Salve Lucius Vitellius Triarius ,

all of my thoughts and good wishes are with your son, with you and with your family .

May all the mighty Gods take the pain off of him and support the quick recovery of your son.

I pray especially to Apollo Granus here in Germania to support the healing process for your son.

Vale optime
Titus Flavius Aquila



----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: L. Vitellius Triarius <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 06:03:14 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(

Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius





Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

T. Flavius Aquila Quintus Valerius Salutem plurimam dicit

I am sorry, I have to disagree with you on this matter.

The story of Romulus a mythos ? Interesting thought for a Roman. May I remind you, that
just recently the Lupercale was detected in Roma . Romulus is our heritage, without him there
would be no Rome.

That's why the correct date to use is the Roman date, since the founding of the city in 753, so the correct
date is 2760 AUC.

It is not difficult to use , if you can't remember the date, there are several translation programs in the Internet to help
you to adjust the commonly used date with the correct Roman date. At least within Nova Roma we need to use the
Roman date and I urge especially all Magistrates to do so.

Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris CFBM
Tribunus Plebis designatus

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Q. Valerius Poplicola <catullus.poeta@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 03:48:01 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments

Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:

I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're still wrong.
First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless. What does it
mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and certainly a
"Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to anno domini,
later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the Nova Roman
context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use. Using anno
urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English (the medium
which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as genuineness and
authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the mark. We don't
know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the story of
Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least in the
historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith may be
real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue history
honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756 BCE cannot
be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.

Vale in pace deum.

On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
>
> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> Maior
> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
>
> Hodié a.d. V Kal. Dec. ‡ L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.‡ (MMDCCLX
> a.u.c.) est. "C"
>
>
>
>
> > While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> the earliest
> > conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> standard
> > date, not the "REAL" date.
> >
> > Q. Valerius
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links




Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salus et fortuna Triarius;

Please, never think that the Holy Powers have ever forsaken you and yours.

Sometimes, bad things just happen.

I, too, was bitten by a dog as a lad. Luckily, I managed to keep my
arm in its jaws and the rest of me was safe from its depredations.

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to your boy.

May the Eternal Ones speed his healing.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Salve L. Vitellius Triarius

Our prayers go out to your son for a speedy and
full recovery both physical and emotional.

We also pray that you and yours have the strength to
persevere in the face of this very sad event.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(
>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:03:14 -0000
>
>Salvete,
>
>My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
>old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
>afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
>and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
>enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
>his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
>from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
>They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
>complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
>looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
>Valete,
>Triarius
>

Salve Luci Vitelli Triari,

All my thoughts and best wishes are with your son, you and your family.

I offer my prayers to Apollo, may He help in a speedy recovery of your soon.

May all mighty Gods watch and protect the children of Nova Roma.

Vale optime,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: L. Vitellius Triarius <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:03:14 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(

Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Valerius T. Flavio SPD:

These days, I find it rarer and rarer those who actually know what it means
to be a Roman. Finding the Lupercale no more proves that Romulus existed
than the Parthenon proves the existence of Athena, or your local church
proves the existence of Jesus Christ as God.

Moreover, as you seemed to have ignored, the "Roman" date actually
traditionally used was done via the consuls. But when this started, we can
only guess. Livius and Varro espouse their views, but have you ever taken a
look at what the other Romans had to say about when Roma was founded?
Please, if you have any sort of love for Roma Antiqua, familiarize yourself
with her.

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/chron/roman/chron_rom_cal.htm

Vale.

On 11/27/07, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
> T. Flavius Aquila Quintus Valerius Salutem plurimam dicit
>
> I am sorry, I have to disagree with you on this matter.
>
> The story of Romulus a mythos ? Interesting thought for a Roman. May I
> remind you, that
> just recently the Lupercale was detected in Roma . Romulus is our
> heritage, without him there
> would be no Rome.
>
> That's why the correct date to use is the Roman date, since the founding
> of the city in 753, so the correct
> date is 2760 AUC.
>
> It is not difficult to use , if you can't remember the date, there are
> several translation programs in the Internet to help
> you to adjust the commonly used date with the correct Roman date. At least
> within Nova Roma we need to use the
> Roman date and I urge especially all Magistrates to do so.
>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Scriba Censoris CFBM
> Tribunus Plebis designatus
>
> ----- Urspr�ngliche Mail ----
> Von: Q. Valerius Poplicola <catullus.poeta@...<catullus.poeta%40gmail.com>
> >
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 03:48:01 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
>
> Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
>
> I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're still
> wrong.
> First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless. What does
> it
> mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and certainly a
> "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to anno
> domini,
> later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the Nova Roman
> context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use. Using anno
> urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English (the
> medium
> which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as genuineness and
> authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the mark. We
> don't
> know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the story of
> Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
> remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least in the
> historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith may be
> real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue history
> honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756 BCE cannot
> be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
>
> Vale in pace deum.
>
> On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior <rory12001@...<rory12001%40yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> > I'm fine with an historical discussion.
> >
> > But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> > legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> > synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> > Maior
> > ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
> >
> > Hodi� a.d. V Kal. Dec. � L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.� (MMDCCLX
> > a.u.c.) est. "C"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> > the earliest
> > > conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> > standard
> > > date, not the "REAL" date.
> > >
> > > Q. Valerius
> >
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

The founding of Rome has been dated at half of VIII by recent sudies in
Rome by Mr. Carandini that exposed them in a recent conference in Rome
(last year). So the hystory books have to be changed. Roma has been
founded around 750 BC so the roman date 756 is probably correct, and
this is an archeological study, so it's NOW history. About the mythos of
Romulus and Remus, now Carandini found the Lupercale and he said that he
has some extraordinary information that soon he is going to explain to
the world . The mythos (or legend?) is that Romulus was son of Mars (but
there's a lot to say about it....), not that Rome was founded in a
different date of 756. The datation is correct, as Romans said.

Vale optime in PD

Sempronia Solaria Messalina



I think
Q. Valerius Poplicola ha scritto:

> Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
>
> I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're still wrong.
> First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless. What does it
> mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and certainly a
> "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to anno domini,
> later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the Nova Roman
> context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use. Using anno
> urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English (the medium
> which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as genuineness and
> authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the mark. We don't
> know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the story of
> Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
> remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least in the
> historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith may be
> real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue history
> honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756 BCE cannot
> be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
>
> Vale in pace deum.
>
> On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
>
>> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
>> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
>>
>> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
>> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
>> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
>> Maior
>> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
>>
>> Hodi� a.d. V Kal. Dec. ? L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.? (MMDCCLX
>> a.u.c.) est. "C"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
>>>
>> the earliest
>>
>>> conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
>>>
>> standard
>>
>>> date, not the "REAL" date.
>>>
>>> Q. Valerius
>>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus fl. Cer. S.P.D.

In the name of Pax and Concordia, I strongly suggest that these discussions
on the date of the founding of Roma Antiqua be allowed to pass down the
Cloacina. It doesn't really matter whether recent scholars have determined that
the founding of Roma was in 756 or 750 BCE because Nova Roma was founded nine
years ago and we adopted the 753 BCE date. It is an arbatrary date but so is
the one for the Christian-based Anoo Domini.

You can debate the merits of your positions in favor of a new date of the
founding of Roma if you want to waste your time but the Collegium Pontificum
and the Senate will continue to use the current dating system which uses the
Julian Calendar transposed over the Gregorian Calendar with the beginning of
the year on January 1.

As such, the new magistrates (excepting the Tribunes) will be invested with
their imperium & take up their powers on Kal. Ian. MMDXXLXI (being January 1,
2008 A.D. Gregorian). So easy that even an old Navis can understand it.
For the rest of you fun-loving debaters--get down off your rostrum, build a
pons, and get over it (American humor here).

Valete.



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

If you are correct then more then the History books must be changed, since our actual dating system in Nova Roma uses 753 BC as the date of Roma foundation, and not 756 BC.

Vale optime bene,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----

> From: Numero 2 <2@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:52:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
>
> Salve,
>
> The founding of Rome has been dated at half of VIII by recent sudies in
> Rome by Mr. Carandini that exposed them in a recent conference in Rome
> (last year). So the hystory books have to be changed. Roma has been
> founded around 750 BC so the roman date 756 is probably correct, and
> this is an archeological study, so it's NOW history. About the mythos of
> Romulus and Remus, now Carandini found the Lupercale and he said that he
> has some extraordinary information that soon he is going to explain to
> the world . The mythos (or legend?) is that Romulus was son of Mars (but
> there's a lot to say about it....), not that Rome was founded in a
> different date of 756. The datation is correct, as Romans said.
>
> Vale optime in PD
>
> Sempronia Solaria Messalina
>
>
>
> I think
> Q. Valerius Poplicola ha scritto:
> > Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
> >
> > I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're still wrong.
> > First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless. What does it
> > mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> > traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and certainly a
> > "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to anno domini,
> > later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the Nova Roman
> > context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use. Using anno
> > urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English (the medium
> > which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as genuineness and
> > authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the mark. We don't
> > know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the story of
> > Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
> > remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least in the
> > historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith may be
> > real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue history
> > honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756 BCE cannot
> > be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
> >
> > Vale in pace deum.
> >
> > On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior wrote:
> >
> >
> >> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> >> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
> >>
> >> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> >> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> >> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> >> Maior
> >> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
> >>
> >> Hodié a.d. V Kal. Dec. ? L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.? (MMDCCLX
> >> a.u.c.) est. "C"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> >>>
> >> the earliest
> >>
> >>> conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> >>>
> >> standard
> >>
> >>> date, not the "REAL" date.
> >>>
> >>> Q. Valerius
> >>>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better pen pal.
Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

It has certainly been awhile since I've seen "I'm more Roman than you"
comments in the forum. I suppose it was about time to see it
resurface, by someone.

Vale:

Caeso Buteo

On Nov 27, 2007 4:01 AM, Q. Valerius Poplicola <catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
> Q. Valerius T. Flavio SPD:
>
> These days, I find it rarer and rarer those who actually know what it means
> to be a Roman. Finding the Lupercale no more proves that Romulus existed
> than the Parthenon proves the existence of Athena, or your local church
> proves the existence of Jesus Christ as God.

Sorry, in my message i wrote 756 (for error) and not 753. Please, read
it as 753.

Valete

Sempronia Solaria Messalina

Gaius Aemilius Crassus ha scritto:

>
> Salve,
>
> If you are correct then more then the History books must be changed,
> since our actual dating system in Nova Roma uses 753 BC as the date of
> Roma foundation, and not 756 BC.
>
> Vale optime bene,
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Numero 2 <2@... <mailto:2%40radiotradizione.it>>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:52:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > The founding of Rome has been dated at half of VIII by recent sudies in
> > Rome by Mr. Carandini that exposed them in a recent conference in Rome
> > (last year). So the hystory books have to be changed. Roma has been
> > founded around 750 BC so the roman date 756 is probably correct, and
> > this is an archeological study, so it's NOW history. About the
> mythos of
> > Romulus and Remus, now Carandini found the Lupercale and he said
> that he
> > has some extraordinary information that soon he is going to explain to
> > the world . The mythos (or legend?) is that Romulus was son of Mars
> (but
> > there's a lot to say about it....), not that Rome was founded in a
> > different date of 756. The datation is correct, as Romans said.
> >
> > Vale optime in PD
> >
> > Sempronia Solaria Messalina
> >
> >
> >
> > I think
> > Q. Valerius Poplicola ha scritto:
> > > Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
> > >
> > > I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're
> still wrong.
> > > First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless.
> What does it
> > > mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> > > traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and
> certainly a
> > > "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to
> anno domini,
> > > later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the
> Nova Roman
> > > context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use.
> Using anno
> > > urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English
> (the medium
> > > which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as
> genuineness and
> > > authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the
> mark. We don't
> > > know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the
> story of
> > > Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
> > > remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least
> in the
> > > historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith
> may be
> > > real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue
> history
> > > honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756
> BCE cannot
> > > be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
> > >
> > > Vale in pace deum.
> > >
> > > On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> > >> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
> > >>
> > >> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> > >> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> > >> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> > >> Maior
> > >> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
> > >>
> > >> Hodié a.d. V Kal. Dec. ? L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.? (MMDCCLX
> > >> a.u.c.) est. "C"
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> > >>>
> > >> the earliest
> > >>
> > >>> conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> > >>>
> > >> standard
> > >>
> > >>> date, not the "REAL" date.
> > >>>
> > >>> Q. Valerius
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a better pen pal.
> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/ <http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/>
>
>

Salve Sempronia Solaria Messalina,

would you be so kind to let us know the statement of Mr. Carandini about the Lupercale , as soon as
Mr.Carandini will have published it ?

