Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Mar 1-4, 2008

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55611 From: Paolo Eutimo Cristiano Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: calendae martius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55612 From: Ice Hunter Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55613 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: DIS MANIBVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55614 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DIS MANIBVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55615 From: Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: My speech to honor the first ten years of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55616 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Dawn JANUS ritual, this Kal. March
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55617 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55618 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55619 From: os390account Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Senate Announcement : Concordialia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55620 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55621 From: sstevemoore Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Concordialia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55622 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55623 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55624 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55625 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55626 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55627 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55628 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55629 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55630 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Kalendas Martias - Consules address.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55631 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55632 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55633 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: IUDICIO M.MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: APPOINTED IUDICES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55634 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - Report of the Ceremony
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55635 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55636 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55637 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Concordialia: 10 anos de Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55638 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55639 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: CONCORDIALIA - 10 AÑOS DE NOVA ROMA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55640 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55641 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55642 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55643 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55644 From: sstevemoore Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55645 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55646 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Piece of Nova Roman history
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55647 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Certamen historicum Ludi Conditorum - Historical quiz about Nova Rom
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55648 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55649 From: C. MINICIUS AGRIPPA Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Baelo First Century BC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55650 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55651 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55652 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55653 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55654 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: A Invitation to Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55655 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55656 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55657 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Podcast
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55658 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55659 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Sacra Fidei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55660 From: albmd323232 Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Where are the Roman exhibits in Florida?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55661 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55662 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Sacra Fidei
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55663 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55664 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55665 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55666 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55667 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55668 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: New Priesthood Appointments
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55669 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55670 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55671 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55672 From: Francesco Valenzano Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: looking for pictures
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55673 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55674 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55675 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: A group dedicated to new or prospective citizens, 3/3/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55676 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55677 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: [Fwd: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: Appointment of new iudices]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55678 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: obsolete skills
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55679 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55680 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55681 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55682 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55683 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55685 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55686 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55687 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55688 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Piece of Nova Roman history
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55689 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55690 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Certamen historicum Ludi Conditorum - Historical quiz about Nova Rom
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55691 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55692 From: marcusroseaus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Back in the fold...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55693 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55694 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55695 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: obsolete skills
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55696 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Circenses Semi-Finals!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55697 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Back in the fold...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55698 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55699 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55700 From: Va. Carper Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: obsolete skills
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55701 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55702 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55703 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55704 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55705 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55706 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55707 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55708 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55709 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55710 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: AEDILIS PLEBIS NEEDED - CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55711 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Penal system - do we need it?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55712 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55713 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55714 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55715 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55716 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55717 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55718 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55719 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55720 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55721 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55722 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55723 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55724 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55725 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55726 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Editing peronel account on NR Web Site
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55727 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55728 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Editing peronel account on NR Web Site
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55729 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55730 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Sacra Minervae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55731 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55732 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55733 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55734 From: SVM STOICUS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55735 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55736 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55737 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: a. d. IV Non. Mart.: Romulus and Rome's Constitution
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55738 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55739 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55740 From: Rich Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55741 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55743 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Circenses Finals!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55744 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Edictum Consularis X: Extending the Deadline for Applications
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55745 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55746 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55747 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Venator podcasted
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55748 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Applications are being accepted for Scholarships for 2761 a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55749 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55750 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55751 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55752 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55753 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55754 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55755 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Venator podcasted
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55756 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55757 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55758 From: J Auger Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55759 From: M�IVL�SEVERVS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55760 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Declare a mistrial please
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55761 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55762 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55763 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55764 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55765 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55766 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55767 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55768 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55769 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55770 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: AEDILIS PLEBIS NEEDED - CALL FOR CANDIDATES - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55771 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55772 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Venator podcasted
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55773 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Realistic sword fights in movies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55774 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55775 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55776 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55777 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55778 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Two more pieces of Nova Roma history
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55779 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55780 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55781 From: C. Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55782 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Birthday of a young Nova Roman
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55783 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Uploading files
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55784 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Birthday of a young Nova Roman
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55785 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Uploading files
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55786 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55787 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55788 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55611 From: Paolo Eutimo Cristiano Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: calendae martius
Avete Omnes
Deus Salutatum
Mihi nomen est Paulus Scipio et hoc est mihi cordi rebus divini
interesse calendae dies martis divo onorem ,invoco lustrationis nos
et bonae omeninis
tanti est
Scipio
Salvete
My name its Paolo Scipio and in this day i will pray for everybody
good and lucky destiny
ciao
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55612 From: Ice Hunter Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete omnes,
 
Lentulus scripsit:
 
>Thanks to our Patres Patriae, the Founding Fathers, M. Cassius
Iulianus....
 
Is it me, or is it in poor taste to thank someone who, in the last day, has had his religious offices stripped from him?  And this barely a week after Cincinnatua Augur suffered a similar fate.  I take no joy in this day.  Perhaps it was believed to be the only way to solve the CP stalemate, but proscriptions under any guise are not pleasant to witness.
 
Valete bene,
Artoria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55613 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: DIS MANIBVS
DIS MANIBVS A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    A re publica condita, sex quidem cives (ex quibus duo recentiores) amisimus, quos lugemus.  Praeterea, alius cuius mors nobis confirmari nequibat quoque periisse in casu vehiculorum videtur.   Hos omnes lugemus.  

    From the foundation of the res publica, we have lost at least six citizens (among whom two are quite recent), whom we mourn.  Moreover, another whose death could not be confirmed to us appears to have perished in a vehicle accident.  We mourn all of them.  

    Nomina eorum (cum anno mortis) sunt:  

    Their names (with the year of death) are:

        L. Albinus Germanicus [2002]
        A. Minucius Silvanus  [2002]
        Ianus Minucius-Tiberius Americanus [2003]
        C. Lucilla Milo [2004]
        P. Livius Triarius [2006]
        C. Marius Maior [2007]

        et/and

        C. Lanius Falco, quondam gubernator provinciae Novae Britanniae, cuius mors confirmari non poterat, sed nomen in mundo magnopere insolitum  est, et vir illo nomine periisse in casu notus est.

                                    former governor of Nova Britannia, whose passing could not be confirmed, but his macronational name is very unusual, and a man by that name is known to have perished in an accident.

    Mementote eorum in precibus sententiisque vestris.  

    Remember them in your thoughts and prayers.

Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55614 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DIS MANIBVS
Re: [Nova-Roma] DIS MANIBVS
A. Tullia Scholastica iterum quirítibus bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    Additamentum parvulum addo/I am making a small addition:
 
 

A. Tullia Scholastica quirítibus bonae voluntátis S.P.D.

    A re publica condita, sex quidem cives (ex quibus duo recentiores) amisimus, quos lugemus.  Praeterea, alius cuius mors nobis confirmari nequibat quoque periisse in casu vehiculorum videtur.   Hos omnes lugemus.  

    From the foundation of the res publica, we have lost at least six citizens (among whom two are quite recent), whom we mourn.  Moreover, another whose death could not be confirmed to us appears to have perished in a vehicle accident.  We mourn all of them.  

    Nomina eorum (cum anno mortis) sunt:  

    Their names (with the year of death) are:

        L. Albinus Germanicus [2002]
        A. Minucius Silvanus  [2002]
        Ianus Minucius-Tiberius Americanus [2003]
        C. Lucilla Milo [2004]
        P. Livius Triarius [2006]
        C. Marius Maior [2007]

        et/and

        C. Lanius Falco, quondam gubernator provinciae Novae Britanniae, cuius mors confirmari non poterat, sed nomen in mundo magnopere insolitum  est, et vir illo nomine periisse in casu notus est.

                                    former governor of Nova Britannia, whose passing could not be confirmed, but his macronational name is very unusual, and a man by that name is known to have perished in an accident.

    Vnicuique sit tibi terra levis.

    May the earth rest lightly on each one of you.

    Quirítes, mementote eorum in precibus sententiisque vestris.  

    Citizens, remember them in your thoughts and prayers.

 

Valete.
 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55613;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55615 From: Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: My speech to honor the first ten years of Nova Roma
Salvete Quirites!

I have been asked by the Curule Aediles to hold a speech as the
Princeps Senatus. In our Res Publica I am nothing more than the
oldest former Censor (Censorius), Although I have a lot of experience
of the inner workings of Nova Roma, I am still just another Senator.
Anyway, I hope that most of You will be able to share my vision.

With the support of my prayers to the Immortals and the knowledge of
Nova Roma I hereby will present my vision of the future for Nova
Roma. This future will, however, not be achieved without the hard
work of us, her citizens and an honest look at the present.

Nova Roma after ten years is a kid, rather quarrelsome, loud and
self-centered. But, quirites, Rome wasn't built on one day and Nova
Roma will not be built on a base of just a decade. Will Nova Roma
survive the present clamor? To achieve this we will need to show more
Comitas, Clementia, Severitas, Pietas and Prudentia, these are Roman
virtues that or forefathers excelled in and that we also need to
master. Yes, Nova Roma has, as its mother, the city of Rome, survived
again and again, protected by the Immortals.

This is also, with Roma Antiqua as model, what Nova Roma will do. As
the Palatine Hill was the true center around which Roma Aeterna was
built, these 10 years old Res Publica will be the center around which
Nova Roma, while praying to Mother Palatua, will grow stronger and
more stabile. Please remember that also the first years of the City
was full of conflicts, but like the embryonic city on the Palatine
survived this Res Publica will survive.

Nova Roma will rise and survive during the coming ten years to become
bigger and stronger, even though we might never show a totally united
front. Still if we continue to pray to Concordia and ask her for
guidance we might learn how to at least unite enough to keep the Res
Publica together.

Nova Roma is protected by the Capitol triad: Jupiter, Juno and
Minerva. With their connecting with the skies, the feminine aspect
and wisdom and with them as our powerful Protectors we might slowly
become as stabile as the Capitol rock that their temple stood on.

But this will not be achieved if we don't deserve it and we need to
start building that ground that will be the foundation for the coming
years and for the future. I am convinced that we need to build local
chapters (oppida and municipia), continue to support the Magna Mater
project, look for more projects that will earn us the respect of the
surrounding world, recruit and teach more citizens and cultores and
generally involve ourselves more in the Roman world as it takes shape
today.

This is my vision, it includes less petty discussions and more work
in the real world to make Romanitas and our Res Publica present in
today's world. In ten years we must set new goals to take the next
step and with the help of the Immortals that will make us, after ten
more years, more well known and strong among all those who are
interested of Roma Aeterna.
--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55616 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Dawn JANUS ritual, this Kal. March
Albucius aed. omnibus s.d.

Please find below the C.L.C. report on the ritual that has conducted
Sacerdos Tiberius Octavius Claudianus at dawn in the wooden temple of
Janus, in the Argiletum (street).

The JUNO ritual (in the second part of this morning) will be
published later by officiant Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus.

Has currently begun : the Concordia ceremony, by Sacerdos Cn.
Cornelius Lentulus.


Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.

-------------------------------------------------------------

CONCORDALIA **JANUS** RITUAL


07:05 - Sent by our reporter P. Concordianus Pauper for CLC (Catena
Ludorum Curulium)


Short after dawn the pontifices and the consuls have joined the
Aediles curules, to take part in the traditional ritual at the Temple
of Janus, in the Argiletum street, not far from the Forum.

Most of the public or religious officers are also there, except, like
yesterday, both Patres Patriae. We must remember that on Fornicalia,
the Collegium Pontificum has stated the end of Pontifex Maximus and
Pater Patriae Cassius's office, and this may explain that.

Sacerdos Iani Tiberius Ocatius Claudianus has officied in the
Argiletum. As it has been his first ritual, he has been helped,
specially in reviewing his ceremonial formulas, by Pontifex Moravius.

More than a hundred citizens have gathered in the street around the
temple, before its eastern gate and behind it, towards the western
gate. For you know that this very old place has a gate to the east
and the rising sun and a door looking to the west and sunset.

Silence has quick fallen on the Argiletum, for everybody had
conscience of this particular event : it is not so often we have
Matronalia mixed with a Concordalia festival, and a Nova Roma tenth
birthday !

And Tiberius Octavius Claudianus gave the following ceremony :

-----

Octavius has :

Approached the altar bearing gifts and with your right hand held
forward, palm up, in a gesture of offering.

"Hus ades, Pater Iane, Codievi oborieso. Omnia vero ad Patulcium
commisse. Iane iam es, duonus Cerus es, duonus Ianus. Veni
potissimum melios eum recum, Deorum Deus.

Come, be present, Father Janus, the Opener. Arise Planter (of the
Stars). All things, truly, I entrust to Patulcium the Opener. Now You
are Janus the Gatekeeper, now Cerus the Good Creator, now Janus the
God of Good Beginnings. Come, now most especially, God of Gods, You
who are the better of these kings.

Offered incense of bay laurel and sweet scented flowers.

"Quamvis aliorum numina placem, Iane, tibi primum tura merumque
fero, 'ut posso aditum per tu, qui limina serves, ad quoscumque volo
habere deos.

Janus, though I propitiate other Gods, I do offer wine and cakes to
You first, so that I may obtain access through You, Janus, to any of
the other Gods I may call upon.

In tua, pater carissime, in tua sumus custodia. Iane, te hoc ture
ommovendo bonas preces praecor, uti sis volens propitius mihi
liberisque meis domo familiaeque meae.

In You, dearest Father, in Your hands do we place our safekeeping.
Janus, in offering to You this incense I pray good prayers that You
may favor me, my children, our house and our home.

Poured a libation of honeyed wine:

"Iane pater, uti te strue commovenda bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto

Father Janus, be strengthened by this bread, be warmed by this small
portion of our wine.

Iane, veni: Matutine pater, seu Jane, libentius audis, unde homines
operum primos vitaeque labores instituunt, sic dis placitum, tu
caminis esto principium.

Janus, come! Father Matutinus, or else Janus, if You so prefer to
hear, regarded by men as the beginning of works and life's labors, so
does it please the Gods, may You begin my prayer. (Insert prayers)

Finished by pouring a second libation as before. Then turning
around, your hand held liberalis, to pray:

"Harumce rerum ergo sis volens propitius mihi liberisque meis domo
familiaeque meae, sicuti dixi, ergo macte vino inferio esto

Thus for these reasons, as I have said, that You might be favorable
to me, to my children, our house and our home, therefore may You be
honored by this small portion of wine.

Ilicet. Di immortales faciant, tam pias quam felices.
"Thus it is done. May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as
it is pious."



Here it is, auditores et spectatores ! Here is the end of this Janus
ceremony, on these Concordalia / Matronalia Day. Now, I will meet you
at 10:30, for this second morning ritual, Juno's one. See you there!



- 08:20 - C.L.C. - P. Concordianus Pauper -
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55617 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salve Artoria
 
I think that the whole explanation for why Cassius "retired" was pretty tacky. Let's call a spade a spade. He didn't toddle off into the sunset clutching the fruits of his commercial labour, whistling cheerfully as he passed along. He was kicked out of his office.
 
Vale bene
Cn. Iulius Caesar
 

Ice Hunter <icehunter@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,
 
Lentulus scripsit:
 
>Thanks to our Patres Patriae, the Founding Fathers, M. Cassius Iulianus....
 
Is it me, or is it in poor taste to thank someone who, in the last day, has had his religious offices stripped from him?  And this barely a week
.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55618 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete!

The voting results are here. It was 6 to 1.

http://novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_alter_MMDCCLXI

optime valete!

Agricola



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Artoria
>
> I think that the whole explanation for why Cassius "retired" was
pretty tacky. Let's call a spade a spade. He didn't toddle off into
the sunset clutching the fruits of his commercial labour, whistling
cheerfully as he passed along. He was kicked out of his office.
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Purge_of_MMDCCLXI_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> Vale bene
> Cn. Iulius Caesar
> http://gnaeusiuliuscaesar.blogspot.com/
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55619 From: os390account Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Senate Announcement : Concordialia
Tribunus Plebis Q. Valerius Callidus quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete!

This is a preliminary message from the Senate to announce that with
the 10th anniversary of NovaRoma, the Senate of Nova Roma officially
proclaims the Kalendas Martiae MMDCCLXI a.U.c ( 1st of March 2761
a.U.c) as a Nova Roman holiday, Concordialia.

Valete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55620 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
You can honor someone's accomplishment without having to bring up that they abandoned their post later on. For example, Nixon enacted the EPA, which we could thank him for without having to add that he resigned before getting impeached.
 
I, for one, find it to be very good news that we will soon have a new PM who will be active and fulfill his duties.
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ice Hunter
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY

Salvete omnes,
 
Lentulus scripsit:
 
>Thanks to our Patres Patriae, the Founding Fathers, M. Cassius Iulianus....
 
Is it me, or is it in poor taste to thank someone who, in the last day, has had his religious offices stripped from him?  And this barely a week after Cincinnatua Augur suffered a similar fate.  I take no joy in this day.  Perhaps it was believed to be the only way to solve the CP stalemate, but proscriptions under any guise are not pleasant to witness.
 
Valete bene,
Artoria

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55621 From: sstevemoore Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Concordialia
M. Valerius Potitus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete, omnes.

Greetings to all and best wishes on this anniversary. May Sol look
favorably on each of you and your families!

Congratulations are in order: belatedly to my cousin, Callidus, for
his election as tribune, and now to my cousin Poplicola for his
elevation as flamen. And best wishes to my honored cousin Messallina,
chief vestal.

It is indeed a great day for Nova Roma to see the Valerii stepping up
to support the Republic and the immortal gods.

I heartily concur with the Princeps Senatus that we must build local
chapters. There are many Romans and Roman-leaning people out there who
can bring energy and life to the Republic, but they need face-to-face
contact with other citizens and opportunities to engage in civic life.
The oppida and municipia are the building blocks of our future.

With hearty prayers to Concordia Dea, her companions Pax and Iustitia,
and to the gods of my gens, Dis Pater and Prosperina, I wish all
Quirites a happy and healthy New Year.

Valete.
Potitus

"Tuta erit vobis Velia."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55622 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
---Salve Artoria, Salvete Omnes:


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Ice Hunter" <icehunter@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is it me, or is it in poor taste to thank someone who, in the last
day, has had his religious offices stripped from him?

Pompeia: As in "Thanks, and Happy Anniversary'You're outta here"?
Well, I certainly think, at very least, that this announcement could
have waited until after the games. It leaves new citizens/potential
citizens and casual observers wondering why we are dismissing or
'relieving' one of the founders being celebrated.... and on the
anniversary of NR's founding. Oh, I know there are longstanding
issues, some of which are valid concerns, but,... yeah.... something
about the timing on this one...... And he is being relieved of
duty..most of us know that this is hardly a *retirement* as such.

Plus the Aedile requested, more or less that official business could
be postponed during this time...presumably not to dampen our joy of
the ludi.


And this barely a week after Cincinnatua Augur suffered a similar
fate. I take no joy in this day. Perhaps it was believed to be the
only way to solve the CP stalemate, but proscriptions under any guise
are not pleasant to witness.

Pompeia: It was disturbing for me to read the following from NR Digest
3842:

"In this fresh Fe. 27th morning, everyone seems thinking to the recent
events that have affected Nova Roma. Flamen Cincinnatus, the
officiant, has been directly concerned, for he has been condemned by
a college of judges through a sentence formalized by Praetor
Curiatus. "

Pompeia: He was not condemned by a college of Judges (panel of
iudices). I was an alternate iudex conscripted to a decision in this
case, and it never got that far. The judges had no say in this at
all. Cincinnatus was sentenced by a Praetor, not the judges. He did
not show up for court, but he wasn't tried in absentia either.

Why does this stuff have to be mishmeshed in the games anyway? We are
asked to keep quiet to foster peace, keep away from the current
controversies, yet they are included in the ludi programs? And when
one reads accounts that are not *exactly* in alignment with facts, it
is hard to keep biting one's tongue.
>
> Valete bene,
> Artoria


Valete
Pompeia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55623 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete!:
We wish you all a happy Concordalia and 10th Anniversary.
Valete!.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa (still reading every post).
Decimus Cassius Lupus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:16 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY


> Bonam Faustam Concordialiam vobis opto! I wish all Quirites a
> joyous Concordialia, may Gn.Cornelius Lentulus sacerdos Concordiae
> celebrate 50 more!
> This is our 10th Anniversary, may our founding fathers live in our
> memories, may this day be always celebrated.
> optime valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
> Senatrix
> Questrix P. Memmio Albucio
> Scriba Censoris CFBM
> producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
>
> >
> > I announce you that Concordialia - the Tenth Birthday of Nova
> Roma is officialy started a few minutes ago, in Roman Time!
> >
> > Happy Concordialia!!!
> >
> > Happy 10th birthday to Nova Roma!!!
> >
> > Glory to those eldest citizens who are today here for 10 years!
> >
> > Thanks to our Patres Patriae, the Founding Fathers, M. Cassius
> Iulianus and Fl. Vedius Germanicus!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova
> Yahoo! Mail
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1305 - Release Date: 29/02/08
06:32 p.m.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55624 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
Salvete, omnes Novi Romani!
 
As the sun set here in Rome - and what a magnificent sunset it was - the time came for the Relighting of the Fire Ritual.
 
The preparation for this important ritual began well before sunset, when the Sacred Fire was allowed to go out. I timed it carefully as I stopped feeding the flames in the mid-afternoon. Gradually, the Sacred Fire dwindled as I made continous prayers to Vesta to avert all evil from Rome during the interval when the Sacred Hearth would be devoid of Her Presence. I did not extinguish the fire, but waited patiently until Vesta decided when the last flame should die and the last ember should dim into darkness.
 
I had to let the Sacred Hearth cool enough so I could begin the laborious task of cleaning it out thoroughly using only water from our Sacred Spring. Every bit of ash and soot was removed and the Sacred Hearth was dried and made ready to receive the Goddess once more.
 
By the Sacred Hearth, I placed a small table upon which rested a silver dish containing the Mola Salsa, a small silver bowl holding one bay laurel leaf and several leaves of thyme and a small bronze bowl filled with pieces of pinewood. Some of these pieces I placed in the center of the Sacred Hearth.
 
I left the Temple of Vesta and went to the garden of the Atrium Vestae and there I waited as dusk came upon Rome. In the last light of day, I prepared to start the new fire, which was made a tad more challenging as I had to make the fire within the confines of a very large, but mostly flat, bronze bowl, which is used only for this purpose.
 
I lifted a copper dish holding small pieces of pinewood and a copper bowl holding pine needles, which I had made sure were clean of all resin. I raised them upward and prayed, "Most Ancient One, may You be pleased with this wood and kindling that I now use to relight Your Sacred Fire."
 
I placed the dish and bowl next to the larger bronze bowl, which contained only two pieces of carefully selected pinewood to be used as the starter pieces. I stretched out my hands over the bronze bowl with palms downward and prayed, "Virgin Mother of Fire, may the work of my hands give You honor. Make Your Presence known in the new fire which, by Your Will, I now create."
 
Fortunately, after a few minutes of rubbing one stick very quickly between my palms while applying the right amount of pressure against the second piece of the starter wood, a wisp of smoke rose up. Gently, I blew at the base of the emerging fire while quickly adding the dry pine needles. A little orange glow quickly became visible inside the bowl. I then carefully added some of the small pieces of pinewood at just the right angles. The Sacred Fire crackled and spurted, but then it quieted down and burned well, praise Vesta!
 
The time came to go to the Temple. Before sunset, many women had crowded into the Temple of Vesta and were waiting patiently inside for my arrival. They stood motionless in the growing darkness, for the Temple has no windows and no torches are allowed inside and the only light came from the open door.
 
The Pontifices came to accompany me to the Temple. I saw Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, Marcus Moravius Piscinus and Quintus Caecilius Metellus, but not Gnaeus Salvius Astur. Sadly, he could not be with us and he was missed.
 
I wrapped a thick, damp cloth around the bronze bowl that contained the Sacred Fire and with the utmost care, I carried it the short distance to the Temple. There was no wind or breeze and the flames did not flicker. The Sacred Fire burned undisturbed. That was a good sign!
 
I came to the steps of the Temple and there my two dear friends, Aula Tullia Scholastica and Diana Octavia Aventina, awaited me. These kind women accompanied me up the steps, one on either side of me, and as they did, they gently lifted my stola up just enough so that I did not stumble on my way up as I carried the bowl, with the Sacred Fire inside, before me.
 
The Temple was filled to capacity, but the women had thoughtfully left an open path for me from the door to the Sacred Hearth. I stood before the threshold and the light from the Sacred Fire illuminated the faces of the women nearest the door. They smiled with joy at the sight of Vesta returning to Her Temple.
 
Before entering, I said to all present, "Vesta is the Heart of Rome, Mistress of the Hearth, the Sacred Flame present in every fire. She demands the greatest of respect, for a candle left unattended, a fire poorly lit, a firepit not properly kept, an uncleaned hearth - these are to be avoided. The perpetual flame in the Sacred Hearth of the Temple of Vesta represents the center of life in our city, our nation and our world. Her Fire makes sacred whatever place She dwells in and Her Presence can only be seen in the flame and felt in its warmth."
 
With the right foot first, I stepped over the threshold and entered the Temple with Scholastica and Aventina behind me. As the entrance faces east, once I reached the hearth, I circled around to the other side, so I faced east as well.
 
I raised the bronze bowl upward and prayed, "Great Mother of the Hearth, You Who hold power over all hearths and altars, look favorably upon Your Sacred Hearth now cleansed and prepared to receive Your Sacred Presence."
 
Slowly, I tilted the bowl slightly forward to let the Sacred Fire come to rest on the pinewood in the center. The Sacred Fire suddenly burned even more brightly. I knew at once Vesta was happy to be home. A joyous murmur went up from the women as the orange-yellow flames made shadows dance against the Temple's walls.
 
I handed the empty bronze bowl to priestess, Aventina. Then I raised my hands, palms upwards, and prayed, "Mighty yet gentle Vesta, be always present in Your Eternal Flame here in Your Sacred Hearth, where all come to pay You honor."
 
I took the bay laurel leaf and the thyme leaves and added them to the Sacred Fire as I prayed, "Guardian of the innermost things, everlasting Heart of Rome, Your Flame burns bright in Your Temple once more, for You are the Fire of Life that dwells within everything."
 
I took one of the Mola Salsa cakes and crumbled it in my hands. Then I sprinkled it over the fire as I prayed, "May this our sacrifice please You, Mother Vesta, and may You always be inclined towards our well-being."
 
I looked out at all who were present in the Temple and announced to them, "She whose Sacred Name seals oaths and who commands that Her priestesses speak nothing but the truth, is present once more in the Sacred Hearth of Her Holy Temple. Give honor to Vesta, all of Rome, for She is your Protectress!"
 
I distributed the rest of the Mola Salsa to the women as they approached, each in turn, the Sacred Hearth to make their silent supplications to Vesta. With the ritual thus concluded, everyone left the Temple of Vesta happy and content.
 
**********************
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
 
"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55625 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
I apologize for the poor quality of this post. For some reason, Yahoo will not send my emails without changing the fonts on some of the paragraphs. I seem to be having all sorts of problems this morning with my internet.
Again, I apologize to everyone.
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55626 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete,
 
Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of Love whom I represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to make. The Goddess Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova Roma. The mother of the Roman people has abandoned Nova Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are now orphans.
 
During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of Nova Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will return her favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor Modianus and Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never to return.  
 
Modianus has been wanting Cassius removed from office for at least 4 years. I have emails for the archives of the Boni list to prove this. Now together with Piscinus (who he teamed up with because they both hate Cincinnatus Augur and Cassius)-- they have succeeded in kicking out not only Cinncinatus Augur who has served NR from the first day of her founding BUT ALSO OUR FOUNDER, MARCUS CASSIUS JULIANUS. What is wrong with this picture???
 
Piscinus and Modianus have used their 'power' to get rid of people that dare to stand up to them. The Goddess Discordia is their Mistress and they serve her well. They are a plague in Nova Roma --a sickness that needs to be removed. The Praetores are in their pocket and pull made up laws out of their Illustrius asses just to suit Modianus and Piscinus. The Tribunes are incompetent or too weak to stand up to them.
 
And worst of all-- the 'mob' lets them get away with it. Are you Romans or wannabee keyboard warriors? Prove to the Gods that you deserve to call yourself a Roman. It is time to stand and fight before you are next on the Modianus-Piscinus hit list. But don't worry, I'll be thrown out before you are because I speak words of truth that are not blinded by ambition.
 
10 year anniversary? Concordialia? I spit at the misuse of Concordia and Her name. Today is the festival of Discordalia. It is a sad day. Nova Roma is cursed. 
 
Diana Octavia Aventina
Priestess of Venus
 
 
 
 
 
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55627 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Dear Tribuna Plauta,

> Interestingly enough, even though there was no senatus consultum,
> edict or law instituting the list, the person who created it never
> considered it a "private" list, and gave up ownership to the tribunes
> that came after him.

'Her' not 'him' Since I am the person that made that list, how would you
whether or not I considered it a private list? I also wrote the Tribune's
manual and 3 of the laws that map out how you Tribunes should do your job.

> I don't know what the practice was in the past, but we current
> tribunes consult each other before deciding to issue or not issue
> intercessio. All our decisions are taken collegially (except for times
> when some of us might be offline for a longer period), this way we can
> avoid the circus of intercessions and counter-intercessions that would
> ensue if we didn't.

That's nice Grasshopper, but it is also incorrect. You don't have to all
agree to issue an intercessio. In fact that is why there are 5 of you... The
Tribune should post his or her intercessio. The ones who agree or disagree
must post it as well. If only one other agrees and 3 don't post at all, the
intercessio holds.The people need to see that the Tribunes are working for
them. We want to see the circus of who upholds the intercessio (not
'counter-intercessio') and who does not. Otherwise it looks like you aren't
doing a damn thing.

> That's why it's incorrect to single out one of us for "dereliction of
> duty". An insult directed to Aquila is an insult directed to all of
> us.

No it is not. The Tribunes are not like a Board of Directors. We do not
refer to you in the singular. You are 5 different people and are meant to
act like 5 individuals.

<I just hope the other tribunes don't let
> their will to work for Nova Roma be taken away by the repeated attacks.

Hello??? This IS their only job-- to protect the little people from
injustice. To keep the big boys in line. The Tribunes have no other job than
that.

> I'm convinced that my duty as a tribune is to defend the rights and
> interests of the Nova Roman community and of Nova Roman citizens from
> possible abuses of power. But in case the rights and interests of one
> citizen conflict with those of the community I will always defend the
> latter.

And you'd be wrong. Your job is to defend the individual not all of Rome.

Vale,
Diana Octavia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55628 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Strong words, Diana Aventina! Oh how refreshing it is to see a REAL
founding tribune keep these new radicals in line, those elected
without a clue! Bene dixisti!

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Tribuna Plauta,
>
> > Interestingly enough, even though there was no senatus consultum,
> > edict or law instituting the list, the person who created it never
> > considered it a "private" list, and gave up ownership to the tribunes
> > that came after him.
>
> 'Her' not 'him' Since I am the person that made that list, how would
you
> whether or not I considered it a private list? I also wrote the
Tribune's
> manual and 3 of the laws that map out how you Tribunes should do
your job.
>
> > I don't know what the practice was in the past, but we current
> > tribunes consult each other before deciding to issue or not issue
> > intercessio. All our decisions are taken collegially (except for times
> > when some of us might be offline for a longer period), this way we can
> > avoid the circus of intercessions and counter-intercessions that would
> > ensue if we didn't.
>
> That's nice Grasshopper, but it is also incorrect. You don't have to
all
> agree to issue an intercessio. In fact that is why there are 5 of
you... The
> Tribune should post his or her intercessio. The ones who agree or
disagree
> must post it as well. If only one other agrees and 3 don't post at
all, the
> intercessio holds.The people need to see that the Tribunes are
working for
> them. We want to see the circus of who upholds the intercessio (not
> 'counter-intercessio') and who does not. Otherwise it looks like you
aren't
> doing a damn thing.
>
> > That's why it's incorrect to single out one of us for "dereliction of
> > duty". An insult directed to Aquila is an insult directed to all of
> > us.
>
> No it is not. The Tribunes are not like a Board of Directors. We do not
> refer to you in the singular. You are 5 different people and are
meant to
> act like 5 individuals.
>
> <I just hope the other tribunes don't let
> > their will to work for Nova Roma be taken away by the repeated
attacks.
>
> Hello??? This IS their only job-- to protect the little people from
> injustice. To keep the big boys in line. The Tribunes have no other
job than
> that.
>
> > I'm convinced that my duty as a tribune is to defend the rights and
> > interests of the Nova Roman community and of Nova Roman citizens from
> > possible abuses of power. But in case the rights and interests of one
> > citizen conflict with those of the community I will always defend the
> > latter.
>
> And you'd be wrong. Your job is to defend the individual not all of
Rome.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia Aventina
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55629 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st
Re: [Nova-Roma] Relighting the Fire Ritual - March 1st

 
A. Tullia Scholastica Maximae Valeriae Messallinae amicae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.



I apologize for the poor quality of this post. For some reason, Yahoo will not send my emails without changing the fonts on some of the paragraphs. I seem to be having all sorts of problems this morning with my internet.

    ATS:  Amica, it looks fine to me, but some other messages have come with the Yahoo sidebar pasted over the text.  Perhaps deleting the Yahoo stuff at the end of the messages might help with that.  Yahoo does change the size of the font, and sometimes the font itself, with no apparent justification, though perhaps it is getting ready to send some more messages to Pluto and beyond.  Some of mine don’t seem to have reached their targets.  
 
Again, I apologize to everyone.

    ATS:  No need; your ritual was most interesting, and very moving. Thank you very much for including me in this ceremony...something I never expected!  It’s quite an honor.
 
 
  
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 
Sacerdos Vestalis

Vale, et valete.  
 

     
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55624;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55630 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Kalendas Martias - Consules address.
Kalendas MARTIAS
MMDCCLXI a.u.c.
(1 March 2008 CE)
Ex Officio Consulares:

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus Consules:
Praetoribus, Tribunibus Plebis, Patribus Mátribusque Conscriptís,
Senatui Populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus, et viatoribus,
peregrinibus omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

Decimum Annum Anniversum bonum faustum felicem!

When we look with fondness back to Roma Antiqua we recall one Parilia
when Romulus, "the King grips the plough and marks the walls with a
furrow, a white cow and snowy bull bears the yoke" at the Founding of
the City of Rome. By the grace of Bona Fortuna, on that same festival
of Parilia was Numa born, the son of Postumnus, in the city of Cures.
Rex Numa Pompilius who would come to refound the City again, this
time by founding the religio Romana to create the Pax Deorum that
guided Rome to greatness. The City, they say, was founded again, many
times in fact, at the beginning of the Res Publica by Junius Brutus,
Valerius Poplicola, and Marcus Horatius, later, following the Gallic
sack, by Camillus Furius, who had so often saved Rome, and who might
justly stand beside other Founders of Rome, defeating the implacable
Veii, and the rapacious Gauls, in his fifth dictatorship intervened
into the conflict that arose between the Orders, imposing compromise
and vowing a Temple of Concordia to seal the bargain. In the four-
hundred and forty-ninth year of the City, was Rome refounded again by
Gnaeus Flavius, one man, through sheer will power and stubborn
determination, acted to set privilege aside and bring open government
to Rome, the likes of which remain a basic principle of freedom to
this day."He published the forms of civil law that had been hidden
away amongst the secret archives of the pontifices, and posted the
official calendar on white notice boards around the Forum." And on
22 July in that year he had the Pontifex Maximus reveal the formula
by which he dedicated the Temple of Concordia in the precinct of
Vulcanus. Out of struggle, compromise, and concord did Rome grow to
become the Mother City of Civilization. Then came Caesar, and
Augustus Caesar, and our philosopher Emperor Marcus Aurelius, and by
many others, too, was Rome founded again.

Then occurred a different sort of refounding of Rome. Not so much at
a location, but a place, a community, a civitas, a collection of
individuals who believed in an Ideal that is Rome. And they named
this civitas their Nova Roma. Ten years ago Roma resurgens was born.
And each time a new member becomes a Civis Novus Romanus, a Civis
Nova Romana, then is Nova Roma itself Reborn. Ours is a civitas, a
collection of individuals, each with our own conception of the Ideal
we call Nova Roma, changing, evolving with the loss of each citizen
and the welcome of another. While today we celebrate the Founding of
Nova Roma ten years ago, we look ten years hence to what Nova Roma
shall transform into as we Refound Nova Roma today and every day.

This year, our Tenth Anniversary Year, things shall be different.
Already the foundations begun seven years ago have been revamped to
make our finances more stable, more professionally organized thanks
to Censor Tiberius Galerius and our Curatrix Aerarium Equestria
Iunia, assisted by Senatores Marinus, Popillius, and Saturninus, and
with special thanks as well to Senator Marcus Minucius Audens. This
year, for the first time, Nova Roma shall be able to hand out an
academic scholarship. We shall be able to subscribe to JSTOR and
thereby provide something special for our Assidui. We shall see our
first Conventus in North America as we hold the annual Conventus
Europa, and look towards soon holding a conventus in South America as
well.

Nova Roma shall take the lead this year in a worldwide event to
celebrate Cerealia, the Feriae Latina, and Parilia. The celebration
shall be capped off by the rites of Jupiter Latiaris restored once
more atop Mont Albano, Latium. And in the Americas Jupiter Latiaris
shall be welcomed atop another sacred mount, Monte Alban, Mexico.
To these rights others shall join in ringing the globe in a
sequential, coordinated celebration lasting throughout the day,
beginning in Australia and Japan, crossing to China, India, through
Bactria and Mesopotamia where our commiles now hold the frontiers of
civilization, to Romania where my collega and bonus amicus, Titus
Iulius Sabinus, shall lead the rites for Jupiter Latiaris and
Concordia, across Europe, centered on Mont Albano, then across the
Atlantic to Brasilia and Argentina, up through high Peru and Mexico
to Texas where I shall also be performing the same ritual, across the
United States and Canada to Alaska and Hawaii before completing the
circuit one more in Australia.

What will make this event historic for Nova Roma is that others shall
join with us in these celebrations. The Roman Way of Austin, Texas,
shall play hostess to a Consul and a Praetor of Nova Roma, while they
will be joined by a Curator and other representatives of the Societas
Via Romana. Also joining with Nova Roma in the rites of Jupiter
Latiaris shall be the Clarian Temple and the Order of the Evening
Star in Philadelphia, the Sacred Grove of Egeria, Chapel Hill, NC,
congregations of Unitarians across the US, the Antonine Temples of
the Religio Romana in Seattle, Wa., and Los Angeles, Ca. Other groups
shall be joining in the rites atop Mont Albano, Italy. We hope, too,
to increase the number and diversity of participating groups and
organizations as we begin to publicize this event. This year, Nova
Roma will recommit to becoming a leader in the Restoration of the
Religio Romana. It shall take the lead in organizing the first ever,
worldwide event of the Religio Romana. Reorganizing, reforming, and
refounding its religious institutions this year, proclaiming the
Restoration of the Numa Tradition for Nova Roma, shall also restore
Nova Roma as the leading community of cultures Deorum in the world.
By our setting an example to others through our own practice of the
religio Romana, teaching others through the NRwiki site and Nova Roma
lists, establishing programs of instruction at Academia Thules, with
our sacerdotes performing public ritual and our rituals published as
the standard by which others will follow, Nova Roma shall re
establish itself as a unique community, home to cultores Deorum of
all kinds, and for gentiles Romani, along with our Jewish and
Christian and Muslim sorores et fratres Novi Romani.

Nova Roma shall also send a letter to the City Council of Roma,
Italy, notifying them of our intent to join in their celebration of
Parilia on 21 April. Through this means, Nova Roma will begin the
process being recognized as an associazione cultura in Italy, whereby
Nova Roma shall be able to found, or to support, its own legal entity
in Europe. By this means Nova Roma's European cultural association
can receive grants from the EU and participate more directly in
cultural events and archaeological projects like the Magna Mater
Project. Ten years as an established organization, Nova Roma will now
lay the foundation to adding a new dimension to its community.

Nova Roma has always had great potential to be something very
special. This is what has attracted each of us to Nova Roma, each
with our own vision of what that Ideal could become. This year will
be only a beginning, in many ways a refounding of Nova Roma, to a
bright future supporting cultural, social, educational, and religious
aspects in its own community while entering into the greater world,
joining with Roman enthusiasts everywhere, just as Roma antiqua once
became a leader among the Latin League. This transformation, this
reawakening and restoration of Nova Roma ,will come with the
recommitment of each of its Citizens to the Ideal they hold for Nova
Roma, and Nova Roma shall be refounded with each and every new
Citizen who are yet to join this our civitas that we call Nova Roma.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55631 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Poplicola,


> Strong words, Diana Aventina! Oh how refreshing it is to see a REAL
> founding tribune keep these new radicals in line, those elected
> without a clue! Bene dixisti!
> Poplicola

Thanks! A feel like a mother scolding her kids :-)

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55632 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CONCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
A. Tullia Scholastica Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

---Salve Artoria, Salvete Omnes:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ice Hunter" <icehunter@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is it me, or is it in poor taste to thank someone who, in the last
day, has had his religious offices stripped from him?

Pompeia:  As in "Thanks, and Happy Anniversary'You're outta here"?
Well, I certainly think, at very least, that this announcement could
have waited until after the games.

    ATS:  Yes.  Please be advised that the aedilician cohors is not privy to the deliberations of the CP, and since the original list was deleted, none of us appears to be on that list, whereas I was on the previous one for a brief, shining moment.  I also wish to be added as an observer to the new one.  Lentulus had no idea that this devastating  announcement would be so graciously timed as to coincide with the ceremony of Concordialia.  


 It leaves new citizens/potential
citizens and casual observers wondering why we are dismissing or
'relieving' one of the founders being celebrated.... and on the
anniversary of NR's founding.

