Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.

I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
fifth Tribune's position. The recent unnecessary excitement on the
ML indicates that Nova Roma needs Tribunes who can act with restraint
and moderation in the face of problems, both large and small.

No one should be elected who would encourage the Tribunes to take
illegal actions in violation of the Lex Vedia de Tribunis &
Constitution or would incite the Plebs to violate the sancrosanctitas
of the Tribunes. Regardless of prior qualification or experience,
Nova Roma doesn't need hot heads and rabble rousers as Tribunes.

The Office of Tribune is the most powerful elected magistracy in Nova
Roma and it calls for someone who is willing to work carefully to
resolve problems before invoking the powerful tool of Intercessio.

Surely there are other candidates available who can rise to this
occasion. Step forward, fellow Plebeians, and put on the toga
candida.

Valete.

Agricola Aureliano Omnibusque SPD,

On the other hand, she is experienced, having held the office last
year. If I recall correctly she played an important part in seeing
that we even had magistrates in place for the start of this year.

She created a podcast and has made contributions to the wiki, among
other things.

I can see where some might not like her style, but she also has
experience, ability, energy and a willingness to serve, qualities in
short supply.

More than this it would not be proper for a patrician to say in this
matter.

optime vale, et valete, Quirites, in pace deorum




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
wrote:

>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.
>
> I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
> fifth Tribune's position.

[snip]

Salve Galerius,

I couldn't agree more. She may have indeed been a Tribune before, but was
pretty incompetent. When confronted with it, she would answer "I do this for
NR, I do that for NR. What are you doing for NR?". So no one could even
question her actions or point out her mistakes. Don't hold office unless
you can do the job properly. and Maoira for one did not do the job as
Tribune properly at all.
Vale,
Diana

Salvete Omnes,

Without seeking to discuss merits of the individuals, does really
allow the spirit of the NR institutions the same person to held
several mandates as Tribune ?

Valete,

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Diribitor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
wrote:

>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.
>
> I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
> fifth Tribune's position. The recent unnecessary excitement on the
> ML indicates that Nova Roma needs Tribunes who can act with restraint
> and moderation in the face of problems, both large and small.
>
> No one should be elected who would encourage the Tribunes to take
> illegal actions in violation of the Lex Vedia de Tribunis &
> Constitution or would incite the Plebs to violate the sancrosanctitas
> of the Tribunes. Regardless of prior qualification or experience,
> Nova Roma doesn't need hot heads and rabble rousers as Tribunes.
>
> The Office of Tribune is the most powerful elected magistracy in Nova
> Roma and it calls for someone who is willing to work carefully to
> resolve problems before invoking the powerful tool of Intercessio.
>
> Surely there are other candidates available who can rise to this
> occasion. Step forward, fellow Plebeians, and put on the toga
> candida.
>
> Valete.
>

Agricola Minervali sal

Your question appears here regualarly in various forms. In order to
save time, I'll summarize.

Those opposed to whatever the topic is will point out that it is
completely un-Roman and out of keeping with the purpose of
understanding and reconstruction ancient Roman ways.

Those who support whatever the topic is will mention that there is
nothing in our laws against it and furthermore that practical
considerations make it a necessity.

The second view usually wins out. The letter of the law speaks more
loudly than the spirit of Romanitas. As a result, things are often
done because they are legal, even though they may not be Roman.

I hope this has been helpful.

Optime vale in pace deorum!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Rutilius Minervalis"
<pjtuloup@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Without seeking to discuss merits of the individuals, does really
> allow the spirit of the NR institutions the same person to held
> several mandates as Tribune ?
>
> Valete,
>
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> Diribitor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.
> >
> > I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
> > fifth Tribune's position. The recent unnecessary excitement on the
> > ML indicates that Nova Roma needs Tribunes who can act with restraint
> > and moderation in the face of problems, both large and small.
> >
> > No one should be elected who would encourage the Tribunes to take
> > illegal actions in violation of the Lex Vedia de Tribunis &
> > Constitution or would incite the Plebs to violate the sancrosanctitas
> > of the Tribunes. Regardless of prior qualification or experience,
> > Nova Roma doesn't need hot heads and rabble rousers as Tribunes.
> >
> > The Office of Tribune is the most powerful elected magistracy in Nova
> > Roma and it calls for someone who is willing to work carefully to
> > resolve problems before invoking the powerful tool of Intercessio.
> >
> > Surely there are other candidates available who can rise to this
> > occasion. Step forward, fellow Plebeians, and put on the toga
> > candida.
> >
> > Valete.
> >
>

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana omnibus civibus Novae Romae SPD.

I have recently encountered a Latin version of
"Jingle Bells" called "Carmen Circense."

For copyright reasons, those lyrics cannot be included
here. However, I have prepared an English version on the
theme of the Ludi Circensis which is my original work, and
I offer it here. I haven't rhymed this, but gave priority
to the rhythm of this little "jingle".

In memory of all the Ludi of 2759, and in anticipation
of Saturnalia, enjoy!

NOTE 1: To those of you who remember that Domus Aurelia
Falco runs chariots for Factio Praesina, I claim innocence.
I kept the same Factio references as in the Latin original.

NOTE 2: Spandex the Vandal and his fearsome team of
Velociraptor will return in the New Year. Much has
happened in the meantime. Look for a possible new chariot
guided by the hands of Spandex's adopted son, working with
the younger Sarmatian horses.

Gratias ago to all the officials who brought the Ludi Plebeii
to (virtual) reality and happy conclusion.

Valete bene in pace Deorum
C. Aurelia Falco Silvana

WHAT A JOY THE RACECOURSE IS!
(to be sung to the tune of "Jingle Bells")

1.
From the Consul's hand
the starting cloth does fall,
Eager with his chariot
The horse comes bursting forth.
Behind us hear the clash
Of the starting gates
What a joy the racecourse is!
How drivers do rejoice!

Chorus (sing twice)

Jingle, jingle, all the way
Harness trappings ring—
Drivers love to hear the sound
As they race along!

2.
There the marker stands;
Make the horses turn!
Who doesn't round the mark
Will surely break his wheels;
The horses they collide,
Heaven hears the roar;
Chariots tangled overturn
And blood flows everywhere.

chorus

3.
While I wield the whip,
Bending low I cling,
How wild the shouts they are
From our faction's seats!
I'll wear the laurel wreath;
rejoice at coming first
and with our victories
Great wealth will come my way!

chorus

4.
Let me always win!
Let no-one pass me by!
Who else is so strong?
Who else drives so well?
Let Red teams bite the dust!
Let Blues a-trembling fall!
Fortune fills my purse, it does
When Green in vict'ry rides.

chorus

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"He had on his side the support of the august and venerable senate,
the sympathy of the people, the protection of the tribunes, and the
remembrance of the absent army. On the other side were pleaded the
unquestioned sovereign power of the Roman people and all the
traditions of military discipline, the Dictator's edict which had ever
been regarded as possessing divine sanction, and the example of
Manlius who had sacrificed his affection for his son to the interests
of the State. Brutus too, urged the Dictator, the founder of Roman
freedom, had done this before in the case of his two children. Now
fathers were indulgent, and aged men, easy-going in matters that do
not touch themselves, were spoiling the young men, teaching them to
despise authority and treating military discipline as of little
importance. He declared his intention of adhering to his purpose, he
would not abate a single jot of the punishment due to the man who had
fought in defiance of his injunctions' while the auspices were
doubtful and the religious sanction withheld. Whether the supreme
authority of the Dictator was to remain unimpaired did not depend on
him; he, L. Papirius, would do nothing to weaken its power. He
sincerely hoped that the tribunes would not use their authority,
itself inviolable, to violate by their interference the sovereignty of
the Roman government, and that the people to whom the appeal had been
made would not extinguish in his case especially Dictator and
Dictatorship alike. "If it did, it will not be L. Papirius but the
tribunes, the corrupt judgment of the people that posterity will
accuse and accuse in vain. When the bond of military discipline has
once been broken no soldier will obey his centurion, no centurion his
military tribune, no military tribune his general, no Master of the
Horse the Dictator. No one will have any reverence or respect for
either men or gods, no observance will be shown to the orders of
commanders or the auspices under which they acted. Without obtaining
leave of absence soldiers will roam at will through friendly or
hostile country; in total disregard of their military oath they will
abandon their standards when and where they chose, they will refuse to
assemble when ordered, they will fight regardless of day or night,
whether the ground were favourable or unfavourable, whether their
commander has given orders or not, keeping no formation, no order.
Military service, instead of being the solemn and sacred thing it is,
will resemble wild and disorderly brigandage. Expose yourselves,
tribunes, to all future ages as the authors of these evils! Make
yourselves personally responsible for the criminal recklessness of Q.
Fabius!" - Livy, History of Rome 8.34


"The great god Triton appeared before them, taking the form of a young
man. He picked up a clod of earth and held it out to them by way of
welcome, saying: `Accept this gift, my friends. Here and now, I have
no better one with which to welcome strangers such as you. But if you
have lost your bearings, like many a traveller in foreign parts, and
wish to cross the Libyan Sea, I will be your guide. My father Poseidon
has taught me all its secrets, and I am the king of this seaboard. You
may have heard of me though you live so far away - Eurypylos, born in
Libya, the country of wild beasts.' Euphemos gladly held his hand out
for the clod." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.1548

"When leaping from the prow where Lake Tritonis pours to the sea,
Euphemos took the gift, token of a host's friendship, from a god
[Triton] in mortal guise ho gave a clod of earth; and from aloft, to
mark the sign, a peal of thunder sounded from Zeus the father, son of
Kronos..." - Pindar, Odes Pythian 4.1

In ancient Greece, today was held in honor of the nymph Kalliste. Her
father the god Triton gave her to the Argonaut Euphemos as a clod of
earth, which during the sea voyage was washed overboard and formed the
island of Kalliste. It is told that when the Argonauts came to Libya
they were driven into the Syrtis, quicksands in Libya, carrying their
ship overland to Lake Tritonis. There was no return for ships, once
they had come far within Syrtis. Since there is no outlet from Lake
Tritonis to the sea, they could do nothing. Then the Argonauts
propitiated the gods with a golden tripod on the shore, and Triton
appeared to them in the form of a youth. Triton showed them the way
out, and presented the Argonaut Euphemus with a clod of earth. Later
Euphemus had a dream. It seemed to him that the clod of earth was
being suckled by milk, and that from it a little woman grew. And this
woman Euphemus desired and embraced in love, although he pitied her as
though she were a maiden whom he fed with his own milk. But then she
comforted him, saying that she was daughter of Triton and Libya, and
exhorting him to restore her to the sea near Anaphe. She then became
the island, which is now called Thera.


Today the Sun enters the zodiacal sign of Sagittarius. Sagittarius
(the archer) is commonly depicted as a centaur drawing a bow.
Sagittarius lies between Scorpius to the west and Capricornus to the
east. Its brighter stars form an easily recognizable teapot shape. In
Greek mythology, Sagittarius was the centaur Chiron, aiming his bow at
the Scorpion.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Pinda4r, Apollonius Rhodius, Kalliste -
(http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Cyrene.html) and
(http://messagenet.com/myths/ppt/Calliste_1.html)

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Dianae Aventinae salutem dicit

Marca Hortensia Maior is not always the astute diplomat we would like her to
be. However, last year on December 30th she was paying attention. The
elections last year were held too late and were a mess. Consul Laenas was
trying to hold a "emergency" session of the senate to declare an Interrex.
Hortensia vetoed this "emergency session" and eventually the custodes from
last year came through at the last minute. This is what the tribunes should
be doing. She is also available and doesn't disappear for long periods of
time as at least one of our tribunes this year has done.

I wonder if our citizens can name off all five tribunes from this year
without looking. Unfortunately, since I am no longer a Plebeian I cannot
vote for tribunes. But if I had a vote I would vote for Hortensia, just as
I would also vote for you, if you were a Plebeian again and ran for tribune.

Vale:

Modianus

On 11/22/06, Diana Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Galerius,
>
> I couldn't agree more. She may have indeed been a Tribune before, but was
> pretty incompetent. When confronted with it, she would answer "I do this
> for
> NR, I do that for NR. What are you doing for NR?". So no one could even
> question her actions or point out her mistakes. Don't hold office unless
> you can do the job properly. and Maoira for one did not do the job as
> Tribune properly at all.
> Vale,
> Diana
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

L. Sextius was tribune ten years in sequence. Lex Villia, after, forbade for
the magistratures, but there was cases of Tribunes been re-elected, like the
Gracchi. So the historians cannot have a definitive answer, seems on Ancient
Rome the rules changed about this sometimes.

What NR fobiddens is ´re-election´. Not holding again the same office on
next year.

But I am always impressed with the good work Hortensia did on the Tribunate.
She has the inner fire and passion that made the ancient tribunes, like
Canuleius, Sextius and the brothers Gracchi. We need tribunes that doens´t
fear to say the truth. Tribunes that uses its sainctatis to defend people,
and are fearless to contest. NR doesn´t need ´white flag´ tribunes that
simply goes and say ´oh, the text allows´. No, Hortensia follows the Seneca
saying:

"What the law allows,
The honour forbides"

(Seneca, the Trojan Women - Agamenon rebutal to Pirro about Polixena´s
sacrifice to Aquiles manes)

We need tribunes that go beyond the simply ´letter of the law´. We need a
comparison between the past and us, and a choosing of the most honourable
way, even if the law isn´t clear about. We need tribunes that makes the
letter of the way turn alive, roman and a source of inspiration for us.

The order of the Republic is duty of the Consules, Praetores, Aediles. The
Tribunes come to contest, to be the devil´s advocate, to be the transforming
strengh of the antitese. The tribunes must burn the eyes on reading and
researching. The tribunes must be watchdogs of the liberty of the Comitias.
The tribunes must be the defenders of the 'live archive' of human
wiseness the Senate is. The tribunes must be the biggest lovers of the
Religio Romana and the right worship of the gods, because their protection
come only of the gods, and they themselves are Sacred bodies. All
magistrates have holy duties on the Republic, since the gods rely on them
the auspices of the State and the official consultation. The tribunes are
even more. The tribunes themselves are the living incarnation of the Religio
Romana following and respect.

Of all services a novorroman can make to this Republic, the tribunate is one
of the most rewarding, and, surely, one of the most beloved and blessed by
the gods.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus


2006/11/22, Lucius Rutilius Minervalis <pjtuloup@...>:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Without seeking to discuss merits of the individuals, does really
> allow the spirit of the NR institutions the same person to held
> several mandates as Tribune ?
>
> Valete,
>
> Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
> Diribitor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Patrick
> D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.
> >
> > I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
> > fifth Tribune's position. The recent unnecessary excitement on the
> > ML indicates that Nova Roma needs Tribunes who can act with restraint
> > and moderation in the face of problems, both large and small.
> >
> > No one should be elected who would encourage the Tribunes to take
> > illegal actions in violation of the Lex Vedia de Tribunis &
> > Constitution or would incite the Plebs to violate the sancrosanctitas
> > of the Tribunes. Regardless of prior qualification or experience,
> > Nova Roma doesn't need hot heads and rabble rousers as Tribunes.
> >
> > The Office of Tribune is the most powerful elected magistracy in Nova
> > Roma and it calls for someone who is willing to work carefully to
> > resolve problems before invoking the powerful tool of Intercessio.
> >
> > Surely there are other candidates available who can rise to this
> > occasion. Step forward, fellow Plebeians, and put on the toga
> > candida.
> >
> > Valete.
> >
>
>
>

--
Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Luci Rutili,

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Without seeking to discuss merits of the individuals, does really
> allow the spirit of the NR institutions the same person to held
> several mandates as Tribune ?

Yes, it's fine, as long as the person doesn't hold the same office for
two years in a row. We have several citizens who've held one office
more than once.

I think that especially in a case like the one we have now, where
insufficient candidates were available to fill all vacancies, it's good
that an experienced person steps forward and offers to serve again.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Ave, Titus Flavius Aquila
Welcome to Nova Roma, and I hope you can stay here for a long time.

Quintus Livius Drusus.

Thomas Vogel <tvogel@...> escribió:
Salvete Romani !

I would like to introduce myself, my Name Titus Flavius Aquila and I live
in
the Provincia Germania. I have started my citizenship ( for a probationary
period
of 90 days) just a few days ago and would like to receive your experiences
as being
a full citizen of Nova Roma and would like to ask for your support and
information
to become a valid gain for the community of Nova Roma.

