OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodie est Kalendis Octobribus; haec dies nefastus est.

"Come let duteous Rome recognize October's kalends, the birthday of
eloquent Restitutius: with all your tongues, and in all your prayers,
utter well-omed words; we keep a birthday, be still, ye lawsuits!" -
Martial

"Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of gods and men,
without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justicia, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women"
- Silius Italicus, Punica 2.484-87

On this day a procession to the Capitol was led by the three chief
flamines who rode in a covered wagon. With the fingers of their right
hands wrapped with white cloth bands, they sacrificed to the abstract
gods of Faith and Honor. Afterwards was held a feast.


"There happened to be in each of the armies a triplet of brothers,
fairly matched in years and strength. It is generally agreed that they
were called Horatii and Curiatii. Few incidents in antiquity have been
more widely celebrated, yet in spite of its celebrity there is a
discrepancy in the accounts as to which nation each belonged. There
are authorities on both sides, but I find that the majority give the
name of Horatii to the Romans, and my sympathies lead me to follow
them. The kings suggested to them that they should each fight on
behalf of their country, and where victory rested, there should be the
sovereignty. They raised no objection; so the time and place were
fixed. But before they engaged a treaty was concluded between the
Romans and the Albans, providing that the nation whose representatives
proved victorious should receive the peaceable submission of the
other. This is the earliest treaty recorded, and as all treaties,
however different the conditions they contain, are concluded with the
same forms, I will describe the forms with which this one was
concluded as handed down by tradition. The Fetial put the formal
question to Tullus: "Do you, King, order me to make a treaty with the
Pater Patratus of the Alban nation?" On the king replying in the
affirmative, the Fetial said: "I demand of thee, King, some tufts of
grass." The king replied: "Take those that are pure." The Fetial
brought pure grass from the Citadel. Then he asked the king: "Do you
constitute me the plenipotentiary of the People of Rome, the Quirites,
sanctioning also my vessels and comrades?" To which the king replied:
"So far as may be without hurt to myself and the People of Rome, the
Quirites, I do." The Fetial was M. Valerius. He made Spurius Furius
the Pater Patratus by touching his head and hair with the grass. Then
the Pater Patratus, who is constituted for the purpose of giving the
treaty the religious sanction of an oath, did so by a long formula in
verse, which it is not worth while to quote. After reciting the
conditions he said: "Hear, O Jupiter, hear! thou Pater Patratus of the
people of Alba! Hear ye, too, people of Alba! As these conditions have
been publicly rehearsed from first to last, from these tablets, in
perfect good faith, and inasmuch as they have here and now been most
clearly understood, so these conditions the People of Rome will not be
the first to go back from. If they shall, in their national council,
with false and malicious intent be the first to go back, then do thou,
Jupiter, on that day, so smite the People of Rome, even as I here and
now shall smite this swine, and smite them so much the more heavily,
as thou art greater in power and might." With these words he struck
the swine with a flint. In similar wise the Albans recited their oath
and formularies through their own dictator and their priests.

On the conclusion of the treaty the six combatants armed themselves.
They were greeted with shouts of encouragement from their comrades,
who reminded them that their fathers' gods, their fatherland, their
fathers, every fellow-citizen, every fellow-soldier, were now watching
their weapons and the hands that wielded them. Eager for the contest
and inspired by the voices round them, they advanced into the open
space between the opposing lines. The two armies were sitting in front
of their respective camps, relieved from personal danger but not from
anxiety, since upon the fortunes and courage of this little group hung
the issue of dominion. Watchful and nervous, they gaze with feverish
intensity on a spectacle by no means entertaining. The signal was
given, and with uplifted swords the six youths charged like a
battle-line with the courage of a mighty host. Not one of them thought
of his own danger; their sole thought was for their country, whether
it would be supreme or subject, their one anxiety that they were
deciding its future fortunes. When, at the first encounter, the
flashing swords rang on their opponents' shields, a deep shudder ran
through the spectators; then a breathless silence followed, as neither
side seemed to be gaining any advantage. Soon, however, they saw
something more than the swift movements of limbs and the rapid play of
sword and shield: blood became visible flowing from open wounds. Two
of the Romans fell one on the other, breathing out their life, whilst
all the three Albans were wounded. The fall of the Romans was welcomed
with a burst of exultation from the Alban army; whilst the Roman
legions, who had lost all hope, but not all anxiety, trembled for
their solitary champion surrounded by the three Curiatii. It chanced
that he was untouched, and though not a match for the three together,
he was confident of victory against each separately. So, that he might
encounter each singly, he took to flight, assuming that they would
follow as well as their wounds would allow. He had run some distance
from the spot where the combat began, when, on looking back, he saw
them following at long intervals from each other, the foremost not far
from him. He turned and made a desperate attack upon him, and whilst
the Alban army were shouting to the other Curiatii to come to their
brother's assistance, Horatius had already slain his foe and, flushed
with victory, was awaiting the second encounter. Then the Romans
cheered their champion with a shout such as men raise when hope
succeeds to despair, and he hastened to bring the fight to a close.
Before the third, who was not far away, could come up, he despatched
the second Curiatius. The survivors were now equal in point of
numbers, but far from equal in either confidence or strength. The one,
unscathed after his double victory, was eager for the third contest;
the other, dragging himself wearily along, exhausted by his wounds and
by his running, vanquished already by the previous slaughter of his
brothers, was an easy conquest to his victorious foe. There was, in
fact, no fighting. The Roman cried exultingly: "Two have I sacrificed
to appease my brothers' shades; the third I will offer for the issue
of this fight, that the Roman may rule the Alban." He thrust his sword
downward into the neck of his opponent, who could no longer lift his
shield, and then despoiled him as he lay. Horatius was welcomed by the
Romans with shouts of triumph, all the more joyous for the fears they
had felt. Both sides turned their attention to burying their dead
champions, but with very different feelings, the one rejoicing in
wider dominion, the other deprived of their liberty and under alien
rule. The tombs stand on the spots where each fell; those of the
Romans close together, in the direction of Alba; the three Alban
tombs, at intervals, in the direction of Rome." - Livy, History of
Rome 1.24-25

On this day was also commemorated the fight between the Horatii and
the Curiatii, known as the tigillum sororium. As Rome began to
expand, her neighbors did not always willingly submit to her control.
Alba Longa, the city founded by Aeneas' son Iulus (Ascanius), was one
such city. Frictions also arose because of cattle raiding between the
cities. According to the legend, Tullius Hostilius, king of Rome,
decided against full-scale war of city against city. Instead he
proposed single combats between a triplet of three brothers from Rome,
the Horatii, and another set of male triplets, the Curiatii, who were
citizens of Alba. Alba Longa agreed. The opponents were well-matched
and battle was fierce: all three Curiatii received wounds but two of
the Horatii were killed. The third resorted to a strategem: he fled,
which lured the Curiatii into pursuing him. But as they ran the
wounded and weakened Curiatii separated from each other and space
increased between them. This enabled the last of the Horatii to turn
and confront each individually. He succeeded in killing them one by
one, and thus won the day for Rome. The city of Alba Longa was
destroyed and Roman influence throughout Latium increased. The story
of the Horatii became a favorite for its celebration of stamina,
courage against the odds, and willingness to die for one's country.
The sister of the Horatii, however, openly wept over the death of one
of the Curiatii who had been her lover. In anger her surviving brother
killed her. For this murder he was condemned to death but was spared
when he appealed to the people. To do penance he was veiled and led
under a yoke, which was a typical punishment indicating submission to
the will of another. Unlike a yoke typically used with oxen or to
carry heavy buckets from one's shoulders, the punishment yoke was
created from three spears to form a doorway through which the penitent
must crawl.

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy, Horatii
(http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/historia/people/horatii01.htm) and
(http://www.bartleby.com/65/ho/Horatii.html), Martial, Silius Italicus

A. Apollonius Q. Valerio sal.

Scripsi:

> > By contrast, a woman had (with rare exceptions) only one name, and it was
> > the vaguest of the three names, the nomen. It told you nothing about her
> > except her gens, because that was, in those days, more or less all you
> > needed to know about a woman. If there was a need to distinguish her from
> > other women of the same name, it was done not by any name individual to her
> > but by saying who her husband was or who her father was. A woman was defined
> > in a very crude and off-hand way, as compared to the much more sophisticated
> > method of identifying a man, and when she was identified more precisely it
> > was solely in terms of her relationship to some man or other.

Scripsisti:

> This is not entirely true. Epigraphic descriptions often reveal something
> more...such as Septimia Maria Iudea and Annia Lucii or even Aurelia Artemeis
> and Caelia Thalassa.

I did say "with rare exceptions". Also remember that I was talking about the republic. I would guess the three examples you've given here are from the imperial period. In that period the system of male names broke down entirely, so it's no longer possible to draw relevant parallels between male and female nomenclature. Both male and female names became something of a free-for-all.

Scripsisti quoque:

> While a certain "inferiority" is inherent, it morphs into something new
> altogether, so that certain women actually have far more power than what is
> often realized.

Certainly some women in the old republic broke through their social constraints, but the system of nomenclature was one of those constraints. Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I had said not that a woman's name expressed her social inferiority but that a woman's name expressed a social system which tended to place her in a position of inferiority. The point is that the way in which women were named in the old republic is an expression of a set of social expectations.





___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

P. Memmius Albucius Sabino s.d.

Interesting various articles!

Thanks to C. Petronius Priscus for the Massaba article, and Q. Iulius
Probus for the Drobeta bridge "paper". And thanks to you, for your
lines on how the Roman metal masterworks entered, in house patterns,
ancient Dacia.

Vale bene amice et omnes Dacii,


P. Memmius Albucius






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

>
> SALVETE!
>
> The second edition of Dacia webzine: "Dacia Felix" is online. The
> webzine language is Romanian but the best article will be

translated

> in English for the next edition of "Columnae Herculis".
>
> "Dacia Felix" webzine is to the next web address:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Dacia_Felix_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> All citizens, provisional citizens and peregrini from

Dacia,interested

> to contribute with articles are encouraged to join to our mailing

list:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dacia-newsletter/
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiermus dies est ante diem VI Idus Octobris; haec dies fastus
aterque est.

"Whilst the Romans were passing their time quietly at the outposts, a
gigantic Gaul in splendid armour advanced towards them, and delivered
a challenge through an interpreter to meet any Roman in single combat.
There was a young military tribune, named Marcus Valerius, who
considered himself no less worthy of that honour than T. Manlius had
been. After obtaining the consul's permission, he marched, completely
armed, into the open ground between the two armies. The human element
in the fight was thrown into the shade by the direct interposition of
the gods, for just as they were engaging a crow settled all of a
sudden on the Roman's helmet with its head towards his antagonist. The
tribune gladly accepted this as a divinely-sent augury, and prayed
that whether it were god or goddess who had sent the auspicious bird
that deity would be gracious to him and help him. Wonderful to relate,
not only did the bird keep its place on the helmet, but every time
they encountered it rose on its wings and attacked the Gaul's face and
eyes with beak and talon, until, terrified at the sight of so dire a
portent and bewildered in eyes and mind alike, he was slain by
Valerius. Then, soaring away eastwards, the crow passed out of sight.
Hitherto the outposts on both sides had remained quiet, but when the
tribune began to despoil his foeman's corpse, the Gauls no longer kept
their posts, whilst the Romans ran still more swiftly to help the
victor. A furious fight took place round the body as it lay, and not
only the maniples at the nearest outposts but the legions pouring out
from the camp joined in the fray. The soldiers were exultant at their
tribune's victory and at the manifest presence and help of the gods,
and as Camillus ordered them into action he pointed to the tribune,
conspicuous with his spoils, and said: "Follow his example, soldiers,
and lay the Gauls in heaps round their fallen champion!" Gods and man
alike took part in the battle, and it was fought out to a finish,
unmistakably disastrous to the Gauls, so completely had each army
anticipated a result corresponding to that of the single combat. Those
Gauls who began the fight fought desperately, but the rest of the host
who came to help them turned back before they came within range of the
missiles. They dispersed amongst the Volscians and over the Falernian
district; from thence they made their way to Apulia and the western
sea.

The consul mustered his troops on parade, and after praising the
conduct of the tribune presented him with ten oxen and a golden
chaplet. In consequence of instructions received from the senate he
took over the maritime war and joined his forces with those of the
praetor. The Greeks were too lacking in courage to run the risk of a
general engagement, and there was every prospect of the war proving a
long one. Camillus was in consequence authorised by the senate to
nominate T. Manlius Torquatus as Dictator for the purpose of
conducting the elections. After appointing A. Cornelius Cossus as
Master of the Horse, the Dictator proceeded to hold the consular
elections. Marcus Valerius Corvus (for that was henceforth his
cognomen), a young man of twenty-three, was declared to be duly
elected amidst the enthusiastic cheers of the people. His colleague
was the plebeian, M. Popilius Laenas, now elected for the fourth time.
Nothing worth recording took place between Camillus and the Greeks;
they were no fighters on land and the Romans could not fight on the
sea. Ultimately, as they were prevented from landing anywhere and
water and the other necessaries of life failed them, they abandoned
Italy. To what Greek state or nationality that fleet belonged is a
matter of uncertainty; I think it most likely that it belonged to the
Tyrant of Sicily, for Greece itself was at that time exhausted by
intestine wars and was watching with dread the growing power of
Macedonia." - Livy, History of Rome 7.26


Today is also celebrated in the Roman Catholic Church as the feast of
the Guardian Angels. The word "angel" originated from the Latin
"angelus", itself derived from the Greek "aggelos", meaning
"messenger". An angel is a spiritual being which assists and serves
God or the gods in many religious traditions. A belief in angels, for
example, is central to the religion of Islam, beginning with the
belief that the Qu'ran was dictated to the Prophet Muhammed by the
angel Gabriel. The idea of a guardian angel or spirit predates
Christianity, as in Rome where every man had his genius – the
guiding or tutelary spirit of a person or indeed of an entire gens
– and every woman her Iuno. Belief in tutelary gods or spirits often
reflects a tradition of animism. We might think of the tutelary
spirits (in particular, genius loci, spirits associated with and
protective of place) of England as King Arthur and St. George, of
Sherwood Forest as Robin Hood, and Windsor Park, Herne. The Celtic
goddess Brigantia was tutelary goddess of the Brigantes tribe of
England. Individuals might also have tutelary spirits – angels,
fairy godmothers, totems or spirit guides, for example.

The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana of
Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates were
local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to be
present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and Juvenal
as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from Arabic
lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described as
tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as Kotitonttu,
tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of the
sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In Indonesia, a
guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
safeguard them as they sleep.


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Wikipedia

M. Hortensia G. Equitio spd;
post the Kalendar but please spare me the Christian Calendar.
Definitely Islam. If I wanted to be informed about Christian saints
I'd have joined a church, if I cared about Islam a mosque; not Nova
Roma.
Also your information is wrong. Angels come directly from
Zoroastrianism, when the Jews were in the Babylonian Exile they
received these ideas as well as the Day of Judgement, Heaven, Hell,
Eternal Punishment.

