Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Feb 14-21, 2008

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55081 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-02-14
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55082 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Citizenship attained! Haa zaah!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55083 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Citizenship attained! Haa zaah!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55084 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: a. d. XV Kal. Mart.: LUPERCALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55085 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: To all in the Far East, 2/15/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55086 From: titus.aquila Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55087 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55088 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : OPENING ceremony
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55089 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55090 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55091 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55092 From: Andrea Laver Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55093 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55094 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : CROSSWORD Contest
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55095 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55096 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : Venationes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55097 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55098 From: luciusjul25@yahoo.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55099 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55100 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Lupercalia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55101 From: luciusjul25@yahoo.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55102 From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55103 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55104 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55105 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55106 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55107 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Plura de Caesare
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55108 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55109 From: ajackaln Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: A new Group in Yahoo about ancient country of Persia(IRAN)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55110 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: a. d. XIV Kal. Mart.: Ver Sacrum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55111 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Venationes : congratulations and ..Athletics coming !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55112 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics running order
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55113 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55114 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: EDICTVM CENSORIVM DE SCRIBA CREANDA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55115 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics *and * Poetry contest deadline
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55116 From: Diana Thibodeaux Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55117 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Financial Report Request
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55118 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics 1/2 Finals results
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55119 From: os390account Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Senate Called to Order
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55120 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55121 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercal. ludi last day, Quirinalia and Day of the Mads
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55122 From: Adriano Rota Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Latin Course
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55123 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55124 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55125 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55126 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: Latin Course
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55127 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55128 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics 1/2 Finals LIVE REPORT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55129 From: Q·FABIA·DRVSILLA Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55130 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: a. d. XIII Kal. Mart.: Quirinalia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55131 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: QUIRINALIA : a short friendly reminder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55132 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55133 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55134 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS-TO PAVLINVS CENSOR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55135 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: LUDI Lup. : PHOTO and ESSAY contests DEADLINE reminder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55136 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55137 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics: FINALS LIVE REPORT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55138 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Crossword Contest: FINAL RESULTS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55139 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Ludi Lupercalenses : closing CEREMONY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55140 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55141 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55142 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55143 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55144 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55145 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55146 From: titus.aquila Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: YSEE - Invitation to Pagan forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55147 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Ludi Lupercalensis / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55148 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: a. d. XII Kal. Mart.: Parentalia; Hersilia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55149 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: Lupercalenses / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55150 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55151 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: North American Conventus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55152 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55153 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: EDITIO ET PETITIO ACTIONIS: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS L.EQUI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55154 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: EDITIO ET PETITIO ACTIONIS: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS L.EQUI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55155 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: FORMULA: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS LUCIUS EQUITIUS CINCINNAT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55156 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Edictum Praetoricium LIII (Complutensis XXVIII) Provincia Hispania
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55157 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55158 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: PAGO DE IMPVESTOS EN 2008 (MMDCCLXI A.V.C.)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55159 From: Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55160 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Magna Mater Project
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55161 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: Magna Mater Project
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55162 From: Igor Tasevski Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: PASSPORTS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55163 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55164 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55165 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: a. d. XI Kal. Mart.: Battle of Lugdunum, 197 CE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55166 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: North American Conventus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55167 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: FORMULA: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS LUCIUS EQUITIUS CINCI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55168 From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55169 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55170 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: PORTUGUÊS - Edictum Praetoricium LIII (Complutensis XXVIII) Provinc
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55171 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55172 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55173 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55174 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Reminder to citizen/authors, 2/19/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55175 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55176 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55177 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55178 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55179 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55180 From: Neil (L. Salix) Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55181 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO M
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55182 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Twelve tables old Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55183 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55184 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55185 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55186 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: Coins
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55187 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55188 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: a. .d X Kal. Mart.: dies Parentales
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55189 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55190 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55191 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55192 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55193 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55194 From: Bryan Griffin Junior, born Michaelangelo Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Question about Roman Flags
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55195 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55196 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55197 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55198 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55199 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55200 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Ludi Lupercalensis / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55201 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55202 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55203 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55204 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55205 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55206 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55207 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55208 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55209 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55210 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55211 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55212 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55213 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55214 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55215 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55216 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55217 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55218 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55219 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55220 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55221 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55222 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55223 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55224 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55225 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55226 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55227 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55228 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55229 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55230 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55231 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55232 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55233 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55234 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55235 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55236 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Moon Eclipse
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55237 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55238 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55239 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55240 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55241 From: M. Octavius Gracchus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55242 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55243 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: a. d. IX Kal. Mart.: Feralia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55244 From: M. Octavius Gracchus Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55245 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55246 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55247 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55248 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55249 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55250 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55251 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55252 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55253 From: M·C·C· Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55254 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55255 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: To CINCINNATUS and MODIANUS et al
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55256 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55081 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-02-14
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Salve,

You might look for Adrian Goldsworthy's "Caesar" also. Military
historian Adrian Goldsworthy is the author of numerous books about the
Roman army, including The Punic Wars, Caesar's Civil War, Cannae, The
Fall of Carthage, In the Name of Rome, Roman Warfare, and The Complete
Roman Army.

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus


On 2/14/08, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
> Salve Diana
>
> I have read Caesar, a biography, by Meier, and
> The Education of Julius Caesar by Kahn too.
>
> I like them both!
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> >From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar
> >Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:25:26 -0500
>
> >
> >Diana <dianamt5465@...> writes:
> >
> > > I was wondering if anyone knew what tribe the Caesar family is from??
> > > The Caesar's said they could trace their ancestors to the Goddess Venus,
> > > and Aeneas.
> >
> >In her Masters of Rome books, Colleen McCullough says that he was in
> >the Fabia tribe. I'm not sure what her source for that information
> >was, but she did a lot of historical research for those novels.
> >
> >I own Caesar, a biography, by Meier, and The Education of Julius
> >Caesar by Kahn. They're both worth having.
> >
> >Vale,
> >
> >CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55082 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Citizenship attained! Haa zaah!
Re: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship attained!  Haa zaah!
A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hirtio Ahenobarbo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Salvete!

As of today I, Marcus Hirtius Ahenobarbus, have attained full
citizenship in Nova Roma!

    ATS:  Hearty congratulations!

I am very excited and pleased!


    ATS:  I’m sure you are!  Now, see, that citizenship test wasn’t so hard after all, now was it?

I hope you will all wish me well in my endeavors, as I wish you well in
yours.

Later, on the suggestion of my friend A. Tullia Scholastica, I shall
drink a pint...(or two or three) with a few friends in celebration.

    ATS:  Just don’t drink TOO many of them!  One should suffice.  With a pastrami sandwich, perhaps.  Our bars, at least, MUST serve food, and often do a very fine job of preparing it.  

Valete!

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus

 Vale, et valete!
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55071;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55083 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Citizenship attained! Haa zaah!

C. Aemilius Crassus M. Hirtio Ahenobarbo SPD,

 

Welcome to Nova Roma. May your actions as Quiritis help the grow of Nova Roma and of yourself.

 

Di te incolumem custodiant. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----
From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus <marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:27:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Citizenship attained! Haa zaah!

Salvete!

As of today I, Marcus Hirtius Ahenobarbus, have attained full
citizenship in Nova Roma!

I am very excited and pleased!

I hope you will all wish me well in my endeavors, as I wish you well in
yours.

Later, on the suggestion of my friend A. Tullia Scholastica, I shall
drink a pint...(or two or three) with a few friends in celebration.

Valete!

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus




Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55084 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: a. d. XV Kal. Mart.: LUPERCALIA
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvas et servatas volunt.

Hodie est ante diem XV Kalendas Martias; haec dies nefastus publica
est: Lupercalia

"The sun transits into Pisces, sometimes with windy weather." ~
Columella, De Re Rustica 2.20

AUC 709 / 44 BCE: Caesar offered

"After the Senate decreed many of the highest honors, such as the
right to be called 'father of the fatherland' together with an
eternal inviolability and dictatorship [44 BCE], several grudges rose
against him: because he did not rise from his throne in front of the
temple of Venus Genetrix when the senators arrived to present him
with these honors; because, when his fellow consul Marc Antony,
dancing with the luperci, placed a diadem on his head, he placed it
on his throne; and because he expelled the tribunes of the plebs
Epidius Marullus and Caesetius Flavus from office after they had
caused hostility towards him, arguing that he was aiming at one man
rule." ~ Titus Livius, Perioche 116.2

The Lupercalia is one of the better known Roman festivals, perhaps
second to Saturnalia in the general public, and second only to
Parilia in how much we know of its details, if only because it was a
month to the day prior to that on which Julius Caesar was
assassinated because he had not outright refused the crown of
kingship on the Lupercalia of 44 BCE. Rather than try to go over all
the details, as there are many and many disputes over them, I shall
just give some quotes drawn from ancient sources on the Lupercalia.


: LUPERCALIA :

"After (Saturnus), third in descent, they say that Faunus was king,
in whose time Evander came into Italy from Pallanteum, a city of
Arcadia, accompanied with a small band of his countrymen, to whom
Faunus kindly gave land, and the mountain which he afterwards called
Palatium. At the foot of this mountain he built a temple to the
Lycaean god, whom the Greeks call Pan, and the Romans Lupercus, the
naked statue of the deity being covered with a goat-skin, in which
dress the priests now run up and down during the Lupercalia at Rome.
This Faunus had a wife named Fatua, who, being constantly filled with
a spirit of divination, gave notice, in fits of frenzy as it were, of
things to come; and hence, to this day, those who are accustomed to
be thus inspired, are said fatuari." ~ M. Iunianus Iustinus, Historia
43.1

"In those days, according to legend, the present festive rite of the
Lupercalia was already in existence on the Palantine Hill, which
received its name from Pallenteum, an Arcadian city, later altered to
Palatium. Once upon a time Evander had dwelt there, who was a native
Arcadian and had brought from there a custom in which naked young men
would cavort about in antic fashion in worship of Lycaeon Pan, whom
the Romans called Inuus." ~ Titus Livius, AUC 1.5.1-2


"The little ark drifted onwards towards a shadowy wood, and gradually
settled where the depth lessened. There was a tree: traces remain,
which is now called the Rumina fig, once Romulus' fig tree. A she-
wolf, newly delivered, miraculously found the abandoned twins. Who
would have thought the creature would not harm them? Far from harming
them she helped them: and a wolf fed those whom their kin would have
allowed to perish. She stayed, caressed the tender infants with her
tail, and licked their bodies with her tongue. You might know they
were sons of Mars: without fear they sucked her teats, and the milk
not meant for them. She gave her name to the place: and the place to
the Luperci. The nurse has a great reward for the milk she gave." ~
Ovidius Naso, Fasti 2.409-422


"A she-goat was sacrificed, the goat was duly butchered, to cloven
foot, horned Faunus, as a crowd had come invited to the meagre,
scanty feast. While the priests prepared the entrails, skewered on
willow spits, and dressed them wile the sun being then at the zenith
in midcourse, Romulus and his brother, and a shepherd boy, exercised
their naked bodies on the sunlit plain: in an exhibition of their
strength of arms in sport, with levers, javelins, or hurling heavy
stones. A shepherd shouted from the heights: 'Romulus, Remus, thieves
in distant fields are driving off our bullocks through the
wasteland.' No time to arm: they took opposite directions: and
meeting them Remus re-took the plunder. Returning he unskewed the
hissing entrails from their spits, saying: `None but the victor shall
eat of these.' As he said, so he did, and the Fabii joined with him.
Romulus returned, unsuccessful, finding empty tables and bare bones.
He laughed, then grieved that Remus and the Fabii, should taste
victory, where his own Quintilii could not. The tale of that deed
endures: the Luperci run this day, stripped stark naked, and the
day's success enjoys a lasting fame." ~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti 2.361-
380


"The Lupercalia, judging by the time of its celebration, it would
seem to be a feast of purification, for it is observed on the
inauspicious days of the month of February, which name can be
interpreted to mean purification, and the very day of the feast was
anciently called Febrata. But the name of the festival has the
meaning of the Greek 'Lycaea' or feast of wolves, which makes it seem
of great antiquity and derived from the Arcadians in the following of
Evander. Indeed, this meaning of the name is commonly accepted; for
it can be connected with the she-wolf of story. And besides, we see
that the Luperci begin their course around the City at the point
where Romulus is said to have been exposed. However, the actual
ceremonies of the festival are such that the reason for the name is
hard to guess. For the priests slaughter goats, and then, after two
youths of noble birth have been brought to them, some of them touch
their foreheads with a bloody knife, and others wipe the stain off as
once with wool dipped in milk. The youths must laugh after their
foreheads are wiped clean. After this they cut the goat's skin into
strips and run about, with nothing on but a girdle, striking all who
meet them as those with the tongs, and young married women do not try
to avoid their blows, fancying that they promote conception and easy
child birth. A peculiarity of the festival is that the Luperci
sacrifice a dog also

"A certain Butas, who wrote fabulous explanations of Roman customs in
elegiac verse, says that Romulus and Remus, after their victory over
Amulius, ran exultantly to the spot where, when they were babes; the
she-wolf gave them suck and that the two youths of noble birth
run, 'smiting all those whom they meet, as once with brandished
weapons, down from Alban heights, Remus and Romulus ran.' And that
the bloody sword is applied to their foreheads as a symbol of the
peril and slaughter of that day, while the cleansing of their
foreheads with milk is in remembrance of the nourishment that the
babes received. But Caius Acilius writes that before the founding of
the City Romulus and his brother once lost their flocks and after
praying to Faunus, ran forth in quest of them naked, that they might
not be impeded with sweat; and that this is the reason why the
Luperci ran about naked. If the Sacrifice is a purification, one
might say that the dog is sacrificed as being a suitable victim for
such rites, since the Greeks, in their rites of purification, carry
forth puppies for burial, and in many places make use of the rites
called 'periskulakismoi;' and if these rites are performed in
grateful remembrance of the she-wolf that nourished and preserved
Romulus, it is not without reason that the dog is slain, since it is
an enemy to wolves, unless, indeed, the animal is thus punished for
annoying the Luperci when they must run about." ~ Plutarch, Life of
Romulus, 21.3- 8


Today's thought comes from Epicurus, Vatican Saying 15:

"We place a high value on our characters as if they were our own
possessions whether or not we are virtuous and praised by other men.
So, too, we must regard the characters of those around us if they are
our friends."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55085 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: To all in the Far East, 2/15/2008, 12:00 pm
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   To all in the Far East
 
Date:   Friday February 15, 2008
Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
Location:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prov_asia_orientalis/
Notes:   If you live in the Far East, why not join your provincial mailing list? Meet fellow citizens and get active locally. Don't just lurk! Send a message, introduce yourself and get involved! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prov_asia_orientalis/

Provincial mailing lists are listed in the wiki. Go to http://novaroma.org/nr/Provincia_%28Nova_Roma%29
 
Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55086 From: titus.aquila Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani

I would like to ask our Consuls and Censors to follow up on this
matter. Especially in the 10th year of Nova Roma its citizens deserve
an official certificate of being a citizen of our Republic of Nova
Roma and an ID Card to prove ones identity when addressing other
organisations or between the citizens themselves .

We did have discussions on it, but where are the results ?

A certificate could be easily achieved, created and printed off
from the internet, but again it must be legally authorized by the
Censors for each citizen.

If it is a question of costs involved, I would be willing to pay for
a certificate or id card , so I know would other citizens.

I know Lucius Vitellius Triarius had created excellent examples how
our iD cards could look like,but they would need to be legally
authorized by Nova Roma.Let us take this step out of the Internet.

Nova Roma needs to provide us with documents every organisation
would provide to its members and we as an Sovereign Republic should
provide to our citizens.

Di vos incolumes custodiant

Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55087 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Gaius Marcius Crispus omnibus S.P.D.

I should like to support Aquila's posting about ID cards.

I recently personalised and laminated the excellent card available on
the internet that was designed by Triarius, and it does look good. But
an official version would be better still.

I too would be willing to pay for an id card so as to offset any costs
and provide a donation to the Treasury.

I look forward to further progress on this issue.

Valete optime

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55088 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : OPENING ceremony
Aed. cur. omnibus


The following opening ceremony has just begun in Cadomagus, Gallia,
at 11:45 Rome time, on this Feb. 15th.
Aed. cur. Memmius was in the center of recently excavated ancient
Aregenua's forum, capital of Viducassia civitas.
Standing before a screen bearing Nova Roma's flag, Memmius was
wearing his curule clothes.
He turned towards Rome not any civis, from East, West, South or
North, feel excluded.


The speech to the Quirites

"Quirites !

Memory day, rebirth day : here are arising our Lupercalia days !

You sure remember how important are these Lupercales days : these are
the ones to remember us our Founders Twins, Remus and Romulus, and
how they have been protected by their Mother Wolf.

As our Lupercalenses aedilician page reminds us
(http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Lupercales_2761_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29),
Lupercalia offer a special ritual, a purification and fertility one.
For Lupercalia begins on Idus Febr., the closest ides before what was
the beginning of the year, March.

So Lupercalis festival may be considered at both time as the
celebration of a dying year, and the birth of a new one,
materialized, for example, by the laugh of the two young men who had
the honor being purified by the Lupercus pontifex.

Milk and cattles helped Rome, as ancient Gaul gods did, to be
fertilized, through Its women. This is the general meaning of the
Lupercalis race, where both young men were to whip, with leather
straps, every Roman woman, specially the ones who wished to have a
child.

In this special 2761 a.u.c. year, which is Nova Roma 10th birthday
year, our Lupercalia have a second and special meaning : a story that
speaks on death and life, on forgetting and rebirth.

So let us, in our February 15th busy day, reserve a few minutes just
to remind this, to think about all centuries passed since the Twins,
all the generations born and dead, and on the flame of Rome that is
still burning inside the Vestals temple of Nova Roma.

This is why we have wished, us aediles curules, to propose you,
Quirites, an extra Ludi calendar for this 2761/2008, and, to
underline both Rome continuity and rebirth, to open this calendar
with Lupercalia and these Lupercale(nse)s games."



Aed. cur. Memmius observed twelve seconds of silence, one for every
month of the year, and retired behind the screen. Then the aedile
came back, wearing now his toga praetexta. He turned again towards
Rome.



The opening ceremony

"Quirites !

I, Publius Memmius Albucius, for myself and on the behalf of my
colleague S. Lucilius Tutor, in the frame of the powers that our
curule magistracy give us, specially for the organization of Ludi
(public games), humbly ask you to join us and our Consuls,
Magistrates and our whole Senate, to pray, with the support of our
Colleges of Priests and other religious officers, our Gods.

Look, Quirites, a sudden bright interval is occurring! This is good
omen!

I have, at dawn, at seven in our solar time, bowed towards the
shrines of our Gods and Goddesses.

Please now keep all of you, in the secret of your mind, or in the
assigned places of our temples and in your homes, in the place you
are working currently, please keep during this day a thought for
Faunus, who looks for fertility, along with Quirinus. Please also
honor Juno Lucina, who is bringing us the present light of a renewing
year and will protect our future matres and matronae.

Please keep Jupiter his whole place, which is specially to care the
efforts of every god and goddess, to balance them, to mind that
Lupercus and Mater Wolf be equally considered, and that every
contribution may help Roma dea come to birth again, though Its
community and Its women.

Please, Gods, give us the strenght to help us, Romans, bury the dying
year and celebrate, in the huge laugh of life, this arising year,
which is 10th Nova Roma's one!
Give us the energy to face the external dangers and to set up the
internal disputes! Please Gods, give us again Concordia's support to
help us in this last task!

Quirinus, please allow a long life to Fabia gens and families, a long
life to Quinctilia's!

Please Dius Pater ask all relevant Gods and Goddesses to sustain the
efforts of every Novaroman who will assist or take part in our Ludi
Lupercalenses!
May the hands be firm, the mind clear and the decisions quick!
May the animals deserve their owner, may the gladiators not refuse
danger, and may our factiones distinguished themselves! Give them,
Mars, honor and force!
May our writers and poets be inspired, Minerva, watch on them!

Last may you, Faunus, Iuno et Jupiter, with Mater Roma, and you all
Gods, forgive, during our Lupercalia games, our faults, mistakes, and
mean human behaviors : they will just underline how great you are,
and how tiny we are remaining, in your hand.

And last, allow me as aedilis curulis, and Lucilius, to humbly
declare our Ludi Lupercale(nse)s open.

Quirites, I declare our Ludi Lupercale(nse)s open !"



End of the ceremony in Cadomagus, Gallia, at 12:15 Rome time, on this
Feb. 15th. Aed. cur. Memmius has retired behind the screen.

----------------------------------

Have good Lupercalia every one !!!

For curule aedilitas,


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55089 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Is there any truth to the old story that Julius Caesar had epilepsy?
 
And in that line, does anyone know of any information on the historical views of seizures/epilepsy? I have a friend who's a history buff who has seizures, and we were joking that he was in good company with "The Royal Disease"(tm)
 
Thanks,
Vestinia


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55090 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Salvete Omnes,

I agree. The Meier book is very good, but Goldsworthy is very
readable. I highly recommend it.

I would also caution that as detailed as McCullough's reserach is,
her works are fiction. I tend to agree with Gn. Marinus that if
McCullogh says Caesar was a Fabi, it's probably right. However,
other parts of the book, such as Sulla marrying a Juli are complete
fiction.

Valete,

C. Popillius laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie Collins" <curator.svr@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> You might look for Adrian Goldsworthy's "Caesar" also. Military
> historian Adrian Goldsworthy is the author of numerous books about
the
> Roman army, including The Punic Wars, Caesar's Civil War, Cannae,
The
> Fall of Carthage, In the Name of Rome, Roman Warfare, and The
Complete
> Roman Army.
>
> Vale,
> Quintus Servilius Priscus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55091 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salve,
 
I heartedly agree with the idea of I.D Cards for the citizens of Nova Roma. Aquila makes a correct assumption that many citizens would not mind paying for I.D Cards or some sort of certificate claiming our citizenship. The one produced my Triarius was quite nice for reproduction but for some reason stalling has occured with producing the idea. The citizens deserve to have some evidence of the their citizenship whether it be an I.D Card for the wallet or certificate sized to hang up on the wall, both are great ideas and both should be produced. I say no more stalling this great idea that many citizens ask for and would be a great start especially for the 10th Anniversary of this Republic.
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus

----- Original Message ----
From: titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:13:43 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma


Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani

I would like to ask our Consuls and Censors to follow up on this
matter. Especially in the 10th year of Nova Roma its citizens deserve
an official certificate of being a citizen of our Republic of Nova
Roma and an ID Card to prove ones identity when addressing other
organisations or between the citizens themselves .

We did have discussions on it, but where are the results ?

A certificate could be easily achieved, created and printed off
from the internet, but again it must be legally authorized by the
Censors for each citizen.

If it is a question of costs involved, I would be willing to pay for
a certificate or id card , so I know would other citizens.

I know Lucius Vitellius Triarius had created excellent examples how
our iD cards could look like,but they would need to be legally
authorized by Nova Roma.Let us take this step out of the Internet.

Nova Roma needs to provide us with documents every organisation
would provide to its members and we as an Sovereign Republic should
provide to our citizens.

Di vos incolumes custodiant

Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM




Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55092 From: Andrea Laver Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Only being familiar with historical fiction (well-researched but fictional) I've heard some historians suggest that Caesar couldn't have had epilepsy since there were too few episodes reported in his life for it to be epislepsy. On the other hand your friend can definitely keep the company of Akenaten. whatever he had.


"Vestinia, called Vesta" <optia_vesta@...> wrote:
Is there any truth to the old story that Julius Caesar had epilepsy?
 
And in that line, does anyone know of any information on the historical views of seizures/epilepsy? I have a friend who's a history buff who has seizures, and we were joking that he was in good company with "The Royal Disease"(tm)
 
Thanks,
Vestinia

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55093 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)
Salve,
 
In Ancient Rome, epilepsy was known as the "morbus comitialis" or "disease of the assembly hall." If an epileptic attack was inflicted during assembly it was considered a bad omen from the Gods and the assembly would be dismissed immediately. It was also believed that epilepsy was contagious therefor no one would touch someone who was believed to have epilepsy. If someone was touced that had epilepsy the person would have to spit on the floor immediately to avoid transfer of the bad spirit. It was considered a curse from the Gods, more specifically Apollo. Although it was considered a curse, it was said that during epileptic attacks the diseased would see visions from the Gods as to what their future was and what actions they should take. Which would go with the idea that many famous people had epilepsy and could attribute their fame to visions they received from the Gods. A supposed known cure was to eat the liver or drink the blood of a dead gladiator. The gladiators were strong men therefor it was thought the strength of the gladiator would be transfered over to the diseased and it was practiced for quite some time. The fact that Iulius Caesar had epilepsy was not really quite known. It was said that he may have had some fits of the disease but not really enough to be called epileptic attacks. The idea of it being a curse from the Gods or demon spirits possesing the body existed in Ancient Babylon as well and was the idea of many ancient cultures. Today, in some tribes in Africa, it is still seen as demonic beings/evil spirits possesing the body.
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus   

----- Original Message ----
From: "Vestinia, called Vesta" <optia_vesta@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:04:33 AM
Subject: Seizures/Epilepsy (Was: Re: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar)

Is there any truth to the old story that Julius Caesar had epilepsy?
 
And in that line, does anyone know of any information on the historical views of seizures/epilepsy? I have a friend who's a history buff who has seizures, and we were joking that he was in good company with "The Royal Disease"(tm)
 
Thanks,
Vestinia


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.




Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55094 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : CROSSWORD Contest
Salvete omnes!

The Aedilitas curulis invites you to join in the first of our games
for the Ludi:

The Crossword Contest consists of a crossword puzzle, relating to
different aspects of the Lupercalia festival. The game page allows
you to print a copy of the puzzle in Adobe .pdf format that is
formatted in a printer-friendly version. Contestants will receive one
(1) point for each correct answer. Entries must be emailed to the
Aedilitas curulis with your answers (see the Ludi page). The answers
will be given on February 17th.

Link to the Crossword Game Page:
http://tinyurl.com/yq7bfn

Link to the Ludi page:
http://tinyurl.com/ypoen4


Valete optime,
L. Vitellius Triarius
Quaestor

for the Curule Aediles

Sex. Lucilius Tutor
P. Memmius Albucius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55095 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: lots of Roman gods statues!
Salvete Quirites;
I was idly looking at a site and found a few links with Tons of
statues, goodness I was surprised, the quality is better and better!
Mystic Convergence
http://www.mysticconvergence.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=12
The Plate Lady
http://www.theplatelady.com/mythology.htm
E Museum store
http://secure.emuseumstore.com/category/114/1
and my fave Soma Luna
http://www.somaluna.com/

The Plate lady has Tiberinus with Romulus and Remus, and a fantastic
Iuppiter, never seen those before.

So enjoy the Lupercalia!
optime vale
M.Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55096 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: LUPERCALENSES Games (Ludi) : Venationes
As the crowds move into the Flavian Amphitheatre, the sounds of
construction are deafening to the human ear. Dozens of workers are
frantically building the temporary Rostra for tomorrow's sprint race
around the Palatine. Due to the noise and construction, many people
have chosen NOT to show up for today's Venationes. The constant
banging and clattering of the workmen have caused several of the
contestant beasts to behave wildly and unpredictably. Officials
Because of this, most of the lanistae have chosen to forego the day's
event. The remaining supporters, the dedicated ones, have shown up
despite the construction work around the Colosseum.

Another factor in today's low turn-out is the general nature of new
competition. This being the first venations event in the Res
Publica, since the establishment of the 4 new Ludi schools, the Ludus
Albatus and Ludus Russatus are still in recruitment and training
phases. Sources from both camps advised earlier this morning that
they should be up and running for the upcoming gladiatorial and
venations events in Ludi this year. Some of the enrollees have chosen
not to participate today in light of tomorrow's sprint race around
the Palatine.

As the supporters find their seats, the Aediles, dressed in the
costume of Iuppiter with purple and gold robes, laurel crowns, and
vermillion-painted faces greet the crowd, make their welcoming
announcements. The blacksmiths are on hand to inspect the weapons to
be used in today's games. The Editor of the day's games, Quaestor
Vitellius, makes some announcements to the various lanistae, and the
first match of the games beginsÂ…



==Semi-Finals Match I==

The first match of the day consists of a goat, Yuften, owned by Gaia
Aurelia Falco Silvana of Ludus Praesinus, and Lupercius the wolf,
sponsored by Quintus Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus of Ludus Venetus.

Yuften is a mountain goat of the Atlas Mountains in North Africa in
Provincia Mauretania, his name meaning "The Best" in the language of
his homeland. Weighing in at almost 143 kg, he is very agile, and has
very strong curved horns which he can use to rip apart acacia trees
in search of food. Yuften's species, Ammotragus lervia, is regarded
as a sub-species of the goat family (capridae). He normally has a
spectacular shaggy front with hair draping from chin to chest to
feet. The rest of his tan coat is short, with fringes at the feet.

Yuften is much larger than a domestic goat, and stands as tall as a
donkey. Naturally the leader of his herd, he retained his place only
by fending off all challenging males, and by destroying predators of
all kinds. Yuften has been a challenge for the Domus' trainers at
the Ludus Praesinus. He is wise, wily and ruthless. For battle, his
horns and hooves have
been sharpened to razor edges. The trainers have taken the
precaution of clipping his front bib of hair so that dogs and wolves
will have less to seize upon if they try to drag his head down.
Though short, its thickness still provides protection.

Lupercius is a large Italian Wolf (Canis lupus italicus) also known
as an Apennine Wolf, a subspecies of the Grey Wolf of the Apennine
Mountains in Italy. He weighs in at approximately 62 kg with a height
of nearly 38 inches at the shoulder. He is one of the largest of all
the wild canids. Trainers at the Ludus Venetus stated in an interview
this morning that he is built for stamina, possessing features ideal
for long-distance travel and pursuit of his prey. His narrow chest
and powerful back and legs facilitate efficient locomotion. He is
capable of covering several miles trotting at about a pace of 10 km/h
(6 mph), and has been known to reach speeds approaching 65 km/h (40
mph) during a chase. While thus sprinting, he can cover up to 5
meters (16 ft) per bound.

Lupercius is a dominant wolf, which stands stiff legged and tall. His
ears standing erect and forward, hackles bristling slightly, and his
tail held vertically and curled toward the back, he asserts his rank
in the pack to all who are here viewing him today. As the beasts
enter the field with their trainers, Lupercius, asserting his
dominant stare at his prey, stands on its hind legs, snarls, rustles
his fur bristles, then crouches, ready to attack.

As the match begins, the beasts wildly pursue each other. Lupercius
begins to run circles around Yuften, who make a violent head butt
each time the wolf stops to make a lunge attack. Yuften seems to be
able to hold his own with the wolf. With his bib hair trimmed, Yuften
easily fends off the wolf's frontal attacks. There just doesn't seem
to be anything to grab on to. His sharpened horns carefully shredding
Lupercius' brown and gray fur, little by little, with each attack.

When the frontal attacks do not work, Lupercius shifts his tactics
and begins to pursue his prey from behind. Rapidly moving back and
forth to stay out of Yuften's view, the wolf seizes the opportunity
to make a leaping lung toward the goat's hind quarter, when the goat
stumbles and falls. This move turns out to be a seemingly fatal one
for Lupercius.

As the wolf leaps and attempts to bite the goat's hindquarter with
snarling teeth and what appears to be a ferocious bite, the goat
kicks wildly to his rear, his razor sharpened hooves striking
Lupercius in the throat and face. The wolf is down and Yuften turns
and attempts to issue the final death blow by impaling the wolf on
the points of his razor-sharp horns, but the down, but spirited wolf
make one last and effective attack, grabbing the goat by the neck and
brings the goat down with a carnivorous death bite. The crowd goes
wild and starts to chant "Luper! Luper!" Trainers from both the
Ludus Praesinus and Venetus enter the field and remove the beasts,
while the stadium staff steps in to prepare for the next match.


VICTOR: Lupercius the Wolf
Loser: Yuften the Goat



==Semi-Finals Match II==

As stadium officials ready for the next match, the next contestants
enter the arena. The Red and White, while not represented here today,
are choosing sides. The fans of Albatus are siding with the Blues,
while the supporters of the Red are supporting Ludus Venetus for the
day.

The first combatant into the arena is the Retiarius, Aghila, known
as "the Leopard," also sponsored by Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana of the
Ludus Praesinus. This gladiator was once a trade emissary for the
Kingdom of Kush, reporting directly to the former prince known as Al-
Hassassin. When Rome destroyed Kush and shipped the Queen and her
court to Rome as slaves, Aghila escaped their fate because he was on
a trade mission to Carthage. There he began training for his revenge
in small, isolated towns where no Roman would ever see the secret and
deadly techniques he mastered.

There too, he changed his name to "Aghila", because the leopard hunts
alone and is regarded as the most dangerous animal. Aghila does not
have the royal aura of command that let his prince, Al-Hassassin, use
a constant attack. As a trader in foreign lands, Aghila has often
had to extricate himself from sticky and dangerous situations. He is
a
master observer of people. Every nuance of body language speaks to
him. Because he trained in the wilds of Mauretania, he also had to
learn to read animal behavior. Aghila uses wile and guile every bit
as much as he uses force – and of force he has plenty.

Aghila was born of a Nubian lady and was a Bedouin chieftain. He has
the Nubian height and broad shoulders, with the whip-lean Bedouin
physique and endurance. When he learned that Al-Hassassin had been
killed the ring, Aghila chose to become a gladiator to avenge the
honor of his prince. In his career as a trade emissary, Aghila has
come to know most of the peoples within the Roman sphere; he
understands their fighting styles. He prizes the fighting spirit of
the Cimbri and other northerners. Like them, Aghila never, never
gives up. Be very careful of his net! His trident moves so fast it
seems invisible!

Now, his opponents enter the field. Trainers from the Ludus Matutinus
bring in a pack of five wild dogs. Captured on the plains near
Herculanum, these dogs are bred of a wild strain, trained to hunt and
kill in packs, second only to the Gray Wolves, found throughout the
Italian Peninsula. The dogs are barking wildly and with every step
attempt to break loose from their trainers and descend upon their
Bedouin prey with no mercy. As the trainers release the hounds, the
crowd jumps up, fighting with each other to get the better view.

The Bedouin braces for the attack, impaling on the trident the first
of the lot, the alpha-male, who leaps through the air at the Bedouin
with remarkable skill. But its skill is no match for the veteran
leopard-hunter. With the alpha-male down, this causes a brief
disorientation with the pack. Two dogs begin to compete for the newly-
opened position of leader of the hunting party. Aghila recognizes an
opportunity when he sees one, casts his net onto the pair, who become
completely entangled in the Bedouin's net. The remaining two dogs
start their attack, circling the Bedouin with stalking silence. The
intensity is almost too much for the crowds, who quietly wait to see
the Bedouin's fate. The fist dog makes an ill attempt to deliver a
solid bite to the Bedouin, but is promptly eliminated from the match
by Aghila. The second makes his attack and suffers the same fate as
his brethren. The crowd erupts into sheer pandemonium and yells to
the Bedouin to finish off the two remaining dogs, bound up in the
net. The Bedouin walks over to the tangled mess, looks down, and
signals for the trainers to come remove the dogs from the field. He
advises it is unnecessary to continue the match against the helpless
animals, as they have already been subdued. The crowd agrees and the
Bedouin is hailed as the Victor in what no one would argue was a
noble match, display a veteran of sheer skill and determination.


VICTOR: Aghira the Retiarius
Loses: Ludus Matutinus Fighting Dog Pack



==Finals Match==

Now a brief intermission to allow for the Finals Match preparations.
Fans are now up and moving about the Colosseum in anticipation for
the upcoming victory match. Vendors are everywhere, selling
refreshments of every kind. The musicians are now filing into the
Colosseum and taking their places for the Finals match.

The Finals match consists of the victors from the Semi-Finals
matches, Lupercius the wolf, sponsored by Quintus Vitellius Triarus
Vopiscus, and Aghira, "the Leopard" Retiarius, sponsored by Gaia
Aurelia Falco Silvana of the Ludus Praesinus.

As the combatants enter the sandy arena, a small breeze fills the air
and causes the banners to beat to a gentle, soothing rhythm. The
Editor starts the match and the wolf and the Bedouin retiarius
analyze each other. As the wolf circles his prey, the Bedouin stands
firm, never losing site of his opponent. The crowd becomes virtually
silent. This face-off continues for several minutes, until a large
crash from the construction outside the Colosseum, startles both
contestants. Lupercius sees this opportunity and lunges toward the
Bedouin, who prevents the attack with the utmost skill in the use of
his net. The fight is on. The wolf make several more unsuccessful
attempts at Aghira, who defends himself well, making a counter-attack
with each strike. Now, the Bedouin makes his move. He attempts to
smack Lupercius with the flat face of the Trident. He misses. He
tries again. He misses again. The wolf backs off and begins to circle
the Bedouin again. All of a sudden, the wolf leaps toward the Bedouin
in an attempt to make an attack on Aghira's throat, but the Bedouin,
experienced from fighting leopards in this way, sees the attack
coming. He side-steps to the left and delivers a crushing blow with
the flat side of the trident to the wolf's head. The wolf meets the
trident as if he has hit a stone wall head on with remarkable speed.
Lupercius falls to the ground dazed and disoriented. With lightening
quick speed, Aghira finishes of the valiant wolf with his trident,
and the crowd cheers with acceptance! The Bedouin drops to his knees
and offers silent prayers to his Deities.

The officials run out onto the sand and proclaim Aghira the
Venationes Victor for the Lupercales match!


VICTOR: Aghira the Retiarius
Loser: Lupercius the Wolf



==Victory Celebration==

The Aediles are now moving out onto the field with the officials and
the Victor of today's games. Quaestor Vitellius presents the Victor
with a small leather bag of denarii, Aedile Memmius presents him with
a palm branch, and Aedile Lucilius presents him with a golden bowl,
engraved with various exotic animals and beastiarii scenes. Citizens
from all over the Res Publica begin to throw coins down onto the
field. The stadium staff rush to collect the coins, which are then
placed in the Victor's award bowl. Handing the bowl to one of the
Aediles' assistants, Aghira now runs around the perimeter of the
amphitheatre, waving the palm, while the crowd cheers. The Aediles
remind everyone of tomorrow's sprint race around the Palatine, then
all exit the amphitheatre for the evening's celebrations and
festivities.

The sun sets on Roma, and a beautiful sunset it is.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55097 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Iulius Regulus
<luciusjul25@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I heartedly agree with the idea of I.D Cards for the citizens of
Nova Roma. Aquila makes a correct assumption that many citizens would
not mind paying for I.D Cards or some sort of certificate claiming our
citizenship. The one produced my Triarius was quite nice for
reproduction but for some reason stalling has occured with producing
the idea. The citizens deserve to have some evidence of the their
citizenship whether it be an I.D Card for the wallet or certificate
sized to hang up on the wall, both are great ideas and both should be
produced. I say no more stalling this great idea that many citizens
ask for and would be a great start especially for the 10th Anniversary
of this Republic.
>
> Lucius Iulius Regulus
>
Salvete

as far as I know there is no "stalling" as that mean there was a plan
at the highest level to do this, as there is no plan there is no
"stalling" , yes it is a great idea .
I would love to see it.

Valete marcus cornelius felix







> ----- Original Message ----
> From: titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:13:43 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year
of Nova Roma
>
>
> Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani
>
> I would like to ask our Consuls and Censors to follow up on this
> matter. Especially in the 10th year of Nova Roma its citizens deserve
> an official certificate of being a citizen of our Republic of Nova
> Roma and an ID Card to prove ones identity when addressing other
> organisations or between the citizens themselves .
>
> We did have discussions on it, but where are the results ?
>
> A certificate could be easily achieved, created and printed off
> from the internet, but again it must be legally authorized by the
> Censors for each citizen.
>
> If it is a question of costs involved, I would be willing to pay for
> a certificate or id card , so I know would other citizens.
>
> I know Lucius Vitellius Triarius had created excellent examples how
> our iD cards could look like,but they would need to be legally
> authorized by Nova Roma.Let us take this step out of the Internet.
>
> Nova Roma needs to provide us with documents every organisation
> would provide to its members and we as an Sovereign Republic should
> provide to our citizens.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55098 From: luciusjul25@yahoo.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salve,

I never meant "stalling" as an attack against the higher echelon of this republic, just for the simple fact that the idea has not been picked up by them to push the idea forward. I'm sure this idea has been around since before I started here. Obviously, the idea is there so why not start drawing up plans for it to become reality. Again, it was not meant as an attack against anyone just a general statement. If you or anyone else was offended then, my apologies. :-)

Lucius Iulius Regulus
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "vallenporter" <vallenporter@...>

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:58:50
To:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, Lucius Iulius Regulus
<luciusjul25@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I heartedly agree with the idea of I.D Cards for the citizens of
Nova Roma. Aquila makes a correct assumption that many citizens would
not mind paying for I.D Cards or some sort of certificate claiming our
citizenship. The one produced my Triarius was quite nice for
reproduction but for some reason stalling has occured with producing
the idea. The citizens deserve to have some evidence of the their
citizenship whether it be an I.D Card for the wallet or certificate
sized to hang up on the wall, both are great ideas and both should be
produced. I say no more stalling this great idea that many citizens
ask for and would be a great start especially for the 10th Anniversary
of this Republic.
>
> Lucius Iulius Regulus
>
Salvete

as far as I know there is no "stalling" as that mean there was a plan
at the highest level to do this, as there is no plan there is no
"stalling" , yes it is a great idea .
I would love to see it.

Valete marcus cornelius felix

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:13:43 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year
of Nova Roma
>
>
> Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani
>
> I would like to ask our Consuls and Censors to follow up on this
> matter. Especially in the 10th year of Nova Roma its citizens deserve
> an official certificate of being a citizen of our Republic of Nova
> Roma and an ID Card to prove ones identity when addressing other
> organisations or between the citizens themselves .
>
> We did have discussions on it, but where are the results ?
>
> A certificate could be easily achieved, created and printed off
> from the internet, but again it must be legally authorized by the
> Censors for each citizen.
>
> If it is a question of costs involved, I would be willing to pay for
> a certificate or id card , so I know would other citizens.
>
> I know Lucius Vitellius Triarius had created excellent examples how
> our iD cards could look like,but they would need to be legally
> authorized by Nova Roma.Let us take this step out of the Internet.
>
> Nova Roma needs to provide us with documents every organisation
> would provide to its members and we as an Sovereign Republic should
> provide to our citizens.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools. <http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping> search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55099 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Salve,
 
I have a friend who researched Caesar's life extensively for a book she is writing and the book she liked the best was Adrian Goldsworthy's book "Caesar - Life of a Colossus" published in 2006.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis


Diana <dianamt5465@...> wrote:
I was wondering if anyone knew what tribe the Caesar family is from?? The Caesar's said they could trace their ancestors to the Goddess Venus, and Aeneas.
Also, does anyone know of a good bio about Julius Caesar??


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55100 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Lupercalia
Salvete,
 
At Lupercalia, which involved purification and fertility rites, worshipers gathered at a sacred cave called the Lupercal at the foot of the Palatine Hill, where Romulus and Remus had been suckled by the she-wolf. The priest called Luperci sacrificed goats and a dog and there was an offering of Mola Salsa, the Vestals' sacred cakes, as it was prescribed that the last of the Mola Salsa was to be used at this time.
The Luperci clothed themselves with parts of the skins of the goats and ran with some of the magistrates through Rome's streets, striking everyone they met with strips of skin from the goats (februa) to make them fertile. The festival involved much revelry and was very popular. Consequently the early Church could not abolish it and so in 494 the Pope made February 15th the Feast of the Purification of the Virgin Mary.
 