    ATS:  Indeed it does.  As you may be aware, we already have quite a bit of confusion among some on the New Roman list simply due to the legal proceedings.  The pontifical ones are even more obscure.  


Oh, I know there are longstanding
issues, some of which are valid concerns, but,... yeah.... something
about the timing on this one...... And he is being relieved of
duty..most of us know that this is hardly a *retirement* as such.

    ATS:  Exactly.  Moreover, if I read the resolution correctly, Cassius is not only being removed as PM, but also as pontifex, though that has been denied.  

Plus the Aedile requested, more or less that official business could
be postponed during this time...presumably not to dampen our joy of
the ludi.

And this barely a week after Cincinnatus Augur suffered a similar
fate.  

    ATS:  Well, if I understand matters correctly, a provocatio ad populum has been made, and will begin on the first dies comitialis (Monday, I believe).  Thus Cincinnatus has not been deprived of his offices...yet.  His very citizenship hangs in the balance in the next trial, in which Piscinus is the plaintiff (actor).  


I take no joy in this day.  Perhaps it was believed to be the
only way to solve the CP stalemate, but proscriptions under any guise
are not pleasant to witness.

    ATS:  Indeed not.  Just possibly there are better ways.  

Pompeia: It was disturbing for me to read the following from NR Digest
3842:

"In this fresh Fe. 27th morning, everyone seems thinking to the recent
events that have affected Nova Roma. Flamen Cincinnatus, the
officiant, has been directly concerned, for he has been condemned by
a college of judges through a sentence formalized by Praetor
Curiatus. "

Pompeia:  He was not condemned by a college of Judges (panel of
iudices).  I was an alternate iudex conscripted to a decision in this
case, and it never got that far.  

    ATS:  Certainly not.  There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on this issue.  No case was presented, thus no instructions to the jury (other than the formula), and no verdict was rendered by a jury.  The formula states the contemplated punishment, but no one seemed to notice just what was included in that.  The tribunes didn’t, the people didn’t, and perhaps the jury didn’t.  


The judges had no say in this at
all.  Cincinnatus was sentenced by a Praetor, not the judges. He did
not show up for court, but he wasn't tried in absentia either.

    ATS:  No, he wasn’t.  Provocatio has been made, however, so let us see how this comes out.  IMHO, the penalties are way out of line with the provocation in any case; when an athlete or sports team doesn’t show up for a scheduled match, s/he/they forfeit(s) the match, but that is a little different from appearing in court, especially with such high stakes.  The penalties in the formula itself were not light, but if memory serves, they were less severe than those requested by the actor.  Cincinnatus does not appear to be perfectly innocent in this, but there are many other issues involved, not least is the connection between the praetores and the actor, who has the power to dismiss them as scribae and to keep them out of the Senate at the conclusion of their terms.  

Why does this stuff have to be mishmeshed in the games anyway? We are
asked to keep quiet to foster peace, keep away from the current
controversies, yet they are included in the ludi programs?  And when
one reads accounts that are not *exactly* in alignment with facts, it
is hard to keep biting one's tongue.
>
> Valete bene,
> Artoria

Valete
Pompeia
>

 Vale, et valete.
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55600;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55633 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: IUDICIO M.MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: APPOINTED IUDICES
Ex Officio Praetoris M. Curiatius
 
Salvete

the appointed Iudices for the Trial of M.Moravius Vs. L. Equitius are:

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Marianus Adrianus Sarus, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus

According the rules of Nova Roma, Marianus Adrianus Sarus, within the 36 hours after the issued Formula, asked for the exemption and I allowed it.

 
Four of the appointed iudices have join the list NovaRomaTribunalis and the other five were invited to join.

 
Member Invite Summary
Total invited:  5
Already members:  4
Total:  9
Member Invite Details
Members invited:
tvogel@...
vedius@...
KILIKA143@...
famila.ulleria.venii@...
c_arminius_reccanellus@...

Already members:
spqr753@...
rory12001@...
cn_corn_lent@...
sceptia@...

Instead of Marianus Adrianus Sarus let Franciscus Apulus Caesar be iudex.

The selected alternate Iudices are:

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Titus Arminius Genialis
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Caius Curius Saturninus
Marcus Lucretius Agricola
Lucius Salix Cicero

Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Tertia, IX B:

"A citizen thus appointed to a court shall be able to ask for an exemption from that judicial work if there are factors that do not allow him to serve in that position. The praetor must be asked for that exemption within thirty-six (36) hours of the official announcement of that appointment; the praetor shall grant that exemption at his own discretion, or he shall deny it, thus forcing the appointed iudex to serve or face an accusation of contempt."
 
All appointed iudices, all alternate iudices, actor, reus and advocates must be presents at the opening of the trial next March 3rd.
 

This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under my hand this 2nd  day of  March ,2008 C.E.

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
 
 
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55634 From: Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: CONCORDIALIA - Report of the Ceremony
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus sacerdos Concordialis et leg. pr. pr. Quiritibus SPD
 
 
Quirites!
 
CONCORDIALIA HAS BEEN DONE!
 
This was a very long and busy day for me, and for the Pannonians! But we have done the Sacrifice: as I have written in the morning.
 
And the good news: we could video record the whole ceremony!!!
 
Now we will be working that it can be seen on the internet, too.
 
You all were with us in this ceremony, and we thought you will see us.
 
I wait when you will see the ceremony and I can hear your opinion!
 
 
Right now, I announce my special thanks to those all who followed the events and read the written version of the Concordialia rituals.
 
Thanks to Ullerius Venator for his heartfelt odes, especially for the Carmen Decennale "Rome To New Rome"!
 
You can read again them within the entire Ceremony post:


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> ha scritto:
CN CORNELIUS LENTULUS : SACERDOS CONCORDIAE : QUIRITIBUS : S P D
 
 
Salvete et avete, Novi Romani Quirites!
 
 
Vivat Nova Roma!
 
 
The Sacred Year of Concordia and 10th Anniversary of Nova Roma has reached its culmination: the Concordialia. This day is when everything was started - because of which we can be here: today, 10 years ago, Nova Roma was founded, a nation was born.
 
This nation wants a common goal: to restore Rome. But to this goal, we have to work efficiently, cooperatively, with united force, common spirit, with one will and one faith. Therefore we chose to worship Goddes Concordia, the Goddess of the Nova Roman People's Concord - She is whom we need first and foremost in this 10-years-old Republic.
 
Citizens of Nova Roma... I know we have many conflicts, frustrations, anger, pain. But we are still here: so we still want something with each other. We want Rome to revive. The way we have been walked and which caused these infinite flamewars isn't viable any more. It failed. From now, we must start thinking about each other as friends and comrades if we really want anything with this association. Our new way cannot be other than the way of cohesion and concordance. This day is here to remind you of that. This is the message of Concordialia: our new beginning.
 
When you read this e-mail, the rituals of the Concordialia Ceremony aren't yet started. We will make the ceremony around 12:00. However, I had to post this to you so that you can know what happens today in Aquincum (Budapest) of Pannonia. The place is Pannonia, but the ceremony is of and for all Nova Roma.
 
I hope, seeing my efforts, you will think Nova Roma is worthy to our most serious dedication and work and you will be inspired by this spirit: the ceremony will be video recorded and you will be able to see the sacrifice within a week (we have to digitalize it).
 
Below you can find the texts of the ceremony and the rituals. The "Carmen Decennale" and the "Concordialia Hymn" by Ullerius Ventor, our dearest poet. Let's thank him again for these beautiful verses! I think it's also nice to him to see his poems recited on the other side of the world! With this act, we imitate the Ludi Saeculares during Augustus, when Horace's "Carmen Saeculare" was recited by a chorus. We also try it to perform with a chorus.
 
During the whole ceremony, the Legio XXI Rapax will decorate the celebration.
 
1. DECLARATION
 
The ceremony of the Concordialia begins with the reading out the Declaration.
 
2. SPEECH
 
That follows my speech to the Pannonians with the message of the Consul T. Iulius Sabinus. This speach is especially for the Pannonians, therefore I don't copy it here.
 
3. CHORUS OF THE CARMEN DECENNALE
 
After the speech, the chorus of young men and women will recite the Carmen Decennale, the ode of the 10th Anniversary, written by Ullerius Venator, exclusively for the 10th Anniversary of Nova Roma:
 
 
CARMEN DECENNALE
by St. Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
 
"Rome To New Rome"
 
Rome
People
Of seven hills
Of riverÂ’s side and farmerÂ’s field
Pastoral folk
Became
More
Men
Of clans
Did form their tribes
To secure land and folkways, too
Chose their leaders
Made laws
Thrived
Gods
Looked down
Upon this place
Gave Their notice and lent an ear
To voices raised
In praise
Clear
World
Became
Aware of Rome
Their wealth, their aims, their strength of arm
Some opposed them
Others
Not
Years
Did pass
And history
Saw rise of Rome and then a fall
When city slept
Paused for
Time
Dark
Was called
This dreaming time
As world wore on and learned again
To climb to light
Clearly
See
Fresh
Eyes looked
Upon the past
Felt in their hearts a call to build
Upon a base
Roman
Still
New
The thoughts
Set in motion
By stories old, traditions proud
Philosophies
Virtues
Too
Full
Ten years
Have passed by since
The work begun; build Rome anew
With high hopes and
Faithful
Words
In
This work
Are many hands
Widespread across this world of ours
All bound by one
Ideal
Grand
More
Than this
The People grew
By gens and class, they took their names
They gave their thoughts
And their
Skills
To
Rebuild
Rome as place to be
To live, to grow, to celebrate
To write, to sing
Holy
Words
Like
The old
Ageless city
New RomeÂ’s forum did welcome all
To come and join
Speak their
Piece
Men
Women
Have come and gone
Some quietly, others quite loud
They all made mark
They all
Helped
For
All did
In their own way
Show Roman pride and spirit bold
Filled the Annals
CityÂ’s
Tales
Few
Have been
The fallow days
Unfilled by strife, both good and bad
Any effort
Will make
Such
Now
We pause
To look at this
Nova Roma, our city fair
SheÂ’s still quite young
Promise
Filled
 
 
 
4. SACRIFICE TO CONCORDIA POPULI NOVI ROMANI QUIRITIUM
 
After the chorus, the sacrificial part of the ceremony of Concordia begins. I will pray the following prayer, with assisting citizens:
 
SACRIFICIUM CONCORDIAE KALENDIS MARTIIS DIE FESTIVISSIMO SACRI ANNIVERSARII X NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE
 
Favete linguis!
 
(Beginning of the sacrifice.)
 
PRAEFATIO
 
Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium, 
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
hisce Kalendis Martiis anni decimi Novae Romae conditae,
hoc die festivissimo et sanctissimo Novae Romae conditae,
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium, mihi, domo, familiae!
 
(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)
 
Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium, 
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto!"
 
(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO
 
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia deorum et mortalium, 
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
fortitudo et firmitas nostra,
hisce Kalendis Martiis anni decimi Novae Romae conditae,
hoc die festivissimo et sanctissimo quo Nova Roma condita est,
te precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque constantem societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat, utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris; utique sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!
 
SACRIFICIUM
 
Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis,
uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc libo libando,
hoc vino lacte melleque mixto libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
et hoc anno anniversario decimo Novae Romae conditae et semper
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!
 
(Libation of libum and wine is made and incense is sacrificed.)
 
REDDITIO
 
Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium, 
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
uti te ture commovendo et vino libando bonas preces bene precatus sum, earundem rerum ergo macte vino inferio esto!
 
(Libation of wine is made)
 
Ilicet!
 
(End of the sacrifice.)
 
PIACULUM
 
Iane,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime,
Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.
 
(Libation of wine is made.)
 
 
 
5. CONCORDIALIA HYMN
 
After the sacrifice, a chosen one will recite the Concordialia Hymn, written by Ullerius Venator, in last December, when the idea of the Sacred Year of Concordia came forward at first. This beautiful poem closes the ceremony of Concordia.
 
 
CONCORDIALIA HYMN
by St. Ullerius Venator Piparbarbus
 
"Concordance: A Poetic Offering"

In the shadow                     
of the forum
Stands a temple                   white and gleaming
Stately columns                   carved of marble
Sculptured portals              crafted in bronze

In the lamplight                   of the fanum
Stands a statue                    o'er the altar
Face is kindly                       beatific
Inviting all                            to her embrace

Crowds are bustling           scurry, hurry
'Round this building           looked at, unseen
Inside the hall                      it is silent
Save for the few                  who tend the shrine

Each and ev'ry                     man and woman
Has opinion                         has a good plan
Of what to build                  what to discard
Of what is right                    and what is wrong

As all are free                       owning themselves
No one nay says                 their right to speak
Their piece of mind             their argument
However wrought               within their hearts

Comes a young man           full of promise
To the city                            roaring its life
Sees a need to                     calm the hubbub
Desires to                             set a new tone

Comes the young man       to the temple
Reads the words                 above its door
Come pass within               and join together
Then pass without              and remember

Comes to young man         curious thought
He steps inside                    alone he stands
Sees the statue                    walks towards it
Stops at altar                        looks around

Reads the young man        all inscriptions
Learns the Name                 of deity
Honored here                       in the naos
Concordia                             he knows Her call

On the altar                          is a brazier
Gently smoking                   wafting high
From a coffer                        he takes incense
Thinks deep a bit                makes offering

He dedicates                        himself to Her
And pledges true                  his will to help
Bring calmness to               city's discourse
Bring amity                           to hearts of all

How to do this                     what will he say
To help his fellow               Romans to see
That difference                    of opinion
Need not be the                   mother of strife

By example                           he will show way
To disagree                          but remain calm
To see the goal                    of building well
So Republic                          will grow and live

So the young man               offered himself
As acolyte                            to concordance
With cheerful heart             and cheerful words
He set to work                     to forge new bonds

In the shadow                      of the forum
Stands a temple                   white and gleaming
Stately columns                   carved of marble
Sculptured portals              crafted in bronze

In the lamplight                   of the fanum
Stands a statue                    o'er the altar
Face is kindly                       beatific
Inviting all                            to her embrace
 
 
 
6. PANNONIA CELEBRATES CONCODIALIA, THE BIRTHDAY OF NOVA ROMA
 
After the central and common ceremony, I will conduct Pannonia's sacrifice, too. But this is another issue, and I will send the Pannonian ritual in a separate message.
 
 
VIVAT NOVA ROMA ANNORUM X!
VIVAT NOVA ROMA FELICITER!
CONCORDIA NOS ADIUVET!
 
LONG LIVE THE 10-YEARS-OLD NOVA ROMA!
MAY NOVA ROMA HAVE A GLORIOUS FUTURE!
MAY CONCORDIA BLESS US!
 
 
VALETE IN CONCORDIA, QUIRITES!
 
 


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilium Curulium P. Memmii Albucii et Sex. Lucilii Tutoris
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
------------ --------- --------- --------- ----
Decurio I. Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55635 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete quirites,
it is a sad happening if Venus has indeed left Nova Roma.
However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy to further
one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged episode of
divination.
Before believing Diana Aventina I'll wait and see what other
sacerdotes say: if I remember well we have at least one other sacerdos
of Venus.
I also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a partner, to
pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign that Venus
has derelicted them, and please report it to the main list.
If it turns out that really everybody's love life has been suddenly
disrupted, probably the matter should be deliberated upon by the
Collegium Pontificum, which seems to work a bit more efficiently nowadays.
Personally I don't feel very orphaned, I always liked Minerva better
anyway.
I am also happy to remark that none of the other Gods seem to have
manifested their displeasure for the removal of a Pontifex Maximus who
didn't do his job or an Augur who was bent to keeping a closed forum
so that he could talk to himself at his heart's wish.

Optime valete omnes,
L. Livia Plauta


>
> Salvete,
>
> Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of Love whom I
represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to make. The Goddess
Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova Roma. The mother of the Roman
people has abandoned Nova Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are now
orphans.
>
> During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of Nova
Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will return her
favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor Modianus and
Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never to
return.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55636 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Octavia Aventina,

I'm sorry, I was under the (obviously wrong) impression that it was a
male tribune who founded the list. Anyway I now see that it has to be
added to the list of thing to thank you for. I alreadly thanked you
for the manual, which has been very useful to me, but probably my
thanks passed unnoticed in the daily flood of posts at the beginning
of the year. So I take the occasion to thank you again.
I deduced that the founder didn't consider it a private list by the
fact that they didn't retain ownership, and they weren't even
subscribed to the list.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Tribuna Plauta,
>
> > Interestingly enough, even though there was no senatus consultum,
> > edict or law instituting the list, the person who created it never
> > considered it a "private" list, and gave up ownership to the tribunes
> > that came after him.
>
> 'Her' not 'him' Since I am the person that made that list, how would
you
> whether or not I considered it a private list? I also wrote the
Tribune's
> manual and 3 of the laws that map out how you Tribunes should do
your job.
>

>
> That's nice Grasshopper, but it is also incorrect. You don't have to
all
> agree to issue an intercessio. In fact that is why there are 5 of
you... The
> Tribune should post his or her intercessio. The ones who agree or
disagree
> must post it as well. If only one other agrees and 3 don't post at
all, the
> intercessio holds.The people need to see that the Tribunes are
working for
> them. We want to see the circus of who upholds the intercessio (not
> 'counter-intercessio') and who does not. Otherwise it looks like you
aren't
> doing a damn thing.

Thanks for exposing again how the intercessio works for the sake of
all the new citizens who are reading.
You want to see the circus? Ohh, sorry, I didn't know our role was to
entertain! In this period I think we've had enough circus, what with
all the ludi, and other events. But I'll keep this in mind, and maybe
in some "dead" period we tribunes will organize a good little
"intercessio circus" for people to enjoy. Don't let it be said that we
tribunes didn't perform our duty of buffoons!


>
> > That's why it's incorrect to single out one of us for "dereliction of
> > duty". An insult directed to Aquila is an insult directed to all of
> > us.
>
> No it is not. The Tribunes are not like a Board of Directors. We do not
> refer to you in the singular. You are 5 different people and are
meant to
> act like 5 individuals.

Yes, we are 5 individuals who act in concordia. It looks as if the
concept is even more foreign to some people than I thought.


>
> > I'm convinced that my duty as a tribune is to defend the rights and
> > interests of the Nova Roman community and of Nova Roman citizens from
> > possible abuses of power. But in case the rights and interests of one
> > citizen conflict with those of the community I will always defend the
> > latter.
>
> And you'd be wrong. Your job is to defend the individual not all of
Rome.
>
Hmmm, and who do you think Nova Roma is made of, if not individuals? I
reiterate: if I have to choose between defending one individual and
defending all the other individuals I will choose the latter.

Optime vale,
L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55637 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Concordialia: 10 anos de Nova Roma
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS CIVIBUS BRASILIAE PROVINCIAE SPD
 
Hoje, dia 1º de março de 2008, é dia de festa em Nova Roma, feriado oficial decretado pelo Senado!
 
Há exatos dez anos, os Patres Patriae redigiam a Declaraçáo de independëncia de Nova Roma, feito considerado o ato de fundaçáo de nossa associaçáo e de criaçáo de uma nova naçáo independente e soberana.
 
É claro que de lá para ca muita coisa mudou. Muito do que eles originalmente propuseram náo deu certo, mas muito está sendo conquistado pouco a pouco.
 
Nova Roma é hoje uma realidade. Tem centenas de cidadáos ativos em todo o mundo, todos estudando e praticando a cultura, as virtudes e o modo de vida romanos.
 
Acredito seriamente que a partir de agora se iniciará uma nova etapa na história de Nova Roma. Até agora, pudemos nos conhecer melhor, compreender os verdadeiros significados, objetivos e motivaçóes de nossa naçáo; os desafios, dificuldades e os caminhos para conquistar avanços na implantaçáo desses objetivos.  Nos próximos anos, acredito que começarems a experimentar ao maximo o que Nova Roma pode nos ofecrecer, e fazë-la crescer cada vez mais.
 
Mas, para isso, devemos todos nos unir. Nova Roma foi fundada no dia da Deusa Concordia, e é pensando nela que devemos nos guiar nesse caminho. Concórdia é paz, harmonia, uniáo com sabedoria. É o que toda sociedade precisa para progredir com sucesso.
 
E essa nova etapa de Nova Roma também deve ser a da integraçáo local. Os cidadáos precisam pör em prática projetos de atividades e de divulgaçáo provinciais.
 
E por isso eu clamo a todos os cidadáos brasileiro, para que nos unamos. Que revisemos os projetos que haviam sido propostos ano passado e recomecemos o trabalho que estava indo táo bem. Vamos resgatar a força de vontade que demonstramos por vários meses, e vamos fazer a Provincia Brasileira em Nova Roma forte e frutifera!
 
Rogo a Concordia Deusa que esteja sempre persente em nossas vidas e ilumine o caminho que devemos seguir.
 
Aos cidadáos brasileiros de Nova Roma, peço que reflitam nos proximos dias sobre o que querem para Nova Roma. Como pensam que Nova Roma pode ser, que tipo de sociedade desejam que se desenvolva a partir do nosso trabalho, e como podemos fazer para atingi-la.
 
Em Osasco, na Provincia Brasilia, as calendas de março do ano consular de M. Moravius e T. Iulius, décimo de Nova Roma, festa de Marte,.feriado de Concordia.
 
TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
Quaestor
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae
Interpres Linguae Lusitanicae
Scriba Censoris KFBM
tagenialis@...

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55638 From: vallenporter Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete

Well hmmm I am getting a lot of Good Omens.even my lovelife this am is
doing very well,all of my household is doing well.
someone( not a novaromai { but a paganrecon of a another path}) give
me a whole lamb,5 lb of Incense(Omani frankincense,Somaliai Myrrh)

others things too long to list ,when I have more time i will post again

valete

Marcus Cornelius Felix
Sacerdos Templi Mercurius





> Salvete,
>
> Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of Love whom I
represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to make. The Goddess
Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova Roma. The mother of the Roman
people has abandoned Nova Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are now
orphans.
>
> During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of Nova
Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will return her
favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor Modianus and
Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never to
return.
>
> Modianus has been wanting Cassius removed from office for at least 4
years. I have emails for the archives of the Boni list to prove this.
Now together with Piscinus (who he teamed up with because they both
hate Cincinnatus Augur and Cassius)-- they have succeeded in kicking
out not only Cinncinatus Augur who has served NR from the first day of
her founding BUT ALSO OUR FOUNDER, MARCUS CASSIUS JULIANUS. What is
wrong with this picture???
>
> Piscinus and Modianus have used their 'power' to get rid of people
that dare to stand up to them. The Goddess Discordia is their Mistress
and they serve her well. They are a plague in Nova Roma --a sickness
that needs to be removed. The Praetores are in their pocket and pull
made up laws out of their Illustrius asses just to suit Modianus and
Piscinus. The Tribunes are incompetent or too weak to stand up to them.
>
> And worst of all-- the 'mob' lets them get away with it. Are you
Romans or wannabee keyboard warriors? Prove to the Gods that you
deserve to call yourself a Roman. It is time to stand and fight before
you are next on the Modianus-Piscinus hit list. But don't worry, I'll
be thrown out before you are because I speak words of truth that are
not blinded by ambition.
>
> 10 year anniversary? Concordialia? I spit at the misuse of Concordia
and Her name. Today is the festival of Discordalia. It is a sad day.
Nova Roma is cursed.
>
> Diana Octavia Aventina
> Priestess of Venus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55639 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: CONCORDIALIA - 10 AÑOS DE NOVA ROMA
MARCVS IVLIVS SEVERVS PRAETOR PROVINCIA MEXICO OMNIBVS CIVIBVS SALVTEM PLVRIMAM DICIT:
 
Hoy, día 1 de marzo de 2008,  a.d. VI non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A.V.C., 2761 de la fundación de Roma, es un día de fiesta en Nova Roma, decretado por el Senado.
Hace exactamente 10 años, los Patres Patriae dieron a conocer la Declaración de Independencia de Nova Roma, acto fundacional de nuestra Res publica y primer paso hacia la constitución de una nación independiente y soberana, a partir de la asociación internacional que somos hoy en día.
El camino es largo y ha sido difícil. Mucho de lo que los Patres Patriae se propusieron, ha sido logrado poco a poco y con esfuerzo. Y mucho más está por hacer.
Pero Nova Roma es ya una realidad, con centenares de ciudadanos activos en todo el mundo, dedicados a cultivar, estudiar, promover y practicar la cultura, las virtudes éticas y la forma de vida de los antiguos romanos, nuestros ancestros espirituales. 
Podemos tener la certeza de que a partir de este día, el de nuestro décimo aniversario, se iniciará una nueva etapa en la historia de Nova Roma. Con el paso de los años hemos podido conocer mejor y comprender el verdadero significado de la existencia de nuestra Res publica, sus ideales, propósitos y objetivos; los desafíos y las dificultades que nos aguardan y el camino de que debemos seguir para alcanzar nuestras metas.
Tengamos la seguridad de que en los años por venir, disfrutaremos en mayor medida lo que Nova Roma puede ofrecernos y la haremos crecer cada día más.
Para ello, debemos estar unidos sin reservas, sin malos entendidos, sin resentimientos. Nova Roma fue fundada en el día de la Diosa Concordia y ella debe guiar nuestras acciones y nuestras decisiones. Concordia y paz, armonía, unión con sabiduría. Esto es lo que toda sociedad necesita para progresar y consolidarse.
Esta nueva etapa de Nova Roma también debe ser de consolidación en nuestra provincia. Los ciudadanos necesitan llevar a cabo proyectos de actividades permanentes, productivas, gratificantes y bien cimentadas en su vida cotidiana. Conozcámonos mejor, interactuemos, dediquemos tiempo a nuestra participación.
México es un país muy grande y los ciudadanos novorromanos estamos distribuidos prácticamente por todo su territorio. Fomentemos la creación de comunidades locales y aprovechemos las ventajas de la internet para estrechar vínculos y trabajar conjuntamente.
Pido por ello a todos los ciudadanos novorromanos de la Provincia México que nos unamos. Que propongamos proyectos, a partir de los más sencillos y con la mira puesta en los mayores.
Rescatemos la fuerza de voluntad que en algunos momentos se ha manifestado y hagamos de la Provincia México una parte activa y vital de Nova Roma.
Ruego a la Diosa Concordia que esté siempre presente en nuestras vidas e ilumine el camino que debamos seguir.
A todos los ciudadanos de la Provincia México , les pido que reflexionen durante los próximos días sobre lo que desean de y para Nova Roma. Cómo la imaginan, qué tipo de sociedad desean que surja y se consolide a través del trabajo conjunto y cómo podemos alcanzar los mejores resultados.
 
En la ciudad de México, Provincia México de Nova Roma, en las calendas de marzo del año consular de M. Moravius y T. Iulius, décimo de la Res publica, fiesta de Marte y fiesta de la Concordia.


M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55640 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-01
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Why is the Goddess of Love interested in politics all of a sudden? Why haven't the other gods lost favour with us?
 
Why would you invoke the goddess, Discord, in the subject title? Are you trying to invite more chaos to our community?
 
How can we be sure that this is really a vision from the goddess and not your way of forcing us to submit to your agenda? Can another priestess confirm that Venus dislikes Nova Roma?
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY

During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of Nova Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will return her favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates- - Censor Modianus and Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never to return.  
.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55641 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salvete,

Love life seems okay, but, I did lose my job today...hmmmm...

Valete,
Triarius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete quirites,
> it is a sad happening if Venus has indeed left Nova Roma.
> However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy to further
> one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged episode of
> divination.
> Before believing Diana Aventina I'll wait and see what other
> sacerdotes say: if I remember well we have at least one other
sacerdos
> of Venus.
> I also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a partner, to
> pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign that
Venus
> has derelicted them, and please report it to the main list.
> If it turns out that really everybody's love life has been suddenly
> disrupted, probably the matter should be deliberated upon by the
> Collegium Pontificum, which seems to work a bit more efficiently
nowadays.
> Personally I don't feel very orphaned, I always liked Minerva better
> anyway.
> I am also happy to remark that none of the other Gods seem to have
> manifested their displeasure for the removal of a Pontifex Maximus
who
> didn't do his job or an Augur who was bent to keeping a closed forum
> so that he could talk to himself at his heart's wish.
>
> Optime valete omnes,
> L. Livia Plauta
>
>
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of Love whom I
> represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to make. The
Goddess
> Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova Roma. The mother of the
Roman
> people has abandoned Nova Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are now
> orphans.
> >
> > During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of Nova
> Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will return
her
> favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor Modianus
and
> Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never
to
> return.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55642 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve Marcella;
I am sacerdos to Dea Mens: Mind, Thought, which is really an aspect
of Venus
you can read more here:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Mens
There is nothing to worry about. First Venus is called Genetrix,
Mother, because she is the mother of Aeneas and thus the Mother of
the Roman people. And secondly the Roman gods don't curse Romans;
never did.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus


Whatever Diana's visions and experience is, it is definitely neo-
pagan and not Roman, and I will explain.

In Roman state religion there was no place for personal visions of
the gods. Roman officials looked to omens, good and bad, and
prodigies.

A bad omen could be lightning striking a tree in a sacred grove; or
a missing lobe of a liver during the inspection while sacrificing
and then you would perform a piaculum for the grove and for the
sacrifice, keep sacrificing until the liver & other signs were
normal,signifiyig the sacrifice was accepted.

A prodigy would be something really bad, monstrous; let's say a two-
headed calf being born near Rome. A magistrate would hear of it,
worry, and bring it to the Senate. Then the Senate would decide
whether to recognize the prodigy or not. If not, everything was
fine. If they decided it was a bad prodigy. Then they might have the
Quindecemviri look into the Sibylline Books or ask the Augurs what
it meant.

So you see the state had a lot of safeguards and would restore the
Pax Deorum when they felt things were awry.

A ceremony like the Concordialia when there was so much tumult, is a
very Roman response. In effect saying, 'Dea Concordia we Romans need
your help to repair relations between Romans'.

So I hope I have explained things, clearly and that Alma
(Nourishing) Venus would never behave that way.
bene vale in pacem Concordiae
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis


Can another priestess confirm that Venus dislikes Nova Roma?
>
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Aventina
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:49 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
>
>
>
> During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of
Nova Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will
return her favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor
Modianus and Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their
crimes, never to return. .
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55643 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY

Salve Triari,

 

I’m very sorry to hear that. My wife lost her job last year so I have some idea what you are going through. May good fortune return swiftly to you and your house.

 

Vale optime bene.

 

C. Aemilius Crassus.

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55644 From: sstevemoore Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve, Hortensia Maior,

Gratias ago tibi for your clear and reasoned response to the Venus
question. I was surprised to hear a sacerdos declaring that one of our
deities had abandoned us. I hope that the CP will look into this
distasteful public statement.

I'd also like to thank you for the latest podcast. It was a delight! I
can't get enough of listening to Virgil.

Vale,
M. Valerius Potitus

Tuta erit vobis Velia.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55645 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:

> I also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a partner, to
> pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign that
>Venus
> has derelicted them, and please report it to the main list.

No change there, though several weeks ago a statue of Venus in my
altar fell and broke into three pieces. I didn't think anything of it
at the time, I thought maybe a child or cat knocked it down. I'm not
saying they're related but it is an odd coincidence.

As for Maior's point about these being individual prodigies, well, we
don't have temples or properties where signs can be seen. They would
possibly manifest themselves to various senators, magistrates or
sacredotes.

> Personally I don't feel very orphaned, I always liked Minerva better
> anyway.
> I am also happy to remark that none of the other Gods seem to have
> manifested their displeasure for the removal of a Pontifex Maximus
>who didn't do his job or an Augur who was bent to keeping a closed
>forum so that he could talk to himself at his heart's wish.

Let's not confuse what you said above as the real reasons for the
actions of late. Those were pretexts to get rid of people that some
people didn't like. They wanted to get rid of them, and thought of
ways to do it. Granted, the Pontifex Maximus gave them *some*
ammunition but the case against Cincinnatus was completely spurious.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55646 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Piece of Nova Roman history
Salvete,

Going through some files last night, I ran across this piece of
history (below). It is one of the first advertisements for Nova Roma,
that I was posting on various pagan newsgroups during the days after
the Founding. I will try to post a few other early tidbits during the
next two days.

Valete,

Palladius

----------------------------------------------------------
From amcgrath@... Mon Mar 9 02:18:13 1998
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:15:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Decius Iunius Palladius <amcgrath@...>
To: Sebas <sebas@...>
Subject: Roman Pagan Religious and Secular State



Salvete!

This is to let you all know about Nova Roma, a revival of the Roman
Republic on a small scale, a micro scale really, under the auspices of
Micronations. This is an attempt to rebuild the culture and religion
of ancient Rome in as practical a way as possible, including
establishing institutions so that the state cults may be revived
again as well, something central to Roman Paganism.

Nova Roma is dedicated to the revival of classical Roman religion,
arts, and culture. Our emphasis is on the historically accurate
revival of the Religio Romana, with modern interpolations only where
the primary sources are silent, and with nods to modern sensibilities
when absolutely necessary. If you are interested in Classical Roman
religion, mythology, and culture, please feel free to visit our web
site at http://www.novaroma.org


Valete!


Decius Iunius Palladius

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------


Non scholae sed vitae discimus.

Seneca


----------------------------------------------------------------------
------

"Such things have often happened and still happen,
and how can these be signs of the end of the world?"

Julian, Emperor of Rome 361-363 A.D.
Extant 331-363 A.D.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55647 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Certamen historicum Ludi Conditorum - Historical quiz about Nova Rom
Salvete omnes

It has just passed 6pm Rome time, and here are the answers to the
second stage of the contest.

MONEY ContdÂ…Â…

9. When was the first currency issued, and who were the Consuls?

MMDCCLIII (the year 2000). Quintus Fabius Maximus and Marcus.
Minucius Audens were the Consuls that year.

10. Where can you purchase coins?

Harpax, in the Macellum. Only the second issue is now available for
purchase.
You may also be able to purchase coins from Provinciae, or on E-bay
or other vendors.

GAMES

11 During the Ludi Romani of 2756, who was the Curule Aedile
presenting the games, who won the Cultural award, and whose chariot
was victorious? (3 points)

Answer: Fr. Apulus Caesar was the Curule Aedile, Gaia Flavia
Aureliana won the
Cultural Award, and Gaius Iulius Scaurus' chariot "Raptor Cruentus"
won the
Circenses.

I appreciate that researching this answer was difficult because the
information is not that readily available on the Ludi pages. We will
work on adding information where it is missing. Well done, however,
to those who managed to find the answer.


12. Name the four racing factions that take part in the games, and
the colours in which each competes.

Albata, the Whites; Praesina, the Greens; Russata, the Reds, and
Veneta, the Blues.


BEING A CITIZEN

13. As a citizen you are attached to a Province. How many Provinces
are there in Nova Roma?

Twenty seven.

14. As a citizen you are also placed in a tribe. How many Urban, and
how many Rural tribes are there?

4 Urban tribes and 31 Rural. Nova Roma maintains the traditional
number of 35 tribes as in Roma Antiqua.

15. Nova Roma welcomes financial donations; You have four ways,
(funds etc) to help the Republic. What are they?

The answers we were looking for are:-

Payment of tax,
support to the Aedilician Fund (Magna Mater Project),
the Scholarship Fund,
and by making a general donation to the Treasury..

Nova Roma finances can also be helped by making a purchase from the
vendors in the macellum, who pay a proportion of their sales to the
Treasury. Bearing in mind an earlier question in this quiz, land may
also be donated, as well as gifts in kind..

16. How many citizens are currently assidui ?

The number has risen from 72 to 76 assidui over the past few days.
There is a suggestion that the published number may need to rise a
little more based on those listed as assidui in the album civium.

And so to the scores at the end of this second stage. A close fight
is developing for first place, with three contestants breaking ahead
of the field. We seem to have lost Tiberia, who was doing so well, in
this round.

M. Martianius Lupus 41
Cn-Equit Marinus 40
C. Aurelia Falco Silvana 40
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 36
L.Fidelius Lusitanus 30.
Pompeia_Minucia_Tiberia 19

The next questions will be issued tomorrow, Monday, at 6pm Rome time.
I shall look forward to seeing you all again then, for the final lap
towards the ultimate finish.

Valete optime

C Marcius Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55648 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> wrote:
I also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a partner, to
pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign that Venus
has derelicted them, and please report it to the main list.
Since, privately, I serve Vesta, I have no knowledge of Venus but I have a statue of Fortuna which has inexplicably broken.
 
Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55649 From: C. MINICIUS AGRIPPA Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Baelo First Century BC
Baelo First Century BC

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0nkuaNPPA

The general provision of urban campus seems taken directly from the
councils of Vitruvian had to be designed as a general provision of c urban
campus seems taken directly from the councils of Vitruvian had to be
designed as a city: doors at the ends of the streets main forum in the
centre of town life, the provision of high capitol, the theater attached
to one of the doors, the internal structure of the buildings from the
forensic area, and so on. In short, everything seems to indicate that at a
particular time in its history, probably at the time of Augustus, the
construction of a roman city ideally "ex novo" drawn, all at once.