The Jews only believed in Sheol until they met with Zoroastrian
ideas.The Christians & Muslims inherited the same.
optime vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Today is also celebrated in the Roman Catholic Church as the feast

of

> the Guardian Angels. The word "angel" originated from the Latin
> "angelus", itself derived from the Greek "aggelos", meaning
> "messenger". An angel is a spiritual being which assists and serves
> God or the gods in many religious traditions. A belief in angels,

for

> example, is central to the religion of Islam, beginning with the
> belief that the Qu'ran was dictated to the Prophet Muhammed by the
> angel Gabriel. The idea of a guardian angel or spirit predates
> Christianity, as in Rome where every man had his genius – the
> guiding or tutelary spirit of a person or indeed of an entire gens
> – and every woman her Iuno. Belief in tutelary gods or spirits

often

> reflects a tradition of animism. We might think of the tutelary
> spirits (in particular, genius loci, spirits associated with and
> protective of place) of England as King Arthur and St. George, of
> Sherwood Forest as Robin Hood, and Windsor Park, Herne. The Celtic
> goddess Brigantia was tutelary goddess of the Brigantes tribe of
> England. Individuals might also have tutelary spirits – angels,
> fairy godmothers, totems or spirit guides, for example.
>
> The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana of
> Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
> Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates were
> local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to be
> present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and

Juvenal

> as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from

Arabic

> lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
> also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described as
> tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as

Kotitonttu,

> tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of the
> sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
> tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In

Indonesia, a

> guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
> safeguard them as they sleep.
>
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> SOURCES
>
> Livy, Wikipedia
>

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
And here is the quote from Professor Boyce's book:

"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an
individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the
body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the
reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar
articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism,
Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they
have their fullest logical coherence...." - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p.
29
http://www.avesta.org/ This is an excellent site, chock full of
texts, the real thing, as opposed to the silly platitudes of below;-)
Maior

> M. Hortensia G. Equitio spd;
> post the Kalendar but please spare me the Christian Calendar.
> Definitely Islam. If I wanted to be informed about Christian

saints

> I'd have joined a church, if I cared about Islam a mosque; not

Nova

> Roma.
> Also your information is wrong. Angels come directly from
> Zoroastrianism, when the Jews were in the Babylonian Exile they
> received these ideas as well as the Day of Judgement, Heaven,

Hell,

> Eternal Punishment.
>
> The Jews only believed in Sheol until they met with Zoroastrian
> ideas.The Christians & Muslims inherited the same.
> optime vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> > Today is also celebrated in the Roman Catholic Church as the

feast

> of
> > the Guardian Angels. The word "angel" originated from the Latin
> > "angelus", itself derived from the Greek "aggelos", meaning
> > "messenger". An angel is a spiritual being which assists and

serves

> > God or the gods in many religious traditions. A belief in

angels,

> for
> > example, is central to the religion of Islam, beginning with the
> > belief that the Qu'ran was dictated to the Prophet Muhammed by

the

> > angel Gabriel. The idea of a guardian angel or spirit predates
> > Christianity, as in Rome where every man had his genius – the
> > guiding or tutelary spirit of a person or indeed of an entire

gens

> > – and every woman her Iuno. Belief in tutelary gods or spirits
> often
> > reflects a tradition of animism. We might think of the tutelary
> > spirits (in particular, genius loci, spirits associated with and
> > protective of place) of England as King Arthur and St. George, of
> > Sherwood Forest as Robin Hood, and Windsor Park, Herne. The

Celtic

> > goddess Brigantia was tutelary goddess of the Brigantes tribe of
> > England. Individuals might also have tutelary spirits – angels,
> > fairy godmothers, totems or spirit guides, for example.
> >
> > The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana

of

> > Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
> > Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates

were

> > local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to

be

> > present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and
> Juvenal
> > as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from
> Arabic
> > lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
> > also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described

as

> > tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as
> Kotitonttu,
> > tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of

the

> > sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
> > tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In
> Indonesia, a
> > guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
> > safeguard them as they sleep.
> >
> >
> > Valete bene!
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > SOURCES
> >
> > Livy, Wikipedia
> >
>

Cato M. Hortensiae sal.

Please spare *me* the "anti-Christian" posturing. For someone who
constantly trumpets the virtues and value of religious freedom &c. you
sure take delight in stomping over the faith of billions.

And, for the record, I pointed out that the Latin *word* "angelus"
comes from the Greek for "messenger". Please read more carefully
before leaping from your rock of certainty into the waters of bigotry.
Thanks!

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia G. Equitio spd;
> post the Kalendar but please spare me the Christian Calendar.
> Definitely Islam. If I wanted to be informed about Christian saints
> I'd have joined a church, if I cared about Islam a mosque; not Nova
> Roma.
> Also your information is wrong. Angels come directly from
> Zoroastrianism, when the Jews were in the Babylonian Exile they
> received these ideas as well as the Day of Judgement, Heaven, Hell,
> Eternal Punishment.
>
> The Jews only believed in Sheol until they met with Zoroastrian
> ideas.The Christians & Muslims inherited the same.
> optime vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> > Today is also celebrated in the Roman Catholic Church as the feast
> of
> > the Guardian Angels. The word "angel" originated from the Latin
> > "angelus", itself derived from the Greek "aggelos", meaning
> > "messenger". An angel is a spiritual being which assists and serves
> > God or the gods in many religious traditions. A belief in angels,
> for
> > example, is central to the religion of Islam, beginning with the
> > belief that the Qu'ran was dictated to the Prophet Muhammed by the
> > angel Gabriel. The idea of a guardian angel or spirit predates
> > Christianity, as in Rome where every man had his genius – the
> > guiding or tutelary spirit of a person or indeed of an entire gens
> > – and every woman her Iuno. Belief in tutelary gods or spirits
> often
> > reflects a tradition of animism. We might think of the tutelary
> > spirits (in particular, genius loci, spirits associated with and
> > protective of place) of England as King Arthur and St. George, of
> > Sherwood Forest as Robin Hood, and Windsor Park, Herne. The Celtic
> > goddess Brigantia was tutelary goddess of the Brigantes tribe of
> > England. Individuals might also have tutelary spirits – angels,
> > fairy godmothers, totems or spirit guides, for example.
> >
> > The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana of
> > Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
> > Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates were
> > local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to be
> > present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and
> Juvenal
> > as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from
> Arabic
> > lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
> > also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described as
> > tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as
> Kotitonttu,
> > tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of the
> > sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
> > tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In
> Indonesia, a
> > guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
> > safeguard them as they sleep.
> >
> >
> > Valete bene!
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > SOURCES
> >
> > Livy, Wikipedia
> >
>

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

"To their religious performances were added the pleasures of wine and
feasting, to allure a greater number of proselytes. When wine,
lascivious discourse, night, and the intercourse of the sexes had
extinguished every sentiment of modesty, then debaucheries of every
kind began to be practiced, as every person found at hand that sort of
enjoyment to which he was disposed by the passion predominant in his
nature. Nor were they confined to one species of vice - the
promiscuous intercourse of free-born men and women; but from this
store-house of villainy proceeded false witnesses, counterfeit seals,
false evidences, and pretended discoveries. From the same place, too,
proceeded poison and secret murders, so that in some cases, not even
the bodies could be found for burial. Many of their audacious deeds
were brought about by treachery, but most of them by force; it served
to conceal the violence, that, on account of the loud shouting, and
the noise of drums and cymbals, none of the cries uttered by the
persons suffering violence or murder could be heard abroad.

The infection of this mischief, like that from the contagion of
disease, spread from Etruria to Rome; where, the size of the city
affording greater room for such evils, and more means of concealment,
cloaked it at first; but information of it was at length brought to
the consul, Postumius. There was a freedwoman called Hispala Fecenia,
a noted courtesan who gave a full account of the origin of the
mysteries. 'At first,' she said, 'those rites were performed by women.
No man used to be admitted. They had three stated days in the year on
which persons were initiated among the Bacchanalians, in the daytime.
The matrons used to be appointed priestesses, in rotation. Paculla
Minia, a Campanian, when priestess, made an alteration in every
particular, as if by the direction of the gods. For she first
introduced men, who were her own sons, Minucius and Herrenius, both
surnamed Cerrinius; changed the time of celebration, from day to
night; and, instead of three days in the year, appointed five days of
initiation, in each month.

From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber; where, dipping their torches
in the water, they drew them up again with the flame unextinguished,
being composed of native sulphur and charcoal. They said that those
men were carried off by the gods, whom the machines laid hold of and
dragged from their view into secret caves. These were such as refused
to take the oath of the society, or to associate in their crimes, or
to submit to defilement. This number was exceedingly great now, almost
a second state in themselves, and among them were many men and women
of noble families. During the last two years it had been a rule, that
no person above the age of twenty should be initiated; for they sought
for people of such age as made them more liable to suffer deception
and personal abuse.'" - Livy, History of Rome 39.8-16 [ed.]


"The consuls Quintus Marcius son of Lucius and Spurius Postumius son
of Lucius consulted the senate on the Nones of October in the Temple
of Bellona. Present at the writing of the decree were Marcus Claudius
son of Marcus, Lucius Valerius son of Publius, and Quintus Minucius
son of Gaius. Concerning the rites of Bacchus among the federated
peoples they decreed that the following edict be made:

'Let none of them be minded to have a shrine of Bacchus. If there are
any who say that they must needs have a shrine of Bacchus, they must
come to the Urban Praetor at Rome and, when their case has been heard,
our senate must make a decision on this, provided that not fewer than
one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed. Let
no man, whether Roman citizen or Latin ally or other ally, be minded
to go to a meeting of Bacchantes, unless they have gone to the Urban
Praetor and he has authorised it in accordance with a decision of the
senate, provided that not fewer than one hundred senators were present
when the matter was discussed.'

They decreed:

'Let no man be a priest. Let no-one, man or woman, be a master. Let
none of them be minded to keep a common fund. Let no-one be minded to
make any man or woman an official or a temporary official. Henceforth
let no-one be minded to conspire, collude, plot or make vows in common
among themselves or to pledge loyalty to each other. Let none of them
be minded to hold sacred rites in secret. Let none of them be minded
to hold sacred rites in public or in private or outside the city,
unless they have gone to the Urban Praetor and he has authorised it in
accordance with a decision of the senate, provided that not more than
one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed.'

They decreed:

'Let no group of more than five people in all, counting both men and
women, be minded to hold sacred rites; and let no more than two men or
three women be minded to be present, unless authorised by the Urban
Praetor and the senate as above.'

You are to publicize these decrees at a public meeting over a period
of not less than three market days, and you must keep in mind the
decree of the senate, which was as follows: 'If there are any who
transgress against the decrees set out above, a capital charge is to
be brought against them'. You are to engrave this on a bronze tablet
(this also the senate decreed) and are to give orders that it be set
it up where it can most easily be read. And you are to see to it that
such shrines of Bacchus as now exist (if any) are disbanded in
accordance with the above decree within ten days from the time when
you receive these tablets, unless they contain any genuinely sacred
thing. In the territory of the Teuri." - SENATUS CONSULTUM DE
BACCANALIBUS, 186 BC

Today was the celebration of the Bacchanalia until outlawed by the
Senate. The Bacchanalia were wild and mystic festivals of the Roman
god Bacchus. Introduced into Rome from lower Italy by way of Etruria
(c. 200 BC), the Bacchanalia were originally held in secret and
attended by women only. The festivals occurred on three days of the
year in the grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill. Later, admission
to the rites was extended to men and celebrations took place five
times a month. According to Livy, the extension happened in an era
when the leader of the Bacchus cult was Paculla Annia - though it is
now believed that some men had participated before that.

Livy informs us that the rapid spread of the cult, which he claims
indulged in all kinds of crimes and political conspiracies at its
nocturnal meetings, led in 186 BC to a decree of the Senate — the
so-called Senatus consultum de Baccanalibus, inscribed on a bronze
tablet discovered in Apulia in Southern Italy (AD 1640), now at the
Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna — by which the Bacchanalia were
prohibited throughout all Italy except in certain special cases which
must be approved specifically by the Senate. In spite of the severe
punishment inflicted on those found in violation of this decree (Livy
claims there were more executions than imprisonment), the Bacchanalia
survived in Southern Italy long past the repression.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Livy, Senatusconsultum de Baccanalibus, Wikipedia

Salve Cato

We recognize that Nova Roma is open to people of many different
faiths. You chose Orthodox Christianity as your faith. It is one
thing then if you wish to tell us why your faith worships daemones,
whether you call them angeli or otherwise. It is quite another
matter however when you begin to make comments on the faiths of
others as you did below. Dismissing the Gods as "tutelary spirits"
and then claiming that "Belief in tutelary gods or spirits often
reflects a tradition of animism," which is not true, could be
construed as demeaning the Di patres.

Vale
M Moravius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana of
> Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
> Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates were
> local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to be
> present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and

Juvenal

> as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from

Arabic

> lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
> also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described as
> tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as Kotitonttu,
> tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of the
> sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
> tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In

Indonesia, a

> guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
> safeguard them as they sleep.
>
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> SOURCES
>
> Livy, Wikipedia
>

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Horatio Piscino salutem dicit

Cato did not write the material you quoted. It was written by a user over
on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutelary

When you reference a source it doesn't usually mean you copy it in its
entirety. What I am concerned about is potential copyright violation since
Cato has been posting verbatim wikipedia entries for months (if not longer):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License

I'm no lawyer, but it seems plausible that there might be a case of
license/copyright violation.

I know it takes time and effort to send calender posts. But perhaps it
would be better to issue monthly posts with original material (through
original research) instead of taking material from wikipedia.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 10/3/07, marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato
>
> We recognize that Nova Roma is open to people of many different
> faiths. You chose Orthodox Christianity as your faith. It is one
> thing then if you wish to tell us why your faith worships daemones,
> whether you call them angeli or otherwise. It is quite another
> matter however when you begin to make comments on the faiths of
> others as you did below. Dismissing the Gods as "tutelary spirits"
> and then claiming that "Belief in tutelary gods or spirits often
> reflects a tradition of animism," which is not true, could be
> construed as demeaning the Di patres.
>
> Vale
> M Moravius
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Gaius
> Equitius Cato"
>
> <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The Roman religion had dozens of tutelary spirits, such as Diana of
> > Aricia, who watched over a sacred grove at Aricia, or the goddess
> > Levana, who watched over young children. The Lares and Penates were
> > local tutelary deities, as was the genius loci, a spirit said to be
> > present in certain places. Venus is mentioned by Catullus and
> Juvenal
> > as the tutelary deity of Ancona, Italy. A comparable term from
> Arabic
> > lore is a djinn, known in English as a `genie'. Shinto is
> > also a religion whose many spirits, or kami, could be described as
> > tutelary. Finnish mythology had such tutelary spirits as Kotitonttu,
> > tutelary of the home; Pihatonttu (of the yard); Saunatonttu (of the
> > sauna); Tonttu (a generally benign tutelary). Hiisi are a kind of
> > tutelary spirit in mythologies of the Baltic Sea area. In
> Indonesia, a
> > guardian angel may be hung over an infant's crib to supposedly
> > safeguard them as they sleep.
> >
> >
> > Valete bene!
> >
> > Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato C. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

There is no fear of copyright infringement in the case of Wikipedia.
Wikipedia is considered a "free source", and referencing it *as* a
source satisfies any possible question of copyright, since the vast
majority of Wikipedia entries are from multiple sources. Documents
dated before AD 1922, and before AD 1976 without copyright notice, are
in the public domain and therefore not subject to copyright laws. In
the case of the use of specific copyrighted works, the law applies as
follows:

"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use
of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching
(including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or
research, is not an infringement of copyright." - Copyright Act of
1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107

I began referencing specific sources about two years ago when the
question came up then. If, however, there remains sufficient fear of
any infringement, I will certainly cease posting daily and leave it to
those who have the time and resources to research and create
"original" scholarship regarding the information I am passing on.