Well, I can't travel to the Lupercal, but there is a cave with a very wide opening in our local mountains and this morning, I rode my horse, Romulus, to this cake and offered the last of the Mola Salsa for the health of all Nova Romans, and for the fertility of any Nova Roman wishing to have children.
No doves or any other animal appeared, but strong winds were predicted today and it was very windy all the way to the cave. The wind calmed down while I was there and it has been calm since then. Perhaps another good sign, and couldn't Nova Roma use all the good signs it can get. :)
 
May you all have a good day.
 
Valete bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
 
"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55101 From: luciusjul25@yahoo.com Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Salve,

Thanks for the website they have extremely nice statues, some I have never seen before myself. Thanks again!!!

Lucius Iulius Regulus
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>

Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:54:15
To:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] lots of Roman gods statues!


Salvete Quirites;
I was idly looking at a site and found a few links with Tons of
statues, goodness I was surprised, the quality is better and better!
Mystic Convergence
http://www.mysticco <http://www.mysticconvergence.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=12> nvergence.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=12
The Plate Lady
http://www.theplate <http://www.theplatelady.com/mythology.htm> lady.com/mythology.htm
E Museum store
http://secure. <http://secure.emuseumstore.com/category/114/1> emuseumstore.com/category/114/1
and my fave Soma Luna
http://www.somaluna <http://www.somaluna.com/> .com/

The Plate lady has Tiberinus with Romulus and Remus, and a fantastic
Iuppiter, never seen those before.

So enjoy the Lupercalia!
optime vale
M.Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55102 From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salvete,


I support the idea of issuing ID cards or certificate. I believe it
would have a psychological benefit to many memebers. Some, not all,
but some might feel a bit closer to Nova Roma having a physical
memento of their citizenship...something substantial that they can
touch.

It would be of small and simple benefit, but if it is beneficial at
all then why not have it?

I believe L. Vitellius Triarius alread created a temporary ID card
that people could download and print out. Thats something, but a
more professionally done card, (say made of plastic like a US State
ID, with a NR seal), that only real citizens could get (as anyone
going onto the Nova Roma wiki could print out a temporary card,
citizen or not), well something more along those lines would be nice
to have.


I could also see a practical benefit of such a card.

For instance, if I wanted to throw a dinner party in my province for
NR citizens I would probably advertise the party on the provincial
list, as well as the Main list.

Both lists are public however. So it is possible that, though my
intention is to only invite actual citizens...a non-citizen might
choose to show up. And I would have no expediant means of
identifying that person as a Citizen, or not.

An ID card, that is well made and only available to citizens might
offer me, at least one way, of identifying/validating the NR
Identities of those individuals arriving at the dinner party.


Of course there are other ways to check identities before anyone
would arrive, but the ID card might still be useful. Esspecially as
a means of identifying ones self as a member/citizen of NR, without
having to give out legal/national identity if you do not choose to.

There may be other benefits of an ID card in the future, when NR has
a greater presence and a larger infastructure.

However, issuance of such well made cards would be expensive.
Obviously any Citizen wishing to obtain such an ID card would have
to pay a fee, just like you would at the DMV to get a US state ID
card.

It all seems possible, and beneficial. I support the idea fully.


Valete,

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55103 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Another place to buy statures is www.sacredsource.com
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:53:42 +0000
luciusjul25@... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Thanks for the website they have extremely nice statues, some I have never
>seen before myself. Thanks again!!!
>
> Lucius Iulius Regulus
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
>
> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:54:15
> To:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] lots of Roman gods statues!
>
>
> Salvete Quirites;
> I was idly looking at a site and found a few links with Tons of
> statues, goodness I was surprised, the quality is better and better!
> Mystic Convergence
> http://www.mysticco
><http://www.mysticconvergence.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=12>
>nvergence.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=12
> The Plate Lady
> http://www.theplate <http://www.theplatelady.com/mythology.htm>
>lady.com/mythology.htm
> E Museum store
> http://secure. <http://secure.emuseumstore.com/category/114/1>
>emuseumstore.com/category/114/1
> and my fave Soma Luna
> http://www.somaluna <http://www.somaluna.com/> .com/
>
> The Plate lady has Tiberinus with Romulus and Remus, and a fantastic
> Iuppiter, never seen those before.
>
> So enjoy the Lupercalia!
> optime vale
> M.Hortensia Maior
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55104 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus"
<marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
>
> I support the idea of issuing ID cards or certificate. I believe it
> would have a psychological benefit to many memebers. Some, not all,
> but some might feel a bit closer to Nova Roma having a physical
> memento of their citizenship...something substantial that they can
> touch.
>

Salve!

Like this, for example? http://harpax.biz/coins.html

Optime vale

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55105 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "James V Hooper" <warrior44_us@...>
wrote:
>
> Another place to buy statures is www.sacredsource.com
> Vale,
> Gaius Pompeius Marcellus
>

Salvete!

Sacred Source is a vendor in our Macellum:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Sacred_Source

optime valete

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55106 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Agricola Ahenobarbo Omnibusque sal.

I am very happy to see ideas such as this proposed here. Several years
ago some of us had a similar discussion about minting coins. We
eventually got approval from the senate, but only after presenting a
clear proposal that outlined all the costs and benefits.

Speaking for myself only, I would not vote in the senate to support
any such proposal unless there was a clear mechanism to see it done.
By that I mean a reasonably detailed plan of action that would include
an estimate of the human resources needed and a breakdown of costs and
benefits. Keep in mind that our membership is worldwide.

So I hope that those of you who are interested in this will work
together to research things and write a proposal. When that is done
you should try to get it put forward in the senate. I hope that you
see this as an effort to bring your idea forward, not to discourage you.

optime valete in cura deorum


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus"
<marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
>
> I support the idea of issuing ID cards or certificate. I believe it
> would have a psychological benefit to many memebers. Some, not all,
> but some might feel a bit closer to Nova Roma having a physical
> memento of their citizenship...something substantial that they can
> touch.
>
> It would be of small and simple benefit, but if it is beneficial at
> all then why not have it?
>
> I believe L. Vitellius Triarius alread created a temporary ID card
> that people could download and print out. Thats something, but a
> more professionally done card, (say made of plastic like a US State
> ID, with a NR seal), that only real citizens could get (as anyone
> going onto the Nova Roma wiki could print out a temporary card,
> citizen or not), well something more along those lines would be nice
> to have.
>
>
> I could also see a practical benefit of such a card.
>
> For instance, if I wanted to throw a dinner party in my province for
> NR citizens I would probably advertise the party on the provincial
> list, as well as the Main list.
>
> Both lists are public however. So it is possible that, though my
> intention is to only invite actual citizens...a non-citizen might
> choose to show up. And I would have no expediant means of
> identifying that person as a Citizen, or not.
>
> An ID card, that is well made and only available to citizens might
> offer me, at least one way, of identifying/validating the NR
> Identities of those individuals arriving at the dinner party.
>
>
> Of course there are other ways to check identities before anyone
> would arrive, but the ID card might still be useful. Esspecially as
> a means of identifying ones self as a member/citizen of NR, without
> having to give out legal/national identity if you do not choose to.
>
> There may be other benefits of an ID card in the future, when NR has
> a greater presence and a larger infastructure.
>
> However, issuance of such well made cards would be expensive.
> Obviously any Citizen wishing to obtain such an ID card would have
> to pay a fee, just like you would at the DMV to get a US state ID
> card.
>
> It all seems possible, and beneficial. I support the idea fully.
>
>
> Valete,
>
> M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55107 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-15
Subject: Plura de Caesare
Plura de Caesare


A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    Ehem, opportune, as Demea said near the beginning of the Adelphoe.  We in the Facultas Litterarum have been discussing the addition of a short course on Caesar, and were wondering whether there would be sufficient interest.  This would be a short, one-semester introductory course dealing primarily with the Bellum Gallicum and accompanied by a bit of background.  The textbook has not yet been chosen; we are working on this, but it would be an annotated edition.  As this would be a Latin course, not a history one, and because Avitus has specified that the language of instruction be Latin, a working knowledge of that language would be required.  The successful completion of Grammatica Latina II, Sermo Latinus II, or a college-level course covering all of Wheelock or similar TRADITIONAL text would be required, though successful completion of at least 1.5 years of high school Latin taken before the standards dropped might suffice.  Texts such as the Cambridge Latin Series do not present enough grammar to proceed to this level, and it is highly questionable as to whether Ecce Romani does.  

    And while we are on the subject of C. Iulius, some might find a book called Party Politics in the Age of Caesar, by L. R. Taylor, U of California Press, 1968, useful for background studies.  

Valéte.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55108 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Salve
 
Along the lines of this topic, would anyone know where to find a statue of Terminus?  I read that he is simply a boundary post yet I have seen statues with a bust coming out of the post.  Any help would be appreciated.
 
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

James V Hooper <warrior44_us@...> wrote:
Another place to buy statures is www.sacredsource. com
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:53:42 +0000
luciusjul25@ yahoo.com wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Thanks for the website they have extremely nice statues, some I have never
>seen before myself. Thanks again!!!
>
> Lucius Iulius Regulus
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: "Maior" <rory12001@yahoo. com>
>
> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:54:15
> To:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] lots of Roman gods statues!
>
>
> Salvete Quirites;
> I was idly looking at a site and found a few links with Tons of
> statues, goodness I was surprised, the quality is better and better!
> Mystic Convergence
> http://www.mysticco
><http://www.mysticco nvergence. com/index. php?act=viewDoc& amp;docId= 12>
>nvergence.com/ index.php? act=viewDoc& docId=12
> The Plate Lady
> http://www.theplate <http://www.theplate lady.com/ mythology. htm>
>lady.com/mythology .htm
> E Museum store
> http://secure. <http://secure. emuseumstore. com/category/ 114/1>
>emuseumstore. com/category/ 114/1
> and my fave Soma Luna
> http://www.somaluna <http://www.somaluna .com/> .com/
>
> The Plate lady has Tiberinus with Romulus and Remus, and a fantastic
> Iuppiter, never seen those before.
>
> So enjoy the Lupercalia!
> optime vale
> M.Hortensia Maior
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55109 From: ajackaln Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: A new Group in Yahoo about ancient country of Persia(IRAN)
with Moderator`s permission,


Hi,


I have created a new group in the Yahoo! about the ancient country of
IRAN. in this group we have discussions, photos, files and historical
stories of this great ancient country. come and visit the REAL IRAN
vistually, I gaurranty you`d love it!


Did you know that Iran still is a mysteriuos country to most people
around the world?

if you wanna know more and real facts about this mystery , you`re
welcome to join,

this is the link :


http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/Persian_empire/


I`m looking forward to see you there.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55110 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: a. d. XIV Kal. Mart.: Ver Sacrum
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas Martias; haec dies endotercisus est:

Today is one of the few days, only eight throughout the year, that is
noted as being "cut into three parts," Endotercisus. The morning,
lasting from midnight to sunrise, and the evening, lasting from
sunset to midnight, were regarded as dies nefastus. Generally this
would be the times when rites for the dead would take place, but such
rites are discouraged from being carried out on this date. The
middle third of the day, from sunrise to sunset, is regarded as dies
fastus. Morning sacrifice was to be offered just after sunrise, but
the stretching of the viscera over the altar fires did not take place
until evening just before sunset. And all undertakings made during
this period were thought to be blessed.


AUC 536 / 217 BCE: Sacred Spring is vowed.

"After these resolutions had been passed in the senate the praetor
consulted the pontifical college as to the proper means of giving
effect to them, and L. Cornelius Lentulus, the Pontifex Maximus,
decided that the very first step to take was to refer to the people
the question of a 'Sacred Spring,' as this particular form of vow
could not be undertaken without the order of the people. The form of
procedure was as follows: 'Is it,' the praetor asked the
Assembly, 'your will and pleasure that all be done and performed in
manner following? That is to say, if the commonwealth of the Romans
and the Quirites be preserved, as I pray it may be, safe and sound
through these present wars-to wit, the war between Rome and Carthage
and the wars with the Gauls now dwelling on the hither side of the
Alps-then shall the Romans and Quirites present as an offering
whatever the spring shall produce from their flocks and herds,
whether it be from swine or sheep or goats or cattle, and all that is
not already devoted to any other deity shall be consecrated to
Jupiter from such time as the senate and people shall order.
Whosoever shall make an offering let him do it at whatsoever time and
in whatsoever manner he will, and howsoever he offers it, it shall be
accounted to be duly offered. If the animal which should have been
sacrificed die, it shall be as though unconsecrated, there shall be
no sin. If any man shall hurt or slay a consecrated thing unwittingly
he shall not be held guilty. If a man shall have stolen any such
animal, the people shall not bear the guilt, nor he from whom it was
stolen. If a man offer his sacrifice unwittingly on a forbidden day,
it shall be accounted to be duly offered. Whether he do so by night
or day, whether he be slave or freeman, it shall be accounted to be
duly offered. If any sacrifice be offered before the senate and
people have ordered that it shall be done, the people shall be free
and absolved from all guilt therefrom.' To the same end the Great
Games were vowed at a cost of 333,333 1/3 ases, and in addition 300
oxen to Jupiter, and white oxen and the other customary victims to a
number of deities. When the vows had been duly pronounced a litany of
intercession was ordered, and not only the population of the City but
the people from the country districts, whose private interests were
being affected by the public distress, went in procession with their
wives and children." ~ Titus Livius, AUC 22.10

AUC 558 / 195 BCE: Sacred Spring performed twenty-two years later

"In the previous year a Sacred Spring had been observed, and the
Pontifex Maximus P. Licinius reported to the pontifical college that
its observance had not been properly carried out. The college
authorized him to bring the matter to the notice of the Senate, and
they decided that there should be an entirely fresh observance under
the direction of the pontiffs. The Great Games, which had been vowed
at the same time, were also ordered to be celebrated, and the usual
outlay incurred upon them. The victims to be offered included all the
cattle born between 1st March and 1st May during the consulship of P.
Cornelius and Tiberius Sempronius. Â…The Sacred Spring and the Games,
vowed by Servius Sulpicius Galba, were duly carried out." ~ Titus
Livius, AUC 34.44


Today's thought comes from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 29:

"To speak frankly as I study nature I would prefer to speak in
oracles that which is of advantage to all men even though it be
understood by none, rather than to conform to popular opinion and
thus gain the constant praise that comes from the many."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55111 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Venationes : congratulations and ..Athletics coming !
Aed. cur. P. Memmius Albucius omnibus s.d.

Now that the victory ceremony is over, let me congratulate again both
actors of the finals : Aghira the retiarius and Lupercius the wolf.
A man and a wolf in finals : what better summary of our Lupercalia, of
Rome, and of our games?

After these venationes, handled so well by Quaestor Vitellius, are now
coming today the semi-finals of our 1st Athletics race!

Eight runners are preparing and eating now a light lunch, and will run
from 4 to 5 pm Rome time, this afternoon, in Circus Flaminius, in two
semi-finals (finals tomorrow 16th, same hour).

It is now fresh but sunny in Rome, and the weather will be steady this
afternoon.

The starting order of these Lupercalenses athletics is to be issued
soon.

Valete omnes !


Aed. Albucius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
(..)> VICTOR: Aghira the Retiarius
> Loser: Lupercius the Wolf
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55112 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics running order
Aed. cur. Albucius omnibus s.d.

The collegium athleticum has drawn lots for the Athletics semi-finals
this afternoon, from 4 to 5 pm, in Circus Flaminius.

The distance is the Olympic classical one : 1 stadium (203 meters).
The runners will compete along the circus's spina, with the sun in
their back.

At the present time, every runner is to run.

The ordo is :

1st semi-final

Lane 1 (rails) : Lucius VQ who specially invoked Jupiter
2 : Rutilus who specially invoked Juno
3 : Vopiscus who specially invoked Juno
4 : Rapax who specially invoked Mars

Who Juno will help more.... ?!


2nd semi-final

Lane 1 (rails) : Celera who specially invoked Juno
2 : Crassus who specially invoked Quirinus
3 : Celer who specially invoked Mars
4 : Marcus VQ who specially invoked Jupiter.


Quaestor Vitellius will give you additional informations on our
runners before the races.

The 1st and 2nd of each semi-finals will run for the Grand Finals
tomorrow at 4:45 pm. Before, at 4 pm the Minor Finals will be run
between the runners arrived 3rd and 4th of each of these semi-finals.
A full results, from 1st to 8th, will thus be issued for the whole
contest.

Good luck to all the athlets ! Honor and velocity !

Quirites, come and support them ! Hot drinks available.


Valete omnes !


Aed. Albucius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55113 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
Salve Diana,
 
Please sign your emails. I don't want anyone to mistake us.
Thanks in advance!
Diana Octavia
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar

I was wondering if anyone knew what tribe the Caesar family is from?? The Caesar's said they could trace their ancestors to the Goddess Venus, and Aeneas.

Also, does anyone know of a good bio about Julius Caesar??

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55114 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: EDICTVM CENSORIVM DE SCRIBA CREANDA
EDICTVM CENSORIVM DE SCRIBA CREANDA

Ex hoc, civem A. Tulliam Scholasticam scribam creo.

By this edict, I appoint A. Tullia Scholastica as scriba.

Nullum ius iurandum ab ea poscetur.

No oath will be required of her .

Hoc edictum ilico valet.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Datum sub manu mea a.d. XIV Kal. Mar

Given under my hand a.d. XIV Kal. Mar, (16 February 2761) at 15:00 CET in
the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55115 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics *and * Poetry contest deadline
P. Memmius Albucius aed. cur. omnibus s.d.

Woo ! What races we have just seen in Flaminius ! I have been very
impressed by the runners.
For those of us who could not be in the crowd which is now flowing
outside through the doors of the Circus, you will be informed by
Quaestor Vitellius of the results of these both wonderful semi-finals.
Finals tomorrow same hour !


A last word, before I go back to my ceremonial duties : do not forget
the POETRY DEADLINE : MIDNIGHT this evening, ROME time (so for ex.
around 2 pm today for California etc.)!!!

Have if necessary a last glance for this, at :

http://novaroma.org/nr/Literary_Contest_I_~_Ludi_Lupercales_2761_AUC_%
28Nova_Roma%29



Valete omnes,


Albucius aedilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55116 From: Diana Thibodeaux Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
ok, thanks for the advice.
Diana of  Protector of the Vulnerable

Diana Aventina <diana@...> wrote:
Salve Diana,
 
Please sign your emails. I don't want anyone to mistake us.
Thanks in advance!
Diana Octavia
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Julius Caesar

I was wondering if anyone knew what tribe the Caesar family is from?? The Caesar's said they could trace their ancestors to the Goddess Venus, and Aeneas.
Also, does anyone know of a good bio about Julius Caesar??


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55117 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Financial Report Request
Salvete Nova Romans

I am endeavoring to find financial information from years past.
We are in need of the following reports. If you have any of them please
forward them to me at spqr753@... Thanks

For the year MMDCCLIX a.u.c.2759/2006

First quarter treasury report
Second quarter treasury report
Third quarter treasury report


For the year MMDCCLVIII 2758/2005

First quarter treasury report
Second quarter treasury report
Third quarter treasury report
Four quarter treasury report

For the Year MMDCCLVII a.u.c. 2757/2004

Second quarter treasury report
Third quarter treasury report
Four quarter treasury report


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55118 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics 1/2 Finals results
Aed. cur. Albucius Athletis Ludis omn.que s.d.


Qu. Vitellius being in the jams of Circus Flaminius's way out, here
are the semi-finals results. You will soon may read a more complete
narrative on both races, and the mood in Circus Flaminius around them.

Lenght : 1 stadium (= 203 meters)

Semi finals 1 Lane Arrival Time
Lucius V.Q. 1 3 21 '' 91
Rutilus 2 4 21 '' 93
Vopiscus 3 1 21 '' 66
Rapax 4 2 21 '' 83

Semi finals 2 Lane Arrival Time
Celera 1 2 21 '' 53
Crassus 2 4 21 '' 73
Celer 3 3 21 '' 83
Marcus V.Q. 4 1 21 '' 98

Qualified for the :

Minor Finals 17th Feb. Lane
Lucius V.Q. 2
Rutilus 1
Crassus 3
Celer 4

Finals 17th Feb. Lane
Vopiscus 2
Rapax 3
Marcus V.Q. 4
Celera 1

nb: the races have been run in a blind system, where the races
operator did not know who ran, and who ran for who. The ordo cursus
(lanes) has been defined by dice throwing, and this ordo assigned to
the order defined by a 92 Sega computer program called 'Olympic
games' (1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc). The computer has run automatically the
race, and its results translated in the reverse way. The times
obtained through the 100 m computer race have been perequated (10''
into 21'') to obtain a possible running time in the conditions of
Circus Flaminius.

Congratulations to every athlet, Ludi for their support, and their
praesides for their involvment.

Finals tomorrow : the ranking is yet important, specially in the
sight of this year running contests !

Valete athletae, ludi et omnes,


Albucius aed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55119 From: os390account Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Senate Called to Order
Tribunus Plebis Q. Valerius Callidus quiritibus S.P.D.

Consul T. Iulius Sabinus has called the Senate to order.

This is the message he posted to the Senate list:

SALVETE!

Consul edicit ut Senatus frequens adsit:

The auspicia having been taken by M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus,
"Aves admittunt!" These results having been confirmed by the Augur K.
Fabius Buteo Modianus: I come seeking the advice of the Senate on the
following agenda.

The Senate shall be called into session during the second hour (08.30
hrs. CET) on Tuesday 19 February 2761, with discussions to continue
until approximately the end of the day (16.00 hrs CET) on Friday 22
February 2761.
That is, hora secunda dies Martis a.d. XI Kal. Mar. MMDCCLXI a.U.c to
the conclusion of hora duodecima dies Veneris a.d. VIII Kal. Mar.
MMDCCLXI a.U.c.

Voting on the Agenda will then begin in the first hour at 07.30 hrs
CET on Monday 25 February 2761 and conclude at 16.00 hrs CET on
Tuesday 26 February 2761.
That is, hora prima dies Lunae a.d. bis VI Kal. Mar. MMDCCLXI a.U.c
until hora duodecima dies Martis a.d. V Kal. Mar. MMDCCLXI a.U.c.
Senatores and Senatrices should not vote during night time hours of
their respective locations.

Useful link:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/


-----------
Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item I.
The Senate can decree irregular holidays, feriae imperativae.

With the 10th Nova Roma anniverssary the Senate of Nova Roma proclaim
the Kalendas Martiae MMDCCLXI a.U.c ( 1st of March 2761 a.U.c) as Nova
Roma holiday:Concordialia.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item II.
Appointment of governors.

1a. Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia as legata pro praetore of provincia
America Austroccidentalis.
1b. Flavius Galerius Aurelianus as legatus pro praetore of provincia
America Austrorientalis.
1c. Julilla Sempronia Magna as legata pro praetore of provincia
America Boreoccidentalis.
1d. Gaia Sempronia Graccha Volentia as legata pro praetore of
provincia America Medioccidentalis Superior.
1e. Decimus Cassius Lupus as legatus pro praetore of provincia Argentina.
1f. Gaia Iulia Felix as legata pro praetore of provincia Asia Citerior.
1g. Marcus Lucretius Agricola as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Asia Ulterior.
1h. Marcus Flavius Aurelius as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Australia.
1i. Titus Arminius Genialis as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Brasilia.
1j. Aulus Apolonius Cordus as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Britannia.
1k. Gnaeus Iulius Caesar as legatus pro praetore of provincia Canada
Occidentalis.
1l. Lucius Aurelius Severus as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Canada Orientalis.
1m. Titus Iulius Sabinus as consul of provincia Dacia.
1n. Publius Memmius Albucius as legatus pro praetore of provincia Gallia.
1o. Marcus Curiatius Complutensis as praetor of provincia Hispania.
1p. Franciscus Apulus Caesar as praefectus of Italia.
1q. Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus as proconsul of provincia Lacus Magni.
1r. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus as proconsul of provincia Mediatlantica.
1s. Marcus Iulius Severus as praetor of provincia Mexico.
1t. Annia Minucia Marcella as legata pro praetore of provincia Nova
Britannia.
1u. Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus as legatus pro praetore of provincia
Panonnia.
1v. Marcus Octavius Corvus as legatus pro praetore of provincia Sarmatia.
1x. Caius Curius Saturninus as legatus pro praetore of provincia Thule.

Note: Legatus pro praetore of provincia Germania, T. Flavius Aquila,
was appointed in December last year.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item III.
Appointments of interpreters.

3a. According lex Cornelia de linguis publicis, creation of the office
of Romanian interpreter and appointment of T. Iulius Sabinus as it
first interpreter.

3b. According lex Cornelia de linguis publicis, creation of the office
of Russian interpreter and appointment of Marcus Octavius Corvus as it
first interpreter.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item IV.
Special thanks to Senator Marcus Minucius Audens.

The Senate extends its special thanks to Senator Marcus Minucius
Audens for his many years of promoting roman virtues and roman way
inside and outside Nova Roma, assisting new citizens and of service as
Senior Editor of Nova Roma official publications.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item V.
Authorisation for events.

For a good collaboration with institutions, universities, museums,
other organizations or groups with roman related interest, but not
limited to these, and, in order to organize an event or to participate
to one, a nova roman citizen, in his name or in a group of nova roman
citizens name, can apply sending to the consuls a petition to obtain
an authorization to represent Nova Roma as a non-profit association to
that event.
Petition must include:
- a description of the event and the dates when the event is organized.
- the purpose of the event.
- the nova roman participants names and how the event will contribute
to Nova Roma cultural development.
Consuls can approve that authorization after a preliminary
consultation with censors about these minimal requirements about
applicant:
- if the applicant is nova roman citizen from one year and is assidui.
- the applicant has experience in one of Nova Roma office including
apparitorii.
- the applicant proved a good moral conduit during the time.
The authorization has a limited validity from one month to three
months depending by each specific case.
The authorization is valid only for the event described in petition
and is approved in concordance with the event mentioned purposes.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item VI.
Creation of the Nova Roma Senate External Relations committee.

According to the Senatus Consultum on permanent standing committees
points I a & c, the Senate Relations committee is created.
The Senate Relations committee will make recommendation on any and all
aspects in connection with Nova Roma international relations including
but not limited to other organizations or groups with roman related
interest.
All rules established in the Senatus Consultum on permanent standing
committees are valable for this Relations committee.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------
Quod bonum felixque sit populo Romano Quiritium, referimus ad vos,
Patres et Matres conscripti:

Item VII.
Number of members in Senate committees.

According to Senatus Consultum on permanent standing committees point
II.e :
" Committees shall consist of an odd number of senators, with no fewer
than three and no more than seven senators in any given committee.
Consuls and Praetors shall not count toward the membership numbers of
the committee unless they have been appointed as permanent members of
that committee in a previous year."
and II.d :
"d. Membership on each committee shall be by consular appointment,
with no consulship appointing any more than three members to any given
committee."

This year consuls can nominate one member more in that committes where
is necessary to complete the odd number of members.

De ea re fieri placet?
----------------------------

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55120 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Salvete omnes,
 
We the Praetores of Nova Roma have received a petitio actionis from Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul, against Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Augur, Pontifex et Augur, and we are ready to accept it, in the first valid date available.
 
Valete,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55121 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Lupercal. ludi last day, Quirinalia and Day of the Mads
Albucius aed. cur. omnibus s.d.

Here is coming already the third and last day of our Lupercale(nse)s
Ludi!

After having honored Dea Roma yesterday, we are placing our Ludi day
under Quirinus's protection.

For this is Quirinalia today !

This last day will be a busy one :

Photo Contest: deadline on midnight this 17th
Literary Contest III: idem
Sprint Race ~ Minor and major finals
Crossword Puzzle Contest: solution in the evening
Closing Ceremony, at last.

More details at :
http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Lupercales_2761_AUC_%28Nova_Roma%29.

At dawn, I will, in the silence of this winter cold sunday morning,
pray our Quirinus, our protecting and feeding God, our god of unity
and community. I will pray him so that he let us live a new Stultorum
Feriae (Festival of the Mads), this kind of symbolic parenthesis,
mirror of December Saturnalia, closing the ancient year, when the
order of our society is upset for one day, when everything is mixed
as in a summary of the whole past year.
As Quirinus is a benevolens deus, I am sure that he will allow us,
once again, this very strange day. And I will then say, low but firm
voice:

"Lux hodie, lux laetitiae! Laeta volunt quicumque colunt stultaria
festa."

Valete bene omnes! Have good Quirinalia, and be proud Stulti (mads)
Romani!!!


Albucius aed.








Valete omnes,


Albucius aed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55122 From: Adriano Rota Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: Latin Course
C.Aquillius Rota cordo salutem plurimam dicit,
 
Dear Tullia Scholastica I wonder how I can take a Latin course with you. I am now a civis and I want to learn the language.
What is to be done and how does it work?
 
Di te incolumem costodiant

----- Original Message ----
From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:50:24 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Plura de Caesare




A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    Ehem, opportune, as Demea said near the beginning of the Adelphoe.  We in the Facultas Litterarum have been discussing the addition of a short course on Caesar, and were wondering whether there would be sufficient interest.  This would be a short, one-semester introductory course dealing primarily with the Bellum Gallicum and accompanied by a bit of background.  The textbook has not yet been chosen; we are working on this, but it would be an annotated edition.  As this would be a Latin course, not a history one, and because Avitus has specified that the language of instruction be Latin, a working knowledge of that language would be required.  The successful completion of Grammatica Latina II, Sermo Latinus II, or a college-level course covering all of Wheelock or similar TRADITIONAL text would be required, though successful completion of at least 1.5 years of high school Latin taken before the standards dropped might suffice.  Texts such as the Cambridge Latin Series do not present enough grammar to proceed to this level, and it is highly questionable as to whether Ecce Romani does.  

    And while we are on the subject of C. Iulius, some might find a book called Party Politics in the Age of Caesar, by L. R. Taylor, U of California Press, 1968, useful for background studies.  

Valéte.




Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55123 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Salve Agrippa;
being such a rustic god, that is the best iconic
representation...Have you seen any statues of herms? I haven't, not
even in an academic archive.
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> Salve
>
> Along the lines of this topic, would anyone know where to find a
statue of Terminus? I read that he is simply a boundary post yet I
have seen statues with a bust coming out of the post. Any help would
be appreciated.
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55124 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-16
Subject: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Salve Praetors

So let me see it I have this right they are to be two court cases against
Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Augur one brought by a Censor and now a
new one brought by a Consul but no case against Maior that was brought
before she became a magistrate.

And they say the justice is blind.

Woe unto Nova Roma and so much for Concordia.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


>From: "M�IVL�SEVERVS" <marcusiuliusseverus@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova Roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] PETITIO ACTIONIS
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:50:59 -0800 (PST)
>
>Salvete omnes,
>
> We the Praetores of Nova Roma have received a petitio actionis from
>Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul, against Lucius Equitus
>Cincinnatus Augur, Pontifex et Augur, and we are ready to accept it, in the
>first valid date available.
>
> Valete,
>
>
>M�IVL�SEVERVS
>PR�TOR�NOV��ROM�
>
>SENATOR
>PR�TOR�PROVINCI��MEXICO
>SCRIBA�CENSORIS�K�F�B�M
>INTERPRETER
>MVS�VS�COLLEGII�ERATOVS�SODALITATIS�MVSARVM
>SOCIVS�CHORI�MVSARVM
>
>---------------------------------
>Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55125 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
-M. Hortensia Ti. Galerio spd;

the cases were brought by two religious officials against
Cincinnatus, because he barred Modianus augur from the yahoo group
which is the official one for the College of Augurs.

The augurs must act together as a college to give decisions when
asked by the Senate.

Now since you are a Censor I am shocked by your attitude to the
State Cultus, which cannot function properly without a College of
Augurs.


As for my case, Gn. Equitius Marinus dropped it. He is free to bring
it up any time. I am innocent and have no worries or qualms. But
frankly I would rather honour Dea Concordia with him.


Finally today is the Quirinalia; it is a dies Nefastus Publici,
which means a holiday for all citizens and a feria dedicated to
Quirinus, the god of the Roman People! It is not the time to post
woe-type messages!

as a magistrate, a censor, if you cannot support and respect the
Gods, the State Cultus I suggest you step down.

At the very least read the calendar!!!!
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI#FEBRVARIVS

May Quirinus be propitious to Nova Roma and all
the Quirites!
M. Hortensia Maior


> So let me see it I have this right they are to be two court cases
against
> Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Augur one brought by a Censor and now a
> new one brought by a Consul but no case against Maior that was
brought
> before she became a magistrate.
>
> And they say the justice is blind.
>
> Woe unto Nova Roma and so much for Concordia.
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> >From: "M•IVL•SEVERVS" <marcusiuliusseverus@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Nova Roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] PETITIO ACTIONIS
> >Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:50:59 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Salvete omnes,
> >
> > We the Praetores of Nova Roma have received a petitio actionis
from
> >Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul, against Lucius
Equitus
> >Cincinnatus Augur, Pontifex et Augur, and we are ready to accept
it, in the
> >first valid date available.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> >
> >M•IVL•SEVERVS
> >PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ
> >
> >SENATOR
> >PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
> >SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
> >INTERPRETER
> >MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> >SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55126 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: Latin Course
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Course

 A. Tullia Scholastica C. Aquilio Rotae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

C.Aquillius Rota cordo salutem plurimam dicit,
 
Dear Tullia Scholastica I wonder how I can take a Latin course with you. I am now a civis and I want to learn the language.

    ATS:  Good!  That is a proper thing to do.  

What is to be done and how does it work?

    ATS:  All of our courses are offered through the Academia Thules.  One has to access their site and obtain an identity and password from Saturninus, then register for the courses in question.  The Caesar course is tentative at this point, though it would be a good addition to our offerings.  Consequently, it is not listed on the facultas litterarum portion of the site.  However, the introductory courses, Grammatica Latina I, Grammatica Latina II, Sermo Latinus I, Sermo Latinus II, Sermo Latinus I & II combined, Rudimenta Latina (not a language course per se) and Saturninus’ literature course are listed there.  You just have to follow the procedures outlined on the site...but enrollment is possible only at certain specified times of year, and this is not one of them.  After Saturninus or someone makes an announcement, enrollment should be possible until the courses begin, at which time registration is closed.  All courses are now in session, and cannot be entered.  Avitus’ Sermo courses should resume around mid-October, and  my Grammatica ones around mid-September; the Rudimenta course may have one more run this academic year.  Avitus was going to offer a more advanced course as well, and one of these years we might get someone to teach at least elementary Greek.  We are looking for volunteers to teach classics-related courses, and other assistants (correctors, etc.).  Please note that Caesar and other advanced courses have prerequisites; our advanced courses are taught in Latin.  Avitus’ combined course has just reached the point at which they will be taught in Latin henceforth...
 
Di te incolumem costodiant

Et tu, et vos omnes bonae voluntatis!


----- Original Message ----
From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:50:24 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Plura de Caesare




A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus, sociís, peregrínísque bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    Ehem, opportune, as Demea said near the beginning of the Adelphoe.  We in the Facultas Litterarum have been discussing the addition of a short course on Caesar, and were wondering whether there would be sufficient interest.  This would be a short, one-semester introductory course dealing primarily with the Bellum Gallicum and accompanied by a bit of background.  The textbook has not yet been chosen; we are working on this, but it would be an annotated edition.  As this would be a Latin course, not a history one, and because Avitus has specified that the language of instruction be Latin, a working knowledge of that language would be required.  The successful completion of Grammatica Latina II, Sermo Latinus II, or a college-level course covering all of Wheelock or similar TRADITIONAL text would be required, though successful completion of at least 1.5 years of high school Latin taken before the standards dropped might suffice.  Texts such as the Cambridge Latin Series do not present enough grammar to proceed to this level, and it is highly questionable as to whether Ecce Romani does.  

    And while we are on the subject of C. Iulius, some might find a book called Party Politics in the Age of Caesar, by L. R. Taylor, U of California Press, 1968, useful for background studies.  

Valéte.



 

     
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55122;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55127 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Salve M. Hortensia Maior

I addressed my post to the Praetors not you but while you are here
I will address your points.

"the cases were brought by two religious officials against
Cincinnatus, because he barred Modianus augur from the yahoo group
which is the official one for the College of Augurs."

The Praetors said a case was brought by a "Consul" not by a Pontiff or
Augur.
There may be a list in which "official" business was conducted but the
Senate,
by law, is the only body that can designation any list "public Fora" of Nova
Roma.
It has never done so for any "College of Augurs" list.

In the ten years of Nova Roma the only two lists so designated are the main
forum or main list and the announce list. If the powers that be would read
the TOS at yahoo and the guidelines set up with them they would see that
Yahoo states that NO one can be forced on to a list. A yahoo list is by
nature and design a private list and you get to be on one by invitation .

It has been suggested by me and others that it takes five minutes to create
a yahoo list.
If Nova Roma was really being impacted by Modianus augur not being on this
list a new one would have solved that problem. It would seem that some
people want an issue and not a solution.

you said "

as a magistrate, a censor, if you cannot support and respect the
Gods, the State Cultus I suggest you step down."

I do and always have. Maybe you should read the calendar as it states in
part

"ordinary citizens may not commit acts of physical violence, or begin
lawsuits, and should try to avoid quarrels (but robust and lively debate was
acceptable); and

"magistrates may do anything except hold a meeting of the comitia tributa,
concilium plebis, or comitia centuriata, or exercise their judicial
functions;"

I was engaged in debate nothing more and nothing less. You will also note
that I did not sign my post with any title. If and when I am acting in an
official capacity I am sure to make that distinction.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus










;
>
> the cases were brought by two religious officials against
>Cincinnatus, because he barred Modianus augur from the yahoo group
>which is the official one for the College of Augurs.
>
>The augurs must act together as a college to give decisions when
>asked by the Senate.
>
>Now since you are a Censor I am shocked by your attitude to the
>State Cultus, which cannot function properly without a College of
>Augurs.
>
>
>As for my case, Gn. Equitius Marinus dropped it. He is free to bring
>it up any time. I am innocent and have no worries or qualms. But
>frankly I would rather honour Dea Concordia with him.
>
>
>Finally today is the Quirinalia; it is a dies Nefastus Publici,
>which means a holiday for all citizens and a feria dedicated to
>Quirinus, the god of the Roman People! It is not the time to post
>woe-type messages!
>
>as a magistrate, a censor, if you cannot support and respect the
>Gods, the State Cultus I suggest you step down.
>
>At the very least read the calendar!!!!
>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI#FEBRVARIVS
>
> May Quirinus be propitious to Nova Roma and all
> the Quirites!
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> > So let me see it I have this right they are to be two court cases
>against
> > Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Augur one brought by a Censor and now a
> > new one brought by a Consul but no case against Maior that was
>brought
> > before she became a magistrate.
> >
> > And they say the justice is blind.
> >
> > Woe unto Nova Roma and so much for Concordia.
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> > >From: "M�IVL�SEVERVS" <marcusiuliusseverus@...>
> > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: Nova Roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: [Nova-Roma] PETITIO ACTIONIS
> > >Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:50:59 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >Salvete omnes,
> > >
> > > We the Praetores of Nova Roma have received a petitio actionis
>from
> > >Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul, against Lucius
>Equitus
> > >Cincinnatus Augur, Pontifex et Augur, and we are ready to accept
>it, in the
> > >first valid date available.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > >
> > >M�IVL�SEVERVS
> > >PR�TOR�NOV��ROM�
> > >
> > >SENATOR
> > >PR�TOR�PROVINCI��MEXICO
> > >SCRIBA�CENSORIS�K�F�B�M
> > >INTERPRETER
> > >MVS�VS�COLLEGII�ERATOVS�SODALITATIS�MVSARVM
> > >SOCIVS�CHORI�MVSARVM
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
> > >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> >
>
>
f
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55128 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics 1/2 Finals LIVE REPORT
Aed. cur. Albucius omnibus s.d.

Here is below the "paper" that has sent our aedilitas our special
Catena Ludi Curulium (CLC) reporter in Circus Flaminius, M' Verus
Paenula, who has covered yesterday Sat. aft., and will today sunday,
the Athletics races.

I hope that you will appreciate M' Verus Paenula's lifelike narrative!

