---Salve Saturnine:

Thanks very much. I'll pass this on to my provincial list.

Vale
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Curius Saturninus" <c.curius@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> Here is the announcement from the distributor:
>
> For a short time only, cives in the American provinciae can order

a

> calendar for $16.00,
> a savings of nearly $3.00 (depending on exchange rate at the time

of

> order) over the
> original cost of calendar plus individual shipping, by ordering
> through the new American
> distributor, C Sempronia Graccha Volentia, at tellure AT

earthlink

> DOT net . Be sure to
> put "Calendar Order" in the Subject line. By ordering in bulk,

we

> can pass savings in
> mailing costs on to our valued customers! Please note: this

will

> result in a very slight
> delay in receiving your calendar, so please order as soon as

possible

> in order to take
> advantage of this limited-time offer!
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
>
> Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> gsm: +358-50-3315279
> fax: +358-9-8754751
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---Salvete Honoured Praetors:

If you wish to delete this and the last post of mine from the
archives, you will receive no argument from me.

But I hold no fault against A. Tullia Scholastica, or anyone else
who might think this material is not acceptable for publication or
public broadcast...atleast from an NR perspective, with respect to
those who feel differently. I certainly would hope that citizens
will not judge her qualifications as Praetrix over expressing a
dull opinion on the 'PG rating' of this material.

It is up to you.

Valete
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Pompeia Minucia Strabo
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Given the discussion on whether Martial's works in particular

are somewhat off-colour, I decided to do a little surfing to see for
myself. I remember reading some old English translations of Martial
and I found them to be a bit suggestive, and such that he might be
writing stuff to "get people going", but admittedly its been a few
years and I wanted to read more on the matter from others.

>
> I really don't think that to suggest he is being obcene or in

some spots out and out vulgar is too far off the money....He might
have been an "Eminem" of the Principate maybe (funny, Eminem's real
name is 'Marshall') But this is my personal opinion.

>
> Here are a couple of links which combined discuss translations

of his stuff and opinions, plus give a basic bio.

>
> You can make the decision, but I warn you...if you are easily

offended you might not wish to look at the second link in
particular ....its a blog.

>
>
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial
>
> http://martialis.blogspot.com/
>
> Valete
> Pompeia
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

rates.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete,

I would like to thank all those who have endorsed my candidacy for
Consul. Old friends, new friends, and people I do not even know have
done so. I thank you all for the faith you have placed in me. I only
hope I am given the opportunity to do you proud and serve our faith
Republic once more as Consul.

I have, myself, only a single endorsement to make, and I apologize in
advance if the person receiving it might better have wished that I, whom
so many have villified over the past few weeks, had witheld it. But I
feel it is better to be truthful and open. In truth, I daresay her
modesty would be more in play for such a desire than any base political
calculation.

A. Tullia Scholastica is one of the best Cives we are blessed by the
Gods to be able to count among our ranks. I had the honor of meeting her
at Roman Days a few years ago, and she impressed me as being soft-spoken
yet impressive and full of knowledge and wisdom when she did speak. She
is unassuming, and yet so obviously possesses a love of our Republic and
Roma Antiqua itself that shines forth like a beacon. She is hard
working, and freely shares her vast knowledge of Latin and other things
Roman at the merest suggestion of a question. She will make an
outstanding Praetor, and Nova Roma would be well-served to see her in
office. She is among the best of us.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Consular
Senator

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Flavius_Vedius_Germanicus_(Election_MMDCCLIX)

Thanks for sending this, Im afraid I missed the local Lecture but it did give me a heads up on other Lectures scheduled for 2007

Will

"Timothy P. Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salve Romans

This post mainly applies to those citizens in North America but if
your national Archaeological society has a similar program you might
try and do the same ( unless you already are.)

The Archaeological Institute of America host FREE local lectures
through their local societies. Not all are on Rome but a number are.

"The AIA serves the non-specialist public in two principal ways:
through its magazine Archaeology, and through the lecture program.
Each academic year between September and May, Institute headquarters
in Boston sends three professional archaeologists to lecture to each
of its local societies. Because the local societies are composed of
members of the general public as well as professional archaeologists,
the lecture program provides a unique opportunity for interested non-
professionals to meet practicing archaeologists and to learn of new
discoveries.

AIA lectures are free and bring news of the latest archaeological
discoveries to the public. AIA local societies, located throughout
the United States and Canada, integrate the lectures provided to them
by Institute headquarters with locally sponsored lectures and events.
Contact your nearest local society for more information.
Questions regarding the AIA Lecture Program may be sent to Becky
Donahue, Lecture Coordinator."

I have posted the information on the lecture to be held in
Mediatlantica and we will going to some with other Nova Romans with
dinner after.

To find the lectures in your are check this map:

http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10050

For example this is the listing for Vancouver, BC

Wednesday, November 29, 2006 at 7:30 PM

Elizabeth Bartman, Independent Scholar
Henry Blundell and his Classical Marbles: Archaeology in the Era of
the Grand Tour
Where: TBA

Tuesday, March 06, 2007 at 7:30 PM

Deborah Carlson, Texas A&M University (McCann/Taggart Lecture
A Monumental Cargo: The Roman Column Wreck at Kizilburun, Turkey

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus






---------------------------------
Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new Yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia L.Lucretio spd;
yes I wanted to thank you for the great Macellum page at
the NRWiki. I found out about the splendid %20 discount + they do
special order finishes.
I had my lararium plaque done in gold & it looks great.
Alas they messed up with my Lares, no gold finish; so I'll tell
everyone how they treat this customer.
bene vale
Maior

>
> Salve Maior,
>
> I would like to add (for the benefit of those who might not already
> know) that Sacred Source is an authorized vendor in our Macellum
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Macellum . Details on custom work and
> discount can be found on their page. Look for the link in the

Macellum.

>
> Optime vale!
>
> Agricola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> > I had the double pleasure today of finding my deep

paternal

> > results from the Human Genome Project, which places me in a rare

E3b1

> > category,but which is common for Jews. This goes back about

20,000

> > years to the Near East & before that East Africa. Such a

marvellous

> > feeling to be linked to the past.
> > At the same time my special order penates plaque

arrived from

> > Sacred Source (with NR 20% discount!) So it's very meaningful

for me

> > to honour my family genius and ancestors. I hope others here

will

> > engage in this project. It gives you a palpable sense of the

past.

> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

It is a great honor for both Lucius Arminius Faustus and Marcus Moravius
Piscinus to have the favor of a Vestal. I share in the sentiments written
by Lucia Modia Lupa and encourage the citizens of Nova Roma to vote for
Faustus and Piscinus for Consul.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

On 11/4/06, Samantha <lucia_modia_lupa@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
> I do not typically get involved much in the political side of Nova
> Roma, and more often then not the high activity on the mainlist gets
> away from me.
>
> However, in this case I would like to step forward and join those
> supporting Piscinus and Faustus for consul. I believe the work that
> Faustus has done will benefit us all. Additionally, I believe that
> Piscinus, who often takes time to communicate with people one on one
> and has done a great deal of work in advancing the religio, has the
> dedication and leadership that would be highly beneficial for Nova
> Roma. With the work that he has done on the local level, as well as
> that which has been done to exist those of us who are long distance,
> I believe that he will aid NR into a more active existance in the
> public. He has been a consistant guide for as long as I have known
> him.
>
> I wish them the best for this running and encourage the citizens to
> vote for Faustus and Piscinus for consul.
>
> Valete,
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal
> Sacerdos Diana
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo

You gave sufficient caution to those who would venture
into Martial' s works. If you had posted some of his more
"interesting" works then some eyebrows might have been
raised.

You safely listed two sites for citizens to visit if they
wanted to.

I believe my colleague, and most Nova Romans would
agree that it would take a major event for a Consul to
be censored on this list.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia<mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Epigrams of Martial...to the Praetores


---Salvete Honoured Praetors:

If you wish to delete this and the last post of mine from the
archives, you will receive no argument from me.

But I hold no fault against A. Tullia Scholastica, or anyone else
who might think this material is not acceptable for publication or
public broadcast...atleast from an NR perspective, with respect to
those who feel differently. I certainly would hope that citizens
will not judge her qualifications as Praetrix over expressing a
dull opinion on the 'PG rating' of this material.

It is up to you.

Valete
Pompeia

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Pompeia Minucia Strabo
<pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Given the discussion on whether Martial's works in particular
are somewhat off-colour, I decided to do a little surfing to see for
myself. I remember reading some old English translations of Martial
and I found them to be a bit suggestive, and such that he might be
writing stuff to "get people going", but admittedly its been a few
years and I wanted to read more on the matter from others.
>
> I really don't think that to suggest he is being obcene or in
some spots out and out vulgar is too far off the money....He might
have been an "Eminem" of the Principate maybe (funny, Eminem's real
name is 'Marshall') But this is my personal opinion.
>
> Here are a couple of links which combined discuss translations
of his stuff and opinions, plus give a basic bio.
>
> You can make the decision, but I warn you...if you are easily
offended you might not wish to look at the second link in
particular ....its a blog.
>
>
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial>
>
> http://martialis.blogspot.com/<http://martialis.blogspot.com/>
>
> Valete
> Pompeia
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Iunio quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Iunius Scholasticae sal.
>
> This marks, I believe, the third time that you have insisted that I am
> attempting to start a
> carreer in politics.
>
> ATS: Methinks that you did mention such an interest at some point. It
> isn¹t a crime, you know...for most of the citizenry.
>
>
> This, I assume, from the fact that I have showed some academic
> interest, as well as interest as a citizen, in Nova Roman politics. I cannot
> deny that I am
> interested in *serving* the Republic as soon as I am legally able. I have so
> far only
> considered doing so as you have done to date (in which service, according to
> all reports,
> you have performed excellently)
>
> ATS: Thank you. I have certainly had no complaints about my service to a
> number of magistrates who were/are serving in various capacities.
>
>
> —as a scriba or an accensus or an officer of a sodalitas. I
> have all of my life been interested in macronational politics—
>
> ATS: I haven¹t shared that interest...but I do vote, and try to learn
> about the candidates.
>
>
> I will discuss them with
> anyone who is interested, study them to the best of my ability, advocate
> candidates and
> policies from time to time, and, if ever I am able to get ahold of a
> macronational politician,
>
> ATS: How could you miss coming across one at election time? Good heavens,
> they crawl out of the walls and pound on your doors. Afterwards, though, they
> do disappear...
>
>
> I will question him or her as far as I am able—but I will likely never seek to
> run for a
> macronational office. I am less sure of that statement where Nova Roma is
> concerned, but
> I am certainly not at present maneuvering in anyway for some future bid for
> office.
>
> ATS: Strange things happen.
>
> This also marks, I believe, the second time that I have publicly snapped at
> you for almost
> no reason whatsoever. I don't blame you if that fact has colored your view of
> my
> personality, and I apologize for having done so on both occasions.
>
> ATS: Thank you for your public apology.
>
> I would be genuinely
> interested to know your opinions of the question and follow-up questions that
> Ti.
> Paulinus, C. Equitius, and T. Iulius have been so good as to answer. Please
> do not allow
> two very foolish mistakes on my part to dissuade you from participating. I
> know that you
> are busy, and I appreciate all of the service that you give constantly to Res
> Publica, but this
> discussion pertains very much to the duties of the Praetor, and it would
> benefit very much
> from your input, should you find the time.
>
> ATS: Unfortunately, due to the power outage and disaster declaration in
> my area, I am behind in my teaching, especially with the introductory class.
> Their first test is imminent, even overdue, because of this problem, and I do
> have to deal with the correction of homework before I can send the test. I
> have already committed a great deal of time in order to respond to the
> numerous unwarranted (and in some cases, irrelevant) allegations made against
> me, so I may not be able to do that, and cannot do so before the cista is
> opened for the centuria praerogativa. Rest assured, however, that we are
> quite liberal in our moderation policies, but that there are times when
> messages must be rejected, and times when discussion must be cut off or even
> headed off at the pass. They are few and far between...but if you would like
> to date some nice Baptist ladies, we had a member eager to fix you up with
> them, or if you feel that your soldier needs some postural assistance, we can
> help you there, too. Alternatively, the sodalitas Latina attracts those who
> are peddling Latinas whose clothing budget must be truly skimpy, should your
> tastes run in that direction...but everywhere one may find fake Rolexes,
> easy-rate mortgages, supermarket savings...and the occasional flame war.
>
>
>
> Me paenitet te offendisse. Vale.
>
> ATS: Thank you again for your apology. That was very gracious of you.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica L. Iunio quiritibus S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Iunius Tulliae sal.
>>> > >
>>> > > More gracious with cives, Magistra mea? How very kind
>>> > > to show such leniency to a free and sovereign man when
>>> > > unclamping his tongue a little more quickly.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Moderation does not clamp any tongues...virtually every
>>> moderated
>>> > > message arrives unaltered...unless it comes from a spammer, or yahoo
>>> loses it.
>>> > > As Censor Marinus can tell you, it is policy to be more lenient with the
>>> > > citizens as far as certain issues are concerned. Content isn¹t one of
>>> them,
>>> > > however; we don¹t evaluate citizen messages differently from those
>>> posted by
>>> > > others. Nonetheless, citizens HAVE to obey our laws. Others don¹t, so
>>> things
>>> > > are a bit different. The ML and our other lists are ours; we allow
>>> others on
>>> > > them, but they must keep in line. Some have suggested that only
>>> citizens
>>> > > should be unmoderated at all, and only after a decent interval. We have

had

>>> > > problems on various lists with people lurking around and bursting forth
>>> in a
>>> > > venomous spate out of the blue; we have had spammers, we have had
>>> members
>>> > > whose main aim in life was to start a fight...and that¹s not all.
>>> > >
>>> > > Please note that I do not make policy, and my authority as
>>> praetorian
>>> > > scriba is limited to message approval, and does not extend to removing
>>> members
>>> > > from moderation, or putting them on moderation. I do, however, perform
>>> those
>>> > > functions on other lists that I moderate, including those of which I am

the

>>> > > owner.
>>> > >
>>> > > Did you note my question to the Praetorial candidates?
>>> > > When you've a chance, I'd love to know your answer.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: As I noted in my reply, your question arrived as I was about

to

>>> > > retire, and I could not answer it earlier. Please note, too, that some
>>> of us
>>> > > have other things to do besides answer posts on the ML and elsewhere; in

my

>>> > > case, that also happens to involve writing a test for your class and
>>> > > correcting some homework (though certain parties have not submitted
>>> same...),
>>> > > as well as matters in my macro life. I hope that my reply is sufficient

to

>>> > > answer your question(s); you already have a good start for the NR
>>> political
>>> > > career you apparently intend to pursue, and seem to have the personality

for

>>> > > it.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>>> > >
>>> > > --- "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...
>>> > > <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> >
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica scriba praetoris L. Iunio
>>>>> > >> > quiritibus S.P.D.
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > L. Iunius Praetoribus et Scribis Praetoriis sal.
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Now that I've gained full citizenship, how do I go
>>>>> > >> > about having my status
>>>>>>> > >>> > > changed on the ML
>>>>>>> > >>> > > so that my messages will be posted without first
>>>>> > >> > being approved?
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > ATS: List moderation does not depend on
>>>>> > >> > status as a probationary or full
>>>>>>> > >>> > > citizen, or anything of the sort; it depends on a
>>>>> > >> > combination of duration and
>>>>>>> > >>> > > posting history, though we are more gracious with
>>>>> > >> > citizens than with others.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > There are also errors: A candidate for aedile is
>>>>> > >> > still being moderated,
>>>>>>> > >>> > > though she should have been removed from that long
>>>>> > >> > ago. We scribae cannot
>>>>>>> > >>> > > remove people from moderation, or rather, only
>>>>> > >> > some of us can; the praetores
>>>>>>> > >>> > > control just what a scriba may do, and this year
>>>>> > >> > at least the praetores likely
>>>>>>> > >>> > > are in charge of this.
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Vobis gratias ago, et valete.
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>> > >> > Vale, et valete.
>>>>> > >> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Lucretius Agricola C. Curio Saturnino sal

Please don't forget to update the information in the Macellum, if is
it needed. I'm at your service if you need assistance.

optime vale!



