Salve Tiberia,

The tribunalis list is set up so that nobody but those people
designated by the moderators can post. The default there is "read
only."

Iudices should be set to "read and post" status. Drop me a note
off-list from whatever address you're using there and I'll get your
status updated.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:

> ---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:
>
> I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
> aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.
>
> I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.
>
> And it never arrived. Am I moderated? Are all members moderated?
> Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.

Neptunus, from Etruscan Nepthuns, god of the sea , lakes and running
water. He is an ancient and important diety but never received a
temple within the Pomerium or a flamen. He was worshipped in inland
Italy especially during the Neptunalia, by farmers to keep the
rivers from running dry.
As early as 206 B.C.E there was a temple
to Neptune in the Circus Flaminius. It is believed to have been
rebuilt and lavishly decorated after a naval victory by Gn. Domitius
Ahenobarbus before 32 B.C.E.After the great naval victory of Actium,
G. Vipasanius Agrippa built a temple to Neptune 25 B.C.E in the
Campus Martius.


Ritual for Neptunus
SALUTATIO
Avete Neptune Supremi Dique Imortales! Quin agete ipsos et libens
propriorum certaminis vos dignare manu indulgete sacris.

"Hail Neptunus and all You immortal Gods above! Why not arouse
Yourselves and graciously attend the ceremonies that we hold in Your
honor with Your divine presence."

INVOCATIO
Iustitiae rectique dator, qui cuncta gubernas, audi, Neptune, audite
Di Deaeque Parenti, qui hanc urbem, hoc sacratos locosque colitis,
audite. Di Parenti, vos hoc turem obmoveo bonas preces precor, ut
sistis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque
nostris.

"O Giver of Justice and Rectitude, You who steers the course of the
lingering stars of destiny, hear me, Neptunus. Listen. Gods and
Goddesses of our ancestors, You who cherish this City and these
sacred groves, listen. Gods of our forefathers, I make this offering
of incense to You and pray with good prayers that You will look
kindly and favorably upon us and our children, on our houses and on
our households."

SACRIFICATIO
Neptuni disque ago gratias merito magnas. Serva, Neptune, nos mihi
per tuom te genium obsecro, exi, te volumus.

"To Neptunus and the Gods deservedly I give thanks. Neptunus, look
down and preserve us, I do beseech you by your good genius. Come
forth! We wish for You."

Neptune, pii castique ad te hoc die cordibus apertis venimus. Hisce
safriciis te colere volumus. Exaudi nos, O Neptune, et hoc die
praesentia tua nos digneris! Sicut antea toties fecisti, et nunc
haec sacrificia accipe, civitatemque nostram benedic! Ante Iovem
generatus, decus divumque hominymque, / qua sine non tellus pacem,
non aequora norunt, / Iustitiae consors tacitumque in pectore numen
Accipe libamina nostra, et mitte nobis voluntatem beingnam tuam!
Dona nobis concordiam et abundantiam vitae!

"Neptunus, we come before You this day with open hearts, pure and
chaste. By these offerings we seek to honor You. Hear us, O
Neptunus, and may You honor us this day with your presence. As You
have so often before, so now accept these offerings and bless our
civitas. God more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of Gods and
men, without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas,
brother of Justice, Neptune, silent divinity within the hearts of
men and women. Accept our libations and send upon us Your kind
thoughts. May You grant Nova Roma concord and a richness of life!"
Laurel, incense, cakes of cheese drizzled with honey, and libations
of milk are offered each in turn.

Neptune, te hoc turem obmoveimus bonas preces precamur, ut sis
volens propitius nos liberisque noster domo familiaeque noster.
"Neptune, to You we make this offering of incense and pray that You
will look kindly and favorably upon us, upon our children, on our
homes and our households."

Neptune, macte istic libatione pollicenda esto, macte lactem esto.
In te, Pater carissime, in tua sumus custodia

"Neptunus, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be
honored by this milk. In You, dearest Father, in Your hands do we
place our safekeeping."

LITATIO
The Praeses offers incense on the altar once more. Then he turns,
steps away from the altar, and the Praeses dismisses the Gods by
saying the formula:

Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.
"No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough."

PERLITATIO
The Praeses, turning to those present, says:
Ilicet. Di deaeque omnes, superi atque inferi, vos semper ament et
felicitam volunt.