------------------------------
03:30 pm, live from Circus Flaminius, by M' Verus Paenula for CLC
(Catena Ludorum Curulium)
It is a beautiful, winter sunny afternoon in Circus Flaminius for the
beginning of the Lupercales Sprint Race.
People have come from every neighborhood of Rome and from many tribes
territories, to assist the first Athletics race. Everybody feels
excited at the same time because such an event is not frequent, and
also because it is the beginning of this exceptional program of sports
contests included into the Decennales games, the special games for Nova
Roma tenth birthday.
The Factiones have accepted to march into the Circus before and after
the athletes, to witness their involvement and interest for this new
kind of contest. What is wonderful is not only that the old Ludi, the
ancient athletic and fighting institutions, have been reactivated for
this 14th day before the Kalends of March, but also that every factio
has accepted to invoke the support of one God : Factio Iuppiter is thus
sponsored by Ludus Albatus, Factio Martis by Ludus Praesina, Factio
Quirini by Ludus Russatus, and Factio Iunonis by Ludus Venetus.
Precisely, Factio Iuppiter contestants, so members of Ludus Albatus,
have just returned from the Capitoline Hill, where a special ceremony
and ritus was given in honor of Iuppiter Optimus Maximus at the Temple
of the Capitoline Triad. White supporters are now entering in large
groups, the Circus, today used as a Stadium. You can easily recognize
them : look ! they are all in toga candida! This is one of the first
times they look so pure and virginales ! No doubt they will not stay
quiet when their champions, the soft-stepping brothers Vestigius
Quietus, Marcus and Lucius, will stand on the starting line! For the
moment, they seem impressed by the presence, in his senatorial seat, at
the center of Flaminius degrees, of Consularis Gn. Equitius Marinus,
now in his senatorial seat, who has received in the temple, from the
Flamen Dialis and on behalf of Factio Iuppiter, the vermillion and the
crowns of laurel which is now enlightening the foreheads of the Fratres
Vesqui, as they are called by their supporters.
Factio Martis contestants with all their supporters were the first ones
here. We must remind that Ludus Praesinus was not this morning in the
walls of their school, but met in the Praesina Stables, roughly 1,5
stadia from here, in this Campus Martius area. The aedilician services,
specially the police ones, have reported that, once again, the Praesini
have considered that the protection of Mars meant making much noise and
showing aggressive smiles to people in the street several hours before
the Race, specially deep in last night. Naturally, the aediles have
been weak enough not to listen to the protests of the three dozens of
Campus inhabitants who came to protest against this uproar, and who
declared solemnly that they will go towards the praetors to sue the
State. Really, Factio Mars is appreciated by many people, specially by
poets and artists, because one is amazed by the striking contrast
between these warlike supporters and the sweet Gaia Aurelia Falco
Silvana, the illustra patrona of this Factio, today highly
representated by athletes Gaius Aurelius Falco Celer and Manius
Aurelius Falco Rapax.
03:40
The marching ceremony is over! People are shouting. The factiones
lanistae have just informed their athletes in which semi-finals they
will run.
I see that young Iulius Sabinus Crassus, Quirinus's Factio, is keeping
on stretching and jumping up into the air, but this time in the right
Circus's turn, assigned to warming-up. Crassus, unlike many young men,
gives much importance to stretching. Sabinus was chosen to represent
Team Quirinus on the superstitio of his name -Quirinus being a very
important God of the Sabines - but overall for his possibilities, and
because he is reputed living in close relation with our environment :
he cares about the food he eats, he is globally aware, he is open to
Greek and Sarmatian philosophies, etc.. Bad tongues say in a smile
that "He is very quirinal" - do not forget that our Quirinus is among
our ancient gods the one that cares on food and harvests - and that he
could not run on the grass, being afraid injuring it.
But the Reds supporters do not mind these gossips, for they are sure of
their strenght, and of Crassus's one. Ludus Russatus physical
preparation coach even told me, in his meridional accent, that if he
wanted, his champion would just have to make one pace to win the race.
Info or intox ?
Factio Iuno, represented by members of the Ludus Venetus, seem
confident, too, warming up in special blue-dyed goat skins. The skins
are extra-short and have a gilded image of Iuno sewn onto the front
side of the skins. It is evident to most here that these are not the
skins from the sacrificial goats of the festival in the Lupercal
earlier this morning. Many are debating the Blues decision to use these
obviously pre-fabricated skins, but the team maintains that the
decision will be in Iuno's favor. What is not debatable is the number
of amphorae of goat's milk that the team has consumed this afternoon.
Naturally, the other Ludi are shouting them a few unpleasant words,
saying that they are not men if dressed like women, and have all their
wine hidden in their athlete's room. This athlete seems not caring all
these lazzi, and very concentrated. Despite his young age, Quaestor
Triarius' nephew, Quintus Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus, who will run in
hte first Semi, seems as determined as the other athlets, as for
example Rutilus, also in the first semi, and Celera, both sponsored by
Maxima Valeria Messallina. Celera, not to be taken for the already
mentioned Celer, seems physically ready. You can see him near Crassus,
and Celer, warming-up on the right side of the usual chariot track.
Sure Celera does not hear what other Factiones supporters are hurling
to him, concerning his name in "-a", and his alleged Bithynian practice
resort.
The place around the Circus is as crowded as the Circus itself even if,
according the aediles's staff, the situation is better now and under
control. The hardest supporters are still in jail, where all colors are
reconciliating around amphores exceptionally displayed there. Timeo
aediles et dona ferentes !
Vendors are selling small statuary of the specially honored Gods,
today, and allegedly "blessed," amphorae of goat's milk on every
corner. Gee, these guys will stoop to anything for extra denarii! Some
women are anxiously waiting for the race to begin ; other ones carry on
their particular trade, shouting : "Ad lupam! Ad lupam! Veni parve,
veni mi Reme, veni Romule!". Happily, scriba aed. Scholastica and
former praetor, very sharp on morality, is still in the Circus, and not
aware of this. She is the terror of these kind of female special
merchants.
03:50
It is time now for the 1st semi-final! The contestants who kept their
tunic for warming-up just put it off. Lucius V.Q. is getting close his
lane 1, soon followed by Rutilus at lane 2, Vopiscus and Rapax being
assigned the 3th and 4th. From the first rank, one may see that, behind
the athlete's apparent impassibility, every athlete is seized by the
doubt, at this precise moment. The Circus crowd is now close to silent.
Scriba Lentulus, whose designation as Camillus Concordiae has been
announced a few mintues ago, has been applauded. Now his work is of
another kind: trying to remind the contestants the rules of the race.
He is repeating : "Cives athletici, remember that you and we all are
all brothers! No hit, and stay in your lane! Respect of the rules, and
Concordia : con-cor-dia !".
But the athlets are already, mentally, in their race. The commemorative
strip of goat skin for the race, symbolizing those used by the two
Luperci in ancient times, has been received from Quaestor M. Hortensia
Maior, which is known as a skilled amateur of leather, and left aside
by the athletes, near the spina, beneath the first degree or in the
hands of their Magister Ludi.
The aediles curules are in the grand stand. They have welcomed the
whole senate, which is nearly as harassing than running and swimming
back to Rome to announce Pydna victory. The aediles could not however
have the pleasure welcoming Consularis Gn. Salvius Astur, who has just
announced his decision to resign his public charges. The aediles have
now sat down, the Consules by their side. Consul Piscinus seems calm
while Consul Sabinus is a bit nervous: young athlete Crassus is his
son, and it is his first official race in Flaminius!
Quaestor L. Vitellius Triarius, in his new toga, is standing by the
middle of the track, facing the stand, while aedilician scribes are
standing on both lines, looking at him attentively. In Vitellius's
hand, the famous mappa. The senators facing the quaestor can see that
the mappa has, in every one of its corners, the wolf symbol in every
faction color in competition.
Questor Triarius is raising the right arm. He has repeated this simple
move several times during the previous week, even the night, when the
whole domus was sleeping : "overall, the right hand!" has he repeated
himself. But, naturally, he does not mistake now. He is now turning
over and looking up two ranks higher, where aediles and consuls are
sitting. The crowd now knows that Vitellius is a hard working man, and
we can hear a few "Long life Vitelli!", along with bursts of applause.
A short glance, and Vitellius turns back toward the contestants. He is
raising the mappa higher than ever. He would be swallowed to the skies
by the gods that nobody would be that amazed. Everyone is focusing to
the mappa. The silence is now total. Even outside the Circus, no noise.
Total but now oppressive silence, a strange and anxious one. For it
reminds of the wonderful events, but also a few bad times, when the
open streets were deserted, the city waiting for bad news, or for the
enemy marching into the City.
As in a dream, the mappa has fallen. As four Numidian lions at last
released, Vesqui, Rutilus, Vopiscus and Rapax have sprung up from their
marks!

== 04:00 pm : Semi-Finals Race I ==
Rutilus blasts down the lane ahead of the others like a scorpion bolt.
Vopiscus is narrowly behind him, maintaining the pace, but slowing
slightly, as not to burn himself out immediately. Let us remind running
a stadium needs that you keep some forces for the second part of the
race!
Lucius Vestigius Quietus and Rapax are closely in pursuit. Now, Rutilus
slows and Vopiscus takes the leader's position... Yes, Rutilus moves
back into second place. Lucius Vestigius Quietus and Rapax are side-by-
side, both vowing for the third position. The contestants are at the
middle mark of the 203 meters of the stadium.
Now, Rutilus begins to slow from the overly fast start, and drops back
into third, with Rapax speeding ahead. Vopiscus is holding on, throwing
a glance over his shoulder when he may still do it with no major risk!
The runners are approaching the finish line. The crowd is standing and
cheering them on as Vopiscus... or Rapax... Vopiscus... Rapax... no,
Vopiscus, at last, crosses the finish line first, but Rapax is close
behind, followed by... Lucius Vestigius Quietus and Rutilus. This is
incredible... Vopiscus seemed to win easily, by finally the four
athletes seem to end in a close time. We have to wait for the time
provided by the Helvetian official electronic hourglass, sponsored by
Tempus corporation, whose ads you sure have already seen says : "A true
Lupus wears a watch Tempus".
The four contestants are jogging around the Circus for a cool down. The
three athletes are shaking hands with Vopiscus, the winner. The crowd
applauds wildly and throws flowers down, white, blue, green, red ones
onto the sand, for their favoured runners.
Race officials are checking the timers, and Scriba Lentulus brings the
final times to Quaestor Vitellius, who has now stepped up on the small
rostra built at the middle of the track. He asks for silence. As the
crowd finally settles to here the results and times, Quaestor Vitellius
announces the following:
Vopiscus - 1st Place (21''66)
Rapax - 2nd Place (21''83)
Lucius V.Q. - 3rd Place (21''91)
Rutilus - 4th Place (21''93)
It is a roaring in Flaminius, both to cheer the winner but also because
every athlete could have won this very close race!
As the servii rake the track and make preparations for the next race,
Quaestor Vitellius, under the applauses, thank each one of the
contestants individually.
Woo! We see that Lucius and Rutilus seem much deceived! No doubt that
they are re-running this 1st Semi in their mind!

== 04:15 : Semi-Finals Race II ==
The 1st Semi runners are now in the stands or their rooms, and the
contestants for the 2nd Semi are entering the field and lining up, as
directed by Scriba Lentulus in the following order: Celera in Lane I,
next is Crassus in Lane II, followed by Celer in Lane III and Marcus
Vestigius Quietus in Lane IV. Scriba Lentulus again reviews the line.
Now he signals that all is ready to begin.
Quaestor Vitellius stands and receives the nodded approval signal from
the Aediles. Once again, the magic time of the falling mappa has come.
Out of the starting position, Crassus leaps a good 2 metres ahead of
everyone else! The Russata fans in the stands go wild! Celera quickly
closes in behind Crassus within a few inches, holding the secondary
lead. Celer is advancing at a modern pace in third, followed by Marcus
Vestigius Quietus. But wait... now Marcus Vestigius takes the third
position over Celer. Crassus is pulling ahead of Celera, and he seems
to be in a different league from the other runners. His father, Consul
Sabinus, is standing on his seat with anticipation, gripping Aed.
Lucilius's arm who, happily, is a strong man.
Everyone is standing on their seats! The Reds are all but insane with
excitement! Some spectators from Albatus attempt to start a fight with
some of the Russata fans, but they cannot gain the attention of the
Reds, whose team member is taking the lead to even greater heights. Now
we have passed the fatal middle mark. What will happen ?
OOOOH! There seems to be a problem!! Crassus is slowing down! Celera
passes him easily, followed by Marcus Vestigius and Celer. Crassus has
now slowed his pace, and is grimacing. What is it ? A cramping ? The
Circus medicus and staff stand by, but maybe that young Crassus has not
simply measured his efforts. Ah, if ever young people had knowlegde,
and elder the force! Marcus Vestigius and Celera are approaching the
finish line, they are side-by-side in the lead followed by Celer,
closely behind. It's anybody's race now with only a few metres to go!
This Semi seems as close as the first one! Fantastic! Marcus Vestigius
gets his second wind! He pulls a good foot ahead of Celera, crossing
the finish line first. Celera second, Celer third, and Crassus half a
pace in 4th.
The crowds stand and applaude the four runners. Quaestor Vitellius is
now back upon his rostra with Scriba Lentulus, going over the official
finish and announces the following to the crowd:
Marcus Vestigius Quietus – 1st Place (21''53)
Celera – 2nd Place (21''73)
Celer – 3rd Place (21''83)
Crassus – 4th Place (21''98)
Quaestor Vitellius greets each contestant and thanks them for their
participation, then makes a reminder announcement to the crowd about
the Finals and Minor Finals races to be held here in the Circus
Flaminius tomorrow.

04:40 - So, wonderful Lupercales Athletics first day, indeed, here in
Circus Flaminius! Romans in the crowd, that I have just interviewed,
seem enthusiastic about these kinds of race. Most of our citizens did
not know it. Just a few of us, the richer ones, who have had the
opportunity travelling to the Olympic Games or to the Isthmic ones, in
Greece, knew that there were not on Roman earth just Venationes and
Circus chariots or horses contests.
So this is a first success, and no doubt it is thanks to our Gods! We
hope that all the athletes will be able to defend their Factio's color
this Su. 17th, and I think specially to young Crassus. The crowd is now
dispersing from the Circus to attend the evening's celebrations and
prepare for the main event tomorrow. I can see smiles on the faces, and
even Lanistae, who show ordinary frowning faces, seem satisfied.
It was M' Verus Paenula on Feb. 16th, speaking from Circus Flaminius,
for C.L.C., Catena Ludorum Curulium, the aedilitas network!

-------------------------------

Valete omnes,



Albucius aed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55129 From: Q·FABIA·DRVSILLA Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
SVBEEV

TGP dixit> I addressed my post to the Praetors............

But today is not Nefastus Publicus?

In this case neither Praetores nor any magistrate should intervene in public
life.

Curate

Q.Fabia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55130 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: a. d. XIII Kal. Mart.: Quirinalia
M. Moravius Piscinus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit:
Diis bene iuvantibus sitis

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Martias; haec dies nefastus
piaculum est: Quirino in colle

"Romulus, O Romulus, may You eternally live in Heaven among the
children of the Gods" ~ Ennius Annales I.121

The deification of Romulus:

"Tatius died, and you, Romulus, gave orders equally to both peoples.
Mars, removing his helmet, addressed the father of gods and men in
these words: 'The time has come, lord, to grant the reward (that you
promised to me and your deserving grandson), since the Roman state is
strong, on firm foundations, and does not depend on a single
champion: free his spirit, and raising him from earth set him in the
heavens. You once said to me, in person, at a council of the gods
(since I am mindful of the gracious words I noted in my retentive
mind), 'There will be one whom you will raise to azure heaven.' Let
your words be ratified in full!'

"Omnipotent Jupiter nodded, and, veiling the sky with dark clouds, he
terrified men on earth with thunder and lightning. Mars knew this as
a sign that ratified the promised ascension, and leaning on his
spear, he vaulted, fearlessly, into his chariot, the horses straining
at the blood-wet pole, and cracked the loud whip. Dropping headlong
through the air, he landed on the summit of the wooded Palatine.
There he caught up Romulus, son of Ilia, as he was dealing royal
justice to his people. The king's mortal body dissolved in the clear
atmosphere, like the lead bullet, that often melts in mid-air, hurled
by the broad thong of a catapult. Now he has beauty of form, and he
is Quirinus, clothed in ceremonial robes, such a form as is worthier
of the sacred high seats of the Gods." ~ Ovidius, Metamorphoses
14.805-828, A. S. Kline prose translation

Confusion concerning an identity of Quirinus comes from trying to
sort out the various layers that were built on top of Him by the
Romans. The problem comes along with the question of the origin of
Rome itself. We have in Pliny a list of very early participants in
the Feriai Latinae who were the populi Albenes. Among the list of
thirty tribes are some that are recognizable from different Latin
towns - Bola, Corioli, Fidenae, Pedum. (Pliny, N.H. III.69). Notably
missing from the list are the major Latin cities of the historical
period, among them Rome. Interesting are two names that suggests the
inclusion of Latin communities on the Velia (the ridge running
northeast from the Palatine to the Esquiline), and from the Caelian
(Tacitus, Annuls IV.65.1). In the historical period we have the
annual festival of the Septimontium on 11 Dec. in which the
inhabitants of Germalus and Palatium (two summits of the Palatine),
the Velia, the Caelian, and three spurs of the Esquiline (Oppius,
Cispius, and Fagutal) participated (Festus pp.474-6 L; p.458). The
Septimontium suggests which montes were occupied by Latin villages
prior to unification, even prior to unification of the villages on
the Palatine. Notable is the exclusion of the inhabitants of the
Quirinal and Viminal. In contrast is the Agonalia, 9 Jan., which we
know little or nothing about except that it seems to have been
connected to the Quirinal (Collis Agonus being a traditional name of
the Quirinal, as in its gate, the Portus Agonensis) (Ovid, Fasti, I.
325. Varro, L.L. 6.12). There are other divisions in Roman
institutions which oppose the Palatine against the Quirinal, the
montes opposed to the colles. The Salii were divided into two groups,
the Salii Palatini associated with the Palatine and serving Mars, and
the Salii Agonenses (or Salii Collini) associated with the Quirinal
and serving Quirinus. There is also the division of the Luperci
between two gens, the Luperci Quinctialis and Luperci Fabiani, the
Fabii being closely associated with the Quirinal (Livy 5.46.2). In
such ways the contrast in Roman institutions between Quirinus and
Mars points to there having originally been two communities, Romulus'
Latins on the Palatine and the Sabines under Titus Tatius on the
Quirinal. Indeed this is what the legends of Rome record.

Earlier in the month of February (11 Feb.) we looked at the moveable
feast of Fornicalia. The Fornicalia was a festival of the curiones;
that is, a sacrum publicum pro curiis. Offerings were placed on a
table set before Juno Curitis, or Iuno Quiritis, "She who is armed
with shield and spear." One who had failed to make his offerings at
Fornicalia had then to go to the Forum on Quirinalia, wading through
the crowds to find the booth for his own particular curia. The crowd
swirling about him, everyone seemingly unaware of where they were
going, for they, too, were all searching for their own curia's
booth. In the Forum, down below the Hills, then on this day was what
was called "the Festival of Fools," feriae stultorum.

The main festival of Quirinalia was conducted atop the Quirinal Hill
at the Temple of Quirinus; Quirino in colle. There were two Temples
of Quirinus on the Quirinal. The second one was dedicated on 29 June
293 BCE. The earlier one, whose dedication is celebrated at
Quirinalia, dates to some unknown time period. There had been a
sacellum Quirini in colle, which is mentioned in the Gallic sack of
Rome in 390 BCE. The Temple, dedicated in 293 BCE, may have replaced
this sacellum. However, with regard to the rites held on the
Quirinalia, we know nothing.

We can only speculate. Two days earlier, at Lupercalia, on 15th
February, the Luperci were seen running a circuit in the performance
of an ancient foot race. The Palatine Hill had its Luperci Quinctii;
the Quirinal matched the Palatine with its own Luperci Fabii. Did
the Quirinalia see the Luperci Fabii perform a purification rite?

Since festivals were almost always placed on odd numbered days to
ensure good fortune, some two day festivals were separated by an even
numbered day for that very reason, it is possible that the Quirinalia
once involved a running of Luperci Fabii as the Lupercalia saw the
Luperci Quinctii. Varro does say that the Lupercalia was earlier
called Februatio, "Festival of Purification," and only later came to
be called Lupercalia after the running of the Luperci priests.
However, there is nothing in the records to indicate such
purification rite took place at Quirinalia It may be that the role of
Luperici for the Quirinalia was overlooked or taken for granted by
our sources, or that the practice had fallen out of use by the Late
Republic. If there was not some comparable running of the Luperici,
then it is difficult to account for the Quirinal having had its own
collegium of Luperci. And if these Luperci Fabii performed a ritual
purification, then it is a reasonable assumption that they would have
do so during the month of purification.

The Quirinal also had its own company of Salii, just as did the
Palatine with its Salii Palatii. The Salii Agonenses bear a very
early name for a part of the Quirinal Hill; i. e. Colle Agonus.
There stood the porta Aginensis. Augustinus of Hippo claimed that
there was a God named Agonius (Civ. Dei 4.11.26), which may be a
later invention used to explain these names and also the "Agon" found
on the old Roman calendar. Or Agonius may have been an early deity
of the Sabine city on the Quirinalia in the time of Titus Tatius. Or
it could be a God called Agonius with whom Quirinus came to be
identified while He was introduced from the Palatine Hill, or that
Quirinus, after arriving on the Quirinal, was later given the name
Agonensis because His temple was placed on the Agonius Hill before it
became identified with Him. None of the ideas connecting Quirinus
with an Agonius or with the Colle Agonus have any basis, and they
amount to the same thing. What they have in common is an idea that
Quirinus was introduced to Rome relatively early and this may not be
true.

The reference to an earlier Quirinus comes from a much later source
that mentions a sacullum Quirini in colle. We cannot know how
creditable a source it may be. There has never been found on the
Quirinal the remains of a temple, sacullum, or fanum that can be
identified with Quirinus as those mentioned in our sources. What we
can know with some certainty is that Quirinus came to be identified
with Romulus very late in the fourth century. At this time,
following the sack of Rome and with Gallic incursions elsewhere into
Italy, Latin and Italic tribes began to adopt Homeric heroes as
ancestral progenitors. The Sabines took their origin from a
Spartan. The Romans came to play with the Greek myths that had
Creusa as the Mother of the Spartans while the first wife of Aeneas
at Troy was a woman named Creusa. Thus the Sabines, descended from a
Spartan in Italy, and the Latins, descended from the son of Aeneas
whose mother was Creusa, were at once held as opponents in the Trojan
War just as they had been in the early history of Rome and joined
together in Heroic mythology as they were in legend. The Marsi
adopted a son of Ulysses, by Circe, as their mythological ancestor.
Other tribes did likewise, and we are told that at Rome certain
families also adopted Homeric heroes into their ancestors, most
notably the Iulii whose lime was traced to the mythical Alba Longa.
In the fourth century it was the other Latin cities that identified
King Latinus of Aeneid legend with Jupiter Latiaris of the feriae
Latinae on Mount Albano, Iulus of Alba Longa with Ascanius, son of
Aeneas and Creusa, and at Lavinium saw Aeneas identified with Jupiter
Indiges.

It is only after Rome finally defeats the Latin League in 338 BCE the
Rome begins to adopt some of these legends as their own. Just as
Rome took the residents of Lanuvium in as Citizens of Rome and its
city deity, Juno Sospita, into the Roman pantheon, the Romans adopted
Aeneas into its legendary ancestry. At Lavinium it is Rome that
rebuilds the Latin sanctuary of thirteen altars after 338 BCE. Only
328 feet away, hardly 100 meters, an ancient grave was built up by
the Romans into the heroon of Aeneas. The burial itself dates to the
mid-seventh century, from the pottery left during the burial ritual.
Inside the tomb were found the man's spear and sword. Also found was
the lituus of an augur, suggesting the importance of the man. Any
valuable the tomb may have once had were stolen by intruders a
century later. By the time that the Romans came upon it the tomb was
seriously deteriorated. About 304 BCE the tumulus was built up over
the tomb. Facing the path to the Sanctuary of Thirteen Altars, a
portico had been placed in space cut into the tumulus. The portico
was itself enclosed behind a short wall in the manner of enclosing a
fanum. Behind the portico is found a false door in stone that seal a
chamber. The chamber itself is roughly four times the size of the
original tomb, and one corner of the chamber disturbs the tomb. It
was in this chamber that offering were left during the dedication
ceremony, among which are the examples of pottery that date the
dedication to just before 300 BCE. In the time of Cato the Elder
there were legends of how Aeneas had vanished and no tombs were to be
found (Ap. Servius, Ad Aeneis 4.620). Around 150 years after Cato,
the heroon of Aeneas at Lavinium is described:

"It is an earth affair, not large, and around it trees are set out in
rows: well worth seeing." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus 1.64.5

It has to be after this time when Rome accepted Aeneas as a legendary
ancestor of the Latins that Romulus, coming from the city founded by
Ascanius, and directly descended from this son of Aeneas, was then
tied into such Homeric origins. The Temple of Quirinus that was
dedicated later, in 293 BCE, certainly brought this idea of a deified
Romulus to the Quirinal as Quirinus. There is nothing to suggest
differently than that the Luperci Fabii, the Salii quirinales, the
temples, sacullum, and locus of Quirinus on the Quirinal all arrived
in the same era, between the mid-Fourth and mid-Third centuries.
There seems to have been some memory of an earlier community on the
Quirinal. It was identified as Sabine, although the early graves on
the Quirinal from the 7th century are indistinguishable for
gravesites in the Forum and on the Palatine. There is nothing
distinguishing a Sabine grave from a Latin grave. The "Latinization"
of the Quirinal, with the introduction of Quirinus, of Juno Lucina,
of the complex of nearby temples related to women and health, does
indeed represent an expanse of the "Latin" city centered on the
Palatine, but this then might be explained by the reconstruction
foloowing the Gallic sack, and the resettling of Latins as Citizens
of Rome during the Latin Wars that followed. Notions that these
shrines upon the Quirinal and the rites they represent date to the
foundations of the religio Romana may be true, if we understand that
such an origin concerns the religio Romana as it was restored
following the Gallic sack, from which arose the religio Romana that
we know from our first century sources, whose own writings were based
on works no earlier than the fourth century. It is when we start to
see the "Numa Tradition," said to have been restored following the
Gallic sack, as instead originating in this period of reconstruction,
that myths and legends on Quirinus begin to (very roughly) correlate
with archaeology evidence. Then maybe we can offer better
speculation on what the Quirinalia and its festivities may have
involved.


The thought for the day comes from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 10.2-
3:

"Observe what thy nature requires, so far as thou art governed by
nature only: then do it and accept it, if thy nature, so far as thou
art a living being, shall not be made worse by it.

"And next thou must observe what thy nature requires so far as thou
art a living being. And all this thou mayest allow thyself, if thy
nature, so far as thou art a rational animal, shall not be made worse
by it. But the rational animal is consequently also a political
(social) animal. Use these rules, then, and trouble thyself about
nothing else."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55131 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: QUIRINALIA : a short friendly reminder
Aedilis cur. Albucius omnibus s.d.

Having read the message posted in our ML today (so since our 55120),
I am, as aedile, happy to remind you this very joyful and special
day. Today is Quirinalia.

It is a *nefastus publicus dies* so, quoting our web pages :

"ordinary citizens may not (..) begin lawsuits, and should try to
avoid quarrels (but robust and lively debate was acceptable); (..)
magistrates may do anything except (..) exercise their judicial
functions;"

Frankly, I would suggest you all, amici, to wait 8h15 more, till
tomorrow, which will be comitialis and every quarrel will
be "authorized".

A small effort for you, a big one for Roma and our customs.

Have to leave you now, and join Circus Flaminius : Finals for
Athletics races !

Here, the weather is pure blue, and it is sunny. :-)


Valete bene omnes,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55132 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
M. Moravius Piscinus, Consul, Quiritibus SPD:

I think that it is rather premature for anyone to begin debating
claims I have filed before they are made public.

As Censor Galerius did notice, I filed my claims as Consul. I have
not yet filed claims against Lucius Equitius as an Augur and
Pontifex. My claims are given in a seven page document over which
the Praetores reviewed only so much as to accept the petitio. The
petitio was sent by a magistrate, myself as Consul, on 16 Feb.,
being a dies endotercisus, at a proper hour, the Praetores
acknowledge the claim's receipt and acceptance on a dies nefastus as
is correct. The publication of the claims and the scheduling of
their hearing shall be handed down by the Praetores on 18 February,
which is dies comitialis.

In sending my claims to the Praetores I also sent a copy to L.
Equitius. He has not replied to the Consul in the past three weeks,
he has not replied, as far as I known, to Pontifex Aurelianus'
attempt to mediate a resolution. Lucius Equitius has placed himself
outside the Law, defying decisions of the Senate and the edicta
consularis intended to implement a senatus consultus.

You, Censor Galeri, may have voted against the senatus consultus, but
I shall point out that more than two-thirds of the Senate voted in
favor!

At issue here is whether Nova Roma accepts that the rule of law
governs Nova Roma. The "situation" left to this year's Consules by
yourself, did not begin in your consulship. You proposed to resolve
the situation through extralegal means - calling for a SCU and
negotiating with the pontifex maximus to perform duties that he is
bound by office to perform but has not performed for at least the
past two years. The situation with the Collegium Augurum is at least
four years in the making. I am not going to resort to extralegal
procedures if I can avoid them. I am not going to ask the Senate for
authority under an SCU unless and until I find no other possible
solution. I am going to insist that pontifices abide by decreta they
impose on themselves and others. I am going to insist that augurs
abide with decreta passed by themselves and the pontifices, and that
everyone abide by the Law, by resorting to the Law to enforce the
Law.

This has become a matter for the Praetores to decide, because Lucius
Equitius has decided to place himself outside of the law, against the
Senate, and in defiance of the Consules. I suggest that you await
publication of the claims before you get further ahead of yourself.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve M. Hortensia Maior
>
> I addressed my post to the Praetors not you but while you are here
> I will address your points.
>
> "the cases were brought by two religious officials against
> Cincinnatus, because he barred Modianus augur from the yahoo group
> which is the official one for the College of Augurs."
>
> The Praetors said a case was brought by a "Consul" not by a Pontiff
or
> Augur.
> There may be a list in which "official" business was conducted but
the
> Senate,
> by law, is the only body that can designation any list "public
Fora" of Nova
> Roma.
> It has never done so for any "College of Augurs" list.
>
> In the ten years of Nova Roma the only two lists so designated are
the main
> forum or main list and the announce list. If the powers that be
would read
> the TOS at yahoo and the guidelines set up with them they would see
that
> Yahoo states that NO one can be forced on to a list. A yahoo list
is by
> nature and design a private list and you get to be on one by
invitation .
>
> It has been suggested by me and others that it takes five minutes
to create
> a yahoo list.
> If Nova Roma was really being impacted by Modianus augur not being
on this
> list a new one would have solved that problem. It would seem that
some
> people want an issue and not a solution.
>
> you said "
>
> as a magistrate, a censor, if you cannot support and respect the
> Gods, the State Cultus I suggest you step down."
>
> I do and always have. Maybe you should read the calendar as it
states in
> part
>
> "ordinary citizens may not commit acts of physical violence, or
begin
> lawsuits, and should try to avoid quarrels (but robust and lively
debate was
> acceptable); and
>
> "magistrates may do anything except hold a meeting of the comitia
tributa,
> concilium plebis, or comitia centuriata, or exercise their judicial
> functions;"
>
> I was engaged in debate nothing more and nothing less. You will
also note
> that I did not sign my post with any title. If and when I am acting
in an
> official capacity I am sure to make that distinction.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ;
> >
> > the cases were brought by two religious officials against
> >Cincinnatus, because he barred Modianus augur from the yahoo group
> >which is the official one for the College of Augurs.
> >
> >The augurs must act together as a college to give decisions when
> >asked by the Senate.
> >
> >Now since you are a Censor I am shocked by your attitude to the
> >State Cultus, which cannot function properly without a College of
> >Augurs.
> >
> >
> >As for my case, Gn. Equitius Marinus dropped it. He is free to
bring
> >it up any time. I am innocent and have no worries or qualms. But
> >frankly I would rather honour Dea Concordia with him.
> >
> >
> >Finally today is the Quirinalia; it is a dies Nefastus Publici,
> >which means a holiday for all citizens and a feria dedicated to
> >Quirinus, the god of the Roman People! It is not the time to post
> >woe-type messages!
> >
> >as a magistrate, a censor, if you cannot support and respect the
> >Gods, the State Cultus I suggest you step down.
> >
> >At the very least read the calendar!!!!
> >http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXI#FEBRVARIVS
> >
> > May Quirinus be propitious to Nova Roma and all
> > the Quirites!
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> >
> > > So let me see it I have this right they are to be two court
cases
> >against
> > > Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus Augur one brought by a Censor and
now a
> > > new one brought by a Consul but no case against Maior that was
> >brought
> > > before she became a magistrate.
> > >
> > > And they say the justice is blind.
> > >
> > > Woe unto Nova Roma and so much for Concordia.
> > >
> > > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "M•IVL•SEVERVS" <marcusiuliusseverus@>
> > > >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: Nova Roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: [Nova-Roma] PETITIO ACTIONIS
> > > >Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:50:59 -0800 (PST)
> > > >
> > > >Salvete omnes,
> > > >
> > > > We the Praetores of Nova Roma have received a petitio
actionis
> >from
> > > >Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul, against Lucius
> >Equitus
> > > >Cincinnatus Augur, Pontifex et Augur, and we are ready to
accept
> >it, in the
> > > >first valid date available.
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >M•IVL•SEVERVS
> > > >PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ
> > > >
> > > >SENATOR
> > > >PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
> > > >SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
> > > >INTERPRETER
> > > >MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> > > >SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
> > > >
> > > >---------------------------------
> > > >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> > >
> >
> >
> f
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55133 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Salve Marca Hortensia,

Maior <rory12001@...> writes:

[...]
> As for my case, Gn. Equitius Marinus dropped it.

Not quite. I've been silent about the proceedings here in the main
list thus far, but since you see fit to discuss them I'll explain for
the benefit of those following along.

In pre-trial discovery Cordus presented a post by then-praetrix
Scholastica in which she said things that demonstrated prejudice on
her part. In fairness and consideration for the law I asked the
current year praetors to vacate her subsequent actions. This had the
effect of requiring me to re-file the petitio actionis. Since
Hortensia is currently serving as a magistrate I have to wait until
she is out of office to do so.

So no, I didn't "drop it." I acted with regard for the law and fairness.

> But frankly I would rather honour Dea Concordia with him.

You've done well so far this year. Please continue.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55134 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS-TO PAVLINVS CENSOR
Salve Censor,
 
May I remind you that the case against M.Hortensia Maior was NOT brought before us, the Praetores for MMDCCLXI?
The rest of your commentaries are evidently biased and unfair.So much for your idea of Concorduia!
 
Vale,


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55135 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: LUDI Lup. : PHOTO and ESSAY contests DEADLINE reminder
P. Memmius Albucius aed. omnibus s.d.

Care, everyone who would be interested in the 2 literary contests
closing this Su. 17th (Quirinalia)!!!

- 'ESSAY, 9 pages maximum, 4,000 characters max/page, whose theme
is: "Romulus and Jesus apotheosis: resemblances and differences."
- PHOTO with one of two themes: (1) wolf, wool and milk, or (2)
running and motherhood

Both contests have their deadline for entries at ***MIDNIGHT today***
February 17th.

Submit entries to: lucius_vitellius_triarius@...
Results will be announced on February 29th (Fornicalia), during the
Ludi Conditorum.

The Crossword Puzzle Contest answers will be available around 11 pm
Rome time, before the closing ceremony.


Valete omnes,


Albucius
aed. cur.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55136 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS


> Salve M. Hortensia Maior
>
> I addressed my post to the Praetors not you but while you are here
> I will address your points.
>

Actually you addressed it to everyone by posting in a public forum. If you
wanted to address the Praetors only you should've emailed them privately.



Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55137 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Athletics: FINALS LIVE REPORT
==3:30 PM==

Direct from the Circus Flaminius - by M' Verus Paenula

We return today to the site of yesterday's athletic demonstrations,
the Circus Flaminius, on this, another cool, yet somewhat windy, but
beautiful winter afternoon. A bit more windy today than yesterday,
and the street vendors have recognized this as a prime opportunity to
offer warm muslum to the arriving spectators. All around the Circus,
the vendors have their braziers fired up and serving some of the best
varieties of warm foods and beverages that can be found south of the
Rubicon. As we approach the gates to the Circus, we see several
citizens betting on the day's races with the ultimate confidence in
their favoured contestants.

For the final race day celebrations, we can see the many different
musical troupes filing into the Circus to prepare for the
entertainment venues to be presented before the races, during the
intermission, and after the races. One troupe from Ostia, the Trojan
Tubicens of the 1st Consular Legio, are dressed in elaborate tunicae
with highly-polished horns and are reputed to be some of the best
military musicians on the Italian Penninsula. Another group from here
in Roma, the Numa Tradition, will be offering a special presentation
during the Intermission, consisting of ancient music, played on a
variety of instruments, including lyres, tubicens, cornicens, flutes,
a lituus and a water-organum. A trademark of the Numa Tradition is
their own tradition of providing not only music, but costumed
entertainment in their productions. This group is famous for their
Ursus tibicen (flute playing bear) and Pullus cornicen (horn-blowing
chicken) routines.

The Locarii (ticket scalpers) have bought up most of the good seats
and are selling them at ridiculously inflated prices, but this does
not seem to stop the spectators from paying top-denarii for the
prized seats. Nor, from arguing over the sales, as there have been
several people questioned by the authorities about some incidents
already today of violent behavior in regards to ticket purchases and
refusals to resell them to other devoted spectators.
The crowds are beginning to increase in numbers and are starting to
file into the Circus to get the best seats early. Several Senators
are making their way through the crowd, stopping to politic and
answer citizen's questions along the way.

Citizen Venator and his lovely wife have just arrived and
are "inspecting" the offerings of the street vendors, many who are
members of the Sodalitas Coquorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum. Several of
the vendors are seeking membership in the Sodalitas and ask about
information. Many citizens congratulate him on his recovery from a
recent bout with the dreaded Carthaginian Influenza and are happy he
was able to make it out to the Circus today. Several citizens run up
to him and ask him to personally sign their copies of one of his
newly-released poetic works scrolls.

Quaestor Maior is also making her rounds through the vendor area,
inspecting each cart and ensuring the vendors are complying with the
edicta concerning the Ordo Equester and Macellum rules and
regulations. One vendor has already been removed for fraudulently
selling religious artifacts with the engraving, "Made in Roma." The
items were confiscated by the authorities as fakes, actually being
made in a sweatshop in AgrigentumÂ…the vendor not paying his import
duties and slipping the artifacts in through the Port Tibernius in
sacks of grain.

We are going to leave you momentarily, so we can ourselves move
inside to set up for better coverage of the races to be held here
shortly.



==3:30 PM==

Most of the Circus seats have now filled, and the crowd eagerly
awaits the opening procession. The Russata fans are in the stands
cheering, "Crassus divitiae locariorum," or "Crassus means riches for
the ticket scalpers!" The Greens and Blue are having their usual
spirited fights over which Factio is better positioned to win the
day's events. Albata fans are again present in toga candida,
proclaiming an early victory already for Factio Iuppiter. Tensions
are high in the Circus, but they always are and it is to be expected.

The procession is now entering the Circus. Leading the procession are
the various musicians, who are playing a lively and triumphant
medley. Next come the training staffs of the different factiones,
followed by the Aedilitas curules staff of Quaestor Marca Hortensia
Maior, Scribae Scribae C. Marcius Crispus, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Q.
Valerius Poplicola, and A. Tullia Scholastica. Behind them comes
Editor of the Races, Quaestor L. Vitellius Triarius, and the Curule
aediles, P. Memmius Albucius and Sex. Lucilius Tutor, and finally the
Consules M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus,
preceded by their lictors en masse.

The Consules and Aediles have found their seats above the Senators in
the first row in the Editor's Box. Everyone is questioning Consul
Sabinus about the nature of his son, Crassus, and his ability to run
the race today. Consul Sabinus has assured everyone that Crassus is
top shape, and that yesterday's unfortunate cramp had been identified
with the cool weather. He further advises that the team Medicus has
been working with the training staff all morning to assure that the
proper warm-up and stretching exercises have been performed by
Crassus to the strictest standards to prevent such a mishap from
occurring again this afternoon.

Quaestor Vitellius and Scriba Lentulus are now coming onto the field
to meet with the contestants and advise of the race rules. Quaestor
Hortensia and Scriba Valerius are preparing the finish line with the
other staff members, while Scribae Tullia and Marcius are ensuring
that the Circus staff promptly distributes the flyers to the crowd,
listing the biographies of each runner in today's races.



==4:00 PM Minor Finals Race==

It is now time for the first race of the day and the Ludi, the Minor
Finals. This race consists of all the contestants, who placed either
3rd or 4th in the Semi-Finals Races yesterday. The signal is given by
Scriba Lentulus for the runners to form their line. Rutilus,
sponsored by Maxima Valeria Messallina and representing Factio Iuno
of Ludus Venetus takes his place in Lane I, beside Lucius Vestigius
Quietus of Factio Iuppiter of Ludus Albatus in Lane II, sponsored by
Consularis Gn. Equitius Marinus. Next, in Lane III, Crassus, son of
Consul Iulius Sabinus, sponsored by himself and representing the
Factio Quirinus of Ludus Russatus. Finally, in Lane IV, Gaius
Aurelius Falco Celer of Factio Martis of Ludus Praesinus, sponsored
by Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana.

The runners receive their last minute instructions from Scriba
Lentulus and then form their line. Each one looks down the 203 metre
stretch and anticipates a big win. Quaestor Vitellius motions for
the crowd to lower its roar, which they do. Now, the Circus is
silent, as Quaestor Vitellius raises his right arm, then drops the
mappa!

The runners fly off the starting line with immense speed! Rutilus
takes the lead, but only momentarily, as Celer strains ahead of him.
Crassus and Lucius Vestigius Quietus are right behind them. All four
of the runners, barefoot as required per race rules, are throwing
sand all over the place. It almost looks like a horse or chariot race
from the dust that is being thrown up into the air.

Should anyone fall behind, they will surely suffer from this
unbelievable amount of dust that is being generated. Celer continues
the lead, with Rutilus in close second, followed by Lucius Vestigius
Quietus, then Crassus. Celer doesn't seem to even be sweating as he
maintains the lead of a good metre in front of his closest opponent.
Lucius Vestigius Quietus has now caught up to Rutilus and is battling
for second position in the race. Crassus is following in fourth
position, but cannot seem to get into the heat of the battle.
Sources say there may be a question of too much Falernian at last
night's celebrations, but that is just pure speculation. The runners
have passed the 100 metre mark and are over halfway to victory at his
point. Lucius Vestigius Quietus has now taken a good 2 metre lead
over Rutilus, but is still behind, albeit not much, but behind the
continual leader in this race, Celer. Now, 50 metres to go and
Rutilus and Crassus are battling for third place. 20 metres to go
and Celer is just dominating this race. Rutilus has just fallen back
into fourth place, behind Crassus. As the runners cross the finish
line, there is no doubt in anyone's mind as to who placed where, but,
we will have to wait for the official results.

Quaestor Hortensia and Scriba Valerius have certified the results and
are now giving the wax tablet to Quaestor Vitellius, who announces
the following:

Celer – 1st Place (21"80)
Lucius Vestigius Quietus – 2nd Place (21"83)
Crassus – 3rd Place (21"85)
Rutilus – 4th Place (22"18)



== 4:30 PM Finals Race==

It is now time for the second and last race of the day and the Ludi,
the Finals. The Circus workers are raking the track for this next
race, while the race officials make some last minute decisions.
Quaestor Vitellius and Scriba Lentulus have issued some instructions
to Scriba Valerius, who is no running off the field and speaking to
the Circus staff. In a few moments, the staff come onto the field
with a horse-drawn cart with about a dozen amphorae in the back of
the cart. The servii drive the cart down the lanes, sprinkling what
appears to be olive oil onto the sand to cut down the dust problem.
After they have finished making several passes up and down the lanes,
the cart is pulled off and the race preparations continue as planned.

This race consists of all the contestants, who placed either 1st or
2nd in the Semi-Finals Races yesterday. The signal is given by Scriba
Lentulus for the runners to form their line. Celera, sponsored by
Maxima Valeria Messallina takes his place in Lane I, beside Quintus
Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus in Lane II, sponsored by himself, with
both representing Factio Iuno of Ludus Venetus. Next, in Lane III,
Manius Aurelius Falco Rapax, sponsored by Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana
and representing the Factio Martis of Ludus Praesinus. Finally, in
Lane IV, Marcus Vestigius Quietus, representing Factio Iuppiter of
Ludus Albatus, sponsored by Consularis Gn. Equitius Marinus.

Scriba Lentulus promptly advises the runners of the rules of the race
and answers any last minute questions. Quaestor Vitellius makes his
way back to the stands in preparation for the start of the race. Once
in position, he then reaches inside his toga praetexta and pulls out
the Lupercalia mappa, specially made for the Lupercalian events by
members of the Caelian Guild of Tailors.

The line now formed, Quaestor Vitellius motions for the crowd to
settle and a brief, but impatient, silence occurs in the Circus.
Slowly raising his right arm, he holds the mappa in place before
him. The runners anxiously await the start. The wind suddenly
gusts, blowing the mappa sideways, and Rutilus of Factio Iuno jumps
the line, misinterpreting the signal and causing a false start. When
this happens, the supporters of the Greens burst into laughter at the
Blues and several fights break out in the stands. The authorities
move quickly to move the combatants out of the Circus and into the
street.

With order now restored in the stands, Quaestor Vitellius again
ceremoniously raises the mappa, the silence is deafeningÂ…then the
mappa drops quickly and the runners break out!
Celera and Marcus Vestigius Quietus have extraordinary starts and go
the first 30 metres along side of each other. These are two well-
matched athletes. Next, narrowly behind them is Vopiscus, followed by
Rapax, who appears to be pacing himself early and showing absolutely
no signs of strain by the calm and determined look on his face.
Marcus Vestigius Quietus drops his position to Rapax momentarily, but
loses it again to Marcus Vestigius Quietus. Now, Vopiscus moves into
the third position, overtaking Rapax. Now, Vopiscus moves into
second place, easing by Marcus Vestigius Quietus. What an unexpected
change this is after the seemingly slow start that Vopiscus had a few
moments ago. Celera and Vopiscus are side-by-side, both giving it
all they have. Oh! Celera has fallen back into second place behind
Vopiscus. With only about 70 metres to go, Celera takes back the lead
momentarily, then falls back to third, as Rapax advances with his
second wind. Now it is Rapax versus Celera for first place and
immediately following is Marcus Vestigius Quietus versus Vopiscus for
second place. Now, about 40 metres out from victory, all four are
moving back and forth among the positions. The winner could be anyone
at this point, it is too close to call yet. Are they running in
together for a four-way tie? NO, Vopiscus starts to fall backÂ…he's
lost his momentum. Now it's a three-man race! The runners are
beginning to separate with only about 20 metres to go. The staff on
the finish line are all prepared for a close finish. Each official
has his eyes fixed on the finish line, and now they cross, one, two,
threeÂ…

From the stands, I cannot tell who the winner is, much less the
second or third places. The officials are running over to meet
Quaestor Vitellius to discuss it. The runners slow to a cool-down
pace and the crowds are going crazy. There is a tremendous amount of
denarii resting on this race, it is now over, and no one knows yet
what the outcome is. The crowds are so loud the officials can't here
each other and Scriba Lentulus motions for the crowds to quieten
down. The roar lowers and the officials make their decision.