To my own mind this seems a bit like re-creating the wheel, but I
would certainly bow to the wishes of the People.

Vale bene,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Horatio Piscino salutem dicit
>
> Cato did not write the material you quoted. It was written by a

user over

> on Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutelary
>
> When you reference a source it doesn't usually mean you copy it in its
> entirety. What I am concerned about is potential copyright

violation since

> Cato has been posting verbatim wikipedia entries for months (if not

longer):

>
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License

>
> I'm no lawyer, but it seems plausible that there might be a case of
> license/copyright violation.
>
> I know it takes time and effort to send calender posts. But perhaps it
> would be better to issue monthly posts with original material (through
> original research) instead of taking material from wikipedia.
>
> Vale:
>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

M.Hortensia Modiano Piscino Catonique spd:
I just checked the 'tutelary spirits' article and it is
unsigned and undocumented.*sigh* you cannot trust Wikipedia as a
source.

M. Horatius Piscinus has an excellent monthly calendar at SVR, you
could ask hims for permission to repost.

or
G. Iulius Scaurus was the one who in fufillment of a vow to Venus
originally posted the calendar and an entire year of interesting
links on the ML. You could repost them, if you are genuinely
interested.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior




I will certainly cease posting daily and leave it to

> those who have the time and resources to research and create
> "original" scholarship regarding the information I am passing on.
>
> To my own mind this seems a bit like re-creating the wheel, but I
> would certainly bow to the wishes of the People.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>

Cato M. Hortensiae sal.

I think your dismissal of Wikipedia is a bit too hasty.

Or M. Horatius Piscinus could simply post it here as well. It's good
enough for SVR, surely it's good enough for Nova Roma. If that was
where this wagon was heading anyways, why not just jump to the point?

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M.Hortensia Modiano Piscino Catonique spd:
> I just checked the 'tutelary spirits' article and it is
> unsigned and undocumented.*sigh* you cannot trust Wikipedia as a
> source.
>
> M. Horatius Piscinus has an excellent monthly calendar at SVR, you
> could ask hims for permission to repost.
>

OSD G. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

"Minos aspired to the throne of Krete, but was rebuffed. He claimed,
however, that he had received the sovereignty from the gods, and to
prove it he said that whatever he prayed for would come about. So
while sacrificing to Poseidon, he prayed for a bull to appear from the
depths of the sea, and promised to sacrifice it upon its appearance.
And Poseidon did send up to him a splendid bull. Thus Minos received
the rule, but he sent the bull to his herds and sacrificed another.
Poseidon was angry that the bull was not sacrificed, and turned it
wild. He also devised that Pasiphae should develop a lust for it. In
her passion for the bull she took on as her accomplice an architect
named Daidalos...He built a woden cow on wheels...skinned a real cow,
and sewed the contraption into the skin, and then, after placing
Pasiphae inside, set it in a meadow where the bull normally grazed.
The bull came up and had intercourse with it, as if with a real cow.
Pasiphae gave birth to Asterios, who was called Minotauros. He had the
face of a bull, but was otherwise human. Minos, following certain
oracular instructions, kept him confined and under guard in the
labyrinth. This labyrinth, which Daidalos built, was a cage with
convoluted flextions that disorders debouchment." - Apollodorus, The
Library 3.8-11

"Pasiphae, the wife of Minos, became enamoured of the bull, and
Daidalos, by fashioning a contrivance in the shape of a cow, assisted
Pasiphae to gratify her passion. In explanation of this the myths
offer the following account: before this time it had been the custom
of Minos annually to dedicate to Poseidon the fairest bull born in his
herds and to sacrifice it to the god; but at the time in question
there was born a bull of extraordinary beauty and he sacrificed
another from among those which were inferior, whereupon Poseidon
becoming angry at Minos, caused his wife Pasiphae to become enamoured
of the bull. And by means of the ingenuity of Daidalos Pasiphae had
intercourse with the bull and gave birth to the Minotauros, famed in
the myth. This creature, they say, was of double form, the upper parts
of the body as far as the shoulders being those of a bull and the
remaining parts those of a man. As a place in which to keep this
monstrous thing Daidalos, the story goes, built a labyrinth, the
passage-ways of which were so winding that those unfamiliar with them
had difficulty in making their way out; in this labyrinth the Minotaur
was maintained and here it devoured the seven youths and seven maidens
which were sent to it from Athens, as we have already related." -
Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4.77.1

"He [Theseus] killed the Minotaur in the town of Cnossus." - Hyginus,
Fabulae 38

"The feast called Oschophoria, or the feast of boughs, which to this
day the Athenians celebrate, was then first instituted by Theseus. For
he took not with him the full number of virgins which by lot were to
be carried away, but selected two youths of his acquaintance, of fair
and womanish faces, but of a manly and forward spirit, and having, by
frequent baths, and avoiding the heat and scorching of the sun, with a
constant use of all the ointments and washes and dresses that serve to
the adorning of the head or smoothing the skin or improving the
complexion, in a manner changed them from what they were before, and
having taught them farther to counterfeit the very voice and carriage
and gait of virgins so that there could not be the least difference
perceived, he, undiscovered by any, put them into the number of the
Athenian maids designed for Crete. At his return, he and these two
youths led up a solemn procession, in the same habit that is now worn
by those who carry the vine-branches. Those branches they carry in
honour of Bacchus and Ariadne, for the sake of their story before
related; or rather because they happened to return in autumn, the time
of gathering the grapes. The women, whom they call Deipnopherae, or
supper-carriers, are taken into these ceremonies, and assist at the
sacrifice, in remembrance and imitation of the mothers of the young
men and virgins upon whom the lot fell, for thus they ran about
bringing bread and meat to their children; and because the women then
told their sons and daughters many tales and stories, to comfort and
encourage them under the danger they were going upon, it has still
continued a custom that at this feast old fables and tales should be
told. For these particularities we are indebted to the history of
Demon. There was then a place chosen out, and a temple erected in it
to Theseus, and those families out of whom the tribute of the youth
was gathered were appointed to pay tax to the temple for sacrifices to
him. And the house of the Phytalidae had the overseeing of these
sacrifices, Theseus doing them that honour in recompense of their
former hospitality." - Plutarch, Parallel Lives "Theseus"

In ancient Greece today was the celebration of the Oschophoria. The
Oschophoria was a festival celebrated in Attica, according to some
writers celebrated in honour of Athena and Dionysus, according to
others Dionysus and Ariadne. Said to have been instituted by
Theseus, this was a vintage festival, its name derived from the word
for a branch of a vine with grapes.

The Greek myth states that when Theseus left Athens, he took with him
three girls and two boys dresses as girls. After he killed the
Minotaur in the Labyrinth and returned to Athens he was crowned with a
wreath of olive leaves. However, because his father died he put the
crown on his staff and not on his head. The festival of Dionysus was
being commemorated when he returned, and he placed the two boys that
were dressed like women at the front of the procession. Consequently,
in the procession during the Oschophorian celebrations, two men
dressed like women carried vine-branches from the temple of Dionysus
to the temple of Athena Skira. They were accompanied by a herald with
a wreath wrapped around his staff. Also in the procession were women
who carried the sacred foods for the feast. Some of the meat became a
burnt offering for the gods, with the remainder eaten or divided up
for the participants to take home. When the procession reached the
temple, stories were told and many songs sung. The women usually
prepared the dinner and narrated myths. Athletic games were also
played during the Oschophoria.

Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Apollodorus, Diodorus Siculus, Hyginus, Plutarch, Wikipedia

A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis
S.P.D.

Registration is now open for Avitus¹ Sermo Latinus courses: Sermo
Latinus I, Sermo Latinus II, and combined Sermo Latinus I & II. I highly
recommend these courses to all who are interested in becoming fluent in
reading and/or speaking Latin. Several of us, including Astur, Cordus, and
I, are fairly fluent speakers of Latin as a result of this course, which is
taught by a well-known European Latinist and Roman citizen who brings his
considerable expertise to the course.

The text includes tapes in Latin; both are required prior to
registration. It is bilingual in either Latin/French or Latin/Italian; the
modern languages have been translated into English and Spanish, both
available on the class website. However, the text itself must be purchased
in one of the two languages in which it is published, and acquired prior to
registration. All Sermo classes begin October 15th. I believe that
registration is also open for Rudimenta Latina, which begins on the same
date.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus Tulliae et Avito suis sal.

I wrote to Avitus but he hasn't yet answered my letter. I want to subscribe myself to the combined Sermo Latinus I & II.

My questions: is there a tape in which Avitus recorderded the whole audio material of the book? If there is, I don't want to order the Assimil tape but that of Avitus.

Is there an online English translation of the book?

Have you any other advice which is usefull to know before I start the course?

Gratias!

LENT.

"A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> ha scritto:

A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis
S.P.D.

Registration is now open for Avitus¹ Sermo Latinus courses: Sermo
Latinus I, Sermo Latinus II, and combined Sermo Latinus I & II. I highly
recommend these courses to all who are interested in becoming fluent in
reading and/or speaking Latin. Several of us, including Astur, Cordus, and
I, are fairly fluent speakers of Latin as a result of this course, which is
taught by a well-known European Latinist and Roman citizen who brings his
considerable expertise to the course.

The text includes tapes in Latin; both are required prior to
registration. It is bilingual in either Latin/French or Latin/Italian; the
modern languages have been translated into English and Spanish, both
available on the class website. However, the text itself must be purchased
in one of the two languages in which it is published, and acquired prior to
registration. All Sermo classes begin October 15th. I believe that
registration is also open for Rudimenta Latina, which begins on the same
date.


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete bene Quirites

Today, 4 Oct, marks the ieiunium Cereris, or Fast of Ceres. It is
part of the women's rite of the Sacrum Anniversarium Cereris,
or "annual rituals of Ceres". On 23 Sept. a special ritual for Ceres
was held. What it entailed no one really knows, but a possibility is
that it involved the selection of women who were to participate in
special roles during the Sacrum Anniversarium Cereris. Between 25
Sept. to 4 Oct. the women were to perform ritual purification,
abstinence and fasting (Ovid Met. 10.431-6; Amores III 10 3-14; 43-
8). During this period the women drank agnus castus. This was an
infusion of rosemary and honey. (See Pliny Nat. Hist. 24.59 for more
on its emmenogoguic and antiseptic effects.)

The women were both matrons and maidens (Cicero, In Verr. 2.4.99
mulieres and virgines; Valerius Maximus has 'matres ac filiae
coniugesque et sorores' 1.1.15). Possibly they were paired as
mothers and daughters to represent Ceres and Proserpina. They were
led by a sacerdos Cereris publica populo Romano Quiritibus. A public
priestess of Ceres. Originally a woman was brought from Campania
sometime between 217 and 215 BCE to instruct the Roman matrons on
these rites. Cicero claimed she was Greek and had to come from
either Napoli or Velia (Balb. 55), while elsewhere Cumae or Capua are
indicated as her place of origin. Cicero's characterization of the
rites of Ceres as being Greek is not entirely true. The region had
been overrun by Sabellians, Samnites, and related tribes more than
two-hundred years ealier. There was a strong Greek influence in as
much as Proserpina appears as the Daughter of Ceres, but the cultus
Cereris at Rome was Italic in origin. The rites of the Sacrum
Anniversarium Cereris differ from what is found on the Tavolo Agnone
in Samnite territory, yet they are also different from what is known
about the rites performed at Eleusis. Not long after this festival
was first introduced, Rome acquired Campania. The sacerdos Cereris
was a Roman citizen. Whether she still had to come from Campania is
doubtful as Plutarch said that the highest honor any Roman matron
could aspire to was that of sacerdos Cereris.

In the very early hours of 4 Oct. the women would gather at
crossroads calling out three times for Proserpina, three times
three, "just as in the rites of Isis (Servius Ad Aen. 4.609)."
Vergil speaks of Hecate at this point and says, "Name in the City
crossroads yelled by night," and of "dread avenging sisterhood" (Aen.
4.609-10). The combination of Hecate with Proserpina and Ceres, with
the third Goddess otherwise being Venus, is found in Southern Italy
and Sicily. The women bore torches, like Hecate or Ceres, as they ran
throughout the City. Then after dawn they began to sit and mourn the
loss of Proserpina for the entire day, this portion of the festival
corresponding to the Greek Nesteia.

The following day, Oct. 5, celebrated Ceres' rediscovery of
Proserpina. The Greek counter part is Kalligeneta, or "fair birth".
It is on this day that the women would don pure white robes once more
to go in procession through the streets of Rome (Plutarch Vit Fab.
Max. 18.1-2). The procession was a celebration and also a public
display of female chastity. They wore a mantle of white, held in
place by the woolen fillets of Ceres (Juvenal 6.51). Some, if not
all of the women, would also have been wearing the corona spicea.
There was a close relationship drawn here between the women's
chastity and the fertility of Roman lands. (For more information
see "The Roman Goddess Ceres," Barbette Stanley Spaeth, 1996.)

The third day of the festival celebrated with a thanksgiving
(supplicatio). On 5 Oct., at least two thousand years ago, marked
when the Corona Borealis rose. Virgil, in Georgic I, notes for this
day, "But if it be for wheaten harvest and the hardy spelt, tax the
soil now, to corn ears wholly given, let Atlas' Daughters hide them
in the dawn, the Cretan star, a crown of fire, depart." The same
source gives 24 Sept. as the date on which to begin the first
plowing, the day after the initial rite for Ceres was performed.
Generally we might think of a rite for Ceres in early October to have
been a harvest festival. Here, though, Proserpina represents the
seed as it is sowed, with the promise of a spring harvest. The
supplicatio therefore probably did not offer back the "first fruits"
as mentioned for other rites to Ceres. Instead it would have offered
the desired produce from sowing - possibly flour and bread, and the
very special praementium wreath, made specifically of stalks of spelt
bundled tight and thick (Ovid Fasti 2.519-20; Festus s.v. Praementium)


Apuleius Metamorphoses 11.2

"O blessed Queen of Heaven, whether you are the Lady Ceres who is the
original and motherly source of all fruitful things in earth, who
after finding Your daughter Proserpina, through the great joy which
You did presently conceive, made barren and unfruitful ground to be
plowed and sown..."

Valete et vadete in pace Cereris
M Moravius Piscinus

Cato M. Hortensiae C. Modiano quiritibusque SPD

Ah, I see that he has indeed begun, and so I will leave him to it. It
might have been a bit more polite for him to say, "Why yes, I'd like
to" or something before actually beginning - in recognition of the
fact that I have been doing so - but there you go. Marca Hortensia,
Fabius Modianus, your wish has been granted.

That being said, I have enjoyed posting the calendar over the past
three or so years.

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato:

If you want to post your calender posts then do so. My only concern is that
they are almost solely composed from wikipedia. Instead of cutting and
pasting why not just include the links to the wikipedia posts and offer your
reaction to the wikipedia content. You were not simply using wikipedia as a
source for research you were quoting whole articles -- posting the links
seems more appropriate. It doesn't seem honest when you post material
without indicating what is your original material and what is copies.
Footnotes, endnotes, or some sort of citation other than simply giving
wikipedia and Livy honorable mention at the end. Posting material with the
illusion that it is original, when it is not, is plagiarism. Posting
links is not plagiarism.

