Salvete

Better in my opinion to move this whole enterprise to the NR Wiki.
Make an article and use the Talk page to discuss issues. Do phonology
in real IPA, not an ASCII variant.

Optime valete

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica A. Liburnio T. Iulio Sabino quiritibus, sociis,
> > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > A. Liburnius Ti. Iulio omnibusque SPD
> >
> > Just to simplify the orthographic cacophony, I would propose that we
> > start using the ASCII SAMPA notation system as proposed by the
> > International Phonetic Alphabet.
> >
> > ATS: I seriously doubt that the IPA would survive a trip

across Yahoo

> > land, given the extreme difficulty we are having in my online

Greek course in

> > getting a simple, supposedly universal, Greek font to arrive in

legible form.

> > Moreover, apart from French speakers and scholars of French, very

few people

> > are truly familiar with the IPA...just about every French textbook

I have ever

> > seen has a chart of the IPA, but other language texts seem to do

very well

> > without it, and linguistics texts often use other notation.
> >
> >
> >
> > A chart with appropriate
> > explanations can be found at:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart
> >
> > The chart indicates where a sound originates in the mouth and which
> > sounds are the closest. It is intended for international usage,
> > eventhough the chart claims to be English only. I hope it may help
> > reduce some of the misunderstandings.
> >
> > Tite, as a curiosity, when was the Roman Alphabet introduced in
> > Romania and how was Latin written in Cyrillic?
> >
> > ATS: A little side note: Ti. is the abbreviation for

Tiberius; T. is

> > that for Titus, and it is not considered polite to address persons

who are not

> > one¹s family members, etc., by the praenomen alone.
> >
> > Vale atque Valete
> > A. Liburnius
>
> Valete.
> >
> > -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Titus

> > Iulius Sabinus"
> > <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > SALVETE!
> >> >
> >> > Using my friend Albucius example I want to present you the latin
> >> > pronunciation from my area.
> >> >
> >> > So:
> >> >
> >> > 1. ce, ci, gi - from: cena, Cicero, frigidus are: cena, Cicero,
> >> > frigidus.
> >> >
> >> > 2. ti + vowel - from: amicitia is: amicitsia.
> >> >
> >> > 3. s, x - from ostium, Sextius are: ostium, Sextius.
> >> >
> >> > 4. t + ti + vowel - from Vettius is Vetius.
> >> >
> >> > 5. ngu + vowel - from lingua, sanguis are: lingva, sangvis.
> >> >
> >> > 6. qu + vowel - from quinque, aqua are: cvincve, acva.
> >> >
> >> > 7. ch, ph, th - from chorus, pulcher, philosophus, theatrum are:
> >> > horus, pulher, filo:sofus, teatrum.
> >> >
> >> > 8. ae, oe - from caelum, poena are: celum, poena.
> >> >
> >> > 9. au, eu - from aurum, Europa are: au:rum, Eu:ro:pa.
> >> >
> >> > 10. ll, rr, pp - from vallis, ferrum, oppidum are: valis, ferum,
> >> > opidum.
> >> >
> >> > These are from my son Crassus latin book. What type of latin is?
> >> >
> >> > VALETE,
> >> > IVL SABINVS
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,

> >> "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> >> > <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
> >>>> > > > 3) French Latin
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > C + E/AE/OE/I = "s"
> >>> > > Yes.
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > G + E/AE/OE/I = "j" like in French "Jean"
> >>> > > Most of the times, not not always (sometimes hard G or Dj)
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > TI + vowel = "si"
> >>> > > No : "ti" sliding on "tsi"
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > AE, OE = "e" like in "men"
> >>> > > Yes.
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > U = "ü"
> >>> > > Most, with exceptions ("ou")
> >>> > >
> >>>> > > > And some other particular details like ending -um is "om"
> >> > etc...
> >> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Kalendis Maiis; haec dies nefastus publicus est.


"You ask where I think the name of May comes from?
Its origin's not totally clear to me.
As a traveller stands unsure which way to go,
Seeing the paths fan out in all directions,
So I'm not sure which to accept, since it's possible
To give different reasons: plenty itself confuses.
You who haunt the founts of Aganippian Hippocrene,
Those beloved prints of the Medusaean horse, explain!
The goddesses are in conflict. Polyhymnia begins,
While the others silently consider her speech.
'After the first Chaos, as soon as the three primary forms
Were given to the world, all things were newly re-configured:
Earth sank under its own weight, and drew down the seas,
But lightness lifted the sky to the highest regions:
And the sun and stars, not held back by their weight,
And you, you horses of the moon, sprang high.
But Earth for a long time wouldn't yield to Sky,
Nor the other lights to the Sun: honours were equal.
One of the common crowd of gods, would often dare
To sit on the throne that you, Saturn, owned,
None of the new gods took Ocean's side,
And Themis was relegated to the lowest place,
Until Honour, and proper Reverence, she
Of the calm look, were united in a lawful bed.
From them Majesty was born, she considers them
Her parents, she who was noble from her day of birth.
She took her seat, at once, high in the midst of Olympus,
Conspicuous, golden, in her purple folds.
Modesty and Fear sat with her: you could see
All the gods modelling their expression on hers.
At once, respect for honour entered their minds:
The worthy had their reward, none thought of self.
This state of things lasted for years in heaven,
Till the elder god was banished by fate from the citadel.
Earth bore the Giants, a fierce brood of savage monsters,
Who dared to venture against Jupiter's halls:
She gave them a thousands hands, serpents for legs,
And said: 'Take up arms against the mighty gods.'
They set to piling mountains to the highest stars,
And to troubling mighty Jupiter with war:
He hurled lightning bolts from the heavenly citadel,
And overturned the weighty mass on its creators.
These divine weapons protected Majesty well,
She survived, and has been worshipped ever since:
So she attends on Jove, Jove's truest guardian,
And allows him to hold the sceptre without force.
She came to earth as well: Romulus and Numa
Both worshipped her, and so did others in later ages.
She maintains fathers and mothers in due honour,
She keeps company with virgins and young boys,
She burnishes the lictor's rods, axes, and ivory chair,
She rides high in triumph behind the garlanded horses.'
Polyhymnia finished speaking: Clio, and Thalia
Mistress of the curved lyre, approved her words.
Urania continued: all the rest were silent,
And hers was the only voice that could be heard.
'Once great reverence was shown to white hair,
And wrinkled age was valued at its true worth.
The young waged work of war, and spirited battle,
Holding to their posts for the sake of the gods:
Age, inferior in strength, and unfit for arms,
Often did the country a service by its counsel.
The Senate was only open to men of mature age,
And Senators bear a name meaning ripe in years.
The elders made laws for the people, and specific
Rules governed the age when office might be sought:
Old men walked with the young, without their indignation,
And on the inside, if they only had one companion.
Who dared then to talk shamefully in an older man's
Presence? Old age granted rights of censorship.
Romulus knew this, and chose the City Fathers
From select spirits: making them the rulers of the City.
So I deduce that the elders (maiores) gave their own title
To the month of May: and looked after their own interests.
Numitor too may have said: 'Romulus, grant this month
To the old men' and his grandson may have yielded.
The following month, June, named for young men (iuvenes),
Gives no slight proof of the honour intended.'
Then Calliope herself, first of that choir, her hair
Unkempt and wreathed with ivy, began to speak:
'Tethys, the Titaness, was married long ago to Ocean,
He who encircles the outspread earth with flowing water.
The story is that their daughter Pleione was united
To sky-bearing Atlas, and bore him the Pleiades.
Among them, Maia's said to have surpassed her sisters
In beauty, and to have slept with mighty Jove.
She bore Mercury, who cuts the air on winged feet,
On the cypress-clothed ridge of Mount Cyllene.
The Arcadians, and swift Ladon, and vast Maenalus,
A land thought older than the moon, rightly worship him.
Evander, in exile from Arcadia, came to the Latin fields,
And brought his gods with him, aboard ship.
Where Rome, the capital of the world, now stands
There were trees, grass, a few sheep, the odd cottage.
When they arrived, his prophetic mother said:
'Halt here! This rural spot will be the place of Empire.'
The Arcadian hero obeyed his mother, the prophetess,
And stayed, though a stranger in a foreign land.
He taught the people many rites, but, above all, those
Of twin-horned Faunus, and Mercury the wing-footed god.
Faunus half-goat, you're worshipped by the girded Luperci,
When their strips of hide purify the crowded streets.
But you, Mercury, patron of thieves, inventor
Of the curved lyre, gave your mother's name to this month.
Nor was this your first act of piety: you're thought
To have given the lyre seven strings, the Pleiads' number.'
Calliope too ended: and her sisters voiced their praise.
And so? All three were equally convincing.
May the Muses' favour attend me equally,
And let me never praise one more than the rest." - Ovid, Fasti V

"The Kalends of May saw an altar dedicated
To the Guardian Lares, with small statues of the gods.
Curius vowed them: but time destroys many things,
And the long ages wear away the stone.
The reason for their epithet of Guardian,
Is that they keep safe watch over everything.
They support us, and protect the City walls,
And they're propitious, and bring us aid.
A dog, carved from the same stone, used to stand
At their feet: why did it stand there with the Lares?
Both guard the house: both are loyal to their master:
Crossroads are dear to the god, and to dogs.
Both the Lar and Diana's pack chase away thieves:
And the Lares are watchful, and so are dogs." - Ovid, Fasti V



Today is the Kalends of May; dedicated to Maia the mother of Mercury
(whose name gives us that of the whole month), and the Lares
praestites. Among the Lares publici we have mention of Lares
praestites and Lares compitales, who are in reality the same, and
differ only in regard to the place or occasion of their worship.

The temple to the Lares is first mentioned in connection with a series
of prodigious events (106 BC):

"Amiterni cum ex ancilla puer nasceretur, ave dixit. In agro Perusino
et Romae locis aliquot lacte pluit. Inter multa fulmine icta Atellis
digiti hominis quattuor tamquam ferro praecisi. Argentum signatum
afflatu fulminis diffluxit. In agro Trebulano mulier nupta civi Romano
fulmine icta nec exanimata. Fremitus caelestis auditus et pila caelo
cadere visa. Sanguine pluit. Romae interdiu fax sublime volans
conspecta. In aede Larum flamma a fastigio ad summum columen
penetravit innoxia. Per Caepionem consulem senatorum et equitum
iudicia communicata. Cetera in pace fuerunt." - Iulius Obsequens 41

And it was part of the original pomerium of the City:

"Regum in eo ambitio vel gloria varie vulgata: sed initium condendi,
et quod pomerium Romulus posuerit, noscere haud absurdum reor. igitur
a foro boario, ubi aereum tauri simulacrum aspicimus, quia id genus
animalium aratro subditur, sulcus designandi oppidi coeptus ut magnam
Herculis aram amplecteretur; inde certis spatiis interiecti lapides
per ima montis Palatini ad aram Consi, mox curias veteres, tum ad
sacellum Larum, inde forum Romanum; forumque et Capitolium non a
Romulo, sed a Tito Tatio additum urbi credidere. mox pro fortuna
pomerium auctum. et quos tum Claudius terminos posuerit, facile
cognitu et publicis actis perscriptum." - Tacitus, Annals xii.24

("There are various popular accounts of the ambitious and vainglorious
efforts of our kings in this matter. Still, I think, it is interesting
to know accurately the original plan of the precinct, as it was fixed
by Romulus. From the ox market, where we see the brazen statue of a
bull, because that animal is yoked to the plough, a furrow was drawn
to mark out the town, so as to embrace the great altar of Hercules;
then, at regular intervals, stones were placed along the foot of the
Palatine hill to the altar of Consus, soon afterwards, to the old
Courts, and then to the chapel of the Lares. The Roman forum and the
Capitol were not, it was supposed, added to the city by Romulus, but
by Titus Tatius. In time, the precinct was enlarged with the growth of
Rome's fortunes. The boundaries now fixed by Claudius may be easily
recognized, as they are specified in the public records.")

Servius Tullius is said to have instituted their worship; and when
Augustus improved the regulations of the city made by that king, he
also renewed the worship of the public Lares. Their name, Lares
praestites, characterises them as the protecting spirits of the city,
in which they had a temple in the uppermost part of the Via Sacra,
that is, near a compitum, whence they might be called compitales.
This temple (Sacellum La/rum or aedes Laruni) contained two images,
which were probably those of Romulus and Remus, and before them stood
a stone figure of a dog, either the symbol of watchfulness or because
a dog was the ordinary sacrifice offered to the Lares. Ovid says that
the figure of the dog represented Diana's protective pack.


"And Maia, the daughter of Atlas, bare to Zeus glorious Hermes, the
herald of the deathless gods, for she went up into his holy bed." -
Hesiod, Theogony 938

"He [Hermes] was born of Maia, the daughter of Atlas, when she had
mated with Zeus, a shy goddess she. Ever she avoided the throng of the
blessed gods and lived in a shadowy cave, and there the Son of Kronos
used to lie with the rich-tressed nymphe at dead of night, while
white-armed Hera lay bound in sweet sleep: and neither deathless god
nor mortal man knew it. And so hail to you, Son of Zeus and Maia." -
Homeric Hymn XVII to Hermes 3

"The oldest daughter Maia, after her intercourse with Zeus, bore
Hermes in a cave on Kyllene. Though he was laid out in swaddling-
clothes with her winnowing basket for a cradle, he escaped and made
his way to Pieria, where he stole some cattle that Apollon was
tending...Apollon learned who the thief was by divine science, and
made his way to Maia on Kyllene to charge Hermes. Maia, however,
showed Apollon the baby in his swaddling-clothes, whereupon Apollon
took him to Zeus and demanded his cattle." - Apollodorus, The Library
3.112

"The Pleiades" was the name given to the seven daughters of Atlas and
Pleione. Maia was the eldest of the daughters, and said to be the most
beautiful. Being shy, she lived quietly and alone in a cave on Mount
Cyllene, in Arcadia. Zeus, however, discovered the beautiful young
woman, and fell in love with her. He came to her cave at night, to
make love to her away from the jealous eyes of his wife, Hera. As a
result, Maia bore Zeus a son, Hermes.

When still an infant, Hermes stole some cattle from the god Apollo,
and hid them in his mother's cave. When Apollo stormed into Maia's
cave, she showed him the tiny baby to prove he could not have been the
cattle thief. Apollo was not fooled, however, and angrily appealed to
Zeus to punish Hermes. Zeus arbitrated by requiring Hermes to give
back the cattle. During the feud, baby Hermes played the lyre, and
Apollo was so enchanted by the music that he dropped the charges, and
even gave some of the cattle to Hermes, as well as other gifts.

