Cn. Lentulus Tribunis Plebis Designatis salutem plurimam:

>>> Lucia Livia Plauta, 32 tribes

Quintus Arrius Nauta, 32 tribes <<<


Congratulation to the new Tribuni Designati, especially to my fellow Pannonian Q. Arrius Nauta and L. Livia Plauta, with the largest number of tribe votes! They are the first in my province who hold this office! I am very proud of them.


FELICITER!!!







Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
R O G A T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes:

My congrats to the newly elected Tribunes and Aediles 2761 A.U.C.!

Valete
Pompeia

---****NAUTA and PLAUTA****

I don't think we've ever had two Tribunes (or any other co-magistrates
for that matter) with cognoma that rhyme!

:>)


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Lentulus Tribunis Plebis Designatis salutem plurimam:
>
>
> >>> Lucia Livia Plauta, 32 tribes
> Quintus Arrius Nauta, 32 tribes <<<
>
>
> Congratulation to the new Tribuni Designati, especially to my fellow

Pannonian Q. Arrius Nauta and L. Livia Plauta, with the largest number
of tribe votes! They are the first in my province who hold this
office! I am very proud of them.

>
>
> FELICITER!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> R O G A T O R
> ------------------------------------------
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
> Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
> Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

---Salve Galerius Consul, Salvete Omnes:

Thank you for the revised schedule, Consul. Looks great.

I cross posted it to the election officials' list and while I was at
it I cross posted it for you to the Announce List.

Vale
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
>
> The Centuria Praerogativa. shall be Century III.
>
> 9:00 PM, 19 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa *only* begins.
> 9:00 PM, 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria

Praerogativa.

> 9:00 PM, 21 November: Voting by all First Class centuries now permitted.
> 9:00 PM, 23 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First Class
> centuries.
> 9:00 PM, 24 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
> 9:00 PM, 28 November: Voting ends
>
> Class I is Century 1-14
> Class II is 15-26
> Class III 27-36
> Class IV 37-44
> ClassV is 45-51
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Glerius Paulinus
> Consul
>

Salvete omnes,

My sincere congratulations to the newly elected Tribunus Plebis and Aediles Plebis.

Valete optime,

M�IVL�SEVERVS
LEGATVS�PRO�PR�TORE�PROVINCI��MEXICO
VIAT�TR�PL�M�C�C
SCRIBA�CENSORIS�G�F�B�M
INTERPRETER
MVS�VS�COLLEGII�ERATOVS�SODALITATIS�MVSARVM
SOCIVS�CHORI�MVSARVM


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nova Britannia Members;

As one Senators for this province, I have taken it upon myself to contact the Cassi and see if I can't determine what is going on and what the problem might be.

The long and short of it is that since the Pontificum has refused to allow Patricia to take up a requested priesthood she has lost most of her interest in Nova Roma. She and Cassius are very involved in the Religio Romano, and that refusal has drained much of the energy and excitement of NR from them according to her. After all, as she as indicated, that was the reason in the beginning for the establishment of NR by the Cassi and the other gentleman.

However, Patricia is working behind the scenes at her presently assigned tasks and speaks regularly with the Consul regarding her duties and responsibilities.

Cassius was not present when I talked to Cassia, and she has quite properly declined to speak for him on the matter of the Pontifex Maximus. I asked her to ask Marcus to contact me and talk about this when he is available, and she has agreed to do so.

Cassia has aid to me that she is not against giving up her responsibilities and positions in Nova Roma. However, she would require a serious plan and personnel to be proposed in order to insure that Nova Roma would continue as it has been under her efforts.

The interesting thing about this is that Cassia has indicated that considering all the static about this concern that has been aired on the Main List no-one has bothered to contact her. Apparently I was the first one to do so, and that only because the Governor of Nova Britannia asked if anyone had talked to the Cassi recently.

As most of you know, I do not involve myself much on the main list as there is entirely too much politics and character bashing which goes on there for my taste, together with much talk and little action, and that is not what I joined Nova Roma for. I had been informed that such had been moderated, but the few messages that I read today seemed to me to be as bad as ever. However, when the NB Governor posted a message, I went on the Main List to see what the concern was all about.

Anyway, such is the latest from the Cassi, and I have permission from Senator Cassia to put this information on the Main List. Finally, if anyone wants any further details they are most cordially invited to contact the Cassi and ask them directly instead of the never-ending discussions about the question without knowing the answers.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens


-----Original Message-----
From: Tiberius Horatius Barbatus
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:12 PM
To: NovaBritannia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NovaBritannia] Re: Cassia

Salve,

I think that's the basic problem.. according to the NR list, no one has heard from them at
all.

Is this the same citizen that is the Legatus Regionis of Maine?

Vale

Ti. Horatius

--- In NovaBritannia@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella" <annia@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> Has anyone had any contact with the Cassia(Marcus, and Patricia)? I guess there's talk on
the main list of getting rid of them as CFO and Pontifex Maximus.
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://minucia.ciarin.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes! Salvete Romani! Well I tried to email
Marcus Cassius Iulianus at his email and have NOT
received any reply whatsoever! Can anyone please tell
me what has happen to him?! Is he not active anymore?!
If so WHO has taken his place?! Gratias vobis ago!
Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Fl. Galerius Aurelianus C. Fabio Buteo Modiano Tb. Galerio Paulino sal.

Although I dislike to use the comparison, there are aspects of our corporate
structure that could benefit from imitating the SCA. Our quaestores are
elected by vote but there is no requirement for training or professional
financial qualification. This also occurs in the SCA when an exchequer is named to
a local or kingdom level branch of the SCA. However, the SCA does have a few
full-time employees including a Stock Clerk and a Registrar (who records the
new members, issues their membership cards, and handles the taxes for the
corporate body of the SCA). Historically, there is nothing like a stock clerk
or registrar in medieval times but the SCA is a modern educational
organization framed within a medieval or pseudo-medieval theme. The local exchequers
of the SCA learn their jobs by working with a set of standard forms and
reporting schedules.

Perhaps Nova Roma could learn from their example by establishing a financial
officer who is selected and paid a reasonable stipend to create a standard
set of forms and a procedure for provincial governors and quaestores to use in
gathering taxes, keeping records, and handling money. The NR financial
officer would be responsible for filing the annual information with the proper
state and federal agencies, too. The quaestores could work on the national or
regional level to learn to handle tax collection and money dispursement more
efficently.

Our present corporate structure needs some reorganization. Historically,
the Censores had an enormous amount of authority in handling the census and as
keepers of the public values and morality. According to the NR Constitution,
they are at the bottom of our corporate hierarchy as the co-secretaries.

I have been associated with the SCA for over 30 years and remember when the
Board of Directors were also called the Imperium. They acted as though they
were the Grand Electors of the SCA World and held board meetings that
resembled papal assemblies. Business got done but it was so mixed with the
historical trappings as to render it ineffective and confusing to the general run of
the SCA. Later, they evolved into an actual corporate body that often times
had no regular contact with the medieval events of the SCA because they were
too busy with the running of the society and fielding the legal problems of a
large group.

I believe that our organization could benefit from a paid professional who
is also a member as the chief financial officer that is separate from and
legally accountable to NR and who oversees the work of the elected quaestores.

This problem should be resolved by our next set of elected officers because
there is not enough time left this year nor are many of our magistrates and
Senators on the best of terms.

Valete.



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well if the Senate is going to be the ultimate arbiter of the dictator, I
will reluctantly offer myself up as a candidate for dictator of Nova Roma.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

> Currently Nova Roma doesn't have much in the way of expenses. In

the past I, and others, have advocated for an actual paper
newsletter with news and information. Something that citizens can
hold in their hands. This would cost money, and it should be taken
on by people with real desktop publishing experience. Nova Roma,
unfortunately, doesn't provide much for its members and therefore we
don't have much in the way of expenses. I would like to see that
change, because I truly value this community and want to see it
grow.>>>

When it comes about expenses, I have only one question in my mind:
as time as here are many good projects, proposed by citizens, groups
of citizens or provinces, why nobody presented them to the Senate?
I'm more than sure that our Senate is anytime available to take a
decision and to invest in good ideas.

NR has all necessaries tools and laws. Most of them were created
some years ago and are clear enough, very good and in force.
Probably we need more initiative!
Take a look to this example:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-12-31-iv.html

So, quirites, keep the Senate busy with valuable projects and ideas!

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

If the people elect the Pontifex Maximus, they should only be able to do so
by co-option from the existing members of the Sacred Colleges--Pontiffs,
Augurs, and Flamen--and using the traditional tribal formulae. I would love to
have the job as the Sacra et Religio has always been my primary interest.

Hey, I have an even better idea. Let's have the Senate make me Dictator and
the People make me Pontifex Maximus. I could then appoint the Decemvirii &
fix almost everything wrong in Nova Roma in six months. Then I can hand over
the fasces to the people and get back to my turnips.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you want to see a good fight in Nova Roma just stand between my cousin,
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, and my good friend, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.
I have been there many times and it is better than watching the munera.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis S.P.D.

After careful consideration and hearing good or wholesome instruction from
the magistrates, Tribunes, and People of Nova Roma. I will not issue
intercessio so the new elections can proceed.

Valete.



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Iulio Iuliano salutem dicit

He is still the Pontifex Maximus, but he is never around. He is not
active. But he will have a "good" excuse for his apathy when backed
into a corner, he always does.

Vale:

Caeso Buteo

On Nov 15, 2007 5:24 PM, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes! Salvete Romani! Well I tried to email
> Marcus Cassius Iulianus at his email and have NOT
> received any reply whatsoever! Can anyone please tell
> me what has happen to him?! Is he not active anymore?!
> If so WHO has taken his place?! Gratias vobis ago!
> Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Fl. Galerio Aureliano salutem dicit

I'm not sure its a fair fight. I usually pull my punches :)

Vale:

Caeso Buteo

On Nov 15, 2007 7:45 PM, <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...> wrote:
>
> If you want to see a good fight in Nova Roma just stand between my cousin,
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, and my good friend, Caeso Fabius Buteo
> Modianus.
> I have been there many times and it is better than watching the munera.
>
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvam et servatam volunt

Hodie est ante diem XVI Decembris; haec dies comitialis est: Dies
Natalis Ti. Claudi Caesari

AUC DCCXI /42 BCE Birth of Emperor Tiberius (Claudius Nero Caesar)

AUC 112 / 641 BCE Death of Tullus Hostilius by a lightning bolt

"Tradition records that the king, whilst examining the commentaries
of Numa, found there a description of certain secret sacrificial
rites paid to Jupiter Elicius: he withdrew into privacy whilst
occupied with these rites, but their performance was marred by
omissions or mistakes. Not only was no sign from heaven vouchsafed to
him, but the anger of Jupiter was roused by the false worship
rendered to him, and he burnt up the king and his house by a stroke
of lightning. Tullus had achieved great renown in war, and reigned
for two-and-thirty years." ~ Livy 1.31.8

"L. Piso informs us, in the first Book of his Annals, that King
Tullus Hostilius, while attempting, in accordance with the books of
Numa, to summon Jupiter from heaven by means of a sacrifice similar
to that employed by him, was struck by lightning in consequence of
his omission to follow certain forms with due exactness. Many other
authors, too, have attested, that by the power of words a change has
been effected in destinies and portents of the greatest importance."
~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 20.4

"Tullus Hostilius was struck by a thunderbolt and burnt up with his
whole house. A singular fatal lot, through which the City's crown,
snatched away in the City itself, could not be glorified by the
Citizens with the final honor of a funeral and was reduced by
celestial fire to a condition such that his Penates, his Regia, his
pyre, and his sepulcher were all one and the same." ~ Valerius
Maximus 12.1

Our thought for today is from Epictetus" Enchiridion 26

"The will of Nature may be learned from things upon which we are all
agreed. As, when our neighbor's boy has broken a cup, or the like, we
are ready at once to say, 'These are casualties that will happen;' be
assured, then, that when your own cup is likewise broken, you ought
to be affected just as when another's cup was broken. Now apply this
to greater things. Is the child or wife of another dead? There is no
one who would not say, 'This is an accident of mortality.' But if any
one's own child happens to die, it is immediately, 'Alas! how
wretched am I!' It should be always remembered how we are affected on
hearing the same thing concerning others."

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I spoke with senator Patricia Cassia last year when I was Consul, and
I told her that I supported her as a pontifex and that I would work to
help make that happen. I briefly discussed with her the intended
reform of the Religio, and I spoke to Marcus Cassius Julianus about
this. I even appointed Marcus Cassius an ACCENSUS and asked him,
rather pleaded with him, to spend just an hour a week reading over the
material I presented in the Collegium and in my cohors regarding the
reform proposal -- which was the work of several pontifices.

When I placed the measure up to the Collegium Pontificum for a vote I
e-mailed Marcus Cassius privately reminding him that the CP was being
called into session, and I EVEN sent Patricia Cassia an e-mail asking
her to remind her husband to vote in the Collegium Pontificum. He did
not. Later in the year he claimed, "I didn't notice the CP was in
session." More justification for apathy. He simply didn't take the
time to read the reform (and ignored my private e-mails), and his
criticism of it has never been cogent.

"The interesting thing about this is that Cassia has indicated that
considering all the static about this concern that has been aired on
the Main List no-one has bothered to contact her."

I have attempted to make contact with the two Cassia in question,
albeit last year, to work with them. Once a bridge is burned its hard
to rebuilt it. I've tried to motivate them, but Marcus Cassius seems
ONLY concerned about maintaining a "sense" of power. I'm sick of his
excuses, and I am sick of him doing nothing. I have tried to mend the
differences between us, but that doesn't seem likely. When confronted
with difficulty Marcus Cassius does nothing. This is not Roman, at
least not the Roman I wish to emulate.

Yes, there are politics in Nova Roma. Yes, sometimes it gets "harsh,"
but I have more respect for an individual who will debate and use
reason than one like Marcus Cassius Julianus who walks away whenever
he doesn't get what he wants. Sure, Patricia Cassia applied for
pontifex and was rejected. If I was Pontifex Maximus and my wife
applied to be a pontifex I certainly would not have thrown up my hands
and given up. Gaius Iulius Scaurus was supposed to "research" the
viability of women pontifices in Nova Roma and after we waited six
months for his "brilliant" scholarship all we got was a paragraph or
two claiming that women pontifices was a bad idea (yet the precedent
had already been established in Nova Roma). Marcus Cassius could have
conducted his own research, put a team together, etc... He didn't.

What several of us pontifices did was put together our ideas and we
came up with a comprehensive reform of the Religio Romana. I
presented this reform in the senate, in the collegium pontificum, and
here on the main list for comment and discussion. I never said the
reform proposal was perfect. However, Marcus Cassius Julianus didn't
comment on it. He offered no input, comment, or help. He waited
until after the measure had passed in the collegium and months later
was being voted on in the senate. In addition to being the Pontifex
Maximus he was an accensus of mine, but offered absolutely no help.
Contrary to his opposition of the reform, he has made absolutely NO
new proposal. He has also offered absolutely no reasonable criticism
of the reform, other than to oppose it. As consul, with Marcus
Cassius Julianus and I working together we could have made a
difference with reference to the Religio Romana of Nova Roma. He took
the easy way out as he has done since I have been in the Collegium
Pontificum (i.e., 2002).

