A. Apollonius P. Dominio sal.

You have misunderstood my view. I said that in the end the individual citizen must follow his own opinion of what the law is. That is not the same as saying that the law is whatever the individual citizen thinks it is. Whatever the citizen is thinking of doing will be either lawful or unlawful. He may think it will be lawful, but that does not mean it will be. No one can ever know for certain whether an act is lawful or unlawful until after it has been done, so when deciding whether or not to do it the best a person can do is to make a reasonable guess and act on the basis of that reasonable guess. This is true in all legal systems.

For example, I know that battery is not lawful. Because I have a good understanding of English, because I've watched crime-drama on television, and because I've studied criminal law, I know pretty well what, in general, constitutes a battery. But imagine that I see two people fighting in the street and I consider trying to separate them. I guess that I will probably have to exert some physical force to do so. I know that the exertion of physical force can constitute a battery. I know that the use of reasonable physical force is not a battery if the person does it in order to prevent a criminal offence being committed. I know that whether force is reasonable depends very much on the circumstances of the particular case. How do I apply all this knowledge to the situation I'm in? It looks to me like there's a criminal offence being committed here, with these two men hitting each other, so I can guess that I can use reasonable force to separate them without myself committing a
battery. I can make a fair guess at what sort of force will be reasonable in the circumstances. But I can't be certain. It may turn out that the two men are extremely convincing stunt-men practicing a routine in the street, and that they are actually not committing any criminal offences at all: if so, my use of force to separate them will be a battery. I just have to make my own guess about whether what I'm planning to do will be lawful or not.

That's what I was saying to C. Equitius. If a citizen is faced with conflicting instructions from the lex constitutiva and from an edictum, he must decide which of those instructions to obey. He will either get it right or get it wrong.

He can, of course, take advice from others. This is where it becomes a little difficult. Whose advice should he take? The most obvious answer is to take advice from the person who will in the end get to decide how the law applies to the situation at hand. That's why in England when doctors, for example, and uncertain whether switching off a life-support machine will be lawful or not, they ask the courts for advice: because the courts will be the ones rendering the final decision if the doctors get prosecuted. But in Nova Roma what is the equivalent? Who has the power to give authoritative interpretations of constitutional law? This is the problematic question.

You simply assert, on the basis of no evidence (or at least on the basis of no evidence you've mentioned) that the magistrates have this power. This theory is so full of holes that Hercules could drive Geryon's cattle through it dragging the Hydra behind him. Which magistrates? All of them? But then what happens if they disagree about the correct interpretation of the constitutional law? There can't be two correct but conflicting interpretations, so who decides which magistrate is right? And you say that the magistrates can "strike down" leges which contradict the lex constitutiva. How? By issuing an edictum saying "I strike down that lex because it's unconstitutional"? But the lex constitutiva says that leges are superior to edicta, so an edictum cannot strike down a lex. And now we're going round in circles.

The simple fact is that in our current constitution there is no way to get an absolutely definitive ruling on the interpretation of the lex constitutiva. This wouldn't be the case if the lex constitutiva itself explicitly gave some person or body the power to make definitive rulings on its interpretation, but it doesn't. You can try to find an implicit power if you want, but various people have been trying for several years and no one's yet found one which can't be disproven by using evidence from elsewhere in the lex constitutiva itself. I think the reason no one's found one is simply that there isn't one. The people who wrote the lex constitutiva tried to copy the institutions of the ancient republic. The institutions of the ancient republic did not include one with the power to make definite interpretations of the written constitution because there was no written constitution. The writers of the lex constitutiva didn't create a new, unhistorical institution to do that
job. So there is no institution capable of doing that job. They apparently expected the lex constitutiva do the job itself, but a piece of paper can't interpret its own contents. There are only two solutions. One is to create an institution capable of making definitive interpretations of the lex constitutiva (which would of course be such an abominable deviation from ancient practice that we might as well give up calling ourselves Romans at all). The other is to get rid of the lex constitutiva so that it's no longer necessary for anyone to make definitive interpretations of it (which is the way the Romans did it).

Salvete Omnes,

I knew, Albucius, that you were one of few persons able to understand
my so unusual English…

Perhaps indeed, after six months during which I tried to inform myself
on the real state of our country, constituting an alarming
documentation I maybe will put on my Internet site, I am back. I am
back because, to be honnest, although this is sometimes tempting, it
would be quite difficult for me to detach myself from NR.

Why? Here is the object of my response: because I precisely feel
myself to belong to this nation, which is not certainly a micro-nation
any more, but which is undoubtedly a nation although.

A nation don't need a territory: the example of the Jews proves it. It
is enough to be a nation we have all the feeling to be tied by common
origin, values, and objectives. Isn't it the case?

Are we a State? The question is certainly more delicate, but not
insurmountable: Even if there are human societies without State (as
Inuits) we can say about us that we are organized and we have a public
power we recognize as such (even if it is only symbolic) as well as
magistrates to manage our institutions and to use this power.

Is it essential to have a territory to be a State? Personally, without
being able to pronounce me with certainty, I am not persuaded of that.
But I affirm we are certainly the legitimate heirs to the territories
that illegitimate governments manage today illegally.

Je savais bien, Albucius, que tu étais un des rares à pouvoir lire mon
curieux anglais...

---

En effet, après six mois pendant lesquels j'ai tâché de me documenter
sur l'état réel de notre pays, documentation effrayante que je mettrai
peut-être sur mon site, je suis de retour. Je suis de retour car à la
vérité, bien que cela me tente parfois, il me serait bien difficile de
me détacher de NR.

Et pourquoi ? C'est l'objet de ma réponse à ton message: parce que je
me sens précisément faire partie de cette nation, qui n'est certes
plus une micro-nation, mais qui est assurément une nation tout de même.

Il n'y a pas besoin de territoire pour être une nation: l'exemple des
Juifs le prouve. Il suffit pour être une nation que nous ayons tous le
sentiment d'être liés par une origine, des valeurs, et un objectifs
communs. Et c'est bien le cas, n'est-ce pas ?

Sommes-nous un Etat ? La question est certes plus délicate, mais pas
insurmontable: Même s'il existe des sociétés humaines sans Etat (comme
les Inuits) nous pouvons dire que avons une organisation et une
puissance publique que nous reconnaissons comme telle (même si elle
n'est que symbolique) ainsi que des magistrats pour diriger cette
organisation et utiliser cette puissance publique.

Est-il indispensable d'avoir un territoire pour être un Etat ?
Personnellement, sans pouvoir me prononcer avec certitude, je n'en
suis pas persuadé. Mais je maintiens que nous sommes bien les
héritiers légitimes des territoires que des gouvernements illégitimes
administrent aujourd'hui illégalement.

Valete,

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Diribitor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P.Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

>
> P. Memmius Albucius dir. Minervali tr. pl. Paulino omnibus s.d.
>
>
> First let me please tell you that it is a pleasure reading you again,
> Minervalis.
>
> On the matter itself, the question of the land translates the way we
> see our organization. In fact, the question is simple : a land, what
> for to do ?
>
> If we consider our res publica as a state - I have well noticed that
> NR was no more a "micronation" ; is it still a "nation" or/and a
> state ? - we must recognize that each state owns, even reduced,
> public real estate.
> So we must not forget this aim : getting land. Now how ? Tribunus
> Paulinus reminds us wisely that the contributions brought by the
> citizens are not sufficient today. Hon. Minervalis underlines the
> interest of his view : getting involved in economic services. This
> way, the second answers the first : to increase our budget, we must
> find other financing sources. And, now and afterwards, when we are
> richer, it is still a matter of budget management and good
> governance : what amount of money for what kind of expense ? Land
> first ? Not yet ? Where ? etc.
> Ah ! I nearly forgot to remind that we could imagine getting land
> freely. I may hear Hon. Suetonius asking : "Hey Albucius, are u
> driving mad ? In a real world u would get acres for free ?". Well, if
> we are a *real* nation and a *real* state, yes.
> Is not the essence of a nation to get a territory, and to have a
> state ruling it (for example, Israel in 1948 or current Palestine).
> So are we a state ?
>
>
> If we consider NR rather as a corporation aiming at promoting
> romanitas (to say it short ;-) ), the question of getting land is not
> so central. It then answers to another question : a land, in order to
> complete which project ?
> It may be to build/re-build a house, an fort, a temple, etc.., or
> simply to meet regularly. Here, precise and interesting questions are
> asked, such : bringing money to build on others properties, for
> instance on a current state land, or to build on our land ?
>
> In my humble opinion, the discussion between you, Minervalis and
> Paulinus, is thus interesting under these 2 ways of considering our
> res publica.
>
> Valete ambo et omnes,
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> Leg. Lugd. Galliae
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis"
> <pjtuloup@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > The question of the land is important because much among us
> > undoubtedly would be more active if they knew that NR is rooted in
> the
> > real world. This question is thus at the same time symbolic and
> tactic.
> >
> > However, it is clear that such an ambition is out of our capacities
> > because at the same time of the cost of such an operation and
> weakness
> > of our resources.
> >
> > Indeed, not only it is necessary to consider the initial cost of the
> > acquisition, but also the charges of maintenance and the taxes (In
> > France, for example, the citizens are under overwhelming and
> > unjustified taxes of all kinds which are only used to maintain the
> > (high) way of life of the governmnent, of the political class and of
> > some increasing parasites, more and more demanding).
> >
> > Even if we had sufficient citizens to cover these expenses at a
> given
> > time, they would remain a problem as long as the renewal of our
> > resources would not be ensured by a source more reliable than the
> flow
> > of citizens. This is why, as I always said, NR should launch out on
> a
> > world level in the supply of various services related to Romanitas
> > (translations, advices, research, etc�) to ensure itself many and
> > stable resources.
> >
> > But all things considered, isn't the fact of focusing on a land
> > somewhere in the world a lack of ambition?
> >
> > We already had, in the past, better than a land, lands, and even
> > countries, and even a good part of a continent: Europe! Our
> historical
> > grounds are there and they must be reconquered. We do not have to
> beg
> > for a small isolated space whereas we are in charge to rebuild
> > polytheist and Roman Europe which are our own single roots.
> >
> > But, it would be necessary to make this quickly: because the
> sectarian
> > and fanatic populations who are settling in Europe and to
> proliferate
> > there at a dramatic speed have completely opposite objectives of our
> > culture and its survival.
> >
> > Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> > Diribitor
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus"
> wrote:
> (..)
> > >
> > > Leaving Priscus for a moment, I do see the subject of land and
> > > temples come up once and a while.
> (..) I'll remind our citizens again that even an
> > > ugly worn down old hovel in metropolitan North America costs over
> > > 200 K (I cannot imagine prices in Western Europe)these days and
> > > barring a big economic recession things are only going to go
> higher.
> (..) If 2000 souls could send 10 - 100 dollars per
> > > year we might come nearer to realizing our dreams but until tax
> > > paying attitudes change, it is rather a waste of time and
> emotional energy to contemplate land and building purchases.
>

Salvete omnes,

Suicide is forbidden by the mainstream religions including Islam.
There are always some crackpot religious leaders that seem able to
convince their followers otherwise. Islam has its problems but in
Christianity we have had the likes of Jonestown to Waco. That comes
from the idea that a little learning is a dangerous thing so a youth
can learn to crap a brick and think he can build a brick outhouse
thereafter. Even when I watched movies about espionage in WWII as a
child, priests and ministers explained to me that taking suicide
capsules was immoral and a quick ticket to damnation even though the
person doing it thought some good (not being forced to talk on
capture) would come out of it. Risking your life to save someone
from a burning building or trying to carry people to safety in an
air raid was permissible.

One solution for Islamic suicide bombers is to grab some of the
youth from their classes of evil and take them to Accapulco, Tahiti
or Bora Bora where there are beautiful lands, wines, buildings and
lots of women (well perhaps few virgins mind you). In that way they
realize their dreams and maybe avoid their brief exctasy in death
changing to instant dismay and horror when they meet 72 human
rendering demons on the other side as a big surprise!


Regards,

QSP














--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
<marsvigilia@...> wrote:

>
> I really don't understand why Kafir (ie non-Muslims) oppose the

idea of

> dying at the hands of the faithful. By dying you save yourself

from

> continuing a life of sin and give a good Muslim the opportunity to

receive

> his glorious reward of seventy-two virgins. This amounts to

terrible

> selfishness on the part of kafir.
>
> Remember, whether you are Jewish, Christian, Pagan, or atheist,

you are all

> kafir. There is no greater honor for kafir than being killed by a

Muslim.

>
> Allah is great.
> Allah is merciful.
> Allah please stop blowing up airplanes.
>
> --
>

There is debate amongst Islamic scholars whether or not People of the Book
(Christians, Jews and "Sabains") are considered Kafir or not.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 8/13/06, P. Dominus Antonius <marsvigilia@...> wrote:
>
> I really don't understand why Kafir (ie non-Muslims) oppose the idea of
> dying at the hands of the faithful. By dying you save yourself from
> continuing a life of sin and give a good Muslim the opportunity to receive
> his glorious reward of seventy-two virgins. This amounts to terrible
> selfishness on the part of kafir.
>
> Remember, whether you are Jewish, Christian, Pagan, or atheist, you are
> all
> kafir. There is no greater honor for kafir than being killed by a Muslim.
>
> Allah is great.
> Allah is merciful.
> Allah please stop blowing up airplanes.
>
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Tony Dah m
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, sarcinatrix vel vestifica sine nomine, et salvete, quirites, socii,
> peregrinique bonae voluntatis!
>
>
>
> Hello group, I have a dilemma with my 10 yr old sons tunic, I have
> made him an ankle length tunic which, when belted rises to mid calf.
>
> ATS: Roman tunicae intended for males ended above the knee in the
> republican period, though they were longer later on. Earlier, such long
> tunicae were considered effeminate. Likewise, the sleeves did not extend
> past the elbow, and sometimes barely covered the deltoid. Almost certainly
> children¹s tunicae were in the short end of this range; even little girls
> didn¹t wear ankle-length tunicae.
>
> Its made of deliciously soft natural off white lambswool cloth and I
> have whip-stitched it with linen through the largest tapestry needle
> in my kit, (I intend to fashion a bone needle before our next camping
> event in October). The problem is this, I would like to tablet weave
> the clavii but can't find much in the way of examples to copy. (I
> realise I should be weaving the whole tunic and using a tapestry
> technique to fashion the clavii but thats not realisticly practical at
> this stage.) The other alternative is to applique plain strips of dark
> red wool of a similar weave and embroider them somehow?
>
> ATS: I¹m not sure what a tablet weave is, but most reenactors seem to use
> appliqués. However, I¹m wondering why you would need clavi at all...do you
> think that they are mandatory? They are not; in fact, they are a symbol of
> rank, and are forbidden to those who haven¹t earned them. Since your son is
> not a curule magistrate, it isn¹t likely that he should have clavi at all. He
> is a child, not a senior magistrate. Children of the upper classes wore the
> toga praetexta, with the so-called purple border, and all wore the bulla, but
> clavi (not clavii; the nominative singular is clavus, not clavius) were
> reserved for those who had earned them. All Roman clothing marked the social
> status of the wearer; here in Nova Roma, we also observe these restrictions.
> Those who wear the laticlavi have earned them by being elected to a magistracy
> carrying senate membership; those who wear the angusti clavi are mercatores
> approved as being among our equites. Thus unless you are members of a secret
> magistracy, your son¹s tunica will be plain white/off-white wool. We don¹t
> consider it appropriate for any reenactor to don upper class togs right off
> the bat; one must literally EARN one¹s stripes...and that seems to be the case
> among reenactors who represent other time periods as well. However, Nova Roma
> is NOT a reenactment group; we LIVE in a Roman society under a Roman
> government, and have various Roman reenactors among us (of whom I am one), but
> most citizens of Nova Roma are NOT reenactors. We are also NOT involved in a
> role-playing game, lest anyone be deceived about THAT.
>
> If you weave a tunica from scratch, it is, of course, very easy to add the
> clavi, and to leave a slit for the neck opening; the male tunica is, after
> all, little more than a large woolen pillowcase with some apertures left in
> the side seams and a slit or aperture on one short side for the neck; the
> T-shape seems later. However, most of us aren¹t up to hand weaving, and I at
> least have yet to see any hand weaving done with yarn fine enough for such
> purposes.
>
> Does anyone
> have links to images or suggestions that may help please? I only have
> a few days to resolve this.
>
> ATS: My advice would be to leave the tunica plain. If you go to a
> reenactment event, there are likely to be Roman citizens there, and Roman
> citizens expect that any child wearing clavi is related to a magistrate,
> priest, or member of the ordo equester. Even if you aren¹t a citizen, it
> would be advisable to follow these conventions.
>
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica
Classicist
Interpres Linguae Latinae
Socia Legionis XXae et Legionis XXIVae