Some time later, Maia helped Zeus when Hera had caused the death of
one of his other mistresses, Callisto, who had borne him a son, named
Arcas. Zeus ordered Hermes to give Arcas to Maia to raise as her own,
which she did. Arcas and Callisto were eventually placed in the sky,
becoming the constellations Ursa Major and Ursa Minor (Big and Little
Bear) to escape the wrath of the ever-jealous Hera.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Tacitus, Iulius Obsequens, Homer, Apollodorus, Hesiod, Smith's
Dictionary, Maia (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/maia.html)

Whether you regard Constantine as Christian depends on how you define a
Christian, and on why you are asking.

Properly speaking, Constantine was what Evangelicals today call a pagan
Christian. He believed in the Sun God, and he thought Christ was one.
That did not disturb the ancient mind the way it disturbs us today; in fact,
the people who wrote the entire nativity story of Mithras into the Gospel
accounts of Christ's birth hardly thought it was literally Jesus' personal
history. He claimed to have had one of those visions that enable major
shifts in religious affiliation, by noticing and making sense in a new way
of similarities in the mythologies of two competing religions; for example,
the Virgin of Guadeloupe. His vision showed that Apollo and Mithras were
now the Christ, and helped people believe that.

Constantine can hardly have been called a devout anything on a personal
level. He was crude, and unscrupulous, and ambitious, and he wanted a
faith that could unite his empire. He carefully nurtured and built the
Christian Church but may not have been a Christian on a personal level in
ways you or I would have been happy with. On the other hand, he clearly
believed in Christian doctrine on some level.

He was baptized on his death bed because he believed he had to be to go to
heaven. He thought if he were baptized earlier and committed any more of
the heinous sins he constantly committed for the sake of his ambition, he
could not go to Heaven. There wasn't no penitence involved, though
doubtless his bishop allies piously said there was.

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
tiggernut24@...

----- Original Message -----
From: cmcqueeny
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: True or False, Constantine was a Christian





--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.465 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM

EX OFFICIO PRAEFECTIS ITALIAE
Edictum VIII

L'Illustre Propraetor Titus Iulius Sabinus ha invitato i cittadini
novaromani residenti in Italia a visitare la Romania romana. Gaius
Aurelius Vindex ha accettato l'invito nel nome della fraterna
amicizia fra Dacia e Italia ed è ora in visita a Bucharest.

1. L'Illustre Gaius Aurelius Vindex è nominato Legatus pro tempore
fino al 10 maggio 2007 ed èautorizzato a rappresentare l'Italia e la
sua amministrazione nei rapporti diplomatici fra le due Provinciae.

Questo editto ha effetto immediato

This edict is effective immediately.

Datum sub manu mea Kalendis Mai MMDCCLX a.u.c. (1° maggio 2007)

Nel consolato di Lucius Arminis Faustus and Tiberius Galerius
Paulinus

-----------------------

Illustrus Propraetor Titus Iulius Sabinus invited the italian
novaromansto visit the roman Romania. Illustrus Gaius Aurelius
Vindex accepted the invitation under the freindship between Dacia
and Italia and now he's visiting Bucarest.

I. Illustrus Gaius Aurelius Vindex si appointed Legatus "pro
tempore" until May 10th 2007 and he's authorized to rapresent Italia
and its government in the diplomatic relations with Dacia.

This edict is effective immediately.

Datum sub manu mea Kalendis Mai MMDCCLX a.u.c. (April 19, 2007)

In the consulship of Lucius Arminis Faustus and Tiberius Galerius
Paulinus

FR.APVLVS CAESAR
Praefectus Italiae

M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus SPD


Consul Faustus has called the Senate to vote the following:

PREAMBLE

Recently, a contradiction has arisen about the real name a governor should have.

The "Senatus Consultum (XIX) : Standardization of Titles for Provincial Magistrates Adopted August 7, 2751)" (therefore called SC XIX) was appointed by Consul Faustus as being in contradiction with NR Constituion, by allowing the governors to be called as "Praetor" while NR Constituion and Roman History clearly states a Praetor is to be elected by the Comitia Centuriata. The Consul observed that in case of Contradiction, the Constituion should take precedence, so SC XIX was void. The Consul also warned SC XIX could cause lots of problems on our legal system, since NR has not a Poemerium to bound the ´macronational´ magistrates and the ´provincial´ magistrates. Consul Faustus observes SC XIX was ´dead letter´ until now and it is in contradiction with later leges, Senatusconsulta and edicta.

I see no better way than relying to the wiseness of the Senatores, since they approved the SC XIX for the very first time, and, in certain sense, giving power to it. As a Republican solution, the Senate is invited to solve the question voting on the proposal below to prepare us any further changes on our legal system. The Senatores
are invited to confirm SC XIX or to revoke it. The Senatores are invited to discuss deeply the question and ponder it with all their love for Nova Roma.

Past Consules had asked the Comitia and Senate to revoke approved laws and Senatusconsulta which interpretation could generate contradiction with the Constitution. So, it is a republican and democratic solution extensively being done by Nova Roma.

PROPOSAL

I. Should the SC XIX ("Senatus Consultum (XIX) : Standardization of Titles for Provincial Magistrates Adopted August 7, 2751)") be revoked due to its contradition with the NR Constituion, as stated by Consul L. Arminius Faustus?

Vote UTI ROGAS to revoke the SC XIX. Therefore, governors are to be called propraetores, and they will be called proconsules if the governor already was or is consul of Nova Roma.

Vote ANTIQVO to deny this proposal of revogation and keep SC XIX.

If Antiqvo wins, Consul Faustus will withdraw his objections listed above in obedience to the Senate. Until this Senate section is ended, Consul Faustus assumes the compromise to not use its constitutional prerrogative of Consular Intercessio against the uses of SC XIX in contradiction with the Constitution, according his interpretation.

***

Due to the nature of May, the Contio starts 5 May (to observe the notification period) and goes until 8 May. Days 9, 11, 13 and 15 are nefasti. So, although 10, 12 and 14 are comitialis, I prefer to start the voting on the continous Comitialis, ie, the voting starts 17 May and ends 20 May. A day will start at 0:00 Rome Time and will end at
23:59.

Contio: 5 (II. Ant. Id.) - 8 May (VII. Ant. Id.)
Voting: 17 (XIV. Ant. Kal. Iun.) - 20 May (XI. Ant. Kal. Iun.)

(Source: http://www.novaroma.org/calendar/maius.html)

The auspices were favourable, so I call the Senate to discuss and vote the matter above.

--
Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete, omnes.

I do not often post to the main list with my private beliefs and causes, but this one is exceptional, and urgent.

Because of the wolf who saved the lives of Romulus and Remus, all good Romans should honor all wolves, and should extend to them every compassionate service within our power. No matter our macronationality, we should feel the same emotional stake in the survival of wolves as we do in the survival of the imperial eagle. (See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aquilaheliaca/ )

Time is short. Please go to the following site today. Sorry; I don’t know how to make tinyurls; please make sure you copy-paste all parts of the URL into your search field.

https://secure2.convio.net/dow/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&page=UserAction&id=651&s_einterest=C3C4&JServSessionIdr007=oo87uzsxv4.app25a

Thank you for your time and attention. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Valete! Habitetis in luce deorum!
Volentia

Here is a link for reconstructed 3D images of Byzantine buildings if
your a fan of architecture you might like this :
http://www.byzantium1200.com/contents.html

Salvete omnes,

Everyone is invited to attend the Italian Street Festival, Rossini
Fest, this Saturday, May 5th, in Knoxville, TN. Mix, meet & mingle
with other romani, eat very well, and have a very good Saturday.

Nova Romans will be manning a booth in the Legio V Alaudae encampment
section for the event. We will be set up in the 200 Market Street area.

For more information, visit these websites:

Fifth Legion Website:
http://web.utk.edu/~cohprima/

Knoxville Opera's Rossini Fest Website:
http://www.knoxvilleopera.com/rossini/index.html

We hope to see you there, in or out of Roman dress.

Vale optime,
Triarius

Scaurus Quiritibus SPD.

This issue is more complex than has been suggested and is laden with
layers of hagiography which make it difficult to actually access the
form and content of Constantine's conversion. Certainly by the
mid-320s he was heavily invested in Christianity as a strategy of
regime stabilisation. The suggestion that Constantine saw Christ as a
sun god rests on a confusion between numismatic perseverance of the
Sol Invictus motif (which was military in nature sinced Aurelian and
probably did not reflect the personal views of the sovereign) and the
pollitical role of Christianity.

I confess that I find the canonisation of Constantine a tad ironic,
since there is no question that he died an Arian (he had already
exiled Athanasius) and, given the way that that heresy was
anathematised by later church councils, if the Christians are right,
he should be sweltering in hell. It's rather like polytheists
embracing Julian's hairbrained Hellenistic eclectism as if it had
anything to do with the Religio Romana.

Valete.

Scaurus

A. Hadrianus M. Hortensia Quiritibusque S.P.D

I apologize for the delay in replying, but a pesky thing, called
work, got in the way. The ASCII SAMPA alphabet uses only keys found
on any keyboard. Most letters are written as is, exceptions are
encapsulated in slashes, like this /. Stress is indicated by ["] for
primary stress, and [%] for secondary stress, placed before the
stressed syllable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart

The Florentine examples you cite, would be rendered as:
Citta = /S/itt"a
Chiamo = /C/i"amo
Giovane = /Z/"o/vane


Please note that the stressed o in 'Giovane' is short and that all
fricatives and palatals are pronunced very softly.
But, in my Venetian dialect, the stress and spelling would remain
the same, but the pronunciation would change to:

Citta = /ts/it"a
Chiamo = /tS/"amo
Giovane = /dz/"oane

Ugly, but not unworkable, and understood worldwide, particularly if
it is assumed that stress indicators are unnecessary.

As for the question of who 'speaks a phonetically better italian'
there are still debates. Fortunately we don't have a 'King's
Italian' to impose rules...

Vale atque Valete
A. Liburnius Hadrianus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia Cn. Lentulo Q. Valerio spd;
> Lentule, I'd forgotten a good example for you about varying
> pronunciation of letters & in Italian. Italians from the city of
> Florence, pronounce c, in città, like sh in shop, additionally
> the 'ch' in 'chiamo' is pronounced as 'ch' in loch, g
in 'giovane' is
> like 'j' in French 'journal.'
> Liburne, if someone can help me I'll make the example in
IPA,
> just don't know how to.
> I know this as my Italian professor, spoke this way & came
from
> an ancient papal family. In fact he passed his accent on to me &
when
> I was in Florence, was taken for a native. In private, he used to
say,
> that the Florentine accent was superior to the Roman, as the great
> creators of Italian literature, Petrarch & Dante, were Florentines.
>
> Callide, do you speak Esperanto? how interesting.
> bene valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Salvete!
> >
> > Anyone take into account pronouncing Latin at conversational
speeds?
> > Over time, the pronunciation might change.
> >
> >
> >
> > I find a similar situation with Esperanto.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Q. Valerius Callidus
> >
>

Salve Pontifex Scaure,

Last count there are about 10,000 saints in the RC church and I have
often questioned the irony of how some got there. As mentioned
Constantine is a saint in the Greek Orthodox Church and apparently
even Governor Pontius Pilate is a saint in the Coptic church.

As an analogy,all my life I have never figured how Joan Of Arc got
to be a saint.Christ did not encourage military solutions or
violence in problem solving and the Hundred Year War was before the
Reformation so the war was RC vs RC over keeping rulers in their
right place. As new ideas come to light, I cannot help but wonder
sometimes if Joan was a victim of that ergot wheat fungus which
conjured up hallucinations and other things.

Regards,

QSP






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose" <gregory.rose@...>
wrote:

>
> Scaurus Quiritibus SPD.
>
> This issue is more complex than has been suggested and is laden

with

> layers of hagiography which make it difficult to actually access

the

> form and content of Constantine's conversion. Certainly by the
> mid-320s he was heavily invested in Christianity as a strategy of
> regime stabilisation. The suggestion that Constantine saw Christ

as a

> sun god rests on a confusion between numismatic perseverance of the
> Sol Invictus motif (which was military in nature sinced Aurelian

and

> probably did not reflect the personal views of the sovereign) and

the

> pollitical role of Christianity.
>
> I confess that I find the canonisation of Constantine a tad

ironic,

> since there is no question that he died an Arian (he had already
> exiled Athanasius) and, given the way that that heresy was
> anathematised by later church councils, if the Christians are

right,

> he should be sweltering in hell. It's rather like polytheists
> embracing Julian's hairbrained Hellenistic eclectism as if it had
> anything to do with the Religio Romana.
>
> Valete.
>
> Scaurus
>

M. Hortensia Q. Suetonio;
actually I think the Orthodox version is Pilate converted.
But anyway Christians today aren't responsible for their historical
past. It's not facing these kinds of things that upsets me, I was
very sensitive about Cato's remark during Good Friday about the Jews
abandoning Jesus..
I don't think Cato even thought of it; but with the shock I had
about my father's family it made those words all too real. I want to
apologize to you, Cato and all the Christians here for my harsh
words. At the time I just wanted you to feel some of the hurt I had,
but that's wrong.
I have a close friend an Irish Protestant bishop & we discuss a
lot of these things.

I would say Christians today have the same situation in Muslim
countries, where they are persecuted, murdered & second-class
citizens. 3 Christian ministers were tortured & murdered by
fundamentalists, in Turkey just recently. Terrible.
bene vale
M. Hortensia Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.insualumbra.com/voxromana/

> Last count there are about 10,000 saints in the RC church and I

have

> often questioned the irony of how some got there. As mentioned
> Constantine is a saint in the Greek Orthodox Church and apparently
> even Governor Pontius Pilate is a saint in the Coptic church.
>
> As an analogy,all my life I have never figured how Joan Of Arc got
> to be a saint.Christ did not encourage military solutions or
> violence in problem solving and the Hundred Year War was before

the

> Reformation so the war was RC vs RC over keeping rulers in their
> right place. As new ideas come to light, I cannot help but wonder
> sometimes if Joan was a victim of that ergot wheat fungus which
> conjured up hallucinations and other things.
>
> Regards,
>
> QSP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose" <gregory.rose@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Scaurus Quiritibus SPD.
> >
> > This issue is more complex than has been suggested and is laden
> with
> > layers of hagiography which make it difficult to actually access
> the
> > form and content of Constantine's conversion. Certainly by the
> > mid-320s he was heavily invested in Christianity as a strategy of
> > regime stabilisation. The suggestion that Constantine saw

Christ

> as a
> > sun god rests on a confusion between numismatic perseverance of

the

> > Sol Invictus motif (which was military in nature sinced Aurelian
> and
> > probably did not reflect the personal views of the sovereign)

and

> the
> > pollitical role of Christianity.
> >
> > I confess that I find the canonisation of Constantine a tad
> ironic,
> > since there is no question that he died an Arian (he had already
> > exiled Athanasius) and, given the way that that heresy was
> > anathematised by later church councils, if the Christians are
> right,
> > he should be sweltering in hell. It's rather like polytheists
> > embracing Julian's hairbrained Hellenistic eclectism as if it had
> > anything to do with the Religio Romana.
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> > Scaurus
> >
>

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
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A Pacifist Roman?