Thank you very much.

Vale optime in PD

Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris CFBM
Tribunus Plebis designatus



----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Numero 2 <2@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 15:09:41 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments

Sorry, in my message i wrote 756 (for error) and not 753. Please, read
it as 753.

Valete

Sempronia Solaria Messalina

Gaius Aemilius Crassus ha scritto:

>
> Salve,
>
> If you are correct then more then the History books must be changed,
> since our actual dating system in Nova Roma uses 753 BC as the date of
> Roma foundation, and not 756 BC.
>
> Vale optime bene,
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Numero 2 <2@radiotradizione. it <mailto:2%40radiotr adizione. it>>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:52:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > The founding of Rome has been dated at half of VIII by recent sudies in
> > Rome by Mr. Carandini that exposed them in a recent conference in Rome
> > (last year). So the hystory books have to be changed. Roma has been
> > founded around 750 BC so the roman date 756 is probably correct, and
> > this is an archeological study, so it's NOW history. About the
> mythos of
> > Romulus and Remus, now Carandini found the Lupercale and he said
> that he
> > has some extraordinary information that soon he is going to explain to
> > the world . The mythos (or legend?) is that Romulus was son of Mars
> (but
> > there's a lot to say about it....), not that Rome was founded in a
> > different date of 756. The datation is correct, as Romans said.
> >
> > Vale optime in PD
> >
> > Sempronia Solaria Messalina
> >
> >
> >
> > I think
> > Q. Valerius Poplicola ha scritto:
> > > Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
> > >
> > > I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're
> still wrong.
> > > First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless.
> What does it
> > > mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> > > traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and
> certainly a
> > > "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to
> anno domini,
> > > later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the
> Nova Roman
> > > context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use.
> Using anno
> > > urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English
> (the medium
> > > which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as
> genuineness and
> > > authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the
> mark. We don't
> > > know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the
> story of
> > > Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's something I
> > > remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least
> in the
> > > historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith
> may be
> > > real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue
> history
> > > honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756
> BCE cannot
> > > be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
> > >
> > > Vale in pace deum.
> > >
> > > On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> > >> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
> > >>
> > >> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> > >> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> > >> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> > >> Maior
> > >> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
> > >>
> > >> Hodié a.d. V Kal. Dec. ? L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.? (MMDCCLX
> > >> a.u.c.) est. "C"
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> > >>>
> > >> the earliest
> > >>
> > >>> conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> > >>>
> > >> standard
> > >>
> > >>> date, not the "REAL" date.
> > >>>
> > >>> Q. Valerius
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ <http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/>
> >
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Be a better pen pal.
> Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> http://overview. mail.yahoo. com/ <http://overview. mail.yahoo. com/>
>
>

__________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!:
We can only hope and pray for the best, for your child's prompt recovery.
May the Gods give you and your family all their strength.
Vale.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
Decimus Cassius Lupus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(


> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
> >from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.8/1154 - Release Date: 27/11/07
11:40 a.m.
>
>

Q. Valerius Omnibus civitibus SPD

I certainly am *not* implying that the date be officially changed. In fact,
to Hortensia, I made it clear that it was official, and I have no problem
with the officiality. The magistrates, if it is their pleasure, should use
ab urbe condita. It certainly is a little clearer than what most Romans used
- consulibus Gaio et Marco. But the facts remain - a) that most Romans did
indeed use the eponymous system of naming their years after their consuls,
and b) there is no evidence that a man named Romulus and a man named Remus
fought over a little area of land upon the Tiber upon seven hills. I'm well
aware of the fringe scholars who disagree, their proponents have even
infiltrated wiki on this issue, but it's no more real than Abraham or
Vishnu. Believe it all you want, it's certainly a great part of my Roman
heritage, and I sacrifice to the pomerium Romae, and I tell my kids that in
753 BCE Romulus founded Rome. But it's just not historical.

Valete.

On 11/27/07, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...> wrote:
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus fl. Cer. S.P.D.
>
> In the name of Pax and Concordia, I strongly suggest that these
> discussions
> on the date of the founding of Roma Antiqua be allowed to pass down the
> Cloacina. It doesn't really matter whether recent scholars have determined
> that
> the founding of Roma was in 756 or 750 BCE because Nova Roma was founded
> nine
> years ago and we adopted the 753 BCE date. It is an arbatrary date but so
> is
> the one for the Christian-based Anoo Domini.
>
> You can debate the merits of your positions in favor of a new date of the
> founding of Roma if you want to waste your time but the Collegium
> Pontificum
> and the Senate will continue to use the current dating system which uses
> the
> Julian Calendar transposed over the Gregorian Calendar with the beginning
> of
> the year on January 1.
>
> As such, the new magistrates (excepting the Tribunes) will be invested
> with
> their imperium & take up their powers on Kal. Ian. MMDXXLXI (being January
> 1,
> 2008 A.D. Gregorian). So easy that even an old Navis can understand it.
> For the rest of you fun-loving debaters--get down off your rostrum, build
> a
> pons, and get over it (American humor here).
>
> Valete.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve L. Vitellius Triarius!

I will include your son, You and your family in my prayers.

>Salvete,
>
>My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
>old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
>afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
>and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
>enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
>his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
>from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
>They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
>complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
>looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
>Valete,
>Triarius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Senator, Censorius et Consularis
Accensus LAF, Scribae Censoris GFBM
Praeses, Triumvir et Praescriptor Academia Thules ad S.R.A. et N.
Editor-in-Chief, Publisher and Owner of "Roman Times Quarterly"
Sodalitas Egressus Beneficarius et Praefectus Provincia Thules
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

Una preghiera per Vostro figlio e per la Vostra Famiglia.

vale
P.Minicio Stazio

"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> ha scritto:
Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius






---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Of course ;))
When he will, I'll do.

Vale Optime

Titus Flavius Aquila ha scritto:

>
> Salve Sempronia Solaria Messalina,
>
> would you be so kind to let us know the statement of Mr. Carandini
> about the Lupercale , as soon as
> Mr.Carandini will have published it ?
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Vale optime in PD
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Scriba Censoris CFBM
> Tribunus Plebis designatus
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Numero 2 <2@... <mailto:2%40radiotradizione.it>>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 15:09:41 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
>
> Sorry, in my message i wrote 756 (for error) and not 753. Please, read
> it as 753.
>
> Valete
>
> Sempronia Solaria Messalina
>
> Gaius Aemilius Crassus ha scritto:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > If you are correct then more then the History books must be changed,
> > since our actual dating system in Nova Roma uses 753 BC as the date of
> > Roma foundation, and not 756 BC.
> >
> > Vale optime bene,
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Numero 2 <2@radiotradizione. it <mailto:2%40radiotr
> adizione. it>>
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:52:15 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Recent Taxpayments
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > The founding of Rome has been dated at half of VIII by recent
> sudies in
> > > Rome by Mr. Carandini that exposed them in a recent conference in Rome
> > > (last year). So the hystory books have to be changed. Roma has been
> > > founded around 750 BC so the roman date 756 is probably correct, and
> > > this is an archeological study, so it's NOW history. About the
> > mythos of
> > > Romulus and Remus, now Carandini found the Lupercale and he said
> > that he
> > > has some extraordinary information that soon he is going to explain to
> > > the world . The mythos (or legend?) is that Romulus was son of Mars
> > (but
> > > there's a lot to say about it....), not that Rome was founded in a
> > > different date of 756. The datation is correct, as Romans said.
> > >
> > > Vale optime in PD
> > >
> > > Sempronia Solaria Messalina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think
> > > Q. Valerius Poplicola ha scritto:
> > > > Quintus Valerius Hortensiae SPD:
> > > >
> > > > I hate to disagree with you on a such a moot point, but you're
> > still wrong.
> > > > First of all, "more genuine, authentic" etc... is meaningless.
> > What does it
> > > > mean to be "more factual" if it's not factual at all? It may be more
> > > > traditional, and it may be official (from a later Roman and
> > certainly a
> > > > "Nova Roman" stance). It is more legitimate in comparing it to
> > anno domini,
> > > > later called Common Era. These things may make it valid in the
> > Nova Roman
> > > > context, though lawful is not the normal English word to use.
> > Using anno
> > > > urbis conditae = 756 BCE is lawful, but it's an abuse to English
> > (the medium
> > > > which you are using) to say it itself is lawful. As far as
> > genuineness and
> > > > authenticity, not to mention factual and real, you're off the
> > mark. We don't
> > > > know the exact date Rome was founded, and we acknowledge that the
> > story of
> > > > Romulus is mythos. It's something I tell my children, it's
> something I
> > > > remark upon, but calling it factual is taking it too far. At least
> > in the
> > > > historical context, which is where "real" is concerned. Your faith
> > may be
> > > > real to you, but it's not "real" to history. If you were to pursue
> > history
> > > > honestly, the mythos of Romulus and the founding of Rome in 756
> > BCE cannot
> > > > be held as real. Official, perhaps, but real? No.
> > > >
> > > > Vale in pace deum.
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM, Maior wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> M. Hortensia Q. Valerio spd;
> > > >> I'm fine with an historical discussion.
> > > >>
> > > >> But MMDCCLXI a.u.c. is certainly more genuine, authentic,
> > > >> legitimate, lawful, valid, factual,official: [yes these are all
> > > >> synonyms for real] than anno domini.
> > > >> Maior
> > > >> ps: the date is right on the NR main page, to help everyone!
> > > >>
> > > >> Hodié a.d. V Kal. Dec. ? L. Arminio Ti. Galerio cos.? (MMDCCLX
> > > >> a.u.c.) est. "C"
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> While Varro's conjecture of 756 BCE became standard, it was not
> > > >>>
> > > >> the earliest
> > > >>
> > > >>> conjecture, nor does it seem to be the most accurate. It's the
> > > >>>
> > > >> standard
> > > >>
> > > >>> date, not the "REAL" date.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Q. Valerius
> > > >>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/ <http://docs. yahoo.com/
> info/terms/>
> > >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Be a better pen pal.
> > Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
> > http://overview. mail.yahoo. com/ <http://overview. mail.yahoo. com/>
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich
> Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too will pray for the recovery of your son and for your family,
be strong
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Una preghiera per Vostro figlio e per la Vostra Famiglia.
>
> vale
> P.Minicio Stazio
>
> "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> ha scritto:
> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8

years

> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school,

he

> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog

became

> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing

both

> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just

returned

> from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial

surgery.

> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------
> L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova

Yahoo! Mail

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve!

We will pray for the recovery and restoration of your child.
Vale,
D. Svetonivs Lvpvs, Sub Decanus
Ecclaessia Anglicorum Santa Paulo

Gens Iulia <maite_cat@...> wrote:
Salve!:
We can only hope and pray for the best, for your child's prompt recovery.
May the Gods give you and your family all their strength.
Vale.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
Decimus Cassius Lupus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Vitellius Triarius"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(


> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
> >from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.8/1154 - Release Date: 27/11/07
11:40 a.m.
>
>




Yahoo! Groups Links






Michael P. Orley

---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

IÂ’m sad that my first post to this group is about such a tragic situation.
Let me first say that you and your family are in my prayers. IÂ’m certainly
praying for a speedy and successful recovery for you son.

As the proud “daddy” of three wonderful dogs I’d like to address my fellow
dog owners. It is our responsibility to supervisor our dogs when they are
around children. The majority of dog bites inflected on children come from
family pets, relativeÂ’s pets or the dogs of close friends. And the majority
of those occur when the adults are not around. My mother-in-law was an
insurance investigator and took too many statements that went something
like, “They (the dog and child) were playing. We left the room (backyard,
garden, etc) for just a minute when the dog attacked the child.” This is a
too common scenario and IÂ’ll explain why.

Dogs are pack animals and in the pack there is a hierarchy. Most of the
time, but not always, the adults are the dominant members of the pack. The
dog behaves itself around them. That is, it does not try to establish
dominance over them. Children, in the mind of the dog, can be seen as
further down the chain of command in the pack. Without the presence of the
pack leader (adult) they will try to establish dominance over lesser pack
members (the child).

They do this my snarling, nipping, growling and baring of fangs at the less
dominant animal. They will sometimes “hump” the other animal. Even dogs
that are spayed and neutered will do this because itÂ’s a dominance position.
Two of my dogs will lay on the floor and play what my wife calls the “open
mouth game”. The growl at each other; they bare their fangs and grab each
other by the head; one will reach out with their paws and the other will to
hold it down. What, at first glance, appears to be fighting is in their dog
mind a form of play. ItÂ’s like two children sitting on a couch pushing each
other while saying, “I’m the boss.” “No, I’m the boss.” “NO, I’m the boss.”