Quaestor Vitellius addresses the crowd and announces that there has
been a new record set in the foot race annals of the Circus
Flaminius! He then announces the following results:

Celera – 1st Place (21"40) and VICTOR of the Ludi Lupercale(nese)s
Sprint Races
Rapax – 2nd Place (21"73)
Marcus Vestigius Quietus – 3rd Place (21"76)
Vopiscus – 4th Place (21"85)

The crowds cheer as the musicians play a triumphant march and the
Victor, Celera, is lifted up into the air and carried by Ludus
Venetus members to the Editor's Box for the awards presentation
ceremony.

The Aediles come forth to present the Ludi Victor with his rewards.
Aedile Lucilius give a laurel crown to Maxima Valeria Messallina,
sponsor and Domina factionis of Factio Veneta and current Lanista of
the Ludus Venetus, who places the crown on Celera's head. Quaestor
Vitellius presents him with a silver bowl, imported from Graeciae and
emblazoned with Greek athletes in various poses. Aedile Memmius then
opens a leather bag and pours the bowl completely full of golden
denarii, a gift from the coffers of the four racing Factiones for a
job well done.

The crowd cheers again and a closing ritus is performed by Scriba
Lentulus in honor of Iuppiter, Mars, Quirinus and Iuno. Quaestor
Vitellius thanks the contestants, the Aediles, the Consules and the
Gods for an absolutely great two days of racing and then releases the
crowds to enjoy this, the last day of the Ludi Lupercale(ense)s. Let
the festivities begin as the sun sets on the Tiber with its Roman
shades of red and gold.



=================================================
L•VITELLIVS•TRIARIVS
QVÆSTOR•ÆDILITAS•CVRVLIS•PMA
NOVƕROMÆ

CAMILLVS•PONTIFEX•ET•FLAMEN•FGA
PRÆFECTVS•REGIO•TANASIVM•PROV•AM•AVSTRORIENTALIS
DIENEKES•ARKHON•SODALITAS•GRÆCIÆ
=================================================

for the Curule Aediles:

P. Memmius Albucius
Sex. Lucilius Tutor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55138 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Lupercalenses Crossword Contest: FINAL RESULTS
Salvete omnes,

The winner of the Ludi Lupercale(nse)s Crossword contest is:

Gaius Marcius Crispus

We thank him greatly for his participation as a Civis of Nova Roma!

Normally, a member of the Cohors would not be allowed to compete,
however, Crispus was not online when the rules on the participation
of the members of the coh. aed. were determined. As he has been the
only civis to compete, I have consulted with the Aediles and they
have authorized his entry in the contest.

You can view the answers on the Lupercale(nse)s page at:

http://tinyurl.com/ypoen4

or directly at:

http://tinyurl.com/2lrkg5


Valete optime,

=================================================
L•VITELLIVS•TRIARIVS
QVÆSTOR•ÆDILITAS•CVRVLIS•PMA
NOVƕROMÆ

CAMILLVS•PONTIFEX•ET•FLAMEN•FGA
PRÆFECTVS•REGIO•TANASIVM•PROV•AM•AVSTRORIENTALIS
DIENEKES•ARKHON•SODALITAS•GRÆCIÆ
=================================================

for the Curule Aediles:

P. Memmius Albucius
Sex. Lucilius Tutor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55139 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Ludi Lupercalenses : closing CEREMONY
Albucius aed. omnibus s.d.

[The following closing ceremony has begun in the forum, at 11:45 pm
Rome time, on this Feb. 17th.
Aed. cur. Memmius was on the Rostra in curule clothes, Aed. cur.
Lucilius by his side. Memmius said:]

"Quirites !

Here are ending our Lupercalia days ! And what an end ! This has been
Quirinalia, today : how could we have a better end ?!

All along these too short three Lupercales days, the Gods have
protected us and given us, in the most parts of Lupercalia, a
beautiful weather for our Ludi. Faunus, Jupiter and Juno have opened
our festival, Dea Roma has strenghtened its life, and Quirinus has
brought it smoothly to its end, a joyful end.

Lupercalenses ludi are ending, and soon, our ancient year, whose last
day will be Fornicalia, the day before the Kalends of March. To
celebrate this old year, you have begun having fun, specially since
the darkness has fallen on our city. If even not everything is
allowed today and this night, more will be forgiven, and we aediles
be less severe than another day. It is a day when the slaves do not
work, the women may be taken for men and men for women, the serious
people for histrions, etc..

Our Lupercalenses, or Lupercales - as might prefer the most purists
of us - will end in a good mood, and the satisfaction that aedilician
team has having made its job. Sure we might have more competitors for
the literary contests, more participation on this forum, but, what !
This is just the beginning of what we called the Ludi Decennales,
these extra-games for this 10th birthday 2761 auc year.

Celebrating this special Lupercalia time have helped us thinking,
more than usual, to our Twins, to the foundation of Rome, to our
myths and history, and that the ones are not to be opposed to the
others. Rome is all of them at the same time.

In two weeks, we will meet again for a more important event : Ludi
Conditorum, the Games of our Founders. Religious priests and top
official magistrates have already confirmed us their involvement. I
hope that you, Quirites, will be many to celebrate this special time,
beginning with the Equirria and whose central day will be the Kalends
Martis, the day Nova Roma have been created, Rome renewed, by Patres
Patriae Cassius and Vedius.

Many pleasant moments will remain in our memories. This night will be
one of them, or when praying our 'daily god' at dawn. The Athletics
race in Circus Flaminius will be another good memories, when
specially Qu. Vitellius let the mappa fall in the silence of the
track, releasing the first race athletes."

[Aed. cur. Memmius observed twelve seconds of silence, one for every
month of the year, and turned over to the Capitole, looking up in the
arx's direction.]

Gods of Rome, and you, specially Faunus, Jupiter, Juno, Dea Roma and
Quirinus, I, Memmius, collega Lucilius, Quaestors Vitellius and
Hortensia and our whole aedilitas humbly thank you all for your
protection and support during these three days. Thanks for the
support that your Luperci and sacerdotes brought us!
Mater Lupa, you may go back your Lupercal and get some rest. Forgive
us Romani, if we are Stulti, this night, as Quirinus has allowed us.
Thanks to Concordia to have watched on these first extraordinary
games in this extraordinary year.
Soon, in less than two nundinae, we will disturb you once again, Dii,
with Mars! Forgive us all, and keep us your protection.
But overall, stay in our homes, each of our activities, in our
assemblies, in our whole daily life, from tomorrow fresh morning on !
The Ludi Lupercalenses are over, but Rome is going on."

[End of the closing ceremony, at 0:15 pm Rome time, on this Feb.
18th.]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55140 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus S.P.D.
 
I began suggesting membership cards for citizens as far back 2756.  I suggested to Tb. Galerius Paulinus that the cards be designed for both plebs and patricians.  The patrician card to have an outline of the Capitoline Temple on it; the Aedes Ceres for the plebeian card.  I also brought this matter up again during the election period last year.
 
Personally, I have always felt that cards should be made available for members as a concrete example of the existence of Nova Roma and that the leadership of Nova Roma would want to offer something to the citizens to show how much they cared. 
 
However, it has never been done.  Perhaps the Senate should simply 'farm out' the task to a specific citizen since it would be a very Roman thing to do . . . sort of like tax gathering.
 
Valete. 




Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55141 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: lots of Roman gods statues!
Salve,
 
The post with the head is called a herm and is a more common marker in the Greek communities south of Latinum; sometimes it also had a representative of a phallus on the stone.  A simple stone or cairn would be more appropriate to mark the boundary of your property and that of your neighbor.  The rites for the Terminalia were usually celebrated near the terminus stone on a turf altar.  It was usually very important among country folk rather than among urban folk.  However, it was still celebrated at or near the crossroads of the vici in Rome until the Principate.
 
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus




Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55142 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tb. Galerio Paulino sal.
 
Cousin, sometimes you should really just have a long tall chalice of "shut the heck up."  If you want to pursue a petitione actionis against Marca Hortensia Maior for the remarks made against some citizens a couple of months ago, that is your business.  But please do not post such an open ended statment on the list otherwise.  It is just asking for that whole can of worms to be reopened..
 
Many of us have problems with Marca Hortensia, me included, but I am not going to take any kind of legal action against her unless she starts demanding the Plebs ignore the Tribunes (again) or the cultores deorum ignore the Collegium Pontificum.  Now if she wanted to burn down the Senate House, I would be torn between an action against her and offering to dance around the blaze with her singing "Aleleuia."
 
Nova Roma is going through one of its periodic growth spurts where everything is chaotic.  We have seen the resignation of two pontifices and we can likely expect to lose a few other magistrates and such in the next couple of months.  It is very confusing.  Personally, I have found a soothing massage, a visit to the thermae in Red Boiling Springs, a few cigars, and a large amount of alcohol keeps me content if not entirely sane.
 
You should really come visit me in Austrorientalis and I will let you try my prescription for contentment.
 
Vale.
 




Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55143 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-17
Subject: Re: PETITIO ACTIONIS
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

> Personally, I have found a soothing massage, a
> visit to the thermae in Red Boiling Springs, a few cigars, and a
large amount
> of alcohol keeps me content if not entirely sane.
>
> You should really come visit me in Austrorientalis and I will let you
try my
> prescription for contentment.


Ooooh, how I luv tha South! I would suggest the H. Uppman Vintage
Cameroon Lonsdale or Churchill (the former being MY favorite, but the
latter being easier to find), along with some Gentleman Jack w/ crushed
mint...and any old hot tub will do! Now, that my friend, is Concordia
on Quirinalia...even with a law suit!

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55144 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salvete

Here is a site of an ID company that we can use online to make cards for all
of our taxpaying citizens. This would be in addition to a citizenship
certificate/diploma that I am currently designing. When I have the first
draft finalized I will post it. I am thinking of a diploma size certificate
one side in Latin the other in ones native language.

The good thing about an online company like this is that
we design the card and they print them. We don�t have to buy any equipment
of any kind.

http://www.vridcards.com/PhotoID.htm


Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55145 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR
Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae

Ex officio Praetoris
 
aues scaeva apparirunt, praepetes uolabant, auspicia propitia sunt:
 
The Iudicio of Actor K. Fabius Buteo Mofdianus versus Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur begin today Feb. 18th and will be conducted under the public scrutiny.
 
I have called the following citizens to be iudices in the trial:
 
1.. Gaius Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus,
2.. Gaius Equitius Cato,
3.. Aulus Apollonius Cordus,
4.. Franciscus Apulus Caesar,
5.. Caius Flavius Diocletianus,
6.. Titus Arminius Genialis,
7.. Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus,
8.. Iulia Caesar Cytheris Aege,
9.. Equestria Iunia Laeca
10.. Titus Vergilius Catulus,
 
and the following for alternate iudices:
 
> Marcus Iulius Perusianus
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> Emilia Curia Finnica,
> Marcus Lucretius Agricola
> Lucius Salix Cicero,

Caius Flavius Diocletianus,  Iulia Caesar Cytheris Aege, Titus Vergilius Catulus, Emilia Curia Finnica and  Lucius Salix Cicero have not reply, therefore the tribunal will be composed by:
 
1.. Gaius Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus,
2.. Gaius Equitius Cato,
3.. Aulus Apollonius Cordus,
4.. Franciscus Apulus Caesar,
5. Marcus Iulius Perusianus
6.. Titus Arminius Genialis,
7.. Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus,
8.. Pompeia Minucia Strabo
9.. Equestria Iunia Laeca
10.. Marcus Lucretius Agricola.
 
IUDICES: Please re-read the Formula and the Petitio Actionis there are the instructions that you shall apply .
 
Accordig the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria Pars Quarta: De Iudicio
 
XI. Any of the parties can choose to appoint an advocatus (advocate or barrister) to speak for them in front of the iudices, or they can choose to speak by themselves.

XII. The actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the reus shall present evidence to back his defense. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.

Now we need to know if the Actor  and the Reus have choose speak by themselves or they have appointed an advocatus before post meridiem Roma Time of Feb. 19 (a.d. XI Kal. Mar.) .

Si ambo praesentes  the Actor or his advocatus can present evidence to back his demand on Feb. 19 (a.d. XI Kal. Mar.) after  post meridiem Roma Time.

When the Actor have finished to explain his demand, the Reus or his advocatus can present his evidence of Feb. 20 (a.d. X Kal. Mar.) before post meridiem Roma Time.

These are my last instructions, extracted from the Tabula I, Lex Duodecim Tabularum:

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO

COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.

 

Datum sub manu mea a.d. XII Kal. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand February 18th 2008 in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius


===========

Valete.
--
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55146 From: titus.aquila Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: YSEE - Invitation to Pagan forum
Salvete Quirites,

I have received following information from YSEE, I would like to
share with you.

Optime valete
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
Scriba Censoris KFBM


Dear members, supporters, friends and people that have showed in the
past interest in our organisation,

we would like to inform you that taking into account the rising need
to be able to communicate with YSEE and amongst yourselves we have
created an English speaking section in our forum where you are all
invited to participate.

We hope that in creating this special area for our non Greek
speaking friends will be able to get more information and also
contribute to our common goal to restore the Hellenic tradition and
way of thinking in our contemporary world.

In order to maintain the forum standards to the high level that we
know you would all like, registration is needed before any account
is activated in the forum. To register access the forum from
http://forum.ysee.gr and press the English flag located at the top
left corner so that you see the menus in English (due to spam
problems, in case where your account is not activated after 3-4 days
please send a message to ysee@... notifying us about your
account activation).

Looking forward in seeing you there.

- Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55147 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Ludi Lupercalensis / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
C. Aurelia Falco Silvana P. Memmi Albuci, L. Vitelli Triari, omnibus
civibus aedilorum officionis, civibus rei publicae Novae Romae omnibus
SPD.

I humbly apologize for not responding sooner, especially since Fortuna
has so favored Domus Aurelia Falco in these Ludi, first of the Year of
Concordia in Nova Roma. I regret that there was not time to enter the
cultural contests in these Ludi. We have made new trade contacts
thanks to Aghila's connections in Mauretania Provincia, and I had to
deal with these personally. Thanks to our able Lanista and to two
very responsible young men in the family, we could still participate
in the Lupercales.

First, and most important: Thank you to our Aediles and all the
assistants and scribae who made these games possible. A great deal of
work goes into producing each Ludi. It is very easy to forget about
this when the games "run" (pun intended) as smoothly as the
"Lupercales". The same careful preparations must be made, even if
only half the factions and a few owners enter the Ludi. Gratias agemus!

Secondly, Domus Aurelia Falco is pleased to add a wee sestercius to
the rising fortunes of Factio Praesina. We praise the Gods of these
Ludi, and Dea Fortuna who smiled upon our Domus for the first time in
a long while.

And lastly (but not finally), some notes about our particpants:
AGHILA, our venationes victor, was at first very nervous after his
victory. He apologized to the Lanista for having thanked his own
Deities before thanking the Gods of Roma – and this, while standing in
a Roman ring. The Lanista only smiled, and explained that Roma only
asks that all people respect the beliefs of all others. By willingly
fighting in these games to honor Rome's earliest traditions, Aghila
had shown his respect for the Roman way. His apology only proved that
his own beliefs were worthy of respect. May Concordia continue to
smile upon us all.

We have enquired about the health of the two dogs which Aghila asked
to spare. It seems they are well, and Aghila wishes to thank their
owner for providing such a valiant fight.

YUFTEN the North African mountain goat, may be gone but he will not be
forgotten. In the time that he was in our stables, he was bred
frequently (actually, he needed more restraint than persuasion). We
look forward to his kids.

The two young men of the Domus, RAPAX and CELER also strove to honor
tradition, Mars and Ludus Praesina. Manius Rapax offered thanks for
his first place finish in the Minor Finals of the foot race
by freeing a wild eagle which he had successfully nursed back to
health after it was found with a broken wing. Gaius Celer finshed
second in the Finals of the foot race, and has vowed to care for the
kid goats sired by Yuften. (Celer may be much busier than he thinks!)

For all new Citizens, and for longer-term citizens who haven't tried
the Ludi before, L. Vitellius Triarius offered some very clear ideas
for creating a Ludi entry. On this list, his message was #49518, at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/49518

The information was forwarded to the New Roman list, message #2127, at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/message/2127

For background on various aspects of the Games in Roman times, see the
Aediles portal under "Roman Games" at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aediles

In closing, Domus Aurelia Falco looks forward to all of the coming
Games which will celebrate the Year of Concordia and the 10th
Anniversary of Nova Roma. Fellow citizens, let us reward the
Aedelician staff by being worthy of their efforts. We look forward to
meeting more owners and their representatives in the Circus and the
arena. I look forward to reading many more entries in the cultural
contests. Every effort is a mark of respect to traditions, and
traditions are an anchor in an unsteady world.

Valete bene in pace Deorum.

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55148 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: a. d. XII Kal. Mart.: Parentalia; Hersilia
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Iubeo bono animo esse.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:
Parentalia

"With hail and snow Favonius or Auster blow." ~ Columella, De Re
Rustica 2.21

"I cannot restrain myself from publishing all of the silly theories
of our Stoic friends. They assert that there are some experts in
observing clouds and in predicting when hail will come. They are
able to know this just from experience, since they have noted in the
clouds a color for which is in every case followed by hail.

"It is incredible – illud incredibile – that at Cleonae there
were 'hail officers' appointed at public expense who watched for hail
to come. When they gave a signal that hail was approaching, what do
you think happened! Quid expectas? Did people run for woolly
overcoats or leather rain-wear? No. Everybody offered sacrifices
according to his means, a lamb or a chicken. When those clouds had
tasted some blood they immediately moved off in another direction.

"Do you laugh at this? Hoc rides? Here is something to make you laugh
even more. If someone did not have a lamb or a chicken, he laid hands
on himself, which could be done without great expense. But do not
think the clouds greedy for blood or cruel. He merely pricked his
finger with a well sharpened stylus and made a favorable offering
with his blood, and the hail turned away from his little field no
less than it did from the property of a man who had appeased it with
sacrifice of larger victims." ~ L. Annaeus Seneca minor, Naturales
Quaestiones 4B.6


PARENTALIA

Roman family processions traveled out of the City on this day to the
tombs of their relatives. With them they brought gifts of wine,
water, milk, honey, oil, salt and black sacrificial victims. They
decorated the tombs with flowers; preferably violets and roses.


The deification of Hersilia

"His wife, Hersilia, was mourning him as lost, when royal Juno
ordered Iris to descend to her, by her rainbow path, and carry these
commands, to the widowed queen: 'O lady, glory of the Latin and
Sabine peoples, worthy before all to have been the wife of so great a
hero, and now of Quirinus, dry your tears, and if it is your desire
to see your husband, follow me and seek the grove, that flourishes on
the Quirinal hill and shades the temple of Rome's king.'

"Iris obeyed, and gliding to earth along her many-coloured arch
addressed Hersilia as she had been ordered. She, hardly raising her
eyes, replied, modestly: 'O goddess (since it is not easy for me to
say who you are, but it is clear you are a goddess), lead on: O, lead
on, and show me my husband's face. If only the fates allow me to see
him once, I shall declare I have been received in heaven.'

"Without delay, she climbed to Romulus's hill, with Iris, the
virgin daughter of Thaumas. There a star fell, gliding from sky to
earth, and Hersilia, hair set alight by its fire, vanishes with the
star in the air. The founder of the Roman city receives her in his
familiar embrace, and alters her former body and her name, and calls
her Hora, who, a Goddess now, is one with her Quirinus." ~ Ovidius,
Metamorphoses 14.829-851, A. S. Kline prose translation


Plutarch, Roman Questions 46:

"Why did the men of old keep the Temple of Horta continually open? Is
it, as Antistius Labeo has stated, that since 'to urge on' is
expressed by hortari, Horta is the Goddess who urges us on, as it
were, and incites us to noble actions; and thus they thought that
since She was ever active, She should never be procrastinating nor
shut off by Herself nor unemployed? Or rather do they call Her, as
at present, Hora, with the first syllable lengthened, an attentive
and very considerate Goddess, who, since She was protective and
thoughtful, they felt was never indifferent nor neglectful of human
affairs? Or is this too, like many other Latin words, a Greek word,
and does it signify the supervising and guardian Goddess? Hence Her
Temple was continually open since She neither slumbers nor sleeps.
If, however, Labeo is right in pointing out that Hora is derived from
paraorman (to urge on), consider whether we must not declare that
orator is thus to be derived since an orator is a counsellar or
popular leader who simulates, as it were, and incites; and it is not
to be derived from 'imprecating' or 'praying' (orare) as some assert."


Our thought for today is from the Sententiae of Publilius Syrus.
These became a popular collection of quips from plays:

"Straining breaks the bow, and relaxation relieves the mind."

Arcum intensio frangit, animum remissio.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55149 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: Lupercalenses / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
Aed. P. Memmius Albucius C. Aureliae Falconi Silvanae s.d.

Thank you for your kind words! They are very important for all the
people who have worked in the shadow to prepare these Lupercalenses,
and will fuel up the whole aedilitas energy for coming Ludi
Conditorum (Games of our Founders), beginning on 27th Feb.

>I regret that there was not time to enter the cultural contests in
these Ludi.

Yes, we have missed you!

>On AGHILA,YUFTEN, RAPAX and CELER reactions and coaches's ones,

We intend opening a web page (or charts in the existing ones), linked
to factiones's existing ones,
dedicated to the competitors in the Ludi, with a few informations on
them, their life, background, interviews, etc.
Please give us your mind on this, and pls be ready allowing us to
insert your 4 champions's reactions in this page/chart.

Last, prepare for Equirria !!! ;-)


Tibi multas gratias Silvana and omnis pugnator,



Albucius aed.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Aurelia Falco Silvana"
<silvanatextrix@...> wrote:
>
> C. Aurelia Falco Silvana P. Memmi Albuci, L. Vitelli Triari, omnibus
> civibus aedilorum officionis, civibus rei publicae Novae Romae
omnibus
> SPD.
>
> I humbly apologize for not responding sooner, especially since
Fortuna
> has so favored Domus Aurelia Falco in these Ludi, first of the Year
of
> Concordia in Nova Roma. I regret that there was not time to enter
the
> cultural contests in these Ludi. We have made new trade contacts
> thanks to Aghila's connections in Mauretania Provincia, and I had to
> deal with these personally. Thanks to our able Lanista and to two
> very responsible young men in the family, we could still participate
> in the Lupercales.
>
> First, and most important: Thank you to our Aediles and all the
> assistants and scribae who made these games possible. A great deal
of
> work goes into producing each Ludi. It is very easy to forget about
> this when the games "run" (pun intended) as smoothly as the
> "Lupercales". The same careful preparations must be made, even if
> only half the factions and a few owners enter the Ludi. Gratias
agemus!
>
> Secondly, Domus Aurelia Falco is pleased to add a wee sestercius to
> the rising fortunes of Factio Praesina. We praise the Gods of these
> Ludi, and Dea Fortuna who smiled upon our Domus for the first time
in
> a long while.
>
> And lastly (but not finally), some notes about our particpants:
> AGHILA, our venationes victor, was at first very nervous after his
> victory. He apologized to the Lanista for having thanked his own
> Deities before thanking the Gods of Roma – and this, while standing
in
> a Roman ring. The Lanista only smiled, and explained that Roma only
> asks that all people respect the beliefs of all others. By
willingly
> fighting in these games to honor Rome's earliest traditions, Aghila
> had shown his respect for the Roman way. His apology only proved
that
> his own beliefs were worthy of respect. May Concordia continue to
> smile upon us all.
>
> We have enquired about the health of the two dogs which Aghila asked
> to spare. It seems they are well, and Aghila wishes to thank their
> owner for providing such a valiant fight.
>
> YUFTEN the North African mountain goat, may be gone but he will not
be
> forgotten. In the time that he was in our stables, he was bred
> frequently (actually, he needed more restraint than persuasion). We
> look forward to his kids.
>
> The two young men of the Domus, RAPAX and CELER also strove to honor
> tradition, Mars and Ludus Praesina. Manius Rapax offered thanks for
> his first place finish in the Minor Finals of the foot race
> by freeing a wild eagle which he had successfully nursed back to
> health after it was found with a broken wing. Gaius Celer finshed
> second in the Finals of the foot race, and has vowed to care for the
> kid goats sired by Yuften. (Celer may be much busier than he
thinks!)
>
> For all new Citizens, and for longer-term citizens who haven't tried
> the Ludi before, L. Vitellius Triarius offered some very clear ideas
> for creating a Ludi entry. On this list, his message was #49518, at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/49518
>
> The information was forwarded to the New Roman list, message #2127,
at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/message/2127
>
> For background on various aspects of the Games in Roman times, see
the
> Aediles portal under "Roman Games" at
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aediles
>
> In closing, Domus Aurelia Falco looks forward to all of the coming
> Games which will celebrate the Year of Concordia and the 10th
> Anniversary of Nova Roma. Fellow citizens, let us reward the
> Aedelician staff by being worthy of their efforts. We look forward
to
> meeting more owners and their representatives in the Circus and the
> arena. I look forward to reading many more entries in the cultural
> contests. Every effort is a mark of respect to traditions, and
> traditions are an anchor in an unsteady world.
>
> Valete bene in pace Deorum.
>
> C. Aurelia Falco Silvana
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55150 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Salvete omnes,

After searching the globe for the right venue, and acting upon the
wise advice of Senator Saturninus, I have located and established the
latest of my NR projects that I would like to share with everyone.

If you click on this link:

http://romanspace.ning.com

You will find the newest social network on the Internet. The
RomanSpace Network is a MySpace/Facebook/Blogger type environment
that I have created for Nova Roma and any other Roman enthusiast. It
operates basically the same way and many of the features will
integrate with Facebook pages.

Finally, our organization can have its own dedicated social network
platform.

You may access RomanSpace through the link above or through the main
page and left sidebar directory of monsaventinus.wikia.com, if you
visit there.

For those of you who have or are interested in having a domus space
on one of the Mons Aventinus streets, but are not prone to wiki-
editing, you can simply register for a RomanSpace page, then email me
the link and the MA street you live on, and I will link it for you.

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55151 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: North American Conventus
Salvete Quirites,

We're going to have a conventus somewhere in North America this year.
If you're interested in organizing it, or just in being there, please
join me at the NovaRomaCon mailing list. You can join by going to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaCon and following the directions
about how to join. Or, just send a blank e-mail message to
NovaRomaCon-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

Valete,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55152 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Awesome thank you!
 
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR

Salvete omnes,

After searching the globe for the right venue, and acting upon the
wise advice of Senator Saturninus, I have located and established the
latest of my NR projects that I would like to share with everyone.

If you click on this link:

http://romanspace. ning.com

You will find the newest social network on the Internet. The
RomanSpace Network is a MySpace/Facebook/ Blogger type environment
that I have created for Nova Roma and any other Roman enthusiast. It
operates basically the same way and many of the features will
integrate with Facebook pages.

Finally, our organization can have its own dedicated social network
platform.

You may access RomanSpace through the link above or through the main
page and left sidebar directory of monsaventinus. wikia.com, if you
visit there.

For those of you who have or are interested in having a domus space
on one of the Mons Aventinus streets, but are not prone to wiki-
editing, you can simply register for a RomanSpace page, then email me
the link and the MA street you live on, and I will link it for you.

Vale optime,
Triarius

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55153 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: EDITIO ET PETITIO ACTIONIS: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS L.EQUI
Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD
 
Ex officio praetoris
 
We,  the Praetores,  have received the following message from M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus in which he made a Petitio Actionis against L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur.
 
We,  the Praetores,  have studied the Petitio Actionis and have decided to accept this.
 
Curate ut valete
 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: EDITIO ET PETITIO ACTIONIS

M. Moravius, Consul, M. Curiatio et M. Iulio, Praetoribus salutem plurimam dicit:
 
It is now seventeen days since I issued my edict directing L. Equitius Cincinnatus to approve the requestions of any and all Senators to the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum lists.  Not only has he not complied with those edicta consulares, and the senatus consultus, as he has not subscribed Senators and Senatrices as required by the law, he has also not honored my requests to be subscribed those these lists, even though I am myself a Pontifex and an Augur. 
 
 I have delayed filing claims against L. Equitius Cincinnatus while attempts were being made to mediate the situation.  I have not heard back directly from the Senator.  I have not heard back for those who had written to me earlier to say they were attempting to negotiation some compromise.  I wrote to Senator Aurelianuson 12 Feb. asking him specificaly if he had had any reply from Senator Cincinnatus, and I have not heard back from either.
 
Lucius Equitius is a Senator and former magistrate.  He knows that it is his duty to comply with the edicta consulares.  He made comment in Senate chambers even before the edicta were issued that posed he would not obey them.  It is not as though he is ignorant of the edicta, or ignorant of the senatus consultus that was passed while he was present.   He is a pontifex and augur as well.  He was party to the pontifical decretum on augural law, he added an addendum to the decretum, creating a collegium of pullarii, and appointed one pullarius as an attachment to these decreta.  He cannot, therefore, be ignorant of the pontifical law that he now violates, too.  
 
Through his actions, and then by his inaction by which he continues to be in deliberate and intentional noncompliance of the law, L. Equitius Cincinnatus has placed himself in a stance to challenge the very foundation of the rule of law in Nova Roma.  He has thereby placed himself against the State from which he claims titles and honors, and for which he refuses to perform the duties he owes to the State by virtue of the offices he holds in Nova Roma as Senator, Pontifex, and Augur.
 
Thus I have attached to this email an EDITIO ACTIONIS followed by a PETITIO ACTIONIS in order that:
 
I, Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus, Consul, Senator, Pontifex, Augur and Flamen Carmentalis make claim against:
 
 Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Senator Censorius, Flamen Martialis, Pontifex, and Augur
 
136 counts of ABUSUS POTENTATES 
1190 counts of INIURIA
2 counts of CONTUMELIA PIETATE
2 counts of IMPIETAS PRUDENS DOLO MALO
4 counts of LAESA PATRIAE
 
 
Valete optime
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55154 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: EDITIO ET PETITIO ACTIONIS: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS L.EQUI
Full text of Petitio Actionis od M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus against L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur:
 

 

M. Moravius, Consul, M. Curiatio et M. Iulio, Praetoribus salutem plurimam dicit:

 

It is with great regret that I, as Consul, must write to you Praetores today.  It is always a grave concern when law is violated.  More serious is a matter when an official who is entrusted, by law, with duties of administering the law, then violates the law.

 

Publilius Syrus once wrote, "Iniuriam ipse facias, ubi non vindices."  As Consul, sworn to defend the Constitution and the law of Nova Roma, it falls primarily on myself and my colleague to enforce the law and the policies of the Senate through issuing edicta consulares.   When the edicta consulares are therefore openly defied, then threatened is the entire system of Nova Roma law.  The Consul, through direct communication with Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus and through mediation by others, has tried to resolve this situation.  Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus has chosen instead not to reply to any mediators, not to reply to the ConsulÂ’s communications, not to comply with edicta consulares, and not abide with a senatus consultus.  Through word and deed Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus has placed himself outside the law and must now be brought once more under the rule of law.  It is the duty of a Consul to ensure that such will be carried out.  As this person refuses to comply with edicta consulares to redress the situation, the Consul is now compelled to submit this written request as an:  

 

EDITIO ACTIONIS

 

The Consul M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus, Pontifex, Augur, and Flamen Carmentalis, on behalf of the Senate and the People of Nova hereby informs the Praetors M Curiatus Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus of his intent to bring action against one Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Senator, Flamen Martialis, Pontifex, and Augur on the following claims:

 

The Constitution Section I, Paragraph A, states, “ This Constitution shall be the basic authority for all decision-making within Nova Roma and shall limit the authority of all magistrates and bodies, and all leges (laws) passed by the comitia, decreta (decrees) of the priestly collegia, magisterial edicta (edicts) and Senatus consulta shall be subject to it.”

 

The Constitution, Preamble to Section V, states that, “The supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma shall be embodied in its Senate.”

 

Section V.A: “As the repository of experience and wisdom in the affairs of State, the Senate shall have the authority to issue Senatus consulta (advice of the Senate) on those topics upon which it shall see fit to comment.”

 

On 15 January 2761 AUC, the Consul called the Senate to assemble and advise him on various matters concerning our Res Publica Libera.  On 28 January 2761 AUC, Lucia Livia Plauta, Tribuna Plebis, reported the results of the Senate voting record for the January session:

 

Re: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1289

 

Included in her report was noted passage of Senate Consultus 7 of AUC 2761:

 

SIC: ITEM VII

The Senate lends its support to the Consul to issue an edictum instructing list owners to approve without exception the requests of all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to any and all lists that are recognized as necessary in the administration of Nova Roma. These lists shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com".

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a specific list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, list owners shall nonetheless be instructed to subscribe members of the Senate upon request, although the list owners may under such circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in the edictum shall be any private lists of a semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold discussions with their advisors and appointees.

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 4

 

 

Under the Constitution, Section IV.A.2.b: The Consules have a POWER, “To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma.”

 

On 29 January 2761 AUC, in response to the senatusconsultus reported on the previous day, under the advice of the Senate, the Consul issued the following edicta:

 

_________________________

 

EDICTUM CONSULARIS IV:

On Subscribing Members of the Senate to Lists

 

Re: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1291

 

 

When later that same day, the Pontifex Maximus, Marcus Cassius Julianus, stated to the Collegium Pontificum that he felt he did not have to comply with the edictum consularis with regard to an individual member of the Senate, and the Reus had already indicted on the Senate list during voting that he would not comply with an edictum consularis, making a claim of private ownership of two of the lists noted in the SC and the edictum, the Consul therefore issued a follow-up edictum so as to leave no doubt that the decision of the Senate, setting Nova Roma policy that since the Senate has a responsibility of oversight of the religious Collegia, members of the Senate, without exception,  must be equally given the right to subscribe to any and all lists used  for the administration of any aspect of Nova Roma, including oversight of the religious collegia.  

 

EDICTUM CONSULARIS V:

ad Collegia Pontificum et Augurum

 

Re: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1292

 

EX OFFIO CONSULARIS

M. Moravius Piscinus, Consul et Pontifex, M. Cassio Juliano, Pontifici Maximo, Pontificibus et Auguribus SPD:

In accordance with the senatus consultus approved by the Senate, and reported by Tribuna L. Livia Plauta on 29 January 2761, Senate Agenda Item VII of the January Senate Session, 2761, and in accordance with
Edictum Consularis IV that has been issued by the Consules this day, you are hereby instructed to subscribe all Senatores and Senatrices who, since 1 December 2760, have requested that they be subscribed to the lists named below, but who, through the neglect of their duties by list owners, had their requestes allowed to elapse.

For the following lists:

the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com",
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com",
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com",
the "RPriesthood@yahoogroups.com",

list owners will now and forthwith "approve without exception" the requests of any and all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to the lists given above.

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under my hand this 29th day of January 2008 CE in the Consulship of M. Moravius Piscinus and T. Iulius Sabinus

______________________

 

The lists in question, while owned privately by Yahoo, who gave usufruct rights to the Reus, were in fact intended for the administration of the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum.  The Reus contends that the lists are his private property, which is false.  His “ownership” of the lists was due solely by virtue of his offices as Pontifex and Augur respective to the lists.  Although not magisterial offices, these priestly offices are mentioned in the Constitution and thus the Reus was carrying out a magisterial role, but the right of usufruct belonged with the Res Publica that used these lists to administer Nova RomaÂ’s religious collegia.  Therefore the Consul, as Actor, contends that the archives of these lists in fact are the property of Nova Roma, and not the private property of the Reus, as the Reus contends, and as those archives, and their distribution, is a matter of administration, the Consul contends that the Senate and the Consul were justified in posing the lists named in the senatusconsultus and the edicta consularis as administrative lists of Nova Roma.  Further, although not a magistrate, the Reus performed duties of a Pontifex and an Augur Publica that fall under Constitutional authority and thus he remains subject to the laws governing his duties, including consular edicta as provided under Section I, Paragraph A.

 

More than two weeks have now transpired without the Reus complying with either edictum consularis and without replying to the Consul. During the time that expired, an effort was made by Pontifex and Senator Fl. Galerius Aurelianus to mediate a settlement whereby the archives of both lists would have been transferred to the Collegium Pontificum and made available to other Pontifices and Augures.  The Reus did not respond to such efforts of compromise. The Consul suggested to the Reus that he could hand over or share list ownerÂ’s privileges with another, as M. Cassius has done with regard to the  NRCollegiumPontificum list that is currently used by the Collegium Pontificum.  The Reus did not follow the example of the Pontifex Maximus, whereby another could comply with the edicta in his stead and he could therefore adhere to his own opinion.  But the Reus has not so much as responded with a refusal of the efforts at compromise.  The Reus has taken a stance that is in opposition to the law, a stance that opposes the rule of law in Nova Roma, a stance that impairs the sacerdotal Collegia, and has thereby created a situation that is detrimental to these Collegia properly executing their duties.

 

The Consul contends that failure to comply with the senatus consultum or with the edicta consularis by the Reus falls under the definition of the commission of a crime as provided in the Lex Salicia poenalis Part 5, Paragraphs 1 through 3.  In the first place, an action by the Reus years earlier created a situation that was detrimental to the Res Publica Nova Roma by, in effect, dissolving the Collegium Augurum, and in his refusal to subscribe into the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum those entitled under the Constitution Section VI.  The commission of a crime was next committed by inaction on the part of the Reus when he refused to comply with the edicta consularis that sought to correct the earlier situation which had created. 

 

 Lex Salicia poenalis 5.2: “A punishment due to inaction shall only be applied when the reus had a legal duty to act and, by omitting to perform that duty, caused a situation or created a risk to the detriment of others. An omission with intent to create such a situation or risk shall ordinarily receive a heavier penalty than one without such intent.”

 

The Consul contends that the Reus had a legal duty to act as a Pontifex, as an Augur, and as a Senator, as well as a Citizens to comply with an Edictum Consularis.  The Consul contends that the Reus omitted to perform that duty.  The Consul, as Actor in this case, contends that the Reus caused a situation through his earlier action, depriving Nova Roma of its Collegium Augurum, inhibiting the Collegium Pontificum, and depriving Nova Roma of the archives of both the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum. Further, the Reus compounded his unlawful actions by his later inaction to comply with the Edicta Consulares that were issued to remedy the situation thet the Reus had created, and to allow the Senate to meet with its oversight duties.  Thereby the Reus initially caused and created a detrimental situation for the Res Publica of Nova Roma, and has continued to maintain this detrimental situation for the past four years.  Further, the Consul contends that the Reus, as a Senator, had knowledge of the senatus consultus prior to its publication on 28 January, that he commented in Senate chambers to indicate that he would not comply with any forthcoming edictum consularis intended to enforce the decision of the Senate, and therefore that his omissions of compliance must be regarded as an intentional commision of a criminal act by inaction.  The Consul further contends that, although brought together under the senatus consultus and the edicta consulares, the situation with each list is different and thus that inaction on the part of Reus in this regard constitutes two separate instances of commission of a crime by inaction, and that each day that the Reus has failed to comply with the edicta has constituted a seaparate incident, and that for each member of the Senate that the Reus has not subscribed to either list, for each day, for each list constitute separate incidents of intential commision of crimes against the Res Publica Nova Roma.

 

The Consul contends that the intentional commision of crimes as stated above, perpetrated by the Reus through inaction, constituted an ABUSUS POTESTATIS in as much as the Reus held the lists in question by virtue of his being a Pontifex and an Augur, respective to the two lists, and was exercising usufruct privileges on behalf of those two constitutionally estanblished Collegia and the Senate of the People of Nova Roma.  Although not in a strict sense was the Reus a magistrate, his role and function by virtue of the priestly offices that he holds under the Constitution, placed him in a quasi-magisterial position.  As at least four Senators and/or Senatrices attempted to exercise their consitutional rights and privelage to subscribe to the lists, there are no less than 136 counts ABUSUS POTESTATIS here.

 

The Consul contends, under Lex Salicia Poenalis, Part 18, that the Reus committed a crime of CONTMELIS PIETATE in that his inaction infringes on the freedom of another person and persons to hold religious beliefs, to engage in religious teaching, practice, worship and observance by depriving the archives of the Collegia to the other members of the Collegia, respectively.  By his own action, expelling from the lists those entitled by law to be on the list but whom he had arbitrarily denied subscription, and later by inaction, in not subscribing those who had since become Pontifices and/or Augures, the Reus, without any authority, had effectively closed the Collegium Augurum.  The Consul realises that more parties are effected by this, but as there are two lists involved here he shall claim, as Actor, only two counts of CONTMELIS PIETATE against the Reus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus.

 

The Consul contends, under Lex Salicia Poenalis, Part 21, that the Reus has committed a crime of LAESA PATRIAE in as much as his inaction to comply with edicta consularis is damaging to the Res Publica, its religio Romana, and its institutions, and further that the failure to comply with the senatus consultus and edicta consulares endanger the ability of the republic, its religion, and its institutions to perform their legal functions.  The Reus continues to deprive the Pontifices and Augures access to the archives of their respective Collegia.  Thus may they not consult the archives when attempting to fulfill their duties of instructing on the religio Romana, nor when attempting to make a determination on religious or augural law in conformity with their constitutional duties.  Also the inaction of the Reus, in refusing to comply with the edicta consulares, deprives each member of the Senate of being able to carry out his or her constitutional duties and responsibilities over the religious institutions of Nova Roma.  This situation also gives rise to constitutional questions, as it involves the relationship of different institutions towards one another; in this case the SenateÂ’s ability to determine policy for Nova Roma, the ability of the office of the Consules to execute policy as determined by the Senate, and the ability of each of the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum in exercising their respective responsibilities towards the Senate and the various magisterial offices of Nova Roma when one member of the respective collegia fails to comply with the law.  As the Reus has placed himself outside the Constitution and has made himself outside the edictorial law by not replying and not responding to the consulÂ’s email, he has committed two acts, one with each of the Collegium Augurum list and the Collegium Pontificum lists, and committed two crimes by inaction, for a minimum of four counts of LAESA PATRIAE are involved here.

 

The Consul contends, under Lex Salicia Poenalis, Part 22, that the Reus, by intentionally refusing access to those entitled by law to access the archives of those two lists involved, constitutes an iniuria that is detrimental to the interests of the State and to its Citizens of Nova Roma.  Posts that were made to the lists while they were still in use by the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum, respectively, constitute archives that are rightfully the property of Nova Roma and not the property of the Reus as he contends.  Refusing access to the property of the State constitutes a misuse of the property  that thereby amounts to damage and/or destruction of said archives.  The individuals initially involved are the Senators and Senatrices, of which at least thirty-five are being denied access of any kind to the archives of these two two lists by this one individual, and having done so for seventeen days, he has now knowinglt and intentionally committed 1190 acts of INIURIA

 

Furthermore, in reference to Decretum Collegii Pontificum et Augurum De Iure Auspicandi et Tripudio, a.d IIII Nonas Decembras AUC MMDCCLVI, in as much as the law provides that “it shall constitute an offence of impietas prudens dolo malo for a curule magistrate to knowingly convene a meeting of the Comitia Centuriata, Comitia Populi Tributa, or the Senate without performance of a valid auspication,” and that the Reus in as much as by refusing access to the archives of the Collegium Augurum to his fellow Augurs, the Reus inhibited curule magistrates from performing their duties in a correct manner as prescribed by law and religious scruple, and also created the situation that inhibits his colleagues from performing their duties of assisting and instructing others, by denying them access to the archives.  The Consul contends therefore that the Reus has knowingly committed what amounts to at least two counts of IMPIETAS PRUDENS DOLO MALO by denying access to two other Augurs.

