Salve Amice,

*SUMMER* reading? The Scheid book is an easy read, not dry at all and
it moves right along. You will get through it in a couple of days. You
will probably keep going back to it though.

Enjoy your reading and

optime vale in pace deorum!

Agricola


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Aemilus Severus"
<daemilivssevervs@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > D. A
> >
>
> D. Aemilius Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Thank you to M. Hortensia Maior, M. Lucretius Agricola, and Fl. Galerius
> Aurelianus for their assistance in advising which books to purchase

to get a

> better understanding of Roman religion.
>
> I have gone ahead and ordered Beard's two volumes and J. Scheid's

book. It

> is going to be my summer reading, and as I become better informed I

hope to

> participate in future discussions and practise.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> D•AEMILIVS•SEVERVS
>
> ._,___
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

This is just a reminder that the membership function for the Society
of Cooks and Brewers within the Nova Roma site does NOT sign one up
for the mailing list.

If you have joined the Sodality and want to engage in discussion with
fellow members, send a subscription request to the following address:

Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq-subscribe(at)yahoogroups(dot)com

This is a low traffic list, but the discussions, which do occur have
been both informative and enjoyable. Membership is not limited to
Citizens of our fair Republic, so we do have a few Peregrines
onboard..

--
=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

Eat hearty, drink deep, enjoy life!

Salve,
my probationary period went intro extra innings,but I'm now a fully fledged
citizen at last.
Would the governor of Australia please kindly send my information as to how
one joins his provincial list.
Your humble servant.
Vale,D.Arm.Brvtvs

pagermanicvs@...

_________________________________________________________________
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OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Kalendis Iunibus; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"Carna, the first day's yours. Goddess of the hinge:
She opens the closed, by her power, closes the open.
The story of how she gained the powers she has is obscured
By time, but you'll still learn of it from my verse.
There's an ancient grove of Alernus near the Tiber:
And the priests still make sacrifices there.
A nymph was born there (men of old called her Cranae)
Who was often sought in vain by many suitors.
She used to hunt the land, chasing wild beasts with spears,
Stretching her woven nets in the hollow valleys.
She'd no quiver, yet considered herself Apollo's
Sister: nor need you, Apollo, have been ashamed of her.
If any youth spoke words of love to her,
She gave him this answer right away:
`There's too much light here, it's too shameful
In the light: if you'll lead to a darker cave, I'll follow.'
While he went in front, credulously, she no sooner reached
The bushes than she hid: and was nowhere to be found.
Janus saw her, and the sight raised his passion.
He used soft words to the hard-hearted nymph.
She told him to find a more private cave,
Followed him closely: then deserted her leader.
Foolish child! Janus can see what happens behind him:
You gain nothing: he looks back at your hiding place.
Nothing gained, as I said, you see! He caught you, hidden
Behind a rock, clasped you, worked his will, then said:
`In return for our union, the hinges belong to you:
Have them as recompense for your maidenhead.'
So saying he gave her a thorn (it was white-thorn)
With which to drive away evil from the threshold.
There are some greedy birds, not those that cheated
Phineus of his meal, though descended from that race:
Their heads are large, their eyes stick out, their beaks
Fit for tearing, their feathers are grey, their claws hooked.
They fly by night, attacking children with absent nurses,
And defiling their bodies, snatched from the cradle.
They're said to rend the flesh of infants with their beaks,
And their throats are full of the blood they drink.
They're called screech-owls, and the reason for the name
Is the horrible screeching they usually make at night.
Whether they're born as birds, or whether they're made so
By spells, old women transformed to birds by Marsian magic,
They still entered Proca's bedroom. Proca was fresh
Prey for the birds, a child of five days old.
They sucked at the infant's chest, with greedy tongues:
And the wretched child screamed for help.
Scared at his cry, the nurse ran to her ward,
And found his cheeks slashed by their sharp claws.
What could she do? The colour of the child's face
Was that of late leaves nipped by an early frost.
She went to Cranae and told her: Cranae said:
`Don't be afraid: your little ward will be safe.'
She approached the cradle: the parents wept:
`Restrain your tears,' she said, `I'll heal him.'
Quickly she touched the doorposts, one after the other,
Three times, with arbutus leaves, three times with arbutus
Marked the threshold: sprinkled the entrance with water,
Medicinal water, while holding the entrails of a two-month sow:
And said: `Birds of night, spare his entrails:
A small victim's offered here for a small child.
Take a heart for a heart, I beg, flesh for flesh,
This life we give you for a dearer life.'
When she'd sacrificed, she placed the severed flesh
In the open air, and forbade those there to look at it.
A `rod of Janus', taken from a whitethorn, was set
Where a little window shed light into the room.
After that, they say, the birds avoided the cradle,
And the boy recovered the colour he'd had before.
You ask why we eat greasy bacon-fat on the Kalends,
And why we mix beans with parched grain?
She's an ancient goddess, nourished by familiar food,
No epicure to seek out alien dainties.
In ancient times the fish still swam unharmed,
And the oysters were safe in their shells.
Italy was unaware of Ionian heath-cocks,
And the cranes that enjoy Pigmy blood:
Only the feathers of the peacock pleased,
And the nations didn't send us captive creatures.
Pigs were prized: men feasted on slaughtered swine:
The earth only yielded beans and hard grains.
They say that whoever eats these two foods together
At the Kalends, in this sixth month, will have sweet digestion.
They also say that the shrine of Juno Moneta was founded
On the summit of the citadel, according to your vow, Camillus:
Before it was built, the house of Manlius had protected
Capitoline Jove against the Gallic weapons.
Great Gods, it would have been better, if he'd fallen,
In defence of your throne, noble Jupiter!
He lived to be executed, condemned for seeking kingship:
That was the crown long years granted him.
This same day is a festival of Mars, whose temple
By the Covered Way is seen from beyond the Capene Gate.
You too, Tempest, were considered worthy of a shrine,
After our fleet was almost sunk in Corsican waters.
These human monuments are obvious. If you look
For stars too, great Jove's eagle, with curved talons, rises." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

"The Sabinoi [Sabines of Italia], since they had long been at war with
the Ombrikoi, vowed to dedicate everything that was produced that
year; and, on winning the victory, they partly sacrificed and partly
dedicated all that was produced; then a dearth ensued, and some one
said that they ought to have dedicated the babies too; this they did,
and devoted to Mars all the children born that year; and these
children, when grown to manhood, they sent away as colonists, and a
bull led the way; and when the bull lay down to rest in the land of
the Opikoi...the Sabinoi ejected them and settled on the spot, and, in
accordance with the utterance of their seers, slaughtered the bull as
a sacrifice to Mars who had given it for a guide." -Strabo 5.4.12

"Ares, to gory strife he speedeth, wroth with foes, when maddeneth his
heart, and grim his frown is, and his eyes flash levin-flame around
him, and his face is clothed with glory of beauty terror-blent, as on
he rusheth: quail the very Gods." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 7.400

Today is the Kalends of Iunius; although the month is dedicated to
Iuno, today is specifically held in honor of Mars, the god of war,
known to the Greeks as Ares. Mars, unlike his Greek counterpart, Ares
the god of war, was more widely worshipped than any of the other Roman
gods, probably in part because his sons by the Vestal Virgin Rhea
Silvia, Romulus and Remus, were said to have founded Rome; the Romans
called themselves the sons of Mars. Venus, who was Mars' consort in
legends borrowed from the Greek mythos, held similar importance for
them because of her relationship to Aeneas. Mars was also one of the
three supreme Roman deities of the Archaic Triad, along with Jupiter
and Quirinus.

The primary temple to Mars, dedicated to Mars Gradivus (referring to
Mars' role of preceding the army in battle) was on the northeast side
of the Via Appia outside the Porta Capena, between the first and
second milestones. As a result of the temple, this district came to be
known as ad Martis ("to [the temple] of Mars"). The temple contained a
statue of Mars and probably images of wolves. It was vowed during the
Gallic invasions, and was dedicated c. June 1, 388 BC. It was also the
site where the Roman army gathered before leaving for a war, and was
praised upon returning from victorious battles.

Another major temple to Mars, shared with Jupiter and Quirinus, was on
the Capitoline Hill. Another, the Temple of Mars Ultor ("Mars the
Avenger"), was in the Forum Augustus. It was dedicated in 2 BC by
Augustus, and paid tribute to Mars for supposedly aiding Augustus at
the Battle of Philippi. Yet another temple, designed by a Greek
architect, was built in the Circus Flaminius by Decimus Junius Brutus
Callaicus, probably after his triumph c. 133 BC. It contained a
massive statue of Mars and a naked Venus by Sopas, and the path to the
temple was decorated with verses by the poet Lucius Accius. Julius
Caesar planned to build a titanic temple to Mars on the Naumachia, a
lake used for mock sea battles, but the site was instead used as part
of the location of the Pantheon.

The Campus Martius ("Field of Mars") was dedicated to Mars, and was
where soldiers and athletes trained. Mars also had an altar there, the
Ara Martis. In the Regia on the Roman Forum, the hastae Martiae
("lances of Mars") were kept in a small chamber. Any movement of the
hastae Martiae was seen as an omen of war. If Rome was attacking, the
generals moved their lances and repeated "Mars vigila!" ("Awaken, Mars!").

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Strabo, Quintus Smyrnaeus, Wikipedia

Salve Brute,

Andreas Lachmann <pagermanicvs@...> writes:

> Would the governor of Australia please kindly send my information as to how
> one joins his provincial list.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that Australia has no governor just now. Nor
am I at all sure if there is a provincial mailing list.

Consul Paulinus has been soliciting candidates for the office. I hope we have
somebody soon.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Salvete

the official list for the Provincia Australia is
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia/

Valete

M. CVR. COMPLVTENSIS



2007/6/1, Andreas Lachmann <pagermanicvs@...>:

>
> Salve,
> my probationary period went intro extra innings,but I'm now a fully
> fledged
> citizen at last.
> Would the governor of Australia please kindly send my information as to
> how
> one joins his provincial list.
> Your humble servant.
> Vale,D.Arm.Brvtvs
>
> pagermanicvs@...
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Advertisement: Winprizes worth over $250,000 in ninemsn's Gold Rush!
>
> http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=789&referral=HotmailTagline&URL=http://goldrushgame.ninemsn.com.au
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

I will be attending Roman Days this weekend. .I leave the republic in the care of my colleague and at least one Praetor ( the other is also attending RD).

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Consul




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete cultores Deorum, gentiles Romani, et alii omnes

On this the anniversary of the dedication of the Temple of Juno
Moneta on the Arx, the following rite was performed by the flamen
Carmentalis on behalf of the Citizens of Nova Roma and all cultores
Deorum, gentiles Romani.


Praefatio

The flamen Carmentalis, in Gabii cincta, capite velato, approaches
the altar, right foot first, with his arm forward in a gesture of
supplication. Into the altar fire he places laurels. Raising his
right hand manus supina to the Heavens above, he calls out:

Audite Iane, Iuppiter optime maxime Iunoque ac Minerva ceterique Di
Deaeque, qui Capitolium Arcemque incolitis, ego vos testor.

Listen, Janus, Jupiter Optimus Maximus, listen Juno, Minerva, and all
You other Gods and Goddesses who dwell upon the Capitolium and the
Arx, I call You to be my witnesses.


Praecatio

Next he recites an invocation of Juno:

Ave Iuna Moneta, Dea aeterna, tenes vetusta delubra, gloriosa in
Arce, castissima Mater, cuius sanctitas cordi Diis est, tu candidum
lilium quod Juppiter ante omnes coluit. Tu es Magna tuque deorum
regina es, dea. Te, Dea, adoramus tuumque nos numen invocamus,
facilisque praestes hoc nos quod te rogamus; referemusque grates, Dea
Iuno, tibi merita fide. Iuno, uti tibi in illis libris scriptum est
quarumque rerum ergo quodque melius sit populo Romano Quiritibus tibi
sacrum fiat te quaeso precorque te his donis obmovendis bonas preces
precor uti sis volens propitia nobis, domo familaeque nostrae. Macte
his donis.

Hail, Juno Moneta, eternal Goddess, You who dwells in ancient
temples, shining gloriously upon the Arx, most chaste Mother, whose
sanctity is pleasing to the hearts of the Gods, You are the brilliant
lily whom Jupiter cherished before all others. You are the Great
Goddess, Queen of the Gods. You, Goddess, we adore. We invoke Your
presence among us. Come. Make what we ask to be readily and easily
accomplished, and draw our thanks, Goddess Juno, that, in fidelity,
You do rightly merit. Juno, as it is prescribed for you in those
books – and for this reason may every good fortune attend the Roman
people, the Quirites – let sacrifice be made to you. I beg and
pray. In making this offering to you, I pray with good prayers, that
You look favorably on us and our household and our homes; may this
offering strengthen and honor You.


He places blue irises, sage flowers and chamomile on the altar and
offers incense (orris root, mother's wort, and chamomile) to Juno.

Iuno Moneta, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces praecor ut sis volens
propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque nostris.

Juno Moneta, in offering to You this incense I pray good prayers that
You will look kindly and favorably upon our children and upon us, on
our homes and on our households.



Sacrificatio

He offers cakes and honey to Juno.

Huc ades, castissima Regina, te hoc libo strueque obmovendo bonas
preces precor ut sis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis
familisque nostris. mactus hoc ferto.

Come, most chaste Queen of Heaven, in offering You this libum and
strues bread I pray good prayers in order that, pleased with this
offering of libum bread, You may be favorable toward us and to our
children, to our houses and our households. May You be honored in
this.


He pours a libation of honeyed milk to Juno.

Iuno Moneta macte ista libatione pollicenda sint, macte lacti inferio
sint.

Juno Moneta, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be
honored by this portion of milk.


Litatio:

The flamen offers incense to the celestial Gods.

Iane pater,Iove Dique caelisti vos hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces
precor, ut sistis volens nobis liberisque notris domis familisque
nostris.

Father Janus, Jupiter and all the Heavenly Gods, I make this offering
of incense to You and pray that You will look kindly and favorably
upon us and our children, on our houses and our households.

