Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.

Salve Flavius Aquila.

If you do not understand the law regarding the use of an intercessio,
then you need all the advice you can get. Let me put it this way: if
you pronounce an intercessio in this case it will be, quite simply,
ignored, since you have no legal standing upon which to pronounce one.
This has been appropriately shown by several citizens already.
Perhaps you should take a look at the law, as this is a crucial
misunderstanding for one who is a tribune. Violating the law is not a
particularly Roman ideal.

Nor is it your, or anyone else's, decision as to the merits of the
charges. That is why we have courts of law.

Vale,

Cato

know that you cann--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius
Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Cato,
>
> I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as

Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
Republic and

> will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator

Hortensia Maior.

>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 27. Dezember 2007, 18:54:51 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "My thanks to our Tribune of the Plebs, T. Flavius Aquila for his
> efforts to end this. He does act in the manner of the Republic."
>
> Attempting - even inadvertently - to violate the restrictions on his
> constitutional powers is not exactly something which should be
> praised, Maior. Rather you might urge him to study more carefully
> what he can and cannot do under the law in order to serve the
> Respublica more effectively.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo

gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Titus Flavius Aquila C.Popilli Laenas salutem plurimam dicit

Salve Laenas,

thank you for your advise, which is very valuable for me as you are a former Tribune.

But I do have taken my decision, I will state intercessio and I will stop this farce.

This is not about one single citizen against another single citizen, everybody knows that.

This whole trial will start anger, offend feelings and will turn further Nova Roma citizens
- which are followers of the Religio Romana - away from Nova Roma, it endangers Nova Roma.

That´s why I will stop it !

Optime Vale
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Nova Roma

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:28:31 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio

C. Popillius Laenas T. Flavio Aquilo SPD.

Salve Tribune,

With respect, I offer my experience as a past Tribune and as the
Praetor who managed Nova Roma's first lawsuit.

In Nova Roma, a Tribune's right of intercessio is not absolute. It
is limited by the Constitution and further refined by the Lex Didia
Gemina de potestate tribunicia, passed by my coleague during our
Tribunate.

The following is the relevant quote:

>>1. When a Tribunus Plebis issues an intercessio, it must include

the following elements in a reasoned exposition in which the Tribunus
shall note whether the auxilium was requested or ex-officio:

a. The official name(s) of the citizen(s) who has requested the
Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s) of
the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium ex
officio.

b. The official name and office of the magistrate(s) against whose
act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed.

c. The article(s) of the Constitution or the leges violated by the
magistrate's act(s).

2. If the intercessio of a Tribunus Plebis does not include these
three elements, the intercessio shall be invalid.<<

The full text of the law is here:

http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Didia_Gemina_ de_potestate_ tribunicia_ %
28Nova_Roma% 29

Since this is a matter between two private cives, and no law or
spirit of law is being violated, intercessio would not be valid. In
fact, the right of Gn. Equitius Marinus to bring suit is
speciffiaclly covered by our laws here:

Lex Salicia iudiciaria
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_iudiciar ia_%28Nova_ Roma%29

and depending on how he intends to pursue his grievence, perhaps here:

Lex Salicia poenalis
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_poenalis _%28Nova_ Roma%29

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Cato,
>
> I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as

Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
Republic and

> will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator

Hortensia Maior.

>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma

__________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve
Tribune you do not have the power in the law to stop the court *DO NOT
MAKE A FOOL OF THE OFFICE OF Tribune*
VALE
Marcus Cornelius Felix









--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:

>
> Titus Flavius Aquila C.Popilli Laenas salutem plurimam dicit
>
> Salve Laenas,
>
> thank you for your advise, which is very valuable for me as you are

a former Tribune.

>
> But I do have taken my decision, I will state intercessio and I will

stop this farce.

>
> This is not about one single citizen against another single citizen,

everybody knows that.

>
> This whole trial will start anger, offend feelings and will turn

further Nova Roma citizens

> - which are followers of the Religio Romana - away from Nova Roma,

it endangers Nova Roma.

>
> That´s why I will stop it !
>
> Optime Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:28:31 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> C. Popillius Laenas T. Flavio Aquilo SPD.
>
> Salve Tribune,
>
> With respect, I offer my experience as a past Tribune and as the
> Praetor who managed Nova Roma's first lawsuit.
>
> In Nova Roma, a Tribune's right of intercessio is not absolute. It
> is limited by the Constitution and further refined by the Lex Didia
> Gemina de potestate tribunicia, passed by my coleague during our
> Tribunate.
>
> The following is the relevant quote:
>
> >>1. When a Tribunus Plebis issues an intercessio, it must include
> the following elements in a reasoned exposition in which the Tribunus
> shall note whether the auxilium was requested or ex-officio:
>
> a. The official name(s) of the citizen(s) who has requested the
> Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s) of
> the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium ex
> officio.
>
> b. The official name and office of the magistrate(s) against whose
> act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed.
>
> c. The article(s) of the Constitution or the leges violated by the
> magistrate's act(s).
>
> 2. If the intercessio of a Tribunus Plebis does not include these
> three elements, the intercessio shall be invalid.<<
>
> The full text of the law is here:
>
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Didia_Gemina_ de_potestate_

tribunicia_ %

> 28Nova_Roma% 29
>
> Since this is a matter between two private cives, and no law or
> spirit of law is being violated, intercessio would not be valid. In
> fact, the right of Gn. Equitius Marinus to bring suit is
> speciffiaclly covered by our laws here:
>
> Lex Salicia iudiciaria
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_iudiciar ia_%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> and depending on how he intends to pursue his grievence, perhaps here:
>
> Lex Salicia poenalis
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_poenalis _%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
> <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Cato,
> >
> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as
> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Nova Roma
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo

gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Maior <rory12001@...> writes:
[...]

> I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was
> elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution.

Oh, really?

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29

"Any citizen of Nova Roma shall be able to bring an action against
another citizen of Nova Roma."

You are once again confusing the practices of antiquity with our laws.
While there is a long-standing Nova Roman custom of delaying
proceedings against current serving magistrates if charges are brought
against them while they are serving in office, there is no custom and
no law which says that you escape prosecution by entering into office.



CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve Felix,

acting Roman never makes a fool out of somebody, you should know.

I will keep the Roman Heritage up, especially the Tribunes rights to protect any Plebeian from
prosecution. If you like it or dislike it, up to you .

Vale optime
Titus Flavius Aquila


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: vallenporter <vallenporter@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 22:05:57 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio


Salve
Tribune you do not have the power in the law to stop the court *DO NOT
MAKE A FOOL OF THE OFFICE OF Tribune*
VALE
Marcus Cornelius Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:

>
> Titus Flavius Aquila C.Popilli Laenas salutem plurimam dicit
>
> Salve Laenas,
>
> thank you for your advise, which is very valuable for me as you are

a former Tribune.

>
> But I do have taken my decision, I will state intercessio and I will

stop this farce.

>
> This is not about one single citizen against another single citizen,

everybody knows that.

>
> This whole trial will start anger, offend feelings and will turn

further Nova Roma citizens

> - which are followers of the Religio Romana - away from Nova Roma,

it endangers Nova Roma.

>
> That´s why I will stop it !
>
> Optime Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ ...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:28:31 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> C. Popillius Laenas T. Flavio Aquilo SPD.
>
> Salve Tribune,
>
> With respect, I offer my experience as a past Tribune and as the
> Praetor who managed Nova Roma's first lawsuit.
>
> In Nova Roma, a Tribune's right of intercessio is not absolute. It
> is limited by the Constitution and further refined by the Lex Didia
> Gemina de potestate tribunicia, passed by my coleague during our
> Tribunate.
>
> The following is the relevant quote:
>
> >>1. When a Tribunus Plebis issues an intercessio, it must include
> the following elements in a reasoned exposition in which the Tribunus
> shall note whether the auxilium was requested or ex-officio:
>
> a. The official name(s) of the citizen(s) who has requested the
> Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s) of
> the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium ex
> officio.
>
> b. The official name and office of the magistrate(s) against whose
> act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed.
>
> c. The article(s) of the Constitution or the leges violated by the
> magistrate's act(s).
>
> 2. If the intercessio of a Tribunus Plebis does not include these
> three elements, the intercessio shall be invalid.<<
>
> The full text of the law is here:
>
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Didia_Gemina_ de_potestate_

tribunicia_ %

> 28Nova_Roma% 29
>
> Since this is a matter between two private cives, and no law or
> spirit of law is being violated, intercessio would not be valid. In
> fact, the right of Gn. Equitius Marinus to bring suit is
> speciffiaclly covered by our laws here:
>
> Lex Salicia iudiciaria
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_iudiciar ia_%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> and depending on how he intends to pursue his grievence, perhaps here:
>
> Lex Salicia poenalis
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_poenalis _%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
> <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Cato,
> >
> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as
> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Nova Roma
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ ____ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo

gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/ clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tribune,

Maybe the corect path is to ask Maior to be an advocate for her in
the trial, even though I expect she will ask Cordus. Or, you might
ask her to speak to the Iudices on her behalf in the Tribunilis
during the course of the trial.

As far as the Tribunate goes, drop it. This is private, not public,
even though it occurred in a public forum. You have no powers or
authority here. This falls under the realm of the Praetors.

As a Plebeian, I sincerely appreciate your dedication to the mission,
but you cannot fix a leaky pipe with a claw hammer. You have to use
the right tool. That tool is the Tribunalis, not the Tribunate.

For NR Legal References, see:
http://tinyurl.com/35pwws


Vale optime,
Triarius
Former Iudex

Salve Senator Cato,

you don´t get it, do you ? You start it over and over again and thus causing Nova Romans to leave Nova Roma.

You are so smart, so clever , so alert, so eloquent but I will watch you very closely be assured. If you do start
your Christian Propaganda again, I will be there.

Now Senatrix Maior has asked me to drop the intercessio against the farce you have setup and I will do so for
the time being.

Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM
Nova Roma


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:54:09 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio

Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.

Salve Flavius Aquila.

If you do not understand the law regarding the use of an intercessio,
then you need all the advice you can get. Let me put it this way: if
you pronounce an intercessio in this case it will be, quite simply,
ignored, since you have no legal standing upon which to pronounce one.
This has been appropriately shown by several citizens already.
Perhaps you should take a look at the law, as this is a crucial
misunderstanding for one who is a tribune. Violating the law is not a
particularly Roman ideal.