Vale et
Gratiam Ago
Titus Flavius Aquila

Savle Titus Flavius Aquila

Welcome to Nova Roma

I hope you enjoy you next 40-50 years here.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Here are the results of the CC and the CPT (century count). I was
just provided the century breakdown by the Custodes, and I present it
here. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is "senior Consul," and Gaius
Equitius Cato is "senior Praetor."

Comitia Centuriata results (wins + won ties)

Consules:

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: 17 Centuries (12 + 5)
Lucius Arminius Faustus: 15 Centuries (8 + 7)
Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: 13 Centuries (5 + 8)
Flavius Vedius Germanicus: 1 Century (1 + 0)

Centuries abs: 1
Centuries not voting: 4
Centuries required: 24

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus was elected on the 3rd round and Lucius
Arminius Faustus on the 4th round.

Praetores:

Gaius Equitius Cato: 18 Centuries (11 + 7)
Aula Tullia Scholastica: 16 Centuries (10 + 6)
Titus Julius Sabinus: 14 Centuries (4 + 10)

Centuries abs: -
Centuries not voting: 3
Centuries required: 25

Gaius Equitius Cato was elected on the 2nd round and Aula Tullia
Scholastica on the 3rd round.

Comitia Populi Tributa results (wins + won ties)

1. Aediles Curules
LCC 6 (3+3)
QVC 5 (2+3)
TAM 11 (7+4)
ICCA 13 (5+7)

Tribes abs: 1
Tribes not voting: -
Tribes required: 18

Nobody was elected on the 1st and the 2nd round. ICCA was elected on
the 3rd round. TAM was elected on the 4th round.

2. Questores
GMM 3 (0+3)
QIP 10 (0+10)
GEM 20 (13+7)
QCMPP 2 (0+2)

Tribes abs: -
Tribes not voting: -
Tribes required: 18

GEM was elected on the 1st round. QIP was elected on the 2nd round.
GMM was elected on the 3rd round. QCMPP was elected on the 4th round.

3. Diribitores
MAM 23 (13+10)
TPS 12 (4+7)

Tribes abs: -
Tribes not voting: -
Tribes required: 18

MAM was elected on the 1st round. TPS was elected on the 2nd round.

4. Custodes
GVA 16 (9+7)
PMS 19 (15+4)

Tribes abs: -
Tribes not voting: -
Tribes required: 18

PMS was elected on the 1st round. GVS was elected on the 2nd round.

---

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

Salve Consul,

Thanks for posting this, but I fear it still leaves questions. The method for
determining who comes in second, third, etc... is specifically set out in the
Leges Fabia. There's a process stipulated which involves subsequent rounds of
balloting with substitution of centuries/tribes. I see mention of third and
fourth rounds, so I assume this did happen. I know that when I reported
election results at the end of my consular year I provided the quirites with
the round by round details. I think it would be good to do so in the
interest of governmental transparency.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> writes:

> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> Here are the results of the CC and the CPT (century count). [...]

M.Hortensia quiritibus spd;
I'm very touched to hear these words of support. It's true I
have been a bit fiery, but I can certainly promise to act in a more
temperate way, due to the guide of Consul-elect Faustus, who is a
good friend, a great Roman & always gives me wise advice:)
And good Cordus's legal admonitions. I love Nova Roma and will
do my best for the quirites and the res publica.
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > Without seeking to discuss merits of the individuals, does really
> > allow the spirit of the NR institutions the same person to held
> > several mandates as Tribune ?
>
> Yes, it's fine, as long as the person doesn't hold the same office

for

> two years in a row. We have several citizens who've held one

office

> more than once.
>
> I think that especially in a case like the one we have now, where
> insufficient candidates were available to fill all vacancies, it's

good

> that an experienced person steps forward and offers to serve again.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>

Ex Officio Propraetoris

EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM XLVII (COMPLTENSIS XXII) DE CONVOCATIONE COMITIA PROVINCIALIA

Salvete omnes civibus Hispaniae


De acuerdo con lo estipulado en el Curia Consultum de Electionibus Hispaniae (2002/28) modificado por la Curia Hispanica en Octubre de 2005 mediante el presente Edicto

ANUNCIO:

Que a partir de las 9 horas del d�a 1 y hasta las 24 horas del d�a 10 de Diciembre del presente a�o, se podr�n presentar las candidaturas para ocupar puestos en el Consilium Hispaniae.

Los candidatos podr�n optar a los siguientes cargos:

- Propraetor
- Legatus Internis Rebus
- Legatus Externis Rebus
- Scriba Ad Latinitatem
- Procurator Retis
- Aedilis Arenae
- Scriba ad Conventus Novae Romae
- Praefectus ad Italica Splendens Projectus

No hago menci�n expresa al cargo de Praefectus Militarium ya que para dicho cargo ha sido nombrado, por elecci�n de la Asamblea Legionaria, el ciudadano Marcus Flavius Drusus nombramiento que deber� ser ratificado por el Propraetor entrante.

Adem�s el Propraetor en calidad de Princeps Curiae en funciones deber� hacer p�blico los puestos que deben ser renovados en la Curia Hispanica para cubrirlos mediante otras elecciones.

PLAZOS:

Una vez presentadas las candidaturas, se proceder� a la creaci�n de la lista provisional de candidatos, que desde el 10 al 14 podr� ser corregida si hay alegaciones, que se podr�n presentar hasta ese d�a 14. El 15 se publicar� la lista definitiva de candidatos, y la campa�a electoral, iniciada con la presentaci�n de candidaturas, durar� hasta el d�a 19 como m�ximo.

El 20 empezar�n las votaciones, que durar�n hasta el 31 de Diciembre.

Acabado el plazo, se proclamar�n los resultados y el Propraetor saliente redactar� el correspondiente Edicto aprobando los nuevos cargos antes del 10 de Enero de 2007.

El resultado de estas votaciones se incluir� en el Acta de la Reuni�n Ordinaria de la Provincia.

COMISION ELECTORAL

La comisi�n electoral queda as� compuesta:

Presidente: Marcus Curiatius Complutensis (Propraetor)
Vocales: Fabius Uranicus (Legatus Internis), Aurelius Firmus (Legatus Externis), Minicius Laietanus, Durmius Sisena y Flavius Drusus.


PARTICULARIDADES DE LOS CARGOS A ELEGIR

- PROPRAETOR: De acuerdo con los Estatutos y el Reglamento de la Provincia Hispania el candidato a Propraetor deber� ser ciudadano assidui de Nova Roma y haber pagado la cuota asociativa en 2006.
- LEGATVS INTERNIS REBVS: De acuerdo con los Estatutos y el Reglamento de la Provincia Hispania el candidato a Propraetor deber� ser ciudadano assidui de Nova Roma y haber pagado la cuota asociativa en 2006.
- LEGATVS EXTERNIS REBVS y SCRIBA AD CONVENTVS NOVAE ROMAE: Aunque de acuerdo con el Reglamento estos cargos son susceptibles de ser ocupados por cualquier miembro de la Asociaci�n, que haya pagado las cuotas para 2006, se aconseja que sean ocupados por ciudadanos assidui de Nova Roma, ya que ambos cargos requieren un contacto continuo con la organizaci�n Nova Roma.
- Para el resto de los cargos a ocupar basta con haber pagado la cuota asociativa en 2006.
- Los candidatos deber�n ser aprobados por la Comisi�n Electoral si cumplen todos los requisitos expuestos.

CELEBRACION DE LAS ELECCIONES

De acuerdo con los Estatutos constitutivos de Provincia Hispania la presentaci�n de candidaturas, la campa�a electoral y el anuncio de los resultados, as� como cualquier comunicado referente a estos Comitia se har� dentro del marco del Foro de Internet de la Provincia sito en http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRHispania/, aunque se har�n anuncios en las Listas de Correos de la Legio VIIII Hispana, del Oppidum Compluti, y Nova Roma.

Los votantes, para ejercer su derecho al voto, deber�n requerir al Legatus Internis Rebus un c�gigo de votante que deber� ser facilitado, una vez se haya comprobado la situaci�n de los solicitantes del c�digo. No ser� valido ning�n voto que no incluya el c�digo de votante. Los votos ser�n emitidos mediante correo electr�nico dirigidos a la cuenta de correo habilitada para tal efecto comitia@... a la que tendr�n acceso los miembros de la Comisi�n Electoral.

Este Edicto entra en vigor inmediatamente.

Datum sub mano mea

Ante diem X Kal Decembras MMDCCLIX
C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos

M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIA
SCRIBA CENSORIS G�E�M
CAPVT OFF APPROBATIONVM
ACC COS P�M�S
NOVA ROMA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus wrote:

> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> I've just met the word SCA. What does this abbreviation mean?

"Society for Creative Anachronism". It's an historical reenactment group
"reconstructing the Middle Ages as they should have been". (Id est,
without plagues, a downtrodden lower class, and an all-powerful church).
I believe they are about 25,000 strong, several times the size of Nova
Roma. As the explanation indicates, they stress the European Medieval
period, although there are also Vikings, Japanese and Chinese, and even
American Indians.

-- Publius Livius Triarius
Mandarin Vuong Manh, in the SCA

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Equitio Marino salutem dicit

I agree. As the Custodes take it upon themselves to "reveal" the mystery of
the coin toss so to speak I report the results here. What I have provided
is what has been provided to me, I await a more detailed breakdown and once
I receive it I will report it.

Vale:

Modianus

On 11/22/06, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> Thanks for posting this, but I fear it still leaves questions. The method
> for
> determining who comes in second, third, etc... is specifically set out in
> the
> Leges Fabia. There's a process stipulated which involves subsequent rounds
> of
> balloting with substitution of centuries/tribes. I see mention of third
> and
> fourth rounds, so I assume this did happen. I know that when I reported
> election results at the end of my consular year I provided the quirites
> with
> the round by round details. I think it would be good to do so in the
> interest of governmental transparency.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN�EQVIT�MARINVS
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Consul,

"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> writes:

> [...] I await a more detailed breakdown and once
> I receive it I will report it.

Thank you, I look forward to reading it.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus: Quiritibus: salutem dicit:

Salvete, Quirites!

I thought many times about the number of our Tribunes of the Plebs. I found it amusing why we have 5 Tribunes while in the ancient Rome thier number was ever an even number, 2, 4... to 10.

The problem is arisen now again when I sow that we didn't have ebough candidates to the Tribunatus.

On the groun of all I have said, I think that we have to reduce the number of the Tribunes of the Plebs.

1) According to the ancient practice their number must be an even number, so 5 is not OK. This would be enough in itself as an argument to me that we have to change the number of the Tribunes. But there are other serious agruments in my view.

2) We have a State with a giant head and with a little body. In a State, where are 200 active (taxpayer) citizens it's useless to have 5 Tribunes. Think please, that in Rome during the 5th-4th centuries when it had over 100 000 citizens there were only 2 Tribunes! We have already too many magistrates as compared to the number of the citizens. We are a 9 years old State. When the Old Republic had 9 years, is had only two magisterates: the 2 consuls! It's very natural: few officers - for a little State. When the Tribunate was established their number was 2. As I can recall, this number was the same through 100 years. Why do we need 5 then?

3) It could simplify the elections too. We usually suffer from the lack of the candidates for this office. This problem also would be solved this way. In a free republic it's very important to have the candidates contested so that the people can choose the best ones. In that election there were no contest for the Tribunate. Anybody who said that he wants to be Tribune of the Plebs has been elected. It's not a good way: but it's natural consequence from the nature of our communiry - we are a little State where are few candidates. Or do we want that almost all of our citizens hold office? Do we want a State where everybody is a magistrate or an ex-magistrate?

4) It would simplify the public decisions and the administration too. Now our Curule magistrates depend on the intercessio of 5 people. If a consul makes a decision to govern the State, his action can be vetoed by 5 Tribunes. In a so little community it is very useless, obstructes the process of the administration in a measure which is far above necessity. We aren't a real State, but we have a so giant protective power of the Plebs as if we were a more real State than Rome itself was in the 5th-4th centuries BC when Rome had thousends of times more citizens and bigger territory than we have.

Conclusions:

So, there are 4 serious reasons at least to reduce the number of the Tribuni Plebis:

1) to have an even number for the historical authenticity;
2) to have a convenient number of magistrates as compared to the size of NR;
3) to have enough candidates and make the elections viable and simplier;
4) to have the administration easier and more adequate to the nature of our organization:

So I think that 4 Tribunes would be quite enough for the needs of NR given by the present feature of our association, moreover, I do think that 2 Tribunes would be better, far better and far enough.

Fellow citizens, Quirites, I humbly invite you to think about these conceptions and to ponder my arguments on the number of the Tribuni Plebis.

Avete atque valete!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Luci Armini Fauste et omnes,

I just want to point out the famous words of Pilate, "What is truth?"
Throughout history one person's truth is another person's falsehood.
Often in these offices you try to do what you think is right, seek
advice when you have doubts, then make any of the decisions that are
necessary. In doing so many citizens are happy with you whilst
others are most displeased or frustrated. If you try to please
everyone (which you shouldn't do) then you please no one.
Tribunes must certainly go to bat for the plebs and jump in on laws
and edictums they reason to be unfair or bad but at the same time,
part of their oath is to uphold the constitution and religion even
when things may backfire at times or boomerang back in your face.
As a macro analogy, it has been ruled a woman has a right over her
own body and may terminate a pregnancy if desired. The Fetus has no
human rights - done! Now some East Asians would rather have boys
than girls so off they go for ultrasound and terminate the pregnancy
if the fetus is female, if a woman is assaulted an she loses the
baby inside it is not murder since a fetus has no human rights. Now
many groups are howling over these situations but you cannot have
your cake and eat it too. This boomerang effect can happen with many
other laws as well.


When holding any of these offices, one must be prepared to accept
that there will be times when you upset the some populus, your own
friends and colleagues and in short not holding a title of Mr. or
Miss Congeniality. Alas all our new magistrates will certainly find
this out in six weeks.

Regards,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucius Arminius Faustus"
<lafaustus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> L. Sextius was tribune ten years in sequence. Lex Villia, after,

forbade for

> the magistratures, but there was cases of Tribunes been re-

elected, like the

> Gracchi. So the historians cannot have a definitive answer, seems

on Ancient

> Rome the rules changed about this sometimes.
>
> What NR fobiddens is ´re-election´. Not holding again the same

office on

> next year.
>
> But I am always impressed with the good work Hortensia did on the

Tribunate.

> She has the inner fire and passion that made the ancient tribunes,

like

> Canuleius, Sextius and the brothers Gracchi. We need tribunes that

doens´t

> fear to say the truth. Tribunes that uses its sainctatis to defend

people,

> and are fearless to contest. NR doesn´t need ´white flag´ tribunes

that

> simply goes and say ´oh, the text allows´. No, Hortensia follows

the Seneca

> saying:
>
> "What the law allows,
> The honour forbides"
>
> (Seneca, the Trojan Women - Agamenon rebutal to Pirro about

Polixena´s

> sacrifice to Aquiles manes)
>
> We need tribunes that go beyond the simply ´letter of the law´. We

need a

> comparison between the past and us, and a choosing of the most

honourable

> way, even if the law isn´t clear about. We need tribunes that

makes the

> letter of the way turn alive, roman and a source of inspiration

for us.

>
> The order of the Republic is duty of the Consules, Praetores,

Aediles. The

> Tribunes come to contest, to be the devil´s advocate, to be the

transforming

> strengh of the antitese. The tribunes must burn the eyes on

reading and

> researching. The tribunes must be watchdogs of the liberty of the

Comitias.

> The tribunes must be the defenders of the 'live archive' of human
> wiseness the Senate is. The tribunes must be the biggest lovers of

the

> Religio Romana and the right worship of the gods, because their

protection

> come only of the gods, and they themselves are Sacred bodies. All
> magistrates have holy duties on the Republic, since the gods rely

on them

> the auspices of the State and the official consultation. The

tribunes are

> even more. The tribunes themselves are the living incarnation of

the Religio

> Romana following and respect.
>
> Of all services a novorroman can make to this Republic, the

tribunate is one

> of the most rewarding, and, surely, one of the most beloved and

blessed by

> the gods.
>
> Valete bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
>
>

P. Memmius Albucius S. Lucilio Tutori s.d.


The expression must be "dominum/proprietas". This is one of the three
couples that helped ancient, medieval and classical lawyers (Ockham,
Grotius, Hobbes, Potier..) get fun with the boring relation between
men and things. The other couples were dominium/potestas and
dominium/auctoritas.