So, a child playing with a dog (perhaps rough housing) waves his arms (paws)
and the dog sees this a sign of the child saying, “I’m dominant!” The dog
says no you are not in dog fashion by snarling, baring fangs, growling and
nipping. The dogs mouth and childÂ’s face are at the same height! Now we
end up with serious injury.

Fellow dog owners, we must socialize our dogs so that they learn it is never
acceptable to try to show dominance over a human. We must supervise our
dogs when they are around children. Anyone who needs a guard dog( and quite
frankly I think very few people really need one) should have it trained by a
professional and it should never be considered a family pet or companion
animal. A poorly socialized animal, not matter what the breed, can bite,
maim or even kill a child. Let me say it again, this is true of any breed.


Besides being a pet owner I work in the pet care industry. Every day at
work I meet dogs and their owners. I love dogs; I read about them; I
watch documentaries on dogs. And I know that a dog is a powerful animal
that we let live in our homes. We need to learn the rules of their society
just as we need to learn the rules of human society.

IÂ’m sorry if I went on too long. But this is an issue that is dear to me.
Again, it is addressed to dog owners. To Triarius and his family I offer my
heart felt sympathy. I will pray for you during this coming year. Please
keep us posted on how your son is doing.

Valete,
C. Acilius Caninus

Tom Gosse (Irish Hermit)
-------------------------------------------------
hermit@... – email
podcast.irishhermit.com <http://podcast.irishhermit.com/> - podcast
www.irishhermit.com – blog
Podcast Listener Line 508-281-4057
_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of L. Vitellius Triarius
Sent: Tuesday, 27 November, 2007 12:03 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(

Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus L. Vitellio Triario salutem dicit plurimam:


Please accept my sincere sympathy and this authentic Latin prayer for your son (I named him "Vitellius Luci filius", "Vitellius the younger, son of Lucius" because I don't know his praenomen).

I myself recite this prayer sacrificing a glass of wine:


PRECATIO PRO VITELLIO LUCI FILIO

INVOCATIO

Oh Di Apollo Medice et Aesculapi!
Geni Vitelli Luci fili!
Lares Penates Manes Vitelliorum!

ORATIO

Vos precor venerorque quaesoque,
uti Vitellium Luci filium salvum servetis;
utique Vitellium Luci filium ab omnibus periculis liberetis;
eumque boná valetudine conservetis;
uti Vitellio Luci filio valetudinem, quá erat,
quam primum restituatis, reddatis, reficiatis;
utique Vitellium Luci filium,
eiusque patrem, matrem, domum, familiam denuo beatam faxitis!

LIBATIO

Harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando:...

(taking up the glass of wine)

...estote fitote volentes propitii
Vitellio Luci filio, eiusque patri, matri, domo, familiae!

(the wine is sacrificed in the altar)



Valeat filius tuus, vale tu quoque!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
R O G A T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Lucius Vitellius Triarius,

Your family and especially your son will be in my prayers. I will offer a sacrifice on my altar tonight for his speedy recovery and healing, and for your strength in the days to come.
This may seem facetious, but I humbly believe that the Gods have a reason for everything, no matter how horrific things seem.

In the sacred names of all the Deities who heal, may your son be healed.

Vale,
Euphemia Cassia Mercuria


"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius






---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm sorry for you, Triarius, and I desire a brief cure for your son.

Vale,

Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.

----- Original Message -----
From: L. Vitellius Triarius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(


Salvete,

My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
looked favorably upon our domus and familia.

Valete,
Triarius





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Triarie

your son and your family are in prayers.


Cura ut valeas

COMPLVTENSIS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Romani,

A small contribution for my ever so slight activity this year in NR-
an important article on the Latin language for your educational
interests.

I wish you all the best for the holiday season.

Valete bene,
L. Fidelius Graecus

- - -


http://www.popmatters.com/pm/books/reviews/51013/ad-infinitum-a-
biography-of-latin-by-nicholas-ostler/

Ad Infinitum: A Biography of Latin
by Nicholas Ostler
Walker & Company
400 pages, $27.95
by John Timpane
The Philadelphia Inquirer (MCT)

Nicholas Ostler's Ad Infinitum is the story of Latin, and like the
story of language itself, it's really the story of people—what they
did, what they dreamed, how they lived and died. It's told as well as
any novel and is as gripping.

Nicholas Ostler, prodigious linguist, sparkling, witty writer, is
eminently suited to tell this tale. He knows all the languages
involved. And he knows how to spin a yarn.

It began, to echo Ostler, as a language of farmers and soldiers,
spoken by people who called themselves Latins. As of the seventh
century B.C., Latin was only one of a group of related Italic
languages, some of which were far more widely spoken. The Latins were
overshadowed by the Etruscans, whose vital culture, in a loose
confederation of city-states, held sway for three centuries over the
Italian peninsula.

Yet, a few centuries later, Rome, the center of the Latins, had
surpassed the Etruscan cities, just as Latin surpassed its sibling
languages. Rome did so not only by conquest but also by its system of
settlement, which combined agriculture with the imposition of Roman
law. They may have been less poetic than the Greeks, but the Romans
were geniuses of organization and bureaucracy. Their thrusting
ambition established Latin as a forthright, workable tongue of
governors and despots.

It is not a particularly beautiful or flexible language. Some of us
grew up with the Latin Mass and may think of it with nostalgia. But
classical Attic Greek was a sensuous, lissome, bottomlessly
resourceful tongue. By comparison, Latin seems gruff, stiff, terse.
My Latin master at university once estimated that the core vocabulary
for classical Latin as of 150 B.C. was about 5,200 words. Compare
that with the richer trove of words in Greek, with more made up (much
more easily than in Latin) as poet, politico or philosopher needed.

With humor and compassion, Ostler recounts how the Greeks only slowly
came to realize they were being passed up. Nobody who wasn't Greek
counted, as far as the Greeks were concerned. Deep down, the Romans
agreed. Even as they overran and dominated Greece, the Romans
maintained a cultural inferiority complex, much like ours vis-a-vis
English culture.

Cicero slaved to give Latin its own character in prose, and Virgil
did the same in poetry. Their efforts were a turning point, a labor
of intense love, often (with Cicero) not too original. Latin, now
advanced around the known world by fire, sword, plow and system, had
to create a literary tradition of its own, to match military prestige
with cultural. By the second century, the language had expanded and
flexed: It could claim an array of good poets, historians and
playwrights.

So great was Rome's prestige that, when the barbarians overwhelmed it
(traditional date: Sept. 4, 476), among their first moves was to
declare themselves defenders—of Latin! Goth kings spoke an unwritten
Germanic, but they were so awed by what Rome meant, what Latin meant,
that they hopped on that chariot (since they could not stop it). From
Odoacer on, they tended to preserve the legal and administrative
systems of Rome.

These surprising moves helped steady Latin through the dark centuries
when everything fell apart. So did the spread of early Christianity,
as Christians encouraged the use of a more personal, slightly looser
Latin. So did the heroic labors of Europe's monks, who copied and
preserved the Western tradition as it then stood. Without these
exertions, we wouldn't be who we are, or speak as we speak.

From A.D. 1000 on, the history sprints. For centuries, people had
been writing and reading Latin but speaking something else. Classical
Latin (the written form) always had differed from vulgar Latin
(spoken at home and in the street), and those differences accelerated
with time and distance. People started to refer to "Romance," any of
several dialects derived from Latin but increasingly distinct from
one another. These were becoming languages in their own rights, and
as of A.D. 842, when the first existing official document is written
that includes Romance (the Oaths of Strasbourg), the multilingual
future of Europe was forecast. Without belaboring the linguistics of
the thing, Ostler is fascinating on how the natural course of change
eased these tongues away from their parent.

The explosion in learning that came with the Middle Ages produced
scholastic Latin—new words for new ways of thinking. A second and
final burst of refreshment came with the early Renaissance, and its
own explosion of learning, including early modern science. At its
peak, Latin was the transnational tongue of the businessplace and the
docks; the diets, throne rooms and city halls; the courts, the
schools, the churches. You could go almost anywhere in Europe and
Latin would be your companion, your guide, your go-between.

But Ostler, breathtakingly, with a single sentence—"Latin had begun
to wither"—fingers the turning point. For him, the humanists of the
Renaissance helped Latin start to die. They insisted on a "classical"
purity; they looked back to achievements of better writers in the
ancient past. Whereas medieval scholars had generated new Latins for
new purposes, the humanists sought to hold it still, and so a summit
became a decline.

The coup de grace: printing. Now vernacular languages had an identity
that could hold steady via the fixity of print. (Spanish—which
started projecting itself into the New World as of 1492, and is, as
of today, the most successful Romance language—produced the first
printed grammar of a vernacular Romance.) Nationhoods were born:
national identities with a place, politics and language of their own.
Ostler, with sad fondness and fascination, marks how printed Latin
books tail off between 1500 and 1800.

Today, we speak of Latin as a "dead" language. If it is dead, Ostler
argues, the seeds of its demise may have lain within what gave it
life: the very institutions (Rome, Christianity, scholastic learning,
humanism) that disseminated it so wide and fierce.

But Ostler wonders aloud: Is it really dead? True, only one country
(the Vatican) lists it as an official language, and no babies grow up
speaking it as their first language at home. Latin, though, is
everywhere: in scientific nomenclature, in 60 percent of the
vocabulary of English—arguably the Latin of our time—and in the words
we use to describe and manipulate the primary engine of our age,
technology.

Literature in Latin is hardly dead. Catullus, Cicero, Horace and
Virgil still are read and enjoyed in the original by hundreds of
thousands. Translation is nice, but it's no substitute. Latin, as
written by the best, is still vibrant in the minds and hearts of many
who speak many languages. Ostler reports millions of Web pages in
Latin (there's even a Latin version of Wikipedia). Can a language
enjoying such an afterlife really be dead?

Before reading this book, I would have said yes. I dearly love Latin
and still open Horace and Virgil with pleasure (I was never very good
at it, let it be said)—but I do so as a self-conscious scholar. After
reading Ad Infinitum, I have to say Ostler has persuaded me. A
language is alive if it lives. And Latin lives. So do Greek, Hebrew,
Sanskrit, classical Arabic, in much the same role, as the mothers and
fathers of our minds. Once a language of farmers and soldiers, Latin
now is a language for readers and thinkers. That's life.

What a fascinating book, with beguiling sidelights—the many currents
that change language, that change peoples and nations. Told with
tenderness, packed with facts, quotations, jests and illustrations,
this is a book that earns the great story it tells.

Salve,

Which Q. Valerius are you? Since I am Quintus of the Valerii, called
Callidus, it is mete that I sign as Callidus, or Q. Valerius Callidus,
sometimes QVC; since Q. Valerius, although a proper address, will
cause much confusion as to which Q. Valerius you are and I am, neh?

Gratias tibi ago valeque,

Q. Valerius Callidus

Salvete,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:

> But it's just not historical.

Interesting. Let scholars debate such issues, and be this not a cause
for us to argue, since I have heard many say about events, of which I
personally have witnessed and been a party thereto, "This did not
happen." Even those as recent as but a few years ago.

I have experienced people professing third-hand accounts as purporting
greater validity than my first-hand accounts of the same events.

And after thousands of years, who is to say?

Valete,
Q. Valerius Callidus

Salve tutti Romani,

Q: Can one change his name if one is not happy with it?

Adriano


----- Original Message ----
From: os390account <Velaki@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:08:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Date of the Founding of Rome

Salve,

Which Q. Valerius are you? Since I am Quintus of the Valerii, called
Callidus, it is mete that I sign as Callidus, or Q. Valerius Callidus,
sometimes QVC; since Q. Valerius, although a proper address, will
cause much confusion as to which Q. Valerius you are and I am, neh?

Gratias tibi ago valeque,

Q. Valerius Callidus





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Adriano,

Adriano Rota <adriano.rota@...> writes:

> Salve tutti Romani,
>
> Q: Can one change his name if one is not happy with it?

Provisional citizens may change their names provided the change is
agreed to by the censors. Once full citizenship is attained, it's not
impossible to change one's name, but it requires a much greater reason
than "I'm not happy with my name."