Vale
C. Minicius Agrippa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55650 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Salve!.
We are really sorry to hear about your bad news. We've been there several times, on account of our country's faulty economy, but even then, we managed to get by, as you surely will. Be sure you'll be in our prayers.
Vale bene.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
Decimus Cassius Lupus.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:31 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY

> Salvete,
>
> Love life seems okay, but, I did lose my
job today...hmmmm...
>
> Valete,
> Triarius
>
>
> --- In
face=Arial size=2>Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
Salvete quirites,
> > it is a sad happening if Venus has indeed left
Nova Roma.
> > However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy
to further
> > one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged
episode of
> > divination.
> > Before believing Diana Aventina
I'll wait and see what other
> > sacerdotes say: if I remember well we
have at least one other
> sacerdos
> > of Venus.
> > I
also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a partner, to
> >
pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign that
>
Venus
> > has derelicted them, and please report it to the main
list.
> > If it turns out that really everybody's love life has been
suddenly
> > disrupted, probably the matter should be deliberated upon
by the
> > Collegium Pontificum, which seems to work a bit more
efficiently
> nowadays.
> > Personally I don't feel very
orphaned, I always liked Minerva better
> > anyway.
> > I am
also happy to remark that none of the other Gods seem to have
> >
manifested their displeasure for the removal of a Pontifex Maximus
>
who
> > didn't do his job or an Augur who was bent to keeping a closed
forum
> > so that he could talk to himself at his heart's wish.
> >
> > Optime valete omnes,
> > L. Livia Plauta
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Salvete,
> > >
> > > Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of
Love whom I
> > represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to
make. The
> Goddess
> > Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova
Roma. The mother of the
> Roman
> > people has abandoned Nova
Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are now
> > orphans.
> > >
> > > During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf of
Nova
> > Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will
return
> her
> > favour to NR only if 2 of our senior
magistrates-- Censor Modianus
> and
> > Consul Piscinus are
banished from Nova Roma for their crimes, never
> to
> >
return. 
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit
your group on the web, go to:
>    
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
>    
Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings
online go to:
>    
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
<*> To change settings via email:
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com">mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com">mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send
an email to:
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
   
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  
>
>
> --
> No virus
found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 01/03/08 05:41 p.m.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55651 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salvete!:
For all that it is worth, here in the Southren Hemisphere, during my Friday offerings to Venus (rather important to us, considering my Gens), nothing strange happened, but every offering was accepted without fuss, thus (as far as I understand them) indicating that everything was well. So I cannot quite understand Diana's negative vision outside her own personal appreciation of what's going on. Of course, I am not a priestess of Venus, according to Nova Roma, but I suppose my input might be useful for others.
Sorry!.
Valete!.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
PS: Not that I dislike Eris, don't get me wrong. She can be useful in certain situations.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Diana's negative vision

> Salve Marcella;
>  I am sacerdos to Dea Mens: Mind,
Thought, which is really an aspect
> of Venus
>  you can read
more here:
>
face=Arial size=2>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Mens
>  There is nothing to worry about. First Venus is called Genetrix,
> Mother, because she is the mother of Aeneas and thus the
Mother of
> the Roman people. And secondly the Roman gods don't curse
Romans;
> never did.
>
href="http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus">http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus
>
>
> Whatever Diana's visions and experience is, it is
definitely neo-
> pagan and not Roman, and I will explain.
>
> In Roman state religion there was no place for personal visions of
> the gods. Roman officials looked to omens, good and bad, and
>
prodigies.
>
> A bad omen could be lightning striking a tree in a
sacred grove; or
> a missing lobe of a liver during the inspection while
sacrificing
> and then you would perform a piaculum  for the grove
and for the
> sacrifice, keep sacrificing until the liver & other
signs were
> normal,signifiyig the sacrifice was accepted.
>
> A prodigy would be something really bad, monstrous; let's say a
two-
> headed calf being born near Rome. A magistrate would hear of it,
> worry, and bring it to the Senate. Then the Senate would decide
> whether to recognize the prodigy or not. If not, everything was
> fine. If they decided it was a bad prodigy. Then they might have the
> Quindecemviri look into the Sibylline Books or ask the Augurs what
> it meant.
>
> So you see the state had a lot of
safeguards and would restore the
> Pax Deorum when they felt things were
awry.
>
> A ceremony like the Concordialia when there was so much
tumult, is a
> very Roman response. In effect saying, 'Dea Concordia we
Romans need
> your help to repair relations between Romans'.
>
> So I hope I have explained things, clearly and that Alma
>
(Nourishing) Venus would never behave that way.
>
                bene vale in pacem Concordiae
>
                  M. Hortensia Maior
>
                   sacerdos Mentis
>
>
> Can another priestess confirm that
Venus dislikes Nova Roma?
> >
> >
> > Annia Minucia
Marcella
> >
href="http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia">http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> > http://novabritannia.org/
> > http://ciarin.com/governor
>
>
> > Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From:
Diana Aventina
> >   To:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:49 PM
> >  
Subject: [Nova-Roma] DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
> >
> >
> >
> >   During a ritual which I
did earlier this evening on behalf of
> Nova Roma, the Goddess of Love
spoke to me in a vision. She will
> return her favour to NR only if 2 of
our senior magistrates-- Censor
> Modianus and Consul Piscinus are
banished from Nova Roma for their
> crimes, never to return. 
.
> >
>
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo!
Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go
to:
>    
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
>    
Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings
online go to:
>    
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
<*> To change settings via email:
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com">mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com">mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send
an email to:
>    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>
   
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  
>
>
> --
> No virus
found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 01/03/08 05:41 p.m.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55652 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salvete!:
For all that it is worth, here in the Southren Hemisphere, during my Friday offerings to Venus (rather important to us, considering my Gens), nothing strange happened, but every offering was accepted without fuss, thus (as far as I understand them) indicating that everything was well. So I cannot quite understand Diana's negative vision outside her own personal appreciation of what's going on. Of course, I am not a priestess of Venus, according to Nova Roma, but I suppose my input might be useful for others.
Sorry!.
Valete!.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
PS: Not that I dislike Eris, don't get me wrong. She can be useful in certain situations.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Diana's negative vision

> Salve Marcella;
>  I am sacerdos to Dea Mens: Mind,
Thought, which is really an aspect
> of Venus
>  you can read
more here:
>
face=Arial size=2>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Mens
>  There is nothing to worry about. First Venus is called Genetrix,
> Mother, because she is the mother of Aeneas and thus the
Mother of
> the Roman people. And secondly the Roman gods don't curse
Romans;
> never did.
>
href="http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus">http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus
>
>
> Whatever Diana's visions and experience is, it is
definitely neo-
> pagan and not Roman, and I will explain.
>
> In Roman state religion there was no place for personal visions of
> the gods. Roman officials looked to omens, good and bad, and
>
prodigies.
>
> A bad omen could be lightning striking a tree in a
sacred grove; or
> a missing lobe of a liver during the inspection while
sacrificing
> and then you would perform a piaculum  for the grove
and for the
> sacrifice, keep sacrificing until the liver & other
signs were
> normal,signifiyig the sacrifice was accepted.
>
> A prodigy would be something really bad, monstrous; let's say a
two-
> headed calf being born near Rome. A magistrate would hear of it,
> worry, and bring it to the Senate. Then the Senate would decide
> whether to recognize the prodigy or not. If not, everything was
> fine. If they decided it was a bad prodigy. Then they might have the
> Quindecemviri look into the Sibylline Books or ask the Augurs what
> it meant.
>
> So you see the state had a lot of
safeguards and would restore the
> Pax Deorum when they felt things were
awry.
>
> A ceremony like the Concordialia when there was so much
tumult, is a
> very Roman response. In effect saying, 'Dea Concordia we
Romans need
> your help to repair relations between Romans'.
>
> So I hope I have explained things, clearly and that Alma
>
(Nourishing) Venus would never behave that way.
>
                bene vale in pacem Concordiae
>
                  M. Hortensia Maior
>
                   sacerdos Mentis
>
>
> Can another priestess confirm that
Venus dislikes Nova Roma?
> >
> >
> > Annia Minucia
Marcella
> >
href="http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia">http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> > http://novabritannia.org/
> > http://ciarin.com/governor
>
>
> > Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From:
Diana Aventina
> >   To:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 4:49 PM
> >  
Subject: [Nova-Roma] DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
> >
> >
> >
> >   During a ritual which I
did earlier this evening on behalf of
> Nova Roma, the Goddess of Love
spoke to me in a vision. She will
> return her favour to NR only if 2 of
our senior magistrates-- Censor
> Modianus and Consul Piscinus are
banished from Nova Roma for their
> crimes, never to return. 
.
> >
>
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo!
Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go
to:
>    
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
>    
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>
> <*> To change settings
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>    
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>
>
<*> To change settings via email:
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>  
>
>
> --
> No virus
found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date: 01/03/08 05:41 p.m.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55653 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Salve Triare:
I am sorry too to hear about your job loss. Pray to dea Fortuna
and I shall too, to be propitious to you. We are in a downturn,
though interestingly that's how I started my stall in Galway. So I
developed a good business from a bad economy. May it be so with you
amice!
bene vale in Fortunam
Maior
> Salve!.
> We are really sorry to hear about your bad news. We've been there
several times, on account of our country's faulty economy, but even
then, we managed to get by, as you surely will. Be sure you'll be in
our prayers.
> Vale bene.
> Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
> Decimus Cassius Lupus.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 2:31 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
>
>
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Love life seems okay, but, I did lose my job today...hmmmm...
> >
> > Valete,
> > Triarius
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete quirites,
> > > it is a sad happening if Venus has indeed left Nova Roma.
> > > However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy to
further
> > > one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged episode
of
> > > divination.
> > > Before believing Diana Aventina I'll wait and see what other
> > > sacerdotes say: if I remember well we have at least one other
> > sacerdos
> > > of Venus.
> > > I also kindly ask all married citizens, and those with a
partner, to
> > > pay attention in the next days to see if there is any sign
that
> > Venus
> > > has derelicted them, and please report it to the main list.
> > > If it turns out that really everybody's love life has been
suddenly
> > > disrupted, probably the matter should be deliberated upon by
the
> > > Collegium Pontificum, which seems to work a bit more
efficiently
> > nowadays.
> > > Personally I don't feel very orphaned, I always liked Minerva
better
> > > anyway.
> > > I am also happy to remark that none of the other Gods seem to
have
> > > manifested their displeasure for the removal of a Pontifex
Maximus
> > who
> > > didn't do his job or an Augur who was bent to keeping a closed
forum
> > > so that he could talk to himself at his heart's wish.
> > >
> > > Optime valete omnes,
> > > L. Livia Plauta
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Salvete,
> > > >
> > > > Happy Birthday Nova Roma. On behalf of the Goddess of Love
whom I
> > > represent in Nova Roma, I have a sad announcement to make. The
> > Goddess
> > > Venus has withdrawn Her favour from Nova Roma. The mother of
the
> > Roman
> > > people has abandoned Nova Roma. Nova Roma and her citizens are
now
> > > orphans.
> > > >
> > > > During a ritual which I did earlier this evening on behalf
of Nova
> > > Roma, the Goddess of Love spoke to me in a vision. She will
return
> > her
> > > favour to NR only if 2 of our senior magistrates-- Censor
Modianus
> > and
> > > Consul Piscinus are banished from Nova Roma for their crimes,
never
> > to
> > > return.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1306 - Release Date:
01/03/08 05:41 p.m.
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55654 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: A Invitation to Nova Roma
Priscus Omnibus sal.

The Curatores of The Societas Via Romana cordially invite all
interested Citizens of Nova Roma, all Romans in Spirit, and all other
Roman Culture Enthusiasts to join us in Austin, Texas, on a. d. XII
Kalendas Maias (20 April), Ab Urbe Condita MMDCCLXI (2008 CE) for the
Feriae Latinae.

What are the Feriae Latinae?
- The original Feriae Latinae was a celebration of unity
among the Latins, and later of unity between Rome and Latium;
- It was a time for resolving disputes between Latin towns;
- A Sacred Truce was enforced and hostilities banned during this time;
- Atop Mons Albanus in Latium the Consuls appeared to participate in a
sacrifice to Iuppiter Latiaris (Latin Jupiter);
- The remains of the the sacrifice were then shared out among the
participant towns and Rome, giving all the benefit of the blessing.

What it means today:
- The celebration was about unity;
- It was a celebration of the kind of respect and solidarity that we
hope for among today's various Roman and Roman Religious groups; and
- Since the Feriae Latinae are being held on April 20, by chance or
design, the following day, April 21st, will be the Dies
Natalis Urbis Romae Ipsius. (A double Roman unity bonanza, as it were.)
We hope that all lovers of Rome will join together this April in
celebrating the eternal spirit of Roma ipsa, as well as the
determination, dedication and common enthusiasm seen among all modern
Romans.

Optime valete!

Quintus Servilius Priscus, Curator
Valerius Claudius Iohannes, Curator
On behalf of The Societas Via Romana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55655 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY - Triarus
Salve Triari

You have my sympathies on your news.

I too was made redundant around 12 years ago after many years in the
same job. It seemed like a complete end. But I got another job which
was much more rewarding in almost eveery way, and which has been a
great source of friendship and happiness.

I hope the fates will be equally kind to you.

Vale bene.

C Marcius Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55656 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salvete Agrippa et omnes;
let me explain some more..

First, the gods and the Roman people have a patron client
relationship, this means that the general assumption is that the
gods are favourable to the Roman people.

Now let me expain, whatever good or bad omen happens in your home,
has to do with your private cultus and has nothing to do with the
state's relationship to the gods.

In his or her home, the Roman civis is the priest and priestess of
the family cult. So whoever are your Penates, the private deities
you worship, that's who you look to. So if you like Gaia Julia
Agrippa worship Venus, and there seems to be a bad omen, offer a
piaculum or ask a pontiff for advice. This is between you and the
deity. And you can repair it, the deity wants to be favorable!

Now for state religious personnel, sure I would be on the lookout
for any omens while I perform a ritual for the state. But remember,
when sacrificing a priestess or priest pulls her/his toga over her
head so neither of them sees a bad omen! This is classically Roman.

So I would look out for bird or animal omens or lightening good and
bad, and if I had a question I would ask a pontiff or augur for an
opinion. That's what they are for; they are religious specialists.

So I hope I've been clear in explaining that your home cultus has
nothing to do with the state. It's not your worry. And if an
official has a problem, he or she immediately brings it to a pontiff
or augur for advice and consultation. That's the way it works.

If you have any more questions please ask; I'm really happy to help.
optime vale
Marca Hortensia Maior
producer'Vox Romana'podcast
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana

Enjoy these articles on the wiki on the gods!:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods


>
> Salvete!:
> For all that it is worth, here in the Southren Hemisphere, during
my Friday offerings to Venus (rather important to us, considering my
Gens), nothing strange happened, but every offering was accepted
without fuss, thus (as far as I understand them) indicating that
everything was well. So I cannot quite understand Diana's negative
vision outside her own personal appreciation of what's going on. Of
course, I am not a priestess of Venus, according to Nova Roma, but I
suppose my input might be useful for others.
> Sorry!.
> Valete!.
> Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
> PS: Not that I dislike Eris, don't get me wrong. She can be useful
in certain situations.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55657 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Podcast
Agrciola Potito sal.

Yes, it is a nice hexameter read on the podcast, and the following
English translation is also very well read indeed. I hope to hear more
from this contributor.

optime vale in cura deorum


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "sstevemoore" <astrobear@...> wrote:
>
> Salve, Hortensia Maior,
>
> Gratias ago tibi for your clear and reasoned response to the Venus
> question. I was surprised to hear a sacerdos declaring that one of our
> deities had abandoned us. I hope that the CP will look into this
> distasteful public statement.
>
> I'd also like to thank you for the latest podcast. It was a delight! I
> can't get enough of listening to Virgil.
>
> Vale,
> M. Valerius Potitus
>
> Tuta erit vobis Velia.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55658 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-02
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Agrippa et omnes;

Salve Maior,

> let me explain some more..
>
> First, the gods and the Roman people have a patron client
> relationship, this means that the general assumption is that the
> gods are favourable to the Roman people.

Unless the Roman people, or some of their magistrates, have done
something to displease the Gods.

I am not speaking of this occasion neccesarily, but will not rule it
out either.

> Now let me expain, whatever good or bad omen happens in your home,
> has to do with your private cultus and has nothing to do with the
> state's relationship to the gods.

Pretty much the only place a Nova Roman is going to see an omen, good
or bad, is home. We're not going to see them at the temple, in the
forum, etc.

Besides, you are wrong even in ancient times. I was reading a number
of examples in Valerius Maximus today of dreams, visions, portents
that came to individuals (not always augurs or religious or even
magisterial figures) that had import to the state.

Did that happen with Diana? I don't know. Is my broken statue, or
that of others related? I don't know. For all I know it was the cat.
However, a lot of damage has been inflicted on Nova Roma lately (and
is now starting to cost Nova Roma lots of money, or will soon). Maybe
it wasn't the cat.

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55659 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Sacra Fidei
Dea Fides: the goddess of Trust and a sense of duty towards others
governs obligations between Romans.

Known as Fides Publica and Fides Publica Populi Romani She is the
oldest of the virtues honored,
and Numa himself is believed to have founded her first shrine on
the Capitoline in Rome. A temple was built by A. Atilius Calatinus
circa 254/250 B.C.E, and restored by M. Aemilius Scaurus in 115
B.C.E The temple was believed to have been in front of that of
Iuppiter Capitolinus showing the closeness and importance of Dea
Fides.



Ritual for Fides
SALUTATIO
Avete FidesSupremi Dique Imortales! Quin agete ipsos et libens
propriorum certaminis vos dignare manu indulgete sacris.

"Hail Fides and all You immortal Gods above! Why not arouse
Yourselves and graciously attend the ceremonies that we hold in Your
honor with Your divine presence."

INVOCATIO

Iustitiae rectique dator, qui cuncta gubernas, audi, Fides, audite
Di Deaeque Parenti, qui hanc urbem, hoc sacratos locosque colitis,
audite. Di Parenti, vos hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces precor, ut
sistis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque
nostris.

"O Giver of Justice and Rectitude, You who steers the course of the
lingering stars of destiny, hear me, Fides. Listen. Gods and
Goddesses of our ancestors, You who cherish this City and these
sacred groves, listen. Gods of our forefathers, I make this offering
of incense to You and pray with good prayers that You will look
kindly and favorably upon us and our children, on our houses and on
our households."

SACRIFICATIO

Fides disque ago gratias merito magnas. Serva, Fides, nos mihi per
tuom te genium obsecro, exi, te volumus.

"To Fides and the Gods deservedly I give thanks. Fides, look down
and preserve us, I do beseech you by your good genius. Come forth!
We wish for You."

Fides, pii castique ad te hoc die cordibus apertis venimus. Hisce
safriciis te colere volumus. Exaudi nos, O Fides, et hoc die
praesentia tua nos digneris! Sicut antea toties fecisti, et nunc
haec sacrificia accipe, civitatemque nostram benedic! Ante Iovem
generata, decus divumque hominymque, / qua sine non tellus pacem,
non aequora norunt, / Iustitiae consors tacitumque in pectore numen
Accipe libamina nostra, et mitte nobis voluntatem beingnam tuam!
Dona nobis concordiam et abundantiam vitae!

"Fides, we come before You this day with open hearts, pure and
chaste. By these offerings we seek to honor You. Hear us, O Fides,
and may You honor us this day with your presence. As You have so
often before, so now accept these offerings and bless our civitas.
Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of Gods and men,
without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justice, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women.
Accept our libations and send upon us Your kind thoughts. May You
grant Nova Roma concord and a richness of life!"

Laurel, incense, cakes of cheese drizzled with honey, and libations
of milk are offered each in turn.

Fides, te hoc turem obmoveimus bonas preces precamur, ut sis volens
propitius nos liberisque noster domo familiaeque noster.

"Fides, to You we make this offering of incense and pray that You
will look kindly and favorably upon us, upon our children, on our
homes and our households."

Fides, macte istic libatione pollicenda esto, macte lactem esto. In
tua, Mater carissima, in tua sumus custodia

"Fides, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be honored
by this milk. In You, dearest Mother, in Your hands do we place our
safekeeping."

LITATIO

The Praeses offers incense on the altar once more. Then he turns,
steps away from the altar, and the Praeses dismisses the Gods by
saying the formula:

Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.

"No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough."

PERLITATIO

The Praeses, turning to those present, says:

Ilicet. Di deaeque omnes, superi atque inferi, vos semper ament et
felicitam volunt.

"Thus it is done. May all the Gods above and below always love you
and wish you happiness in all that is good."

They respond:

Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.

"May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it is pious."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55660 From: albmd323232 Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Where are the Roman exhibits in Florida?
Salvete,

I am going on a trip to south Florida in a few weeks (Tampa, St.
Petersburg, Sarasota, and Miami) and I am wondering what are the
museums with Roman items? I found the Tampa Museum of Art is under
construction and not showing the Roman items, leaving the MFA in St.
Petersburg and the Bass Museum in Miami. Does anyone know anywhere
else? Also, are there any places to get Roman coins or items in the
above-mentioned cities? Any help is appreciated!


Valete,
D. Claudius Aquilius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55661 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
podcast Latin (was:  Diana's negative vision)

 A. Tullia Scholastica M. Valerio Potito quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Salve, Hortensia Maior,

Gratias ago tibi for your clear and reasoned response to the Venus
question. I was surprised to hear a sacerdos declaring that one of our
deities had abandoned us. I hope that the CP will look into this
distasteful public statement.

I'd also like to thank you for the latest podcast. It was a delight! I
can't get enough of listening to Virgil.


    ATS:  If you can’t get enough of listening to Vergil, you might like to listen to the first two podcasts, which contain readings of the beginning of the Aeneid with translations by yours truly, a genuine Latinist.  There is also a dialog in Latin, with translation, between Avitus, our chief Latinist, who has just rejoined this list, and myself on both of them.  The translation of the Aeneid is read in beautiful RP English by A. Apollonius Cordus, and (if memory serves) both of these podcasts have several contributors.  The latest podcast seems to be confined to contributions from M. Hortensia Maior and C. Curius Saturninus, plus the lovely song.  The previous two also had interesting information concerning the religio provided by Cn. Salvius Astur, consularis and then-pontifex, and reading of the news by aedilis Albucius.

Vale,
M. Valerius Potitus

Tuta erit vobis Velia.

 Vale, et valete.
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55640;

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55662 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Sacra Fidei
Re: [Nova-Roma] Sacra Fidei
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    For the benefit of any Latin-literate readers, including our Avitus, please note that both M. Hortensia Maior and I (and probably the two  Latinists in the cohors besides myself) are aware that the Latin below is atrocious in part, but we were not allowed to change the text despite glaring errors.  Not even the grammar could be corrected.  I supplied a text corrected to the best of my ability, but unfortunately it could not be used.  Both of us deplore the use of incorrect texts as examples of proper Latin, and I rather suspect that the Roman deities will have to cover their ears and avert their eyes upon discovery of this.  

Valete.
 
 

Dea Fides: the goddess of Trust and a sense of duty towards others
governs obligations between Romans.

Known as Fides Publica and Fides Publica Populi Romani She is the
oldest of the virtues honored,
and Numa himself is believed to have founded her first shrine on
the Capitoline in Rome. A temple was built by A. Atilius Calatinus
circa 254/250 B.C.E, and restored by M. Aemilius Scaurus in 115
B.C.E The temple was believed to have been in front of that of
Iuppiter Capitolinus showing the closeness and importance of Dea
Fides.

Ritual for Fides
SALUTATIO
Avete FidesSupremi Dique Imortales! Quin agete ipsos et libens
propriorum certaminis vos dignare manu indulgete sacris.

"Hail Fides and all You immortal Gods above! Why not arouse
Yourselves and graciously attend the ceremonies that we hold in Your
honor with Your divine presence."

INVOCATIO

Iustitiae rectique dator, qui cuncta gubernas, audi, Fides, audite
Di Deaeque Parenti, qui hanc urbem, hoc sacratos locosque colitis,
audite. Di Parenti, vos hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces precor, ut
sistis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque
nostris.

"O Giver of Justice and Rectitude, You who steers the course of the
lingering stars of destiny, hear me, Fides. Listen. Gods and
Goddesses of our ancestors, You who cherish this City and these
sacred groves, listen. Gods of our forefathers, I make this offering
of incense to You and pray with good prayers that You will look
kindly and favorably upon us and our children, on our houses and on
our households."

SACRIFICATIO

Fides disque ago gratias merito magnas. Serva, Fides, nos mihi per
tuom te genium obsecro, exi, te volumus.

"To Fides and the Gods deservedly I give thanks. Fides, look down
and preserve us, I do beseech you by your good genius. Come forth!
We wish for You."

Fides, pii castique ad te hoc die cordibus apertis venimus. Hisce
safriciis te colere volumus. Exaudi nos, O Fides, et hoc die
praesentia tua nos digneris! Sicut antea toties fecisti, et nunc
haec sacrificia accipe, civitatemque nostram benedic! Ante Iovem
generata, decus divumque hominymque, / qua sine non tellus pacem,
non aequora norunt, / Iustitiae consors tacitumque in pectore numen
Accipe libamina nostra, et mitte nobis voluntatem beingnam tuam!
Dona nobis concordiam et abundantiam vitae!

"Fides, we come before You this day with open hearts, pure and
chaste. By these offerings we seek to honor You. Hear us, O Fides,
and may You honor us this day with your presence. As You have so
often before, so now accept these offerings and bless our civitas.
Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of Gods and men,
without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justice, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women.
Accept our libations and send upon us Your kind thoughts. May You
grant Nova Roma concord and a richness of life!"

Laurel, incense, cakes of cheese drizzled with honey, and libations
of milk are offered each in turn.

Fides, te hoc turem obmoveimus bonas preces precamur, ut sis volens
propitius nos liberisque noster domo familiaeque noster.

"Fides, to You we make this offering of incense and pray that You
will look kindly and favorably upon us, upon our children, on our
homes and our households."

Fides, macte istic libatione pollicenda esto, macte lactem esto. In
tua, Mater carissima, in tua sumus custodia

"Fides, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be honored
by this milk. In You, dearest Mother, in Your hands do we place our
safekeeping."

LITATIO

The Praeses offers incense on the altar once more. Then he turns,
steps away from the altar, and the Praeses dismisses the Gods by
saying the formula:

Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.

"No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough."

PERLITATIO

The Praeses, turning to those present, says:

Ilicet. Di deaeque omnes, superi atque inferi, vos semper ament et
felicitam volunt.

"Thus it is done. May all the Gods above and below always love you
and wish you happiness in all that is good."

They respond:

Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.

"May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it is pious."

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55659;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55663 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve Palladi;
your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman religion.
Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at Oxford
and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put on the
list.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum

When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a solutions to
restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.

Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.' This is
the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East, your
various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And naturally
Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude is with
us today.
Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-Roman
Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977

So I'd say Diana's vision is typical of Astarte, the Middle Eastern
phoenician goddess, who was also the patron of Carthage, and the
Carthaginians hated the Romans.

I really recommend reading Beard & North's "Religions of Rome, Vols. 1
& 2 it is a great survey of Roman religion, the nexus of state and
religion and various cults, with the latest scholarship,
archaeological evidence..etc
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior
(apologies the comitia calata have not met yet to announce the
religious appointments so I should not have put 'sacerdos' yet..)

producer 'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana



>
> Unless the Roman people, or some of their magistrates, have done
> something to displease the Gods.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55664 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
Maior Scholasticae quiritibus spd;
the lovely reading of the Aeneid was by Anna, who indeed is a Latin
teacher and really enjoys participating in our podcast.

I'm glad you are also enjoying Meredith Bragg's song, he tells me he
is thinking of another to do with a Roman topic.

Finally I am pretty thrilled about Saturninus's ongoing series of
discussions of the calendar, he's a classics graduate student and an
excellent scholar.
optime vale
Maior


The latest podcast seems to be confined to contributions from M.
Hortensia Maior and C. Curius Saturninus, plus the lovely song. The
previous two also had interesting information concerning the religio
provided by Cn. Salvius Astur,> > consularis and then-pontifex, and
reading of the news by aedilis Albucius.
> >
> > Vale,
> > M. Valerius Potitus
> >
> > Tuta erit vobis Velia.
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55640;
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55665 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI

Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae

Ex officio Praetoris

 Aues scaeva apparirunt, praepetes uolabant, auspicia propitia sunt:

 The Iudicio of Actor M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus versus Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus begins today, March. 3rd, and will be conducted under the public scrutiny.

 I have called the following citizens to be iudices in the trial:

 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Marianus Adrianus Sarus, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus

 And the following as alternate iudices:

 Franciscus Apulus Caesar

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Titus Arminius Genialis
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Caius Curius Saturninus
Marcus
Lucretius Agricola
Lucius Salix Cicero

 

According to the laws and legal proceedings of Nova Roma, Marianus Adrianus Sarus requested to be exempted within 36 hours after the issuing of the Formula and I allowed his request. Therefore the tribunal will be composed by:

 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus

Franciscus Apulus Caesar

 

Praetor Iulius Severus received last February 25 a petition from T. Galerius Paulinus to replace three judges (“for obvious reasons", sic):

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,


The request of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus to replace Tiberius Galerius Paulinus arrived after the deadline of 36 hours established by the law.

The Praetores demanded explanations from Tiberius Galerius Paulinus regarding his request to replace those three iudices, but his response has not reached me.

 

According the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Tertia: De iudicibus, IX:

A. A citizen thus appointed to a court shall be able to ask for an exemption from that judicial work if there are factors that do not allow him to serve in that position. The praetor must be asked for that exemption within thirty-six (36) hours of the official announcement of that appointment; the praetor shall grant that exemption at his own discretion, or he shall deny it, thus forcing the appointed iudex to serve or face an accusation of contempt.

C. Each party shall be able to dismiss a maximum of three (3) iudices, forcing a new iudex to be aleatorily taken from the album iudicum with each veto. Once both parties agree with a certain group of iudices, or both have already used their three vetoes, the remaining iudices shall be the final iudices, unless one of the preceding paragraphs applies.

D. If both parties can agree on a certain citizen(s) of Nova Roma to judge their case before a definitive group of legal iudices has been appointed, then the praetor shall include that citizen (or those citizens) among the iudices for the current case.

 

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO

Accordig the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria Pars Quarta: De Iudicio
XI. Any of the parties can choose to appoint an advocatus (advocate or barrister) to speak for them in front of the iudices, or they can choose to speak by themselves.
XII. The actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the
reus shall present evidence to back his defence. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.

 

The only possible interpretation to these rules is that both parties *must*  be present at the trial.

 Since the trial is held on the mailing list NovaRomaTribunalis at Yahoo Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/), both parties *must* join it.

 

COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES

Both Actor and Reus must be present in the Court to speak. They shall plead together in person.

Now we need to know if the Actor and the Reus have chosen to speak by themselves, or they have appointed an advocatus, before post meridiem Roma’s time, March 4th.

Si ambo praesentes the Actor or his advocatus can present evidence to back his demand on March 4th   post meridiem Roma’s time.

When the Actor has finished explaining his demand, the Reus or his advocatus can present his evidence on March 5th post meridiem Roma’s time.

 

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.

If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor, this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the Actor or Reus, is justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor.

 

DE FORMULA IUDICIARIA

The Actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the Reus shall present evidence to back his defense. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.

The Praetor shall be the final judge to determine what pieces of evidence are relevant to the case.

If iudices need to make any questions to the parties, they may proceed.

Once both parties have presented their evidence, each party shall have the opportunity to make one final statement in front of the iudices, with the Actor speaking in the first place.

Then the Praetor shall call for a sententia (sentence) from the iudices. I must remember the Iudices that, in case of doubt,  they must *not* condemn the Reus.

 

Once the Praetor has called for a sententia, the iudices shall have seventy-two (72) hours to deliberate; within those seventy-two (72) hours, the iudices shall individually issue one of the following sentences:

a.       ABSOLVO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "absolvo", the Reus shall be acquitted.

b.       CONDEMNO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "condemno", the Reus shall be condemned according to the formula previously established by the Praetor.

c.        Should there be a draw in the tribunal's votes, the Reus shall be acquitted.

 

The Formula previously established by the Praetor is:

If it is proven that L. Equitius Cincinnatus violated the sections of the Lex Salicia Poenalis concerning:

 

  1. ·    Abusus Potestatis,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of MULTA PECUNIARIA, INHABILITATIO and EXATIO;
  2. ·     Contumelia Pietate and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  3. ·     Laesa Patriae  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  4. ·      and Iniuria,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of INHABILITATIO and EXATIO.


De poenis

  1. If the Reus is convicted, the amount of the Multa Pecuniaria and length of the sentence will be fixed in accordance with the Petitio of the Actor. 
  2. Breach of warranty providex by the Vindex: the Vindex may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 60.00. The Vindex shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.
  3. Contempt:  The citizen accused  of contempt may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 350.00 and shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.


Once all the iudices have issued their sententiae, the Praetor will immediately inform the parties of the sententia, and shall enforce any penalties through his imperium.

  This edict become effective immediately

 Datum sub manu mea a.d. V Non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand on
March 3rd 2008  CE in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius

 

-- 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55666 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve Maior
 
It isn't as cut and dried as you make out. In normal times the Gods manifested themselves through signs, which then were interpreted by the magistrate. Occasions of irritation as John Scheid describes it in "An introduction to Roman Religion" Indiana University Press 2003.
 
Now, Scheid stresses that the situation is different in times when as he quotes an example Jupiter wishes to make himself heard, (above and beyond immediate interpretation during a ritual I assume), he rejects his role of patronus of the people and seccession and violent demonstrations follow.
 
Scheid goes onto say:
 
"Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to the magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
 
So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he claims did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
 
Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods were angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly what he is saying.
 
Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have run shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their heads, like lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning their city, but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this display of anger.
 
That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the Gods weren't angry/displeased though.
 
Comment?
 
Vale bene
Caesar


Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
Salve Palladi;
your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman religion.
Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at Oxford
and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put on the
list.
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Reading_ list_for_ the_cultus_ deorum

When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a solutions to
restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.

Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.' This is
the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East, your
various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And naturally
Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude is with
us today.
Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-Roman
Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977

Á—ÑSc#”î=

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55667 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetori M. Curiatio Complutensi S.P.D.

I must protest most strongly.

Knowing full well that Ti. Galerius Paulinus was advocatus to the
Reus in the matter of provocatio, and not having communicated well
in advance to allow for a change in advocatus for this trial, you
made him an iudex and then also left it until the very day of the
trial to announce that your only possible interpretation is that the
Reus should be present? Where on earth is the equity in this Praetor?

Forgive me but it seems to me that you are intent on pushing this to
yet another conviction without trial. Nova Roman justice has to be
seen to be operating Praetor, and from my standpoint this process
has developed into blatant unfairness.

As it happens I do not agree that the only possible interpetation is
that the Reus must be present. The law as it is written Praetor does
not say that. Under Section IX.C of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria each
party can dismiss upt to 3 iudices. Nowhere in that section does it
give youa s Praetor the right to question that, so your "demand"
that Paulinus explain himself is an abuse of your position and the
negation of the rights of the Reus, and I might add may very well be
seen as a deliberate attempt to frustrate a fair trial, if such were
possible under these last minute rules.

I also do not agree that Section XII inescapably leads to the
conclusion that the Reus must be present. it does not say so and he
has an advocatus, well he did until you knowingly made him a iudex,
which frankly defies belief. Section XII can be interpreted to mean
the Reus or by virtue of the preceding section his advocatus.

In the event that you may not listen to this and in the fatuous hope
that the Tribunes will care enough about a citizens rights, rather
than the good of us all (and I withdraw from their all as I would
rather defend one man's rights than a state), I would appeal to the
Tribunes if the Praetor proceeds to pronounce intercessio. I appeal
to the Junior Consul to interpose his veto on this aboslutely
terrible manipulation of our law to secure a quick and speedy
conviction.

This is Praetor, with all due respect to your office, but none to
your person, a travesty of justice for which you should be utterly
ashamed and shamed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55668 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: New Priesthood Appointments
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Pontifex et Flamen Pomonalis salutem pluritem dicit

On February 29th the Comitia Curiata was convened to witness the
following priesthood appointments:

Marca Hortensia Maior as Sacerdos Mentis.
Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus for Flamen Palatualis.
Quintus Valerius Poplicola for Flamen Falacer.

The following lictores witnessed the new priesthood appointments:

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Quintus Servilius Priscus
Marcus Martianius Gangalius
Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

Congratulations to our new sacerdos and two new flamen.

On behalf of the Collegium Pontificum.

Valete:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55669 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: podcast Latin (was: Diana's negative vision)
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: podcast Latin                  (was:  Diana's negative vision)

 A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Maiori quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Maior Scholasticae quiritibus spd;
 the lovely reading of the Aeneid was by Anna, who indeed is a Latin
teacher and really enjoys participating in our podcast.

    ATS:  You should have identified her...she sounds much like you.  She does have a good Latin pronunciation, too, though I am not sure about the scansion.  I may have to listen again.  Who did the translation?  I think you had been using one from an older online source.

I'm glad you are also enjoying Meredith Bragg's song, he tells me he
is thinking of another to do with a Roman topic.

    ATS:  Yes, it was quite impressive, and moving.  Emilia’s song was also lovely, though I didn’t understand a syllable of it.  She has a lovely voice, but my Finnish is rather limited.  

Finally I am pretty thrilled about Saturninus's ongoing series of
discussions of the calendar,

    ATS:  Yes, he is one of our calendar experts.  I hope he will follow Avitus’ lead with regard to the journal Melissa, and try to find easier means of payment for those who eschew PayPal.  


he's a classics graduate student and an
excellent scholar.

    ATS:  We already knew that...

 optime vale
 Maior

Vale, et valete.


The latest podcast seems to be confined to contributions from M.
Hortensia Maior and C. Curius Saturninus, plus the lovely song.  The
previous two also had interesting information concerning the religio
provided by Cn. Salvius Astur,> > consularis and then-pontifex, and
reading of the news by aedilis Albucius.
> >
> > Vale,
> > M. Valerius Potitus
> >
> > Tuta erit vobis Velia.
> >
> >  Vale, et valete.
> >       
> >    Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55640;
>

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55640;
 
    

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55670 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetori M. Curiatio Complutensi S.P.D.
 
As you may need some further explantion as clearly you have misread the law, Section IX.A of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria clearly lays the duty upon you to disqualify any iudex chosen if you consider that they are "obviously related by ties of interest to one of the parties".
 
Well, I don't think you could have missed the point that Ti. Galerius Paulinus, has a tie of interest - he is the advocatus for the Reus. Maior? Well she has been vocal in support of the Actor. Tribune Aquila? Equally so. Now unless you are seriously telling us all that you hadn't read a singel post from Maior or Aquila, and your own replies indicate you did, why on earth did you not follow the law and remove them. I don't even have to ask why you didn't remove Paulinus do I?
 
Praetor it is not up to the advocatus of the Reus to check everything you do. he was prepared to deal with any iudex who he could identify a tie of interest which you as Praetor may not have known about. it is utterly unreasonable to complain he didnt seize on an error at once and within the 36 hours, when you should NEVER have made any of these choices in the first place.
 
You also accidentally and by mistake let Paulinus know that you agreed with him and were at a loss as to what to do? Isn't that the truth? If you deny it I will be forced to prove it. So if it is the mistake you admitted and Pualinus was right, is this your answer...to blame him???
 
Unbelievable. As is your one day's grace to get the Reus subscribed. Of course no one knows who is subscribed to thsi list of yours becuase you ahven't set it so that we can see. This is like a trial where the public all have bags on their heads. Well they say Justice is blind, but I think you take it too far when you make your entire court blind. How could anyone check who needed to be there when you have it set to secret??
 
As for Vedius Germanicus, a nice ploy to get rid of him. You know full well that he has basically left our "city" and gone to the seaside..in other words disgusted with the state of Nova Roma he is no longer active and is retired somewhere. Well when he doesn't turn up the next head to roll will be his as you will fine him, declare him capite censi and ensure he loses as much as you can. The full weight of the law on our other founder. Amazing. You don't live in a vacuum Praetor. You know who is active, not active, yet you do this.
And you wonder why some of us are viewing this as legalised proscription?
 

"M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS" <complutensis@...> wrote:
Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae

Ex officio Praetoris
 Aues scaeva apparirunt, praepetes uolabant, auspicia propitia sunt:
 The Iudicio of Actor M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus versus Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus begins today, March. 3rd, and will be conducted under the public scrutiny.
 I have called the following citizens to be iudices in the trial:
 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Marianus Adrianus Sarus, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus
 And the following as alternate iudices:
 Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Titus Arminius Genialis
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Caius Curius Saturninus
Marcus
Lucretius Agricola
Lucius Salix Cicero
According to the laws and legal proceedings of Nova Roma, Marianus Adrianus Sarus requested to be exempted within 36 hours after the issuing of the Formula and I allowed his request. Therefore the tribunal will be composed by:
 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Praetor Iulius Severus received last February 25 a petition from T. Galerius Paulinus to replace three judges (“for obvious reasons", sic):
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,

The request of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus to replace Tiberius Galerius Paulinus arrived after the deadline of 36 hours established by the law.
The Praetores demanded explanations from Tiberius Galerius Paulinus regarding his request to replace those three iudices, but his response has not reached me.
According the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Tertia: De iudicibus, IX:
A. A citizen thus appointed to a court shall be able to ask for an exemption from that judicial work if there are factors that do not allow him to serve in that position. The praetor must be asked for that exemption within thirty-six (36) hours of the official announcement of that appointment; the praetor shall grant that exemption at his own discretion, or he shall deny it, thus forcing the appointed iudex to serve or face an accusation of contempt.
C. Each party shall be able to dismiss a maximum of three (3) iudices, forcing a new iudex to be aleatorily taken from the album iudicum with each veto. Once both parties agree with a certain group of iudices, or both have already used their three vetoes, the remaining iudices shall be the final iudices, unless one of the preceding paragraphs applies.
D. If both parties can agree on a certain citizen(s) of Nova Roma to judge their case before a definitive group of legal iudices has been appointed, then the praetor shall include that citizen (or those citizens) among the iudices for the current case.
SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO
Accordig the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria Pars Quarta: De Iudicio
XI. Any of the parties can choose to appoint an advocatus (advocate or barrister) to speak for them in front of the iudices, or they can choose to speak by themselves.
XII. The actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the
reus shall present evidence to back his defence. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.
The only possible interpretation to these rules is that both parties *must*  be present at the trial.
 Since the trial is held on the mailing list NovaRomaTribunalis at Yahoo Groups (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Novaromatr ibunalis/), both parties *must* join it.
COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES
Both Actor and Reus must be present in the Court to speak. They shall plead together in person.
Now we need to know if the Actor and the Reus have chosen to speak by themselves, or they have appointed an advocatus, before post meridiem RomaÂ’s time, March 4th.
Si ambo praesentes the Actor or his advocatus can present evidence to back his demand on March 4th   post meridiem RomaÂ’s time.
When the Actor has finished explaining his demand, the Reus or his advocatus can present his evidence on March 5th post meridiem RomaÂ’s time.
POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.
a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor, this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and will face charges for contempt.
b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.
c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the Actor or Reus, is justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor.
DE FORMULA IUDICIARIA
The Actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the Reus shall present evidence to back his defense. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.
The Praetor shall be the final judge to determine what pieces of evidence are relevant to the case.
If iudices need to make any questions to the parties, they may proceed.
Once both parties have presented their evidence, each party shall have the opportunity to make one final statement in front of the iudices, with the Actor speaking in the first place.
Then the Praetor shall call for a sententia (sentence) from the iudices. I must remember the Iudices that, in case of doubt,  they must *not* condemn the Reus.
Once the Praetor has called for a sententia, the iudices shall have seventy-two (72) hours to deliberate; within those seventy-two (72) hours, the iudices shall individually issue one of the following sentences:
a.       ABSOLVO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "absolvo", the Reus shall be acquitted.
b.       CONDEMNO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "condemno", the Reus shall be condemned according to the formula previously established by the Praetor.
c.        Should there be a draw in the tribunal's votes, the Reus shall be acquitted.
The Formula previously established by the Praetor is:
If it is proven that L. Equitius Cincinnatus violated the sections of the Lex Salicia Poenalis concerning:
  1. ·    Abusus Potestatis,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of MULTA PECUNIARIA, INHABILITATIO and EXATIO;
  2. ·     Contumelia Pietate and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  3. ·     Laesa Patriae  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  4. ·      and Iniuria,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of INHABILITATIO and EXATIO.

De poenis
  1. If the Reus is convicted, the amount of the Multa Pecuniaria and length of the sentence will be fixed in accordance with the Petitio of the Actor. 
  2. Breach of warranty providex by the Vindex: the Vindex may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 60.00. The Vindex shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.
  3. Contempt:  The citizen accused  of contempt may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 350.00 and shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.

Once all the iudices have issued their sententiae, the Praetor will immediately inform the parties of the sententia, and shall enforce any penalties through his imperium.
  This edict become effective immediately
 Datum sub manu mea a.d. V Non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand on
March 3rd 2008  CE in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius
--   M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS  PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ    

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55671 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI

 A. Tullia Scholastica praetoria Cn. Iulio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetori M. Curiatio Complutensi S.P.D.

I must protest most strongly.

Knowing full well that Ti. Galerius Paulinus was advocatus to the
Reus in the matter of provocatio, and not having communicated well
in advance to allow for a change in advocatus for this trial, you
made him an iudex and then also left it until the very day of the
trial to announce that your only possible interpretation is that the
Reus should be present? Where on earth is the equity in this Praetor?

    ATS:  Indeed, how in the world can someone be both a iudex AND an advocatus in the same trial?  TGP should have been dismissed as a iudex on the spot.  Where are our lawyers?  Albucius is away, but is Cordus or one of the others (Papinianus, if he is on this list) at hand?  

    (quote ) Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, section IX.A.  If the praetor considers that some of the iudices thus appointed are obviously related by ties of interest to one of the parties, then the praetor shall, at his own discretion, dismiss those iudices and cast lots to appoint different iudices from the album iudicum. (end quote)  There should not be much quibbling about the fact that someone’s attorney is related to him or her by ties of interest, and that said party should not be a iudex.  Moreover, people known to hate a party in a suit should not be iudices, either.  These folks should have been dismissed.  There does not appear to be any time limit on this type of dismissal, but only on the asking for an exemption from jury duty.  That is a different matter altogether.

