Salvete,

To relight the fire in the hearth of the Temple of Vesta, were it to go out, was by using friction, that is, the fire was rekindled by rubbing sticks together. That is what I meant by the "traditional way". (I do not use matches, flint or steel.) If you have never tried this, it is not as easy as it sounds. It is quite laborious and takes considerable patience and persistence.
First, you must select the right kind of wood to be used. It must be soft, neither wet or too green or have any resin on it. Aleppo pines were common around Rome (or so I understand), so I try to use pinewood. Plus dry pine needles make good kindling. Since I live very close to our local mountains, getting a good supply of pine needles is not a problem for me. However, collecting any kind of wood from our forests is illegal. So, I go to a specialty store that provides all sorts of woods for people to use in their fireplaces. I have been able, at cost, to obtain good quality pinewood.
I have found it takes an even pressure and a constant speed when spinning the wood stick that you hold down against the other stick. Once I see even a wisp of smoke, I gently blow on it sideways and it usually catches on the kindling. Then I add some more kindling, the drier the better, and voila - fire!
Sounds easy, but it ain't! Takes practice. Took me quite a few tries before I got the hang of it, but doing it even once made me understand all the more (aside from the punishment and the predicted dire consequences for Rome) why the Vestals never wanted the fire to go out!

Valete bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."



marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salva sis Valeria Messallina

Perhaps you could explain the finer points of the traditional way of
lighting a fire. I know the method of striking a blade on flint,
which I can't use inside the hortus Cereri because of the ban on iron
in Her ceremonies. Friction of wood on wood I've never tried. I
occasionally resort to a magnifying glass. And chemicals, well, for
showmanship, mixtures similar to blackpower, maybe with shavings of
aluminum mixed in for sparkle, or additional chemicals for color. But
using chemicals usually involves sulfur, which is fine for
purification rites and in rites for Di inferni, but not something
done usually. Most often what I do is take coals from a cooking fire
(without any special way of lighting it first) that I set on kindling
inside a molucum atop a square stone altar for Di celesti, or, if for
Di terrestri, in a round lebes on a tripod.

We've talked before about what woods are proper to use in a focus -
arbores felices and arbores infelices - and the shape of a focus
proper to which rites, and many other aspects of ritual. But I don't
think we ever discussed fire-making.

Vale et vade in pace Vestae
M Moravius Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina
<violetphearsen@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> I am very impressed by Piscinus, but then he is always impressive

in all he does.

> I have a lararium I built myself. It is in a separate room where

everyday I conduct all my morning and evening rites to Vesta. At
certain times of the year for special rituals, I have an outdoor
hearth where I can light a fire, which I do so in the traditional way
and that took some mastering, believe me!

>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of

Vesta."

>
>

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,

The Collegium Pontificum has met and has unanimously approved the following
items. I request that the NR Calendar be set to reflect the calendar dates,
and that the Lictor status be removed from the missing Lictores by the Censors.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus
For the Collegium Pontificum


ITEM I: Setting Feast Days for 2008

The Collegium Pontificum sets the following festival days:

Compitalia - January 5 (Julian) January 18th (Gregorian)
Fornacalia - February 17th (Julian) February 29th (Gregorian)
Sementivae - January 24th (Julian) February 7th (Gregorian)
Fariae Latinae - April 20th Gregorian


ITEM II: Application for Camillus Program of Lucius Vitellius
Triarius

Lucius Vitellius Triarius
would be working with Pontifex Flamen Cerialis, Fl. Galerius
Aurelianus, who has offered to help develop a program of learning.


ITEM III: Removal of Lictors
The following Lictores have bouncing addresses and cannot be
contacted: removed themselves from the Comitia Curiata and have
become uncontactable:

Edwin_Tompkins@... Edwinus Planincolus Ravennanus Constantius
qccaesar@... Quintus Cornelius Caesar
danedwardsuk@... Iunius Silanus





**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@... wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> The Collegium Pontificum has met and has unanimously approved the

following

> items. I request that the NR Calendar be set to reflect the calendar

dates,

> and that the Lictor status be removed from the missing Lictores by

the Censors.

>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Pontifex Maximus
> For the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
> ITEM I: Setting Feast Days for 2008
>
> The Collegium Pontificum sets the following festival days:
>
> Compitalia - January 5 (Julian) January 18th (Gregorian)
> Fornacalia - February 17th (Julian) February 29th (Gregorian)
> Sementivae - January 24th (Julian) February 7th (Gregorian)
> Fariae Latinae - April 20th Gregorian
>
>

M. Lucretius Agricola M. Cassio Juliano S.P.D.

I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI

I have three questions.

1. Shall I remove the word "Unofficial" from that page?

2. When you write "Fariae Latinae", do you mean "Feriae Latinae"?

3. Can you confirm the nundinal letter of "A"?

Finally, I will remind you that Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius
Postumianus has the status of "wikimagister" and his technical
wikiediting skills have my full confidence.

Many thanks in advance.

Optime vale in cura deorum

Salvete,

Notice of Election for Dominus Factionis 2761 a.U.c.

The position of Dominus factionis is elected head of the Factio
Veneta and is elected each year by the members of the factio. The
responsibilities of the position include promoting the Factio,
updating the Factio Veneta page on the NR Wiki, verifying the Ludi
Circenses Championship pages are correct for Factio Veneta Members,
and acting as a moderator for the Factio Veneta discussion list.

If you are interested in serving as the Dominus Factionis for the
Blues this year, please announce your candidacy here before 11:59
p.m., Roma time, Wednesday, January 30. Election will be by poll on
this site, starting on Thursday, January 31, and will close at
Midnight, Roma time, on February 4. Results will be announced on
February 5, when the new Dominus Factionis takes office.

I cannot run for the office this year, as I am elected Quaestor,
appointed to the Curule Aediles, which poses a conflict of interest.

Valete,

L. Vitellius Triarius
Dominus factionis
Factio Veneta

C. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae S.P.D.

> I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI

You made a mistake on month February. The bis sextus is not the 25th
february, but the 24th.

You wrong wrote :

23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart.
24 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart.
25 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.

The right month February is :

23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart. Terminalia
24 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
25 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart. Regifugium
26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.

The bissext follows the Terminalia and is placed where was the old
month Mercedonius.

Cura ut valeas.

G. Petronius Dexter.

Salvete,

The original message should have read that the election for Dominus
factionis will take place by poll on the Factio Veneta list, not the
main list. The address for the FV list is:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta/

Valete,

L. Vitellius Triarius
Dominus Factionis
Factio Veneta

Agricola Dextro sal.

Thank you for taking an interest in this. However, I have followed
this page: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates

Since Pontifex Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus played a
big part in creating that page I think that I cannot make the changes
you suggest without consulting him. I do urge you to visit the
discussion page for this article at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Talk:Roman_dates and raise your concerns
there.

Again, many thanks!

Optime vale in cura deorum!




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

>
>
> C. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae S.P.D.
>
> > I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI
>
> You made a mistake on month February. The bis sextus is not the 25th
> february, but the 24th.
>
> You wrong wrote :
>
> 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart.
> 24 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart.
> 25 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
>
> The right month February is :
>
> 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart. Terminalia
> 24 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> 25 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart. Regifugium
> 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
>
> The bissext follows the Terminalia and is placed where was the old
> month Mercedonius.
>
> Cura ut valeas.
>
> G. Petronius Dexter.
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Deus salvere vos iubet

Hodie est ante diem IX Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:
feriae Sementinae, Paganalia

Felices natalis, Publi Memmi Albuci, Aedilis Curulis! Di Deaeque dent
tibi quae velis.

AUC 829 / 76 CE: Birth of Emperor Hadrian (Publius Aelius Traianus
Hadrianus).

AUC 794 / 41 CE: Death of Caligula (Gaius Claudius Nero Caesar
Germanicus)

"The feriae Sementivae (Seed-time festival) is that day set by the
pontifices; it was named from 'sementis' (seeding), because it is
entered upon for the sake of the sowing." ~ Varro, Lingua Latinae 6.26

That day is set by the priests,
Why are you looking for moveable days in the calendar?
Though the day of the feast is uncertain, its time is known
~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti, 1.659-661

The feriae Sementivae, or Sementinae, were conducted on two dates,
seven days apart, for two early sowings. The dates were not fixed in
the calendar, but set by the pontifices in accordance to the
weather. The weather forecasts were determined by the rustic
sidereal calendar that looked at the rising and setting of certain
stars. Here the particular star that would have been associated with
the commencement of the feriae Sementina is Rigel.

"On the eight day before the calends of February the star that Tubero
calls Regia Stella sets in the morningin the breast of Leo." ~
Plinius Secunda, Historia Naturalis 18.64

In the time of Ovid and Plinius, Rigel set just before dawn on what
was the night of 24/25. The date would be somewhat different today
because of the progression of the equinoxes and also because the
Romans used the Julian calendar rather than the Gregorian that we use
in our civil reckonings today. The Julian calendar currently being
13 days behind the Gregorian means that 24/25 January by the Julian
won't arrive until the night of 6/7 February on the Gregorian
calendar. And the setting of Rigel just before dawn should arrive,
by my crude calculations, on the morning of 9 February. This year
the Pontifices have set the feriae Sementinae by the Julian calendar
so that Nova Roma shall celebrate them on 7 February.

Like the Compitalia, the feriae Sementinae began as a rural festival,
the feriae conceptivae. In the countryside they became the Paganalia
where neighbors of rural districts (pagus/pagi) held a spring sowing
festival. In the City, dependent on produce from far distant wheat
fields, the feriae Sementina made a special sacrifice of a pregnant
sow to appease Tellus and Ceres.

When the seed has been sown and the land is productive.
You bullocks, crowned with garlands, stand at the full trough,
Your labour will return with the warmth of spring.
Let the farmer hang the toil-worn plough on its post:
The wintry earth dreaded its every wound.
Steward, let the soil rest when the sowing is done,
And let the men who worked the soil rest too.
Let the village keep festival: farmers, purify the village,
And offer the yearly cakes on the village hearths.
Propitiate Tellus and Ceres, the mothers of the crops,
With their own kernels, and a pregnant sow's entrails.
Ceres and Terra fulfill a common function:
One supplies the chance to bear, the other the soil.
~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti, 1.662-674


We get some idea of the earlier sowing festivals first with Varro:

"The elevated soil that lies between two furrows is called
the 'porca,' as though it were a sacrificial pig, and seeds
were 'sacrificed' to these wheat fields, just as they said 'to
sacrifice' when they gave the entrails of sacrificial victims to the
Gods." ~ Varro Rerum Rustica 1.29

In Praeneste, in the Sabine territories, and among the Samnites, two
special priests, called Semones, performed the sowing ritual. At
Praeneste the Semones were related to the semi-divine twin Depidii
shepherds who raised the hero-founder Caeculus. Caeculus, like
Servius Tullius was said to have been conceived from a spark of
Volcanus as his mother sat by the hearth. She became pregnant, so the
story went, when a spark fell down into her bosum. His mother exposed
him by a sacred spring at the Temple of Jupiter. Two girls who were
sent to fetch water found the baby Caeculus. They brought him to the
Depidii brothers. As in the legends of Romulus and Remus, Caeculus
gathered a band of men around him who engaged in banditry. Caeculus
invited the people of a nearby village to a festival and asked that
they join him to found a new city. When they ridiculed his claim to
divine parentage, he called upon his Father for a sign and Vulcanus
sent a ring of fire around the assembled men. Among the Sabines Semo
Santcus, the "Holy Sower," was identified as a young version of
Jupiter or as a son of Jupiter instead. At Rome He became Sancus
Fidius and was later identified with Hercules.

At times the Semones were identified as Lares paganales, protective
spirits of the pagus fields. Pliny said of Tutilina that it
was "forbidden by the rules of our religion to even name (Her)
beneath a roof (H.N. 18.52)." The same was true of Semo Sanctus as it
was for Seia and Seius, Tutilina and Tutanus, and Segesta. Rustic
deities related to sowing, growing, and gathering grain remained out
in the fields. Even when Semo Sanctus was taken at Rome to be a God
of Oaths, His temple was required to have a hole in the roof so that
oaths would only be given beneath an open sky.

From what Varro says of the seed being broadcast as a sort of
offering made to the fields, we can imagine the Semones priests
offering a sacrifice, probably that of a pregnant sow, and then
casting the seeds before the sacrifice is fully extended over the
altar fire. We find something similar at Vinalia where the flamen
Dialis first orders the sacrifice made, then makes the symbolic first
harvest of a bunch of grapes, also offered in sacrifice to Jupiter,
before the viscera of the sacrificial animal was stretched over the
altar.

In making the sacrifices, we have in Servius Honorus a quote from
Fabius Pictor on "the Gods that were enumerated as the flamen Ceralis
invoked them, while making sacrifice to Telluri and Cereri,
are `Veruactorem, Reparatorem, Imporcitorem, Insitorem, Obaratorem,
Occatorem, Sarritorem, Subruncinatorem, Messorem, Conuectorem,
Conditorem, Promitorem." – Serv., ad Georg. 1, 21.

In sowing seed, whatever seed was being sown, we can also imagine the
Semones praying in this manner:

Hoc rapum mihi vico sereo.

"I sow this rape seed for myself and for my neighbors." ~ Plinius
Secunda, Historia Naturalis 24.116:

At Rome "fraters Arvales was the name given to those who perform
public rites to the end that the ploughlands may bear fruits (Varro,
Lingua Latinae 5.85)." This reference to fraters Arvales should not
be confused with the Augustan sodalitas of the same name. The
Augustan Arvales had nothing to do with blessing wheat fields, or
ambarvalia, or with any of the other things claimed of them. They
were instead an imperial cultus, an antiquarian invention, intended
solely to secure the health of the emperor. In addition to Varro,
who died two years before the Augustan Arvales were invented, there
is a reference in the 8th century manuscript of Festus by Paulus,
where it refers to Romulus and Remus as the two brothers performing
rites similar to those of the Semones. In the Augustan Age other
myths were invented to link Romulus to the Augustan fraters Arvales;
one such myth is found in Pliny. So it becomes uncertain whether
Sermones were ever at Rome, but since it was a practice that can be
traced to Sabines, it was likely introduced to Rome following the
Sabine War, and then projected back in time to Titus Tatius and
Romulus, and later still interpreted as originating with Romulus and
Remus.


Today's thought is from Heracleitus, Fragment 60:

"One and the same is the path that leads up and down."

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus T. Iulius Sabinus consules: Senatui
Populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus et omnibus: salutem plurimam
dicunt:

Iubemus vos omnes bono animo esse!

Ante diem VII Idus Februarias, populo Novo Romano Quiritibus feriae
Sementivae erunt; quando concepta fuerint, dies nefastus esto.

Consules edicunt, ut omnia sacella sacra aperiantur,
supplicationesque Anniversario Decimo Novae Romae fiant.

Datum est a. d. XV Kalendas Februarias, M. Moravio Piscino T. Iulio
Sabino consulibus, anno MMDCCLXI AUC.

___________


The Consuls M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus
sends Salutations to the Conscript Fathers and Mothers of the Senate,
to the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, and to All others:

We wish you to be of Good Cheer.

On the seventh day of February (Gregorian; 24 January Julian), seven
days before the Ides of February, the Roman people, the Quirites,
will celebrate the feriae Sementivae (Paganalia); when they shall
have begun, legal business ceases.

The Consuls proclaim that (on this day) all shrines are to be opened
and thanksgivings offered during the Tenth Anniversary of Nova Roma.

Issued in the Consulship of M. Moravius Piscinus and T. Iulius
Sabinus, 16 January 2008 CE

Salva sis, Vestal Valeria

Thank you very much for the explanation. I have heard and read an
explanation before like this. I have seen it done, with a bow
facilitating the "constant speed" of the spinning, but I haven't
tried it myself.

About the "at cost" of the supplies you need to perform your duties,
I wish that you and every one of Nova Roma's sacerdotes report their
costs to the Pontifices that they in turn may report to the
Consules. We ought to be keeping a record of such expenses, as these
amount to contributions to Nova Roma and expenses of Nova Roma.

