I am sure they could not hurt. drumax@...

Thanks

Ap. Claudius

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:25:33 -0000, Peter Bird wrote

> Salve Ap. Claudi Druse!
>
> If the introductory grammar notes that I give to my students to teach them
> conjugation and declension would be of use to you, please let me know and I
> will send them.
>
> Sextus Pontius Pilatus Barbatus
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of drumax
> Sent: 12 November 2006 15:36
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lingua Latina
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica et all,
>
> Thanks very much for your advice which I will try my very best to follow. I
> will be ordering at least the wheelocks book and I will certainly begin on a
> renewed attempt to learn this language on my own as I feel with the help of
> the people here I will have a group of knowledgable people I can rely on for
> help. I will take the advice and begin trying to compose my own messages in
> Latin and sending them off to be review and corrected. I will concentrate
> far more on correct composition and conjugation rather than vocabulary as I
> see the point that my still feeble knowledge of conjugation is obviously a
> major problem in my abilty to translate.
>
> Ap. Claudius Drusus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.3/531 - Release Date: 12/11/2006
> 19:34
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.3/531 - Release Date: 12/11/2006
> 19:34
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus: quiritibus: salutem:

This issue raises a question to me, since it was also discussed recently, that which names have the leges to take. Apollonius has said, and in that I fully agree with him, that leges have ever to take the name their rogator has, more exactly, their rogator's nomen gentile in femaile form. Well, I can recall when I was in the staff of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar, and he has accepted Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus' draft about the name reform. Consul Apulus has accepted as it was, so it was totally Quintilianus' work.
Quintilianus has called his draft as "Lex Fabia Buteana". I admonished him that "Buteana" is a nonexistent word, it probably would be "Buteonia" but Romans never used their cognomina in naming thier leges. Anyway, Consul Apulus presented this bill as "Lex Fabia Buteana", and the Comita has accepted with this name.
And today I read in Censor Cn. Marinus' message that the name of this law is Lex Fabia. After that I see Consul C. Buteo's message that it's Lex Apula Popillia. Now I ask, what is the true name of this lex?
In my view, this could be only "Lex Apula" because it was put to the vote by Consul Fr. Apulus.

Just a bit niggling for you :-)

VALETE!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Propraetor & Quaestor

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
http://mail.yahoo.it

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete, quirites,

All novorromans should repel any attempt to prevent any Comitia to be
called. The Comitia is the expression of freedom and democracy. The Comitia
is the HIGHEST body of decision on the roman system. The Comitia, under the
correct magistrate auspices, is the body that gives the magistrate powers.
The Comitia is the source of all Reforms. Denying the Comitia is denying the
power of the citizens, deny the Comitia is deny the capacity of Nova Roma
learn and correct itself all times.

I warn all Tribunes, the saint defensores of the freedom on this Republic,
to remain vigilant against any attempt against the rigth of having Comitias!

Elected or not, I will give all my energy to defend the rights of the people
on a true Roman Republic!

Vale bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve L. Arminius Faustus

What is this warning in reference to?


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete, quirites,
>
> All novorromans should repel any attempt to prevent any Comitia to

be

> called. The Comitia is the expression of freedom and democracy.

The Comitia

> is the HIGHEST body of decision on the roman system. The Comitia,

under the

> correct magistrate auspices, is the body that gives the magistrate

powers.

> The Comitia is the source of all Reforms. Denying the Comitia is

denying the

> power of the citizens, deny the Comitia is deny the capacity of

Nova Roma

> learn and correct itself all times.
>
> I warn all Tribunes, the saint defensores of the freedom on this

Republic,

> to remain vigilant against any attempt against the rigth of having

Comitias!

>
> Elected or not, I will give all my energy to defend the rights of

the people

> on a true Roman Republic!
>
> Vale bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Semi-Finals

Plebeian Aedile Julilla Sempronia Magna was an enthusiastic Green
supporter, and it galled her somewhat to leave her charioteer out of what
she considered to be the pivotal race of the season, particularly as she
was certain never to have a better vantage point than today for watching
the action. Quadriga after Quadriga assembled behind the alba linea, the
white line, and leaped forward as she dropped the mappa.

The slanting November sun burned with as much strength as He could muster
upon the final race of the day and aurigae and horses were hot and
restive.
Poncianus, sponsored by Caius Arminius Reccanellus, checked the knife at
his side and leaned out over his team to calm them while attendants went
over his quadriga, called Erebus, looking for subtle signs of sabotage. He
had drawn an outside position and he grated his teeth, hoping for a better
position once the race opened up. His only consolation was that his Albata
rival, Petronius Gnipho, driving the quadriga Vita Brevis, had an even
worse position.

Gnipho's assistants carefully inspected the hooves of their finely-matched
team of white horses, stamping and steaming in the late autumn sun.
Earlier they had found half of the lines nearly severed by a sharp knife,
such as each driver carried to cut himself free in the event of a crash.
The attempted sabotage was duly reported to their patron, Censor Gn.
Equitius Marinus, who thanked the gods that he had had the foresight to
distribute bribe money liberally around the stables to ferret out any
wrongdoing.

None of the aurigae paid much attention to newcomer Pes Plumbeus, just in
from the provinces to drive for the Greens in a creaky quadriga dubbed
Arcula Crepitans by its patroness, C Sempr Graccha Volentia. The horses
were another matter: a magnificent set of bay horses stamped restively
behind the line chalked in the dust. Several layabouts hanging over the
wall of the circus took a good look at these and laid money down on the
newcomer. Pes Plumbeus muttered a prayer and grasped an amulet tucked into
his tunic—he had handled this team just twice before and desperately
wanted to win this race.

All eyes were now on Plebeian Aedile Julilla Sempronia Magna in her box at
the far end of the circus and the mappa she held high. As she let it drop,
the teams fairly sprang forward and the Russata driver burst off the line,
lashing his horses, with Petronius Gnipho of the Whites hard on their
heels.

A roar went up from seventy thousand throats as the chariots bore down the
straight and around the curve of the spina, Pes Plumbeus of the greens
maintaining a firm, steady pace along the inside and Poncianus pulling
hard on the traces of his inside horse, trying to lead his team down and
across while the Albata team's white horses pounded along his right flank.

Once, twice, thrice did the gilded bronze dolphins tilt down to mark
another lap completed. The horses thundered down into the first turn of
the fourth lap, with dust flying higher into the enamel-blue sky.
Suddenly, the Red driver leaned out and lashed his right-hand horse,
simultaneously pulling the reins of his big black on the left-hand side.
The quadriga turned sharply inward behind the path of Arcula Crepitans and
suddenly Russata was breathing down the neck of the Green team with Albata
hard on his heels!

The crowd screamed their appreciation of the spectacular move as Poncianus
hugged the inside of the spina, eyes peeled for his next opportunity to
advance. Three more times did the dolphins fall, and the quadrigae pounded
neck-and-neck around the far side of the spina into the final lap.

With less than half a lap remaining Poncianus lashed all four horses as
they kissed the inside curve of the spina and they leaped forward to pull
even with Arcula Crepitans! A thunderous roar pealed from the Red stands
as the crowd surged to its feet to cheer him on to victory as he pulled
slightly ahead as the last dolphin's nose dived down to mark the end of
the race.

Winners of the First Semi-Finals:

1st Place Erebus (Russata)
2nd Place Arcula Crepitans (Praesina)
3rd Place Vita Brevis (Albata)

Erebus and Arcula Crepitans advance to the finals!

NEXT: the second Semifinals races

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Enjoy the Ludi Plebeii!

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna
Aedilis Plebis

---


Pompeia Minucia Strabo Gn Cornelio Lentulo sal.

I shall try to shed some light on your very good questions, if I may.

Generally speaking, the magistrate promulgating the legislation has
his name assigned to that lex. The example from antiquity.

Now, sometimes there are joint comitia calls where a lex would be
named after the two magistrates promulgating same. Happens
frequently in NR.

I know there were constitutional amendments brought before comitia
last year, which had no names. They didn't all pass as
constitutional amendments, but they are still in themselves leges
voted in by the Comitia Centuriata, and they required names
nonetheless. So, not knowing who drafted them, the Wiki staff named
them after the two consuls of 2758, using appropriate Latin
nomenclature.

I do know that Apulus Caesar worked on legislation independent of
his colleague (I was in his cohorte too), and brought these
proposals before comitia during the last election, but I don't
remember if it was a joint call of both he and Laenus Consularis or
not.

We do have a law, the Lex Equitia de Corrigendis Legum Erratis,
whereby minor corrections in grammar or spelling may be made to
existing laws. This doesn't require a visit to comitia but approval
by the Praetores, to insure that the original meaning of the law
isn't altered by the grammatical modifications.

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-02-i.html

Since a visit to comitia to repromulgate cosmetic changes is
unnecessary, the name of the Lex shouldn't change really. Anything
that changes the original meaning though, no matter how minor,
requires a visit to comitia, and that will likely involve a change
in the name of a lex.

I joked the other day that a niddly, inconsequential change in a
punctuation mark of a lex could change the name of it, *if* said
proposal is repromulgated before comitia. True...but thanks to the
above lex, bothering comitia is unnecessary, fortunately.


I don't like to see a change of name in a law that has just
undergone a very minor alteration. But that is the way it seemingly
stands right now.

Now getting back to the names of laws, as to which magistrate they
are attributed, I would think, if there is an issue in this regard,
it would likely be a matter of petitioning the web magister, Latin
interpreter/translator and the Praetores for a correction.

I hope this helps.

Valete




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Lentulus: quiritibus: salutem:
>
> This issue raises a question to me, since it was also discussed

recently, that which names have the leges to take. Apollonius has
said, and in that I fully agree with him, that leges have ever to
take the name their rogator has, more exactly, their rogator's nomen
gentile in femaile form. Well, I can recall when I was in the staff
of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar, and he has accepted Censor Caeso
Fabius Buteo Quintilianus' draft about the name reform. Consul
Apulus has accepted as it was, so it was totally Quintilianus' work.

> Quintilianus has called his draft as "Lex Fabia Buteana". I

admonished him that "Buteana" is a nonexistent word, it probably
would be "Buteonia" but Romans never used their cognomina in naming
thier leges. Anyway, Consul Apulus presented this bill as "Lex Fabia
Buteana", and the Comita has accepted with this name.

> And today I read in Censor Cn. Marinus' message that the name of

this law is Lex Fabia. After that I see Consul C. Buteo's message
that it's Lex Apula Popillia. Now I ask, what is the true name of
this lex?

> In my view, this could be only "Lex Apula" because it was put to

the vote by Consul Fr. Apulus.

>
> Just a bit niggling for you :-)
>
> VALETE!
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> Propraetor & Quaestor
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti

da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi

> http://mail.yahoo.it
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Lentule,

The name of a lex is whatever was given in the proposal that the people voted
on. While my Lex Equitia de Corregendis allows the praetors to approve minor
changes in grammar and composition, I can't imagine that changing the name of
the lex would be covered. The lex was proposed and approved as the lex
Fabia, and that's what it must be called.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> writes:

> Cn. Lentulus: quiritibus: salutem:
>
> This issue raises a question to me, since it was also discussed recently,
> that which names have the leges to take. Apollonius has said, and in that I
> fully agree with him, that leges have ever to take the name their rogator
> has, more exactly, their rogator's nomen gentile in femaile form. Well, I
> can recall when I was in the staff of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar, and
> he has accepted Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus' draft about the
> name reform. Consul Apulus has accepted as it was, so it was totally
> Quintilianus' work.
> Quintilianus has called his draft as "Lex Fabia Buteana". I admonished
> him that "Buteana" is a nonexistent word, it probably would be "Buteonia"
> but Romans never used their cognomina in naming thier leges. Anyway, Consul
> Apulus presented this bill as "Lex Fabia Buteana", and the Comita has
> accepted with this name.
> And today I read in Censor Cn. Marinus' message that the name of this law
> is Lex Fabia. After that I see Consul C. Buteo's message that it's Lex
> Apula Popillia. Now I ask, what is the true name of this lex?
> In my view, this could be only "Lex Apula" because it was put to the vote
> by Consul Fr. Apulus.
>
> Just a bit niggling for you :-)
>
> VALETE!
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> Propraetor & Quaestor

Scaurus Modianus SPD.

The edictum is withdrawn. I shall make no further effort to recognise
the good work of any Nova Roman. You might remove the Lex Cornelia et
Maria de Mutandis Nominibus from the tabularium, where it is listed as
still being in effect.

Scaurus

In a message dated 11/14/2006 8:03:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lafaustus@... writes:
Salvete, quirites,

All novorromans should repel any attempt to prevent any Comitia to be
called. The Comitia is the expression of freedom and democracy. The Comitia
is the HIGHEST body of decision on the roman system. The Comitia, under the
correct magistrate auspices, is the body that gives the magistrate powers.
The Comitia is the source of all Reforms. Denying the Comitia is denying the
power of the citizens, deny the Comitia is deny the capacity of Nova Roma
learn and correct itself all times.


And this speech is in reaction to what, Senator?