Forgive me but it seems to me that you are intent on pushing this to
yet another conviction without trial. Nova Roman justice has to be
seen to be operating Praetor, and from my standpoint this process
has developed into blatant unfairness.

As it happens I do not agree that the only possible interpetation is
that the Reus must be present. The law as it is written Praetor does
not say that. Under Section IX.C of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria each
party can dismiss upt to 3 iudices. Nowhere in that section does it
give youa s Praetor the right to question that, so your "demand"
that Paulinus explain himself is an abuse of your position and the
negation of the rights of the Reus, and I might add may very well be
seen as a deliberate attempt to frustrate a fair trial, if such were
possible under these last minute rules.

    ATS:  And here, there should be absolutely no need for Paulinus to explain himself with regard to his own case; he is the advocatus, and cannot also be iudex.  In just about any non-kangaroo court, some of the others would be dismissed by peremptory challenge.  Of course, the praetor should have a full index iudicum at hand, provided by the webmaster, not have to fish around the Album Civium to find those who fulfill the requirements; if that is the problem, it should be rectified immediately.  The webmasters are here to serve the magistrates and the citizenry by the application of their considerable technical expertise, not the other way around.  If the archives for Tribunalis had not been illegally destroyed, I at least would have been able to verify that it was the webmaster who prepared the index iudicum for the Scaevola/Fuscus matter.  

I also do not agree that Section XII inescapably leads to the
conclusion that the Reus must be present. it does not say so and he
has an advocatus, well he did until you knowingly made him a iudex,
which frankly defies belief. Section XII can be interpreted to mean
the Reus or by virtue of the preceding section his advocatus.

In the event that you may not listen to this and in the fatuous hope
that the Tribunes will care enough about a citizens rights, rather
than the good of us all (and I withdraw from their all as I would
rather defend one man's rights than a state), I would appeal to the
Tribunes if the Praetor proceeds to pronounce intercessio. I appeal
to the Junior Consul to interpose his veto on this aboslutely
terrible manipulation of our law to secure a quick and speedy
conviction.


    ATS:  I know that I don’t like where this train seems to be taking us.  I don’t agree with Cincinnatus’ views on the nature of Yahoo lists as private property and several other points any more than I agree with the desirability of deleting the CP list or the Tribunalis archives...but there is the scent of coup d’état and/or something like ethnic cleansing in the air, and I am not alone in finding it quite unpleasant.  The punishments alone are, to say the least, excessive, and there are more deserving targets thereof among us.  

This is Praetor, with all due respect to your office, but none to
your person, a travesty of justice for which you should be utterly
ashamed and shamed.

 Vale, et valete.
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55665;
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55672 From: Francesco Valenzano Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: looking for pictures
Salvete Omnes,
I'm looking for good images of roman lunch, I need the picture of a Roman eating on a troclinium. It could be an original painting on the wall or a modern rapresentaion. Any contribution is appreciated. Thank you.
 
Valete
Fr. Apulus Caesar
Senator



L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55673 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
M. Curiatius Cn. Iuli onmes civibus SPD

I have sent this message as a notice to interested parties that the trial begins, and what are the procedures to be followed from now on, not to take an absurd discussion about who is right or who is wrong on this issue.

The rules are clear and are to be followed in the trial.

Curate ut valete

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 


Gnaeus Iulius Caesar escribió:

Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetori M. Curiatio Complutensi S.P.D.

I must protest most strongly.

Knowing full well that Ti. Galerius Paulinus was advocatus to the
Reus in the matter of provocatio, and not having communicated well
in advance to allow for a change in advocatus for this trial, you
made him an iudex and then also left it until the very day of the
trial to announce that your only possible interpretation is that the
Reus should be present? Where on earth is the equity in this Praetor?

Forgive me but it seems to me that you are intent on pushing this to
yet another conviction without trial. Nova Roman justice has to be
seen to be operating Praetor, and from my standpoint this process
has developed into blatant unfairness.

As it happens I do not agree that the only possible interpetation is
that the Reus must be present. The law as it is written Praetor does
not say that. Under Section IX.C of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria each
party can dismiss upt to 3 iudices. Nowhere in that section does it
give youa s Praetor the right to question that, so your "demand"
that Paulinus explain himself is an abuse of your position and the
negation of the rights of the Reus, and I might add may very well be
seen as a deliberate attempt to frustrate a fair trial, if such were
possible under these last minute rules.

I also do not agree that Section XII inescapably leads to the
conclusion that the Reus must be present. it does not say so and he
has an advocatus, well he did until you knowingly made him a iudex,
which frankly defies belief. Section XII can be interpreted to mean
the Reus or by virtue of the preceding section his advocatus.

In the event that you may not listen to this and in the fatuous hope
that the Tribunes will care enough about a citizens rights, rather
than the good of us all (and I withdraw from their all as I would
rather defend one man's rights than a state), I would appeal to the
Tribunes if the Praetor proceeds to pronounce intercessio. I appeal
to the Junior Consul to interpose his veto on this aboslutely
terrible manipulation of our law to secure a quick and speedy
conviction.

This is Praetor, with all due respect to your office, but none to
your person, a travesty of justice for which you should be utterly
ashamed and shamed.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55674 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
How about we drop this silly trial business? Seriously, is all this really necessary? Everytime something is posted about a trial it causes strife on the list.
 
I say the whole thing be thrown out and forgotten. Nova Roma has no business acting like it has a judicial system; there's no need for it and it makes us look like an RPG. Does NR have a bar exam for lawyers and judges? No it doesn't. Any citizen can act like a lawyer or a judge, which is just absurd. We have no bailiffs, we can't issue a subpoena or a bench warrant. Anything serious enough for legal action is done in the macronation that has jurisdiction. In the REAL world, does anyone ever go to court for not letting someone on a mailing list? Why should we act any different if we're not roleplaying?
 
If someone has a complaint about another person deal with it like normal people. If I have a beef with a coworker or fellow group member I don't go to trial over it. It's just silly. I'm not roleplaying here, and I will not be silent while others continue to make it seem like this is some LARP.
 
Just stop.
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI

Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae

Ex officio Praetoris

 Aues scaeva apparirunt, praepetes uolabant, auspicia propitia sunt:

 The Iudicio of Actor M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus versus Reus L. Equitius Cincinnatus begins today, March. 3rd, and will be conducted under the public scrutiny.

 I have called the following citizens to be iudices in the trial:

 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Marianus Adrianus Sarus, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus

 And the following as alternate iudices:

 Franciscus Apulus Caesar

Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Titus Arminius Genialis
Pompeia Minucia Strabo
Caius Curius Saturninus
Marcus
Lucretius Agricola
Lucius Salix Cicero

According to the laws and legal proceedings of Nova Roma, Marianus Adrianus Sarus requested to be exempted within 36 hours after the issuing of the Formula and I allowed his request. Therefore the tribunal will be composed by:

 Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Caius Iulius Verus,
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
Lucius Minicius Sceptius, 
Caius Arminius Recanellus

Franciscus Apulus Caesar

Praetor Iulius Severus received last February 25 a petition from T. Galerius Paulinus to replace three judges (“for obvious reasons", sic):

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
Marca Hortensia Maior,
Titus Flavius
Aquila,


The request of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus to replace Tiberius Galerius Paulinus arrived after the deadline of 36 hours established by the law.

The Praetores demanded explanations from Tiberius Galerius Paulinus regarding his request to replace those three iudices, but his response has not reached me.

According the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Tertia: De iudicibus, IX:

A. A citizen thus appointed to a court shall be able to ask for an exemption from that judicial work if there are factors that do not allow him to serve in that position. The praetor must be asked for that exemption within thirty-six (36) hours of the official announcement of that appointment; the praetor shall grant that exemption at his own discretion, or he shall deny it, thus forcing the appointed iudex to serve or face an accusation of contempt.

C. Each party shall be able to dismiss a maximum of three (3) iudices, forcing a new iudex to be aleatorily taken from the album iudicum with each veto. Once both parties agree with a certain group of iudices, or both have already used their three vetoes, the remaining iudices shall be the final iudices, unless one of the preceding paragraphs applies.

D. If both parties can agree on a certain citizen(s) of Nova Roma to judge their case before a definitive group of legal iudices has been appointed, then the praetor shall include that citizen (or those citizens) among the iudices for the current case.

SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO

Accordig the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria Pars Quarta: De Iudicio
XI. Any of the parties can choose to appoint an advocatus (advocate or barrister) to speak for them in front of the iudices, or they can choose to speak by themselves.
XII. The actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the
reus shall present evidence to back his defence. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.

The only possible interpretation to these rules is that both parties *must*  be present at the trial.

 Since the trial is held on the mailing list NovaRomaTribunalis at Yahoo Groups (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Novaromatr ibunalis/), both parties *must* join it.

COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES

Both Actor and Reus must be present in the Court to speak. They shall plead together in person.

Now we need to know if the Actor and the Reus have chosen to speak by themselves, or they have appointed an advocatus, before post meridiem RomaÂ’s time, March 4th.

Si ambo praesentes the Actor or his advocatus can present evidence to back his demand on March 4th   post meridiem RomaÂ’s time.

When the Actor has finished explaining his demand, the Reus or his advocatus can present his evidence on March 5th post meridiem RomaÂ’s time.

POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.

If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor, this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the Actor or Reus, is justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor.

DE FORMULA IUDICIARIA

The Actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the Reus shall present evidence to back his defense. Evidence shall consist of anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the witnesses and experts presented by the other party.

The Praetor shall be the final judge to determine what pieces of evidence are relevant to the case.

If iudices need to make any questions to the parties, they may proceed.

Once both parties have presented their evidence, each party shall have the opportunity to make one final statement in front of the iudices, with the Actor speaking in the first place.

Then the Praetor shall call for a sententia (sentence) from the iudices. I must remember the Iudices that, in case of doubt,  they must *not* condemn the Reus.

Once the Praetor has called for a sententia, the iudices shall have seventy-two (72) hours to deliberate; within those seventy-two (72) hours, the iudices shall individually issue one of the following sentences:

a.       ABSOLVO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "absolvo", the Reus shall be acquitted.

b.       CONDEMNO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "condemno", the Reus shall be condemned according to the formula previously established by the Praetor.

c.        Should there be a draw in the tribunal's votes, the Reus shall be acquitted.

The Formula previously established by the Praetor is:

If it is proven that L. Equitius Cincinnatus violated the sections of the Lex Salicia Poenalis concerning:

  1. ·    Abusus Potestatis,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of MULTA PECUNIARIA, INHABILITATIO and EXATIO;
  2. ·     Contumelia Pietate and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  3. ·     Laesa Patriae  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
  4. ·      and Iniuria,  the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of INHABILITATIO and EXATIO.


De poenis

  1. If the Reus is convicted, the amount of the Multa Pecuniaria and length of the sentence will be fixed in accordance with the Petitio of the Actor. 
  2. Breach of warranty providex by the Vindex: the Vindex may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 60.00. The Vindex shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.
  3. Contempt:  The citizen accused  of contempt may be fined with no small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 350.00 and shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.


Once all the iudices have issued their sententiae, the Praetor will immediately inform the parties of the sententia, and shall enforce any penalties through his imperium.

  This edict become effective immediately

 Datum sub manu mea a.d. V Non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand on
March 3rd 2008  CE in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius

-- 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55675 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: A group dedicated to new or prospective citizens, 3/3/2008, 12:00 pm
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   A group dedicated to new or prospective citizens
 
Date:   Monday March 3, 2008
Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
Notes:   NewRoman http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newroman/ is a group where new and prospective citizens can meet and ask questions of some experienced citizens in a safe, moderated and low-traffic environment.
 
Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55676 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit

"Any citizen can act like a lawyer or a judge, which is just absurd."

Praetores are tasked with "administering the law." Having an internal
means in which to deal with disputes is neither absurd or
role-playing. The system we have may need changing, so it may be
cumbersome, difficult, etc... but it is hardly absurd. If Nova Roma
does in fact endeavor to be a civitas then it is reasonable to assume
that we will have internal means in which to deal with disputes.

"In the REAL world, does anyone ever go to court for not letting
someone on a mailing list? Why should we act any different if we're
not roleplaying?"

I had an SCA friend once ask me, "What time frame is Nova Roma and how
does your persona fit into it?" I advised my friend that there are no
personas in Nova Roma, like they have in the SCA. That we exist in
the "real world" while utilizing a Roman name for sake of fostering
Roman identity. Nothing about Nova Roma is role-playing (except for
some of the narratives presented within our Ludi events). We are in
the real world. This is not some sort of Roman interactive game. It
might be a mailing list (several mailing lists actually), but that
doesn't make it any less real.

"If someone has a complaint about another person deal with it like
normal people."

Complain on the main list? Issue rant after rant? No thanks.
Efforts have been made to deal with the likes of Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus by several people. People who sought a harmonious
solution, but their efforts were ignored. So, as civilized people the
grievances were addressed by the only means available -- through the
Lex Salicia Iudiciaria. Is this the best solution? I don't think so,
but it seems to be the only possible solution. I would rather Nova
Roma develop a sort of OMBUDSMAN who fields complaints from citizens
and who then would report to the consules (or praetores) and the
senate, whereby the senate (under the direction of the consules) would
develop an equitable solution via consular (or praetorian) edict and
senatus consulta.

One problem we have in Nova Roma is to deal with every problem as the
ancient Romans did. The ancient Romans used trials, and they used
them often. However, that doesn't seem like something that is suited
for the disposition that we have in our world today. The Romans were
localized (within Rome) while we are scattered throughout the globe.
A less cumbersome and lofty means of dealing with interpersonal
disputes might be worth investigating. Making the praetores the
ombudsmen of Nova Roma, and allowing them to work with the other
magistrates and the senate seems like a better solution. However,
this would probably require a constitutional amendment which is almost
impossible to accomplish, but might be worth trying.

"...and I will not be silent..."

And neither will I.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 4:10 AM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
> How about we drop this silly trial business? Seriously, is all this really
> necessary? Everytime something is posted about a trial it causes strife on
> the list.
>
> I say the whole thing be thrown out and forgotten. Nova Roma has no business
> acting like it has a judicial system; there's no need for it and it makes us
> look like an RPG. Does NR have a bar exam for lawyers and judges? No it
> doesn't. Any citizen can act like a lawyer or a judge, which is just absurd.
> We have no bailiffs, we can't issue a subpoena or a bench warrant. Anything
> serious enough for legal action is done in the macronation that has
> jurisdiction. In the REAL world, does anyone ever go to court for not
> letting someone on a mailing list? Why should we act any different if we're
> not roleplaying?
>
> If someone has a complaint about another person deal with it like normal
> people. If I have a beef with a coworker or fellow group member I don't go
> to trial over it. It's just silly. I'm not roleplaying here, and I will not
> be silent while others continue to make it seem like this is some LARP.
>
> Just stop.
>
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
> http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://novabritannia.org/
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
> Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
> To: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com ; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ;
> NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com ; Marcus Horatius ; Cincinnatus ;
> NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:53 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis omnes civibus Novae Romae
>
> Ex officio Praetoris
>
> Aues scaeva apparirunt, praepetes uolabant, auspicia propitia sunt:
>
> The Iudicio of Actor M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus versus Reus L.
> Equitius Cincinnatus begins today, March. 3rd, and will be conducted under
> the public scrutiny.
>
> I have called the following citizens to be iudices in the trial:
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
> Marca Hortensia Maior,
> Titus Flavius Aquila,
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Caius Iulius Verus,
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
> Lucius Minicius Sceptius,
> Marianus Adrianus Sarus,
> Caius Arminius Recanellus
>
> And the following as alternate iudices:
>
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar
>
> Marcus Iulius Perusianus
> Titus Arminius Genialis
> Pompeia Minucia Strabo
> Caius Curius Saturninus
> Marcus Lucretius Agricola
> Lucius Salix Cicero
>
>
>
> According to the laws and legal proceedings of Nova Roma, Marianus Adrianus
> Sarus requested to be exempted within 36 hours after the issuing of the
> Formula and I allowed his request. Therefore the tribunal will be composed
> by:
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
> Marca Hortensia Maior,
> Titus Flavius Aquila,
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Caius Iulius Verus,
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus ,
> Lucius Minicius Sceptius,
> Caius Arminius Recanellus
>
> Franciscus Apulus Caesar
>
>
>
> Praetor Iulius Severus received last February 25 a petition from T. Galerius
> Paulinus to replace three judges ("for obvious reasons", sic):
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus,
> Marca Hortensia Maior,
> Titus Flavius Aquila,
>
>
> The request of Tiberius Galerius Paulinus to replace Tiberius Galerius
> Paulinus arrived after the deadline of 36 hours established by the law.
>
> The Praetores demanded explanations from Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> regarding his request to replace those three iudices, but his response has
> not reached me.
>
>
>
> According the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria, Pars Tertia: De iudicibus, IX:
>
> A. A citizen thus appointed to a court shall be able to ask for an exemption
> from that judicial work if there are factors that do not allow him to serve
> in that position. The praetor must be asked for that exemption within
> thirty-six (36) hours of the official announcement of that appointment; the
> praetor shall grant that exemption at his own discretion, or he shall deny
> it, thus forcing the appointed iudex to serve or face an accusation of
> contempt.
>
> C. Each party shall be able to dismiss a maximum of three (3) iudices,
> forcing a new iudex to be aleatorily taken from the album iudicum with each
> veto. Once both parties agree with a certain group of iudices, or both have
> already used their three vetoes, the remaining iudices shall be the final
> iudices, unless one of the preceding paragraphs applies.
>
> D. If both parties can agree on a certain citizen(s) of Nova Roma to judge
> their case before a definitive group of legal iudices has been appointed,
> then the praetor shall include that citizen (or those citizens) among the
> iudices for the current case.
>
>
>
> SI IN IUS VOCAT, ITO
>
> Accordig the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria Pars Quarta: De Iudicio
> XI. Any of the parties can choose to appoint an advocatus (advocate or
> barrister) to speak for them in front of the iudices, or they can choose to
> speak by themselves.
> XII. The actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the reus
> shall present evidence to back his defence. Evidence shall consist of
> anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual
> evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of
> statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the
> witnesses and experts presented by the other party.
>
>
>
> The only possible interpretation to these rules is that both parties *must*
> be present at the trial.
>
> Since the trial is held on the mailing list NovaRomaTribunalis at Yahoo
> Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/), both parties
> *must* join it.
>
>
>
> COM PERORANTO AMBO PRAESENTES
>
> Both Actor and Reus must be present in the Court to speak. They shall plead
> together in person.
>
> Now we need to know if the Actor and the Reus have chosen to speak by
> themselves, or they have appointed an advocatus, before post meridiem Roma's
> time, March 4th.
>
> Si ambo praesentes the Actor or his advocatus can present evidence to back
> his demand on March 4th post meridiem Roma's time.
>
> When the Actor has finished explaining his demand, the Reus or his advocatus
> can present his evidence on March 5th post meridiem Roma's time.
>
>
>
> POST MERIDIEM PRAESENTI LITEM ADDICITO.
>
> If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the
> Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.
>
> a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor,
> this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the
> right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and
> will face charges for contempt.
>
> b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses
> the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo
> contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has
> acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.
>
> c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or
> vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the Actor or Reus, is
> justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his
> sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor.
>
>
>
> DE FORMULA IUDICIARIA
>
> The Actor shall present evidence to back his demands, and then the Reus
> shall present evidence to back his defense. Evidence shall consist of
> anything that is relevant to the case, including written texts, visual
> evidence, and the statements of witnesses or experts. In the case of
> statements, each party shall have the right to ask questions of the
> witnesses and experts presented by the other party.
>
> The Praetor shall be the final judge to determine what pieces of evidence
> are relevant to the case.
>
> If iudices need to make any questions to the parties, they may proceed.
>
> Once both parties have presented their evidence, each party shall have the
> opportunity to make one final statement in front of the iudices, with the
> Actor speaking in the first place.
>
> Then the Praetor shall call for a sententia (sentence) from the iudices. I
> must remember the Iudices that, in case of doubt, they must *not* condemn
> the Reus.
>
>
>
> Once the Praetor has called for a sententia, the iudices shall have
> seventy-two (72) hours to deliberate; within those seventy-two (72) hours,
> the iudices shall individually issue one of the following sentences:
>
> a. ABSOLVO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "absolvo", the Reus
> shall be acquitted.
>
> b. CONDEMNO: If the tribunal's majority decision is "condemno", the
> Reus shall be condemned according to the formula previously established by
> the Praetor.
>
> c. Should there be a draw in the tribunal's votes, the Reus shall be
> acquitted.
>
>
>
> The Formula previously established by the Praetor is:
>
> If it is proven that L. Equitius Cincinnatus violated the sections of the
> Lex Salicia Poenalis concerning:
>
>
>
> · Abusus Potestatis, the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty
> of MULTA PECUNIARIA, INHABILITATIO and EXATIO;
> · Contumelia Pietate and Impietas Prudens Dolo Malo, the iudices shall
> condemn the Reus to the penalty of EXATIO;
> · Laesa Patriae the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of
> EXATIO;
> · and Iniuria, the iudices shall condemn the Reus to the penalty of
> INHABILITATIO and EXATIO.
>
>
>
> De poenis
>
>
> If the Reus is convicted, the amount of the Multa Pecuniaria and length of
> the sentence will be fixed in accordance with the Petitio of the Actor.
> Breach of warranty providex by the Vindex: the Vindex may be fined with no
> small amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 60.00. The
> Vindex shall be counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.
> Contempt: The citizen accused of contempt may be fined with no small
> amount equal to the taxes of one year and not over US $ 350.00 and shall be
> counted among the capite censi until the fine has been paid.
>
>
> Once all the iudices have issued their sententiae, the Praetor will
> immediately inform the parties of the sententia, and shall enforce any
> penalties through his imperium.
>
> This edict become effective immediately
>
> Datum sub manu mea a.d. V Non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli
> coss.
>
> Given under my hand on March 3rd 2008 CE in the consulship of M. Moravius
> and T. Iulius
>
> --
> M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55677 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: [Fwd: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: Appointment of new iudices]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/message/193

-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: Appointment of new iudices
Fecha: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:33:16 +0100
De: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
A: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>, peraznanie@..., Francesco Valenzano <fraelov@...>, C·ARMINIVS·RECCANELLVS <c_arminius_reccanellus@...>, salixcicero@..., Marcus Lucretius Agricola <whogue@...>, Titus Arminius Genialis <tagenialis@...>, Cincinnatus <vergil96@...>, Marcus Horatius <mhoratius@...>, vedius@..., KILIKA143@...


M. Curiatius  Complutensis  omnes civibus S·P·D·

Despite the fact that the appointment of judges for this trial was announced well in advance, some citizens are not taken seriously his appointment as a judge and they or  do not answered or take new orders  (knowing that they should not do it).

This court has no intention of leaving the accused without counsel, so T. Galerius is exempt from serving as a iudex and  instead

let Marcus Iulius Perusianus be iudex.

Moreover, in order to avoid accusations of contempt proceedings against the appointed iudices who have not yet answered the call of this court, I prefer to replace them with others better prepared to serve the Res Publica.  Therefore Flavius Vedius Germanicus,  Gaius Iulius Verus and Gaius Arminius Reccanellus are exempt from serving as a  iudices and let

Lucius Salix Cicero
Titus Arminius Genialis
Marcus Lucretius Agricola

be iudices.

Therefore the Tribunal is composed by:

Marca Hortensia Maior
Titus Flavius Aquila
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Lucius Minicius Sceptius
Franciscus Apulus Caesar
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
Lucius Salix Cicero
Titus Arminius Genialis
Marcus Lucretius Agricola.

This edict become effective immediately

 Datum sub manu mea a.d. V Non. Mar. MMDCCLXI A. V. C. M.Moravi T. Iuli  coss.

Given under my hand on
March 3rd 2008  CE in the consulship of M. Moravius and T. Iulius

--
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 

Records

18-02-2008 Formula and appointment of the Iudices http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55155

23-02-2008 Auto appointment of T. Galerius as advocatus of L. Equitius http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55382

25-02-2008  L. Equitius accepts T. Galerius as his advocatus http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55479

02-03-2008 Praetor changes the List of the Appointed iudices

03-03-08 Begin of the Trial http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Novaromatribunalis/message/192

03-03-08 Appointment of new iudices 

-- 
M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris  KFBM
NOVA ROMA
 
-------------------------------------------
 
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55678 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: obsolete skills
Salvete

I bet we could add some "still do thats" to this list:
http://obsoleteskills.com/Skills/Skills

optime valete

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55679 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salvete Marcus Curiatius Complutensis

There are about 250 taxpayers from last year that count toward any list of
judges. They remain until the deadline for this years taxes are due and
then we will have a new number. In the trial I conducted as Praetor the
names of sitting magistrates and Senators were removed and a random
selection of those that remained was made. The leading members of Nova Roma
have made friends as well as enemies and we should have as many neutral
citizens serve as possible.

As to the three I asked you to remove I asked that you do it as the law
allows you to do
it for cause.

I am the Advocate of the Reus and have already made up my mind that he is
innocent and I can also not be in two places at once. The trial and the
appeals court.

Maior was made a judge and was then appointed to your staff. The fact that
you later rescinded that appointment does nothing to remove the APPEARANCE
of bias.
The fact that she has also written about the actions against L Equitius
Cincinnatus Augur
on the main list does not present the look of an impartial observer.

The tribune has written a good deal on how every thing you did in the first
case was legal and above board. I am appealing that view and the conduct of
the tribunes will be part of that appeal. NO one can view him as open minded
when it comes to any action taken against L Equitius Cincinnatus Augur.

If you want this to be a fair process and be SEEN to be a fair process then
the judges need to be seen as independent of any side in the dispute.

Anything less will have the appearance that the judges are being picked so
that a predetermined outcome is arrived at.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55680 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit
>
> "Any citizen can act like a lawyer or a judge, which is just absurd."
>
> Praetores are tasked with "administering the law." Having an internal
> means in which to deal with disputes is neither absurd or
> role-playing.

The means by which we are witnessing is entirely absurd. Wasn't the
advocate picked as a judge in the case? When does the ever happen in
any court?

The system we have may need changing, so it may be
> cumbersome, difficult, etc... but it is hardly absurd. If Nova Roma
> does in fact endeavor to be a civitas then it is reasonable to assume
> that we will have internal means in which to deal with disputes.
>

Most organizations don't have virtual courts(which consists of a
mailing list). The way we address grievances is overkill.


> "In the REAL world, does anyone ever go to court for not letting
> someone on a mailing list? Why should we act any different if we're
> not roleplaying?"
>
> I had an SCA friend once ask me, "What time frame is Nova Roma and how
> does your persona fit into it?" I advised my friend that there are no
> personas in Nova Roma, like they have in the SCA. That we exist in
> the "real world" while utilizing a Roman name for sake of fostering
> Roman identity. Nothing about Nova Roma is role-playing (except for
> some of the narratives presented within our Ludi events). We are in
> the real world. This is not some sort of Roman interactive game. It
> might be a mailing list (several mailing lists actually), but that
> doesn't make it any less real.
>

Exactly, and having "virtual trials" makes us look like a game. We
have no way to enforce the law, any person "convicted" can simply just
quit NR.


> "If someone has a complaint about another person deal with it like
> normal people."
>
> Complain on the main list? Issue rant after rant? No thanks.

No, that happens anyway. I'm talking about exactly what you reference
below. Many organizations and businesses have an Ombudsman and makes
use of alternative dispute resolution.


> Efforts have been made to deal with the likes of Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus by several people. People who sought a harmonious
> solution, but their efforts were ignored. So, as civilized people the
> grievances were addressed by the only means available -- through the
> Lex Salicia Iudiciaria. Is this the best solution? I don't think so,
> but it seems to be the only possible solution. I would rather Nova
> Roma develop a sort of OMBUDSMAN who fields complaints from citizens
> and who then would report to the consules (or praetores) and the
> senate, whereby the senate (under the direction of the consules) would
> develop an equitable solution via consular (or praetorian) edict and
> senatus consulta.
>
> One problem we have in Nova Roma is to deal with every problem as the
> ancient Romans did. The ancient Romans used trials, and they used
> them often. However, that doesn't seem like something that is suited
> for the disposition that we have in our world today. The Romans were
> localized (within Rome) while we are scattered throughout the globe.
> A less cumbersome and lofty means of dealing with interpersonal
> disputes might be worth investigating. Making the praetores the
> ombudsmen of Nova Roma, and allowing them to work with the other
> magistrates and the senate seems like a better solution. However,
> this would probably require a constitutional amendment which is almost
> impossible to accomplish, but might be worth trying.
>

I agree with all of that. This is what we should've had to begin with.

> "...and I will not be silent..."
>
> And neither will I.
>

Copy cat. ;)


Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55681 From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve T. Galeri

Anything that you need to say about the trial should be such apud
iudices (on the list of the Tribunals), anything else you do is just to
get noticed and get publicity.

The trial date was set 15 days ago, your appointment as an attorney was
made 7 days ago. In other words, for seven days you know that you must
be in a trial, but still doing demagoguery from the Rostra.

The Comitia Tributa has not yet been convened, then you can perfectly
attend the trial.

Finally, if one or more of the judges did not satisfy you, you can
dismiss he or she or them and other iudice-s will be appointed, but this
must be done in court.

Cura ut valeas

M•CVRIATIVS•COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55682 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit

"Wasn't the advocate picked as a judge in the case?"

The last I checked Tiberius Galerius Paulinus was an advocatus for Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus in the provocatio to my case against Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus.  The case in question is a case brought against Cincinnatus by Consul Piscinus.  Different case, but it would seem a conflict to have Paulinus arguing a provocatio and serving as a Iudex.

"Most organizations don't have virtual courts(which consists of a mailing list). The way we address grievances is overkill."

The way we handle grievances is Roman.  Although, it might not be the best solution to our needs. 

"Exactly, and having "virtual trials" makes us look like a game. We have no way to enforce the law, any person "convicted" can simply just quit NR."

It takes a lot of time and effort to write laws, to hold trials, and to do much of the administrative things necessary to keep Nova Roma running effectively.  While many things might seem like a game, I can assure you that many of us have better uses for our time.  Complutensis, for example, does an enormous amount of work as a scriba within my cohores -- which by the way is a completely apolitical entity as any of my scriba will attest.  Holding a trial is a lot of work.  It would be great if they were unnecessary, and Nova Roma had other means in which we could compel people to work together for our common good.

However, some people, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus for example, refuse to follow our laws and work for the common good and actually work contrary to progress.  When all negotiating efforts have failed a trial is the only other recourse in Nova Roma.  If the person refuses to work with the system and decides to leave instead, then that is their choice and ultimately we are probably better off.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"


<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit
>
> "Any citizen can act like a lawyer or a judge, which is just absurd."
>
> Praetores are tasked with "administering the law." Having an internal
> means in which to deal with disputes is neither absurd or
> role-playing.

The means by which we are witnessing is entirely absurd. Wasn't the
advocate picked as a judge in the case? When does the ever happen in
any court?


The system we have may need changing, so it may be
> cumbersome, difficult, etc... but it is hardly absurd. If Nova Roma
> does in fact endeavor to be a civitas then it is reasonable to assume
> that we will have internal means in which to deal with disputes.
>

Most organizations don't have virtual courts(which consists of a
mailing list). The way we address grievances is overkill.


> "In the REAL world, does anyone ever go to court for not letting
> someone on a mailing list? Why should we act any different if we're
> not roleplaying?"
>
> I had an SCA friend once ask me, "What time frame is Nova Roma and how
> does your persona fit into it?" I advised my friend that there are no
> personas in Nova Roma, like they have in the SCA. That we exist in
> the "real world" while utilizing a Roman name for sake of fostering
> Roman identity. Nothing about Nova Roma is role-playing (except for
> some of the narratives presented within our Ludi events). We are in
> the real world. This is not some sort of Roman interactive game. It
> might be a mailing list (several mailing lists actually), but that
> doesn't make it any less real.
>

Exactly, and having "virtual trials" makes us look like a game. We
have no way to enforce the law, any person "convicted" can simply just
quit NR.


> "If someone has a complaint about another person deal with it like
> normal people."
>
> Complain on the main list? Issue rant after rant? No thanks.

No, that happens anyway. I'm talking about exactly what you reference
below. Many organizations and businesses have an Ombudsman and makes
use of alternative dispute resolution.


> Efforts have been made to deal with the likes of Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus by several people. People who sought a harmonious
> solution, but their efforts were ignored. So, as civilized people the
> grievances were addressed by the only means available -- through the
> Lex Salicia Iudiciaria. Is this the best solution? I don't think so,
> but it seems to be the only possible solution. I would rather Nova
> Roma develop a sort of OMBUDSMAN who fields complaints from citizens
> and who then would report to the consules (or praetores) and the
> senate, whereby the senate (under the direction of the consules) would
> develop an equitable solution via consular (or praetorian) edict and
> senatus consulta.
>
> One problem we have in Nova Roma is to deal with every problem as the
> ancient Romans did. The ancient Romans used trials, and they used
> them often. However, that doesn't seem like something that is suited
> for the disposition that we have in our world today. The Romans were
> localized (within Rome) while we are scattered throughout the globe.
> A less cumbersome and lofty means of dealing with interpersonal
> disputes might be worth investigating. Making the praetores the
> ombudsmen of Nova Roma, and allowing them to work with the other
> magistrates and the senate seems like a better solution. However,
> this would probably require a constitutional amendment which is almost
> impossible to accomplish, but might be worth trying.
>

I agree with all of that. This is what we should've had to begin with.


> "...and I will not be silent..."
>
> And neither will I.
>

Copy cat. ;)


Annia Minucia Marcella
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55683 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Anniae Minuciae Marcellae salutem dicit
>
> "Wasn't the advocate picked as a judge in the case?"
>
> The last I checked Tiberius Galerius Paulinus was an advocatus for
Lucius
> Equitius Cincinnatus in the provocatio to my case against Lucius
Equitius
> Cincinnatus. The case in question is a case brought against
Cincinnatus by
> Consul Piscinus. Different case, but it would seem a conflict to have
> Paulinus arguing a provocatio and serving as a Iudex.
>

Exactly, how would this happen in a real court?

> "Most organizations don't have virtual courts(which consists of a
mailing
> list). The way we address grievances is overkill."
>
> The way we handle grievances is Roman. Although, it might not be
the best
> solution to our needs.
>

It isn't roman. Romans had real courts, not virtual ones. When they
convicted someone, it actually had a consequence. You couldn't "quit"
Ancient Rome.


> Holding a trial is a lot of work. It would be great if they were
> unnecessary, and Nova Roma had other means in which we could compel
people
> to work together for our common good.
>

They ARE unnecessary.



> However, some people, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus for example, refuse to
> follow our laws and work for the common good and actually work
contrary to
> progress.

If someone is refusing to follow a law, what makes you think you can
enforce any kind of punishment on them? The only thing within the
power of NR is banning someone from office or membership. That's it.
And it doesn't resolve the conflict, it only gets rid of it until
someone other guy doesn't feel like cooperating.


When all negotiating efforts have failed a trial is the only
> other recourse in Nova Roma.

I gave a solution to the problem about mailing lists, but no one wants
to do it. If NR had set up official mailing lists(or forums) with
neutral mods/admins instead of relying on it's citizens to do it there
would be no conflict of private vs NR owned mailing lists. I am
currently the sole owner of the Nova Britannia list. I could easily
delete all the archives, photos, and remove members at will. And no
one would be able to stop me. I wouldn't ever do this but this
shouldn't be how it's set up. The lists shouldn't be made vulnerable
to abuse and selfishness. The former PM deleted all of his archives,
the Auger wouldn't let people join, none of that should've happened.
We should be working on preventing these things in the future and not
worrying about how we should punish these people for having control of
their own mailing lists. If someone is listed as "owner" then they are
the owner, not Nova Roma.



If the person refuses to work with the system
> and decides to leave instead, then that is their choice and
ultimately we
> are probably better off.
>

The system needs to work before a person should work with the system.

Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55685 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Tribuna,

Actually the Tribune list was made by me as a private list in order to make
it easier for the Tribunes to communicate between eachother. I also
forwarded important emails to the list as well as relevant laws etc. so that
I would have all of my relevant Tribune stuff in one place.

When the Tribunes were elected the following year, I realized that it would
be a shame if I didn't let the following Tribunes make use of everything
that I had gathered. So I deleted anything that the Tribunes of 2004
wouldn't need (for example internal discussions between the Tribunes of
2003) and gave the list it to the next senior Tribune. So it was indeed a
private list which was given away. What the Tribunes after me did with it
would be up to them.

That said, we are sliding away from the point that the Tribunes should have
vetoed the fining of Cincinnatus Augur.

Vale,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55686 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
Munera Gladiatoria FInals of the Ludi Conditorum 2761 a.U.c.



== 1:15 PM ==

Salvete omnes! This is M. Verus Paenula of the Aedilician Network
bringing you live coverage of the conclusion of the Munera
Gladiatoria events of the Ludi Conditorum!

We are here at the Flavian Amphitheatre this afternoon for the Munera
Gladiatoria Finals match! A battle for Victory between Ludus
Praesinus and Ludus Venetus. The weather is just absolutely beautiful
and sunny, the temperature a comfortable 59°F (15°C), and the Greens
and Blues have come out in force for today's main event at the
Colosseum.

Today's Finals match is unique in that it features a Murmillo versus
a Secutor. Essentially the same type of gladiator and apparently
equally matched from our sources inside the Colosseum. This match
should turn out to prove to be a good one!

Vendors who have come out for the day's festivities are experiencing
a large number of patrons, and we are going to speak with one of
these vendors now. This is Gaius and Lucius Calpurnius, who are olive
vendors and have traveled here from Messana in Sicily to profit from
the week's events here in the city. Lucius, can you tell us about
the crowds this week.

Lucius states, "The crowds have been good, except for yesterday, the
day being Dies Ater. Earlier in the week the rains slowed business
some, but today has made up for any losses. We expect good business
the next three days.

Gaius, can you tell us a little bit about the gladiator's diet?

Gaius spits out an olive pit and says, "Yes, the gladiator must have
olivesÂ…and lots of them! Those who want to be gladiators must also
eat lots of olives! As well as their familia and friends!"

Gaius, what kind of olives are you currently selling? I mean, if I
were to pursue a new career as a gladiator, what would you
recommend?

Gaius scratches his head and says, "You can eat any type you wish. We
have them all! We have the classic Greek brine cured Kalamata olive,
which has a deep purple color and a fruity flavor. Moroccan salt/oil
cured olives, which have a wrinkly exterior and a very tart, salty
flavor are also some of our good sellers. We also have another type
of salt cured olive, the Nyons olive, from Gallia. In addition to
Nyons olives, we also have te Gallic Nicoise olives, which are small
and extremely tart. As well, we sell some other more unusual types of
olives, including the Spanish sherry cured Empeltre, along with
Lugano olives, a salt cured variety from here on the Italian
Penninsula. Some of our olives are cured and packed with herbs, such
as the Toscanelle olive. We can also sell you the Italian Cerignola
olives, which are a sweet olive in both green and black incarnations.
In addition to the Manzanilla, many customers enjoy Sicilian olives,
which are cured in brine and herbs, and frequently stuffed with other
pickled vegetables. You might also try the green olive equivalent to
the Kalamata, the Naphlion, a brine cured Greek olive, or the Gallic
Picholine olives, which are cured in salt brine, resulting in a rich
salty flavor. The choice is yours!"

Thank you Gaius and Lucius for that information and good luck with
sales!

We are going to take a short break here at the vendors' olive cart to
sample the goods, then meet you inside in few minutes.



== 1:30 PM ==

As we make our way onto the terraces, we see Censor Modianus with
several members of the priesthood discussing a recent vision by
Sacerdos Diana Aventina, concerning Venus and Concordia, which has
alarmed some cives as the CP has issued some interesting decisions in
the past weeks. As the crowds fill the seats, the opening ceremony
beginsÂ…


== 1:45 PM ==

Banners waving and snapping sharply in the cool, afternoon breeze,
the opening processional enters the arena. On the top of the
Colosseum, velaria have been extended to shade spectators from the
bright sun this afternoon. The sun is shining through the different
colored screen, casting an absolutely beautiful glowing rainbow of
colors down onto the sand! The musicians come into the arena,
playing with a triumphant beat, leading in the cast of today's
performances into the arena. Behind the musicians comes the
Praefectus Gladitorius M. Cassius Phillipus of the Sodalitas
Militarium and the guest inspector of the weapons in today's matches.
Next, come the magistrate corps: the Curule Aedile Sex. Lucilius
Tutor (P. Memmius Albucius has been temporarily dispatched for a few
days to Gallia to speak with colleagues there), followed by Quaestors
L. Vitellius Triarius and M. Hortensia Maior and the Aedilian cohors.
Behind them come the Consules, M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T.
Iulius Sabinus.


(Click Here to listen to the Gladiatorial Music:
http://tinyurl.com/2deffc)


Behind the Consules come the Gladiators of the Finals and their
Lanistae, and the crowd, filled with excitement, signals their
approval:

First is Sarmatus the Secutor of Ludus Praesinus, sponsored by Gaia
Aurelia Falco Silvana. Next comes Arthmail Ansgar the Murmillo of
Ludus Venetus, sponsored by Q. Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus.

As the musicians make a circle around the arena, then find their
appointed seats, the Praefectus finishes his inspection of the
weapons and requests that one of the gladii be replaced. The
attendants are shown that the gladius' hilt has been cracked. With
the replacement inspected, the Praefectus now signals his approval to
the officials that all the weapons are "probatio armorum." The
Consules, now seated, await the start of the games, while Quaestor
Vitellius prepares to start the match.