Having the fortitude to continue to make these informative posts for such a
sustained period of time is commendable. You seem to think that I want you
to stop doing it. I do not, I only ask that it be composed of original
research with proper citations and not plagiarized from wikipedia. Quoting
classical authors DOES seem appropriate (as you have done) with proper
citation, but not wikipedia entries.

Vale:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 10/4/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato M. Hortensiae C. Modiano quiritibusque SPD
>
> Ah, I see that he has indeed begun, and so I will leave him to it. It
> might have been a bit more polite for him to say, "Why yes, I'd like
> to" or something before actually beginning - in recognition of the
> fact that I have been doing so - but there you go. Marca Hortensia,
> Fabius Modianus, your wish has been granted.
>
> That being said, I have enjoyed posting the calendar over the past
> three or so years.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Apollonius C. Equitio M. Hortensiae M. Moravio sal.

M. Hortensia and M. Moravi, amici mei, I fear you have been rather unfair in your comments. C. Equitius has been publishing his daily calendar for so long that we have all become used to it and it has become a true institution of our community. But I feel you have forgotten that Cato has not been discharging any public duty by doing this. He has simply been a private citizen offering knowledge to other private citizens, just like Ti. Coruncanius did when he sat down in the forum and set up his sign saying 'licet consulere'.

He has had no official mandate which prescribed or circumscribed his choice of subject. Had he wished to publish a daily calendar devoted exclusively to Christian festivals, or feng shui, or cucumbers, he would have been perfectly entitled to do so. And of course we are equally entitled to complain about his choice of subject-matter; but I do not think we should do so in terms and in a tone which implies that he is somehow failing to do something he is obliged to do. When someone gives us a gift we do not want, we do not generally complain about it, because it is still a gift, and he could have given us nothing at all.

And since his calendar has been an entirely voluntary service with no connexion to any public office or public duty, I cannot see that any possible violation of copyright can be anybody's business but his. Nova Roma surely cannot be held responsible for copyright material published in this forum by a member in his private capacity, especially when no one has ever brought the matter to the attention of any person in authority in Nova Roma. The Yahoo terms of service seem to confirm this common-sense conclusion when they say that "all information, data, text, software, music, sound, photographs,
graphics, video, messages, tags, or other materials ("Content"),
whether publicly posted or privately transmitted, are the sole
responsibility of the person from whom such Content originated." Certainly if we are worried about Cato getting himself into trouble we may wish to alert him to the danger, but again I do not think there is any need to do so in a way which implies that he is doing anyone else any harm.


C. Equiti, I would like to thank you for this tireless public benefit you have provided for us for so long that we have sometimes taken it for granted. It has educated and entertained; it has reinforced the use of Roman dates and the observance of Roman festivals in our community; and, perhaps most important of all, it has ensured that we have always known what day it was! I cannot begin to imagine how you have managed to publish a daily e-mail so regularly for such a long time, let alone research and write it, when I sometimes forget even to have lunch every day. I remember how anxious you were even in Rome itself, the home city, amid all the business and activity of probably the largest gathering of Roman citizens in modern history, to get the calendar sent out.

There have been false ends for your calendar before. But if this does turn out to be the end, then perhaps it is a good thing. When one has been providing a public service so long that it is taken for granted, it is perhaps time to stop. If M. Moravius takes over the task, then you may feel happy in the knowledge that you have established a public institution which will pass from person to person, and that he will have to live up to your splendid example. I have no doubt that your liberality will find another outlet, one that will remind the Roman people how much we, like our ancient predecessors, depend on the private munificence of our leading citizens. Macte virtute C. Equiti!



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

Salve Corde, et salvete omnes,

"A. Apollonius Cordus" <a_apollonius_cordus@...> writes:
[...]

> Nova Roma surely cannot be held responsible for copyright material
> published in this forum by a member in his private capacity,
> especially when no one has ever brought the matter to the attention
> of any person in authority in Nova Roma.

Not to disagree with Cordus' general conclusions, but I must say that
during my two years as Censor I received several messages from people
concerned about possible copyright violations in Cato's daily posts.
I discussed these matters with Cato, and he made some modifications to
his posts to indicate the source of his material.

As long as he's taking material from Wikipedia, he's on sound legal
ground. Wikipedia content is released under a Creative Commons
license which eliminates any questions of copyright infringement.

Other than that, my thanks to Cato for his daily efforts on our behalf.

Vale, et valete,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

My previous message ought also to have been addressed to C. Buteo, since it was he who raised the issue of copyright. Apologies for the omission.



___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo suo quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque omnibus S.P.D.
>
>
> Cn. Lentulus Tulliae et Avito suis sal.
>
> I wrote to Avitus but he hasn't yet answered my letter. I want to subscribe
> myself to the combined Sermo Latinus I & II.
>
> ATS: Avitus has been very busy preparing the class sites for
> registration; students must collect their marks, then be removed; all posts
> must be removed, and all materials set to be hidden, one lesson at a time.
> This is rather time-consuming, and we also have a number of matters to discuss
> on the faculty list, some of which arose while Avitus was away over the
> summer, so he has been catching up and in effect carpet-bombing the list.
> Thus we have been quite occupied. You may not hear from him for a while...I
> haven¹t had a direct response to some of my posts, either.
>
> You should be able to register now...he said on the faculty list that
> everything was ready, and that he would no longer remove those who attempted
> to register for Rudimenta before the site was prepared. Classes start the
> 15th...
>
> My questions: is there a tape in which Avitus recorderded the whole audio
> material of the book? If there is, I don't want to order the Assimil tape but
> that of Avitus.
>
> ATS: No, but he has sound files of the exercises onsite. The tapes
> which accompany the text are necessary for homework and tests, if nothing
> else. He feels that such a recording would be a violation of copyright, and
> he may well be right, though since the Desessard text we use in the Sermo
> courses is going out of print, we may look into preserving it ourselves.
>
> Is there an online English translation of the book?
>
> ATS: Not in that format, but we have translated it. The translations are
> available on the class sites, and ONLY on the class sites.
>
> Have you any other advice which is usefull to know before I start the course?
>
> ATS: Fortasse privatim...sed labora et ora.
>
> Gratias!
>
> ATS: Flocci est.
>
> LENT.
>
> Vale, et valete!
>
>
>
> "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@... <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com>
> > ha scritto:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis
> S.P.D.
>
> Registration is now open for Avitus¹ Sermo Latinus courses: Sermo
> Latinus I, Sermo Latinus II, and combined Sermo Latinus I & II. I highly
> recommend these courses to all who are interested in becoming fluent in
> reading and/or speaking Latin. Several of us, including Astur, Cordus, and
> I, are fairly fluent speakers of Latin as a result of this course, which is
> taught by a well-known European Latinist and Roman citizen who brings his
> considerable expertise to the course.
>
> The text includes tapes in Latin; both are required prior to
> registration. It is bilingual in either Latin/French or Latin/Italian; the
> modern languages have been translated into English and Spanish, both
> available on the class website. However, the text itself must be purchased
> in one of the two languages in which it is published, and acquired prior to
> registration. All Sermo classes begin October 15th. I believe that
> registration is also open for Rudimenta Latina, which begins on the same
> date.
>
> ---------------------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvets Sis Marce Horate et Quirites;
in honour of Ceres, I'm posting here the Orphic hymn to
Ceres, it's out of copyright so it can be used publically & shared
with everyone. Or you can change the wording to write your own
Carmen. Both Marcus Horatius and Ti. Flavius Aquila have hortus
Cereri, gardens dedicate to Dea Ceres.

HYMN TO CERES

O Universal mother, Ceres fam'd
August, the source of wealth, and various nam'd:
Great nurse, all-bounteous, blessed and divine,
Who joy'st in peace, to nourish corn is thine:
Goddess of seed, of fruits abundant, fair,
Harvest and threshing, are thy constant care;

Only-begotten, much-producing queen,
All flowers are thine and fruits of lovely green.
Bright Goddess, come, with Summer's rich increase
Swelling and pregnant, leading smiling Peace;

and here's the link: it's much longer:)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hoo/hoo44.htm

---Salvete bene Quirites

>
> Today, 4 Oct, marks the ieiunium Cereris, or Fast of Ceres. It is
> part of the women's rite of the Sacrum Anniversarium Cereris,
> or "annual rituals of Ceres". On 23 Sept. a special ritual for

Ceres

> was held.
>
> Apuleius Metamorphoses 11.2
>
> "O blessed Queen of Heaven, whether you are the Lady Ceres who is

the

> original and motherly source of all fruitful things in earth, who
> after finding Your daughter Proserpina, through the great joy

which

> You did presently conceive, made barren and unfruitful ground to

be

> plowed and sown..."
>
> Valete et vadete in pace Cereris
> M Moravius Piscinus
>

EDICT XV MMDCCLX

Ex offico Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

All Propraetors are reminded that your annual report is due to the
Senate by Kal. Nov (Nov. 1) 2760.

It would also be helpful if each Propraetor would indicate whether or
not they wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office
come February of 2761 A.U.C .



The pertinent legislation is listed below

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html
<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html>

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html
<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html>

Given by my hand on the ante diem IV Non. Oct MMDCCLX A.U.C. ( October
4, 2760 A.U.C.), at 23:22 Roman time in the consulship of L. Arminius
Faustus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis
S.P.D.

Below is the Spanish version of a message Avitus has just sent to the
Latin sodalitas; the French version of Desessard¹s Assimil is now
unavailable on the Assimil site. That is the only version acceptable for
our courses, so please make sure that you order that version, not the new
one with a female author, if you intend to take any Sermo Latinus course.

Valete.


------ Forwarded Message
From: "A. Gratius Avitus"

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:00:40 -0000

Subject: [Latinitas] Ultimas noticias sobre el método de Desessard





Avitus Latinistis optimis suís S·P·D

Tras casi medio siglo de servicio, Assimil ha retirado finalmente de su web
http://www.assimil.com/
el maravilloso método de latín de Desessard "Lingua Latina sine molestia" y
lo ha
substituido por otro escrito por Isabelle Ducos-Filippi llamado simplemente
"Le latin".

Recordamos a nuestros futuros alumnos de Sermo Latinus en la Academia Thules
que sólo
el método de Desessard es válido para seguir este curso con nosotros.

Nos dijeron que seguirían vendiendo el método de Desessard mientras les
quedaran
existencias, pero desde luego ya no lo ofrecen a través de su web. Los
futuros alumnos
tienen que ponerse en contacto con ellos directamente para especificar que
quieren la
versión de Desessard, o si no recurrir a otros proveedores que puedan tener
todavía
ejemplares entre sus existencias, o dirigirse al comercio de segunda mano.

Pedimos disculpas por este inconveniente y lamentamos profundamente el curso
de los
acontecimientos.

Esto por lo que respecta a la versión francesa del método, por cierto; pues
todavía venden
a través de su web la versión italiana de Desessard, que vale lo mismo ya
que, en cualquier
caso, proporcionaremos una traducción de trabajo al español a quienes lo
necesiten, y el
material de audio es exactamente el mismo.

Curate ut valeatis omnes!




------ End of Forwarded Message



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cato

You neglected to mention the Sacrum Anniversum Cereris, which is a
very significant and holy festival of the religio Romana, and so I
added my own contribution to your efforts. And I shall continue to
post from time to time on the religio Romana. You sound anxious to
give up what you started. If that is your wish, then do so. You
need not use me however as your excuse.

Vale et vade in Deos
Piscinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato M. Hortensiae C. Modiano quiritibusque SPD
>
> Ah, I see that he has indeed begun, and so I will leave him to it.

It

> might have been a bit more polite for him to say, "Why yes, I'd like
> to" or something before actually beginning - in recognition of the
> fact that I have been doing so - but there you go. Marca Hortensia,
> Fabius Modianus, your wish has been granted.
>
> That being said, I have enjoyed posting the calendar over the past
> three or so years.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>

A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis
S.P.D.

This is the English version of Avitus¹ post to the Latin sodalitas.
Please note that the original French version of the Assimil text by C.
Desessard, the one used in the Sermo Latinus classes, is apparently
unavailable from the Assimil site, and must be either specially requested or
obtained from other sources. I urge anyone interested in these courses to
acquire this text immediately; it is only a matter of time before it becomes
totally unavailable. Even if one is not planning on registering for the
courses, it is a good text for learning spoken Latin, and gaining fluency in
both reading and writing in Latin.

Valete.


------ Forwarded Message
From: "A. Gratius Avitus"

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:00:21 -0000

Subject: [Latinitas] Latest news about Desessard's method





Avitus Latinistis optimis suís S·P·D

After almost half a century of service, Assimil have finally withdrawn
Desessard's
wonderful Latin method "Lingua Latina sine molestia" from their website
http://www.assimil.com/
and substituted it with another one by Isabelle Ducos-Filippi called just
"Le latin".

We remind prospective students of the Sermo Latinus courses at the Academia
Thules that
only Desessard's method is valid to follow this course with us.

We were told they would continue to sell Desessard's method for as long as
they had
stock, but they are certainly no longer offering this through their website.
Prospective
students therefore need to contact them directly to specify they want
Desessard's version,
or else resort to other providers who may still have copies in stock, or
look for second
hand commerce.

We apologise for this inconvenience and deeply regret this turn of events.

This is as regards the French version of the method, by the way: they are
still selling
through their website the Italian version of Dessessard's, which is just as
good as we will
in any case be providing a working translation into English to those who
need it, and the
audio material is exactly the same.

Curate ut valeatis omnes!



____________________________________________________________________

VIVAT LATINITAS! VIVAT NOVA ROMA!
____________________________________________________________________





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
there was a posting on the Bacchanalia, supposedly 'the wild
and mystic festivals of the Roman god Bacchus.'

Actually the ancient Roman god was Liber, known as Liber
Pater.Venerable 'Father Liber' the god of germination. He became
merged with Greek Dionysus under the name Bacchus, but the rites of
Bacchus in Italy were quite different from the orgiastic ones of
Greece.

Collegia, confraternities celebrated Bacchus with dinner parties, and
usually acting out episodes from the life of Dionysus with actors. His
great importance has to do with his death and resurrection. There were
mysteries of Dionysus with connections to eternal life.

The political affair of the Bacchanlia, is a different matter. Livy
reported on unusual changes to the rites of Bacchus & these groups
were prosecuted very harshly. But modern scholars now see this as a
problem of politics and unregulated groups which Romans were always
leery of. The cult of Cybele was regulated very closely by the
decemviri, the Roman authorities in charge of foreign cults.

this is a small discussion of where politics and religion again
intertwine in Rome. Here is a NRwiki article I wrote on Liber Pater:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Liber

bene valete in pacem Cereri
M. Hortensia Maior

Salve Cato!

Alas amice, novaroman progress once again goes "boink!" or maybe
that's "oink!" and whatever the sound of rending is. LOL Take heart in
this non-Roman indignity you too often face here- hopefully you are
freed up for more valuable pursuits. Your long and constant work on the
calendar days of Nova Roma was appreciated I'm sure- the manacled
masses here would say as much if they were free to. But as we both
know, they are not. In the days where an open source such as wikipedia
is under suspicion for cosmic defamation while even magistrates go
unlauded for their contributions- what use for a calendar anyway, eh? A
scratch on the cell wall will do! ;)

Vale bene,
L. Fidelius Graecus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> Cato M. Hortensiae C. Modiano quiritibusque SPD
>
> Ah, I see that he has indeed begun, and so I will leave him to it. It
> might have been a bit more polite for him to say, "Why yes, I'd like
> to" or something before actually beginning - in recognition of the
> fact that I have been doing so - but there you go. Marca Hortensia,
> Fabius Modianus, your wish has been granted.
>
> That being said, I have enjoyed posting the calendar over the past
> three or so years.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato

Salvete omnes,

I'll be away from my computer until next Wednesday. I'm off to Tombstone, Arizona for a long, but all too short, weekend.