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

In fact, in the monotheist religions, it is prohibited to die if that
is not useful to the Church/Caliph: You can (must) die fighting the
enemies of the Church/Caliph (Crusades, Djihad, etc), but you should
not die of your own initiative...

In monotheisms, believers are only instruments of the religious
institution in his quest of power.

Valete,

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Diribitor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael
Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Suicide is forbidden by the mainstream religions including Islam.
> There are always some crackpot religious leaders that seem able to
> convince their followers otherwise. Islam has its problems but in
> Christianity we have had the likes of Jonestown to Waco. That comes
> from the idea that a little learning is a dangerous thing so a youth
> can learn to crap a brick and think he can build a brick outhouse
> thereafter. Even when I watched movies about espionage in WWII as a
> child, priests and ministers explained to me that taking suicide
> capsules was immoral and a quick ticket to damnation even though the
> person doing it thought some good (not being forced to talk on
> capture) would come out of it. Risking your life to save someone
> from a burning building or trying to carry people to safety in an
> air raid was permissible.
>
> One solution for Islamic suicide bombers is to grab some of the
> youth from their classes of evil and take them to Accapulco, Tahiti
> or Bora Bora where there are beautiful lands, wines, buildings and
> lots of women (well perhaps few virgins mind you). In that way they
> realize their dreams and maybe avoid their brief exctasy in death
> changing to instant dismay and horror when they meet 72 human
> rendering demons on the other side as a big surprise!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
> <marsvigilia@> wrote:
> >
> > I really don't understand why Kafir (ie non-Muslims) oppose the
> idea of
> > dying at the hands of the faithful. By dying you save yourself
> from
> > continuing a life of sin and give a good Muslim the opportunity to
> receive
> > his glorious reward of seventy-two virgins. This amounts to
> terrible
> > selfishness on the part of kafir.
> >
> > Remember, whether you are Jewish, Christian, Pagan, or atheist,
> you are all
> > kafir. There is no greater honor for kafir than being killed by a
> Muslim.
> >
> > Allah is great.
> > Allah is merciful.
> > Allah please stop blowing up airplanes.
> >
> > --
> >
>

Cato M. Moravio sal.

Piscine, you wrote:

"Isn't it our collective intention to move closer to historical
example? Then if all your problem with the current lex Constitutiva is
that you interpret it to give Aediles ahistorical powers above
Praetores and Tribuni Plebis, that can be easily fixed to prevent any
future displays of misunderstanding."

I agree absolutely. The lex constitutiva should *not* give unhistoric
powers to historic magistracies, and I would support an amendment of
the lex constitutiva to remove this. But the fact remains that, at
the present time, the curule aediles possess imperium, whether or not
you like it. And imperium contains within itself the power to call
the Senate and place items upon its agenda. You don't like it, it is
unhistoric - yet that is where we stand. The law is not made invalid
simply because you (or anyone else) doesn't like it. It is not made
invalid because it is unhistoric. Lex dura sed lex.

This selective reading and imaginative legal construction is all well
and good, but it does not change the actual wording of the lex
constitutiva. The written, authoritative lex constitutiva stands
between us and a functional, Roman legal system.

Vale bene,

Cato

> Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis s.p.d.
>
>
>
> Salve;
> gosh he never writes to me *sob*;-)
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> ATS: Me either. Sad, isn¹t it? And when he used to write to me on
> business, he avoided using my (female) name, and just used my initials. I do,
> however, get lots of those spam messages for enhancement of size and
> functioning of a body part I don¹t possess (thank heavens; they seem to be
> very troublesome), as well as for tamer items. There is a Spanish-speaking
> spammer on this list who sends ads about instant messaging, and others on it
> have been implicated in sending spam.
>
>
> Valete,
>
> ATS
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "M.
> Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve!
>> >
>> > Thanks for the warning, but I use Yahoo mail and it has a block
> list.
>> >
>> > Optime vale!
>> >
>> > Agricola
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> Legere_Umbrae <legere_umbrae@>
> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I have recieved an off list e mail from mr keller calling for
>> > members of this list to join RUF.I just want to warn other list
>> > members to watch for the same.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ---------------------------------
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, David Kling (Modianus) wrote:

> There is debate amongst Islamic scholars whether or not People of the Book
> (Christians, Jews and "Sabains") are considered Kafir or not.

Let me expand slightly. Christians and Jews are considered "People of the
Book" because they follow what we call the Old Testament or Talmud&Torah
(respectively). This is a text that can be reconciled with the Koran (and
has some of the same characters), so Christians and Jews are sort of
believers in god. The Sabaeans (followers of Zoroaster) also follow the
teachings of a holy book. What is debated is whether this counts as a
holy book in the same way -- the Zend Avesta is a different text, though
some _ulema_ (=theologians) consider it can be reconciled with the Koran.
If it can't, then the Sabaeans aren't "People of the Book" within the
meaning of the Koranic texts. Since _ulema_ can, like the Schoolmen of
our own past, divide a hair 'twixt south and south-west side, the debate
has been going on for about twelve centuries now and shows no sign of
being resolved for another twelve.

-- Publius Livius Triarius

Thank you for your patience with a beginner!> >

> > Salve, sarcinatrix vel vestifica sine nomine, et salvete,

quirites, socii,

> > peregrinique bonae voluntatis!

I'm afraid my last latin class was in 1974; I'm picking it up again
but as an independent scholar buried in provincial New Zealand
progress will be slow, would you mind translating that for me please?
(I get the gist I think, but would be nice to know how much I have
remembered - or not!)
As to your advice about status, I certainly intend to earn my stripes,
and given the time frame for this event on Friday, plain suits well.
(Although the boy is a close friend of our local Consul).
I take on board your comments about length, however 10yr old boys grow
rapidly and given my experience over the past year I'm not putting
good time and money into something that wont fit next year. I already
have a full set of hand stitched linen tunics which no longer fit and
no junior to hand them on to. I simply went with the width of the
cloth and used the selvedges for neck and hem edges. The wool is
expensive and I intend it to last through to his citizenship rites.
Whereupon he can have new.
Thankyou for the reminder about the bulla - I'll put the time into
getting that right!
Is there a group interested in re-creating Roman clothing (not armour)?

Salve Gai Moravi,

Great point, I guess that the movements of the steppe peoples and Germanic tribes were inevitable. I think that the 'decisive action' would have favored the Romans, who were able to repel most of the malignant barbarian incursions up until the dying days of the empire, when the military was stretched too thin and the economy was in shambles.

However, it is also possible that conquering Gaul actually made it easier for the barbarians to infiltrate and finish off Imperial Rome. The Gaulic tribes (who were slowly transforming into urban, settled states by the time of Caesar) could have acted as a buffer zone to absorb the advancing Germans.

But, also being the devil's advocate, it seems a general rule that the only long lasting states are the large, powerful ones. The small nations are all eaten up by their superpower neighbors. Maybe a smaller, more politically stable Rome would have survived the Germanic tribes, but could it have survived the menacing Parthians or Sassanids in the east?

Optime Vale!
Ap. Vipsanius Ahenobarbus

Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote: Salve Appi Vipsani!

Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:

"Perhaps the Romans should have focused on stabilizing their current internal situation rather than constantly pushing outwards no matter the inward consequences."

Indeed. IIRC didn't Scipio Africanus himself express the opinion that Rome was quite big enough already.

Of course you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that had the Republic/Empire not expanded, into Gaul and Britain for example, the Teutonic invasions that eventually finished off the Western Empire would have happened centuries earlier with the decisive action taking place on the Rubicon or the Padus rather than the Rhine.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

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Salve.
"marcushoratius" mhoratius@... marcushoratius
Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:22 am (PST)
M Moravius Piscinus
Tribunus Plebis
wrote: Salvete Quirites
A question was asked on what changes were made to the Senate
procedures by the vote on Item I in the agenda for the last session
of the Senate. The only real change was the addition of a sentence
to clarify how abstetio votes are to be counted.

>Why the Senatus was rite's Praetor? <

The full senatus consultus on Senate procedures is
provided below.
Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus
Tribunus Plebis
(omissis)
ITEM I: The rules and procedures for debate and the taking of votes
in the Senate.
In accordance with paragraph V.D. of the Constitution of Nova Roma,
the Senatus Consultum de Ratione Senatus is hereby enacted to set
forth the rules and procedures for debate and the taking of votes in
the Senate.
(omissis)
IX. The procedures indicated here shall supersede all other approved
Senate voting procedures including, but not limited to, the
procedure approved on a.d. III Id. Nov. MMDCCLVI 11 Nov 2756.
<<< the "Item" Appius Claudius Priscus was bad reported. A member of Senatus
voted against the rite and the abnormous procedura.
I think that only the Pontifex Maximus can tell the fas of that Senatus
public rite and the "imperium" of that senatusdecretum. In Priscus case of
the capitis deminutio the iudicium was contra Ius and, if you remember it,
this is Res Judicata, so Appius Claudius Priscus is not guilty for our
community, but he was considered immoral by Censores and had an abnormous
Senatus voting he is a public enemy.
I think that Appius Claudius Priscus banned is contra ius, like that
senatusdecretum.
That nota is contra ius and Censores are immoral, because citizens of Nova
Roma need a land (better in Rome than in Iraq...:).
I declare that my amicus, Appius Claudius Priscus, in case of Pontifex
Maximus silence is acting the provocatio ad populum.
He is interdictus and cannot write to this "roman" mailing list, even if he
paid his member tax: who are the persons in charge of this discrimination?
Vale
Appius Claudius Cicero
nomen est omen<

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est postridie Idus Sextilis; haec dies fastus est.

"At last he [Augustus Caesar] broke off his alliance with Marcus
Antonius, which was always doubtful and uncertain, and with difficulty
kept alive by various reconciliations; and the better to show that his
rival had fallen away from conduct becoming a citizen, he had the will
which Antony had left in Rome, naming his children by Cleopatra among
his heirs, opened and read before the people. But when Antony was
declared a public enemy, he sent back to him all his kinsfolk and
friends, among others Gaius Sosius and Titus Domitius, who were still
consuls at the time. He also excused the community of Bononia from
joining in the rally of all Italy to his standards, since they had
been from ancient days dependents of the Antonii. Not long afterwards
he won the sea-fight at Actium, where the contest continued to so late
an hour that the victor passed the night on board. Having gone into
winter quarters at Samos after Actium, he was disturbed by the news of
a mutiny of the troops that he had selected from every division of his
army and sent on to Brundisium after the victory, who demanded their
rewards and discharge; and on his way back to Italy he twice
encountered storms at sea, first between the headlands of the
Peloponnesus and Aetolia, and again off the Ceraunian mountains. In
both places a part of his galleys were sunk, while the rigging of the
ship in which he was sailing was carried away and its rudder broken.
He delayed at Brundisium only twenty-seven days — just long enough to
satisfy all the demands of the soldiers — and then went to Egypt by a
roundabout way through Asia and Syria, laid siege to Alexandria, where
Antony had taken refuge with Cleopatra, and soon took the city.
Although Antony tried to make terms at the eleventh hour, Augustus
forced him to commit suicide, and viewed his corpse. He greatly
desired to save Cleopatra alive for his triumph, and even had Psylli
brought to her, to suck the poison from her wound, since it was
thought that she had died from the bite of an asp. He allowed them
both the honour of burial, and in the same tomb, giving orders that
the mausoleum which they had begun should be finished. The young
Antony, the elder of Fulvia's two sons, he dragged from the image of
the Deified Julius, to which he had fled after many vain entreaties,
and slew him. Caesarion, too, whom Cleopatra fathered on Caesar, he
overtook in his flight, brought back, and put to death. But he spared
the rest of the offspring of Antony and Cleopatra, and afterwards
maintained and reared them according to their several positions, as
carefully as if they were his own kin.