The words "dominium" and "proprietas" are the roman law concepts
which gave birth to what we call today "property".

Until the late empire, Rome knew principally the "dominium"
(dominus 's right). To say things very quickly, only citizens
("quirites") could have "dominium" on things. At the late empire
appeared the concept of "proprietas", mainly because it was necessary
to allow several forms of properties coexist.

At medieval and classical times, the word "proprietas" allowed
lawyers to set the existence of an *exclusive*, a *proper* right (it
belongs just to X, not to Y or Z).

This concept has thus entered the law of modern western countries.
People often think that this concept was *the* roman one.

It is not ; it is a re-reading of roman law.

So your expression, dear Lucilius, must be read as an opposition of
concepts, not as an group of nouns which has no grammatical meaning
in latin, as has well written you Pr des. A. Tullia Scholastica.

Vale,


P. Memmius Albucius






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "sextus_lucilius_tutor"
<phorus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve !!!
>
> Can me anybody help ? Please, what means "Dominium Proprietas" ?
>
> Thank you
>
> Vale
>
> SLT
>

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus quaestor: Quiritibus: salutem:

Salvete, Quirites, iterum!

The letter I have just written about the number of the Tribuni Plebis deals with the very same question that is arisen to me regarding the number of the Quaestores.

We have now 8 Quaestors assigned to the higher magistrates: 2 for the 2 Consuls, 2 for the 2 Praetors, 2 to the Aediles Curules and 2 to the Aediles Plebis.

In my opinion both their number and their assignation is wrong and useless, and I say it as a current Praetorial Quaestor.

1) Historical authenticity: in the Old Republic there were 2 Quaetors at first who were resbonsible for the treasury. Then 2 additional Quaestors were established assigned to each Consul. So there were then 4. When Italy has been occupied 4 recent Quaestors were created for the administration of some far territory and important harbours like Ostia and Puteoli. There were then 8 -- like we have now. Finally other Quaestors were established to help those additional Praetors who had to govern the new territories outside Italy. So in the Roman republican system only Consuls and provincial Praetors had Quaestors aside from the 2 Quaestors dealing with the treasury. Aediles and Urban Praetors had never Quaestors. In our Nova Roman system Aediles and Urban Praetors also have Quaestors: it's against historical authenticity and also very useless and unnecessary. I suggest we have to study the ancient system and accommodate our system to the ancient one.

2) Problems in the election: as I have written about the Tribunes, we often suffer from the lack of the candidates for the Quaestura, too. It's logical and follows from the nature and size of our organization. See every argument what I've written about the Tribunes from the electoral point of view.

3) Too many magistrates: little State -- few magistrates. This would be the normal system. Why do we need 8 Quaestors? I, as Praetorial Quaestor, have nothing to do more than a Scribe of the Praetor. It seems to me that aside from the Consular Quaestors there is no need for Quaestors at all. This is (to say with hyperbolism) a fictive position and gives the impression of a roleplaying game. We have to give more and serious duties to the Quaestors and to reduce their number. Reducing their number they aslo will have more duties: for example, if we have 2 Treasury Quaestors that would be enough both for the Consuls and for the Aediles. Praetors don't need Quaestors at all. They have already Scribes who help them in modarating the ML. Two Consular Quaetors could lead the Office of the Consuls, helping them in the goverment.
These 4 Quaestors (2 for treasury and 2 for the Consuls) would be far enough as comparised to the needs of the present nature of our Republic.

Conclusions:

We don't need 8 Quaestors, or if need, not according to our present system and practice. Presently, I think 4 Quaestors would be enough. If we would create provincial Praetors and we would assign one Quaestor to each of them, or we would place some Quaestors to controll or supervise certain territories like Quaestor of Ostia or of Puteoli in the ancient republic - then I would say that we have to create even more Quaestors, and let 10 or 12 Quaestors be. But in our current system we don't even need 8.

I invite again my fellow citizens to think about this question and study the ancient system of the Quaestorship and, if we find out a new way to employ our 8 Quaestors or invent real and serious tasks for even more Quaestors, then I will say let us elect those 8 or even more Quaestors.


Valete volentibus propitiis diis immortalibus!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
-------------------------------
Propraetor Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis C. Fabii Buteonis
Scriba Censoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F. Galerius Aurelianus Propraetor Austrorientalis S.P.D.

I need to know who else may be coming to join us on our trip to
Atlanta on December 2-3 for a dinner party and a Sunday trip to the
Fernbank Museum for the Roman exhibit. This request is just a follow-
up to the earlier poll to get an idea of who and how many are going.

The Nashville & Lebanon, TN groups (Metellus, Violentilla, Mania,
and myself plus family) will be leaving Lebanon by no later than
noon on Saturday, Dec. 2. We will arrive in Ackworth, GA by no
later than 4:30 p.m. (EST) and make contact with Ap. Galerius
Aurelianus and any other citizens from Regio Georgia.
Dinner will be held at Fusco's Trattoria about 6:00 p.m. followed by
a long commissatio at the restaurant.

Sunday, Dec. 3, is for late rising, brunch, and then off to the
Fernbank Museum by opening at 12:00 p.m. Reservations can be made
on an individual basis to get your tickets. There will also be
displays by Roman military and gladitorial groups. See attached
notice.

Georgia Regio Citizens--We Could Still Use Crash Space if anyone can
offer it. Please contact me with your information; the number you
can accomodate, smoking preferences, number of cats or dogs, etc.
Some citizens can afford hotel rooms but some cannot. I would
consider it a great personal favor if anyone can step up to the
plate on this one.

The Praefect Georgia Regio is Appius Galerius Aurelianus. He is
working on coordinating a restaurant for dinner Saturday night that
can deal with ten or more Roman in full regalia. If you would like
to help with this event, please contact him.

This is another wonderful opportunity to meet your citizens here in
the province and make some contacts with the military and
gladiatorial reenactment community.

I look forward to your responses & to see you there.

Valete.

================================================

CELEBRATING ANCIENT EMPIRES
Annual Family Holiday Event
Sunday, December 3, noon to 5 p.m.

Ring in the holiday season with a mix of traditional holiday and
Roman-themed activities and performances, inspired by the special
exhibition, Imperial Rome. Members receive FREE Museum admission and
will save an additional $1 off the already-reduced member rate
during this event only! Click here to join today!

Scheduled Events*
Holiday Face Painting
Noon to 4:30 p.m., Great Hall
(lines close at 4:30 p.m.)

Appearances by Legio XI Claudia Pia Fideli
Noon to 5 p.m., Museum-wide

Ornament Station
Noon to 5 p.m., Great Hall

Hands-on Crafts
Noon to 5 p.m., Upper Level Conference Rooms

Holiday Tales Story Telling
12:15 p.m., 1:15 p.m., 2:15 p.m., 3:15 p.m., 4:15 p.m., Upper Level

Roman and Greek Myths Story Telling
12:45 p.m., 1:45 p.m., 2:45 p.m., 3:45 p.m., 4:45 p.m., Upper Level

Strolling Santa Claus
1 p.m. to 3 p.m., Museum-wide

Greece: Secrets of the Past
1 p.m., 3 p.m., 5 p.m., in the IMAX® Theatre (separate ticket
required)

The Living Labyrinth, by Barry Stewart Mann
1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m., Auditorium (limited seating)

Gladiator Bouts Featuring The Ludus Gladiatorum Australis
2 p.m. to 3 p.m., (location TBD)

Atlanta Suzuki Strings orchestra
2 p.m. to 4 p.m., Upper Level

Appearances by Maximus the Lion, The Gwinnett Gladiators Mascot
2 p.m. to 4 p.m., Museum-wide

Celebrating Ancient Empires activities (except IMAX® admission) are
included with Museum admission. Admission and activities are free
for Museum members. Museum admission is $12 for adults, $11 for
students and seniors, and $10 for children ages 12 and under. For
tickets, call 404.929.6400.

*All events subject to change without notice.

Aurelianus Agricola sal.

Regardless of the past services a candidate has made to Nova Roma,
one should examine their recent behaviors as well. Boundless energy
and a willingness to do a job does not, in my opinion, balance out
poor control and a willingness to incite citizens to break the rules
or abuse sitting magistrates without provocation. Nor would I want
a tribune who would encourage other tribunes to break the terms of
the Lex Vedia de Tribunis rather than to help resolve an issue
quietly and with creating an uproar.
Remember that the Gracchi brothers were just as much to blame for
the crumbling of the Old Republic as Marius, Sulla, and Caesar were
to blame.

Vale.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> Agricola Aureliano Omnibusque SPD,
>
> On the other hand, she is experienced, having held the office last
> year. If I recall correctly she played an important part in seeing
> that we even had magistrates in place for the start of this year.
>
> She created a podcast and has made contributions to the wiki, among
> other things.
>
> I can see where some might not like her style, but she also has
> experience, ability, energy and a willingness to serve, qualities

in

> short supply.
>
> More than this it would not be proper for a patrician to say in

this

> matter.
>
> optime vale, et valete, Quirites, in pace deorum
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus SPD.
> >
> > I call upon the Quirites to put forward other candidates for the
> > fifth Tribune's position.
>
> [snip]
>

Salve,

Thank you to all for explanation.

Vale

SLT

Salvete omnes,

That is true: we have many magistrates for few citizens.

But it should be considered that, unfortunately, for various reasons,
some of our magistrates disappear before the end of their mandate;
fortunately, their number compensates the possible withdrawals (for
example, we were only two diribitores to count the votes in the last
elections...).

I think that as long as our state will be virtual, as long as our
magistrates have to lead two lifes simultenaously (one in NR, one in
the macroworld), this instability will continue.

I deeply regret at the same time the lack of candidates and not to
have been able to be candidate myself (given my current occupations,
it was absolutely impossible). But I will make utmost to be candidate
next year.

Avete,

Lucius Rutilius Minervalis
Diribitor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus: Quiritibus: salutem dicit:
>
> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> [...]

Cato Cn. Cirnelio Lentulo sal.

I think there is an ostensibly practical reason for having a quaestor
assigned to each magistrate: they serve as sort of a "head secretary"
for their respective offices. This is, of course, not absolutely
necessary as each magistrate can appoint scribae and/or accensi for
such duties.

According to Smith's Dictionary, the following definitions apply:

ACCENSI: Public officers who attended on several of the Roman
magistrates. They summoned the people to the assemblies, and those who
had lawsuits to court; they preserved order in the assemblies and the
courts, and proclaimed the time of the day when it was the third hour,
the sixth hour, and the ninth hour. Accensi also attended on the
governors of provinces and were commonly freedmen of the magistrate on
whom they attended.

SCRIBAE: The scribae at Rome were public notaries or clerks, in the
pay of the state. They were chiefly employed in making up the public
accounts, copying out laws, and recording the proceedings of the
different functionaries of the state. The phrase scriptum facere was
used to denote their occupation. They were assigned by lot to
different magistrates, whence they were named quaestorii, aedilicii,
or praetorii, from the officers of state to whom they were attached.


Interesting to note that both were "public" offices, that accensi were
not used only by the consuls, as they are in our republic, and that
scribae were assigned rather than appointed, as they are in our Republic.


One way to take hold of the quaestorship is, as has been suggested on
numerous occasions by numerous citizens, to *mandate* the quaestorship
as the first rung on any climb up the cursus honorum.

vale bene,

Cato

Salve Cato

"one way to take hold of the Quaestorship is, as has been suggested on
numerous occasions by numerous citizens, to *mandate* the Quaestorship
as the first rung on any climb up the Cursus Honorum."

Which is exactly what I intend to do if give the chance this coming year.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: gequitiuscato<mailto:mlcinnyc@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De octo (8) quaestoribus


Cato Cn. Cirnelio Lentulo sal.

I think there is an ostensibly practical reason for having a quaestor
assigned to each magistrate: they serve as sort of a "head secretary"
for their respective offices. This is, of course, not absolutely
necessary as each magistrate can appoint scribae and/or accensi for
such duties.

According to Smith's Dictionary, the following definitions apply:

ACCENSI: Public officers who attended on several of the Roman
magistrates. They summoned the people to the assemblies, and those who
had lawsuits to court; they preserved order in the assemblies and the
courts, and proclaimed the time of the day when it was the third hour,
the sixth hour, and the ninth hour. Accensi also attended on the
governors of provinces and were commonly freedmen of the magistrate on
whom they attended.

SCRIBAE: The scribae at Rome were public notaries or clerks, in the
pay of the state. They were chiefly employed in making up the public
accounts, copying out laws, and recording the proceedings of the
different functionaries of the state. The phrase scriptum facere was
used to denote their occupation. They were assigned by lot to
different magistrates, whence they were named quaestorii, aedilicii,
or praetorii, from the officers of state to whom they were attached.

Interesting to note that both were "public" offices, that accensi were
not used only by the consuls, as they are in our republic, and that
scribae were assigned rather than appointed, as they are in our Republic.

One way to take hold of the quaestorship is, as has been suggested on
numerous occasions by numerous citizens, to *mandate* the quaestorship
as the first rung on any climb up the cursus honorum.

vale bene,

Cato





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Romans

As today is Thanksgiving in the USA I will be taking a few days off to visit with family and friends.

Best wishes, health and happiness to all Nova Romans, of all faiths and traditions.


O Lord, with humble hearts we pray
Thy blessing this Thanksgiving Day
And ask that at table place,
Where grateful folk say words of grace,
That Thou will come to share the yield
Thy bounty gave to farm and field.
We pray thy love will bless, O Lord,
Each hearth, each home, each festive board;
And that Thy peace will come to stay
Where candles glow, Thanksgiving Day.

A Thanksgiving Day prayer, by Brian F. King,

Pax

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, excelent quaestor Lentule,

I understand you. I have hold the quaestorship as well. Your concerns about
inactivity are really significant.

Well, I just wondering about the subject:

Nothing on NR is carved on stone. The magistrates are free to propose
changes. On this case, to change there is needed to pass a law in the
Comitia Centuriata and on the Senate (with 2/3 approval) by a magistrate
capable to call this Comitia and the Senate.

The problem may be the political tactics. There is some concerns on the
Republic about ´infinite loop´ of reforms. Such reforms are hard to pass on
the Senate, and the Comitia is becoming more rigorous each year.

On Ancient, we had 20 quaes, 8 pr, 2 con. (I like to put the reference on
the Second Punic War)

We have 13 quaes/trib, 6 pr/aed, 2 con (on NR, since the propraetores are
appointed, not elected, the aediles make the ´intermediate step´ as well)

Whatever be the cursus, we just be careful to have always a pyramid
´pattern´. And, with the disengagement of the praetorship to Senatorial
Status (by Lex Popilia), there may be more ´flexibility´ to change the
praetores without ´expanding´ the Senate.

Just wondering about, quirites. Discussing we may discover more about
ourselves and our mission.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius

2006/11/22, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus cn_corn_lent@...:

>
>
>
>

--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Romani,


I support Cornelius Lentulus with his approach ! We do not want to raise
the impression of a roleplaying game. Magistrates where there is a need,
otherwise we should reduce the numbers and give them real magistrate
duties and power.Lean Magistrate.

