Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jan 7-23, 2008

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54646 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54647 From: Adriano Rota Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54648 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM CVRIATI-IVLI DE SCRIBAE CREATIONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54649 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Sad News On Author
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54650 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: The Official Nova Roma Calendar from Saturninus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54651 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54652 From: liviacases Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54653 From: bill segura Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54654 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54655 From: Ice Hunter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Sad News On Author
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54656 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54657 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54658 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: a. d. VI Eidus Ianuarias: Iustitiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54659 From: FAC Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54660 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54661 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54662 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54663 From: FAC Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54664 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54665 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54666 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54667 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54668 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54669 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54670 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Aed. EDICT on the law applicable in the Macellum and the resolution
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54671 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54672 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54673 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54674 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: a. d. V Eidus Ianuarias: AGONIUM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54675 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54676 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54677 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54678 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54679 From: C. Curius Saturninus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54680 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54681 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Researching "Idol-Worship"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54682 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54683 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54684 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: a. d. IIII Eidus Ianuarias: Alea iacta est
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54685 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Roman calendar, 1/10/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54686 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Researching "Idol-Worship"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54687 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54688 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54689 From: Mikko Sillanpää Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54690 From: Titus Iulius Calvus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54691 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54692 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54693 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54694 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Two alternate sources for the Kalendarivm Romanvm!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54695 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54696 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54697 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54698 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54699 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54700 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54701 From: Nabarz Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54702 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: a. d. III Eidus Ianuarius: CARMENTALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54703 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54704 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: CARMENTALIA: Ritus Carmentis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54705 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54706 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54707 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54708 From: Mikko Sillanpää Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NO WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54709 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54710 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NR Official calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54711 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54712 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54713 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NR Official calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54714 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54717 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54718 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Pridie Eidus Ianuarias
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54719 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54720 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54721 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54722 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54723 From: P. Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: You need to reconsider
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54724 From: Vedius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54725 From: Neil (L. Salix) Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Oath of Office - Quaestor L. Salix Cicero
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54727 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54728 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Rudimenta Latina class to begin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54730 From: Vedius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54731 From: C. Curius Saturninus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Cicero's court cases
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54732 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Cicero's court cases
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54733 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Intercessio on aedilician edict.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54734 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: EIDAE IANUARIAE: Feriae Iovi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54735 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Your Intercessio on aedilician edict.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54736 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: You need to reconsider
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54737 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Your Intercessio on aedilician edict.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54738 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54739 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54740 From: liviacases Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54741 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54742 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54743 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54744 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: SIX DAYS TO ROMAN CONVENTUS IN B'HAM, AL ON 01/19 & 01/20
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54745 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: AW: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54746 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: a. d. XVII Kalendas Februarias: dies natalis M. Antoni
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54747 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54748 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: a. d. XVII Kalendas Februarias: dies natalis M. Antoni
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54749 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Sacrificium Concordiae Idibus Ianuariis - Tenth Anniversary of Nova
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54750 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Festival of Concordia on the 16th January Coming Soon - Opening of t
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54751 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54752 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54753 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Oath of Office - Quaestor L. Salix Cicero
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54754 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54755 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: a. d. XVI Kalendas Februarias: CARMENTALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54756 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Let's worship Concordia! Pray to Concordia and send me your prayers!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54757 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: To all in the Far East, 1/15/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54758 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: AED. CUR. 2761 team composition (edict)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54759 From: Livia Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Consul M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus has called the Senate into se
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54760 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Edictum Gubernatorium XLV - Determina encontro regional em São Paul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54761 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Encontro de Nova Roma em São Paulo / NR Regional Meeting in São Pa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54762 From: Andreas Lachmann Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: A question about the Arminii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54763 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: a. d. XV Kal. Feb. Concordiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54764 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: TROY on BBC 7 - radio drama
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54765 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54766 From: bill segura Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: A question about the Arminii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54767 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Encontro de Nova Roma em São Paulo / NR Regional Me
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54768 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for UFMT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54769 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Religious Celebration on Dies Concordiae - Opening of the Virtual Te
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54770 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54771 From: Scott Miller Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54772 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: a. d. XVI Kal. Feb. Ara Numinis Augusti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54773 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54774 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54775 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54776 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: a. d. Kal. Feb.: feriae Iunonis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54777 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54778 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54779 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54780 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission examsfor UF
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54781 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54782 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54783 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54784 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Contact pages.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54785 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: a. d. XIIII Kal. Feb.: Sulpicia, Verticordia, and Viriplaca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54786 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54787 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54788 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: About my new you tube account and the attraction of new citizens to
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54789 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: a. d. XIII Kal. Feb.: Death of Clodius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54790 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: David Meadows explorator 10.39
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54791 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54792 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Aquila - NR's Newsletter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54793 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Re: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54794 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Historical snapshot; of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54795 From: Andreas Lachmann Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Re: A question about the Arminii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54796 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54797 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54798 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: a. d. XII Kal. Feb.: Ludi Palatini
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54799 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54800 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54801 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54802 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54803 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54804 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Book Report -- "Peter Connolly, "Greece and Rome At War,"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54805 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Roman Times Quarterly," 4th Qtr., 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54806 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Fwd: FW: Flavour - Salt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54807 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Town-Life-1
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54808 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Pliney The Elder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54809 From: Marcus Audens Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Mines and Quarries," -- "Roman Times Quarterly," 4th Qtr., 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54810 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: Book Report -- "Peter Connolly, "Greece and Rome At War,"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54811 From: Marcus Audens Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Roman Theatre," -- "Roman Times Quarterly,"-- 4th Qtr. --2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54812 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Wales: conference on Roman religion and the state
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54813 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54814 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: a. d. XI Kal. Feb: Dies natalis L. Moravi Messalae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54815 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54816 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: New member in aed. cur. team (O. Fabius Montanus) - edict mod.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54817 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Pilum Quarterly" - 4th Qtr. - 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54818 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Torsion Catapult -- "Pilum" , 4th Qtr. - 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54819 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Caltrops #2" - "Pilum" - 4th Qtr - 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54820 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Tessarius" -- "Pilum", 4th Qtr - 2007
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54821 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: a. d. X Kal. Feb.: ludi Palatini
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54822 From: andrea cologni Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Inoltra: Roman Events in Bulgaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54823 From: andrea cologni Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Roman Festival in Bulgaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54824 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54646 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salve Caesar

This great info! Thanks

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


>From: Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:45:20 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Salve Pauline,
>
> >This leads me to my main question. What modern wines, if any
>would be closest to Roman wine in nature and flavor?
>
>Romans usually drunk a different wine from the modern. Usually the wine was
>less clean and mixed with water or snow. So the alcholic volume decreased
>from 16% to 5 or 6%, I suppose the original wine without water was closer
>to a aromatic liquor of wine.
>The majority of the ancient wines, vinum atrum (red) and candidum (white),
>are present in Italy. Here we have wines similar to Falernus, volturnus,
>albanus, sabinus of latium, etc. but they suffered contaminations from
>other grapes during the centuries, so they are not egual.
>In Pompeii the local public authorities recreated the original grapes using
>ancient seeds. They created a very good roman wine using the ancient
>methods. The wines is very expansive and you could find it at
>http://www.villadeimisteri.com/index_eng.htm
>In Italy there are many private farms which produce roman wines with
>original seeds, or with recostruction of ancient grapes, on roman original
>lands and methods. I would suggest you Castello di Lispida, a producer
>close to Venice able to produce wine in doliae, the original roman method,
>the wine is very particular: http://www.lispida.com/english/vino/nostri.asp
>
>Vale
>FAC
>
>
> ___________________________________
>L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail:
>http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54647 From: Adriano Rota Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salve tutti,

dear Francesco Valenzano,

it is wrong what you write! The grapes are from the area around Pompei but far from being original.
The Pompey wine is a local wine produced after roman methods and on ancient soil but the grapes are may be less
inter crossed than others, that is all!!!!

There are no real original wine plants left (no intercrossing and further domestication) left.!!!
Being Italian myself I tell you it is a meanwhile common sales strategy of italian wineries to say their wine is original roman.
All they do is to take an old brand or tpe of wine grape and treat it the ancient way. Which is ok. But they should not say they are original.
Especially in Italy where the wine production is an over 2000 year old business there are unfortunately no original plants left. And believe me the wineries have such a hard to to compete and bring something special that they somteimes are not so serious about the truth. Which makes sense since it is an
ancient industry there.
The only grape known is the grape of the Eibling (White Wine), growing in the German Trier region. It has remained almost the way it was originally. The Roman Army had brought it there. Being a wine which did not meet the international modern standards of production and only produced by a few small farmers for a limited regional clientele, the Eibling survived all the trends of intercrossing to make it more effective and meet the taste expectations of the masses. It was never a mass wine that is why it was almost forgotten and not worth the effort.

The Italian Agritourismi are a trend to trick the tax obligations for producers and are meanwhile an industry also. To produce organic wine with ancient or medieval methods is a trend in all European Countries since at least 10 to 15 years.


Hadrianvs








----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:56:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas

Salve Caesar

This great info! Thanks

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@yahoo. it>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:45:20 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Salve Pauline,
>
> >This leads me to my main question. What modern wines, if any
>would be closest to Roman wine in nature and flavor?
>
>Romans usually drunk a different wine from the modern. Usually the wine was
>less clean and mixed with water or snow. So the alcholic volume decreased
>from 16% to 5 or 6%, I suppose the original wine without water was closer
>to a aromatic liquor of wine.
>The majority of the ancient wines, vinum atrum (red) and candidum (white),
>are present in Italy. Here we have wines similar to Falernus, volturnus,
>albanus, sabinus of latium, etc. but they suffered contaminations from
>other grapes during the centuries, so they are not egual.
>In Pompeii the local public authorities recreated the original grapes using
>ancient seeds. They created a very good roman wine using the ancient
>methods. The wines is very expansive and you could find it at
>http://www.villadei misteri.com/ index_eng. htm
>In Italy there are many private farms which produce roman wines with
>original seeds, or with recostruction of ancient grapes, on roman original
>lands and methods. I would suggest you Castello di Lispida, a producer
>close to Venice able to produce wine in doliae, the original roman method,
>the wine is very particular: http://www.lispida com/english/ vino/nostri. asp
>
>Vale
>FAC
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _____
>L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail:
>http://it.docs yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





____________________________________________________________________________________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54648 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM CVRIATI-IVLI DE SCRIBAE CREATIONE
Ex Officio Praetoris Nova Roma

Ex hoc, nos ambo praetores cives G. Iulius Adventor, M. Octavius Corvus scribas ad moderandum Forum Praecipuum Novae Romae creamus.

Nullum ius iurandum ab eis poscetur.

Hoc edictum ilico valet.

Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. VII Id. Ian. MMDCCLXI A.V.C.

M.Moravio T.Iulio cos.

---------------------------------

By this edict, we the praetors both appoint citizens G. Iulius Adventor and M. Octavius Corvus scribae as moderators of the Nova Roman Main List.

No oath shall be demanded of them.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under our hands this 7th day of January 2761 from the founding of Rome

---------------------------------

Por este edicto, nosotros los praetores nombramos a los siguientes ciudadanos: G. Iulius Adventor y M. Octavius Corvus scribae para la moderación del Foro de Nova Roma.

No se requiere juramento para ellos.

Este edicto entra en vigor inmediatamente.

Dado a 7 de enero de 2761 desde la fundación de Roma.

M. Curiatius Complutensis

M. Iulius Severus

Praetores


---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54649 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Sad News On Author
Salvete omnes,

I see that one of my favorite modern authors, George MacDonald Fraser
passed away a few days ago. I always looked forward to his Flashman and
other novels as well as his non fiction history books. I am posting
this to NR since some of the citizens I know are familiar with his
works. He will surely be missed. His details below:


http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2008/01/04/fraser-obit.html

Valete bene,

QSP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54650 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: The Official Nova Roma Calendar from Saturninus.
The calendar put out by Saturninus applies dates using the Gregorian calendar.? The CP will be using both the Julian and Gregorian calendars for dates for ludi and fasti.? Most individuals will likely continue using the Gregorian calendar dates for celebrating festivals until such time as most of the cultores deorum and citizens are ready to use the Julian calendar.? The Greek Orthodox Church continues to use the Julian calendar for its liturgical schedule and the Gregorian calendar for normal business activities.? It is not really that complicated.



Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


-----Original Message-----
From: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 1:21 pm
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Official Nova Roma Calendar from Saturninus.







P. Memmius Albucius Consuli s.d.

Beautiful ! My congratulations to Saturninus, also !

Just a question : has the calendar been certified by the Collegium
Pontificum ?

What if our CP issue a different calendar ?

Vale bene,

Albucius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVETE!
>
> I received today the Official Nova Roma Calendar, the result of an
> outstanding work of Curius Saturninus.
> It is very well structured with excellent information and nice
> pictures from the Eternal City.
> In short: a professional product from a professional producer.
> My respect for your work and my best thanks, Saturnine!
>
> More information to:
> http://www.insulaumbra.com/calendar/
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54651 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
The information that Hadrianus posted is correct.? Most of the current wine root stock in Europe comes from when America had to supply new root stock following a severe pan-European attack of phylox in the late 19th and early 20th century.



Some wild root stock has been cultivated on islands in the Aegean Sea and the modern eastern Mediterranean states.? These survived because the Ottomans eradicated vineyards in these areas during the 16th and 17th centuries & the vines went wild.? However, there is very little that is commercially viable and it is still vulnerable to the phylox since it is not the resistant varieties imported from America.



There are very few vegetable, fruit, or grain types left from the time of Rome in commerical production due to the hybridization over the last 2,000 years.? Emmer, spelt, quince, European field pea, alliums are some of the few that I am personally familiar with that are close to or dead on to pre-5th century.? The carrot that the Romans knew was white and resembled a parsnip; the rare yellow variety is medieval, and the common orange carrot is 17th century hybrid.

There used to be an organization called the Heirloom Seed Exchange that offered varieties of fruits and vegetables that dated back to the 12th century but I do not if that organization still exists.



Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


-----Original Message-----
From: Adriano Rota <adriano.rota@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas







Salve tutti,

dear Francesco Valenzano,

it is wrong what you write! The grapes are from the area around Pompei but far from being original.
The Pompey wine is a local wine produced after roman methods and on ancient soil but the grapes are may be less
inter crossed than others, that is all!!!!

There are no real original wine plants left (no intercrossing and further domestication) left.!!!
Being Italian myself I tell you it is a meanwhile common sales strategy of italian wineries to say their wine is original roman.
All they do is to take an old brand or tpe of wine grape and treat it the ancient way. Which is ok. But they should not say they are original.
Especially in Italy where the wine production is an over 2000 year old business there are unfortunately no original plants left. And believe me the wineries have such a hard to to compete and bring something special that they somteimes are not so serious about the truth. Which makes sense since it is an
ancient industry there.
The only grape known is the grape of the Eibling (White Wine), growing in the German Trier region. It has remained almost the way it was originally. The Roman Army had brought it there. Being a wine which did not meet the international modern standards of production and only produced by a few small farmers for a limited regional clientele, the Eibling survived all the trends of intercrossing to make it more effective and meet the taste expectations of the masses. It was never a mass wine that is why it was almost forgotten and not worth the effort.

The Italian Agritourismi are a trend to trick the tax obligations for producers and are meanwhile an industry also. To produce organic wine with ancient or medieval methods is a trend in all European Countries since at least 10 to 15 years.

Hadrianvs

----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:56:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas

Salve Caesar

This great info! Thanks

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@yahoo. it>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:45:20 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Salve Pauline,
>
> >This leads me to my main question. What modern wines, if any
>would be closest to Roman wine in nature and flavor?
>
>Romans usually drunk a different wine from the modern. Usually the wine was
>less clean and mixed with water or snow. So the alcholic volume decreased
>from 16% to 5 or 6%, I suppose the original wine without water was closer
>to a aromatic liquor of wine.
>The majority of the ancient wines, vinum atrum (red) and candidum (white),
>are present in Italy. Here we have wines similar to Falernus, volturnus,
>albanus, sabinus of latium, etc. but they suffered contaminations from
>other grapes during the centuries, so they are not egual.
>In Pompeii the local public authorities recreated the original grapes using
>ancient seeds. They created a very good roman wine using the ancient
>methods. The wines is very expansive and you could find it at
>http://www.villadei misteri.com/ index_eng. htm
>In Italy there are many private farms which produce roman wines with
>original seeds, or with recostruction of ancient grapes, on roman original
>lands and methods. I would suggest you Castello di Lispida, a producer
>close to Venice able to produce wine in doliae, the original roman method,
>the wine is very particular: http://www.lispida com/english/ vino/nostri. asp
>
>Vale
>FAC
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _____
>L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail:
>http://it.docs yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

__________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54652 From: liviacases Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salvete omnes,
>
> The information that Hadrianus posted is correct.? Most of the
current wine root stock in Europe comes from when America had to
supply new root stock following a severe pan-European attack of phylox
in the late 19th and early 20th century.
>
>
Actually I remember visiting a place in southern France (unfortunately
I don't remember its name) where vines are grown in a natural basin
which can be periodically flooded and drained, and are therefore from
the original pre-phyloxera stock, since phyloxera, an american
parasite which attacks vine roots, can be stamped out by total
flooding.

I also remember talking about this with some wine producers, and being
told that the root stock doesn't actually matter, because the top part
of the plant, which is joined to the root (sorry, I don't know the
proper term in English) usually belongs to some grape types that
existed before phyloxera, and it's the only part that influences the
taste.

So basically most of the vine varieties existing today are actually
the "original" ones, and some surely existed in roman times already.
So the production method is really the single most important factor in
getting a wine that's similar to roman ones.
>
> Some wild root stock has been cultivated on islands in the Aegean
Sea and the modern eastern Mediterranean states.? These survived
because the Ottomans eradicated vineyards in these areas during the
16th and 17th centuries & the vines went wild.? However, there is very
little that is commercially viable and it is still vulnerable to the
phylox since it is not the resistant varieties imported from America.
>
Hmm. So the wild grapes I ate last summer in Syros are actually
pre-phyloxera stock? They were very sweet, even if full of seeds.
Maybe next summer I'll try making wine out of them.
>
>
> There are very few vegetable, fruit, or grain types left from the
time of >Rome in commerical production due to the hybridization over
the last 2,000 >years.? Emmer, spelt, quince, European field pea,
alliums are some of the >few that I am personally familiar with that
are close to or dead on to pre-5th >century.? The carrot that the
Romans knew was white and resembled a >parsnip; the rare yellow
variety is medieval, and the common orange carrot is >17th century
hybrid.

I was going to ask Maior to try and select a white carrot variety,
since she seems to have a knack for growing vegetables, but it would
probably be superfluous because all Apicius' recipes call for carrot
OR pastinaca, and pastinaca is still widely grown in Eastern Europe.

If anyone wants to taste something resembling roman countryside
cuisine I suggest going to Tuscany, where a lot of the typical dishes
give the impression of not having changed at all during the last 5000
years.
My personal favourite is emmer and chickpeas soup. I suspect they
added pepper when first available in roman times, then never changed
the recipe again. Also the cabbage varieties they use are very similar
to ancient ones.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54653 From: bill segura Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
It is my understanding that the most common of Roman wines was an import from Syria.
Chain wine? There is a wine producer in Spain who is making wine in amphorae. He allows the natural yeast present in the grapes to ferment the wine. Just like in the good old days.
There is a section in the book Daily Lives of the Romans that gives lots of info on the subject. Modern wines are far better than those of antiquity.....besides, would you want to drink a wine with lead added? Lead dioxide powder as I remember to sweeten the wine.
Yuk!
I do produce my own wines. If someone knows where I can find clay pots to ferment I will give it a whirl.
T A Germanicus

liviacases <cases@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,
>
> The information that Hadrianus posted is correct.? Most of the
current wine root stock in Europe comes from when America had to
supply new root stock following a severe pan-European attack of phylox
in the late 19th and early 20th century.
>
>
Actually I remember visiting a place in southern France (unfortunately
I don't remember its name) where vines are grown in a natural basin
which can be periodically flooded and drained, and are therefore from
the original pre-phyloxera stock, since phyloxera, an american
parasite which attacks vine roots, can be stamped out by total
flooding.

I also remember talking about this with some wine producers, and being
told that the root stock doesn't actually matter, because the top part
of the plant, which is joined to the root (sorry, I don't know the
proper term in English) usually belongs to some grape types that
existed before phyloxera, and it's the only part that influences the
taste.

So basically most of the vine varieties existing today are actually
the "original" ones, and some surely existed in roman times already.
So the production method is really the single most important factor in
getting a wine that's similar to roman ones.
>
> Some wild root stock has been cultivated on islands in the Aegean
Sea and the modern eastern Mediterranean states.? These survived
because the Ottomans eradicated vineyards in these areas during the
16th and 17th centuries & the vines went wild.? However, there is very
little that is commercially viable and it is still vulnerable to the
phylox since it is not the resistant varieties imported from America.
>
Hmm. So the wild grapes I ate last summer in Syros are actually
pre-phyloxera stock? They were very sweet, even if full of seeds.
Maybe next summer I'll try making wine out of them.
>
>
> There are very few vegetable, fruit, or grain types left from the
time of >Rome in commerical production due to the hybridization over
the last 2,000 >years.? Emmer, spelt, quince, European field pea,
alliums are some of the >few that I am personally familiar with that
are close to or dead on to pre-5th >century.? The carrot that the
Romans knew was white and resembled a >parsnip; the rare yellow
variety is medieval, and the common orange carrot is >17th century
hybrid.

I was going to ask Maior to try and select a white carrot variety,
since she seems to have a knack for growing vegetables, but it would
probably be superfluous because all Apicius' recipes call for carrot
OR pastinaca, and pastinaca is still widely grown in Eastern Europe.

If anyone wants to taste something resembling roman countryside
cuisine I suggest going to Tuscany, where a lot of the typical dishes
give the impression of not having changed at all during the last 5000
years.
My personal favourite is emmer and chickpeas soup. I suspect they
added pepper when first available in roman times, then never changed
the recipe again. Also the cabbage varieties they use are very similar
to ancient ones.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta





Yahoo! Groups Links






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54654 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-07
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
>
> The information that Hadrianus posted is correct.? Most of the
current wine root stock in Europe comes from when America had to
supply new root stock following a severe pan-European attack of phylox
in the late 19th and early 20th century.
>
>
>
> Some wild root stock has been cultivated on islands in the Aegean
Sea and the modern eastern Mediterranean states.? These survived
because the Ottomans eradicated vineyards in these areas during the
16th and 17th centuries & the vines went wild.? However, there is very
little that is commercially viable and it is still vulnerable to the
phylox since it is not the resistant varieties imported from America.
>

>
> There are very few vegetable, fruit, or grain types left from the
time of Rome in commerical production due to the hybridization over
the last 2,000 years.? Emmer, spelt, quince, European field pea,
alliums are some of the few that I am personally familiar with that
are close to or dead on to pre-5th century.? The carrot that the
Romans knew was white and resembled a parsnip; the rare yellow variety
is medieval, and the common orange carrot is 17th century hybrid.
>
> There used to be an organization called the Heirloom Seed Exchange
that offered varieties of fruits and vegetables that dated back to the
12th century but I do not if that organization still exists.

http://www.seedsavers.org/

http://www.southernexposure.com/index.html

http://www.vegparadise.com/heirloom.html

Maine Seed Saving Network
PO Box 126
Penobscot, ME 04476
(207) 326-0751

Northeast Seed Conservancy [3]
Contact Bryan Connolly
connollybryan@...
(860) 423-8305

Seeds of Diversity [4]
Box 36, Station Q
Toronto, Ontario M4T 2C7
Canada

Seed Savers Exchange [5]
3076 North Winn Road
Decorah, Iowa 52101

Southern Exposure Seed Exchange [6]
P.O. Box 460
Mineral, VA 23117
540-894-9480
gardens@...

Southern Seed Legacy Project [7]
105A Baldwin Hall
Department of Anthropology
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30605

CORNS [Seed Exchange]
c/o Carl L. Barnes
R.R. 1, Box 32
Turpin, OK 73950-9714

Garden State Heirloom Seed Society [8]
PO Box 15
Valley Road
Delaware, NJ 07833
Seed Companies

Appalachian Heirloom Seed Conservancy
Box 519
Richmond, KY 40476
KentuckySeeds@...

Eastern Native Seed Conservancy [9]
P.O. Box 451
Great Barringtonn MA 01230
(413) 229-8316
natseeds@...

Harvest Moon Farms [10]
HC12 Box 510
Tatum, NM 88267
(505) 398-6111
customerservice@...

High Mowing Seeds [11]
76 Quarry Road
Wolcott, VT 05680
802-472-6174
orders@...

WoodPrairie Farm [12]
WoodPrairie Farm
49 Kinney Road
Bridgewater, ME 04735
orders@...






>
>
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adriano Rota <adriano.rota@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:54 pm
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve tutti,
>
> dear Francesco Valenzano,
>
> it is wrong what you write! The grapes are from the area around
Pompei but far from being original.
> The Pompey wine is a local wine produced after roman methods and on
ancient soil but the grapes are may be less
> inter crossed than others, that is all!!!!
>
> There are no real original wine plants left (no intercrossing and
further domestication) left.!!!
> Being Italian myself I tell you it is a meanwhile common sales
strategy of italian wineries to say their wine is original roman.
> All they do is to take an old brand or tpe of wine grape and treat
it the ancient way. Which is ok. But they should not say they are
original.
> Especially in Italy where the wine production is an over 2000 year
old business there are unfortunately no original plants left. And
believe me the wineries have such a hard to to compete and bring
something special that they somteimes are not so serious about the
truth. Which makes sense since it is an
> ancient industry there.
> The only grape known is the grape of the Eibling (White Wine),
growing in the German Trier region. It has remained almost the way it
was originally. The Roman Army had brought it there. Being a wine
which did not meet the international modern standards of production
and only produced by a few small farmers for a limited regional
clientele, the Eibling survived all the trends of intercrossing to
make it more effective and meet the taste expectations of the masses.
It was never a mass wine that is why it was almost forgotten and not
worth the effort.
>
> The Italian Agritourismi are a trend to trick the tax obligations
for producers and are meanwhile an industry also. To produce organic
wine with ancient or medieval methods is a trend in all European
Countries since at least 10 to 15 years.
>
> Hadrianvs
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:56:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>
> Salve Caesar
>
> This great info! Thanks
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> >From: Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@yahoo. it>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
> >Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:45:20 +0000 (GMT)
> >
> >Salve Pauline,
> >
> > >This leads me to my main question. What modern wines, if any
> >would be closest to Roman wine in nature and flavor?
> >
> >Romans usually drunk a different wine from the modern. Usually the
wine was
> >less clean and mixed with water or snow. So the alcholic volume
decreased
> >from 16% to 5 or 6%, I suppose the original wine without water was
closer
> >to a aromatic liquor of wine.
> >The majority of the ancient wines, vinum atrum (red) and candidum
(white),
> >are present in Italy. Here we have wines similar to Falernus,
volturnus,
> >albanus, sabinus of latium, etc. but they suffered contaminations from
> >other grapes during the centuries, so they are not egual.
> >In Pompeii the local public authorities recreated the original
grapes using
> >ancient seeds. They created a very good roman wine using the ancient
> >methods. The wines is very expansive and you could find it at
> >http://www.villadei misteri.com/ index_eng. htm
> >In Italy there are many private farms which produce roman wines with
> >original seeds, or with recostruction of ancient grapes, on roman
original
> >lands and methods. I would suggest you Castello di Lispida, a producer
> >close to Venice able to produce wine in doliae, the original roman
method,
> >the wine is very particular: http://www.lispida com/english/
vino/nostri. asp
> >
> >Vale
> >FAC
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _____
> >L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo!
Mail:
> >http://it.docs yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54655 From: Ice Hunter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Sad News On Author
Salve Suetoni Pauline et salvete omnes,

>I see that one of my favorite modern authors, George MacDonald Fraser
>passed away a few days ago.

I knew him for his screenplays, and he wrote some of my favorites--the Musketeer films (3,4, and Return of). He will be missed.

Vale et valete bene,
Artoria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54656 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus L. Livia Plauta

I would recommend that you consider reading A SHORT HISTORY OF WINE by Rod
Phillips (pp. 281-284):

"The outbreak of powdery mildew [*oindium found in Europe in the 1840s] was
bad enough but it was nothing compared to the phylloxera epidemic that
threatened to kill all Europe's vines and wipe out the whole wine industry in a
matter of years. The phylloxera is a small, yellow aphid, about a millimetre
long, that feeds on the roots of the vine. As it consumes the sap it infects
the root, which sells into 'galls', rather like the swellings (buboes) that
occur on humans infected by bubonic plague. As sap ceases to circulate, the
infect root shrivels and dies, leaving the vine without sustenance. The green
leaves turn yellow, wither, and fall.

"Flooding the vineyards in winter was found to control the aphids
temporarily, but it was impossible on hillsides.

"The . . . main approach involved grafting European vines on to the
rootstocks of phylloxera-tolerant American vines."

You are correct that most of the damage done to the European wine industry
in the 19th century was caused by American vines and rootstock going to
Europe. On the other hand, consider what the European diseases did to the fertile
field of the American Indians. Simple yin and yang, I guess.

I think that you will find that Tuscan cuisine has been one that has been
the most significantly altered by history considering that it has been invaded
and resided in by Goths (410-550), Lombards (530-800), East Franks (790-1000),
Germans (1000-1550), and some French & Swiss in the 15th & 16th centuries;
in addition to having tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, and other New World
products in the 19th century.

If you are looking for areas of Italy in which there have been relatively
few major changes to the cuisine, I would recommend that you consider
Basilicata, Apulia, and Calabria where the influences were those common to Rome;
namely Africa, Greece, and the Eastern Mediterranean. The Normans had relatively
little influence on the cuisine.

The historic changes in vegetable, fruit, and grains are far more prevalent
than you might realize. During the ancient and medieval periods, some root
vegetables were enormous by modern standards because taste and appearance were
less important than sheer volume of material for preservation. I have read
of radishes that could weigh five pounds, turnips ten pounds, and cabbages of
over twenty pounds. Many specific kinds of apples have been virtually
eliminated because they were limited to certain regions or because of appearance
or they could not be shipped. Most commercial apples here in the USA are
limited to about five kinds--Red & Golden Delicious, Granny Smith, Rome, and
Winesap. However, in my native state of Tennessee there are six other varieties
that are still available but are small production only; good for cider &
vinegar making, cooking, or making fruit butter.

The study of the changes in diet and food is a fascinating study. In my own
lifetime, I have seen a complete change in the breeds of hogs used to feed
America. As a boy, the pigs we butchered at my relatives' homes in
Mississippi were longer-legged, had more fat, and were sturdier. Now the pigs have
shorter legs, little fat, and have a more delicate constitution requiring better
care. It is now possible to leave pork a delicate pink when you cook it
rather than all the way through; a difference of 10-15 degrees F. on your meat
thermometer. Thirty years ago, that would risk a major bout of trichonosis.

Vale.









**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54657 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Dexter Tutori SPD,


> I have a question. When was the last deification emperor of Rome ?
>
> Thank you

The last emperor deificated was Valentinian the First (364-375). Since
he was a Christian emperor, he was deificated by the emperor Gratien
son of Valentinian.

Vale.

G.Petronius Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54658 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: a. d. VI Eidus Ianuarias: Iustitiae
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos servent cum vester.

Hodie est ante diem VI Eidus Ianuarias; haec dies comitialis est:
Iustitiae.

"Upon the sixth day before the Ides of January the Dolphin sets in
the evening, and Italy has as many days of continuous cold." ~
Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 18.64

AUC 766 / 13 CE: Dedication of the Ara Iustitae Augustae.

"If, Holy Iustitia, You are in Heaven above, I invoke Your divine
presence as my witness." ~ L. Aennaeus Seneca, Medea 439-440

The Fetiales

One of the earliest institutions related to Iustitia were the
Fetiales. According to Livy, King Ancus Marcius, a grandson of Numa
by his mother, copied the rites of the fetiales from the ancient
tribe of the Aequicoli (Livy 1.32.3-5). Virgil held instead that
King Numa borrowed the rite from the same people, (Virgil, Aen. 7.747
ff). Well before the time of Livy, the Fetiales had fallen out of
use. Thus he took some effort to explain how they were selected,
their rites, and then how they acted as heralds to other cities and
tribes. Augustus restored the sodalitas of Fetiales. The Ara
Iustitiae Augustae, like the Ara Pacis Augustae, related to intercity
relations within the empire, those relations mediated through the
office of the emperor, and then, too, with the empire's relations
with barbarian tribes. One early incident where Ancus originally used
the Fetiales is described below.

"The fetialis, veiled, wound a woolen fillet around his head. When he
has reached the frontiers of the nation from whom satisfaction is
demanded, he says, 'Hear, 0 Jupiter! Hear you borders,' naming the
particular people whose borders they are, 'Hear, 0 Justitia! I am the
public herald of the Roman People rightly and duly authorized do I
come; let confidence be placed in my words.' Then he recites the
terms of the demands and calls Jupiter to witness: 'If I am demanding
the surrender of those men or those goods, contrary to justice and
religion, suffer me nevermore to enjoy my native land.' He repeats
these words as he crosses the frontier, he repeats them to whoever
happens to be the first person he meets, he repeats them as he enters
the gates and again on entering the forum, with some slight changes
in the wording of the formula. If what he demands are not surrendered
at the expiration of thirty-three days, for that is the fixed period
of grace, he declares war in the following terms: 'Hear, 0 Jupiter,
and You Janus Quirinus, and all You heavenly Gods, and you lesser
gods of the earth and of the lower world, hear me! I call You to
witness that this people'- mentioning it by name – 'is unjust and
does not fulfill its sacred obligations. But about these matters we
must consult the elders in our own land in what way we may obtain our
rights.'

"With these words the ambassador returned to Rome for consultation.
The king forthwith consulted the Senate in words to the following
effect: 'Concerning the matters suits and causes, whereof the pater
patratus of the Roman people and Quirites has complained to the pater
patratus of the Priscus Latins, and to the people of the Priscus
Latins which matters they were bound severally to surrender,
discharge, and make good, whereas they have done none of these things-
-say what is your opinion?' He whose opinion was first asked,
replied, 'I am of the opinion that they ought to be recovered by a
just and righteous war, wherefore I give my consent and vote for it.'
Then the others were asked in order, and when the majority of those
present declared themselves of the same opinion, war was agreed upon.
It was customary for the fetialis to carry to the enemy's frontiers a
blood-smeared spear (of cornel wood) tipped with iron or burnt at the
end, and, in the presence of at least three adults, to say, 'Inasmuch
as the peoples of the Priscus Latins have been guilty of wrong
against the People of Rome and the Quirites, and inasmuch as the
People of Rome and the Quirites have ordered that there be war with
the Priscus Latins, and the Senate of the People of Rome and the
Quirites have determined and decreed that there shall be war with the
Priscus Latins, therefore I and the People of Rome, declare and make
war upon the peoples of the Priscus Latins.' With these words he
hurled his spear into their territory. This was the way in which at
that time satisfaction was demanded from the Latins and war declared,
and posterity adopted the custom." ~ Titus Livius 1.32.6-10


The thought for today is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 7.38-44:

It is not right to vex ourselves at things,
For they care nought about it.

To the immortal Gods and us give joy.

Life must be reaped like the ripe ears of corn:
One man is born; another dies.

If Gods care not for me and for my children,
There is a reason for it.

For the good is with me, and the just.

No joining others in their wailing, no violent emotion.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54659 From: FAC Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salve Hadrianus,
what I have wrote is that the grapes present in Italy now are similar
but not egual to the original plants. They were "contaminned" by
other plants during the centuries and the same modern wine is
different by the roman.
F.e. the fermentation in doliae for a minimum of 9 months produces a
wine more aromatic and dense than the fermentation in wood barrels
which requires a shorter fermentation. The temperature in under the
grouond, in the doliae, is highest of the modern way and the wine
residual is now filtered and deleted.
Coming back to the grapes, so I didn't said that they are equal.
However if you search on the web you could easily find a lab of the
Sovrintendenza Archeologica of Pompeii called "Laboratorio di
Ricerche applicate". They found ancient seeds of different plants
(not only grape) under the residual of the eruption, in the gardens
of Pompeii and Herculaneum. They cloned the seeds and cultivated
plants in the same ancient conditions (grapes in tree, ground,
temperature, etc.).
The Antica Erboristeria pompeiana, other istitution under the control
of sovrintendenza, was able to recreate the same tastes explained by
Apicio like the wine flavoured to purple or the rosatum.
The Mastrobernardino is a wine industries (and not
little "agriturismo") authorized by the Sovrintendenza to create and
sell wine coming from the "cloned" grapes. The project born in 1966
and was accomplished a couple of years ago. The first 6 bottles of
the wine were a gift for the former President of Italian Repubblic,
Ciampi, the other bottles were very very expansive.
I don't know now what Mastroberardino is selling, I don't know if the
wine is original or modified, however the experiment was well
accomplished and it's possible.
There are further experiences in Latium, Abruzzo and Veneto using
Falerno and Albanus. The majority of the industries however doesn't
propose the roman wine produced by the original grapes, it would be
false promotion. The serious industries propose a wine produced with
roman methods. F.e. Castello di Lispida cultivates grapes in trees,
on biological land, fermented in doliae without check of the
temperature and filter.
Obviously nothing could be egual to the ancient production, the
highest temperature, the contamination of the ground, the presence of
plants and bugs coming from other countries, the evolution of the
tastes, the contamination by other grapes even present with the
experimental cultivations don't permit to have the same plants.
But this is true for everything is reproduced after 2000 years... ;-)

Vale
FAC





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Adriano Rota <adriano.rota@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve tutti,
>
> dear Francesco Valenzano,
>
> it is wrong what you write! The grapes are from the area around
Pompei but far from being original.
> The Pompey wine is a local wine produced after roman methods and on
ancient soil but the grapes are may be less
> inter crossed than others, that is all!!!!
>
> There are no real original wine plants left (no intercrossing and
further domestication) left.!!!
> Being Italian myself I tell you it is a meanwhile common sales
strategy of italian wineries to say their wine is original roman.
> All they do is to take an old brand or tpe of wine grape and treat
it the ancient way. Which is ok. But they should not say they are
original.
> Especially in Italy where the wine production is an over 2000 year
old business there are unfortunately no original plants left. And
believe me the wineries have such a hard to to compete and bring
something special that they somteimes are not so serious about the
truth. Which makes sense since it is an
> ancient industry there.
> The only grape known is the grape of the Eibling (White Wine),
growing in the German Trier region. It has remained almost the way it
was originally. The Roman Army had brought it there. Being a wine
which did not meet the international modern standards of production
and only produced by a few small farmers for a limited regional
clientele, the Eibling survived all the trends of intercrossing to
make it more effective and meet the taste expectations of the masses.
It was never a mass wine that is why it was almost forgotten and not
worth the effort.
>
> The Italian Agritourismi are a trend to trick the tax obligations
for producers and are meanwhile an industry also. To produce organic
wine with ancient or medieval methods is a trend in all European
Countries since at least 10 to 15 years.
>
>
> Hadrianvs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 7:56:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
>
> Salve Caesar
>
> This great info! Thanks
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> >From: Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@yahoo. it>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: In Vino Veritas
> >Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:45:20 +0000 (GMT)
> >
> >Salve Pauline,
> >
> > >This leads me to my main question. What modern wines, if any
> >would be closest to Roman wine in nature and flavor?
> >
> >Romans usually drunk a different wine from the modern. Usually the
wine was
> >less clean and mixed with water or snow. So the alcholic volume
decreased
> >from 16% to 5 or 6%, I suppose the original wine without water was
closer
> >to a aromatic liquor of wine.
> >The majority of the ancient wines, vinum atrum (red) and candidum
(white),
> >are present in Italy. Here we have wines similar to Falernus,
volturnus,
> >albanus, sabinus of latium, etc. but they suffered contaminations
from
> >other grapes during the centuries, so they are not egual.
> >In Pompeii the local public authorities recreated the original
grapes using
> >ancient seeds. They created a very good roman wine using the
ancient
> >methods. The wines is very expansive and you could find it at
> >http://www.villadei misteri.com/ index_eng. htm
> >In Italy there are many private farms which produce roman wines
with
> >original seeds, or with recostruction of ancient grapes, on roman
original
> >lands and methods. I would suggest you Castello di Lispida, a
producer
> >close to Venice able to produce wine in doliae, the original roman
method,
> >the wine is very particular: http://www.lispida com/english/
vino/nostri. asp
> >
> >Vale
> >FAC
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _____
> >L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova
Yahoo! Mail:
> >http://it.docs yahoo.com/ nowyoucan. html
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54660 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salvete,

What were the peferred trees to grow the vines on?

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54661 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
> I have a question. When was the last deification emperor of Rome ?


SPECTATE TVTOR

The last Emperor to be deified was

LVCIVS DOMITIVS AVRELIANVS.

His feast day, Dies Natalis, is Die Sexto ante Kalendas Septembres, the 8 of September.

Reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander

Bononia

Italia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54662 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
> The last Emperor to be deified was
>
> LVCIVS DOMITIVS AVRELIANVS.

He was not the last.

For example Diocletian, who was emperor during 20 years, abdicated and
ended his life in Split, even if he dead as a private man, was deified.
See about this Eutrope IX,16.

And so one...

The last emperor deified was Valentinian the First.

Vale.

G. Petronius Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54663 From: FAC Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salve Triarus,
honestly I don't know what are the names in english but I'll try to
be correct as well as possible traslating from italian to english.

The great majority of the plants of grape is growed on wood
structures called I suppose "pergola". Like arches, at roof, guyot,
sylvoz, duplex, ecc. In this way the plant embrass the structure
creating a low and complicated grapevines.

The grapevines of the Romans is used today but less. In the past the
grape was growed like little tree around just one wood stick.

I'm sure techinical names exist in english, please take my apologies
for a so approximative description.

Vale
FAC



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> What were the peferred trees to grow the vines on?
>
> Vale optime,
> Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54664 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: In Vino Veritas
Salve,

I read somewhere in the past that certains wines were valued for
their flavor because of the type of trees they were grown on, but I
don't remember which. I guess it was a result of cross-pollination.

Vale optime,
Triarius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "FAC" <fraelov@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Triarus,
> honestly I don't know what are the names in english but I'll try to
> be correct as well as possible traslating from italian to english.
>
> The great majority of the plants of grape is growed on wood
> structures called I suppose "pergola". Like arches, at roof, guyot,
> sylvoz, duplex, ecc. In this way the plant embrass the structure
> creating a low and complicated grapevines.
>
> The grapevines of the Romans is used today but less. In the past
the
> grape was growed like little tree around just one wood stick.
>
> I'm sure techinical names exist in english, please take my
apologies
> for a so approximative description.
>
> Vale
> FAC
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> <lucius_vitellius_triarius@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > What were the peferred trees to grow the vines on?
> >
> > Vale optime,
> > Triarius
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54665 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
> > The last Emperor to be deified was
> >
> > LVCIVS DOMITIVS AVRELIANVS.
>
> He was not the last.
>
> For example Diocletian, who was emperor during 20 years, abdicated and
> ended his life in Split, even if he dead as a private man, was deified.
> See about this Eutrope IX,16.

SPECTATE DEXTRE

I have to admit you're right, although I have to correct you.
The mentioned place in Eutropius is IX,28. Not 16.

Contigit igitur ei, quod nulli post natos homines, ut cum privatus obisset, inter Divos tamen referretur.

I did not mention him for the reason mentioned by Eutropius himself. The deification did not happen for a ruling Emperor and I do not know if a real worship of him ever took place.

> The last emperor deified was Valentinian the First.

Foe what concerns Valentinianus, I am really estonished.
He was a Christian, and a good one, and the evil brought to Rome by his son is the symbol of such a family. He was not liked too much by the traditional "pagans" of Roman upper class, though not diliked, I shall admit. Moreover, Valentinianus died the 17 of november of 375. During summer of 376 Gratianus refused to be Pontifex Maximus. I can't see how the Senate could have managed to proclaim Divus Valentinianus during these few months.

Moreover again, he was good friend of Saint Damasus, as Valentinianus was, and of Saint Ambrose, whose attitude towards Roman religion is known.
He was very much influenced by them, as it is well known.

So, how could have it happen?
Do you have any sources about Valentinianus?

Reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54666 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Ave Alexander,

> So, how could have it happen?
> Do you have any sources about Valentinianus?

I found that in a French book of Roman History.

Paul Petit Histoire générale de l'empire romain 3. Le bas-empire
(284 - 395)

P. 126 :

" b) Théodose. Avant 379, Gratien suivit la politique tolérante de
son père. Malgré sa piété très forte, il subissait alors l'influence
d' Ausone, chrétien tiède, peut-être païen, fit diviniser
Valentinien - ce fut la dernière "apothéose" - et réprima l'agitation
donatiste par souci du maintien de l'ordre."

And In Ammianus Marcellinus : XXX, 10.

"Post conclamata imperatoris suprema, corpusque curatum ad
sepulturam, ut missum Constantinopolim inter divorum reliquias
humaretur..."

"After the last invocation of the emperor his body was prepared for
burial, in order to be sent to Constantinople and interred among the
remains of the deified rulers."

G. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54667 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Wrong mensis Februarius.
G. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus SPD,

I read the calendar of 2761 and I saw a mistake with the bissext.

It is written :

23 a.d. VII Kal. Mar.
24 a.d. VI Kal. Mar.
25 a.d. bis VI Kal. Mar.
26 a.d. V Kal. Mar.