 

DE PETITIO ACTIONIS:

 

The Reus is in direct defiance of Consular Auctoritas; his failure to comply with the Law and his failure to comply with his duties and responsibilities as a Senator, a Pontifex, and as an Augur, now require that the Consul brings this petitio actionis on behalf of Senate and the People of Nova Roma against Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Flamen Martialis, Pontifex, Augur, and Senator.

 

In as much as this matter concerns an individual, acting in the official capacities of his offices, has chosen to defy the instruction of the edicta consulares IV and V, issued in January 2761 AUC, and that he is now in defiance of a senatus consultus and edicta consulares by reason of his continuing to refuse to subscribes any and all Senatores and Senatrices, without exception, as the law requires, the Consul requests that the Praetores consider the submitted letter as a demonstratio of the inaction by the Reus be regarded as  intentio certa and thus that these matter be dealt with accordingly in celerity and severity.

 

On behalf of the Res Publica Nova Roma, in order to benefit the institutions of the religio Romana in Nova Roma, therefore the Consul seeks a judgment that the archives from the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum, currently being withheld by the Reus, shall be immediately turned over to the Collegium Pontificum. 

 

In as much as the Reus has committed actions of ABUSUS POTENTATES, the Consul, as Actor, seeks MULTA PECUNIARIA in the sum equal to the annual tax owed by the Reus, that such sums be imposed for each instance of abusus potentates committed by the the Reus, that each instance shall be considered with regard to each list held by the Reus that were intended for the use of the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum as two separate instances, that each day the Reus has refused compliance to the edicta consulares be considered separate instances per list, that each member of the Senate refused each day, on each of the lists, be considered separate incidents, beginning with the Nones of February. While all of the Senatores and Senatrices could be considered here, the Consul make claim for only 5 Senatores and Senatrices at this time, for each list, for each day, for a minimum of 136 counts of ABUSUS POTENTATES.  Secondly, the Conaul, as Actor, asks that unless and until the Reus pays the fines imposed by the Praetores, that the Reus be regarded as under a sentence of INHABILITATIO with a loss of all rights to vote and to hold any honors or offices.  If the Reus does not comply with the decision of a praetorial tribunal, then the Consul, as Actor, reserves the right to seek a judgement of EXACTIO.

 

In regard to the claim of two counts of CONTUMELIA PIETATE and the attendant claim of two counts on an offense of IMPIETAS PRUDENS DOLO MALO, the pontifical Decretum De Iure Auspicandi et Tripudio IV.B allows no other punishment than that the Reus suffer the penalty of EXACTIO FOR LIFE.

 

In regard to the claim of LAESA PATRIAE, in as much as the Reus is found to have seriously and explicitly endangered the continued existence of the Republic of Nova Roma, its properties, its institutions, its Constitution, and the position of the Religio Romana as the state religion, the Lex Salicia Poenalis 21.3 allows a judgement to impose no less than one (1) year of EXACTIO, up to a sentence of EXACTIO FOR LIFE.  The Consul seeks leniency and asks that the Praetores hand down a judgement imposing a sentence of EXACTIO that shall be no less and no more than one (1) yearÂ’s time for each of the four counts of LAESA PATRIAE.

 

In regard to the claim of INIURIA, in as much as the Reus witholds the archives from two lists, and in doing so continuaully, his inaction leads to a situation that is detrimental to the interests of the State and to its Citizens of Nova Roma, the Consul once again contends that actions not taken on either list constitute separate instances, that each day the Reus has refused compliance to the Edicta Consulares be considered separate instances per list, that each member of the Senate refused each day, on each of the lists, be considered separate incidents, beginning with the Nones of February, for not less than 136 counts of INIURIA. Secondly, that unless and until the Reus pays the fines imposed by the Praetores, that the Reus be regarded as under a sentence of INHABILITATIO with a loss of all rights to vote and to hold any honors or offices.  If the Reus does not comply with the decision of a praetorial tribunal, then the Actor reserves the right, as Consul, to seek a judgement of EXACTIO.

 

Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim

 

 

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55155 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: FORMULA: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS LUCIUS EQUITIUS CINCINNAT
Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD
 
Ex officio praetoris
In accordance with the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, concerning the charge of violation of the Lex Salicia Poenalis provision regarding  Abusus Potestatis, Contumelia Pietate, Laesa Patriae, Iniura and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo  , brought by the Actor M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus against the Reus Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, I pronounce the following FORMULA:
 
INSTITVTIO IVDICIS
 
I hereby appoint the following citizens as iudices
 
Let
  1. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
  2. Marca Hortensia Maior,
  3. Titus Flavius Aquila,
  4. Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
  5. Caius Iulius Verus,
  6. Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
  7. Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
  8. Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
  9. Marianus Adrianus Sarus, 
  10. Caius Arminius Recanellus 
be the iudices.
 
INTENTIO ET DEMONSTRATIO:
 
Petitio Actionis:
Actor:  Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
Reus:  Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Charge:  Abusus Potestatis, Contumelia Pietate, Laesa Patriae, Iniura and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo.

The Reus is in direct defiance of Consular Auctoritas; his failure to comply with the Law and his failure to comply with his duties and responsibilities as a Senator, a Pontifex, and as an Augur, now require that the Consul brings this petitio actionis on behalf of Senate and the People of Nova Roma against Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, Flamen Martialis, Pontifex, Augur, and Senator.

 

In as much as this matter concerns an individual, acting in the official capacities of his offices, has chosen to defy the instruction of the edicta consulares IV and V, issued in January 2761 AUC, and that he is now in defiance of a senatus consultus and edicta consulares by reason of his continuing to refuse to subscribes any and all Senatores and Senatrices, without exception, as the law requires, the Consul requests that the Praetores consider the submitted letter as a demonstratio of the inaction by the Reus be regarded as  intentio certa and thus that these matter be dealt with accordingly in celerity and severity.

 

On behalf of the Res Publica Nova Roma, in order to benefit the institutions of the religio Romana in Nova Roma, therefore the Consul seeks a judgment that the archives from the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum, currently being withheld by the Reus, shall be immediately turned over to the Collegium Pontificum. 

 

In as much as the Reus has committed actions of ABUSUS POTENTATES, the Consul, as Actor, seeks MULTA PECUNIARIA in the sum equal to the annual tax owed by the Reus, that such sums be imposed for each instance of abusus potentates committed by the the Reus, that each instance shall be considered with regard to each list held by the Reus that were intended for the use of the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum as two separate instances, that each day the Reus has refused compliance to the edicta consulares be considered separate instances per list, that each member of the Senate refused each day, on each of the lists, be considered separate incidents, beginning with the Nones of February. While all of the Senatores and Senatrices could be considered here, the Consul make claim for only 5 Senatores and Senatrices at this time, for each list, for each day, for a minimum of 136 counts of ABUSUS POTENTATES.  Secondly, the Conaul, as Actor, asks that unless and until the Reus pays the fines imposed by the Praetores, that the Reus be regarded as under a sentence of INHABILITATIO with a loss of all rights to vote and to hold any honors or offices.  If the Reus does not comply with the decision of a praetorial tribunal, then the Consul, as Actor, reserves the right to seek a judgement of EXACTIO.

 

In regard to the claim of two counts of CONTUMELIA PIETATE and the attendant claim of two counts on an offense of IMPIETAS PRUDENS DOLO MALO, the pontifical Decretum De Iure Auspicandi et Tripudio IV.B allows no other punishment than that the Reus suffer the penalty of EXACTIO FOR LIFE.

 

In regard to the claim of LAESA PATRIAE, in as much as the Reus is found to have seriously and explicitly endangered the continued existence of the Republic of Nova Roma, its properties, its institutions, its Constitution, and the position of the Religio Romana as the state religion, the Lex Salicia Poenalis 21.3 allows a judgement to impose no less than one (1) year of EXACTIO, up to a sentence of EXACTIO FOR LIFE.  The Consul seeks leniency and asks that the Praetores hand down a judgement imposing a sentence of EXACTIO that shall be no less and no more than one (1) yearÂ’s time for each of the four counts of LAESA PATRIAE.

 

In regard to the claim of INIURIA, in as much as the Reus witholds the archives from two lists, and in doing so continuaully, his inaction leads to a situation that is detrimental to the interests of the State and to its Citizens of Nova Roma, the Consul once again contends that actions not taken on either list constitute separate instances, that each day the Reus has refused compliance to the Edicta Consulares be considered separate instances per list, that each member of the Senate refused each day, on each of the lists, be considered separate incidents, beginning with the Nones of February, for not less than 136 counts of INIURIA. Secondly, that unless and until the Reus pays the fines imposed by the Praetores, that the Reus be regarded as under a sentence of INHABILITATIO with a loss of all rights to vote and to hold any honors or offices.  If the Reus does not comply with the decision of a praetorial tribunal, then the Actor reserves the right, as Consul, to seek a judgement of EXACTIO.

 

 

CONDEMMATIO:
 
If it is proven that L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur violated the sections of the Lex Salicia Poenalis concerning:
 
Abusus Potestatis  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of MULTA PECUNIARIA, INHABILITATIO and EXATIO, 
Contumelia Pietate and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO
Laesa Patriae  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO
and Inhiura  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of INHABILITATIO and EXATIO.
 
DE IUDICIO
 
The court will meet on the list of Nova Roma Tribunalis (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/)    the next March 3rd 2008 (a.d. V Non. Mar).

Actor, Reus, Advocati et Iudices must join list before that date.
 
Datum sub manu mea a.d. XII Kal. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand February 18th 2008 in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius


===========

Valete.
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55156 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Edictum Praetoricium LIII (Complutensis XXVIII) Provincia Hispania
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
 
Marcus Curiatius Complutensis Praetor Hispaniae omnes civibus Hispaniae SPD
 
 
De acuerdo con el Edicto Consular sobre impuestos a Nova Roma,  se llama a todos los ciudadanos para que realicen el pago de los impuestos anuales a Nova Roma.
 
 
El importe de los impuestos para este año depende de la zona geografica de residencia de acuerdo con el siguiente baremo:
 
 
- Residentes en el Reino de España : 8,25 Euros
 
- Residentes en Portugal: 5,33 Euros
 
- Residentes en Andorra: 8,25 Euros.
 
 
Las tablas oficiales para todo el mundo están publicadas en http://www.novaroma.org/nr/ES:Tax_rate_MMDCCLXI.
 
Para realizarel pago ponerse en contacto con el [mailto:nrhispania@...  Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis] que facilitará de forma privada un número de cuenta bancaria.  Aquellos ciudadanos que lo deseen también pueden usar el sistema descrito en http://www.novaroma.org/nr/ES:Tax_rate_MMDCCLXI
 
 
Todos los ciudadanos que realicen el ingreso o transferencia deberán comunicarlo mediante mail al  Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis.
 
El plazo para pagar los impuestos finaliza el dia 30 de Abril.
 
 
Todo pago realizado fuera de plazo tendrá un recargo del 50%.
 
 
Este Edicto entra en vigor inmediatamente.
 
 
Dado a 18 de Febrero de 2008 EC
 
a.d. XII Kal. Mar. M. Moravio T. Iulio Cos MMDCCLXI a.u.c 
 

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55157 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Albucius Triario s.d.


As I proposed you for Mons Aventinus, we might imagine some link with
our Ludi. For ex. why not externalize some parts of our contests, in
order to have our cives go to both sites finding stuff or answering
some question ?

Vale optime,


PMA


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> After searching the globe for the right venue, and acting upon the
> wise advice of Senator Saturninus, I have located and established
the
> latest of my NR projects that I would like to share with everyone.
>
> If you click on this link:
>
> http://romanspace.ning.com
>
> You will find the newest social network on the Internet. The
> RomanSpace Network is a MySpace/Facebook/Blogger type environment
> that I have created for Nova Roma and any other Roman enthusiast.
It
> operates basically the same way and many of the features will
> integrate with Facebook pages.
>
> Finally, our organization can have its own dedicated social network
> platform.
>
> You may access RomanSpace through the link above or through the
main
> page and left sidebar directory of monsaventinus.wikia.com, if you
> visit there.
>
> For those of you who have or are interested in having a domus space
> on one of the Mons Aventinus streets, but are not prone to wiki-
> editing, you can simply register for a RomanSpace page, then email
me
> the link and the MA street you live on, and I will link it for you.
>
> Vale optime,
> Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55158 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: PAGO DE IMPVESTOS EN 2008 (MMDCCLXI A.V.C.)
EDICTVM PRÆTORICIVM X (SEVERVS V) PROVINCIA MEXICO
 
EX OFFICIO PRÆTORIS MEXICO

MARCVS IVLIVS SEVERVS PRÆTOR MEXICO OMNES CIVIBVS PROVINCIA MEXICO SPD

De conformidad con lo dispuesto en el Edicto Consular sobre impuestos, hago un llamado a todos los ciudadanos de esta Provincia, para que realicen el pago de los impuestos anuales a Nova Roma.
El importe correspondiente a este año, es de 45 pesos mexicanos, o 4.16 dólares estadunidenses.  
Las tablas oficiales para todo el mundo están publicadas en http://www.novaroma .org/nr/ES: Tax_rate_ MMDCCLXI.
Para realizar el pago, pueden ponerse en contacto con el Prætor M. Iulius Severus, que les proporcionara en privado el numero de una cuenta bancaria; o, si lo prefieren, pueden utilizar el sistema descrito en http://www.novaroma .org/nr/ES: Tax_rate_ MMDCCLXI
Tanto quienes realicen el pago mediante depósito bancario, como quienes opten por el otro sistema –de transferencia bancaria--,  deberán hacerlo del conocimiento del  Prætor M. Iulius Severus, por vía de un mensaje de correo electrónico.
El plazo para pagar los impuestos finaliza el día 30 de abril y todo pago realizado después de esa fecha, tendrá un recargo del 50%.
Este Edicto entra en vigor inmediatamente.
 
Dado a 18 de febrero de 2008 d.n.e.
a.d. XII Kal. Mar. M. Moravio T. Iulio Cos MMDCCLXI a.u.c


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55159 From: Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR
Salvete,

I just signed up too!

http://romanspace.ning.com/profile/fmgm

Valete,
F. Martiania

(Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis)




On Feb 18, 2008 8:28 AM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

Awesome thank you!
 
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] RomanSpace: My Latest Project for NR

Salvete omnes,

After searching the globe for the right venue, and acting upon the
wise advice of Senator Saturninus, I have located and established the
latest of my NR projects that I would like to share with everyone.

If you click on this link:

http://romanspace.ning.com

You will find the newest social network on the Internet. The
RomanSpace Network is a MySpace/Facebook/Blogger type environment
that I have created for Nova Roma and any other Roman enthusiast. It
operates basically the same way and many of the features will
integrate with Facebook pages.

Finally, our organization can have its own dedicated social network
platform.

You may access RomanSpace through the link above or through the main
page and left sidebar directory of monsaventinus.wikia.com, if you
visit there.

For those of you who have or are interested in having a domus space
on one of the Mons Aventinus streets, but are not prone to wiki-
editing, you can simply register for a RomanSpace page, then email me
the link and the MA street you live on, and I will link it for you.

Vale optime,
Triarius




--
Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis

My Myspace space
http://www.myspace.com/faustamartiania
My Yahoo 360 page
http://360.yahoo.com/minervalis_barnowl
My RomanSpace page
http://romanspace.ning.com/fmgm
My Complete Forum Signature
http://socaldeni.googlepages.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55160 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Magna Mater Project
Salvete omnes

I am having problems finding the investors page of the Magna Mater
project.

I'm trying to get to pages such as
http://www.magnamaterproject.org/en/project/investors.htm

But I'm getting Error 404: Page not found, on this and similar searches.

Has something gone wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

Valete optime

Gaius Marcius Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55161 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: Magna Mater Project
SALVE!
 
Probably Montanus reseted the server this night. Is not a problem. Try tommorow.
 
VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Gaius Marcius Crispus <jbshr1pwa@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes

I am having problems finding the investors page of the Magna Mater
project.

I'm trying to get to pages such as
http://www.magnamat erproject. org/en/project/ investors. htm

But I'm getting Error 404: Page not found, on this and similar searches.

Has something gone wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.

Valete optime

Gaius Marcius Crispus




"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55162 From: Igor Tasevski Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: PASSPORTS
Salvete

I think that we the citizens of Nova Roma who some day we like to establish our territory like country, i think to develop now a passports of Nova Roma to all of the citizens.With those passports we can travell anywhere where are our people are,the people who can offer to us a accomodation and things like that.
Don't you think is a good idea.

Valete



Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salvete

Here is a site of an ID company that we can use online to make cards for all
of our taxpaying citizens. This would be in addition to a citizenship
certificate/diploma that I am currently designing. When I have the first
draft finalized I will post it. I am thinking of a diploma size certificate
one side in Latin the other in ones native language.

The good thing about an online company like this is that
we design the card and they print them. We don�t have to buy any equipment
of any kind.

http://www.vridcards.com/PhotoID.htm


Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus





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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55163 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Salvete:

No offense, but I think it is a terrible idea.  We have people (mostly in Africa) who apply to join Nova Roma for the sole reason of getting a passport and leaving the country they live in for a better life.  We have no substantial land in which people can emigrate.   Additionally, just because someone is a citizen of Nova Roma doesn't mean they are automatically welcome at my home.

A membership certificate, I think that might be doable -- but only for Assidui citizens.

Valete;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
Censor

On Feb 18, 2008 8:09 PM, Igor Tasevski <igor388@...> wrote:

Salvete

I think that we the citizens of Nova Roma who some day we like to establish our territory like country, i think to develop now a passports of Nova Roma to all of the citizens.With those passports we can travell anywhere where are our people are,the people who can offer to us a accomodation and things like that.
Don't you think is a good idea.

Valete


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55164 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-18
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.

I agree with Modianus. We would not want to present ourselves as in
any way similar to any of the many passport scams now operating on the
internet. I can't imagine that anyone on the Board of Directors would
vote in favor of the issuance of "passports".

My personal opinion is that any energy or money that might be looking
for an outlet should be directed towards promoting more real life
events such as the Conventus in Europa, the new North American
Conventus or regional events.

Optime valete


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete:
>
> No offense, but I think it is a terrible idea. We have people
(mostly in
> Africa) who apply to join Nova Roma for the sole reason of getting a
> passport and leaving the country they live in for a better life. We
have no
> substantial land in which people can emigrate. Additionally, just
because
> someone is a citizen of Nova Roma doesn't mean they are automatically
> welcome at my home.
>
> A membership certificate, I think that might be doable -- but only for
> Assidui citizens.
>
> Valete;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Censor
>
> On Feb 18, 2008 8:09 PM, Igor Tasevski <igor388@...> wrote:
>
> > Salvete
> >
> > I think that we the citizens of Nova Roma who some day we like to
> > establish our territory like country, i think to develop now a
passports of
> > Nova Roma to all of the citizens.With those passports we can travell
> > anywhere where are our people are,the people who can offer to us a
> > accomodation and things like that.
> > Don't you think is a good idea.
> >
> > Valete
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55165 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: a. d. XI Kal. Mart.: Battle of Lugdunum, 197 CE
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Salvete, vosque bona Iuppiter auctet ope.

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:

AUC 950 / 197 CE: Septimus Severus defeats Clodius Albinus at
Lugdunum.

In the Year of the Five Emperors, P. Helvius Pertinax was murdered on
28 March 193 after ruling for only 87 days. His murderer, Praetorian
Praefectus Aemilius Laetus, put the throne up for sale. After all,
Pertinax was a little miserly with the Praetorians. A wealthy
Senator Didius Julianus bought the title and lasted until 1 June.
Lucius Septimus Severus, commending the legions of Pannonia, took
Rome, in the name of Decimus Clodius Albinus, and subsequently had
Didius Julianus executed. Meanwhile in the East, the legions of
Syria declared Pescennius Niger emperor. Niger, with six to nine
legions and a large body of auxiliaries and was met by Severus on the
River Issus in 194 CE.

Clodius Albinus had been declared emperor by his troops in
Britannia. He stripped Britannia of nearly every soldier, crossing
into Gaul in 196 CE with Legiones II Augusta, VI Victrix, and XX
Valeria Victrix, where the Spanish Legio VII Gemina joined with him.
Virius Lupus, who would later replace Albinus as governor of
Britannia, had brought the legiones of his German province to the
support of Severus, but was soon swept aside by the force that
Albinus had gathered. Albinus controlled nearly the entire Western
portion of the Empire, while Septimus Severus tentatively held the
East by 197 CE. Severus reinforced the Alpine passes, and thereby
kept Albinus from advancing further. Then he gathered his forces
along the Danube before crossing into Gaul in a awinter campaign.

After an initial victory by Severus at Tinurtium on the Saone River,
Albinus retired on Lugdunum. It was there that, on 19 Feb. 197 CE,
Severus and Albinus fought what is regarded as the largest, hardest
fought, and bloodiest Roman battles. And we know vey little about
it. The armies on either side were about equal in number, each side
ranging from 100,000 to 150,000 soldiers. Severus seems to have had
a small advantage in cavalry, as in the end this became the telling
factor. Advantage in the battle shifted swiftly and often over a two
day period. Finally the forces of Septimus Severus gained a minor
advantage, and when the cavalry were sent in to exploit it, the
situation proved too much for the exhausted legiones of Albinus to
resist further.

The body of Albinus was found, stripped naked, beheaded, and Severus
then road his horse over the corpse before his men. Britannia,
having been stripped of legions by Albinus, proved the trouble spot
for Severus. First Virius Lupus was made governor (until about 202
CE), restoring some control over the region south of Hadrian's Wall,
but the region further north he abandoned. The Wall of Hadrian could
not be rebuilt until some years later, c. 205 CE. Even that was not
the end of Severus' troubles in Britannia. On 4 Feb. 211 Septimius
Severus died near York while fight yet another uprising in
troublesome Britannia.


AUC 1109 / 356 CE: On this day Constantius II ordered the removal of
statues and the closing of the temples.


Our thought for today comes from Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Natura
Deorum 2.57:

"Now Zeno gives this definition of nature: nature (he says) is a
craftsman like fire, proceeding methodically to the work of
generation. For he holds that the special function of an art or craft
is to create or generate, and that what in the processes of our arts
is done by the hand is done with far more skilful craftsmanship by
nature, that is, as I said, by that 'craftsman like' fire which is
the teacher of the other arts."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55166 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: North American Conventus
Ecastor Quirites!
this will be fantastic. I am on the Senate Committee & am utterly
keen to have the Conventus and have activities such as :
having rituals!
learning to take personal auspices!
drinking Mulsum & saluting Bacchus:) aka a Convivium
with lots of Latin poetry, Philosophy; just what Romans would
do with their otium.

So please join, and contribute your ideas about what you'd like to
do and where. Your imput will make this a wonderful Conventus.
M. Hortensia Maior

producer "Vox Romana" podcast


>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> We're going to have a conventus somewhere in North America this
year.
> If you're interested in organizing it, or just in being there,
please
> join me at the NovaRomaCon mailing list. You can join by going
to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaCon and following the
directions
> about how to join. Or, just send a blank e-mail message to
> NovaRomaCon-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Valete,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55167 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: FORMULA: M.MORAVIUS PISCINUS HORATIANUS VS LUCIUS EQUITIUS CINCI
On 2/18/08, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS wrote:
> [excision]
>
> I hereby appoint the following citizens as iudices
>
> Let
>
> [excision]
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> [excision]
> be the iudices.
>

I accept.

vale - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55168 From: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salvete,


For the Nova Roma coinage: Yes, the NR coin is a very nice memento. I
plan to buy one eventually myself.

But that is not something that you would carry around with you. At
least I would not, for fear of losing it. An ID card can be kept with
you at all times, and could be a means of identification within NR. A
form of identification that identifies NR citizenship without
revealing legal/national citizenship.

I also like the idea of the certificate, as it is something you could
hang on your wall proudly to show guests your alliegiance. (also a
nice conversation piece)


As for an official proposal: I would offer to help, in any way that I
could, with such a proposal but someone else would have to take the
lead on it. (I do not have the confidence,as such a new citizen, to
lead a committe to create such a proposal) I hope that someone will
step up to that challenge. When they do they can contact me and I will
aid them as best I can.


For VR ID cards company: They might be worth talking too. And having
such a company make the cards would make the whole operation a lot
easier.

NR would have to make sure that they would not make duplicate style ID
cards for other customers...as to keep official NR cards (as requested
through, I would guess, the Censor's office) authentic.


Here are some basic steps we could take towards VR ID card company (or
another company):

a. Research their prices, and shipping fees.

b. Contact the company and see if they have a free prototype card they
could send for inspection by the committee.


c.If the committee would like to continue with that company, they
could then agree to a design for a prototype Nova Roma card, and
procure it for inspection.

d. If prices, shipping fees and the prototype card all meet with
approval then an official ID card design could be approved by the
committee. And then the committee could design a system by which a
citizen could procure their own card.

I think it would be best if the citizen first submitted a request and
payment to the Censor's office so that the requestee's identity as a
member of NR could be confirmed. Then the Censor's office could
forward the payment for the card to be made and shipped to the
requestee.

By routing the request through the Censor's office, and giving the
sole authority for creation of ID cards to the Censor's office we
could secure the authenticity of the ID cards. (hopefully)

Because if any person could contact, request and pay for an ID card
from the company then there would be no assurance as to whether a
person owning a card was really a citizen or not.


That all depends upon whether authenticity is really an issue to
citizens in the first place.

It has to be decided whether the ID cards be made to be secure as
possible (in that only actual citizens could procure them) or if it be
a simplier system...where anyone could get a card.


So, I will wait now to see what people think of all that. (I was just
throwing some ideas out there) And if someone would like to step up to
head a committee on the matter.


Valete,

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55169 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of
 

Titus Flavius Aquila M. Hirti Ahenobarbo salutem plurimam dicit

 

Salve Ahenobarbus,

 

I like your approach and I fully support it ! I like especially the idea of a Roman Certificate, if this one is placed

at special place in ones house or apartment, it will be recognized by guests and could bring us more citizens.

 

We just need to get started !

 

Last but not least, I also like the idea of Livia Plauta which brings a connection to our glorious past.Maybe the ideas could

be bundled and we will have an id card ( Wallet size) after all it is the 30th century of Roman evolution , an Roman Certificate and a small bronze tablet. 

 

I call again on the senate to support the wish of the citizens and to appoint a task force for following up the ideas of the citizens of Nova Roma.

  

Optime Vale

Titus Flavius Aquila

Tribunus Plebis

Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania

Scriba Censoris KFBM

 

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus <marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 19. Februar 2008, 07:43:06 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma

Salvete,

For the Nova Roma coinage: Yes, the NR coin is a very nice memento. I
plan to buy one eventually myself.

But that is not something that you would carry around with you. At
least I would not, for fear of losing it. An ID card can be kept with
you at all times, and could be a means of identification within NR. A
form of identification that identifies NR citizenship without
revealing legal/national citizenship.

I also like the idea of the certificate, as it is something you could
hang on your wall proudly to show guests your alliegiance. (also a
nice conversation piece)

As for an official proposal: I would offer to help, in any way that I
could, with such a proposal but someone else would have to take the
lead on it. (I do not have the confidence,as such a new citizen, to
lead a committe to create such a proposal) I hope that someone will
step up to that challenge. When they do they can contact me and I will
aid them as best I can.

For VR ID cards company: They might be worth talking too. And having
such a company make the cards would make the whole operation a lot
easier.

NR would have to make sure that they would not make duplicate style ID
cards for other customers... as to keep official NR cards (as requested
through, I would guess, the Censor's office) authentic.

Here are some basic steps we could take towards VR ID card company (or
another company):

a. Research their prices, and shipping fees.

b. Contact the company and see if they have a free prototype card they
could send for inspection by the committee.

c.If the committee would like to continue with that company, they
could then agree to a design for a prototype Nova Roma card, and
procure it for inspection.

d. If prices, shipping fees and the prototype card all meet with
approval then an official ID card design could be approved by the
committee. And then the committee could design a system by which a
citizen could procure their own card.

I think it would be best if the citizen first submitted a request and
payment to the Censor's office so that the requestee's identity as a
member of NR could be confirmed. Then the Censor's office could
forward the payment for the card to be made and shipped to the
requestee.

By routing the request through the Censor's office, and giving the
sole authority for creation of ID cards to the Censor's office we
could secure the authenticity of the ID cards. (hopefully)

Because if any person could contact, request and pay for an ID card
from the company then there would be no assurance as to whether a
person owning a card was really a citizen or not.

That all depends upon whether authenticity is really an issue to
citizens in the first place.

It has to be decided whether the ID cards be made to be secure as
possible (in that only actual citizens could procure them) or if it be
a simplier system...where anyone could get a card.

So, I will wait now to see what people think of all that. (I was just
throwing some ideas out there) And if someone would like to step up to
head a committee on the matter.

Valete,

M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus




>Ihre erste Baustelle? Wissenswertes für Bastler und Hobby Handwerker.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55170 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: PORTUGUÊS - Edictum Praetoricium LIII (Complutensis XXVIII) Provinc
Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
 
Marcus Curiatius Complutensis Praetor Hispaniae omnes civibus Hispaniae SPD
 
 De acordo com o Édito Consular sobre impostos em Nova Roma, convocam-se a todos os cidadãos para que realizem o pagamento dos impostos anuais de Nova Roma.
 
A importância dos impostos para este ano depende da zona geográfica de residência de acordo com a lista a seguir: 
 
 Residentes no Reino da Espanha: 8,25 euros
 
 Residentes em Portugal: 5,33 euros
 
 Residentes em Andorra: 8,25 euros 
 
 As tabelas oficiais para todo o mundo estão publicadas em http://www.novaroma.org/nr/PT:Tax_rate_MMDCCLXI.
 
 Para realizar o pagamento, entre em contato com nrhispania@...   em nome do Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis , que fornecerá em mensagem particular o número se sua conta bancária. Aqueles que desejarem também poderão usar o sistema descrito em http://www.novaroma.org/nr/PT:Tax_rate_MMDCCLXI
 
Todos os cidadãos que efetuarem depósito ou transferência devem comunicar por email ao Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis.
 
 O prazo para pagar os impostos termina em 30 de abril. 
 
 Todo o pagamento realizado fora do prazo terá uma multa de 50%. 
 
 Este édito entra em vigor imediatamente. 
 
 Dado em 18 de  fevereiro  de 2008 EC
 
a.d. XII Kal. Mar. M. Moravio T. Iulio Cos MMDCCLXI a.u.c 
 

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA 
 
[Traduzido para o português pelo Intérprete T. Arminius Genialis, a partir de documento original emitido pelo Pretor M. Curiatius Complutensis. A versão oficial é a em espanhol.] 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55171 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS


-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR
Fecha: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:15:09 -0000
De: M. CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
Responder-a:: Novaromatribunalis-owner@yahoogroups.com
A: Novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com


Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD

FIRST CALL: 

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO

I call to speak Actor and Reus. The must sat: "I AM HERE"



COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.

If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose evidence to
back his demands,

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.

Curate ut valete





 
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55172 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salvete,

How about a printed, nice quality ID card and Certificate as part of
the membership fee, with the option to purchase a scroll or brass
tablet, with a portion of the proceeds going to the province, where
the civis lives. If they were offered through something like a
clickbank account, the proceeds would be automatically deducted from
the sale and placed into a NR account for that purpose and
administered by the appropriate Quaestores?

Vale optime,
Triarius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila M. Hirti Ahenobarbo salutem plurimam dicit
>
> Salve Ahenobarbus,
>
> I like your approach and I fully support it ! I like especially the
idea of a Roman Certificate, if this one is placed
> at special place in ones house or apartment, it will be recognized
by guests and could bring us more citizens.
>
> We just need to get started !
>
> Last but not least, I also like the idea of Livia Plauta which
brings a connection to our glorious past.Maybe the ideas could
> be bundled and we will have an id card ( Wallet size) after all it
is the 30th century of Roman evolution , an Roman Certificate and a
small bronze tablet.
>
> I call again on the senate to support the wish of the citizens and
to appoint a task force for following up the ideas of the citizens of
Nova Roma.
>
> Optime Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
> Tribunus Plebis
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
>
> ----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
> Von: marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus <marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 19. Februar 2008, 07:43:06 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th
year of Nova Roma
>
> Salvete,
>
> For the Nova Roma coinage: Yes, the NR coin is a very nice memento.
I
> plan to buy one eventually myself.
>
> But that is not something that you would carry around with you. At
> least I would not, for fear of losing it. An ID card can be kept
with
> you at all times, and could be a means of identification within NR.
A
> form of identification that identifies NR citizenship without
> revealing legal/national citizenship.
>
> I also like the idea of the certificate, as it is something you
could
> hang on your wall proudly to show guests your alliegiance. (also a
> nice conversation piece)
>
> As for an official proposal: I would offer to help, in any way that
I
> could, with such a proposal but someone else would have to take the
> lead on it. (I do not have the confidence,as such a new citizen, to
> lead a committe to create such a proposal) I hope that someone will
> step up to that challenge. When they do they can contact me and I
will
> aid them as best I can.
>
> For VR ID cards company: They might be worth talking too. And
having
> such a company make the cards would make the whole operation a lot
> easier.
>
> NR would have to make sure that they would not make duplicate style
ID
> cards for other customers... as to keep official NR cards (as
requested
> through, I would guess, the Censor's office) authentic.
>
> Here are some basic steps we could take towards VR ID card company
(or
> another company):
>
> a. Research their prices, and shipping fees.
>
> b. Contact the company and see if they have a free prototype card
they
> could send for inspection by the committee.
>
> c.If the committee would like to continue with that company, they
> could then agree to a design for a prototype Nova Roma card, and
> procure it for inspection.
>
> d. If prices, shipping fees and the prototype card all meet with
> approval then an official ID card design could be approved by the
> committee. And then the committee could design a system by which a
> citizen could procure their own card.
>
> I think it would be best if the citizen first submitted a request
and
> payment to the Censor's office so that the requestee's identity as
a
> member of NR could be confirmed. Then the Censor's office could
> forward the payment for the card to be made and shipped to the
> requestee.
>
> By routing the request through the Censor's office, and giving the
> sole authority for creation of ID cards to the Censor's office we
> could secure the authenticity of the ID cards. (hopefully)
>
> Because if any person could contact, request and pay for an ID card
> from the company then there would be no assurance as to whether a
> person owning a card was really a citizen or not.
>
> That all depends upon whether authenticity is really an issue to
> citizens in the first place.
>
> It has to be decided whether the ID cards be made to be secure as
> possible (in that only actual citizens could procure them) or if it
be
> a simplier system...where anyone could get a card.
>
> So, I will wait now to see what people think of all that. (I was
just
> throwing some ideas out there) And if someone would like to step up
to
> head a committee on the matter.
>
> Valete,
>
> M. Hirtius Ahenobarbus
>
>
>
>
>
> Heute schon einen Blick in die Zukunft von E-Mails wagen?
Versuchen Sie´s mit dem neuen Yahoo! Mail. www.yahoo.de/mail
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55173 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcus_hirtius_ahenobarbus"
<marcushirtiusahenobarbus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
>
> For the Nova Roma coinage: Yes, the NR coin is a very nice memento. I
> plan to buy one eventually myself.
>
> But that is not something that you would carry around with you. At
> least I would not, for fear of losing it.

Salve, et salvete Omnes,


I've been carrying around one each of our sestertii for quite a while
now. The original coins were plated, and pocket wear scratches them,
but the new coins, the only ones available now, are not plated. I did
that so they would "tone" well and I really think that they do. They
are inexpensive and I really hoped that people *would* carry them around.

optime valete!

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55174 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Reminder to citizen/authors, 2/19/2008, 12:00 pm
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   Reminder to citizen/authors
 
Date:   Tuesday February 19, 2008
Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:   This event repeats every third month.
Notes:   Citizens who have authored books on any topic are invited to list them here:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Books_by_Nova_Roma_citizens

Contact the webmasters or the curule aediles or leave a message at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRWiki/ if you need help.
 
Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55175 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIA
Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD

SECOND CALL:

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO

I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,



COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.

If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose evidence to
back his demands,

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.

If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list novaromatribunalis at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".


Curate ut valete



--

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55176 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis]
Would it be ok if this whole thing was left on the tribunalis list. Is it
really necessary for me to have 3 copies of each post about this?


Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55177 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis]
Salve Marcella

the answer is YES: there is still people who seems that do not have
received the message.

Cura ut valeas

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima



Annia Minucia Marcella escribió:
> Would it be ok if this whole thing was left on the tribunalis list. Is it
> really necessary for me to have 3 copies of each post about this?
>
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55178 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> How about a printed, nice quality ID card and Certificate as part of
> the membership fee, with the option to purchase a scroll or brass
> tablet, with a portion of the proceeds going to the province, where
> the civis lives. If they were offered through something like a
> clickbank account, the proceeds would be automatically deducted from
> the sale and placed into a NR account for that purpose and
> administered by the appropriate Quaestores?
>
> Vale optime,
> Triarius
>
Salve lucius_vitellius_triarius
I would think the cost of the membership fee to have quality ID card
and Certificate as part of it, would make said membership fee 350% of
what it is now(making it like $52 USD)
and would make a lot more work for two officers and there staff( and
they work as it is 100's of hours a year now with-out a paycheck.
a " nice quality ID card and Certificate " costs a lot of money and
the one's from the VR web site is not in my mind " nice quality "

I have two other cards from them from two other org I am part of and
they cost over $24 each.

I think we should look into it. I just think that we will want very
high quality ID cards and Certificates ,and that will cost more then
i think people are willing to pay

vale
Marcus Cornelius Felix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55179 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIA
Salve Praetor,

Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?

Vale,

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
>
> SECOND CALL:
>
> SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>
> I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
>
>
>
> COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
>
> If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose evidence to
> back his demands,
>
> POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>
> If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list novaromatribunalis
at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
>
>
> Curate ut valete
>
>
>
> --
>
> M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55180 From: Neil (L. Salix) Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Coins
Salvete,
 
I received a bunch of coins form Harpax yesterday. They're great quality and very nice to look at. I would highly recommend anyone who hasn't already purchased some to do so right away.
 
I was also wondering if there are any of the first batch of coins available to buy.
 
 
Valete
 
L. Salix Cicero
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55181 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO M
Salve Laenas
 
Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain that this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim Tabularum, 
 
SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
 
If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he doesn't go, a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
 
COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
They shall plead together in person
 
POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
 
If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
 
Cura ut valeas
 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

 
 

 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re: IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR]]

Salve Praetor,

Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?

Vale,

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
<complutensis@ ...> wrote:
>
> Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
>
> SECOND CALL:
>
> SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>
> I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
>
>
>
> COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
>
> If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose evidence to
> back his demands,
>
> POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>
> If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list novaromatribunalis
at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
>
>
> Curate ut valete
>
>
>
> --
>
> M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTEN SIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- ----
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55182 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Twelve tables old Latin
P. Memmius Albucius Laenati Complutensi omnibusque s.d.

Let us remember that the 12 tables laws have been issued in 451-450
BC.
For people living at Cicero and Caesar time, the language used in
these tables is quite as archaïc than medieval languages for us.

>SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO

In classic latin, this two first sentences would give :

"Si in ius vocar(/-b)is, ito. Si non is, testem opus erit. (Si non
est testis) igitur ei capiendum est."

One of the difficulty with Latin, is that it may pass from "you"
to "he" more simply than our modern languages. The "vocat" is "he",
the "ito" is an imperative ("go") so a "you", and the second sentence
comes back to "he".


Valete Consulari Praetori et omnes,



P. Memmius Albucius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Laenas
>
> Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain that
this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim Tabularum,
>
> SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>
> If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he doesn't go,
a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
>
> COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
>
> They shall plead together in person
>
> POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>
> If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge
the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
>
> Cura ut valeas
>
> M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re:
IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR]]
>
>
> Salve Praetor,
>
> Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?
>
> Vale,
>
> Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> <complutensis@> wrote:
> >
> > Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
> >
> > SECOND CALL:
> >
> > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >
> > I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
> >
> >
> >
> > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> >
> > If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose
evidence to
> > back his demands,
> >
> > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> >
> > If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list
novaromatribunalis
> at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
> >
> >
> > Curate ut valete
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> > Senator
> > Prætor Hispaniæ
> > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> > NOVA ROMA
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55183 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: RES: [Nova-Roma] Coins
Salvete
 
I am going to purchase some coins too, and I am also interested in the first issue, if someone has to resell them...
 
Valete
 
TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Quaestor
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae
Interpres Linguae Lusitanicae
Scriba Censoris KFBM
tagenialis@...
 


De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de Neil (L. Salix)
Enviada em: terça-feira, 19 de fevereiro de 2008 15:08
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Coins

Salvete,
 
I received a bunch of coins form Harpax yesterday. They're great quality and very nice to look at. I would highly recommend anyone who hasn't already purchased some to do so right away.
 
I was also wondering if there are any of the first batch of coins available to buy.
 
 
Valete
 
L. Salix Cicero

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55184 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: PASSPORTS
Salve,
I agree with Modianus on a membership certificate, great idea.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:57:12 -0500
"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
> Salvete:
>
> No offense, but I think it is a terrible idea. We have people (mostly in
> Africa) who apply to join Nova Roma for the sole reason of getting a
> passport and leaving the country they live in for a better life. We have no
> substantial land in which people can emigrate. Additionally, just because
> someone is a citizen of Nova Roma doesn't mean they are automatically
> welcome at my home.
>
> A membership certificate, I think that might be doable -- but only for
> Assidui citizens.
>
> Valete;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> Censor
>
> On Feb 18, 2008 8:09 PM, Igor Tasevski <igor388@...> wrote:
>
>> Salvete
>>
>> I think that we the citizens of Nova Roma who some day we like to
>> establish our territory like country, i think to develop now a passports of
>> Nova Roma to all of the citizens.With those passports we can travell
>> anywhere where are our people are,the people who can offer to us a
>> accomodation and things like that.
>> Don't you think is a good idea.
>>
>> Valete
>>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55185 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Re: [Nova-Roma] Twelve tables old Latin
A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio C. Popillio Laenati quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

P. Memmius Albucius Laenati Complutensi omnibusque s.d.

Let us remember that the 12 tables laws have been issued in 451-450
BC.
For people living at Cicero and Caesar time, the language used in
these tables is quite as archaïc than medieval languages for us.


    ATS:  Indeed.  So, too, is a good bit of the language used in religious rituals.  

>SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO

In classic latin, this two first sentences would give :

"Si in ius vocar(/-b)is, ito. Si non is, testem opus erit. (Si non
est testis) igitur ei capiendum est."