Valete
Titus Julianus Aquila




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IX Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The tribunes were dismayed and felt more anxiety now about their own
position than about the man who had sought their protection. They were
relieved from their heavy responsibility by the action of the people;
the whole Assembly appealed to the Dictator and besought him with
earnest entreaties that he would for their sakes forego inflicting
punishment on the Master of the Horse. When the tribunes saw the turn
matters had taken they added their entreaties also, and implored the
Dictator to make allowance for human frailty and to pardon Q. Fabius
for an error natural to youth, for he had already suffered punishment
enough. And now the youth himself, and even his father, abandoning all
further contention, fell on their knees and sought to turn aside the
Dictator's anger. At last, when silence was restored, the Dictator
spoke. "This, Quirites," he said, "is as it should be. Military
discipline has conquered, the supreme authority of government has
prevailed; it was a question whether either would survive this day's
proceedings. Q. Fabius is not acquitted of guilt in having fought
against his commander's orders, but though condemned as guilty he is
restored as a free gift to the people of Rome, to the authority of the
tribunes, who protected him not by exercising their legal powers but
by their intercession. Live, Q. Fabius; happier now in the unanimous
desire of your fellow-citizens to defend you than in the hour of
exultation after your victory! Live, though you dared to do what even
your father, had he been in the place of Papirius, could not have
pardoned! As for me, you shall be restored to favour whenever you
please. But to the Roman people to whom you owe your life you can make
no better return than to show that you have this day learnt the lesson
of submission to lawful commands in peace and in war." After
announcing that he would no longer detain the Master of the Horse he
left the rostra. The joyful senate, the still more joyful people,
flocked round the Dictator and the Master of the Horse, and
congratulated them on the result and then escorted them to their
homes. It was felt that military authority had been strengthened no
less by the peril in which Q. Fabius had been placed than by the
terrible punishment of young Manlius. It so happened that on each
occasion on which the Dictator was absent from the army, the Samnites
showed increased activity. M. Valerius, however, the second in
command, who was in charge of the camp, had the example of Q. Fabius
before his eyes and dreaded the stern Dictator's anger more than an
attack from the enemy. A foraging party were ambushed and cut to
pieces, and it was commonly believed that they could have been
relieved from the camp had not the commanding officer been deterred by
the peremptory orders he had received. This incident still further
embittered the feelings of the soldiers who were already incensed
against the Dictator owing to his implacable attitude towards Fabius
and then to his having pardoned him at the request of the people after
having refused to do so on their intercession." - Livy, History of
Rome 8.35



On this day in 626 B.C. Nabopolassar, the first king of the
Neo-Babylonian (or Chaldean) Empire, assumed the throne. After the
death of the last truly great Assyrian king Ashurbanipal in 627 B.C.,
Assyria was left with relatively ineffectual leadership; Nabopolassar
rose up against the Assyrians and drove them out of Babylon,
eventually enlisting the aid of the Medes to conquer and destroy the
Assyrian capital at Nineveh in 612 B.C. He waged war on Egypt from
610-605 B.C., when he was succeeded by probably the most famous of all
Babylonian kings, Nebuchadnezzar.



"'I shall give that novice a gift,' said Weland. 'A gift that shall do
him good the wide world over and Old England after him. Blow up my
fire, Old Thing, while I get the iron for my last task.' Then he made
a sword – a dark-grey, wavy-lined sword – and I blew the fire while he
hammered. By Oak, Ash, and Thorn, I tell you, Weland was a Smith of
the Gods! He cooled that sword in running water twice, and the third
time he cooled it in the evening dew, and he laid it out in the
moonlight and said Runes (that's charms) over it, and he carved Runes
of Prophecy on the blade. 'Old Thing,' he said, 'this is the best
blade that Weland ever made. Even the user will never know how good it
is.'" - Sir Walter Scott, "Kenilworth" (1821)

Today was the first day of Winter under the Old Calendar, and it was
held in honor of Weyland Smith in the British Isles. Weyland (also
spelled Wayland, Weland and Watlende) is the mythical smith-god of the
Saxon immigrants into Britain. He is synonymous with the
North-Germanic/Norse Volundr of the Volundarkvidda, a poem in the
Poetic Edda.

Weyland had two brothers, Egil and Slagfidur (or Slagfinn). In one
version of the myth, the three brothers lived with three Valkyries:
Olrun, Alvit and Svanhvit. After nine years, the Valkyries left their
lovers. Egil and Slagfidur followed, never to return. In another
version, Weyland married the swan maiden Hervor, and they had a son,
Heime; Hervor later left him. In both versions, his love left him with
a ring; in the former myth, he forged seven hundred duplicates of this
ring.

At a later point in time, he was captured in his sleep by king Nidud
in Nerike who ordered him hamstrung and imprisoned on the island of
Saeverstod. There he was forced to forge items for the king. Weyland's
wife's ring was given to the king's daughter, Bodvild. Nidud wore
Weyland's sword. For revenge, Weyland killed the king's sons when
they visited him in secret, fashioned goblets from their skulls,
jewels from their eyes, and a brooch from their teeth. He sent the
goblets to the king, the jewels to the queen and the brooch to the
kings' daughter. When Bodvild took her ring to him to be mended, he
took the ring and
seduced her, fathering a son and escaping on wings he made.

Weyland forged the sword Balmung, and the armor in which Beowulf
fought Grendel. In Teutonic legend he is also said to have forged a
sword for his son Heime that was wielded by Miming and then by Hodur.
He is sometimes said to be the ruler of the dark elves (svartalfar).

He is particularly associated with Wayland's Smithy, a burial mound in
Oxfordshire. This was named by the Saxons, but the megalithic mound
significantly predates them. It is from this association that the
superstition came about that a horse left there overnight with a small
silver coin (a groat) would be shod by morning.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Sir Walter Scott, Wikipedia

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Happy Thanksgiving to all our US citizens, whether at home in the
United States or living abroad!


"Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men on fowling,
that so we might after a special manner rejoice together after we had
gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much
fowl as, with a little help beside, served the company almost a week.
At which time, among other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of
the Indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their greatest king
Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained
and feasted, and they went out and killed five deer, which they
brought to the plantation and bestowed upon our governor, and upon the
captain, and others. And although it be not always so plentiful as it
was at this time with us, yet by the goodness of God, we are so far
from want that we often wish you partakers of our plenty." - Edward
Winslow, from "A Journal of the Pilgrims at Plymouth", AD 1621


On 21 November, AD 1620, a tiny ship named "The Mayflower" dropped
anchor in what is now Provincetown Harbor in Massachusetts. The
Mayflower carried the Separatist Puritans, later known as "pilgrims".
The 180-ton vessel was about 12 years old and had been in the wine
trade. It was chartered by John Carver, a leader of the Separatist
congregation at Leiden, Holland, who had gone to London to make
arrangements for the voyage to America. The ship was made ready at
Southampton with a passenger list that included English Separatists,
hired help (among them Myles Standish, a professional soldier, and
John Alden, a cooper), and other colonists who were to be taken along
at the insistence of the London businessmen who were helping to
finance the expedition.

The pilgrims were in fact planning to settle in Virginia, but not the
modern-day state of Virginia. They were part of the Virginia Company,
which had the rights to most of the eastern seaboard of the U.S. The
pilgrims had intended to go to the Hudson River region in New York
State, which would have been considered "Northern Virginia," but they
landed in Cape Cod instead. Treacherous seas prevented them from
venturing further south.

They barely survived the brutal winter of 1620-1621, with only 46 of
the original 102 settlers left alive by the summer of 1621. The
original feast in 1621 occurred sometime between September 21 and
November 11. Unlike our modern holiday, it was three days long. The
event was based on English harvest festivals, which traditionally
occurred around the 29th of September. After that first harvest was
completed by the Plymouth colonists, Gov. William Bradford proclaimed
a day of thanksgiving and prayer, shared by all the colonists and
neighboring Indians. The first feast wasn't repeated, so it wasn't the
beginning of a tradition. In fact, the colonists didn't even call the
day Thanksgiving. To them, a thanksgiving was a religious holiday in
which they would go to church and thank God for a specific event, such
as the winning of a battle. On such a religious day, the types of
recreational activities that the pilgrims and Wampanoag Indians
participated in during the 1621 harvest feast --- dancing, singing
secular songs, playing games --- wouldn't have been allowed. The feast
was a secular celebration, so it never would have been considered a
thanksgiving in the pilgrims minds.

In 1623 a day of fasting and prayer during a period of drought was
changed to one of thanksgiving because the rain came during the
prayers. Gradually the custom prevailed in New England of annually
celebrating a day of thanksgiving after the harvest.

During the American Revolution a yearly day of national thanksgiving
was suggested by the Continental Congress. In 1817 New York State
adopted Thanksgiving Day as an annual custom, and by the middle of the
19th century many other states had done the same. In 1863 President
Abraham Lincoln appointed a day of thanksgiving as the last Thursday
in November, which he may have correlated it with the November 21,
1621, anchoring of the Mayflower at Cape Cod. Since then, each
president has issued a Thanksgiving Day proclamation. President
Franklin D. Roosevelt set the date for Thanksgiving to the fourth
Thursday of November in 1939 (approved by the U.S. Congress in 1941).

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCE

Wikipedia, The History Channel

Salve Gnae Corneli,

> So I think that 4 Tribunes would be quite enough for the needs of NR given by the
> present feature of our association, moreover, I do think that 2 Tribunes would be
> better, far better and far enough.

In Q. Fabio M. Minucio cos (2753/2000), one of our two Tribunes disappeared. It was
after this that the number was increased, as we sensed the danger of having only
a lone tribune whose veto would then be invincible.

Still, I do agree with you in part: five is too many, and a situation where every
candidate for Tribune is unopposed is not desireable. Perhaps it could be reduced
to three, with a requirement that if one disappears for more than a month he must
be replaced.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

The cista will open at 12:00 Roman Time, 11/23/2006.

The cista will open at 12:00 Roman Time, 11/23/2006.

Aurelianus Fausto sal.

Here in AAe, we are familiar with the famous saying about 'not being able to
please all of the people all of the time.' That is very true. However, it
is not M. Hortensia Maior's temper or popularity that is my only concern
about her being elected Tribune again. She recently advocated that the Plebs
turn on their elected Tribunes if they didn't support her call for opposition to
a decretum that was still under discussion. She also supported a Tribune's
intercessio that was not legal because it was launched against (say it with
me) a decretum that was still under discussion. This is not simply a matter
of temper or poor judgement, this was an action that, at best, shows a
misunderstanding of the Tribune's powers in Nova Roma and, at worst, demonstrates
that she advocates ignoring the Constitution & by-laws of NR and wants people
to turn on & refute their elected magistrates.

There is no question that Maior has contributed significantly to Nova Roma
as a Tribune but her recent actions lead me to question her commitment to
follow the Constitution and by-laws of our organization. She has not yet shown
any sign of apology or regret of her recent actions and that speaks to me that
she still regards them as justifiable.

Consul-elect, your support of her could be construed to mean that you also
feel that her actions were justified and right. If this is not the case, I
apologize in advance but if not, please know that I always keep a close eye on
my elected officials in all aspects of my life.

Vale.

Vale.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus: L. Rutilio sal.:

>>> That is true: we have many magistrates for few citizens. <<<

This is really true, Luci Rutili, and we have to change that situation if it's possible.

>>> But it should be considered that, unfortunately, for various reasons,

some of our magistrates disappear before the end of their mandate;
fortunately, their number compensates the possible withdrawals (for
example, we were only two diribitores to count the votes in the last
elections...). <<<

What you say is not true in the case of the quaestores. Every quaestor is assigned to his consul or praetor or aedilis ALONE. If a quaestor disappear before the end of their mandate, it cannot be comensated unless electing a new one in the place of the disapeared quaestor. You example is adequate for every magistracy except quaestors. The number of the quaestors have nothing to do with the compensation of the possible withdrawals.
It was not by chance that I have written about the reducing the number of the quaestors. In the case of other minor magistrates they number is appropriate. Overmore, I think we could create some new position among the Vigintisexviri for miscellaneous duties.

Thank you for your thoughts, L. Rutili Minervalis!

Vale!

CN CORN LENTVLVS QVAESTOR

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Personally, I agree that our current number of Tribunes and other officers
may be top heavy but the reason for an odd number of Tribunes is to prevent a
possible deadlock of intercessii. Please remember that no one can override a
Tribunal deadlock except a dictator or interrex. This is a valid argument
for keeping the number at either three or five.

The "big head" analogy is not entirely accurate once you exclude the Senate
from the equation. The Senate is an advisory body and not really part of the
elected magistrates.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus: C. Catoni aedili: sal.:

>>> I think there is an ostensibly practical reason for having a quaestor

assigned to each magistrate: they serve as sort of a "head secretary"
for their respective offices. <<<

Yes, it's evident: but it is against the Roman custom while it could be resolved very easily in a proper Roman way too. I am not against everything which is unhistorical, in some cases I support unhistorical but practical solutions too. But in a case when the situation could be handled in the way Romans did, I adhere to the ancient system. The case of the quaestors and the tribunes is exactly that.

>>>This is, of course, not absolutely

necessary as each magistrate can appoint scribae and/or accensi for
such duties. <<<

That's all. Quaestors lead the office of the consul and deal with the treasury. Other magistrates would have to appoint scribes or whatever for head secretary and so they also would follow the ancient way.

>>> According to Smith's Dictionary, the following definitions apply:

ACCENSI:...(...)
SCRIBAE:... (...)
Interesting to note that both were "public" offices, that accensi were
not used only by the consuls, as they are in our republic, and that
scribae were assigned rather than appointed, as they are in our Republic <<<


In the Old Republic many magistrates could appoint their apparitors and many types of them. In NR consuls have only accensi, every other magistrate has only scribes. Why do not imitate the ancient system? Apparitores were lictores, viatores, librarii, praecones, scribae and accensi. We may have to introduce these all into our system.

>>> One way to take hold of the quaestorship is, as has been suggested on

numerous occasions by numerous citizens, to *mandate* the quaestorship
as the first rung on any climb up the cursus honorum. <<<


I am totally against that solution, i.e. to make mandatory the quaestura as the first step for any higher magistracy. That practice is not suitable to the nature and to the present state of our Republic. We are in a very early stage of the evolution of our Republic which can be compared to the early Roman Republic of the 5th-4th centuries BC. I think that in that stage of our evolution we have to model the early republic when the quaestura was not obligatory. Of course, the most of the politicians run firstly for minor magistracies then for the higher ones - but there wasn't any obligation. The Cursus Honorum as a strict system was only crystallized around the Punic Wars. Our NR Republic is far from that greatness which the Roman State was in those times. If our community grows up and will have 5000 taxpayer citizens, then we can think about imitating the republic of the 2th century. Now I believe in a more modest system, the early republic.

If we want to make any magistracy obligatory by all means, I, perhaps, would agree to an optional system: one would have to hold either Vigintisexviratus or Quaestura before the Praetura or Consulatus. The Tribunatus, the Aedilitas and the Censura would not be counted in that system. I think we coud also mandate those who want to begin their political carrier to serve 1 year as apparitor (sciba, accensus etc.) instead of the 10 year of military service which was required in the ancient republic.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus: Fl. Galerio: sal.:

>>> Personally, I agree that our current number of Tribunes and other officers

may be top heavy but the reason for an odd number of Tribunes is to prevent a
possible deadlock of intercessii. Please remember that no one can override a
Tribunal deadlock except a dictator or interrex. This is a valid argument
for keeping the number at either three or five. <<<

Well, then what did the Romans do with their Tribunes whose number was always an even number? If we have 4 Tribunes and 2 of them veto something and 2 of them veto the intercessio, the result is 0. So there was not veto. If 3 veto against 1: the veto is valid. Where is the problem? Moreover: I think that an even number would require that more Tribunes can agree than the half of them, so we can avoid meaningless obstructions.
To have an odd nubmer of Tribunes is a mistake and has nothing reason.

>>> The "big head" analogy is not entirely accurate once you exclude the Senate from the equation. The Senate is an advisory body and not really part of the elected magistrates. <<<

When I thought about that question I didn't counted the Senate to the magistartes. I think that withouth the Senate we still have a big headed State. There is anyone in that ML who is not a magistrate? :-)

Cura ut valeas!

CN CORN LENTVLVS

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Cn. Lentulus: Ti. Galerio praetori, consuli designato: sal.:

I will try to convince you, Praetor amplissime, not to mandate the quaestura as the first step of the cursus honorum.

Or, if to mandate something, not only the quaestura.

Cura, ut valeas!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Quaestor


Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> ha scritto:
Salve Cato

"one way to take hold of the Quaestorship is, as has been suggested on
numerous occasions by numerous citizens, to *mandate* the Quaestorship
as the first rung on any climb up the Cursus Honorum."

Which is exactly what I intend to do if give the chance this coming year.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Praetor


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Cn. Lentulus: M. Octavio censori: sal.:

>>> In Q. Fabio M. Minucio cos (2753/2000), one of our two Tribunes disappeared. It was after this that the number was increased, as we sensed the danger of having only a lone tribune whose veto would then be invincible. <<<

To have only one Tribune was an absurdum and totally un-Roman and unrepublican. Tribunatus was established with two Tribunes, and their number was always an even number, as every Roman magistracy was always composed by an even number of the magistartes (except very rare cases like Triumviratus).