But it is not logical neither right. First the comput is always up
from the following kalends. Then the "bis" day cannot be before the
day sixth ! In this wrong calendar you suppose a comput descending
since the real comput is ascending. More the day is far of the
following Kalends it takes a number more. You can "bis" the sixth day
between the seven and the sixth not between the sixth and the
fifth !!! Because the comput is up.

In fact we must have :

23 VII. Kal. Mar.
24 bis VI Kal. Mar
25 VI kal. Mar.
26 V. Kal. Mar.
27 IV. Kal. Mar.
28 III. Kal. Mar
29 pr. Kal. Mar.

And the bis VI is at this place because it is the day after the
terminalia (id est VII Kal. Mar) where before the Julian calendar
Pontifices put the Mercedonius month ! Julius Caesar put in the place
of this intercalarius month complete (22 or 23 days) one day,
the "bis sixth Kal. Mar.

Curate ut valeatis.

G. Petronius Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54668 From: sa-mann@libero.it Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: the last deification emperor of Rome
Spectate Dexter,

obviously Dexter and not Dextre as I wrote in the last post,

what you write is very, very interesting.

I shall investigate as much as I can about it.

At the moment, it looks to me as if Valentinianus was to be buried together with the other Divinified Emperors, a true divinification not being mentioned, but it is something to be studied. Thank you very much!

reverenter

Gallus Solaris Alexander
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54669 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Aed. P. Memmius Albucius Petronius s.d.

You may well be right, Dexter.

For your information, the Fasti page that you sure have clicked on at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI#FEBRVARIVS...

says us that it is an "Unofficial Fasti for the year M. Moravio T.
Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXI a.u.c.. The nundinal letter is Undecided.".

This page has been created by our Magister Aranearius to help every
one, and, as you see, Agricola magister has been cautious and wise
enough to warn us all that we should not take this page as "official".

The fact is that our Collegium Pontificum (It is the sole to be
authorized to issue such a decision) may soon decree what will be the
feriae and market days, so that we have a definitive and official
public calendar.

Vale Dexter,


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
> G. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus SPD,
>
> I read the calendar of 2761 and I saw a mistake with the bissext.
>
> It is written :
>
> 23 a.d. VII Kal. Mar.
> 24 a.d. VI Kal. Mar.
> 25 a.d. bis VI Kal. Mar.
> 26 a.d. V Kal. Mar.
>
> But it is not logical neither right. First the comput is always up
> from the following kalends. Then the "bis" day cannot be before the
> day sixth ! In this wrong calendar you suppose a comput descending
> since the real comput is ascending. More the day is far of the
> following Kalends it takes a number more. You can "bis" the sixth
day
> between the seven and the sixth not between the sixth and the
> fifth !!! Because the comput is up.
>
> In fact we must have :
>
> 23 VII. Kal. Mar.
> 24 bis VI Kal. Mar
> 25 VI kal. Mar.
> 26 V. Kal. Mar.
> 27 IV. Kal. Mar.
> 28 III. Kal. Mar
> 29 pr. Kal. Mar.
>
> And the bis VI is at this place because it is the day after the
> terminalia (id est VII Kal. Mar) where before the Julian calendar
> Pontifices put the Mercedonius month ! Julius Caesar put in the
place
> of this intercalarius month complete (22 or 23 days) one day,
> the "bis sixth Kal. Mar.
>
> Curate ut valeatis.
>
> G. Petronius Dexter.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54670 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Aed. EDICT on the law applicable in the Macellum and the resolution
Aed. cur. Memmius omnibus s.d.

Please find below my edict on the law applicable in the Macellum and
the resolution of disputes.


Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius


--------CUR. AED. P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-03)--------------
concerning the law applicable in the Macellum and the resolution of
disputes (de lege macellaria et transactione controversiarum)


I, Publius Memmius Albucius, aedilis curulis, by the authority vested
by the constitution, the laws and the Senate of Nova Roma,

In view of Lex Arminia de ratione edictis a.d. VIII Kal. Dec 2755
auc, and of aedilician Cytheris and Artoria 2760 auc edicts,

In order to allow the Equites (sellers) and the consumers who make
transactions in Nova Roma Macellum to have a clear information on the
law applicable to these transactions, to the relations between
Novaroman law and (« macro- »)national laws, and also to have access
to a quicker and more convenient resolution mode of their possible
disputes,

Edict :

Article 1 – Confirmation of revokation of previous edicts

The revokation of the aedilician edicts issued in 2760 a.u.c. (2007
cc.) by both aediles in charge and concerning :

- the confirmation of the previous commercial edicts ("de
praecedentibus edictis commercialibus confirmandis", a.d. XVIII Kal.
Feb., Jan. 15, 2007 cc., publ. ML Jan. 22 # 48773)
- the "fair trade" ("de commercio iusto");
- the judgments forbidden by arbitration ("de interdicto restitutorio
per formulam arbitrariam")

is here confirmed. These regulations are replaced by the rules
edicted in the following articles 2 to 8.


Article 2 – Nova Roma commercial law

By agreeing on transactions, specially sales ones, inside Nova Roma
macellum, sellers and consumers accept to obey, in these
transactions, to Nova Roma commercial law. This commercial law
specially defines below the law applicable in a transaction made in
the Macellum and the possible recourse to Nova Roma arbitration.


Article 3 – Definition of the Macellum

The Macellum includes every transaction made by a seller, authorized
to sell inside Nova Roma and thus listed as Eques (plur. Equites),
with an consumer, whoever he be, Nova Roma citizen or not, if this
transaction is agreed in a real or internet venue owned or managed by
Nova Roma.


Article 4 – Place of the transaction - proof

In case of a dispute arising about the sale between a seller and a
consumer, the burden of the proof, concerning the place where the
sale has been agreed, will be supported by the seller, specially if
this one also makes transactions outside Nova Roma Macellum. The sale
would be thus reputed to have been agreed in Nova Roma macellum,
unless the contrary be demonstrated by the seller.


Article 5 – Law applicable to the transaction

Agreeing a transaction inside Nova Roma macellum has a direct
relation with the law applicable to this transaction.
The law applicable in sales occurring inside the Macellum is the
national law of the country where seller and consumer both reside, in
the case of what is then called a domestic transaction. For ex., if
the seller and the consumer, both reside in the U.S. of America, the
law applicable will be defined by the U.S. Uniform Commercial Code.
The law applicable in sales occurring inside the Macellum between a
seller and a consumer who do not reside in the same country is
called "International transaction". Its applicable law is the law of
the country where the consumer resides. In case of a dispute, the
consumer may also claim for the application of the U.S. Uniform
Commercial Code, if its regulations are more protective to her/him.


Article 6 – Use of arbitration and relation to Nova Roma

In due conformity with the laws of the residing countries of the
parties involved in the transactions or with the country where both
parties reside, these one may agree, at any moment and instead to
submit their disputes to a judge, for an arbitration.
They organize then their arbitration as they see fit, unless they
require Nova Roma arbitration. By doing this, both parties accept to
obey Nova Roma arbitration award.


Article 7 – Law applicable to arbitration

Nova Roma arbitration is then made by one aedilis curulis in office
at this time, according mainly to Novaroman law, mos maiorum and
ancient Roman law and principles of law, and, if necessary, according
any other relevant modern law, rule or principle, including lex
mercatoria's ones.
The arbitrator informs the parties of the formal proceedings rules
which will be applied to the arbitration.


Article 8 – Arbitration end – award

If, from the moment the aedilis curulis has accepted to act as
arbitrator, the parties succeed reaching an agreement which puts an
end to their dispute, they inform the aedilis and the matter is
closed.
The arbitrators pronounce her/his award after having heard the
parties.
In addition to the award pronounced as an arbitrator, which deals
with the damages suffered by one of the party inside the transaction,
the aedilis curulis may impose the condemned party a penalty which
enters in her/his aedilician field of competency.
The arbitration awards are electronically delivered to every party
and published in the fora and web pages managed by the aediles
curules, no sooner than two weeks after the verdict.


Article 9 – Enforcement of this edict

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Tabularium_%28Nova_Roma%29 and in
the relevant Novaroman lists.


Issued in Cadomagus, civ. Viducassium, Gallia, a.d. VI Idus MMDCCLXI
a.u.c. (8th January 2008 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Moravius
Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54671 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
G. Petronius Dexter Aed. P. Memmio Albucio s.p.d.

> says us that it is an "Unofficial Fasti for the year M. Moravio T.
> Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXI a.u.c.. The nundinal letter is Undecided.".

Unofficial and nundinal letter undecided ! What Pontifices made last
year ?

I can help you to find the nundinal letter. As you know the
intervallum is 8 days or 8 days is an internundinum.

We historicaly know that the 12 december 76 BC was a market day at
Roma. The 12 december 76 is the julian day (thursday) 1 749 163. The
01/01/2008 (tuesday) is the Julian day 2 454 467.

The difference between 2 454 467 and 1 749 163 = 705304. It is a just
multiple of 8 !

The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
mistake the nundinal letter is A.

G. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54672 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
Ago tibi gratias, Albuci.

You are correct. I did a quick job and posted the notice hoping to
help the Collegium.

The main thing, actually, was to re-assign the nundinal letters after
the bisextile day. As for the rest, I will let the experts deal with
it as they see fit, and when they have issued their official statement
I will see that the page is updated. Until then, it is just a scratchpad.

optime valete!

Agricola


optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Aed. P. Memmius Albucius Petronius s.d.
>
> You may well be right, Dexter.
>
> For your information, the Fasti page that you sure have clicked on at
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI#FEBRVARIVS...
>
> says us that it is an "Unofficial Fasti for the year M. Moravio T.
> Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXI a.u.c.. The nundinal letter is Undecided.".
>
> This page has been created by our Magister Aranearius to help every
> one, and, as you see, Agricola magister has been cautious and wise
> enough to warn us all that we should not take this page as "official".
>
> The fact is that our Collegium Pontificum (It is the sole to be
> authorized to issue such a decision) may soon decree what will be the
> feriae and market days, so that we have a definitive and official
> public calendar.
>
> Vale Dexter,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> aed. cur.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > G. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus SPD,
> >
> > I read the calendar of 2761 and I saw a mistake with the bissext.
> >
> > It is written :
> >
> > 23 a.d. VII Kal. Mar.
> > 24 a.d. VI Kal. Mar.
> > 25 a.d. bis VI Kal. Mar.
> > 26 a.d. V Kal. Mar.
> >
> > But it is not logical neither right. First the comput is always up
> > from the following kalends. Then the "bis" day cannot be before the
> > day sixth ! In this wrong calendar you suppose a comput descending
> > since the real comput is ascending. More the day is far of the
> > following Kalends it takes a number more. You can "bis" the sixth
> day
> > between the seven and the sixth not between the sixth and the
> > fifth !!! Because the comput is up.
> >
> > In fact we must have :
> >
> > 23 VII. Kal. Mar.
> > 24 bis VI Kal. Mar
> > 25 VI kal. Mar.
> > 26 V. Kal. Mar.
> > 27 IV. Kal. Mar.
> > 28 III. Kal. Mar
> > 29 pr. Kal. Mar.
> >
> > And the bis VI is at this place because it is the day after the
> > terminalia (id est VII Kal. Mar) where before the Julian calendar
> > Pontifices put the Mercedonius month ! Julius Caesar put in the
> place
> > of this intercalarius month complete (22 or 23 days) one day,
> > the "bis sixth Kal. Mar.
> >
> > Curate ut valeatis.
> >
> > G. Petronius Dexter.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54673 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-08
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> G. Petronius Dexter Aed. P. Memmio Albucio s.p.d.
>

[SNIP]

>
> The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
> mistake the nundinal letter is A.
>
> G. Petronius Dexter
>

Salve Dexter!

I agree and I have used that on the main page. I did that because the
script that puts up the IRC chat notices needs to have something.
However, only what the CP says is official. So the nundinal letter is
officially undecided but provisionally I am using A.

They are probably meeting now to discuss this matter, but I have no
way of knowing for certain. We can but wait and hope.

Optime vale in cura deorum

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54674 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: a. d. V Eidus Ianuarias: AGONIUM
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus simus.

Hodie est ante diem V Eidus Ianuarias; haec dies nefastus est: Agonium

"Janus must be propitiated on the Agonalia. The day may take its name
from the girded priest at whose blow the god's sacrifice is felled:
Always, before he stains the naked blade with hot blood, he asks if
he should (agatne), and won't unless commanded.

"Some believe that the day is called Agonalia because the sheep do
not come to the altar but are driven (agantur). Others think the
ancients called this festival Agnalia, `of the lambs', dropping a
letter from its usual place. Or because the victim fears the knife
mirrored in the water, the day might be so called from the creature's
agony? It may also be that the day has a Greek name from the games
(agones) that were held in former times. And in ancient speech agonia
meant a sheep, and this last reason in my judgement is the truth.
Though the meaning is uncertain, the Rex Sacrorum must appease the
Gods with the mate of a woolly ewe. It's called the victim because a
victorious hand fells it: and hostia, sacrifice, from conquered
hostile foes.

"Cornmeal and glittering grains of pure salt were once the means for
men to placate the Gods. No foreign ship had yet brought liquid myrrh
extracted from tree's bark, over the ocean waves: Euphrates had not
sent incense, nor India balm, and the threads of yellow saffron were
unknown. The altar was happy to fume with Sabine juniper, and the
laurel burned with a loud crackling. He was rich, whoever could add
violets to garlands woven from meadow flowers. The knife that bares
the entrails of the stricken bull had no role to perform in the
sacred rites." ~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.317-348

For the Agonium the Rex Sacrorum sacrificed a ram in the Regia,
almost undoubtedly, to Janus. Janus is said to have been called
Agnonius, through which the sacrifice took its name (Augustunus, Civ.
Dei 4.11.16). These three important elements – Janus, the Rex
Sacrorum, and the Regia – rather than antiquarian speculations and
priestly invention, bring us to the very foundations of the religio
Romana. At its core is the culti Deorum of the home and family.
Janus is Guardian of the entrance to the home, as Vesta is Guardian
of the hearth, the inner sanctum of the home. In the Carmen Salii He
is the "God of Gods," Deus Deorum, and He is duonus Cerus, the "Good
Creator." "Janus, who was before all the Gods, to whom our parents
first invoked in their prayers, from whom all things proceed (Festus
s. v. Chaos)." He is variously called – Geminus (Twin), Patuleius
(the Opener of the Years), Matutinus (the Beginning of the Day). He
is the first to greet any visitor to the family home, and likewise He
is the Gate Keeper through whom access is found to the other Gods
(Ovid, Fasti 1.171-174). He is offered wine and cakes before all
other deities (ibid. Cato, De Agricultura 134). His name comes first
in the order of deities invoked in a devotio (Livy 8.9.6). Always
is He recognized in this manner:

"Sower of the years, Janus, beginning of the shining and most
beautiful world, with You begins our prayers and public vows." ~
Martial, Epigrammata 10.28.1-2

We see then, too, that the special priest of Janus is the Rex
Sacrorum. In the most ancient order of the priests in the Collegium
Pontificum, the Rex Sacrorum stood first in dignity, followed
respectively by the flamen Dialis, flamen Martialis, and flamen
Quirinalis, and lastly by the Pontifex Maximus with two other
pontifices (Festus 185). The Vestales Virgines then followed the
Collegium Pontificum in processions of later times, and they in turn
were followed by the other collegia, sodalitates, and finally the
flamines minores (Lucan Pharsalia I.584-638). An interpretation of
the priesthoods holds that the Rex Sacrorum, standing in for the
traditional kings of Rome, represented the head of an extended family
living in one of the great houses. The flamines maiores then
represented his sons and the Vestales his daughters. Among the
deities served by the flamines maiores – Jupiter, Mars, and Quirinus
(Romulus) there is another familial relationship of father, son, and
grandson. Janus, represented by His priest in this order, may then
seen as though He correspond to the Lar familiaris, the originating
patriarch of the household. Something to consider here is the matter
of when a Rex Sacrorum was first introduced. Servius Tullius was not
chosen king in the traditional manner. He did not take the title of
king (Rex) but instead fashioned himself as Magister Populi. He was
a tyrant in the same sense as his contemporaries Peisistratus of
Athens and Lygdamis of Naxos, basing his political power in the urban
artisans and tradesmen, and with small farmers and herdsmen of the
countryside against the aristocratic families of large rural estates.
The Rex Sacrorum may have then been introduced around 578 BCE to
serve in the ritual roles of the traditional Rex. Another thought is
that his office was introduced after 509 BCE with the establishment
of the Republic.

The final ingredient to the Agonium is then the Regia. A single
surviving marker shows that the place had originally been set off as
a templum. The earliest construction of the Regia consisted of a
courtyard and to two chambers behind a portico with a space left
between these. In the Regia were held the sacra of Ops Consive and
that of Mars including the hasta Marti and the sacred shield send
down by Jupiter to King Numa, along with the ancillae. The second
phase of construction just expanded the courtyard to include both
sacella more. In the mid-sixth century, one cella was removed and a
great hall added on the northern side. It was in this period that
the frieze plaques appeared bearing images of panthers, lions,
minotaurs, and birds, disc acroteria, antefixes of gorgons and female
heads, and possibly terracotta statuary as well. In its decoration in
this period, under Servius Tullius, we see the influx of motifs from
the eastern Mediterranean. Near the end of his reign, traditionally
in 534 BCE, the Regia burnt down. Under Tarquinius Superbus the
Regia was reoriented, the two cellas transferred from the western end
to the eastern, with a vestibule between them. It is at this point
that Janus Matutinus, the rising sun filling the cellas with light,
could have been brought together with his other aspects as seen in
later times. In its final phase at the end of the 6th century,
supposedly with the expulsion of Tarquinius Superbus, the Regia was
transformed. This was when it became a porticus house like those
found elsewhere in Latium at this time in Ficana, Torrino, and most
clearly at Satricum. It is rectangular, rather than irregular in
form. It consisted of three chambers, fronted by a portico that
opened onto a courtyard. This early type of urban great house began,
with the final phase of the Regia construction, to be adopted as a
style used for temples, just as the distinctly different atrium house
was being introduced along the Via Sacra.

From this very early period remain also only fragments of the Carmen
Salii addressed to Janus:

"Arise, O Consus, arise. All things, truly, I entrust to Patulcium
the Opener. Now You are Janus the Gatekeeper, now Cerus the Good
Creator, now Janus the God of Good Beginnings. Come, now most
especially, You who are the better of these kings. Dance before the
Father of the Gods, give thanks to the God of Gods." ~ Varro, Lingua
Latinae 7.26; 7.27


Today's thought comes to us from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 65:

"It is pointless for a man to pray to the Gods for that which he has
the power to obtain by himself."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54675 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

Scripsit C. Petronius:

> The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
> mistake the nundinal letter is A.

Scripsit M. Lucretius:

> I agree and I have used that on the main page.

Oh dear.

Allow me to refer you all to Macrobius, 13.16-13.19.

If you need me, I shall be spending the year in a bunker with a towel wrapped round my head.




__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54676 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,

I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a time to be with her and to talk about many things.
I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion to what age group are they proper.

Di vos incolumes custodiant.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54677 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
The Phaedri Fabulae are excellent little stories to tell children.
Some come directly from Aesop, but others are Italian (or perhaps even
Thracian).

Q. Valerius Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@...> wrote:
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of
Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of
Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories
that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
> I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not
to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the
other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion
to what age group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54678 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salvete Romani et Omnes! This is an excellent idea and
something that is vitally IMPORTANT for our
children!!! Story telling is just one aspect of the
whole picture of instilling ROMANITAS into our
children! IF we don't start early with Romanitas and
the Mos Maiorum and Via Vita Romana we WILL loose our
children to the so-called American values and culture
and have NO future generation of Romani to carry on!!!
I for one am NOT one of those who say they
will leave it up to the children to decide what faith
or religion they will be! In my Familia Romana the
children are being raised as Roman Pagans! They are
taught the Roman myths and stories about the Gods and
Goddesses. They attend the daily worship at the
Lararium, and are instructed in the Cultus Deorum, how
to pray and make offerings the traditional Roman Way
according to the Mos Maiorum. They are taught that
Familia and Gens are important!!! Amici, this is not
fantasy or make believe, the Religio and Romanitas are
for REAL and we must become a living example of it in
the modern world whether in Italy, America or where
ever true Romani exist! Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs,
Senior Paterfamilias Gentis Iuliae, U.S.A.
--- Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@...>
wrote:

> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to
> our 4 years old daughter before bed time. It is a
> time to calm her and also it is a time to be with
> her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk
> stories, on History happenings and Roman and Greek
> culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on
> the encounter of Oedipus with the Sphinx and the
> story of Theseus and the Minotaur Labyrinth.
> Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
> story of Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the
> Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or
> avoid some stories that I think she isn’t ready to
> hear.
> I’m not trying starting another debate on what it
> is proper or not to children since I think that is
> the solely responsibility of each parents, and also
> each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
> to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the
> same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and
> Greece are the other Nova Roman parents telling
> their children and in their opinion to what age
> group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54679 From: C. Curius Saturninus Date: 2008-01-09
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Salvete,

A correction, if I may. CP has decided that the market day letter for
this year is A. This information was given to me at 24th of October
by pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius.

Valete,


On 9.1.2008, at 12:10, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 3e. Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
> Posted by: "M. Lucretius Agricola" wm_hogue@...
> marcus_lucretius_agricola
> Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:35 pm ((PST))
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>>
>> G. Petronius Dexter Aed. P. Memmio Albucio s.p.d.
>>
>
> [SNIP]
>
>>
>> The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
>> mistake the nundinal letter is A.
>>
>> G. Petronius Dexter
>>
>
> Salve Dexter!
>
> I agree and I have used that on the main page. I did that because the
> script that puts up the IRC chat notices needs to have something.
> However, only what the CP says is official. So the nundinal letter is
> officially undecided but provisionally I am using A.
>
> They are probably meeting now to discuss this matter, but I have no
> way of knowing for certain. We can but wait and hope.
>
> Optime vale in cura deorum
>
> Agricola

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanpää)

Senator - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
thule.novaroma.org
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54680 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
G. Dexter A. Apollonio S.P.D,

> Allow me to refer you all to Macrobius, 13.16-13.19.

The coincidence between the calends of January and the nundinae are
really known by the past. For example, on year 52 BC. The scrupule
noticed by Macrobius was right with the old calendar before the Julian
calendar. After the calendar's reform by Julius Caesar, it was
impossible to avoid this coincidence by intercalation with a day more
one year recuperated the following year !

> If you need me, I shall be spending the year in a bunker with a
> towel wrapped round my head.

On the Limes or Hadrian wall ? :o)

G. Petronius Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54681 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Researching "Idol-Worship"
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Wade MacMorrighan" <Wade@...> wrote:

dear Wade
in a post you say

>Posted by: "Wade MacMorrighan" Wade@... macmorrighan
>Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:24 am (PST)
>Hey guys, I have recently jotted down some personal notes for creating
>an Uncrossing Oil; however, I require some Copal Oil, but my supplier
>doesn't have any. In fact, she says she's never even seen any,
>before. But, I'm sure I've seen it, so I know is must be extent.
>So...I was wondering if anyone, here, might know of a supplier that's
>sells Copal Oil .

Marcus Conrlius Felix replys
hey You Need to use google ( this was on the top of the search
returns i got )
the wiccan glade (link) http://www.wiccanglade.com/copaloil.html

the meta pot (link) http://metapot.com/Copal-Oil-Wicca-1oz-p-3167.html

Vale
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54682 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:
>
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
> Scripsit C. Petronius:
>
> > The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
> > mistake the nundinal letter is A.
>
> Scripsit M. Lucretius:
>
> > I agree and I have used that on the main page.
>
> Oh dear.
>
> Allow me to refer you all to Macrobius, 13.16-13.19.
>
> If you need me, I shall be spending the year in a bunker with a
towel wrapped round my head.
>
>
>

Agricola Cordo sal.

Yes indeed. But many prohibitions regarding market day from early
times were later ignored. It is up to the college of pontifs, not
lowly me, to decide.

optime vale!

>
> __________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54683 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Agricola Saturnino sal.

I did not know this.

optime vale in cura deorum


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Curius Saturninus"
<c.curius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> A correction, if I may. CP has decided that the market day letter for
> this year is A. This information was given to me at 24th of October
> by pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius.
>
> Valete,
>
>
> On 9.1.2008, at 12:10, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > 3e. Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
> > Posted by: "M. Lucretius Agricola" wm_hogue@...
> > marcus_lucretius_agricola
> > Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:35 pm ((PST))
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >>
> >> G. Petronius Dexter Aed. P. Memmio Albucio s.p.d.
> >>
> >
> > [SNIP]
> >
> >>
> >> The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
> >> mistake the nundinal letter is A.
> >>
> >> G. Petronius Dexter
> >>
> >
> > Salve Dexter!
> >
> > I agree and I have used that on the main page. I did that because the
> > script that puts up the IRC chat notices needs to have something.
> > However, only what the CP says is official. So the nundinal letter is
> > officially undecided but provisionally I am using A.
> >
> > They are probably meeting now to discuss this matter, but I have no
> > way of knowing for certain. We can but wait and hope.
> >
> > Optime vale in cura deorum
> >
> > Agricola
>
> C. Curius Saturninus
> (Mikko Sillanpää)
>
> Senator - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
> Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova
>
> e-mail: c.curius@...
> www.academiathules.org
> thule.novaroma.org
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54684 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: a. d. IIII Eidus Ianuarias: Alea iacta est
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus simus.

Hodie est ante diem IIII Eidus Ianuarias; haec dies comitialis est:

"The following dawn marks the mid-point of winter, and what remains
will equal what has gone." ~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.459-460


AUC 704 / 49 BCE: Alea iacta est, Caesar crosses the Rubicon

"Being assured of the good will of the soldiers, he marched with that
legion to Rimini, where he was met by the tribunes of the people, who
had fled to him for protection He ordered the other legions to quit
their winter quarters, and follow him with all expedition." ~ C.
Iulius Caesar, De Bello Civilis 1.7

"The long and short of it is that Caesar himself, once our friend,
has sent the Senate a menacing and offensive dispatch, and is so
insolent as to retain his army and province in spite of the Senate,
and my old friend Curio is backing him up. Furthermore, our friend
Antonius and Q. Cassius, having been expelled from the house, though
without any violence, left town with Curio to join Caesar, directly
the Senate had passed the decree (7 Jan.)ordering 'consuls, praetors,
tribunes, and us proconsuls to see that the Republic received no
damage.' Never has the state been in greater danger: never have
disloyal citizens had a better prepared leader. On the whole,
however, preparations are being pushed on with very great activity on
our side also. This is being done by the influence and energy of our
friend Pompey, who now, when it is too late, begins to fear Caesar."
~ Cicero, Epistulae F. 16.11, To Tiro 12 January 49 BCE

"It was, by no means, a fair proposal, that Caesar should be obliged
to quite Rimini and return to Gaul, while Pompey held provinces and
legions that were none of his: that he should dismiss his army,
whilst the other was levying troops: and, that only a general promise
of going into Spain should be given, without fixing a day for his
departure; by which evasion, was he to be found in Italy, even at the
expiration of Caesar's consulship, he could not yet be charged with
breach of faith. His forbearing too to appoint a time for a
conference, and declining to approach nearer, gave little reason to
hope for a peace. He therefore sent Antony to Arretium, with five
cohorts; remained himself at Rimini, with two, where he resolved to
levy troops; and seizing Pisaurum, Fanum, and Ancona, left a cohort
in each for a garrison." ~ C. Iulius Caesar, De Bello Civili 1.10


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 45:

"The study of nature does not create men who are fond of boasting and
chattering or who show off the culture that impresses the many, but
rather men who are strong and self-sufficient, and who take pride in
their own personal qualities not in those that depend on external
circumstances."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54685 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Roman calendar, 1/10/2008, 12:00 pm
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   Roman calendar
 
Date:   Thursday January 10, 2008
Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
Notes:   To get a simple Roman calendar with Religio Romana holidays listed by daily e-mail, send a message to fasti-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
 
Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54686 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Researching "Idol-Worship"
Anyone interested in communicating with Wade MacMorrighan should know
that he is no longer subscribed to the Nova-Roma mailing list.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54687 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Aedilis Memmius omnibus s.d.

WARNING about the sale of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.

As aedilis curulis in charge of the Macellum regulations, I feel
necessary to inform every possible consumer that the calendars 2761
(2008 cc) which might currently be proposed to sale cannot yet be
allowed the qualification of "official".

Beyond the quality of these products, the fact is that our Collegium
Pontificum has not yet issued its decree for 2761 auc precising the
market and "mobile feriae" days. No one may issue such publication,
but the Collegium Pontificum.

Pontifex Maximus has announced that this calendar will be issued soon.

Until this day, and until we aediles be materially able to certify,
for 2761, that the calendars sold by our Macellum sellers are similar
to the announced public calendar, Nova Roma cannot give
any "official" label to such products.

The consumer is fully free buying these products, specially for their
other qualities, but will not be allowed claiming for Nova Roma's
responsibility if these calendars are not in due conformity with the
coming Collegium Pontificum public calendar, the only official one.

The concerned sellers have been delivered these informations by
individual edict.

Every seller (Eques) is reminded to contact the aediles curules at:
NR_Cohors_aedilicia@yahoogroups.com

in order to obtain, for one or several of her/his product(s) already
sold in the Macellum or to be sold there, the "officially sponsored
by Nova Roma" label/qualification.


Thanks for you attention,


Aedilis cur. Memmius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54688 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Aed. P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.

Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Valete omnes,


Memmius.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
(de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)

I, Publius Memmius Albucius, aedilis curulis, by the authority vested
by the constitution, the laws and the Senate of Nova Roma, and in
view of them,

In order to allow the sellers to develop their transactions in the
Macellum and outside thanks to Nova Roma's support, and at the same
time to give every consumer a good confidence that the sold products
be faithful to the practices and recommendations of Nova Roma,

Edict :

Article 1 – Creation of a label

Nova Roma may give every product, sold in the Macellum by a duly
registered Eques, the "officially sponsored by Nova Rom" (in
latin : "Nova Roma sustenta/-um/-us publice") label.

Article 2 – Label definition and limitations

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label guarantees to every
potential consumer that the product is faithful to the practices,
ethics, values and recommendations of Nova Roma.
This label, or qualification, does not give any other guarantee,
specially legal, on the quality of the product, its convenience, its
suitability, which are treated by the (macro-)national law applicable
to the transaction in which the product is sold to the consumer.

Article 3 – Aediles

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.
The word "aediles" may design, in the following articles, just one of
the aediles in office, according the way both aediles have decided to
organize their work.

Article 4 – Proceedings

The Eques (seller) wishing the granting of the "officially sponsored
by Nova Roma" label sends an electronic message request to the
aediles, at the address : NR_Cohors_aedilicia@yahoogroups.com.
This include an clear request for obtaining the label for a clearly
designed product sold by the Eques.
It also include any relevant information which may be useful for the
aediles to take their decision on the labellization, concerning :

- the identity and the status of the applicant Eques
- the applicant e-mail address
- the product itself
- why the "officially sponsored" label is requested for this product,

In a second time, the aediles may think necessary to give the
applicant seller their postal address(-es) so that the applicant can
send to the aediles the concerned product for examination.
The aediles ask the seller every question on the product that they
think useful. The applicant seller is recommended, naturally,
answering at best to each of these questions.


Article 5 – Label granting decision

The granting decision is taken by individual aedilician edict.
The aediles deliver electronically their decision to the applicant,
no later than one month after the reception, by the aediles, of the
product or, if its sending has not seemed necessary by the aediles,
one month after such a statement.
In case of silence kept by the aediles more than one month from one
of the alternative date abovementioned, the granting decision is
reputed negative.
In the last situation, the concerned seller may ask the aediles to
issue an individual edict, electronically delivered to the applicant
in the following month, explaining the reasons of their decision.

Article 6 – Sending proofs

It is recommended to the applicant seller to ask, when sending
his/her request or his/her product to the aediles, an electronic or
postal acknowledgment of receipt of this sending.


Article 7 – Appeal on the granting decision

No specific appeal on a negative aedilician decision will be
accepted, unless if an aedile does not deliver the edict mentioned in
article 5 above. In this case, the appeal may be presented no sooner
than 15 days after the date when the granting decision has been
considered implicitly negative.
Every appeal is examined by the aedile who has not issued the
decision.
Every Eques (seller) admits that the "officially sponsored" label is
an additional advantage granted by Nova Roma to her/his business, and
not a right linked to the Eques status. Every Eques thus accepts in
advance to renounce to other kind of specific appeal relative to the
frame of the present edict. General ordinary legal actions are
naturally available.

Article 8 – Use of the label

The seller (Eques) who has been granted for one of her/his product
the "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label may use it in the
Macellum or outside for any promotion, advertising, communication or
presentation of the product. The seller is thus authorized to precise
in her/his advertising, promotion, communication or presentation
documents, whatever be their support (real or virtual, texts, sounds,
drawings, pictures or movies etc.) that the product has obtained this
label. The seller may also insert the expression "officially
sponsored by Nova Roma" label on or in the product, as (s)he sees
fit, as far that (s)he considers that this insertion is not
prejudicial to the quality of the product, its image or every
consumer's expectations.

Article 9 – Withdrawal of the label

The aediles may, at any time, on their own initiative or on the
request of a citizen or a foreigner, withdraw a label.
Such a withdrawal is taken by individual edict, which states the
reasons of this withdrawal. These reasons may be in relation, among
others, to a modification of the product without previous agreement
of Nova Roma, to its relation with an event, individuals,
organizations or communications whose image, practices, ethics,
values or politics are contrary to the constitution and laws of Nova
Roma, to a hidden defect, or others events that do not allow Nova
Roma to keep on sponsoring the concerned product.
The aediles deliver electronically the withdrawal edict to the
concerned Eques, and publish it afterwards in the forum ("main list")
of Nova Roma as well as in the Macellum web pages.
A withdrawal decision legally authorize the aediles to withdraw from
the Macellum any advertising, promotion, communication or
presentation of the concerned product, whatever its support and kind
(text, sound, drawing, picture, movie etc.) which would still
contain, after the delivery of the withdrawal decision, the
mention "officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Article 10 – Appeal on a withdrawal decision

An appeal may be formed against the withdrawal decision, towards the
aedile who has not issued the withdrawal decision. This appeal does
not suspend, during the time of its examination and judgment, the
effects of the withdrawal decision.

Article 11 – Enforcement of this edict

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Tabularium_%28Nova_Roma%29 and in
the relevant Novaroman lists.


Issued in Cadomagus, civ. Viducassium, Gaul, a.d. IV Idus MMDCCLXI
a.u.c. (10th January 2008 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Moravius
Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54689 From: Mikko Sillanpää Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Salvete omnes,

Our Aedile has not been quite up-to-date about things lately.

First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR calendar in the sense he is
mistakenly understanding the phrase. My calendar is official NR calendar because the
Senate, which has the control over the NR logo and usage of the name Nova Roma, has
granted me a permission to use that phrase to indicate that my calendar is recognised as
NR product of a NR citizen for citizens of NR.

Anyhow my calendar does claim to be official NR calendar in the sense our Aedile
understands it for some reason. Everyone knows, and it says in the calendar, that calendar
data is supplied by the Collegium Pontificum. Also in my calendar are indicated the
sources of additional information that has been used.

I have followed the data and information given by the representative of CP, and there is no
realistic possibility that this data might change, indeed I suspect that it is not even
possible anymore by the rules of CP.

What is perfectly true is that I'm waiting for the Senate January session to extend my
permission to use the NR logo and name in my product. However that cannot be hurried
even with Aedile's edict.

My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be. I simply find it proper that
project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask and recieve the Senate's
approval for using NR logo and name with it.

Since the data is correct and the Senate approval pending, I must demand that the Aedile
Albucius withdraws his warning against my service to the public, and that the Tribunes
veto his warning if he doesn't withdraw it.

Of Aedile's motivation for acting the way he has I say nothing more that I have serious
doubts.

Valete,

Saturninus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
wrote:
>
> Aedilis Memmius omnibus s.d.
>
> WARNING about the sale of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
>
> As aedilis curulis in charge of the Macellum regulations, I feel
> necessary to inform every possible consumer that the calendars 2761
> (2008 cc) which might currently be proposed to sale cannot yet be
> allowed the qualification of "official".
>
> Beyond the quality of these products, the fact is that our Collegium
> Pontificum has not yet issued its decree for 2761 auc precising the
> market and "mobile feriae" days. No one may issue such publication,
> but the Collegium Pontificum.
>
> Pontifex Maximus has announced that this calendar will be issued soon.
>
> Until this day, and until we aediles be materially able to certify,
> for 2761, that the calendars sold by our Macellum sellers are similar
> to the announced public calendar, Nova Roma cannot give
> any "official" label to such products.
>
> The consumer is fully free buying these products, specially for their
> other qualities, but will not be allowed claiming for Nova Roma's
> responsibility if these calendars are not in due conformity with the
> coming Collegium Pontificum public calendar, the only official one.
>
> The concerned sellers have been delivered these informations by
> individual edict.
>
> Every seller (Eques) is reminded to contact the aediles curules at:
> NR_Cohors_aedilicia@yahoogroups.com
>
> in order to obtain, for one or several of her/his product(s) already
> sold in the Macellum or to be sold there, the "officially sponsored
> by Nova Roma" label/qualification.
>
>
> Thanks for you attention,
>
>
> Aedilis cur. Memmius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54690 From: Titus Iulius Calvus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salvete Omnes!

I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story about
this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my little
girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version of
the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et. al.)
Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
conversation that followed:

WIFE: "What's wrong?"
DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t-t-told us a st-st-st-story..."
WIFE: "About what?"
DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa..."
WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about stuff
like that!"
ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the Medusa's
head and..."
WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the monsters...and
now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH THERE
WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A HERO!!!
WAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!"
ME: "Told you..."
DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my room so
I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"

I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.

For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her room.
She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her ones
with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she goes to
a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from the
other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll see the
Medusa head and get strength from that.

Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the girls have
to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe. It's
nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.


Valete!

T. IVL. CALVVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@...> wrote:
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of
Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of
Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories
that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
> I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not
to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the
other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion
to what age group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54691 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
According to several sources, it is considered unlucky to have the nundinal day to be on the first day of the year.  According to the CP decretum on the perpetual calendar, Kal. Ian. is usually designated as 'A' which could be unlucky.



Just posting for informational purposes.



Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


-----Original Message-----
From: C. Curius Saturninus <c.curius@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 3780







Salvete,

A correction, if I may. CP has decided that the market day letter for
this year is A. This information was given to me at 24th of October
by pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius.

Valete,

On 9.1.2008, at 12:10, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 3e. Re: Wrong mensis Februarius.
> Posted by: "M. Lucretius Agricola" wm_hogue@...
> marcus_lucretius_agricola
> Date: Tue Jan 8, 2008 7:35 pm ((PST))
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>>
>> G. Petronius Dexter Aed. P. Memmio Albucio s.p.d.
>>
>
> [SNIP]
>
>>
>> The kalendae Januariae 2761 are a market day. If I did not make
>> mistake the nundinal letter is A.
>>
>> G. Petronius Dexter
>>
>
> Salve Dexter!
>
> I agree and I have used that on the main page. I did that because the
> script that puts up the IRC chat notices needs to have something.
> However, only what the CP says is official. So the nundinal letter is
> officially undecided but provisionally I am using A.
>
> They are probably meeting now to discuss this matter, but I have no
> way of knowing for certain. We can but wait and hope.
>
> Optime vale in cura deorum
>
> Agricola

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanpää)

Senator - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
thule.novaroma.org





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54692 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salve Q. Valeri Poplicola,

Thank you to point me this �fabulae�. I did already know some of them, although I didn�t knew that they were so ancient.

Vale optime bene.

C. Aemilius Crassus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: qvalerius <catullus.poeta@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 7:41:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.

The Phaedri Fabulae are excellent little stories to tell children.
Some come directly from Aesop, but others are Italian (or perhaps even
Thracian).

Q. Valerius Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of
Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of
Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories
that I think she isn���t ready to hear.
> I���m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not
to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the
other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion
to what age group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
>





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54693 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
SALVE MEMMI ALBUCI ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

> Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
> officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

> CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
> concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
> (de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)

> Article 3 – Aediles
>
> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
> Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.>>>

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for NR by
its Senate and not by its aediles curules.
You must reconsider this point.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Consul.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54694 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Two alternate sources for the Kalendarivm Romanvm!
Salvete Romani! Besides the Nova Roma Roman Calendar I
wanted to bring to everyones attention that in Italia
there has been published two Kalendarivm Romanvm for
Annvm MMDCCLXI a.v.c.! Both are in Italian, but of
high quality! The first is the 2008/MMDCCLXI
Calendario Romano issued by VICTRIX the publishing arm
of the A.R.Q. (Associazione Romania Qvirites). It is a
wall calendar listing all the Roman festivals and
illustrated. $20 U.S. will bring you a copy of this
from: Victrix, Associazione Romania Quirites, Corzso
Garribaldi 120 - 47100, Forli, Italy.
Also the Promagister Renato Del Ponte of
Italy's MTR organization has produced an excellent
Calendario Romano which I have not seen, but has been
highly recommended!!! Again though this in Italian for
those who understand the language. Contact the MTR
from their website address for more info on this!
Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs, PGI


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54695 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
C. Aemilius Crassus Iulio Iuliano SPD,

That it is exactly my opinion. If we as parents don�t pass the values of Roma Antiqua to our children then Nova Roma wouldn�t have much meaning. And while they are very young nothing better than �fabulae� and stories from ancient Roma.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:51:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.

Salvete Romani et Omnes! This is an excellent idea and
something that is vitally IMPORTANT for our
children!!! Story telling is just one aspect of the
whole picture of instilling ROMANITAS into our
children! IF we don't start early with Romanitas and
the Mos Maiorum and Via Vita Romana we WILL loose our
children to the so-called American values and culture
and have NO future generation of Romani to carry on!!!
I for one am NOT one of those who say they
will leave it up to the children to decide what faith
or religion they will be! In my Familia Romana the
children are being raised as Roman Pagans! They are
taught the Roman myths and stories about the Gods and
Goddesses. They attend the daily worship at the
Lararium, and are instructed in the Cultus Deorum, how
to pray and make offerings the traditional Roman Way
according to the Mos Maiorum. They are taught that
Familia and Gens are important!!! Amici, this is not
fantasy or make believe, the Religio and Romanitas are
for REAL and we must become a living example of it in
the modern world whether in Italy, America or where
ever true Romani exist! Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs,
Senior Paterfamilias Gentis Iuliae, U.S.A.
--- Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@ yahoo.com>
wrote:

> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to
> our 4 years old daughter before bed time. It is a
> time to calm her and also it is a time to be with
> her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk
> stories, on History happenings and Roman and Greek
> culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on
> the encounter of Oedipus with the Sphinx and the
> story of Theseus and the Minotaur Labyrinth.
> Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
> story of Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the
> Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or
> avoid some stories that I think she isn���t ready to
> hear.
> I���m not trying starting another debate on what it
> is proper or not to children since I think that is
> the solely responsibility of each parents, and also
> each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
> to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the
> same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and
> Greece are the other Nova Roman parents telling
> their children and in their opinion to what age
> group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
>
>
>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54696 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salve Iuli Calve,

You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story, nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.

Vale optime bene.

C. Aemilius Crassus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.

Salvete Omnes!

I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story about
this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my little
girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version of
the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et. al.)
Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
conversation that followed:

WIFE: "What's wrong?"
DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
WIFE: "About what?"
DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about stuff
like that!"
ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the Medusa's
head and..."
WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the monsters...and
now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH THERE
WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A HERO!!!
WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
ME: "Told you..."
DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my room so
I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"

I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.

For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her room.
She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her ones
with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she goes to
a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from the
other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll see the
Medusa head and get strength from that.

Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the girls have
to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe. It's
nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.

Valete!

T. IVL. CALVVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of
Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of
Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories
that I think she isn���t ready to hear.
> I���m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not
to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the
other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion
to what age group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
>





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54697 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salve Iuli Calve,

You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story, nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.

Vale optime bene.

C. Aemilius Crassus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.

Salvete Omnes!

I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story about
this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my little
girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version of
the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et. al.)
Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
conversation that followed:

WIFE: "What's wrong?"
DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
WIFE: "About what?"
DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about stuff
like that!"
ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the Medusa's
head and..."
WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the monsters...and
now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH THERE
WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A HERO!!!
WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
ME: "Told you..."
DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my room so
I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"

I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.

For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her room.
She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her ones
with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she goes to
a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from the
other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll see the
Medusa head and get strength from that.

Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the girls have
to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe. It's
nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.

Valete!

