Salve Modiane et salvete omnes,.

>What really is Imperium in Nova Roma?

The current definition can be found in the Lex Arminia Equitia de imperio at:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_Equitia_de_imperio_%28Nova_Roma%29

The pertinent definitions are these:
This law is intended to correct the use of an ancient Roman definition in the Nova Roman legal system and to be a basis for present and future legislation.

1. POTESTAS

In Nova Roma, we understand potestas as:

A. Ius coercendi minor, the power to compel obedience in the name of the state, within the duties of the magistrate.
B. Ius edicendi, the power to issue edicts and nominate scribes.
C. Partial iurisdictio, the power to interpret the law within the duties of the magistrate holding the Potestas.
D. Ius contionis habendae, the power to hold a contio, including a question in a Comitia already called by a magistrate. The question must be included by the magistrate who called the comitia under the official authority of the magistrate holding the ius contionis habendae.
2. IMPERIUM

In Nova Roma, we understand Imperium as:

A. Having all the rights of potestas, as described above.
B. Ius agendi cum populo, calling the People to vote in any of their legislative Comitia.
C. Ius agendi cum senatu, calling to Senate to vote or placing a proposed senatus consultum on the Senate agenda.
D. Ius coercendi maior, the power to compel obedience using major force, on all Nova Roma subjects. In Nova Roma, this explicitly excludes physical force, and includes the force of law.
E. Full iurisdictio, the power to interpret the law, on all levels on all Nova Roma subject.
If the Praetor can legally confer imperium, as it is defined by our law, onto his scribes, then I think that the tabularium is not the only part of Nova Roma's legal system in need of repair.

Vale optime.
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Artoriae salutem dicit

I am fully aware of the lex you reference below. However, no matter what
the law "states" there is another aspect to it that is not published in any
lex and that is how does this "imperium" actually operate in Nova Roma. We
can say that magistrates in Nova Roma have the power to compel. However,
when I was consul I was told by another magistrate "tough I own the list and
its going to be this way." Any number of laws can be written to reflect
nice looking approaches such as "the power to compel obedience using major
force."

WHAT major force? This is all an illusion. There is no major force.

Imperium and Potestas both all boil down to magisterial authority within the
bounds of said magistrates office. I thinks its absurd to think that Cato
can give his scribae the authority to convene the senate (for example).
What is implied, however, is that he invest in them his authority so they
can update the tabularium in his name.

If for example his scribae try to call a contio or convene a comitia then
they would simply be laughed at. However, if they attempt to contact
another magistrate and indicate "I do this with the authority of the
praetor" then they are doing exactly what I believe was implied.

We can split hairs here... but I don't think that is necessary.

Vale:

Modianus

On 9/1/07, Ice Hunter <icehunter@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Modiane et salvete omnes,.
>
> >What really is Imperium in Nova Roma?
>
> The current definition can be found in the Lex Arminia Equitia de imperio
> at:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_Equitia_de_imperio_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> The pertinent definitions are these:
> This law is intended to correct the use of an ancient Roman definition in
> the Nova Roman legal system and to be a basis for present and future
> legislation.
>
> 1. POTESTAS
>
> In Nova Roma, we understand potestas as:
>
> A. Ius coercendi minor, the power to compel obedience in the name of the
> state, within the duties of the magistrate.
> B. Ius edicendi, the power to issue edicts and nominate scribes.
> C. Partial iurisdictio, the power to interpret the law within the duties
> of the magistrate holding the Potestas.
> D. Ius contionis habendae, the power to hold a contio, including a
> question in a Comitia already called by a magistrate. The question must be
> included by the magistrate who called the comitia under the official
> authority of the magistrate holding the ius contionis habendae.
> 2. IMPERIUM
>
> In Nova Roma, we understand Imperium as:
>
> A. Having all the rights of potestas, as described above.
> B. Ius agendi cum populo, calling the People to vote in any of their
> legislative Comitia.
> C. Ius agendi cum senatu, calling to Senate to vote or placing a proposed
> senatus consultum on the Senate agenda.
> D. Ius coercendi maior, the power to compel obedience using major force,
> on all Nova Roma subjects. In Nova Roma, this explicitly excludes physical
> force, and includes the force of law.
> E. Full iurisdictio, the power to interpret the law, on all levels on all
> Nova Roma subject.
> If the Praetor can legally confer imperium, as it is defined by our law,
> onto his scribes, then I think that the tabularium is not the only part of
> Nova Roma's legal system in need of repair.
>
> Vale optime.
> Artoria
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octaviae Agrippae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

> Salvete!
>
> I agree with Modianus, about moving the discussion about the Tabularium to the
> NRWiki list or even the SenatusRomanus.

There are issues involved here which, as the honorable consularis
Marinus has pointed out, go far beyond the technical. Perhaps you did not
receive his post; I did not, for Yahoo has been ailing again. The
discussion page, and the wiki list, seem to deal with technical issues in
cybernautese. I am an academic, not a techie, and speak English and Latin,
as well as bits of some other languages. Perl is not one of them.

Are you a member of the Senate? Are you aware that the praetores are in
charge of the Tabularium, as the censores are of the Album Civium and
censorial data base; these are not the purview of the entire Senate, nor, I
suspect, are many of the Senatores terribly interested therein. The Senate
does not consist of cybernauts, but of present and past magistrates. Some
are skilled in these matters, and some are not.

>
> The sooner the problems are sorted : 1. The personal conflicts of our praetors

What personal conflicts of the praetores? Cato is an affable gentleman
(indeed, his work requires that quality), and we are not angry with one
another. He has merely used improper terminology in his appointment
edictum, and communication has been seriously lacking, confined to this
discussion page rather than backed up by the simplest of e-mails. It
happens that I am among many who does not visit the wiki daily. Or weekly.
Like many, I have a host of other things to which I much attend, and just
now the preparation for my imminent AT classes is one of those
time-consuming things.

> 2. The actual business of
> sorting out the Tabularium.
> the better it will be for ordinary citizens like my self.

The website Tabularium (also known as the Old Tabularium) is in
reasonably good shape, though the more recent laws and those which were
illegally removed are not accessible there as they are not indexed. Perhaps
some are not onsite at all. My scribae are attempting to move law texts
from there to the wiki's New Tabularium, and to upload translations of said
laws into other languages, notably French, for Albucius is a French lawyer
who has translated the entire corpus of NR law into French. The wiki
Tabularium needs help, which is what my cohors and I are trying to provide.
As I suspect you are a new citizen and unfamiliar with the situation, I
shall point out that I proofread and corrected the English and Latin texts
of every law in the Tabularium--twice--when I was scriba to former praetor
Perusianus, who just posted about his plans to visit the US. We found it a
mess, and made it into a much better law library. We are trying to do the
same with the wiki version; it is a huge project, and we have to be able to
work unhindered. I am pleased to see that both of my scribae are now able
to access the site; the test will be if I can. Peritia mea his in rebus
non optima.

I look forward to cooperation in this venture with my colleague Cato and
his staff.

>
> Valete!
>
> C. Octavia Agrippa

Vale, et valete.

>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.comFrom: tau.athanasios@...: Fri, 31 Aug
> 2007 09:37:33 -0400Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tabularium and bad words
>
>
>
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.Could you folks please take this to the
> NRWiki list or use the discussiontab on the website?All this slinging back and
> forth of rhetoric is a waste of time and effort.Agricola indicated he was
> going to be away until Monday.I have seen no wrong doing by Agricola. I have
> worked with him in the pastand know him to be a dedicated and trustworthy
> citizen.Magistrates need to develop thick skins. If I had a dollar for every
> time Iwas insulted in Nova Roma I would be a rich man.Instead of this being
> the battle of the scribae, Scholastica (and herscribae) should simply work
> with the system. Use the NRWiki list and usethe discussion tab as requested,
> and leave the rhetoric off the main list.Valete:Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cato C. Octaviae Agrippae sal.
>
> Octavia Agrippina, I want to take great pains to point out that it is
> not a matter of "personal" conflict between my colleague in the
> praetorship and I; I harbor absolutely no ill-will towards her in any
> way whatsoever and believe the same is true on her part.
>
> ATS: Indeed. As I said earlier, we are not angry with one another.
>
>
> This is
> purely a professional matter.
>
> ATS: This deals for the most part with a lack of proper communication,
> for it seems that the cybernauts have forgotten that others do not sit glued
> to the vikipaedia, and even those who access it daily do not necessarily visit
> these discussion pages. An e-mail to the relevant magistrates, a simple
> two-line post, would have eliminated most of this misunderstanding.
>
> However, Cato amice, imperium and potestas are technical terms, and belong
> to certain elected magistrates, not their apparitores. That makes it seem
> that they have powers they do not, and should not, have.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> cato
>

Vale, et valete.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio saltuem dicit
>
> I am opposed to a "tabularium list." The NRWiki list is sufficient. In the
> past I have done updates to the tabularium and may again in the future. I
> am on 81 different yahoo groups and DO NOT NEED another one.
>
> ATS: Does this also apply to the one created by Agricola for this very
> purpose? From which my scribae and I were excluded?
>
>
> The NRWiki list is sufficient. WHY IS IT SO HARD for you, Scholastica, and
> others to use that list? Is it because M. Hortensia Maior is on that list?
>
>
> ATS: No, though certain elements of her behavior make it unwise for anyone
> she dislikes to post to such a list. It also happens that much of the
> discussion there is in cybernautese, a language I understand about as well as,
> say, a toddler unrelated to Avitus does Latin.
>
> I post to the Christians list, of which she is a member, though she is not
> Christian...I posted to the censorial lists when she was a member...
>
>
> There are many people in Nova Roma that I do not like, but you just learn to
> "suck it up" and deal with it.
>
> ATS: I do.
>
> I am not going to join some "tabularium" list when there are other means in
> which to communicate openly. The NRWiki list and the discussion tabs.
>
> ATS: Both of which are in cybernautese, and one of which seems to require
> skills beyond mine to enter, though I can read it.
>
> Vale:
>
> Modianus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> On 8/31/07, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...
> <mailto:albucius_aoe%40hotmail.com> > wrote:
>> >
>> > P. Memmius Albucius Censori Modiano s.d.
>> >
>>> > > I have full confidence in Marcus Octavius my colleague and our
>> > webmaster. I also have full confidence in Agricola. (..)
>> >
>> > You were right to have: Lucretius has unlocked this afternoon my
>> > access to the Tabularium.
>> > After this lost week, we are going to work together with Pr.
>> > Equitius's team, which I have invited into a Tabularium list.
>> >
>>> > > The main list is not the place to hash out these sort of problems.
>> >
>> > I fully agree, and you know that I always refrain posting for minor
>> > issues.
>> > Such things come here when things do not work normally inside our
>> > government.
>> >
>>> > > Simply work with them.
>> > I have been willing to, and I am still ready now and waiting for the
>> > others.
>> >
>>> > >(..) use the energy that you are investing in posting to this list
>> > Ah! Modiane! I have still used this argument, adressing Lucretio. Too
>> > late ;-)
>> >
>>> > >to actually working on the Nova Roma tabularium!
>> > Now that Agricola has unlocked his banning, this is possible now.
>> >
>>> > >Post to the NRWiki list
>> >
>> > I will enter the NRWiki list for learning on wiki tools, as already
>> > told to a few ones.
>> > We will deal with the Tab. project in a devoted Tabularium list. I
>> > have already invited the first concerned individuals at :
>> > Tabproject-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Tabproject-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <Tabproject-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > .
>> >
>> > Vale Censor,
>> >
>> > P. Memmius Albucius
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

I on the other hand would like the discussion to remain here, after reading each and every mail I would like to see how it's going to end and when.

Valete

Q. Fabius Sanga


----- Original Message ----
From: Rachelle Farnham <RPF.21@...>
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:54:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tabularium and bad words


Salvete!

I agree with Modianus, about moving the discussion about the Tabularium to the NRWiki list or even the SenatusRomanus.

The sooner the problems are sorted : 1. The personal conflicts of our praetors
2. The actual business of sorting out the Tabularium.
the better it will be for ordinary citizens like my self.

Valete!

C. Octavia Agrippa


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.comFrom: tau.athanasios@...: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:37:33 -0400Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tabularium and bad words




Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.Could you folks please take this to the NRWiki list or use the discussiontab on the website?All this slinging back and forth of rhetoric is a waste of time and effort.Agricola indicated he was going to be away until Monday.I have seen no wrong doing by Agricola. I have worked with him in the pastand know him to be a dedicated and trustworthy citizen.Magistrates need to develop thick skins. If I had a dollar for every time Iwas insulted in Nova Roma I would be a rich man.Instead of this being the battle of the scribae, Scholastica (and herscribae) should simply work with the system. Use the NRWiki list and usethe discussion tab as requested, and leave the rhetoric off the main list.Valete:Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est Kaledis Septembribus; haec dies fastus est.