"Thus it is done. May all the Gods above and below always love you
and wish you happiness in all that is good."
They respond:
Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.
"May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it is pious."

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana omnibus civibus SPD.

I am afraid I have very little good to say about Takeshi Kitano.
Because I hold a 4th degree belt in classical Japanese Iaido (earned
in Japan), I dare to think I may be allowed to differ.

I did, however, find all the work done in the Last Samurai very,
very impressive. I had the privilege of spending the night on
ShoSha-Zan (where most of that movie was filmed) and visiting the
temples in the morning mist for the first worship services of the day.
I especially appreciated the respect with which the period culture of
Japan was treated--no blind hero-worship on the part of the producers,
just a thorough, honorable treatment of a way of life now gone.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@>
> wrote:
<snip>
> > For a very different kind of swordsmanship, the 1973 version of _The
> > Three Musketeers_ with Michael York as D'Artagnan is superb. The
> > opening scene alone was worth the price of admission.

GAFS: My personal favorite, and it includes two-weapon scenes, which
are rare. Another I really enjoyed was D'Artagnan's Daughter.

> I'm not sure how realistic it is but the swordfight somewhere in the
> middle of The Princess Bride (character climbs up a cliff on a rope,
> fights someone at the top_ also falls into that category.
>
GAFS: PRINCESS BRIDE was in fact recommended to our local fencing
club by Jerzy Kajrenius, Canada's Olympic fencing coach at the time,
as being one of the best film representations of fencing. He also
highly rated the fencing scenes in the 007 flick, Die Another Day (the
one with Madonna).

<snip>

Valete bene in pace Deorum
Silvana

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus"
<iustinus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Diana Octavia,

>
>
> For interested lay people, I recommend the Wikipedia articles on
> "Double Jeopordy," "Res Judicata" and "Collateral Estoppel." I hope
> our Nova Roman officials will do some research.
>
> Vale,
> Iustinus

Salve C. Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus
I posted this kind of info on Double Jeopordy and all days ago .but as
I am not a lawyer and one of the praetor are they said say no you are
not right we can use any old law we want from outside of NR when it is
good for us and no-one other then us can say what laws are used.
the way the court is beening run here in NR is very ungood.
Vale ( not that this post will ever see the light of day)
Marcus Cornlius Felix

Salve Maior,

Good to know that we're so well tended. If it's not legal education
that's lacking, perhaps the problem is that there has been scant
exploration of the tension among ancient Roman law, modern theories of
jurisprudence, and modern international law. Or, perhaps part of the
problem is that our Nova Roman legal code is a simplified restatement
of Anglo-American law with a veneer of ancient Roman procedure.
Certainly the bits I'm seeing on the Main List do no credit to our
Republic and its officials.

Roman law is an interest of mine, and I would enjoy the opportunity to
chat with our experts, but I know how time-consuming Nova Roma can
become. With both my day job, owning a bookstore and various other
commitments, I already work like a Trojan. There is no chance I could
do justice to another project.

Would love to chat about river cults sometime. Perhaps after the
current civil crisis and before the next one. In the meantime, look
for an article about Volturnus on the NR wiki within the next week or
two.

Vale,
Iustinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Artori;
>
> the praetor who is trying the case M. Curiatius Complutensis, has a
> law degree and studied Roman law, he also has the help of A.
> Apollonius Cordus, who has a classics and law degree, and yes I
> wrote to Cordus about the trial and he's thinking about various ways
> of having a course or handbook to help praetors in the future.
>
> So if you are conversant in Roman law, please contribute. And it is
> nice to see the Flamen to Volturnus here, I'm very interested in
> Roman nympha and river cults, Juturna, Fons, Furrina, Tiberinus, can
> you share anything about Volturnus?
> bene vale
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> sacerdos Mentis
> Producer'Vox Romana'podcast
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Vox_Romana
> listen to Meredith Bragg sing about Vesuvius!
>

Salve Felix,

Yes, I saw your message and thought it was very helpful. When Diana
Octavia Aventina made the same argument, I thought it would be
worthwhile to add my opinion. I can guess the arguments of the
praetor, but email is a difficult medium for discussing complex subjects.

It seems to me that our magistrates are making vital reforms, but not
very skillfully. Our Roman system gives them only a year to make their
mark, so it is hard if they don't come to the job with the
statesmanship of someone like Equitius Marinus.