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry... comenDable :)

2006/11/14, Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@...>:

>
> Salve, Scaure,
>
> Not necessarily. Revoked laws stay on the tabularium. Perhaps, we must put
> a bigger sign they are revoked to avoid ambiguity.
>
> Your iniciative is comentable, Pontifex! I advice we continuously make
> efforts to recognize the good works for citizens for this Republic!
>
> There will be plenty other forms to praise a citizen and recognize his
> good efforts. I praised Cato, for example, with my vote on last elections :)
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
>
> 2006/11/14, Gregory Rose <gregory.rose@...>:
> >
> > Scaurus Modianus SPD.
> >
> > The edictum is withdrawn. I shall make no further effort to recognise
> > the good work of any Nova Roman. You might remove the Lex Cornelia et
> > Maria de Mutandis Nominibus from the tabularium, where it is listed as
> > still being in effect.
> >
> > Scaurus
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Scaure,

Not necessarily. Revoked laws stay on the tabularium. Perhaps, we must put a
bigger sign they are revoked to avoid ambiguity.

Your iniciative is comentable, Pontifex! I advice we continuously make
efforts to recognize the good works for citizens for this Republic!

There will be plenty other forms to praise a citizen and recognize his good
efforts. I praised Cato, for example, with my vote on last elections :)

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/11/14, Gregory Rose <gregory.rose@...>:

>
> Scaurus Modianus SPD.
>
> The edictum is withdrawn. I shall make no further effort to recognise
> the good work of any Nova Roman. You might remove the Lex Cornelia et
> Maria de Mutandis Nominibus from the tabularium, where it is listed as
> still being in effect.
>
> Scaurus
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete;
in the name of Concordia I hold out my hand in peace to A. Tullia
Scholastica, I apologize for any harsh words & vow to build an
online shrine to Concordia for 2007. My dear friend Faustus is
always an example to me.
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> All contenders, drop down your weapons.
>
> We are in the verge of the election results. Many citizens

fighting here had

> applied for magistratures they have lots of work to do together

next year.

>
> So, in the name of Concordia Publica, let´s not allow that silly

subjects

> the cooperaton of the many magistratures we will need next year.
>
> I have a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
> And let´s raise a shrine to Concordia (even virtually) to mark

this day and

> seal the pact of peace for 2007.
>
> Valete bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus, Senator
>
>
> 2006/11/14, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae

voluntatis

> > S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
> > >
> > > Scholastica, I found it quite disingenuous that you would

voice a

> > > question over the existence of our friendship in one breath

and then

> > > disparage me in the next.
> > >
> > > ATS: Cato, I did not disparage you. I stated a couple of

facts. As for

> > > our friendship, I have not had any personal contact with you

in almost a

> > year,
> > > or longer, until this message appeared.
> > >
> > > If you look back carefully, I have never made any comment

about you or

> > > your candidacy - yet you have on several occasions cast

aspersions on

> > > mine.
> > >
> > > ATS: I have never mentioned your name, or anything referring

to you,

> > > until I did so in my reply to Scaurus¹ post. That was largely

in

> > reference to
> > > Hortensia¹s unremitting assaults, which to me seem politically
> > motivated. I
> > > recall stating that the tribuneship and the consulate were

powerful

> > offices,
> > > and that one should be very careful whom one elects to them,

avoiding

> > those
> > > who seek power; I mentioned that one should vote for

candidates who are

> > going
> > > to stick around, unlike several instances we have had where the
> > magistrate
> > > vanished in the midst of his term, or even before it began. I

made some

> > other
> > > comments, including some about the praetorship and qualities

desirable

> > in
> > > candidates for it, but none, absolutely none, was directed at

you.

> > Believe
> > > what you will, but until that post, I said nothing about you.
> > >
> > > I know that you have not attacked me or anyone; you are far

more a

> > > gentleman than to do that. I merely mentioned that one might

have

> > attacked
> > > you (or anyone else) for not posting to the cohors, or for not

dealing

> > with
> > > the merchants, or what have you, but NO ONE, but no one,

attacked ANY

> > other
> > > candidate for any office below the consulship. I was the sole

recipient

> > of an
> > > unrelenting barrage of cesspool contents. Why? Why was I

singled out for

> > > this horrific treatment? Others are not blameless, or

flawless. None of

> > us
> > > is perfect (though Faustus has referred to you as

Œgodlike...¹). That,

> > Cato,
> > > was my point. I am sorry if you took it otherwise.
> > >
> > > My colleague in the aedileship has never voiced complaint -
> > > quite the contrary, as a matter of fact - and when he has

asked for

> > > assistance I have provided it, just as when I have asked for

assistance

> > > he has done so. There is much more to getting things done than

making

> > > sure you post something on a List somewhere.
> > >
> > > ATS: Indeed there is more to getting things done that writing

letters to

> > > any of our ten zillion lists. It is, however, a good idea to

do so

> > > occasionally, to keep in touch. Hortensia has been pleased to

conduct

> > much,
> > > even most, of the podcast business offlist, and that is not a

good idea.

> > > Cato, you are, as I said, a good, kind, intelligent man, and I

am sure

> > that
> > > you performed your duties. However, absence of posting, etc.,

might well

> > give
> > > the appearance that you did not, and that is why I used the
> > qualification MAY
> > > in my remarks. I did not say THAT you did not perform your

duties, but

> > that
> > > your failure to post MIGHT indicate that, or be interpreted in

that way.

> > We
> > > have had enough instances of disappearing magistrates to

question these

> > > things, and I think it is a legitimate point. I understand

maybe

> > third-hand
> > > that you had a problem with your macro work, and weren¹t able

to pay

> > attention
> > > to NR as much as you would have liked for quite some time, but

perhaps

> > you
> > > were working behind the scenes. It merely wasn¹t evident. As

the saying

> > > goes, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but

it could

> > > conceivably be interpreted in that fashion.
> > >
> > > I would put it down to just another campaign speech, but this

last one

> > > was long after the polls had closed.
> > >
> > > ATS: I can¹t speak for others, but I haven¹t made any campaign

speeches.

> > > Unfortunately, I have been forced to respond to a series of

slanders and

> > > misconceptions hurled at me by those who don¹t want me in any

position

> > more
> > > exalted than janitor at the macellum; it seems that I, and

probably

> > other
> > > scholars, are fine for the grunt work, but when one dares to

raise her

> > head
> > > above that, she gets shot down. NR is overdue for some very

serious

> > > introspection as to why I have been assaulted in this fashion,

and why

> > these
> > > pit bulls were not restrained as they should have been, why

this was

> > > tolerated.
> > >
> > > Once more, I mentioned these facts (and they are facts

[absence of

> > > posting]) only to illustrate that one could have had a

legitimate

> > complaint
> > > about you as ostensibly not doing your job, but no one said

anything,

> > whereas
> > > I was treated like dirt for no reason at all. Moreover, I

mentioned them

> > only
> > > AFTER the cista had closed; to do so earlier would have

appeared

> > self-serving,
> > > and harmful to you.
> > >
> > > So you can justify throwing mud at me
> > >
> > > ATS: I didn¹t throw any mud at you. I stated a couple of

facts, and said

> > > that one might draw a conclusion from them.
> > >
> > > - one person who has said not a
> > > single word against you personally, ever, in any context in

any place

> > > or at any time
> > >
> > > ATS: I¹m aware of that, and grateful.
> > >
> > > - yet climb onto a pristine pillar of self-satisfied and
> > > self-defined moral rectitude and cry "foul!" when others

question or

> > > disagree with you.
> > >
> > > ATS: I don¹t think that you are interpreting things correctly

here.

> > > There hasn¹t been much in the way of legitimate questioning,

or rational

> > > discussion, to say nothing of reasonable disagreement.

Instead, the vast

> > > majority of mudslinging in this campaign has been directed at

me; I even

> > asked
> > > Metellus to intervene, as he had in the consular race, but he

said that

> > he saw
> > > no mud hurled at me. I guess he didn¹t receive some of the

posts; Yahoo

> > has
> > > been ailing of late, and I have missed some of them.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you are more suited to political life than you let on.
> > >
> > > ATS: No, I¹m not. I didn¹t come here for a political career,

nor do I

> > > stay here for one. After what has happened to me, the only

active female

> > > classicist here, and one of the very few classicists

(particularly

> > active
> > > ones) among us even now, the only classicist by training who

has sought

> > higher
> > > office, I would have to advise any of my colleagues to avoid

any such

> > efforts.
> > > I would have to say that Nova Roma should look long and hard

at itself,

> > and in
> > > the course of that introspection, should examine whether it

really does

> > want
> > > to foster the classics, whether it wants to gain credibility

in the

> > outside
> > > world, whether it wants to have classicists among its

citizenry. Some

> > among
> > > you have savaged a person many characterize as nice and kind

and

> > hardworking,
> > > among other things; some among you have made me out to be a

caricature

> > of
> > > myself (or worse)... and no one and no thing, not the praetor

who should

> > have
> > > put a stop to this long ago, not any natural inhibition that

should have

> > > headed such conduct off at the pass, nothing at all put a stop

to this.

> > > Rantings and ravings were concocted about a subject which

might occur

> > once in
> > > five years, if that, all because someone knew that my moral

sense, like

> > that
> > > of most of my colleagues, would be offended by that, so that

votes and

> > > endorsements could be drawn away from me when I responded.

Moreover,

> > most of
> > > this savagery has come from someone who is my student in the

AT; what

> > > institution would allow a student to treat his or her teacher

like that?

> > Not
> > > many, I hope. Classicists, stay away from NR; you aren¹t

wanted. Your

> > > talents are welcome (by lip service at least), but you, and

the moral

> > sense
> > > and ethical philosophy most of you bring are not. If some of

us leave or

> > fade
> > > into the background after this, don¹t be surprised; NR will

get what she

> > > deserves.
> > >
> > > Vale bene,
> > >
> > > Et tu, et vos omnes bonae voluntatis.
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > Vale, et valete,
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete,

I similarly offer my hand to Hotensia Maior, in the same spirit of
Concordia. Our fair Republic is in desperate need of such sentiments.
Let any harsh words between us be similarly dealt with.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Consular
Senator

Maior wrote:

>Salvete;
> in the name of Concordia I hold out my hand in peace to A. Tullia
>Scholastica, I apologize for any harsh words & vow to build an
>online shrine to Concordia for 2007. My dear friend Faustus is
>always an example to me.
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
>

M. Hortensia Fl. Vedio spd;
accepted & my hand is extended to you Flavi Vedi. Let
Pax & Concordia adorn our res publica.
bene vale
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> I similarly offer my hand to Hotensia Maior, in the same spirit of
> Concordia. Our fair Republic is in desperate need of such

sentiments.

> Let any harsh words between us be similarly dealt with.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> Pater Patriae
> Consular
> Senator
>
> Maior wrote:
>
> >Salvete;
> > in the name of Concordia I hold out my hand in peace to A.

Tullia

> >Scholastica, I apologize for any harsh words & vow to build an
> >online shrine to Concordia for 2007. My dear friend Faustus is
> >always an example to me.
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
> When I revised the Tabularium last year under the direction of
> then-praetor Perusianus, the Latin names of several laws were changed to keep
> Caesar and Cicero happy in their resting places, for the Latin on many was
> absolutely atrocious. Moreover, there were duplications: different laws with
> the same name, so I added descriptors to differentiate these laws. At least
> one law had a completely inaccurate name, which was changed to reflect its
> true content, and other changes were made. All of these were published in the
> edictum on this subject. However, the laws passed afterward have not been
> subjected to correction, nor have all of the new, improved versions of the
> laws landed in the wiki Tabularium, though they seem to be in the original
> Tabularium; some of the titles are still the original godawful ones...and
> those in Portuguese, German, etc. never did get corrected; only the English
> ones did.
>
> It is entirely possible that these newer laws have incorrect names (which
> should therefore be corrected); Popillia Senatoria should be all right, but
> others might not be. It should be possible to check with the consules to see
> who promulgated what law...and as far as the nomenclature one is concerned,
> Cordus has informed us that it should not be called the Lex Fabia, as its
> promulgator, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus, was censor, not consul, at the
> time. Possibly something is in the works on that in any case.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> ---
>
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo Gn Cornelio Lentulo sal.
>
> I shall try to shed some light on your very good questions, if I may.
>
> Generally speaking, the magistrate promulgating the legislation has
> his name assigned to that lex. The example from antiquity.
>
> Now, sometimes there are joint comitia calls where a lex would be
> named after the two magistrates promulgating same. Happens
> frequently in NR.
>
> I know there were constitutional amendments brought before comitia
> last year, which had no names. They didn't all pass as
> constitutional amendments, but they are still in themselves leges
> voted in by the Comitia Centuriata, and they required names
> nonetheless. So, not knowing who drafted them, the Wiki staff named
> them after the two consuls of 2758, using appropriate Latin
> nomenclature.
>
> I do know that Apulus Caesar worked on legislation independent of
> his colleague (I was in his cohorte too), and brought these
> proposals before comitia during the last election, but I don't
> remember if it was a joint call of both he and Laenus Consularis or
> not.
>
> We do have a law, the Lex Equitia de Corrigendis Legum Erratis,
> whereby minor corrections in grammar or spelling may be made to
> existing laws. This doesn't require a visit to comitia but approval
> by the Praetores, to insure that the original meaning of the law
> isn't altered by the grammatical modifications.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2004-06-02-i.html
>
> Since a visit to comitia to repromulgate cosmetic changes is
> unnecessary, the name of the Lex shouldn't change really. Anything
> that changes the original meaning though, no matter how minor,
> requires a visit to comitia, and that will likely involve a change
> in the name of a lex.
>
> I joked the other day that a niddly, inconsequential change in a
> punctuation mark of a lex could change the name of it, *if* said
> proposal is repromulgated before comitia. True...but thanks to the
> above lex, bothering comitia is unnecessary, fortunately.
>
> I don't like to see a change of name in a law that has just
> undergone a very minor alteration. But that is the way it seemingly
> stands right now.
>
> Now getting back to the names of laws, as to which magistrate they
> are attributed, I would think, if there is an issue in this regard,
> it would likely be a matter of petitioning the web magister, Latin
> interpreter/translator and the Praetores for a correction.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Valete
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Gnaeus
> Cornelius Lentulus
> <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Cn. Lentulus: quiritibus: salutem:
>> >
>> > This issue raises a question to me, since it was also discussed
> recently, that which names have the leges to take. Apollonius has
> said, and in that I fully agree with him, that leges have ever to
> take the name their rogator has, more exactly, their rogator's nomen
> gentile in femaile form. Well, I can recall when I was in the staff
> of Consul Franciscus Apulus Caesar, and he has accepted Censor Caeso
> Fabius Buteo Quintilianus' draft about the name reform. Consul
> Apulus has accepted as it was, so it was totally Quintilianus' work.
>> > Quintilianus has called his draft as "Lex Fabia Buteana". I
> admonished him that "Buteana" is a nonexistent word, it probably
> would be "Buteonia" but Romans never used their cognomina in naming
> thier leges. Anyway, Consul Apulus presented this bill as "Lex Fabia
> Buteana", and the Comita has accepted with this name.
>> > And today I read in Censor Cn. Marinus' message that the name of
> this law is Lex Fabia. After that I see Consul C. Buteo's message
> that it's Lex Apula Popillia. Now I ask, what is the true name of
> this lex?
>> > In my view, this could be only "Lex Apula" because it was put to
> the vote by Consul Fr. Apulus.
>> >
>> > Just a bit niggling for you :-)
>> >
>> > VALETE!
>> >
>> > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
>> > Propraetor & Quaestor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve A. Tullia Scholastica