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Curius Saturninus"
<c.curius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> It's my pleasure to announce, that I have now a American distributor
> for the official Nova Roma calendar. If you live in any of the
> American provinces of NR, you can send your order to the local
> distributor. Orders this far sent and any future orders sent from
> American provinces to me will be forwarded to this distributor. So if
> you have placed order to me, don't worry, the order will go to the
> right place.
>
> I'll shortly send here announcement of the distributor with
> instructions and EXTRA OFFER for citizens in American provinces.
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
>
> Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> gsm: +358-50-3315279
> fax: +358-9-8754751
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Maior,

Again you give me a chance to mention useful (I hope) information.

If anyone has trouble with any Macellum vendor, the person to contact
is C. Equitius Cato. He is the curule aedile taking charge of the
Macellum this year.

optime vale, et valete

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia L.Lucretio spd;
> yes I wanted to thank you for the great Macellum page at
> the NRWiki. I found out about the splendid %20 discount + they do
> special order finishes.
> I had my lararium plaque done in gold & it looks great.
> Alas they messed up with my Lares, no gold finish; so I'll tell
> everyone how they treat this customer.
> bene vale
> Maior
> >
> > Salve Maior,
> >
> > I would like to add (for the benefit of those who might not already
> > know) that Sacred Source is an authorized vendor in our Macellum
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Macellum . Details on custom work and
> > discount can be found on their page. Look for the link in the
> Macellum.
> >
> > Optime vale!
> >
> > Agricola
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> > > I had the double pleasure today of finding my deep
> paternal
> > > results from the Human Genome Project, which places me in a rare
> E3b1
> > > category,but which is common for Jews. This goes back about
> 20,000
> > > years to the Near East & before that East Africa. Such a
> marvellous
> > > feeling to be linked to the past.
> > > At the same time my special order penates plaque
> arrived from
> > > Sacred Source (with NR 20% discount!) So it's very meaningful
> for me
> > > to honour my family genius and ancestors. I hope others here
> will
> > > engage in this project. It gives you a palpable sense of the
> past.
> > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> >
>

Salva sis casta Lucia Lupa, teque bona Vesta auctet ope

My great thanks to you, Vestal Modia. Kind Vesta, whose eternal
flame lights the Eternal City, sits at a place of honor in the center
of my home, as I know She is with Faustus as well.

The warmth of Vesta is offered to all alike. I have always tried to
follow Her example when conferring with others.

Gratias maximus tibi ago. Vade in pace Vesta
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha" <lucia_modia_lupa@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete,
> I do not typically get involved much in the political side of Nova
> Roma, and more often then not the high activity on the mainlist

gets

> away from me.
>
> However, in this case I would like to step forward and join those
> supporting Piscinus and Faustus for consul. I believe the work that
> Faustus has done will benefit us all. Additionally, I believe that
> Piscinus, who often takes time to communicate with people one on

one

> and has done a great deal of work in advancing the religio, has the
> dedication and leadership that would be highly beneficial for Nova
> Roma. With the work that he has done on the local level, as well as
> that which has been done to exist those of us who are long

distance,

> I believe that he will aid NR into a more active existance in the
> public. He has been a consistant guide for as long as I have known
> him.
>
> I wish them the best for this running and encourage the citizens to
> vote for Faustus and Piscinus for consul.
>
> Valete,
> Lucia Modia Lupa
> Vestal
> Sacerdos Diana
>

A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
> I notice that a few people have commented on my views about A. Tullia's
> candidacy. I'll try to reply briefly. My replies are not intended to have
> any further influence on the election (if indeed the election is still going
> on) but to contribute to the longer-term discussion.
>
> A. Tullia herself has suggested that my opposition to her candidacy is
> something to do with the fact that she is a woman. This does not, I am sad to
> say, surprise me very much, because she seems to think that whenever anyone
> says anything uncomplimentary about her it is because she is a woman.

ATS: Corde, I don't know where you came up with this, but like so many
misimpressions about me of late, it's just plain wrong. That SEEMS seems to
be wrong, and in fact, IS wrong. The fact of the matter is that no woman
ran for office in antiquity, and any who does so here is by definition
following the laws of Nova Roma, not the mos of Roma antiqua. Most of us
don't happen to think that every last element of the mos should be followed,
including that one. I was merely pointing out that I was violating the mos
merely by running for *ANY* office at all, as many Nova Roman women had done
before me, and I hope will do after me. There are, of course, those here
who think that women citizens should not hold office, sacerdotal or civil,
and even those who think that women citizens should not have the right to
vote, but again, these are elements of the mos which most of us think are
better left behind.

>I trust
> that nobody takes this suggestion seriously.

ATS: So do I, especially since I don't happen to believe it myself.

This is as ridiculous as a similar sentiment from a fellow resident of
my international dormitory in Chicago some years ago: people didn't like
him because he was black. Nonsense. More nonsense, since he not only was
black, he lived in Africa. It's my understanding that a large fraction of
the population of Africa shares this characteristic.

And he seemed nice enough to me...

>
> Pompeja Minucia has made some rather more cogent criticisms of my position,
> and these deserve serious answers. She feels that I have been inconsistent in
> two respects. The first is that I have myself departed from ancient mores
> regarding the minimum age for standing for office (and others have mentioned
> this too). The second is that in this election I have endorsed candidates who
> are engaging (or proposing to engage) in continuatio. I'll respond to those
> points in that order.
>
> What were the ancient rules and customs regarding the minimum age for a
> magistracy? Until 180 B.C. the matter was not regulated by written law.
> Before that date, there was no real idea that a certain number of years was
> required for a person to be qualified for a magistracy; nonetheless, there
> were normal ages for the various offices. These arose from practical
> considerations. No one could run for quaestor without first completing ten
> years' military service. This military service would almost always be begun
> at the age of 21. Therefore no one could, in practice, be quaestor before the
> age of 31.
>
> In 180 the lex Villia seems to have introduced minimum ages for at least some
> magistracies. There is considerable disagreement among modern scholars on the
> precise effect of the lex, but there is some evidence that it did not
> prescribe a minimum age for the quaestura. It was, in any case, unnecessary
> to do so, because the practical requirement of military service meant that
> running for quaestor before 31 was impossible.
>
> This leaves people like me who want to follow the mos majorum with some
> difficulty. Nova Roma has no equivalent to those ten years of military
> service.

ATS: Well, you could join a reenactment legion... ;-)

>There are several options. One is to treat the age of 31 as a
> minimum age, regardless of the fact that the practical reason for it has
> vanished. There is something to be said for this, but in the end I don't
> think it is a very Roman approach. The old Romans did not change ancient
> traditions simply because they were ancient, but equally they did not seek to
> preserve them when they clearly served no useful purpose at all. Another is
> to try to find some equivalent of military service and to say that a person
> should not run for quaestor until he has done whatever that is. I tried this
> for a while, but I was unable to find any satisfactory replacement for that
> military service. It must be something which is actually of some use to the
> republic. Holding minor offices such as rogator, custos, diribitor, editor,
> and so on are possible substitutes, but I think they are not appropriate
> substitutes. These offices are finite, so making their tenure a requirement
> would severely restrict the number of people eligible to run for quaestor,
> whereas there was no limit on the number of people who could do military
> service in the old days. Perhaps there is an alternative I haven't thought
> of. But in the absence of such an alternative, I came to the conclusion that
> the most Roman thing to do is to say simply this: in the old days what one had
> to do in order to run for quaestor was to reach 21 and then serve in the army
> for ten years; here there is no military service, so the remaining
> qualification is to reach 21. It is not, I confess, an entirely satisfactory
> solution, but it is the best I can come up with at the moment.

ATS: There's an outside possibility that the practical reason for
certain other things had vanished as well.

>
> The other point is about continuatio. Strabo has rightly pointed out that, a
> month or two ago, I said that bad magistrates and no continuatio would be
> better than good candidates and continuatio. I still believe that.

ATS: Why would you ever do that? A good magistrate is infinitely
superior to a bad one--one who is just plain no good, or who is lazy, or who
disappears...continuatio or no continuatio. To be sure, it is better
without than with, but given the choice between a good magistrate with
continuatio and a bad one without, I would choose the good one.

>Why,
> then, have I endorsed some candidates who are currently in office and would
> therefore, if elected, be engaged in continuatio? The answer is quite simple.
> Where there was a choice between a continuing candidate and a non-continuing
> candidate, I endorsed the non-continuing candidate. But in some cases there
> was no choice at all. My endorsements were (as you will see if you read them)
> simply statements about whom I intended to vote for. In our manner of voting,
> there is no option to vote for "none of the above". One can always abstain,
> but an abstention is simply a waste of a vote. So I had to vote for somebody.
> In cases where all the candidates were engaged in continuatio, then it was
> simply impossible for me to vote for a candidate who was not engaged in
> continuatio.
>
> There is, I think, one exception to what I said above. In the election for
> consul, there were two non-continuing candidates, L. Arminius and Fl. Vedius.
> I voted for Faustus but not for Vedius. Why not for Vedius? The answer is
> that, although he was not seeking continuatio, he was seeking a very closely
> related phenomenon, iteratio. Continuatio is holding office two years in a
> row. Iteratio is holding the same office twice in a row (without a gap of ten
> years between the two). They are very closely related ideas, both existing
> for the same purpose and sometimes committed simultaneously (when a person
> holds for the same office two years in a row). For some reason many people in
> Nova Roma regard iteratio as worse than continuatio. I can see no logical
> reason for this distinction. They are equally undesirable. So in my mind
> there was only one candidate for consul who was entirely devoid of the shadow
> of electoral irregularity. I could, I suppose, have voted for that one only.
> Perhaps I ought to have done so. But in my judgment it was more Roman to do
> what I did.


> Having answered those two points separately, I'd like to make another response
> which applies to both of them. Both of the things above were, perhaps,
> deviations from the mos majorum. This is arguable, and one must apply one's
> own understanding of Romanitas. If someone were to believe that what I did
> was un-Roman, I would have some sympathy and some understanding for that point
> of view. They're difficult points. But for a person who has held no elected
> office except rogatrix to run for praetrix is of an entirely different order.
> Those of you who have made any study of ancient republican politics must
> surely understand this without needing it to be said. Those of you who have
> not must simply take my word for it. If faced with a person running for
> quaestor under the age of 31 or with a person running for consul the year
> after being praetor (or within ten years of a previous consulate), an ancient
> Roman of republican times would have thought "Hmm, that's a bit irregular, but
> now that I think about it I do remember a time when it happened, and perhaps
> it's not too important". If faced with a person running for praetor without
> having been either quaestor or aedilis or tribunus, that same ancient Roman
> would have thought "By all the gods, I have never heard or dreamed of such a
> thing - it's totally beyond the pale". It is a deviation of an entirely
> different magnitude. This is why I spoke so strongly against it, and continue
> to speak strongly against it.
>
> Moreover, just as it is a far greater deviation from the mos majorum, it is
> also a deviation with far less justification. There were very good reasons
> why such a thing was unheard-of in ancient times, and those reasons still
> apply today. In fact there is even an extra reason which did not exist in
> ancient times: we can see with our own eyes that there is a desperate shortage
> of candidates for quaestor, and we cannot possibly expect people to fill these
> vacancies if we continue to treat that office as totally optional rather than
> the basic minimum qualification for higher office. At the same time there is
> absolutely no reason to tolerate this particular departure from ancient
> tradition. There is no shortage of properly qualified candidates for the
> praetura.

ATS: There *was* such a shortage when I entered the race, and for at
least one very good reason, there should be some competition here even when
there ARE enough candidates.

>There is nothing at all which merits a suspension of this important
> rule.

ATS: Tua sententia.

>
> Some people have said that what is important in a candidate is not whether he
> or she has held this or that office before but what he or she has done over
> all to contribute to Nova Roma. This suggestion is simply misguided. The
> important thing is not merely the technical question of whether a candidate
> has held a certain office before, but the very real question of whether we
> want to go about things in a Roman way or not. A candidate who runs for
> office in defiance of these basic rules shows a disregard for proper Roman
> behaviour which is an extremely undesirable quality in a magistrate and is,
> whether that person is elected or not, harmful to Nova Roma in the long term.
> Someone who genuinely wishes to make a contribution to Nova Roma should
> understand that by observing and serving the mos majorum he or she is making a
> contribution, and by defying the mos majorum he or she is inflicting harm. If
> the project we are engaged in here is the creation and maintenance of a Roman
> republic in the modern world, then the best way to contribute to that project
> is to behave in a Roman way and to encourage others to behave in a Roman way.
> Anyone who behaves in an un-Roman way and claims to be doing so in order to
> make a contribution to Nova Roma is actually cancelling out whatever useful
> contribution he or she is making by the harm inflicted by his or her own
> behaviour and by his or her example to others. A. Tullia has made
> considerable contributions to Nova Roma, and it may well be that, if she were
> praetrix, she would make more contributions. But her candidacy is, itself,
> the very opposite of a contribution, and her election would be even worse. It
> would send the message to every citizen of Nova Roma that behaving in a Roman
> way is not important; and that message is entirely contrary to the whole
> purpose and nature of Nova Roma.

ATS: Some of us don't agree with you here, Corde. Harm may be done if
we elect someone who has vanished, and might do so again; who has run away,
and might do so again; someone who lacks the intellectual and/or character
traits for the position, who is morally corrupt, etc., but not if we
acknowledge that this is New Rome, and things are a bit different here. I
am not deliberately defying the mos except in the same way as C. Livia did,
Pompeia Minucia Strabo did, etc. They were women, and they ran for office;
I'm a woman, and I'm running for office; other women are running for office.
That would have been abhorrent in antiquity, but it isn't here--to most of
us, anyway.

To reiterate, the gender issue is mentioned on my part ONLY in the
context of the fact that ANY female candidate would have been abhorrent in
antiquity, but that is NOT the case here. I'm well aware that my gender is
not the source for uncomplimentary remarks (except, of course, that I am not
the most pulchritudinous member thereof). I'm also no good at gym, can't
really sing, and acknowledge that many people are better mathematicians.