"THE Hamadryads were Wood-nymphs. Pomona was of this class. and no one
excelled her in love of the garden and the culture of fruit. She cared
not for forests and rivers, but loved the cultivated country, and
trees that bear delicious apples. Her right hand bore for its weapon
not a javelin, but a pruning-knife. Armed with this, she busied
herself at one time to repress the too luxuriant growths: and curtail
the branches that straggled out of place; at another, to split the
twig and insert therein a graft, making the branch adopt a nursling
not its own. She took care, too, that her favourites should not suffer
from drought, and led streams of water by them, that the thirsty roots
might drink. This occupation was her pursuit, her passion; and she was
free from that which Venus inspires. She was not without fear of the
country people, and kept her orchard locked, and allowed not men to
enter. The Fauns and Satyrs would have given all they possessed to win
her, and so would old Sylvanus, who looks young for his years, and
Pan, who wears a garland of pine leaves around his head. But Vertumnus
loved her best of all; yet he sped no better than the rest. O how
often, in the disguise of a reaper, did he bring her corn in a basket,
and looked the very image of a reaper! With a hay band tied round him,
one would think he had just come from turning over the grass.
Sometimes he would have an ox-goad in his hand, and you would have
said he had just unyoked his weary oxen. Now he bore a pruning-hook,
and personated a vine-dresser; and again, with a ladder on his
shoulder, he seemed as if he was going to gather apples. Sometimes he
trudged along as a discharged soldier, and again he bore a
fishing-rod, as if going to fish. In this way he gained admission to
her again and again, and fed his passion with the sight of her." -
Bullfinch's Mythology, X

"Bear me, Pomona, to thy citron groves,
To where the lemon and the piercing lime,
With the deep orange, glowing through the green,
Their lighter glories blend. Lay me reclined
Beneath the spreading tamarind, that shakes,
Fanned by the breeze, its fever-cooling fruit." - Thomson, "The Seasons"

The month of September is held in honor of Pomona. Pomona is the
goddess of fruit trees, gardens and orchards. She scorned the love of
Silvanus and Picus but married Vertumnus after he tricked her,
disguised as an old woman. Her high priest was called the flamen
Pomonalis. The pruning knife was her attribute. She is a uniquely
Roman goddess, and was particularly associated with the blossoming of
trees as opposed to the general harvest.

Pomona is usually associated with abundance. In 19th century statues
and building decorations she is usually shown carrying either a large
platter of fruit or a cornucopia. A nude statue of her is in the
fountain in the little park before the Plaza Hotel in New York City.


"O royal Hera, of majestic mien, aerial-formed, divine, Zeus' blessed
queen, throned in the bosom of cerulean air, the race of mortals is
thy constant care. The cooling gales they power alone inspires, which
nourish life, which every life desires. Mother of showers and winds,
from thee alone, producing all things, mortal life is known: all
natures share thy temperament divine, and universal sway alone is
thine, with sounding blasts of wind, the swelling sea and rolling
rivers roar when shook by thee. Come, blessed Goddess, famed almighty
queen, with aspect kind, rejoicing and serene." - Orphic Hymn 16 to Hera

"I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bare. Queen of the Immortals
is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and wife of
loud-thundering Zeus, - the glorious one whom all the blessed
throughout high Olympos reverence and honour even as Zeus who delights
in thunder." - Homeric Hymn XII To Hera

"The homage of our song is also due to Hera, the goddess of marriage,
who interests herself in every chorus and guards the approach to the
nuptial couch." - Aristophanes, Thesmophoriazusae 970

"The parents of the maidens died because of the wrath of the gods,
that they were reared as orphans by Aphrodite and received gifts from
other goddesses: from Hera wisdom and beauty of form, from Artemis
high stature, from Athena schooling in the works that befit women." -
Pausanias, Guide to Greece 10.30.1

Today is held in honor of Iuno Regina, wife of Iuppiter and Queen of
the Gods, and second member of he Capitoline Triad with Iuppiter and
Minerva. Iuno is the Roman Mother Goddess, known to the Greeks as
Hera, and her original name to the Romans was Iunonius. As Iuno
Moneta, guardian of wealth and money, she had a temple on the
Capitoline hill in Rome where the empire's coins were minted.

There is a strong possible etymology for Iuno in the Indo-European
root *yeu-, "vital force", which has such derivatives as the English
youth. Although such a derivation could possibly be consistent with an
origin as a mother goddess, it is more likely that the root *yeu- is
used in the same sense as other Latin words derived from it, such as
iuvenis ("young man", with derivatives such as juvenile and
rejuvenate), which would imply that Iuno's nature prior to the
syncretism of Greek and Roman mythology was more akin to Diana's, as a
maiden goddess of birth or midwifery. However, the Roman absorption of
Greek myth replaced earlier characteristics of Iuno with those of
Hera, extending her domain from birth to marriage and promoting her to
the role of Jupiter's wife and the queen of the gods. She could also
throw lightning bolts like Iuppiter.

Even more so than other major Roman deities, Iuno holds a large number
of significant and diverse epithets, names and titles representing
various aspects and roles of the goddess. In accordance with her
central role as a goddess of marriage, these include Interduca ("she
who leads the bride into marriage"), Domiduca ("she who leads the
bride to her new home"), Cinxia ("she who loses the bride's girdle").
However, many other epithets of Juno are less thematically linked.
Iuno's own warlike aspect among the Romans is apparent in her attire.
She often appeared armed and wearing a goatskin cloak, which was the
garment favored by Roman soldiers on campaign. This warlike aspect was
assimilated from the Greek goddess Athena, whose goatskin was called
the aegis.

Iuno is very frequently called Iuno Regina ("Juno the Queen"). This
aspect was the one named in the Temple of Iuppiter as part of the
Capitoline Triad, emphasizing that Iuno's role as the wife of Iuppiter
and queen of the gods is the most important in that context. There
were also temples of Iuno Regina on the Aventine Hill, in the Circus
Flaminius and in the area that became the Porticus Octaviae.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Adkins and Adkins "Dictionary of The Roman Religion", Wikipedia,
Thomson, Aristophanes, Pausanius

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

In fact, it¹s getting late for the introductory Wheelock course to order
their texts...you MUST have the textbook no later than the end of the first
week of class, which seems to be the week of September 17th. Those who do
not have the text will not be able to do the homework, and will be removed
from the list. We are going to be much stricter about this element this
year; we cannot hold up the course or prevent other students from seeing
their corrections because some have failed to acquire the text, which is
readily available in many urban areas of the US and other English-speaking
countries, and apparently can be acquired from the Academia Thules itself.

As has been our policy, those students enrolling for Sermo Latinus I and
the combined Sermo Latinus I & II classes MUST have their textbooks BEFORE
THEY CAN ENROLL IN THE COURSE. Yes, it¹s expensive, and yes, it takes a
long time to arrive, but yes, it is essential, so order it NOW. Avitus¹
classes begin October 15th, and no one may enter them without the text in
hand.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD

In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I should
reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather than "imperium".
It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act fully
and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they speak
directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make it
clear that they have absolute authority I used the term "imperium",
and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI

Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict, I
appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]

I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my behalf,
with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.

Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur. [This
edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]

Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.

[Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007), during
the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]

Gaius Equitius Cato
Praetor

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Valete,

Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy

P. Memmius Albucius Pr. Catoni s.d.

I had noticed this point but kept silent on it, as you may have seen.

It seemed to me not the most important point at the time, but it is
now at your honour precising things.

This said, I think that, at certains major steps of the common work
which can begin once everyone is back (next Monday ?), we will have
to have you praetors validate the work which would have been done.
You could then have to see how you wish to communicate at best with
the other magistrates, the Senate and the CP, and the People.

But it is just a small matter of method.

Pls write Pr. Tullia or me privately on this last subject. We thus
may save time.

>and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law

As long as you are watching our institutions and easing their
working, you have my full citizen support.

Vale Praetor,


P. Memmius Albucius




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
> Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
>
> In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
> invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I

should

> reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather than "imperium".
> It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act fully
> and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they

speak

> directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make it
> clear that they have absolute authority I used the term "imperium",
> and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
> rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>
> EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
>
> Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
> omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict, I
> appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
> privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
>
> I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
> Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my behalf,
> with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
>
> Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur. [This
> edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
>
> Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
> 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
>
> [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
> after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007),

during

> the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Praetor
>
>

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>
> Valete,
>
> Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
>

M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.

Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to have
problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?

I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that I've
been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
now?

Optime vale!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...>
wrote:

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae

voluntatis

> S.P.D.
>
> In fact, it¹s getting late for the introductory Wheelock course to

order

> their texts...you MUST have the textbook no later than the end of the

first

> week of class, which seems to be the week of September 17th. Those who

do

> not have the text will not be able to do the homework, and will be

removed

> from the list.

/////// rest of message Snipped ///////

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

WTF is cybernautese? Rather what IS cybernautese? Do you mean technical
speech? I am on the NRWiki list and I am no programmer. You are a
classicist, I am a religious studies and philosophy geek. But I am capable
of learning when I try. I have read several times your term "cybernautese"
and "cybernaut" and I don't find it cute or innovative. All the folks on
NRWiki, the wikimagisters, are very helpful and will explain things. If you
are going to work on the website then you need to communicate in such a way
as to let you work on the website. My advise to you is that you "get over
it." So the technical "whiz kids" of Nova Roma use technical language on a
technical list. If you cannot take it upon yourself to learn the simple
nuances of Wiki coding then use the list to commutate your desires and let
your computer minded scribae do the rest. But complaining about
"cybernautese" is getting old and over-used.

Vale:

Modianus

On 9/1/07, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis
> > S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio saltuem dicit
> >
> > I am opposed to a "tabularium list." The NRWiki list is sufficient. In
> the
> > past I have done updates to the tabularium and may again in the future.
> I
> > am on 81 different yahoo groups and DO NOT NEED another one.
> >
> > ATS: Does this also apply to the one created by Agricola for this very
> > purpose? From which my scribae and I were excluded?
> >
> >
> > The NRWiki list is sufficient. WHY IS IT SO HARD for you, Scholastica,
> and
> > others to use that list? Is it because M. Hortensia Maior is on that
> list?
> >
> >
> > ATS: No, though certain elements of her behavior make it unwise for
> anyone
> > she dislikes to post to such a list. It also happens that much of the
> > discussion there is in cybernautese, a language I understand about as
> well as,
> > say, a toddler unrelated to Avitus does Latin.
> >
> > I post to the Christians list, of which she is a member, though she is
> not
> > Christian...I posted to the censorial lists when she was a member...
> >
> >
> > There are many people in Nova Roma that I do not like, but you just
> learn to
> > "suck it up" and deal with it.
> >
> > ATS: I do.
> >
> > I am not going to join some "tabularium" list when there are other means
> in
> > which to communicate openly. The NRWiki list and the discussion tabs.
> >
> > ATS: Both of which are in cybernautese, and one of which seems to
> require
> > skills beyond mine to enter, though I can read it.
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Modianus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE!

Unfortunately is weekend and probably many of us are not at home and
they can't participate in conformity with their actual desire.
In this moment I'm in this situation, too. With all of these I want
to point out some short thoughts:

As time as all Scholastica's staff has access to edit, I consider
that Agricola had done a good step, a step to collaboration. I agree
with this collaboration and it is very necessary as time as both
Cato's new appointed scribae are very valuable citizens, motivated
and together we can do a better work (here aren't doubts).

Agricola, I can understand that the changes you had done to a few
pages are only to set a technical standard of work. As time as wiki
really needs a standardization and all editors must keep their work
between these acceptable limits, I agree. It's normal to put these
standard examples under protection until editors will follow your
technical examples. More than that, as time as your standard
examples, in connection only with the visual part of the page and
not with texts, are well done and don't represent an alteration of
the laws, I will be the first who will follow your standard
examples. That because these are technical details and is in the
wiki pages organizing standard style interest.
No objection for this part.
If I had objections, they were in connection with the words and
methods used by a few to create conditions for that change. It
wasn't honest and correct from their part. I consider this last part
already past.

Now we can cooperate. It was proposed for those various lists, wiki
talk pages, wiki list and a new list I joined to the new list with
the hope that a common solution can be finding. Cordus joined, too,
and that it seems we are on the right way. I will participate to
wiki list and wiki talk pages, too. It's important because technical
reasons.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

I had a tooth pulled earlier that had become abscessed so I understand tooth
pain. You have my sympathies and I hope your pain clears up soon.

Good call on the auctoritas.

Vale:

Modianus

On 9/1/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
> Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
>
> In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
> invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I should
> reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather than "imperium".
> It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act fully
> and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they speak
> directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make it
> clear that they have absolute authority I used the term "imperium",
> and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
> rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
>
> Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
> omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict, I
> appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
> privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
>
> I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
> Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my behalf,
> with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
>
> Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur. [This
> edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
>
> Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
> 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
>
> [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
> after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007), during
> the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Praetor
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve M. Martianius Lupus et salvete Omnes!

As Praeceptrix A. Tullia Scholastica already have stated the Academia
server is situated in my home and it is thunderstorm season here in
the north of Scandinavia. To protect the server and my own computers
I have had to shut it down over and over again the last three or four
days.

Now it is up and going, please try it again. I am very sorry for any
inconvenience.

>M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>
>Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to have
>problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
>Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
>weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
>enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
>
>I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
>the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that I've
>been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
>what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
>now?
>
>Optime vale!

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senator, Censorius et Consularis
Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

The wiki management system is a necessary function of Nova Roma. It is
well within my Imperium to issue edicts that continues an ongoing
function of the state. The Magister Aranearius may at anytime replace
any and all of the WikiMagisters (Scribae) per my edict.

The constitution states that a Consul is allowed

"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts being
binding upon themselves as well as others);" ( Article IV section A
paragraph 2 clause b )

My edict does just that. It "advances the mission and function of
Nova Roma". Nothing more and nothing less. In hindsight it may have
been better, for appearances, to have issued it jointly with the
Magister Aranearius but not having done so does not in any way lessen
its validly, legality, constitutionality or effect.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gai Fabi,

A joint edictum is (and was) fine. The problem then seems to be with
the current year's edictum, issued by Consul Paulinus.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> writes:

> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Equitio Marino salutem dicit
>
> That is why the edict was issued jointly between myself and the Magister
> Aranearius (which I indicate below and in the edict itself), who DOES (or
> did at the time) have the authority to establish his own assistants. Or do
> you disagree with this also?

Salve Artoria,

Ice Hunter <icehunter@...> writes:
[...]

>> My edict gives A. Apollonius Cordus and M. Lucretius Agricola the
>> power to act on my behalf, with full praetorian imperium, in matters
>> concerning the Tabularium.
>
> This is the part of the edict that initially caught my attention and
> the part that has caused me concern. I was not aware that a
> magistrate can "give" imperium to anyone, much less "full imperium"
> to their scribae.