Vale,
Iustinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "vallenporter" <magewuffa@...> wrote:
>
> Salve C. Ambrosius Artorus Iustinus
> I posted this kind of info on Double Jeopordy and all days ago .but as
> I am not a lawyer and one of the praetor are they said say no you are
> not right we can use any old law we want from outside of NR when it is
> good for us and no-one other then us can say what laws are used.
> the way the court is beening run here in NR is very ungood.
> Vale ( not that this post will ever see the light of day)
> Marcus Cornlius Felix
>

Salve Amice!

My warm Congatulations my dear friend!

My daughter had her 25th birthday in January and as she move up back
north again I see her at nearly every Saturday at least. There is a
huge difference between a distance of 800 km and 40 km, now we may
meet every day if we want. ;-) On Saturdays she teach her old dad
Western riding and after 48 years I try to adapt from my "cavalry"
education.

My daughter is teaching me - yes, they grow and new relations will emerge. ;-)

I wish your sons a fantastic future, as well as yourself and your wife!

>Salvete cives,
>
>Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius, AKA
>Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.
>
>Valete,
>
>Palladius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae

 A. Tullia Scholastica C. Ambrosio Artoro Iustino quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Salve Diana Octavia,

Ancient Rome had something Nova Roma does not have -- people trained
in the law.

    ATS:  You are very wrong.  We have several lawyers among us, as well as people from all walks of life.  Offhand, A. Apollonius Cordus, Domitius Constantinus Fuscus, C. Curiatius Complutensis, M. Hortensia Maior, P. Memmius Albucius (and if he is still a citizen, Papinianus) are all attorneys.  Thus we have one from Britain, one from Italy, one from Spain, one from the US who practiced in Ireland, one from France, and possibly one from Germany.  Not bad, if you ask me.  Moreover, we have a number of classicists here, most of whom happen to be very logical people, and whose undergraduate alumni often go to law school rather than graduate school in the classics because it is quicker, easier, and more remunerative.  


 It is indeed distressing to watch the magistrates of Nova
Roma scramble to understand and apply basic legal precepts. The one
person in this controversy known to me to be a lawyer has chosen to
use her skills for advocacy rather than to help the Republic.

    ATS:  As many of us here are well aware, MHM has a grudge against the reus, who almost certainly was among those in the CP who labeled her as nefas a few years ago.  Moreover, she is the protegee of the actor in the first lawsuit.  As far as the magistrates are concerned, we do our best to follow OUR laws, not those of assorted macronations.

I think you might enjoy reading the European Convention on Human
Rights, which says, in relevant part, "No one shall be liable to be
tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction
of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally
acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure
of that State." [Seventh Protocol, Article Four]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (United Nations, 1948) is
also interesting. "Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and
public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the
determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge
against him." [Article 10]. And, "No one shall be held guilty of any
penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not
constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at
the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed
than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was
committed." [Article 11(2)]

    ATS:  We have been trying to convince the actores that barring senatores from a list before that was required is not a crime.  We do have an ex post facto law.

For interested lay people, I recommend the Wikipedia articles on
"Double Jeopordy," "Res Judicata" and "Collateral Estoppel." I hope
our Nova Roman officials will do some research.

    ATS:  Our magistrates do research in our Tabularium, which is our law library.  Those are the laws which govern us, not those of macronations.  We do not resort to macronational law when our own laws suffice; if a truly macronational issue is at stake, we are supposed to contact the relevant authorities.  In fact, I believe that this has been done on at least one occasion, possibly more than one.  In most cases, we consult the judicial laws, the leges Saliciae, which are well written, but need a little tune-up on such matters as failure to appear in court and in the writing of the formula, as well as time limits for certain portions of the judicial process.

    As others and I have noted, there are a great many issues involved in these cases, not all of which are visible on the surface or to those who are new to Nova Roma and who consequently do not know what is going on behind the scenes.  If you thought that M. Hortensia was the only lawyer in NR, you must be very new; she may be the only female attorney (and moreover is a graduate student in another field at present), but she is a long remove from the only one.  
    



Vale,
Iustinus


Vale, et valete.