"She and Cassius are very involved in the Religio Romano, and that
refusal has drained much of the energy and excitement of NR from them
according to her."

I understand the feeling. It took three applications for augur before
that was finally granted. Imagine what state Nova Roma would be in if
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur where the only augur in Nova Roma!
It is disappointing when one is rejected! The Collegium Pontificum
was recently convened to vote on several priesthood applications.
Some of the people who applied have been turned down before, and they
were turned down again. Both of these candidates are VERY qualified
in my opinion to be augures, yet that has been denied them! I
certainly hope they don't loose their excitement and energy for Nova
Roma! It is simply NOT Roman to give up because you didn't get your
way. You simply find a way.

"Finally, if anyone wants any further details they are most cordially
invited to contact the Cassi and ask them directly instead of the
never-ending discussions about the question without knowing the
answers."

I have tried that, for far too long. If I were to contact Marcus
Cassius about why he has not posted once this year within the
Collegium Pontificum I'm sure I'll get another litany of excuses.

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote, "For the Romans were the strong and noble,
and nobody stronger and nobler has yet existed on earth or even been
dreamed of: every remnant of them, every inscription gives delight, if
only one divines what it was that was there at work." This is the
sort of Roman I wish to strife for. Not the one who does nothing when
presented with obstacles.

Valete:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

Note: Sent to the Nova Roma main list, Marcus Cassius Julianus,
Patricia Cassia, and Annia Minucia Marcella with request to forward to
the Nova Britannia list.

On Nov 15, 2007 7:07 PM, Marcus Audens <MarcusAudens@...> wrote:
>
> Nova Britannia Members;
>
> As one Senators for this province, I have taken it upon myself to contact
> the Cassi and see if I can't determine what is going on and what the problem
> might be.
>
> The long and short of it is that since the Pontificum has refused to allow
> Patricia to take up a requested priesthood she has lost most of her interest
> in Nova Roma. She and Cassius are very involved in the Religio Romano, and
> that refusal has drained much of the energy and excitement of NR from them
> according to her. After all, as she as indicated, that was the reason in the
> beginning for the establishment of NR by the Cassi and the other gentleman.
>
> However, Patricia is working behind the scenes at her presently assigned
> tasks and speaks regularly with the Consul regarding her duties and
> responsibilities.
>
> Cassius was not present when I talked to Cassia, and she has quite properly
> declined to speak for him on the matter of the Pontifex Maximus. I asked her
> to ask Marcus to contact me and talk about this when he is available, and
> she has agreed to do so.
>
> Cassia has aid to me that she is not against giving up her responsibilities
> and positions in Nova Roma. However, she would require a serious plan and
> personnel to be proposed in order to insure that Nova Roma would continue as
> it has been under her efforts.
>
> The interesting thing about this is that Cassia has indicated that
> considering all the static about this concern that has been aired on the
> Main List no-one has bothered to contact her. Apparently I was the first one
> to do so, and that only because the Governor of Nova Britannia asked if
> anyone had talked to the Cassi recently.
>
> As most of you know, I do not involve myself much on the main list as there
> is entirely too much politics and character bashing which goes on there for
> my taste, together with much talk and little action, and that is not what I
> joined Nova Roma for. I had been informed that such had been moderated, but
> the few messages that I read today seemed to me to be as bad as ever.
> However, when the NB Governor posted a message, I went on the Main List to
> see what the concern was all about.
>
> Anyway, such is the latest from the Cassi, and I have permission from
> Senator Cassia to put this information on the Main List. Finally, if anyone
> wants any further details they are most cordially invited to contact the
> Cassi and ask them directly instead of the never-ending discussions about
> the question without knowing the answers.
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Audens

Titus Flavius Aquila omnes civibus Novae Romae S·P·D

Salvete Quirites,

I am honored and would like to thank you very much for your support !

If the election is confirmed and validated by the Comitia Plebis
Tributa Plebiscitum de consecratione, I will protect the people of
Nova Roma and our republic to the best of my ability, this I vow to
the mighty Roman Gods.

Di vos incolumes custodiant

Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris GFBM
Tribunus Designatus Nova Roma

Here you are, time for voting!
Starting today and until December 15th 2007 you can vote among all the
chosen monuments in the

past days.

This is the list

1.Amphiteatheater Flavius, also called Colosseum, in Rome
2.Amphiteatheater in Pollenzo, Italy
3.Amphiteatheater in Sabratha, Libia
4.Arch of Titus in Rome
5.Arch of Constantine in Rome
6.Arch of Septimius Severus in Leptis Magna, Libia
7.Aqueduct of Appius Claudius in Rome
8.Aqueduct-bridge Du Gard, France
9.Aqueduct of Segovia, Spain
10.Ara Pacis in Rome
11.Basilica of Massentius in Rome
12.Library of Celso in Ephesus, Turkey
13.Circus of Massentius in Rome
14.Circus Maximus in Rome
15.Complex Sanctuary of Fortuna Primigenia in Palestrina, Rome
16.Curia Iulia at the Roman Forum, Rome
17.Domus Aurea in Rome
18.Insula called of the Thermopolium in Ostia, Rome
19.Insulacalled of Diana in Ostia, Rome
20.Hippodromes and Domus Augustana on the Palatine hill, Rome
21.Mausoleum of Plauti in Tivoli, Rome
22.Mausoleum of Hadrian, today Castel Sant'Angelo, Rome
23.Mausoleum of Augustus in Rome
24.Trajan Markets in Rome
25.Aurelian Walls in Rome(by Via delle Mura Latine)

26.Servian Walls in Rome(by Termini railway station)
27.Pantheon in Rome
28.Piscina Mirabilis in Bacoli, NA
29.Bridge Elio (detto "of Castel Sant'Angelo) in Rome
30.Bridge Fonnaia a Massa Martana, Italy
31.Bridge of Tiberio a Rimini
32.Gate of Mitridas in Ephesus, Turkey
33.Porta Nigra in Treur, Germany
34.Porta Palatina in Turin, Italy
35.Ports of Claudius and Trajan in Fiumicino (Rome)
36.Roman road in Donnes, Italy
37.Roman Theatre of Benevagienna, Italy
38.Roman Theatre of Orange, France
39.Roman Theatre of Verona, Italy
40.Temple of Augustus and Livia in Vienne, France
41.Temple of Clitumnus, at the "fonti del Clitumno", Italy
42.Temple of Diana in Nimes, France
43.Bath of Caracalla in Rome
44.Bath of Diocletian in Rome
45.Hadrian Wall, United Kingdom
46.Via Appia at III mile in Rome
47.Via Appia at IV-V mile in Rome
48.Villa of Hadrian and its Canopo in Tivoli, Rome
49.Villa of Misteri in Pompei, Italy
50.Villa of Quintili in Rome

To these addresses you'll find these lists where you can vote with
your seven options (we have

two lists as Yahoo! only allows 25 choices):

http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia/surveys?id=12675866
and
http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia/surveys?id=12675882

To vote you have to be subscribed to NR_Italia@yahoogroups.com Yahoo!
group (NB. to subscribe

just send an email to NR_Italia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and just
follow the ofrections please).

So, let's begin

Ass.Pomerium

Salvete Omnes,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus and I founded Nova Roma with a strong
vision; to rebuild Republican Rome as a viable political and religious
entity in the real world. We were striving to plant the seeds toward
building nothing less than a viable new Sovereign Nation, and to restore
Roman Religion as a living modern world faith. It was, and has
continued to be our belief that the two things must go together for
the "genius" of Rome to live again in our times. Years of effort have so
far been put into making this happen.

Unfortunately, I believe that both of these goals and the vision they
make up have been crippled. Perhaps beyond repair. Not from outside
political or social forces, but from Nova Roma itself.

The original vision of Nova Roma was sound. The error was in we
founders not understanding how many people would attempt to change
Nova Roma's foundational goals, efforts and directions to suit their own,
later (and I believe lesser) ideas. As a result we have not focused our
efforts and the power of Rome itself into the world with a clear voice,
but instead have wasted our talents struggling with ourselves.

The original goals of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and myself, and the few
others who also assisted with the founding, have been repeatedly
attacked over the years by competing ideas of what Nova Roma should
be. Ideas that Nova Roma should not be a political entity or sovereign
nation at all, but rather just an organization or a "cultural social club."
Ideas that the worship of the Gods should either be a rote-reenactment
rather than a living religion. Ideas that the Religio Romana should have
no place in the modern world at all.

To a large extent, those later ideas have won. We ourselves have
stripped Nova Roma of it's Micronational (small nation) status. Our
claims and goals of sovereignty are all but removed from our public
information. We are now an "organization" only, something that Roma
Aeterna never was.

The Religio Romana has been tortured to such a point that many dare
not even speak of it here. The only thing that everyone seems to agree
upon is that it is impossible for various religious visions to coexist within
Nova Roma.

Now, it seems that I'm to be removed of all public offices, a final proof
that the original visions of Nova Roma are dead. Perhaps that is
inevitable.

It is true I have been absent. For the most part this has been due to my
personal situation this last year. Like any good Roman I have been
publicly active where I live; in business, as President of the local
Chamber of Commerce, and Master of the local Masonic Lodge. I simply
have not had the time and energy to continue endless fighting here. My
public posts end next month and I had thought perhaps to reenter Nova
Roma then... but it seems that is not to be.

I have always believed in Nova Roma. It grieves me that the person
wishing to remove me from public life here truly does not; Caeso Fabius
Buteo Modianus has done everything within his power to change Nova
Roma from what it was supposed to be to something of his own. He has
used tactics which I consider repugnant to get his way; from holding
being part of secret interest lists, to holding illegal Collegium votes, to
becoming an officer in a rival organization that splintered from Nova
Roma. And, to top it all off, for years now he has had another
organization called "Pax Romana" fully created and ready unveil and
challenge Nova Roma with in case his efforts here failed. He has been
ready to turn on this community in a heartbeat. I have merely turned
away for a time from an overall situation that has become personally
untenable.

I'm not going to fight or debate any of this further. If I'm to be stripped
of everything, so be it. It seems that very little I've done here has made
any lasting difference, not in being co-founder, or years of political
activity; not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or personally
purchasing 10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or putting on
public Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands. That's
rather sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the end is likely
to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into Nova Roma.
That is by far the bigger tragedy. It grieves me to no end that we have
been determined to think so small, and struggle with each other instead
of directing the power of Rome into the world.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae, Senator, Pontifex Maximus

Yay!! You finally found the time to reply!

In my opinion, regardless of your business and masonic lodge stuff,
you shirked your duties here and I would simply prefer a more active
pontifex maximus. I happen to follow the Religio, btw. I joined Nova
Roma because of the Religio Romana.

I don't think you should put down the efforts that people have made
here, considering your efforts seem to be lacking these days.
Something is better than nothing.

I find it funny that it turns out to be true that you only come out of
hiding when your position is threatened. Is it such a bad thing to be
simply be a citizen? It's not like your actually doing anything
anyway! So you could be a citizen, doing exactly what you've been
doing(which is nothing), and then we could have active Pontifex Maximus.

Besides, you still have the Julian Society.

-Annia Minucia Marcella

T.Flavius Aquila Marco Cassi Juliano salutem plurimam dicit

Salve Marcus Cassius Julianus,

many things you have stated sound correct ,reasonable and have my
full support.

Now I have only one question.

Why did you not raise your voice of concern before ?

You had a whole year to prevent these things from happening , now
you regret that they went along.

I am willing to defend our republic ! Our sovereign nation ,as
stated in the constitution of Nova Roma and ask for the support of
any Nova Roman citizen who believes as well, that we are a living
republic and sovereign nation and not a social club, to join me.

Di vos incolumes custodiant

Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris GFBM
Tribunus Designatus Nova Roma

Honored Citizens and Colleagues;

I have read carefully the litany of excuses, causes, determinations and wishes of both Senators Modianus and Julianus.

Regardless of disappointments, I agree that everyone should, to the best of his / her capability live up to their promises and commitments. When that is impossible then those concerned with those promises should be notified. I agree that the excuse "I have no time" is a useless one as well as untrue. Everyone has moments of relaxation, regardless of how busy they may be. A "no energy" excuse seems much more reasonable to me particularly when attacked on this list, and subject to name-calling and listing of one's weaknesses. That can be very energy draining, I find from personal experience here. I also believe that there is no productive purpose to air on this net or any other public net, one's personal disgust and hatred for another, whether the accusations are true or not.

The wonder of it is, that as everyone knows Senator Modianus is far more capable than I both on the internet and in the NR political area. However, it was with no difficulty and some apparent pleasure that I was able to contact Senator Cassia and discuss with her the political clack on the main list. She directed me to issue the message that you have. We laughed and generally had a very pleasing conversation, supposedly enjoying each other's presence.
A situation which over the years I have had no trouble whatsoever in generating. Of course, I had not insulted her or tried to remove her from her positions prior to my contact. Perhaps that may have something to do with the ease and pleasure of our conversation. Had not Senator Julianus been at a local community meeting, I am sure that I should have had the same pleasurable discussion with him.

I apologize to all and particularly to Senator Modianus for the awkward language used by myself that he has pointedly made an issue of. I am afraid that you must credit that concern to my poor education and "lower deck" background.

In closing, I too have been disappointed with the unkept promises relating to personages close to this concern.

However, it seems to me, that with the energy directed toward maintaining Nova Roma, and the energy expended in creating this Sovereign nation, social organization, or whatever, the founders should eternally be held in respect and awe for their signature accomplishments. It further seems to me that whatever positions or honors have been accorded them, should be honored by all, unless, of course, these positions are coveted / desired by another. That concern always trumps admiration for past accomplishments.

Senator Modianus is quite right in his comment about the harshness of Nova Roma politics. I have, because I considered it my duty as a Senator from Nova Britannia, contacted the Cassi because of the previous comments made here about them. I have delivered my message to you from them about that concern. With that, now accomplished, I shall again retire into obscurity from this list and again be happy to pursue the reason that I joined Nova Roma:-- Researching a fascinating people and culture. Second-hand politics has little to excite me, particularly over long distances and with people I will probably never meet, and certainly the insults about friends of mine generously spread around on this net, true or not, depresses me greatly.

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Audens



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Cassio Juliano salutem dicit

"I have always believed in Nova Roma. It grieves me that the person
wishing to remove me from public life here truly does not; Caeso
Fabius Buteo Modianus has done everything within his power to change
Nova Roma from what it was supposed to be to something of his own. He
has used tactics which I consider repugnant to get his way; from
holding being part of secret interest lists, to holding illegal
Collegium votes, to becoming an officer in a rival organization that
splintered from Nova Roma."