You are correct. Imperium can only be given by the Comitia Curiata,
and only to such magistrates as the Constitution specifies. Imperium
can not be delegated, though auctoritas can.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve Cato,

Thank you. This clears matters up completely.

Vale,

-- Marinus

Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> writes:

> In my haste and attempt to make it
> clear that they have absolute authority I used the term "imperium",
> and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
> rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:

Salve Consul,

The fact remains you can't appoint scribes. You most certainly can't
appoint scribes for another magistrate. Your edict is flawed. Fix
it, or not, as you prefer. Spare me your bluster.

-- Marinus


Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> writes:

>
> Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
>
> The wiki management system is a necessary function of Nova Roma. It is
> well within my Imperium to issue edicts that continues an ongoing
> function of the state. The Magister Aranearius may at anytime replace
> any and all of the WikiMagisters (Scribae) per my edict.
>
> The constitution states that a Consul is allowed
>
> "To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
> which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts being
> binding upon themselves as well as others);" ( Article IV section A
> paragraph 2 clause b )
>
> My edict does just that. It "advances the mission and function of
> Nova Roma". Nothing more and nothing less. In hindsight it may have
> been better, for appearances, to have issued it jointly with the
> Magister Aranearius but not having done so does not in any way lessen
> its validly, legality, constitutionality or effect.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Salvete onmes,

On 25 July, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus appointed me Legatus
Consularis, "his personal representative within the province of
California." This report recounts my observations for the month of August.

On the day of my appointment I began a campaign to enlist people to
the California Romana Yahoo group at an accelerated rate. From the
group's inception on 8 March up to 25 July, the group had grown from
an initial 9 members to 26, a rate of about one new member per
week. From 25 July to 31 August, the group membership rose from 26
to 67, a rate of one per day (see
<http://www.angelfire.com/empire/martiana/provincia/members.gif>). It
is thought that approximately half of the members have some
affiliation, either past or present, with Nova Roma. Since I do not
have access to the citizenship list for the province, I do not know
with certainty what their present status is. I have exhausted my
reservoir of knowledge of Nova Roma citizens and former citizens
in the province; therefore, in the absence of receiving further
intelligence, the incorporation of citizens and former citizens in
the online group will level off. Recruitment efforts will continue
among other groups dedicated to Roman culture; however, it would be
preferable to continue increasing our numbers from within Nova Roma
as well, lest the organizational culture of the online group begin to
evolve in a direction that deviates significantly from Nova
Roma. Naturally, I invite all Nova Roma citizens in our great
province to join the California Romana group and to participate in
building romanitas. It is because of this concern regarding
organizational culture that I gave first priority to recruiting
citizens and former citizens, so that the early organizational
culture of the online group would be predominately that of Nova
Roma. I deliberately managed the growth of the group at the rate of
one member per day, preferring steady growth to sudden shocks to the
system that might result from inviting hundreds of people in the span
of a few days. Now that the list I had compiled of NR-associated
people is exhausted, reaching out to members of other groups, such as
reenactment organizations, will occur at a slower pace so as not to
shock our group's organizational culture.

Commensurate with the growth of the online group has been the growth
in message traffic. The August traffic broke the previous record set
a month earlier (see
<http://www.angelfire.com/empire/martiana/provincia/traffic06-07.gif>).
Indeed, current monthly traffic now rivals the annual traffic on the
previous California Nova Roma Yahoo group during the "golden age" of
2000-2001 (see
<http://www.angelfire.com/empire/martiana/provincia/traffic00-07.gif>).
By this measure, romanitas in California has never been stronger.

Marcus Artorius Silvanus, a Nova Roma citizen, has begun efforts to
form a new legion, tentatively designated Legio II Britannica. This
will bring California's military strength up to four legions and
provide geographic balance, with two legions in the north as well as
in the south. One of the best stimuli for interest and growth is a
nearby rivalry, so the establishment of a second legion in the north
may also benefit the more-established Legio X Fretensis. Legio II
Britannica "will cover all aspects of life in Britain during the 4th
through 6th centuries CE, including both military and civilian
portrayals." In contrast, "Legio X Fretensis prefers to focus on
what many call the 'Classical Age' of the Roman Empire ~ 1st Century
BC and 1st Century AD." Thus, the two legions will compliment each
other by concentrating on different historical periods.

Artorius has responded enthusiastically to my suggestion of
establishing an annual event in the San Francisco Bay Area of similar
scope to legion participation in Old Fort MacArthur Days in the Los
Angeles area, and he has agreed to undertake this project.

As new members have joined the online group, several have asked, "Are
there any Romans in my area?" This points up the need to augment the
online group with more face-to-face contact. In the population
centers, this is not a difficult problem to solve, but it is an
intractable one in outlying areas. Here is a potential value of the
legions: they are mobile. Thus, they offer the possibility to
Romans in remote areas that romanitas may come to a town near them
for an event. A key to building romanitas in California Provincia
may be the development of an integrated strategy employing mobile and
static assets that provides continuity between the urban and rural areas.

Finally, in addition to Autorius, my thanks to Galerius and to
Quintus Fabius Maximus for their counsel and assistance, and it is my
opinion that Fabius should be restored as governor of California.

Optime valete,
M. Martianius Gangalius
Legatus Consularis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus

�Spare me your bluster�

My comments were reasonable, factual and polite. Loud or arrogant they were
not.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Reposting of EDICTUM CONSULARE VII-MMDCCLX A.U.C
>Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 10:50:36 -0400
>
>Salve Consul,
>
>The fact remains you can't appoint scribes. You most certainly can't
>appoint scribes for another magistrate. Your edict is flawed. Fix
>it, or not, as you prefer. Spare me your bluster.
>
>-- Marinus
>
>
>Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> writes:
>
> >
> > Salve Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> >
> > The wiki management system is a necessary function of Nova Roma. It is
> > well within my Imperium to issue edicts that continues an ongoing
> > function of the state. The Magister Aranearius may at anytime replace
> > any and all of the WikiMagisters (Scribae) per my edict.
> >
> > The constitution states that a Consul is allowed
> >
> > "To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
> > which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma (such edicts being
> > binding upon themselves as well as others);" ( Article IV section A
> > paragraph 2 clause b )
> >
> > My edict does just that. It "advances the mission and function of
> > Nova Roma". Nothing more and nothing less. In hindsight it may have
> > been better, for appearances, to have issued it jointly with the
> > Magister Aranearius but not having done so does not in any way lessen
> > its validly, legality, constitutionality or effect.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Artoria Catoni sal.

Thank you, Praetor. My concerns about your edict no longer exist, and I hope your scribae, along with those of Praetrix Scholasita, can work together to bring the tabularium up to date.

For the record, I did not believe you intended to abuse your powers--I assumed you wanted to add weight to your backing of your scribae. My objection was to the way you went about it.

Vale optime,
Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Caesoni Fabio Buteoni Quintiliano M. Martiano Lupo
> quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus s.p.d.
>
>
> Salve M. Martianius Lupus et salvete Omnes!
>
> As Praeceptrix A. Tullia Scholastica already have stated the Academia
> server is situated in my home and it is thunderstorm season here in
> the north of Scandinavia. To protect the server and my own computers
> I have had to shut it down over and over again the last three or four
> days.
>
> ATS: And there are other issues with this above and beyond the server
> itself. We have altered portions of the introductory course, converting two
> short tests into review assignments which may be taken under test conditions
> at the student¹s option. That, and some other factors, have required moving
> the lessons from the week originally specified to an earlier time and deleting
> the original one. Moreover, my technical assistant is editing and uploading
> sound files (as I cannot, due to net connection methodology, inter alia) which
> I am making available to current students so that they can hear the Latin
> paradigms, and understand them better from the audio as well as visual aspect.
> He has completed eight of the ten he has in hand, and is presumably editing
> the others. I have another batch prepared for sending, some of which are
> intended for intermediate Latin, but at present am simply waiting for the
> current students to have access to the first semester recordings. With luck,
> the rest will be copied to their new class site. I would also like to revise
> the paradigm tables in the lessons, which are not as neat as I would like, but
> that should not bar enrollment. However, as the honorable consularis
> Quintilianus has pointed out, when the server is shut down, that means that
> not only cannot students register or access the site, it means that the
> teachers cannot access it either, and thus cannot update homework assignments
> or lessons, nor can my assistant upload sound files. The time difference
> between us and Sweden also is a factor, for perhaps when the storms have
> passed, the magistra and her assistant are asleep...one time zone apart.
>
> Now it is up and going, please try it again. I am very sorry for any
> inconvenience.
>
> ATS: We certainly have no control over the weather! Any attempts at that
> seem to have failed...one does have to be a bit patient about this, and
> remember that the lessons will not begin until class starts in any case. If
> you want a head start, Lupe, the introduction to the Wheelock textbook and the
> vocabularies (sound files for the latter, one word at a time) are available
> from the textbook¹s own website,
> <http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/1/index.html> which should provide
> the vocabulary for the first lesson and links to the introduction and other
> materials.
>
> It¹s my understanding that Rudimenta is not required for enrollment in
> Grammatica Latina I; it is a book course supervised by A. Gratius Avitus, our
> senior, world-famous Latinist, who is away at least until September 3rd. It
> would not, however, hurt to take it eventually.
>
>> >M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>> >
>> >Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to have
>> >problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
>> >Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
>> >weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
>> >enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
>> >
>> >I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
>> >the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that I've
>> >been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
>> >what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
>> >now?
>> >
>> >Optime vale!
>
>
> Vale, et valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus!

Thank you for your reply. I had seen the Praeceptrix's earlier reply
and was aware of the weather issues, and because of that I had been
trying during various times of the day. Most likely with me being
half-a-world away, my time online has not been in sync with the server.
I will keep trying, especially as the time for start of class draws
closer.

Also, Rector C. Curius Saturninus wrote to me privately to explain that
courses remain 'unenrollable' while "previous students have not
completed" the course yet or if the teacher is making changes to the
course. He suggested that I wait until about one before start of class
to try enrolling.

Gratias tibi ago.

Vale

Lupus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
<christer.edling@...> wrote:

>
> Salve M. Martianius Lupus et salvete Omnes!
>
> As Praeceptrix A. Tullia Scholastica already have stated the Academia
> server is situated in my home and it is thunderstorm season here in
> the north of Scandinavia. To protect the server and my own computers
> I have had to shut it down over and over again the last three or four
> days.
>
> Now it is up and going, please try it again. I am very sorry for any
> inconvenience.
>
> >M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
> >
> >Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to

have

> >problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
> >Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
> >weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is

not

> >enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
> >
> >I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina

and

> >the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that

I've

> >been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
> >what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to

do

> >now?
> >
> >Optime vale!
>
> --
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Senator, Censorius et Consularis
> Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
> Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
> Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
> Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
> Civis Romanus sum
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
>

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Martianio Lupo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>
> Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to have
> problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
> Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
> weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
> enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
>
> ATS: It¹s not really a problem per se...
>
> I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
> the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that I've
> been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
> what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
> now?
>
> ATS: As the honorable consularis Quintilianus mentioned, try in about a
> week. Part of the reason why enrollment is not allowed at present is because
> the courses ran far overtime due to circumstances beyond anyone¹s control, and
> the intermediate course just finished a couple of weeks ago. This made it
> impossible to alter the course websites as students were still taking the
> courses, so the updates have had to wait. As noted earlier, we have just
> prepared sound files which are being added to the site, so we have to leave
> materials available to the existing students which should be hidden from new
> ones...and we cannot have it both ways. Give it a while so that the remaining
> first-semester sound files can be put up, and the existing students and
> auditors hear them; after a decent interval, I shall hide the materials, and
> inform Saturninus that he may open enrollment.
>
> Rudimenta Latina is a book course, that is, one purchases and reads a
> book, and is tested on the content at certain intervals; there are no lessons,
> so enrollment is possible at any time. Likewise the field courses, such as
> the one in which I am enrolled, Latinitas Viva, do not have fixed lessons, but
> depend on the schedule of various Latin seminars in which one speaks Latin
> constantly for a week or two under the supervision of a professor or two or
> three; enrollment is therefore possible at any time, though the conventicula
> are annual events. I¹m not sure about the new citizen course, which is not
> given in our faculty (facultas litterarum)...and I seem to have passed beyond
> any need for it... ;-)
>
> Optime vale!
>
> Et tu, et vos!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis
>> > S.P.D.
>> >
>> > In fact, it¹s getting late for the introductory Wheelock course to
> order
>> > their texts...you MUST have the textbook no later than the end of the
> first
>> > week of class, which seems to be the week of September 17th. Those who
> do
>> > not have the text will not be able to do the homework, and will be
> removed
>> > from the list.
>
> /////// rest of message Snipped ///////
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque s.p.d.

> > A. Tullia Scholastica Caesoni Fabio Buteoni Quintiliano M. Martiano

Lupo

> > quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus s.p.d.
> >
> > Salve M. Martianius Lupus et salvete Omnes!
> >
> > As Praeceptrix A. Tullia Scholastica already have stated the

Academia

> > server is situated in my home and it is thunderstorm season here in
> > the north of Scandinavia. To protect the server and my own computers
> > I have had to shut it down over and over again the last three or

four

> > days.
> >
> > ATS: And there are other issues with this above and beyond the

server

> > itself. We have altered portions of the introductory course,

converting two

> > short tests into review assignments which may be taken under test

conditions

> > at the student¹s option. That, and some other factors, have

required moving

> > the lessons from the week originally specified to an earlier time

and deleting

> > the original one. Moreover, my technical assistant is editing and

uploading

> > sound files (as I cannot, due to net connection methodology, inter

alia) which

> > I am making available to current students so that they can hear the

Latin

> > paradigms, and understand them better from the audio as well as

visual aspect.

> > He has completed eight of the ten he has in hand, and is presumably

editing

> > the others. I have another batch prepared for sending, some of which

are

> > intended for intermediate Latin, but at present am simply waiting

for the

> > current students to have access to the first semester recordings.