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Valerio Callido quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Which Q. Valerius are you? Since I am Quintus of the Valerii, called
> Callidus, it is mete that I sign as Callidus, or Q. Valerius Callidus,
> sometimes QVC; since Q. Valerius, although a proper address, will
> cause much confusion as to which Q. Valerius you are and I am, neh?
>
> ATS: The gentleman is Q. Valerius Poplicola. A little reminder: the
> cognomen is the most distinctive part of the name, and the praenomen is the
> least distinctive. If you must use one name, please use the cognomen as there
> are several people with similar names. It is best, however, to use the
> trianomina, especially in formal situations. The praenomen alone was used
> only within the family and other close relationships. Thus we have Callidus
> the computer expert and Poplicola, who may be a poet...
>
> Gratias tibi ago valeque,
>
> Q. Valerius Callidus
>

Vale, et valete.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo L. Vitellio Triario quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Thank you very much, Lentule, for writing this lovely prayer. It is nice
> to see some Latin here once again. I join with you and the others in wishing
> a speedy and complete recovery for young Triarius and his family. My thoughts
> and prayers are with them.
>
> Since Yahoo is ailing again and did not deliver the original message from
> Triarius (and others) to my box, I was not able to respond to LVT directly, so
> did the next best thing, and piggybacked onto one of the messages of
> condolence. May young Triarius and his family be healed quickly and
> completely.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus L. Vitellio Triario salutem dicit plurimam:
>
>
> Please accept my sincere sympathy and this authentic Latin prayer for your
> son (I named him "Vitellius Luci filius", "Vitellius the younger, son of
> Lucius" because I don't know his praenomen).
>
> I myself recite this prayer sacrificing a glass of wine:
>
>
> PRECATIO PRO VITELLIO LUCI FILIO
>
> INVOCATIO
>
> Oh Di Apollo Medice et Aesculapi!
> Geni Vitelli Luci fili!
> Lares Penates Manes Vitelliorum!
>
> ORATIO
>
> Vos precor venerorque quaesoque,
> uti Vitellium Luci filium salvum servetis;
> utique Vitellium Luci filium ab omnibus periculis liberetis;
> eumque boná valetudine conservetis;
> uti Vitellio Luci filio valetudinem, quá erat,
> quam primum restituatis, reddatis, reficiatis;
> utique Vitellium Luci filium,
> eiusque patrem, matrem, domum, familiam denuo beatam faxitis!
>
> LIBATIO
>
> Harum rerum ergo macte
> hoc vino libando:...
>
> (taking up the glass of wine)
>
> ...estote fitote volentes propitii
> Vitellio Luci filio, eiusque patri, matri, domo, familiae!
>
> (the wine is sacrificed in the altar)
>
> Valeat filius tuus, vale tu quoque!
>
>
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> R O G A T O R
> ------------------------------------------
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
> Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
> Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------------------
> Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> ---------------------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Triari,

Your son is in my prayers to Apollo, as are you, your wife, and the rest of your family. May his road to recover be straight and smooth.

Vale optime,
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,
Yes, I will keep your son in my prayers tonight and I know all will do
likewise.
Blessings,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:41:31 +0000 (GMT)
Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

> Salve Lucius Vitellius Triarius ,
>
> all of my thoughts and good wishes are with your son, with you and with your
>family .
>
> May all the mighty Gods take the pain off of him and support the quick
>recovery of your son.
>
> I pray especially to Apollo Granus here in Germania to support the healing
>process for your son.
>
> Vale optime
> Titus Flavius Aquila
>
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: L. Vitellius Triarius <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 27. November 2007, 06:03:14 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] We ask for your prayers :(
>
> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
> from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>
>
>
>
>
> Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen
>Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Luci Vitelli

The Gods look favorably upon your house this night. Your son's
injuries, as frightening and terrible as they are now, shall heal.
The dog was restrained from doing greater harm and speedily was your
son placed under competant care. He shall heal, and we may offer
thanks to the Gods that your son has been preserved. But I shall
offer other prayers for your son's swift recovery, and, as one parent
for another, to Fessonia, too, I shall pray for his parents that they
may find rest from their trials and that She ease their worst fears.

Di Deaeque te ament cum tuis
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school,

he

> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog

became

> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing

both

> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just

returned

> from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial

surgery.

> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos salvas et servatas volunt.

Hodie est ante diem IIII KalendasDecembris; haec dies comitialis est.

AUC 585 / 168 BCE Aemilius Paulus tours Greece after defeating
Perseus of Macedonia

"Autumn was approaching and the consul decided to utilise this season
for making a tour through Greece and visiting objects to which the
fame that reaches our ears lends a grandeur which the eye fails to
discern. He placed C. Sulpicius Galbus in charge of the camp and set
out with a small escort, his son Scipio and Athenaeus, Eumenes'
brother, riding on either side of him. Passing through Thessaly he
made his way to Delphi, the world-famed oracle. Here he offered
sacrifices to Apollo and some unfinished columns in the vestibule on
which it had been intended to place statues of Perseus he set apart
for statues of himself in commemoration of his victory. He also
visited the temple of Jupiter Trophonius at Lebadia and saw the mouth
of the cavern into which those who consult the oracle descended.
There is a temple here dedicated to Jupiter and Hercynna, and he
offered sacrifices to these deities. He then went on to Chalcis to
see the Euripus and the bridge which connects the large island of
Euboea with the mainland. From there he crossed to Aulis, a distance
of three miles, and viewed the harbour, famous as the anchorage of
Agamemnon's thousand ships, and also the temple of Diana, at whose
altar the renowned "king of kings" sacrificed his daughter that his
fleet might have a favourable voyage to Troy. He then went on to
Oropus, where an ancient bard is worshipped as a demi-god and his
venerable temple is delightfully situated amidst fountains and
brooks. From there he proceeded to Athens. This city is full of the
traditions of its ancient glory, but it nevertheless possesses many
things worth seeing - the citadel, the harbour, the walls connecting
the city with the Piraeus and the dockyards; memorials of great
commanders, statues of Gods and men, splendidly wrought in every kind
of material and every form of art. After offering sacrifice at Athens
to Minerva, the patron Goddess of the Acropolis, Paulus left for
Corinth... (He) went on to Epidaurus, a city no match for those
others in wealth, but renowned for the famous Temple of Aesculapius,
five miles from the city... at that time it was rich in the actual
gifts that the sick had consecrated to teh Gods in thanksgiving for
the health-giving remedies that had received. Then he visited
Sparta, a place memorable not for the magnificence of its public
buildings bur for its discipline and its institutions. From there he
went up to Olympia by way of Megalopolis. At Olympia he saw many
sights which he regarded as well worth the visit, but he was moved in
the depth of his soul when he gazed upon what seemed liked the very
person of Jupiter. For that reason he gave sacrifice, ordering that
the offerings provided be more lavish than usual, just as though he
had gone to offer sacrifice on the Capitol." ~ Titus Livius 45.27-28

Aemilius Paulus had given his two youngest sons for adoption, and his
older sons were later to die. He was accompanied on this campaign by
his two youngest sons Q. Fabius Maximus Aemilianus, who Paulus sent
to sack the cities that revolted against Rome to rejoin with Perseus,
and his son Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus who would later gain
the cognomen Africanus after winning the Third and final Punic War.
His other companion, Athenaeus, had gone to Rome fifteen years
earlier as an envoy for his brother Eumenes II of Pergamum. The
attempted assassination of Eumenes by Evander, on orders by Perseus,
at the holy sanctuary of Delphi was one event that led to the Romano-
Macedonia War. It was an act of sacrilege, which is why the columns
of Perseus had been left unfinished. A Roman myth told how Iphigenia
had been carried away by Diana from Agememnons sacrifice at Aulis and
placed in Her sanctuary at Aricia where she attended upon Egeria.
The bard of Oropus was Amphiaraus of the "Seven Against Thebes." His
sanctuary was established by the end of the fifth century. After the
visit by Paulus it became a spa favored by traveling Romans. In 73
BCE Amphiaraus was officially recognized as a god by the Romans,
through the offices of consules Pompeius and Crassus, with the
assistance of Cicero, and thereby was the sanctuary made tax exempt
(Pausanius 1.34). With Paulus at Athens, and Corinth, at Epidarus,
and then at Olympia, there began a Rominization of the culti Deorum
ex patria in the Greek city-states.


Our thought for today is from Epictetus' Enchiridion 34

"If you are dazzled by the semblance of any promised pleasure; guard
yourself against being bewildered by it; but let the affair wait your
leisure, and procure yourself some delay. Then bring to your mind
both points of time, – that in which you shall enjoy the pleasure,
and that in which you will repent and reproach yourself, after you
have enjoyed it, – and set before you, in opposition to these, how
you will rejoice and applaud yourself, if you abstain. And even
though it should appear to you a seasonable gratification, take heed
that its enticements and allurements and seductions may not subdue
you; but set in opposition to this, how much better it is to be
conscious of having gained so great a victory."

Quintus Valerius f. C. Poplica Q. Valerio Callido SPD:

Studies after studies show that first hand accounts can be greatly skewed.
There have been case study after another showing acts caught on camera that
proved something very different than what people said they witnessed. In all
things, we must be careful. And this is not something I'm merely spouting
about. I do have some credibility in this area.

But anyone espousing the positive view that indeed Romulus existed and was
nursed by a lupa (which lupa? the Romans themselves asked) and founded Roma
in what is 753 BCE, then surely the onus of proof falls upon that person,
no?

Perhaps I am wrong - the possibility exists, but following standard
historical procedures, knowledge of the story is not plausible and that it
actually happened is not probable. There are better trajectories.

Vale.

On 11/27/07, os390account <Velaki@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "Q.
> Valerius Poplicola"
> <catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
> > But it's just not historical.
>
> Interesting. Let scholars debate such issues, and be this not a cause
> for us to argue, since I have heard many say about events, of which I
> personally have witnessed and been a party thereto, "This did not
> happen." Even those as recent as but a few years ago.
>
> I have experienced people professing third-hand accounts as purporting
> greater validity than my first-hand accounts of the same events.
>
> And after thousands of years, who is to say?
>
> Valete,
> Q. Valerius Callidus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TRIARI AMICE!

My words are not enough to explain what is in my soul reading your
message. I'm sorry to hear about this unfortunate event.
Be strong amice and take care of your son and his mother. Help them
to pass this moment.
I join with the others in wishing a speedy and complete recovery for
your son.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8

years

> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school,

he

> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog

became

> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing

both

> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just

returned

> from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial

surgery.

> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>

I pray for the quick healing of your son. May he have the strength of those
around him to bolster him during this time. Also, I pray for you, as your
strength will also give him assistance to heal physically and emotionally.
My thoughts are with you and your family.

D�AEMILIVS�SEVERVS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

I have been reminded that I should mention that Saturnalia cards and a
few other things are available in my shop at
http://www.cafepress.com/domuslucretius (part of our Macellum:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Macellum_%28Nova_Roma%29 )

Other things you can find in the Macellum include C. Vipsanius
Agrippa's shop which carries our official coins and C. Curius
Saturninus' shop for calendars for, ahem, next year, and Iulia Cassia
Vegetia's fine ceramics, and more.


Optime valete!

M. Lucretius Agricola

leg. pro praetore provinciae asiae orientalis



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Some of you in one particular country or another may be celebrating a
> holiday. Even here in one part of Asia Orientalis it is a holiday,
> "Labor Thanksgiving Day".
>
> Roman citizens around the world might take a moment to notice that
> Saturnalia is less than four weeks off. There is plenty of time to get
> ready for a truly Roman holiday. One way to start is by taking a look
> at http://novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_Roman_cuisine I am partial
> to the Grant book myself.
>
> To prepare in a more general way, there is this page:
> http://novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum For
> beginners I think that the Scheid book might be a good choice.
>
>
> Optime valete!
>

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis flamen Cerialis S.P.D.

What do the citizens of Nova Roma want in the new year 2761
a.u.c./2008 A.D.?

How about membership cards? They have been proposed in the past but
never acted upon. The webmasters in conjunction with the Censores
could add a feature, such as is found on the Julian Society web site,
that would allow citizens to simply print off a membership card with
their NR Name, legal name, taxpayer status, and citizen number. No
muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
it.

How about more real world events? I love the virtual ludi but what
about using NR funds to sponsor real games dedicated to Dii
Immortales. NRs bank account probably cannot afford chariot or horse
races yet, but there are gladiatorial groups that could be invited
out for a weekend event. Citizens could participate in field games--
races, javelin, discus, armored race--or stage a ludi scaenici
(Plautus' Miles Gloriosus is always lots of fun). This would
probably be a lot of work for the aediles but they also knew the job
was demanding when they ran for office. Let's not forget that we
have sacerdotes, flamen, and pontifices scattered all over the
world. We could definitely request public rites since it is part of
their duties as well. Everything could be recorded and posted to You
Tube. Of course, we should keep the virtual ludi to keep the circus
factiones from rioting.

