--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"
>
> Appius Claudius Priscus is on moderation, your are not. A few days

ago I received, in my mail box, email

> I had posted in early JUNE. Sometimes the internet has a mind of its

own.

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
>

Maybe one of the tubes was blocked. *snicker* (
http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499 )

Agricola

SALVETE !

The subscriptions for Munera Gladiatoria was closed. Now I invite you
to take a look to the vote page.
Quirites, you have the opportunity to vote your preferate gladiator !
Read carefully all the stories wrote by our participants. Then decide
who deserve your vote. That votes will count in the fights
calculations.
Please, enjoy :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/vote_gladiatoria.php

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

M. Hortensia M. Lucretio spd;
hmm, washitachi [w]..? lol...yes Japanese is tiresomely
oblique.
Finnish & Turkish also mark gender and number as does Russian. Don't
know about Basque though. Anyone?
bene valete
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Japanese does not mark number in grammar, so this issue of the
> grammatical number of the government, for example, does not exist in
> this language. Just imagine verbal morphology stripped of all
> person/number marking and you'll have it.
>
> optime vale
>
> Agricola
>

SALVETE QUIRITES !

According to the Official Calendar of NOVA ROMA festivals, from
July 20th to July 30th, LUDI VICTORIAE are celebrate.

We, Titus Iulius Sabinus and Gaius Equitius Cato, Nova Roma Curule
Aediles hereby solemny declare LUDI VICTORIAE of year 2759 a.U.c open !


http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july20.htm

VALETE,
Curule Aediles.

M.Hortensa A. Apollonio spd;
I can always count on you Corde for an interesting
reference. The main library has the 1986 editon of "Plain Words" 3rd
ed. but the Law Library had the 1948 edition by the author and the
irresistable notice of the publisher; "H.M. Stationary Off.,1948"
Naturally I cannot resist the earlier edition!
vale
Maior

>
> On questions like this I usually, if in doubt, have resort to an

excellent little book called "Plain Words", originally by Sir Ernest
Gowers and revised by Sir Bruce Fraser. It was originally written
for internal circulation within the British civil service to help
civil servants express themselves in as clear and as as
unobjectionable a manner as possible when corresponding with members
of the public. The book itself is written not only clearly but with
a nice gentle humour. On this subject it says:

>

> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius Sempronio Lucretio Apollonio omn.que s.d.
>
> Interesting debate !
>
> I first suppose, Sempronie, that "southerners" apply to U.S. ones.
> For many country may have their "northerners" and "southerners". ;-)
>
> Then, I would like to know how you - U.K. and U.S. citizens - explain
> this difference.
>
> ATS: Let me take a stab at this...if memory serves, the original
> inhabitants of the U.S. South(east) had different origins from those of the
> U.S. North(east), and brought different accents with them. Our southerners
> tend to drawl their vowels and drop their r¹s (would y¹all lahk some gree-uts,
> would you like some grits, a standard part of the meal in the south). Those
> in New England also drop the r, but don¹t drawl the vowels...and might not be
> familiar with grits. Both New Englanders and some southerners use the broad a
> (bahth, bath, rather than the digraph [ae, as in man as pronounced in much of
> American English]). There are other differences of vocabulary and phonology
> as well; the pronunciation of pin and pen (inter alia) is not distinguished in
> certain parts of the south.
>
> Last, if I may give you the example of French, the correct use is the
> singular one, specially in law matters. Naturally, in current
> conversation in daily life, people say : "The govt, 'they' have
> decided this". But this way of speaking is still seen as a weakness
> of language.
> Even if one speaks of a decision of an important (in number)
> assembly, one will tell : "the assembly/council/gvt etc. *has*/*is*"
> etc.. The fact that the decision has been adopted by a short majority
> is irrevelant. For the body is considered as one person. That is why
> there is no culture of dissenting voices expression, in French law.
>
> ATS: Again, I¹m no expert on this, but in our colonial period, we used
> the plural: the United States are, and of a right, ought to be free and
> independent...but after the Civil War, if not earlier, we started using the
> singular. Somewhere between the colonial period and the CW, we also seem to
> have lost the second person singular pronoun and pronominal adjective, but our
> southern friends like to distinguish singular and plural, so they use y¹all,
> or you-all, for the plural, whereas the rest of us are content with you for
> both singular and plural.
>
>
> So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...
> and Latin ?
>
> ATS: Methinks you know the rules for Latin...as for Greek, it¹s mostly a
> matter of gender; neuter plurals take the singular verb; masculine and
> feminine ones take the plural. If I¹m not mistaken, Japanese doesn¹t make
> this distinction, nor do several other non-Indo-European languages.
>
> Valete tres omnesque,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> Leg. Lugd. Galliae
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Sempronius Regulus"
> <a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve,
>> > I know a few Scots that might agree the plural should
>> > be applied to the country. ;-) Course, I know a few
>> > southerners who insist on their being a forgotten
>> > constitutional point to the plural "the United States
>> > are of the opinion" or "the United States have"... ;-)
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > --- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
>> > <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.
>
> (..)
>>> > > Nouns like "government" , "team", "company"
>>> > > are generally taken
>>> > > as plural in UK English and as singular in US
>>> > > English.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Memmi Albuci!

Grammatically, the vocative of "Sempronius" is "Semproni". As your post suggests, there are just too many languages and too many countries on this list. But it is an interesting discussion.

Vale,
Lucius Caecilius Metellus

"P.Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
P. Memmius Albucius Sempronio Lucretio Apollonio omn.que s.d.

Interesting debate !

I first suppose, Sempronie, that "southerners" apply to U.S. ones.
For many country may have their "northerners" and "southerners". ;-)

Then, I would like to know how you - U.K. and U.S. citizens - explain
this difference.

Last, if I may give you the example of French, the correct use is the
singular one, specially in law matters. Naturally, in current
conversation in daily life, people say : "The govt, 'they' have
decided this". But this way of speaking is still seen as a weakness
of language.
Even if one speaks of a decision of an important (in number)
assembly, one will tell : "the assembly/council/gvt etc. *has*/*is*"
etc.. The fact that the decision has been adopted by a short majority
is irrevelant. For the body is considered as one person. That is why
there is no culture of dissenting voices expression, in French law.

So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...
and Latin ?

Valete tres omnesque,

P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. Lugd. Galliae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
> I know a few Scots that might agree the plural should
> be applied to the country. ;-) Course, I know a few
> southerners who insist on their being a forgotten
> constitutional point to the plural "the United States
> are of the opinion" or "the United States have"... ;-)
>
> Vale,
>
> --- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.

(..)

> > Nouns like "government" , "team", "company"
> > are generally taken
> > as plural in UK English and as singular in US
> > English.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Thanks for the info. It finally showed up(after more than 5 hours!).
It even took the "Mail Delay" e-mail more than 2 1/2 hrs to appear. I
was just worried that someone might have just seen the Priscus in my
name and thought maybe ACP was trying something new to get his
message across. Oh well, Yahoo must have been rrreeeaaalll slow last
night and early this morning.

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus

On Jul 19, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:

Salve Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"

Appius Claudius Priscus is on moderation, your are not. A few days
ago I received, in my mail box, email
I had posted in early JUNE. Sometimes the internet has a mind of its
own.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor


----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Collins<mailto:quintus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:20 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Mail Delays?


Salve,
I hope that I am not being mistaken for Appius Claudius Priscus or
something. I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
not shown up. If their is a block on the name Priscus could someone
make sure it blocks the RIGHT Priscus, please. I will start using my
"servilius.com" address from now on and not
my "servilius-priscus.us" address anymore.

Vale,

Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








Yahoo! Groups Links

> Salve, Q. Servili Prisce, et salvete, omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
>
> Salve,
> I hope that I am not being mistaken for Appius Claudius Priscus or
> something. I posted a message a little more than 2 hrs ago and it has
> not shown up.
>
>
> ATS: A year ago April, we received some messages at the Sodalitas
> Musarum...one month after they had been written. Delays of several hours (or
> even days) are not uncommon on Yahoo, especially if one is on moderation and
> far from the time zone of any moderators. While we¹re on this topic, too, I
> just approved two messages, and one which Yahoo characterized as spam...but it
> happened to be a message from Praetor Paulinus regarding this very issue.
> Sometimes they mark the moderators¹ mail as spam.
>
>
> If their is a block on the name Priscus could someone
> make sure it blocks the RIGHT Priscus, please. I will start using my
> "servilius.com" address from now on and not
> my "servilius-priscus.us" address anymore.
>
> ATS: If I¹m not mistaken, the only blocking we can do is on the website
> mail feature, but perhaps the praetores can prevent posting. They certainly
> can prevent uploading of files.
>
> Vale,
>
> Quintus Servilius Priscus "Priscus Primus"
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Scriba Praetoris T. Octavi Pii Ahenobarbi (officially)
> Scriba Praetoris Ti. Galeri Paulini (unofficially)
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This e-mail left me a little confused at first ...

> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:08:25 -0000
> From: "appiusclaudiuspriscus"
> <appiusclaudiuspriscus@...>
> To: antistoicus@...
> Subject: notice

> Notice: the email-sending capability of citizen
> Appius Claudius Priscus, assiduus, on the novaroma.org
> site has been suspended.

> This happened because I sent an email complaining that
> although I won the trial, I was punished anyway.

Who was Appius Claudius Priscus?

Searching the archives for this list and then the Web left
me with little clarity. I found a few dozen posts, accusations
of neo-naziism not backed up with any specifics, with
Appius protesting that he was being targetted because he
holds politically incorrect (conservative?) views. Looking
at the one and only source turned up by Google and Yahoo,
not counng its mirroring in the Nova Roma wiki, I saw an
echoing of this - violations of specific rules being alleged,
in a very public way, while the specifics of the case, including
the specific actions on the part of the accused alleged, being
treated as if they were state secrets. This does come aross as
an attempt to target a member with a trumped up charge, in
response to his political views.

I invite Appius to tell his side of the story over on the
Colosseum, located at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPGripe/

and invite others to post their civil rebuttals in the same
location. This discussion will be moderated. Posts that
consist of nothing but substanceless innuendo, "me too"
rehashings of what has already been said and the like
will not be approved. There will be no burying of the man
in bulk; if you wish to prevail, you'll have to do so through
the persuasiveness of your posts, not though their fatigue
inducing quantity.

Of course, you are free to ignore this invitation to defend
your organization's reputation in a neutral forum, one not
under Nova Roma's editorial control. If so, others will be
free to make of that what they will. If you do a search under
the words "Conservative Pagan", I think you'll find that I
am in a position to give this case exposure, and that I can
reasonably expect the support of a large number of likely allies
as I do so. Conservative Pagans are a lot more mobilized
than they used to be, and we're done with taking abuse in
silence. Europeans may be accepting of the notion of enforcing
political orthodoxy, but Americans as a group are not. Do
you really want to alienate your potential recruits from a
nation which, at over 300,000,000 people, is easily the
largest in the Western World? Because arrogance on this point
will be likely to accomplish just that.

If, on the other hand, this guy is just blowing smoke and
impressions are misleading, this is an opportunity to
rebut some of the rumor mongering without Appius being
able to convincingly say that he was the victim of
censorship. Why would I, as a non-Nova Roman, censor on
behalf of Nova Roma? My only interest is in seeing justice
done. Let's see if the same can be said for Nova Roma.



Antistoicus


PS. This message will be cc-ed to Appius and crossposted to
a variety of locations. Should it be censored, comments to
that effect will be posted as well.

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
this spurius Antistoicus sounds suspiciusly t like that neo-
nazi fool Priscus, bothering all of us. I want to register an
official complaint & also one against this post.
Who allowed this post through, honestly must I suffer
this person's posts everyday whilst my fellow Israelis are at war?
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> If, on the other hand, this guy is just blowing smoke and
> impressions are misleading, this is an opportunity to
> rebut some of the rumor mongering without Appius being
> able to convincingly say that he was the victim of
> censorship. Why would I, as a non-Nova Roman, censor on
> behalf of Nova Roma? My only interest is in seeing justice
> done. Let's see if the same can be said for Nova Roma.
>
>
>
> Antistoicus
>
>
> PS. This message will be cc-ed to Appius and crossposted to
> a variety of locations. Should it be censored, comments to
> that effect will be posted as well.
>

Edictum Praetorium IX

Ex Officio Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Praetor

Appius Claudius Priscus has posted over three hundred emails to the
citizens of Nova Roma. He has stated his opinion and he has stated
some things that could be considered falsehoods.

Another post by a person named Antistoicus antistoicus@... is
calling for us to defend, in another arena, our moderation of Appius
Claudius Priscus. I believe that Appius Claudius Priscus and this
Antistoicus are one and the same.

In the macro world Appius Claudius Priscus is or was a recent grad
student in Mathematics so is Antistoicus. I find that just a little
to coincidental.

While I believe this Nazi nut should be ignored and treated like
mushrooms, I have received a couple of complaints that his
"messages' are " of a disturbing nature" and " which cause fear or
revulsion in the recipient.

In accordance with the list guidelines and Nova Roma law on
SOLLICITVDO (Electronic Harassment) I am using the Imperium of my
office to suspend Appius Claudius Priscus and Antistoicus posting
privileges to any and all Nova Roma communication fora. The
webmaster will restrict any email postings from the Nova Roma
website by either of these two individuals.

He will still be able to send private emails to any person whose
email address he already has and nothing can stop that but your
delete button. I suggest you use it.


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

Given this the 20th day of July 2759 A.V.C. at 7:20 am Roman time In
the consulship of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and Pompeia Minucia
Strabo

A. Tullia Scholastica schrieb:

>> ATS: If I¹m not mistaken, the only blocking we can do is on the website
>> mail feature, but perhaps the praetores can prevent posting.

Yes, theoretically the list moderators can put a list member (or all
list members) on moderated status. Any post a moderated member sends
will have to be approved by one of the moderators to get through to the
list.

--
Vale,
T.F.C.

> A. Tullia Scholastica T.F.C. omnibusque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica schrieb:
>
>>> >> ATS: If I¹m not mistaken, the only blocking we can do is on the
>>> website
>>> >> mail feature, but perhaps the praetores can prevent posting.
>
> Yes, theoretically the list moderators can put a list member (or all
> list members) on moderated status. Any post a moderated member sends
> will have to be approved by one of the moderators to get through to the
> list.

ATS2: I have been a praetorian scriba for over 18 months now (read:
ML moderatrix), and moderate several other lists. All newbies on this list
are moderated, but one of our praetores instructed his scribae to remove
those who had been moderated for more than six months, whether or not any
had posted, and shown his or her good intentions by so doing. We also have
punitive moderation for up to two months, but that must be legally imposed,
whereas initial moderation affects everyone. Moderation does not in and of
itself PREVENT posting, however, though it typically delays it. On a list
with multiple moderators such as the ML, some moderators may be inclined to
let more questionable material pass muster than others would, and some
simply may not recognize the possible implications of letting posts from
more agitated members reach the list. Deletion of a given post will prevent
that one post from arriving on the list, and so, too, will rejection of a
post, but the person is still free to post in the future. Yahoo does not,
however, seem to provide a means of preventing all posting by a member short
of removal or banning; with regard to the ML, that would almost certainly
require legal action. Thus if Priscus or anyone wants to post, he can do
so; he is merely moderated so that his posts are read first‹and we have been
instructed to leave all of his posts for the praetors¹ inspection rather
than approve them ourselves. We regularly leave truly inflammatory posts or
the like to the praetores, and deal with those which are innocuous
ourselves.