Scriba Crispus is announcing the rules of the matches to the
contestants, and Scribae Poplicola are going over the last minute
details and any changes before the start of the matches. Quaestor
Hortensia is checking with each Lanista to ensure the participants
are properly registered with their respective Ludus, while the crowds
continue to move in and find seats.

Sacerdos et Scriba Lentulus offers a special ceremony to Fides,
Concordia et Mars in preparation of the opening of the match, then
makes the opening announcements:

"Citizens, we welcome you all to today's matchÂ…the Finals of the
Conditorum! The refreshments today are provided to Citizens as
follows: Wine is provided by the Heculanum Guild of Wine Makers and
cakes are provided by the Lower Aventine Guild of Bakers. The Lower
Aventine Guild of Bakers uses only the finest Roman grain. The Match
will begin momentarily between Sarmatus the Secutor of Ludus
Praesinus and Arthmail Ansgar the Murmillo of Ludus Venetus."

Quaestor Vitellius stands up, faces the Consules, who signal their
approval for the games to begin, then turns to face the arena. He
pulls the mappa from inside his toga, slowly raises his right arm,
the crowd waits impatiently, and then the mappa fallsÂ…



== 2:00 PM ~ Finals Match I ==

As the mappa falls, the gates are opened and the gladiators enter the
arena. As the combatants enter the field, the crowd
chantsÂ… "Sarmatia!" on one side of the arena and "Hail, Arthmail!" on
the other. The combatants are equally match and are both of the same
basic type of gladiator, fighting basically in the same style. Both
contestants are veteran fighters, and skilled in the tactics of the
Legionarii. They both understand this match is more a match of wits
than skill. They make no premature or inexperienced moves towards
the other. At once, the Secutor advances and engages the Murmillo!
They exchange jabs and thrusts, but both equally block the other's
attacks with their scutum. After a brief exchange, both competitors
back off and are now circling the arena opposite of each other.
Again, the Secutor attempts a series of repeated thrusts towards the
Murmillo, with no luck. Now, the Murmillo charges the Secutor,
delivering a terrible bash with the scutum, which knocks the Secutor
off his feet and to the ground! The Murmillo wastes no time in
executing a death blow, but it is repelled as the Secutor issues a
groin kick, which causes the Murmillo to misdirect his blow to the
right side of the Secutor. Back on his feet, the Sarmatian retreats
some and prepares himself for the retaliation, which comes almost
immediately. The Murmillo spins toward the Sarmatian and charges
him. The two gladiatores impact and the Secutor's scutum breaks in
half. Useless now, the Sarmation discards the broken shield, to
which the Murmillo throws his to the side as well. Now, its gladius
to gladius! They exchange blows, over and over, the Murmillo rapidly
attacking the Secutor with every once of strength. The Secutor
defends bravely, as he hopes the Murmillo will run out of energy
soon. The Murmillo attempts a chest thrust, which the Secutor
deflects and immediately returns a connecting blow to the Murmillo's
right arm. The Murmillo backs off and is bleeding profusely. The
Secutor readies for the oncoming advance. The Murmillo is forces to
use the gladius in his left hand. He attacks the Sarmatian with
precision and skill, but cannot enforce his will on the Secutor. The
Secutor now begins to increase the intensity of his attacks and
issues an erratic series of thrusts toward the Murmillo, which causes
him some confusion in his defense. This momentary loss of judgment
allows the Sarmatian to clip the Murmillo's gladius, flipping it out
of the Murmillo's hands, into the air, up and over the Secutor,
landing on the sand behind. The Murmillo, now weaponless, yields to
the Secutor! The crowds come out of their seats and pandemonium
breaks loose on the terraces above! The cheering is deafening. The
Lanista and officials of the Ludus Praesinus run out onto the sand
and lift the Victor into the air, carrying him over to the awards
ceremony. As the officials attempt to silence the crowd, several
fights between the Greens and the Blues break out, but are
effectively quelled by the area staff.

* VICTOR: Sarmatus, the Secutor of Ludus Praesinus

* 2nd Place: Arthmail Ansgar, the Murmillo of Ludus Venetus



== 2:30 PM ~ Closing Ceremony ==

As the officials clear the sand, the gladiators from today's matches
are saluted by the Aedilician Cohors, and Quaestor Vitellius honors
the Victor of the Munera Gladiatoria of the Conditorum:

Quaestor Vitellius addresses the crowd:
Sarmatus the Secutor of Ludus Praesinus, sponsored by the veteran
Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana, has indeed performed spectacularly this
afternoon. Out of the Sarmatian wilderness he came, originally to
care for the magnificent breeding stock of Sarmatian
horses of the Domus Aurelia Falco. Sarmatus, never surprised, fights
with the cunning of the steppe wolf, and often looks as if he is
hunting his opponent rather than simply fighting them. Fleet and
fast as the horses of his homeland, at 20 years of age, he is nearly
as powerful as the mighty bears for which his native land is famous.
Now, no longer a novice of the arena, we declare him Victor!"

The crowd erupts into a deafening applause as Curule Aedile Lucilius
presents him with a golden corona and Quaestor Hortensia presents
Gaia Aurelia with a specially-engraved and gilded gladius
Hispaniensis in honor of the 10th anniversary of the Respublica.

As the afternoon settles, many of the spectators are leaving the
Colosseum now to attend the Ludi Circenses Semi-Finals about to begin
in the Circus Maximus, around the southeastern side of the Palatine
Hill. Ludus Praesinus officials announce a special banquet to be held
in honor of the Victor at Ludus Praesinus after the Circenses.


This is M. Verus Paenula, bringing you LIVE REPORTING from the
Flavian Amphitheatre and we will see you at the Circus Maximus for
the Circenses Semi-Finals races of the Conditorum!

Di vos incolumes custodiant!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55687 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve Minucia,

> The means by which we are witnessing is entirely absurd. Wasn't the
> advocate picked as a judge in the case? When does the ever happen in
> any court?

I'm glad that someone else noticed that but me... This entire affair is
corrupt.

And I know how this one will end up: citizens will get exhausted arguing
about it and it will just get swept under the rug as so any illegal actions
have been swept away. I for one am not going to forget this.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55688 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Piece of Nova Roman history
Salve Palladius,

> Nova Roma is dedicated to the revival of classical Roman religion,
> arts, and culture. Our emphasis is on the historically accurate
> revival of the Religio Romana, with modern interpolations only where
> the primary sources are silent, and with nods to modern sensibilities
> when absolutely necessary. If you are interested in Classical Roman
> religion, mythology, and culture, please feel free to visit our web
> site at http://www.novaroma.org

I remember finding that advert and my heart started to pound with excitement
because I felt as if I'd come home.

Vale,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55689 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salve Tribuna,

> However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy to further
> one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged episode of
> divination.

I don't need to allege anything regarding divination or anything else. I am
not a newbie to Paganism. I am one of the founders of the Pagan Federation
International, which is the international branch of the largest and oldest
(30 years) Pagan organization in the world. I am the editior of Pagan World
magazine since 1999-- the fourth longest running Pagan magazine in the world
and the one with by far the largest international readership (28 countries).
Next issue will feature an article about a group that I belong too that
started with good intentions, but later was taken overs with those with ill
intent and threw out its founder. I'll be sure to post the link to the
online version of the article here.

And I have no political agenda. It always makes me laugh when people say
that. If you saw someone abused in your back yard, would you not report it
because you had no plans to run for President of the USA? One doesn't need a
political agenda to stand up and speak out when one sees something that
isn't right.

Vale,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55690 From: Gaius Marcius Crispus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Certamen historicum Ludi Conditorum - Historical quiz about Nova Rom
Salvete omnes

And so we come to the final stage of the contest, and here are the
final 8 questions.

This has been an exciting contest, and the positions at the front of
the race are very close. But there is still time for a change in
fortunes, so be sure to take part!

Please post your answers to the following email address by, at the
very latest, 6pm Rome time on Wednesday 5 March. The final answers
and the final positions will be published immediately after 6pm
Wednesday.

Post your answers to:

jbshr1pwa@...

And off we go with the final questions.

17. Name the 3 orders into which citizens are classed.

18. What is the minimum age, to the exact day, to become a full
citizen?


CURRENT EVENTS

19. What is a provocatio?

20. Before the current one, presented on Feb. 20th this year, how
many have there been, and who were the registering magistrates?


MEETING UP.

21. Where and when was the fifth European Conventus Novae Romae held?

22. Who was the Governor of the Province in which it was held that
year?

23. Two citizens travelled all the way from the USA to attend this
5th Conventus. Who were they?

24. Where and when will the next European Conventus be held?

I hope you enjoy working on these. Good luck to you all.

Valete optime

C Marcius Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55691 From: C. Aurelia Falco Silvana Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
C. Aurelia Falco omnibus civibus Novae Romae SPD.

> == 1:30 PM ==
>
> As we make our way onto the terraces, we see Censor Modianus with
> several members of the priesthood discussing a recent vision by
> Sacerdos Diana Aventina, concerning Venus and Concordia, which has
> alarmed some cives as the CP has issued some interesting decisions
> in the past weeks. As the crowds fill the seats, the opening
> ceremony beginsÂ…
>
Fortuna has smiled on Domus Aurelia Falco as never before.
We refrain from further comment on this topic.

>
> (Click Here to listen to the Gladiatorial Music:
> http://tinyurl.com/2deffc)
>
Thank you, thank you, thank you for these snippets of
Roman music. They added so much to the mood of each event.
I played and replayed each clip while reading the commentaries.

<snip>
>
> == 2:30 PM ~ Closing Ceremony ==
>
> As the officials clear the sand, the gladiators from today's matches
> are saluted by the Aedilician Cohors, and Quaestor Vitellius honors
> the Victor of the Munera Gladiatoria of the Conditorum:
>
> Quaestor Vitellius addresses the crowd:
> Sarmatus the Secutor of Ludus Praesinus, sponsored by the veteran
> Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana, has indeed performed spectacularly this
> afternoon. Out of the Sarmatian wilderness he came, originally to
> care for the magnificent breeding stock of Sarmatian
> horses of the Domus Aurelia Falco. Sarmatus, never surprised, fights
> with the cunning of the steppe wolf, and often looks as if he is
> hunting his opponent rather than simply fighting them. Fleet and
> fast as the horses of his homeland, at 20 years of age, he is nearly
> as powerful as the mighty bears for which his native land is famous.
> Now, no longer a novice of the arena, we declare him Victor!"
>
> The crowd erupts into a deafening applause as Curule Aedile Lucilius
> presents him with a golden corona and Quaestor Hortensia presents
> Gaia Aurelia with a specially-engraved and gilded gladius
> Hispaniensis in honor of the 10th anniversary of the Respublica.
>
Fans of Sarmatus are invited to collect his handprint as they leave
the amphitheatre via Portus XX.

We have commissioned a statue and shrine to Fortuna, to be installed
at the Tavern of the Elephant (one of the Domus's best
revenue-generators). Sarmatus gets serious time off after the Ludi
Circenses, since he will assist with grooming the horses.

So it's off to the Circus, and another marvelous day produced by the
Aedilician Cohors. Many thanks to reporter Paenula for his brisk
style and varied interviews. We stopped by the olive vendor and were
well and truly pleased.

PS: How much did the vendor pay to get a feature interview like that?

Valete bene in pace Deorum
Silvana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55692 From: marcusroseaus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Back in the fold...
SALVE,
Just want to let it be known (If just for my own satisfaction!)I am
once again a citizen of Rome - Mediatlanticaprovincia. Long story short
is that I left a while ago for various reasons (totally outside of Nova
Roma) and now I am back.

Thanks go out for the recent guidance provided to me by the esteemed
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.

Vale,
Marcus Octavius Roseaus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55693 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve Marcella, et salvete quirites,

I've been making an effort to remain outside this discussion, since I
still may be called on to serve some role in the proceedings.
However, just to address a few points of Roman history and law...

Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:
[...]
>> Paulinus arguing a provocatio and serving as a Iudex.
>
> Exactly, how would this happen in a real court?

It could easily have happened in a Roman court. The juries were made
up of senators, and senators also served as advocates. Since the
courts were standing courts, it was not at all unusual for a senator
who was a member of the standing jury to be excused from one case so
he could argue on behalf of one of the parties to the case.

[...]
> You couldn't "quit" Ancient Rome.

In fact, you could. An awful lot of Romans, knowing they were to be
arrested, took leave of Rome and went to live somewhere else. As for
the realness of our courts, they are as real as our senate and our
comitia. If you don't consider our senate real, what is your
authority to be a governor? How are you able to swear your oath as
governor?

[...]
> If someone is refusing to follow a law, what makes you think you can
> enforce any kind of punishment on them?

It all comes down to somebody's willingness to participate in the
community. If they want to flout the rules, that's their choice. I
think it's better for us all to do this within the framework of a
trial than just letting the Praetors make summary judgments.

> The only thing within the
> power of NR is banning someone from office or membership. That's it.

Yes, that's correct.

> And it doesn't resolve the conflict, it only gets rid of it until
> someone other guy doesn't feel like cooperating.

Then we ban that person from office or membership too.

Vale, et valete,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55694 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: LUDI CONDITORUM: Munera Gladiatoria Finals!
Salve Silvana,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Aurelia Falco Silvana"
<silvanatextrix@...> wrote:
>
> Fortuna has smiled on Domus Aurelia Falco as never before.
> We refrain from further comment on this topic.

LVT: Believe it or not, the dice are in your favor! I keep telling
myself...WOW!


> > (Click Here to listen to the Gladiatorial Music:
> > http://tinyurl.com/2deffc)
> >
> Thank you, thank you, thank you for these snippets of
> Roman music. They added so much to the mood of each event.
> I played and replayed each clip while reading the commentaries.

LVT: My thanks to Gaius Quinctius Flamininus for posting them to
RomanSpace. They are from the group, Synaulia:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Ancient-Rome-Synaulia/dp/B00000B8MP

> PS: How much did the vendor pay to get a feature interview like
that?

LVT: Just a random encounter on a sunny afternoon in Roma...LOL!


Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55695 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: obsolete skills
Salve,
 
I still use rabbit ears hehe.
 
Vale,
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:24 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] obsolete skills

Salvete

I bet we could add some "still do thats" to this list:
http://obsoleteskil ls.com/Skills/ Skills

optime valete

Agricola

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55696 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Circenses Semi-Finals!
Circenses Semi-Finals of the Ludi Conditorum 2761 a.U.c.!


== 4:30 PM ~ Live at the Races ==

Salvete Race Fans! This is M. Verus Paenula REPORTING LIVE from the
Circus Maximus this afternoon for the Ludi Circenses Semi-Finals of
the Conditorum!

Today's races are the second round in the first Circenses of the 10th
Anniversary Year of the refounding of the Respublica, and we will be
covering a series of two races in the Circus.

All around the Circus Maximus, the fans are crowding into the track
to find the best seats. Outside, the Locarii (ticket scalpers) are
demanding a horribly inflated price for the best seatsÂ…and they are
getting the denarii! The superb sunny weather has brought out the
masses for the event. Officials are scraping off an epigram, painted
on the side of the Circus, which reads: "Gnipho divitiae locariorum"
or "Gnipho means riches for the ticket scalpers," this evidently
referring to the recent accident and professional recovery on the
scene of Petronius Gnipho, the veteran of the track from Factio
Albata!

We are going to take a short break, then join you inside.



== 4:45 PM ~ Opening Ceremony ==

We are here in the Circus Maximus, as we observe the hoards of fans
who are filing into their seats and waiting for the opening
processional to begin. As we can hear the musicians beginning to
play, the gates open and the musicians enter, playing the Triumphant
Entrance of the Chariots on their Cornicens and Tubacins.


(Click Here to listen to the Charioteer Music:
http://plutusonline.com/midis/benhur.mid)


As the opening processional enters the arena, the track fills with
the multitude of attendants here to support the races today. Next,
Curule Aedile Sex. Lucilius Tutor, followed by Quaestors L. Vitellius
Triarius and M. Hortensia Maior and the Aedilian cohors enter the
Circus on chariots provided by the various factiones. Behind them
come the Consules, M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius
Sabinus, and Cohors Scriba and newly-elected Flamen, Q. Valerius
Poplicola, who will be starting the races today.

Finally, come the contestants in today's races, driving their
chariots into the Circus and making a ceremonious passage down the
track along the spina, then turning the post to return up the other
side. The roar of the crowd is tremendous as the charioteers finish
their processional and move to take their places at the gates.
Reading the papyrus handout from the greeters, given to us upon
entrance into the Circus we give you the run-down on today's Semi-
Finals races as issued by the officials at the Trigarium:

Race I ~ Amara Aegeus the Greek of Factio Russata, driving Celeritas
and sponsored by Ti. Arminius Genalius; Lucius of Factio Veneta,
driving the famous Windchaser II, sponsored by Max. Valeria
Messallina, Domina Factionis of the Blues; Aoife of the Silures of
Factio Albata, driving Ars Longa and sponsored by Gn. Equitius
Marinus; and, Merddyn the Celt of Factio Praesina, driving Volcanus,
sponsored by Q. Servilius Priscus.

Race II ~ Bellator Marius of Factio Veneta, driving Venetus Daemon,
sponsored by Q. Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus; Spandex the Vandal of
Factio Praesina, driving the champion Velociraptor, sponsored by Gaia
Aurelia Falco Silvana; Barinthus of Factio Veneta, driving Faolchú
Dubh, sponsored by M. Martianius Lupus; and, T. Iulius Sabinus
Crassus of Factio Russata, driving Aprilis and sponsoring himself.

Looks like the Blues are dominating the entries here today with 3 of
the 8 entries! Praesina comes in with 2 entries, Russata with 2
entries, and Albata with 1 entry. Nevertheless, the fans of all the
factiones have turned out here this wonderful sunny afternoon.

The Aedilician staff has made their inspections and advised the
Drivers of the rules. With everything in place, let's watch as the
races are about to begin.

Quaestor Vitellius stands up, faces the Consules, who signal their
approval for the races to begin. He then reaches in his toga, pulling
out the mappa, and hands it to Flamen Valerius, who then turns to
face the drivers. He slowly raises his right arm, the crowd waits
impatiently, and then the mappa fallsÂ…



== 5:00 PM ~ Semi-Finals Race I ==

As the participants are taking their places along the starting-line
the crowd goes silent and awaits the start with great anticipation.
When the chariots finally take off, the circus completely explodes in
a roaring symphony of voices as the spectators cheers on their
favorites. Celeritas gets a nice start and receives a small advantage
over Ars Longa, Windchaser II and Faolchú Dubh as the chariots enters
the first curve. The gravel spatters under the hoofs of the strained
horses as the drivers are pushing their chariots to their limits. The
spectators are totally ecstatic and their loud cheers are almost
deafening.

As the second dolphin turns, Celeritas is still engaged in a close
struggle with Ars Longa and it seems as is Windchaser II has lost a
few yards to the duo. Faolchú Dubh is following Windchaser II closely
behind. The dust is tremendous as the chariots fly by and turn the
corner.

As the third dolphin is turned down, Celeritas is still in a tiny
lead before Ars Longa, Windchaser II and Faolchú Dubh fight for a
better position. Ars Longa attacks Celeritas on the straight line and
the spectators go crazy on the terraces. Will he make it past the
strong Celeritas? The supporters of his factio surely hope not, and
they are cheering loud for Celeritas as the chariots comes up as the
fourth dolphin is turned down.

Ars Longa and Celeritas are struggling side by side as they race down
the straight-a-way. Windchaser II doesn't seem to be able to
challenge them, but the fight for the first place is between Ars
Longa and Celeritas at this point. Rounding the corner post, everyone
is fighting for the lead position in the cloud of dust that has
developed! Who of them will make it? Celeritas gets the lead and
receives a small advantage over Ars Longa, Windchaser II and Faolchú
Dubh as the chariots enters the next curve. Celeritas makes a really
tight curve, but is strongly challenged by Ars Longa. The drivers are
pushing their chariots to the limit. Windchaser II pushes on to
overtake Faolchú Dubh and ends up a few yards behind the other two
chariots as they struggle on the straight line of the circus.

The chariots fly by as the fifth dolphin is turned down. Ars Longa
and Celeritas has a really breathtaking duel for the lead of the race
as the lap closes up. The spectators are totally ecstatic and their
loud cheers are almost deafening. Windchaser II keeps a good,
constant pace, but he doesn't seem to be able to challenge Ars Longa
and Celeritas at this point. CRASH!!! Windchaser II has crashed into
the spina, parts go flying up into the air, but the chariot is still
racing as the sixth dolphin is turned down!

As Faolchú Dubh races by, a piece of wheel strikes him in the chest
and chin, but this seems to have no effect on the determined driver.
The crowd yells in support! The fight for the first place is we're
the action is! Ars Longa and Celeritas are struggling tremendously as
they come up towards the finishing line as the seventh and last
dolphin is turned down. Ars Longa gets a small advantage with a few
feet as the finish line comes closer and closer. Will he be able to
hold the lead? Â…YESÂ…it is Ars Longa of Factio Albata that crosses the
finish ahead of the rest, closely followed by Celeritas of Factio
Russata who takes the second place, followed by Faolchú Dubh of
Factio Veneta and Windchaser II of Factio Veneta who end up third and
forth, respectively.

On the terraces we can see Consularis Marinus, Petronius Gnipho and
the supporters of Factio Albata cheering wildly as Ars Longa crosses
the finish line! Consularis Marinus is pleased that he will have at
least one of his chariots advance to the Finals!


* 1st Place: Ars Longa of Factio Albata (advances to the Finals)

* 2nd Place: Celeritas of Factio Russata (advances to the Finals)

* 3rd Place: Faolchú Dubh of Factio Veneta

* 4th Place: Windchaser II of Factio Veneta



== 5:30 PM ~ Semi-Finals Race II ==

As the chariots line up for the second race of the day, Flamen
Valerius readies the mappa, the crowd pauses along with the drivers,
the hoses snort wildly with excitement, the mappa falls and off they
go!

Velociraptor speeds off the line and races ahead of the others!
Aprilis also gets a great start and receives a small advantage over
Venetus Daemon and Volcanus as the chariots enter the first curve.
Venetus Daemon makes a really tight curve and strongly challenges
Aprilis on the inside of the curve. Volcanus takes up the fight on
the straight line and struggles to get passed Venetus Daemon on the
inside. Wow!!! Now all three chariots are up side by side and
struggling for leading place as they race down the straight-a-way.
The gravel spatters under the hoofs of the strained horses as the
drivers are pushing their chariots to the limit. The spectators are
totally ecstatic and their loud cheers are almost deafening as the
first dolphin is turned down.

Velociraptor make the turn andÂ…OH NO! Velociraptor starts to slide in
the gravel! He has taken the turn too fast and the chariot begins to
tip over. The driver climbs the frame and throws his weight toward
the rising side, and the chariot falls back to the ground, speeding
down the lane! Nice recovery for Velociraptor! Venetus Daemon is
tightly pressed between the two rival chariots, Volcanus and Aprilis.

The chariots pass by and the second dolphin is turned down. As the
chariots come by all of them are struggling tremendously side by side
as the make another turn. The fight for first place is anybody's at
this point. Volcanus seems to get a small advantage over the other
chariots as the third dolphin is turned down.

Will Venetus Daemon and Aprilis be able to answer to Volcanus?
Venetus Daemon is going really strong and leaves Aprilis a few feet
behind. Will he pass the leading Volcanus? Not yet, currently it is
Volcanus in the first position, tightly followed by Venetus Daemon in
second place and Aprilis, then Velociraptor, as the fourth dolphin is
turned down.

Velociraptor trails behind Venetus Daemon, Aprilis and Volcanus as
the chariots enter the next curve. Venetus Daemon makes a really
tight curve and actually passes Velociraptor on the inside of the
curve. Volcanus takes up the fight on the straight line and struggles
to get past Aprilis and Velociraptor to challenge Venetus Daemon. The
spectators are standing on their seats and their loud cheers are
almost deafening to anyone in the Circus. As they make another turn,
Venetus Daemon is still in the lead, but close behind him Volcanus
and Velociraptor are engaged in a close struggle side by side,
followed by Aprilis.

The fifth dolphin is now turned down, and Volcanus races on the
outside of Velociraptor, which is tightly pressed against the inner
wall of the circus. Will he be able to handle this strenuous
situation? Volcanus is really pressing Velociraptor. Velociraptor
horses stray back and forth, forcing Aprilis to break his team and
circle around, losing much valuable time. Aprilis spatters gravel all
over Velociraptor and the fight is on! Aprilis and Velociraptor are
lashing each other and exchanging remarks and continue this exchange
until the sixth dolphin is turned down. Now, they focus on the race
and press on ahead!

The seventh dolphin has now been turned down, and the charioteers
drive madly down the lanes in this last leg of the race! As the two
leading chariots come up towards the finish line, Volcanus catches up
with Venetus Daemon and they are struggling side-by-side towards the
finish line that is just up ahead in front of them. The fight for the
first place and the ticket for the finals are really pointing towards
Volcanus and Venetus Daemon, without much challenge now. But Volcanus
is going really strong... very strong...and.... yes, it's Volcanus of
Factio Praesina that takes the first place, narrowly ahead of Venetus
Daemon of Factio Veneta in second place, followed by Aprilis of
Factio Russata and then Velociraptor of Factio Praesina.

* 1st Place: Volcanus of Factio Praesina (advances to the Finals)

* 2nd Place: Venetus Daemon of Factio Veneta (advances to the Finals)

* 3rd Place: Aprilis of Factio Russata

* 4th Place: Velociraptor of Factio Praesina



== 6:00 PM ~ Closing Ceremony ==

As the officials clear the track, the winning drivers and their teams
from today's races circle the spina are saluted by the spectators,
fans of the factiones, the Aedilician Cohors, and the many
Magistrates here today. As the Gods would have it be, and with no
intervention by the officials clocking this race, the Finals race
will be held, with each Factio represented! Quaestor Vitellius is
pleased and announces the winners who are to advance to the Finals
race tomorrow:


* Ars Longa of Factio Albata, sponsored by Gn. Equitius Marinus

* Celeritas of Factio Russata, sponsored by T. Arminius Genialis

* Volcanus of Factio Praesina, sponsored by Q. Servilius Priscus

* Venetus Daemon of Factio Veneta, sponsored by Q. Vitellius Triarus
Avitus


As the sun sets in a beautiful orange glow, many of the spectators
are leaving the Colosseum now to attend the various factiones'
festivities at locations throughout the city.

This is M. Verus Paenula, bringing you LIVE REPORTING from the Circus
Maximus and we will see you here again tomorrow for the Ludi
Circenses Finals race of the Conditorum!


Di vos incolumes custodiant!



You may also view the Circenses races on the official Ludi Conditorum
pages at: http://tinyurl.com/yu8rv6
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55697 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Back in the fold...
Salve Marce Octavi!

Welcome back!

Vale optime,
Triarius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcusroseaus"
<chazmatazz.rosa@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE,
> Just want to let it be known (If just for my own satisfaction!)I am
> once again a citizen of Rome - Mediatlanticaprovincia. Long story
short
> is that I left a while ago for various reasons (totally outside of
Nova
> Roma) and now I am back.
>
> Thanks go out for the recent guidance provided to me by the
esteemed
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.
>
> Vale,
> Marcus Octavius Roseaus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55698 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve Iulius Caesar;
Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented sources of
Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have biases
too.

He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into certain
cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or represent
the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him wrong in
her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.

Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and religious law,
and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it is a non-
issue.

Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the plebs,
reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova where
the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard in the
silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human voice
bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were approaching. No
notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of the
informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and therefore
an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only that
were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human aid
which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed from the
City
After the end of the war with the Gauls:
Livy 32.50.3
Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the neglect of
the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster before the
war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in the
Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.

I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I showed,
Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus, about
recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.

bene vale in pacem Concordiae
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis

producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
reading list for the cultus deorum:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods




> Scheid goes onto say:
>
> "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to the
magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
>
> So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he claims
did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
>
> Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods were
angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly what he is
saying.
>
> Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have run
shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their heads, like
lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning their city,
but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this display of
anger.
>
> That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the Gods
weren't angry/displeased though.
>
> Comment?
>
> Vale bene
> Caesar
>
>
> Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
> Salve Palladi;
> your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman religion.
> Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at
Oxford
> and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put on
the
> list.
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
>
> When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a solutions
to
> restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
>
> Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.' This
is
> the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East, your
> various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And
naturally
> Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude is
with
> us today.
> Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-
Roman
> Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
>
>
>
>
> ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
(ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
†®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-µäƒ2w„†]
gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?ÔC '
hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
[êŠaÒРŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55699 From: Diana Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve Modianus,

> The last I checked Tiberius Galerius Paulinus was an advocatus for Lucius
> Equitius Cincinnatus in the provocatio to my case against Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus.
>The case in question is a case brought against Cincinnatus by Consul
>Piscinus.

In the real world isn't it illegal to be tried twice for the same crime?
Isn't this second trial against Cincinnatus Augur the same as the first?

Vale,
Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55700 From: Va. Carper Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: obsolete skills
Salve,
I darn socks. Prefer wearing them out before buying
new ones

Vale,
Appia Verginia Mus


snork5902g@...

“Animals of the Road come part of the way. Animals of the Heart with you always stay.” (c)

ANIMAL TEACHERS
http://www.funkman.org/animal/welcome.html
Receive gifts from the animals. Take courses to further your knowledge. Discover your Animal Teachers.

My blog: Nature's Meanings
http://naturemeanings.blogspot.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55701 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Dianae Octaviae Aventinae salutem dicit
 
The charges, to my understanding, are different.  But then, you really are not interested in my answer are you?  If you are trying to "bait" me into some sort of debate with you, you are wasting your time.
 
Vale:
 
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Diana Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

Salve Modianus,



> The last I checked Tiberius Galerius Paulinus was an advocatus for Lucius
> Equitius Cincinnatus in the provocatio to my case against Lucius Equitius
> Cincinnatus.
>The case in question is a case brought against Cincinnatus by Consul
>Piscinus.

In the real world isn't it illegal to be tried twice for the same crime?
Isn't this second trial against Cincinnatus Augur the same as the first?

Vale,
Diana Octavia 
.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55702 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
The *ancients* said that women weren't allowed into the cult of
Hercules. There is *some* disagreement. Don't overstate your case.

Macrobius, Sat., 1.12.28 "In Italy women are not allowed to take part
in the cult of Hercules because, when Hercules was driving the cattle
of Geryon through the fields of Italy and was thirsty, a woman said
that she could not provide him water, for it was the day on which the
goddess of women was honored and it was forbidden for men to taste
anything from the sacred utensils."

Propertius IV.9 essentially says the same thing.

As far as Schultz's arguments go, I find her statement about Claudius
and bribery as implicating direct female worship to be seriously lacking.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Iulius Caesar;
> Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented sources of
> Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have biases
> too.
>
> He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into certain
> cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or represent
> the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him wrong in
> her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.
>
> Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and religious law,
> and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it is a non-
> issue.
>
> Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
> It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the plebs,
> reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova where
> the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard in the
> silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human voice
> bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were approaching. No
> notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of the
> informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and therefore
> an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only that
> were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human aid
> which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed from the
> City
> After the end of the war with the Gauls:
> Livy 32.50.3
> Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the neglect of
> the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster before the
> war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in the
> Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.
>
> I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I showed,
> Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus, about
> recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.
>
> bene vale in pacem Concordiae
> M. Hortensia Maior
> sacerdos Mentis
>
> producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> reading list for the cultus deorum:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
>
>
>
>
> > Scheid goes onto say:
> >
> > "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to the
> magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
> >
> > So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he claims
> did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
> >
> > Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods were
> angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly what he is
> saying.
> >
> > Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have run
> shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their heads, like
> lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning their city,
> but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this display of
> anger.
> >
> > That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the Gods
> weren't angry/displeased though.
> >
> > Comment?
> >
> > Vale bene
> > Caesar
> >
> >
> > Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> > Salve Palladi;
> > your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman religion.
> > Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at
> Oxford
> > and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put on
> the
> > list.
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> >
> > When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> > thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a solutions
> to
> > restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
> >
> > Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.' This
> is
> > the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East, your
> > various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And
> naturally
> > Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude is
> with
> > us today.
> > Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-
> Roman
> > Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
> tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
> rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
> rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
> 45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
> (ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
> †®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-µäƒ2w„†]
> gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
> i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?ÔC '
> hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
> [êŠaÒÐ ŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
> Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55703 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve Modianus,
 
<The charges, to my understanding, are different.  But then, you really are not interested in my answer are you?  If you are trying to "bait" me into some sort of debate with you, you are >wasting your time.
 
That was a genuine question. In any case, I've just subscribed to the tribunal list and so I now have the answer. The charges from Piscinus against Cincinnatus Augur are the same as your charges against Cincinnatus. Two court cases for the same 'crime'. He's been found guilty for the first case and now he is in court again for the exact same charges.
 
For the record I about as little interested in baiting you as you are in being baited by me. I am, however, interested in seeing the mob roused enough to remove both you and Piscinus from your offices. It is more likely that you'll run me out of town next, just like you have 4 of my good friends: Drusus, Scaurus, Cincinnatus Augur and now Cassius. Lucky for my paterfamilias Octavius that he owns the NR server!
 
Vale,
Diana 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55704 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Aventina,
yes, with regard to the tribunes list you actually behaved rationally
and in accordance with the interests of the community.

And no, we couldn't just veto the fining of Cincinnatus Augur, not
without vetoing the whole edict.
Anyway I remind you that we tribunes can also issue intercessio on
request of any citizen, they just have to send us the request stating
which paragraphs of which laws have been violated.
We didn't get any such request, because probably, just like us, other
people couldn't find a law being violated either. And no, people
saying: "tribunes should veto" on the main list without listing the
violated law doesn't count as a request.

Optime vale,
tribuna Plauta

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Tribuna,
>
> Actually the Tribune list was made by me as a private list in order
to make
> it easier for the Tribunes to communicate between eachother. I also
> forwarded important emails to the list as well as relevant laws etc.
so that
> I would have all of my relevant Tribune stuff in one place.
>
> When the Tribunes were elected the following year, I realized that
it would
> be a shame if I didn't let the following Tribunes make use of
everything
> that I had gathered. So I deleted anything that the Tribunes of 2004
> wouldn't need (for example internal discussions between the Tribunes of
> 2003) and gave the list it to the next senior Tribune. So it was
indeed a
> private list which was given away. What the Tribunes after me did
with it
> would be up to them.
>
> That said, we are sliding away from the point that the Tribunes
should have
> vetoed the fining of Cincinnatus Augur.
>
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55705 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DISCORDIALIA - 10TH BIRTHDAY OF NR TODAY
Salve Aventina,
all these credentials do nothing to prove that your "vision" actually
happened and it was inspired by the Goddess.
Two things are suspicious: the lack of particulars about the
circumstances in which it happened, and the fact that the "Goddess"
happened to invoke the exile of two magistrates, indicated with all
their tria nomina. Rather unusual, for a Goddess.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be curious to know if your
"vision" came while you were asleep or awake, and what you had
smoked/ingested/injected before.

However, be sure that no punishment will be applied to anyone on the
basis of a vision, otherwise, from then on, anybody could come up
with: "You have to exile Titius and Caius! God/Goddess X told me so!"

Optime vale,
Plauta


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Tribuna,
>
> > However, this looks to me rather like a shameless ploy to further
> > one's own political agenda with the aid of an alleged episode of
> > divination.
>
> I don't need to allege anything regarding divination or anything
else. I am
> not a newbie to Paganism. I am one of the founders of the Pagan
Federation
> International, which is the international branch of the largest and
oldest
> (30 years) Pagan organization in the world. ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55706 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
I'll remember that, Plauta, that a citizen asking the tribunes to
pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he didn't know
personal email addresses of the tribunes. I also want to thank the
tribunes from hiding the fact that they personally ignored all
statements asking for an intercessio on the main list.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Aventina,
> yes, with regard to the tribunes list you actually behaved rationally
> and in accordance with the interests of the community.
>
> And no, we couldn't just veto the fining of Cincinnatus Augur, not
> without vetoing the whole edict.
> Anyway I remind you that we tribunes can also issue intercessio on
> request of any citizen, they just have to send us the request stating
> which paragraphs of which laws have been violated.
> We didn't get any such request, because probably, just like us, other
> people couldn't find a law being violated either. And no, people
> saying: "tribunes should veto" on the main list without listing the
> violated law doesn't count as a request.
>
> Optime vale,
> tribuna Plauta
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Tribuna,
> >
> > Actually the Tribune list was made by me as a private list in order
> to make
> > it easier for the Tribunes to communicate between eachother. I also
> > forwarded important emails to the list as well as relevant laws etc.
> so that
> > I would have all of my relevant Tribune stuff in one place.
> >
> > When the Tribunes were elected the following year, I realized that
> it would
> > be a shame if I didn't let the following Tribunes make use of
> everything
> > that I had gathered. So I deleted anything that the Tribunes of 2004
> > wouldn't need (for example internal discussions between the
Tribunes of
> > 2003) and gave the list it to the next senior Tribune. So it was
> indeed a
> > private list which was given away. What the Tribunes after me did
> with it
> > would be up to them.
> >
> > That said, we are sliding away from the point that the Tribunes
> should have
> > vetoed the fining of Cincinnatus Augur.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Diana Octavia
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55707 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Tribuna,

I know that you think that I am getting on your case and I am. Sorry for
that (really). But your idea of what a Tribune does are just is not correct.

> And no, people
> saying: "tribunes should veto" on the main list without listing the
> violated law doesn't count as a request.

Sure it does. It is not up to the people to know the law, it is the job of
the Tribunes. There is no law that states that when calling for a veto the
citizen needs to state the law. There is however a law that states that when
a Tribune issues a veto that he/she needs to state the law that was
violated.

When a citizen asks for a veto is is up to the Tribunes to come back with
the relevant law that is being broken or to say why there should not be a
veto and state the law. You have to consider yourself the representative of
the little people of NR-- those of us who think that maybe a law has been
broken and who go to you for help.

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55708 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Poplicola,
no, please remember instead that that a citizen asking the tribunes to
pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he or she did not
quote the law being violated.
The personal email addresses of the tribunes can be aquired from this
mailing list, or messages can be sent through the Album Civium.

I'd like to aks everybody to read my posts before replying. It would
save time.

Optime vale,
L. Livia Plauta

> I'll remember that, Plauta, that a citizen asking the tribunes to
> pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he didn't know
> personal email addresses of the tribunes. I also want to thank the
> tribunes from hiding the fact that they personally ignored all
> statements asking for an intercessio on the main list.
>
> Poplicola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Aventina,
> > yes, with regard to the tribunes list you actually behaved rationally
> > and in accordance with the interests of the community.
> >
> > And no, we couldn't just veto the fining of Cincinnatus Augur, not
> > without vetoing the whole edict.
> > Anyway I remind you that we tribunes can also issue intercessio on
> > request of any citizen, they just have to send us the request stating
> > which paragraphs of which laws have been violated.
> > We didn't get any such request, because probably, just like us, other
> > people couldn't find a law being violated either. And no, people
> > saying: "tribunes should veto" on the main list without listing the
> > violated law doesn't count as a request.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > tribuna Plauta
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Tribuna,
> > >
> > > Actually the Tribune list was made by me as a private list in order
> > to make
> > > it easier for the Tribunes to communicate between eachother. I also
> > > forwarded important emails to the list as well as relevant laws etc.
> > so that
> > > I would have all of my relevant Tribune stuff in one place.
> > >
> > > When the Tribunes were elected the following year, I realized that
> > it would
> > > be a shame if I didn't let the following Tribunes make use of
> > everything
> > > that I had gathered. So I deleted anything that the Tribunes of
2004
> > > wouldn't need (for example internal discussions between the
> Tribunes of
> > > 2003) and gave the list it to the next senior Tribune. So it was
> > indeed a
> > > private list which was given away. What the Tribunes after me did
> > with it
> > > would be up to them.
> > >
> > > That said, we are sliding away from the point that the Tribunes
> > should have
> > > vetoed the fining of Cincinnatus Augur.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > Diana Octavia
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55709 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Aventina,

You have to consider yourself the representative of
> the little people of NR-- those of us who think that maybe a law has
been
> broken and who go to you for help.

Here the key word is MAYBE. A citizen may think that maybe a law has
been broken, they say so on the main list, we tribunes go look for a
law that has been broken, we eithere find one, and pronounce
intercessio, or we find none, and that's the end of the matter.
In this particular case, if nobody could quote a law that had been
broken, it's because none was.

I understand it's frustrating to see things not going the way you'd
like, but really, we can't invent a law breach where there is none.

And this is my last word on the matter, because I'm tired of arguing
about this, and I think 90% of our readers are bored to death by now.
Vale,
Plauta

>
> Vale,
> Diana
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55710 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: AEDILIS PLEBIS NEEDED - CALL FOR CANDIDATES
L. Livia Plauta Tribuna Plebis omnibus civibus Novae Romae SPD

A call for CANDIDATES is hereby issued for the office of AEDILIS
PLEBIS, in order to replace Aedilis Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, who
resigned. The candidate who will be accepted by the Comitia Plebis
Tributa by passage of a further plebiscitum de consecratio will begin
his/her terms of office on the first appropriate day after the
plebiscitum. Any and all qualified Plebeian Citizens who desire to
hold this office in the coming months shall:

(1) declare their candidacy to the current Tribuni Plebis and
(2) announce their intentions to run for office before the Comitia
Plebis Tributa (ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com).