    ATS:  Methinks that vocat is still third persons singular, present tense, indicative active even in archaic Latin:  if he (i.e., someone) summons [you] to court.  Ito is the future imperative singular, the very favorite verbal mode of Cato in dé Agrí Culturá, but may be either second or third person.  As Cordus has noted, the future imperative is normally used in legal contexts rather than the present imperative or the subjunctive.  Likewise, capito is future imperative singular.  As for antestamino, the Lewis and Short unabridged Latin dictionary cites this fragment as reading antestator, though the Oxford Latin Dictionary cites a fragment of Lex XII as reading antestamino.  Both are from antestor, antestari, meaning to call to witness...though they look suspiciously like forms of antesto, antestari, to excel.  Antestator is the future imperative of this word.  The ending –mino is an archaic form of the second person present passive  imperative (classical:  -miní); antestor is a deponent verb, meaning that it has passive forms, but an active meaning.  Peroranto is the third person plural of the future imperative of peroro, perorare, to argue a case, to plead; to wind a case up; and addicito is the future singular imperative of addicere, to sentence, condemn, doom (also:  to assign, to award; surrender; be propitious [of sacred fowl]).  The future imperative has both second and third person forms, which typically are indistinguishable in the singular; the present imperative has only the second person forms.  


One of the difficulty with Latin, is that it may pass from "you"
to "he" more simply than our modern languages. The "vocat" is "he",
the "ito" is an imperative ("go") so a "you", and the second sentence
comes back to "he".

    ATS:  We like to keep the students on their toes, switching numbers and persons...I shall comment on the translation posted by Complutensis separately, and later.

Valete Consulari Praetori et omnes,

P. Memmius Albucius

Vale, et valete.  



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Laenas
>
> Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain that
this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim Tabularum,
>
> SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>
> If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he doesn't go,
a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
>
> COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
>
> They shall plead together in person
>  
>  POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>
> If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge
the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
>
> Cura ut valeas
>
> M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris  KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
>   To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>  
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
>   Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re:
IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR]]
>
>
>   Salve Praetor,
>
>   Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?
>
>   Vale,
>
>   Laenas
>
>   --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
>   <complutensis@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
>   >
>   > SECOND CALL:
>   >
>   > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>   >
>   > I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
>   >
>   > If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose
evidence to
>   > back his demands,
>   >
>   > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>   >
>   > If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list
novaromatribunalis
>   at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
>   >
>   >
>   > Curate ut valete
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --
>   >
>   > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
>   > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
>   > Senator
>   > Prætor Hispaniæ
>   > Scriba Censoris KFBM
>   > NOVA ROMA
>   >
>   > -------------------------------------------
>   >
>   > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
>   >
>

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55175;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55186 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-19
Subject: Re: Coins
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Neil \(L. Salix\)"
<salixcicero@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I received a bunch of coins form Harpax yesterday. They're great
quality and very nice to look at. I would highly recommend anyone who
hasn't already purchased some to do so right away.
>
> I was also wondering if there are any of the first batch of coins
available to buy.
>
>
> Valete
>
> L. Salix Cicero
>

Agricola Ciceroni sal.

Ago tibi gratias ob verbis tuis. (I thank you for your words).

The first coin, known informally as the "Declaratio", sold out long
ago. So the only way to get one is through a private sale. Maybe
someone will step forward and offer one or two for sale.

Optime vale in cura deorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55187 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Agricola Omnibus sal.

Indeed as P. Memmius says the language is archaic. You will find
similarly archaic forms in Cato's De Agri Cultura.

Wikipedia has a nice article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tables

In quoting the Lex Duodecim Tabularum we harken back to the very
beginning of our tradition of written laws. This is what we are all
about, going back to the source and making the world of the Romans
live again.

optime valete in cura deorum


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> P. Memmius Albucius Laenati Complutensi omnibusque s.d.
>
> Let us remember that the 12 tables laws have been issued in 451-450
> BC.
> For people living at Cicero and Caesar time, the language used in
> these tables is quite as archaïc than medieval languages for us.
>
> >SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
>
> In classic latin, this two first sentences would give :
>
> "Si in ius vocar(/-b)is, ito. Si non is, testem opus erit. (Si non
> est testis) igitur ei capiendum est."
>
> One of the difficulty with Latin, is that it may pass from "you"
> to "he" more simply than our modern languages. The "vocat" is "he",
> the "ito" is an imperative ("go") so a "you", and the second sentence
> comes back to "he".
>
>
> Valete Consulari Praetori et omnes,
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> <complutensis@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Laenas
> >
> > Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain that
> this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim Tabularum,
> >
> > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >
> > If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he doesn't go,
> a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
> >
> > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> >
> > They shall plead together in person
> >
> > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> >
> > If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge
> the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
> >
> > Cura ut valeas
> >
> > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> > Senator
> > Prætor Hispaniæ
> > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> > NOVA ROMA
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re:
> IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR]]
> >
> >
> > Salve Praetor,
> >
> > Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> > <complutensis@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
> > >
> > > SECOND CALL:
> > >
> > > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> > >
> > > I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> > >
> > > If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose
> evidence to
> > > back his demands,
> > >
> > > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> > >
> > > If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list
> novaromatribunalis
> > at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
> > >
> > >
> > > Curate ut valete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> > > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> > > Senator
> > > Prætor Hispaniæ
> > > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> > > NOVA ROMA
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55188 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: a. .d X Kal. Mart.: dies Parentales
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Iubeo bona anima esse.

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:
dies parentales.

"Divine Penates of our ancestors, to you I commend the good fortune
of my parents, and to you, Spiritual Father of our family, that you
safeguard them well. ~ Plautus Merc ator 834-5

"When Trojan glory was falling, Helenus, son of Priam, consoled a
weeping Aeneas, who was unsure of his future: 'Son of Venus, hold
fast in your heart my prophesies, while you live Troy will not wholly
perish! Before you fire and sword shall give and yield a path by
which you will bear away a rescued Pergama, until you find a foreign
land, kinder to you and Troy, than your fatherland. I see, even now,
a city, destined for the Trojan race, greater than any city of old,
or is now, or ever shall be. Other leaders will make her powerful,
through many centuries, until one born from your Julian line shall
make her mistress of the world. When on earth below his work is done,
the heavens above shall receive him for a celestial Palatine shall be
his goal. These things, remember well.' Helenus prophesied to Aeneas,
as Aeneas carried the Penates hither, and I rejoice that the walls of
Troy arise anew and Greek triumph is turned to Trojan gain." ~
Ovidius Naso, Metamorphoses 15.436-452


DIES PARENTALES

"Come, Dii Penates, come Apollo and Neptune and all You Gods, and by
Your powers may You mercifully turn aside this ill disease that
violently twists, scorches, and burns our City with fever." ~
Arnobius, Adversus Nationes 3.43

"Tombs also must be honoured. Placate the Spirits of your fathers,
and bring little gifts to the tombs you built. Their shades ask
little, piety is what they prefer over costly gifts: no greedy
deities haunt the Stygian depths. A tile wreathed round with
garlands offered is enough, a scattering of meal, and a few grains of
salt, and bread soaked in wine, and loose violets. Set them on a
brick left in the middle of the path. Not that I veto larger gifts,
but these please the shades: Add prayers and proper words to the
fixed fires. Aeneas brought this custom to your lands, just Latinus,
by a fitting promoter of piety." ~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 2.633-644


From 13 Feb. through today Romans have been celebrating the dies
parentales. These are days on which they would walk in procession as
a family to visit deceased relatives and share in a feast with them.
Some tombs outside Rome have been found with shafts or pipes down
which libations of wine were poured and possibly food also
deposited. Placed at the tombs for the dead was water with which to
wash, salt and oil as basic needs, then grain, or bread, milk
libations, and honey, as staples of the Roman diet. For the most
part, the Roman diet was made up of dried fruit and vegetables, along
with the staples of bread and honey, and only occasionally some meat,
such as rabbit. Some of the earliest remains of Latin graves, at
Osteria dell'Osa, date to the ninth century. These graves form into
clusters with distinctly different deposits. One might even get an
impression that these contemporary grave sites offer an early
indication of gentes. In one cluster, the "Northern group"
(containing graves 135, 137, 138, 139) each have a bowl with three or
four ribs taken from a goat. This would represent the last meal
shared with the deceased, and not necessarily animal sacrifices being
made. There is any other remains or evidence to suggest animal
sacrifice. Next to the Northern grave cluster, in a separate cluster
dating to the ninth century as well, where only one, of twenty-eight
graves, had the femur of a stag to suggest that meat was offered to
any of the site's residents. The occasion of the dies parentales
was performed during the daylight hours and had the atmosphere of
family picnics. The tombs were decorated with wreathes of flowers, a
custom we keep today, and then at the end of the day, candles and
lamps would be placed on the tombs and light as people returned to
the City.

Plutarch, Roman Questions 75:

"Why did they (the Romans) not extinguish a lamp, but suffered it to
go out on its own? Did they reverence it as akin and closely related
to the inextinguishable and underlying fire, or it this also a
symbolic indication that we should not destroy nor do away with any
living thing, if it does us no harm, since fire is like a living
thing? For it needs sustenance, it moves of itself, and when it is
extinguished it gives out a sound as if it were being slain. Or does
the custom teach us that we should not destroy fire, water, or any
other necessity when we have enough and to spare, but should allow
those who have need of these things to be used by them, and should
leave them for others when we ourselves no longer have any need over
them?"


AUC 704 / 49 BCE: Pompey, at Canusium, writes to Cicero on 20 Feb.
inviting him to join his army.

"IF you are well, I am glad. I was pleased to read your letter; for I
recognized your old gallantry still in defending the public safety.
The consuls have joined my army in Apulia. I strongly urge you, in
the name of your unique and unbroken zeal for the service of the
state, to join us also, that by our united counsels we may support
and aid the violated Republic. My opinion is that you should travel
by the Appian road, and come with all speed to Brundisium." ~ A 8.11


Our thought for today comes from Epicurus, Vatican Saying 39

"Neither he who is always seeking material aid from his friends nor
he who never considers such aid is a true friend; for one engages in
petty trade, taking a favor instead of gratitude, and the other
deprives himself of hope for the future."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55189 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
Maior Agricolae Albucioque spd;
yes it is a fantastic and profound moment for our praetor to
be announcing these words; we Nova Romans have brought it back!

optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior


>
> Indeed as P. Memmius says the language is archaic. You will find
> similarly archaic forms in Cato's De Agri Cultura.
>
> Wikipedia has a nice article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tables
>
> In quoting the Lex Duodecim Tabularum we harken back to the very
> beginning of our tradition of written laws. This is what we are all
> about, going back to the source and making the world of the Romans
> live again.
>
> optime valete in cura deorum
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
> <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius Laenati Complutensi omnibusque s.d.
> >
> > Let us remember that the 12 tables laws have been issued in 451-
450
> > BC.
> > For people living at Cicero and Caesar time, the language used
in
> > these tables is quite as archaïc than medieval languages for us.
> >
> > >SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >
> > In classic latin, this two first sentences would give :
> >
> > "Si in ius vocar(/-b)is, ito. Si non is, testem opus erit. (Si
non
> > est testis) igitur ei capiendum est."
> >
> > One of the difficulty with Latin, is that it may pass from "you"
> > to "he" more simply than our modern languages. The "vocat"
is "he",
> > the "ito" is an imperative ("go") so a "you", and the second
sentence
> > comes back to "he".
> >
> >
> > Valete Consulari Praetori et omnes,
> >
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> > <complutensis@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Laenas
> > >
> > > Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain
that
> > this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim
Tabularum,
> > >
> > > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> > >
> > > If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he
doesn't go,
> > a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
> > >
> > > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> > >
> > > They shall plead together in person
> > >
> > > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> > >
> > > If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall
adjudge
> > the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
> > >
> > > Cura ut valeas
> > >
> > > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> > > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> > > Senator
> > > Prætor Hispaniæ
> > > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> > > NOVA ROMA
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re:
> > IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS
AUGUR]]
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Praetor,
> > >
> > > Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Laenas
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> > > <complutensis@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
> > > >
> > > > SECOND CALL:
> > > >
> > > > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> > > >
> > > > I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> > > >
> > > > If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose
> > evidence to
> > > > back his demands,
> > > >
> > > > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> > > >
> > > > If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list
> > novaromatribunalis
> > > at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Curate ut valete
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> > > > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> > > > Senator
> > > > Prætor Hispaniæ
> > > > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> > > > NOVA ROMA
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55190 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti

Ex officio Praetoris M. Curiatius Complutensis

DE IUDICIO K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS AUGUR SENTENTIA

Alter the Peticio Actionis of K. Fabius Buteo Modianus and after the issue of the Formula, I have posted several messages and calls in the following  mailing lists:

·         Mail List

·         Nova Roma Announce

·         NR Magistrates

·         Nova Roma Tribunalis

And I have sent the same messages and calls directly to Actor and Reus.

In the Formula I fixed as data of meeting for the trial the last Monday Feb. 18th.

When,  on Feb 18th ,  I opened the court I fixed that Actor and Reus or their advocated must be presents in the Nova Roma Tribunalis List on Feb 19th ante meridiem (Roma Time).

Only the Actor has reply my call.

L. Equitius Cincinnatus has decided not to appear before the Praetor court showing his disregard to the laws of Nova Roma, to the other Augurs, to the  iudices and to the court chaired by the Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis

Consecuently and according the Lex Duodecim Tabularum, Tabula II, I hereby declare:

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICO.

 

The Lex Duocedim Tabularum, Tabula I and II, says:

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO: (Is someone is called to go to the court, he is to go. I he does not go a witness should be called).  Actor and Reus were called, and they had the obligation to go to the court.

COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES: (They shall plead together in person) Both Actor and Reus must be presents in the court to speak. Only Actor was present.

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO: If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge the case, after noon, in favour of the one present.

Our Lex Salicia Iudiciaria is not complete; it seems predict only those cases that the parties, in good faith, go to the Praetor court. In cases like this, we should help ourselves going to the sources of the Roman Law and acting accordingly.

Therefore according the tradition and the Roman Lax, I, the Praetor ACTORI LITEM ADDICO and CODEMNO L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur for the charges explained by Actor in his Petitio Actinionis.

 

DE POENA:

According the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Sexta, the following penalties shall be inflicted upon the convicted Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus:

MULTA PECUNIARIA:  As the Actor claimed that he has removed from two list in September 2005, the Reus must paid a fine  to the treasury of Nova Roma for the amount of 68.00 US$. The Reus shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid. The fine was considered on basis of the annual tax, with the following formula: 4.00 US$ for 2005 (12.00/12x4), 12.50 US$ for 2006, 15.00 US$ for 2007 and 2.50 US$ for 2008 (15.00/12x2) and since two list are involved I consider each list as separate infraction therefore the result of the formula is doubling.

DECLARATIO PUBLICA: the convicted Reus shall publicly recognize the Actor’s intentio, in the following public fora: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com and NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com . The convicted Reus shall suffer inhabilitato until the declaration has made to the Praetor’s satisfaction. 

INHABILITATIO: the convicted Reus shall be disqualified from voting and holding magistracy, for one year (counted from the date of this sentence). He shall be removed of all priesthoods and titles and he will lose the agnomen Augur.

ITEM PLUS,

L. Equitius Cincinnatus showed cotempt for the Tribunal system by not answering the Praetores. That is worse offense than the crimes with wich the Actor charged him. The Reus refuses to respect the law and any authorities.  That places him in a state of rebellion. Contempt for the law, contempt for the tribunal system, contempt towards the authority of the Praetores.

Therefore COMDEMNO the Reus to the following additional penalty:

MULTA PECUNIARIA:  By right, under current law, would be justified to hand down a verdict of EXATIO, instead it the Reus must paid a fine to the treasury of Nova Roma for the amount of 300.00 US$, because we must establish the authority of our judicial system, and therefore we cannot tolerate anyone to remain a Citizen and not suffer severe penalty when he or she shows contempt to the officers of the law. The Reus shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.

Hereby I ask for help and cooperation of  Censores of Nova Roma to implement the poenas and to put a nota in the record of the Reus in the Album Civium with poenas and terms of this sentence.

 Given under my hands this 20th day of February 2761 from the founding of Roma, during the Consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius

-- 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55191 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Twelve tables old Latin
P. Memmius Albucius Scholasticae omnibusque s.d.

I let you precise your passionating development for our interesting
and masochist ! ;-) cives.

Just one precision for our cives: the future imperative singular
("ito", "capito") was specially used in legal texts (so, here in the
12 tables).

Vale bene et omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio C. Popillio Laenati
quiritibus,
> > sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius Laenati Complutensi omnibusque s.d.
> >
> > Let us remember that the 12 tables laws have been issued in 451-
450
> > BC.
> > For people living at Cicero and Caesar time, the language used in
> > these tables is quite as archaïc than medieval languages for us.
> >
> >
> > ATS: Indeed. So, too, is a good bit of the language used in
religious
> > rituals.
> >
> >> >SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >
> > In classic latin, this two first sentences would give :
> >
> > "Si in ius vocar(/-b)is, ito. Si non is, testem opus erit. (Si non
> > est testis) igitur ei capiendum est."
> >
> > ATS: Methinks that vocat is still third persons singular,
present tense,
> > indicative active even in archaic Latin: if he (i.e., someone)
summons [you]
> > to court. Ito is the future imperative singular, the very
favorite verbal
> > mode of Cato in dé Agrí Culturá, but may be either second or
third person. As
> > Cordus has noted, the future imperative is normally used in legal
contexts
> > rather than the present imperative or the subjunctive. Likewise,
capito is
> > future imperative singular. As for antestamino, the Lewis and
Short
> > unabridged Latin dictionary cites this fragment as reading
antestator, though
> > the Oxford Latin Dictionary cites a fragment of Lex XII as reading
> > antestamino. Both are from antestor, antestari, meaning to call
to
> > witness...though they look suspiciously like forms of antesto,
antestari, to
> > excel. Antestator is the future imperative of this word. The
ending ­mino is
> > an archaic form of the second person present passive imperative
(classical:
> > -miní); antestor is a deponent verb, meaning that it has passive
forms, but an
> > active meaning. Peroranto is the third person plural of the
future imperative
> > of peroro, perorare, to argue a case, to plead; to wind a case
up; and
> > addicito is the future singular imperative of addicere, to
sentence, condemn,
> > doom (also: to assign, to award; surrender; be propitious [of
sacred fowl]).
> > The future imperative has both second and third person forms,
which typically
> > are indistinguishable in the singular; the present imperative has
only the
> > second person forms.
> >
> >
> > One of the difficulty with Latin, is that it may pass from "you"
> > to "he" more simply than our modern languages. The "vocat"
is "he",
> > the "ito" is an imperative ("go") so a "you", and the second
sentence
> > comes back to "he".
> >
> > ATS: We like to keep the students on their toes, switching
numbers and
> > persons...I shall comment on the translation posted by
Complutensis
> > separately, and later.
> >
> > Valete Consulari Praetori et omnes,
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%
40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
> > <complutensis@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salve Laenas
> >> >
> >> > Sure, here are the tranlations, but first allow me to explain
that
> > this latin phrases are extracted from the Lex Duodecim Tabularum,
> >> >
> >> > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >> >
> >> > If someone is called to go to court, he is to go. If he
doesn't go,
> > a witness should be called. Only then should he be captured.
> >> >
> >> > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> >> >
> >> > They shall plead together in person
> >> >
> >> > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> >> >
> >> > If one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall
adjudge
> > the case, after noon, in favor of the one present ...
> >> >
> >> > Cura ut valeas
> >> >
> >> > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> >> > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> >> > Senator
> >> > Prætor Hispaniæ
> >> > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> >> > NOVA ROMA
> >> >
> >> > -------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas
> >> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%
40yahoogroups.com>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 6:07 PM
> >> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Novaromatribunalis] Re:
> > IUDICIO: K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS VS L. EQUITIUS CINCINNATUS
AUGUR]]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Salve Praetor,
> >> >
> >> > Could you please translate the Latin in this message for us?
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > Laenas
> >> >
> >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%
40yahoogroups.com> ,
> >> "M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> >> > <complutensis@> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus SPD
> >>> > >
> >>> > > SECOND CALL:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO. NI IT, ANTESTAMINO. IGITUR EM CAPITO
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I call to speak Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur,
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > If both, Actor and Reus, are presents: Actor may expose
> > evidence to
> >>> > > back his demands,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > If Reus do not came apud iudicem (=join the list
> > novaromatribunalis
> >> > at yahoo groups) "praesenti litem addicito".
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Curate ut valete
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > >
> >>> > > M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> >>> > > PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> >>> > > Senator
> >>> > > Prætor Hispaniæ
> >>> > > Scriba Censoris KFBM
> >>> > > NOVA ROMA
> >>> > >
> >>> > > -------------------------------------------
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >>> > >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55175;
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55192 From: A. Apollonius Cordus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar
A. Apolónius Dianae sal.

> I was wondering if anyone knew what tribe the Caesar family is from??

According to L. R. Taylor, ‘The Voting Districts Of The Roman Republic: The Thirty-Five Urban And Rural Tribes’ (American Academy In Rome, 1960), p. 272, the Júlií Caesárés were members of the tribus Fabia.




__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55193 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salvete Romans

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur has been a citizen of Nova Roma since
March 1st 1998.
That is a few weeks short of ten years of service to the res public.

Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur has served as Pontifex, Augur, Flamen
Maior ,
Censor, Consul, Proconsul , Senator, Lictor, Scribe and Consular Accensus.

He has allegedly broken the law by removing someone from a yahoo list over
two and a half years ago. The list in question was created by and has as the
listed owner only himself. Yahoo, Inc states he, as the owner has the ONLY
say in to who get to be on the list and who does not.

Under current and past Nova Roman law the Senate has the authority to create
and or designate the �official fora� of Nova Roma. Not once in Nova Roma�s
history has the Senate done so and more to the point no Consul has ever
asked that said list be created or so designated.

According to the Nova Roma Wiki and Nova Roman law the only �official� lists
are:

The "Main List"

A high-volume list, but right now it's the best way to get in touch with
your fellow Nova Romans, unless you're lucky enough to live in a place where
there's a local community.

The "Announcement" list

Contains official announcements; calls to vote, results of elections,
magisterial edicts, etc. If you still want to have an ear to the ground to
find out what's going on, but don't have the time to devote to a high-volume
list, this list would be perfect for you.

Most provinces also have mailing lists.

There are also dozens of specialized email lists for everything from the
Religio Romana (Roman religion) to Roman cooking.

If you were to click on the Religio Romana it would lead you to many things
about theReligio Romana but it would still not list an �official" list for
the CA as none has ever been created. It does list the following as an
official list for the Religio Romana but it is the only one listed.

The official mailing list for discussion of the Cultus Deorum in Nova Roma
is at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/

This is the only list named, official or unofficial , that deals with the
Cultus Deorum

Could that be because until just recently there were only two Augurs in Nova
Roma and they were not on speaking terms. Could this be the reason that
there is not and never has been an �official list for the CA?

No law in Nova Roma currently or in the past has ever made it a crime to
remove a person or persons from a yahoo list. Now we have a court case that
is imposing a fine and more for doing just that.

According to the Petitio Actionis sent to the Praetors by Caeso Fabius Buteo
Modianus, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur has committed a crime, in fact
three simply by removing him, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus from a Yahoo list
nearly two and a half years ago

But where is the crime? No law of Nova Roma makes this action a crime, and
no macro-national law makes it a crime. In fact the macro-national rules of
Yahoo, Inc called the Terms of service and the guidelines created to
supplement them is clear that only list owners have a say as o who get on a
list or stay on a list. Just as a reminder EVERY PERSON ON EVERY NOVA ROMAN
LIST, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, HAS AGREED TO BE BOUND BY THE YAHOO TOS.

In support of his charges that Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur has
committed a crime Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus states that

�As a pontifex and an augur I assert that I have a right to be on both of
these lists since these lists have had, and I attest still do, have an
official capacity within Nova Roma. They were used as official lists and
contain official debate and voting results.�

But they do not and never have had �official� status as the Senate is the
only body that can so designate a list and it surely can not do so to a list
that Yahoo, Inc states is a private list and is owned by it owner.

Further no provision of the Nova Roma Constitution nor any laws states or
even implies that �a pontifex and an augur� is entitled to membership on a
list that is unofficial or private.

Further the action that is the basis for three alleged crimes happened over
two and a half years ago and Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus has himself created
an additional CA list and he admits that the Marcus Cassius Julianus created
an official CP list over six years ago.

Just today Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus informed the Senate that he will be
asking the CA to designate this list as the official list of the Collegium
Augrum.

He could have done this a week ago , a month ago or two and a half years ago
but as I have said before some people want an issue to destroy their
perceived enemies not solutions to our problems.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRCollegiumAugurum/


Now we have a directed verdict before any evidence has been presented and a
reach back to Roman law because as the Praetor states

�Our Lex Salicia Iudiciaria is not complete; it seems predict only those
cases that the parties, in good faith, go to the Praetor court. In cases
like this, we should help ourselves going to the sources of the Roman Law
and acting accordingly.�

In other words a Nova Roman is not required by NOVA ROMAN law to go to
court. This is not the first time that a reus has not come to court. It
happend when I was Praetor. The peson in question did finally send someone
to represent him but he NEVER put one foot in court.

The Praetor is reaching back two thousand years for a law that has never
been adopted by any Comitia of Nova Roma. In addition is the appearance of
bias on the part of the Praetor who is a member of the staff of the actor in
this case, Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus. He should have recused
himself from taking part in the proceedings. He even signs his name noting
the relationship.

The Praetor then asks

�Hereby I ask for help and cooperation of Censores of Nova Roma to implement
the poenas and to put a nota in the record of the Reus in the Album Civium
with poenas and terms of this sentence�

One Censor is a party to the case as the Actor and if justice prevails in
Nova Roma then he will not do anything to implement this verdict.

Given the fact that it is not against macro-national or Nova Roman law to
remove a person from a Yahoo list that one owns and given that fact that the
Constitution of Nova Roma states in part that

�The right and obligation to remain subject to the civil rights and laws of
the countries in which they reside and/or hold citizenship, regardless of
their status as dual citizens of Nova Roma;�

And further states that

�The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right
to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such
communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the
State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably
moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility"

No where does the constitution give a citizen the right to membership on a
private Yahoo list as determined by Yahoo.

From Yahoo

From : Yahoo! Groups <egroups-feedback@...-inc.com> Reply-To : Yahoo!
Groups <egroups-feedback@...-inc.com> Sent : Monday, February 18, 2008
5:20 PM To : Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> Subject : Re: Groups -
Other (KMM117629033V73216L0KM)

"Hello Tim, Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Groups. Stephen, I am sorry. I
still am not sure what you are trying to ask, but I will try and answer. If
you have a list A (one Yahoo! Group, which anyone can join), and then you
create another list B (another Yahoo! Group, which has restricted
membership), you,

as the owner, are in control of your Groups and no one can force you to add
them to your Groups.

So, maybe the answer to the main question is that the owner of a Group is in
complete control, and can decide whom can join and not. I hope this answers
your question. If not, please let me know or if you have any further
questions or concerns. Thank you again for contacting Yahoo! Groups."

Regards, Eric

The constitution further states that

�No one shall suffer a penalty for an action which was not subject to a
penalty when the action was performed. If an action was subject to a penalty
when the action was performed but is no longer subject to any penalty, no
penalty shall be applied for that action�

Because at no time in Nova Roma history has it been made a crime to remove a
person from a public list let alone a private one.

Because I believe that his action is the result of two people who dislike or
even hate each other. and that simply creating a new list would have solved
any problems.

Wait the Actor did just that.

Because I believe that the Actor is using the tools of our judicial system
in order to obtain retribution for what he considers an affront to his
dignity and which has had no effect on his duties as an Augur given the
fact he has been conducting himself as one for the entire time he was off a
private Yahoo list.

Because I believe that the verdict in this case has been decided by an
individual Praetor who MAY be biased against the reus by virtue of his close
association with the actor as a member of his staff.

And finally because I firmly, completely and profoundly believe that this is
an application of an ex post facto law and is therefore contrary to the
Constitution of Nova Roma as amended by the Lex Equitia Galeria de legibus
ex post factis.

Therefore I will not help implement this sentence as requested by the
Praetor

�Hereby I ask for help and cooperation of Censores of Nova Roma to implement
the poenas and to put a nota in the record of the Reus in the Album Civium
with poenas and terms of this sentence�

The Censor�s office more than any other must agree before anything is done
in our names. I do not agree to the implementation as requested by the
Praetors. Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur will not suffer any more
assaults to his dignity from the office of the Censors.

He remains Senator, Pontifex, Augur, Flamen Maior, and Lictor

If anyone believes that I am in error then please feel free to take me to
court in January 2010 when my term as Censor ends. It is your right.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55194 From: Bryan Griffin Junior, born Michaelangelo Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Question about Roman Flags
Salve, Amici!

My memory about Roman flags are a little vague. Didn't one of the
Ancient Roman flags used to have a golden eagle with its head turned to
the left and the letters SPQR inscribed in the bottom? Was that the
flag of the Roman army? If not, what did that flag represent? Please,
jog this old man's memory. Gratias Ages.

Valete,

Publius Michaelangelus Mauro
Scribe from Cleveland, Ohio

FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT

P.S. Roma defeated Real Madrid in the UEFA Champions League Soccer
tournament back in 19 February in Rome. The score was 2-1!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55195 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salvete Quirites,
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Censor manipulates the facts and is making groundless accusations, although he tries to disguise them with some kind of conditionality.
It seems quite obvious to me that he didnÂ’t read the charges against Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, didnÂ’t follow the due process of law implemented by the Praetores... or else he did, but he decided to ignore the truth, and since he canÂ’t otherwise find any arguments to help his friend after his conviction, tries even to slander the judge, by means of a mean insinuation of bias.
The sentence against Cincinnatus was decided by both Praetores, and we are well aware of our duties as judges. The fact that we have been performing several duties in the Censorial Cohors, well before K. Fabius Buteo Modianus became a Censor, is in no way related to our judicial decisions.
I demand a public apology from Paulinus Censor in the same fora where he has been posting his slander against the PraetoresÂ’ Office.
 
Valete optime,
 


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55196 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Iulio Severo salutem dicit

If Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus had any respect for the law then he would have shown up to support his case.  He could have had Paulinus serve as his advocatus.  Instead, Cincinnatus showed contempt for the law and disregarded it.  He could have shown his respect for the law, but decided to show contempt.

Additionally, censores do not have imperium.  Praetores do have imperium.  Censor Paulinus, having been a praetor, should know the law.  Apparently he too has contempt for the law.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 2:42 PM, M•IVL•SEVERVS <marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:

Salvete Quirites,
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Censor manipulates the facts and is making groundless accusations, although he tries to disguise them with some kind of conditionality.
It seems quite obvious to me that he didn't read the charges against Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur, didn't follow the due process of law implemented by the Praetores... or else he did, but he decided to ignore the truth, and since he can't otherwise find any arguments to help his friend after his conviction, tries even to slander the judge, by means of a mean insinuation of bias.
The sentence against Cincinnatus was decided by both Praetores, and we are well aware of our duties as judges. The fact that we have been performing several duties in the Censorial Cohors, well before K. Fabius Buteo Modianus became a Censor, is in no way related to our judicial decisions.
I demand a public apology from Paulinus Censor in the same fora where he has been posting his slander against the Praetores' Office.
 
Valete optime,
 


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55197 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Praetor

I said the Praetor MAY have been biased. If he was not great. The fact is
that
he signed all the official posts with the statement that he serves on the
staff of the senior
Censor who was the actor in this case. That should be reason enough to give
anybody pause to question the proceeding.

In your deliberation you never once established that removing a person from
a yahoo list
is illegal under Nova Roman law. If the underlining action is not a crime
then Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur can not be guilty of any other
crime that allegedly flows from said action.

Can you name one Nova Roman law that address list ownership and who can and
can not be on them? Can you name the law that made the list in question an
�official� list of Nova Roma. Can you provide the date when the Senate made
it so?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55198 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

Yes I was a Praetor and that is why I believe that this current 'case" is a
vendetta and not
a search for the truth and certainly not a search for justice. This month
the target is Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur next month it might be
Cassius or me.

While serving as Praetor and as Consul I was always told that even with
Imperium I could not tell even a Censors scribe what to do. I know I tried.

I will not do as the Praetors have "requested" and the
law and constitution does not give them the power or authority to compel me
to obey.

I may have been persuadable but I will not be commanded.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55199 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

The senate does not have absolute control over the religious institutions of Nova Roma, per our constitution.  As the only (at the time) augur it would logically follow that the list created was for official business -- and its name CollegiumAugurum only strengthens this claim.  Additionally, as Flamen Martialis he was the senior most member of the Collegium Pontificum and it would also logically follow that a list created by him and named CollegiumPontificum would be for use by the Collegium Pontificum.

I understand you are trying to protect your friend.  However, your friend is and was in contempt of the law.  He disregarded the COLLEGIAL nature of the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum.

He further showed contempt for the praetores by disregarding their authority and ignoring their imperium. 

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
Senior Censor

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salve Praetor

I said the Praetor MAY have been biased. If he was not great. The fact is
that
he signed all the official posts with the statement  that he serves on the
staff of the senior
Censor who was the actor in this case. That  should be reason enough to give
anybody pause to question the proceeding.

In your deliberation you never once established  that removing a person from
a yahoo list
is illegal under Nova Roman law. If the underlining action is not a crime
then  Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur  can not be guilty of any other
crime that allegedly flows from said action.

Can you name one Nova Roman law that address list ownership and who can and
can not be on them? Can you name the law that made the list in question an
"official" list of Nova Roma. Can you provide the date when the Senate made
it so?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55200 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Ludi Lupercalensis / Lupercales - Participant Thanks
Salvete!
 
<<First, and most important: Thank you to our Aediles and all the assistants and scribae who made these games possible. A great deal of work goes into producing each Ludi. It is very easy to forget about this when the games "run" (pun intended) as smoothly as the "Lupercales". The same careful preparations must be made, even if only half the factions and a few owners enter the Ludi. Gratias agemus!>>
 
I could not have said it any better, Silvana! Job well done all the way around!
I give thanks to the Gods and Goddesses of Nova Roma and of these Ludi, who granted such wonderful good fortune to our Factio Veneta, not the least of which is Iuno!
 
<<From the stands, I cannot tell who the winner is, much less the
second or third places
.>>
 
Neither could I! I was on my feet the entire race, which was very exciting with its nail-biting conclusion!
Rutlilus will be a better sprinter thanks to the experience he received in this Ludi. As for Celera - what can I say? He surpassed all expectations. It was with great pride that I bestowed the laurel wreath upon my victorious Celera, who gave such honor to Iuno and brought such honor to our Factio Veneta.
Rutilus,
another day,
another race;
Celera,
don't spend all the money
in one place!
 
Looking forward to the next Ludi (and perhaps some chariot races? Okay, my sprinters did not hear that!)
Go Blues!
 
Valete bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Domina Venetae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55201 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Maior Galerio Paulino spd;

as someone who is censor and willfully ignorant of the state cultus
deorum I will explain it to you:

the College of Augurs must operate as a college to give religious
responses when the Senate requests it.


This is how the College of Augurs operated during the Republic.
Without the College of Augurs the state cannot function; the State
cultus deorum is neglected.

You are a 6 year civis, a magistrate, Censor. There is no excuse for
your continuing ignorance. I have made up a book list to help all
cives. Read it.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum


If we KNOWINGLY and willingly neglect our state cultus, well I don't
like to use the term 'impiety' as it is extremely serious.. but we are
treading there. It is not funny and I suggest you shut up until you
are better informed.
M. Hortensia Maior

> Can you name one Nova Roman law that address list ownership and who
can and
> can not be on them? Can you name the law that made the list in
question an
> ?official? list of Nova Roma. Can you provide the date when the
Senate made
> it so?
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Censor
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55202 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

You are right the Senate does not have "absolute control over the religious
institutions of
Nova Roma". Tthe Senate does have the legal athority to establish which
lists are
the "public fora" of Nova Roma. That legal athority would be found in the
Lex Octavia de sermone.

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Octavia_de_sermone_%28Nova_Roma%29

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55203 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided that this private list must have been for official business and you've decided to tell someone that their private list has to be used by the Collegium Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no right to decide who should or shouldn't be on his private list.
 
And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in your little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be stripped of his office and fined.
 
If the law of Nova Roma says that an owner of a private list has no control over who's on it, then I want no part of Nova Roma, and if there is no such law, then why are you trying impose your views on the citizens - that's not a republic - that's a dictatorship
 
Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55204 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Merula,

Flavia Lucilla Merula writes:

> Can I get this clear

You can. Yes.

During the January meeting of the Senate, a number of mailing lists
were designated by Senatus Consultum as being of official interest to
the Senate. One of them was the CollegiumAugurium mailing list. The
complete list can be found in Item VII of the Senate voting report
posted at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1289

Senator L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur voted in that Senate meeting, so
he was certainly aware of the issue. He was one of the four senators
to vote against the Senatus Consultum.

Following the Senate vote, several senators attempted to subscribe to
the CollegiumAugurium list. None of these were approved, in
contradiction of the Senatus Consultum.

Furthermore, G. Fabius Buteo Modianus is also an augur and has been
denied membership in that mailing list for a number of years.
Exercising his right to seek redress he filed a petitio actionis with
the praetors. The other party to the lawsuit chose to ignore it.
Because the other party failed to appear the praetors found for the
plaintiff.

That's what's been going on. I would personally have preferred to see
it go otherwise. I do not like seeing this happen to Cincinnatus, the
man who brought me into Nova Roma. But it has most certainly been
done according to both the letter and the spirit of our laws.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55205 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
 
The list was official, as it did have official business on it and was used for official business.  This is not some "private list," but rather the picture is being painted that was a private list.  The list was and is an official list.  I own the senate list, does it reasonably follow that I can do with it what I please?  Absolutely not.
 
Vale;
 
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
.


Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided that this private list must have been for official business and you've decided to tell someone that their private list has to be used by the Collegium Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no right to decide who should or shouldn't be on his private list.
 
And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in your little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be stripped of his office and fined.
 
If the law of Nova Roma says that an owner of a private list has no control over who's on it, then I want no part of Nova Roma, and if there is no such law, then why are you trying impose your views on the citizens - that's not a republic - that's a dictatorship
 
Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55206 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salue Flavia,

This shouldn't be Nova Roma. If I understand this correctly, not only
was there no legal basis for Modianus' lawsuit, but the praetores also
overstepped Nova Roman law by punishing the reus according to ancient
laws, not current ones, defying precedent as well.

Not only that! That's not all! But having been accused by an eminent
citizen of disregarding the law, and how does the praetor react?
Without answering a single charge, not once defending himself, but
instead avoiding them altogether and charging the accuser of slander.
I find that unbecoming of an elected magistrate, regardless if he's
right or wrong. If he's right, let him prove it so.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Kirsteen Wright"
<kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided that
> this private list must have been for official business and you've
decided to
> tell someone that their private list has to be used by the Collegium
> Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no right to decide who
> should or shouldn't be on his private list.
>
> And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in
your
> little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be stripped
of his
> office and fined.
>
> If the law of Nova Roma says that an owner of a private list has no
control
> over who's on it, then I want no part of Nova Roma, and if there is
no such
> law, then why are you trying impose your views on the citizens -
that's not
> a republic - that's a dictatorship
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55207 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Poplicola Hortensiae:

The ancient Roman college of augurs never operated "online". Moreover,
if the priests wanted a college for the augurs, they would have
created one in the name of Nova Roma.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Galerio Paulino spd;
>
> as someone who is censor and willfully ignorant of the state cultus
> deorum I will explain it to you:
>
> the College of Augurs must operate as a college to give religious
> responses when the Senate requests it.
>
>
> This is how the College of Augurs operated during the Republic.
> Without the College of Augurs the state cannot function; the State
> cultus deorum is neglected.
>
> You are a 6 year civis, a magistrate, Censor. There is no excuse for
> your continuing ignorance. I have made up a book list to help all
> cives. Read it.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
>
>
> If we KNOWINGLY and willingly neglect our state cultus, well I don't
> like to use the term 'impiety' as it is extremely serious.. but we are
> treading there. It is not funny and I suggest you shut up until you
> are better informed.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> > Can you name one Nova Roman law that address list ownership and who
> can and
> > can not be on them? Can you name the law that made the list in
> question an
> > ?official? list of Nova Roma. Can you provide the date when the
> Senate made
> > it so?
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Censor
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55208 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

"I own the senate list, does it reasonably follow that I can do
with it what I please? Absolutely not."

But you did as you pleased with that list as our recent discussion
on the Senate list shows.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus






>From: "David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0500
>
>Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
>
>The list was official, as it did have official business on it and was used
>for official business. This is not some "private list," but rather the
>picture is being painted that was a private list. The list was and is an
>official list. I own the senate list, does it reasonably follow that I can
>do with it what I please? Absolutely not.
>
>Vale;
>
>Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Kirsteen Wright <
>kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> > .
> >
> >
> >
>
> Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided that
>this private list must have been for official business and you've decided
>to
>tell someone that their private list has to be used by the Collegium
>Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no right to decide who
>should or shouldn't be on his private list.
>
>And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in your
>little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be stripped of his
>office and fined.
>
>If the law of Nova Roma says that an owner of a private list has no control
>over who's on it, then I want no part of Nova Roma, and if there is no such
>law, then why are you trying impose your views on the citizens - that's not
>a republic - that's a dictatorship
>
>Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55209 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve M. Hortensia Maior

As usual you are your charming self. And as usual my questions are ignored
by you
so that you may launch your ad hominem attack.

I know enough about the state cultus decorum to know that we have had two
Augur working for a number of years and whenever a Consul or other
magistrate has asked
for assistance it has been given freely. That goes for both Caeso Fabius
Buteo Modianus and Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur both of whom I
relied on during my year as Consul.

As far as I know the Senate, outside of a Consuls request to an individual
Augur, has never asked the College of Augurs for any �official� anything.
Given the fact that anybody who has been paying attention knows that the two
Augurs dislike each other it is not surprising.

Are you contending that for two and a half years Nova Roma has done
everything wrong
because these two individuals would not swap e-mails?

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55210 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve, Flavia Lucilla Merula.

Kirsteen Wright wrote:
> Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided
> that this private list must have been for official business and
> you've decided to tell someone that their private list has to be used
> by the Collegium Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no
> right to decide who should or shouldn't be on his private list.

Private and private - the two lists in question, the CP and the CA, have
been used by the respective collegia for their official business -
discussions, votes, et cetera. This makes them less than private.

> And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in
> your little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be
> stripped of his office and fined.

A more fitting description would probably be a comparison with Roma
antiqua - the flamen Dialis being denied entrance to the temple of
Jupiter since the "guy with the keys" didn't feel like letting him in.

If discussions of an official nature are to regularly take place in a
dedicated forum, is it wholly unnatural to declare that forum an
official one?

Please don't try to make this issue appear trivial - it is not.

If you and some friends, citizens or not, have a list where you discuss
matters, novaroman or not, as friends or private citizens, that is none
of Nova Romas business. However, if a list is created for official
business of Nova Roma, the list itself is also under Nova Roman
jurisdiction, insofar as our legislation is concerned.

This does not include lists a magistrate maintain to organize his
assistants, nor even groups of magistrates. However, remember that the
pertinent cases concern collegia - gatherings of priests mandated by our
constitution. In a way, the lists can be said to have been created BY
the constitution - and thus implicitly fall under its authority.

This was confirmed, as pointed out by Censorius (?) Gnaeus Equitius
Marinus, by the senate, of which the owners of both lists are members.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55211 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Flavia,
 
Yes but you've mised one point: this all happened two and a half years ago... Now that Modianus is a Censor and has more friends than he used to, he's making a fuss.
Vale,
Diana
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Can I get this clear - without any law to back it up you've decided that this private list must have been for official business and you've decided to tell someone that their private list has to be used by the Collegium Pontificum and you've decided that the owner has no right to decide who should or shouldn't be on his private list.
 