Gubenatores and propraetores could be required to hold at least one
real live event per year in their province. Being a provincial
leader is more than just about internet skills and tax gathering. It
is about holding events in connection with a museum exhibit,
cooperating with other Roman groups at public demonstrations, or just
arranging for the celebration of the fasti and feriae or a Roman
dinner.

After all, Roman Days has been around for years.

We are coming up on the TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY of Nova Roma. Wouldn't
we all like to see our magistrates, gubenatores, and sacerdotes doing
more to get us off the internet and out into real space.

Before anyone whips up the subject to me about "what are you doing
Flavius Galerius"? I am organizing a conventus in Birmingham, AL on
January 19-20, 2008. I have been posting this event on every Roman-
related list that will let me do it. I really like to hold events
and work with other Roman groups to generate more Romanitas. We had
a convivium in Atlanta, GA last December & it was pretty fun.

Also, before anyone says how difficult and expensive it is to
host/organize such an event, I would like to say that it has cost me
almost nothing to organize the Conventus so far. I got the museum
information off the internet, called a couple of restaurants, got a
hotel rate, and posted information on a few lists. Total cost to
date has been $3.00 USD in phone calls and about six hours of my
time. It isn't that difficult or expensive.

I will admit that it might be more difficult in other countries but
in the last five years there has been a conventus a year in Europe.
Questions might go out to Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus or
Apollonius Cordus about what went into organizing their events.

I did not post this message to cause strife or discord on the ML. I
just want our magistrates and citizens to think about what could be
done in our 10th year.

Valete.

Q. Valerius Poplicola Galerio Aureliano omnibusque SPD:

In anno proximo, I cannot speak for all of Nova Roma, but I do have some
suggestions. First, I want to congratulate you on taking this initiative.
This is a step forward.

I'd also like to second your suggestion of the real world ludi. Mock
gladiator battles are always quite the spectacle. I'm afraid I'm more
inclined to Pliny and Cicero on horse racing, at least when it comes to
certain aspects. But we can afford to wait until horse cultivation is
renewed.

I'm even more rejoiced at seeing the possibility of staging an old Latin
comedy, e.g. Miles Gloriosus. Plautus is a favorite. Perhaps one day we can
get to the point where it can be done all in Latin with no trouble from the
cives.

Added to this would be the sponsorship of more legiones, perhaps even aiming
at the point of re-enacting a full exercitus. While we're years away from
such a feat, it wouldn't hurt to direct our purposes thither.

I would caution against making it mandatory for all governors to hold the
ludi of some sort, even if it is only a trip to the museum (which an ancient
Roman surely wouldn't consider a ludus), but that could be solved with
provincial reform. Remember, even the Romans weren't foreign to provincial
reform.

Apart from the ludi, reform in general needs to be considered. We're not yet
the Urbs Roma. While I assume most here strive for that, we should always be
aware of how we can better ourselves, how we can make ourselves more Roman.
One person appeared to mock a statement of someone being "more Roman"
(romanior), but the point is that we all lack a particular level of
Romanitas, this by cirumstance. Knowledge and our actions can correct this.
If we understand more clearly what the Romans thought, it helps push us
towards our goal. I'm doing my part - my thesis is on how Horace understood
his poetry and how he wanted his Roman audience to read it. It's essential
that we hold that in mind.

Overall, I strongly support your goal of removing us from an internet
activist group to a legitimate real world entity. While being based as a
non-profit organization in Maine may help, I mean, the Kemetic Orthodox have
a real church. I'd like to see a similar movement in Nova Roma - real world
artifacts. One reason I urged that we keep the land in Texas is because, as
it is free from the Modern World, it can be developed for Nova Roma with a
Roman frame in mind. While land like that can be bought elsewhere - in
particular I'm fond of Italia - something a little more concrete is always
beneficial.

Finally, I'd like to again thank Galerius Aurelianus for his organizing the
conventus in Birmingham. I'm still not sure if I'd be able to make it -
eheu, rent is not cheap here - that he's making things happen merits proper
laus.

In pace deum, valete.

On 11/28/07, Patrick D. Owen <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
>
> What do the citizens of Nova Roma want in the new year 2761
> a.u.c./2008 A.D.?
>
> How about membership cards? They have been proposed in the past but
> never acted upon. The webmasters in conjunction with the Censores
> could add a feature, such as is found on the Julian Society web site,
> that would allow citizens to simply print off a membership card with
> their NR Name, legal name, taxpayer status, and citizen number. No
> muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
> the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
> it.
>
> How about more real world events? I love the virtual ludi but what
> about using NR funds to sponsor real games dedicated to Dii
> Immortales. NRs bank account probably cannot afford chariot or horse
> races yet, but there are gladiatorial groups that could be invited
> out for a weekend event. Citizens could participate in field games--
> races, javelin, discus, armored race--or stage a ludi scaenici
> (Plautus' Miles Gloriosus is always lots of fun). This would
> probably be a lot of work for the aediles but they also knew the job
> was demanding when they ran for office. Let's not forget that we
> have sacerdotes, flamen, and pontifices scattered all over the
> world. We could definitely request public rites since it is part of
> their duties as well. Everything could be recorded and posted to You
> Tube. Of course, we should keep the virtual ludi to keep the circus
> factiones from rioting.
>
> Gubenatores and propraetores could be required to hold at least one
> real live event per year in their province. Being a provincial
> leader is more than just about internet skills and tax gathering. It
> is about holding events in connection with a museum exhibit,
> cooperating with other Roman groups at public demonstrations, or just
> arranging for the celebration of the fasti and feriae or a Roman
> dinner.
>
> After all, Roman Days has been around for years.
>
> We are coming up on the TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY of Nova Roma. Wouldn't
> we all like to see our magistrates, gubenatores, and sacerdotes doing
> more to get us off the internet and out into real space.
>
> Before anyone whips up the subject to me about "what are you doing
> Flavius Galerius"? I am organizing a conventus in Birmingham, AL on
> January 19-20, 2008. I have been posting this event on every Roman-
> related list that will let me do it. I really like to hold events
> and work with other Roman groups to generate more Romanitas. We had
> a convivium in Atlanta, GA last December & it was pretty fun.
>
> Also, before anyone says how difficult and expensive it is to
> host/organize such an event, I would like to say that it has cost me
> almost nothing to organize the Conventus so far. I got the museum
> information off the internet, called a couple of restaurants, got a
> hotel rate, and posted information on a few lists. Total cost to
> date has been $3.00 USD in phone calls and about six hours of my
> time. It isn't that difficult or expensive.
>
> I will admit that it might be more difficult in other countries but
> in the last five years there has been a conventus a year in Europe.
> Questions might go out to Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus or
> Apollonius Cordus about what went into organizing their events.
>
> I did not post this message to cause strife or discord on the ML. I
> just want our magistrates and citizens to think about what could be
> done in our 10th year.
>
> Valete.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agricola Aureliano sal.

I agree with much, but I want to add a note or two.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
wrote:

>
> No
> muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
> the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
> it.
>

The technological back room has had a lot tossed into it over the
years. Can we agree that Cista and citizen database issues come first?
I'm not saying that I oppose this idea, but we all volunteer to do
this stuff and priorities have to be set.

> How about more real world events? I love the virtual ludi but what
> about using NR funds to sponsor real games dedicated to Dii
> Immortales.

[SNIP]

> Tube. Of course, we should keep the virtual ludi to keep the circus
> factiones from rioting.

Agree with everything there.

> Gubenatores and propraetores could be required to hold at least one
> real live event per year in their province. Being a provincial
> leader is more than just about internet skills and tax gathering. It
> is about holding events in connection with a museum exhibit,
> cooperating with other Roman groups at public demonstrations, or just
> arranging for the celebration of the fasti and feriae or a Roman
> dinner.

[SNIP]

> I will admit that it might be more difficult in other countries but
> in the last five years there has been a conventus a year in Europe.

Please be careful about "require". I agree that governors should be
held accountable for activity or lack thereof in principle. On the
other hand, some provinces (as you note) are so sparsely populated
that face to face meetings are nearly impossible. The half-dozen or so
citizens here in Asia Orientalis live in nearly that many countries. I
do agree that we should keep up on things like museum shows and inform
our citizens about them and even try to set up meetings. We can't
require these things to happen though, (unless maybe we can have our
airfare subsidized.)

As I said, I agree with almost everything you said. This is a good
time, too, to bring this up. Let's see what other good ideas people
can offer.

optime vale!

T. Flavius Aquila Fl. Galeri Aureliano salutem plumiram dicit

Thank you very much for bringing this up !

If I remember correctly, a citizen had already asked the question for a certificate when becoming a citizen of Nova Roma . I fully support this. After all our republic, our nation should provide to new citizen a certificate as a special sign of belonging to Nova Roma. This should be easily achieved via the Internet, every citizen after being granted full citizenship should be able to print this document out, with the electronically signatures of the censors. A membership card would be excellent to carry around and to show if needed for events.

I will follow this up as a Tribunus Plebis.


Concerning the ludi I had the same thoughts. As excellent as they have been , especially this year, thank you to Saturninus , we still need to take a further step forward to real events, especially in the 10th of Nova Roma. Via the tube all citizens could be part or at least watch the ludi. Let’s follow this up. I would like to ask the Aediles of 2761 AUC to look into this.

Yes, we should have public rites and this as well could be video broadcasted.

For the real events concerning the provinces, this might not be an easy task for all provinces. For example for the Provincia Germania we do not have a Legatus pro Praetore. Maybe in the future to come.
Maybe one could start in a small range, have a Museum visit, having dinner, just meet even as a small group. My dream is to organize a Roman day for the Provincia Germania, to be followed annually. But this will take some time and some enormous energy.

As well, I would like to see an annual meeting/assembly of all citizens in Roma.

I also would like to address again the possibility to have a 10th year Video broadcast where all provinces can participate and all citizens can watch.

May I suggest that a task force 10th year celebrations is being formed to start gathering ideas and to recommend progress steps in all the
areas mentioned before.


Valete optime
Titus Flavius Aquila
Scriba Censoris CFBM
Tribunus Plebis designatus


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Patrick D. Owen <Patrick.Owen@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 28. November 2007, 08:57:01 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] What do Nova Romans want in the new year?

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis flamen Cerialis S.P.D.

What do the citizens of Nova Roma want in the new year 2761
a.u.c./2008 A.D.?

How about membership cards? They have been proposed in the past but
never acted upon. The webmasters in conjunction with the Censores
could add a feature, such as is found on the Julian Society web site,
that would allow citizens to simply print off a membership card with
their NR Name, legal name, taxpayer status, and citizen number. No
muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
it.

How about more real world events? I love the virtual ludi but what
about using NR funds to sponsor real games dedicated to Dii
Immortales. NRs bank account probably cannot afford chariot or horse
races yet, but there are gladiatorial groups that could be invited
out for a weekend event. Citizens could participate in field games--
races, javelin, discus, armored race--or stage a ludi scaenici
(Plautus' Miles Gloriosus is always lots of fun). This would
probably be a lot of work for the aediles but they also knew the job
was demanding when they ran for office. Let's not forget that we
have sacerdotes, flamen, and pontifices scattered all over the
world. We could definitely request public rites since it is part of
their duties as well. Everything could be recorded and posted to You
Tube. Of course, we should keep the virtual ludi to keep the circus
factiones from rioting.

Gubenatores and propraetores could be required to hold at least one
real live event per year in their province. Being a provincial
leader is more than just about internet skills and tax gathering. It
is about holding events in connection with a museum exhibit,
cooperating with other Roman groups at public demonstrations, or just
arranging for the celebration of the fasti and feriae or a Roman
dinner.

After all, Roman Days has been around for years.

We are coming up on the TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY of Nova Roma. Wouldn't
we all like to see our magistrates, gubenatores, and sacerdotes doing
more to get us off the internet and out into real space.

Before anyone whips up the subject to me about "what are you doing
Flavius Galerius"? I am organizing a conventus in Birmingham, AL on
January 19-20, 2008. I have been posting this event on every Roman-
related list that will let me do it. I really like to hold events
and work with other Roman groups to generate more Romanitas. We had
a convivium in Atlanta, GA last December & it was pretty fun.

Also, before anyone says how difficult and expensive it is to
host/organize such an event, I would like to say that it has cost me
almost nothing to organize the Conventus so far. I got the museum
information off the internet, called a couple of restaurants, got a
hotel rate, and posted information on a few lists. Total cost to
date has been $3.00 USD in phone calls and about six hours of my
time. It isn't that difficult or expensive.

I will admit that it might be more difficult in other countries but
in the last five years there has been a conventus a year in Europe.
Questions might go out to Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus or
Apollonius Cordus about what went into organizing their events.