Nor is it your, or anyone else's, decision as to the merits of the
charges. That is why we have courts of law.

Vale,

Cato

know that you cann--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius
Aquila <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senator Cato,
>
> I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as

Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
Republic and

> will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator

Hortensia Maior.

>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 27. Dezember 2007, 18:54:51 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "My thanks to our Tribune of the Plebs, T. Flavius Aquila for his
> efforts to end this. He does act in the manner of the Republic."
>
> Attempting - even inadvertently - to violate the restrictions on his
> constitutional powers is not exactly something which should be
> praised, Maior. Rather you might urge him to study more carefully
> what he can and cannot do under the law in order to serve the
> Respublica more effectively.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ ____ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo

gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/ clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

__________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CCCC OOOO N N CCCC OOOO RRR DDD I AAAA
C O O NN N C O O R R D D I A A
C O O N NN C O O RRR D D I AAAA
CCCC OOOO N N CCCC OOOO R R DDD I A A

M. Hortensia Maior T. Flavio Aquilo spd:
Again please do not ruin your holiday over this business. A.
Apollonius Cordus has accepted my case. I have complete confidence
in him. I am sorry to see such a silly action but I am not worried.

May Dea Fortuna and the gods protect all pious Romans!

Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Salve Senator Cato,
>
> you don´t get it, do you ? You start it over and over again and

thus causing Nova Romans to leave Nova Roma.

>
> You are so smart, so clever , so alert, so eloquent but I will

watch you very closely be assured. If you do start

> your Christian Propaganda again, I will be there.
>
> Now Senatrix Maior has asked me to drop the intercessio against

the farce you have setup and I will do so for

> the time being.
>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> Nova Roma
>
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:54:09 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.
>
> Salve Flavius Aquila.
>
> If you do not understand the law regarding the use of an

intercessio,

> then you need all the advice you can get. Let me put it this way:

if

> you pronounce an intercessio in this case it will be, quite simply,
> ignored, since you have no legal standing upon which to pronounce

one.

> This has been appropriately shown by several citizens already.
> Perhaps you should take a look at the law, as this is a crucial
> misunderstanding for one who is a tribune. Violating the law is

not a

> particularly Roman ideal.
>
> Nor is it your, or anyone else's, decision as to the merits of the
> charges. That is why we have courts of law.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> know that you cann--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius
> Aquila <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Cato,
> >
> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I

as

> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Nova Roma
> >
> >
> > ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> > Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@ .>
> > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 27. Dezember 2007, 18:54:51 Uhr
> > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
> >
> > Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > "My thanks to our Tribune of the Plebs, T. Flavius Aquila for his
> > efforts to end this. He does act in the manner of the Republic."
> >
> > Attempting - even inadvertently - to violate the restrictions on

his

> > constitutional powers is not exactly something which should be
> > praised, Maior. Rather you might urge him to study more carefully
> > what he can and cannot do under the law in order to serve the
> > Respublica more effectively.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ ____ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo
> gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/ clever
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen

Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

M. Hortensia praetoribus Gn. Equitio Marinoque spd;

please address all questions and legal discussions to my lawyer, A.
Apollonius Cordus.
di deasque vobis ament
M. Hortensia Maior

> > I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was
> > elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution.
>
> Oh, really?
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> "Any citizen of Nova Roma shall be able to bring an action

against

> another citizen of Nova Roma."
>
> You are once again confusing the practices of antiquity with our

laws.

> While there is a long-standing Nova Roman custom of delaying
> proceedings against current serving magistrates if charges are

brought

> against them while they are serving in office, there is no custom

and

> no law which says that you escape prosecution by entering into

office.

>
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

M. Hortensia T. Flavio Aquilo:
Post intercessio! If it is indeed symbolic, I applaud you and
support you.
May the gods favour Rome and all Romans
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Titus Flavius Aquila C.Popilli Laenas salutem plurimam dicit
>
> Salve Laenas,
>
> thank you for your advise, which is very valuable for me as you

are a former Tribune.

>
> But I do have taken my decision, I will state intercessio and I

will stop this farce.

>
> This is not about one single citizen against another single

citizen, everybody knows that.

>
> This whole trial will start anger, offend feelings and will turn

further Nova Roma citizens

> - which are followers of the Religio Romana - away from Nova Roma,

it endangers Nova Roma.

>
> That´s why I will stop it !
>
> Optime Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:28:31 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> C. Popillius Laenas T. Flavio Aquilo SPD.
>
> Salve Tribune,
>
> With respect, I offer my experience as a past Tribune and as the
> Praetor who managed Nova Roma's first lawsuit.
>
> In Nova Roma, a Tribune's right of intercessio is not absolute. It
> is limited by the Constitution and further refined by the Lex

Didia

> Gemina de potestate tribunicia, passed by my coleague during our
> Tribunate.
>
> The following is the relevant quote:
>
> >>1. When a Tribunus Plebis issues an intercessio, it must include
> the following elements in a reasoned exposition in which the

Tribunus

> shall note whether the auxilium was requested or ex-officio:
>
> a. The official name(s) of the citizen(s) who has requested the
> Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s)

of

> the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium

ex

> officio.
>
> b. The official name and office of the magistrate(s) against whose
> act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed.
>
> c. The article(s) of the Constitution or the leges violated by the
> magistrate's act(s).
>
> 2. If the intercessio of a Tribunus Plebis does not include these
> three elements, the intercessio shall be invalid.<<
>
> The full text of the law is here:
>
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Didia_Gemina_ de_potestate_

tribunicia_ %

> 28Nova_Roma% 29
>
> Since this is a matter between two private cives, and no law or
> spirit of law is being violated, intercessio would not be valid.

In

> fact, the right of Gn. Equitius Marinus to bring suit is
> speciffiaclly covered by our laws here:
>
> Lex Salicia iudiciaria
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_iudiciar ia_%28Nova_ Roma%

29

>
> and depending on how he intends to pursue his grievence, perhaps

here:

>
> Lex Salicia poenalis
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Salicia_poenalis _%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
> <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Cato,
> >
> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I

as

> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Nova Roma
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo

gibt es den schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica praetrix tribuno T. Flavio Aquilae quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Senator Cato,
>
> I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as Tribunus
> Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman Republic and
> will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator Hortensia Maior.
>
> ATS: Tribune, you are sworn to uphold our laws, and to obey them. I
> suggest you read the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, the Lex Salicia Poenalis, and the
> section of the constitution dealing with tribunician powers. You will see
> that you cannot intervene, and that we have little choice but to accept these
> charges. They are not ridiculous, and even if Marinus or anyone had charged
> that Hortensia had harmed the RP by dropping Latin class we would still have
> to examine them, and follow the law. There is no legal basis for dropping
> these charges, and they won¹t be. Moreover, you could not intervene even if
> such charges (as dropping Latin class) had been accepted. Consularis Laenas,
> who is also a plebeian and a former tribune, has graciously informed you of
> these matters. We are following the law here; you should do the same.
>
> Vale bene
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Nova Roma
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@... <mailto:mlcinnyc%40gmail.com> >
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 27. Dezember 2007, 18:54:51 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
> Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> You wrote:
>
> "My thanks to our Tribune of the Plebs, T. Flavius Aquila for his
> efforts to end this. He does act in the manner of the Republic."
>
> Attempting - even inadvertently - to violate the restrictions on his
> constitutional powers is not exactly something which should be
> praised, Maior. Rather you might urge him to study more carefully
> what he can and cannot do under the law in order to serve the
> Respublica more effectively.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den
> schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54191;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Titus Flavius Aquila Marca Hortensia Maior salutem plurimam dicit

Salve Senatrix Maior,

I do honour your wish and will not state intercessio, although many Plebeian Religio Romana followers would
have supported this intercessio, and are seeing these charges as a farce to shut up the freedom of speech
and as a threat against the Religio Romana , thus endangering Nova Roma.

We have already lost citizens as you know, the biggest loss is Minervalis and there are others.

You are truely Roman and an asset to the Senate of Nova Roma, be assured the hearts of the Plebeians are with you.

We will watch the trial very closely if it ever comes ! But for now you are protected as an elected Magistrate.

Be assured that we will contact A. Apollonius Cordus, to elaborate on our historical tribunian right.


Optime vale and may all the mighty eternal Roman Gods shine on you

Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Maior <rory12001@...>
An: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...>
Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:55:50 Uhr
Betreff: From Maior

Re: Stlitem nuntio


-M. Hortensia T. Flavio Aquilae spd;
I am writing this on the ML as Aquila is on holiday and cannot
access his email, so please excuse me.

Aquila you cannot use intercessio against a lawsuit, as the
current laws of Nova Roma do not give tribunes this historical legal
power. So there is nothing you can do now.

" The issuance and function of Intercessio shall be defined
according to procedures described by legislation passed by Comitia. "
Lex Vedia de tribunis plebis
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_tribunis_plebis_%28Nova_Roma%
29

When you return why not work with A. Apollonius Cordus, who has
degrees in classics and law to return this historical tribunian
right.

I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was
elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution. So
please do not concern yourself about me and enjoy your vacation and
your family!
bene valete in pacem deorum
Maior








Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen? Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail.


