Salvete omnes,

I am out in the field for the next 10 days or so. I have internet but
seem to be having problems with my server. For the next few days,
please send any personal messages to daxmikek@....

Valete bene,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

M. Hortensia A. Sempronio Regulo spd;
well said about Zoroastrianism. Classicists just ignore these
areas, which are essential. Is it that hard to try & get an update of
Zoroastrian research? Or ask someone.. what would the material be then
Middle Pahlavi?

Anyway I was thinking of a remark you made on the Amesha Spentas,
would then Vohu Mana, Vohuman, Good Mind be analogous to Mens Bona?

It's only recently that scholars are recognizing that so-
called 'abstract' deities such as Concordia, Mens, Spes were regarded
as divinities no different than Diana.
many thanks for this stimulating thread
M.Hortensia Maior

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus
est.

"'When you see such momentous consequences for human affairs flowing
from the worship or the neglect of the gods, do you not realise,
Quirites, how great a sin we are meditating whilst hardly yet emerging
from the shipwreck caused by our former guilt and fall? We possess a
City which was founded with the divine approval as revealed in
auguries and auspices; in it there is not a spot which is not full of
religious associations and the presence of a god; the regular
sacrifices have their appointed places no less than they have their
appointed days. Are you, Quirites, going to desert all these
gods-those whom the State honours, those whom you worship, each at
your own altars? How far does your action come up to that of the
glorious youth C. Fabius, during the siege, which was watched by the
enemy with no less admiration than by you, when he went down from the
Citadel through the missiles of the Gauls and celebrated the appointed
sacrifice of his house on the Quirinal? Whilst the sacred rites of the
patrician houses are not interrupted even in time of war, are you
content to see the State offices of religion and the gods of Rome
abandoned in a time of peace? Are the Pontiffs and Flamens to be more
neglectful of their public functions than a private individual is of
the religious obligations of his house?

'Some one may possibly reply that we can either discharge these duties
at Veii or send priests to discharge them here. But neither of these
things can be done if the rites are to be duly performed. Not to
mention all the ceremonies or all the deities individually, where
else, I would ask, but in the Capitol can the couch of Jupiter be
prepared on the day of his festal banquet? What need is there for me
to speak about the perpetual fire of Vesta, and the Image-the pledge
of our dominion- which is in the safe keeping of her temple? And you,
Mars Gradivus, and you, Father Quirinus, what need to speak of your
sacred shields? Is it your wish that all these holy things, coeval
with the City, some of even greater antiquity, should be abandoned and
left on unhallowed soil? See, too, how great the difference between us
and our ancestors. They left to us certain rites and ceremonies which
we can only duly perform on the Alban Mount or at Lavinium. If it was
a matter of religion that these rites should not be transferred from
cities which belonged to an enemy to us at Rome, shall we transfer
them from here to the enemies' city, Veii, without offending heaven?
Call to mind, I pray you, how often ceremonies are repeated, because
through negligence or accident some detail of the ancestral ritual has
been omitted. What remedy was there for the republic, when crippled by
the war with Veii after the portent of the Alban Lake, except the
revival of sacred rites and the taking of fresh auspices? And more
than that, as though after all we reverenced the ancient faiths, we
have transferred foreign deities to Rome, and have established new
ones. Queen Juno was lately carried from Veii and dedicated on the
Aventine, and how splendidly that day was celebrated through the grand
enthusiasm of our matrons! We ordered a temple to be built to Aius
Locutius because of the divine Voice which was heard in the Via Nova.
We have added to our annual festivals the Capitoline Games, and on the
authority of the senate we have founded a college of priests to
superintend them. What necessity was there for all these undertakings
if we intended to leave the City of Rome at the same time as the
Gauls, if it was not of our own free will that we remained in the
Capitol through all those months, but the fear of the enemy which shut
us up there?

'We are speaking about the temples and the sacred rites and
ceremonies. But what, pray, about the priests? Do you not realise what
a heinous sin will be committed? For the Vestals surely there is only
that one abode, from which nothing has ever removed them but the
capture of the City. The Flamen of Jupiter is forbidden by divine law
to stay a single night outside the City. Are you going to make these
functionaries priests of Veii instead of priests of Rome? Will thy
Vestals desert thee, Vesta? Is the Flamen to bring fresh guilt upon
himself and the State for every night he sojourns abroad? Think of the
other proceedings which, after the auspices have been duly taken, we
conduct almost entirely within the City boundaries-to what oblivion,
to what neglect are we consigning them! The Assembly of the Curies,
which confers the supreme command, the Assembly of the Centuries, in
which you elect the consuls and consular tribunes- where can they be
held and the auspices taken except where they are wont to be held?
Shall we transfer these to Veii, or are the people, when an Assembly
is to be held, to meet at vast inconvenience in this City after it has
been deserted by gods and men?'" - Livy, History of Rome 5.52

Today is the last day of the Lucaria, commemorating the surprise
victory of the Romans over the Gallic armies in Latium after the sack
of Rome in 390 BC.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy

Salvete,

Dear A. Sempronius Regulus and Gaius Equitius Cato,

Are you already on Mithras elist? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mithras/

Would it be OK if I reposted the below there?

This is a very interesting exchange and would be of interest to that
elist too.

Thanks.

Regards,
Nabarz

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> --- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> >
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
> > Most of the research into Mithraism comes from two
> > writers, Cumont and Ulansey.
>
> This is not quite accurate. Cumont is the one most
> known to the English-speaking world. Ulansey is not so
> much a major researcher as one offering a twofold
> proposition as an explanatory model of Mithraism: its
> Stoic origin and its origin in the discovery of
> Precession. Even though I was one of the blind
> referees of his work (and recommended publication), I
> was one of the earliest critics of his twofold
> proposal which was part of a special session of the
> American Academy of Religion Pacific Division back in
> the late 80s right after the book came out. My basic
> challenge was that Ulansey kept checking with
> classicists but not with specialists in Zoroastrianism
> and Iranian religions to see if progress had been made
> on our knowledge of Mithra and whether Mithras was
> connected. Since the Persian-cult of Mithra was very
> popular in the western parts of the Persian world,
> Armenia and Armenian literature is a significant (and
> overlooked source) of both physical and literary
> evidence of the Persian-"Zoroastrian" cult of Mithra.
> Given this evidence, there was enough to challenge his
> idea that Mithraism had Stoic origins. A minor point I
> made but I delegated to another scholar who knew much
> more about it than I was that Hipparchus could not
> have been the discoverer of Precession. He developed
> the means to calculate it but in order to do that you
> have to have observational data. That means Precession
> had to have been observed and recorded several times
> before his time in order to even recognize a pattern.
>
>
> There are some basic similiarities between
> > the two:
> >
> > Virgin birth / Twelve followers / Killing and
> > resurrection / Miracles
> > / Birthdate on December 25 / Morality / Mankind's
> > savior / Known as
> > the Light of the world
> >
> > The earliest references to Mithra come from the
> > ancient Hindu
> > literature. However, just what people believed about
> > him at that time
> > is unknown.
>
> This is also inaccurate. He is part of the
> dvanda-identity (the day "twin") of Varuna. Both are
> upholders of justice and cosmic order (in contrast to
> the devas, the Vedic asuras are creators of rta --
> cosmic order and justice whereas the devas, as
> divinities, are creatures of rta) as asuras. Both are
> the deities (tied to Dyaus-pitar or perhaps aspects of
> him) to pray to for forgiveness against violating
> moral law, both bind the wicked (god or human). Varuna
> is the evening-aspect while Mithra is the day aspect.
> The early Mithra was a restorer (had some of the
> powers of the later Visnu). While Visnu became the
> incarnating avatar in classical Hinduism, Mithra
> increasingly fulfilled that function in Zoroastrianism
> and Buddhism (where he is the future saviour Buddha).
> That there is even a residual role in this capacity in
> the Vaisnavite form of Hinduism is seen in the
> Mithra-figure of the last avatar Visnu will become. We
> know quite a bit about the Indo-European, Indo-Iranian
> Mithra. In the Avesta, Mithra is the good spirit that
> guards the world-soul (symbolized by the cosmic human,
> cow, and plant, Yima, Gus, and Hom) and a couple of
> scholars argue, convincingly, he is Spenta Mainyu
> (and/or the single defending form that the Amesha
> Spentas take as guardians of the good creation). Thus,
> in Persian, Medean, and Armenian epic, Mithra is the
> divine twim/archetype/counterpart of the messianic
> hero Vahagan (Arm: Vahagan, Avesta: Verethragan,
> Vedic:
> Vrtrahan). Here is where the Zoroastrian bull-slying
> myth comes in. There are actually _TWO_ bullslaying
> episodes in Persian mythology (Cumont and Ulansey only
> know of and refer to one episode, and thus, Ulansey
> claims there is no connection between Mithras and
> Mithra because Mithra does not slay the
> bull-as-world-soul, rather, he claims, it is Angra
> Mainyu/Ahriman. In this claim Ulansey is half right
> and draws a wrong conclusion from getting it half
> right). At the beginning of this time, Angra Mainyu
> attacks the good creation. In his attack, he mortally
> wounds the world-soul. Yima falls (becomes king of the
> ancestral dead) which is part of No Ruz "new year"
> festival, the cosmic bovine is mortally wounded, and
> the cosmic plant poisoned. Vrtra/Verethragan usurp the
> throne of Yima. He is killed by the hero Vahagn who
> institutes the forward-looking new year anticipating
> the time when the Saoshyant (Messiah) with Mithra will
> resurrect and restore the good creation. This second
> new year is Mihragan. At the end of time after Angra
> Mainyu is finally destroyed, Mithra slays the cosmic
> bovine and prepares the hom (haoma, soma, ambrotas)
> for a cosmic communion in which all beings are
> resurrected (including the cosmic bovine and plant).
> This second bull-slaying, depicted in
> Zoroastrian-Armenian grottos and caves (some under the
> older Armenian churches that have a dhar-i mihr in a
> rock wall, there are also dhar-i mihr figures carved
> in the side of cliffs all over Armenia) is the one
> unknown either to Cumont or Ulansey. Here Mithra is
> the divine "twin" and eschatological counterpart of
> the Zoroastrian messiah or Saoshyant.
>
> >
> > Mithraism is an example of a "mystery religion" that
> > flourished in the
> > near east at that time. David Ulansey explains it is
> > called such
> > because
> >
> > " ..like the other ancient 'mystery religions,' such
> > as the Eleusinian
> > mysteries and the mysteries of Isis, the Mithraic
> > cult maintained
> > strict secrecy about its teachings and practices,
> > revealing them only
> > to initiates. As a result, reconstructing the
> > beliefs of the Mithraic
> > devotees has posed an enormously intriguing
> > challenge to scholarly
> > ingenuity..." - Ulansey, David "The Cosmic Mysteries
> > of Mithras",
> > revised 1991
>
> And as Marvin Meyers criticized Ulansey at that same
> AAR special session back in the 80s, the Mystery
> religions were mysterion not primarily because they
> were secret but a participatory dramaturgy that were
> supposed to have transformative effect. Mystery in the
> sense of secret is a secondary meaning because the
> events were also not for outsiders. Thus, the Orthodox
> Divine Mysteries are sacramental, and after the Creed,
> were in ancient times closed to even the catechumens
> (see also the Theological Dictionary of the New
> Testament, Kittel, et al.)
>
> > In fact, Mithraism seems to change drastically from
> > its Persian roots
> > when it becomes a Roman cult. Romans adapted the
> > military cult into
> > something much more comfortable and understandable
> > for their form of
> > worship. Scholars Beard, North and Price agree
> > stating,
> >
> > "The form of the cult most familiar to us, the
> > initiatory cult, does
> > not seem to derive from Persia at all. It is found
> > first in the west,
> > has no significant resemblance to its supposed
> > Persian 'origins', and
> > seems largely to be a western construct." - Beard,
> > Mary, John North
> > and Simon Price, Religions of Rome Volume I,
> > Cambridge University
> > Press. New York NY. 1998 p.279
>
> Ah yes, the great divide in academia between the
> classics specialists and the Persian specialists.
> The well-rehearsed standard line between areas of
> expertise. Classicists usually repeat something
> along the lines that the Persian origins of Mithras
> are obscure and that little is known about the cult of
> Mithra. What they really mean is it is obscure and
> little known to _them_ because it is outside their
> area of expertise. It not unlike the Buddhist scholars
> not in much of a dialogue with the gnostic scholars
> over the finds of the Turfan oasis (a Manichaean and
> Buddhist site with a find of texts larger than Nag
> Hammadi). The cult of the Persian Mithra was strongly
> connected to the warrior-caste jsut as the Vedic
> Mitra/Visnu is closely tied to the kshatriyas.
>
>
> > "Allegations of an early Christian dependence on
> > Mithraism have been
> > rejected on many grounds. Mithraism had no concept
> > of the death and
> > resurrection of its god and no place for any concept
> > of rebirth - at
> > least during its early stages.... During the early
> > stages of the cult,
> > the notion of rebirth would have been foreign to its
> > basic outlook....
> > Moreover, Mithraism was basically a military cult.
> > Therefore, one must
> > be skeptical about suggestions that it appealed to
> > nonmilitary people
> > like the early Christians." - Nash, Ronald, "Mystery
> > Religions of the
> > Near East"
>
> While I'm not much up on the latest theories of
> Christianity's relation to the Mystery Religions after
> Bultmann, Reitzenstein, and Angus, Nash is hardly an
> authority to cite. He is not a historian of religion
> but a conservative Reform philosopher of religion
> (part of the Wolterstorff and Plantinga "Reformed
> Epistemology" movement coming out of the 18th century
> Scottish Reformed "common sense" philosopher Reid)
> formerly at a Kentucky seminary (emeritus?). I've
> corresponded with him on some issues in history of
> Christian theology and he admits history is not his
> strong suit. Basically, his historical stuff he
> re-packages for students in the Reformed Christian
> tradition.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> America Austrorientalis
>
>
> Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus
>
> ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>

Salve,

From an Indo-European study, we can also use myth,
ritual, and linguistics to find that deities that have
been made separate are aspects of each other in older
strata in a way than rounds out some of their odd
quirks into an explanatory whole. So, since we're
celebrating Neptunalia, here is one. Research
indicates that Neptunus and the Irish Nechtan are
aspects of the same older god connected to a story
also found in Zoroastrianism and Vedic religion where
the world has been attacked and the two orders of gods
(asuras and devas) re-order it into a defensive order.
A reference in the Zoroastrian astronomical text
indicates this re-ordering is the origin of Precession
connected with the fall of Yima/Yama/Tuisto, the
bitter winter when he fad to construct a
shelter/place/vara in the northpole to protect things
from the ensuing war and winter which was also the
realm of the ancestral dead over whom he was king
under the celestial north mountain Mt Hara. Those
ancestors that become deified don't head to Yimas
realm under the mount/hill but travel the Milky Way to
the pole star where they exit to the realm of the
gods. This motif is eluded to without explicit mention
or forgotten but still reflected in the parallels
between the Vedic domestic cult of the ancestors, the
Baltic, German, and Roman. The warrior function of
gods (SKT: the soldier warrior Indra/Germanic Thor and
the magical shape-shifter shamanic warrior and leader
of the berserker wild-hunt/Maruts/Rudras Vedic
Vayu-Vata-Rudra/Zoroastrian Vayu/Vay and the Germanic
Woden/Odin) prepare for the cataclysmic battle by
having the warrior-magician-shaman god Vayu-Odin visit
the well of ApamNapat/Nectan/Mimir/Neptunus to learn
the wisdom of the world-tree as the connecting link
between worlds, times, and destinies (also referred to
as the world mill that takes all in as grist and
produces the "karma/wyrd" of all that is to come in
defining world-ages. The god of depths, and of "watery
depths" is not referring literally to the physical
oceans but to the depths of the world's foundations
(that also are not the underworld/afterlife of the
realm of Dis Pater). Another Celtic connection: the
scholar Henri Corbin first noted the
pagan/VEdic/Zoroastrian origins of the Graal legends
and the Arthurian legends to this bigger motif tied to
the events leading to the fall of Yima, the creation
of Yima's round of character/knightly types (modified
into the Buddhist Wheel of Samsaric Life called Yama's
Wheel) and the symbolism of the double
thunderbolt/Vajra found across IE lands from the
Baltic and India to the Roman shield.