I did not post this message to cause strife or discord on the ML. I
just want our magistrates and citizens to think about what could be
done in our 10th year.

Valete.





Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Quinto Valerio Poplicolae salutem dicit

I once asked a Christian evangelical friend of mine that if there was
unequivocal proof that there was no historical Jesus "would you still
have faith?" She said, "No, how could I?" I thought this was sad,
the historical icon was more important than the message.

Our myths give us strength and it matters not if they are historically
true or not. History shows that Jesus was not born on December 25th,
and biology teaches that virgin births are very unlikely or
impossible. Yet countless people celebrate the birth of their God in
December. Likewise, it is very likely that Muhammad (of Islamic fame)
probably existed and much that is taught as historical probably did
happen. Does that mean that the night journey of Muhammad from Mecca
to Jerusalem happened in just one night on the back of a mythical
beast? Probably not. Some scholars consider this night journey a
dream and not an actual event.

Faith of any sort is simply a paradox because it defies reason, so
claims Kierkegaard and I think he is correct. Whether you embrace the
teachings of Christianity, the practices of Islam, or the myths of
ancient Rome you have to defy reason and embrace the paradox of faith.
Things taken on faith make us irrational to a point, but tradition
does serve a purpose.

Is it rational for us modern individuals to consults natural omens
before voting in comitia or within the senate? It might not be, but
it was a practice of the ancient Romans for magistrates to take the
auspices and for augures to interpret them. In Nova Roma we have
magistrates who "don't do augury" so our augures conduct the necessary
auguries in their place. Do we have to show proof, every time an
augury is conducted, that augury is necessary and beneficial to our
organization? Certainly not. However, we still do it.

Our myths and practices are the mortar that binds us together. They
might not all be rational or practical or even necessary, but they
simply are.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 27, 2007 10:34 PM, Q. Valerius Poplicola
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:

>
> Quintus Valerius f. C. Poplica Q. Valerio Callido SPD:
>
> Studies after studies show that first hand accounts can be greatly skewed.
> There have been case study after another showing acts caught on camera that
> proved something very different than what people said they witnessed. In
> all
> things, we must be careful. And this is not something I'm merely spouting
> about. I do have some credibility in this area.
>
> But anyone espousing the positive view that indeed Romulus existed and was
> nursed by a lupa (which lupa? the Romans themselves asked) and founded Roma
> in what is 753 BCE, then surely the onus of proof falls upon that person,
> no?
>
> Perhaps I am wrong - the possibility exists, but following standard
> historical procedures, knowledge of the story is not plausible and that it
> actually happened is not probable. There are better trajectories.
>
> Vale.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus L. Vitellio Triario salutem dicit

I have made offerings and offered prayers for the welfare of your son.
My condolences to you and your family.

Vale:

Caeso Buteo

On Nov 27, 2007 12:03 AM, L. Vitellius Triarius
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> My wife and I would like to ask you to keep our oldest son (8 years
> old) in your prayers and thoughts this evening. Earlier this
> afternoon, while playing at his best friend's house after school, he
> and his friend were playing with his friend's dog, when the dog became
> enraged and attacked our son. The dog bit into his face, tearing both
> his lips to shreds and injuring his left hand. We have just returned
> from the hospital, where he had to undergo emergency facial surgery.
> They told us that his recovery would probably take a year to be
> complete. It has been a very long day. I suppose the Gods have not
> looked favorably upon our domus and familia.
>
> Valete,
> Triarius

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Fl. Galerio Aureliano salutem dicit

If we did some sort of membership card then I would be happy to
institute such a thing after the senate approved an annual budget for
it. If it is done, it should be done correctly. But I think more
needs to be done.

I would like to see incentives for assidui status! However, right now
we have taxes based on a countries GNP. What this means is that US
citizens pay about $15 and citizens of other counties often times only
pay the equivalent of a few US $. What we have are citizens of some
countries "carrying" the whole of Nova Roma. I would like to see ALL
assidui receive a (paper) newsletter, and get a "receipt" for their
taxes. Here is the problem...

Cost of an initial membership card: $1 (estimate) -- covered by the
censores office.
Cost of a quarterly mailed newsletter: $4 - $6 (includes postage
which is the big variable).
Cost of an annual assidui membership/citizenship card: $1 (and could
go out with a newsletter to cut postage cost).

The problem is here: A Nova Roman citizen living in the USA pays $15
in taxes. That would cover the above costs and Nova Roma would still
have money for other projects. But, lets look at a citizen from
almost every other country, Nova Roma would have to assume some
expenses (some citizens pay as little as a couple of US $$) and
nothing is placed in reserve.

This *IS* a problem that needs to be solved for Nova Roma to
effectively move forward.

I agree with you Aurelianus, my friend, that Nova Roma needs to move
forward. But it needs to move forward in a monumental way in order
for real progress to happen. A major reform is necessary.

Thus far there have been 900+ citizenship applications this year
(although not all of these are now legitimate citizens). How many
will become assidui? I know some cultures look at Nova Roma in
different ways. Some citizens don't feel a need to be active, but
still want to be included. I understand that, but we still need to
move Nova Roma forward.

I recommend an initial tax simply to apply for citizenship in Nova
Roma. We make it too easy for people. We have a citizenship test and
a probationary period, but no financial responsibility. I would like
to see something like this:

Capite Censi be a sort of "associate citizenship/membership" with a
one time fee/tax of $20.00, with permanent capite censi status. First
year newsletter and initial citizenship card. After one year the
capite censi citizen can pay a tax for assidui status.

Assidui status with a one time fee/tax of $50.00 and would confer
permanent assidui status, and would include a year of the newsletter
and an updated citizenship card.

Newsletters could be printed and made available for a modest cost of
$5 - $6 a year (new capite censi & assidui could get a year free).

Citizenship cards would only need to be printed and mailed twice or
only once if a citizen stayed as a capite censi.

This is only one model for change, but I think there should be
something worked out that will promote steady growth and investment in
Nova Roma. There are hundreds of citizens in Nova Roma who have
invested little money or time in our republic yet are on the books as
citizens. Citizenship should mean more than just a notation in a
database.

Now... reforming the Religio. That is a different subject all together!

It is early and I have not had coffee. I ramble, this I know. These
thoughts of mine above, are all just thrown out there as food for
thought. I'm not married to them, but would like there to be
discussion on the subject and am glad you brought up the subject of
how to get Nova Roma moving forward.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 28, 2007 2:57 AM, Patrick D. Owen <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
>
> What do the citizens of Nova Roma want in the new year 2761
> a.u.c./2008 A.D.?
>
> How about membership cards? They have been proposed in the past but
> never acted upon. The webmasters in conjunction with the Censores
> could add a feature, such as is found on the Julian Society web site,
> that would allow citizens to simply print off a membership card with
> their NR Name, legal name, taxpayer status, and citizen number. No
> muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
> the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
> it.

Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano et Q. Poplicolae et Fl. Galerio etc. salutem:


I have much to say on these issues, but later. Now just some quick notes:

Censor mi! Payment based on GNP MUST be retained. I myself am willing to pay more, but many of our citizens of poor countries are not. For them this money is too much. E.g. in Hungary, I as a student, can live off of 50 $ for 2 weeks! It's very expensive. There are other young men who can make a living by 15 $ for one week. For them, 50 $ is 3 weeks subsistence.

I agree with raising taxes, but only on a GNP basis! There are people who can buy a car from the money which for others is enough for a hamburger.


Valete!
LENTVLVS


"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> ha scritto:
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Fl. Galerio Aureliano salutem dicit

If we did some sort of membership card then I would be happy to
institute such a thing after the senate approved an annual budget for
it. If it is done, it should be done correctly. But I think more
needs to be done.

I would like to see incentives for assidui status! However, right now
we have taxes based on a countries GNP. What this means is that US
citizens pay about $15 and citizens of other counties often times only
pay the equivalent of a few US $. What we have are citizens of some
countries "carrying" the whole of Nova Roma. I would like to see ALL
assidui receive a (paper) newsletter, and get a "receipt" for their
taxes. Here is the problem...

Cost of an initial membership card: $1 (estimate) -- covered by the
censores office.
Cost of a quarterly mailed newsletter: $4 - $6 (includes postage
which is the big variable).
Cost of an annual assidui membership/citizenship card: $1 (and could
go out with a newsletter to cut postage cost).

The problem is here: A Nova Roman citizen living in the USA pays $15
in taxes. That would cover the above costs and Nova Roma would still
have money for other projects. But, lets look at a citizen from
almost every other country, Nova Roma would have to assume some
expenses (some citizens pay as little as a couple of US $$) and
nothing is placed in reserve.

This *IS* a problem that needs to be solved for Nova Roma to
effectively move forward.

I agree with you Aurelianus, my friend, that Nova Roma needs to move
forward. But it needs to move forward in a monumental way in order
for real progress to happen. A major reform is necessary.

Thus far there have been 900+ citizenship applications this year
(although not all of these are now legitimate citizens). How many
will become assidui? I know some cultures look at Nova Roma in
different ways. Some citizens don't feel a need to be active, but
still want to be included. I understand that, but we still need to
move Nova Roma forward.

I recommend an initial tax simply to apply for citizenship in Nova
Roma. We make it too easy for people. We have a citizenship test and
a probationary period, but no financial responsibility. I would like
to see something like this:

Capite Censi be a sort of "associate citizenship/membership" with a
one time fee/tax of $20.00, with permanent capite censi status. First
year newsletter and initial citizenship card. After one year the
capite censi citizen can pay a tax for assidui status.

Assidui status with a one time fee/tax of $50.00 and would confer
permanent assidui status, and would include a year of the newsletter
and an updated citizenship card.

Newsletters could be printed and made available for a modest cost of
$5 - $6 a year (new capite censi & assidui could get a year free).

Citizenship cards would only need to be printed and mailed twice or
only once if a citizen stayed as a capite censi.

This is only one model for change, but I think there should be
something worked out that will promote steady growth and investment in
Nova Roma. There are hundreds of citizens in Nova Roma who have
invested little money or time in our republic yet are on the books as
citizens. Citizenship should mean more than just a notation in a
database.

Now... reforming the Religio. That is a different subject all together!

It is early and I have not had coffee. I ramble, this I know. These
thoughts of mine above, are all just thrown out there as food for
thought. I'm not married to them, but would like there to be
discussion on the subject and am glad you brought up the subject of
how to get Nova Roma moving forward.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 28, 2007 2:57 AM, Patrick D. Owen <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
>
> What do the citizens of Nova Roma want in the new year 2761
> a.u.c./2008 A.D.?
>
> How about membership cards? They have been proposed in the past but
> never acted upon. The webmasters in conjunction with the Censores
> could add a feature, such as is found on the Julian Society web site,
> that would allow citizens to simply print off a membership card with
> their NR Name, legal name, taxpayer status, and citizen number. No
> muss, no fuss except for the slight headache for the webmasters and
> the Censores. Well, they knew the job was dangerous when they took
> it.





---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit

This is truly a dilemma. What would the ancient Romans do in a case
like this? Clearly wealth and status was favored, and the poor and
unfortunate were simply that -- poor and unfortunate. What I seem to
see is a sense of equality that is clearly a modern construct in
deference to privilege being afforded to those who have, over those
who "have not." This seems ironic to me. So much call from people,
including yourself, to do what the Romans would do except when it
affects close to home outside of the realm of the theoretical and
speculative -- that is money. Would the ancient Romans be
compassionately sensitive to the financial weakness of students?

I too am a full time student, albeit a non-traditional one (i.e., at
37), and my wife is as well. We live well within the "poverty line"
by USA standards of income. However, the means are still there for me
to pay my taxes (at least most of the time), and I have purchased cups
of coffee that are more than the tax rate of some of our citizens.
That is only used to illustrate the financial disparity, I fully
support the participation and activity of all of our citizens and
value the work done by the commitments of our citizens -- yourself
included.

What DOES seem evident is that a "historical" solution is not
necessarily the most effective in our current modern dilemmas. The
Romans were, as we have ascertained on this forum, a very practical
people.

The problem still remains. How does Nova Roma provide services to its
citizens when there is such a disparity of tax rates? If we do a
newsletter can printing be obtained in Eastern Europe extremely
inexpensive (at least by US standards)? How about mailing costs? The
cost to mail a simple newsletter at International rates is several $,
the postage rates for one edition could be the whole tax for the whole
year.

Electronic (PDF) editions could be created (at no cost other than time
and software expense) and distributed to the provincial governors for
printing and distribution. That is certainly an option, but is it
feasible. Is it possible for a governor like yourself in Hungary to
inexpensively print a newsletter and distribute it to the assidui
citizens in the province?