how do I tell in you post what is your replys and what is the text you
are replying to? All the lines in your posts start with a " > "
in most e-mail readers that means it is a test that is beening replyed
to. It is very hard to follow your posts.
If you could put in a line like " ATS:" it would help thanks

vale
Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis

House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...

A. Tullia Scholastica L. Arminio Fausto quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

> Salve,
>
> All contenders, drop down your weapons.

What weapons, Fauste amice? I don't have any weapons. I don't even
have a shield to protect me from the gobbets of dreck which have been hurled
at me. I am not a member of a combat-ready brigade or whatever; I am a
peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose character has
been assassinated both publicly and privately.

>
> We are in the verge of the election results. Many citizens fighting here had
> applied for magistratures they have lots of work to do together next year.

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen the tally for the first class
centuries (only the praerogativa), and don't really feel inclined to read
the final one when it arrives.

>
> So, in the name of Concordia Publica, let�s not allow that silly subjects
> the cooperaton of the many magistratures we will need next year.
>
> I have a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.

I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me, and would
not shut up.

> And let�s raise a shrine to Concordia (even virtually) to mark this day and
> seal the pact of peace for 2007.

Somehow I think that if NR put up ten real shrines to Concordia (after
some trillionaire joins us and provides ample land and funds...) it still
wouldn't stop the bickering and fighting on the ML. If memory serves, a
couple of the consular candidates had some rather grandiose schemes for
increasing our numbers and such, but no one wants to address a much simpler
way to accomplish this: stop the fighting on the ML. This is our public
face. Every day someone joins the ML; every day, it seems, someone leaves
it. How many turn away in disgust when they see this sort of thing? When
they see a classicist attacked for having a sense of propriety? When people
are assailed for their dietary preferences, their religious beliefs, or
whatever? When nothing seems too small to start an argument?

No one here is running for the presidency of some macronational country,
nor do I see any skates or pucks or goalie pads, but the NHL probably has
fewer fights than NR does, and macro elections might even be cleaner than
the one involving me as target par excellence.

>
> Valete bene in pacem deorum,

...in pace...

> L. Arminius Faustus, Senator
>

A. Tullia Scholastica

Salvete

Could I ask if people could cut out when replying more of the posts
they are replying to a 20 line reply in a letter that as 120 lines and
a set of replys is getting to be a bit much. just keep the part you
are replying to and pls keep in mind there are people on this list who
pay by the time for there downloads and seeing the same 80 + lines in
the same day( 5 or 8 times) as replys are added and the whole thing is
added to and gets bigger each reply. also keep in mind
some of the people on this list are haveing this list read to them
each day . they can no-longer use there eyes. and it gets bad when (
yes i am one of the readers to people who need it){ I can read much
better then i can write}I have to say " and the reposted 80 lines on
this Sbj is AGAIN reposted..
it also starts to take a very long time to get thru the ( sometimes )
50 mesgs a day or more that hit this list.


Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis

House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
Marcus Cornelius Felix
magewuffa@...

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni L. Arminio Fausto quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato L. Arminio Fausto A. Tulliae Scholasticae SPD
>
> Arminus Faustus is right.
>
> ATS: Just don¹t take his flowery descriptions of you too much to heart,
> Cato, lest some neurosurgeon think that you had hydrocephalus.
>
> Tullia Scholastica, we have never exchanged harsh words
>
> ATS: Indeed not. We have been friends.
>
> and I do not
> intend to continue to do so now.
>
> ATS: Good.
>
> I take your response at its face
> value, and assume no ill-will on your part. Pax.
>
> ATS: Also good. There was no ill-will on my part. I have had it with
> being the palus for gladiatorial combat, however. Life on the far end of the
> firing range is not good. Especially when unjustly condemned.
>
> Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
>
> ATS: Too bad most of the citizens won¹t appreciate this as much as
> Lentulus, Barbatus, Cordus, and I (among others) do. And it doesn¹t even
> translate well, what with that last meaningful syllable...it just works better
> in Latin.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Et tu, et vos omnes. Pax tecum.
>
> Cato

Scholastica


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cn. Lentulus: Tulliae Scholasticae suae: sal.:
>
>> > Moreover, it is not terribly clear to me what bearing the duties of the
>> > quaestorship have on those of the praetorship; the one is
>> > mathematically-oriented, while the other is ethically-oriented. The duties
>> of
>> > the quaestorship seem closely related to those of the aedileship, for both
>> > deal with money, but it is far less clear how either has a bearing on the
>> > praetura.
>
>
> Mea Tullia, I observed that you mentioned many time that the quaestura is
> mathematically oriented office and it does not suit for you. It's not true in
> itself. I am a Quaestor, and I have no mathematical duties at all.
>
> ATS: That¹s good to know, should it become necessary for any of us who
> requires a brain transplant in order to deal with numbers to assume this
> office.
>
> Only those quaestores have mathematical duties whose presiding magistrate has
> public money.
>
> ATS: We have vast sums of money in NR, which is why we have all of these
> marble buildings.... ;-)
>
> So: the Consular Quaestors, and the Quaestor of that Aedilis Curulis who is
> charged with the MMP. So these three Quaestors need minimal mathematical
> skills -- but if they don't have, they can ask help -- as ancient quasetors
> did, because Roman aristocrats didn't make the job of a accountant: they had
> scribas who worked in their name.
>
> ATS: I don¹t think that any of our quaestores have scribae, and I¹m not
> sure that that is allowed...but my hat is off to anyone who could do
> arithmetic in Roman numerals. Lessee, XCVIII minus XIX times III divided by
> XXVII...
>
> Vale!
>
> CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS
> Q V A E S T O R
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, M. Corneli Felix, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
>
>
>
> Salve A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> how do I tell in you post what is your replys and what is the text you
> are replying to? All the lines in your posts start with a " > "
>
> ATS: Several other people seem to have a problem with this...it apparently
> is related to the way your e-mail system treats mine, or treats mine via
> Yahoo. Not being a techie, I have no idea how to cure this, just as I can¹t
> get it to treat quotation marks, apostrophes, and dashes properly while still
> using HTML. I do add my initials for that very purpose, though only at the
> beginning of a paragraph. If there is an interlocutor, I add initials of that
> person where necessary. Usually the little brackets mean any reply, not just
> a test, and they can pile up in such numbers that it becomes all but
> impossible to follow the discussion. Wish I could help. No one said
> computers were perfect; they just think they are.
>
>
> in most e-mail readers that means it is a test that is beening replyed
> to. It is very hard to follow your posts.
> If you could put in a line like " ATS:" it would help thanks
>
> vale
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
> Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis
>
> House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> magewuffa@... <mailto:magewuffa%40gmail.com>
>

Vale,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The Samnite war, the sudden dejection of the Lucanians, and the fact
that the Tarentines had been the instigators were quite sufficient in
themselves to cause the senators anxiety. Fresh trouble, however,
arose this year through the action of the Vestinians, who made common
cause with the Samnites. The matter had been a good deal discussed,
though it had not yet occupied the attention of the government. In the
following year, however, the new consuls, L. Furius Camillus and
Junius Brutus Scaeva, made it the very first question to bring before
the senate. Though the subject was no new one, yet it was felt to be
so serious that the senators shrank from either taking it up or
refusing to deal with it. They were afraid that if they left that
nation unpunished, the neighbouring states might be encouraged to make
a similar display of wanton arrogance, while to punish them by force
of arms might lead others to fear similar treatment and arouse
feelings of resentment. In fact, the whole of these nations-the Marsi,
the Paeligni, and the Marrucini-were quite as warlike as the Samnites,
and in case the Vestinians were attacked would have to be reckoned
with as enemies. The victory, however, rested with that party in the
senate who seemed at the time to possess more daring than prudence,
but the result showed that Fortune favours the bold. The people, with
the sanction of the senate, resolved on war with the Vestinians. The
conduct of that war fell by lot to Brutus, the war in Samnium to
Camillus. Armies were marched into both countries, and by carefully
watching the frontiers the enemy were prevented from effecting a
junction. The consul who had the heavier task, L. Furius, was
overtaken by a serious illness and was obliged to resign his command.
He was ordered to nominate a Dictator to carry on the campaign, and he
nominated L. Papirius Cursor, the foremost soldier of his day, Q.
Fabius Maximus Rullianus being appointed Master of the Horse. The two
distinguished themselves by their conduct in the field, but they made
themselves still more famous by the conflict which broke out between
them, and which almost led to fatal consequences. The other consul,
Brutus, carried on an active campaign amongst the Vestinians without
meeting with a single reverse. He ravaged the fields and burnt the
farm buildings and crops of enemy, and at last drove him reluctantly
into action. A pitched battle was fought, and he inflicted such a
defeat on the Vestinians, though with heavy loss on his own side also,
that they fled to their camp, but not feeling sufficiently protected
by fosse and rampart they dispersed in scattered parties to their
towns, trusting to their strong positions and stone walls for their
defence. Brutus now commenced an attack upon their towns. The first to
be taken was Cutina, which he carried by escalade, after a hot assault
by his men, who were eager to avenge the heavy losses they had
sustained in the previous battle. This was followed by the capture of
Cingilia. He gave the spoil of both cities to his troops as a reward
for their having surmounted the walls and gates of the enemy." - Livy,
History of Rome 8.29




Today is the festival of Shichigosan in Japan. Shichigosan literally
means "seven-five-three"; the ceremony is performed in families who
have daughters of seven, sons of five, and sons and daughters of three
years of age. The children are taken to shrines to to drive out evil
spirits and receive the blessings of the deities. Odd numbers are
considered lucky numbers. Candy in bags that are decorated with
turtles and cranes are given to the children. The candy, the crane and
the turtle all symbolize longevity. It is one of the few occasions
these days on which many Japanese women wear the kimono.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Shichigosan (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2284.html)

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana C. Sempronia Gracchae SPD.

I have tried to e-mail you off-list about 10 days ago, but
have had no reply, so "date veniam, cives" as I use the
main list.

CALENDAR QUESTIONS FOR CANADIAN PURCHASERS
1. Does $17 US include shipping?

2. If there is a shipping charge, what is the charge
for shipping 1 (or 2 or 3 calendars)?

3. Can you please indicate via private e-mail the exact
e-mail address for paypal payments? The ML will
automatically delete part of your e-dress, so the
message will have to be sent privately, or coded
as you did for the contact e-dress (below).

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, C Sempr Graccha Volentia
<alysentellure@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete, Feria Fans!
>

<snip>

>
> ATTN: Canada and Mexico: Originally I intended to offer

a discount only to residents of the U.S., due to my increased
costs both for reposting the individual calendars across the
border and for processing/exchanging non-US currency. However,
having recrunched the numbers a little, I can now offer you
a discount too, if you don’t mind paying $17.00 US rather
than the $16.00 US that your Yank neighbors are paying.
It’s still less than you would pay for direct shipment from
Europe. In your case, I’m afraid, PayPal is necessary,
because, for all its faults, I believe it’s still the
cheapest and easiest way of dealing with currency exchange.

>

<snip>

>
> Order now, pay later! Email me at:

tellure (at) earthlink (dot) net
to reserve your calendar(s), and I’ll bill you
within a few days, with payment instructions. Please
indicate whether you prefer to pay via personal check or
PayPal.

>
> Valete! Habitetis in luce deorum!
> C. Sempronia Graccha Volentia

Salve,

Weapons, I´d said ´dialetic weapons´ :)

No problem. Let´s raise the shrine anyway.

Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/11/15, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>:

>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus: Tulliae Scholasticae suae: sal.:
> >
> >> > Moreover, it is not terribly clear to me what bearing the duties of
> the
> >> > quaestorship have on those of the praetorship; the one is
> >> > mathematically-oriented, while the other is ethically-oriented. The
> duties
> >> of
> >> > the quaestorship seem closely related to those of the aedileship, for
> both
> >> > deal with money, but it is far less clear how either has a bearing on
> the
> >> > praetura.
> >
> >
> > Mea Tullia, I observed that you mentioned many time that the quaestura
> is
> > mathematically oriented office and it does not suit for you. It's not
> true in
> > itself. I am a Quaestor, and I have no mathematical duties at all.
> >
> > ATS: That¹s good to know, should it become necessary for any of us who
> > requires a brain transplant in order to deal with numbers to assume this
> > office.
> >
> > Only those quaestores have mathematical duties whose presiding
> magistrate has
> > public money.
> >
> > ATS: We have vast sums of money in NR, which is why we have all of these
> > marble buildings.... ;-)
> >
> > So: the Consular Quaestors, and the Quaestor of that Aedilis Curulis who
> is
> > charged with the MMP. So these three Quaestors need minimal mathematical
> > skills -- but if they don't have, they can ask help -- as ancient
> quasetors
> > did, because Roman aristocrats didn't make the job of a accountant: they
> had
> > scribas who worked in their name.
> >
> > ATS: I don¹t think that any of our quaestores have scribae, and I¹m not
> > sure that that is allowed...but my hat is off to anyone who could do
> > arithmetic in Roman numerals. Lessee, XCVIII minus XIX times III divided
> by
> > XXVII...
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS
> > Q V A E S T O R
> >
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gn. Equitius Marinus M. Octavius Gracchus Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicunt

Primus Minicius Octavianus in Ordinem Equestrem adscitus est. Versatur
in negotio per Macellum [ut] Armillum. Rogamus ut negotio eius faveatis.

Primus Minicius Octavianus has been elevated to the Ordo Equester. He is
doing business through the Macellum as "Armillum." Please support his
business.

Datum sub manibus nostris ante diem XVII Kal. DECEMBRES MMDCCLIX

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
M•OCTAV•GRACCHUS

Censores, Novae Romae

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

The vote tallies are in process of being reconciled between the
Diribitors. Once this is complete, then the Custodes will take over
the process.

My participation in the process was disrupted by an unexpected double
shift at work yesterday. I will catch up as best I can before Noon
today central US time).

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Diribitor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > Salve, M. Corneli Felix, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
> >
> >

Salve Salve A. Tullia Scholastica

Thanks for your reply I will work on trying to check for your ATS . it
should help.
vale
Marcus Cornelius Felix

Cn. Lentulus: Pompeiae Straboni consuli: salutem dicit:

Thank you, Consul, for your answer, and similarly to those who have also answered.

>>> Generally speaking, the magistrate promulgating the legislation has

his name assigned to that lex. The example from antiquity. <<<

I think this is what we have to follow. If Apulus promulgated this law, this has to be "Lex Apula", not "Apula Popillia" nor "Fabia". Though it was brought before the Comitia as "Fabia", it was just a mistake -- to be now corrected.

>>> I know there were constitutional amendments brought before comitia

last year, which had no names. They didn't all pass as
constitutional amendments, but they are still in themselves leges
voted in by the Comitia Centuriata, and they required names
nonetheless. So, not knowing who drafted them, the Wiki staff named
them after the two consuls of 2758, using appropriate Latin
nomenclature. <<<

It has to be then traced who was the rogator of these leges: whether Apulus solely, or Apulus and LaenAS. Then to ask the praetores to correct their name.

>>> I do know that Apulus Caesar worked on legislation independent of

his colleague (I was in his cohorte too), and brought these
proposals before comitia during the last election, but I don't
remember if it was a joint call of both he and Laenus Consularis or
not. <<<

As I can remember, this lex was brought before the Comitia by Apulus only. But it's possible that my memory doesn't serve me in that question. Anyway, it has to be traced.

>>> Now getting back to the names of laws, as to which magistrate they

are attributed, I would think, if there is an issue in this regard,
it would likely be a matter of petitioning the web magister, Latin
interpreter/translator and the Praetores for a correction. <<<

Yes, Consul, after we are sure that who was/were the rogator(es) of that law, the praetores have to correct the name to Apula or Apula Popillia if it's Laenas' law too.

Cura ut valeas!

CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS propr. & quaes.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cai Equiti,

> The deadline of 48 hours was yesterday at noon (US Eastern Time); the
> following 24 hour deadline falls today at noon (US Eastern Time). I
> trust you will be making the announcement by noon (US Eastern Time)
> today?

I'm sure he'll make the announcement as soon as he receives the
information; but don't expect him to skip class or work to remain
by his keyboard until it happens.

Of course there's no penalty defined for failing to publish the
results by the deadline, nor is there any statement that a delay
will make the results invalid, so it doesn't really matter. We
get them when we get them. If too many deadlines are missed the
only reasonable solution is to simplify the process.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

The diribitores have not yet, as of this morning, sent their material to the
custodes. The custodes will need at least a day to process the material and
break ties in order to certify the results. Once I get the results I will
post them immediately to the list, and I have been in contact with both the
diribitores and the custodes. The law might have been written to expect
immediate results but people cannot put their lives on hold for Nova Roma.
We have one diribitor who has been in the hospital and another resign to run
for tribune. The remaining diribitores are doing the best they can. I
would rather they take the time necessary to do their duty without error,
then to rush and make a mistake. While I would have prefered to have the
results sooner, I understand that things take time and want the diribitores
and custodes to perform their duties without error rather than rush the
results and discover an error after the results were announced.

I appreciate everyone's patience in this matter.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/15/06, gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.
>
> Fabius Modianus, as the presiding magistrate over the elections I am
> hoping that you will uphold the law:
>
> "F. The diribitores shall tally the vote and shall deliver the results
> to the presiding magistrate within 48 hours of the close of the voting
> period; in the cases of a magisterial election, the diribitores shall
> also announce in the appropriate public fora various running tallies as
> provided in V.B below.
>
> G. The presiding magistrate shall announce the results of the vote
> within 24 hours of receiving the results from the diribitores in at
> least the same venues as the original announcement calling the comitia
> was published." - Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum, Sec. 3
>
> The deadline of 48 hours was yesterday at noon (US Eastern Time); the
> following 24 hour deadline falls today at noon (US Eastern Time). I
> trust you will be making the announcement by noon (US Eastern Time)
> today?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cato,

gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.
>
> Fabius Modianus, as the presiding magistrate over the elections I am
> hoping that you will uphold the law:

Knock it off Cato. Now. The consul has done everything he can to insure a
smooth election. It's not his fault that one diribitor resigned to run for
tribune, leaving his fellows short-handed, nor is it his fault that one of
the two custodes seems to be unable to respond to e-mail right now.

Stop the high-handed posturing. You'll get results just as soon as humanly
possible.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

gequitiuscato wrote:

> [...] yesterday at noon (US Eastern Time); [...] today at noon (US
> Eastern Time). [...] by noon (US Eastern Time) today?

Salve, Gai Equiit Cato.

Pardon me, but would you mind using GMT or Roman time? I know where I
live in relation to GMT, and Roman is what we generally use here, but I
just can't seem to bother about memorizing that many other timezones. I
know you're about GMT-6, but that's a guess and I have no idea how your
relationship to Daylight Savings time works. In return, I promise to
avoid using Stockholm (Sweden) Time.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

Q. Caecilius Metellus Omnibus sal.

C. Equiti, I certainly understand your concern, and I want the results
just as much as you do. Trust me! But, having been a diribitor, I
understand how it can take longer than the laws allow. Part of the
problem, at least with last year's election (and quite possibly the
case this year too), is the fact that the diribitores are specifically
prohibited from breaking ties. Because of this, the process takes
longer than the law was designed to accomodate, as the diribitores
make a first count, then pass them on the the Custodes for tie
breaking, then get them back and run them through the rounds, then
perhaps more tie breaking, and so on, until finally all the ties are
broken, all the rounds are completed, and the Custodes have a final
set of votes to certify. (For anyone who is interested in the
specifics of how this process works, I would refer them to my post on
the matter on the NewRoman list.)

There is, of course, something to be said about the timeliness of the
results, which I all too well understand. So far as that is
concerned, perhaps it wouldn't be out of order for some legislation
that would allow the diribitores to break the preliminary ties (i.e.
all but the last), which would likely speed the process quite a bit.

At any rate, I appreciate the work our custodes and diribitores are
doing. I know we all do, but I think most of us are not aware just
how difficult a job it can be. It's certainly nothing short of
time-consuming, and moreso than many think.

Valete,

Q. Caecilius Metellus

Cato omnes SPD

For those of you who are confused, I deleted a post asking about the
timing of the voting announcement after Gn. Marinus sent me his post
(which you see here) privately. I had hoped to get it before anybody
started banging on my head, but too late. So never mind.

Oh, I think NYC is GMT -6. Or something. We just did the
clock-switching thing.

Valete bene,

Cato

M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
I am sorry you reject Concordia, you set a bad example. Now as to
your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students slandered
me..'
Let me point out:
Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex assaults
among other things etc in post #46908
I replied in a LATER post # 46952

So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character. And
any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in case
you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have any
legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.

Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was against you
because you are female, that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc

I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you & apologized. I
think I have showed the high road in terms of character and respect of
Concordia.
M. Hortensia Maior

BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....

14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and defamatory
statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or reputation
of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and apology in
order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of Nova
Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official announcement
of the sentence.


I am a

> peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose

character has

> been assassinated both publicly and privately.
> >
> a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
>
> I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,

and would

> not shut up.
>
>

Cato omnes SPD

Interesting to note, though, that the first two reactions to a simple
question to the presiding magistrate were:

1. "nothing's going to happen even if we break the law", and

2. "it's not his fault"

I find the first frightening and the second presumptive.

Fabius Modianus' answer was actually all I was looking for - he
explained why the process was being delayed and did so without assuming
that I was attacking him.

Valete bene,

Cato

Salve,

Come on, apologize both and drop the dialetic weapons :)
NR needs both.
Only that we will have our shrine

Vale,
LAF


2006/11/15, Maior <rory12001@...>:

>
> M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
> I am sorry you reject Concordia, you set a bad example. Now as to
> your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students slandered
> me..'
> Let me point out:
> Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
> YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex assaults
> among other things etc in post #46908
> I replied in a LATER post # 46952
>
> So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character. And
> any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in case
> you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have any
> legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.
>
> Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was against you
> because you are female, that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
> slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc
>
> I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you & apologized. I
> think I have showed the high road in terms of character and respect of
> Concordia.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....
>
> 14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
> Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and defamatory
> statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or reputation
> of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
> convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and apology in
> order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of Nova
> Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official announcement
> of the sentence.
>
> I am a
> > peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose
> character has
> > been assassinated both publicly and privately.
> > >
> > a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
> >
> > I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,
> and would
> > not shut up.
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Q. Caecilius Metellus Omnibus sal.
>
> C. Equiti, I certainly understand your concern, and I want the results
> just as much as you do. Trust me! But, having been a diribitor, I
> understand how it can take longer than the laws allow. Part of the
> problem, at least with last year's election (and quite possibly the
> case this year too), is the fact that the diribitores are specifically
> prohibited from breaking ties.

Which makes for a very inefficient system - though that was certainly
not the intent.

The basic problem is too much meddling with the rules; the voting rules
seem to change about once every two years. We had a fully automated system
once - the election of 2000 (which was at a rather contentious time, when
almost every office had more candidates than vacancies) took about ten
minutes to tally. Now, it's become complicated enough that the automated
program no longer works (and I won't write another without some assurance
of stability), and a process of minutes now takes days.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

Cato Octavio Graccho sal.

Octavius, is there a root problem that could reasonably be solved -
taking into consideration the ultimate goals of the leges that have
made the system so unworkable?

Vale bene,

Cato

Salve Fauste;
I apologize for my harsh words & hold out my hand in Concordia.
Maior

>
> Salve,
>
> Come on, apologize both and drop the dialetic weapons :)
> NR needs both.
> Only that we will have our shrine
>
> Vale,
> LAF
>
>
> 2006/11/15, Maior <rory12001@...>:
> >
> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
> > I am sorry you reject Concordia, you set a bad example. Now as to
> > your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students

slandered

> > me..'
> > Let me point out:
> > Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
> > YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex

assaults

> > among other things etc in post #46908
> > I replied in a LATER post # 46952
> >
> > So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character.

And

> > any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in

case

> > you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have

any

> > legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.
> >
> > Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was

against you

> > because you are female, that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
> > slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc
> >
> > I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you &

apologized. I

> > think I have showed the high road in terms of character and

respect of

> > Concordia.
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....
> >
> > 14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
> > Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and

defamatory

> > statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or

reputation

> > of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
> > convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and

apology in

> > order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of

Nova

> > Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official

announcement

> > of the sentence.
> >
> > I am a
> > > peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose
> > character has
> > > been assassinated both publicly and privately.
> > > >
> > > a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
> > >
> > > I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,
> > and would
> > > not shut up.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnes SPD



Higgledy-piggledy
Marca Hortensia
trots through the Forum
with leges unrolled;
aims her cries stridently
Aula Scholastic-wise -
who, in her turn, now
has geared up to scold.

Higgledy-piggledy
Aula Scholastica
matron and Latinist
storms into view;
dignified, pulla-clad
(ab incunabulis):
"My name you slander!
You do not speak true!"

Higgledy-piggledy
Gaius Equitius
(almost called "Felix" -
but that's not allowed)
gathers his toga and
pre-praetor-sumptually
offers his legal
advice to the crowd.