--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> M. Hortensia A. Sempronio Regulo spd;
> well said about Zoroastrianism. Classicists just
> ignore these
> areas, which are essential. Is it that hard to try &
> get an update of
> Zoroastrian research? Or ask someone.. what would
> the material be then
> Middle Pahlavi?
>
> Anyway I was thinking of a remark you made on the
> Amesha Spentas,
> would then Vohu Mana, Vohuman, Good Mind be
> analogous to Mens Bona?
>
> It's only recently that scholars are recognizing
> that so-
> called 'abstract' deities such as Concordia, Mens,
> Spes were regarded
> as divinities no different than Diana.
> many thanks for this stimulating thread
> M.Hortensia Maior
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)






____________________________________________________________________________________
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that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

Dear Legata, Annia Minucia Marcella,

I wish you the best favours of Fortuna for your important mission.
I'm glad that in Nova Roma, women get the power too.
Can I ask you if Divus Claudius Temple in Nova Britannia is re-built?
Thank you so much.

Publius Claudius/Agrippinensis Fides



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella"
<annia@...> wrote:

>
> "I, Annia Minucia Marcella(Anna Michelle Bucci) do hereby solemnly

swear to

> uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best

interests of

> the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
>
> As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Annia Minucia Marcella(Anna

Michelle Bucci)

> swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public

dealings, and to

> pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
>
> I, Annia Minucia Marcella(Anna Michelle Bucci) swear to uphold and

defend

> the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear

never to act

> in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
>
> I, Annia Minucia Marcella(Anna Michelle Bucci) swear to protect and

defend

> the Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
> I, Annia Minucia Marcella(Anna Michelle Bucci) further swear to

fulfill the

> obligations and responsibilities of the office of Legatus Pro

Praetore of

> Nova Britannia to the best of my abilities.
>
> On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the

Gods and

> Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I

accept the

> position of Legatus Pro Praetore of Nova Britannia and all the

rights,

> privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto."
>

Salvete omnes

I welcome back two former contestants, C. Aurelia Falco Silvana and
Cn Equitius Marinus. I am glad to have their renewed company as we
walk this trail together.

I am delighted to welcome a very new citizen, M. Martianius Lupus,
and hope that he enjoys this first encounter with Nova Roma
activities.

It seems the city is again quiet, as I miss some skilled challengers
from the past. Nonetheless I am pleased with the quality of the
answers.

Here are the answers for the first 10 questions:-

1. All roads lead to Rome. Who set what up in Rome to mark the
place where all roads were considered to start, and what information
was listed on it?

The Milliarium Aureum (or Golden Milestone) was a gilded bronze
monument erected by the Emperor Augustus Caesar near the temple of
Saturn in the central Forum of Ancient Rome. On it were listed all
the major cities in the empire and the distances to them.

2. Which dictator and his right-hand man, in 44BC, set up the first
master itinerary of all roads. Where in Rome was this itinerarium
placed so that travellers could make copies of it?

G. Iulius Caesar and M. Antonius set up the first master itinerary of
roads, near the Pantheon. Three Greek geographers did the mapping.

3. In what vehicle were the Vestal Virgins transported to
ceremonies?

I have accepted more than one correct answer here, depending on the
era. At an early stage, with only a small number of Vestals to
convey, they were conveyed in a carpentum, a light, small two-
wheeled, covered carriage with side decoration in which Roman matrons
were transported in public festival processions. It was drawn by two
mules with pole gear.
A later development was the pilentrum, designed as a sacred vehicle,
this canopied two or four-wheeled vehicle was used for ceremonial
occasions or as a passenger vehicle for Roman aristocrats. Passengers
were accommodated on large, soft cushions.
As befitted their status, Vestals were preceded by a lictor.
The model makers have done a lot of research in this area, and found
evidence that the pilentrum was used by the Vestal Virgins and by the
older ladies in festival processions.


4. What other rights and privileges, not possessed by most roman
women, did the vestals have?

They were allowed to own and handle their own property, and make
wills and legal contracts;
They had the right-of-way when travelling in public; even consuls,
praetors and tribunes made way for them.
At public games and performances they had a reserved place of honour;
They were not subject to the patria potestas, the (originally
extensive) powers of the head of the household.
They were able to give evidence without the customary oath;
Being deemed to have an incorruptible character, they were entrusted
with important wills and state documents, like public treaties;
Their person was sacrosanct: death was the penalty for injuring their
person;
They could free condemned prisoners and slaves by touching them -
anyone who was sentenced to death meeting a vestal virgin on his way
to the execution was automatically pardoned;
On May 15 they and they alone, were allowed to throw ritual straw
figurines, called Argei, into the Tiber

5. Before I plan my journey, I need to think how much I can afford
to spend on accommodation. So I need to count my pecunia. What
commodity, used for bartering before money existed, did this word
originate from?

Pecunia derives from pecus, meaning livestock / herd animals /
beasts/ cattle / sheep.

6. As a non-official traveller, what choices of accommodation
(basic and more genteel) would be available to me?

The basic option would be inns ('cauponae'). Dea roma! If these were
rough, the women were rougher!
More genteel would be hostels ('tabernae') or the homes of private
citizens along the way, who might let an available room. It might be
possible to find a place at `mutationes' (way-stations) - these were
designed to offer a fresh change of horses or other draft animals.
Finally it is possible that `deversoria' (lodgings; resorts) might be
available on the route.

7. I am travelling as far as Gaul, which I know is divided into
three parts. Which peoples live in those three parts?

I shall let Iulius Caesar answer this one: Gallia est omnis divisa in
partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui
ipsorum lingua Celtae nostra Galli appellantur. The whole of Gaul is
divided into three parts, of which the Belgae (Belgians) inhabit one,
the Acquitanians another, and the third by those who in their own
language call themselves Celts and in ours are called Gauls.

8. Which chieftain led the Gauls in their ultimately unsuccessful
war against Caesar?

The Gallic leader was Vercingetorix

9. At which battle was this chief eventually defeated, and what did
Caesar build to secure the victory?

The final decisive battle was the siege of Alesia, where in a massive
construction Caesar built a double wall ('circumvallation') right
around the fortified city, the inner one to keep the besieged Gauls
in, and the outer one to keep relieving forces out. I cannot resist
passing on this description from Silvana which does full justice to
the sheer scale of the works. I offer this up to the greater glory of
Rome.
A circumvallation completely surrounded the hill fort of
Vercingetorix with 11 miles of walls surmounted by 23 towers.
A 20 foot wide trench (canal / moat) dug between two creeks which
flowed either side of the fortified hill where Vercingetorix camped.
This trench spanned the open land in front of the hill fort, and
served as a barrier (also perhaps ensuring a ready water supply for
Caesar's troops)
Then a dug-in main defensive systems 400 paces back, consisting of a
12-foot high rampart with towers at 80 foot intervals;
A double ditch with the innermost flooded where possible; sharpened
stakes in concealed locations or pits; caltrops and spikes half-
buried.
A complete contra-vallation, 14 miles long, facing outward to defend
against an anticipated Gallic relief force.
In fact, shock and awe Rome style.

10. Roughly what was the total road mileage of the Roman Empire at
its greatest extent?

At least 52,800 miles of main road section are known, though much
remains to be confirmed and added to the count. Plus minor byways and
streets within towns. Even around 53,000 miles is impressive, but it
will be interesting to see how the number increases as more work is
done. Is this an area we could encourage?

And the scores at the first stage are:

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana 10 points
Cn Equitius Marinus 9 points
M. Martianius Lupus 8.75 points

The next set of 10 questions will be posted at approx 6pm Rome time
tomorrow.

Valete optime

C Marcius Crispus

Marcus Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD

REPORT OF SENATE SESSION



The Senate was called to order on July 3rd , 2007. with the following message of the Consul Galerius Paulinus:

Salvete Conscript Fathers
I herby convene the Senate on a.d. V Non. Quint. At 0001 Roman time (July 3,
2760
A.U.C) when the contio will commence until 23:59 (Roman time) on a.d. VII
Id. Quint.(July 9th , 2760 A.U.C.) when it will end. Voting will then
commence at 0001 (Roman time on a.d. VI Id. Quint (July 10 and will end at
0001 (Roman Time) a.d. IV Id. Quint.( July 12th, 2760 A.U.C.) (23:59 is
11:59PM CEST and 0001 is 12:01AM CEST)
Due to the national holiday in the USA the contio is extended from
ninety-six (96) hours to one hundred and twenty (120 ) hours. The voting
period is forty-eight hours (48) and one minute long.

Once debate has concluded Senators will send their votes to the Senate
list where the results will be tabulated and the Tribunes will report
the results to the people of Nova Roma in accordance with our laws and
customs.

The Agenda is as follows:
Senate Agenda July 3, 2760

Item One
Appointment of Marcus Flavius Aurelius as governor of Australia

Item Two
Appointment of Gaia Iulia Felix as governor Asia Occidentalis

Item Three
Appointment of M. Lucretius Agricola as governor of Asia Orientalis

Item four
Appointment of Julilla Sempronia Magna as governor of America
Boreoccidentalis

Item five
Withdrawn

Item six
Appointment of Marcus Martianius Gangalius as governor of California

Item seven
Appointment of M. Calidius Gracchus as governor of Hibernia

Item eight
Appointment of Annia Minucia Marcella as governor of Nova Britannia

Item nine
Adding Luxembourg to a Gallia
In accordance with the constitutional authority granted the Senate to set
the geographic boundaries of provinces, the macro-national Principality of
Luxembourg is added to the province of Gallia

Earlier this year I created a scholarship committee under the leadership of
the honorable A. Tullia Scholastica and consisting of
M. Lucretius Agricola
D. Suetonius Lupus
Gallus Cassius Augurius
M. Lucretius Agricola
Sextus Pontius Pilatus Barbatus

Item ten
In accordance with the recommendation of the Scholarship committee, the
Senate of Nova Roma awards a one thousand dollar (USD) scholarship for the
year 2760 to Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus.
Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus is a graduate student of classical philology and
the Italian language and literature in the Eötvös Lóránd University
(ELTE) in Hungary, Budapest.

Item eleven
"Senate Consultum on the Standardization of Titles for Provincial
Magistrates"

Standardization of Titles for Provincial Magistrates

In keeping with the authority granted to the Senate by Article III,
Paragraph 3, of the Constitution the following titles will be used in Nova
Roma.

Currently-serving Consuls governing provinces shall be titled Consul.

Former Consuls who are continuing to govern a province after their term as
Consul ends shall be titled Proconsul.

Currently-serving Praetors governing a province shall be titled Praetor.

Praetors who continue to govern a province after their first term of office
ends shall be titled Propraetor.

The "governor" of Italy shall be called Praefectus Italiae. If a sitting
Consul or Praetor resides in Italy and they serve as "governor" on behalf of
the
Senate of Nova Roma they shall be called Consul or Praetor

All other citizens appointed by the Senate to govern a province of Nova Roma
shall be called Legatus Pro Praetore

Discussion question
Should we adopt the Aquila Heliaca project (Roman Imperial Eagle) as an
official project of Nova Roma?
Valete
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



On July 12nd 2007 the latest session of the Senate of Nova Roma was declared closed by the Consul Galerius Paulinus.



Here is the list of the voting Senators, listed by date and and reception time of their votes in the list of the Senate:



GEM: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

QSP: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

FVG: Flavius Vedius Germanicus

MMA: Marcus Minicius Audens

TGP: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

GFBM: Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

CFBQ> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus (proxy GFBM)

PC> Patricia Cassia

GSA> Gnaeus Salvius Astur

AMA> A. Moravia Aurelia

MBA> Marcusd Bianchius Antonius

LECA> L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

CCS> c Curius Saturninus

GPL> G Popillius Laenas

ECF> Emilia Curia Finnica

TOPA> Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus

CMM> C Marius Merullinus

ATS> A Tullia Scholastica

QFM> Q Fabius Maximus

MMPH> M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

CFD> C Flavius Diocletianus

FAC> F Apulus Caesar

PMS> P Minucia Strabo

MIP> M Iulius Perusianus



RESULTS OF THE VOTATION:



Item I : 19 Uti Rogas 4 Abstineo: the item is passed

Item II: 19 Uti Rogas 4 Abstineo: the item is passed

Item III: 22 Uti Rogas 1 Abstineo: the item is passed

Item IV: 22 Uti Rogas 1 Abstineo: the item is passed

Item V: Withdrawn

Item VI: 5 Uti Rogas 18 Antiquo: the item is not passed

Item VII: 6 Uti Rogas 10 Abstineo 7 Antiquo: the item is not passed

Item VIII: 19 Rogas 4 Abstineo: the item is passed

Item VIIII: 11 Uti Rogas 4 Abstineo 8 Antiquo: the item is passed

Item X: 10 Uti Rogas 14 Antiquo: the Item is not passed

Item XI: 18 Uti Rogas 2 Abstineo 3 Antiquo: the item is passed





Discessiones



Item One

GEM> VTI ROGAS. With my thanks to Aurelius for his willingness to serve.

QSP> VTI ROGAS. thank you for wanting to serve

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--YES-- My thanks for his willingness to serve.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS: He has been a scriba to the former Governor, a
citizen since 2001 (but did disappear for awhile), and as long as his
taxes are paid I think he should be given the opportunity.
[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: He has done some work before and i wish him well.

PC>UTI ROGAS

GSA>I vote in favour.

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> VTI ROGAS

LECA> Vti Rogas

CCS> Uti rogas.

GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF>Uti rogas.

TOPA: Uti rogas.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to appoint Marcus Flavius Aurelius as governor of Australia

ATS> Abstineo. I don't know enough about this candidate, or some others, but see that he (along another candidate) is enrolled in centuria LI, which troubles me.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
Some years ago provincia Australia had a vibrant community
developing, if one that was somewhat isolated from the rest of Nova
Roma. Since 2001 our Australian Citizens appear to have become
isolated from one another as well. I thank M Flavius for stepping
forward and wish him the best of fortune in his efforts to revive
provincia Australia.

CFD: Uti Rogas
FAC> VTI ROGAS
PMS> ABSTAIN

MIP> ABSTINEO


Item Two

GEM>VTI ROGAS. With my thanks to Gaia Iulia.

QSP>VTI ROGAS. All the best and thank you

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--YES-- My thanks for his willingness to serve

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS: She has been a citizen since 2005, has not served
in any roles that I am aware, but the province is small (as far as
number of citizens) so giving her an opportunity seems reasonable.

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: She seem rather active. I will give her a chance.

PC>UTI ROGAS

GSA>I vote in favour.

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> VTI ROGAS

LECA> Vti Rogas

CCS> Uti rogas.

GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF>Uti rogas.

TOPA: Uti rogas.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to appoint Gaia Iulia Felix as governor Asia Occidentalis

ATS> Abstineo, for much the same reason.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
I find this region of the former Empire to be most interesting. I am
therefore delighted to see that we shall now have a governess to
develop the provincia and promote the region's rich heritage to the
rest of Nova Roma
CFD: Uti Rogas
FAC> ABSTINEO, sorry I don't know her.

PMS> UTI ROGAS

MIP> ABSTINEO







Item Three

GEM>VTI ROGAS. One of our most outstanding citizens. Asia Orientalis is indeed fortunate to have him.

QSP>VTI ROGAS. I agree that Asia Orientalis is indeed fortunate to have him.

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--YES-- His past
willingness to help me
personnally, and his
subsequent service to NR
make him a valuable asset
to the Governors group.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS: Agricola is a dedicated citizen who has done much
to improve Nova Roma, I fully support him as a Governor.