Vale, et valete.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lucius Caecilius schrieb:

> So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...
> and Latin ?

German is very grammatical here, a singular noun must take a singular
verb, a plural noun takes a plural verb. "Regierung" (government) is a
singular.

--
Vale,
T.F.C.

Salve Antistoice Guest,

I'm sorry you are confused. There is no need to defend the reputation
of Nova Roma in any forum at all. Become familiar with our laws and
all will be clear. If you want more details, you need simply visit the
proper place where these things were discussed, publicly. A rehash for
your benefit seems counter productive. You can find the place in a
moment via message search.


Optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "antistoicus" <antistoicus@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> This e-mail left me a little confused at first ...
>

---

Salvete Omnes:

This Praetoral edictum is fully supported by this Consul and I
personally commend the Praetor's actions in this regard.

Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Galerius Paulinus"
<spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Edictum Praetorium IX
>
> Ex Officio Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Praetor
>
> Appius Claudius Priscus has posted over three hundred emails to

the

> citizens of Nova Roma. He has stated his opinion and he has stated
> some things that could be considered falsehoods.
>
> Another post by a person named Antistoicus antistoicus@... is
> calling for us to defend, in another arena, our moderation of

Appius

> Claudius Priscus. I believe that Appius Claudius Priscus and this
> Antistoicus are one and the same.
>
> In the macro world Appius Claudius Priscus is or was a recent grad
> student in Mathematics so is Antistoicus. I find that just a

little

> to coincidental.
>
> While I believe this Nazi nut should be ignored and treated like
> mushrooms, I have received a couple of complaints that his
> "messages' are " of a disturbing nature" and " which cause fear

or

> revulsion in the recipient.
>
> In accordance with the list guidelines and Nova Roma law on
> SOLLICITVDO (Electronic Harassment) I am using the Imperium of my
> office to suspend Appius Claudius Priscus and Antistoicus posting
> privileges to any and all Nova Roma communication fora. The
> webmaster will restrict any email postings from the Nova Roma
> website by either of these two individuals.
>
> He will still be able to send private emails to any person whose
> email address he already has and nothing can stop that but your
> delete button. I suggest you use it.
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
> Given this the 20th day of July 2759 A.V.C. at 7:20 am Roman time

In

> the consulship of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and Pompeia Minucia
> Strabo
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Or, anyone in Nova Roma -- or not in Nova Roma for that matter -- interested
in knowing about the affair that has become Appius Claudius Priscus can
e-mail me directly and I will explain to them, or talk to them about it if
necessary.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 7/20/06, M. Lucretius Agricola <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Antistoice Guest,
>
> I'm sorry you are confused. There is no need to defend the reputation
> of Nova Roma in any forum at all. Become familiar with our laws and
> all will be clear. If you want more details, you need simply visit the
> proper place where these things were discussed, publicly. A rehash for
> your benefit seems counter productive. You can find the place in a
> moment via message search.
>
> Optime vale
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I concur with my colleage and support the Praetors edictum. Appius Claudius
Priscus is a person that is worthy of only our apathy, and disdain.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modinaus

On 7/20/06, pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
wrote:

>
> ---
>
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> This Praetoral edictum is fully supported by this Consul and I
> personally commend the Praetor's actions in this regard.
>
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> Consul
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Tiberius
> Galerius Paulinus"
>
> <spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> > Edictum Praetorium IX
> >
> > Ex Officio Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Praetor
> >
> > Appius Claudius Priscus has posted over three hundred emails to
> the
> > citizens of Nova Roma. He has stated his opinion and he has stated
> > some things that could be considered falsehoods.
> >
> > Another post by a person named Antistoicus antistoicus@... is
>
> > calling for us to defend, in another arena, our moderation of
> Appius
> > Claudius Priscus. I believe that Appius Claudius Priscus and this
> > Antistoicus are one and the same.
> >
> > In the macro world Appius Claudius Priscus is or was a recent grad
> > student in Mathematics so is Antistoicus. I find that just a
> little
> > to coincidental.
> >
> > While I believe this Nazi nut should be ignored and treated like
> > mushrooms, I have received a couple of complaints that his
> > "messages' are " of a disturbing nature" and " which cause fear
> or
> > revulsion in the recipient.
> >
> > In accordance with the list guidelines and Nova Roma law on
> > SOLLICITVDO (Electronic Harassment) I am using the Imperium of my
> > office to suspend Appius Claudius Priscus and Antistoicus posting
> > privileges to any and all Nova Roma communication fora. The
> > webmaster will restrict any email postings from the Nova Roma
> > website by either of these two individuals.
> >
> > He will still be able to send private emails to any person whose
> > email address he already has and nothing can stop that but your
> > delete button. I suggest you use it.
> >
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Praetor
> >
> > Given this the 20th day of July 2759 A.V.C. at 7:20 am Roman time
> In
> > the consulship of Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus and Pompeia Minucia
> > Strabo
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:

> Another post by a person named Antistoicus antistoicus@... is
> calling for us to defend, in another arena, our moderation of Appius
> Claudius Priscus. I believe that Appius Claudius Priscus and this
> Antistoicus are one and the same.

They are not the same. I've tangled with Antistoicus before.
He's mostly harmless.

Vale, Octavius.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Salve Censor

I stand corrected, thanks for the update.

Antistoicus has been a list member since
2002 and has now unsubscribed from the
main list.

As I removed his posting privileges based on my belief that he and Appius Claudius Priscus
were the same person I will restore them if he wishes to re-subscribe to the list.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

The southern drawl is post-civil war. Ante-bellum
southern is close to elizabethan english. This is why
isolated pockets where the ante-bellum dialect still
exists is also where english shakespeare troupes come
to a summer/training camp. Towns around mt.
eagle/chattanooga, tn is where some of this dialect is
still found as well as west virgina.

--- "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...>
wrote:

> > A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio
> quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius Sempronio Lucretio Apollonio
> omn.que s.d.
> >
> > Interesting debate !
> >
> > I first suppose, Sempronie, that "southerners"
> apply to U.S. ones.
> > For many country may have their "northerners" and
> "southerners". ;-)
> >
> > Then, I would like to know how you - U.K. and U.S.
> citizens - explain
> > this difference.
> >
> > ATS: Let me take a stab at this...if memory
> serves, the original
> > inhabitants of the U.S. South(east) had different
> origins from those of the
> > U.S. North(east), and brought different accents
> with them. Our southerners
> > tend to drawl their vowels and drop their r¹s
> (would y¹all lahk some gree-uts,
> > would you like some grits, a standard part of the
> meal in the south). Those
> > in New England also drop the r, but don¹t drawl
> the vowels...and might not be
> > familiar with grits. Both New Englanders and some
> southerners use the broad a
> > (bahth, bath, rather than the digraph [ae, as in
> man as pronounced in much of
> > American English]). There are other differences
> of vocabulary and phonology
> > as well; the pronunciation of pin and pen (inter
> alia) is not distinguished in
> > certain parts of the south.
> >
> > Last, if I may give you the example of French, the
> correct use is the
> > singular one, specially in law matters. Naturally,
> in current
> > conversation in daily life, people say : "The
> govt, 'they' have
> > decided this". But this way of speaking is still
> seen as a weakness
> > of language.
> > Even if one speaks of a decision of an important
> (in number)
> > assembly, one will tell : "the
> assembly/council/gvt etc. *has*/*is*"
> > etc.. The fact that the decision has been adopted
> by a short majority
> > is irrevelant. For the body is considered as one
> person. That is why
> > there is no culture of dissenting voices
> expression, in French law.
> >
> > ATS: Again, I¹m no expert on this, but in our
> colonial period, we used
> > the plural: the United States are, and of a
> right, ought to be free and
> > independent...but after the Civil War, if not
> earlier, we started using the
> > singular. Somewhere between the colonial period
> and the CW, we also seem to
> > have lost the second person singular pronoun and
> pronominal adjective, but our
> > southern friends like to distinguish singular and
> plural, so they use y¹all,
> > or you-all, for the plural, whereas the rest of us
> are content with you for
> > both singular and plural.
> >
> >
> > So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese,
> German, Japanese...
> > and Latin ?
> >
> > ATS: Methinks you know the rules for
> Latin...as for Greek, it¹s mostly a
> > matter of gender; neuter plurals take the singular
> verb; masculine and
> > feminine ones take the plural. If I¹m not
> mistaken, Japanese doesn¹t make
> > this distinction, nor do several other
> non-Indo-European languages.
> >
> > Valete tres omnesque,
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> > Leg. Lugd. Galliae
> >
> > Vale, et valete,
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> > Sempronius Regulus"
> > <a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salve,
> >> > I know a few Scots that might agree the plural
> should
> >> > be applied to the country. ;-) Course, I know a
> few
> >> > southerners who insist on their being a
> forgotten
> >> > constitutional point to the plural "the United
> States
> >> > are of the opinion" or "the United States
> have"... ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > --- "A. Apollonius Cordus"
> >> > <a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > A. Apollonius M. Lucretio sal.
> >
> > (..)
> >>> > > Nouns like "government" , "team", "company"
> >>> > > are generally taken
> >>> > > as plural in UK English and as singular in
> US
> >>> > > English.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Astra inclinant, non necessitant. - Albinus
Hodie bonum est esse Romanum.

MMDCCLIX Anno urbis conditae (AUC)




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante XIII Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"But gods and men alike prevented the Romans from living as a ransomed
people. By a dispensation of Fortune it came about that before the
infamous ransom was completed and all the gold weighed out, whilst the
dispute was still going on, the Dictator appeared on the scene and
ordered the gold to be carried away and the Gauls to move off. As they
declined to do so, and protested that a definite compact had been
made, he informed them that when he was once appointed Dictator no
compact was valid which was made by an inferior magistrate without his
sanction. He then warned the Gauls to prepare for battle, and ordered
his men to pile their baggage into a heap, get their weapons ready,
and win their country back by steel, not by gold. They must keep
before their eyes the temples of the gods, their wives and children,
and their country's soil, disfigured by the ravages of war-everything,
in a word, which it was their duty to defend, to recover or to avenge.
He then drew up his men in the best formation that the nature of the
ground, naturally uneven and now half burnt, admitted, and made every
provision that his military skill suggested for securing the advantage
of position and movement for his men. The Gauls, alarmed at the turn
things had taken, seized their weapons and rushed upon the Romans with
more rage than method. Fortune had now turned, divine aid and human
skill were on the side of Rome. At the very first encounter the Gauls
were routed as easily as they had conquered at the Alia. In a second
and more sustained battle at the eighth milestone on the road to
Gabii, where they had rallied from their flight, they were again
defeated under the generalship and auspices of Camillus. Here the
carnage was complete; the camp was taken, and not a single man was
left to carry tidings of the disaster. After thus recovering his
country from the enemy, the Dictator returned in triumph to the City,
and amongst the homely jests which soldiers are wont to bandy, he was
called in no idle words of praise, "A Romulus," "The Father of his
country," "The Second Founder of the City." He had saved his country
in war, and now that peace was restored, he proved, beyond all doubt,
to be its saviour again, when he prevented the migration to Veii. The
tribunes of the plebs were urging this course more strongly than ever
now that the City was burnt, and the plebs were themselves more in
favour of it. This movement and the pressing appeal which the senate
made to him not to abandon the republic while the position of affairs
was so doubtful, determined him not to lay down his dictatorship after
his triumph.

It is stated that this speech of Camillus made a profound impression,
particularly that part of it which appealed to the religious feelings.
But whilst the issue was still uncertain, a sentence, opportunely
uttered, decided the matter. The senate, shortly afterwards, were
discussing the question in the Curia Hostilia, and some cohorts
returning from guard happened to be marching through the Forum. They
had just entered the Comitium, when the centurion shouted, "Halt,
standard-bearer! Plant the standard; it will be best for us to stop
here." On hearing these words, the senators rushed out of the
Senate-house, exclaiming that they welcomed the omen, and the people
crowding round them gave an emphatic approval. The proposed measure
for migration was dropped, and they began to rebuild the City in a
haphazard way. Tiling was provided at the public expense; every one
was given the right to cut stone and timber where he pleased, after
giving security that the building should be completed within the year.
In their haste, they took no trouble to plan out straight streets; as
all distinctions of ownership in the soil were lost, they built on any
ground that happened to be vacant. That is the reason why the old
sewers, which originally were carried under public ground, now run
everywhere under private houses, and why the conformation of the City
resembles one casually built upon by settlers rather than one
regularly planned out." - Livy, History of Rome 5.49, 55

The observance of the Lucaria, the commemoration of the sack of Rome
by the Gauls and the subsequent destruction of the Gallic army,
continued today, although as an even numbered day, it was not named as
such.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy

SALVETE !

Only a few hours to vote !!!
As in ancient times choose your preferate gladiator. Suport him.
Your vote is important. Is a way for gladiator to remain alive.

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/ludi/vote_gladiatoria.php

Until now, the peoples favourite is :

- Murmillo, Aequoreus.

Then in the next order :

- Murmillo, Agathyrsus.
- Thraex, Bastus.
- Hoplomachus, Aengus Ansgar.
- Hoplomachus, Baro ( The Clumsy ).
- Dimachaerus, Invictus.
- Secutor, Superstes.
- Murmillo, Hergestus

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

SALVETE OMNES!

I'm an ex-citizen of Nova Roma. I left NR because of Priscus. I sincerely find amusing this debate about the english grammar/ortography.
Did you forget the content of Priscus opinions?
Now you are worried about the "correct" english? And this is directly for you Cordus ( because I belive that YOU have some sympathy whith Priscus's opinions )!!!
I would like to see a day when the NR is able to lead whith the extrmists.
Is my english correct? Shall I take lessons?

Valete bene
Gaius Cassius Piso

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> escreveu:
---
Moderators Note

Gaius Cassius Piso it is good to have you here again but I must point out a few things.

A. Apollonius Cordus is many things.
He is a Classicalist
He is a law student
He is a teacher of many things Roman
He is a friend and a son
He is opinionated and he is brilliant
He talks long and writes short : ) or is it the other way around

What he is not is sympathetic to Nazism or Fascism
And he is a member of my Praetorian staff

As a guest on this board I respectfully request
that you do not slander him any further.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

A. Apollonius homini antistoicum nominato sal.

Thank you for your invitation "to defend your organization's reputation in a neutral forum". It is rather strange to be invited to defend something which is not really under attack; but you evidently expect some attack to materialize, and indeed I get the impression that it would not take much to persuade you to organize one yourself. (You said, for example, "I think you'll find that I am in a position to give this case exposure, and that I can reasonably expect the support of a large number of likely allies as I do so. Conservative Pagans are a lot more mobilized than they used to be, and we're done with taking abuse in silence.")

Since no attack has yet appeared, I can hardly put forward any sort of defence. But I can try to explain what is going on here. You may wish to know my credentials. I have been a citizen of Nova Roma since 2002, and have helf a few lower-level administrative offices there. Although I'm currently in such an office, my comments here are not any kind of official statement by Nova Roma: they are merely my own comments. Nova Roma, as you may know, is a community which models itself (sometimes with regrettable inaccuracy, it must be said) on the ancient Roman republic.