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Diana Octavia Aventina" <diana@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,
>
> NR ML in cc.
>
> First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during
the last
> weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
> situation.
>
> It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
> macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
> stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
> absentia and automatically convicted because  not appearing he
admits his
> guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the
process
> continued, but without the jury."
>
> As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of
us have a
> real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with
family
> matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to
countries in
> the real world.
>
> The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational
law when
> it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as
well. For
> example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried
twice
> for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has
taken
> Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This
case would
> have been thrown out before it even began.
>
> >a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established
procedures
> >is a bad citizen.
>
> I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare--
before the
> trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen.  You are
pre-judging him
> based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court
the last
> time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for
10 years.
> This is bias before the trial even starts.
>
> >In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt  for refusing to
go to
> >the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
> In  macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court
case
> where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the
trial
> even starts.
>
> And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this
case-- since
> our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be
declared and
> the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above
(the full
> text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
> appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Diana Octavia Aventina

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55760;

A. Tullia Scholastica Decio Iunio Palladio quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Salvete cives,

Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius, AKA
Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.

    ATS:  And a very happy birthday to Palladius Minor!  Kindergarten beckons, but he has a few months of freedom yet...perhaps over a year.  By then he should be reading tales of Roman deeds and deities...

Valete,

Palladius

Vale, et valete.

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55782;

 A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Equitio Marino Pompeiae Minuciae Straboni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


Salve Tiberia,

The tribunalis list is set up so that nobody but those people  
designated by the moderators can post.  The default there is "read  
only."

    ATS:  And I would point out that this is not the doing of the present praetores; it is the way the list has always been.  This is not a discussion group on Roman law, but a trial record, in which only the participants in the actions at law may speak.  In addition, the archives (such as they are after they were illegally and surreptitiously deleted) are available only to the moderatores.


Iudices should be set to "read and post" status.  Drop me a note  
off-list from whatever address you're using there and I'll get your  
status updated.

    ATS:  If I am not mistaken, iudices were not allowed to post, either...just the actor, reus, advocatus and magistrates...

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


Vale, et valete.


pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@... <mailto:pompeia_minucia_tiberia%40yahoo.com> > writes:

> ---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:
>
> I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
> aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.
>
> I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.
>
> And it never arrived.  Am I moderated?  Are all members moderated?
> Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.

      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55760;

----- Original Message -----

From: M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please

Salve Aventina

 

If I were a person unjustly, today I would have applied my own edicts, but I have heard the voices of supporters and friends of L.Equitius, I listened to his lawyer and I am thinking about what is more convenient done.

The same laws of Nova Roma allow me to issue a sentence without hearing the iudices, as is written in an edict.

L. Equitius is guilty of contempt for the second time in less than a month, he is guilty of contempt of his peers and those who believe in Nova Roma as a joint project.

It's my right to speak in a trial and you are wrong to interpret my words, my whole speech is nothing more than the argument of a sentence: L. Equitius is guilty of contempt, aggravated, premeditated, with treachery and recidivist

Now I can only ponder two things:

1. The amount of fine (between 15 to 350 USD) to be paid by L. Equitius
2. If I am consistent with the law (that I have issued) and adjudge the case to the only present part or if I give to Galerius Paulinus the opportunity to try to prove the innocence of a person who is too proud to present himself to a trial before their peers, of a person who decided to hide himself somewhere,  waiting for their friends and supporters him out of troubles.

 

None of this would have happened if any of his friends or supporters had been offered as a guarantor of Cincinnatus, but nobody has dared to ensure that Cincinnatus accepts an someday to stand trial.

 

L.Equitius knew the consequences of his premeditated decision not to respond to the call of the Praetor, his advocatus, his friends and his followers also knew these consequences. His lawyer and I have sought to communicate with him, his lawyer has been unable to contact him and he has not responded to my messages.

 

And finally the iudices: Do you really think that people that the Goddess Fortuna has chosen as a iudices have so little personality to be influenced by my comments?

 

IF you really think so, then you have a poor opinion about our fellow citizens.

 

From this moment I will not further comment on the trial until it is restarted. I am going to take advantage of this postponement to meditate properly decisions that I should take.

 

Cura ut valeas

 

M. Curiatius Complutensis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Diana Octavia Aventina

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; Novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:50 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please

Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,

NR ML in cc.

First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during the last
weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
situation.

It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he admits his
guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the process
continued, but without the jury."

As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of us have a
real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with family
matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to countries in
the real world.