>>> Still, I do agree with you in part: five is too many, and a situation where every candidate for Tribune is unopposed is not desireable. Perhaps it could be reduced to three, with a requirement that if one disappears for more than a month he must be replaced. <<<

I think this is a good idea but not 3 Tribunes but 2 or 4. Never an odd number! You are right that it could be dangerous if a Tribune vetoes something worthy and just action and his every collegue are disappeared and don't veto that.

This problem could be resolved in two ways:

1) A veto is valid only if the other Tribune (if we have 2 Tribunes) has accepted publicly. In that case, if one of the tribunes disappears the other could not veto arbitrarly.

2) Or we have to have 4 Tribunes, and this way they are quite enough to avoid such a dangerous situation.

Anyway, I would adhere to the 2 Trinunes, and would try a regulation to avoid that problem of disappearings.


Cura, ut valeas!

Gn. Cornelius Lentulus

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M. Hortensia Fl. Aureliano spd;
let me answer you with calm words to dispell these untrue
accusations.

1. I am first and foremost one of the greatest supporters of law in
Nova Roma, remember I saved the res publica from an interrex during
the elections of present Consuls Buteo & Strabo.
If I have a legal opinion I post all my reasoning and support.
Neither A. Apollonius Cordus nor others such as Saturninus with
classical knowledge have objected. I stick to the mos of the res
publica as it should be.

2. 2 Consuls support me; One Censor. Are you saying that they all
are against the law too? Is A. Apollonius Cordus against the law?
C.Curius Saturninus?

3. Finally there will be 5 tribunes; I will need the consent of
others to do anything. So there is nothing to worry about.

4. Since you became a civis in 2001, there have been changes as our
knowledge grew. Flavius is an Imperial praenomen so it is no longer
used. It was the magistrates who performed most religious rituals
not the flamens or pontiffs. They advised them. I think these are
your fears. But Nova Roma has only become better, truer to its
history and the gods.

5. I am a longtime cultrix of the religio, do see my beautiful
lararium posted at the NRwiki under 'lararium', I'm also working on
the first online temple to "Fortuna Populi." I am devoted to the
gods and our res publica.

Let the plebs decide for themselves; this is in our best tradtion.
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Here in AAe, we are familiar with the famous saying about 'not

being able to

> please all of the people all of the time.' That is very true.

However, it

> is not M. Hortensia Maior's temper or popularity that is my only

concern

> about her being elected Tribune again. She recently advocated

that the Plebs

> turn on their elected Tribunes if they didn't support her call

for opposition to

> a decretum that was still under discussion. She also supported a

Tribune's

> intercessio that was not legal because it was launched against

(say it with

> me) a decretum that was still under discussion. This is not

simply a matter

> of temper or poor judgement, this was an action that, at best,

shows a

> misunderstanding of the Tribune's powers in Nova Roma and, at

worst, demonstrates

> that she advocates ignoring the Constitution & by-laws of NR and

wants people

> to turn on & refute their elected magistrates.
>
> There is no question that Maior has contributed significantly to

Nova Roma

> as a Tribune but her recent actions lead me to question her

commitment to

> follow the Constitution and by-laws of our organization. She has

not yet shown

> any sign of apology or regret of her recent actions and that

speaks to me that

> she still regards them as justifiable.
>
> Consul-elect, your support of her could be construed to mean that

you also

> feel that her actions were justified and right. If this is not

the case, I

> apologize in advance but if not, please know that I always keep a

close eye on

> my elected officials in all aspects of my life.
>
> Vale.
>
> Vale.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dominium (mancipium) EST proprietas
Vale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnes SPD

Salvete!

It is true that discussions with Marca Hortensia often make me want to
go out and kick puppies, but I imagine there are probably people that
I make feel that way too.

So speaking as a purely disinterested patrician, I believe the most
obvious thing to do is let the People (or at least the plebs) speak at
the cista. If they don't want her, they can simply not vote for her.

Valete bene,

Cato

M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S. P. D.

Now in the Suntory Museum in Osaka, Japan:

"POMPEII: Stories From An Eruption"

Dates : November 18, 2006 - January 21, 2007

Here is a review from the exhibit's visit to the Field Museum in
Chicago: http://arthistory.about.com/library/weekly/bl_pompeiifm_rev.htm

Suntory Museum, Osaka, (06) 6577-0001, 1-5-10 Kaigan-dori, Osaka-shi,
near Kaiyukan Aquarium; 5-min. walk from Osaka-ko Station, Chuo Line.
10:30 a.m.-7:30 p.m. 1,200 yen. Closed Mon., Dec. 31; open Dec. 25,
Jan. 1, Jan. 8

Is anyone living in or visiting Asia Orientalis interested in meeting
up for the exhibit?

Optime valete!

Salve

> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus: Quiritibus: salutem dicit:
> Salvete, Quirites!
> I thought many times about the number of our
> Tribunes of the Plebs. I found it amusing why we
> have 5 Tribunes while in the ancient Rome thier
> number was ever an even number, 2, 4... to 10.

[..]

> 1) According to the ancient practice their number
> must be an even number, so 5 is not OK.

M.Arminius: A historical clarification:
"According to [..] Piso, there were originally (that
is, 494 BC) 2 tribunes, but their number was increased
to five in 471 BC; Livy and Dionysius, on the other
hand, say that the first two tribunes of 494
immediately co-opted 3 additional colleagues.
Diodorus, however, states that in 471 'for the first
time 4 tribunes of the plebs were elected' [..] On any
event, by the middle of the fifth century the number
of tribunes had been increased to ten, an event dated
by Livy to 457 BC".
From "The beginnings of Rome", TJ Cornell, p.259.

> 2) We have a State with a giant head and with a
> little body.

M.Arminius: The body of magistrates of Nova Roma was
formed following a "top-down" way of thinking; of Roma
Antiqua had x Consules, x Aediles etc, Nova Roma
should have it too, without regard to the processes
that formed that magistratures and their numbers.
Frequently, we see that the tasks of the magistrates
dont fit very well with the historical examples or
with a modern organization in a modern world. We could
stay with the current model, trying to perfect it, or
change it, solving some problems, but discovering
others.

Sometimes, i think that it would be better if we had a
"Nova Roma minima", with only two Consules and two
Questores; no Praetores, no Aediles etc.
By the other side, the large number of magistracies
could be a factor of atractiveness; even a (relative)
newcomer could be a magistrate.

> Avete atque valete!
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R

Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior



_______________________________________________________
O Yahoo! está de cara nova. Venha conferir!
http://br.yahoo.com

It was really amazing to read on the webpage MIBAC 23-11-
2006 "Rassagna Stampa" a list of nearly 30 Italian & English
language news articles regarding sad news of the Getty Museums
refusal to return the "ALL" of the stolen Italian artifacts
requested by Minister Rutelli and the MIBAC and the Italian
government, etc.

1. MIBAC 22-11-2006, CONFERENZA STAMPA SUL GETTY MUSEUM =
http://www.beniculturali.it/news/comunicati/dettagliocomunicati.asp?
Id=2324


2. MIBAC 23-11-2006 =

http://rassegnastampa.beniculturali.it/Rassegnanew/

3. La Repubblica, 23-11-2006, Rutelli contro il Paul Getty
Museum "Non possono esporre opere rubate" =

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/11/sezioni/spettacoli_e_cultura/getty-
museum-polemiche/parla-rutelli/parla-rutelli.html

4. La Repubblica, 23-11-2006, Copy of letter 20-11-2006, from
Museum Director Brand to Min. Rutelli. =

http://download.repubblica.it/pdf/rutelli.pdf

Personally, I think the former Italian Ministers of Culture and the
Italian government have not done enough legally, to make the
Director of the Getty Museum to comply with the UNESCO laws and the
Italian laws concerning returning of stolen artifacts to Italy.

Min. Rutelli, and the Italian government now needs to act
diplomatically and economically to make Getty return the stolen
artifacts, as well as recover the cost of legal fee's the Mibac and
the Italian Government has had to spend on the ongoing trial of
former curator of Marion True and the Getty Museum proceeding!

1. Begin a publicity campaign to inform Italian related
organizations here in the USA to bring this issue to the attention
of US. Congress, Italian-Americans and the American people to a make
them aware of the arrogance and refusal of the Getty Museum to
return the stolen artifacts to Italy.

2. For "ALL" Americans traveling to Italy increase the fee's to
entrance archaeological & cultural sites, museums!

3. For all American academic institutions (i.e the American
Academy in Rome) and American Universities from the USA conducting
archaeological & cultural research in Italy, have them pay a 3%
administration or research fee.

4. Inform Italian citizen traveling to the USA to boycott and
not to visit the Getty Museum or related organizations affiliated
with the Getty museum.

Martin G. Conde
Washington DC, USA
mgconde@...

Cn. Lentulus: M. Arminio: sal.:

>>> M.Arminius: A historical clarification:

"According to [..] Piso, there were originally (that
is, 494 BC) 2 tribunes, but their number was increased
to five in 471 BC; Livy and Dionysius, on the other
hand, say that the first two tribunes of 494
immediately co-opted 3 additional colleagues.
Diodorus, however, states that in 471 'for the first
time 4 tribunes of the plebs were elected' [..] On any
event, by the middle of the fifth century the number
of tribunes had been increased to ten, an event dated
by Livy to 457 BC".
From "The beginnings of Rome", TJ Cornell, p.259.<<<<


Thank you, Marce Armini, for providing me with this information. I have never heared that there were 5 tribunes in Rome though I read many books about the Roman political system. Books usually speak as if the number of the Tribunes achieved 10 around the Punic Wars. That was my impression. But I have never read the date.

If it's true you write, Marce Armini, I bow my head before the historical facts I wasn't aware of.

I modify my proposal: 4 Tribunes (instead of 2). The even number is still better than the odd number. If we have 5 Tribunes, we need 3 of them to prohibit a wrong veto: if we have 4 Tribunes, we need 2 of them. So the proportion is more favorable and more secure regarding possible destructive Tribunes.

>>> Sometimes, i think that it would be better if we had a

"Nova Roma minima", with only two Consules and two
Questores; no Praetores, no Aediles etc.
By the other side, the large number of magistracies
could be a factor of atractiveness; even a (relative)
newcomer could be a magistrate. <<<

I would welcome if something from the concept of Nova Roma Minima would be realized. I understand and agree that the large number of magistracies
could be a factor of atractiveness. It's true. But when we serially don't have enough candidates that probably means something: it's the sign of the problem. I don't suggest a drastical reducement of the number of the magistrates: I do suggest that the number of the quaestors and tribunes could be reduced.

Thank you for your thoughts!

VALE!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
http://mail.yahoo.it

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sir, I find your presentation to be biased and unhelpful.

In fact, the Getty has said they are willing to continue meeting with
Italian officials. They will not accept a demand to "return" a
particular bronze to Italy because they claim it was found in
international waters. Italian courts have found that there is no
evidence that this particular bronze was stolen.

The Getty has already come to an agreement to return a subtantial
number of items. To take the actions that you suggest would serve no
useful purpose. It could not increase their willingness to investigate
the origins of objects and to return them when they are found to be
stolen, since they are already willing to do so.

It would be far better to be vocal in support of museums that are
continuing to pursue ways to repatriate art in a systematic way.

Your suggestion that citizens and institutions of the Unites States be
targeted with special fees is beneath the consideration of any
sensible person. I cannot imagine that any Italian agengies would
consider needlessly antagonizing innocent people in this way.
Educating a sympatheic public would be far more productive.

M. Lucretius Agricola
civis Novae Romae

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Martin G Conde" <mgconde@...> wrote:
>
> It was really amazing to read on the webpage MIBAC 23-11-
> 2006 "Rassagna Stampa" a list of nearly 30 Italian & English
> language news articles regarding sad news of the Getty Museums
> refusal to return the "ALL" of the stolen Italian artifacts
> requested by Minister Rutelli and the MIBAC and the Italian
> government, etc.

[SNIP]

> Personally, I think the former Italian Ministers of Culture and the
> Italian government have not done enough legally, to make the
> Director of the Getty Museum to comply with the UNESCO laws and the
> Italian laws concerning returning of stolen artifacts to Italy.
>
> Min. Rutelli, and the Italian government now needs to act
> diplomatically and economically to make Getty return the stolen
> artifacts, as well as recover the cost of legal fee's the Mibac and
> the Italian Government has had to spend on the ongoing trial of
> former curator of Marion True and the Getty Museum proceeding!
>
> 1. Begin a publicity campaign to inform Italian related
> organizations here in the USA to bring this issue to the attention
> of US. Congress, Italian-Americans and the American people to a make
> them aware of the arrogance and refusal of the Getty Museum to
> return the stolen artifacts to Italy.
>
> 2. For "ALL" Americans traveling to Italy increase the fee's to
> entrance archaeological & cultural sites, museums!
>
> 3. For all American academic institutions (i.e the American
> Academy in Rome) and American Universities from the USA conducting
> archaeological & cultural research in Italy, have them pay a 3%
> administration or research fee.
>
> 4. Inform Italian citizen traveling to the USA to boycott and
> not to visit the Getty Museum or related organizations affiliated
> with the Getty museum.
>
> Martin G. Conde
> Washington DC, USA
> mgconde@...
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VIII Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"After placing L. Papirius Crassus in command of the City and
prohibiting Q. Fabius from any action in his capacity of Master of the
Horse, the Dictator returned to the camp. His arrival was not viewed
with much pleasure by his own men, nor did it create any alarm amongst
the enemy. For the very next day, either unaware of his presence or
regarding it of small importance whether he were present or absent,
they marched towards the camp in order of battle. And yet so much
depended upon that one man, L. Papirius, such care did he show in
choosing his ground and posting his reserves, so far did he strengthen
his force in every way that military skill could suggest, that if the
general's tactics had been backed up by the goodwill of the troops it
was considered absolutely certain that the Samnite war would that day
have been brought to a close. As it was, the soldiers showed no
energy; they deliberately threw the victory away that their
commander's reputation might be damaged. The Samnites lost a larger
proportion of killed, the Romans had more wounded. The quick eye of
the general saw what prevented his success, and he realised that he
must curb his temper and soften his sternness by greater affability.
He went round the camp accompanied by his staff and visited the
wounded, putting his head inside their tents and asking them how they
were getting on, and commending them individually by name to the care
of his staff officers, the military tribunes, and prefects. In
adopting this course, which naturally tended to make him popular, he
showed so much tact that the feelings of the men were much sooner won
over to their commander now that their bodies were being properly
looked after. Nothing conduced more to their recovery than the
gratitude they felt for his attention. When the health of the army was
completely restored he gave battle to the enemy, both he and his men
feeling quite confident of victory, and he so completely defeated and
routed the Samnites that this was the last occasion on which they
ventured on a regular engagement with the Dictator. After this the
victorious army advanced in every direction where there was any
prospect of plunder, but wherever they marched they found no armed
force; they were nowhere openly attacked or surprised from ambush.
They showed all the greater alertness because the Dictator had issued
an order that the whole of the spoil was to be given to the soldiers;
the chance of private gain stimulated their warlike spirit quite as
much as the consciousness that they were avenging the wrongs of their
country. Cowed by these defeats, the Samnites made overtures for peace
and gave the Dictator an undertaking to supply each of the soldiers
with a set of garments and a year's pay. On his referring them to the
senate they replied that they would follow him to Rome and trust their
cause solely to his honour and rectitude. The army was thereupon
withdrawn from Samnium." - Livy, History of Rome 8.36


According to some sources (primarily "The Oxford Companion to The
Year"), today was the first day of a festival called the Brumalia, a
festival of Bacchus instituted by Romulus who entertained the Senate
during this time. It would have run from 24 November to 17 December,
when the Saturnalia commences. However, it seems more likely that the
Brumalia took place on 25 December --- at the end of the Saturnalia,
as "bruma" is an apparent contraction of "brevissima" or "shortest",
and meant the "shortest day" and therefore referred to the Winter
Solstice.


Valete bene!

Cato




SOURCES

Livy, Brumalia (Oxford Companion to The Year)

Salvete,
Can anyone supply me with some names of modern day towns in Italy who
belonged to the ancient Latin League?Valete.