With luck,

> > the rest will be copied to their new class site. I would also like

to revise

> > the paradigm tables in the lessons, which are not as neat as I would

like, but

> > that should not bar enrollment. However, as the honorable consularis
> > Quintilianus has pointed out, when the server is shut down, that

means that

> > not only cannot students register or access the site, it means that

the

> > teachers cannot access it either, and thus cannot update homework

assignments

> > or lessons, nor can my assistant upload sound files. The time

difference

> > between us and Sweden also is a factor, for perhaps when the storms

have

> > passed, the magistra and her assistant are asleep...one time zone

apart.

MML: Thank you, Praeceptrix Scholastica for such a detailed
explanation. When Rector C. Curius Saturninus wrote to me privately
explaining that a course would remain 'unenrollable' while a teacher is
making changes to the course, I had no idea there was so much work to be
completed. I must learn to display more patience, even in the face of
my eagerness.

> > Now it is up and going, please try it again. I am very sorry for any
> > inconvenience.
> >
> > ATS: We certainly have no control over the weather! Any attempts at

that

> > seem to have failed...one does have to be a bit patient about this,

and

> > remember that the lessons will not begin until class starts in any

case. If

> > you want a head start, Lupe, the introduction to the Wheelock

textbook and the

> > vocabularies (sound files for the latter, one word at a time) are

available

> > from the textbook¹s own website,
> > <http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/1/index.html

<http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/1/index.html> > which should
provide

> > the vocabulary for the first lesson and links to the introduction

and other

> > materials.
> >
> > It¹s my understanding that Rudimenta is not required for

enrollment in

> > Grammatica Latina I; it is a book course supervised by A. Gratius

Avitus, our

> > senior, world-famous Latinist, who is away at least until September

3rd. It

> > would not, however, hurt to take it eventually.

MML: Yes, this is something I can do. I did read the Introduction
once; but that was done rather quickly, some months back (before finding
Nova Roma and Academia Thules) when I was first thinking about studying
Latin on my own. Reading it a second time, with a "studying" mindset
will be better. I'll also spend some time reviewing the sound files on
the Wheelock website. Gratias tibi ago.

> >> >M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> >Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue

to have

> >> >problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2)

Grammatica

> >> >Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly

two

> >> >weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is

not

> >> >enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might

be?

> >> >
> >> >I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina

and

> >> >the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that

I've

> >> >been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as

to

> >> >what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what

to do

> >> >now?
> >> >
> >> >Optime vale!
> >
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

2007



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
I had not been able to log into the school site and was able to do it to day. So it is open for anyone wanting to enroll.

The only class I could not get was "What is Nova Roma"
Vale,
Lucius Curtius Paullus

"A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Martianio Lupo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S P.D.
>
>
>
> M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>
> Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue to have
> problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
> Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
> weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
> enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
>
> ATS: It¹s not really a problem per se...
>
> I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
> the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that I've
> been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
> what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
> now?
>
> ATS: As the honorable consularis Quintilianus mentioned, try in about a
> week. Part of the reason why enrollment is not allowed at present is because
> the courses ran far overtime due to circumstances beyond anyone¹s control, and
> the intermediate course just finished a couple of weeks ago. This made it
> impossible to alter the course websites as students were still taking the
> courses, so the updates have had to wait. As noted earlier, we have just
> prepared sound files which are being added to the site, so we have to leave
> materials available to the existing students which should be hidden from new
> ones...and we cannot have it both ways. Give it a while so that the remaining
> first-semester sound files can be put up, and the existing students and
> auditors hear them; after a decent interval, I shall hide the materials, and
> inform Saturninus that he may open enrollment.
>
> Rudimenta Latina is a book course, that is, one purchases and reads a
> book, and is tested on the content at certain intervals; there are no lessons,
> so enrollment is possible at any time. Likewise the field courses, such as
> the one in which I am enrolled, Latinitas Viva, do not have fixed lessons, but
> depend on the schedule of various Latin seminars in which one speaks Latin
> constantly for a week or two under the supervision of a professor or two or
> three; enrollment is therefore possible at any time, though the conventicula
> are annual events. I¹m not sure about the new citizen course, which is not
> given in our faculty (facultas litterarum)...and I seem to have passed beyond
> any need for it... ;-)
>
> Optime vale!
>
> Et tu, et vos!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis
>> > S.P.D.
>> >
>> > In fact, it¹s getting late for the introductory Wheelock course to
> order
>> > their texts...you MUST have the textbook no later than the end of the
> first
>> > week of class, which seems to be the week of September 17th. Those who
> do
>> > not have the text will not be able to do the homework, and will be
> removed
>> > from the list.
>
> /////// rest of message Snipped ///////
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
> Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
>
> In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
> invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I should
> reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather than "imperium".
> It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act fully
> and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they speak
> directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make it
> clear that they have absolute authority I used the term "imperium",
> and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
> rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
>
> ATS: Latin fix: Catonis, amice. Catoni is dative; we
> need the genitive here.
>
>
> Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
> omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict, I
> appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
> privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
>
> I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
> Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my behalf,
> with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
>
> Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur. [This
> edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
>
>
> ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we add a little
> something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is plural. Did I
> miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also works: quidquam/quicquam ius
> iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are not required to swear any [sworn]
> oath. Latin has no problem with repeating words from the same root in close
> proximity...
>
> Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
> 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
>
> [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
> after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007), during
> the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Praetor
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
>
> ATS: Oh, dear! Hope you feel better. In recent years, dentists have had
> a wonderful substance called novocain available...I recommend it, though it
> will not cure the pain in the wallet from such dental adventures.
>
> This edictum is MUCH better, in any case. I hope we can work together
> with your newly-designated scribae, though the harsh and unwarranted words of
> one may make that rather difficult. I did not want to interfere with your
> right to nominate your own scribae, and did not therefore veto the earlier
> edictum, but handing imperium to scribae is a definite no-no which gave me and
> others very considerable pause, especially when closely followed by events
> which made it impossible for members of my cohors to do their work. Let us
> hope that holy wisdom will now prevail, and communication improve so that we
> can have a better, clean, neat, sparkling, and orderly Tabularium on the
> vicipaedia. This is an enormous task, and we do need help as Sabinus can do
> only so much, but cooperation rather than temper tantrums is what is needed.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Martianio Lupo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis s.p.d.
>
>
>
> M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque s.p.d.
>
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Caesoni Fabio Buteoni Quintiliano M. Martiano
> Lupo
>>> > > quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque omnibus s.p.d.
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve M. Martianius Lupus et salvete Omnes!
>>> > >
>>> > > As Praeceptrix A. Tullia Scholastica already have stated the
> Academia
>>> > > server is situated in my home and it is thunderstorm season here in
>>> > > the north of Scandinavia. To protect the server and my own computers
>>> > > I have had to shut it down over and over again the last three or
> four
>>> > > days.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: And there are other issues with this above and beyond the
> server
>>> > > itself. We have altered portions of the introductory course,
> converting two
>>> > > short tests into review assignments which may be taken under test
> conditions
>>> > > at the student¹s option. That, and some other factors, have
> required moving
>>> > > the lessons from the week originally specified to an earlier time
> and deleting
>>> > > the original one. Moreover, my technical assistant is editing and
> uploading
>>> > > sound files (as I cannot, due to net connection methodology, inter
> alia) which
>>> > > I am making available to current students so that they can hear the
> Latin
>>> > > paradigms, and understand them better from the audio as well as
> visual aspect.
>>> > > He has completed eight of the ten he has in hand, and is presumably
> editing
>>> > > the others. I have another batch prepared for sending, some of which
> are
>>> > > intended for intermediate Latin, but at present am simply waiting
> for the
>>> > > current students to have access to the first semester recordings.
> With luck,
>>> > > the rest will be copied to their new class site. I would also like
> to revise
>>> > > the paradigm tables in the lessons, which are not as neat as I would
> like, but
>>> > > that should not bar enrollment. However, as the honorable consularis
>>> > > Quintilianus has pointed out, when the server is shut down, that
> means that
>>> > > not only cannot students register or access the site, it means that
> the
>>> > > teachers cannot access it either, and thus cannot update homework
> assignments
>>> > > or lessons, nor can my assistant upload sound files. The time
> difference
>>> > > between us and Sweden also is a factor, for perhaps when the storms
> have
>>> > > passed, the magistra and her assistant are asleep...one time zone
> apart.
>
> MML: Thank you, Praeceptrix Scholastica for such a detailed
> explanation.
>
> ATS2: You are quite welcome...and are not alone in wishing to enroll in
> this course amid these difficulties.
>
>
> When Rector C. Curius Saturninus wrote to me privately
> explaining that a course would remain 'unenrollable' while a teacher is
> making changes to the course, I had no idea there was so much work to be
> completed.
>
> ATS2: That there is. The CMS system was brought online only a few days
> before my courses (the first to start) were to begin, and we had no time for
> exotika such as sound files. I had to entrust lesson uploading to Rector
> Saturninus at first until I learned how to do this (and yes, I *did* learn to
> do it!), and had to learn how to get the lessons into a format the system
> would accept. Previously we had used e-mail, but we then had to convert
> everything, a procedure which took many hours per lesson, especially when lots
> of paradigm tables were involved. We also had severe weather problems here
> resulting in extended power outages, and a number of other technical
> difficulties, some of which were the delayed result of said meteorological
> event. For that and other reasons, the classes ran far overtime, and would
> have done so even if student compliance with deadlines had been better (hint,
> hint: it WILL be better next year...or else!).
>
> Incidentally, the Sermo Latinus classes are not likely to be enrollable at
> this time, either, for Avitus has been away, and has not marked his final
> exams...but he has a longer lead time. I do recommend his classes for those
> who have enough competency in Latin and want to become fluent in speaking
> and/or writing it. Strictly speaking, these are also introductory level, but
> the pace is very brisk, and, as he says, it is better to have some background
> first. We had an entrance exam when I took this course...
>
>
>
> I must learn to display more patience, even in the face of
> my eagerness.
>
> ATS: Patience is a virtue...in the meantime, there is always the Wheelock
> website. This textbook is so common that it is a business unto itself.
>
>>> > > Now it is up and going, please try it again. I am very sorry for any
>>> > > inconvenience.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: We certainly have no control over the weather! Any attempts at
> that
>>> > > seem to have failed...one does have to be a bit patient about this,
> and
>>> > > remember that the lessons will not begin until class starts in any
> case. If
>>> > > you want a head start, Lupe, the introduction to the Wheelock
> textbook and the
>>> > > vocabularies (sound files for the latter, one word at a time) are
> available
>>> > > from the textbook¹s own website,
>>> > > <http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/1/index.html
> <http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/1/index.html> > which should
> provide
>>> > > the vocabulary for the first lesson and links to the introduction
> and other
>>> > > materials.
>>> > >
>>> > > It¹s my understanding that Rudimenta is not required for
> enrollment in
>>> > > Grammatica Latina I; it is a book course supervised by A. Gratius
> Avitus, our
>>> > > senior, world-famous Latinist, who is away at least until September
> 3rd. It
>>> > > would not, however, hurt to take it eventually.
>
> MML: Yes, this is something I can do. I did read the Introduction
> once; but that was done rather quickly, some months back (before finding
> Nova Roma and Academia Thules) when I was first thinking about studying
> Latin on my own. Reading it a second time, with a "studying" mindset
> will be better. I'll also spend some time reviewing the sound files on
> the Wheelock website. Gratias tibi ago.
>
> ATS2: The Wheelock sound files are not perfect, sounding a bit
> artificial, but especially in the absence of anything else, they are quite
> helpful. Even Avitus does not have absolutely perfect pronunciation, but his
> is excellent, and mine is decent enough... ;-) I spent ten days this June
> hearing and speaking nothing but Latin, and it seems that most understood
> me...
>
> Flocci est.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>> > >> >M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> >Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue
> to have
>>>>> > >> >problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2)
> Grammatica
>>>>> > >> >Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly
> two
>>>>> > >> >weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is
> not
>>>>> > >> >enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might
> be?
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> >I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina
> and
>>>>> > >> >the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that
> I've
>>>>> > >> >been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as
> to
>>>>> > >> >what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what
> to do
>>>>> > >> >now?
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> >Optime vale!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

P. Memmius Albucius Praetoribus s.d.


On "No oath shall be required" :

>>Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur

> ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we add a

little something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is
plural. Did I miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also
works: quidquam/quicquam ius iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are
not required to swear any [sworn] oath. Latin has no problem with
repeating words from the same root in close proximity...

Yes, you are right Tullia. In fact, there may exist roughly a dozen
way to translate this short sentence. The variable is here "shall be
required".

In such sentences, I would not personally use "poscere" because when
I "posco", this is precisely because I think that this is my right
*but* and/or am not sure that I will be answered positively.
Here, in an edictum situation, things are different because if the
civis would not accept, she/he could not be in the office.

Then, several verbs may be used. Personally, in such edicts, I tend
to use what seems to be the more simple and (so) one of the
most 'latin' solutions : "Ius iurandum non opus est" = "an oath is
not necessary". It thus allows you not to use a verb, which should
be 'iurare', as Tullia as well reminded it.

Just a contribution.

Valete Praetoribus,


P. Memmius Albucius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae

voluntatis S.P.D.

> >
> >
> > Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
> > Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
> >
> > In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
> > invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I

should

> > reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather

than "imperium".

> > It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act

fully

> > and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they

speak

> > directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make

it

> > clear that they have absolute authority I used the

term "imperium",

> > and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
> > rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:
> >
> >

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> >
> > EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
> >
> > ATS: Latin fix: Catonis, amice. Catoni is

dative; we

> > need the genitive here.
> >
> >
> > Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
> > omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict,

I

> > appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
> > privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
> >
> > I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
> > Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my

behalf,

> > with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
> >
> > Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur.