Mater Vesta, te hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces precor, ut sis volens
propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque nostris.

Mother Vesta, I make this offering of incense to You and pray that
You will look kindly and favorably upon us and our children, on our
houses and on our households.

Illicet. Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.
Thus is it done; may the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it
is pious.

Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.
No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough.


Valete et vadete in pace Deorum

M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
Flamen Carmentalis

Kalendae Fabariae AUC MMDCCLX

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		VI Conventus Novae Romae
Date:		Saturday June 2, 2007
Time:		12:00 am - 1:00 am
Repeats:		This event repeats every week until Thursday August 9, 2007.
Location:		http://www.novaroma.org/nr/VI_Conventus_Novae_Romae
Notes:		Brush up your Latin and get your tickets for the VI Conventus Novae Romae in Emerita Augusta, Hispania (Merida, Spain).
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

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OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IV Nonas Iunius; haec dies fastus aterque est.

"Next light summons the Hyades, the horns on Taurus'
Brow, and then the earth's soaked with heavy rain." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"She [Python] it was who once received from gold-throned Hera and
brought up fell, cruel Typhaon to be a plague to men. Once on a time
Hera bare him because she was angry with father Zeus, when Kronides
bare all-glorious Athene in his head. Thereupon queenly Hera was angry
and spoke among the assembled gods: 'Yes, now I will contrive that a
son be born me to be foremost among the undying gods - and that
without casting shame on the holy bond of wedlock between you and me.
And I will not come to your bed, but will consort with the blessed
gods far off from you.'

When she had so spoken, she went apart from the gods, being very
angry. Then straightway large-eyed queenly Hera prayed, striking the
ground flatwise with her hand, and speaking thus: 'Hear now, I pray,
Gaia and wide Ouranos above, and you Titanes gods who dwell beneath
the earth about great Tartaros, and from whom are sprung both gods and
men! Harken you now to me, one and all, and grant that I may bear a
child apart from Zeus, no wit lesser than him in strength - nay, let
him be as much stronger than Zeus as all-seeing Zeus than Kronos.'
Thus she cried and lashed the earth with her strong hand. Then the
life-giving Gaia was moved: and when Hera saw it she was glad in
heart, for she thought her prayer would be fulfilled. And thereafter
she never came to the bed of wise Zeus for a full year.

But when the months and days were fulfilled and the seasons duly came
on as the earth moved round, she bare one neither like the gods nor
mortal men, fell, cruel Typhaon, to be a plague to men. Straightway
large-eyed queenly Hera took him and bringing one evil thing to
another such, gave him to the drakaina; and she received him. And this
Typhaon used to work great mischief among the famous tribes of men." -
Homeric Hymns 3.300-355

"The peacock made complaint to Juno that, while the nightingale
pleased every ear with his song, he himself no sooner opened his mouth
than he became a laughingstock to all who heard him. The Goddess, to
console him, said, "But you far excel in beauty and in size. The
splendor of the emerald shines in your neck and you unfold a tail
gorgeous with painted plumage." "But for what purpose have I," said
the bird, "this dumb beauty so long as I am surpassed in song?' "The
lot of each," replied Juno, "has been assigned by the will of the
Fates--to thee, beauty; to the eagle, strength; to the nightingale,
song; to the raven, favorable, and to the crow, unfavorable auguries.
These are all contented with the endowments allotted to them." - Aesop

"I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bare. Queen of the Immortals
is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and wife of
loud-thundering Zeus, - the glorious one whom all the blessed
throughout high Olympos reverence and honour even as Zeus who delights
in thunder." –Homeric Hymn XII To Hera

"The homage of our song is also due to Hera, the goddess of marriage,
who interests herself in every chorus and guards the approach to the
nuptial couch." - Aristophanes Thesmophoriazusae 970

"The parents of the maidens died because of the wrath of the gods,
that they were reared as orphans by Aphrodite and received gifts from
other goddesses: from Hera wisdom and beauty of form, from Artemis
high stature, from Athena schooling in the works that befit women." -
Pausanias 10.30.1

"When Iuppiter wished to lie with Aegina, the daughter of Asopus, he
feared Juno, and took the girl to the island of Delos, and there made
her pregnant. Aeacus was their son. When Juno found this out, she sent
a serpent into the water which poisoned it, and if anyone drank from
it, he paid the debt to nature. Since Aeacus, his allies lost, could
not protect himself on accou t of the scarcity of men, as he gazed at
some ants, he begged Jupiter to give him men for defense. Then
Iuppiter changed the ants into men." –Hyginus, Fabulae 52

"Zeus fell in love with Semele and slept with her, promising her
anything she wanted, and keeping it all from Hera. But Semele was
deceived by Hera into asking Zeus to come to her as he came to Hera
during their courtship. So Zeus, unable to refuse her, arrived in her
bridal chamber in a chariot with lightning flashes and thunder, and
sent a thunderbolt at her. Semele died of fright, and Zeus grabbed
from the fire her six-month aborted baby [Dionysos], which he sowed
into his thigh. Hermes took him [the baby Dionysos] to Ino and
Athamas, and persuaded them to bring him up as a girl. Incensed, Hera
inflicted madness on them, so that Athamas stalked and slew his elder
son Learkhos on the conviction that he was a deer, while Ino threw
Melikertes into a basin of boiling water, and then, carrying both the
basin and the corpse of the boy, she jumped to the bottom of the sea.
As for Zeus, he escaped Hera's anger by changing Dionysos into a baby
goat. Hermes took him to the Nymphai of Asian Nysa." –Apollodorus 3.26, 28

The month of Iunius is dedicated to Iuno, the great Queen of Heaven,
known to the Greeks as Hera. Iuno rules over all aspects of Roman
life. Besides being called Great Mother, she is also invoked as
"Optima Maxima" meaning best and greatest of the Goddesses. Iuno
watches and protects women from the time they are born until they pass
through the veil. For this reason, Roman women call their souls "iuno"
in honor of the Goddess. Every Roman woman embodied a bit of the
Goddess's spirit, her own soul a iuno, corresponding to the genius of
a man.

As the patroness of marriage, Iuno restores peace between quarreling
couples. One of her temples was used as a sanctuary for women who
needed shelter from cruel husbands. Iuno is one of the most powerful
of the Roman goddesses. She is second in power only to Iuppiter, her
husband and according to some legends, her brother. She was the
goddess of women, particularly married women. Serving as a guardian to
women she oversaw all aspects of a woman's life, childbirth, and
marriage being the primary areas of concern. Iuno Lucina was an
aspect of the goddess Iuno associated with light and childbirth. Her
name lucina probably comes from the Latin lucus (grove). Livy records
that the grove on the Esquiline Hill in which a temple was dedicated
to her in 375 BC is the origin of her name.

By the second century BC Iuno Lucina was associated with childbirth
because the name lucina was thought to have come from the Latin word
lux (light). When a child was born it was said to have been "brought
to light." Women who worshiped Iuno Lucina had to untie knots and
unbraid their hair lest lest these entanglements symbolically block
delivery.

Her children Mars, Hebe, and Vulcan, were lesser gods in their own
right. Juno was noted for her husband's affairs and her jealous
reaction to them. She persistently tormented the offspring of his
infidelities.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Pausanius, Homer, Hyginus, Aesop, Aristophanes, Apollodorus

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem III nonas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"When two dawns are past, and Phoebus has risen twice,
And the crops have twice been wet by the dewfall,
On that day, they say, during the Tuscan War, Bellona's
Shrine was consecrated, she who always brings Rome success.
Appius was responsible, who, when peace was denied Pyrrhus,
Saw clearly with his mind, though deprived of sight.
A little open space looks down on the heights of the Circus
From the temple, there's a little pillar there of no mean importance:
The custom is to hurl a spear from there to declare war,
When it's been decided to take up arms against kings and nations." -
Ovid, Fasti VI

"Hard by them stood Enyo, spurred them on ceaselessly: never paused
they from the strife...Eris (strife incarnate) watched and gloated
o'er them." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 8.186

"Stalked through the midst deadly Enyo, her shoulders and her hands
blood-splashed, while fearful sweat streamed from her limbs. Revelling
in equal fight, she aided none, lest Thetis' or Ares' wrath be
stirred." - op. cit. 8.286

"The gifts of Ares are swords and brazen tunics to array the limbs and
helmets and spears and whatsoever things Enyo delights in." - Oppian,
Halieutica 2.24

"And Enyo, revelling in the drunkenness of unmixed blood, danced all
night throughout the city, like a hurricane, turbulent with the waves
of the surging war. And therewithal Eris lifted her head high as
heaven and stirred up the Argives; since even bloody Ares, late but
even so, came and brought to the Danaans the changeful victory in
war." - Tryphiodorus, Sack of Ilium 560

"And to Phorkys Keto bore the Graiai, with fair faces and gray from
birth, and these the gods who are immortal and men who walk on the
earth call Graiai, the gray sisters, Pemphredo robed in beauty and
Enyo robed in saffron." - Hesiod, Theogony 270

"So with Hermes and Athene as his guides Perseus sought out the
daughters of Phorkys, who were named Enyo, Pephredo, and Deino. These
daughters of Phorkys and Keto, sisters of the Gorgones, were old women
from their birth. The three of them possessed only one eye and one
tooth among them, which they took turns using. Perseus appropriated
these, and when they demanded them back, he said he would return them
after they had directed him to the nymphs .. When the daughters of
Phorkys had led Perseus to the nymphs, he returned them their tooth
and eye." - Apollodorus, The Library 2.37-39

"Amid the night-wandering shades the god of battle from on high made
to resound with the thunder of arms the Nemean fields and Arcadia from
end to end, and the height of Taenarum and Therapnae...filled excited
hearts with passion for himself. Furor (Fury) and Iraque (Wrath) make
trim his crest, and Pavor (Panic), his own squire, handles his horses'
reins. But Fama (Rumour), awake to every sound and girt with empty
tidings of tumult, flies before the chariot, sped onward by the winged
steeds' panting breath, and with loud whirring shakes out her
fluttering plumes; for the charioteer [Bellona] with blood-stained
goad urges her to speak, be it truth or falsehood, while threatening
from the lofty car the sire [Mars] with Scythian lance assails the
back and tresses of the goddess." - Statius, Thebaid 3.424

"Bellona flashed her sword o'er their heads." - Valerius Flaccus,
Argonautica 2.228

Today is held in honor of the goddess Bellona. In Greek mythology,
Enyo ("horror") was an ancient goddess known by the epithet "Waster of
Cities" and frequently depicted as being covered in blood and carrying
weapons of war. She was frequently portrayed as a companion of Ares,
the chief god of war, and has been variously said to be his mother or
sister. She was occasionally said to be one of the Graeae. Enyo was,
as you have read above, absolutely without remorse or compassion, and
revelled only in slaughter and destruction.

Enyo's Roman counterpart, Bellona, like Ares's counterpart Mars, was
much more popular. She is believed to be one of the numinous gods of
the Romans (without a particular mythology and possibly of Etruscan
origin), and is supposed by many to have been the Romans' original war
deity, predating the identification of Mars with Ares. Her name,
Bellona, is derived from the Latin word for "war" (bellum), and is
directly related to the modern English word "belligerent" (lit.,
"war-bearing"). In art, she is portrayed with a helmet, sword, spear,
and torch.

All Senate meetings relating to foreign war were conducted in the
Templum Bellonae (Temple of Bellona) on the Collis Capitolinus outside
the pomerium. This temple was built in 296 BC and was burned down in
48 BC.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Hesiod, Apollodorus, Statius, Oppian, Quintus Smyrnaeus,
Valerius Flaccius, Wikipedia

FYI

----- Original Message -----
From: robert-blau@...<mailto:robert-blau@...>
To: ancient_discoveries@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ancient_discoveries@yahoogroups.com> ; hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com<mailto:hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com> ; imperialrome2@...<mailto:imperialrome2@...> ; john_s_david@...<mailto:john_s_david@...> ; erajan@...<mailto:erajan@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:34 PM
Subject: [Imperial Rome] Archaeologists dig out ancient port in India with links to Rome


Archaeologists dig out ancient port
New Delhi Television Limited, June 1, 2007

Archaeologists in Kerala have discovered a 2000-year-old port settlement
probably dating back to the first BC to third AD, in Pattanam about 50
km from the modern day port city of Kochi. The Kerala Council for
Historical Research (KCHR) in its findings suggests that this could be
the lost town of Muzires mentioned in early Roman manuscripts when
ancient Rome had trade links with South India. "Periplus mentions that
the Roman ship came only up to the coast and they could not directly
come up to Muzires. Then smaller boats brought goods from the ships to
the site,'' said K Selvakumar, archaeologist. This is a Roman amphora
piece, the bottom bit amphora was the jar that was meant for
transporting wine, olive oil, fish sauce etc. We have found 160 pieces
of amphora here," said P J Cherian, Director, KCHR.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070014111<http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070014111>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

>the official list for the Provincia Australia is
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia/
>

thank you for the information.

Could we please have a show of hands from the Aussies on this or the
NR_Australia list please.
I'm the president of a Roman Living History group in Brisbane.Two of our
members have joined NR and I have some others interested.This might be an
opportunity to kick our province back into life.
There's an National Ancients Assembly by re-enactors and living historians
in Colo,NSW in October.We might combine that with a meeting of Nova Romans.
If anybody is attending the AMPHORA conference next month ,held the
Queensland Uni.please let me know,so we can arrange to meet.