Ap. Claudius Priscus is a citizen of Nova Roma. I believe he is a relatively recent arrival. He has not been very active in any capacity which I have seen, though he has made occasional contributions to some of our e-mail lists. He may have been more active on e-mail lists I don't read (there are very many lists within Nova Roma). Recently a number of our senior magistrates came to believe that he was an adherent of a neo-fascist ideology. I use the term "neo-fascist" as a descriptive term, not as a term of abuse. I am given to believe that he has said as much himself. I cannot recall that I have ever seen him say that he was a fascist, but I have seen him questioned very persistently on the subject and in that exchange he showed no inclination to reject the label. He has never, to my knowledge, complained about being called a fascist. He has to my knowledge expressed views which are, to say the least, compatible with such an outlook - the statement which sticks most in my
memory was his assertion that many of the problems of western societies have been the consequence of the enfranchisement of women.

His social and political ideology is not the only factor in play, though it certainly colours the whole business. The more specific trigger of this chain of events was that, as I understand it, Claudius contacted the U.S. government to request that Nova Roma be given some area of land in Iraq to rule as a nation-state. I have read e-mails from him in which he confirms this. It has further been said that, in these communications with the U.S. government, he purported to be acting as an official representative of Nova Roma. I don't recall him denying this. He had previously contacted senior officers of Nova Roma and suggested asking the U.S. government for land in Iraq, and he was specifically told by those officers that Nova Roma was not interested in this scheme and did not wish him to contact the U.S. government in pursuit of this scheme; he was, moreover, specifically warned not to represent himself as an official spokesman of Nova Roma in any such communication.

When it was discovered that he had made this communication, some officers of Nova Roma became worried. Nova Roma is, of course, partly dedicated to the support and propagation of traditional ('pagan') Roman religious practices. It is also organized as a state and aspires one day to acquire some land as an administrative centre. For these reasons there is a constant, though usually low-level, worry in the minds of many citizens of Nova Roma that our community will be seen by the U.S. government (and perhaps by other governments, but the concern is particularly relevant to the U.S. since the group is incorporated in Maine) as some sort of Satanist secessionist group and could run into problems on this account. It will therefore readily be seen that the last thing most people in Nova Roma wants is to have a declared fascist purporting to be its official representative and asking the U.S. government for a fiefdom in Iraq! This was, I suspect, what spurred into action some of
those who had previously been content to leave Claudius alone with whatever ideology he chose to espouse.

There was some uncertainty as to what exactly could be done. A significant number of senior officers and prominent citizens wanted simply to eject Claudius from Nova Roma altogether. Others, however, were quick to emphasise that the laws which govern Nova Roma, as well as our unwritten but universally accepted law that we should do things as they were done in the ancient Roman republic unless there be some very good reason not to, made it impossible summarily to eject a citizen in this way.

The first attempt to address the perceived problem was made, or at least became known, on the 4th of June. The senate was convened in order that it might pass the so-called senatus consultum ultimum empowering the consules to expel Claudius. Students of Roman history will already have an idea of the significance of this; for others, I'll explain. We have, unlike the ancient republic (and much to the dissatisfaction of a number of us), a written constitutional document. According to this document the senate (which is composed largely of former magistrates and serves a double function as the board of directors of the non-profit corporation Nova Roma Inc.) has the power to enact what is called the senatus consultum ultimum, which empowers the consules (our two highest officers) to suspend normal constitutional rules to deal with some particular state of emergency. The very existence of the senatus consultum ultimum is a point of controversy in Nova Roma as it was in ancient
times, and there were further doubts about whether it was being used correctly in this case since there was no identifiable emergency and it was quite transparently being used to circumvent our normal constitution guarantees of fair trial. A debate followed alone those lines, in which Claudius himself freely and without undue hyperbole participated.

The following day the proposed senatus consultum ultimum (which had not yet been voted upon) was vetoed by one of the tribuni plebis. These five officers have, as students of Roman history will know, the power to block more or less any act by more or less any magistrate or body. The senatus consultum ultimum was therefore never passed. Claudius remained a citizen. A new approach was attempted.

The same tribunus plebis who had vetoed the senatus consultum submitted a prosecution against Claudius. We have a largely unused judicial system and, as in ancient times, it is left to particular individuals to prosecute those accused of crimes: the state does not prosecute. The charge was one of "treason", an offence which has no direct connexion with any crime in ancient Roman law and which is rather loosely defined because of poor legislative drafting. If proven, the offence may be punished by expulsion. The trial soon floundered, however, because in his haste to set up the court one of the consules committed a number of procedural errors. Whereas the rules of our judicial procedure require jurors to be selected randomly, the consul hand-picked a panel. He also proposed to preside over the trial himself, whereas this is normally done by a praetor. I believe that the consul acted in good faith and that these mistakes were the result of haste and poor judgement, but
nonetheless the process began to have all the appearance of a kangaroo court, and was criticised for that reason.

Meanwhile, another move was made. It's important to remember that, like the ancient Roman republic, Nova Roma has no unified government: executive power is dispersed among a number of autonomous magistrates with various powers and duties. The censores are a pair of magistrates who enjoy greater prestige but lesser powers than the consules. Among their duties is to supervise and safeguard public morality, and one of the ways in which they can do this is to impose a nota. A nota is a mark placed against the name of a citizen which indicates the censores' strong disapproval of some aspect of that citizen's moral conduct. It does not deprive him of his citizenship, but it brings certain civil handicaps of which the principle is the inability to vote. At this point, then, the censores imposed a nota on Claudius. The conduct of which the censores expressed their disapproval was that he had:

"-- produced a "White Power" radio show, sponsored by an "NSDAP"
organisation;
...
-- run for statewide political office on a platform that advocated
the removal of voting rights for women, denying child custody rights
to women, and the segregation of prisons;
...
-- and, that since becoming a citizen of Nova Roma, he has engaged in
Holocaust denial, while simultaneously claiming that Hitler's
internment of Jews was "as right" as the actions of Roosevelt
interning Japanese-Americans.
...
Furthermore, he has admitted last week that he wrote to the
United States Government's Department of State, proposing that Nova Roma be
given control of a portion of Iraq. This was done without the knowledge or
permission of any magistrate of Nova Roma."

(That is a quotation from the announcement of the nota.)

It may be necessary to explain further the role of the censores. They are elected specifically in order to act as guardians of public morality, and they are empowered to exercise a very broad discretion in carrying out this duty. It may appear that this is a rather authoritarian or even totalitarian system, but this would be a misapprenehension. They are, as I've said, elected by popular vote. They serve a term of office of two years, and cannot normally run for re-election thereafter. People who join Nova Roma know that they have these powers. If they do not know it then that is their own fault, for we advise applicants for membership to familiarize themselves with the constitution of Nova Roma; indeed they are required to do so, and must pass a test on the subject before being confirmed as citizens. The information is freely available. Moreover, anyone joining Nova Roma does so deliberately in order to join a community which models itself on the ancient Roman republic,
and this institution is one which existed in that republic. A person who subscribes to a political philosophy of minimal governmental interference in the private life of the citizen has, I must say quite frankly, only himself to blame if he finds Nova Roma unsatisfactory, for if he had known anything at all about ancient Rome he would have known very well what to expect.

To return to the narrative: after the nota had been issued, and with the trial coming under increasing strain for various reasons, the consul decided to abort the trial entirely. He in stead issued a series of official statements - edicta - including one condemning fascism and one condemning those who falsely hold themselves out as official representatives of Nova Roma. None of these edicta had any real effect beyond stating the policy and the views of the consul.

This was more or less where it lay until, a week or two ago, the following message from Claudius appeared on a Nova Roma e-mail list specifically dedicated to helping new citizens to find their feet. Under the title "Do Nova Roma citizens have any rights? Or only privileges?", he wrote:

> (To New Roman messageboard: I'm anticipating that this post will be
> rejected or drastically edited by the main NR messageboard. - Appius
> Claudius Priscus, taxpaying citizen of Nova Roma)
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Today, an official of NR told me that (although the charges against
> me were dropped and I am still a citizen) I may not vote, I may not
> have my picture in the Album Gentium (not even the innocuous
> passport-style picture that I sent), and I may not be a member of my
> provincial messageboard (provincial yahoo group).
>
> According to the rules of Nova Roma, I'm still a citizen. If the
> citizens of Nova Roma want citizenship to confer any rights, now is
> the time to speak up. If you want citizens to be slaves of the
> senate, now is the time to be quiet.
>
> In Rome, citizens had rights. Even in macrostates that are not
> republics, citizens have rights. Do citizens of NR have any
> rights?
>
> Valete,
> Appius Claudius Priscus
> Upper Midwest Province
>
> Addendum: I've mailed two checks to Wells to buy small lots of NR
> coins. Neither check was cashed, nor have I received any coins.

You can see that Claudius had not properly understood that the nota, which was what deprived him of his right to vote, was entirely separate from his trial. The album gentium, I should explain, is a listing of all citizens. Some citizens' entries in the album are accompanied by photographs.

To this message I replied as follows:

> A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.
>
> Hyperbole does your cause no favours. You have not been deprived of all your
> rights, and giving the impression that you have could lead people to think that
> you are more interested in causing trouble than in anything else.
>
> You have had a nota placed against your name by the censores. If you know
> anything about the constitution of the ancient republic you will understand that
> this renders you infamis and ineligible to vote. Voting is one of a large number
> of rights held by Roman citizens. It is not held by all Roman citizens:
> impuberes (minors) cannot vote, for example, and nor can new citizens who are
> still in their probationary period. The same is true in most modern states: in
> Britain, for example, convicted criminals who are serving jail sentences cannot
> vote either.
>
> So the fact that you are a citizen does not give you an automatic right to vote.
> You have been deprived of that right by proper legal process. The censores have
> the power to place a nota against the name of anyone they believe to have
> offended against public morals. This is in accordance with ancient custom and
> our written law. When you applied for citizenship you accepted this along with
> the rest of our law.
>
> You may believe that the censores have made the wrong decision, and you are
> within your rights to protest. You may try to persuade the censores to change
> their minds. If that fails, you may wait until new censores are elected and you
> can try to persuade them to remove the nota. But you are totally wrong to
> insinuate that you are being unlawfully persecuted. What has been done is
> entirely within the law.
>
> As for your photograph in the album gentium, I hope you are not attempting to
> argue that you have some sort of legal right to have your photograph displayed.
> From where do you derive this right: from what ancient custom or modern lex? The
> display of a photograph in the album gentium is a discretionary power of the
> magister aranearius. Every magistrate has a certain discretion over the use of
> his powers. If you believe that he has abused this discretion, you may, after
> the magister has left office, prosecute him under the appropriate law. You will,
> I suspect, lose, but if you can put together a satisfactory petitio you may have
> your day in court.
>
> And with regard to your membership of your provincial e-mail list, again this is
> a matter of the discretionary power of your governor. If you have a complaint
> about your governor, you may take it to the senate, which supervises the conduct
> of all provincial governors.
>
> So, let us recap. You have been deprived of only one legal right, and that has
> been done by proper process of law. Your other complaints are merely criticisms
> of the decisions made by magistrates who have the power to make those decisions.
> Your talk about slavery and the abolition of all rights of citizenship is
> totally unfounded. If you want to see just how many rights you still possess, I
> suggest you make use of the various avenues of complaint which I have suggested
> to you. If, on the other hand, you are not genuinely bothered about the things
> you are complaining of but are merely using them as a pretext to stir up
> trouble, please do not think that anyone will be fooled.
>
> As to your addendum, it sounds like you have tried to order some of the original
> run of coins which sold out some time ago and are no longer displayed as
> available on Nova Roma's website. The new coins are available here:
> http://harpax.biz/coins.html . Once again, there is a means of action available
> to you: contact the aediles curules, who supervise trade and commerce.

It is also worth commenting that Claudius' message appeared not long afterwards on the main Nova Roma e-mail list. It had not been edited in any way. It was largely ignored, probably since most subscribers understood what had happend to Claudius rather better than he did and therefore knew perfectly well that they had not, as he suggested, been deprived of all their rights, or indeed any of their rights.

It quickly emerged that he had sent the same message not only to these two lists but to a large number of people individually - two hundred and sixty-eight, according to our webmaster. He had done this using a special feature of the Nova Roma website which allows any citizen to send a message to any other citizen. Some citizens began to complain that they had received unwanted messages from Claudius through this system. The praetores, who have jurisdiction over this messaging feature in the website, suspended Claudius' ability to send messages in this way.

Discovering this, he again wrote to the Nova Roma e-mail list stating that this had happened. He also sent the same message to a large number of people by individual e-mail. This was the message which you, "antistoicus" (have you a name?), received and which prompted your original query.

I should at this point explain in more detail about the praetores. These magistrates are the principal moderators of the e-mail list and are responsible for maintaining public order. They are elected annually. Their discretion is a wide one, but it is counterbalanced by a number of factors. The first is that they are two in number, and the decisions of one can be reversed by the other. The second is that they can be overruled by the consules. The third is that they may be subjected to political pressure from the senate. The fourth is that they may be threatened with prosecution in our internal courts of law if they seriously abuse their powers. The fifth is that, when all else is said and done, they will leave office at the end of the year and will be replaced with a new pair who may think differently.

Many newcomers or casual observers fail to understand that these various restraints and counterbalances exist, and consequently misunderstand what is happening when a situation like that of Claudius arises. They see firm and authoritative action by the praetores and form the impression that some sort of totalitarian system is at work oppressing the subscribers of the list, because they don't know that the praetores are subject to the many hidden systemic checks I've mentioned. And, for the same reason, people often fail to realize that when they have objections to the praetores' actions they have those avenues to register those objections and to have them acted upon. They therefore tend to see an appeal to public opinion as their first and only port of call when they have problems. This was Claudius' reaction.

It will by now be clear, I hope, that Claudius has not been silenced because of his political views. His communications have been severely restricted because he has persistently attempted to cause disorder and disruption. He has been informed carefully of the various methods by which he can seek to have his concerns and complaints addressed, but he has not chosen to use any of these. Rather, he has continued to try to portray himself as some sort of martyr and to spread alarm among other citizens by telling them that they are being deprived of their rights. He claimed to have been silenced, and he made that claim so persistently and to so many people through so many different media that he has, at last, made his own prophecy come true; but the very fact that he was able to communicate that claim to more than three hundred people as well as at least two public e-mail lists shows exactly how false it was.

I must say that if I were praetor I would not have completely blocked him from writing to the e-mail list. But I am not praetor, and it is within the praetor's discretion to do so. It is still open to Claudius to appeal to the other praetor or the consules, or to the senate, or to file a prosecution against the praetor for abuse of power, or to sit tight until the end of the year in the hope of a more sympathetic hearing from next year's praetores. I doubt he will make use of any of these options since he has already shown quite clearly that he much prefers to complain loudly to anyone who will listen (and many who would prefer not to) that he is being oppressed than to actually take any of the relatively easy actions which would stop him being oppressed.

Finally, let me explain why you yourself, "antistoicus", have been preventing from writing to the list. It was simply because the praetor believed that you were a fictional person created by Claudius to get around the restriction placed on him. Your ability to write to the list was suspended pending investigation; but the praetor has since been informed that you are a real and distinct individual, and has said the following:

> As I removed his posting privileges based on my belief that he and Appius
> Claudius Priscus
> were the same person I will restore them if he wishes to re-subscribe to the
> list.