[This

> > edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
> >
> >
> > ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we

add a little

> > something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is

plural. Did I

> > miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also works:

quidquam/quicquam ius

> > iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are not required to swear any

[sworn]

> > oath. Latin has no problem with repeating words from the same

root in close

> > proximity...
> >
> > Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
> > 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
> >
> > [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
> > after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007),

during

> > the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > Praetor
> >
> >

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
> >
> > ATS: Oh, dear! Hope you feel better. In recent years,

dentists have had

> > a wonderful substance called novocain available...I recommend it,

though it

> > will not cure the pain in the wallet from such dental adventures.
> >
> > This edictum is MUCH better, in any case. I hope we can work

together

> > with your newly-designated scribae, though the harsh and

unwarranted words of

> > one may make that rather difficult. I did not want to interfere

with your

> > right to nominate your own scribae, and did not therefore veto

the earlier

> > edictum, but handing imperium to scribae is a definite no-no

which gave me and

> > others very considerable pause, especially when closely followed

by events

> > which made it impossible for members of my cohors to do their

work. Let us

> > hope that holy wisdom will now prevail, and communication improve

so that we

> > can have a better, clean, neat, sparkling, and orderly Tabularium

on the

> > vicipaedia. This is an enormous task, and we do need help as

Sabinus can do

> > only so much, but cooperation rather than temper tantrums is what

is needed.

> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve,
I wanted to say some thing about NRWiki and the "staff of NRWiki".
First let me say. I barley know how to put something on my computor,
games and what nots. I donot know how to speach latin or a computor
language. Heck I hardly Speak my native tongue (English as you maybe
able to tell by the misspelt words).
All this to say. I have been helped alot by the NRWiki Folks. when I
have had a question or a desire to learn about the site, they have
been very helpful. I do not speak cyber-talk at all. They explain
things to me straight out. If I have a question They answers it and
help me find the info out by pointing out where to look, and most
times it is laid out step by step for me.
Believe me, they are very forgiving when I screw up. Like saving one
page 25 X when all I needed was to save it once.

These folk are doing a good service For Nova Roma. There has been
not a single time where I did not get a good answer and a good
contact with these folks. Even when I did not do some thing right,
or I really could not do what I wanted.

I have no part of this back and forth on this issue between people.
I just want to stat for the Record what I have experianced.

People helping me, when I am just a Civ. People being kind and
helping me when I have asked for help. People going out of their way
to go the extra mile for me. People giving me an answer when they
already gave me you, but helping me to understand how to do it in
the proper way. Nova Romans being kind and freindly to some one who
does not really understand what {{+++ This means+++}}} in programing
or in Wikki.
To the Staff of NRWiki, all of the Staff and Volunters....Thank You.

Vale,
Lucius Curtius Paullus

Salvete,

> WTF is cybernautese? Rather what IS cybernautese? Do you mean technical
> speech?

> But I am capable
> of learning when I try. I have read several times your term

"cybernautese"

> and "cybernaut" and I don't find it cute or innovative.

I agree.

This term, "cybernautese," used by ATS, I personally find extremely
offensive, as it is obviously used in a separatory and discriminating
manner to describe, in condescending terms, the technical language
used in the Wiki discussion board. It belittles me, my profession,
and all those who happen to use their chosen mode of technical jargon
to discuss effectively and efficiently the inner workings of the Wiki
and the website.

The Wiki board IS for the express purpose of those maintaining it.
Would you prefer that we set up a Wiki-Content board vs. a
Wiki-Maintenance (Internals) board?

We need to be able to talk like this: "Folks, we're gonna shift to
darcs to work on small sub projects and keep the main rep in svn for
pushing out the new mods, and oh! are we gonna use dbix inside-out
classing, or cdbi style for the new indexing modules?"

Do you find that "cybernaughty?" *I feel like Chris Rock right now
over that term* Then you might want to either LEARN about computers
and invest 15 to 20 years in it (my profession), OR maybe split off
discussions on content from format from implementation.

Please stop using the cyberN-word.

Valete,
Q. Valerius Callidus

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
kindly don't drag me into this argument as a stalking horse.
My relationship with the Wikimasters: Octavius, Agricola, Cordus,
Callidus, has always been respectful & cordial. They have helped me
all along the way & I knew nothing about technical matters. I'm very
grateful for their time, patience and skill in teaching me.
M. Hortensia Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast

http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/ . The address for RSS
syndication is http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/podcast.xml .

> > The NRWiki list is sufficient. WHY IS IT SO HARD for you,

Scholastica, and

> > others to use that list? Is it because M. Hortensia Maior is on

that list?

> >
> >
> > ATS: No, though certain elements of her behavior make it

unwise for anyone

> > she dislikes to post to such a list. It also happens that much

of the

> > discussion there is in cybernautese,

NRWiki message archives are now set to "public". Posting is still
restricted to members and the archives may return to "members" status
in the future.

For now, judge for yourselves.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/NRWiki/messages

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "os390account" <Velaki@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> > WTF is cybernautese? Rather what IS cybernautese? Do you mean
technical
> > speech?
>
> > But I am capable
> > of learning when I try. I have read several times your term
> "cybernautese"
> > and "cybernaut" and I don't find it cute or innovative.
>
> I agree.
>
> This term, "cybernautese," used by ATS, I personally find extremely
> offensive, as it is obviously used in a separatory and discriminating
> manner to describe, in condescending terms, the technical language
> used in the Wiki discussion board. It belittles me, my profession,
> and all those who happen to use their chosen mode of technical jargon
> to discuss effectively and efficiently the inner workings of the Wiki
> and the website.
>
> The Wiki board IS for the express purpose of those maintaining it.
> Would you prefer that we set up a Wiki-Content board vs. a
> Wiki-Maintenance (Internals) board?
>
> We need to be able to talk like this: "Folks, we're gonna shift to
> darcs to work on small sub projects and keep the main rep in svn for
> pushing out the new mods, and oh! are we gonna use dbix inside-out
> classing, or cdbi style for the new indexing modules?"
>
> Do you find that "cybernaughty?" *I feel like Chris Rock right now
> over that term* Then you might want to either LEARN about computers
> and invest 15 to 20 years in it (my profession), OR maybe split off
> discussions on content from format from implementation.
>
> Please stop using the cyberN-word.
>
> Valete,
> Q. Valerius Callidus
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Hortensiae salutem dicit

You are correct. It was wrong of my to drag you into this and for that I
apologize.

Vale:

Modianus

On 9/2/07, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> kindly don't drag me into this argument as a stalking horse.
> My relationship with the Wikimasters: Octavius, Agricola, Cordus,
> Callidus, has always been respectful & cordial. They have helped me
> all along the way & I knew nothing about technical matters. I'm very
> grateful for their time, patience and skill in teaching me.
> M. Hortensia Maior
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
>
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/ . The address for RSS
> syndication is http://www.insulaumbra.com/voxromana/podcast.xml .
>
> > > The NRWiki list is sufficient. WHY IS IT SO HARD for you,
> Scholastica, and
> > > others to use that list? Is it because M. Hortensia Maior is on
> that list?
> > >
> > >
> > > ATS: No, though certain elements of her behavior make it
> unwise for anyone
> > > she dislikes to post to such a list. It also happens that much
> of the
> > > discussion there is in cybernautese,
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nones Septembris; haec dies
comitialis est.

"Antiochus surnamed Epiphanes gained the name of Epimanes by his
conduct. Escaping from his attendants at court, he would often be seen
wandering about in all parts of the city with one or two companions.
He was chiefly found at the silversmiths' and goldsmiths' workshops,
holding forth at length and discussing technical matters with the
moulders and other craftsmen. He used also to condescend to converse
with any common people he met, and used to drink in the company of the
meanest foreign visitors to Antioch. Whenever he heard that any of the
young men were at an entertainment, he would come in quite
unceremoniously with a fife and a procession of musicians, so that
most of the guests got up and left in astonishment. He would
frequently put off his royal robes, and, assuming a white toga, go
round the market-place like a candidate, and, taking some by the hand
and embracing others, would beg them to give him their vote, sometimes
for the office of aedile and sometimes for that of tribune. Upon
being elected, he would sit upon the ivory curule chair, as the Roman
custom is, listening to the lawsuits tried there, and pronouncing
judgement with great pains and display of interest. In consequence
all respectable men were entirely puzzled about him, some looking upon
him as a plain simple man and others as a madman. His conduct too was
very similar as regards the presents he made. To some people he used
to give gazelles' knucklebones, to others dates, and to others money.
Occasionally he used to address people he had never seen before when
he met them, and make them the most unexpected kind of presents. But
in the sacrifices he furnished to cities and in the honours he paid to
the gods he far surpassed all his predecessors, as we can tell from
the temple of Olympian Zeus at Athens and the statues round the altar
at Delos. He also used to bathe in the public baths, when they were
full of common people, having jars of the most precious ointments
brought in for him; and on one occasion when some one said to him,
'How lucky you are, you kings, to use such scents and smell so sweet!'
he answered nothing at the time, but next day, when the man was having
his bath, he came in after him and had a huge jar of most precious
ointment called stacte poured over his head, so that all the bathers
jumped up and rolled themselves in it, and by slipping in it created
great amusement, as did the king himself." Polybius, "Roman Histories"
XXVI.I.1-14

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Polybius

M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus SPD

The Praetor Gaius Equitius Cato has called the Senate to discuss and vote the following AGENDA on pridie Nones Septembris (Sept. 2007, 4th).

AGENDA

"The Senatus Consultum de Ratione Senatus is amended as follows:

B. Any Senator who is unable to be present during the debate phase of a Senate session may give their proxy to another voting member of the Senate. This proxy will consist of an open letter to the Senate list that states the reason for the absence and the name of the Senator to whom the proxy is given. The proxy will last one Senate session unless specifically noted to last for a longer period of time."

The contio will begin at 12.00h Rome time on prid. Non. Sept. (Sept. 2007, 4th) and conclude at 12.00h Rome time on a.d. VIII Id. Sept.(Sept. 2007, 7th).; voting will then begin, concluding at 12.00h Rome time a.d. IV Id. Sept (Sept. 2007, 10th).

Valete

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius Praetoribus s.d.
>
> On "No oath shall be required" :
>
>>> >>Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur
>
>> > ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we add a
> little something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is
> plural. Did I miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also
> works: quidquam/quicquam ius iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are
> not required to swear any [sworn] oath. Latin has no problem with
> repeating words from the same root in close proximity...
>
> Yes, you are right Tullia. In fact, there may exist roughly a dozen
> way to translate this short sentence. The variable is here "shall be
> required".
>
> In such sentences, I would not personally use "poscere" because when
> I "posco", this is precisely because I think that this is my right
> *but* and/or am not sure that I will be answered positively.
> Here, in an edictum situation, things are different because if the
> civis would not accept, she/he could not be in the office.
>
> ATS2: My primary English-Latin dictionary gives postulo, exigo, and posco
> among the choices for translating the English word demand; perhaps one of the
> other two might please you better. However, the OLD does not seem to indicate
> that poscere is associated with one¹s rights, though it does carry the notion
> of insistence or authority.
>
> Then, several verbs may be used. Personally, in such edicts, I tend
> to use what seems to be the more simple and (so) one of the
> most 'latin' solutions : "Ius iurandum non opus est" = "an oath is
> not necessary". It thus allows you not to use a verb, which should
> be 'iurare', as Tullia as well reminded it.
>
> ATS2: Though the construction with this is ablative of the thing and
> dative of the person, which becomes more complex: Eis nullo iure iurando opus
> est. There, I think, we can safely skip the infinitive, iurare.
>
> Just a contribution.
>
> ATS2: Gratias!
>
> Valete Praetoribus,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio Albucio Gn.
>>> > > Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
>>> > >
>>> > > In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
>>> > > invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I
> should
>>> > > reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather
> than "imperium".
>>> > > It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act
> fully
>>> > > and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they
> speak
>>> > > directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make
> it
>>> > > clear that they have absolute authority I used the
> term "imperium",
>>> > > and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I hereby
>>> > > rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it thusly:
>>> > >
>>> > >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> > >
>>> > > EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Latin fix: Catonis, amice. Catoni is
> dative; we
>>> > > need the genitive here.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis privilegiisque
>>> > > omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this edict,
> I
>>> > > appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
>>> > > privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
>>> > >
>>> > > I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A. Apollonius
>>> > > Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my
> behalf,
>>> > > with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
>>> > >
>>> > > Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur.
> [This
>>> > > edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we
> add a little
>>> > > something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is
> plural. Did I
>>> > > miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also works:
> quidquam/quicquam ius
>>> > > iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are not required to swear any
> [sworn]
>>> > > oath. Latin has no problem with repeating words from the same
> root in close
>>> > > proximity...
>>> > >
>>> > > Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno Domini
>>> > > 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
>>> > >
>>> > > [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th year
>>> > > after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007),
> during
>>> > > the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
>>> > >
>>> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
>>> > > Praetor
>>> > >
>>> > >
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete,
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Oh, dear! Hope you feel better. In recent years,
> dentists have had
>>> > > a wonderful substance called novocain available...I recommend it,
> though it
>>> > > will not cure the pain in the wallet from such dental adventures.
>>> > >
>>> > > This edictum is MUCH better, in any case. I hope we can work
> together
>>> > > with your newly-designated scribae, though the harsh and
> unwarranted words of
>>> > > one may make that rather difficult. I did not want to interfere
> with your
>>> > > right to nominate your own scribae, and did not therefore veto
> the earlier
>>> > > edictum, but handing imperium to scribae is a definite no-no
> which gave me and
>>> > > others very considerable pause, especially when closely followed
> by events
>>> > > which made it impossible for members of my cohors to do their
> work. Let us
>>> > > hope that holy wisdom will now prevail, and communication improve
> so that we
>>> > > can have a better, clean, neat, sparkling, and orderly Tabularium
> on the
>>> > > vicipaedia. This is an enormous task, and we do need help as
> Sabinus can do
>>> > > only so much, but cooperation rather than temper tantrums is what
> is needed.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>>> > >
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nones septembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"He served his quaestorship most splendidly. When he was aedile he
gave the Roman people twelve exhibitions, that is one for each month,
at his own expense; at times, indeed, he provided five hundred pairs
of gladiators, and never less than a hundred and fifty. He produced a
hundred wild beasts of Libya at once, and likewise at one time a
thousand bears. There exists also today a remarkable wild-beast hunt
of his, pictured in Gnaeus Pompey's 'House of the Beaks'; this palace
belonged to him and to his father and grandfather before him until
your privy-purse took it over in the time of Philip. In this picture
at the present day are contained two hundred stags with antlers shaped
like the palm of a hand, together with stags of Britain, thirty wild
horses, a hundred wild sheep, ten elks, a hundred Cyprian bulls, three
hundred red Moorish ostriches, thirty wild asses, a hundred and fifty
wild boars, two hundred chamois, and two hundred fallow deer. And all
these he handed over to the people to be killed on the day of the
sixth exhibition that he gave." - Vopiscus, Historia Augusta, "The
First Gordian" 5-8