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX
tiggernut24@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: True or False, Constantine was a Christian


Salve Pontifex Scaure,

Last count there are about 10,000 saints in the RC church and I have
often questioned the irony of how some got there. As mentioned
Constantine is a saint in the Greek Orthodox Church and apparently
even Governor Pontius Pilate is a saint in the Coptic church.

As an analogy,all my life I have never figured how Joan Of Arc got
to be a saint.Christ did not encourage military solutions or
violence in problem solving and the Hundred Year War was before the
Reformation so the war was RC vs RC over keeping rulers in their
right place. As new ideas come to light, I cannot help but wonder
sometimes if Joan was a victim of that ergot wheat fungus which
conjured up hallucinations and other things.

Regards,

QSP

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose" <gregory.rose@...>
wrote:
>
> Scaurus Quiritibus SPD.
>
> This issue is more complex than has been suggested and is laden
with
> layers of hagiography which make it difficult to actually access
the
> form and content of Constantine's conversion. Certainly by the
> mid-320s he was heavily invested in Christianity as a strategy of
> regime stabilisation. The suggestion that Constantine saw Christ
as a
> sun god rests on a confusion between numismatic perseverance of the
> Sol Invictus motif (which was military in nature sinced Aurelian
and
> probably did not reflect the personal views of the sovereign) and
the
> pollitical role of Christianity.
>
> I confess that I find the canonisation of Constantine a tad
ironic,
> since there is no question that he died an Arian (he had already
> exiled Athanasius) and, given the way that that heresy was
> anathematised by later church councils, if the Christians are
right,
> he should be sweltering in hell. It's rather like polytheists
> embracing Julian's hairbrained Hellenistic eclectism as if it had
> anything to do with the Religio Romana.
>
> Valete.
>
> Scaurus
>




----------

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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.465 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Nones Maius; haec dies fastus aterque est.

"When Hyperion's daughter puts the stars to flight,
Raising her light, behind her horses of dawn,
A cold north-westerly will smooth the wheat-tips,
White sails will put out from Calabrian waters.
And when shadowy twilight leads on the night,
No part of the whole herd of Hyades is unknown.
The radiant head of Taurus glitters with seven flames,
That Greek sailors named the Hyades, from `rain' (hyein):
Some think they nursed Bacchus, others believe
They're the granddaughters of Tethys and old Ocean.
Atlas was not yet standing there, his shoulders weighed
By Olympus, when Hyas, known for his beauty, was born:
Aethra, of Ocean's lineage, gave birth to him
And the nymphs at full term, but Hyas was born first.
When the down was new on his cheeks, he scared away
The frightened deer, in terror, and a hare was a good prize.
But when his courage had grown with his years, he dared
To close with wild boar and shaggy lionesses,
And while seeking the lair of a pregnant lioness, and her cubs,
He himself was the bloodstained victim of that Libyan beast.
His mother and his saddened sisters wept for Hyas,
And Atlas, soon doomed to bow his neck beneath the pole,
But the sisters' love was greater than either parent's:
It won them the heavens: Hyas gave them his name.
`Mother of the flowers, approach, so we can honour you
With joyful games! Last month I deferred the task.
You begin in April, and pass into May's span:
One claims you fleeing, the other as it comes on.
Since the boundaries of the months are yours,
And defer to you, either's fitting for your praise.
This is the month of the Circus' Games, and the victors' palm
The audience applauds: let my song accompany the Circus' show.
Tell me, yourself, who you are. Men's opinions err:
You'll be the best informant regarding your own name.'
So I spoke. So the goddess responded to my question,
(While she spoke, her lips breathed out vernal roses):
`I, called Flora now, was Chloris: the first letter in Greek
Of my name, became corrupted in the Latin language.
I was Chloris, a nymph of those happy fields,
Where, as you've heard, fortunate men once lived.
It would be difficult to speak of my form, with modesty,
But it brought my mother a god as son-in-law.
It was spring, I wandered: Zephyrus saw me: I left.
He followed me: I fled: he was the stronger,
And Boreas had given his brother authority for rape
By daring to steal a prize from Erechtheus' house.
Yet he made amends for his violence, by granting me
The name of bride, and I've nothing to complain of in bed.
I enjoy perpetual spring: the season's always bright,
The trees have leaves: the ground is always green.
I've a fruitful garden in the fields that were my dower,
Fanned by the breeze, and watered by a flowing spring.
My husband stocked it with flowers, richly,
And said: "Goddess, be mistress of the flowers."
I often wished to tally the colours set there,
But I couldn't, there were too many to count.
As soon as the frosted dew is shaken from the leaves,
And the varied foliage warmed by the sun's rays,
The Hours gather dressed in colourful clothes,
And collect my gifts in slender baskets.
The Graces, straight away, draw near, and twine
Wreaths and garlands to bind their heavenly hair.
I was first to scatter fresh seeds among countless peoples,
Till then the earth had been a single colour.
I was first to create the hyacinth, from Spartan blood,
And a lament remains written on its petals.
You too, Narcissus, were known among the gardens,
Unhappy that you were not other, and yet were other.
Why tell of Crocus, or Attis, or Adonis, son of Cinyras,
From whose wounds beauty springs, through me?
Mars too, if you're unaware, was brought to birth
By my arts: I pray unknowing Jupiter never knows it.
Sacred Juno grieved that Jupiter didn't need
Her help, when motherless Minerva was born.
She went to Ocean to complain of her husband's deeds:
Tired by the effort she rested at my door.
Catching sight of her, I said: "Why are you here, Saturnia?"
She explained what place she sought, and added
The reason. I consoled her with words of friendship:
She said: "My cares can't be lightened by words.
If Jove can be a father without needing a wife,
And contains both functions in a single person,
Why should I despair of becoming a mother with no
Husband, and, chaste, give birth though untouched by man?
I'll try all the drugs in the whole wide world,
And search the seas, and shores of Tartarus."
Her voice flew on: but my face showed doubt.
She said: "Nymph, it seems you have some power."
Three times I wanted to promise help, three times my tongue
Was tied: mighty Jupiter's anger was cause for fear.
She said: "Help me, I beg you, I'll conceal the fact,
And I'll call on the powers of the Stygian flood as witness."
"A flower, sent to me from the fields of Olenus,
Will grant what you seek," I replied, "unique, in all my garden.
He who gave it to me said: `Touch a barren heifer with this,
And she'll be a mother too.' I did, and she was, instantly."
With that, I nipped the clinging flower with my thumb,
Touched Juno, and as I touched her breast she conceived.
Pregnant now, she travelled to Thrace and the northern shores
Of Propontis: her wish was granted, and Mars was born.
Mindful of his birth that he owed to me, he said:
"You too must have a place in Romulus' City."
Perhaps you think I only rule over tender garlands.
But my power also commands the farmers' fields.
If the crops have flourished, the threshing-floor is full:
If the vines have flourished, there'll be wine:
If the olive trees have flourished, the year will be bright,
And the fruit will prosper at the proper time.
If the flower's damaged, the beans and vetch die,
And your imported lentils, Nile, die too.
Wine too, laboriously stored in the vast cellars,
Froths, and clouds the wine jars' surface with mist.
Honey's my gift: I call the winged ones who make
Honey, to the violets, clover and pale thyme.
I carry out similar functions, when spirits
Run riot, and bodies themselves flourish.'
I admired her, in silence, while she spoke. But she said:
`You may learn the answer to any of your questions.'
`Goddess', I replied: `What's the origin of the games?'
I'd barely ended when she answered me:
`Rich men owned cattle or tracts of land,
Other means of wealth were then unknown,
So the words `rich' (locuples) from `landed' (locus plenus),
And `money' (pecunia) from `a flock' (pecus), but already
Some had unlawful wealth: by custom, for ages,
Public lands were grazed, without penalty.
Folk had no one to defend the common rights:
Till at last it was foolish to use private grazing.
This licence was pointed out to the Publicii,
The plebeian aediles: earlier, men lacked confidence.
The case was tried before the people: the guilty fined:
And the champions praised for their public spirit.
A large part of the fine fell to me: and the victors
Instituted new games to loud applause. Part was allocated
To make a way up the Aventine's slope, then steep rock:
Now it's a serviceable track, called the Publician Road.'
I believed the shows were annual. She contradicted it,
And added further words to her previous speech:
`Honour touches me too: I delight in festivals and altars:
We're a greedy crowd: we divine beings.
Often, through their sins, men render the gods hostile,
And, fawning, offer a sacrifice for their crimes:
Often I've seen Jupiter, about to hurl his lightning,
Draw back his hand, when offered a gift of incense.
But if we're ignored, we avenge the injury
With heavy penalties, and our anger passes all bounds.
Remember Meleager, burnt up by distant flames:
The reason, because Diana's altar lacked its fires.
Remember Agamemnon: the same goddess becalmed the fleet:
A virgin, yet still she twice avenged her neglected hearth.
Wretched Hippolytus, you wished you'd worshipped Venus,
When your terrified horses were tearing you apart.
It would take too long to tell of neglect punished by loss.
I too was once neglected by the Roman Senate.
What to do, how to show my indignation?
What punishment to exact for the harm done me?
Gloomily, I gave up my office. I ceased to protect
The countryside, cared nothing for fruitful gardens:
The lilies drooped: you could see the violets fade,
And the petals of the purple crocus languished.
Often Zephyr said: `Don't destroy your dowry.'
But my dowry was worth nothing to me.
The olives were in blossom: wanton winds hurt them:
The wheat was ripening: hail blasted the crops:
The vines were promising: skies darkened from the south,
And the leaves were brought down by sudden rain.
I didn't wish it so: I'm not cruel in my anger,
But I neglected to drive away these ills.
The Senate convened, and voted my godhead
An annual festival, if the year proved fruitful.
I accepted their vow. The consuls Laenas
And Postumius celebrated these games of mine.
I was going to ask why there's greater
Wantonness in her games, and freer jests,
But it struck me that the goddess isn't strict,
And the gifts she brings are agents of delight.
The drinker's brow's wreathed with sewn-on garlands,
And a shower of roses hides the shining table:
The drunken guest dances, hair bound with lime-tree bark,
And unaware employs the wine's purest art:
The drunken lover sings at beauty's harsh threshold,
And soft garlands crown his perfumed hair.
Nothing serious for those with garlanded brow,
No running water's drunk, when crowned with flowers:
While your stream, Achelous, was free of wine,
No one as yet cared to pluck the rose.
Bacchus loves flowers: you can see he delights
In a crown, from Ariadne's chaplet of stars.
The comic stage suits her: she's never: believe me,
Never been counted among the tragic goddesses.
The reason the crowd of whores celebrate these games
Is not a difficult one for us to discover.
The goddess isn't gloomy, she's not high-flown,
She wants her rites to be open to the common man,
And warns us to use life's beauty while it's in bloom:
The thorn is spurned when the rose has fallen.
Why is it, when white robes are handed out for Ceres,
Flora's neatly dressed in a host of colours?
Is it because the harvest's ripe when the ears whiten,
But flowers are of every colour and splendour?
She nods, and flowers fall as her hair flows,
As roses fall when they're scattered on a table.
There's still the lights, whose reason escaped me,
Till the goddess dispelled my ignorance like this:
`Lights are thought to be fitting for my day,
Because the fields glow with crimson flowers,
Or because flowers and flames aren't dull in colour,
And the splendour of them both attracts the eye:
Or because the licence of night suits my delights,
And this third reason's nearest to the truth.'
`There's one little thing besides, for me to ask,
If you'll allow,' I said: and she said: `It's allowed.'
`Why then are gentle deer and shy hares
Caught in your nets, not Libyan lionesses?'
She replied that gardens not woodlands were her care,
And fields where no wild creatures were allowed.
All was ended: and she vanished into thin air: yet
Her fragrance lingered: you'd have known it was a goddess.
Scatter your gifts, I beg you, over my breast,
So Ovid's song may flower forever." - Ovid, Fasti V

Valete bene!

cato



SOURCES

I would add that Constantine was chastised by his
sister for having political rivals murdered after
publicly forgiving them, and setting them free
(forgiving enemies is the Christian thing to do).
He might have been a Nevo-Christian but he was also a
bit power hungry. As for political reasons for him
being Christian I recall (reading somewhere)that by
his time the Empire as a whole was 10-15% with most
being in the Cities, and after years of Civil war
(Rome was gutting itself every 10-15
years)Christianity was a untapped support base that he
would have needed.

Also I saw something on the three missionaries
(missionaries is kind of misleading since at least one
was a Christian Turk)killed in Turkey which mentioned
that one (of the three) was Jailed for handing out
Bibles earlier (either late last year or earlier this
year).Turkey is a secular nation but is it a crime to
hand out all religion,or the non Islamic
branches(think of this as a informal question).