About this time he had the sarcophagus and body of Alexander the Great
brought forth from its shrine, and after gazing on it, showed his
respect by placing upon it a golden crown and strewing it with
flowers; and being then asked whether he wished to see the tomb of the
Ptolemies as well, he replied, "My wish was to see a king, not
corpses." He reduced Egypt to the form of a province, and then to
make it more fruitful and better adapted to supply the city with
grain, he set his soldiers at work cleaning out all the canals into
which the Nile overflows, which in the course of many years had become
choked with mud. To extend the fame of his victory at Actium and
perpetuate his memory, he founded a city called Nicopolis near Actium,
and provided for the celebration of games there every five years;
enlarged the ancient temple of Apollo; and after adorning the site of
the camp which he had occupied with naval trophies, consecrated it to
Neptune and Mars." - Seutonius, "Lives of the Twelve Caesars",
Augustus 17-18

"In the course of the summer Caesar [Augustus, at this time still
known as Octavian] crossed over to Greece and to Italy; and when he
entered the city, not only all the citizens offered sacrifice, as has
been mentioned, but even the consul Valerius Potitus. Caesar, to be
sure, was consul all that year as for the two preceding years, but
Potitus was the successor of Sextus. It was he who publicly and in
person offered sacrifices on behalf of the senate and of the people
upon Caesar's arrival, a thing that had never been done in the case of
any other person. After this Caesar bestowed eulogies and honours upon
his lieutenants, as was customary, and to Agrippa he further granted,
among other distinctions, a dark blue flag in honour of his naval
victory, and he gave gifts to the soldiers; to the people he
distributed four hundred sesterces apiece, first to the men who were
adults, and afterwards to the children because of his nephew
Marcellus. In view of all this, and because he would not accept from
the cities of Italy the gold required for the crowns they had voted
him, and because, furthermore, he not only paid all the debts he
himself owed to others, as has been stated, but also did not insist on
the payment of others' debts to him, the Romans forgot all their
unpleasant experiences and viewed his triumph with pleasure, quite as
if the vanquished had all been foreigners. So vast an amount of
money, in fact, circulated through all parts of the city alike, that
the price of goods rose and loans for which the borrower had been glad
to pay twelve per cent. could now be had for one third that rate. As
for the triumph, Caesar celebrated on the first day his victories over
the Pannonians and Dalmatians, the Iapydes and their neighbours, and
some Germans and Gauls. For Gaius Carrinas had subdued the Morini
and others who had revolted with them, and had repulsed the Suebi, who
had crossed the Rhine to wage war. Not only did Carrinas, therefore,
celebrate the triumph,— and that notwithstanding that his father had
been put to death by Sulla and that he himself along with the others
in like condition had once been debarred from holding office,— but
Caesar also celebrated it, since the credit of the victory properly
belonged to his position as supreme commander. This was the first
day's celebration. On the second day the naval victory at Actium was
commemorated, and on the third the subjugation of Egypt. Now all the
processions proved notable, thanks to the spoils from Egypt,— in such
quantities, indeed, had spoils been gathered there that they sufficed
for all the processions,— but the Egyptian celebration surpassed them
all in costliness and magnificence. Among other features, an effigy
of the dead Cleopatra upon a couch was carried by, so that in a way
she, too, together with the other captives and with her children,
Alexander, also called Helios, and Cleopatra, called also Selene, was
a part of the spectacle and a trophy in the procession. After this
came Caesar, riding into the city behind them all. He did everything
in the customary manner, except that he permitted his fellow-consul
and the other magistrates, contrary to precedent, to follow him along
with the senators who had participated in the victory; for it was
usual for such officials to march in advance and for only the senators
to follow.

After finishing this celebration Caesar dedicated the temple of
Minerva, called also the Chalcidicum, and the Curia Iulia, which had
been built in honour of his father. In the latter he set up the statue
of Victory which is still in existence, thus signifying that it was
from her that he had received the empire. It had belonged to the
people of Tarentum, whence it was now brought to Rome, placed in the
senate-chamber, and decked with the spoils of Egypt. The same course
was followed in the case of the shrine of Julius which was consecrated
at this time, for many of these spoils were placed in it also; and
others were dedicated to Jupiter Capitolinus and to Juno and Minerva,
after all the objects in these temples which were supposed to have
been placed there previously as dedications, or were actually
dedications, had by decree been taken down at this time as defiled.
Thus Cleopatra, though defeated and captured, was nevertheless
glorified, inasmuch as her adornments repose as dedications in our
temples and she herself is seen in gold in the shrine of Venus.

At the consecration of the shrine to Julius there were all kinds of
contests, and the boys of the patricians performed the equestrian
exercise called "Troy," and men of the same rank contended with
chargers, with pairs, and with four-horse teams; furthermore, one
Quintus Vitellius, a senator, fought as a gladiator. Wild beasts and
tame animals were slain in vast numbers, among them a rhinoceros and a
hippopotamus, beasts then seen for the first time in Rome. As regards
the nature of the hippopotamus, it has been described by many and far
more have seen it. The rhinoceros, on the other hand, is in general
somewhat like an elephant, but it has also a horn on its very nose and
has got its name because of this. These beasts, accordingly, were
brought in, and moreover Dacians and Suebi fought in crowds with one
another. The latter are Germans, the former Scythians of a sort. The
Suebi, to be exact, dwell beyond the Rhine (though many people
elsewhere claim their name), and the Dacians on both sides of the
Ister; those of the latter, however, who live on this side of the
river near the country of the Triballi are reckoned in with the
district of Moesia and are called Moesians, except by those living in
the immediate neighbourhood, while those on the other side are called
Dacians and are either a branch of the Getae are Thracians belonging
to the Dacian race that once inhabited Rhodope. Now these Dacians had
before this time sent envoys to Caesar; but when they obtained none of
their requests, they went over to Antony. They proved of no great
assistance to him, however, owing to strife among themselves, and some
who were afterwards captured were now matched against the Suebi. The
whole spectacle lasted many days, as one would expect, and there was
no interruption, even though Caesar fell ill, but it was carried on in
his absence under the direction of others. On one of the days of this
celebration the senators gave banquets in the vestibules of their
several homes; but what the occasion was for their doing this, I do
not know, since it is not recorded." - Cassius Dio, "The Roman
Histories" 51.21-22

On this day in 29 BC, Augustus returned to Rome in triumph after
defeating Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra VII, the Queen of Egypt, at
Actium.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Seutonius, Cassius Dio

Salve Appi Vipsani!

Ah! But now we're dealing in historical uncertainties. It's nice to think that a more compact Rome centred on Italy might have survived but I think the time for that had passed and it had ceased to be a real option. I've always felt that the main cause for the fall of the Republic was the instability resulting from the existence of a standing army, or armies to be precise. If you have an army you need something for them to do, hence expansion which in turn leads to increased corruption in the conquered territories and the political establishment. Having said this, of course, Rome needed a standing army as the Cimbrian invasion had proved. Incidentally this latter event also showed that Celts and Germans could on occasion act together to frightening effect.

Also the Social War was a bit touch and go for a while and if Rome hadn't risen to fill the vacuum perhaps someone else could have and it might not have been the Parthians that posed the real threat.

BTW if you get your Greek Sodalitas up and running I'd be interested.

Best Wishes and Vale!

Caius Moravius

Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
Salve Gai Moravi,

Great point, I guess that the movements of the steppe peoples and Germanic tribes were inevitable. I think that the 'decisive action' would have favored the Romans, who were able to repel most of the malignant barbarian incursions up until the dying days of the empire, when the military was stretched too thin and the economy was in shambles.

However, it is also possible that conquering Gaul actually made it easier for the barbarians to infiltrate and finish off Imperial Rome. The Gaulic tribes (who were slowly transforming into urban, settled states by the time of Caesar) could have acted as a buffer zone to absorb the advancing Germans.

But, also being the devil's advocate, it seems a general rule that the only long lasting states are the large, powerful ones. The small nations are all eaten up by their superpower neighbors. Maybe a smaller, more politically stable Rome would have survived the Germanic tribes, but could it have survived the menacing Parthians or Sassanids in the east?

Optime Vale!
Ap. Vipsanius Ahenobarbus

Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote: Salve Appi Vipsani!

Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:

"Perhaps the Romans should have focused on stabilizing their current internal situation rather than constantly pushing outwards no matter the inward consequences."

Indeed. IIRC didn't Scipio Africanus himself express the opinion that Rome was quite big enough already.

Of course you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that had the Republic/Empire not expanded, into Gaul and Britain for example, the Teutonic invasions that eventually finished off the Western Empire would have happened centuries earlier with the decisive action taking place on the Rubicon or the Padus rather than the Rhine.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
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"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
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> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Iunio quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> L. Iunius Ti. Domitiae Corvinae sal.
>
> Bene facis. I've found a FAQ that states that it's
> possible to take the test early. Whether passing the
> test before the 90 days are up bestows citizenship at
> that point, I've yet to find. How long have you been
> in Nova Roma?
>
>
> ATS: Yes, you may take the test early, but full citizenship requires the
> completion of the 90 day tirocinium. You will find more information in the
> Tabularium, s.v. Lex Equitia de Tirocinio Civium Novorum. In addition, six
> months¹ citizenship and the payment of taxes are required before one may serve
> as an apparitor or magistrate. The tirocinium was instituted because a number
> of new citizens left after about two months, because some joined just before
> elections and voted in elections about which they knew near zero, and because
> we feel that citizens should know something about NR and about ancient Rome
> before being granted citizenship.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
> Rogatrix et scriba Censoris Cn. Equiti Marini
>
>
> --- Susan <sclark935@... <mailto:sclark935%40austin.rr.com> > wrote:
>
>> > They let me jump the gun a little; I get test
>> > anxiety :) I think you still have to wait 90 days,
>> > though, to actually become a citizen.
>> >
>> > TI DOMITIA CORVINA
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Lucius Iunius
>> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:38 PM
>> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Citizenship test
>> >
>> >
>> > Omnibus gratias ago. That doesn't sound too
>> > difficult at all. Do I have to wait the enitre
>> > 90 days, or may I jump the gun a little?
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > L. Iunius
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> Tim Peters
>> > <timemastertim@...> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Salvete,
>>> > >
>>> > > Susan schrieb:
>>>> > > > I took the test not too long ago, mine was
>> > pretty much general information on Roman
>> > culture/history.
>>> > >
>>> > > Yep. Just read the basic info available on the
>> > NR website and you're
>>> > > well prepared. Knowing where to look for
>> > information is more important
>>> > > than knowing it all by heart, really. Go ahead &
>> > good luck!
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Vale!
>>> > > Titus Flavius Calvus
>>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
>> > removed]
>> >
>> >
>
> __________________________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Ap. Vipsanio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve,
> Excellent, some interest! Thank you for responding. If I could only get a
> couple more responses, that would be good enough. If you enjoy Greek history,
> religion, politics, or philosophy and you would like to be part of a related
> sodalitas, please let me know.
>
> ATS: I would be interested in such a sodalitas; among other things, I am
> Latinist and Hellenist of the Sodalitas Musarum, and have had about 8 years of
> classical Greek.
>
> Optime Vale,
> Appius Vipsanius Ahenobarbus
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> Scholastica
>
> Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@... <mailto:iunius_verbosus%40yahoo.com>
> > wrote: Lucius Iunius Ap.
> Vispanio sal.
>
> Please consider my hand to be showing.
>
> Di te conservent.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Ben
> Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete Omnes!
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how much interest there is toward Ancient Greece in
>> this Roman
> nation, but I would like to start a Sodalitas focused on all aspects of the
> classical Helenes.
> Although it might seem inappropriate to have a club centered on a
> civilization not
> Roman, one cannot study and appreciate the Romans without also considering
> the
> Greeks. The contributions of these eastern neighbors are almost endless. The
> Greeks
> heavily influenced Roman literature, art, religion, military, and philosophy
> at one point or
> another. Horace even once famously wrote, "Graecia capta ferum victorem
> cepit et artes
> intulit agresti Latio, captive Greece took captive her savage conqueror and
> brought arts
> into uncultured Latium."
>> > In addition, the two civilizations interacted in military and
>> political fields
> continuously throughout Rome's history. I hope that the Sodalitas Graeciae
> would be able
> to enrich the other Sodalitates and the general citizen body with
> information about their
> influential cousins.
>> > All I need is some response or 'show of hands' from anyone
>> interested in taking part
> in the Sodalitas.
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> > Appius Vipsanius Ahenobarbus
>> >
>> >
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cai Moravi,
Yes, alternative histories can be quite tricky, especially when we take into consideration the importance of single characters and personalities on the whole of history. I guess that my idea about a Gaulic 'buffer zone' was pretty mislead; maybe a massive Gaulic Empire would have organized itself had the Romans not intervened, maybe some other event would have occured to set off modern speculation.

Your point about the dual destructive and protective nature of the Roman army is strengthened when we consider that it was Marius' new recruitment system which ultimately gave the Romans enough troops to fight off the Cimbri, but also turned the legions into the private armies of men like Sulla, Caesar, and Pompey.

In the end, it might have been Rome's large size that allowed it to last so long because it had so much land to loose. But if we are considering the political system of the Republic more important than land and glory of autocratic empire, then perhaps we cannot expect a system as inefficient and unstable as a Republic to last very long or to aquire much land in the long run.
---
I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've prepared a charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would you be interested in taking a look at it?

Optime Vale!
Ap. Vipsanius



Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote: Salve Appi Vipsani!

Ah! But now we're dealing in historical uncertainties. It's nice to think that a more compact Rome centred on Italy might have survived but I think the time for that had passed and it had ceased to be a real option. I've always felt that the main cause for the fall of the Republic was the instability resulting from the existence of a standing army, or armies to be precise. If you have an army you need something for them to do, hence expansion which in turn leads to increased corruption in the conquered territories and the political establishment. Having said this, of course, Rome needed a standing army as the Cimbrian invasion had proved. Incidentally this latter event also showed that Celts and Germans could on occasion act together to frightening effect.

Also the Social War was a bit touch and go for a while and if Rome hadn't risen to fill the vacuum perhaps someone else could have and it might not have been the Parthians that posed the real threat.

BTW if you get your Greek Sodalitas up and running I'd be interested.

Best Wishes and Vale!

Caius Moravius

Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
Salve Gai Moravi,

Great point, I guess that the movements of the steppe peoples and Germanic tribes were inevitable. I think that the 'decisive action' would have favored the Romans, who were able to repel most of the malignant barbarian incursions up until the dying days of the empire, when the military was stretched too thin and the economy was in shambles.

However, it is also possible that conquering Gaul actually made it easier for the barbarians to infiltrate and finish off Imperial Rome. The Gaulic tribes (who were slowly transforming into urban, settled states by the time of Caesar) could have acted as a buffer zone to absorb the advancing Germans.

But, also being the devil's advocate, it seems a general rule that the only long lasting states are the large, powerful ones. The small nations are all eaten up by their superpower neighbors. Maybe a smaller, more politically stable Rome would have survived the Germanic tribes, but could it have survived the menacing Parthians or Sassanids in the east?

Optime Vale!
Ap. Vipsanius Ahenobarbus

Brutus <crwbanmor@...> wrote: Salve Appi Vipsani!

Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:

"Perhaps the Romans should have focused on stabilizing their current internal situation rather than constantly pushing outwards no matter the inward consequences."

Indeed. IIRC didn't Scipio Africanus himself express the opinion that Rome was quite big enough already.

Of course you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that had the Republic/Empire not expanded, into Gaul and Britain for example, the Teutonic invasions that eventually finished off the Western Empire would have happened centuries earlier with the decisive action taking place on the Rubicon or the Padus rather than the Rhine.