I shall hang around on this list for a few days in case anyone has any further questions which I can answer, but I hope I won't be needed for too long because I am rather busy at the moment, and I've already spent quite some time writing this.

A. Apollonius M. Hortensiae sal.

> I can always count on you Corde for an interesting

reference. The main library has the 1986 editon of "Plain Words" 3rd
ed. but the Law Library had the 1948 edition by the author and the
irresistable notice of the publisher; "H.M. Stationary Off.,1948"
Naturally I cannot resist the earlier edition! <

Ah, yes, H.M.S.O. was of course the original publisher because it was originally published for the internal consumption of the civil service. My edition is called "The Complete Plain Words", 1973, also published by H.M.S.O.

A. Apollonius P. Memmio sal.

> So, and what about Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Japanese...

and Latin ? <

Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole of the Roman state.

A. Apollonius L. Metello sal.

> As your post suggests, there are just too many languages and too many countries on this list. But it is an interesting discussion. <

Too many? To my mind there are not enough languages on this list: the overwhelming bulk of correspondence here is in English, even though our population is multilingual and our primary language ought logically to be Latin. English is so predominant that when anyone attempts to write in Latin there is usually a gruff note from somebody or other demanding a translation! I cannot agree at all that there are too many languages here, and I don't think that is what P. Memmius was saying.

Marcus Flavius Philippus Conservatus omnibus salutem dicit.

Some days ago i got this msg and i didn't give a notice as
NR asked to send such msgs to collect them for using if neccessary.

Well, I think we should let him behind us and go forward.
And this brings me on another topic.
I am looking for minimum two others who like to translate
into Latin. Thou I know it is more for the Latinitatis some may be interested
in this as it is an official contest here for the game CivCity - Rom.

Bene valete
M.Flavius Philippus Conservatus

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "appiusclaudiuspriscus" <appiusclaudiuspriscus@...>
> Gesendet: 18.07.06 20:37:18
> An: philipp.hanenberg@...
> Betreff: notice

> Notice: the email-sending capability of citizen Appius Claudius
> Priscus, assiduus, on the novaroma.org site has been suspended.
>
>
> This happened because I sent an email complaining that although I won
> the trial, I was punished anyway.
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000071

A. Apollonius C. Cassio sal.

> I'm an ex-citizen of Nova Roma. I left NR because of Priscus. <

And yet you seem still to be here. Strange...

> I sincerely find amusing this debate about the english grammar/ortography.

Did you forget the content of Priscus opinions? <

No, it's just that they're really nothing to say about them:

"That guy's a nutter."
"Yeah, I wish he'd go away."
"Me too."
"Yeah."
"Yeah."
"Yeah."

That's why we're not talking about Claudius' opinions. Because it's a very short and very boring conversation.

> Now you are worried about the "correct" english? <

No, we're having an interesting conversation about English grammar. It's not an important subject, but it's an interesting one because civilized people can exchange different opinions and different information about it. Fascism, on the other hand, is a very important subject, but it's also a very boring one because all civilized people have the same opinion about fascism: it's deporable.

> And this is directly for you Cordus ( because I belive that YOU have some sympathy whith Priscus's opinions )!!! <

Abi ad malam crucem, fatue trifurcifer. The only reason you believe that is because I have as little patience for your tiresome attention-seeking as I have for his. No, I have no sympathy whatsoever with his views. His views are despicable. But I have no interest in wasting my time criticising them. What he wants is attention. You seem to be quite happy to give it to him, but I have better things to do.

> I would like to see a day when the NR is able to lead whith the extrmists. <

He can't vote, he can't hold office, he can't have his photo in the album gentium, he can't even speak in public fora. I think he's been pretty thoroughly "dealt with". Don't you? Oh, wait, I forgot... nobody cares what you think, because you quit!

> Is my english correct? Shall I take lessons? <

Your English is fine. I suggest you use it to talk about something more worth talking about than one Nazi loon. Better yet, use it to talk about whatever you like, but do it *somewhere else*.

M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
fascinating, that's indeed what it sounds like; the
Roman state had refurbished the temple. I wonder if there are other
inscriptions to check...
Maior

> Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to

notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque
Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb
applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the
senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus
populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole
of the Roman state.

>

M. Hortensia G. Cassio Pisoni spd;
I don't know where you arrived at such an absurd idea,
but A.Apollonius Cordus is a person of deep scruples and character,
with whom I've worked & corresponded over 3 years. And as I am tired
of saying I'm probably the only active Jewish civis in Nova Roma, so
I really would know;-
The magistrates are busy working on a plan & I have my
own ideas how to deal with Priscus, basically I would like to be
Publius Clodius Pulcher to his Cicero!
In the interim, I'm quite enjoying our discussion of
grammar & Latin. Just because there are the uncivilized does not
mean that we should drop the concerns of all civilized men.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> I'm an ex-citizen of Nova Roma. I left NR because of Priscus. I

sincerely find amusing this debate about the english
grammar/ortography.

> Did you forget the content of Priscus opinions?
> Now you are worried about the "correct" english? And this is

directly for you Cordus ( because I belive that YOU have some
sympathy whith Priscus's opinions )!!!

> I would like to see a day when the NR is able to lead whith the

extrmists.

> Is my english correct? Shall I take lessons?
>
> Valete bene
> Gaius Cassius Piso
>
> pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> escreveu:
> ---
> Moderators Note
>
> Gaius Cassius Piso it is good to have you here again but I must

point out a few things.

>
> A. Apollonius Cordus is many things.
> He is a Classicalist
> He is a law student
> He is a teacher of many things Roman
> He is a friend and a son
> He is opinionated and he is brilliant
> He talks long and writes short : ) or is it the other way around
>
> What he is not is sympathetic to Nazism or Fascism
> And he is a member of my Praetorian staff
>
> As a guest on this board I respectfully request
> that you do not slander him any further.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>

Q. Caecilius Metellus C. Cassio Pisoni sal.

I am, in the first place, glad you find the debate about English grammar
and orthography amusing. I haven't been following it, but it's always a
good thing when educated people, such as are rather easy to find around
these parts, have educated conversations.

It is not, however, that what Priscus believes has been forgotten. In
fact, it has been a rather painful reminder of something which I feared
throughout my last relationship, and something I have to wake up and
face each and every day: in a number of places of all shapes and sizes,
there are people who utterly despise me (and those who chose not to
dissociate themselves from me) and would rather see me dead for reasons
entirely outside my control and outside the control of those
biologically responsible for my very existence.

It is, though, the case that, rather than continue to entertain the
ignorant, arrogant, unfounded, uneducated and entirely asinine views
with which Priscus has willingly and openly espoused himself, we have
decided to ignore him, and let him play with his toys in his own
day-care center.

Much as I loathe to think of it, there may come a day when Nova Roma is
entirely overrun by extremists such as Priscus. However, when that day
comes, it will cease to be Nova Roma, and will become the Imperium Novum.

However, as it stands now, many of the citizens here have more educated
and informed things about which we can converse. English grammar and
orthography happens to be among those things, and for the moment is the
topic of choice.

Salve Maior!

Yes, that is it exactly, we must compare other inscriptions.

+ Was the main verb perhaps *always* singular, by tradition?

+ Was the agreement of the phrase "Senatus populusque Romanus" always
singular, or did it vary?

In the interview with Professor Bersani
http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Interview_with_Professor_Silvia_Giorcelli_Bersani

she gives "the Roman estate" as the meaning of "SPQR", and that would
accord well with the view expressed by Cordus.

Optime vale

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
> fascinating, that's indeed what it sounds like; the
> Roman state had refurbished the temple. I wonder if there are other
> inscriptions to check...
> Maior
> > Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to
> notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque
> Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb
> applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the
> senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus
> populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole
> of the Roman state.
> >
>

M Hortensia Q. Caecilio Metello sal;
it's so strange amice to have people hating one out
there for just existing. What on earth did we ever do for this
Priscus to so loathe us? I have no answer except it must come from
within himself as he never knew us.

Anyway, there is an ongoing discussion at the Magistrates list, but
I wish to state it here before the Quirites:

my solution to deal with Priscus is to act as Publius Clodius
Pulcher did to Cicero in 58 C.E. that is have a tribune of the plebs
introduce legislation providing exile for 'any civis who holds
racist & neo-nazi views' Since Priscus was & is a neo-nazi: out he
goes & so do any neo-nazi racists in the future.

We should look to Roma antiqua for help in this matter. Good Cordus
provided me with this historical example when I discussed the matter
of exile with him. Granted Clodius isn't an ideal Roman;- But he
will do.

And to continue with civility and civilization; I hope to enter a
graduate class for accelerated Latin so I will be a truly civilized
person.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> I am, in the first place, glad you find the debate about English

grammar

> and orthography amusing. I haven't been following it, but it's

always a

> good thing when educated people, such as are rather easy to find

around

> these parts, have educated conversations.
>
> It is not, however, that what Priscus believes has been

forgotten. In

> fact, it has been a rather painful reminder of something which I

feared

> throughout my last relationship, and something I have to wake up

and

> face each and every day: in a number of places of all shapes and

sizes,

> there are people who utterly despise me (and those who chose not

to

> dissociate themselves from me) and would rather see me dead for

reasons

> entirely outside my control and outside the control of those
> biologically responsible for my very existence.
>
> It is, though, the case that, rather than continue to entertain

the

> ignorant, arrogant, unfounded, uneducated and entirely asinine

views

> with which Priscus has willingly and openly espoused himself, we

have

> decided to ignore him, and let him play with his toys in his own
> day-care center.
>
> Much as I loathe to think of it, there may come a day when Nova

Roma is

> entirely overrun by extremists such as Priscus. However, when

that day

> comes, it will cease to be Nova Roma, and will become the Imperium

Novum.

>
> However, as it stands now, many of the citizens here have more

educated

> and informed things about which we can converse. English grammar

and

> orthography happens to be among those things, and for the moment

is the

> topic of choice.
>

Salvete omnes!

The goddess Victoria was, and still is, honored by the celebration of the Ludi Victoriae. My own small part in the games is set to commence shortly. Beginning on July 23rd I will be presenting a certamen whose focus will be on the legendary heroes of Rome--those whose victories earned both fame and a place in history.

On the 23rd, 25th, 27th, and 29th, between 1600 and 2400 Rome time, two questions will be posted, worth 1-3 points each. Contestants will have 24 hours to e-mail their answers to icehunter@... . Answers sent to any other address will not be valid. The correct answers, and current standings, will be posted once the 24 hour period has ended, with the final ranking and the victor revealed on July 31st.

The answers to all of the questions will be obtainable through Google, although some may be more difficult to locate than others. The competitior with the highest total points at the contest's conclusion will be declared the winner.

The competition is open to all cives, including probationary citizens. In the age of Google, the playing field is as level as it has ever been.

Valete bene,
Tita Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete,

This is a thing called "hendiadys" where the one concept can be supplied by two nouns taking a singular verb. We do this in english with phrases like "law & order", or at least that's what Latin TAs tell their students.

Valete,
Lucius Caecilius Metellus

"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
Salve Maior!

Yes, that is it exactly, we must compare other inscriptions.

+ Was the main verb perhaps *always* singular, by tradition?

+ Was the agreement of the phrase "Senatus populusque Romanus" always
singular, or did it vary?

In the interview with Professor Bersani
http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Interview_with_Professor_Silvia_Giorcelli_Bersani

she gives "the Roman estate" as the meaning of "SPQR", and that would
accord well with the view expressed by Cordus.

Optime vale

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
> fascinating, that's indeed what it sounds like; the
> Roman state had refurbished the temple. I wonder if there are other
> inscriptions to check...
> Maior
> > Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to
> notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque
> Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb
> applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the
> senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus
> populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole
> of the Roman state.
> >
>






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The horse is dead. Let it rot.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana SPD.

With the Ludi Victoriae upon us, here's a basic primer of
the arms and armor used by the various types of gladiators.
It includes a game in which you have 60 seconds to pick
four of the correct accessories for particular gladiator
types.

Simplistic graphics, but useful if you are new to the
Munera Gladiatoria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/launch_gms_gladiator.shtml

Valete bene in pace Deorum

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana SPD.

The BBC radio documentary series THE ROMAN WAY is available
in a (free) very fast RealPlayer download. Access is from
the page below, which also includes a wealth of other info,
including some knowledge quizzes.

The four programs in the ROMAN WAY series are
--Life at the Edge in Ancient Rome
--Life at the Top in Ancient Rome
--Filling the Day in Ancient Rome
--Filling the Mind in Ancient Rome

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/romanway.shtml

Valete bene in pace Deorum

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana

Salvete

Well, properly hendiadys is the creation of a compund subject from a
subject and adjective, that is, a rhetorical device. I started this
discussion by talking about the concord of collective nouns as
subjects, pointing out (in different words) the BrE is far more likely
to display notional concord than AmE. We have now moved on to the
question of coordinated subjects. The normal procedure (in English at
least) is to view the sentence as representing a reduction and having
plural concord (Kim and Alex are getting ready) and the exceptional
procedure is to use singular concord when the coordinated subjects are
taken to refer to a single entity (The stars and stripes was on
display). This explains the singular concord of hendiadys, as the
compound subject originated in a noun-adjective pair, in other words,
a single entity. If the SPQR phrase exhibits singular concord but
other coordinated subjects in similar context exhibit plural concord
then we would have some evidence (good evidence, in my opinion) that
the SPQR phrase was understood in antiquity to refer to a single
entity. This is the position tha Professor Bersani adopts, but without
providing evidence in the interview referred to below. Cordus provided
some evidence, but as I pointed out, a bit more of a survey is needed,
if only to establish that plural concord with compound subjects was
possible on building inscriptions. Without this additional piece of
evidence it could be argued that singular concord was the universal
rule, regardless of the subject. Unlikely, I agree, but possible until
ruled out.

This also explains the bags under the eyes of most TAs.

Optime valete

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Caecilius
<lcaeciliusmetellus@...> wrote:

>
> Avete,
>
> This is a thing called "hendiadys" where the one concept can be

supplied by two nouns taking a singular verb. We do this in english
with phrases like "law & order", or at least that's what Latin TAs
tell their students.

>
> Valete,
> Lucius Caecilius Metellus
>
> "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
> Salve Maior!
>
> Yes, that is it exactly, we must compare other inscriptions.
>
> + Was the main verb perhaps *always* singular, by tradition?
>
> + Was the agreement of the phrase "Senatus populusque Romanus" always
> singular, or did it vary?
>
> In the interview with Professor Bersani
>

http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Interview_with_Professor_Silvia_Giorcelli_Bersani

>
> she gives "the Roman estate" as the meaning of "SPQR", and that would
> accord well with the view expressed by Cordus.
>
> Optime vale
>
> Agricola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
> > fascinating, that's indeed what it sounds like; the
> > Roman state had refurbished the temple. I wonder if there are other
> > inscriptions to check...
> > Maior
> > > Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to
> > notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque
> > Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb
> > applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the
> > senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus
> > populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole
> > of the Roman state.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

SALVETE QUIRITES !

To the Cultural Day, our intention is to present some works of our
citizens. These works are in connection with Ludi Victoriae. In my
opinion is a good way to celebrate the Ludi, too.
And, I'm glad to see that in NR still are citizens interested for the
cultural part. I want to thank them for their wonderful dedication.
The works are to this address :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july21.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus
est.