Valete,D.Arm.Brvtvs

>

_________________________________________________________________
Advertisement: 1000s of Sexy Singles online now at Lavalife
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OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est pridie Nonas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"The rest of the Circus is protected by Hercules the Guardian,
The god holds the office due to the Sibylline oracle.
The day before the Nones is when he takes up office:
If you ask about the inscription, Sulla approved the work." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

Today is held in honor of Hercules (known to the Greeks as Herakles).
There are many wonderful stories about Hercules which have nothing to
do with the famous Twelve Labors, among them:

Hesione was the daughter of King Laomedon of Troy. Hercules met
Hesione after his year of enslavement to Omphale, when he set out for
Troy. Hercules found Troy in a state of crisis, as King Laomedon had
cheated Poseidon and Apollo by failing to pay them for building the
walls. For punishment Poseidon had sent a large sea monster, who would
only be appeased by devouring the princess, Hesione. Hercules sought
to kill the monster and naturally expected a reward, such as
Laomedon's amazing horses. Hercules bravely killed the beast by
allowing himself to be swallowed by the monster, whom he then killed
from the inside. But once a cheat always a cheat: Laomedon skimped on
paying Hercules too. So Hercules raised an army, including such great
men as Telamon, father of Ajax. When his army captured the city,
Hercules gave Hesione in marriage to Telamon (they soon gave birth to
another hero, Teucer). Hesione was given the opportunity to save any
one of her fellow Trojan prisoners: she chose her brother Podarces,
later known as Priam.

After completing his twelve labors, Hercules hit the road, once again.
Somehow or another, Hercules caught wind that Eurytus, the prince of
Oechalia, was offering his beautiful daughter, Iole, as a bride prize
to any man who could best him and his sons in an archery contest. Upon
hearing this, Hercules traveled to Oechalia and competed against
Eurytus and his sons. Legend has it that Eurytus was the man who first
schooled Hercules in the use of the bow. His was a challenge that
pitted student against teacher. It should come as no surprise that
Hercules defeated his fellow contestants with ease. When it came
time, however, for Eurytus to hand over Iole to Hercules, as his
bride, Eurytus refused. In this decision he was supported by all of
his sons except Iphytus. One may wonder why a prince would deny the
strongest man in the world his daughter in marriage. For Eurytus, the
reasoning was simple: he would not allow his beloved daughter to marry
(and eventually have children with) a man who had a history of
murdering his sons in a fit of rage (remember that whole Megara
fiasco?), for fear that the same fate would befall his own
grandchildren. Crestfallen and dismayed, Hercules left Oechalia.
Shortly after Hercules' departure, some mares (or cattle, depending on
the storyteller) were stolen by Autolycus from a local man. Eurytus
instantly thought that Hercules was the culprit. Iphytus, however,
refused to believe that Hercules was the thief and set out to pay him
a visit at Tiryns (another version suggests Iphytus went to Tiryns to
look for the cattle himself). Hercules received Iphytus in good cheer
and the two men passed the time entertaining each other. Unfortunately
for Iphytus, however, during the visit something went awry, and
Hercules, in another fit of madness, hurled Iphytus to his death from
the top of the walls of Tiryns. Following the murder of Iphytus,
Hercules contracted a terrible disease, as a result of his violent
outburst. Hercules then journeyed to the oracle at Delphi, in hopes
that the priestess there would advise him on how to cure himself. But
Hercules was to be disappointed. When he questioned the Pythian
priestess, she was unable to answer him in oracles. Hercules, outraged
at priestesses unwillingness to help, began tearing the temple apart.
When Hercules came upon the Delphic tripod, he started to make off
with it, thinking that he would establish an oracle of his own.
Apollo, however, was not about to let Hercules carry off the prized
tripod from his sacred site. He began to wrestle with Hercules over
its possession; Apollo was supported by his sister, Artemis, while
Hercules was supported by his patron, Athena. In the midst of their
tug-of-war contest, Zeus dropped in and tried to break up the feuding
brothers (Apollo and Hercules are, after all, half-brothers by Zeus).
And as parents are often forced to do, Zeus decided that it would be
best to separate the brothers, hurling one of his mighty thunderbolts
between them. After the two siblings were pried apart, Hercules
finally received an oracle, instructing him to be sold into slavery
for a year, and to pay Eurytus in compensation for the loss of his
son. The tripod remained at Delphi and Hermes sold Hercules to
Omphale, Queen of Lydia, for whom he performed women's work for his
year of servitude.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, The Perseus Project (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/copyright.html)

"...These are the very features of the Adonis cult: a cult confined to
women which is celebrated on flat roof-tops on which sherds sown with
quickly germinating green salading are placed, Adonis gardens... the
climax is loud lamentation for the dead god." (Burkert, p. 177)..."


According to these lines from wikiepdia.org- Adonis was a god- similar
to Attis-Life Death Rebirth god, although i hate looking at the gods in
those basic terms-However I was facinated and wanted to learn more as I have been exploring Adonis and Attis- So Does anyone know of good links? books regarding the worship of Adonis? Attis?




But what does everyone else think? Does anyone offer Him worship?



Thoughts?!

________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

salve "romulus214"

I don't know if I offer "worship" to any of the gods.

Of course, I perform my lararium rite. I sometimes send gifts to
Cyrene Lucretia Corva Apollinaris to use in her shrine to Apollo and
do other things, but I wonder if "worship" is the right word.

The immortal gods are our partners in this world, and we do well to
show them respect, as they are indeed powerful. Still, they are
well-disposed toward us, it seems, and demand respect, but not slavish
fear.

I acknowledge them in all things, and show them respect. I strive to
understand them better. I try to give them what is their due. If that
is what you mean by worship, then fine, I worship the gods. If what
you mean by worship is to tremble in fear, or to pin my hopes on the
will of one of them, or to adopt a slavish attitude to any or all of
them, then worship is not what I do.

Now I don't speak as an expert, or for anyone but myself, but I think
that my attitude is a fairly common one for Romans.

Scheid (in "Roman Religion") says "The Romans, like the Greeks,
accepted the fundamental principle that the gods lived in the world
alongside men [sic] and strove with them, in a civic context, to bring
about the common good."

We have no sacerdos of Adonnis, and I myself do not know of anyone
specifically who attends privately to the cult of Adonnis. If you are
a citizen of Nova Roma, of course, you would be free to do so in your
own way. I am responding to you in this way so that I can convey to
you my viewpoint on the proper relation we should strive to attain
with the gods.

Our experts, of course, frequent the Religio Romana mailing list. You
may find more informed opinions there.


optime vale in pace deorum

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, romulus214@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> "...These are the very features of the Adonis cult: a cult confined to
> women which is celebrated on flat roof-tops on which sherds sown with
> quickly germinating green salading are placed, Adonis gardens... the
> climax is loud lamentation for the dead god." (Burkert, p. 177)..."
>
>
> According to these lines from wikiepdia.org- Adonis was a god- similar
> to Attis-Life Death Rebirth god, although i hate looking at the gods in
> those basic terms-However I was facinated and wanted to learn more
as I have been exploring Adonis and Attis- So Does anyone know of good
links? books regarding the worship of Adonis? Attis?
>
>
>
>
> But what does everyone else think? Does anyone offer Him worship?
>
>
>
> Thoughts?!
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

M. Hortensia Romulo spd;
here is an article from a journal
Mourning and Community at the Athenian Adonia
Ronda R. Simms
The Classical Journal, Vol. 93, No. 2 (Dec., 1997 - Jan., 1998), pp.
121-141
This article consists of 21 page(s).
You want the Greek 'Adonia' it wasnt a Roman cult. For Attis read
Prof. Lynn Roller's "In Search of God the Mother" Attis was really
the name of the priests of Cybele & became conflated with the myth
of Adonis. Mourning for Attis etc...became a part of Rome's cult of
Magna Mater (Cybele) later on in Imperial times.
The cult of the dying youth also exists in that of Hadrian and
Antinous, very Roman. To do online research, go to Google Scholar &
you will get something of value.
bonam fortunam & always feel free to ask for help
M. Hortensia Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/

>
>
>
>
>
>
> According to these lines from wikiepdia.org- Adonis was a god-

similar

> to Attis-Life Death Rebirth god, although i hate looking at the

gods in

> those basic terms-However I was facinated and wanted to learn more

as I have been exploring Adonis and Attis- So Does anyone know of
good links? books regarding the worship of Adonis? Attis?

>
>
>
>
> But what does everyone else think? Does anyone offer Him worship?
>
>
>
> Thoughts?!
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
___

> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's

free from AOL at AOL.com.

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Nonis Iuniis; haec dies nefastus est.

"I asked whether I should assign the Nones to Sancus,
Or Fidius, or you Father Semo: Sancus answered me:
`Whichever you assign it to, the honour's mine:
I bear all three names: so Cures willed it.'
The Sabines of old granted him a shrine accordingly,
And established it on the Quirinal Hill." - Ovid, Fasti VI


"The same thing the more ancient name of Jupiter shows even better,
for of old He was called Diovis and Diespater; that is, dies pater
(Day Father), from whence sub divo (under the sky) and Dius Fidius
(God of Good Faith) is derived. Thus from this reason the roof of His
temple is pierced with a hole, that in this way the divum, which is
the caelum (sky), may be seen. Some say that it is improper to take an
oath by His name when you are under a roof. Aelius (Stilo) said that
Dius Fidius was a son of Diovis, just as the Greeks call Castor
Dioskoron (Son of Zeus), and he thought that He was Sancus in the
Sabine tongue and Hercules in Greek." - Varro, de Lingua Latina V.66

Semo Sancus was served by the company of priests called the Bidental.
He was likely a pre-Roman sky god. His name as Dius Fidius was used as
an oath, the oath being taken in the unroofed compluvium of a house,
under the open sky, and the god's temple had a hole in the roof open
to the sky also. Fidius is therefore connected to Jupiter. As the god
of oaths, he protected the sanctity of the marriage tie, the rights of
hospitality, international treaties and alliances.

This Sabine cult is said to have been introduced into Rome by Titus
Tatius, but the construction of the temple is generally ascribed to
the last Tarquin, although it was dedicated by Sp. Postumius many
years later, 5th June, 466 BC It contained a bronze statue of
Tanaquil, her distaff and spindle, and a wooden shield covered with
ox-hide, which was a memorial of the league between Rome and Gabii,
and, after the destruction of Privernum in 329 BC, bronze wheels made
of the proceeds of the confiscated property of Vitruvius.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Varro, Smith's Dictionary

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VIII Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"I have a daughter (may she outlive me, I pray)
In whom I'll always be happy, while she's safe.
When I wished to give her away to my son-in-law,
I asked which times were fit for weddings, which were not:
Then it was pointed out to me that after the Ides of June
Was a good time for brides, and for bridegrooms,
While the start of the month was unsuitable for marriage:
For the holy wife of the Flamen Dialis told me:
`Till the calm Tiber carries the sweepings from the shrine
Of Ilian Vesta, on its yellow waves to the sea,
I'm not allowed to comb my hair with a toothed comb,
Nor to cut my nails with anything made of iron,
Nor to touch my husband, though he's Jove's priest,
And though he was given to me by law for life.
Don't be in a hurry. Your daughter will be better wed,
When Vesta's fire gleams on purified earth.'" - Ovid, Fasti VI

"Why did the priest of Jupiter (Flamen Dialis) resign his office if
his wife died, as Ateius has recorded?

Is it because the man who has taken a wife and then lost her is more
unfortunate than one who has never taken a wife? For the house of the
married man is complete, but the house of him who has married and
later lost his wife is not only incomplete, but also crippled.
Or is it because the wife assists her husband in the rites, so that
many of them cannot be performed without the wife's presence, and for
a man who has lost his wife to marry again immediately is neither
possible perhaps nor otherwise seemly? Wherefore it was formerly
illegal for the flamen to divorce his wife; and it is still, as it
seems, illegal, but in my day Domitian once permitted it on petition.
The priests were present at that ceremony of divorce and performed
many horrible, strange, and gloomy rites. One might be less surprised
at this resignation of the flamen if one should adduce also the fact
that when one of the censors died, the other was obliged to resign his
office; but when the censor Livius Drusus died, his colleague Aemilius
Scaurus was unwilling to give up his office until certain tribunes
ordered him to be led away to prison." - Plutarch, "The Roman
Questions" 50

A great many ceremonies are imposed upon the Flamen Dialis, and also
many restraints, about which we read in the books "On The Public
Priesthoods" and also in Book I of Fabius Pictor's work. Among them
are the following: it is forbidden ("religio est") the Flamen Dialis
to ride a horse; it is likewise forbidden him to view the "classes
arrayed" outside the pomerium, i.e., armed and in battle order; hence
only rarely is the Flamen Dialis made a consul, since the conduct of
wars is entrusted to the consuls; it is likewise unlawful ("fas
numquam est") for him ever to take an oath by Iuppiter; it is likewise
unlawful for him to wear a ring, unless it is cut through and empty
(i.e., without a jewel). It is also unlawful to carry out fire from
the flaminia, i.e., the Flamen Dialis' dwelling, except for a sacral
purpose; if a prisoner in chains enters the house he must be released
and the chains must be carried up through the impluvium (the opening
in the roof above the atrium or living room) onto the roof tiles and
dropped down from there into the street. He must have no knot in his
head gear or in his girdle or in any other part of his attire. If
anyone is being led away to be flogged and falls at his feet as a
suppliant, it is unlawful ("piaculum est") to flog him that day. The
hair of the Flamen Dialis is not to be cut except by a freeman. It is
customary ("mos est") for the Flamen neither to touch nor even to name
a female goat, or eat or touch raw meat, ivy, or beans.

He must not walk under a trellis for vines. The feet of the bed on
which he lies must have a thin coating of clay, and he must not be
away from this bed for three successive nights, nor is it lawful for
anyone else to sleep in this bed. At the foot of his bed there must be
a box containing a little pile of sacrificial cakes. The nail
trimmings and hair of the Dialis must be buried in the ground beneath
a healthy tree. Every day is a holy day for the Dialis. He must not go
outdoors ("sub divo") without a head-covering.

It is not lawful for him to touch bread made of fermented meal. His
underwear he does not take off except in covered places, lest he
appear nude under the open sky, which is the same as under the eye of
Iuppiter. No one else outranks him in the seating at a banquet except
the Rex sacrificulus. If he loses his wife, he must resign his office.
His marriage cannot be dissolved ("dirimi ius non est") except by
death. He never enters a burying ground, he never touches a corpse. He
is, however, permitted to attend a funeral.