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: He is well known and a hard working citizen. I have
high hopes for him, but the Provincia is huge and the task big.

PC>UTI ROGAS

GSA>I vote in favour.

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> VTI ROGAS

LECA> Vti Rogas

CCS> Uti rogas.

GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF>Uti rogas.

TOPA: Uti rogas.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to appoint M. Lucretius Agricola as governor of Asia Orientalis

ATS> Vti rogas. Agricola is an excellent choice.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
While I was head of the Office of the Census 2005 it was my good
fortune to be able to call upon M. Lucretius Agricola to fill in as
an acting proconsul for the region. His task was unlike any other's
covering as he did such a large area composed of so many different
countries. As in every other task he has taken on since, he did
outstanding work for Nova Roma. I am certain that he shall remain a
valuable asset for the Respublica Libera.

CFD: Uti Rogas

FAC> VTI ROGAS, I met him in Rome, he's a very skilled gentleman.
PMS> UTI ROGAS

MIP> VTI ROGAS, a very nice and educated person




Item four

GEM> VTI ROGAS. It is a pleasure to see her continuing her long service.

QSP>VTI ROGAS. Thank you Jullia Sempronia!

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--YES-- My thanks for his willingness to serve

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS: Sempronia Magna is an asset to Nova Roma. I am
pleased she is willing to serve.

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: One of the best!

PC>UTI ROGAS. Based on my past interactions with her, she will be an
energetic and intelligent presence on behalf of Nova Roma.

GSA>I vote in favour.

AMA - VTI ROGAS. With sincere thanks. Her province is very fortunate to have her.
MBA> VTI ROGAS

LECA> Vti Rogas

CCS> Uti rogas.

GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF>Uti rogas.

TOPA: Uti rogas.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to appoint Julilla Sempronia Magna as governor of America Boreoccidentalis

ATS> Vti rogas. Julilla Sempronia Magna is also an excellent choice to resume her post as governor.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
Senatrix Sempronia, cara Amica mea Julilla, rather unknowingly our
paths have crossed a few times on the internet before I returned to
Nova Roma in 2005, but unfortunately not during my last visit to
Boreoccidentalis. She nurtures the community of her provincia, much
to the benefit of Nova Roma. I am pleased to vote in favor of her
being prorogued into office.
CFD: Uti Rogas
FAC> VTI ROGAS, I have no words to explain my admiration for Julilla, her
job in NR is ever excellent.

PMS> UTI ROGAS

MIP> VTI ROGAS

Item six

GEM> ANTIQUO. Recent information that has come to light concerning posts in the
California provincial mailing list requires me to reassess my earlier vote in
favor of Gangalius. Better no governor for California than one who openly
disrespects this Senate.

QSP>UTI ROGAS I am more interested in what he can accomplish in
Califronia now as
opposed to waitng on attitude adjustments... could be a long time
waiting on
another governor.

FVG>No.

MMA>--NO-- A new Governor for
any province should not
have to have his /
her "attitude changed"
after appointment. I
consider that to be too
little, too late. Better
no govenor at all than one
who has little respect for
NR, her laws, and the
Senate.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] ANTIQUO: Gangalius doesn't seem to have a very good opinion of
the senate and his posts recently to non-Nova Romans is disturbing.
As a matter of fact when one of us (i.e., a NR senator) tried to join
the new California list he was told to "stay away from California."

[CFBQ] ANTIQUO: A lot of things has shown up lately that once again
make me question his loyalty. I would have liked to vote for him.

PC>ANTIQUO. California is too important a province to have a governor who
does not have the Senate's full trust.

GSA>I vote against this proposal.

AMA - ANTIQUO. His recent disrespectful tone with members of this body leave me with doubt about his candidacy.
MBA> ANTIQUO

LECA> Vti Rogas.I'm not concerned with his "loyalty" to the Senate but rather what he will do for California. I haven't seen much talk about the loyalty of some current members of the Curia to Nova Roma who have resigned, formed competing organizations, etc. The hypocrisy of some people is astounding. The idea that California is better off without anyone than someone who isn't 'respectful towards the Senate" says much about senatores priorities, sadly.

CCS> Antiquo. California needs a fresh start, but this person is not right for the job.



GPL> VTI ROGAS.California needs a Governor. It will only be 5 or 6
months until Governors are asked to present themselves again to the
Senate. Not too much risk for us, I think.

ECF>Antiquo. We should find a candidate more fit for the post.

TOPA: Antiquo. I believe I have previously expressed my doubts as to
this person's dedication to Nova Roma.

CMM Nego I vote not to appoint Marcus Martianius Gangalius as governor of California

ATS>Antiquo. I share the reservations expressed by others concerning this candidate, and have some more of my own.

QFM: Vti Rogas, Per usual you miss the point. You have fixated on something that not just he but many Nova Romans disagreed with and forced the most upset to leave. Nova Roma is big on second chances. It must be. Why else are there members sitting in this house this very vote who were not loyal to NR, those who have resigned, formed competing organizations, ran away when things got tough, cursed Nova Roma for ignoring them. Yet, they sit here today and pass judgment when they themselves were in the same situation recently. It is as Lucius Equitius says that the hypocrisy of some people here is astounding

Marcus Martianius Gangalius was a Legatus of CAL Superior, so he is experienced, and has a strong following among Californians in the North. Because he isn't "respectful towards the Senate" says much about his political acumen. Surely after the Spanish fiasco it behooves us to demonstrate that we have situations under control.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> ANTIQUO
Previously California had been a large, diverse, and wealthy
provincia. While the Census 2005 showed that problems existed in
almost all of Nova Roma's provinciae, in the Americas provincia
California was one of three that stood out for special concern. I
accept the former Proconsul's explanations on the decline of
California as far as those explanations go, but he did not tell the
whole story. Citizens and former Citizens indicated in their
replies to the Office of the Census that the former Proconsul was
himself a cause of problems faced in provincia California. The next
governor will have a difficult task of working with the former
Proconsul, of retaining what he had built, of also building once more
a more diverse base for the provincia, and to some extent he or she
will have to make an appeal to those whom the former Proconsul
offended and drove from Nova Roma. Not in his attitude, his
temperament, his words, or his actions does M. Martianius present
himself as a person capable of bridging the diverse groups with which
he will have to work in order to reform the provincia. I prefer that
we look for another candidate to hold such an important position.
CFD: Uti Rogas
FAC> ANTIQVO

PMS> ANTIQUO

MIP> ANTIQUO




Item seven

GEM> ABSTIENO. Gracchus has a problem with inconsistency. While I appreciate his
willingness to serve, I can not support his candidacy.

QSP>UTI ROGAS - This new position should give Calidius a good jump
start and a new
incentive to help build NR and Hibernia.

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--NO-- His willingnes to
leave is not a good
reommendation. I would
like to see him work in NR
in a lesser position to
convince me that he is
worthy of the Governor's
position. We have had far
too many people who as
Governors have
disappeared, resigned, or
simply quit to be loose in
our decisions of who to
select. No Governor is
far better than someone
appointed who is not doing
the job.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] ANTIQUO: His run as an Aedile wasn't too good. He needs an
opportunity to "redeem" himself, but I'm not convinced this is the
right opportunity.

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: M. Calidius Gracchus has left his post once before,
but we need a Propraetor in Hibernia, so I would give him a chance.

PC>ABSTINEO. I do not feel I have sufficient knowledge of this situation.

GSA>I abstain.

AMA - ABSTINEO

MBA> VTI ROGAS I would like to give him a chance.

LECA> Vti Rogas.

CCS> Antiquo. I'm afraid I would like to see him to finish his aedileship first or some similar task to show that he is a serious candidate for post with imperium.

GPL> ABSTIENO

ECF>Antiquo.

TOPA: Antiquo. I don't know him myself, but I heed the warnings of some
of my fellow senators.

CMM Nego I vote not to appoint M. Calidius Gracchus as governor of Hibernia

ATS> Abstineo. Here again, I am not familiar with the candidate, and am concerned about some things mentioned by others. He, too, is listed in centuria LI.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
I am not familiar with M. Calidus and thus I might have deferred to
the judgment of more senior Senatores to vote against his
appointment. However our last census showed that there are really
very few Citizens in Hiberia from which to appoint any provincial
magistrates. In fact there are regions of Latin America that have
more numerous Citizens yet whose organization into provinciae remains
neglected from a lack of willing candidates to take on the
obligation. Having formerly been the Proconsul for Hiberia, M.
Calidus should be aware of the obligations he will now undertake. I
wish him all the luck that the Gods may provide.

CFD: Uti Rogas
FAC> ABSTINEO, sorry, I don't know him
PMS> ABSTAIN

MIP> ABSTINEO


Item eight


GEM> VTI ROGAS

QSP> VTI ROGAS - thank you for your service Annia Minucia

FVG>Abstain.

MMA>--YES-- My thanks for
your work in the Provincia
and your willingness to
serve.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS: She has the endorsement of Senator Audens, and that
is good enough for me!

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: I have a good impression of her, she will probably
do her best.
PC>UTI ROGAS and welcome!

GSA>I vote in favour

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> VTI ROGAS
LECA> Vti Rogas.

CCS>Uti rogas.

GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF> Uti rogas

TOPA: Uti rogas.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to appoint Annia Minucia Marcella as governor of Nova Britannia

ATS> Abstineo. I have some reservations here as well, though I am better acquainted with the candidate.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
I cannot think of any better recommendation than that offered to the
Senate on behalf of Annia Minucia Marcella by our distinguished
Senator Audens.

CFD: Uti Rogas

FAC> ABSTINEO, sorry, I don't know her

PMS> UTI ROGAS

MIP> ABSTINEO





Item nine


GEM> VTI ROGAS

QSP>VTI ROGAS

FVG>Yes.

MMA>--YES--

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS.

[CFBQ] ANTIQUO: This item should have been better prepared and I see
no hurry in deciding this. I think the Propraetores of Gallia and
Germany should be consulted. They may in turn consult the citizens in
Gallia and Germania in what ever way deem to be the best.

PC>UTI ROGAS

GSA>I abstain.

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> ABSTIENO

LECA> Antiquo

CCS>Antiquo. There are other small states in Europe without designated province, as came up during the discussion. This item was ill-prepared and contacting citizens of those areas and propraetores of the concerned provinces would be the best way to start proper procedure for an item like this.
GPL> VTI ROGAS.

ECF> Antiquo

TOPA: Antiquo. I would like to hear recommendations of citizens living
in Luxembourg before supporting it to join either provincia.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to add the macro-national Principality of Luxembourg to provincia Gallia

ATS> Abstineo. I would like more input from the authorities in the concerned provinces on this.

QFM: Vti Rogas. The natural dispositions of prospective citizens are towards Gaul. We should honor that.

MMPH> ANTIQUO
Why do we debate whether to assign Luxembourg to provincia Gallia or
to provincia Germannia when there are no Citizens currently living in
this area? The question is rather irrelevant. And yet the Senate
is not presented with any plan to organize Uruguay into a new
provincia when Montevideo alone has more Citizens than all of
Hiberia. Then there is Peru, and Nigeria is another possible area to
form into a new provincia, but such areas are overlooked. Nor was
the Senate asked to discuss the appeal of Citizens in the Caribbean
to organize their region into a provincia. What Item IX points out
is how Nova Roma needs to reconsider what constitutes a provincia.
It has carved out vast regions into unmanageable provinciae where
instead we need to take a more local approach, organizing provinciae
around oppida wherever our Citizens are located so that out
provinciae rest firmly on a foundation of local communities.

CFD: Uti Rogas

FAC> ANTIQVO, the idea is good but it would be presented in a better way
indicating the final Provincia which would include Luxembourg.

PMS> ABSTAIN

MIP> ANTIQVO, I'd like to see a total distribution of the European "minor"
states all together. What about St.Marino, the Vatican, Monaco or
Liechstein?





Item ten


GEM> ANTIQUO. This has nothing to do with Lentulus, who is an outstanding young
man. I am voting against the process, or lack thereof, which was followed.
In Scholastica's report to this Senate she made it clear that Consul Paulinus
placed a number of restrictions on the consular committee. Furthermore, I
would like to see this Senate establish a process for investing the money in
the Scholarship Fund into an endowment, the interest from which can fund
periodic scholarships. Giving over half of the scholarship fund to one
person, no matter how highly regarded, is fiscally unsound.

QSP>UTI ROGAS - Cornelius Lentulus is one hell of a good investment for
NR from
what I can see. Perhaps 1000.00 does go farther in his homeland than
in North
America. We need more people with his background and qualifications
to help
build Nova Roma's credbility and his educational aspirations should
go us
proud.

FVG>No. There has been entirely insufficient oversight over this process.

MMA>--NO-- I do not care for
the procedure of the
Scholarship giveaway, or
the amount given. I would
like to see an investment
of funds in order that we
may establish a supporting
fund for this idea. This
vote has nothing
whatsoever to do with the
person selected as he
appears to me to be a
worthy candidate. The
concern is how it was
done, not to whom the
scholarship was intended.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

Because we need more than one real world project.

Because the recipient will be a leader in his field.

Because we need to do things and not just talk about doing things.

Because we have the money.

Because we said we would award scholarships someday in the future.

Because the future is now.

Because it is the right thing to do.

[GFBM] ANTIQUO: I do not believe Consul Paulinus handled this very
well, and I cannot in good conscious support a Scholarship that was
created without any solid application process. Simply to give money
to Lentulus so he can get Internet access doesn't seem like a
responsible usage of our funds. No slight against Lentulus, he is not
the architect of this committee or process used by said committee.
The Scholarship Fund is a priority of Nova Roma, but handing out funds
without looking into the long term viability of the Fund itself will
make it impossible to disburse funds in the future. As has been
suggested by others a scholarship endowment would be a better
solution.

[CFBQ] ANTIQUO: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus is probably well deserved
of a scholarship, but this item is also ill prepared in many respects
as many Senatores have pointed out. I want to see this item on the
agenda at a later Senate meeting, but it must be prepared correcting
the criticism within the Senate.^

PC>UTI ROGAS, for all the reasons Paulinus cited.

GSA>I vote against this item. This is not a vote against Cn. Cornelius
Lentulus, but a vote against the way in which this "scholarship" has
been presented. I am in favour of dedicating NR money to worthwhile
projects, but the process must be more serious, and the project must
profit the citizenry at large - or, at last, Romanity at large.

AMA - ANTIQUO. I do not doubt that Lentulus is a deserving recipient. However, I strongly disagree with the method by which this item came to the Senate. With more transparency and planning, I am sure that this will succeed in the future.

MBA> VTI ROGAS I do not like the process but I do not feel I should punish Lentulus for that.

LECA> Vti Rogas.

CCS>Antiquo. There has been no budgeting, the amount of money was outrageously large and beyond the means of NR and the fund, it's very bad practise to give money to our own citizens, there is much more to gain by using the money into concordance with e.g. MM Project, the process was not transparent. This item was extremely ill-prepared from many points of view.

GPL>ANTIQUO. This is a good idea, however, we should avoid large
expenditures until we are certain of our financial picture and the
Senate has an opportunity to approve a proper budget allocating our
resources.

ECF>Antiquo.Giving money to our own citizens does not represent responsible use of the Nova Roman scholarship fund.

TOPA: Antiquo. We should draw up proper guidelines for the fund,
including a budget and application procedures. We should be using the
interest from the fund, not digging deeply into the fund itself, and the
scholarships should be awarded towards a thesis or project aimed towards
the same goals as Nova Roma.

No offense to Lentulus, who is a hard-working citizen as well as a
dedicated latinist, but a magistrate choosing a "deserving" recipient
from amongst our own citizens isn't a professional way to handle this.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to disburse the funds to award to Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus

ATS> Vti rogas. Lentulus is a highly qualified candidate and the process is the best we could do with limited personnel resources. We could also not go outside of NR this year for that and other reasons. This award is intended to help him with his studies; if net access helps him, then good, but that is not its primary purpose. Conceivably tuition and other considerations come first.