Announcements of candidacy for these offices that are made to any
other Nova Roma lists are allowed but will not meet the requirements
needed to be recognized as a candidate. You must post your
announcement to the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Eligibility:

AEDILIS PLEBIS – (one position available) Candidates must be Cives, in
good standing, for at least six full months before taking office on
AUC 2760 a. d. IV Idus Dec (10 Dec 2007). They must be of the Plebeian
Order, Assidui, and at least 21 years of ag. Candidates for Aedilis
Plebis must also have served at least six months as a Tribunus Plebis,
Quaestors, Magister Aranearius, Editor Commentariorum, or Propraetor,
or the candidate must demonstrate that he or she has served as a
scriba to one of the current Aediles Plebis for at least six months.

Time limits for declaring candidacies:

Announcements of candidacy before the Comitia Plebis Tributa and
Declarations of candidacy to the Tribuni Plebis must be received no
later than 23.59 CET 18 March (before Midnight at Rome, 6:00 PM EDT,
or 3:00 PM PDT).

L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55711 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Penal system - do we need it?
Tribuna plebis L. Livia Plauta quiritibus SPD.

Earlier, like Minucia Marcella, I too thought that Nova Roma doesn't
need a judicial system.
However, two factors made me change my mind:
- I have been reminded that NR, like any organization, needs internal
rules and a way to enforce them
- I have been a witness to long and repeated attempts to solve
controversies by other means, but they were unsuccessful.

I think by this time everybody agrees that the leges Saliciae
(Poenalis and Judiciaria) are imperfect.
After giving some thought to the matter I found out, however, that I'm
unable to write better laws, and the few people I consulted with were
also unable to come up with a better proposal.

So now I pass the question to all citizens.

Can you write something better than the lex Salicia Poenalis or a
modification that will substantially improve it?
If so, please send me your lex draft, and, after debating it with my
colleagues and other magistrates, I will consider submitting it to the
Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Do you think Nova Roma would be better off without a judicial and
penal system? If you can send me a proposal (with concrete lex drafts)
to abolish the leges Saliciae, while still giving the Res Publica an
instrument to prevent citizens from harming it, or to expel them if
they do, then the same as above applies.

I will consider only specific proposals, with actual law drafts.
Generic advice is not what we need. Please send the proposals to me
and not to the main list.

Optime valete omnes,
Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55712 From: Gaius Aemilius Crassus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes

C. Aemilius Crassus Tribuno Luciae Liviae Plautae,

 

I confess that I’m a little confused.

 

You are now saying that you didn’t declare an intercession because no one wrote to the Tribunes pointing were the law were being violated.

 

But weren’t you who have written:

“So what's our duty, that we have been accused of neglecting?

According to the constitution we have to veto anything that violates
the spirit or the letter of the constitution, leges, etc.

Does this mean that we should just stick to making sure no piece of
legislation is ever issued that contrasts with the sequence of
letters, sentences, paragraphs contained in the constitution, leges,
senatus consulta?

Or does it mean that our main duty is to defend the interests of the
community?

I'm convinced that my duty as a tribune is to defend the rights and
interests of the Nova Roman community and of Nova Roman citizens from
possible abuses of power. But in case the rights and interests of one
citizen conflict with those of the community I will always defend the
latter.”

 

So was it because no one pointed to you where the law had been violated or was because that you thought your duty to be to defend the interests of the community above the rights of one citizen?

 

Just wondering.

 

Di te incolumem custodiant.

 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. AEMILIVS CRASSVS
DIRIBITOR NOVAE ROMAE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----
From: Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 11:52:16 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Duty of the tribunes

Salve Aventina,

You have to consider yourself the representative of

> the little people of NR-- those of us who think that maybe a law has
been
> broken and who go to you for help.

Here the key word is MAYBE. A citizen may think that maybe a law has
been broken, they say so on the main list, we tribunes go look for a
law that has been broken, we eithere find one, and pronounce
intercessio, or we find none, and that's the end of the matter.
In this particular case, if nobody could quote a law that had been
broken, it's because none was.

I understand it's frustrating to see things not going the way you'd
like, but really, we can't invent a law breach where there is none.

And this is my last word on the matter, because I'm tired of arguing
about this, and I think 90% of our readers are bored to death by now.
Vale,
Plauta

>
> Vale,
>
Diana
>




Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55713 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve, Plauta.

I've read your posts, tribune. Not only I but also many others quoted
laws showing that it had been violated. We all were ignored. It seems
as though Pompey himself has returned from the dead, for all the laws
we quoted, the swords merely told us to shut up.

Perhaps, tribune, if you had read all the discussion immediately after
the illegal sentence, then you would not have missed it when more than
one citizen pointed out the illegality of it all and asked for the
tribunes to intervene.

I didn't think the posts were being ignored. Therefore I know now to
email the tribunes directly when the laws are being ignored.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Poplicola,
> no, please remember instead that that a citizen asking the tribunes to
> pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he or she did not
> quote the law being violated.
> The personal email addresses of the tribunes can be aquired from this
> mailing list, or messages can be sent through the Album Civium.
>
> I'd like to aks everybody to read my posts before replying. It would
> save time.
>
> Optime vale,
> L. Livia Plauta
>
> > I'll remember that, Plauta, that a citizen asking the tribunes to
> > pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he didn't know
> > personal email addresses of the tribunes. I also want to thank the
> > tribunes from hiding the fact that they personally ignored all
> > statements asking for an intercessio on the main list.
> >
> > Poplicola
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Aventina,
> > > yes, with regard to the tribunes list you actually behaved
rationally
> > > and in accordance with the interests of the community.
> > >
> > > And no, we couldn't just veto the fining of Cincinnatus Augur, not
> > > without vetoing the whole edict.
> > > Anyway I remind you that we tribunes can also issue intercessio on
> > > request of any citizen, they just have to send us the request
stating
> > > which paragraphs of which laws have been violated.
> > > We didn't get any such request, because probably, just like us,
other
> > > people couldn't find a law being violated either. And no, people
> > > saying: "tribunes should veto" on the main list without listing the
> > > violated law doesn't count as a request.
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > tribuna Plauta
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Aventina" <diana@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve Tribuna,
> > > >
> > > > Actually the Tribune list was made by me as a private list in
order
> > > to make
> > > > it easier for the Tribunes to communicate between eachother. I
also
> > > > forwarded important emails to the list as well as relevant
laws etc.
> > > so that
> > > > I would have all of my relevant Tribune stuff in one place.
> > > >
> > > > When the Tribunes were elected the following year, I realized that
> > > it would
> > > > be a shame if I didn't let the following Tribunes make use of
> > > everything
> > > > that I had gathered. So I deleted anything that the Tribunes of
> 2004
> > > > wouldn't need (for example internal discussions between the
> > Tribunes of
> > > > 2003) and gave the list it to the next senior Tribune. So it was
> > > indeed a
> > > > private list which was given away. What the Tribunes after me did
> > > with it
> > > > would be up to them.
> > > >
> > > > That said, we are sliding away from the point that the Tribunes
> > > should have
> > > > vetoed the fining of Cincinnatus Augur.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > > Diana Octavia
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55714 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Salve Poplicola

Amice.

I did email direct to them as indivdiuals and not as a group, and
received one rather stuffy reply from one about what my expectations
were when emailing in the early hours of the morning, did I expect
him to be up at his computer and some other points about not being
compelled to do things just on demand (a summary). Oh, and some
equally pointless comment about patricians.

One finally replied later not being around at the time and I think a
third replied denying my request.

I don't know from my experience that I would say writing direct was
any better a method.

Vale bene
Caesar


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55715 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Dianae Octaviae Aventinae salutem dicit

"It is more likely that you'll run me out of town next, just like you have 4 of my good friends: Drusus, Scaurus, Cincinnatus Augur and now Cassius."

There is no need to run you out, as you indicate.  You'll get tired/bored/busy and disappear for another year, two, or whatever.  Ironically, I was sad, so many years ago, when you didn't get elected consul over Marinus.  It seems the Gods blessed Nova Roma with the better option, and I'm sure history will play out this year differently than you have predicted.

"Lucky for my paterfamilias Octavius that he owns the NR server!"

You are correct, and your paterfamilias has reminded many of us frequently of this fact.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

Salve Modianus,
 
<The charges, to my understanding, are different.  But then, you really are not interested in my answer are you?  If you are trying to "bait" me into some sort of debate with you, you are >wasting your time.
 
That was a genuine question. In any case, I've just subscribed to the tribunal list and so I now have the answer. The charges from Piscinus against Cincinnatus Augur are the same as your charges against Cincinnatus. Two court cases for the same 'crime'. He's been found guilty for the first case and now he is in court again for the exact same charges.
 
For the record I about as little interested in baiting you as you are in being baited by me. I am, however, interested in seeing the mob roused enough to remove both you and Piscinus from your offices. It is more likely that you'll run me out of town next, just like you have 4 of my good friends: Drusus, Scaurus, Cincinnatus Augur and now Cassius. Lucky for my paterfamilias Octavius that he owns the NR server!
 
Vale,
Diana

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55716 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Salve:
and we are talking now about only 1 site, the Ara Maxima, not
others. I didn't make Schulz' argument that women were allowed there
though she does.

I'm not going to worship at the Ara Maxima, until someone makes a
compelling argument.

Feel free to do it and publish it. The point is to be open to new
archeaological finds, and arguments.
bene vale
Maior.



One of the past problems
>
> The *ancients* said that women weren't allowed into the cult of
> Hercules. There is *some* disagreement. Don't overstate your case.
>
> Macrobius, Sat., 1.12.28 "In Italy women are not allowed to take
part
> in the cult of Hercules because, when Hercules was driving the
cattle
> of Geryon through the fields of Italy and was thirsty, a woman said
> that she could not provide him water, for it was the day on which
the
> goddess of women was honored and it was forbidden for men to taste
> anything from the sacred utensils."
>
> Propertius IV.9 essentially says the same thing.
>
> As far as Schultz's arguments go, I find her statement about
Claudius
> and bribery as implicating direct female worship to be seriously
lacking.
>
> Poplicola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Iulius Caesar;
> > Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented sources
of
> > Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have
biases
> > too.
> >
> > He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into certain
> > cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or
represent
> > the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him wrong
in
> > her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.
> >
> > Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and religious
law,
> > and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it is a
non-
> > issue.
> >
> > Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
> > It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the
plebs,
> > reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova
where
> > the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard in
the
> > silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human voice
> > bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were approaching.
No
> > notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of the
> > informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and
therefore
> > an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only
that
> > were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human aid
> > which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed from
the
> > City
> > After the end of the war with the Gauls:
> > Livy 32.50.3
> > Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the neglect
of
> > the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster before
the
> > war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in the
> > Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.
> >
> > I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I
showed,
> > Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus, about
> > recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.
> >
> > bene vale in pacem Concordiae
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> > sacerdos Mentis
> >
> > producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> > reading list for the cultus deorum:
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Scheid goes onto say:
> > >
> > > "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to the
> > magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
> > >
> > > So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he
claims
> > did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
> > >
> > > Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods were
> > angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly what he
is
> > saying.
> > >
> > > Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have run
> > shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their heads,
like
> > lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning their
city,
> > but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this
display of
> > anger.
> > >
> > > That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the
Gods
> > weren't angry/displeased though.
> > >
> > > Comment?
> > >
> > > Vale bene
> > > Caesar
> > >
> > >
> > > Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > Salve Palladi;
> > > your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman
religion.
> > > Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at
> > Oxford
> > > and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put
on
> > the
> > > list.
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > >
> > > When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> > > thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a
solutions
> > to
> > > restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
> > >
> > > Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.'
This
> > is
> > > the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East,
your
> > > various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And
> > naturally
> > > Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude
is
> > with
> > > us today.
> > > Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-
> > Roman
> > > Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
> >
tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
> > rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
> > rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
> > 45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
> > (ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
> > †®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-µäƒ2w„†]
> > gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
> > i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?ÔC '
> > hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
> > [êŠaÒÐ ŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
> > Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55717 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Duty of the tribunes
Agricola Poplicolae S.P.D.

You raise a good point, so let me take this opportunity to address
that, so to speak.

To contact any magistrate,

1. Go to our home page: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page

2. Find "If you need help you can contact a magistrate" at the bottom
of the page and click the link.

3. Select the magistrate that you wish to contact from the drop down
list.

Optime vale in cura deorum!



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
>
> I'll remember that, Plauta, that a citizen asking the tribunes to
> pronounce an intercessio will be ignored because he didn't know
> personal email addresses of the tribunes.


[SNIP]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55718 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Agricola Omnibus sal.

I applaud Tribune Plauta's effort to channel our energies in a
productive direction. She doesn't need generic advice, but I will
offer one bit to you all. Put aside your feelings about what is
"right" and look to Rome.

I am aware that my friend, A. Apollonius Cordus, speaks to this often,
and well. I can't hold a candle to his eloquence and learning on this
matter, so I will stop now in the hope that he will step forward soon.

Optime valete in cura deorum Romanorum


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Tribuna plebis L. Livia Plauta quiritibus SPD.
>
> Earlier, like Minucia Marcella, I too thought that Nova Roma doesn't
> need a judicial system.
> However, two factors made me change my mind:
> - I have been reminded that NR, like any organization, needs internal
> rules and a way to enforce them
> - I have been a witness to long and repeated attempts to solve
> controversies by other means, but they were unsuccessful.
>
> I think by this time everybody agrees that the leges Saliciae
> (Poenalis and Judiciaria) are imperfect.
> After giving some thought to the matter I found out, however, that I'm
> unable to write better laws, and the few people I consulted with were
> also unable to come up with a better proposal.
>
> So now I pass the question to all citizens.
>
> Can you write something better than the lex Salicia Poenalis or a
> modification that will substantially improve it?
> If so, please send me your lex draft, and, after debating it with my
> colleagues and other magistrates, I will consider submitting it to the
> Comitia Plebis Tributa.
>
> Do you think Nova Roma would be better off without a judicial and
> penal system? If you can send me a proposal (with concrete lex drafts)
> to abolish the leges Saliciae, while still giving the Res Publica an
> instrument to prevent citizens from harming it, or to expel them if
> they do, then the same as above applies.
>
> I will consider only specific proposals, with actual law drafts.
> Generic advice is not what we need. Please send the proposals to me
> and not to the main list.
>
> Optime valete omnes,
> Plauta
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55719 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Taxes...
Salve
I would like to pay my taxes but have to pay by cash or money order.   Can some one help me with this?
Vale
QS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55720 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Maior Agricola sal;
well said. Let's do positive things to help or make Roman
changes. I contacted Cordus and he's now assisting Complutensis. So
we now have two lawyers versed in Roman law doing their very best.

I'd be more than happy to appear before a court run by Complutensis
with Cordus' help.
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior
'Vox Romana' podcast
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana



Put aside your feelings about what is
> "right" and look to Rome.
>
> I am aware that my friend, A. Apollonius Cordus, speaks to this
often,
> and well. I can't hold a candle to his eloquence and learning on
this
> matter, so I will stop now in the hope that he will step forward
soon.
>
> Optime valete in cura deorum Romanorum
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
wrote:
> >
> > Tribuna plebis L. Livia Plauta quiritibus SPD.
> >
> > Earlier, like Minucia Marcella, I too thought that Nova Roma
doesn't
> > need a judicial system.
> > However, two factors made me change my mind:
> > - I have been reminded that NR, like any organization, needs
internal
> > rules and a way to enforce them
> > - I have been a witness to long and repeated attempts to solve
> > controversies by other means, but they were unsuccessful.
> >
> > I think by this time everybody agrees that the leges Saliciae
> > (Poenalis and Judiciaria) are imperfect.
> > After giving some thought to the matter I found out, however,
that I'm
> > unable to write better laws, and the few people I consulted with
were
> > also unable to come up with a better proposal.
> >
> > So now I pass the question to all citizens.
> >
> > Can you write something better than the lex Salicia Poenalis or a
> > modification that will substantially improve it?
> > If so, please send me your lex draft, and, after debating it
with my
> > colleagues and other magistrates, I will consider submitting it
to the
> > Comitia Plebis Tributa.
> >
> > Do you think Nova Roma would be better off without a judicial and
> > penal system? If you can send me a proposal (with concrete lex
drafts)
> > to abolish the leges Saliciae, while still giving the Res
Publica an
> > instrument to prevent citizens from harming it, or to expel them
if
> > they do, then the same as above applies.
> >
> > I will consider only specific proposals, with actual law drafts.
> > Generic advice is not what we need. Please send the proposals to
me
> > and not to the main list.
> >
> > Optime valete omnes,
> > Plauta
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55721 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Penal system - do we need it?
Poplicola Agricolae SPD:

Were this to be adopted wholesale, might we just give up the odd
notions of a virtual community, return to Rome, and re-adopt slavery?
I say let's be realistic. We are *not* ancient Rome. The world is far
too removed for us alone to be an antiquated civilization in a modern
world.

Instead, let us be what Nova Roma actually is: a non-profit
organization dedicated to the revival and reconstruction of Roman
paganism and Romanity in general. This does not mean that we
automatically become Rome. This means we work as a group towards that
means. This does not mean that the Gods have honored us yet - we do
not have pomerium.

Amici, I will rejoice when we have truly accomplished this wonderful
goal. But let us not become delusional. If we want to work as an
organization dedicated to refounding Rome, we need real organization,
not Roman infrastructure. Roman infrastructure was made for Rome. We
do not need lawsuits, etc. we need a board of directors (Senate),
officers (consul, etc.), and religious advisers/experts
(sacerdotes/pontifices/augurs/etc.).

Please do not forgot that legally speaking, we are not a micronation
(we aim to be so), but are legally incorporated in Maine. I will not
have one civis hammering about the legal ramifications of an FBI raid
for taxation mishandlings, and that same civis ignore or deny the
legal ramifications of a real lawsuit in American courts.

Why can't we all work together like a real organization instead of
pretending or living still in the virtual RPG world that I thought we
long ago abandoned? Do we want to become a real nation? I heartily
assent! But are we yet? Do not be deceived.

cura ut ualeas.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
>
> Agricola Omnibus sal.
>
> I applaud Tribune Plauta's effort to channel our energies in a
> productive direction. She doesn't need generic advice, but I will
> offer one bit to you all. Put aside your feelings about what is
> "right" and look to Rome.
>
> I am aware that my friend, A. Apollonius Cordus, speaks to this often,
> and well. I can't hold a candle to his eloquence and learning on this
> matter, so I will stop now in the hope that he will step forward soon.
>
> Optime valete in cura deorum Romanorum
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@> wrote:
> >
> > Tribuna plebis L. Livia Plauta quiritibus SPD.
> >
> > Earlier, like Minucia Marcella, I too thought that Nova Roma doesn't
> > need a judicial system.
> > However, two factors made me change my mind:
> > - I have been reminded that NR, like any organization, needs internal
> > rules and a way to enforce them
> > - I have been a witness to long and repeated attempts to solve
> > controversies by other means, but they were unsuccessful.
> >
> > I think by this time everybody agrees that the leges Saliciae
> > (Poenalis and Judiciaria) are imperfect.
> > After giving some thought to the matter I found out, however, that I'm
> > unable to write better laws, and the few people I consulted with were
> > also unable to come up with a better proposal.
> >
> > So now I pass the question to all citizens.
> >
> > Can you write something better than the lex Salicia Poenalis or a
> > modification that will substantially improve it?
> > If so, please send me your lex draft, and, after debating it with my
> > colleagues and other magistrates, I will consider submitting it to the
> > Comitia Plebis Tributa.
> >
> > Do you think Nova Roma would be better off without a judicial and
> > penal system? If you can send me a proposal (with concrete lex drafts)
> > to abolish the leges Saliciae, while still giving the Res Publica an
> > instrument to prevent citizens from harming it, or to expel them if
> > they do, then the same as above applies.
> >
> > I will consider only specific proposals, with actual law drafts.
> > Generic advice is not what we need. Please send the proposals to me
> > and not to the main list.
> >
> > Optime valete omnes,
> > Plauta
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55722 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Salve Sertori,

Sertorius <sertorius@...> writes:

> Salve
> I would like to pay my taxes but have to pay by cash or money order.
> Can some one help me with this?

I'd recommend you contact your provincial governor out there in
western Canada and see if you can send your payment in to the
governor. He can then bundle the payments from you and everybody else
and send in one payment to the central treasury. This simplifies
things, and avoids the charges associated with cashing 'foreign'
checks in a US bank.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55723 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Hrm, which book of Schultz' are you referring to? I was referring to
*Women's Religious Activity in the Roman Republic*, in which she
discusses it. One thing I do hate about her book is the lack of
chronology. I remember Jo-Ann Shelton being particularly bad about
this as well, as Rome changed from one age to the other, so things
like location and dating are particularly important.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve:
> and we are talking now about only 1 site, the Ara Maxima, not
> others. I didn't make Schulz' argument that women were allowed there
> though she does.
>
> I'm not going to worship at the Ara Maxima, until someone makes a
> compelling argument.
>
> Feel free to do it and publish it. The point is to be open to new
> archeaological finds, and arguments.
> bene vale
> Maior.
>
>
>
> One of the past problems
> >
> > The *ancients* said that women weren't allowed into the cult of
> > Hercules. There is *some* disagreement. Don't overstate your case.
> >
> > Macrobius, Sat., 1.12.28 "In Italy women are not allowed to take
> part
> > in the cult of Hercules because, when Hercules was driving the
> cattle
> > of Geryon through the fields of Italy and was thirsty, a woman said
> > that she could not provide him water, for it was the day on which
> the
> > goddess of women was honored and it was forbidden for men to taste
> > anything from the sacred utensils."
> >
> > Propertius IV.9 essentially says the same thing.
> >
> > As far as Schultz's arguments go, I find her statement about
> Claudius
> > and bribery as implicating direct female worship to be seriously
> lacking.
> >
> > Poplicola
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iulius Caesar;
> > > Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented sources
> of
> > > Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have
> biases
> > > too.
> > >
> > > He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into certain
> > > cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or
> represent
> > > the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him wrong
> in
> > > her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.
> > >
> > > Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and religious
> law,
> > > and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it is a
> non-
> > > issue.
> > >
> > > Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
> > > It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the
> plebs,
> > > reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova
> where
> > > the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard in
> the
> > > silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human voice
> > > bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were approaching.
> No
> > > notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of the
> > > informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and
> therefore
> > > an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only
> that
> > > were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human aid
> > > which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed from
> the
> > > City
> > > After the end of the war with the Gauls:
> > > Livy 32.50.3
> > > Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the neglect
> of
> > > the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster before
> the
> > > war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in the
> > > Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.
> > >
> > > I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I
> showed,
> > > Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus, about
> > > recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.
> > >
> > > bene vale in pacem Concordiae
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > > sacerdos Mentis
> > >
> > > producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> > > reading list for the cultus deorum:
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Scheid goes onto say:
> > > >
> > > > "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to the
> > > magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
> > > >
> > > > So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he
> claims
> > > did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
> > > >
> > > > Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods were
> > > angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly what he
> is
> > > saying.
> > > >
> > > > Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have run
> > > shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their heads,
> like
> > > lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning their
> city,
> > > but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this
> display of
> > > anger.
> > > >
> > > > That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the
> Gods
> > > weren't angry/displeased though.
> > > >
> > > > Comment?
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene
> > > > Caesar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > Salve Palladi;
> > > > your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman
> religion.
> > > > Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics at
> > > Oxford
> > > > and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I put
> on
> > > the
> > > > list.
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > >
> > > > When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> > > > thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a
> solutions
> > > to
> > > > restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
> > > >
> > > > Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with us.'
> This
> > > is
> > > > the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle East,
> your
> > > > various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful. And
> > > naturally
> > > > Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this attitude
> is
> > > with
> > > > us today.
> > > > Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the Greco-
> > > Roman
> > > > Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
> > >
> tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
> > > rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
> > > rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
> > > 45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
> > > (ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
> > > †®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-µäƒ2w„†]
> > > gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
> > > i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?ÔC '
> > > hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
> > > [êŠaÒÐ ŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
> > > Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55724 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Salve Sertori
 
Email me. I can sort something out via Pay Pal with you, not a problem amice.
 
Vale bene
Cn. Iulius Caesar
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes...

Salve Sertori,

Sertorius <sertorius@Shaw. ca> writes:

> Salve
> I would like to pay my taxes but have to pay by cash or money order.
> Can some one help me with this?

I'd recommend you contact your provincial governor out there in
western Canada and see if you can send your payment in to the

.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55725 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Salve Sir
I will do as you say, makes good roman sense...
Vale
QS
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes...

Salve Sertori,

Sertorius <sertorius@Shaw. ca> writes:

> Salve
> I would like to pay my taxes but have to pay by cash or money order.
> Can some one help me with this?

I'd recommend you contact your provincial governor out there in
western Canada and see if you can send your payment in to the
governor. He can then bundle the payments from you and everybody else
and send in one payment to the central treasury. This simplifies
things, and avoids the charges associated with cashing 'foreign'
checks in a US bank.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55726 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Editing peronel account on NR Web Site
Salve
I have been away for a long while and I need to update my NR Web Site profile to my new info.  Since I went away I forgot my password and I have changed my email.  I can not now edit what I need to.  Can some one help me. 
Vale
QS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55727 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Salve Sir!!!
Could I get your email to reply, instead of posting on the main list?
Vale
QS
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes...

Salve Sertori
 
Email me. I can sort something out via Pay Pal with you, not a problem amice.
 
Vale bene
Cn. Iulius Caesar
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes...

Salve Sertori,

Sertorius <sertorius@Shaw. ca> writes:

> Salve
> I would like to pay my taxes but have to pay by cash or money order.
> Can some one help me with this?

I'd recommend you contact your provincial governor out there in
western Canada and see if you can send your payment in to the

.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55728 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-03-03
Subject: Re: Editing peronel account on NR Web Site
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Sertorius <sertorius@...> wrote:
>
> Salve
> I have been away for a long while and I need to update my NR Web
Site profile to my new info. Since I went away I forgot my password
and I have changed my email. I can not now edit what I need to. Can
some one help me.
> Vale
> QS
>

Salve!

I will contact you in private.

Also, for anyone in the same situation, from our Main page, look for
the "contact a magistrate" link at the bottom. Select "webmaster: from
the list...

optime vale

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55729 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
Yes, 'Women's Religious Activity..' that's the one. She does zip
around, in one place discussing epigraphy, womens' to Hercules,
mens'to Bona Dea and then in another chapter the Potiti.
I hated 'As the Romans Did.' ugh.
here it the ongoing reading list, please update it & add
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum

Where did I read that in Gades women weren't admitted to the
Hercules temple there,(really the Melqart temple)
Maior

>
> Hrm, which book of Schultz' are you referring to? I was referring
to
> *Women's Religious Activity in the Roman Republic*, in which she
> discusses it. One thing I do hate about her book is the lack of
> chronology. I remember Jo-Ann Shelton being particularly bad about
> this as well, as Rome changed from one age to the other, so things
> like location and dating are particularly important.
>
> Poplicola
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve:
> > and we are talking now about only 1 site, the Ara Maxima, not
> > others. I didn't make Schulz' argument that women were allowed
there
> > though she does.
> >
> > I'm not going to worship at the Ara Maxima, until someone makes
a
> > compelling argument.
> >
> > Feel free to do it and publish it. The point is to be open to
new
> > archeaological finds, and arguments.
> > bene vale
> > Maior.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of the past problems
> > >
> > > The *ancients* said that women weren't allowed into the cult of
> > > Hercules. There is *some* disagreement. Don't overstate your
case.
> > >
> > > Macrobius, Sat., 1.12.28 "In Italy women are not allowed to
take
> > part
> > > in the cult of Hercules because, when Hercules was driving the
> > cattle
> > > of Geryon through the fields of Italy and was thirsty, a woman
said
> > > that she could not provide him water, for it was the day on
which
> > the
> > > goddess of women was honored and it was forbidden for men to
taste
> > > anything from the sacred utensils."
> > >
> > > Propertius IV.9 essentially says the same thing.
> > >
> > > As far as Schultz's arguments go, I find her statement about
> > Claudius
> > > and bribery as implicating direct female worship to be
seriously
> > lacking.
> > >
> > > Poplicola
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve Iulius Caesar;
> > > > Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented
sources
> > of
> > > > Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have
> > biases
> > > > too.
> > > >
> > > > He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into
certain
> > > > cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or
> > represent
> > > > the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him
wrong
> > in
> > > > her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.
> > > >
> > > > Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and
religious
> > law,
> > > > and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it
is a
> > non-
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
> > > > It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the
> > plebs,
> > > > reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova
> > where
> > > > the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard
in
> > the
> > > > silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human
voice
> > > > bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were
approaching.
> > No
> > > > notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of
the
> > > > informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and
> > therefore
> > > > an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only
> > that
> > > > were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human
aid
> > > > which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed
from
> > the
> > > > City
> > > > After the end of the war with the Gauls:
> > > > Livy 32.50.3
> > > > Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the
neglect
> > of
> > > > the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster
before
> > the
> > > > war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in
the
> > > > Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I
> > showed,
> > > > Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus,
about
> > > > recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.
> > > >
> > > > bene vale in pacem Concordiae
> > > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > > > sacerdos Mentis
> > > >
> > > > producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> > > > reading list for the cultus deorum:
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > > Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
> > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Scheid goes onto say:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to
the
> > > > magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
> > > > >
> > > > > So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he
> > claims
> > > > did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods
were
> > > > angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly
what he
> > is
> > > > saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have
run
> > > > shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their
heads,
> > like
> > > > lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning
their
> > city,
> > > > but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this
> > display of
> > > > anger.
> > > > >
> > > > > That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the
> > Gods
> > > > weren't angry/displeased though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Comment?
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale bene
> > > > > Caesar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > > Salve Palladi;
> > > > > your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman
> > religion.
> > > > > Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics
at
> > > > Oxford
> > > > > and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I
put
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > list.
> > > > >
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > > >
> > > > > When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> > > > > thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a
> > solutions
> > > > to
> > > > > restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
> > > > >
> > > > > Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with
us.'
> > This
> > > > is
> > > > > the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle
East,
> > your
> > > > > various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful.
And
> > > > naturally
> > > > > Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this
attitude
> > is
> > > > with
> > > > > us today.
> > > > > Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the
Greco-
> > > > Roman
> > > > > Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
> > > >
> >
tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
> > > > rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
> > > > rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
> > > > 45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
> > > > (ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
> > > > †®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-
µäƒ2w„†]
> > > > gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
> > > > i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?
ÔC '
> > > > hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
> > > > [êŠaÒÐ ŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–
äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
> > > > Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55730 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Sacra Minervae
Minerva, from Etruscan Menvra, goddess of wisdom, war and healing.
Along with Iuppiter and Iuno she formed part of the Capitoline Triad
and shared the great temple to Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, her cella
was to his right. Sex. Pompeius in 61 B.C.E vowed a great temple to
Minerva, modelling himself on Alexander the Great who was devoted to
Athena. This temple is believed to be found at the foot of the
Pincian hill.


Ritual for Minerva
SALUTATIO
Avete Minerva Supremi Dique Imortales! Quin agete ipsos et libens
propriorum certaminis vos dignare manu indulgete sacris.
"Hail Minerva and all You immortal Gods above! Why not arouse
Yourselves and graciously attend the ceremonies that we hold in Your
honor with Your divine presence."
INVOCATIO
Dea ferox, magni decus ingeniumque parentis, bellipotens, cui torua
genis horrore decoro cassis, audi, Minerva, audite Di Deaeque
Parenti, qui hanc urbem, hoc sacratos locosque colitis, audite. Di
Parenti, vos hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces precor, ut sistis volens
propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque nostris.
"Proud, warlike Goddess, great honor and wisdom of Your Father,
powerful in war are You, on whom the grim helmet is borne with its
frightful decoration, hear me, Minerva. Listen. Gods and Goddesses
of our ancestors, You who cherish this City and these sacred groves,
listen. Gods of our forefathers, I make this offering of incense to
You and pray with good prayers that You will look kindly and
favorably upon us and our children, on our houses and on our
households."
SACRIFICATIO
Minerva disque ago gratias merito magnas. Serva, Minerva, nos mihi
per tuom te genium obsecro, exi, te volumus.
"To Minerva and the Gods deservedly I give thanks. Minerva, look
down and preserve us, I do beseech you by your good genius. Come
forth! We wish for You."
Minerva, pii castique ad te hoc die cordibus apertis venimus. Hisce
safriciis te colere volumus. Exaudi nos, O Minerva, et hoc die
praesentia tua nos digneris! Sicut antea toties fecisti, et nunc
haec sacrificia accipe, civitatemque nostram benedic! Nec magis
ardentes Mauors hastataque pugnae impulerit Bellona tubas, Minerva,
huic adnue sacro. Accipe libamina nostra, et mitte nobis voluntatem
beingnam tuam! Dona nobis concordiam et abundantiam vitae!
"Minerva, we come before You this day with open hearts, pure and
chaste. By these offerings we seek to honor You. Hear us, O Minerva,
and may You honor us this day with your presence. As You have so
often before, so now accept these offerings and bless our civitas.
Never has Mavors or Bellona with Her battle spear inspired more
ardent calls to arms on the war trumpets than You, Minerva. May You
with Your nod accept this sacrificial offering. Accept our libations
and send upon us Your kind thoughts. May You grant Nova Roma concord
and a richness of life!"
Laurel, incense, cakes of cheese drizzled with honey, and libations
of milk are offered each in turn.
Minerva, te hoc turem obmoveimus bonas preces precamur, ut sis
volens propitius nos liberisque noster domo familiaeque noster.
"Minerva, to You we make this offering of incense and pray that You
will look kindly and favorably upon us, upon our children, on our
homes and our households."
Minerva, macte istic libatione pollicenda esto, macte lactem esto.
In tua, Mater carissima, in tua sumus custodia
"Minerva, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be
honored by this milk. In You, dearest Mother, in Your hands do we
place our safekeeping."
LITATIO
The Praeses offers incense on the altar once more. Then he turns,
steps away from the altar, and the Praeses dismisses the Gods by
saying the formula:
Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.
"No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough."
PERLITATIO
The Praeses, turning to those present, says:
Ilicet. Di deaeque omnes, superi atque inferi, vos semper ament et
felicitam volunt.
"Thus it is done. May all the Gods above and below always love you
and wish you happiness in all that is good."
They respond:
Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.
"May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it is pious."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55731 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Diana's negative vision
It's been a while since I had a look at Schultz. I'll have to look
again. I'll be adding in the mean time books to your list.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, 'Women's Religious Activity..' that's the one. She does zip
> around, in one place discussing epigraphy, womens' to Hercules,
> mens'to Bona Dea and then in another chapter the Potiti.
> I hated 'As the Romans Did.' ugh.
> here it the ongoing reading list, please update it & add
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
>
> Where did I read that in Gades women weren't admitted to the
> Hercules temple there,(really the Melqart temple)
> Maior
>
> >
> > Hrm, which book of Schultz' are you referring to? I was referring
> to
> > *Women's Religious Activity in the Roman Republic*, in which she
> > discusses it. One thing I do hate about her book is the lack of
> > chronology. I remember Jo-Ann Shelton being particularly bad about
> > this as well, as Rome changed from one age to the other, so things
> > like location and dating are particularly important.
> >
> > Poplicola
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve:
> > > and we are talking now about only 1 site, the Ara Maxima, not
> > > others. I didn't make Schulz' argument that women were allowed
> there
> > > though she does.
> > >
> > > I'm not going to worship at the Ara Maxima, until someone makes
> a
> > > compelling argument.
> > >
> > > Feel free to do it and publish it. The point is to be open to
> new
> > > archeaological finds, and arguments.
> > > bene vale
> > > Maior.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > One of the past problems
> > > >
> > > > The *ancients* said that women weren't allowed into the cult of
> > > > Hercules. There is *some* disagreement. Don't overstate your
> case.
> > > >
> > > > Macrobius, Sat., 1.12.28 "In Italy women are not allowed to
> take
> > > part
> > > > in the cult of Hercules because, when Hercules was driving the
> > > cattle
> > > > of Geryon through the fields of Italy and was thirsty, a woman
> said
> > > > that she could not provide him water, for it was the day on
> which
> > > the
> > > > goddess of women was honored and it was forbidden for men to
> taste
> > > > anything from the sacred utensils."
> > > >
> > > > Propertius IV.9 essentially says the same thing.
> > > >
> > > > As far as Schultz's arguments go, I find her statement about
> > > Claudius
> > > > and bribery as implicating direct female worship to be
> seriously
> > > lacking.
> > > >
> > > > Poplicola
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salve Iulius Caesar;
> > > > > Good point. John Scheid does't provide any documented
> sources
> > > of
> > > > > Romans saying 'Iuppiter O.M is angry with us.' Scholars have
> > > biases
> > > > > too.
> > > > >
> > > > > He also says on p. 131 that women weren't permitted into
> certain
> > > > > cults of Hercules & Silvanus and couldn't cut up meat, or
> > > represent
> > > > > the state, well Prof. Celia E. Schultz of Yale proves him
> wrong
> > > in
> > > > > her book and the majority of scholars agree with her.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which is why you need experts on Roman religion and
> religious
> > > law,
> > > > > and why Diana should have gone to the CP. She didn't so it
> is a
> > > non-
> > > > > issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a good example from Livy 5.32:
> > > > > It was in this year that Marcus Caedicius, a member of the
> > > plebs,
> > > > > reported to the tribunes that whilst he was in the Via Nova
> > > where
> > > > > the chapel now stands, above the temple of Vesta, he heard
> in
> > > the
> > > > > silence of the night a voice more powerful than any human
> voice
> > > > > bidding the magistrates be told that the Gauls were
> approaching.
> > > No
> > > > > notice was taken of this, partly owing to the humble rank of
> the
> > > > > informant, and partly because the Gauls were a distant and
> > > therefore
> > > > > an unknown nation. It was not the monitions of the gods only
> > > that
> > > > > were set at nought in face of the coming doom. The one human
> aid
> > > > > which they had against it, M. Furius Camillus, was removed
> from
> > > the
> > > > > City
> > > > > After the end of the war with the Gauls:
> > > > > Livy 32.50.3
> > > > > Mention was also made of offering propitiation for the
> neglect
> > > of
> > > > > the nocturnal Voice which was heard announcing disaster
> before
> > > the
> > > > > war began, and orders were given for a temple to be built in
> the
> > > > > Nova Via to AIUS LOCUTIUS.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not going to argue with anyone further about this. As I
> > > showed,
> > > > > Romans had strong controls in regard to the State Cultus,
> about
> > > > > recognizing bad omens, prodigies etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > bene vale in pacem Concordiae
> > > > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > > > > sacerdos Mentis
> > > > >
> > > > > producer 'Vox Romnana' podcast
> > > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> > > > > reading list for the cultus deorum:
> > > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > > > Read articles & see pics of the Roman gods
> > > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Scheid goes onto say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Prodigies and catastrophes conveyed the gods' wrath to
> the
> > > > > magistrates and prompted them to seek the reason for it."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So Scheid seems to differ from you in that the Gods he
> > > claims
> > > > > did become wrathful. To me that's angry and displeased.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is Scheid wrong, and the Romans never thought the Gods
> were
> > > > > angry/displeased with us? It seems to me that is exactly
> what he
> > > is
> > > > > saying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now granted the Romans being stoic chaps might not have
> run
> > > > > shrieking from the city with their loincloths on their
> heads,
> > > like
> > > > > lesser cultures off into the wild blue yonder abandoning
> their
> > > city,
> > > > > but instead resolutley inquired into the reasons for this
> > > display of
> > > > > anger.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That does not mean that the Romans did not feel that the
> > > Gods
> > > > > weren't angry/displeased though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Comment?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vale bene
> > > > > > Caesar
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > > > Salve Palladi;
> > > > > > your remark below is a typical misunderstanding of Roman
> > > religion.
> > > > > > Cordus and I discussed it many times. He studied classics
> at
> > > > > Oxford
> > > > > > and I've done a pretty good job of reading these books I
> put
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > list.
> > > > > >
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_the_cultus_deorum
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When bad things happened, bad omens, even prodigies Romans
> > > > > > thought 'something is awry' - so they would search for a
> > > solutions
> > > > > to
> > > > > > restore the status quo of the Pax Deorum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Romans never thought 'the gods are angry/displeased with
> us.'
> > > This
> > > > > is
> > > > > > the mentality of those who worship gods from the Middle
> East,
> > > your
> > > > > > various Baals, Astarte, were very jealous and vengeful.
> And
> > > > > naturally
> > > > > > Abrahamic religions sprang from these roots. So this
> attitude
> > > is
> > > > > with
> > > > > > us today.
> > > > > > Read J. Teixidor "The Pagan God: Popular Religion in the
> Greco-
> > > > > Roman
> > > > > > Near East" Princeton University Press, 1977
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ˆ-OVy6=¬‰Ð$55w&i¼°i`Öz1‰yV¦r– žYŠ}°7³ÒÈí®Å%)ü­}
> > > > >
> > >
> tRšB‹†£mž8ŸÃэÉBð¾WÊÑø$l‹rܐÖMîÄGۇÃ.gµ÷ÓôÒtä¥+0Ž'Ì9ªºwÝh
> > > > > rijºPúh2Q]]_" å¡S¿&AYÀ©?LjàYV9ÖäîP"¹ ¼×ùŸž#H
> > > > > rjî¶Ñ@МEùÀ¬¯MÂaltÖ¤Ò@CÄùÁt\¢ìcÅ7Ô$y*ˆÄ‚ %t }7ãmWãa¡¤%
> > > > > 45wèþ«çBÒ@?Žã…NX,7äTHÊñ}ÇÍ455•4ý(q£(3ë"Å^9,c¬zjïÊ
> > > > > (ðÐњóLàÂÆÓENöy×å9äxBCú[1ž?è±M½‚ó
> > > > > †®Ï;ÎÛa¼Æa‡B„„ú™gÝÿt©îGNz,é9x?œ8GW³?7ÝíрТ•Énhßq4-
> µäƒ2w„†]
> > > > > gÝÍy¿ª"N5ÔEUšw¸FW÷s å¹Ì½%º}¨e¾4à2°¿o?þØnǹõ¹Ý`š9?±î—
> > > > > i4êŋñZMêZ$¦„–T f@p¯BéZT? Óç\qŸÂ9y37¼˜*@áyçÉog-`Ijal?
> ÔC '
> > > > > hžÕ8óEâ™1³×€ìÕØ.: SgSu¯jHJÂÁ¼ê„`Pԋ¸qßØõ¬yìX]uŒãhÒ`ù$è
> > > > > [êŠaÒÐ ŸÒÚ9iSŒGÖºÃç¡ê–
> äÑŘ0h;r•TÏñëîM¦Ú†ÀÆÔúæÆåV˜C‹%„]
> > > > > Ñ¿öu,îÍåcM>Á—ÑSc#"î=
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55732 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Vinum
What sort of wine do you drink? Or if you prefer a barbarian swag,
what beer quells your thirst? I must admit, I'm a lover of the vine,
but a nice, cold, refreshing, DELICIOUS beer is sometimes exactly what
I need. As far as wine goes, I'm a huge fan of chianti and cabernet
sauvignon (I'm already seeing questioning eyes). I've tried some
Tuscan wines, they're good, too. For cabs, I like a slightly sweeter,
wetter wine. If I'm doing whites, like chardonnay, I like a very
buttery wine. However, that steel container in which Fat Bastard is
made is also very crisp and refreshing as well.