"'When you see such momentous consequences for human affairs flowing
from the worship or the neglect of the gods, do you not realise,
Quirites, how great a sin we are meditating whilst hardly yet emerging
from the shipwreck caused by our former guilt and fall? We possess a
City which was founded with the divine approval as revealed in
auguries and auspices; in it there is not a spot which is not full of
religious associations and the presence of a god; the regular
sacrifices have their appointed places no less than they have their
appointed days. Are you, Quirites, going to desert all these
gods-those whom the State honours, those whom you worship, each at
your own altars? How far does your action come up to that of the
glorious youth C. Fabius, during the siege, which was watched by the
enemy with no less admiration than by you, when he went down from the
Citadel through the missiles of the Gauls and celebrated the appointed
sacrifice of his house on the Quirinal? Whilst the sacred rites of the
patrician houses are not interrupted even in time of war, are you
content to see the State offices of religion and the gods of Rome
abandoned in a time of peace? Are the Pontiffs and Flamens to be more
neglectful of their public functions than a private individual is of
the religious obligations of his house?

'Some one may possibly reply that we can either discharge these duties
at Veii or send priests to discharge them here. But neither of these
things can be done if the rites are to be duly performed. Not to
mention all the ceremonies or all the deities individually, where
else, I would ask, but in the Capitol can the couch of Jupiter be
prepared on the day of his festal banquet? What need is there for me
to speak about the perpetual fire of Vesta, and the Image-the pledge
of our dominion- which is in the safe keeping of her temple? And you,
Mars Gradivus, and you, Father Quirinus, what need to speak of your
sacred shields? Is it your wish that all these holy things, coeval
with the City, some of even greater antiquity, should be abandoned and
left on unhallowed soil? See, too, how great the difference between us
and our ancestors. They left to us certain rites and ceremonies which
we can only duly perform on the Alban Mount or at Lavinium. If it was
a matter of religion that these rites should not be transferred from
cities which belonged to an enemy to us at Rome, shall we transfer
them from here to the enemies' city, Veii, without offending heaven?
Call to mind, I pray you, how often ceremonies are repeated, because
through negligence or accident some detail of the ancestral ritual has
been omitted. What remedy was there for the republic, when crippled by
the war with Veii after the portent of the Alban Lake, except the
revival of sacred rites and the taking of fresh auspices? And more
than that, as though after all we reverenced the ancient faiths, we
have transferred foreign deities to Rome, and have established new
ones. Queen Juno was lately carried from Veii and dedicated on the
Aventine, and how splendidly that day was celebrated through the grand
enthusiasm of our matrons! We ordered a temple to be built to Aius
Locutius because of the divine Voice which was heard in the Via Nova.
We have added to our annual festivals the Capitoline Games, and on the
authority of the senate we have founded a college of priests to
superintend them. What necessity was there for all these undertakings
if we intended to leave the City of Rome at the same time as the
Gauls, if it was not of our own free will that we remained in the
Capitol through all those months, but the fear of the enemy which shut
us up there?

'We are speaking about the temples and the sacred rites and
ceremonies. But what, pray, about the priests? Do you not realise what
a heinous sin will be committed? For the Vestals surely there is only
that one abode, from which nothing has ever removed them but the
capture of the City. The Flamen of Jupiter is forbidden by divine law
to stay a single night outside the City. Are you going to make these
functionaries priests of Veii instead of priests of Rome? Will thy
Vestals desert thee, Vesta? Is the Flamen to bring fresh guilt upon
himself and the State for every night he sojourns abroad? Think of the
other proceedings which, after the auspices have been duly taken, we
conduct almost entirely within the City boundaries-to what oblivion,
to what neglect are we consigning them! The Assembly of the Curies,
which confers the supreme command, the Assembly of the Centuries, in
which you elect the consuls and consular tribunes- where can they be
held and the auspices taken except where they are wont to be held?
Shall we transfer these to Veii, or are the people, when an Assembly
is to be held, to meet at vast inconvenience in this City after it has
been deserted by gods and men?'" - Livy, History of Rome 5.52

Today is the last day of the Lucaria, commemorating the surprise
victory of the Romans over the Gallic armies in Latium after the sack
of Rome in 390 BC.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy

Thank you for sharing the link. I have been listening to the programs with great interest.

"C. Aurelia Falco Silvana" <silvanatextrix@...> wrote: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana SPD.

The BBC radio documentary series THE ROMAN WAY is available
in a (free) very fast RealPlayer download. Access is from
the page below, which also includes a wealth of other info,
including some knowledge quizzes.

The four programs in the ROMAN WAY series are
--Life at the Edge in Ancient Rome
--Life at the Top in Ancient Rome
--Filling the Day in Ancient Rome
--Filling the Mind in Ancient Rome

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/romanway.shtml

Valete bene in pace Deorum

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana







Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Lucreti Agricola:

Oh no! You're absolutely right. I should've looked it up rather than trust my vague memory of a very terrible latin poetry class. I just put together the meaning in Greek of "hendiadys" and came out with the wrong answer. I suggest the moderators start appending my messages with correct answers.

Vale et valete,
Lucius

"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
Salvete

Well, properly hendiadys is the creation of a compund subject from a
subject and adjective, that is, a rhetorical device. I started this
discussion by talking about the concord of collective nouns as
subjects, pointing out (in different words) the BrE is far more likely
to display notional concord than AmE. We have now moved on to the
question of coordinated subjects. The normal procedure (in English at
least) is to view the sentence as representing a reduction and having
plural concord (Kim and Alex are getting ready) and the exceptional
procedure is to use singular concord when the coordinated subjects are
taken to refer to a single entity (The stars and stripes was on
display). This explains the singular concord of hendiadys, as the
compound subject originated in a noun-adjective pair, in other words,
a single entity. If the SPQR phrase exhibits singular concord but
other coordinated subjects in similar context exhibit plural concord
then we would have some evidence (good evidence, in my opinion) that
the SPQR phrase was understood in antiquity to refer to a single
entity. This is the position tha Professor Bersani adopts, but without
providing evidence in the interview referred to below. Cordus provided
some evidence, but as I pointed out, a bit more of a survey is needed,
if only to establish that plural concord with compound subjects was
possible on building inscriptions. Without this additional piece of
evidence it could be argued that singular concord was the universal
rule, regardless of the subject. Unlikely, I agree, but possible until
ruled out.

This also explains the bags under the eyes of most TAs.

Optime valete

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Caecilius
<lcaeciliusmetellus@...> wrote:

>
> Avete,
>
> This is a thing called "hendiadys" where the one concept can be

supplied by two nouns taking a singular verb. We do this in english
with phrases like "law & order", or at least that's what Latin TAs
tell their students.

>
> Valete,
> Lucius Caecilius Metellus
>
> "M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
> Salve Maior!
>
> Yes, that is it exactly, we must compare other inscriptions.
>
> + Was the main verb perhaps *always* singular, by tradition?
>
> + Was the agreement of the phrase "Senatus populusque Romanus" always
> singular, or did it vary?
>
> In the interview with Professor Bersani
>

http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Interview_with_Professor_Silvia_Giorcelli_Bersani

>
> she gives "the Roman estate" as the meaning of "SPQR", and that would
> accord well with the view expressed by Cordus.
>
> Optime vale
>
> Agricola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
> > fascinating, that's indeed what it sounds like; the
> > Roman state had refurbished the temple. I wonder if there are other
> > inscriptions to check...
> > Maior
> > > Actually I was interested, when we were in Rome last summer, to
> > notice the inscription on the temple of Saturn: "Senatus populusque
> > Romanus incendio consumptum restituit". Here we have a singular verb
> > applied to what one would normally regard as a plural subject: the
> > senate *and* the people. I wonder whether perhaps the senatus
> > populusque is here regarded as a single entity, effectively the whole
> > of the Roman state.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus G. Cassio Piso. Salve.

If you resigned your citizenship because of Priscus, why are you still monitoring and criticizing the subjects posted on the list? Not every citizen is concerned about Priscus and have other interests that they may wish to post. If you cannot add something constructive to a topic of discussion and just wish to throw aspersions upon what others say, you are not contributing anything of value. This behavior causes individuals such as myself to wonder, what are you doing and why are you doing it? You respond privately to me or post on the main list.

Vadite in pace Cereris.

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re:Priscus case from ex-citizen of NR


SALVETE OMNES!

I'm an ex-citizen of Nova Roma. I left NR because of Priscus. I sincerely find
amusing this debate about the english grammar/ortography.
Did you forget the content of Priscus opinions?
Now you are worried about the "correct" english? And this is directly for you
Cordus ( because I belive that YOU have some sympathy whith Priscus's opinions
)!!!
I would like to see a day when the NR is able to lead whith the extrmists.
Is my english correct? Shall I take lessons?

Valete bene
Gaius Cassius Piso

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> escreveu:
---
Moderators Note

Gaius Cassius Piso it is good to have you here again but I must point out a few
things.

A. Apollonius Cordus is many things.
He is a Classicalist
He is a law student
He is a teacher of many things Roman
He is a friend and a son
He is opinionated and he is brilliant
He talks long and writes short : ) or is it the other way around

What he is not is sympathetic to Nazism or Fascism
And he is a member of my Praetorian staff

As a guest on this board I respectfully request
that you do not slander him any further.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor








Yahoo! Groups Links




________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

Just a quick note to say that I shall be out of e-mail contact for the next couple of days. Also after that I shall keep a fairly low profile because the Conventus is coming up and there is still much to prepare! But I shall still be around.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Propraetor Austrorientalis S.P.D.

This Sunday, America Austrorientalis will celebrate the Neptunalia
at the home of Violentilla Galeria Saltarix in Lebanon, Tennessee.
To receive directions, you will need to privately email her at
jademermaid@...

The celebration will include the purification, consecration, and
dedication of a shrine to Neptunus that Violentilla has built on her
property. There will be eating, drinking, and good company during
the length of the afternoon followed by a brief meeting of the
populace to discuss future events and plans for the province. Due
to the extremely hot temperatures, no games will be conducted but
there may still be some dancing in the evening.

Please bring chairs and lounges, lots of water & other beverages,
tents if you wish to camp out, box fans & extension cords, and
whatever hot weather foods you want to contribute. Roman or Greek
clothing is requested and recommended. There will be some shade
awnings available to sit under and Violentilla has made her home
available for those who need to take a cool break from the heat.
There are many hotels & motels available at Exit 238 I-40 in Lebanon
about 10 minutes from Violentilla's home.

The propraetor's office will be contributing several gallons of well-
watered mulsum; dates; cheese; and cold meat.

The theme of the Neptunalia is hilaritas and the main activity is to
drink as many cups of wine as you wish years added to your life. We
will be using very small cups, of course.

I hope that everyone who can will come to this event.

Salve Tite Ovidi Trigemine!

First of all a warm welcome to you!

Funeral practice in Britannia during the Imperial period is an enormous subject. The best account I have come across is in Martin Henig's 'Religion in Roman Britain'. This book is well worth a read if you're particularly interested in Roman Britain and contains a chapter on Religion and Burial Practice. You might also try googling for information on the Lullingstone Villa which contained a Temple/Mausoleum constructed in Romano-British style and apparently dedicated to the service of the dead. There is, of course, an enormous ammount of archaeological evidence pointing to a wide variety of practices. If you've got any specific questions fire ahead and I'll see if I can answer!

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

Daniel Yates <setantii@...> wrote:
Salve to all

I have recently signed up as a new citizen and would be thankful if
anyone could point me in the right direction to learn of Roman
funerary practices, and more importantly any variations in these as
found in the British Province...

Many thanks and Vale!

Titus Ovidius Trigeminus






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete! I hope I do not offend the gods or the populace by saying how
much I have enjoyed both the beautiful Opening Ceremonies and the
equally wonderful offerings for Cultural Day. Both have moved me to
tears of joy. Thanks to the aediles for these things! I look forward
to the rest of the celebrations.

Valete!
-Lucia Cassia Silvana

Erin from the Viable Paradise e-group had this info:

---------- Forwarded message ----------

I know we all have our own ways doing research, but I wanted to
share with you a really wonderful (and completely FREE) resource
that you may find handy.

MIT is currently in the process of putting all of their courses
online. Nearly 80% (if not more) are currently online and available
for viewing, and at no charge. If you go to this address
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html you'll access the MIT Open Courseware
site that has everything from cutting edge courses on nanotechnology
to foreign literature. There are videos, course notes, and anything
else that you could possible want for a quick crash course on a
topic of interest.

You can also view free videos of significant lectures, talks, etc
that have happened on MIT's campus. The URL for this site is
mitworld.mit.edu

- - - - - - end forwarded message - - - - - -

Haven't checked it yet, but it sounds astonishing. Or astounding. But
digital, not analog.

-- Dick Eney

SALVE LUCIA CASSIA !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Cassia Silvana"
<lucia.cassia.silvana@...> wrote:

I hope I do not offend the gods or the populace by saying how

> much I have enjoyed both the beautiful Opening Ceremonies and the
> equally wonderful offerings for Cultural Day. Both have moved me to
> tears of joy. Thanks to the aediles for these things! I look

forward to the rest of the celebrations.>>>

In the Aediles, both Aedilician Cohors and Cultural Day participants
name, I thank you for your nice appreciations.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

SALVETE OMNES!

M. Hortencia Maior and T. Galerius Paulinus guaratee that Cordus is not symphatetic to nazism and ´m wrong in regard to his opinions. I believe them.
Sorry Cordus.
It´s not so strange that I´m here again. I was only curious to see what´s new in this Forum and what did I find... Priscus in the spotlight again!
What happens everytime is that the first posts are about Priscus and his strange opinions but then the debate changes and looks like everyone forgot that the subject is Priscus and his opinions. Thats what I ment when I said that I find amusing the linguistic debate.
Portugues of Portugal and portugues of Brazil are different but we do understand each other perfectly. Why it isn´t possible in English?
However, Cordus suggested that I should use my english somewhere else.
Ok. I was only curious to see what´s going on in this mainlist. Sorry if I bored someone.

Valete bene!
Gaius Cassius Piso

Maior <rory12001@...> escreveu:
M. Hortensia G. Cassio Pisoni spd;
I don't know where you arrived at such an absurd idea,
but A.Apollonius Cordus is a person of deep scruples and character,
with whom I've worked & corresponded over 3 years. And as I am tired
of saying I'm probably the only active Jewish civis in Nova Roma, so
I really would know;-
The magistrates are busy working on a plan & I have my
own ideas how to deal with Priscus, basically I would like to be
Publius Clodius Pulcher to his Cicero!
In the interim, I'm quite enjoying our discussion of
grammar & Latin. Just because there are the uncivilized does not
mean that we should drop the concerns of all civilized men.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> I'm an ex-citizen of Nova Roma. I left NR because of Priscus. I

sincerely find amusing this debate about the english
grammar/ortography.

> Did you forget the content of Priscus opinions?
> Now you are worried about the "correct" english? And this is

directly for you Cordus ( because I belive that YOU have some
sympathy whith Priscus's opinions )!!!

> I would like to see a day when the NR is able to lead whith the

extrmists.

> Is my english correct? Shall I take lessons?
>
> Valete bene
> Gaius Cassius Piso
>
> pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> escreveu:
> ---
> Moderators Note
>
> Gaius Cassius Piso it is good to have you here again but I must

point out a few things.