__________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Popillio Laenati T. Flavio Aquilae quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Popillius Laenas T. Flavio Aquilo SPD.
>
> Salve Tribune,
>
> With respect, I offer my experience as a past Tribune and as the
> Praetor who managed Nova Roma's first lawsuit.
>
> ATS: Thank you for lending your expertise to this matter. Tribunus
> Aquila, with whom I have had friendly correspondence, seems to be confused as
> to what he can and cannot do. Interference in a private lawsuit is not one of
> those things he can do, like it or not. To do so would violate our laws.
>
>
> In Nova Roma, a Tribune's right of intercessio is not absolute. It
> is limited by the Constitution and further refined by the Lex Didia
> Gemina de potestate tribunicia, passed by my coleague during our
> Tribunate.
>
> The following is the relevant quote:
>
>>> >>1. When a Tribunus Plebis issues an intercessio, it must include
> the following elements in a reasoned exposition in which the Tribunus
> shall note whether the auxilium was requested or ex-officio:
>
> a. The official name(s) of the citizen(s) who has requested the
> Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s) of
> the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium ex
> officio.
>
> b. The official name and office of the magistrate(s) against whose
> act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed.
>
> c. The article(s) of the Constitution or the leges violated by the
> magistrate's act(s).
>
> 2. If the intercessio of a Tribunus Plebis does not include these
> three elements, the intercessio shall be invalid.<<
>
> The full text of the law is here:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Didia_Gemina_de_potestate_tribunicia_%
> 28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Since this is a matter between two private cives, and no law or
> spirit of law is being violated, intercessio would not be valid. In
> fact, the right of Gn. Equitius Marinus to bring suit is
> speciffiaclly covered by our laws here:
>
> Lex Salicia iudiciaria
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_iudiciaria_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> and depending on how he intends to pursue his grievence, perhaps here:
>
> Lex Salicia poenalis
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Salicia_poenalis_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Titus
> Flavius Aquila
> <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve Senator Cato,
>> >
>> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as
> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
>> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
>> >
>> > Vale bene
>> > Titus Flavius Aquila
>> > Tribunus Plebis
>> > Nova Roma
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54191;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
> and in which one segment of
>>> > > our community has been more or less told to put up and shut up, as
> well as get
>>> > > out of town unless they renounce their religion.
>>> > >
>
> No one told anyone to renounce their religion and get out of town,
>
> ATS: Sorry to disappoint you, but that did occur.
>
> neither more nor less, just like you didn't really ask anyone to burn
> a cross on a lawn.
>
> ATS: I did not ask anyone to burn a cross on anyone¹s lawn; I pointed out
> that the comments in question were quite similar to those espoused by the KKK,
> which has a habit of burning crosses on lawns.
>
> Can we cut the melodrama?
>
> ATS: I am not a melodramatic, or dramatic, or hyperemotional, person.
> Unlike Hortensia and others, I have a calm temperament. As A. Sempronius
> Regulus noted, there is a fine concept, hesychia. Hesychia kalon.
>
> -Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maior Aquilo sal;
amice, make the intercessio for the various reason & also
for reason of a lawsuit. Contact the Webmaster and ask them kindly
to set up the Cista and:
why not call the Comitia & introduce a law restoring the ancient
Republican right of tribunes to issue intercessio over lawsuits and
make it 'ex post facto' meaning it applies to me. Consult Cordus
over this.
bene vale
Maior

> I do honour your wish and will not state intercessio, although

many Plebeian Religio Romana followers would

> have supported this intercessio, and are seeing these charges as a

farce to shut up the freedom of speech

> and as a threat against the Religio Romana , thus endangering Nova

Roma.

>
> We have already lost citizens as you know, the biggest loss is

Minervalis and there are others.

>
> You are truely Roman and an asset to the Senate of Nova Roma, be

assured the hearts of the Plebeians are with you.

>
> We will watch the trial very closely if it ever comes ! But for

now you are protected as an elected Magistrate.

>
> Be assured that we will contact A. Apollonius Cordus, to elaborate

on our historical tribunian right.

>
>
> Optime vale and may all the mighty eternal Roman Gods shine on you
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Maior <rory12001@...>
> An: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...>
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:55:50 Uhr
> Betreff: From Maior
>
> Re: Stlitem nuntio
>
>
> -M. Hortensia T. Flavio Aquilae spd;
> I am writing this on the ML as Aquila is on holiday and cannot
> access his email, so please excuse me.
>
> Aquila you cannot use intercessio against a lawsuit, as the
> current laws of Nova Roma do not give tribunes this historical

legal

> power. So there is nothing you can do now.
>
> " The issuance and function of Intercessio shall be defined
> according to procedures described by legislation passed by

Comitia. "

> Lex Vedia de tribunis plebis
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_tribunis_plebis_%

28Nova_Roma%

> 29
>
> When you return why not work with A. Apollonius Cordus, who has
> degrees in classics and law to return this historical tribunian
> right.
>
> I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was
> elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution. So
> please do not concern yourself about me and enjoy your vacation and
> your family!
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> Maior
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?

Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail.

>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen

Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.

Salve tribune.

Flavius Aquila, if you attempt to pronounce intercessio in a matter
that has been clearly, unequivocably shown is not within your power or
authority as a tribune of the plebeians of the Respublica you are
VIOLATING THE LAW. It is that simple. A former tribune has explained
this to you. Several citizens have explained this to you. I have
explained this to you.

Please do not make a mockery of your office.

Vale,

Cato

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

What you have shown is that you are not impartial when it comes to
Marca Hortensia Maior. Your animosity towards her is legion. Next
years praetores should handle the petitio actionis.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 5:45 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis
> > S.P.D.

> > Can we cut the melodrama?
> >
> > ATS: I am not a melodramatic, or dramatic, or hyperemotional, person.
> > Unlike Hortensia and others, I have a calm temperament. As A. Sempronius
> > Regulus noted, there is a fine concept, hesychia. Hesychia kalon.

> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica L. Iulio Regulo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>>> > > Salve,
>>> > >
>>> > > It is coming to a point where the conclusions of some citizens is
> being overly
>>> > > exaggerated and quite embarrasing. No one was ever told to get out
> of town or
>>> > > renounce their religion
>> >
>> > ATS: Apparently you and some others did not receive the post
> which did
>> > in fact make such assertions.
>> >
>
> No. She didn't really want christians removed from nova roma, anyone
> with half of a brain can see that.
>
> ATS2: I have both hemispheres of my brain, thank you very kindly.
> Marinus, Cato, and I have met M. Hortensia in person, and dined with her. I
> have had an extensive conversation with her in private. All of us have been
> on lists with her, and Marinus and I at least have been in cohortes with her.
> All of us have been here long enough to know her temperament, and to know that
> she did mean what she said.
>
>
> And your perpetual claim that she
> did is foolishness. It makes you look like jerk. I would advise you to
> drop it, unless you plan on joining the Marine with his ridiculous
> petition.
>
> ATS2: Marinus¹ petitio is not ridiculous. If it is foolishness for a
> magistrate to obey the law, I plead guilty. Thing is, it isn¹t foolish.
>
> Everyone else managed to end the topic, but for some reason you are
> bent on keeping it going. Enough already. No one is going to believe
> the Senatrix really wants to kick out christians, duh.
>
> ATS2: This senatrix does believe that Hortensia was following one of the
> oldest planks in the Boni platform, though she supposedly does not belong to
> that faction. We who have been here, who have seen her in action here and
> elsewhere, are in a better position to judge that than those who have not had
> such experiences.
>
> -Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.

We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.

We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
New Year.

Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
Galerio Paulino coss.

Salve Maior
laws that are "'ex post facto'" are very bad.
vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Aquilo sal;
> amice, make the intercessio for the various reason & also
> for reason of a lawsuit. Contact the Webmaster and ask them kindly
> to set up the Cista and:
> why not call the Comitia & introduce a law restoring the ancient
> Republican right of tribunes to issue intercessio over lawsuits and
> make it 'ex post facto' meaning it applies to me. Consult Cordus
> over this.
> bene vale
> Maior
>
>
>
>
> > I do honour your wish and will not state intercessio, although
> many Plebeian Religio Romana followers would
> > have supported this intercessio, and are seeing these charges as a
> farce to shut up the freedom of speech
> > and as a threat against the Religio Romana , thus endangering Nova
> Roma.
> >
> > We have already lost citizens as you know, the biggest loss is
> Minervalis and there are others.
> >
> > You are truely Roman and an asset to the Senate of Nova Roma, be
> assured the hearts of the Plebeians are with you.
> >
> > We will watch the trial very closely if it ever comes ! But for
> now you are protected as an elected Magistrate.
> >
> > Be assured that we will contact A. Apollonius Cordus, to elaborate
> on our historical tribunian right.
> >
> >
> > Optime vale and may all the mighty eternal Roman Gods shine on you
> >
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> > Tribunus Plebis
> > Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> >
> > ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> > Von: Maior <rory12001@>
> > An: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@>
> > Gesendet: Freitag, den 28. Dezember 2007, 21:55:50 Uhr
> > Betreff: From Maior
> >
> > Re: Stlitem nuntio
> >
> >
> > -M. Hortensia T. Flavio Aquilae spd;
> > I am writing this on the ML as Aquila is on holiday and cannot
> > access his email, so please excuse me.
> >
> > Aquila you cannot use intercessio against a lawsuit, as the
> > current laws of Nova Roma do not give tribunes this historical
> legal
> > power. So there is nothing you can do now.
> >
> > " The issuance and function of Intercessio shall be defined
> > according to procedures described by legislation passed by
> Comitia. "
> > Lex Vedia de tribunis plebis
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_tribunis_plebis_%
> 28Nova_Roma%
> > 29
> >
> > When you return why not work with A. Apollonius Cordus, who has
> > degrees in classics and law to return this historical tribunian
> > right.
> >
> > I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was
> > elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution. So
> > please do not concern yourself about me and enjoy your vacation and
> > your family!
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > Maior
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?
> Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen
> Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

I too have worked with Marca Hortensia Maior, and I too have had my
conflicts with her -- conflicts that go back years. However, I see
value in her work and in her opinions otherwise I wouldn't have
appointed her to the senate along with my colleague. She has said
some pretty asinine things on the main list, but so have many of us
myself included. Part of the problem, as I see it, is the constant
pissing match between you two. She has refrained in making personal
attacks towards you, but it seems you use every opportunity to attack
her. I'm not sure its necessary anymore.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 5:59 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica iterum Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae
> > voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > Everyone else managed to end the topic, but for some reason you are
> > bent on keeping it going. Enough already. No one is going to believe
> > the Senatrix really wants to kick out christians, duh.
> >
> > ATS2: This senatrix does believe that Hortensia was following one of the
> > oldest planks in the Boni platform, though she supposedly does not belong
> to
> > that faction. We who have been here, who have seen her in action here and
> > elsewhere, are in a better position to judge that than those who have not
> had
> > such experiences.