Caeso Buteo: I would not have invested countless hours of activity in
Nova Roma if I did not care about Nova Roma. Ironically, your vision
of Nova Roma and the Religio Romana is a vision that I share. I think
it should be vibrant and alive, and not rote and dead. I believe in
allowing women to be pontifices, as we have had in the past. However,
it is approach. You have not displayed a workable approach. Yet you
come out of hiding when (and only when) your position is challenged.
Regarding secret lists... Back in 2004 I was a member of the "faction"
known as the Boni, but as I have indicated on this list I rejected the
means in which these people used to further their agenda and left in
August of 2004. Regarding the idea of me holding illegal Collegium
votes, my comment to that is that I welcome any senator on the
Collegium Pontificum list (since when I was consul I advised
interested senatores to join the Collegium Pontificum list to bear
witness to your accusations against me) to search through the archives
to view whether or not my Collegium convenings were illegitimate or
not. Again, you make claims but do not support those claims.
Regarding a "rival organization," this too is a complete fabrication.
There is no doubt that you have abandoned Nova Roma, and the Religio
Romana within it. Several citizens, including myself, had the idea of
actually doing something and started a project known as Pax Deorum.
That project was essentially abandoned by the end of 2005, in favor of
trying to work within Nova Roma. This is why, and I discussed this
with you on phone when I asked you to be my accensus in 2005, several
of us were working to reform the Religio Romana of Nova Roma -- a
project in which we TRIED to involve you. But I have found that I
cannot force you to read your e-mail and I cannot force you to
participate. You only seem interested in Nova Roma when your offices
are threatened. I find this a sad reality.

"The original goals of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and myself, and the
few others who also assisted with the founding, have been repeatedly
attacked over the years by competing ideas of what Nova Roma should
be. Ideas that Nova Roma should not be a political entity or sovereign
nation at all, but rather just an organization or a "cultural social
club."

Caeso Buteo: The word "micronation" was removed because our entry in
wikipedia was threatened because of our use of micronation. The
senate approved the change of the term micronation in favor of the
term Civitas and Res Publica. This is, according to the majority of
our senatores, more appropriate. The senatum consultum
(http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Senatus_consultum_regarding_the_term_Micronation_MMDCCLIX_%28Nova_Roma%29)
did not invalidate the "Sovereignty Declaration," only the term
micronation. The goal has not changed, how we view the goal has
simply matured.

"It seems that very little I've done here has made any lasting
difference, not in being co-founder, or years of political activity;
not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or personally purchasing
10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or putting on public
Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands. That's rather
sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the end is likely
to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into Nova
Roma."

Caeso Buteo: Let us evaluate this. The 10 acres of land you
purchased is in an unusable are of Texas and is worthless land! You
purchased this land and donated it to Nova Roma shortly after one
these posts to the main list (they want to remove me posts). I
suspect the land purchase and donation was simply a smoke screen to
hide that you had done very little and you needed something that would
stir people up to support you. This land is nothing but a liability
to Nova Roma. Regarding the public Roman festivals... where these
events where displays of the Religio Romana where welcome? I was
under the impression that they were not "official' Nova Roma events,
but cultural events you did in conjunction with the Chamber of
Commerce.

"The Religio Romana has been tortured to such a point that many dare
not even speak of it here. The only thing that everyone seems to agree
upon is that it is impossible for various religious visions to coexist
within Nova Roma. "

Caeso Buteo: The only thing that have been tortured is progress. The
calender has been neglected, priesthood applications sit for months
with no resolution, progress has stopped. You do not vote in the
Collegium Pontificum unless you are threatened. The situation is
simply pathetic. Of course, you can blame me if you wish -- as it
seems you have. You can claim all you like that I don't care about
Nova Roma, and that you are the only who truly cares but that will not
make it true.

None the less, you have proven my point. You only surface when you
are threatened, and then its excuses and finger pointing -- but the
finger never points in the direction it should.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 16, 2007 9:45 AM, Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus and I founded Nova Roma with a strong
> vision; to rebuild Republican Rome as a viable political and religious
> entity in the real world. We were striving to plant the seeds toward
> building nothing less than a viable new Sovereign Nation, and to restore
> Roman Religion as a living modern world faith. It was, and has
> continued to be our belief that the two things must go together for
> the "genius" of Rome to live again in our times. Years of effort have so
> far been put into making this happen.
>
> Unfortunately, I believe that both of these goals and the vision they
> make up have been crippled. Perhaps beyond repair. Not from outside
> political or social forces, but from Nova Roma itself.
>
> The original vision of Nova Roma was sound. The error was in we
> founders not understanding how many people would attempt to change
> Nova Roma's foundational goals, efforts and directions to suit their own,
> later (and I believe lesser) ideas. As a result we have not focused our
> efforts and the power of Rome itself into the world with a clear voice,
> but instead have wasted our talents struggling with ourselves.
>
> The original goals of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and myself, and the few
> others who also assisted with the founding, have been repeatedly
> attacked over the years by competing ideas of what Nova Roma should
> be. Ideas that Nova Roma should not be a political entity or sovereign
> nation at all, but rather just an organization or a "cultural social club."
> Ideas that the worship of the Gods should either be a rote-reenactment
> rather than a living religion. Ideas that the Religio Romana should have
> no place in the modern world at all.
>
> To a large extent, those later ideas have won. We ourselves have
> stripped Nova Roma of it's Micronational (small nation) status. Our
> claims and goals of sovereignty are all but removed from our public
> information. We are now an "organization" only, something that Roma
> Aeterna never was.
>
> The Religio Romana has been tortured to such a point that many dare
> not even speak of it here. The only thing that everyone seems to agree
> upon is that it is impossible for various religious visions to coexist
> within
> Nova Roma.
>
> Now, it seems that I'm to be removed of all public offices, a final proof
> that the original visions of Nova Roma are dead. Perhaps that is
> inevitable.
>
> It is true I have been absent. For the most part this has been due to my
> personal situation this last year. Like any good Roman I have been
> publicly active where I live; in business, as President of the local
> Chamber of Commerce, and Master of the local Masonic Lodge. I simply
> have not had the time and energy to continue endless fighting here. My
> public posts end next month and I had thought perhaps to reenter Nova
> Roma then... but it seems that is not to be.
>
> I have always believed in Nova Roma. It grieves me that the person
> wishing to remove me from public life here truly does not; Caeso Fabius
> Buteo Modianus has done everything within his power to change Nova
> Roma from what it was supposed to be to something of his own. He has
> used tactics which I consider repugnant to get his way; from holding
> being part of secret interest lists, to holding illegal Collegium votes, to
> becoming an officer in a rival organization that splintered from Nova
> Roma. And, to top it all off, for years now he has had another
> organization called "Pax Romana" fully created and ready unveil and
> challenge Nova Roma with in case his efforts here failed. He has been
> ready to turn on this community in a heartbeat. I have merely turned
> away for a time from an overall situation that has become personally
> untenable.
>
> I'm not going to fight or debate any of this further. If I'm to be stripped
> of everything, so be it. It seems that very little I've done here has made
> any lasting difference, not in being co-founder, or years of political
> activity; not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or personally
> purchasing 10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or putting on
> public Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands. That's
> rather sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the end is
> likely
> to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into Nova Roma.
> That is by far the bigger tragedy. It grieves me to no end that we have
> been determined to think so small, and struggle with each other instead
> of directing the power of Rome into the world.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pater Patriae, Senator, Pontifex Maximus

Salve, Marcus Iulius Perusianus:

What a great idea! Thanks for the chance to remember some of the greatest
sites I visited in Rome some years ago and for let me see that I need to go
againg to know more places.

Vale.

Gaius Iulius Adventor

On Nov 16, 2007 8:35 AM, Marcus Iulius Perusianus <peraznanie@...>
wrote:

> Here you are, time for voting!
> Starting today and until December 15th 2007 you can vote among all the
> chosen monuments in the
>
> past days.
>
> This is the list
>
> 1.Amphiteatheater Flavius, also called Colosseum, in Rome
> 2.Amphiteatheater in Pollenzo, Italy
> 3.Amphiteatheater in Sabratha, Libia
> 4.Arch of Titus in Rome
> 5.Arch of Constantine in Rome
> 6.Arch of Septimius Severus in Leptis Magna, Libia
> 7.Aqueduct of Appius Claudius in Rome
> 8.Aqueduct-bridge Du Gard, France
> 9.Aqueduct of Segovia, Spain
> 10.Ara Pacis in Rome
> 11.Basilica of Massentius in Rome
> 12.Library of Celso in Ephesus, Turkey
> 13.Circus of Massentius in Rome
> 14.Circus Maximus in Rome
> 15.Complex Sanctuary of Fortuna Primigenia in Palestrina, Rome
> 16.Curia Iulia at the Roman Forum, Rome
> 17.Domus Aurea in Rome
> 18.Insula called of the Thermopolium in Ostia, Rome
> 19.Insulacalled of Diana in Ostia, Rome
> 20.Hippodromes and Domus Augustana on the Palatine hill, Rome
> 21.Mausoleum of Plauti in Tivoli, Rome
> 22.Mausoleum of Hadrian, today Castel Sant'Angelo, Rome
> 23.Mausoleum of Augustus in Rome
> 24.Trajan Markets in Rome
> 25.Aurelian Walls in Rome(by Via delle Mura Latine)
>
> 26.Servian Walls in Rome(by Termini railway station)
> 27.Pantheon in Rome
> 28.Piscina Mirabilis in Bacoli, NA
> 29.Bridge Elio (detto "of Castel Sant'Angelo) in Rome
> 30.Bridge Fonnaia a Massa Martana, Italy
> 31.Bridge of Tiberio a Rimini
> 32.Gate of Mitridas in Ephesus, Turkey
> 33.Porta Nigra in Treur, Germany
> 34.Porta Palatina in Turin, Italy
> 35.Ports of Claudius and Trajan in Fiumicino (Rome)
> 36.Roman road in Donnes, Italy
> 37.Roman Theatre of Benevagienna, Italy
> 38.Roman Theatre of Orange, France
> 39.Roman Theatre of Verona, Italy
> 40.Temple of Augustus and Livia in Vienne, France
> 41.Temple of Clitumnus, at the "fonti del Clitumno", Italy
> 42.Temple of Diana in Nimes, France
> 43.Bath of Caracalla in Rome
> 44.Bath of Diocletian in Rome
> 45.Hadrian Wall, United Kingdom
> 46.Via Appia at III mile in Rome
> 47.Via Appia at IV-V mile in Rome
> 48.Villa of Hadrian and its Canopo in Tivoli, Rome
> 49.Villa of Misteri in Pompei, Italy
> 50.Villa of Quintili in Rome
>
> To these addresses you'll find these lists where you can vote with
> your seven options (we have
>
> two lists as Yahoo! only allows 25 choices):
>
> http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia/surveys?id=12675866
> and
> http://it.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Italia/surveys?id=12675882
>
> To vote you have to be subscribed to NR_Italia@yahoogroups.com<NR_Italia%40yahoogroups.com>Yahoo!
> group (NB. to subscribe
>
> just send an email to NR_Italia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com<NR_Italia-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>and just
> follow the ofrections please).
>
> So, let's begin
>
> Ass.Pomerium
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes et Cassii,

At this point in our "micronational organization" I would like to
ask a request of the Cassii, since I was not present for the
founding of our "ancient space in the modern world."

I would like to here from the Pontifex Maximus et ux, at this point
in time and evolution, what THEIR PERSONAL FEELINGS ARE on the
following: (We already know everyone else's...)

*****************************

I. A restating of their views on what concepts and ideas that Nova
Roma was founded on.

II. What major detours in what areas have occurred that need to be
corrected to move NR back on track to its original concepts. I DO
NOT wish to hear that they cannot be changed...anything can be
changed.

III. An outline of what the major problems of the Religio Romana of
NR are and how they can be corrected. Christians and Jews please sit
this one out quietly and stay off the Rostra. There is a Jewish
Forum and a Christian Forum in NR. This particular conversation is
limited to those interested in the RR.

*********************

My last Commander in the Army had a personal requirement when it
came to problems. If you had a problem with something or thought you
might have a problem with something, he would be very firm in
stating the following to you without apathy, concern or remorse:

"I have an open door policy. Don't come to me to bitch about a
problem. UNLESS you can provide me with at least two alternative
suggestions as to how to correct what you see as a problem, and are
willing to put forth some positive effort to help correct the
situation, stay the hell out of my office."

I would also encourage all of my fellow citizens to read a simple
outline I found somewhere that might be useful for everyone in the
coming year(s). It is a plan for the future, an instructional
course, a business plan for success, a guide book, a code of conduct
for youth, some bathroom notes for others, and the
political/socio/economic elements of a successful Nova Roma,
especially the very last item in the list:


These are the qualities of life to which every Citizen (and,
ideally, everyone else) should aspire. They are the heart of the Via
Romana — the Roman Way — and are thought to be those qualities which
gave the Roman Republic the moral strength to conquer and civilize
the world. Today, they are the rods against which we can measure our
own behavior and character, and we can strive to better understand
and practice them in our everyday lives.

Personal Virtues

Auctoritas ~ "Spiritual Authority" The sense of one's social
standing, built up through experience, Pietas, and Industria.

Comitas ~ "Humour" Ease of manner, courtesy, openness, and
friendliness.

Clementia ~ "Mercy" Mildness and gentleness.

Dignitas ~ "Dignity" A sense of self-worth, personal pride.

Firmitas ~ "Tenacity" Strength of mind, the ability to stick to
one's purpose.

Frugalitas ~ "Frugalness" Economy and simplicity of style, without
being miserly.

Gravitas ~ "Gravity" A sense of the importance of the matter at
hand, responsibility and earnestness.

Honestas ~ "Respectibility" The image that one presents as a
respectable member of society.

Humanitas ~ "Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being
cultured.

Industria ~ "Industriousness" Hard work.

Pietas ~ "Dutifulness" More than religious piety; a respect for the
natural order socially, politically, and religiously. Includes the
ideas of patriotism and devotion to others.

Prudentia ~ "Prudence" Foresight, wisdom, and personal discretion.

Salubritas ~ "Wholesomeness" Health and cleanliness.

Severitas ~ "Sternness" Gravity, self-control.

Veritas ~ "Truthfulness" Honesty in dealing with others.



Public Virtues

In addition to the private virtues which were aspired to by
individuals, Roman culture also strived to uphold virtues which were
shared by all of society in common. Note that some of the virtues to
which individuals were expected to aspire are also public virtues to
be sought by society as a whole. These virtues were often expressed
by minting them on coinage; in this way, their message would be
shared by all the classical world. In many cases, these virtues were
personified as deities.

Abundantia ~ "Abundance, Plenty" The ideal of there being enough
food and prosperity for all segments of society.

Aequitas ~ "Equity" Fair dealing both within government and among
the people.

Bonus Eventus ~ "Good fortune" Rememberance of important positive
events.

Clementia ~ "Clemency" Mercy, shown to other nations.

Concordia ~ "Concord" Harmony among the Roman people, and also
between Rome and other nations.

Felicitas ~ "Happiness, prosperity" A celebration of the best
aspects of Roman society.

Fides ~ "Confidence" Good faith in all commercial and governmental
dealings.

Fortuna ~ "Fortune" An acknowledgement of positive events.

Genius ~ "Spirit of Rome" Acknowledgement of the combined spirit of
Rome, and its people.

Hilaritas ~ "Mirth, rejoicing" An expression of happy times.

Iustitia ~ "Justice" As expressed by sensible laws and governance.

Laetitia ~ "Joy, Gladness" The celebration of thanksgiving, often of
the resolution of crisis.

Liberalitas ~ "Liberality" Generous giving.

Libertas ~ "Freedom" AVirtue which has been subsequently aspired to
by all cultures.

Nobilitas ~ "Noblility" Noble action within the public sphere.

Ops ~ "Wealth" Acknowledgement of the prosperity of the Roman world.

Patientia ~ "Endurance, Patience" The ability to weather storms and
crisis.