Valete omnes,
Artoria Marcella

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato M. Hortensiae sal.

You wrote:

"He [Liber Pater] became merged with Greek Dionysus under the name
Bacchus, but the rites of Bacchus in Italy were quite different from
the orgiastic ones of Greece."

but Livy writes:

"A low-born Greek went into Etruria first of all, but did not bring
with him any of the numerous arts which that most accomplished of all
nations has introduced amongst us for the cultivation of mind and
body. He was a hedge-priest and wizard, not one of those who imbue
men's minds with error by professing to teach their superstitions
openly for money, but a hierophant of secret nocturnal mysteries. At
first these were divulged to only a few; then they began to spread
amongst both men and women, and the attractions of wine and feasting
increased the number of his followers. When they were heated with wine
and the nightly commingling of men and women, those of tender age with
their seniors, had extinguished all sense of modesty, debaucheries of
every kind commenced; each had pleasures at hand to satisfy the lust
he was most prone to. Nor was the mischief confined to the promiscuous
intercourse of men and women; false witness, the forging of seals and
testaments, and false informations, all proceeded from the same
source, as also poisonings and murders of families where the bodies
could not even be found for burial. Many crimes were committed by
treachery; most by violence, which was kept secret, because the cries
of those who were being violated or murdered could not be heard owing
to the noise of drums and cymbals...

From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber..." - Livy, "History of Rome"
V.39.8ff

This, to my mind, justifies the epithets "wild" and "mystic". Liber
Pater has his own festival, the Liberalia, very much unlike the
Bacchanalia.

Vale bene,

Cato

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

From the book, "As the Romans Did (2nd edition)," by Jo-Ann Shelton
(professor of Classics at University of California) commenting on Livy:

"The rumors about lewd behavior, kidnappings, forgeries, and murders were
probably just that -- rumors based on a misinterpretation of mysterious cult
activities. Similar stories were later spread about the Christians. Livy,
the author of the passage translated here, has, however, reported these
rumors as historical fact; his exaggeration of the danger of the situation
probably reflects the perceptions of the upper class." (394)

There is a book out on Liber Pater (titled Liber Pater) by Adrien Bruhl
written in French (I believe in 1953). I have read reviews of it and
comments about the text itself. Interesting. I can sort through some
German, but not French (at least not yet).

Livy is not infallible. He was writing for his audience as Shelton
indicated. M. J. Boyd in his review of Bruhl's "Liber Pater" wrote,
"Expressions of religious devotion are difficult to assess." (From The
Classical Review Vol 5, No. 1, Mar. 1955).

Furthermore, Robert Rousselle in his paper "Liber-Dionysus in Early Roman
Drama" [The Classical Journal, Vol. 82, No. 3. (Feb. - Mar., 1987)] writes:
"Most authors of handbooks on Roman religion simply assert that Dionysus was
identified with Liber as early as the introduction of the Aventine triad in
496. Such is the position of Altheim, Rose, and Wissowa." He continues
with:

"Whether Liber was identified with Dionysus in 496 is immaterial, for by 186
syncretism had already begun. The evidence, though fragmentary, is explicit.
Most important are the remains of Naevius' Lycurgus, which
appeared between 235 and 201.9 The play is an adaptation of one of the
legends of Dionysus, the confrontation between the god and the Thracian king
Lycurgus. Yet a fragment shows the king's adversary in this version to be
Liber: "cave sis tuam contendas iram contra cum ira Liberi" (Trag. F 39
Ribbeck2).l0 In another the followers of Liber are called "Thyrsigerae
Bacchae" (Trag. F 34- 35 Ribbeck2)."

The Nova Roman Cato's comments of [This, to my mind, justifies the epithets
"wild" and "mystic".] If based solely upon Livy is probably not a good
conclusion. Additionally, his comment of [Liber Pater has his own festival,
the Liberalia, very much unlike the Bacchanalia.] is irrelevant, a cursory
look through the pages of wikipedia will tell you that! [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus%5d

Valete:

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
Pontifex

On 10/5/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato M. Hortensiae sal.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "He [Liber Pater] became merged with Greek Dionysus under the name
> Bacchus, but the rites of Bacchus in Italy were quite different from
> the orgiastic ones of Greece."
>
> but Livy writes:
>
> "A low-born Greek went into Etruria first of all, but did not bring
> with him any of the numerous arts which that most accomplished of all
> nations has introduced amongst us for the cultivation of mind and
> body. He was a hedge-priest and wizard, not one of those who imbue
> men's minds with error by professing to teach their superstitions
> openly for money, but a hierophant of secret nocturnal mysteries. At
> first these were divulged to only a few; then they began to spread
> amongst both men and women, and the attractions of wine and feasting
> increased the number of his followers. When they were heated with wine
> and the nightly commingling of men and women, those of tender age with
> their seniors, had extinguished all sense of modesty, debaucheries of
> every kind commenced; each had pleasures at hand to satisfy the lust
> he was most prone to. Nor was the mischief confined to the promiscuous
> intercourse of men and women; false witness, the forging of seals and
> testaments, and false informations, all proceeded from the same
> source, as also poisonings and murders of families where the bodies
> could not even be found for burial. Many crimes were committed by
> treachery; most by violence, which was kept secret, because the cries
> of those who were being violated or murdered could not be heard owing
> to the noise of drums and cymbals...
>
> From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
> intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
> added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
> practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
> each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
> dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
> sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
> of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
> predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
> the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
> blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber..." - Livy, "History of Rome"
> V.39.8ff
>
> This, to my mind, justifies the epithets "wild" and "mystic". Liber
> Pater has his own festival, the Liberalia, very much unlike the
> Bacchanalia.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Fabio Modiano omnibusque SPD.

Salvete omnes.

This brings up at least one interesting question, actually:

Which is more important: how the Romans *felt* or how we *think* they
should have felt? In other words, the modern scholarly research on
what the Bacchantes may or may not *actually have done* means little
when considering what the Romans themselves *thought* was being done,
and how they reacted to it.

Even that being said, the easy dismissal of the impact of the
Bacchanal rites on Roman society and public order does not jibe with
the facts of the Senatus Consultum de Bacchanalibus of 186 BC, i.e.,

"Let no-one be minded to make any man or woman an official or a
temporary official. Henceforth let no-one be minded to conspire,
collude, plot or make vows in common among themselves or to pledge
loyalty to each other. Let none of them be minded to hold sacred
rites in secret...[l]et no group of more than five people in all,
counting both men and women, be minded to hold sacred rites; and let
no more than two men or three women be minded to be present, unless
authorised by the Urban Praetor and the senate as above."

These are very specific restrictions issued against very specific
activities. That these restrictions would be thrown out in a fit of
hysterical over-reaction to activities which were not taking place
seems unlikely. "Expressions of religious devotion" may indeed be
difficult to assess, but it is much easier when considering
activities which disturb the public order. The Senatus Consultum de
Bacchanalibus reflects a legal reaction to public disorder which
followed from some kind of activity involving the Bacchanalia; since
the celebration of the Bacchanalia without any doubt whatsoever
involved the use of a great deal of wine, it is not a difficult
stretch to imagine scenes of public drunkenness, debauchery, and lewd
behavior. These three kinds of activities occur even *without* a
celebration dedicated to a god to support them.

Valete bene,

Cato

Salvete omnes


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> From the book, "As the Romans Did (2nd edition)," by Jo-Ann Shelton
> (professor of Classics at University of California) commenting on

Livy:

>
> "The rumors about lewd behavior, kidnappings, forgeries, and murders

were

> probably just that -- rumors based on a misinterpretation of

mysterious cult

> activities. Similar stories were later spread about the Christians.

The reference here is to the complaints made by Caecilius:

"men, I say, of a reprobate, unlawful, and desperate faction, should
rage against the gods? who, having gathered together from the lowest
dregs the more unskilled, and women, credulous and, by the facility of
their sex, yielding, establish a herd of a profane conspiracy, which
is leagued together by nightly meetings, and solemn fasts and inhuman
meats—not by any sacred rite, but by that which requires expiation—a
people skulking and shunning the light, silent in public, but
garrulous in corners. They despise the temples as dead-houses, they
reject the gods, they laugh at sacred things; wretched, they pity, if
they are allowed, the priests; half naked themselves, they despise
honours and purple robes. Oh, wondrous folly and incredible audacity!

"And now, as wickeder things advance more fruitfully, and abandoned
manners creep on day by day, those abominable shrines of an impious
assembly are maturing themselves throughout the whole world. Assuredly
this confederacy ought to be rooted out and execrated. They know one
another by secret marks and insignia, and they love one another almost
before they know one another. Everywhere also there is mingled among
them a certain religion of lust, and they call one another
promiscuously brothers and sisters, that even a not unusual debauchery
may by the intervention of that sacred name become incestuous: it is
thus that their vain and senseless superstition glories in crimes....
and he who explains their ceremonies by reference to a man punished by
extreme suffering for his wickedness, and to the deadly wood of the
cross, appropriates fitting altars for reprobate and wicked men, that
they may worship what they deserve. Now the story about the initiation
of young novices is as much to be detested as it is well known. An
infant covered over with meal, that it may deceive the unwary, is
placed before him who is to be stained with their rites: this infant
is slain by the young pupil, who has been urged on as if to harmless
blows on the surface of the meal, with dark and secret wounds.
Thirstily—O horror!—they lick up its blood; eagerly they divide its
limbs. By this victim they are pledged together; with this
consciousness of wickedness they are covenanted to mutual silence.
Such sacred rites as these are more foul than any sacrileges. And of
their banqueting it is well known all men speak of it everywhere; even
the speech of our Cirtensian testifies to it. On a solemn day they
assemble at the feast, with all their children, sisters, mothers,
people of every sex and of every age. There, after much feasting, when
the fellowship has grown warm, and the fervour of incestuous lust has
grown hot with drunkenness, a dog that has been tied to the chandelier
is provoked, by throwing a small piece of offal beyond the length of a
line by which he is bound, to rush and spring; and thus the conscious
light being overturned and extinguished in the shameless darkness, the
connections of abominable lust involve them in the uncertainty of
fate. Although not all in fact, yet in consciousness all are alike
incestuous, since by the desire of all of them everything is sought
for which can happen in the act of each individual." ~ Minucius
Felix, 'Octavius' 8.4-5; 9.1-8


I suppose, following Cato's logic, that there must have been some
truth behind these rumors as well, justifying, therefore, the
restrictions placed on various Christian groups when they threatened
the public order. There were indeed certain Christian sects that did
engage in orgiastic rituals, lewd, lascivious, and incestuous
behavior. Even today, just the other week, there was a sect leader
convicted for forcing a fourteen year old girl to marry her first
cousin in an illegal polygamous marriage. That is not to say that all
Christians believe in polygamy or incest. Nor in the time of
Caecilius did all Christian sects practice some things to which he
referred, and it is doubtful whether any practiced other things they
were rumored to have done. But Cato doesn't seem to have grasped the
difference in this one particular instance, where Livy clearly posed
that the original rites had been corrupted and perverted by wicked
individuals, and that the cultus of Liber was quite different from how
he posed it. I see no reason why this forum should become a place to
perpetuate falsehoods and rumors about the religion faiths of others.
If anything this forum should be a place to clarify our differences in
a reasoned manner.

Vadete in pace Deorum
M Moravius Piscinus

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Dum tempus habemus operemur bonum.

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis
est: ludi divo Augusto et Fortunae Reduci committuntur.

Today, 5 Oct., is one of three days when the mundus was opened. The
two other days were 24 August and 5 November. As part of the
Foundation ritual, the quadrata had been established atop the
Palatine. At its center was dug the mundus, a concave pit that Cato
said represented the counterpart to the concave vault of the Heavens
above (Festus 1.c). Popular belief was that this pit was covered for
most of the year by the lapis manalis (Festus s. v.). When opened
the entrance way to the infernal regions lay opened as well: "Mundus
cum patet, Deorum tristium atque inferum ianua patet
(Macrobius, 'Saturnalia' 1.16.18)." Offerings were therefore placed
in the mundus for Maiores nostrum. It was a night when it was
believed that the dead emerged to commune with the living.

What the ancients called the World, or mundus, we would today equate
with the solar system. The world, as they understood it, consisted
of the seven planets - Sol, Luna, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and
Saturn, revolving around the earth under the celestial sphere of
stars. The "Underworld" was essentially the stars lying below the
celestial equator. You can see this in some ways in the Egyptian
Book of Coming Forth where the journey to the Underworld is described
as a celestial journey. In the poem written by Parmenides of Velia,
he describes his journey to the Underworld to meet with the Goddess
who must not be named (Persephone), guided by the Daughters of the
Sun on a chariot, as passing through the Gates of Justice - all with
celestial references. Similarly, shamanistic initiations in
Australia, Central Asia and South America involved journeys to the
Underworld that resulted into heavenly ascents (See Mircea
Eliade's "Shamanism: Archaic Tequniques of Ecstacy," 1964 ISBN 0-691-
11942-2). The religio Romana, coming as it did from an ecstatic
tradition, differs from shamanism, but retains certain parallel
concepts and experiences common in religions traditions the world
over. The mundus, located at the religious center of the City, is
one such example.


Today also celebrated the dies natalis of the Temple of divus
Augustus and Fortuna Redux (CIL 9, 4192).

Elsewhere, at Puteoli, Campania, we can also note this date, 5
October 134 CE as the first recorded taurobolium. [So much for HBO
Rome depicting the rite nearly two-hundred years early.] This date is
a festival for Venus Caelistis, otherwise known as Dea Syria, and it
was in Her honor that this sacrifice was made.

CIL 10, 1596 (p 1008) = ILS 4271:
[T. Vibio Varo] Lucio Iulio Urso Serviano consulibus III Nonas
Octobres ecitium taurobolium Veneris Caelestae et pantelium Herennia
Fortunata inperio deae [3] per Tiberium Claudium Felicem sacerdotem
iterata est


Today's thought, from Epictetus, 'Echeiridion' I.1:

Of existing things some are in our power, others not in our power. In
our power are conception, effort, desire, aversion and in a word
whatever are our actions; but not in our power are the body,
property, reputation, rulers and in a word whatever are not our
actions.

"Also things in our power are by nature free, unhindered, unimpeded,
but things not in our power are weak, slavish, hindered, belonging to
others.

"So remember, that if what is by nature slavish you think free and
what is others' your own, you will be hindered, you will mourn, you
will be disturbed, and you will blame both gods and humans, but if
you think only yours is yours, and another's, just as it is,
another's, no one will ever compel you, no one will hinder you, you
will not blame anyone, nor accuse someone, not one thing will you do
unwilling, no one will harm you, you will have no enemy, for you will
suffer no harm from anyone."

Valete optime et vadete in pace Deorum

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Horatio Piscino salutem dicit

"I see no reason why this forum should become a place to perpetuate
falsehoods and rumors about the religion faiths of others. If anything this
forum should be a place to clarify our differences in a reasoned manner."

Agreed. Just because Livy speculates that something was a certain way
doesn't make it true -- even if the Patricians of ancient Rome wanted to
believe a specific way also doesn't mean their belief was founded in truth.
It is highly likely that the Liber/Baccus cult was just as nonthreatening to
the security of Rome as the Christian sect was in its advent. However,
suspicion and conjecture painted both the Liber/Baccus cult and the
Christian sects in a similar way. If we reject one as an absurd conclusion
then its seems reasonable to speculate the other (in this case the cult of
Liber/Baccus) was equally absurd.

Vale:

Modianus

On 10/5/07, marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I suppose, following Cato's logic, that there must have been some
> truth behind these rumors as well, justifying, therefore, the
> restrictions placed on various Christian groups when they threatened
> the public order. There were indeed certain Christian sects that did
> engage in orgiastic rituals, lewd, lascivious, and incestuous
> behavior. Even today, just the other week, there was a sect leader
> convicted for forcing a fourteen year old girl to marry her first
> cousin in an illegal polygamous marriage. That is not to say that all
> Christians believe in polygamy or incest. Nor in the time of
> Caecilius did all Christian sects practice some things to which he
> referred, and it is doubtful whether any practiced other things they
> were rumored to have done. But Cato doesn't seem to have grasped the
> difference in this one particular instance, where Livy clearly posed
> that the original rites had been corrupted and perverted by wicked
> individuals, and that the cultus of Liber was quite different from how
> he posed it. I see no reason why this forum should become a place to
> perpetuate falsehoods and rumors about the religion faiths of others.
> If anything this forum should be a place to clarify our differences in
> a reasoned manner.
>
> Vadete in pace Deorum
> M Moravius Piscinus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lentulus Tulliae praetrici sal.

Thank you very much for your response. Incidentally, I have just now realized that I believed that I wrote this to the Latinitas list, and this is the ML. Sorry for that.

Valetudinem tuam conserves!

CN. LENT.


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, leg. pro praet., rogator, accensus C. Equitio Catoni praetori, M. Moravio, C. Buteoni ces., Horensiae Maiori sal.:

Salvete! Et salve, Cato!

I feel it necessary to express my bad feeling because of the treatment that you have received, Gai Cato, praetor amplissime. With your efforts posting the Roman calendar you do deserve honor and appreciation - and not criticism and unpoliteness. As for me, I give thank you for you kind services for the citizenry! I ask you to continue it, if you still have the appetite - and when I say that, I think I speak in the name of most of us.

Viri clarissimi et Hortensia clarissima! With all due respect, I say, with a little more politeness and amiability, Nova Roma would be richer with a better common feeling and with a "Calendar Boy".


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit

Spare me the rhetoric. Cato is a grown adult and should be able to take
criticism, if he wants to post material from Wikipedia without proper
citation then don't let MY criticism become an impediment. My criticisms
thus far are what they are. Cato can take them or leave them. I don't
consider my comments negative or unappreciative, they simply are.

Vale:

Modianus

On 10/5/07, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, leg. pro praet., rogator, accensus C. Equitio
> Catoni praetori, M. Moravio, C. Buteoni ces., Horensiae Maiori sal.:
>
> Salvete! Et salve, Cato!
>
> I feel it necessary to express my bad feeling because of the treatment
> that you have received, Gai Cato, praetor amplissime. With your efforts
> posting the Roman calendar you do deserve honor and appreciation - and not
> criticism and unpoliteness. As for me, I give thank you for you kind
> services for the citizenry! I ask you to continue it, if you still have the
> appetite - and when I say that, I think I speak in the name of most of us.
>
> Viri clarissimi et Hortensia clarissima! With all due respect, I say, with
> a little more politeness and amiability, Nova Roma would be richer with a
> better common feeling and with a "Calendar Boy".
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato C. Lentulo F. Modiano omnibusque SPD

No, Modianus, what your comments (regarding "proper citation" &c.)
have been shown to be is *wrong*. Amply, and clearly. Yet you
persist. Is this honorable, respectful, or dignified?

Lentule, rhetoric is a noble and very Roman practice - one of the most
Roman practices of all. I say keep it up :-)

Cordus is right; I've done it long enough and let M. Piscinus take it
on; since (if M. Hortensia is correct) he posts it on SVR anyways it
should not be an overly burdensome task for him. He is intelligent,
learned and will no doubt carry on a tradition begun by Iulius Scaurus
admirably.

Valete,

Cato

>
> Scholastica Lentulo suo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
> Lentulus Tulliae praetrici sal.
>
> Thank you very much for your response.
>
> ATS: Flocci est.
>
>
> Incidentally, I have just now realized that I believed that I wrote this to
> the Latinitas list, and this is the ML. Sorry for that.
>
> ATS: Though it happens that I posted the information to the ML as it has
> a much larger membership, and seems to be read more often by same. It is
> important for this wider audience to know how to register for our courses as
> well. Moreover, Avitus isn¹t on the ML, so I do the honors for him...
>
> Valetudinem tuam conserves!
>
> ATS: Spero! Tandem ambo collocuti sunt, et experimentum iussum est;
> praeterea ille peritior tradidit se nonaginta pro centum compertum habere id
> non tale esse qualis mentionem fecimus.
>
> CN. LENT.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> ---------------------------------
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve bene Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:
<snipped>

> Cordus is right; I've done it long enough and let M. Piscinus take it
> on; since (if M. Hortensia is correct) he posts it on SVR anyways it
> should not be an overly burdensome task for him. He is intelligent,
> learned and will no doubt carry on a tradition begun by Iulius

Scaurus

> admirably.
>

Thank you, Cato, for your confidence in me. I believe it was Gryllus
Graecus who first began posting on the Roman calendar, doing an
excellent job on explaining its feriae. In the past I have made
similar posts at Ancient Worlds, SVR and elsewhere. Those, however,
would not make up for the interesting readings that you brought with
your posts.

For the time being I shall attempt to fill the role that you took on
and give you a period of relief. However, as should be well known by
now, I am not always available to be making daily posts here in Nova
Roma or anywhere. Either you or another will be welcomed to continue
the calendar posts.

You can find one of my calendars at the Temple Religio Romana
http://www.religioromana.net/calendar/romancalendar.htm An earlier
version is at SVR. Then too there is always Rogue Classicism
http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism/

Vale et vade in Deos
M Piscinus

M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni spd;
Cato, there is a reading list over at the nrwiki precisely for
this reason.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum


You are a magistrate of high office and a long-term citizen. I
strongly suggest you pick up Beard & North's 'Religions of Rome'
Vol. 1 & 2 where there is exactly this discussion of Liber, Bacchus
and the Bacchanalia. Liber and Bacchus were not separate gods in
Italy with separate festivals.

The Roman way of worshipping the gods was very different from that
of the Greeks. Another culture, another view of the world, which you
don't understand. But we can all acquire it.

There is a very good reason to discuss and acquire Romanitas, this
leads us to act in appropriately Roman ways. Unregulated Foreign
cults, were a source of anxiety to Romans. Do you know about the
expulsion of the Chaldeans, Sabazeans from Rome in 139 BCE ?
bene vale in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

Additionally for those with an interest I'd like to recommend
"Politics and Religion in the Bacchanalian Affair of 186 BCS" S.A.
Takacs"
Harvard Studies in Classical Philology,2000

>
> "He [Liber Pater] became merged with Greek Dionysus under the name
> Bacchus, but the rites of Bacchus in Italy were quite different

from

> the orgiastic ones of Greece."
>
> but Livy writes:
>
> ">
> This, to my mind, justifies the epithets "wild" and "mystic".

Liber

> Pater has his own festival, the Liberalia, very much unlike the
> Bacchanalia.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>

Cato:

"No, Modianus, what your comments (regarding "proper citation" &c.) have
been shown to be is *wrong*."

Wrong in your mind perhaps. You DO cut and paste from wikipedia and then
list that you used it as a source. You don't make the distinction that the
material is cut and pasted wikipedia material. It is not original
research. You would be more honest by posting links to wikipedia.

"Amply, and clearly. Yet you persist. Is this honorable, respectful, or
dignified?"

I persist in what I indicated above. Is it honorable to post material as
your own without proper citation? At the university I attend I would be
thrown out for plagerism if I indicated I used wikipedia as a "source"
without citation and verbatim. Plagerism is, "a piece of writing that has
been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work." [
www.dictionary.com]

The positive act of presenting a calender is a good action. However, if
that action is executed in a way that is questionable then it brings into
question the action itself. Is plagerism honorable, respectful, or
dignified? You have a hundred people come out and post how happy they are
that you made these calender posts. You can have people sing your praises.
But it doesn't change the "ample and clear" fact that you presented material
written by other people as your own -- either intentionally or carelessly
doesn't matter.

According to Wikipedia they have a statement on their free license usage of
their material that states:

"*2. VERBATIM COPYING: *You may copy and distribute the Document in any
medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License,
the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to
the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other
conditions whatsoever to those of this License. You may not use technical
measures to obstruct or control the reading or further copying of the copies
you make or distribute. However, you may accept compensation in exchange for
copies. If you distribute a large enough number of copies you must also
follow the conditions in section 3."
http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html

You copied wikipedia posts verbatim without listing the proper copyright
clauses. They were not simply sources of material, such as when you
reference a text in an academic essay. They WERE, at times, the essay
itself.

This is my objection and I do not believe that I am false.

Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus

On 10/5/07, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato C. Lentulo F. Modiano omnibusque SPD
>
> No, Modianus, what your comments (regarding "proper citation" &c.)
> have been shown to be is *wrong*. Amply, and clearly. Yet you
> persist. Is this honorable, respectful, or dignified?
>
> Lentule, rhetoric is a noble and very Roman practice - one of the most
> Roman practices of all. I say keep it up :-)
>
> Cordus is right; I've done it long enough and let M. Piscinus take it
> on; since (if M. Hortensia is correct) he posts it on SVR anyways it
> should not be an overly burdensome task for him. He is intelligent,
> learned and will no doubt carry on a tradition begun by Iulius Scaurus
> admirably.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato F. Modiano sal.

Let's take this step by step so that it is quite clear what we're
talking about, Modianus. What you apparently neglected to read was
the definition of what is considered copyrighted material under the
Free License. It is (with my emphasis):

"This License applies to any manual or other work, in any medium,
*that contains a notice placed by the copyright holder* saying it can
be distributed under the terms of this License. Such a notice grants a
world-wide, royalty-free license, unlimited in duration, to use that
work under the conditions stated herein. The 'Document', below, refers
to any such manual or work."

Note the words "that contains a notice" &c. - in other words, works
that are copyrighted. Citing Wikipedia as a source, when it is a
source, satisfies any possible requirement (of which there are none
for free materials). As I stated earlier, under US law, any material
printed before AD 1922, and materials printed before AD 1976 without a
copyright notice are considered to be in the public domain.

Let us take, for example, the very bit that you chose to begin this
little crusade of yours, the article involving tutelary deities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutelary

There is no notice of copyright, there are no authors listed, there is
nothing which places this article under the section of the licensing
that you quote. I cited Wikipedia as a source, which it was.

Now, when I did actually use full-fledged passages from other sources,
I linked to them, e.g.(from the Kalends of October AD 2007):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
...must crawl.

Valete bene!

Cato


SOURCES

Livy, Horatii
(http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/historia/people/horatii01.htm) and
(http://www.bartleby.com/65/ho/Horatii.html), Martial, Silius Italicus

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and again (from the Nones of March AD 2006):

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Valete bene!

Cato



SOURCES

Ovid, Livy, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Veiovis
(http://www.pantheon.org/articles/v/veiovis.html), Temple of Veiovis
(http://www.museicapitolini.org/en/museo/sezioni.asp?l1=5&l2=5)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, you may continue if you like, but I am finished with this
conversation. For the past couple of years I have attempted to bring
the calendar to life, perhaps somewhat irreverently at times, but
always with the goals of education and interest in mind.

Vale bene,

Cato

Cato:

"There is no notice of copyright, there are no authors listed, there is
nothing which places this article under the section of the licensing that
you quote. I cited Wikipedia as a source, which it was."

Every wikipedia entry states: "All text is available under the terms of the
GNU Free Documentation
License<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GNU_Free_Documentation_License>.
(See *Copyrights <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights>* for
details.)" Therefore, there is a copyright notice.

"Now, you may continue if you like, but I am finished with this
conversation."

Good. For the most part I am finished with it as well. In the future
remember... cite your sources, don't cut and paste them :)

Vale:

Modianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Iubet bono animo esse.

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Septembres; haec dies comitialis est:
ludi divo Augusto et Fortunae Reduci committuntur.


While today sees the games continue in honor of divus Augustus and
Fortuna Redux, it also marks the anniversary of what was arguably
Rome's worst military disaster, the Battle of Arausio in 105 BCE.

In the last quarter of the second century before the common era the
Germanic tribe of Cimbri began a migration south from Jutland,
conquering Celtic tribes along their way. When they threatened in
113 BCE to advance into the Po River Valley a Roman army under consul
Gnaeus Papirius Carbo was sent to meet them. At first the Germans
asked for a parley, offering peace in exchange for land to settle.
Carbo agreed to meet with the Cimbri but then betrayed the truce and
attacked instead. Near Noreia Carbo was put to flight. The Cimbri
and their allies withdrew and then began moving west. They next
defeated an army under consul Marcus Junius Silanus at Narbo, and
later that same year also defeated and killed consul Gaius Cassius
Longinus near modern Bordeaux.

In 105 BCE the Romans sent two armies north to meet the Cimbri.
First to arrive was an army under pro-consul Quintus Servilius
Caepio. In an initial engagement, Caepio gained some success, taking
the town of Arausio (Orange), where he then set up a defense. Before
the arrival of the main force of the Cimbri, Teutons, Ambrones and
the Tigurines, consul Gnaeus Manlius Maximus arrived with a second
Roman army. In spite of Manlius outranking Caepio by virtue of being
consul, the arrogant Caepio refused to cooperate with a commander who
he regarded as a 'new man'. The two armies even camped on either
side of the River Rhone making coordination of the Roman forces
difficult. A skirmish saw a force under legatus M. Aurelius Scaurus
defeated. Scaurus was captured and, addressing the Cimbri in a
haughty manner, he was burned alive in a wicker basket.

"The consul Manlius was alarmed by this victory of the Cimbri, and
sent a letter begging Caepio to join forces with him and confront
the (Germans) with a large combined army; but Caepio refused. Caepio
crossed the Rhone and boasted to his soldiers that he would bring
help to the frightened consul; but he did not even want to discuss
with him how to conduct the war, and he disdained to listen to the
envoys whom the Senate sent, asking the generals to co-operate and
jointly to protect the state. The Cimbri sent envoys to arrange a
peace and to ask for land and for corn to sow, but he dismissed them
so brusquely that they attacked the next day. His camp was situated
not far away from Manlius' camp, but he could not be persuaded,
though he was so close, to join together their armies. The greater
part of the army was destroyed ... [the battle was fought] on the day
before the nones of October. Rutilius Rufus says that at least 70,000
regular troops and light-armed troops perished on this one day
(Granius Licianus, Historia Bk 33.11-12)."

Mommsen has placed the casualties higher, based on Valerius Antias
and the Perioche of Livy (Bk LXVII), by including an additional
40,000 auxiliaries and camp followers ('The History of Rome,' Bk
IV). Blame for the disaster fell primarily on Caepio, who attacked
without orders while Manlius was still negotiating with the Cimbri
envoys. Manlius' own force met with disaster in part because it was
camped with the River Rhone at its back. Both Caepio and Manlius
were sent into exile by a decree of the people proposed by tribunus
plebis Saturninus. One survivor of the battle at Arausio was
Quintus Sertorius, perhaps the finest Roman general ever. Disguised
as a barbarian, he went on to serve under Marius as an intelligence
officer during the campaigns that followed. In the aftermath of
Arausio Marius was elected as consul for five years. This gave him
the time needed to remodel the Roman legions into a professional army
with paid troops and standardized equipment, as well as reorganize
its units and adopt a new tactical doctrine. Marius went on to
conclude the Cimbrian War with his victories at Aquae Sextiae in 102
BCE and at Vercellae, 101 BCE.


Today's thought: "No longer talk at all about the kind of man that a
good man ought to be, but be such a man." ~ Marcus Aurelius,
Meditations 10.16


Di Deaeque vos bene ament

Salvete!

I propose that Cato is given recognition of his long service to NR
through the posting of the information and interesting daily calender.

Perhaps a title of some kind would be appropriate?

Valete!

C. Octavia Agrippa

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, leg. pro praet., rogator, accensus C.

Equitio Catoni praetori, M. Moravio, C. Buteoni ces., Horensiae
Maiori sal.:

>
> Salvete! Et salve, Cato!
>
> I feel it necessary to express my bad feeling because of the

treatment that you have received, Gai Cato, praetor amplissime. With
your efforts posting the Roman calendar you do deserve honor and
appreciation - and not criticism and unpoliteness. As for me, I give
thank you for you kind services for the citizenry! I ask you to
continue it, if you still have the appetite - and when I say that, I
think I speak in the name of most of us.

>
> Viri clarissimi et Hortensia clarissima! With all due respect, I

say, with a little more politeness and amiability, Nova Roma would be
richer with a better common feeling and with a "Calendar Boy".

>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo!

Mail

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani,

thank you to Cato for all the work he put
into the calendar for such a long time and I
welcome very much the change in duty ( so to call )
to M.Piscinus.I am sure M.Piscinus will do a very
fine job and will also address the religous
dates in the Religio Romana with the necessay emphasis.

Valete optime
Titus Flavis Aquila

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
and here is a link to Fortuna, the goddess, her temples in ROme
with some photos and an online Nova Roma temple in the NRwiki
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fortuna
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Fortunae_Huiusce_Diei

bene valete in pacem Fortunae!
M. Hortensia Maior

> M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
> plurimam dicit: Iubet bono animo esse.
>
> Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Septembres; haec dies comitialis

est:

> ludi divo Augusto et Fortunae Reduci committuntur.
>
>
>

EDICTVM ROGATORIS CN CORNELI LENTVLI SECVNDVM
de Consilio Onomastico "Triagio" publice constituendo

ROGATORIAL EDICT No2 OF CN CORNELIUS LENTULUS
Official Establishment of the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board



Preamble

The "Onomastic Triage" advisory group of Roman onomastic experts and Latinists was founded by Censor Cn. Equitius Marinus as his private board in order to advise him in his Censorial job when onomastic questions arisen. Meantime this board became an important public office both in the citizenship application process and in any name change issue, so I have decided to make it official.


1) In accordance with Lex Equitia de vigintisexviris, Article III: in this Edict, I officially establish the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board ("Triage" OAB), as a tool for the Scribes of the Censiorial Officina Approbationum, the Rogatores and for the Censores when they need expert opinion in onomastical questions.


2) The "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board has the following duties:

a) to advise Scribes of the Censorial Officina Approbationum in onomastic questions. The advice of the "Triage" OAB shall be considered as an order to the Approbation Scribes, unless the Rogatores or the Censores dispose of it otherwise.

b) to advise the Rogatores and the Censores in onomastic questions. The advice of the "Triage" OAB does not bind the Rogatores and the Censores.

c) the operation of the Board shall support the quick and uninterrupted process of the Officina Approbationum.


3) Structure and Working

a) The "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board shall consist of the Rogatores (Heads of the Board) and of a limited number of highly qualified Roman onomastical experts and Latinists (Advisory Scribes) appointed by the Rogatores.

b) The "Triage" OAB shall operate in a mailinglist where the members of the Board, the Scribes of the Officina Approbationum and the Censores must be present and can consult and shall be advised.

c) Rogatores are resposible of the working of the "Triage" OAB. They shall maintain the mailinglist of the "Triage" OAB. When there is no firm opinion in a question in the Board, they shall determine the definite opinion of the Board.

d) Advisory Scribes are responsible for answering the onomastic questions of the Approbation Scribes, of the Rogatores and of the Censores within 10 days. If they don't offer regularly their advice or do it later than within 10 days, they can be removed from office by the Rogatores.

e) The Approbation Scribes must apply directly to the "Triage" OAB for instruction if any doubt is arisen with a name to be allowed.

f) The Rogatores have the inferior power and the Censores have the supreme power to intervene or modify or change any decision of the "Triage" OAB.


4) This Edict takes force immediately.




Datum - prid. Non. Oct. - L. Arminio Ti. Galerio coss - MMDCCLX. auc.
Date - 6th of October - 2760. auc.


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
R O G A T O R
REI PVBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE









Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
R O G A T O R
-------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

EDICTVM ROGATORIS CN CORNELI LENTVLI TERTIVM
de scribis consiliariis Consili Onomastici "Triagi" nominandis

ROGATORIAL EDICT No3 OF CN CORNELIUS LENTULUS
Appointment of Advisory Scribes to the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board



1) In accordance with Lex Equitia de vigintisexviris, Article III, and with the Rogatorial Edict No.2: in this Edict, I appoint the following citizens to serve as "Onomastic Advisory Scribe" in the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board:

A. Tullia Scholastica,
A. Apollonius Cordus,
Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.


2) Their duties and obligations are described in my 2nd Rogatorial Edict, in Section 3) d).





Datum - prid. Non. Oct. - L. Arminio Ti. Galerio coss - MMDCCLX. auc.
Date - 6th of October - 2760. auc.



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
R O G A T O R
REI PVBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE









---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

EDICTVM ROGATORIS CN CORNELI LENTVLI QVARTVM
de mailiglista Consili Onomastici "Triagi" regenda

ROGATORIAL EDICT No4 OF CN CORNELIUS LENTULUS
Management of the Mailinglist of the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board



1) In accordance with Lex Equitia de vigintisexviris, Article III, and with the Rogatorial Edict No.2: in this Edict, I determine the management of the mailiglist of the "Trige" Onomastic Advisory Board.

2) Owners of the "Triage" OAB mailinglist shall be the Rogatores and at least one of the Censores.

3) Moderators of the "Triage" OAB mailinglist shall be the Advisory Scribes.

4) This Edict takes force immediately.



Datum - prid. Non. Oct. - L. Arminio Ti. Galerio coss - MMDCCLX. auc.
Date - 6th of October - 2760. auc.



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
R O G A T O R
REI PVBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE









---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Correction: In my previous message I have entitled my Rogatorial Edict III as Edict II. Sorry for the confusion: the correct version is here.




EDICTVM ROGATORIS CN CORNELI LENTVLI TERTIVM
de scribis consiliariis Consili Onomastici "Triagi" nominandis

ROGATORIAL EDICT No3 OF CN CORNELIUS LENTULUS
Appointment of Advisory Scribes to the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board



1) In accordance with Lex Equitia de vigintisexviris, Article III, and with the Rogatorial Edict No.2: in this Edict, I appoint the following citizens to serve as "Onomastic Advisory Scribe" in the "Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board:

A. Tullia Scholastica,
A. Apollonius Cordus,
Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.


2) Their duties and obligations are described in my 2nd Rogatorial Edict, in Section 3) d).


3) This Edict takes force immediately.



Datum - prid. Non. Oct. - L. Arminio Ti. Galerio coss - MMDCCLX. auc.
Date - 6th of October - 2760. auc.



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
R O G A T O R
REI PVBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE









---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Gub. Am. Austrorientalis S.P.D.

The Regional Praefects of the Province America Austrorientalis (NR)
are required to post a message to me by no later than October 30
indicating whether they wish to continue to serve in their current
offices. This message is to include their current mailing address,
contact telephone number(s), and any new email addresses.

Any praefects who do not report by that date will be considered to
have voluntarily relinquished their offices. A provincial edictum
will be issued to that effect together with the thanks and gratitude
of the Province for their service. The Senate will be notified of
this in the report that the Gubernator is required to submit by the
Kalends November.

Regional Praefects may post to the Gub. Am. Austrorientalis at the
following email addresses:

Patrick.Owen@...
brotherpaganus@...

I look forward to your responses.

Valete.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Iubet bono animo esse


Hodiernus dies est Nonis Octobris; haec dies fastus est: Iovi
Fulguri, Iunoni Curriti in campo.

Today celebrates Juno Curitis of the Falerii and the Italic Jupiter
Fulgor. Among the Falerii a procession was held in which an image of
a Goddess was carried in the dress and manner of a bride. By what
name She was called is not exactly known. The Romans referred to Her
Juno and by the imperial period She had been assimilated with Juno
Capitolina. The Falerian rite took the form of a sacred marriage,
similar to a hiero gamos as found in Greece, but not otherwise known
in Italy. It has therefore been posed that the rite resulted from
early Greek influence, although there is no good evidence on which to
base this claim. Ovid, in the Amores, described the procession (see
below), and attributed the ritual to Halaesus who fled Greece upon
the murder of Agamemnon. Ovid also mentions that the ancient altar
of the fanum had been erected "by divine hands" and refers to the
myth of Juno fleeing from Jupiter. It was Hercules who carried Her
away on His shoulders and placed Her in a forest to hide. Many an
ancient shrine, dating back to the Bronze Age or even earlier, in
Italy and in eastern Spain were attributed to Hercules. One example
in Italy is mentioned on the Cippus Abellanus; its antiquity shown by
its unusual location being on the boundary between Nola and Avellino –
a feature found with other Bronze Age sites in both Italy and Spain,
being comparable, in a sense, to the later extramural sanctuaries as
of that of Minerva at Lavinium. Whoever the Goddess of the Falerii
may have been, Her sanctuary there was extremely old and Her rites,
rather than a Greek origin, express an early Italian worship.

Who was the bridegroom of Juno Curitis? The inference would
naturally seem to be Jupiter. Ovid also makes that inference with
the goat, banned by Juno, but sacred to the Idean Jupiter who was
suckled by one. "But," says W. W. Fowler, "this cannot be proved,
and is in fact supported by no real evidence as to the old-Italian
relation of the god and goddess." Indeed, without knowing exactly
who the Goddess of the Falerii was, it is difficult to have any guess
on who Her bridegroom may have been originally. Juno was not known
among the Italic tribes. Even in later periods She appears on
inscriptions only at Roman colonies in the Italic tribal lands.
Instead, among the Oscan-speaking tribes and the Umbrians it was
Ceres who was the consort of Jupiter. As an earth Goddess, Ceres was
at times identified with nearby mountains. The Italic Jupiter, or
Diove, was identified with light, whether sunlight, moonlight, or
lightning flashes. And the hiero gamos of the Celestial Father and
the Earth Mother was seen in the appearance of light falling on
mountaintops. This accounts for the various names of Diove where He
was identified along with a nearby mountain and remained distinct
from Roman Jupiter Optimus Maximus. Inscriptions to Jupiter Fulgur
are found in Aemilia, Apulia, Bruttia, Ertruria, and Transpadana.
His assimilation with other forms of Jupiter is perhaps best seen in
Umbria where He is called Iove Fulminus Fulgur Tonens (CIL 11, 4172 =
ILS 3052). Roman Jupiter is a God of sovereignty, among other
things, while the Italic Diove is found almost exclusively as a God
of fertility.


"On the Festival of Juno" by Ovid

"There stood the grove of the Goddess, dark-shadowed, immemorial –
one step inside and you know that some spirit resides within the
place. There's a rough old altar, raised by divine hands, where
worshippers mutter prayers over incense plumes.Through garland
streets, with solemn chanting to the skirl of flutes, and the cheers
of bystanders, comes the annual procession, leading snow-white
heifers, sleek on Falerian pastures, and young calves, unbellowing,
with yet buds on their foreheads. Humble pigs from the sty come next
to placate the God, and wethers with horns curved round their
temples. Only the goat is banned, by Juno's command. When She fled
from Jove's wedding bed, and sought shelter deep within this forest,
the bleat of a goat gave Her away. So to this day little children
cast sticks at the tattler, and whoever scores first, by Her law,
wins a nanny goat as prize.
Ahead of the Goddess walks youths and shy virgins, their hems
sweeping the broad streets, the girls hair all entwined with gold and
jewels, gilded shoes peering out from underneath embroidered
mantles. Veiled, white-robed in Greek fashion, maidens bear the
sacred vessels on their heads.
The crowd falls into silent reverence as Juno Herself passes on a
gilded float drawn by Her priestesses."
~P. Ovidius Naso, 'Amores' 3.13.7-31

Also see Ovid's 'Of the festival of Juno' at Perseus
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%
3A1999.02.0069&query=head%3D%2369

Ref: W. Warde Fowler, "The Roman Festivals of the Period of the
Republic,"" Kennikat Press, 1969, p. 223.


Today's thought, from: Livy 5.51.5-6:

"You discover that all events turn out well when we follow the Gods
in obedience, and ill when we spurn Them."

Invenietis omnia prospera evenisse sequentibus Deos, adversa
spernentibus.

Salvete

Septembris? LOL Oops. I have been on a disability retirement for
over ten years. Being without any schedule I am no longer familiar
with such things as calendars and time clocks. It should have
read "pridie Nonas Octobres" and the information was correct for 6
October.

Valete
M Moravius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
> and here is a link to Fortuna, the goddess, her temples in
ROme
> with some photos and an online Nova Roma temple in the NRwiki
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fortuna
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Fortunae_Huiusce_Diei
>
> bene valete in pacem Fortunae!
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> > M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
> > plurimam dicit: Iubet bono animo esse.
> >
> > Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Septembres; haec dies comitialis
> est:
> > ludi divo Augusto et Fortunae Reduci committuntur.
> >
> >
> >
>

Salvete omnes,

Recently I have had a few letters from a few great citizens thinking
that I had disappeared. Actually I am keeping an ear on things,
checking my mail and postings but also have had a heavier work load
than usual this summer. I have rarely posted to the ML as of late but
don't worry - I ain't going nowhere. Thanks for checking!

Valete bene

QSP

Salvete Quirites et omnes

Yesterday Dave Meadows posted an article from BBC at Rogue Clacissim
on the discovery of what is believed to be the fanum Voltumnum.

http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism/Posts/00006931.html

And here are a couple of passages from Livy on the significance of
the site:

"The capture of Fidenae created alarm in Etruria. Not only were the
Veientines apprehensive of a similar fate, but the Faliscans too had
not forgotten the war which they had commenced in alliance with them,
though they had taken no part in its renewal. The two States sent
round envoys to the twelve cantons, and in compliance with their
request a meeting was proclaimed of the national council of Etruria,
to be held at the temple of Voltumna. As a great struggle seemed
imminent, the senate ordered that Mamercus Aemilius should be again
nominated Dictator. A. Postumius Tubertus was appointed Master of the
Horse. Preparations for war were made with all the greater energy now
than on the last occasion, as the danger to be apprehended from the
whole of Etruria was greater than from only two of its towns (4.23)."