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cato omnes in Foro SPD
>
> ...omnibus...
>
> Salvete.
>
> Apparently some of you - and Minucia Marcella in particular - missed
> M. Hortensia Maior's public statements:
>
> ATS: It seems that she and others did, or failed to understand them.
> Clearly there is a Yahoo problem affecting some in the PNW if nowhere else,
> though some elsewhere have reported inordinate delays.
>
> "It is very Roman to get upset over 'foreign' religions and care about
> religious purity. And they had an answer: they expelled them!
>
> In 139 and 33 B.C astrologers were expelled from Rome. Rhetors,
> diviners, Jews and Isis followers were expelled too.
>
> During the reign of Tiberius. Jews and Egyptians were required to
> renounce their superstitio by a certain date.
>
> So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
> feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
> superstitio."
>
> and
>
> "Maybe we need to introduce into the oath of office for
> magistrates: "I, (enter legal the Roman name here) swear to uphold
> and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
> swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
> State Religion. 'AND I abjure all superstitio privately and
> publically' I really don't know what else to do...."
>
> These are her words, not an exaggeration of them or a misquote. They
> violate the spirit and letter of the lex Constituiva - our
> legally-binding macronational By-Laws - and the Declaratio of the
> Rspublica.
>
> ATS: And if anyone thinks that these are jests, or that Marinus¹ petitio
> is foolish or unwarranted, he or she had better read these more closely, and
> note the relevant legislation. An inspection into past behavior of the poster
> might also be in order. Cato, Marinus, and I have met M. Hortensia; Cato has
> met her on several occasions. We know whereof we speak. If this isn¹t
> Klan-like in its tone, I don¹t know what is...maybe an eviction order from the
> most hardcore of the Boni: leave NR!, perhaps?
>
> Minucia Marcella, you obviously do not understand the way in which a
> society binds itself together under a rule of law; your responses to
> the magistrates of the Respublica, who are acting under the rule of
> the law, are obnoxious, unwarranted, and ignorant of the concept of a
> community which has willingly and knowingly bound itself under a
> social contract.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit

A joint edict of which you, your colleague, and myself has been
issued. Could you please allow that to stand and cease adding fuel to
the fire? What do you hope to accomplish by attacking the character
of Marca Hortensia Maior? She has a strong personality, she is
opinionated, and she makes comments that offend people. Sounds like
more than one person here in Nova Roma :)

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 7:18 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> >
> > ATS: And if anyone thinks that these are jests, or that Marinus¹ petitio
> > is foolish or unwarranted, he or she had better read these more closely,
> and
> > note the relevant legislation. An inspection into past behavior of the
> poster
> > might also be in order. Cato, Marinus, and I have met M. Hortensia; Cato
> has
> > met her on several occasions. We know whereof we speak. If this isn¹t
> > Klan-like in its tone, I don¹t know what is...maybe an eviction order
> from the
> > most hardcore of the Boni: leave NR!, perhaps?

> A. Tullia Scholastica A. Apollonio Cordo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis s.p.d.
>
>
>
> A. Apollonius K. Buteoni sal.
>
> Scripsit A. Tullia:
>
>> > However, the titles must remain in Latin. After all, this is a
>> > Roman-based organization, and the Romans spoke Latin; it is our common
>> > language, so that the titles are identical even if the text is
>> > translated and everyone knows exactly which law is meant.
>
> Scripsisti:
>
>> > Is the MUST in which you refer to a legally binding must, mandated by
>> > law, or simply your strong opinion? English, if I remember correctly,
>> > is the official business language of Nova Roma and that being true I
>> > think a strong case can be had for these laws having their titles in
>> > English -- at least in a table for ease of reference, with a redirect
>> > to the actual law.
>> >
>> > However, since you did write must I would like to be notified of the
>> > exact Lex you are referring to that requires laws be listed in Latin.
>
> A rule does not have to be written in a lex to be legally binding in Nova
> Roma. That is well established. So I encourage you, and indeed all senior
> statesmen to whom our citizens look to learn the business of the republic, not
> to give the casual impression that if a person cannot cite words in a lex then
> whatever he says is necessarily a false statement of the law.
>
> However, in this case I am aware or no legal rule requiring the title of leges
> to be given in Latin. There is, at best, a strong custom. It is almost the
> strongest custom we have in Nova Roma, in fact, since it has been adhered to
> without the slightest hesitation or challenge for the entire life of the
> republic.
>
> ATS: Indeed, this is our mos maiorum from the very beginning of the Res
> Publica, long before Avitus, Lentulus, I, or any Latinist was here...a matter
> clearly demonstrated by the original names of the laws.
>
> And it's true that custom can come to acquire the status of law. But I do not
> think this one is there yet.
>
> The title of a lex is not part of the text of the lex. It is really nothing
> more than a convenient description. There is no reason why you cannot call a
> lex one way and I another. It is true that, as A. Tullia has said, confusion
> may arise unless there is some consensus about what a given lex is called so
> that everyone understands what everyone else is talking about. But really
> there is little risk of confusion. If I talk about 'the Equitian statute
> concerning families', there is only one lex I could possibly mean. The same
> is true of most of the statutes.
>
> ATS: On the other hand, if one were speaking of the Vedian law on
> elections, for example, a lot of confusion might arise.
>
>
> So I see no legal or practical reason why leges should not be called by
> English names, or names in any other language, so long as sufficient precision
> is used to ensure that we know what we mean.
>
> ATS: That would be taking a step backward from our Romanitas, and from
> comprehension of the law titles even by non-Latineloquentes among Romance
> speakers. Moreover, since 60% of English is derived from English, a sensible,
> educated English speaker should be able to figure out the meanings of these
> terms from English alone; if not, from the use of a small, Collins-type Latin
> dictionary. The Collins even has the basic inflections in there so that
> anyone unfamiliar with the Latin inflections could inspect them and retrieve
> the basic form of a word.
>
> There are various people working in various slow and steady ways to try to
> make our legal texts more accessible.
>
> ATS: Some sort of redirect or whatever from an English, etc., subject
> line might be a good idea...
>
>
> But I really must disagree with those who say that every citizen ought to read
> every legal text.
>
> ATS: I read all of them in the Tabularium before I became a citizen. I
> wanted to know what I was getting in for. Now, it is true that one need not
> be familiar with the rescinded ones, or some others, but a basic familiarity
> with those which govern every day behavior, which govern elections, and, yes,
> which govern lawsuits, is more than a good idea.
>
>
> I doubt whether more than a handful of Romans in the time of Scipio had read
> every single lex in the aerarium.
>
> ATS: By then Rome probably had a lot more of them than we do.
>
> I doubt, frankly, whether many Romans had even read one.
>
> ATS: And then there is the matter that a lot of Romans could not read at
> all...
>
>
> It is simply ridiculous to expect every citizen to be a self-taught legal
> expert.
>
> ATS: Of course.
>
> People ought not to be given a verbal slapping because they do not know the
> fine details of the law of judicial procedure.
>
> ATS: It is a good idea, however, for the tribunes to know what they can
> and cannot do, and that they cannot intervene in lawsuits. It is also a good
> idea for the citizens to understand that people DO have the right to file such
> suits, and that there are certain procedures for this.
>
>
> If someone appears unaware of some important and relevant detail of the law of
> judicial procedure then that detail should be explained to him. And if anyone
> wishes to know something about the law, that person should feel free to ask
> about it, and should receive a helpful answer without being told peremptorily
> to go off and spend a few weeks reading the entire corpus of legal
> texts. And that person should also not be given the impression that anyone
> who spends those few weeks reading the entire corpus of legal texts will know
> the whole law of Nova Roma. He won't. Not everything is written down.
>
> Most ancient Romans knew relatively little law. When they wanted to know
> something about the law, they asked someone with the relevant knowledge and
> experience. There were people who sat in the forum and explained the law day
> in and day out. They did not say "go away and read the leges yourself".
>
> ATS: That, Corde, is not quite what I said.
>
> Yes, it is of course a good idea to make legal texts accessible to the general
> public. There are efforts being made to do so. But at the same time we must
> not expect the whole body of our law to be easily comprehensible to the
> ordinary citizen after only five minutes' study, and we must not expect
> ordinary citizens even to try to comprehend the whole body of our law.
>
> ATS: Of course not. Some idea of our laws, however, is highly desirable.
> If citizens had read the constitution and the relevant laws, we would not hear
> cries of I¹m 18, but the consul said I can¹t run for office, for everyone
> would know that the law specifies a minimum age for the various offices; we
> would not hear that expulsion of a religious group from NR is desirable or
> that Christians and others have no right to cite texts from their faith, etc.,
> and we would not hear that people may not file suits when such violations of
> their rights was suggested.
>
> They have better things to do with their time. If they want to know, they can
> ask. And if they so frightened of being slapped down that they do not want to
> ask in this forum, then they can ask me privately, and I'll be happy to give
> them my understanding of the law and to refer them to someone else for a
> second opinion.
>
> ATS: Speak for yourself, Corde, but I haven¹t seen any slapping down on
> the magisterial end at least, though there has been plenty of slapping
> directed against those who, in constitutionally-approved fashion, were
> expressing their faith.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> __________________________________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Aemilius Crassus! Happy New year to you!

M.H.A.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@...> wrote:

>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,
>
> I will be out till January, 2nd, and probably without Internet

access in this period, so I would like to wish you all a prosperous
and happy new year.

>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------

> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------

>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________
_______________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping

>

Salvete!

I think these praetors have a conflict of interest in this case and
the next year's praetors should handle it.

Valete,

Annia Minucia Marcella


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
> censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>
> We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
> charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
> her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
> of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
> religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
> from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
> private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
> every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
> and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
> create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
> publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
> magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.
>
> We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
> US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
> December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
> New Year.
>
> Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
> Galerio Paulino coss.
>

Salve!

Yes! I agree with this.


Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> What you have shown is that you are not impartial when it comes to
> Marca Hortensia Maior. Your animosity towards her is legion. Next
> years praetores should handle the petitio actionis.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Dec 28, 2007 5:45 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
> >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae
> > voluntatis
> > > S.P.D.
>
> > > Can we cut the melodrama?
> > >
> > > ATS: I am not a melodramatic, or dramatic, or hyperemotional,

person.

> > > Unlike Hortensia and others, I have a calm temperament. As A.

Sempronius

> > > Regulus noted, there is a fine concept, hesychia. Hesychia kalon.
>

Agricola Omnibus sal.

I see below this phrase: "violation of the spirit and letter of the
laws of the Republic and of common civility". I am uncomfortable with
seeing legal process used to enforce "the spirit... of the laws",
especially when some have so recently been exercised to call for
attention to the letter of them, solely. I am also uncomfortable with
seeing legal process used to enforce "common civility". That
especially so when so many things could fall under that rubric, even
things like simple name-calling. Civility, if it was damaged, seems to
have been restored already, for example here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54079 I will set aside
the fact that we are a very international group, and ideas of what
constitutes "civility" vary quite a lot. (It is a commonplace that
every should rise at this point and say "*I* know what it is, it is
thus-and such". Such parochial notions that one person speaks for all
humanity in these matters won't be entertained.)