"He also gave the Romans their pleasures, and noted ones, too, and he
bestowed largesses also. He celebrated a triumph over the Germans and
the Blemmyae, and caused companies from all nations, each of them
containing up to fifty men, to be led before his triumphal procession.
He gave in the Circus a most magnificent wild-beast hunt, at which all
things were to be the spoils of the people. Now the manner of this
spectacle was as follows: great trees, torn up with the roots by the
soldiers, were set up on a platform of beams of wide extent, on which
earth was then thrown, and in this way the whole Circus, planted to
look like a forest, seemed, thanks to this new verdure, to be putting
forth leaves. Then through all the entrances were brought in one
thousand ostriches, one thousand stags and one thousand wild-boars,
then deer, ibexes, wild sheep, and other grass-eating beasts, as many
as could be reared or captured. The populace was then let in, and each
man seized what he wished. Another day he brought out in the
Amphitheatre at a single performance one hundred maned lions,84 which
woke the thunder with their roaring. All of these were slaughtered as
they came out of the doors of their dens, and being killed in this way
they afforded no great spectacle. For there was none of that rush on
the part of the beasts which takes place when they are let loose from
cages. Besides, many, unwilling to charge, were despatched with
arrows. Then he brought out one hundred leopards from Libya, then one
hundred from Syria, then one hundred lionesses and at the same time
three hundred bears; all of which beasts, it is clear, made a
spectacle more vast than enjoyable. 8 He presented, besides, three
hundred pairs of gladiators, among whom fought many of the Blemmyae,
who had been led in his triumph, besides many Germans and Sarmatians
also and even some Isaurian brigands." - op. cit., "Probus" 1-7

"There were thirty-two elephants at Rome in the time of Gordian (of
which he himself had sent twelve and Alexander ten), ten elk, ten
tigers, sixty tame lions, thirty tame leopards, ten belbi or hyenas,
p445a thousand pairs of imperial gladiators, six hippopotami, one
rhinoceros, ten wild lions, ten giraffes, twenty wild asses, forty
wild horses, and various other animals of this nature without number.
All of these Philip presented or slew at the secular games. All these
animals, wild, tame, and savage, Gordian intended for a Persian
triumph; but his official vow proved of no avail, for Philip presented
all of them at the secular games, consisting of both gladiatorial
spectacles and races in the Circus, that were celebrated on the
thousandth anniversary of the founding of the City, when he and his
son were consuls." - op. cit., "The Third Gordian" 1-3

"It is mentioned as a proof of the growing magnificence of the age
that in the Ludi Circenses, exhibited by the curule aediles P.
Cornelius Scipio Nasica and P. Lentulus, B.C. 168, there were 63
African panthers and 40 bears and elephants. From about this time
combats with wild beasts probably formed a regular part of the Ludi
Circenses, and many of the curule aediles made great efforts to obtain
rare and curious animals, and put in requisition the services of their
friends. Elephants are said to have first fought in the Circus in the
curule aedileship of Claudius Pulcher, B.C. 99, and twenty years
afterwards, in the curule aedileship of the two Luculli, they fought
against bulls. A hundred lions were exhibited by Sulla in his
praetorship, which were destroyed by javelin-men sent by king Bocchus
for the purpose. This was the first time that lions were allowed to be
loose in the Circus; they were previously always tied up. The games,
however, in the curule aedileship of Scaurus B.C. 58 surpassed
anything the Romans had ever seen; among other novelties he first
exhibited an hippopotamos and five crocodiles in a temporary canal or
trench.

The occasions on which venationes were exhibited have been
incidentally mentioned above. They seem to have been first confined to
the Ludi Circenses, but during the later times of the republic, and
under the empire, they were frequently exhibited on the celebration of
triumphs, and on many other occasions, with the view of pleasing the
people. The passion for these shows continued to increase under the
empire, and the number of beasts sometimes slaughtered seems almost
incredible. At the consecration of the great amphitheatre of Titus,
5000 wild beasts and 4000 tame animals were killed, and in the games
celebrated by Trajan, after his victories over the Dacians, there are
said to have been as many as 11,000 animals slaughtered. Under the
emperors we read of a particular kind of venatio, in which the beasts
were not killed by bestiarii, but were given up to the people, who
were allowed to rush into the area of the circus and carry away what
they pleased. On such occasions a number of large trees, which had
been torn up by the roots, was planted in the circus, which thus
resembled a forest, and none of the more savage animals were admitted
into it." - Sir William Smith (ed.), AD 1813-1893

The Circenses Ludi began today and continued until a.d. XIII Kalendas
Octobris. Despite the stereotypical image of Rome's national sport
being feeding assorted malcontents to the lions, the only sport which
really could lay claim to being 'the national sport' was chariot
racing. Given that the procession of the Ludi Romani went to the
Circus Maximus, with its capacity of possibly 150,000, it's not
surprising that ludi circenses formed a large part of the festivities.
Outside of the thrill of the races themselves the Circus Maximus was
also one of the very few venues where seating was not segregated
according to sex, and if we believe the poet Ovid, it was a great
place to meet and rub shoulders (literally) with future spouses and
persons one intended to have a less permanent relationship with.
After the building of the Flavian Amphitheater (popularly known as the
Colosseum), the last two spectacles were moved to that site. Although
these amphitheater sports were popular enough, the chariot races in
the Circus Maximus remained the favorite spectator sport of the
Romans. Chariot races were a main feature of the Ludi Romani (along
with military parades), but were also part of the other ludi. Roman
not only loved the tremendous excitement of these dangerous high speed
races, but they were also fanatical about their support of the various
racing factions that derived their names from the colors worn by their
charioteers: the red, green, blue, and white. The fanaticism of the
spectators sometimes led to disturbances in the grandstand. The
factions were owned by businessmen and included the horses, chariots,
stables, equipment, and drives, who were mostly slaves (although
successful became very wealthy and purchased their freedom). The
owners rented the horses, chariots, and drivers to the public
officials in charge of the ludi.

The festival was originally held on Idibus Octobribus to commemorate
the dedication of the temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus (509 or 507
B.C.). As might be expected, even though the festival expanded in
length in both directions, this was the "high point" of the whole
thing and by the late Republic, there were a number of feasts (epuli)
to honour Jupiter and/or assorted divinities closely associated with
him (they are somewhat confusing). The earliest such epulum, which
possibly dates from 509 B.C., if not earlier, seems to be the epulum
Iovi which only involved senatorial types. Later we hear of an epulum
Iovi, Iunoni, Minervae (i.e. the Capitoline triad) and one in honour
of Minerva alone. By the turn of the second century A.D., however,
these (and other) epulones required major organization (presumably
because more people were allowed to take part in some of them) and so
in 196 B.C. we hear of a college of three epulones -- three special
magistrates -- whose sole task was to organize such banquets. By the
end of the Republic,ten such magistrates were needed.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

William Smith, Vopiscus, Campus Mawrtius
(http://campusmawrtius.blogspot.com), Wikipedia

On "No oath shall be required" :

ius non sit iurandum

I think that would be more straight forward

A. Bianchius Pius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus, sociis,

peregrinisque

> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius Praetoribus s.d.
> >
> > On "No oath shall be required" :
> >
> >>> >>Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur
> >
> >> > ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we add a
> > little something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is
> > plural. Did I miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also
> > works: quidquam/quicquam ius iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are
> > not required to swear any [sworn] oath. Latin has no problem with
> > repeating words from the same root in close proximity...
> >
> > Yes, you are right Tullia. In fact, there may exist roughly a dozen
> > way to translate this short sentence. The variable is here "shall be
> > required".
> >
> > In such sentences, I would not personally use "poscere" because when
> > I "posco", this is precisely because I think that this is my right
> > *but* and/or am not sure that I will be answered positively.
> > Here, in an edictum situation, things are different because if the
> > civis would not accept, she/he could not be in the office.
> >
> > ATS2: My primary English-Latin dictionary gives postulo,

exigo, and posco

> > among the choices for translating the English word demand; perhaps

one of the

> > other two might please you better. However, the OLD does not seem

to indicate

> > that poscere is associated with one�s rights, though it does carry

the notion

> > of insistence or authority.
> >
> > Then, several verbs may be used. Personally, in such edicts, I tend
> > to use what seems to be the more simple and (so) one of the
> > most 'latin' solutions : "Ius iurandum non opus est" = "an oath is
> > not necessary". It thus allows you not to use a verb, which should
> > be 'iurare', as Tullia as well reminded it.
> >
> > ATS2: Though the construction with this is ablative of the

thing and

> > dative of the person, which becomes more complex: Eis nullo iure

iurando opus

> > est. There, I think, we can safely skip the infinitive, iurare.
> >
> > Just a contribution.
> >
> > ATS2: Gratias!
> >
> > Valete Praetoribus,
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.

> > Tullia Scholastica"
> > <fororom@> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae
> > voluntatis S.P.D.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Cato Artoriae Marcellae A. Tulliae Scholasticae Memmio

Albucio Gn.

> >>> > > Equitio Marino C. Fabio Buteoni Modianus omnibusque SPD
> >>> > >
> >>> > > In view of the questions regarding the powers with which I have
> >>> > > invested my scribae Apllonius Cordus and Lucretius Agricola, I
> > should
> >>> > > reword my edict to use the form "auctoritas" rather
> > than "imperium".
> >>> > > It is precisely as Fabius Modianus has described: they may act
> > fully
> >>> > > and completely with the authority of my office behind them; they
> > speak
> >>> > > directly for me in this matter. In my haste and attempt to make
> > it
> >>> > > clear that they have absolute authority I used the
> > term "imperium",
> >>> > > and because I am a self-proclaimed stickler for the law, I

hereby

> >>> > > rescind my edict of ante diem X Kal. Sept. and replace it

thusly:

> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>> > >
> >>> > > EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: Latin fix: Catonis, amice. Catoni is
> > dative; we
> >>> > > need the genitive here.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum officiis

privilegiisque

> >>> > > omnibus praescriptis legibus Novae Romae designo. [By this

edict,

> > I
> >>> > > appoint the follwing citizens as scribes with all the rights and
> >>> > > privileges afforded under Nova Roman law]
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I hereby formally appoint M. Lucretius Agricola and A.

Apollonius

> >>> > > Cordus as scribae with powers to curate the Tabularium on my
> > behalf,
> >>> > > with full praetorian auctoritas to do so.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Hoc edictum statim valet. Quidquam ius iurandum non poscentur.
> > [This
> >>> > > edict takes effect immediately. No oath shall be required]
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: More Latin: poscetur makes better sense here unless we
> > add a little
> >>> > > something...quidquam ius iurandum is singular; poscentur is
> > plural. Did I
> >>> > > miss iurare? Poscentur iurare ius iurandum also works:
> > quidquam/quicquam ius
> >>> > > iurandum iurare non poscentur, they are not required to

swear any

> > [sworn]
> >>> > > oath. Latin has no problem with repeating words from the same
> > root in close
> >>> > > proximity...
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Datum sub manu mea Kal. Sept. MMDCCLX ab urbe condita (anno

Domini

> >>> > > 2007) L. Arminio Fausto Tb. Galerio Paulino coss.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > [Given under my hand this Kalends of September in the 2769th

year

> >>> > > after the founding of the City (in the Year of Our Lord 2007),
> > during
> >>> > > the consulships of L. Arminus Faustus and Tb. Galerius Paulinus]
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> >>> > > Praetor
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Valete,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Cato, who had a root canal and is therefore allowed to be grumpy
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: Oh, dear! Hope you feel better. In recent years,
> > dentists have had
> >>> > > a wonderful substance called novocain available...I

recommend it,

> > though it
> >>> > > will not cure the pain in the wallet from such dental

adventures.

> >>> > >
> >>> > > This edictum is MUCH better, in any case. I hope we can

work

> > together
> >>> > > with your newly-designated scribae, though the harsh and
> > unwarranted words of
> >>> > > one may make that rather difficult. I did not want to

interfere

> > with your
> >>> > > right to nominate your own scribae, and did not therefore veto
> > the earlier
> >>> > > edictum, but handing imperium to scribae is a definite no-no
> > which gave me and
> >>> > > others very considerable pause, especially when closely followed
> > by events
> >>> > > which made it impossible for members of my cohors to do their
> > work. Let us
> >>> > > hope that holy wisdom will now prevail, and communication

improve

> > so that we
> >>> > > can have a better, clean, neat, sparkling, and orderly

Tabularium

> > on the
> >>> > > vicipaedia. This is an enormous task, and we do need help as
> > Sabinus can do
> >>> > > only so much, but cooperation rather than temper tantrums is

what

> > is needed.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Vale, et valete.
> >>> > >
> >> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The Queen of the birds

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=co5mjYEXoxo

Video: The Queen of the birds
Música: Paul Mounsey

Rhea was the name that received the goddess Cybele in Greece, and Rhea is
name that receives the family of the ostriches.
In the small vestibule of entrance of "Santa Eulalia de Bóveda" in Lucus
Augusti, and hides from the outside, exists a surprising relief. A ostrich
on a stone upon a fine column.
The image makes Cybele-Rhea, represented by an ostrich upon the "Black
Stone", the well-known bird of greater size in antiquity.
Cybele-Rhea, the queen of the birds.