T. IVL. CALVVS

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of
Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of
Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories
that I think she isn���t ready to hear.
> I���m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not
to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be proper
to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the
other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion
to what age group are they proper.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
>





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54698 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salvete Calve et Crasse:
oh I had such a wonderful laugh! What a great & inspiring story;-)

I just created a page for you over at Nova Roma. Children(Nova Roma)
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Children_%28Nova_Roma%29

Please, put books and your wonderful story and recommendations for
other parents.
It would be a fabulous resource!
valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


>
> Salve Iuli Calve,
>
> You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story,
nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.
>
> Vale optime bene.
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell
to our children.
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story
about
> this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my
little
> girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
> anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version of
> the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et.
al.)
> Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
> uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
> conversation that followed:
>
> WIFE: "What's wrong?"
> DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
> WIFE: "About what?"
> DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
> WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
> ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
> WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about
stuff
> like that!"
> ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
> WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
> DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the
Medusa's
> head and..."
> WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
> DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the monsters...and
> now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH
THERE
> WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A
HERO!!!
> WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
> ME: "Told you..."
> DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my room
so
> I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"
>
> I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.
>
> For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her
room.
> She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
> monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
> wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her
ones
> with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she goes
to
> a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from
the
> other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll see
the
> Medusa head and get strength from that.
>
> Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the girls
have
> to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe. It's
> nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.
>
> Valete!
>
> T. IVL. CALVVS
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
> <septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
> >
> > I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old
> daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a
> time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> > I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History
> happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> > For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter
of
> Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
> Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
story of
> Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> > Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some
stories
> that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
> > I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or
not
> to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of each
> parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be
proper
> to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> > But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are
the
> other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their
opinion
> to what age group are they proper.
> >
> > Di vos incolumes custodiant.
> >
> >
> >
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> >
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54699 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-10
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salvete; I've filled the site in please enjoy!
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Children_%28Nova_Roma%29

There is a section for Bedtime Stories, Toys and Games and Songs.
optime valete
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Salvete Calve et Crasse:
> oh I had such a wonderful laugh! What a great & inspiring story;-)
>
> I just created a page for you over at Nova Roma. Children(Nova
Roma)
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Children_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Please, put books and your wonderful story and recommendations
for
> other parents.
> It would be a fabulous resource!
> valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
> >
> > Salve Iuli Calve,
> >
> > You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story,
> nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.
> >
> > Vale optime bene.
> >
> > C. Aemilius Crassus.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------
> > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to
tell
> to our children.
> >
> > Salvete Omnes!
> >
> > I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story
> about
> > this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my
> little
> > girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
> > anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version
of
> > the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et.
> al.)
> > Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
> > uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
> > conversation that followed:
> >
> > WIFE: "What's wrong?"
> > DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
> > WIFE: "About what?"
> > DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
> > WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
> > ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
> > WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about
> stuff
> > like that!"
> > ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
> > WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
> > DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the
> Medusa's
> > head and..."
> > WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
> > DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the
monsters...and
> > now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH
> THERE
> > WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A
> HERO!!!
> > WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
> > ME: "Told you..."
> > DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my
room
> so
> > I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"
> >
> > I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.
> >
> > For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her
> room.
> > She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
> > monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
> > wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her
> ones
> > with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she
goes
> to
> > a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from
> the
> > other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll
see
> the
> > Medusa head and get strength from that.
> >
> > Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the
girls
> have
> > to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe.
It's
> > nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.
> >
> > Valete!
> >
> > T. IVL. CALVVS
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
> > <septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
> > >
> > > I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years
old
> > daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it
is a
> > time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> > > I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on
History
> > happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> > > For example I have told her recently the story on the
encounter
> of
> > Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
> > Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
> story of
> > Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> > > Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some
> stories
> > that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
> > > I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper
or
> not
> > to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of
each
> > parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be
> proper
> > to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> > > But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are
> the
> > other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their
> opinion
> > to what age group are they proper.
> > >
> > > Di vos incolumes custodiant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> _______________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
> category=shopping
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54700 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
Dexter Aureliano SPD,

> According to several sources, it is considered unlucky to have the
>nundinal day to be on the first day of the year.

It was an old supestition but we have some examples in the ancient
calendar of years with the nundinal letter A. For example 52 BC.

>  According to the CP decretum on the perpetual calendar, Kal. Ian.
>is usually designated as 'A' which could be unlucky.

But it is not sure. We know only one example of a year A changed, the
year 40 BC. The first year A of the new Julian calendar was 43 BC.

Vale.

Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54701 From: Nabarz Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan.
Salve,

Here is another sample chapter for fun, hope you enjoy it :)

Feel free to pass on to other interested parties!

Regards,
Nabarz.

-----------------------------------------------

Act XII: Living like the pagan ancestors

Deep in the woods, in a hut surrounded by silver birch trees, the
`Pagan Woodcutters' moot is taking place. The beer, wine, mead and
spice are flowing. Oliphant, Corax, Bovine, Duck, and Pelican are all
sitting and chatting about living like their pagan ancestors.

Bovine: It would be great to live off the land, to farm it like our
ancestors, to dig and plough from dawn to dusk. To be close to the
land and see it transform as seeds turn to wheat.

Oliphant: Yeah, or plant fruit trees, and then pick themÂ…..

Pelican: Or live in caves, with the central fire, and go huntingÂ…..


Corax picks his beak from the wine glass. Thinking to himself: bugger
breaking one's back on ploughing a farm from dawn to dusk, or spending
all day in any weather condition picking apples, or live in a smelly
smoky cave and then run around with a bloody spear to get dinner.

Duck: It would be great to just live on the beach living off fishes.

Corax thinks well maybe but bloody mosquitoes, and did Duck never
watch `Lord of the Flies' or CastawayÂ…anyway you can't just live off
fish, your body needs other foods too.

Duck: Well Corax, would you like to live like your pagan ancestors?

Corax: Yes, it would be great to live like my pagan ancestors, I would
be living in my Roman Villa looking out onto green vineyards. Sitting
in my reclining seat on the marble balcony and being fed grapes and
sipping wine from my own vineyard. The spa and warm baths are only
around the corner, the chariot race on Saturdays; followed by a Roman
orgy in the evening. Yes, I think I could manage to live like the
pagan ancestors.

--------------------------------------------------
Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan
Available at http://www.lulu.com/content/1728442
------------------------------------------

>
> --- In NovaReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com, "Nabarz" <nabarz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I am also pleased to announce the launch of a new book,
> >
> > Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan.
> >
> > A dialectic play now available at:
> >
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/1728442
> >
> >
> > In this short collection of dialectic plays, Payam Nabarz uses the
> > Greek teaching method of `Socratic Dialogue' or the Irish Druids
> > `Colloquy' to take a down–to-earth look at contemporary spirituality.
> > In an easy to read and no-nonsense fashion he explores multi-faceted
> > mystical paths with references to popular cultural icons, making this
> > an accessible read for all seekers.
> >
> > This is a divine comedy that both enlightens you and has you rolling
> > on floor with laughter. If you enjoy the works of Terry Pratchett,
> > The Mighty Boosh or Mulla Nasreddin, this dialectic play will be an
> > enjoyable addition to your collection. This is the tale of the magical
> > journeys and adventures of a neophyte called Corax, and his initiator
> > the Goddess Morrigan. The Celtic Goddess Morrigan is the Goddess of
> > war, death, rebirth, change and justice - this is far more than Corax
> > expected at his initiation!
> >
> > Content:
> > Act I: Lammas.
> > Act II: The Autumnal Equinox.
> > Act III: Samhain.
> > Act IV: The Winter Solstice- Alban Arthan: the birth of the sun.
> > Act V: A Kali Puja: a magickal workshop.
> > Act VI: Imbolc.
> > Act VII: The Dance of Death.
> > Act VIII: Beltane 4play.
> > Act IX: An eclectic pagan's near-death experience.
> > Act X: Beltane.
> > Act XI: Justice for Rollright Stones.
> > Act XII: Living like the pagan ancestors.
> > Act XIII: The Towers of Silence.
> > Act XIV: The Magi's gifts.
> >
> > Review comments: Creative GeniusÂ… BrilliantÂ… HilariousÂ…
> >
> > Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan is available
from:
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/1728442
> >
> > Paperback book Price: £8.88.
> > or Download Price : £6.66.
> >
> > Printed: 53 pages, 6" x 9", perfect binding, cream interior paper (60#
> > weight), black and white interior ink, white exterior paper (100#
> > weight), full-colour exterior ink.
> >
> > I hope you enjoy reading it!
> >
> >
> > Payam Nabarz is author of `The Mysteries of Mithras: The Pagan Belief
> > That Shaped the Christian World' (Inner Traditions, 2005), and `The
> > Persian Mar Nameh: The Zoroastrian Book of the Snake Omens & Calendar'
> > (Twin Serpents, 2006). He is the editor of the `Mithras Reader: an
> > academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman and Persian Studies'
> > (Twin Serpents, 2006).
> >
> > Seasons greetings
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Nabarz.
> > http://www.myspace.com/nabarz
> >
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Nabarz" <nabarz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I am also pleased to announce the launch of a new book,
> >
> > Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan.
> >
> > A dialectic play now available at:
> >
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/1728442
> >
> >
> > In this short collection of dialectic plays, Payam Nabarz uses the
> > Greek teaching method of `Socratic Dialogue' or the Irish Druids
> > `Colloquy' to take a down–to-earth look at contemporary spirituality.
> > In an easy to read and no-nonsense fashion he explores multi-faceted
> > mystical paths with references to popular cultural icons, making this
> > an accessible read for all seekers.
> >
> > This is a divine comedy that both enlightens you and has you rolling
> > on floor with laughter. If you enjoy the works of Terry Pratchett,
> > The Mighty Boosh or Mulla Nasreddin, this dialectic play will be an
> > enjoyable addition to your collection. This is the tale of the magical
> > journeys and adventures of a neophyte called Corax, and his initiator
> > the Goddess Morrigan. The Celtic Goddess Morrigan is the Goddess of
> > war, death, rebirth, change and justice - this is far more than Corax
> > expected at his initiation!
> >
> > Content:
> > Act I: Lammas.
> > Act II: The Autumnal Equinox.
> > Act III: Samhain.
> > Act IV: The Winter Solstice- Alban Arthan: the birth of the sun.
> > Act V: A Kali Puja: a magickal workshop.
> > Act VI: Imbolc.
> > Act VII: The Dance of Death.
> > Act VIII: Beltane 4play.
> > Act IX: An eclectic pagan's near-death experience.
> > Act X: Beltane.
> > Act XI: Justice for Rollright Stones.
> > Act XII: Living like the pagan ancestors.
> > Act XIII: The Towers of Silence.
> > Act XIV: The Magi's gifts.
> >
> > Review comments: Creative GeniusÂ… BrilliantÂ… HilariousÂ…
> >
> > Divine Comedy of Neophyte Corax and Goddess Morrigan is available
from:
> > http://www.lulu.com/content/1728442
> >
> > Paperback book Price: £8.88.
> > or Download Price : £6.66.
> >
> > Printed: 53 pages, 6" x 9", perfect binding, cream interior paper (60#
> > weight), black and white interior ink, white exterior paper (100#
> > weight), full-colour exterior ink.
> >
> > I hope you enjoy reading it!
> >
> >
> > Payam Nabarz is author of `The Mysteries of Mithras: The Pagan Belief
> > That Shaped the Christian World' (Inner Traditions, 2005), and `The
> > Persian Mar Nameh: The Zoroastrian Book of the Snake Omens & Calendar'
> > (Twin Serpents, 2006). He is the editor of the `Mithras Reader: an
> > academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman and Persian Studies'
> > (Twin Serpents, 2006).
> >
> > Seasons greetings
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Nabarz.
> > http://www.myspace.com/nabarz
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54702 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: a. d. III Eidus Ianuarius: CARMENTALIA
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvam et servatam volunt

Hodie est ante diem III Eidus Ianuarias; haec dies comitialis est:
Carmentalia; Iuturnalia

"TheCarmentalia are so named because at that time there are
sacrifices and a festival of Carmenta." ~ M. Terrentius Varro, Lingua
Latinae 6.12

Carmentis is a Goddess of prophecy and childbirth, the inventor of
letters (as Minerva is the inventor of numbers), a Goddess of charms
and spells, songs and hymns, and ritual. Her soothing words ease the
pains of women in labor, heal the ill child, foretell the future of
brides and that of their children. Her two sisters, Postorta and
Porrima (or Porsa), accompany Her as the Carmenae or Carmentes (Aug.
CG 4.11). Porrima presides over natural birth when the infant
descends head first. Postversa presides over breach births (Gellius,
Attic Nights 16.16.4). In another form the Carmenae are Goddesses of
Prophecy where Postorta addresses the past and Porrima the future. As
the Parcae or the Fata Scribunda (Tert. An. 39.2), the Carmentes
record the fate of a child from birth until death. The Romans also
identified the Carmenae as the three Muses. In legend Carmentis was
a Nympha from Campania.

"So during the reign of Faunus, which was about sixty years before
Aeneas landed in Italy, Evander Arcas, who was the son of Mercury and
the Nymph Carmenta, arrived along with his mother. Some have recorded
for history that she was first called Nicostrate and later Garmenta,
from "songs" (carmina), and that this was of course because she was
extremely skilled in all letters and wise concerning the future, and
was accustomed to singing about these things in songs, to such an
extent that most prefer to think that it is not so much that she was
named Carmenta from the songs she sang, but rather that the songs
were named after her. By her advice Evander crossed over to Italy,
and because of her unique erudition and knowledge of letters they
made their way in a short time into a close friendship with Faunus.
Evander was welcomed by him hospitably and kindness and was given a
territory of land to cultivate, and no small one. He allocated this
land to his comrades and built homes on the hill, which was at that
time called Pallanteum by him, from Pallas; we now call it the
Palatine." ~ Sext. Aurelius Victor, Origo Gentis Romanae 5.1-3


Whether alone as Carmentis or else along with Her sisters, She was a
Goddess of ritualized speech. She was a patron Goddess of midwives
and mothers, since Her charms and incantations (carmina) were
primarily used in healing illnesses of women and children. A primary
examples of healing carmina, in versus Saturninus, is the Synache, a
charm for the cure of sore throats found in Marcellus Empiricus, De
Medicamentis 15.11:

EXI, <SI> HODIE NATA, SI ANTE NATA
SI HODIE CREATA, SI ANTE CREATA;
HANC PESTEM, HANC PESTILENTIAM,
HUNC DOLOREM, HUNC TUMOREM, HUNC RUBOREM,
HAS TOLES, HAS TOSILLAS,
HUNC PANUM, HAS PANUCLAS,
HANC STRUMAM, HANC STRUMELLAM,
HAC RELIGIONE EVOCO DUCO ExCANTO
DE ISTIS MEMBRIS MEDULLIS.

Come forth! Today Daughter, the One before the Daughter
Today created, before she was created,
This sickness, this disease,
This pain, this swelling, this redness,
This goiter, these tonsils,
This tumor, these little tumors,
This swelling gland, these swelling little glands,
With pious rite I call out, I summon; I entice with songs that You
come forth
From these limbs, from these bones, (from this body).


Iuturnalia

"The same light received you too, Juturna, Turnus' sister, there
where the Aqua Virgo circles the Campus." ~ Ovid, Fasti 1.463-464

Today also saw a festival for Iuturna. She was the nymph whose
fountain was near the Temple of Vesta and close to the Forum. A
temple was built and dedicated for her by Augustus in 2 BCE, and the
festival, which does not appear in any of the fasti, is thought to be
the anniversary of this dedication (Servius Honorus, Aeneis 12.139).

AUC 724 /29 BCE: Pax Romana

Following the Civil Wars and the war with Cleopatra, Caesar Augustus
closed the doors of the Janus geminus on the Forum to signify the
establishment of the Pax Romana.

Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 52:

"Friendship dances around the world bidding us all to awaken to the
recognition of happiness."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54703 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Aemilio Crasso quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
>
> I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years old daughter
> before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it is a time to be with her
> and to talk about many things.
> I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on History happenings
> and Roman and Greek culture.
> For example I have told her recently the story on the encounter of Oedipus
> with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur Labyrinth. Probably
> the next will be the story of Icarus, the story of Tarpeia and the story of
> the rape of the Sabine women.
> Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some stories that I
> think she isn¹t ready to hear.
> I¹m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper or not to children
> since I think that is the solely responsibility of each parents, and also each
> children is unique. Some stories may be proper to one child of 4 years old and
> not to other of the same age.
> But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are the other Nova
> Roman parents telling their children and in their opinion to what age group
> are they proper.
>
> ATS: How about Philemon and Baukis, or Androkles and the Lion, or the
> Sword of Damokles...though even the latter two might be too tame for a child
> who wants to slay monsters. There are plenty of two-legged ones in this
> world, but it takes an adult with guts to slay those.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> Messages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54676;



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54704 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: CARMENTALIA: Ritus Carmentis
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus flamen Carmentalis: Consuli Collegae
T. Iulio Sabino, flamini Martialis L. Equitio Cincinato Auguri,
Pontifici Maximo M. Cassio Iuliano et Pontificibus, Virgini Vestalis
Maximae Valeriae Mesallinae, Auguribus, Patribus Mátribusque
Conscriptís, Populo Novo Romano, Quiritibus, omnibusque: salutem
plurimam dicit:

Hoc agite!

Adeste dique hominesque sacris.
Ite procul, sacer est locus, ite profani!

Hus ades, Carmentis, sorores Porrima Postvortaque te adsint, anima
laeta veni, Mater Evanderi. Carmentis, te hoc turem obmoveo bonas
preces precor, ut sis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis
familisque nostris.

Carmentis, macte ista libatione pollicenda sint, macte lacti inferio
sint.

Mater clementissima per ego te frugiferam tuam dexteram istam
deprecor. In tua, Mater carissime, in tua sumus custodia. Carmentis.
te hoc popanae obmovendo bonas preces precor uti sis volens propitius
nobis liberisque nostri domis familisque nostri mactus hoc ferto.


[Piaculum]

Sancta Carmentis, Di Immortales, si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia
displicet, hoc vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.


Ilicet. Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia. Di deaeque omnes,
superi atque inferi, nos semper ament et felicitam volunt.

Vadete in pace Deorum.
____________

English translation:


Give your attention to this!

Come, be present, Gods and men, to these holy rites.
Go! Far from here, this is a sacred place, Go, you who are profane!

Come, be present, Carmentis. May Your sisters Porrima and Postvorta
attend You. With joyful mind come, Mother of Arcadian Evander.
Carmentis, I make this offering of incense to You and pray with good
prayers that You will look kindly and favorably upon our children and
upon us, on our homes and on our households.

Carmentis, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be
honored by this portion of milk.

O most merciful Mother, I pray for a blessing from Your generous and
temperate right hand. In You, dearest Mother, in Your hands we place
our safekeeping. In offering to You this cake of cheese I pray good
prayers in order that, pleased with this offering of popana, You may
be favorable towards our children and us, towards our homes and our
households.


[Piaculum]

Holy Carmentis, Immortal Gods, if anything in this ceremony is
displeasing to you, with this by this small portion of wine I ask
forgiveness and expiate my fault.


Thus it is done. May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it
is pious. May all the Gods and Goddesses above and below always love
us and wish us happiness in all that is good.

Go now in the peace of the Gods.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54705 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Aed. Albucius Cos. Sabino s.d.


>> Article 3 – Aediles

>> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
>> Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.>>>

>The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for NR by
>its Senate and not by its aediles curules.
>You must reconsider this point.

I am ready to discuss the question with you, Consul Sabine, as I have
been since these last days.

You have my private address and also this of our Cohors aediliciana.

Vale bene Consul,


P. Memmius Albucius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE MEMMI ALBUCI ET SALVETE!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
>
> > Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
> > officially sponsored by Nova Roma".
>
> > CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
> > concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
> > (de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)
>
> > Article 3 – Aediles
> >
> > The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
> > Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.>>>
>
> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for NR by
> its Senate and not by its aediles curules.
> You must reconsider this point.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
> Consul.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54706 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Aed. Memmius Equ. Curio omn.que. s.d.

I have answered privately to you on these points. A few informations
for our cives.

>First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR calendar
>in the sense he is mistakenly understanding the phrase.

Our Macellum pages did contain until yesterday, specially a promotion
picture, that **you** have inserted yourself on last Oct. 6, 2007.
This picture, as any may checked it, contains the fully
expression : "The Official Nova Roma calendar 2761".

The problem has been fixed now.

So I well note that, even if our CP has not issued its decree, you
have already known, in last **October**, that your product would
be "official" (sic).

I let everyone appreciate.

>My calendar is official NR calendar because the Senate (..)granted
>me a permission

The Senate has not intended to extend its exceptional intervention to
this year 2761. For this year, all the Macellum rules enter in the
aediles field, as normally.

>(Senate)which has the control over the NR logo and usage of the name
>Nova Roma,

The things are not similar. Definition and protection of our flag and
name are sovereign acts, as the decreeing of our public calendar.
This is why either the Senate, or the CP, rules this field.
Selling a calendar which copy the CP calendar, "just" giving it the
seller added value (which may be important, true) does not enter in
our key sovereign fields (as for ex. treaties, etc.).

>I have followed the data and information given by the representative
>of CP, and there is no realistic possibility that this data might
>change, indeed I suspect that it is not even possible anymore by the
>rules of CP.

This is why, even if this member is a very skilled one, we better
wait the decree of our whole Collegium Pontificum, chaired by our
Pontifex maximus, who has recently announced its soon session on the
calendar actualization. Just the CP decrees rules here.

> My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be. I
simply find it proper that
> project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask
and recieve the Senate's
> approval for using NR logo and name with it.

From the moment you have called your product "official", it is
supposed by everyone to be sponsored by NR.

You then just have to follow NR ordinary rules, as like any of our
citizens or here, sellers-Equites.

I am amazed that you keep looking using our Senate at your own
benefit, just to avoid our ordinary rules.

>Since the data is correct

Maybe they will be, but when the CP would have decreed and the
aediles have given everyone the guarantee that it is. You just have
to send the aediles your calendar. The sooner the better for you.

>and the Senate approval pending,

Here also, are you aware of a senatorial decision before the session
agenda is set ? I let again our citizens appreciate your idea of law.

>I must demand that the Aedile Albucius withdraws his warning against
>my service to the public,

Please send me asap, if this is your intention, a direct request.
I remind you that you have received, after our private exchanges, an
individual edict which informs you on how to obtain an "official"
label for 2761, as everyone who would wish to.

>and that the Tribunes veto his warning if he doesn't withdraw it.


Vale et valete omnes Novaromani,


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Sillanpää <c.curius@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Our Aedile has not been quite up-to-date about things lately.
>
> First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR calendar
in the sense he is
> mistakenly understanding the phrase. My calendar is official NR
calendar because the
> Senate, which has the control over the NR logo and usage of the
name Nova Roma, has
> granted me a permission to use that phrase to indicate that my
calendar is recognised as
> NR product of a NR citizen for citizens of NR.
>
> Anyhow my calendar does claim to be official NR calendar in the
sense our Aedile
> understands it for some reason. Everyone knows, and it says in the
calendar, that calendar
> data is supplied by the Collegium Pontificum. Also in my calendar
are indicated the
> sources of additional information that has been used.
>
> I have followed the data and information given by the
representative of CP, and there is no
> realistic possibility that this data might change, indeed I suspect
that it is not even
> possible anymore by the rules of CP.
>
> What is perfectly true is that I'm waiting for the Senate January
session to extend my
> permission to use the NR logo and name in my product. However that
cannot be hurried
> even with Aedile's edict.
>
> My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be. I
simply find it proper that
> project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask
and recieve the Senate's
> approval for using NR logo and name with it.
>
> Since the data is correct and the Senate approval pending, I must
demand that the Aedile
> Albucius withdraws his warning against my service to the public,
and that the Tribunes
> veto his warning if he doesn't withdraw it.
>
> Of Aedile's motivation for acting the way he has I say nothing more
that I have serious
> doubts.
>
> Valete,
>
> Saturninus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Aedilis Memmius omnibus s.d.
> >
> > WARNING about the sale of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
> >
> > As aedilis curulis in charge of the Macellum regulations, I feel
> > necessary to inform every possible consumer that the calendars
2761
> > (2008 cc) which might currently be proposed to sale cannot yet be
> > allowed the qualification of "official".
> >
> > Beyond the quality of these products, the fact is that our
Collegium
> > Pontificum has not yet issued its decree for 2761 auc precising
the
> > market and "mobile feriae" days. No one may issue such
publication,
> > but the Collegium Pontificum.
> >
> > Pontifex Maximus has announced that this calendar will be issued
soon.
> >
> > Until this day, and until we aediles be materially able to
certify,
> > for 2761, that the calendars sold by our Macellum sellers are
similar
> > to the announced public calendar, Nova Roma cannot give
> > any "official" label to such products.
> >
> > The consumer is fully free buying these products, specially for
their
> > other qualities, but will not be allowed claiming for Nova Roma's
> > responsibility if these calendars are not in due conformity with
the
> > coming Collegium Pontificum public calendar, the only official
one.
> >
> > The concerned sellers have been delivered these informations by
> > individual edict.
> >
> > Every seller (Eques) is reminded to contact the aediles curules
at:
> > NR_Cohors_aedilicia@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > in order to obtain, for one or several of her/his product(s)
already
> > sold in the Macellum or to be sold there, the "officially
sponsored
> > by Nova Roma" label/qualification.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for you attention,
> >
> >
> > Aedilis cur. Memmius
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54707 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Salve Maior,

The page looks very good. I�m going to order the Story of Romans and the Story of Greeks.

Vale optime bene.

C. Aemilius Crassus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Maior <rory12001@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:43:49 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.

Salvete; I've filled the site in please enjoy!
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Children _%28Nova_ Roma%29

There is a section for Bedtime Stories, Toys and Games and Songs.
optime valete
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Salvete Calve et Crasse:
> oh I had such a wonderful laugh! What a great & inspiring story;-)
>
> I just created a page for you over at Nova Roma. Children(Nova
Roma)
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Children _%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> Please, put books and your wonderful story and recommendations
for
> other parents.
> It would be a fabulous resource!
> valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
>
> >
> > Salve Iuli Calve,
> >
> > You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story,
> nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.
> >
> > Vale optime bene.
> >
> > C. Aemilius Crassus.
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
--
> ------------ -
> > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
--
> ------------ -
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to
tell
> to our children.
> >
> > Salvete Omnes!
> >
> > I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story
> about
> > this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my
> little
> > girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
> > anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version
of
> > the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et.
> al.)
> > Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
> > uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
> > conversation that followed:
> >
> > WIFE: "What's wrong?"
> > DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
> > WIFE: "About what?"
> > DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
> > WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
> > ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
> > WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about
> stuff
> > like that!"
> > ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
> > WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
> > DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the
> Medusa's
> > head and..."
> > WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
> > DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the
monsters...and
> > now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH
> THERE
> > WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A
> HERO!!!
> > WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
> > ME: "Told you..."
> > DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my
room
> so
> > I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"
> >
> > I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.
> >
> > For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her
> room.
> > She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
> > monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
> > wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her
> ones
> > with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she
goes
> to
> > a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from
> the
> > other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll
see
> the
> > Medusa head and get strength from that.
> >
> > Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the
girls
> have
> > to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe.
It's
> > nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.
> >
> > Valete!
> >
> > T. IVL. CALVVS
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
> > <septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
> > >
> > > I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years
old
> > daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it
is a
> > time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> > > I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on
History
> > happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> > > For example I have told her recently the story on the
encounter
> of
> > Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
> > Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
> story of
> > Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> > > Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some
> stories
> > that I think she isn���t ready to hear.
> > > I���m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper
or
> not
> > to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of
each
> > parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be
> proper
> > to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> > > But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are
> the
> > other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their
> opinion
> > to what age group are they proper.
> > >
> > > Di vos incolumes custodiant.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> ____________ ___
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
> category=shopping
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54708 From: Mikko Sillanpää Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NO WARNING about the SALES of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Albucius, I don't like at all that you are spreading false and inaccurate information in
public.

I have to address those points in your message:

> >First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR calendar
> >in the sense he is mistakenly understanding the phrase.
>
> Our Macellum pages did contain until yesterday, specially a promotion
> picture, that **you** have inserted yourself on last Oct. 6, 2007.
> This picture, as any may checked it, contains the fully
> expression : "The Official Nova Roma calendar 2761".
>
> The problem has been fixed now.
>
> So I well note that, even if our CP has not issued its decree, you
> have already known, in last **October**, that your product would
> be "official" (sic).


As I said, you have misunderstood what the term official means here. It simply means that
my calendar is recognised as official NR product. Nothing more, nothing less. That is
under sole jurisdiction of the Senate, you as Aedile have nothing whatsoever to do with
this case. You are interfering into area that you cannot interfere as an Aedile.

Also you have misunderstood many other things, amongst them that CP does not
announce each year separately that they are following the perpetual calendar. The
perpetual calendar in fact has been issued precisely to avoid that need, as it says in the
Decretum in question.


> The Senate has not intended to extend its exceptional intervention to
> this year 2761. For this year, all the Macellum rules enter in the
> aediles field, as normally.

There's no intervention. You as Aedile have no control over the NR trademarked NR flag
and usage of the name of the NR. Those are explicitly under the jurisdiction of the Senate.
It is you who is now doing the exceptional, and unacceptable, intervention and trying to
hijack from the Senate the powers to decide about something that even under
macronational law belongs to the Senate. You cannot decide about usage of trademarked
stuff even if you are elected as Aedile.

There is nothing extraordinary in my request, other manufacturers of merchandise are
free to ask same privilege for their products. Like for example the NR coins.


> > My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be. I
> simply find it proper that
> > project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask
> and recieve the Senate's
> > approval for using NR logo and name with it.
>
> From the moment you have called your product "official", it is
> supposed by everyone to be sponsored by NR.

I cannot see why anyone would think such thing. If it indeed would be sponsored by any
organisation it would be cheaper for everyone to buy. However I have always held as
principle that I will not ask nor recieve any sort of sponsorship from NR. NR has much
better use for its money.

The lack of sponsorship is also the very reason why I do the calendar. It was used to be
made by the Spanish citizens with generous sponsorship from certain company. When that
sponsorship was not renewed, they had to decide not to produce the calendar any more.
That is when I volunteered to produce it, because of its value for those citizens who wish
to live Roman life according to the Roman calendar.

I have now done calendars for 2006, 2007 and 2008. Three years of financial loss,
considerable workload and many jealous attacks by some citizens against me. Your pitiful
attack however is beyond my imagination and comprehension. I don't know if your
motivation is make me to stop producing the calendars so that you can start your own
business, or what. If it is however, be adviced that there is no profit to made from this.


> You then just have to follow NR ordinary rules, as like any of our
> citizens or here, sellers-Equites.
>
> I am amazed that you keep looking using our Senate at your own
> benefit, just to avoid our ordinary rules.

Well, Aedile, you are wrong with all this. I haven't got any special treatment from the
Senate, I have filed there my request and the Senate has voted upon it, according to the
rules and regulations. You are here looking for exception from the rules for yourself. As
even our Consul pointed out, you are doing something that you are not allowed to do.


> >and the Senate approval pending,
>
> Here also, are you aware of a senatorial decision before the session
> agenda is set ? I let again our citizens appreciate your idea of law.

Yes, I do place a high trust for that our Senate is fair in it decisions. I place my trust that
they as the legal trademark holder will grant an extension for the permission I have legally
obtained from them, and for which usage I think I have shown myself as trustworthy and
valuable asset of our community. I have no doubt that the Senate votes for approval.



> >I must demand that the Aedile Albucius withdraws his warning against
> >my service to the public,
>
> Please send me asap, if this is your intention, a direct request.

You have seen my appeal here and I have pointed out the irregularities and mistakes you
have made in it in my private email. Stop acting like a clown. I'm sure you have got all the
attention you migh get from this affair already.

Saturninus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54709 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Titus Flavius Aquila Publio Memmio Albucio salutem plurimam dicit

Salve Curule Aedile Albucius,

I welcome your edict on officially sponsored products, and I welcome the clarifications of your edict in general.

After all it is the Duty of the Curule Aedile to take care of the macellum and related items.

The domain of authority of the curule aediles includes:
Macellum
Magna Mater Project
Games (Nova Roma)


Optime vale
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 10. Januar 2008, 15:17:13 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products

Aed. P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.

Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Valete omnes,

Memmius.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
(de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)

I, Publius Memmius Albucius, aedilis curulis, by the authority vested
by the constitution, the laws and the Senate of Nova Roma, and in
view of them,

In order to allow the sellers to develop their transactions in the
Macellum and outside thanks to Nova Roma's support, and at the same
time to give every consumer a good confidence that the sold products
be faithful to the practices and recommendations of Nova Roma,

Edict :

Article 1 – Creation of a label

Nova Roma may give every product, sold in the Macellum by a duly
registered Eques, the "officially sponsored by Nova Rom" (in
latin : "Nova Roma sustenta/-um/ -us publice") label.

Article 2 – Label definition and limitations

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label guarantees to every
potential consumer that the product is faithful to the practices,
ethics, values and recommendations of Nova Roma.
This label, or qualification, does not give any other guarantee,
specially legal, on the quality of the product, its convenience, its
suitability, which are treated by the (macro-)national law applicable
to the transaction in which the product is sold to the consumer.

Article 3 – Aediles

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.
The word "aediles" may design, in the following articles, just one of
the aediles in office, according the way both aediles have decided to
organize their work.

Article 4 – Proceedings

The Eques (seller) wishing the granting of the "officially sponsored
by Nova Roma" label sends an electronic message request to the
aediles, at the address : NR_Cohors_aedilicia @yahoogroups. com.
This include an clear request for obtaining the label for a clearly
designed product sold by the Eques.
It also include any relevant information which may be useful for the
aediles to take their decision on the labellization, concerning :

- the identity and the status of the applicant Eques
- the applicant e-mail address
- the product itself
- why the "officially sponsored" label is requested for this product,

In a second time, the aediles may think necessary to give the
applicant seller their postal address(-es) so that the applicant can
send to the aediles the concerned product for examination.
The aediles ask the seller every question on the product that they
think useful. The applicant seller is recommended, naturally,
answering at best to each of these questions.

Article 5 – Label granting decision

The granting decision is taken by individual aedilician edict.
The aediles deliver electronically their decision to the applicant,
no later than one month after the reception, by the aediles, of the
product or, if its sending has not seemed necessary by the aediles,
one month after such a statement.
In case of silence kept by the aediles more than one month from one
of the alternative date abovementioned, the granting decision is
reputed negative.
In the last situation, the concerned seller may ask the aediles to
issue an individual edict, electronically delivered to the applicant
in the following month, explaining the reasons of their decision.

Article 6 – Sending proofs

It is recommended to the applicant seller to ask, when sending
his/her request or his/her product to the aediles, an electronic or
postal acknowledgment of receipt of this sending.

Article 7 – Appeal on the granting decision

No specific appeal on a negative aedilician decision will be
accepted, unless if an aedile does not deliver the edict mentioned in
article 5 above. In this case, the appeal may be presented no sooner
than 15 days after the date when the granting decision has been
considered implicitly negative.
Every appeal is examined by the aedile who has not issued the
decision.
Every Eques (seller) admits that the "officially sponsored" label is
an additional advantage granted by Nova Roma to her/his business, and
not a right linked to the Eques status. Every Eques thus accepts in
advance to renounce to other kind of specific appeal relative to the
frame of the present edict. General ordinary legal actions are
naturally available.

Article 8 – Use of the label

The seller (Eques) who has been granted for one of her/his product
the "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label may use it in the
Macellum or outside for any promotion, advertising, communication or
presentation of the product. The seller is thus authorized to precise
in her/his advertising, promotion, communication or presentation
documents, whatever be their support (real or virtual, texts, sounds,
drawings, pictures or movies etc.) that the product has obtained this
label. The seller may also insert the expression "officially
sponsored by Nova Roma" label on or in the product, as (s)he sees
fit, as far that (s)he considers that this insertion is not
prejudicial to the quality of the product, its image or every
consumer's expectations.

Article 9 – Withdrawal of the label

The aediles may, at any time, on their own initiative or on the
request of a citizen or a foreigner, withdraw a label.
Such a withdrawal is taken by individual edict, which states the
reasons of this withdrawal. These reasons may be in relation, among
others, to a modification of the product without previous agreement
of Nova Roma, to its relation with an event, individuals,
organizations or communications whose image, practices, ethics,
values or politics are contrary to the constitution and laws of Nova
Roma, to a hidden defect, or others events that do not allow Nova
Roma to keep on sponsoring the concerned product.
The aediles deliver electronically the withdrawal edict to the
concerned Eques, and publish it afterwards in the forum ("main list")
of Nova Roma as well as in the Macellum web pages.
A withdrawal decision legally authorize the aediles to withdraw from
the Macellum any advertising, promotion, communication or
presentation of the concerned product, whatever its support and kind
(text, sound, drawing, picture, movie etc.) which would still
contain, after the delivery of the withdrawal decision, the
mention "officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Article 10 – Appeal on a withdrawal decision

An appeal may be formed against the withdrawal decision, towards the
aedile who has not issued the withdrawal decision. This appeal does
not suspend, during the time of its examination and judgment, the
effects of the withdrawal decision.

Article 11 – Enforcement of this edict

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Category :Tabularium_ %28Nova_Roma% 29 and in
the relevant Novaroman lists.

Issued in Cadomagus, civ. Viducassium, Gaul, a.d. IV Idus MMDCCLXI
a.u.c. (10th January 2008 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Moravius
Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus.





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54710 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NR Official calendars 2761 a.u.c.
-Maior Memmio Saturninoque spd;
I've retitled the thread. Caius Curius Saturninus, has been my
dear friend for almost 5 years now. He is a person of great
integrity and the founder of Academia Thules. A wonderful person!

And I love his gorgeous calendar.

So please write to him privately and sort it out. I will be more
than happy to help. It is not right to cast false aspersions on his
reputation.

I admire Saturninus enormously; he is a classics graduate student,
who runs an online university, produces a Roman calendar, the only
one!, our podcast 'Vox Romana', he is one of the few cives who
produces real things for us.
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior
Senatrix
Questrix Albuco
producer 'Vox Roman' podcast
NRwiki articles:
Lar
Penates
Liber
Magna Mater
Cultus Apollonis
Sol
Fortuna
online temple to: Fortuna.
Saturnalia
Reading list for the cultus deorum
Roman Laws
Venus
Egeria
Children (Nova Roma)
Epicurus, Epicureans
Reading list for philosophy



>
> Aed. Memmius Equ. Curio omn.que. s.d.
>
> I have answered privately to you on these points. A few
informations
> for our cives.
>
> >First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR
calendar
> >in the sense he is mistakenly understanding the phrase.
>
> Our Macellum pages did contain until yesterday, specially a
promotion
> picture, that **you** have inserted yourself on last Oct. 6, 2007.
> This picture, as any may checked it, contains the fully
> expression : "The Official Nova Roma calendar 2761".
>
> The problem has been fixed now.
>
> So I well note that, even if our CP has not issued its decree, you
> have already known, in last **October**, that your product would
> be "official" (sic).
>
> I let everyone appreciate.
>
> >My calendar is official NR calendar because the Senate (..)
granted
> >me a permission
>
> The Senate has not intended to extend its exceptional intervention
to
> this year 2761. For this year, all the Macellum rules enter in the
> aediles field, as normally.
>
> >(Senate)which has the control over the NR logo and usage of the
name
> >Nova Roma,
>
> The things are not similar. Definition and protection of our flag
and
> name are sovereign acts, as the decreeing of our public calendar.
> This is why either the Senate, or the CP, rules this field.
> Selling a calendar which copy the CP calendar, "just" giving it
the
> seller added value (which may be important, true) does not enter
in
> our key sovereign fields (as for ex. treaties, etc.).
>
> >I have followed the data and information given by the
representative
> >of CP, and there is no realistic possibility that this data might
> >change, indeed I suspect that it is not even possible anymore by
the
> >rules of CP.
>
> This is why, even if this member is a very skilled one, we better
> wait the decree of our whole Collegium Pontificum, chaired by our
> Pontifex maximus, who has recently announced its soon session on
the
> calendar actualization. Just the CP decrees rules here.
>
> > My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be.
I
> simply find it proper that
> > project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask
> and recieve the Senate's
> > approval for using NR logo and name with it.
>
> From the moment you have called your product "official", it is
> supposed by everyone to be sponsored by NR.
>
> You then just have to follow NR ordinary rules, as like any of our
> citizens or here, sellers-Equites.
>
> I am amazed that you keep looking using our Senate at your own
> benefit, just to avoid our ordinary rules.
>
> >Since the data is correct
>
> Maybe they will be, but when the CP would have decreed and the
> aediles have given everyone the guarantee that it is. You just
have
> to send the aediles your calendar. The sooner the better for you.
>
> >and the Senate approval pending,
>
> Here also, are you aware of a senatorial decision before the
session
> agenda is set ? I let again our citizens appreciate your idea of
law.
>
> >I must demand that the Aedile Albucius withdraws his warning
against
> >my service to the public,
>
> Please send me asap, if this is your intention, a direct request.
> I remind you that you have received, after our private exchanges,
an
> individual edict which informs you on how to obtain an "official"
> label for 2761, as everyone who would wish to.
>
> >and that the Tribunes veto his warning if he doesn't withdraw it.
>
>
> Vale et valete omnes Novaromani,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> aed. cur.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Sillanpää <c.curius@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Our Aedile has not been quite up-to-date about things lately.
> >
> > First of all my calendar does not claim to be official NR
calendar
> in the sense he is
> > mistakenly understanding the phrase. My calendar is official NR
> calendar because the
> > Senate, which has the control over the NR logo and usage of the
> name Nova Roma, has
> > granted me a permission to use that phrase to indicate that my
> calendar is recognised as
> > NR product of a NR citizen for citizens of NR.
> >
> > Anyhow my calendar does claim to be official NR calendar in the
> sense our Aedile
> > understands it for some reason. Everyone knows, and it says in
the
> calendar, that calendar
> > data is supplied by the Collegium Pontificum. Also in my
calendar
> are indicated the
> > sources of additional information that has been used.
> >
> > I have followed the data and information given by the
> representative of CP, and there is no
> > realistic possibility that this data might change, indeed I
suspect
> that it is not even
> > possible anymore by the rules of CP.
> >
> > What is perfectly true is that I'm waiting for the Senate
January
> session to extend my
> > permission to use the NR logo and name in my product. However
that
> cannot be hurried
> > even with Aedile's edict.
> >
> > My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I wish it to be.
I
> simply find it proper that
> > project of such importance as calendar is for Roman life, to ask
> and recieve the Senate's
> > approval for using NR logo and name with it.
> >
> > Since the data is correct and the Senate approval pending, I
must
> demand that the Aedile
> > Albucius withdraws his warning against my service to the public,
> and that the Tribunes
> > veto his warning if he doesn't withdraw it.
> >
> > Of Aedile's motivation for acting the way he has I say nothing
more
> that I have serious
> > doubts.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Saturninus
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> <albucius_aoe@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Aedilis Memmius omnibus s.d.
> > >
> > > WARNING about the sale of "official" calendars 2761 a.u.c.
> > >
> > > As aedilis curulis in charge of the Macellum regulations, I
feel
> > > necessary to inform every possible consumer that the calendars
> 2761
> > > (2008 cc) which might currently be proposed to sale cannot yet
be
> > > allowed the qualification of "official".
> > >
> > > Beyond the quality of these products, the fact is that our
> Collegium
> > > Pontificum has not yet issued its decree for 2761 auc
precising
> the
> > > market and "mobile feriae" days. No one may issue such
> publication,
> > > but the Collegium Pontificum.
> > >
> > > Pontifex Maximus has announced that this calendar will be
issued
> soon.
> > >
> > > Until this day, and until we aediles be materially able to
> certify,
> > > for 2761, that the calendars sold by our Macellum sellers are
> similar
> > > to the announced public calendar, Nova Roma cannot give
> > > any "official" label to such products.
> > >
> > > The consumer is fully free buying these products, specially
for
> their
> > > other qualities, but will not be allowed claiming for Nova
Roma's
> > > responsibility if these calendars are not in due conformity
with
> the
> > > coming Collegium Pontificum public calendar, the only official
> one.
> > >
> > > The concerned sellers have been delivered these informations
by
> > > individual edict.
> > >
> > > Every seller (Eques) is reminded to contact the aediles
curules
> at:
> > > NR_Cohors_aedilicia@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > in order to obtain, for one or several of her/his product(s)
> already
> > > sold in the Macellum or to be sold there, the "officially
> sponsored
> > > by Nova Roma" label/qualification.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for you attention,
> > >
> > >
> > > Aedilis cur. Memmius
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54711 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
SALVE!

Before that discussion, whatever will be, public or private, you must understand one thing: is not my intention, as consul, to interfere with your area of responsibility as aedile. You can organize your job how you want and in conformity with your desire to fulfill your duties the best way possible.

For me this part of your edict: ' the "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova Roma by its aediles curules' is not clear enough. That recognition doesnÂ’t belong to the aediles area of responsibility, whatever the products are.

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS


Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

Aed. Albucius Cos. Sabino s.d.

>> Article 3 – Aediles

>> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
>> Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.>>>

>The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for NR by
>its Senate and not by its aediles curules.
>You must reconsider this point.

I am ready to discuss the question with you, Consul Sabine, as I have
been since these last days.

You have my private address and also this of our Cohors aediliciana.