Pax ~ "Peace" A celebration of peace among society and between
nations.

Pietas ~ "Piety, Dutifulness" People paying honor to the gods.

Providentia ~ "Providence, Fortethought" The ability of Roman
society to survive trials and manifest a greater destiny.

Pudicita ~ "Modesty, Chastity." A public expression which belies the
accusation of "moral corruptness" in ancient Rome.

Salus ~ "Safety" Concern for public health and wellfare.

Securitas ~ "Confidence, Security" Brought by peace and efficient
governance.

Spes ~ "Hope" Especially during times of difficulty.

Uberitas ~ "Fertility" Particularly concerning agriculture.

Virtus ~ "Courage" Especially of leaders within society and
government.


Valete optime,

Lucius Vitellius Triarius
Quaestor Candidatus

Salvete,

I would like to thank you all in advance for your service to the Res
Pvblica, and especially to the Ordo Plebeii. I look forward to us all
having a very eventful and successful year!

May Ceres watch over each of you as you perform your duties, practice
your rites, and open your mouths.

Valete optime,
Triarius

Salvete omnes,

Today in Ludi Plebeii was arranged the final race of the circenses.
The four chariots were:

Owner: Maxima Valeria Messallina
Driver: Lucius
Chariot: Windchaser
Faction: Veneta

Owner: Lucius Vitellius Triarius
Driver: Giscon
Chariot: Venetus Magnus
Faction: Veneta

Owner: Marcus Arminius Maior
Driver: Barbarufa
Chariot: Rubidea.
Faction: Russata.

Owner: Decimus Aemilius Severus
Driver: Milo Domitius
Chariot: Flamma Vehemens
Faction: Russata

So we had two Blue and two Red chariots in the final. Luckily also
Green and White fans were present and the audience was as spirited as
ever. But now to the race itself!

At the start the two Reds, Rubidea and Flamma Vehemens seemed to take
a coordinated step of blocking the track from the Blue ones,
Windchaser and Venetus Magnus. But the Blues didn�t want to accept
this situation. Soon it was that Windchaser was chasing Rubidea and
flying like wind past it. After the first lap Flamma Vehemens was at
the lead, Windchaser second and Venetus Magnus on par with Rubidea.

During the mid laps of the race Windchaser challenged Flamma Vehemens
and managed to get the first place. However Flamma Vehemens was
vehemently trying to get the lead position back and this slowed down
the pace of both of them. This opened the opportunity for Rubidea and
Venetus Magnus to catch up the leading pair, and soon all chariots
were in a tight group, anyone could win!

At the last laps of the race Venetus Magnus managed to get into
second position after Flamma Vehemens made an error during overtaking
attempt. But there was no brotherly love between two Blue chariots.
Windchaser blocked the way from Venetus Magnus, but Venetus Magnus
was faster to turn at the end of the lap, and got pass Windchaser.
Windchaser then tried to prevent also Flamma Vehemens from
overtaking, but failed, and Flamma Vehemens pushed Windchaser to the
wall, which ended the race for Windchaser.

At the start of the very last lap Flamma Vehemens was right on the
heels of Venetus Magnus, and Rubidea was not long behind either. And
Rubidea had secret: it had been holding up resources in the first and
mid part of the race, and it was now time to attack. With almost like
fresh horses Rubidea suddenly flew past Flamma Vehemens, and at the
turn for the final straight was almost on par with Venetus Magnus. At
the last straight Venetus Magnus did all it could, but it could not
keep Rubidea behind. Rubidea stormed into victory, while Venetus
Magnus finished second, only an inch before Flamma Vehemens.

The results for the final race were then:

1. Rubidea
2. Venetus Magnus
3. Flamma Vehemens
- Windchaser (accident)

Valete,

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanp��)

Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
thule.novaroma.org




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

My congratulations to our new elected Aediles and Tribunus Plebis.

Valete.

C•IVL•ADVENTOR

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis S.P.D.

I would like both Marcus Cassius and Caeso Fabio to take a breath
and remember that you are both Brothers of the same fraternity and
long time members of Nova Roma. It is not good that you two should
argue so in the public forum when you are both doubly bound by
sacred oaths to protect, relieve, and vindicate one another.

As one who is also bound to you both by the same sacred oaths, I
would ask that you both remember that Nova Roma would not exist
without Marcus Cassius but it would not be sustained without Caeso
Fabius.

I have been a citizen of Nova Roma for six years and have had my
differences with both of you and your actions. However, this
doesn't change the fact that both of you are important to our
organization.

Marcus Cassius, my Brother, you have a special paternal duty to the
organization you created with the help of others. You are bound to
call the Comitia Curiata, name candidates to certain offices, and to
uphold the Religio Romana by example and participation. As any
parent knows, his children begin to change as soon as they begin to
develop and that change is not always to the liking of the parent.
I understand how difficult it is to be an officer of a lodge and
have seen the strain that being W.M. can bear down on a person.
However, your duties within Nova Roma are considerably lighter than
those of the F.&A.M. With only a little effort, you could have
fulfilled most of your required duties within Nova Roma or passed
your proxy on to another pontiff to fulfill them for you.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus, I believe that you have been and remain
a positive influence on Nova Roma and I have shared the frustrations
with the political aspects as well as those with the Sacred Colleges
with you. You are not only my Brother, you are someone who I
consider to be a friend. I know how much of a strain you were under
when you had to give up a fraternal office to insure that you would
be able to participate in Nova Roma AND keep up your studies and
your marriage. However, you cannot forget that you owe certain
courtesies to Marcus Cassius regardless of the stress and
frustrations that you have experienced.

Both of you share many of the same opinions about the Sacra et
Religio and how it has been twisted by an inability to reconcile the
historical aspects with the current world. Had Roma Antiqua
survived to the present day, I am sure that She would have had to
struggle with many of the same problems that we have today. It is
up to those who have dedicated and devoted a good part of their
lives over the last nine years to Nova Roma to make our best effort
to see that it celebrates its 10th anniversary and has hope of a
20th anniversary.

Nova Roma must embrace and reconcile both its political and
religious parts along with its modern & historical outlooks, just as
a human being must embrace and reconcile the different parts of
their mind and conscious. If we do not do this, it will lead to
madness and the ultimate suicide of Nova Roma.

I implore Marcus Cassius Julianus to fulfill his duties and remain
as our Pater Patria just as I am sure that Caeso Fabius Buteo
Modianus will continue to his efforts to make Nova Roma an active
part of the world.

Valete.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Marco Cassio Juliano salutem dicit
>
> "I have always believed in Nova Roma. It grieves me that the person
> wishing to remove me from public life here truly does not; Caeso
> Fabius Buteo Modianus has done everything within his power to

change

> Nova Roma from what it was supposed to be to something of his own.

He

> has used tactics which I consider repugnant to get his way; from
> holding being part of secret interest lists, to holding illegal
> Collegium votes, to becoming an officer in a rival organization

that

> splintered from Nova Roma."
>
> Caeso Buteo: I would not have invested countless hours of

activity in

> Nova Roma if I did not care about Nova Roma. Ironically, your

vision

> of Nova Roma and the Religio Romana is a vision that I share. I

think

> it should be vibrant and alive, and not rote and dead. I believe

in

> allowing women to be pontifices, as we have had in the past.

However,

> it is approach. You have not displayed a workable approach. Yet

you

> come out of hiding when (and only when) your position is

challenged.

> Regarding secret lists... Back in 2004 I was a member of

the "faction"

> known as the Boni, but as I have indicated on this list I rejected

the

> means in which these people used to further their agenda and left

in

> August of 2004. Regarding the idea of me holding illegal Collegium
> votes, my comment to that is that I welcome any senator on the
> Collegium Pontificum list (since when I was consul I advised
> interested senatores to join the Collegium Pontificum list to bear
> witness to your accusations against me) to search through the

archives

> to view whether or not my Collegium convenings were illegitimate or
> not. Again, you make claims but do not support those claims.
> Regarding a "rival organization," this too is a complete

fabrication.

> There is no doubt that you have abandoned Nova Roma, and the

Religio

> Romana within it. Several citizens, including myself, had the

idea of

> actually doing something and started a project known as Pax Deorum.
> That project was essentially abandoned by the end of 2005, in

favor of

> trying to work within Nova Roma. This is why, and I discussed this
> with you on phone when I asked you to be my accensus in 2005,

several

> of us were working to reform the Religio Romana of Nova Roma -- a
> project in which we TRIED to involve you. But I have found that I
> cannot force you to read your e-mail and I cannot force you to
> participate. You only seem interested in Nova Roma when your

offices

> are threatened. I find this a sad reality.
>
> "The original goals of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and myself, and

the

> few others who also assisted with the founding, have been

repeatedly

> attacked over the years by competing ideas of what Nova Roma should
> be. Ideas that Nova Roma should not be a political entity or

sovereign

> nation at all, but rather just an organization or a "cultural

social

> club."
>
> Caeso Buteo: The word "micronation" was removed because our entry

in

> wikipedia was threatened because of our use of micronation. The
> senate approved the change of the term micronation in favor of the
> term Civitas and Res Publica. This is, according to the majority

of

> our senatores, more appropriate. The senatum consultum
>

(http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Senatus_consultum_regarding_the_term_Micr
onation_MMDCCLIX_%28Nova_Roma%29)

> did not invalidate the "Sovereignty Declaration," only the term
> micronation. The goal has not changed, how we view the goal has
> simply matured.
>
> "It seems that very little I've done here has made any lasting
> difference, not in being co-founder, or years of political

activity;

> not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or personally

purchasing

> 10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or putting on public
> Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands. That's

rather

> sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the end is

likely

> to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into Nova
> Roma."
>
> Caeso Buteo: Let us evaluate this. The 10 acres of land you
> purchased is in an unusable are of Texas and is worthless land!

You

> purchased this land and donated it to Nova Roma shortly after one
> these posts to the main list (they want to remove me posts). I
> suspect the land purchase and donation was simply a smoke screen to
> hide that you had done very little and you needed something that

would

> stir people up to support you. This land is nothing but a

liability

> to Nova Roma. Regarding the public Roman festivals... where these
> events where displays of the Religio Romana where welcome? I was
> under the impression that they were not "official' Nova Roma

events,

> but cultural events you did in conjunction with the Chamber of
> Commerce.
>
> "The Religio Romana has been tortured to such a point that many

dare

> not even speak of it here. The only thing that everyone seems to

agree

> upon is that it is impossible for various religious visions to

coexist

> within Nova Roma. "
>
> Caeso Buteo: The only thing that have been tortured is progress.

The

> calender has been neglected, priesthood applications sit for months
> with no resolution, progress has stopped. You do not vote in the
> Collegium Pontificum unless you are threatened. The situation is
> simply pathetic. Of course, you can blame me if you wish -- as it
> seems you have. You can claim all you like that I don't care about
> Nova Roma, and that you are the only who truly cares but that will

not

> make it true.
>
> None the less, you have proven my point. You only surface when you
> are threatened, and then its excuses and finger pointing -- but the
> finger never points in the direction it should.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 9:45 AM, Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@...>

wrote:

> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus and I founded Nova Roma with a strong
> > vision; to rebuild Republican Rome as a viable political and

religious

> > entity in the real world. We were striving to plant the seeds

toward

> > building nothing less than a viable new Sovereign Nation, and

to restore

> > Roman Religion as a living modern world faith. It was, and has
> > continued to be our belief that the two things must go together

for

> > the "genius" of Rome to live again in our times. Years of

effort have so

> > far been put into making this happen.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I believe that both of these goals and the

vision they

> > make up have been crippled. Perhaps beyond repair. Not from

outside

> > political or social forces, but from Nova Roma itself.
> >
> > The original vision of Nova Roma was sound. The error was in we
> > founders not understanding how many people would attempt to

change

> > Nova Roma's foundational goals, efforts and directions to suit

their own,

> > later (and I believe lesser) ideas. As a result we have not

focused our

> > efforts and the power of Rome itself into the world with a

clear voice,

> > but instead have wasted our talents struggling with ourselves.
> >
> > The original goals of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and myself, and

the few

> > others who also assisted with the founding, have been repeatedly
> > attacked over the years by competing ideas of what Nova Roma

should

> > be. Ideas that Nova Roma should not be a political entity or

sovereign

> > nation at all, but rather just an organization or a "cultural

social club."

> > Ideas that the worship of the Gods should either be a rote-

reenactment

> > rather than a living religion. Ideas that the Religio Romana

should have

> > no place in the modern world at all.
> >
> > To a large extent, those later ideas have won. We ourselves have
> > stripped Nova Roma of it's Micronational (small nation) status.

Our

> > claims and goals of sovereignty are all but removed from our

public

> > information. We are now an "organization" only, something that

Roma

> > Aeterna never was.
> >
> > The Religio Romana has been tortured to such a point that many

dare

> > not even speak of it here. The only thing that everyone seems

to agree

> > upon is that it is impossible for various religious visions to

coexist

> > within
> > Nova Roma.
> >
> > Now, it seems that I'm to be removed of all public offices, a

final proof

> > that the original visions of Nova Roma are dead. Perhaps that is
> > inevitable.
> >
> > It is true I have been absent. For the most part this has been

due to my

> > personal situation this last year. Like any good Roman I have

been

> > publicly active where I live; in business, as President of the

local

> > Chamber of Commerce, and Master of the local Masonic Lodge. I

simply

> > have not had the time and energy to continue endless fighting

here. My

> > public posts end next month and I had thought perhaps to

reenter Nova

> > Roma then... but it seems that is not to be.
> >
> > I have always believed in Nova Roma. It grieves me that the

person

> > wishing to remove me from public life here truly does not;

Caeso Fabius

> > Buteo Modianus has done everything within his power to change

Nova

> > Roma from what it was supposed to be to something of his own.

He has

> > used tactics which I consider repugnant to get his way; from

holding

> > being part of secret interest lists, to holding illegal

Collegium votes, to

> > becoming an officer in a rival organization that splintered

from Nova

> > Roma. And, to top it all off, for years now he has had another
> > organization called "Pax Romana" fully created and ready unveil

and

> > challenge Nova Roma with in case his efforts here failed. He

has been

> > ready to turn on this community in a heartbeat. I have merely

turned

> > away for a time from an overall situation that has become

personally

> > untenable.
> >
> > I'm not going to fight or debate any of this further. If I'm to

be stripped

> > of everything, so be it. It seems that very little I've done

here has made

> > any lasting difference, not in being co-founder, or years of

political

> > activity; not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or

personally

> > purchasing 10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or

putting on

> > public Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands.

That's

> > rather sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the

end is

> > likely
> > to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into

Nova Roma.

> > That is by far the bigger tragedy. It grieves me to no end that

we have

> > been determined to think so small, and struggle with each other

instead

> > of directing the power of Rome into the world.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> > Pater Patriae, Senator, Pontifex Maximus
>

Salve.
My congratulations to the new Tribunes and Aediles.
I hope they will help Nova Roma to be Roma.
Vale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia T. Flavio Aquilo M. Cassio Julianoque salutem dicit;
I'd supported the PM for many years, but the last straw
for me was his absolute silence concerning T. Flavius Aquila's
wonderful project 'A Temple for the Gods' to establish a temple in
Rome.
Now I wrote to M. Cassius Julianus about this, told him the
cultores were pretty upset about his utter absence & how he could
restore NR's religo by giving his support to this wonderful project.