In any election, there will be people who vote for others BECAUSE of
certain reasons, however, just as there are those who will vote against
others for the same reasons. Why would politicians want to balance their
tickets, or get candidates from a dominant ethnic group (as they do here in
the US) if they thought otherwise?

People will vote against me because they think as you do; people will
vote against me because they prefer a different candidate; people will vote
against me because they don't like Latinists, or blondes, or whatever. I
have made a good many contributions to NR, but if others prefer those who
have rested on their laurels and come out of hiding in time for election, so
be it.

>

Vale, et valete.

> Salve, Lentule!
>
>
>
> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> Because of wrong internet connection, I can write only a very short message
> of my endorsments.
>
> FOR CONSUL:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Marcus Moravius Piscinus
>
> FOR PRAETOR:
> Titus Iulius Sabinus
> Aula Tullia Scholastica
>
> ATS: Plurimas gratias! Interrete reficiendum¹st.
>
> FOR AEDILIS CURULIS
> Tita Artoria Marcella
> Quintus Valerius Callidus
>
> FOR OTRER OFFICES:
> Here there is no competion, all candidates have my support!
>
>
> VALETE!
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R
> -------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
> Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---

Salve Galerius Praetor:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo
>
> You gave sufficient caution to those who would venture
> into Martial' s works. If you had posted some of his more
> "interesting" works then some eyebrows might have been
> raised.

Pompeia: Err...., you mean it can be even more *interesting*?
Well, then, I'll thank you for *your* warning to me. Maybe I need to
get a life, but some of the translations I've read already need
Tidybowl, Janitor in a Drum, Javex, Clorox, Generic Sodium
Hypoclorite or some other closely related chemical corrosive
compound.

>
> You safely listed two sites for citizens to visit if they
> wanted to.

I believe my colleague, and most Nova Romans would

> agree that it would take a major event for a Consul to
> be censored on this list.

Pompeia: Ok. If you feel the warning is sufficient, then that's
fine. I just wanted you to know that I'm personally quite fine with
its deletion.

>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Praetor

Vale
Pompeia

>

Salve Aula Tullia,

A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:

>> ATS: Has the praesidium been announced?

Quoting from Consul Modianus' call of the Comitia:

"The presidium (the first tribe to be counted) shall be Tribe XXII: Maecia."

So yes, it was announced, though all tribes vote together. It's just
that the presidium tribe is counted first.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Salve Gnae Corneli

My thanks to you for your endorsement, and I wish you continued
success in provincia Panonnia.

Vale et vade in pace Deorum
M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> Because of wrong internet connection, I can write only a very

short message of my endorsments.

>
> FOR CONSUL:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Marcus Moravius Piscinus
>
> FOR PRAETOR:
> Titus Iulius Sabinus
> Aula Tullia Scholastica
>
> FOR AEDILIS CURULIS
> Tita Artoria Marcella
> Quintus Valerius Callidus
>
> FOR OTRER OFFICES:
> Here there is no competion, all candidates have my support!
>
>
> VALETE!
>
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R
> -------------------------------
> Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
> Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti

da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi

> http://mail.yahoo.it
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

As I was correcting the lesson II homework for my introductory class, I
came upon some gems which are most apropos for this forum, especially now.
Since the homework has been corrected, it won¹t spill the beans to give the
answers:

Immodica ira creat insaniam. (Immoderate/excessive anger creates
insanity).

and

Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare. (What do you think/think about
[this]? We should avoid anger.

Both of these are from Seneca.

Many and various are the useful sayings in the Wheelock text
exercises...

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites,

For Consul I support M. Moravius Piscinus and L. Arminius Faustus. It was not as easy a decision as one might think, but it "is" my decision. Piscinus I know and respect without question. Faustus? What can I say? Energy and creativity!

For Praetor I endorse T. Iulius Sabinus and A. Tullia Scholastica. The former I have worked for and know his capabilities and his inclinations. He will serve Nova Roma well. The latter has my endorsement because I have seen what she is capable of and believe she will make an excellent Praetor.

Optime vale,
Artoria Marcella

Optime vale,
Artoria Marcella






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo, et salvete, omnes!
>
>
>
>
> Salve A. Tullia Scholastica et Salvete Omnes:
>
> You were asking about the Praesidium.
>
> The Praesidium tribe in the current Comitia Populi Tributa elections
> is Tribe XXII, as announced by my colleague G. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
>
> Thanks nonetheless for making sure we have all bases covered.
>
> ATS: Okay, thank you. I have been missing some messages from this board
> and others lately, and wanted to be sure. I did get the one about the
> praerogativa, but not about the praesidium (though often these are on the same
> post...), and know that others are missing. Last year we seem to have had
> some difficulty getting these technical issues taken care of, as you no doubt
> remember all too well.
>
> Valete
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica


>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A. Tullia
> Scholastica" <fororom@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus S.P.D.
>> >
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salvete omnes,
>>> > >
>>> > > Yesterday evening, at 6 pm Central European Time, the Cista opened for
>>> > > voting by the Comitia Populi Tributa and the Centuria Praerogativa of
>>> > > the Comitia Centuriata.
>>> > >
>>> > > This means that every citizen may vote at this time in the Comitia
>>> > > Populi Tributa.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Has the praesidium been announced? I have missed
> several messages
>>> > > lately, and saw that the praerogativa had been announced, but
> didn¹t see one
>>> > > for the praesidium.
>>> > >
>>> > > Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa has been open for several
> days now.
>>> > >
>>> > > In the Comitia Centuriata, only the members of the designated Centuria
>>> > > Praerogativa (Century 13), are eligible to vote. Century 13
> consists of
>>> > > Gn. Cornelius Lentulus, G. Popillius Laenas, Q. Suetonius
> Paulinus, and
>>> > > F. Vedius Germanicus. Those four, and those four only, are
> eligible to
>>> > > vote right now. Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa only will
> continue
>>> > > until 6 pm CET today, at which point the Diribitores will announce the
>>> > > result of voting in the Centuria Praerogativa.
>>> > >
>>> > > Voting by all centuries of the first class (centuries 1 through
> 14) will
>>> > > begin tomorrow, 5 Nov, at 6 pm CET. Voting by all other centuries
> will
>>> > > begin at 6 pm CET on 8 Nov. Please be sure to only vote in the
> Comitia
>>> > > Centuriata at the time that is correct for your century. Votes
> cast at
>>> > > the wrong time will be discarded.
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete,
>>> > >
>>> > > Gn. Equitius Marinus
>>> > > Censor
>>> > >
>> > Vale, et valete,
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia P. Minuciae Ti. Galerio spd;
you two really worry me. Catullus (I'll get to Martial in
the next post) is considered the Greatest Latin Lyric Poet!

If you think Catullus or Martial are not fit reading, I again
wonder about Ti. Galerius's ability to make sensible decisions &
certainly whether one ought to vote for him as Consul, much less
Scholastica as praetrix.

> Here is a poem from http://www.vroma.org/

free site for Teachers! so to spread the word on the great Latin
writers. I'm really ashamed of this discussion.
CARMEN 5 CATULLUS
VIVAMUS mea Lesbia, atque amemus, 1 Let us live, my Lesbia, and
love,
rumoresque senum seueriorum 2 and value at one farthing
omnes unius aestimemus assis! 3 all the talk of crabbed old men.
soles occidere et redire possunt: 4 Suns may set and rise again.
nobis cum semel occidit breuis lux, 5 For us, when the short light
has once set,
nox est perpetua una dormienda. 6 remains to be slept the sleep of
one unbroken night.
da mi basia mille, deinde centum, 7 Give me a thousand kisses, then
a hundred,
dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, 8 Then another thousand,
then a second hundred,
deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum. 9 then yet thousand, then
a hundred.
dein, cum milia multa fecerimus, 10 Then, when we have made up many
thousands,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus, 11 we will confuse our counting,
that we may not know the reckoning,
aut ne quis malus inuidere possit, 12 nor any malicious person
blight them with evil eye,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum. 13 when he knows that our kisses are
so many.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior, lover of Latin poets

> Salve Galerius Praetor:
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> >
> > You gave sufficient caution to those who would venture
> > into Martial' s works. If you had posted some of his more
> > "interesting" works then some eyebrows might have been
> > raised.
>
> Pompeia: Err...., you mean it can be even more *interesting*?
> Well, then, I'll thank you for *your* warning to me. Maybe I need

to

> get a life, but some of the translations I've read already need
> Tidybowl, Janitor in a Drum, Javex, Clorox, Generic Sodium
> Hypoclorite or some other closely related chemical corrosive
> compound.
> >
> > You safely listed two sites for citizens to visit if they
> > wanted to.
>
> I believe my colleague, and most Nova Romans would
> > agree that it would take a major event for a Consul to
> > be censored on this list.
>
>
> Pompeia: Ok. If you feel the warning is sufficient, then that's
> fine. I just wanted you to know that I'm personally quite fine

with

> its deletion.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Praetor
>
> Vale
> Pompeia
>
> >
>

Q. Caecilius Metellus Fl. Germanico et Candidatis Consulatui salutem.

[I thank those consular candidates who have answered this for doing so.
However, I have not yet seen a response from the candidate to whom this
was directed, and accordingly I repost it.]

For you, Candidate, I have a few questions regarding your statement
published Id. Oct. Before you answer, though, I would like you to
disregard every office I currently hold and for which I am a candidate.
I ask these questions specifically and only as a citizen. Also, please
forgive me for taking your text out of order in asking questions about
it. I find it more appropriate to present my questions in this order.

You stated:

> What changes would I make? I would require that our appointed
> spiritual leaders, whether they be pontiffs, augurs, or flamines,
> actually physically perform the rituals they should do.

First, how would you go about making this requirement? In answering
this, I would be particularly interested in the specific processes you
intend to follow, and perhaps some examples of what tools you would use
(i.e., if you intend to pass a lex, then not perhaps a full legal text,
but perhaps some specific concepts).

Second, as a follower to the previous, how would you go about enforcing
(or seeing to the enforcement) of this requirement. Again, as above, I
would appreciate as specific a response to this question as you can
give, without necessarily giving a full lex.

You also stated:

> What would I do to revive the revial? I would DO more. Personally,
> and through every power of my office, to encourage others to DO more
> as well.

In the text of this message, you mentioned that you would perform those
rites which were prescribed by the Collegium Pontificum, as well as
continuing in your own private [and domestic] rites. So in the third
place, I am curious to know what, specifically, "more" means. I would
also be curious to know how you would "through every power of [your]
office ... encourage others to do more". In this latter part, some
examples would be particularly helpful.

Further:

> we have gone on long enough with certain priestly offices being
> occupied by straw men.

This, as I'm sure you know, is something I view not only as absolutely
abominable, but as a situation that needs to be (and I believe can be)
fixed. In the fourth place, I would like to know not only what steps
you would take to eradicate the situation of offices being held by
"straw men", but also what you would do, if anything, to prevent this
from being the situation in the future. Again, examples would be helpful.

Lastly, regarding an initial piaculum:

> Again, such would be taken under the direction of, and with the
> advice of, the Collegium Pontificum.

Exactly what do you mean by "under the direction of... the Collegium
Pontificum", and how by what mechanisms do you intend to obtain the
advice thereof?

As I am certain, Flavi Germanice, your answers will be quite thorough,
detailed, and fully conceived, I thank you in advance for responding,
and I also thank you for your willingness to serve our Republic yet again.

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
and now I return to the great epigrammist Martial. No, he
is not an equivalent to Eminem, he is a great Latin author, studied
and admired by all Classists. And here are a few epigrams which you
are able to read and to hear in the restored Latin thanks to the
Society for the Oral Reading of Greek & Latin Literature.

Martial, Epigrams
read in the restored pronunciation of classical Latin
by Wakefield Foster, University of Missouri.
(Text followed by translation)

Martial, Epigrams
read in the restored pronunciation of classical Latin
by Wakefield Foster, University of Missouri.
(Text followed by translation)Listen to the recording: Epigram V.41
(Real Player required)
http://www.rhapsodes.fll.ut.edu/martial.htm

I.96
si non molestum est teque non piget, scazon,
nostro rogamus pauca uerba Materno
dicas in aurem sic ut audiat solus.
amator ille tristium lacernarum
et baeticatus atque leucophaeatus,
qui coccinatos non putat uiros esse
amethystinasque mulierum uocat uestes,
natiua laudet, habeat et licet semper
fuscos colores, galbinos habet mores.
rogabit unde suspicer uirum mollem.
una lauamur: aspicit nihil sursum,
sed spectat oculis deuorantibus draucos
nec otiosis mentulas uidet labris.
quaeris quis hic sit? excidit mihi nomen.


If it's not inconvenient and you don't mind, scazon, I ask you to
say a few words to my friend Maternus, in his ear so that only he
can hear. That lover of gloomy cloaks, dressed in Baetican and ashen-
coloured wools, who thinks that men who dress in scarlet are no men,
and calls amethyst-coloured clothes women's clothes, though he
praises natural colours and always praises dull colours, has morals
that are greeny-yellow. He will ask why I suspect the man of being
effeminate. We bathe together: he looks at nothing up above, but
with devouring eyes he watches the muscle-men and looks at their
pricks with his lips not at rest. Are you asking who he is? The name
has escaped me.

the above English translation is from the Martialis Blog & belongs
to the copyright holder.
This is great Latin Literature; if you cannot
deal with Latin mores, go join the Victorian Society. We all should
read it & appreciate its wit & greatness.
bene valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


Listen to the recording: Epigram I.96 (Real Player required)



Listen to the recording: Epigram V.41 (Real Player required


Listen to the recording: Epigram I.96 (Real Player required)



Listen to the recording: Epigram V.41 (Real Player required

>
> ---
>
> Salve Galerius Praetor:
>
> In Nova-Roma@


> >
> > Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> >
> > You gave sufficient caution to those who would venture
> > into Martial' s works. If you had posted some of his more
> > "interesting" works then some eyebrows might have been
> > raised.
>
> Pompeia: Err...., you mean it can be even more *interesting*?
> Well, then, I'll thank you for *your* warning to me. Maybe I need

to

> get a life, but some of the translations I've read already need
> Tidybowl, Janitor in a Drum, Javex, Clorox, Generic Sodium
> Hypoclorite or some other closely related chemical corrosive
> compound.
> >
> > You safely listed two sites for citizens to visit if they
> > wanted to.
>
> I believe my colleague, and most Nova Romans would
> > agree that it would take a major event for a Consul to
> > be censored on this list.
>
>
> Pompeia: Ok. If you feel the warning is sufficient, then that's
> fine. I just wanted you to know that I'm personally quite fine

with

> its deletion.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Praetor
>
> Vale
> Pompeia
>
> >
>

Salve M. Hortensia Maior

What in the heck are you talking about. The Consul suggested
that we could remove a post or two of hers if we felt the need,

I did not see the need. ( sound like a sensible decision to me)

I said some of Martial 's work was "interesting" is it not?