QFM: Vti Rogas Vedius and Cassius always intended that NR was to have a scholarship fund.

The Senate made a decision to allot some of Nova Roma's total funds to used
on a Scholarship Fund. Last year Consul elect Galerius started the process

to make this a reality. He established the precedent of setting up a

committee for the awarding this year's scholarship, and he made sure that the Senate

would review the committee decision before the money was given.

The committee spokesperson, Praetor Scholastica, went out of her
way to explain to the Conscript Fathers the criteria the selection committee

used and how they came to their decision. The process seemed more then fair.

The fact there was only one qualified selection is hardly their fault.
Therefore, unless the Conscript Fathers feel that Cornelius is unsuitable

to be Nova Roma's first recipient of a scholarship after ten years

vote Antiquo. But recall, this money has already been budgeted for and will

do wonders for our reputation among scholars and educational institutions.

MMPH> ANTIQUO
As I stated earlier on the Senate floor, there are several points
made by the Consul with which I agree. Certainly I consider Lentulus
a very worthy and deserving candidate to be the first recipient of an
educational grant from Nova Roma. I think that we should disburse
money this year that had been allocated to the Scholarship Fund in
previous budgets. However the Senate Audit Committee has not yet
completed its assigned duties, and thus it is still unclear exactly
how much money Nova Roma has. No budget has been passed based on a
latest accounting. The Consul did not offer any sort of plan to
establish an endowment to secure the future of the Scholarship Fund.
He did take an initial step in establishing a consular committee to
oversee the Scholarship Fund, for which I applaud his effort.
However, as with the opinions expressed by other Senatores, I would
like to see more developed on the committee's procedures and
accountability to the Senate. I asked that this Item be tabled for
the time being and that a more thoughtful plan be submitted first,
before the Senate consider approving any disbursement from the
Scholarship Fund. Hopefully that can be accomplished before year's
end and I would be happy to see Lentulus be an applicant for a Nova
Roma grant. However, with our finances as yet uncertain, and no
provisions made to sustain the Scholarship Fund itself, I think it
would be irresponsible to approve any disbursement at this time.

CFD: Uti Rogas

FAC> ANTIQVO. Lentulus is a very skilled man and he would merit this
scolarship. But unluckly the project isn't well presented, there ar
no rules, no details about the appointment, no mission for the
scolarship, etc. I would suggest to donate this money to an
academical istitution indicating Lentulus as beneficiary. NR would
indicate the object of the scolarship too. I would suggest too the
possibility to mix this scolarship with the Magna Mater Project, our
most important live project.

PMS> ANTIQUO This is not a vote against the credentials of Gn Cornelius Lentulus, whom I consider a worthy candidate for an academic award. This is a vote against the manner in which the item was organized and presented to the Senate.We need to develop a selection procedure first. And the Senate should have some say into this procedure as we are entrusted with the peoples' funds when it comes to donations on behalf of the Senate and People of Nova Roma. Truly, this item is the cart before the horse, so to speak. I regret that Lentulus was placed in such an awkward position.

MIP> ANTIQVO. While I have the deepest admiration for my friend Lentulus I
still think money should be granted to projects and to individuals
when making parts of a project for NR benefit.







Item eleven

GEM> VTI ROGAS

QSP>UTI ROGAS

FVG>No

MMA>--YES--

TGP>VTI ROGAS

[GFBM] UTI ROGAS.

[CFBQ] UTI ROGAS: With the correction of the term for "All other
citizens appointed by the Senate to govern a province of Nova Roma"
from governor to "Legatus Pro Praetore" I will support this point,
with my thanks to the Consul for listening to advise.

PC>UTI ROGAS, although I expect I'll forget and call them all "governor"
anyway.

GSA>I abstain.

AMA - VTI ROGAS.

MBA> VTI ROGAS

LECA> Vti Rogas.

CCS> Antiquo. This item has been ill-prepared and needs research badly. The corrected proposal is better, but still historically uncorrect and a step towards imperial nomenclature, if I'm not mistaken. Why can't there be proper research done in good time? Why we have to rush into things with flawed proposals?
GPL> VTI ROGAS

ECF>Antiquo.

TOPA: Uti rogas. Close enough, and no more senate-appointed praetors.

CMM Vti rogas I vote to adopt this Senatusconsultum on the Standardization of Titles for Provincial Magistrates

ATS> Abstineo. I would like to be certain that all of these titles are completely accurate and historically-based.

QFM: Vti Rogas

MMPH> UTI ROGAS
The Consul has made every effort to accommodate the differing
opinions within the Senate on this matter. Not everyone agrees with
the result of his efforts, yet his proposal does move us towards a
more historical nomenclature provincial officers.



FAC> VTI ROGAS



PMS> UTI ROGAS - However the constitution still uses the name 'governor' so the official use of same is not legally incorrect . I will vote for this for the same reasoning outlined by Octavius Pius Senator, being that this revised Consultum will eliminate the Senate-appointed Praetor.

MIP> VTI ROGAS





Discussion question

GEM> ANTIQUO.

QSP>UTI ROGAS

FVG>No

MMA>--NO-- I do not know
enough about the proposal
at this time, and further
I believe there are other
areas to which our
attention would be better
directed.

TGP>VTI ROGAS

Because we need more than one real world project.

[GFBM] Since this is not an actual agenda item I don't feel it
necessary to cast a "vote." But I would like to comment on this
project. This project was started by Sabina Equitia Doris and is a
great program, although Doris has gone inactive in Nova Roma.
Educating the senate as to nature of the program and what would be
needed to properly fund it would help. As an Augur I was asked by
Doris to be on the e-mail list started for the project and to offer
support. I currently own the list, but am unable to contribute
financially to the project. I would have been happy to present the
project to the senate but was never asked by our junior Consul.

[GFBM]I would like to get a more information and a fully prepared proposal
how this should be done. How much would it cost to adopt for instance
one eagle? I hope to see such adoption, if possible, in the future. I
love birds of prey, especially with the connection to another
beautiful avian that my family have. ;-) I am inclined to give this a
chance, but I see no real comparison with the Magna Mater project,
which should stay our main project. Still the Magna mater project is
mainly financed by donations and when it comes to the Aquila Heliaca
project we might need to give a starting sum from the state treasury.

I have been on the "Aquila Heliaca project" for some time and I think
that some very good things are done there. I also think we will be
able to earn some very well needed public PR by supporting this
project. But then we should not just give the money. Our web-site must
make a public news of it and we must also inform the public about the
good that we do with the Magna Mater project. There is a Swedish
saying which says: "One should not put his light under the "basket".
Nova Roma need to stop doing that.

Still dear Consul I want a revised budget or at least some full
financial report and then some very clear rules for the Senate to
approve. Then I am willing to support something like this.

PC>ANTIQUO. I should like to know more before proceeding.
GSA> I abstain.

AMA - ANTIQUO

MBA>I like the idea so a tenative yes.

LECA> Yes, This project was and is the idea of a Nova Roma citizen and has already produced positive results. Unfortunately it hasn't seemed to grow in this past year.
CCS>Antiquo. This item has been ill-prepared and needs research badly. The corrected proposal is better, but still historically uncorrect and a step towards imperial nomenclature, if I'm not mistaken. Why can't there be proper research done in good time? Why we have to rush into things with flawed proposals?

GPL> ANTIQUO

ECF> Antiquo

TOPA: As this is a discussion, not an item, no vote is needed.

CMM Nego I vote not to adopt this project officially. While it is highly desirable to realize the promise and mission that we proclaim, it is important to remain focused as well.

ATS> Vti rogas, though this was supposed to be just for discussion. I would like a bit more information, too, but see nothing terribly wrong in proceeding

QFM: Vti Rogas. Anything is better then the MM project. Besides Iuppiter a Roman God favors Eagles. It will help cement our pact with him.



MMPH> In presenting this question, there was little information provided to
the Senate. Like other Senatores, I am curious to learn more on the
details. From what I was able to learn on my own, I consider the
project a worthy cause, one that Nova Roma should promote. It may be
feasible for Nova Roma to adopt at least one eagle. As much as it is
a worldwide organization, Nova Roma has managed to collect very
little money since instituting taxation. We have to be cautious on
what we spend and where in order to get the most for our money. At
the same time Nova Roma needs to live up to its promise of being a
religious, educational, and charitable organization. All these
concerns would seem to come together in this project. The aquila
heliaca has special religious and historical significance to us. Our
cost would be relatively minor while assisting in a worthy
educational and conservation program that at the same time would
provide Nova Roma with some exposure. Subject only to the details on
the cost to Nova Roma, I am therefore inclined to approve adopting
this program.



CFD: Abstino

FAC> ANTIQVO, I think that pur money could be spent for project as close
as possible to NR cultural mission.

PMS> I am open to discussion of the item in future.

MIP> ----





The following Senatores voted after the deadline:



Julila Sempronia Magna: her votes were:



Item I UTI ROGAS
Item II UTI ROGAS
Item III UTI ROGAS

Item IV Abstineo, with grateful thanks for my colleague's kind comments.
Item V Withdrawn
Item VI ANTIQUO : I find that diplomacy is key to communications among diverse groups, particularly when face-to-face contacts are impossible. I don't see the communication skills and restraint necessary for this important leadership position.
Item VII UTI ROGAS
Item VIII UTI ROGAS
Item IX ANTIQUO. I agree that it is far better to poll the citizens first, to determine their wishes.
Item X ANTIQUO I agree with my colleagues that there is no more worthy candidate; however, we must set the overall policy beforehand.
Item XI UTI ROGAS
Discussion question: A most attractive proposal, and I greatly respect the citizens who are already involved. I'd like to know more about what the imprimatur of Nova Roma would entail.


Curate ut valeate



M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima


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Salvete omnes,

The first day of the circenses dawned bright, and it dawned hot. But the oppressive heat could not compete with the excitement of race fans as the Circus filled with eager spectators. Bets were placed, allegiances were struck, and the racing world went about its business.

The presiding magistrate, Curule Aedile T. Artoria Marcella enters the circus, followed by today's competitors and the statues of the Gods. Music and dance abound. The moment is both solemn and celebratory.

1st Quarter-final

Contestants:

Rubra Fortuna II, Xara Arista, T. Arminius Genelia, Factio Russata

Stella Iudaeae, Aretas, M. Hortensia Maior, Factio Praesina

Velox Puteulanus Sors II, Felix Celeris, L. Vittelius Triarius,. Factio Veneta

Vita Brevis, Petronius Gnipho, Cn. Equitius Marinus, Factio Albata

Shouting and loud cheers break out as the four chariots of the first race take their places at the starting gates. As the fates would have it, the same quartet of chariots that began the Ludi Ceriales circenses would open the racing today.

The curule aedile drops the mappa and the chariots thunder out of their gates. Stella Iudaeae, driven by Aretas, broke away early and reached the first turn two lengths ahead of Felix Celeris in Velox Puteulanus Sors II. Rubra Fortuna II, with

Xara Arista at the reins, is barely edged out by Petronius Gnipho, a veteran and crowd favorite who drove Vita Brevis for Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.

After two laps with no change of position, the crowd is growing restless. Felix Celeris has closed the gap between Sors II and Stella Iudaeae and it threatening to take the lead. Gnipho is still in third, but looking to take over second before another lap is complet. Rubra Fortuna is rumbling behind close enough for him to hear, if not completely understand, the Greek woman's shouts.

Velox Puteulanus Sors II pulls ahead during the fifth circuit to take the lead and, not seconds after, Xara Arista in Rubra Fortuna passes Gnipho to move into third. The crowd roars its approval of the action, if not the outcome. By the end of the sixth lap, Rubra Fortuna II is gaining on Stella Iudaeae but, as the seventh dolphin moves, is unable to pass her. Thus it remains until the four chariots cross the finish line.

Results:

1st-- Velox Puteulanus Sors II, Factio Veneta

2nd-Stella Iudaeae, Factio Praesina

3rd-- Rubra Fortuna II, Factio Russata

4th-- Vita Brevis, Factio Albata

Second Quarter-final



Contestants:

Germanica, Anthropophagus, D. Arminius Brutus, Factio Russata.

Subligaculum, Albitinus Purgus, Q. Valerius Callidus, Factio Albata

Syntarsus, Spandex the Vandal, C. Aurelia Falco Silvana, Factio Praesina

Three chariots will race next. Germanica is owned by Decimius Arminius Brutus and driven by Anthropophagus. His claims about eating the other drivers alive should not be taken lightly. Syntarsus is driven by crowd favorite Spandex the Vandal, and rumor has it that he and his horses have trained long and hard in hot climates in order to gain an edge in today's race. Subligaculum.sits ready with Albitinus Purgus eagerly anticipating the start of the race.

The mappa is dropped and Subligaculum takes the early lead, leaving Germanica and Syntarsus to fight it out for second place. The forth dolphin has come and gone before Anthropophagus decides to make his move and begins to guide Syntarsus ever closer to the spina, hoping that Spandex would not hold his ground. His miscalculation cost him, and when Germanica begins the fifth lap it is on its side and without its driver. It is now a two-chariot race.

Syntarsus' team of horses is strong and hungry, and foaming at the mouth. Purgus glances back over his shoulder, his white-blond hair streaming behind him, and is alarmed to see Syntarsus all over the track. Right, left, right, left, and on rare occasion center. The crazed look of the horses alarms him even further. To the point that, going into the last turn of the race he avoids contact with Spandex' chariot by crashing his own into the spina. Spandex grins wildly as he drove his team on to victory.

Results:

1st--Syntarsus, Factio Praesina

2nd-Subligaculum, Factio Albata

3rd-Germanica, Factio Russata


Third Quarter-final

Contestants:

Aprilis, T. Iulius, Sabinus Crassus, Crassus, Factio Russata

Musagetes, Kniska, C. Cornelius Rufus, Factio Albata

Velociraptor, Vindex, C. Aurelia Falco Silvana, Factio Praesina

One of the younger owners, and his own driver, T. Iulius Sabinus Crassus takes the field in Aprilis. He's joined by Spandex the Vanda's adopted son, Vindex of Hyperborea aboard Velociraptor, who is also barely into manhood. The younger men are divided on the track by Kniska, the driver of Musagetes. Kniska has the blood of Spartan nobles in her veins, but today it is her blood's temperature that matters, not its pedigree.

The gates open and the chariots are away, the thundering hooves paling in comparison to the thunderous cheers and the citizens of Rome declare their allegiances. Aprilis has the lead by the end of the second lap, with Musagetes second and Velociraptor third. Vindex urges his team on and they threaten to take over second place but don't quite succeed. Kniska driver her team of pure-white sabino Arabians hard and she slowly pulls away from the youth. Aprilis takes the first four laps without contest, but by the time the fifth has commenced Crassus can see Kniska pulling up next to him, Vindex not far behind. When the final line is crossed, it is Musagetes by a nose, Aprilis, and Velociraptor. Few races have been closer, but for Vindex the fact is of little comfort.

Results:

Musagetes, Factio Albata

Aprilis, Factio Russata

Velociraptor, Factio Praesina



Fourth Quarter-final

Contestants:

Biga Fortuna, Factio Albata

Venetus Magnus, Factiao Veneta

Vortex, Factio Albata

The Vortex is back! Q. Cornelia Quadrata's entry is known as much for its resilience as for its colorful design. Samicus has returned as well, and steers the chariot to its designated starting gate. Cn. Equitius Marinus' second chariot of the day, Biga Fortuna, pulls in next to Vortex to the cheers of the crowd. Aoife of the Silures has recovered from her injuries and is driving again, much to the crowd's delight. Giscon ignores the cheers as he angles his chariot-Venetus Magnus-into position. He knows what the woman had been through and the cheers were well deserved.

After a short delay due to the Aedile being distracted, the mappa drops and the chariots are away. Venetus Magnus takes the early lead with Vortex keeping within striking distance. Biga Fortuna lags a bit, but no one watching believes that the barbarian woman will remain passive for long.