Vale et vade in pace Vestae

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

Pontifex et flamen Carmentalis
Consul Maior



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina
<violetphearsen@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> To relight the fire in the hearth of the Temple of Vesta, were it

to go out, was by using friction, that is, the fire was rekindled by
rubbing sticks together. That is what I meant by the "traditional
way". (I do not use matches, flint or steel.) If you have never tried
this, it is not as easy as it sounds. It is quite laborious and takes
considerable patience and persistence.

> First, you must select the right kind of wood to be used. It must

be soft, neither wet or too green or have any resin on it. Aleppo
pines were common around Rome (or so I understand), so I try to use
pinewood. Plus dry pine needles make good kindling. Since I live very
close to our local mountains, getting a good supply of pine needles
is not a problem for me. However, collecting any kind of wood from
our forests is illegal. So, I go to a specialty store that provides
all sorts of woods for people to use in their fireplaces. I have been
able, at cost, to obtain good quality pinewood.

> I have found it takes an even pressure and a constant speed when

spinning the wood stick that you hold down against the other stick.
Once I see even a wisp of smoke, I gently blow on it sideways and it
usually catches on the kindling. Then I add some more kindling, the
drier the better, and voila - fire!

> Sounds easy, but it ain't! Takes practice. Took me quite a few

tries before I got the hang of it, but doing it even once made me
understand all the more (aside from the punishment and the predicted
dire consequences for Rome) why the Vestals never wanted the fire to
go out!

>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of

Vesta."

>
>

Salve Agricola

I believe Petronius is correct. Read again what you had posted as
discussion:

"To create the intercalary day, the existing ante diem sextum
Kalendas Martii (February 24) was doubled, producing ante diem bis
sextum Kalendas Martii. ... Originally, the first was regarded as bis
sextum, the intercalary day, but in 238 Censorinus stated that the
intercalary day was followed by the last five days of February, a. d.
VI, V, IV, III and pridie Kal. Mar. (which would be those days
numbered 24, 25, 26, 27, and 28 from the beginning of February in a
common year), hence he regarded the bissextum as the first half of
the doubled day. All later writers, including Macrobius about 430,
Bede in 725, and other medieval computists (calculators of Easter),
continued to state that the bissextum (bissextile day) occurred
before the last five days of February."

The last five days of the month of February in a leap year would be
25, 26, 27, 28, and 29 in our current reckoning. The author of that
paragraph seems to have forgotten that. Whereas the ancient authors
he quotes say that the bis sextile occurs first, on the 24th, which
makes better sense as the dates are being counted backwards.

Vale optime
Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
>
> Agricola Dextro sal.
>
> Thank you for taking an interest in this. However, I have followed
> this page: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates
>
> Since Pontifex Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus played a
> big part in creating that page I think that I cannot make the

changes

> you suggest without consulting him. I do urge you to visit the
> discussion page for this article at
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Talk:Roman_dates and raise your concerns
> there.
>
> Again, many thanks!
>
> Optime vale in cura deorum!
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae S.P.D.
> >
> > > I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI
> >
> > You made a mistake on month February. The bis sextus is not the

25th

> > february, but the 24th.
> >
> > You wrong wrote :
> >
> > 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart.
> > 24 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart.
> > 25 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> > 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> > 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> > 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> > 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
> >
> > The right month February is :
> >
> > 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart. Terminalia
> > 24 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> > 25 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart. Regifugium
> > 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> > 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> > 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> > 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
> >
> > The bissext follows the Terminalia and is placed where was the

old

> > month Mercedonius.
> >
> > Cura ut valeas.
> >
> > G. Petronius Dexter.
> >
>

Salve Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> M. Lucretius Agricola M. Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
>
> I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI
>
> I have three questions.
>
> 1. Shall I remove the word "Unofficial" from that page?
>

Sorry, I can't answer that one quite yet.

> 2. When you write "Fariae Latinae", do you mean "Feriae Latinae"?
>

Yes, the feriae Latinae shall be held this year on Sunday 20 April. I
hope to have a special announcement in regard to our celebration in
the weeks ahead.

> 3. Can you confirm the nundinal letter of "A"?
>

The Collegium has not taken up this issue. Pontifex Aurelianus has
raised the issue, and I agree, that a year cannot begin with the
letter "A" as it nundinal. It probably ought be changed to "B" and
the rest of the calendar adjusted accordingly. But the Collegium
hasn't even brought up the question, let alone decided an "official"
reply yet. And why wasn't this taken up last year, before
an "official" calendar ought to have been posted? You'll have to
take that up with the Pontifex Maximus.

> Finally, I will remind you that Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius
> Postumianus has the status of "wikimagister" and his technical
> wikiediting skills have my full confidence.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Optime vale in cura deorum
>

Vale et vade in pace Concordiae

M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

Pontifex et flamen Carmentalis
Consul Maior

Salve Consul!

It is a good point. Could you add it to the discussion? In any event,
we have the pontifical decretum that sets leap year the way I have
entered it.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_Pontificum_de_Calendario_Perpetuo_%28Nova_Roma%29

So it seems to me that we need to talk to the college of pontifices,
convince them and get an updated decretum. Meanwhile, we can document
everything on that talk page. Doing it there will mean that we will
always have the discussion right there in the correct context.

optime vale in cura deorum!

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Agricola
>
> I believe Petronius is correct. Read again what you had posted as
> discussion:
>
> "To create the intercalary day, the existing ante diem sextum
> Kalendas Martii (February 24) was doubled, producing ante diem bis
> sextum Kalendas Martii. ... Originally, the first was regarded as bis
> sextum, the intercalary day, but in 238 Censorinus stated that the
> intercalary day was followed by the last five days of February, a. d.
> VI, V, IV, III and pridie Kal. Mar. (which would be those days
> numbered 24, 25, 26, 27, and 28 from the beginning of February in a
> common year), hence he regarded the bissextum as the first half of
> the doubled day. All later writers, including Macrobius about 430,
> Bede in 725, and other medieval computists (calculators of Easter),
> continued to state that the bissextum (bissextile day) occurred
> before the last five days of February."
>
> The last five days of the month of February in a leap year would be
> 25, 26, 27, 28, and 29 in our current reckoning. The author of that
> paragraph seems to have forgotten that. Whereas the ancient authors
> he quotes say that the bis sextile occurs first, on the 24th, which
> makes better sense as the dates are being counted backwards.
>
> Vale optime
> Piscinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Agricola Dextro sal.
> >
> > Thank you for taking an interest in this. However, I have followed
> > this page: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Roman_dates
> >
> > Since Pontifex Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus played a
> > big part in creating that page I think that I cannot make the
> changes
> > you suggest without consulting him. I do urge you to visit the
> > discussion page for this article at
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Talk:Roman_dates and raise your concerns
> > there.
> >
> > Again, many thanks!
> >
> > Optime vale in cura deorum!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae S.P.D.
> > >
> > > > I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI
> > >
> > > You made a mistake on month February. The bis sextus is not the
> 25th
> > > february, but the 24th.
> > >
> > > You wrong wrote :
> > >
> > > 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart.
> > > 24 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart.
> > > 25 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> > > 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> > > 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> > > 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> > > 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
> > >
> > > The right month February is :
> > >
> > > 23 feb. a.d. VII Kal. Mart. Terminalia
> > > 24 feb. a.d. bis VI Kal. Mart.
> > > 25 feb. a.d. VI Kal. Mart. Regifugium
> > > 26 feb. a.d. V Kal. Mart.
> > > 27 feb. a.d. IV Kal. Mart.
> > > 28 feb. a.d. III. Kal. Mart.
> > > 29 feb. a.d. Pr. Kal. Mart.
> > >
> > > The bissext follows the Terminalia and is placed where was the
> old
> > > month Mercedonius.
> > >
> > > Cura ut valeas.
> > >
> > > G. Petronius Dexter.
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Agricola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Lucretius Agricola M. Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
> >
> > I have added the dates above to the calendar here:
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI
> >
> > I have three questions.
> >
> > 1. Shall I remove the word "Unofficial" from that page?
> >
>
> Sorry, I can't answer that one quite yet.
>
> > 2. When you write "Fariae Latinae", do you mean "Feriae Latinae"?
> >
>
> Yes, the feriae Latinae shall be held this year on Sunday 20 April. I
> hope to have a special announcement in regard to our celebration in
> the weeks ahead.
>

OK, I'll take that as canonical and fix the spelling. Other things
wait patiently.

gratias!!

Agricola

> > 3. Can you confirm the nundinal letter of "A"?
> >
>
> The Collegium has not taken up this issue. Pontifex Aurelianus has
> raised the issue, and I agree, that a year cannot begin with the
> letter "A" as it nundinal. It probably ought be changed to "B" and
> the rest of the calendar adjusted accordingly. But the Collegium
> hasn't even brought up the question, let alone decided an "official"
> reply yet. And why wasn't this taken up last year, before
> an "official" calendar ought to have been posted? You'll have to
> take that up with the Pontifex Maximus.
>
> > Finally, I will remind you that Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius
> > Postumianus has the status of "wikimagister" and his technical
> > wikiediting skills have my full confidence.
> >
> > Many thanks in advance.
> >
> > Optime vale in cura deorum
> >
>
> Vale et vade in pace Concordiae
>
> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
>
> Pontifex et flamen Carmentalis
> Consul Maior
>

Aed. cur. P. Memmius Albucius omn. sod. et dom. Factionis s.d.


Our Ludi year will begin soon. And this is a special year, Nova Roma
10th birthday's one.

Now that we know more on our public calendar, the aedilitas curulis
will be able to display our Ludi calendar for 2761 in the next two
weeks.

Last year, the Factiones made the demonstration of their involvement
and efficiency.

This year, they sure intend honoring our birthday in the most
brilliant way. This year will besides propose more Circenses than
usual, because it is a special year.

We aediles just want to remain every factio to prepare and organize
itself for our Ludi circenses.

Please, sodales Factionum, organize your famous troops !

We aediles curules just need the name and e-mail address of your
delegate, the Dominus/-a (or Caput or Praeses) Factionis, as soon as
possible, and before next February Nones.

Thanks for your understanding, and good luck to all in 2761 a.u.c.!


Valete sodales et capites,


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.

Salve,

Sorry to bring this here, but I could not find anywhere with a help
address on the main site.

I have had the same name Tiberius Antonius Romulus since about 1999 but
havent been active the past few years do to being in Germania and the
wastelands of Mesopotamia. I can't mind my name in the album or have
password sent/etc.

Does anyone know who I can got to for help on this? After I saw the
meager budget I decided I'd like to donate too, but of course want to
have my name on the donation :)

Any help much appreciated.

Salve Romule,

Welcome back!

Tiberius Antonius Romulus <chrismidwestwisconsin@...> writes:

> I can't find my name in the album or have password sent/etc.

Look now. Your census status was "disappeared" since you hadn't
responded to the last census. I've just reset it to "active." You
should now be able to see your entry in the Album Civium. It's at
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=1062

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Antonius Romulus"
<chrismidwestwisconsin@...> wrote:

> Sorry to bring this here, but I could not find anywhere with a

help address on the main site.>>>

Welcome back! I'm happy to see how old members come back home.

> I have had the same name Tiberius Antonius Romulus since about

1999 but havent been active the past few years do to being in
Germania and the wastelands of Mesopotamia. I can't mind my name in
the album or have password sent/etc.

> Does anyone know who I can got to for help on this?>>>

I saw Marinus already fixed the problem.

After I saw the meager budget I decided I'd like to donate too, but
of course want to have my name on the donation :)>>>

Consular edict about taxes will be posted at 1st February. I
encourage all people to pay their taxes and to receive the assidui
status for this year. Donations to NR are welcome anytime.

VALETE BENE,
IVL SABINVS
Consul

Salvus sis,

I, too, have seen it done with a bow, but from everything I have read about the Vestals, I do not believe they used it. I believe they simply used two sticks. The bow makes it less difficult and I would recommend anything less difficult to anyone who wants to start a fire using friction. Using just your hands is quite taxing on your palms, but I gladly make that sacrifice for Vesta. I never thought, when I became a Vestal, that I would also become a master fire starter! LOL
Actually, I just celebrated the second anniversary of my appointment as Vestal on the 11th of this month. Where does the time go...

Vale bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salva sis, Vestal Valeria

Thank you very much for the explanation. I have heard and read an
explanation before like this. I have seen it done, with a bow
facilitating the "constant speed" of the spinning, but I haven't
tried it myself.

About the "at cost" of the supplies you need to perform your duties,
I wish that you and every one of Nova Roma's sacerdotes report their
costs to the Pontifices that they in turn may report to the
Consules. We ought to be keeping a record of such expenses, as these
amount to contributions to Nova Roma and expenses of Nova Roma.

Vale et vade in pace Vestae

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

Pontifex et flamen Carmentalis
Consul Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina
<violetphearsen@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> To relight the fire in the hearth of the Temple of Vesta, were it

to go out, was by using friction, that is, the fire was rekindled by
rubbing sticks together. That is what I meant by the "traditional
way". (I do not use matches, flint or steel.) If you have never tried
this, it is not as easy as it sounds. It is quite laborious and takes
considerable patience and persistence.

> First, you must select the right kind of wood to be used. It must

be soft, neither wet or too green or have any resin on it. Aleppo
pines were common around Rome (or so I understand), so I try to use
pinewood. Plus dry pine needles make good kindling. Since I live very
close to our local mountains, getting a good supply of pine needles
is not a problem for me. However, collecting any kind of wood from
our forests is illegal. So, I go to a specialty store that provides
all sorts of woods for people to use in their fireplaces. I have been
able, at cost, to obtain good quality pinewood.

> I have found it takes an even pressure and a constant speed when

spinning the wood stick that you hold down against the other stick.
Once I see even a wisp of smoke, I gently blow on it sideways and it
usually catches on the kindling. Then I add some more kindling, the
drier the better, and voila - fire!

> Sounds easy, but it ain't! Takes practice. Took me quite a few

tries before I got the hang of it, but doing it even once made me
understand all the more (aside from the punishment and the predicted
dire consequences for Rome) why the Vestals never wanted the fire to
go out!

>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
> "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
> "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of

Vesta."

>
>

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

Last year I asked to step down as Dominus Factionis but no came
forward to take the position. Therefore I am asking for Candidate's
for the position to step up and make Praesina the Greatest
Faction(AGAIN!!) for the upcoming year.

If you are interested in serving as the Dominus Factionis for the
Greens this year, please announce your candidacy here before 11:59
p.m., Roma time, Wednesday, January 30. Election will be by poll on
the Factio Praesina list, starting on Thursday, January 31, and will
close at Midnight, Roma time, on February 4. Results will be announced
on February 5, when the new Dominus Factionis for Praesina takes
office.

Factio Praesina List:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/factiopraesina/?yguid=332827374

Valete,
Quintus Servilius Priscus

M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
Roman Gods.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods

Please come and read what our cives have contributed and contribute
youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly articles.
Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so please
visit!
bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior

producer 'Vox Romana' podcast

Salve,

A wonderful read. Will more be added? In particular, regarding Dis?

Valet,

Quinta Livia Anastasia

> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> Roman Gods.
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
>
>
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
>

Salve;
all NR citizens can add to the wiki. So please start a section on
Dis Pater! and you can use this photo archive as long as you give
them credit:
http://www.vroma.org/images/image_search.html

if you need help in using the wiki join this group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/NRWiki/

Everyone there is fantastically nice & helpful. Even for the
simplest questions, and I should know I was your typical Titia
clueless (the Roman Jane Smith;-) Now I am a devoted wiki
contributor.
bene vale
Maior

>
>
> Salve,
>
> A wonderful read. Will more be added? In particular, regarding Dis?
>
> Valet,
>
> Quinta Livia Anastasia
>
> > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category

for

> > Roman Gods.
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> >
> >
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> >
>

G. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae SPD,

> So it seems to me that we need to talk to the college of pontifices,
> convince them and get an updated decretum.

By Jove, is it so difficult to talk with the college of pontifices? It
is a good duty, an honour, to the pontifices to give the calendar at
the biginning of the new year.

I do not understand the problem.

G. Petronius Dexter.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos ament

Hodie est ante diem VIII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
est: Paganalia

Felices natalis, Quinte Valeri Callide, Tribune Plebis! Di Deaeque
dent tibi quae velis.