Vale bene Consul,

P. Memmius Albucius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE MEMMI ALBUCI ET SALVETE!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
>
> > Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
> > officially sponsored by Nova Roma".
>
> > CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
> > concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
> > (de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)
>
> > Article 3 – Aediles
> >
> > The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
> > Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.>>>
>
> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for NR by
> its Senate and not by its aediles curules.
> You must reconsider this point.
>
> VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
> Consul.
>






"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54712 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell to our children.
Agricola Omnibus SPD

I am very happy to see this topic under discussion, as it forms part
of the larger topic of cultural narrative. This page:
http://novaroma.org/nr/Core_narrative is very much a work in progress.
I invite citizens to contribute, being mindful that copyrights should
always be respected. And as always, please join up at NRWiki and
discuss any *major* projects, just so that we can avoid duplication of
effort.

optime valete in cura deorum





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
<septemtrionis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Maior,
>
> The page looks very good. I'm going to order the Story of Romans and
the Story of Greeks.
>
> Vale optime bene.
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Maior <rory12001@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:43:49 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to tell
to our children.
>
> Salvete; I've filled the site in please enjoy!
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Children _%28Nova_ Roma%29
>
> There is a section for Bedtime Stories, Toys and Games and Songs.
> optime valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> >
> > Salvete Calve et Crasse:
> > oh I had such a wonderful laugh! What a great & inspiring story;-)
> >
> > I just created a page for you over at Nova Roma. Children(Nova
> Roma)
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Children _%28Nova_ Roma%29
> >
> > Please, put books and your wonderful story and recommendations
> for
> > other parents.
> > It would be a fabulous resource!
> > valete
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Salve Iuli Calve,
> > >
> > > You have a very special girl. And thanks for sharing this story,
> > nothing like a good laugh to lift the spirit.
> > >
> > > Vale optime bene.
> > >
> > > C. Aemilius Crassus.
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> --
> > ------------ -
> > > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> --
> > ------------ -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Titus Iulius Calvus <bryon@>
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:19:12 PM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Question: Roman and Greek stories to
> tell
> > to our children.
> > >
> > > Salvete Omnes!
> > >
> > > I'm raising my children in the Religio, and I have a great story
> > about
> > > this sort of thing. I also like to tell bedtime stories to my
> > little
> > > girls, aged 3 & 5. About 7-8 months ago, I couldn't think of
> > > anything, so I basically gave them the "Reader's Digest" version
> of
> > > the movie "Clash of the Titans." (You know, Medusa, Perseus, et.
> > al.)
> > > Anyways, at the end of the story, the 5 year old starts crying
> > > uncontrollably. My wife runs in, and here is essentially the
> > > conversation that followed:
> > >
> > > WIFE: "What's wrong?"
> > > DAUGHTER: "Dad...t-t-t- t-told us a st-st-st-story. .."
> > > WIFE: "About what?"
> > > DAUGHTER: "The M-m-m-medusa. .."
> > > WIFE: [Shoots dirty look at me]
> > > ME: "Just wait until you hear why she's crying..."
> > > WIFE: "Shh! She's crying because she's too young to hear about
> > stuff
> > > like that!"
> > > ME: "Just ask her why she's crying."
> > > WIFE: "Why are you crying, hon?"
> > > DAUGHTER: "Well, Daddy told us about how Perseus cut off the
> > Medusa's
> > > head and..."
> > > WIFE: [Gives husband WTF? look...]
> > > DAUGHTER: "...and now the heroes have killed all the
> monsters...and
> > > now I CAN'T KILL ANY MONSTERS CAUSE THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!! I WISH
> > THERE
> > > WERE MONSTERS AGAIN SO I COULD CUT OFF THEIR HEADS AND BE A
> > HERO!!!
> > > WAAHHHHHHHHH! !!!!"
> > > ME: "Told you..."
> > > DAUGHTER: "Daddy, can you find a monster and bring it into my
> room
> > so
> > > I can kill it? Please? WAAAHHHHH!"
> > >
> > > I kid you not. That's almost an exact transcript.
> > >
> > > For "Xmas" this year she received a statue of Minerva for her
> > room.
> > > She has a wooden sword hanging above her bed, just in case any
> > > monsters show up. And since she saw a Hercules movie where he was
> > > wearing leather bracers and wanted some really badly, I made her
> > ones
> > > with engraved Medusa-heads to wear to school. Even though she
> goes
> > to
> > > a secular private school, she often comes home with stories from
> > the
> > > other kids about "Baby Jesus" and "The Lord," so maybe she'll
> see
> > the
> > > Medusa head and get strength from that.
> > >
> > > Another thing we do in the house, is that every morning the
> girls
> > have
> > > to go to our Vesta frieze and ask her to keep the house safe.
> It's
> > > nothing formal, but it's a way for them to be involved.
> > >
> > > Valete!
> > >
> > > T. IVL. CALVVS
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gaius Aemilius Crassus
> > > <septemtrionis@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > C. Aemilius Crassus omnibusque SPD,
> > > >
> > > > I and my wife always try to tell a short story to our 4 years
> old
> > > daughter before bed time. It is a time to calm her and also it
> is a
> > > time to be with her and to talk about many things.
> > > > I usually prefer Portuguese and European folk stories, on
> History
> > > happenings and Roman and Greek culture.
> > > > For example I have told her recently the story on the
> encounter
> > of
> > > Oedipus with the Sphinx and the story of Theseus and the Minotaur
> > > Labyrinth. Probably the next will be the story of Icarus, the
> > story of
> > > Tarpeia and the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
> > > > Obviously I filter some parts of the stories or avoid some
> > stories
> > > that I think she isn’t ready to hear.
> > > > I’m not trying starting another debate on what it is proper
> or
> > not
> > > to children since I think that is the solely responsibility of
> each
> > > parents, and also each children is unique. Some stories may be
> > proper
> > > to one child of 4 years old and not to other of the same age.
> > > > But I would like to know what stories from Rome and Greece are
> > the
> > > other Nova Roman parents telling their children and in their
> > opinion
> > > to what age group are they proper.
> > > >
> > > > Di vos incolumes custodiant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > > > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > > http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > ____________ ___
> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> > http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?
> > category=shopping
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54713 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: NR Official calendars 2761 a.u.c.
Salve Maior! I agree 100% with you about Saturninus
and the Roman Calendar he has produced!!!:) He isn't
though the only one to produce a Kalendarium Romanum!
He has produced the only one in the English language
available. But in my posting on this list I mention
two other sources for Traditional Roman Calendars, one
from the MTR (Movimento Tradizionale Romano) and the
other from the ARQ (Associazione Romania Qvirites)
both published in Italia for 2761 A.V.C./2008! These
are illustrated wall calendars of high quality!
Saturninus is to be commended for his
excellent work for Nova Roma!!! Vale! Gaivs Ivlianvs
--- Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> -Maior Memmio Saturninoque spd;
> I've retitled the thread. Caius Curius
> Saturninus, has been my
> dear friend for almost 5 years now. He is a person
> of great
> integrity and the founder of Academia Thules. A
> wonderful person!
>
> And I love his gorgeous calendar.
>
> So please write to him privately and sort it out. I
> will be more
> than happy to help. It is not right to cast false
> aspersions on his
> reputation.
>
> I admire Saturninus enormously; he is a classics
> graduate student,
> who runs an online university, produces a Roman
> calendar, the only
> one!, our podcast 'Vox Romana', he is one of the few
> cives who
> produces real things for us.
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
> Senatrix
> Questrix Albuco
> producer 'Vox Roman' podcast
> NRwiki articles:
> Lar
> Penates
> Liber
> Magna Mater
> Cultus Apollonis
> Sol
> Fortuna
> online temple to: Fortuna.
> Saturnalia
> Reading list for the cultus deorum
> Roman Laws
> Venus
> Egeria
> Children (Nova Roma)
> Epicurus, Epicureans
> Reading list for philosophy
>
>
>
> >
> > Aed. Memmius Equ. Curio omn.que. s.d.
> >
> > I have answered privately to you on these points.
> A few
> informations
> > for our cives.
> >
> > >First of all my calendar does not claim to be
> official NR
> calendar
> > >in the sense he is mistakenly understanding the
> phrase.
> >
> > Our Macellum pages did contain until yesterday,
> specially a
> promotion
> > picture, that **you** have inserted yourself on
> last Oct. 6, 2007.
> > This picture, as any may checked it, contains the
> fully
> > expression : "The Official Nova Roma calendar
> 2761".
> >
> > The problem has been fixed now.
> >
> > So I well note that, even if our CP has not issued
> its decree, you
> > have already known, in last **October**, that your
> product would
> > be "official" (sic).
> >
> > I let everyone appreciate.
> >
> > >My calendar is official NR calendar because the
> Senate (..)
> granted
> > >me a permission
> >
> > The Senate has not intended to extend its
> exceptional intervention
> to
> > this year 2761. For this year, all the Macellum
> rules enter in the
> > aediles field, as normally.
> >
> > >(Senate)which has the control over the NR logo
> and usage of the
> name
> > >Nova Roma,
> >
> > The things are not similar. Definition and
> protection of our flag
> and
> > name are sovereign acts, as the decreeing of our
> public calendar.
> > This is why either the Senate, or the CP, rules
> this field.
> > Selling a calendar which copy the CP calendar,
> "just" giving it
> the
> > seller added value (which may be important, true)
> does not enter
> in
> > our key sovereign fields (as for ex. treaties,
> etc.).
> >
> > >I have followed the data and information given by
> the
> representative
> > >of CP, and there is no realistic possibility that
> this data might
> > >change, indeed I suspect that it is not even
> possible anymore by
> the
> > >rules of CP.
> >
> > This is why, even if this member is a very skilled
> one, we better
> > wait the decree of our whole Collegium Pontificum,
> chaired by our
> > Pontifex maximus, who has recently announced its
> soon session on
> the
> > calendar actualization. Just the CP decrees rules
> here.
> >
> > > My calendar is not sponsored anyhow by NR, nor I
> wish it to be.
> I
> > simply find it proper that
> > > project of such importance as calendar is for
> Roman life, to ask
> > and recieve the Senate's
> > > approval for using NR logo and name with it.
> >
> > From the moment you have called your product
> "official", it is
> > supposed by everyone to be sponsored by NR.
> >
> > You then just have to follow NR ordinary rules, as
> like any of our
> > citizens or here, sellers-Equites.
> >
> > I am amazed that you keep looking using our Senate
> at your own
> > benefit, just to avoid our ordinary rules.
> >
> > >Since the data is correct
> >
> > Maybe they will be, but when the CP would have
> decreed and the
> > aediles have given everyone the guarantee that it
> is. You just
> have
> > to send the aediles your calendar. The sooner the
> better for you.
> >
> > >and the Senate approval pending,
> >
> > Here also, are you aware of a senatorial decision
> before the
> session
> > agenda is set ? I let again our citizens
> appreciate your idea of
> law.
> >
> > >I must demand that the Aedile Albucius withdraws
> his warning
> against
> > >my service to the public,
> >
> > Please send me asap, if this is your intention, a
> direct request.
> > I remind you that you have received, after our
> private exchanges,
> an
> > individual edict which informs you on how to
> obtain an "official"
> > label for 2761, as everyone who would wish to.
> >
> > >and that the Tribunes veto his warning if he
> doesn't withdraw it.
> >
> >
> > Vale et valete omnes Novaromani,
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> > aed. cur.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Mikko Sillanpää
> <c.curius@>
=== message truncated ===



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54714 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
SALVE TRIBUNE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:

> After all it is the Duty of the Curule Aedile to take care of the
macellum and related items.>>>

I agree with you.

> The domain of authority of the curule aediles includes:
> Macellum
> Magna Mater Project
> Games (Nova Roma) >>>

What about "The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted
for Nova Roma by its aediles curules, according the following
rules."?
What is your opinion about this point?

VALE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54717 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2008-01-11
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Cato omnes in Foro SPD

Salvete.

I cannot find anything in our laws that would grant the Curule
Aediles the power to do what they have claimed by this edict. The
lex Constitutiva itself does not seem to afford them this broad an
application of their imperium, and no other legal instrument may
supersede the lex Constitutiva.

Only the Senate claims the prerogative to allow the use of our
trademarked logo, so it logically follows that only the Senate may
claim the right to "officially sponsor" a product, such an
endorsement being an extension of the right to use the logo/brand of
the Corporation. It also follows logically that the Senate could
*extend that right* to the Curule Aediles if it chose to do so, but
as of this date they have *not* done so.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54718 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Pridie Eidus Ianuarias
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est die pristini Eidus Ianuarias; haec dies comitialis est:

Beans in the religio Romana

"It is not customary for the flamen Dialis to touch, or even to name,
a she-goat, raw flesh, ivy, or beans." ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes
Atticae 10.15.12

"Why is the customary rule that those who are practicing holy living
must abstain from legumes? Did they, like the followers of
Pythagoras, religiously abstain from beans for the reasons which are
commonly offered, and from which vetch and chickpea suggest Lethe and
Erebus? Or is it rather because one must keep the body clean and
light for purposes of holy living and lustration?" ~ Plutarch,
Questiones Romanae 95

"In our ancient ceremonials, too, bean pottage (fabata) occupies its
place in the religious services of the Gods. Beans are mostly eaten
together with other food, but it is generally thought that they dull
the senses, and cause sleepless nights attended with dreams. Hence it
is that the bean has been condemned by Pythagoras; though, according
to some, the reason for this denunciation was the belief which he
entertained that the souls of the dead are enclosed in the bean: it
is for this reason, too, that beans are used in the funereal banquets
of the Parentalia. According to Varro, it is for a similar cause that
the Flamen abstains from eating beans: in addition to which, on the
blossom of the bean, there are certain letters of ill omen to be
found." ~ Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 18.12
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54719 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Beans in the religio Romana
Salve Marcus Horatius,

>Hence it is that the bean has been condemned by Pythagoras; though,
>according
> to some, the reason for this denunciation was the belief which he
> entertained that the souls of the dead are enclosed in the bean: it
> is for this reason, too, that beans are used in the funereal banquets
> of the Parentalia. According to Varro, it is for a similar cause that
> the Flamen abstains from eating beans:

Everyone is going to think that I am joking, but I seriously think that
beans were condemned by Pythagoras because beans give people gas. Let's face
it, beans of any kind do strange things to the stomaches of many people
including noisy gas or silent but smelly gas and the dreaded noisy and
smelly gas combined. And if the gas is bad enough it will cause sleepless
nights attended with dreams.

As for beans containing souls of the dead, well how many times have you been
near someone who passed wind and exclaimed or thought "Jeeez! It smells as
if someone died in here!".

Vale,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54720 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Salvete Quirites , salvete Romani,

I want to praise Aedilis Curulis Albucius for his hard work, for his professionalism and for his clear edict.

This edict was overdue .

Aedelis Curulis Albucius truely acts in the most Roman Way in enhancing the Macellum.

Please keep up your excellent work for Nova Roma, you do have my full support !

Thank you and may all Gods shine upon you

Optime vale
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM


----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 10. Januar 2008, 15:17:13 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products

Aed. P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.

Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Valete omnes,

Memmius.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
(de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)

I, Publius Memmius Albucius, aedilis curulis, by the authority vested
by the constitution, the laws and the Senate of Nova Roma, and in
view of them,

In order to allow the sellers to develop their transactions in the
Macellum and outside thanks to Nova Roma's support, and at the same
time to give every consumer a good confidence that the sold products
be faithful to the practices and recommendations of Nova Roma,

Edict :

Article 1 – Creation of a label

Nova Roma may give every product, sold in the Macellum by a duly
registered Eques, the "officially sponsored by Nova Rom" (in
latin : "Nova Roma sustenta/-um/ -us publice") label.

Article 2 – Label definition and limitations

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label guarantees to every
potential consumer that the product is faithful to the practices,
ethics, values and recommendations of Nova Roma.
This label, or qualification, does not give any other guarantee,
specially legal, on the quality of the product, its convenience, its
suitability, which are treated by the (macro-)national law applicable
to the transaction in which the product is sold to the consumer.

Article 3 – Aediles

The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.
The word "aediles" may design, in the following articles, just one of
the aediles in office, according the way both aediles have decided to
organize their work.

Article 4 – Proceedings

The Eques (seller) wishing the granting of the "officially sponsored
by Nova Roma" label sends an electronic message request to the
aediles, at the address : NR_Cohors_aedilicia @yahoogroups. com.
This include an clear request for obtaining the label for a clearly
designed product sold by the Eques.
It also include any relevant information which may be useful for the
aediles to take their decision on the labellization, concerning :

- the identity and the status of the applicant Eques
- the applicant e-mail address
- the product itself
- why the "officially sponsored" label is requested for this product,

In a second time, the aediles may think necessary to give the
applicant seller their postal address(-es) so that the applicant can
send to the aediles the concerned product for examination.
The aediles ask the seller every question on the product that they
think useful. The applicant seller is recommended, naturally,
answering at best to each of these questions.

Article 5 – Label granting decision

The granting decision is taken by individual aedilician edict.
The aediles deliver electronically their decision to the applicant,
no later than one month after the reception, by the aediles, of the
product or, if its sending has not seemed necessary by the aediles,
one month after such a statement.
In case of silence kept by the aediles more than one month from one
of the alternative date abovementioned, the granting decision is
reputed negative.
In the last situation, the concerned seller may ask the aediles to
issue an individual edict, electronically delivered to the applicant
in the following month, explaining the reasons of their decision.

Article 6 – Sending proofs

It is recommended to the applicant seller to ask, when sending
his/her request or his/her product to the aediles, an electronic or
postal acknowledgment of receipt of this sending.

Article 7 – Appeal on the granting decision

No specific appeal on a negative aedilician decision will be
accepted, unless if an aedile does not deliver the edict mentioned in
article 5 above. In this case, the appeal may be presented no sooner
than 15 days after the date when the granting decision has been
considered implicitly negative.
Every appeal is examined by the aedile who has not issued the
decision.
Every Eques (seller) admits that the "officially sponsored" label is
an additional advantage granted by Nova Roma to her/his business, and
not a right linked to the Eques status. Every Eques thus accepts in
advance to renounce to other kind of specific appeal relative to the
frame of the present edict. General ordinary legal actions are
naturally available.

Article 8 – Use of the label

The seller (Eques) who has been granted for one of her/his product
the "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label may use it in the
Macellum or outside for any promotion, advertising, communication or
presentation of the product. The seller is thus authorized to precise
in her/his advertising, promotion, communication or presentation
documents, whatever be their support (real or virtual, texts, sounds,
drawings, pictures or movies etc.) that the product has obtained this
label. The seller may also insert the expression "officially
sponsored by Nova Roma" label on or in the product, as (s)he sees
fit, as far that (s)he considers that this insertion is not
prejudicial to the quality of the product, its image or every
consumer's expectations.

Article 9 – Withdrawal of the label

The aediles may, at any time, on their own initiative or on the
request of a citizen or a foreigner, withdraw a label.
Such a withdrawal is taken by individual edict, which states the
reasons of this withdrawal. These reasons may be in relation, among
others, to a modification of the product without previous agreement
of Nova Roma, to its relation with an event, individuals,
organizations or communications whose image, practices, ethics,
values or politics are contrary to the constitution and laws of Nova
Roma, to a hidden defect, or others events that do not allow Nova
Roma to keep on sponsoring the concerned product.
The aediles deliver electronically the withdrawal edict to the
concerned Eques, and publish it afterwards in the forum ("main list")
of Nova Roma as well as in the Macellum web pages.
A withdrawal decision legally authorize the aediles to withdraw from
the Macellum any advertising, promotion, communication or
presentation of the concerned product, whatever its support and kind
(text, sound, drawing, picture, movie etc.) which would still
contain, after the delivery of the withdrawal decision, the
mention "officially sponsored by Nova Roma".

Article 10 – Appeal on a withdrawal decision

An appeal may be formed against the withdrawal decision, towards the
aedile who has not issued the withdrawal decision. This appeal does
not suspend, during the time of its examination and judgment, the
effects of the withdrawal decision.

Article 11 – Enforcement of this edict

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Category :Tabularium_ %28Nova_Roma% 29 and in
the relevant Novaroman lists.

Issued in Cadomagus, civ. Viducassium, Gaul, a.d. IV Idus MMDCCLXI
a.u.c. (10th January 2008 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Moravius
Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus.





__________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54721 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Quirites , salvete Romani,
>
> I want to praise Aedilis Curulis Albucius for his hard work, for his
professionalism and for his clear edict.
>
> This edict was overdue .
>
> Aedelis Curulis Albucius truely acts in the most Roman Way in
enhancing the Macellum.
>
> Please keep up your excellent work for Nova Roma, you do have my
full support !
>
> Thank you and may all Gods shine upon you
>
> Optime vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
>
>

Dear Tribunus
ONLY the Senate as the BOD of the Corporation, can give the OK to use
NR trademarks.the Aedilis Curulis does not have that grant of power in
NR law or usa law.as we are a Corporation under the laws of the USA
and the state of maine, it follows that the people with the power over
the trademarks( the BOD{Senate})are the people to say that it is
"officially sponsored " now the Aedilis Curulis can set up rules for
how stuff is sold at the NR market ,and thats where the grant of power
to that office ends.
I.E. If the rules of the Macellum you can sell things in the only that
are officially sponsored all fine and cool BUT to get that lag of
"officially sponsored" you have to go to the BOD of the Corporation
in this case the Senate.

Vale
marcus Cornelius felix













> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 10. Januar 2008, 15:17:13 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
>
> Aed. P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.
>
> Please find below the following aedilician edict on "the products
> officially sponsored by Nova Roma".
>
> Valete omnes,
>
> Memmius.
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> CURULE AEDILE P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT (n° 61-05)
> concerning the products officially sponsored by Nova Roma
> (de Nova Roma sustentis publice venaliis)
>
> I, Publius Memmius Albucius, aedilis curulis, by the authority vested
> by the constitution, the laws and the Senate of Nova Roma, and in
> view of them,
>
> In order to allow the sellers to develop their transactions in the
> Macellum and outside thanks to Nova Roma's support, and at the same
> time to give every consumer a good confidence that the sold products
> be faithful to the practices and recommendations of Nova Roma,
>
> Edict :
>
> Article 1 â€" Creation of a label
>
> Nova Roma may give every product, sold in the Macellum by a duly
> registered Eques, the "officially sponsored by Nova Rom" (in
> latin : "Nova Roma sustenta/-um/ -us publice") label.
>
> Article 2 â€" Label definition and limitations
>
> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label guarantees to every
> potential consumer that the product is faithful to the practices,
> ethics, values and recommendations of Nova Roma.
> This label, or qualification, does not give any other guarantee,
> specially legal, on the quality of the product, its convenience, its
> suitability, which are treated by the (macro-)national law applicable
> to the transaction in which the product is sold to the consumer.
>
> Article 3 â€" Aediles
>
> The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
> Roma by its aediles curules, according the following rules.
> The word "aediles" may design, in the following articles, just one of
> the aediles in office, according the way both aediles have decided to
> organize their work.
>
> Article 4 â€" Proceedings
>
> The Eques (seller) wishing the granting of the "officially sponsored
> by Nova Roma" label sends an electronic message request to the
> aediles, at the address : NR_Cohors_aedilicia @yahoogroups. com.
> This include an clear request for obtaining the label for a clearly
> designed product sold by the Eques.
> It also include any relevant information which may be useful for the
> aediles to take their decision on the labellization, concerning :
>
> - the identity and the status of the applicant Eques
> - the applicant e-mail address
> - the product itself
> - why the "officially sponsored" label is requested for this product,
>
> In a second time, the aediles may think necessary to give the
> applicant seller their postal address(-es) so that the applicant can
> send to the aediles the concerned product for examination.
> The aediles ask the seller every question on the product that they
> think useful. The applicant seller is recommended, naturally,
> answering at best to each of these questions.
>
> Article 5 â€" Label granting decision
>
> The granting decision is taken by individual aedilician edict.
> The aediles deliver electronically their decision to the applicant,
> no later than one month after the reception, by the aediles, of the
> product or, if its sending has not seemed necessary by the aediles,
> one month after such a statement.
> In case of silence kept by the aediles more than one month from one
> of the alternative date abovementioned, the granting decision is
> reputed negative.
> In the last situation, the concerned seller may ask the aediles to
> issue an individual edict, electronically delivered to the applicant
> in the following month, explaining the reasons of their decision.
>
> Article 6 â€" Sending proofs
>
> It is recommended to the applicant seller to ask, when sending
> his/her request or his/her product to the aediles, an electronic or
> postal acknowledgment of receipt of this sending.
>
> Article 7 â€" Appeal on the granting decision
>
> No specific appeal on a negative aedilician decision will be
> accepted, unless if an aedile does not deliver the edict mentioned in
> article 5 above. In this case, the appeal may be presented no sooner
> than 15 days after the date when the granting decision has been
> considered implicitly negative.
> Every appeal is examined by the aedile who has not issued the
> decision.
> Every Eques (seller) admits that the "officially sponsored" label is
> an additional advantage granted by Nova Roma to her/his business, and
> not a right linked to the Eques status. Every Eques thus accepts in
> advance to renounce to other kind of specific appeal relative to the
> frame of the present edict. General ordinary legal actions are
> naturally available.
>
> Article 8 â€" Use of the label
>
> The seller (Eques) who has been granted for one of her/his product
> the "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label may use it in the
> Macellum or outside for any promotion, advertising, communication or
> presentation of the product. The seller is thus authorized to precise
> in her/his advertising, promotion, communication or presentation
> documents, whatever be their support (real or virtual, texts, sounds,
> drawings, pictures or movies etc.) that the product has obtained this
> label. The seller may also insert the expression "officially
> sponsored by Nova Roma" label on or in the product, as (s)he sees
> fit, as far that (s)he considers that this insertion is not
> prejudicial to the quality of the product, its image or every
> consumer's expectations.
>
> Article 9 â€" Withdrawal of the label
>
> The aediles may, at any time, on their own initiative or on the
> request of a citizen or a foreigner, withdraw a label.
> Such a withdrawal is taken by individual edict, which states the
> reasons of this withdrawal. These reasons may be in relation, among
> others, to a modification of the product without previous agreement
> of Nova Roma, to its relation with an event, individuals,
> organizations or communications whose image, practices, ethics,
> values or politics are contrary to the constitution and laws of Nova
> Roma, to a hidden defect, or others events that do not allow Nova
> Roma to keep on sponsoring the concerned product.
> The aediles deliver electronically the withdrawal edict to the
> concerned Eques, and publish it afterwards in the forum ("main list")
> of Nova Roma as well as in the Macellum web pages.
> A withdrawal decision legally authorize the aediles to withdraw from
> the Macellum any advertising, promotion, communication or
> presentation of the concerned product, whatever its support and kind
> (text, sound, drawing, picture, movie etc.) which would still
> contain, after the delivery of the withdrawal decision, the
> mention "officially sponsored by Nova Roma".
>
> Article 10 â€" Appeal on a withdrawal decision
>
> An appeal may be formed against the withdrawal decision, towards the
> aedile who has not issued the withdrawal decision. This appeal does
> not suspend, during the time of its examination and judgment, the
> effects of the withdrawal decision.
>
> Article 11 â€" Enforcement of this edict
>
> Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
> as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
> published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Category :Tabularium_ %28Nova_Roma% 29
and in
> the relevant Novaroman lists.
>
> Issued in Cadomagus, civ. Viducassium, Gaul, a.d. IV Idus MMDCCLXI
> a.u.c. (10th January 2008 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Moravius
> Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________ Ihr erstes Baby? Holen
Sie sich Tipps von anderen Eltern. www.yahoo.de/clever
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54722 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Maior Piscino Aventiae spd;
speaking as the local Pythagorean, this is my area of interest.
Cicero made the same claim that beans disturbed tranquilliatas.
Modern scholars point out beans & other food taboos among
Pythagoreans were the same as those in Greek ritual magic and dream
oracles..this is from Peter Kingsley. I have to run out now, but
I'll be back later with references.
M. Hortensia Maior
>
> Salve Marcus Horatius,
>
> >Hence it is that the bean has been condemned by Pythagoras;
though,
> >according
> > to some, the reason for this denunciation was the belief which he
> > entertained that the souls of the dead are enclosed in the bean:
it
> > is for this reason, too, that beans are used in the funereal
banquets
> > of the Parentalia. According to Varro, it is for a similar cause
that
> > the Flamen abstains from eating beans:
>
> Everyone is going to think that I am joking, but I seriously think
that
> beans were condemned by Pythagoras because beans give people gas.
Let's face
> it, beans of any kind do strange things to the stomaches of many
people
> including noisy gas or silent but smelly gas and the dreaded noisy
and
> smelly gas combined. And if the gas is bad enough it will cause
sleepless
> nights attended with dreams.
>
> As for beans containing souls of the dead, well how many times
have you been
> near someone who passed wind and exclaimed or thought "Jeeez! It
smells as
> if someone died in here!".
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54723 From: P. Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: You need to reconsider
Aed. cur. Memmius Consuli Moravio s.d.

Yes, consul, my edict is again precedence, just because previous aediles and one consul, two years ago have wished bringing our Senate to take un unseful competency, which in no way increase its auctoritas, and will give our citizens the impression that in some circumstances, a citizen has more opportunities to obtain benefits if he belongs to the Senate, and have his interests protected by his/her friends in the Curia.

As you have well noted, I have still affirmed, contrary to what you may think, dear Moravius, that the Senate, as guardian of the sovereignty of Nova Roma, was fully in its place controlling NR name itself and the logo. Again, I will underline that we are here in a commercial field, which is just about giving a benefit to a seller.

I am very glad that our Censor Galerius, who was not in the best relations with Curius, has been touched by what a previous praetor would probably call "grace", and is now supporting Curius's interests. My intervention would have, at least, provoked a positive event.

I have however read nothing that may modify my analysis. I have answered every argument that the selling senator, with his friends and supports, have brought forward.

In supporting the "senatorial competency thesis", I frankly believe that your consulate is loosing a good opportunity to bring things back to a normal and historically conform situation.

I fully understand that your now known position, that I had asked you a few days ago, is largely based on political considerations, what I respect because this is an expectable way to act for consuls.

As however I have read, in my humble opinion, no legal founded argument, I will not withdraw my edict, preferring being in full agreement with my conscience, my legal analysis and what I do think better for the safe of our res publica.


I have taken good notice of your intent vetoing it. I share on this point our Pater Patriae Vedius' opinion : our institutions are to work, and consuls have the full right to veto a lower magistrate's act, and not necessary seek the Senate support before acting.


I would not be true to my whole previous considerations if I did not support the idea that the more our laws are applied, the best it is.

So, veto, Consul, before the delay is over, and do not hesitate, taking your responsibility for the consulate. Courage is a so not often word, in our res publica, and your intercessio will give it some renewal. And even if you have forgotten the "vale", at the end of your letter, you will keep my respect, Consul. ;-)



Vale Consul,



P. Memmius Albucius








----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Horatius
To: P. Memmius Albucius ; iulius sabinus
Cc: c.curius@... ; tvogel@...
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: You need to reconsider


M Moravius Piscinus Consul P. Memmio Albucio Aedili Curule SPD:

I ask that you immediately withdraw your edictum. I agree with my collaegue that your edictum is contrary to precedence and Nova Roma law that places in the Senate alone the authority of granting use of Nova Roma's logo and name. The Aediles can be said to have authority to monitor merchants in the Macellum with regard to this issue of use of the name and logo, and I have supported you so far in that authority. But your edictum is in error in claiming a power for the Aediles Curules to authorize the use of Nova Roma's name or logo.

As the edictum is currently written, I regret that the Consules shall have to impose their intercessio. Instead I will give you the opportunity to withdraw the edictum so that it may be rewritten to an acceptable form.

I have been asked by Censor Ti. Galerius to include in the Januray Agenda an Item granting Senator Saturninus permission to use the Nova Roma name and logo, and thereby be allowed to advertise his calendar as the "official Nova Roma calendar" for a period of five years, 2007-2012. I am taking that suggestion into consideration, but it will not resolve this issue.

Either the Senate or the Aediles have the power to grant authority to use the Nova Roma name and logo. Both Consules and the Senate, by its past actions, agree that it is the Senate alone that has such authority. I therefore ask again that you defer to the Consules' opinion and withdraw your edictum Aedilis.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54724 From: Vedius Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnes in Foro SPD
>
> Salvete.
>
> I cannot find anything in our laws that would grant the Curule
> Aediles the power to do what they have claimed by this edict. The
> lex Constitutiva itself does not seem to afford them this broad an
> application of their imperium, and no other legal instrument may
> supersede the lex Constitutiva.

I must disagree in this instance. The lex Constitutiva (an
interesting construction of terminology, that!) does indeed provide
the Curule Aediles authority to issue edicta in the furtherance of
their assigned duties. Those duties include, specifically:

"To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
commerce within Nova Roma property."

From my reading of the issue, what the Aedile has done falls under
that category perfectly, assuming that the website is included in the
definition of "venues ... within Nova Roma property."

The Aedile has the right to issue an edictum to regulate trade. It is
only the substance of that edictum which is in question, as you point
out below:

> Only the Senate claims the prerogative to allow the use of our
> trademarked logo, so it logically follows that only the Senate may
> claim the right to "officially sponsor" a product, such an
> endorsement being an extension of the right to use the logo/brand of
> the Corporation. It also follows logically that the Senate could
> *extend that right* to the Curule Aediles if it chose to do so, but
> as of this date they have *not* done so.

I confess I must once again disagree. The Senate has not claimed the
right, to my knowledge, to "officially sponsor" a product. What it
has done is to regulate use of Nova Roma's trademarked insignia. That
is not the same thing at all.

I do not agree that it "naturally follows" that protection of a logo
necessarily implies protection of "official sponsorship". The two are
entirely different animals; one is a particular image protected by
macronational law, the other is the implied imprimatur of the res
publica. Very different, indeed.

If the Senate had intended to keep as its prerogative the use of the
phrase "officially sponsored", then it would seem to me it would have
included such language in a Senatus Consultum. To assume its
existence in the face of its stark and utter absence seems to me to
be quite a stretch. As I indicate, to my knowledge no such S.C. has
ever been voted on, let alone passed. (If such a Senatus Consultum
exists, then I humbly apologize in advance and withdraw this
particular argument.)

If the Senate should, in the future, see fit to correct this
oversight then it would absolutely override the edictum of the
Aedile. However, until such time as that happens, the responsibility
for overriding, cancelling, or altering the Aedile's edictum would
rest with the Praetores or Consules, whose own edicta outweigh those
of the Aediles.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54725 From: Neil (L. Salix) Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Oath of Office - Quaestor L. Salix Cicero
Salvete,

I'm sorry for the delay in posting my oath. I haven't had access to the internet since 25th December.

I, Lucius Salix Cicero (Neil Egginton) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Salix Cicero swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Lucius Salix Cicero swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Lucius Salix Cicero swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Lucius Salix Cicero further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Quaestor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Quaestor and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Valete
L. Salix









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54727 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
-Maior Quiritibus spd;
apart from Roma Antiqua, we have the problem that Nova
Roma is a U.S. registered non-profit charity with a trademarked
logo 'Nova Roma' the flag and name.

In businesses, you need authorization usually by the board
of directors or the corporation's in-house lawyer who sends the
request to the CEO (chief operating officer) to use a business'
trademark.
Nova Roma's Senate is the legal Board of Directors of Nova
Roma, the non-profit org. So it is entirely appropriate as a
business measure to have Senate authorization.

I wrote to Albucius and I still don't understand the fuss. It would
grind business to a halt in Nova Roma, plus I hate to think of
personal interests if every single year a business with the NR logo
was hostage to 2 curule aediles' permission.

That this happened to Caius Curius Saturninus, a truly devoted civis
who had done so much and gives so much to NR; that his good name was
impugned, illustrates what a poor idea this edictum was.

optime vale
Marca Hortensia Maior



-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Vedius" <vedius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
> <mlcinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato omnes in Foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > I cannot find anything in our laws that would grant the Curule
> > Aediles the power to do what they have claimed by this edict. The
> > lex Constitutiva itself does not seem to afford them this broad
an
> > application of their imperium, and no other legal instrument may
> > supersede the lex Constitutiva.
>
> I must disagree in this instance. The lex Constitutiva (an
> interesting construction of terminology, that!) does indeed
provide
> the Curule Aediles authority to issue edicta in the furtherance of
> their assigned duties. Those duties include, specifically:
>
> "To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
> commerce within Nova Roma property."
>
> From my reading of the issue, what the Aedile has done falls under
> that category perfectly, assuming that the website is included in
the
> definition of "venues ... within Nova Roma property."
>
> The Aedile has the right to issue an edictum to regulate trade. It
is
> only the substance of that edictum which is in question, as you
point
> out below:
>
> > Only the Senate claims the prerogative to allow the use of our
> > trademarked logo, so it logically follows that only the Senate
may
> > claim the right to "officially sponsor" a product, such an
> > endorsement being an extension of the right to use the
logo/brand of
> > the Corporation. It also follows logically that the Senate could
> > *extend that right* to the Curule Aediles if it chose to do so,
but
> > as of this date they have *not* done so.
>
> I confess I must once again disagree. The Senate has not claimed
the
> right, to my knowledge, to "officially sponsor" a product. What it
> has done is to regulate use of Nova Roma's trademarked insignia.
That
> is not the same thing at all.
>
> I do not agree that it "naturally follows" that protection of a
logo
> necessarily implies protection of "official sponsorship". The two
are
> entirely different animals; one is a particular image protected by
> macronational law, the other is the implied imprimatur of the res
> publica. Very different, indeed.
>
> If the Senate had intended to keep as its prerogative the use of
the
> phrase "officially sponsored", then it would seem to me it would
have
> included such language in a Senatus Consultum. To assume its
> existence in the face of its stark and utter absence seems to me
to
> be quite a stretch. As I indicate, to my knowledge no such S.C.
has
> ever been voted on, let alone passed. (If such a Senatus Consultum
> exists, then I humbly apologize in advance and withdraw this
> particular argument.)
>
> If the Senate should, in the future, see fit to correct this
> oversight then it would absolutely override the edictum of the
> Aedile. However, until such time as that happens, the
responsibility
> for overriding, cancelling, or altering the Aedile's edictum would
> rest with the Praetores or Consules, whose own edicta outweigh
those
> of the Aediles.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> Pater Patriae
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54728 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-01-12
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> -Maior Quiritibus spd;
> apart from Roma Antiqua, we have the problem that Nova
> Roma is a U.S. registered non-profit charity with a trademarked
> logo 'Nova Roma' the flag and name.
>
> In businesses, you need authorization usually by the board
> of directors or the corporation's in-house lawyer who sends the
> request to the CEO (chief operating officer) to use a business'
> trademark.
> Nova Roma's Senate is the legal Board of Directors of Nova
> Roma, the non-profit org. So it is entirely appropriate as a
> business measure to have Senate authorization.
>
> I wrote to Albucius and I still don't understand the fuss. It would
> grind business to a halt in Nova Roma, plus I hate to think of
> personal interests if every single year a business with the NR logo
> was hostage to 2 curule aediles' permission.
>
> That this happened to Caius Curius Saturninus, a truly devoted civis
> who had done so much and gives so much to NR; that his good name was
> impugned, illustrates what a poor idea this edictum was.
>
> optime vale
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
Salve I think the curule aediles think that selling in the NR market
and "officially sponsored products" is the same thing. thats what the
fuss is about.some people are thinking that official NR products and
sponsored NR products are not the same thing.I see where you could
have a product that you sell in NR ( that would be sponsored {say oat
ckes}) and the curule aediles sets the rules for that. AND ALSO you
could have "official" products like the NR coins that the Senate signs
off on.on a lot of people have told the curule aedile this and I do
not think the curule aedile gets what a trademark is and why the
Senate should be the one to say what is official NR stuff is.
vale
Marcus Cornelius Felix




>
>
> -- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Vedius" <vedius@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
> > <mlcinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato omnes in Foro SPD
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > > I cannot find anything in our laws that would grant the Curule
> > > Aediles the power to do what they have claimed by this edict. The
> > > lex Constitutiva itself does not seem to afford them this broad
> an
> > > application of their imperium, and no other legal instrument may
> > > supersede the lex Constitutiva.
> >
> > I must disagree in this instance. The lex Constitutiva (an
> > interesting construction of terminology, that!) does indeed
> provide
> > the Curule Aediles authority to issue edicta in the furtherance of
> > their assigned duties. Those duties include, specifically:
> >
> > "To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
> > commerce within Nova Roma property."
> >
> > From my reading of the issue, what the Aedile has done falls under
> > that category perfectly, assuming that the website is included in
> the
> > definition of "venues ... within Nova Roma property."
> >
> > The Aedile has the right to issue an edictum to regulate trade. It
> is
> > only the substance of that edictum which is in question, as you
> point
> > out below:
> >
> > > Only the Senate claims the prerogative to allow the use of our
> > > trademarked logo, so it logically follows that only the Senate
> may
> > > claim the right to "officially sponsor" a product, such an
> > > endorsement being an extension of the right to use the
> logo/brand of
> > > the Corporation. It also follows logically that the Senate could
> > > *extend that right* to the Curule Aediles if it chose to do so,
> but
> > > as of this date they have *not* done so.
> >
> > I confess I must once again disagree. The Senate has not claimed
> the
> > right, to my knowledge, to "officially sponsor" a product. What it
> > has done is to regulate use of Nova Roma's trademarked insignia.
> That
> > is not the same thing at all.
> >
> > I do not agree that it "naturally follows" that protection of a
> logo
> > necessarily implies protection of "official sponsorship". The two
> are
> > entirely different animals; one is a particular image protected by
> > macronational law, the other is the implied imprimatur of the res
> > publica. Very different, indeed.
> >
> > If the Senate had intended to keep as its prerogative the use of
> the
> > phrase "officially sponsored", then it would seem to me it would
> have
> > included such language in a Senatus Consultum. To assume its
> > existence in the face of its stark and utter absence seems to me
> to
> > be quite a stretch. As I indicate, to my knowledge no such S.C.
> has
> > ever been voted on, let alone passed. (If such a Senatus Consultum
> > exists, then I humbly apologize in advance and withdraw this
> > particular argument.)
> >
> > If the Senate should, in the future, see fit to correct this
> > oversight then it would absolutely override the edictum of the
> > Aedile. However, until such time as that happens, the
> responsibility
> > for overriding, cancelling, or altering the Aedile's edictum would
> > rest with the Praetores or Consules, whose own edicta outweigh
> those
> > of the Aediles.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> > Pater Patriae
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Rudimenta Latina class to begin
A. Tullia Scholastica omnibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

A reminder: The second run of Avitus¹ Rudimenta Latina class at the
Academia Thules will begin on Monday, January 14th, 2008. No registrations
will be accepted after that date. This is a book course with minimal
instruction requiring only that the student purchase and read the textbook,
then take an examination on it about two months later. Avitus also requires
at least one posting to the class forum for each division of the course.

I recommend this course for those who wish to learn about Latin either
for their own edification or as preparation to taking one of our language
courses. This is not a Latin course per se, but one ABOUT Latin, which
should prove helpful to those who wish to learn more about the language of
the Romans, whether or not they plan on taking an actual Latin course.

Those interested should visit the Academia Thules website; if you
already have an AT ID, you may register by scrolling down to the appropriate
course on the Facultas Litterarum section; those who do not have such an ID
must obtain one from Saturninus.

Valete.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54730 From: Vedius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> -Maior Quiritibus spd;
> apart from Roma Antiqua, we have the problem that Nova
> Roma is a U.S. registered non-profit charity with a trademarked
> logo 'Nova Roma' the flag and name.
>
> In businesses, you need authorization usually by the board
> of directors or the corporation's in-house lawyer who sends the
> request to the CEO (chief operating officer) to use a business'
> trademark.
> Nova Roma's Senate is the legal Board of Directors of Nova
> Roma, the non-profit org. So it is entirely appropriate as a
> business measure to have Senate authorization.

"Usually" is not, as I am sure you realize, "always". It is most
certainly not a legal requirement, especially in Nova Roma, which has
explicitly made a requirement for Board approval in the instance of
using a trademarked symbol, and not in the instance of official
sponsorship.

All I am saying is that the Senate needs to pass such a Consultum if
that's what they want to control. I'll vote in favor of it. But in
the absence of such a vote, our good Aedile is perfectly within his
rights to issue a decretum.

> I wrote to Albucius and I still don't understand the fuss. It would
> grind business to a halt in Nova Roma, plus I hate to think of
> personal interests if every single year a business with the NR logo
> was hostage to 2 curule aediles' permission.

The use of the NR logo is the purview of the Senate, by a properly
passed Senatus Consultim to that effect. Neither that SC nor anything
else to my knowledge said anything about "official" items. Let the
Senate pass another Consultum. But they haven't, and until they do,
magistrates are free to issue decreta on the subject.

How does it "grind business to a halt in Nova Roma" just to pass
things past the Aediles to be able to say "official Nova Roma" stuff?
Surely one is able to sell things in the Macellum that
aren't "official". Trade goes on. The Republic is saved.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Pater Patriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54731 From: C. Curius Saturninus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Cicero's court cases
Salvete omnes,

I remember that I have read somewhere that Cicero won almost 90% of
his court cases, but I cannot remember from where I got this
originally. Might someone know the source for this? Alternatively a
list of Cicero's court cases would also do.

Valete,

C. Curius Saturninus
(Mikko Sillanpää)

Senator - Propraetor Provinciae Thules
Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova

e-mail: c.curius@...
www.academiathules.org
thule.novaroma.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54732 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Cicero's court cases
G.Petronius Dexter C. Curio Saturnino SPD,

> Alternatively a
> list of Cicero's court cases would also do.

Voici la liste des discours de Cicéron qui sont parvenus jusqu'à
nous :

Pro Quinctio
Pro Roscio Amerino
Pro Roscio Comodeo
de Lege Agraria
In Verrem
de Imperio Cn. Pompei
Pro Caecina
Pro Cluentio
Pro Rabirio Perduellionis Reo
In Catilinam I-IV
Pro Murena
Pro Sulla
Pro Flacco
Pro Archia
Post Reditum in Senatu
Post Reditum in Quirites
de Domo Sua
de Haruspicum Responsis
Pro Cn. Plancio
Pro Sestio
In Vatinium
Pro Caelio
de Provinciis Consularibus
Pro Balbo
Pro Milone
In Pisonem
Pro Scauro
Pro Fonteio
Pro Rabirio Postumo
Pro Marcello
Pro Ligario
Pro Deiotaro
Philippics

Vale.

G. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54733 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Intercessio on aedilician edict.
Ex officio consul Iulius Sabinus.

SALVETE!

The curule aedile Memmius Albucius issued an edict about Macellum
rules.

I understand very well his intention to set the necessaries rules to
do his job, as aedile, in the best possible way.
I understand that these rules are applied in his area of
responsibility.

In the same time I consider that this part of his edict Article 3:

"The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
Roma by its aediles curules."

exceeds imperium.