If we invoke the power of the laws it is my opinion that we should
stick to the letter of them. This is not only the safest way forward,
it is the Roman way, at least, since the publication of the Law of the
Twelve Tables.

If this sort of edict must be issued now, I call for it to attend
strictly to the legal issues.

optime valete in pace deorum.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
wrote:

>
> Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
> censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>
> We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
> charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
> her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
> of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
> religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
> from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
> private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
> every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
> and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
> create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
> publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
> magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.
>
> We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
> US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
> December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
> New Year.
>
> Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
> Galerio Paulino coss.
>

In a message dated 12/28/2007 1:29:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gawne@... writes:

I sincerely doubt anything will come of this business as I was

> elected questor and magistrates are immune from prosecution.

Well not really. If you were in office as a magistrate when you made the
inflammatory statements in the forum, the petition would just wait until you left
office and were a privitius.
However, you were just standing for the office, when the petition was served
to the Praetors and you will not assume office until Kalends Ian. So you are
not immune from consequences.

Q. Fabius Maximus





**************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---P. Minucia A. Tulliae Scholasticae G. Equitiae Catoni Praetoribus
S.P.D.

Without prejudice.......talking 'law' here

I have been absent for a bit, so please excuse me if I have missed
something.

But is this arrangement ok with the actor?

I am not judging your good intentions, and at the *end of the day*,
the formula would likely amount to a public apology from the reus, but
in a settlement of sorts outside court, ie, outside the Leges
Saliciae, would this not have to involve the consent of the actor, who
laid the charge in the first place?

I apologize again in advance if I have missed something.

Valete



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
> censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>
> We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
> charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
> her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
> of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
> religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
> from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
> private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
> every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
> and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
> create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
> publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
> magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.
>
> We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
> US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
> December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
> New Year.
>
> Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
> Galerio Paulino coss.
>

Salve Praetrix,

"A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> writes:

[....]

> maybe an eviction order from the
> most hardcore of the Boni: leave NR!, perhaps?

Please retract that. It's utter nonsense to suggest that Marca
Hortensia has ever acted as a mouthpiece for the (now defunct) Boni.
She is many things, but she was never, ever, a Bonus.

Furthermore, I strongly recommend you give up your public declarations
wherein you declaim all things you dislike in Nova Roma as the
machinations of the Boni. It's just not true, and you look foolish.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

---Salve Gn Equiti Marine, Salvete Omnes:

I don't think any one of us, with respect, knows 'for sure' what
clandestine political (religious or other) groups exist among the NR
citizenry; but history has a tendency to repeat itself...maybe not
with the *exact* same membership roster or even the same name perhaps,
but with the same old, same old....


A rose by any other name.........


That the Praetrix might entertain the possibility that this whole mess
might have political motivations is a perfectly reasonable train of
thought, in my view.


I am forced to think along these lines myself. I have been a friend
of M. Hortensia Maior for almost 3 years, and I return after a brief
absence, to discover, that perhaps this is perhaps not so anymore
(from her perspective, not mine)
Unfortunate.

Why else would she have a sudden hate-on for me, if it weren't
politically motivated or influenced, and/or that someone has planted
such a large seed of threat in her otherwise typical syncretic
appreciation of the matters at hand?
It is such a radical change of attitude on her part toward so many
people for it to be personal, is all.


I do feel that it is in the best interests of all that we drop
discussion of the particulars of this case, pending legal settlement.
Although we must keep in mind, (and I've read some posts which seem to
indicate confusion in this regard)...the Praetores are not the ones
who have laid the charge....they must report the charges and are
responsible for making sure due legal process is followed. and by this
I am not undermining the lawful right of an actor over a reus.

And the Tribunes have no place in an intercessio in this proceeding,
that I can see.

Valete,
Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Praetrix,
>
> "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> writes:
>
> [....]
> > maybe an eviction order from the
> > most hardcore of the Boni: leave NR!, perhaps?
>
> Please retract that. It's utter nonsense to suggest that Marca
> Hortensia has ever acted as a mouthpiece for the (now defunct) Boni.
> She is many things, but she was never, ever, a Bonus.
>
> Furthermore, I strongly recommend you give up your public declarations
> wherein you declaim all things you dislike in Nova Roma as the
> machinations of the Boni. It's just not true, and you look foolish.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

Maior Straboni sal;
dear Po, I am your friend and have not retracted my
friendship. And I certainly don't hate you I have never written a word
against you. So I do hope you read this.

If I were a member of the notorious political group the Boni, dear
Maximus would not be posting legal advice that does not help me;-)
'nuff said?
bene vale
Maior

, and I return after a brief

> absence, to discover, that perhaps this is perhaps not so anymore
> (from her perspective, not mine)
> Unfortunate.
>
> Why else would she have a sudden hate-on for me, if it weren't
> politically motivated or influenced, and/or that someone has planted
> such a large seed of threat in her otherwise typical syncretic
> appreciation of the matters at hand?
> > >
>

Salve Pompeia Minucia,

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:

> But is this arrangement ok with the actor?

I will accept it, yes.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salvete,



When I first joined this ML I pictured many of the citizens here to
be wizend scholars.

The idea of these people even glimpsing a South Park episode would
bring to mind images of monocles or reading glasses popping off,
mustachios or beards bristling....many exclamations of "What
What?!" "My word!" or "Oh dear!" And then nervously running their
hands over their cardigan sweaters or tweed coats to smooth wrinkles
that arent there.

It has been nice to find good humor here in many cases. (and fellow
South Park fans)


Vale,

Ya....MARCAHHH! Ma buh ga...Marcah!

And the Lords of the Underworld!

Salve,

I love South Park, I have the enitre sound track to the South Park Movie memorized.

Care to name your favourite episode?

I love the one with when they pretend to be samurai anime characters. But I have to say my favourite would be the World of Warcraft episode, hehe.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] South Park


Salvete,

When I first joined this ML I pictured many of the citizens here to
be wizend scholars.

The idea of these people even glimpsing a South Park episode would
bring to mind images of monocles or reading glasses popping off,
mustachios or beards bristling....many exclamations of "What
What?!" "My word!" or "Oh dear!" And then nervously running their
hands over their cardigan sweaters or tweed coats to smooth wrinkles
that arent there.

It has been nice to find good humor here in many cases. (and fellow
South Park fans)

Vale,

Ya....MARCAHHH! Ma buh ga...Marcah!

And the Lords of the Underworld!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato M. Lucretio Agricolae sal.

Salve Agricole.

I understand and certainly respect your reticence, but would point out
that the lex Constitutiva itself uses this phrase,

"when the spirit and / or letter of this Constitution or
legally-enacted edicta or decreta, Senatus Consulta or leges are being
violated thereby" (lex Constitutiva IV.A.7.a),

in the terms under which a tribune may pronounce intercessio. As the
praetors stand above the tribunes in auctoritas and have imperium
within the administration of the law, I think that this is acceptable
and logical term with which to issue the edict.

However, you are correct regarding the phrase "common civility", and
as one who has always demanded that our official acts should be as
clear and precise as possible, I will re-issue the edict without that
phrase.

Ad omnes: as the actor involved has indicated, compliance with the
edict is an acceptable alternative to the continuation of his lawsuit
against the reus.

Vale et valete,

Cato

Salve,

2006 was last year.


Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Equitius Cato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:53 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] EX OFFICIIS C.E.CATONIS A.T. SCHOLASTICAE PRAET. ET CENS. K.F.B.MODIANI


EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI PRAETORE

The earlier version of this edict is withdrawn, and the following
edict shall take its place, effective immediately:

Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.

We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic in
suggesting that citizens who have private religious beliefs be either
forced to denounce them or face expulsion from the Republic, and that
magistrates be forced to renounce their private religious beliefs. We
find this attitude to be contrary to every possible consideration for
the rights guaranteed to our citizens and repugnant to the sense of
community that the Republic strives to create and foster. We therefore
require and charge her to apologize publicly for having offended the
sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates of the Republic and
their various Gods.

We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
New Year.

Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
Galerio Paulino coss.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato A. Minuciae Marcellae sal.

Salve Minucia Marcella.

We finally have found more common ground! You are correct, and I will
in turn correct the date.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella" <annia@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> 2006 was last year.
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Equitius Cato
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:53 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] EX OFFICIIS C.E.CATONIS A.T. SCHOLASTICAE

PRAET. ET CENS. K.F.B.MODIANI

>
>
> EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI PRAETORE
>
> The earlier version of this edict is withdrawn, and the following
> edict shall take its place, effective immediately:
>
> Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
> censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>
> We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
> charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
> her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic in
> suggesting that citizens who have private religious beliefs be either
> forced to denounce them or face expulsion from the Republic, and that
> magistrates be forced to renounce their private religious beliefs. We
> find this attitude to be contrary to every possible consideration for
> the rights guaranteed to our citizens and repugnant to the sense of
> community that the Republic strives to create and foster. We therefore
> require and charge her to apologize publicly for having offended the
> sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates of the Republic and
> their various Gods.
>
> We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
> US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
> December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
> New Year.
>
> Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
> Galerio Paulino coss.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI PRAETORE

The earlier version of this edict is withdrawn, and the following
edict shall take its place, effective immediately:



Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.

We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic in
suggesting that citizens who have private religious beliefs be either
forced to denounce them or face expulsion from the Republic, and that
magistrates be forced to renounce their private religious beliefs. We
find this attitude to be contrary to every possible consideration for
the rights guaranteed to our citizens and repugnant to the sense of
community that the Republic strives to create and foster. We therefore
require and charge her to apologize publicly for having offended the
sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates of the Republic and
their various Gods.

We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
December 2007) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
New Year.

Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
Galerio Paulino coss.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit

I love the WoW episode... especially the, "I'm not an artard," part..
and the "what do we do now," "We play the game." The anime episode
was great too.

I also liked the LoTR episode...

What they really need is a Nova Roma episode. There needs to be a
Nova Roma Southpark....

I could just imagine...

[Stan, Kyle, Cartman, and Kenny are waiting for the bus...]