Paganalia continues for asecond day.

AUC 282 / 471 BCE: Plebiscitum Voleria introduces voting by tribes in
the Concilium Plebis

"The tribunes took their places on the speaker's platform on the next
day. The consuls and the nobility stood about in the Assembly to
prevent the passage of the Law. Laetorius gave orders for all, except
actual voters, to withdraw. The young patricians kept their places
and paid no attention to the tribune's viator, whereupon Laetorius
ordered some of them to be arrested. Appius insisted that the
tribunes had no jurisdiction over any but plebeians, they were not
magistrates of the whole people, but only of the plebs; even he
himself could not, according to the usage of their ancestors, remove
any man by virtue of his authority, for the formula ran, 'If it seems
good to you, Quirites, depart!' By making contemptuous remarks about
his jurisdiction, he was easily able to disconcert Laetorius. The
tribune, in a burning rage, sent his viator to the consul, the consul
sent a lictor to the tribune, exclaiming that he was a private
citizen without any magisterial authority. The tribune would have
been treated with indignity had not the whole Assembly risen angrily
to defend the tribune against the consul, whilst people rushed from
all parts of the City in excited crowds to the Forum. Appius braved
the storm with inflexible determination, and the conflict would have
ended in bloodshed had not the other consul, Quinctius, entrusted the
consulars with the duty of removing, by force if necessary, his
colleague from the Forum. He entreated the furious plebeians to be
calm, and implored the tribunes to dismiss the Assembly; they should
give their passions time to cool, delay would not deprive them of
their power, but would add prudence to their strength; the senate
would submit to the authority of the people, and the consuls to that
of the senate." ~ Titus Livius 2.56


Our thought for today, taken from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 7.49,
is for Callidus:

"Consider the past; such great changes of political supremacies. Thou
mayest foresee also the things which will be. For they will certainly
be of like form, and it is not possible that they should deviate from
the order of the things which take place now: accordingly to have
contemplated human life for forty years is the same as to have
contemplated it for ten thousand years. For what more wilt thou see?"

Salve!

All I can say is that we could collect all the evidence and put our
reasoning and discussion on that Talk page that I mentioned before and
hope that the College of Pontifices reads it and considers action.

I don't disagree with anything you have said.

optime vale!

Agricola


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

>
>
> G. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae SPD,
>
> > So it seems to me that we need to talk to the college of pontifices,
> > convince them and get an updated decretum.
>
> By Jove, is it so difficult to talk with the college of pontifices? It
> is a good duty, an honour, to the pontifices to give the calendar at
> the biginning of the new year.
>
> I do not understand the problem.
>
> G. Petronius Dexter.
>

M. Hortensia Maior G. Petronio Dextro M. Lucretio Agricolae spd;
the CP is actually the Augean Stables of Nova Roma, with
some very fine and frustrated pontiffs, but I have great faith in
Hercules, so the task most certainly will be accomplished;-)
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior

> G. Petronius Dexter M. Lucretio Agricolae SPD,
>
> > So it seems to me that we need to talk to the college of

pontifices,

> > convince them and get an updated decretum.
>
> By Jove, is it so difficult to talk with the college of pontifices?

It

> is a good duty, an honour, to the pontifices to give the calendar at
> the biginning of the new year.
>
> I do not understand the problem.
>
> G. Petronius Dexter.
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Iubeo bono animo esse.

Hodie est ante diem VII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
est:

AUC 667 / 86 BCE: Battle of Chaeronea: L Cornelius defeats Archelaus

"Sulla defeated in battle the army of the king [Mithridates VI],
which had occupied Macedonia and entered Thessalia. 100,000 enemies
were killed and the camp was captured. Later, the war was renewed
and Sulla defeated and destroyed a second army of the king.
Archelaus and the royal navy surrendered to Sulla." ~ Titus Livius,
Perioche 82.1-3

"In the battle against Lucius Sulla, Archelaus placed his scythe-
bearing chariots in front, for the purpose of throwing the enemy into
confusion; in the second line he posted the Macedonian phalanx, and
in the third line auxiliaries armed after the Roman way, with a
sprinkling of Italian runaway slaves, in whose doggedness he had the
greatest confidence. In the last line he stationed the light-armed
troops, while on the two flanks, for the purpose of enveloping the
enemy, he placed the cavalry, of whom he had a great number.

"To meet these dispositions, Sulla constructed trenches of great
breadth on each flank, and at their ends built strong redoubts. By
this device he avoided the danger of being enveloped by the enemy,
who outnumbered him in infantry and especially in cavalry. Next he
arranged a triple line of infantry, leaving intervals through which
to send, according p119to need, the light-armed troops and the
cavalry, which he placed in the rear. He then commanded the troops
behind the standards who were in the second line, to drive firmly
into the ground large numbers stakes set close together, and as the
chariots drew near, he withdrew the line of troops in front of the
standards within these stakes. Then at length he ordered the
skirmishers and light-armed troops to raise a general battle-cry and
discharge their spears. By these tactics either the chariots of the
enemy were caught among the stakes, or their drivers became panic-
stricken at the din and were driven by the javelins back upon their
own men, throwing the formation of the Macedonians into confusion. As
these gave way, Sulla pressed forward, and Archelaus met him with
cavalry, whereupon the Roman horsemen suddenly darted forth, drove
back the enemy, and achieved victory." ~ Frontius, Strategemata 3.17


Archelaus had an army of 120,000. The two accounts of the battle, in
Appian's Mithridatic Wars, Bk 6 and Plutarch's Life of Sulla, ch. 17-
19, claim that only 10,000 of the Mithridatic army survived the
battle, while Sulla's army of only 40,000 is said to have lost only
12 men.


The thought of the day is from Seneca, On Providence 5:

"Good men toil, spend, and are spent, and willingly so. They are not
dragged along by Fortune - they follow Her, and match Her every step."

G. Petronius Dexter M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano SPD,

> The Collegium has not taken up this issue. Pontifex Aurelianus has
> raised the issue, and I agree, that a year cannot begin with the
> letter "A" as it nundinal.

That is not sure. We know one real example of this change, on year 40
BC. But at this time, Rome was troubled and in the middle of the
second civil war between Octavianus, Marcus Antonius and Lepidus.
Lepidus was the Pontifex Maximus and he refused to have a market day
(with many people in Rome)on the 1rst January. He talk about an old
practice and religious scrupule but never before 40 BC the pontifices
changed the letter "A" nundinal! Never. We have not one example of
that!

For example the year 52 BC (Jules César Pontifex Maximus) was a year
with letter nundinal "A". No problem.

Caution to not put one experience on 40 BC into general use. It is
true that Macrobius say like a generalization that the Ancient Romans
did not want a market day on the kalendae Januariae, but he does not
give one example. And if he talk about an ancient use, he says by the
same that in his time we could have a market day on the 1rst january!

Nobody knows how a letter nundinal "A" can be changed because the
market days are always separated by 8 days. If the Pontifices change
the nundinal letter they change the internundinium (a week of 8 days)
and after that, in my opinion, it will be the chaos!

In the experience of 40 BC, pontifex maximus Lepidus added a day at
41 BC and take a day off on the year 40 BC after the 1rst january.
But now it is impossible to change the letter A because Collegium
Pontificum had no added a day on the year 2007.

Cura ut valeas.

G. Petronius Dexter.

In a message dated 1/25/2008 9:36:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mhoratius@... writes:

Archelaus had an army of 120,000. The two accounts of the battle, in
Appian's Mithridatic Wars, Bk 6 and Plutarch's Life of Sulla, ch. 17-
19, claim that only 10,000 of the Mithridatic army survived the
battle, while Sulla's army of only 40,000 is said to have lost only
12 men.

As a military historian, I must point out 120,000 is too much of an army.
The Greeks at their height could barely put in the field 50,000 at Plataia, and
this was against 60,000 Persians whose total numbers stretched Greece's
logistics to the breaking point.

20,000 troops is more likely for the Pontics, based on their supply situation
and transport.

The Roman army itself was four legiones of 18000 men tops. This was what
Cornelius Sulla left Rome with. However both the Aetolian league and the Attika
supplied troops to flesh out Sulla's numbers especially in horse. As for the
12 casualties, well, the Roman centre was lightly engaged, they withstood a
chariot charge, most of the fighting was on the wings.

The legend is 120,000, and legends are good, but sometimes a bit of truth
helps to understand just as well.

Valete

Q. Fabius Maximus




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

This is a call for papers, articles and artwork for next issue of An
academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman, and Persian Studies.


Mithras Reader: An academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman, and
Persian Studies is dedicated to all the religions of the classical
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Salve Hortensia

Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of date,
and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.

Vale
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> Roman Gods.
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
>
> Please come and read what our cives have contributed and contribute
> youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
articles.
> Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so please
> visit!
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
>

Salve Marce Horati,

You asked (about the Roman Gods page):

> Who wrote the introduction to that page?

Looking at the page history, I see:
02:42, 31 October 2006 Quintus Valerius Callidus (Initial update from
original site)
01:58, 24 October 2006 Marcus Octavius Gracchus (no (NR) in cat)
01:57, 24 October 2006 Marcus Octavius Gracchus (no (NR) in cat)
11:05, 7 May 2006 M. Lucretius Agricola (point link to category)
12:52, 19 April 2006 M. Lucretius Agricola (categorize)
13:22, 9 April 2006 Marcus Octavius Gracchus

So my guess is that most of the text in the introduction is stuff that
Callidus took from the old novaroma.org website. I'm not sure who
wrote that. Might have been Cassius.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

SALVE MARCE MORAVI!

The page history can show who wrote that page. I'm sure Hortensia don't know. To search about that represent losing of time as time as each contribution must be checked. The good point of wiki is that anyone can edit and changes can be done everytime. If someone has a good introduction for this page, send it to me. I will upload the page.

VALE BENE MI AMICE,
IVL SABINVS


marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
Salve Hortensia

Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of date,
and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.

Vale
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> Roman Gods.
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
>
> Please come and read what our cives have contributed and contribute
> youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
articles.
> Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so please
> visit!
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
>






"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius





---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-Salvete;
haven't a clue. As Sabinus rightly says it's far more important to
make updates. I put in the photos for the gods and I'm rewriting the
enty for Neptunus, as there is an new Italian monograph I'm reading
on his cultus. That's the greatness of the wiki!
bene valete
Maior

>
> SALVE MARCE MORAVI!
>
> The page history can show who wrote that page. I'm sure

Hortensia don't know. To search about that represent losing of time
as time as each contribution must be checked. The good point of wiki
is that anyone can edit and changes can be done everytime. If
someone has a good introduction for this page, send it to me. I will
upload the page.

>
> VALE BENE MI AMICE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
>
> marcushoratius <mhoratius@...> wrote:
> Salve Hortensia
>
> Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of

date,

> and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
> wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.
>
> Vale
> Piscinus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> > Roman Gods.
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> >
> > Please come and read what our cives have contributed and

contribute

> > youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
> articles.
> > Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so

please

> > visit!
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" -

Appius Claudius

>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile. Try it now.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Piscine;
yes, those ideas are passé. Those dated kind of theories came from
the day when scholars wanted the religio to approach monotheism as
much as possible.
bene vale
Maior



and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely

> > wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.
> >
> > Vale
> > Piscinus
> >

Agricola Piscino sal.

That was right off the old site, as I recall. Very much out of date, I
agree. Let's get to work and set it right. I'll make sure that the
page is ready for references.

optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Hortensia
>
> Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of date,
> and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
> wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.
>
> Vale
> Piscinus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> > Roman Gods.
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> >
> > Please come and read what our cives have contributed and contribute
> > youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
> articles.
> > Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so please
> > visit!
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> >
>

Salvete,

Looking more deeply, we should start at this page:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Category:Religio_Romana

The Roman Gods category is a subcategory of this one. So let's set the
higher category right first, then move to the subsidiary one.

If the Roman Gods category head matter becomes extensive, I'll split
it off to its own article and then use an include to bring the summary
back in.

As always, interested persons should leave messages on the associated
Talk/Discussion pages.

If there is interest, I'll help in setting up a Cultus Deorum Task
Force to work though these articles in a systematic way. In that case,
we should move this discussion to NRWiki.


optime valete!

Agricola



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> Agricola Piscino sal.
>
> That was right off the old site, as I recall. Very much out of date, I
> agree. Let's get to work and set it right. I'll make sure that the
> page is ready for references.
>
> optime vale!
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Hortensia
> >
> > Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of date,
> > and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
> > wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.
> >
> > Vale
> > Piscinus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category for
> > > Roman Gods.
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > >
> > > Please come and read what our cives have contributed and contribute
> > > youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
> > articles.
> > > Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so

please

> > > visit!
> > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> > > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> > >
> >
>

Salvete

I'll see if I can come up with something better. I know that Georg
Dumezil refuted Rose fairly well. I don't like Dumezil's Indo-
European theories any better than I like Rose, but on numenism
Dumezil was correct. And there was E. T. Salmon writing in 1967
against such ideas as Rose had on numenism. There is a lot of
misinformation repeated over the internet. I don't think we should
be contributing more of it.

Salmon, writing on the Samnite religion, said, "Many of the
divinities at Agnone are fully developed gods... So far as we can
see, the Samnites had had such divinities from their earliest days."

And again, "Their spiritual horizons, like those of the Romans, were
by no means bounded by a world of vague impersonal powers (i. e. H.
J. Rose)."

"Mythology, it is true, with its cosmogony, celestial marriages, and
geneologies was as foreign to the native Samnite religion as to the
native Roman. The Samnite religion was not one handed down from
poets and philosophers as the Roman pontifex maximus Mucius Scaevola
might have put it. But it was a religion organized in accordance
with nature and therefore appropriate for a people with a long
tradition, and their anthropomorphic deities had complete and
individual personalities and performed recognized and well defined
functions."

And elsewhere Salmon argued, "It might seem reasonable to argue that
there was a regular progression of ideas in the course of which an
animistic conception of vague and shadowy spirits ultimately gave way
to an anthropomorphic notion of firm and definite deities. Dionysius
of Halicarnassus suggests that something of the sort occurred on the
Capitoline Hill at Rome and Tacitus' comment on the Germans come to
mind (Germania 9.4). But, while neat and to outward seeming logical,
such a tidy development is mostly imaginary. From the earliest days
the Samnites had clearly defined gods as well as half gods and
numina, but these latter did not invariably antedate the former. The
exact degree of anthropomorphism in their religion, before Greek and
other influences permeated it, cannot be determined; unquestionably
there always was some. Belief in specific individual gods is not
incompatible with an animistic attitude."

Salmon here I think was writing about two years before Rose last
wrote? And then Dumezil around that same time was showing that
numina and the indigitamenta were actually outgrowths of Roman
concepts on the Gods, and not the other way around as Rose claimed.
The ambiguous power or presence called a numen is merely a residual
presence of a deity. An indigitamentum is an impersonal aspect of a
deity wielding a particular power; Dumezil equating the development
of the notion of indigitamenta with the development of imperial
accensi, and he noted how such ideas appeared very late in the
record, among Christian authors for the most part, and even notions
of numina as a prerequisite to indigitamenta are found relatively
late and rarely, near the end of the Republic, increasing in the
number of times mention and in the development of the conception of
numina during the early imperial period.

And then of course it is now forty years later. We have since gained
more data and learned more on how the different Italic tribes and the
Latins viewed their deities. There is a lot that can be said that
would surely be better than repeated misinformation based in the
refuted notions of the past.

Valete
Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<wm_hogue@...> wrote:

>
> Agricola Piscino sal.
>
> That was right off the old site, as I recall. Very much out of

date, I

> agree. Let's get to work and set it right. I'll make sure that the
> page is ready for references.
>
> optime vale!
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@>

wrote:

> >
> > Salve Hortensia
> >
> > Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out of

date,

> > and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is absolutely
> > wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the 1960's.
> >
> > Vale
> > Piscinus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a category

for

> > > Roman Gods.
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > >
> > > Please come and read what our cives have contributed and

contribute

> > > youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
> > articles.
> > > Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues, so

please

> > > visit!
> > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> > > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> > >
> >
>

Salvete:
please do Piscine, I know just about 0 about archaic Italian
religion. Other than that there were early Greek influences via
Campania and Magna Graecia. And those Etruscans were pretty
sophisticated and they come from Anatolia. These new dna studies are
amazing.
valete
Maior

>
> Salvete
>
> I'll see if I can come up with something better. I know that

Georg

> Dumezil refuted Rose fairly well. I don't like Dumezil's Indo-
> European theories any better than I like Rose, but on numenism
> Dumezil was correct. And there was E. T. Salmon writing in 1967
> against such ideas as Rose had on numenism. There is a lot of
> misinformation repeated over the internet. I don't think we

should

> be contributing more of it.
>
> Salmon, writing on the Samnite religion, said, "Many of the
> divinities at Agnone are fully developed gods... So far as we can
> see, the Samnites had had such divinities from their earliest

days."