And can I also get it clear that when said list owner didn't join in your little game - you take it upon yourself to say he should be stripped of his office and fined.
 
If the law of Nova Roma says that an owner of a private list has no control over who's on it, then I want no part of Nova Roma, and if there is no such law, then why are you trying impose your views on the citizens - that's not a republic - that's a dictatorship
 
Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55212 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Quintus Valerius Poplicola Cn. Equitio Marino SPD:

The Senatus Consultum is actually illegal under macronational law. No
private business can force someone to give them something privately
owned by someone else.

Also, there is no legal precedent or law in Nova Roma that Severus
cited. He merely used ancient Roman law.

I find both of these actions to be done in a very shady manner.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Merula,
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula writes:
>
> > Can I get this clear
>
> You can. Yes.
>
> During the January meeting of the Senate, a number of mailing lists
> were designated by Senatus Consultum as being of official interest to
> the Senate. One of them was the CollegiumAugurium mailing list. The
> complete list can be found in Item VII of the Senate voting report
> posted at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1289
>
> Senator L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur voted in that Senate meeting, so
> he was certainly aware of the issue. He was one of the four senators
> to vote against the Senatus Consultum.
>
> Following the Senate vote, several senators attempted to subscribe to
> the CollegiumAugurium list. None of these were approved, in
> contradiction of the Senatus Consultum.
>
> Furthermore, G. Fabius Buteo Modianus is also an augur and has been
> denied membership in that mailing list for a number of years.
> Exercising his right to seek redress he filed a petitio actionis with
> the praetors. The other party to the lawsuit chose to ignore it.
> Because the other party failed to appear the praetors found for the
> plaintiff.
>
> That's what's been going on. I would personally have preferred to see
> it go otherwise. I do not like seeing this happen to Cincinnatus, the
> man who brought me into Nova Roma. But it has most certainly been
> done according to both the letter and the spirit of our laws.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55213 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Poplicola,

Your mind's already made up. Don't let me trouble you with information.

But for the rest of the people reading this, I'll allow as how I've
been (and remain) owner of a number of Nova Roma lists where official
business was conducted. I'm sure I could have deleted those lists and
claimed the protection of macronational law in doing so, but it would
have been a serious offense against the republic for me to do so.
That's what almost happened to the original NovaRoma mailing list when
Vedius shut it down years ago, though fortunately Octavius was able to
archive it before all the posts went away.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

qvalerius <catullus.poeta@...> writes:

> Quintus Valerius Poplicola Cn. Equitio Marino SPD:
>
> The Senatus Consultum is actually illegal under macronational law. No
> private business can force someone to give them something privately
> owned by someone else.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55214 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
Salve Merula,

During the January meeting of the Senate, a number of mailing lists
were designated by Senatus Consultum as being of official interest to
the Senate.  One of them was the CollegiumAugurium mailing list.  The
complete list can be found in Item VII of the Senate voting report
posted at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1289
 
Unfortunately, I can't access this. Yahoo keeps saying I need to sign up for web access but when I do I get straight back to the 'you need to sign up page'. So I'm still trying to get this clear. When the list was originally created, who was it created for. I'm assuming it wouldn't have been open to everyone but rather only to those the owner wanted on it regardless of what was or was not discussed on it.
 
The Senate then designates it as being of official interest despite, I gather, the owner of the list voting against this. Does this mean the Senate can then dictate who sould or should not gain access to the list and what gives them this right. sorry to keep asking questions but, as I said, I can't access the link.
 
thank you
 
Flavia Lucilla Merula
 
 


 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55215 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Praetor M. Curiatius Galeri Pauline et omnes civibus SPD
 
 
Salve Pauline
 
in your message there are several serious accusations against me as Praetor,

dixisti> No law in Nova Roma currently or in the past has ever made it a crime to remove a person or persons from a yahoo list.
 
If is not a crime "to remove a person from yahoo list"  why Equitius Cincinnatus does not answering to my call by himself or by advocatus to defend himself?
 
The only possible answer is that Equitius Cincinnatus  despises judicial system of Nova Roma and the laws of Nova Roma.
 
 
dixisti> Now we have a directed verdict before any evidence has been presented and a reach back to Roman law because as the Praetor states......
 

He had the opportunity to speak and did not want to do it
 
 
dixisti> The Praetor is reaching back two thousand years for a law that has never been adopted by any Comitia of Nova Roma.
 
NOVA ROMA
Dedicated to the restoration of classical Roman religion, culture and virtues
 
This is the logo in the Main Page of our web: wath we can restore? wath we must restore? Only the titles? Or the magistracies? We cannot restore the best of the Ancient Roma which is the Roman Law?  If you are  a Nova Roman citizen you are  a roman citizen,  if you respect the ancient gods and the old virtues you have to respect the old law.
 
dixisti> In addition is the appearance of bias on the part of the Praetor who is a member of the staff of the actor in this case, Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus. He should have recused himself from taking part in the proceedings. He even signs his name noting the relationship.
 
And "in addition" you do not remember that I, as Praetor, am only the chairman of the court, the iudices were 10 cives of Nova Roma:
 
1.. Gaius Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus,
2.. Gaius Equitius Cato,
3.. Aulus Apollonius Cordus,
4.. Franciscus Apulus Caesar,
5. Marcus Iulius Perusianus
6.. Titus Arminius Genialis,
7.. Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus,
8.. Pompeia Minucia Strabo
9.. Equestria Iunia Laeca
10.. Marcus Lucretius Agricola
 
There is also the apparence of bias on part of them? Are you accusing them of bias?
 
The work of the roman court was fixed more than 2000 years ago: actor and reus must go to to the court "ante meridiem"   and actor and reus must be presents in the court and if one of the parties does not appear the magistrate shall adjudge the case, after noon, in favour of the one present.
 
What should I have done? Wait until the Reus appears in the Court?
This would be a great lack of respect especially for citizens who have come to the court to work as judges.


dixisti> He remains Senator,  Pontifex, Augur, Flamen Maior, and Lictor
 
You do not remember that you have one of the high magistracies of Nova Roma, the Censura, with potestas and auctoritas, but without imperium.You do not remember that a man with imperium had absolute authority to apply the law within the scope of his magistracy and only could be vetoed or overruled by a magistrate having  imperium maius (a higher degree of imperium) or, as most republican magistratures were multiple (though not quite collegial since each could act on his own), by the equal power of his colleague.
 
You do not remember that I have imperium.
 
If Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus wishes to appeal my sentence he can do, in an appropriate form and appearing himself before a court. Meanwhile, he will not be  Pontifex, Augur, Flamen Maior, and Lictor.
 
Please note that I did not say anything about his status as Senator,  maintain him in this status is the prerogative of Censores who are the guardians of public morality.

dixisti> If anyone believes that I am in error then please feel free to take me to court in January 2010 when my term as Censor ends. It is your right.
 
Yes I believe and I am sure that you are in error, because you have not imperium and you cannot veto my sententia.

Vale et valete
 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55216 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Merula,

Flavia Lucilla Merula writes:

[...]
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1289
>>
>
> Unfortunately, I can't access this.

Here's the pertinent item:

ITEM VII

The Senate lends its support to the Consul to issue an edictum
instructing list owners to approve without exception the requests of
all Senatores and Senatrices to subscribe to any and all lists that
are recognized as necessary in the administration of Nova Roma.
These lists shall include:

the "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com",
the "novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com",
the "NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata@yahoogroups.com",
the web-based message board linked to www.novaroma.org,
the "newroman@yahoogroups.com"
the "religioromana@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRCollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumPontificum@yahoogroups.com"
the "CollegiumAugurum@yahoogroups.com"
the "NRPriesthood@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenateNR@yahoogroups.com"
the "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com" and all other Senate lists,
the "NRWiki@yahoogroups.com",
the "CONVENTVS_GVBERNATORVM@yahoogroups.com",
the "NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com".

Where Senatores or Senatrices are not entitled to subscribe to a
specific list by virtue of a magisterial or priestly office, list
owners shall nonetheless be instructed to subscribe members of the
Senate upon request, although the list owners may under such
circumstances subscribe members of the Senate as moderated observers.

Not to be included in the edictum shall be any private lists of a
semi-public nature, such as lists established by magistrates to hold
discussions with their advisors and appointees.

VTI ROGAS 23
ABSTINEO 3
ANTIQUO 4


> So I'm still trying to get this clear. When the list was originally
> created, who was it created for.

It was created for the College of Augurs of Nova Roma.

> I'm assuming it wouldn't have been open to
> everyone but rather only to those the owner wanted on it regardless of what
> was or was not discussed on it.

You're right that it's a restricted list. Like the list for the
Collegium Pontificum, it's open for members of the college to read and
post to, and for interested Senators to read. Or at least it's
supposed to be. The Collegium Pontificum list has been made available
to several senators including myself for some time now.

> The Senate then designates it as being of official interest despite, I
> gather, the owner of the list voting against this.

Yes, that is correct.

> Does this mean the Senate
> can then dictate who sould or should not gain access to the list

If the list exists for the conduct of official Nova Roma business,
yes. The Senate can demand access to the list and its archives.

> and what gives them this right.

The Constitution of Nova Roma, where it says that the Senate is the
supreme policy making body.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55217 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve mi Poplicola

Relatively new as you are, I suppose that you have not seen the
Constitution yet? Article VI that created a Collegium Augurum to act
as a college, not as a private club.

You may have missed - or were you so dependent upon the
misrepresentations of Censor Galerius - that the Constitution also
provides the senatus consulti and edicta consulares are law in Nova
Roma. And you probably missed, as Galerius repeatedly did while he was
Praetor, what the leges Saliciae say in regard to such matters where
precedent is not available to Praetores.

Lex Salicia iudicaria, Pars Secunda, VI.B. Iurisprudentia: "in those
cases where the laws do not present an explicit treatment of a certain
situation, a praetor shall create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence)
applicable to all similar situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression
of the Imperium of the praetor, and it has the same legislative power
as a praetorial edictum. Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia
shall always supersede iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter
previous iurisprudentia through an official edictum whenever common
sense dictates that such a course of action is necessary."

The two lists in question were not started as private lists, no more
than the mainlist is a private list; no matter what Cincinnatus says
about it now, no matter what Galerius says now. They were created to
serve as lists upon which the augures could meet on the
CollegiumAugurum list as the Collegium Augurum, and the
CollegiumPontificum list was started for all of the members of the
Collegium Pontificium, not just for those whom Cincinnatus chose. Both
lists were in fact used by the respective collegia for these
purposes. Each contain archives of the Collegium Pontificum and the
Collegium Augurum respectively. These archives, under Nova Roma law,
belong to Nova Roma.

Yahoo law does not apply here to the internal affairs of Nova Roma.
Nova Roma created the Collegia Pontificum and Augurum by the adoption
of the Constitution. Nova Roma law determines who are members of
those collegia. Cincinnatus was entrusted with creation of the lists
needed by the collegia to function and administer the institutions of
the religio Romana in Nova Roma. The Senate advised, and the Consules
issued edicta to execute their policy, which only the Senate has
authority to determine under to Nova Roma's Constitution. The Senate
did determine that the lists in question, named in the SC of January
and thus also in the edicta Consulares, are administrative lists of
Nova Roma, and thus subject to policy decisions of the Senate and
subject to the edicta of consules and praetores alike.

Cincinnatus wants to be selective as for whom he applies the law and
policiy.

Galerius, who has always had difficulty comprehending the law when he
reads it, is trying to be selective in application of the law.

He has made accusations against the Praetores, and Galerius would do
best to apologize for those comments, or he could indeed be prosecuted
at the end of his term of office.

And you, mi Poplicola, would do better if you became informed before
you wade into these issues.


Vale optime
M Moravius Piscinus
Consul






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "qvalerius" <catullus.poeta@...>
wrote:
>
> Poplicola Hortensiae:
>
> The ancient Roman college of augurs never operated "online".
Moreover,
> if the priests wanted a college for the augurs, they would have
> created one in the name of Nova Roma.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55218 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Slave Praetor et salvete Omnes

>>The only possible answer is that Equitius Cincinnatus despises
judicial system of Nova Roma and the laws of Nova Roma.<<


I would not say that, especially not the "only possible answer".

My firend, L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur was a most serious Nova
Roman. During an early Roman Days he slept in a tent to see what the
ancient times were like while the others enjoyed the hotel and TV. I
know he was a very serious practitioner of the Religio and his duties
as Augur.

Those who met him in person sometimes remarked that he was much more
personable and relaxed compared to his demeanor on the lists. He
told me that was because he believed his offices of Senator, Pontiff,
Augur and indeed, citizen, deserved to be portrayed with the utmost
dignity.

As a serious person, one could say Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Argur
was uncompromising - some might use the word stubborn instead. L.
Equitius Cincinnatus Augur chose to leave Nova Roma after 10 years of
work rather than dignify a complaint he felt was motivated by a lack
of personal character. In my opinion, my friend does not despise
Nova Roma or it's laws or judicial system, but he certainly does not
have much respect for the actor in this case.

For my part, L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur will be sorely missed.

Vale et valete,

C. Popillius Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55219 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
I also think that whole thing was stupid. It makes us all look foolish. Someone squabbling about not getting in a mailing list 2 years ago! It's idiotic. If I were reus I wouldn't have "shown up" either, as if one could actually show up to something, the "court" is just another mailing list!
 
But how about this? all of these problems could be solved if Nova Roma would have php based forums, where all the sub-forums would automatically be "official" and the control of the forums would be handled by the censores instead of various citizens. Is anyone going to implement this? probably not, I guess the whole inefficient mailing list and being dependant on Yahoo Groups is much easier.
 
The whole case should've been thrown out from the beginning. I really hope there aren't any outsiders checking out this archive, because I find it quite embarrassing.
 
Also I think if anything needs to be handled by a nova roman court, it should be done in person. Perhaps that would make someone think twice before submitting some inane petitio because they have a grudge.
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55220 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,

 

It is today one year and a day since I have joined Nova Roma. I wonder if I would had saw this discussion the day after I have present my application to citizenship if I would stay time enough to know enough of Nova Roma and become a Quiritis Novae Romae in spirit and hearth. Shouldn’t a situation like this to be discussed before in the Magistrate list and only if agreement failed between the magistrates involved brought to the public forum?

 

Secondly I don’t know L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and I agree that his (lack of) actions in obeying a S. C. and a call to the Tribunal are very grave. The spirit of the Res Publica Romana is that nobody is above the law!

But Censor Tiberius Galerius Paul inus raised one important issue, that nobody by Nova Roma law can be judge by an action made before it was considered illegal. So I can’t see how the Reus can be sentence by any action taken before the S. C. Afterwards it is a totally different question.

 

The action of Praetor M. Curiatius Complutens by adopting the ancient laws of Roma Antiqua are the right and Roman thing to do where our laws don’t specify what to do. Also it is within his Imperium to fill the holes of our laws and he did it in the best way possible, by going to the laws of Roma Antiqua. But in my opinion it should have happen before the court started, and not after. It is a little difficult to me to understand how can someone sentence in this way by not presented himself to the court when nobody knew before handed out would be the consequences.

 

Well these are my 2 cents concerning the debate that certainly will make the number of messages in the public forum to raise like crazy.

 

Di vos incolumes custodiant.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55221 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
Salve Corneli Felix,

the same topic has come up in the magistrates list. There I proposed
to make "historically correct" membership plaques like those that
were given to legionaries upon discharge.
Consul Sabinus was so kind as to provide a link to a page with a
picture and all the information about them:
http://www.legionxxiv.org/diploma160ad.htm

I'm pretty sure I can make some like this and sell them under $24,
even though I can't say at this moment how much under $24, because
I'd have to make one and calculate the production cost.
I will be able to say that when I'm back in Hungary, hopefully in
March.

Optime vale,
L. Livia Plauta

> >
> Salve lucius_vitellius_triarius
> I would think the cost of the membership fee to have quality ID card
> and Certificate as part of it, would make said membership fee 350%
of
> what it is now(making it like $52 USD)
> and would make a lot more work for two officers and there staff( and
> they work as it is 100's of hours a year now with-out a paycheck.
> a " nice quality ID card and Certificate " costs a lot of money and
> the one's from the VR web site is not in my mind " nice quality "
>
> I have two other cards from them from two other org I am part of and
> they cost over $24 each.
>
> I think we should look into it. I just think that we will want very
> high quality ID cards and Certificates ,and that will cost more
then
> i think people are willing to pay
>
> vale
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55222 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Crasse

dixisti> ........... But in my opinion it should have happen before the
court started, and not after. It is a little difficult to me to understand
how can someone sentence in this way by not presented himself to the court
when nobody knew before handed out would be the consequences........


In many countries not responding to the call of a judge can lead to jail
sentence......

Macro or micro laws? We have not jails in Nova Roma........

You can re-read my calls.

Cura ut valeas

MCC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55223 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salvete;
let me explain. L. Equitius is Nova Roma's longest augur. He formed
the yahoo list where the college of augurs meets. The augurs can act
individually but they also need to make a group vote when the Senate
consults them.
Now I am sure Cincinnatus is very devoted but he refuses
to acknowledge the other augur, Modianus. If the Senate wonders if
there is a bad sign, they consult the College of Augurs.

If Cincinnatus doesn't let Modianus on the list or join him in a new
one, or refuses to work with him, we have and had! a non-functioning
augural college, which is terrible.

That's what this is about: working together. If Cincinnatus wants to
be a sacerdos, swell or any other kind of religious official that can
work alone, that's okay. But augurs like pontiffs give their opinion
in a college. There is no way around it.

have I done a better job of explaining? This is about how the
state cultus functions,nothing to do with our private ones. We re
the priests there and do as we please.
M. Hortensia Maior
>
> It is today one year and a day since I have joined Nova Roma. I
wonder if I would had saw this discussion the day after I have
present my application to citizenship if I would stay time enough to
know enough of Nova Roma and become a Quiritis Novae Romae in spirit
and hearth. Shouldn¢t a situation like this to be discussed before in
the Magistrate list and only if agreement failed between the
magistrates involved brought to the public forum?
>
> Secondly I don¢t know L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and I agree
that his (lack of) actions in obeying a S. C. and a call to the
Tribunal are very grave. The spirit of the Res Publica Romana is that
nobody is above the law!
> But Censor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus raised one important issue,
that nobody by Nova Roma law can be judge by an action made before it
was considered illegal. So I can¢t see how the Reus can be sentence
by any action taken before the S. C. Afterwards it is a totally
different question.
>
> The action of Praetor M. Curiatius Complutens by adopting the
ancient laws of Roma Antiqua are the right and Roman thing to do
where our laws don¢t specify what to do. Also it is within his
Imperium to fill the holes of our laws and he did it in the best way
possible, by going to the laws of Roma Antiqua. But in my opinion it
should have happen before the court started, and not after. It is a
little difficult to me to understand how can someone sentence in this
way by not presented himself to the court when nobody knew before
handed out would be the consequences.
>
> Well these are my 2 cents concerning the debate that certainly will
make the number of messages in the public forum to raise like crazy.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55224 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Salve Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis

"Yes I believe and I am sure that you are in error,
because you have not imperium and you cannot veto my sententia"

I never used the word veto as a Censor can only veto the actions of his
colleague
and the staff of the Censors office.

I was answering your request to implement the sententia with a resounding
no.

I thought you should know the reasons I would not help to implement this
ruling
and why I would prevent those I can veto from doing so as well.

I should have used a different word then bias in my first post when you were
perhaps
only led astray. For that you do have my apology.

Praetor it is my humble opinion that the judicial system of Nova Roma is
being used
to further a vendetta and to settle political scores. Evidence of that is
that within hours
of you issuing your sententia the actor announces that he will proceed with
the CA adopting another list as the �official CA list. Something that he
could have done anytime
In the last 2 and � years. Something that I an others had suggested all
along.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor




>From: M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:51:07 +0100
>
>Praetor M. Curiatius Galeri Pauline et omnes civibus SPD
>
>
>Salve Pauline
>
>in your message there are several serious accusations against me as
>Praetor,
>
>dixisti> No law in Nova Roma currently or in the past has ever made it a
>crime to remove a person or persons from a yahoo list.
>
>If is not a crime "to remove a person from yahoo list" why Equitius
>Cincinnatus does not answering to my call by himself or by advocatus to
>defend himself?
>
>The only possible answer is that Equitius Cincinnatus despises judicial
>system of Nova Roma and the laws of Nova Roma.
>
>
>dixisti> Now we have a directed verdict before any evidence has been
>presented and a reach back to Roman law because as the Praetor states......
>
>
>
>He had the opportunity to speak and did not want to do it
>
>
>dixisti> The Praetor is reaching back two thousand years for a law that has
>never been adopted by any Comitia of Nova Roma.
>
>NOVA ROMA
>Dedicated to the restoration of classical Roman religion, culture and
>virtues
>
>This is the logo in the Main Page of our web: wath we can restore? wath we
>must restore? Only the titles? Or the magistracies? We cannot restore the
>best of the Ancient Roma which is the Roman Law? If you are a Nova Roman
>citizen you are a roman citizen, if you respect the ancient gods and the
>old virtues you have to respect the old law.
>
>dixisti> In addition is the appearance of bias on the part of the Praetor
>who is a member of the staff of the actor in this case, Censor Caeso Fabius
>Buteo Modianus. He should have recused himself from taking part in the
>proceedings. He even signs his name noting the relationship.
>
>And "in addition" you do not remember that I, as Praetor, am only the
>chairman of the court, the iudices were 10 cives of Nova Roma:
>
>1.. Gaius Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus,
>2.. Gaius Equitius Cato,
>3.. Aulus Apollonius Cordus,
>4.. Franciscus Apulus Caesar,
>5. Marcus Iulius Perusianus
>6.. Titus Arminius Genialis,
>7.. Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus,
>8.. Pompeia Minucia Strabo
>9.. Equestria Iunia Laeca
>10.. Marcus Lucretius Agricola
>
>There is also the apparence of bias on part of them? Are you accusing them
>of bias?
>
>The work of the roman court was fixed more than 2000 years ago: actor and
>reus must go to to the court "ante meridiem" and actor and reus must be
>presents in the court and if one of the parties does not appear the
>magistrate shall adjudge the case, after noon, in favour of the one
>present.
>
>What should I have done? Wait until the Reus appears in the Court?
>This would be a great lack of respect especially for citizens who have come
>to the court to work as judges.
>
>
>dixisti> He remains Senator, Pontifex, Augur, Flamen Maior, and Lictor
>
>You do not remember that you have one of the high magistracies of Nova
>Roma, the Censura, with potestas and auctoritas, but without imperium.You
>do not remember that a man with imperium had absolute authority to apply
>the law within the scope of his magistracy and only could be vetoed or
>overruled by a magistrate having imperium maius (a higher degree of
>imperium) or, as most republican magistratures were multiple (though not
>quite collegial since each could act on his own), by the equal power of his
>colleague.
>
>You do not remember that I have imperium.
>
>If Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus wishes to appeal my sentence he can do, in
>an appropriate form and appearing himself before a court. Meanwhile, he
>will not be Pontifex, Augur, Flamen Maior, and Lictor.
>
>Please note that I did not say anything about his status as Senator,
>maintain him in this status is the prerogative of Censores who are the
>guardians of public morality.
>
>dixisti> If anyone believes that I am in error then please feel free to
>take me to court in January 2010 when my term as Censor ends. It is your
>right.
>
>Yes I believe and I am sure that you are in error, because you have not
>imperium and you cannot veto my sententia.
>
>Vale et valete
>
>M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55225 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
C. Aemilius Crassus Praetori M. Curiatio Cumplutensi SPD,

"In many countries not responding to the call of a judge can lead to jail
sentence......"

Yes, but that case is also covered by a law pre existing the fault of not responding to the call of a judge and that it is my point.

"Macro or micro laws? We have not jails in Nova Roma........"

I don’t care if it is Macro or Micro laws, in Nova Roma I’m ruled by the Nova Roma laws.

"You can re-read my calls."

But I did before I have written my previous message I did re read your call and no where I saw stated in English that the non response to Praetor call would lead to the case been decided in favour of the other part. As I have said before I applaud your decision to back your action in the laws of Roma Antiqua where ours fails but it should be stated before the transgression and not before. Not being so it casts shadows of proceedings problems over a right decision.

Di te incolumem custodiant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55226 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Salve Maior,

 

I’m not sure you were replying to me but since it was my message that was bellow this one let me point out that the questions I have raised were:

1- As wrong as it was the actions of the Reus , and I agree they were since it put his own dignity above the state, only become illegal after the S. C. of this January.

2-The fact nobody knew that the failing to present himself to the Tribunal would lead to the case being decided in favour of the other part. It is a problem concerning the proceedings of this Tribunal and much serious than the ones you used to stop an action against yourself not long ago.

 

In Roma Antiqua the lex was regina and it also should be in Nova Roma.

 

Vale,

 

C. Aemilius Crassus.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----
From: Maior <rory12001@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:36:24 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Salvete;
let me explain. L. Equitius is Nova Roma's longest augur. He formed
the yahoo list where the college of augurs meets. The augurs can act
individually but they also need to make a group vote when the Senate
consults them.
Now I am sure Cincinnatus is very devoted but he refuses
to acknowledge the other augur, Modianus. If the Senate wonders if
there is a bad sign, they consult the College of Augurs.

If Cincinnatus doesn't let Modianus on the list or join him in a new
one, or refuses to work with him, we have and had! a non-functioning
augural college, which is terrible.

That's what this is about: working together. If Cincinnatus wants to
be a sacerdos, swell or any other kind of religious official that can
work alone, that's okay. But augurs like pontiffs give their opinion
in a college. There is no way around it.

have I done a better job of explaining? This is about how the
state cultus functions,nothing to do with our private ones. We re
the priests there and do as we please.
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> It is today one year and a day since I have joined Nova Roma. I
wonder if I would had saw this discussion the day after I have
present my application to citizenship if I would stay time enough to
know enough of Nova Roma and become a Quiritis Novae Romae in spirit
and hearth. Shouldn¢t a situation like this to be discussed before in
the Magistrate list and only if agreement failed between the
magistrates involved brought to the public forum?
>
> Secondly I don¢t know L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and I agree
that his (lack of) actions in obeying a S. C. and a call to the
Tribunal are very grave. The spirit of the Res Publica Romana is that
nobody is above the law!
> But Censor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus raised one important issue,
that nobody by Nova Roma law can be judge by an action made before it
was considered illegal. So I can¢t see how the Reus can be sentence
by any action taken before the S. C. Afterwards it is a totally
different question.
>
> The action of Praetor M. Curiatius Complutens by adopting the
ancient laws of Roma Antiqua are the right and Roman thing to do
where our laws don¢t specify what to do. Also it is within his
Imperium to fill the holes of our laws and he did it in the best way
possible, by going to the laws of Roma Antiqua. But in my opinion it
should have happen before the court started, and not after. It is a
little difficult to me to understand how can someone sentence in this
way by not presented himself to the court when nobody knew before
handed out would be the consequences.
>
> Well these are my 2 cents concerning the debate that certainly will
make the number of messages in the public forum to raise like crazy.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
------------
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
____________ __
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55227 From: qvalerius Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
I don't appreciate the slander, Marine. I do not know Cincinnatus nor
ever had anything to do with him before, so I do not know why you're
picking on me in that regard.

All I do is call what I see, and I see very shady legal work going on.

-------------------------------

Quintus Valerius Poplicola M. Moravio Piscino SPD:

Mi Piscine, I have read the constitution, I do know the contents
thereof. I also have read the relevant passages.

I also will cite the Constitution as directly contradicting the
actions taken by the praetor, chiefly:

"a. No one shall suffer a penalty for an action which was not subject
to a penalty when the action was performed."

If and only if Cincinnatus started the list under the auspices of Nova
Roma, i.e. not by a later Senatus Consultum, can he be prosecuted for
it. If the Senate said, "We need to make the Yahoo list official" and
Cincinnatus replied "I will do it for you", then I will agree that he
did is technically prosecutable, since it was never his to begin with,
but Nova Roma's, and in Nova Roma's protection. If he created it,
regardless of his intentions, and later Nova Roma co-opted it from
him, then Nova Roma does not have the legal right under American law
to do this (Yahoo is based in America).

Quod scribis: "These archives, under Nova Roma law,
belong to Nova Roma."

Ah, but if I understand correctly, this is your lawsuit, not
Modianus'. Therefore it is totally inapplicable. Furthermore, by the
ToS issued by Yahoo upon signing up to any groups, Nova Roman law here
is inapplicable as well. No macronational country can force over the
archives in Cincinnatus' list, but they can if Cincinnatus took money
entrusted to him. But in a similar situation, if Cincinnatus opened up
a bank account and Nova Roma deposited funds into it, there must be a
contract that the funds belong to Nova Roma, else it's in Cincinnatus'
possession and therefore under American law his. But he's free to
close the bank account at any time. But if he opens it up in the name
of Nova Roma, then he does not have the legal standing to close the
account.

This is basic American law, and Nova Roma, lest anyone suffer from
grand delusions, is an incorporated company in America, Maine,
specifically. If we had real sovereignty, this wouldn't be an issue,
but we don't. Therefore Nova Roma is obliged under the laws of America
first and Nova Roma second.

Quod scribis:

Lex Salicia iudicaria, Pars Secunda, VI.B. Iurisprudentia: "in those
cases where the laws do not present an explicit treatment of a certain
situation, a praetor shall create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence)
applicable to all similar situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression
of the Imperium of the praetor, and it has the same legislative power
as a praetorial edictum. Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia
shall always supersede iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter
previous iurisprudentia through an official edictum whenever common
sense dictates that such a course of action is necessary."

If I understand Galerius, he did create precedence, and Complutens did
not create an edict before hand, like they did in Ancient Roma.

By all means, consul, if I am not informed correctly, then please
correct my misunderstanding. But I am not satisfied with the
explanations given so far. I find the whole mess very shady indeed.

e romae amore.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Poplicola,
>
> Your mind's already made up. Don't let me trouble you with information.
>
> But for the rest of the people reading this, I'll allow as how I've
> been (and remain) owner of a number of Nova Roma lists where official
> business was conducted. I'm sure I could have deleted those lists and
> claimed the protection of macronational law in doing so, but it would
> have been a serious offense against the republic for me to do so.
> That's what almost happened to the original NovaRoma mailing list when
> Vedius shut it down years ago, though fortunately Octavius was able to
> archive it before all the posts went away.
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> qvalerius <catullus.poeta@...> writes:
>
> > Quintus Valerius Poplicola Cn. Equitio Marino SPD:
> >
> > The Senatus Consultum is actually illegal under macronational law. No
> > private business can force someone to give them something privately
> > owned by someone else.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55228 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
It seems that an auger creating a yahoo list for augers doesn't automatically make it official. If that were true, then both auger lists are official. Besides that, the only thing an auger has to do to "meet" is just e-mail the other one without the middleman of a yahoo list.
 
This is such a non-issue.
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Maior
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Salvete;
let me explain. L. Equitius is Nova Roma's longest augur. He formed
the yahoo list where the college of augurs meets.

.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55229 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Marcella:
I don't know the history of the list. Good point about email and I
agree with you.

L. Equitius Cincinnatus won't recognize or meet with K. Fabius Buteo
Modianus, the other augur that's where the dysfunction comes in
*sigh*.

This year in September I heard about a prodigy, a 7-armed child was
born in India. I was quite concerned about what this meant for Nova
Roma. Now I wasn't in the Senate then. But normally I would report
this to the Senate. Then the Senate would discuss it. Then if they
decided it was a prodigy, they would ask the College of Augurs what
it meant.

The College of Augurs meets and discusses various historical
examples of prodigies and then they decide and vote. Let's say
Modianus and Piscinus think it is benign and Cincinnatus thinks it's
a bad sign. Well the majority carries and the College reports to the
Senate
'In the opinion of the College it is a good sign'. Well the Senate
is happy and that's that. If it's a bad sign the Senate has to
decide what to do; maybe a big piaculum...etc

Now another prodigy might come up. Or maybe a Magistrate sees
flashes of lightening while performing a ceremony. You need to
consult the college: they are the divination experts!

I hope I've explained the big issues clearly. It's important for
Nova Roma to have a functioning College of Augurs.
bene valete
M. Hortensia Maior



>
> It seems that an auger creating a yahoo list for augers doesn't
automatically make it official. If that were true, then both auger
lists are official. Besides that, the only thing an auger has to do
to "meet" is just e-mail the other one without the middleman of a
yahoo list.
>
> This is such a non-issue.
>
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:36 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
>
>
> Salvete;
> let me explain. L. Equitius is Nova Roma's longest augur. He
formed
> the yahoo list where the college of augurs meets.
> .
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55230 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

"I never used the word veto as a Censor can only veto the actions of his colleague and the staff of the Censors office."

Show me in our constitution where a censor has the authority to veto his colleague.  Several actions, such as notae, require a collegial decision by the censores.  But there is no mention of the pronouncing of intercessio in the listing for censores in the Constitution, unless I have overlooked the law.  If there is a lex that addresses this please be so kind as to point it out, because I am unaware of it.

"Evidence of that is that  within hours of you issuing  your sententia the actor announces that he will proceed with the CA adopting another list as the "official CA list. Something that he could have done anytime In the last 2 and ½ years."

I created NRCollegiumAugurum on Jan 3, 2006 at 10:30 pm.  However, this COULD not have been declared an official Collegium Augurum list?  Why you ask?  Because the only other augur refused to join the list and therefore we where not functioning in a collegial fashion. I invited Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus to join the list and here is an excerpt from the management section of the group:
Feb 16, 2006 7:18 am vergil96@... Invited to join by athanasiosofspfd <tau.athanasios@...> via web

I attempted to avoid this lawsuit.  I made an effort to make the Collegium Augurum a functional entity.  You would have known this is you had asked me, and I TOLD you all of this on the phone more than once.

Now that there is another augur, Marcus Moravius Piscinus, I can convene the Collegium Augurum and decretum can be issued.  The Collegium Augurum has been dysfunctional for many many years.  Now, there will be efforts to make it functional and collegial as it is supposed to be.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
Salve Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis

"Yes I believe and I am sure that you are in error,
because you have not imperium and you cannot veto my sententia"

I never used the word veto as a Censor can only veto the actions of his
colleague
and the staff of the Censors office.

I was answering your request to implement the sententia with a resounding
no.

I thought you should know the  reasons  I would not help to implement this
ruling
and why I would prevent those I can veto from doing so as well.

I should have used a different word then bias in my first post when you were
perhaps
only led astray.  For that you do have my apology.

Praetor it is my humble opinion that the judicial system of Nova Roma is
being used
to further a vendetta and to settle political scores.  Evidence of that is
that  within hours
of you issuing  your sententia the actor announces that he will proceed with
the CA adopting another list as the "official CA list. Something that he
could have done anytime
In the last 2 and ½ years.  Something that I an others had suggested all
along.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55231 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

I explained myself in the senate, and changed the action and received your "thank you."  Do you wish for that debate/conflict to spill over onto the main list?  Perhaps the tribunes should relay the discussion.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus 

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

"I own the senate list, does it reasonably follow that I can do
with it what I please? Absolutely not."

But you did as you pleased with that list as our recent discussion
on the Senate list shows.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55232 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve,
 
When this situation first started I had no clue what was going on, since it started before I became a citizen I believe, but now that I have a chance to read what everyone is posting I think I caught up. If indeed this happened more than two years ago, why is a case being brought against Cincinnatus now?? Poplicola makes an excellent point in this post. If the decision to make the list apart of Nova Roma after the fact the list was created then there is no basis for prosecution. It is just basic common law in many places and it would be unfair to charge someone of an offense after said "offense" was made illegal. So forgive me and many of us if the situation to us does seem a bit shady.
 
And what of Cincinnatus?? Is he still a citizen or has he retired to private life?? If he retired to private life maybe that is why he is not coming forward in his defense.
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus

----- Original Message ----
From: qvalerius <catullus.poeta@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:30:47 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

I don't appreciate the slander, Marine. I do not know Cincinnatus nor
ever had anything to do with him before, so I do not know why you're
picking on me in that regard.

All I do is call what I see, and I see very shady legal work going on.

------------ --------- --------- -

Quintus Valerius Poplicola M. Moravio Piscino SPD:

Mi Piscine, I have read the constitution, I do know the contents
thereof. I also have read the relevant passages.

I also will cite the Constitution as directly contradicting the
actions taken by the praetor, chiefly:

"a. No one shall suffer a penalty for an action which was not subject
to a penalty when the action was performed."

If and only if Cincinnatus started the list under the auspices of Nova
Roma, i.e. not by a later Senatus Consultum, can he be prosecuted for
it. If the Senate said, "We need to make the Yahoo list official" and
Cincinnatus replied "I will do it for you", then I will agree that he
did is technically prosecutable, since it was never his to begin with,
but Nova Roma's, and in Nova Roma's protection. If he created it,
regardless of his intentions, and later Nova Roma co-opted it from
him, then Nova Roma does not have the legal right under American law
to do this (Yahoo is based in America).

Quod scribis: "These archives, under Nova Roma law,
belong to Nova Roma."

Ah, but if I understand correctly, this is your lawsuit, not
Modianus'. Therefore it is totally inapplicable. Furthermore, by the
ToS issued by Yahoo upon signing up to any groups, Nova Roman law here
is inapplicable as well. No macronational country can force over the
archives in Cincinnatus' list, but they can if Cincinnatus took money
entrusted to him. But in a similar situation, if Cincinnatus opened up
a bank account and Nova Roma deposited funds into it, there must be a
contract that the funds belong to Nova Roma, else it's in Cincinnatus'
possession and therefore under American law his. But he's free to
close the bank account at any time. But if he opens it up in the name
of Nova Roma, then he does not have the legal standing to close the
account.

This is basic American law, and Nova Roma, lest anyone suffer from
grand delusions, is an incorporated company in America, Maine,
specifically. If we had real sovereignty, this wouldn't be an issue,
but we don't. Therefore Nova Roma is obliged under the laws of America
first and Nova Roma second.

Quod scribis:

Lex Salicia iudicaria, Pars Secunda, VI.B. Iurisprudentia: "in those
cases where the laws do not present an explicit treatment of a certain
situation, a praetor shall create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence)
applicable to all similar situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression
of the Imperium of the praetor, and it has the same legislative power
as a praetorial edictum. Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia
shall always supersede iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter
previous iurisprudentia through an official edictum whenever common
sense dictates that such a course of action is necessary."

If I understand Galerius, he did create precedence, and Complutens did
not create an edict before hand, like they did in Ancient Roma.

By all means, consul, if I am not informed correctly, then please
correct my misunderstanding. But I am not satisfied with the
explanations given so far. I find the whole mess very shady indeed.

e romae amore.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Poplicola,
>
> Your
mind's already made up. Don't let me trouble you with information.
>
> But for the rest of the people reading this, I'll allow as how I've
> been (and remain) owner of a number of Nova Roma lists where official
> business was conducted. I'm sure I could have deleted those lists and
> claimed the protection of macronational law in doing so, but it would
> have been a serious offense against the republic for me to do so.
> That's what almost happened to the original NovaRoma mailing list when
> Vedius shut it down years ago, though fortunately Octavius was able to
> archive it before all the posts went away.
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> qvalerius <catullus.poeta@ ...> writes:
>
> > Quintus Valerius Poplicola Cn. Equitio Marino SPD:
> >
> > The Senatus Consultum is actually illegal under macronational law. No
> > private
business can force someone to give them something privately
> > owned by someone else.
>




Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55233 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

"Show me in our constitution where a censor has the authority to veto his
colleague."

On this point you are right.

(Modianus picks himself off the floor)

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus





>From: "David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:33:29 -0500
>
>Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit
>
>"I never used the word veto as a Censor can only veto the actions of his
>colleague and the staff of the Censors office."
>
>Show me in our constitution where a censor has the authority to veto his
>colleague. Several actions, such as notae, require a collegial decision by
>the censores. But there is no mention of the pronouncing of intercessio in
>the listing for censores in the Constitution, unless I have overlooked the
>law. If there is a lex that addresses this please be so kind as to point
>it
>out, because I am unaware of it.
>
>"Evidence of that is that within hours of you issuing your sententia the
>actor announces that he will proceed with the CA adopting another list as
>the "official CA list. Something that he could have done anytime In the
>last
>2 and � years."
>
>I created NRCollegiumAugurum on Jan 3, 2006 at 10:30 pm. However, this
>COULD not have been declared an official Collegium Augurum list? Why you
>ask? Because the only other augur refused to join the list and therefore
>we
>where not functioning in a collegial fashion. I invited Lucius Equitius
>Cincinnatus to join the list and here is an excerpt from the management
>section of the group:
>Feb 16, 2006 7:18 am vergil96@... Invited to join by
>athanasiosofspfd <tau.athanasios@...> via web
>I attempted to avoid this lawsuit. I made an effort to make the Collegium
>Augurum a functional entity. You would have known this is you had asked
>me,
>and I TOLD you all of this on the phone more than once.
>
>Now that there is another augur, Marcus Moravius Piscinus, I can convene
>the
>Collegium Augurum and decretum can be issued. The Collegium Augurum has
>been dysfunctional for many many years. Now, there will be efforts to make
>it functional and collegial as it is supposed to be.
>
>Vale;
>
>Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> > Salve Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis
> >
> > "Yes I believe and I am sure that you are in error,
> > because you have not imperium and you cannot veto my sententia"
> >
> > I never used the word veto as a Censor can only veto the actions of his
> > colleague
> > and the staff of the Censors office.
> >
> > I was answering your request to implement the sententia with a
>resounding
> > no.
> >
> > I thought you should know the reasons I would not help to implement
>this
> > ruling
> > and why I would prevent those I can veto from doing so as well.
> >
> > I should have used a different word then bias in my first post when you
> > were
> > perhaps
> > only led astray. For that you do have my apology.
> >
> > Praetor it is my humble opinion that the judicial system of Nova Roma is
> > being used
> > to further a vendetta and to settle political scores. Evidence of that
>is
> > that within hours
> > of you issuing your sententia the actor announces that he will proceed
> > with
> > the CA adopting another list as the "official CA list. Something that he
> > could have done anytime
> > In the last 2 and � years. Something that I an others had suggested all
> > along.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55234 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
-Salve Crasse;
sorryI was discussing the issue of religious law and how the
College of Augurs works so everyone can have an idea. That's the
area of expertise I'm doing research on.