Almost the same ceremonial rules belong to the Flaminica Dialis. They
say that she observes certain other and different ones, for example,
that she wears a dyed gown, and that she has a twig from a fruitful
tree tucked in her veil, and that it is forbidden [religiosum est] for
her to ascend more than three rungs of a ladder and even that when she
goes to the Argei, when twenty-four puppets were thrown into the
Tiber, she must neither comb her head nor arrange her hair.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Wikipedia, Frederick Grant, "Ancient Roman Religion" (New York 1957)

P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.

I have read in our forum that the 'Roman days' event has been organized
in the U.S. last w-e.

Next Quirinus webzine issue is scheduled for the end of this month of
June. An article on the Roman days may be still inserted. Pictures
(with a legend pls !) are welcome in jpg format.

So... Who will be kind enough to send me, before next sunday, some
lines on the Roman days ?

Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
so what's happening with the American Conventus?

M. Hortensia Maior


to be held in Chicago, Ill, in August 2760.

>
> [No oath shall be demanded of him]. [This edict takes effect

immediately].

>
> Given under my hand this 27TH day of May, 2007 C.E. at 2:00 am Roman

time.

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Publi Memi,

Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> writes:

> P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.
>
> I have read in our forum that the 'Roman days' event has been organized
> in the U.S. last w-e.

Indeed it was.

[...]

> So... Who will be kind enough to send me, before next sunday, some
> lines on the Roman days ?

It became Roman day, since Sunday's activities were canceled by the remnants
of tropical storm Barry. Saturday was very good. We had 35 legionaries in
armor on the drill field, three military engines (all onagers), and a number
of Roman civilians present. About 400 visitors came to the event to watch
demonstrations of Roman military drill, and learn about Roman law and
society.

You can read a summary and see photos at
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/rdays.html and
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/romandays/index.htm

The second URL should eventually have links to pictures. They aren't up yet.
However, many can be seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/drfuller/tags/rd07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8028065@N05/sets/72157600311704702/
http://69.246.199.104/roman/romandays2007/
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/romandays/photos/browse/8245?c=


Nova Roma was represented by Consul Ti. Galerius Paulinus who is also the
governor of Mediatlantica provincia, my wife Paula Gratia Stephana, Senator
L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Merlinia Ambrosia Artori, A. Equitius
Gracchus, his wife Asellina Iulia Brittanica, and me.

Vale,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> omnibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Publi Memi,
>
> Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...
> <mailto:albucius_aoe%40hotmail.com> > writes:
>
>> > P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.
>> >
>> > I have read in our forum that the 'Roman days' event has been organized
>> > in the U.S. last w-e.
>
> Indeed it was.
>
> [...]
>> > So... Who will be kind enough to send me, before next sunday, some
>> > lines on the Roman days ?
>
> It became Roman day, since Sunday's activities were canceled by the remnants
> of tropical storm Barry. Saturday was very good. We had 35 legionaries in
> armor on the drill field, three military engines (all onagers), and a number
> of Roman civilians present. About 400 visitors came to the event to watch
> demonstrations of Roman military drill, and learn about Roman law and
> society.
>
> You can read a summary and see photos at
> http://www.larp.com/legioxx/rdays.html and
> http://www.larp.com/legioxx/romandays/index.htm
>
> The second URL should eventually have links to pictures. They aren't up yet.
> However, many can be seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/drfuller/tags/rd07/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8028065@N05/sets/72157600311704702/
> http://69.246.199.104/roman/romandays2007/
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/romandays/photos/browse/8245?c=
>
> Nova Roma was represented by Consul Ti. Galerius Paulinus who is also the
> governor of Mediatlantica provincia, my wife Paula Gratia Stephana, Senator
> L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Merlinia Ambrosia Artori, A. Equitius
> Gracchus, his wife Asellina Iulia Brittanica, and me.
>
> ATS: And Praetrix A. Tullia Scholastica, albeit late, and certain
> legionaries...a certain Gallio Velius Marsallas and a certain M. Quintius
> Clavus, if memory serves, and perhaps others.
>
> As is often the case, we also had the replica Roman chariot and its
> owner...
>
> Vale,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

My wife and I also attended on Saturday, and showed up to the rain out on
Sunday. Being our first time there, and not really knowing anyone made it a
little weird to just walk up to people. Perhaps next year, NR can set up a
small registration table in our area, possibly with name tags for attendees.


Saturday was a lot of fun, and well worth leaving NJ at the crack of dawn.
We're looking forward to next year's event already. I do have a bunch of
pictures, but I haven't gotten them online yet. I'll work on that tomorrow.

Valete,

Sex. Postumius Albus

On 6/6/07, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Publi Memi,
>
> Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> writes:
>
> > P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.
> >
> > I have read in our forum that the 'Roman days' event has been organized
> > in the U.S. last w-e.
>
> Indeed it was.
>
> [...]
> > So... Who will be kind enough to send me, before next sunday, some
> > lines on the Roman days ?
>
> It became Roman day, since Sunday's activities were canceled by the
> remnants
> of tropical storm Barry. Saturday was very good. We had 35 legionaries
> in
> armor on the drill field, three military engines (all onagers), and a
> number
> of Roman civilians present. About 400 visitors came to the event to watch
> demonstrations of Roman military drill, and learn about Roman law and
> society.
>
> You can read a summary and see photos at
> http://www.larp.com/legioxx/rdays.html and
> http://www.larp.com/legioxx/romandays/index.htm
>
> The second URL should eventually have links to pictures. They aren't up
> yet.
> However, many can be seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/drfuller/tags/rd07/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8028065@N05/sets/72157600311704702/
> http://69.246.199.104/roman/romandays2007/
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/romandays/photos/browse/8245?c=
>
>
> Nova Roma was represented by Consul Ti. Galerius Paulinus who is also the
> governor of Mediatlantica provincia, my wife Paula Gratia Stephana,
> Senator
> L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Merlinia Ambrosia Artori, A. Equitius
> Gracchus, his wife Asellina Iulia Brittanica, and me.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN�EQVIT�MARINVS
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

P. Memmius Albucius Sen. Marino Pr. Tulliae Postumioque s.d.

Thanks a lot for your very fast reply.

I am going using the URL links that you have indicated in your letter,
Marine, and the informations that you all brought in your messages.
I think it will help Quirinus to make enough 'stuff' to issue an
article.
If you have any further information on what kind of show or time during
the Day was the most interesting for you, etc. do not refrain, till
next sunday !

Gratias vobis iterum... et valete.


P. Memmius Albucius

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VII Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"On the third dawn after the Nones, it's said that Phoebe
Chases away Arcturus, and the Bear's free of fear of her ward.
Then I recall, too, I've seen games, named for you
Smooth-flowing Tiber, held on the turf in the Field of Mars.
The day's a festival for those who tug at dripping lines,
And hide their bronze hooks under little strands of bait." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

"But Rhea was subject in love to Kronos and bare splendid children,
Hestia, Demeter, and gold-shod Hera and strong Haides ... and the
loud-crashing Earth-Shaker [Poseidon], and wise Zeus ... These great
Kronos swallowed as each came forth from the womb to his mother's
knees ... Therefore he kept no blind outlook, but watched and
swallowed down his children ... As the years rolled on, great Kronos
the wily was beguiled by the deep suggestions of Gaia (Earth), and
brought up again his offspring, vanquished by the arts and might of
his own son, and he vomited up first the stone which he had swallowed
last." - Hesiod, Theogony 453

"To Hestia, Fumigation from Aromatics. Daughter of Kronos, venerable
dame, who dwellest amidst great fire's eternal flame; in sacred rites
these ministers are thine, mystics much blessed, holy and divine. In
thee the Gods have fixed their dwelling place, strong, stable basis of
the mortal race. Eternal, much formed, ever florid queen, laughing and
blessed, and of lovely mien; accept these rites, accord each just
desire, and gentle health and needful good inspire." - Orphic Hymn 84
to Hestia

"Zeus the Father gave her a high honour instead of marriage, and she
has her place in the midst of the house and has the richest portion.
In all the temples of the gods she has a share of honour, and among
all mortal men she is chief of the goddesses." - Homeric Hymn V to
Aphrodite 18

"Zeus, the mighty lord, holding the reins of a winged chariot, leads
the way in heaven, ordering all and taking care of all; and there
follows him the array of gods and demigods, marshalled in eleven
bands; Hestia alone abides at home in the house of heaven." - Plato,
Phaedrus 246

"The goddess whom they call Hestia. Her power extends over altars and
hearths, and therefore all prayers and all sacrifices end with this
goddess, because she is the guardian of the innermost things." -
Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.27

Today is held in honor of Vesta, the Roman goddess of the hearth and
home, known to the Greeks as Hestia. On this day the Romans opened
the penus vestae, the room of sacred objects, including the palladium
and the images of the state penates. The doors would be opened to the
matrons of the city would walk barefoot through the streets carrying
offerings of food.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Homer, Cicero, Hesiod, the Orphic Poet

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
I just saw this posted at Latinitas & replied. I believe A.
Tullia objected to Patruus' link to a blog with Lucretius's opening
to "De Rerum Naturum" a magnificent ode to Venus.
When I posted a reply that the message below was inappropriate to
a group devoted to Latin culture, I saw that it was not posted. When
I tried to post again to Latinitas; I saw that my post was subject
to moderation. What on earth is going on? This is an official Nova
Roma Sodalitas.
M. Hortensia Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/


A. Tullia Scholastica Patruó sodálibus optimís suís S.P.D.

Inasmuch as a recent post has raised this issue, it is apparently
necessary to point out certain matters of propriety, a sense which is
lacking in far too many people. This is an open list with minors on
it, and
it is NOT appropriate to discuss sexual matters here, much less to
post
links to video of such things here. Secondly, women are NOT here to
be
sexual (or other) toys for males (or anyone else). We women have
been
degraded, insulted, and abused for far too long. I am hardly alone
in being
a victim of such behavior, whether in the classroom or tending to my
business on the streets, shops, and residences of this world. In one
classroom situation, I was given lower marks than the best male
student,
though I was by far the best student in that class, and I need not
detail
what has happened to me on the streets of various cities other than
my own,
or what has happened to me and my friends in our dormitories when
males
decided that we were here for their gratification rather than to
expand our
minds and use them for the benefit of humanity.

Humans do themselves no good when they fail to use their fancy
cerebral
cortices to control their emotions or their urges; healthy adult
humans
control their tempers and any and all urges, including those at which
animals are far more talented than humans. When animals indulge in
sex, it
seems that younger animals of the same sort result virtually every
time,
whereas humans do not appear to be so successful in reproduction.
We are
not animals in the barnyards, fields, forests, lakes, rivers,
oceans, etc.,
of this world, and need not descend to their level. Especially on a
list
with legal minors and others who are below the appropriate age for
sex (NOT
the same thing), and with women who do not care to be degraded by
being
reduced to the status of whores (call them what you will; I will call
ecdysiasts what they ARE), this sort of thing is totally
inappropriate, and
will NOT be tolerated. There is a list for such matters, one where
the
trash congregate along with a few who want to see what else is going
on;
such material may well belong there, but it most emphatically does
NOT
belong here.

Valete.

--- End forwarded message ---

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> I just saw this posted at Latinitas & replied. I believe A.
> Tullia objected to Patruus' link to a blog with Lucretius's opening
> to "De Rerum Naturum" a magnificent ode to Venus.
>
> ATS: I seriously doubt that that was the issue. The title of the post in
> question itself violated the Yahoo TOS, to say nothing about any other
> considerations. Patruus has apologized to me privately for posting such
> material, which is wholly inappropriate for any sodalitas list or any open
> list. Do what you want on the BA, but porn does not belong on Latinitas, or
> any other sodalitas list, nor does the reduction of a beautiful Latin song to
> the status of the soundtrack for filth. I have no objection to Lucretius; I
> read it in, I believe, third year college Latin...but this did not deal with
> Lucretius.
>
>
> When I posted a reply that the message below was inappropriate to
> a group devoted to Latin culture, I saw that it was not posted. When
> I tried to post again to Latinitas; I saw that my post was subject
> to moderation. What on earth is going on? This is an official Nova
> Roma Sodalitas.
>
> ATS: Yes, Latinitas is a private group affiliated with Nova Roma. We
> discuss Latin, not ecdysiasts gyrating to Latin songs. We all know that you
> have absolutely no sense of propriety, Hortensia, and wouldn¹t recognize it if
> it hit you in the face, but some of us know that adult material is not
> appropriate for open lists, and that some of us are severely offended by being
> made into sex objects. If you have no objection to being viewed as such, fine
> and dandy, but do it on the BA, please, not Latinitas or the ML.
>
> My message to Latinitas was in response to a post sent to the list, a post
> far beyond the pale, a post whose sender has apologized for sending it, a post
> which violates the Yahoo TOS and a post which violates the integrity of NORMAL
> women. It is also a post which has been deleted. My message does indeed
> belong on Latinitas to forestall any other such posts, but you had no damn
> business forwarding it to the ML, where this was not an issue until your sick
> desire to spew anything and everything out that strikes your fancy made it
> one. Let us know when and if you ever grow up.
>
> M. Hortensia Maior
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
>
> Valete.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia Scholasticae quiritibusque spd;
you know something I still haven't a clue what you are
going on about, & you wouldn't let me post my innocent question,
asking what's going on? Is the entire sodalitas moderated?

Latinitas is an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma. And frankly I have
no idea what an ecdysiast is. We have to sort out what is going on.
Your post was not proper, not for an official sodalitas, which is
why I posted it here.
M. Hortensia Maior

PS: Insulting me is ludicrous. I'm the one who has one year of fine
podcasts to show; you're the one ranting about 'whores' on the
Latinitas list. It's not proper!
.


, nor does the reduction of a beautiful Latin song to

> > the status of the soundtrack for filth. buy this did not deal

with Lucretius.

> >
> We> > discuss Latin, not ecdysiasts gyrating to Latin songs. We

all know that you

> > have absolutely no sense of propriety, Hortensia,
> > it hit you in the face, but some of us know that adult material

is not

> > appropriate for open lists, and that some of us are severely

offended by being

> > made into sex objects. If you have no objection to being viewed

as such, fine

> > and dandy, but do it on the BA, please, not Latinitas or the ML.
> >
> > My message to Latinitas was in response to a post sent to

the list, a post

> > far beyond the pale, a post whose sender has apologized for

sending it, a post

> > which violates the Yahoo TOS and a post which violates the

integrity of NORMAL

> > women. It is also a post which has been deleted. but you had

no damn business forwarding it to the ML, where this was not an
issue until your sick

> > desire to spew anything and everything out that strikes your

fancy made it

> > one. Let us know when and if you ever grow up.
> >
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> > http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word for "to
strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their clothes.