>
> And again, "Their spiritual horizons, like those of the Romans,

were

> by no means bounded by a world of vague impersonal powers (i. e.

H.

> J. Rose)."
>
> "Mythology, it is true, with its cosmogony, celestial marriages,

and

> geneologies was as foreign to the native Samnite religion as to

the

> native Roman. The Samnite religion was not one handed down from
> poets and philosophers as the Roman pontifex maximus Mucius

Scaevola

> might have put it. But it was a religion organized in accordance
> with nature and therefore appropriate for a people with a long
> tradition, and their anthropomorphic deities had complete and
> individual personalities and performed recognized and well defined
> functions."
>
> And elsewhere Salmon argued, "It might seem reasonable to argue

that

> there was a regular progression of ideas in the course of which an
> animistic conception of vague and shadowy spirits ultimately gave

way

> to an anthropomorphic notion of firm and definite deities.

Dionysius

> of Halicarnassus suggests that something of the sort occurred on

the

> Capitoline Hill at Rome and Tacitus' comment on the Germans come

to

> mind (Germania 9.4). But, while neat and to outward seeming

logical,

> such a tidy development is mostly imaginary. From the earliest

days

> the Samnites had clearly defined gods as well as half gods and
> numina, but these latter did not invariably antedate the former.

The

> exact degree of anthropomorphism in their religion, before Greek

and

> other influences permeated it, cannot be determined;

unquestionably

> there always was some. Belief in specific individual gods is not
> incompatible with an animistic attitude."
>
> Salmon here I think was writing about two years before Rose last
> wrote? And then Dumezil around that same time was showing that
> numina and the indigitamenta were actually outgrowths of Roman
> concepts on the Gods, and not the other way around as Rose

claimed.

> The ambiguous power or presence called a numen is merely a

residual

> presence of a deity. An indigitamentum is an impersonal aspect of

a

> deity wielding a particular power; Dumezil equating the

development

> of the notion of indigitamenta with the development of imperial
> accensi, and he noted how such ideas appeared very late in the
> record, among Christian authors for the most part, and even

notions

> of numina as a prerequisite to indigitamenta are found relatively
> late and rarely, near the end of the Republic, increasing in the
> number of times mention and in the development of the conception

of

> numina during the early imperial period.
>
> And then of course it is now forty years later. We have since

gained

> more data and learned more on how the different Italic tribes and

the

> Latins viewed their deities. There is a lot that can be said that
> would surely be better than repeated misinformation based in the
> refuted notions of the past.
>
> Valete
> Piscinus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <wm_hogue@> wrote:
> >
> > Agricola Piscino sal.
> >
> > That was right off the old site, as I recall. Very much out of
> date, I
> > agree. Let's get to work and set it right. I'll make sure that

the

> > page is ready for references.
> >
> > optime vale!
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Hortensia
> > >
> > > Who wrote the introduction to that page? It is terribly out

of

> date,
> > > and the notions it purports, from Rose on numina, is

absolutely

> > > wrong. I thought the ideas of Rose were dismissed in the

1960's.

> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Piscinus
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > M. Hortensia quiritibus spd;
> > > > our excellent wikimagister Agricola has created a

category

> for
> > > > Roman Gods.
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > > >
> > > > Please come and read what our cives have contributed and
> contribute
> > > > youself to this great resource for all cultores of scholarly
> > > articles.
> > > > Almost all of them have beautiful photos of Roman statues,

so

> please
> > > > visit!
> > > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > > >
> > > > producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Valetudo quod fortuna;

Well, these tired eyes perked up a bit.

The mention of Samnite religion and Agnone are of interest.

I can trace one family line back to the 1540's to a Maestro Giovanni
di Agnone. He was a goldsmith.

I have asked this question before, quite some time ago...what
resources exist to learn about the indigenous religions of the Italian
peninsula, besides the Etruscans and Latins?

--
=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

I have been having dizziness and lightheadedness for several months.

The culmination of this were blackouts when I got up for work the day
before and 2 days after the Ides of this month.

Both days: my alarm rang at 04:20; I hit the snooze bar, sat up,
turned off the switch...next thing I knew I was face down on the
floor. No warning, just lights out. First episode I was just a
little shaken up. Second one, the right side of my forhead looked
like someone had taken a belt sander to it, plus my neach muscles
aches. Both times it felt like someone was holding a hot iron across
the back and left side of my head.

I have been seeing my doctor (both after the second episode and for a
physical) and other medical help.

Diabetes and thyroid problems have been ruled out. My liver is in
good shape, save for a small elevation in bilirubin. Total
cholesterol is a little high (HDL - 1 pt low, LDL - 31 pts high,
triglycerides - normal). Blood pressure was up, lungs were clear and
neck blood vessels sounded ok.

I did have a stress test: blood pressure IS a bit high, but not in the
danger zone, blood oxygen was good, heart sounded fine, my heart
recovery after the treadmill exercise was very good, but I did have a
minor ventricular arrhythmia. The took ultrasound pictures of my
heart before and after the stress, but I won't have the results until
next Tuesday.

Next step is a chest, neck and head MRI to map the blood flow therein...

Ah well, I still breath and can communicate, so it's still a good day!

Watch out for yourselves folks.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis - Poet

Salve mi care Venator

The answer is few. In addition to the Tavolo Agnone and those of
Iguvium, there are some few inscriptions in the Italic languages, or
inscriptions that mix Latin with forms of Italic languages. Then
there are some references in the usuaul Roman sources that we use.

One example of an inscription is the Tabula Veliterna on which
appears the name of the Goddess Declona or Declune. She is not known
by any other source, and nothing other than Her name among the
Volscii is known. Violating the rule of Her sanctuary required a
sacrifice of wine, a cow, and an ass. The last is an unusual
sacrifice, the ass being associated otherwise only with Vesta and the
Nympha Lotis.

In the Roman era of each individual location, that is, a time after
which the Romans would have taken over the place, there is some
remnant of Italic Gods remaining as local deities. Just as in Gaul
or Germania or later in Syria, where local deities were adopted by
Romans, local deities of Italy were adopted by Romans, especially if
the Italic shrine was known for its healing powers. That is how
Feronia survived, or how Mefitis Utiana survived at Potenza. So
although there is not a lot of resources available there are
scattered references.

Here are some books I have used. I also use online transcriptions of
inscriptions when I can find them. I suppose you could call me a
source too now as I wrote the entries on Italic deities for the
update of the U. of Ottawa "Encyclopedia of Gods and Goddesses," and
some of my entries have made it to the internet.

Bonetti, C. and Sacchi, P. 1939. "Il tempio della dea Mefite a
Cremona" in "Cremona," Rivista mensile.
Campanelli, A. and Faustoferri A. (edd.), 1997. I Luoghi degli dei.
Pescara.
Cooley, A (ed.), 2000. The Epigraphic Landscape of Roman Italy.
London.
Lejeune, M. 1975. "Inscriptiones de Rossano di Vaglio," Rendiconti
delle classe di Scienze, Morali, Storiche e Filologiche dell'Academia
Nazionale dei Lincei 8.30, pp. 319-339.
Magaldi, E. 1948. Lucania Romana, Part 1. Roma: Instituto Studi
Romani.
Marandino, R. 1968. Mefite in "Hirpinia." Quaderno dell'Assoc.
Archeol. Irpina
Orlandi, V. and Morello, A. 2000. "Ex Voto: Speranza e sofferenza
dagli antichi santuari della Valle del Comino." Atina: Diana.
Pisani, V. 1953. Le lingue dell'Italla antica oltre il latino.
Torino: Rosembero-Sellier
Poultney, J. W. 1985. The Bronze Tablets of Iguvium. Baltimore, Md:
Scholars Publishing
Salmon, E. T. 1967. Samnium and the Samnites. Cambridge: Cambridge
University Press.
Tabula Rapenensis of Chieta, Abruzzo.
Tabula Veliterna
Wilkey, J. B. 1994. The Iguvium Tablet.

Cura ut valeas
Piscinus


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stefn Ullerius Venator
Piperbarbus" <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> Valetudo quod fortuna;
>
> Well, these tired eyes perked up a bit.
>
> The mention of Samnite religion and Agnone are of interest.
>
> I can trace one family line back to the 1540's to a Maestro Giovanni
> di Agnone. He was a goldsmith.
>
> I have asked this question before, quite some time ago...what
> resources exist to learn about the indigenous religions of the

Italian

> peninsula, besides the Etruscans and Latins?
>
> --
> =========================================
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poet
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
> http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
> http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>

Salve Venator!

You are one of the fundamental citizens , You always have stood up
for the Res Publica and i have never seen You in any conflict.

I will include You in my prayers and hope that this is just a minor
problem. Please come back when You know more!

>Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;
>
>I have been having dizziness and lightheadedness for several months.
>
>The culmination of this were blackouts when I got up for work the day
>before and 2 days after the Ides of this month.
>
>Both days: my alarm rang at 04:20; I hit the snooze bar, sat up,
>turned off the switch...next thing I knew I was face down on the
>floor. No warning, just lights out. First episode I was just a
>little shaken up. Second one, the right side of my forhead looked
>like someone had taken a belt sander to it, plus my neach muscles
>aches. Both times it felt like someone was holding a hot iron across
>the back and left side of my head.
>
>I have been seeing my doctor (both after the second episode and for a
>physical) and other medical help.
>
>Diabetes and thyroid problems have been ruled out. My liver is in
>good shape, save for a small elevation in bilirubin. Total
>cholesterol is a little high (HDL - 1 pt low, LDL - 31 pts high,
>triglycerides - normal). Blood pressure was up, lungs were clear and
>neck blood vessels sounded ok.
>
>I did have a stress test: blood pressure IS a bit high, but not in the
>danger zone, blood oxygen was good, heart sounded fine, my heart
>recovery after the treadmill exercise was very good, but I did have a
>minor ventricular arrhythmia. The took ultrasound pictures of my
>heart before and after the stress, but I won't have the results until
>next Tuesday.
>
>Next step is a chest, neck and head MRI to map the blood flow therein...
>
>Ah well, I still breath and can communicate, so it's still a good day!
>
>Watch out for yourselves folks.
>
>=========================================
>In amicitia quod fides -
>Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
>Civis - Poet

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sitis

Hodie est ante diem VI Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:
dies natalis aedis Castorum et Pollucis; feriae Liberi

"Bacchus, inventor of vines, may you arrive full of wines,
may you pour forth the sweet liquid, to be compared with nectar,
and make the old pleasant, and turned to another use,
may it not lead harsh flavor to our spiteful veins."
~ L. Annaeus Florus, Carmina 2

AUC 851 / 98 CE: Death of Emperor M. Cocceius Nerva

AUC 304 / 449 BCE: Battle of Lake Regillus and the vow of a Temple
for Castor Castorisque

"On this sixth day before the approaching Kalends, a temple was
dedicated to the Dioscuri. Brothers of the divine race founded it for
those divine brothers, by Juturna's lake." ~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti
1.705-708

One of the very oldest examples of Latin, written right to left, is a
dedication of an implement to Castor and Pollux at Lavinium (CIL
1.2833: Castorei Podlouqueique qurois). The Temple of Castor and
Pollux at Rome was originally vowed in 499 BCE by dictator Aulus
Postumius during the Battle of Lake Regillus, and it was dedicated in
484 BCE near the fountain of Juturna in the southeast corner of the
Forum. Ovid, it would seem, refers instead to the rededication of the
Temple of Castor and Pollux in 6 CE by Tiberius, in which he included
his deceased brother's name Drusus in his inscription. Thus
the "brothers of the divine race" are Tiberius and Drusus, who
rededicated the temple to "those divine brothers," Castor and
Pollux.

"At Lake Regillus, for instance, in the war with the Latins, when
Aulus Postumius, the dictator, was engaged in battle with Octavius
Mamilius of Tusculum, Castor and Pollux were seen to fight in our
lines on horseback, and within more recent memory the same sons of
Tyndareus brought news of the defeat of Perseus. For Publius
Vatinius, the grandfather of our young contemporary of that name,
when coming to Rome by night from the prefecture of Reate, was told
by two young men on white horses that Perseus had that day been taken
captive. He carried the news to the senate, and was at first thrown
into prison on the charge of having made an unfounded declaration on
a matter of state importance; but afterwards, when a despatch sent by
Paulus agreed in the same day, the senate granted him land and
exemption from military service." ~ M. Tullius Cicero, De Natura
Deorum 2.6

AUC / 499 BCE: Battle of Lake Regillus

"The Latin war which had been threatening for some years now at last
broke out. A. Postumius, the Dictator, and T. Aebutius, Master of the
Horse, advanced with a large force of infantry and cavalry to the
Lake Regillus in the district of Tusculum and came upon the main army
of the enemy. On hearing that the Tarquins were in the army of the
Latins, the passions of the Romans were so roused that they
determined to engage at once. The battle that followed was more
obstinately and desperately fought than any previous ones had been.
For the commanders not only took their part in directing the action,
they fought personally against each other, and hardly one of the
leaders in either army, with the exception of the Roman Dictator,
left the field unwounded. Tarquinius Superbus, though now enfeebled
by age, spurred his horse against Postumius, who in the front of the
line was addressing and forming his men. He was struck in the side
and carried off by a body of his followers into a place of safety.
Similarly on the other wing Aebutius, Master of the Horse, directed
his attack against Octavius Mamilius; the Tusculan leader saw him
coming and rode at him full speed. So terrific was the shock that
Aebutius' arm was pierced, Mamilius was speared in the breast, and
led off by the Latins into their second line. Aebutius, unable to
hold a weapon with his wounded arm, retired from the fighting. The
Latin leader, in no way deterred by his wound, infused fresh energy
into the combat, for, seeing that his own men were wavering, he
called up the cohort of Roman exiles, who were led by Lucius
Tarquinius. The loss of country and fortune made them fight all the
more desperately; for a short time they restored the battle, and the
Romans who were opposed to them began to give ground.

"M. Valerius, the brother of Publicola, catching sight of the fiery
young Tarquin conspicuous in the front line, dug spurs into his horse
and made for him with leveled lance, eager to enhance the pride of
his house, that the family who boasted of having expelled the
Tarquins might have the glory of killing them. Tarquin evaded his foe
by retiring behind his men. Valerius, riding headlong into the ranks
of the exiles, was run through by a spear from behind. This did not
check the horse's speed, and the Roman sank dying to the ground, his
arms falling upon him. When the Dictator Postumius saw that one of
his principal officers had fallen, and that the exiles were rushing
on furiously in a compact mass whilst his men were shaken and giving
ground, he ordered his own cohort -a picked force who formed his
bodyguard-to treat any of their own side whom they saw in flight as
enemy. Threatened in front and rear the Romans turned and faced the
foe, and closed their ranks. The Dictator's cohort, fresh in mind and
body, now came into action and attacked the exhausted exiles with
great slaughter. Another single combat between the leaders took
place; the Latin commander saw the cohort of exiles almost hemmed in
by the Roman Dictator, and hurried to the front with some maniples of
the reserves. T. Herminius saw them coming, and recognized Mamilius
by his dress and arms. He attacked the enemies' commander much more
fiercely than the Master of the Horse had previously done, so much
so, in fact, that he killed him by a single spear-thrust through his
side. Whilst despoiling the body he himself was struck by a javelin,
and after being carried back to the camp, expired whilst his wound
was being dressed. Then the Dictator hurried up to the cavalry and
appealed to them to relieve the infantry, who were worn out with the
struggle, by dismounting and fighting on foot. They obeyed, leaped
from their horses, and protecting themselves with their shields,
fought in front of the standards. The infantry recovered their
courage at once when they saw the flower of the nobility fighting on
equal terms and sharing the same dangers with themselves. At last the
Latins were forced back, wavered, and finally broke their ranks. The
cavalry had their horses brought up that they might commence the
pursuit, the infantry followed. It is said that the Dictator,
omitting nothing that could secure divine or human aid, vowed, during
the battle, a temple to Castor and promised rewards to those who
should be the first and second to enter the enemies' camp. Such was
the ardor that the Romans displayed that in the same charge which
routed the enemy they carried their camp. Thus was the battle fought
at Lake Regillus. The Dictator and the Master of the Horse returned
in triumph to the City." ~ Titus Livius 2.19-20


"When the dictator A. Postumius and the Tusculan leader Mamilius
Octavius clashed at Lake Regillus in great strength and for some time
neither army gave ground, Castor and Pollux, appearing as champions
of Rome, totally routed the enemy force.