--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> M. Hortensia Q. Suetonio;
> actually I think the Orthodox version is
> Pilate converted.
> But anyway Christians today aren't responsible for
> their historical
> past. It's not facing these kinds of things that
> upsets me, I was
> very sensitive about Cato's remark during Good
> Friday about the Jews
> abandoning Jesus..
> I don't think Cato even thought of it; but with
> the shock I had
> about my father's family it made those words all too
> real. I want to
> apologize to you, Cato and all the Christians here
> for my harsh
> words. At the time I just wanted you to feel some of
> the hurt I had,
> but that's wrong.
> I have a close friend an Irish Protestant bishop
> & we discuss a
> lot of these things.
>
> I would say Christians today have the same
> situation in Muslim
> countries, where they are persecuted, murdered &
> second-class
> citizens. 3 Christian ministers were tortured &
> murdered by
> fundamentalists, in Turkey just recently. Terrible.
> bene vale
> M. Hortensia Maior
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
>
> http://www.insualumbra.com/voxromana/
>
> > Last count there are about 10,000 saints in the RC
> church and I
> have
> > often questioned the irony of how some got there.
> As mentioned
> > Constantine is a saint in the Greek Orthodox
> Church and apparently
> > even Governor Pontius Pilate is a saint in the
> Coptic church.
> >
> > As an analogy,all my life I have never figured how
> Joan Of Arc got
> > to be a saint.Christ did not encourage military
> solutions or
> > violence in problem solving and the Hundred Year
> War was before
> the
> > Reformation so the war was RC vs RC over keeping
> rulers in their
> > right place. As new ideas come to light, I cannot
> help but wonder
> > sometimes if Joan was a victim of that ergot wheat
> fungus which
> > conjured up hallucinations and other things.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > QSP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory Rose"
> <gregory.rose@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Scaurus Quiritibus SPD.
> > >
> > > This issue is more complex than has been
> suggested and is laden
> > with
> > > layers of hagiography which make it difficult to
> actually access
> > the
> > > form and content of Constantine's conversion.
> Certainly by the
> > > mid-320s he was heavily invested in Christianity
> as a strategy of
> > > regime stabilisation. The suggestion that
> Constantine saw
> Christ
> > as a
> > > sun god rests on a confusion between numismatic
> perseverance of
> the
> > > Sol Invictus motif (which was military in nature
> sinced Aurelian
> > and
> > > probably did not reflect the personal views of
> the sovereign)
> and
> > the
> > > pollitical role of Christianity.
> > >
> > > I confess that I find the canonisation of
> Constantine a tad
> > ironic,
> > > since there is no question that he died an Arian
> (he had already
> > > exiled Athanasius) and, given the way that that
> heresy was
> > > anathematised by later church councils, if the
> Christians are
> > right,
> > > he should be sweltering in hell. It's rather
> like polytheists
> > > embracing Julian's hairbrained Hellenistic
> eclectism as if it had
> > > anything to do with the Religio Romana.
> > >
> > > Valete.
> > >
> > > Scaurus
> > >
> >
>
>
>

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Salvete omnes,

One question that pops up more and more on media shows and forums
regarding the rights of newcomers to my marco nation is that we bend
over backwards and even legislate protection for various groups and
minorities who settle here but would they do the same, IE go to bat
for any of us if we were in their country?

Hmmm, the situation metioned below will certainly not help Turkey's
case for entrance into the EUC unless the jailed are released and the
murderer's of the third chap are severely punished with lengthy jail
terms. As the current pope said, Europe and America bends over
backwards and allows mosques to be built and the existence of Islamic
schools so isn't about time the Islamic world reciprocates? Sigh,well
try and imagine what would happen to those unfortunates promoting the
Religio over there!

QSP

>
> Also I saw something on the three missionaries
> (missionaries is kind of misleading since at least one
> was a Christian Turk)killed in Turkey which mentioned
> that one (of the three) was Jailed for handing out
> Bibles earlier (either late last year or earlier this
> year).Turkey is a secular nation but is it a crime to
> hand out all religion,or the non Islamic
> branches(think of this as a informal question).
>

M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis Senatores Civibusque SPD

This message is to communicate the Senate my objections to this SC because
is in contradiction with our Constitution.

This SC says that ""The Senate may, by Senatus Consultum, create provinciae
for administrative purposes and appoint provincial governors therefor, who
shall bear such titles as the Senate may deem appropriate."

Thus the modification of the title of the governors, who belong to the group
of magistrates provided by the constitution, needs a Lex Centuriata. The
ruling of it by the Senate is therefore unconstitutional.

Added to that on the matter, the current system works well. The only
difference with history is the "propraetor" question, just because we are
not a State sending our officers in our provinces and so, being not able to
develop a pro-magistracies system.

But the term "governor" is appropriate and historic.

Furthermore, modifying this 'governor' title will :

. depreciate the function of current governors, at a time where the
Senate need every good will to have its action relayed in the provinces
because, any way we seize the problem, a "prefect" is generally seen as not
as important as a "governor";
. ask every concerned province an extra work, modifying all the titles
in internal pieces, in edicta, and in web sites. And we must not forget
that, in the provincial hierarchy, there are... "praefecti" and legati,
among others, which will ask us new edicta and the inscription of these new
edicta in all our information support, etc.

The Senate must revoke the SC and summon the Comitia to vote any
modification of the Constitution. In case of not acting this way we, the
Tribuni Plebis, will have the obligation to pronounce intercessio.

Curate ut valeate

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

Salvete

Since I consider SAMPA ASCII only a second best, I second the
motion.
We could even maintain an audio repository in MP3 format.
Question, amice Agricola, how do we get there?

Valete Omnes
A. Liburnius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
>
> Better in my opinion to move this whole enterprise to the NR Wiki.
> Make an article and use the Talk page to discuss issues. Do

phonology

> in real IPA, not an ASCII variant.
>
> Optime valete
>
> Agricola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@> wrote:
> >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica A. Liburnio T. Iulio Sabino quiritibus,

sociis,

> > > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A. Liburnius Ti. Iulio omnibusque SPD
> > >
> > > Just to simplify the orthographic cacophony, I would propose

that we

> > > start using the ASCII SAMPA notation system as proposed by the
> > > International Phonetic Alphabet.
> > >
> > > ATS: I seriously doubt that the IPA would survive a trip
> across Yahoo
> > > land, given the extreme difficulty we are having in my online
> Greek course in
> > > getting a simple, supposedly universal, Greek font to arrive in
> legible form.
> > > Moreover, apart from French speakers and scholars of French,

very

> few people
> > > are truly familiar with the IPA...just about every French

textbook

> I have ever
> > > seen has a chart of the IPA, but other language texts seem to

do

> very well
> > > without it, and linguistics texts often use other notation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A chart with appropriate
> > > explanations can be found at:
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart
> > >
> > > The chart indicates where a sound originates in the mouth and

which

> > > sounds are the closest. It is intended for international

usage,

> > > eventhough the chart claims to be English only. I hope it may

help

> > > reduce some of the misunderstandings.
> > >
> > > Tite, as a curiosity, when was the Roman Alphabet introduced in
> > > Romania and how was Latin written in Cyrillic?
> > >
> > > ATS: A little side note: Ti. is the abbreviation for
> Tiberius; T. is
> > > that for Titus, and it is not considered polite to address

persons

> who are not
> > > one¹s family members, etc., by the praenomen alone.
> > >
> > > Vale atque Valete
> > > A. Liburnius
> >
> > Valete.
> > >
> > > -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Titus
> > > Iulius Sabinus"
> > > <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > SALVETE!
> > >> >
> > >> > Using my friend Albucius example I want to present you the

latin

> > >> > pronunciation from my area.
> > >> >
> > >> > So:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. ce, ci, gi - from: cena, Cicero, frigidus are: cena,

Cicero,

> > >> > frigidus.
> > >> >
> > >> > 2. ti + vowel - from: amicitia is: amicitsia.
> > >> >
> > >> > 3. s, x - from ostium, Sextius are: ostium, Sextius.
> > >> >
> > >> > 4. t + ti + vowel - from Vettius is Vetius.
> > >> >
> > >> > 5. ngu + vowel - from lingua, sanguis are: lingva, sangvis.
> > >> >
> > >> > 6. qu + vowel - from quinque, aqua are: cvincve, acva.
> > >> >
> > >> > 7. ch, ph, th - from chorus, pulcher, philosophus, theatrum

are:

> > >> > horus, pulher, filo:sofus, teatrum.
> > >> >
> > >> > 8. ae, oe - from caelum, poena are: celum, poena.
> > >> >
> > >> > 9. au, eu - from aurum, Europa are: au:rum, Eu:ro:pa.
> > >> >
> > >> > 10. ll, rr, pp - from vallis, ferrum, oppidum are: valis,

ferum,

> > >> > opidum.
> > >> >
> > >> > These are from my son Crassus latin book. What type of

latin is?

> > >> >
> > >> > VALETE,
> > >> > IVL SABINVS
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > >> "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> > >> > <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
> > >>>> > > > 3) French Latin
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > C + E/AE/OE/I = "s"
> > >>> > > Yes.
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > G + E/AE/OE/I = "j" like in French "Jean"
> > >>> > > Most of the times, not not always (sometimes hard G

or Dj)

> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > TI + vowel = "si"
> > >>> > > No : "ti" sliding on "tsi"
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > AE, OE = "e" like in "men"
> > >>> > > Yes.
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > U = "ü"
> > >>> > > Most, with exceptions ("ou")
> > >>> > >
> > >>>> > > > And some other particular details like ending -um

is "om"

> > >> > etc...
> > >> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Alas, I was unable to find a bonafide prayer to Mars Ultor. But I still am
in quite a bind. Though there is no deadline for my assignment, it is
really quite important that I find some sort of prayer to Mars the Avenger.
If it is at all possible could somebody compose a prayer in latin to Mars
Ultor? I'm sorry for being so incessentally needy, I just seem to be having
no luck with the search what so ever.


Valete and thank you so much
Chuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia A.Liburnio M. Lucretio spd;
what a splendid idea I'm with you both Agricola and
Hadriane, it would be a great thing to have this repository at the
NRwiki.
M. Hortensia Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/

>
> Salvete
>
> Since I consider SAMPA ASCII only a second best, I second the
> motion.
> We could even maintain an audio repository in MP3 format.
> Question, amice Agricola, how do we get there?
>
> Valete Omnes
> A. Liburnius
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> > Better in my opinion to move this whole enterprise to the NR

Wiki.

> > Make an article and use the Talk page to discuss issues. Do
> phonology
> > in real IPA, not an ASCII variant.
> >
> > Optime valete
> >
> > Agricola
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> > <fororom@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A. Tullia Scholastica A. Liburnio T. Iulio Sabino

quiritibus,

> sociis,
> > > > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A. Liburnius Ti. Iulio omnibusque SPD
> > > >
> > > > Just to simplify the orthographic cacophony, I would propose
> that we
> > > > start using the ASCII SAMPA notation system as proposed by

the

> > > > International Phonetic Alphabet.
> > > >
> > > > ATS: I seriously doubt that the IPA would survive a trip
> > across Yahoo
> > > > land, given the extreme difficulty we are having in my online
> > Greek course in
> > > > getting a simple, supposedly universal, Greek font to arrive

in

> > legible form.
> > > > Moreover, apart from French speakers and scholars of French,
> very
> > few people
> > > > are truly familiar with the IPA...just about every French
> textbook
> > I have ever
> > > > seen has a chart of the IPA, but other language texts seem

to

> do
> > very well
> > > > without it, and linguistics texts often use other notation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A chart with appropriate
> > > > explanations can be found at:
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart
> > > >
> > > > The chart indicates where a sound originates in the mouth

and

> which
> > > > sounds are the closest. It is intended for international
> usage,
> > > > eventhough the chart claims to be English only. I hope it

may

> help
> > > > reduce some of the misunderstandings.
> > > >
> > > > Tite, as a curiosity, when was the Roman Alphabet introduced

in

> > > > Romania and how was Latin written in Cyrillic?
> > > >
> > > > ATS: A little side note: Ti. is the abbreviation for
> > Tiberius; T. is
> > > > that for Titus, and it is not considered polite to address
> persons
> > who are not
> > > > one¹s family members, etc., by the praenomen alone.
> > > >
> > > > Vale atque Valete
> > > > A. Liburnius
> > >
> > > Valete.
> > > >
> > > > -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Titus
> > > > Iulius Sabinus"
> > > > <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > SALVETE!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Using my friend Albucius example I want to present you

the

> latin
> > > >> > pronunciation from my area.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 1. ce, ci, gi - from: cena, Cicero, frigidus are: cena,
> Cicero,
> > > >> > frigidus.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2. ti + vowel - from: amicitia is: amicitsia.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 3. s, x - from ostium, Sextius are: ostium, Sextius.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 4. t + ti + vowel - from Vettius is Vetius.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 5. ngu + vowel - from lingua, sanguis are: lingva,

sangvis.

> > > >> >
> > > >> > 6. qu + vowel - from quinque, aqua are: cvincve, acva.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 7. ch, ph, th - from chorus, pulcher, philosophus,

theatrum

> are:
> > > >> > horus, pulher, filo:sofus, teatrum.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 8. ae, oe - from caelum, poena are: celum, poena.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 9. au, eu - from aurum, Europa are: au:rum, Eu:ro:pa.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 10. ll, rr, pp - from vallis, ferrum, oppidum are: valis,
> ferum,
> > > >> > opidum.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > These are from my son Crassus latin book. What type of
> latin is?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > VALETE,
> > > >> > IVL SABINVS
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > >> "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> > > >> > <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
> > > >>>> > > > 3) French Latin
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > C + E/AE/OE/I = "s"
> > > >>> > > Yes.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > G + E/AE/OE/I = "j" like in French "Jean"
> > > >>> > > Most of the times, not not always (sometimes hard

G

> or Dj)
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > TI + vowel = "si"
> > > >>> > > No : "ti" sliding on "tsi"
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > AE, OE = "e" like in "men"
> > > >>> > > Yes.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > U = "ü"
> > > >>> > > Most, with exceptions ("ou")
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>>> > > > And some other particular details like ending -um
> is "om"
> > > >> > etc...
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Hello group, I am selling this Roman silver figure on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AM\
ESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220107459616&rd=1&rd=1
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3A\
MESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220107459616&rd=1&rd=1>
Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Regards!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Liburnio T. Sabino quiritibusque S.P.D.

Thank you for your kind response.

Valete
A. Liburnius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

>
> SALVE ET SALVETE!
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus"
> <reenbru@> wrote:
>
> > Tite, as a curiosity, when was the Roman Alphabet introduced in
> Romania>>>
>
> It was used after the roman conquest until the IX - X century and
> reintroduced at the midlle of XVIX.
>
>
> and how was Latin written in Cyrillic? >>>
>
> I'm not accomodate with the subject. But I know your native

language

> importance about the subject.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>

Salvete Liburni et Sabine ;
I studied Russian in high school [gymnasium] and university. So I
can read Cyrillic easily. I'm going to the library this week so if you
have some kind of reference book I can tell you.
Maior

> > and how was Latin written in Cyrillic? >>>
> >
> > I'm not accomodate with the subject. But I know your native
> language
> > importance about the subject.
> >
> > VALETE,
> > IVL SABINVS
> >
>

Ex officio C. Equitius Cato A Tullia Scholastica praetores

On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see below) be
lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
statement:

'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
governor...'

I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant then
any one else in the Senate.
II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts. The
war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius Maximus.

Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
"diminished"] and his Auctoritas reduced.

He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished for
his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
good name."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will therefore
be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the validity of
the actor's claim.

Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.