Because that I hereby pronnounce intercessio against the edict
issued by curule aedile P. Memmius Albucius.

Given under my hand this 13th day of January 2761 a.U.c (AD 2008) in
the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54734 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: EIDAE IANUARIAE: Feriae Iovi
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Dum tempus habemus operemur bonum.

Hodie est Eidus Iamuariae; haec dies nefastus piaculum est: feriae
Iovi.

"The worship of Juno demands the ausonian calends; on the Ides, a
white ewe, of good size, falls in honor of Jupiter." ~ Ovidius Naso,
Fasti 1.55-56

"They name the Eidus as they do either because of the beauty and form
(eidos) of the full-orbed moon, or by derivation from a title of
Jupiter." ~ Plutarch, Ques. Rom. 24

The calendar of Romulus consisted of ten lunar months, each month
beginning with the first sliver of the New Moon seen just after
sunset. On the calends a pontifex would announce from the Curia
Calabra of the Capitolium on what day the Nones would occur, either
on the fifth or seventh of each month. The people left their fields
and came to see the Rex Sacrorum announce from the Arx when the other
holidays of the month would arrive. The Nones are on the day of the
First Quarter Moon, and eight days later, on the Ides, appears the
Full Moon. Its name was said to have come from either
Etruscan "Itus" or Sabine "Idus," who was identified with Jupiter
Fiducia (Varro, Lingua Latinae 6.28; Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.15.14).
On the Ides of each month the flamen Dialis led a white ewe, called
an "idulis," in procession along the Via Sacra to the Capitolium
where she was sacrificed to Jupiter. Normally it might seem unusual
that a female victim, in this case an ewe, should be sacrificed to
Jupiter. However we may come to better understand the sacrifice in
the context of a confarreatio marriage ceremony. The appearance of
the light of the Full Moon on mountaintops was thought among the
Italic tribes to represent the hierogamos of the Sky Father, and
Mother Earth. These were "the First Gods" (principes dei),
the "Potent Deities" of the Augural Books(divi potes), Caelum and
Terra. They were identified alternatively as Saturn and Ops; in
Umbria as Fisius and Fisia or else as Cerfu and Cerfia:, among the
Marrucini as Iove and Iovia, where in Rome Sabine Dioue Patir and
Kerria Diouia became better known as Jupiter and Juno. (Varro, L. L.
5.57-66; Tavole Iguvium; Tabula Rapenensis). The special marriage
ceremony called a confarreatio arrived at its climax when the bride
and groom sat on two chairs covered by the hide of a single
sacrificial ewe and shared bread and wine with one another. One of
the requirements for being the flamen Dialis who performed the
sacrifices of the Ides was that he be married by a rite of
confarreatio, and it may well be because each month he and the
flaminica Dialis reenacted the hierogamos of Jupiter and Juno as a
confarreatio at the Capitolium.


"Lady of Night, bi-horned, lover of nightlong revels, shine, O Moon,
shine, darting through the latticed windows; shed thy splendour on
golden Callistion; thine immortality may look down unbidden on the
deeds of lovers; thou dost bless both her and me, I know, O Moon; for
thy soul too was fired by Endymion." ~ Philodemus, Moonlight, Greek
Anthology XL


Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 11.18:

"If any have offended against thee, consider first: What is my
relation to men, and that we are made for one another; and in another
respect, I was made to be set over them, as a ram over the flock or a
bull over the herd. But examine the matter from first principles,
from this: If all things are not mere atoms, it is nature which
orders all things: if this is so, the inferior things exist for the
sake of the superior, and these for the sake of one another."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54735 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Your Intercessio on aedilician edict.
Aed. Memmius Consuli Iulio omn.que s.d.

I take good notice of your intercessio, and, though I do not share
your analysis, am bowing towards your higher imperium.

I will not discuss on the criticizable form of your veto. It is your
first one.

You know that I regret this position which does not help, imho, our
rules progressing and asks our Senate to fulfill ordinary commercial
obligations.

I also regret that you have made no proposals allowing me to better
up this text, beyond its article 3, that you are quoting alone.


For your information, I will not ask our tribunes to support my edict
by vetoing your intercessio, for the following three reasons.

I want first honor your courageous act, which reminds us all that
magistrates have their own responsibilities, that they have to fully
exercise.

Second, I do not wish to delay our public affairs with a veto request
which would necessarily postpone the next senate session, which is to
be important in other fields.

Third, as I cannot rule anymore as aedile the granting of the
official label to a seller, I will let our Senate take its
responsibility, and will then take the opportunity reminding my view
in the Curia.

I would, last, thank every one who has given me her/his support
during this week. As I told you, I think that I have made my duty
supporting a system which would have allowed Nova Roma to treat every
seller fairly and in full equity, through *legal*, and not
*political* proceedings.


Vale Consul et omnes,



P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
<iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> Ex officio consul Iulius Sabinus.
>
> SALVETE!
>
> The curule aedile Memmius Albucius issued an edict about Macellum
> rules.
>
> I understand very well his intention to set the necessaries rules
to
> do his job, as aedile, in the best possible way.
> I understand that these rules are applied in his area of
> responsibility.
>
> In the same time I consider that this part of his edict Article 3:
>
> "The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for Nova
> Roma by its aediles curules."
>
> exceeds imperium.
>
> Because that I hereby pronnounce intercessio against the edict
> issued by curule aedile P. Memmius Albucius.
>
> Given under my hand this 13th day of January 2761 a.U.c (AD 2008)
in
> the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54736 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: You need to reconsider
M. Moravius Piscinus Con. P Memmio Albucio Aed. Cur. SPD:

It is neither personal consideration nor a political decision that
has both Consules agreeing that your eidictum has exceeded the
authority of the Aediles Curules. I have granted you and your
colleague the opportunity to state your case before the Senate before
our January session begins. I asked that you withdraw your edictum
until such time as a decision could be reached. But as you did not,
then we Consules had to veto the edictum aedilis as currently
written. That decision, too, is not personally directed in favor of
anyone or against anyone, and it is not a decision made for political
reasons. It is a decision made in regard to a constitutional issue,
an issue that needs to be addressed and agreed upon by the
magistrates and Senate before such a provision as you earlier
included can be added to a edictum aedilis.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Aed. cur. Memmius Consuli Moravio s.d.
>
> Yes, consul, my edict is again precedence, just because previous
aediles and one consul, two years ago have wished bringing our Senate
to take un unseful competency, which in no way increase its
auctoritas, and will give our citizens the impression that in some
circumstances, a citizen has more opportunities to obtain benefits if
he belongs to the Senate, and have his interests protected by his/her
friends in the Curia.
>
> As you have well noted, I have still affirmed, contrary to what you
may think, dear Moravius, that the Senate, as guardian of the
sovereignty of Nova Roma, was fully in its place controlling NR name
itself and the logo. Again, I will underline that we are here in a
commercial field, which is just about giving a benefit to a seller.
>
> I am very glad that our Censor Galerius, who was not in the best
relations with Curius, has been touched by what a previous praetor
would probably call "grace", and is now supporting Curius's
interests. My intervention would have, at least, provoked a positive
event.
>
> I have however read nothing that may modify my analysis. I have
answered every argument that the selling senator, with his friends
and supports, have brought forward.
>
> In supporting the "senatorial competency thesis", I frankly believe
that your consulate is loosing a good opportunity to bring things
back to a normal and historically conform situation.
>
> I fully understand that your now known position, that I had asked
you a few days ago, is largely based on political considerations,
what I respect because this is an expectable way to act for consuls.
>
> As however I have read, in my humble opinion, no legal founded
argument, I will not withdraw my edict, preferring being in full
agreement with my conscience, my legal analysis and what I do think
better for the safe of our res publica.
>
>
> I have taken good notice of your intent vetoing it. I share on this
point our Pater Patriae Vedius' opinion : our institutions are to
work, and consuls have the full right to veto a lower magistrate's
act, and not necessary seek the Senate support before acting.
>
>
> I would not be true to my whole previous considerations if I did
not support the idea that the more our laws are applied, the best it
is.
>
> So, veto, Consul, before the delay is over, and do not hesitate,
taking your responsibility for the consulate. Courage is a so not
often word, in our res publica, and your intercessio will give it
some renewal. And even if you have forgotten the "vale", at the end
of your letter, you will keep my respect, Consul. ;-)
>
>
>
> Vale Consul,
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcus Horatius
> To: P. Memmius Albucius ; iulius sabinus
> Cc: c.curius@... ; tvogel@...
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: You need to reconsider
>
>
> M Moravius Piscinus Consul P. Memmio Albucio Aedili Curule SPD:
>
> I ask that you immediately withdraw your edictum. I agree with
my collaegue that your edictum is contrary to precedence and Nova
Roma law that places in the Senate alone the authority of granting
use of Nova Roma's logo and name. The Aediles can be said to have
authority to monitor merchants in the Macellum with regard to this
issue of use of the name and logo, and I have supported you so far in
that authority. But your edictum is in error in claiming a power for
the Aediles Curules to authorize the use of Nova Roma's name or
logo.
>
> As the edictum is currently written, I regret that the Consules
shall have to impose their intercessio. Instead I will give you the
opportunity to withdraw the edictum so that it may be rewritten to an
acceptable form.
>
> I have been asked by Censor Ti. Galerius to include in the
Januray Agenda an Item granting Senator Saturninus permission to use
the Nova Roma name and logo, and thereby be allowed to advertise his
calendar as the "official Nova Roma calendar" for a period of five
years, 2007-2012. I am taking that suggestion into consideration,
but it will not resolve this issue.
>
> Either the Senate or the Aediles have the power to grant
authority to use the Nova Roma name and logo. Both Consules and the
Senate, by its past actions, agree that it is the Senate alone that
has such authority. I therefore ask again that you defer to the
Consules' opinion and withdraw your edictum Aedilis.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54737 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Your Intercessio on aedilician edict.
M. Moravius Piscinus Con. P. Memmio Albucio Aed. Cur. SPD:

I support my colleague's intercessio. There is only one issue we
have with your edictum. This is where you state that the Aediles
Curules have a power to grant merchants the use of the Nova Roma name
and logo that are trade marked by Nova Roma, Inc. As I have stated
to you in private, and as I have supported you in our discussions
with the Tribuni Plebis, Senate and magistrates, the Aediles Curules
have authority and a responsibility to police those merchants in the
Macellum who use the name and logo. In the particular incident
involving Senator Saturninus' calendar, I agreed that the Aediles had
a right to prevent him from marketing it as the "official Nova Roma
calendar" since he had not been given permission by the Senate for
this year's calendar, even though he had in previous years. There is
a distinct difference from a policing authority and the power to
grant usufruct authorization.

You may reissue your edictum aedilis without the particular provision
under dispute. The Senate could grant the Aediles such authority as
is sought, and you could later issue another edictum under such
authority.

This is a matter of the corporate prorogatives of the Senate as the
Board of Directors of Nova Roma, Inc. Such corporate prorogatives
may not be interferred upon by magistrates who are not corporate
officers. And Aediles Curules are not stipulated as corporate
officers in any way in the Constitution.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Aed. Memmius Consuli Iulio omn.que s.d.
>
> I take good notice of your intercessio, and, though I do not share
> your analysis, am bowing towards your higher imperium.
>
> I will not discuss on the criticizable form of your veto. It is
your
> first one.
>
> You know that I regret this position which does not help, imho, our
> rules progressing and asks our Senate to fulfill ordinary
commercial
> obligations.
>
> I also regret that you have made no proposals allowing me to better
> up this text, beyond its article 3, that you are quoting alone.
>
>
> For your information, I will not ask our tribunes to support my
edict
> by vetoing your intercessio, for the following three reasons.
>
> I want first honor your courageous act, which reminds us all that
> magistrates have their own responsibilities, that they have to
fully
> exercise.
>
> Second, I do not wish to delay our public affairs with a veto
request
> which would necessarily postpone the next senate session, which is
to
> be important in other fields.
>
> Third, as I cannot rule anymore as aedile the granting of the
> official label to a seller, I will let our Senate take its
> responsibility, and will then take the opportunity reminding my
view
> in the Curia.
>
> I would, last, thank every one who has given me her/his support
> during this week. As I told you, I think that I have made my duty
> supporting a system which would have allowed Nova Roma to treat
every
> seller fairly and in full equity, through *legal*, and not
> *political* proceedings.
>
>
> Vale Consul et omnes,
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> aed. cur.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Iulius Sabinus"
> <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >
> > Ex officio consul Iulius Sabinus.
> >
> > SALVETE!
> >
> > The curule aedile Memmius Albucius issued an edict about Macellum
> > rules.
> >
> > I understand very well his intention to set the necessaries rules
> to
> > do his job, as aedile, in the best possible way.
> > I understand that these rules are applied in his area of
> > responsibility.
> >
> > In the same time I consider that this part of his edict Article 3:
> >
> > "The "officially sponsored by Nova Roma" label is granted for
Nova
> > Roma by its aediles curules."
> >
> > exceeds imperium.
> >
> > Because that I hereby pronnounce intercessio against the edict
> > issued by curule aedile P. Memmius Albucius.
> >
> > Given under my hand this 13th day of January 2761 a.U.c (AD 2008)
> in
> > the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54738 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Salvete Aventina et Hortensia

Reading through some of the references (in addition to those I
posted) I was amused in how Roman views corresponded with the distant
Maya. The Maya, whose diet depended on beans more than did the
Romans, thought that flatulance was caused by evil spirits arising
from the Underworld they called Xibalba.

Recall beans in a different light, with Carna on the Kalendae
Fabariae of June, in Ovid, Fasti 6.169-182, and again with Macrobius,
Saturnalia 1.12.32-33. Macrobius states that Carna is a minor
goddess who protects the vital organs of a person, and that she is
celebrated with a soup of beans and bacon. Then in Ovid, too:

You ask why we eat greasy bacon-fat on the Kalends,
And why we mix beans with parched grain?
She's an ancient goddess, nourished by familiar food,
No epicure to seek out alien dainties...
The earth only yielded beans and hard grains.
They say that whoever eats these two foods together
At the Kalends, in this sixth month, will have sweet digestion.


It is not only the Greeks and Romans who thought a connection was
found between beans and earthiness. In other traditions as well,
special diet is advised to "lighten" the body in preparation for
religious ritual or for meditation. Another example in Roman
tradition is the agnus castus (an infusion of rosemary and honey)
drank by women in preparation for the sacrum anniversarium Cereris.
We could say that there is a general perception through various
religious traditions that recommends an avoidance of red meat, beans,
nuts and other heavy foods as leavened bread and root vegetable in
preparation for ritual, while fasting, fruit, and herbal infusions
are offered instead in order to "lighten the body" or maybe "lighten"
the hold of the body on the mind and soul.

Valete et vadete in pace Deorum
Piscinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Piscino Aventiae spd;
> speaking as the local Pythagorean, this is my area of interest.
> Cicero made the same claim that beans disturbed tranquilliatas.
> Modern scholars point out beans & other food taboos among
> Pythagoreans were the same as those in Greek ritual magic and dream
> oracles..this is from Peter Kingsley. I have to run out now, but
> I'll be back later with references.
> M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > Salve Marcus Horatius,
> >
> > >Hence it is that the bean has been condemned by Pythagoras;
> though,
> > >according
> > > to some, the reason for this denunciation was the belief which
he
> > > entertained that the souls of the dead are enclosed in the
bean:
> it
> > > is for this reason, too, that beans are used in the funereal
> banquets
> > > of the Parentalia. According to Varro, it is for a similar
cause
> that
> > > the Flamen abstains from eating beans:
> >
> > Everyone is going to think that I am joking, but I seriously
think
> that
> > beans were condemned by Pythagoras because beans give people gas.
> Let's face
> > it, beans of any kind do strange things to the stomaches of many
> people
> > including noisy gas or silent but smelly gas and the dreaded
noisy
> and
> > smelly gas combined. And if the gas is bad enough it will cause
> sleepless
> > nights attended with dreams.
> >
> > As for beans containing souls of the dead, well how many times
> have you been
> > near someone who passed wind and exclaimed or thought "Jeeez! It
> smells as
> > if someone died in here!".
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana Octavia
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54739 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3780
A. Apollonius C. Petronio sal.

> It was an old supestition but we have some examples in the ancient
> calendar of years with the nundinal letter A. For example 52 BC.

... in which the city was riven by rioting, a former magistrate was murdered, the senate-house was burned down, and the emergency was considered so dire that it provoked the unprecedented step of creating a consul without colleague.

There was also 78 BC, in which a former praetor was in open rebellion in Spain, and a consul took up arms against the republic.

> But it is not sure. We know only one example of a year A changed, the
> year 40 BC. The first year A of the new Julian calendar was 43 BC.

... in which there was civil war, both consules were killed in battle, Rome was taken by a Roman army under arms, and hundreds or even thousands were proscribed and murdered. The year is also taken by some to be the formal termination of the republican constitution.

I'm not saying whether the "superstition" is right or wrong, I'm just saying that it has a certain logic to it.




__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54740 From: liviacases Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Salvete omnes,

I would really like to know what has been translated as "beans" in the
various examples quoted.
Romans didn't have beans as we know them: they had various legumes
like fava beans, chickpeas, those small white beans with an "eye" in
the centre, and probably what are known today in Italy as "cicerchie",
a relative of chickpeas.
For me there's a huge confusion as to what the various quotes refer
to: is it just one particular type of "beans" or all legumes?

> Recall beans in a different light, with Carna on the Kalendae
> Fabariae of June, in Ovid, Fasti 6.169-182, and again with Macrobius,
> Saturnalia 1.12.32-33. Macrobius states that Carna is a minor
> goddess who protects the vital organs of a person, and that she is
> celebrated with a soup of beans and bacon. Then in Ovid, too:
>
> You ask why we eat greasy bacon-fat on the Kalends,
> And why we mix beans with parched grain?
> She's an ancient goddess, nourished by familiar food,
> No epicure to seek out alien dainties...
> The earth only yielded beans and hard grains.
> They say that whoever eats these two foods together
> At the Kalends, in this sixth month, will have sweet digestion.
>
Ah, this confirms my impression that soups with whole grains and
legumes, like "farro e ceci" (emmer and chickpeas) in Tuscany reflect
a very ancient custom.
I'm surely going to have one of these on the kalendae fabariae, but at
other times too. Slurp!

The connections between beans and the dead seems to have survived in
Italy. In many places it has been customary until recently to offer
plates of fava beans or other legumes to the dead by leaving them on
outer window ledges on the first of November.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54741 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Maior Plautae Piscino quiritibusque spd;
I have my dual Greek-English Diogenes Laertius here Livia, and
looking at the passage (with my iffy Greek) he uses the term:
êõáìùí My modern Greek dictionary has 'kouki' for broad beans.

I think it is all legumes, as they are full of protein and
nourishing, especially the ancient varieties.

Piscine this makes sense if you are undergoing incubation or any
kind of shamanic experience you need to be rather half-starved;-)

I was in this situation 2 years ago when I was training in a 1,000
year old sect of Buddhism with magical practices. You were deprived
of sleep, fed a vegan diet with nil protein and no sugar(okay I had
a secret stash of nuts & dates), tired out from physical activity
and of course you have intense dreams ( I did) and even
hallucinations brought on by this. The abbot admitted it is no
different than when American Indians go out into the wilderness for
their visions.

I made a nice pot of minestre the other day fagioli and scarole with
the little white cannelini, but is emmer the ancient farro? I must
try it, as old varieties of grain are far more nutritious.

Here is the reference Peter Kingsley, "Ancient Philosophy Mystery,
and Magic"
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy P. 284-7. He
mentions Cicero De. Div. 1.20. 39. He also makes the point that this
taboo is found in the Egyptian magical papyri and probably
originated from there.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior


For me there's a huge confusion as to what the various quotes refer
> to: is it just one particular type of "beans" or all legumes?
>
Slurp!
>
> The connections between beans and the dead seems to have survived
in
> Italy. In many places it has been customary until recently to offer
> plates of fava beans or other legumes to the dead by leaving them
on
> outer window ledges on the first of November.
>
> Valete,
> L. Livia Plauta
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54742 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-13
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Salvete:
Google Scholar is very interesting this way, here is a tinyurl link
to a Greek medical article on 'Favism and Pythagorean food
prohibitions' It is the Fava bean.
http://tinyurl.com/yv6nx6
I've read this argument before and now I've forgotten who refuted it,
successfully to my mind. Bother, must look at the library. Apologies.
Maior


> Maior Plautae Piscino quiritibusque spd;
> I have my dual Greek-English Diogenes Laertius here Livia, and
> looking at the passage (with my iffy Greek) he uses the term:
> êõáìùí
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54743 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus T. Flavio Aquila sal.

The curule aediles do not have jurisdiction over all the ludi in Nova Roma.
The plebeian aediles have jurisdiction over the ludi Cerealia and the ludi
Plebii. You need to be more precise when you make such posts ex officio as it
shows your continuing problems in understanding where one magistrate's
prerogatives end and another's begins.

Vale.



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54744 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: SIX DAYS TO ROMAN CONVENTUS IN B'HAM, AL ON 01/19 & 01/20
COMMITTING TO THE CONVENTUS

I would like those who are DEFINITELY attending the Conventus to
contact me by THURSDAY, JAN. 17. This will provide me with
a number to determine how many seats we will need for dinner on
Saturday and breakfast on Sunday. If there are going to be more
than 10 people attending, this will help us determine the price of
discounts at the museums.

If you have any other questions or concerns, contact me at
brotherpaganus@... or join the Austrorientalis@yahoogroups.com
list for further details. Any suggestions that could help with this
event would be welcome.

Southeastern Roman Conventus to be held in Birmingham, AL on Sat.,
Jan. 19 and Sunday, Jan. 20, 2008. This event is being organized by
members of Nova Roma for anyone who would be interested in attending-
-military, civilian, cultures deorum, friends, family et cetera. It
is a wonderful opportunity for networking and getting to know
other "Romans" from different groups.

The Birmingham Museum of Art is hosting the exhibit "Pompeii: Tales
from an Eruption" until January 27. This exhibit features 500 items
from Pompeii, Oplontis, and Herculaneum. The price for this exhibit
is $16.00 USD but if we can get a group of more than ten people, the
price drops to $14 USD per person.

http://www.artsbma.org/

Birmingham, AL is also the home of the magnificent statue of Vulcan
that was first featured at the 1904 World's Fair. This statue
underwent extensive restoration in 1999 to restore it to its
original appearance. The conventus would include a trip to Vulcan
Park to visit the statue and its museum as well as use the overlook.
One aspect of the conventus to be discussed is whether to
visit the park late in the afternoon so as to watch the sunset over
B'ham from the overlook. There is a $1.00 USD discount for groups of
over 10 persons.

http://www.visitvulcan.com/

Accommodations will be at The Motel 6 #2004 [I-65 at Oxmoor Road,
Exit #256/#256-A; 151 Vulcan Road; Birmingham, AL 35209; (205)942-
9414] is 5.4 miles southwest of downtown Birmingham. A room for 4
persons is priced at $46.79+tax per night with reservation or $11.70
per person. The same rate applies for both smoking and non-smoking
rooms. Two rooms will be reserved by the organizer on Monday, Dec.
17; in a section of the hotel where other rooms will be available to
insure close proximity for room visits on Saturday night after
dinner.

http://www.motel6.com/reservations/motel_detail.aspx?num=2004

Dinner on Saturday night, Jan. 19, will be at Lavoy's Italian
Restaurant at 6 PM. This eatery is located less than one mile from
the Motel 6 and is easy to find. They were rated the best Italian
restaurant in Birmingham in 2002 and is one of the top five Italian
restaurants in the city. Their menu is varied, prices are
reasonable, and they have a small but decent wine list. I have
contacted the manager to discuss our dinner there.

http://www.birminghammenus.com/lovoys/

Breakfast on Sunday morning will be at the International House of
Pancakes (off exit 255) about 2 miles south of Motel 6. The address
is 221 State Farm Pkwy, Homewood, AL. The telephone number is (205)
290-0995.

Everyone needs to arrive between 9:00-9:30 a.m. so that we can all
be seated together. If anyone wants to discuss any business or make
announcements about upcoming events, this would be a good time to do
it.

Checkout at the Motel 6 is at 12:00 p.m. which would allow plenty of
time for socializing at breakfast before returning to the motel and
checking out.


Patrick D. Owen, Nashville TN
aka Fl. Galerius Aurelianus,
Gubenator Am. Austrorientalis (NR)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54745 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: AW: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Titus Flavius Aquila Fl.Galeri Aureliano

The statement was taken from the Main Page of Nova Roma.

Duties
The domain of authority of the curule aediles includes:
Macellum
Magna Mater Project
Games (Nova Roma)
Everybody knows the setup of responsibilities concerning the ludi.

My statement was a private statement and not marked as ex officio.

Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: "PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@..." <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Montag, den 14. Januar 2008, 07:23:25 Uhr
Betreff: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus T. Flavio Aquila sal.

The curule aediles do not have jurisdiction over all the ludi in Nova Roma.
The plebeian aediles have jurisdiction over the ludi Cerealia and the ludi
Plebii. You need to be more precise when you make such posts ex officio as it
shows your continuing problems in understanding where one magistrate's
prerogatives end and another's begins.

Vale.

************ **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body. aol.com/fitness/ winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54746 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: a. d. XVII Kalendas Februarias: dies natalis M. Antoni
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus simus

Hodie est ante diem XVII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies endotercisus
vitiosus ex senatus consulto aterque est

Endotercisus indicates that in the morning and in the evening today
is regarded as a dies nefastus. But from the time that the morning
sacrifice is made, until the evening when the entrails of the victims
are to be stretched over the altars, today is regarded as dies
fastus. It is also a dies ater, when it is improper to offer
sacrifices to the celestial Gods. This could be a day on which one
might sacrifice to Di Manes by night, which may be one explanation
for today having been designated as endotercisus. However we do not
know why this dies ater would have been so designated and not others.

In four examples of fasti (Maffeiani, Caeretani, Oppiani minores, and
Verulain) today is also designated as vitious by an act of the
Senate. This was done because today is the birthday of Marcus
Antonius. Such a designation would appear suddenly in the calendars
and then disappear after a few years. It was used to mark onerous
days, as when there had been a "rain of blood" at Praeneste. Such a
date remained vitiosus until an expiation might remove its
significance. They did not carry the same weight as do dies ater,
pertaining as they did to only a single location usually. With 14
Jan. there was a little confusion, as it did fall on a dies ater as
well, and the Senate's decision to name it dies vitiosus because of
the birth of Mark Antony meant that it was observed throughout Italy
and not just at any one location. It was, however, only a temporary
designation, and thus it is noted today only for informational
purposes and not as any restriction on the culti Deorum.

Marc Antonius married Octavia, sister of Augustus, and by her had two
daughters. Antonia prima was the grandmother of Nero. Antonia
Secunda was the grandmother of Caligula. Antonia Secunda was also
sister-in-law to Tiberius, having married his brother Drusus, and by
him she bore Messalina, thus becoming mother-in-law to Claudius.

"Of an illicit connection between a daughter of Faunus and Hercules,
(who, having killed Geryon about that time, was driving his herds,
the prize of his victory, through Italy), was born Latinus, in whose
reign Aeneas came from Ilium into Italy, after the destruction of
Troy by the Greeks, and being immediately received with hostile
demonstrations, led out his troops into the field, but being first
invited to a conference, raised such admiration of himself in
Latinus, that he was both admitted to a share of his throne, and
became his son-in-law by a marriage with his daughter Lavinia. After
this event, they had to carry on war in concert against Turnus, king
of the Rutulians, because he had been disappointed of marrying
Lavinia; and in the war both Turnus and Latinus were killed, Aeneas,
in consequence, becoming by right of victory master of both nations,
built a city which he called Lavinium, from the name of his wife.
Some time afterwards, he went to war with Mezentius, king of the
Etrurians, and being killed in it, Ascanius his son succeeded him,
who, removing from Lavinium, built Alba Longa, which for three
hundred years was the metropolis of his kingdom." ~ M. Iunianus
Iustinus, Historia 43.1


Our thought for today comes Julian the Blessed in a Letter to
Arcasis::

"The first thing we ought to preach is reverence toward the Gods. For
it is fitting that we should perform our service to the Gods as
though They were Tthemselves present with us and beheld us, and
though not seen by us could direct Their gaze, which is more powerful
than any light, even as far as our hidden thoughts."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54747 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Beans in the religio Romana
Salva sis, Lucia Livia

The section of Pliny from which I took a quote is about all legumous
plants. Gellius, however, specifically mentioned "faba" or fava
beans. Ovid, for the Lemuria in "Fasti" tells of offering fava beans
to the Manes.

Vale optime
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "liviacases" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I would really like to know what has been translated as "beans" in
the
> various examples quoted.
> Romans didn't have beans as we know them: they had various legumes
> like fava beans, chickpeas, those small white beans with an "eye" in
> the centre, and probably what are known today in Italy
as "cicerchie",
> a relative of chickpeas.
> For me there's a huge confusion as to what the various quotes refer
> to: is it just one particular type of "beans" or all legumes?
>
> > Recall beans in a different light, with Carna on the Kalendae
> > Fabariae of June, in Ovid, Fasti 6.169-182, and again with
Macrobius,
> > Saturnalia 1.12.32-33. Macrobius states that Carna is a minor
> > goddess who protects the vital organs of a person, and that she
is
> > celebrated with a soup of beans and bacon. Then in Ovid, too:
> >
> > You ask why we eat greasy bacon-fat on the Kalends,
> > And why we mix beans with parched grain?
> > She's an ancient goddess, nourished by familiar food,
> > No epicure to seek out alien dainties...
> > The earth only yielded beans and hard grains.
> > They say that whoever eats these two foods together
> > At the Kalends, in this sixth month, will have sweet digestion.
> >
> Ah, this confirms my impression that soups with whole grains and
> legumes, like "farro e ceci" (emmer and chickpeas) in Tuscany
reflect
> a very ancient custom.
> I'm surely going to have one of these on the kalendae fabariae, but
at
> other times too. Slurp!
>
> The connections between beans and the dead seems to have survived in
> Italy. In many places it has been customary until recently to offer
> plates of fava beans or other legumes to the dead by leaving them on
> outer window ledges on the first of November.
>
> Valete,
> L. Livia Plauta
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54748 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: a. d. XVII Kalendas Februarias: dies natalis M. Antoni
C. Aemilius Crassus M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano Consuli SPD,

I would like to make a small correction to your message. Today is a. d. XIX Kal. Feb. and not a. d. XVII Kal. Feb.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54749 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Sacrificium Concordiae Idibus Ianuariis - Tenth Anniversary of Nova
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, camillus Concordiae, sacerdos Pannoniae, quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis plebis, senatui populoque Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:


Salvete, Quirites!

May Harmony shine upon you brightly! I do apologize for I couldn't post this ritual yesterday: it was done yesterday, but I didn't have internet access.

As I stated when I announced this Sacred Anniversal Tenth Year of the Nova Roman Concordia, I will celebrate and sacrifice in every Kalends and Ides with a ritual to Dea Concordia.

This is the second one this year for the Ides of January:


SACRIFICIVM CONCORDIAE IDIBVS IANVARIIS ANNI SACRI X NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE

INVOCATIO

Dea Concordia,
dea pacis et fortitudinis Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
hisce Idibus Ianuariis anni decimi Novae Romae conditae
te precor, veneror, quaeso, obtestor:

PRECATIO

uti pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;

utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
novis magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis, uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
his turis granis sacrificandis
esto fito volens propitia
hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
novis magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!




#After these words a glass of wine and incense were secrificed on my home altar.#


Valete in Concordia!
May Concordia be with you!





Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Praetoris M. Curiatii Complutensis
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54750 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Festival of Concordia on the 16th January Coming Soon - Opening of t
Cn. Lentulus, camillus Concordiae, Quiritibus sal.:


There will be held a festival of Dea Concordia on the 16th of January, after tomorrow. I do ask every magistrate, priest and citizen to pray to Concordia that day and pray for the Harmony of the Nova Roman People.

I will offer a ritual and I will sacrifice a wine with milk and honey, incense and a cake.

I also announce that the Virtual Temple of Concordia Novae Romae, Concordia Populi Novi Romani will be opened that day with a religious celebration.

I ask you, too, to write down your prayers and send me to this e-mail address and I will place your public prayers into the Virtual Temple.

We must be one heart, one will and one force - if we want to achieve our wonderful dream: to restore Rome.

VALETE CVM CONCORDIA!





Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Praetoris M. Curiatii Complutensis
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54751 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Aurelianus Aquila sal.

If you post a message and you include your title as Tribunus Plebis, you are making it de facto ex officio.  Many of our citizens cannot differentiate between de facto and de iure, just as not every citizen knows the difference between the duties of the curule aediles and the plebeian aediles.  You are an elected magistrate and you have made mistakes dealing with the powers, prerogatives, and limits of your own office.  I have done so in the past, as well.  It is the duty of older, more experienced citizens (& former magistrates) to gently & politely admonish those with less experience.

I don't mean to be a pest about this but almost every new magistrate has to have a little prompting and suggestions.  Some of our past magistrates made major blunders that led to years of hard feelings because no one wanted to say anything early on.

It is your office but you have to remember that when you leave that office at the end of the year, you are subject to censure and penalization under our current set of laws if you violated the limits of that office.  If someone wants to pursue it, you only have two choices--defend yourself or resign your citizenship.  It is a lot easier just to make that little extra effort to insure clarification and correct behavior.

Vale.


-----Original Message-----
From: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 1:17 am
Subject: AW: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products






Titus Flavius Aquila Fl.Galeri Aureliano

The statement was taken from the Main Page of Nova Roma.

Duties
The domain of authority of the curule aediles includes:
Macellum
Magna Mater Project
Games (Nova Roma)
Everybody knows the setup of responsibilities concerning the ludi.

My statement was a private statement and not marked as ex officio.

Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: "PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@..." <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Montag, den 14. Januar 2008, 07:23:25 Uhr
Betreff: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus T. Flavio Aquila sal.

The curule aediles do not have jurisdiction over all the ludi in Nova Roma.
The plebeian aediles have jurisdiction over the ludi Cerealia and the ludi
Plebii. You need to be more precise when you make such posts ex officio as it
shows your continuing problems in understanding where one magistrate's
prerogatives end and another's begins.

Vale.

************ **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body. aol.com/fitness/ winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's:
http://de.yahoo.com/set

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54752 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Salve Fl. Galerius Aurelianus,

When I see new magistrates making blunders I find fault with Nova Roma's
system rather than the newbie magistrate himself.

I think that it would be a good idea for every office to have a manual to go
with it. And each year it should be updated with any relevant laws that
affect that office. There should also be a sort of mentor system during the
transition period where the outgoing magistrates help the newcomers. I had
lots of help from Gnaeus Salix Astur, Marcus Arminius Maior and and Titus
Labienus Fortunatus when I became Tribune. In turn, I helped the new
Tribunes along when they first took office amongst whom were Modianus and
Paulinus, both now Censors with lots of experience.

Of course my pet peeve is when Tribunes veto things that they can't veto
even when there are clear laws and a Tribune's manual :-)

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54753 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-01-14
Subject: Re: Oath of Office - Quaestor L. Salix Cicero
Neil!! I mean Salve Cicero!!

I missed the elections so I didn't realize that you were back in action!
Cool! Congratulations and good luck as Quaestor.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54754 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Re: Aed. cur. EDICT on officially sponsored products
Aurelianus Diana sal.

As we both know, priestess, there are many flaws in the Nova Roma system of
government. I doubt that Rube Goldberg could have designed something as
complicated. However, the newly elected magistrates need to read the
Constitution and leges at least once or twice to get a feel for the system. They
especially need to review and record those leges specific unto their office.

Vale.



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54755 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: a. d. XVI Kalendas Februarias: CARMENTALIA
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos servent cum vester.

Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus
piaculum est: Carmentalia

Today marks the second of what are two separate festivals held for
Carmentis. The first festival on 11 Jan. would seem to relate to an
earlier cultus conducted by the flamen Carmentalis. The second, held
today, originated with a protest by women in 195 BCE to repeal the
lex Oppia.

"Formerly the Ausonian mothers drove in carriages (carpenta). The
honour was later taken from them, so every woman vowed not to renew
their ungrateful husband's line, and to avoid giving birth, unwisely,
she expelled her womb's growing burden, using unpredictable force.
They say the Senate reproved the wives for their coldness, but
restored the right which had been taken from them: and they ordered
two like festivals for the Tegean mother, to promote the birth of
both boys and girls." ~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.619-628

Livy describes the women leaving their houses to lobby voters in the
Forum and protesting before the doors of Tribunes. Consul Cato
described their actions as "a feminine secession" and called their
political activity "sedition." Tribunes came to their defense,
stating, "How haughty are our ears, if we resent the entreaties of
decent women!" They reminded the men assembled how Sabine women had
stopped the war between Romulus and Tatius, and how the matrons had
turned back Coriolanus, how they had provided the gold to ransom the
City from the Gauls, and in another moment of crisis how the matrons
had led the Ideae Magna Mater Deorum into the City of Rome (Livy 34.1-
8). Livy does not mention in this instance what Ovid had, but there
were other instances when women were said to have refused the
advances of their husbands in protest. Tradition held that the
second Carmentalia reflects the day on which women returned their
husband's affections. Plutarch goes on to say, "when children were
born to them, they, as mothers of a fair and numerous progeny,
founded the Temple of Carmentis (Plutarch, Quaes. Rom. 56)." This
would seem to indicate that a temple at or near the sacred grove was
dedicated in 194 BCE. The cultus here was especially led by women
on behalf of children and was revered by women "above all others."


The sacred grove of Carmentis beneath the Capitoline Hill was closely
associated with Numa and the origin of the religio Romana. It was in
Her sacred grove that he met with Egeria while in ecstatic trance.
Through inspiration he learned of rites to perform, which would
appear to have been the original function of Carmentis in Her
relationship with the vates. The relationship between the Latin word
for "song" or "charm" (carmen) and the names of the Goddess as
Carmentis, Carmenta, and Carmena is well understood. However Radke
argued that the root of Her name derived from carn-, Oscan carneis,
meaning "part." According to Thomas Habinek, "Carmentis is not a
personification of song but the abstraction for 'that which procures
or brings allotment'." Carn- is also the root of caro, carnis
(flesh), and "more specifically the portion allotted in a sacrifice.
Indeed, as John Scheid observes, Varro (ling. 6.25) uses the
expression carnem ex sacris petere in the very context (the
distribution of meat at the sacrifice on the Alban Mount)...
Carmentis would thus seem to be a figure associated with sacrifice
(through the etymology of her name and her association with
allotment) and with prophecy (a fact that led to, rather than derived
from, the folk association with carmen. She is, in effect, the
quintessential vates." (See "The World of Roman Song: From Ritualized
Speech to Social Order," Thomas Habinek, John Hopkins University
Press, 2005: ISBN 0-8018-8105-6)

A noted feature of the cultus of Carmentis, and also of other rites
begun by Numa, is the absence of any blood sacrifices.

"It is proscribed by religious law to carry leather into the
sanctuary lest by death the pure fires of the altar would be
violated." ~ Ovid, Fasti 1.639

"In some sacred rites and holy sanctuaries we find the
proscriptions: 'Let nothing made of leather be brought in,' therefore
with this intent that nothing dead and no blood sacrifices would be
admitted." ~ Tentius Varro, Lingua Latinae 7.84

And finally, from the Fasti Praeneste we have an annotation:

"Feriae Carmenti whereby care is given for the children and the
future of all others, for which reason the temple is guarded against
leather as though against death of all children."


Today's thought continues with Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 63

"There is also a limit in simple living, and he who fails to
understand this falls into an error as great as that of the man who
gives way to extravagance."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54756 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Let's worship Concordia! Pray to Concordia and send me your prayers!
*Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus
piaculum est: Carmentalia.*


CN. LENTVLVS CAMILLVS CONCORDIAE QUIRITIBVS SAL.


Magistrates!

Priests!

Citizens!


Please send me your prayers to Dea Concordia! Tomorrow the Nova Roman Virtual Temple of Concordia will be opened. I would like to place your prayers there.

Pray for the Harmony, unity and concord of Nova Roma and the NR people!

Pray for the Tenth Anniversary and the future of our dream!

Pray and send me your prayers!

cn_corn_lent@...


VALETE CVM CONCORDIA!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Praetoris M. Curiatii Complutensis
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54757 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: To all in the Far East, 1/15/2008, 12:00 pm
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   To all in the Far East
 
Date:   Tuesday January 15, 2008
Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
Location:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prov_asia_orientalis/
Notes:   If you live in the Far East, why not join your provincial mailing list? Meet fellow citizens and get active locally. Don't just lurk! Send a message, introduce yourself and get involved! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prov_asia_orientalis/

Provincial mailing lists are listed in the wiki. Go to http://novaroma.org/nr/Provincia_%28Nova_Roma%29
 
Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54758 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: AED. CUR. 2761 team composition (edict)
S. Lucilius Tutor et P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.


Please find below the edictum organizing the curule aedilician team
for 2761 auc.

We pay a special homage to the previous aediles and to the Factiones
heads.

And thanks to all the dedicated citizens who have accepted to take
part to this cohors !

Valete omnes,


Lucilius and Memmius.


----------------------------EDICTUM 61-05----------------------------

CURULE AEDILES S. LUCILIUS TUTOR et P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
(n° 61-05) concerning the organization of the aedilician team for
2761 a.u.c. (de ordine cohortis aedilicianae pro MMDCCLXI auc)

We, Sextus Lucilius Tutor and Publius Memmius Albucius, aediles
curules, by the authority vested by the constitution, the laws and
the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;

In order to fulfill our duties as elected aediles curules and give
during this year 2761 auc the best service to the res publica and to
Nova Roma citizens,

Both edict :

Article 1

Aediles Lucilius and Memmius pay homage to all the previous aediles
curules who have all carried high Nova Roma's aedilitas flame, and to
the Factiones and their leaders who have, since several years,
allowed our Ludi circenses to meet the best success.

Article 2

Aediles Lucilius and Memmius create a joined team, called ? Cohors
aediliciana ?, with no personal name, so that the continuity with the
previous aedilitates be underlined.

Each of both aediles keep naturally free, as the constitution of Nova
Roma allows them, leaving this joined cohors and form his own
aedilician team.

Article 3

Aediles Lucilius and Memmius remain responsible, towards the People,
the Senate and the consuls, praetors and relevant powers, of their
duties, whatever they are performed directly by them or by one of
their assistants.

Article 4

A joined Cohors aediliciana is formed to assist the aediles curules,
with no distinction of particular relation. Thus, aedilis Lucilius
accepts that Quaestor Hortensia help the whole aedilitas, as well
aedilis Memmius for Quaestor Vitellius's intervention.

Article 5

The Cohors aediliciana is composed by the following citizens, listed
alphabetically by cognomen, who have accepted to assist the aediles
in a general advising task and in a preparation mission for the
organization of the Ludi curules. In addition, these citizens are
also assigned to the following tasks :
Gaius Marcius Crispus : secretary of the Cohors ; maintenance of the
macellum and ordo equester regulations in collaboration with the
censorate scribes.
Gn. Cornelius Lentulus : translations in Latin of the aediles edicta
and of other documents needed by the aediles's missions ;
maintenance, creation and feeding of the web pages belonging to the
aedilitas pages of NR web site ; European conventus.
M. Hortensia Maior quaestor : maintenance, creation and feeding of
the web pages belonging to the aedilitas pages of NR web site ;
public events ; religio romana and relations with the religious
institutions and with the censorate ; coordination of Ludi Megalenses.
Q. Valerius Poplicola : other conventus than European one ;
aedilician fund, specially Magna Mater Project.
A. Tullia Scholastica praetoris : translations in Latin of the
aediles edicta and of other documents needed by the aediles's
missions ; coordination of Ludi Romani.
T. Iulius Sabinus cos. : maintenance, creation and feeding of the web
pages belonging to the aedilitas pages of NR web site ; Dacian
(European) conventus, Summer 2761 auc., specially the coordination in
Dacia of the relevant Ludi.
L. Vitellius Triarius quaestor : maintenance, creation and feeding
of the web pages belonging to the aedilitas pages of NR web site ;
State real properties ; aedilician fund, specially Magna Mater
Project ; coordination of other 2761 auc curule Ludi (than Megalenses
and Romani).

Article 6

In accordance with novaroman laws, the abovementioned citizens are,
apart quaestors, appointed as scribes (scriba aedilicius/-a) for 2761
auc. As such, they are not asked to pronounce any oath of office.

From the publication of the present edict, every member of the team
may prefer leaving the Cohors just because the changing of its
organization, of its working lines or methods, which would not fit
anymore enough the conditions of this member's individual entry.
(S-)he is naturally free to such a resigning at any time, after a
short information of the aediles the day before.

Article 7

Aediles Lucilius and Memmius provide a joined coordination of the
Cohors and keep a direct relation with the other powers of Nova Roma.
The instructions given in the frame of the Cohors's list will be
reputed be given under both authority. In addition, the aediles
support more specifically the above quaestores and scribae in the
following fields :
Aed. Lucilius : European conventus, including conventus Daciae 2761
auc ;
Aed. Memmius : Macellum, including ordo equester regulations in
relation with the censors.

Article 8

A further edict may precise the intervention of every assistant in
the specific field of the Ludi curules.

A further edict will precise the organization of the aedilician fund,
and specially of the Magna Mater Project.

A further edict may complete the Cohors, specially through the
appointment of a scribe who would help T. Iulius Sabinus in his
coordination of the Ludi which are to be organized next summer 2761.

Article 9

The present edict is notified to every concerned citizen.

Article 10

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Tabularium_%28Nova_Roma%29, and
in Nova Roma Yahoo! relevant lists.