"Likewise in the Macedonian War P. Vatienus, a man belonging to the
prefecture of Reate, traveling towards Rome by night thought that two
exceptionally handsome young men on white horses met him and
announced that on the previous day King Perses had been taken
prisoner by Paullus. When he informed the senate of this, he was
thrown into a jail as having flouted its majesty and grandeur with
idle talk. But after a dispatch from Paullus made it clear that
Perses had been taken prisoner that day, he was released from custody
and given land and exemption from military service, too.

"Castor and Pollux were found vigilant on behalf of the Empire of the
Roman People on another occasion when They were seen washing the
sweat from Themselves and Their mounts at the pool of Juturna and
Their temple adjoining the spring was found open though unbarred by
no man's hand." ~ Valerius Maximus 1.8.1.a-c

"In our early writings neither do Roman women swear by Hercules nor
the men by Castor. But why the women did not swear by Hercules is
evident, since they abstained from sacrificing to Hercules. On the
other hand, why the men did not swear by Castor in oaths is not easy
to say. Nowhere, then, is it possible to find an instance, among
good writers, either woman saying 'me Hercle,' or a man say 'me
Castor.' But 'Edepol,' which is an oath sworn by Pollux, is common
to both man and woman, However, Marcus Cato asserts that the
earliest men were wont to swear neither by Castor nor Pollux, but
that this oath was used by women alone and was taken from the
initiations into the Eleusian mysteries; that gradually, however,
through ignorance of ancient usage, men began to say, 'edepol' and
thus it became a customary expression; but that the use of 'me
Castor' by a man appears in no ancient writing." ~ Gellius, Noctes
Atticae 9.6


Our thought for today is taken from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 9.6:

"Your present opinion founded on understanding, and your present
conduct directed towards social good, and your present disposition of
contentment with everything that happens – that is enough."

Salve mi Venator

ooh, I hate those smack downs, especially to concrete floors as i was
having. But then it turned out that mine were seizures caused by a
side effect of the medication I was on. So it was straightened out
after a few head bangings. Minor adjustments to better living
through chemistry.

Well, take care old friend. It doesn't sound yet like anything too
serious.

Di Deaeque te ament
Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stefn Ullerius Venator
Piperbarbus" <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;
>
> I have been having dizziness and lightheadedness for several months.
>
> The culmination of this were blackouts when I got up for work the

day

> before and 2 days after the Ides of this month.
>
> Both days: my alarm rang at 04:20; I hit the snooze bar, sat up,
> turned off the switch...next thing I knew I was face down on the
> floor. No warning, just lights out. First episode I was just a
> little shaken up. Second one, the right side of my forhead looked
> like someone had taken a belt sander to it, plus my neach muscles
> aches. Both times it felt like someone was holding a hot iron

across

> the back and left side of my head.
>
> I have been seeing my doctor (both after the second episode and for

a

> physical) and other medical help.
>
> Diabetes and thyroid problems have been ruled out. My liver is in
> good shape, save for a small elevation in bilirubin. Total
> cholesterol is a little high (HDL - 1 pt low, LDL - 31 pts high,
> triglycerides - normal). Blood pressure was up, lungs were clear

and

> neck blood vessels sounded ok.
>
> I did have a stress test: blood pressure IS a bit high, but not in

the

> danger zone, blood oxygen was good, heart sounded fine, my heart
> recovery after the treadmill exercise was very good, but I did have

a

> minor ventricular arrhythmia. The took ultrasound pictures of my
> heart before and after the stress, but I won't have the results

until

> next Tuesday.
>
> Next step is a chest, neck and head MRI to map the blood flow

therein...

>
> Ah well, I still breath and can communicate, so it's still a good

day!

>
> Watch out for yourselves folks.
>
> =========================================
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Civis - Poet
>

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.

I support the comments of C. Petronius on the subject of this year's nundinal letter. It is and can only be 'A'. The pontifices have no power to change it, for the first nundinae of the year must inevitably fall on the eighth day after the last nundinae of the previous year, and the next nundinae must fall on the eighth day after the first, and so on forever.

The only way to avoid having the nundinae fall on the first day of this year would have been, as Dexter says, for the pontifices to add one or more days to, or (possibly) remove one or more days from, last year. That is how it was always done in the old republic. But, as Dexter also says, it is too late for that. We have already had the first day of this year, and it was the eighth day after the previous nundinae, so any damage has already been done.

There are, as far as I can see, only two things for us now to do. First, we can ask why, for the last couple of years, the pontifices have failed fix the year's calendar until the year had already begun. Secondly, those of us who believe in the old tradition can brace ourselves for a bad year for the republic.



__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Apollonius Cordus"
<a_apollonius_cordus@...> wrote:

>
> A. Apollonius omnibus sal.
>
> I support the comments of C. Petronius on the subject of this year's

nundinal letter. It is and can only be 'A'. The pontifices have no
power to change it, for the first nundinae of the year must inevitably
fall on the eighth day after the last nundinae of the previous year,
and the next nundinae must fall on the eighth day after the first, and
so on forever.

>
> The only way to avoid having the nundinae fall on the first day of

this year would have been, as Dexter says, for the pontifices to add
one or more days to, or (possibly) remove one or more days from, last
year. That is how it was always done in the old republic. But, as
Dexter also says, it is too late for that. We have already had the
first day of this year, and it was the eighth day after the previous
nundinae, so any damage has already been done.

>
> There are, as far as I can see, only two things for us now to do.

First, we can ask why, for the last couple of years, the pontifices
have failed fix the year's calendar until the year had already begun.
Secondly, those of us who believe in the old tradition can brace
ourselves for a bad year for the republic.

>

Salve
as one who believes in the old tradition, before 153 bc was not the
new year started on March 15 ? and if so why do we not use it as NR
new year?

Vale
Marcus Cornelius Felix

Ex officio praetorum:

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Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome. All users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to the Nova Roma mailing list. Violations of these rules will result in corrective action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction of posting privileges for citizens.


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II. Topics of discussion

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Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this kind must be clearly marked as �off topic�.



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Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.

Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.

When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.

Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may be different.

Recognize that people can agree to disagree.

Speak and write for yourself, not others.



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The following are forbidden:

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Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those beliefs, is off limits.



This edict takes effect immediately.



Given under our hands this 20th day of January 2761 from the founding of Roma



M. Curiatius Complutensis

M.Iulius Severus



Praetores Novae Romae

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.

A. Apollonius and C. Petronius have written that the CP cannot change the
nundinal day letter because the first of the year has come and gone. That if
the CP changes it now then we will have chaos and a bad year for the Republic.
With all due respect, I have been in Nova Roma for nearly seven years and I
can honestly say that the nundinal day (or lack thereof) had very little to
do with the chaos that our organization has suffered from during that time.

I will admit that since the year has already begun and the CP did not
declare the nundinal day, it would be a bit late to do it now. However, I would
like to point out that the CP has already begun to clean house (or stables) by
voting to put our liturgical calendar back in keeping with the Julian system.
It still has a long way to go to make all the necessary adjustments to
insure that the Sacra et Religio are more in keeping with the historically
correct methods.

Keep in mind that the CP is still open to receiving applications for those
who wish to become a pontifex or flamen; including those who might have
previously held a sacred office and resigned it. Keep in mind that anyone who
fulfills the basic requirements may apply to become a sacerdos. The
reconstruction of the Religio and the cults of Dii Immortales, Di Indigetes, Di
Consentes, and Di Inferi are jobs that are open to anyone who truly wants to make a
contribution.

Based on the example of M. Tullius Cicero, we are all aware that a belief in
the Gods is not essential to be of service to Nova Roma or to hold a sacred
office. If a qualified applicant who has shown that he or she is willing to
work with the CP and their fellow citizens wants a position, I am willing to
review their application with an open mind.

Let us not get sidetracked by the stumbles that are made as we move forward
because the important point to remember is not the stumble itself but the
forward movement toward a more correct reconstruction and restoration of the
Religio Romana.

Valete.



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus M. Cornelius Felix sal.

The CP is has recently voted to place the movable feriae back on the Julian
calendar in hopes of making our liturgical year more in keeping with the
calendar from the end of the Republic. It is possible to do this without making
too many adjustments to the existing system by which the rest of the Western
World observes the calendar. Members of many of the Orthodox churches live
their day to day lives as students and workers by the Gregorian calendar and
their religious lives by the Julian.

However, it would be very difficult to make the necessary changes to move
the beginning of the Nova Roman new year back to March. We have many laws in
place that would require changes to fall in line with your suggestion. I am
not saying that it is not a possibility but it is definitely something that I
would consider of tertiary importance compared to other projects that the CP
will have to work on in the next couple of years.

If you are really and truly interested in such an action, I would suggest
that you write up a proposal that includes all the leges that will be necessary
to be changed to enact such an action and turn it over to one of the consuls
for presentation to the Senate. Of course, you will also need to include
changes necessary to any SCs, edicta, and decreta that would also be needed
along with changes to the NR Wiki. I know that you are not employed and are
currently disabled, so I am sure that if you are serious about your proposal,
you can probably knock it together in about six to eight months.

Vale.



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus M. Cornelius Felix sal.
>
> The CP is has recently voted to place the movable feriae back on the

Julian

> calendar in hopes of making our liturgical year more in keeping with

the

> calendar from the end of the Republic. It is possible to do this

without making

> too many adjustments to the existing system by which the rest of the

Western

> World observes the calendar. Members of many of the Orthodox

churches live

> their day to day lives as students and workers by the Gregorian

calendar and

> their religious lives by the Julian.
>
> However, it would be very difficult to make the necessary changes to

move

> the beginning of the Nova Roman new year back to March. We have

many laws in

> place that would require changes to fall in line with your

suggestion. I am

> not saying that it is not a possibility but it is definitely

something that I

> would consider of tertiary importance compared to other projects

that the CP

> will have to work on in the next couple of years.
>
> If you are really and truly interested in such an action, I would

suggest

> that you write up a proposal that includes all the leges that will

be necessary

> to be changed to enact such an action and turn it over to one of the

consuls

> for presentation to the Senate. Of course, you will also need to

include

> changes necessary to any SCs, edicta, and decreta that would also be

needed

> along with changes to the NR Wiki. I know that you are not employed

and are

> currently disabled, so I am sure that if you are serious about your

proposal,

> you can probably knock it together in about six to eight months.
>
> Vale.
>
>

Salve
well as soon as cato and I get done with the other proposals he said
he would help me with WRT my priesthood offices , then i will start on
that. so I should have a proposal on moving us back to the old roman
new year say by nov? I should think, I know that that would not give
time to do everthing so on thinking about it I think the move could be
done over a two time space.

Salvete

As part of the push to have all the main page content up to date in
all languages, could I ask that those able contribute caption
translations for the main page photo rotation? The page is here:
http://novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData

I think the procedure will be clear to those who look there. If not,
contact me for instructions.

Many thanks

Agricola

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodiant.

Hodie est ante diem V Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:
Victoriae Parthicae

AUC 871 / 98 CE: Dies imperii: Accession on M. Ulpius Nerva Traianus
as emperor.

AUC 951 / 198 CE: Victory of Septimius Severus over the Parthians.

"For the very great Parthian victory of divus Severus and for the
accession of divus Traianus, to Victoria Parthica a cow, to divus
Traianus an ox." ~ Military calendar on papyrus from Dura Europa


Throwing Forward the Standards

"In the battle in which King Tarquinius encountered the Sabines,
Servius Tullius, then a young man, noticing that the standard-bearers
fought halfheartedly, seized a standard and hurled it into the ranks
of the enemy. To recover it, the Romans fought so furiously that they
not only regained the standard, but also won the day." ~ Frontius,
Strategemata 8.1


AUC 307 / 446 BCE: In the Hernici and Aequi War

"The consul Furius Agrippa, when on one occasion his flank gave way,
snatched a military standard from a standard-bearer and hurled it
into the hostile ranks of the Hernici and Aequi. By this act the day
was saved, for the Romans with the greatest eagerness pressed forward
to recapture the standard." ~ Frontius, Strategemata 8.2

"The right wing gave more trouble. Here Agrippa, whose age and
strength made him fearless, seeing that things were going better in
all parts of the field than with him, seized standards from the
standard-bearers and advanced with them himself, some he even began
to throw amongst the masses of the enemy. Roused at the fear and
disgrace of losing them, his men made a fresh charge on the enemy,
and in all directions the Romans were equally successful." ~ Titus
Livius 3.70


AUC 322 / 431 BCE: In the Faliscan War

"The consul Titus Quinctius Capitolinus hurled a standard into the
midst of the hostile ranks of the Faliscans and commanded his troops
to regain it." ~ Frontius, Strategemata 8.3

"Messius with a body of their bravest troops charged through heaps of
slain and was carried on to the Volscian camp, which was not yet
taken; the entire army followed. The consul followed them up in their
disordered flight as far as the stockade and began to attack the
camp, whilst the Dictator brought up his troops to the other side of
it. The storming of the camp was just as furious as the battle had
been. It is recorded that the consul actually threw a standard inside
the stockade to make the soldiers more eager to assault it, and in
endeavouring to recover it the first breach was made. When the
stockade was torn down and the Dictator had now carried the fighting
into the camp, the enemy began everywhere to throw away their arms
and surrender." ~ Titus Livius 4.29


AUC 367 / 386 BCE: In the Volscian-Latin War

"Marcus Furius Camillus, military tribune with consular power, on one
occasion when his troops held back, seized a standard-bearer by the
hand and dragged him into the hostile ranks of the Volscians and
Latins, whereupon the rest were shamed into following." ~ Frontius,
Strategemata 8.4

"Then, after sounding the charge, he sprang from his horse and,
catching hold of the nearest standard-bearer, he hurried with him
against the enemy, exclaiming at the same time: 'On, soldier, with
the standard!' When they saw Camillus, weakened as he was by age,
charging in person against the enemy, they all raised the battlecry
and rushed forward, shouting in all directions, 'Follow the General!'
It is stated that by Camillus' orders the standard was flung into the
enemy's lines in order to incite the men of the front rank to recover
it." ~ Titus Livius 6.8


AUC 541 / 212 BCE: Siege of Beneventum

"To pursue further the action of human valor; when Hannibal was
beseiging Capua with a Roman army inside, Vibius Accaus, Praefect of
a Paelignian cohort, flunghis standard across the Punic rampart
pronouncing a curse on himself and his comrads should the enemy get
possession of the ensign, and dashed forward at the head of the
cohort to take it. When he saw that, Valerius Flaccus, a Tribune of
Legio III, turned to his men, and said, 'I see we came here to be
spectators to the valor of others. But far be it that dishonor from
our blood that we Romans should yield in glory to Latins. I for one
ppray to die with distinction or dare with a happy ending. Even on
my own I am ready to run ahead.' Hearing his words, Centurian
Pedanius pulled up his standard and holding it in his hand,
said, 'This will soon be with me inside the enemy's ramparts; so
follow me those who don't want to see it taken.' And he broke into
the Punic camp with the standard and drew the whole legion with him.
So the rash courage of three men cost Hannibal, who a little earlier
thought to be master of Capua, the possession of his own camp." ~
Valerius Maximus 3.2.20


AUC 587/ 168 BCE: In the Third Macedonian War

"Salvius, the Pelignian, did the same in the Persian War." ~
Frontius, Strategemata 8.5

"The Romans, when they attacked the Macedonian phalanx, were unable
to force a passage, and Salvius, the commander of the Pelignians,
snatched the standard of his company and hurled it in among the
enemy. Then the Pelignians, since among the Italians it is an
unnatural and flagrant thing to abandon a standard, rushed on towards
the place where it was, and dreadful losses were inflicted and
suffered on both sides." ~ Plutarch, Life of Aemilius 20.1-2


Our thought for today is from Seneca, Constantia 5.5

"Fortune can snatch away only what she herself has given. But virtue
she does not give; therefore she cannot take it away. Virtue is free,
inviolable, unmoved, unshaken, so steeled against the blows of chance
that she cannot be bent, much less broken. Facing the instruments of
torture she holds her gaze unflinching, her expression changes not at
all, whether a hard or a happy lot is shown her. Therefore the wise
man will lose nothing which he will be able to regard as loss; for
the only possession he has is virtue, and of this he can never be
robbed. Of all else he has merely the use on sufferance. Who,
however, is moved by the loss of that which is not his own? But if
injury can do no harm to anything that a wise man owns, since if his
virtue is safe his possessions are safe, then no injury can happen to
the wise man."