Cartman: I'em gonna run for quaestor.
Stan: You can't, fat ass, you're too young.
Cartman: I told them I was 30, and no one checked.
Kyle: You can't do that, you can't lie. Thats against the virtues!
Cartman: HEY! Don't you rat me out of &*@# Je...
Kyle: You can't say that!

[Later in the episode...]

Cartman: Screw you guys! I created my own group and I was elected
dictator, and you will respect my authoritE.
Stan: You can't do that.
Cartman: I can! And I did, and my group is better....

[And at the end...]

Stan: And what we learned is that we are all one big dysfunctional
Roman family.

---

Somehow someone is going to have to kill Kenny.... m'kay.

Speaking of Southpark... I have several episodes saved on my DVR, I
think I'll go and watch 'em. M'kay.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 10:47 PM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I love South Park, I have the enitre sound track to the South Park Movie
> memorized.
>
> Care to name your favourite episode?
>
> I love the one with when they pretend to be samurai anime characters. But I
> have to say my favourite would be the World of Warcraft episode, hehe.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella

OSD Cato

Salvete omnes.

I'd like to echo a thought spoken here earlier - by Gaia Iulia Agrippa
I think - regarding the idea of leaving the Respublica.

There's a whole new crop of magistrates coming in, and I am not going
to be one of them. So if you're considering leaving because of my
actions or words, please, seriously, re-consider. You are not giving
the Respublica a fair shake if you do so. There is a lot of good
stuff around being done by all kinds of people - even me, believe it
or not - so I think that any thoughts of leaving because of the latest
in the "J Wars" is premature.

I say stuff that pisses off just about everybody at one time or
another, and while I recognize this, I cannot - some may say *will*
not - change my nature: I once again freely admit that I am grumpy,
opinionated, and very very stubborn.

So, if it helps, just put me on "ignore" and enjoy the rest, because
it really is worth it.

Valete,

Cato

Id have to say the one where Chefs father keeps telling the story
about "The Lochness monsta!"

There are tons of them that I love though.

M.H.A.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella"
<annia@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> I love South Park, I have the enitre sound track to the South Park

Movie memorized.

>
> Care to name your favourite episode?
>
> I love the one with when they pretend to be samurai anime

characters. But I have to say my favourite would be the World of
Warcraft episode, hehe.

>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:45 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] South Park
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> When I first joined this ML I pictured many of the citizens here

to

> be wizend scholars.
>
> The idea of these people even glimpsing a South Park episode

would

> bring to mind images of monocles or reading glasses popping off,
> mustachios or beards bristling....many exclamations of "What
> What?!" "My word!" or "Oh dear!" And then nervously running

their

> hands over their cardigan sweaters or tweed coats to smooth

wrinkles

> that arent there.
>
> It has been nice to find good humor here in many cases. (and

fellow

> South Park fans)
>
> Vale,
>
> Ya....MARCAHHH! Ma buh ga...Marcah!
>
> And the Lords of the Underworld!
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

LOL! Bravo!

Id like to see the full script for that episode. Very funny.

M.H.A.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit
>
> I love the WoW episode... especially the, "I'm not an artard,"

part..

> and the "what do we do now," "We play the game." The anime

episode

> was great too.
>
> I also liked the LoTR episode...
>
> What they really need is a Nova Roma episode. There needs to be a
> Nova Roma Southpark....
>
> I could just imagine...
>
> [Stan, Kyle, Cartman, and Kenny are waiting for the bus...]
>
> Cartman: I'em gonna run for quaestor.
> Stan: You can't, fat ass, you're too young.
> Cartman: I told them I was 30, and no one checked.
> Kyle: You can't do that, you can't lie. Thats against the

virtues!

> Cartman: HEY! Don't you rat me out of &*@# Je...
> Kyle: You can't say that!
>
> [Later in the episode...]
>
> Cartman: Screw you guys! I created my own group and I was elected
> dictator, and you will respect my authoritE.
> Stan: You can't do that.
> Cartman: I can! And I did, and my group is better....
>
> [And at the end...]
>
> Stan: And what we learned is that we are all one big dysfunctional
> Roman family.
>
> ---
>
> Somehow someone is going to have to kill Kenny.... m'kay.
>
> Speaking of Southpark... I have several episodes saved on my DVR, I
> think I'll go and watch 'em. M'kay.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>
>
> On Dec 28, 2007 10:47 PM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I love South Park, I have the enitre sound track to the South

Park Movie

> > memorized.
> >
> > Care to name your favourite episode?
> >
> > I love the one with when they pretend to be samurai anime

characters. But I

> > have to say my favourite would be the World of Warcraft episode,

hehe.

> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Annia Minucia Marcella
>

Salve,

If the only problem with her remarks is that they "offended the
sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates" then I'd like to know if Nova Roma gives it's citizens the right to not be offended.

I see this entire thing as a way of limiting free speech, which I find abhorrent. And if this is the Nova Roma way(it certainly isn't the Roman Way), then I'd have to seriously consider my membership here for the first time in years.

Free speech includes speech that offends. So we either have it, or we don't.

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
* Noam Chomsky

Free speech is intended to protect the controversial and even outrageous word; and not just comforting platitudes too mundane to need protection.
- Colin Powell

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers

Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular.
Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Equitius Cato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] EX OFFICIIS C.E.CATONIS A.T. SCHOLASTICAE PRAET. ET CENS. K.F.B.MODIANI


EX OFFICIO GAI EQUITI CATONI PRAETORE

The earlier version of this edict is withdrawn, and the following
edict shall take its place, effective immediately:

Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.

We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic in
suggesting that citizens who have private religious beliefs be either
forced to denounce them or face expulsion from the Republic, and that
magistrates be forced to renounce their private religious beliefs. We
find this attitude to be contrary to every possible consideration for
the rights guaranteed to our citizens and repugnant to the sense of
community that the Republic strives to create and foster. We therefore
require and charge her to apologize publicly for having offended the
sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates of the Republic and
their various Gods.

We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
December 2007) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
New Year.

Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
Galerio Paulino coss.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

Can I get tree-fitty?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:19 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: South Park


Id have to say the one where Chefs father keeps telling the story
about "The Lochness monsta!"

There are tons of them that I love though.

M.H.A.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella"
<annia@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I love South Park, I have the enitre sound track to the South Park
Movie memorized.
>
> Care to name your favourite episode?
>
> I love the one with when they pretend to be samurai anime
characters. But I have to say my favourite would be the World of
Warcraft episode, hehe.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 9:45 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] South Park
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> When I first joined this ML I pictured many of the citizens here
to
> be wizend scholars.
>
> The idea of these people even glimpsing a South Park episode
would
> bring to mind images of monocles or reading glasses popping off,
> mustachios or beards bristling....many exclamations of "What
> What?!" "My word!" or "Oh dear!" And then nervously running
their
> hands over their cardigan sweaters or tweed coats to smooth
wrinkles
> that arent there.
>
> It has been nice to find good humor here in many cases. (and
fellow
> South Park fans)
>
> Vale,
>
> Ya....MARCAHHH! Ma buh ga...Marcah!
>
> And the Lords of the Underworld!
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I could say the very same thing about me. Although, I'm probably not as grumpy and I usually get over things pretty quickly, I rarely keep a grudge.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Equitius Cato
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:21 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A New Start, or Just Because You Can't Stand Cato Doesn't Mean You Should Leave


I say stuff that pisses off just about everybody at one time or
another, and while I recognize this, I cannot - some may say *will*
not - change my nature: I once again freely admit that I am grumpy,
opinionated, and very very stubborn.

So, if it helps, just put me on "ignore" and enjoy the rest, because
it really is worth it.

Valete,

Cato





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marcella,

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:

[...]

> If the only problem with her remarks is that they "offended the
> sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates"

It's not. At least not as I see things. The petition I submitted to
the praetors was predicated on the provision of the Lex Salicia
Poenalis which discusses offenses against piety. In particular, I
concluded that M. Hortensia engaged in a pattern of hostility against
an identifiable group of Nova Roman citizens because of their piety.
That sort of religious bigotry is explicitly forbidden by our laws,
and likewise by the laws of almost all modern democracies.

Hortensia has, in fact, advocated for a number of unconstitutional
things here in the forum. I have no idea how she intends to take an
oath of office to support and defend the constitution of Nova Roma
when she's so openly inimical to it.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> s.p.d.
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> What you have shown is that you are not impartial when it comes to
> Marca Hortensia Maior. Your animosity towards her is legion.
>
> ATS: My feelings toward her, or anyone, are not relevant to this issue.
> We have citizens denying what is written in black and white right here in the
> Forum, and that must be answered. One must consider the source when remarks
> are made; is the speaker/writer trustworthy, reliable, honest, even-tempered,
> etc., or is there a history of temperamental outbursts or something else which
> in certain contexts at least would impair one¹s trust in that person?
>
> Next
> years praetores should handle the petitio actionis.
>
> ATS: The law requires that we handle this. Secondly, any suggestion that
> we/I cannot be fair is an insult to my/our integrity. Earlier this year we
> had a legal matter involving QFM and KFBQ, in which the the latter was the
> reus and the former the actor. Perhaps Cato and/or I might have preferred
> that those roles be reversed, or that the particular issues in this case not
> be dealt with in public, or that the whole thing had been forgotten, but we
> would have handled that case fairly no matter what the situation was or who
> the participants were. That issue was settled without going to trial, but if
> it had gone to trial, we would have laid aside our personal feelings and
> conducted the proceedings in accordance with the law. When I ran for
> praetrix, I said that I would be fair if any trials would be required, and I
> intend to be. I am not prey to the ungoverned emotional outbursts which
> characterize the behavior of some of our citizens, and do not suffer from
> these strong and uncontrolled emotions. My cerebral cortex is still working,
> and keeps the limbic system in its place. As you are aware, we are attempting
> to settle this matter without going to trial, but in parallel we are also
> going to proceed in accordance with the law.
>
> In any case, the praetores do not ascertain the guilt or innocence of the
> accused; the iudices do. We merely make the arrangements.
>
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> On Dec 28, 2007 5:45 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
>> >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae
>> > voluntatis
>>> > > S.P.D.
>
>>> > > Can we cut the melodrama?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: I am not a melodramatic, or dramatic, or hyperemotional, person.
>>> > > Unlike Hortensia and others, I have a calm temperament. As A.
>>> Sempronius
>>> > > Regulus noted, there is a fine concept, hesychia. Hesychia kalon.
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex officio praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae


A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

E lege Salicia Iudiciaria, petitionem actionis Cn. Equiti Marini
accipiendum esse decrevi.