Appius Galerius Aurelianus
Semper Fidelis!

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I just received an e-mail from Emilia Curia Finnica the Custos who
handled the Comitia Centuriata results. She indicated that she made a
mistake when she reported the results to me last time, and has
apologized for her error. As can be seen below Lucius Arminus Faustus
is the senior Consul, and Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is the junior
Consul.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Consul

---

Comitia Centuriata results (wins + won ties)

1. Censores

1st round:
Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus 41 (38+3)

Centuries abs: 7 (7+0)
Centuries not voting: 3
Centuries required: 25

2. Consules

1st round:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 17 (12+5)
Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 (8+7)
Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus 13 (5+8)
Flavius Vedius Germanicus 1 (1+0)

2nd round:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 17 + 1 (0+1) = 18
Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 + 0 = 15
Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus 13 + 0 = 13

3rd round:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 18 + 4 (1+3) = 22
Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 + 8 (4+4) = 23

(One century not voting for either -> Centuries required: 23)

4th round:
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 18 + 9 (rest of the centuries that voted) =
27

Centuries abs: 1
Centuries not voting: 4
Centuries required: 24


3. Praetores

1st round:
Gaius Equitius Cato 18 (11+7)
Aula Tullia Scholastica 16 (10+6)
Titus Julius Sabinus 14 (4+10)

2nd round:
Gaius Equitius Cato 18 + 8 (6+2) = 26
Aula Tullia Scholastica 16 + 5 (3+2) = 21

3rd round:
Aula Tullia Scholastica 20 + 15 (rest of the centuries that voted) = 35

Centuries abs: -
Centuries not voting: 3
Centuries required: 25

Salvete, citizens,

I just like to make some remarks about Senior and Junior:

The Imperium, the power of the consules, is exactly the SAME for both.
Both have same power. Both share same Imperium. Both have the same
number of lictores. Both hold the auspices of the state. But wear
trabeia toga and seat on Curule Chair. Both order and both veto
themselves and the other magistrates (except the TP and PA, because
they are sacrossainct)

I thank for illustrious Consul Modianus to clarify the doubts about
the proceedings taken on the law. Been Historical has some of these
burdens.

Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus
Designated Consul for 2007. Senior or Junior, it doesn´t matter.
What Matter is the will of the gods and the Concordia between the colleagues


2006/11/24, David Kling (Modianus) <tau.athanasios@...>:

> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> I just received an e-mail from Emilia Curia Finnica the Custos who
> handled the Comitia Centuriata results. She indicated that she made a
> mistake when she reported the results to me last time, and has
> apologized for her error. As can be seen below Lucius Arminus Faustus
> is the senior Consul, and Tiberius Galerius Paulinus is the junior
> Consul.
>
> Valete:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Consul
>
> ---
>
> Comitia Centuriata results (wins + won ties)
>
> 1. Censores
>
> 1st round:
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus 41 (38+3)
>
> Centuries abs: 7 (7+0)
> Centuries not voting: 3
> Centuries required: 25
>
> 2. Consules
>
> 1st round:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 17 (12+5)
> Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 (8+7)
> Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus 13 (5+8)
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus 1 (1+0)
>
> 2nd round:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 17 + 1 (0+1) = 18
> Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 + 0 = 15
> Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus 13 + 0 = 13
>
> 3rd round:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 18 + 4 (1+3) = 22
> Lucius Arminius Faustus 15 + 8 (4+4) = 23
>
> (One century not voting for either -> Centuries required: 23)
>
> 4th round:
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 18 + 9 (rest of the centuries that voted) =
> 27
>
> Centuries abs: 1
> Centuries not voting: 4
> Centuries required: 24
>
>
> 3. Praetores
>
> 1st round:
> Gaius Equitius Cato 18 (11+7)
> Aula Tullia Scholastica 16 (10+6)
> Titus Julius Sabinus 14 (4+10)
>
> 2nd round:
> Gaius Equitius Cato 18 + 8 (6+2) = 26
> Aula Tullia Scholastica 16 + 5 (3+2) = 21
>
> 3rd round:
> Aula Tullia Scholastica 20 + 15 (rest of the centuries that voted) = 35
>
> Centuries abs: -
> Centuries not voting: 3
> Centuries required: 25
>

--
Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Arminio Fausto salutem dicit

In this you and I are in agreement. I have never once referred to myself as
the "senior Consul" considering Pompeia Minucia Straba my consular equal in
every way. However, I think it is a good idea to have some transparency to
show how the process worked and who was elected and how. For example, it
seems the people have no interest in a self proclaimed "jerk" being elected
as Consul giving him only one century (hopefully his own century). Senior
or Junior, it matters very little. None the less, congratulations "senior"
Consul-elect!

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 11/24/06, Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete, citizens,
>
> I just like to make some remarks about Senior and Junior:
>
> The Imperium, the power of the consules, is exactly the SAME for both.
> Both have same power. Both share same Imperium. Both have the same
> number of lictores. Both hold the auspices of the state. But wear
> trabeia toga and seat on Curule Chair. Both order and both veto
> themselves and the other magistrates (except the TP and PA, because
> they are sacrossainct)
>
> I thank for illustrious Consul Modianus to clarify the doubts about
> the proceedings taken on the law. Been Historical has some of these
> burdens.
>
> Valete bene in pacem deorum,
> L. Arminius Faustus
> Designated Consul for 2007. Senior or Junior, it doesn´t matter.
> What Matter is the will of the gods and the Concordia between the
> colleagues
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Originally thought to be either the product of an Etruscan workshop in
the 5th century B.C. or the masterpiece of the 6th century B.C. Etruscan
sculptor Vulca of Veii ,research on casting techniques suggests it may have
been crafted in the middle ages

*http://tinyurl.com/y8d369*
Flavia Lucilla Merula
--
Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Indeed, excellent Consul Modianus. Indeed!

I´m worried, however, some people fell unfair the ties be resolved by lot.
However, the Ancient never though on the lot as lucky, but as the will of
the gods expressing themselves. On Athens, the arconte himself was taken by
lot.

We elected the magistrate to take the lot (custodes). So, it is not somebody
would have interest we should suspect. And the custodes were approved by the
own people themselves, voting under the auspices on the Comitia (ie,
approved by the gods). Alas, we have so many lots, of simple proportion
(50%), that statistically is easy to say if the custodes are making some
cheat (like a 5% chance combination).

Alas, at the same fashion, we believe the gods approves the election because
of the word of the presiding magistrate taking the auspices as saying they
were favourable.

The thinking of Ancient, we must fight hard to adquire, is that is not
enough the will of the men to make a magistrate, but also the will of the
gods. It is true by their thinking, since the state is the ´coletive´ of the
worshippers of the god of the state (COULANGES)

Our great struggle in NR, is - like said excellent tribune Horatianus once -
see the gods as real "partners" of this state.

The congratulations are all for you, presiding magistrate, that held the
Comitia under your auspices efficiently, and ´created me´ as consul, passing
the holy auspices of the state for me in the eve of the new year. I hope,
when my time comes, having the same honoured and roman behaviour.

Valete bene in pacem deourm,
L. Arminius Faustus

>Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Arminio Fausto salutem dicit

In this you and I are in agreement. I have never once referred to myself as
the "senior Consul" considering Pompeia Minucia Straba my consular equal in
every way. However, I think it is a good idea to have some transparency to
show how the process worked and who was elected and how. For example, it
seems the people have no interest in a self proclaimed "jerk" being elected
as Consul giving him only one century (hopefully his own century). Senior
or Junior, it matters very little. None the less, congratulations "senior"
Consul-elect!

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus


2006/11/24, David Kling (Modianus) <tau.athanasios@...>:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Arminio Fausto salutem dicit
>
> In this you and I are in agreement. I have never once referred to myself
> as
> the "senior Consul" considering Pompeia Minucia Straba my consular equal
> in
> every way. However, I think it is a good idea to have some transparency to
> show how the process worked and who was elected and how. For example, it
> seems the people have no interest in a self proclaimed "jerk" being
> elected
> as Consul giving him only one century (hopefully his own century). Senior
> or Junior, it matters very little. None the less, congratulations "senior"
> Consul-elect!
>
> Vale:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On 11/24/06, Lucius Arminius Faustus <lafaustus@...<lafaustus%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete, citizens,
> >
> > I just like to make some remarks about Senior and Junior:
> >
> > The Imperium, the power of the consules, is exactly the SAME for both.
> > Both have same power. Both share same Imperium. Both have the same
> > number of lictores. Both hold the auspices of the state. But wear
> > trabeia toga and seat on Curule Chair. Both order and both veto
> > themselves and the other magistrates (except the TP and PA, because
> > they are sacrossainct)
> >
> > I thank for illustrious Consul Modianus to clarify the doubts about
> > the proceedings taken on the law. Been Historical has some of these
> > burdens.
> >
> > Valete bene in pacem deorum,
> > L. Arminius Faustus
> > Designated Consul for 2007. Senior or Junior, it doesn´t matter.
> > What Matter is the will of the gods and the Concordia between the
> > colleagues
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

This might be of interest to some here.

We are pleased to announce the launch of Mithras Reader - An
academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman, and Persian Studies.
Volume 1.


It is to have a common place for various interested parties to
exchange ideas. It is one of the few journals that has both
academics and religious followers contributing to it; hopefully
plenty of cross fertilisation of ideas will take place.

It has three separate sections:

Section I. Academic section: which has academic papers from
researchers based in Universities working in this field, or from
established independent researchers.

Section II. Art section: from artists working with classical themes.

Section III. Religious Section: articles, modern rites, poems, hymns
etcÂ…

Details of first issue below and attached.

It can be ordered via www.innerbookshop.com or Amazon.

Feel free to pass onto under interested parties. Thanks.

Regards,
Nabarz


=============================================================
Mithras Reader - An academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman,
and Persian Studies. Volume 1

Editor Payam Nabarz

Mithras Readers: An academic and religious journal of Greco-Roman
and Persian studies is dedicated to all the religions of the
classical world in all its aspects-literature, history, poetry and
philosophy. It includes academic papers from researchers and
spiritual articles from practitioners of religions of the classical
world. It also includes classical world based art work both modern
interpretations and traditional forms.

Details
Paperback: 104 pages
Publisher: Twin Serpents Ltd. (November 16, 2006)
Language: English
ISBN: 1905524099


-------------------------------------------------------
Section I: Academic papers

Continuity and Change in the Cult of Mithra, by Dr. Israel Campos
Méndez, University of Las Palmas.
Mithra and the warrior group
Mithra and the Iranian words and images

Introduction to Classes of Manichean, Mithrâism and Sufiyeh, by Dr.
Saloome Rostampoor, Islamic Azad University – Islam shahr unite,
Iran.

Entheos ho syros, polymathçs ho phoinix: Neoplatonist approaches to
religious practice in Iamblichus and Porphyry, by Sergio Knipe,
Kings College, Cambridge.

Mithraism and Alchemy by David Livingstone author of "The Dying God:
The Hidden History of Western Civilization."

-----------------------------------------------------
Section 2: Arts

`For example Mithras' exhibition by Farangis Yegane, artist,
painter, and illustrator of the `Cat and Mice story'.

White steer with line of red light leading to the archaeological
museum
Cautes and Cautopates at the fire-altar
Center part of blue triptych with bleeding steer
Mithraeum and ritual of initiation
Controversial grey triptych depicting the crucified Christ and the
bleeding sacrificed white steer
Stair with different ranks
Sketch of white steer

----------------------------------------------------
Section 3: Religious articles

Meeting Mithra by Guya Vichi, founder of Solar Centre and author
of "Wood, the Stone, the Fire" and "Thousand Doors of the Rainbow".
Ode To Mithra by Guya Vichi

Hymn to the Sun by Katherine Sutherland, Poet.

Mithras Liturgy with the Orphic hymns, by Payam Nabarz author
of "The Mysteries of Mithras The Pagan Belief That Shaped the
Christian World" and "The Persian 'Mar Nameh': The Zoroastrian 'Book
of the Snake' Omens and Calendar".

News & Reviews
Books, Films, Games.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Salvete,

I have enabled editing of some of your information in the Album Civium.
You can now modify your own email address, password, homepage,
and racing faction. You can also join and quit sodalitates.

To access these features, go to
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album
...and log in with your full Roman name, email address (if unique),
or citizen ID number, and password. (You can do a password reset
if necessary).

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"

Salve Marcus Octavius Gracchus

Thank you for this update!! It is very easy to use and I believe a number of citizens will
put it to good use. I just did and it worked like a charm.

Again thanks

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hucke<mailto:hucke@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Album Civium Enhancement - edit your profile


Salvete,

I have enabled editing of some of your information in the Album Civium.
You can now modify your own email address, password, homepage,
and racing faction. You can also join and quit sodalitates.

To access these features, go to
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album<http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album>
...and log in with your full Roman name, email address (if unique),
or citizen ID number, and password. (You can do a password reset
if necessary).

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@...<mailto:octavius@...> * http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/>

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marcus Octavius Gracchus

I wanted to e-mail a photo to up load to my citizen's page. I saw this was the address. is this right? photos2759 of novaroma.org

Vale,
Luci
Lucius Curtius Paullus


---- Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

=============
Salve Marcus Octavius Gracchus

Thank you for this update!! It is very easy to use and I believe a number of citizens will
put it to good use. I just did and it worked like a charm.

Again thanks

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Hucke<mailto:hucke@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Album Civium Enhancement - edit your profile


Salvete,

I have enabled editing of some of your information in the Album Civium.
You can now modify your own email address, password, homepage,
and racing faction. You can also join and quit sodalitates.

To access these features, go to
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album<http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album>
...and log in with your full Roman name, email address (if unique),
or citizen ID number, and password. (You can do a password reset
if necessary).

Valete, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@...<mailto:octavius@...> * http://www.graveyards.com<http://www.graveyards.com/>

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VII Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The Dictator made a triumphal entry into the City, and as he wished
to lay down his office, he received instructions from the senate
before doing so to conduct the consular elections. The new consuls
were C. Sulpicius Longus (for the second time) and Q. Aemilius
Cerretanus. The Samnites did not succeed in obtaining a permanent
peace, as they could not agree on the conditions; they took back with
them a truce for one year. But even this was soon broken, for when
they heard that Papirius had resigned they were eager to renew
hostilities. The new consuls-some authorities give Aulus instead of
Aemilius for the second consul-had on their hands a fresh enemy, the
Apulians, in addition to the revolt of the Samnites. Armies were
despatched against both; the Samnites were allotted to Sulpicius, the
Apulians to Aemilius. Some writers assert that it was not against the
Apulians that the campaign was undertaken, but for the protection of
their allies against the wanton aggressions of the Samnites. The
circumstances of that people, however, who were hardly able to defend
themselves, make it more probable that they had not attacked the
Apulians but that both nations were united in hostilities against
Rome. Nothing noteworthy took place; the districts of both Samnium and
Apulia were laid waste, but neither in the one nor the other was the
enemy met with. At Rome the citizens were one night suddenly aroused
from sleep by an alarm so serious that the Capitol, the Citadel, the
walls, and gates were filled with troops. The whole population was
called to arms, but when it grew light neither the author nor the
cause of the excitement was discovered. In this year M. Flavius, a
tribune of the plebs, brought before the people a proposal to take
measures against the Tusculans, "by whose counsel and assistance the
peoples of Velitrae and Privernum had made war against the people of
Rome." The people of Tusculum came to Rome with their wives and
children in mourning garb, like men awaiting trial, and went from
tribe to tribe prostrating themselves before the tribesmen. The
compassion which their attitude called out went further to procure
their pardon than their attempts to exculpate themselves. All the
tribes, with the exception of the Pollian tribe, vetoed the proposal.
That tribe voted for a proposal that all the adult males should be
scourged and beheaded, and their wives and children sold into slavery.
Even as late as the last generation the Tusculans retained the memory
of that cruel sentence, and their resentment against its authors
showed itself in the fact that the Papirian tribe (in which the
Tusculans were afterwards incorporated) hardly ever voted for any
candidate belonging to the Pollian tribe." - Livy, History of Rome 8.37


"'Dearest mother,' exclaimed Proserpina, 'I will tell you the whole
truth. Until this very morning, not a morsel of food had passed my
lips. But to-day, they brought me a pomegranate (a very dry one it
was, and all shriveled up, till there was little left of it but seeds
and skin), and having seen no fruit for so long a time, and being
faint with hunger, I was tempted just to bite it. The instant I tasted
it, King Pluto and Quicksilver came into the room. I had not swallowed
a morsel; but--dear mother, I hope it was no harm--but six of the
pomegranate seeds, I am afraid, remained in my mouth.'