Vale!

Caius Moravius Brutus

"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

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Salve Romans

I am currently colleting information for a Roman related research
project. I would like to enlist the help of anyone on this list
would would like to assist me with it.

What I need are the names of the leading scholars, academic or
otherwise from each country represented on this list. It can be one
or twenty, that is up to you.

This would include but would not limited to historians ,
archaeologists, numismatists, in other words experts on all aspects
of Roman civilization from her prehistory until today. If you can
include their current mailing address that would be great.

Please send the information to me at spqr753@...

Thanks for the help.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

> Salve, vestifica sine nomine, et salvete, quirites, socii, peregrinique bonae
> voluntatis!
>
>
>
> Thank you for your patience with a beginner!> >
>>> > > Salve, sarcinatrix vel vestifica sine nomine, et salvete,
> quirites, socii,
>>> > > peregrinique bonae voluntatis!
> I'm afraid my last latin class was in 1974; I'm picking it up again
> but as an independent scholar buried in provincial New Zealand
> progress will be slow, would you mind translating that for me please?
>
> ATS: Salve, plural, salvete, means greetings or hello. Sarcinatrix and
> vestifica are words meaning seamstress, sine nomine means nameless, for you
> have not given your name, quirites are Roman citizens of Nova Roma and ancient
> Rome, socii are allies, typically ex-citizens of NR, peregrini are non-citizen
> visitors, bonae voluntatis means of good will, for not all on this large list
> are of good will, especially not toward me or some others here. S.P.D. means
> salutem plurimam dicit, which translates as something like sends greetings,
> wishes greatest health (to).
>
> (I get the gist I think, but would be nice to know how much I have
> remembered - or not!)
> As to your advice about status, I certainly intend to earn my stripes,
> and given the time frame for this event on Friday, plain suits well.
>
> ATS: That is also the wisest choice.
>
> (Although the boy is a close friend of our local Consul).
>
> ATS: Not one of Nova Roma¹s however; ours are both North American: one
> Canadian, one American.
>
> I take on board your comments about length, however 10yr old boys grow
> rapidly and given my experience over the past year I'm not putting
> good time and money into something that wont fit next year.
>
> ATS: Yes, they do tend to shoot up, don¹t they? Perhaps the solution is
> to do a huge hem, with an inner one for later. If there¹s enough fabric, you
> could possibly even double the entire thing...not that that would improve its
> drapery, or its comfort in hot weather. Roman clothing, however, was less
> concerned about the beauty of drapery than was Greek clothing (with the single
> exception of the toga), so you might be able to get away with this.
>
>
> I already
> have a full set of hand stitched linen tunics which no longer fit and
> no junior to hand them on to. I simply went with the width of the
> cloth and used the selvedges for neck and hem edges. The wool is
> expensive and I intend it to last through to his citizenship rites.
> Whereupon he can have new.
>
> ATS: Some of my outfits are rather long and wide, too, but then I can get
> away with this...and have had to piece some of the Greek khitones, as the
> fabric was too narrow (I used three panels, with one split lengthwise).
> Again, perhaps the solution is to double the fabric‹the stuff costs enough
> that one shouldn¹t waste it‹and simply re-do things as needed. Greek
> clothing, both male and female, could be double girt, which made it easier to
> take up excess length; male deities, charioteers, and musicians, inter alios,
> wore the long khiton otherwise associated with women, and Artemis wore the
> short one typically associated with young men, as did female athletes. The
> Romans, however, were much more fussy about signaling gender, status, etc., in
> their attire, so were much more rigid as regards such matters. I¹m not sure
> whether Roman women ever used a double girdle, but males certainly do not seem
> to have done so. When ungirt, the short khiton or the Roman men¹s tunica
> should reach about to the calf (depending on the body build of the wearer);
> when girt, it should be above the knee. The ungirt women¹s khiton was at
> least one foot longer than the body of the wearer, and often considerably
> longer; multiple girdles took up the extra length.
>
>
> Thankyou for the reminder about the bulla - I'll put the time into
> getting that right!
>
> ATS: You¹re welcome!
>
>
> Is there a group interested in re-creating Roman clothing (not armour)?
>
> ATS: The reenactment legions sometimes have socii and sociae (affiliates,
> usually of the civilian sort) who do recreate ancient Roman civilian clothing.
> One of the best in the US (if not THE best, is Legio XX of Maryland, whose
> extensive website may be accessed at <http://www.larp.com/legioxx> Another
> good source is legio XXIV: <http://www.legionxxiv.org> This is also an
> extensive site, though more oriented toward the armor, if memory serves. I
> believe that Legio III in Nova Britannia also has a civilian contingent; I¹m
> not sure about those in Europe, which seem to be all boys in armor, and know
> absolutely zero about those in your part of the world‹except that legio XX
> recommends civilian footgear from somewhere in Australia, which is a tad far
> for me. I would like some proper footgear, but can¹t buy it at our events,
> though men¹s caligae are readily available.
>
> There is also some information on this topic on the NR website...or at
> least there was before being converted to the Wikipedia. Another possibility
> is the RAT board (Roman Army Talk); there is also Greek Army Talk (not sure of
> the exact name), and a civilian Roman list affiliated with RAT.
>
> We aren¹t a reenactment organization, as I mentioned earlier, but we do
> have reenactors among us...
>
> Would you mind sharing your name? Here we usually append a greeting and
> often a closing, or signature, to our posts.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scholastica
Thank you for your continued patience with a beginner!

> sine nomine means nameless, for you
> > have not given your name, > > Would you mind sharing your

name? Here we usually append a greeting and

> > often a closing, or signature, to our posts

Well I would...
but it appears that new citizenships are suspended until September
1st, so my attempts at naming myself await approval!
Tentatively and by no means definate
Appia Tullia Natta

I suspect the problems of the standing army were not due to its existence
but the way it was called into existence in the first place. From its
beginning the army was not necessarily loyal to and answerable to the Senate
and People of Rome so much as it was loyal to its general. If had been
possible to make the army more of a modern army perhaps...

But then again these games can be played in circles forever. Fun though,
yes?
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 8/14/06, Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cai Moravi,
> Yes, alternative histories can be quite tricky, especially when we take
> into consideration the importance of single characters and personalities on
> the whole of history. I guess that my idea about a Gaulic 'buffer zone' was
> pretty mislead; maybe a massive Gaulic Empire would have organized itself
> had the Romans not intervened, maybe some other event would have occured to
> set off modern speculation.
>
> Your point about the dual destructive and protective nature of the Roman
> army is strengthened when we consider that it was Marius' new recruitment
> system which ultimately gave the Romans enough troops to fight off the
> Cimbri, but also turned the legions into the private armies of men like
> Sulla, Caesar, and Pompey.
>
> In the end, it might have been Rome's large size that allowed it to last
> so long because it had so much land to loose. But if we are considering the
> political system of the Republic more important than land and glory of
> autocratic empire, then perhaps we cannot expect a system as inefficient and
> unstable as a Republic to last very long or to aquire much land in the long
> run.
> ---
> I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've prepared a
> charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would you be
> interested in taking a look at it?
>
> Optime Vale!
> Ap. Vipsanius
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, Ap. Tullia, et salvete, omnes!
>
>
>
> Salve Scholastica
> Thank you for your continued patience with a beginner!
>
> ATS: We are patient; there is a lot to learn.
>
>> > sine nomine means nameless, for you
>>> > > have not given your name, > > Would you mind sharing your
> name? Here we usually append a greeting and
>>> > > often a closing, or signature, to our posts
> Well I would...
> but it appears that new citizenships are suspended until September
> 1st, so my attempts at naming myself await approval!
>
> ATS: August is a month in which many people, particularly Europeans, take
> vacations, for school is still in session in July. It¹s also the month during
> which our European citizens hold Conventus, the gathering of all of our
> citizens who can make it to the chosen site. Some of us and I have just
> returned from Conventus via the joys of Sing-Sing airport (er, Heathrow). The
> censor¹s office has to have scribae capable of handling the major world
> languages, so several of our scribae are European, and disappear in August.
> Thus we have to suspend new citizen applications until September, though
> processing of existing applicants continues with the scribae who are still
> around. One of our Spanish scribae and our Portuguese scriba are still
> around...not sure about the others.
>
>
> Tentatively and by no means definate
> Appia Tullia Natta
>
> ATS: Your chosen praenomen and nomen, Appia Tullia, are fine. The cognomen,
> however, does not appear in my newer unabridged Latin dictionary, but is
> listed as a variant spelling of nacca, meaning fuller, or Roman dry cleaner,
> in the older unabridged dictionary. As this is an occupational term, it
> should be fine if you like it, but perhaps the spelling nacca should be the
> one chosen, as that is the preferred spelling. If censor Marinus agrees, one
> of the scribae here might be able to process your application now...a couple
> are still around. However, it is not necessary to have a Roman name; some who
> post, as well as many who do not, are peregrini, visitors, who do not have
> Roman names.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The army was initially loyal to the Senate and people because it was a citizen militia rather than a professional army; that is, the citizens were drafted into the army for a war and were expected to provide their own armor, weapons, and food. There was no pay other than the spoils of war.

But this system could not provide enough troops for the large empire at the time of Marius. Thus, he transformed the system into a professional one; citizens volunteered and were payed for their services. However, it was the general, not the senate, who was expected to pay the troops. Perhaps this was the greatest flaw-- the soldiers became loyal to their generals rather than to the SPQR.

If it would have been possible to have the Senate pay the soldiers' wages or to give them land, then maybe the instability would have been somewhat curtailed. They might have ended up with a more 'modern army.'

But I agree, the discussion could be endless, especially if we don't have a focus; it is a lot of fun though!

Optime Vale,
Ap. Vipsanius

"P. Dominus Antonius" <marsvigilia@...> wrote: I suspect the problems of the standing army were not due to its existence
but the way it was called into existence in the first place. From its
beginning the army was not necessarily loyal to and answerable to the Senate
and People of Rome so much as it was loyal to its general. If had been
possible to make the army more of a modern army perhaps...

But then again these games can be played in circles forever. Fun though,
yes?
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 8/14/06, Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cai Moravi,
> Yes, alternative histories can be quite tricky, especially when we take
> into consideration the importance of single characters and personalities on
> the whole of history. I guess that my idea about a Gaulic 'buffer zone' was
> pretty mislead; maybe a massive Gaulic Empire would have organized itself
> had the Romans not intervened, maybe some other event would have occured to
> set off modern speculation.
>
> Your point about the dual destructive and protective nature of the Roman
> army is strengthened when we consider that it was Marius' new recruitment
> system which ultimately gave the Romans enough troops to fight off the
> Cimbri, but also turned the legions into the private armies of men like
> Sulla, Caesar, and Pompey.
>
> In the end, it might have been Rome's large size that allowed it to last
> so long because it had so much land to loose. But if we are considering the
> political system of the Republic more important than land and glory of
> autocratic empire, then perhaps we cannot expect a system as inefficient and
> unstable as a Republic to last very long or to aquire much land in the long
> run.
> ---
> I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've prepared a
> charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would you be
> interested in taking a look at it?
>
> Optime Vale!
> Ap. Vipsanius
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius C. Equitio sal.

> I agree absolutely. The lex constitutiva should *not* give unhistoric powers to historic magistracies, and I would support an amendment of the lex constitutiva to remove this. But the fact remains that, at the present time, the curule aediles possess imperium, whether or not you like it. <

I agree. The inconsistency will only cause problems, of course, if the aediles curules try to use their imperium. If they refrain from using it, then their possession of it will be entirely academic and no real problem will arise.

The best solution, as you say, would be to amend the lex constitutiva. In the mean time let us act as though it had already been amended.

Salve Appi Claudi Cicero

If I understand your post correctly, are you writing on behalf of
Appius Claudius Priscus, and is it he who is invoking his right to
provocatio ad populum?

Appius Claudius Priscus retains the right to provocatio ad populum and
he may invoke it if he so chooses. He has been told about this
before, by myself and by others. He just continues to fail to do so
properly. Have him write to the Tribuni Plebis directly if that is
what he wants to do.

Vale
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
Tribunus Plebis

Just been reading your ongoing debate and it looks good fun. If you
don't mind if I join in I have a few points for you to consider if
you wish?

Firstly it is very easy to think of the Roman army as a purely Roman
thing. After all most of the ancient writers give a very biased
views of the empire they were citizens of, naturally. The facts are
that Rome as a city state in the 1st century BC had a population of
less than a million and historians and archaeologist believe that
figure may even flatter the population of Rome and its surrounding
countryside. As you quite rightly pointed out when you take in the
property qualification to serve in the legions of the pre- Marian
armies then that added to a rather small total male population does
not leave you with a lot of men able to serve in the legions
especially when you consider the extent of the lands under Roman
control.

The ancient writers tell us that during the Hannibalic crisis Rome
put its largest ever army into the field some 90,000 men at Cannae.
Not a lot really so how did they maintain such a large empire?
Allies! The bulk of Roman armies from the 2nd century BC onwards
comprised mainly of allies and auxiliaries, see PA Brunt's book,
Italian Manpower. These allies allowed Rome's armies to re stock
year after year. This can be seen with the breaking point in 89BC
with the advent of the Social War in which the allies fed up of re
stocking Rome's armies with no rights to property or citizenship,
just the "reward" of Rome's protection. This Marius saw and tried to
put right with his military reforms however he was checked from
going the whole hog by the very protective Senate. After all Marius
himself was an outsider who had to fight for recognition. So I
believe Rome's great military strength came from its willingness to
absorb and adapt and owes a great deal more to its Italian allies
than the Romano- centric sources let on.
Vale: please feel free to reply especially if you have other view on
this. hope you didn't mind me butting in :0) G. Ulpius Silur.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ben Radcliffe
<appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:

>
> The army was initially loyal to the Senate and people because it

was a citizen militia rather than a professional army; that is, the
citizens were drafted into the army for a war and were expected to
provide their own armor, weapons, and food. There was no pay other
than the spoils of war.

>
> But this system could not provide enough troops for the large

empire at the time of Marius. Thus, he transformed the system into
a professional one; citizens volunteered and were payed for their
services. However, it was the general, not the senate, who was
expected to pay the troops. Perhaps this was the greatest flaw--
the soldiers became loyal to their generals rather than to the
SPQR.

>
> If it would have been possible to have the Senate pay the

soldiers' wages or to give them land, then maybe the instability
would have been somewhat curtailed. They might have ended up with a
more 'modern army.'

>
> But I agree, the discussion could be endless, especially if we

don't have a focus; it is a lot of fun though!

>
> Optime Vale,
> Ap. Vipsanius
>
> "P. Dominus Antonius" <marsvigilia@...>

wrote: I suspect
the problems of the standing army were not due to its existence

> but the way it was called into existence in the first place.

From its

> beginning the army was not necessarily loyal to and answerable

to the Senate

> and People of Rome so much as it was loyal to its general. If

had been

> possible to make the army more of a modern army perhaps...
>
> But then again these games can be played in circles forever.

Fun though,

> yes?
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.
>
> On 8/14/06, Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cai Moravi,
> > Yes, alternative histories can be quite tricky, especially

when we take

> > into consideration the importance of single characters and

personalities on

> > the whole of history. I guess that my idea about a

Gaulic 'buffer zone' was

> > pretty mislead; maybe a massive Gaulic Empire would have

organized itself

> > had the Romans not intervened, maybe some other event would

have occured to

> > set off modern speculation.
> >
> > Your point about the dual destructive and protective nature of

the Roman

> > army is strengthened when we consider that it was Marius' new

recruitment

> > system which ultimately gave the Romans enough troops to fight

off the

> > Cimbri, but also turned the legions into the private armies of

men like

> > Sulla, Caesar, and Pompey.
> >
> > In the end, it might have been Rome's large size that allowed

it to last

> > so long because it had so much land to loose. But if we are

considering the

> > political system of the Republic more important than land and

glory of

> > autocratic empire, then perhaps we cannot expect a system as

inefficient and

> > unstable as a Republic to last very long or to aquire much

land in the long

> > run.
> > ---
> > I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've

prepared a

> > charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would

you be

> > interested in taking a look at it?
> >
> > Optime Vale!
> > Ap. Vipsanius
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Absolutely. The reforms of Marius were essential to provide the army Rome
needed, but making it his personal Army set precedents for some real long
term instability. This unstable army loyalty did not simply affect the
Republic, but continued to cause problems into the Imperial period.

Perhaps Marius was simply motivated to have his own army, or perhaps he
could not get the Senate to pay for it. I could easily see that a
conservative group of old men would balk at funding his radical ideas,
particularly since by allowing any Roman to enlist these reforms could seem
to undermine the system of rank and privilege. Of course by not paying for
it, they undermined the Senate completely.

--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 8/15/06, Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
>
> The army was initially loyal to the Senate and people because it was a
> citizen militia rather than a professional army; that is, the citizens were
> drafted into the army for a war and were expected to provide their own
> armor, weapons, and food. There was no pay other than the spoils of war.
>
> But this system could not provide enough troops for the large empire at
> the time of Marius. Thus, he transformed the system into a professional one;
> citizens volunteered and were payed for their services. However, it was the
> general, not the senate, who was expected to pay the troops. Perhaps this
> was the greatest flaw-- the soldiers became loyal to their generals rather
> than to the SPQR.
>
> If it would have been possible to have the Senate pay the soldiers' wages
> or to give them land, then maybe the instability would have been somewhat
> curtailed. They might have ended up with a more 'modern army.'
>
> But I agree, the discussion could be endless, especially if we don't have
> a focus; it is a lot of fun though!
>
> Optime Vale,
> Ap. Vipsanius
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve.
"marcushoratius" mhoratius@... marcushoratius
Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:09 pm (PST) wrote:
Salve Senator Maximus
True he did not say he was a magistrate. He said that he was a
citizen of Nova Roma and coupled that by saying that Nova Roma owned
land in Culbertson County, Texas, which could have suggested that he
had some approval for his plan from Nova Roma magistrates.
(omissis)
I do not think it
serves either Appius Claudius or Nova Roma well to continue debating
these matters on the public lists. Any evidence against Appius
Claudius cannot be displayed here before a tribunal is held.
Likewise, and for the same reason, what was presented to the Senate
cannot be fully displayed here. We shall have to await a tribunal to
see the evidence, and we should leave it at that for the time being.
Vale optime
M Moravius Piscinus
<<ACC: where is that land in Texas? can we use it? Should that tribunal act
against Senatus (and its decretum) and Censores (and their nota) or aganist
Appius Claudius Priscus (and his giulty not human being you were talking
about all those times)?
Contra Ius contra Fas.
Vale.
Appius Claudius Priscus
Nomen est omen>>

Re: (Land)
Posted by: "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis" pjtuloup@... pjtuloup
Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:22 am (PST)
Salvete Omnes,
(omissis)
However, it is clear that such an ambition is out of our capacities
because at the same time of the cost of such an operation and weakness
of our resources.
<<<ACC: What you are not able to do is what others can do.>>>
(omissis) We already had, in the past, better than a land, lands, and even
countries, and even a good part of a continent: Europe! Our historical
grounds are there and they must be reconquered. We do not have to beg
for a small isolated space whereas we are in charge to rebuild
polytheist and Roman Europe which are our own single roots.
<<<ACC: But if "we" cannot build a little Roma in Rome, how could "we"
reconquer Europe?>>>>
(omissis)
Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Diribitor
<Vale Appius Claudius Cicero>

hey guys i know i am so poor i can not pay teaes and you all hate me
BUT why can I not post here to the list I am last time I was not
iunder notia.
so what i wanted to talk about is that we got things at "novaroma.org
that needs to be fixed pls see below.
thbis info came from
Generated by www.DNSreport.com at 16:06:26 GMT on 15 Aug 2006.

FAIL Open DNS servers ERROR: One or more of your nameservers reports
that it is an open DNS server. This usually means that anyone in the
world can query it for domains it is not authoritative for (it is
possible that the DNS server advertises that it does recursive lookups
when it does not, but that shouldn't happen). This can cause an
excessive load on your DNS server. Also, it is strongly discouraged to
have a DNS server be both authoritative for your domain and be
recursive (even if it is not open), due to the potential for cache
poisoning (with no recursion, there is no cache, and it is impossible
to poison it). Also, the bad guys could use your DNS server as part of
an attack, by forging their IP address. Problem record(s) are:

Server 66.77.28.202 reports that it will do recursive lookups. [test]
Server 66.77.28.200 reports that it will do recursive lookups. [test]

WARN Acceptance of abuse address WARNING: One or more of your
mailservers does not accept mail to abuse@.... Mailservers
are expected by RFC2142 to accept mail to abuse.

mail.cynico.net's abuse response:

>>> RCPT TO:<abuse@...>

<<< 550 <abuse@...>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in virtual alias table

we are listed at
http://rfc-ignorant.org/tools/lookup.php?domain=novaroma.org




Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis
House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...

Salve.
Please, remember I wrote the first message of "Re: Appius Claudius Cicero vs
novaroma's politicians (Land)".It was Appius Claudius Cicero vs novaroma's
politicians.

"Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly" mjk@...
miguelkelly15
Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:52 pm (PST)
wrote:
Salvete omnes,
Leaving Priscus for a moment, I do see the subject of land and
temples come up once and a while.
We need not risk having our heads so slopply sawed off in an
unprofessional manner on the internet when we occupy a buffer zone
in Iraq. NR has no modern trained army or enough people to protect
ourselves. Even worse to these Muslim states than Christian or
Jewish infidels are pagans. Try and imagine their rage when they
see, " The gods of Olympus are calling..."
On a more serious note, I'll remind our citizens again that even an
ugly worn down old hovel in metropolitan North America costs over
200 K (I cannot imagine prices in Western Europe)these days and
barring a big economic recession things are only going to go higher.
Only about 10% of our 2000 memebers seem to have been tax payers
over the last 4 years I have been here. At $10.00 a shot that brings
in 2 - 3000 dollars a year, well out of the range of the property
and building markets. If 2000 souls could send 10 - 100 dollars per
year we might come nearer to realizing our dreams but until tax
paying attitudes change, it is rather a waste of time and emotional
energy to contemplate land and building purchases.
Regards,
Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
"Priscus and all citizens of Nova Roma need a land, a little garden,
a domus, a pax place, our city in the world, to be a real nation or
an ex micronation; we'ld get a pantheon, a forum, a common office
somewhere and A.C. Priscus tried to obtain a land for Nova Roma
asking to U.S.A. government, his natural born (killers: Bush and
Stone...d;)o) state.
It was not a joke: every citizen should try to make our community
grow up and be rich getting lands for our templum, forum, etc. (bona
mores)".

If you have a land somewhere, because someone asked for and obtain it, if
you and all other citizen of Roma that want to can use it, you have a
colonia of Respublica, with a Pantheon, a Forum, etc.. May be Appius
Claudius Priscus would go to Iran or Iraq and build it, it's ok, isn't it? I
would like to buy a cheap land in Roma for me and other citizens who want to
have their sacra res there, pay the duty tax and stay in Roma. I don't need
to be authorized, I just want you to know the project of a real new ancient
Roma in Rome.
Vale
Appius Claudius Cicero

Salve.
"A. Tullia Scholastica" fororom@... flaviascholastica
Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:49 pm (PST) wrote:
Re: Appius Claudius Priscus

> Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis s.p.d.
>
> Salve;
> gosh he never writes to me *sob*;-)
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> ATS: Me either. Sad, isn¹t it? And when he used to write to me on
> business, he avoided using my (female) name, and just used my initials.

<<<ACC: May be he didn't want to be rude and dangerous. In Roma there
weren't females magistrates, I suppose it should have been the same in Nova
Roma; a lot of people thinks that women should be protected yet (may be they
didn't meet that canadian lady truck drivers I met once), some of them can
think that it's better if a woman is not their judge because of some
biological prejudice, that's why there are a lot of laws that help women.
How should we write to you to be polite, A.(ppia?) Tullia Scholastica? If
you were on business with Priscus, you can tell us if he was a damage for
you>>>

I do,

> however, get lots of those spam messages for enhancement of size and
> functioning of a body part I don¹t possess (thank heavens; they seem to be
> very troublesome), as well as for tamer items. There is a Spanish-speaking
> spammer on this list who sends ads about instant messaging, and others on

it

> have been implicated in sending spam.

<<<ACC: I receive those bloody spamming messages too. I think that those
criminals, if they are citizens or not, should be banned, not Priscus>>>
Valete,
ATS
<Vale. Appius Claudius Cicero.
Nomen est omen>

Hmmm.
I think anyone trying to reestablish a pagan Rome in Iraq would soon be as
dead as the ancient Romans.
Gads. And the Arabs thought they hated the Israelis.
--

>|P. Dominus Antonius|<

Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.

On 8/15/06, Claudio Guzzo <claudio.guzzo@...> wrote:
>
> May be Appius Claudius Priscus would go to Iran or Iraq and build it,
> it's ok, isn't it?
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

A new Comitia Centuriata list has been established for Nova Roman
citizens. Membership on this list is limited to citizens and
membership must be approved. This list will be used for the
discussion of issues after the convening of the Comitia Centuriata
as outlined in the Nova Roma constitution.

Voting within Comitia Centuriata will still take place under the
system established by the presiding magistrate and the Magister
Aranearius and not on this list.

All citizens are encouraged to join at

NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.

> How should we write to you to be polite, A.(ppia?) Tullia Scholastica? <

The abbreviation "A." always stands for "Aulus" or "Aula", and never for anything else.

The abbreviation for "Appius" is always "Ap.", and never anything else.

Therefore A. Tullia Scholastica is Aula Tullia Scholastica, I am Aulus Apollonius Cordus, and you are Appius Claudius Cicero.

Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on telling us how we should run our republic.

Salve Appi Vipsani!

You write:-
"I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've prepared a charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would you be interested in taking a look at it?"

Yes. Although I've read a number of plays etc., in translation I feel my overall knowledge of Greek culture is somewhat lacking. This seems like a good opportunity to put this right!

Vale!

Caius Moravius






"It's all right,lads: the chickens say it's going to be all right..."

The Emperor Claudius

---------------------------------
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVIII Kalendas Septembris; haec dies fastus est.

"Nabopolassar, the King of Justice, the Shepherd called by Marduk, the
one created by Ninmenna (Queen of Queens), the one to whom Nabu and
Tashmetu stretch out their hand, the Prince beloved of Ninshiku.

When I was young, although the son of a nobody, I constantly sought
out the temples of Nabu and Marduk, my patrons. My mind was
preoccupied with the establishment of their orders and the complete
performance of their rites. My attention was directed to justice and
equity. Shazu, the lord who understands the hearts of the gods of
heaven and the underworld, who constantly observes the deeds of
humanity, perceived my inner thoughts and raised me, the client who
was anonymous among the people, to a high status in the country of my
birth. He called me to the sovereignty over the land and the people.
He caused a benevolent protective spirit to walk at my side. He made
everything I did succeed. He made Nergal, the strongest of the gods,
to march at my side; he slaughtered my enemies, dropped my enemies.
The Assyrian ruled Akkad due to divine anger and oppressed the
inhabitants with his heavy yoke.

But I—the weak one, the powerless one, the one who constantly
seeks the Lord of lords—removed them from Akkad and cause (the
Babylonians) to throw off their yoke with the mighty power of Nabu and
Marduk, my patrons.
At that time, Nabopolassar, King of Babylon, who pleases Nabu and
Marduk, I, for Imgur-Enlil—Babylon's great fortification wall; the
original boundary-marker from antiquity; the soild border as ancient
as time itself; the lofty mountain peak that rivals the heavens; the
mighty shield that locks the entrance to the hostile lands; the
Igigi's wide enclosure; the Anunnaki's spacious courtyard; heaven's
staircase; the ladder to the underworld; the station of Lugalirra and
Meslamtae; the outdoor shrine of Ishtar the Great Lady; the place of
the throwing stick of Dagan the Hero; the camp enclosure of the
Warrior Ninurta; the temple of Anu and Enlil's divine protection; the
shrine artfully designed by Ea, the Lord of Eridu; the great gods'
fortification ground; whose foundations the Igigi and Anunnaki had
established in the jubilation of their hearts; which they had
skillfully carried out and raised to it peak; which had weakened and
collapsed because of age; whose walls had been taken away because of
rain and deluge; whose foundations had heaped up and accumulated into
a mound of ruins—I mustered Enlil's, Shamash, and Marduk's troops. I
had them use the hoe and imposed the corvée basket on them. From the
bank of the Arhtu canal, on the lower side near the Urash gate, I
removed its accumulated debris, surveyed andexamined its old
foundations, and laid its brickwork in the original place. On the edge
of the underworld, I established its base. I surrounded the east bank
with a mighty mountainous belt." - Nabopolassar Cylinder, late 7th
century BC (discovered c. AD 1921), trans. Al-Rawi (AD 1988) and
Bealieu (AD 2000)

On this day in 605 BC, Nabopolassar, the first king of the so-called
"Neo-Babylonian" Empire, died. He rose into revolt against the
Assyrian Empire (which had ruled Babylon for the previous 200 years)
in 626 BC, after the last really powerful Assyrian king,
Assur-bani-pal, died in 627 BC. The weakened Assyrians couldn't
resist his power and that of the Medes, who combined to sack the
Assyrian capital of Nineveh in 612 BC. Nabopolassar was left in
control of Nineveh and destroyed the remnants of the Assyrian Empire
in 609 BC.

Nabopolassar waged war against Egypt from 610 BC until 605 BC. In 605
BC his son Nebuchadrezzar won the Battle of Carchemish shortly before
Nabopolassar died. Nebuchadrezzar succeeded him to the throne of Babylon.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Al-Rawi, F. N. J. "Nabopolassar's Restoration Work on the Wall
Imgur-Enlil at Babylon" (1985); Beaulieu, Paul-Alain, "Nabopolassar's
Restoration of Imgur-Enlil, the Inner Defensive Wall of Babylon" (2000)

Salve Appi Cicero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Claudio Guzzo"
<claudio.guzzo@...> wrote:

>
><snipped>
> <<ACC: where is that land in Texas? can we use it? Should that

tribunal act

> against Senatus (and its decretum) and Censores (and their nota)

or aganist

> Appius Claudius Priscus (and his giulty not human being you were

talking

> about all those times)?
> Contra Ius contra Fas.
> Vale.
> Appius Claudius Priscus
> Nomen est omen>>
>

If you go to the Nova Roma website you can learn more on the ager
publica http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Ager_Publicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
I didn't understand the rest of your comments.

Vale
Piscinus

M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
ROTFL..! how do I say that in Latin Corde? You are too much with
that dry British wit. Vivat Britannos.
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on

telling us how we should run our republic.

>

I was going to suggest "flagrare" but I don't know how many people are familiar with "That 70s show".

Agrippa

Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
ROTFL..! how do I say that in Latin Corde? You are too much with
that dry British wit. Vivat Britannos.
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on

telling us how we should run our republic.

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Romani
Salve, Ap. Tullia,

> >Your chosen praenomen and nomen, Appia Tullia, are fine.

Istud bonum (how am I doing?)

> >The cognomen, however, does not appear in my newer unabridged Latin

dictionary, but is listed as a variant spelling of nacca, meaning
fuller, or Roman dry cleaner,
Cleaner???? Nooooooo!
How about Corylia?
If censor Marinus agrees, one of the scribae here might be able to
process your application now...a couple are still around.
Gratias ago ego accipio.
BTW went to very interesting talk by Daniel Ogden last night covering
material in his lastest book - Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in Greek
and Roman Worlds.
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ClassicalStudies/AncientHistory/~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTEzNTc1Ng==
History is certainly neither dull nor dusty!
In muneris
Anne

Salvete Omnes,

I was wondering if one of our resident Latin scholars would be willing
to help me with a small task. Literally a two or three word phrase, but
I want to get it right.

Please email me offlist at germanicus at goldenfuture dot net.

Thank you.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae

Salvete,

after returning from a trip across Europe, I finally got back and
uploaded the pictures from the Roman Market Days that took place a
month ago. The pictures, hosted on the Sodalitas Musarum website, can
be found here: http://www.freewebtown.com/musarum/Market.html If anyone
wants to add captions, e-mail them to me privately and I can add them.

Valete!
Decimus Claudius Aquilius

Salve,
I don't mind another voice at all, especially considering my limited knowledge of this subject! If anything, more people should be involved in these discussions.

About the Social War, I have to wonder whether it was Marius' reforms or the granting of citizenship to all Italians which ultimately prevented further rebellion by the allies. Perhaps the military reform was unnecessary if the Italians were sated enough by the rights of Roman citizenship.

However, do you think that there might have been detrimental limitations to the size of an army which drew only from the propertied classes, even if there was all of Italy to draw from?

silur007 <silur007@...> wrote: Just been reading your ongoing debate and it looks good fun. If you
don't mind if I join in I have a few points for you to consider if
you wish?

Firstly it is very easy to think of the Roman army as a purely Roman
thing. After all most of the ancient writers give a very biased
views of the empire they were citizens of, naturally. The facts are
that Rome as a city state in the 1st century BC had a population of
less than a million and historians and archaeologist believe that
figure may even flatter the population of Rome and its surrounding
countryside. As you quite rightly pointed out when you take in the
property qualification to serve in the legions of the pre- Marian
armies then that added to a rather small total male population does
not leave you with a lot of men able to serve in the legions
especially when you consider the extent of the lands under Roman
control.

The ancient writers tell us that during the Hannibalic crisis Rome
put its largest ever army into the field some 90,000 men at Cannae.
Not a lot really so how did they maintain such a large empire?
Allies! The bulk of Roman armies from the 2nd century BC onwards
comprised mainly of allies and auxiliaries, see PA Brunt's book,
Italian Manpower. These allies allowed Rome's armies to re stock
year after year. This can be seen with the breaking point in 89BC
with the advent of the Social War in which the allies fed up of re
stocking Rome's armies with no rights to property or citizenship,
just the "reward" of Rome's protection. This Marius saw and tried to
put right with his military reforms however he was checked from
going the whole hog by the very protective Senate. After all Marius
himself was an outsider who had to fight for recognition. So I
believe Rome's great military strength came from its willingness to
absorb and adapt and owes a great deal more to its Italian allies
than the Romano- centric sources let on.
Vale: please feel free to reply especially if you have other view on
this. hope you didn't mind me butting in :0) G. Ulpius Silur.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ben Radcliffe
<appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:

>
> The army was initially loyal to the Senate and people because it

was a citizen militia rather than a professional army; that is, the
citizens were drafted into the army for a war and were expected to
provide their own armor, weapons, and food. There was no pay other
than the spoils of war.

>
> But this system could not provide enough troops for the large

empire at the time of Marius. Thus, he transformed the system into
a professional one; citizens volunteered and were payed for their
services. However, it was the general, not the senate, who was
expected to pay the troops. Perhaps this was the greatest flaw--
the soldiers became loyal to their generals rather than to the
SPQR.

>
> If it would have been possible to have the Senate pay the

soldiers' wages or to give them land, then maybe the instability
would have been somewhat curtailed. They might have ended up with a
more 'modern army.'

>
> But I agree, the discussion could be endless, especially if we

don't have a focus; it is a lot of fun though!

>
> Optime Vale,
> Ap. Vipsanius
>
> "P. Dominus Antonius" <marsvigilia@...>

wrote: I suspect
the problems of the standing army were not due to its existence

> but the way it was called into existence in the first place.

From its

> beginning the army was not necessarily loyal to and answerable

to the Senate

> and People of Rome so much as it was loyal to its general. If

had been

> possible to make the army more of a modern army perhaps...
>
> But then again these games can be played in circles forever.

Fun though,

> yes?
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Islam religio pacis, nex omnibus dissentint.
>
> On 8/14/06, Ben Radcliffe <appius_vipsanius@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cai Moravi,
> > Yes, alternative histories can be quite tricky, especially

when we take

> > into consideration the importance of single characters and

personalities on

> > the whole of history. I guess that my idea about a

Gaulic 'buffer zone' was

> > pretty mislead; maybe a massive Gaulic Empire would have

organized itself

> > had the Romans not intervened, maybe some other event would

have occured to

> > set off modern speculation.
> >
> > Your point about the dual destructive and protective nature of

the Roman

> > army is strengthened when we consider that it was Marius' new

recruitment

> > system which ultimately gave the Romans enough troops to fight

off the

> > Cimbri, but also turned the legions into the private armies of

men like

> > Sulla, Caesar, and Pompey.
> >
> > In the end, it might have been Rome's large size that allowed

it to last

> > so long because it had so much land to loose. But if we are

considering the

> > political system of the Republic more important than land and

glory of

> > autocratic empire, then perhaps we cannot expect a system as

inefficient and

> > unstable as a Republic to last very long or to aquire much

land in the long

> > run.
> > ---
> > I'll be happy to have you in the Sodalitas Graeciae. I've

prepared a

> > charter and I'm sending it around for second opinions. Would

you be

> > interested in taking a look at it?
> >
> > Optime Vale!
> > Ap. Vipsanius
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
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OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Septembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"Zeus, king of gods, made Metis his first wife,/she who knows most of
gods and mortal men./But when she was about to bear the owl-eyed
(glaukopin)/goddess Athena, then he deceived her mind with a trick of
wily words, and put her down in his belly,/by the advice of Gaia
(Earth) and starry Ouranos (Sky). Thus they advised him, so that no
other of the eternal/gods would hold the office of king but Zeus. For
from her wise children were fated to be born:/first a daughter,
owl-eyed Tritogeneia, like her father in strength and wise
counsel,/but then she was going to bear a son proud of heart, king of
gods and men;/but first Zeus put her into his own belly, so that the
goddess might advise him on good and evil." - Hesiod, Theogony 886-900

"Zeus had intercourse with Metis, although she changed into many
shapes to avoid making love with him. While she was pregnant Zeus
swallowed her up, for Earth said that after she bore the daughter she
was now carrying she would produce a son who would be ruler over
heaven. Fearing this, he swallowed her. Prometheus or as some say,
Hephaestus struck Zeus' head with an axe when the time came for her to
give birth and Athena leaped from it in full armor at the river
Triton." - Apollodorus, The Library 3.6

"And they that held Athens, the well-built citadel, the land of
great-hearted Erechtheus, whom of old Athene, daughter of Zeus,
fostered, when the earth, the giver of grain, had borne him; and she
made him to dwell in Athens, in her own rich sanctuary, [550] and
there the youths of the Athenians, as the years roll on in their
courses, seek to win his favour with sacrifices of bulls and rams..."
- Homer, Iliad 2.546-551

"Of Pallas Athena, guardian of the city, I begin to sing. Dread is
she, and with Ares she loves the deeds of war, the sack of cities and
the shouting and the battle. It is she who saves the people as they go
to war and come back. Hail, goddess, and give us good fortune and
happiness!" - Homeric Hymn 11 to Athena

"I begin to sing of Pallas Athena, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed,
inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities,
courageous, Tritogeneia (Of Trito Born). From his awful head wise Zeus
himself bare her arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe
seized all the gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the
immortal head and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a
sharp spear: great Olympos began to reel horribly at the might of the
grey-eyed goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea
was moved and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly:
the bright Son of Hyperion [the Sun] stopped his swift-footed horses a
long while, until the maiden Pallas Athena had stripped the heavenly
armour from her immortal shoulders. And wise Zeus was glad. Hail to
you, daughter of Zeus who holds the aegis!" - Homeric Hymn 29 to Athena

"Only-begotten, noble race of Zeus, blessed and fierce, who joyest in
caves to rove: O warlike Pallas, whose illustrious kind, ineffable,
and effable we find: magnanimous and famed, the rocky height, and
groves, and shady mountains thee delight: in arms rejoicing, who with
furies dire and wild the souls of mortals dost inspire. Gymnastic
virgin of terrific mind, dire Gorgon's bane, unmarried, blessed, kind:
mother of arts, impetuous; understood as fury by the bad, but wisdom
by the good. Female and male, the arts of war are thine, O
much-formed, Drakaina, inspired divine: over the Phlegraion Gigantes,
roused to ire, thy coursers driving with destructive dire.
Tritogeneia, of splendid mien, purger of evils, all-victorious queen.
Hear me, O Goddess, when to thee I pray, with supplicating voice both
night and day, and in my latest hour give peace and health, propitious
times, and necessary wealth, and ever present be thy votaries aid, O
much implored, art's parent, blue-eyed maid." - Orphic Hymn 32 to Athena

Today marks the last day of the Panathenaic Games held in ancient
Greece. The Panathenaic Games were a set of games held every four
years in Athens, and were actually part of a much larger religious
festival, the Panathenaia, which was held every year. Every fourth
year when the games were also held, the festival was known as the
"Great Panathenaia," and was 3 or 4 days longer than the regular
festival. They were the most prestigious games for the citizens of
Athens, but they were not as important as the Olympic Games or the
other Panhellenic Games.

The first Great Panathenaia was organized by Pisistratus in 566 BC,
and was modelled on the Olympic Games. Pisistratus also added music
and poetry competitions, which were part of the Pythian Games but not
the Olympics. The games were divided into games for Athenians only,
and games for Athenians and any other Greeks who wanted to
participate. The games for all Greeks were essentially the same as the
Olympics, with boxing, wrestling, pankration, pentathlon, and chariot
racing, but chariot racing was the most prestigious of these, unlike
the Olympics where the stadion (foot race) was more important. The
winner of the chariot race received as a prize 140 "Panathenaic
Amphorae" full of olive oil.

The games in which only the Athenians were allowed to participate were
somewhat different. These included a torch race to the Parthenon (the
ancestor of the modern Olympic torch relay that takes place prior to
the Games), mock infantry and cavalry battles, a javelin throw on
horseback, the apobatai (a chariot race in which the driver had to
jump out of the chariot, run alongside, and jump back in), the
pyrriche (apparently military exercises accompanied by music), and the
euandrion (essentially a beauty contest among the athletes). In later
years there was also a rowing competition.

The Panathenaea also included poetic and musical competitions. Prizes
were awarded for rhapsodic recitation of Homeric poetry, for
instrumental music on the aulos (double oboe) and kithara (lyre), and
for singing to the accompaniment of the aulos (aulody) and kithara
(citharody).

The procession to the Parthenon was, however, more important than the
games themselves. During the Great Panathenaia (but not the regular
Panathenaia held every year), a special robe (the peplos) was made by
the women of Athens for the statue of Athena, which was carried to the
Parthenon as part of the procession. There was also a large sacrifice
made to Athena, the hekatombe ("sacrifice of a hundred oxen") and the
meat from the sacrificed animals was used in an enormous banquet on
the final night of the festival, the pannychis ("all-nighter").

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Hesiod, Homer, Apollodorus, Wikipedia

Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD

Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus, and specially to the fact that my ID does not show the differentiating nomen, It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it already happens.

Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius Priscus, and I can assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the similitude of the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection of Iulii and Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.

Valete optime
Ap. Iul. Priscus


---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites,

I confirm that Ap. Iulius Priscus is a fine citizen in good standing who lives
in Portugal, and has nothing at all to do with the Priscus currently under
censorial nota.

Valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
Censor Novae Romae

Appius Iulius Priscus <ap.priscus@...> writes:

> Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD
>
> Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus, and
> specially to the fact that my ID does not show the differentiating nomen,
> It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it already
> happens.
>
> Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius Priscus, and I can
> assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the similitude of
> the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection of Iulii and
> Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.
>
> Valete optime
> Ap. Iul. Priscus

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, gequitiuscato wrote:

> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Septembris; haec dies comitialis est.
>
> "Of Pallas Athena, guardian of the city, I begin to sing. Dread is
> she, and with Ares she loves the deeds of war, the sack of cities and
> the shouting and the battle. It is she who saves the people as they go
> to war and come back. Hail, goddess, and give us good fortune and
> happiness!" - Homeric Hymn 11 to Athena

Greatly appreciated are your citations, O Cato, but in this case the
Homeric hymn gives a completely wrong impression. Athena Promachos -- the
Goddess Foremost in Battle -- does _not_ love the deeds of war as bloody
Ares, that two-faced (alloprosalos) bully, does. While he glories in the
sack of cities and the shouting and the battle for the sake of shedding
blood, Great Athena (whom the Romans call Minerva) delights to see men
fight in defense of their rights and homes. She is a fighter of skill and
warcraft, where Ares joys in the madness of battle -- which the barbarians
of the North call berserkergang. (It is worth remembering that the Roman
god Mars, though many call him another name for Ares, is a protector and
avenger; and thereto he wears good armor and the scarlet paludimentum of a
commander skilled in battle, while images of Ares oft show him naked save
for shield and spear.) Ares once was hardy enough to challenge
Athena -- Homer records this in the Iliad -- and she knocked him out with
a rock, disdaining to use her weapons on such a one.

-- P. Livius Triarius

Salve Appius Iulius Priscus

You have my sincere apology for mistaking your name for Appius
Claudius Priscus and for banning your posts from the Nova Roma forum.

You are most welcome here.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete quirites,
>
> I confirm that Ap. Iulius Priscus is a fine citizen in good

standing who lives

> in Portugal, and has nothing at all to do with the Priscus

currently under

> censorial nota.
>
> Valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
> Censor Novae Romae
>
> Appius Iulius Priscus <ap.priscus@...> writes:
>
> > Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD
> >
> > Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus,

and

> > specially to the fact that my ID does not show the

differentiating nomen,

> > It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it

already

> > happens.
> >
> > Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius

Priscus, and I can

> > assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the

similitude of

> > the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection of

Iulii and

> > Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.
> >
> > Valete optime
> > Ap. Iul. Priscus
>

Cato P. Livio Triario sal.

You are quite right. As Athena promoted the internal prosperity of
the state, by encouraging agriculture and industry, and by maintaining
law and order in all public transactions, so also she protected the
state from outward enemies, and thus assumes the character of a
warlike divinity, though in a very different sense from Ares, Eris, or
Enyo. Her epithet "Promachos" is usually translated as "champion" or
"protector" - and her most popular epithet, "Nike", refers to her
being victorious in war. However, according to Homer (Iliad 5.736ff),
she does not even bear arms, but borrows them from Zeus; she keeps men
from slaughter when prudence demands it (op. cit. 1.199ff), and repels
Ares's savage love of war, and conquers him. (op. cit. 5.840ff,
11.406). She does not love war for its own sake, but simply on
account of the advantages which the state gains in engaging in it; and
she therefore supports only such warlike undertakings as are begun
with prudence, and are likely to be followed by favourable results.
In times of war, towns, fortresses, and harbours are under her
especial care. As the prudent goddess of war, she is also the
protectress of all heroes who are distinguished for prudence and good
counsel, as well as for their strength and valour, such as Heracles,
Perseus, Bellerophontes, Achilles, Diomedes, and Odysseus. In the war
of Zeus against the giants, she assisted her father and Heracles with
her counsel, and also took an active part in it, for she buried
Enceladus under the island of Sicily, and slew Pallas (Apollodorus,
The Library i. 6.1ff; Horace, Carmen i. 12. 19). In the Trojan war
she sided with the more civilised Greeks, though on their return home
she visited them with storms, on account of the manner in which the
Locrian Ajax had treated Cassandra in her temple. As a goddess of war
and the protectress of heroes, Athena usually appears in armour, with
the aegis and a golden staff, with which she bestows on her favourites
youth and majesty. (theoi.com)

Compare this with Ares:

"[Zeus speaking to Ares:]'To me you are the most hateful of all the
gods who hold Olympos. Forever quarrelling is dear to your heart, wars
and battles...were you born of some other god and proved so ruinous
long since you would have been dropped beneath the gods of the bright
sky." - Homer, Iliad 5.699

"Magnanimous, unconquered, boisterous Ares, in darts rejoicing, and in
bloody wars; fierce and untamed, whose mighty power can make the
strongest walls from their foundations shake: mortal-destroying king,
defiled with gore, pleased with war's dreadful and tumultuous roar.
Thee in human blood, and swords, and spears delight, and the dire ruin
of mad savage fight. Stay furious contests, and avenging strife, whose
works with woe embitter human life." - Orphic Hymn 65 to Ares

"As Brotoloigos (Manslaughtering) Ares is when he strides into battle
and Deimos (Terror) goes on beside him, his beloved son, the powerful
and dauntless, who frightens even the patient-hearted warrior: these
two come out of Thrake to encounter in arms the Ephyroi or the
great-hearted Phlegyes, but the two will not listen to prayers from
both sides, but give the glory to one side or the other." - Homer,
Iliad 13.299

but look at this as well:

"Ares...[r]estrain also the keen fury of my heart which provokes me to
tread the ways of blood-curdling strife. Rather, O blessed one, give
you me boldness to abide within the harmless laws of peace, avoiding
strife and hatred and the violent fiends of death." - Homeric Hymn 8
to Ares

Interesting conflict...

Vale bene,

Cato

Salvete omnes

I understand the confusion, Tb. Galeri Paulini.

Due to professional workload and absorving personal affairs, I had not been able to read the majority of the postings during the Claudius Priscus case. Otherwise, I would have made the distinction clear in order to avoid future confusions. All this puts me in a state in which I am very unaware of the contents of this scandal and dispute. If it is not to ask to much, I would like that someone tell me very briefly (to my private address) what was all this case about.

Valete
Appius Iulius Priscus

"Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salve Appius Iulius Priscus

You have my sincere apology for mistaking your name for Appius
Claudius Priscus and for banning your posts from the Nova Roma forum.

You are most welcome here.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete quirites,
>
> I confirm that Ap. Iulius Priscus is a fine citizen in good

standing who lives

> in Portugal, and has nothing at all to do with the Priscus

currently under

> censorial nota.
>
> Valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
> Censor Novae Romae
>
> Appius Iulius Priscus <ap.priscus@...> writes:
>
> > Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD
> >
> > Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus,

and

> > specially to the fact that my ID does not show the

differentiating nomen,

> > It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it

already

> > happens.
> >
> > Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius

Priscus, and I can

> > assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the

similitude of

> > the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection of

Iulii and

> > Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.
> >
> > Valete optime
> > Ap. Iul. Priscus
>

---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!

Today I was at my high school teacher's place,and she's a woman who is
definitely in love with Latin.
While she was helping me with my preparation for the forthcoming exam
on the university, we were talking about the future of a Latin student
(as a translator for example) and she showed me the book of a Roman
literature written by one Croatian Latinist.
She started to read some of its parts and the book has a great
revision of Roman texts and authors with funny dialogues and it seems
to be very interesting.
I thought she could lend me it, but then she said that the book is
still in manuscript because there are not enough people interested in
its publishment.
Well, I believe that I'm just one of many who believe that this isn't
fair to Latin language and its lovers.
I know that here in Croatia people are not realy interested in Latin
language and culture, but if there are no people who would like to
share their interest and give a chance to something that has a quality
(such are that kind of books) , then how will people get interested in
anything??
The book has more than 200 pages, that man obviously knows a lot about
Latin literature and history and it's really sad that there are no
people who will support him and his work.
So, I'm asking you, is this a local problem, or there is not enough
space for Latin in other countries as well?
And is there any possibility to solve such problem?

Gratias ago,

valete!

Salve Tamara,

It certainly looks like the Latin language is making a come back.
Here is a good article from USA today that will answer your question:



"Latin revival shows everything very old is new again
Little did I know back in 1964 that 40 years down the road I would
be cool.
The guys who made the basketball team were cool. The kids who smoked
behind the Methodist Church every morning before the school bell
rang were cool. Donovan was cool.

But not me. I wasn't cool. I took Latin.

It wasn't that I went out of my way to study the dead language. In
my rural high school, it was pretty much the only way to gather
college entrance credits. Spanish and German hadn't yet made their
way to western New York. French was offered only on occasion.

As odd as it seems now, Latin, a language no one spoke, was a ticket
out.

So for four years I found myself in Mrs. Byerly's Latin class,
translating Caesar and Cicero and Pliny, both elder and younger,
thank you very much.

All Gaul is divided into three parts —Gallia est omnis divisa in
partes tres — she said, and that was that. You didn't argue with
Mrs. Byerly. In Latin or English.

I learned what SPQR meant before I knew what ROTC was. I knew carpe
diem before Robin Williams brought the catchy phrase to light in
Dead Poets Society.

It was serious business, conjugating those verbs. And when I didn't
have my translations done, I knew better than to ever say Canis meus
id comedit (my dog ate it).

But for some reason, I enjoyed it. So much so that when I got to
college, I took two more years, again to complete a language
requirement. I remember a long Syracuse winter spent wandering
through Virgil's Aeneid.

It never crossed my mind that one day I'd travel the world myself
and perhaps need a language people actually spoke. Didn't cross Mrs.
Byerly's mind, either. She always seemed to have us on a forced
march, or magnum iter, as we ancient Romans like to say.

And now I see I was a man far ahead of his time. Latin is hot again.

Newspapers from USA TODAY to The Indianapolis Star have reported
that after nearly a half-century lull, studying the language of
ancient Rome is cool again. College enrollment in Latin is the
highest it has been since the Modern Language Association started
keeping track in 1958.

Latin is everywhere, although I can't remember the Latin word for
everywhere. Ubique, maybe?

Tina Turner is singing classical songs in Latin in the upcoming
Merchant-Ivory film, The Goddess. Irish singer Enya performs Latin
tracks on four of her CDs. And The West Wing's President Bartlet
speaks in Latin when so provoked.

Even the first Harry Potter book has been translated into Harrius
Potter et Philosophi Lapis.

And now millions are hearing Latin for the first time in Mel
Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. (It comes with English subtitles
for those of you who didn't sign up for Mrs. Byerly's class.)

What would she think of all this newfound attention? She was a
practical woman, right down to the glasses that hung from her neck.
Trendiness was not her nature. Skepticism was her motto. I suspect
she'd quote her old pal Cicero: Nihil est incertius volgo.

Nothing is more uncertain than the crowd."

Join Craig Wilson for his weekly Final Word chat on Thursdays at 1
p.m. ET.


Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara" <spes_imperatrix@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Today I was at my high school teacher's place,and she's a woman

who is

> definitely in love with Latin.
> While she was helping me with my preparation for the forthcoming

exam

> on the university, we were talking about the future of a Latin

student

> (as a translator for example) and she showed me the book of a Roman
> literature written by one Croatian Latinist.
> She started to read some of its parts and the book has a great
> revision of Roman texts and authors with funny dialogues and it

seems

> to be very interesting.
> I thought she could lend me it, but then she said that the book is
> still in manuscript because there are not enough people interested

in

> its publishment.
> Well, I believe that I'm just one of many who believe that this

isn't

> fair to Latin language and its lovers.
> I know that here in Croatia people are not realy interested in

Latin

> language and culture, but if there are no people who would like to
> share their interest and give a chance to something that has a

quality

> (such are that kind of books) , then how will people get

interested in

> anything??
> The book has more than 200 pages, that man obviously knows a lot

about

> Latin literature and history and it's really sad that there are no
> people who will support him and his work.
> So, I'm asking you, is this a local problem, or there is not enough
> space for Latin in other countries as well?
> And is there any possibility to solve such problem?
>
> Gratias ago,
>
> valete!
>

Salve

Wikipedia has an article on "Living Latin":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Latin

optime vale!

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara" <spes_imperatrix@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Today I was at my high school teacher's place,and she's a woman who is
> definitely in love with Latin.
> While she was helping me with my preparation for the forthcoming exam
> on the university, we were talking about the future of a Latin student
> (as a translator for example) and she showed me the book of a Roman
> literature written by one Croatian Latinist.
> She started to read some of its parts and the book has a great
> revision of Roman texts and authors with funny dialogues and it seems
> to be very interesting.
> I thought she could lend me it, but then she said that the book is
> still in manuscript because there are not enough people interested in
> its publishment.
> Well, I believe that I'm just one of many who believe that this isn't
> fair to Latin language and its lovers.
> I know that here in Croatia people are not realy interested in Latin
> language and culture, but if there are no people who would like to
> share their interest and give a chance to something that has a quality
> (such are that kind of books) , then how will people get interested in
> anything??
> The book has more than 200 pages, that man obviously knows a lot about
> Latin literature and history and it's really sad that there are no
> people who will support him and his work.
> So, I'm asking you, is this a local problem, or there is not enough
> space for Latin in other countries as well?
> And is there any possibility to solve such problem?
>
> Gratias ago,
>
> valete!
>

M. Hortensia App. Claudio spd;
it's the gens Claudia that has to bear the shame of
the duo App. Claudii, you're always welcome here Prisce. Remember
you always have the option of a cognomen change if this is
unpleasant for you. I for one know the difference between the
Claudii and the Iulli;-
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Salvete omnes
>
> I understand the confusion, Tb. Galeri Paulini.
>
> Due to professional workload and absorving personal affairs, I

had not been able to read the majority of the postings during the
Claudius Priscus case. Otherwise, I would have made the distinction
clear in order to avoid future confusions. All this puts me in a
state in which I am very unaware of the contents of this scandal and
dispute. If it is not to ask to much, I would like that someone tell
me very briefly (to my private address) what was all this case about.

>
> Valete
> Appius Iulius Priscus
>
> "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve Appius Iulius Priscus
>
> You have my sincere apology for mistaking your name for Appius
> Claudius Priscus and for banning your posts from the Nova Roma

forum.

>
> You are most welcome here.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> <gawne@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete quirites,
> >
> > I confirm that Ap. Iulius Priscus is a fine citizen in good
> standing who lives
> > in Portugal, and has nothing at all to do with the Priscus
> currently under
> > censorial nota.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
> > Censor Novae Romae
> >
> > Appius Iulius Priscus <ap.priscus@> writes:
> >
> > > Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD
> > >
> > > Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus,
> and
> > > specially to the fact that my ID does not show the
> differentiating nomen,
> > > It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it
> already
> > > happens.
> > >
> > > Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius
> Priscus, and I can
> > > assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the
> similitude of
> > > the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection

of

> Iulii and
> > > Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.
> > >
> > > Valete optime
> > > Ap. Iul. Priscus
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete Omnes,
If you are interested at all in Ancient Greece, please join the Sodalitas Graeciae at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodalitasgraeciae/

The list and the club are band new, and I would very grateful to anyone who helps this burgeoning club off to a great start.
I am preparing a charter for presentation to the Senate so that the Sodalitas may become an official part of Nova Roma.

