Thanks for the info. I also read the possible explanation for not wearing the tunic being to more easily show scars, I simply thought that if people were explaining the custom as a fear that they may be holding money in the Tunic, they might be thinking this because they had some knowledge that Romans indeed carried money in the tunic. I guess what I am wondering is if anyone knows of any historical evidence in writing on exactly how Romans (Republic OR Imperial) carried spending money. I have read Roman History quite extensively but I cant remember ever reading a passage that hints at this. Is it an assumption they carried it in a pouch on the belt? Or might there be some historical passages to back this up? I seem to remember reading somewhere that some, when traveling, sewed money into their cloaks.

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:17:23 +0000 (GMT), A. Apollonius Cordus wrote

> A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.
>
> I don't know much about emperors (nasty little pests), but regarding your last point:
>
> > Cato says it was the custom for those canvassing for office to do so in the toga without the tunic. It has been suggest this is because they might not carry money in the folds of their tunic and give bribes. What the person is wearing would dictate how they carried money but I would think a pouch in a tunic would be the common way if they indeed did carry money. <
>
> Experts on Roman clothing may correct me, but I don't think Roman tunicae had pouches or pockets in them. A pouch attached to a belt is more likely, and of course a man without a tunica would not have worn a belt either.
>
> However, I don't think this is a very likely reason why candidates didn't wear tunicae. After all, a candidate for office would usually be accompanied by a group of helpers, including nomenclatores to remind him of the names of people he met, and so even if he himself wasn't carrying any money his followers could have given out bribes on his behalf.
>
> A more likely explanation may be that candidates often opened their togae to show the wounds they had received in battle, in order to prove their services to the republic. When you wear a toga with no tunica, it is quite easy to throw it open to reveal your bare chest, arms, or legs, but if you are wearing a tunica you would have to undress completely in order to do this.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Whilst I would rather strictly stick to the Republican rules of
candidates and offices, a problem does arise when there is a
shortage of candidates for particular offices over the last 2 years.
So one has to decide if it is better to let a citizen re-run for the
same office or another after one year should this situation arise.

Regards,

QSP








--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius Cn. Equitio sal.
>
> >>> I would support a law that outlawed continuatio and required

all magistrates to take a year off after serving a magistracy. But
it's absurd to ask people to voluntarily do so because right now the
rules encourage continuatio. <<<

>
> >> Why absurd, amice? <<
>
> > Because I don't believe that we have the ability to prevent

people from practicing continuatio via moral suasion. Certainly we
can try, and I applaud the efforts of those like Ti. Galerius
Paulinus who has made it clear he will not stand for election next
year, but I don't see his example catching on with anything like a
majority of those currently on the cursus honorum. <

>
> Ah, well, this is a slightly different thing. I think what you're

saying is not that it's absurd to *ask* people to do this but that
it's absurd to think that asking will do any good. You may be
right. But I think it's still worth asking. :)

>
> ...
>
> >> What encourages continuatio is ambition and fear. <<
>
> > I agree. Though I'd say that the fear involves concern for the

good of the Republic, and not fear for one's own self. <

>
> Well, I'd say it's somewhere in between. It's fear for the

interests of one's own party (whether an organized party or merely a
loose and informal grouping). Of course most people believe that
the interests of their own party are identical to the interests of
the republic. But I think many people vastly overestimate the
damage that will result from a "bad" candidate being elected to this
or that office. I'm sure we can all think of magistrates over the
years who we would have preferred not to see in office, but how many
of them have actually done lasting harm to the republic? Very few,
I think. Certainly good ideas may be obstructed, but they can be
revisited in future years; bad policies may be implemented, but they
can be undone. Usually the worst that happens is that we fail to
make progress.

>
> On the other hand, what *does* do long-lasting damage to our

republic is the consistent and deliberate flouting of the basic
rules of political life. Our enterprise here is to establish a
Roman republic. It is in the nature of a Roman republic that there
will from time to time be bad magistrates, so the election of bad
magistrates is not necessarily incompatible with the achievement of
our goal. But that goal can only be achieved by doing things in a
Roman way. A Roman republic is, after all, not a thing in itself
but a *way of doing things*. Having bad magistrates *may* make our
republic less Roman, but ignoring the mos majorum *will* and *must*
make our republic less Roman. To my mind, therefore, sticking to
the rules is more important than keeping this or that individual out
of office.

>

Salve!
a_apollonius_cordus@... a_apollonius_cordus
Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:08 am (PST)
wrote about XII tabulae:
but the only reason they did that was because it all needed to be written
down and, since they were doing it all at the same time, it seemed sensible
to write it all in a single lex.
ACC: I supposed that they did that lex because there were different and
uneasy judicia of the same cases. They didn't want to offend some citizen
and did prefer to stop with a Lex all descriminations.
Vale

I am thinking that it might be instructive to look at this issue from a slightly different angle. It seems to me that the issue is more concerned with the difference between our modern definition of "person" than the Ancient (including Roman) definition. "human being" and "person" were separate things, sort of. A person (for legal purposes) was a male citizen. Slaves, women and children were, legally not persons, thus legally they were things. True, male children "grew" into personhood, since they could become citizens, and male slaves had the potential to do so, also.

While legally, slaves, women and children were treated as, and considered things, their basic humanity was never really in question, especially in day to day treatment. A Pater Familia had the legal right to kill his wife, children and slaves ...but that almost never happened. If it did, there would be no legal ramifications ...but the man might well have found himself a social pariah, with no hope of another marriage. Treatment under the law, and treatment in the daily course of life can be very different, even now.

Shoshana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

where does one send in tax by check , i can not find anythink i want
on the new website.as i do not have a bank acct: i have no card to use
at paypal.



Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis

House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...

Salve Marcus Cornelius Felix

you send payment of $12.50 plus 50% late fee of 6.25 to


Nova Roma
P.O. Box 1897
Wells, ME
U.S.A. 04090


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: wuffa2001<mailto:magewuffa@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:14 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] sending in tax


where does one send in tax by check , i can not find anythink i want
on the new website.as i do not have a bank acct: i have no card to use
at paypal.

Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis

House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...<mailto:magewuffa@...>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

FYI

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: Yahoo! Groups Notification<mailto:Novaromatribunalis-accept-1IxoF9rjo=pJGHeo4Dd6DBg@yahoogroups.com>
To: Novaromatribunalis-owner@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Novaromatribunalis-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: MODERATE -- appiusclaudiuspriscus@...<mailto:appiusclaudiuspriscus@...> posted to Novaromatribunalis



Hello,

A message has been sent to the Novaromatribunalis group from

appiusclaudiuspriscus@...<mailto:appiusclaudiuspriscus@...>

The message summary:
--------------------
FROM: appiusclaudiuspriscus@...<mailto:appiusclaudiuspriscus@...>
DATE: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:21:54 -0000
SUBJECT: I resign my citizenship

Salvete omnes:

I, Appius Claudius Priscus, renounce my citizenship in
so-called Nova Roma and my membership in all its egroups.
Except for the few friends I have made among Nova Roma
citizens, I want nothing to do with Nova Romans generally,
neither officials nor passive "citizens"; if Nova Romans
(except my friends) want anything to do with me, they can
sue me in the macrostate court.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Should my application for citizenship be accepted (I just filed it), I will want to pay taxes. However, I don't want to be charged a late fee, which wouldn't be fair, since I wasn't a citizen at the beginning of your tax year. So, when does your tax year begin? January 1? If so, I'll remit my taxes for 1987 then, unless becoming a citizen involves payment of this year's tax upon approval, which I shall certainly do.

Shoshana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE !

That's a correct decision.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:

> I, Appius Claudius Priscus, renounce my citizenship .......

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Quiritibus S.P.D.

So that everything is in order....

I have personally acknowledged and accepted this resignation....
pending notification of the Censors of course . I've forwarded the
actual letter of resignation to the Censors' official addie, but they
are both on the NovaRomaTribunalis list anyway. In either case,
they've been notified.

Valete

> A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo Ap. Claudio quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> I didn¹t receive the original of this from Ap. Claudius, so I am a bit
> handicapped here...some Yahoo messages seem to be missing again.
>
>
> A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.
>
> I don't know much about emperors (nasty little pests), but regarding your last
> point:
>
>> > Cato says it was the custom for those canvassing for office to do so in
>> the toga without the tunic. It has been suggest this is because they might
>> not carry money in the folds of their tunic and give bribes. What the person
>> is wearing would dictate how they carried money but I would think a pouch in
>> a tunic would be the common way if they indeed did carry money. <
>
> Experts on Roman clothing may correct me, but I don't think Roman tunicae had
> pouches or pockets in them. A pouch attached to a belt is more likely, and of
> course a man without a tunica would not have worn a belt either.
>
> ATS: Rather than correct you, Corde amice, I shall confirm that pockets
> did not exist in ancient clothing. Generally, a small bag (plenus sacculus
> est aranearum...) such as those worn by reenactors was used instead. Things
> could also be carried in the sinus of the imperial toga, which was large and
> had complex folds, but this would have been tricky with the smaller Republican
> toga. In either case, money might not have been carried there simply because
> such arrangements in draped-tradition clothing aren¹t what one would call
> secure.
>
> However, I don't think this is a very likely reason why candidates didn't wear
> tunicae.
>
> ATS: It¹s news to me that candidates didn¹t wear tunicae. Now, the
> original Cato didn¹t wear one anyway, but I would appreciate a source on this.
>
> After all, a candidate for office would usually be accompanied by a group of
> helpers, including nomenclatores to remind him of the names of people he met,
> and so even if he himself wasn't carrying any money his followers could have
> given out bribes on his behalf.
>
> A more likely explanation may be that candidates often opened their togae to
> show the wounds they had received in battle, in order to prove their services
> to the republic. When you wear a toga with no tunica, it is quite easy to
> throw it open to reveal your bare chest, arms, or legs, but if you are wearing
> a tunica you would have to undress completely in order to do this.
>
> ATS: Well, Corde amice, it¹s easy enough to reveal wounds on one¹s legs
> or arms without removing the tunica; in the republican period, it was above
> the knees and the sleeves were above the elbows, for anything longer was
> considered effeminate, plus it was normally girt and could be hiked up over
> the subligaculum. It would also not be terribly difficult to slip it off one
> shoulder, or possibly both shoulders, though the difficulty would lie with
> getting the toga back on correctly, especially in the case of the imperial
> period toga, which required (as the archaeologists say) three valets to assist
> the wearer. Draped-tradition clothing is quite different from the
> tailored-tradition clothing familiar to us.
>
> Curate ut valeatis optime!
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
I have been tripping on a new website. roman-britain. I found it
really intresting.

http://www.roman-britain.org/
Vale,
Luci

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Shoshanae quiritibus s.p.d.
>
>
> Should my application for citizenship be accepted (I just filed it), I will
> want to pay taxes. However, I don't want to be charged a late fee, which
> wouldn't be fair, since I wasn't a citizen at the beginning of your tax year.
> So, when does your tax year begin? January 1?
>
> ATS: New citizens do not have to pay taxes in their first year, but if
> they have been here long enough and wish to run for office, that is likely to
> be a different matter. The tax edictum, which specifies the amount of tax
> (it¹s keyed to the GDP or whatever they call it) per country is sent out in
> February, and the tax is due May first.
>
>
> If so, I'll remit my taxes for 1987 then, unless becoming a citizen involves
> payment of this year's tax upon approval, which I shall certainly do.
>
> ATS: Nova Roma didn¹t exist in 1987... And you¹re off the hook until next
> year anyway. Possibly the aerarium is closed this late in the year, too; when
> I became a citizen, in October of one year, that was the case.
>
> Shoshana
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> ATS
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Shoshana,

Shoshana Hathaway wrote:

> Should my application for citizenship be accepted (I just filed it),

I'll be watching for it. Thank you. You should be getting a message
from one of the censorial scribes within the next few days.

> I will want to pay taxes. However, I don't want to be charged a late
> fee, which wouldn't be fair, since I wasn't a citizen at the
> beginning of your tax year. So, when does your tax year begin?

May 1st. Tax payments are due by April 30th each year, and based on a
rate published by the consuls in January or February.