Venetus Magnus hugged the spina close as it made the turns, closer than was considered safe. Both Samicus and Aoife kept their distance as the lead chariot lost paint on lap four and shaved off wood on lap five. Lap six was theirs alone, as Giscon had once too often tempted fate and was standing next to his overturned chariot as they drove past. Vortex remained in the lead and Aoife rested her team during the final lap. She was guaranteed a place in the next set of races-no point in tiring the horses.

Results:

Vortex, Factio Albata

Biga Fortuna, Factio Albata

Venetus Magnus, Factiao Veneta

Valete bene,

T. Artoria Marcella
Curulis Aedilis




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies nefastus publicus
est.

"I heard you glory in that you alone of the immortals saved the son of
Saturn from ruin, when the others, with Juno, Neptune, and Pallas
Minerva would have put him in bonds." - Homer, Iliad I

"We read that, on the birth of Zeus's elder brother Poseidon, his
mother Rhea saved the baby in like manner by giving his father Cronus
a foal to swallow, which the deity seems to have found more digestible
than the stone, for he is not said to have spat it out again." -
Apollodorus, The Library I.9

"I begin to sing about Poseidon, the great god, mover of the earth and
fruitless sea, god of the deep who is also lord of Helicon and wide
Aegae. A two-fold office the gods allotted you, O Shaker of the Earth,
to be a tamer of horses and a saviour of ships!" - Homeric Hymn to
Poseidon

"Hear, Poseidon, ruler of the sea profound, whose liquid grasp begirds
the solid ground; who, at the bottom of the stormy main, dark and
deep-bosomed holdest they watery reign. Thy awful hand the brazen
trident bears, and sea's utmost bound thy will reveres. Thee I invoke,
whose steeds the foam divide, from whose dark locks the briny waters
glide; shoe voice, loud sounding through the roaring deep, drives all
its billows in a raging heap; when fiercely riding through the boiling
sea, thy hoarse command the trembling waves obey. Earth-shaking,
dark-haired God, the liquid plains, the third division, fate to thee
ordains. `Tis thine, cerulean daimon, to survey, well-pleased, the
monsters of the ocean play. Confirm earth's basis, and with prosperous
gales waft ships along, and swell the spacious sails; add gentle
peace, and fair-haired health beside, and pour abundance in a
blameless tide." - Orphic Hymn 17 to Poseidon

"Arion [the poet rescued by a dolphin] wrote a hymn of thanks to
Poseidon that bears witness to the dolphin's love of music and is a
kind of payment of the reward due to them also for having saved his
life. This is the hymn: `Highest of the gods, lord of the sea,
Poseidon of the golden trident, earth-shaker in the swelling brine,
around thee the finny monsters (theres) in a ring swim and dance, with
nimble flingings of their feet leaping lightly, snub-nosed hounds with
bristling neck, swift runners, music-loving dolphins, sea-nurslings of
the Nereis maids divine, whom Amphitrite bore, even they that carried
me, a wanderer on the Sikelian main, to the headland of Tainarion in
Pelops' land, mounting me upon their humped backs as they clove the
furrow of Nereus' plain, a path untrodden, when deceitful men had cast
me from their sea-faring hollow ship in to the purple swell of sea." -
Aelian, On Animals 12.45

Today is the celebration of the Neptunalia, held in honor of Neptune
as the god of the seas and water. In the middle of ancient Italy's
really hot and dry summer season, when rivers were low and water was
most scarce, Romans sought Neptune's protection of irrigation waters
and works. To do this, they went out to the fields and forests and
built small huts called umbrae (shades) or tabernaculi (tabernacles)
out of leafy Laurel (bay) branches. Within the shade of these natural
tents they would picnic outdoors, drinking spring water as well as
wine to keep cool in these hot summer days. Richer folk might
sacrifice a bull to Neptune. Camping overnight with fires for cooking
(they shared the bull with the god) would be common, and the festival
continued the next day. Honoring Neptune on this day would assure
rainfall for the crops and forestall any drought. Neptunalia was also
considered to be an auspicious day to start new irrigation works,
which, despite the heat, were easier to construct in summer than
during other wetter seasons -- slaves did the hot and heavy work
anyway.

Neptune was the god of the sea (as Neptune Oceanus) and of all waters
for Romans, but he was not among Rome's most revered and powerful
gods. Little is known of his origin: when he was first introduced in
Rome, he already had acquired all the characteristics of the Greek
Poseidon. Despite the fact that his cult grew after his equation with
Poseidon, Neptune was far less popular among Roman sailors than
Poseidon was with Greek mariners.

The Neptunalia was originally mostly a private affair concerned with
Neptune's protection of fresh agricultural water. It took on greater
significance as a public observance after Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa,
Augustus's military Chief of Staff and his Admiral, dedicated a temple
and porticus to Neptune after his naval victories over Marc Antony at
Azio and, shortly thereafter, at the decisive battle of Actium, in 31
BC. Agrippa's sanctuary was in the Campus Martius between his Pantheon
and baths, and after it was dedicated in 25 BC, the porticus may have
been the center for the public aspects of the Neptunalia. (Agrippa was
apparently a great fan of Neptune, and coins honoring Agrippa
routinely featured Neptune.) This Neptune complex was completely
restructured by Hadrian when he also rebuilt the Pantheon, so it is
difficult to discern the Agrippan design and functions of the
structure.

Neptune was also held in high regard as Neptune Equestor, the god and
patron of the extremely popular horse races and of horses. As early as
206 BC, one of his temples was located near the Circus Flaminius, one
of the larger trace-tracks and the place where the equites, members of
the equestrian class, mustered for their ceremonies outside the
pomerium or ceremonial boundary of the city. The horse connection was
obvious: Neptune Oceanus was often depicted surfing on a sea shell
towed by "sea horses" (actually hippocampi, half horses and half fish
- in front to back order, of course: think of the alternative!) Part
of the Neptune myth is that he gave the first horses to men.

The areas around the Circus Flaminius and the Pantheon sometimes
flooded after spring rains in obvious manifestations of Neptune. A
coin issued around 40 BC depicted the Circus Flaminius Neptune temple
on a podium without an approaching staircase, and this has led to
conjecture that the temple might only have been used during floods
when it would be approached by boats.

Neptune usually carried the identifying trident and was accompanied by
dolphins. Rome's most famous shell-surfing Neptune is not Ancient
Roman at all. The twenty-foot-high marble statue was finished in 1761
by Pietro Bracci, under the direction of architect Nicola Salvi, as
the centerpiece of the Trevi fountain. Fittingly, it marks the end of
the Virgine aqueduct, which was originally extended to the Piazza di
Trevi by that same Agrippa who built the Temple of Neptune not far
away at the Pantheon.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Apollodorus, Homer, Aelian, Wikipedia

Salve Claudio from Nea Polis (Napoli),

would you be so kind to resend your message of last week, as I have
unfortunately missplaced it and kind find it anymore. I am very
grateful for your offered support and would like to get in contact
with you. We are getting more and more support for our project, A
temple for the Gods in Rome, and especially the support from Italy is
very important for us.

So thank you again for your kind words and offer of support
and looking forward to your resend eMail.

Vale
Titus Aquila

Salvete omnes

Here are the second set of questions in the contest.

1. The Roman defeat of the Gauls under Vercingetorix could be
regarded as revenge for what event much earlier in Rome's history.
What was that event, and when was it?

2. What was the only part of Rome unaffected by that earlier
event, and why did this part escape?

3. What priestly office, which he bribed his way into, did
Iulius Caesar have to give up to pursue a military career, and why?

4. What was the highest public office Iulius Caesar occupied?

5. To what status was he elevated after his death?

6. Name the structure in Roma, north of the Forum, which
contained many shops (for those who could afford to buy things) and
was also the headquarters for the receipt and distribution of grain?


7. What is the name of the tall buildings, (large blocks of
small apartments), where the poorer citizens lived?


8. As public land was originally set aside for food production,
and as there were many unoccupied potential farmers in the city, why
were there terrible grain shortages in the late Republic? Please give
the latin name for the public land in your answer.


9. Which two brothers went down in history as martyrs to the
cause of social reform for attempting to make the social system
friendlier to the lower classes of Rome and extend land ownership?


10. Name the two political parties (not social classes) that
represented the two sides in this civil strife.


Answers by 6pm Rome time on Wednesday 25 July to the following email
address, please:

jbshr1pwa@...

Good luck to you all.

Valete optime

C. Marcius Crispus

Hi:
Has anyone delved into the issues surrounding the collapse of the Roman
Empire, and the possible light it can shed on our own Empire? What was
it? The loss of Democracy? The use of personal militias?

Any insight?

Can we create a NOVA ROMA sans the dangers of collapse?

CSC

In a message dated 7/23/2007 12:08:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
c_caissie@... writes:

Has anyone delved into the issues surrounding the collapse of the Roman
Empire, and the possible light it can shed on our own Empire? What was
it? The loss of Democracy? The use of personal militias?

Several things contributed to the decline. But for me it was the plague of
the second century that eliminated 50% of the Roman army, mixed in with the
universal citizenship decree of Antoninus. The army professionalism sank, as did
recruiting, since there was no reason for non Italians to join the Armed
Forces to gain citizenship. By Germanizing the army, the stage was set for some
spectacular failures in the third, fourth, fifth centuries.

Since the US has only been around for two centuries I don't see a decline as
yet. I do see that a plateau that has been reached, with no more growth. I
believe the Media has played a large part in this.

Q. Fabius Maximus



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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SALVETE!

During this year Ludi Victoriae Caesaris a Military Contest is
organized. It include two questions once at two days and, as
participant, you have 48 hours to answer following the program
posted by curule aedilis T. Artoria Marcella:

- 21 July - questions I and II.
- 23 July - questions III and IV.
- 25 July - questions V and VI.
- 27 July - questions VII and VIII.
- 29 July - contest results.

The questions, in connection with that Ludi, are inspired from
structural, technological history of late republic roman army,
including strategy and tactics. For good answers you can obtain
maximum 2 points per each question.
To the Contest can participate Nova Romans citizens, provisional
citizens and members of various Nova Roma mailing lists.
Only answers send to: iulius_sabinus@... will be counted.

Ludi Victoriae Caesaris Military Contest II:

This Military Contest is based by a simple scenario: YOU, the
participant, are the Legion commander. During the contest time you
must demonstrate that you are able to command that legion (late
republican period) and you have the necessaries knowledge to do that.

QUESTION No. III:

What is the difference between speculatores and exploratores?

QUESTION No. IV:

If your legion will fight in triplex acies, how many cohorts you
have in each line?

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

On 7/23/07, QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:

>
>
> Since the US has only been around for two centuries I don't see a decline
> as
> yet. I do see that a plateau that has been reached, with no more
> growth. I
> believe the Media has played a large part in this.

I see the beginning of the decline. I don't think you can attribute it as
the fault of any one person or group.

Just twenty-five years ago, 'citizenship' was something taught by most
schools. It took on many forms, from teaching about civic duties and
responsiblities, teaching about why the US was formed, the key events in the
history, and had a sub-text of "What it means to be an American."

Now, as far as I can tell, it's no longer taught in most public schools. And
now a second generation is growing up in a state of relative luxury, with no
true test. My grandparents had the Great Depression and WWII, events which
galvanized their generation. My parents had Vietnam and the counter-culture
revolution, which though virtual polar opposites of the events of the 30's
and 40's, still galvanized a large part of the culture.

My generation has had no true test. Nothing that has brought us together as
almost one voice with a common cause. There hasn't been that unifying force
like the Cold War (we got the tail end of it) or soup lines around the
block. We've had a few bumps in the road, sure, but nothing serious. In
fact, we've had a lot more good times. The Internet and satellite media
brought the world to our desktop. And now my generation's kids are being
brought up in an era of instant gratification and total relative safety.

Then there is mass immigration. I have nothing against people who want to
come to this or any other country because they have more opportunity to
thrive and give their children the best chances for success. That is what
historically made our country great. but with so much information readily
available so easily, there is no need to assimilate into the 'melting pot'
anymore. There is not much incentive to become a full citizen when you get
all the priviledges of citizenship for free, much like in mid and late
empire era Rome. Citizenship has been devalued so much it is virtually
worthless. Look at our pathetic voter turnouts, and how almost everyone
tries to get out of jury duty.

I see the same rotting from the inside that became the downfall of Rome. I
see the continent becoming a land of fractured kingdoms regionalized along
cultural boundries. Maybe they'll operate on the same basic standards of
Western Civilization, but there will be a lot of changes. A move towards a
police state in some places, 'hippy nirvana' someplace else, a more
fundamentalist area perhaps in the midwest and south. It won't happen
overnight, and probably not in my lifetime, but it is coming.

History is a never-ending cultural war.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M•CALIDIVS•GRACCHVS•QVIRITVBVS•S•P•D

OMNIBVS SALVTEM DECIT CALIDIVS

I have just watched the conclusion of HBO's second series of ROME and
I must admit I will miss these nights looking forward to each episode
and then watching the episodes repeated during the week.

With each episode you became a time traveller going back to ROMA
ANTIQVA. I would venture to say that there are few productions that
could equal the scholarship and attention to detail that went in to
its making.

The first series was excellent but the second, in my view, surpassed
it and the only regret must surely be that there won't be a third
series. If the BBC's "I CLAVDIVS" proved anything, it was that the
intrigues of the Imperial Palace would have provided the HBO/BBC
collaboration with more than enough material. It certainly would have
been interesting to see how HBO's young Octavian would have developed
as a character.

That said, let us be thankful for what we have! I bought series 1 and
will definitely buy series 2 - I sincerely commend them to you!

Respectfully

CVRATE VT VALEATIS

M•CALIDIVS•GRACCHVS


TVVS• IN• SODILICIO• RES •PVBLICA• ROMANÆ

VERITAS•LVX•MEA


L•ARMINIO•Ti• GALERIO COSS

EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C

Ex offico Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Marcus Martianius Gangalius is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare
of the province of California and shall be my personal representative
in the province.

M. Calidius Gracchus is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare of the
province of Hibernia and shall be my personal representative in the
province.

Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall work
to rebuild and organize their respective provinces.

Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall
submit to me a written report of the status of their province by the
pr. Id. Nov. 2760 A.U.C. ( Nov.12th)

Their term of appointment shall extend until pr. Kal. Ian.(December
31st 2760) or until the Nova Roman Senate appoints a Legatus Pro
Praetore for their provinces

This edict takes effect immediately. No oath is required.

Given by my hand ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilis MMDCCLX A.U.C. (
July 23, 2760 A.U.C.), in the Consulship of L. Arminius Faustus and
Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est ante diem IX Kalendas Sextilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"In Korkyra a bull, leaving the cows, would go down from the pasture
and bellow on the shore. As the same thing happened every day, the
herdsman went down to the sea and saw a countless number of
tunny-fish. He reported the matter to the Korkyraians, who, finding
their labour lost in trying to catch the tunnies, sent envoys to
Delphoi. So they sacrificed the bull to Poseidon, and straightway
after the sacrifice they caught the fish, and dedicated their
offerings at Olympia and at Delphi with a tithe of their catch." -
Pausanias, Guide to Greece 10.9.4

"When tunny have been caught by fishermen Â… when they are safely
enmeshed in the net, then is the time when everybody prays to Poseidon
the Averter of Disaster. And as I ask myself the reason, I think it
worth while to explain what induced them to attach the name `Averter
of Disaster' to the god. They pray to the brother of Zeus, the Lord of
the Sea (Kratos Thalattos), that neither swordfish nor dolphin [who
wreck the nets] may come as fellow-traveller with the shoal of tunny."
- Aelian, On Animals 15.6



The Neptunalia continues today, with picnics in the woods and fields
outside the City. Neptune is the god of seas, water, earthquakes, and
horses. He joined with his brothers Iuppiter and Pluto to overthrow
the rule of their father, Saturn, and then divide the rule of the
world between them. Although he was best known for having a bad
temper, he also seems to have had a playful side and according to
legend he created creatures like the octopus and blowfish for water
nymphs to play with.