The Sodalitas Graeciae aims to:
1. discuss and research all subjects pertaining to Ancient Greece,
2. restore, in our New Rome, the Ancient Greek tradition that existed in the old Rome.

The affluent Romans had Greek tutors who taught them the Greek Language, rhetorical skills, philosophy, and other facets of Hellenic culture. Eventually, the nobility no longer spoke Latin, but Greek. Julius Caesar probably did not say "Et tu, Brute," but "καὶ σὺ, τέκνον." But language was not the only influence: I quote Horace's eloquent line once again, "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio."

Like the ancient nobility, you too can become a truly educated Roman!
Learn a bit of Ancient Greek, discuss history, art, religion, and philosophy, and have some fun expanding your horizons.

Optime Valete,
Ap. Vipsanius



---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Ben Radcliffe wrote:

> The affluent Romans had Greek tutors who taught them the Greek Language,
> rhetorical skills, philosophy, and other facets of Hellenic culture.
> Eventually, the nobility no longer spoke Latin, but Greek. Julius Caesar
> probably did not say "Et tu, Brute," but "καὶ
> σὺ, τέκνον."

Probably most of us would use language like that if we'd just been
stabbed.

-- P. Livius Triarius

Yes, of course, good one. The greek text only works half the time.
It should have said, "kai su, technon"
let's see, I'll try it again and hope it turns out:
Καὶ συ, τέχνον
If that doesn't work, maybe this will:
καὶ συ, τέχνον

But, now that you've read the email, I hope to see your application for membership soon! :)


dicconf <dicconf@...> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Ben Radcliffe wrote:

> The affluent Romans had Greek tutors who taught them the Greek Language,
> rhetorical skills, philosophy, and other facets of Hellenic culture.
> Eventually, the nobility no longer spoke Latin, but Greek. Julius Caesar
> probably did not say "Et tu, Brute," but "καὶ
> σὺ, τέκνον."

Probably most of us would use language like that if we'd just been
stabbed.

-- P. Livius Triarius





---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve.
"marcushoratius" mhoratius@... marcushoratius
Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:02 am (PST)
wrote:
Salve Appi Claudi Cicero
If I understand your post correctly, are you writing on behalf of
Appius Claudius Priscus, and is it he who is invoking his right to
provocatio ad populum?
Appius Claudius Priscus retains the right to provocatio ad populum and
he may invoke it if he so chooses.
<<<A.C.C.: provocatio was the last chance a citizen had in a iudicium. I
think it could be used against that senatusdecretum and that nota, if
cowardice prevents pontifex maximus to do it. Of course, provocatio can not
be used against Appius Claudius Priscus (do you wish to?) because a
iudicium against him, after all those acts, cannot be: how could a praetor
or a tribunal act against those acts? I think that those acts
(senatusdecretum and nota are against all citizens, not only Appius Claudius
Priscus, that's why I don't need him to ratify what I ask to
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
and all others Tribuni plebis, to pontifex and to all others citizens:
cancel that nota and that senatusdecreta, cancel that abuse against Appius
Claudius Priscus, give him his citizenship back; he paid the tax and I will
never pay taxes to this organization tha usurp the name of Roma>>>>
He has been told about this
before, by myself and by others. He just continues to fail to do so
properly. Have him write to the Tribuni Plebis directly if that is
what he wants to do.
<<<A.C.C.: why should he trust?>>>
Vale
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
Tribunus Plebis
<<<Vale. Appius Claudius Cicero.
Nomen est omen>>>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Septembris; haec dies nefastus
publicus est.

"Portunalia dicta a Portuno, cui eo die aedes in portu Tiberino facta
et feriae institutae." - Varro, de Lingua Latina VI

Today is the ceebration of the Portunalia, in honor of the god
Portunes. Portunes (alternatively spelled Portumnes or Portunus) was
a god of keys and doors and livestock. He protected the warehouses
where grain was stored. Probably because of folk associations between
porta "gate, door" and portus "harbor", the "gateway" to the sea,
Portunus later became conflated with Palaemon and evolved into a god
primarily of ports and harbors. In the Latin adjective importunus his
name was applied to untimely waves and weather and contrary winds, and
the Latin echoes in English opportune and its old-fashioned antonym
importune, meaning "well-timed' and "badly-timed". Hence Portunus is
behind both an opportunity and importunate or badly-timed solicitations

The temple of Portunis was built at the port on the Tiber; this small
temple on the banks of the Tiber was dedicated to the Roman god of
rivers and seaports, Portunus. Originally this deity protected doors
("portus") but when the meaning of the word changed to harbor, his
guardian function also changed. It was built of tufa and travertine
blocks which had been originally been coated with a fine layer of
stucco. It is in a good state of preservation because it was converted
to a Christian church in the 9th century AD. Some sources also refer
to this as a Tiberinalia, or festival of the Tiber river, as Portunis
is the god of the Tiber. Portunis is also known as the god of keys, or
the opening of locked gates, while as Ianus he was the god of doors.
On this day old keys were burned in the hearth as a sacrificial offering.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Varro, Wikipedia

A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.

You talk a lot about fas and jus and judicium and provocatio, but you obviously don't know much about ancient Roman constitutional law.

> think it [provocatio] could be used against that senatusdecretum and that nota, if cowardice prevents pontifex maximus to do it. <

Provocatio could not be used against a senatus consultum. Provocatio could not be used against a nota.

The pontifex maximus could not overrule a senatus consultum. The pontifex maximus could not overrule a nota.

> senatusdecretum and nota are against all citizens, not only Appius Claudius Priscus, that's why I don't need him to ratify what I ask to <

Provocatio could only be exercised by the person who was threatened with punishment. Provocatio could not be exercised by proxy.

> give him his citizenship back <

Your gentilis has not been deprived of his citizenship. He is still a citizen.

L. Iunius omnibus sal.

I know pleasingly little of this Res Claudia Prisca. I yesterday received email from some fool
going by Ap. Claudius Priscus, as I would assume you all must have, which paraphrased
"evidence" that a certain crime against humanity never happened. I've better things to read
with my time (a couple of hundred pages of phone book listings come to mind), but I'm never
inclined to stand against freedom of speech. I am curious, however: Is he banned from
using this list or not? Is it that you are able to prevent him from posting to the webpage, but
not from sending e-mail to the list?

Di vos conservent.

Ap. Iulius Priscus M. Hortensiae quiritibus SPD

You have referred two Claudius in this question, but my nomen is Iulius, the ex-citizen´s nomen was Claudius. I do not see a reason to change my cognomen; It is my in my belief that we cannot change names because some idiot uses the same name as ours. But of course, if the ruling institutions of NR (I am sorry for my lack of further knowldege of NR government organization) advice me to do so, I would act accordingly. However - and I stress it - that is not my personal wish.

Valete
Appius Iulius Priscus

Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
M. Hortensia App. Claudio spd;
it's the gens Claudia that has to bear the shame of
the duo App. Claudii, you're always welcome here Prisce. Remember
you always have the option of a cognomen change if this is
unpleasant for you. I for one know the difference between the
Claudii and the Iulli;-
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Salvete omnes
>
> I understand the confusion, Tb. Galeri Paulini.
>
> Due to professional workload and absorving personal affairs, I

had not been able to read the majority of the postings during the
Claudius Priscus case. Otherwise, I would have made the distinction
clear in order to avoid future confusions. All this puts me in a
state in which I am very unaware of the contents of this scandal and
dispute. If it is not to ask to much, I would like that someone tell
me very briefly (to my private address) what was all this case about.

>
> Valete
> Appius Iulius Priscus
>
> "Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve Appius Iulius Priscus
>
> You have my sincere apology for mistaking your name for Appius
> Claudius Priscus and for banning your posts from the Nova Roma

forum.

>
> You are most welcome here.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> <gawne@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete quirites,
> >
> > I confirm that Ap. Iulius Priscus is a fine citizen in good
> standing who lives
> > in Portugal, and has nothing at all to do with the Priscus
> currently under
> > censorial nota.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
> > Censor Novae Romae
> >
> > Appius Iulius Priscus <ap.priscus@> writes:
> >
> > > Appius Iulius Priscus omnibus civibus SPD
> > >
> > > Due to the similarity of my name with Appius Claudius Priscus,
> and
> > > specially to the fact that my ID does not show the
> differentiating nomen,
> > > It is possible that I am confused with this ex-citizen, as it
> already
> > > happens.
> > >
> > > Although my ID is ap.priscus, my name is Appius Iulius
> Priscus, and I can
> > > assure that I have nothing to do with this ex-citizen, the
> similitude of
> > > the names being a mere coincidence. The historical connection

of

> Iulii and
> > > Claudii is another one. Please, do not confound us.
> > >
> > > Valete optime
> > > Ap. Iul. Priscus
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve.
"Maior" rory12001@... rory12001
Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:27 pm (PST)
wrote:
M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
ROTFL..! how do I say that in Latin Corde? You are too much with
that dry British wit. Vivat Britannos.
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on

telling us how we should run our republic.
<<<ACC: I know how to write my own name. These citizens, who incited
censores and senatores against Appius Claudius Priscus, try to offend me.
This is not civilian; are they Nova Roma citizens? is this your republic?
Vale. Appius Claudius Cicero
Nomen est omen>>>

Salve Luci Iuni, et salvete quirites,

He's banned from posting to the Nova-Roma mailing list, but he seems to be
harvesting e-mail addresses and using them to electronically harrass people.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...> writes:

> L. Iunius omnibus sal.
>
> I am curious, however: Is he banned from
> using this list or not? Is it that you are able to prevent him from
> posting to the webpage, but not from sending e-mail to the list?
>
> Di vos conservent.

> A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.
>
>> > How should we write to you to be polite, A.(ppia?) Tullia Scholastica? <
>
> The abbreviation "A." always stands for "Aulus" or "Aula", and never for
> anything else.
>
> The abbreviation for "Appius" is always "Ap.", and never anything else.
>
> Therefore A. Tullia Scholastica is Aula Tullia Scholastica, I am Aulus
> Apollonius Cordus, and you are Appius Claudius Cicero.
>
> Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on telling us
> how we should run our republic.
>
>
> ATS: Sicut saepius, Corde amice comissime, qui multa mihi dolenda de meis
> sarcinis passus es, rem acu tetigisti.
>
>
> Vale, et valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.D.
>
>
> M. Hortensia A. Apollonio spd;
> ROTFL..! how do I say that in Latin Corde? You are too much with
> that dry British wit. Vivat Britannos.
>
> ATS: Nonne vivant Britanni? Et Brittunculi? (de hoc quidem iocor...)
> vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>> > Now that you know how to write your own name, feel free to carry on
> telling us how we should run our republic.
>> >
>
>
> Valete,
>
> ATS

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> Salve, Flavi Vedi Germanice, et salvete, omnes!
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I was wondering if one of our resident Latin scholars would be willing
> to help me with a small task. Literally a two or three word phrase, but
> I want to get it right.
>
> Please email me offlist at germanicus at goldenfuture dot net.
>
> ATS: As our pater patriae is aware, I have done so, and supplied the
> information requested.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> Pater Patriae
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>

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A. Apollonius Ap. Julio sal.

> You have referred two Claudius in this question, but my nomen is Iulius, the ex-citizen´s nomen was Claudius. I do not see a reason to change my cognomen; It is my in my belief that we cannot change names because some idiot uses the same name as ours. But of course, if the ruling institutions of NR (I am sorry for my lack of further knowldege of NR government organization) advice me to do so, I would act accordingly. However - and I stress it - that is not my personal wish. <

I think the two Claudii whom M. Hortensia referred to are Ap. Claudius Priscus and Ap. Claudius Cicero.

You're quite right not to change your name. Romans could not change their names, and in Nova Roma people are not allowed to change their names unless it's to change from an unhistorical name to a better one. Since your cognomen is perfectly Roman, there's no need to change it.

Salvete omnes,

I really enjoy the excellent sense of humor of Maior and Cordus. And I
agree one hundred per cent with Maior: Cordus dry British wit is
wonderful. I join she: Vivat Britannos.

But it seems that Appius Claudius Cicero has a very thin skin. No wonder
he is trying to defend somebody like Appius Claudius Priscus. Now, Cicero
is going to tell everybody, the world over, that he is being harassed. No
more of this, please!

Let us Roman citizens live in peace, enjoying such pleasures like the dry
British wit...

Valete optime,

M•IVL•SEVERVS

--
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In a message dated 8/17/2006 3:24:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
claudio.guzzo@... writes:

Appius Claudius Priscus retains the right to provocatio ad populum and
he may invoke it if he so chooses.




Not against the Senate. That SC is more for decoration. It is not
punitive. And it certainly was not an abuse of power. Everyone here pretty much has
made his mind up about A. Claudius Priscus.
Your Gensman retains his citizenship, and may function as normal NR citizen
EXCEPT his communications in the Forum are under moderation by the Praetor's
office.
and he cannot exercise his right to franchise because of a nota against him.

Q. Fabius Maximus





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> A. Tullia Scholastica Annae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Ave Romani
> Salve, Ap. Tullia,
>
>>> > >Your chosen praenomen and nomen, Appia Tullia, are fine.
> Istud bonum (how am I doing?)
>
> ATS: So far, so good.
>
>
>>> > >The cognomen, however, does not appear in my newer unabridged Latin
> dictionary, but is listed as a variant spelling of nacca, meaning
> fuller, or Roman dry cleaner,
> Cleaner???? Nooooooo!
>
> ATS: To be sure, it wasn¹t the best of occupations...
>
> How about Corylia?
>
> ATS: Well, I don¹t find anything like this in the newer Latin unabridged,
> though corylus is present, meaning hazel or filbert, as is coryletum, meaning
> hazel-thicket. The letter y indicates that this is probably of Greek origin,
> but the classical Greek unabridged dictionary also has nothing of the kind.
> My small modern Greek dictionary gives an entirely different word for hazel or
> filbert. Perhaps another choice is in order...
>
>
> If censor Marinus agrees, one of the scribae here might be able to
> process your application now...a couple are still around.
> Gratias ago ego accipio.
>
> ATS: First one must find an acceptable name. Most people here are known
> by their cognomina, so it is beneficial to have one, particularly a good one.
> Some of ours are overused (among them, Caesar, Cicero, and, it would seem,
> Priscus), so we discourage these choices. There are, however, plenty of
> others.
>
> BTW went to very interesting talk by Daniel Ogden last night covering
> material in his lastest book - Magic, Witchcraft, and Ghosts in Greek
> and Roman Worlds.
> http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ClassicalStudies/AncientHistory/
> ~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9OTc4MDE5NTEzNTc1Ng==
> History is certainly neither dull nor dusty!
>
> ATS: No, of course not, nor is Latin...
>
> In muneris
> Anne
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>

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