If one finds a written work "interesting" it means
they have read some or all of it.

I do not recall if you were a subscriber to the Eagle when
I was Curator Differum ( editor ) but poems from both
Catullus and Martial could be found between its pages.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
The Sensible Choice for Consul

----- Original Message -----
From: Maior<mailto:rory12001@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 11:58 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Epigrams of Martial...to the Praetores


M. Hortensia P. Minuciae Ti. Galerio spd;
you two really worry me. Catullus (I'll get to Martial in
the next post) is considered the Greatest Latin Lyric Poet!

If you think Catullus or Martial are not fit reading, I again
wonder about Ti. Galerius's ability to make sensible decisions &
certainly whether one ought to vote for him as Consul, much less
Scholastica as praetrix.
> Here is a poem from http://www.vroma.org/<http://www.vroma.org/>
free site for Teachers! so to spread the word on the great Latin
writers. I'm really ashamed of this discussion.
CARMEN 5 CATULLUS
VIVAMUS mea Lesbia, atque amemus, 1 Let us live, my Lesbia, and
love,
rumoresque senum seueriorum 2 and value at one farthing
omnes unius aestimemus assis! 3 all the talk of crabbed old men.
soles occidere et redire possunt: 4 Suns may set and rise again.
nobis cum semel occidit breuis lux, 5 For us, when the short light
has once set,
nox est perpetua una dormienda. 6 remains to be slept the sleep of
one unbroken night.
da mi basia mille, deinde centum, 7 Give me a thousand kisses, then
a hundred,
dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, 8 Then another thousand,
then a second hundred,
deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum. 9 then yet thousand, then
a hundred.
dein, cum milia multa fecerimus, 10 Then, when we have made up many
thousands,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus, 11 we will confuse our counting,
that we may not know the reckoning,
aut ne quis malus inuidere possit, 12 nor any malicious person
blight them with evil eye,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum. 13 when he knows that our kisses are
so many.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior, lover of Latin poets

> Salve Galerius Praetor:
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> >
> > You gave sufficient caution to those who would venture
> > into Martial' s works. If you had posted some of his more
> > "interesting" works then some eyebrows might have been
> > raised.
>
> Pompeia: Err...., you mean it can be even more *interesting*?
> Well, then, I'll thank you for *your* warning to me. Maybe I need
to
> get a life, but some of the translations I've read already need
> Tidybowl, Janitor in a Drum, Javex, Clorox, Generic Sodium
> Hypoclorite or some other closely related chemical corrosive
> compound.
> >
> > You safely listed two sites for citizens to visit if they
> > wanted to.
>
> I believe my colleague, and most Nova Romans would
> > agree that it would take a major event for a Consul to
> > be censored on this list.
>
>
> Pompeia: Ok. If you feel the warning is sufficient, then that's
> fine. I just wanted you to know that I'm personally quite fine
with
> its deletion.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Praetor
>
> Vale
> Pompeia
>
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem.

There has been a lot said about A. Tullia and her decision to seek a
curule office with imperium recently. There are a lot of factors at
play here, and I don't even pretend to be aware of them all, but I
would like to take a moment to comment on those of which I am aware.

I'll begin with the argument that deals with properly climbing the
cursus. Of the various issues surrounding what has been said so far,
I think this has the most attached to it. In the first place is the
very obvious point that she has not held what may be considered a
magistracy proper. There are literally billions of reasons why this
may be the case; I won't presume to know any of them. But this is a
point for which some seem to want to fault her, and I indeed would be
one such. But that can not go without the recognition of how skilled
one is for office. It also can not go without the recognition of the
fact that we have in our own laws made it clear that one need not hold
such offices before seeking this one. And this is where we should
perhaps stop talking, and begin thinking. So let us ponder as much.

The argument has been made that she should follow the ancient cursus.
I don't disagree with that argument, but let us not forget what is in
our laws, and what was in the laws of our ancestors. I am no scholar
of the field, but a student. It would seem strange to me, though,
that the laws of our ancestors would not have been a guiding principle
on how and when to seek what offices. Had such laws not been in
place, we could perhaps have seen C. Caesar hold the consulship
earlier than he had; we could very well have seen M. Cicero never hold
the quaestorship. So before we can comment on failing to follow the
cursus properly, let us not forget what our own laws say. This is one
area in which I would argue that if we demand change, then we *must*
change our laws.

Some have also brought to light the fact that my dear friend Aulus
Cordus has endorsed me, but has spoken so adamantly against
Scholastica. I make it no hidden fact that I'm not yet put thirty
years behind me; I'm only gotten twenty. (That's right folks, I don't
drink.) So if I am elected to the quaestorship, I will indeed be in
violation of the cursus honorum. However, our laws allow me to do so
with the permission of both censors and the Senate, and I have
obtained as much. Again, I point out the fact that, if an argument is
to be made, we must begin with changing our laws.

The argument of Scholastica and properly following the cursus is a
moot one, in my opinion. Our laws permit her to do so, and so she
shall do so if she pleases. If you choose not to vote in her favor
for whatever reason, such is your choice. But an argument that she is
in violation of ancient custom (which, it bears saying, is not an
invalid argument) need begin with, or at least be immediately followed
by, the fact that our laws permit such.

There was another argument on the temperament of this individual. I
admit that my experience with Scholastica is limited. However, one
need only review the archives to find that my temperament is not the
kindest in these parts, and a simple inquiry with my mother can reveal
just how difficult my temperament can be (though, there's a long
history of things involved there). Yet I still am able to stand for
the Quaestorship, without argument (to date), and it's no unknown fact
that I intend to take up an aedileship, tribunate, praetorship, and
consulship should the People allow me. We have as a consular
candidate one who has stated that his temper is not among the best as
well. Before anyone goes further with the argument that one's temper
is a disqualification for office, one needs to consider how much that
bears on an individual's ability to execute the duties of a given
office well. In this case, I find that it is not the most necessary
thing. What is necessary, you ask? An ability to review things
objectively and to handle them responsibly. Consider that, if you
would be so kind.

Quirites, it boils down to this: if we are to hold in contempt
individuals violating the mos of our ancestors, then we need hold
equally in contempt the fact that our laws do so as well. We can only
honestly hold one in contempt when we have ensured that our laws and
our established customs give basis to that. At the moment, that is
currently not the case.

But at any rate, it has recently become the Nones. I had earlier
asked that we take a day of thanksgiving today to consider what we
have, and to be thankful for as much. Rather than arguing any more, I
would like that we all take a day to be thankful for each other's
presence, which only serves to help us grow as individuals. And so if
you will excuse me, I need to prepare some things for my father's grave.

> A. Tullia Scholastica Consuli Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> ---Salvete Honoured Praetors:
>
> If you wish to delete this and the last post of mine from the
> archives, you will receive no argument from me.
>
> But I hold no fault against A. Tullia Scholastica, or anyone else
> who might think this material is not acceptable for publication or
> public broadcast...atleast from an NR perspective, with respect to
> those who feel differently.
>
> ATS: Indeed, parts of Martial are, as you noted in another post, require
> something like clorox for sanitation purposes, and I would deem them
> unsuitable for this list, or for the podcast, or for anything of the sort,
> particularly when sprung on unsuspecting readers or listeners. Some other
> portions of his work are perfectly fine, merely very sarcastic, insulting
> someone for having false teeth or for being a poor writer, etc. In fact, some
> of these are in my Wheelock text, and I have seen them and others in other
> introductory texts...college introductory texts, that is, which is what
> Wheelock is. High school texts are unlikely to touch even the tame parts with
> a ten-foot pole due to the difficulty of the vocabulary and writing style.
>
> I¹m afraid that Hortensia doesn¹t always see the fine distinctions: if I
> say that PART of Martial is unsuitable for the podcast, she seems to think
> that I said that ALL of Martial is unsuitable for it, which isn¹t true. If we
> put that sort of hot material on the podcast, we would have to mark it as
> adult-only, as if it were pornography. I don¹t consider that a good way to
> enhance our reputation.
>
> In addition, this is something of a straw man; the probability that either
> Catullus or Martial is going to post to the ML seems rather slim at best (let
> me know if this happens; I would like to see the moderation notice), and it is
> also unlikely that any moderated member would. I would hope that any
> unmoderated member would have the good sense NOT to post such material; it
> violates the Yahoo guidelines, and is profoundly offensive to a good many
> people. The idea in life is to avoid offending others whenever possible, not,
> as some here seem to think, that posting such material in order to offend
> others, and drive them away, is a fine thing to do. Now, a lot of adolescents
> think along these lines, but I would hope that adults do not.
>
>
> I certainly would hope that citizens
> will not judge her qualifications as Praetrix over expressing a
> dull opinion on the 'PG rating' of this material.
>
> ATS: I¹m not sure about what you mean by a dull opinion, but I can tell
> you that what was sprung on us as exam questions a couple of years ago was NOT
> PG, it was XXXXX, and if anything like that were on the podcast, we would have
> the cops on us for promoting pederasty. One must not let one¹s belief in
> ³freedom of speech² blind one to the implications of letting such material
> fall into the hands of minors, or of characterizing NR as a smut merchant. In
> reality, there is a difference between liberty and license, one often ignored,
> but one which should be maintained: liberty is one thing, and license
> another. Liberty is good, but license isn¹t. One must know where to draw the
> line.
>
> Those who like to discuss that sort of thing know where to find
> like-minded souls in NR, so don¹t wail that anyone¹s Œfreedom of speech¹ is
> being violated; head for the alley, and you can read all of that you want.
> It¹s not suitable for a list on which there are minors, or for the podcast.
> We have citizenship applications for kids as young as 12...does anyone see Mr.
> Sheriff coming if we post that sort of thing? I do...and would prefer that he
> find nothing here which would cause him to censure us.
>
>
>
>
>
> It is up to you.
>
> Valete
> Pompeia
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Pompeia
> Minucia Strabo
> <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete Omnes:
>> >
>> > Given the discussion on whether Martial's works in particular
> are somewhat off-colour, I decided to do a little surfing to see for
> myself. I remember reading some old English translations of Martial
> and I found them to be a bit suggestive, and such that he might be
> writing stuff to "get people going", but admittedly its been a few
> years and I wanted to read more on the matter from others.
>> >
>> > I really don't think that to suggest he is being obcene or in
> some spots out and out vulgar is too far off the money....He might
> have been an "Eminem" of the Principate maybe (funny, Eminem's real
> name is 'Marshall') But this is my personal opinion.
>> >
>> > Here are a couple of links which combined discuss translations
> of his stuff and opinions, plus give a basic bio.
>> >
>> > You can make the decision, but I warn you...if you are easily
> offended you might not wish to look at the second link in
> particular ....its a blog.
>
> ATS: I didn¹t look at either; I know enough already. Many translations
> might not be accurate, in part to spare the reader, in part because
> translating poetry is difficult, and in part because Martial¹s style is
> closely interlocked, with a sting at the end; this cannot be reproduced in
> another language, especially not in one which lacks the heavily-inflected
> grammar of Latin which allows that sort of thing.
>
> I would, however, have recommended against posting these links here; we do
> have minors on this list, as well as on most of our open lists, and they don¹t
> need to be encouraged to read anything requiring gallons of red Lysol to
> sanitize it.
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>
>> > Valete
>> > Pompeia
>> >

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus Flamen Cerialis S.P.D.

During some research into festivals and holidays of the Roman Year, I noted
in H.H. Scullard's book, Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman Republic, that
December 10
was listed as "Tribuni plebis magistratum ineunt" and that:

"This, and not the first day of the year, was the date for tribunes to
assume the office to which they had been elected earlier."

I found this curious and did further reading in Scullard that indicated that
on the Kalends of January (by 153 BCE), the Consuls were installed in
office, observed the auspices, and proceeded to receive the official visits of
friends, clients, and Senators at their home. Later they would process to the
Capitoline Hill to receive public acclaim and sacrifice. Thereafter the senior
consul summoned a meeting of the Senate to lay our religious and secular
matters including the date of the feriae Latinae & the distribution of the
provinces. This ended the first day of the year.

This led me to delve into some ancient sources such as Polybius and Livy in
which a tribune could prevent a consul from convoking the Senate; interceed
against the official functions of the censors; and place a veto upon an
ordinance of the Senate. According to Appian, the tribunes could compel the Senate
to meet in session or order a review of any prior item under a fresh
discussion. They could even make proposals in opposition to a consul; a right not
enjoyed by any other magistrate.

Based on this information, I hypothesize that the reason for the
installation of the Tribunes before that of the Consul or any other magistrate at the
beginning of the New Year was to insure that there was no hanky-panky or
shenanigans on the part of the new Consuls or Senate during the first meeting of
the year.

I believe that the December installation of the Tribunes has merit and would
recommend that those who will become Consuls and Tribunes in the New Year
consider formulating a concise & brief lex that would bring Nova Roma into
closer historical alignment with those ancient and honorable practices.

Valete.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, Censor Marine, et salvete quirites bonae voluntatis!
>
>
> Salve Aula Tullia,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:
>
>>> >> ATS: Has the praesidium been announced?
>
> Quoting from Consul Modianus' call of the Comitia:
>
> "The presidium (the first tribe to be counted) shall be Tribe XXII: Maecia."
>
> So yes, it was announced, though all tribes vote together. It's just
> that the presidium tribe is counted first.
>
> ATS: Thanks. As I mentioned in an earlier post, some of the messages
> from this list are missing; I¹ve found moderation notices from Latinitas in my
> ISP¹s new spam dump, but others (including the monthly Musarum collegia
> memberships) simply never arrived. I know that at least one from you is
> missing...
>
> I like to see our elections conducted in the proper fashion; it¹s very
> educational for the new citizens and the peregrini in particular to see how an
> ancient Roman-style election was conducted...the difference being that we
> don¹t send everyone else home after the praerogativa or the first or second
> class centuries vote, even if there are enough votes to elect the magistrates
> (and, of course, we don¹t separate the second-class centuries from those below
> them).
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M.Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
and that is the sad point that Scholastica sees this as
pornography. I think a discussion of Catullus and Martial on the ML
would only enhance Nova Roma.
It's not a straw man. If it's 'deeply offensive' to others as I
said, let them join the Victorian Society. And it did come up at the
podcast & then & there I vowed to record Martial and post his work
on the ML.
This is a very serious topic, Scholastica, and as a Latin
and Greek scholar, that you can say such things about the greatest
Roman writers is just astounding. And frankly is why you aren't
ready to be praetrix.
bene vale
M. Hortensia Maior

TULLIA SCHOLASTICA: I¹m afraid that Hortensia doesn¹t always see
the fine distinctions: if I

> > say that PART of Martial is unsuitable for the podcast, she

seems to think

> > that I said that ALL of Martial is unsuitable for it, which

isn¹t true. If we

> > put that sort of hot material on the podcast, we would have to

mark it as

> > adult-only, as if it were pornography. I don¹t consider that a

good way to

> > enhance our reputation.
> >
> > I would hope that any
> > unmoderated member would have the good sense NOT to post such

material; it

> > violates the Yahoo guidelines, and is profoundly offensive to a

good many

> > people. The idea in life is to avoid offending others whenever

possible, not,

> > as some here seem to think, that posting such material in order

to offend

> > others, and drive them away, is a fine thing to do. Now, a lot

of adolescents

> > think along these lines, but I would hope that adults do not.
> >
> >
> > I certainly would hope that citizens
> > will not judge her qualifications as Praetrix over expressing a
> > dull opinion on the 'PG rating' of this material.
> >
> > ATS: I¹m not sure about what you mean by a dull opinion,

but I can tell

> > you that what was sprung on us as exam questions a couple of

years ago was NOT

> > PG, it was XXXXX, and if anything like that were on the podcast,

we would have

> > the cops on us for promoting pederasty. One must not let one¹s

belief in

> > ³freedom of speech² blind one to the implications of letting

such material

> > fall into the hands of minors, or of characterizing NR as a smut

merchant. In

> > reality, there is a difference between liberty and license, one

often ignored,

> > but one which should be maintained: liberty is one thing, and

license

> > another. Liberty is good, but license isn¹t. One must know

where to draw the

> > line.
> >
> > Those who like to discuss that sort of thing know where to

find

> > like-minded souls in NR, so don¹t wail that anyone¹s Œfreedom of

speech¹ is

> > being violated; head for the alley, and you can read all of that

you want.

