servants express themselves in as clear
and as as unobjectionable a manner as possible when corresponding
with members of the public.

Salve -

This sounds like an excellent resource for writers in general but it
also puts me in mind to run out and rent "Yes, Minister." and "Yes,
Prime Minister"!



T�SERG�RVFINVS
esse quam videri

http://raphael.doxos.com

IH+SV




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44732 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: To the Right Honorable James Hacker MP, PM WAY OFF TOPIC BUT FUN
Salve T.SERG.RVFINVS

"This sounds like an excellent resource for writers in general but it
also puts me in mind to run out and rent "Yes, Minister." and "Yes,
Prime Minister"!

Sir Humphrey: "My job is to carry out government policy."
Jim Hacker: "Even if you think it is wrong?"
Sir Humphrey: "Well, almost all government policy is wrong, but...frightfully well carried out."

Jim Hacker: "But you told me that you were telling me on a personal level?"
Major Saunders: "Yes, but now you know personally, even if you do not know officially you can use your personal knowledge to start official investigations to get official confirmation of personal

A very good BBC show!! I love it and no need to rent when you own it : )

Vale

TGP, MP GBE ABC HIJ KML ECT








esse quam videri

http://raphael.doxos.com<http://raphael.doxos.com/>

IH+SV




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44733 From: Maior Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: VOX ROMANA IS HERE:!!:
M.Hortensia Quiritibus spd;

VOX ROMANA your favorite podcast of all things Roman
is here at last!
tune in at http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
and enjoy our second podcast which
is better than ever
Learn Latin, here all the latest Roman news with
our roving reporter A. Apollonius Cordus,
tune into the Aeneid; Latin & English
& Military history with Gn. Salvius Astur!


I can unashamedly say it's fabulous:)
Marca Hortensia Maior
producer, VOX ROMANA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44734 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: the Priscus case
---Pompeia Minucia Q. Fabio Maximo S.P.D.

Thank you for your elaboration. No. The Senate did not vote. They
were in fact polled to vote at one point, but the vote was not allowed
to proceed. So for the moment we do not have a formal collective
decision or opinion of the Senate as a whole, although discussion has
transpired. This is the point I wish to stress. Individually, each of
us is of course entitled to express our point of view.

Vale




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/18/2006 6:16:38 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> pompeia_minucia_tiberia@... writes:
>
> Perhaps you innocently sympathize with this particular
> circumstance.circumstance.<WBR>..it is nonetheless a loose assumption
> Senate' as being in agreement with you.
>
>
> Consul, to put your mind at ease, please at your pleasure, poll the
Senate
> and see what they think about Priscus offense.
>
> My comment had to do what was reported to the Senate, and what we
Senators
> later found out. In no way did the Senate vote to do anything, and
I never
> said that, they left it up to private individuals, who happened to
be Senators,
> to pursue it in the courts. The case was accepted then dropped. Each
> citizen is free to draw his or her conclusion from this
information. As for
> divulging state secrets I mentioned no names, other then my own...
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44735 From: dicconf Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: To the Right Honorable James Hacker MP, PM WAY OFF TOPIC BUT
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006, Stephen Gallagher quoted:

> Salve T.SERG.RVFINVS
>
> Jim Hacker: "But you told me that you were telling me on a personal
> level?"
>
> Major Saunders: "Yes, but now you know personally, even if you
> do not know officially you can use your personal knowledge to start
> official investigations to get official confirmation of personal

This actually makes sense in a bizarre sort of way, under our system.

Were an investigation started, the investigatees could claim that the
material Hacker had received personally was selective, hearsay, biased and
what not. However, now that he knows what's what, he can demand the
pertinant documentation under the Freedom of Information Act. Such
documentation can't be dismissed as selective; it has to be complete.

I had occasion to use this ploy once or twice during my service as a
Faceless Bureaucrat...

-- Publius Livius Triarius
Dick Eney
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44736 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: The Singular Plural or Plural SingularUnum
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P.Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> P. Memmius Albucius Sempronio Lucretio Apollonio omn.que s.d.
>
> Interesting debate !
>

[snip]

> So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...
> and Latin ?
>
> Valete tres omnesque,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> Leg. Lugd. Galliae
>

Japanese does not mark number in grammar, so this issue of the
grammatical number of the government, for example, does not exist in
this language. Just imagine verbal morphology stripped of all
person/number marking and you'll have it.

optime vale

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 44737 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2006-07-19
Subject: Re: Mail Delays?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"
>
> Appius Claudius Priscus is on moderation, your are not. A few days
ago I received, in my mail box, email
> I had posted in early JUNE. Sometimes the internet has a mind of its
own.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
>

Maybe one of the tubes was blocked. *snicker* (
http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 )

Agricola