'Ah, unfortunate child, and miserable me!' exclaimed Ceres. 'For each
of those six pomegranate seeds you must spend one month of every year
in King Pluto's palace. You are but half restored to your mother. Only
six months with me, and six with that good-for-nothing King of Darkness!'

'Do not speak so harshly of poor King Pluto,' said Prosperina, kissing
her mother. 'He has some very good qualities; and I really think I can
bear to spend six months in his palace, if he will only let me spend
the other six with you. He certainly did very wrong to carry me off;
but then, as he says, it was but a dismal sort of life for him, to
live in that great gloomy place, all alone; and it has made a
wonderful change in his spirits to have a little girl to run up stairs
and down. There is some comfort in making him so happy; and so, upon
the whole, dearest mother, let us be thankful that he is not to keep
me the whole year round.'" - Nathanial Hawthorne, "The Pomegranate
Seeds", from "Tanglewood Tales" (1853)

"Pluto asked from Jove that he give him in marriage Ceres' daughter
and his own. Jove said that Ceres would not permit her daughter to
live in gloomy Tartarus, but bade him seize her as she was gathering
flowers on Mount Etna, which is in Sicily. While Proserpina was
gathering flowers with Venus, Diana, and Minerva, Pluto came in his
four-horse chariot, and seized her. Afterwards Ceres obtained from
Jove permission for her to stay half of the year with her, and half
with Pluto." - Hyginus, Fabulae 146

"...Not that fair field
Of Enna where Proserpine gathering flowers,
Herself a fairer flower, by gloomy Dis
Was gathered, which cost Ceres all that pain
To seek her through the world,-
...might with this Paradise
Of Eden strive." - John Milton, "Paradise Lost" Book IV

"By the silent mysteries of your [Demeter's] baskets and the winged
courses of your attendant Dracones, by the furrows in your Sicilian
soil, by Proserpina's descent to a lightless marriage, and by your
daughter's return to rediscovered light, and by all else which the
shrine of Attic Eleusis shrouds in silence." - Apuleius, The Golden
Ass 6.2

"There, in front [at the ends of the earth], stand the echoing halls
of the god of the lower-world, strong Haides, and of awful Persephone.
A fearful hound Kerberos guards the house in front ... keeps watch and
devours whomsoever he catches going out of the gates of strong Haides
and awful Persephone." - Hesiod, Theogony 767

"Because the country round about Hipponion in Southern Italia has
luxuriant meadows abounding in flowers, people have believed that Kore
[Proserpina] used to come hither from Sikelia (Sicily) to gather
flowers; and consequently it has become the custom among the women of
Hipponion to gather flowers and to weave them into garlands, so that
on festival days it is disgraceful to wear bought garlands." - Strabo,
Geography 6.1.5

In ancient Greece, today was held in honor of Persephone, known to the
Romans as Proserpina. Her name probably evolved from the word
"proserpere", "to emerge", to underscore Her importance in the growth
of crops. The Romans eventually syncretized Her cult with that of
Libera, an ancient fertility goddess.

She is the daughter of Iuppiter and Ceres, and by all acounts a quite
beautiful maiden. Venus, in order to bring love to Pluto, sent Her
son Amor to hit Pluto with one of his arrows. Proserpina was in
Sicily, at the fountain of Aretusa near Enna, where She was playing
with some nymphs and collecting flowers, when Pluto came out from the
volcano Etna with four black horses. He abducted Her in order to marry
Her and live with Her in Hades of which He is the ruler. Notably,
Pluto was also Her uncle, being Iuppiter's (and Ceres's) brother.
Pluto made Her Queen of the Underworld, where She sits upon a throne
in Dis.

Her mother Ceres, the goddess of cereals or of the Earth, vainly went
looking for Her in any corner of the Earth, but wasn't able to find
anything but a small belt that was floating upon a little lake (made
with the tears of the nymphs). In Her desperation Ceres angrily
stopped the growth of fruits and vegetables, bestowing a malediction
on Sicily. Ceres refused to go back to Mount Olympus and started
walking on the Earth, making a desert at every step; as she travelled,
her cries of "Kore!" (another name for Proserpina) echoed across an
increasingly barren world.

Worried, Iuppiter sent Mercury to order Pluto to free Proserpina.
Pluto obeyed, but before letting Her go, He made Her eat six
pomegranate seeds (a symbol of fidelity in marriage) so she would have
to live six months of each year with Him, and stay the rest with Her
mother. So this is the reason for springtime: when Proserpina comes
back to Her mother, Ceres decorates the Earth with welcoming flowers,
but when in autumn She has to go back to Hades, nature loses any color.
Now, as the Northern Hemisphere rolls slowly into winter, Proserpina
makes Her way back to Hades, to sit on that dismal throne until Spring
returns.

Valete bene!

Cato

SOURCES

Livy, Milton, Apuleius, Hawthorne, Hyginus, Hesiod, Strabo

ave Aureliane,

here you are:

I know these out of the original 29 cities (according to Dionigi di
Alicarnasso, I don't know how he is named in English).

1) Alba Longa, lost city, should be close to "Castel Gandolfo" or "Albano"
2) Bola, lost, between modern Labico and Palestrina (ancient Praeneste)
3) Corioli, lost, not far from ancient Lavinium
4) Fidanae (a Rome quartier), modern "Borgata Fidene"
5) Pedum, modern "Gallicano nel Lazio"
6) Querquetulum, modern "Corcolle"
7) Tolerium, lost, close to "Palestrina"
8) Vetelia, lost
9) Apiolae, lost

If you know about other cities in the Latin league I guess I can tell
you about the modern name.

vale
M IVL PERVSIANVS


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Marshall" <centorious@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete,
> Can anyone supply me with some names of modern day towns in Italy who
> belonged to the ancient Latin League?Valete.
>
> Appius Galerius Aurelianus
> Semper Fidelis!
>

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

Having received word of favourable Auspices by Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Consul, Pontifex, Flamen, Augur, I hereby summon the Comitia Centuriata on behalf of both Consuls.

Contio shall formally begin at 2:59 pm EST (8:59 Roman Time) Nov. 25, 2006 and shall conclude at 2:59 EST (8:59 pm Roman Time) on Nov. 30, 2006.

Voting shall commence 3:00 pm EST (9:00 pm Roman Time) Nov. 30, 2006 and shall conclude at 3:00 pm EST (9:00 pm Roman Time) Dec. 5, 2006.

Although a Century Praerogavita is not legislated as essential when sequential voting is not being used (as in the case of legislation), the Diribitores are nonetheless invited as they wish, to select and proclaim such a century in keeping with the religious significance of same.

Please contact the Censors at
Censores@... for voter code information


Below are five items for your consideration.

Valete

*****************




PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS


The following are proposed constitutional amendments. Their overall
objective is to implement a more historical approach to some of our
constitutional elements, and to bridge a greater consistency of our
constitutional language with that of our current judicial system.

Discussion of each is included below, where the Consuls felt it
would be helpful.

Appropriate Latin nomenclature will be pursued with regard to names for
these amendments should they be lawfully approved by the Senate and Populus
Novae Romae.

For easier reference, the complete text of the constitution may be found
here, for your convenience:
<http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Current_constitution_%28Nova_Roma%29>
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Current_constitution_%28Nova_Roma%29

The Consuls would like to thank the Senate for their counsel with respect to
these proposals.

Proposed changes between **** and *****
_________________________________

Item ONE: PROPOSED AMENDMENT I


Section II "Citizens and Gentes"


Clause 3 concerning the rights of citizens reads: "The right to vote in
elections as members of their various comitia on matters brought before the
People in such manner as described in the Constitution.....

PROPOSED CHANGE:*** The rights of the Iura Publica:
i. The right to vote in elections as members of their various comitia on
matters brought before the People in such manner as described in this
constitution and pursuant laws.

ii. The right to candidate for public office where eligible, as determined
by this constitution and pursuant laws.****

__________________________________________

Item TWO: PROPOSED AMENDMENT II



II 'Citizens and Gentes" Section B

Clause 5 concerning the right of Provocatio currently reads "The right of
provocatio: to appeal the decision of a magistrate that has a direct
negative impact on that citizen to the Comitia Populi Tributa".

PROPOSED CHANGE:*** The right of Provocatio ad populum: to appeal a loss of
citizenship (exactio) to the Comitia Centuriata.

(And in a separate clause)...The right of Apellatio:

i) to appeal a magisterial decision which has a direct negative impact on
that citizen to the Comitia Populi Tributa, such appeal may not be denied
by the magistrate against whom the appeal is made.
ii) to appeal a court decision (sententia) not involving loss of
citizenship to the Comitia Populi Tributa, or optionally in the case of a
citizen of the Plebian Order, to the Comitia Plebis Tributa.*****


___________________________________________



Item THREE: PROPOSED AMENDMENT III

II Section B 'Comitia Centuriata'

From 3 (concerning the Comitia Centuriata) the Constitution
currently reads:"to try legal cases in which the defendant is subject to
permanent removal of citizenship"

*PROPOSED CHANGE: ****to render verdicts in appeals of Provocatio ad populum in
which the defendant (reus) is subject to loss of citizenship.****

ALSO PROPOSED are corresponding changes to the pertinent language regarding the remaining two comitia, to wit:

Clause 3 concerning Comitia Plebis Tributa currently reads: "To try legal cases solely
involving members of the Plebian Order that do not involve permanent removal
of citizenship"...
PROPOSED CHANGE: **** " to render verdicts in appeals of court rulings
(sententia) by members of the Plebian Order which do not involve removal
of citizenship.*****

Clause 3 concerning Comitia Populi Tributa reads: " To try legal cases
that do not involve permanent removal of citizenship"
PROPOSED CHANGE:**** To render verdicts in appeals which do not involve removal
of citizenship.*****



Discussion: The changes of Amendment III above reflect a more historical role of
comitia in the judicial process and correspond more accurately with the
language of our NR judicial system as detailed in the leges Saliciae
Iudiciaria et Poenalis, links here:



http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-11-24-iii.html

*http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-ii.html*


Citizens of Nova Roma are tried by the Leges Salicia procedures and the
Iudices (judges) render a decison....Appeals of the decisions arising from
these proceedings, if any, are decided by the appropriate comitia as revised
above. We do not have a separate 'trial' system within each comitia as the
current constitutional language implies.

____________________________________________________


Item FOUR: PROPOSED AMENDMENT IV

IV Magistrates 1. 'Censor'

1. f. 1. reads "A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient
to deprive that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
removed "

PROPOSED CHANGE:" A nota against a citizen is sufficient to
deprive him of the Iura Publica until such time as the nota is removed".
(remainder of constitutional language of 1.f.1. to remain unchanged)

____________________________________________________



LEX FABIA BUTEO MINUCIA DE RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM

Preamble

This lex amends the Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum to provide a means of resolving tied centuries in a manner less dependent on lots, by giving more consideration to voting privilege of individual voters though enumeration of century points as a determining factor.

I. Sections V A 1. and Sections V C 1.a of the Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatum are repealed of their respective phrases 'ties being decided by lot' .


II. Current language of Section V.A 4 of the Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitium Centuriatorum is repealed, and amended as follows:

A Ties within a century shall be resolved by the Custodes as follows:

1. In the case of candidates for election, the individual century points of each voter shall be totalled for each candidate approved. The candidate showing the highest total of century point representation is considered to have won the century. If this method does not resolve the tie, then a fair method of decision by lot may be employed by the custodes.

2. In the case of legislation, the century points of those casting votes shall be tallied to reflect the totals of points being 'for' and 'against' the legislation. The greater total of century points will determine if the century is 'for' or 'against' the proposal. If this method does not resolve a tie, then a fair method of decision by lot may be employed by the custodes.

B.. In the case of trials, no decisions will be made using the procedure of II A 1 and 2. above.



For your convenience, a complete copy of the Lex Fabia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum may be found here:


http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2003-10-08-i.html


_________________FINI





---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aurelianus Lentulo sal.

Not all of the Tribunes that were appointed in Italia were in Rome. There
were some that were assigned to other cities in the Italian penisula.

There are a number of people on the ML that are not magistrates and some of
our assidui avoid the ML because they are affiliated with associated lists.
I am not an elected magistrate although I do serve as a provincial governor
and the flamen Cerialis.

I stay in contact with the ML because I do not want it to become the sole
dominion of those who want to become exclusively internet magistrates. Nova
Roma was formed as a micronation for the purpose of reestablishing the Religio
Romana and developing a limited form of an independent state. Those original
goals are not likely to happen if we stay overly attached to the original
forms of the original Roman Republic.

Nova Roma is not a micronation (i.e., fictional country) but is rather a
social and educational society whose administration is based on a model
republic. By adherence to the original republic, we have created some unnecessary
officers and by-laws. For example, we have a legal system that is not binding
on anyone who is involved and has led to some pretentious attempts of
individuals to bring charges of treason, slander, or libel against other members.
This is a d**n fool thing to have with an internet organization. The
Praetores are the moderators of the official NR lists and they should be able to
handle moderation without resorting to "show trials."

The Collegium Pontificum and the other Sacred Colleges have continued to
pursue reforms that would bring the Four Sacred Colleges more into a
historically correct relationship to the Sacred Colleges of Roma Mater. However, this
has its own set of foibles. We have a college of Fetiales, or priests who
acted as diplomats and ambassadors, who essentially have nothing to do. We do
not have diplomatic relations with other "micronations" nor do we go to war
with anyone (apart from ourselves). Why do we continue to have the Fetiales?
I don't know and cannot understand why we do not dissolve that college.

We also have a reform for the for establishment of a college for Epulones,
priests who were in charge of arranging public feasts for Dii Immortales.
Last time I checked, all of our games (ludi) are virtual reality and no public
funds are expended by the aediles or praetores to sponsor the ludi. The
Epulones also had some function in introducing the worship of new Gods into the
Republic. I could understand having two Epulones to assist the Aediles or
Praetores in assisting with the sacred aspects of the caerimoniae at the games,
but why do we need so many? Again, I do not know and cannot understand it.

We also have the Leaping Priests of Mars, the Lupercai, and the Arval
Brethren? I do not recall a single time that they have ever performed their sacred
function and no one has applied for membership in the Arval Brethren. When
I assisted with the provincial Lupercalia in February 2759, we had two young
men act as representatives of the two colleges of "wolfmen" run the race,
assist with the sacrifice (wicker goat), and ceremonially lashed those in
attendance (on their hands) for purposes of symbolic purification.

I have held only one office in the central administration--rogator. I
counted votes and helped resolve any ties by the casting of lots. A relatively
simple system that was not entirely historical but much easier to work than the
current system. I would be willing to run for the fifth tribune's post but
I am oathbound not to run for a central administrative office for the rest of
this year. As a Plebeian, the office of Tribune is vitally important and is
the only one that I would ever consider standing for election.

Nova Roma needs a good deal of reform that would combine historical
traditions with the realities of the 27th century after the founding of the City, but
there are too many individuals who are hidebound and determined to keep us
tied as tightly to the Rome of 575 AVC, as possible; in my opinion.

Vale.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Report of Senate Session

Tribunus Plebis Marcus Arminius Maior Patres Conscripti SPD


Senate Voting Results, published on a.d. VI Kal. Decembras MMDCCLIX
A.U.C., or 26 november 2006 AD.


The Senate was called to order on 16/Nov/2006 (2759 AUC).
The Contio was held on agenda items until 20/Oct/2006.
Voting on the agenda items was then held from 20/Nov/2006, 24:00 to
23/Nov/2006, 24:00 (time of Rome).

On 23th of November, the latest session of the Senate of Nova Roma was
declared closed by the Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo, in which 28 of
the 36 senatores voted, fulfilling the quorum needed for the session.