He did nothing; not even a note...

M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Salve Marcus Cassius Julianus,
>
> many things you have stated sound correct ,reasonable and have my
> full support.
>
> Now I have only one question.
>
> Why did you not raise your voice of concern before ?
>
> You had a whole year to prevent these things from happening , now
> you regret that they went along.
>
> I am willing to defend our republic ! Our sovereign nation ,as
> stated in the constitution of Nova Roma and ask for the support of
> any Nova Roman citizen who believes as well, that we are a living
> republic and sovereign nation and not a social club, to join me.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Scriba Censoris GFBM
> Tribunus Designatus Nova Roma
>

M. Lucretius Agricola M. Cassio Iuliano Omnibusque sal.

Indeed you did produce our first coinage. I had a hand in producing
our second.

When I became involved in that project I did some market research. I
discovered that there is a collectors market for coins such as ours.
People who collect such things had bought our first coins. I read old
messages that they had posted about their experience "with Nova Roma".
In a nutshell, because of the very long delays in fulfilling orders,
on the magnitude of months, many formed the opinion that Nova Roma was
a scam. These negative opinions persist today. The person responsible
for fulfilling the orders was you, and you did not involve others in
what was then seemingly called the "Nova Roma Store".

I have been told by many that you are a good man and an honest one,
but too busy to attend to such things promptly. I believe what I have
heard, that you are good, honest and busy. Our public image was
tarnished, none the less.

You were contacted when we formed the group to make the second coin.
You contributed no more than four messages to the group. You then
communicated via then-curule aedile C. Equitius Cato that you would
not assist the project. You would not put us in contact with the
original mint or make the original dies available to us. We had to
start from scratch. In the end, after months of work, the result was,
I hope, satisfactory. I have not heard any complaints of C. Vipsanius
Agrippa's speed in fulfilling orders.

I do thank you, O Pater Patriae, for your part in starting this Res
Publica. Were I you, however, I would not mention the "Declaratio"
sestertius as a particular laurel. You did it, true, but it would have
been far better done if you had involved others and had shared the
responsibility, rather than keeping everything tightly within your
control.

It is my opinion that the person who "think[s] so small" is the one
who thinks that only he is fit to accomplish good things.

I want to repeat that I believe what I have heard, that you are a good
and honest man. Senator Audens has said so here in public. I have
worked with him, I know him to be able to cooperate with others and I
trust him.

Optime vale, et valete.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Cassius Julianus"
<cassius622@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>

[SNIP]

>
> I'm not going to fight or debate any of this further. If I'm to be

stripped

> of everything, so be it. It seems that very little I've done here

has made

> any lasting difference, not in being co-founder, or years of political
> activity; not producing our flag, or our first coinage, or personally
> purchasing 10 acres of land and donating it to Nova Roma, or putting on
> public Roman festivals which have been attended by thousands. That's
> rather sad... but I fear that not making any difference in the end

is likely

> to be the fate of everyone who has put years of effort into Nova Roma.
> That is by far the bigger tragedy. It grieves me to no end that we have
> been determined to think so small, and struggle with each other instead
> of directing the power of Rome into the world.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pater Patriae, Senator, Pontifex Maximus
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XV Decembris; haec dies comitialis est: Dies
Natalis T. Flavi Vespaiani

AUC DCCLXII / 9 CE Birth of Emperor Vespasian (Titus Flavius
Vespasianus)
http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/vespasian.jpg

AUC 579 / 174 BCE

"It was in this year that the temple of Juno Lacinia was unroofed. Q.
Fulvius Flaccus, the censor, was building the temple of Fortuna
Equestris and was quite determined that there should be no larger or
more magnificent temple in Rome. He had vowed this temple during the
Celtiberian war, whilst acting as praetor in Spain. The beauty of the
temple would be enhanced, he thought, if it were roofed with marble
tiles, and with this object he went down to Bruttium and stripped off
half the roof from the temple of Juno Lacinia, as he considered this
would furnish sufficient tiles to cover his temple. Ships were in
readiness to transport them, and the natives were deterred by the
authority of the censor from any attempt to prevent the sacrilege. On
the censor's return the tiles were unloaded and carried to the new
temple. Although no hint was dropped as to where they came from,
concealment was impossible. Protests were heard in the House, and
there was a general demand that the consuls should bring the matter
before the senate. The censor was summoned, and his appearance called
forth still more bitter reproaches from all sides. Not content, he
was told, with violating the noblest temple in that part of the
world, a temple which neither Pyrrhus nor Hannibal had violated, he
did not rest till he had cruelly defaced it and almost destroyed it.
With its pediment gone and its roof stripped off, it lay open to
moulder and decay in the rain. The censor is appointed to regulate
the public morals; the man who had, following ancient usage, been
charged to see that the buildings for public worship are properly
closed in and that they are kept in repair-this very man is roaming
about amongst the cities of our allies ruining their temples and
stripping off the roofs of their sacred edifices. Even in the case of
private buildings such conduct would be thought disgraceful, but he
is demolishing the temples of the immortal gods. By building and
beautifying one temple out of the ruins of another he is involving
the people of Rome in the guilt of impiety, as though the immortal
gods are not the same everywhere, but some must be honoured and
adorned with the spoils of others. It was quite clear what the
feeling of the House was even before the question was put, and when
it was put they were unanimous in deciding that those tiles should be
carried back to the temple and that expiatory sacrifices should be
offered to Juno. The religious duty was carefully discharged, but the
contractors reported that as there was no one who understood how to
replace the tiles they had been left in the precinct of the temple.

"Fulvius dedicated the temple of Fortuna Equestris (172 BCE), which
he had vowed six years previously when fighting with the Celtiberi.
He also exhibited the Scenic Games for four days and those in the
Circus Maximus for one day." ~ Livy 42.3; 42.10.5

"Not with impunity did Q. Fulvius Flaccus in his Censorship transfer
marble tiles from the temple of Juno Lucina to the shrine of Fortuna
Euestris which he was building in Rome. For it is said that after
this action he was not sound of mind. What is more, he died in the
utmost distress, after learning that one of his two sons then serving
in Illyricum had lost his life and the other had been gravely hurt.
Shocked by his fate, the Senate had the tiles brought back to Locri
(Croton) and thus undid the Censor's impious work by the prudent
sanctity of its decree." ~ Valerius Maximus 1.1.20


The thought of the day is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 10.14

"To Her who gives and takes back all, to Nature, the man who is
instructed and modest says, Give what thou wilt; take back what thou
wilt. And he says this not proudly, but obediently and well pleased
with Her."

Salvete Omnes,

As a new/pending member of Nova Roma I send greetings to all my future
Brothers and Sisters.

I found out about Nova Roma on a search for information about my
family roots. I come from Roman ancestry, and I find the ideals
described in the Constitution to be worthy and worthwhile.

I truely believe in the restoration of Rome as a Physical, Political,
National and Religious entity. I believe that our Nation is not just a
"social" organisation nor a "Micronation" but rather a truely seperate
Organisation that is as "Real" as any other Nation currently declared
and recognised as such for example Australia or the USA.

I do call for Pax. I feel that fighting amoungst ourselves will only
result in driving people away who would otherwise make valuable
citizens of our Nation.

That is just my simple observation on matters,

Valete

Quintus Sempronia Lupus
(Hopefully I can keep this name)
New Citizen

M. Lucretius Agricola Q. Semproniae Lupo S.P.D.

Welcome to the Res Publica Novae Romae! You might like to introduce
yourself over in NewRoman http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/ It
is a group that some of us set up a few years ago to help newcomers
get their bearings. I am very happy to say that some names that I saw
first on that group now appear on our current election page.

I wouldn't say that we are fighting just now. There HAS been fighting,
and it gets ugly, sometimes. I would rather say that we have a group
of energetic and strong-minded people who all have invested a lot in
our Res Publica, and who plan to continue to do so. Just now we are
having a deeply felt discussion about some fundamental issues.

I think that it is natural that people bring different perspectives to
this discussion. This is our forum, so it is natural likewise that the
discussion happens here.

Optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "otterfluff" <otterfluff@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> As a new/pending member of Nova Roma I send greetings to all my future
> Brothers and Sisters.
>
> I found out about Nova Roma on a search for information about my
> family roots. I come from Roman ancestry, and I find the ideals
> described in the Constitution to be worthy and worthwhile.
>
> I truely believe in the restoration of Rome as a Physical, Political,
> National and Religious entity. I believe that our Nation is not just a
> "social" organisation nor a "Micronation" but rather a truely seperate
> Organisation that is as "Real" as any other Nation currently declared
> and recognised as such for example Australia or the USA.
>
> I do call for Pax. I feel that fighting amoungst ourselves will only
> result in driving people away who would otherwise make valuable
> citizens of our Nation.
>
> That is just my simple observation on matters,
>
> Valete
>
> Quintus Sempronia Lupus
> (Hopefully I can keep this name)
> New Citizen
>

Salve Quinti Semproni,

Welcome to Nova Roma!

Vale optime,
Triarius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "otterfluff" <otterfluff@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> As a new/pending member of Nova Roma I send greetings to all my

future

> Brothers and Sisters.
>
> I found out about Nova Roma on a search for information about my
> family roots. I come from Roman ancestry, and I find the ideals
> described in the Constitution to be worthy and worthwhile.
>
> I truely believe in the restoration of Rome as a Physical,

Political,

> National and Religious entity. I believe that our Nation is not

just a

> "social" organisation nor a "Micronation" but rather a truely

seperate

> Organisation that is as "Real" as any other Nation currently

declared

> and recognised as such for example Australia or the USA.
>
> I do call for Pax. I feel that fighting amoungst ourselves will

only

> result in driving people away who would otherwise make valuable
> citizens of our Nation.
>
> That is just my simple observation on matters,
>
> Valete
>
> Quintus Sempronia Lupus
> (Hopefully I can keep this name)
> New Citizen
>

Salve Quinti Semproni,

I would like to welcome you to Nova Roma!

Please be assured, that the restoration of Rome as as a Physical, Political,
National and Religious entity , as described by you, has my full support.

Di vos incolumes custodiant

Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris GFBM
Tribunus Plebis Designatus

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: otterfluff <otterfluff@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Samstag, den 17. November 2007, 07:04:08 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Salvete Omnes


Salvete Omnes,

As a new/pending member of Nova Roma I send greetings to all my future
Brothers and Sisters.

I found out about Nova Roma on a search for information about my
family roots. I come from Roman ancestry, and I find the ideals
described in the Constitution to be worthy and worthwhile.

I truely believe in the restoration of Rome as a Physical, Political,
National and Religious entity. I believe that our Nation is not just a
"social" organisation nor a "Micronation" but rather a truely seperate
Organisation that is as "Real" as any other Nation currently declared
and recognised as such for example Australia or the USA.

I do call for Pax. I feel that fighting amoungst ourselves will only
result in driving people away who would otherwise make valuable
citizens of our Nation.

That is just my simple observation on matters,

Valete

Quintus Sempronia Lupus
(Hopefully I can keep this name)
New Citizen





Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

Congratulations to our newly elected Tribuni Plebis and Aediles Plebis.

Optime valete!

M. Martianius Lupus

Salvete

I'd like very much to thank everyone that has placed his vote on my name. I promise I won't
let them down.

Optime Valete

Salvete omnes,

The Ludi Plebeii is at it's final day today. Many thanks for all
those who have taken part into events, and especially to my ever
working assistants without whom this ludi would have been impossible
to arrange in the form it was arranged.

And don't forget, this is the last day you can see the virtual
theatre show, since tomorrow the theater doors will be closed!

You can see the past couple of weeks events from the Ludi Plebeii
website:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_plebeii_2760_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29

Valete,

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanpää)

Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
thule.novaroma.org




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Saturnine et al,

A very grand set of games! Thanks to you and your staff for the
events of this year, as well as the Curule Aediles. Thanks to
everyone who participated. I hope we have twice as many participants
in the spring for our first new Ludi of the coming year. May the
games continue as well next year.

Congrats to the Rustbuckets (Factio Russata) for winning the
Circenses and to the Grasscutters (Factio Praesina) for attempting
to win it and...uh...where were the Chalkers (Factio
Albata)? ...Were they here? (HEHEHE)

Valete optime,
Triarius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Curius Saturninus"
<c.curius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The Ludi Plebeii is at it's final day today. Many thanks for all
> those who have taken part into events, and especially to my ever
> working assistants without whom this ludi would have been

impossible

> to arrange in the form it was arranged.
>
> And don't forget, this is the last day you can see the virtual
> theatre show, since tomorrow the theater doors will be closed!
>
> You can see the past couple of weeks events from the Ludi Plebeii
> website:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_plebeii_2760_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
> (Mikko Sillanpää)
>
> Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> thule.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

EDICTUM CONSULARE XXIV-MMDCCLX A.V.C.

Ex Officio Ti. Galerius Paulinus

Reposing special trust and confidence in and reliance
on her good qualities, especially fairness, truth, honor,
and ability,

I hereby appoint Equestria Iunia Laeca as Accensi

No oath is required.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Done this day .a.d. XV Kal. Dec. MMDCCLX A.U.C.
at 7:19: pm, Roman time in the consulship of
L. Arminius Faustus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus

17 November 2007

Salvete Omnes,

I would like to thank C. Curius Saturninus for putting on these games.
It was wonderful, even though I did end up third in the final, as
well as fun and exciting to get home and check to see how the races
went over the past week.

I look forward to the next round of games and a russata victory!

D•AEMILIVS•SEVERVS

A. Apollonius Cn. Lentulo sal.

> You shall not vote for me, Corde optime, because of your statement

you

> have written in your previous letter. You will not vote for those who

are

> currently holding any office. I am presently rogator.

Oh dear! Of course you are, I had quite forgotten. In fact I even checked in the album civium, but I failed to notice your rogatura amidst all the other green items which are not magistracies.

Oh, that does make me sad. Well, I must stand by what I've said, although I'm very sorry to do it.


Now, let me just say a bit (not too much, I hope) about the cursus in general.

It is true that there was flexibility in the cursus - certainly before it was regulated by leges, and indeed even afterwards. It's true that there were exceptions. And it's true that the customs changed over the generations. So you are right, in a way, to say that I am overstating the case.

I hope I have not actually said anything which is historically incorrect. I have been careful to speak of customs and traditional requirements, rather than rules and legal qualifications. But it is still true that I am holding myself, you, and our fellow citizens to standards which the majores themselves did not always observe.

The reason I am doing this is that there is a difference between a flexible set of norms and a total absence of norms. There is a difference between exceptions which happen from time to time and exceptions which far outnumber non-exceptions. Rules cannot be flexible and cannot admit exceptions if the rules do not exist at all.

I am afraid that this is where we stand now. The majority of candidates who depart from the traditional cursus do not even feel any need to explain why they are doing it. I suppose some of them do not even know that they are doing it. Nobody comments when they do it. They often beat candidates who are not doing it. It is exactly as if the Romans had no traditional cursus at all.

That is why I take this firm stance. Amidst such lack of respect for tradition, I will be completely ignored if I do not make my message as clear and simple as I can.