In accordance with the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, I have determined that
the petitio actionis of Cn. Equitius Marinus must be accepted.

Verba petitionis infra scripta sunt:

The text of the petition is written below:



Petitio Actionis against M. Hortensia Maior for violation of the Lex
Salicia Poenalis provision against CONTVMELIA PIETATE.

The law specifies:

"Whoever incites in another person hatred, despite or enmity towards a
person or group on the basis of the religious beliefs or practices of
that person or group, or who in any other way infringes the freedom of
another person to hold religious beliefs or to engage in religious
teaching, practice, worship or observance, shall make a DECLARATIO
PVBLICA and may also be moderated as in paragraph XIV.B. above."

As evidence of her violation of this provision of the law, I offer
these posts to the Nova-Roma mailing list:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54034
54034 "So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
superstitio."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54021
54021 "Maybe we need to introduce into the oath of office for
magistrates: "I, (enter legal the Roman name here) swear to uphold
and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion. 'AND I abjure all superstitio privately and
publically'"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53970
53970 "if you post Christian propaganda expect Roman propaganda
about your superstitio"

There are many, many other examples I can cite, but I think these are
sufficient to prove the charge and obtain an order that she be placed
on moderation and make a declaratio publica renouncing her statements.

Valete,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

=======

Verba Legis Saliciae Poenalis sequuntur:

The [relevant] text of the Lex Salicia Poenalis follows:



I. Any citizen of Nova Roma shall be able to bring an action against
another citizen of Nova Roma. The plaintiff shall be addressed in this law
as "actor". The defendant shall be addressed as "reus".


<omissis>

The praetor shall decide, within 72 hours, if the petitio actionis shall
be presented to a court or if it shall be dismissed. A praetor can dismiss a
petitio actionis if and only if one of the following cases applies:

A. The praetor has no competence in the issue.

Example: a praetor can not mediate between two foreign parties, for his
competence is limited to the citizens of Nova Roma.

B. The parties are not sui iuris in Nova Roma.

Example: a minor can not play the part of an actor.

C. The claim is incongruent.

Example: "Ticius must be expelled from Nova Roma because he is bearded" is
an incongruent claim, for it is not supported by law, precedent or common
sense.

=======


Nulla ratione in lege data qua de causa petitionem dimittere solvereve
liceat, eam accipio.

There being no reason given in the law why the petitio actionis may be
dismissed, I accept it.

Datum sub manu mea a.d. V. Kal. Ian. MMDCCLX A. V. C. L. Arminio
Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.

Given under my hand December 28th, 2007 in the consulship of L. Arminius
Faustus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Just because you took what she said in the extreme doesn't mean she broke a law. It just means she offended you and you're getting back at her using a petitio, instead of just rebutting her with your wit.

Did you bother to ask her if she really means to try to get christians banned from nova roma?

How about this:

Marines should shut up and GTFO. You gonna sue me now?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] EX OFFICIIS C.E.CATONIS A.T. SCHOLASTICAE PRAET.ET CENS. K.F.B.MODIANI


Salve Marcella,

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:

[...]
> If the only problem with her remarks is that they "offended the
> sensibilities of the citizens and magistrates"

It's not. At least not as I see things. The petition I submitted to
the praetors was predicated on the provision of the Lex Salicia
Poenalis which discusses offenses against piety. In particular, I
concluded that M. Hortensia engaged in a pattern of hostility against
an identifiable group of Nova Roman citizens because of their piety.
That sort of religious bigotry is explicitly forbidden by our laws,
and likewise by the laws of almost all modern democracies.

Hortensia has, in fact, advocated for a number of unconstitutional
things here in the forum. I have no idea how she intends to take an
oath of office to support and defend the constitution of Nova Roma
when she's so openly inimical to it.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

what about this:

"The reus acted in exercise of his legal rights. " - Lex Salicia poenalis, 1.6.3

Is Free Speech a right?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: A. Tullia Scholastica
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] De petitione actionis


Ex officio praetricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

E lege Salicia Iudiciaria, petitionem actionis Cn. Equiti Marini
accipiendum esse decrevi.

In accordance with the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, I have determined that
the petitio actionis of Cn. Equitius Marinus must be accepted.

Verba petitionis infra scripta sunt:

The text of the petition is written below:

Petitio Actionis against M. Hortensia Maior for violation of the Lex
Salicia Poenalis provision against CONTVMELIA PIETATE.

The law specifies:

"Whoever incites in another person hatred, despite or enmity towards a
person or group on the basis of the religious beliefs or practices of
that person or group, or who in any other way infringes the freedom of
another person to hold religious beliefs or to engage in religious
teaching, practice, worship or observance, shall make a DECLARATIO
PVBLICA and may also be moderated as in paragraph XIV.B. above."

As evidence of her violation of this provision of the law, I offer
these posts to the Nova-Roma mailing list:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54034
54034 "So we could historically expell Christians say for a month, if we
feel aggrieved or more radically ask them to renounce their
superstitio."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54021
54021 "Maybe we need to introduce into the oath of office for
magistrates: "I, (enter legal the Roman name here) swear to uphold
and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion. 'AND I abjure all superstitio privately and
publically'"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53970
53970 "if you post Christian propaganda expect Roman propaganda
about your superstitio"

There are many, many other examples I can cite, but I think these are
sufficient to prove the charge and obtain an order that she be placed
on moderation and make a declaratio publica renouncing her statements.

Valete,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

=======

Verba Legis Saliciae Poenalis sequuntur:

The [relevant] text of the Lex Salicia Poenalis follows:

I. Any citizen of Nova Roma shall be able to bring an action against
another citizen of Nova Roma. The plaintiff shall be addressed in this law
as "actor". The defendant shall be addressed as "reus".

<omissis>

The praetor shall decide, within 72 hours, if the petitio actionis shall
be presented to a court or if it shall be dismissed. A praetor can dismiss a
petitio actionis if and only if one of the following cases applies:

A. The praetor has no competence in the issue.

Example: a praetor can not mediate between two foreign parties, for his
competence is limited to the citizens of Nova Roma.

B. The parties are not sui iuris in Nova Roma.

Example: a minor can not play the part of an actor.

C. The claim is incongruent.

Example: "Ticius must be expelled from Nova Roma because he is bearded" is
an incongruent claim, for it is not supported by law, precedent or common
sense.

=======

Nulla ratione in lege data qua de causa petitionem dimittere solvereve
liceat, eam accipio.

There being no reason given in the law why the petitio actionis may be
dismissed, I accept it.

Datum sub manu mea a.d. V. Kal. Ian. MMDCCLX A. V. C. L. Arminio
Fausto Ti. Galerio Paulino coss.

Given under my hand December 28th, 2007 in the consulship of L. Arminius
Faustus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Marines should shut up and GTFO. You gonna sue me now?"

Perhaps not... but I'm wondering how much support you'll have for
prorogation in the senate.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 11:53 PM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Just because you took what she said in the extreme doesn't mean she broke a
> law. It just means she offended you and you're getting back at her using a
> petitio, instead of just rebutting her with your wit.
>
> Did you bother to ask her if she really means to try to get christians
> banned from nova roma?
>
> How about this:
>
> Marines should shut up and GTFO. You gonna sue me now?
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.D.
>
>
> Salvete!
>
> I think these praetors have a conflict of interest in this case and
> the next year's praetors should handle it.
>
> ATS: Apart from the fact that this is legally impossible, it happens that
> you are dead wrong. We laid aside our feelings earlier, and can surely do it
> again. Neither of us is prey to the emotional tides which drive the behavior
> of some of the participants here. Like judges in real life, we deal with
> legal matters in accordance with the law, not with some childish emotions.
>
> Valete,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gaius
> Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
>> > censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>> >
>> > We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
>> > charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
>> > her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
>> > of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
>> > religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
>> > from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
>> > private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
>> > every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
>> > and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
>> > create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
>> > publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
>> > magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.
>> >
>> > We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
>> > US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
>> > December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
>> > New Year.
>> >
>> > Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
>> > Galerio Paulino coss.
>> >
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54215;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

My experience of A. Tullia Scholastica's character (as well as my
intuition) would suggest that she speaks the truth, and that she is
perfectly capable of doing her duty as Praetrix in this matter.

Valete,

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae

voluntatis

> > s.p.d.
> >
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem dicit
> >
> > What you have shown is that you are not impartial when it comes

to

> > Marca Hortensia Maior. Your animosity towards her is legion.
> >
> > ATS: My feelings toward her, or anyone, are not relevant to

this issue.

> > We have citizens denying what is written in black and white

right here in the

> > Forum, and that must be answered. One must consider the source

when remarks

> > are made; is the speaker/writer trustworthy, reliable, honest,

even-tempered,

> > etc., or is there a history of temperamental outbursts or

something else which

> > in certain contexts at least would impair one¹s trust in that

person?

> >
> > Next
> > years praetores should handle the petitio actionis.
> >
> > ATS: The law requires that we handle this. Secondly, any

suggestion that

> > we/I cannot be fair is an insult to my/our integrity. Earlier

this year we

> > had a legal matter involving QFM and KFBQ, in which the the

latter was the

> > reus and the former the actor. Perhaps Cato and/or I might have

preferred

> > that those roles be reversed, or that the particular issues in

this case not

> > be dealt with in public, or that the whole thing had been

forgotten, but we

> > would have handled that case fairly no matter what the situation

was or who

> > the participants were. That issue was settled without going to

trial, but if

> > it had gone to trial, we would have laid aside our personal

feelings and

> > conducted the proceedings in accordance with the law. When I

ran for

> > praetrix, I said that I would be fair if any trials would be

required, and I

> > intend to be. I am not prey to the ungoverned emotional

outbursts which

> > characterize the behavior of some of our citizens, and do not

suffer from

> > these strong and uncontrolled emotions. My cerebral cortex is

still working,

> > and keeps the limbic system in its place. As you are aware, we

are attempting

> > to settle this matter without going to trial, but in parallel we

are also

> > going to proceed in accordance with the law.
> >
> > In any case, the praetores do not ascertain the guilt or

innocence of the

> > accused; the iudices do. We merely make the arrangements.
> >
> >
> > Vale:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> > On Dec 28, 2007 5:45 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> > <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Anniae Minuciae Marcellae quiritibus

bonae

> >> > voluntatis
> >>> > > S.P.D.
> >
> >>> > > Can we cut the melodrama?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ATS: I am not a melodramatic, or dramatic, or

hyperemotional, person.