> > It¹s not suitable for a list on which there are minors, or for

the podcast.

> > We have citizenship applications for kids as young as 12...does

anyone see Mr.

> > Sheriff coming if we post that sort of thing? I do...and would

prefer that he

> > find nothing here which would cause him to censure us.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is up to you.
> >
> > Valete
> > Pompeia
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%

40yahoogroups.com> , Pompeia

> > Minucia Strabo
> > <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salvete Omnes:
> >> >
> >> > Given the discussion on whether Martial's works in

particular

> > are somewhat off-colour, I decided to do a little surfing to see

for

> > myself. I remember reading some old English translations of

Martial

> > and I found them to be a bit suggestive, and such that he might

be

> > writing stuff to "get people going", but admittedly its been a

few

> > years and I wanted to read more on the matter from others.
> >> >
> >> > I really don't think that to suggest he is being obcene or

in

> > some spots out and out vulgar is too far off the money....He

might

> > have been an "Eminem" of the Principate maybe (funny, Eminem's

real

> > name is 'Marshall') But this is my personal opinion.
> >> >
> >> > Here are a couple of links which combined discuss

translations

> > of his stuff and opinions, plus give a basic bio.
> >> >
> >> > You can make the decision, but I warn you...if you are

easily

> > offended you might not wish to look at the second link in
> > particular ....its a blog.
> >
> > ATS: I didn¹t look at either; I know enough already. Many

translations

> > might not be accurate, in part to spare the reader, in part

because

> > translating poetry is difficult, and in part because Martial¹s

style is

> > closely interlocked, with a sting at the end; this cannot be

reproduced in

> > another language, especially not in one which lacks the heavily-

inflected

> > grammar of Latin which allows that sort of thing.
> >
> > I would, however, have recommended against posting these

links here; we do

> > have minors on this list, as well as on most of our open lists,

and they don¹t

> > need to be encouraged to read anything requiring gallons of red

Lysol to

> > sanitize it.
> >> >
> >> > <snip>
> >> >
> >
> >> > Valete
> >> > Pompeia
> >> >
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

There is no question that Catullus' work is racy by modern standards but his
work was appreciated during his lifetime and afterwards. It was written by
a man of earthy desires and wit, to be read and appreciated by other men, but
so was the majority of the classical writers. I do not believe that an
appreciation of Martial or Catullus is in any way an indication of someone's
ability to hold a magistracy in Nova Roma. On such a basis, a person could be
condemned for appreciating the works of that narrow minded bigot Cato or that
vain wind bag Cicero. Personally, I have always gotten a bit of enjoyment out
of that old gossip Procopius (yes, I know he was Byzantine Hellene),
humorous old Plautus, and, in the present discussion, Catullus. I rather enjoyed
the way that Steven Saylor fleshed out Catullus in one of the novels about
Gordianus the Finder.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>

>
> Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare. (What do you think/think about
> [this]? We should avoid anger.
>
> Both of these are from Seneca.
>

Agricola Scholasticae sal

For "Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare." could we also have "What are
you thinking? We should AVOID danger."?

If I recall correctly, Latin does not have the "present simple" versus
"present progressive" distinction that English does. Is that correct,
or is it just an artifact of age in my addled brain?

ago tibi gratias

optime vale!

oops

I wrote

>
> For "Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare." could we also have "What are
> you thinking? We should AVOID danger."?
>

meaning of course "What are you thinking? We should AVOID anger."

Maybe my personality shows, to observe danger more than anger?

Salve omnes,

This post is regarding a previous post entitled-"Questions about the
Sacra and Cultus Publicus." As it is stated that a Consul should not
have direct control over the Religio, as it is the sole responsibilty
of the Collegio Pontificum, it is within his/her right to state
his/her opinion about religious matters. While it is impossible to
ensure that each religious figure whether it be augurs, pontiffs, or
flamines are performing their religious duties in both private and
public cultus; the suggestion that a lex should be passed is both
reasonable and well founded to ensure that religious figures are
performing their duties. Citizens who apply for religious positions
should be fulfilling their responsibilities as religious leaders of
Nova Roma.

Reasons for us stating so are as follows- The religious section
within the Nova Roma page is baron, save for basic information on
household worship. Several links on the religious page are dead links
therefor are unable to be researched and it seems apparent that it is
not being maintained. It is understood that we as citizens should be
doing our own research, but all the same our religious leaders are
there to guide us in the complex religion that is the Religio Romana.
Therefore certain precautions should be taken to ensure that relgious
leaders are contributing in helping our citizens to progress in their
faith. We believe certain actions should be taken so that if
religious leaders are not performing their duties, their titles as
religious leaders should be revoked and a lex passed enforcing their
observance of their religious duties.

Vale,
L. Julius Regulus and Ti. Julius Gracchus

Salve Priscus,

This series was recently in BBC. It is certainly worth the watch!

>> There will be a three part series on Rome on the Discovery Channel
>> tomorrow night starting at 7pm CT. The series is called "The
> Battle
>> for Rome". Part 1 is called "Tiberius" and is about Tiberius
>> Sempronius Gracchus. Part 2 is "Caesar" and is about Julius
> Caesar.
>> Part 3 is "Nero". I'm going to Tivo it.
>>
>> Vale,
>> Quintus Servilius Priscus

>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Agricolae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
>> > S.P.D.
>> >
>
>> >
>> > Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare. (What do you think/think about
>> > [this]? We should avoid anger.
>> >
>> > Both of these are from Seneca.
>> >
>
> Agricola Scholasticae sal
>
> For "Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare." could we also have "What are
> you thinking? We should AVOID danger."?
>
> If I recall correctly, Latin does not have the "present simple" versus
> "present progressive" distinction that English does. Is that correct,
> or is it just an artifact of age in my addled brain?
>
> ATS: No, your brain isn¹t addled at all. Latin doesn¹t distinguish
> progressive, emphatic, or simple forms in any tense...it just adds to the fun
> of translation. However, the English which translates debeo in this sense is
> defective (must, ought to, should), that is, some translation possibilities
> are missing some of their parts, so things get even more complicated here.
> Must and ought don¹t seem to possess these forms, so we can¹t use them.
> Cogitare, however, may be translated by a number of different English verbs,
> but this was only lesson 2 for the students, who had had the present tense of
> the first two conjugations in lesson 1, along with the present infinitive and
> the present imperative, and the first declension in lesson 2. Cogitare tends
> to mean ponder, consider, rather than simply think, but any of these would do,
> so Œwhat are you thinking about?¹would also work. Equally possible as a
> translation is What do you think? My classroom policy is to accept anything
> legitimate so long as it makes sense in the context; finer points arrive later
> in the course of things.
>
> ago tibi gratias
>
> Et tibi....thank you so much for discussing something other than Latin
> 699, obscenity in Roman literature...or the failings of a certain candidate
> for the praetura...
>
> optime vale!
>
> Et tibi!
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve iterum, Agricola, et salvete omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
> oops
>
> I wrote
>
>> >
>> > For "Quid cogitas? Debemus iram vitare." could we also have "What are
>> > you thinking? We should AVOID danger."?
>> >
>
> meaning of course "What are you thinking? We should AVOID anger."
>
> Maybe my personality shows, to observe danger more than anger?
>
> ATS: I saw that...but we are here in a very perilous place, NR at
> election time, where no macro pol would dare tread. Maybe you have a calm
> temperament...unlike some around here.
>
> If it were danger in the sentence above, it would be ÂŒQuid cogitas?
> Periculum vitare debemus.¹
>
> Around here, however, ira, anger, is the thing to avoid.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> M.Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> and that is the sad point that Scholastica sees this as
> pornography. I think a discussion of Catullus and Martial on the ML
> would only enhance Nova Roma.
>
> ATS: It would enhance the possibility that we would violate the
> moderation edictum, the Yahoo guidelines, and any semblance of good sense, as
> amply demonstrated by the Martial piece you posted. You should be moderated
> for that since you lack the common sense to know what is appropriate in what
> venue. That sort of thing is fine for the BA; it is NOT fine for a list of
> 1200 people among whom there are minors...and that is precisely why YOU
> should never even contemplate the praetura.
>
>
> It's not a straw man. If it's 'deeply offensive' to others as I
> said, let them join the Victorian Society. And it did come up at the
> podcast & then & there I vowed to record Martial and post his work
> on the ML.
>
> ATS: As I said, the consequence of that would have been to be forced to
> label the podcast as pornography. ³Welcome to NR, your pagan porn site!² Is
> THAT what you want?
>
> You are not here to tell people whether or not they find something
> offensive. That is a private decision. Would you, a vegetarian, care to be
> told that your sensibilities about meat are off base, and you should change
> them because others don¹t share them? Suppose we discussed the joys of black
> Angus versus some other type of beef, and Œrecommended¹ that you sample each
> type...forcibly...
>
> This is a very serious topic,
>
> ATS: Yes, it is.
>
>
> Scholastica, and as a Latin
> and Greek scholar, that you can say such things about the greatest
> Roman writers is just astounding.
>
> ATS: You are viewing matters through your own emotional reactions, and
> your inability to see the consequences of such actions. Read what you like in
> private, or on the BA, but minors should not be exposed to this. Decent
> women don¹t care for the more graphic parts of it, but because YOU think
> everyone should be bathed in porn, you want to endanger us. Normal people can
> live quite well without that, and enjoy adult pastimes, shall we say, but you
> want to inflict graphic sexual material on everyone, minors included, without
> even considering the consequences.
>
> Greatness depends on more than one element; among the Greeks at least,
> moral goodness had to be present. Much of Catullus is fine with me,
> including the one you posted, though it is not really appropriate for the
> adolescent set.
>
>
> And frankly is why you aren't
> ready to be praetrix.
>
> ATS: More like why you will never be ready to be praetrix: you lack the
> discernment necessary for the post. My view is closer to that of most who
> have held the post, including our consul, who characterized the worst of
> Martial as needing clorox for sanitation purposes.
>
>
> bene vale
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
>
> TULLIA SCHOLASTICA: I¹m afraid that Hortensia doesn¹t always see
> the fine distinctions: if I
>>> > > say that PART of Martial is unsuitable for the podcast, she
> seems to think
>>> > > that I said that ALL of Martial is unsuitable for it, which
> isn¹t true. If we
>>> > > put that sort of hot material on the podcast, we would have to
> mark it as
>>> > > adult-only, as if it were pornography. I don¹t consider that a
> good way to
>>> > > enhance our reputation.
>>> > >
>>> > > I would hope that any
>>> > > unmoderated member would have the good sense NOT to post such
> material; it
>>> > > violates the Yahoo guidelines, and is profoundly offensive to a
> good many
>>> > > people. The idea in life is to avoid offending others whenever
> possible, not,
>>> > > as some here seem to think, that posting such material in order
> to offend
>>> > > others, and drive them away, is a fine thing to do. Now, a lot
> of adolescents
>>> > > think along these lines, but I would hope that adults do not.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I certainly would hope that citizens
>>> > > will not judge her qualifications as Praetrix over expressing a
>>> > > dull opinion on the 'PG rating' of this material.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: I¹m not sure about what you mean by a dull opinion,
> but I can tell
>>> > > you that what was sprung on us as exam questions a couple of
> years ago was NOT
>>> > > PG, it was XXXXX, and if anything like that were on the podcast,
> we would have
>>> > > the cops on us for promoting pederasty. One must not let one¹s
> belief in
>>> > > ³freedom of speech² blind one to the implications of letting
> such material
>>> > > fall into the hands of minors, or of characterizing NR as a smut
> merchant. In
>>> > > reality, there is a difference between liberty and license, one
> often ignored,
>>> > > but one which should be maintained: liberty is one thing, and
> license
>>> > > another. Liberty is good, but license isn¹t. One must know
> where to draw the
>>> > > line.
>>> > >
>>> > > Those who like to discuss that sort of thing know where to
> find
>>> > > like-minded souls in NR, so don¹t wail that anyone¹s Œfreedom of
> speech¹ is
>>> > > being violated; head for the alley, and you can read all of that
> you want.
>>> > > It¹s not suitable for a list on which there are minors, or for
> the podcast.
>>> > > We have citizenship applications for kids as young as 12...does
> anyone see Mr.
>>> > > Sheriff coming if we post that sort of thing? I do...and would
> prefer that he
>>> > > find nothing here which would cause him to censure us.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > It is up to you.
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete
>>> > > Pompeia
>>> > >
>>> > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%
> 40yahoogroups.com> , Pompeia
>>> > > Minucia Strabo
>>> > > <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salvete Omnes:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Given the discussion on whether Martial's works in
> particular
>>> > > are somewhat off-colour, I decided to do a little surfing to see
> for
>>> > > myself. I remember reading some old English translations of
> Martial
>>> > > and I found them to be a bit suggestive, and such that he might
> be
>>> > > writing stuff to "get people going", but admittedly its been a
> few
>>> > > years and I wanted to read more on the matter from others.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I really don't think that to suggest he is being obcene or
> in
>>> > > some spots out and out vulgar is too far off the money....He
> might
>>> > > have been an "Eminem" of the Principate maybe (funny, Eminem's
> real
>>> > > name is 'Marshall') But this is my personal opinion.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Here are a couple of links which combined discuss
> translations
>>> > > of his stuff and opinions, plus give a basic bio.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > You can make the decision, but I warn you...if you are
> easily
>>> > > offended you might not wish to look at the second link in
>>> > > particular ....its a blog.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: I didn¹t look at either; I know enough already. Many
> translations
>>> > > might not be accurate, in part to spare the reader, in part
> because
>>> > > translating poetry is difficult, and in part because Martial¹s
> style is
>>> > > closely interlocked, with a sting at the end; this cannot be
> reproduced in
>>> > > another language, especially not in one which lacks the heavily-
> inflected
>>> > > grammar of Latin which allows that sort of thing.
>>> > >
>>> > > I would, however, have recommended against posting these
> links here; we do
>>> > > have minors on this list, as well as on most of our open lists,
> and they don¹t
>>> > > need to be encouraged to read anything requiring gallons of red
> Lysol to
>>> > > sanitize it.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > <snip>
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>>>> > >> > Valete
>>>>> > >> > Pompeia
>>>>> > >> >
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete,
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 11/4/06, Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@...> wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I would like to thank all those who have endorsed my candidacy for
> Consul. Old friends, new friends, and people I do not even know have
> done so. I thank you all for the faith you have placed in me. I only
> hope I am given the opportunity to do you proud and serve our faith
> Republic once more as Consul.