I would be very happy if I could be as flexible as the majores were. I would love to examine each candidacy individually and ask, "How radically is this person departing from the cursus? What is the justification? What is the need? What are the special circumstances?" But if I do that, people will accuse me of inconsistency and will ignore what I say. If I say, "I think this is a justifiable exception to the rule", then every candidate for whom I have refused to make an exception will leap up and say that my principles are like water and that I simply use the cursus as an excuse to frustrate the ambitions of people I personally dislike. You have already seen A. Tullia getting ready to say exactly this in the event that I failed to condemn M. Hortensia's candidacy.

You may say that people who say such things are not worth worrying about and that there are people who do pay careful attention to what I say and do understand and thoughtfully consider whatever subtle distinctions I may make between one case and another. But I am afraid the people who pay thoughtful attention are not the people I need to speak to. They do not need to hear what I say because they already know it. The people I need to speak to are the numerous people who either do not know about or do not care about the cursus at all and who seem to be unable or unwilling to see that there is anything between an absolute inflexible rule and a total anarchy.

But please observe that I am not proposing legal rules. It is true that before the lex Villia there was no statutory minimum age for quaestores, but there was nonetheless a very, very strong tradition that people would not run for the quaestura before completing military service, which was usually 10 years and which usually started at about the age of 20. Someone who ran for that office without those 'qualifications' would rarely have been taken seriously.

That is the crucial point. I want to push and drag our community to the point where departure from the traditional cursus provokes scepticism and suspicion and seriously endangers the candidate's chances of victory. That is the only thing which will really persuade candidates to observe the cursus. I do not even want to waste my energy persuading individual candidates to observe the cursus. That would be asking them to behave in a way which would in fact be rather un-Roman: for the Romans, we know, wanted to attain high office as soon as possible, and strained the rules of the cursus as much as they could. It is perfectly Roman, in a way, to run for the highest office that you can get away with. What we must do is stop people getting away with it. And we can only do that by refusing to vote for them unless they follow the cursus.

Now, you and others have quite rightly pointed out that if we refuse to vote for people who ignore the cursus then we will probably not have enough magistrates. I suggest the better and more Roman solution would be to reduce the number of magistracies. The Romans were, as you say, very careful to ensure that there was enough (but not too much) competition for every magistracy. But they did it primarily by adjusting the number of magistracies, not the sequence or the qualifications. That seems to me a better way forward for us.

Finally, you were kind enough to say that I shall be harming the republic and the cause of Romanitas by refusing the hold office for the next few years. I don't think I shall, because I really don't think there is very much that a magistrate in Nova Roma today can do to improve the republic or promote Romanitas. All but two of the quaestores do nothing except act as scribae. The aediles can give ludi, and ludi can certainly help to Romanize our culture, but if I want to give ludi I can always give private ones (a perfectly Roman thing to do, as you know!). The tribuni plebis could perform a very valuable role by preventing the higher magistrates behaving in ways which violate ancient republican constitutional principles, but our lex constitutiva forbids them to do this: they are able only to uphold the leges and the lex constitutiva, which are in many cases the source of our lack of Romanitas, and so in effect they become unwitting or unwilling
enemies of Roman government. The praetores do very little. The consules can legislate, but if I were consul I would be proposing to abolish the lex constitutiva, and I do not believe the senate would permit me to do it, so as consul I would be able to do nothing of any real use. The duties of the modern censores have so little to do with the those of the ancient censores that the office would be totally unrecognizable to the majores. So what good would I do in any of these offices? None at all, except perhaps to keep a worse person out of them, which is not much. I honestly think I can do much more for our community out of office than I could do in it. And of course if any magistrate thinks that my skills would be of use to the republic, he is welcome to seek my advice or ask me to undertake tasks for him.



___________________________________________________________
Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html

Ah, my Lucius is very young and still had much to learn.
Congratulations to M. Arminius Maior and Rubidea. The Reds won this circenses but the Blues will be back and better than ever! So, watch out! Go Blues!

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Veneta
"The Vestal who loves chariot racing!"


"C. Curius Saturninus" <c.curius@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

Today in Ludi Plebeii was arranged the final race of the circenses.
The four chariots were:

Owner: Maxima Valeria Messallina
Driver: Lucius
Chariot: Windchaser
Faction: Veneta

Owner: Lucius Vitellius Triarius
Driver: Giscon
Chariot: Venetus Magnus
Faction: Veneta

Owner: Marcus Arminius Maior
Driver: Barbarufa
Chariot: Rubidea.
Faction: Russata.

Owner: Decimus Aemilius Severus
Driver: Milo Domitius
Chariot: Flamma Vehemens
Faction: Russata

So we had two Blue and two Red chariots in the final. Luckily also
Green and White fans were present and the audience was as spirited as
ever. But now to the race itself!

At the start the two Reds, Rubidea and Flamma Vehemens seemed to take
a coordinated step of blocking the track from the Blue ones,
Windchaser and Venetus Magnus. But the Blues didnÂ’t want to accept
this situation. Soon it was that Windchaser was chasing Rubidea and
flying like wind past it. After the first lap Flamma Vehemens was at
the lead, Windchaser second and Venetus Magnus on par with Rubidea.

During the mid laps of the race Windchaser challenged Flamma Vehemens
and managed to get the first place. However Flamma Vehemens was
vehemently trying to get the lead position back and this slowed down
the pace of both of them. This opened the opportunity for Rubidea and
Venetus Magnus to catch up the leading pair, and soon all chariots
were in a tight group, anyone could win!

At the last laps of the race Venetus Magnus managed to get into
second position after Flamma Vehemens made an error during overtaking
attempt. But there was no brotherly love between two Blue chariots.
Windchaser blocked the way from Venetus Magnus, but Venetus Magnus
was faster to turn at the end of the lap, and got pass Windchaser.
Windchaser then tried to prevent also Flamma Vehemens from
overtaking, but failed, and Flamma Vehemens pushed Windchaser to the
wall, which ended the race for Windchaser.

At the start of the very last lap Flamma Vehemens was right on the
heels of Venetus Magnus, and Rubidea was not long behind either. And
Rubidea had secret: it had been holding up resources in the first and
mid part of the race, and it was now time to attack. With almost like
fresh horses Rubidea suddenly flew past Flamma Vehemens, and at the
turn for the final straight was almost on par with Venetus Magnus. At
the last straight Venetus Magnus did all it could, but it could not
keep Rubidea behind. Rubidea stormed into victory, while Venetus
Magnus finished second, only an inch before Flamma Vehemens.

The results for the final race were then:

1. Rubidea
2. Venetus Magnus
3. Flamma Vehemens
- Windchaser (accident)

Valete,

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanpää)

Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete!

Nova Romans:

Tomorrow, a.d XIV Kalendas Decembris, and Monday, a.d XIII Kalendas Decembris, I will be going to take my Admissimon exams for UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso (Federal University of Mato Grosso) for the major of chemistry, and as a new citizen of new rome, I have the obligation of telling that for you, and I need your support and stimuli to get a good result in those exams.
I really need your support.

I'm hoping to count with your support.

Vale et Valete!

Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---Salve Luci Fideli:

Best of luck to you. I didn't major in chemistry, but I enjoyed it
very much, and you must enjoy it also if you are majoring in it. And
when you enjoy something, you are naturally more inclined to do well
at it...so this is very much in your favour.

As for me,if there was a particular segment of course material I
didn't have a comfortable understanding of, I would review the
pertinent notes from my lectures a couple of times before going to
sleep. I think this helped. And there are psycho/neuro studies I've
since read, which assert that indeed we absorb more data into our long
term memories with this practice. This, and divine help :>)

My best to you amice!

Po Minucia





In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Cantermi" <brunocantermi@...> wrote:

>
> Salve et Salvete!
>
> Nova Romans:
>
> Tomorrow, a.d XIV Kalendas Decembris, and Monday, a.d XIII Kalendas

Decembris, I will be going to take my Admissimon exams for UFMT -
Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso (Federal University of Mato
Grosso) for the major of chemistry, and as a new citizen of new rome,
I have the obligation of telling that for you, and I need your support
and stimuli to get a good result in those exams.

> I really need your support.
>
> I'm hoping to count with your support.
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Citizens of Nova Roma;

As a Senator I have been asked a number of questions by some of the Magistrates within Nova Roma. Some of the questions were very hard for me to answer since the questions concerned citizens whom I consider to be friends. To be perfectly honest and straightforward, I feel that without reference to individuals, you should be the recipients of my responses to these questions. I have pondered this message to you and have decided that it is a right thing to do. If you disagree , you have my permission to delete this message.

In regard to Commitments and Responsibilities for any position offered, if accepted, the acceptor should fulfill all commitments or in the case of an impossibility notify those most concerned and resign the position or at least apologize for the problems caused. This is particularly true if you have taken an Oath in any Brotherhood to do what is right by those who have honored you.

In regard to accusatory, harsh , insulting, and gutter language, I see no need whatsoever for it here in Nova Roma. The reason is that while there are people here who are "thick-skinned" and who can throw off such comments easily, there are also those who cannot. Rude responses and language do not solve any problem, and simply make the matters worse no matter how clever the words seem to those who send them.

There are all classes of people who have different notions regarding improper language. For instance a reference to one's underclothes may be only intended as a joke where many see it as an insult. This is a large problem with the internet,-- Innocent comments can be seen as insults, and the resulting bad feelings can last a long time. Oh yes, you can say "get over it" or "get a life" but that does not help either.

Speaking of those who have "thin-skins" I happen to be one. That is why I am not a good politician. I simply cannot forget what has been said about me or to me if it is not truthful, and I do not forget he or she who has said it. Others including those very close to me cannot see why that is so, and neither do I. That's me, what you see is what you get.

In regard to organizations and cooperation within those organizations, the obstruction of advancement within these organizations should be freely shared, so that all involved understand the cause and need for the negative activity. Once understood everyone in the organization should work very hard to find a concurrent way for the organization to advance towards the goals set by the majority..

In regard to Oaths and Brotherhoods if you do not intend to fulfill those Oaths then one should strongly consider leaving the Brotherhood as a behavior in violation of the Oaths and Tenants of the Brotherhood endangers the Brotherhood to some degree and all those within it. I enjoy being a Mason, NR Senator, former Naval Officer, Husband, and Former NR Magistrate and Holder of the Cursus Honorium, so I am no stranger to Oaths, and the abiding by them, both in a personal and public sense.

A disappointment in selection or advancement may strike people differently.
Some people are more able to recover from such and continue in their efforts unabated and some cannot. For my part, were I suddenly removed from the Sodalitas Militarium, Senior Editor and the Nova Roma Senate, I should have little interest in Nova Roma, outside of my personal friends here.
So I should say that in regard to "disappointment" like thin or thick skins, friends must consider the difference in concern for a rendered disappointment carefully. Results of that disappointment should be worked around quietly and without a fuss . Frustration should be taken out on a post with a gladius!!!!!

Lastly, I believe that everyone or at least most everyone has good ideas sometimes. I believe in looking closely at ideas , particularly those opposed to my own, to find something in them that I can agree with. Perhaps an idea, is simply untimely, or needs financing, or is a new procedure. All deserve the closest consideration, and good reasons (and documentations where appropriate) for any reasons opposing these ideas. These reasons should be shared with one's opponents in a straightforward way in order to develop a viable trust between individuals.

Those are my views, and I try very hard to be true to them. Of course, I am not perfect, but as I grow older, I do get better. To say that the above is easy to do would be ridiculous, however, to pursue the effort I believe will make each of us trust our contemporaries in a more reasonable fashion.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XIIII Decembris; haec dies comitialis est: feriae
Cereri.

AUC 548 / 205 BCE

"Leaving the detachment which had captured the citadel, with
Pleminius in command, to protect the city, he returned with the
troops he had brought to Messana. After their secession from Rome the
Locrians had met with such tyrannical and brutal treatment from the
Carthaginians, that they could have submitted to ordinary ill-usage
not only with patience but almost with cheerfulness. But, as a matter
of fact, Pleminius so far surpassed Hamilcar, his soldiers so far
surpassed the Carthaginians in criminality and greed that they seemed
to be rivalling one another in vice, not in courage. Nothing that can
make the power of the strong hateful to the weak and defenceless was
left undone by the general and his men in their conduct towards the
townsmen. Unspeakable outrages were inflicted on their persons, their
wives and their children. Their rapacity did not shrink even from
sacrilege; not content with plundering the other temples it is
recorded that they laid hands on the treasury of Proserpine, which
had always been undisturbed, except by Pyrrhus, and even he restored
the plunder and made a costly offering to expiate his sacrilegious
deed. As on that occasion the king's ships, tempest tossed and
shattered, brought to land nothing that was uninjured, except the
sacred money of the goddess, so now by a disaster of a different kind
the same money drove all who were contaminated by the violation of
her temple to such a pitch of frenzy that general was turned against
general, and soldier against soldier in all the madness of mortal
strife. Pleminius was in supreme command, and he had with him the
troops he had brought from Regium, the rest were under the military
tribunes. One of his men was running off with a silver cup which he
had stolen from a house, and the owners were running after him. He
happened to meet Sergius and Matienus, the military tribunes, who
ordered the cup to be taken from him. A dispute arose, angry shouts
were raised, and at last a regular fight began between the soldiers
of Pleminius and those of the military tribunes. As first one and
then another ran up and joined his own side, the number and noise of
the combatants went on increasing. Pleminius' party were worsted and
ran to their commander with loud and angry shouts, showing him their
wounds and blood-stained armour, and repeating the insulting language
which had been used about him in the quarrel. He was furious, and
rushing out of his house summoned the tribunes before him, and
ordered them to be stripped and the rods got ready. This took some
time, for they struggled and appealed for help to their men, who,
excited by their recent victory, ran up from all parts as though they
had been summoned to arms to repel an attack. When they saw the
persons of their tribunes actually outraged by the rods they were
kindled into ungovernable fury, and without the slightest respect for
the majesty of office or even for humanity, they grossly maltreated
the lictors, and then having separated Pleminius from his men and
hemmed him in, they slit his nose and ears and left him half dead.
All this was reported to Scipio at Messana, and a few days later he
came in a six-banked galley to Locri, where he held a formal enquiry
into the causes of the disturbance. Pleminius was acquitted and
retained his post; the tribunes were declared to be guilty and thrown
into chains with a view to their being sent to Rome. Scipio then
returned to Messana, and from there proceeded to Syracuse. Pleminius
was beside himself with rage. He considered that Scipio had treated
his wrongs far too lightly, and that the only man who could assess
the penalty was the man who had suffered the outrage. The tribunes
were dragged before him, and after undergoing every torture which the
human body can endure, were put to death. Even then his cruelty was
not satiated and he ordered the bodies to be cast forth unburied. He
exercised the same savage cruelty upon the leading citizens of Locri,
who he learnt had gone to Scipio to complain of his misconduct. The
shocking proofs he had already given of his lust and greed amongst
the allies of Rome were now multiplied in his fury, and the shame and
odium they created recoiled not only on him but on his commander-in-
chief as well." ~ Livy 29.8.6 - 29.9

"To be sure no less zealously did (the Senate) visit just punishment
onthe criminal avarice of Scipio's Legatus Pleminius in despoiling
the treasury of Proserpina, giving orders that he be hauled in chains
to Rome, where before trial he died in prison of a horrible kind of
disease. The Goddess by command of the same Senate recovered the
money and that in double the amount." ~ Valerius Maximus 1.1.21


Our thought for today, 18 November, is from Epictetus' Enchiridion 27

"As a mark is not set up for the sake of missing the aim, so neither
does the nature of evil exist in the world."