I'm by no means a wine expert, so I'd love to hear all of your input!

Poplicola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55733 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Salve Modianus,

>There is no need to run you out, as you indicate. You'll get
>tired/bored/busy and disappear for another year, two, or whatever.
>Ironically, I was sad, so many years ago, when you didn't get elected
>consul >over Marinus.

As I felt bad when you lost 3 (or was if 4?) elections for Tribune in 2002
and 2003 which is why you felt bad when I lost to Marinus. In 2003 & 2004
you still needed me to lobby the College of Pontiffs so that you would be
made an augur and so that I would rally everyone to vote for you for
Tribune. And I was successful on both counts.

Diana Octavia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55734 From: SVM STOICUS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Taxes...
Salve, and you are from ?

Tutor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55735 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Dianae Octaviae Aventinae salutem dicit

"As I felt bad when you lost 3 (or was if 4?) elections for Tribune in 2002 and 2003 which is why you felt bad when I lost to Marinus."

I believe it was more like five run-off elections in 2002 and then 2003 for tribune, and the impetus for a better election system that didn't have countless run-off elections.  It was a fairly even match between Gaius Popillius Laenas and myself, and neither of us where getting the necessary minimum to get elected.  So around May of 2003 I told Laenas it was a good race and allowed the senate to confirm him as tribune (since it was almost June).

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:13 AM, Diana Octavia Aventina <diana@...> wrote:

Salve Modianus,



>There is no need to run you out, as you indicate. You'll get
>tired/bored/busy and disappear for another year, two, or whatever.
>Ironically, I was sad, so many years ago, when you didn't get elected
>consul >over Marinus.

As I felt bad when you lost 3 (or was if 4?) elections for Tribune in 2002
and 2003 which is why you felt bad when I lost to Marinus. In 2003 & 2004
you still needed me to lobby the College of Pontiffs so that you would be
made an augur and so that I would rally everyone to vote for you for
Tribune. And I was successful on both counts.

Diana Octavia

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55736 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI
----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS. L. EQUITI


>>>
[...]
> You couldn't "quit" Ancient Rome.

In fact, you could. An awful lot of Romans, knowing they were to be
arrested, took leave of Rome and went to live somewhere else.
>>

Moving is a bit more involved than quitting. No one in Nova Roma who wants
to quit has to move to another country.


>>
As for
the realness of our courts, they are as real as our senate and our
comitia. If you don't consider our senate real,
>>

If I didn't consider the senate to be real, why haven't I ever said this?
I'm not one to refrain from spouting my opinions on things.

>>
what is your
authority to be a governor? How are you able to swear your oath as
governor?
>>

What does this have to do with using a judicial system to deal with simple
disputes?


>>
[...]
> If someone is refusing to follow a law, what makes you think you can
> enforce any kind of punishment on them?

It all comes down to somebody's willingness to participate in the
community. If they want to flout the rules, that's their choice. I
think it's better for us all to do this within the framework of a
trial than just letting the Praetors make summary judgments.
>>

I think it's better to be done with an ombudsman whose sole job is to deal
with and resolve disputes. The system we have is more of a Rube Goldberg
machine.

>>
> And it doesn't resolve the conflict, it only gets rid of it until
> someone other guy doesn't feel like cooperating.

Then we ban that person from office or membership too.
>>

That doesn't solve the problem.


Annia Minucia Marcella
http://www.myspace.com/novabritannia
http://novabritannia.org/
http://ciarin.com/governor

Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55737 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: a. d. IV Non. Mart.: Romulus and Rome's Constitution
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodiant

Hodie est ante diem IIII Nonas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:

"Now is the best of time for making ditches. At this time, too,
attention should be paid to gardens and rose beds." ~ Plinius
Secundus, Historia Naturalis 18.65

"Ditches should now be dug in seed plots." ~ Cato, De Agricultura 40


Ab Urbe condita (753 BCE): Romulus and Rome's first constitution.

"After the claims of religion had been duly acknowledged, Romulus
called his people to a council. As nothing could unite them into one
political body but the observance of common laws and customs, he gave
them a body of laws, which he thought would only be respected by a
rude and uncivilised race of men if he inspired them with awe by
assuming the outward symbols of power. He surrounded himself with
greater state, and in particular he called into his service twelve
lictors. Some think that he fixed upon this number from the number of
the birds who foretold his sovereignty; but I am inclined to agree
with those who think that as this class of public officers was
borrowed from the same people from whom the `sella curulis' and the
`toga praetexta' were adopted--their neighbours, the Etruscans--so
the number itself also was taken from them. Its use amongst the
Etruscans is traced to the custom of the twelve sovereign cities of
Etruria, when jointly electing a king furnishing him each with one
lictor.

"Meantime the City was growing by the extension of its walls in
various directions an increase due rather to the anticipation of its
future population than to any present overcrowding. His next care was
to secure an addition to the population that the size of the City
might not be a source of weakness. It had been the ancient policy of
the founders of cities to get together a multitude of people of
obscure and low origin and then to spread the fiction that they were
the children of the soil. In accordance with this policy, Romulus
opened a place of refuge on the spot where, as you go down from the
Capitol, you find an enclosed space between two groves. A promiscuous
crowd of freemen and slaves, eager for change, fled thither from the
neighbouring states. This was the first accession of strength to the
nascent greatness of the city.

"When he was satisfied as to its strength, his next step was to
provide for that strength being wisely directed. He created a hundred
senators; either, because that number was adequate, or because there
were only a hundred heads of houses who could be created. In any case
they were called the `Patres' in virtue of their rank, and their
descendants were called `Patricians.'" ~ Titus Livius 1.8


Our thought for today is from Epicurius, Vatican Saying 55:

"We should find solace for misfortune in the happy memory of what has
been and in the knowledge that what has been cannot be undone."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55738 From: Sertorius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Taxes...
Salve
I am from Canada Occidentalis.
Vale
QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "SVM STOICUS" <phorus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:13 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re:Taxes...


> Salve, and you are from ?
>
> Tutor
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55739 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete,

Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
Goddess is:

http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html

Valete optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55740 From: Rich Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 05:59 +0000, Q. Valerius Poplicola wrote:

Greetings, I've been lurking for quite a while, and thought I'd chime
in, here.

I tend to prefer caernets and Shiraz. Currently, my two favorite
California cabs are from Sebastiani, and Chateau St. Jean.

Recently I found a cab called Cycles Gladiator, and while it's a
little more subdued than the bigger cabs I often prefer, it is very much
to my liking, and the price is right.

Best,
Rich...

> What sort of wine do you drink? Or if you prefer a barbarian swag,
> what beer quells your thirst? I must admit, I'm a lover of the vine,
> but a nice, cold, refreshing, DELICIOUS beer is sometimes exactly what
> I need. As far as wine goes, I'm a huge fan of chianti and cabernet
> sauvignon (I'm already seeing questioning eyes). I've tried some
> Tuscan wines, they're good, too. For cabs, I like a slightly sweeter,
> wetter wine. If I'm doing whites, like chardonnay, I like a very
> buttery wine. However, that steel container in which Fat Bastard is
> made is also very crisp and refreshing as well.
>
> I'm by no means a wine expert, so I'd love to hear all of your input!
>
> Poplicola
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55741 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete,

Jupiter!!!

Not bad.

Valete,

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
> Goddess is:
>
> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55743 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: LUDI CONDITORUM: Circenses Finals!
Ludi Circenses Finals of the Ludi Conditorum 2761 a.U.c.


== 1:00 PM ~ Live at the Races ==

Salvete Race Fans! This is M. Verus Paenula REPORTING LIVE from the
Circus Maximus this afternoon for the Ludi Circenses Finals of the
Conditorum!

This grand race is the culminating competition in the first Circenses
of the 10th Anniversary Year of the refounding of the Respublica, and
today we will be covering four of the finest racing teams, one from
each factio, here at the Circus Maximus.

Here at the Circus, the crowds are bustling about, meeting with
friends, browsing the vendor carts, examining the racing factio
displays set up around the Circus. As the crowd make their way in to
the event, many are spending high denarii with the Locarii, who are
proving that they are the leeches many people call them. But, they
insist that the buyers do so voluntarily and that Mercurius is on
their side. Whether this is the business side or the thief side, one
can only debate!

We are going to visit with some of the factiones and see what their
take on the day's race is. We now make our way through the crowds and
over to the Factio Albata display. We are here with Spurius
Genucius, one of the trainers at the Factio Albata Stables. Can you
tell us about Consularis Equitius' entry today and how you think he
will fair?

Spurius Genucius smiles and sips his wine, then states:

Consularis Equitius' chariot, Ars Longa, is driven by Aoife of the
Silures. Aoife is descendant of the ancient Silures, who made a
fierce resistance to the Roman conquest about AD 48, with the
assistance of Caratacus, a military leader and Prince of the
Catuvellauni, who had fled from further east after his own tribe was
defeated. Like his ancestors, Aoife is skilled in effective "guerilla
warfare" on the track and is not easily subdued. He, like the ancient
Romans wrote of his ancestors is "non atrocitate, non clementia
mutabatur": changed neither by cruelty nor by clemency. Albata is
proud to have this veteran of the track representing us today. Do not
expect an easy run with Aoife in the race!

Thanks Spurius Genucius for that update and good luck in the race
today! Now we make our way over to the Factio Russata display, where
several of the drivers and trainers are speaking with the fans. We
are here with Numerius Ovidius, one of the new drivers for Russata.
Numerius Ovidius, what can you tell us about the Reds and the race
today?

Numerius Ovidius strokes one of the Russata horses on the nose, then
hands the reins to a servus.

"Well, as a new driver, I have only driven in practice runs in the
Trigarium, so I can't exactly tell you what goes from a driver's
perspective, but it has to be a tremendous strain on one's soul to be
able to concentrate on the race and at the same time be judged by
literally thousands of spectators, some who support you, and some who
would love to see you flung end over end out the back side of your
chariot! What I can tell you is that Russata's entry in the finals
represents one of our finest teams!
Amara Aegeus the Greek will be driving Celeritas, the chariot
sponsored by T. Arminius Genalius. Amara has raced many a track in
Graeciae and Roma and we expect his successes to follow with him on
the track today. He carries a small marble figurine of Apollo in the
leather bag attached to his side. It was a gift from his mother years
ago when he began his career. A veteran of the track, his is skilled
and precise in his execution of tactics in the lanes, so do not
expect an amateur showing from him today. He has taken Russata to
the Finals. While no easy task to accomplish, the process is
certainly not foreign to him. We have all the confidence in the
Mediterranean that he will be the Victor today!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Good luck and may the Gods
be with you in your first race, whenever that shall be! We now are
going to attempt to get through the crowds, which are packing into
the Circus like sardines in an amphora!

We have made it across to the Factio Praesina exhibit where we will
attempt to speak with the veteran drivers, Spandex the Vandal and
Vindex, sponsored in the earlier races by Gaia Aurelia Falco Silvana,
who is also now walking up to us. Salvete! Some veteran thoughts from
the three of you on the race today?

Spandex, the veteran driver of the famous Praesina chariot,
Velociraptor, volunteers these words:

"Yes, Praesina will win! No question about it!" Gaia Aurelia
says: "Hopefully, Spandex is correct! Praesina has been very
fortunate during this Ludi, and we can only hope that we can continue
this winning streak! Many hours of work and training have gone into
providing the best entries possibly for this year's special Ludi
celebrations, both at the Green stables and the Ludus Praesinus. We
can only hope for the best, as this is exactly what we have planned
for. The Praesina entry today, Volcanus, sponsored by Q. Servilius
Priscus, is one of our new models and should prove to be a winning
one. Volcanus is being driven by Merddyn the Celt. Many may know
Merrdyn from previous races as he is one of our best drivers, and
spends a lot of his free time recruiting for the Greens" Vindex
adds, "We are currently seeking more entries in the coming events for
both Factio Praesina and Ludu Praesinus, as we have available stalls
and beds for our competitors."

It looks like the Greens are ready for anything! Thanks and we will
see you inside shortly! Vindex turns to speak with other fans,
handing them a papyrus about the Factio. Gaia Aurelia instructs
Spandex to give us a chariot escort to the Veneta display!

Riding through the crowds is much easier than trying to force
yourself through the crowd. "Yes, it is!" states Spandex, as we
arrive at the Veneta display. Thanks for the ride, Spandex. He
salutes and returns back toward the Praesina exhibit.

We are here at the Factio Veneta display and everyone is wearing
blue. The horses even have specially-dyed blue blankets. We are
speaking Censor Ti. Galerius Paulinus, Citizen Q. Vitellius Triarus
Vopiscus, and Bellator Marius, driver of Vopiscus' chariot, Venetus
Daemon.

Salve Censor! I expected you to already be inside on the terraces by
now!

Censor Galerius pauses and says:

"Just making sure everything is in order for our entry today, Venetus
Daemon, driven by Bellator Marius and sponsored by Vopiscus."

Vopiscus states, "We had to make some last minute changes, which we
have just completed. Guys, send her to the line! We're running out of
time!"

The Factio Veneta servii clear the way, and Marius drives the chariot
toward the entrance gates of the Circus Maximus for the opening
ceremony.

Censor Galerius continues, "We are excited about today's race. We
have had the most entries in the Circenses, but only ended up with
one entry in the finals. We have made some long needed adjustments
for this year, but have had to make further corrections to refine our
initial adjustments. We are ready now, and hopefully you will see
Veneta bring home the Victory corona!"

Censor, I would not be surprised if they don't! Good luck and see you
inside! We now go inside the Circus for the opening ceremony.



== 1:30 PM ~ Opening Ceremony ==

We are now here inside the Circus Maximus on the upper terraces, as
we observe the hoards of fans, who are filing into their seats and
waiting for the opening processional to begin. Little by little, the
crowd makes its way into the Circus; most are seated now, though the
latecomers are dashing about, trying to find seats...any seats, but
preferably those with a good view, and not behind some tall German or
Nubian barbarian who would obstruct their vision...not to mention
that these benighted barbarians still haven't heard about the
benefits of daily bathing, and, shall we say, are rather pungently
scented...

At last, everyone seems to have found a seat somewhere, if only in
the topmost and worst tier; the air crackles with excitement. The
buzzing is so loud that one would have thought that someone had
disturbed a beehive, and that, too, at a most inauspicious moment in
apian life. The Porta Pompae is opened, and trumpeters, begin to
play, the gates open and the musicians enter, playing the Triumphant
Entrance of the Chariots.


<big>[[http://plutusonline.com/midis/benhur.mid Click Here to listen
to the Charioteer Music]]</big>


As the opening processional enters the arena, the track fills with
the multitude of attendants here to support the races today. First,
after the musicians, comes Curule Aedile Sex. Lucilius Tutor,
followed by Quaestors L. Vitellius Triarius and M. Hortensia Maior
and the Aedilian cohors, who enter the Circus on chariots provided by
the various factiones. Behind them come the Consules, M. Moravius
Piscinus Horatianus and T. Iulius Sabinus, then the Censors, C.
Fabius Buteo Modianus and Ti. Galerius Paulinus, next come the
Praetors, M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus, followed
by many other Magistrates and Guests.

Now, another contingent of trumpeters enters, marching around the
track as their brassy music fills the air. After them acrobats
leaping and turning somersaults skip along, preceding a far more
serious group which now makes its way around the track: a
vexillation of soldiers from Legio XXIV, one of those which defends
Rome and expands her sway, march in perfect time under the watchful
eyes of their centurion, the wise and faithful Gallio Velius
Marsallas. As they pass the pulvinar, they salute the magistrates,
never missing a beat in their perfect drill. Next, as a change of
pace from the more somber military mood, desultores, acrobatic riders
who leap from one horse to another and perform other feats as they
ride, now appear, entertaining the crowd with appetizers for the
equestrian events to follow.

Next, come plaustra, carts carrying the images of the Gods. The
statues of Those Who Made Rome Great are robed in the finest fabrics,
brilliantly hued with the most exquisite (and expensive!) dyestuffs,
their clothing woven by weavers whose skill is little inferior to
that of Minerva herself. The statues themselves have been crafted by
the finest sculptors in the known world, a worthy tribute to the
Deities they represent. Close behind are the tensae, litters bearing
still more, and equally impressive, images of the Gods; as each is
borne to its place (the highest today reserved for the Capitoline
Triad), as newly-elected Flamen Falacer, Q. Valerius Poplicola,
honors the deities with an offering of incense and a libation, for
the curule aediles have graciously granted him the honor of presiding
over this race.

Finally, come the contestants in today's races, driving their
chariots into the Circus and making a ceremonious passage down the
track along the spina, then turning the meta to return up the other
side. The roar of the crowd is tremendous as the charioteers finish
their processional and move to take their places at the gates.
Reading the papyrus handout from the greeters, given to us upon
entrance into the Circus we give you the run-down on today's Semi-
Finals races as issued by the officials at the Trigarium:


* Ars Longa of Factio Albata, driven by Aoife of the Silures and
sponsored by Gn. Equitius Marinus

* Celeritas of Factio Russata, driven by Amara Aigeus the Greek and
sponsored by T. Arminius Genialis

* Volcanus of Factio Praesina, driven by Merddyn the Celt and
sponsored by Q. Servilius Priscus

* Venetus Daemon of Factio Veneta, driven by Bellator Marius and
sponsored by Q. Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus


As the charioteers form their line, the servii secure the reins and
the drivers dismount to draw lots for their lane positions with
Quaestor Hortensia. The charioteers draw their lots, and take their
positions accordingly. As you may recall, the gate is marked with the
signs of the zodiac; lots are drawn to determine which entry takes
which place. Albata draws first and selects Libra; Praesina is next
and gets Pisces, then Russata chooses Capricorn, while Veneta draws
Scorpio. They take their places in the gate. The banners of the
factiones are briskly snapping in wind, and the crowd anxiously
awaits the start. Custos Venator reads a short poem about courage in
the face of danger to the crowd, then turns the Podium over to Flamen
Q. Valerius, who rises, takes the mappa from Quaestor Vitellius and
waves the gleaming white mappa for attention. A hush falls over the
crowd. All eyes are now fastened on the Flamen Falacer. He raises his
right arm, the horses snort wildly as the drivers tighten the reins,
the mappa drops, and the gates spring open, launching the restrained
chariots! They're offÂ…tearing out of the gates like Iuppiter's
lightening bolts!



== 2:00 PM ~ The Finals Race ==

As the chariots break the starting line, the Circus completely
explodes with a thunderous roar as the spectators cheer on their
favorite teams! Out of the gates first is Volcanus, who is closely
followed by Venetus Daemon and Ars Longa, with Celeritas narrowly
behind! They race down the lanes, throwing dust into the air, but
not pushing the horses too hard this early in the race. They round
the first turning post in a gaggle, with Venetus Daemon emerging in
front of the rest. Now, down the straight-a-way, the four chariots
pull side-by-side and compete for the first position. Coming up on
the second turning post, it is still Venetus Daemon in the lead! Ars
Longa passes Volcanus, but loses his place back to Volcanus as they
come out of the turn. Celeritas pulls ahead, after taking the turn
too fast and being forced to slow his pace some. The first dolphin
drops, as the charioteers fly by.

Racing on and coming up on the first turn, it is still Venetus Daemon
in the lead, followed by Volcanus, then Celeritas, who has just made
a quick dart in front of Ars Longa, and it's back down the straight-a-
way. Attempting to secure the lead, Volcanus lashes Bellator Marius
with his whip! Venetus Daemon returns the favor and keeps on going.
Celeritas and Ars Longa continue to fight for the third position as
they make the second turn of the lap, and the second dolphin is
turned down.

Wait! Venetus Daemon is experiencing some difficulty with the left
wheel of his chariot. We cannot tell what the problem isÂ… Venetus
Daemon continues on now without any obvious concerns. Apparently,
whatever the problem was, it corrected itself. Volcanus and
Celeritas are now competing for second, but Ars Longa is forcing his
way in between them as the round the first turn. The dust is heavy,
so we can't see just yetÂ…YES! Ars Longa has come out of the turn in
second position, as Volcanus and Celeritas compete for third. Down
the long straight stretch on the back side, Ars Longa drives even
harder to catch up with Venetus Daemon, who remains the leader in
this race. Celeritas now takes this opportunity to try and drive
Volcanus into the spina wall, but Volcanus doesn't give in that
easily! Volcanus lashes Aoife of the Silures, driver of Celeritas,
repeatedly until he backs off. Celeritas is yelling something at
Volcanus, but no one can make out what he is saying. With the second
turn approaching, all the drivers prepare to turn, as the gravel and
dust spews up into the air! Out of the turn, it is Venetus Daemon in
first position, now Volcanus has overtaken Ars Longa for the second
position, and Celeritas narrowly trails behind.

As the third dolphin falls, the charioteers speed down the lanes for
a fourth time. The crowds are screaming louder than ever! The race
at this point is somewhat a race of pairs. Venetus Daemon and
Volcanus competing for the lead, and Ars Longa and Celeritas fighting
for third. Again, the chariots round the first turning post.
OOHHH! Volcanus has slid out, taking the turn too fast, but he is
still on his wheels! Seizing the opportunity, Ars Longa and Celeritas
slide by and take the second and third positions. Volcanus speeds
with all he has to catch the others as they round the second turning
post and the fourth dolphin is pulled down.

Over halfway now, the charioteers race down the lanes to the first
turn. As they enter the first turn, Venetus Daemon cuts it sharp and
comes up on one wheel, but the chariot falls back to the ground and
Bellator Marius loses no position in the turn. Ars Longa is managing
to hold on to the second position, as Celeritas and Volcanus fight
for third. Down the back stretch, Ars Longa has now overtaken
Venetus Daemon for the lead, and Celeritas has secured third position
from Volcanus at this point. They race for the second turning post,
turning almost like spokes on a wheel in perfect alignment! Venetus
Daemon and Ars Longa are neck-and-neck, racing down the lanes,
followed closely by Celeritas and Volcanus.

As the fifth dolphin turns downward, the charioteers know the end is
nearing and they prepare for the final run. Pacing each other for a
last final push, the chariots remain in the same position down the
lanes, around the first turning post, then back up the rear side of
the spina. As they make the second turn, Celeritas pulls up alongside
of Ars Longa and Venetus Daemon. Volcanus is following immediately
behind the three chariots as they fly by and the sixth dolphin is
turned down.

As they shoot down the track, side-by-side, each driver tries to pull
ahead of the others and take the lead. They fly around the first
turn, and all three chariots slide in the gravel and bump into each
other. Volcanus breaks hard as not to get caught up in the mess,
which was almost a three-chariot accident. They continue down the
lanes, focusing on the second turning post. Arriving at the turn,
Venetus Daemon cuts sharply around andÂ…something has happenedÂ…it
looks like Venetus Daemon has busted the left wheel hub on the side
of the spina! He continues madly down the lane! Ars Longa and
Celeritas narrowly behind, followed by Volcanus.

The seventh and final dolphin drops and SNAP!!! The left wheel on
Venetus Daemon has come off, takes two bounces and ends up on its
side on top of the spina! Bellator Marius is still on the chariot,
which is being dragged down the lane. Now the right wheel has come
off and the chariot has become a sled! Bellator Marius is trying
frantically to cut the reins, which are tied around his waist! His
patron, Vopiscus, is furiously pacing the terraces, screaming for him
to cut the reins! The Veneta fans are yelling words of encouragement,
but I'm afraid he cannot hear them. He is too busy fighting to stay
alive!

Celeritas, Volcanus and Ars Longa are desperately trying to safely
navigate through the debris and dust storm being created by Venetus
Daemon! Now, the chariot Venetus Daemon is breaking into pieces and
comes to a complete stop, Bellator Marius being yanked over the front
of the chariot and onto the gravel, still trying to cut his way
loose! The crowds have grown completely silent, except for a few
rude spectators from opposing factiones. Finally, Bellator Marius
cuts himself loose and rolls out of the way, as Ars Longa, Celeritas
and Volcanus drive by him. Approaching the first meta, each driver
meets the turn with expected caution, then heads down the back
stretch with break-neck speed!

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Circus medical staff and factio
trainers have rushed out onto the track, have placed Bellator Marius
on a litter, and are now rushing to get him out of the way before the
remaining drivers come around the second turn. Here they come in a
storm of dust, gravel flying everywhereÂ…even up onto the first
terrace where the Senators are seated! Out of the dust comes
Celeritas, followed by Volcanus, then Ars Longa. As they break and
spread out for the remaining short distance to the finish line, they
each fight for the victor's position! Here they come, Volcanus and
Ars Longa side-by-side, narrowly behind Celeritas... and across the
line they come! First is Celeritas, Second Place goes to Ars Longa
by a nose, and Third Place goes to Volcanus!

The Quaestors are certifying the staff opinions of the finish, then
Quaestor Vitellius announces the official certified results. It is a
unanimous decision:


* VICTOR: Celeritas of Factio Russata, sponsored by T. Arminius
Genialis

* 2nd Place: Ars Longa of Factio Albata, sponsored by Gn. Equitius
Marinus

* 3rd Place: Volcanus of Factio Praesina, sponsored by Q. Servilius
Priscus

* 4th Place: Venetus Daemon of Factio Veneta, sponsored by Q.
Vitellius Triarus Vopiscus ***ACCIDENT***



== 2:30 PM ~ Closing Ceremony ==

As the officials clear the track, the drivers and their teams from
today's race circle the spina are saluted by the spectators, fans of
the factiones, the Aedilician Cohors, and the many Magistrates here
today. As the drivers finish their victory lap, Quaestor Vitellius
calls for the officials of Factio Russata to come forward and bring
their driver, Amara Aigeus, to the Podium.

Amara Aigeus drives up to the Podium and stands with his patron, T.
Arminius Genialis. Presenting the gilded Victor's Corona is Consul
T. Iulius Sabinus, also a veteran member of the Factio Russata.
Quaestor Vitellius presents T. Arminius Genialis with a large Greek
red-figure pottery urn, depicting various images of charioteers. The
Flamen Falacer presents Amara Aigeus with a large chest, filled with
Nova Roman Sestertii in both the Declaratio and Quadriga styles.

This being the last of the games of the Ludi Conditorum, Quaestor
Vitellius thanks the participants for a wonderful and challenging
week of events and gives thanks to the Gods for these special
occasions to be celebrated!

As the crowds disperse, the participants exit to their respective
stables to enjoy the celebrations of this, a beautiful Roman
afternoon!

Until we meet again at the next match or race, this is M. Verus
Paenula of the Aedilician Network, signing off from the Circus
Maximus and we will see you here again soon!


Di vos incolumes custodiant!



You may also view the Circenses races on the official Ludi Conditorum
pages at:
http://tinyurl.com/yu8rv6
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55744 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Edictum Consularis X: Extending the Deadline for Applications
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus Consules:
Patribus Mátribusque Conscriptís, Senatui Populoque Novo Romano,
Quiritibus, et viatoribus, omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

Edictum Consularis X: On Extending the Deadline for
Applications and the Award of grant(s) from the Nova Roma Scholarship
Fund for AUC 2761 (2008 C. E.):

In accordance with the Senatus Consultum on Scholarships, and
amending the Edictum Consularis XXVIII - MMDCCLX, notice is hereby
given that the deadline for applications for grants from the Nova
Roma Scholarship Fund for AUC 2761 is being extended.

Applications will continue to be accepted until 11:59 PM CET (Roma,
Italia) on the Ides of March (15 March) AUC 2761.

Applicants do not need to be Citizens of Nova Roma in order to be
eligible to receive a grant from the Nova Roma Scholarship Fund.

Applicants should write to the Nova Roma Senate Scholarship Committee
c/o its Chairman, Senator Gnaeus Equitius Marinus at
gawne@... or to the following address:

Nova Roma
Attn: Scholarship
PO Box 404
Colchester, Ct
06415

Applicants should include the following information in your
application:

a. An explanation of the student's course of study, including current
student status and educational institution.

b. How the student's course of study will further knowledge of
ancient Rome.

c. Whether the student is involved in any organizations, projects,
programs and activities dedicated to spreading knowledge of Rome, and
list what these may be.


Only those applications considered to have merit by a majority of the
Senate Scholarship Committee will be forwarded to the Senate for
consideration.

Grants of $500 USD will be awarded by the Senate of Nova Roma in
April AUC 2761 (2008 CE) and announced at the conclusion of the
Senate session for this month.


Bonam habete Fortunam
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55745 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Salve Poplicola,

For everyday, I prefer the following:

-------------------------------------

Folie A Deux Menage A Trois Red Table Wine from California

Review:

Ménage à Trois exposes the fresh, ripe, jam-like fruit that is the
calling card of California wine. Forward, silky and soft, this
delicious dalliance makes the perfect accompaniment for grilled meats
or chicken. Ménage à Trois red brings together three strange
bedfellows: Zinfandel, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. To add
complexity and retain character, each variety was fermented
separately, then blended together prior to bottling. On top we've got
Zinfandel, a saucy tease that brings blackberry and raspberry jam to
the relationship. Merlot, with its generous mouth feel and red
fruits, fits perfectly in the middle. The rich flavors and firm
tannins of Cabernet Sauvignon make it the ideal candidate for the
bottom layer of the trio.

-------------------------------------

It's made by three old hippies in California who know what they are
doing, and for around $8.00 a bottle, it is an extremely good wine!

Vale optime,
Triarius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
>
> What sort of wine do you drink? Or if you prefer a barbarian swag,
> what beer quells your thirst? I must admit, I'm a lover of the vine,
> but a nice, cold, refreshing, DELICIOUS beer is sometimes exactly
what
> I need. As far as wine goes, I'm a huge fan of chianti and cabernet
> sauvignon (I'm already seeing questioning eyes). I've tried some
> Tuscan wines, they're good, too. For cabs, I like a slightly
sweeter,
> wetter wine. If I'm doing whites, like chardonnay, I like a very
> buttery wine. However, that steel container in which Fat Bastard is
> made is also very crisp and refreshing as well.
>
> I'm by no means a wine expert, so I'd love to hear all of your
input!
>
> Poplicola
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55746 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Hmmmm.... it claims I'm Jovian.

"Your ability to laugh at the world can?t hide a caring and curious
nature. Jupiter, God of the Sky and Ruler of the Roman Pantheon, is
your protector as you combine active pursuits with a sense of paternal
activism."

I suppose there's truth in that. Anything that puts me in company
with Laenas can't be all bad.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> writes:

> Salvete,
>
> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
> Goddess is:
>
> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55747 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Venator podcasted
Valetudo;

If anyone's ever been curious as to what I sound like, here's your
chance to decide if my voice does have "Kermit the Frog" overtones ,-)

http://ravencast.podbean.com/2008/03/03/episode-19-asatru-artists-piparskeggr/
or
http://tinyurl.com/28y66w

Ravencast is a service to the Asatru - Germano-Norse Heathen
community, so the interview does concentrate on that worldview, but
from my personal viewpoint.

--
=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55748 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Applications are being accepted for Scholarships for 2761 a.u.c.
Salvete quirites,

In accordance with Consul Piscinus' edictum published earlier today,
I'm reposting the edictum that Consul Paulinus published in December,
calling for applications.

----- Forwarded message (edited to indicate new applicable dates) -----

In accordance with the Senatus Consultum on Scholarships notice is
hereby given that applications are being accepted for Scholarships for 2761

Applicants should write to the Nova Roma Senate Scholarship committee
c/o its Chairman

Senator Gnaeus Equitius Marinus at gawne@...

You need to include the following in your application:

a. An explanation of their course of study, including current student
status and educational institution.

b. How their course of study furthers knowledge of Roman matters.

c. Their involvement in organizations, projects, programs and
activities dedicated to spreading knowledge of Rome.

“While most applicants are expected to be students enrolled in
universities at the advanced baccalaureate or higher level (or
equivalent for universities which don't use the BA/MA/ PhD,
applicants from outside such a system may be considered by the
Senate Scholarship committee in rare circumstances provided they
demonstrate a comparable level of scholarship.”

“The Senate Scholarship committee shall examine applications to
determine merit. Grants shall be awarded by the Senate based on the
Senate Scholarship committee's determinations of merit. One or more
grants may be made by the Senate depending on available funds and the
Senate Scholarship committee's review of applications.”

Only those applications considered to have merit by a majority of the
committee will be forwarded to the Senate. Applications will only be
accepted from citizens of Nova Roma.

Applications must be received by the Senate Scholarship committee no
later than 23:59 CET on

15 March 2761 a.u.c.

Because this will be the first Scholarships ever granted by Nova Roma,
the Senate Scholarship committee will announce the amount available
prior to awarding them.

Grants will be awarded by the Ides of April of 2761 a.u.c..

----- End forwarded message -----


CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55749 From: Gens Iulia Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Salvete!:
I really like Shiraz (or Syrah) too, most likely from the local province of San Juan, its rich soil gives a very distinctive "woodery" flavour, unlike the ones from Mendoza, which have a milder after taste.
Pinot Noir is another option, although it might be difficult to get. Malbec is a very popular choice, as well as bi-varietal Merlot-Cabernet Sauvignon.
As for whites, Tokai is a good option, when it comes to it. But I'm not a big fan of white wine.
Beers... I'd rather prefer a good, dark ale. There is a local producer which makes a wonderful "imperial stout", dark as hell, although their "brown" (a light, reddish ale, with a raspberry-like flavour) is wonderful for smoked cold cuts and cheese. There is another option, their "cream stout", which is not as bitter as the first one. Still, we also have a good local version of Stella Artois, although Warsteiner and Heineken can be bought at a very reasonable price too. Nothing like a cold lager on a hot summer day.
Hope I'm tempting some of you to visit our country!.
Valete!.
Gaia Iulia Agrippa.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:26 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Vinum

Salve Poplicola,

For everyday, I prefer the following:

-------------------------------------

Folie A Deux Menage A Trois Red Table Wine from California

Review:

Ménage à Trois exposes the fresh, ripe, jam-like fruit that is the
calling card of California wine. Forward, silky and soft, this
delicious dalliance makes the perfect accompaniment for grilled meats
or chicken. Ménage à Trois red brings together three strange
bedfellows: Zinfandel, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. To add
complexity and retain character, each variety was fermented
separately, then blended together prior to bottling. On top we've got
Zinfandel, a saucy tease that brings blackberry and raspberry jam to
the relationship. Merlot, with its generous mouth feel and red
fruits, fits perfectly in the middle. The rich flavors and firm
tannins of Cabernet Sauvignon make it the ideal candidate for the
bottom layer of the trio.

-------------------------------------

It's made by three old hippies in California who know what they are
doing, and for around $8.00 a bottle, it is an extremely good wine!

Vale optime,
Triarius



--- In
Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
>
> What
sort of wine do you drink? Or if you prefer a barbarian swag,
> what beer
quells your thirst? I must admit, I'm a lover of the vine,
> but a nice,
cold, refreshing, DELICIOUS beer is sometimes exactly
what
> I need.
As far as wine goes, I'm a huge fan of chianti and cabernet
> sauvignon
(I'm already seeing questioning eyes). I've tried some
> Tuscan wines,
they're good, too. For cabs, I like a slightly
sweeter,
> wetter wine.
If I'm doing whites, like chardonnay, I like a very
> buttery wine.
However, that steel container in which Fat Bastard is
> made is also very
crisp and refreshing as well.
>
> I'm by no means a wine expert, so
I'd love to hear all of your
input!
>
>
Poplicola
>




 
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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1310 - Release Date: 04/03/08 08:35 a.m.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55750 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
I feel honored! I drew Iuppiter as well!

Vale optime,
Triarius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:
>
> Hmmmm.... it claims I'm Jovian.
>
> "Your ability to laugh at the world can?t hide a caring and
curious
> nature. Jupiter, God of the Sky and Ruler of the Roman Pantheon,
is
> your protector as you combine active pursuits with a sense of
paternal
> activism."
>
> I suppose there's truth in that. Anything that puts me in company
> with Laenas can't be all bad.
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> "L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> writes:
>
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman
God or
> > Goddess is:
> >
> > http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55751 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Me too!

----- Original Message -----
From: "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz


> Salvete,
>
> Jupiter!!!
>
> Not bad.
>
> Valete,
>
> Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
>>
>> Salvete,
>>
>> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
>> Goddess is:
>>
>> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
>>
>> Valete optime,
>> Triarius
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55752 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete,

Yeah I went back and took it several times with different answers and
got Jupiter every time.

Hmmmmmm....


Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
<diana@...> wrote:
>
> Me too!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:40 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
>
>
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Jupiter!!!
> >
> > Not bad.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> > <lucius_vitellius_triarius@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Salvete,
> >>
> >> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman
God or
> >> Goddess is:
> >>
> >> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
> >>
> >> Valete optime,
> >> Triarius
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55753 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
Salve!
 
I dislike alcohol very much. It just tastes bad, in my opinion. But if I had to pick one I'd pick mead :)
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:59 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Vinum

What sort of wine do you drink? Or if you prefer a barbarian swag,
what beer quells your thirst? I must admit, I'm a lover of the vine,
but a nice, cold, refreshing, DELICIOUS beer is sometimes exactly what
I need. As far as wine goes, I'm a huge fan of chianti and cabernet
sauvignon (I'm already seeing questioning eyes). I've tried some
Tuscan wines, they're good, too. For cabs, I like a slightly sweeter,
wetter wine. If I'm doing whites, like chardonnay, I like a very
buttery wine. However, that steel container in which Fat Bastard is
made is also very crisp and refreshing as well.

I'm by no means a wine expert, so I'd love to hear all of your input!

Poplicola

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55754 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
hehe!
 
Mine's Minerva, naturally. I guess it's a nice coincidence that she's also a patron Goddess of my gens.
 
 
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55755 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Venator podcasted
Salve!
 
Yes I noticed that you were on this month's ravencast. I look forward to listening to you on my way to work after I download it to my mp3 player. Perhaps you could also do an interview on Vox Romana?
 
Vale,
 
Esquiline Hill, Vicus Sabuci
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Venator podcasted

Valetudo;

If anyone's ever been curious as to what I sound like, here's your
chance to decide if my voice does have "Kermit the Frog" overtones ,-)

http://ravencast. podbean.com/ 2008/03/03/ episode-19- asatru-artists- piparskeggr/
or
http://tinyurl. com/28y66w

Ravencast is a service to the Asatru - Germano-Norse Heathen
community, so the interview does concentrate on that worldview, but
from my personal viewpoint.

--
============ ========= ========= ========= ==
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
http://www.myspace. com/stefnullarss on
http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55756 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
And I.
Something smells fishy here.
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Legio XX VV
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55757 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
I am afraid I got Mars:

MARS
GOD OF WAR
You are not one who is afraid to charge into battle (even if it's a
video game) knowing that Mars, the God of War, will be on your flank.
You are also known to savor the peace, as at home on a blissful beach
as you are on a bloody battlefield.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
<marsvigilia@...> wrote:
>
> And I.
> Something smells fishy here.
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Legio XX VV
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55758 From: J Auger Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
I tried different answers and got Minerva both times.  Interesting.

gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
Salvete,

Yeah I went back and took it several times with different answers and
got Jupiter every time.

Hmmmmmm....

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
<diana@...> wrote:
>
> Me too!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gaiuspopilliuslaen as" <gaiuspopillius@ ...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:40 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
>
>
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Jupiter!!!
> >
> > Not bad.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> > <lucius_vitellius_ triarius@ > wrote:
> >>
> >> Salvete,
> >>
> >> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman
God or
> >> Goddess is:
> >>
> >> http://www.hboasia. com/rome/ quiz/index. html
> >>
> >> Valete optime,
> >> Triarius
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55759 From: M�IVL�SEVERVS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete omnes,
 
Well... I also got Jupiter. I am in a very good company, indeed...
 
Valete,
 
M.IVL.SEVERVS

J Auger <augerjosh@...> wrote:
I tried different answers and got Minerva both times.  Interesting.

gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com> wrote:
Salvete,

Yeah I went back and took it several times with different answers and
got Jupiter every time.

Hmmmmmm....