Issued simultaneously in Brno, Pannonia czeca et Cadomagus, Gallia,
Idus Ian. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (13th January 2008 c.c.) during the
consulate of M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54759 From: Livia Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Consul M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus has called the Senate into se
Tribuna Plebis L. Livia Plauta quiritibus S.P.D.

Consul M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus has called the Senate to order.

This is the message he posted to the Senate list:

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: T. Iulio Sabino Consuli
collegae, Praetoribus, Tribunibus Plebis, Senatoribus Patribus
Mátribusque Conscriptís, viris clarissimis et castissimae mulieribus,
omnibus quibusque in senatu senteniam dicere licet: salutem plurimam
dicit:

Consul edicit ut senatus frequens adsit:

The auspicia having been taken, "Aves admittunt!" These results
having been confirmed by the Augures: "Nuntiatio ab silentio": I come
seeking the advice of the Senate on the following agenda.

The Senate shall be called into session during the first hour (05.40
hrs. CET) on Thursday 17 Jan. 2761, with discussions to continue
until approximately sunset in Rome (17.00 hrs CET) on 21 Jan. 2761.
That is, I hora bona Veneris a. d. XIV AUC MMDCCLXI to the conclusion
of XII hora communis Mecuri a. d. X Kal. Feb. AUC MMDCCLXI.

Voting on the Agenda will then begin in the second hour at 06.45 hrs
CET on Weds. 23 Jan. 2761 and conclude at 17.00 hrs CET on Sat. 26
Jan. 2761. That is, II hora bona Iovi a. d. VIII Kal. Feb. AUC
MMDCCLXI until XII hora communis Lunae a. d. V Kal. Feb. AUC
MMDCCLXI. Senatores and Senatrices should not vote during night time
hours of their respective locations.


Sententiam rogo Senati. Quid de ea re fieri placent?

ITEM I

Our Ancestors placed the Gods as their starting point in every
important matter, and thus it was that when Varro advised Pompeius
Magnus on the proper ways of convening the Senate, he pointed out
that questions related to the Gods ought to be brought before the
Senate before any other matters. Therefore:

The Senate instructs the Consul to consult with the Collegium
Pontificum on preserving the Pax Deorum and to act on the advice of
the Pontifices wherever the Pax Deorum is in need of repair.


ITEM II

The Senate gives its assent to the tax rates for MMDCCLXI as provided
by the Consul.


ITEM III

The Senate extends its special thanks to Senator Marcus Octavius
Gracchus for his many years of service as Magister Aerarii and in
assisting the Magistri Aerarii, providing Nova Roma with a server,
restoring the website, archiving our records, and often single
handily providing technical support for our magistrates and Citizens
alike.


ITEM IV

The Senate appoints Quaestrix consularis Equestria Iunia Laeca
Curatrix Aerarii (Finacial Officer) for a term lasting two years from
the kalendae Februariae MMDCCLXI AUC (1 Feb. 2008) until the kalendae
Martiae MMDCCLXIII AUC (1 March 2010CE). In the event that the Senate
does not appoint another Curator Aerarii before Kal. Martis 2762 AUC,
Equestria Iunia Laeca shall be eligible to act in the capacity of
Chief Financial Officer of Nova Roma Inc. under the direction of the
Consuls until the Senate reconfirms her in office or replaces her.
This appointment may be superceded by senatus consultus or enactment
of legislation that establish financial officers for Nova Roma, Inc.
by other means.


ITEM V

The Senate authorizes Senator Curius Saturninus the use of the Nova
Roma name and logo in the production of "official Nova Roma
Calendars" for the years MMDCCLXI through MMDCCLXVI (2008 - 2013 CE).


ITEM VI

The Senate, at the request of the Censores in MMDCCLX, hereby revokes
the reprimand to former Citizen Lucius Marius Fimbria.

> Ref: Reprimand http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-09-09-
iii.html

> Ref: Censorial apology and withdrawal of nota:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1049


ITEM VII

The Senate lends its support to the Consul to issue an edictum
instructing list owners to approve without exception the requests of
all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to any and all lists that
are recognized as necessary in the administration of Nova Roma.
These lists shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com",
all provincial lists and those lists of all sodalitates that are
chartered by the Senate of Nova Roma.

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a
specific list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, or by
membership in a sodalitas or provincia, or special priesthood, list
owners shall none the less be instructed to subscribe members of the
Senate upon request, although the list owners may under such
circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in the edictum shall be any private lists of a
semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold
discussions with their advisors and appointees.


ITEM VIII

The Aediles Curules have requested an amendment to the SC governing
the Aedilician Fund. As it is currently written, the Aediles are
given fiduciary responsibility for the fund, but hold no actual
control or access to the funds, and must rely on others even for
reports. The intent of this amendment to the SC is to clarify and
define those relationships.

The current Senatus consultum issued in July 25th 2756, which created
the Aedilician fund, can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/13411 (ML 03/07/25).

It is the last section that the Aediles Curules wish changed from the
following:

"IV. The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. A detailed record of all donations and their
destinations will be kept by the Quaestores assigned to the Aediles
Curules. The Curule Aedilician Quaestores will also provide the
Consules with quarterly reports on the Aedilician Fund to be attached
to the national budget of Nova Roma."


The proposed and expanded version is thus:

"IV.a The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. As such, the Aediles define, in a common edict and in
the frame of the present senatus consultum, the rules concerning the
management of this fund;

IV.b The Aediles Curules are assisted by one or more quaestors who
shall be responsible for:

1. preparing all statements and reports of receipts and disbursements
of the fund, based on the information they receive from the assigned
consular quaestor(s) that concern donations to and disbursements from
the Aedilician Fund;

2. reporting regularly and each time requested to the Aediles Curules
on the status of the Aedilician Fund;

3. serving notice to the Aediles Curules immediately whenever
difficulties arise in the performance of their duties;

4. upon request of officers of the Senate, preparing reports for the
Senate, reviewed by the Aediles Curules, on the state of the
Aedilician Fund;

IV.c: Upon request, the Aediles Curules shall inform the Consuls and
every concerned magistrate on the state of the Aedilician Fund, based
on the reports made to them by their assigned Quaestores Aediles.

IV.d: The Aediles Curules shall prepare the annual accounting of the
Aedilician Fund, based on the records of their assigned Quaestors,
and present this report in a timely fashion to the Consuls in order
that it may be included as an attachment to the annual budget.

IV.e: In the case of an emergency concerning the Aedilician Fund, the
Aediles Curules shall request and shall be granted permission by the
presiding magistrate to address the Senate directly and respond to
any questions made by its


Vos quod fexitis, Senatores et Senatrices, Deos Omnes fortunare velim.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54760 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Edictum Gubernatorium XLV - Determina encontro regional em São Paul
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS CIVIBUS NOVAE ROMAE SPD

Envio abaixo o Édito do Governador Nº XLV da Província Brasilia.
I send you below the Governor Edictum No. XLV of Province Brasilia.

=======================

EDICTUM GUBERNATORIUM XLV

Determina encontro regional em São Paulo para o ano de 2761


Pelo imperium a mim investido pelo Senado de Nova Roma, decido:

I. Será organizado, durante o ano de 2761, um encontro regional de Nova Roma
na cidade de São Paulo.

II. O encontro, sob responsabilidade do scriba ludorum, será aberto a todos
os cidadãos de Nova Roma e seus convidados.

III. Os objetivos desse encontro serão, principalmente, promover a
integração entre os cidadãos, estimular o estudo e a vivência prática da
cultura e das virtudes romanas e divulgar Nova Roma. Além disso, espera-se
estimular cidadãos de outros lugares da Província a organizarem seus
próprios eventos locais.

IV. O governador e o scriba ludorum deverão informar aos cidadãos sobre o
andamento da organização do evento e garantir esforços no sentido de
divulgá-lo.


Em Campinas, ao décimo oitavo dia para as calendas de fevereiro do ano
consular de M. Moravius e T. Iulius.


TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Legatus Pro Praetore

=======================

EDICTUM GUBERNATORIUM XLV

Establishes a regional meeting in São Paulo for 2761


By the imperium given to me by the Senate of Nova Roma, I decide:

I. There shall be organized, during 2761, a Nova Roma regional meeting in
São Paulo city.

II. This meeting, under responsability of the scriba ludorum, shall be open
to all citizens of Nova Roma and their guests.

III. The purposes of this meeting are, mainly, to promote citizens
integration, to estimulate the study and the practical living of Roman
culture and virtues, and to divulgate Nova Roma. Besides, it is expected to
estimulate citizens from other places within the Province to organize their
own local events.

IV. The governor and the scriba ludorum shall inform the citizens about the
organization status of this event and to guarantee efforts aiming its
divulgation.


In Campinas, at the eighteenth day before the kalends of February of the
consular year of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.


TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Legatus Pro Praetore

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54761 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-01-15
Subject: Encontro de Nova Roma em São Paulo / NR Regional Meeting in São Pa
[English version below]

ENCONTRO REGIONAL DE NOVA ROMA EM SÃO PAULO

Informe nº 01
a.d. XVIII Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXI A.U.C. - 15/01/2008

Conforme estabelecido pelo Édito do Governador Nº XLV, haverá um encontro
regional de Nova Roma em São Paulo. O encontro ainda não tem data definida,
mas ocorrerá provavelmente em um sábado do próximo mês de fevereiro, e será
realizado no Teatro de Arena do Parque Municipal Villa Lobos, na Zona Oeste
da capital.

O evento contará com lutas de gladiadores, jogos, palestras e um pique-nique
com algumas comidas típicas.

O local será decorado com bandeiras e estandartes de Nova Roma e os
gladiadores usarão armaduras e armas feitas à mão especialmente para a
ocasião. Além disso, estamos mandando confeccionar togas em tecido e, assim
que tivermos o orçamento, informaremos para que aqueles que tiverem
interesse possam também fazer o pedido.

Gostaríamos de convidar a todos os cidadãos de Nova Roma que moram na Grande
São Paulo ou que possam se deslocar até lá. Tragam seus amigos, namorados,
parentes! Quanto mais pessoas estiverem presentes, mais rico e divertido
será o evento!

Os últimos detalhes estão sendo acertados, e aí enviaremos informes mais
detalhados.

Valete bene

TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Legatus Pro Praetore

LUCIUS GRATIUS NERVA
Scriba Ludorum

==================================

NOVA ROMA REGIONAL MEETING IN SÃO PAULO

Information nº 01
a.d. XVIII Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXI A.U.C. - 01/15/2008

According to the Gubernatorial Edictum No. XLV, there will be a Nova Roma
regional meeting in São Paulo. We do not have any confirmed date, but it
will probably be in a Saturday on next February. It will be held at the
Amphitheatre of the City Park Villa Lobos, in São Paulo City.

The event will have gladiator fights, games, lectures and a picnic with
tipical food.

The place will be decorated with NR flags and the gladiators will wear and
use handmade armors and weapons. Besides, we are currently having some togas
made. We will soon inform about the prices for those who also wants a one.

We would like to invite all Nova Roma citizens who live in São Paulo
Metropolitan Area, and also those who are able to travel to that place.
Bring your friends, fiancés, relatives! The more people participate, the
more fun we will have!

A few details are still missing, and we will be informing you about them as
soon as we are able to.

Valete bene

TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Legatus Pro Praetore

LUCIUS GRATIUS NERVA
Scriba Ludorum

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54762 From: Andreas Lachmann Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: A question about the Arminii
Salvete,
I wonder.Do the Arminii have a special bond to any particular god ?
Maybe a fellow member of our gens can help me with this one.
Valete,D.Arm.Brvtvs

_________________________________________________________________
Overpaid or Underpaid? Check our comprehensive Salary Centre
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54763 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: a. d. XV Kal. Feb. Concordiae
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos ament

Hodiernus est ante diem XV Kalendas Februaris; haec dies comitialis
est: Concordiae

"Radiant one, the next day places you in your snow-white shrine,
Near where lofty Moneta lifts her noble stairway:
Concord, you will gaze on the Latin crowd's prosperity,
Now sacred hands have established you." ~ Ovid, Fasti 1.637-41

The first Temple of Concordia was dedicated by M. Furius Camillus on
22 July 367 BCE. It was built in the north-west corner of the Forum,
near the Comitium, beneath the Temple of Juno Moneta. Today's
festival, however, refers to the rededication of the Temple of
Concordia by Tiberius in 10 CE, which he rebuilt from wealth acquired
in his campaigns in Germania in 8 BCE. Tiberius' military career is
summed up by Suetonius and Velleius Paterculus:

"His first military service was as tribune of the soldiers in the
campaign against the Cantabrians [25 BCE]; then he led an army to the
Orient and restored the throne of Armenia to Tigranes, crowning him
on the tribunal. He besides recovered the standards which the
Parthians had taken from Marcus Crassus. Then for about a year he was
governor of Gallia Comata [Transalpine Gaul], which was in a state of
unrest through the inroads of the barbarians and the dissensions of
its chiefs. Next he carried on war with the Raeti and Vindelici, then
in Pannonia, and finally in Germania. In the first of these wars he
subdued the Alpine tribes, in the second the Breuci and Dalmatians,
and in the third he brought forty thousand prisoners of war over into
Gaul and assigned them homes near the bank of the Rhine. Because of
these exploits he entered the city both in an ovation and riding in a
chariot [7 BCE], having previously, as some think, been honoured with
the triumphal regalia, a new kind of distinction never before
conferred upon anyone." ~ Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars:
Tiberius 9


"On [Tiberius] Nero's return [from subduing Armenia] Caesar
[Augustus] resolved to test his powers in a war of no slight
magnitude. In this work he gave him as a collaborator his own brother
Drusus Claudius, to whom Livia gave birth when already in the house
of Caesar. The two brothers attacked the Raeti and Vindelici from
different directions, and after storming many towns and strongholds,
as well as engaging successfully in pitched battles, with more danger
than real loss to the Roman army, though with much bloodshed on the
part of the enemy, they thoroughly subdued these races [in 15 BCE],
protected as they were by the nature of the country, difficult of
access, strong in numbers, and fiercely warlike.

"Shortly after, the Pannonian war, which had been begun by Agrippa in
the consulate of your grandfather, Marcus Vinicius, was conducted by
Nero, a war which was important and formidable enough, and on account
of its proximity a menace to ItalyÂ… After achieving this victory Nero
celebrated an ovation. But while everything was being successfully
managed in this quarter of the either, a disaster received in Germany
under Marcus Lollius the legate — he was a man who was ever more
eager for money than for honest action, and of vicious habits in
spite of his excessive efforts at concealment — and the loss of the
eagle of the fifth legion, summoned Caesar from the city to the
provinces of Gaul. The burden of responsibility for this war was then
entrusted to Drusus Claudius, the brother of Nero, a young man
endowed with as many great qualities as men's nature is capable of
receiving or application developing. It would be hard to say whether
his talents were the better adapted to a military career or the
duties of life; at any rate, the charm and the sweetness of his
character are said to have been inimitable, and also his modest
attitude of equality towards his friends. As for his personal beauty,
it was second only to that of his brother. But, after accomplishing
to a great extent the subjection of Germany, in which much blood of
that people was shed on various battlefields, an unkind fate carried
him off during his consulship, in his thirtieth year. The burden of
responsibility for this war was then transferred to Nero. He carried
it on with his customary valour and good fortune, and after
traversing every part of Germany in a victorious campaign, without
any loss of the army entrusted to him - for he made this one of his
chief concerns - he so subdued the country as to reduce it almost to
the status of a tributary province. He then received a second
triumph, and a second consulship." ~ excepts from Velleius
Paterculus, Historia Romanae ad Marcum Vinicium 2.95-97


Our thought for today, since I have been going through Stoics and
Epicurians, is a comment by Cicero, in De Officiis (1.2.5) about both
philosophical schools:

"But there are some schools that distort all notions of duty by the
theories they propose touching the supreme good and the supreme evil.
For he who posits the supreme good as having no connection with
virtue and measures it not by a moral standard but by his own
interests — if he should be consistent and not rather at times over-
ruled by his better nature, he could value neither friendship nor
justice nor generosity; and brave he surely cannot possibly be that
counts pain the supreme evil, nor temperate he that holds pleasure to
be the supreme good."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54764 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: TROY on BBC 7 - radio drama
C. Aurelia Falco Silvana omnibus civibus SPD.

The story of TROY, closely based on Homer's writings, is
on line as a radio play with some of the finest actors in
Britain, including Paul Scofield. (3 parts of 90 minutes each)

Part 1 first aired on January 13, and will be posted
for 6 days (until January 19). It is not downloadable,
so do listen before it is deleted.

Part 2 will air on Jan 20, part 3 on Jan 27 (Sundays)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/programmes/#t

Scroll down to / click on "T" to get to TROY in the list
of programs aired in the previous 6 days.

[I very much enjoyed Part 1 -- [production values are very
high, as one would expect of the BBC.)

Concordiam laudamus. Valete bene in pace Deorum.

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54765 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Sacra Privata Poll
Salvete Romani! I wanted if I may to conduct a poll
among Nova Roma Romani to find out just how many of
you practice the Sacra Privata or domestic worship of
the Roman Household Gods with prayers and offerings!
Do you maintain a Lararium in your home or apartment
and do you offer to your Lares and Penates?! I
certainly do and it is wonderful to know that I am not
alone in my practice of the Cultus Deorum Romanum!!!
Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs


____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54766 From: bill segura Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: A question about the Arminii
Salvete,
My Family
Hercules Diana and Neptune.
As you might have guessed, we hunt and fish.
Neptune is rather new to the family. We put in a pond with Koi and goldfish with a small but nice underwater mosaic of the god Neptune. It surrounds the shrine to Diana.

T.Arm. Germanicus

Andreas Lachmann <pagermanicvs@...> wrote:

Salvete,
I wonder.Do the Arminii have a special bond to any particular god ?
Maybe a fellow member of our gens can help me with this one.
Valete,D.Arm.Brvtvs

_________________________________________________________________
Overpaid or Underpaid? Check our comprehensive Salary Centre
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent%2Emycareer%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%3Fs%5Fcid%3D595810&_t=766724125&_r=Hotmail_Email_Tagline_MyCareer_Oct07&_m=EXT

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Yahoo! Groups Links






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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54767 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Encontro de Nova Roma em São Paulo / NR Regional Me
Salve, Tite Armini!

Do not forget to make photos of the event!

Vale!

Lentulus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54768 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for UFMT
SALVE ET SALVETE NOVA ROMANI!

I, citizen LUCIUS FIDELIUS LUSITANUS, have the pleasure of telling you a very important notice related to me:

I conferred the approvation list of UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso, and saw my name on it, what means one thing: I WAS APPROUVED!

fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal university!

I'd like to share the joy of this special moment with my fellow companions, so feel free to cherish me and give me comments.

I'd like the censors to suggest me a cognomen related to this conquest and with their approuval, I'd like to use this cognomen to symbolize it!

Vale et Valete!

Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54769 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Religious Celebration on Dies Concordiae - Opening of the Virtual Te
+++Opening of the Virtual Temple of Concordia Novae Romae+++

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, camillus Concordiae, sacerdos Pannoniae, quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis plebis, senatui populoque Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:


Salvete, Quirites!

May Harmony shine upon you brightly! I have the pleasure to announce you all that the new Virtual Temple of Godess Concordia is OPEN!!!

Visit the Virtual Temple of Concordia and leave a personal, public prayer!

THIS IS the Virtual Temple of the Concord of the Nova Roman People:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29



Today's sacrifice has been done before my home altar. I worshipped Concordia for the unity, strenghten and successful harmony of the New Roman People and I have given Her wine and incense. The ritual has been this:



SACRIFICIVM CONCORDIAE DIE TEMPLI CONCORDIAE AVGVSTAE ANNI SACRI X NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE


Favete linguis!

(beginning of the sacrifice.)

PRAEFATIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

(Libation of wine is made.)

INVOCATIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
dea pacis et fortitudinis Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
hoc die templi Concordiae Augustae dedicationis
anni decimi Novae Romae conditae
te precor, veneror, quaeso, obtestor:

PRECATIO

uti pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;

utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis, uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!


(Libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

REDDITIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
uti te ture commovendo
et vino libando
bonas preces bene precatus sum,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto!


(Libation of wine is made)



Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)


PIACULUM

Iane,
Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine is made.)




Valete in Concordia!

May Concordia be with you!




Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulis T. Iulii Sabini
Scriba Praetoris M. Curiatii Complutensis
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54770 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-01-16
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Salve Lusitane,

E muitos parabéns!!.

Vale optime bene.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Bruno Cantermi <brunocantermi@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; nrbrasil@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:51:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso[OFF - TOPIC]

SALVE ET SALVETE NOVA ROMANI!

I, citizen LUCIUS FIDELIUS LUSITANUS, have the pleasure of telling you a very important notice related to me:

I conferred the approvation list of UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso, and saw my name on it, what means one thing: I WAS APPROUVED!

fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal university!

I'd like to share the joy of this special moment with my fellow companions, so feel free to cherish me and give me comments.

I'd like the censors to suggest me a cognomen related to this conquest and with their approuval, I'd like to use this cognomen to symbolize it!

Vale et Valete!

Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54771 From: Scott Miller Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
M. OVIDIVS SCÆVA IVLIANO OMNIBVSQVE sal,

I am a new citizen of Nova Roma; though neither me nor my wife Aurelia currently practice the Religion Romana as outlined in the website (or is that "Religion Romana Novae"?) But we do have our household gods and pay tribute to them like any virtuous citizen.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54772 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: a. d. XVI Kal. Feb. Ara Numinis Augusti
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvam et servatam volunt

Hodie est ante diem XVI Kalendas Februaras; haec dies comitialis est:
Felicitas; Ara Numinis Augusti.

Why are we back to XVI days before the calends? Because in the
example of the Roman calender that I have been using, the fasti of
Antium, January had 29 days instead of 31. This being a leap year
ought to be fun - the Romans inserted an extra 24th Feb. rather than
add on a 29th February.

AUC 715 / 38 BCE: Marriage of Augustus Caesar to Livia.

AUC 747 / 6 BCE: Dedication of the Ara Numinis Augusti.

AUC 795 / 42 CE: Deification of Livia as Iulia Augusta by her
grandson Emperor Claudius.

In 6 BCE Tiberius was consul. After preparing to the Temple of
Concordia on 16 Jan. he and his mother Livia dedicated the precinct
of Livia. He entertained members of the Senate at the Capitolium,
while she was hostess elsewhere at a banquet for the ladies of the
City. This became a day celebrating Felicitatis in connection with
the wedding anniversary of Livia to Augustus. The precinct of Livia
has an interesting tale.

"In this same year (15 BCE) Vedius Pollio died. This man had
achieved nothing worthy of record, since he was born of a freedman,
belonged to the equestrian order and had never performed any action
of renown. He had, however, become very well known for two reasons,
his wealth and his cruelty, so that he has even found a place in
history. Most of his actions are too insignificant to report, but I
may mention that he kept in tanks giant eels which had been trained
to devour men, and he was in the habit of throwing to them those of
his slaves whom he wished to put to death. Once, when he was
entertaining Augustus, his cup-bearer broke a crystal goblet.
Thereupon Vedius, paying no attention to his guest, ordered the slave
to be thrown to the eels. The boy fell on his knees before Augustus
and implored his protection, and the emperor at first tried to
persuade Vedius not to commit so appalling an action. When Pollio
paid no heed, Augustus said, 'Bring all your other drinking vessels
like this one, or any others of value that you possess for me to
use.' When these were brought, he ordered them to be smashed.
Vedius was naturally vexed at the sight; but since he could no longer
be angry about the one goblet in view of the multitude of others that
had been destroyed, and could not punish his servant for an act which
Augustus had repeated, he restrained himself and said nothing. This
is the kind of man Vedius was; he died that year as I have
mentioned. He left many bequests to many people, and to Augustus he
gave a large share of his estate, together with Pausilypon, a stretch
of land between Neapolis and Puteoli, with the instructions that some
work of outstanding beauty should be erected for the people. On the
pretext of putting up such a monument, Augustus had his house razed
to the ground, but his real intention was that Vedius should have no
monument in the City; instead he built a colonnade and had inscribed
on it the name not of Vedius, but of Livia." ~ Cassius Dio 54.23


Our thought for today, in Plutarch, On the Virtues of Alexander 1.6,
comes from by Zeno of Citium.

"The much-admired 'Republic' of Zeno, the founder of the Stoic sect,
may be summed up in this one main principle, that all the inhabitants
of this world of ours should not live differentiated into separate
cities and communities, each one marked out by its own legal system,
but we should regard all men as our fellow-citizens and local
residents, in one community and one polity, and that we should have a
common way of life and an order common to us all, even as a herd
grazing together and sharing the pasturage of a common field,
nurtured by a common law. Zeno wrote this, giving shape to a dream
or, as it were, a shadowy image of a philosopher's well-regulated
society; but it was Alexander who gave effect to the idea."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54773 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salve Ivlianvs!:
Keeping a Lararium is not always easy, although a daily candle might somehow give the "fiery" idea. We make daily offerings, using each day of the week for a different group of Deities (somewhat reunited according to their attributes). At night, after we both finished our daily work, we lit some incense as additional offerings.
It might not quite follow strict guidelines, but at least it is a daily tribute.
Vale bene.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
D. Cassius Lupus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "GAIVS IVLIANVS" <ivlianvs309@...>
To: <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <religioromana@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Sacra Privata Poll


> Salvete Romani! I wanted if I may to conduct a poll among Nova Roma Romani to find out just how many of you practice the Sacra Privata or domestic worship of the Roman Household Gods with prayers and offerings!
> Do you maintain a Lararium in your home or apartment and do you offer to your Lares and Penates?! I certainly do and it is wonderful to know that I am not alone in my practice of the Cultus Deorum Romanum!!!
> Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54774 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
A. Apollonius L. Fidelio sal.

> fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal
university!

Congratulations, L. Fideli. I hope you find your studies exciting and rewarding.



___________________________________________________________
Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54775 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-17
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
--Maior Lusitane spd;
many congratulations! Have a wonderful time at your studies.
How I loved mine!
bene vale
M. Hortensia Maiord
>
> Salve Lusitane,
>
> E muitos parabéns!!.
>
> Vale optime bene.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bruno Cantermi <brunocantermi@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; nrbrasil@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:51:30 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] important communicate - approvation on the
admission exams for UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso[OFF -
TOPIC]
>
> SALVE ET SALVETE NOVA ROMANI!
>
> I, citizen LUCIUS FIDELIUS LUSITANUS, have the pleasure of telling
you a very important notice related to me:
>
> I conferred the approvation list of UFMT - Universidade Federal de
Mato Grosso, and saw my name on it, what means one thing: I WAS
APPROUVED!
>
> fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal
university!
>
> I'd like to share the joy of this special moment with my fellow
companions, so feel free to cherish me and give me comments.
>
> I'd like the censors to suggest me a cognomen related to this
conquest and with their approuval, I'd like to use this cognomen to
symbolize it!
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54776 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: a. d. Kal. Feb.: feriae Iunonis
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XV Kalendas Februaras; haec dies comitialis est:
feriae Iunonis:

"Beneath the Esquiline hillside there was a grove, unaxed for years,
named after great Juno." ~ Ovid, Fasti 2.435-436

"There stood the grove of the Goddess, dark-shadowed, immemorial –
one step inside and you know that some spirit resides within the
place. There's a rough old altar, raised by divine hands, where
worshippers mutter prayers over incense plumes. Through garland
streets, with solemn chanting to the skirl of flutes, and the cheers
of bystanders, comes the annual procession, leading snow-white
heifers, sleek on Falerian pastures, and young calves, unbellowing,
with yet buds on their foreheads. Humble pigs from the sty come next
to placate the God, and wethers with horns curved round their
temples. Only the goat is banned, by Juno's command. When She fled
from Jove's wedding bed, and sought shelter deep within this forest,
the bleat of a goat gave Her away. So to this day little children
cast sticks at the tattler, and whoever scores first, by Her law,
wins a nanny goat as prize. Ahead of the Goddess walks youths and shy
virgins, their hems sweeping the broad streets, the girls hair all
entwined with gold and jewels, gilded shoes peering out from
underneath embroidered mantles. Veiled, white-robed in Greek fashion,
maidens bear the sacred vessels on their heads. The crowd falls into
silent reverence as Juno Herself passes on a gilded float drawn by
Her priestesses." ~ P. Ovidius Naso, 'Amores' 3.13.7-31

A woman's festival for Juno was held on this date. We may suppose
this to have taken place on the Esquiline Hill. The hill had
received its name from the many oaks planted on it by King Servius
Tullius. The Esquiline had two spurs on either side of the Via
Salaria, Mons Oppius and Mons Cespius. The Beech Grove on the left
of the road, was on the Oppian Hill, and just beyond it, along a
wall, was the first shrine of the Argei. There on the right was the
chapel of Lares Querquetulanes who dwelt in the Oak Groves. Then,
moving up Mons Cespius, was an Augustan Temple of the Nymphs of
healing waters, further up the slope was the sacred grove of Sabine
Mefula, and next Her grove was the Temple of Juno Lucina. Mefula,
otherwise called Mefitis by the Samnites, was associated with
volcanic exhalations and sulfurous waters. Thus Her groves were
known as places of purification as at Rome, of prophecy as with the
White Sibyl near the River Albuna outside Tibur, and of healing
waters as with Mefitis Utiana of Potentia. At Rome Mefitis was
called upon mostly to avert pestilence brought by malodorous airs.
Nearby were the temples of Dea Iuno Februa (Goddess of Purification)
and Bona Salus (Goddess of Good Health). Across the way were temples
dedicated to the goddesses of fevers, Terzana and Quartana. Like
Mefula, these were considered goddesses of the Underworld who could
avert, as well as bring on, fevers. It was in the midst of this
complex of temples related to healing, situated on Mons Cespius, that
King Titus Tatius first dedicated an oak grove to Juno Lucina. Then
in 375 BCE, a Temple of Juno Lucina was erected in Her locus (Varro,
LL v.49, 50, 74; Fest. 348; Dionys 4.1.5; Pliny NH 16.2.35).


"Because it is You, Goddess, who brings life into the light of day,
kind Lucina, I pray that You spare pregnant girls from labor's
hardship, and gently birth ripened infants from their wombs." ~ Ovid,
Fasti 2.451-452


Our thought for today is taken from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 3.3:

"Thou hast embarked, thou hast made the voyage, thou art come to
shore; get out. If indeed to another life, there is no want of gods,
not even there. But if to a state without sensation, thou wilt cease
to be held by pains and pleasures, and to be a slave to the vessel,
which is as much inferior as that which serves it is superior: for
the one is intelligence and deity; the other is earth and corruption."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54777 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission exams for U
Salve bene Luci Fideli

Gratulor et optimam Fortunam tibi exopto!

A great and festive day indeed. And what area of studies are you
undertaking?

Vale optime
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Cantermi"
<brunocantermi@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE ET SALVETE NOVA ROMANI!
>
> I, citizen LUCIUS FIDELIUS LUSITANUS, have the pleasure of telling
you a very important notice related to me:
>
> I conferred the approvation list of UFMT - Universidade Federal de
Mato Grosso, and saw my name on it, what means one thing: I WAS
APPROUVED!
>
> fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal
university!
>
> I'd like to share the joy of this special moment with my fellow
companions, so feel free to cherish me and give me comments.
>
> I'd like the censors to suggest me a cognomen related to this
conquest and with their approuval, I'd like to use this cognomen to
symbolize it!
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54778 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salve Gai Iuli

Yes, of course. As a gentilis Romanus I maintain a lararium for my
ancestors, which is in my dining room so that we may share meals
together. In that lararium is a statue of Venus and pictures of my
deceased relatives and friends. Then, as a cultor Deorum, on either
side of that lararium are statues or photos of deities who are part
of the family's cultus. Above all is Jupiter, and there are
Hercules, Faunus, Flora, Apollo, Silvanus, Roma, and Ceres.

In the kitchen is a shrine for Vesta and the Penates. At the front
door is Janus. In the living room is a small sacullum for Venus and
Adonis. Upstairs, above my computer is a little shrine for Mars.
And in my bedroom is a private lararium that features Ceres Ferentina
as my family's Lar Familiaris.

Outdoors there are separate altars for Terminus, Carmentis, Silvanus,
Diana, Jupiter, and the Manes, centered around a hortus Cereri in
which is my main altar, and a large statue of Ceres, and an omphalus
with a crevice to receive offering for Proserpina. Here, too,
offerings are made to the Genius locii. At this time of year the
altars are rather plain, but still receive offerings. I have clay
tabula on which I have painted images of Ceres, Proserpina, Pales,
Silvanus, Diana, and Liber and Libera. These are used on different
occaisons to decorate altars.

Then, too, beyond my own land, there are special places I visit to
converse with the geni locii of those places; Lares Viales, Lemures
or Manes.

What I do each day in my practices depends on what I am doing, or
where I may be. A family meal is shared with the Lares at least once
a week. Daily they are offered incense and music, oftentimes
flowers. Offerings for Vesta and for the Penates on most days as I
work in the kitchen often; this might be incense, flowers, stones,
coins, or any number of other offerings. For Ceres and Pater Mars
each day, and offerings for the Manes each day at the outdoor altar.
Very often, although not daily, for Jupiter. And then for the rest
on various occasions. I don't keep a particular schedule as I prefer
to simply live among my Gods. Then what I offer will depend on the
occasion and to which deities I am offering. Spring sees me
continuing tradizione della Famiglia with a special offering to Giove
of lamb grilled Abruzzese that I serve along with wine and libum
cakes. In late March I make a bread altar for Ceres; that is, a
table set with various kinds of loaves of bread, cakes, cookies,
libum and strues, served with honeyed milk, fruit, and moretum. The
Manes receive daily portions of seed and/or beans, sometimes along
with bacon fat and other treats. But twice a year they receive oil,
salt, ground grain, libum, milk, honey, and fruit. The same may be
offered to the Lares Viales at a nearby crossroads. One place is
reserved for certain special Manes to whom I will also offer wine and
some other special offerings, including goat occationally. And a
different sort of Manes altogether receives clippings and weeds from
my garden, with an occasional offering of something else, too. For
Geni locii elsewhere I usually bring herbs from my garden. And from
places I visit I may bring herbs, stones, feathers, or flowers to my
shrines at home. My practices are really rather diverse, and though
asked often enough times I still can't really describe them.

Vale et vade in pace Deorum
Piscinus



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete Romani! I wanted if I may to conduct a poll
> among Nova Roma Romani to find out just how many of
> you practice the Sacra Privata or domestic worship of
> the Roman Household Gods with prayers and offerings!
> Do you maintain a Lararium in your home or apartment
> and do you offer to your Lares and Penates?! I
> certainly do and it is wonderful to know that I am not
> alone in my practice of the Cultus Deorum Romanum!!!
> Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54779 From: GAIVS IVLIANVS Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salve Marce! Mvltas gratias tibi ago!!! Your account
is the most descriptive and impressive I've read yet!
Your pietas and devotion to the Cvltvs Deorvm is most
worthy!!! Vale! Frater et amicvs tvvs, Gaivs Ivlianvs
--- marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:

> Salve Gai Iuli
>
> Yes, of course. As a gentilis Romanus I maintain a
> lararium for my
> ancestors, which is in my dining room so that we may
> share meals
> together. In that lararium is a statue of Venus and
> pictures of my
> deceased relatives and friends. Then, as a cultor
> Deorum, on either
> side of that lararium are statues or photos of
> deities who are part
> of the family's cultus. Above all is Jupiter, and
> there are
> Hercules, Faunus, Flora, Apollo, Silvanus, Roma, and
> Ceres.
>
> In the kitchen is a shrine for Vesta and the
> Penates. At the front
> door is Janus. In the living room is a small
> sacullum for Venus and
> Adonis. Upstairs, above my computer is a little
> shrine for Mars.
> And in my bedroom is a private lararium that
> features Ceres Ferentina
> as my family's Lar Familiaris.
>
> Outdoors there are separate altars for Terminus,
> Carmentis, Silvanus,
> Diana, Jupiter, and the Manes, centered around a
> hortus Cereri in
> which is my main altar, and a large statue of Ceres,
> and an omphalus
> with a crevice to receive offering for Proserpina.
> Here, too,
> offerings are made to the Genius locii. At this time
> of year the
> altars are rather plain, but still receive
> offerings. I have clay
> tabula on which I have painted images of Ceres,
> Proserpina, Pales,
> Silvanus, Diana, and Liber and Libera. These are
> used on different
> occaisons to decorate altars.
>
> Then, too, beyond my own land, there are special
> places I visit to
> converse with the geni locii of those places; Lares
> Viales, Lemures
> or Manes.
>
> What I do each day in my practices depends on what I
> am doing, or
> where I may be. A family meal is shared with the
> Lares at least once
> a week. Daily they are offered incense and music,
> oftentimes
> flowers. Offerings for Vesta and for the Penates on
> most days as I
> work in the kitchen often; this might be incense,
> flowers, stones,
> coins, or any number of other offerings. For Ceres
> and Pater Mars
> each day, and offerings for the Manes each day at
> the outdoor altar.
> Very often, although not daily, for Jupiter. And
> then for the rest
> on various occasions. I don't keep a particular
> schedule as I prefer
> to simply live among my Gods. Then what I offer
> will depend on the
> occasion and to which deities I am offering. Spring
> sees me
> continuing tradizione della Famiglia with a special
> offering to Giove
> of lamb grilled Abruzzese that I serve along with
> wine and libum
> cakes. In late March I make a bread altar for
> Ceres; that is, a
> table set with various kinds of loaves of bread,
> cakes, cookies,
> libum and strues, served with honeyed milk, fruit,
> and moretum. The
> Manes receive daily portions of seed and/or beans,
> sometimes along
> with bacon fat and other treats. But twice a year
> they receive oil,
> salt, ground grain, libum, milk, honey, and fruit.
> The same may be
> offered to the Lares Viales at a nearby crossroads.
> One place is
> reserved for certain special Manes to whom I will
> also offer wine and
> some other special offerings, including goat
> occationally. And a
> different sort of Manes altogether receives
> clippings and weeds from
> my garden, with an occasional offering of something
> else, too. For
> Geni locii elsewhere I usually bring herbs from my
> garden. And from
> places I visit I may bring herbs, stones, feathers,
> or flowers to my
> shrines at home. My practices are really rather
> diverse, and though
> asked often enough times I still can't really
> describe them.
>
> Vale et vade in pace Deorum
> Piscinus
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS
> <ivlianvs309@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Romani! I wanted if I may to conduct a
> poll
> > among Nova Roma Romani to find out just how many
> of
> > you practice the Sacra Privata or domestic worship
> of
> > the Roman Household Gods with prayers and
> offerings!
> > Do you maintain a Lararium in your home or
> apartment
> > and do you offer to your Lares and Penates?! I
> > certainly do and it is wonderful to know that I am
> not
> > alone in my practice of the Cultus Deorum
> Romanum!!!
> > Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> >
>
>
>



____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54780 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission examsfor UF
I'm going to study chemistry, and I'd like to have a cognomen to symbolize my victory.

Vale,

Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
----- Original Message -----
From: marcushoratius
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: important communicate - approvation on the admission examsfor UFMT - Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso[OFF - TOPIC]


Salve bene Luci Fideli

Gratulor et optimam Fortunam tibi exopto!

A great and festive day indeed. And what area of studies are you
undertaking?

Vale optime
M Moravius Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Cantermi"
<brunocantermi@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE ET SALVETE NOVA ROMANI!
>
> I, citizen LUCIUS FIDELIUS LUSITANUS, have the pleasure of telling
you a very important notice related to me:
>
> I conferred the approvation list of UFMT - Universidade Federal de
Mato Grosso, and saw my name on it, what means one thing: I WAS
APPROUVED!
>
> fom now onwards, I am an university student! I'm on a federal
university!
>
> I'd like to share the joy of this special moment with my fellow
companions, so feel free to cherish me and give me comments.
>
> I'd like the censors to suggest me a cognomen related to this
conquest and with their approuval, I'd like to use this cognomen to
symbolize it!
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus SPD.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54781 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
Salve,

I just got an e-mail from this company and they are selling a Roman
"Swiss Army multifunction like tool". I think I might end up buying
one. Here is the page on the tool to look at:

http://www.mambri.com/cosasArmillum/Cuchillo-Multiusos.html

And here is their main page:

http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?main_page=index&language=en

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54782 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salvete,

I am very impressed by Piscinus, but then he is always impressive in all he does.
I have a lararium I built myself. It is in a separate room where everyday I conduct all my morning and evening rites to Vesta. At certain times of the year for special rituals, I have an outdoor hearth where I can light a fire, which I do so in the traditional way and that took some mastering, believe me!

Valete bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."




marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salve Gai Iuli

Yes, of course. As a gentilis Romanus I maintain a lararium for my
ancestors, which is in my dining room so that we may share meals
together. In that lararium is a statue of Venus and pictures of my
deceased relatives and friends. Then, as a cultor Deorum, on either
side of that lararium are statues or photos of deities who are part
of the family's cultus. Above all is Jupiter, and there are
Hercules, Faunus, Flora, Apollo, Silvanus, Roma, and Ceres.

In the kitchen is a shrine for Vesta and the Penates. At the front
door is Janus. In the living room is a small sacullum for Venus and
Adonis. Upstairs, above my computer is a little shrine for Mars.
And in my bedroom is a private lararium that features Ceres Ferentina
as my family's Lar Familiaris.

Outdoors there are separate altars for Terminus, Carmentis, Silvanus,
Diana, Jupiter, and the Manes, centered around a hortus Cereri in
which is my main altar, and a large statue of Ceres, and an omphalus
with a crevice to receive offering for Proserpina. Here, too,
offerings are made to the Genius locii. At this time of year the
altars are rather plain, but still receive offerings. I have clay
tabula on which I have painted images of Ceres, Proserpina, Pales,
Silvanus, Diana, and Liber and Libera. These are used on different
occaisons to decorate altars.

Then, too, beyond my own land, there are special places I visit to
converse with the geni locii of those places; Lares Viales, Lemures
or Manes.

What I do each day in my practices depends on what I am doing, or
where I may be. A family meal is shared with the Lares at least once
a week. Daily they are offered incense and music, oftentimes
flowers. Offerings for Vesta and for the Penates on most days as I
work in the kitchen often; this might be incense, flowers, stones,
coins, or any number of other offerings. For Ceres and Pater Mars
each day, and offerings for the Manes each day at the outdoor altar.
Very often, although not daily, for Jupiter. And then for the rest
on various occasions. I don't keep a particular schedule as I prefer
to simply live among my Gods. Then what I offer will depend on the
occasion and to which deities I am offering. Spring sees me
continuing tradizione della Famiglia with a special offering to Giove
of lamb grilled Abruzzese that I serve along with wine and libum
cakes. In late March I make a bread altar for Ceres; that is, a
table set with various kinds of loaves of bread, cakes, cookies,
libum and strues, served with honeyed milk, fruit, and moretum. The
Manes receive daily portions of seed and/or beans, sometimes along
with bacon fat and other treats. But twice a year they receive oil,
salt, ground grain, libum, milk, honey, and fruit. The same may be
offered to the Lares Viales at a nearby crossroads. One place is
reserved for certain special Manes to whom I will also offer wine and
some other special offerings, including goat occationally. And a
different sort of Manes altogether receives clippings and weeds from
my garden, with an occasional offering of something else, too. For
Geni locii elsewhere I usually bring herbs from my garden. And from
places I visit I may bring herbs, stones, feathers, or flowers to my
shrines at home. My practices are really rather diverse, and though
asked often enough times I still can't really describe them.

Vale et vade in pace Deorum
Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete Romani! I wanted if I may to conduct a poll
> among Nova Roma Romani to find out just how many of
> you practice the Sacra Privata or domestic worship of
> the Roman Household Gods with prayers and offerings!
> Do you maintain a Lararium in your home or apartment
> and do you offer to your Lares and Penates?! I
> certainly do and it is wonderful to know that I am not
> alone in my practice of the Cultus Deorum Romanum!!!
> Valete! Gaivs Ivlivs Ivlianvs
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>






---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54783 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Re: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
SALVETE!

I just received that note from Armillum, too. Very interesting! I didn't know about this roman utility knife until now.
(good enough to stress my friend Iulius Probus who is fan of all "Swiss" things - it seems, as always, Romans were the first)

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Charlie Collins <walhallan@...> wrote:
Salve,

I just got an e-mail from this company and they are selling a Roman
"Swiss Army multifunction like tool". I think I might end up buying
one. Here is the page on the tool to look at:

http://www.mambri.com/cosasArmillum/Cuchillo-Multiusos.html

And here is their main page:

http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?main_page=index&language=en

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus





"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54784 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-01-18
Subject: Contact pages.
SALVETE!