> A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Eventually one does get to the correspondence.
>
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
>>>> >>> ATS: Presumably that is how we grow in our Romanitas. Others,
> however,
>>>> >>> have been sternly rebuked for far less adventurous leaps up the
> ladder we
>>>> >>> call the cursus honorum. Where is Cordus when we need him?
>
> Here I am.
>
> ATS: Tandem!
>
> Yes, we have a lot of people skipping gaily all over the cursus this year, and
> I was going to say something about it when the polls opened, but my internet
> access has been a bit erratic this week and I missed the boat. But now that
> A. Tullia has mentioned it, I'll talk about it now.
>
> In the past, around this time of year, I have made comments about which
> candidates I support and which I don't. In deciding which candidates to
> support, one important factor has always been whether the candidate in
> question is following the traditional cursus or not. I hoped that making this
> factor prominent would have an impact on future candidates and would encourage
> people to stand only for those offices for which they would have been regarded
> as qualified in the old republic.
>
> ATS: That has been one of your main issues...but there are others far
> more important.
>
>
> It has plainly not had any such effect. Indeed, disregard of the cursus has
> got worse and worse over the last few years. I don't know why people stand
> for offices when they shouldn't. In some cases perhaps it is blind ambition.
> In some cases I suspect they are coaxed or even bullied into it by political
> allies who are afraid of letting their opponents stand unopposed.
>
> ATS: Just possibly there may be other reasons, too, Corde.
>
>
> I need hardly bother to say that these are not good reasons.
>
> ATS: No, they aren¹t, but things are not always what they appear to be.
>
>
> In other cases I am sure there is a genuine feeling that the higher
> magistracies must be filled, and that if there are not enough qualified
> candidates then it is necessary for the good of the republic for unqualified
> people to stand. I recognize that people who hold this view do so in good
> faith and truly want the best for Nova Roma. But they are wrong. The
> ultimate objective of every political decision in Nova Roma should be to
> promote Romanitas. Any decision which encourages un-Roman behaviour is
> ultimately harmful to Nova Roma in the long run. Romanitas is more important
> than filling magistracies.
>
> Any group can have elected executive officers. Any group can call its
> executive officers consules, praetores, and so on. Having the right number of
> consules, praetores, and other Roman-style magistrates does not make a
> community Roman. No community will ever be Roman unless its members behave
> like Romans. But a community can be Roman without consules, praetores, and so
> on. All a community needs in order to be Roman is for its members to behave
> like Romans. If they do that, then their community will be Roman, even with
> no magistrates at all.
>
> Some may say that mine is a counsel of perfection. I have two replies to
> that. First, we are in a sorry state if we regard as "perfection" something
> which the Romans regarded as a bare minimum. Secondly, even if it is a
> counsel of perfection, I make no apology for that. Somebody has to counsel
> perfection, or else nobody will ever aspire to it.
>
> ATS: Vt videtur, arbiter talium factus es.
>
> But let me get back to what I wanted to say. I have tried to encourage people
> not to stand for offices for which they are not qualified according to Roman
> tradition. I have tried to encourage people not to vote for them if they do.
> It hasn't worked. I fear that one reason it has not worked is that I have
> often let people off in the end, saying, "okay, you haven't followed the
> cursus, but since there are no other candidates, I'll support you anyway". So
> you will hear no more of that from me.
>
> This year, and for the foreseeable future, I shall not support any candidate
> for office who is running for election while currently in office. I shall not
> support any candidate who is running for election to an office without having
> previously held whatever previous offices he or she would ordinarily have been
> expected to hold in the old republic in order to qualify for that office. I
> shall not vote for these people. I shall call upon other voters not to vote
> for them. I shall make no exceptions. If I find that I have inadvertently
> made an exception, I shall correct it.
>
> It is therefore with considerable disappoint that I find I am unable to
> support even a single candidate for any of the curule magistracies or for the
> magistracies of the plebs.
>
> I am pleased, however, to be able to cast my vote for L. Vitellius Triarius,
> T. Arminius Genialis, Q. Fabius Maximus, L. Salix Cicero, and Ti. Cornelius
> Scipio for the quaestura; L. Rutilius Minervalis for the rogatura;
>
> ATS: Are you aware that Minervalis, though a citizen of long standing, is
> listed in Centuria LI despite being among those considered assidui on the wiki
> page?
>
> Much as I hate to disappoint you, Corde, I for one had no intention of
> running for office this year. However, the need arose. Granted, we could
> probably do with fewer magistracies; usually one member of the pair is AWOL,
> MIA, or just plain there as a decoration collecting CPs. The consulatus of
> Julius and Caesar is in full force, and not only in that office. Dropping one
> of each pair might make sense, and methinks that three tribuni would suffice
> as well. Dropping one of each pair, however, does not quite make the cut for
> Romanitas, though it would reduce the need for quaestores and perhaps others.
>
>
> AAC: M. Martianius Lupus, C. Aemilius Crassus, Sex. Postumius Albus, and C.
> Julius Adventor for the diribitura; and Step. Ullerius Venator for the
> custoditas. I wish them all success, and I hope that they will continue to
> observe the traditional cursus and the traditional intervals between offices
> as they advance in their careers.
>
> ATS: And some of them are new citizens...
>
> AAC: And, like lieutenant Columbo, I want to say one more thing. One or two
> of you may be thinking, "well, Cordus is not currently holding any office and
> has been quaestor, so why is he not running for aedilis, tribunus, or any
> lesser office?" Here is the answer. Last year I criticized A. Tullia for
> standing for the praetura when she had not been quaestrix, aedilis, or
> tribuna. She said that I was being inconsistent because I myself had been
> quaestor when I was under 30, which in the ancient republic was the minimum
> age for that office.
>
> ATS: Your average patrician is ineligible for the tribunate, and the
> aedilitas was not required in antiquity due to its cost...or at least that is
> what I have heard. I mentioned this last year, but this year we have a truly
> exceptional leap over the cursus, skipping the praetura and the consulatus to
> seek the censura, though to be honest, that is not the most important issue in
> this case. I mentioned that you were below the age specified in antiquity
> when you held the quaestura, but that was not to criticize you, for that is
> acceptable under NR law...as was proceeding from the rogatura to the praetura,
> though I suspect that proceeding from ad hoc scriba to the censura does not
> fall into that category, even if the aedilitas and the tribunatus had been
> completed.
>
> AAC: I am still uncertain in my own mind whether the minimum age of 30 is one
> which should be observed in Nova Roma. There are sensible arguments against
> it, principally that it was at least partly meant to allow time for ten years'
> military service, something which we lack in Nova Roma. But on the other hand
> there is the argument, which I have often made myself on other points, that we
> should always do what the Romans did unless there is some very compelling
> reason not to. Is there a very compelling reason to change the minimum ages
> observed in the old republic? I'm not sure. It's something I need to think
> further about.
>
> ATS: And what about the minimum age for the consulatus: 42, if memory
> serves? And for the other offices?
>
> AAC: But I will not tolerate the suggestion that I am inconsistent or a
> hypocrite.
>
> ATS: I hardly think you are a hypocrite, if that is what you are
> implying. You may, however, be somewhat inconsistent in that you rebuked me
> for a minor, perfectly legal, jump in offices last year whereas you appear to
> be ignoring a glaring one this year.
>
> AAC: If I can be accused of hypocrisy then it gives people carte blanche to
> ignore what I have to say. And my own political career is less important to
> me than that I should be able to speak and have what I say taken seriously. I
> cannot do that as long as there is even a suggestion that I do not practice
> what I preach. So, like Caesar's wife, I must be above reproach.
>
> So although I do not hold this year's candidates to so high a standard, I do
> hold myself to it. I shall not hold any elected magistracy until the age at
> which I could have held it in the old republic. Do not expect to see me in
> office until at least 2012.
>
> ATS: That is unfortunate. I think you would make a fine magistrate.
> Fortunately for you, however, you are young, and have many years to
> contemplate office in NR, assuming that NR is still around. Those of us who
> are not so young, however, have to face the reality that we might not be
> around, or healthy enough, to do such things. We might want to make a
> difference, as I did when I wanted to get the Tabularium into some sort of
> decent order...and you know what happened then, and probably why it did. The
> good of the RP may not have entered into the equation.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> __________________________________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica magistratibus, praesertim consulibus censoribus,
quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

As noted briefly in my previous message, I wondered about the status of
rogatorian candidate Minervalis, who is listed among the assidui on the wiki
page for that, but somehow is in Centuria 51 when one plows through the
century memberships. There seems to be an inconsistency here as he is a
citizen of long standing, not a newbie, and apparently has paid his tax, or
would not be listed on the wiki page, or presumably have run for office. Is
C no longer restricted to the CC¹s? His Album page lists him as CC,
however. Knowing the deliberate speed at which tax payments are processed,
anything is possible; the payment may simply not have been processed. Could
someone please clarify?

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Octavio Graccho quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> This was delayed due to a computer problem affecting the ML box.
>
> Salve Praetrix,
>
> I no longer read this list regularly, but a friend alerted me about
> your latest complaints.
>
> ATS: Not everything, or even most things, I say are complaints. Some are
> statements of facts, while others fall into other categories.
>
>
>> > ATS: Everyone, particularly magistrates and apparitores,
>> > should check his or her CPs, for strange things may be going
>> > on there. Sodality heads are supposed to have 10 CPs for
>> > every headship, senior officers, 6, and junior officers, 3,
>> > but it seems that several now have six, whether or not they hold
>> > appropriate positions, plus one or two sodalitates have no
>> > points at all allocated to their officers.
>
> Early this year, I had some wonderful plans for making sodalitates a
> first-class feature of the website; with ability to join at will,
> editor programs so sodalitas bosses could see member information and
> appoint officers with custom titles, private message boards, awards
> and honours, mailing lists...
>
> ATS: Sounds wonderful.
>
>
> but most of this was not built, and
> likely never will be.
>
> ATS: That is indeed a pity.
>
>
> Only the join/quit feature, and records for
> those officers I was able to identify at the time, exist.
>
> At this point, I think it would be best to just delete the sodalitas
> feature entirely, as it is unlikely to be finished,
>
> ATS: IMHO, it would be far better to reinstate what existed earlier, or
> the link, so that we could at least perform some of these functions.
>
>
> and as it stands
> now it just provides fuel for the conspiracy theorists.
>
> ATS: What conspiracy theorists? I for one have no theories about
> conspiracies, though certain things look mighty suspicious, and, while I hate
> to upset Lucretius, you, or anyone else, must inform you that I do not suffer
> from paranoia. Rapanoia, however, as one professor of education termed the
> absence of justified concern in such matters, however, is equally absent.
>
> Several of our citizens who are sodality officers have CPs missing, and a
> couple have excess ones for offices they no longer hold. Is that fair to
> them, or to the citizenry? I don¹t think so.
>
>
>> > Additionally, those who sit in the Senate for other than
>> > reporting purposes are supposed to have extra CPs, too, since
>> > they are working for the Res Publica, but those have been denied
>> > to those who serve magistracies which have in the past
>> > carried automatic Senate membership,
>
> Sorry, Praetrix, but you're not a Senator, and you won't be one
> anytime in the near future.
>
> ATS: You know, Octavi, coming as it does from one who is both a censor
> and the webmaster, and therefore in charge of both the Senate rolls and all of
> our cybernetic matters, this sounds rather like a threat. One does not need
> to be paranoid (as I surely am not) to see that. Of late both of you have
> seemed to bear ill will toward me, and that, too, for no reason, certainly
> none pertinent to NR.
>
>
> If you feel your points are lacking,
> blame those who make "laws" without consulting the architects of the
> website about unintended side effects.
>
> ATS: I¹m not quite sure how this fits in. We do have laws; this is a
> government, and governments have laws. However, the unjust application of
> laws or powers, depriving citizens of CPs, apparitorships, or what have you at
> someone¹s whim is another matter. There are legitimate reasons for dismissal
> and other matters, but animosity, particularly that stemming from irrelevant
> factors, should not be one of them. Deprivation of earned CPs, should, of
> course, never enter into the equation. Please note that this is a generic
> statement, not meant to apply to you.
>
>> > This sort of thing should be automatic, not a place where those
>> > who have the power and bear ill will against other citizens can
>> > penalize those whom they dislike.
>
> Century assignment is fully automatic.
>
> ATS: I suspected as much.
>
> I'll mail you a copy of the
> program if you'd like to see it.
>
>
> ATS: That¹s very kind of you, but as you should be aware, I lack even a
> small part of your very considerable expertise in these matters and therefore
> could not understand it. I do, however, have several friends who are quite
> talented at this sort of thing. As I said privately, the section for
> magisterial appointments of apparitores is wonderful, and I am sure that the
> rest is as well. Your vision for the sodalities is equally impressive; it¹s a
> shame it did not come into being.
>
> It didn't work correctly this year
> for the sole reason that prior-year assidui hadn't been demoted to
> capite censi yet, leading to an artifically inflated number of
> centuries, and to these new capite censi being left in century zero.
>
> ATS: Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the reasons for
> the problems with the program. I¹m sure that the citizens appreciate this.
> Perhaps this has something to do with the tax collection situation this year;
> it¹s the first one in which I did not receive a receipt for taxes paid, and I
> doubt I was alone.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Et tu.
>
> Vale, et valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus A. Cordo suo sal.


I can absolutely understand your feelings and motivation. I can understand why you don't vote for me of others who do not follow the classical late-republican practice of cursus honorum.


You wrote:

>>> It is true that there was flexibility in the cursus - certainly before it was regulated by leges, and indeed even afterwards. It's true that there were exceptions. And it's true that the customs changed over the generations. So you are right, in a way, to say that I am overstating the case. <<<

And:

>>> The reason I am doing this is that there is a difference between a flexible set of norms and a total absence of norms. There is a difference between exceptions which happen from time to time and exceptions which far outnumber non-exceptions. Rules cannot be flexible and cannot admit exceptions if the rules do not exist at all. <<<

And finally:

>>> I would be very happy if I could be as flexible as the majores were. <<<

I agree with you that amidst such lack of respect for tradition, we have to have regulations and we still must remain as flexible as Romans were.

This is why I proposed to consul Paulinus this lex on cursus honorum which would replace his proposal that is too inflexible and overregulate the cursus in a very early period of Nova Roma when it would need flexibility.

This would be more rigorous than the current regulation but still flexible enough. I am curious of your opinion:


******************************************************************************
I. No individual may assume the office of one of the Magistrates (not including the Apparitores) who has not been a registered citizen in good standing for at least six months.

II. No individual may assume the office of Consul, Praetor or Provincial Governor who has not previously completed at least six months of a term as one of the Magistrates (not including the Apparitores).

III. No individual may assume the office of Censor, who has not previously completed at least six months of a term as Consul or Praetor.

IV. Any individuals may run for office prior to completion of these requirements, but must complete it prior to actually assuming the office itself.

V. Individuals who resign their positions prior to the normal end of their term in office may not use that term to satisfy this requirement, regardless of how much time they spent in office.

VI. An exemption to this law may be granted to a person by the approval of the Senate. Such an exemption must be sought prior to the official start of the election in question, and must be granted in order to participate as a formal candidate in the election process. A failure to act on the question of an exemption shall not constitute a tacit approval of the exemption.

*****************************************************************************************


You also wrote:

>>> Finally, you were kind enough to say that I shall be harming the republic and the cause of Romanitas by refusing the hold office for the next few years. I don't think I shall, because I really don't think there is very much that a magistrate in Nova Roma today can do to improve the republic or promote Romanitas. <<<

This is the very sad truth, but this doesn't mean that we don't have to try everything to change that situation. Magistrates don't have real tasks, responsability and power. I personally will try everything next year. Next year, the 10th anniversary of NR, will be a change. The ensurance for this are the new consules and tribuni.

And what you say here:

>>>>All but two of the quaestores do nothing except act as scribae. The aediles can give ludi, and ludi can certainly help to Romanize our culture, but if I want to give ludi I can always give private ones. (...) The praetores do very little. <<<

...means again that there is no reason to make quaestorship obligatory. Any office held before praetura or consulatus would satisfy the requirements for the praetura or consulatus. A higher magistracy would be necessary only before the censura.

>>> The consules can legislate, but if I were consul I would be proposing to abolish the lex constitutiva, and I do not believe the senate would permit me to do it, so as consul I would be able to do nothing of any real use. <<<

Perhaps in time it will permit this. Perhaps next year. Anyway, one day you should have to be consul and I believe you will be an excellent consul with many good decisions, leges, activities which will make NR better.




---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Luci Fideli,

Best of luck to you on your exams! May Minerva watch over you and
give you good guidance.

Vale optime,
Triarius








--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Cantermi"
<brunocantermi@...> wrote:

>
> Salve et Salvete!
>
> Nova Romans:
>
> Tomorrow, a.d XIV Kalendas Decembris, and Monday, a.d XIII

Kalendas Decembris, I will be going to take my Admissimon exams for
UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso (Federal University of
Mato Grosso) for the major of chemistry, and as a new citizen of new
rome, I have the obligation of telling that for you, and I need your
support and stimuli to get a good result in those exams.

> I really need your support.
>
> I'm hoping to count with your support.
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

I noticed this three days ago and e-mail consul Tiberius Galerius
Paulinus. I noticed it while attempting to contact unregistered
citizens for the census and Lucius Rutilius Minervalis was listed as
capite censi and unregistered for the census. Paulinus responded that
he thought Minervalis had paid, and asked for his macronational name
-- which I sent to him.

I have not been instructed to change his status to assidui, and that
should be done by a quaestor. I didn't want to change it because I
don't trust the list. There was another citizen from France I
encountered this year who did pay taxes, but was not one the list of
assidui on the website. So it seemed best for the quaestores to
reconcile the situation rather than I simply change the status myself
-- which I can do if its needed.

I went and checked all the other candidates and they all seem listed as assidui.

Tax payment and tax status has been a major problem this year with elections.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 18, 2007 3:16 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica magistratibus, praesertim consulibus censoribus,
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> As noted briefly in my previous message, I wondered about the status of
> rogatorian candidate Minervalis, who is listed among the assidui on the
> wiki
> page for that, but somehow is in Centuria 51 when one plows through the
> century memberships. There seems to be an inconsistency here as he is a
> citizen of long standing, not a newbie, and apparently has paid his tax, or
> would not be listed on the wiki page, or presumably have run for office. Is
> C no longer restricted to the CC¹s? His Album page lists him as CC,
> however. Knowing the deliberate speed at which tax payments are processed,
> anything is possible; the payment may simply not have been processed. Could
> someone please clarify?
>
> Valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Salve

I have asked that his status be changed to taxpayer.
This will be done in a day or two.

Vale

Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Consul

----- Original Message -----
From: David Kling (Modianus)<mailto:tau.athanasios@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Candidate in C LI?


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

I noticed this three days ago and e-mail consul Tiberius Galerius
Paulinus. I noticed it while attempting to contact unregistered
citizens for the census and Lucius Rutilius Minervalis was listed as
capite censi and unregistered for the census. Paulinus responded that
he thought Minervalis had paid, and asked for his macronational name
-- which I sent to him.

I have not been instructed to change his status to assidui, and that
should be done by a quaestor. I didn't want to change it because I
don't trust the list. There was another citizen from France I
encountered this year who did pay taxes, but was not one the list of
assidui on the website. So it seemed best for the quaestores to
reconcile the situation rather than I simply change the status myself
-- which I can do if its needed.

I went and checked all the other candidates and they all seem listed as assidui.

Tax payment and tax status has been a major problem this year with elections.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 18, 2007 3:16 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...<mailto:fororom%40localnet.com>> wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica magistratibus, praesertim consulibus censoribus,
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> As noted briefly in my previous message, I wondered about the status of
> rogatorian candidate Minervalis, who is listed among the assidui on the
> wiki
> page for that, but somehow is in Centuria 51 when one plows through the
> century memberships. There seems to be an inconsistency here as he is a
> citizen of long standing, not a newbie, and apparently has paid his tax, or
> would not be listed on the wiki page, or presumably have run for office. Is
> C no longer restricted to the CC¹s? His Album page lists him as CC,
> however. Knowing the deliberate speed at which tax payments are processed,
> anything is possible; the payment may simply not have been processed. Could
> someone please clarify?
>
> Valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

I changed him from capite censi to assidui and changed his century
assignment. It can't wait a day or two because voting starts tomorrow
if I understand correctly.

Vale:

Caeso Buteo

On Nov 18, 2007 6:42 AM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Salve
>
> I have asked that his status be changed to taxpayer.
> This will be done in a day or two.
>
> Vale
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> Consul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Kling (Modianus)<mailto:tau.athanasios@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Candidate in C LI?
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> I noticed this three days ago and e-mail consul Tiberius Galerius
> Paulinus. I noticed it while attempting to contact unregistered
> citizens for the census and Lucius Rutilius Minervalis was listed as
> capite censi and unregistered for the census. Paulinus responded that
> he thought Minervalis had paid, and asked for his macronational name
> -- which I sent to him.
>
> I have not been instructed to change his status to assidui, and that
> should be done by a quaestor. I didn't want to change it because I
> don't trust the list. There was another citizen from France I
> encountered this year who did pay taxes, but was not one the list of
> assidui on the website. So it seemed best for the quaestores to
> reconcile the situation rather than I simply change the status myself
> -- which I can do if its needed.
>
> I went and checked all the other candidates and they all seem listed as
> assidui.
>
> Tax payment and tax status has been a major problem this year with
> elections.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Nov 18, 2007 3:16 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica
> <fororom@...<mailto:fororom%40localnet.com>> wrote:
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica magistratibus, praesertim consulibus censoribus,
> > quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > As noted briefly in my previous message, I wondered about the status of
> > rogatorian candidate Minervalis, who is listed among the assidui on the
> > wiki
> > page for that, but somehow is in Centuria 51 when one plows through the
> > century memberships. There seems to be an inconsistency here as he is a
> > citizen of long standing, not a newbie, and apparently has paid his tax,
> or
> > would not be listed on the wiki page, or presumably have run for office.
> Is
> > C no longer restricted to the CC¹s? His Album page lists him as CC,
> > however. Knowing the deliberate speed at which tax payments are
> processed,
> > anything is possible; the payment may simply not have been processed.
> Could
> > someone please clarify?
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

P. Memmius Albucius Aedili Plebis Curio s.d.

Just a few lines, added to these already written by other of illustri
cives, to congratulate, you and your assistants, for this year of
Plebeian aedilitas.
If I have unhappily not been able to enter these games, I kept
informed of their progression and success.

You have demonstrated that interesting and well organized games may
draw the attention of mores citizens and that a skilled aedilis is
better for us all than two inactive ones.

Vale Saturnine,


P. Memmius Albucius





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Curius Saturninus"
<c.curius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The Ludi Plebeii is at it's final day today. Many thanks for all
> those who have taken part into events, and especially to my ever
> working assistants without whom this ludi would have been

impossible

> to arrange in the form it was arranged.
>
> And don't forget, this is the last day you can see the virtual
> theatre show, since tomorrow the theater doors will be closed!
>
> You can see the past couple of weeks events from the Ludi Plebeii
> website:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_plebeii_2760_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
> (Mikko Sillanpää)
>
> Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> thule.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

P. Memmius Albucius Pr. Tulliae omn.que s.d.

I confirm, as concerned governor, what our censor and consul have
answered you. Hon. Rutilius Minervalis is an assiduus this year, like
you or me.

Even if the Album's small mistake has been able to let you have, in a
first time, a doubt on this point, I also confirm to you that
Minervalis's status had been well registered, previously, by the
Censorial cohors, specially in a clear relation with myself.

Vale Praetrix, Censor, Consul et omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
Leg. pp. Galliae




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit
>
> I changed him from capite censi to assidui and changed his century
> assignment. It can't wait a day or two because voting starts

tomorrow

> if I understand correctly.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
> On Nov 18, 2007 6:42 AM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve
> >
> > I have asked that his status be changed to taxpayer.
> > This will be done in a day or two.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> > Consul
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: David Kling (Modianus)<mailto:tau.athanasios@...>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Candidate in C LI?
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
> >
> > I noticed this three days ago and e-mail consul Tiberius Galerius
> > Paulinus. I noticed it while attempting to contact unregistered
> > citizens for the census and Lucius Rutilius Minervalis was

listed as

> > capite censi and unregistered for the census. Paulinus responded

that

> > he thought Minervalis had paid, and asked for his macronational

name

> > -- which I sent to him.
> >
> > I have not been instructed to change his status to assidui, and

that

> > should be done by a quaestor. I didn't want to change it because

I

> > don't trust the list. There was another citizen from France I
> > encountered this year who did pay taxes, but was not one the

list of

> > assidui on the website. So it seemed best for the quaestores to
> > reconcile the situation rather than I simply change the status

myself

> > -- which I can do if its needed.
> >
> > I went and checked all the other candidates and they all seem

listed as

> > assidui.
> >
> > Tax payment and tax status has been a major problem this year

with

> > elections.
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Nov 18, 2007 3:16 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica
> > <fororom@...<mailto:fororom%40localnet.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica magistratibus, praesertim consulibus

censoribus,

> > > quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > As noted briefly in my previous message, I wondered about the

status of

> > > rogatorian candidate Minervalis, who is listed among the

assidui on the

> > > wiki
> > > page for that, but somehow is in Centuria 51 when one plows

through the

> > > century memberships. There seems to be an inconsistency here

as he is a

> > > citizen of long standing, not a newbie, and apparently has

paid his tax,

> > or
> > > would not be listed on the wiki page, or presumably have run

for office.

> > Is
> > > C no longer restricted to the CC¹s? His Album page lists him

as CC,

> > > however. Knowing the deliberate speed at which tax payments are
> > processed,
> > > anything is possible; the payment may simply not have been

processed.

> > Could
> > > someone please clarify?
> > >
> > > Valete.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>

Salvete Omnes! I did not know whether to ask this
question here or perhaps on the Religio Romana list,
but can anyone please tell me if it is known what the
color of the paint that a General or Emperor worn on
his face for a Triumph ceremony through Roma?! I read
some where that this facial or skin color is in
imitation of the face and skin color of Iuppiter
Himself according to Roman tradition! I also noted
that this skin color of the Temple statue of Iuppiter
Capitolinus was shown and portrayed in the HBO Rome
Series! Can anyone elaborate more on this, and also
why according to Roman religious tradition Iuppiter is
said to be of reddish (?) skin color?! Is the color
red, or cadmium orange, or terracotta??? One reason is
I am painting a statue of Iuppiter and wanted to be
accurate in painting His skin color according to Roman
tradition. Gratias vobis ago! Valete! GAIVS IVLIANVS


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Salve Gai Iuliane,

A triumphator's face was painted red with something called 'minim.'
This was the used to make the face of the triumphator look like the
face of the terra cotta statue of Iuppiter Optimus Maximus.

I've never seen minim, but Colleen McCullough describes its color as
being similar to terra cotta in her Masters of Rome novels.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...> writes:

> Salvete Omnes! I did not know whether to ask this
> question here or perhaps on the Religio Romana list,
> but can anyone please tell me if it is known what the
> color of the paint that a General or Emperor worn on
> his face for a Triumph ceremony through Roma?! I read
> some where that this facial or skin color is in
> imitation of the face and skin color of Iuppiter
> Himself according to Roman tradition! I also noted
> that this skin color of the Temple statue of Iuppiter
> Capitolinus was shown and portrayed in the HBO Rome
> Series! Can anyone elaborate more on this, and also
> why according to Roman religious tradition Iuppiter is
> said to be of reddish (?) skin color?! Is the color
> red, or cadmium orange, or terracotta??? One reason is
> I am painting a statue of Iuppiter and wanted to be
> accurate in painting His skin color according to Roman
> tradition. Gratias vobis ago! Valete! GAIVS IVLIANVS

Salvete Gai Juliane et Gn. Equiti Marine,

I believe Marinus means "minium" not "minim". Minium is lead oxide
and it was used for millennia to make red paint. Not wise to use on
your face, now that we know lead is toxic, but you can use it for the
statue. A google search will probably help you know how to make it,
but I think you're better off using commercial paint. For the colour,
remember it's the red used in medieval illuminated manuscripts, hence
known as "miniatures".

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta

>
> A triumphator's face was painted red with something called

'minim.'

L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus SPD:

Thank you to all those who placed their trust in me. I will try to
earn it in what will probably be a very busy year.

Sorry I had to disappear for a few days: I suddenly had to go to
Italy for my cousin's burial and when I came back I found a lot of
important discussions went on on this list. Everything has been read
and duly noted, and I will react once I'm in office as tribune.

For the moment, though, I'm going to disappear again as I'm going to
be in Birmingham from next Wednesday to the following Monday.

Optime valete,

L. Livia Plauta

M. Hortensia L. Liviae spd;
to be tribuna plebis is an exciting task so bonam fortunam!
It is a fine thing to see new cives becoming involved and climbing
the cursus.
I hope on your trip that you will be able to meet with the
excellent Britanni:)
bene vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Thank you to all those who placed their trust in me. I will try to
> earn it in what will probably be a very busy year.
>
> Sorry I had to disappear for a few days: I suddenly had to go to
> Italy for my cousin's burial and when I came back I found a lot of
> important discussions went on on this list. Everything has been

read

> and duly noted, and I will react once I'm in office as tribune.
>
> For the moment, though, I'm going to disappear again as I'm going

to

> be in Birmingham from next Wednesday to the following Monday.
>
> Optime valete,
>
> L. Livia Plauta
>

Salve Saturnine:
thank you for the wonderful games. The best ever! Munera,Races,
Epulum Iovi and the amazing Theatrum Saturninus.
optime vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The Ludi Plebeii is at it's final day today. Many thanks for all
> those who have taken part into events, and especially to my ever
> working assistants without whom this ludi would have been

impossible

> to arrange in the form it was arranged.
>
> And don't forget, this is the last day you can see the virtual
> theatre show, since tomorrow the theater doors will be closed!
>
> You can see the past couple of weeks events from the Ludi Plebeii
> website:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_plebeii_2760_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
> (Mikko Sillanpää)
>
> Senator - Aedilis Plebis - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> thule.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>