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
<diana@...> wrote:
>
> Me too!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gaiuspopilliuslaen as" <gaiuspopillius@ ...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:40 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
>
>
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Jupiter!!!
> >
> > Not bad.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Laenas
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> > <lucius_vitellius_ triarius@ > wrote:
> >>
> >> Salvete,
> >>
> >> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman
God or
> >> Goddess is:
> >>
> >> http://www.hboasia. com/rome/ quiz/index. html
> >>
> >> Valete optime,
> >> Triarius
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55760 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Declare a mistrial please
Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,

NR ML in cc.

First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during the last
weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
situation.

It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he admits his
guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the process
continued, but without the jury."

As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of us have a
real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with family
matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to countries in
the real world.

The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational law when
it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as well. For
example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried twice
for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has taken
Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This case would
have been thrown out before it even began.

>a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established procedures
>is a bad citizen.

I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare-- before the
trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are pre-judging him
based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court the last
time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for 10 years.
This is bias before the trial even starts.

>In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
>the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.
In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court case
where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the trial
even starts.

And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this case-- since
our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be declared and
the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above (the full
text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.

Thanks for your time,
Diana Octavia Aventina
_____________

----- Original Message -----
From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
To: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com ; Stephen Gallagher ; Marcus Horatius
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
Subject: [Novaromatribunalis] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: DILATIO


Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes civibus Novae
Romae S·P·D·

Ex officio Praetoris

Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor and go to
court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the process had
begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their presence.


At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.


L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis with his
usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a person's
identity.


Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with established
rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.

But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:

He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve
his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and cooperation
embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"

In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.


Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf to the
cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but what can I
do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He is not a
child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the responsibilities
of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of Directors of Nova
Roma Inc.

L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the Constitution to
achieve his desired ends.

He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and then say,
"I am just a victim".


Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good person, a good
father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L. Equitius so I
am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good father or
a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who makes deaf
ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.


L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on the list of
NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he did not
come.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says that there
are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.

I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a person is
not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically convicted
because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to defend
itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the jury.

In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
ito...........com peroranto ambo praesentes.................prasenti litem
addicito............." (if one is called to go in the court he must go, to
speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not appear
the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).

In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
"If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the
Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor,
this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the
right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and
will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses
the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo
contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has
acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or
vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor or Reus, is
justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his
sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor."


In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.


Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has emerged
as a guarantor of L. Equitius.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and exatio.


It's probably what I should do.


I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters and friends.
L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal basis, but
which must be studied.

But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.

I defer the trial until next March 9.

During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of L. Equitius
and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.

Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M. Moravius
and T. Iulius

--
M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55761 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
I can't believe I wasted all this time. But...

There are 6 question. Each question has 2 possible answers.
Therefore, the number of possible answer sets is 2^6 or 64.

I actually went through and tested every possible answer set. 50% or
32 sets resulted in the answer Jupiter. All other sets were divided
equally 3 sets per god.

The questions were:
-----------------------------
Question 1:
My favorite films to watch on HBO are:
( ) Shoot 'em up action flicks
( ) Cry-my-eyes-out romantic comedies

Question 2:
My idea of a great getaway is:
( ) Stretching out on a tropical isle with a Mai Tai
( ) Pick-axing my way to the top of Mt. Everest

Question 3:
Pick a pickup line
( ) This DJ rocks, let's dance!
( ) How do you feel about lots of children?

Question 4:
I'd rather read...
( ) The latest mystery
( ) Treatise on theoretical quantum physics

Question 5:
Answer honestly now
( ) My grades put me at the head of the class
( ) I faked my parents' signatures on report cards

Question 6:
Fill in the blank: Multi-tasking...
( ) ...lets me get more done in a day
( ) ...was dreamed up by corporate masters to squeeze even more out of me



HBO described the Gods as follows:
-----------------------------------------------------
APOLLO
GOD OF THE ARTS
A bit of a daydreamer (as your teachers so often reminded you), your
mind is apt to wander at any time of day. Yet Apollo, God of the Arts,
will be there to protect you and reconnect you with reality when
absolutely necessary.

BACCHUS
GOD OF WINE & MYSTERIES
You certainly know a good time when you see it, a trait you share with
Bacchus, God of Wine and Mysteries. Where will the night take you? Do
you really care? Trust Bacchus to steer you to an evening of music and
mystery.

CERES
GODDESS OF AGRICULTURE & FERTILITY
Your nature is to nurture. Where others see a barren landscape, you
see potential for lush fields overflowing with abundance. All it takes
is seed, water and the favor of Ceres, Goddess of Agriculture and
Fertility.

DIANA
GODDESS OF HUNT & PROTECTOR OF CHILDREN
You learned early that all things in life are a quest. Whether you're
on the hunt for adventure or your life's partner, Diana, Goddess of
the Hunt and Protector of Children will make sure your aim is true.

JUNO
GODDESS OF MARRIAGE & CONSORT OF JUPITER
Who are you really? Just like Juno, Goddess of Marriage and Queen of
the Gods, your power rests in your ability to assume many guises.
You're as adept at guiding world affairs as you are at affairs of the
heart.

JUPITER
GOD OF THE SKY AND RULER OF THE ROMAN PANTHEON
Your ability to laugh at the world can't hide a caring and curious
nature. Jupiter, God of the Sky and Ruler of the Roman Pantheon, is
your protector as you combine active pursuits with a sense of paternal
activism.

MARS
GOD OF WAR
You are not one who is afraid to charge into battle (even if it's a
video game) knowing that Mars, the God of War, will be on your flank.
You are also known to savor the peace, as at home on a blissful beach
as you are on a bloody battlefield

MERCURY
MESSENGER OF THE GODS
Nobody can pin you down. Just like Mercury, Messenger of the Gods and
Patron of Merchants, Travelers and Thieves, your mercurial nature can
have you socializing with anyone from world leaders to denizens of the
underworld in a single day.

MINERVA
GODDESS OF WISDOM, WAR & CRAFTS
Good grades in school don't mean you're bookish. In fact, your
wide-ranging interests and mastery of many subjects can be unnerving
to some. Take solace in the wise guidance of Minerva, Goddess of
Wisdom, War and Crafts.

NEPTUNE
GOD OF THE SEAS & EARTHQUAKES
The perfect storm? While it may send others running for cover you
choose to face into the wind, Neptune, God of the Sea and Earthquakes
at your side. You know that one can't master natural forces, but
merely understand them.

VENUS
GODDESS OF LOVE & BEAUTY
You don't just take to the dance floor, you own it. You have learned
well the lessons of Venus, Goddess of Love and Beauty: while beauty is
more than skin deep, a good healthy glow still goes a long, long way
in this world.

VULCAN
GOD OF SMITHS & METALWORKERS
While the so-called smart kids were off reading about nuclear
reactors, you were just as apt to build one in your backyard. Action
over accolades, grit over grades are the lessons you've absorbed from
Vulcan, God of Smiths and Metalworkers.



The Answer sets were as follows:
-------------------------------------------------
111111 Minerva
111112 Jupiter
111121 Jupiter
111122 Bacchus
111211 Jupiter
111212 Jupiter
111221 Mercury
111222 Neptune
112111 Jupiter
112112 Jupiter
112121 Diana
112122 Diana
112211 Jupiter
112212 Jupiter
112221 Neptune
112222 Neptune
121111 Minerva
121112 Jupiter
121121 Apollo
121122 Apollo
121211 Minerva
121212 Mars
121221 Jupiter
121222 Mars
122111 Jupiter
122112 Jupiter
122121 Jupiter
122122 Apollo
122211 Jupiter
122212 Jupiter
122221 Jupiter
122222 Mercury
211111 Jupiter
211112 Jupiter
211121 Bacchus
211122 Bacchus
211211 Jupiter
211212 Jupiter
211221 Vulcan
211222 Jupiter
212111 Ceres
212112 Venus
212121 Juno
212122 Diana
212211 Jupiter
212212 Venus
212221 Venus
212222 Juno
221111 Mercury
221112 Jupiter
221121 Jupiter
221122 Jupiter
221211 Jupiter
221212 Jupiter
221221 Jupiter
221222 Jupiter
222111 Ceres
222112 Juno
222121 Jupiter
222122 Ceres
222211 Jupiter
222212 Jupiter
222221 Vulcan
222222 Vulcan



On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 1:55 PM, M•IVL•SEVERVS
<marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Well... I also got Jupiter. I am in a very good company, indeed...
>
> Valete,
>
> M.IVL.SEVERVS
>
>
>
> J Auger <augerjosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> I tried different answers and got Minerva both times. Interesting.
>
> gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Yeah I went back and took it several times with different answers and
> got Jupiter every time.
>
> Hmmmmmm....
>
> Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
> <diana@...> wrote:
> >
> > Me too!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@...>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:40 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
> >
> >
> > > Salvete,
> > >
> > > Jupiter!!!
> > >
> > > Not bad.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Laenas
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
> > > <lucius_vitellius_triarius@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Salvete,
> > >>
> > >> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman
> God or
> > >> Goddess is:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
> > >>
> > >> Valete optime,
> > >> Triarius
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>



--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Legio XX VV
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55762 From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Salve Aventina
 

If I were a person unjustly, today I would have applied my own edicts, but I have heard the voices of supporters and friends of L.Equitius, I listened to his lawyer and I am thinking about what is more convenient done.

The same laws of Nova Roma allow me to issue a sentence without hearing the iudices, as is written in an edict.

L. Equitius is guilty of contempt for the second time in less than a month, he is guilty of contempt of his peers and those who believe in Nova Roma as a joint project.


It's my right to speak in a trial and you are wrong to interpret my words, my whole speech is nothing more than the argument of a sentence: L. Equitius is guilty of contempt, aggravated, premeditated, with treachery and recidivist


Now I can only ponder two things:

1. The amount of fine (between 15 to 350 USD) to be paid by L. Equitius
2. If I am consistent with the law (that I have issued) and adjudge the case to the only present part or if I give to Galerius Paulinus the opportunity to try to prove the innocence of a person who is too proud to present himself to a trial before their peers, of a person who decided to hide himself somewhere,  waiting for their friends and supporters him out of troubles.

 

None of this would have happened if any of his friends or supporters had been offered as a guarantor of Cincinnatus, but nobody has dared to ensure that Cincinnatus accepts an someday to stand trial.

 

L.Equitius knew the consequences of his premeditated decision not to respond to the call of the Praetor, his advocatus, his friends and his followers also knew these consequences. His lawyer and I have sought to communicate with him, his lawyer has been unable to contact him and he has not responded to my messages.

 

And finally the iudices: Do you really think that people that the Goddess Fortuna has chosen as a iudices have so little personality to be influenced by my comments?

 

IF you really think so, then you have a poor opinion about our fellow citizens.

 

From this moment I will not further comment on the trial until it is restarted. I am going to take advantage of this postponement to meditate properly decisions that I should take.

 

Cura ut valeas

 

M. Curiatius Complutensis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please

Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,

NR ML in cc.

First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during the last
weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
situation.

It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he admits his
guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the process
continued, but without the jury."

As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of us have a
real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with family
matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to countries in
the real world.

The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational law when
it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as well. For
example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried twice
for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has taken
Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This case would
have been thrown out before it even began.

>a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established procedures
>is a bad citizen.

I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare-- before the
trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are pre-judging him
based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court the last
time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for 10 years.
This is bias before the trial even starts.

>In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
>the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.
In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court case
where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the trial
even starts.

And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this case-- since
our NR laws do not cover everything-- - a mistrial needs to be declared and
the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above (the full
text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.

Thanks for your time,
Diana Octavia Aventina
____________ _

----- Original Message -----
From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
To: novaromatribunalis@ yahoogroups. com ; Stephen Gallagher ; Marcus Horatius
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
Subject: [Novaromatribunalis ] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: DILATIO

Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes civibus Novae
Romae S·P·D·

Ex officio Praetoris

Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor and go to
court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the process had
begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their presence.

At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.

L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis with his
usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a person's
identity.

Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with established
rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.

But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:

He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve
his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and cooperation
embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"

In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.

Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf to the
cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but what can I
do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He is not a
child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the responsibilities
of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of Directors of Nova
Roma Inc.

L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the Constitution to
achieve his desired ends.

He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and then say,
"I am just a victim".

Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good person, a good
father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L. Equitius so I
am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good father or
a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who makes deaf
ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.

L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on the list of
NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he did not
come.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says that there
are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.

I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a person is
not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically convicted
because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to defend
itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the jury.

In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
ito......... ..com peroranto ambo praesentes.. ......... ......prasenti litem
addicito.... ......... " (if one is called to go in the court he must go, to
speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not appear
the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).

In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
"If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the
Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor,
this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the
right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and
will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses
the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo
contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has
acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or
vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor or Reus, is
justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his
sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor."

In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.

Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has emerged
as a guarantor of L. Equitius.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and exatio.

It's probably what I should do.

I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters and friends.
L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal basis, but
which must be studied.

But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.

I defer the trial until next March 9.

During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of L. Equitius
and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.

Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M. Moravius
and T. Iulius

--
M.CVRIATIVS. COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55763 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Oops, made a mistake. Only two sets for Mars. Poor Mars.

Here are the answer sets for each God:
---------------------------------------------------------
Apollo 121121
Apollo 121122
Apollo 122122
---------------------------
Bacchus 111122
Bacchus 211121
Bacchus 211122
---------------------------
Ceres 212111
Ceres 222111
Ceres 222122
---------------------------
Diana 112121
Diana 112122
Diana 212122
---------------------------
Juno 212121
Juno 212222
Juno 222112
---------------------------
Mars 121212
Mars 121222
---------------------------
Mercury 111221
Mercury 122222
Mercury 221111
---------------------------
Minerva 111111
Minerva 121111
Minerva 121211
---------------------------
Neptune 111222
Neptune 112221
Neptune 112222
---------------------------
Venus 212112
Venus 212212
Venus 212221
---------------------------
Vulcan 211221
Vulcan 222221
Vulcan 222222
---------------------------
Jupiter 111112
Jupiter 111121
Jupiter 111211
Jupiter 111212
Jupiter 112111
Jupiter 112112
Jupiter 112211
Jupiter 112212
Jupiter 121112
Jupiter 121221
Jupiter 122111
Jupiter 122112
Jupiter 122121
Jupiter 122211
Jupiter 122212
Jupiter 122221
Jupiter 211111
Jupiter 211112
Jupiter 211211
Jupiter 211212
Jupiter 211222
Jupiter 212211
Jupiter 221112
Jupiter 221121
Jupiter 221122
Jupiter 221211
Jupiter 221212
Jupiter 221221
Jupiter 221222
Jupiter 222121
Jupiter 222211
Jupiter 222212
---------------------------
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Legio XX VV
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55764 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
C. Popillius Laenas P. Domino Antonio SPD

>>I can't believe I wasted all this time. But...<<

Hahahahahahah!!! Excellent information to know anyway. You must be a
mathmatician!

Vale.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55765 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Drats! I am exposed!

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "P. Dominus Antonius"
<marsvigilia@...> wrote:
>
> Oops, made a mistake. Only two sets for Mars. Poor Mars.
>
> Here are the answer sets for each God:
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Apollo 121121
> Apollo 121122
> Apollo 122122
> ---------------------------
> Bacchus 111122
> Bacchus 211121
> Bacchus 211122
> ---------------------------
> Ceres 212111
> Ceres 222111
> Ceres 222122
> ---------------------------
> Diana 112121
> Diana 112122
> Diana 212122
> ---------------------------
> Juno 212121
> Juno 212222
> Juno 222112
> ---------------------------
> Mars 121212
> Mars 121222
> ---------------------------
> Mercury 111221
> Mercury 122222
> Mercury 221111
> ---------------------------
> Minerva 111111
> Minerva 121111
> Minerva 121211
> ---------------------------
> Neptune 111222
> Neptune 112221
> Neptune 112222
> ---------------------------
> Venus 212112
> Venus 212212
> Venus 212221
> ---------------------------
> Vulcan 211221
> Vulcan 222221
> Vulcan 222222
> ---------------------------
> Jupiter 111112
> Jupiter 111121
> Jupiter 111211
> Jupiter 111212
> Jupiter 112111
> Jupiter 112112
> Jupiter 112211
> Jupiter 112212
> Jupiter 121112
> Jupiter 121221
> Jupiter 122111
> Jupiter 122112
> Jupiter 122121
> Jupiter 122211
> Jupiter 122212
> Jupiter 122221
> Jupiter 211111
> Jupiter 211112
> Jupiter 211211
> Jupiter 211212
> Jupiter 211222
> Jupiter 212211
> Jupiter 221112
> Jupiter 221121
> Jupiter 221122
> Jupiter 221211
> Jupiter 221212
> Jupiter 221221
> Jupiter 221222
> Jupiter 222121
> Jupiter 222211
> Jupiter 222212
> ---------------------------
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Legio XX VV
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55766 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
SALVE AMICE!
 

"Q. Valerius Poplicola" <catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
Drats! I am exposed!>>>
Try to translate them in Latin!  

VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS


> Apollo 121121
> Apollo 121122
> Apollo 122122
> ------------ --------- ------
> Bacchus 111122
> Bacchus 211121
> Bacchus 211122
> ------------ --------- ------
> Ceres 212111
> Ceres 222111
> Ceres 222122
> ------------ --------- ------
> Diana 112121
> Diana 112122
> Diana 212122
> ------------ --------- ------
> Juno 212121
> Juno 212222
> Juno 222112
> ------------ --------- ------
> Mars 121212
> Mars 121222
> ------------ --------- ------
> Mercury 111221
> Mercury 122222
> Mercury 221111
> ------------ --------- ------
> Minerva 111111
> Minerva 121111
> Minerva 121211
> ------------ --------- ------
> Neptune 111222
> Neptune 112221
> Neptune 112222
> ------------ --------- ------
> Venus 212112
> Venus 212212
> Venus 212221
> ------------ --------- ------
> Vulcan 211221
> Vulcan 222221
> Vulcan 222222
> ------------ --------- ------
> Jupiter 111112
> Jupiter 111121
> Jupiter 111211
> Jupiter 111212
> Jupiter 112111
> Jupiter 112112
> Jupiter 112211
> Jupiter 112212
> Jupiter 121112
> Jupiter 121221
> Jupiter 122111
> Jupiter 122112
> Jupiter 122121
> Jupiter 122211
> Jupiter 122212
> Jupiter 122221
> Jupiter 211111
> Jupiter 211112
> Jupiter 211211
> Jupiter 211212
> Jupiter 211222
> Jupiter 212211
> Jupiter 221112
> Jupiter 221121
> Jupiter 221122
> Jupiter 221211
> Jupiter 221212
> Jupiter 221221
> Jupiter 221222
> Jupiter 222121
> Jupiter 222211
> Jupiter 222212
> ------------ --------- ------
> --
> >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
> Legio XX VV
> Tony Dah m
>
> Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
> Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.
>




"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55767 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete,
I got Jupiter, then I retook the test until I found out that in order
to get Minerva (my favourite goddess and role model) you have to like
shoot-em-up action films AND be a workaholic.
Problem is, the test is too simple, for example I don't like
shoot-em-up films because I like "cut-em-up" films better: I find guns
boring, while I love swords, spears, bows and arrows, etc. But there
was no option for that.
Valete,
Livia
>
> Salvete,
>
> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
> Goddess is:
>
> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55768 From: P. Dominus Antonius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Well true about limited options. But clearly Shoot-em-ups are closer
to Cut-em-ups, than Romantic-comedies.

I would think it might be possible to come up with a better set of
questions. Where the answers might not result in a definitive answer
but a ranking of Gods that come closest to a persons personality.

Perhaps a primitive dating software could be adapted to this purpose.
--
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Legio XX VV
Tony Dah m

Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
Mahometismus religio pacis, nex omnibus dissidentibus.


On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
> I got Jupiter, then I retook the test until I found out that in order
> to get Minerva (my favourite goddess and role model) you have to like
> shoot-em-up action films AND be a workaholic.
> Problem is, the test is too simple, for example I don't like
> shoot-em-up films because I like "cut-em-up" films better: I find guns
> boring, while I love swords, spears, bows and arrows, etc. But there
> was no option for that.
> Valete,
> Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55769 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:
> I got Jupiter, then I retook the test until I found out that in
order to get Minerva (my favourite goddess and role model) you have
to like shoot-em-up action films AND be a workaholic.>>>

I got Minerva but I agree I was forced to choose shoot-em-up. I don't
like this type but anyway is better than romantic when it comes to
choose only from these poor options.

> Problem is, the test is too simple, for example I don't like
> shoot-em-up films because I like "cut-em-up" films better: I find
guns boring, while I love swords, spears, bows and arrows, etc. But
there was no option for that.>>>

I totaly agree with you at this point. I find guns boring, too.
(Artoria Marcella forgive me!)
BTW, you were able to find some films more realistic than Kurosawa's
ones?

VALE ET VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55770 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: AEDILIS PLEBIS NEEDED - CALL FOR CANDIDATES - corrected
L. Livia Plauta Tribuna Plebis omnibus civibus Novae Romae SPD

A call for CANDIDATES is hereby issued for the office of AEDILIS
PLEBIS, in order to replace Aedilis Flavius Galerius Aurelianus, who
resigned. The candidate who will be accepted by the Comitia Plebis
Tributa by passage of a further plebiscitum de consecratio will begin
his/her terms of office on the first appropriate day after the
plebiscitum. Any and all qualified Plebeian Citizens who desire to
hold this office in the coming months shall:

(1) declare their candidacy to the current Tribuni Plebis and
(2) announce their intentions to run for office before the Comitia
Plebis Tributa (ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com).

Announcements of candidacy for these offices that are made to any
other Nova Roma lists are allowed but will not meet the requirements
needed to be recognized as a candidate. You must post your
announcement to the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Eligibility:

AEDILIS PLEBIS - (one position available) Candidates must be Cives, in
good standing, for at least six full months before taking office. They
must be of the Plebeian Order, Assidui, and at least 21 years of age.
Candidates for Aedilis Plebis must also have served at least six
months as a Tribunus Plebis, Quaestors, Magister Aranearius, Editor
Commentariorum, or Propraetor, or the candidate must demonstrate that
he or she has served as a scriba to one of the current Aediles Plebis
for at least six months.

Time limits for declaring candidacies:

Announcements of candidacy before the Comitia Plebis Tributa and
Declarations of candidacy to the Tribuni Plebis must be received no
later than 23.59 CET 18 March (before Midnight at Rome, 6:00 PM EDT,
or 3:00 PM PDT).

L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55771 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salve Sabine,
the most realistic film I saw from the point of view of sword fights
was "Taboo" - I think it's by Takeshi Kitano, but I'm not sure.
I think its equivalent for the "western" fighting style doesn't exist:
at least I never saw a realistic film.
Vale,
Livia


> I totaly agree with you at this point. I find guns boring, too.
> (Artoria Marcella forgive me!)
> BTW, you were able to find some films more realistic than Kurosawa's
> ones?
>
> VALE ET VALETE,
> IVL SABINVS
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55772 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Venator podcasted
SALVE!
 
Nice to hear you! Listening, seeing makes the difference.
Thank you for presenting this.
 
VALE BENE,
IVL SABINVS

Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
Valetudo;

If anyone's ever been curious as to what I sound like, here's your
chance to decide if my voice does have "Kermit the Frog" overtones ,-)

http://ravencast. podbean.com/ 2008/03/03/ episode-19- asatru-artists- piparskeggr/
or
http://tinyurl. com/28y66w

Ravencast is a service to the Asatru - Germano-Norse Heathen
community, so the interview does concentrate on that worldview, but
from my personal viewpoint.

--
============ ========= ========= ========= ==
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
http://www.myspace. com/stefnullarss on
http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.



"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55773 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Realistic sword fights in movies
Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> writes:

> the most realistic film I saw from the point of view of sword fights
> was "Taboo" - I think it's by Takeshi Kitano, but I'm not sure.

I thought _The Yakuza_ (1974) was gruesomely accurate. See
http://imdb.com/title/tt0073918/ for a synopsis. Kenichi Takakura is
superb as the master swordsman.

For a very different kind of swordsmanship, the 1973 version of _The
Three Musketeers_ with Michael York as D'Artagnan is superb. The
opening scene alone was worth the price of admission.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55774 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Salve Marine,

> I thought _The Yakuza_ (1974) was gruesomely accurate. See
> http://imdb.com/title/tt0073918/ for a synopsis. Kenichi Takakura is
> superb as the master swordsman.

I think I didn't see this one.

> For a very different kind of swordsmanship, the 1973 version of _The
> Three Musketeers_ with Michael York as D'Artagnan is superb. The
> opening scene alone was worth the price of admission.
>
No, I saw this one, but no western-made film has realistic sword
fights. The reason is simple: they are not spectacular enough. If you
want realism you have to look at olympic fencing: ten seconds and it's
over.

For battles matters are different and I think I have seen some
realistic battles on film, but then in this field I'm not really
competent, because I never fought battles in full armour.
Vale,
Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55775 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:

> For battles matters are different and I think I have seen some
> realistic battles on film, but then in this field I'm not really
> competent, because I never fought battles in full armour.>>>

Luc Besson done an excellent job in "Joane of Arc" (1999)

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55776 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
Avete;

On 3/4/08, Lucia Livia Plauta wrote:
>
> Salve Marine,
>
> [excision]
>
> For battles matters are different and I think I have seen some
> realistic battles on film, but then in this field I'm not really
> competent, because I never fought battles in full armour.
> Vale,
> Plauta
>

Having fought in large scale field battles and small scale melees, in
full armor (SCA recreational historic re-creation)...plus one on one
tourney fights...

My favorite battle scenes are in The 300 Spartans (1962) and Henry V
(1989) and Robin and Marian ( 1976) for a realistic look at a duel of
champions.

Though one knows in one's head that the opponents do not have real
weapons (just rattan, which has about the same heft as historic steel
weapons from my studies), the gut feeling you get is very similar to
that which I had in the one time I was in a firefight during my
military experience.

--
=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55777 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Realistic sword fights in movies
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:
>
> Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> writes:
>
> > the most realistic film I saw from the point of view of sword fights
> > was "Taboo" - I think it's by Takeshi Kitano, but I'm not sure.
>
> I thought _The Yakuza_ (1974) was gruesomely accurate. See
> http://imdb.com/title/tt0073918/ for a synopsis. Kenichi Takakura
is
> superb as the master swordsman.
>
> For a very different kind of swordsmanship, the 1973 version of _The
> Three Musketeers_ with Michael York as D'Artagnan is superb. The
> opening scene alone was worth the price of admission.

I'm not sure how realistic it is but the swordfight somewhere in the
middle of The Princess Bride (character climbs up a cliff on a rope,
fights someone at the top_ also falls into that category.

The culminating swordfight in the The Seahawk with Errol Flynn is also
pretty spectacular.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55778 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Two more pieces of Nova Roma history
Salvete,

To continue commemorating our anniversary (I'm not going to use the
word celebrate while what I believe are proscriptions going on) I
offer two more pieces of history.

Below are two emails, one from March 1998 written by Marcus Cassius,
the other by Flavius Vedius in April 1998. The first email, by
Cassius, talks about the response my ad had generated on some pagan
newsgroups.

The second email talks about reinstituting the Vestals. That
discussion brought about one of our first resignations, by a woman
who said the role of celibacy should play no role in the position of
Vestal and that men had no role discussing it anyway. I'm not trying
to generate a discussion of Vestals and celibacy (I honestly don't
know the position of Nova Roma on that at the moment anway), this is
a 10 year old discussion. I post it simply in the interest of
history. It seemed to jump out at me of the messages from that
period.

Unfortunately I don't have her posts, other than one with one
sentence. I hit delete a lot it seems. I think we all did, not
thinking to save them for posterity. There were no archives for email
lists.

First message:


Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:00:50 EST
From: NovaRomaNH <NovaRomaNH@...>
To: Multiple recipients of <novaroma@...>
Subject: NOVA ROMA: Trouble on soc.religion.paganism
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Salvete, all!

Looks like we've got our first small "newsgroup" problem brewing, on
the
moderated board soc.religion.paganism.

Decius Iunius posted a brief message about Nova Roma. The responses to
it so far have been "Oh goody! Can we all burn the Christians now?"
and a
couple to the effect that "The Celts were the ones who suffered under
the Romans!"

I made a brief reply to the "Christian" posting, but for some reason
my
post hasn't been put up. I got a message from the automatic list
receiver
saying that a human moderator would screen my post for approval, but
nothing
yet, and my message hasn't appeared.

This sort of thing is tricky... it's not great to leave posts like
that,
but we also don't want to start a war with the Celtic folks. Thought
we
might want to discuss the situation here before anybody saw this
thread and started
making their own responses!

Valete,

Cassius


Second message:

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:34:21 -0400
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <novaroma@...>
To: Multiple recipients of <novaroma@...>
Subject: NOVA ROMA: Vestal Virgins (long)
Status: RO
X-Status: A

Wow! I go away for two days and the list positively explodes!!! Guess
we're all trying to get in our opinions before it goes down.

It is my belief that those who hold the office of Vestal Virgin be
required to maintain celibacy. For those who believe that "men
shouldn't be
involved in questions of women's sexuality" I say, sorry. In my
opinion, this is
a question that has already been resolved by Vesta Herself nearly
three
thousand years ago. I don't know of any source for the origin of the
Vestal Virgins, but the office as practiced in the mid-late Republic
and early
Empire (whence Nova Roma is deriving our inspiration for our
restoration
of the public Religio Romana) is defined by their celibacy. That's
what
makes aVestal Virgin a Vestal Virgin. Take it away and you have just
another
devotee of Vesta.

Let's take a look at the historical Collegia of the Vestals. They
numbered
as many as six. They were chosen by lot by the Pontifex Maximus from
among Patrician girls (later non-Patricians were accepted as well)
ages 6-10.
These girls had to be free from physical imperfection and have both a
living mother and father. They had to maintain chastity, under
penalty of dire
consequences if they failed to do so. They were required to serve for
thirty years, but could serve longer if they wished. And (this to me
is
important as a key to why they needed to be virgins in the first
place) they wore
the distinctive hair style known as "sex crines" ("six locks") which
was
worn only by brides on their wedding day.

This last item suggests to me that their virginity was symbolic of
some
sort of position as "eternal bride". Brides were usually expected to
be
virgins on their wedding nights (of course, not in these enlightened
times, but
in days gone by this was so). Thus, I believe it a valid point to say
that
virginity was an absolute requirement, a defining characteristic, of
the
Vestal Virgins (as if the name were not enough to suggest that).

Now, as far as our modern restoration of the public Religio Romana and
the sacred Collegia, the Vestal Virgins must certainly hold a role.
It has
always been my opinion that (especially in religious matters) we
should
be as close to the historical root as possible, altering things only
where
absolutely necessary. I, for one, don't see any of us in a position to
lightly change those things which were pleasing to the Gods. Until I
hear otherwise, I'm not going to assume a God has changed His or Her
mind on
a particular issue.

On the other hand, we must remain practical. Are we likely to find
any 8
year olds who are willing to dedicate themselves to chastity for the
next 30 years? Unlikely. However, I do believe a compromise is
possible that
will satisfy both the desire to be true to tradition and the need to
bend to
modern sensibilities. My proposal for the Vestals would be to exact a
ten-year term of office. Or a fifteen-year one. Or a variable term, up
until the wedding date. Or a variable term until such time as the
Vestal
Virgin decides to resign. As I recall there was historical precident
for such
resignations. The position would be on a voluntary basis.

My point is, some people seem to have a misconception of the Vestal
Virgins.
It is not a decision made for life, nor is it forced upon someone
unwillingly. Believe it or not, some people actually think it's a good
idea to remain chaste before marriage, even today. Just because that
might
not be your particular point of view, don't denigrate it as a
legitimate choice
for others.

I think it will be possible for us to eventually fill a Collegia of
Vestal Virgins under such conditions. Starting at age 6-10, having
celibacy,
being voluntary, and lasting until either for a set time period or
until the
Vestal resigns. Historical tradition is satisfied, modern
sensibilities
are satisfied. I think even today we can find six teenagers who would
be
willing to forgo sex for a few years as a sign of their piety. If
not, then I
say better not to do it at all than to completely alter the idea in
the name
of modernity.

Flavius Vedius Germanicus, Consul and Senator

Nova Roma
Post Office Box 1688
Morristown, NJ 07962
www.novaroma.org
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55779 From: L. Vitellius Triarius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Vinum
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Annia Minucia Marcella" <annia@...>
wrote:
>
> I dislike alcohol very much. It just tastes bad, in my opinion. But
if I had to pick one I'd pick mead :)

LVT: Mead? You heathen! (hehehe)

Vale optime,
Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55780 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Who is your Roman God? Quiz
Salvete,
Mine is Mercury.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:08:10 -0000
"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
> Goddess is:
>
> http://www.hboasia.com/rome/quiz/index.html
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55781 From: C. Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Salve Diana Octavia,

Ancient Rome had something Nova Roma does not have -- people trained
in the law. It is indeed distressing to watch the magistrates of Nova
Roma scramble to understand and apply basic legal precepts. The one
person in this controversy known to me to be a lawyer has chosen to
use her skills for advocacy rather than to help the Republic.

I think you might enjoy reading the European Convention on Human
Rights, which says, in relevant part, "No one shall be liable to be
tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction
of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally
acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure
of that State." [Seventh Protocol, Article Four]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (United Nations, 1948) is
also interesting. "Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and
public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the
determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge
against him." [Article 10]. And, "No one shall be held guilty of any
penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not
constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at
the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed
than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was
committed." [Article 11(2)]

For interested lay people, I recommend the Wikipedia articles on
"Double Jeopordy," "Res Judicata" and "Collateral Estoppel." I hope
our Nova Roman officials will do some research.

Vale,
Iustinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina" <diana@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,
>
> NR ML in cc.
>
> First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during
the last
> weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
> situation.
>
> It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
> macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
> stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
> absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he
admits his
> guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the
process
> continued, but without the jury."
>
> As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of
us have a
> real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with
family
> matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to
countries in
> the real world.
>
> The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational
law when
> it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as
well. For
> example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried
twice
> for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has
taken
> Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This
case would
> have been thrown out before it even began.
>
> >a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established
procedures
> >is a bad citizen.
>
> I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare--
before the
> trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are
pre-judging him
> based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court
the last
> time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for
10 years.
> This is bias before the trial even starts.
>
> >In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to
go to
> >the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
> In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court
case
> where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the
trial
> even starts.
>
> And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this
case-- since
> our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be
declared and
> the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above
(the full
> text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
> appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Diana Octavia Aventina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55782 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Birthday of a young Nova Roman
Salvete cives,

Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius, AKA
Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.

Valete,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55783 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Uploading files
Salvete,

Can one still do this or does a moderator have to do it?

Valete,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55784 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Birthday of a young Nova Roman
Salve amice
 
Assuming there is anything left of Nova Roma, may he in fourteen years inherit his majority in a citizenship to a res publica cast in the foundations of honour and Romanitas.
 
Sexta Iunia and myself send advanced congratulations to young Decius Iunius and my eternal best wishes to you and your family amice. He is exceptionally fortunate to have such a father.
 
Vale bene
Caesar
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:45 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Birthday of a young Nova Roman

Salvete cives,

Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius, AKA
Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.

Valete,

Palladius

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55785 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Uploading files
Salve Palladi,

deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> writes:

> Salvete,
>
> Can one still do this or does a moderator have to do it?

It's been a moderator only function for the last four years, ever
since an anonymous party uploaded some pictures and refused to admit
to it. If you want something uploaded, just send it to me.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55786 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:

I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.

I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.

And it never arrived. Am I moderated? Are all members moderated?
Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.



Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Aventina
>
> If I were a person unjustly, today I would have applied my own
edicts, but I have heard the voices of supporters and friends of
L.Equitius, I listened to his lawyer and I am thinking about what is
more convenient done.
>
> The same laws of Nova Roma allow me to issue a sentence without
hearing the iudices, as is written in an edict.
>
> L. Equitius is guilty of contempt for the second time in less than a
month, he is guilty of contempt of his peers and those who believe in
Nova Roma as a joint project.
>
>
> It's my right to speak in a trial and you are wrong to interpret my
words, my whole speech is nothing more than the argument of a
sentence: L. Equitius is guilty of contempt, aggravated, premeditated,
with treachery and recidivist
>
>
> Now I can only ponder two things:
>
> 1. The amount of fine (between 15 to 350 USD) to be paid by L. Equitius
> 2. If I am consistent with the law (that I have issued) and adjudge
the case to the only present part or if I give to Galerius Paulinus
the opportunity to try to prove the innocence of a person who is too
proud to present himself to a trial before their peers, of a person
who decided to hide himself somewhere, waiting for their friends and
supporters him out of troubles.
>
>
>
> None of this would have happened if any of his friends or supporters
had been offered as a guarantor of Cincinnatus, but nobody has dared
to ensure that Cincinnatus accepts an someday to stand trial.
>
>
>
> L.Equitius knew the consequences of his premeditated decision not to
respond to the call of the Praetor, his advocatus, his friends and his
followers also knew these consequences. His lawyer and I have sought
to communicate with him, his lawyer has been unable to contact him and
he has not responded to my messages.
>
>
>
> And finally the iudices: Do you really think that people that the
Goddess Fortuna has chosen as a iudices have so little personality to
be influenced by my comments?
>
>
>
> IF you really think so, then you have a poor opinion about our
fellow citizens.
>
>
>
> From this moment I will not further comment on the trial until it is
restarted. I am going to take advantage of this postponement to
meditate properly decisions that I should take.
>
>
>
> Cura ut valeas
>
>
>
> M. Curiatius Complutensis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Octavia Aventina
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; Novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:50 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please
>
>
> Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,
>
> NR ML in cc.
>
> First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during
the last
> weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an
unpleasant
> situation.
>
> It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
> macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many
countries
> stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is
declared in
> absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he
admits his
> guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries
the process
> continued, but without the jury."
>
> As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of
us have a
> real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied
with family
> matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to
countries in
> the real world.
>
> The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational
law when
> it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as
well. For
> example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be
tried twice
> for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who
has taken
> Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This
case would
> have been thrown out before it even began.
>
> >a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established
procedures
> >is a bad citizen.
>
> I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare--
before the
> trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are
pre-judging him
> based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for
court the last
> time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for
10 years.
> This is bias before the trial even starts.
>
> >In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing
to go to
> >the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
> In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court
case
> where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before
the trial
> even starts.
>
> And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this
case-- since
> our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be
declared and
> the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above
(the full
> text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has
been
> appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Diana Octavia Aventina
> _____________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
> To: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com ; Stephen Gallagher ;
Marcus Horatius
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
> Subject: [Novaromatribunalis] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI:
DILATIO
>
> Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes
civibus Novae
> Romae S·P·D·
>
> Ex officio Praetoris
>
> Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor
and go to
> court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the
process had
> begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their
presence.
>
> At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.
>
> L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis
with his
> usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a
person's
> identity.
>
> Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with
established
> rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.
>
> But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:
>
> He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution
to achieve
> his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
> reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and
cooperation
> embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"
>
> In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to
go to
> the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
>
> Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf
to the
> cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but
what can I
> do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He
is not a
> child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
> person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the
responsibilities
> of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of
Directors of Nova
> Roma Inc.
>
> L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the
Constitution to
> achieve his desired ends.
>
> He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and
then say,
> "I am just a victim".
>
> Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good
person, a good
> father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L.
Equitius so I
> am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good
father or
> a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who
makes deaf
> ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.
>
> L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on
the list of
> NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he
did not
> come.
>
> And I repeat the question:What should I do now?
>
> His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says
that there
> are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.
>
> I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a
person is
> not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically
convicted
> because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to
defend
> itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the
jury.
>
> In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
> ito...........com peroranto ambo
praesentes.................prasenti litem
> addicito............." (if one is called to go in the court he
must go, to
> speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not
appear
> the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).
>
> In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
> "If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the
Praetor, the
> Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.
>
> a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the
Praetor,
> this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she
loses the
> right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in
perpetuity, and
> will face charges for contempt.
>
> b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she
automatically loses
> the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is
nollo
> contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because
he has
> acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.
>
> c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a
guarantor or
> vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor
or Reus, is
> justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if
his
> sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by
Praetor."
>
> In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.
>
> Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has
emerged
> as a guarantor of L. Equitius.
>
> And I repeat the question:What should I do now?
>
> I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
> I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
> I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and
exatio.
>
> It's probably what I should do.
>
> I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters
and friends.
> L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal
basis, but
> which must be studied.
>
> But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.
>
> I defer the trial until next March 9.
>
> During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of
L. Equitius
> and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.
>
> Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M.
Moravius
> and T. Iulius
>
> --
> M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55787 From: Maior Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Salve Artori;

the praetor who is trying the case M. Curiatius Complutensis, has a
law degree and studied Roman law, he also has the help of A.
Apollonius Cordus, who has a classics and law degree, and yes I
wrote to Cordus about the trial and he's thinking about various ways
of having a course or handbook to help praetors in the future.

So if you are conversant in Roman law, please contribute. And it is
nice to see the Flamen to Volturnus here, I'm very interested in
Roman nympha and river cults, Juturna, Fons, Furrina, Tiberinus, can
you share anything about Volturnus?
bene vale
M. Hortensia Maior

sacerdos Mentis
Producer'Vox Romana'podcast
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
listen to Meredith Bragg sing about Vesuvius!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 55788 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-03-04
Subject: Re: Declare a mistrial please
Salve Tiberia,

The tribunalis list is set up so that nobody but those people
designated by the moderators can post. The default there is "read
only."

Iudices should be set to "read and post" status. Drop me a note
off-list from whatever address you're using there and I'll get your
status updated.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:

> ---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:
>
> I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
> aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.
>
> I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.
>
> And it never arrived. Am I moderated? Are all members moderated?
> Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.