Being the ruler of the sea (the Mediterranean), he is described as
gathering clouds and calling forth storms, but at the same time he has
it in his power to grant a successful voyage and save those who are in
danger; and all other marine divinities are subject to him. As the sea
surrounds and holds the earth, he himself is described as the god who
holds the earth (gaiêochos), and who has it in his power to shake the
earth (enosichthôn, kinêtêr gas). He was further regarded as the
creator of the horse. It is said that when Poseidon and Athené
disputed as to which of them should give the name to the capital of
Attica, the gods decided that it should receive its name from the
deity who should bestow upon man the most useful gift. Poseidon then
created the horse, and Athené called forth the olive-tree, in
consequence of which the honour was conferred upon the goddess.
According to others, however, Poseidon did not create the horse in
Attica, but in Thessaly, where he also gave the famous horses to
Peleus. Poseidon was accordingly believed to have taught men the art
of managing horses by the bridle, and to have been the originator and
protector of horse-races. Hence he was also represented on horseback,
or riding in a chariot drawn by two or four horses, and is designated
by the epithets hippios, hippeios, or hippios anax. He even
metamorphosed himself into a horse for the purpose of deceiving
Demeter. The symbol of Poseidon's power was the trident, or a spear
with three points, with which he used to shatter rocks, to call forth
or subdue storms, to shake the earth, and the like. Herodotus states
that the name and worship of Poseidon were brought into Greece from
Libya; but he was probably a divinity of Pelasgian origin, and
originally a personification of the fertilizing power of water, from
which the transition to regarding him as the god of the sea was not
difficult. The following legends respecting Poseidon deserve to be
mentioned. In conjunction with Zeus he fought against Cronos and the
Titans; and in the contest with the giants he pursued Polybotes across
the sea as far as Cos, and there killed him by throwing the island
upon him. He further crushed the Centaurs when they were pursued by
Heracles, under a mountain in Leucosia, the island of the Sirens. He
sued, together with Zeus, for the hand of Thetis; but he withdrew when
Themis prophesied that the son of Thetis would be greater than his
father. When Ares had been caught in the wonderful net by Hephaestus,
the latter set him free at the request of Poseidon; but the latter god
afterwards brought a charge against Ares before the Areopagus for
having killed his son Halirrhothius. At the request of Minos, king of
Crete, Poseidon caused a bull to rise from the sea, which the king
promised to sacrifice; but when Minos treacherously concealed the
animal among a herd of oxen, the god punished Minos by causing his
wife Pasiphae to fall in love with the bull.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Pausanius, Aelian, Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (Peck, ed.)

Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Tribunus Plebis, Consules omnibusque SPD

In agreement with the Constitution of Nova Roma (Paragraph V.C), ONLY the Senate has the power sufficient to appoint provincial governors (Legati Pro Praetore) .

The Edictum issue by our Consul Galerius Paulinus is illegal because appoints two citizens as provincial governors with the title of Legati Consulari. The Consul has the power to appoint legati, scribae and apparitores, but these citizens appointed by the Consul cannot govern a province (or rebuild and organize their provinces).

In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people of Nova Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the Senate.

Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it contradicts the Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .

Curate ut valeate

M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
NOVA ROMA
-----------------------------------------
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

----- Mensaje original -----
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: martes, 24 de julio de 2007 3:29
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C


EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C

Ex offico Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Marcus Martianius Gangalius is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare
of the province of California and shall be my personal representative
in the province.

M. Calidius Gracchus is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare of the
province of Hibernia and shall be my personal representative in the
province.

Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall work
to rebuild and organize their respective provinces.

Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall
submit to me a written report of the status of their province by the
pr. Id. Nov. 2760 A.U.C. ( Nov.12th)

Their term of appointment shall extend until pr. Kal. Ian.(December
31st 2760) or until the Nova Roman Senate appoints a Legatus Pro
Praetore for their provinces

This edict takes effect immediately. No oath is required.

Given by my hand ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilis MMDCCLX A.U.C. (
July 23, 2760 A.U.C.), in the Consulship of L. Arminius Faustus and
Ti. Galerius Paulinus.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato M. Curiatio Complutenso sal.

Curiatius Complutensis, in view of the fact that the consuls have the
authority

"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others)" (lex Const. IV.2.b),

that the functionaries being appointed certainly fulfill these
requirements, and that the functionaries being appointed are
*not* "governors" as referenced in the lex Constitutiva, I think your
fears may be misplaced. I urge you to withdraw your intercessio.


Vale bene,

Cato

Vale, Fauste amice!

Congratulations!!! I'm very happy with you!!!

Vale & Valete
C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS.PLEBIS.NOVAE.ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: nova-roma
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:36 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Jubilate, felix Faustus


Salvete, quirites

Jubilate with me, quirites, my sad absence at least was not in vane!!!

Finally, I ended my post degree that has consumed so much of my time
the last months, specially together with a full professional agenda
that hadn´t given me much time. The older friends of NR know how long
I was due to end this journey, but it has finally ended.

I thank to queen Minerva by suport on these tiring days, and Urania by
inspiration... and my transpiration as well.

Now, well deserved vacations. I hope I come back by the ides. I long
by more romanitas again in my life.

--
Valete bene in pacem deorum,
L. Arminius Faustus CSL (now a M. Sc too !!!)

"Vigilando, agendo, bene consulendo, prospera omnia cedunt" - Salustius




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve tribune,

Many thanks for you for defending the honour of the Senate and the
people of NR!

Vale,

On 24.7.2007, at 19:25, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 9a. INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
> Posted by: "M·C·C·" complutensis@... complutensis
> Date: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:35 am ((PDT))
>
> Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Tribunus Plebis, Consules omnibusque
> SPD
>
> In agreement with the Constitution of Nova Roma (Paragraph V.C),
> ONLY the Senate has the power sufficient to appoint provincial
> governors (Legati Pro Praetore) .
>
> The Edictum issue by our Consul Galerius Paulinus is illegal
> because appoints two citizens as provincial governors with the
> title of Legati Consulari. The Consul has the power to appoint
> legati, scribae and apparitores, but these citizens appointed by
> the Consul cannot govern a province (or rebuild and organize their
> provinces).
>
> In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M.
> Calidius Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of
> the people of Nova Roma for this work, according the last votings
> celebrated in the Senate.
>
> Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
> XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because
> it contradicts the Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
>
> Curate ut valeate
>
> M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> NOVA ROMA

C. Curius Saturninus

Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org

CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

Iubilate with me, quirites!!

My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.

I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
Nova Roman brothers and sisters!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

Iubilate with me, quirites!!

My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.

I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
Nova Roman brothers and sisters!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

SALVE!

Congratulations, amice!

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS <c.arminius.reccanellus@...> wrote:
CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

Iubilate with me, quirites!!

My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.

I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
Nova Roman brothers and sisters!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"






"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Illustrus Cato,
The edictum by Consul Paulinus says:

"Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall work
to rebuild and organize their respective provinces."

The Constitution says:

"Governors shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
1. To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceded by six
lictors solely within the jurisdiction of their respective
provinciae;
2. To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those
tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely
within the jurisdiction of their provinciae (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others);
3. To manage the day-to-day organization and administration of their
provinciae;
4. To appoint officers to whom authority may be delegated, subject
to those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem
appropriate;
5. To remove officers whom they have appointed, or make changes to
their titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those
restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate. "

Rebuild and organize a Provincia are not tasks by the governors as
specified in this points?
In my opinion it's the same thing and Consul Paulinus ignored the
will of the Senatus appointing "private" governors.
Are we close to the dictatorship? the will of the Senatus could be
so easily ignored?

Vale
FAC





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato M. Curiatio Complutenso sal.
>
> Curiatius Complutensis, in view of the fact that the consuls have

the

> authority
>
> "To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
> which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts

being

> binding upon themselves as well as others)" (lex Const. IV.2.b),
>
> that the functionaries being appointed certainly fulfill these
> requirements, and that the functionaries being appointed are
> *not* "governors" as referenced in the lex Constitutiva, I think

your

> fears may be misplaced. I urge you to withdraw your intercessio.
>
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>

Salve Reccanello amice,

Congratulations and my best wishes!

Optime vale,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PROPRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
VIAT•TR•PL•M•C•C
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•G•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

P. Memmius Albucius Reccanello s.d.

Welcome to Caius among us !
All my wishes and these of all Gallia citizens, to him and our
congratulations to you and to Solaria.

Vale pater,


P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. pp. Galliae


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS
<c.arminius.reccanellus@...> wrote:

>
> CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D
>
> Iubilate with me, quirites!!
>
> My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
> Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.
>
> I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
> Nova Roman brothers and sisters!
>
> Vale & Valete
> C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
> ======================
> TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
> "Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"
>

In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
complutensis@... writes:

In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M. Calidius
Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people of Nova
Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the Senate.
Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it contradicts the
Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .

Salvete.

Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence in the Senate,
based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to take the job. I'm
still basically in charge of California, insofar as the events, and personal
appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I was on hand at Fort
Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and all the ex-Nova
Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL of Nova Roma, they
just did not like some of persons that run it. All those persons are Senators.
As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very persuasive why they
should not join.

Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as possible when he
realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on him.

Since California is a basic military state with four major bases, most of our
citizens were military personal. They are over in Mesopotamia right now.

So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year veteran of NR, who
lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in SF.

Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation in
Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are not permanent.
His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when they
have them.
Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care takers.


Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Proconsul




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Curiatius Complutensis Cato omnibusque SPD

I am sorry, but I must reply to you: no I cannot withdraw my intercessio.

Why? Simply:

- the citizens appointed by the Consul in his Edictum have not the confidence of the Senate to "govern" the provinces, the Senate has considered that these citizens are not the people who Nova Roma needs to govern these provinces, and the supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma shall be embodied in the Senate.
- the Constitution says that is the Senate who may appoint provincial governors
- I know that the Consuls may appoint functionaries or magistrates or apparitores, but the Consul, with this Edictum, appoints persons with the functions of the governors, persons who must work "as" governors, because following the edictum they "shall work to rebuild and to organize their provinces" and these are functions of the provincial governors.

This intercessio is not a whim, my obligation as Tribunus Plebis imposes me to defend the Constitution, the Senate and the citizens of Nova Roma, and this intercessio reflects the opinion of most citizens of our Res Publica.

Vale et valete

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Equitius Cato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C


Cato M. Curiatio Complutenso sal.

Curiatius Complutensis, in view of the fact that the consuls have the
authority

"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others)" (lex Const. IV.2.b),

that the functionaries being appointed certainly fulfill these
requirements, and that the functionaries being appointed are
*not* "governors" as referenced in the lex Constitutiva, I think your
fears may be misplaced. I urge you to withdraw your intercessio.

Vale bene,

Cato





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I am very pleased that Tribune Complutensis have issued this
intercessio! As a senator and as censor I support this action 100%.
Consul Paulinus overstepped his authority and I do not support the
Edict issued by the Consul!

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 7/24/07, M·C·C· <complutensis@...> wrote:
> Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Tribunus Plebis, Consules omnibusque SPD
>
> In agreement with the Constitution of Nova Roma (Paragraph V.C), ONLY the Senate has the power sufficient to appoint provincial governors (Legati Pro Praetore) .
>
> The Edictum issue by our Consul Galerius Paulinus is illegal because appoints two citizens as provincial governors with the title of Legati Consulari. The Consul has the power to appoint legati, scribae and apparitores, but these citizens appointed by the Consul cannot govern a province (or rebuild and organize their provinces).
>
> In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people of Nova Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the Senate.
>
> Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it contradicts the Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
>
> Curate ut valeate
>
> M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> NOVA ROMA
> -----------------------------------------
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Enviado: martes, 24 de julio de 2007 3:29
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>
>
> EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>
> Ex offico Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> Marcus Martianius Gangalius is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare
> of the province of California and shall be my personal representative
> in the province.
>
> M. Calidius Gracchus is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare of the
> province of Hibernia and shall be my personal representative in the
> province.
>
> Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall work
> to rebuild and organize their respective provinces.
>
> Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall
> submit to me a written report of the status of their province by the
> pr. Id. Nov. 2760 A.U.C. ( Nov.12th)
>
> Their term of appointment shall extend until pr. Kal. Ian.(December
> 31st 2760) or until the Nova Roman Senate appoints a Legatus Pro
> Praetore for their provinces
>
> This edict takes effect immediately. No oath is required.
>
> Given by my hand ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilis MMDCCLX A.U.C. (
> July 23, 2760 A.U.C.), in the Consulship of L. Arminius Faustus and
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D

I support Complutensis' veto!

In fact, despite Edictum Consulare XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. say "Legati
Consulare", the dues of these jobs are the same of "Legati Pro
Praetoris" (sorry my bad latin). And, the only who can
nomeate "Legati Pro Praetoris" is the Senatus!

Senatus had denied the appointment of Marcus Martianius Gangalius and
M. Calidius Gracchus to Legati Consulare (or "Legati Pro Praetoris",
in fact), so, the Consul can apoint them over the will of Senatus.

I support Complutensis' veto!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS wrote:

Oops!!

"Senatus had denied the appointment of Marcus Martianius Gangalius and
M. Calidius Gracchus to Legati Consulare (or "Legati Pro Praetoris", in
fact), so, the Consul *can not* apoint them over the will of Senatus.

I support Complutensis' veto!

Vale & Valete
C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

MARCVS·IVLIVS·SEVERVS·S·P·D

As Legatus Pro Prætore in the Provincia Mexico, I fully support the intercession issued by the Tribunus Plebis Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.
I also believe, as some other citizens do, that Consul Tiberius Galerius Paulinus exceeded the limits of his authority, and tries to exercise faculties reserved to the Senate.

Valete optime,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
LEGATVS•PRO•PRÆTORE•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
VIAT•TR•PL•M•C•C
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•G•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Fabi Maxime

I understand your situation in Provincia California, in many cases are the same in other provinces, and these provinces are governed or by voluntaries or by forced appointed magistrates ;-)

If Nova Roma needs governor for an individual province the Senate must authorize the Consuls to appoint a provisional governor, but the Consuls can neither must usurp the right and powers of the Senate nor can act of opposite form to the Constitution.

Vale

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

----- Original Message -----
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C



In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
complutensis@... writes:

In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M. Calidius
Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people of Nova
Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the Senate.
Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it contradicts the
Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .

Salvete.

Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence in the Senate,
based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to take the job. I'm
still basically in charge of California, insofar as the events, and personal
appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I was on hand at Fort
Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and all the ex-Nova
Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL of Nova Roma, they
just did not like some of persons that run it. All those persons are Senators.
As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very persuasive why they
should not join.

Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as possible when he
realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on him.

Since California is a basic military state with four major bases, most of our
citizens were military personal. They are over in Mesopotamia right now.

So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year veteran of NR, who
lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in SF.

Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation in
Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are not permanent.
His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when they
have them.
Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care takers.


Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Proconsul


************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Congratulations amice and my best wishes.

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

----- Original Message -----
From: C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Iubilate, felix Reccanellus!


CAIVS.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS.TRIBVNVS.NOVAE.ROMAE.CIVIBUS.S.P.D

Iubilate with me, quirites!!

My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.

I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
Nova Roman brothers and sisters!

Vale & Valete
C.ARMINIVS.RECCANELLVS
======================
TRIBVNVS.PLEBIS.NOVAE.ROMAE
"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tribune

You are wrong on both the law and my intent. They are, as the Edict stated,
my
personal representatives and have been appointed to my personal staff.
The will remain on my staff until the expiration of my term and not one
minute longer.

If a provincial Governor can appointee legates a Consul can as well as my
Imperium is
greater.

The Senate has seen fit not to appoint these individuals as "Governors" and
that is the Senate's right. It is also my right to appoint ANY citizen to my
staff and that is what I have done.

The Senate can appoint a new governor and I welcome that eventuality but
until that time
the work of building Nova Roma in both Hibernia and California goes on. I
will do the job I
was elected to do and I will do it with the help of any Nova Roman who is
willing to assist .