Valete.
G. Minicius Agrippa

SALVE MINICI AGRIPPA ET SALVETE!

Very nice post! I saw the movie with maximum interest and it is interesting and well presented.

Quirites, I don't do a mistake if I bring in your attention, from time to time, one of the most important NR project dedicated to Magna Mater:
http://www.magnamaterproject.org/en/home.php

There is a support page, too:
http://www.magnamaterproject.org/en/project/support.htm

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
MMP Coordinator.

"G. MINICIUS AGRIPPA" <csm@...> wrote:

The Queen of the birds

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=co5mjYEXoxo

Video: The Queen of the birds
Música: Paul Mounsey

Rhea was the name that received the goddess Cybele in Greece, and Rhea is
name that receives the family of the ostriches.
In the small vestibule of entrance of "Santa Eulalia de Bóveda" in Lucus
Augusti, and hides from the outside, exists a surprising relief. A ostrich
on a stone upon a fine column.
The image makes Cybele-Rhea, represented by an ostrich upon the "Black
Stone", the well-known bird of greater size in antiquity.
Cybele-Rhea, the queen of the birds.

Valete.
G. Minicius Agrippa






"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia G. Minucio spd;
gratias tibi ago! gracias muchas por el video hermoso.
Cibeles adoria por todo mundo antiguo.
thanks again
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> The Queen of the birds
>
> http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=co5mjYEXoxo
>
> Video: The Queen of the birds
> Música: Paul Mounsey
>
> Rhea was the name that received the goddess Cybele in Greece, and

Rhea is

> name that receives the family of the ostriches.
> In the small vestibule of entrance of "Santa Eulalia de Bóveda"

in Lucus

> Augusti, and hides from the outside, exists a surprising relief. A

ostrich

> on a stone upon a fine column.
> The image makes Cybele-Rhea, represented by an ostrich upon

the "Black

> Stone", the well-known bird of greater size in antiquity.
> Cybele-Rhea, the queen of the birds.
>
> Valete.
> G. Minicius Agrippa
>

Ex Officio Curule Aediles

EDICTUM CURULE AEDILE DE LUDI ROMANI 2760 a.U.c

According to the Official Calendar of Nova Roma, the Ludi Megalenses are to be celebrated from September 5th to September19th. We Curule Aediles and our Cohors will be presenting the Ludi Romani, held in honor of Iuppiter Optimus Maximus.

The schedule of events, subject to change:


5th - opening ritual
6th - military contest, day one
7th - 1st play
8th - venationes
9th - no event scheduled
10th - military contest day two
11th - circenses quarters
12th - munera
13th - poetry
14th - military contest day three
15th - circenses semis
16th - 2nd play
17th - cultural award
18th - circenses finals
19th - closing, military contest results

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given by our hands dies est pridie Nones septembris MMDCCLX a.U.c, ( September 4th, 2760 a.U.c ), in the consulship of L. Arminius Faustus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus.

Iulia Caesar Cytheris Aege T. Artoria Marcella
Aediles Curules

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Noniis Septembribus; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

Today begin the Ludi Romani!

On this day the temple of Iuppiter Stator was consecrated, also called
the "aedes Iovi Metellani" and "aedes Metelli":

"Natus hic in Graeca Italiae ora et civitate Romana donatus cum iis
oppidis, Iovem fecit eboreum in Metelli aede, qua campus petitur.
accidit ei cum in navalibus, ubi ferae Africanae erant, per caveam
intuens leonem caelaret, ut ex alia cavea panthera erumperet, non levi
periculo diligentissimi artificis. fecisse opera complura dicitur;
quae fecerit, nominatim non refertur." - Pliny, Natural History,
36.40

By tradition, it was built to honor a vow made by Romulus for victory
over the Sabines:

"However this may be, the Sabines were in possession of the citadel.
And they would not come down from it the next day, though the Roman
army was drawn up in battle array over the whole of the ground between
the Palatine and the Capitoline hill, until, exasperated at the loss
of their citadel and determined to recover it, the Romans mounted to
the attack. Advancing before the rest, Mettius Curtius, on the side of
the Sabines, and Hostius Hostilius, on the side of the Romans, engaged
in single combat. Hostius, fighting on disadvantageous ground, upheld
the fortunes of Rome by his intrepid bravery, but at last he fell; the
Roman line broke and fled to what was then the gate of the Palatine.
Even Romulus was being swept away by the crowd of fugitives, and
lifting up his hands to heaven he exclaimed: "Jupiter, it was thy omen
that I obeyed when I laid here on the Palatine the earliest
foundations of the City. Now the Sabines hold its citadel, having
bought it by a bribe, and coming thence have seized the valley and are
pressing hitherwards in battle. Do thou, Father of gods and men, drive
hence our foes, banish terror from Roman hearts, and stay our shameful
flight! Here do I vow a temple to thee, 'Jove the Stayer,' as a
memorial for the generations to come that it is through thy present
help that the City has been saved." Then, as though he had become
aware that his prayer had been heard, he cried, "Back, Romans! Jupiter
Optimus Maximus bids you stand and renew the battle." They stopped as
though commanded by a voice from heaven - Romulus dashed up to the
foremost line, just as Mettius Curtius had run down from the citadel
in front of the Sabines and driven the Romans in headlong flight over
the whole of the ground now occupied by the Forum. He was now not far
from the gate of the Palatine, and was shouting: "We have conquered
our faithless hosts, our cowardly foes; now they know that to carry
off maidens is a very different thing from fighting with men." In the
midst of these vaunts Romulus, with a compact body of valiant troops,
charged down on him. Mettius happened to be on horseback, so he was
the more easily driven back, the Romans followed in pursuit, and,
inspired by the courage of their king, the rest of the Roman army
routed the Sabines. Mettius, unable to control his horse, maddened by
the noise of his pursuers, plunged into a morass. The danger of their
general drew off the attention of the Sabines for a moment from the
battle; they called out and made signals to encourage him, so,
animated to fresh efforts, he succeeded in extricating himself.
Thereupon the Romans and Sabines renewed the fighting in the middle of
the valley, but the fortune of Rome was in the ascendant." - Livy,
History of Rome 1.12

Alternatively, Romulus only vowed a set of armor to Iuppiter:

"And Romulus, making a vow to Jupiter, if he should conquer, to carry,
himself, and dedicate his adversary's armor to his honor, overcame him
in combat, and, a battle ensuing, routed his army also, and then took
his city; but did those he found in it no injury, only commanded them
to demolish the place and attend him to Rome, there to be admitted to
all the privileges of citizens. And indeed there was nothing did more
advance the greatness of Rome, than that she did always unite and
incorporate those whom she conquered into herself. Romulus, that he
might perform his vow in the most acceptable manner to Jupiter, and
withal make the pomp of it delightful to the eye of the city, cut down
a tall oak which he saw growing in the camp, which he trimmed to the
shape of a trophy, and fastened on it Acron's whole suit of armor
disposed in proper form; then he himself, girding his clothes about
him, and crowning his head with a laurel-garland, his hair gracefully
flowing, carried the trophy resting erect upon his right shoulder, and
so marched on, singing songs of triumph, and his whole army following
after, the citizens all receiving him with acclamations of joy and
wonder." - Plutarch, Pasrallel Lives, "Romulus"

In the event, Romulus' temple was never built; later, however, the
consul L. Postumius Megellus had the temple built, in 294 B.C.:

"According to Claudius, Postumius, after taking some cities in
Samnium, was routed and put to flight in Apulia, he himself being
wounded, and was driven with a small body of his troops to Luceria;
the victories in Etruria were won by Atilius and it was he who
celebrated the triumph. Fabius tells us that both consuls conducted
the campaign in Samnium and at Luceria, and that the army was
transferred to Etruria, but he does not say by which consul. He also
states that at Luceria the losses were heavy on both sides, and that a
temple was vowed to Jupiter Stator in that battle. This same vow
Romulus had made many centuries before, but only the fanum, that is
the site of the temple, had been consecrated. As the State had become
thus doubly pledged, it became necessary to discharge its obligation
to the god, and the senate made an order this year for the
construction of the temple." - Op. cit. 10.37

It was located by the Theatre of Metellus:

"The PERIPTEROS has six columns in the front and rear, and eleven on
the flanks, counting in the two columns at the angles, and these
eleven are so placed that their distance from the wall is equal to an
intercolumniation, or space between the columns all round, and thus is
formed a walk around the cell of the temple, such as may be seen in
the portico of the theatre of Metellus, in that of Jupiter Stator..."
- Vitruvius Pollio, de Architectura Book III, 2.5

And, like the temple of Iuno near it, had no inscriptions on it:

"This is the Metellus Macedonicus who had previously built the portico
about the two temples without inscriptions which are now surrounded by
the portico of Octavia, and who brought from Macedonia the group of
equestrian statues which stand facing the temples, and, even at the
present time, are the chief ornament of the place" - Vetellius
Paterculus, Roman History 1.11.3

There grew up a legend that two Spartans had built it, and mistakenly
placed the statues of the two gods (Iuppiter and Iuno) in the wrong
temples by mistake:

"quidam et opibus praepotentes fuisse eos putant ac sua inpensa
construxisse, inscriptionem sperantes, qua negata hoc tamen alio modo
usurpasse. sunt certe etiam nunc in columnarum spiris inscalptae
nominum eorum argumento lacerta atque rana. In Iovis aede ex iis
pictura cultusque reliquus omnis femineis argumentis constat; erat
enim facta Iunoni, sed, cum inferrentur signa, permutasse geruli
traduntur, et id religioone custoditum, velut ipsis diis sedem ita
partitis. Ergo et in Iunonis aede cultus est qui Iovis esse debuit.
Sunt et in parvolis marmoreis famam consecuti Myrmecides, cuius
quadrigam cum agitatore operuit alis musca, et Callicrates, cuius
formicarum pedes atque alia membra pervidere non est." - Pliny,
Natural History 36.42, 43

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Pliny, Paterculus, Pollio

Salvete omnes!


At dawn Tita Marcella Artoria and Iulia Caesar Cytheris order
silentium:



Artoria Marcella: Hoc agete!

Iulia Cytheris : Procul, o procul, este profane!



Before the altar is cleaned the aediles wash their hands in new,
fresh water three times and pray to the Gods of Rome:

Iulia Cytheris: " Haec aqua a corpore impuritates eluat, ut pluvial
terra purgat.

"May my body be purified by this water, as
the earth is purified by

rain."

Artoria Marcella: "May all the impure be washed away and become pure
again!"



Iulia Cytheris begins cleaning and purifying the altar: The surface
is cleaned with vervain and the area around the altar is aspersed
with pure water. After that fresh water is spread over it. Artoria
Marcella sets white and red wooden filets round the altar.

The fire is lit on the altar as Artoria Marcella and Iulia Cytheris
pray to Goddess Vesta:

"Goddess Vesta may you watch over this sacred fire and see that
today's offerings are blessed by the Gods."

The Goddess is offered milk. Milk is poured on the sacred fire from
the gold cups.

A pompa is ordered and the vessels are brought to the altar by the
young vestals.



Artoria Marcella and Iulia Cytheris invoke Di Testores:

Iulia Cytheris: "Cybele, hail to you goddess! Thou art the mother of
this world watching over us. Goddess of the universe and life who
makes all things grow, without your rays of vitality nature wouldn't
be so rich. Oh, Cybele, come and watch over this ritual, bring your
smile upon Nova Roma and Nova Romani! "

The Goddess is offered milk and honey.

Artoria Marcella : "Mars, mighty and wise God may you watch over
all Nova Romani and end all wrath that may come upon us; give us
courage and be praised for blessing our men in times of hardship.
Witness this rite and may the strength of thy weapons protect our
cives and the eternal city of Rome ! Bless our Ludi ! "

The God is offered wine and honey.

Frankincense is burned on the altar.

"Cybele and Mars honor us and witness this rite! Grant us Your divine
protection and bless the participants to the ludi!"

Sacrificatio: Artoria Marcella calls upon the benevolence of Iupiter
Optimus Maximus.

"Iupiter Optimus Maximus, father of this world we come in front of
you with our hearts open and by this ritual we seek to honor You.
Hear our prayer and honor this rite and Ludi Romani with your
presence. As many times before accept the offerings and bless our
cives ! Your lightening rules the firmament of this world and
everything knows your great power and force. Accept our libations and
send upon us your kind thoughts. My you always favour the actions of
Nova Roma and of its cives. May you grant our cives a rich and
peaceful life!"

Laurel incense is offered to Iupiter Optimus Maximus.



Iulia Cytheris prays to Iupiter Optimus Maximus:

"Iupiter Optimus Maximus, we called you today to ask for your
blessings. Enlightened god of the pure Heavens let your most kind
thoughts fall upon us. Show mercy for the souls of our ancestors
whose ideals we now follow and look favorably upon us."

Wine is offered to Iupiter Optimus Maximus.

The wine is poured from gold cups by Iulia Cytheris and Artoria
Marcella over the altar fire with their right hand.

Iulia Cytheris: " Hail ,Goddess Minerva, always protecting the city
of Rome with thy strong shield! Listen to our call and accept these
offerings. In the memory of our great ancestors, in the memory of all
great Romans, accept this ritual and always show yourself to us
beautiful and wise, wearing thy shining spear, leading us through
life."

Wine and honey is poured from gold cups onto the sacred fire.

The wine is poured by Iulia Cytheris and Artoria Marcella over the
altar fire with their right hand.