About the trial. In my own case, the minute I got the complaint I
wrote to my friend A. Apollonius Cordus, who did a lot of research
on NR law and how a trial was conducted in Rome. And responded for
me. I didn't know what the penalty was, but not good to ignore the
praetor!
I actually don't know enough to have an opinion about any errors. I
have to ask Cordus:) I'll ask him to report back here on the ML. I
do feel for both praetors. It's a tough job to know Nova Roman law
and the law of Roma Antiqua.

bene vale
M. Hortensia Maior


>
> I?m not sure you were replying to me but since it was my message
that was bellow this one let me point out that the questions I have
raised were:
> 1- As wrong as it was the actions of the Reus, and I agree they
were since it put his own dignity above the state, only become
illegal after the S. C. of this January.
> 2-The fact nobody knew that the failing to present himself to the
Tribunal would lead to the case being decided in favour of the other
part. It is a problem concerning the proceedings of this Tribunal
and much serious than the ones you used to stop an action against
yourself not long ago.
>
> In Roma Antiqua the lex was regina and it also should be in Nova
Roma.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Maior <rory12001@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:36:24 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
>
> Salvete;
> let me explain. L. Equitius is Nova Roma's longest augur. He
formed
> the yahoo list where the college of augurs meets. The augurs can
act
> individually but they also need to make a group vote when the
Senate
> consults them.
> Now I am sure Cincinnatus is very devoted but he refuses
> to acknowledge the other augur, Modianus. If the Senate wonders if
> there is a bad sign, they consult the College of Augurs.
>
> If Cincinnatus doesn't let Modianus on the list or join him in a
new
> one, or refuses to work with him, we have and had! a non-
functioning
> augural college, which is terrible.
>
> That's what this is about: working together. If Cincinnatus wants
to
> be a sacerdos, swell or any other kind of religious official that
can
> work alone, that's okay. But augurs like pontiffs give their
opinion
> in a college. There is no way around it.
>
> have I done a better job of explaining? This is about how the
> state cultus functions,nothing to do with our private ones. We re
> the priests there and do as we please.
> M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > It is today one year and a day since I have joined Nova Roma. I
> wonder if I would had saw this discussion the day after I have
> present my application to citizenship if I would stay time enough
to
> know enough of Nova Roma and become a Quiritis Novae Romae in
spirit
> and hearth. Shouldn?t a situation like this to be discussed before
in
> the Magistrate list and only if agreement failed between the
> magistrates involved brought to the public forum?
> >
> > Secondly I don?t know L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and I agree
> that his (lack of) actions in obeying a S. C. and a call to the
> Tribunal are very grave. The spirit of the Res Publica Romana is
that
> nobody is above the law!
> > But Censor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus raised one important
issue,
> that nobody by Nova Roma law can be judge by an action made before
it
> was considered illegal. So I can?t see how the Reus can be
sentence
> by any action taken before the S. C. Afterwards it is a totally
> different question.
> >
> > The action of Praetor M. Curiatius Complutens by adopting the
> ancient laws of Roma Antiqua are the right and Roman thing to do
> where our laws don?t specify what to do. Also it is within his
> Imperium to fill the holes of our laws and he did it in the best
way
> possible, by going to the laws of Roma Antiqua. But in my opinion
it
> should have happen before the court started, and not after. It is
a
> little difficult to me to understand how can someone sentence in
this
> way by not presented himself to the court when nobody knew before
> handed out would be the consequences.
> >
> > Well these are my 2 cents concerning the debate that certainly
will
> make the number of messages in the public forum to raise like
crazy.
> >
> > Di vos incolumes custodiant.
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> ------------
> > C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> > DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> ------------
> >
> >
> >
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> ____________ __
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category=
shopping
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55235 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur

Salve Maior,

 
"sorryI was discussing the issue of religious law and how the
College of Augurs works so everyone can have an idea. That's the
area of expertise I'm doing research on."
 

No problem. That was the reason why I wasn’t sure you were replying to me.


"I actually don't know enough to have an opinion about any errors. I
have to ask Cordus:) I'll ask him to report back here on the ML."
 

I expect and hope that when things calm a little we may hear the opinion of Cordus on the matter. His opinions are usually so well sustained that even when I disagree with them I always learn something new about Roma.

 
" I  do feel for both praetors. It's a tough job to know Nova Roman law
and the law of Roma Antiqua."
 

I totally agree with you on that.


Vale optime bene,

 

C. Aemilius Crassus. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55236 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Moon Eclipse
C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,

I have just went outside the building to smoke (I know, a very nasty habit) and to my amazing noticed the moon was smaller then 6 hours ago.
Obliviously it is Moon Eclipse that I didn’t knew it was expected to happen tonight. By what I’m reading in the internet and if my hour calculations are correct it is probably at full eclipse right now over the American Continent, at least in Canada. So if you can don’t loose the show.

Di vos incolumes custodiant.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55237 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Salve Crasse,

Totality isn't until 10:20 EST, but yes, it's definitely well into
eclipse right now.

You can follow it on http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/lunar.html

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@...> writes:

> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,
>
> I have just went outside the building to smoke (I know, a very nasty
> habit) and to my amazing noticed the moon was smaller then 6 hours
> ago.
> Obliviously it is Moon Eclipse that I didn’t knew it was expected to
> happen tonight. By what I’m reading in the internet and if my hour
> calculations are correct it is probably at full eclipse right now
> over the American Continent, at least in Canada. So if you can don’t
> loose the show.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55238 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Salve,
 
I also had a chance to see the lunar eclipse and never miss a chance to view anything that happens in the great sky. In news reprts it says you will be also able to view Saturn and the bright star Regulus on both sides of the moon but unfortunately wasnt able to see it. I also had a chance to view Mars a few months back which was absolutley amazing. Enjoy the show!!!
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus 

----- Original Message ----
From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@...>
To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:24:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moon Eclipse

C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,

I have just went outside the building to smoke (I know, a very nasty habit) and to my amazing noticed the moon was smaller then 6 hours ago.
Obliviously it is Moon Eclipse that I didn’t knew it was expected to happen tonight. By what I’m reading in the internet and if my hour calculations are correct it is probably at full eclipse right now over the American Continent, at least in Canada. So if you can don’t loose the show.

Di vos incolumes custodiant.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping




Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55239 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Salvete Regule, Crasse, Marine;
thank you so much, I am running outside right now!
M. Hortensia Maior
>
> I also had a chance to see the lunar eclipse and never miss a
chance to view anything that happens in the great sky. In news
reprts it says you will be also able to view Saturn and the bright
star Regulus on both sides of the moon but unfortunately wasnt able
to see it. I also had a chance to view Mars a few months back which
was absolutley amazing. Enjoy the show!!!
>
> Lucius Iulius Regulus
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@...>
> To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:24:52 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moon Eclipse
>
> C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,
>
> I have just went outside the building to smoke (I know, a very
nasty habit) and to my amazing noticed the moon was smaller then 6
hours ago.
> Obliviously it is Moon Eclipse that I didn?t knew it was expected
to happen tonight. By what I?m reading in the internet and if my
hour calculations are correct it is probably at full eclipse right
now over the American Continent, at least in Canada. So if you can
don?t loose the show.
>
> Di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
> DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo.
com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?
category=shopping
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55240 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: Moon Eclipse
Salve,
 
With a little guidance I was able to spot Saturn and Regulus. Saturn looks absolutely amazing, you can see the rings of the planet quite distinctly if you have good binoculars or good quality telescope. If you have a chance take a look. It is well worth it.
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus

----- Original Message ----
From: Lucius Iulius Regulus <luciusjul25@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:38:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Moon Eclipse

Salve,
 
I also had a chance to see the lunar eclipse and never miss a chance to view anything that happens in the great sky. In news reprts it says you will be also able to view Saturn and the bright star Regulus on both sides of the moon but unfortunately wasnt able to see it. I also had a chance to view Mars a few months back which was absolutley amazing. Enjoy the show!!!
 
Lucius Iulius Regulus 

----- Original Message ----
From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus <septemtrionis@ yahoo.com>
To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:24:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Moon Eclipse

C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,

I have just went outside the building to smoke (I know, a very nasty habit) and to my amazing noticed the moon was smaller then 6 hours ago.
Obliviously it is Moon Eclipse that I didn’t knew it was expected to happen tonight. By what I’m reading in the internet and if my hour calculations are correct it is probably at full eclipse right now over the American Continent, at least in Canada. So if you can don’t loose the show.

Di vos incolumes custodiant.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping




Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55241 From: M. Octavius Gracchus Date: 2008-02-20
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Caligula Imperator,

> ITEM PLUS,
>
> L. Equitius Cincinnatus showed cotempt for the Tribunal system by not answering the Praetores.
> That is worse offense than the crimes with wich the Actor charged him.
> MULTA PECUNIARIA: ... must paid a fine to ... the amount of 300.00 US$

Wonderful! Not only are praetores now illegally removing priests, but we're now
seeing citizens charged and found guilty (without trial) of arbitrary made-up
offences!

(But I guess "ex post facto" is a modern concept that has no place here.)

Tribunes, why hasn't this gross abuse of power been vetoed yet?

- Octavius, privatus.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55242 From: Maior Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Gracche;
I wrote to A. Apollonius Cordus for him to come and discuss the
trial and legal process as I am not knowledgable.

On another point how would you have gotten L. Equitius Cincinnatus
to act collegially? I think poor Modianus just got worn out, he's
been trying to for years.
bene vale
M.Hortensia Maior


>
> Wonderful! Not only are praetores now illegally removing priests,
but we're now
> seeing citizens charged and found guilty (without trial) of
arbitrary made-up
> offences!
>
> (But I guess "ex post facto" is a modern concept that has no place
here.)
>
> Tribunes, why hasn't this gross abuse of power been vetoed yet?
>
> - Octavius, privatus.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Gracchus
> octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com
>
> -"Apes don't read philosophy."
> -"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
> you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central
message of
> Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London
Underground is
> not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them
up."
> -from "A Fish Called Wanda"
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55243 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: a. d. IX Kal. Mart.: Feralia
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Deus salvere vos iubet

Hodie est ante diem IX Kalendas Martias; haec dies fastus est: Feralia

For those of us who enjoyed last night's eclipse of the moon:

AUC 585 / 168 BCE: on the Eve of the Battle of Pydna

"After the completion of the camp''s fortifications, Gaius Sulpicius
Gallus, a military tribune of the second legion, who had been praetor
the year before, called the troops to an assembly, with the consul's
permission, and gave it out that no one should take it as a bad omen
that on the next night an eclipse of the moon would occur from the
second to the fourth hour of the night. This phenomenom, he said,
happened at fixed times in the order of Nature; and therefore it
could be foreknown and foretold. And so, just as they were not
surprised at the fact that the moon sometimes shone with its full
orb, sometimes, at its wane, with a narrow crescent – since the
risings and settings of the moon and the sun are regular occurrences –
they should not take it for a prodigy that the moon is obscured when
it is hidden by the earth's shadow. On the night before 21 June
[actually 4 September], when the moon was eclipsed at the time
stated, the wisdom of Gaius seemed to the Roman soldiers almost
godlike. The Macedonians took the eclipse as a baleful portent,
signifying the downfall of the monarchy and the nation: no soothsayer
could persuade them otherwise; and there was shouting and wailing in
the Macedonian camp until the moon emerged to give its accustomed
light". ~ Titus Livius 44.37.5-9


: FERALIA :

"The Feralia, from inferi, 'the dead below,' and ferre, 'to bear,'
because at this time 'they bear' (ferunt) meals to the tombs of those
for whom it is a duty to offer ancestor-worship there." ~ M.
Terrentius Varro, Linga Latinae 6,13

"This day they call the Feralia because they bear (ferunt) offerings
to the dead: the last day to propitiate the shades." ~ Ovidius Naso,
Fasti 2.569-570

"I scarcely believe it, but they say that ancestral spirits came
moaning from their tombs in the still of night, and misshapen
spirits, a bodiless throng, howled through the City streets, and
through the broad fields. Afterwards neglected honour was paid to the
tombs, and there was an end to the portents, and the funerals.
But while these rites are enacted, girls, don't marry: Let the pine
torches of marriage wait for purer days." ~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 2.549-
558

Two questions that religions seek to answer include "How did we get
here?" and "What happens to us once we are gone?" Both questions
relate to how a given religion explains the spiritual being that is
our individual essence.

Festus explained, "They named the Genius a God, for him a power to
whose lot it befell to have. According to Aufustius, 'The Genius is
a Son of the Gods and of human parents, from the parents who gave him
birth and therefore my Genius is so named because he bore me.'
Others put forward that the genius is the seat of a God, solely of
who bears it (Paul. Fest. P. 24, 16)."

In general terms, Manes are the spirits of the dead. Among them are
different categories of Manes. Lares are the friendly Manes of a
family. They are friends and relatives of a family, but mostly
deceased family members. Lemures are Manes who roam the earth
because they do not have a family to care for their rites. They roam
the land, as Ovid's little tale, hoping to find any who will provide
for them. The Larvae are a different sort, ill willed or evil Manes
as they are, who haunt ruins, abandoned places, and desolate places.
Spirits of the dead are offered beans, eggs, bread, roses, violets,
milk and honey, oil, and the blood of sheep at Feralia. Three times
each year (24 Aug, 5 Oct, 8 Nov) the underground shrine called a
mundus is opened to offer the Manes poppies and garlic, and woolen
dolls, called maniae. Maniae puppets were also hung over doorways of
Roman houses at Feralia to protect against ill intending Manes from
entering. Feralia is the last day to visit the tombs of one's
ancestors, and pay one's respects as they ought to one's own Lares.
But it is also an evening and a night on which to set out offerings
for the Lemures, for they, too, are due what is justly theirs.
Offerings for the Lemures must be left at outdoor shrines, or
preferably where one road dead-ends into another as a three-way
crossroads. There the offerings of food and staples are left on
pottery shards and broken crockery, never anything fancy, given their
sustenance and sent on their way.

Being divine in nature, the genius of a man, or the juno of a woman,
lives on after death of the body. This is an implicit belief of the
religio Romana, seen by how much of it regimen of sacrifices were
actually made for the dead, and how often they were invokved to
rites. Some Lares were believed to hold more divinity than others.
Such were the heroes; today we might instead call it a quality of
nobility, but it was something attached to the human soul. Those
possessed of a great genius, implicitly one with greater divinity,
rose, as in Cicero's "Dream of Scipio," to a greater height, to find
an abode in the heavens near to the home of the Gods. With Cicero,
and in Ovid's "Metamorphoses" as well, the abodes of the souls of
heroes were easily visible in the heavens, along the celestial Via
Sacra that we today call the Milky Way. Others thought that those
who were good and deserving, yet not heroes, found their abode
instead on the moon. But one had to be honored in order to travel
into the heavens, one needed worship or you could never attain to
your true position in the heavens. "Varro feared," wrote Augustinus
of Hippo, "that they would perish, not by hostile action, but through
neglect." Nevertheless, implicit in the practices of the religio
Romana is the belief in a life after death.

Also implicit in the religio Romana, since name was so attached to a
genius, is an idea of reincarnation. Tacitus, in describing the
rededication of the Capitolium speaks about how the Capitolium was
rededicated. but first it had to be purified. "On 21 June, beneath
a cloudless sky, the entire space devoted to the sacred enclosure was
encompassed with chaplets and garlands. Soldiers, who bore
auspicious names, entered the precinct with sacred boughs(Histores
4.53)." These men "who bore auspicious names" were believed to bear
geniuses of the great men of their family. It was the individual's
genius that was named. And that name stuck to the genius in life and
death. Being named after one of his relatives imparted something of
the relative into the child. There were plenty of ideas on
reincarnation, one version is given by Virgil as Aeneas waits upon
his father in Hades - Hades being another part of the sky "below" the
celestial equator (Aeneid Bk VI). Varro, in De Gente populi Romani,
posed a comment by Farutius, and then says how the author sympathized
with Farutius' view that after a certain period, roughly 440 years, a
person would repeat itself.


Our thought for today comes from Epicurus, Vatican Saying 6:

I"t is impossible for a man who secretly violates the terms of the
agreement not to harm or be harmed to feel confident that he will
remain undiscovered, even if he has already escaped ten thousand
times; for until his death he is never sure that he will not be
detected."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55244 From: M. Octavius Gracchus Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Maior wrote:

> On another point how would you have gotten L. Equitius Cincinnatus
> to act collegially?

Modianus and Piscinus already *had* succeeded in taking over the Collegium
Augurum. Picsinus was added as Augur, and they could have voted 2-1 (or 2-0
with one abstention) for anything that needed to be done. They'd won.
There was no need to go further.

This was revenge.

They weren't content to just render L. Cincinnatus Augur a minority opinion
in the Collegia; they've ruined him, completely. This Senator, Consular,
Censorial, and Priest now has a status less than that of the newest
applicant - for while the newcomer need pay only $15 to exercise the full
rights of citizenship, it'll cost Cincinnatus at least $300 to regain
a fraction of his former status.

Compared to Cincinnatus Augur's "crime", this punishment is obscene.

How many more people will be driven away by these wretched laws, and
the people who abuse them?

Pray that Nova Roma never does become a real country, never does
get any real authority over people's lives.

--
Marcus Octavius Gracchus
octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com

-"Apes don't read philosophy."
-"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of
Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground is
not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."
-from "A Fish Called Wanda"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55245 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetoribus sal.

"Therefore according the tradition and the Roman Lax, I, the Praetor
ACTORI LITEM ADDICO and CODEMNO L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur for
the charges explained by Actor in his Petitio Actinionis."

Your use of Roman law is illegal under the terms of the one supreme
Nova Roman legal document that governs us all, namely the
Constitution. As long as the Constitution exists we are all mandated
to follow it for good or ill, and frequently I have contended in the
past that the net result is indeed ill, but none of us, least of all
the Praetors charged with the administration of Nova Roman law, have
the authority to supplement gaps in our legal code with the tenets
of Roman law. Why? Because the Constitution as our fountainhead of
legal authority does not permit it and indeed through the order of
legal precedence actively prevents us using anything other than that
defined within the body of the Constitution.

As clearly you have either no read the Constitution or if so, you
have done so in a cursory manner (for I cannot believe that you
knowingly would flout it), let me explain.

Section I.A establishes the Constitution as the:

"basic authority for all decision-making within Nova Roma and shall
limit the authority of all magistrates and bodies, and all leges
(laws) passed by the comitia, decreta (decrees) of the priestly
collegia, magisterial edicta (edicts) and Senatus consulta shall be
subject to it..."

It then provides the exceptions of dictatorial edict and
constitutional amendment as being the only two mechanisms for
overriding the current constitution, subject to a restriction that
no "ex post facto" penalty maybe levied.

Having established the framework of what follows as the fountainhead
of Nova Roman law, the Constitution then in Section I.B establishes
the order of legal precedence:

"This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova
Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It
shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by
consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima, laws properly
voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the
collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurum,
Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending
authority as described in section IV of this Constitution), in that
order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority,
the higher authority shall take precedence. Should a law passed by
one of the comitia contradict one passed by another or the same
comitia without explicitly superseding that law, the most recent law
shall take precedence."

The Constitution is clear that this is the extent of Nova Roman law,
nothing more and nothing less. The Constitution cannot be
interpreted, and even if it could, there is nothing that exists in
the Constitution to support your employment of Roman law, however
venerable or applicable in the circumstances you might have deemed
it. Until such time as the Constitution is revoked entirely or
altered to allow this practice, Roman law is an interesting but
within the terms of Nova Roman law, utterly irrelevant. Why
irrelevant? Because the Constitution has failed to include it in
Section I.B or make reference to your right to employ it.

Now praetors, in case I have missed something here can you please
explain under what Section of the Constitution you believe you have
the right to extract such aspects of Roman law as you have seen fit
to do so?

If you cannot evidence a particular section that grants you this
right, you have indeed acted unconstitutionally, rashly and
unfairly. We are governed internally by the Constitution and laws we
the people of Nova Roma deem fit to pass. We are not ruled by
anything else, and if the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria was so ineptly
drafted that it didn't allow for someone not submitting to its
processes, then your duty is not to extract a principle foreign
to "our" law (regardless of the fact that your import may come from
Roman law) and force it illegally into that lex as a praetorian
flash of brilliance to make a broken law work. If it is broken, then
it cannot be used and a case may be made to the people to fix it
according to due process. What should NOT have happened is an
indecent rush to secure a "conviction" that flouted and broke the
rule of the Constitution you both swore to uphold.

Before anyone quotes Section 3.B, that sets one of the functions of
the Praetors as being:

"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma and to
administer the law (such edicts being binding upon themselves as
well as others)"

take note that this section relates to the issuance of edicts, and
the employment of the phrase "administer the law" does not encompass
interpreting the legal of precedence as containing an implicit
unspoken reference to Roman law.

In conclusion your decision in this matter is, until someone
demonstrates where in the Constitution you derive your power to do
this, a gross and flagrant abuse of your powers, a usurpation of the
rights of the people to determine law, and you have made your office
party to an exercise in petty victimization.

Our legal system is flawed all the way through and this sort of
behavior can only bring it further into disrepute, especially when
the two offenders in this matter are the very magistrates charged
with the its administration.

I join Octavius in demanding to know why this abuse of the
Constitution has not been vetoed. Tribunes, you have a sworn duty to
uphold the Constitution and if this is permitted to stand we have
allowed magistrates to simply dredge up any aspect of Roman law and
impose it on us.

In fact what is to stop future Praetors if this gross abuse is
permitted to continue unhindered, from simply inventing their own
sub-sections or indeed entire laws to fill the gaps in our legal
code?

This is a horrendous and dangerous precedent being set here and must
be squashed immediately, for not to do so places all of us in
jeopardy. This sort of abuse is more suited to the principate or
dominate, than the republic we claim to be. Tribunes, I say again,
do your duty and rein these magistrates in.

Valete
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Octavius Gracchus" <hucke@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Salve Caligula Imperator,
>
> > ITEM PLUS,
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55246 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Crasse

dixisti>........... nobody knew that the failing to present himself to
the Tribunal would lead to the case being decided in favour of the other
part..................

Nobody?

Please re-read:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1320
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1327
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRoma-Announce/message/1328
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55145
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55171

et alia


M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55247 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: ID card and / or certificate in the 10th year of Nova Roma
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "vallenporter" <vallenporter@...>
wrote:
> I would think the cost of the membership fee to have quality ID card
> and Certificate as part of it, would make said membership fee 350% of
> what it is now(making it like $52 USD)
>
> I have two other cards from them from two other org I am part of and
> they cost over $24 each.
>
> vale
> Marcus Cornelius Felix


Salve Felix,

I hate to say it but you got screwed. If we order 30mm plastic-coated
credit card style membership cards with full-color front and b/w back
in the very minimum order of 250 cards from Duracard, who makes tens of
thousands of cards for major companies, then we pay $0.96 each. This
includes shipping, set-up fee for ready-made art work. If we order at
least 1000 cards we get a 30% discount!

http://www.duracard.com/pricing.htm

Certificates do not have to be raised ink printing. If someone wants
something nice, they would order a diploma from Plauta. It takes about
3-4 days to arrive in Tennessee from Hungary. Been there, done that.

A nice certificate can be printed by any local printer on a Tektronics
or Okidata color laser printer for no more than $1.00 per certificate,
and they look like they were printed on a web press.

Duracard is in Salvage, Maryland, right out side of DC. Do we have
anyone in the area who could drive up and talk to them if needed?

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55248 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salvete,

> The Praetor is reaching back two thousand years for a law that has
never
> been adopted by any Comitia of Nova Roma.

LVT: That's called precedent: a court decision in an earlier case
with facts and law similar to a dispute currently before a court.
Precedent will ordinarily govern the decision of a later similar
case, unless a party can show that it was wrongly decided or that it
differed in some significant way.

The decision of courts of justice when exactly in point with a case
before the court are generally held to have a binding authority, as
well to keep the scale of justice even and steady because the law in
that case has been solemnly declared and determined.

To render precedents valid they must be founded in reason and
justice; must have been made upon argument, and be the solemn
decision of the court; and in order to give them binding effect there
must be a current of decisions.

According to Lord Talbot, it is "much better to stick to the known
general rules than to follow any one particular precedent which may
be founded on reason unknown to us." Blackstone says, that a former
decision is in general to be followed unless "manifestly absurd or
unjust."

> In addition is the appearance of
> bias on the part of the Praetor who is a member of the staff of the
actor in
> this case, Censor Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus. He should have
recused
> himself from taking part in the proceedings. He even signs his name
noting
> the relationship.

LVT: This is because no one in the Senate has put forth a lex, or if
they have it has not been passed, which requires that elected
officials of the State be barred from staff appointments to other
elected magistrates, the exception being Quaestores, who are merely
publicly-elected staff members.

When everyone in the government is a member of everyone else's staff,
there can be absolutely no prevention of corruption, ill intentioned
or not, or the potential for it. If there are no checks and balances
in place to self-regulate, then how could one expect efficiency?

The Praetor is in a Catch-22, if you will, not by choice, but by
absence of law.

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55249 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Iuli Caesar

Good exposition! But in the Constitution there is not one single word about iudicial system.

The iudicial system is in the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria actually in force. And the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria does not say that the judge is obliged to wait until the reus wants presented in court.

I can not send my 6 lictors to compel the reus to go to court (just as a judge would send the police to find the defendant). In Nova Roma there is not jail,  there is not prison there is not police.

Do not answering to the call of the judges is a worse offense (at least in the US law) than the crimes with wich the actor charged the reus.

In addition, the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria  (which is not in contradiction with the Constitution) allows that I acted as I have done

Please read the Praefatio of the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria  (for yor convenience I copy-pasted the text):

"The intent of this law is to establish a judicial system in Nova Roma, setting the legal procedures that must be followed to present a case to a court and to constitute that court. This judicial system shall be based on the imperium of the praetores, thus intending to fulfill article IV.A.3.b. of the Constitution of Nova Roma.

These procedures are based on the Roman republican procedural model, both because it probably is the model that best suits Nova Roma and because it is the basis for all the procedural systems of modern Western nations. Some concessions to Nova Roma's particular structure have had to be made; but, in spirit, it follows the ancient Roman procedure."

See also Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Secunda, VI.B

Cura ut valeas

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55250 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
Salve Triari.

Nova Roman law does not permit precedents simply because of the
rigid nature of the Constitution. It is a fundamental mistake to use
principles that relate to macronational legal systems, and indeed
Roman legal systems, in Nova Roma. The Constitution as the supreme
legal source governs here. If precedent were to be introduced, then
it must be allowed for under the Constitution. The fact that it
isn't and that makes the job of the Praetor difficult is irrelevant.

We simply cannot go around sticking bits into the Constitution to
make sense of it. There are only two methods to amend the
Constitution, dictatorial edict and a legislated change in the
document itself through due process. It makes no mention in the
rights, obligations and powers of the prateors of precedent, or of
the inclusion of Roman law.

The only correct process in this case I contend, was to scrap the
trial and by edict let it be known that due to the huge gaping hole
in the entire dubious process of "trying" people in Nova Roma, the
prateors would not accept any cases until the oversight was fixed.
At that point, in front of the people we could all have a voice over
whether to amend it or not. Until such time this lex is shot, dead,
useless, and a fatutous waste of time to prosecute under. Well, it
is if one as praetor is to behave constitutionally.

Vale
Caesar



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> > The Praetor is reaching back two thousand years for a law that
has
> never
> > been adopted by any Comitia of Nova Roma.
>
> LVT: That's called precedent: a court decision in an earlier case
> with facts and law similar to a dispute currently before a court.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55251 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Praetor.

You have taken the preamble which establishes the guide to this lex
and assumed that gives you carte blanche to invoke Roman law to fix
a problem with the lex itaself. It gives you no such right.

The constitution in the order of legal precedence overrules a lex,
so even if that was the intent in the lex, that too is irrelevant.
no lex can alter the Constitution. Unless the Constitution under
Section I.B is amended to allow the inclusion of Roman law and
precedent via principles, then what you and your colleague have done
is to widen illegally the scope of the legal chain. The thin of the
wedge is here, for next time you as Praetor may claim common sense
(your interpretaion may differ from others as mine may from yours so
that's a really dangerous route) as being implicitly in the legal
chain.

Well, it isn't and since we have a rigid inflexible Constitution
there is nothing any of us can do when these glaring inadequacies in
the law are established.

I thank you for your links, but again, all irrelevant. The
Constitution trumps a lex any day and all days.

Vale
Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55252 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Titus Flavius Aquila Cn. Iuli Caesar salutem plurimam dicit
 
Salve Caesar,
 
the tribunes are currently discussing this issue upon my request.
 
Although we have conflicting information if Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus is still a citizen of Nova Roma. We have not heard from him for a long time.
 
My single opinion as a Tribunus Plebis is, that if the praetor accepts a court case - if you personally do like or do not like the case is no issue here -  both parties have to come forward to present their point of view to the court. Disregarding the call of the Praetor is an offense.
 
Optime vale
Titus Flavius Aquila
Tribunus Plebis
Nova Roma

----- Ursprüngliche Mail ----
Von: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 21. Februar 2008, 07:14:24 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti

Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetoribus sal.

"Therefore according the tradition and the Roman Lax, I, the Praetor
ACTORI LITEM ADDICO and CODEMNO L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur for
the charges explained by Actor in his Petitio Actinionis."

Your use of Roman law is illegal under the terms of the one supreme
Nova Roman legal document that governs us all, namely the
Constitution. As long as the Constitution exists we are all mandated
to follow it for good or ill, and frequently I have contended in the
past that the net result is indeed ill, but none of us, least of all
the Praetors charged with the administration of Nova Roman law, have
the authority to supplement gaps in our legal code with the tenets
of Roman law. Why? Because the Constitution as our fountainhead of
legal authority does not permit it and indeed through the order of
legal precedence actively prevents us using anything other than that
defined within the body of the Constitution.

As clearly you have either no read the Constitution or if so, you
have done so in a cursory manner (for I cannot believe that you
knowingly would flout it), let me explain.

Section I.A establishes the Constitution as the:

"basic authority for all decision-making within Nova Roma and shall
limit the authority of all magistrates and bodies, and all leges
(laws) passed by the comitia, decreta (decrees) of the priestly
collegia, magisterial edicta (edicts) and Senatus consulta shall be
subject to it..."

It then provides the exceptions of dictatorial edict and
constitutional amendment as being the only two mechanisms for
overriding the current constitution, subject to a restriction that
no "ex post facto" penalty maybe levied.

Having established the framework of what follows as the fountainhead
of Nova Roman law, the Constitution then in Section I.B establishes
the order of legal precedence:

"This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova
Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It
shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by
consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima, laws properly
voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the
collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurum,
Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending
authority as described in section IV of this Constitution) , in that
order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority,
the higher authority shall take precedence. Should a law passed by
one of the comitia contradict one passed by another or the same
comitia without explicitly superseding that law, the most recent law
shall take precedence."

The Constitution is clear that this is the extent of Nova Roman law,
nothing more and nothing less. The Constitution cannot be
interpreted, and even if it could, there is nothing that exists in
the Constitution to support your employment of Roman law, however
venerable or applicable in the circumstances you might have deemed
it. Until such time as the Constitution is revoked entirely or
altered to allow this practice, Roman law is an interesting but
within the terms of Nova Roman law, utterly irrelevant. Why
irrelevant? Because the Constitution has failed to include it in
Section I.B or make reference to your right to employ it.

Now praetors, in case I have missed something here can you please
explain under what Section of the Constitution you believe you have
the right to extract such aspects of Roman law as you have seen fit
to do so?

If you cannot evidence a particular section that grants you this
right, you have indeed acted unconstitutionally, rashly and
unfairly. We are governed internally by the Constitution and laws we
the people of Nova Roma deem fit to pass. We are not ruled by
anything else, and if the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria was so ineptly
drafted that it didn't allow for someone not submitting to its
processes, then your duty is not to extract a principle foreign
to "our" law (regardless of the fact that your import may come from
Roman law) and force it illegally into that lex as a praetorian
flash of brilliance to make a broken law work. If it is broken, then
it cannot be used and a case may be made to the people to fix it
according to due process. What should NOT have happened is an
indecent rush to secure a "conviction" that flouted and broke the
rule of the Constitution you both swore to uphold.

Before anyone quotes Section 3.B, that sets one of the functions of
the Praetors as being:

"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to engage in those tasks
which advance the mission and function of Nova Roma and to
administer the law (such edicts being binding upon themselves as
well as others)"

take note that this section relates to the issuance of edicts, and
the employment of the phrase "administer the law" does not encompass
interpreting the legal of precedence as containing an implicit
unspoken reference to Roman law.

In conclusion your decision in this matter is, until someone
demonstrates where in the Constitution you derive your power to do
this, a gross and flagrant abuse of your powers, a usurpation of the
rights of the people to determine law, and you have made your office
party to an exercise in petty victimization.

Our legal system is flawed all the way through and this sort of
behavior can only bring it further into disrepute, especially when
the two offenders in this matter are the very magistrates charged
with the its administration.

I join Octavius in demanding to know why this abuse of the
Constitution has not been vetoed. Tribunes, you have a sworn duty to
uphold the Constitution and if this is permitted to stand we have
allowed magistrates to simply dredge up any aspect of Roman law and
impose it on us.

In fact what is to stop future Praetors if this gross abuse is
permitted to continue unhindered, from simply inventing their own
sub-sections or indeed entire laws to fill the gaps in our legal
code?

This is a horrendous and dangerous precedent being set here and must
be squashed immediately, for not to do so places all of us in
jeopardy. This sort of abuse is more suited to the principate or
dominate, than the republic we claim to be. Tribunes, I say again,
do your duty and rein these magistrates in.

Valete
Caesar

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "M. Octavius Gracchus" <hucke@...>
wrote:

>
>
> Salve Caligula Imperator,
>
> > ITEM PLUS,
> >




Lesen Sie Ihre E-Mails jetzt einfach von unterwegs mit Yahoo! Go.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55253 From: M·C·C· Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici
Salve Caesar

.
From the legal point of view a Constitution is a magna charta that provides guidelines for the further development of the law of a country, a nation or a society.

Clearly, a legislator can not pass a law that contradicts the Constitution, but it is entirely proper that a legislator supplement the Constitution.

In many modern Constitutions which based its precedents on Roman law they say explicitly that empowers the legislature to develop certain subject.

There is also the implicit permission to legislate on a particular subject that is not expressly regulated by the same constitution.

From your point of view if NR is a physical state (with cities, roads and streets) not we could install a single traffic light on our streets because our Constitution is "rigid and inflexible" and does not cover the movement of cars on the streets.

The Constitution have the precedence, but the other leges which are in force in Nova Roma , are in force and a magistrate can and must act in accordance with those laws.

From your point of view, If I (serving according to the principles of the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria) acted contrary to the Constitution, this will mean:

1.- That Lex Salicia Iudiciaria is against the Constitution
2.- That the Comitia Populi Tributa that adopting the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria acted contrary to the Constitution
3.- That the Tribuni Plebis of 2765 failed to protect the Constitution because the law was not vetoed
4.- That all the nova roman people acted contrary to the Constitution

Cura ut valeas

M.C. Complutensis


___

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55254 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Aquila.

I thank you for your attention in this matter, but what you say is
your opinion gives me cause for more concern.

Exactly where in the chain of legal authority does it sya,
explicitly say, that not turning up in front of a Nova Roman court
is an "offence"? I think I can answer that myself, though I stand
ready to be corrected, it does not say that ANYWHERE. Clearly it
doesn't say it in the lex as this was the very reason the prateors
did what they did. It most certainly doesn't say it in the
Constitution.

You, the tribunes, the Senate, the praetors, indeed all of Nova Roma
(though I doubt that is the case) may think that it SHOULD be, but
thinking that it should because to think otherwise scuppers this law
and renders it useless, is not the same as it being enshrined in the
constitution and/or a lex. If it isn't in the law you can't pencil
it in to make sense of legal oversight.

It is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that the glaring
inadequacy of our legal system is held up to the spotlight. The
answer to these issues cannot be to simply do whatever a prateor
thinks fit under the guise of his or her imperium to sort the mess
out. Our Constitution is clear on what is and what isn't law, and
nowhere are the praeors granted the power to amend laws. Their
imperium cannot amend the Constitution.

In fact they arent even granted the power to interpret them, just
adminster them. You cannot adminster what doesn't exist, and if
there is no power to comple a citizen in front of the court and the
process flops as a result, oh well too sad too bad. Fix the law
according to due process, suspend its adminstration until that
happens, but don't unconstitutionally try to fix the problem. That
is an illegal and dangerous precedent.

We have just witnessed a citizen of long standing tossed out of
every office he holds and fined what frankly is an absurd amount of
money. Bad enough that this happens, worse still that it is achieved
by blatant unconstitutional and thus illegal means. This man has
rights, as do we all, and if Nova Roma did not make it an offence to
fail to attend a court hearing, then no one has right to compromise
his rights. His rights are ours, and they are simply that the law
should be enforced as it stands, not as somonee thinks it should
stand.

On a purely practical note, we should all be in the business of
protecting Nova Roma. Has anyone stopped to consider that if, as I
contend until demonstrated clearly where they have the power to do
so, the prateors have acted illegally then they have exposed Nova
Roma to possible macronational legal action. We simply can't just
essentially persecute one citizen illegally, outside of the scope of
our laws, governed as we are by a strict and defined legal chain,
and be comfortable with explaining this to a macronational court.

Tribune, we are all entitled to know where we stand under the law,
and we cannot, should not, must not, allow a prcedent where no
citizen can be sure that the law actually means what it says, where
the constitution does not protect our rights as set out within it,
and where the very legal chain is overturned on the whim of two
magistrates.

Not turning up to court is NOT an offence and if the trial couldn't
proceed, well it should have been dismissed. That it wasn't is a
disgrace and a blot on the imapriality of the praetors and their
role to admister the law as it EXISTS, not as they THINK it should
read.

Vale
Caesar




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
> Titus Flavius Aquila Cn. Iuli Caesar salutem plurimam dicit
>
> Salve Caesar,
>
> the tribunes are currently discussing this issue upon my request.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55255 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: To CINCINNATUS and MODIANUS et al
L. Vitellius L. Equito Nova Romani SPD

Salve et salvete,

TO EVERYONE:

It seems to me that the problem with this whole situation is the
contents of the archives of the list. Cincinnatus has stated on this
list, that he is willing to copy and forward the archive posts in
printed format or save and put them on a disk or something. He stated
this on this list several days ago.

If these archives are that important, would someone write the man a
damned check and lets move on. The list belongs to him, from what I
can tell under both NR and US law, therefore, the contents are his,
should he choose to refuse to allow access. He has agreed to allow
access, but at a reasonable cost for his time and materials.

I have never met either the Reus or the Actor in person, only through
email. I do understand from a well respected civis who knows both of
them and has met them, that Cincinnatus is a very learned man and a
valuable asset to the Religio and NR, and that Modianus is not nearly
as wildly reactive in person than he is on the web.

I would propose that Cincinnatus allow Modianus temporary access for
24 hours to "get what he can get" from the archives, then after that
remove him permanently from the list and then "it is what it is."

There is no cost, nor time, involved for Cincinnatus, as I, nor
anyone else know what his personal time commitments are. I would
suggest that Modianus monetarily compensate him out of his own
pocket, nothing extraordinary, but at least offer some compensation
if he really wants the information that badly.

What happens if we don't have the information on that list? Something
like the someone sacking Rome and destroying the e-scrolls? I believe
something like that happened before...maybe the Gauls???

Further, I would suggest that the Actor and the Reus just agree to
disagree and get own with it. Both have made valuable contributions
to NR, and will continue to do so for the better, unless both are
crucified and impaled on tall, nasty posts along the e-Via Appia.

TO CINCINNATUS:

Cincinnatus, you must realize that not all of us speak, read and
write Greek and Latin, but this does not mean we cannot be your
students and work under your direction for the common good. It is
under your wisdom and experience that others can learn.

Cincinnatus, this question to you is personal. Did you ever
successfully build a wooden tool box deep underwater in a running
river the first time, or did you have to learn after practice and
figuring out how do do it? I caution you not to laugh it off or lie
to yourself, as it is a very important question. Did you learn from
others who had been there before? Did your team suffer if a really
good colleague got waxed?

TO MODIANUS:

Modianus, did your mother ever tell you that you can catch more flies
with honey than you can with vinegar? Or, never mix politics with
religion? Or, that patience is a cardinal virtue? Or, Life's a bitch,
and then you die? Calm down, my friend, if you don't get the
info...you don't get it. The Religio WILL NOT collapse without
it. "It is what it is!"

TO THE CP:

It befuzzles me why the College of Augurs cannot contain both men,
each with their separate lists if they wish, to be maintained along
the same lines as the Aediles, Praetors, Consules, and Censores.
Cannot each have their own cohors, comprised of sacerdotes/scribae
and camilli? Cannot the CP start an official list for the augurs,
being the senior of the colleges, with NO augur as owner, if they
simply cannot agree? Cannot there be a decision made to always have
an odd number of augurs to prevent deadlock? Romulus appointed three,
cannot we? If an augury needs to take place, then a magistrate can
request that one of them perform the necessary tasks. If the
collegium is asked to make a decision, then the majority decision is
accepted? Does it have to be a unanimous vote, good or bad?

TO THE PRAETORS:

I have serious issues with Praetors allowing formulae that call for
the expulsion of senior members of the Religio, for whatever reasons,
when they are in a role which is appointed for life. No, I do not
want to hear the "This ain't Ancient Rome" arguement, either. Either
we do the reconstructionist thing, or we don't. If we do, we have to
accept the good with the bad, the ill with the well, the unpleasant
with the pleasant, etc. If we don't, then we all may as well get back
to the study group thing, where nothing really means everything. If
the Praetors are allowed to remove a senior life-appointed member of
the State Priesthood via legal means on a religious matter (and yes
this is a religious matter), then the whole Religio becomes a
joke...a sacrilege..a novelty of modern man...kinda like a virtual
ludi circenses race...it's a simple dice game. We could appoint
virtual flamen minores, fraters arval, and sacerdotes to the vacant
positions. Each pontiff could pick their own character and create a
Religio background for them. What was the kind of dark ceremony in
the Circus Flaminius featuring members of the priesthood? We could
recreate this in the Ludi Romani!

You ALL understand that I am not serious and that this is NOT a
joking matter, don't you?

PROPOSED RESOLUTION:

This matter should be dropped from the Tribunalis and placed in the
hands of the CP, where it belongs. Since the Collegium cannot make a
decision on this matter, then it should fall to the next higher
collegium, not next higher court. The Praetors should not allow
themselves to be placed in a situation which lies in the realm of the
Religio and neither should the Senate. On the other hand, nor should
they be allowed to intervene or voluntarily place themselves in this
situation, either. I urge the Praetors to work with the Pontiffs, and
the Pontiffs to work together to mediate this situation and reach a
solution in this matter. I urge Cincinnatus to follow the advice of a
novice camillus and do the proposed above, and I urge Modianus to
accept the results, whatever they are.

I also urge everyone in the Respublica to understand that,
sometimes, "It is what it is...", and you just can't find a nice,
amicable, happy, workable solution for your problem, you just have to
deal with it. Ever step in dog poop?

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55256 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-02-21
Subject: Re: De Sententia Iudici K. Fabi vs. L. Equiti
Salve Gracchus,

Yes, this is bad I'm afraid...

I urge Consul Piscinus to veto this pronouncement, and move this
religious matter into the CP where it belongs.

Vale,
Triarius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Octavius Gracchus" <hucke@...>
wrote:
>
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Maior wrote:
>
> > On another point how would you have gotten L. Equitius Cincinnatus
> > to act collegially?
>
> Modianus and Piscinus already *had* succeeded in taking over the
Collegium
> Augurum. Picsinus was added as Augur, and they could have voted 2-
1 (or 2-0
> with one abstention) for anything that needed to be done. They'd
won.
> There was no need to go further.
>
> This was revenge.
>
> They weren't content to just render L. Cincinnatus Augur a minority
opinion
> in the Collegia; they've ruined him, completely. This Senator,
Consular,
> Censorial, and Priest now has a status less than that of the newest
> applicant - for while the newcomer need pay only $15 to exercise
the full
> rights of citizenship, it'll cost Cincinnatus at least $300 to
regain
> a fraction of his former status.
>
> Compared to Cincinnatus Augur's "crime", this punishment is obscene.
>
> How many more people will be driven away by these wretched laws, and
> the people who abuse them?
>
> Pray that Nova Roma never does become a real country, never does
> get any real authority over people's lives.
>
> --
> Marcus Octavius Gracchus
> octavius@... * http://www.graveyards.com
>
> -"Apes don't read philosophy."
> -"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it! Let me correct
> you on a few things: Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message
of
> Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'. And the London Underground
is
> not a political movement! Those are all mistakes. I looked them
up."
> -from "A Fish Called Wanda"
>