Valete:

Modianus

On 6/8/07, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia Scholasticae quiritibusque spd;
> you know something I still haven't a clue what you are
> going on about, & you wouldn't let me post my innocent question,
> asking what's going on? Is the entire sodalitas moderated?
>
> Latinitas is an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma. And frankly I have
> no idea what an ecdysiast is. We have to sort out what is going on.
> Your post was not proper, not for an official sodalitas, which is
> why I posted it here.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> PS: Insulting me is ludicrous. I'm the one who has one year of fine
> podcasts to show; you're the one ranting about 'whores' on the
> Latinitas list. It's not proper!
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem VI Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"The Mind has its own goddess too. I note a sanctuary
Was vowed to Mind, during the terror of war with you,
Perfidious Carthage. You broke the peace, and astonished
By the consul's death, all feared the Moorish army.
Fear had driven out hope, when the Senate made their vows
To Mind, and immediately she was better disposed to them.
The day when the vows to the goddess were fulfilled
Is separated by six days from the approaching Ides." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"The consul, while all were panic-struck, himself sufficiently
undaunted though in so perilous a case, marshals, as well as the time
and place permitted, the lines which were thrown into confusion by
each man's turning himself towards the various shouts; and wherever he
could approach or be heard exhorts them, and bids them stand and
fight: for that they could not escape thence by vows and prayers to
the gods but by exertion and valour; that a way was sometimes opened
by the sword through the midst of marshalled armies, and that
generally the less the fear the less the danger. However, from the
noise and tumult, neither his advice nor command could be caught; and
so far were the soldiers from knowing their own standards, and ranks,
and position, that they had scarce sufficient courage to take up arms
and make them ready for battle; and certain of them were surprised
before they could prepare them, being burdened rather than protected
by them; while in so great darkness there was more use of ears than of
eyes. They turned their faces and eyes in every direction towards the
groans of the wounded, the sounds of blows upon the body or arms, and
the mingled clamours of the menacing and the affrighted. Some, as they
were making their escape, were stopped, having encountered a body of
men engaged in fight; and bands of fugitives returning to the battle,
diverted others. After charges had been attempted unsuccessfully in
every direction, and on their flanks the mountains and the lake, on
the front and rear the lines of the enemy enclosed them, when it was
evident that there was no hope of safety but in the right hand and
the sword; then each man became to himself a leader, and encourager to
action; and an entirely new contest arose, not a regular line, with
principes, hastati, and triarii; nor of such a sort as that the
vanguard should fight before the standards, and the rest of the troops
behind them; nor such that each soldier should be in his own legion,
cohort, or company: chance collects them into bands; and each man's
own will assigned to him his post, whether to fight in front or rear;
and so great was the ardour of the conflict, so intent were their
minds upon the battle, that not one of the combatants felt an
earthquake which threw down large portions of many of the cities of
Italy, turned rivers from their rapid courses, carried the sea up into
rivers, and levelled mountains with a tremendous crash." - Livy,
History of Rome XXII.5

"On the same account great games were vowed, at an expense of three
hundred and thirty-three thousand three hundred and thirty-three asses
and a third; moreover, it was decreed that sacrifice should be done
to Jupiter with three hundred oxen, to many other deities with white
oxen and the other victims. The vows being duly made, a supplication
was proclaimed; and not only the inhabitants of the city went with
their wives and children, but such of the rustics also as, possessing
any property themselves, were interested in the welfare of the state.
Then a lectisternium was celebrated for three days, the decemviri
for sacred things superintending. Six couches were seen, for Jupiter
and Juno one, for Neptune and Minerva another, for Mars and Venus a
third, for Apollo and Diana a fourth, for Vulcan and Vesta a fifth,
for Mercury and Ceres a sixth. Then temples were vowed. To Venus
Erycina, Quintus Fabius Maximus vowed a temple; for so it was
delivered from the prophetic books, that he should vow it who held the
highest authority in the state. Titus Otacilius the praetor vowed a
temple to Mens." - op. cit. XXII.10

The ancient Romans honored the goddess Mens ("Mind") on this day, to
fulfill a vow undertaken after a defeat by Hannibal in 217 BC. In
spring 217 BC, fresh from his victories at Tecino and Trebbia,
Hannibal and his Carthaginian army overtook and passed the army of
Roman Consul Cais Flaminius heading south toward Rome itself.
Flaminius was forced to play catch-up and pursued incautiously.
Hannibal decided to lay an ambush before another Roman army commanded
by the co-Consul Servilius could arrive to reinforce Flaminius. This
he did by sending men to light fires on the far hills of Tuoro to
decieve the Romans that they were safely at a distance. Then he drew
up his army on the hills overlooking the narrow Chiana Valley and the
narrow Malpasso Road which ran along side Lake Trasimene (Trasimeno).
At the head of the valley, he posted light missile troops and his
Celtiberian allies to block the road.

The next morning, confident that the Carthaginians were still at a
distance and despite the heavy morning fog, Flaminius put his army
into march column without advance scouts and began the march along the
Malpasso road. The van was stopped when its lead cohort ran into a
hail of missiles from Hannibal's blocking force. Then Hannibal sent
his whole army forward in a general charge, which reached the Roman
column before it was able to fully deploy. The confused legionaries
were forced to fight in open order. The Roman column was split into
three groups. The rear broke quickly under the weight of Hannibal's
cavalry and was driven into the waters of Lake Trasimene where they
were slain or drown. The center, including Flaminius, stood their
ground, attempting to deploy, but were eventually cut down by
Hannibal's Gauls in heavy combat. Flaminius' body was never found. The
van stood by, apparently only lightly engaged by Hannibal's blocking
force of Africans and Spaniards, but once the mist cleared and the
extent of the defeat was clear, they cut their way through the hills,
many escaping the encirclement.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Livy, Wikipedia

Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano

Salve Fabius Modianus.

Hmmm...I have been known, on occasion, to remove my clothes. Often I
do so before showering or getting in to bed. Does this make me an
ecdysiast? Is this something I can put on my curriculum vitae? Or
should I be worried?

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word

for "to

> strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their

clothes.

>
> Valete:
>
> Modianus

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modinaus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

It would surely make an interesting curriculum vitae, but you might want to
add some music to your routine of clothing removal before showering maybe a
flute player or two. I would recommend avoiding electrical sound making
devices because I am sure you have a flair for the the ecdysiast lifestyle
and might accidently topple the electrical device into the water, such has
been known to happen after much ecdysiastic gyrations. Stick with the flute
players, and enjoy your pre-shower show. Regarding ecdysiastic endeavors
before bedtime, I think it might depend on who or what is waiting for you in
said bed to determine if its curriculum vitae material.

Vale:

Modianus

On 6/8/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano
>
> Salve Fabius Modianus.
>
> Hmmm...I have been known, on occasion, to remove my clothes. Often I
> do so before showering or getting in to bed. Does this make me an
> ecdysiast? Is this something I can put on my curriculum vitae? Or
> should I be worried?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "David
> Kling (Modianus)"
> <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
> >
> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
> >
> > An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word
> for "to
> > strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their
> clothes.
> >
> > Valete:
> >
> > Modianus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cato,

I think you should write a double dactyl about it.

-- Marinus

Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

> Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano
>
> Salve Fabius Modianus.
>
> Hmmm...I have been known, on occasion, to remove my clothes. Often I
> do so before showering or getting in to bed. Does this make me an
> ecdysiast? Is this something I can put on my curriculum vitae? Or
> should I be worried?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato

I have a 8:00pm appointment with my ecdysiast. She prefers the co-pay in
singles. At least the waiting room is interesting!

On 6/8/07, David Kling (Modianus) <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word for "to
> strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their
> clothes.
>
> Valete:
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

That's hot.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://minucia.ciarin.com

----- Original Message -----
From: David Kling (Modianus)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fwd from Latinitas: PROPRIETAS


Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word for "to
strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their clothes.

Valete:

Modianus


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Gn. Equitio Marino G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano omnibusque SPD

Salvete omnes!

<clears throat>

Higgledy-piggledy,
Gaius Equitius,
after a hard day of
work has been done,
runs the hot water then
ecdysiastically
beckons the
flute players -
let's start the fun!

Valete!

Cato

Salve Cato,

Well done! We've seen far too few of these from you recently.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

> Cato Gn. Equitio Marino G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano omnibusque SPD
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> <clears throat>
>
> Higgledy-piggledy,
> Gaius Equitius,
> after a hard day of
> work has been done,
> runs the hot water then
> ecdysiastically
> beckons the
> flute players -
> let's start the fun!
>
> Valete!
>
> Cato

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Outstanding! Thank you for making Nova Roma fun again!

Vale;

Modianus

On 6/8/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Gn. Equitio Marino G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano omnibusque SPD
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> <clears throat>
>
> Higgledy-piggledy,
> Gaius Equitius,
> after a hard day of
> work has been done,
> runs the hot water then
> ecdysiastically
> beckons the
> flute players -
> let's start the fun!
>
> Valete!
>
> Cato
> .
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Hortensiae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Scholasticae quiritibusque spd;
> you know something I still haven't a clue what you are
> going on about,
>
> ATS: Generally, most of us think that it is a REALLY good idea to know
> what we are talking about before spouting off on said topic(s).
>
> & you wouldn't let me post my innocent question,
> asking what's going on?
>
> ATS: What is going on is that a link to an totally inappropriate video
> sexual performance was posted. The poster apologized, but it was too late to
> prevent minors and disinterested parties from seeing this unless they read the
> list onsite, as you do.
>
> Is the entire sodalitas moderated?
>
> ATS: No, but it will be if I find this necessary.
>
> Latinitas is an official Sodalitas of Nova Roma. And frankly I have
> no idea what an ecdysiast is.
>
> ATS: I see that some of our other members have enlightened you on the
> meaning of this word of Greek origin.
>
>
> We have to sort out what is going on.
>
> ATS: Yes; you have to understand that this has NOTHING TO DO with the
> link to the blog featuring Lucretius, etc., but deals with vulgar sexual
> material not appropriate for an academic, Latin-oriented group. IT IS ALSO
> TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO THE ML. If you had had the good sense to keep your
> mouth shut, as any SENSIBLE person would have, the only people who would know
> about this are those on Latinitas. Further discussion of this matter on
> anyone¹s part will result in sanctions. Within a page or so of the members
> here, we have a fourteen year old and a seventeen year old; such matters are
> not appropriate to discuss here.
>
> Your post was not proper, not for an official sodalitas, which is
> why I posted it here.
>
> ATS: My post was wholly proper, and anyone who received that link would
> know that. My post was for their benefit. Moreover, you are not the arbiter
> proprietatis for Latinitas or anything else; you have no clue as to what is
> appropriate either in general or in specific circumstances, are not familiar
> with the post in question, and had no business compounding this issue by
> raising it here.
>
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> PS: Insulting me is ludicrous. I'm the one who has one year of fine
> podcasts to show; you're the one ranting about 'whores' on the
> Latinitas list. It's not proper!
>
> ATS: Hate to tell you this, Hortensia, but strippers ARE whores, and
> images of their gyrations ARE NOT APPROPRIATE on open lists. Moreover, I
> wouldn¹t brag about the podcasts; you can¹t even determine what is appropriate
> pronunciation of Latin, or that poetry should be scanned, not read as
> prose...hardly surprising when you have demonstrated your Romanitas by
> dropping at least four or five Latin classes you started...I have several
> students who have benefited from my Latin instruction, as has Avitus, but you
> chose to run away from both of us, and others, rather than do the work
> required to learn Latin.
>
> Valete.
> .
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque omnibus s.p.d.
>
>
> Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano
>
> Salve Fabius Modianus.
>
> Hmmm...I have been known, on occasion, to remove my clothes. Often I
> do so before showering or getting in to bed. Does this make me an
> ecdysiast?
>
> ATS: LOL! Only in the broadest sense of the term, amice. Generally,
> ecdysiasts prefer a paying audience of the opposite sex. Shockingly, I also
> remove my clothing upon occasion, notably before bathing, though normally I
> merely change it before retiring. I suggest that you and others avert their
> eyes should they come upon me even though I do not have hunting dogs or the
> like at my disposal, more deae Romanae, lest you and any others require the
> assistance of certain medications for the rest of your lives. My beauty is
> strictly mental, and the physical element might shock you too greatly for any
> subsequent activity of that sort to occur without the aid of blue pills.
>
>
> Is this something I can put on my curriculum vitae?
>
> ATS: I would advise against it unless you are looking for a position with
> Hef or Flynt, etc.
>
> Or
> should I be worried?
>
> ATS: Naw, though if you leave NYC, you might want to be really careful
> about when and where you do that...
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "David
> Kling (Modianus)"
> <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>> >
>> > An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word
> for "to
>> > strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their
> clothes.
>> >
>> > Valete:
>
>
> Valete.
>> >
>> > Modianus
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

I don't really want to get too embroiled in your debate with Hortensia but I
do have to take exception to your comment that "strippers ARE whores." I
disagree with this statement very much. I agree that strippers can be
whores and that whores can be strippers but disagree that they are synomous
with one another. A stripper is someone who removes their clothes for a
living and a whore is typically defined as someone who has intercourse with
someone for a living. The two are not the same as there are strippers who
freely remove their clothing and dance unclothed for profit which is legal
in most states in the United States and then there are people who have
intercourse for profit but do not necessarily remove all or any of their
clothing to do so, nor are they required to dance -- this is legal in at
least one state (Nevada) within the United States. I am sure there are
cases where someone could be a stripper and a whore, or a whore and a
stripper but it also follows that there are strippers who are not whores and
whores who are not strippers. These sorts of generalizations are not
effective because they are untrue. You may not like or respect strippers or
whores but the two are not identical in their function even though it seems
that they overlap because they deal with pleasure. However, watching a good
drama is also pleasureable, but I wouldn't consider an actor or actress
necessarily a whore or stripper because they too can cause pleasure.
Therefore, it seems that there is different types of pleasure. Stripping
solicits a visual for of pleasure, and whoredom another.