Our truly international community has some things it needs to work out
in order to move forward and to progress. These issues need to
effectively be addressed.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Nov 28, 2007 7:23 AM, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano et Q. Poplicolae et Fl. Galerio etc.
> salutem:
>
>
> I have much to say on these issues, but later. Now just some quick notes:
>
> Censor mi! Payment based on GNP MUST be retained. I myself am willing to
> pay more, but many of our citizens of poor countries are not. For them this
> money is too much. E.g. in Hungary, I as a student, can live off of 50 $ for
> 2 weeks! It's very expensive. There are other young men who can make a
> living by 15 $ for one week. For them, 50 $ is 3 weeks subsistence.
>
> I agree with raising taxes, but only on a GNP basis! There are people who
> can buy a car from the money which for others is enough for a hamburger.
>
> Valete!
> LENTVLVS

Salvete!

What would the historic Romans do? Enslave the poorer provinces,
and send the legions to quell any potential uprisings.

Now, since we're not going to do that, we should ask ourselves, "Why
would you want to charge $20?" Hmm...perhaps it's to defray the
cost of production of certain goods we sell. But if that be the
case, then why not outsource the manufacturing process to the
provinces, i.e. cheap labor. No?? Too capitalistic? Insufficient
quality control?

We live in a consumer driven world, and finding the right balance
between what is Roman Antiqua and what is the modern reality of the
world will take some time.

Valete,
Q. Valerius Callidus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit
>
> This is truly a dilemma. What would the ancient Romans do in a

case

> like this? Clearly wealth and status was favored, and the poor and
> unfortunate were simply that -- poor and unfortunate. What I seem

to

> see is a sense of equality that is clearly a modern construct in
> deference to privilege being afforded to those who have, over those
> who "have not." This seems ironic to me. So much call from

people,

> including yourself, to do what the Romans would do except when it
> affects close to home outside of the realm of the theoretical and
> speculative -- that is money. Would the ancient Romans be
> compassionately sensitive to the financial weakness of students?
>
> I too am a full time student, albeit a non-traditional one (i.e.,

at

> 37), and my wife is as well. We live well within the "poverty

line"

> by USA standards of income. However, the means are still there

for me

> to pay my taxes (at least most of the time), and I have purchased

cups

> of coffee that are more than the tax rate of some of our citizens.
> That is only used to illustrate the financial disparity, I fully
> support the participation and activity of all of our citizens and
> value the work done by the commitments of our citizens -- yourself
> included.
>
> What DOES seem evident is that a "historical" solution is not
> necessarily the most effective in our current modern dilemmas. The
> Romans were, as we have ascertained on this forum, a very practical
> people.
>
> The problem still remains. How does Nova Roma provide services to

its

> citizens when there is such a disparity of tax rates? If we do a
> newsletter can printing be obtained in Eastern Europe extremely
> inexpensive (at least by US standards)? How about mailing costs?

The

> cost to mail a simple newsletter at International rates is several

$,

> the postage rates for one edition could be the whole tax for the

whole

> year.
>
> Electronic (PDF) editions could be created (at no cost other than

time

> and software expense) and distributed to the provincial governors

for

> printing and distribution. That is certainly an option, but is it
> feasible. Is it possible for a governor like yourself in Hungary

to

> inexpensively print a newsletter and distribute it to the assidui
> citizens in the province?
>
> Our truly international community has some things it needs to work

out

> in order to move forward and to progress. These issues need to
> effectively be addressed.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Nov 28, 2007 7:23 AM, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano et Q. Poplicolae et Fl. Galerio

etc.

> > salutem:
> >
> >
> > I have much to say on these issues, but later. Now just some

quick notes:

> >
> > Censor mi! Payment based on GNP MUST be retained. I myself am

willing to

> > pay more, but many of our citizens of poor countries are not.

For them this

> > money is too much. E.g. in Hungary, I as a student, can live off

of 50 $ for

> > 2 weeks! It's very expensive. There are other young men who can

make a

> > living by 15 $ for one week. For them, 50 $ is 3 weeks

subsistence.

> >
> > I agree with raising taxes, but only on a GNP basis! There are

people who

> > can buy a car from the money which for others is enough for a

hamburger.

> >
> > Valete!
> > LENTVLVS
>

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.

I am not in favor of any increase in the annual taxes until the
Senate, Consuls, and Qaestores can get all of our funds under the
firm control of our corporation. At present, our funds are not
accessible by our elected corporate officers but only through a
former quaestor and unofficial C.F.O.

Also, it is not necessary to have any kind of monumental step
forward to improve Nova Roma's real world presence. Roma Antiqua
started in several villages and eventually grew into a city of over
one million. I propose local events and provincial events are the
best way to get started.

Remember, this province has organized two gatherings and has
participated in three demonstrations with other Roman groups with
virtually no funds. It should be easier for NR in larger cities to
hold events and gatherings because there is not 200 miles involved.
Neither of the provincial gatherings in Austrorientalis has happened
in my home town but rather in more cental locations within the
province.

I also do not believe it is a good idea to require our new citizens
to pay a fee to join unless we can guarantee them a membership card,
discount on provincial gatherings & goods from the Macellum, right
to attend Academia Thule, and an electronic or paper newsletter
produced on a quarterly basis. That would be worth $25 a year above
the annual taxes for N.A. members of NR.

Valete.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "os390account" <Velaki@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> What would the historic Romans do? Enslave the poorer provinces,
> and send the legions to quell any potential uprisings.
>
> Now, since we're not going to do that, we should ask
ourselves, "Why
> would you want to charge $20?" Hmm...perhaps it's to defray the
> cost of production of certain goods we sell. But if that be the
> case, then why not outsource the manufacturing process to the
> provinces, i.e. cheap labor. No?? Too capitalistic?
Insufficient
> quality control?
>
> We live in a consumer driven world, and finding the right balance
> between what is Roman Antiqua and what is the modern reality of
the
> world will take some time.
>
> Valete,
> Q. Valerius Callidus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
> <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gnaeo Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit
> >
> > This is truly a dilemma. What would the ancient Romans do in a
> case
> > like this? Clearly wealth and status was favored, and the poor
and
> > unfortunate were simply that -- poor and unfortunate. What I
seem
> to
> > see is a sense of equality that is clearly a modern construct in
> > deference to privilege being afforded to those who have, over
those
> > who "have not." This seems ironic to me. So much call from
> people,
> > including yourself, to do what the Romans would do except when it
> > affects close to home outside of the realm of the theoretical and
> > speculative -- that is money. Would the ancient Romans be
> > compassionately sensitive to the financial weakness of students?
> >
> > I too am a full time student, albeit a non-traditional one
(i.e.,
> at
> > 37), and my wife is as well. We live well within the "poverty
> line"
> > by USA standards of income. However, the means are still there
> for me
> > to pay my taxes (at least most of the time), and I have
purchased
> cups
> > of coffee that are more than the tax rate of some of our
citizens.
> > That is only used to illustrate the financial disparity, I fully
> > support the participation and activity of all of our citizens and
> > value the work done by the commitments of our citizens --
yourself
> > included.
> >
> > What DOES seem evident is that a "historical" solution is not
> > necessarily the most effective in our current modern dilemmas.
The
> > Romans were, as we have ascertained on this forum, a very
practical
> > people.
> >
> > The problem still remains. How does Nova Roma provide services
to
> its
> > citizens when there is such a disparity of tax rates? If we do a
> > newsletter can printing be obtained in Eastern Europe extremely
> > inexpensive (at least by US standards)? How about mailing
costs?
> The
> > cost to mail a simple newsletter at International rates is
several
> $,
> > the postage rates for one edition could be the whole tax for the
> whole
> > year.
> >
> > Electronic (PDF) editions could be created (at no cost other
than
> time
> > and software expense) and distributed to the provincial
governors
> for
> > printing and distribution. That is certainly an option, but is
it
> > feasible. Is it possible for a governor like yourself in
Hungary
> to
> > inexpensively print a newsletter and distribute it to the assidui
> > citizens in the province?
> >
> > Our truly international community has some things it needs to
work
> out
> > in order to move forward and to progress. These issues need to
> > effectively be addressed.
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Nov 28, 2007 7:23 AM, Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
> > <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano et Q. Poplicolae et Fl.
Galerio
> etc.
> > > salutem:
> > >
> > >
> > > I have much to say on these issues, but later. Now just some
> quick notes:
> > >
> > > Censor mi! Payment based on GNP MUST be retained. I myself am
> willing to
> > > pay more, but many of our citizens of poor countries are not.
> For them this
> > > money is too much. E.g. in Hungary, I as a student, can live
off
> of 50 $ for
> > > 2 weeks! It's very expensive. There are other young men who
can
> make a
> > > living by 15 $ for one week. For them, 50 $ is 3 weeks
> subsistence.
> > >
> > > I agree with raising taxes, but only on a GNP basis! There
are
> people who
> > > can buy a car from the money which for others is enough for a
> hamburger.
> > >
> > > Valete!
> > > LENTVLVS
> >
>

Salvete friends,

Our family thanks everyone who has kept our son, Lucius (James), in
their thoughts and prayers. We are collecting all of the posts into a
binder as a large get well card for him to keep. He is only 8 years
old, but is very advanced for his age intellectually. He reads about
ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and the Celtic Tribes daily. He prefers to
play computer games about the ancient world. And, he is becoming a
walking reference on the Pantheon. He even had us make him a toga
praetexta and bulla. I have no doubt that he will ascend the cursus
honorum one day. After all, he is a THIRD generation Nova Romani. Your
thoughts, prayers and writings will remain in his library for the
remainder of his life. May your Holy Powers, whatever they may be,
continue to bless each and everyone of you.

Vale optime,
Triarius

Salve amice mi Triari! I am deeply moved and touched
to read the account of your 8 year old son Lucivs and
of his activities! The boy must be being raised a TRUE
ROMANVS!!! Good for you that you presented him with a
toga and a bulla! Does he attend sacrifices with you
daily at your Lararivm?! I am so glad to hear of Nova
Romani raising their children up in the Via Romana and
the Religio! May the Dii Immortales be ever propitii
to your son and to your Familia! Dii vos semper
ament!!! Vale! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs
--- "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

> Salvete friends,
>
> Our family thanks everyone who has kept our son,
> Lucius (James), in
> their thoughts and prayers. We are collecting all of
> the posts into a
> binder as a large get well card for him to keep. He
> is only 8 years
> old, but is very advanced for his age
> intellectually. He reads about
> ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and the Celtic Tribes
> daily. He prefers to
> play computer games about the ancient world. And, he
> is becoming a
> walking reference on the Pantheon. He even had us
> make him a toga
> praetexta and bulla. I have no doubt that he will
> ascend the cursus
> honorum one day. After all, he is a THIRD generation
> Nova Romani. Your
> thoughts, prayers and writings will remain in his
> library for the
> remainder of his life. May your Holy Powers,
> whatever they may be,
> continue to bless each and everyone of you.
>
> Vale optime,
> Triarius
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Cn. Lentulus L. Vitellio salutem quam potest plurimam dicit:


Since you write that your son's praenomen is Lucius, I copy the Latin prayer here now completed with his full name so that you be able to give him this complete version:

PRECATIO PRO LUCIO VITELLIO LUCI FILIO

INVOCATIO

Oh Di Apollo Medice et Aesculapi!
Geni Luci Vitelli Luci fili!
Lares Penates Manes Vitelliorum!

ORATIO

Vos precor venerorque quaesoque,
uti Lucium Vitellium Luci filium salvum servetis;
utique Lucium Vitellium Luci filium ab omnibus periculis liberetis;
eumque boná valetudine conservetis;
uti Lucio Vitellio Luci filio valetudinem, quá erat,
quam primum restituatis, reddatis, reficiatis;
utique Lucium Vitellium Luci filium,
eiusque patrem, matrem, domum, familiam denuo beatam faxitis!

LIBATIO

Harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando:...

(taking up the glass of wine)

...estote fitote volentes propitii
Lucio Vitellio Luci filio, eiusque patri, matri, domo, familiae!

(the wine is sacrificed in the altar)



---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

I have a very lofty goal for the new year. I would like to see the
Senate begin discussions and a planning phase, through the creative
submissions, historical knowledge, and hard efforts of all of our
citizens, for a real world complex for Nova Roma. A small start of a
complex, consisting of a small Roman town, which could be used by
members and visitors similar to the Rosicrucian Park in California.
Possibilities would include a small temple, small basilica, library,
forum, amphitheatre, circus, macellum, Insulae and domus rentals,
etc. Revenue to support this would be from tourism, a central gift
shop, chariot races and gladiatorial events, donations, special
events rentals to historical groups, etc. France and Jordan have done
this very successfully.