Gaius Equitius Cato
Aula Tullia Scholastica
Praetors

N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29

M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast what
he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
reputation, it is himself.
Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
charge of Calumniae.
M. Hortensia Maior

> On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
> actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
>
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+

>
> "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see

below) be

> lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
> statement:
>
> 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
> governor...'
>
> I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant

then

> any one else in the Senate.
> II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.

The

> war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
> graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
> resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius

Maximus.

>
> Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
> had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
> "diminished"] and his Auctoritas reduced.
>
> He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished

for

> his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
> Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
> good name."
>
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+

>
> This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
> iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will

therefore

> be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the

validity of

> the actor's claim.
>
> Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
> Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Aula Tullia Scholastica
> Praetors
>
> N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29
>

Salvete Minor Sabine quiritesque,

Minor, you may try to locate any religious text written in Romanian
between the tenth and the late nineteenth centuries.
Be prepared to possibly find only Greek texts written in Greek.
I suspect that the Romanian Ortohodox Church became autocephalic
only after Romania achieved independence in the late nineteenth
century. I don't know that for a fact, hence my question.

Valete
A. LIBVRNIVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Liburni et Sabine ;
> I studied Russian in high school [gymnasium] and university.
So I
> can read Cyrillic easily. I'm going to the library this week so if
you
> have some kind of reference book I can tell you.
> Maior
>
> > > and how was Latin written in Cyrillic? >>>
> > >
> > > I'm not accomodate with the subject. But I know your native
> > language
> > > importance about the subject.
> > >
> > > VALETE,
> > > IVL SABINVS
> > >
> >
>

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica praetrix M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritbus S.P.D.
>
>
> M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
> well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
> Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
> suit & the conversation was published here.
>
>
> ATS: Although the Senate list is restricted, it is an official list of
> Nova Roma, and we felt that we had no choice but to accept this petitio as it
> did not meet any of the qualifications for dismissal under the Lex Salicia
> Iudiciaria. I would have preferred not to publish the entire conversation
> here, and would appreciate a bit of a clarification to the Lex Iudiciaria as
> to whether the petitio must be separate from the editio, but we must now
> address other issues.
>
> The next step is that an index iudicum must be prepared by the relevant
> parties, and the procedure of whittling down the candidates for NR jury duty
> begun. Quod fiat, fiat.
>
> Maximus broadcast what
> he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
> reputation, it is himself.
> Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
> charge of Calumniae.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> Valete.
>
>> > On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
>> > actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
>> >
>> >
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +
>> >
>> > "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see
> below) be
>> > lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
>> > statement:
>> >
>> > 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
>> > governor...'
>> >
>> > I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant
> then
>> > any one else in the Senate.
>> > II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.
> The
>> > war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
>> > graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
>> > resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius
> Maximus.
>> >
>> > Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
>> > had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
>> > "diminished"] and his Auctoritas reduced.
>> >
>> > He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished
> for
>> > his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
>> > Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
>> > good name."
>> >
>> >
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +
>> >
>> > This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
>> > iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will
> therefore
>> > be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the
> validity of
>> > the actor's claim.
>> >
>> > Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
>> > Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
>> >
>> > Gaius Equitius Cato
>> > Aula Tullia Scholastica
>> > Praetors
>> >
>> > N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
>> >
>> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica A. Liburnio quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis, praesertim cybernautis, S.P.D.
>
> This raises an interesting question: is it possible to get sound files
> either on the wiki or the ML? I know we have them on Latinitas and various
> other lists, and I also know that my net connection does not allow me to send
> sound files directly, but could send a CD to Marinus or some other cybernaut
> moderator who does not live terribly far away IF we could upload such useful
> items. The pronunciation of Latin is important to many on this list as well
> as on Latinitas, and it would be nice if we could get Avitus, Lentulus, yours
> truly, etc., to read some passages and file them there for everyone¹s
> assistance.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> Salvete
>
> Since I consider SAMPA ASCII only a second best, I second the
> motion.
> We could even maintain an audio repository in MP3 format.
> Question, amice Agricola, how do we get there?
>
> Valete Omnes
> A. Liburnius
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "M.
> Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete
>> >
>> > Better in my opinion to move this whole enterprise to the NR Wiki.
>> > Make an article and use the Talk page to discuss issues. Do
> phonology
>> > in real IPA, not an ASCII variant.
>> >
>> > Optime valete
>> >
>> > Agricola
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
>> Tullia Scholastica"
>> > <fororom@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>>> > > > A. Tullia Scholastica A. Liburnio T. Iulio Sabino quiritibus,
> sociis,
>>>> > > > peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > A. Liburnius Ti. Iulio omnibusque SPD
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Just to simplify the orthographic cacophony, I would propose
> that we
>>>> > > > start using the ASCII SAMPA notation system as proposed by the
>>>> > > > International Phonetic Alphabet.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > ATS: I seriously doubt that the IPA would survive a trip
>> > across Yahoo
>>>> > > > land, given the extreme difficulty we are having in my online
>> > Greek course in
>>>> > > > getting a simple, supposedly universal, Greek font to arrive in
>> > legible form.
>>>> > > > Moreover, apart from French speakers and scholars of French,
> very
>> > few people
>>>> > > > are truly familiar with the IPA...just about every French
> textbook
>> > I have ever
>>>> > > > seen has a chart of the IPA, but other language texts seem to
> do
>> > very well
>>>> > > > without it, and linguistics texts often use other notation.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > A chart with appropriate
>>>> > > > explanations can be found at:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAMPA_chart
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > The chart indicates where a sound originates in the mouth and
> which
>>>> > > > sounds are the closest. It is intended for international
> usage,
>>>> > > > eventhough the chart claims to be English only. I hope it may
> help
>>>> > > > reduce some of the misunderstandings.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Tite, as a curiosity, when was the Roman Alphabet introduced in
>>>> > > > Romania and how was Latin written in Cyrillic?
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > ATS: A little side note: Ti. is the abbreviation for
>> > Tiberius; T. is
>>>> > > > that for Titus, and it is not considered polite to address
> persons
>> > who are not
>>>> > > > one¹s family members, etc., by the praenomen alone.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Vale atque Valete
>>>> > > > A. Liburnius
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Titus
>>>> > > > Iulius Sabinus"
>>>> > > > <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > SALVETE!
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > Using my friend Albucius example I want to present you the
> latin
>>>>>> > > >> > pronunciation from my area.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > So:
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 1. ce, ci, gi - from: cena, Cicero, frigidus are: cena,
> Cicero,
>>>>>> > > >> > frigidus.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 2. ti + vowel - from: amicitia is: amicitsia.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 3. s, x - from ostium, Sextius are: ostium, Sextius.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 4. t + ti + vowel - from Vettius is Vetius.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 5. ngu + vowel - from lingua, sanguis are: lingva, sangvis.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 6. qu + vowel - from quinque, aqua are: cvincve, acva.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 7. ch, ph, th - from chorus, pulcher, philosophus, theatrum
> are:
>>>>>> > > >> > horus, pulher, filo:sofus, teatrum.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 8. ae, oe - from caelum, poena are: celum, poena.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 9. au, eu - from aurum, Europa are: au:rum, Eu:ro:pa.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > 10. ll, rr, pp - from vallis, ferrum, oppidum are: valis,
> ferum,
>>>>>> > > >> > opidum.
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > These are from my son Crassus latin book. What type of
> latin is?
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > VALETE,
>>>>>> > > >> > IVL SABINVS
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> >
>>>>>> > > >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>>>> > > >> "Publius Memmius Albucius"
>>>>>> > > >> > <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > 3) French Latin
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > C + E/AE/OE/I = "s"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > Yes.
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > G + E/AE/OE/I = "j" like in French "Jean"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > Most of the times, not not always (sometimes hard G
> or Dj)
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > TI + vowel = "si"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > No : "ti" sliding on "tsi"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > AE, OE = "e" like in "men"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > Yes.
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > U = "ü"
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > > Most, with exceptions ("ou")
>>>>>>>> > > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>> > > > And some other particular details like ending -um
> is "om"
>>>>>> > > >> > etc...
>>>>>> > > >> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Minor Sabine quiritesque,

Minor, you may try to locate any religious text written in Romanian
between the tenth and the late nineteenth centuries.
Be prepared to possibly find only Greek texts written in Greek.
I suspect that the Romanian Ortohodox Church became autocephalic
only after Romania achieved independence in the late nineteenth
century. I don't know that for a fact, hence my question.

Valete
A. LIBVRNIVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Liburni et Sabine ;
> I studied Russian in high school [gymnasium] and university.
So I
> can read Cyrillic easily. I'm going to the library this week so if
you
> have some kind of reference book I can tell you.
> Maior
>
> > > and how was Latin written in Cyrillic? >>>
> > >
> > > I'm not accomodate with the subject. But I know your native
> > language
> > > importance about the subject.
> > >
> > > VALETE,
> > > IVL SABINVS
> > >
> >
>

Maior:

You're a lawyer in the macro-world? Me too, for what it's worth...

-Wes

In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:07:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
rory12001@... writes:




M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast what
he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
reputation, it is himself.
Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
charge of Calumniae.
M. Hortensia Maior

> On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
> actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
>
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+

>
> "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see

below) be

> lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
> statement:
>
> 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
> governor...'
>
> I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant

then

> any one else in the Senate.
> II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.

The

> war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
> graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
> resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius

Maximus.

>
> Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
> had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
> "diminished" "diminished"<WBR>] and his Auctor
>
> He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished

for

> his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
> Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
> good name."
>
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+

>
> This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
> iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will

therefore

> be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the

validity of

> the actor's claim.
>
> Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
> Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Aula Tullia Scholastica
> Praetors
>
> N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
>
> _http://www.novaromahttp://www.nhttp://www.novarhttp://www.http://_

(http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_(Nova_Roma))

>

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Aula Tullia,

"A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> writes:

> is it possible to get sound files either on the wiki or the ML?

I don't know how Marcus Octavius would feel about archiving them on the
website. They take up a lot of space, and he's paying for it. We could keep
some mp3 files in the files section of the Nova-Roma list, but it would count
against our total size allocation, which means the oldest posts would be
disappearing more quickly. We've already lost over 5000 of the earliest
posts to this mailing list, and we lose more every day as new posts come in.

> I know we have them on Latinitas

Yes, we do. I think the files section there is probably the best place for
them for now. Latinitas has at this point only used 12% of its allocated
space.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salvete Liburni et Sabine;
hmm, it has been difficult. The Romanian church became independent
in 1885'ish. But the liturgy was Slavonic.
So far I found 'Catehismul Lui Coresi -Fragmentul Todorescu-' in
a series 'Institutul de Linguistica din Bucuresti' "Texte romaesti
din secolul al XVI-lea/ 1982.
It seems the Latin alphabet was introduced in the 16th century,
the above catechism is Lutheran and seemingly in Romanian not Latin.
Sabine might know more.
I then found 'La romanite du roumain: Alexandru Graur
"Latinets oden i oster" Alf Lombard
but they don't look like they would have Latin language texts..
We have the big Institute of Linguistics of Bucharest series. I'll
send you a note, offline so you can scan the archive.
Maior

> Minor, you may try to locate any religious text written in

Romanian

> between the tenth and the late nineteenth centuries.
> Be prepared to possibly find only Greek texts written in Greek.
> I suspect that the Romanian Ortohodox Church became autocephalic
> only after Romania achieved independence in the late nineteenth
> century. I don't know that for a fact, hence my question.
>
> Valete
> A. LIBVRNIVS
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Liburni et Sabine ;
> > I studied Russian in high school [gymnasium] and university.
> So I
> > can read Cyrillic easily. I'm going to the library this week so

if

> you
> > have some kind of reference book I can tell you.
> > Maior
> >
> > > > and how was Latin written in Cyrillic? >>>
> > > >
> > > > I'm not accomodate with the subject. But I know your native
> > > language
> > > > importance about the subject.
> > > >
> > > > VALETE,
> > > > IVL SABINVS
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Wes;
I was..& gave it up to write mystery novels & sci-fi/fantasy;-)
but I love Roman law & check my name out: 'Hortensia' the daughter
of great Hortensius, the lawyer, hmm maybe you should join Nova Roma
& my gens, we need more lawyers in Gens Hortensia!!:)
Hortensia Maior

Maior:

>
> You're a lawyer in the macro-world? Me too, for what it's

worth...

>
> -Wes
>
> In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:07:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
> rory12001@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
> well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
> Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
> suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast

what

> he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
> reputation, it is himself.
> Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
> charge of Calumniae.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> > On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
> > actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
> >
> >
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> +
> >
> > "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see
> below) be
> > lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
> > statement:
> >
> > 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
> > governor...'
> >
> > I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant
> then
> > any one else in the Senate.
> > II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.
> The
> > war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and

the

> > graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens

mostly

> > resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius
> Maximus.
> >
> > Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements

has

> > had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to

say

> > "diminished" "diminished"<WBR>] and his Auctor
> >
> > He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be

punished

> for
> > his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
> > Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the

Senator's

> > good name."
> >
> >
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> +
> >
> > This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
> > iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will
> therefore
> > be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the
> validity of
> > the actor's claim.
> >
> > Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L.

Arminio

> > Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > Aula Tullia Scholastica
> > Praetors
> >
> > N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
> >
> >

_http://www.novaromahttp://www.nhttp://www.novarhttp://www.http://_

> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_(Nova_Roma))
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at

http://www.aol.com

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Mind if I IM or email you off-list?

-Wes

In a message dated 5/3/2007 1:31:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
rory12001@... writes:




Salve Wes;
I was..& gave it up to write mystery novels & sci-fi/fantasy;
but I love Roman law & check my name out: 'Hortensia' the daughter
of great Hortensius, the lawyer, hmm maybe you should join Nova Roma
& my gens, we need more lawyers in Gens Hortensia!!:
Hortensia Maior

Maior:

>
> You're a lawyer in the macro-world? Me too, for what it's

worth...

>
> -Wes
>
> In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:07:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
> rory12001@.. rory1200
>
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
> well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
> Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
> suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast

what

> he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
> reputation, it is himself.
> Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
> charge of Calumniae.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> > On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
> > actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
> >
> >
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> +
> >
> > "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see
> below) be
> > lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
> > statement:
> >
> > 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
> > governor...'
> >
> > I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant
> then
> > any one else in the Senate.
> > II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.
> The
> > war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and

the

> > graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens

mostly

> > resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius
> Maximus.
> >
> > Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements

has

> > had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to

say

> > "diminished" "diminished"<WBR>] and his Auctor
> >
> > He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be

punished

> for
> > his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
> > Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the

Senator's

> > good name."
> >
> >
>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> +
> >
> > This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
> > iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will
> therefore
> > be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the
> validity of
> > the actor's claim.
> >
> > Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L.