If you wish to pay for the current tax year I think we still have a
senatus consultum which waives the late fee for newly joined citizens.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Thanks. When (if) I am accepted, I'll find out who to contact about paying for this year, mostly because I firmly believe in supporting organizations that I think merit support in a tangible way.

Shoshana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Ave Shoshana:



You are not responsible for a late fee when remitting your taxes.
Welcome to NR, by the way :>)

Vale
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Shoshana Hathaway"
<shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:

>
> Should my application for citizenship be accepted (I just filed

it), I will want to pay taxes. However, I don't want to be charged
a late fee, which wouldn't be fair, since I wasn't a citizen at the
beginning of your tax year. So, when does your tax year begin?
January 1? If so, I'll remit my taxes for 1987 then, unless
becoming a citizen involves payment of this year's tax upon
approval, which I shall certainly do.

>
> Shoshana
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

F. Galerius Aurelianus Shoshona. Salve.

I would suggest that you consider waiting until the next tax period begins
and arrange to pay your taxes directly to your provincial governor (providing
he or she is willing) so that half of your taxes can be paid into the
provinicial treasury.

Vale.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 I am looking for some form of reference to confirm this. Do you know of any historical,  archeological, or literary reference that can

confirm exactly how a Roman might carry money? I am researching this on my own trying to find some reference or mention of it and

any help would be more than welcome. Thanks

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:50:56 -0400, A. Tullia Scholastica wrote

> > ATS: Rather than correct you, Corde amice, I shall confirm that pockets
> > did not exist in ancient clothing. Generally, a small bag (plenus sacculus
> > est aranearum...) such as those worn by reenactors was used instead.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve Galerius Aurelianus Propraetor America Austrorientalis
Provincia:

I'm not sure what you mean..Half the taxes are reserved for the
provincia to begin with; they have been in the budget since the
establishment of taxation in NR (which is why in part I have
to 'copycat' the previous year's budget as has been implied recently
as if it were some sort of crime on my part :)) This measure is
established by law, and I have no choice, really.

Giving money to the conventus is an option, not a law, and I elected
to copycat that also for the Britannia Conventus, thinking that our
gatherings are important and require some funding (however meager)
to ease the load. This somehow remains unmentioned in this critical
thread of idle magistracies and budgetary 'woes'. No matter, my
conscience is clear :)

Even in my household budget, I generally compare the previous year's
expenses in projecting budget amounts for the future...but perhaps
some people aren't saddled with a limited income, and this concept
is somewhat alien.....anyway.....

The advantage to remitting taxes directly to the governor is that
half the taxes for that year may be retained and this eliminates any
bank/transfer fees in getting funds for the provincia from the
central treasury at a later date.

As a governor, you might want to review some of the legislation,
Galerius.

And at this time, if this, or any new citizen does not wish to pay
taxes, said citizen doesn't have to ...citizenship is not dependent
upon paying one's taxes....but I thought I'd make it clear that
there is no late fee involved. How can a new citizen be 'late' if
they just joined us? Some new citizens want to help the republic
and remit taxes right away, whether they have to or not...very
commendable.

I hope this clarifies issues to atleast a small extent. I shall be
submitting a detailed budget at the end of the year and it is
available for the asking, as it always has been. Usually it is
published on the website; I don't imagine it will be any different
with our new website format.



Vale
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Shoshona. Salve.
>
> I would suggest that you consider waiting until the next tax

period begins

> and arrange to pay your taxes directly to your provincial governor

(providing

> he or she is willing) so that half of your taxes can be paid into

the

> provinicial treasury.
>
> Vale.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve, Consul.

I am aware of the legislation and my recommendation was based on an
understanding of the leges dealing with taxes. I have no more interest in seeing
unnecessary bank fees attached to the transfer of funds from the central
treasury to the provincial treasuries. However, there has never been, to the best
of my knowledge, a set of clear instructions from the central administration
to the provincial governors outlining the procedures to obtain funds. There
has been some discussion on the governors' weblist and it is not difficult for
an intelligent person to prepare a budget to submit to the central
administration to obtain owed monies, based on existing legislation. However, there
is again nothing about whether or not a governor could obtain tax funds that
were owed to the province from previous years when the monies were not claimed
by the governor, at that time.
Much of our legislation is aimed at following historical models and can come
up short when it comes to addressing such issues. Presumably, one could
argue that a current, active governor could request half of all the taxes ever
paid by assidui within his province since the legislation was passed (but not
requested by past governors) providing his or her budget was approved by the
central administration. Would you care to comment on this supposition?

F. Galerius Aurelianus,
Propraetor Austrorientalis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oops, got my dates *all* confused ...but I'm clear on things, thank you.

Shoshana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Rutilio Minervali quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I will meet Faustus with great pleasure, and it will be an honour to
> be his guide in Lutetia; to act in the correct way, maybe Senator
> Scipio will receive him first ?
>
> ATS: He may have moved on to Frankfurt...
>
> I must check my timetable for October tomorrow at my office. And, of
> course, as a matter of great emergency, do some things: buy some
> dictionnaries: French/English, English/French, French/Latin,
> Latin/French, English/Latin, Latin/English..., and review my courses
> books and notes !
>
> ATS: If you do meet him, you¹ll have to add another lexicon to the list:
> Portuguese-French/French-Portuguese. Avitus says thou shalt buy the OLD...and
> you might get it (comparatively) dirt cheap now.
>
> Valete,
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> Diribitor
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes

The site www.roman-britain.org is actually a few years old, but it is an excellent source for all sorts of information on Britannica.

Valete optime
GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS


----- Original Message ----
From: Lucius Curtius Paulus <csaincorona@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 24 September, 2006 11:32:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Totally a diffrent topic

Salve,
I have been tripping on a new website. roman-britain. I found it
really intresting.

http://www.roman- britain.org/
Vale,
Luci




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius Ap. Claudio sal.
>
>...
>
> A more likely explanation may be that candidates often opened their

togae to show the wounds they had received in battle, in order to
prove their services to the republic. When you wear a toga with no
tunica, it is quite easy to throw it open to reveal your bare chest,
arms, or legs, but if you are wearing a tunica you would have to
undress completely in order to do this.

>

Agricola Cordo sal.

Brilliant! Never thought of that.

Here is a photo of a coin purse. It was worn snug on the arm.
http://www.edgarlowen.com/b2492.jpg It is from this page
http://www.edgarlowen.com/tcoins.html

optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola M. Cornelio Felici sal


Everything you need is here: http://www.novaroma.org/taxes-2006.html

You can find the mail address and there is a link to the paypal page,
for those who can use it.

Optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "wuffa2001" <magewuffa@...> wrote:
>
> where does one send in tax by check , i can not find anythink i want
> on the new website.as i do not have a bank acct: i have no card to use
> at paypal.
>
>
>
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
> Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis
>
> House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> magewuffa@...
>

Salvete Omnes!

I'm a new citizen and I'm glad to being admitted.
I've got a question and hope that this is the right place to do it...
I can't create an account in Nova Roma site, and I'm not in the albvm
gentivm. Have to do something? Since I'm new, don't know anything in
matter.

Thanks!

Optime Valete

Salve GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS,
I Really like it. I liked the maps. It is really neat. I wish I
could do one like that. but alsa Roman-California would not be a big
site.
Vale,
Luci




n Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <jbshr1pwa@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes
>
> The site www.roman-britain.org is actually a few years old, but it

is an excellent source for all sorts of information on Britannica.

>
> Valete optime
> GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lucius Curtius Paulus <csaincorona@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 24 September, 2006 11:32:30 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Totally a diffrent topic
>
> Salve,
> I have been tripping on a new website. roman-britain. I found it
> really intresting.
>
> http://www.roman- britain.org/
> Vale,
> Luci
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for the links, I have to admit, I didnt imagine the coin purse to look quite like that nor did I expect them to wear it on the arm.

> Here is a photo of a coin purse. It was worn snug on the arm.
> http://www.edgarlowen.com/b2492.jpg It is from this page
> http://www.edgarlowen.com/tcoins.html
>
> optime vale
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Salve, Celer, et salvete, omnes!
>
> ATS: It¹s always helpful to have greetings and signatures with one¹s name
> so that one can reply properly...
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> I'm a new citizen and I'm glad to being admitted.
> I've got a question and hope that this is the right place to do it...
> I can't create an account in Nova Roma site,
>
> ATS: Just very quickly...Probationary citizens are not allowed to have
> accounts on the wiki.
>
>
> and I'm not in the albvm
> gentivm. Have to do something? Since I'm new, don't know anything in
> matter.
>
> ATS: Probationary citizens are listed in a data base accessible only to
> the censores and censorial scribae. They are not listed in the Album Civium
> or Album Gentium, which are difficult to manage and are in the process of
> being wikified. Citizen images have been imported, as I understand it...now
> for the rest, which needs considerable proofreading, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Optime Valete
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica
Rogatrix et scriba censoris Cn. Equiti Marini
Scriba Praetoris T. Octavi Pii Ahenobarbi



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

I had a few questions regarding chat forums on NR. I see that the ML
has capabilities for chat but I have never seen it set up on any yahoo
lists.

I was wondering if there is any way members of this list and
probationary citizens can access our chat room? For the moment I can
only get in through my login in the album gentium and did not see chat
on the menu in the main NR site. On the other hand I may be asleep and
missed something.

Thanks,

QSP

Salva Pauline,

The chat function and many other functions were made "owner/moderator only"
back a few years ago when they were abused by people. They can't be
regulated any other way, so the praetores decided to effectively disable
them. Many of the sodalites chose the same course of action.

I recommend that those people desiring a real-time interaction use one of the
well-established chat clients like AIM or Yahoo Messenger.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

"Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> writes:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I had a few questions regarding chat forums on NR.

Salve Corde, et salvete quirites,

I'm going to snip with extreme prejudice here. I will try to answer every
question. If I inadvertently cut one away, please just ask again.

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:

> "Accumulate money until we think
> we have enough to buy whatever we decide to buy at a later date" is not
> what I'd call a long-term financial plan,

It's as much of one as I could get the Senate to agree to Corde. I wish my
successors better luck.

> Perhaps it will cost millions, but how exactly do we know that?

Rough order of magnitude estimates for the cost of desirable land plus
functional and beautiful public buildings. The only way it could *not* cost
millions would be for us to erect our public buildings as quonset huts on the
current ager publicus in far west Texas.

> Has anyone actually done the arithmetic?

Not in detail, no. But I create rough order of magnitude estimates for other
purposes often enough that I can say with confidence that the combination of
land, buildings, and public utilities needed for this venture will run into
well over one million dollars.

> But even assuming your estimate is right, I think it would be desirable
> to bring some greater clarity to the long-term plan, simply because this
> would give people more faith in the project in which they are being asked
> to invest.

I agree. I invite the Consuls to do this.

> Does the failure of the Eagle show that investment in providing immediate
> benefits to citizens is an ineffective economic policy,

It seems to.

> or does it simply
> show that a nice printed magazine is not the type of immediate benefit that
> our citizens want?

It was the thing that most people wanted back when several options were
discussed.

> I'd like to see the next annual budget
> accompanied by a speech explaining what economic decisions have been made
> in preparing it and what reasoning lies behind those decisions.

I think that would be a very good thing. Consuls have to hit the ground
running with economic policy. It's complicated by the fact that often a new
consul will have *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have
had any experience with the budget process.

Vale, et valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

As much as I enjoy chatting (when the conversation is good), I am limited due to the adaptive software I must use. I cannot use web based chat of any kind, and most IM services don't play nice with my software. I'm told that MSN messenger does, and I'd be willing to download and learn the thing, but I can use IRC. So, if there are any rooms where Nova Romans tend to gather (officially or unofficially) I would be delighted to learn about it!

Thanks, a very happy

G. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iunius Marino censori quiritibus sal.

Scripsisti: "It's complicated by the fact that often a new consul will have *just* joined the
senate upon election, and will not have had any experience with the budget process."

How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum? Doesn't one become a member of the
Senate as a Curule Aedile?