Here are the list of the voting Senators, alfabetically listed by nomen:

[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
[LAF] Lucius Arminius Faustus
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
[MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus
[PC] Patricia Cassia
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
[GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
[CFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
[CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
[GL] Gaia Livia
[LMS] Lucius Minicius Sceptius
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo
[MOG] Marcus Octavius Gracchus
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna
[LSA] Lucius Sergius Australicus
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus


The following senatores failed to vote in this
session:

[SAS] Sextus Apollonius Scipio
[MCS] Manius Constantinus Serapio
[CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
[TLF] Titus Labienus Fortunatus
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia


According to the Edictum Censorium of 17th October, Lucius Cornelius
Sulla Felix was excluded from the senate records and Senator Marcus
Moravius Piscinus Horatianus appointed to his place.


The items for consideration were as follows:

- * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

Item I: Publius Memmius Albucius is to be appointed Propraetor Gallia
Provincia.

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I'm very happy to give my vote for the appointment of
a very skilled gentleman. I'm sure he would lead Provincia Gallia as
well as possible
[LAF] Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Uti Rogas.
[MBA] Uti Rogas.
[MCJ] Uti Rogas.
[PC] Uti Rogas.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Uti Rogas.
[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. I have the greatest confidence for and big
expectations with this hardworking citizen.
[QFM] Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Uti Rogas.
[TGP] Uti Rogas. I strongly support this applicant and believe he will
do a very good job for us.
[MMPH] Uti Rogas.
[MIP] Uti Rogas. With all my best congratulations and thanks for his
dedication to Nova Roma.
[GL] Uti Rogas. I am sure he will do an excellent job.
[LMS] Uti Rogas.
[MMA] Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Uti Rogas.
[MOG] Uti Rogas.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Uti Rogas.
[GSA] Uti Rogas.
[JSM] Uti Rogas.
[LSA] Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Uti Rogas.
[ATMC] Uti Rogas.
[FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item I: Uti Rogas, 28; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 0.
Congratulations, Publius Memmius Albucius, Propraetor of Provincia
Gallia of Nova Roma.


Item II: Lucius Aurelius Severus is to be appointed Propraetor Canada
Orientalis.

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I don't know him directly but the reccomendations by
my colleagues are enough to vote him.
[LAF] Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Uti Rogas.
[MBA] Uti Rogas.
[MCJ] Uti Rogas.
[PC] Uti Rogas.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Uti Rogas.
[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. On the recommendation of Pompeia Minucia Strabo, the
present Proconsul and Consul, I support this candidate.
[QFM] Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Uti Rogas.
[TGP] Uti Rogas. This candidate has the support of his predecessor and
I defer to her judgment on this matter.
[MMPH] Uti Rogas.
[MIP] Abstineo.
[GL] Uti Rogas.
[LMS] Uti Rogas.
[MMA] Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Uti Rogas.
[MOG] Uti Rogas.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Uti Rogas.
[GSA] Uti Rogas.
[JSM] Uti Rogas.
[LSA] Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Uti Rogas.
[ATMC] Uti Rogas.
[FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item II: Uti Rogas, 27; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 1.
Congratulations, Lucius Aurelius Severus, Propraetor of of Provincia
Canada Orientalis of Nova Roma.


Item III: The Senate of Nova Roma approves the following Code of
Conduct, adopting its language as a basic policy of what the Senate
body believes to be an appropriate mimimum standard of conduct for its
individual members. A Senatus Consultum does not override the
Censors' authority in this regard, but the Censors are invited to take
this adoption into consideration in any decisions they face regarding
conduct of Senators.
(for complete text, see message:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/47453 )

[FAC] Uti Rogas. I strongly vote for this item, we need a code ruling
this August Chamber against unpolite and offensive actions. The
Sanatores would be the conscience of the Res Publica and a good
example for the Populus. I only would suggest to insert (maybe in the
laws) more detailed guidelines.
[LAF] Uti Rogas. With some observations: "support and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma" doesn´t mean the Senator will prevent
himself to make any critic and remark to the constitution he considers
worthy for the better follow of Nova Roma to the true Roman way.
[MAM] Abstineo.
[MBA] Abstineo.
[MCJ] ANTIQUO. This document is so vague it is absurd. It can give no
help to the Censors, nor appraise the Senators of any definable course
of conduct.
[PC] Antiquo.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Iterum ANTIQUO (a second time NO) "fere libenter homines id
quod volunt credunt".
[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. I supported this the last time it was proposed and
see no reason to not support it now. As Nova Roma is an international
organization with citizens from different cultures I think it is wise
to have a common ground to stand on.
[QFM] Antiquo.
[CFD] Antiquo.
[TGP] Antiquo. Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo suggested that some of us
needed to comment on this issue more and some of us have but the
proposal is as it was when first presented. No changes have been made.
[MMPH] Uti Rogas.
[MIP] Abstineo.
[GL] Antiquo. I do not believe that we need to adopt a 'Code of
Conduct' to define what constitutes reasonable behaviour - if someone
is considered worthy of being admitted to the Senate in the first
place then they don't need treating like a school child, and as this
proposal doesn't even have any real legal weight, it also seems like
an exercise in futility.
[LMS] Abstineo. I consider there is no need for a code to rule the
behaviour of people's speeches. On the other hand, any time someone
acts in a rude way, I feel compulsive to tell him about (Not off as a
kid). Therefore, it is a good chance for some people to check their
own behaviour that maybe inspired tha
[MMA] Uti Rogas. I have written of my approval of this measure to some
extent, since I believe it to be a measure that will help the Senate
in their deliberations. I believe that I have fully understood the
points made by other Senators, and having understood them agree with
some and simply disagree with others. I see no threat in this
proposal to any Senator who pursues an adult line of Courtesy in
manner and speech, nor do I see a "plot" for the taking over of the
Religio Romano. I do not embrace this measure with the idea of
forcing anyone to live or alter his / her manner in any way, but
rather to live up to the Oath that we all hold dear, and to smooth the
path of our deliberations with courtesy and consideration for another
view.
[PMS] Uti Rogas.
[MOG] Uti Rogas.It is sufficiently vague that it will allow the
Censores to exercise judgement, yet still provide good guidelines to
the Senators.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas. With thanks to those who have worked to put these
together.
[GPL] Antiquo.
[GSA] Abstineo.
[JSM] ANTIQUO. I've given arguments on both sides careful
consideration, and greatly appreciated the recitation by M. Horatius
Piscinus of Cato's advice, but cannot help but feel that, code of
conduct or no code of conduct, those who value civility will conduct
themselves according to their natures and those who do not will not be
guided by such a code.
In any case, however repellent I may find certain modes of expression,
I cannot do otherwise than defend individual's right to free speech.
[LSA] Antiquo.
[QSP] Uti Rogas.
[ATMC] ANTIQUO. This one was not an easy decision for me, but I can
understand the arguments against this item, and tend to agree with them.
[FVG] Antiquo (no).

Results of Item III: Uti Rogas, 11; Antiquo, 12; Abstineo, 5.
The proposal does not pass.


Item IV: The Senate approves the formal assignment of the State of
Hawaii, U.S.A. to California Provincia Nova Roma.

[FAC] ABSTINEO. It seems that Hawaii is yet in Provincia California.
In any way I vote abstineo because if on one side Hawaii would need a
provincia and maybe California is the best choose, on the other side
the current California is not able to manage this isles too.
[LAF] ANTIQVO. Future Consul Paulinus as some ideas about provinciae
reforms. I will make a vote of confidence on his work.
[MAM] Uti Rogas.
[MBA] Uti Rogas.
[MCJ] Uti Rogas.
[PC] Uti Rogas.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Uti Rogas. Since no actual Senatus Consultum has been found for
this matter, I've been advised that it wouldn't hurt to keep the item
on the agenda, in the interests of being legal and proper.
[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. This seems reasonable to me.
[QFM] Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Uti Rogas.
[TGP] Antiquo. I believe the historic record shows that this was
already done in 2753 (2000)
[MMPH] Antiquo.
[MIP] Uti Rogas.
[GL] Uti Rogas.
[LMS] Antiquo. I don't believe this will help too much. Learning from
my own mistakes, I would say that adding new territory to a existing
Province without getting from the people of such territory the will or
the knowledge about, changes nothing the new Province. Therefore,
better to wait and think about some other ways.
[MMA] ABSTAIN. If the Regio Hawaii is already assigned to the Province
of California, I see no reason to vote. If the Regio Hawaii is not
yet assigned to a given Province, then some detailed reasoning should
be submitted as to it's determination.
[PMS] Uti Rogas.
[MOG] Antiquo.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Uti Rogas.
[GSA] ANTIQVO. I see no point in incorporating any number of citizens
to a Province that has not shown any activity whatsoever for several
years.
[JSM] ANTIQUO. I believe that the individual living in Hawai'i
deserves our attention and support. However, I believe provincial
boundaries should not encompass territory so vast as to be
impracticable and I would like to see provincial reform address this
at some future date.
[LSA] Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Antiquo.
[ATMC] Uti Rogas.
[FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item IV: Uti Rogas, 18; Antiquo, 8; Abstineo, 2.
The state of Hawaii, USA, is confirmed as part of Provincia California
of Nova Roma.


Item V: Proposal withdrawn for revision.

[PMS] I've done a double-take, and I am having some reservations about
the current presentation of Item V. After seeking advice from my
colleague and a couple of veteran Senators, I've decided to take this
off the ballot. I would like to see the criteria for Senate approval
for constitutional amendments less constricting, but this scheme would
prove to be not constricting enough for my comfort level. If we can
work something out for next ballot we can revisit it, but for the
moment, I'm going to can it.

[TGP] While this item has been withdrawn for revision I wish my
comments part of the public record.
The Senate advises that the following proposal for constitutional
amendment should be placed before the Comitia Centuriata (note...this
is not an attempt to ask the Senate to 'pre- ratify a constitutional
amendment, but a request for advice as to the plausibility of going
further with the item)
I Constitutional Basis, Section A2 CURRENTLY READS: 'This
constitution may be amended by a Lex passed by the Comitia Centuriata
and approved by a vote of two-thirds of the Senate.
PROPOSED REVISION: 'This constitution may be amended by a Lex passed
by the Comitia Centuriata and approved by 2/3 of Senators voting on
the amendment. The current rules on a quorum state that two-thirds of
the Senate is needed to conduct business. That means at least twenty-
four of thirty-six Senators must be in attendance. If sixteen of the
twenty-four vote for an amendment, under the proposed rule it would
allow a minority of Senators to ratify constitutional amendments.
Currently twenty-four Senators are need.
Sixteen of the current thirty-six Senators is not a good idea. It
could even be fewer if the current rules on a quorum were to be
changed to say fifty percent plus one of the Senate. ( A change in the
current rules only requires a majority plus one). In this case
nineteen Senators would constitute a quorum and thirteen would be need
to ratify a constitutional amendments. Thirteen out of thirty-six
Seantors. Again not a good idea.


Item VI: The Senate appoints Marcus Octavius Gracchus as Magister
Aranearius (webmaster) Novae Romae 2760 AVC

[FAC] Uti Rogas.
[LAF] Uti Rogas. He is the best.
[MAM] Uti Rogas.
[MBA] Uti Rogas.
[MCJ] Uti Rogas.
[PC] Uti Rogas.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Uti Rogas.
[GFBM] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius Gracchus is an asset to Nova Roma
and I am pleased that he is willing to take on such an important task.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius Gracchus has always done a wonderful
job in this position when he has held it. I am grateful if he once
more takes this burden on his shoulders.
[QFM] Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Uti Rogas.
[TGP] Uti Rogas. We would be crazy not to except his service. His
willing to do a large amount of the grunt work is unmatched. He has my
sincere thanks.
[MMPH] Uti Rogas.
[MIP] Uti Rogas.
[GL] Uti Rogas.
[LMS] Uti Rogas.
[MMA] Uti Rogas. My thanks to Senator Octavius for all that he has
done, all the time he has spent, and all the finances donated to the
building of NR.
[PMS] Uti Rogas. My thanks to Marcus Octavius Gracchus for this, and
for all he's done for us in the past.
[MOG] Abstineo.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Uti Rogas.
[GSA] Uti Rogas.
[JSM] Uti Rogas. I have worked as Scriba to Marcus Octavius Gracchus
in the past and find his service to be exemplary in every way.
[LSA] Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Uti Rogas. I special thanks to Marcus Octavius Gracchus for
handling this big responsibility.
[ATMC] Uti Rogas. Marcus Octavius has for years done an excellent job,
and has the sincere thanks of this Senator.
[FVG] Uti Rogas (yes)

Results of Item VI: Uti Rogas, 27; Antiquo, 0; Abstineo, 1.
Congratulations, Marcus Octavius Gracchus, Magister Aranearius designati.


Item VII: The Senate recognizes Sodalitas Graeciae as an official
Sodalitas of Nova Roma.
(for complete text, see message:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/47453 )

[FAC] Uti Rogas. The greek culture is part of the Roman and Classic
Culture, the Greek was the common international tongue out the italica
peninsula, I don't see reason to refuse it and its studies.
[LAF] Uti Rogas. A good new indeed.
[MAM] Uti Rogas.
[MBA] Uti Rogas.
[MCJ] Uti Rogas.
[PC] Uti Rogas.
[GEM] Uti Rogas.
[LECA] Absto. I don't want to hinder citizens from that which they
desire, but I also don't understand why they need to have this in Nova
Roma.
[GFBM] Uti Rogas. I think it is important for the Senate to support
the interests of our citizens. I believe that this Sodalitas will be a
benefit to Nova Roma and I applaud those individuals spearheading the
project.
[CFBQ] Uti Rogas. If there are citizens who feel they want to do this
within Nova Roma I see no reason to stand in their way.
[QFM] Antiquo. This was a tough one. I want to give the Roman people
what they want, yet we should be studying Romans. Since I'm grounded
in the classics I understand exactly what the Hellenes did for
improving Rome, and later, a club such as this might be a benefit.
But right now I do not believe this, or a Keltic, or a Germanic club
would benefit Nova Roma.
[CFD] Abstineo.
[TGP] Uti Rogas.
[MMPH] Uti Rogas.
[MIP] ANTIQVO. I really don't see how this could make Nova Roma closer
to Ancient Rome; in my humble opinion a simple mailing list can
satisfy who want to chat about Rome and the Ellenic world without
being an official/recognized NR organization.
[GL] Uti Rogas.
[LMS] Uti Rogas.
[MMA] Uti Rogas. Several comments on this item were worthy of detailed
consideration. Certainly our focus in NR should be on the ancient
Roman Culture. However, much of what later became the Roman Culture
was adopted or combined from the Greeks. Many, if not most, of the
technical ideas to come to it's fuller development under the detailed
and consistent energies of the Romans came from the Greeks. Much of
Roman Philosophy was originated in the minds of the Greek world.
Finally as the Honored Consul has indicated, in Nova Roma new ideas,
and new citizens should be encouraged and not discouraged in their
efforts for the state.
[PMS] Uti Rogas.
[MOG] Uti Rogas.
[TOPA] Uti Rogas. The Romans recognised a lot of their higher culture
derived from the Greek, why should not we?
[GPL] Uti Rogas.
[GSA] Uti Rogas.
[JSM] Uti Rogas.
[LSA] Antiquo.
[QSP] Uti Rogas. Greek was indeed the universal language of the Roman
Empire. Music to art came to the Romans from the Greek culture. I
recall that no Roman magistrate got provincial postings ie overseas
positions without being fluent in Greek. I wish the best to all those
who wish to learn more about ancient Greek culture - especially the
language.
[ATMC] Uti Rogas. Another difficult decision. However, I believe that
this one is appropriate and so my vote reflects that belief.
[FVG] Antiquo (no).

Results of Item VII: Uti Rogas, 22; Antiquo, 4; Abstineo, 2.
Sodalitas Graeciae is now an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma.



Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Tribunus Plebis

Pompeia Minucia Strabo Consul Quiritibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

The following magisterial positions for 2760 remain vacant and candidates are welcomed until Dec 10/06 6 pm EST (midnight Roman Time):

Quaestores - 4 positions available

Rogatores - 2 positions available

Diribitores - 2 positions available

Editor Commentoriorum (Editor of Aquila) - one position

Qualifications for all of the above are as follows:

Must be 21 years of age
Must be a full citizen (not a provisional citizen)
Must be one of the assiduis (taxpayers)

I will permit those candidating for the above offices who have not paid their taxes for 2759 to do so until December 10/06, 6 pm EST, midnight Roman time.

Please submit your intention to run to Consuls@..., confirming what position you are candidating for, and that you meet the necessary qualifications.

Gratias et valete




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