NOW, BEFORE ANYONE HAS A CORONARY...

Funds could be obtained through various grant sources, which prefer
to give their monies to educational and historical non-profit groups.
ExxonMobil, BP, the Ford Foundation all have about $500,000,000 LEFT
OVER every year that they cannot give away. Why? Because most people
ask for money to start businesses. These foundations DO NOT give out
their excesses for venture capital...they give to non-profits for
educational, research and historical preservation. They will tell you
on their websites that they CANNOT give their money away because they
just do not have the correct applicants. WE ARE A CORRECT APPLICANT.

Possibilities include purchasing land in the United States to build
one site and purchasing an authentic Roman site in Europe for
restoration. Annual conventus programs could be held there as well.
Other ancient groups could be permitted to use or co-host events.
There are tons of Greek historical groups who could mingle with us
Romani...we could even permit the Nova Egyptians and Celtic groups to
participate and host events as well.

Construction would not have to be extravagant to the extent of the
Basilica Iulia or Market of Trajan. The amphitheatre and circus could
be initially built in the Greek style with grass seating. Most
structures would be open air, and would not require electrical
lighting. It could be concrete, not polished marble.

IS THIS POSSIBLE? ...YES

IS THIS AN EASY TASK? ...NO

CAN IT BE ACHIEVED OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW YEARS? ...YES

Comments and thoughts?

Vale optime,
Triarius

P.S. No, Flavi Galeri, I'm not possessed and no I haven't gone to bed
yet after working all last night..LOL! (Dream + Planning + Action =
Achievable Goal)

Salvete Omnes! Can anyone please tell me if "Evoe" is
indeed a Latin toast and what does this mean in
English? When If would one use this toast? Gratias
vobis ago! Valete! Gaivs Ivlianvs


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano sal.:



A more detailed answer:

>>> If we did some sort of membership card <<<

I support the idea of an "entrance-fee" for NR and a citizenship card sent to those who are entered paying "entrance-fee" while permitting to enter those, too, who don't pay. I would divide entering newbies into two status:

1) who pay entrance-fee will be Nova Roman citizens with Roman Right.
2) who don't pay entrance-fee will be Latin citizens with Latin Right. Citizens with Latin right would not have jura publica, wouldn't be placed in tribes and centuries and would not be permitted to have tria nomina, just Latinized macronames. If a Latin citizen pays the entrance-fee, he will be a Roman citizen and can chose a Roman name etc.

As someone who is member of the Censorial Office for two years, I can confirm that we have too many applicants who are not serious. They shouldn't be granted with Nova Roman citizenship that we all consider a very serious thing. Let's create a new concept for them. It will be the Latin citizenship with jus Latinum. This is analogous with the system what Romans had.

>>> However, right now we have taxes based on a countries GNP. What this means is that US citizens pay about $15 and citizens of other counties often times only pay the equivalent of a few US $. What we have are citizens of some countries "carrying" the whole of Nova Roma. <<<

As I have mentioned earlier today, I would not agree a tax-system which is not based on GNP. This is a very humane, democratic, amiable system we have now based on GNP. This is one of the best virtues of our international community. However, I am still agreeing with you that modification on the NR taxation system has to be made. I had a proposal during the consulship of Fr. Apulus Caesar and C. Popillius Laenas which I proposed also to Ti. Galerius consul, but it remained unnoticed. The Two-Tier Taxation System. For those who want to be First Class citizens double taxes are to be paid: they would be placed in the First Class centuries and only they would be eligible to be elected as provincial and central magistrates.

>>> The problem is here: A Nova Roman citizen living in the USA pays $15

in taxes... (...)
This *IS* a problem that needs to be solved for Nova Roma to
effectively move forward. <<<


Yes, we indeed have to solve this problem. What Q. Valerius Callidus has said is a good idea. In Pannonia or Dacia, for example, we could make cheaper citizenship cards and newspapers.

>>> A major reform is necessary. <<<

Fully agreed.

>>> Thus far there have been 900+ citizenship applications this year

(although not all of these are now legitimate citizens). How many
will become assidui? <<<


Also, this is a real problem. Therefore I suggest the two-level citizenship, with serious citizens (entrance-fee) who have Roman Right and with dubious citizens (who don't pay entrance-fee) who have Latin Right.

>>> I recommend an initial tax simply to apply for citizenship in Nova

Roma. We make it too easy for people. We have a citizenship test and
a probationary period, but no financial responsibility. I would like
to see something like this: <<<<


As I have said above, I am on the same opinion.

>>> Capite Censi be a sort of "associate citizenship/ membership" with a

one time fee/tax of $20.00, with permanent capite censi status. First
year newsletter and initial citizenship card. After one year the
capite censi citizen can pay a tax for assidui status.
Assidui status with a one time fee/tax of $50.00 and would confer
permanent assidui status, and would include a year of the newsletter
and an updated citizenship card. <<<


Though I agree with you, I have other concept of implementation.

I count with the following status (in the Two-Tier Taxation System):

1) Citizens of Latin Right -- without entrance-fee: don't have jura publica
2) Citizens of Roman Right -- with entrance-fee: have jura publica, get citizenship card etc.
- a) Capite censi -- without taxpayment
- b) Assidui of the V-II classes -- simple (lower) taxes paid: have preferences in NR services (cheap newspaper etc)
- c) First Class citizens -- double (higher) taxes paid: are eligible for magistracies


Vale!



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
R O G A T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Hortensia K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano Q. Valerioque spd;

Caeso Modiane, thank for for expressing so purely what I have felt
during this thread. And that I was unable to convey to Poplicola or
Audens.
I know for a fact that the below is correct, as I belong to a
minority group that keeps an odd calendar with a mythical date

It's 5768 by the Jewish Calendar. Jews have kept their calendar for
thousands of years, celebrating their holidays & mourning the
destruction of the Temple by the future Roman emperor Titus, Tisha
B'Av.

And every year at Passover another celebration of a mythos they'd
say 'Next year in Jerusalem.' Absurd really if you think about it.

But this myth, these mos, customs led to the rebirth of Israel and
the return of Hebrew as a modern spoken language after more than
2,000 years.
So this is why I such a passionate supporter of our Roman
ways,our mos, and our practices. Whatever an archeologist digs up or
a historian supposes, it is we who will make the future!
may the gods be propitious to us;
may Fortuna favour Rome!
Marca Hortensia Maior

> Our myths give us strength and it matters not if they are

historically

> true or not. > Faith of any sort is simply a paradox because it

defies reason, so

> claims Kierkegaard and I think he is correct. Whether you embrace

the

> teachings of Christianity, the practices of Islam, or the myths of
> ancient Rome you have to defy reason and embrace the paradox of

faith.

> Things taken on faith make us irrational to a point, but tradition
> does serve a purpose.
>
> Is it rational for us modern individuals to consults natural omens
> before voting in comitia or within the senate? It might not be,

but

> it was a practice of the ancient Romans for magistrates to take the
> auspices and for augures to interpret them. In Nova Roma we have
> magistrates who "don't do augury" so our augures conduct the

necessary

> auguries in their place. Do we have to show proof, every time an
> augury is conducted, that augury is necessary and beneficial to our
> organization? Certainly not. However, we still do it.
>
> Our myths and practices are the mortar that binds us together.

They

> might not all be rational or practical or even necessary, but they
> simply are.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>

Tiberius Arminius Germanicus

Can anyone explain why we would need an ID card?
What I want most, before I pay taxes is for the provincial authorities to make some effort to interact with their citizens. I cannot remember one time my e-mails were answered by any authority. I don't think paid membership is worth only a news letter. Also, reducing members to mere "points", I think I have topped out at 50, is silly.
Membership should not be a one way street.
One last thing. It should not be up to NR to determine how "serious" we are about being a member. I know why I joined and it is none of any-ones business.



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni Modiano sal.:



A more detailed answer:

>>> If we did some sort of membership card <<<

I support the idea of an "entrance-fee" for NR and a citizenship card sent to those who are entered paying "entrance-fee" while permitting to enter those, too, who don't pay. I would divide entering newbies into two status:

1) who pay entrance-fee will be Nova Roman citizens with Roman Right.
2) who don't pay entrance-fee will be Latin citizens with Latin Right. Citizens with Latin right would not have jura publica, wouldn't be placed in tribes and centuries and would not be permitted to have tria nomina, just Latinized macronames. If a Latin citizen pays the entrance-fee, he will be a Roman citizen and can chose a Roman name etc.

As someone who is member of the Censorial Office for two years, I can confirm that we have too many applicants who are not serious. They shouldn't be granted with Nova Roman citizenship that we all consider a very serious thing. Let's create a new concept for them. It will be the Latin citizenship with jus Latinum. This is analogous with the system what Romans had.

>>> However, right now we have taxes based on a countries GNP. What this means is that US citizens pay about $15 and citizens of other counties often times only pay the equivalent of a few US $. What we have are citizens of some countries "carrying" the whole of Nova Roma. <<<

As I have mentioned earlier today, I would not agree a tax-system which is not based on GNP. This is a very humane, democratic, amiable system we have now based on GNP. This is one of the best virtues of our international community. However, I am still agreeing with you that modification on the NR taxation system has to be made. I had a proposal during the consulship of Fr. Apulus Caesar and C. Popillius Laenas which I proposed also to Ti. Galerius consul, but it remained unnoticed. The Two-Tier Taxation System. For those who want to be First Class citizens double taxes are to be paid: they would be placed in the First Class centuries and only they would be eligible to be elected as provincial and central magistrates.

>>> The problem is here: A Nova Roman citizen living in the USA pays $15

in taxes... (...)
This *IS* a problem that needs to be solved for Nova Roma to
effectively move forward. <<<


Yes, we indeed have to solve this problem. What Q. Valerius Callidus has said is a good idea. In Pannonia or Dacia, for example, we could make cheaper citizenship cards and newspapers.

>>> A major reform is necessary. <<<

Fully agreed.

>>> Thus far there have been 900+ citizenship applications this year

(although not all of these are now legitimate citizens). How many
will become assidui? <<<


Also, this is a real problem. Therefore I suggest the two-level citizenship, with serious citizens (entrance-fee) who have Roman Right and with dubious citizens (who don't pay entrance-fee) who have Latin Right.

>>> I recommend an initial tax simply to apply for citizenship in Nova

Roma. We make it too easy for people. We have a citizenship test and
a probationary period, but no financial responsibility. I would like
to see something like this: <<<<


As I have said above, I am on the same opinion.

>>> Capite Censi be a sort of "associate citizenship/ membership" with a

one time fee/tax of $20.00, with permanent capite censi status. First
year newsletter and initial citizenship card. After one year the
capite censi citizen can pay a tax for assidui status.
Assidui status with a one time fee/tax of $50.00 and would confer
permanent assidui status, and would include a year of the newsletter
and an updated citizenship card. <<<


Though I agree with you, I have other concept of implementation.

I count with the following status (in the Two-Tier Taxation System):

1) Citizens of Latin Right -- without entrance-fee: don't have jura publica
2) Citizens of Roman Right -- with entrance-fee: have jura publica, get citizenship card etc.
- a) Capite censi -- without taxpayment
- b) Assidui of the V-II classes -- simple (lower) taxes paid: have preferences in NR services (cheap newspaper etc)
- c) First Class citizens -- double (higher) taxes paid: are eligible for magistracies


Vale!



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
R O G A T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis Ti. Galerii Paulini
Scriba Praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Iuliae Caesaris Cytheridis Aeges
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberi Armini Germanice,

Tiberius Arminius Germanicus <bhsegura@...> writes:

> Can anyone explain why we would need an ID card?

Maybe somebody else can. I sure don't see a need for such a thing. I
suppose it would be like a Boy Scouts ID card, or something like that.
Something to carry around in your pocket.

> What I want most, before I pay taxes is for the provincial
> authorities to make some effort to interact with their citizens. I
> cannot remember one time my e-mails were answered by any authority.

I'm quite sure you never wrote to me then. Have you tried to contact
your provincial governor? Do you know who she is?

> I don't think paid membership is worth only a news letter. Also,
> reducing members to mere "points", I think I have topped out at 50,
> is silly.

It's true that you get century points for longevity. You can also get
them for many other things.

> Membership should not be a one way street.

With this I agree. What would you like to see Nova Roma do that it's
not doing now?

> One last thing. It should not be up to NR to determine how
> "serious" we are about being a member. I know why I joined and it is
> none of any-ones business.

Fair enough. The reasons people have for joining are their own.
However, having spent much of my own time and money trying to contact
people who've disappeared, I think it's fair to say that magistrates
are right in determining who is active and who is not.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS