Salvete,

First off, I would like to state that, as a practitioner of Religio
Romana, I understand the anger that burns in our hearts against
Christianity at times. Just in the past couple of weeks, I have had
to deal with my 5 year old daughter, who attends a _supposedly_
secular private school, coming home to tell me all about the wonders
of the "baby Jesus." Then, in the same week, while in a graduate
level course on Roman history, some of my classmates made very
disparaging remarks about the Religio. Even in the U.S.A., it can be
very trying to be a minority religion, so I can't even begin to
understand what it is like for those of my religion who live in
countries with far less tolerance.

However, maybe what we need is a little humor? I argue with Christian
friends all the time, but I've always found that trading light-hearted
responses is much more fun and results in much lower blood pressure
than the kind of discussion occurring on this ML as of late.

Besides, if we're to be historically accurate, the Christians on this
board should be bickering with each other, rather than with us
Polytheists.

EXAMPLE:

Christian1: Hey idiot, don't you realize that Jesus is of the same
substance as God, but not God?
Christian2: You Arian dog! Go peddle your heresy elsewhere!
Christian1: Stop censoring me! Freedom of speech!
Christian2: Are you retarded? Don't you realize that there can only
be one God, you Trinity-loving loon?

Hopefully, we can laugh about this, and get back to bickering about
much more important things...like the cost of video production, the
Pontifex Maximus, and American Imperialism (tm). :)

Valete,

T. IVL. CALVVS

Salvete;
I have posted this, as I really do think some people are unaware.
If you join Nova Roma and pay taxes you are supporting a pagan
organization dedicated to Roman pagan culture.

The religio, being the state religion is a natural topic of
conversation on the Main List. People join because it is a Roman
pagan org. That's why I joined.

People from other culti are welcome to join Nova Roma, warmly
welcomed, but they should realize that it is a pagan org with Roman
pagan values. We cherish these values as paramount.

Now if you belong to a cultus privatus, there are many lists and
subgroups to join in a discussion with other like-minded people.
There is the NRChristians, NRJewish Sodalitas, RR list various
polytheistic cults.

All of us live in a Christian dominated culture. Even I, in my
liberal town, am the only Roman pagan here, and yes I'm trying to do
more.

So far no Christian has yet explained to me why he or she cannot
discuss his/her faith in loving detail at the NRChristians list with
other like minded Christians.

Maybe we need to introduce into the oath of office for
magistrates: "I, (enter legal the Roman name here) swear to uphold
and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion. 'AND I abjure all superstitio privately and
publically'

I really don't know what else to do....
bene valete in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

SALVE MARINUS


I am NOT a Scientist, I am just a (Bologna)University
Graduated Electronic Engineer.

I of course agree with the idea that the Relativity
Theory is a widening of the Newton's Equations
whenever we get close to relativisic space-time
configurations.

What I wish to underline is that Science is NOT a
Dogma; there has never been and there never will be a
(Scientific) War between hordes of Scientists each
waging war in the Name of their Truth!!

VALE OPTIME
LVCIVS Q. VESTA



--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> ha
scritto:

> Salve Luci Quirini,
>
> Just in case you were wondering, you're not the only
> scientist here.
>
> Lucius Quirinus <ostiaaterni@...> writes:
>
> > Be sure that, for example, the Newton's Equations
> > will always be confirmed , as they follow the
> essence
> > of this Universe
>
> At least in reasonably 'flat' spacetime. They break
> down in places
> where the gravitational gradient is significant, as
> Einstein
> discovered back around 1915. That's why he came up
> with General
> Relativity.
>
> It's a trivial exercise to derive Newton's universal
> law of
> gravitation from the Field Equation of General
> Relativity if you set
> the gravitational derivative to zero. Anyone who's
> completed a
> graduate class in relativity has done it. So it's
> not as if Newton
> were wrong. He was just incomplete for some
> situations.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

___________________________________
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.

Salve Maior.

You wrote:

"'AND I abjure all superstitio privately and publically'

Obviously, this violates the lex Constitutiva, which states quite
clearly:

"Complete authority over their own personal and household rites,
rituals, and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this
Constitution mandates participation in the rites of the Religio
Romana, such as the case of magistrates and Senators (II.B.1)"

and therefore would violate the legal, macronational By-Laws of Nova
Roma, Inc.

Be very careful here, Maior, for you are treading on extremely
dangerous ground.
Vale,

Cato

Salve Luci Quirine,

Lucius Quirinus <ostiaaterni@...> writes:

> I am NOT a Scientist, I am just a (Bologna)University
> Graduated Electronic Engineer.

Close enough. I've known many engineers who were more careful
experimentalists than some scientists.

> there has never been and there never will be a
> (Scientific) War between hordes of Scientists each
> waging war in the Name of their Truth!!

I perceive that you've never been to a High Temperature
Superconductivity conference. The discussions have been known to
become quite heated, with strong advocacy for various positions (due
to the way that funding agencies distribute research funds.)
Scientists, I'm sorry to say, can be just as parochial and pig-headed
as anyone else at times.

But you're right that the truth will eventually come out, given the
nature of the process.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salvete,

The exclusivist attitude displayed betrays the pagan
attitude toward things religious and reflects the
Judeo-Islamic more. Never heard of a jihadist
fundamentalist pagan extremist before.

As to what to do, one could be a good Roman Stoic
and practice hesychia and apatheia.

Valete,

--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

[snip]

> I really don't know what else to do....
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> Marca Hortensia Maior

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Salve Plauta,

I do support your statement.

Optime Vale
Titus Flavius Aquila


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: liviacases <cases@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 26. Dezember 2007, 02:22:09 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Off-topic thingy

L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus sal.

there has been much talk on this list about freedom of speech in
relation to the liceity of posting about religions and religious
festivals, but too little about the appropriateness of speech to the
venue.
One doesn't go to a christian church to preach about Buddhism, one
doesn't go to a tribunal and stand up to talk about football results,
and one doesn't go to a pub and conduct a trial.

So frankly I don't understand why people think it's appropriate to
post commentaries about christian religion on the list of an
organization that's focussed on roman republican times.

Surely there are more appropriate venues for that?

Nobody's trying to curb freedom of speech here, just to direct it to
more appropriate venues.

The posts which are not appropriate for a particular mailing list are
usually called "off topic", and while some lists have stricter
policies than others on off-topic posts, usually it's a common
courtesy to mark them with "OT" in the subject line.

Of course the problem is not limited to this list: I've worn out my
finger hitting the "delete" key for all the copycat Christmas
greetings posts that infest the list I'm subscribed to, so that's why
my tolerance level has sunk, as it probably has for a lot of our
co-citizens.





Jetzt Mails schnell in einem Vorschaufenster überfliegen. Dies und viel mehr bietet das neue Yahoo! Mail - www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senator Cato,

have you ever thought about it, that your Christian eMails might turn citizens away from Nova Roma or offend them ?

New citizens who join Nova Roma - out of religious reasons- might not expect to see to such an extent the posting
of Christian eMails, festives dates etc. and might leave Nova Roma again. We can not afford to loose one single
citizen !

I know you are entitled to post your Christian eMails and as a Tribunus Plebis I will defend this right, but
please consider as well,that sometimes less is more and would help to strengthen the unity in Nova Roma.

Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 26. Dezember 2007, 00:46:51 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Christian threads

Cato A. Minuciae Marcellae sal.

Salve Minucia Marcella.

This "atmosphere of hostility" of which you speak has - in this
instance and in several past ones - been created by Minervalis and
yourself. It is obvious (from the posts which followed his last
outburst) that Minervalis has a history of being virulently
antagonistic towards Christians and Christianity; in this case you
have added to it, encouraging the kind of drivel that poured out of
Maior.

What kind of Respublica do you want, Minuciae Marcella? Do you want
a Respublica in which *all* citizens may freely and joyfully share
the feasts and joys of their own religious experience and in doing so
create a more open and understanding community, or one in which only
certain views are "allowed", and others may feel threatened or
disenfranchised by hatred, bigotry, ignorance, and misunderstanding?

As the "vocal" Christian upon whom you lower this boom, I say to you
that I have just as - IF NOT MORE - actively, vocally, publicly
encouraged, begged and pleaded with followers of the religio Romana
to express themselves, build up the State cult, be active and open
and joyful regarding their practices as I have been about sharing the
festivals of the Christian calendar. To suggest - as both you and
Maior have done - that I make note of these events in some sort of
effort to evangelize is provably innaccurate, a personal insult and
purposefully misleading. I rather expect it from Maior because she
simply doesn't pay attention to anything with which she disagrees,
but please refrain from repeating this nonsense.

"Oh, there's no place like home for the holidays..."

Vale,

Cato





Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's:
http://de.yahoo.com/set

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

L. Vitellius Triarius Novaromani SPD.

Salvete omnes,

I would like to welcome all of our new citizens to Nova Roma during
these Saturnalihannukristmas days. As you have noticed, there is a
very HEATED discussion going on in the Forum Romanum as we speak. You
asked for Ancient Rome...you got it! Blood thirsty, cut throat,
vicious attacks...it's all here. But, that is very Roman.

Cato vs. Minervalis, who wins? BOTH DO...It's the Forum!

All new citizens must remember that their are many different
cultures, groups, opinions and feelings in Nova Roma. Many sugggest:

Christian topics should be talked about in the NR Christians list.
Jewish topics should be talked about in the NR Jewish list.
Religio Romana topics should be discussed in the RR list.

They are correct.

ANYTHING MAY BE DISCUSSED IN THE FORUM ROMANUM WITHOUT CENSORSHIP!
(unless it violated the Yahoo TOS, of course.)

If you post something here, be prepared to defend yourself. You see,
my Mother always told me never to talk religion and politics with
friends...she never came here. In the next few weeks and months, the
new leadership will be discussing and proposing new ideas and you
will see the same type of eruption occur, except it will be of a
political nature, rather than a religious one.

The one thing we all have to remember is that the ancient Forum
Romanum was LARGE. Cato and others could debate Christianity in one
corner. Minervalis and company could discuss the current absence of
Concordia in another corner. Maior could discuss eastern and Jewish
thought with others in yet another. If you did not like the group's
topic, you could move on about your business to another area of the
Forum. We cannot do that here. So we all have to listen to each
other's "crap" or "wisdom" depending on how you look at it.

If you take a minute to click on the link I have included below, you
will find links to dozens of NR projects, many which have limited
activity or have been mainly forgotten about because no one knows
they exist. The other main problem on this list is after 10 years,
there are a lot of cives who do nothing but read and post to this
list. If they do not agree to something on this list, they just have
to hold their hands over their ears/eyes or react.

If our citizenry redirected the energy that has occurred on this list
(in the form of hostility) to some of these other projects, some of
them might take off and be successful and we might all have less
blood pressure problems.

I am really getting tired of hearing everyone scream "stop it or I
quit". If that is how you really feel, then dammit, quit! IT IS NOT
YOUR PERSONAL NOVA ROMA!! It belongs to all of us. You, me, the 2-
year old kid down the street who will one day be a Consul. Just
think, he or she can look back one day and say, "Wow, I just didn't
know my Mom or Dad could really show their butt in public like
that...what the heck is up with that?"

What we all need to remember is that when we post, we should
understand and accept that it is very Roman to speak your mind,
attack your enemy, and hold a grudge. Not that I particularly
advocate that (at least not in all cases), but it is Roman and thus
acceptable. We need to stop insulting others and use our experiences
here to BECOME BETTER ORATORS AND DEBATERS.

How? Go read the Roman Virtues...AND ACTUALLY TRY TO FOLLOW THEM ON A
DAILY BASIS! If your are RR, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist,
Zoroastrian, Minervalisian...the Virtues will not conflict with your
belief system. Learn them and use them. I keep a copy of them in my
wallet to periodically refer to.

There are over ONE THOUSAND people signed on to this list, most of
them do not, nor will ever post, because of the violent nature of
responses and counter-responses. But, you know, that is okay...they
stay here. Why? Because they learn something about Rome periodically
that they did not know. We are a social experiment, revisited after
2000 years.

If you can't handle your religious views being attacked or
questioned, then post in the safety of the religious lists. I am a
Roman Reconstructionst married to a Roman Catholic. We debate, but
both know where to draw the line and shut up when talking together.
We all could learn a little more tolerance.

If you can't handle your political views being attacked...tough. This
is the main political list. If you feel that there is something major
to discuss politically but are not yet up to the lions in the Forum,
then start a list for your particular political factio on the topic.
You can hound it out there and elect a representative to come here
and get assassinated or hailed, depending on the reception.

Just don't quit NR...find your place in it. We have many cives who
contribute liberally to other areas and never come to the main list.

Oh, and...don't even think of sending your thugs after me on the
streets after reading this post! I know a kid that's got TWO..count
em...TWO of those Roman playmobil ships!! I'll get him to send em up
the Tiber to personally visit your domus, buddy!!! WE HAVE AN
ALLIANCE!!!!

Vale optime,
Triarius ;)

P.S. Do Minervalisians attend any sort of Mass or is it just mainly a
private inversion immersion into paganism spiritualism?

(That's HUMOR--don't anyone get "pissy")

OSD C. Equitius Cato

Salvete omnes.

Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and pieces of Christian
stuff over the past few years and it has never before really started
such a firestorm of protest and indignation. The topic of
Christianity has, but never simply the recognition of certain days
sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to the fact that often I
tacked them on to the ends of the regular daily calendar, exactly as
Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from the philosophers, and so
they did not stand out so much; they were recognized for exactly what
they were, simply another event on another day, but focussed on a
different cultus. For that matter, I posted about many many various
religious observations - everything from Japan to Norway to Ceylon,
simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were new and interesting
connections to our citizens.

The fact that the Christian holidays are pervasive in much of the
West is simply a matter of historical fact, and nothing anyone can do
can change that. Does that mean I should be asked (or forced, if
Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was trampled on and my
rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply because people have a knee-
jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its influence? Is it fair
to ask the adherents of one single cult to be silent while allowing -
even encouraging - any or all other cults to speak? As I have made
quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable. Some here do. Once
again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way) lies the rub.

We are a Respublica with a State cult. Citizens are encouraged to
enjoy the practice of the State cult. Magistrates are required to
make sure that the State cult is practiced on their behalf if they do
not practice it themselves. We have an (admittedly barely-
functioning) religious apparatus to foster knowledge of and give
support to the State cult. Attacking Christianity with such
virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to what some seem to
think, advance the cause of or enhance the reputation of the State
cult. Making it into a bugbear of such proportions only serves to
underline its power and authority - realistically, whatever little is
left - in society today.

Vale,

Cato

OOOOPS!

Forgot the link to all those wonderful NR projects you can get involved
in:

http://tinyurl.com/2jlpsu

IO SATURNALIA! Happy Hannukah! Merry Christmas! Ioyius Minervalisia!

Vale optime,
Triarius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes.
>

Does that mean I should be asked (or forced, if

> Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was trampled on and my
> rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply because people have a knee-
> jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its influence?

No one is forcing you. I thought you could perhaps take it upon
yourself to refrain, but I can see you're not going to, so just drop
it. Expect more criticism when you do it again.


Is it fair

> to ask the adherents of one single cult to be silent while allowing -
> even encouraging - any or all other cults to speak?

The Roman Religion is not any or all, it is the state religion.



As I have made

> quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable. Some here do. Once
> again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way) lies the rub.
>

You can stop using that phrase, especially since it's a misquote(and
it is a misquote, no one uses the work "rub" to mean problem in modern
common speech). If you want to say "here's the problem", just say
"here's the problem". And you're wrong again cause the problem you are
pointing out doesn't exist. No one is saying all other cults besides
christianity should post. And no one has taken any steps to force
christians to not post about their cult.

No one is persecuting you. No one is persecuting your religion. Enough
already.



Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

Salvete,

In what may appear tangential to Cato's arguments, I
offer a further defense.

I would like to point out that, while the west
underwent a "dark ages" (no texts and low literacy),
the Byzantine east did not. Almost all of our
knowledge of ancient times is due to the preservation
and teaching of all the classics at the University of
Constantinople and preserved by the Byzantine Orthodox
Christians (who thought themselves Romans as did the
Turks who conquered them). Without the Fall of
Constantinople with its refugee scholars, many
scholars would say the Italian Renaissance would have
never occured (in the form we know it), nor perhaps,
the Enlightenment. So, like it or not, as a
reconstructionist project, Nova Roma owes a massive
historical debt to the Christian Roman Empire - the
Orthodox Byzantine Empire. BTW, unlike ancient Rome,
women were allowed to attend university in Byzantium.

--- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

> OSD C. Equitius Cato
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and
> pieces of Christian
> stuff over the past few years and it has never
> before really started
> such a firestorm of protest and indignation. The
> topic of
> Christianity has, but never simply the recognition
> of certain days
> sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to the
> fact that often I
> tacked them on to the ends of the regular daily
> calendar, exactly as
> Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from the
> philosophers, and so
> they did not stand out so much; they were recognized
> for exactly what
> they were, simply another event on another day, but
> focussed on a
> different cultus. For that matter, I posted about
> many many various
> religious observations - everything from Japan to
> Norway to Ceylon,
> simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were new
> and interesting
> connections to our citizens.
>
> The fact that the Christian holidays are pervasive
> in much of the
> West is simply a matter of historical fact, and
> nothing anyone can do
> can change that. Does that mean I should be asked
> (or forced, if
> Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was
> trampled on and my
> rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply because
> people have a knee-
> jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its
> influence? Is it fair
> to ask the adherents of one single cult to be silent
> while allowing -
> even encouraging - any or all other cults to speak?
> As I have made
> quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable.
> Some here do. Once
> again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way)
> lies the rub.
>
> We are a Respublica with a State cult. Citizens are
> encouraged to
> enjoy the practice of the State cult. Magistrates
> are required to
> make sure that the State cult is practiced on their
> behalf if they do
> not practice it themselves. We have an (admittedly
> barely-
> functioning) religious apparatus to foster knowledge
> of and give
> support to the State cult. Attacking Christianity
> with such
> virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to what
> some seem to
> think, advance the cause of or enhance the
> reputation of the State
> cult. Making it into a bugbear of such proportions
> only serves to
> underline its power and authority - realistically,
> whatever little is
> left - in society today.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Salve,

What exactly are you defending with this? And I'm pretty sure your
evidence is arguable and I'm equally sure there's someone here that's
going to dispute it.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> In what may appear tangential to Cato's arguments, I
> offer a further defense.
>
> I would like to point out that, while the west
> underwent a "dark ages" (no texts and low literacy),
> the Byzantine east did not. Almost all of our
> knowledge of ancient times is due to the preservation
> and teaching of all the classics at the University of
> Constantinople and preserved by the Byzantine Orthodox
> Christians (who thought themselves Romans as did the
> Turks who conquered them). Without the Fall of
> Constantinople with its refugee scholars, many
> scholars would say the Italian Renaissance would have
> never occured (in the form we know it), nor perhaps,
> the Enlightenment. So, like it or not, as a
> reconstructionist project, Nova Roma owes a massive
> historical debt to the Christian Roman Empire - the
> Orthodox Byzantine Empire. BTW, unlike ancient Rome,
> women were allowed to attend university in Byzantium.
>
> --- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> >
> > Salvete omnes.
> >
> > Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and
> > pieces of Christian
> > stuff over the past few years and it has never
> > before really started
> > such a firestorm of protest and indignation. The
> > topic of
> > Christianity has, but never simply the recognition
> > of certain days
> > sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to the
> > fact that often I
> > tacked them on to the ends of the regular daily
> > calendar, exactly as
> > Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from the
> > philosophers, and so
> > they did not stand out so much; they were recognized
> > for exactly what
> > they were, simply another event on another day, but
> > focussed on a
> > different cultus. For that matter, I posted about
> > many many various
> > religious observations - everything from Japan to
> > Norway to Ceylon,
> > simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were new
> > and interesting
> > connections to our citizens.
> >
> > The fact that the Christian holidays are pervasive
> > in much of the
> > West is simply a matter of historical fact, and
> > nothing anyone can do
> > can change that. Does that mean I should be asked
> > (or forced, if
> > Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was
> > trampled on and my
> > rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply because
> > people have a knee-
> > jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its
> > influence? Is it fair
> > to ask the adherents of one single cult to be silent
> > while allowing -
> > even encouraging - any or all other cults to speak?
> > As I have made
> > quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable.
> > Some here do. Once
> > again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way)
> > lies the rub.
> >
> > We are a Respublica with a State cult. Citizens are
> > encouraged to
> > enjoy the practice of the State cult. Magistrates
> > are required to
> > make sure that the State cult is practiced on their
> > behalf if they do
> > not practice it themselves. We have an (admittedly
> > barely-
> > functioning) religious apparatus to foster knowledge
> > of and give
> > support to the State cult. Attacking Christianity
> > with such
> > virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to what
> > some seem to
> > think, advance the cause of or enhance the
> > reputation of the State
> > cult. Making it into a bugbear of such proportions
> > only serves to
> > underline its power and authority - realistically,
> > whatever little is
> > left - in society today.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
>
>
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> America Austrorientalis
>
>
> Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus
>
> ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
>
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

--Salvete Marcellae Regulae spd:
actually Regulus is wrong. It is very Roman to get upset
over 'foreign' religions and care about religious purity. And they
had an answer: they expelled them!

In 139 and 33 B.C astrologers were expelled from Rome. Rhetors,
diviners, Jews and Isis followers were expelled too.

During the reign of Tiberius. Jews and Egyptians were required to
renounce their superstitio by a certain date.

So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
superstitio.

Of course it all depends on how people conduct themselves;-)

As for Stoicism, it is not my philosophy at all! I dislike it in the
extreme.
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy

>
> Salve,
>
> What exactly are you defending with this? And I'm pretty sure your
> evidence is arguable and I'm equally sure there's someone here

that's

> going to dispute it.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <a_sempronius_regulus@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > In what may appear tangential to Cato's arguments, I
> > offer a further defense.
> >
> > I would like to point out that, while the west
> > underwent a "dark ages" (no texts and low literacy),
> > the Byzantine east did not. Almost all of our
> > knowledge of ancient times is due to the preservation
> > and teaching of all the classics at the University of
> > Constantinople and preserved by the Byzantine Orthodox
> > Christians (who thought themselves Romans as did the
> > Turks who conquered them). Without the Fall of
> > Constantinople with its refugee scholars, many
> > scholars would say the Italian Renaissance would have
> > never occured (in the form we know it), nor perhaps,
> > the Enlightenment. So, like it or not, as a
> > reconstructionist project, Nova Roma owes a massive
> > historical debt to the Christian Roman Empire - the
> > Orthodox Byzantine Empire. BTW, unlike ancient Rome,
> > women were allowed to attend university in Byzantium.
> >
> > --- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes.
> > >
> > > Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and
> > > pieces of Christian
> > > stuff over the past few years and it has never
> > > before really started
> > > such a firestorm of protest and indignation. The
> > > topic of
> > > Christianity has, but never simply the recognition
> > > of certain days
> > > sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to the
> > > fact that often I
> > > tacked them on to the ends of the regular daily
> > > calendar, exactly as
> > > Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from the
> > > philosophers, and so
> > > they did not stand out so much; they were recognized
> > > for exactly what
> > > they were, simply another event on another day, but
> > > focussed on a
> > > different cultus. For that matter, I posted about
> > > many many various
> > > religious observations - everything from Japan to
> > > Norway to Ceylon,
> > > simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were new
> > > and interesting
> > > connections to our citizens.
> > >
> > > The fact that the Christian holidays are pervasive
> > > in much of the
> > > West is simply a matter of historical fact, and
> > > nothing anyone can do
> > > can change that. Does that mean I should be asked
> > > (or forced, if
> > > Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was
> > > trampled on and my
> > > rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply because
> > > people have a knee-
> > > jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its
> > > influence? Is it fair
> > > to ask the adherents of one single cult to be silent
> > > while allowing -
> > > even encouraging - any or all other cults to speak?
> > > As I have made
> > > quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable.
> > > Some here do. Once
> > > again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way)
> > > lies the rub.
> > >
> > > We are a Respublica with a State cult. Citizens are
> > > encouraged to
> > > enjoy the practice of the State cult. Magistrates
> > > are required to
> > > make sure that the State cult is practiced on their
> > > behalf if they do
> > > not practice it themselves. We have an (admittedly
> > > barely-
> > > functioning) religious apparatus to foster knowledge
> > > of and give
> > > support to the State cult. Attacking Christianity
> > > with such
> > > virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to what
> > > some seem to
> > > think, advance the cause of or enhance the
> > > reputation of the State
> > > cult. Making it into a bugbear of such proportions
> > > only serves to
> > > underline its power and authority - realistically,
> > > whatever little is
> > > left - in society today.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > America Austrorientalis
> >
> >
> > Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> > Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> > Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus
> >
> > ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

_____________________________________________________________________
_______________

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>

Salve,
In classic ivy-league Ph.D fashion,


--- Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

> Salve,
>
> What exactly are you defending with this?

Confused?

> And I'm
> pretty sure your
> evidence is arguable

And the evidential basis of your
being "pretty sure" is what? Or is
it just emotional prejudice like a
confidence in your own egocentric
rightness without reasons?

> and I'm equally sure there's
> someone here that's
> going to dispute it.

Ah, the cheap way of saying
"I'm pretty sure you are wrong
and somebody else will do my job
for me". The alleged disputant
can dispute all they want. The
question is what is their evidence.

Since in real life I am a Ph.D from
an Ivy-League school, college professor
and recognized as an authority in this
field (sitting on international conference
committees evaluating the academic merits
of proposed papers being delivered as well
as a manuscript reviewer for academic
publishers), perhaps you'd prefer to
look a bit less foolish than you already
do.

>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius
> Regulus"
> <a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > In what may appear tangential to Cato's arguments,
> I
> > offer a further defense.
> >
> > I would like to point out that, while the west
> > underwent a "dark ages" (no texts and low
> literacy),
> > the Byzantine east did not. Almost all of our
> > knowledge of ancient times is due to the
> preservation
> > and teaching of all the classics at the University
> of
> > Constantinople and preserved by the Byzantine
> Orthodox
> > Christians (who thought themselves Romans as did
> the
> > Turks who conquered them). Without the Fall of
> > Constantinople with its refugee scholars, many
> > scholars would say the Italian Renaissance would
> have
> > never occured (in the form we know it), nor
> perhaps,
> > the Enlightenment. So, like it or not, as a
> > reconstructionist project, Nova Roma owes a
> massive
> > historical debt to the Christian Roman Empire -
> the
> > Orthodox Byzantine Empire. BTW, unlike ancient
> Rome,
> > women were allowed to attend university in
> Byzantium.
> >
> > --- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes.
> > >
> > > Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and
> > > pieces of Christian
> > > stuff over the past few years and it has never
> > > before really started
> > > such a firestorm of protest and indignation.
> The
> > > topic of
> > > Christianity has, but never simply the
> recognition
> > > of certain days
> > > sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to
> the
> > > fact that often I
> > > tacked them on to the ends of the regular daily
> > > calendar, exactly as
> > > Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from the
> > > philosophers, and so
> > > they did not stand out so much; they were
> recognized
> > > for exactly what
> > > they were, simply another event on another day,
> but
> > > focussed on a
> > > different cultus. For that matter, I posted
> about
> > > many many various
> > > religious observations - everything from Japan
> to
> > > Norway to Ceylon,
> > > simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were
> new
> > > and interesting
> > > connections to our citizens.
> > >
> > > The fact that the Christian holidays are
> pervasive
> > > in much of the
> > > West is simply a matter of historical fact, and
> > > nothing anyone can do
> > > can change that. Does that mean I should be
> asked
> > > (or forced, if
> > > Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was
> > > trampled on and my
> > > rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply
> because
> > > people have a knee-
> > > jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its
> > > influence? Is it fair
> > > to ask the adherents of one single cult to be
> silent
> > > while allowing -
> > > even encouraging - any or all other cults to
> speak?
> > > As I have made
> > > quite clear, I do not think this is reasonable.
> > > Some here do. Once
> > > again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the way)
> > > lies the rub.
> > >
> > > We are a Respublica with a State cult. Citizens
> are
> > > encouraged to
> > > enjoy the practice of the State cult.
> Magistrates
> > > are required to
> > > make sure that the State cult is practiced on
> their
> > > behalf if they do
> > > not practice it themselves. We have an
> (admittedly
> > > barely-
> > > functioning) religious apparatus to foster
> knowledge
> > > of and give
> > > support to the State cult. Attacking
> Christianity
> > > with such
> > > virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to
> what
> > > some seem to
> > > think, advance the cause of or enhance the
> > > reputation of the State
> > > cult. Making it into a bugbear of such
> proportions
> > > only serves to
> > > underline its power and authority -
> realistically,
> > > whatever little is
> > > left - in society today.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > America Austrorientalis
> >
> >
> > Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> > Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> > Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius
> Atratinus
> >
> > ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Salve Piperbarbus,

A most excellent work...and at a time well needed!

Valete optime,
Triarius


" <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> Avete;
>
> Something I completed while I was afk the past couple of weeks.
>
> Concordance: A Poetic Offering
>
> XXVI December MMDCCLX AUC
>
> In the shadow, of the forum
> Stands a temple, white and gleaming
> Stately columns, carved of marble
> Sculptured portals, crafted in bronze
>
> In the lamplight, of the fanum
> Stands a statue, o'er the altar
> Face is kindly, beatific
> Inviting all, to her embrace
>
> Crowds are bustling, scurry, hurry
> 'Round this building, looked at, unseen
> Inside the hall, it is silent
> Save for the few, who tend the shrine
>
> Each and ev'ry, man and woman
> Has opinion, has a good plan
> Of what to build, what to discard
> Of what is right, and what is wrong
>
> As all are free, owning themselves
> No one nay says, their right to speak
> Their piece of mind, their argument
> However wrought, within their hearts
>
> Comes a young man, full of promise
> To the city, roaring its life
> Sees a need to, calm the hubbub
> Desires to, set a new tone
>
> Comes the young man, to the temple
> Reads the words, above its door
> Come, pass within, and join together
> Then, pass without, and remember
>
> Comes to young man, curious thought
> He steps inside, alone he stands
> Sees the statue, walks towards it
> Stops at altar, looks around
>
> Reads the young man, all inscriptions
> Learns the Name, of deity
> Honored here, in the naos
> Concordia, he knows Her call
>
> On the altar, is a brazier
> Gently smoking, wafting high
> From a coffer, he takes incense
> Thinks deep a bit, makes offering
>
> He dedicates, himself to Her
> And pledges true, his will to help
> Bring calmness to, city's discourse
> Bring amity, to hearts of all
>
> How to do this, what will he say
> To help his fellow, Romans to see
> That difference, of opinion
> Need not be the, mother of strife
>
> By example, he will show way
> To disagree, but remain calm
> To see the goal, of building well
> So Republic, will grow and live
>
> So the young man, offered himself
> As acolyte, to concordance
> With cheerful heart, and cheerful words
> He set to work, to forge new bonds
>
> In the shadow, of the forum
> Stands a temple, white and gleaming
> Stately columns, carved of marble
> Sculptured portals, crafted in bronze
>
> In the lamplight, of the fanum
> Stands a statue, o'er the altar
> Face is kindly, beatific
> Inviting all, to her embrace
>
> =========================================
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Civis - Poet
>

Maior <rory12001@...> writes:

> So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
> feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
> superstitio.

Not while I have anything to say about it.

You have gone too far madam. You may expect me to be in contact with
the praetors elect. Prepare your legal defense.


CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

M. Hortensia Regulo Catoni spd:

as a professor may I suggest you read your Roman religious history.
Romans in the Republic were anxious to protect the purity of their
religio when they felt threatened and expelled Chaldeans
(astrologers) Isis worshipper and Jews. So it's a very Roman problem
with a very Roman solution!

I don't think it needs come to this. I think we can all live
together harmoniously if people make the effort and respect the cult
of the gods, the people and talk about their cultus privatus on
their dedicated lists.

Maior

>
> The exclusivist attitude displayed betrays the pagan
> attitude toward things religious and reflects the
> Judeo-Islamic more. Never heard of a jihadist
> fundamentalist pagan extremist before.
>
> As to what to do, one could be a good Roman Stoic
> and practice hesychia and apatheia.
>
> Valete,
>
> --- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I really don't know what else to do....
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
>
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> America Austrorientalis
>
>
> Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus
>
> ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
>
>
>
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
_______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping

>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
> In classic ivy-league Ph.D fashion,

In a normal person fashion,

>
>
> --- Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
> > Salve,
> >
> > What exactly are you defending with this?
>
> Confused?

Your "defense" has nothing to do with the fact people are annoyed with
so many christian posts. Perhaps you are the one who is confused.

>
> > And I'm
> > pretty sure your
> > evidence is arguable
>
> And the evidential basis of your
> being "pretty sure" is what?

Because you can not possibly be sure what would've happened had
christianity not been around. You can only guess and hypothesize, you
can only suppose.


Or is

> it just emotional prejudice like a
> confidence in your own egocentric
> rightness without reasons?

I don't have any prejudice(enotional or not), and I'm definitely not
egocentric. I'm simply point out that what you have stated is
arguable. Why does that make me prejudiced?

>
> > and I'm equally sure there's
> > someone here that's
> > going to dispute it.
>
>
> Ah, the cheap way of saying
> "I'm pretty sure you are wrong
> and somebody else will do my job
> for me".

I guess you can see it that way if you want to be mean about it. I'm
not sure it is my "job" per se to contradict what you've written. But,
what I meant by that statement is that people here do a pretty good
job of refuting what others say, and this is from a few years of being
on this list.


The alleged disputant

> can dispute all they want. The
> question is what is their evidence.
>

Why is that the question? This entire thing is speculation. Are you
trying to say that Nova Roma could not exist without christianity,
therefore we must never say word against any christian due to our
massive debt? I would have to politely disagree with that supposition.
I believe a better question would be, why does it matter what the
christians did?

> Since in real life I am a Ph.D from
> an Ivy-League school, college professor
> and recognized as an authority in this
> field (sitting on international conference
> committees evaluating the academic merits
> of proposed papers being delivered as well
> as a manuscript reviewer for academic
> publishers), perhaps you'd prefer to
> look a bit less foolish than you already
> do.
> >

I wouldn't consider myself foolish just because I doubt statements
from someone high and mighty as yourself. I never went to college, and
I never sit in on conferences for anything. I guess it's such a
terrible thing for you to converse with such a lowly uneducated person
as myself.

Pardon me, O wise one.

-Annia Minucia Marcella

She has to prepare her legal defense for what? Is she be prosecuted
for something?

-Annia Minucia Marcella


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

>
> Maior <rory12001@...> writes:
>
> > So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
> > feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
> > superstitio.
>
> Not while I have anything to say about it.
>
> You have gone too far madam. You may expect me to be in contact with
> the praetors elect. Prepare your legal defense.
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Salvete omnes,

You don't even know which thread you are responding to
-- you are in such a pathological logomachia. Its to
be expected that addicts to logomachia and patheia
will depise the therapy of hesychia and apatheia.