Higgledy-piggledy
Marinus, censor,
now takes Cato's ear and
to twist it begins.
"Watch it, young man!"
he says,
"Ur-pompousiality
gets you a nota!"
The crowd starts to grin.

Higgledy-piggledy
Faustus - FOR CONSUL!
appeals to them all to let
Harmony reign.
"Why you not stop?" he cries
(multilinguistically)
"By Ceres, cives,
you causing my pain!"

Higgledy-piggledy
Marcus Octavius
(computer genius) is
tried to the core.
"Stop making leges that
postprogramatically
make it impossible
voting to score!"

Higgledy-piggledy
New Roman quirites,
we are all human,
and mortal, and so:
Iuppiter Optimus
paternalistically
watches, and laughs at
the follies below.



Valete bene,

Cato

P.S. - I had an extra line in M. Hortensia's verse, I get a kick out
of M. Octavius' grumbling, and I thought the first ending a little
too...tediously pious.

Oh Cato!
You're not a poet, but you don't seem to know it!

But it WAS on a Lighter note so in that you succeeded well!
Cheers!
Diana

> Cato Octavio Graccho sal.
>
> Octavius, is there a root problem that could reasonably be solved -
> taking into consideration the ultimate goals of the leges that have
> made the system so unworkable?

I think the root problems are cultural, and there's no quick fix.

Part of the problem is ego; too many consuls, in my opinion, want
desperately to see their name in the Tabularium; they are thrilled
whenever they see someone say "According to the Lex Johnsonia..."
(and their name is in Johnsonius's place). That's why we see trivial
rewrites of things that were already working just fine.

Others have a more noble goal, but one that is nonetheless problematic;
they seek "historical accuracy" and want to do things "the Roman Way".
Unfortunately, in trying to cobble together a system that incorporates
as much historically correct detail as possible, incompatibilities with
present-day reality are ignored. Hence we have a vote-counting procedure
that involves people with day jobs, who are generally in different time
zones - though it probably worked perfectly well when diribitores and
custodes were in the same room. We have "adoption" procedures that
are applied to people who have never met in real life and have no
intention of living together or naming the each other heir. We have a
Senate that is grossly oversized in proportion to the population, such
that new senior magistrates are going to have to wait several years for
a vacancy before getting a permanent seat; and a Senator-appointing
procedure so complex that the Censores - who are, in real life,
a programmer and a physicist, both making our livelihood through
the application of logic - made an appointment that the author of that
lex thought decried as illegal.

And when a real crisis occured, when a well-known neo-N4zi was found
among us, there was nothing we could do to get rid of him, so paralyzed
were the Consuls and Censores by the enormous weight of the laws. The
only reason he's not here anymore is by his own choice, after suffering
a number of small insults; if he hadn't resigned, his probation period
would have ended and he'd have full main list posting privileges.

What I'm seeking is a return to simplicity, so that we can enjoy
Roman culture without having a dozen backseat drivers (the consuls
of past years) interfering with every decision.

Thus, I make an offer to the new Consuls: work with me to simplify
the election procedures, and I'll write a vote-counting program that
can deliver results within an hour or two of the election end
(assuming a diribitor is available to use it then). Let us have
no more botched elections because of complex procedures that ignore
the reality of our means of communication.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

Cn. Lentulus: C. Catoni: salutem:

Thank you for that!

Your sense of humor is excellent! You had irradiated the end of my sad day with this poem I have read before going to sleep.

Nova Romans! Good sense of humor can always help out us in flaming debate! Learn to know how to laugh at yourselves and forget your pridefulness!

>Then Peter came to him and said, “Lord, how many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, I tell you, but seventy-seven times!<

Matthew 18:21

CVRATE VT VALEATIS!

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
Quaestor & Propraetor

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Arminio Fausto quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Fauste, amice, some around here carry pugiones and gladii in the folds of
> their togae, pallae, tunicae, etc. That shrine might not last long, even if
> Yahoo suddenly allowed an attachment with it included.
>
> I have not been receiving all of the messages to the ML for the last few
> days, and could not access it at all last night, so may have missed anything
> else on this or other topics.
>
> In any case, a favorite poem from Horatius is worth repeating:
>
> Integer vitae scelerisque purus
> Non eget Mauris iaculis neque arcu,
> Nec venenata gravida sagittis,
> Fusce, pharetra
>
> Sive per Syrtis iter aestuosas
> Sive facturus per inhospitalem
> Caucasum vel quae loca fabulosus
> Lambit Hydaspes.
>
> An upright person innocent of wrongdoing has no need for Moorish
> javelins or bow, nor a quiver pregnant with poisoned arrows, Fuscus, whether
> he travels through the sweltering Syrtes, the unwelcoming Caucasus, or the
> places the storied Hydaspes laps...
>
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Weapons, I´d said ´dialetic weapons´ :)
>
>
>
> No problem. Let´s raise the shrine anyway.
>
> Vale,
> L. Arminius Faustus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maior Catoni omnibusque spd;

> hilarious amice!

Higgledy-piggledy Cato the wit
ribs the Nova Romans & repines not a bit;-)

lauging Maior

>
>
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> New Roman quirites,
> we are all human,
> and mortal, and so:
> Iuppiter Optimus
> paternalistically
> watches, and laughs at
> the follies below.
>
>
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> P.S. - I had an extra line in M. Hortensia's verse, I get a kick

out

> of M. Octavius' grumbling, and I thought the first ending a little
> too...tediously pious.
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> I would second Metellus¹ reference to his informative posts on vote
> tallying, which reside in the recent archives of the NewRoman list. Those of
> us who were here last year know how arduous this process was, so much so that
> the diribitores¹ terms (and those of all of the magistrates) were perilously
> close to expiring before the votes were tallied. Moreover, the plebeian
> elections lacked certain elements, which is one of the reasons why they (and
> all elections) have been moved forward this year, and the terms of the
> plebeian magistrates set to begin earlier. It makes sense, therefore, that
> the magistrates whose terms begin first should have the votes in their comitia
> counted first, though the tally for the first class centuries should have
> preceded, and to my knowledge has not been reported...but as I said, I have
> been missing a number of posts from this list lately, and may have missed
> something due to non-delivery.
>
> The work of the diribitores and custodes is time-consuming, and exacting.
> Let¹s give them the time they need to do the job properly.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus Omnibus sal.
>
> C. Equiti, I certainly understand your concern, and I want the results
> just as much as you do. Trust me! But, having been a diribitor, I
> understand how it can take longer than the laws allow. Part of the
> problem, at least with last year's election (and quite possibly the
> case this year too), is the fact that the diribitores are specifically
> prohibited from breaking ties. Because of this, the process takes
> longer than the law was designed to accomodate, as the diribitores
> make a first count, then pass them on the the Custodes for tie
> breaking, then get them back and run them through the rounds, then
> perhaps more tie breaking, and so on, until finally all the ties are
> broken, all the rounds are completed, and the Custodes have a final
> set of votes to certify. (For anyone who is interested in the
> specifics of how this process works, I would refer them to my post on
> the matter on the NewRoman list.)
>
> There is, of course, something to be said about the timeliness of the
> results, which I all too well understand. So far as that is
> concerned, perhaps it wouldn't be out of order for some legislation
> that would allow the diribitores to break the preliminary ties (i.e.
> all but the last), which would likely speed the process quite a bit.
>
> At any rate, I appreciate the work our custodes and diribitores are
> doing. I know we all do, but I think most of us are not aware just
> how difficult a job it can be. It's certainly nothing short of
> time-consuming, and moreso than many think.
>
> Valete,
>
> Q. Caecilius Metellus
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
> I am sorry you reject Concordia,
>
> ATS: who said anything about rejecting Concordia? I applaud this...but,
> as I said, any shrine to this would not last long around here in the NR hockey
> league.
>
>
> you set a bad example. Now as to
> your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students slandered
> me..'
> Let me point out:
> Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
> YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex assaults
> among other things etc in post #46908
> I replied in a LATER post # 46952
>
> So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character. And
> any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in case
> you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have any
> legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.
>
> Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was against you
> because you are female,
>
> ATS: Now really...I didn¹t say that Cordus was against me because I was
> female...he was opposed because I hadn¹t held the quaestorship...which was the
> ancient mos, but not our law. I don¹t think he said a word about my gender,
> or his. (very attractive lad, that Cordus, too...)
>
> that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
> slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc
>
> ATS: All of us have the hormones of the opposite sex. People here have
> come to some very strange conclusions about me lately, and spreading some of
> the nonsense derived from those misinterpretations, etc., is perilously close
> to said situation.
>
> I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you & apologized. I
> think I have showed the high road in terms of character and respect of
> Concordia.
>
> ATS: I did not receive any message from you holding out your hand in
> peace; as I said, I have missed some messages from this (and probably other)
> yahoo lists lately. I have also had problems with my e-mail overall, and
> could not access my mail from the ML for several hours last night, whereupon I
> gave up and hit the hay.
>
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....
>
> 14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
> Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and defamatory
> statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or reputation
> of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
> convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and apology in
> order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of Nova
> Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official announcement
> of the sentence.
>
> I am a
>> > peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose
> character has
>> > been assassinated both publicly and privately.
>>> > >
>> > a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
>> >
>> > I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,
> and would
>> > not shut up.
>> >
>> >

Vale, et valete.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Arminio Fausto quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> If I were a member of the CP, I¹d nominate you for fetialis, Fauste.
> Later on, you seem to have accomplished the impossible.
>
> My dignity, honor, and reputation have been severely damaged by certain
> remarks, and I don¹t appreciate that. We need that shrine, but poor Concordia
> suffers greatly on this list, whether it is the matter of Priscus, or of
> Saturninus¹ resignation, or of animal sacrifice, or whatever the red-hot topic
> du jour might happen to be which causes these major volcanic explosions.
>
> My tongue isn¹t sharp enough for this combat, Fauste amice. I would be
> delighted if it would end. Read the verses from that poem by Horace which I
> posted here (assuming that it arrived in your box, always a question with
> Yahoo...).
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Salve,
>
> Come on, apologize both and drop the dialetic weapons :)
> NR needs both.
> Only that we will have our shrine
>
> Vale,
> LAF
>
> 2006/11/15, Maior <rory12001@... <mailto:rory12001%40yahoo.com> >:
>> >
>> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
>> > I am sorry you reject Concordia, you set a bad example. Now as to
>> > your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students slandered
>> > me..'
>> > Let me point out:
>> > Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
>> > YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex assaults
>> > among other things etc in post #46908
>> > I replied in a LATER post # 46952
>> >
>> > So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character. And
>> > any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in case
>> > you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have any
>> > legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.
>> >
>> > Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was against you
>> > because you are female, that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
>> > slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc
>> >
>> > I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you & apologized. I
>> > think I have showed the high road in terms of character and respect of
>> > Concordia.
>> > M. Hortensia Maior
>> >
>> > BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....
>> >
>> > 14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
>> > Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and defamatory
>> > statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or reputation
>> > of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
>> > convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and apology in
>> > order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of Nova
>> > Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official announcement
>> > of the sentence.
>> >
>> > I am a
>>> > > peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose
>> > character has
>>> > > been assassinated both publicly and privately.
>>>> > > >
>>> > > a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
>>> > >
>>> > > I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,
>> > and would
>>> > > not shut up.
>>> > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritibus bonae voluntatis s.p.d.
>
> Hortensia, it would be far better if you would not have said those (and
> other) things about me. I have never done any wrong to you, and moreover am
> not your opponent for the presidency of the US, or anything else. As I said
> earlier, it would be far better if this were to end; I shall add that it would
> have been better still if it hadn¹t started. Like most classicists, I come
> with a sense of propriety; those who don¹t want that will have to do without
> us altogether. The ML is our public face; well over half of the members are
> not citizens, and virtually every day someone leaves or someone joins this
> list. We should show them our best side, not our worst; not the battles, and
> not the seamiest side of ancient or modern existence. There is much that is
> good in NR, and many fine people here, people from all over the world and
> every walk of life. We have much to teach each other, and much to learn from
> one another. We can do quite nicely without the pugnacity and other
> unsuitable behaviors, and discuss topics related to the ancient world and its
> reflection in our time in a family-friendly fashion. The tickets to the
> hockey games and wrestling matches aren¹t available here...
>
> Tentatively, I shall accept your apology, and your proferred hand.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> Salve Fauste;
> I apologize for my harsh words & hold out my hand in Concordia.
> Maior
>> >
>> > Salve,
>> >
>> > Come on, apologize both and drop the dialetic weapons :)
>> > NR needs both.
>> > Only that we will have our shrine
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> > LAF
>> >
>> >
>> > 2006/11/15, Maior <rory12001@...>:
>>> > >
>>> > > M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
>>> > > I am sorry you reject Concordia, you set a bad example. Now as to
>>> > > your claim that 'I didn't start this'... 'one of my students
> slandered
>>> > > me..'
>>> > > Let me point out:
>>> > > Saturninus mentioned your character Nov 1 in #46872
>>> > > YOU replied & discussed your character with reference to sex
> assaults
>>> > > among other things etc in post #46908
>>> > > I replied in a LATER post # 46952
>>> > >
>>> > > So you brought this entire topic up in regard to your character.
> And
>>> > > any of the Quirites may feel free to read the posts. So just in
> case
>>> > > you are feeling in the mood to sue me for Calumny you don't have
> any
>>> > > legal standing. As praetrix you should know Nova Roman Law.
>>> > >
>>> > > Finally you slung nasty things too, like saying Cordus was
> against you
>>> > > because you are female, that I had an overdose of testosterone, I
>>> > > slandered you, am a liar, raging....etc
>>> > >
>>> > > I ignored it & still held out my hand in peace to you &
> apologized. I
>>> > > think I have showed the high road in terms of character and
> respect of
>>> > > Concordia.
>>> > > M. Hortensia Maior
>>> > >
>>> > > BELOW is the NR Lex Salicia on Calumny....
>>> > >
>>> > > 14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
>>> > > Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and
> defamatory
>>> > > statement about a person which has damaged the dignity or
> reputation
>>> > > of that person may be compelled to make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the
>>> > > convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and
> apology in
>>> > > order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of
> Nova
>>> > > Roma's official venues within thirty days of the official
> announcement
>>> > > of the sentence.
>>> > >
>>> > > I am a
>>>> > > > peaceful academic whose every word is misinterpreted and whose
>>> > > character has
>>>> > > > been assassinated both publicly and privately.
>>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > a proposal: Make peace between you. Apologize one to other.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > I didn't start this, Fauste. One of my students slandered me,
>>> > > and would
>>>> > > > not shut up.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> It¹s been a long time since you entertained us with your double-dactyls,
> Cato! I must say no one has ever deemed me worthy of being the subject matter
> for a poem (of course, I¹d rather not be the subject matter for certain
> poets...).
>
> Methinks it is Maior who wants to be pulla-clad; I prefer brighter colors.
> Pulla is for snow-shoveling...
>
> You must have gotten some tips from the diribitores... ;-)
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> Cato omnes SPD
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Marca Hortensia
> trots through the Forum
> with leges unrolled;
> aims her cries stridently
> Aula Scholastic-wise -
> who, in her turn, now
> has geared up to scold.
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Aula Scholastica
> matron and Latinist
> storms into view;
> dignified, pulla-clad
> (ab incunabulis):
> "My name you slander!
> You do not speak true!"
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Gaius Equitius
> (almost called "Felix" -
> but that's not allowed)
> gathers his toga and
> pre-praetor-sumptually
> offers his legal
> advice to the crowd.
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Marinus, censor,
> now takes Cato's ear and
> to twist it begins.
> "Watch it, young man!"
> he says,
> "Ur-pompousiality
> gets you a nota!"
> The crowd starts to grin.
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Faustus - FOR CONSUL!
> appeals to them all to let
> Harmony reign.
> "Why you not stop?" he cries
> (multilinguistically)
> "By Ceres, cives,
> you causing my pain!"
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Marcus Octavius
> (computer genius) is
> tried to the core.
> "Stop making leges that
> postprogramatically
> make it impossible
> voting to score!"
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> New Roman quirites,
> we are all human,
> and mortal, and so:
> Iuppiter Optimus
> paternalistically
> watches, and laughs at
> the follies below.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> P.S. - I had an extra line in M. Hortensia's verse, I get a kick out
> of M. Octavius' grumbling, and I thought the first ending a little
> too...tediously pious.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

In many aspects, we suffer because of our heritage.

On Ancient Rome, the division of powers we are used to know, didn´t existed.
So, legislative, executive and justice (and I say more, the Religio) was in
the magistrate.

The magistrates so act like judges, to interpret the law in each case.

I believe, on this case, the consul has interpreted the law, and seeing the
patterns of what happened, understood. So, the consul use or not the law in
each case. On this case, he understood we had a shortage of magistrates, and
Excellent diribitor Venator had problems, he agreed with this ´timing´

The problems aren´t the law. It is impossible any law forecast all problems
that happens.
The magistrate applies the law to each case.

Vale,
LAF


2006/11/15, gequitiuscato <mlcinnyc@...>:

>
> C. Equitius Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.
>
> Fabius Modianus, as the presiding magistrate over the elections I am
> hoping that you will uphold the law:
>
> "F. The diribitores shall tally the vote and shall deliver the results
> to the presiding magistrate within 48 hours of the close of the voting
> period; in the cases of a magisterial election, the diribitores shall
> also announce in the appropriate public fora various running tallies as
> provided in V.B below.
>
> G. The presiding magistrate shall announce the results of the vote
> within 24 hours of receiving the results from the diribitores in at
> least the same venues as the original announcement calling the comitia
> was published." - Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum, Sec. 3
>
> The deadline of 48 hours was yesterday at noon (US Eastern Time); the
> following 24 hour deadline falls today at noon (US Eastern Time). I
> trust you will be making the announcement by noon (US Eastern Time)
> today?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

The problem of the Senate, indeed, is the Senate were already fill in the
begginings. So, when new citizens come, and - nothing most fair, they needed
a seat by its works throught the cursus honorum and comproved merits (not
only because they were here at the begginings), the Senate have turned
bigger. Perhaps a tight observation of the minimum participation required
would clean the Senate and open the windows to a bit to fresh air. Time to
time, on Rome, the Senate went on renovation.

However, we make no mistake NR works on volunteering and persoanl rewarding.
If we keep the citizens out of the decisions (like already happen in some
´bunkers´ of NR) they lose interest and go away.

Indeed, I agree with excellent Gracche. Building the roman system is not
easy. However, if we do not try, why are we here?

However, I think we couldn´t jump so easy criticizing the law. We have a
diribitor less... The most ´damaged´ (If I can use this word) is the consul.
He understood we have faced a special case.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus



2006/11/15, Matt Hucke <hucke@...>:

>
>
> > Cato Octavio Graccho sal.
> >
> > Octavius, is there a root problem that could reasonably be solved -
> > taking into consideration the ultimate goals of the leges that have
> > made the system so unworkable?
>
> I think the root problems are cultural, and there's no quick fix.
>
> Part of the problem is ego; too many consuls, in my opinion, want
> desperately to see their name in the Tabularium; they are thrilled
> whenever they see someone say "According to the Lex Johnsonia..."
> (and their name is in Johnsonius's place). That's why we see trivial
> rewrites of things that were already working just fine.
>
> Others have a more noble goal, but one that is nonetheless problematic;
> they seek "historical accuracy" and want to do things "the Roman Way".
> Unfortunately, in trying to cobble together a system that incorporates
> as much historically correct detail as possible, incompatibilities with
> present-day reality are ignored. Hence we have a vote-counting procedure
> that involves people with day jobs, who are generally in different time
> zones - though it probably worked perfectly well when diribitores and
> custodes were in the same room. We have "adoption" procedures that
> are applied to people who have never met in real life and have no
> intention of living together or naming the each other heir. We have a
> Senate that is grossly oversized in proportion to the population, such
> that new senior magistrates are going to have to wait several years for
> a vacancy before getting a permanent seat; and a Senator-appointing
> procedure so complex that the Censores - who are, in real life,
> a programmer and a physicist, both making our livelihood through
> the application of logic - made an appointment that the author of that
> lex thought decried as illegal.
>
> And when a real crisis occured, when a well-known neo-N4zi was found
> among us, there was nothing we could do to get rid of him, so paralyzed
> were the Consuls and Censores by the enormous weight of the laws. The
> only reason he's not here anymore is by his own choice, after suffering
> a number of small insults; if he hadn't resigned, his probation period
> would have ended and he'd have full main list posting privileges.
>
> What I'm seeking is a return to simplicity, so that we can enjoy
> Roman culture without having a dozen backseat drivers (the consuls
> of past years) interfering with every decision.
>
> Thus, I make an offer to the new Consuls: work with me to simplify
> the election procedures, and I'll write a vote-counting program that
> can deliver results within an hour or two of the election end
> (assuming a diribitor is available to use it then). Let us have
> no more botched elections because of complex procedures that ignore
> the reality of our means of communication.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Gracchus
> octavius@... <octavius%40novaroma.org> *
> http://www.graveyards.com
>
> -"Apes don't read philosophy."
> -"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
> you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
> Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
> not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
> -from "A Fish Called Wanda"
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scholastica,

Don't pay any attention to anything this Maior says. It seems that her
favorite targets are women who are more popular than she is. And you are and
much more intelligent and kinder as well. Take her offer of Concordia and
shove it up her ass ha ha!!*

Anyway, her offers of Concordia are always followed up by another verbal
attack-- she has a nasty character and just can't help showing it. Unlike me
that is, who is always smiling smiling and happy hee hee!

Oh yeah, Scholastica is in no way responsible for my words above. No doubt
she'll be horrified by this email. She is a lady, unlike me who has a
definite un-ladylike street girl from NYC streak.... And unlike Maior who
wears her bitchiness like a batch of honour. So if anyone wants to scream at
me, feel free, but don't expect me to worry about it much. I am just saying
out loud what most people think about Maior! Someone has to!

Worried about the minors on this list? Minors use "ass" and "bitch" and
much worse-- as much as we "adults".

Valete,
Diana Octavia

*That is the Brooklyn girl talking now--sorry. Every once in awhile she is
inspired to show her face, even after 14 years of living in Europe.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritibus bonae

voluntatis S.P.D.

> >
> >
> >
> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
> > I am sorry you reject Concordia,
> >
> > ATS: who said anything about rejecting Concordia? I applaud

this...but,

> > as I said, any shrine to this would not last long around here in

the NR hockey

> > league.

M. Lucretius Agricola A. Tullio Scholastico sal

I think you are wrong. Overall the ML is a much nicer place than it
was just a couple years ago. It saddens me when leading citizens
express such negative opinions here in public and in front of visitors
and new citizens. Let us rather renew our collective efforts to create
the kind of community that I am sure we all want. Even if there is
reason to be sceptical, it is far better to share our hopes than our
fears.

optime vale!

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The advance into Samnium was made under doubtful auspices. This
circumstance did not portend the result of the campaign, for that was
quite favourable, but it did forshadow the insane passion which the
commanders displayed. Papirius was warned by the pullarius that it
would be necessary to take the auspices afresh. On his departure for
Rome for this purpose, he strictly charged the Master of the Horse to
keep within his lines and not to engage the enemy. After he had gone
Q. Fabius learnt from his scouts that the enemy were showing as much
carelessness as if there were not a single Roman in Samnium. Whether
it was that his youthful temper resented everything being dependent on
the Dictator, or whether he was tempted by the chance offered him of a
brilliant success, at any rate, after making the necessary
preparations and dispositions he advanced as far as Inbrinium-for so
is the district called-and fought a battle with the Samnites. Such was
the fortune of the fight that had the Dictator himself been present he
could have done nothing to make the success more complete. The general
did not disappoint his men, nor did the men disappoint their general.
The cavalry made repeated charges but failed to break through the
massed force opposed to them, and acting on the advice of L. Cominius,
a military tribune, they removed the bits from their horses and
spurred them on so furiously that nothing could withstand them. Riding
down men and armour they spread carnage far and wide. The infantry
followed them and completed the disorder of the enemy. It is said that
they lost 20,000 men that day. Some authorities whom I have consulted
state that there were two battles fought in the Dictator's absence,
and each was a brilliant success. In the oldest writers, however, only
one battle is mentioned, and some annalists omit the incident
altogether.

In consequence of the vast number slain, a large amount of spoil in
the shape of armour and weapons was picked up on the battle-field, and
the Master of the Horse had this collected into a huge heap and burnt.
His object may have been to discharge a vow to some deity. But if we
are to trust the authority of Fabius, he did this to prevent the
Dictator from reaping the fruits of his glory, or carrying the spoils
in his triumph and afterwards placing his name upon them. The fact
also of his sending the despatches announcing his victory to the
senate and not to the Dictator would seem to show that he was by no
means anxious to allow him any share in the credit of it. At all
events the Dictator took it in that light, and whilst everybody else
was jubilant at the victory which had been won, he wore an expression
of gloom and wrath. He abruptly dismissed the senate and hurried from
the Senate-house, repeatedly exclaiming that the authority and dignity
of the Dictator would be as completely overthrown by the Master of the
Horse as the Samnite legions had been if this contempt of his orders
were to remain unpunished. In this angry and menacing mood, he started
with all possible speed for the camp. He was unable, however, to reach
it before news arrived of his approach, for messengers had started
from the City in advance of him, bringing word that the Dictator was
coming bent on vengeance, and almost every other word he uttered was
in praise of T. Manlius." - Livy, History of Rome 8.30



"Hekate Einodia, Trioditis, lovely dame, of earthly, watery, and
celestial frame, sepulchral, in a saffron veil arrayed, pleased with
dark ghosts that wander through the shade; Perseis, solitary goddess,
hail! The world's key-bearer, never doomed to fail; in stags
rejoicing, huntress, nightly seen, and drawn by bulls, unconquerable
queen; Leader, Nymphe, nurse, on mountains wandering, hear the
suppliants who with holy rites thy power revere, and to the herdsman
with a favouring mind draw near." - Orphic Hymn 1 to Hecate

"Hekate Brimo ... hearing his words from the abyss, came up ... She
was garlanded by fearsome snakes that coiled themselves round twigs
of oak; the twinkle of a thousand torches lit the scene; and hounds
of the underworld barked shrilly all around her." - Apollonius
Rhodius, Argonautica 3.1194

"Then, earth began to bellow, trees to dance
And howling dogs in glimmering light advance
Ere Hecate came." - Vergil, The Aeneid Book VL

"[Medea] wearies heaven above and Tartarus beneath with her complains;
she beats upon the ground, and murmuring into her clutching hands
calls on the Queen of Night [Hekate] and Dis [Haides] to bring her aid
by granting death, and to send him who is the cause of her madness
down with her to destruction." – Valerius Flaccus, The Argonautica
7.311

Out of Erebos and Chaos she called Nox (Night) and the Di Nocti (Gods
of Night) and poured a prayer with long-drawn wailing cries to
Hecate ... a groan came from the ground, the bushes blanched, the
spattered sward was soaked with gouts of blood, stones brayed and
bellowed, dogs began to bark, black snakes swarmed on the soil and
ghostly shapes of silent spirits floated through the air." - Ovid,
Metamorphoses 10.403

"Baying [of Hounds] loud as that which rings at the grim gate of Dis
[Haides] or from Hecate's escort [of black hounds] to the world
above." - Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 6.110

"At another time you are Proserpina, whose howls at night inspire
dread, and whose triple form restrains the emergence of ghosts as you
keep the entrance to the earth above firmly barred. You wander
through diverse groves, and are appeased by various rites." -
Apuleius, Golden Ass 11.218



Today in ancient Greece was held in honor of the goddess Hekate. She
is most often shown accompanied by two ghostly hounds, and the barking
of dogs announces Her approach. Hekate is a goddess shrouded in
mystery, for there is continuing debate about Her name, origin and
character. There are few legends about Her,and no fixed geneology.
Some say that Hekate is the daughter of Erebus and Nyx, ageless
Goddess of the night, while others believe that She is one of the
Furies or the last surviving Titan except for Zeus. Hesoid claims
that She was born of the Titan Perses and the star goddess Asteria.
Musaeus claims She was born to Asteria and Zeus, Euripides says She is
a daughter of Leto, while Thessalian legend has it that Hekate is the
daughter of Admetus and a Pheraean woman.

The Olympians "adopted" Her after they had defeated the Titans, but
She was not of the same kind, and never lived amongst them. During
this time Hekate's power was still recognized: Zeus gave Her dominion
over Heaven, Earth and Sea, and they shared the right to grant or
withhold gifts from humanity. Hekate was worshipped as Goddess of
abundance and eloquence. Hekate is sometimes referred to a triple
goddess. Classically She was part of a group with Persephone and
Demeter. Contrary to modern Pagan assumptions, Demeter represents the
old crone woman, Persephone the wife woman, and Hekate is the Maiden.
Every early Greek representation of Hekate shows Her as a young woman.
It is only much later that She is represented as Crone.

In Mytilene on the eastern coast of the Aegean Sea, near what was
Troy, there are Temples of Demeter, where the women would go to the
annual festival of Eleusis to celebrate fertility rites. There is
ample evidence that Hekate was honored there too, perhaps as a guide
for initiates into the Mysteries.

But Hekate's power was to fade. In later myths She is represented as a
daughter of Zeus who rules the Underworld & the waning Moon. The
Greeks began to emphasize Her darker aspects; Hekate as Goddess of the
Dead & Queen of Witches. She was increasingly depicted as roaming the
earth on moonless nights in the company of baying dogs and the hungry
spirits of those dead who were not ready to die, those who were
murdered or not given appropriate burial rites.

Hekate has long been associated with crossroads where three roads
meet. In ancient Greek religion the soul was judged at a place where
three roads meet. One road led to the Elysian Fields, one to the
Fields of Asphodel, and the third road to Tartarus. So any crossroads
where three roads meet might symbolize this place of judgment, and be
seen as a sacred place.

The Romans adopted Hekate, and Her role shifted again. Hekate became
an aspect of the moon Goddess, Diana Triformus: Diana, the Full moon,
associated with Earth; Proserpina, the lunar phases, associated with
Heaven; and Hekate, the New moon, associated with the Underworld.

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy, Vergil, Valerius Flaccus, Ovid, Apuleis, Apollonius Rhodius,
(www.pantheon.org), Wikipedia

Salve,

Indeed. NR List is much better than before.
I fell this climate change on the Senate as well.

Vale,
LAF


2006/11/16, M. Lucretius Agricola <wm_hogue@...>:

>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
> >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia Quiritibus Scholasticae spd;
> > > I am sorry you reject Concordia,
> > >
> > > ATS: who said anything about rejecting Concordia? I applaud
> this...but,
> > > as I said, any shrine to this would not last long around here in
> the NR hockey
> > > league.
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola A. Tullio Scholastico sal
>
> I think you are wrong. Overall the ML is a much nicer place than it
> was just a couple years ago. It saddens me when leading citizens
> express such negative opinions here in public and in front of visitors
> and new citizens. Let us rather renew our collective efforts to create
> the kind of community that I am sure we all want. Even if there is
> reason to be sceptical, it is far better to share our hopes than our
> fears.
>
> optime vale!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

It remainds me a piece of text...


From PLUTARCH, Life of Caius Gracchus (on this case, the death)

(... After Consul Opimius has promoted a bloodbath on Rome and killed Caius
Gracchus...)

But that which angered the common people beyond all these things was,
because at this time, in memory of his success, Opimius built the temple of
Concord, as if he gloried and triumphed in the slaughter of so many
citizens. Somebody in the night time, under the inscription of the temple,
added this verse:--

"Folly and Discord Concord's temple built."
Yet this Opimius, the first who, being consul, presumed to usurp the power
of a dictator, condemning, without any trial, with three thousand other
citizens, Caius Gracchus and Fulvius Flaccus, one of whom had triumphed, and
been consul, the other far excelled all his contemporaries in virtue and
honor,

(...)
"

Text free from Guttemberg Project
Vale,
L. Arminius Faustus



2006/11/16, Diana Aventina <diana@...>:

>
> Salve Scholastica,
>
> Don't pay any attention to anything this Maior says. It seems that her
> favorite targets are women who are more popular than she is. And you are
> and
> much more intelligent and kinder as well. Take her offer of Concordia and
> shove it up her ass ha ha!!*
>
> Anyway, her offers of Concordia are always followed up by another verbal
> attack-- she has a nasty character and just can't help showing it. Unlike
> me
> that is, who is always smiling smiling and happy hee hee!
>
> Oh yeah, Scholastica is in no way responsible for my words above. No doubt
>
> she'll be horrified by this email. She is a lady, unlike me who has a
> definite un-ladylike street girl from NYC streak.... And unlike Maior who
> wears her bitchiness like a batch of honour. So if anyone wants to scream
> at
> me, feel free, but don't expect me to worry about it much. I am just
> saying
> out loud what most people think about Maior! Someone has to!
>
> Worried about the minors on this list? Minors use "ass" and "bitch" and
> much worse-- as much as we "adults".
>
> Valete,
> Diana Octavia
>
> *That is the Brooklyn girl talking now--sorry. Every once in awhile she is
>
> inspired to show her face, even after 14 years of living in Europe.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete fellow citizens,

The Senate is called to order jointly for Novemmber 16, 2006
(2759) by Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus, Consul, and Pompeia Minucia
Stabo, Consul.

The Contio shall formally begin Nov. 16 2759 Midnight Roman Time
(subtract 6 hours for EST, which is 6 pm Nov. 16). The Contio will
end on Nov. 20 Midnight Roman Time (6pm EST). Voting Period shall
commence immediately thereafter and shall end on Nov. 23 midnight
Roman Time (6pm EST)

Addendum: Other items like the preliminary budget for example, we
plan on presenting items for consideration, including this one, in a
future agenda.


Item I: Publius Memmicus Albucius is to be appointed Propraetor
Gallia Provincia (see message 9414 of the Senate list for his
application particulars)


Item II: Lucius Aurelius Severus is to be appointed Propraetor
Canada Orientalis (see message 9403 of the Senate List for his
application particulars)


Item III: The Senate of Nova Roma approves the following Code of
Conduct, adopting its language as a basic policy of what the Senate
body believes to be an appropriate mimimum standard of conduct for
its individual members. A Senatus Consultum does not override the
Censors' authority in this regard, but the Censors are invited to
take this adoption into consideration in any decisions they face
regarding conduct of Senators. Proposal as follows:


Nova Roma Senate Code of Conduct
1. A Nova Roman Senator shall uphold the honor of the Senate of Nova
Roma and of Nova Roma herself. A Senator shall support and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma against all enemies both from without
and from within.
2. Whenever dealing with citizens or others who know him to be a
Senator of Nova Roma, a Nova Roman Senator shall always act in the
best interest of the Republic of Nova Roma, honoring the Gods and
Goddesses of Rome, defending the Religio Romano as the national
religion of Nova Roma, adhering to the Virtues, and never acting in
such a way as to bring disgrace upon the Religio or threaten it's
status as the national religion.
3. A Nova Roman Senator shall recognize that appointment to the
Senate of Nova Roma is a high honor, reposing trust and
responsibility in the Senator. Therefore a Senator will never act in
such a way as to bring disgrace upon the Nova Roma Senate or upon
Nova Roma herself, and will strive to conduct himself according to
the traditional Roman Virtues in all matters touching upon Nova
Roma.
4. A Nova Roman Senator shall keep firmly in mind the mission of the
Nova Roman Senate, and the fact that the Senate acts in the service
of the Republic. When acting within the scope of Nova Roma, in its
Senate, fora, and any other place where the Senator is known to be a
Nova Roman Senator, a Senator's actions will be guided by what he
believes to be the best interests of Nova Roma.
5. A Nova Roman Senator shall report to the Senate any instance in
which he is charged with the commission of a felony or other
macronational crime for which, if convicted, the maximum penalty
would be at least 12 months in confinement. While a charge alone
will not be grounds for removal of a Senator from the Senate rolls,
failure to report such charges will be


Item IV: The Senate approves the formal assignment of the State of
Hawaii, U.S.A. to California Provincia Nova Roma.


Item V: The Senate advises that the following proposal for
constitutional amendment should be placed before the Comitia
Centuriata (note...this is not an attempt to ask the Senate
to 'preratify a constitutional amendment, but a request for advice
as to the plausibility of going further with the item)

I Constitutional Basis, Section A2 CURRENTLY READS: 'This
constitution may be amended by a Lex passed by the Comitia
Centuriata and approved by a vote of two-thirds of the Senate.
PROPOSED REVISION: 'This constitution may be amended by a Lex
passed by the Comitia Centuriata and approved by 2/3 of Senators
voting on the amendment.


Discussion: This was suggested to the Consuls and seems worthy of
consideration. Many agree that there are areas in which our
constitution needs language revisions.... in some ways more so than
revising (and re-revising) our leges. We don't want to make it too
easy to change our highest ruling document, granted; but on the
other hand, we don't want it to be nearly impossible, either. 2/3
of the entire Senate voting 'yes' can be very difficult to obtain
to pass amendments, under the best of circumstances. Hopefully we
will discuss this more fully during contio.

Item VI: The Senate appoints Marcus Octavius Gracchus as Magister
Aranearius (webmaster) Novae Romae 2760 AVC


Item VII: The Senate recognizes Sodalitas Graeciae as an
official Sodalitas of Nova Roma. The proposal is as follows:


Regula Sodalitatis Graeciae----

The Sodalitas Graeciae will dedicate itself to enriching Nova Roma
with knowledge and discussion of the Ancient Greek world.

--Purposes and Goals--
I. To this end, the Sodalitas will operate a mailing list for the
discussion of Ancient Greece. Further instruments of communication
may
be added at a later date at the discretion of the Boule.

II. The Sodalitas will make the greatest efforts to educate the
citizens of Nova Roma about Greek language, philosophy, culture,
society, history, and the contributions of the Greeks in the Roman
world.

III. The Greek language will be utilized as often as possible.
Ancient
Greek was the spoken tongue of learned Romans and the second language
of the Republic; we wish to resurrect this tradition by making
Novaromans aware of the Greek language.
IV. These goals will be achieved by the efforts of the Boule and the
club members. The leadership of the Sodalitas is not only expected
to
manage the organization, but to forward the movement that the
Sodalitas stands for: the revival, in our New Rome, of the Greek
tradition that existed in Old Rome.


--Administration--

A. The active administrators and policy-makers of the Sodalitas are
the three Archontes (sing. Archon)
1. They are collectively charged with managing the various
administrative elements of the Sodalitas. The tasks should be divided
up among the Archontes by mutual consent. A conflict is to be
resolved
by the Ecclesia.
2. Archontes exercise their powers collegially.

B. The Boule is a council composed of the three Archontes. It is a
steering committee tasked with deciding policy and arranging
administration.
1. The Chairman is chosen by lot when the Boule first convenes.
2. A decision of the Boule, which is reached by majority vote, is
known as a nominon (pl. nomina.)
2. The nomina are instructions for the Archontes. An Archon must
follow the nomina of the Boule and the Ecclesia.
3. The Boule has the power to create secondary administrative offices
and committees so that the Sodalitas may perform its tasks more
effectively.

C. The Ecclesia is composed of all members of the Sodalitas.
1. The Ecclesia elects the Archontes every year during December.
Elections are arranged by the Boule.
2. When the Boule makes a nominon, it must be presented to the
Ecclesia. If there is a significant amount of protest, then the Boule
is expected to do away with that nominon out of goodwill. Likewise,
suggestions from the Ecclesia are considered by the Boule.
3. Any member of the Ecclesia may use the voting tool on the
Sodalitas
main list website to introduce to the assembly a nominon, an
amendment
to the Regula, or an impeachment of any official. Impeachments and
amendments must be approved by 2/3 of those voting while it takes 1/2
of those voting to pass a nominon.

VI. The following are rules regarding the management of the
Sodalitas:

A. Elections:
1. The Boule arranges all elections. It does so according to Nova
Roma
law.
2. Archontes are elected during the month of December and take office
on the 1st of January the following year.
3. Elections arranged due to vacancy or removal by impeachment occur
as soon as possible and the victor(s) take(s) office immediately and
remain for the rest of the normal year.

B. Nomina:
1. A nominon produced by the Ecclesia supercedes a conflicting
nominon
produced by the Boule.
2. A nominon must not conflict with the Regula

C. Initial Leadership and Extraordinary Vacancy:
1. When this Regula is approved by the Senate, the first Archontes
will be elected. They will hold office until the normal December
elections the same year.
2. If there fewer than 3 candidates, then the elections will occur,
but a special mechanism will be activated. During a vacancy of this
sort, any member of the Ecclesia will have the power to nominate
himself or another for the office of Archon. Elections will occur
immediately and candidates receiving a plurality will take office at
once. Once all three seats are filled, this process ceases.

D. Ordinary Vacancy:
1. An office is considered vacant if the holder resigns or does not
respond to communication for a period of 2 weeks.
2. However, a magistrate may declare that he/she will be absent and
be
excused from duties for a maximum of three weeks.
3. If the magistrate does not respond to communication after this
period is over, the office will be considered vacant.
4. Once there is a vacant office, elections must occur according to
section VI A3.

E. List management:
1. The Archontes are moderators of all lists controlled by the
Sodalitas Graeciae.
2. The Archontes may remove any list member that they consider to be
disruptive if a warning does not improve the member's behavior.

F. Membership:
1. All citizens and non-citizens are encouraged to join, although
non-citizens, termed "Philoi/Philai Sunadou," will not be permitted
to
the offices of leadership. 2. Membership in the main mailing list is
considered membership in the Sodalitas; leaving the mailing list
meansresigning membership.



Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

Tribunus Plebis

Dawn of the Ludi

The final day of the Ludi Plebeii dawned cool and rainy. Gaia Sempronia
Graccha Volentia turned from the window of the well-appointed room in a
local hospitium and huddled into her warm woolen palla.

"Eheu!" she remarked to her sister, Postuma Sempronia Graccha Placidia,
who had made the journey from Provincia Britannia to observe her sister's
team race in the Finals that day. "How is it possible that this, my debut
into the world of racing, should be so inauspicious? Really, it is too
bad!" Her sister shrugged. "The gods have seen fit to bring Rome rain
today, soror mea," she replied. "But the gods are raining on every team in
today's race, not just your Praesina quadriga. Who can say will win? Let
us go to the Temple of Fortuna on the Quirinal that our ancestor P.
Sempronius Sophus built and make an offering for your auriga Pes Plumbeus,
and perhaps Fortuna will smile upon him!"

Money Changes Hands—yet again

In other parts of town, patrons of the three other teams who had qualified
for the Finals that day made similar prayers for victory, cast
counter-spells to ward off the ill effects of any curse tablets that might
be buried in the dust of the circus. Despite the drizzle, the cobbles of
the Clivus Argentarius were well polished by bettors' feet as thousands of
sestertii were laid down on the outcome of the race.

No amount of rain could drive away the spectators on this, the final day
of the Ludi Plebeii, though many held the libelli sporting the names of
the finalists, their factiones and their horses above their heads to ward
off the damp. Every seat was filled with expectant and eager spectators
who were discussing the merits of each team in loud and, at times,
obstreperous tones.

Before the Race

Behind the carceres the four finalists discussed the condition of the
track with Circus Flaminius staff workers.

"This is merda," exploded Poncianus, driver of the Russata quadriga
Erebus. Just look at this slop! Only a fish could race in these
conditions,” he grumbled. Blue auriga Quintus Iulius Probus looked coolly
across his team. “Stay behind then, Red. Go back to your stabula factionum
and leave the palms to those who are willing to work hard to earn them.”
Pes Plumbeus, inspecting his Praesina quadriga for damage from the
previous daysÂ’ races chuckled and briefly caught the eye of T. Iulius
Sabinus Crassus going over his own team, but the other man, a fellow
Russata, maintained a focused and dignified reserve.

"Make ready! Make ready" instructed several workers at the doors of the
carcereres. "It is nearly time for the race to begin!" And so it was. As
the doors of the carceres were flung wide, the four quadrigae: two reds, a
green and a blue, rolled abreast of the alba linea marked in the sodden
dirt of the circus floor. At the sight of the teams the crowd let out a
thunderous roar. Wet or not, it was the final race of the Ludi Romani and
they were eager to cheer on their heroes to victory!

Not a man among the four assembled behind the alba linea spared a glance
for the statuary liberally decorating the spina, nor dared to wonder if
his own statue might appear one day, erected by those eager to recall
todayÂ’s race. More immediate needs faced them, as the trumpets sounded and
all eyes turned to the small figure of the Plebeian Aedile at the far end,
mappa held high.

"TheyÂ’re off!" roared thousands of voices as the mappa fell, signaling the
start of the race. Arcula Crepitans leaped out ahead in the outside lane
as Hondatus fended off the whip of Poncianus, who madly lashed his rivals
as his own team moved farther to the inside. Sabinus Crassus in the inside
lane, hugged the spina and did his best to conserve his teamÂ’s energies
for the final laps of the race.

Hundreds of spectators leaned out over the rails, screaming encouragement
as the four teams, virtually neck-and-neck, hurtled around the curve of
the spina into the second lap. Muck from the wet track flew from the
horsesÂ’ hooves as they rounded the second turn, and the outside trace
horse of Arcula Crepitans slipped and nearly went down. "Steady! Steady"
cried Pes Plumbeus as he righted the team and pointed them down the track,
but he had slipped to second place behind the Blues, with Aprilis and
Erebus in third and fourth place.

Around the spina flew the racers, with Veneta out in front as the dolphin
fell on the third lap. Cursing, the two red teams shouted to their horses
and jockeyed with each other for the inside line as the track curved
around the far end of the spina. Three more laps unfurled with little
change in position as the aurigae held their pace.

Suddenly, halfway through the sixth lap, the leading Veneta team lost
their footing! Faster than it seemed possible, the quadriga Hondatus
capsized and Quintus Iulius Probus frantically cut at the reins binding
his body to his horsesÂ’ and rolled out of the way of the oncoming teams.

With little time to react to the accident, Pes Plumbeus found his horses
bunched up behind the accident, while Sabinus Crassus in the outside lane
had just enough room to maneuver his horses wide of the floundering
horses! Poncianus hauled on the reins of the inside left horse and Erebus
slowed pivoted to the outside while Pes Plumbeus, stalled behind the
wreckage of Hondatus lashed his outside horses to move them out of the way
of the track crew working frantically to save the frightened and rearing
Blue horses.
The crowd was on its feet, cheering deliriously as Aprilis crossed the
alba linea for the final time, with Erebus two lengths behind and Arcula
Crepitans.

Victory

Dazed, T. Iulius Sabinus Crassus, victor of the Ludi Plebeii, stepped down
from his quadriga at the conclusion of the race, and ascended the spina,
where he received his reward from the hands of Julilla Sempronia Magna,
Plebeian Aedile. "The day is yours, Russata," she cried and in a lower
voice added, "and with this purse you can buy hundreds of your supporters
a drink to celebrate, though it is you, I am guessing, who will be feted
many times before this night is over."

RACE RESULTS—Finals

1st Place Aprilis (Russata)
2nd Place Erebus (Russata)
3rd Place Arcula Crepitans (Praesina)


-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Gratias to all the racers who made this year's Ludi so enjoyable!

--
Julilla Sempronia Magna
Aedilis Plebis

Cato omnes SPD

"However, it is up the those magistrates who can convene the senate to
bring the matter to the attention of the senate...[a]s Consul I will
take your suggestion into due consideration..."

Rats. It seems that somehow the question of my cognomen fell through
the cracks...

Valete bene!

Cato

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Julilla Sempronia Magna
>>> To: ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
>>> Cc: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:39 PM
>>> Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI PLEBEII MMDCCLIX
>>> RACE RESULTS-Finals
>>> 1st Place Aprilis (Russata)
>>> 2nd Place Erebus (Russata)
>>> 3rd Place Arcula Crepitans (Praesina)

Poncianus, my driver, get teh second place!

Next year, at first!!!

Vale & Valete
C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
======================
PROPRAETOR.PROVINCIAE.BRASILIAE
QUAESTOR.NOVAE.ROMAE
SCRIBA
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete.

This is my first victory. What I can say? I'm honored and the
victory is dedicated to my mother.

I'm honored to receive the reward from the Julilla Sempronia Magna
hands. We have the same wonderful passion.

Valete optime
Iulius S. Crassus
Team Russata.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Julilla Sempronia Magna"
<julilla@...> wrote:

> The crowd was on its feet, cheering deliriously as Aprilis crossed

the alba linea for the final time, with Erebus two lengths behind
and Arcula Crepitans.

> Victory
> Dazed, T. Iulius Sabinus Crassus, victor of the Ludi Plebeii,

stepped down from his quadriga at the conclusion of the race, and
ascended the spina, where he received his reward from the hands of
Julilla Sempronia Magna, Plebeian Aedile. "The day is yours,
Russata," she cried and in a lower

> voice added, "and with this purse you can buy hundreds of your

supporters a drink to celebrate, though it is you, I am guessing,
who will be feted many times before this night is over."

>
> RACE RESULTS—Finals
>
> 1st Place Aprilis (Russata)
> 2nd Place Erebus (Russata)
> 3rd Place Arcula Crepitans (Praesina)

Salve Cato amice,

I for one certainly ask the Consuls to add it to our agenda.

Vale,

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnes SPD
>
> "However, it is up the those magistrates who can convene the senate
to
> bring the matter to the attention of the senate...[a]s Consul I will
> take your suggestion into due consideration..."
>
> Rats. It seems that somehow the question of my cognomen fell
through
> the cracks...
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>

Avete Omnes;

The final tallies are in the hands of the Custodes.

My colleague L Rutilius Minervalis has been a blessing in our work.

I was unaware until a couple of days ago that F Apulus Caeser was in
hospital; may the Holy Ones speed his recovery.

All in all, I think we got the count done as quickly as life allowed.

Two things, which would speed the count in future; disabling a valid
voter code once it has been used to cast a ballot in each Committee
for a particular election and locking out invalid voter codes from
accessing the Cista at all. This second would give a voter immediate
feedback and, perhaps, prompt them to double check their code.

I know there must be a valid test code for the webmaster to assure the
functionality of each ballot. I suggest a permanant assignment of
ZZZ000 to this purpose.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Diribitor

Some of you people are like little children 'women who are more popular than she is'? 'Take her offer of Concordia and shove it up her ass'? Is this an elementary school playground?

Hey, thats the best way to get along and make this a peaceful place where people can have civil discussions and work for a common goal and will want to stay. You say Maior wears her bitchiness like a badge of honor yet you seem rather proud of the garbage coming forth from yourself as well....You say its the NYC in you but last I looked everyone in NYC isnt completely lacking in class so I wouldnt place the blame on the good people of NYC for making you the way you are. Good thing we have you to say out loud what we all think eh? Just being truthful eh?  God help me if I ever think like you. It seemed to me there was progress in calming the moronic drama that stains this list and of course instead we get your lovely missive telling someone to shove it up her ass…glad you could lend a hand a help us all out there.

And the fact that SOME children use “ass” and “bitch” has no bearing in any way as to what a list such as this should deem acceptable…it is completely irrelevant. Maybe we should use those words in text books as well since they use it anyway right? Hey, maybe you can come over and teach my kids all their first smut…give them a head start…

Sometimes I wish this was a forum instead of a list. On forums you can just hit a button and ignore those people who offer nothing but stupidity and drama. Is it that you people donÂ’t have enough drama in real life so you choose to create it here? This crap makes me rethink my membership here and question if anything good can truly come from such a group of bickering, abrasive, infants. I laugh to think that when I first joined I was expecting to feel intimidated by what I expected to be the great knowledge of scholars here but from day one I feel like a teacher in a class full of children trying to talk sense to a bunch of bickering trolls. These are my last words here, I wont leave this group in the hopes that I might improve my Latin but I can honestly say that 80% of what I get in my e-mail from this main list everyday is just pure garbage.

Appius Claudius Drusus

> > Salve Scholastica,
> >
> > Don't pay any attention to anything this Maior says. It seems that her
> > favorite targets are women who are more popular than she is. And you are
> > and
> > much more intelligent and kinder as well. Take her offer of Concordia and
> > shove it up her ass ha ha!!*
> >
> > Anyway, her offers of Concordia are always followed up by another verbal
> > attack-- she has a nasty character and just can't help showing it. Unlike
> > me
> > that is, who is always smiling smiling and happy hee hee!
> >
> > Oh yeah, Scholastica is in no way responsible for my words above. No doubt
> >
> > she'll be horrified by this email. She is a lady, unlike me who has a
> > definite un-ladylike street girl from NYC streak.... And unlike Maior who
> > wears her bitchiness like a batch of honour. So if anyone wants to scream
> > at
> > me, feel free, but don't expect me to worry about it much. I am just
> > saying
> > out loud what most people think about Maior! Someone has to!
> >
> > Worried about the minors on this list? Minors use "ass" and "bitch" and
> > much worse-- as much as we "adults".
> >
> > Valete,
> > Diana Octavia
> >
> > *That is the Brooklyn girl talking now--sorry. Every once in awhile she is
> >
> > inspired to show her face, even after 14 years of living in Europe.
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>

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