>
>
> >Salvete
>
> >As part of the push to have all the main page content up to date in
> >all languages, could I ask that those able contribute caption
> >translations for the main page photo rotation? The page is here:
> >http://novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData
> <http://novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData>
>

Salve, Agricola. I'm not really sure about how this works, but I added
Italian translations for all the captions on the page. Please have a
look. If any of my edits aren't OK you are, of course, free to remove them.

Bene vale,
Placidus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Venator,

My wishes and prayers for your quick recovery.

Vale optime bene,

C. Aemilius Crassus.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:26:47 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] OT: Health is fragile...Venator is ill

Valetudo quod fortuna omnes;

I have been having dizziness and lightheadedness for several months.

The culmination of this were blackouts when I got up for work the day
before and 2 days after the Ides of this month.

Both days: my alarm rang at 04:20; I hit the snooze bar, sat up,
turned off the switch...next thing I knew I was face down on the
floor. No warning, just lights out. First episode I was just a
little shaken up. Second one, the right side of my forhead looked
like someone had taken a belt sander to it, plus my neach muscles
aches. Both times it felt like someone was holding a hot iron across
the back and left side of my head.

I have been seeing my doctor (both after the second episode and for a
physical) and other medical help.

Diabetes and thyroid problems have been ruled out. My liver is in
good shape, save for a small elevation in bilirubin. Total
cholesterol is a little high (HDL - 1 pt low, LDL - 31 pts high,
triglycerides - normal). Blood pressure was up, lungs were clear and
neck blood vessels sounded ok.

I did have a stress test: blood pressure IS a bit high, but not in the
danger zone, blood oxygen was good, heart sounded fine, my heart
recovery after the treadmill exercise was very good, but I did have a
minor ventricular arrhythmia. The took ultrasound pictures of my
heart before and after the stress, but I won't have the results until
next Tuesday.

Next step is a chest, neck and head MRI to map the blood flow therein...

Ah well, I still breath and can communicate, so it's still a good day!

Watch out for yourselves folks.

============ ========= ========= ========= ==
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis - Poet




____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aemilius Crassus Q. Fabio Maximo SPD,

I don�t want to contest your expertise on the subject, more so because it isn�t my field, but I never saw the number of the Pontic army place so low as 20,000 men. The lowest I ever see it was about 60,000 men but I will have to search to find in which book it was.

I would like to ask you if you have some references that give the 20,000 number.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: "QFabiusMaxmi@..." <QFabiusMaxmi@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:27:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] a. d. VII Kal. Feb.: Battle of Chaeronea


In a message dated 1/25/2008 9:36:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mhoratius@sbcglobal .net writes:

Archelaus had an army of 120,000. The two accounts of the battle, in
Appian's Mithridatic Wars, Bk 6 and Plutarch's Life of Sulla, ch. 17-
19, claim that only 10,000 of the Mithridatic army survived the
battle, while Sulla's army of only 40,000 is said to have lost only
12 men.

As a military historian, I must point out 120,000 is too much of an army.
The Greeks at their height could barely put in the field 50,000 at Plataia, and
this was against 60,000 Persians whose total numbers stretched Greece's
logistics to the breaking point.

20,000 troops is more likely for the Pontics, based on their supply situation
and transport.

The Roman army itself was four legiones of 18000 men tops. This was what
Cornelius Sulla left Rome with. However both the Aetolian league and the Attika
supplied troops to flesh out Sulla's numbers especially in horse. As for the
12 casualties, well, the Roman centre was lightly engaged, they withstood a
chariot charge, most of the fighting was on the wings.

The legend is 120,000, and legends are good, but sometimes a bit of truth
helps to understand just as well.

Valete

Q. Fabius Maximus


************ **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music. aol.com/grammys/ pictures/ never-won- a-grammy? NCID=aolcmp00300 0000025
48)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aemilius Crassus Q. Fabio Maximo SPD,

I don�t want to contest your expertise on the subject, more so because it isn�t my field, but I never saw the number of the Pontic army place so low as 20,000 men. The lowest I ever see it was about 60,000 men but I will have to search to find in which book it was.

I would like to ask you if you have some references that give the 20,000 number.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message ----
From: "QFabiusMaxmi@..." <QFabiusMaxmi@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:27:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] a. d. VII Kal. Feb.: Battle of Chaeronea


In a message dated 1/25/2008 9:36:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mhoratius@sbcglobal .net writes:

Archelaus had an army of 120,000. The two accounts of the battle, in
Appian's Mithridatic Wars, Bk 6 and Plutarch's Life of Sulla, ch. 17-
19, claim that only 10,000 of the Mithridatic army survived the
battle, while Sulla's army of only 40,000 is said to have lost only
12 men.

As a military historian, I must point out 120,000 is too much of an army.
The Greeks at their height could barely put in the field 50,000 at Plataia, and
this was against 60,000 Persians whose total numbers stretched Greece's
logistics to the breaking point.

20,000 troops is more likely for the Pontics, based on their supply situation
and transport.

The Roman army itself was four legiones of 18000 men tops. This was what
Cornelius Sulla left Rome with. However both the Aetolian league and the Attika
supplied troops to flesh out Sulla's numbers especially in horse. As for the
12 casualties, well, the Roman centre was lightly engaged, they withstood a
chariot charge, most of the fighting was on the wings.

The legend is 120,000, and legends are good, but sometimes a bit of truth
helps to understand just as well.

Valete

Q. Fabius Maximus


************ **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music. aol.com/grammys/ pictures/ never-won- a-grammy? NCID=aolcmp00300 0000025
48)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Venator,

I wish you a quick recovery. Nova Roma needs you, dear friend. We all need you!

Optime vale,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agricola Placido sal.

Perfect!

Ago tibi gratias!

optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Ugo Coppola <ugo.coppola@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > >Salvete
> >
> > >As part of the push to have all the main page content up to date in
> > >all languages, could I ask that those able contribute caption
> > >translations for the main page photo rotation? The page is here:
> > >http://novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData
> > <http://novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve, Agricola. I'm not really sure about how this works, but I added
> Italian translations for all the captions on the page. Please have a
> look. If any of my edits aren't OK you are, of course, free to
remove them.
>
> Bene vale,
> Placidus
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Who was the only undefeated gladiator?

Tribuna Plebis Lucia Livia Plauta Quiritibus SPD

Senate Voting Results

The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been
tallied as follows.

Formal debate ended on January 21 2761 at 17:00 Roman time. Voting
began at 06.45 hrs CET on Weds. 23 Jan. 2761 and ended at 17.00 hrs
CET on Sat. 26 Jan. 2761.


The following 30 Senators cast votes in time. They are referred to
below by their initials, in the order in which they cast their votes:

[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
[KFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
[KFBM] Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
[ISM] Iulilla Sempronia Magna
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
[MOG] Marcus Octavius Gracchus
[CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus
[FGA] Flavius Galerius Aurelianus
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
[CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius

The following 7 Senators did not cast a vote (their absence was not
announced or justified):

[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Iulianus
[GEC] Gaius Equitius Cato
[PC] Patricia Cassia
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
[MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
[ATMC] Ap. Tullius Marcellus Cato

Senatrix Pompeia Minucia Strabo [PMS] is on leave.


The necessary majority for a Senatus consultum was therefore 16 votes
in favor. "UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "ANTIQUO"
is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.

The Senate was called to vote on the following agenda:

Sententiam rogo Senati. Quid de ea re fieri placent?

ITEM I

Our Ancestors placed the Gods as their starting point in every
important matter, and thus it was that when Varro advised Pompeius
Magnus on the proper ways of convening the Senate, he pointed out
that questions related to the Gods ought to be brought before the
Senate before any other matters. Therefore:

The Senate instructs the Consul to consult with the Collegium
Pontificum on preserving the Pax Deorum and to act on the advice of
the Pontifices wherever the Pax Deorum is in need of repair.

VTI ROGAS 27
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 0


ITEM II

The Senate gives its assent to the tax rates for MMDCCLXI as provided
by the Consul.

VTI ROGAS 30
ABSTINEO 0
ANTIQUO 0


ITEM III

The Senate extends its special thanks to Senator Marcus Octavius
Gracchus for his many years of service as Magister Aerarii and in
assisting the Magistri Aerarii, providing Nova Roma with a server,
restoring the website, archiving our records, and often single
handily providing technical support for our magistrates and Citizens
alike.

VTI ROGAS 27
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 0

ITEM IV

The Senate appoints Quaestrix consularis Equestria Iunia Laeca
Curatrix Aerarii (Financial Officer) for a term lasting two years from
the kalendae Februariae MMDCCLXI AUC (1 Feb. 2008) until the kalendae
Martiae MMDCCLXIII AUC (1 March 2010CE). In the event that the Senate
does not appoint another Curator Aerarii before Kal. Martis 2762 AUC,
Equestria Iunia Laeca shall be eligible to act in the capacity of
Chief Financial Officer of Nova Roma Inc. under the direction of the
Consuls until the Senate reconfirms her in office or replaces her.
This appointment may be superceded by senatus consultus or enactment
of legislation that establish financial officers for Nova Roma, Inc.
by other means.

VTI ROGAS 26
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 1


ITEM V

The Senate authorizes Senator Curius Saturninus the use of the Nova
Roma name and logo in the production of "official Nova Roma
Calendars" for the years MMDCCLXI through MMDCCLXVI (2008 - 2013 CE).

VTI ROGAS 29
ABSTINEO 0
ANTIQUO 1


ITEM VI

The Senate, recognizing the amount of time that has elapsed since
their transgressions, has added an expiration date to the reprimands
that were previously issued to L. Cornelius Sulla Felix and to L.
Maria Fimbria. The expiration date shall be set as the anniversary
of the dedication of the Temple of Concordia, a. d. XI Kal. Sept.
MMDCCLXI AUC [22 July 2008 CE]. After this date their past
transgressions are considered expiated.

VTI ROGAS 19
ABSTINEO 7
ANTIQUO 4


ITEM VII

The Senate lends its support to the Consul to issue an edictum
instructing list owners to approve without exception the requests of
all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to any and all lists that
are recognized as necessary in the administration of Nova Roma.
These lists shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com".

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a
specific list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, list
owners shall nonetheless be instructed to subscribe members of the
Senate upon request, although the list owners may under such
circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in the edictum shall be any private lists of a
semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold
discussions with their advisors and appointees.

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 4


ITEM VIII

The Aediles Curules have requested an amendment to the SC governing
the Aedilician Fund. As it is currently written, the Aediles are
given fiduciary responsibility for the fund, but hold no actual
control or access to the funds, and must rely on others even for
reports. The intent of this amendment to the SC is to clarify and
define those relationships.

The current Senatus consultum issued in July 25th 2756, which created
the Aedilician fund, can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/13411 (ML 03/07/25).

It is the last section that the Aediles Curules wish changed from the
following:

"IV. The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. A detailed record of all donations and their
destinations will be kept by the Quaestores assigned to the Aediles
Curules. The Curule Aedilician Quaestores will also provide the
Consules with quarterly reports on the Aedilician Fund to be attached
to the national budget of Nova Roma."


The proposed and expanded version is thus:

"IV.a The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. As such, the Aediles define, in a common edict and in
the frame of the present senatus consultum, the rules concerning the
management of this fund;

IV.b The Aediles Curules are assisted by one or more quaestors who
shall be responsible for:

1. preparing all statements and reports of receipts and disbursements
of the fund, based on the information they receive from the assigned
consular quaestor(s) that concern donations to and disbursements from
the Aedilician Fund;

2. reporting regularly and each time requested to the Aediles Curules
on the status of the Aedilician Fund;

3. serving notice to the Aediles Curules immediately whenever
difficulties arise in the performance of their duties;

4. upon request of officers of the Senate, preparing reports for the
Senate, reviewed by the Aediles Curules, on the state of the
Aedilician Fund;

IV.c: Upon request, the Aediles Curules shall inform the Consuls and
every concerned magistrate on the state of the Aedilician Fund, based
on the reports made to them by their assigned Quaestores Aediles.

IV.d: The Aediles Curules shall prepare the annual accounting of the
Aedilician Fund, based on the records of their assigned Quaestors,
and present this report in a timely fashion to the Consuls in order
that it may be included as an attachment to the annual budget.

IV.e: In the case of an emergency concerning the Aedilician Fund, the
Aediles Curules shall request and shall be granted permission by the
presiding magistrate to address the Senate directly and respond to
any questions made by its

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 2
ANTIQUO 5

TTribuna Plebis Lucia Livia Plauta Quiritibus SPD

Senate Voting Results

The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been
tallied as follows.

Formal debate ended on January 21 2761 at 17:00 Roman time. Voting
began at 06.45 hrs CET on Weds. 23 Jan. 2761 and ended at 17.00 hrs
CET on Sat. 26 Jan. 2761.


The following 30 Senators cast votes in time. They are referred to
below by their initials, in the order in which they cast their votes:

[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
[KFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
[KFBM] Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
[ISM] Iulilla Sempronia Magna
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
[MOG] Marcus Octavius Gracchus
[CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus
[FGA] Flavius Galerius Aurelianus
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
[CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius

The following 7 Senators did not cast a vote (their absence was not
announced or justified):

[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Iulianus
[GEC] Gaius Equitius Cato
[PC] Patricia Cassia
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
[MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
[ATMC] Ap. Tullius Marcellus Cato

Senatrix Pompeia Minucia Strabo [PMS] is on leave.


The necessary majority for a Senatus consultum was therefore 16 votes
in favor. "UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "ANTIQUO"
is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.

The Senate was called to vote on the following agenda:

Sententiam rogo Senati. Quid de ea re fieri placent?

ITEM I

Our Ancestors placed the Gods as their starting point in every
important matter, and thus it was that when Varro advised Pompeius
Magnus on the proper ways of convening the Senate, he pointed out
that questions related to the Gods ought to be brought before the
Senate before any other matters. Therefore:

The Senate instructs the Consul to consult with the Collegium
Pontificum on preserving the Pax Deorum and to act on the advice of
the Pontifices wherever the Pax Deorum is in need of repair.

VTI ROGAS 27
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 0

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti Rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
Reestablishing and maintaining the Pax Deorum for Nova Roma should be
a priority for all Senatores and Senatrices, indeed for all Novi
Romani.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS:
I am very interested to see if the new active role of the Consuls and
Senate will break the present deadlock in the Collegium Pontificum
and the Religio.

KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas
MLA Uti rogas
GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Uti rogas
CCS Uti Rogas: I thank the Consules for their wish to take action in
this matter.

FAC ABSTINEO: I didn't follow this matter and I have not enough data
to decide.

MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS:
I am in favor of this proposal. We need Pax et Concordia, above allÂ…

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas
FVG Yes
ATS Assentior; uti rogas
TGP VTI ROGAS
QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas: This is a move to the right direction.
CFD Uti Rogas
QFM Vti Rogas
MIP ABSTINEO
LECA VTI ROGAS:
I have said since the beginning that all Pontifices should be fully
ranked Senatores. That there are Pontifices who are not Senatores
speaks of nova Roma politics and nova Roma's strong tendency to pick
and choose which things to do as the Romans did based on personal
agenda.

MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas:
I am a bit hesitant at the word "instructs", but seeing as
how it is the Consul himself who has put this suggestion forward, I
will
support it.

DIPI Uti rogas:
I applaud the consul for taking an active role ensuring The Pax
Deorum is maintained and repaired if necessary.

GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Abstineo:
there is no need reaffirming a role that the consuls already have.


ITEM II

The Senate gives its assent to the tax rates for MMDCCLXI as provided
by the Consul.

VTI ROGAS 30
ABSTINEO 0
ANTIQUO 0

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
The Consules have jointly decided this year to use the formula without
any adjustments in any of the provinciae. While the base
rate has slightly risen in most provinces, without a 20% adjustment
the tax rates in some provinciae will be lower this year than last.
Where no adjustment was made last year, the slight rise in base rate
will be reflected as a small increase in the tax rate in some
provinciae.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS
KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas
MLA Uti rogas:
I hope that the rate, nearly unchanged from last year, is
found by all to be reasonable. Let us, Senators, work with all
diligence to ensure that all taxpaying citizens enjoy the greatest
possible benefit in return for their trust.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Uti rogas
CCS Uti Rogas
FAC VTI ROGAS
MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS:
I'd propose in a future occasion to revise the rates, because I
believe that we the citizens could afford to give more. Or maybe, we
should promote a permanent campaign of special contributions.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas
FVG Yes
ATS Assentior; uti rogas
TGP VTI ROGAS:
The rate should be set higher and the Consul does not need the consent
of the Senate to set this years tax rate.

QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas
CFD Uti Rogas
QFM Vti Rogas
MIP VTI ROGAS
LECA Vti Rogas
MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas:
I would support a change from 1/3000 to 1/2000 of GDP, as
well as some other changes I mentioned in the discussion.

DIPI Vti Rogas
GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Uti Rogas

ITEM III

The Senate extends its special thanks to Senator Marcus Octavius
Gracchus for his many years of service as Magister Aerarii and in
assisting the Magistri Aerarii, providing Nova Roma with a server,
restoring the website, archiving our records, and often single
handily providing technical support for our magistrates and Citizens
alike.

VTI ROGAS 27
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 0

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
Over the years many of our Citizens have contributed in their own
unique ways to noster Res Publica Libera. Senator Marcus Octavius has
done moreso than others in preserving Nova Roma, through some of its
most difficult times, often single handily, consistently, diligently,
and without the recognition he justly deserves. I happy to give this
opportunity to the Senate to voice its gratitude to Senator Marcus
Octavius Gracchus.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS:
There is no doubt that deserves this honor and I would be prepared to
add even more honors to this one.

KFBM Uti Rogas:
I think we should be extending more than just a thanks to Marcus
Octavius Gracchus. He has done much to build up Nova Roma and
deserves more than a thank you.

JSM Uti Rogas:
It is difficult to estimate the value of the years of service rendered
by Senator Marcus Octavius Gracchus other than to say that it is
beyond price. It is such a privilege to have served with him.

MLA Uti rogas:
Having had the pleasure and honor of working with M.
Octavius Gracchus I can say that both his dedication to Nova Roma and
his technical skills are of the very first rate. He deserves more than
thanks.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Abstineo: Thanks to all for their comments.

CCS Uti Rogas:
He has had his ups and downs, but the value of his contributions is
not diminished by that.

FAC VTI ROGAS: Senator Gracchus has my personal gratitude.

MCC Uti Rogas:
Octavius Gracchus has worked hard to Nova Roma and his work is worthy
of admiration and thanks.

MMA YES: Most heartily and most deservedly.

MIS VTI ROGAS: M. Octavius Gracchus deserves our gratitude.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas:
Marcus Octavius has given us a great resource with the NRwiki. I am
very grateful to him. It not only will be a scholarly resource but it
permits us to inform and help cultores with articles and photographs;
activities that the CP has abandoned.

FVG Abstain
ATS Assentior; uti rogas:
The innumerable contributions of Senator Gracchus deserve more than
thanks from us.

TGP VTI ROGAS:
He has my sincere thanks, my profound respect
and admiration for all that he has done for Nova Roma.

QSP UTI ROGAS: he did a terrific job and his work is greatly
appreciated.

ECF Uti Rogas
CFD Uti Rogas
QFM:
I thank the Senator for his service, but this was not phrased as a yes
or no item.

MIP VTI ROGAS
LECA Vti Rogas:
Consul Piscinus; `Great idea, Cincinnatus!' Cincinnatus Augur; "You're
welcome, Consul! I've always thought highly of my friend Marcus, even
when we had disagreed."

MAM Uti Rogas: Marcus Octavius is one of the crucial citizens of Nova
Roma.
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas: Thank you!
DIPI Uti rogas:
He deserves our thanks and much, much more. He is a gentleman, who
has put countless hours and dollars into Nova Roma. Thank you Marcus
Octavius Gracchus!

GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Uti Rogas, recognizing Octavius' true dedication in his technical
missions.



ITEM IV

The Senate appoints Quaestrix consularis Equestria Iunia Laeca
Curatrix Aerarii (Financial Officer) for a term lasting two years from
the kalendae Februariae MMDCCLXI AUC (1 Feb. 2008) until the kalendae
Martiae MMDCCLXIII AUC (1 March 2010CE). In the event that the Senate
does not appoint another Curator Aerarii before Kal. Martis 2762 AUC,
Equestria Iunia Laeca shall be eligible to act in the capacity of
Chief Financial Officer of Nova Roma Inc. under the direction of the
Consuls until the Senate reconfirms her in office or replaces her.
This appointment may be superceded by senatus consultus or enactment
of legislation that establish financial officers for Nova Roma, Inc.
by other means.

VTI ROGAS 26
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 1

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
I shall paraphrase some words written to me by Quaestrix Iunia
Laeca: it is time for us to set a pattern of behavior in place,
through policies and procedures, that ensures transparency and order
in our financial arrangements by means of oversight and management,
which needs to be effected at the administration level. Reform of
Nova Roma's financial system, structure and function, is in the
beginning stages. Even the internal controls are still being
identified and developed.

At this time I not only reccomend that the Senate approve Quaestrix
Iunia Laeca as Curatrix Aerarii, I believe that it has becoome
necessary for Nova Roma's future.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS
KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas
MLA Uti rogas:
Although I do not personally know this citizen, there is
ample evidence that she is fully qualified for this post. May the
immortal gods assist her in these important duties.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Uti rogas
CCS Uti Rogas. Although I would have liked to see more historical
solution.

FAC VTI ROGAS: I don't know her but I'm sure the Consules are acting
in the right way.

MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS: For what I know, she is the best candidate for this
position.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas: Until we can find a more historical solution.

FVG No
ATS Assentior; uti rogas:
I have had some personal communication with Equestria Iunia Laeca, who
is a former student of mine from the AT. She is a fine person, and I
am sure she will do a good job for Nova Roma. I hope that this
appointment will lead to an improvement in the transparency and other
matters concerning our financial situation.

TGP VTI ROGAS
QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas
CFD Abstineo
QFM Vti Rogas: I approve.
MIP ABSTINEO
LECA VTI ROGAS
MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas:
I go by the recommendation of other senators, as I don't know her
myself.

DIPI Uti rogas:
With pleasure do I cast a vote a vote for Equestria Iunia Laeca for
this position.

GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Abstineo:
on one hand, it is time for NR to have a daily available, clear,
precise and public information on its financial status. On the other,
such an assignment looks illegal, for being contrary to the one-year
term principle applicable to every of our ordinarii (except censors),
and organized by our current laws.


ITEM V

The Senate authorizes Senator Curius Saturninus the use of the Nova
Roma name and logo in the production of "official Nova Roma
Calendars" for the years MMDCCLXI through MMDCCLXVI (2008 - 2013 CE).

VTI ROGAS 29
ABSTINEO 0
ANTIQUO 1

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
This authorization is placed in proven capable hands to one who
provides a special service to all Novi Romani. The period of
authorization for five years offers the Senate one element in forming
longer range financial plans as will, I think, become more necessary
in the future.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS:
Placing this task in the hands of Caius Curius for 5 years is in line
with what the Censores did with public works, some that the calender
may be compared to. There is no better person to deal with this task.

KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas: He does a fine, fine job.
MLA Uti rogas:
I have full confidence that Senator Saturninus will bring
honor to himself as he continues to provide a top-quality, beautiful
and useful product.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Uti rogas
CCS Uti Rogas: I thank the Consules and the Senate for their trust.

FAC VTI ROGAS: the roman calendar by Saturninus is a wonderful
product.

MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS:
Saturninus deserves our support. I also agree with some colleague who
suggested that this august body should encourage our citizens to
purchase this calendar.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas:
With Saturninus we know and can expect 5 more years of a beautiful and
useful calendar. I am grateful to him.

FVG Yes
ATS Assentior; uti rogas:
Senator Saturninus has done a fine job with the calendar, which is
both very beautiful and very useful to all citizens of Nova Roma,
especially her magistrates.

TGP VTI ROGAS
QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas: Sincere thanks to the consuls for bringing up this
issue.
CFD Uti Rogas
QFM Vti Rogas
MIP VTI ROGAS
LECA VTI ROGAS
MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas
DIPI Uti rogas
GPL Uti Rogas
PMA ANTIQUO:
With no surprise, I am opposed as senator to a granting that I have
opposed as aedile, for this time the 7 main following reasons :
- The Senate has never, in ancient Rome tradition, ruled in the
ordinary commercial field which falls in the aediles curules
competency;
- Our constitution has not given our Senate such a right;
- The previous granting by the Senate 2 years ago must not be seen as
a legal precedence, but an error that the Senate would be eager to
correct, this year as last year.
- No argument, presented to support Curius's extraordinary privilege,
is legally good. The one which states that the Senate as the board of
NR Inc. would be directly competent for trademarks is a wrong one, for
it would generally deprive our assemblies and all the magistrates
(except consuls) and priests from their role, and the Senate rule
everything. On the contrary, we must remind that NR Inc. board has,
explicitly or implicitly, accepted our constitution as the general
rule binding NR Inc. members, and must thus accept to respect the
competency of other powers.
- Independantly of the qualities of both product and seller, the
Senate will not be able preventing our citizens to think that a
special privilege has been granted to Sen. Curius just because he is
senator and a friend of some ones, and that he has not been confident
enough in his product and in our ordinary laws to accept the common
commercial aedilician competency.
- The 5 years granting gives Curius an extraordinary status which
prevent any fair competition between our Equites who would be
interested in proposing, also, "NR official" calendars. Why not also,
last, allow every Macellum seller such a status ?
- Eq. Curius and sposa have cast a vote as senators for this item,
though personally concerned.


ITEM VI

The Senate, recognizing the amount of time that has elapsed since
their transgressions, has added an expiration date to the reprimands
that were previously issued to L. Cornelius Sulla Felix and to L.
Maria Fimbria. The expiration date shall be set as the anniversary
of the dedication of the Temple of Concordia, a. d. XI Kal. Sept.
MMDCCLXI AUC [22 July 2008 CE]. After this date their past
transgressions are considered expiated.

VTI ROGAS 19
ABSTINEO 7
ANTIQUO 4

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas:
I present separately my vote to this item to point out that my
decision is based by Marcus Moravius words:" I shall reiterate that
Item VI is not about the past but rather about the future"

MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
Through his many services following the incident that brought him a
justified reprimand, Lucius Cornelius redeemed himself in the eyes of
members of that earlier Senate. As many of those Senators recall,
Lucius Cornelius and I were fiercely opposed to one another on
several issues. Those disputes and the divisions they led to should
be put aside in this the Tenth Anniversary of Nova Roma, and all
members of the Senate should especially commit ourself to the spirit
of Concordia.

With regard to Marius Fimbria, who is now known by the name Marius
Peregrinus since he passed into self imposed exile, there remains a
difference of opinion in the Senate over his reprimand. Justified at
the time, it was so, but not as originally posed as though it were an
act of witchcraft rather than a foolish prank as intended. Eight
years is long enough to forgive a childish insult without looking
childish yourself. In spite of past differences, Aulus Marius
Peregrinus today still assists others who come to Nova Roma, just as
he first introduced some of this Senate's oldest members to noster
Res Publica. He remains a promotor, rather than a detractor of Nova
Roma, and acts as a bridge between our Res Publica with others. It
is time to set aside his Senate reprimand just our Censors last year
set aside his past nota.

In the name of Concordia I recommend the Senate put aside and forgive
the past transgressions of both Lucius Cornelius and Marius Fimbria.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS:
I will freely and gladly support this item. Let us turn our eyes to
the future development of the Res Publica, instead of turning our
eyes towards our navels.

KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas:
To act in the spirit of Concordia is as good for nations as it is for
individuals.

MLA Uti rogas: Let this episode finally be closed. Let us look to the
future.

GEM Uti Rogas, with particular thanks to the senators who worked out
this
language.

MOG Uti rogas to both parts:
I vote to revoke the reprimand against Aldus Marius Peregrinus, by
whatever
names he was known in the past, not for the reason cited, but because
it
was an act of vengeance that has done great harm to Nova Roma and the
greater Roman community.

I vote to expire the reprimand against my Consular colleague in the
spirit
of Concordia, even though he is no longer with us, in recognition of
the
great service he has rendered.

CCS Uti Rogas:
It's a mature sign for organisation of any kind to be able to forgive.

FAC VTI ROGAS: hoping they wouldn't repeat their errors.

MCC Abstineo
MMA YES:
I would like to thank those Senators who have determined and carried
through this idea. It is an excellent example, to me, of Concordance
within the Senate.

MIS VTI ROGAS:
I really don't know very much about this matter, but from what has
been posted here, I see no reason why this reprimand should not be
revoked.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas: An excellent way to honour Dea Concordia with deeds.

FVG No
ATS Abstineo:
I would have preferred that these items be separated, especially since
the matter the offense of former Senator Sulla which occasioned this
reprimand was both a late addition to this item and one which was not
discussed or clarified in curia. Based on my knowledge of the
incident concerning Aldus Marius Peregrinus, formerly L. Maria
Fimbria, it seems to me that this was a prank, not something
malicious. It may indeed have offended its target, and perhaps
others, but it seems to have had no such intent. If memory serves, I
voted to remove the nota from him last year, and I therefore support
removal of the reprimand from Aldus Marius Peregrinus. However, I do
not know enough about the other issue to render a decision. If the
matter concerning former Senator Sulla is what I think it is, however,
I doubt that I could support a removal of that reprimand in any case.

TGP ANTIQUO:
With this vote I will not be popular with many Senators,
possibly even with a majority of this house but I see things
they way I see them.
As William Shakespeare wrote in the Tempest:
"What is Past is Prologue."
During the discussion on the repeal of the rebuke
to L. Marius Fimbria now know as Aldus Marius
Peregrinus It has been stated that:
"But what does it say about Nova Roma itself
when the Senate imposes itself in a praetorian matter,
over what was essentially a trivial incident, as though
comedy is an act of sedition against the
State and an attack on the religio Romana."
Based on what has been written in the record
Sulla was without a colleague and felt that he
should not make the decision alone.
That is why the Senate was asked to get involved.
In addition to that if this was such a "trivial incident"
why, after so many years are we rehashing it?
I was asked last year, along with my colleague,
to present this to the Senate I choose not to because
the events were long over and safe within the
confines of our annuals. I thought that we had
enough new animosities to deal with and that revisiting
the old ones seemed out of place.
It still does.
I would rather use our time to deal with those who
are still here than to dwell on those who have left and
who, by the Consuls own admission , has no
intentions of reapplying for citizenship.
It has also been stated that the Senate proceeding in
this case had the appearance of a "star chamber"
If the Senate had acted unconstitutionally or
even extra constitutionally our Tribunes for the year,
Gnaeus Tarquinius Caesar and Lucius Sergius Australicus
would have acted to prevent it.
The Censors of 2760 felt that the Nota had been in effect long enough
and took steps to repeal it. It was their decision to make and they
made it.
Case closed on the Nota. If the Senate also removes the reprimand,
which is in all actually a slap on the wrist, nothing will remain
of the rebuke the Senate of the time issued for what it felt was
un-Roman like behavior. It should also be noted that impersonation of
ANYONE on our lists is a violation the yahoo TOS.
If Aldus Marius Peregrinus and/or his supporters can not live with
a strongly worded rebuke they are less Roman than they allege.
We should be learning from history not rewriting it.