I've been a member of Nova Roma since 2002. I'm not in the habit of giving
endorsements I reckon everyone can make up their own mind. But I have to say
how honoured I feel that Flavius Vedius Germanicus is once more standing for
Consul. I honestly believe that no one could serve us better than him. I
hope others can see that too.

I was delighted to see him endorse A. Tullia Scholastica as I too feel she
has done so much for Nova Roma and we would indeed be well served to see her
as Praetor

Flavia Lucilla Merula

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica Flavio Vedio Germanico quiritibus bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

This message was among those which did not arrive in my mail box, but
someone kindly called my attention to it, so I forwarded it from the web
site.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@...>
wrote:

Salvete,

I would like to thank all those who have endorsed my candidacy for
Consul. Old friends, new friends, and people I do not even know have
done so. I thank you all for the faith you have placed in me. I only
hope I am given the opportunity to do you proud and serve our faith
Republic once more as Consul.

I have, myself, only a single endorsement to make, and I apologize in
advance if the person receiving it might better have wished that I, whom
so many have villified over the past few weeks, had witheld it. But I
feel it is better to be truthful and open. In truth, I daresay her
modesty would be more in play for such a desire than any base political
calculation.

A. Tullia Scholastica is one of the best Cives we are blessed by the
Gods to be able to count among our ranks. I had the honor of meeting her
at Roman Days a few years ago, and she impressed me as being soft-spoken
yet impressive and full of knowledge and wisdom when she did speak. She
is unassuming, and yet so obviously possesses a love of our Republic and
Roma Antiqua itself that shines forth like a beacon. She is hard
working, and freely shares her vast knowledge of Latin and other things
Roman at the merest suggestion of a question. She will make an
outstanding Praetor, and Nova Roma would be well-served to see her in
office. She is among the best of us.

ATS: Thank you very much for this glowing endorsement from such an
unexpected quarter! You and I have had our share of being vilified of late.

I am honored by your endorsement more than I can say. As you note, I am
quiet and modest (and in more than one sense of the latter), and am almost
embarrassed by the many praises sung of me these days, but I won't say that
the mud and venom hurled at me when I stepped forward to serve the Res
Publica didn't hurt. Nova Roma is a place where Latin and the classics are
honored more than they are among classicists, and by a more diverse lot; we
come from all corners of the earth and all walks of life, bound by a love of
an ancient, and great, civilization. I for one am grateful to you and to M.
Cassius Julianus for this vision, and to all who brought it to fruition.

Thank you for your very kind words, and your support.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Consular
Senator

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Flavius_Vedius_Germanicus_(Election_MMDCCLIX)

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

On 11/5/06, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> M.Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> and that is the sad point that Scholastica sees this as
> pornography. I think a discussion of Catullus and Martial on the ML
> would only enhance Nova Roma..........
> This is a very serious topic, Scholastica, and as a Latin
> and Greek scholar, that you can say such things about the greatest
> Roman writers is just astounding. And frankly is why you aren't
> ready to be praetrix.
>

A Tullia Scholastica is absolutely right in reminding us that we have minors
on this list. Whether she or you or I am offended by such material is
totally irrelevant. What matters is that people may be deeply offended at
finding their children being given access to such material. Indeed I have
known people taken to court and labelled as sex offenders for similar
actions. I personally have no issues with his writings, not that I've read
them all, I personally would have no issue with my children reading them but
the fact remains, I know people who would.

The fact that you can say that someone who reminds us of this is therefore
not fit to serve the republic is truly astounding. In my view it simply
underlines her total appropriateness to be praetor.

Flavia Lucila Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato.

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Nonis Novembribus; haec dies fastus est.

The Nones are sacred to Iuno Covella (Iuno of the Hollow Moon).

"The new consuls, after taking over the army from their predecessors,
entered the enemy's territory and carried their depredations up to the
walls of their city. The Sidicines had got together an immense army,
and were evidently prepared to fight desperately for their last hope;
there was also a report that Samnium was being roused into
hostilities. A Dictator was accordingly nominated by the consuls on
the resolution of the senate-P. Cornelius Rufinus; the Master of the
Horse was M. Antonius. Subsequently a religious difficulty arose
through an informality in their nomination, and they resigned their
posts. In consequence of a pestilence which followed, it seemed as
though all the auspices were tainted by that informality, and matters
reverted to an interregnum. There were five interreges and under the
last one, M. Valerius Corvus, the consuls elected were C. Cornelius
(for the second time) and Cn. Domitius. Matters were now quiet, but a
rumour of a Gaulish war created as much alarm as an actual invasion,
and it was decided that a Dictator should be appointed. M. Papirius
Crassus was nominated, his Master of the Horse being P. Valerius
Publicola. Whilst they were raising a stronger levy than was usual in
wars near at hand, the reconnoitring parties that had been sent out
reported that all was quiet amongst the Gauls. For the last two years
there had been suspicions of a movement in Samnium in favour of a
change of policy, and as a measure of precaution the Roman army was
not withdrawn from the Sidicine territory. The landing of Alexander of
Epirus near Paestum led the Samnites to make common cause with the
Lucanians, but their united forces were defeated by turn in a pitched
battle. He then established friendly relations with Rome, but it is
very doubtful how far he would have maintained them had his other
enterprises been equally successful. In this year a census was taken,
the censors being Q. Publilius Philo and Sp. Postumius. The new
citizens were assessed and formed into two additional tribes, the
Maecian and the Scaptian. L. Papirius, the praetor, secured the
passage of a law by which the rights of citizenship without the
franchise were conferred on the inhabitants of Acerrae. These were the
military and civil transactions for the year." - Livy, History of Rome
8.17


ROMAN REPUBLICAN TERMS - PRAETOR

"Regio imperio duo sunto, iique a praeeundo iudicando consulendo
praetores iudices consules appellamino. Militiae summum ius
habento..." (Let there be two with the authority of the king, and let
them be called praetors, judges and consuls from their going before,
judging and consulting. Let them have the supreme law of the
militia...) - Cicero, de Legibus 6.42

Praetor was a title granted by the government of ancient Rome to men
acting in one of two official capacities: the commander of an army,
either before it was mustered or more typically in the field, or an
elected magistrate assigned duties that varied depending on the
historical period. The magistracy was called the praetura
(praetorship). Its functions were described by the adjective: the
praetoria potestas or praetorium imperium (praetorian power and
authority) and the praetoria ius, a body of legal precedents set down
by the praetors. Praetorium as a substantive meant the location from
which the praetor exercised his authority, either the headquarters of
his castra, the courthouse (tribunal) of his judiciary, or the city
hall of his provincial governorship. The word was certainly used to
describe the first consuls.

After the reforms of the 360's BC, the title was used to describe a
patrician magistrate who was responsible for the administration of
justice. Later, plebeians were also allowed to be praetor. In 242, a
second praetor was introduced, the praetor peregrinus, who was
responsible for Italy. The first praetor, the praetor urbanus, stayed
in Rome.

In 227, two additional praetors were introduced: they were responsible
for the provinces of Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica. After the creation
of provinces in Spain (Hispania Citerior and Ulterior) in 197, the
number was raised to six, which was sufficient. When new territories
were conquered, no new praetors were appointed. At that time, the
office was occupied for two years.

The praetors were chosen by the Comitia centuriata, an assembly of the
people in which the richest Romans were in the majority. After the Lex
Vibia annalis (180), a minimum age of 40 years was required. Not much
later, a new task was given to the praetor urbanus: he was to be the
chairman of the law court that judged corrupt governors. At the same
time, the provincial praetors disappeared; instead, some financial
tasks were added.

After Sulla, the number of praetors rose to 8 or 10, after Caesar it
was 10 or 12. Under the empire, it fluctuated between 10 and 18. The
minimum age was lowered to 30 and a new task had been added: the
praetor had to pay for the Games.

A praetor had six bodyguards (lictores) and was allowed to wear a
purple-bordered toga.



"Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
Gunpowder Treason and Plot.
We know no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
Holla boys! holla boys! huzza-a-a!
A stick and a stake, for King George's sake,
A stick and a stump, for Guy Fawkes's rump!
Holla boys! holla boys! huzza-a-a!" - Traditional English rhyme about
the Gunpowder Plot of 1605

The Gunpowder Plot of 1605 was a desperate but failed attempt by a
group of provincial English Catholic extremists to kill King James I
of England and VI of Scotland, his family, and most of the Protestant
aristocracy in one fell swoop by blowing up the Houses of Parliament
during the State Opening. The conspirators had then planned to abduct
the royal children, not present in parliament, and then incite a
revolt in the Midlands.

The Gunpowder Plot was one of a series of unsuccessful assassination
attempts against James I; the Main Plot and the Bye Plot of 1603 being
earlier attempts. Many believe the plot to have been associated with
the Counter-Reformation, due to the prior knowledge of the plot by the
principal Jesuit of England Father Henry Garnet. The plot is sometimes
today called an act of terrorism, but the aims of the conspirators
were arguably quite distinguishable from those of terrorists.
Anachronism aside, at the time it would have been regarded simply as a
seditious act of regicide.

The conspirators were able to rent an undercroft in the house adjacent
to the old House of Lords where the State Opening of Parliament would
take place. There are suggestions that the initial plan was to tunnel
from the undercroft of the adjacent building by mining and then plant
the explosives under the meeting chamber in the House of Lords. This
plan was abandoned, however, when Thomas Percy, one of the
conspirators, was able to arrange the rent of an undercroft directly
below the House of Lords.

Fawkes assisted in filling the room with gunpowder which was concealed
beneath bric-a-brac in the undercrofts of the House of Lords building.
By March 1605 they had filled the undercroft underneath the House of
Lords with 36 barrels belonging to John Whynniard, concealed under a
store of winter fuel. The barrels contained an estimated 2.5 tonnes of
gunpowder. Had they been successfully ignited, the explosion could
have reduced many of the buildings in the Old Palace of Westminster
complex, including the Abbey, to rubble and would have blown out
windows in the surrounding area of about a 1 kilometre radius.

The fifth of November is variously called Firework Night, Bonfire
Night or Guy Fawkes Day. An Act of Parliament (3 James I, cap 1) was
passed to appoint 5th November in each year as a day of thanksgiving
for 'the joyful day of deliverance'. The Act remained in force until
1859. On 5 November 1605, it is said the populace of London celebrated
the defeat of the plot by fires and street festivities. Similar
celebrations must have taken place on the anniversary and, over the
years, became a tradition - in many places a holiday was observed. (It
is not celebrated in Northern Ireland).

It is still the custom in Britain on, or around, 5th November to let
off fireworks. For weeks previously, children have been making guys -
effigies supposedly of Fawkes - nowadays usually formed from old
clothes stuffed with newspaper, and equipped with a grotesque mask, to
be burnt on the November 5th bonfire. The word 'guy' came thus in the
19th century to mean a weirdly dressed person, and hence in the 20th
century in the USA to mean, in slang usage, any male person.

Institutions and towns may hold firework displays and bonfire parties,
and the same is done, despite the danger of fireworks, on a smaller
scale in back gardens throughout the country. In some areas, such as
Lewes and Battle in Sussex, there are extensive processions and a
great bonfire. Children exhibit effigies of Guy Fawkes in the street
to collect money for fireworks.

The Houses of Parliament are still searched by the Yeomen of the Guard
before the State Opening which since 1928 has been held in November.
Ostensibly to ensure no latter-day Guy Fawkes is concealed in the
cellars, this is retained as a picturesque custom rather than a
serious anti-terrorist precaution. It is said that for superstitious
reasons no State Opening will be held on 5 November, but this is
untrue. The State Opening was on 5 November in, for instance, 1957.



Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy, Cicero, Wikipedia

Cato A. Tulliae Scholasticae M. Hortensiae Maiori omnibusque SPD

Ladies, if I may interject :-)

Tullia Scholastica is absolutely correct when she points out that
certain passages from, in this case, Martial or Catullus might not be
appropriate reading for a minor. The same could be true in the case
of certain passages of Iuvenal, Flavius Iosephus, and the Hebrew,
Norse, Babylonian, Egyptian or Christian scriptures.

My point is that in pretty much any ancient source there are
descriptions and images - of violence, bestiality, sex, murder, war -
which are unsuitable for children. Does this lessen their importance
as sources for information about the history, culture and social
climate of the societies about which and in which they were written?
No. So Marca Hortensia is absolutely correct in saying that we cannot
simply pass them over because of any personal distaste we might feel
for some of their contents.

Social mores are based upon individual societal needs and
considerations: imagine the disgust with which a member of the US
Southern aristocracy prior to (and indeed long after) the American
Civil War might feel if he saw any number of televised programs in
which blacks are shown to be intelligent, independent, and
individually capable of not only being part of, but being a
substantive, creative and equal members of our society. Imagine the
distaste and even religious revulsion with which an ancient Roman
might view the idea of a woman speaking her mind in the Senate House
not as a supplicant, but as a Senator, or even - blasphemy! the gods
will strike us down! - consul.

The Western obsession with sex and violence is a direct result of the
teachings of St. Augustine of Hippo, who is basically the fulcrum upon
which the Western Christian view of human sexuality turned; he
perfected and expounded the "Christian" horror of all things relating
to the human body - in direct contrast to what he saw as the
licentiousness and careless abandon in the world around him.

As a compromise, could we not follow the example of our Victorian
forebears: if a passage is deemed of questionable taste for any
children on this list, couldn't it be cited in its original tongue?

Valete,

Cato

Salvete, oh neighboor, from the savage hills of Campinas!

Genialis is a jewel of Brasil. I´ve never seen a citizen with so much will
of work. He works, and works hardly. I ´m delighted to have your support.

Genialis as well is a devote follower of the religio romana, having helped
me a lot for the foundations of the provincial worship.

It is good to receive support from citizens more worthy to receive my
support than I of them!

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!


2006/11/4, Titus Arminius Genialis <tagenialis@...>:

>
> Salvete quirites
>
> Now that the Cista is open, I would like to show my endorsement for LUCIUS
> ARMINIUS FAUSTUS as Consul 2760.
>
> FAUSTUS has already sat Quaestor, Aedilis Plebis, Tribunus Plebis,
> Propraetor Brasiliae and Praetor.
>
> Besides, FAUSTUS has been Senator since 2758 and has already been
> Interpres
> for Portuguese language as well as Scriba to many different
> office-holders.
>
> FAUSTUS is a good man, who has a huge amount of good ideas and great
> creative ability.
>
> I am absolutely sure FAUSTUS is going to achieve great enhancements for
> our
> Republic and for each Province.
>
> So, when you are in the Cista, don't forget to vote FAUSTUS for Consul.
>
>
> Valete
>
> TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
> Legatus Externis Rebus Brasiliae Provinciae
> Scriba Propraetoris ad Latinitatem Brasiliae Provinciae
> HYPERLINK "mailto:tagenialis@..."tagenialis@...
>
> NOV 3-12, FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 3/11/2006
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, excellent Cordus,

May the gods pay you dearly for your vote.

"There is, I think, one exception to what I said above. In the election for
consul, there were two non-continuing candidates, L. Arminius and Fl.
Vedius. I voted for Faustus but not for Vedius. Why not for Vedius? The
answer is that, although he was not seeking continuatio, he was seeking a
very closely related phenomenon, iteratio. Continuatio is holding office
two years in a row. "

I was praetor last year, but this year I hold no magistrature. I´m member of
the Ordo Senatorium (or ibus?) , but surely this isnt a magistrature.

And rest assured, Cordus dearest, Heart of NR, next year we will make the
reforms to fix the denominations of the powers of the magistratures as you
so much have explained here.

I was quaestor, praetor and now I seek the consulship. I´m right on the
original curso honorum. As a side ´cursus´, I was tribune, aedile. I was
apparitor many times, interpreter as well. I was propraetor of Brasilia too,
most honoured province that growns so much on NR.

So voting on Faustus is the assurance the roman path is been followed.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!

2006/11/4, A. Apollonius Cordus <a_apollonius_cordus@...>:

>
>
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

BY the holy fire, receiving the support of a Vestal!

We have much to do in favour of NR. May, by the holy fire, that is
continuity may not be broken with us. The future consules have the duty to
be another piece of the chain passing history.

And may the future consules keeps the political conditions for the Vesta´s
fire shines. If not phisically, at least on the Pritaneus of our Heart.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL


PS. Pritaneus is greek, isn´t? I simply forgot hoe to say in latin... it is
called Vesta anyway, isn´t? Oh, where is my Coulanges?

2006/11/5, marcushoratius <mhoratius@...>:

>
> Salva sis casta Lucia Lupa, teque bona Vesta auctet ope
>
> My great thanks to you, Vestal Modia. Kind Vesta, whose eternal
> flame lights the Eternal City, sits at a place of honor in the center
> of my home, as I know She is with Faustus as well.
>
> The warmth of Vesta is offered to all alike. I have always tried to
> follow Her example when conferring with others.
>
> Gratias maximus tibi ago. Vade in pace Vesta
> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Samantha" <lucia_modia_lupa@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> > I do not typically get involved much in the political side of Nova
> > Roma, and more often then not the high activity on the mainlist
> gets
> > away from me.
> >
> > However, in this case I would like to step forward and join those
> > supporting Piscinus and Faustus for consul. I believe the work that
> > Faustus has done will benefit us all. Additionally, I believe that
> > Piscinus, who often takes time to communicate with people one on
> one
> > and has done a great deal of work in advancing the religio, has the
> > dedication and leadership that would be highly beneficial for Nova
> > Roma. With the work that he has done on the local level, as well as
> > that which has been done to exist those of us who are long
> distance,
> > I believe that he will aid NR into a more active existance in the
> > public. He has been a consistant guide for as long as I have known
> > him.
> >
> > I wish them the best for this running and encourage the citizens to
> > vote for Faustus and Piscinus for consul.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Lucia Modia Lupa
> > Vestal
> > Sacerdos Diana
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sextus Pontius Pilatus Barbatus G Equiti Catoni, M Hortensiae Maiori
omnibusque s.p.d.



Indeed, Cato is correct. I have a Victorian copy of BoccaccioÂ’s Decamerone,
in which the ‘rude’ chapters are left in their original Italian. In the same
way, my 1879 edition of Lewis & Short prints against certain Latin words “to
perform an indecent act”, whereas the new Oxford Latin Dictionary gives a
graphic explanation. Alia tempora alii mores!



Valete optime!





_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of gequitiuscato
Sent: 05 November 2006 12:33
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Epigrams of Martial...to the Praetores



Cato A. Tulliae Scholasticae M. Hortensiae Maiori omnibusque SPD

Ladies, if I may interject :-)

Tullia Scholastica is absolutely correct when she points out that
certain passages from, in this case, Martial or Catullus might not be
appropriate reading for a minor. The same could be true in the case
of certain passages of Iuvenal, Flavius Iosephus, and the Hebrew,
Norse, Babylonian, Egyptian or Christian scriptures.

My point is that in pretty much any ancient source there are
descriptions and images - of violence, bestiality, sex, murder, war -
which are unsuitable for children. Does this lessen their importance
as sources for information about the history, culture and social
climate of the societies about which and in which they were written?
No. So Marca Hortensia is absolutely correct in saying that we cannot
simply pass them over because of any personal distaste we might feel
for some of their contents.

Social mores are based upon individual societal needs and
considerations: imagine the disgust with which a member of the US
Southern aristocracy prior to (and indeed long after) the American
Civil War might feel if he saw any number of televised programs in
which blacks are shown to be intelligent, independent, and
individually capable of not only being part of, but being a
substantive, creative and equal members of our society. Imagine the
distaste and even religious revulsion with which an ancient Roman
might view the idea of a woman speaking her mind in the Senate House
not as a supplicant, but as a Senator, or even - blasphemy! the gods
will strike us down! - consul.

The Western obsession with sex and violence is a direct result of the
teachings of St. Augustine of Hippo, who is basically the fulcrum upon
which the Western Christian view of human sexuality turned; he
perfected and expounded the "Christian" horror of all things relating
to the human body - in direct contrast to what he saw as the
licentiousness and careless abandon in the world around him.

As a compromise, could we not follow the example of our Victorian
forebears: if a passage is deemed of questionable taste for any
children on this list, couldn't it be cited in its original tongue?

Valete,

Cato




--
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17:30



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17:30



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve excellent Marcella,

I thank dearly your support. I have to show my past experience and good
will.

The consulship, however, is just ´another brick in the wall´ of NR. We need
good and honoured citizens, like you, to fill all other magistratures as
well.

Valete,
L. Arminius Faustus

FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!
FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!
FAUSTUS FOR CONSUL!

2006/11/5, Tita Artoria Marcella <icehunter@...>:

>
> Salvete quirites,
>
> For Consul I support M. Moravius Piscinus and L. Arminius Faustus. It was
> not as easy a decision as one might think, but it "is" my
> decision. Piscinus I know and respect without question. Faustus? What can
> I say? Energy and creativity!
>
> For Praetor I endorse T. Iulius Sabinus and A. Tullia Scholastica. The
> former I have worked for and know his capabilities and his inclinations. He
> will serve Nova Roma well. The latter has my endorsement because I have
> seen what she is capable of and believe she will make an excellent Praetor.
>
> Optime vale,
> Artoria Marcella
>
> Optime vale,
> Artoria Marcella
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites

The argument on a candidate following the cursus honorum is
baseless. Look at Livy 32.7.2. When the tribunes vetoed T.
Quinctius Flaminius from standing for consul in 199 BCE, immediately
after he was quaestor but without having held other offices first,
and being younger than what was thought preferrable, the matter was
debated in the comitia centuriata and then referred to the Senate.

"The Fathers voted that it seemed proper that all the rights should
reside in the People to elect anyone they chose who sought an office
for which it was not expressly forbidden to him to hold. The
Tribunes yielded to the Senate's will."

Livy records a pespective of Roman traditions that we may take as a
mos maiorum. By that tradition, it is the qualities of an individual
candidate that are to be considered by a comitia, and not any titles
that the candidate may have collected by passing through a cursus
honorum. Nova Roma never fixed a cursus honorum for the very good
reason that such would in some cases deprive the Citizens of
candidates who were better qualified to hold office. The right of
the People to decide resides with the Comitia Centuriata. This is
the mos maiorum of Nova Roma as it was the mos maiorum in the ancient
Respublica Libera.

Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Caecilius Metellus"
<sapientissimi@...> wrote:

>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem.
>
> There has been a lot said about A. Tullia and her decision to seek a
> curule office with imperium recently. There are a lot of factors at
> play here, and I don't even pretend to be aware of them all, but I
> would like to take a moment to comment on those of which I am aware.
>
> I'll begin with the argument that deals with properly climbing the
> cursus. Of the various issues surrounding what has been said so

far,

> I think this has the most attached to it. In the first place is the
> very obvious point that she has not held what may be considered a
> magistracy proper. There are literally billions of reasons why this
> may be the case; I won't presume to know any of them. But this is a
> point for which some seem to want to fault her, and I indeed would

be

> one such. But that can not go without the recognition of how

skilled

> one is for office. It also can not go without the recognition of

the

> fact that we have in our own laws made it clear that one need not

hold

> such offices before seeking this one. And this is where we should
> perhaps stop talking, and begin thinking. So let us ponder as much.
>
> The argument has been made that she should follow the ancient

cursus.

> I don't disagree with that argument, but let us not forget what is

in

> our laws, and what was in the laws of our ancestors. I am no

scholar

> of the field, but a student. It would seem strange to me, though,
> that the laws of our ancestors would not have been a guiding

principle

> on how and when to seek what offices. Had such laws not been in
> place, we could perhaps have seen C. Caesar hold the consulship
> earlier than he had; we could very well have seen M. Cicero never

hold

> the quaestorship. So before we can comment on failing to follow the
> cursus properly, let us not forget what our own laws say. This is

one

> area in which I would argue that if we demand change, then we *must*
> change our laws.
>
> Some have also brought to light the fact that my dear friend Aulus
> Cordus has endorsed me, but has spoken so adamantly against
> Scholastica. I make it no hidden fact that I'm not yet put thirty
> years behind me; I'm only gotten twenty. (That's right folks, I

don't

> drink.) So if I am elected to the quaestorship, I will indeed be in
> violation of the cursus honorum. However, our laws allow me to do

so

> with the permission of both censors and the Senate, and I have
> obtained as much. Again, I point out the fact that, if an argument

is

> to be made, we must begin with changing our laws.
>
> The argument of Scholastica and properly following the cursus is a
> moot one, in my opinion. Our laws permit her to do so, and so she
> shall do so if she pleases. If you choose not to vote in her favor
> for whatever reason, such is your choice. But an argument that she

is

> in violation of ancient custom (which, it bears saying, is not an
> invalid argument) need begin with, or at least be immediately

followed

> by, the fact that our laws permit such.
>
> There was another argument on the temperament of this individual. I
> admit that my experience with Scholastica is limited. However, one
> need only review the archives to find that my temperament is not the
> kindest in these parts, and a simple inquiry with my mother can

reveal

> just how difficult my temperament can be (though, there's a long
> history of things involved there). Yet I still am able to stand for
> the Quaestorship, without argument (to date), and it's no unknown

fact

> that I intend to take up an aedileship, tribunate, praetorship, and
> consulship should the People allow me. We have as a consular
> candidate one who has stated that his temper is not among the best

as

> well. Before anyone goes further with the argument that one's

temper

> is a disqualification for office, one needs to consider how much

that

> bears on an individual's ability to execute the duties of a given
> office well. In this case, I find that it is not the most necessary
> thing. What is necessary, you ask? An ability to review things
> objectively and to handle them responsibly. Consider that, if you
> would be so kind.
>
> Quirites, it boils down to this: if we are to hold in contempt
> individuals violating the mos of our ancestors, then we need hold
> equally in contempt the fact that our laws do so as well. We can

only

> honestly hold one in contempt when we have ensured that our laws and
> our established customs give basis to that. At the moment, that is
> currently not the case.
>
> But at any rate, it has recently become the Nones. I had earlier
> asked that we take a day of thanksgiving today to consider what we
> have, and to be thankful for as much. Rather than arguing any

more, I

> would like that we all take a day to be thankful for each other's
> presence, which only serves to help us grow as individuals. And so

if

> you will excuse me, I need to prepare some things for my father's

grave.

>

M Moravius Piscinus, Tr Pl, F. Galerio Aureliano, Fl, SPD:

Earlier this year the Comitia Plebis Tributa already passed the
Plebescitum Moravium de Ratione Comitiorum Plebis Tributorum that has
the Tribuni Plebis and Aediles Plebis installed on 10 December, as
they shall be this year. I proposed this plebiscitum for the very
reason that Nova Roma would then have plebeian officers already in
office to oversee any problems that might arise in the transition, as
pontentially could have happened last year with the problems we had
with the elections.

Vale et vade in pace Deorum.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
>
> During some research into festivals and holidays of the Roman Year,
I noted
> in H.H. Scullard's book, Festivals and Ceremonies of the Roman
Republic, that
> December 10
> was listed as "Tribuni plebis magistratum ineunt" and that:
>
> "This, and not the first day of the year, was the date for tribunes
to
> assume the office to which they had been elected earlier."
>
> I found this curious and did further reading in Scullard that
indicated that
> on the Kalends of January (by 153 BCE), the Consuls were installed
in
> office, observed the auspices, and proceeded to receive the
official visits of
> friends, clients, and Senators at their home. Later they would
process to the
> Capitoline Hill to receive public acclaim and sacrifice.
Thereafter the senior
> consul summoned a meeting of the Senate to lay our religious and
secular
> matters including the date of the feriae Latinae & the
distribution of the
> provinces. This ended the first day of the year.
>
> This led me to delve into some ancient sources such as Polybius
and Livy in
> which a tribune could prevent a consul from convoking the Senate;
interceed
> against the official functions of the censors; and place a veto
upon an
> ordinance of the Senate. According to Appian, the tribunes could
compel the Senate
> to meet in session or order a review of any prior item under a
fresh
> discussion. They could even make proposals in opposition to a
consul; a right not
> enjoyed by any other magistrate.
>
> Based on this information, I hypothesize that the reason for the
> installation of the Tribunes before that of the Consul or any other
magistrate at the
> beginning of the New Year was to insure that there was no hanky-
panky or
> shenanigans on the part of the new Consuls or Senate during the
first meeting of
> the year.
>
> I believe that the December installation of the Tribunes has merit
and would
> recommend that those who will become Consuls and Tribunes in the
New Year
> consider formulating a concise & brief lex that would bring Nova
Roma into
> closer historical alignment with those ancient and honorable
practices.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

SALVETE
I WANT TO CONGRATULATE OUR NEW CONSULS,AND WISH THEM GOOD LUCK.



VALETE OPTIME



T.FABIUS AGRIPPA












---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus quaestor: L. Arminio consuli candidato: sal.:

>>> I´m member of the Ordo Senatorium (or ibus?) , but ... <<<

The correct form is "ordo senatorius", not "-ium", nor "-ibus". :-)



Cura ut valeas!


__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Romans

FYI

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


===============================================================
explorator 9.28 November 5, 2006
==============================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
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================
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links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
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making use of content gathered in Explorator. Thanks!
=======================================
SNIP

ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
===============================================================
Reburying a Roman villa to protect it:

http://tinyurl.com/yj76zt<http://tinyurl.com/yj76zt> (Lynn News)

Major Roman find in the heart of Colchester:

http://tinyurl.com/ydmrzv<http://tinyurl.com/ydmrzv> (EADT)

A Roman villa find in Spain is holding up road construction:

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_7187.shtml<http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_7187.shtml>

A Roman stud:

http://tinyurl.com/yakvsm<http://tinyurl.com/yakvsm> (CEN)

A Roman chamber tomb from Turkey:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-11/02/content_5282058.htm<http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-11/02/content_5282058.htm>

No digging at the Kerameikos:

http://tinyurl.com/yjl76q<http://tinyurl.com/yjl76q> (Kathimerini)

The Dendra armour needs some conserving:

http://tinyurl.com/yco8nc<http://tinyurl.com/yco8nc> (Kathimerini)

On politics and graffiti:

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/opinion/15917714.htm<http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/opinion/15917714.htm>

Can't remember if we mentioned this study on why crimson in
Pompeiian frescoes is fading:

http://www.esrf.fr/news/pressreleases/pompeii<http://www.esrf.fr/news/pressreleases/pompeii>
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061030120603.htm<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061030120603.htm>

Plenty of coverage of a project to xray a statue of Venus at
the Michael C. Carlos museum with a view to reuniting body and
head:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-11/04/content_5289241.htm<http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-11/04/content_5289241.htm>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061103/ap_on_sc/x_raying_venus<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061103/ap_on_sc/x_raying_venus>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15537678/<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15537678/>

Plenty of coverage/reviews of Fagles' Aeneid translation:

http://www.goshennews.com/entertainment/local_story_307131235.html<http://www.goshennews.com/entertainment/local_story_307131235.html>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061030/ap_en_ot/books_classic_translator_3<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061030/ap_en_ot/books_classic_translator_3>
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/books/30fagl.html<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/books/30fagl.html>
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1834067,001100040001.htm<http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1834067,001100040001.htm>
http://washingtontimes.com/entertainment/20061103-090306-6393r.htm<http://washingtontimes.com/entertainment/20061103-090306-6393r.htm>
http://www.nysun.com/article/42644<http://www.nysun.com/article/42644>

Not sure if we've mentioned this article by Alan Massie on the
popularity of Roman-themed novels:

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7889<http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7889>

Folks might be interested in the way this Latin Fest is set up:

http://tinyurl.com/y93n57<http://tinyurl.com/y93n57> (Statesman)

Another view of the Latin Mass:

http://tinyurl.com/yhpzc7<http://tinyurl.com/yhpzc7> (Boston Globe)

More coverage of the Delphic Oracle stuff:

http://tinyurl.com/y3p5dy<http://tinyurl.com/y3p5dy> (Live Science via Yahoo)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226504,00.html<http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226504,00.html>

More coverage of the Lupanare reopening:

http://www.kthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=36072<http://www.kthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=36072>

Recent reviews from BMCR:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/recent.html<http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/recent.html>

Recent reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.und.ac.za/reviews/2006.htm<http://www.classics.und.acza/reviews/2006.htm>

Visit our blog:

http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism<http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism>

Mediterranean Archaeology:

http://medarch.blogspot.com/<http://medarch.blogspot.com/>
================================================================



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I need a volunteer to translate the following text into Spanish and
send it to me for posting:

==Voting for Magistrates==

You may vote for as many candidates as you wish, but you are advised
to vote only for those candidates you strongly support.

Once cast, a vote may not be altered or rescinded, and the voter
code may not be used again.

The candidates competing for each position are presented in a random
order. The order changes each time this page is reloaded.

Each candidate's name is a link to their declaration for candidacy;
clicking on a name will cause the declaration to appear in a new
window.

==Voting for Laws==

Vote "YES" or "NO" for each law presented. If you do not wish to
vote at all, you can select "ABSTINEO", meaning "I Abstain".
"ABSTINEO" is a neutral choice and will not be counted as a vote
for that issue.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

Salvete

FYI

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

*****************************************************************************

Best-selling translator of 'The Iliad' and 'The Odyssey' completes edition of 'The Aeneid'

By HILLEL ITALIE
AP National Writer

PRINCETON, N.J. - For the past decade, professor emeritus Robert Fagles has kept a Barrington's Atlas on the desk in his study, open to pages showing the Greek isles, the Italian coast and the surrounding Mediterranean, a region sailed in history by many and in legend by the Trojan warrior Aeneas.

You could fill a shelf with translations of "The Aeneid," from John Dryden's edition in the 17th century, to modern volumes by Robert Fitzgerald and Allen Mandelbaum. But if Fagles' long-awaited version sells like his editions of "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," it will eventually be known to hundreds of thousands of readers, by choice and by assignment.

"His diction is lofty, yet without seeming archaic or stilted," says Dr. Robin Mitchell-Boyask, chair of the department of Greek, Hebrew and Roman Classics at Temple University.

The 73-year-old Fagles, thin and slightly stooped in appearance, but rhythmic and precise in speech - the kind of scholar who calls a reporter to apologize for misquoting Tennyson - was interviewed recently on a rainy afternoon, in a winding, 1950s-era house he shares with his wife, Lynne.

Fagles says that Virgil's epic of the founding of Rome was a natural successor to his work on "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," just as "The Aeneid" was Virgil's sequel to Homer's narratives about the Trojan war. "The Aeneid" took around the same time to complete as Fagles' previous translations, but proved the greater challenge, not only because of age but because of language.

Fagles' speciality is Greek, and for "The Aeneid," he had to refresh himself on the Latin he learned in college, using grammar books, and the works of Catullus, Horace and other Roman writers.

"Homer is not a literary language, Homer's is a composer language, as if he were recording a musical event," says Fagles, who taught comparative literature at Princeton University until retiring in 2002.

"Virgil is a writer, a literary writer, and that lent itself to a certain amount of complexity. 'The Aeneid" is one of the saddest poems I know of in any language. It is hard, heroic, heartbreaking."

Translation has always been an art and a science, the strenuous embrace of literal meaning and creative truth, updating the text for the present without losing the spirit of the past. Fagles, whose editions of classical works date back to the early 1960s, finds it the ideal combination of scholarship and creativity, a "discipline that takes me closer to a text than any other way of approaching it."

"I really feel like you get to know your author," he says. "Virgil is often seen as stately, imperial, propagandist, even. I came across those realities, or some of them, but I also came across a remarkably personal and personable poet who utilized the whole arsenal of the effects of Latin. No one can compete with him."

The challenge of translation is illustrated by Virgil's most famous words from "The Aeneid." The first line, "Arma virumque cano," was immortalized in the 17th century by Dryden as "Of Arms and the Man I Sing," a title George Bernard Shaw lifted for his anti-war comedy, "Arms and the Man."

But the line, and meaning, changes with every translator. For Dryden, and for some of Virgil's contemporaries, "Arms and the Man" was Virgil's boast that he would combine the qualities of Homer's two works ("The Iliad" being a story of arms, "The Odyssey" of a man, the warrior Odysseus) into a single story. Fagles' interpretation, "Wars and a man I sing," is more somber, emphasizing the contrast between the plurality of battles (wars) and the singularity of Aeneas (a man).

"I wanted to convey something about the modern understanding of war, and then about a man, an exile, a common soldier left terribly alone in the field of battle," he says. "Aeneas is like Clint Eastwood, like Gary Cooper, a warrior and a worrier. He changes into the heroic tragic man, duty and endure, endure and duty."

Fagles makes other changes. While other translators have told "The Aeneid" in the past tense, Fagles uses the present, believing that the story demanded immediacy and tension, a mythic quality suggesting that the life of Aeneas is renewed with each reading.

For countless students, "The Aeneid" has been one of those dusty, required texts to get through, with its old-world story of gods and fate and empire. But Fagles says that the book is not only a lively read - an Eastwood Western "with better language" - but that its subject has never been more timely.

"I think it's a poem about heroism and empire, about the glory of imperial hopes and the pain of having imperial hopes dashed," he says.

Born in Philadelphia and himself a published poet, Fagles came to classical literature and translation relatively late, or late for his chosen field. He was a junior at Amherst College when he read "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey" and longed to learn them in their original language.

His first published translation, of lyric poet Bacchilydes, came out in 1961, around the same time he joined the Princeton faculty. He has translated several Greek tragedies, including works by Aeschylus and Sophocles, and took on "The Iliad" in the 1970s, the first of his decade-long projects.

"I was younger then," Fagles says with a laugh, "younger and more foolish.

"It was a question of going back to the source - where did the tragedies come from? One of the great surprises and pleasures in translating 'The Iliad' is that so much of it was dramatic discourse, people talking to other people," he says. "It was quite dramatic, not all that far from the plays I worked on."

He has received all the awards for which a translator could wish, including a citation from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and the PEN/Ralph Manheim Medal for lifetime achievement. His editions have been staged all over the world and the audiobooks have attracted such acclaimed actors as Derek Jacobi, who narrates "The Iliad," and Simon Callow for "The Aeneid." One fan even wrote to Fagles, saying he wanted to name his cat after him.

"I suggested 'Bob-Cat,"' Fagles recalls.

He feels grateful just to see "The Aeneid" published. Virgil, who lived in the first century B.C., worked on his masterpiece near the end of his life and died without completing it, urging that the text be destroyed. Fagles, too, wondered if he would finish his work. Years ago, he was diagnosed with cancer, and in 2005, as he was completing "The Aeneid," he learned he had Parkinson's disease.

"I know that even when I started on 'The Iliad,' I thought I was pressing my luck. I didn't know if I would live through it; it's a question on anybody's mind when you take on a 10-year project," he says.

"In a sense, all translations are unfinished. One thing I have learned is that no one will have the final say, that each generation needs its own translation. Some translators, like Dryden, hoped that their work would last longer than a generation. That may be a vain hope."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"O Iuppiter, who does cherish and nurture the human race, through whom we
live and draw the breath of life, in whom rest the hopes and lives of all
humankind, I beg you to grant that this day may prosper whatever we may
undertake."
--Plautus Poenulus 1187-89

The Ludi Plebeii were, according to Pseudo-Asconius (ad Verr. i. p. 143
Orelli), founded to commemorate the freedom of the plebeian order after
the banishment of the kings, or after the secession of the plebeians to
the Aventine. However, historic evidence does not support the first theory
and it is likely that these games were instituted in commemoration of the
reconciliation between the patricians and plebeians after the plebeians
removed to either the mons sacer or, according to others, the Aventine.1

The Ludi were initially conducted from November 16-18, overseen by the
plebeian aediles, (Liv. XXVIII. 10, xxxix 7.) The aediles were garbed in
the robes of a triumphator, hinting at a link between the games and the
ancient triumphal rites.2 They are almost certainly the oldest games
extant, second only to the Ludi Romani held in September. Legend places
the Ludi in the early history of Rome, however, the earliest mention by
Livy sets the games in 216 BCE. (Livy 23.30) in the Circus Flaminius,
built around 220 BCE (Livy Epit.) and the latest record of the games can
be found on the Calendar of Philocalus (354 A.D.).

By 207 BCE the Ludi were celebrated over several days, and the Fasti
Maffeiani, one of the most important surviving contemporary calendars from
the Augustan era, sets the Ludi from 4-17 November.

The central focus of the Ludi was the Epulum Iovis, or feast of Iuppiter,
on the Ides of November, this date being sacred to Him. The Senators ate
at public expense on the Capitoline, while the Roman public dined in the
Forum. The Epulum Iovis were preceded by nine days of theatrical
performances and four days of racing in the Circus. On the day of the
Games, a great Pompa, or procession, led by statues of the Capitoline
Triad, would proceed to the Circus, where Gods and men joined to watch the
races.3

Titus Maccius Plautus (254-184 BCE) probably sold his first plays at the
Ludi, and his play Stichus was first performed at the Ludi Plebeii.
Plautus' puns and slapstick humour were greatly valued by the Romans
themselves (if not by the likes of Horace and Augustus) and influenced a
much later playwright from the 16th Century: William Shakespeare. The
modern and beloved musical, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum
is inspired by Plautus and contains many of his characters, including
Miles Gloriosus, the braggart soldier, Pseudolus, the wily slave, and
Senex, the doddering oldster.

--------------------------------
1 Smith: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities
2 John Scheid, An Introduction to Roman Religion
3 IBID


--
Julilla Sempronia Magna
Plebeian Aedile

Ap. Iul. Priscus A. Tulliae Scholasticae M. Hortensiae Maiori G. Equitio Catoni omnibus SPD

Not only erotic life, but also talking about erotic life was if the utmost importance for romans. I have my major contact with the roman culture during my Master in sexology, in which I studied the peculiarities of roman sex culture, which is immensely rich and an ever-lasting inspiration for all time since. I certainly agree with Cato that these matters must be expressed in ways not offensive for some minors or their families, but surely must be expressed. Thus, why NR officials do not create a specific list to learn the latin sexual terminology, share comfortably the erotic art, and become embedded in the roman sex culture, but also, if some are inclined to do so, to discuss St. Augustine and other early christian thinkers who have influenced western sexuality?

Valete optime

Ap. Iul. Priscus

gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
Cato A. Tulliae Scholasticae M. Hortensiae Maiori omnibusque SPD

Ladies, if I may interject :-)

Tullia Scholastica is absolutely correct when she points out that
certain passages from, in this case, Martial or Catullus might not be
appropriate reading for a minor. The same could be true in the case
of certain passages of Iuvenal, Flavius Iosephus, and the Hebrew,
Norse, Babylonian, Egyptian or Christian scriptures.

My point is that in pretty much any ancient source there are
descriptions and images - of violence, bestiality, sex, murder, war -
which are unsuitable for children. Does this lessen their importance
as sources for information about the history, culture and social
climate of the societies about which and in which they were written?
No. So Marca Hortensia is absolutely correct in saying that we cannot
simply pass them over because of any personal distaste we might feel
for some of their contents.

Social mores are based upon individual societal needs and
considerations: imagine the disgust with which a member of the US
Southern aristocracy prior to (and indeed long after) the American
Civil War might feel if he saw any number of televised programs in
which blacks are shown to be intelligent, independent, and
individually capable of not only being part of, but being a
substantive, creative and equal members of our society. Imagine the
distaste and even religious revulsion with which an ancient Roman
might view the idea of a woman speaking her mind in the Senate House
not as a supplicant, but as a Senator, or even - blasphemy! the gods
will strike us down! - consul.

The Western obsession with sex and violence is a direct result of the
teachings of St. Augustine of Hippo, who is basically the fulcrum upon
which the Western Christian view of human sexuality turned; he
perfected and expounded the "Christian" horror of all things relating
to the human body - in direct contrast to what he saw as the
licentiousness and careless abandon in the world around him.

As a compromise, could we not follow the example of our Victorian
forebears: if a passage is deemed of questionable taste for any
children on this list, couldn't it be cited in its original tongue?

Valete,

Cato






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