I stand by my Edict and I ask the Tribunes to support it.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Consul

>From: M�CVR�COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX
>A.U.C
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:34:45 +0200
>
>Salve Fabi Maxime
>
>I understand your situation in Provincia California, in many cases are the
>same in other provinces, and these provinces are governed or by voluntaries
>or by forced appointed magistrates ;-)
>
>If Nova Roma needs governor for an individual province the Senate must
>authorize the Consuls to appoint a provisional governor, but the Consuls
>can neither must usurp the right and powers of the Senate nor can act of
>opposite form to the Constitution.
>
>Vale
>
>M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS
>TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
>PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
>SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
>NOVA ROMA
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
>XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> complutensis@... writes:
>
> In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M.
>Calidius
> Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people of
>Nova
> Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the Senate.
> Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
> XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it
>contradicts the
> Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
>
> Salvete.
>
> Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence in the
>Senate,
> based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to take the job.
>I'm
> still basically in charge of California, insofar as the events, and
>personal
> appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I was on hand
>at Fort
> Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and all the
>ex-Nova
> Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL of Nova
>Roma, they
> just did not like some of persons that run it. All those persons are
>Senators.
> As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very persuasive why
>they
> should not join.
>
> Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as possible when
>he
> realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on him.
>
> Since California is a basic military state with four major bases, most
>of our
> citizens were military personal. They are over in Mesopotamia right now.
>
> So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year veteran of NR, who
> lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in SF.
>
> Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation
>in
> Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are not
>permanent.
> His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when
>they
> have them.
> Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care
>takers.
>
>
> Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> Proconsul
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Consul Galeri Pauline

Yes, is your right and your privilige appoint citizens to your personal
staff, but the staff of any magistrate must work to help the magistrate in
his normal duties, the staff cannot appointed to replace other magistrates.

It is not legal nor historically correct that a Consul appoint to scriba so
that he governs a province or he rebuilds it or he organizes it since that
must be the work of a magistrate who must be appointed by the Senate.

The Constitution says clearly (IV.2): Consul. Two consuls shall be elected
annually by the comitia centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They
shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations: ..........(IV.2.e)
To appoint accensi (personal assistants) to assist with administrative and
other tasks, as they shall see fit.

The Constitution do not says: To appoint accensi (personal assistants) to
govern provinces

The Constitution says (V.C) The Senate may, by Senatus Consultum, create
provinciae for administrative purposes and appoint provincial governors
therefor, who shall bear such titles as the Senate may deem appropriate. The
Senate may review each governor on a yearly basis and it remains in the
discretion of the Senate whether or not to prorogue such governors, although
this review shall not constitute a ban on the authority of the Senate to
remove governors from office as its discretion.

The Constitution do not says: The functions of the Senate may be usurped by
the Consules

The Constitution says: (V.C): Governors shall have the following honors,
powers, and obligations:
1. To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceded by six lictors
solely within the jurisdiction of their respective provinciae;
2. To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely within the
jurisdiction of their provinciae (such edicts being binding upon themselves
as well as others);
3. To manage the day-to-day organization and administration of their
provinciae;
4. To appoint officers to whom authority may be delegated, subject to
those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate;
5. To remove officers whom they have appointed, or make changes to their
titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those restrictions and
standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate.
The Constitution do not says: The Provinces can be governed by consulari
accensi (because they will be without imperium, they cannot proclaim edicta,

they cannot manage the day-to-day organization and administration of their
provinciae, they cannot appoint officers to whom authority may be
delegated, subject to those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall
deem appropriate and they cannot remove officers whom they have appointed,
or make changes to their titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those

restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate).

The Constitution says (V.D) : Should a magistrate's office become vacant
during the course of his term, the Senate may appoint a replacement to serve

out the remainder of the term should there be less than three months
remaining therein.

The Constitution do not says: Should a magistrate's office become vacant
during the course of his term, the Consules may appoint a replacement to
serve out the remainder of the term should there be less than three months
remaining therein.

Therefore your accensi will be only privati citizens in their provinces,
persons without imperium, because the Constitution do not says that the
consulari accensi may to hold imperium,

At last the Constitution says (IV.A.9) : Apparitores (Attendants).
Collectively, the apparitores shall not be considered magistrates, but
rather shall be appointed into various decuriae (corporations) to fulfill
those necessary functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one

of the comitia. They shall include the lictores, lictores curiati, scribae,
and accensi.

Therefore your personal staff, your accensi, are ONLY your attendants, shall

not be considered magistrates and cannot manage, rebuild, organize or govern

nothing in any province.

I mantain my intercessio.

Optime vale

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima


2007/7/24, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>:

>
> Salve Tribune
>
> You are wrong on both the law and my intent. They are, as the Edict
> stated,
> my
> personal representatives and have been appointed to my personal staff.
> The will remain on my staff until the expiration of my term and not one
> minute longer.
>
> If a provincial Governor can appointee legates a Consul can as well as my
> Imperium is
> greater.
>
> The Senate has seen fit not to appoint these individuals as "Governors"
> and
> that is the Senate's right. It is also my right to appoint ANY citizen to
> my
> staff and that is what I have done.
>
> The Senate can appoint a new governor and I welcome that eventuality but
> until that time
> the work of building Nova Roma in both Hibernia and California goes on. I
> will do the job I
> was elected to do and I will do it with the help of any Nova Roman who is
> willing to assist .
>
> I stand by my Edict and I ask the Tribunes to support it.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Consul
>
>
> >From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
> XIV-MMDCCLX
> >A.U.C
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:34:45 +0200
> >
> >Salve Fabi Maxime
> >
> >I understand your situation in Provincia California, in many cases are
> the
> >same in other provinces, and these provinces are governed or by
> voluntaries
> >or by forced appointed magistrates ;-)
> >
> >If Nova Roma needs governor for an individual province the Senate must
> >authorize the Consuls to appoint a provisional governor, but the Consuls
> >can neither must usurp the right and powers of the Senate nor can act of
> >opposite form to the Constitution.
> >
> >Vale
> >
> >M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> >TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> >PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
> >SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
> >NOVA ROMA
> >
> >-------------------------------------------
> >
> >ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
> >XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > complutensis@... writes:
> >
> > In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M.
> >Calidius
> > Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people
> of
> >Nova
> > Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the
> Senate.
> > Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
> > XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it
> >contradicts the
> > Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence in the
> >Senate,
> > based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to take the
> job.
> >I'm
> > still basically in charge of California, insofar as the events, and
> >personal
> > appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I was on hand
> >at Fort
> > Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and all the
> >ex-Nova
> > Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL of Nova
> >Roma, they
> > just did not like some of persons that run it. All those persons are
> >Senators.
> > As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very persuasive why
> >they
> > should not join.
> >
> > Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as possible
> when
> >he
> > realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on him.
> >
> > Since California is a basic military state with four major bases, most
> >of our
> > citizens were military personal. They are over in Mesopotamia right
> now.
> >
> > So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year veteran of NR,
> who
> > lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in SF.
> >
> > Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation
> >in
> > Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are not
> >permanent.
> > His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when
> >they
> > have them.
> > Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care
> >takers.
> >
> >
> > Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.
> >
> > Valete
> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> > Proconsul
> >
> >
> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
> >AOL at
> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Quirites!

.................

> Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation in
>Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are
>not permanent.
>His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when they
>have them.
>Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care takers.
>
>
>Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.
>
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus
>Proconsul

Proconsul who? Ill informed, who? I know of no Proconsul with that
name, who is appointed by the Senate at the present time. But I know
of a former one, but the Senate denied him the honor and powers of a
Proconsul. There seem to be a lot of usurpers in Nova Roma these
days.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senator, Censorius et Consularis
Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Amice!

>My deepest congratulations! Send my best regards
>to Spuria Solaria Amandaand also to Caio Meurer

Reccanello when he arrives! ;-)

>CAIVS•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS•TRIBVNVS•NOVAE•ROMAE•CIVIBUS•S•P•D
>
>Iubilate with me, quirites!!
>
>My wife, Spuria Solaria Amanda, is pregnant and my son, Caio Meurer
>Reccanello, will born at november, 2007.
>
>I have to divide this new (not so new, in fact, but...) with all my
>Nova Roman brothers and sisters!
>
>Vale & Valete
>C•ARMINIVS•RECCANELLVS
>======================
>TRIBVNVS•PLEBIS•NOVAE•ROMAE
>"Quousque tandem, Lula, abutere patientia nostra?"

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senator, Censorius et Consularis
Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salvete Quir ites!

I fully support the veto of Tribune Complutensis.

The Tribune has by his thorough arguments below
cut the illegal and non-historical ideas of
Consul Paulinus into pieces. The Res Publica do
not want or need a Consul who usurps the power of
the Senate. The delicate balance between the
Consuls, the Senate and the People is now
threatened by a person who doesn't seem to
understand the basic principles of neither Roma
Nova or Roma Antiqua.

>Salve Consul Galeri Pauline
>
>Yes, is your right and your privilige appoint citizens to your personal
>staff, but the staff of any magistrate must work to help the magistrate in
>his normal duties, the staff cannot appointed to replace other magistrates.
>
>It is not legal nor historically correct that a Consul appoint to scriba so
>that he governs a province or he rebuilds it or he organizes it since that
>must be the work of a magistrate who must be appointed by the Senate.
>
>The Constitution says clearly (IV.2): Consul. Two consuls shall be elected
>annually by the comitia centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They
>shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations: ..........(IV.2.e)
>To appoint accensi (personal assistants) to assist with administrative and
>other tasks, as they shall see fit.
>
>The Constitution do not says: To appoint accensi (personal assistants) to
>govern provinces
>
>The Constitution says (V.C) The Senate may, by Senatus Consultum, create
>provinciae for administrative purposes and appoint provincial governors
>therefor, who shall bear such titles as the Senate may deem appropriate. The
>Senate may review each governor on a yearly basis and it remains in the
>discretion of the Senate whether or not to prorogue such governors, although
>this review shall not constitute a ban on the authority of the Senate to
>remove governors from office as its discretion.
>
>The Constitution do not says: The functions of the Senate may be usurped by
>the Consules
>
>The Constitution says: (V.C): Governors shall have the following honors,
>powers, and obligations:
> 1. To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceded by six lictors
>solely within the jurisdiction of their respective provinciae;
> 2. To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
>which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely within the
>jurisdiction of their provinciae (such edicts being binding upon themselves
>as well as others);
> 3. To manage the day-to-day organization and administration of their
>provinciae;
> 4. To appoint officers to whom authority may be delegated, subject to
>those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate;
> 5. To remove officers whom they have appointed, or make changes to their
>titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those restrictions and
>standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate.
>The Constitution do not says: The Provinces can be governed by consulari
>accensi (because they will be without imperium, they cannot proclaim edicta,
>
>they cannot manage the day-to-day organization and administration of their
>provinciae, they cannot appoint officers to whom authority may be
>delegated, subject to those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall
>deem appropriate and they cannot remove officers whom they have appointed,
>or make changes to their titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those
>
>restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate).
>
>The Constitution says (V.D) : Should a magistrate's office become vacant
>during the course of his term, the Senate may appoint a replacement to serve
>
>out the remainder of the term should there be less than three months
>remaining therein.
>
>The Constitution do not says: Should a magistrate's office become vacant
>during the course of his term, the Consules may appoint a replacement to
>serve out the remainder of the term should there be less than three months
>remaining therein.
>
>Therefore your accensi will be only privati citizens in their provinces,
>persons without imperium, because the Constitution do not says that the
>consulari accensi may to hold imperium,
>
>At last the Constitution says (IV.A.9) : Apparitores (Attendants).
>Collectively, the apparitores shall not be considered magistrates, but
>rather shall be appointed into various decuriae (corporations) to fulfill
>those necessary functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one
>
>of the comitia. They shall include the lictores, lictores curiati, scribae,
>and accensi.
>
>Therefore your personal staff, your accensi, are ONLY your attendants, shall
>
>not be considered magistrates and cannot manage, rebuild, organize or govern
>
>nothing in any province.
>
>I mantain my intercessio.
>
>Optime vale
>
>M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
>TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
>PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
>SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
>NOVA ROMA
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
>2007/7/24, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>:
>>
>> Salve Tribune
>>
>> You are wrong on both the law and my intent. They are, as the Edict
>> stated,
>> my
>> personal representatives and have been appointed to my personal staff.
>> The will remain on my staff until the expiration of my term and not one
>> minute longer.
>>
>> If a provincial Governor can appointee legates a Consul can as well as my
>> Imperium is
>> greater.
>>
>> The Senate has seen fit not to appoint these individuals as "Governors"
>> and
>> that is the Senate's right. It is also my right to appoint ANY citizen to
>> my
>> staff and that is what I have done.
>>
>> The Senate can appoint a new governor and I welcome that eventuality but
>> until that time
>> the work of building Nova Roma in both Hibernia and California goes on. I
>> will do the job I
>> was elected to do and I will do it with the help of any Nova Roman who is
>> willing to assist .
>>
>> I stand by my Edict and I ask the Tribunes to support it.
>>
>> Vale
>>
>> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>> Consul
>>
>>
>> >From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
>> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
>> XIV-MMDCCLX
>> >A.U.C
>> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:34:45 +0200
>> >
>> >Salve Fabi Maxime
>> >
>> >I understand your situation in Provincia California, in many cases are
>> the
>> >same in other provinces, and these provinces are governed or by
>> voluntaries
>> >or by forced appointed magistrates ;-)
>> >
>> >If Nova Roma needs governor for an individual province the Senate must
>> >authorize the Consuls to appoint a provisional governor, but the Consuls
>> >can neither must usurp the right and powers of the Senate nor can act of
>> >opposite form to the Constitution.
>> >
>> >Vale
>> >
>> >M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
>> >TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
>> >PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
>> >SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
>> >NOVA ROMA
>> >
>> >-------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
>> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:20 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
>> >XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> > complutensis@... writes:
>> >
>> > In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M.
>> >Calidius
>> > Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of the people
>> of
>> >Nova
>> > Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in the
>> Senate.
>> > Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
>> > XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it
>> >contradicts the
>> > Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
>> >
>> > Salvete.
>> >
>> > Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence in the
>> >Senate,
>> > based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to take the
>> job.
>> >I'm
>> > still basically in charge of California, insofar as the events, and
>> >personal
>> > appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I was on hand
> > >at Fort
>> > Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and all the
>> >ex-Nova
>> > Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL of Nova
>> >Roma, they
>> > just did not like some of persons that run it. All those persons are
>> >Senators.
>> > As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very persuasive why
>> >they
>> > should not join.
>> >
>> > Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as possible
>> when
>> >he
>> > realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on him.
>> >
>> > Since California is a basic military state with four major bases, most
>> >of our
>> > citizens were military personal. They are over in Mesopotamia right
>> now.
>> >
>> > So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year veteran of NR,
>> who
>> > lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in SF.
>> >
>> > Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day operation
>> >in
>> > Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They are not
>> >permanent.
>> > His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates nominees when
>> >they
>> > have them.
>> > Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are acting as care
>> >takers.
>> >
>> >
>> > Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.
>> >
>> > Valete
>> > Q. Fabius Maximus
>> > Proconsul
>> >
>> >
>> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>> >AOL at
>> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
>TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
>PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
>SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
>NOVA ROMA
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senator, Censorius et Consularis
Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

SALVETE!

The answers for the questions I and II:

QUESTION No. I:
Taking in consideration the standard organization of a legion from
that period, how many legionaries do you have in your first cohort>>>
- 800 legionaries.

and which is the smallest organized unit of soldiers in your legion?

>>>

- contubernium, 8 soldiers.

QUESTION No. II:

How many denarii receive a legionaire as payment for a year>>>
- 250 denarii.

and which are the signifer responsibilities?>>>
- he carry the signum.
- he is responsible for the legionaries pay and savings.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		Nova Roma Sestertii
Date:		Wednesday July 25, 2007
Time:		12:00 am - 1:00 am
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Location:		http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Macellum
Notes:		Nova Roma Sestertii are available from HARPAX in the Macellum!
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M•CALIDIVS•GRACCHVS•QVIRITIBVS•S•P•D

SALVETE OMNES,

As one of the two CIVES that Tribune COMLVTENSIS would have the
people and Senate of Rome believe is now appointed DE FACTO as
Governor of PROVINCIA HIBERNIA, I should like to be afforded the
opportunity to speak.