Artoria Marcella: "We pray to You for the spirits of the ancestors
who died in battles, may they be always honored. We pray to you and
ask you to help us always follow Thy wise teachings and lead an
honorable life."

Laurel incense is offered to the Goddess.

Litatio

Artoria Marcella offers wine and honey to the Gods:

"I offer this wine to Iupiter Optimus Maximus and Minerva in thanks
for attending this rite. May you always watch over all Nova Roma and
those attending today this rite and Ludi Romani!"

Iulia Cytheris offers milk and honey to the Gods:

"I offer this wine to Cybele and Mars in thanks for attending this
rite. May you always watch over all Nova Roma and those attending
today this rite and Ludi Romani!"

Artoria Marcella and Iulia Cytheris burn frankincense on the altar.

"Iupiter Optimus Maximus we thank You for the kindness that You have
shown. Accept our offerings and grant us a peaceful existence."

"Godess Minerva , bless us and favor us on our path to knowledge;
always show yourself kind and understanding to our efforts !"

Wine and honey is being poured over the fire as the aediles thank the
Gods:

Iulia Cytheris: Nil amplius vos hodie posco,superi,satis est.

Artoria Marcela and Iulia Cytheris await for a sign from the Gods in
order to see if the offerings were accepted.

Salvete Omnes! Si valetis valeo!

History has told us that the Romans were a people who adopted many religious practices. It is believed even that many of the gods of ancient Rome came from spirits and deities of the Etruscans. The cult of Isis and Mythras are two of numerous examples each hailing from Egypt and the Arab lands respectively.

I tend to my lararium and the gods as best as I can. Daily morning prayer introduces me to the day and ends with evening prayer. I come from a religious catholic family that is divided by religion. We differ in our practices: the family as a whole follows Catholic doctrine and yet each has his and/or her own secondary faith. Part of the family practices the afro-Caribbean religion known as santeria. The other follows a form of streggheria. For the sake of bringing everyone up to speed, I will explain quickly.

Santeria is a synchrotized faith combining catholic imagery and practice with African spirituality. African gods and spirits known as Orishas are disquised or rather represented as saints from Catholocism.

Streggheria is a religion formed by Aradia who with her teachings established what has come to be known as a form of witchcraft from Italy. Its roots are closely tied to the Italian people and ancestry. This is not to say that every Italian is a practicioner. This faith revolves primarily around Diana. More precisely Diana Nemorensis. This translates into Diana of the woods/forest/oak.

All explanation aside, is it proper and acceptable to tend the altars of these "foreign" gods. I have a shrine to Yemanja my patron mother from santeria. She is the goddess of the sea and mother to all the Orishas. My heart is in the religio Romana. I wish to continue worshiping the gods of ancient Rome. May I contine tending both?

> Valete.
> G. Minicius Agrippa
>

Salve!

Your first name is Gaius, so the correct abbreviation is C.

Vale!


C. Octavia Agrippa

P. Memmius Albucius Tacito s.d.

Sorry if I do not answer the matter itself of your question.

On Etruscans : this is not amazing, for Romans and Etruscans were
neighbors and for Rome had Etruscan kings.

On Mithra : it is an indo-iranian deity, not an Arab one. Arabs live
in Arabic peninsula, and not in current Iran or India, where from
Mithra comes. This difference is still accurate.

I hope that you will be able to answer your complex question.

Vale Tacite,


P. Memmius Albucius

----------------------


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "tacitus_pocillator"
<phoebus_apollo9@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes! Si valetis valeo!
>
> History has told us that the Romans were a people who adopted many

religious practices. It is believed even that many of the gods of
ancient Rome came from spirits and deities of the Etruscans. The cult
of Isis and Mythras are two of numerous examples each hailing from
Egypt and the Arab lands respectively.

>
> I tend to my lararium and the gods as best as I can. Daily morning

prayer introduces me to the day and ends with evening prayer. I come
from a religious catholic family that is divided by religion. We
differ in our practices: the family as a whole follows Catholic
doctrine and yet each has his and/or her own secondary faith. Part of
the family practices the afro-Caribbean religion known as santeria.
The other follows a form of streggheria. For the sake of bringing
everyone up to speed, I will explain quickly.

>
> Santeria is a synchrotized faith combining catholic imagery and

practice with African spirituality. African gods and spirits known as
Orishas are disquised or rather represented as saints from
Catholocism.

>
> Streggheria is a religion formed by Aradia who with her teachings

established what has come to be known as a form of witchcraft from
Italy. Its roots are closely tied to the Italian people and ancestry.
This is not to say that every Italian is a practicioner. This faith
revolves primarily around Diana. More precisely Diana Nemorensis.
This translates into Diana of the woods/forest/oak.

>
> All explanation aside, is it proper and acceptable to tend the

altars of these "foreign" gods. I have a shrine to Yemanja my patron
mother from santeria. She is the goddess of the sea and mother to all
the Orishas. My heart is in the religio Romana. I wish to continue
worshiping the gods of ancient Rome. May I contine tending both?

>

Salve Gracche, et salvete omnes,

Tiberius Iulius Gracchus, writing as tacitus_pocillator
<phoebus_apollo9@...> writes:

[about his religio privata, which includes syncretic elements from
other traditions]

> My heart is in the religio Romana. I wish to continue worshiping the gods
> of ancient Rome. May I contine tending both?

Your religio privata, the rites you practice within your own home, is
entirely up to you. As long as you don't attempt to interfere with
the practice of the religio publica it's of no concern to anybody else.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve Gaia Octavia,

Gaia Octavia Agrippa <RPF.21@...> writes:

>> Valete.
>> G. Minicius Agrippa
>>
>
> Salve!
>
> Your first name is Gaius, so the correct abbreviation is C.

In fact, either G. or C. is acceptable. Furthermore, finding fault
with the spelling of others in public is rude. If you must do so, at
least do so by private e-mail.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve
Iulius Sabinus and Maior. Thanks for your words and spirit.

and by your learned precision to Octavia Agrippa.

Valete
C. Minicius Agrippa

Salvete omnes

During the archaeological excavations that went on at the Baltic
Exchange in the city of London (the site where the 'Gherkin' now is)
a skeleton of a young teenage girl was found - in a ditch away from
the Roman cemetery area. The developers wanted to re-bury the
skeleton on the site. This is not something you are allowed to do
these days - skeletons have to be buried in licensed burial grounds
(and the nearest to the city of London is currently out in Ilford, in
the county of Essex well to the east of London.). The developers
persisted for quite some years until the Corporation of London agreed
that she could be buried in a metal box under the pavement in Bury
Street with a suitable inscription.

On April 17th 2007, the body was laid to rest with a humanist service
at St Botolph's Aldgate followed by a musical procession attended by
the Lord Mayor of London and other dignitaries with a wine and rose
petal libation. The respect afforded to this young roman girl, and
the sensitivity of the service, are to be commended.

The Order of Service was:

The reburial of a young Roman Londoner
Order of service 17th April 2007
St Botolph's Church, Aldgate, London EC3

Arrival

'Fleeting Life' – three movements for flute
composed for the occasion by Kyriakos Zavoleas
Rebecca Leek (soloist)
Jenny Bond, Kyriakos Zavoleas

Fleeting life: Mov.1 - Ceremony

The Service
Address by the Reverend Brian Lee
Reading: Rest by Christina Rossetti

O Earth, lie heavily on her eyes;
Seal her sweet eyes weary of watching, Earth;
Lie close around her; leave no room for mirth
With its harsh laughter, nor for sounds of sighs.
She hath no questions, she hath no replies,
Hush'd in and curtain'd with a blessed dearth
Of all that irk'd her from her hour of birth;
With stillness that is almost Paradise.
Darkness more clear than noonday holdeth her,
Silence more musical than any song;
Even her very heart has ceased to stir:
Until the morning of Eternity
Her rest shall not begin nor end, but be;
And when she wakes she will not think it long.

Reading: Sulpicia - elegy X by Tibullus

Phoebus Apollo, come, drive away the gentle girl's illness,
come, proud, with your unshorn curls.
Trust me, and hurry: Phoebus, you won't regret
having laid healing hands on her beauty.
See that no wasting disease grips her pale body,
no unpleasant marks stain her weak limbs,
and whatever ills exist, whatever sadness we fear,
let the swift river-waters carry them to the sea.

Come, sacred one, bring delicacies with you,
and whatever songs ease the weary body:
No need to weep: tears will be more fitting,
Phoebus, be gracious.
Soon you'll be honoured, delighted, when the debt
is repaid at your sacred altar.
Then the holy company of gods will call her happy,
each competing for her beauty and skills for themselves.

Procession from St Botolph's Church to Bury Street
Verger
Reverend Lee
Civic Party
Guests

Fleeting life: Mov.2 – Procession music

Reburial
Congregate at Bury Street
Welcome (Taryn Nixon)
Short recitation (Reverend Lee) with libations and musical
accompaniment
Dismissal

Fleeting life: Mov.3 – Last Words

If you are in London you can visit the site, and you will see the
following marble inscription:

DIS MANIBVS
PVELLA INCOGNITA
LONDINIENSIS
HIC SEPVLTA EST
To the spirits of the dead
the unknown young
Roman Londoner
lies buried here

Information kindly supplied by the Museum of London.

Valete optime

Gaius Marcius Crispus

Salve;
as Marinus put it so well, your religio privata is just that your
business.
On another theoretical level if you look to Roman religious history
in Imperial times the Egyptian deity Isis was worshipped all over the
Empire. Isis was also connected with water,' Stella Maris' was her
title. So I daresay if Romans ever made it to Brasil they would have
made a syncretic altar to Isis-Yemanja. They certainly did this with
other deities; think of Hercules- Melqart of Gades or Juno Caelestis-
Astarte of Carthage.
bene vale in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

> Your religio privata, the rites you practice within your own home,

is

> entirely up to you. As long as you don't attempt to interfere with
> the practice of the religio publica it's of no concern to anybody

else.

>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Salvete omnes!

Just a reminder that anyone who wishes to enroll their chariot, gladiator, or fighting beast needs to do so by tomorrow (Sept. 6th). The deadline will be 2400 Rome time instead of 1800.

Valete bene,
Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will be out of the office starting 06-09-2007 and will not return until
10-09-2007.

Thank you and have a nice day

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Censor.

If the Constitution does not specifically forbid the Consul from appointing
scribes to work on the Tabularium, then the Tribunes cannot act against the
Consular Edict. If you can cite the relevant portion of the Constitution &
by-laws that support your position, then you can count on the Tribunes to rule
such an edict as unconstitutional and we can pronounce intercessio against
it. If the matter is one that is open enough to be interpreted in several
ways, then the Tribunes can discuss it to reach a decision and take an
appropriate action.

You should realize that the Tribunes are not going to just let a clearly
unconstitutional edict go by without a challenge. We have given our oaths to
protect the Constitution and the rights of the People of Nova Roma.

I look forward to your response.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus,
Tribunus Plebis



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am getting into the Academia web site fine and had no problem
logging into LL P1 but cannot get into LLP2.

Q Cornelia Quadrata

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, dave bustillos <dave_bustillos@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve,
> I had not been able to log into the school site and was able to do

it to day. So it is open for anyone wanting to enroll.

>
> The only class I could not get was "What is Nova Roma"
> Vale,
> Lucius Curtius Paullus
>
> "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Martianio Lupo quiritibus, sociis,

peregrinisque

> > bonae voluntatis S P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Martianius Lupus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
> >
> > Although I have the Wheelock course textbook already, I continue

to have

> > problems with not being able to enroll into the (LL-P-2) Grammatica
> > Latina I class. I have been trying 1 to 3 times a day for nearly two
> > weeks without success. I keep getting the message: "This course is not
> > enrollable at the moment." Would you know what the problem might be?
> >
> > ATS: It¹s not really a problem per se...
> >
> > I have been able to enroll into both the (LL-P-1) Rudimenta Latina and
> > the (NR-P-1) For New Citizens: What is NR? classes. So I know that

I've

> > been able to connect to the AT site correctly. I am at a loss as to
> > what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions of what to do
> > now?
> >
> > ATS: As the honorable consularis Quintilianus mentioned, try in

about a

> > week. Part of the reason why enrollment is not allowed at present

is because

> > the courses ran far overtime due to circumstances beyond anyone¹s

control, and

> > the intermediate course just finished a couple of weeks ago. This

made it

> > impossible to alter the course websites as students were still

taking the

> > courses, so the updates have had to wait. As noted earlier, we

have just

> > prepared sound files which are being added to the site, so we have

to leave

> > materials available to the existing students which should be

hidden from new

> > ones...and we cannot have it both ways. Give it a while so that

the remaining

> > first-semester sound files can be put up, and the existing

students and

> > auditors hear them; after a decent interval, I shall hide the

materials, and

> > inform Saturninus that he may open enrollment.
> >
> > Rudimenta Latina is a book course, that is, one purchases and reads a
> > book, and is tested on the content at certain intervals; there are

no lessons,

> > so enrollment is possible at any time. Likewise the field courses,

such as

> > the one in which I am enrolled, Latinitas Viva, do not have fixed

lessons, but

> > depend on the schedule of various Latin seminars in which one

speaks Latin

> > constantly for a week or two under the supervision of a professor

or two or

> > three; enrollment is therefore possible at any time, though the

conventicula

> > are annual events. I¹m not sure about the new citizen course,

which is not

> > given in our faculty (facultas litterarum)...and I seem to have

passed beyond

> > any need for it... ;-)
> >
> > Optime vale!
> >
> > Et tu, et vos!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.

> > Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@>
> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
> > voluntatis
> >> > S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> > In fact, it¹s getting late for the introductory Wheelock course to
> > order
> >> > their texts...you MUST have the textbook no later than the end

of the

> > first
> >> > week of class, which seems to be the week of September 17th.

Those who

> > do
> >> > not have the text will not be able to do the homework, and will be
> > removed
> >> > from the list.
> >
> > /////// rest of message Snipped ///////
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone

who knows.

> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>