Additionally, I have had the pleasure (no pun intended) of attending several
different Hafla (or Middle Eastern dance programs) which involved fairly
elaborate types of middle eastern dance. There have been times when the
women (and one man I know) who performed would remove some, but not all
(remaining clothed in the "vital parts") of their clothing and then
proceeded to perform the intricate dance moves that is involved in Middle
Eastern dance. I am sure someone could make an argument that these women
are strippers (I would argue to the contrary), however, it does not follow
that they are whores. I can attest this for a fact, because I know several
women and one man who specialize in Middle Eastern dance and to the best of
my knowledge they do not accept money for intercourse.

Just pointing out my thoughts on this subject.

Vale:

Modianus

On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
>
> > ATS: Hate to tell you this, Hortensia, but strippers ARE whores, and
> > images of their gyrations ARE NOT APPROPRIATE on open lists. Moreover, I
> > wouldn¹t brag about the podcasts; you can¹t even determine what is
> appropriate
> > pronunciation of Latin, or that poetry should be scanned, not read as
> > prose...hardly surprising when you have demonstrated your Romanitas by
> > dropping at least four or five Latin classes you started...I have
> several
> > students who have benefited from my Latin instruction, as has Avitus,
> but you
> > chose to run away from both of us, and others, rather than do the work
> > required to learn Latin.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano C. Equitio Catoni
> quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modinaus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> It would surely make an interesting curriculum vitae,
>
> ATS: It sure would.
>
>
> but you might want to
> add some music to your routine of clothing removal before showering maybe a
> flute player or two.
>
> ATS: Definitely NOT the lovely Latin music to which this bit of dreck was
> performed.
>
>
> I would recommend avoiding electrical sound making
> devices because I am sure you have a flair for the the ecdysiast lifestyle
>
> ATS: Pore Cato does live in a clothing-optional part of the country,
> though I suspect that he may still have to wear that morning suit of his to
> work...
>
>
> and might accidently topple the electrical device into the water, such has
> been known to happen after much ecdysiastic gyrations. Stick with the flute
> players, and enjoy your pre-shower show. Regarding ecdysiastic endeavors
> before bedtime, I think it might depend on who or what is waiting for you in
> said bed to determine if its curriculum vitae material.
>
> ATS: Well, one could argue about that...in academia at least, neither
> ecdysiasis nor activities often typically conducted with another in a prone
> position carry a lot of weight for employment or other purposes.
>
> Vale:
>
> Modianus
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
> On 6/8/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...
> <mailto:mlcinnyc%40gmail.com> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Cato G. Fabio Buteoni Modiano
>> >
>> > Salve Fabius Modianus.
>> >
>> > Hmmm...I have been known, on occasion, to remove my clothes. Often I
>> > do so before showering or getting in to bed. Does this make me an
>> > ecdysiast? Is this something I can put on my curriculum vitae? Or
>> > should I be worried?
>> >
>> > Vale bene,
>> >
>> > Cato
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "David
>> > Kling (Modianus)"
>> > <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > > An ecdysiast is a stripper and the word comes from the Greek word
>> > for "to
>>> > > strip off." Therefore, an ecdysiast is someone who takes off their
>> > clothes.
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete:
>>> > >
>>> > > Modianus
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
here is the link to the youtube video: its funny & g-rated:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK2cAsXMn5w

May I ask one of our Censors,either G. Fabius Buteo Modianus or G.
Ocatvius Gracchus who are in charge of public morality to become the
2nd moderator of the Latinitas list? I think this is an acceptable
solution to all.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior

> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> I don't really want to get too embroiled in your debate with

Hortensia but I

> do have to take exception to your comment that "strippers ARE

whores." I

> disagree with this statement very much. I agree that strippers

can be

> whores and that whores can be strippers but disagree that they are

synomous

> with one another. A stripper is someone who removes their

clothes for a

> living and a whore is typically defined as someone who has

intercourse with

> someone for a living. The two are not the same as there are

strippers who

> freely remove their clothing and dance unclothed for profit which

is legal

> in most states in the United States and then there are people who

have

> intercourse for profit but do not necessarily remove all or any of

their

> clothing to do so, nor are they required to dance -- this is legal

in at

> least one state (Nevada) within the United States. I am sure

there are

> cases where someone could be a stripper and a whore, or a whore

and a

> stripper but it also follows that there are strippers who are not

whores and

> whores who are not strippers. These sorts of generalizations are

not

> effective because they are untrue. You may not like or respect

strippers or

> whores but the two are not identical in their function even though

it seems

> that they overlap because they deal with pleasure. However,

watching a good

> drama is also pleasureable, but I wouldn't consider an actor or

actress

> necessarily a whore or stripper because they too can cause

pleasure.

> Therefore, it seems that there is different types of pleasure.

Stripping

> solicits a visual for of pleasure, and whoredom another.
>
> Additionally, I have had the pleasure (no pun intended) of

attending several

> different Hafla (or Middle Eastern dance programs) which involved

fairly

> elaborate types of middle eastern dance. There have been times

when the

> women (and one man I know) who performed would remove some, but

not all

> (remaining clothed in the "vital parts") of their clothing and then
> proceeded to perform the intricate dance moves that is involved in

Middle

> Eastern dance. I am sure someone could make an argument that

these women

> are strippers (I would argue to the contrary), however, it does

not follow

> that they are whores. I can attest this for a fact, because I

know several

> women and one man who specialize in Middle Eastern dance and to

the best of

> my knowledge they do not accept money for intercourse.
>
> Just pointing out my thoughts on this subject.
>
> Vale:
>
> Modianus
>
> On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > ATS: Hate to tell you this, Hortensia, but strippers ARE

whores, and

> > > images of their gyrations ARE NOT APPROPRIATE on open lists.

Moreover, I

> > > wouldn¹t brag about the podcasts; you can¹t even determine

what is

> > appropriate
> > > pronunciation of Latin, or that poetry should be scanned, not

read as

> > > prose...hardly surprising when you have demonstrated your

Romanitas by

> > > dropping at least four or five Latin classes you started...I

have

> > several
> > > students who have benefited from my Latin instruction, as has

Avitus,

> > but you
> > > chose to run away from both of us, and others, rather than do

the work

> > > required to learn Latin.
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete omnes,

I'm a long standing member of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, and co-moderator of
the Latinitas mailing list. Also, as most here know, I've held a number of
curule magistracies in Nova Roma.

I've looked at the original post to Latinitas that Praetrix Scholastica
objects to. The YouTube video it links to is something you might see on MTV,
except for the singing being in Latin. It's no more racy than what can be
found on daytime television throughout the free world. I think that
Scholastica, acting as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, made a
decision that she certainly has the right to make but one that I personally
would disagree with. That said, she's the boss over there. While
Latinitatis is an official sodality, that doesn't mean that the elected
magistrates of Nova Roma have the right to override the actions of the
officers of the sodality.

Therefore:

a. I think M. Hortensia is being absurd in claiming that she has any right to
redress from the censores or anyone else.

b. I think A. Tullia Scholastica made an executive decision that she has
every right to make, but that I consider excessive.

c. I think there's no basis to continue this discussion about the private
business of a sodality outside the mailing lists of the sodality.

Valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I didn't see anything offensive about that video. I don't see anything
objectionable about the video, and I surely wouldn't have a problem with
minors watching the video. These are women singing in Latin that are
performers, its not uncommon to see this sort of thing and while it was a
"little" risque I don't think it is any worse than what you would see on
television (and I don't mean cable television).

Not sure I want to moderate any lists, that is the purview of the Praetors.
But I don't think something like this should have been moderated. That is
simply my opinion.

Valete;

Modianus

On 6/8/07, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> here is the link to the youtube video: its funny & g-rated:)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK2cAsXMn5w
>
> May I ask one of our Censors,either G. Fabius Buteo Modianus or G.
> Ocatvius Gracchus who are in charge of public morality to become the
> 2nd moderator of the Latinitas list? I think this is an acceptable
> solution to all.
> bene valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
> >
> > I don't really want to get too embroiled in your debate with
> Hortensia but I
> > do have to take exception to your comment that "strippers ARE
> whores." I
> > disagree with this statement very much. I agree that strippers
> can be
> > whores and that whores can be strippers but disagree that they are
> synomous
> > with one another. A stripper is someone who removes their
> clothes for a
> > living and a whore is typically defined as someone who has
> intercourse with
> > someone for a living. The two are not the same as there are
> strippers who
> > freely remove their clothing and dance unclothed for profit which
> is legal
> > in most states in the United States and then there are people who
> have
> > intercourse for profit but do not necessarily remove all or any of
> their
> > clothing to do so, nor are they required to dance -- this is legal
> in at
> > least one state (Nevada) within the United States. I am sure
> there are
> > cases where someone could be a stripper and a whore, or a whore
> and a
> > stripper but it also follows that there are strippers who are not
> whores and
> > whores who are not strippers. These sorts of generalizations are
> not
> > effective because they are untrue. You may not like or respect
> strippers or
> > whores but the two are not identical in their function even though
> it seems
> > that they overlap because they deal with pleasure. However,
> watching a good
> > drama is also pleasureable, but I wouldn't consider an actor or
> actress
> > necessarily a whore or stripper because they too can cause
> pleasure.
> > Therefore, it seems that there is different types of pleasure.
> Stripping
> > solicits a visual for of pleasure, and whoredom another.
> >
> > Additionally, I have had the pleasure (no pun intended) of
> attending several
> > different Hafla (or Middle Eastern dance programs) which involved
> fairly
> > elaborate types of middle eastern dance. There have been times
> when the
> > women (and one man I know) who performed would remove some, but
> not all
> > (remaining clothed in the "vital parts") of their clothing and then
> > proceeded to perform the intricate dance moves that is involved in
> Middle
> > Eastern dance. I am sure someone could make an argument that
> these women
> > are strippers (I would argue to the contrary), however, it does
> not follow
> > that they are whores. I can attest this for a fact, because I
> know several
> > women and one man who specialize in Middle Eastern dance and to
> the best of
> > my knowledge they do not accept money for intercourse.
> >
> > Just pointing out my thoughts on this subject.
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > ATS: Hate to tell you this, Hortensia, but strippers ARE
> whores, and
> > > > images of their gyrations ARE NOT APPROPRIATE on open lists.
> Moreover, I
> > > > wouldn¹t brag about the podcasts; you can¹t even determine
> what is
> > > appropriate
> > > > pronunciation of Latin, or that poetry should be scanned, not
> read as
> > > > prose...hardly surprising when you have demonstrated your
> Romanitas by
> > > > dropping at least four or five Latin classes you started...I
> have
> > > several
> > > > students who have benefited from my Latin instruction, as has
> Avitus,
> > > but you
> > > > chose to run away from both of us, and others, rather than do
> the work
> > > > required to learn Latin.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marca Hortensia,

Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest in the
goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the concept of
'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.

Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would strongly
object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate to abrogate
the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would find a lot
of support for my position.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Maior <rory12001@...> writes:

> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> here is the link to the youtube video: its funny & g-rated:)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK2cAsXMn5w
>
> May I ask one of our Censors,either G. Fabius Buteo Modianus or G.
> Ocatvius Gracchus who are in charge of public morality to become the
> 2nd moderator of the Latinitas list? I think this is an acceptable
> solution to all.
> bene valete
> M. Hortensia Maior

M. Hortensia G. Equitio Marino spd;
*sigh* Johannes Patruus a long-standing member of the sodalitas
& fine Latinist, a person who posts Vatican Latin mass videos! just
resigned from the Sodalitas due to receiving very unpleasant emails
from Scholastica. He told me. He's very upset and insulted. I asked
him to return and he won't.
Bassus resigned, so Latinitas is lacking another moderator. I'd
hoped for the censors, but I'll run, though I would prefer someone
else, perhaps you Marine. I'm sure there is a vade mecum, that will
preserve the Sodalitas.
Maior

> Salvete omnes,
>
> I'm a long standing member of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, and co-

moderator of

> the Latinitas mailing list. Also, as most here know, I've held a

number of

> curule magistracies in Nova Roma.
>
> I've looked at the original post to Latinitas that Praetrix

Scholastica

> objects to. The YouTube video it links to is something you might

see on MTV,

> except for the singing being in Latin. It's no more racy than

what can be

> found on daytime television throughout the free world. I think

that

> Scholastica, acting as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis,

made a

> decision that she certainly has the right to make but one that I

personally

> would disagree with. That said, she's the boss over there. While
> Latinitatis is an official sodality, that doesn't mean that the

elected

> magistrates of Nova Roma have the right to override the actions of

the

> officers of the sodality.
>
> Therefore:
>
> a. I think M. Hortensia is being absurd in claiming that she has

any right to

> redress from the censores or anyone else.
>
> b. I think A. Tullia Scholastica made an executive decision that

she has

> every right to make, but that I consider excessive.
>
> c. I think there's no basis to continue this discussion about the

private

> business of a sodality outside the mailing lists of the sodality.
>
> Valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>

Salve Gnae Equitio;
Latinitas is lacking a moderator, I just suggested the
Censors, as a vade mecum palatable to Scholastica to stop the
fighting.

When I saw Modianus's post, I just sighed & posted that I would run
for the 2nd moderator post over at Latinitas, but Scholastica won't
post it!

I'd love it if you were to run for moderator there & not me. I don't
want a fight. I just don't want members resigning & the other
unpleasantness. *ehsu*
Maior

>
> Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest

in the

> goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the

concept of

> 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
>
> Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would

strongly

> object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate

to abrogate

> the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would

find a lot

> of support for my position.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Maior <rory12001@...> writes:
>
> > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > here is the link to the youtube video: its funny & g-rated:)
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK2cAsXMn5w
> >
> > May I ask one of our Censors,either G. Fabius Buteo Modianus or

G.

> > Ocatvius Gracchus who are in charge of public morality to become

the

> > 2nd moderator of the Latinitas list? I think this is an

acceptable

> > solution to all.
> > bene valete
> > M. Hortensia Maior
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Equitio Marino salutem dicit

I cannot speak for my colleague, but I have no interest in getting involved
in Sodalitas Latinitatis affairs other than to make the claim that I do not
think the video in question was offensive -- at least it wasn't offensive to
me. It apparently was offensive to Scholastica, but I'm not sure her
reaction to the video was the best course of action. Again, this is my
opinion. I trust the officers of the Sodalitas Latinitatis are fully
capable of addressing the situation.

Vale:

Modianus

On 6/8/07, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Marca Hortensia,
>
> Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest in the
> goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the concept of
> 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
>
> Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would
> strongly
> object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate to
> abrogate
> the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would find a lot
> of support for my position.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus s.p.d.
>
>
>
> Salve Marca Hortensia,
>
> Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest in the
> goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the concept of
> 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
>
> ATS: Apparently Hortensia is unaware that the business of any sodality
> does not belong on the ML, whatever her quarrel with anything that occurs in
> any of our sodalitates. Indeed, whatever the source of her latest rantings,
> she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many things,
> particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is foreign territory.
>
> Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.
>
> Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would strongly
> object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate to abrogate
> the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would find a lot
> of support for my position.
>
> ATS: And I am sure that you would. Hortensia had absolutely NO business
> forwarding matters of Latinitas business here, and further had no business
> forwarding the link to the video to any open list. She lacks any sense of
> propriety and should be prevented from posting to anything but the BA.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>
> Valete.
>
> Maior <rory12001@... <mailto:rory12001%40yahoo.com> > writes:
>> >
>> > May I ask one of our Censors,either G. Fabius Buteo Modianus or G.
>> > Ocatvius Gracchus who are in charge of public morality to become the
>> > 2nd moderator of the Latinitas list? I think this is an acceptable
>> > solution to all.
>> > bene valete
>> > M. Hortensia Maior
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Hortensiae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia G. Equitio Marino spd;
> *sigh* Johannes Patruus a long-standing member of the sodalitas
> & fine Latinist, a person who posts Vatican Latin mass videos! just
> resigned from the Sodalitas due to receiving very unpleasant emails
> from Scholastica.
>
> ATS: He received two notes from me, the first of which informed him that
> his post was inappropriate, and for which he apologized. The second informed
> him that he had been put on moderation as a result of this. There was nothing
> unpleasant about this.
>
>
> He told me. He's very upset and insulted. I asked
> him to return and he won't.
> Bassus resigned, so Latinitas is lacking another moderator. I'd
> hoped for the censors, but I'll run, though I would prefer someone
> else, perhaps you Marine. I'm sure there is a vade mecum, that will
> preserve the Sodalitas.
>
> ATS: FYI, Hortensia: Marinus already IS a moderator on Latinitas as
> decurio of the third decuria. We very, very rarely have any problems there,
> and I would never have suspected that someone of Patruus¹ age would be so
> lacking in good sense that he would post inappropriate material...and yes,
> anything on a public list with the name striptease is inappropriate.
>
> The Sodalitas is doing just fine, thank you; it is not under attack...but
> your lack of good judgment is coming out in the very fact that you think that
> the censores, or anyone else, has the right to moderate a sodalitas list or
> otherwise interfere in sodalitas business.
>
>
> Ex officio: further discussion of Sodalitas Latinitatis business here
> will result in sanctions.
>
> You, Hortensia, had ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS posting sodality business here
> or on any other list. As Marinus said, it doesn¹t belong outside of the
> sodalitas mailing list.
>
>
> Maior
>
>> > Salvete omnes,
>> >
>> > I'm a long standing member of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, and co-
> moderator of
>> > the Latinitas mailing list. Also, as most here know, I've held a
> number of
>> > curule magistracies in Nova Roma.
>> >
>> > I've looked at the original post to Latinitas that Praetrix
> Scholastica
>> > objects to. The YouTube video it links to is something you might
> see on MTV,
>> > except for the singing being in Latin. It's no more racy than
> what can be
>> > found on daytime television throughout the free world. I think
> that
>> > Scholastica, acting as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis,
> made a
>> > decision that she certainly has the right to make but one that I
> personally
>> > would disagree with. That said, she's the boss over there. While
>> > Latinitatis is an official sodality, that doesn't mean that the
> elected
>> > magistrates of Nova Roma have the right to override the actions of
> the
>> > officers of the sodality.
>> >
>> > Therefore:
>> >
>> > a. I think M. Hortensia is being absurd in claiming that she has
> any right to
>> > redress from the censores or anyone else.
>> >
>> > b. I think A. Tullia Scholastica made an executive decision that
> she has
>> > every right to make, but that I consider excessive.
>> >
>> > c. I think there's no basis to continue this discussion about the
> private
>> > business of a sodality outside the mailing lists of the sodality.
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>> >
>
> Valete.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Aula Tullia, et salvete omnes,

"A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> writes:

> she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many things,
> particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is foreign territory.

Your own ethics are suspect in this Praetrix. While I acknowledge that
Hortensia often lacks discernment in her judgement, you are engaging in an
abuse of your authority and imperium.

> Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.

Oh? Are you going to sanction me? Because I say *this* is wrong, and I hope
your colleague will pronounce intercessio against you as soon as he sees it.

Valete,

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

"Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions."

I caution you to use restrain when considering threats like this. What sort
of sanction will result? Will you place a Censor on moderated status for
disagreeing with your action and for disagreeing with your opinion on this
video?

Vale:

Modianus

On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus s.p.d.
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Marca Hortensia,
> >
> > Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest in the
> > goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the concept
> of
> > 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
> >
> > ATS: Apparently Hortensia is unaware that the business of any sodality
> > does not belong on the ML, whatever her quarrel with anything that
> occurs in
> > any of our sodalitates. Indeed, whatever the source of her latest
> rantings,
> > she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many things,
> > particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is foreign territory.
> >
> > Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.
> >
> > Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would
> strongly
> > object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate to
> abrogate
> > the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would find a
> lot
> > of support for my position.
> >
> > ATS: And I am sure that you would. Hortensia had absolutely NO business
> > forwarding matters of Latinitas business here, and further had no
> business
> > forwarding the link to the video to any open list. She lacks any sense
> of
> > propriety and should be prevented from posting to anything but the BA.
> >
> > Vale
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnes SPD

Salvete omnes!

Woohoo what a tempest in a teapot! OK, quirites, this is the view
from Cato's corner.

First, I thought the video was funny; absolutely no worse than can be
seen on dozens of television shows - and for that matter on the
street or in Central Park in the summer here in NYC.

Second, Scholastica has every right to do whatever she wants on her
own sodalitas List; whether or not she over-reacted is a moot point.

Third, this discussion can go on *here* as long as the people
involved in it want; any attempt to strangle it will meet with my
wroth. I love that word, "wroth". It just *sounds* ominous.

Vaslete bene,

Cato

P.S. - I may be inspired to double-dactyly by this whole run of
events :-) GEC

M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.

I have seen several times here in the recent past mention (in a
negative way, too) of the academic performance of a citizen or
citizens by a person or persons involved with the teaching of classes
with Nova Roma.

I find this sort of thing to be distasteful in the extreme and I would
urge all persons in the role of instructor to exercise extreme
restraint in this matter. In short, academic performance should never
be disclosed in public.

There are places and venues in which this sort of disclosure would be
illegal. Public school teachers in the USA in general know this to be
the case. In a greater sense, most educators would agree that the
right of the student to privacy trumps all other concerns. In a
specific sense, this sort of public disclosure works at
counter-purpose to the educational goal of Nova Roma.

Adult education is fraught with difficulties. There are many good
reasons why adults often fail to finish classes. These reasons are
often quite private. If we do not protect the privacy of grades,
indeed, if we permit instructors to post negative personal remarks in
connection with the disclosure of grades, this can only serve as a
disincentive to study in our Res Publica.

To repeat, I call on all instructors to regard the academic
performance of students as utterly confidential. I further call on the
citizens and those in authority to treat any breaches of this sort of
confidentiality as major transgressions of propriety.

optime valete in pace deorum

Salve Cato,

Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

[stuff -- thank you]

> P.S. - I may be inspired to double-dactyly by this whole run of
> events :-) GEC

Higgeldy Piggeldy
Cato the Praetor
Double-dactylicly
Formats his poems
One can but wonder
If Cato the Censor
Did the same thing
In the Forum of Rome?

Vale!

CN•EQVIT•MARINVS

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> "Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions."
>
> I caution you to use restrain when considering threats like this. What sort
> of sanction will result? Will you place a Censor on moderated status for
> disagreeing with your action and for disagreeing with your opinion on this
> video?
>
> ATS: No, of course not, but a discussion of internal business of any
> sodalitas does not belong on the ML. It never should have been brought here
> as it does not concern the ML or Nova Roma as a whole. Only in Maior¹s mind
> does it have any relevance to the ML, in which she is seriously in error.
> Moreover, this has gone on more than long enough here. It¹s time to wrap this
> up.
>
> Vale:
>
> Modianus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
>> >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus s.p.d.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Marca Hortensia,
>>> > >
>>> > > Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an interest in the
>>> > > goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand the concept
>> > of
>>> > > 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Apparently Hortensia is unaware that the business of any sodality
>>> > > does not belong on the ML, whatever her quarrel with anything that
>> > occurs in
>>> > > any of our sodalitates. Indeed, whatever the source of her latest
>> > rantings,
>>> > > she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many things,
>>> > > particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is foreign territory.
>>> > >
>>> > > Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.
>>> > >
>>> > > Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis, *I* would
>> > strongly
>>> > > object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule magistrate to
>> > abrogate
>>> > > the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I would find a
>> > lot
>>> > > of support for my position.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: And I am sure that you would. Hortensia had absolutely NO business
>>> > > forwarding matters of Latinitas business here, and further had no
>> > business
>>> > > forwarding the link to the video to any open list. She lacks any sense
>> > of
>>> > > propriety and should be prevented from posting to anything but the BA.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
who says we cannot discuss what's happening at Latinitas? I've
cross- posted from Latinitas over the years, also from the Religio
Romana group. No problem. Until now.
Here's a copy of the charter that was posted, I see nothing
about a secret society.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas/message/4552

And we will be having elections for another moderator. I wrote to
run for the job. And it hasn't been posted. It's a Sodalitas to
promote latin & latinity not the Joe McCarthy Society. I asked
Patruus to join Vox Romana, we could use a good Latinist like him.
Marca Hortensia Maior
http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
producer 'Vox Romana'




? Will you place a Censor on moderated status for

> > disagreeing with your action and for disagreeing with your

opinion on this

> > video?
> >
> > ATS: No, of course not, but a discussion of internal

business of any

> > sodalitas does not belong on the ML. It never should have been

brought here

> > as it does not concern the ML or Nova Roma as a whole. Only in

Maior¹s mind

> > does it have any relevance to the ML, in which she is seriously

in error.

> > Moreover, this has gone on more than long enough here. It¹s

time to wrap this

> > up.
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> > On 6/8/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> > <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus

s.p.d.

> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Salve Marca Hortensia,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Why in the world do you think the Censors should take an

interest in the

> >>> > > goings on of a private sodality? I think you misunderstand

the concept

> >> > of
> >>> > > 'public morality' which the censors are charged to uphold.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: Apparently Hortensia is unaware that the business of

any sodality

> >>> > > does not belong on the ML, whatever her quarrel with

anything that

> >> > occurs in
> >>> > > any of our sodalitates. Indeed, whatever the source of her

latest

> >> > rantings,
> >>> > > she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many

things,

> >>> > > particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is

foreign territory.

> >>> > >
> >>> > > Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Furthermore, as an officer of the Sodalitas Latinitatis,

*I* would

> >> > strongly
> >>> > > object to any attempt by a censor or any other curule

magistrate to

> >> > abrogate
> >>> > > the authority of the officers of the sodality. I'm sure I

would find a

> >> > lot
> >>> > > of support for my position.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: And I am sure that you would. Hortensia had

absolutely NO business

> >>> > > forwarding matters of Latinitas business here, and further

had no

> >> > business
> >>> > > forwarding the link to the video to any open list. She

lacks any sense

> >> > of
> >>> > > propriety and should be prevented from posting to anything

but the BA.

> >>> > >
> >>> > > Vale
> >> >
> >> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Aula Tullia, et salvete omnes,
>
> "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@... <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com>
> > writes:
>
>> > she misunderstands public morality as well as a great many things,
>> > particularly in the area of ethics, which to her is foreign territory.
>
> Your own ethics are suspect in this Praetrix. While I acknowledge that
> Hortensia often lacks discernment in her judgement, you are engaging in an
> abuse of your authority and imperium.
>
> ATS: I don¹t think so. Academic lists can do very well without
> raunchiness. For that, there is the BA. My own ethics tell me the difference
> between right and wrong, and what is appropriate on sodalitas boards, inter
> alia.
>
>> > Further discussion on this topic will result in sanctions.
>
> Oh? Are you going to sanction me? Because I say *this* is wrong, and I hope
> your colleague will pronounce intercessio against you as soon as he sees it.
>
> ATS: Since when are praetores not allowed to close discussion on a topic,
> especially one which, as you yourself noted, does not belong on this board?
>
> Valete,
>
> CN•EQVIT•MARINVS
>
> Vale, et valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Hortensiae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> who says we cannot discuss what's happening at Latinitas?
>
> ATS: Private sodalitas business is not the concern of other lists, let
> alone the ML. If you were so interested in posting what was going on in
> Latinitas, why didn¹t you post the information on the Assimil translation? Or
> Avitus¹ and Cordus¹ dialog on hypothetical names in Roman law? Now, those
> would be perfectly legitimate cross posts...
>
> I've
> cross- posted from Latinitas over the years, also from the Religio
> Romana group.
>
> ATS: Of course you don¹t see the difference between cross posting
> information of academic interest and in the improper posting of the private
> business of a sodality.
>
>
> No problem. Until now.
> Here's a copy of the charter that was posted, I see nothing
> about a secret society.
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas/message/4552
>
> ATS: So who said it was? It is, however, not appropriate to share the
> business details of one group with another.
>
> And we will be having elections for another moderator.
>
> ATS: The magistri of the sodalitas are not necessarily both moderators.
> They have other duties.
>
>
> Marca Hortensia Maior
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
> producer 'Vox Romana'
>
> Valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato omnes SPD
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> Woohoo what a tempest in a teapot!
>
> ATS; It¹s a big teapot, amice!
>
>
> OK, quirites, this is the view
> from Cato's corner.
>
> First, I thought the video was funny; absolutely no worse than can be
> seen on dozens of television shows - and for that matter on the
> street or in Central Park in the summer here in NYC.
>
> Second, Scholastica has every right to do whatever she wants on her
> own sodalitas List; whether or not she over-reacted is a moot point.
>
> ATS: As it happened, this inappropriate item was not even moderated as
> the poster seemed safe; the only members who did not receive this piece of
> trash were those who, like Hortensia, read the list onsite. Such stuff may
> fly on the BA and in NYC, but others do not find the degradation of either
> human sexuality or of womankind or of a lovely Latin song even vaguely
> amusing.
>
> Third, this discussion can go on *here* as long as the people
> involved in it want; any attempt to strangle it will meet with my
> wroth. I love that word, "wroth". It just *sounds* ominous.
>
> ATS: Anything useful on this topic has already been said...and this
> should never have arisen here. It¹s time to cut the thread.
>
> Now, methinks that wroth is an adjective, and wrath is the noun: he waxed
> wroth...it does sound ominous, doesn¹t it?
>
> Vaslete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> P.S. - I may be inspired to double-dactyly by this whole run of
> events :-) GEC
>
> ATS: We have missed your double-dactyls, especially since there are so
> many more deserving incidents...
>
> Vale, et valete.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

The Sodalitas Latinitatis was approved by the Senate of Nova Roma. It is
not a "private" Sodalitas, but a Sodalitas of Nova Roma. The Sodalitas
Latinitatis is not your personal fifedom to do as you wish, it has (at least
according to the NR site) documents that govern its existance. I have
illustrated to you that I do not agree with your assessement of the video or
your handling of the situation, the video seems tame. I do consider myself
a feminist and my wife (Gaia Octavia Oceana) does as well and both of us are
in agreement that the video is tame.

A very interesting article on "Feminism in strip clubs" can be found here:
http://www.marmaladya.com/london-everywhere/features/features-forum/feminism-strip-clubs/

There are different "waves" and types of Feminism. You seem, at least to
me, to speak for all of Feminism when you speak out against the video. I,
as a "3rd Wave Feminist" look at gender, sexuality, et al., much differently
than you do. Such is the conflict when 3rd Wave meets with 2nd Wave
Feminists.

This "Nova Roma Debate" was interesting and in some ways enlightening. It
seemed about time for a controversy, its been too silent as of late.
However, I've pretty much said what I feel I needed to say.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 6/9/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Hortensiae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> > who says we cannot discuss what's happening at Latinitas?
> >
> > ATS: Private sodalitas business is not the concern of other lists, let
> > alone the ML. If you were so interested in posting what was going on in
> > Latinitas, why didn¹t you post the information on the Assimil
> translation? Or
> > Avitus¹ and Cordus¹ dialog on hypothetical names in Roman law? Now,
> those
> > would be perfectly legitimate cross posts...
> >
> > I've
> > cross- posted from Latinitas over the years, also from the Religio
> > Romana group.
> >
> > ATS: Of course you don¹t see the difference between cross posting
> > information of academic interest and in the improper posting of the
> private
> > business of a sodality.
> >
> >
> > No problem. Until now.
> > Here's a copy of the charter that was posted, I see nothing
> > about a secret society.
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas/message/4552
> >
> > ATS: So who said it was? It is, however, not appropriate to share the
> > business details of one group with another.
> >
> > And we will be having elections for another moderator.
> >
> > ATS: The magistri of the sodalitas are not necessarily both moderators.
> > They have other duties.
> >
> >
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
> > http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/
> > producer 'Vox Romana'
> >
> > Valete.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem V Idus Iunius; haec dies nefastus est.

"Vesta, favour me! I'll open my lips now in your service,
If I'm indeed allowed to attend your sacred rites.
I was rapt in prayer: I felt the heavenly deity,
And the happy earth shone with radiant light.
Not that I saw you, goddess (away with poets' lies!)
Nor were you to be looked on by any man:
But I knew what I'd not known, and the errors
I'd held to were corrected without instruction.
They say Rome had celebrated the Parilia forty times,
When the goddess, the Guardian of the Flame, was received
In her shrine, the work of Numa, that peace-loving king,
(None more god-fearing was ever born in Sabine lands.)
The roofs you see of bronze were roofs of straw then,
And its walls were made of wickerwork.
This meagre spot that supports the Hall of Vesta
Was then the mighty palace of unshorn Numa.
Yet the form of the temple, that remains, they say,
Is as before, and is shaped so for good reason.
Vesta's identified with Earth: in them both's unsleeping fire:
Earth and the hearth are both symbols of home.
The Earth's a ball not resting on any support,
It's great weight hangs in the ether around it.
Its own revolutions keep its orb balanced,
It has no sharp angles to press on anything,
And it's placed in the midst of the heavens,
And isn't nearer or further from any side,
For if it weren't convex, it would be nearer somewhere,
And the universe wouldn't have Earth's weight at its centre.
There's a globe suspended, enclosed by Syracusan art,
That's a small replica of the vast heavens,
And the Earth's equidistant from top and bottom.
Which is achieved by its spherical shape.
The form of this temple's the same: there's no angle
Projecting from it: a rotunda saves it from the rain.
You ask why the goddess is served by virgins?
I'll reveal the true reason for that as well.
They say that Juno and Ceres were born of Ops
By Saturn's seed, Vesta was the third daughter:
The others married, both bore children they say,
The third was always unable to tolerate men.
What wonder if a virgin delights in virgin servants,
And only allows chaste hands to touch her sacred relics?
Realize that Vesta is nothing but living flame,
And you'll see that no bodies are born from her.
She's truly a virgin, who neither accepts seed
Nor yields it, and she loves virgin companions.
I foolishly thought for ages that there were statues
Of Vesta, later I learnt there were none beneath her dome:
An undying fire is concealed with the shrine,
But there's no image of Vesta or of fire.
The earth's supported by its energy: Vesta's so called from `depending
On energy' (vi stando), and that could be the reason for her Greek
ame. But the hearth (focus) is named from its fire that warms (fovet)
all things:
Formerly it stood in the most important room.
I think the vestibule was so called from Vesta too:
In praying we address Vesta first, who holds first place.
It was once the custom to sit on long benches by the fire,
And believe the gods were present at the meal:
Even now in sacrificing to ancient Vacuna,
They sit and stand in front of her altar hearths.
Something of ancient custom has passed to us:
A clean dish contains the food offered to Vesta.
See, loaves are hung from garlanded mules,
And flowery wreaths veil the rough millstones.
Once farmers only used to parch wheat in their ovens,
(And the goddess of ovens has her sacred rites):
The hearth baked the bread, set under the embers,
On a broken tile placed there on the heated floor.
So the baker honours the hearth, and the lady of hearths,
And the she-ass that turns the pumice millstones.
Red-faced Priapus shall I tell of your shame or pass by?
It's a brief tale but it's a merry one.
Cybele, whose head is crowned with towers,
Called the eternal gods to her feast.
She invited the satyrs too, and those rural divinities,
The nymphs, and Silenus came, though no one asked him.
It's forbidden, and would take too long, to describe the banquet
Of the gods: the whole night was spent drinking deep.
Some wandered aimlessly in Ida's shadowy vales,
Some lay, and stretched their limbs, on the soft grass.
Some played, some slept, others linked arms
And beat swift feet threefold on the grassy earth.
Vesta lay carelessly, enjoying a peaceful rest,
Her head reclining, resting on the turf.
But the red-faced keeper of gardens chased the nymphs
And goddesses, and his roving feet turned to and fro.
He saw Vesta too: it's doubtful whether he thought her
A nymph, or knew her as Vesta: he himself denied he knew.
He had wanton hopes, and tried to approach her in secret,
And walked on tiptoe, with a pounding heart.
Old Silenus had chanced to leave the mule
He rode by the banks of a flowing stream.
The god of the long Hellespont was about to start,
When the mule let out an untimely bray.
Frightened by the raucous noise, the goddess leapt up:
The whole troop gathered, and Priapus fled through their hands.
The people of Lampsacus sacrifice this animal to him, singing:
`Rightly we give the innards of the witness to the flames.'
Goddess, you deck the creature with necklaces of loaves,
In remembrance: work ceases: the empty mills fall silent.
I'll explain the meaning of an altar of Jove the Baker
That stands on the Thunderer's citadel, more famous
For name than worth. The Capitol was surrounded
By fierce Gauls: the siege had already caused a famine.
Summoning the gods to his royal throne,
Jupiter said to Mars: `Begin!' and he quickly replied:
`My people's plight is surely unknown,
A grief that needs a voice of heartfelt complaint.
But if I'm to tell a sad and shameful tale in brief,
Rome lies under the feet of an Alpine enemy.
Jupiter, is this the Rome that was promised power
Over the world! Rome, the mistress of the earth?
She'd crushed the neighbouring cities, and the Etruscans:
Hope was rampant: now she's driven from her home.
We've seen old men, dressed in embroidered robes
Of triumph, murdered in their bronze-clad halls:
We've seen Ilian Vesta's sacred pledges hurried
From their place: some clearly think of the gods.
But if they look back at the citadel you hold,
And see so many of your homes under siege,
They'll think worship of the gods is vain,
And incense from a fearful hand thrown away.
If only they'd an open field of battle! Let them arm,
And if they can't be victorious, let them die.
Now without food, and dreading a cowardly death,
They're penned on their hill, pressed by a barbarous mob.'
Then Venus, and Vesta, and glorious Quirinus with auger's staff
And striped gown, pleaded on behalf of their Latium.
Jupiter replied: `There's a common concern for those walls.
And the Gauls will be defeated and receive punishment.
But you, Vesta, mustn't leave your place, and see to it
That the bread that's lacking be considered plentiful.
Let whatever grain is left be ground in a hollow mill,
Kneaded by hand, and then baked in a hot oven.'
He gave his orders, and Saturn's virgin daughter
Obeyed his command, as the hour reached midnight.
Now sleep had overcome the weary leaders: Jupiter
Rebuked them, and spoke his wishes from holy lips:
`Rise, and from the heights of the citadel, throw down
Among the enemy, the last thing you'd wish to yield!'
They shook off sleep, and troubled by the strange command,
Asked themselves what they must yield, unwillingly.
It seemed it must be bread: They threw down the gifts
Of Ceres, clattering on the enemy helms and shields.
The expectation that they could be starved out vanished.
The foe was repulsed, and a bright altar raised to Jove the Baker.
On the festival of Vesta, I happened to be returning
By the recent path that joins the New Way to the Forum.
There I saw a lady descending barefoot:
Astonished, I was silent and stopped short.
An old woman from the neighbourhood saw me: and telling
Me to sit, spoke to me in a quavering voice, shaking her head:
`Here, where the forums are now, was marshy swamp:
A ditch was wet with the overflow from the river.
That lake of Curtius, that supports the altars un-wet,
Is solid enough now, but was a pool of water once.
Where processions file through the Velabrum to the Circus,
There was nothing but willow and hollow reeds:
Often some guest returning over suburban waters,
Sang out, and hurled drunken words at the boatmen.
That god, Vertumnus, whose name fits many forms,
Wasn't yet so-called from damning back the river (averso amne).
Here too was a thicket of bulrushes and reeds,
And a marsh un-trodden by booted feet.
The pools are gone, and the river keeps its banks,
And the ground's dry now: but the custom remains.'
So she explained it. I said: `Farewell, good dame!
May whatever of life remains to you be sweet.'
I'd already heard the rest of the tale in boyhood,
But I won't pass over it in silence on that account.
Ilus, scion of Dardanus, had founded a new city
(Ilus was still rich, holding the wealth of Asia)
A sky-born image of armed Minerva was said
To have fallen on the hillside near to Troy.
(I was anxious to see it: I saw the temple and the site,
That's all that's left there: Rome has the Palladium.)
Apollo Smintheus was consulted, and gave this answer
From truthful lips, in the darkness of his shadowy grove:
`Preserve the heavenly goddess, and preserve
The City: with her goes the capital of empire.'" - Ovid, Fasti VI

Today is the celebration of the Vestalia, in honor of the goddes
Vesta. Interestingly enough, Romans did not portray Vesta, at her
altar, in statuary. The flame of the hearth, instead, symbolized her
presence. They did portray both Vesta and Vestals elsewhere (e.g., a
row of statues outside the House of the Vestals). At home, the Roman
family gathered once a day to offer Vesta a sacrifice. The Temple of
Vesta was located in a small round building in the Forum (which thus
served as the hearth of the Roman community). Technically speaking ,
the building was not a "temple," but a "house." Romans believed the
fire should never go out.

A priestess-hood of specially chosen women (all virgins) were devoted
to Vesta and supervised her worship (and the flame of her hearth).
Romans called these women the Vestal Virgins. It seems that this group
was created to fulfill the religious duties that, according to
Plutarch's life of Numa, the daughters of Roman kings had performed
under the monarchy. If the Vestal Virgins let the fire go out, they
had to rekindle it by rubbing twigs together. Then they were whipped
by the Pontifex Maximus, for their failure to attend the hearth.

For the Vestalia, the Vestals made mola salsa (holy cake). To do this
they walked to a sacred spring to fetch water. They carried the water
in special jugs with a base designed to tip the jug over if it was set
down. The water for the mola salsa could never come in contact with
the earth. The salt used to make the was also prepared in a ritual
fashion. Brine was pounded then baked in a jar until it formed a rock
so hard that the Vestals had to use an iron saw to cut it.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Wikipedia