>
> A. Apollonius Cordus is many things.
> He is a Classicalist
> He is a law student
> He is a teacher of many things Roman
> He is a friend and a son
> He is opinionated and he is brilliant
> He talks long and writes short : ) or is it the other way around
>
> What he is not is sympathetic to Nazism or Fascism
> And he is a member of my Praetorian staff
>
> As a guest on this board I respectfully request
> that you do not slander him any further.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>

__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A couple of problems Maior.

1) You are proposing outlawing thought. That is truly breathtaking. This
goes far beyond mere censorship or sanctioning openly expressed opinions,
but actually proposes bans having the views themselves. Surely Maior you
did not actually mean this.

2) Even if this law were restricted to openly expressing racist views there
could be problems. At what point does expressing a view on a racial issue
become racist. Would Willie Horton ads be considered racist? What about
admitting to reading Ann Coulter? What about getting mad about Hezbollah
terrorism and spouting off out of frustration and anger? What about those
magical code words that allow savants to discover racism in even a debate on
fiscal policy? Remember when some claimed that talking about crime was a
code word for racism?

Unless crafted very carefully, and tailored to target only the most extreme
cases, I fear this could become a true quagmire.

--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia P. Domino Antonio spd;
the magistrates prefer to go forward with a trial based
on the Lex Salicia, so this discussion is probably just theoretical,
but my bill would not outlaw thought, the wording would
contain 'holding & supporting racist & neo-nazi views' that's pretty
narrow. Since Priscus, supports a neo-nazi website replete with
Swastikas & ran for a local office on a resegregation ticket. I
don't see any problem.
This isn't America, this is Nova Roma, so yes I can
say 'let's throw all the neo-nazis out' I'm fine with that. Whereas
in America & according to Constitution & the Bill of Rights I do
defend the right of neo-nazis to have parades etc.. In Germany neo-
nazi parties are outlawed & so is denying the Holocaust. Let Priscus
preach to the rest of America; we don't need him or his ilk in Nova
Roma.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
<marsvigilia@...> wrote:

>
> A couple of problems Maior.
>
> 1) You are proposing outlawing thought. That is truly

breathtaking. This

> goes far beyond mere censorship or sanctioning openly expressed

opinions,

> but actually proposes bans having the views themselves. Surely

Maior you

> did not actually mean this.
>
> 2) Even if this law were restricted to openly expressing racist

views there

> could be problems. At what point does expressing a view on a

racial issue

> become racist. Would Willie Horton ads be considered racist?

What about

> admitting to reading Ann Coulter? What about getting mad about

Hezbollah

> terrorism and spouting off out of frustration and anger? What

about those

> magical code words that allow savants to discover racism in even a

debate on

> fiscal policy? Remember when some claimed that talking about

crime was a

> code word for racism?
>
> Unless crafted very carefully, and tailored to target only the

most extreme

> cases, I fear this could become a true quagmire.
>
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete,I do believe that we are getting wrapped up here in a sort of circular reasoning.I think this whole affair was handled incorrectley .The main issue should be about an act of treason commited against Nova Roma by approaching the State Department in the first place with an offer that had already been rejected by Nova Roma.That being to administer territory within Iraq.The trial should be reinstituted where the only outcome if based on the facts,would be guilty.And the only result would be exile or expulsion.The political views issue is only a sideline to deflect attention from that insane act.This issue continues to divide Nova Roma.It must end.The smart thing to do would be to have excepted the nota ,await the alloted time and to have continued to use this forum for the pursuit of things Roman,and not to continue making political issue.But this has not abatted as we have seen with the innundation of e-mails.The issue of persecution is being pusued
relentlessly.And now to the point of involving outsiders on other forums.This I will not support.Valete.Appius Galerius Aurelianus.Semper Fidelis!


Maior <rory12001@...> wrote: M. Hortensia P. Domino Antonio spd;
the magistrates prefer to go forward with a trial based
on the Lex Salicia, so this discussion is probably just theoretical,
but my bill would not outlaw thought, the wording would
contain 'holding & supporting racist & neo-nazi views' that's pretty
narrow. Since Priscus, supports a neo-nazi website replete with
Swastikas & ran for a local office on a resegregation ticket. I
don't see any problem.
This isn't America, this is Nova Roma, so yes I can
say 'let's throw all the neo-nazis out' I'm fine with that. Whereas
in America & according to Constitution & the Bill of Rights I do
defend the right of neo-nazis to have parades etc.. In Germany neo-
nazi parties are outlawed & so is denying the Holocaust. Let Priscus
preach to the rest of America; we don't need him or his ilk in Nova
Roma.
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
<marsvigilia@...> wrote:

>
> A couple of problems Maior.
>
> 1) You are proposing outlawing thought. That is truly

breathtaking. This

> goes far beyond mere censorship or sanctioning openly expressed

opinions,

> but actually proposes bans having the views themselves. Surely

Maior you

> did not actually mean this.
>
> 2) Even if this law were restricted to openly expressing racist

views there

> could be problems. At what point does expressing a view on a

racial issue

> become racist. Would Willie Horton ads be considered racist?

What about

> admitting to reading Ann Coulter? What about getting mad about

Hezbollah

> terrorism and spouting off out of frustration and anger? What

about those

> magical code words that allow savants to discover racism in even a

debate on

> fiscal policy? Remember when some claimed that talking about

crime was a

> code word for racism?
>
> Unless crafted very carefully, and tailored to target only the

most extreme

> cases, I fear this could become a true quagmire.
>
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"It is related that after this a disaster befell Rome. The level land
between the Palatine and the Capitoline is said to have become
suddenly a yawning chasm, without any preceding earthquake or other
natural phenomenon such as usually takes place in connexion with such
events. For a long time the chasm remained thus, refusing to close at
all or even to be filled, although the Romans brought and cast into it
masses of earth and stones and all sorts of other material. In the
midst of their uncertainty an oracle was given them to the effect that
the aperture could in no wise be closed unless they threw into the
chasm their best possession and that which was the chief source of
their strength; in this way the prodigy would cease, and the city
would command invincible power. Still the uncertainty remained
unresolved, for the oracle was obscure. But Marcus Curtius, a
patrician, young in years, of a remarkably handsome appearance,
powerful physique, and courageous spirit, and conspicuous for
intelligence, comprehended the meaning of the oracle. He came forward,
therefore, before them all and addressed them, saying: 'Why, Romans,
do we blame the obscurity of the oracle rather than our own ignorance?
We are this thing sought and debated. For nothing lifeless is to be
accounted better than that which has life, nor shall that which is
uncomprehending, speechless, and senseless be preferred to that which
has comprehension and sense and the adornment of speech. What should
any one deem superior to man to be cast into the earth-fissure, that
therewith we might close it?

But let no one think that I would have recourse to the lot or bid
maiden or lad perish. I, of my own free accord, bestow myself upon
you, that you may send me at once this very day as herald and envoy to
the chthonian gods, to be your representative and helper forever.'
With these words Curtius proceeded to put on his armour and then
mounted his horse. The rest grew mad with grief and mad with joy; and
collecting various ornaments, some adorned the man himself with them
as a hero, while others threw theirs into the chasm. Scarcely had
Curtius sprung into it mounted, when the earth-fissure was closed and
no one ever beheld either the chasm or Curtius. This is the way the
story is related by the Romans; should any person judge it fabulous
and not to be credited, he is at liberty to pay no attention to it." -
Cassius Dio, "The Roman Histories" VII.25, 32

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Cassius Dio

C. Equitius Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori P. Domino Antonio quiritibusque
S.P.D.

Salvete omnes.

Marca Hortensia, while the impulse to deny the spreading of the
loathesome patterns of thought demonstrated by Nazis, neo-Nazis, Ku
Klux Klanners, &c. is an admirable one, you cannot cloak the actual
illegal (under Nova Roma's lex Constitutiva) effect of such a law in
righteousness or indignation.

You say that you are not outlawing thought, yet you say that you wish
to deny the right to "hold" a certain kind of worldview with which you
disagree. If this is not outlawing thought, I'm not sure what is.

The second flaw is that your proposal outlaws supporting "racist &
neo-nazi views" - the ampersand indicating inclusiveness. What if I
hold neo-nazi views but not racist ones? What if I hold racist views
but not neo-nazi ones? Once again the importance of using clear and
precise English is made evident.

The third flaw is, of course, that the lex Constitutiva of the
Republic guarantees to its citizens the "rights and responsibilities"
of the laws of the countries in which they reside; while you are quick
to toss out the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution (for the
Republic's US citizens) to serve your purpose, you would be breaking
Nova Roman law in doing so.

Fellow citizens, I have been away from the Forum for an extended
period of time due to the pressures of work; I return to find us still
playing "PC Police". Yes, I think Appius Priscus' worldview is
tainted; yes, I think that he should not be allowed to present himself
to the outside world as a representative of the Republic. But give it
a rest. Reacting with hysteria - passing laws restricting thought or
speech in an attempt to cleanse us of all impurities - is a silly
response. Perhaps kindergarten children need this kind of
treatmentand oversight; Roman citizens do not.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia P. Domino Antonio spd;
> the magistrates prefer to go forward with a trial based
> on the Lex Salicia, so this discussion is probably just theoretical,
> but my bill would not outlaw thought, the wording would
> contain 'holding & supporting racist & neo-nazi views' that's pretty
> narrow. Since Priscus, supports a neo-nazi website replete with
> Swastikas & ran for a local office on a resegregation ticket. I
> don't see any problem.
> This isn't America, this is Nova Roma, so yes I can
> say 'let's throw all the neo-nazis out' I'm fine with that. Whereas
> in America & according to Constitution & the Bill of Rights I do
> defend the right of neo-nazis to have parades etc.. In Germany neo-
> nazi parties are outlawed & so is denying the Holocaust. Let Priscus
> preach to the rest of America; we don't need him or his ilk in Nova
> Roma.
> bene vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
> <marsvigilia@> wrote:
> >
> > A couple of problems Maior.
> >
> > 1) You are proposing outlawing thought. That is truly
> breathtaking. This
> > goes far beyond mere censorship or sanctioning openly expressed
> opinions,
> > but actually proposes bans having the views themselves. Surely
> Maior you
> > did not actually mean this.
> >
> > 2) Even if this law were restricted to openly expressing racist
> views there
> > could be problems. At what point does expressing a view on a
> racial issue
> > become racist. Would Willie Horton ads be considered racist?
> What about
> > admitting to reading Ann Coulter? What about getting mad about
> Hezbollah
> > terrorism and spouting off out of frustration and anger? What
> about those
> > magical code words that allow savants to discover racism in even a
> debate on
> > fiscal policy? Remember when some claimed that talking about
> crime was a
> > code word for racism?
> >
> > Unless crafted very carefully, and tailored to target only the
> most extreme
> > cases, I fear this could become a true quagmire.
> >
> > --
> > >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> > Tony Dah m
> >
> > Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> > Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem.

For the nundinum beginning today and ending a.d. III Kal. Sex., the
days are as follows:

22 a.d. XI Kal. Sex., Fastus
23 a.d. X Kal. Sex., Nefastus Publicus (Neptunalia)
24 a.d. IX Kal. Sex., Nefastus
25 a.d. VII Kal. Sex., Nefastus Publicus (Furrinalia)
26 a.d. VII Kal. Sex., Comitialis
27 a.d. VI Kal. Sex., Comitialis
28 a.d. V Kal. Sex. Comitialis
29 a.d. IV Kal. Sex., Comitialis
30 a.d. III Kal. Sex., Fastus

Di nos protegant!

A. Apollonius C. Equitio sal.

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but I must pick you up on one point:

> The third flaw is, of course, that the lex Constitutiva of the

Republic guarantees to its citizens the "rights and responsibilities"
of the laws of the countries in which they reside; while you are quick
to toss out the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution (for the
Republic's US citizens) to serve your purpose, you would be breaking
Nova Roman law in doing so. <

I don't think this can possibly be the correct interpretation of chapter II.B.2 of the lex constitutiva. I presume that is the chapter you refer to: the phrase "rights and responsibilities" doesn't appear in the lex at all, but II.B.2 reads:

"[Citizens have] the right and obligation to remain subject to the civil rights and laws of the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship, regardless of their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma".

This is, I admit, a profoundly opaque and unhelpful statement, and it is difficult to understand what it really means. I suspect it was not really intended to have any legal effect but merely to stop citizens of Nova Roma using their citizenship of Nova Roma as an excuse to disobey the law of whatever country they happen to be living in. But whatever it may mean, it cannot sensibly mean what you seem to say it means.

You interpretation is, it seems, that this chapter means that any rights which a Roman citizen enjoys under the law of his home country is also guaranteed to him by the law of Nova Roma, and that any obligation imposed upon him by the law of his home country is also imposed upon him by the law of Nova Roma. This would result in the total destruction of any coherent system of law in Nova Roma. You have an obligation under U.S. law to pay taxes to the U.S. If you fail to do so, can I sue you in a Nova-Roman court for that failure? The Russian Federation's constitutional statute says "Men and women shall have equal rights and freedoms and equal opportunities for their exercise" (art. 19.3). Can male citizens of Nova Roma who live in Russia therefore demand the right to be Vestal Virgins? In English law there is no duty to help someone else who is in danger, whereas in French law there is a duty of this kind: does this mean that if P. Memmius sees me lying injured in the street
and fails to phone for an ambulance, he will be punished by the courts of Nova Roma, whereas if I do the same to him I will remain unpunished? The interpretation you propose here would mean that our courts would administer not the law of Nova Roma but the law of whatever country or countries the parties to the case happen to inhabit. It would be chaos.

So, unless we are to believe that this absurd situation is in fact the correct interpretation of the law of Nova Roma, then the U.S. Bill of Rights is completely irrelevant to the law of Nova Roma and a breach of the former is not necessarily a breach of the latter.

P. Memmius Albucius Lucretio omnibusque s.d.

"M. Lucretius Agricola" <wm_hogue@...> wrote:

> Yes, that is it exactly, we must compare other inscriptions.
> + Was the main verb perhaps *always* singular, by tradition?
> + Was the agreement of the phrase "Senatus populusque Romanus"
>alwayssingular, or did it vary?

(..)

1/ In most of the inscriptions that I know, containing "senatus
populusque romanus", this expression is followed by a *singular*

ex. 1 : Senatus / populusque / Romanus / clivom / Martis / pecunia
publica / in planitiam / redigendum / curavit (CIL 06, 01270 - Rome)

ex. 2 : Se[nat]us po[pu]lusq[ue Romanus] / c[olonia]e [O]sti[ensi]u[m
mu]ro[s et port]as dedi[t] / M(arcus) [Tulliu]s C[icer]o c[o(n)s(ul)
fecit carav]itqu[e] / P(ublius) Cl[odius] Pul[cher tr(ibunus) pl
(ebis) co]nsumm[avit pro]b[avit] (..) (CIL 14, 04707, Ostia, Ita)

ex. 2 : Genio deivi Iuli / parentis patriae / quem senatus /
populusque / Romanus in / deorum numerum / rettulit (CIL 09, 02628 -
Isernia, Samnium, Ita)

ex. 3 : Publ]io Me[mmio Regula et] L(ucio) Fu[l]cinio Trione c[o(n)s
(ulibus)] senatus populusque Iptuccitanorum [hospitium] fecit (...)
(IRP Cadiz 00503, Baetica, Prado del Rey, Esp.)