To all concerned citizens:

This year magistrates can be contacted using this address:

http://www.novaroma.org/bin/contact

Consuls have a special page where you can leave an idea, opinion,
suggestion or comment:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Talk:Officina_Consulum_MMDCCLXI

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Consul.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54785 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: a. d. XIIII Kal. Feb.: Sulpicia, Verticordia, and Viriplaca
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sitis

Hodie est ante diem XIIII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
est:

AUC 538 / 215 BCE: Sulpicia, the Most Chaste Matron

"Meanwhile the two commissioners were appointed for the dedication of
temples: T. Otacilius Crassus dedicated the temple to Mens, Q. Fabius
Maximus the one to Venus Erycina. Both are on the Capitol, separated
only by a water channel." ~ Titus Livius 23.31.9

"Sulpicia, daughter of Ser. Paterculus and wife of Q. Fulvius
Flaccus, deserves to be added (among illustrious men). After the
Sibylline books had been inspected by the Decemviri, the Senate
ordained that an image of Venus Verticordia be consecrated, the more
easily to turn the minds of virgins and married women from lust to
chastity; and that from all the matrons one hundred and from the one
hundred ten chosen by lot should make the judgement, who was the most
blameless of the sex. Sulpicia was placed above them all for her
purity." ~ Valerius Maximus 8.15.12 (See also Plinius Secunda,
Historia Naturalis 7.35 and Ovid, Fasti 4.157-160)

The year and date of this dedication of an image or statue of Venus
Verticordia is uncertain. Q. Fulvius Flaccus was consul in 237,
224, 212, and again in 209 BCE. His son, we may assume, served as
consul suffectus in 180, and then as consul in 179 BCE. But Sulpicia
would seem best thought to have been chosen under a consultation of
the Sibylline Oracles that were undertaken in the wake of Rome's
defeat at Lake Trasimene in 217 BCE, and that she may have therefore
partaken in the ceremonies dedicating the Capitoline Temple of Venus
Erycina.

Venus Erycina was Punic Astarte of Eryx in northwestern Sicily.
After the First Punic War it became a popular site among Roman
officers. As with the Phoenician Astarte, temple prostitution was
practiced at this Sicilian temple, with a special service performed
for Romans. A priestess would entertain a Roman general in the guise
of Dido, legendary Queen of Carthage, as he got to be her Aeneas for
a night. In 215 BCE She became the first foreign Goddess to have a
temple built within the pomerium, but it should be noted that Hers
was an entirely Roman cultus in Rome, and that excluded any temple
prostitution.

"The City has never officially emulated any of these foreign
practices, as have many cities in the past. But even though Rome has
introduced certain rites on the recommendation of oracles, she
celebrates them in accordance with her own traditions, discarding all
superstitious mumbo-jumbo." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Antiquities
2.19.3

The association of chastity in marriage with Venus Erycina goes back
to an earlier version of Venus, before the Greek influence of the
second century that introduced a voluptuous Aphrodite. Among the
Etruscans Venus was seen veiled in the manner of a bride, with Her
veil partially pulled across Her face and held between Her teeth. She
was the Venus who brought happiness into the home with children. Her
other aspect, as Murcia, tended the family garden of herbs and
flowers. The cultus for Aeneas entered Rome from Lanuvium during the
last quarter of the fourth century, by 304 BCE at the very least when
Rome built the heroon of Aeneas at Lanuvium, and thus about 40 years
before the outbreak of the First Punic War. Here then another aspect
of Venus first enters Rome, as Mother of Aeneas and thus of all
Latins. In Virgil's version of the Aeneid, the scene of Aeneas
spending a night with Dido is couched in the language of a
confarreatio, a patrician form of marriage ceremony that, for the
most part, was no longer in use by his time. The marriage was shown
in Virgil to result from an agreement between Venus, as mother of
Aeneas, and Juno, patron Goddess of Carthage (actually Tanit). Dido
becomes the spurned wife, one who immolates herself out of
faithfulness for Aeneas. It should also be remembered that in
traditional patrician marriages the bride was relatively young
compared to her husband and she was often placed under the dominance
of her mother-in-law. In these rather complex connections, the
cultus of Roman matrons for Venus Verticordia adopted Dido in the
sense of being the first worshipper of the cultus for Venus. It
would seem that with this cultus, Venus was called upon to make the
wives desirable and submissive to their husbands. Ovid connects a
special drink with the Capitoline Venus, made of crushed poppies in
milk sweetened with honey, not attested elsewhere. "When Venus was
first led to Her lusting husband, She drank this; She was a wife
thereafter (Fasti 1.151-54)." The cultus of Venus Verticordia on the
Capitoline Hill was in stark contrast to the cultus for Viriplaca on
the Palantine:

"But whenever some strife arose between husband and wife, they would
repair to the chapel of the Goddess Viriplaca, which is on the
Palatine Hill. There they would say in turn what they wanted to say
and go back in harmony, laying aside their contention. The Goddess
is said to have got this name from appeasing husbands. Venerable
indeed is She and to be worshipped, I think, with special, choice
offerings as the guardian of day-to-day domestic peace, rendering by
Her very appellation the honour due from women to the dignity of
husbands in the equal yoke of love." ~ Valerius Maximus 2.1.6


Today's thought, on marriage, is from C. Musonius Rufus:

"The husband and wife, he [Musonius] used to say, should come
together for the purpose of making a life in common and of
procreating children, and furthermore of regarding all things in
common between them, and nothing peculiar or private to one or the
other, not even their own bodies. The birth of a human being which
results from such a union is to be sure something marvelous, but it
is not yet enough for the relation of husband and wife, inasmuch as
quite apart from marriage it could result from any other sexual
union, just as in the case of animals. But in marriage there must be
above all perfect companionship and mutual love of husband and wife,
both in health and in sickness and under all conditions, since it was
with desire for this as well as for having children that both entered
upon marriage. Where, then, this love for each other is perfect and
the two share it completely, each striving to outdo the other in
devotion, the marriage is ideal and worthy of envy, for such a union
is beautiful. But where each looks only to his own interests and
neglects the other, or, what is worse, when one is so minded and
lives in the same house but fixes his attention elsewhere and is not
willing to pull together with his yoke-mate nor to agree, then the
union is doomed to disaster and though they live together, yet their
common interests fare badly; eventually they separate entirely or
they remain together and suffer what is worse than loneliness."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54786 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salve Gai Iuliane

Rome wasn't built in a day, so they say, and neither was my sacra
privita. Parts I inherited from my family, and then of course I have
been practicing a tradition longer than most here. So it has built up
over time, over generations, and over years of my own experiences.

Vale et vade in pace Concordiae
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, GAIVS IVLIANVS <ivlianvs309@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Marce! Mvltas gratias tibi ago!!! Your account
> is the most descriptive and impressive I've read yet!
> Your pietas and devotion to the Cvltvs Deorvm is most
> worthy!!! Vale! Frater et amicvs tvvs, Gaivs Ivlianvs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54787 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salva sis Valeria Messallina

Perhaps you could explain the finer points of the traditional way of
lighting a fire. I know the method of striking a blade on flint,
which I can't use inside the hortus Cereri because of the ban on iron
in Her ceremonies. Friction of wood on wood I've never tried. I
occasionally resort to a magnifying glass. And chemicals, well, for
showmanship, mixtures similar to blackpower, maybe with shavings of
aluminum mixed in for sparkle, or additional chemicals for color. But
using chemicals usually involves sulfur, which is fine for
purification rites and in rites for Di inferni, but not something
done usually. Most often what I do is take coals from a cooking fire
(without any special way of lighting it first) that I set on kindling
inside a molucum atop a square stone altar for Di celesti, or, if for
Di terrestri, in a round lebes on a tripod.

We've talked before about what woods are proper to use in a focus -
arbores felices and arbores infelices - and the shape of a focus
proper to which rites, and many other aspects of ritual. But I don't
think we ever discussed fire-making.

Vale et vade in pace Vestae
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina
<violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am very impressed by Piscinus, but then he is always impressive
in all he does.
> I have a lararium I built myself. It is in a separate room where
everyday I conduct all my morning and evening rites to Vesta. At
certain times of the year for special rituals, I have an outdoor
hearth where I can light a fire, which I do so in the traditional way
and that took some mastering, believe me!
>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of
Vesta."
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54788 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2008-01-19
Subject: About my new you tube account and the attraction of new citizens to
Salve et Salvete!

Fellow Citizens:

I, Lucius Fidelius Lusitanus, am coming with a communicate:

I was a youtube member with the username brunocantermi121, and today I created another one with the username LVCFIDLVSITANVS, which is a latinized abbreviated form of my roman name, to get new citizens to Nova Roma. then I proceeded to transfer all of my youtube subscriptions from my old account, and sending subscription invitations to my most close ones, and youtube friends. we all have one trait in common: we're fans of the cartoon Codename: Kids Next Door. and in the next days I'm going to tell them what I know about Nova Roma and covince them to join the community, and in a few days, Nova Roma will receive new citizens.

Vale et Valete,

LVCIVS FIDELIVS LVSITANVS SPD.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54789 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: a. d. XIII Kal. Feb.: Death of Clodius
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos ament:

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Februaras; haec dies comitialis est:

AUC 701 / 52 BCE: Death of Clodius

T. Annius Milo, candidate for consul for AUC 702, was returning with
his wife by carriage from Lanuvium, accompanied by a large retinue,
including some gladiators. Publius Clodius Pulcher was candidate for
praetor. He was returning on horseback from Aricia with about thirty
armed men. Both parties met on the Appian Way. The retinues of both
men began to fight, which led in the end to Milo slaying Clodius.
Upon hearing the news, disturbances broke out in Rome between
followers of both men. Tribunus Plebis Munatius Plancus displayed the
body of Clodius in the Forum on the Rostra and worked the crowd
against Milo. The populace carried the body of Clodius into the
nearby Senate house and made a pyre to cremate it. The result was
that the Senate House burned. In the aftermath Pompeius Magnus was
thus named sole consul to quell the disturbances. He created a
special tribunal and brought Milo to trial.

Publius Claudius Pulcher began his public life in 73 BCE by bringing
an accusation of incestum against L. Sergius Catalina and Vestal
Fabia. He came from a famed patrician family, nobilities. His
oldest brother Appius became consul and censor by the late 50's, and
his second brother Gaius, a praetor. However in 73 BCE Appius was a
lieutenant of Praetor P. Varenus when Spartacus defeated him (Livy,
Perioche 95.2). His three sisters, all by the same name, married
Q.Caecilius Metellus Celer, L. Licinius Lucullus, and Q. Marcius Rex,
each of who would become prominent in this time period. While
serving as a military tribune under his brother-in-law Lucullus,
Publius Claudius instigated a mutiny among the soldiers (Livy,
Perioche 94.1). He then transferred to the staff of the army
commanded by his other brother-in-law, Marcius Rex. In 59 BCE Publius
Claudius convinced the triumvirs that he could serve their interests,
and they conceded in allowing his adoption into a plebeian branch of
the gens Claudia. Thereby he became Publius Clodius Pulcher and
eligible to run for Tribunus Plebis. His sisters, in support of
their brother, also changed their names to Clodia. Behind that, with
the one Clodia, it was her husband Metellus who publicly opposed this
adoption.

In 58 BCE P. Clodius became the most prominent political figure in
Rome. He succeeded in once more making the Tribune a leading
legislative authority. Passage of the lex Clodia de capite civis
strengthened an earlier law by Gaius Gracchus on criminal justice,
making it a crime to execute a Roman citizen without trial. This law
has been seen as Clodius' effort to revenge himself on Cicero.
Cicero had acted as witness against Clodius in 62 BCE over the
incident where Clodius appeared at the women's rites for the Bona
Dea, held in the house of Pontifex Maximus Gaius Julius Caesar, the
Praetor designatus at the time (3 Dec. 63 BCE). In his year as
Consul Cicero had executed alleged followers of Catalina. Some saw
Clodius' law as directed against Cicero, who went into self-exile
rather than face trial. Clodius was also able to drive Cato from the
City. Rather than a tool of the triumvirs, Clodius set about
opposing Caesar's legislation and used the comitia to pick at the
arrangements Pompey had made in the East. At times he used his
political connections with the party of Caesar. Besides Caesar
himself, Consul Calpurnius Piso, Caesar's father-in-law and collector
of the works of Philodemus, supported Tribune Clodius. Gaius
Claudius, Clodius' brother, was a staff officer in Caesar's army, and
unlike his brothers, throughout the period he remained politicaly
allied with Caesar. In spite of having sent Cato away, Clodius won
the support of the Catonians in opposing Caesar and Pompey. Mostly
he tried to carve out his own following by posing himself as the true
champion of the People, rather than the triumvirs, as when he
proposed to erect a Temple to Libertatis on land taken from Cicero.
Another measure that he passed made the distribution of grain to the
poor free of charge, where before grain was always sold at a
competitively low price. One result of this grain measure was the
increased frequency of manumissions. Masters found it more
economical to free slaves, putting them on the State's grain rolls.
It increased the number of available voters who supported Clodius,
which came into play during his campaign for Praetor in 52 BCE.

Out of office in 57 BCE Clodius saw Pompey place checks on his street
gangs, and the return of Cicero, while Milo tried to prosecute him.
But Clodius was aided by his brother Appius Claudius, who was Praetor
that year, and by Consul Q. Metellus Nepos, who was Clodius' cousin
and the brother of Mucia, Pompey's estranged wife – Pompey having
taken Iulia instead. Also two Tribunes, Sex. Atilius Serranus and Q.
Numerius Rufus, strongly opposed the return of Cicero, while either
they or another tribune helped to oppose Milo from prosecuting
Clodius. Milo was himself a Tribune that year. When the trial was
halted, Pompey unleashed Milo who brought in his own gangs to rival
the Clodiani. The courts were suspended and other government
functions impeded. Clodius was running for the office of Aedilis for
56 BCE, when he would attain immunity, so an effort was again made to
prosecute him before year's end. In office again in 56 BCE the
tables had turned and it was Clodius and his allies prosecuting the
three Tribunes who opposed Clodius in 57 BCE. Milo, whose trial of
February was postponed after riots broke out and was never rejoined.
Sestius, who was defended by Cicero, Hortensius and Pompeians, won
acquittal. Cicero's defense was not enough, however, to win Cispius
an acquittal. Clodiani also unsuccessfully prosecuted Calpurnius
Bestia, an Aedilis in 57 and supporter of Cato. Meanwhile Milo made
his own accusations against Clodiani so that Clodius was kept busy in
the courts as well as in the streets.

And so things continued as Roman politics began to fragment more into
smaller parties. By 52 BCE T. Annius Milo was dictator of Lanuvium
and candidate for Consul of Rome. P. Clodius Pulcher was candidate
for Praetor. Their fateful encounter on the Via Appia ended both of
their careers, Clodius in death and Milo in exile. Milo did later
return only to be executed afterwards. Clodius proposed to revive a
measure by Manilius that would distribute the liberti into the rural
tribes as well as urban. The number of liberti, or freedmen, had
greatly increased as a result of Clodius' earlier grain measure.
Cicero, in defending Milo for Clodius' murder, claimed that Clodius
had created a new urban tribe on the Colline and was bringing in more
slaves from rural districts to be freed. (Pro Milo 24-25). Cicero
characterized Clodius' proposal as an attempt to "have made all our
slaves his own freedmen," and "to hand us over to the power of our
slaves (Pro Milo 87; 89)." The published defense of Milo was harsher
in tone and more rhetorical than Cicero was actually able to
deliver. The public trial was crowded with Clodiani and liberti who
heckled and laughed Cicero down from the podium. Cicero later
apologized to Milo for not offering a better defense, and thus wrote
what we have instead today. But Milo replied that Cicero had
actually done him a favor as he was enjoying the mullets of
Marseilles while in exile.


Our thoughts for today is some advice that Clodius and his brothers
could have taken from Cato's Monosticha:

Existimationem retine. (Safeguard your good reputation.)
Familiam cura. (Care for your family and its reputation.)
Ad praetorium stato. (Attend to your commanding officer.)
Foro para (Prepare for the Forum)
Saluta libenter. (Willingly greet others.)
Beneficii accepti esto memor. (Remember those from whom you receive
favors.)
Pati legem, quam ipse tuleris. (Abide by the rules you make
yourself.)
Nihil arbitrii virium feceris. (Do not abuse your power and
authority against anyone.)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54790 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: David Meadows explorator 10.39
Salvete

FYI

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


>From: david meadows <rogueclassicist@...>
>Reply-To: Explorator-owner@yahoogroups.com
>To: explorator@yahoogroups.com, British archaeology discussion list
><BRITARCH@...>
>Subject: [Explorator] explorator 10.39
>Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:45:46 -0500
>
>================================================================
>explorator 10.39 January 20, 2008
>================================================================
>Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
>hours from the time of publication.
>
>For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
>and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
>arrives otherwise!!!
>================================================================
>================================================================
>Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, David Critchley,
>Donna Hurst, 'Duke Jason', Edward Rockstein, Rick Heli, Inge Zankl,
>Hernan Astudillo, John McMahon, Joseph Lauer, 'Les', Mike Ruggeri,
>Richard C. Griffiths, Ross W. Sargent, Steve Rankin, Patrick
>Swan, Susan Mazur, Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, and W. Richard Frahm,
>for headses upses this week (as always hoping I have left no one out).
>================================================================
>ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
>================================================================
>An Old Kingdom 'middle class' tomb:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080118-egypt-tomb.html
>http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=14566
>http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99324
>
>A Hemiriate Dynasty 'queen's' tomb from Yemen:
>
>http://www.yobserver.com/front-page/10013577.html
>
>Brief item on the discovery of a bronze coffin:
>
>http://www.sabanews.net/en/news145011.htm
>
>... and its destruction:
>
>http://www.sabanews.net/en/news145241.htm
>
>Some Achaemenid city remains from Iran:
>
>http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=39054§ionid=351020105
>
>Recent finds from Catal Huyuk:
>
>http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=93856
>
>Hyping the National Geographic's 'Black Pharoahs' issue:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2k4h8w (NYDN)
>
>A First Temple seal from Jerusalem:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/356rbv (JPost)
>http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/139914
>
>The Talpiot Tomb was back in the news, most notably on why it
>was kept 'secret' for so long:
>
>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/945442.html
>http://tinyurl.com/2vemjr (JPost)
>
>... it was part of a conference on the subject:
>
>http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1704299,00.html
>http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080118/30896.htm
>
>... and there was a very self-serving press release by JC and
>SJ claiming their views have been 'vindicated':
>
>http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=811301
>http://tinyurl.com/36gusw (Streetinsider)
>
>cf: Jim West's comments:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2q4zej
>
>... and:
>
>http://www.uhl.ac/blog/?p=393
>
>Meanwhile, it is unlikely that approval will be given to
>renew the dig:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2ub53w (JPost)
>
>The Tomb of Cyrus is threatened:
>
>http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124898
>
>... or maybe not:
>
>http://www.cais-soas.com/news/2006/September2006/02-09.htm
>
>Nice feature on the Nabateans:
>
>http://journal3.ifrance.com/spip.php?article229
>
>David Plotz visited some Biblical sites (it's a series):
>
>http://www.slate.com/id/2181864/entry/2181865/
>http://www.slate.com/id/2181864/entry/2181915/
>http://www.slate.com/id/2181864/entry/2181916/
>http://www.slate.com/id/2181864/entry/2181917/
>http://www.slate.com/id/2181864/entry/2181918/
>
>A bit of clarification on Egypt's copyright efforts:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080115-egypt-copyright.html
>
>A somewhat late item from the IAA on that Queen Helena house find:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2trogh
>
>Latest on Temple Mount:
>
>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=945297
>
>More coverage of recent finds at Karnak:
>
>http://www.andhranews.net/Intl/2008/January/17/Excavations-Karnak-29922.asp
>
>Egyptology News Blog:
>
>http://egyptology.blogspot.com/
>
>Egyptology Blog:
>
>http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/
>
>Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:
>
>http://blog.ritmeyer.com/
>
>Paleojudaica:
>
>http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/
>
>Persepolis Fortification Archives:
>
>http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/
>
>Archaeologist at Large:
>
>http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
>================================================================
>ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
>================================================================
>A Roman bridge on the Tyne has been reconstructed:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/ytmo7g (Journal)
>
>Nice feature on Vindolanda:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2e9qvh (Daily Mail)
>
>... and one on the Nabateans:
>
>http://journal3.ifrance.com/spip.php?article229
>
>Dr King and Greek lit:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/359xjf (WTimes)
>
>Scandal in the Greek Culture Ministry:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/arts/design/19loot.html
>
>Princeton has acquired a Greek coin collection:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/34cojl
>
>Latin's doing fine in Monmouth:
>
>http://www.reviewatlas.com/articles/2008/01/16/news/news2.txt
>
>Recent reviews from BMCR:
>
>http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/recent.html
>
>Recent reviews from Scholia:
>
>http://www.classics.und.ac.za/reviews/2007.htm
>
>Visit our blog:
>
>http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism
>
>Blegen Library News:
>
>http://blegen.blogspot.com/
>
>Mediterranean Archaeology:
>
>http://medarch.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
>================================================================
>Latest finds found during construction of that highway near
>Tara:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080114-tara-ireland.html
>http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99630
>
>Bronze Age finds at Cambridge:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/7194650.stm
>http://tinyurl.com/2smdjv (EADT)
>
>Predictions of medieval sites at a 'regeneration project' in
>Preston:
>
>http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Tithebarn-could-yield-medieval-treasures.3687861.jp
>
>Brief item on the find of a 2000 b.p. ring from Norway:
>
>http://www.norwaypost.no/cgi-bin/norwaypost/imaker?id=115816
>
>A 16th century Welsh chronicle is now online:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/mid_/7189408.stm
>
>Interesting items found in the apartment of a dead collector in
>Prague:
>
>http://www.radio.cz/en/article/99630
>
>Plans are afoot to examine "Britain's Atlantis":
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7187239.stm
>http://tinyurl.com/3xh9sq
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080116165058.htm
>
>Archaeology in Europe Blog:
>
>http://www.archaeology.eu.com/weblog/index.html
>================================================================
>ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
>================================================================
>Very interesting 2500 b.p. sword find from Jiangxi (looks kind
>of small for a sword?):
>
>http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-01/16/content_6399567.htm
>http://en.ce.cn/National/culture/200801/17/t20080117_14264929.shtml
>http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/6339547.html
>
>I think we mentioned these brick-lined tombs from Chongqing a
>while ago:
>
>http://www.cctv.com/program/cultureexpress/20080115/101246.shtml
>
>This time, the clumsy archaeologists have found a Buddhist
>monastery:
>
>http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=12739
>http://www.calcuttanews.net/story/318178
>
>... while at another temple site, some 'shell script' inscriptions
>have been found:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2yfue5 (TIndia)
>http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Jan152008/scroll2008011546765.asp
>
>A brick structure from Bogra:
>
>http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=19882
>
>New Zealand Archaeology eNews:
>
>http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
>================================================================
>NORTH AMERICA
>================================================================
>Latest on those bones found during LRT construction in
>Edmonton:
>
>http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/Commentary/2008/01/17/4777869.html
>http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id26037
>
>They're digging at Lincoln's boyhood home:
>
>http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/13891772.html
>
>The early New World was a wetland:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2wjxdh (New Scientist)
>
>A King Island mask has been returned:
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080118/ap_on_re_us/ghost_village_mask
>
>The Shoshone are trying to acquire an historically-significant
>graveyard:
>
>http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_7965320
>
>Remodelling a church with an interesting history:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/13churchwe.html
>
>More coverage of Native Americans' efforts to recover human
>remains from Berkeley:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/32tv4e (Globe)
>
>Review of a couple of books focussing on the carnage and the
>results therefrom of the Civil War:
>
>http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/01/21/080121crbo_books_gopnik
>
>================================================================
>CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
>================================================================
>A Mexican time capsule:
>
>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-SalgXrLK4v5rMnStHSiZuBFfwAD8U6L4I00
>
>More coverage that agriculture was being practiced in Peru
>earlier than previously thought:
>
>http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=14151
>http://discovermagazine.com/2008/jan/andean-crops-cultivated-almost-10-000-years-ago
>
>More coverage of that 'lost city' found in Peru:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080116-lost-city.html
>http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=13642
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080116-paititi-video-ap.html
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5019419649355201755
>
>More coverage of that 4000 b.p. temple from Peru:
>
>http://www.mnweekly.ru/world/20071115/55289911.html
>================================================================
>OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
>================================================================
>Nice editorial on what the 'archaeological top ten lists' left
>out:
>
>http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/science/stories/2008/01/15/sci_archaeology.html
>
>Columbus is 'credited' with bringing syphilis to Europe:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7183540.stm
>http://tinyurl.com/2jwmdr (AFP via Yahoo)
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080115/od_nm/columbus_dc
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/columbuscarriedsyphilisfromnewworldtoeuropestudysuggests
>http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/15/america/columbus.php
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15syph.html
>http://www.plosntds.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pntd.0000148
>
>William Caraher has put together a nice online feature for
>Archaeology Magazine on archaeological blogs:
>
>http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/blogs/
>
>A very strange DaVinci codish thing involving the Koran:
>
>http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html
>
>The 'brutal reality' of the tournament:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7192262.stm
>
>Latest on the identity of the Mona Lisa:
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080114/ts_nm/germany_mona_lisa_dc
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/arts/16arts-MONAREALLYWA_BRF.html
>
>Book scavenging:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/nyregion/18bigcity.html
>
>Nice overviewish thing on the popularity of dna/genealogy
>stuff:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13wwln-medium-t.html
>
>Do fortune cookies really come from Japan?:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/dining/16fort.html
>
>Arguing about Beethoven:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/arts/music/20whit.html
>
>On the perils of popularization:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/books/review/Gee-t.html
>
>In light of the primaries, an interesting item on equal rights
>and civil rights:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/weekinreview/13leibovich.html
>
>Pope Benedict cancelled a visit to LaSapienza due to protests
>with an historical basis:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/world/europe/16pope.html
>
>Review of Jack Repcheck, *Copernicus' Secret*:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/books/review/Gingerich-t.html
>
>Review of Bill Hayes, *The Anatomist*:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/books/review/Max-t.html
>
>Review of Andrew Nicholson (ed.), *The Letters of John Murray
>to Lord Byron*:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3x2lz7 (Times)
>
>Review of George Mankari, *Revolution in Mind*:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/books/review/Prochnik-t.html
>
>Review of Geraldine Brooks, *People of the Book*:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/books/review/Fugard-t.html
>
>Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Lives of the Week:
>
>http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/
>
>Arts and Letters Daily:
>
>http://aldaily.com/
>
>Past Preservers:
>
>http://pastpreservers.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>TOURISTY THINGS
>================================================================
>Athens:
>
>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2004120061_webathens14.html
>
>Review of assorted Baedeker Guides:
>
>http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/article3159576.ece
>================================================================
>GENERAL MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
>================================================================
>About.com Archaeology:
>
>http://archaeology.about.com/
>
>Archaeoblog:
>
>http://archaeoblog.blogspot.com/
>
>Archaeology Briefs:
>
>http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>CRIME BEAT
>================================================================
>Italy feels it has the upper hand in combatting the antiquities
>trade:
>
>http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo.php?id=17154&sez=HOME_SPETTACOLO
>
>A purloined bust of Marcus Aurelius has been returned to Algeria:
>
>http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=4&Article_id=88115
>http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hVLIB3USJkQsKqEExRQIvjZuizbA
>http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/culture/?id=23911
>http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/080115washington.htm
>
>... as has a Chinese pagoda:
>
>http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/90874/6340684.html
>
>Shelby White has returned some looted items to Italy:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/arts/18collect.html
>http://tinyurl.com/38xd8j
>
>Recovery of some pages from a manuscript of Isidore of Seville:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2s3wd5 (El Pais)
>
>Italy still wants the Getty Bronze:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2phpsz (ANSA)
>
>This 'World Collections Programme' looks interesting:
>
>http://media.netpr.pl/notatka_91939.html
>
>Looting Matters:
>
>http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>NUMISMATICA
>================================================================
>Bruce Brace Coin Collection:
>
>http://arendt.mcmaster.ca/~coins/index.php
>
>Ancient Coin Collecting:
>
>http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/
>
>Ancient Coins:
>
>http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
>================================================================
>Pompeii Red:
>
>http://www.abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=4032611&page=1
>
>Subsaharan Terracottas:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3cj89x (El Pais)
>
>The Aesthetic Movement:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/arts/design/18anti.html
>
>Chinese antiquities at the Royal Ontario Museum may have been
>illegally acquired:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3cx58n (Globe and Mail)
>
>The Euphronios Krater is back in Rome:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/arts/design/19bowl.html
>http://www.decanter.com/news/174012.html
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080118/lf_nm_life/italy_art_krater_dc_2
>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/19/2142137.htm
>
>... and the Met will be getting some nice loans in return:
>
>http://www.designtaxi.com/news.jsp?id=14804&monthview=0&month=1&year=2008
>
>A major exhibition focussing on Hadrian is in the works:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/26rwjd (Times)
>http://tinyurl.com/39snqq
>http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/latest-news/Hadrians-bronze-comes-north.3679348.jp
>
>The Louvre is lending some oenochoe to Singapore:
>
>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=avQUAqulUqdw&refer=home
>
>They're talking about moving Michelangelo's David:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/348dxn (ANSA)
>http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3345178.ece
>
>A couple of antique shows in New York:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/arts/design/18armo.html
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/arts/design/18pavi.html
>
>On Montebello's legacy:
>
>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=auikLCXvzcyw&refer=muse
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/weekinreview/13donadio.html
>
>How not to run a museum:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/arts/design/19arts-BRAZILIANMUS_BRF.html
>
>I think this is a repeat of the latest word from the BM on
>not returning the Elgin Marbles:
>
>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/18/2121370.htm
>================================================================
>PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
>================================================================
>Maria:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/arts/music/06gure.html
>
>New Jerusalem:
>
>http://theater2.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/theater/reviews/14new.html
>
>BBC Jane Austen:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/arts/television/19bell.html
>
>Some Shakespeareana:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/theater/20ishe.html
>================================================================
>ON THE WEB
>================================================================
>Not sure whether I've mentioned this military history forum
>yet:
>
>http://feldpost.tv/forum/
>
>Museum of Underwater Archaeology:
>
>http://www.uri.edu/mua/
>
>The Dig:
>
>http://www.thedigradio.com/
>================================================================
>OBITUARIES
>================================================================
>Wilhelmina Jashemski (Pompeii historian):
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2s5kuu (WPost)
>
>Bernhard W. Anderson:
>
>http://sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?articleId=746
>================================================================
>PODCASTS
>================================================================
>
>The Book and the Spade:
>
>http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm
>
>Stone Pages Archaeology News:
>
>http://news.stonepages.com/
>
>Archaeologica Audio News:
>
>http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp
>================================================================
>EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
>the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
>on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
>ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
>to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
>game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
>charge!
>================================================================
>Useful Addresses
>================================================================
>Past issues of Explorator are available on the web via our
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>
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>
>To subscribe to Explorator, send a blank email message to:
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>
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>
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>================================================================
>Explorator is Copyright (c) 2008 David Meadows. Feel free to
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>================================================================
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54791 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
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Links to external websites or files which contain material that might reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.



Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those beliefs, is off limits.



This edict takes effect immediately.



Given under our hands this 20th day of January 2761 from the founding of Roma



M. Curiatius Complutensis

M.Iulius Severus



Praetores Novae Romae


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54792 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Aquila - NR's Newsletter
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I'm soliciting material for the Aquila, Nova Roma's newsletter. I'll
be doing a print format of the newsletter (in PDF format), but I need
material. If anyone would like to submit something please e-mail it
to me directly:

tau.athanasios@...

If you have any questions please contact me.

Valete:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
Editor Commentariorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54793 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Re: Roman Mutli-Function Tool(i.e. Roman Swiss Army knife)
Salvete omnes,
I had a look at the link and was fascinated by the photos of the
original multi-tools. Pity that there was no reference to their
estimated age.
Any clues as to what the various tools were used for? For example, I
had read that the use of forks for eating was first introduced in the
XII century a. d., but what else could those forks have been used for?
The drop-shaped blade with a hole in the middle to me looks very
similar to traditional (modern) instruments for sewing leather, but I
suspect it might have been a nail-clipper, while the instrument
defined as "punch", looks like a nailfile, but these are just my wild
conjectures.

As to the reproduction, I don't like the fact that they used brass:
probably with a product that requires such complicated workmanship it
wouldn't have been much more expensive if they made it in silver, like
the originals. And why use copper (quite softer than brass or bronze)
for the rivets, which are the part subjected to the most stress?

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Collins" <walhallan@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I just got an e-mail from this company and they are selling a Roman
> "Swiss Army multifunction like tool". I think I might end up buying
> one. Here is the page on the tool to look at:
>
> http://www.mambri.com/cosasArmillum/Cuchillo-Multiusos.html
>
> And here is their main page:
>
> http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?main_page=index&language=en
>
> Vale,
> Quintus Servilius Priscus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54794 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Historical snapshot; of Nova Roma
Avete Omnes;

If anyone is interested, here's a link to the master index of the Nova
Roma website from November, 1998.

http://tinyurl.com/ypw2qt

It looks like many of the links will take you to page copies cached at
the Internet Archive site.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis - Poet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54795 From: Andreas Lachmann Date: 2008-01-20
Subject: Re: A question about the Arminii
Salve Germanice,
Thanks for your interesting reply.Neptune would be a good god for me to embrace I guess;since he treated me well while I was in the Navy.
Also I like the idea of the mosaic.I have to figure out whether I'm crafty enough to include something like that in my set up here.
Vale,D.Arm.Brvtvs

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: bhsegura@...
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:45:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A question about the Arminii




















Salvete,

My Family

Hercules Diana and Neptune.

As you might have guessed, we hunt and fish.

Neptune is rather new to the family. We put in a pond with Koi and goldfish with a small but nice underwater mosaic of the god Neptune. It surrounds the shrine to Diana.



T.Arm. Germanicus



Andreas Lachmann <pagermanicvs@...> wrote:



Salvete,

I wonder.Do the Arminii have a special bond to any particular god ?

Maybe a fellow member of our gens can help me with this one.

Valete,D.Arm.Brvtvs



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54796 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Ex officio praetorum:
>

[SNIP]

>
> Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis
for those beliefs, is off limits.
>
>

Salvete!

I just want to check. Does the sentence above mean the same as the one
below?

"Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and insulting the
historical basis for those beliefs, are off limits".

This would mean that this is OK:

"There is no real evidence that the Great Pumpkin ever existed".

But this would not be OK:

"All reports of sightings of the Great Pumpkin are nothing but the
back-room fabrications of later age vegetarian fanatics."

Before any Pumpkinists complain, I will disclose that I am a
vegetarian and I often have great pumpkin for dinner.

Many thanks and optime valete in cura deorum!

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54797 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetoribus sal.

Permit me a few observations on your edict.

Under II, while you distinguish the "politics" of Roma Antiqua as a
topic in reference to permitted discussion, you make no mention of
politics in respect of Nova Roma. Politics are not necessarily state
activities, for "state" implies sponsored by the state. Rather than
make a distinction between NR and Roma Antiqua it would have been
better to roll it all into one, or if not make sure that one
paragraph was a mirror image of the other. As it stands having
distinguished "politics" in one section but not the other this leaves
provision for arguments over what NR political discussion, if any,
are permitted under your edict.

Section III is a collection of wish-washy sentiments that don't come
with any definition to assist the average citizen. How do we know
when we are in danger of breaching this edict if your language is so
vague?

Some examples:

"attacking people" - When does pointed and legitimate criticism
entirely within the scope of the constitution become "attacking
people"? When you deem it so? Unacceptable. We aren't mind readers
and if you issue an edict with penalties attached, such as
moderation, you better have made certain that citizens have the
necessary information to judge whether their posts are likely to
cross the line. The more extreme cases are easy to predict, but this
phrase is too vague for other cases.

"Use helpful, not hurtful language" Define helpful and hurtful. Vague
and wooly. This means nothing as it stands.

"Write as you would like to be written to." So if I don't care how
people address me in the forum its ok for me to address them in that
way? Something tells me that wasn't what you had in mind, but as it
stands I am entitled to do this. Ah, but if I do this and attack
people which section takes precedence?

"Write in good faith" What on earth does this mean??? How do you
propose to determine whether someone has or hasn't complied? This is
a fatuous, specious phrase.

"Treat what others have to say as written in good faith" Does this
mean if we have evidence that someone is lying we have to still
assume they are writing "in good faith"?

"Respectfully read and consider differing points of view"
"When unsure, clarify what you think you have read"
"Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have
written may be different"
"Recognize that people can agree to disagree"
"Speak and write for yourself, not others"

Again how do propose to ensure we have complied with these
admonishments? Vulcan mind-meld?

This entire section is littered with irrelevancies best suited as a
guide, not a section within a legally enforceable section of an edict
(with penalties attached). You are potentially setting yourself up
for lots of arguments if you try to enforce this as to whether your
edict actually breaches the spirit of the constitution, and/or,
whether your edict actually makes any sense in this section (and
others). Which one of these parts of III has precedence should a
conflict arise?

Edicts should be precise legal documents, not a jumble of thoughts,
hopes and guidelines. As Praetors of Nova Roma you should be setting
the standard for clarity and precision, which is not reflected in
this mish-mash of a document.

Lastly, and most importantly, this edict is an outright attack on the
noble traditions of Republican freedom of expression and its "nanny
state" odour better advertises the restrictions on free, forthright
and Roman speech present during the Imperial periods.

As I have undoubtedly fallen foul of one of these vague sections, I
claim immunity under the terms of the constitution, which trumps your
edict, and Section III of your edict, writing as I want to be written
to, and, writing in good faith.

Vale.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Ex officio praetorum:
>
> The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.
> Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54798 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: a. d. XII Kal. Feb.: Ludi Palatini
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos ament

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
est: ludi Palatini

AUC 787 / 14 CE: Ludi Augustales (Palatini)

Upon the death of Augustus, his wife Livia and her son Tiberius vowed
funerary games. A private theater was set up in front of the palace
on the Palatine and for three days theatrical performances were
provided for invited guests alone. Only the highest members of the
Augustan regime, and their families, were invited. (Dio Cassius
56.46; 59.16; Tacitus, Annales 1.73, refers to them). At the death
of Caligua a fourth day (24 Jan.) was added in that year alone. (To
celebrate his demise?) Later, in the Calendar of Philocalus that
dates from 354 CE, the Ludi Palatini, as they were called, are shown
as falling on 17 –19 January.

The original Ludi Augustales were performed in conjunction with the
sacrifices offered on 17 Jan. to Augustus on the ara Numinus Augusti
by members of the Quattor Summa Collegia. That is, the pontifices,
augures, quindecemviri sacris faciundis, and septemviri epulones.
Plinius mentions a special offering made to Augustus by his wife
Iulia Augusta (Livia):

"I, myself, once saw in the temple of the Palatium, which his wife
Augusta (Livia) dedicated to her husband the late emperor Augustus, a
root of cinnamon of great weight, placed in a patera of gold: from it
drops used to distil every year, which congealed in hard grains. It
remained there until the temple was accidentally destroyed by fire."
~ Plinius Secunda, Historia Naturalis 12.42


AUC 816 / 63 CE: Birth of Claudia, daughter of Nero.

AUC 422 / 331 BCE: Patrician poisonings

"This year gained an evil notoriety, either through the unhealthy
weather or through human guilt. I would gladly believe-and the
authorities are not unanimous on the point-that it is a false story
which states that those whose deaths made the year notorious for
pestilence were really carried off by poison. I shall, however,
relate the matter as it has been handed down to avoid any appearance
of impugning the credit of our authorities. The foremost men in the
State were being attacked by the same malady, and in almost every
case with the same fatal results. A maid-servant went to Q. Fabius
Maximus, one of the curule aediles, and promised to reveal the cause
of the public mischief if the government would guarantee her against
any danger in which her discovery might involve her. Fabius at once
brought the matter to the notice of the consuls and they referred it
to the senate, who authorised the promise of immunity to be given.
She then disclosed the fact that the State was suffering through the
crimes of certain women; those poisons were concocted by Roman
matrons, and if they would follow her at once she promised that they
should catch the poisoners in the act. They followed their informant
and actually found some women compounding poisonous drugs and some
poisons already made up. These latter were brought into the Forum,
and as many as twenty matrons, at whose houses they had been seized,
were brought up by the magistrates' officers. Two of them, Cornelia
and Sergia, both members of patrician houses, contended that the
drugs were medicinal preparations. The maid-servant, when confronted
with them, told them to drink some that they might prove she had
given false evidence. They were allowed time to consult as to what
they would do, and the bystanders were ordered to retire that they
might take counsel with the other matrons. They all consented to
drink the drugs, and after doing so fell victims to their own
criminal designs. Their attendants were instantly arrested, and
denounced a large number of matrons as being guilty of the same
offence, out of whom a hundred and seventy were found guilty. Up to
that time there had never been a charge of poison investigated in
Rome. The whole incident was regarded as a portent, and thought to be
an act of madness rather than deliberate wickedness. In consequence
of the universal alarm created, it was decided to follow the
precedent recorded in the annals. During the secessions of the plebs
in the old days a nail had been driven in by the Dictator, and by
this act of expiation men's minds, disordered by civil strife, had
been restored to sanity. A resolution was passed accordingly, that a
Dictator should be appointed to drive in the nail. Cnaeus Quinctilius
was appointed and named L. Valerius as his Master of the Horse. After
the nail was driven in they resigned office." ~ Titus Livius 8.18

Livy does not mention this ceremony of the hammering of the nail
elsewhere in connection with the plebeian secessions. Instead, at
7.3, he mentioned how Marcus Horatius performed it at the beginning
of the Republic, and how it was then reintroduced in 363 BCE in
response to a plague.


The thought of the day is from Seneca, On Providence 5:

"Immortal gods," he said, "I have this one complaint to make against
you, that you did not earlier make known your will to me; for I
should have reached the sooner that condition in which, after being
summoned, I now am. Do you wish to take my children? - it was for you
that I fathered them. Do you wish to take some member of my body? -
take it; no great thing am I offering you; very soon I shall leave
the whole. Do you wish to take my life? - why not? I shall make no
protest against your taking back what once you gave. With my free
consent you shall have whatever you may ask of me. What, then, is my
trouble? I should have preferred to offer than to relinquish. What
was the need to take by force? You might have had it as a gift. Yet
even now you will not take it by force, because nothing can be
wrenched away from a man unless he withholds it."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54799 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Salve Gnae Iuli

Where were you before when we could have used you to question last
year's praetores on moderation?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> <snipped>

> "Use helpful, not hurtful language" Define helpful and hurtful.
Vague
> and wooly. This means nothing as it stands.
>

Wooly? "Oh, women, they do get wooly..." OK, I've hear it in Bull
Durham but could you define wooly for me, hmmm?

Most of this edictum praetoralis is nothing more than than the
guidelines that past praetores have used. Now you wrote in response:

"Write as you would like to be written to." So if I don't care how
people address me in the forum its ok for me to address them in that
way? Something tells me that wasn't what you had in mind, but as it
stands I am entitled to do this. Ah, but if I do this and attack
people which section takes precedence?


Have you never heard of the GOLDEN RULE?

"This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you
pain if done to you." ~ Mahabharata 5:1517

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man." ~ Talmud, Shabbat
31a

"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another
whatsoever is not good for itself." Dadistan-i-dink 94:5

"Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." ~
Udana-Varga 5:18

"As ye would have others do unto you, do ye even so to them." ~
Matthew 7:12

Or is it as e.e. cummings had to say:

plato told

him: he couldn't
believe it (jesus

told him; he
wouldn't believe
it) lao

tze
certainly told
him, and general
(yes

mam)
sherman;
and even
(believe it
or

not) you
told him: i told
him; we told him
(he didn't believe it, no

sir) it tool
a nipponized bit of
the old sixth

avenue
el; in the top of his head: to tell

him


Or, maybe, I should add, in the words of Johnny Cash... "I hear that
train a comin'; it's comin' 'round the bend..."


Vale optime
Piscinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54800 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Caesar Piscino sal.

I was scribe to one of last year's praetores. I gave the same advice
then. Precision, accuracy and relevancy.

Wooly - I'd attach a definition of fluffy to that :)

Vale bene

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Gnae Iuli
>
> Where were you before when we could have used you to question last
> year's praetores on moderation?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54801 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Severus Caesar omnibusque sal.

Thanks for your observations, Cn. Iulius Caesar. We know that it's impossibole to satisfy everybody's expectations, or points of view.
We will issue new edicts, if necessary, to clarify what really needs to be clarified, but otherwise we won't act according to a single citizen's opinions.
We know very well our duties and we are trying to fulfill them at the best or our capacities.
We don't intend to start a legal discussion here. Laws and edicts are necessarily general. Some people would think they are "vague".
What you call irrelevancies, seem quite relevant to us. We won't issue any kind of behavior guide, because this will amount to insult the intelligence of the Nova Romans.
Edicts should be "precise" legal documents? Says who? And what kind of precision do you have in mind? The same that any other citizen could think of, or what? Fundamentalism won't serve our Res publica. Ever.
You have all the rights to claim immunity. Suit yourself.

Vale et valete optime,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54802 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Severus Agricolae omnibusque sal.

Yes, M. Lucretius Agricola, the sentence above in your message means the same as the one below. That's clever!
We would hope that everybody will post on our Forum in good faith, and under Concordia's guidance... But we are not "thought policemen" of any sort.
So, if someone writes about the Great Pumkin as in your first example, we will think that such person is acting in good faith, and without any intention to offend or attack a fellow Nova Roman.
If not, we will know what to do.
You are very welcome and optime valete in cure deoreum!


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54803 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
M. Hortensia Maior quiritibus spd;
ask: is it Roman?
vale
Maior
producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
read these wiki articles:

Lar
Penates
Liber
Magna Mater
Cultus Apollonis
Sol
Fortuna
online temple to: Fortuna.
Saturnalia
Reading list for the cultus deorum
Roman laws
Venus
Egeria
Children (Nova Roma)
Epicurus, Epicureans
Reading list for philosophy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54804 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Book Report -- "Peter Connolly, "Greece and Rome At War,"
Subject: Book Report --

Peter Connolly, "Greece and
Rome At War," Stackpole
Books,
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania,
1998 -- ISBN
1-85367-303-X

This six chapter book covers
a period of twelve centuries
in Military
History and Development of
the armour, organization,
weapons, and
tactics of the period. The
illustrations are in color
throughout, and
include maps, diagrams and
photographs of the
topography over which
classical battles were
fought.

The book is an excellent
reference to the military
aspects of the
named civilizations, but it
is also an excellent read
for those who
have an interest in
classical military
development.

The six Chapters are by name:

--Greece and Macedonia; The
City States 800-360 B.C.

--Macedon 360-140 B.C.

--Italy and The Western
Mediterranean:
The Rise of Rome, 800-275
B.C.

--Rome 275-140 B.C.

--The Roman Empire:
The Empire 140 B.C. to A.D.
200

--The Later Empire, A.D. 200
to 450

The three rather extensive
Appendices are:

Appendix 1 War At Sea;

Appendix 2 Fortifications
and Siege Warfare;

Appendix 3 Roman Military
Costume

There is also an extensive
Bibliography for further
reading and
research.

I value this book highly and
it has a place close by my
work station
for a constant reference.

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54805 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Roman Times Quarterly," 4th Qtr., 2007
Ladies and Gentlemen of Nova Roma;

Following this message will be a series of articles which will be the content for the subject publication. I have for a variety of reasons decided to experiment further with sending the articles separately, rather than combine them in a newsletter. The articles, of course, can be copied off the internet, or if you wish I can put them together in a hard copy handout with a masthead. The cost for something like that would be the cost of producing it, together with the postage which would be approximately $00.41 for every two pages postage and $00.05 per page printing.

If anyone is interested in a package like that, please contact me off-net, and I will be pleased to quote you a price. If any Governor wishes to get such a copy to reproduce for his / her Provincia the same offer is made, and you have my permission for reproduction.

The five articles making up the "Roman Times Quarterly" presently coming to you will be:

--Book Report;
--Flavour Salt;
--Town Life;
--Roman Theatre;
--Mines and Quarries.

The "Pilum Quarterly" will follow in a day or two, as I can make the arrangements to get the material out to you.

Thank you for your kind attention to this message.

Very Respectfully

Marcus Audens
Senior Editor, NR



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54806 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Fwd: FW: Flavour - Salt
Subject: Flavour - Salt

By our standards, the
Romans consumed a great
deal of salt, partly
because food was
preserved in it. In
addition to this, or
perhaps because
of it? the Romans loved
salty food. Apicious
cooks "Suckling Pig a'la
Trajan" in a pot with
it's own weight of salt.

If we measure salt
consumption by the
amount that Cato gave
his slaves
(16 pints per year), it
amounts to about 20
grams a day, or more if
the Salt
crystals were finer
than course sea salt.
It seems unlikely that
a slave
would have eaten that
amount. Perhaps slaves
were allowed to
exchange or
sell part of it. Salt
probably served as a
kind of pocket-money.
Originally Magis?trates
were paid in salt
(sal") in Latin, hence
the
English word "salary."



Salt had always been
considered sacred. The
master of the house kept
it in a silver salt-pot
("salinum"), which he
used to banish the
spirits
that spoilt food or
caused it to rot. The
exor?cism appeared to
work for
salt indeed prevented
decay. For that reason
everything offered to
the gods
had first to be strewn
with salt. The Romans
mixed spelt flour with
salt to
make ?mola salsa? and
all sacrificial animals
were dusted with this
mixture
before slaughter.
Simple offer?ings might
consist of bread or
cake, but
salt always had to be
present.



Reference:--

--Patrick Fass, "Around
The Roman Table; Food
and Feasting In Ancient
Rome," The University
of Chicago Press,
Chicago and London, 1994
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54807 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Town-Life-1
1----Town Life----

The discussion of town life in Roman Britain is an interesting one,
since here perhaps we can touch on a point of Roman Statecraft.
Previously we see in the conquest an Romanization of Gaul the natives
of the area were not permitted to live in the old familiar ways and
places. In order to break the old ties of national traditions and pre-
Roman ideas of "freedom," these people were moved from their hill-town
into nearby lowlands. They were not permitted to hold the high
places, or the hill-towns where in case
of rebellion against the Roman rule they could take refuge, and
maintain an effective resistance to the Roman military machine.

In the case of Gaul there is significant evidence in this. For
instance a native Gaulish town by the name of ?oppidum? found on the
Mount Beuvray of previous mention, was dismantled by the Romans, and in
approximately 5 B.C. the inhabitants were moved to previously
unoccupied piece of land alongside the Arroux River.(1) and so, as in
ancient Gaul, we may surmise that the natives of Britain were moved
out of their former places of dwelling, such as the ?hills? which
overlook Winchester, the Wrekin close to Worcester, Maiden Castle
near Dorchester in Dorset, Sinodan Hill which overhangs the
Oxfordshire Dorchester, and Bigbury near
Canterbury. Since the excavation of British towns have been very
scarce and since any records bearing on that subject to be scanty at
best, this speculation will have to rely upon such determinations as
we presently possess. It can be therefore be postulated with the
significant evidence available and likelihood previously mentioned to
believe what was required in Gaul under the Roman domination was also
applied in Roman Britain.

It would appear that perhaps British town-life was given a tremendous
boost by the Romanization tof the populace and the specific
determination of town planning which was a large part of the
Romanization process. To this idea we may link the Emperor Claudius
who had some interest in the great western island in which he had
begun the Roman conquest. Two of the five
municipalities (Municipia) of Britain were resultant from his
involvement, the municipality of Verulamium, known in the modern day
as St. Albans, and the colony (colonia) at Colchester.(2)

However in the Flavian age following Nero it seems that much was done
under Vespasian and his sons. After this beginning town-life began by
diffusion to spread throughout the empire. In the known British town-
sites of such as Colchester and Wroxeter, most of the datable
artifacts are overwhelmingly from Flavian period. We may surmise from
this information that there was a major thrust toward the growth of
town-life during and after the Flavian period. Prior to this town-
life was of small consideration but by the end of the first century A.
D. it was well established.

Definitions:--

--Colonia>>

Settlements or colonies established by the stateto form a
self-administering community, often with a strategic defensive
function. Most colonies were founded but sometimes they were
established on land belonging to a "municipium" -- an existing town
incorporated into the Roman state, whose inhabitants might or might
not be Roman citizens.*

--"Municipia">>

During the republic the title ?municipia? was given in Italian towns,
the inhabitants of which had been granted Roman citizenship without
voting rights. These towns had a certain amount of independence, but
foreign affairs came under the control of Roman magistrates . Those
that received this status were sometimes allied towns or were in
conquered territory. After voting rights were conferred on all
Italian communities in the early 1st century B.C., citizens
of "municipia" became full Roman citizens. As the empire expanded the
status of municipium was conferred on
towms outside Italy whose inhabitants were not Roman citizens. In
these cases Roman citizenship was conferred only on the local
magistrates, or sometimes on all the town councillors. During the
early empire, therefore, a "municipium" could have a population of
Roman citizens or of non-citizens governed by the Roman citizens.
A "municipium" was lower in status than a
"colonia.*

--*The Development of the Roman Law and Constitution -- XXIX.
"municipia" and colonia"

The words "municipes" and "municipia" are easy to say and obvious in
meaning, and you would never find a man who uses them, but supposes
that he clearly knows their meaning. But in fact, he says one thing
and means another,for who is there that, coming from a colony of the
Roman people, does not call himself, "municeps" and his
fellows "municipes," which is far from reason and truth. So we are
also ignorant as to what "munisipia" are
and by what law they exist, and how they differ from a ?colonia?; and
we suppose that colonies are more privileged than ?municipia?. . . .
"Municipes" are Roman citizens from Municipia having their own laws and
thrir own rights; being only partakers of the honorary priviledges
of the Roman people, they seem to have received their name from the
fact of their receiving priviledges (a munere suppessenda), not being
bound by the other restrictions or by ant law of the Roman
people. . . . But "coloniae"stand in another relationship; they do
not come into the state from the outside, nor are they grown from
their own roots, but are, as it were,
offshoots of the state, and have all the laws and institutes of the
Roman people and not those of their own making; this condition, though
it seems more oppressive and less free, yet is deemed more desirable
and honorable, because of the great and majesty of the roman people,
of which these colonies seem to be little images and copies; and
likewise because the rights of the "municipia" become more obscure and
forgotten, because from their ignorance of their proper claims.------
Aulus Gellius. N. A. XVI.13

(1) See "Dechelette,"Les fouilles du mont Beuvray (1904), pp.
118f;manual d'Archaelogie prehistorique, celtique et gallo-romaine ii,
pp 951ff.

The date is fixed by numismatic evidence;

(2) Colchester, (Tac. Agric. 14 and ann. Xiv. 31) -- Verulamium, A.D.
61 (Tac. Ann. Xiv. 33);

References:

--F. Haverfield, (revised by G. MacDonald), "The Roman Occupation of
Britain; being Six Ford Lectures)," Oxford at the Clarendon Press,
1924;

--Adkins and Adkins, "Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome," Oxford
University Press, NewYork / Oxford, 1994;

--**Oliver J. Thatcher (Ed. In Chief), "The Library of Original
Sources; The Development of the Roman Law and Constitution," University
Research Extension Co., Milwaukee, Wis., 1901

(To be Continued)

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54808 From: James Lee Mathews Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Pliney The Elder
Subject: Pliney The Elder

Named Gaius Plinius Secundus, Pliny The Elder was born in Cisalpine
Gaul, at Comum in A.D. 23. He was, when still a youth moved to Rome,
and studied un?der grammarian Apion. From his twenty-third to his
twenty-ninth year he served in the army, mostly in Germany. Nero made
him a procurator in Nearer Spain, and later he enjoyed the intimate
friendship of Vespasian on account of his history of the "Wars In
Germany."

He was of the most energetic habits, beginning study in winter at
midnight, at?tending Vespasian before daylight, looking to the duties
of his office in the morning, after a light luncheon making notes from
some book a slave read to him, then, after a cold bath and a nap,
taking up his work again until the evening meal. He always role in a
litter because while riding in this way he could still be reading. He
wrote many books but the only ones that have come down to us are those
of his "Natural History" (Naturalis Historia) really an 17-volume
encyclopedia of the knowledge of the time which was published in A.D.
77. He also wrote histories and biographies and treatises on oratory,
grammar and military tactics, all of which are now lost. As it is a
compendium we can not judge from it of his ability as an original
thinker, however we know that in A.D. 79 he was appointed the
commander of the fleet at Misenum from where he sailed on 24
August on the eruption of Vesuvius, and on that voyage he lost his
life by suffocation while attempting to examine more closely the
eruption of volcano.

References:

--Oliver J. Thatcher (Ed. In Chief), ?The Library Of Original
Sources,? University Research Extension Co., Milwaukee, Wis., 1901;

--Adkins and Adkins, ?Handbook To Life In Ancient Rome,? Oxford
University Press, New York / Oxford, 1994

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54809 From: Marcus Audens Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Mines and Quarries," -- "Roman Times Quarterly," 4th Qtr., 2007
----Mines and Quarries----

Greek Mining---
Three methods of mining were used in the classical world: placer, opencast (open cut), and deep vein. Although gold quartz was mined, the primary sources for Greeks and Egyptians alike were alluvial deposits along the courses of streams and rivers. Such placer deposits from the weathering of mineral bearing rocks where they outcrop, and many agents including water, wind, and changes of temperature, bring about the disintegration of the quartz matrix. The loose fragments called detritus, are transported and concentrated by the action of running water, the most effective means of gravity separation. The Greeks collected the heavier grains of metal on the greasy fleeces of sheep, pegged out directly in rivers, or as Strabo explains (1), in perforated troughs. The product is aptly named "white gold" by Herodotus (2), since all auriferous ore is associated with silver.

The second major source was reef gold --native metal embedded in a solid matrix--which occurs alone either in nests or as finely disseminated particles., or in connection with sulphides in the vein. Gold tellerides were unknown although, the presence of tellurium as a trace element is useful in determining the source of gold, as, for example from Dacia (Romania). Gold may have been mined by simple opencut methods but Strabo(3), is more likely to be referring to the practice of digging pits. The gradual exhaustion of alluvial sources led to the development of underground mining in the case of gold. Silver mines on the Island of Thasos in the northern Aegean were opened by the Phoenicians and still in operation at the time of Thucydides (4), and Herodotus (5), records the existence of gold and silver mines on Siphnos in the Cyclades. Early Mines on the mainland include those in Attica, in the vicinity of Mount Pangaeus, and others generally in the northern regions of Macedon and Thrace.

Prospecting---

In the absence of any detailed knowledge of the principles of geology, the Greeks were unable to prospect scientifically and relied on identifying the color of minerals at outcrops. Thus, the line of the "first contact" in Attica, the junction between adjacent bodies of ore-bearing rock was revealed by the red color of iron oxide (hematite) found on the surface. Although iron was the initial object of their search, miners must have noticed lumps of galena with their shiny facets, less quick to oxidize and too heavy to be swept away by water. Among the other sins of mineralization would have been a rich vegetation indicating the presence of phosphorus or potassium, while a denuded surface would have signaled the presence of pyrite or arsenopyrite below the surface. The most serious shortcoming of the Greeks was the failure to apply the geological evidence of one site to another; for example, although the geological formation of the area around Mount Ocha (Euboea [Evvia]) was similar to that of Laurium, no large scale mining was attempted.

(To Be Continued)

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54810 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: Book Report -- "Peter Connolly, "Greece and Rome At War,"
Salvete Omnes,

I also have found this book to be very informative. Great
llustrations too - for those of us who like pictures ;-)

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "James Lee Mathews"
<MarcusAudens@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Book Report --
>
> Peter Connolly, "Greece and
> Rome At War," Stackpole
> Books,
> Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania,
> 1998 -- ISBN
> 1-85367-303-X
>
> This six chapter book covers
> a period of twelve centuries
> in Military
> History and Development of
> the armour, organization,
> weapons, and
> tactics of the period. The
> illustrations are in color
> throughout, and
> include maps, diagrams and
> photographs of the
> topography over which
> classical battles were
> fought.
>
> The book is an excellent
> reference to the military
> aspects of the
> named civilizations, but it
> is also an excellent read
> for those who
> have an interest in
> classical military
> development.
>
> The six Chapters are by name:
>
> --Greece and Macedonia; The
> City States 800-360 B.C.
>
> --Macedon 360-140 B.C.
>
> --Italy and The Western
> Mediterranean:
> The Rise of Rome, 800-275
> B.C.
>
> --Rome 275-140 B.C.
>
> --The Roman Empire:
> The Empire 140 B.C. to A.D.
> 200
>
> --The Later Empire, A.D. 200
> to 450
>
> The three rather extensive
> Appendices are:
>
> Appendix 1 War At Sea;
>
> Appendix 2 Fortifications
> and Siege Warfare;
>
> Appendix 3 Roman Military
> Costume
>
> There is also an extensive
> Bibliography for further
> reading and
> research.
>
> I value this book highly and
> it has a place close by my
> work station
> for a constant reference.
>
> Respectfully Submitted;
>
> Marcus Audens
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54811 From: Marcus Audens Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: "Roman Theatre," -- "Roman Times Quarterly,"-- 4th Qtr. --2007
----Roman Theatre----

Origially the Roman Theatre was rectangular. In imperial times the Greek semi-circular shape appeared, but with the orchestra and stage more closely united than in Greek theatres. The seats of the Greek theatre rested on a hillside, whereas in Roman times vaulted galleries supported them. In the theatre at Orange (c. 50 A.D.) the wall of the scene building with it's superimposed orders reached it's full height behind the stage. A roof partly suspended by chains and partly cantilevered, enclosed the open air Greek theater.

From the late 3rd century BC plays were performed in Rome in temporary wooden buildings in the Forum or the Circus Maximus. The first permanent theatre at Rome was built by Pompey in 55 BC, but elsewhere permanent Roman theatres were built before this date, probably early in the 1st century BC.

The design of Roman theatres was based on Greek examples. The latter were usually built into a hillside, with a circular orchestra and a low stage opposite the auditorium. Most Roman theatres though, were built as freestanding structures, with solid masonry or vaults supporting the curved and sloping auditorium ("cavea"), and there was a semicircular orchestra. The vaults gave easy access to the tiers of seating and there was often a colonnaded gallery around the top row of seats. The masonry building behind the stage ("scaenae frons") was as high as the auditorium. Unlike the Greek theatres, the audience did not therefore have a view outside of the theatre directly over the stage. The "scaenae frons" had three or occasionally five doorways, which were usually flanked by projecting columns and the entire front of the "scaenae frons" was decorated with columns and had niches with statues.

In front of the stage was a trough or trench for the curtain ("aulaeum") which was lowered into the trough at the beginning of the performance and raised at the end. There were two smaller curtains ("siparia") to screen off parts of the "scaenae frons" as required. The "orchestra," the flat place between the stage and the auditorium was useful for seating Senators, priests and officials. Above the stage was a wooden roof that also acted as a sounding board. The audience was protected from the rain, and sun by an awning ("vellum or velarium") rigged on ropes from masts on top of the auditorium or behind the "scaenae frons" to provide shelter for the audience between performances.

Odea---

The smaller specialized type of theatre was the "odium" (pl. "odea") which catered to musical performances and shows which were more refined than those performed in theatres. "Odea" occurred mainly in the Hellenistic East and were of two types. the unroofed type was a smaller version of a theatre while the "theatrum tectum" (roofed theatre) was enclosed in a square building with a roof. The unroofed type is sometimes classified as a theatre, with the term "odium" being reserved for roofed theatres.

In Republican Rome permanent theatres were considered a decadent luxury. They were banned by senatorial decree, until Pompey dedicated his theatre in 55 BC on the Campus Martius. Before that, all theatres built in Rome were temporary wooden structures that were demolished at the end of the festival for which they were erected. In his "Natural History" Pliny the Elder describes the temporary theatre built by Marcus Scaurus when he was Aediele in 58 BC. The backdrop of the stage was arranged on three stories with 360 columns. The lower story was marble, the middle of glass, and the top story was gilded planks. Some three thousand statues adorned the structure. Pliny claims that the theatre was large enough to hold 80,000 people.

(To be continued)

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens
Senior Editor, NR



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54812 From: Maior Date: 2008-01-21
Subject: Wales: conference on Roman religion and the state
Avete quirites;
this looks very fascinating! Can't wait to read the papers.
M. Hortensia Maior
http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism/Posts/00007412.html

PRIESTS AND STATE IN THE ROMAN WORLD

LAMPETER, 28-30 AUGUST 2008

The Department of Classics at the University of Wales, Lampeter is
pleased
to announce that an international conference on `Priests and State
in the
Roman World' will take place at Lampeter between 28 and 30 August
2008.

This is a list of the confirmed papers:
J. Rüpke (Erfurt), Different colleges – never mind?
J. North (London), Lex Domitia revisited
T. J. Cornell (Manchester), TBA
A. Raggi (Pisa), Religion and Provincial Laws
S. Mitchell (Exeter), What did imperial high priests actually do?
M. Humpries (Swansea), Towards a new pontifex maximus? Roman Church
and
Roman State in Late Antiquity
A. Dalla Rosa (Pisa-Cologne), Auspicia of the emperor and the
proconsuls
J. Rich (Nottingham), Roman Priests and Roman War
F. Santangelo (Lampeter), Pontiffs and pax deorum
A. Clark (Oxford), Magistri and ministri in Roman Italy
E. Isayev (Exeter), Just the right amount of priestly foreigners:
Roman
citizenship for the Greek priestess of Ceres
J. Richardson (Lampeter), The Vestal Virgins and the Annales Maximi
F. Glinister (London), The Salian Virgins
J. Reynolds (Cambridge), Priests in Cyrenaica
N. Belayche (Paris), Priests at Pisidian Antioch
R. Häussler (Osnabruck), State and Religion in Gallia Narbonensis
B. Rossignol (Paris), Municipal and provincial priests from the
Danubian
provinces (Pannonia, Dacia, Moesia superior)
B. Goffaux (Lille), Priests in Roman Spain
L. Capponi (Newcastle), Priests, Books and State in Hellenistic and
Roman
Egypt
A. Powell (UWICAH), Killing a priest of Apollo: Aeneid 10, 537-42
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54813 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Agricola Severo sal.

Thank you very much for your answer.

optime vale in cura deorum!


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M•IVL•SEVERVS"
<marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
>
> Severus Agricolae omnibusque sal.
>
> Yes, M. Lucretius Agricola, the sentence above in your message
means the same as the one below. That's clever!
> We would hope that everybody will post on our Forum in good faith,
and under Concordia's guidance... But we are not "thought policemen"
of any sort.
> So, if someone writes about the Great Pumkin as in your first
example, we will think that such person is acting in good faith, and
without any intention to offend or attack a fellow Nova Roman.
> If not, we will know what to do.
> You are very welcome and optime valete in cure deoreum!
>
>
> M•IVL•SEVERVS
> PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ
>
> SENATOR
> PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
> SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
> INTERPRETER
> MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54814 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: a. d. XI Kal. Feb: Dies natalis L. Moravi Messalae
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Salvete, vosque bona Iuppiter auctet ope.

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Februaras; haec dies comitialis est:

Felices natalis, Luci Moravi Messala! Di Deaeque dent tibi quae
velis.


AUC 642-647 / 111-106 BCE: The Jugurtha War

"Adherbal, attacked by Jugurtha and besieged in the town of Cirtha
was killed in violation of a senatorial decree. Because of this, war
was declared upon Jugurtha, and consul Calpurnius Bestia, who was
sent out to conduct this war, concluded a treaty with Jugurtha,
without being ordered to do so by the people or the Senate. Under
safe-conduct, Jugurtha was invited to Rome so that he might indicate
the instigators of his plots (he was said to have corrupted many
senators with bribes), and arrived. Because he killed some sort of
king who was called Massiva and tried to claim the kingdom of the
hated Jugurtha from the Roman people, Jugurtha risked standing trial
for his life, and secretly fled. It is said that when he left the
city, he commented: "What a corrupt city! It will perish as soon as
it finds someone to buy it." Deputy Aulus Postumius was defeated in
battle by Jugurtha and added to this an dishonorable peace treaty,
which the Senate preferred not to ratify (110 BCE).

"Consul Quintus Caecilius Metellus defeated Jugurtha in two battles
and devastated all Numidia (109 BCE)." ~ Titus Livius, Perioche 64-65

Battle of the Muthul River

In the spring of 108 BCE, after a few Roman defeats and political
intrigues had prolonged the war needlessly, Quintus Caecilius
Metellus finally led a Roman army against Jugurtha. Jugurtha withdrew
before Metellus and prepared a trap. The path of the Roman army had
to cross a mountain range to reach the Numidian interior, then
traverse a desert plane eighteen miles wide before reaching the River
Muthul where it would find much needed water before it could move
on. Along the flank of the desert plane was a low ridge covered with
brush. Near the River Muthul, Jugurtha placed a portion of his
infantry and all of his elephants as a blocking force under Bomilcar.
Behind the ridge, near to the mountain passes, he placed the best of
his remaining infantry and all of his cavalry.

Coming out of the mountain passes, Metellus saw the trap, but knew he
had to reach the river. He dispatched a small force under Publius
Rutilius Rufus towards the river that was to pitch camp. Rutilius
would later become a famed historian. Metellus sent the main body of
the army on a march out of the mountain passes piecemeal, in small
detachments, marching obliquely across the plane towards Jugurtha's
forces on the ridge. His plan of battle, exposing the flank of part
of his army, exposing part to a superior force, and engaging a
cavalry force when he lacked any cavalry to screen his own movements,
almost cost him his entire army.

Jugurtha had his infantry on the ridge cross behind the Romans to
retake the mountain passes and thus cut off the Roman army's retreat.
Swarms of Numidian cavalry charged down from the ridge engulfing the
Romans, keeping them in small detachments that were unable to advance
or support one another. Bomilcar, leading the other portion of
Jugurtha's infantry and elephants, attacked Rutilius Rufus so that he
was unable to reinforce the main Roman body. At that point the
confused battle had broken down into several small engagements, each
Roman detachment having to desperately fight its own battle to
survive, while Numidian cavalry controlled the battlefield and
prevented the Romans from making any coordinated effort.
It was then that Marius, a Roman officer who had risen from the
ranks, managed to put together a number of Roman detachments, forming
a column of about two thousand legionaries. First he reached Metullus
and rescued his commander's detachment. Then forming his force at the
foot of the ridge, Marius led the charge uphill that routed
Jugurtha's finest infantry, seized the ridge and regained the
mountain passes. From this advantage point Marius was then able to
fall on the rear of the Numidian cavalry and rejoin the separated
detachment into a cohesive Roman army. Meanwhile Rufus held off
Bomilcar, then led another attack that scattered Bomilcar's force and
killed or captured all of the Numidian elephants. Late in the evening
the two Roman forces finally managed to rejoin.

Marius' action saved Metullus' army from annihilation at Muthul.
Metellus next split his force into two columns, one led by himself,
the other by Marius. Both columns went on to seize the towns of
Numidia, Marius succeeding, where Metellus stalled. At Zama, Metullus
was again taken by surprise, his camp overrun by Jugurtha. He was
forced to withdraw his entire army back to the Roman province around
Carthage, thus abandoning all the towns seized by Marius in Numidia.
Metellus' treatment of his own men led to a breach between himself
and Marius. Marius returned to Rome and, against the opposition of
the Senate, appealing directly to the people of Rome, he was elected
consul in 107 BCE. Next the Senate refused to grant an army for the
new consul. With the help of a Tribune of the People, he did attain
money to raise an army, although not in the usual fashion of
enlisting from the comitia Centuriata, and thus he was to return to
continue the war.


"When Jugurtha, expelled from Numidia by Gaius Marius, received help
of Bocchus, king of the Maurians, Bocchus' troops were slaughtered in
battle and Bocchus no longer wanted to continue the war he had so
unfortunately undertaken. He threw Jugurtha in chains and handed him
over to Marius; in this affair, the main actor was Lucius Cornelius
Sulla, the quaestor of Gaius Marius." ~ Titus Livius, Perioche 66


The books from Livy's History that cover these years are missing. We
have the Perioche, which is a later description of the various books
of Livy's completed work, Sallustius' account of the war, and there
is the unreliable "Life of Marius" by Plutarch. We do know that the
Senate continued to snub Marius afterward, granting the victory to
Metellus instead and allowing him the cognomen of Numidicus. The
capture of Jugurtha was attributed to L. Cornelius Sulla. The people
of Rome took a different view of the war, electing Marius to the
consulship on six other occasions in the next twenty years. Metellus
remained unpopular because of his harshness in command, although
others admired him for it. He was tried for extortion, but acquitted
when the senatorial jury refused to look at his accounts (Cicero
Att.1.16.4; Balb. 11; Val Max. 2.10.1). In 100 BCE Metellus went
into voluntary exile rather than swear to allow the agrarian law of
Tribunus Plebis Saturninus. Later that same year, Marius was consul
and had to put down the riots that followed the murder of Saturninus
inside the Senate while he was under a safe conduct.


Our thought for today is taken from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 9.4:

"He who does wrong to another does wrong against himself. He who acts
unjustly towards others acts unjustly to himself, because he makes
himself evil."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54815 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus S.P.D.

It should be remembered that lasts year Praetors never issued an edict on
list moderation. They let the TOS from Yahoo stand alone.

Vale




>From: "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTVM PRAETORIVM DE SERMONE (CVRIATI IVLI III)
>Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:01:42 -0000
>
>Caesar Piscino sal.
>
>I was scribe to one of last year's praetores. I gave the same advice
>then. Precision, accuracy and relevancy.
>
>Wooly - I'd attach a definition of fluffy to that :)
>
>Vale bene
>
>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...>
>wrote:
> >
> > Salve Gnae Iuli
> >
> > Where were you before when we could have used you to question last
> > year's praetores on moderation?
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54816 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-01-22
Subject: New member in aed. cur. team (O. Fabius Montanus) - edict mod.
S. Lucilius Tutor et P. Memmius Albucius omn. s.d.


Please find below the amendment to our edictum 61-05 organizing the
curule aedilician team
for 2761 auc.

This amendment allow us to welcome in our Cohors, in full
concertation with Gov. Daciae Iulius, a new member and scriba, Fabius
Montanus, who will assume the coordination between the aedilitas and
Prov. Dacia's organization staff for summer 2761 conventus.

Valete omnes,


Lucilius and Memmius.


----------------------------EDICTUM 61-06----------------------------

CURULE AEDILES S. LUCILIUS TUTOR et P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS EDICT
(n° 61-06) concerning the modification of the organization of the
aedilician team for 2761 a.u.c. (de mutatione ordinis cohortis
aedilicianae pro MMDCCLXI auc)

We, Sextus Lucilius Tutor and Publius Memmius Albucius, aediles
curules, by the authority vested by the constitution, the laws and
the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;

In order to fulfill our duties as elected aediles curules and give
during this year 2761 auc the best service to the res publica and to
Nova Roma citizens,

Both edict :

Article 1

In the article 5 of our previous edict 61-05, is added
alphabetically, before "assigned to the following tasks", the new
paragraph below:
"Oppius Fabius Montanus: coordination, in due relation with governor
Iulius and his team, of Dacian (European) conventus 2761 auc., and
ludi to be organized there by the aedilitas curulis."
The other provisions of the edict 61-05 are not modified.

Article 2

Every novaroman public officer and her/his departement must, as far
as each one is concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be
published in the Tabularium Novae Romae at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Tabularium_%28Nova_Roma%29, and
in Nova Roma Yahoo! relevant lists.


Issued simultaneously in Brno, Pannonia czeca et Cadomagus, Gallia,
a.d. XII pridie Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (21st January 2008 c.c.)
during the consulate of M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54817 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Pilum Quarterly" - 4th Qtr. - 2007
Ladies and Gentlemen of Nova Roma;

This messages announces the subject publication. As before, I shall simply send a series of articles for your enjoyment. "Pilum" is meant to be a military publication since my interest in Nova-Roma, and Roman Cultural Studies lie principally in the area of military and engineering. Please enjoy the articles.

Any one who is interested in a hard copy of "Pilum" I remind you that it can be copied off the internet easily. However, it has been indicated that hard copies should be available for purchase. I will maintain a Master copy of these articles and should anyone wish me to provide them a "hard copy" of this "Pilum," please let me know, off-list and I will give the the price inclusive of postage for this issue.

My thanks for your kind consideration of this message;

Very Respectfully;

Marcus Audens



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54818 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Torsion Catapult -- "Pilum" , 4th Qtr. - 2007
----The Torsion Catapult----

========================

It is said by some that the high-water mark of the ancient mechanics was the Torsion Catapult. The mechanics of this invention were perfected prior to 300 BC and constituted the main artillery in the world until well after gunpowder was introduced.

Even then, the catapult's accuracy and range exceeded that of early gun powder arms. The Chevalier de Folard, a French military author and writer, as late as 1727, advocated in his commentary to Dom Thuillier's "Polybios" (cited by Sir R. Payne-Gallway, "The Crossbow", P. 273) that the torsion catapult should be brought back into military service on the grounds that it was more accurate in it's fire that the cannon of the period, and added that it was far cheaper to use and maintain as well.

The catapults used in ancient times were two essential types:

--the first was the catapult proper in a variety of sizes which used different sized arrows as it's ammunition;

--the second was known as the "stone thrower" which was also produced in a variety of sizes, and which used different sized stones as it's ammunition.

The basic principle of the operation for both was the same. The piece was composed of a heavy wooden body of some length, with a groove cut into it in which lay the stone or arrow. The torsion cables were mounted in front end of the body
and resembled two large barrels or cylinders. These vertically mounted torsion cables were made up of a great many strands of special material wound into skeins. These individual strands provided more flexibility and power than the solid laid ropes /cables of the day. Each one of the sets of skeins were wound tightly around one another with a end of a wooden arm inserted through the skeins, the skeins were wound tight and strained against the top and bottom of the frame in which they were installed. These arms carried the bowstring and replaced the arms of the bow previously used. When the bowstring was drawn down by a windlass or windlasses for loading the weapon, the arms were also drawn down which twisted the skeins still further. The weapon was then loaded with stone or arrow, and when the bowstring was released, with a special trigger mechanism, this allowed the skeins to uncoil which released the energy stored in the twisted skein and throwing the arms forward, this action propelled the arrow or stone forward with great force. The loading windlasses were operated by hand and worked by the catapult's crew. The whole mechanism was mounted on a stand, and could be easily moved with a heavy cart or on a wheeled frame made to hold the whole weapon assembly.

The material of which the skeins were made were the key to the success of the torsion catapult, and the most effective materials were sinews of animals, except pigs or hogs, and women's hair. Horsehair was only used as a poor substitute. The attempt to use metal springs by Ctesibius was not successful.

The women's hair established a significant trade a a source of the material. The Island of Rhodes sent to Sinope for her war with Mithridates, in 250 BC, 300 talents (approximately three-quarters of a ton) of prepared hair, along with 300 talents of prepared sinew. In 225 BC Seleucus made Rhode a present of hair weighing at least several tons. (1) Apparently women of the lower classes regularly sold their hair for profit. In the last siege of Carthage, women gave their hair for the catapults, and the special mention of it was essentially because the hair was given free, and women of the higher classes who did not normally cut their hair did so at this time for the sake of the city under Roman siege.

As late as the very early 1800's the accuracy of a gunpowder infantry weapon at 100 yards was chancy at best with the target being only a single man. However, the arrow-firing catapults (often referred to as a scorpion) were deadly at 100 yards for a similar target, and they could be trusted, as well, to hit a group of men at 200 yards; something that was virtually impossible with a flintlock musket. The maximum range, if the catapult, elevated to the extreme, was about 500 yards, but at that range was not accurate, and had little power save the weight and momentum of the projectile.

The larger stone-throwing torsion catapults were rated at a range of 200 yards. At this range it was the weight of the stone alone that effected the damage imparted to the target. The accuracy was good at short ranges perhaps 100 yards.(2) The heaviest of the ammunition used was a stone which weighed between 50 and 60 pounds (one talent).

This sized stone was not effective against a well constructed stone wall, but was very effective against other similar weapons or wood-constructed war machines such as towers or "turtles,"(3) and could smash through any improvised or brick wall. This was shown effectively in the battle of Rhodes when Demetrius took the mole by breaking through the wall there.

Historically, Archimedes is said to have develeoped and constructed a stone-thrower which used a stone weighing three talents. However, there is no record of such a weapon ever being used in battle.

Defense against the stone-thrower was to position large heavy bags filled with material that would absorb the force of the stone missile, or heavy chains suspended over the target site.

(1) Polybios, v, 89, 9;

(2) Schramm, "Berlin Abb." 1918.

(3) Large wooden structure holding a ram;

Reference:

W.W. Tarn, "Hellenistic Military and Naval Developments," Ares Publishers Inc., Chicago, 1975. ISBN 0-89005-086-4

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54819 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Caltrops #2" - "Pilum" - 4th Qtr - 2007
----Caltrops (part 2)----

=======================

As the case with so many pre-modern weapons, the caltrop's origins remain shrouded in mystery. It is possible that it's earliest recorded use occurred in Persia, at the Battle of Arbela (Gaugamela) on Oct. 1, 331 BC. At any rate, Polyaenus of Macedonia, writing 500 years after the fact claimed the Persian King Darius III sowed some of the ground in front of his army with "crows feet" in order to restrict the enemy's freedom of movement. Alexander the Great, however, was able to maneuver around those devices, penetrate the Persian line of battle and win the day. If the "crows feet"were actually caltrops, they must have already been known for some time, for Polyaenus does not describe them further or state that they were a new invention. And although they may not have foiled Alexander at Gaugamela, he and his successors seem to have considered them a weapon worth using. After Alexander's death, his self-appointed successors struggled for supremacy and territory within the vast empire they had helped to conquer. In the ensuing wars between the various Hellenic Monarchies, extensive use was made of wooden balls armed with metal spikes, which formed a valuable component in field and camp defenses and in perimeter protection of fixed fortifications. Sown on the battlefield, and sometimes partially buried, they were much more difficult to detect than elaborate, time-consuming systems of pits and stakes, and served to discourage attacks on vulnerable sections of the battle-line. Of course, a thick belt of caltrops also restricted the movements of one's own troops, but that was small price to pay for the security they gave. Although not immediately lethal, the device caused wounds which sapped an enemy's morale. The sight of injuries inflicted on horses or comrades by caltrops made infantry and, even more so, cavalry uneasy about advancing over ground that might be strewn with the insidious devices.--thus restricting their offensive capabilities to a greater extent, perhaps than actual combat fatalities. Moreover, an adequate supply of caltrops was an excellent guarantee against the danger of a night attack.

The Romans, with their usual flexibility in matters of weaponry, were quick to adopt the caltrop from various Hellenistic armies and military engineers they encountered. Surprisingly Gaius Julius Caesar made no use of caltrops in the great siege works that he erected around the Gallic stronghold of Alesia in 52 BC, but his "blocks of wood....with iron hooks fixed in them," called :goads" by his legionaries, served the same purpose.

(To be continued)

Reference:

Robert W. Reid, "Weaponry," Military History Magazine, (August - 1998), Page 20.

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54820 From: James Mathews Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: "Tessarius" -- "Pilum", 4th Qtr - 2007
---"Tessarius"---

This question was sent to the Sodalitas Militarium for an answer"

"Could you please tell me or send me a photo of the uniform worn by a "Tessarius??"

============================
In response:---

In the following book;

Graham Sumner, "Roman Army; Wars of the Empire"

There are pictures of Century and Legion Officers and Legionaries who enjoyed a special place in their unit. However, there is no picture of a "Tessarius." The reference mentioned and shows a picture in detail of an "Optio" and specifically mentions that an "Optio" Ring and Staff were the only way to recognize an "Optio."

The following reference;

Graham Webster. "The Roman Imperial Army"

indicates that the "Tessarius" was the keeper of the "watchword" and "presumably was in charge of small century pickets and fatigue parties."

The following reference:

Peter Connolly, "The Legionary"

Indicates that the "Tessarius" was paid at the rate of 1 1/2 times (sesquiplicarii) a legionaries pay and was known as a "Principales" and a junior staff officer.

No other mention of the "Tessarius" is made in the book's index.

The following references:

Rankov / Hook, "The Praetorian Guard:" Osprey Elite Series #50;

Simkins and Embleton, "The Roman Army from Caesar to Trajan," Osprey Men -At-Arms Series #46;

Sekunda /Northwood/ Hook, "Early Roman Armies," Osprey Men-At-Arms Series #283.

all have pictures depicting the various "principales" and honor bearers, but no reference to the "Tessarius" or any special uniform or accouterments.

From these references it is my thought that a "Tessarius" was recognized as such only by his name and face within the century, and his uniform was no different than a legionary. However, it is to be remembered that a Centurion had almost total control of his century, and I would suppose from that aspect if he chose to signify his "Tessarius" by some means that there as nothing to prevent him from doing so Perhaps a medal around the neck on a thong, or a special ring, or some kind of a brooch or distinctive design on his helmet or armor might do the trick.

However this last is only my own personal thought and is nowhere, that I know of, indicated in literature.

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54821 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: a. d. X Kal. Feb.: ludi Palatini
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Februaras; haec dies comitialis est:
ludi Palatini

The final day of theatrical performances on the Palatine for the ludi
Augustales.


AUC 645-653 / 108-100 BCE: Marius and the Cimbrian War

"Consul Marcus Junius Silanus unsuccessfully fought against the
Cimbrians. The Senate ignored the envoys of the Cimbrians who
demanded land and a place to settle (108 BCE).

"In the country of the Nitiobriges, consul Lucius Cassius [Longinus]
was massacred with his army by the Gallic Tigurini, a Helvetian tribe
that had left its own country. After the soldiers who had survived
the disaster had given hostages and half of their possessions, they
arranged to be released unharmed (107 BCE). ~ Titus Plinius, Perioche
65

"After the defeat of his army, Marcus Aurelius Scaurus, a deputy of
the consul, was captured by the Cimbrians and called to their
council, where he deterred them from crossing the Alps and going to
Italy, saying that the Romans were unconquerable. He was killed by a
savage young man, Boiorix. Defeated by the same enemies, consul
Gnaeus Manlius and proconsul Quintus Servilius Caepio were stripped
of both their camps; according to Valerius Antias, 80,000 soldiers
and 40,000 servants and camp followers were killed near Arausio.
Caepio, who had caused the defeat by his rashness, was convicted; his
possessions were confiscated (for the first time since king
Tarquinius) and his powers abrogated.

"During the triumph of Gaius Marius, Jugurtha walked in front of the
chariot with his two sons, and was killed in the jail. Marius
entered the Senate in triumphal dress, something no one had ever done
before, and his consulship was prolonged out of fear of the Cimbrian
war. He was away when he was elected for consul for the second and
third time, and obtained a fourth consulship by pretending not to be
aiming for it.

"The people chose Gnaeus Domitius as pontifex maximus. Having
devastated everything between Rhône and Pyrenees, the Cimbrians moved
through a mountain pass into Hispania, where they were -after having
devastated many districts- routed by the Celtiberians. They returned
to Gaul and joined the Teutons in the land of the Veliocassians.

"Consul Gaius Marius defended his camp against a violent attack by
the Teutons and Ambronians. After this, he defeated these enemies in
two battles near Aquae Sextiae, in which, they say, 200,000 enemies
were killed and 90,000 captured.

"Although away from home, Marius was elected consul for the fifth
time. He postponed the triumph offered to him until he had also
defeated the Cimbrians. The Cimbrians, who had driven back and put to
flight proconsul Quintus Catulus, who had wanted to block the passes
in the Alps (near the river Adige he left a cohort that occupied a
mountain castle; but by its own valour it broke away and followed the
fleeing proconsul and his army), invaded Italy, but were defeated in
battle by the united forces of this Catulus and Gaius Marius; it is
said that 160,000 enemies were killed and 60,000 captured (in the
Battle of Vercellae). Although Marius, welcomed by the applause of
the entire state, had been offered two triumphs, he was content with
one. The first men in the state, who had until then envied the "new
man" who had reached so many important posts, now admitted that the
state had been rescued by him.

"Publicius Malleolus, who had killed his mother, was the first to be
sewn into a sack and thrown into the sea.

"It is said that the sacred shields moved and rattled before the
Cimbrian war was over." ~ Titus Livius, Perioche 67.1-8; 68.2-10


Our thought for today comes from the Monosticha of Cato Maior:

"Love your parents; show respect towards your relatives; give fearful
respect towards your teacher; safeguard what is entrusted to you."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54822 From: andrea cologni Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Inoltra: Roman Events in Bulgaria
Nota: allegato messaggio inoltrato.

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54823 From: andrea cologni Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Roman Festival in Bulgaria
I would like to note the Roman Historical Festival that will keep for first time in Bulgaria in the city of Svishtov (old roman fortress of Novae) from the 27 to the 29 June 2008.
This event is organized from cultural association PRIMA LEGIO ITALICA from Villadose, and from the Municipality of Svishtov and will participate groups of rievocation from all Europe; moreover the day before the 26 june will be a Conference organized from the Archaeological Museum of Svishtov about the limes Danubiano.
This event will be patronage from the magazine ARCHEOLOGIA VIVA .
For information pls check
: www.legio-i-italica.it/novae/


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 54824 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-01-23
Subject: Re: Sacra Privata Poll
Salvete,

To relight the fire in the hearth of the Temple of Vesta, were it to go out, was by using friction, that is, the fire was rekindled by rubbing sticks together. That is what I meant by the "traditional way". (I do not use matches, flint or steel.) If you have never tried this, it is not as easy as it sounds. It is quite laborious and takes considerable patience and persistence.
First, you must select the right kind of wood to be used. It must be soft, neither wet or too green or have any resin on it. Aleppo pines were common around Rome (or so I understand), so I try to use pinewood. Plus dry pine needles make good kindling. Since I live very close to our local mountains, getting a good supply of pine needles is not a problem for me. However, collecting any kind of wood from our forests is illegal. So, I go to a specialty store that provides all sorts of woods for people to use in their fireplaces. I have been able, at cost, to obtain good quality pinewood.
I have found it takes an even pressure and a constant speed when spinning the wood stick that you hold down against the other stick. Once I see even a wisp of smoke, I gently blow on it sideways and it usually catches on the kindling. Then I add some more kindling, the drier the better, and voila - fire!
Sounds easy, but it ain't! Takes practice. Took me quite a few tries before I got the hang of it, but doing it even once made me understand all the more (aside from the punishment and the predicted dire consequences for Rome) why the Vestals never wanted the fire to go out!

Valete bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."



marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salva sis Valeria Messallina

Perhaps you could explain the finer points of the traditional way of
lighting a fire. I know the method of striking a blade on flint,
which I can't use inside the hortus Cereri because of the ban on iron
in Her ceremonies. Friction of wood on wood I've never tried. I
occasionally resort to a magnifying glass. And chemicals, well, for
showmanship, mixtures similar to blackpower, maybe with shavings of
aluminum mixed in for sparkle, or additional chemicals for color. But
using chemicals usually involves sulfur, which is fine for
purification rites and in rites for Di inferni, but not something
done usually. Most often what I do is take coals from a cooking fire
(without any special way of lighting it first) that I set on kindling
inside a molucum atop a square stone altar for Di celesti, or, if for
Di terrestri, in a round lebes on a tripod.

We've talked before about what woods are proper to use in a focus -
arbores felices and arbores infelices - and the shape of a focus
proper to which rites, and many other aspects of ritual. But I don't
think we ever discussed fire-making.

Vale et vade in pace Vestae
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina
<violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am very impressed by Piscinus, but then he is always impressive
in all he does.
> I have a lararium I built myself. It is in a separate room where
everyday I conduct all my morning and evening rites to Vesta. At
certain times of the year for special rituals, I have an outdoor
hearth where I can light a fire, which I do so in the traditional way
and that took some mastering, believe me!
>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of
Vesta."
>
>






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