Vale et valete.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Corde, et salvete quirites,
>
> I'm going to snip with extreme prejudice here. I will try to answer every
> question. If I inadvertently cut one away, please just ask again.
>
> "A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:
>
> > "Accumulate money until we think
> > we have enough to buy whatever we decide to buy at a later date" is not
> > what I'd call a long-term financial plan,
>
> It's as much of one as I could get the Senate to agree to Corde. I wish my
> successors better luck.
>
> > Perhaps it will cost millions, but how exactly do we know that?
>
> Rough order of magnitude estimates for the cost of desirable land plus
> functional and beautiful public buildings. The only way it could *not* cost
> millions would be for us to erect our public buildings as quonset huts on the
> current ager publicus in far west Texas.
>
> > Has anyone actually done the arithmetic?
>
> Not in detail, no. But I create rough order of magnitude estimates for other
> purposes often enough that I can say with confidence that the combination of
> land, buildings, and public utilities needed for this venture will run into
> well over one million dollars.
>
> > But even assuming your estimate is right, I think it would be desirable
> > to bring some greater clarity to the long-term plan, simply because this
> > would give people more faith in the project in which they are being asked
> > to invest.
>
> I agree. I invite the Consuls to do this.
>
> > Does the failure of the Eagle show that investment in providing immediate
> > benefits to citizens is an ineffective economic policy,
>
> It seems to.
>
> > or does it simply
> > show that a nice printed magazine is not the type of immediate benefit that
> > our citizens want?
>
> It was the thing that most people wanted back when several options were
> discussed.
>
> > I'd like to see the next annual budget
> > accompanied by a speech explaining what economic decisions have been made
> > in preparing it and what reasoning lies behind those decisions.
>
> I think that would be a very good thing. Consuls have to hit the ground
> running with economic policy. It's complicated by the fact that often a new
> consul will have *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have
> had any experience with the budget process.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

Salve Luci Iuni,

Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...> writes:

> Iunius Marino censori quiritibus sal.
>
> Scripsisti: "It's complicated by the fact that often a new consul will have
> *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have had any experience
> with the budget process."
>
> How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum?

Yes, but it doesn't guarantee entry into the senate.

> Doesn't one become a member of the Senate as a Curule Aedile?

No. Only with praetor or higher does one gain automatic admittance to the
senate.


CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Iunius Marino Censori sal.

Can one become a consul without first becoming a praetor? Are there any magistracies
besides the senior two that are ex officio, non-permanent members of the Senate?

Vale.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Luci Iuni,
>
> Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...> writes:
>
> > Iunius Marino censori quiritibus sal.
> >
> > Scripsisti: "It's complicated by the fact that often a new consul will have
> > *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have had any experience
> > with the budget process."
> >
> > How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum?
>
> Yes, but it doesn't guarantee entry into the senate.
>
> > Doesn't one become a member of the Senate as a Curule Aedile?
>
> No. Only with praetor or higher does one gain automatic admittance to the
> senate.
>
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

Salve!

I think only army officers used that kind, but I am not sure.

Optime vale

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "drumax" <drumax@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the links, I have to admit, I didnt imagine the coin
purse to look quite like that nor did I expect them to wear it on the arm.
>
> > Here is a photo of a coin purse. It was worn snug on the arm.
> > http://www.edgarlowen.com/b2492.jpg It is from this page
> > http://www.edgarlowen.com/tcoins.html
> >
> > optime vale
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Luci Iuni,

Lucius Iunius wrote:

> Can one become a consul without first becoming a praetor?

Yes. Currently the requirement to run for consul is that one must have
served as tribune, curule aedile, praetor, or provincial governor, if
I'm recalling correctly.

> Are there
> any magistracies besides the senior two that are ex officio,
> non-permanent members of the Senate?

No senate seat is confirmed until the censors explicitly do so. So it's
possible for someone to be elected praetor or consul or censor, spend
their time in office in the senate, and then have to leave if their
membership hasn't been confirmed by censors while they're there.

Vale,

-- Marinus

> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Iunio quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Iunius Marino censori quiritibus sal.
>
> Scripsisti: "It's complicated by the fact that often a new consul will have
> *just* joined the
> senate upon election, and will not have had any experience with the budget
> process."
>
> How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum? Doesn't one become a
> member of the
> Senate as a Curule Aedile?
>
> ATS: Nope. One becomes a member of the senate by being elected praetor
> or consul, or by being adlected from certain other offices which one has held
> a minimum of six months. (propraetura, aedilitas, etc., if memory serves).
> We do not follow the cursus strictly, though there are certain requirements
> for holding office. These were detailed in Consul Modianus¹ call for
> candidates the other day. Further information may be obtained by consulting
> the relevant leges in the Tabularium.
>
> Vale et valete.
>
> Cura(te) ut valea(ti)s optime!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Gnaeus
> Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve Corde, et salvete quirites,
>> >
>> > I'm going to snip with extreme prejudice here. I will try to answer every
>> > question. If I inadvertently cut one away, please just ask again.
>> >
>> > "A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:
>> >
>>> > > "Accumulate money until we think
>>> > > we have enough to buy whatever we decide to buy at a later date" is not
>>> > > what I'd call a long-term financial plan,
>> >
>> > It's as much of one as I could get the Senate to agree to Corde. I wish my
>> > successors better luck.
>> >
>>> > > Perhaps it will cost millions, but how exactly do we know that?
>> >
>> > Rough order of magnitude estimates for the cost of desirable land plus
>> > functional and beautiful public buildings. The only way it could *not*
>> cost
>> > millions would be for us to erect our public buildings as quonset huts on
>> the
>> > current ager publicus in far west Texas.
>> >
>>> > > Has anyone actually done the arithmetic?
>> >
>> > Not in detail, no. But I create rough order of magnitude estimates for
>> other
>> > purposes often enough that I can say with confidence that the combination
>> of
>> > land, buildings, and public utilities needed for this venture will run into
>> > well over one million dollars.
>> >
>>> > > But even assuming your estimate is right, I think it would be
>>> desirable
>>> > > to bring some greater clarity to the long-term plan, simply because this
>>> > > would give people more faith in the project in which they are being >>>

asked

>>> > > to invest.
>> >
>> > I agree. I invite the Consuls to do this.
>> >
>>> > > Does the failure of the Eagle show that investment in providing
>>> immediate
>>> > > benefits to citizens is an ineffective economic policy,
>> >
>> > It seems to.
>> >
>>> > > or does it simply
>>> > > show that a nice printed magazine is not the type of immediate benefit
>>> that
>>> > > our citizens want?
>> >
>> > It was the thing that most people wanted back when several options were
>> > discussed.
>> >
>>> > > I'd like to see the next annual budget
>>> > > accompanied by a speech explaining what economic decisions have been >>>

made

>>> > > in preparing it and what reasoning lies behind those decisions.
>> >
>> > I think that would be a very good thing. Consuls have to hit the ground
>> > running with economic policy. It's complicated by the fact that often a >>

new

>> > consul will have *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have
>> > had any experience with the budget process.
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete,
>> >
>> > CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve

"No. Only with praetor or higher does one gain automatic admittance to the
senate."


I thought the lex that grated Praetors or higher into the Senate was repealed during last years elections?
and from January 1 of this year on the only way in to the Senate was through the Censors office?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus<mailto:gawne@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: How Nova Roma spends tax revenues


Salve Luci Iuni,

Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...<mailto:iunius_verbosus@...>> writes:

> Iunius Marino censori quiritibus sal.
>
> Scripsisti: "It's complicated by the fact that often a new consul will have
> *just* joined the senate upon election, and will not have had any experience
> with the budget process."
>
> How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum?

Yes, but it doesn't guarantee entry into the senate.

> Doesn't one become a member of the Senate as a Curule Aedile?

No. Only with praetor or higher does one gain automatic admittance to the
senate.

CN.EQVIT.MARINVS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Romans

FYI From Roman Days 2759

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: MIke Daniels<mailto:arklore70@...>
To: romandays@yahoogroups.com<mailto:romandays@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [romandays] Roman Days Video



Robert,
awesome video. Love the music as well.
v/r
Mike

Robert Wear <rwear@...<mailto:rwear@...>> wrote:
I made a sort of recruitment video using footage from Roman Days 2006
to get more folks to go to events with us. A high res version MAY run
on our College TV network. Take a look and feel free to distribute.
Its about 5:50min if anybody wants it for a group website or something
I can make minor adjustments.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1209156155<http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1209156155>

Sextus Galerius Dolabella
Robert Wear

Coh I Volunum






Titus Minicius Pancuius
COH II, Italica Civium Romanorum




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43290/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains>. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/>.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Pauline,

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus wrote:

[quoting me]

> "No. Only with praetor or higher does one gain automatic admittance
> to the senate."
>
>
> I thought the lex that grated Praetors or higher into the Senate was
> repealed during last years elections? and from January 1 of this year
> on the only way in to the Senate was through the Censors office?

The new law made permanent menbership in the senate independent of
election. But even if the censors don't choose to adlect an elected
praetor or consul or censor into the senate, that magistrate is a voting
member of the senate for as long as they hold office.

Vale,

-- Marinus

> I was wondering if there is any way members of this list and
> probationary citizens can access our chat room? For the moment I can
> only get in through my login in the album gentium and did not see chat
> on the menu in the main NR site. On the other hand I may be asleep and
> missed something.

Years ago, we used a chat system that some free service had
made available. But it had a few problems - any name could be
made up on the spot (thus there was a lot of impersonation);
upon joining, someone would see the previous conversation (thus
conversations that had been made with the expectation of privacy
were revealed); and there was no list of persons currently present,
therefore one could lurk for hours and watch someone else's
conversation.

Because of the privacy and security problems with the free
service, we dumped it, and moved to a proprietary chat that
I wrote that was integrated with the Album Civium login. By then,
some of the most active chat participants (Fimbria, Livia Marcia,
Ericius, ...) had left us for other reasons, and the chat died.

For a while we tried to organise recurring chats on Market Days,
but these were sparsely attended, and eventually forgotten.

Perhaps we should re-institute this tradition? We can
establish a fixed time each nundinium - and post announcements
as it approaches - when people are most encouraged to attend.

We should start by selecting a system. Some features that are,
I think, essential:

- real, multi-platform client software, not a HTML page
that's repeatedly reloaded

- ability to have long names (unlike IRC which limits one to nine
characters, no spaces!)

- ability to register one's name to prevent impersonation

- a permanent location or "room", called "Nova Roma" or something like it

- ability to register operators, to kick and ban malefactors.

Is anyone familiar enough with the various systems to be able to
recommend one?

Valete, Octavius.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Lucius Iunius wrote:

> How is this possible? Isn't there a cursus honorum?

We have only the requirement that the would-be consul served in *some* elected
office beforehand; but it is not necessarily one that bestows Senate membership.
I was curious as to how many were elected Consul without previously being
in the Senate, and as to how many were Praetor beforehand, so I gathered together
some entries from our Annals into the "Consul (Nova Roma)" article on the web
site, and compiled this summary:

==List of Consuls of Nova Roma==

As of {{2006}}, 17 individuals have been Consul of Nova Roma.
* Three have held the office twice.
* Eight (47%) served as Praetor before becoming Consul. (indicated with '''PR.''')
* Three (18%) were not members of the Senate before being elected Consul. (indicated with **)
* One is no longer a citizen.

> Doesn't one become a member of the Senate as a Curule Aedile?

No - Praetor, Consul, Censor, traditionally, are the offices that have
come with an automatic Senate membership.

Vale, Octavius.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Salvete all!
Thanks to all of you who answered my gmail query. I appreciate it! I'll be gmail-ing all over the place now :-)
Valete,
Diana



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Really nice! I'm sad that I couldn't be there this year.
Vale,
Diana



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Wish I could have been there. It looks like you had lots of fun
indeed, and the music is cool too. I'll try my best to be there next
year! Any such reenactment in Provincia Helvetica?????

Tit. Minicius Flamininus.

Salve,

I quite liked the proprietary chat you created, Octavius. Only Citizens were
able to join, and it was very usable. I'd pop in every now and again and was
disappointed to discover it "just missing" at one point. Any chance of that
coming back??

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


In a message dated 9/26/2006 6:13:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:


Perhaps we should re-institute this tradition? We can
establish a fixed time each nundinium - and post announcements
as it approaches - when people are most encouraged to attend.

We should start by selecting a system. Some features that are,
I think, essential:

- real, multi-platform client software, not a HTML page
that's repeatedly reloaded

- ability to have long names (unlike IRC which limits one to nine
characters, no spaces!)

- ability to register one's name to prevent impersonation

- a permanent location or "room", called "Nova Roma" or something like it

- ability to register operators, to kick and ban malefactors.

Is anyone familiar enough with the various systems to be able to
recommend one?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I quite liked the proprietary chat you created, Octavius. Only Citizens were
> able to join, and it was very usable. I'd pop in every now and again and was
> disappointed to discover it "just missing" at one point. Any chance of that
> coming back??

We could try that again, certainly. It was a bit clumsy-looking, but had the
major advantage of being tied to our login database and was therefore
accessible to citizens only.

I'll talk with the Magister and see what we can do...

Vale, O.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Salve,

I'd also like to participate in an NR chat.


Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://minucia.ciarin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hucke
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Chat



> I quite liked the proprietary chat you created, Octavius. Only Citizens were
> able to join, and it was very usable. I'd pop in every now and again and was
> disappointed to discover it "just missing" at one point. Any chance of that
> coming back??

We could try that again, certainly. It was a bit clumsy-looking, but had the
major advantage of being tied to our login database and was therefore
accessible to citizens only.

I'll talk with the Magister and see what we can do...

Vale, O.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Spectati Cives

Has anybody any information concerning Roman gardening? Books, information, anything?

Me and my sister would like to start doing something of the kind...so any help is welcome!

Thanking you all in advance

Gallus Solaris Alexander


------------------------------------------------------
Salva il tuo preventivo Direct Line e assicurati lo sconto extra 5+5% sulla Rc auto, entro il 30 Settembre!
http://click.libero.it/direct_line3

Salvete omnes,

I just want to thank Censor Marinus and Censor Octavius for their feedback regarding the chat. I would certainly agree that it would be fun to get that going again and perhaps many of our citizens could participate with new interest. I have nice memories of the chat when I first started in Nova Roma. I will leave it up to our computer gurus on which system is best to implement.

Regards,

QSP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was under the impression that the Senate has been limited to 32 members total based on legislation passed last year. For a new Senator to be installed, an older Senator would have to voluntarily resign from the Senate, be removed, or the tax base would have to dramatically improve before anyone else could be admitted to the Senate. Is this correct or incorrect?

F. Galerius Aurelianus


-----Original Message-----
From: gawne@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: How Nova Roma spends tax revenues


Salve Luci Iuni,

Lucius Iunius wrote:

> Can one become a consul without first becoming a praetor?

Yes. Currently the requirement to run for consul is that one must have
served as tribune, curule aedile, praetor, or provincial governor, if
I'm recalling correctly.

> Are there
> any magistracies besides the senior two that are ex officio,
> non-permanent members of the Senate?

No senate seat is confirmed until the censors explicitly do so. So it's
possible for someone to be elected praetor or consul or censor, spend
their time in office in the senate, and then have to leave if their
membership hasn't been confirmed by censors while they're there.

Vale,

-- Marinus



Yahoo! Groups Links







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Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE !

Welcome back, Annia Minucia.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
Salve,

I'd also like to participate in an NR chat.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://minucia.ciarin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hucke
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Chat

> I quite liked the proprietary chat you created, Octavius. Only Citizens were
> able to join, and it was very usable. I'd pop in every now and again and was
> disappointed to discover it "just missing" at one point. Any chance of that
> coming back??

We could try that again, certainly. It was a bit clumsy-looking, but had the
major advantage of being tied to our login database and was therefore
accessible to citizens only.

I'll talk with the Magister and see what we can do...

Vale, O.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








NOVI ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A good book about Roman Gardening from a botanist stand point which is a good companion to the is The Gardens of Pompeii, by Wilhelmina Jashemski, is Gardens of Pompeii by Annamaria Ciarallo. CiaralloÂ’s book is a wonderful addition to JashemskiÂ’s book because Ciarallo doesnÂ’t focus on the paintings and sculptures that were found in PompeiiÂ’s gardens or on their architectural setting; her book is about the plants that were once grown in those gardens.

If I remember this site has info on Roman Gardens:

http://www.gardenvisit.com/got/4/8.htm

http://www.gardenvisit.com/got/4/3.htm

though all the photos arenÂ’t working.

http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Roman-Gardens-Linda-Farrar/dp/0750924608

Link above is a book about Roman Gardens by Linda Farrar that might be of help a well.

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:27:44 +0200, sa-mann\@libero\.it wrote

> Spectati Cives
>
> Has anybody any information concerning Roman gardening? Books, information, anything?
>
> Me and my sister would like to start doing something of the kind...so any help is welcome!
>
> Thanking you all in advance
>
> Gallus Solaris Alexander
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Salva il tuo preventivo Direct Line e assicurati lo sconto extra 5+5% sulla Rc auto, entro il 30 Settembre!
> http://click.libero.it/direct_line3
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus Gallo Solario Alexander. Salve.

The most detailed information on gardening in ancient Rome dealt with the Gardens of Lucullus in Rome and the various gardens attached or within homes in Pompeii. I would recommend you seek out the work of Patrick Bowe who released a large book of Roman gardens from the Getty Society. Three other authors who have done some good works on Roman gardens are Linda Farrar, Anna Maria Ciarallo, and Wilhelmina Jashemski; although I must confess to know their books only through magazine articles & bibiliographies. The classic texts on Roman farming including vegetable gardens would be Cato the Elder & Varro. These could give you quite a bit of information on tools, viniculture, and horticulture. Also, read books on Roman cooking like The Classical Cookbook, Around the Roman Table, Roman Cookery, and The Philosophers Cookbook. This will give you information on what to grow in regards to herbs and vegetables. Many books can be obtained through your local library's InterLibrary Loan office where you can request books that are not available in your own library. The sodalites dealing with Roman Cooking might also provide you with useful information on establishing a garden with Roman features.

Vadite in pace Cereris.


-----Original Message-----
From: sa-mann@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 8:27 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Help Roman gardening


Spectati Cives

Has anybody any information concerning Roman gardening? Books, information,
anything?

Me and my sister would like to start doing something of the kind...so any help
is welcome!

Thanking you all in advance

Gallus Solaris Alexander


------------------------------------------------------
Salva il tuo preventivo Direct Line e assicurati lo sconto extra 5+5% sulla Rc
auto, entro il 30 Settembre!
http://click.libero.it/direct_line3





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Thanks!

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://minucia.ciarin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: iulius sabinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Chat


SALVE !

Welcome back, Annia Minucia.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
Salve,

I'd also like to participate in an NR chat.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://minucia.ciarin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hucke
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR Chat

> I quite liked the proprietary chat you created, Octavius. Only Citizens were
> able to join, and it was very usable. I'd pop in every now and again and was
> disappointed to discover it "just missing" at one point. Any chance of that
> coming back??

We could try that again, certainly. It was a bit clumsy-looking, but had the
major advantage of being tied to our login database and was therefore
accessible to citizens only.

I'll talk with the Magister and see what we can do...

Vale, O.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

NOVI ROMANI !
Add the new logo and link for the Magna Mater Project support page to your websites.
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/draft.htm

"Every individual is the arhitect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


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PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:

> I was under the impression that the Senate has been limited to 32 members
> total based on legislation passed last year.

The Lex Popillia Senatoria requires that the maximum size of the Senate
be set at 15% of the tax paying (assidui) population. Last year's census
established that we had 238 assidui. Therefore the maximum size of the
Senate until the conclusion of the next census shall be 36 (not 32) Senators.

> an older Senator would have to voluntarily resign from the
> Senate, be removed, or the tax base would have to dramatically improve
> before anyone else could be admitted to the Senate.

Yes, that's pretty much the situation. The censors *can* add members to the
senate in order to fill vacant seats, but the maximum number of permanent
senators (not including those magistrates who have not been made permanent
senators but have the right to vote in the senate) is fixed after each
census.

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salve
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:
"No senate seat is confirmed until the censors explicitly do so. So it's
possible for someone to be elected praetor or consul or censor, spend
their time in office in the senate, and then have to leave if their
membership hasn't been confirmed by censors while they're there."

I'm just curious, on what basis the censors confirm or deny senate seats for elected magistrates, and are non elected citizen given senate seats or not.
Vale
Q.Fabius Sanga



---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

Imperium when bounded to a provincia is only given by the Senate.

The Imperium 'overall Republic' is granted by the people, when summoned on
a Comitia by a magistrate with the proper auspices (at least, the Republican
view. Surely on king times the Imperium were given by the Comitia Curiata)

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/9/26, C. ARMINIVS. RECCANELLVS <c.arminius.reccanellus@...>:

>
> EDICTVM.PROPRÆTORICIVM.XXV (A C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVSVII)EDICTVM.PROPRÆTORICIVM.XXXII (A
> C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS XIV)
> CAIVS.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS.PROPRÆTOR.BRASILIÆ.OMNIBVS.CIVIBUS.S.P.D
>
> By this edictum, and using my Imperium (given to my by Senatus e
> Populusque Romanum), I decide:
>
> I nomeate, to the positions of LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS and SCRIBA
> PROPRAETORIS AD LATINITATEM, the citizen TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS.
>
> DATVM.SVB.MANV.MEA.A.D.VI.KAL.OCTOBRAS.MMDCCLIX.A.V.C
>
> C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
> PROPRAETOR.PROVINCIAE.BRASILIAE
> QUAESTOR.NOVAE.ROMAE
> SCRIBA
> "Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
>
> =========================================================================
>
> EDICTVM.PROPRÆTORICIVM.XXXII (A C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS XIV)
> CAIVS.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS.PROPRÆTOR.BRASILIÆ.OMNIBVS.CIVIBUS.S.P.D
>
> Por meio do presente, e utilizando o Imperium que me foi conferido pelo
> Senado e pelo Povo de Roma, decido:
>
> Tendo em vista seu interesse nos assuntos provinciais, nomeio para os
> cargos de LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS e SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS AD LATINITATEM, o
> cidadão TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS.
>
> DATVM.SVB.MANV.MEA.A.D.VI.KAL.OCTOBRAS.MMDCCLIX.A.V.C
>
> C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
> PROPRAETOR.PROVINCIAE.BRASILIAE
> QUAESTOR.NOVAE.ROMAE
> SCRIBA
> "Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quintus Fabius Sanga <quintusfabiussanga@...> writes:

> I'm just curious, on what basis the censors confirm or deny senate seats
> for elected magistrates, and are non elected citizen given senate seats or
> not.

Here's the current law:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Popillia_senatoria_%28Nova_Roma%29

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

EDICTVM•PROPRÆTORICIVM•XXXII (A C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS XIV)
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRÆTOR•BRASILIƕOMNIBVS•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

By this edictum, and using my Imperium (given to my by Senatus
Populusque Romanum), I decide:

I nomeate, to the positions of LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS and SCRIBA
PROPRAETORIS AD LATINITATEM, the citizen TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS.

DATVM•SVB•MANV•MEA•A•D•VI•KAL•OCTOBRAS•MMDCCLIX•A•V•C

C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

======================================================================

EDICTVM•PROPRÆTORICIVM•XXXII (A C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS XIV)
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRÆTOR•BRASILIƕOMNIBVS•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

Por meio do presente, e utilizando o Imperium que me foi conferido
pelo Senado e pelo Povo de Roma, decido:

Tendo em vista seu interesse nos assuntos provinciais, nomeio para os
cargos de LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS e SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS AD
LATINITATEM, o cidadão TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS.

DATVM•SVB•MANV•MEA•A•D•VI•KAL•OCTOBRAS•MMDCCLIX•A•V•C

C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

Iunius Marino Censori sal.

Scripsisti: "The Lex Popillia Senatoria requires that the maximum size of the Senate be set
at 15% of the tax paying (assidui) population. Last year's census established that we had
238 assidui. Therefore the maximum size of the Senate until the conclusion of the next
census shall be 36 (not 32) Senators."

So should there be a significant drop in the number of assidui would the censors be
obligated to remove senators, or could the Senatus remain above 15% of the assidui
provided that the senatores were created prior to the drop?

Vale.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:
>
> > I was under the impression that the Senate has been limited to 32 members
> > total based on legislation passed last year.
>
> The Lex Popillia Senatoria requires that the maximum size of the Senate
> be set at 15% of the tax paying (assidui) population. Last year's census
> established that we had 238 assidui. Therefore the maximum size of the
> Senate until the conclusion of the next census shall be 36 (not 32) Senators.
>
> > an older Senator would have to voluntarily resign from the
> > Senate, be removed, or the tax base would have to dramatically improve
> > before anyone else could be admitted to the Senate.
>
> Yes, that's pretty much the situation. The censors *can* add members to the
> senate in order to fill vacant seats, but the maximum number of permanent
> senators (not including those magistrates who have not been made permanent
> senators but have the right to vote in the senate) is fixed after each
> census.
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

Salve Luci Iuni,

Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...> writes:

> So should there be a significant drop in the number of assidui would the
> censors be obligated to remove senators,

No. But no more could be added.

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salvete,

(Although I may have some grudge on this subject since Lex Arminia Senatoria
was revoked.)

But the most important discussion is not Senatores, but making the Senate
undertake these long term planings, like its function on Ancient.

Valete,
L. Arminius faustus


2006/9/26, Lucius Iunius <iunius_verbosus@...>:

>
> Iunius Marino Censori sal.
>
> Scripsisti: "The Lex Popillia Senatoria requires that the maximum size of
> the Senate be set
> at 15% of the tax paying (assidui) population. Last year's census
> established that we had
> 238 assidui. Therefore the maximum size of the Senate until the
> conclusion of the next
> census shall be 36 (not 32) Senators."
>
> So should there be a significant drop in the number of assidui would the
> censors be
> obligated to remove senators, or could the Senatus remain above 15% of the
> assidui
> provided that the senatores were created prior to the drop?
>
> Vale.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... writes:
> >
> > > I was under the impression that the Senate has been limited to 32
> members
> > > total based on legislation passed last year.
> >
> > The Lex Popillia Senatoria requires that the maximum size of the Senate
> > be set at 15% of the tax paying (assidui) population. Last year's
> census
> > established that we had 238 assidui. Therefore the maximum size of the
> > Senate until the conclusion of the next census shall be 36 (not 32)
> Senators.
> >
> > > an older Senator would have to voluntarily resign from the
> > > Senate, be removed, or the tax base would have to dramatically improve
> > > before anyone else could be admitted to the Senate.
> >
> > Yes, that's pretty much the situation. The censors *can* add members to
> the
> > senate in order to fill vacant seats, but the maximum number of
> permanent
> > senators (not including those magistrates who have not been made
> permanent
> > senators but have the right to vote in the senate) is fixed after each
> > census.
> >
> > CN�EQVIT�MARINVS
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CN. Equitus Marinus

Salve

Thank you, that cleared the matter nicely.

Vale

Q. Fabius Sanga

>Hello,

I embarked on the very project you are interested in in May. I
basically started by identifying what types of plants would survive
in my region, New York. I accomplished this through web searches and
basic Roman History books. The plant selection phase was interesting.
Since I live in NY I had to research plants that would have been used
in Britain and Germany plus the home land. I used the Book Pompeii: A
guide to the ancient city by Nappo. The pictures of the walls and
paint colors was very helpful.

I then spent the summer constructing an enclosed garden.All of this
in hopes of bringing me a little closer to feeling what the ancients
felt.Since water was always a center piece of the ancient garden, I
installed a 150 gallon pond and placed my Lararium near it. One
interesting note, since water was a central focus of ancient gardens,
I was curious as to what the fountain or pond would have been stocked
with( human beings being what we are inevitably always have to put
something in their water) Since Kaoi are a oriental creation I
searched for what the Romans did,,,turns out freash water eels seem
to have been the choice. Apparently, people become so attached to
their eels that they would put jewelry on them and weep when they
passed.

I then searched for every piece of pottery that matched the ancient
style.By the way, statuary is expensive so try yard sales and flea
markets. If you send me an email I'll try to get a pciture out of the
results.

Marcus Vipsanius Pollio

> Spectati Cives
>
> Has anybody any information concerning Roman gardening? Books,

information, anything?

>
> Me and my sister would like to start doing something of the

kind...so any help is welcome!

>
> Thanking you all in advance
>
> Gallus Solaris Alexander
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Salva il tuo preventivo Direct Line e assicurati lo sconto extra

5+5% sulla Rc auto, entro il 30 Settembre!

> http://click.libero.it/direct_line3
>

Salvete Cives Novae Romae,

In February of 1998 I saw an announcement on a Pagan newsgroup about
a new organisation dedicated to the restoration of Roman culture
and religion. I was thrilled; I had, for some time, been fascinated
by Rome, and felt a stronger attraction to its gods than to those of
my native land.

I read every page of the web site, and printed and mailed an application
the same day, becoming one of the first ten citizens of Nova Roma.
I chose to take the name "Marcus Octavius Germanicus". The praenomen
"Marcus" begins with the same letters as my birth name; and
the nomen "Octavius" was chosen to honour Augustus.

I took the cognomen "Germanicus" to honour a fallen general. I had
recently watched "I, Claudius", and was saddened to see such a fine
man - who would have, by all rights, become Emperor - be murdered
through witchcraft and poison, with the aid of his own foul son
Caligula. (At least, that is how Graves chose to portray it).
Additionally, this name was given as an example on the web site as
an appropriate cognomen for someone of my ethnicity.

However, I learned some time ago that it had not been an appropriate
choice. Names ending in "-icus" signify conquerors, and I am
certainly no conqueror of the German people. Only due to inertia
did I keep the name, even knowing that it was ahistorical.

Furthermore, the similarity of my name with that of one of our
Patres Patriae caused confusion. Early this year, the newly
elected newsletter editor was told by a predecessor to contact
"Senator Germanicus" for access to the web site; he wrote to
my similarly-cognominated colleague, and, failing to gain what
he needed, stepped down from the position.

It is time to end the confusion, and undo the error that I
made eight years ago. My colleague, Censor Marinus, has consented
to this change.

Henceforth I shall be known as

MARCUS OCTAVIUS GRACCHUS.

I have chosen this cognomen for several reasons.

The initial letter is the same as my former cognomen; this will
ease the transition.

This is a name that will not cause confusion. There is no
other Gracchus in the Senate, nor has there ever been a magistrate
of Nova Roma with this cognomen.

The name is well known to most of us because of the Tribunes
Tiberius and Gaius Sempronius Gracchus, who were murdered while
agitating for reforms that would benefit the lower classes.
I wish to commemorate this proud history.

Finally, one of those that contributed to the downfall of Tiberius
Gracchus was a fellow Tribune named Octavius. By combining these names
into one, I symbolically mend the rift between the Octavii and the
Sempronii Gracchi.

Valete,
Marcus Octavius Gracchus,
(formerly Marcus Octavius Germanicus),
Censor.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"What is the difference? What indeed is the point? ...The
clarity is devastating. But where is the ambiguity? It's
over there, in a box." -- J. Cleese

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Octavio Graccho salutem dicit

Let me be one of the first to honor your name change, and for very noble
reasons.

Vale:

Modianus

On 9/26/06, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete Cives Novae Romae,
>
> In February of 1998 I saw an announcement on a Pagan newsgroup about
> a new organisation dedicated to the restoration of Roman culture
> and religion. I was thrilled; I had, for some time, been fascinated
> by Rome, and felt a stronger attraction to its gods than to those of
> my native land.
>



[snip]
>
> Finally, one of those that contributed to the downfall of Tiberius
> Gracchus was a fellow Tribune named Octavius. By combining these names
> into one, I symbolically mend the rift between the Octavii and the
> Sempronii Gracchi.
>
> Valete,
> Marcus Octavius Gracchus,
> (formerly Marcus Octavius Germanicus),
> Censor.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE MARCE OCTAVI !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
> Henceforth I shall be known as
>
> MARCUS OCTAVIUS GRACCHUS.
>
> I have chosen this cognomen for several reasons.
> Finally, one of those that contributed to the downfall of Tiberius
> Gracchus was a fellow Tribune named Octavius. By combining these
names into one, I symbolically mend the rift between the Octavii and
the Sempronii Gracchi.>>>

This is a wonderful thing. I will not take it only symbolically.
With your decision you realy mend the rift between the Octavii and
the Sempronii Gracchi. It's interesting how after so many years all
the things are corrected.
I wish you long life, with honour.

OPTIME VALE,
IVL SABINVS

Vale Marcus Octavius Germanicus!

Salve Marcus Octavius Gracchus!

Valetudo Quod Fortuna!

A fine story of a name and renaming.

You continue to show the honor I've seen over the years.

In amicus quod fidelis,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piparbarbus
Cives LXXVIII

Aut mulsum aut bellum!
(Either mead, or war!-)

SALVE ET SALVETE !

Today is the first anniversary of my dear friend Marcus Iulius' son.
I want to wish him with this ocassion :

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUR SON, AMICE! ALL THE BEST TO PERUSIANUS MINOR !

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Salve Marce Octavi Gracche,

Congratulations on your name change and thanks for your write up!
I guess we have all learned a great deal more about choosing Roman
names over the past two years and I remember that I wanted to use
the name Britannicus not realizing that I had to be a conqueror of
the British. Field Marshall Idi Amin already claimed the title, "
Conqeror Of The British Empire " in recent history.(grin) All the
best!

Regards,

QSP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stefn Ullerius Venator
Piperbarbus" <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> Vale Marcus Octavius Germanicus!
>
> Salve Marcus Octavius Gracchus!
>
> Valetudo Quod Fortuna!
>
> A fine story of a name and renaming.
>
> You continue to show the honor I've seen over the years.
>
> In amicus quod fidelis,
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piparbarbus
> Cives LXXVIII
>
> Aut mulsum aut bellum!
> (Either mead, or war!-)
>

VICESIMA QUARTA
The Newsletter of
LEGION XXIV - MEDIA ATLANTIA

SEPTEMBER 2006

Gallio Velius Marsallas / George Metz
Praefectus - Commander
13 Post Run - Newtown Square PA 19073-3014
610-353-4982
legionxxiv@... www.legionxxiv.org

Commilitones:

AD SIGNA !! FOR THE COLUMBUS DAY PARADE OCT 9
Anthony Sama, the Coordinator for the Annual New York Columbus Day parade, has engaged Legion XXIV and other Legions to participate as a Roman Legionary contingent to march in the Parade up 5th Avenue, on Monday, Oct 9, Noon to about 3pm. We should arrive by 10 AM at the "staging" point on 45th Street between 5th and 6th Avenues for preparation and getting to the step-off point. We would off-load our gear and then convey our vehicles to a secured parking area near the end of the parade route at 79th Street and then be brought back to the 45th Street staging point.
Step-off time for the parade is 12-Noon, but it is expected that our unit/division would not move until circa 1PM? So just like all armies from time in memorial, it will be a "hurry-up and wait" situation. The Parade is about 1.75 miles long, just a "warm-up" march after breakfast for Roman Army Legionaries?

This parade in NYC is the single biggest celebration of Italian culture and history, not only in New York and across the nation, but also in the world. The Parade is televised in New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and internationally across Italy and parts of Europe. They are asking for a legion not only of infantry, but also of civilians and merchants. Please Respond and Let Me Know if you would be able to take part in displaying the glory of ancient Rome in this great traditional event. Legion III is fielding a large contingent and the Ludus Magnus Gladiators will be there as well. I have myself and a couple of others from Leg-XXIV signed-up, but we should have more if at all possible. The Legion Castra is available for Sunday and Monday nights with real beds for up to four commilitonis, and the floor is also there for the hard-core soldiers. Most of us should have this day off from work and the opportunity to prance up 5th Avenue in full Roman regalia in the presence of the cheering sidelines, with VCR's whirring and cameras clicking should make for an event you would not want to miss. Anthony is planning on having a horse-mounted Julius Caesar lead the way and Legion XXIV is providing the outfit for Caesar. The horse will by led by an attendant pony-ride style, so most anyone could do this, but if you have some "riding" experience that would be a plus and this may be a great opportunity for you.

The coordinators and contact persons are Anthony Sama and Albert Catalantotto of the Columbus Citizens Foundation, Inc. 8 East 69th Street New York, NY 10021 Phone: 212.249.9923 x242 Fax: 212.737.4413 Cell for Al Catalanotto, 917-558-5555.
Looking forward to being with you in what could well become a great annual demonstration of Roman reenactment in the U.S.

CALL FOR DEFENSE OF FORT NO. 4 - OCT 14 - 15
Eric Jadaszewski, jrjada@..., is calling the Legion "To Arms" for the 2nd Annual Time Line event at the Fort at No. 4 in Charlestown, NH on Oct 14, 15, 2006. The Fort is a very reenactor friendly site, scenic, has good facilities and always a lot of fun. Please contact Him and your Commander if you expect to attend. Mark your calendars and more details should follow. Legion XXIV will have a presence at this event and participation by our members is earnestly desired.

TEUTOBERG VALD 9AD FILMING
There is no further information on this event. The Teutoberg Forest filming has been "put on hold", so we hear. There is no idea if this means they'll want us suddenly in a month or two, or if it won't happen at all. Any Romans or Germans who are interested in participating can still contact Heidi Christenson at 202-857-7535, hchriste@.... We do not have any solid idea of what level of accuracy (if any!) the directors may be looking for, so the best bet is to aim for a look
of 9 AD if you can, and bring whatever you have if you can't. Hopefully we'll get enough advance warning to not ruin too many
of our schedules! Stay tuned.

UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS for LEGION XXIV and OTHER EVENTS for 2006

*** Sept 30 Outdoor Lecture-Demo, Dickenson Col, Carlisle, PA 12N - 2PM

*** Oct 9 Columbus Day Parade, 5th Avenue, New York City 12Noon - 3PM



*** Oct 14 - 15 Time Line Event, Fort No.4, Charlestown, NH



*** Mar 22 - 25 Defense of Fort Lafe, Lafe, AR a total immersion event, closed to the public, with a gate house, towers, walls and bunk house.


Thanking you for your continued support of Legion XXIV, I remain;

Yours in the Bonds of Ancient Rome

Gallio / George ** Quintus / David




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve Aurelianus Propaetor America Austrorientalis et Salvete
Omnes:

My comments and answer to your question below:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

>
> Salve, Consul.
>
> I am aware of the legislation and my recommendation was based on

an

> understanding of the leges dealing with taxes. I have no more

interest in seeing

> unnecessary bank fees attached to the transfer of funds from the

central

> treasury to the provincial treasuries.

Pompeia: Good. Thank you for the clarification.


However, there has never been, to the best

> of my knowledge, a set of clear instructions from the central

administration

> to the provincial governors outlining the procedures to obtain

funds. There

> has been some discussion on the governors' weblist and it is not

difficult for

> an intelligent person to prepare a budget to submit to the

central

> administration to obtain owed monies, based on existing

legislation.

Pompeia: How typically kind! But I work cheap :>) Glad I dont get
my self esteem from you Governor :>)


However, there

> is again nothing about whether or not a governor could obtain tax

funds that

> were owed to the province from previous years when the monies

were not claimed

> by the governor, at that time.

Pompeia: And from my hand, you will not see any such lex
promulgated. Not this Consul. The Senate is responsible for the
Governors...they serve at the Senates pleasure and they are subject
to accountability to the Senate.

Oh we have a lex that says 50% of the monies belong to the
province, sure, but this was passed after the Senate approved of
taxation, not before, which is the Senate's constitutional
right...and there was alot of discussion on this, by the way.

I do not believe in legislation where the Senate is rubber stamped
into rotely giving funds to any governor, because they are
legislated into doing so. This should be handled on a case-by-case
basis...what does the governor intend to do with the money? How
long has the governor been in office?

I think this provides a reasonable buffer of protection of the
populus' tax money. It is not too much to ask to be accountable to
the august body who granted you imperium in the first place. Some
requests will be granted and some won't...the way it should be.

Even provincial publicani are accountable to the Senate...again, the
realm of taxation monies is minded by the Senate. Not begrudged,
but minded with due prudence.

> Much of our legislation is aimed at following historical models

and can come

> up short when it comes to addressing such issues.

Pompeia: That darned 21 Century anyway........:>)

Presumably, one could

> argue that a current, active governor could request half of all

the taxes ever

> paid by assidui within his province since the legislation was

passed (but not

> requested by past governors) providing his or her budget was

approved by the

> central administration. Would you care to comment on this

supposition?

Pompeia: Again on a case-by-case basis. And I personally like to
see monies awarded to governors who have served for a while. But
this doesn't mean I won't present a gubernatorial request to the
Senate if its accompanied with a plan of projects and projected
expenses (this does not necessary equate with a projected provincial
budget)

We did award one governor money this year upon her request and
submission of a plan of expenditures, less transfer fees. This is a
matter of public record. This was I believe on the same agenda as
the appointment of your governorship. I guess you missed it. If you
remember when you were appointed governor you should be able to look
up the details. The Tribunes did post the Senate results to either
this forum or the Announce forum...they've been very attentive in
this regard.

>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus,
> Propraetor Austrorientalis

Valete
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Consul

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete

Varro's De Re Rustica is really not much help on the subject.
Columella's De Re Rustica is more extesnive than Cato's De
Agricultura. Plinius Secundus' Historia Naturalis has sections on
agriculture (where he often refers to Cato's work) and on garden
plants, and a lot of other information that would be related to
Roman gardening. Cato's De agricultura concerns running an estate.
He talks about farming methods, viticulture and orchards. Some
bread recipes, a few rites, a couple of magical cures for humans and
oxen. I don't recall him saying much if anything on the garden
though, other than cabbages. Apparently Cato liked his cabbage.

Valete
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Gallo Solario Alexander. Salve.
>
> The most detailed information on gardening in ancient Rome dealt
with the Gardens of Lucullus in Rome and the various gardens
attached or within homes in Pompeii. I would recommend you seek out
the work of Patrick Bowe who released a large book of Roman gardens
from the Getty Society. Three other authors who have done some good
works on Roman gardens are Linda Farrar, Anna Maria Ciarallo, and
Wilhelmina Jashemski; although I must confess to know their books
only through magazine articles & bibiliographies. The classic texts
on Roman farming including vegetable gardens would be Cato the Elder
& Varro. These could give you quite a bit of information on tools,
viniculture, and horticulture. Also, read books on Roman cooking
like The Classical Cookbook, Around the Roman Table, Roman Cookery,
and The Philosophers Cookbook. This will give you information on
what to grow in regards to herbs and vegetables. Many books can be
obtained through your local library's InterLibrary Loan office where
you can request books that are not available in your own library.
The sodalites dealing with Roman Cooking might also provide you with
useful information on establishing a garden with Roman features.
>
> Vadite in pace Cereris.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sa-mann@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Help Roman gardening
>
>
> Spectati Cives
>
> Has anybody any information concerning Roman gardening? Books,
information,
> anything?
>
> Me and my sister would like to start doing something of the
kind...so any help
> is welcome!
>
> Thanking you all in advance
>
> Gallus Solaris Alexander
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Salva il tuo preventivo Direct Line e assicurati lo sconto extra
5+5% sulla Rc
> auto, entro il 30 Settembre!
> http://click.libero.it/direct_line3
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
___
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Gn Equitio Marino Censor Salutem:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Corde, et salvete quirites,
>
> (snip)
>
> "A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:
>
> > "Accumulate money until we think
> > we have enough to buy whatever we decide to buy at a later date"

is not

> > what I'd call a long-term financial plan,
>
> It's as much of one as I could get the Senate to agree to Corde.

I wish my

> successors better luck.

Pompeia: Thank you, and thank you for the invitation below. But I
hope you equally appreciate in your good wishes that subsequent
administrations may not eclipse your efforts, nor can they be
reasonably expected to, given that this is the best you could do as
Consul. Every year is different and sometimes additional piorities
prevail.

I have an uncommitted 150.00 USD rolled from an unnecessary expense
to a future outreach project. This was agreed upon by the Senate
this year..a matter of archived record. I haven't got a clue what
we should do with that amount of money right now...other than sit on
it, hopefully build on it a bit and formulate a plan. It's not a
whole pile of dough, so I don't exactly have a hole in my pocket.
But of course I'm open to ideas.

I could build a more specific set of future plans and propose them
I suppose, which may or may not be realized in future
administrations for some time due to financial constraint, but we
already have plans established from past administrations, so we may
as well have patience and grow $$$ a bit, instead of changing plans
right away.

To illustrate a point, I have investments tucked away for
myself.... I can't tell you exactly how I am going to spend the
money..but I still feel it is worthwhile to save and invest.

Also, this Consulship has had IRS tax papers to contend
with ..something other administrations were not obligated to.
Continuation of our nonprofit status seemed to me to be a priority
over and above more more future plans, ...and between some info from
the Praetor (thanks Galerius), one Tribune (thanks Piscine) a few
phone calls on my part, and communication with Patricia Cassia we
ascertained what we needed to do in this regard and did it. I am
outside the USA so the help was appreciated, and it did not all
materialize overnight.

I hope this enlightens the people a little further with respect to
this year's financial activity, or lack thereof, depending on your
point of view in dealing with money.

Vale

>
> > Perhaps it will cost millions, but how exactly do we know that?
>
> Rough order of magnitude estimates for the cost of desirable land

plus

> functional and beautiful public buildings. The only way it could

*not* cost

> millions would be for us to erect our public buildings as quonset

huts on the

> current ager publicus in far west Texas.
>
> > Has anyone actually done the arithmetic?
>
> Not in detail, no. But I create rough order of magnitude

estimates for other

> purposes often enough that I can say with confidence that the

combination of

> land, buildings, and public utilities needed for this venture will

run into

> well over one million dollars.
>
> > But even assuming your estimate is right, I think it would be

desirable

> > to bring some greater clarity to the long-term plan, simply

because this

> > would give people more faith in the project in which they are

being asked

> > to invest.
>
> I agree. I invite the Consuls to do this.
>
> > Does the failure of the Eagle show that investment in providing

immediate

> > benefits to citizens is an ineffective economic policy,
>
> It seems to.
>
> > or does it simply
> > show that a nice printed magazine is not the type of immediate

benefit that

> > our citizens want?
>
> It was the thing that most people wanted back when several options

were

> discussed.
>
> > I'd like to see the next annual budget
> > accompanied by a speech explaining what economic decisions have

been made

> > in preparing it and what reasoning lies behind those decisions.
>
> I think that would be a very good thing. Consuls have to hit the

ground

> running with economic policy. It's complicated by the fact that

often a new

> consul will have *just* joined the senate upon election, and will

not have

> had any experience with the budget process.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

Salvette,
Well I have returned once again from campaining again (got deployed
once again). I think I have been stabilised for 5 years this time. I
look forward to working within our great nation and growing my home
provinciae. If I can be of any service to this great nation, feel
free to call upon me. I remain loyal and steadfast to the Senate.

Marcus Pontius Sejanus

My mother discovered "Lays of Ancient Rome" and sent it to me. It's a
lovely edition from the early 1900s.

My question relates to the contents of the book itself: I'm been
trying to figure out and I can find no referent to who "false Sextus"
is in Horatius and The Battle at Lake Regillus.

Who is "false Sextus" who "wrought the deed of shame" and what deed
had he wrought?

Vestinia Caprenia

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

M. Hortensia Censori Gn Equitius,Cordo Quiritibusque spd;
well this discussion has caught my eye & I quite agree with
Cordus. So I am thinking what expenditure would be good for the
quirites.
1. paying for a central server & designer for quality online
temples. This is pontiff Metellus's idea & I think a fine
one. Cives everywhere can access it. We will be pleasing the gods &
its a pious act. I'd certainly like to see the Capotiline Triad &
temples to Mens, etc.
2. This idea led me to another. As most of us want lararia
but don't have the skill to make one. Why doesn't NR go into the
business of making them: miniature Roman temples. There are plenty
of pagans & Rome & Greece lovers who would buy them - increasing our
treasury.
These are just 2 ideas, but I invite others to join me. We
have a beautiful coin minted this year. There is "Vox Romana"
podcast. Academia Thules is thriving. The private sector of NR cives
are doing well!
bene valete in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior
Producer "Vox Romana"

Salve Octavius,
The good news is that at least you don't have to get your monogram changed :-)
Vale,
DOA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Domina Vestinia:

The Battle of Lake Regillus rings a bell, as his in mydoes "False Sextus" I'll look up the citation in my copy of MaCauley this weekend and get back to you on this.

Vale,

Decimus Suetonius Lupus
"Vestinia, called Vesta" <optia_vesta@...> wrote:
My mother discovered "Lays of Ancient Rome" and sent it to me. It's a
lovely edition from the early 1900s.

My question relates to the contents of the book itself: I'm been
trying to figure out and I can find no referent to who "false Sextus"
is in Horatius and The Battle at Lake Regillus.

Who is "false Sextus" who "wrought the deed of shame" and what deed
had he wrought?

Vestinia Caprenia

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



Yahoo! Groups Links













Michael P. Orley

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ave Sabine amice,

thanks a lot for remembering :-)

vale
M IVL PERVSIANVS
P.S. Do you know it's Francesco Totti's birthday as well? ;-))

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

>
> SALVE ET SALVETE !
>
> Today is the first anniversary of my dear friend Marcus Iulius' son.
> I want to wish him with this ocassion :
>
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUR SON, AMICE! ALL THE BEST TO PERUSIANUS MINOR !
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>

---Salve Hortensia Maior:

I'll file these ideas below for Senate discussion.

Vale
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:

>
> M. Hortensia Censori Gn Equitius,Cordo Quiritibusque spd;
> well this discussion has caught my eye & I quite agree

with

> Cordus. So I am thinking what expenditure would be good for the
> quirites.
> 1. paying for a central server & designer for quality

online

> temples. This is pontiff Metellus's idea & I think a

fine

> one. Cives everywhere can access it. We will be pleasing the gods

&

> its a pious act. I'd certainly like to see the Capotiline Triad &
> temples to Mens, etc.
> 2. This idea led me to another. As most of us want lararia
> but don't have the skill to make one. Why doesn't NR go into the
> business of making them: miniature Roman temples. There are plenty
> of pagans & Rome & Greece lovers who would buy them - increasing

our

> treasury.
> These are just 2 ideas, but I invite others to join me.

We

> have a beautiful coin minted this year. There is "Vox Romana"
> podcast. Academia Thules is thriving. The private sector of NR

cives

> are doing well!
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> Marca Hortensia Maior
> Producer "Vox Romana"
>

Salve,

Well, it will take a bit of time to adapt ourselves, I used to call
´Germanicus´ all times, and I confess we associate much more the third name
with the person.

What we just must have in mind is to not become these chosings a ´political
correct subject´, dening the agnomens associated with conquers (Germanicus,
Africanus, Britanicus, Coriolanus, Macedonicus, Asiaticus...), since nowdays
we associate much more with an honour to the famous roman, not to the
conquest itself.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/9/27, Diana Aventina <dianaaventina@...>:

>
> Salve Octavius,
> The good news is that at least you don't have to get your monogram changed
> :-)
> Vale,
> DOA
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Fauste

I agree that there has to be flexibility in these matters but I feel
that the current censorial staff and the Censors exercise sound
judgement in respect of name issues. I speak from personal experience
about their reasoning, accuracy and flexibility.

The civic albums are on view to the entire world and in my opinion
numerous citizens claiming a cognomen that, to those aware of such
matters, is indicative of conquest of an area or people is
somewhat "odd" and could mark us down even more in the minds of
academics as a bunch of delusional kooks.

Attarcting academics into NR is not the be all and end all of course,
but presenting a serious and accurate image is better than a comedic
free for all with names. When you add to that the various errors that
were committed over the spelling of names, the lists looked like a
dogs breakfast of ignorance. Steps are being taken I know to
encourage greater accuracy and this is a necessary and good thing.

However I think that equally you are correct concerning honour to
famous figures. There is a way though to do that by carrying the same
nomen and cognomen, but any additional honourific extra cognomen I
feel should be avoided until earned. Of course if we are to be
accurate we can never earn those cognomen you mention that denote
conquest.

Anyway, we can't have all you plebs running around giving yourself
airs and graces with important sounding names now can we? ;) Back to
the Subura with you! :)

Vale
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> Well, it will take a bit of time to adapt ourselves, I used to call
> ´Germanicus´ all times, and I confess we associate much more the

third name

> with the person.
>
> What we just must have in mind is to not become these chosings a

´political

> correct subject´, dening the agnomens associated with conquers

Salve Vestinia Caprenia!

>Who is "false Sextus" who "wrought the deed of shame" and what deed
>had he wrought?

He was Sextus Tarquinius and the deed was the rape of Lucretia, which led to the exile of Tarquinius Superbus and the beginning of the Republic. Legend has it that when Lucretia killed herself out of shame, Iunius Brutus took up the dagger and vowed to put an end to a the kings of Rome. Needless to say, he made good on his oath.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/livy-rape.html

Vale bene,
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

A couple of hours ago I read the message about October being a month
in which one should pour libations to Mars. I did some thinking; here
is the result.

In amicus - Venator

An Ode to Mars
(1st stanza is repeated as the chorus)

Mars, I greet thee, as a soldier
Mars, I greet thee, as one who served
Took the burden, of my people
Did my duty, as all men should

At Beginning, of all the Worlds
Primal Chaos, coalesced
In the Order, from this Making
The Gods were formed, in eldest days

Mother Gaia, Father Heaven
Came together, quickened all life
Titans, Furies, Other Daemons
Gods, Men and Beasts, Birds, Fish and Plants
- Chorus -

In the Roman, heart and spirit
Divinities, did become known
Alike and not, to other Gods
Were called by them, by Man Found Names

Mars is one such, Holy Being
Keeper, Warder, and Warrior
Took the Burden, of his God Clan
Did His Duty, and tales were told
- Chorus -

In eldest days, of Latin tribes
Mars became known, as Flock Warder
And the shepherds, in the meadows
Knew His guidance, gave Him their thanks

As Wealth and name, of Rome did grow
And other folk, became aware
Warding broadened, become warlike
Shepherd's long staff, became spear shaft
- Chorus -

As pastures green, were left behind
And Militia, became Legions
Mars marched with men, across the world
With grim purpose, He blessed their arms

And at the heart, of warrior
There lies a truth, embodied by
The life of Mars, His progression
From Flock Warder, to Battle God
- Chorus -
- Chorus -

Fernbank Museum Celebrates World Premiere of Imperial Rome-December
3, 2006; 12-5 p.m.

F. Galerius Aurelianus Prop AAe S.P.D.

I now have a tentative date for a provincial gathering at the
Fernbank Museum of Natural History in Atlanta. The date is Sunday,
December 3, 2006. Here is a snippet from the museum website:

"Family Holiday Event: Celebrating Ancient Empires
Sunday, December 3, noon to 5 p.m.
Start the holiday season with a special celebration inspired by
Imperial Rome with family-friendly fun including crafts, activities
and performances. Plus, there will be special appearances by the
Gwinnett Gladiators mascot, Maximus, and Roman soldiers and
gladiators."

"ATLANTA (September 13, 2006) — Join Fernbank Museum on Saturday,
September 23, for the world premiere of the special exhibition,
Imperial Rome. Featuring more than 450 artifacts that range from
small coins to larger-than-life statues, Imperial Rome showcases
the brilliance of ancient Rome during its glory days. The unveiling
of this exhibition includes artifacts from more than 15 Italian
museums and other lenders with several artifacts that have never been
exhibited in the United States."

I would like to get some comments from provincial citizens about
this date. My opinion is that it is a very good opportunity to pass
on some information on Nova Roma to the community in Atlanta and the
surrounding area. We would be able to wear our Roman clothing and
have the opportunity to meet other Roman enthusiasts. We can also
ask the marketing director if we could have the opportunity to
participate by offering a Roman domestic sacrifice (of wine and
incense as part of the day's activities).

Let me hear from you at padruigtheuncle@... or on the America
Austrorientalis website at yahoogroups.

Valete.

Thanks!

V

--- Tita Artoria Marcella <icehunter@...> wrote:

> He was Sextus Tarquinius and the deed was the rape of Lucretia,
> which led to the exile of Tarquinius Superbus and the beginning of

__________________________________________________
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>Thanks!

>V

You're welcome!

Artoria


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marce Octavi Gracche!

Permit me to commend you upon your excellent taste in names.

As to healing a rift between your honorable gens and mine, I entertained none
such. These little tiffs happen.

Vale! Habites in luce deorum!
Gaia Sempronia Graccha Volentia


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By Ceres and Minerva, and their everlasting blessings,

Citizens, I candidate myself to the office of Praetor.

As you know, I was praetor once in 2005, until personal pressing issues have
made me step down the public life. I was plebeian aedile, propraetor and
tribune in 2003 - 2004. I´m currently a member of the Senate.

Everyone knows my deep interest about NR law, and my willingness to help
the organization of the Tabularium. My knowledge of Ancient Rome is also a
credential that I will have plenty opportunities to make NR organization
closer the ancient way.

As moderator of NR list, my liberality makes me expecially suitable to judge
well the content of the posts, respecting always freedom and the importance
of the discussion in the forum.

So, as in the many magistratures past, I will be confident my experience and
efforts for the Republic will be useful again in other magistrature.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRAETOR•BRASILIAE•OMNIBVS•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

I'm here today to announce my candidacy for position of Tribune of
the Plebs.

I'm a Citizen of Nova Roma since July of MMDCCLVII.A.V.C (2004) and I
am Assidui for this year of MMDCCLIX.A.V.C (2006). In this moment I'm
i) Propraetor Provinciae Brasiliae
(http://www.marcius.felix.nom.br/main.php), ii) Quaestor Novae Romae
(with a "consistent, meticulous work in managing the tax
data"[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/45391%5d, as said
by Consul Pompeia) and iii) Scriba of Titus Marcius Felix's work in
Aquila Journal.

I know I can do a good job as Tribune of the Plebs and I ask for your
vote!

Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

> "Lucius Arminius Faustus" wrote:
> Citizens, I candidate myself to the office of Praetor.

I here to suport Faustus' candidacy to the office of Praetor.

With an excellent job as Praetor, Propraetor and Senator, I know that
he will be able to do a very good job as Praetor again!

I'll vote him!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

I see that the specific questions have been answered, but I thought I'd just take this opportunity to explain in general terms how the senate is composed, since the system has recently changed (or, rather, changed *back* to what it was in antiquity) and is quite complex.

I invite you to imagine a list of names. This is the list of senatores. The list is compiled every census-time by the censores. In between one census and the next, it is never changed.

How do the censores compile the list? They begin with the list which their predecessors compiled last time. They cross off the names of any senatores who have died or lost their citizenship since last time. They *may* also, if they both agree, cross out the names of any senatores who they think have behaved in a way which brings the senate into disrepute. If they do this, they must explain publicly why they are doing it.

Next, they see how many gaps there are on the list. In ancient times the maximum size of the senate was 300. As Cn. Equitius has been explaining, our maximum number varies from one census to the next, depending on the total number of assidui.

Having identified the gaps, the censores then fill them. When choosing whose name to add, they choose from a number of different pools of candidates. I'll come back to this later, but first I need to explain something else.

What I've been talking about so far is the list of senatores. Everyone on that list is a senator, and anyone who is not on that list is not a senator. *However*, it is not only senatores who can attend meetings of the senate.

This is where it gets a little confusing, so bear with me and I'll try to keep it as clear as I can. Several different types of people are entitled to participate in meetings of the senate. First, the senatores themselves (i.e. everyone on that list). Secondly, anyone who is *currently* a dictator, censor, consul, praetor, tribunus plebis, or flamen Dialis. Thirdly, anyone who *has been* a dictator, censor, consul, or praetor.

There is an exception to the third group. If someone has been, for example, consul, and *used* to be on the list of senatores, but was removed by the censores on the grounds of bad conduct, then that person cannot participate in meetings of the senate.

Now, back to the list. I said that the censores, when adding new names to the list, choose from particular pools of candidates. First, they have to look at anyone who has held the office of dictator but has not yet been made a full-blown senator. If anyone fits this description, the censores must add him to the list, *unless* one or both of them think that he has behaved in a way which would bring the senate into disrepute.

After filling up some of the gaps with people who have held the office of dictator, the censores next look at those who have held the office of censor but have not yet been added to the list of senatores. If there are any of these, they must be used to fill the next gaps, unless (as above) one or both of the censores thinks they have behaved in a way which would bring the senate into disrepute.

If any gaps remain, the censores next look at the people who have been consul but have never been added to the list, and after them they look at people who have been praetor, then those who have held various lower offices, all in the same way as described above. Finally, if any gaps still remain, the censores can choose anyone they like to fill those gaps.

In reality, people who have been dictator, censor, and consul will very probably already have been added to the list. It should be very unusual for someone to make it as high as consul without already having been made a senator. So in practice the censores will usually be taking their first choices from the pool of former praetores.

So you can see that no office brings with it automatic membership of the senate. However, offices from praetor upwards do bring an automatic right to participate in meetings of the senate, which is nearly the same thing. The only real difference is this: once your name has been put on the list, it is much harder to remove, because it can only be removed with the agreement of both the censores. Until your name is on the list, you may be able to attend meetings and vote, but you can be prevented from doing so even if only one of the censores decides to prevent you.

You can also see that, in almost all cases, the people who get added to the list of official senatores will be people who have already been participating in meetings of the senate for a while. They're in a sort of in-between state: by virtue of their election to office, they have the right to participate in meetings, and they can also expect, as long as they behave well, to be promoted to full senatores in due course; but they're not quite there yet.

It is quite complex, and it will take a while for us all to get used to, but I hope that explanation gives you a general idea about how it works. Of course, as Pompeja Minucia has already said, you can always get the definitive answer from the lex which sets out all these rules, which is available here:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Popillia_senatoria_%28Nova_Roma%29

AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM XXV-APPOINTMENT, DEFINITION, AND
REMOVAL OF OFFICES

Edictum propraetoricum 2759 about Appointment of Praefectus Regio
Georgia, duties of the Praefectus Regio, and Removal of Scriba
Propraetoris

I, Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, Propraetor America Austrorientalis,
hereby appoint

Appius Galerius Aurelianus as Praefectus Regio Georgia (encompassing
the states of Georgia and Alabama).

I, Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, Propraetor America Austrorientalis,
hereby define

The duties of a Praefectus Regio of America Austrorientalis, which
shall be:

a. to respect & obey the Constitution & By-laws of Nova Roma;
b. to report the conditions of the Regio to the Propraetor;
c. to encourage active participation by the citizens in the Regio
via meetings and events;
d. to resolve any difficulties or disputes that may arise between
citizens of the Regio by discussion and compromise; subject to
Appeal to the Propraetor;
e. to assist the Propraetor in the establishment of the borders or
boundaries of any Oppidia or Municipia within the Regio as may be
defined by the appropriate legislation;
f. to sit in the Provincial Council and to offer wise advice to the
Propraetor for the good of the province;
g. to encourage the citizens of the province to become assidui by
paying the annual tax to Nova Roma for the improvement of the
province and the model republic of Nova Roma;
h. to pay appropriate honors & deference to the Immortal Gods at
public ceremonies & rites of the province.

I, Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, Propraetor America Austrorientalis,
hereby remove

Servia Iulia Caesaris Metelliana (also known as Servia Iulia Caesar
Valeriana)
as Scriba Propraetoris of America Austrorientalis and offer her the
gratitude of the province for her service.

This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given under my hand, this day 27 September 2759 AUC, being 2006 AD
Gregorian, in the Consulship of C. Fabius Buteo Modianus and Po.
Minucia Strabo.

Salvete,

Reccanellus is the brightest citizen Brasilia has produced since the great
Senator Arminius Maior.

I can�t see a job that fits more in him than tribune.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/9/28, C�ARMINIVS�RECCANELLVS <c.arminius.reccanellus@...>:

>
> CAIVS�ARMINIVS�RECCANELLVS�PROPRAETOR�BRASILIAE�OMNIBVS�CIVIBUS�S�P�D
>
> I'm here today to announce my candidacy for position of Tribune of
> the Plebs.
>
> I'm a Citizen of Nova Roma since July of MMDCCLVII.A.V.C (2004) and I
> am Assidui for this year of MMDCCLIX.A.V.C (2006). In this moment I'm
> i) Propraetor Provinciae Brasiliae
> (http://www.marcius.felix.nom.br/main.php), ii) Quaestor Novae Romae
> (with a "consistent, meticulous work in managing the tax
> data"[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/45391%5d, as said
> by Consul Pompeia) and iii) Scriba of Titus Marcius Felix's work in
> Aquila Journal.
>
> I know I can do a good job as Tribune of the Plebs and I ask for your
> vote!
>
> Valete
> C�ARMINIVS�RECCANELLVS
> ======================
> PROPRAETOR�PROVINCIAE�BRASILIAE
> QUAESTOR�NOVAE�ROMAE
> SCRIBA
> "Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvette,
As I have been deployed for quite sometime, I am a bit out of touch
with the electorial affairs of NR. When are the elections for the
position of propraetor, namely my own province of California. I am
looking to possibly file my own candidacy for that position. If
anyone one has any suggestions on this or wishes to assist, it would
be greatly appreciated.

Marcus Pontius Sejanus

Salve Marce Ponti,

Marcus Pontius Sejanus <legio_vi_tribunis@...> writes:

> When are the elections for the position of propraetor

Propraetors are not elected. They're appointed by the Senate.

If you're interested in getting involved with your province's activities, I
recommend you write to your provincial governor, proconsul Q. Fabius Maximus.
Perhaps he can use your help.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "indyguy301" <indyguy301@...> wrote:

>
> Hello fellow citizens,
>
> I was hoping that one of you (or several of you) could help me: I was
> interested in Late Roman culture and its evolution to the Byzantine
> culture some key interests are culture, customs, food, music and

dress.

>
> Most sources I come across are historical leaving the

cultural/social

> element as a footnote.
>

Bumping this up

EDICTVM•PROPRAETORICIVM•XXXIV (A C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•XVI)
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRAETOR•BRASILIAE•OMNIBVS•CIVIBVS•SPD

Consolitation of Provicial Magistratures

Hereby, and by the Imperium given to me by the Senate and People of Rome, I
decide:

Considering the various edicts appointing and/or removing citizens for/from
several administrative offices, I hereby consolidate the current Provincial
Magustratures, as follows. Any citizens not included in this list should be
considered automatically removed from their offices.

Citizens and their offices:

• TITVS MARCIVS FELIX - Legatus Propraetoris Provinciae Brasiliae;
• PHILIPPVS ARMINIVS CAESAR - Scriba Propraetoris;
• AVLVS HORATIVS SEVERVS - Scriba Propraetoris ad Latinitatem;
• GAIA ARMINIA FLAVIA - Sciba Propraetoris;
• DECIMVS VALERIVS THOMAS BRVNVS - Scriba Propraetoris Procurator Retis;
• TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS - Legatus Externis Rebus and Scriba Propraetoris
ad Latinitatem.

Any conflictant edicts are hereby revoked.

Besides, Provincia Brasilia website at Nova Roma is supposed to be updated
by removing any citizens not mentioned above.

DATVM•SVB•MANV•MEA•A•D•IV•KAL•OCTOBRAS•MMDCCLIX•A•V•C
G•FABIO•BUTEONE•MODIANO•P•MINUCIA•TIBERIA•STRABONE•CONSULIBUS

C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAETOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA

Original text sent to NRBrasil list on IV Kal Octobras MMDCCLIX.
Translated by Titus Arminius Genialis.
Texto original enviado ao grupo NRBrasil em IV Kal Octobras MMDCCLIX.
Traduzido por Titus Arminius Genialis.

_____

De: nrbrasil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nrbrasil@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de
C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 28 de setembro de 2006 17:55
Para: nrbrasil@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [nrbrasil] EDICTVM.PROPRÆTORICIVM.XXXIV (A C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
XVI)


EDICTVM•PROPRÆTORICIVM•XXXIV (A C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS XVI)
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•PROPRÆTOR•BRASILIƕOMNIBVS•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

Consolidação das Magistraturas Provinciais

Por meio do presente, e utilizando o Imperium que me foi conferido pelo
Senado e pelo Povo de Roma, decido:

Tendo em vista os vários editos nomeando e/ou exonerando cidadãos de suas
funções administrativas, serve o presente para consolidar as Magistraturas
Provinciais, conforme abaixo disposto. Quaisquer pessoas aqui não incluídas
não fazem parte da administração provincial, podendo-se entender como
automaticamente exoneradas.

Cidadãos e respectivas funções:

• TITVS MARCIVS FELIX - LEGATVS PROPRAETORIS PROVINCIAE BRASILIAE;
• PHILIPPVS ARMINIVS CAESAR - SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS;
• AVLVS HORATIVS SEVERVS - SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS AD LATINITATEM;
• GAIA ARMINIA FLAVA - SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS;
• DECIMVS VALERIVS THOMAS BRUNUS - SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS PROCURATOR RETIS;
• TITVS ARMINIVS GENIALIS - LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS e SCRIBA PROPRAETORIS AD
LATINITATEM.

Ficam desde já revogados quaisquer editos conflitantes com as disposições
ora apresentadas.

Outrossim, requer-se a alteração da página da Provincia Brasilia no site de
NOVA ROMA, para fins de exclusão, dos campos restritos aos funcionários
provinciais, do nome de quaisquer cidadãos não expressamente mencionados
neste edito.

DATVM•SVB•MANV•MEA•A•D•IV•KAL•OCTOBRAS•MMDCCLIX•A•V•C
G•FABIO•BUTEONE•MODIANO•P•MINUCIA-TIBERIA•STRABONE•CONSULIBUS

C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
PROPRAETOR•PROVINCIAE•BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR•NOVAE•ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE !

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS
<c.arminius.reccanellus@...> wrote:
iii) Scriba of Titus Marcius Felix's work in Aquila Journal.

No conection with the elections.
I don't have the link for the Aquila 2006. Somebody can indicate it ?

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "indyguy301" <indyguy301@...> wrote:

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "indyguy301" <indyguy301@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello fellow citizens,
> >
> > I was hoping that one of you (or several of you) could help me: I was
> > interested in Late Roman culture and its evolution to the Byzantine
> > culture some key interests are culture, customs, food, music and
> dress.
> >
> > Most sources I come across are historical leaving the
> cultural/social
> > element as a footnote.
> >
> Bumping this up
>

Salve!

You might have more luck if you could be more specific in your request
for help. Do you have specific questions that you are trying to
answer? Are you looking for primary or secondary source suggestions?

Optime vale

M. Lucretius Agricola

First Question: Before setting up the lararium are their any rites for
the blessing and consecration of the space and the objects such as
statues??

Second Question: Are the rites of the Idus,Kalends,and Nones provided
at the ritual page from Nova Roma are correct and proper to perform??

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "indyguy301" <indyguy301@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "indyguy301" <indyguy301@>

wrote:

> > >
> > > Hello fellow citizens,
> > >
> > > I was hoping that one of you (or several of you) could help me:

I was

> > > interested in Late Roman culture and its evolution to the

Byzantine

> > > culture some key interests are culture, customs, food, music

and

> > dress.
> > >
> > > Most sources I come across are historical leaving the
> > cultural/social
> > > element as a footnote.
> > >
> > Bumping this up
> >
>
> Salve!
>
> You might have more luck if you could be more specific in your

request

> for help. Do you have specific questions that you are trying to
> answer? Are you looking for primary or secondary source

suggestions?

>
> Optime vale
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola

LOL thanks Lucretius,
I was avoiding being specific because of the spectrum of topics that
draw me. Unfortunately many of the resources that I'm familiar with
pretty much ignore the Byzantines and focus on the decline of the
West. I would like to learn about these Eastern Romans
...Many books I have found are fairly suspect in capturing the
culture: hence hoping that some of you folks may have come across a
few good sources that could put their world into some sort of context