> >>> > > Unlike Hortensia and others, I have a calm temperament.

As A.

> >>> Sempronius
> >>> > > Regulus noted, there is a fine concept, hesychia.

Hesychia kalon.

> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> ---P. Minucia A. Tulliae Scholasticae G. Equitiae Catoni Praetoribus
> S.P.D.
>
> Without prejudice.......talking 'law' here
>
> I have been absent for a bit, so please excuse me if I have missed
> something.
>
> But is this arrangement ok with the actor?
>
> ATS: Yes, it is. We have been conferring in private.
>
> I am not judging your good intentions, and at the *end of the day*,
> the formula would likely amount to a public apology from the reus, but
> in a settlement of sorts outside court, ie, outside the Leges
> Saliciae, would this not have to involve the consent of the actor, who
> laid the charge in the first place?
>
> ATS: Yes, it would certainly seem that that is necessary. We are working
> on an amicable arrangement, but in the meantime, and for educational purposes,
> will proceed in accordance with the laws.
>
> I apologize again in advance if I have missed something.
>
> ATS: You haven¹t, unless you mean that you missed our private
> exchanges...but that might require a macroworld court order or a lot of cyber
> expertise...
>
> Valete
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gaius
> Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ex Officiis C. Equiti Catonis A. Tulliae Scholasticae praetorum et
>> > censoris K. Fabi Buteonis Modiani.
>> >
>> > We, the praetors and a censor of the Republic, hereby require and
>> > charge that the citizen Marca Hortensia Maior publicly acknowledge
>> > her violation of the spirit and letter of the laws of the Republic and
>> > of common civility in suggesting that citizens who have private
>> > religious beliefs be either forced to denounce them or face expulsion
>> > from the Republic, and that magistrates be forced to renounce their
>> > private religious beliefs. We find this attitude to be contrary to
>> > every possible consideration for the rights guaranteed to our citizens
>> > and repugnant to the sense of community that the Republic strives to
>> > create and foster. We therefore require and charge her to apologize
>> > publicly for having offended the sensibilities of the citizens and
>> > magistrates of the Republic and their various Gods.
>> >
>> > We require and charge her to obey this edict prior to 5.59 PM Eastern
>> > US Time (11.59 PM Rome Time) on pridie Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (31
>> > December 2006) in order that this issue may be laid to rest before the
>> > New Year.
>> >
>> > Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. V Kal. Ian. L. Arminio Fausto Ti.
>> > Galerio Paulino coss.
>> >
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54215;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> ---Salve Gn Equiti Marine, Salvete Omnes:
>
> I don't think any one of us, with respect, knows 'for sure' what
> clandestine political (religious or other) groups exist among the NR
> citizenry; but history has a tendency to repeat itself...maybe not
> with the *exact* same membership roster or even the same name perhaps,
> but with the same old, same old....
>
> A rose by any other name.........
>
> ATS: Perhaps the reports of the Boni demise are greatly exaggerated.
>
> That the Praetrix might entertain the possibility that this whole mess
> might have political motivations is a perfectly reasonable train of
> thought, in my view.
>
> ATS: It may not be politically motivated, since Hortensia was never in
> their fold, but there are suspicious similarities.
>
> I am forced to think along these lines myself. I have been a friend
> of M. Hortensia Maior for almost 3 years, and I return after a brief
> absence, to discover, that perhaps this is perhaps not so anymore
> (from her perspective, not mine)
>
> ATS: She used to be my friend, too, but you saw what she wrote.
>
>
> Unfortunate.
>
> Why else would she have a sudden hate-on for me, if it weren't
> politically motivated or influenced, and/or that someone has planted
> such a large seed of threat in her otherwise typical syncretic
> appreciation of the matters at hand?
> It is such a radical change of attitude on her part toward so many
> people for it to be personal, is all.
>
> I do feel that it is in the best interests of all that we drop
> discussion of the particulars of this case, pending legal settlement.
> Although we must keep in mind, (and I've read some posts which seem to
> indicate confusion in this regard)...
>
> ATS: That is an understatement, o former praetrix. (sole only former
> praetrix, if I am not mistaken)
>
>
> the Praetores are not the ones
> who have laid the charge....they must report the charges and are
> responsible for making sure due legal process is followed.
>
> ATS: Exactly. We are not judging anyone¹s guilt or innocence, even if
> this or anything else came to trial. That is why I encourage reading at least
> the most important of the laws.
>
> and by this
> I am not undermining the lawful right of an actor over a reus.
>
> And the Tribunes have no place in an intercessio in this proceeding,
> that I can see.
>
> ATS: They have none whatsoever. None of them attempted to intervene in
> the action earlier this year, and none should this year. This does not fall
> within tribunician powers.
>
> Valete,
> Pompeia
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, Marine, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
>
>
> Salve Praetrix,
>
> "A. Tullia Scholastica" > writes:
>
> [....]
>> > maybe an eviction order from the
>> > most hardcore of the Boni: leave NR!, perhaps?
>
> Please retract that. It's utter nonsense to suggest that Marca
> Hortensia has ever acted as a mouthpiece for the (now defunct) Boni.
>
> ATS: That is a long remove from what I said. Certainly she did not act
> as their mouthpiece.
>
>
> She is many things, but she was never, ever, a Bonus.
>
> ATS: Of that I am equally sure. Diana may have been a Bona, but
> Hortensia was not, and to the best of my knowledge, is not.
>
> Furthermore, I strongly recommend you give up your public declarations
> wherein you declaim all things you dislike in Nova Roma as the
> machinations of the Boni.
>
> ATS: Now, that is another misreading of my remarks. Besides, if the Boni
> were defunct, how could they be involved in machinations? Do I even dislike
> things in Nova Roma? Would I stay here if I did? Probably not, as this is a
> time-consuming operation, but one which has its rewards. For me, NR has been
> a wonderful learning experience...not without some bumps in the road, however.
>
>
> It's just not true, and you look foolish.
>
> ATS: It isn¹t true, but thinking that that¹s what I said is also not
> true.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54091;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

That doesn't matter much to me. I'd rather someone better suited to politicking and diplomacy take the job(as you can see, I lack both, but I try the best I can). The only reason I am governor is because no one else volunteered and I didn't want Nova Britannia to have no governor.

All that aside, my point is, people say things in here all the time that offend people(those stupid political flame wars kept me away from the ML for the longest time), and if none of them were moderated then neither should Maior. Obviously I don't really want marines out of nova roma(Marines are my fav out of all military branches, especially when they wear those dress uniforms), but does that stop someone from making a petitio just because they can? I do not believe Maior was serious in her suggestion to rid ourselves of annoying christians(after all, she'd have to renounce judaism as well if those "suggestions" were rules), just as I wasn't serious, just as ATS wasn't serious with the KKK cross burning thing, just as Minervalis wasn't serious asking people him as the new prophet.

Also, apologies should never be forced, because that means they probably aren't sincere. The two apologies earlier from Cato and MHA I believe to be sincere because no one asked them to do that.

I believe in Freedom of Speech, and I believe Maior still has that right.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

----- Original Message -----
From: David Kling (Modianus)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] EX OFFICIIS C.E.CATONIS A.T. SCHOLASTICAE PRAET.ET CENS. K.F.B.MODIANI


"Marines should shut up and GTFO. You gonna sue me now?"

Perhaps not... but I'm wondering how much support you'll have for
prorogation in the senate.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Dec 28, 2007 11:53 PM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Just because you took what she said in the extreme doesn't mean she broke a
> law. It just means she offended you and you're getting back at her using a
> petitio, instead of just rebutting her with your wit.
>
> Did you bother to ask her if she really means to try to get christians
> banned from nova roma?
>
> How about this:
>
> Marines should shut up and GTFO. You gonna sue me now?
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
>
>
> Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Salve Flavius Aquila.
>
> If you do not understand the law regarding the use of an intercessio,
> then you need all the advice you can get. Let me put it this way: if
> you pronounce an intercessio in this case it will be, quite simply,
> ignored, since you have no legal standing upon which to pronounce one.
>
> ATS: Exactly.
>
> This has been appropriately shown by several citizens already.
>
> ATS: Yes, and even the rea in this matter, M. Hortensia Maior, has so
> informed him, as have at least one former tribunus plebis and a former iudex
> in our only trial. Having had some correspondence with him, and seeing that
> he appears quite intelligent, I do not understand why he is persisting in the
> delusion that he can intervene in this matter.
>
>
> Perhaps you should take a look at the law, as this is a crucial
> misunderstanding for one who is a tribune. Violating the law is not a
> particularly Roman ideal.
>
> ATS: Indeed it was not, especially among the tribuni.
>
> Nor is it your, or anyone else's, decision as to the merits of the
> charges. That is why we have courts of law.
>
> ATS: Exactly. The court will decide the merit(s) of the charges if we go
> to trial, though that does not seem likely unless the rea fails to perform the
> declaratio asked of her. We will, however, proceed in accordance with the
> law.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> know that you cann--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Titus Flavius
> Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve Senator Cato,
>> >
>> > I do not need your advise what I can do, or what I can´t do ! I as
> Tribunus Plebis will do the necessary in the spirit of our Roman
> Republic and
>> > will stop these ridiculous charges against Plebeian Senator
> Hortensia Maior.
>> >
>> > Vale bene
>> > Titus Flavius Aquila
>> > Tribunus Plebis
>> > Nova Roma
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
>> > Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
>> > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 27. Dezember 2007, 18:54:51 Uhr
>> > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Stlitem nuntio
>> >
>> > Cato M. Hortensiae Maiori sal.
>> >
>> > Salve.
>> >
>> > You wrote:
>> >
>> > "My thanks to our Tribune of the Plebs, T. Flavius Aquila for his
>> > efforts to end this. He does act in the manner of the Republic."
>> >
>> > Attempting - even inadvertently - to violate the restrictions on his
>> > constitutional powers is not exactly something which should be
>> > praised, Maior. Rather you might urge him to study more carefully
>> > what he can and cannot do under the law in order to serve the
>> > Respublica more effectively.
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > Cato
>> >
>
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]