"Whilst this was going on the national council of Etruria met at the
Fane of Voltumna. The Capenates and the Faliscans demanded that all
the cantons of Etruria should unite in common action to raise the
siege of Veii; they were told in reply that assistance had been
previously refused to the Veientines because they had no right to
seek help from those whose advice they had not sought in a matter of
such importance. Now, however, it was their unfortunate circumstances
and not their will that compelled them to refuse. The Gauls, a
strange and unknown race, had recently overrun the greatest part of
Etruria, and they were not on terms of either assured peace or open
war with them. They would, however, do this much for those of their
blood and name, considering the imminent danger of their kinsmen-if
any of their younger men volunteered for the war they would not
prevent their going (5.17)."

Voltumna or Veltha was an Etruscan God of the Underworld, somewhat
like Voltumnus in being a "ripener" as He was identified with the
earth's internal heat. As his sanctuary among the Volsini became a
center for the Etruscan League, Voltumnus rose to become the deus
Etruriae princeps (Varro Lingua Latinae 5.46).

Valete optime
M Moravius Piscinus

Greetings All,

Forgive my intrusion and lack of knowledge, but I was wondering if
there's a physical "group" of Nova Roma in Australia?

Many thanks,
Kit

Hello Kit,

Welcome to Nova Roma. You asked:

Kit Smyth <phoenix_art@...> writes:

> Greetings All,
>
> Forgive my intrusion and lack of knowledge, but I was wondering if
> there's a physical "group" of Nova Roma in Australia?

We have eighteen Nova Roman citizens scattered around Australia.
There are a few in Melbourne, a few in Perth, several in Sydney, and
several loners in other places. I don't think there's any large
concentration.

Hope that helps.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve Kit Smyth

Yes there is. The yahoo group can be found here.


NR_Australia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: "Kit Smyth" <phoenix_art@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma in Australia?
>Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 08:48:06 -0000
>
>Greetings All,
>
>Forgive my intrusion and lack of knowledge, but I was wondering if
>there's a physical "group" of Nova Roma in Australia?
>
>Many thanks,
>Kit
>

An Eye for Architectural Theory - Who Vitruvius Was?*

Video:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=SnMQ9AkH8EM

"De architectura" is a treatise on architecture written by the Roman
architect Vitruvius and dedicated to his patron, the emperor Caesar
Augustus.
Agrippa was ready to be Augustus's right-hand man.
He dedicated both his organizational talent and his huge fortune to
the cities and buildings of the empire.
It is not possible to imagine like could not agree during
the "prodigious decade" of the twenties of first century B.C. two as
exceptional architects as Vitruvius and Agrippa, in the same city of
Rome and under the protection of Augustus, and who while one wrote
the best and more complete treaty on classic architecture, the other
projected and executed hugest works of construction and urbanism of
the Roman world.

*Music: An Eye for Optical Theory from The Draughtsman's Contract. M.
Nyman

Valete.
C. M. A.

>
> Salve, Kit, et salvete omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
> Greetings All,
>
> Forgive my intrusion and lack of knowledge, but I was wondering if
> there's a physical "group" of Nova Roma in Australia?
>
> ATS: One of my former students (I teach Latin at the Academia Thules) is
> in Melbourne, and a current student is somewhere in Australia (not familiar
> with the toponym). There should be others.
>
> Many thanks,
> Kit
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, Q. Suetoni Pauline, et salvete, omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Recently I have had a few letters from a few great citizens thinking
> that I had disappeared. Actually I am keeping an ear on things,
> checking my mail and postings but also have had a heavier work load
> than usual this summer. I have rarely posted to the ML as of late but
> don't worry - I ain't going nowhere. Thanks for checking!
>
> ATS: Glad to hear this. Some of us (including yours truly) have been
> concerned about you and your absence.
>
> Valete bene
>
> Et tu, et vos omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
> QSP
>
> ATS
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Who is wanting to know what about Mithra/Mithras?

I can answer some questions. There has been a lot of
research on Mithraic sites in Armenia, for example,
grottos under Armenian churches.

What's meant by "adepts"? Scholars or those new agers
in California and Texas that revived Mithraism?


--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> -Salve Albuci;
> really Aventina? I had no idea how interesting.
> There is a Mithras
> list (in English..though there may be francophones)
> also Nabarz who
> posts links here is in England and a great devotee
> of Mithras. I just
> found a post of his on a Mithras reader & forwarded
> it here, so the
> civis can write to him.
> bene vale
> Maior
>
> >
> > I'm sure that Marcus Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> knows everything about
> > Mithras. He was doing a lot of research on Mithras
> years ago.He is a
> > Pontifex.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana
> >
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)






____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

Salvete omnes,

The 2761 (2008) Roman Calendar is here! Order yours today!

http://www.insulaumbra.com/calendar

(Please note that the deliveries start from 1st, December)

Valete,

C. Curius Saturninus

Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvas et servatas volunt

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII eidus Octobris; haec dies fastus
est.

Falling on the day after the Nones, today is a dies ater. That is to
say, it is a "black day" or an "ill-omened day" on which to begin any
new project. No, it does not mean that you cannot light any fires on
a dies ater. Normally when beginning anything new the Romans invoked
the favor of the Gods by offering sacrifices. But it was considered
improper to offer sacrifice to the celestial Gods on these days, just
as one would not invoke the celestial Gods on holidays dedicated to
the Manes. Aulus Gellius offers us an explanation.

"Verrius Flaccus, in the fourth book of his work De Verborum
Significatu writes that the days immediately following the Kalends,
Nones, and Ides, which the vulgar ignorantly declare to be nefastus,
are properly called and considered ill-omened for this reason: When
the City, he says, had been recovered from the Senonian Gauls, Lucius
Atilius stated in the Senate that Quintus Sulpicius, tribune of the
soldiers, when on the eve of fighting against the Gauls at the Allia,
offered sacrifice in anticipation of the battle on the day after the
Ides; that the army of the Roman people was thereupon cut to pieces,
and three days later the whole City, except the Capital, was taken.
Also many other senators said that they remembered that whenever with
a view to waging war a magistrate of the Roman people had sacrificed
on the day after the Kalends, Nones, or Ides, in the very next battle
of the war the State had suffered a disaster. Then the Senate
referred the matter to the pontifices, that they might take what
action they saw fit. The pontifices decreed that no sacrifice would
properly be made on those days." ~ Gellius, Noctium Atticarum 5.17.1-
2

There are two exceptions to this general guideline. When work must be
performed or otherwise it would cause damage not to do the work, then
a person may perform what is necessary and so the Gods might be
invoked with sacrifices in that case. Also work or a festival or any
other affair that began earlier could continue through a dies ater,
however in this case any necessary sacrifices would be performed on
the day prior.

"Tiberius Cornucanius, the pontifex maximus, appointed feriae
praecidaneae, or prepatory festival, for a day of ill-omen (atrum
diem). The collegium pontificum voted that there need be no
religious scruple against celebrating the feriae praecidaneae on the
day (prior)." ~ Ateius Capito, "On Pontifical Law" in Gellius,
Noctium Atticarum 4.6.10


8 Oct. 314 (or 316) CE marked a dark day for Valerius Licinius,
emperor in the East, when he was defeated by Constantine at the
Battle of Cibalae. Licinius was forced to cede his territories in
Illyrium and Macedonia, retaining only a part of Thrace in Europe.
Relations between Licinius and Constantine grew strained again in 323
CE. Licinius had adopted an anti-Christian policy, while Constantine
continued the tolerance towards Christians granted by the Edict of
Milan, 313 CE. Constantine had also begun to meddle in Christian
controversies by 316 CE when he tried to settle the Donatist schism.
They met in battle again at Andrianople (3 July 323 CE) and at
Chrysopolis (18 Sept. 323 CE), both times with Constantine being
victorious. Meanwhile Constantine's son Crispus defeated Licinius'
fleet. Licinius surrendered and was executed the following year,
allowing Constantine to reunite the empire. Constantine also
executed his son Crispus (326 CE) at the instigation of his wife
Fausta, so that she could install her three sons as his heirs.


Today's thought continues from Epictetus, Enchiridion 1:

"Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, 'You
are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to
be.' And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first,
and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our
control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in
our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you."

Di Deaeque vos bene ament

avete omnes,

as some of you know I'm trying to make a list of the Roman monuments
scattered in what once was the Roman Empire(Signa Romanorum Project). After
some months I'm now able to make a list of 'temples', thanks also to Enrico
Rizzi who helped a lot. This list includes the Roman temples which have
still at least three columns standing (with half of their total lentgh
remaining).

Here the list:

> NUSRTEM001 - Aizanoi (Aphrodisias), di Afrodite

> NUSRTEM002 - Amman (Philadelfia) ,di Ercole

> NUSRTEM003 - Assisi (Asisium),di Minerva

> NUSRTEM004 - Atene/Athens (Athenae), di Zeus Olimpo

> NUSRTEM005 - Baalbek (Heliopolis) ,di Bacco

> NUSRTEM006 - Baalbek (Heliopolis) ,di Giove

> NUSRTEM007 - Brescia (Brixia), della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM008 - Campello sul Clitumno (Clitumnus), di Clitumno

> NUSRTEM009 - Caserta (Galatea) ,di Apollo

> NUSRTEM010 - Cori (Cora), di Ercole

> NUSRTEM011 - Djemila (Cuicul),della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM012 - Dougga (Thugga) ,della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM013 - Efeso/Ephesus(Selcuk) ,di Adriano

> NUSRTEM014 - Evora (Ebora), di Diana

> NUSRTEM015 - Flumimaggiore (Antas), punico-romano

> NUSRTEM016 - Garni (Garni), di Mitra

> NUSRTEM017 - Homs (Emesa), della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM018 - Jendouba (Bulla Regia) , di Apollo e Iside

> NUSRTEM019 - Jerash (Gerasa) , di Artemide

> NUSRTEM020 - Kourion (Curias) , di Apollo Ylatis

> NUSRTEM021 - Lebda (Leptis Magna),di Serapide

> NUSRTEM022 - Merida (Emerita Augusta), di Diana

> NUSRTEM023 - Mileto (Miletus), di Apollo

> NUSRTEM024 - Nimes (Nemausus), di Augusto

> NUSRTEM025 - Ostia (Ostia), di Bellona

> NUSRTEM026 - Vic (Vicus Ausonensis), di Roma

> NUSRTEM027 - Pola/Pula (Pietas Iulia), di Roma

> NUSRTEM028 - Pompei (Pompeii),di Apollo

> NUSRTEM029 - Pompei (Pompeii) , di Giove

> NUSRTEM030 - Pompei (Pompeii) ,di Iside

> NUSRTEM031 - Pozzuoli (Puteoli), di Augusto

> NUSRTEM032 - Pozzuoli (Puteoli) ,di Nettuno

> NUSRTEM033 - Roma (Roma) ,di Antonino e Faustina

> NUSRTEM034 - Roma (Roma) , di Adriano

> NUSRTEM035 - Roma (Roma) ,di Apollo Sosiano

> NUSRTEM036 - Roma (Roma) ,di Cerere e Faustina (S.Urbano)

> NUSRTEM037 - Roma (Roma) ,dei Dioscuri

> NUSRTEM038 - Roma (Roma) , di Ercole Vincitore

> NUSRTEM039 - Roma (Roma) ,della Fortuna del Giorno Presente o "B"

> NUSRTEM040 - Roma (Roma) , di Giano

> NUSRTEM041 - Roma (Roma) , di Giuturna o "A"

> NUSRTEM042 - Roma (Roma) , di Marte Ultore

> NUSRTEM043 - Roma (Roma) ,di Saturno

> NUSRTEM044 - Roma (Roma) , di Spes

> NUSRTEM045 - Roma (Roma) , Pantheon

> NUSRTEM046 - Roma (Roma) ,di Portuno

> NUSRTEM047 - Roma (Roma) , di Venere Genitrice

> NUSRTEM048 - Roma (Roma) , di Vespasiano

> NUSRTEM049 - Roma (Roma) , di Vesta

> NUSRTEM050 - Sbeitla (Sufetula) , della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM051 - Side (Selimiye Koyu) , di Apollo

> NUSRTEM052 - St.Remy (Glanum) , della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM053 - Terracina (Tarracina) , della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM054 - Timgad (Tamugadi) ,di Giove Capitolino

> NUSRTEM055 - Tivoli (Tibur) , di Venere

> NUSRTEM056 - Tivoli (Tibur) , di Vesta

> NUSRTEM057 - Tivoli (Tibur) , "della Sibilla"

> NUSRTEM058 - Tudmus (Palmyra ) , di Beel

> NUSRTEM059 - Vienne (Vienna) ,di Augusto e Livia

> NUSRTEM060 - Volubulis (Volubilis) , della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM061 - Xanten (Colonia Ulpia Traiana) ,della Triade Capitolina

> NUSRTEM062 - Zovagha (Sabratha) , di Liber Pater

> NUSRTEM063 - Zovagha (Sabratha) , di Serapide

As happened earlier with the other monuments listed in SR any help from you
is welcomed to enlist other places.

thanks

M IVL PERVSAINVS / Milko Anselmi

http://www.signaromanorum.org







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

As some of you know I'm trying to make a list of the Roman monuments
scattered in what once was the Roman Empire(Signa Romanorum Project). After
the temples (just sent a few seconds ago) I'm now able to make a list of
'buildings', including palaces, basilicas, libraries and insulae (this last
whereas there are still three stores remaining).

Here the list:

*Palazzi / Palaces*

NUSRPAL001 - Butrinto(Buthrotum) , Ginnasium

NUSRPAL002 - Polace (Melita) ,


NUSRPAL003 - Roma (Roma) , Domus Aurea

NUSRPAL004 - Roma (Roma) , Domus Tiberiana

NUSRPAL005 - Roma (Roma) , Domus Augustana

NUSRPAL006 - Roma (Roma) , Domus Flavia

NUSRPAL007 - Roma (Roma) , Domus Severiana

NUSRPAL008 - Roma (Roma) , Curia Iulia

NUSRPAL009 - Roma (Roma) , Tabularium

NUSRPAL010 - Spalato/Split (Spalatus) , Palazzo di Diocleaziano

NUSRPAL011 - Salonicco/Thessaloniki (Thessalonica)


NUSRPAL012 - Treviri/Trier (Augusta Trevorum) , Aula Palatina

* *

*Biblioteche / Libraries*

NUSRPAL013 - Selcuk (Ephesus) , di Celso

* ** *

*Basiliche / Basilicas*

NUSRPAL014 - Lebda (Leptis Magna) ,

NUSRPAL015 - Gortyn (Gortuna) , Praetorium

NUSRPAL016 - Roma (Roma) , di Massenzio

NUSRPAL017 - Volubilis (Volubilis)

*Insule / Insulae*

NUSRPAL018 - Ostia (Ostia) , del Thermopolium

NUSRPAL019 - Ostia (Ostia) , della casa di Diana

NUSRPAL020 - Roma (Roma) , dell'Ara Coeli


As happened earlier with the other monuments listed in SR any help from you
are welcomed to enlist other places.

thanks

M IVL PERVSIANVS / Milko Anselmi

http://www.signaromanorum.org






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]