As an ordinary CIVIS I have absolutely no confidence in the
abilities and judgement of a Tribune who pronounces an INTERCESSIO
for an alleged breach of the Constitution and will of the Senate
where none has actually occurred. The facts are HIBERNIA had no
Governor before the Senate took its vote on my candidacy for that
position and, as a result of that vote, HIBERNIA still has no
Governor. With respect, Tribune, read your own report, on the
Senate's July session where all this was decided. I was NOT
appointed as Governor of HIBERNIA.

Furthermore, to compound this basic error the Tribune then goes on
to allege that the effect of the EDICTVM issued by CONSVL PAVLINVS
to appoint me to his staff is simply a device to appoint Provincial
Governors by other means - this is nothing short of a scandalous and
unworthy accusation which has incredibly and sadly been given
credence by a least two Senators. Please read the EDICTVM again
Tribune and those SENATORES who are giving oxygen to this untruth.
CONSVL PAVLINVS has clearly appointed me as HIS representative in
HIBERNIA that clearly places me on his staff and that clearly is NOT
the same thing as being appointed as Governor with IMPERIVM by the
Senate.

Then there is the notion that because the Honourable CONSVL might
charge me with attempting to rebuild PROVINCIA HIBERNIA that somehow
then makes me DE FACTO Governor, this is equally misguided and
puzzling. Surely, the most obvious and salient point here is that
any CIVIS can and should seek to build, re-build, strengthen and/or
augment their own PROVINCIA? Are you Tribune and those SENATORES
who have backed you, really saying that these are things that can
only and should only be undertaken by a Governor? Surely, the self-
evident point is that the RES PVBLICA should want every CIVIS to
build, re-build, strengthen and/or augment not only their PROVINCIA
and but, indeed, the Republic?

On a personal note, let me assure you Tribune, your supporters and
those SENATORES who recently pronounced on my suitability for the
office of Governor , that having read the transcript of the July
Senate session and more to the point some of the comments made by
certain SENATORES, I can assure you that any desires I may have had
to hold that office again have now evaporated. Given the clear lack
of understanding, empathy, compassion and knowledge displayed by
some of the Senators in their comments as to the reasons that
compelled my resignation from office and withdrawal from public life
on two occasions within a dreadful two period of my life, they could
offer the position of Governor on a plate now and my honour would
compel me to refuse it. I neither need to be "redeemed" nor do I
have some inexplicable propensity towards "inconsistency". I
sincerely hope their life is never affected in that way. I hereby
publicly declare that I, MARCVS CALIDIVS GRACCHVS, am no longer
remotely interested in the position of Governor of HIBERNIA and
solemnly swear on my honour and before the gods that I shall never
seek nor accept that position ever again. I trust, Tribune, that
my declaration now is clear enough evidence that I am compliant to
the will of the Senate?

You stated Tribune in your reply to Senator MAXIMVS that you
understood the position regarding CALIFORNIA. Please allow me to
briefly enlighten you with regards the position for PROVINIA
HIBERNIA. Our Province appears to have one active CIVIS - me!! Our
Provincial Yahoo discussion board is inactive and regularly
spammed. We have lost contact with all formerly active CIVES, there
is no infrastructure in place for potential new CIVES not that there
appear to be any anyway and there are no events organised - in short
our "Province" is dead. This terminal decline has been going on
now for some two years what are you, Tribune, or the noble Senators
actually going to DO about this state of affairs? Argue over
misguided constitutional points? As a citizen I want to know what
collectively have you been doing to remedy this? All that
honourable CONSVL PAVLINVS has tried to do is enlist the help of
someone onto his own staff who may be able to assist in doing
SOMETHING! I think rather than attacking him for this he should be
commended for at least trying. The fact that one Senator can state
that it's better to have no Governor at all in HIBERNIA, given the
dire position here, rather have someone like me faults and all,
who was willing to try, sums it up really.


CVRATE VT VALEATIS

M•CALIDIVS•GRACCHVS


TVVS• IN• SODILICIO• RES •PVBLICA• ROMANÆ

VERITAS•LVX•MEA


L•ARMINIO•Ti• GALERIO COSS. (MMDCCLX A.V.C)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·C·C· <complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Tribunus Plebis, Consules
omnibusque SPD
>
> In agreement with the Constitution of Nova Roma (Paragraph V.C),
ONLY the Senate has the power sufficient to appoint provincial
governors (Legati Pro Praetore) .
>
> The Edictum issue by our Consul Galerius Paulinus is illegal
because appoints two citizens as provincial governors with the title
of Legati Consulari. The Consul has the power to appoint legati,
scribae and apparitores, but these citizens appointed by the Consul
cannot govern a province (or rebuild and organize their provinces).
>
> In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius and M.
Calidius Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of
the people of Nova Roma for this work, according the last votings
celebrated in the Senate.
>
> Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum Consulare
XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus because it
contradicts the Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
>
> Curate ut valeate
>
> M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> NOVA ROMA
> -----------------------------------------
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Enviado: martes, 24 de julio de 2007 3:29
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>
>
> EDICTUM CONSULARE XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>
> Ex offico Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> Marcus Martianius Gangalius is hereby appointed as Legati
Consulare
> of the province of California and shall be my personal
representative
> in the province.
>
> M. Calidius Gracchus is hereby appointed as Legati Consulare of
the
> province of Hibernia and shall be my personal representative in
the
> province.
>
> Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall
work
> to rebuild and organize their respective provinces.
>
> Both Marcus Martianius Gangalius and M. Calidius Gracchus shall
> submit to me a written report of the status of their province by
the
> pr. Id. Nov. 2760 A.U.C. ( Nov.12th)
>
> Their term of appointment shall extend until pr. Kal. Ian.
(December
> 31st 2760) or until the Nova Roman Senate appoints a Legatus Pro
> Praetore for their provinces
>
> This edict takes effect immediately. No oath is required.
>
> Given by my hand ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilis MMDCCLX A.U.C. (
> July 23, 2760 A.U.C.), in the Consulship of L. Arminius Faustus
and
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Quintus Servilius Priscus, Tribunus Plebis, Consules omnibusque SPD

While I am usually a strong supporter of Consul Paulinus I feel(for
the same reasons stated by my collegue) that this Edictum is wrong.
Therefore I support
fully Tribune Complutensis in his Intercessio.

Valete,

Quintus Servilius Priscus
Tribunus Plebis

M•CALIDIVS•GRACCHVS• QVIRITIBVS•S•P•D

SALVETE,

Surely, one of the most important duties of a CONSVL of Rome is the
health and well being of the Republic and ERGO the PROVINCIAE? Is
he or she not, therefore, entitled to use his staff in pursuit of
these goals?

It is also misleading to assert that the staff of the CONSVL are
being used to replace a magistrate, you cannot replace something
which does not exist. Please try to understand there is in reality
and effectively no PROVINCIA HIBERNIA other than on paper, even if
you could appoint a Governor tomorrow what would he or she be
Governor of, Tribune? An empty title for a non existant Province?
There is no day-today administration to take over or usurp!

MAIOR, myself, LVPVS and others were instrumental in "building"
PROVINCIA HIBERNIA the first time around before there was a Governor
appointed, how was that ok then or were we usurping the non-existant
magistrate also?

With respect, I must say I find it rich that both you Tribune, and
QVINTILIANVS cite and rely on historical correctness. There are a
number of things within NOVA ROMA and the constitution which are not
historically consistent with ROMA ANTIQVA and, moreover, the
Republic of antiquity - so I'm afraid to quote historical
incorrectness on this issue is simply applying a double standard.

You appear fixated with the notion that the CONSVL's staff would
*govern* please tell where you get this idea from?

MAIOR, myself, LVPVS and others were instrumental in "building"
PROVINCIA HIBERNIA the first time around before there was a Governor
appointed, how was that ok then or were we usurping the non-existant
magistrate also?

CVRA VT VALEAS

GRACCHVS






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS"
<complutensis@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Consul Galeri Pauline
>
> Yes, is your right and your privilige appoint citizens to your

personal

> staff, but the staff of any magistrate must work to help the

magistrate in

> his normal duties, the staff cannot appointed to replace other

magistrates.

>
> It is not legal nor historically correct that a Consul appoint to

scriba so

> that he governs a province or he rebuilds it or he organizes it

since that

> must be the work of a magistrate who must be appointed by the

Senate.

>
> The Constitution says clearly (IV.2): Consul. Two consuls shall be

elected

> annually by the comitia centuriata to serve a term lasting one

year. They

> shall have the following honors, powers, and

obligations: ..........(IV.2.e)

> To appoint accensi (personal assistants) to assist with

administrative and

> other tasks, as they shall see fit.
>
> The Constitution do not says: To appoint accensi (personal

assistants) to

> govern provinces
>
> The Constitution says (V.C) The Senate may, by Senatus Consultum,

create

> provinciae for administrative purposes and appoint provincial

governors

> therefor, who shall bear such titles as the Senate may deem

appropriate. The

> Senate may review each governor on a yearly basis and it remains

in the

> discretion of the Senate whether or not to prorogue such

governors, although

> this review shall not constitute a ban on the authority of the

Senate to

> remove governors from office as its discretion.
>
> The Constitution do not says: The functions of the Senate may be

usurped by

> the Consules
>
> The Constitution says: (V.C): Governors shall have the following

honors,

> powers, and obligations:
> 1. To hold imperium and have the honor of being preceded by six

lictors

> solely within the jurisdiction of their respective provinciae;
> 2. To proclaim those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in

those tasks

> which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma, solely within

the

> jurisdiction of their provinciae (such edicts being binding upon

themselves

> as well as others);
> 3. To manage the day-to-day organization and administration of

their

> provinciae;
> 4. To appoint officers to whom authority may be delegated,

subject to

> those restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem

appropriate;

> 5. To remove officers whom they have appointed, or make changes

to their

> titles and/or delegated authority, subject to those restrictions

and

> standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate.
> The Constitution do not says: The Provinces can be governed by

consulari

> accensi (because they will be without imperium, they cannot

proclaim edicta,

>
> they cannot manage the day-to-day organization and administration

of their

> provinciae, they cannot appoint officers to whom authority may be
> delegated, subject to those restrictions and standards as the

Senate shall

> deem appropriate and they cannot remove officers whom they have

appointed,

> or make changes to their titles and/or delegated authority,

subject to those

>
> restrictions and standards as the Senate shall deem appropriate).
>
> The Constitution says (V.D) : Should a magistrate's office become

vacant

> during the course of his term, the Senate may appoint a

replacement to serve

>
> out the remainder of the term should there be less than three

months

> remaining therein.
>
> The Constitution do not says: Should a magistrate's office become

vacant

> during the course of his term, the Consules may appoint a

replacement to

> serve out the remainder of the term should there be less than

three months

> remaining therein.
>
> Therefore your accensi will be only privati citizens in their

provinces,

> persons without imperium, because the Constitution do not says

that the

> consulari accensi may to hold imperium,
>
> At last the Constitution says (IV.A.9) : Apparitores (Attendants).
> Collectively, the apparitores shall not be considered magistrates,

but

> rather shall be appointed into various decuriae (corporations) to

fulfill

> those necessary functions as shall be assigned to them by law

enacted by one

>
> of the comitia. They shall include the lictores, lictores curiati,

scribae,

> and accensi.
>
> Therefore your personal staff, your accensi, are ONLY your

attendants, shall

>
> not be considered magistrates and cannot manage, rebuild, organize

or govern

>
> nothing in any province.
>
> I mantain my intercessio.
>
> Optime vale
>
> M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
> SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
> 2007/7/24, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>:
> >
> > Salve Tribune
> >
> > You are wrong on both the law and my intent. They are, as the

Edict

> > stated,
> > my
> > personal representatives and have been appointed to my personal

staff.

> > The will remain on my staff until the expiration of my term and

not one

> > minute longer.
> >
> > If a provincial Governor can appointee legates a Consul can as

well as my

> > Imperium is
> > greater.
> >
> > The Senate has seen fit not to appoint these individuals

as "Governors"

> > and
> > that is the Senate's right. It is also my right to appoint ANY

citizen to

> > my
> > staff and that is what I have done.
> >
> > The Senate can appoint a new governor and I welcome that

eventuality but

> > until that time
> > the work of building Nova Roma in both Hibernia and California

goes on. I

> > will do the job I
> > was elected to do and I will do it with the help of any Nova

Roman who is

> > willing to assist .
> >
> > I stand by my Edict and I ask the Tribunes to support it.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Consul
> >
> >
> > >From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
> > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM CONSULARE
> > XIV-MMDCCLX
> > >A.U.C
> > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:34:45 +0200
> > >
> > >Salve Fabi Maxime
> > >
> > >I understand your situation in Provincia California, in many

cases are

> > the
> > >same in other provinces, and these provinces are governed or by
> > voluntaries
> > >or by forced appointed magistrates ;-)
> > >
> > >If Nova Roma needs governor for an individual province the

Senate must

> > >authorize the Consuls to appoint a provisional governor, but

the Consuls

> > >can neither must usurp the right and powers of the Senate nor

can act of

> > >opposite form to the Constitution.
> > >
> > >Vale
> > >
> > >M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> > >TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> > >PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
> > >SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
> > >NOVA ROMA
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:20 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] INTERCESSIO AGAINST EDICTUM

CONSULARE

> > >XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:35:21 AM Pacific Daylight

Time,

> > > complutensis@... writes:
> > >
> > > In addition, the appointed citizens M. Martianus Gangalius

and M.

> > >Calidius
> > > Gracchus do not enjoy the confidence of the Senate and of

the people

> > of
> > >Nova
> > > Roma for this work, according the last votings celebrated in

the

> > Senate.
> > > Therefore I pronounce my INTERCESSIO against the Edictum

Consulare

> > > XIV-MMDCCLX A.U.C. issued by the Consul Tiberius Paulinus

because it

> > >contradicts the
> > > Constitution and the decisions of the Senate .
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > > Well, Tribune apparently no one in CAL enjoys any confidence

in the

> > >Senate,
> > > based on the number of voluntaries that rushed forward to

take the

> > job.
> > >I'm
> > > still basically in charge of California, insofar as the

events, and

> > >personal
> > > appearances since I have never been physically replaced. I

was on hand

> > >at Fort
> > > Mac Arthur in San Pedro for a gathering of two Legiones and

all the

> > >ex-Nova
> > > Romans on hand told me the same thing, they liked the IDEAL

of Nova

> > >Roma, they
> > > just did not like some of persons that run it. All those

persons are

> > >Senators.
> > > As for getting new recruits, the ex NR civvies are very

persuasive why

> > >they
> > > should not join.
> > >
> > > Infact the last Senate appointee fled Nova Roma as fast as

possible

> > when
> > >he
> > > realized just exactly how much pressure was to be placed on

him.

> > >
> > > Since California is a basic military state with four major

bases, most

> > >of our
> > > citizens were military personal. They are over in

Mesopotamia right

> > now.
> > >
> > > So there are two logical choices, myself, a nine year

veteran of NR,

> > who
> > > lives in LA or Gangalius, an eight year veteran who lives in

SF.

> > >
> > > Since our Consul is given Imperium to oversee the day to day

operation

> > >in
> > > Rome, his appointments do not violate the constitution. They

are not

> > >permanent.
> > > His edictum basically says, he will accept the Senates

nominees when

> > >they
> > > have them.
> > > Until then, the people named in the edictum simply are

acting as care

> > >takers.
> > >
> > >
> > > Suggest you withdraw your veto as being ill informed.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > > Q. Fabius Maximus
> > > Proconsul
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of

the all-new

> > >AOL at
> > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
> PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
> SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>