And the upset over foreign religions was not over the
religion, per se, but criminal offenses. For example,
the ban on bacchanalia was the result of a relative of
the potential victim of sexual abuse and murder filing
a criminal complaint that made it to the Senate.
Original jihadists (need scripture chapter and
verse?), the Jews were a political torment which
eventually led to the destruction of the second Temple
and the burning of Jerusalem to the ground a few years
later. The issue was not religion but rebellion.
Before the gnostics (the first outright attack on the
Jewish religion and its god, per se), difficulties
with other religions were on political or moral
grounds.



--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> --Salvete Marcellae Regulae spd:
> actually Regulus is wrong. It is very Roman to
> get upset
> over 'foreign' religions and care about religious
> purity. And they
> had an answer: they expelled them!
>
> In 139 and 33 B.C astrologers were expelled from
> Rome. Rhetors,
> diviners, Jews and Isis followers were expelled too.
>
> During the reign of Tiberius. Jews and Egyptians
> were required to
> renounce their superstitio by a certain date.
>
> So we could historically expell Christians say for a
> month, if we
> feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to
> renounce their
> superstitio.
>
> Of course it all depends on how people conduct
> themselves;-)
>
> As for Stoicism, it is not my philosophy at all! I
> dislike it in the
> extreme.
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum

>

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy

>
>
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > What exactly are you defending with this? And I'm
> pretty sure your
> > evidence is arguable and I'm equally sure there's
> someone here
> that's
> > going to dispute it.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius
> Regulus"
> > <a_sempronius_regulus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete,
> > >
> > > In what may appear tangential to Cato's
> arguments, I
> > > offer a further defense.
> > >
> > > I would like to point out that, while the west
> > > underwent a "dark ages" (no texts and low
> literacy),
> > > the Byzantine east did not. Almost all of our
> > > knowledge of ancient times is due to the
> preservation
> > > and teaching of all the classics at the
> University of
> > > Constantinople and preserved by the Byzantine
> Orthodox
> > > Christians (who thought themselves Romans as did
> the
> > > Turks who conquered them). Without the Fall of
> > > Constantinople with its refugee scholars, many
> > > scholars would say the Italian Renaissance would
> have
> > > never occured (in the form we know it), nor
> perhaps,
> > > the Enlightenment. So, like it or not, as a
> > > reconstructionist project, Nova Roma owes a
> massive
> > > historical debt to the Christian Roman Empire -
> the
> > > Orthodox Byzantine Empire. BTW, unlike ancient
> Rome,
> > > women were allowed to attend university in
> Byzantium.
> > >
> > > --- Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > OSD C. Equitius Cato
> > > >
> > > > Salvete omnes.
> > > >
> > > > Minucia Marcella, I have been posting bits and
> > > > pieces of Christian
> > > > stuff over the past few years and it has never
> > > > before really started
> > > > such a firestorm of protest and indignation.
> The
> > > > topic of
> > > > Christianity has, but never simply the
> recognition
> > > > of certain days
> > > > sacred to Christianity. This *may* be due to
> the
> > > > fact that often I
> > > > tacked them on to the ends of the regular
> daily
> > > > calendar, exactly as
> > > > Moravius Piscinus does with his quotes from
> the
> > > > philosophers, and so
> > > > they did not stand out so much; they were
> recognized
> > > > for exactly what
> > > > they were, simply another event on another
> day, but
> > > > focussed on a
> > > > different cultus. For that matter, I posted
> about
> > > > many many various
> > > > religious observations - everything from Japan
> to
> > > > Norway to Ceylon,
> > > > simply as a way of bringing what I hoped were
> new
> > > > and interesting
> > > > connections to our citizens.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that the Christian holidays are
> pervasive
> > > > in much of the
> > > > West is simply a matter of historical fact,
> and
> > > > nothing anyone can do
> > > > can change that. Does that mean I should be
> asked
> > > > (or forced, if
> > > > Maior had her way and the lex Constitutiva was
> > > > trampled on and my
> > > > rights abrogated) to keep silence - simply
> because
> > > > people have a knee-
> > > > jerk reaction to Christianity and despise its
> > > > influence? Is it fair
> > > > to ask the adherents of one single cult to be
> silent
> > > > while allowing -
> > > > even encouraging - any or all other cults to
> speak?
> > > > As I have made
> > > > quite clear, I do not think this is
> reasonable.
> > > > Some here do. Once
> > > > again, therein (not quoting anybody, by the
> way)
> > > > lies the rub.
> > > >
> > > > We are a Respublica with a State cult.
> Citizens are
> > > > encouraged to
> > > > enjoy the practice of the State cult.
> Magistrates
> > > > are required to
> > > > make sure that the State cult is practiced on
> their
> > > > behalf if they do
> > > > not practice it themselves. We have an
> (admittedly
> > > > barely-
> > > > functioning) religious apparatus to foster
> knowledge
> > > > of and give
> > > > support to the State cult. Attacking
> Christianity
> > > > with such
> > > > virulence and disdain does *not*, contrary to
> what
> > > > some seem to
> > > > think, advance the cause of or enhance the
> > > > reputation of the State
> > > > cult. Making it into a bugbear of such
> proportions
> > > > only serves to
> > > > underline its power and authority -
> realistically,
> > > > whatever little is
> > > > left - in society today.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> > >
> > > America Austrorientalis
> > >
> > >
> > > Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> > > Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> > > Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius
> Atratinus
> > >
> > > ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

_____________________________________________________________________

> _______________
> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > >
> >
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Salve Sir,

Need a witness?

--- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:

> Maior <rory12001@...> writes:
>
> > So we could historically expell Christians say for
> a month, if we
> > feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to
> renounce their
> > superstitio.
>
> Not while I have anything to say about it.
>
> You have gone too far madam. You may expect me to
> be in contact with
> the praetors elect. Prepare your legal defense.
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<a_sempronius_regulus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Sir,
>
> Need a witness?
>

Consideringeveryhtin said here is in the archives, what exactly would
you be a witness for?

-Annai Minucia Marcella

> --- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> > Maior <rory12001@...> writes:
> >
> > > So we could historically expell Christians say for
> > a month, if we
> > > feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to
> > renounce their
> > > superstitio.
> >
> > Not while I have anything to say about it.
> >
> > You have gone too far madam. You may expect me to
> > be in contact with
> > the praetors elect. Prepare your legal defense.
> >
> >
> > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
> >
>
>
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> America Austrorientalis
>
>
> Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus
>
> ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
>
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

>

Some of the major temples built in the forum in
Republican times were not public but private cult
temples dedicated by very rich patrons.

So, private cults were NOT hidden away out of
the sight of the forum. Even state funds were used
to maintain temples that were not public but private.

--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> M. Hortensia Regulo Catoni spd:
>
> as a professor may I suggest you read your Roman
> religious history.
> Romans in the Republic were anxious to protect the
> purity of their
> religio when they felt threatened and expelled
> Chaldeans
> (astrologers) Isis worshipper and Jews. So it's a
> very Roman problem
> with a very Roman solution!
>
> I don't think it needs come to this. I think we can
> all live
> together harmoniously if people make the effort and
> respect the cult
> of the gods, the people and talk about their cultus
> privatus on
> their dedicated lists.
>
> Maior
>
>
> >
> > The exclusivist attitude displayed betrays the
> pagan
> > attitude toward things religious and reflects the
> > Judeo-Islamic more. Never heard of a jihadist
> > fundamentalist pagan extremist before.
> >
> > As to what to do, one could be a good Roman Stoic
> > and practice hesychia and apatheia.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > --- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > I really don't know what else to do....
> > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
> >
> >
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > America Austrorientalis
> >
> >
> > Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
> > Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
> > Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius
> Atratinus
> >
> > ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

_____________________________________________________________________

> _______________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?

> category=shopping
> >
>
>
>

A. Sempronius Regulus

America Austrorientalis


Vincit qui se vincit. - Seneca
Vivere disce, cogita mori. - Cicero
Ubi spiritus est cantus est. - Sempronius Atratinus

ANNI MMDCCLX AVC (anno urbis conditae - a.u.c.)





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Ave Triarius;

On 12/26/07, L. Vitellius Triarius wrote:
>
> Salve Piperbarbus,
>
> A most excellent work...and at a time well needed!
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>

Thank you; I'd been thinking of Concordia for some time now and how we
could all use a bit more of Her influence in all our lives; here and
in the wider world around us.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis - Poet
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:

> She has to prepare her legal defense for what? Is she be prosecuted
> for something?

Yes.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

>
> Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:
>
> > She has to prepare her legal defense for what? Is she be prosecuted
> > for something?
>
> Yes.
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Answer the first question, please. I would loathe to think that she
might be punished for any statements she has made, considering we have
freedom of speech.

-Annia Minucia Marcella

Avitus Majori optimæ suæ S·P·D

> I think this is utterly brilliant.

Thank you. It is obviously something that the 1234 members of this
list, most of them self-calling citizens of I don't know what
virtual cloudcuckooland, don't consider brilliant enough to even
come back with one word about it, even though it is something well
enshrined in the Declaration as an essential part of our
foundational aims
http://novaroma.org/nr/Declaration_%28Nova_Roma%29

> Is this an ongoing project?

Obviously not. From the meagre response gathered (only two replies,
yours and Scholastica's), and everything else discussed in the last
few days, people here prefer to waste their time arguing about their
respective superstitions, or making the most awsome efforts to bury
everybody deeper down in cyberspace with ever more time-consuming
parallel, virtual worlds. Well, I'm not going to follow them there.

> this is vision! this is our future!!

Thanks for your enthusiastic response. I do think that is (was?) the
only future a real Nova Roma could have (have had?), but the will is
obviously not there. Very sad indeed. We'll have to wait for better
times.

Cura ut valeas optime!

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:
>>
>> > She has to prepare her legal defense for what? Is she be prosecuted
>> > for something?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>>
>
>
> Answer the first question, please.

I am not a child to be so addressed madam. She should prepare a legal
defense because I am prosecuting her. Thus my one word answer was
sufficient to answer both your questions, as the second question was
dependent on the first. For the benefit of those who may have missed
my posting of the specific law in question some few days ago, I refer
to the Offenses against Piety section of the Lex Salicia Poenalis.

> I would loathe to think that she
> might be punished for any statements she has made, considering we have
> freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom to incite hatred, spite, or
enmity toward others. It most especially does not permit that on the
basis of religious belief in Nova Roma.


CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Obviously my post was not noticed under the "off-topic thingy" thread,
so I'm repeating it here. The gist of the proposal, for people who
don't want to read further, is that postings about christian religion
and other off-topic matters should be marked "OT" in the subject line.

L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus sal.

there has been much talk on this list about freedom of speech in
relation to the liceity of posting about religions and religious
festivals, but too little about the appropriateness of speech to the
venue.
One doesn't go to a christian church to preach about Buddhism, one
doesn't go to a tribunal and stand up to talk about football results,
and one doesn't go to a pub and conduct a trial.

So frankly I don't understand why people think it's appropriate to
post commentaries about christian religion on the list of an
organization that's focussed on roman republican times.

Surely there are more appropriate venues for that?

Nobody's trying to curb freedom of speech here, just to direct it to
more appropriate venues.

The posts which are not appropriate for a particular mailing list are
usually called "off topic", and while some lists have stricter
policies than others on off-topic posts, usually it's a common
courtesy to mark them with "OT" in the subject line.

Of course the problem is not limited to this list: I've worn out my
finger hitting the "delete" key for all the copycat Christmas
greetings posts that infest the lists I'm subscribed to, so that's why
my tolerance level has sunk, as it probably has for a lot of our
co-citizens.

I can add to the original post that I realized the flame wars we're
having are probably partly caused by cultural differences between
America and Europe.
In my experience Europeans are a lot less sensitive about words, and
are not so easily offended by irony. So they are genuinely surprised
when an innocent comment, or something they wrote in jest is taken as
a personal offence by someone.

You native English speakers out there have a nice saying: "Sticks and
stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me".
I think it would do everyone a lot of good to remember this.

Are you going to prosecute everyone else who has done the very same thing?

-Annia Minucia Marcella


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

>
> Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@> writes:
> >>
> >> > She has to prepare her legal defense for what? Is she be prosecuted
> >> > for something?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
> >>
> >
> >
> > Answer the first question, please.
>
> I am not a child to be so addressed madam. She should prepare a legal
> defense because I am prosecuting her. Thus my one word answer was
> sufficient to answer both your questions, as the second question was
> dependent on the first. For the benefit of those who may have missed
> my posting of the specific law in question some few days ago, I refer
> to the Offenses against Piety section of the Lex Salicia Poenalis.
>
> > I would loathe to think that she
> > might be punished for any statements she has made, considering we have
> > freedom of speech.
>
> Freedom of speech does not include freedom to incite hatred, spite, or
> enmity toward others. It most especially does not permit that on the
> basis of religious belief in Nova Roma.
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Salvete omnes,

for ages I couldn't understand why Christians wanted at all costs to
post propaganda (bible quotes and such) on the main list of an
organization dedicated to the restoration of the religio romana.
It took me a ten-minute talk with my mother, who comes from a
christian background, for the truth of the matter to finally sink in.

Of course! Nowadays Christians are getting bored to death because
nobody persecutes them! What a dreary life it must be, being part of a
dominant religion. No chance to be martyrized, no fast-track to the
kingdom of heavens!

So of course in their desperate search for a bit of persecution where
else can they go than to a place where roman Pagans can be found? They
are obviously not getting enough persecution for their tastes, so they
have to make do and inflate what little they get.

But I guess you all know the joke: "Who's a sadist? - Someone who's
nice to a masochist".
So since I'm an evil Pagan I invite all my fellow Pagans to be very
nice to Christians on this list. After getting no response for a while
they might want to quit posting here and go try surer methods, like
going preaching to Mecca.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta

Salve!

hehe, good post. Hopefully, you won't be prosecuted for it. ;)

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "liviacases" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> for ages I couldn't understand why Christians wanted at all costs to
> post propaganda (bible quotes and such) on the main list of an
> organization dedicated to the restoration of the religio romana.
> It took me a ten-minute talk with my mother, who comes from a
> christian background, for the truth of the matter to finally sink in.
>
> Of course! Nowadays Christians are getting bored to death because
> nobody persecutes them! What a dreary life it must be, being part of a
> dominant religion. No chance to be martyrized, no fast-track to the
> kingdom of heavens!
>
> So of course in their desperate search for a bit of persecution where
> else can they go than to a place where roman Pagans can be found? They
> are obviously not getting enough persecution for their tastes, so they
> have to make do and inflate what little they get.
>
> But I guess you all know the joke: "Who's a sadist? - Someone who's
> nice to a masochist".
> So since I'm an evil Pagan I invite all my fellow Pagans to be very
> nice to Christians on this list. After getting no response for a while
> they might want to quit posting here and go try surer methods, like
> going preaching to Mecca.
>
> Valete,
> L. Livia Plauta
>

Avitus Scholasticæ optimæ suæ S·P·D

> > As I said before
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53738
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53744
> > my main purpose as a citizen in coming forward in this public

forum is in

> > relation to our
> > founding aims and objectives, which should be of everyone's

interest here.

> >
> > I have only started reading the first few messages in this forum

and it

> > becomes
> > immediately clear that there is some concern about the future of

Nova Roma and

> > its
> > credibility among its own present citizens, those who left us

and any future

> > ones that may
> > ideally want to join us. I contend that a substantial part of

the problem lies

> > in the extent
> > to which Nova Roma manages or fails to prove allegiance to its

own

> > foundational aims and
> > objectives.
> >
> > It appears very clearly in our Declaration
> > http://novaroma.org/nr/Declaration_%28Nova_Roma%29
> > that one of the main objectives and still an "active claim" of

Nova Roma is to

> > acquire
> > territory and to establish a physical settlement in some area of

land.

> >
> > That this is so becomes obvious also from the fact that Nova

Roma actually did

> > acquire
> > some land (10 acres, a tenth of the intended area)
> > http://novaroma.org/nr/Ager_Publicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
> > as a "symbol of Nova Roma's dedication to our future goal of a

larger world

> > capital" and
> > also as "confirmation of Nova Roma's existence as a viable

organization with

> > practical real
> > world objectives". The Ager Publicus page repeats that "Nova

Roma's goal is to

> > own at
> > least 108 contiguous acres of land".
> >
> > Well, the question is: what is happening in this regard? After

several years

> > of existence,
> > can we observe any progress in the direction of accomplishing

the foundational

> > aims and
> > objectives that can alone make of Nova Roma a credible

enterprise both for

> > inside
> > participants and outside observers? Or has Nova Roma become

stagnant in a

> > virtual world
> > that can only bring frustration to all those expecting real

tangible

> > achievements from it?
> >
> > ATS: This does indeed seem to be a great concern.

Obviously not so great a concern that it makes anyone reply with a
single word about it. Only Major and yourself wrote back about this.
How disappointing!

> > I discovered this fabulous Nova Roma, a society that wanted to
> > restore the
> > ancient Roman republic. What a wonderful dream!
> >
> > ATS: Indeed it is.

Indeed it is, and indeed it is obvious that everyone here wishes it
to remain, a wonderful dream.

> > Those of us who participate in the government are
> > living in a Roman republican government

Don't give me shit.

> > however virtual it may seem

What do you mean "seem"? It's nothing but virtual!

> > and even
> > if we are merely passive observers of that government, can and

do learn a

> > great deal about that very Roman institution.

Yes, but one can also do that at university or reading books
(something I'm starting to doubt whether many people do here).

> > Right now we are holding a
> > supplementary election, and you might want to visit the cista,

for example.

Certainly not. I don't like wasting my time in things that have no
effect in the real world, the only world there is!

> > You might also want to purchase Saturninus¹ beautiful official

Roman calendar,

> > which lists all of the dates with the Roman designations and a

host of other

> > information.

I bought that before. Very pretty, and so what?

> > Furthermore, the participants in this
> > huge project
> > called Nova Roma are quite young in average, as opposed to the

septuagenarians

> > that
> > mostly populate the Latin speaking world, and are full of energy

and

> > enthusiasm.
> >
> > ATS: Now, now, Avite optime mi, not all of us are

septuagenarians

That's precisely what I said.

> > nor
> > are all septuagenarians lacking in energy, etc. I know some

thirtyish folk

> > who have such problems, however...

Indeed. This is precisely what I'm witnessing here. It's making me
revise all my previous expectations. How disappointing again!

> > I will wear my toga with pride, be assured of that.
> >
> > ATS: An habes?

Of course I have one. I find your question a bit impertinent, and
you have asked me that before, as well!

> > Even other citizens have said that "Nova Roma is an

international Roman

> > community in
> > the modern world". It was indeed meant to be, and I still hope

it will be able

> > to become, a
> > "community"; but I'm not sure it is actually one yet, at least

not in my

> > preferred sense of
> > the word and the one I discover listed first by dictionaries (my

Collins):

> > "the people living
> > in one locality". Precisely such sense is, nevertheless, the one

clearly

> > intended in the first
> > declaration of Nova Roma, as quoted above:
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
> > and in the Collis Capitolinus introductory page
> > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/
> > where we find a proposal to found Nova Roma as a real nation

settled in some

> > real
> > territory, certainly not as the virtual creature which we have

so far indulged

> > to construe:
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
> >
> > "We acknowledge ancient Roman territory to be our cultural ...

homeland ... We

> > recognize
> > the modern political realities which make the restoration of

such ancient

> > lands to us
> > impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial claim to

an amount of

> > land at least
> > equal to ... 108 contiguous acres [1 acre = 4840 m2]. On this

land a world

> > capital for the
> > admistration of our culture will be founded in the form of a

Forum Romanum.

> > The exact
> > site for this New Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to

be

> > determined."
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum
> >
> > "In declaring ourselves to be a sovereign nation, we have taken

a bold step,

> > but hardly one
> > that is without precedent. The concept of "model nations"

or "micronations"

> > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/micronations.html
> > is one that has grown significantly in recent decades, and it is

in that

> > spirit that our
> > sovereignty is proclaimed."
> >
> > ATS: Though it happens that NR repudiated the term

micronation, as that

> > had acquired rather negative connotations.

Sure! Negative connotations for those who prefer virtual nations to
micronations! Very negative!

> > I don't know why Nova Roma started with the purchase of the

piece of

> > uninhabitable
> > desert it bought (10 acres of it [1 acre = 4840 m2]), or how

much it cost; but

> > there is
> > much better land available at any time.
> >
> > ATS: This land was a donation. Recently some have

suggested renting it

> > as pasture and/or a wind farm.

No further comment.

> > If you Google the mysterious "108 acres" figure (with the

quotes), you not

> > only come up
> > with rather expensive ($1,000,000) land in quite interesting

places in the US

> > http://www.forsalebuyyou.com/8884805893/8884805893.htm
> > but also with ten times cheaper ones ($100,000) in Europe

itself, in real

> > ancient Roman
> > land
> > http://www.lespac.com/search/detail.php?a=5782469
> >
> > Ten professional people could surely raise the $100,000 needed

to buy that

> > non-
> > desert, fertile and perfectly habitable, Mediterranean piece of

territory

> > without difficulty.
> > Couldn't they, if they really believed in this project?
> >
> > ATS: Possibly, if we had such people.

Obviously we haven't. Without them, this is all pointless though.

> > First of all, prospective settlers (Lat. colóní) would have to

be prepared to

> > live together.
> > Not everyone can live with anyone. There are only a few Latin

speakers I would

> > be happy
> > to live with at all.
> >
> > ATS: Well, most of us don¹t get to choose our neighbors...

Your point being? It doesn't really matter.

> > On the other hand, I'd be more than delighted to share my living

with

> > many of the Nova Romans I have met in person. I'm certain I'll

continue to

> > meet even more
> > equally amiable people (surely much less surly than your average

Latin

> > speaker)
> >
> > ATS: Now, I am not surly!

Who said you were?

> > Neither is Cordus or Astur, or Paulus

But they are Nova Romans. I was talking about your average Latin
speaker. Your average Latin speaker is not Nova Roman.

> > or
> > Stephanus Berard, or Jacobus Dobreff or Eduardus Casey, all of

whom I have

> > met!

I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. I'm sure none of those
are. I might have also used the wrong word for what I was trying to
say. Never mind.

> > Also, I don't actually
> > envisage the
> > foundation of *one* "world capital for the admistration of our

culture", but

> > rather the
> > formation of multiple non centralised settlements (Lat. colóniæ)

all linked up

> > by the Nova
> > Roman superstructure. We wouldn't all have to go to the same

place!

> >
> > ATS: Yes, and that is the issue. When you discussed this

earlier on

> > Latinitas, you mentioned moving into nearby houses/apartments as

an initial

> > stage.

True. I don't think people here are prepared for even that though,
to judge by the dense silence my message inspired.

> > ATS: We have an excellent potter who lives in Nova

Britannia, though she

> > is now in Italy tending to her ailing husband. We also have a
> > blacksmith/farrier/armorer/whatever in that province as well,

though I believe

> > she has been recovering from an accident.

Yes, loads of people, but none available to take the necessary step
into reality.

> > ATS: We also have excellent Roman cooks.

See above.

> > I know I am here talking about very serious business, no more

farting about

> > with virtual
> > consulships and century points; but for me either this NR stuff

is ultimately

> > about such
> > serious business, or it's not what I'm really looking for. I'm

not here to

> > play a tremendously
> > time consuming virtual role play game for its own sake. I just

need to know

> > whether there
> > is anyone here who can seriously consider what I'm proposing,

and what the

> > founders of
> > NR were in fact proposing themselves from the beginning.
> >
> > ATS: I think that you will find others of like sentiments

here, Avite

> > optime mi.

Obviously not, at least not such as are prepared to reply to my
message and say so.

> > This sort of thing is a fairly frequent topic of discussion here

Then it must be me they don't want to reply to on this occasion.

> > though it often centers around the cultus deorum and the

foundation of a

> > genuine temple for their worship...

Even if that were so, a temple must be part of a real worshiping
community, not something standing in the middle of a desert, let
alone in a virtual parallel universe.

> > which realistically is something that draws
> > many of our fellow citizens to Nova Roma, and which should be a

part of such

> > an enterprise.

I have no problem with people cultivating their respective (real or
imaginary) superstitions as long as they live me alone not to do so.

> > I do have all my hopes in Nova Roma now as the seedbed for the

community I am

> > looking for. Such a community is, as I have shown, in perfect

line with the

> > true and
> > foundational aims of Nova Roma, and I would expect the republic

as a whole to

> > start
> > working in that direction once and for all. In fact, I hereby

propose the

> > creation of a
> > "commission for the actualisation of the foundational aim of

Nova Roma" or a

> > "commission for the creation of real life Roman urban or rural

colonies" or a

> > "commission
> > for the transition from virtual to real", however you want to

call it. This

> > issue has finally to
> > be addressed as one of the priorities of the republic!
> >
> > ATS: And Avitus is right. However, not all such

communities may have to

> > be Latinized immediately, though at least some could and should

be.

By the look of it, we'll be having neither latinised nor unlatinised
communitites here.

> > First we
> > must start somewhere, then proceed.

Yes, but somewhere real, and the will to get out of the virtual RPG
is obviously not there.

> > Some of us got Latinized (more or less),
> > and some got more or less Romanized; eventually they should

combine, but it

> > may not be possible at first.

All dreams!

> > PS: Many citizens have already been latinised through my Sermo

Latinus courses

> > at the
> > Academia Thules an I will be offering a "Latin for farming"

course based on

> > Cato's "De Agri
> > Culturá" from 2008-2009 to all those interested in this project,

where of

> > course not only
> > the farming vocabulary, but also Roman farming techninques will

be learnt.

> >
> > ATS: What about Terentius? I thought you were going to

teach that next

> > year.

If I can.

> > PPS: Of course, for me to accept to live in a real Nova Roman

community, Nova

> > Roma
> > would have to formally subscribe the Universal Declaration of

Human rights and

> > enshrine
> > it in her consititution, something it has not yet done as far as

I'm aware,

> > but which seems
> > perfectly in line with the intentions of the founders (cf.

infra: "in accord

> > with the principles
> > acknowledged and shared by the world community"):
> >
> > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
> >
> > "The express purpose of our nation is to promote international

understanding

> > and
> > cooperation through the preservation of our common Classical

foundation, and

> > to breathe
> > new life and honor into all Western Civilization ... We, the

Citizens and

> > Senate of New
> > Rome hereby formally renounce, eternally and without exception,

the use of

> > force,
> > rebellion, coercion, or intimidation in the pursuit of our

international

> > status and claims.
> > We strive to exist as a lawful, peaceful and benign nation, in

accord with the

> > principles
> > acknowledged and shared by the world community."
> >
> > There can be little doubt that, although no principles are

absolutely and

> > perfectly
> > universal, the widest "acknowledged and shared" principles of

the world

> > community are
> > those of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Nova Roma

must subscribe

> > them
> > immediately.
> >
> > ATS: You may not be aware, Avite optime mi, that some among

us want to

> > get rid of the constitution altogether...

Well, I'm no anarchist.

Cura ut valeas optime!

Salve Valeri Callide tribune plebis,

I understand your concerns, but I'm afraid you will have to grow a
thicker skin.
It wouldn't be honourable of you to leave Nova Roma now that you got
yourself elected as tribunus plebis, and when you are doing such
important work as wikimaster.

Yes, it would be nice if there weren't so many petty squabbles, it
would be nice it what goes on on this list didn't give such a bad
impression to new members, but our duty as elected magistrates is to
see what we can do for Nova Roma, not join the chorus of "I will leave
if it goes on like this".

Optime vale,
L. Livia Plauta
Tribuna plebis

----- Original Message -----
From: "os390account" <Velaki@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: mercoledì 26 dicembre 2007 16.24
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma is burning...


> Salvete,
>
> I am away for a few days, and I return to a religious civil war.
>
> I could go traipsing about the tabularium, and possibly find some
> precedent to find way to restore a modicum of order here, and
> reference "good of the republic," the "harmony of the citizenry,"
and
> perhaps the virtues and dignity expected of Nova Romans; however, I
> think I'm going to see if this all dies down of its own accord.
>
> If it doesn't, I will leave.
>
> Does anyone else feel as if this is all collapsing under the weight
of
> petty squabbles? Are others thinking of leaving? Are new members
> being dissuaded from continuing?
>
> I would rather stay, and do what I set out to do when I joined,
which
> is to learn about Roman culture, meet new and interesting people,
and
> explore the ancient world in this modern context.
>
> Thoughts?
> Valete,
> Q. Valerius Callidus

Avitus Romanis optimis suís S·P·D

This is just to bid farewell to all in this forum. My visit to it
for the last 10 days has been more than disappointing, and I think I
would be wasting my time if I remained here. I will now withdraw
back to my life as a private individual.

It is likely that I will even abandon Nova Roma altogether in the
next few days (my New Year's resolution?) as I don't think this
virtual construct is going to prove, after all, capable of
delivering the real fruits I believed were enshrined in its very own
declaration of aims and objectives.

Curate ut valeatis omnes!

PS:

> > Post multos civitatis annos, decrevi tandem Forum petere, quod

hactenus

> > vitaveram
> > propter magnam frequentiam penuriamque temporis meam. Salvete

omnes!

> >
> > ATS: Quid? QVID?!!!!! Quem in foró nostró praecipuó

videó? Speró

> > salútem tuam bonam esse, Avíte optime mí. Fortissimus es; quí

húc inermis

> > intrat in periculó mox erit. Húc gladiós píla scúta omnia tália

portáre

> > debémus. Hostés et inter arborés et sub lapidibus latent;

adsunt lupí móre

> > ovium vestítí. Est leónum latibulum. Praeterea, nuper

frequentia epistolárum

> > maxima fuit... plús quam centum cotidié adveniunt.

Maluerim ne tam veré laterent saltemque me oppugnarent. Leones enim
sunt fortasse hostesque, sed taciti omnes!

Salve,

I do not consider this virtual, nor a RPG. Just because we use the
internet to educate, communicate, and promote NR, doesn't make us
virtual. We are real people. I have a real lararium in my kitchen,
with a real offering plate to the Gods and the Lares. I really
celebrate the roman holidays. I plan real meetings with real people in
my province.

And I really don't appreciate your sour grapes attitude just because
your post didn't get as may repsonses as you wanted. QQ more.

And now I will take my leave of this list for a while to enjoy a real
RPG, World of Warcraft.

Vale,

Annia Minucia

L. Livia Plauta A. Gratio Avito S.P.D.

I join your frustration. I start to suspect you didn't get the
response I tried to send you some days ago off-list. I sent it to the
address you use to post to this mailing list. if you didn't get it let
me know and I will send it again.

I know for sure other people share your wish to have a lot more
reality and less virtuality, but while you might have more time on
your hands during the holidays, for other people it may mean they're
away from computers.
Also others, like me, might feel less confident than you are about
posting all their hopes and dreams on this list, to be dissected,
chewed on, and spit out, or just blatantly ignored, by all the
malevolent posters around here.

Optime vale.

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Gratius Avitus" <aggfvavitus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: giovedì 27 dicembre 2007 1.15
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Novæ Romæ territorio &c.


>Thanks for your enthusiastic response. I do think that is (was?) the
>only future a real Nova Roma could have (have had?), but the will is
>obviously not there. Very sad indeed. We'll have to wait for better
>times.

Salve Valeri Callide tribune plebis,

I understand your concerns, but I'm afraid you will have to grow a
thicker skin.
It wouldn't be honourable of you to leave Nova Roma now that you got
yourself elected as tribunus plebis, and when you are doing such
important work as wikimaster.

Yes, it would be nice if there weren't so many petty squabbles, it
would be nice it what goes on on this list didn't give such a bad
impression to new members, but our duty as elected magistrates is to
see what we can do for Nova Roma, not join the chorus of "I will leave
if it goes on like this".

Optime vale,
L. Livia Plauta
Tribuna plebis

----- Original Message -----
From: "os390account" <Velaki@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: mercoledì 26 dicembre 2007 16.24
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roma is burning...


> Salvete,
>
> I am away for a few days, and I return to a religious civil war.
>
> I could go traipsing about the tabularium, and possibly find some
> precedent to find way to restore a modicum of order here, and
> reference "good of the republic," the "harmony of the citizenry,"
and
> perhaps the virtues and dignity expected of Nova Romans; however, I
> think I'm going to see if this all dies down of its own accord.
>
> If it doesn't, I will leave.
>
> Does anyone else feel as if this is all collapsing under the weight
of
> petty squabbles? Are others thinking of leaving? Are new members
> being dissuaded from continuing?
>
> I would rather stay, and do what I set out to do when I joined,
which
> is to learn about Roman culture, meet new and interesting people,
and
> explore the ancient world in this modern context.
>
> Thoughts?
> Valete,
> Q. Valerius Callidus
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date:
26/12/07 17.26
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date: 26/12/07 17.26

Salvete;
well, it seems my discussion of Roman history and what was done in
the Republic might get me prosecuted. I mentioned Jews, Isis
worshippers and Chaldeans and said we could apply it now. The
abjuring supersitio was also historical and applied to Jews and Isis
worshippers. I really don't see the point.
Maior



It's not hatred at all.

>
> I am not a child to be so addressed madam. She should prepare a

legal

> defense because I am prosecuting her. Thus my one word answer

was

> sufficient to answer both your questions, as the second question

was

> dependent on the first. For the benefit of those who may have

missed

> my posting of the specific law in question some few days ago, I

refer

> to the Offenses against Piety section of the Lex Salicia Poenalis.
>
> > I would loathe to think that she
> > might be punished for any statements she has made, considering

we have

> > freedom of speech.
>
> Freedom of speech does not include freedom to incite hatred,

spite, or

> enmity toward others. It most especially does not permit that on

the

> basis of religious belief in Nova Roma.
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Salve,

Some would say that they feel the need to be persecuted or at least make it seem like they are. Is that assumption going too far? Maybe. Is it possible? Absolutely. But one could never know the true agenda of others unless you are in league with them. So it would be safe, and my hope, to say that they do not want to be persecuted. Who would? Obviously no citizen would like that experience. I personally have never felt the wrath of persecution and hope to never experience such a thing but I'm sure it will happen in the future if NR follows through with its aim. The re-establishment of Roman culture, religiously and politically. You have to try and understand the sentiment of some here and realize that we (followers of the Religio) don't have grand temples built across the world to our Gods. It would definitely be difficult and a long haul to push for global recognition but a struggle well worth it. This is the only 'real' place we have to celebrate our religion. Is it an excuse for some of the things posted here? For some more than others yes. Are we asking for pity? I'm not. But most of us don't want to read passages from the Bible because we have read them growing up or it was forced on others and it is the exact reason why many of us were led here. To get away from Christian teachings and look for something more. Yes you can always delete without reading Christian themed threads we got that point across long ago. But now hear us out and try to realize that it is not entirely fair. Respect is a two way street with many lanes.

To call for the prosecution of another citizen is, I think, going a bit over the top. What was posted about other religions being silenced during the reign of Emperor Tiberius was written, in my sense, as a historical and political reference. I doubt that is what that citizen wants such a action to be taken. I certainly wouldn't. If our aim here is to reproduce the culture of Ancient Rome, religiously and politically, then that statement is in effect correct. Would the Senate pass such a law? Most likely not being there are Christian senators. I think the post was taken way out of context. Some enjoy this kind of back and forth attack,unfortunately, and it all needs to end if we hope for another 10 years, hopefully more, of Nova Roma.

To the new citizens: congratulations. I hope this doesn't drive you away and think twice about your decision of becoming a citizen. We need all the new citizens we can get because unfortunately, citizens want to prosecute others, want their heads on a golden platter, which in turn might see the release of some great citizens. I sincerely hope it doesn't go that far.

And to Triarius: Where is this child with two Roman warships? I would certainly like to meet him. He would be a great ally in my pending naval battle with Complutensis. Or will he be my enemy.(Hmmm. I must speak with my generals.) The courier has not returned with an answer :-|

:-)
Happy Holidays!!!
Lucius Iulius Regulus
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "liviacases" <cases@...>

Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:40:29
To:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Religion and Humor...


Salvete omnes,

for ages I couldn't understand why Christians wanted at all costs to
post propaganda (bible quotes and such) on the main list of an
organization dedicated to the restoration of the religio romana.
It took me a ten-minute talk with my mother, who comes from a
christian background, for the truth of the matter to finally sink in.

Of course! Nowadays Christians are getting bored to death because
nobody persecutes them! What a dreary life it must be, being part of a
dominant religion. No chance to be martyrized, no fast-track to the
kingdom of heavens!

So of course in their desperate search for a bit of persecution where
else can they go than to a place where roman Pagans can be found? They
are obviously not getting enough persecution for their tastes, so they
have to make do and inflate what little they get.

But I guess you all know the joke: "Who's a sadist? - Someone who's
nice to a masochist".
So since I'm an evil Pagan I invite all my fellow Pagans to be very
nice to Christians on this list. After getting no response for a while
they might want to quit posting here and go try surer methods, like
going preaching to Mecca.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta

Agricola Geniali sal.

Many thanks to you, Sir! I have added this to the "Stub" template.
This is one of a number of templates that I am "globalizing". This
means that on Italian pages it appears in Italian, on German pages it
appears in German and so on. This is automatic. I hope that this sort
of thing makes it easier for speakers of languages other than English
to contribute to our website.

Optime vale in pace deorum!



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Arminius Genialis"
<tagenialis@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Agricola
>
> "Este artigo é um esboço. Você poderia ajudar aumentando-o?"
>
> Vale bene
>
> TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
> Quaestor Electus
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae
> Interpres Linguae Lusitanicae
> Scriba Censoris
> Scriba Praetoris
> tagenialis@...
>
>
>
> > -----Mensagem original-----
> > De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de M. Lucretius Agricola
> > Enviada em: quarta-feira, 26 de dezembro de 2007 03:57
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] PORTUGUÊS translation
> >
> > Agricola Omnibus sal.
> >
> > Can anyone translate the following into Portuguese?
> >
> >
> >
> > "This article is a 'stub'. Can you help by expanding it?"
> >
> >
> >
> > This is for the "Stub article" template for our wiki.
> >
> > Ago vobis multas gratias et optime valete!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release
> > Date: 13/12/2007 09:15
> >
> >
>
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1183 - Release Date:

13/12/2007

> 09:15
>

In a message dated 12/26/2007 1:42:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
a_sempronius_regulus@... writes:

Salvete,

The exclusivist attitude displayed betrays the pagan
attitude toward things religious and reflects the
Judeo-Islamic more. Never heard of a jihadist
fundamentalist pagan extremist before.

Salvete,

Apparently we have now. Maybe we should proscribe a Christian just to keep
our pagan hand in?

Calm down, Modianus. I was jesting.

Ah the price we pay for freedom of speech.

Valete

Fabius



**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agricola Calvo sal.

Thank you for writing "You Arian dog!"... I'm still laughing as I
write. I imagine the voice of the Sea Captain from the Simpsons... LOL!

Optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Calvus" <bryon@...> wrote:
>

>
> EXAMPLE:
>
> Christian1: Hey idiot, don't you realize that Jesus is of the same
> substance as God, but not God?
> Christian2: You Arian dog! Go peddle your heresy elsewhere!

Agricola Avito S.P.D.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Gratius Avitus"
<aggfvavitus@...> wrote:

>
> Avitus Scholasticæ optimæ suæ S·P·D
>

[major excision]

>
> Even if that were so, a temple must be part of a real worshiping
> community, not something standing in the middle of a desert, let
> alone in a virtual parallel universe.
>

[another large excision]

A very important point, with which I could not agree more, although in
the meantime things virtual probably do no harm and may serve as a
focal point for collecting interested parties.

As for the rest, your suggestion is so new, so large and so important
that it requires a serious reply. Don't think that it wasn't noticed,
it is just a lot to think about. Your seed may well bear fruit, but
the time to germination may be long.

optime vale!

> Scholastica Avito optimo suo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Avitus Scholasticæ optimæ suæ S·P·D
>
>>> > > As I said before
>>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53738
>>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53744
>>> > > my main purpose as a citizen in coming forward in this public
> forum is in
>>> > > relation to our
>>> > > founding aims and objectives, which should be of everyone's
> interest here.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have only started reading the first few messages in this forum
> and it
>>> > > becomes
>>> > > immediately clear that there is some concern about the future of
> Nova Roma and
>>> > > its
>>> > > credibility among its own present citizens, those who left us
> and any future
>>> > > ones that may
>>> > > ideally want to join us. I contend that a substantial part of
> the problem lies
>>> > > in the extent
>>> > > to which Nova Roma manages or fails to prove allegiance to its
> own
>>> > > foundational aims and
>>> > > objectives.
>>> > >
>>> > > It appears very clearly in our Declaration
>>> > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Declaration_%28Nova_Roma%29
>>> > > that one of the main objectives and still an "active claim" of
> Nova Roma is to
>>> > > acquire
>>> > > territory and to establish a physical settlement in some area of
> land.
>>> > >
>>> > > That this is so becomes obvious also from the fact that Nova
> Roma actually did
>>> > > acquire
>>> > > some land (10 acres, a tenth of the intended area)
>>> > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Ager_Publicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
>>> > > as a "symbol of Nova Roma's dedication to our future goal of a
> larger world
>>> > > capital" and
>>> > > also as "confirmation of Nova Roma's existence as a viable
> organization with
>>> > > practical real
>>> > > world objectives". The Ager Publicus page repeats that "Nova
> Roma's goal is to
>>> > > own at
>>> > > least 108 contiguous acres of land".
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, the question is: what is happening in this regard? After
> several years
>>> > > of existence,
>>> > > can we observe any progress in the direction of accomplishing
> the foundational
>>> > > aims and
>>> > > objectives that can alone make of Nova Roma a credible
> enterprise both for
>>> > > inside
>>> > > participants and outside observers? Or has Nova Roma become
> stagnant in a
>>> > > virtual world
>>> > > that can only bring frustration to all those expecting real
> tangible
>>> > > achievements from it?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: This does indeed seem to be a great concern.
>
> Obviously not so great a concern that it makes anyone reply with a
> single word about it. Only Major and yourself wrote back about this.
> How disappointing!
>
> ATS2: Yes, it is, but many of our members are away on vacation, and our
> sole consul is offline. The field is left to the grex bimorum.
>
>>> > > I discovered this fabulous Nova Roma, a society that wanted to
>>> > > restore the
>>> > > ancient Roman republic. What a wonderful dream!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Indeed it is.
>
> Indeed it is, and indeed it is obvious that everyone here wishes it
> to remain, a wonderful dream.
>
> ATS2: Now, Avite, that is not the case. People are away, or still busy
> with the holidays.
>
>>> > > Those of us who participate in the government are
>>> > > living in a Roman republican government
>
> Don't give me shit.
>
>>> > > however virtual it may seem
>
> What do you mean "seem"? It's nothing but virtual!
>
>>> > > and even
>>> > > if we are merely passive observers of that government, can and
> do learn a
>>> > > great deal about that very Roman institution.
>
> Yes, but one can also do that at university or reading books
> (something I'm starting to doubt whether many people do here).
>
> ATS2: I share your doubts on that. However, I did read them, but learnt
> far more by being here in NR and participating in our government.
>
>>> > > Right now we are holding a
>>> > > supplementary election, and you might want to visit the cista,
> for example.
>
> Certainly not. I don't like wasting my time in things that have no
> effect in the real world, the only world there is!
>
>>> > > You might also want to purchase Saturninus¹ beautiful official
> Roman calendar,
>>> > > which lists all of the dates with the Roman designations and a
> host of other
>>> > > information.
>
> I bought that before. Very pretty, and so what?
>
> ATS2: And it¹s also very Roman. Very authentic.
>
>>> > > Furthermore, the participants in this
>>> > > huge project
>>> > > called Nova Roma are quite young in average, as opposed to the
> septuagenarians
>>> > > that
>>> > > mostly populate the Latin speaking world, and are full of energy
> and
>>> > > enthusiasm.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Now, now, Avite optime mi, not all of us are
> septuagenarians
>
> That's precisely what I said.
>
>>> > > nor
>>> > > are all septuagenarians lacking in energy, etc. I know some
> thirtyish folk
>>> > > who have such problems, however...
>
> Indeed. This is precisely what I'm witnessing here. It's making me
> revise all my previous expectations. How disappointing again!
>
> ATS2: Yes, but many of the younger people are away from school, and
> others are on vacation. Give it a chance, please.
>
>>> > > I will wear my toga with pride, be assured of that.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: An habes?
>
> Of course I have one. I find your question a bit impertinent, and
> you have asked me that before, as well!
>
> ATS2: oblivisci.
>
>>> > > Even other citizens have said that "Nova Roma is an
> international Roman
>>> > > community in
>>> > > the modern world". It was indeed meant to be, and I still hope
> it will be able
>>> > > to become, a
>>> > > "community"; but I'm not sure it is actually one yet, at least
> not in my
>>> > > preferred sense of
>>> > > the word and the one I discover listed first by dictionaries (my
> Collins):
>>> > > "the people living
>>> > > in one locality". Precisely such sense is, nevertheless, the one
> clearly
>>> > > intended in the first
>>> > > declaration of Nova Roma, as quoted above:
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
>>> > > and in the Collis Capitolinus introductory page
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/
>>> > > where we find a proposal to found Nova Roma as a real nation
> settled in some
>>> > > real
>>> > > territory, certainly not as the virtual creature which we have
> so far indulged
>>> > > to construe:
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
>>> > >
>>> > > "We acknowledge ancient Roman territory to be our cultural ...
> homeland ... We
>>> > > recognize
>>> > > the modern political realities which make the restoration of
> such ancient
>>> > > lands to us
>>> > > impossible. Therefore we limit our active territorial claim to
> an amount of
>>> > > land at least
>>> > > equal to ... 108 contiguous acres [1 acre = 4840 m2]. On this
> land a world
>>> > > capital for the
>>> > > admistration of our culture will be founded in the form of a
> Forum Romanum.
>>> > > The exact
>>> > > site for this New Roman governmental and spiritual capital is to
> be
>>> > > determined."
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum
>>> > >
>>> > > "In declaring ourselves to be a sovereign nation, we have taken
> a bold step,
>>> > > but hardly one
>>> > > that is without precedent. The concept of "model nations"
> or "micronations"
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/micronations.html
>>> > > is one that has grown significantly in recent decades, and it is
> in that
>>> > > spirit that our
>>> > > sovereignty is proclaimed."
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Though it happens that NR repudiated the term
> micronation, as that
>>> > > had acquired rather negative connotations.
>
> Sure! Negative connotations for those who prefer virtual nations to
> micronations! Very negative!
>
>>> > > I don't know why Nova Roma started with the purchase of the
> piece of
>>> > > uninhabitable
>>> > > desert it bought (10 acres of it [1 acre = 4840 m2]), or how
> much it cost; but
>>> > > there is
>>> > > much better land available at any time.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: This land was a donation. Recently some have
> suggested renting it
>>> > > as pasture and/or a wind farm.
>
> No further comment.
>
>>> > > If you Google the mysterious "108 acres" figure (with the
> quotes), you not
>>> > > only come up
>>> > > with rather expensive ($1,000,000) land in quite interesting
> places in the US
>>> > > http://www.forsalebuyyou.com/8884805893/8884805893.htm
>>> > > but also with ten times cheaper ones ($100,000) in Europe
> itself, in real
>>> > > ancient Roman
>>> > > land
>>> > > http://www.lespac.com/search/detail.php?a=5782469
>>> > >
>>> > > Ten professional people could surely raise the $100,000 needed
> to buy that
>>> > > non-
>>> > > desert, fertile and perfectly habitable, Mediterranean piece of
> territory
>>> > > without difficulty.
>>> > > Couldn't they, if they really believed in this project?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Possibly, if we had such people.
>
> Obviously we haven't. Without them, this is all pointless though.
>
> ATS2: I think we do have at least some, but, again, this is a vacation
> period, not to mention one which has been marred by serious and useless
> squabbling over religion. Grex bimorum tacere non vult.
>
>>> > > First of all, prospective settlers (Lat. colóní) would have to
> be prepared to
>>> > > live together.
>>> > > Not everyone can live with anyone. There are only a few Latin
> speakers I would
>>> > > be happy
>>> > > to live with at all.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Well, most of us don¹t get to choose our neighbors...
>
> Your point being? It doesn't really matter.
>
> ATS2: Well, if we want to get Latin speakers together, we may have to
> make some concessions on with whom we might live.
>
>>> > > On the other hand, I'd be more than delighted to share my living
> with
>>> > > many of the Nova Romans I have met in person. I'm certain I'll
> continue to
>>> > > meet even more
>>> > > equally amiable people (surely much less surly than your average
> Latin
>>> > > speaker)
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Now, I am not surly!
>
> Who said you were?
>
> ATS2: I can think of some who might think that...and you have not met me
> to know otherwise.
>
>>> > > Neither is Cordus or Astur, or Paulus
>
> But they are Nova Romans. I was talking about your average Latin
> speaker. Your average Latin speaker is not Nova Roman.
>
> ATS2: No, but we are getting more of them.
>
>>> > > or
>>> > > Stephanus Berard, or Jacobus Dobreff or Eduardus Casey, all of
> whom I have
>>> > > met!
>
> I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. I'm sure none of those
> are. I might have also used the wrong word for what I was trying to
> say. Never mind.
>
> ATS2: Indeed none of them is. Though I have little opportunity to visit
> the GLL, it seems the people there are not surly, either.
>
>>> > > Also, I don't actually
>>> > > envisage the
>>> > > foundation of *one* "world capital for the admistration of our
> culture", but
>>> > > rather the
>>> > > formation of multiple non centralised settlements (Lat. colóniæ)
> all linked up
>>> > > by the Nova
>>> > > Roman superstructure. We wouldn't all have to go to the same
> place!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Yes, and that is the issue. When you discussed this
> earlier on
>>> > > Latinitas, you mentioned moving into nearby houses/apartments as
> an initial
>>> > > stage.
>
> True. I don't think people here are prepared for even that though,
> to judge by the dense silence my message inspired.
>
> ATS2: Now, Avite, other factors are involved.
>
>>> > > ATS: We have an excellent potter who lives in Nova
> Britannia, though she
>>> > > is now in Italy tending to her ailing husband. We also have a
>>> > > blacksmith/farrier/armorer/whatever in that province as well,
> though I believe
>>> > > she has been recovering from an accident.
>
> Yes, loads of people, but none available to take the necessary step
> into reality.
>
> ATS2: Maybe they are...
>
>>> > > ATS: We also have excellent Roman cooks.
>
> See above.
>
>>> > > I know I am here talking about very serious business, no more
> farting about
>>> > > with virtual
>>> > > consulships and century points; but for me either this NR stuff
> is ultimately
>>> > > about such
>>> > > serious business, or it's not what I'm really looking for. I'm
> not here to
>>> > > play a tremendously
>>> > > time consuming virtual role play game for its own sake. I just
> need to know
>>> > > whether there
>>> > > is anyone here who can seriously consider what I'm proposing,
> and what the
>>> > > founders of
>>> > > NR were in fact proposing themselves from the beginning.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: I think that you will find others of like sentiments
> here, Avite
>>> > > optime mi.
>
> Obviously not, at least not such as are prepared to reply to my
> message and say so.
>
> ATS2: I see that others have replied to your latest series of messages,
> which I hope will reach you though you have unsubscribed.
>
>>> > > This sort of thing is a fairly frequent topic of discussion here
>
> Then it must be me they don't want to reply to on this occasion.
>
> ATS2: Yes, it¹s called vacation, amid Christian-bashing.
>
>>> > > though it often centers around the cultus deorum and the
> foundation of a
>>> > > genuine temple for their worship...
>
> Even if that were so, a temple must be part of a real worshiping
> community, not something standing in the middle of a desert, let
> alone in a virtual parallel universe.
>
>>> > > which realistically is something that draws
>>> > > many of our fellow citizens to Nova Roma, and which should be a
> part of such
>>> > > an enterprise.
>
> I have no problem with people cultivating their respective (real or
> imaginary) superstitions as long as they live me alone not to do so.
>
> ATS2: Some of us are tolerant.
>
>>> > > I do have all my hopes in Nova Roma now as the seedbed for the
> community I am
>>> > > looking for. Such a community is, as I have shown, in perfect
> line with the
>>> > > true and
>>> > > foundational aims of Nova Roma, and I would expect the republic
> as a whole to
>>> > > start
>>> > > working in that direction once and for all. In fact, I hereby
> propose the
>>> > > creation of a
>>> > > "commission for the actualisation of the foundational aim of
> Nova Roma" or a
>>> > > "commission for the creation of real life Roman urban or rural
> colonies" or a
>>> > > "commission
>>> > > for the transition from virtual to real", however you want to
> call it. This
>>> > > issue has finally to
>>> > > be addressed as one of the priorities of the republic!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: And Avitus is right. However, not all such
> communities may have to
>>> > > be Latinized immediately, though at least some could and should
> be.
>
> By the look of it, we'll be having neither latinised nor unlatinised
> communitites here.
>
> ATS2: I think we will, though maybe not this week.
>
>>> > > First we
>>> > > must start somewhere, then proceed.
>
> Yes, but somewhere real, and the will to get out of the virtual RPG
> is obviously not there.
>
> ATS2: I think it is. If you had stuck around and kept prodding, someone
> might take the first step. Realistically, only those between school and their
> first employment are truly free to move almost immediately; others would have
> to follow when possible.
>
>>> > > Some of us got Latinized (more or less),
>>> > > and some got more or less Romanized; eventually they should
> combine, but it
>>> > > may not be possible at first.
>
> All dreams!
>
> ATS2: Beautiful dreams, and not impossible ones. MLK had a dream, too,
> much of which has come to fruition (there certainly have been huge chances on
> that matter since I was a child).
>
>>> > > PS: Many citizens have already been latinised through my Sermo
> Latinus courses
>>> > > at the
>>> > > Academia Thules an I will be offering a "Latin for farming"
> course based on
>>> > > Cato's "De Agri
>>> > > Culturá" from 2008-2009 to all those interested in this project,
> where of
>>> > > course not only
>>> > > the farming vocabulary, but also Roman farming techninques will
> be learnt.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: What about Terentius? I thought you were going to
> teach that next
>>> > > year.
>
> If I can.
>
> ATS2: I hope you can. Perhaps Cato could wait.
>
>>> > > PPS: Of course, for me to accept to live in a real Nova Roman
> community, Nova
>>> > > Roma
>>> > > would have to formally subscribe the Universal Declaration of
> Human rights and
>>> > > enshrine
>>> > > it in her consititution, something it has not yet done as far as
> I'm aware,
>>> > > but which seems
>>> > > perfectly in line with the intentions of the founders (cf.
> infra: "in accord
>>> > > with the principles
>>> > > acknowledged and shared by the world community"):
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/declaration_novaroma.html
>>> > >
>>> > > "The express purpose of our nation is to promote international
> understanding
>>> > > and
>>> > > cooperation through the preservation of our common Classical
> foundation, and
>>> > > to breathe
>>> > > new life and honor into all Western Civilization ... We, the
> Citizens and
>>> > > Senate of New
>>> > > Rome hereby formally renounce, eternally and without exception,
> the use of
>>> > > force,
>>> > > rebellion, coercion, or intimidation in the pursuit of our
> international
>>> > > status and claims.
>>> > > We strive to exist as a lawful, peaceful and benign nation, in
> accord with the
>>> > > principles
>>> > > acknowledged and shared by the world community."
>>> > >
>>> > > There can be little doubt that, although no principles are
> absolutely and
>>> > > perfectly
>>> > > universal, the widest "acknowledged and shared" principles of
> the world
>>> > > community are
>>> > > those of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Nova Roma
> must subscribe
>>> > > them
>>> > > immediately.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: You may not be aware, Avite optime mi, that some among
> us want to
>>> > > get rid of the constitution altogether...
>
> Well, I'm no anarchist.
>
> ATS2: Good. Some here seem to be on that path, though.
>
> Cura ut valeas optime!
>
> Et tu, et vos omnes bonae voluntatis!
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53747;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnes SPD

Salvete.

I will be as brief as I possibly can.

The idea that everyone should run off to other little Lists defeats
the purpose of this, the Forum of the Respublica. Perhaps it would
make more sense if we pictured this place less as a "message board"
and more as a living, breathing space through which we walk, catching
bits and pieces of conversations; some we join, others we pass by.
Every now and then you come across a notice, something about a
festival held by one cult or another; you see recipes tacked up on a
column, hear political gossip, consider a discussion of naval and
military actions, hear the announcements of magisterial edicts, and
watch the great public calendar being adjusted as the days run.

It is an open space, a free space, a real space with real people,
where anyone can jump up onto a box and start any conversation they
want. Anyone. About anything. This is the Forum I envision when I
write.

I certainly never intended to offend anyone. Over the course of a
couple of years' work on the calendar, I posted literally hundreds of
religious observances of every kind, from ancient Scandinavia and
Egypt to modern Japan, and no-one said a word. To me, posting
something about the observance of a Christian holiday is the same,
with the small added fact that I happen to celebrate these days
personally. And now we have at least one citizen who thinks it would
be a fine idea to throw out of the Respublica anyone - including,
obviously, me - who is a Christian "for a month" or whatever. What a
nasty piece of work. Marca Hortensia Maior, I will never forget that
you suggested this.

Valete,

Cato

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Quinto Fabio Maximo salutem dicit

"Calm down, Modianus. I was jesting."

What on Earth are you talking about? Calm down? Calm down for what?
Did I miss something?

Caeso Buteo

On Dec 26, 2007 9:15 PM, <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/26/2007 1:42:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> a_sempronius_regulus@... writes:
>
> Salvete,
>
>
> The exclusivist attitude displayed betrays the pagan
> attitude toward things religious and reflects the
> Judeo-Islamic more. Never heard of a jihadist
> fundamentalist pagan extremist before.
>
> Salvete,
>
> Apparently we have now. Maybe we should proscribe a Christian just to keep
> our pagan hand in?
>
> Calm down, Modianus. I was jesting.
>
> Ah the price we pay for freedom of speech.
>
> Valete
>
> Fabius

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

Libera nos a malo...

I'm no expert in Latin, that is your profession and not mine.
However, I know the "Pater noster" (Our Father) prayer, and as I
recall the last line is "sed libera nos a malo," or "but deliver us
from evil." Your exclusion of the "sed" and capitalization of the
Libera adds a different context and meaning to this statement, and as
a response to "may the gods preseve (should probably be preserve) Rome
and all Romans!" is disturbing to me. I'm not sure "Deliver us from
evil..." is an appropriate response to a plea for the gods to preserve
Rome and all Romans!

I understand that Marca Hortensia Maior has said some pretty asinine
comments recently. Of which I am not in agreement, however, that does
not mean we need delivered from the gods simply because Marca
Hortensia cannot exercise discretion.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 26, 2007 1:46 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

> > may the gods preseve Rome and all Romans!
> >
> > ATS: Libera nos a malo...