2/ When the plural is used, it seems to be in later inscriptions,
during the late Empire, often written in african provinces and not in
a very "classic" language :

ex. Senatus p(opulus)q(ue) Lepcitanor(um) / C(aio) Macri f(ilio)
C(ai) Annonis / n(epoti) Phelyssam ob colum/nas et superficie(m) et
fo/rum stratum honoris / caussa [sic] decreverunt / Balitho [M]acri f
(ilius) [C]o[m]/[modus](IRT 00615, Leptis magna, Trip., Libya).

3/ It is interesting to remember that classical authors did not
*always* use "spqr" in a joined/pasted expression. For instance,
Cicero has several times used a balanced formula like :
"senatus decrevit populusque jussit", well making the difference
between the two powers.

Vale ac omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. Lugd. Galliae

C. Equitius Cato Apollonio Cordo sal.

Salve Apollonius Cordus!

I understand your interpretation, Corde, but I must confess that I
believe the lex Constitutiva of Nova Roma does, in fact, enjoin us to
behave in precisely the absurd manner in which you speak: and it is
just one of the reasons because of which I am so strongly opposed to
the lex Constitutiva's current status in our law.

The chapter to which we are both referring (and thank you for the
correct quotation) says that we have both the "right" and the
"obligation" to remain "subject" to the civil rights and laws of the
countries of which we are macronational citizens.

In the simplest possible interpretation this means that any civil
rights guaranteed to me by the laws of the United States are mine,
under the lex Constitutiva of Nova Roma, as a "right" within the
Republic. It also means that any "obligation" placed upon me by the
laws of the United States are recognized in the Republic's law. Now
this may lead to absurdities because of the intermacronational
existence of the Republic, but whether or not the result is absurd, it
is the logical result of the lex Constitutiva. And it is indeed chaos.

Vale bene,

Cato

Remember the dictum of Sherlock Holmes...

SALVETE QUIRITES !

"Little is known of Plautus' life; even his birth and death dates
are uncertain. The traditional belief is that he went to Rome when
he was very young and became a stage assistant. Eventually his
talent as an actor was discovered, and he took the names of Maccius,
a clown character in popular farces, and Plautus, a term
meaning "flat-footed." Tradition also says that he eventually made
enough money to go into the shipping business, but the venture
collapsed. He then is said to have worked as a manual laborer and
studied Greek drama in his spare time. His studies eventually
resulted in his plays, which were first produced between c.205 BC
and 184 BC. He wrote approximately 130 plays, of which 21 survive."

Today at Ludi Victoriae Scaenici, I present you the Plautus' play, "
Miles Gloriosus " :

http://www.crystalwebvision.com/aedil/july22.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

SALVETE QUIRITES !

The Certamen Historicum Daciae is arranged at :

- July 22th - Certamen Historicum Daciae I.
- July 24th - Certamen Historicum Daciae II.
- July 26th - Certamen Historicum Daciae III.
- July 28th - Certamen Historicum Daciae IV.

At 11 August 2759 a.U.c, Provincia Dacia will celebrate 1900 years
from the end of the war between dacians and romans. Is an important
date in our history, and us, all novi romani from Dacia are proud to
be contemporans with that major event. In the memory of all involved
in that war, romans and dacians, I decided to organize this
Certamen. It's a way to celebrate their courage and sacrifice to the
battle field.
Every Nova Roma citizen is welcome in this cultural contest,
including provisional citizens.
This Certamen will consisting two questions, once at two days.
Individual questions will be worth from one to three points. The
citizen with the highest number of point at the end of the contest
will be declared winner.
You have 24 hrs to answer; the correct answer will be published the
following day, from the July 22th to the July 28th . The final
results with the classification and the winner will be published at
July 31th .

All your answer have must to be posted ONLY to this email address :
iulius_sabinus@...
Answers posted to a list or sent to another e-mail address will be
invalid.

In less than a hour, enjoy !

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

SALVETE QUIRITES !

Let's start with this specific Certamen Historicum.

- Question no. I.
Starting with the Domitianus reign, the premises for the wars
between romans and dacians were outlined.
In one of the dacians attack in Moesia, the governor of that
province was killed.
a)Who was that governor ? ( 1 point )
b)Who was nominated by Domitianus to revenge the governor death ? (
1 point )
c)Who was in that period the dacians army leader ? ( 1 point )

- Question no. II.
Historians described Trajan as one of the greatest roman commander.
Before the wars with dacians,first, he tried to strengthen the roman
position to Danube. There some complex constructions were done. More
specifically, three important constructions ( engineering ), between
98 - 105 AC.
a)Enumerate them.( 1 point )
b)Which it was the first roman fortress to the dacian territory,
near Danube ? ( 1 point )
c)Who was the Trajan's wellknown architect ? ( 1 point )

Send the answers, in 24 hours, ONLY to iulius_sabinus@...

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

P. Memmius Albucius Equitio Cordo omn.que s.d.


As Cordus is underlining it in message 44798, we cannot ask our NR
law to enforce macronational law.

First because it would have no legitimacy in it : the only
institutions which may enforce a national law are these of the state
which has created them or included them in its own law (treaty).
Second, because there would be no use : what NR judicial system could
add to macronational systems of enforcement ?
Third, because it would be dangerous, specially for these ones among
us who may live in countries which do not offer to their citizens as
many rights as others countries do. Is this, then, NR office to relay
such differences ?

So, the law of our home countries must not "also be imposed upon our
cives by the law of Nova Roma.".

Let us go back to the genuine statement : until we have not a
territory and armed forces to casually resist to the will of our
macronational states and enforce ours, our right to gather in our res
publica is but the result of the freedom that our macronations give
us. Each of our countries says roughly : "I conceed you the right to
meet in a corporation called NR and enter its activities".

That is the reason of the article of our Constitution: to take
register this real situation. In other words, it could say : "NR law
is a civil contract authorised by macronational laws".

So, on the conflict between macronational rules (for inst. Bill of
rights) and NR, what to say ?

What is in stake ? Here, freedom of speach, opinions, etc. guaranteed
by most of our macronational states. This rule has been set up to
protect the citizen in the public field, specially vs the State. Not
to let everyone do everything in a private contractual field : a
child could claim for freedom of opinion and say « hey Mum, I am
intending to watch the TV all the night long : this is my (civil)
right » , I guess the mother would say « bed now or.... ». Because
constitutions of our macronational states give us civil rights etc.
but not to children under 18 or so, etc..
We Novaromans are in a similar private contractual field, the one set
by our organization, that we may enter or get in.
*Inside* NR, we are almost free to create every rule that we consider
useful to our organisation, specially necessary to build its social
contract.
For example an... anti-nazi organisation will not accept nazis in its
raws, because it would be contrary to its proper aims and
constitutive law.
The uncertain thing is to know whether an organisation may ask or
forbid *anyything* its members. Beside the fact that the main thing
is that we may leave at any time such an organisation, the final word
would be said by a macronational judge.
I would bid that, facing a "no nazi membership" organization, such a
judge would make the organisation civil contract prevail on the
(public) freedom of speach.

Last, as I did not express myself on the matter itself of the «
Appius case », I will humbly bring you two thoughts : first, every
large organizations risk welcoming, at one time or another, «
extremist » memberships ; second, an organization like ours is more
open to such situations, and for two reasons : the first one is that
we tend to see NR like a global reenactment society (and in every
society you find all possible trends and way to see things). The
second reason is more linked with Rome itself : maybe more as other
global society, it may be seen either as a peaceful democracy, or a
puthless empire. So you will find people seeing it one way and others
another way.
And I think this last point has been, for the moment, eluded or taken
for granted in the « Appius debate » : what do we see in Nova Roma ?
If we intend reenacting the ancient Rome who knew slavery, ludi,
slaughters, and offices for men, (and which Rome, republican, former,
later empire etc. ?), may we refuse a citizen to use rough words that
remind this state or say his/her longing for this « golden age » ? Or
will we consider that Nova Roma could be a society in which women and
men, whatever they live, have equal rights to public offices, etc. ?
Once the question asked and answered - better after a large debate...
or not - the resolution of such « Appius case » would be easily
solvable. If we answer that NR must be an « open as ancient Rome»
society, so the limitations to other Appii would be uneasy to find,
and we would be obliged to say « let us ignore them or put them in
quarantine » ; if not, considering that we belong to a organization
subject to (a) macronational law(s) and may close our door to some
kind of people, things would become more simple. It would just need
(re-)stating some constitutive rules and/or efficient and quick
following action from our magistrates.
I personally support this second way, for I consider that our « open
citizenship » will never prevent us to welcome one, ten or hundreds
of ill-intentioned persons.

To end this unusual long letter and come back to the example above by
Hon. Apollonius, no doubt that the application of roman virtues,
before any consideration of law, would lead either he, or Hon.
Equitius or me, in the tragic imagined circumstance, to do everything
to assist, help and protect a Novaroman and a friend.

Valete omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. Ludg. Galliae

A. Apollonius Cordus wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius C. Equitio sal.
>
> I agree with the thrust of your argument, but I must pick you up on

one point:

>
> > The third flaw is, of course, that the lex Constitutiva of the
> Republic guarantees to its citizens the "rights and

responsibilities"

> of the laws of the countries in which they reside; while you are

quick

> to toss out the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution (for the
> Republic's US citizens) to serve your purpose, you would be

breaking

> Nova Roman law in doing so.
>
> I don't think this can possibly be the correct interpretation of

chapter II.B.2 of the lex constitutiva. (..)

> This is, I admit, a profoundly opaque and unhelpful statement, and

it is difficult to understand what it really means. I suspect it was
not really intended to have any legal effect but merely to stop
citizens of Nova Roma using their citizenship of Nova Roma as an
excuse to disobey the law of whatever country they happen to be
living in. But whatever it may mean, it cannot sensibly mean what you
seem to say it means.

> You interpretation is, it seems, that this chapter means that any

rights which a Roman citizen enjoys under the law of his home country
is also guaranteed to him by the law of Nova Roma, and that any
obligation imposed upon him by the law of his home country is also
imposed upon him by the law of Nova Roma. This would result in the
total destruction of any coherent system of law in Nova Roma.
(..)

In English law there is no duty to help someone else who is in
danger, whereas in French law there is a duty of this kind: does this
mean that if P. Memmius sees me lying injured in the street
and fails to phone for an ambulance, he will be punished by the
courts of Nova Roma, whereas if I do the same to him I will remain
unpunished? The interpretation you propose here would mean that our
courts would administer not the law of Nova Roma but the law of
whatever country or countries the parties to the case happen to
inhabit. It would be chaos.

> So, unless we are to believe that this absurd situation is in fact

the correct interpretation of the law of Nova Roma, then the U.S.
Bill of Rights is completely irrelevant to the law of Nova Roma and a
breach of the former is not necessarily a breach of the latter.

Salvete omnes,

I had this debate the other day with some people. I can spped read
through the sports,news or entertainment sections of magazines but
cannot at all through a chapter on Latin grammar or a manual on
trouble shooting computers or oilfield instrumentation. Do any of
our teachers have thoughts on this?


Here is an article of interest:

Continuing Education

Does Speed-Reading Really Work?
by Martha Brockenbrough

I loved The Matrix, but that doesn't mean I don't snicker during the
martial arts download scene. In it, Neo picks up not only jujutsu*,
but also kung fu* and, somehow, the secrets of defeating gravity.
Not too shabby for a day spent hooked up to a computer via a
brainstem-USB port.

Wouldn't it be great to just sit in a chair and soak up years' worth
of knowledge in just a few hours?

There is a less glamorous, but also less icky, real-life version of
this: speed-reading.

And even though it isn't going to turn you into a kung fu master or
antigravity device anytime soon, it theoretically could make you
faster at work, more knowledgeable, and better able to stave off the
ravages of aging.

Some people claim to be able to read so quickly, they can take in
Tolstoy's War and Peace in about 15 minutes (less than half the time
it takes to, say, watch a far less sweeping episode of The Office).

In the United States, speed-reading grew popular during the Kennedy
administration, when the president hired Evelyn Wood Reading
Dynamics consultants to boost the reading rates of his staffers.
Regular citizens followed suit.

Today, Wood's program and others like it are still humming along.
There also is software that claims to boost reading speed by
flashing a single word on the screen at a time, saving your eyeballs
the time it takes to ping-pong back and forth across the screen or
page. (Epileptics be warned, though--it can apparently trigger
seizures).

As effective as these courses and software might be, I'm skeptical
that they will actually help you digest Gone with the Wind in record
time. While there are isolated cases of people who can read at
superhuman speeds, I doubt most people could not only read quickly,
but also understand and remember what they're reading. And really,
isn't understanding what you read the point of reading?

Worth a Click
• Guides to more than 1,000 great works of literature
• 4 great memory tips
• How do we learn to read?
The things that make you a slow reader
Remember in elementary school, how annoying it was to watch the kid
at the next table mouthing all the words he was reading?

Unfortunately, that kid is probably you--and you don't even know it.

Reading experts call this "subvocalization," and it's the habit of
sounding out words in your head as you read them. If you do this,
your reading speed slows down to your talking speed.

Regards,

QSP

Salve Quinte Suetoni,

"Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> writes:

> I can spped read
> through the sports,news or entertainment sections of magazines but
> cannot at all through a chapter on Latin grammar or a manual on
> trouble shooting computers or oilfield instrumentation. Do any of
> our teachers have thoughts on this?

I'm much as you are. I can zip through most non-technical prose, and even
through the standard glurge that passes as introductory text in NASA
operations concept documents and similar official literature. But once I get
to the meat of a technical paper I have to slow down and read very carefully,
often pausing to contemplate the precise meaning of a phrase.

I was taught speed reading in High School, and it works reasonably well for
things like newspaper articles. The key to speedreading lies in being able
to grasp whole words -- and even phrases -- as a single gestalt. That only
works when the words and phrases are so familiar as to be easily recognized.

By way of example I offer two passages. The first I can speed read in a
matter of just a few seconds. The second I have to take much longer to parse
for meaning.

I. Caesar fought in a civil war that left him undisputed master of the Roman
world, and after assuming control of the government began extensive reforms
of Roman society and government. He was proclaimed dictator for life, and he
heavily centralized the bureaucracy of the Republic. Ironically, this forced
the hand of a friend of Caesar, Marcus Junius Brutus, who then conspired with
others to murder the great dictator and restore the Republic. This dramatic
assassination on the Ides of March (March 15th) in 44 BC sparked a new civil
war in Rome.

II. In mathematics, quaternions are a non-commutative extension of complex
numbers. They were first described by the Irish mathematician Sir William
Rowan Hamilton in 1843 and applied to mechanics in three-dimensional space.
At first, quaternions were regarded as pathological, because they disobeyed
the commutative law ab = ba. Although they have been superseded in most
applications by vectors, they still find uses in both theoretical and applied
mathematics, in particular for calculations involving three-dimensional
rotations.

The second example is a *very* well written example of technical language. It
flows about as well as any such passage can, and yet it still took me about
twice as long to read it through the first time as the other paragraph I
cited above.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Valetudo quod fortuna Q Suetonius;

I've never taken a "speed reading" course in my life.

Depending upon the material (well-written fiction at the high end) my
reading rate is 250 - 100 pages per hour.