Arminio

> > Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > Aula Tullia Scholastica
> > Praetors
> >
> > N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
> >
> >

__http://www.novaromahttp://www.http://www.nhttp://wwwhttp://www.htt_
(http://www.novaromahttp//www.nhttp://www.novarhttp://www.http://_)

> (_http://www.novaromahttp://www.nhttp://www.novarhtt_

(http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_) (Nova_Roma))

> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************ **** **** ************<WBR>*********

_http://www.aol.http_ (http://www.aol.com./)

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensiae s.d.

My impression of slander and libel in American law has been that they're very difficult to
prove, as one must show that the offending party KNOWINGLY spoke or wrote something
falesly defamatory about the victim. Is that true? Is there a similar standard in our law?
For that matter, how can someone show in court that value judgements so subjective as
incompetency and arrogance are false? Can someone really be punished for slander/libel
merely for stating an honest opinion about the character of another? It's not as though
Quintilianus claimed that Maximus is a bankrobber or a traitor.

I urge my fellow Californianus to drop this matter. Let your dignitas stand for itself,
Quinte Maxime. If it is truly strong, the claims of no one may harm it.

Vale,
L. Iunius Bassus
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis

Ex Lege Salicia poenalis :
"14. CALVMNIAE (Libel and Slander):
Whoever is proven to have made to a third party a false and defamatory statement about a
person which has damaged the dignity or reputation of that person may be compelled to
make a DECLARATIO PVBLICA: the convicted reus shall then present a public retraction and
apology in order to restore the actor's dignity and reputation in one of Nova Roma's
official venues within thirty days of the official announcement of the sentence.
The convicted reus may be placed under moderation on Nova Roma's official
communications venues for a maximum period of six months. The messages of a citizen
under moderation may be censored; in those cases, the praetores shall publicly announce
the censoring of the message, and shall provide the original message upon request to
those magistrates entitled to use intercessio against the praetores' decision within twenty-
four (24) hours of their announcement."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
> well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
> Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
> suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast what
> he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
> reputation, it is himself.
> Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
> charge of Calumniae.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
>
> > On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
> > actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
> >
> >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++
> +
> >
> > "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see
> below) be
> > lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
> > statement:
> >
> > 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
> > governor...'
> >
> > I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant
> then
> > any one else in the Senate.
> > II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.
> The
> > war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
> > graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
> > resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius
> Maximus.
> >
> > Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
> > had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
> > "diminished"] and his Auctoritas reduced.
> >
> > He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished
> for
> > his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
> > Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
> > good name."
> >
> >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++
> +
> >
> > This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
> > iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will
> therefore
> > be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the
> validity of
> > the actor's claim.
> >
> > Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
> > Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > Aula Tullia Scholastica
> > Praetors
> >
> > N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29
> >
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem V Nonas Maius; haec dies fastus est.

"In less than four nights, Chiron, the semi-human
Joined to the body of a tawny horse, reveals his stars.
Pelion is a mountain facing south in Haemonian Thessaly:
The summit's green with pines, the rest is oak.
Chiron, Philyra's son, lived there. An ancient rocky cave
Remains, inhabited once, they say, by that honest old one.
He's thought to have exercised those hands, that one day
Sent Hector to his death, in playing on the lyre.
Hercules visited him, most of his labours done,
Only the last few tasks remaining for the hero.
You could have viewed Troy's twin fates, together:
One the young scion of Aeacus, the other Jove's son.
Chiron received young Hercules hospitably,
And asked him the reason for his being there.
He replied, as Chiron viewed his club and lion-skin, saying:
`The man is worthy of these weapons, the weapons of the man!'
Nor could Achilles, daringly, restrain his hands,
From touching that pelt shaggy with bristles.
While the old one handled the arrows, encrusted with poison,
A shaft fell from the quiver and lodged in his left foot.
Chiron groaned, and drew its blade from his body:
Hercules, and the Thessalian youth groaned too.
Though the Centaur himself mixed herbs culled
From Pagasean hills, treating the wound with ointments,
The gnawing venom defied his remedies, and its evil
Penetrated his body, to the marrow of his bones.
The blood of the Lernean Hydra fused with
The Centaur's blood, giving no chance for aid.
Achilles, drenched in tears, stood before him as before
A father, just as he would have wept for Peleus dying.
Often he caressed the feeble fingers with loving hands,
(The teacher had his reward for the character he'd formed),
And he kissed him, often, and often, as he lay there, cried:
`Live, I beg you: don't leave me, dear father!'
The ninth day came, and you, virtuous Chiron,
Wrapped your body in those fourteen stars." - Ovid, Fasti V

"The author of the War of the Gigantomakhai says that Kronos took the
shape of a horse and lay with Philyra, the daughter of Okeanos.
Through this cause Kheiron was born a kentauros: his wife was
Khariklo." - Homerica, Titanomachia Fragment 6 (from Scholiast on
Apollonius Rhodius 1.554)

"Peloreus took up Pelion with hightowering peak as a missile in his
innumberable arms, and left the cave Philyre bare: as the rocky roof
of his cave was pulled off, old Kheiron quivered and shook, that
figure of half a man growing into a comrade horse." - Nonnus,
Dionysiaca 48.77

"By nightfall they [the Argonauts] were passing the Isle of Philyra
[at the eastern end of the southern Black Sea coast]. This was where
Kronos son of Ouranos, deceiving his consort Rhea, lay with Philyra
daughter of Okeanos in the days when he ruled the Titanes in Olympos
and Zeus was still a child, tended in the Kretan cave by the Kouretes
of Ida. But Kronos and Philyra were surprised in the very act by the
goddess Rhea. Whereupon Kronos leapt out of bed and galloped off in
the form of a long-maned stallion, while Philyra in her shame left the
place, deserting her old haunts, and came to the long Pelasgian
ridges. There she gave birth to the monstrous Kheiron, half horse and
half divine, the offspring of a lover in questionable shape." -
Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 2.1231

"When Saturnus was hunting Jove throughout the earth, assuming the
form of a steed he lay with Philyra, daughter of Oceanus. By him she
bore Chiron the Centaur, who is said to have been the first to invent
the art of healing. After Philyra saw that she had borne a strange
species, she asked Jove to changed her into another form, and she was
transformed into the tree which is called the linden." - Hyginus,
Fabulae 138

"There is a Kentauros with only two of his legs those of a horse; his
forelegs are human. Next come two-horse chariots with women standing
in them. The horses have golden wings, and a man is giving armour to
one of the women. I conjecture that this scene refers to the death of
Patroklos; the women in the chariots, I take it, are Nereides, and
Thetis is receiving the armour from Hephaistos. And moreover, he who
is giving the armour is not strong upon his feet, and a slave follows
him behind, holding a pair of fire-tongs. An account also is given of
the Kentauros, that he is Khiron, freed by this time from human
affairs and held worthy to share the home of the gods, who has come to
assuage the grief of Akhilleus." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 5.19.8-9

"Herakles turned back the Kentauroi with a volley of fire-brands; he
sent arrows after the others and chased them as far as Malea. There
they took refuge with Kheiron, who, after the Lapiths had driven him
from Mount Pelion, settled on Malea. Herakles let loose an arrow at
the kentaroi as they huddled round Kheiron, which penetrated the arm
of Elatos and landed in Kheiron's knee. In horror Herakles ran to him,
pulled out the arrow and dressed the wound with a salve that Kheiron
handed him. The festering wound was incurable, however, and Kheiron
moved into his cave, where he yearned for death, but could not die
because he was immortal. Prometheus thereupon proposed Herakles to
Zeus, to become immortal in place of Kheiron: and so Kheiron died." -
Apollodorus, The Library 2.83-87

Kheiron (Chiron) was the eldest and wisest of the half-horse, half-man
Kentauroi but unlike the rest of the tribe he was an immortal rustic
god, a son of the Titan Kronos and a half-brother of Zeus. Kheiron
dwelt in a cave on Mount Pelion in Thessalia where he raised and
mentored many of the great heroes, including Jason, Peleus, Asklepios,
Aristaios and Akhilleus. He was once accidentally wounded by Herakles
with a Hydra-venom-coated arrow and unable to endure the pain
voluntarily relinquished his immortality and died. In recompense he
was given a place amongst the stars of heaven as the Constellation
Saggitarius, or some say Centaurus. Kheiron was usually depicted with
the full body of a man, from head to foot, robed and booted, with a
horse's body attached behind. This contrasted with the other Kentauroi
who were depicted without robes, and as fully equine below the waist.
According to some, he had two marine brothers, the Ikhthyokentauroi.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Homerica, Nonnus, Apollodorus Rhodius, Pausanius, Apollodorus,
Chiron (http://theoi.com/Georgikos/KentaurosKheiron.html)

Lentulus: Tulliae suae: salutem dicit:

>>> LENT.: "And this was so strong, firm and strictly conserved that from the 1st century BC to the 4th century BC
>
> ATS: Lentule, amice, do you perhaps mean from the 1st century BC

to the 4th century AD/CE? Your other comments seem to indicate this. <<<


Yes of course, I made a typo. :-)

Vale!



---------------------------------

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Cn. Cornelius Lentulus rogator et propraetor Pannoniae Fl. Claudio Aurelio sal.:

>>> After a gap of at least two years, I have decided to return to Nova

Roma. >>>


You are very wellcome in the New Rome! The prodigal sone has returned! :-) (Just a joke.) :-)

>>> I am able to write competently in Latin (Classical and

Ecclesiastical), Ancient Greek, and Modern Greek. >>>>


Then you have to join our Sodalitas Latinitatis! Nova Roma need very much more and more Latinists. Our long-term final goal is to build Latin speaker modern Roman community.

>>>> There are also certain caveats. I am a seminarian of the Greek

Orthodox Church, and hence cannot under any circumstances take a part
in Pagan rituals. >>>


And I am a Roman Catholic and also practice the ancient Roman religion. I can reconciliate them with my special ideology I call Harmonizm.


Cura ut valeas fideliter in Deo omnipotenti!


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M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD

SENATE VOTING RESULTS

The Senate was called to discuss the following proposed Agenda by the Consul Galerius Paulinus :

Item I The US State of Nevada is separated in to its own province.

The new province shall be called Nivosa

Item II Appointment of a Propraetor of California ( CA and HI)

Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

Item III

L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California

Item IV

The Province of Mediatlantica is reconfigured as follows

Province of Mediatlantica will consist of the following
US States

Maryland
Delaware
Washington, DC
Virginia

Province of Nova Eborica will consist of
New York State

Province of Pennsylvania
will consist of the US Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

Item IV Discussion

Senator Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus has made a suggestion that I believe has merit and one I support. That of making the election officials appointed and not elected.

Question:

Does the Senate believe that the it would be advisable to have the diribitors' and the custodes as appointed officers instead of as elected officials.

The idea is to have them nominated by the Consuls for staggered terms of two years, approved by the Senate and under the supervision of the Censores.

Item Annual Senatorial fee

The Senate being the supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma and serving as the repository of experience and wisdom in the affairs of State, the Senate sets an annual fee on the members of the Senate in the amount of _______. We do this to set the example for other Nova Romans to follow and to insure a minimum income for the state. The Senatorial fee is on top of any taxes imposed on all citizens or paid by a member of the Senate..

Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________
=================================================================================================
After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus the items I and IV were withdrawn, the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to reduce the size of our administrative areas to the size of a city but it is not an issue that can not wait further consultations".

Therefore only two items remain for a vote:

Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California
=================================================================================================

The Senate was call to vote with the following message of Consul:
"I am convening the Senate on a.d. VIII Kal. Mai (April 24 2760 AU.C) when the contio will commence until a.d. IV Kal. Mai. ( April 28, 2760 A.U.C.) when it will end. Voting will then commence and will end on pr. Kal. Mai. (April 30, 2760 A.U.C) . Once debate has concluded Senators will send their votes to the Senate list where the results will be tabulated and the Tribunes will report the results to the people of Nova Roma in accordance with our laws and customs. I will post an agenda after my colleague has had some time to weigh in on the draft."

The session was closed at the 11,59 PM Central European Summer Time (5:59pm EST)
==================================================================================================

Here is the list of the voting Senators:

TGP>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
GEM> Gn. Equitius Marinus
GPL> G. Popilius Laenas
PMS> Pompeia Minucia Strabo
GFBM> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
TOPA> Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
MOG> Marcus Octavius Gracchus
CFBQ> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
QSP>Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
CEC> C. Equitius Cato
MMPH> M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
LAF> L. Arminius Faustus
LECA> L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
CFD> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
CL> C. Livia
QFM> Q. Fabius Maximus
ATMC> Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
ATS> A. Tullia Scholastica
DIPI> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
MBA> Marcus Bianchius Antonius
GSA> Gn Salvius Astur
SAS> Sextus Apollonius Scipio
CCS> C Curius Saturninus
FAC> Fr Apulus Caesar
JSM> Julilla Sempronia Magna
MMA> M Minucius Audens
MIP> M Iulius Perusianus

==========================================================================================================

Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

TGP>Uti Rogas. I believe he is the better of our two candidates and will leave it at that. I request that the Tribunes include my full statement on Marcus Martianus Gangalius as part of their Senate report.

GEM> Uti Rogas
GPL> I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus speaks my thoughts exactly. I also wish to revise my vote as follows:
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: VTI ROGAS
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: Antiquo
PMS> antiquo
GFBM> Antiquo. After looking through the archives of the Main List and
reading how Gangalius handled his objections to Gens reform I wonder
how much respect he has for authority, namely the authority of the
senate. As a provincial governor he works for the senate, I have my
doubts that he will follow the will of the senate, instead following
his own. He does indeed have an impressive resume, but within Nova
Roma I have no positive image of him only inflammatory rhetoric and
that is all I have in which to judge him. Additionally, I am
disturbed that on the Gens Martiana website there is a page were
people can "apply" to join Gens Martianus -- citizenship approvals is
the task of the censors. If his way of getting around Gens reform is
to have non-Nova Romans in his Gens then I wonder if he will be trying
to recruit for his Gens or whether he will focus on recruitment for
Nova Roma. I just noticed this minutes before I cast my vote so there
is not time to research it, if it comes to light that this is not the
case then I will stand corrected. But the Gens Martiana "Application"
page makes NO reference to Nova Roma.

TOPA> Antiquo.
I have little reason to believe his demeanor has changed. California is
in need of positive leadership, which I believe not to be one of his
main attributes.

MOG> UTI ROGAS.

CFBQ> The text from the gens Martiana website made it easy to vote

ANTIQUO to Marcus Martianus Gangalius,

especially as I think his arrogant and disloyal behavior, that is
clearly shown below, don't make him suited to lead any Nova Roman
province.

At 20.12 -0400 07-04-28, David Kling (Modianus) wrote:

>Whereas Nova Roma's ever-growing list of onerous citizenship
>requirements has discouraged applicants to the gens Martiana from
>completing the citizenship process; and
>
>Whereas the gens Martiana was established in MMDCCLI ab urbe condita,
>anno Martis CCVII and was accepted by the Censors of Nova Roma, yet
>the Censors of Nova Roma now obstruct new citizens from joining the
>gens, effectively making the gens a closed one against its will and
>threatening its eventual extinction; and
>
>Whereas the current policy of the Censors of Nova Roma constitutes an
>ex post facto law to the disparagement of the principles of Roman
>justice, and violates the most basic human right, that of identity,
>such right being derived from jus naturale, which is recognized as a
>source of law in Roman jurisprudence;
>
>Therefore be it resolved that the gens Martiana, acting in the
>interest of its very survival as well as its liberty, declares said
>policy of the Censors of Nova Roma to be unjust and un-Roman, that the
>gens opens its membership to all people who profess any of the
>Mediterranean and European cultures that existed during the Republican
>and Imperial periods of classical Rome, and that no distinction shall
>be made among members of the gens as to their status in Nova Roma; and
>
>Resolved, that since the republic now discourages the growth of the
>gens Martiana, thus the gens is no longer obligated to encourage the
>growth of the republic, and indeed, the growth of the republic has
>become inimical to the interests of our gens and our constituent
>familiae, all mention of Nova Roma shall be removed from the Gens
>Martiana website.

QSP> QSP Abstenio , REVISED VOTE> I first abstained on both candidates but I have decided to revise my vote.
Personally I would like to have had QFM stay on as Proconsul in California
and I listed my reasons on a number of occasions. No provinces have grown in
great leaps and bounds and starting with myself, I feel that stones should
not be thrown in a glass house. We shall soon see if changing out QFM will
resolve anything there.> Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California

> Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California> QSP: UTI ROGAS

Some of us have lost it on a few occasions, were ready to throw in the towel
or strangle the administration (figuratively speaking) but came back and
accomplished things with great vigour. The past is the past and now is what
will count in my opinion. > Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California

> L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California > QSP - ABSTENIO>
> I also hope he'll be appointed as a Legate and in time should be groomed to

run for Propraetor. Meanwhile availability and transport are critical for
this job.
CEC> ANTIQUO
MMPH> Negas. I have no objection against candidatus Martianus; I simply
prefer that the other candidatus be given an opportunity for the
current year.
LAF> Antiqvo. I have nothing against him. But I must state my
preference of Bassus because I can testimony his capacity of work.
LECA> VTI ROGAS
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=173
I don't believe that anything I would say on Marcus' behalf would change the minds of those who oppose him. I will say that while many have quit for far lesser reason than he had to leave he stayed and has offered himself again for service. He has given us a very impressive resume and taken time to debate and defend himself in the Forum. I have not seen anything from the other candidate. I would have been pleased to see his resume. Also, I think that the Consules should have given us more information as to the candidates age, length of citizenship, service record during the contio. Does the other candidate still wish to be appointed? Or perhaps he sees the wisdom in taking a Legate position as a proper first step?
CFD> VTI ROGAS
CL> Antiquo.
QFM> VTI ROGAS
I wasn't going to vote in protest about the shabby way I was treated after spending the time, money and effort in keeping California viable. I was especially saddened by the fact most Senators here are sheep, unable to do nothing but follow the herd. Next time you want to know about me, ask me directly, don't listen to people who are my avowed enemies.
That said, people who do know me voted me to stay, and I'll not soon forget their kindness.

I have known Marcus Martianus Gangalius since I met him at Celebrate History in 1999. He is intelligent, grounded in history, a follower of the Religio, and has independence. He is the obvious choice.
He also never quit Nova Roma when he could have, he backed the wrong side in the Constitutional Wars and was censored for it. I only say that, because continuity is an important thing.
Yes, he was disappointed when his Gens was broken up. Who wouldn't be? But he has taken no loyalty oath that says he has to accept all of NR's changes. Keep that in mind when you read that proclamation. He is loyal to Rome unlike loudmouthed Senators here would like you to believe. Otherwise he would not have stepped forward when asked to do so.
ATMC: ANTIQUO.
ATS> Neither candidate is a perfect choice, but I have very serious reservations about this candidate in light of his behavior toward me and others as well as with regard to items drawn from the website of what he refers to as HIS gens. ANTIQVO.
DIPI> VTI ROGAS
MBA> antiquo
GSA> I vote against it. He does not seem to be cast off the right material to me.
SAS> ANTIQUO
CCS> Antiquo.

FAC> ABSTINEO

JSM> ANTIQUO

MMA> This vote is a difficult one to make between two candidates who have different attributes for taking on the position.
Personally, I do not care for Gangalious, or his actions and writings, nor do I particularly care for the great list of his qualifications. However those are personal feelings, and as a Senator should have no aspect in my voting.
Candidate Bassus seems a sincre young man without many ways to deal with his job, and California is not as easy to getaround in without personal transportation as is Britannia. Many wh have never visited Califiornia do not realize that. I too was disappointed that Senator Maximus was outed from this position, and Itend to think his reasoning was sound n his arguments against it. The current "discussion" over this partiular vote seems to support that view, and who should know better than he, who was the ProConsul there for years?
However, I personally hope that Senasoor Maximus will assist Gangulous in his duties, and if Bassus accepts a position as Legate, both of these aspects woud gofar to relieve my anxieties in regard to this vote.
Item 1-- Gangulous for Preator of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--YES
Item 2--Bassus for Praetor of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--NO I make this vote without makice toward any, and hope sincerely that my vote will see the provinc through the coming serious considerations of Nova Roma;

MIP> Abstineo

======================================================================================================

Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California

TGP>Antiquo I do wish that L. Iunius Bassus will be willing to serve an apprenticeship under Marcus Martianus Gangalius and if he does we will have two citizens eager to help California grow.
GEM> Abstiene
GPL> I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus speaks my thoughts exactly. I also wish to revise my vote as follows:
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: VTI ROGAS
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: Antiquo
PMS> vti rogas
GFBM> Uti rogas. For the record I don't consider Bassus a "croney" as has
been insinuated by Consul Paulinus who seems to think a vote for
Bassus is a vote for "cronyism," and I resent the implication. I have
no idea whether this young man will be successful, but I'm willing to
give him a chance and if he doesn't prove successful we find another
option.
TOPA> Uti rogas.
Though I don't know him personally, I will trust the recommendation of
several of my colleagues.
MOG> ANTIQUO, without malice; I vote instead for Gangalius, and
thank L. Iunius Bassus for his willingness to serve.
CFBQ> UTI ROGAS to L. Iunius Bassus as PROpraetor of California.
I will vote to give Provincia California a new governor. Bassus is
new as a a leader in Nova Roma and California and I am not sure that
he will be up to this task, but he wouldn't be the first citizen to
be given a fair chance to prove himself at this level. If he can do
it, fine and if not, the Senate will have to look for a new one next
year. But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
governor with a new one that is as arrogant and disloyal and who
hasn't proven himself either.
QSP Abstenio . REVISED VOTE> I first abstained on both candidates but I have decided to revise my vote.
Personally I would like to have had QFM stay on as Proconsul in California
and I listed my reasons on a number of occasions. No provinces have grown in
great leaps and bounds and starting with myself, I feel that stones should
not be thrown in a glass house. We shall soon see if changing out QFM will
resolve anything there.> Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California

> Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California> QSP: UTI ROGAS

Some of us have lost it on a few occasions, were ready to throw in the towel
or strangle the administration (figuratively speaking) but came back and
accomplished things with great vigour. The past is the past and now is what
will count in my opinion. > Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California

> L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California > QSP - ABSTENIO>
> I also hope he'll be appointed as a Legate and in time should be groomed to

run for Propraetor. Meanwhile availability and transport are critical for
this job.

CEC> UTI ROGAS
I particularly like this bit from the resolution on the gens Martiana
website:

"since the republic now discourages the growth of the gens Martiana,
thus the gens is no longer obligated to encourage the growth of the
republic, and indeed, the growth of the republic has become inimical
to the interests of our gens and our constituent familiae, all mention
of Nova Roma shall be removed from the Gens Martiana website."

I would be more impressed if he had figured out a way of not
mentioning the proper name of the Republic at all throughout, as
otherwise the resolution violates itself. When I was a boy, talk like
this would have seen him setting up a little house on some bleak
promontory overlooking the Black Sea.
MMPH> Uti Rogas.
LAF> UT ROGAS. I have much confidence on Bassus capacities.
LECA> Antiquo
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10303
I'm pleased that we have a choice, but I believe that Bassus should begin as a Legate as has been suggested, a fine idea.
CFD> Antiquo
CL> Uti rogas.
As a side note - considering that the only point which has been raised in criticism against L. Iunius Bassus is that he is a student without his own transportation - that was true of me when I took on the governorship of Britannia, so it is not impossible!
QFM> Antiquo
ATMC: VTI ROGAS.
ATS> VTI ROGAS.
DIPI> Antiquo
MBA> Uti Rogas
GSA> I vote in favour.
SAS> UTI ROGAS
However I hope they will be able to work together in good spirit.
CCS> Uti rogas.

FAC> ABSTINEO. I don't know this gentlemen.

JSM> UTI ROGAS

MMA> This vote is a difficult one to make between two candidates who have different attributes for taking on the position.
Personally, I do not care for Gangalious, or his actions and writings, nor do I particularly care for the great list of his qualifications. However those are personal feelings, and as a Senator should have no aspect in my voting.
Candidate Bassus seems a sincre young man without many ways to deal with his job, and California is not as easy to getaround in without personal transportation as is Britannia. Many wh have never visited Califiornia do not realize that. I too was disappointed that Senator Maximus was outed from this position, and Itend to think his reasoning was sound n his arguments against it. The current "discussion" over this partiular vote seems to support that view, and who should know better than he, who was the ProConsul there for years?
However, I personally hope that Senasoor Maximus will assist Gangulous in his duties, and if Bassus accepts a position as Legate, both of these aspects woud gofar to relieve my anxieties in regard to this vote.
Item 1-- Gangulous for Preator of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--YES
Item 2--Bassus for Praetor of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--NO I make this vote without makice toward any, and hope sincerely that my vote will see the provinc through the coming serious considerations of Nova Roma;

MIP> Abstineo
=================================================================================================

RESULTS OF ITEM II:

VTI ROGAS: 10
ANTIQVO: 15
ABSTINEO: 2

NOT PASSED

RESULTS OF ITEM III:

VTI ROGAS: 15
ANTIQVO: 8
ABSTINEO: 4

PASSED

The Senate appoints L. Iunius Bassus as Praetor of Provincia Californiae.

Optime Valete

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA
-------------------------------------------
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello out there;

Does anyone know of any websites where one can purchase Roman style clothing, especially authentic looking Togas. So much of the stuff you see for sale looks cheap, cheesy and totally unRoman, and more befitting of some 1950s sword-and-sandal Holltwood epic.

Vale,
G. Antonius Mulus




---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At the risk of totally getting off subject, I saw a
little media blurp that covered the issue of where do
you draw a line for "newcomers" rights There is a
former mosque in Spain (sorry cant recall the name but
its the famous one in South which was converted into a
church.Well there is a small movement to revert it to
a mosque (which isnt going over with the Catholics).
Since Christians are not allowed to pray at mosques
that were coverted from Churches. One of the Issues
(Im raising) is that Europe is trying to be a leader
in progressive thinking and its turning into in theory
we can can really do anything, which I doubt will work
in the long run. But this is another subject all
together.

back to the Constantine Christian or Dictator subject:



--- "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
<mjk@...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> One question that pops up more and more on media
> shows and forums
> regarding the rights of newcomers to my marco nation
> is that we bend
> over backwards and even legislate protection for
> various groups and
> minorities who settle here but would they do the
> same, IE go to bat
> for any of us if we were in their country?
>
> Hmmm, the situation metioned below will certainly
> not help Turkey's
> case for entrance into the EUC unless the jailed are
> released and the
> murderer's of the third chap are severely punished
> with lengthy jail
> terms. As the current pope said, Europe and America
> bends over
> backwards and allows mosques to be built and the
> existence of Islamic
> schools so isn't about time the Islamic world
> reciprocates? Sigh,well
> try and imagine what would happen to those
> unfortunates promoting the
> Religio over there!
>
> QSP
>
>
>
> >
> > Also I saw something on the three missionaries
> > (missionaries is kind of misleading since at least
> one
> > was a Christian Turk)killed in Turkey which
> mentioned
> > that one (of the three) was Jailed for handing out
> > Bibles earlier (either late last year or earlier
> this
> > year).Turkey is a secular nation but is it a crime
> to
> > hand out all religion,or the non Islamic
> > branches(think of this as a informal question).
> >
>
>
>

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I will tell you when I directed a church play, I wanted the original togas and other Roman textiles to look as authentic as possible. The best way to get this done is through a nice costume shop, or better a costumer at a community theatre in your area. This way you can get the material and the look you want, it is not the cheapest, but well worth it. There are Roman re-enactment groups that may be able to help in other Yahoo groups. Costumers are well versed in authenticity.

Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: centurion_4545@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 3 May 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Authentic Togas


Hello out there;

Does anyone know of any websites where one can purchase Roman style clothing, especially authentic looking Togas. So much of the stuff you see for sale looks cheap, cheesy and totally unRoman, and more befitting of some 1950s sword-and-sandal Holltwood epic.

Vale,
G. Antonius Mulus

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Salve G. Antoni;
you can buy one at LaWren's Nest, but if you join the new
sodalitas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas_Vestitorum_et_Sutorum/
they'll help you make your own. It's only a few stiches & the rest
drapes. This way you can buy the finest linen or wool & have
something utterly authentic. I can buy great linen for $17.00 a
yard, I just need one;-) & then a tiny [I don't sew] bit of sewing.
Maior

>
> Hello out there;
>
> Does anyone know of any websites where one can purchase Roman

style clothing, especially authentic looking Togas. So much of the
stuff you see for sale looks cheap, cheesy and totally unRoman, and
more befitting of some 1950s sword-and-sandal Holltwood epic.