QSP ANTIQUO: As I mentioned a few days back, I do not believe it is
correct to second guess decisions made by others in the past. Leave
the past in the past.

ECF Uti Rogas
CFD Uti Rogas for both parts
QFM Antiquo:
She got off easy. She should have been tried for identity theft and
violating Yahoo's TOS. You cannot rewrite history, though I notice
you all seem to like to do that.
It was said, it was done.

MIP ABSTINEO
LECA Absto:
I'll not vote against this on account of my friend Sulla.
As for (fill in whatever name is being used today), Censor Paulinus
summed up my thoughts wellÂ…

MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Abstineo: I agree completely with Aula Tullia Scholastica.
DIPI Uti rogas:
I hope this is the last time we hear of this issue. By putting an
expiration date on the reprimand, the Senate admits both people have
paid for their transgressions by having these on their records for so
long.
Despite what some people have said, the action by Fimbria was not a
prank and was malicious in nature. I'll point out that not single
senator who was in the senate at that time spoke in favor of revoking
the reprimand. They were the ones best able to judge.
As for the reprimand against Sulla, as I recall (and I'm frankly not
sure I remember the issue in its entirety) it was a comparatively
minor issue at least partially brought on by the way Nova Roma was
structured. I wonder if we could even have found the text of the
reprimand to discuss.
In the spirit of Concordia, let these issues rest and let us all work
to try and prevent new issues that will haunt us for years.

GPL Abstineo:
I have said I would follow the lead of the Senatores who were active
at the time, especially the wishes of Lucius Equitius.

PMA Abstineo,
reminding that the Senate, here also, would be wiser to let our
censors rule alone this field of competency, which is historically
theirs.


ITEM VII

The Senate lends its support to the Consul to issue an edictum
instructing list owners to approve without exception the requests of
all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to any and all lists that
are recognized as necessary in the administration of Nova Roma.
These lists shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com".

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a
specific list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, list
owners shall nonetheless be instructed to subscribe members of the
Senate upon request, although the list owners may under such
circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in the edictum shall be any private lists of a
semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold
discussions with their advisors and appointees.

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 4

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
The Senate and its members are charged with overseeing all aspects of
Nova Roma. Therefore it is only reasonable that all Senatores and
Senatrices be allowed access to those lists which are necessary for
the administration of Nova Roma.

KFBQ UTI ROGAS:
I certainly support the stand point that the Senate and its members
are charged with overseeing all aspects of
Nova Roma. I have no problem with stating that "all Senatores and
Senatrices be allowed access to those lists which are necessary for
the administration of Nova Roma."

KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas
MLA Uti rogas:
As a minimum, members of this body must be able to monitor
the goings on of all groups that undertake public business.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Antiquo:
This prevents listowners from denying admission to Senators who intend
to be disruptive.

CCS Uti Rogas:
This is a wonderful step into direction of more clearly defined
practises in the NR administration.

FAC VTI ROGAS
MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS:
I am in favor of this item, but I also believe that moderation should
be enforced.

FGA UTI ROGAS
MHM Uti Rogas
FVG No
ATS Assentior; uti rogas:
So long as we obey the law and keep sodality lists out of this, and
owners or other moderators have the option of removing or even barring
those known to be disruptive, I support this.

TGP ANTIQUO:
The Senate has the power to order the creation of any list/s
we need and. to declare them "official fora" . This would place
them under the jurisdiction of the Praetors. Yahoo sets the terms of
who owns a yahoo list not us.

QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas: This is a considerable improvement.
CFD Uti Rogas
QFM Antiquo: It opens the door to abuse of power.
MIP VTI ROGAS
LECA (vote not stated, probably by mistake)
MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas: Long overdue.
DIPI Abstain:
It seems at least some of the lists listed were private lists that
shouldn't have been included. I agree with the idea in theory,
however.

GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Abstineo:
This consuls do not need the preliminary authorization of the Senate
to issue an edictum which enters in the frame of their imperium.
They may just ask the Senate for an advice. The clause "where sen.
etc." is thus unappropriate, for it let the Senate, once again,
believe that the consuls are obliged to follow this previously
accepted proceedings.
Last, the text will let any of our cives understand that the SC mainly
deals with problems faced by senators, and not by every citizen.
I however abstain, in a good will mind, if it allows Nova Roma making
a clearer difference between public and private fora.


ITEM VIII

The Aediles Curules have requested an amendment to the SC governing
the Aedilician Fund. As it is currently written, the Aediles are
given fiduciary responsibility for the fund, but hold no actual
control or access to the funds, and must rely on others even for
reports. The intent of this amendment to the SC is to clarify and
define those relationships.

The current Senatus consultum issued in July 25th 2756, which created
the Aedilician fund, can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/13411 (ML 03/07/25).

It is the last section that the Aediles Curules wish changed from the
following:

"IV. The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. A detailed record of all donations and their
destinations will be kept by the Quaestores assigned to the Aediles
Curules. The Curule Aedilician Quaestores will also provide the
Consules with quarterly reports on the Aedilician Fund to be attached
to the national budget of Nova Roma."


The proposed and expanded version is thus:

"IV.a The Aedilician Fund is under the Aediles Curules'
responsibility. As such, the Aediles define, in a common edict and in
the frame of the present senatus consultum, the rules concerning the
management of this fund;

IV.b The Aediles Curules are assisted by one or more quaestors who
shall be responsible for:

1. preparing all statements and reports of receipts and disbursements
of the fund, based on the information they receive from the assigned
consular quaestor(s) that concern donations to and disbursements from
the Aedilician Fund;

2. reporting regularly and each time requested to the Aediles Curules
on the status of the Aedilician Fund;

3. serving notice to the Aediles Curules immediately whenever
difficulties arise in the performance of their duties;

4. upon request of officers of the Senate, preparing reports for the
Senate, reviewed by the Aediles Curules, on the state of the
Aedilician Fund;

IV.c: Upon request, the Aediles Curules shall inform the Consuls and
every concerned magistrate on the state of the Aedilician Fund, based
on the reports made to them by their assigned Quaestores Aediles.

IV.d: The Aediles Curules shall prepare the annual accounting of the
Aedilician Fund, based on the records of their assigned Quaestors,
and present this report in a timely fashion to the Consuls in order
that it may be included as an attachment to the annual budget.

IV.e: In the case of an emergency concerning the Aedilician Fund, the
Aediles Curules shall request and shall be granted permission by the
presiding magistrate to address the Senate directly and respond to
any questions made by its

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 2
ANTIQUO 5

The votes were cast as follows:
TIS Uti rogas
MMPH Adsentior uti rogas:
The original wording of the senatusconsultus on the Aedilician Fund
placed financial responsibilities on the Aediles Curules but did not
stipulate procedures and policies on how they we to attain
information that is necessary for them to make their reports to the
Senate on the financial status of the Magna Mater Project. This
amendment address some of the issues that were previously overlooked.

KFBQ Adsentior uti rogas:
It was during my Consulship the Aedilian fund was approved after a
tough political compromise. I am happy to see that we now are ready to
move forward allow the fund to develop to its natural position.

KFBM Uti Rogas
JSM Uti Rogas
MLA Uti rogas:
These changes seem useful, reasonable and well thought out.
May the gods assist the Curule Aediles in the discharge of their
duties with respect to this fund.

GEM Uti Rogas
MOG Abstineo
CCS Uti Rogas
FAC VTI ROGAS
MCC Uti Rogas
MMA YES
MIS VTI ROGAS
FGA ANTIQUO
MHM Uti Rogas
FVG No
ATS Assentior; uti rogas:
It is rather difficult to have oversight over something for which one
lacks information or even access.

TGP VTI ROGAS
QSP UTI ROGAS
ECF Uti Rogas
CFD Antiquo
QFM Antiquo
MIP VTI ROGAS
LECA Antiquo
MAM Uti Rogas
AMA Uti Rogas
TOPA Uti rogas
DIPI Abstain
GPL Uti Rogas
PMA Uti Rogas

Triarius Venator s.d.

Mead, my friend! Mead is the answer!! You're not a diabetic..so MEAD is
the answer, LOL!

Really, any date on the new version of the mead book yet?

Keep warm and well,

Vale optime,
Triarius

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos salvas et servatas volunt.

Hodie est ante diem IV Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:


Numa Pomilius and the Vestales Virgines

"[Numa] chose virgin priestesses for Vesta. This priesthood
originated at Alba and was not therefor alien to the founder of
Rome. So that these priestesses should be able to devote their whole
time to temple service, he provided them with an income from public
funds; he conferred a special sanctity on them by ritual obligations,
including the keeping of their virginity." ~ Titus Livius 1.20

"At first, they say, Numa consecrated Gegania and Verania, followed
by Canuleia and Tarpeia... Numa gave them great honors, among which
was the right to make a will during the lifetime of their father and
to deal with their other affairs without the need for a guardian,
like mothers of three children." ~ Plutarch, Life of Numa 10.1; 10.3

"But as to the method and ritual for choosing a Vestal, there are, it
is true, no ancient written records, except that the first to be
appointed was chosen by Numa. There is, however, a lex Papia that
provides that twenty maidens be selected from the people at the
discretion of the Pontifex Maximus, that a choice by lot be made from
their number in the comitia calata, and that the girl whose lot is
drawn be "taken" by the Pontifex Maximus and becomes a priestess of
Vesta. But that allotment in accordance with the lex Papia is usually
unnecessary at present. For if any man of respectable birth goes to
the Pontifex Maximus and offers his daughter for the priestesshood,
provided consideration may be given to her candidacy without
violating any religious requirements, the Senate grants him exemption
from the lex Papia." ~ Gellius, Noctes Atticae 1.12.11-12

Following the expulsion of the Tarquinii, the Numa tradition was
supposedly restored by a lex Postuma. The Numa tradition had to be
restored again sometime later by what was called the lex Papia. This
lex Papia was not the lex Papia Poppaea of 250 BCE. Instead it is
thought that the lex Papia is what Livy referred to when discussing
how the oral tradition of the Pontifices, extending back to Numa
Pompilius, had to be written down following the Gallic sack of Rome
in 390 BCE. Postumus and Papius were Pontifices Maximi of earlier
eras. What is interesting in Gellius' account is how it confirms
other evidence of the authority of the Senate over pontifical decreta
and over the Pontifices themselves.


Today's thought is from Heracleitus, Fragment 102, in Porhyrius I
Iliadem IV 4.

"To God all things are beautiful and good and just, but men have
supposed some things to be unjust, others just."

For anyone that have interested to visit the Rome Festival in Bulgaria,the magazine ARCHEOLOGIA VIVA organizes a thematic travels in Bulgaria in occasion of the event. The program can be follow here:
http://www.archeologiaviva.it/index.php/events/97/BULGARIA%3Cbr%3EL'aquila_sul_Danubio.html

---------------------------------

---------------------------------
L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Consuls M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus
sends Salutations to the Conscript Fathers and Mothers of the Senate,
to the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, and to All others:

With the Senate lending its support to the Consules by passage of a
senatus consultus, reported by Tribuna Plebis L. Livia Plauta as of
29 Jan. 2761, the following Edictum Consularis is hereby proclaimed:

All owners of any and all email lists determined in this edictum as
necessary to the administration of Nova Roma are hereby instructed to
approve without exception the requests of all Senatores and
Senatrices to subscribe to said lists.

These lists currently shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com".

Upon the advice of the Senate, the Consules may include other lists
as subject to this edictum, or inform list owners of lists mentioned
in this edictum that they shall be exempt from its provisions.

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a
specified list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, list
owners are nevertheless instructed to subscribe members of the
Senate upon their request, although the list owners may under such
circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in this edictum shall be any private lists of a
semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold
discussions with their advisors and appointees. This provision does
not, however, exclude privately owned lists of priestly officers
whose lists have already been determined by senatus consultus as
necessary to the administration of the religious institutions of Nova
Roma, and are thus specified in the senatus consultus and this
Edictum Consularis IV.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under my hand this 5th day of January 2008 CE in the Consulship
of M. Moravius Piscinus and T. Iulius Sabinus

_____________

EX OFFIO CONSULARIS

M. Moravius Piscinus, Consul et Pontifex, M. Cassio Juliano,
Pontifici Maximo, Pontificibus et Auguribus SPD:

In accordance with the senatus consultus approved by the Senate, and
reported by Tribuna L. Livia Plauta on 29 January 2761, Senate Agenda
Item VII of the January Senate Session, 2761, and in accordance with
Edictum Consularis IV that has been issued by the Consules this day,
you are hereby instructed to subscribe all Senatores and Senatrices
who, since 1 December 2760, have requested that they be subscribed to
the lists named below, but who, through the neglect of their duties
by list owners, had their requestes allowed to elapse.

For the following lists:

the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com",
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com",
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com",
the "RPriesthood@yahoogroups.com",

list owners will now and forthwith "approve without exception" the
requests of any and all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to the
lists given above.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under my hand this 29th day of January 2008 CE in the
Consulship of M. Moravius Piscinus and T. Iulius Sabinus

Ave honored Consuls quod Conscript Paters et Maters;

On 1/29/08, marcushoratius wrote:
>
> [excise edict]

And, as always, one and all are welcome to subscribe to the cooks' and
brewers' society list.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

It is a low volume list, but the discussions have been high quality,
which gives me a great deal of pride in the membership.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum

Salvus sis,

I second Severus - we all need you and the Muses love your poetry!
I shall keep you in my prayers to Vesta and wish you a quick and complete recovery.

Vale bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

M•IVL•SEVERVS <marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
Salve Venator,

I wish you a quick recovery. Nova Roma needs you, dear friend. We all need you!

Optime vale,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Venator,


I was sorry to see that you are ill. I hope that your doctor can find
the cause and that it is not too serious. I will say a prayer for you.

Vale,

Marcus Hirtius Ahenobarbus

Salve


Some years ago, when i arrived in NR (july, 2000 CE),
a sole citizen was responsible for the entire gens.
For the Gens Arminia, a certain Gaius Arminius (i
believe that he was the first Arminius of NR) choose
Mars for the patron deity for all the Arminii.
However, i dont believe that he done regular worship
for Mars.

Later, he disappeared, and i received the
un-historical "Gens Leadership". I wrote that the
patron deities should be the old capitoline triad,
Jupiter - Mars - Quirinus. Again, no regular worship
or ceremony done.

Finally, the Gens-based structure in Nova Roma was
broken, and every family inside each gens was free to
choose their own favorite deities.

Currently, the Arminii Maiores are somewhat inactive
in the religious side, more inclined towards
agnosticism.


Marcus Arminius Maior


--- Andreas Lachmann <pagermanicvs@...>
escreveu:

>
> Salvete,
> I wonder.Do the Arminii have a special bond to any
> particular god ?
> Maybe a fellow member of our gens can help me with
> this one.
> Valete,D.Arm.Brvtvs

Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento!
http://br.mail.yahoo.com/

Salvete


--- cassius622@... escreveu:

> Salvete,
> ITEM III: Removal of Lictors
> The following Lictores have bouncing addresses and
> cannot be
> contacted: removed themselves from the Comitia
> Curiata and have
> become uncontactable:
>
> Edwin_Tompkins@... Edwinus Planincolus Ravennanus
> Constantius
> qccaesar@... Quintus Cornelius Caesar
> danedwardsuk@... Iunius Silanus

M.Arminius: To my knowledge, Edw. Planincolus and Q.
Cornelius hde been removed in 22 july 2004 CE, by the
Collegium Pontificum, along with 6 other ex-Lictores;
and Decimus Iunius Silanus resigned from citizenship
in 14 mar 2005 CE. Since then, 5 other Lictores
resigned (from citizenship or lictorship only), and
the last time that new lictores wer named was in 04
aug 2004 CE.

I believe that now we have 22 Lictores (out of 30),
and of them some are Capite Censi or did not voted in
the last few Comitia Curiata sessions.


Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
Lictor Curiatus


Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento!
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