Personally I attribute this to the fact that my parents taught me to
read before I was 4 years old. My primers were my dad's "Science
Fiction Bookclub" volumes and the science/nature/craft books my mom
got me. My reading ability actually suffered when I started school.

My advice to the parents out there; DO NOT underestimate the ability
of your children to learn and understand materials, which are
said/thought to be too "advanced" for them.

Challenge your kids; they'll be much better for it.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Salvete Omnes.

I am a citizenship aplicant, so I am new in this group. Could you tell
me please what is that discussion about a cives named Priscus??

Sorry for my poor English, I am a latin language speaker (spanish)

M. Hortensia G. Equitio spd;
all that phrase means Cato is that as a member of Nova
Roma, a not-for-profit educational and religious corporation you
will be using U.S. law & the law of the State of Maine for any legal
issues you have with Nova Roma- the U.S. corporation.
Nova Roma our nation is entirely different & the Bill of
Rights & American law or European Law or Brasilian law is certainly
not applicable!
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> In the simplest possible interpretation this means that any civil
> rights guaranteed to me by the laws of the United States are mine,
> under the lex Constitutiva of Nova Roma, as a "right" within the
> Republic. It also means that any "obligation" placed upon me by

the

> laws of the United States are recognized in the Republic's law.

Now

> this may lead to absurdities because of the intermacronational
> existence of the Republic, but whether or not the result is

absurd, it

> is the logical result of the lex Constitutiva. And it is indeed

chaos.

>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Remember the dictum of Sherlock Holmes...
>

>
> M. Hortensia G. Equitio spd;
> actually I have no problem with a lex that forces into

permanent exile anyone who 'promotes racist & neo-nazi views' now
since Priscus ran for a U.S. public office on a resegregation ticket
and supports a website devoted to Neo-Nazi philosophy replete with
lovely Swastikas, I really don't know what the big issue is.

Are we really worried that such a lex will be applied freely
to others? I don't think so unless they march in parades with the Klu
Klux Klan or publish & hand out the 'Protocols of Zion'. Communists,
Libertarians, Epicureans, don't have anything to worry about.

Nova Roma is a not-for-profit corporation we can chuck people out
without a problem, people are confusing U.S. government guarantees:
eg; Nazis can march in the public square, with private ones. Priscus
is not guaranteed the right under the U.S Constitution to march in my
house or my religious corporation spouting his vile views; we're
allowed to discriminate against racists!!!
Marca Hortensia Maior

Salve,

The matter to which you refer is under fairly active debate. I don't
mean to be evasive, but I won't attempt a summary for you. Instead
I'll suggest that you use the very handy "search" function that is
available via the web interface. It works well, and along with the
nice new message threading feature in all Yahoo groups it should give
you answers to whatever questions you have. Then you can form your own
opinions.

Maybe I can be more helpful if I also mention the group "New Roman".
It is found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/ and is set up
to help new citizens get their bearings in Nova Roma.

optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "jsolanof" <jsolanof@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes.
>
> I am a citizenship aplicant, so I am new in this group. Could you tell
> me please what is that discussion about a cives named Priscus??
>
> Sorry for my poor English, I am a latin language speaker (spanish)
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica jsolanof quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Salvete Omnes.
>
> I am a citizenship aplicant, so I am new in this group. Could you tell
> me please what is that discussion about a cives named Priscus??
>
> ATS: Firstly, let me point out that we have more than one citizen named
> Priscus. This one is Appius Claudius Priscus, a highly educated person who
> appears to hold some rather unusual racist and sexist views, and who has, as
> is alleged, contacted the US government about donating some land in Iraq to
> Nova Roma. If true, this violates our laws, and exposes us to investigation
> by the government; if the sexist and racist allegations are true, they are
> contrary to our views here, and our laws as well. In accordance with our
> laws, he has been prevented from voting by censorial nota, and was to have
> gone on trial or be removed by decree of the senate. That¹s it in a nutshell.
> Perhaps one of our Spanish speakers could elaborate on this for you; we have a
> Spanish interpreter, Severus, who might be able to help. Due to the nature of
> these allegations, some people are having emotional, rather than logical,
> reactions to Priscus and his views...and that is never a good way to deal with
> these or other matters.
>
> Sorry for my poor English, I am a latin language speaker (spanish)
>
> ATS: You are not alone; many here are not native speakers of English, and
> in the past, and possibly the present, we have had native speakers of English
> who were a long way from mastering it. As above, we have a number of Spanish
> speakers here, and if you need assistance, you have only to ask.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> ATS
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good day noble citizens of Nova Roma. Here we are once again in the
arena to watch the quarters of Munera Gladiatoria.

The first fight for tonight is Superstes vs Aequoreus.
Superstes is a secutor owned by hon. Lucius Vitellius Triarius and
Aequoreus is a murmillo owned by the sweet lady Lucia Cassia
Silvana..
The gladiators enter the arrena, salute the audience and take battle
positions.
The fight begins.
Superstes launces the attack but Aequoreus strafes left and waits
another attack. Superstes attacks again with his lance and this time
is more accurate but the big shield of Aequoreus spares us from a
blitz fight. Seeing such defense Superstes knows that he needs to
see the weak point of Aequoreus and build a defense for himself.
Aequoreus launches a long attack, his sword slashing the air several
times until it meets Superstes' small Parma shield.
Showing signs of slowing down Superstes throws his lance, Aequoreus
defends himself behind the shield, Superstes sees a breach in
Aequoreus' defense and attacks with his celtic dagger, but he finds
himself with Aequoreus holding the gladius upon his neck.
Aequoreus is the winner and Superstes is spared by the audience for
showin some real courrage.

The second event is Aengus Ansgar vs Agathyrsus.
The firs is a hoplomachus owned by the same hon. Lucius Vitellius
Triarius and the second is a murmillo owned by the young and
beautiful Iulia Caesaris Cytheris Aege.
The gladiators enter the arena, salute the public, take battle
positions and the fight begins with Ansgar attacking Agathyrsus with
no mercy. Agathyrsus defends himself by blocking strafeing and after
that launces his own attack showing such mobility that we have seen
only at Achyles.
Ansgar points his lance at Agathyrsus but this one rolls over and
with his gladius manages to make a small wound on Ansgar leg, and
then he is back on his feet in no time.
Ansgar and Agathyrsus lauch attacks on each other and soon they find
themselves holding the control on each other: Ansgar holds his
gladius at the neck of Agathyrsus but this one is doing the same to
Ansgar. It looks like we have a tie-break but the audienge declares
Agathyrsus the winner because of the wound he caused to Ansgar's leg.
For such a beautiful fight Ansgar is spared.

The third fight is Hergestus vs Bastus
Hergestus is a murmillo owned by hon. Publius Constantinus Placidus
and Bastus is a thraex owned by hon. Titus Iulius Sabinus Crassus.
The gladiators enter the arenaand perform the ritual before the
fight. The fight begins.
Hergestus attacks but his attack is a little unsecure but really
brave, forceing Bastus to fall back. The attack continues but Bastus
seems to get Hergestus' technique. Hergestus does not stop, launcing
sparks with his sword on Bastus' shield. Bastus waits until
Hergestus is weaken and launces his own attack. After some sicca
hits Bastus realize that Hergestus has a very good defense that
permitting him even to rest for a little time. Bastus changes the
technique, letting Hergestus attack and look for the weak point. He
waits a little time while defending himself and soon he sees that
when attackig Hergestus lets his shield down, and takeing advantage
of this big mistake he points the sicca at Hergestus' neck.
Hergestus is spared for courrage and Bastus is the winner.

The last fight for tonight is Baro vs Invictus
Baro, also knon as "the Clumsy", is a hoplomachus owned by the sweet
lady Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana and Invictus is a dimachaerus owned
by the hon. Titus Iulius Sabinus Crassus.
The Fight begins with Baro lifting his helmet.
Invictus takes two steps back and waits for an attack from Baro not
knowing about the weird strategy of this one. Baro tries an attack
but when he tries to throw his lance this one falls down between the
fingers.
Invictus thinks that this is the moment and launches an attack that
could wipe everything from the face of the earthÂ…except Baro, who
does nothing but strech his leg a little and Invictus is on the
ground. What a David and Goliath sceneÂ…
Invictus gets up and tries another attack but Baro is tricking his
legs and falls on his knees. Invictus lift his sword to hit but soon
he feels something sharp at his neckÂ…it his Baro's dagger. The fight
is over with Baro the winner, and the crowd spares Invictus who
showed much determination.

So ladies and gentlemen we will meet again in two days for the
semifinals.
Until then Good Night and Good Fight.

C. Equitius Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.

Salve, Marca Hortensia.

You wrote:

"all that phrase means Cato is that as a member of Nova
Roma, a not-for-profit educational and religious corporation you
will be using U.S. law & the law of the State of Maine for any legal
issues you have with Nova Roma- the U.S. corporation."

And if the US Constitution guarantees citizens of the US freedom of
speech/expression, and Nova Roma attempts to pass By-Laws which
subvert the US Constitution's guarantee, then Nova Roma is violating
US law. Remember that as an incorporated entity, we may not violate
the laws of the US state in which we are incorporated, nor the Federal
laws which govern corporations in the United States - including the US
Constitution. Corporations are given fairly broad latitude in which
to work, but violating US Federal Law (including the US Constitution)
or Maine State Law are not protected by that latitude.

Vale bene,

Cato

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"I heard you glory in that you alone of the immortals saved the son of
Saturn from ruin, when the others, with Juno, Neptune, and Pallas
Minerva would have put him in bonds." - Homer, Iliad I

"We read that, on the birth of Zeus's elder brother Poseidon, his
mother Rhea saved the baby in like manner by giving his father Cronus
a foal to swallow, which the deity seems to have found more digestible
than the stone, for he is not said to have spat it out again." -
Apollodorus, The Library I.9

"I begin to sing about Poseidon, the great god, mover of the earth and
fruitless sea, god of the deep who is also lord of Helicon and wide
Aegae. A two-fold office the gods allotted you, O Shaker of the Earth,
to be a tamer of horses and a saviour of ships!" - Homeric Hymn to
Poseidon

"Hear, Poseidon, ruler of the sea profound, whose liquid grasp begirds
the solid ground; who, at the bottom of the stormy main, dark and
deep-bosomed holdest they watery reign. Thy awful hand the brazen
trident bears, and sea's utmost bound thy will reveres. Thee I invoke,
whose steeds the foam divide, from whose dark locks the briny waters
glide; shoe voice, loud sounding through the roaring deep, drives all
its billows in a raging heap; when fiercely riding through the boiling
sea, thy hoarse command the trembling waves obey. Earth-shaking,
dark-haired God, the liquid plains, the third division, fate to thee
ordains. `Tis thine, cerulean daimon, to survey, well-pleased, the
monsters of the ocean play. Confirm earth's basis, and with prosperous
gales waft ships along, and swell the spacious sails; add gentle
peace, and fair-haired health beside, and pour abundance in a
blameless tide." - Orphic Hymn 17 to Poseidon

"Arion [the poet rescued by a dolphin] wrote a hymn of thanks to
Poseidon that bears witness to the dolphin's love of music and is a
kind of payment of the reward due to them also for having saved his
life. This is the hymn: `Highest of the gods, lord of the sea,
Poseidon of the golden trident, earth-shaker in the swelling brine,
around thee the finny monsters (theres) in a ring swim and dance, with
nimble flingings of their feet leaping lightly, snub-nosed hounds with
bristling neck, swift runners, music-loving dolphins, sea-nurslings of
the Nereis maids divine, whom Amphitrite bore, even they that carried
me, a wanderer on the Sikelian main, to the headland of Tainarion in
Pelops' land, mounting me upon their humped backs as they clove the
furrow of Nereus' plain, a path untrodden, when deceitful men had cast
me from their sea-faring hollow ship in to the purple swell of sea." -
Aelian, On Animals 12.45

Today is the celebration of the Neptunalia, held in honor of Neptune
as the god of the seas and water. In the middle of ancient Italy's
really hot and dry summer season, when rivers were low and water was
most scarce, Romans sought Neptune's protection of irrigation waters
and works. To do this, they went out to the fields and forests and
built small huts called umbrae (shades) or tabernaculi (tabernacles)
out of leafy Laurel (bay) branches. Within the shade of these natural
tents they would picnic outdoors, drinking spring water as well as
wine to keep cool in these hot summer days. Richer folk might
sacrifice a bull to Neptune. Camping overnight with fires for cooking
(they shared the bull with the god) would be common, and the festival
continued the next day. Honoring Neptune on this day would assure
rainfall for the crops and forestall any drought. Neptunalia was also
considered to be an auspicious day to start new irrigation works,
which, despite the heat, were easier to construct in summer than
during other wetter seasons -- slaves did the hot and heavy work anyway.

Neptune was the god of the sea (as Neptune Oceanus) and of all waters
for Romans, but he was not among Rome's most revered and powerful
gods. Little is known of his origin: when he was first introduced in
Rome, he already had acquired all the characteristics of the Greek
Poseidon. Despite the fact that his cult grew after his equation with
Poseidon, Neptune was far less popular among Roman sailors than
Poseidon was with Greek mariners.

The Neptunalia was originally mostly a private affair concerned with
Neptune's protection of fresh agricultural water. It took on greater
significance as a public observance after Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa,
Augustus's military Chief of Staff and his Admiral, dedicated a temple
and porticus to Neptune after his naval victories over Marc Antony at
Azio and, shortly thereafter, at the decisive battle of Actium, in 31
BC. Agrippa's sanctuary was in the Campus Martius between his Pantheon
and baths, and after it was dedicated in 25 BC, the porticus may have
been the center for the public aspects of the Neptunalia. (Agrippa was
apparently a great fan of Neptune, and coins honoring Agrippa
routinely featured Neptune.) This Neptune complex was completely
restructured by Hadrian when he also rebuilt the Pantheon, so it is
difficult to discern the Agrippan design and functions of the structure.

Neptune was also held in high regard as Neptune Equestor, the god and
patron of the extremely popular horse races and of horses. As early as
206 BC, one of his temples was located near the Circus Flaminius, one
of the larger trace-tracks and the place where the equites, members of
the equestrian class, mustered for their ceremonies outside the
pomerium or ceremonial boundary of the city. The horse connection was
obvious: Neptune Oceanus was often depicted surfing on a sea shell
towed by "sea horses" (actually hippocampi, half horses and half fish
- in front to back order, of course: think of the alternative!) Part
of the Neptune myth is that he gave the first horses to men.

The areas around the Circus Flaminius and the Pantheon sometimes
flooded after spring rains in obvious manifestations of Neptune. A
coin issued around 40 BC depicted the Circus Flaminius Neptune temple
on a podium without an approaching staircase, and this has led to
conjecture that the temple might only have been used during floods
when it would be approached by boats.

Neptune usually carried the identifying trident and was accompanied by
dolphins. Rome's most famous shell-surfing Neptune is not Ancient
Roman at all. The twenty-foot-high marble statue was finished in 1761
by Pietro Bracci, under the direction of architect Nicola Salvi, as
the centerpiece of the Trevi fountain. Fittingly, it marks the end of
the Virgine aqueduct, which was originally extended to the Piazza di
Trevi by that same Agrippa who built the Temple of Neptune not far
away at the Pantheon.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Apollodorus, Homer, Aelian, Wikipedia