>
> Vale,
> G. Antonius Mulus
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Frankly I find a large part of the subject highly disturbing. I myself am a believing Christian and nothing in the world could ever make me deny my faith and my Lord. HOWEVER, I find the modern-day lack of religious tolerance among many people nowadays as not only disturbing, but also dangerous. One of the many reasons I admire the ancient Romans was their live-and-let-live attitude towards different religious faiths. Instances of religious persecution arose only when a real - or perceived - threat to the mos maiorum from a particular mode of worship showed itself. Although religious persecution of any type should never be condoned, I believe that among the Romans it occurred far less than among other cultures then and now. In addition, although persecution of Christians and Jews did occur on several occasions, it occurred far, far less than Hollywood would have us believe. And so I say, Damn the ideologies and long live freedom!

AVE ATQUE VALE
G. ANTONIUS MULUS



William Cox <indyguy301@...> wrote: At the risk of totally getting off subject, I saw a
little media blurp that covered the issue of where do
you draw a line for "newcomers" rights There is a
former mosque in Spain (sorry cant recall the name but
its the famous one in South which was converted into a
church.Well there is a small movement to revert it to
a mosque (which isnt going over with the Catholics).
Since Christians are not allowed to pray at mosques
that were coverted from Churches. One of the Issues
(Im raising) is that Europe is trying to be a leader
in progressive thinking and its turning into in theory
we can can really do anything, which I doubt will work
in the long run. But this is another subject all
together.

back to the Constantine Christian or Dictator subject:

--- "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly)"
<mjk@...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes,
>
> One question that pops up more and more on media
> shows and forums
> regarding the rights of newcomers to my marco nation
> is that we bend
> over backwards and even legislate protection for
> various groups and
> minorities who settle here but would they do the
> same, IE go to bat
> for any of us if we were in their country?
>
> Hmmm, the situation metioned below will certainly
> not help Turkey's
> case for entrance into the EUC unless the jailed are
> released and the
> murderer's of the third chap are severely punished
> with lengthy jail
> terms. As the current pope said, Europe and America
> bends over
> backwards and allows mosques to be built and the
> existence of Islamic
> schools so isn't about time the Islamic world
> reciprocates? Sigh,well
> try and imagine what would happen to those
> unfortunates promoting the
> Religio over there!
>
> QSP
>
>
>
> >
> > Also I saw something on the three missionaries
> > (missionaries is kind of misleading since at least
> one
> > was a Christian Turk)killed in Turkey which
> mentioned
> > that one (of the three) was Jailed for handing out
> > Bibles earlier (either late last year or earlier
> this
> > year).Turkey is a secular nation but is it a crime
> to
> > hand out all religion,or the non Islamic
> > branches(think of this as a informal question).
> >
>
>
>

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> A. Tullia Scholastica Wesley quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
>
> Maior:
>
> You're a lawyer in the macro-world? Me too, for what it's worth...
>
> ATS: We have a number of attorneys among the citizens of Nova Roma.
> Fuscus and Albucius are among them; one of our finest young citizens, Cordus,
> is taking an intensive law course in England, and there are other attorneys
> among us as well. Maior is a graduate student in another field at present;
> she was an attorney in Ireland. Our citizens come from all walks of life,
> from astronomer Marinus to attorneys to teachers and professors to police
> officers to business people to just about anything you can think of. Maybe we
> even have a zoologist among us...
>
> -Wes
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Quam optime vale et valete.
>
> ATS
>
> In a message dated 5/2/2007 6:07:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
> rory12001@... <mailto:rory12001%40yahoo.com> writes:
>
> M. Hortensia praetoribus spd;
> well, speaking as a lawyer. None of us except those in the
> Senate knew of this exchange, until Q. Fabius Maximus started the
> suit & the conversation was published here. Maximus broadcast what
> he disliked to all & sundry. So if anyone has damaged Maximus'
> reputation, it is himself.
> Very ironic, since incompetance is at the heart of the
> charge of Calumniae.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>> > On a.d. III Kal. Maias, Quintus Fabius Maximus issued a petitio
>> > actionis to the praetors of the Republic, to wit:
>> >
>> >
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +
>> >
>> > "Senator Maximus request [sic] that charge of CALVMNIAE (see
> below) be
>> > lodged against Senator Quintilianus for the false and misleading
>> > statement:
>> >
>> > 'But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
>> > governor...'
>> >
>> > I. Q. Fabius Maximus is not incompetent. He is no more arrogant
> then
>> > any one else in the Senate.
>> > II. California declined in spite of Q. Fabius Maximus' efforts.
> The
>> > war in Mesopotamia with the deployment of the armed forces and the
>> > graduations from the Universities where Nova Roma citizens mostly
>> > resided, caused the decline, not any incompetency of Q. Fabius
> Maximus.
>> >
>> > Thus, Q. Fabius Maximus, because of these misleading statements has
>> > had his Dignitas dimensioned [sic - we believe he intended to say
>> > "diminished" "diminished"<WBR>] and his Auctor
>> >
>> > He demands, as is his right, that Senator Quintilianus be punished
> for
>> > his statements, and a apology be issued before the Senate to the
>> > Senator, by Senator Quintilianus in order to restore the Senator's
>> > good name."
>> >
>> >
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +
>> >
>> > This is formal notice that under the terms of the lex Salicia
>> > iudicaria, we are required to accept this petitio and will
> therefore
>> > be appointing iudices and forming a court to determine the
> validity of
>> > the actor's claim.
>> >
>> > Given under our hands a.d. VI Non. Mai. a.u.c. MMDCCLX L. Arminio
>> > Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.
>> >
>> > Gaius Equitius Cato
>> > Aula Tullia Scholastica
>> > Praetors
>> >
>> > N.B. - the lex Salicia iudicaria can be found here:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IV Nonas Maias; haec dies comitialis est.

"And why not admit that Fortune also retrieved the city in times of
the greatest danger? When [390 BC] the Gauls were encamped round about
the Capitol and were besieging the citadel,

'Baneful the plague that she brought on the host, and the people were
dying.' [Homer, Iliad i.10]

And as for the Gauls' nocturnal assault, though they were noticed by
none, yet Fortune and Chance brought about the discovery. Concerning
this assault of the Gauls it will perhaps not be unseasonable to give
some additional details, however briefly. After the great defeat of
the Romans at the river Allia, some in their flight found a haven in
Rome and filled the people with consternation and terror, and caused
them to scatter far and wide, although a few went to the Capitol and
prepared to stand a siege. Others, immediately after their defeat,
gathered together at Veii and appointed as dictator Furius Camillus,
whom the people in their prosperity and lofty pride had rejected and
deposed because he had become involved in a suit concerning the
appropriation of public property. But now, cowed and humbled after
their defeat, they were for recalling him, and offered to hand over to
him the supreme command, accountable to no one. Accordingly, that he
might not be thought to be obtaining office because of the crisis, but
in accordance with the law, and that he should not, as if he had given
up all hope for the city, be elected by soldiery in a canvass of the
remnants of the army, now scattered and wandering, it was necessary
that the senators on the Capitoline should vote upon the matter after
they had been informed of the decision of the soldiers. Now there was
a certain Gaius Pontius, a brave man, who, by volunteering personally
to report these resolutions to Senate on the Capitol, took upon
himself great danger. For the way led through the midst of the enemy,
who encompassed the citadel with sentries and palisades. When,
accordingly, he had come by night to the river, he bound broad strips
of cork beneath his breast and, entrusting his body to the buoyancy of
this support, committed himself to the stream. Encountering a gentle
current which bore him slowly down stream, he reached the opposite
bank in safety, and, climbing out of the river, advanced toward the
senate void of lights, inferring from the darkness and quiet that no
one was there. Clinging to the precipitous cliff and entrusting
himself to the support of sloping and circuitous ways and jagged
surfaces of the rock which would allow a foothold or afford a clutch
for his hand, he reached the top of the rock; he was received by the
sentries, and made known to those within the decision of the army,
band having obtained the decree of the Senate, he returned again to
Camillus.

The next day one of the barbarians was wandering idly about this
place, when he saw in one spot prints of feet and marks of slipping,
and in another the bruising and tearing off of the grass, which grew
on the earth of the cliff, and marks of the zigzag dragging and
pulling up of a body; and this he told to the others. They, thinking
that the way was pointed out to them by their enemies, attempted to
rival them; and waiting till the very dead of night, they made the
ascent, unnoticed not only by the sentinels, but also by the dogs
which shared guard duty and formed the outpost, but then were overcome
by sleep.

Rome's Fortune, however, did not lack a voice capable of revealing and
declaring such a great mischance. Sacred geese were kept near the
temple of Juno for the service of the goddess. Now by nature this bird
is easily disturbed and frightened by noise; and at this time, since
they were neglected, because dire want oppressed the garrison, their
sleep was light, and was made uncomfortable by hunger, with the result
that they were at once aware of the enemy as they showed themselves
above the edge of the cliff. The geese hissed at them and rushed at
them impetuously, and at the sight of arms, became even more excited,
and filled the place with piercing and discordant clamour. By this
the Romans were aroused, and, when they comprehended what had
happened, they forced back their enemies and hurled them over the
precipice. And even to this day, in memory of these events, there are
borne in solemn procession a dog impaled on a stake, but a goose
perched in state upon a costly coverlet in a litter." - Plutarch, "On
the Fortunes of The Romans" 11, 12

"While those who had taken refuge on the Capitol were still being
besieged, a youth who had been sent by the Romans from Veii to those
on the Capitol and had escaped the notice of the Gauls who were on
guard there, went up, delivered his message, and departed again by
night. When it was day, one of the Gauls saw his tracks and reported
it to the king, who called together the bravest of his men and showed
them where the Roman had gone up, then asked them to display the same
bravery as the Roman and attempt to ascend to the citadel, promising
many gifts to those who should make the ascent. When many undertook to
do so, he commanded the guards to remain quiet, in order that the
Romans, supposing them to be asleep, might themselves turn to sleep.
When the first men had now ascended and were waiting for those who
lagged behind, in order that when their numbers were increased they
might then slay the garrison and capture the stronghold, no mortal
became aware of it; but some sacred geese of Juno which were being
raised in the sanctuary, by making a clamour and at the same time
rushing at the barbarians, gave notice of the peril. Thereupon there
was confusion, shouting and rushing about on the part of all as they
encouraged one another to take up arms; and the Gauls, whose numbers
were now increased, advanced further inside." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" XIII.7

"While the Romans were in such throes, the neighbouring Tyrrhenians
advanced and made a raid with a strong army on the territory of the
Romans, capturing many prisoners and not a small amount of booty. But
the Romans who had fled to Veii, falling unexpectedly upon the
Tyrrhenians, put them to flight, took back the booty, and captured
their camp. Having got possession of arms in abundance, they
distributed them among the unarmed, and they also gathered men from
the countryside and armed them, since they intended to relieve the
siege of the soldiers who had taken refuge on the Capitoline. While
they were at a loss how they might reveal their plans to the besieged,
since the Celts had surrounded them with strong forces, a certain
Cominius Pontius undertook to get the cheerful news to the men on the
Capitoline. Starting out alone and swimming the river by night, he
got unseen to a cliff of the Capitoline that was hard to climb and,
hauling himself up it with difficulty, told the soldiers on the
Capitoline about the troops that had been collected in Veii and how
they were watching for an opportunity and would attack the Celts.
Then, descending by the way he had mounted and swimming the Tiber, he
returned to Veii. The Celts, when they observed the tracks of one who
had recently climbed up, made plans to ascend at night by the same
cliff. Consequently about the middle of the night, while the guards
were neglectful of their watch because of the strength of the place,
some Celts started an ascent of the cliff. They escaped detection by
the guards, but the sacred geese of Hera, which were kept there,
noticed the climbers and set up a cackling. The guards rushed to the
place and the Celts deterred did not dare proceed farther. A certain
Marcus Mallius, a man held in high esteem, rushing to the defence of
the place, cut off the hand of the climber with his sword and,
striking him on the breast with his shield, rolled him from the cliff.
In like manner the second climber met his death, whereupon the rest
all quickly turned in flight. But since the cliff was precipitous they
were all hurled headlong and perished. As a result of this, when the
Romans sent ambassadors to negotiate a peace, they were persuaded,
upon receipt of one thousand pounds of gold, to leave the city and to
withdraw from Roman territory." - Diodorus Siculus, The Library
14.CXVI.1-7

Today is not the anniversary of the story of the sacred geese. I just
like the story and it's an otherwise relatively quiet day in Roman
history.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Plutarch, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Diodorus Siculus

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Cato omnes SPD

Salvete omnes.

The court in which Senator Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus will answer
the charge of calumniae brought against him by Senator Quintus Fabius
Maximus will be held openly, on this List:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/

Anyone may join the List to witness the proceedings, but only the
praetors, actor and reus, iudices, and any advocati will be allowed to
speak in court.

Over the course of the next nundinum, the ten iudices will be chosen
and contacted by myself or my colleague A. Tullia Scholastica and
asked to serve. The trial will open on a.d XVI Kalendas Maias, and
proceed through a.d. XIII Kal. Mai.; it will recess for the
observation of the Agonalia and Tubilustrium (a.d. XII - a.d. IX Kal.
Mai.) and will resume on a.d. VIII Kal. Mai.

In the modern Western calendar, the trial will take place on May 17-20
and 25-31; if need be the dates will be expanded, but I am hopeful
that with clear direction and little wasted time it can be resolved
before the kalends of Iunius.

Valete,

Gaius Equitius Cato
Praetor

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I encourage every citizen of Nova Roma to join this list and witness the
proceedings as Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus attempts to show how Senator
Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus lowered his dignitas.

Fabius Maximus vs. Fabius Buteo.

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 5/4/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnes SPD
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> The court in which Senator Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus will answer
> the charge of calumniae brought against him by Senator Quintus Fabius
> Maximus will be held openly, on this List:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/
>
> Anyone may join the List to witness the proceedings, but only the
> praetors, actor and reus, iudices, and any advocati will be allowed to
> speak in court.
>
> Over the course of the next nundinum, the ten iudices will be chosen
> and contacted by myself or my colleague A. Tullia Scholastica and
> asked to serve. The trial will open on a.d XVI Kalendas Maias, and
> proceed through a.d. XIII Kal. Mai.; it will recess for the
> observation of the Agonalia and Tubilustrium (a.d. XII - a.d. IX Kal.
> Mai.) and will resume on a.d. VIII Kal. Mai.
>
> In the modern Western calendar, the trial will take place on May 17-20
> and 25-31; if need be the dates will be expanded, but I am hopeful
> that with clear direction and little wasted time it can be resolved
> before the kalends of Iunius.
>
> Valete,
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Praetor
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]