The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational law when
it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as well. For
example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried twice
for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has taken
Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This case would
have been thrown out before it even began.

>a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established procedures
>is a bad citizen.

I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare-- before the
trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are pre-judging him
based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court the last
time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for 10 years.
This is bias before the trial even starts.

>In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
>the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.
In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court case
where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the trial
even starts.

And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this case-- since
our NR laws do not cover everything-- - a mistrial needs to be declared and
the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above (the full
text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.

Thanks for your time,
Diana Octavia Aventina
____________ _

----- Original Message -----
From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
To: novaromatribunalis@ yahoogroups. com ; Stephen Gallagher ; Marcus Horatius
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
Subject: [Novaromatribunalis ] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: DILATIO

Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes civibus Novae
Romae S·P·D·

Ex officio Praetoris

Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor and go to
court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the process had
begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their presence.

At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.

L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis with his
usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a person's
identity.

Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with established
rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.

But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:

He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve
his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and cooperation
embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"

In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.

Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf to the
cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but what can I
do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He is not a
child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the responsibilities
of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of Directors of Nova
Roma Inc.

L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the Constitution to
achieve his desired ends.

He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and then say,
"I am just a victim".

Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good person, a good
father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L. Equitius so I
am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good father or
a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who makes deaf
ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.

L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on the list of
NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he did not
come.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says that there
are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.

I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a person is
not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically convicted
because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to defend
itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the jury.

In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
ito......... ..com peroranto ambo praesentes.. ......... ......prasenti litem
addicito.... ......... " (if one is called to go in the court he must go, to
speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not appear
the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).

In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
"If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the
Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor,
this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the
right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and
will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses
the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo
contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has
acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or
vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor or Reus, is
justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his
sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor."

In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.

Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has emerged
as a guarantor of L. Equitius.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and exatio.

It's probably what I should do.

I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters and friends.
L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal basis, but
which must be studied.

But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.

I defer the trial until next March 9.

During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of L. Equitius
and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.

Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M. Moravius
and T. Iulius

--
M.CVRIATIVS. COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

Salve Palladius,

> Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius, AKA
> Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.

You forgot to mention that I was the first to know that your wife was
pregnant. My response was 'Is it mine?' :-) (ok stupid joke :-p
Give Palladius Junior a kiss for me! Those were happier days-- all of us
just back from a really fun Roman Days!

Vale,
Diana

Salve Pompeia,

I also posted to the Tribunal list thinking that it was ok while court was
adjourned. It was also rejected. I looked in the archives and all observers
are moderated.However I didn't see anywhere mentioned that posts would be
outright rejected when court was not in session.

Vale,
Diana

----- Original Message -----
From: "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:23 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Declare a mistrial please


---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:

I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.

I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.

And it never arrived. Am I moderated? Are all members moderated?
Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.



Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
<complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Aventina
>
> If I were a person unjustly, today I would have applied my own
edicts, but I have heard the voices of supporters and friends of
L.Equitius, I listened to his lawyer and I am thinking about what is
more convenient done.
>
> The same laws of Nova Roma allow me to issue a sentence without
hearing the iudices, as is written in an edict.
>
> L. Equitius is guilty of contempt for the second time in less than a
month, he is guilty of contempt of his peers and those who believe in
Nova Roma as a joint project.
>
>
> It's my right to speak in a trial and you are wrong to interpret my
words, my whole speech is nothing more than the argument of a
sentence: L. Equitius is guilty of contempt, aggravated, premeditated,
with treachery and recidivist
>
>
> Now I can only ponder two things:
>
> 1. The amount of fine (between 15 to 350 USD) to be paid by L. Equitius
> 2. If I am consistent with the law (that I have issued) and adjudge
the case to the only present part or if I give to Galerius Paulinus
the opportunity to try to prove the innocence of a person who is too
proud to present himself to a trial before their peers, of a person
who decided to hide himself somewhere, waiting for their friends and
supporters him out of troubles.
>
>
>
> None of this would have happened if any of his friends or supporters
had been offered as a guarantor of Cincinnatus, but nobody has dared
to ensure that Cincinnatus accepts an someday to stand trial.
>
>
>
> L.Equitius knew the consequences of his premeditated decision not to
respond to the call of the Praetor, his advocatus, his friends and his
followers also knew these consequences. His lawyer and I have sought
to communicate with him, his lawyer has been unable to contact him and
he has not responded to my messages.
>
>
>
> And finally the iudices: Do you really think that people that the
Goddess Fortuna has chosen as a iudices have so little personality to
be influenced by my comments?
>
>
>
> IF you really think so, then you have a poor opinion about our
fellow citizens.
>
>
>
> From this moment I will not further comment on the trial until it is
restarted. I am going to take advantage of this postponement to
meditate properly decisions that I should take.
>
>
>
> Cura ut valeas
>
>
>
> M. Curiatius Complutensis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Octavia Aventina
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; Novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:50 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please
>
>
> Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,
>
> NR ML in cc.
>
> First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during
the last
> weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an
unpleasant
> situation.
>
> It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
> macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many
countries
> stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is
declared in
> absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he
admits his
> guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries
the process
> continued, but without the jury."
>
> As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of
us have a
> real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied
with family
> matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to
countries in
> the real world.
>
> The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational
law when
> it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as
well. For
> example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be
tried twice
> for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who
has taken
> Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This
case would
> have been thrown out before it even began.
>
> >a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established
procedures
> >is a bad citizen.
>
> I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare--
before the
> trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are
pre-judging him
> based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for
court the last
> time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for
10 years.
> This is bias before the trial even starts.
>
> >In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing
to go to
> >the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
> In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court
case
> where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before
the trial
> even starts.
>
> And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this
case-- since
> our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be
declared and
> the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above
(the full
> text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has
been
> appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Diana Octavia Aventina
> _____________
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
> To: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com ; Stephen Gallagher ;
Marcus Horatius
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
> Subject: [Novaromatribunalis] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI:
DILATIO
>
> Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes
civibus Novae
> Romae S·P·D·
>
> Ex officio Praetoris
>
> Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor
and go to
> court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the
process had
> begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their
presence.
>
> At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.
>
> L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis
with his
> usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a
person's
> identity.
>
> Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with
established
> rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.
>
> But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:
>
> He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution
to achieve
> his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
> reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and
cooperation
> embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"
>
> In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to
go to
> the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo
contendere.
>
> Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf
to the
> cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but
what can I
> do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He
is not a
> child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
> person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the
responsibilities
> of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of
Directors of Nova
> Roma Inc.
>
> L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the
Constitution to
> achieve his desired ends.
>
> He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and
then say,
> "I am just a victim".
>
> Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good
person, a good
> father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L.
Equitius so I
> am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good
father or
> a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who
makes deaf
> ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.
>
> L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on
the list of
> NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he
did not
> come.
>
> And I repeat the question:What should I do now?
>
> His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says
that there
> are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.
>
> I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a
person is
> not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically
convicted
> because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to
defend
> itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the
jury.
>
> In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
> ito...........com peroranto ambo
praesentes.................prasenti litem
> addicito............." (if one is called to go in the court he
must go, to
> speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not
appear
> the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).
>
> In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
> "If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the
Praetor, the
> Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.
>
> a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the
Praetor,
> this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she
loses the
> right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in
perpetuity, and
> will face charges for contempt.
>
> b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she
automatically loses
> the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is
nollo
> contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because
he has
> acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.
>
> c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a
guarantor or
> vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor
or Reus, is
> justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if
his
> sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by
Praetor."
>
> In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.
>
> Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has
emerged
> as a guarantor of L. Equitius.
>
> And I repeat the question:What should I do now?
>
> I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
> I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
> I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and
exatio.
>
> It's probably what I should do.
>
> I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters
and friends.
> L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal
basis, but
> which must be studied.
>
> But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.
>
> I defer the trial until next March 9.
>
> During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of
L. Equitius
> and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.
>
> Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M.
Moravius
> and T. Iulius
>
> --
> M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
> PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
> Senator
> Prætor Hispaniæ
> Scriba Censoris KFBM
> NOVA ROMA
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos salvam et servatam volunt.

Hodie est ante diem III Nonas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:
Isidis Navigium

"Isis, once stalled in Phoroneus' caves, now queen of Pharos and a
deity of the breathless East, welcome with the sound of many sistrums
the Mareotic bark, and gently with your own hand lead the peerless
youth." ~ Statius, Silvae III.2.101-4


"O Isis, who dwells in Paraetonium and the genial fields of Canopus,
in Memphis and palm-rich Pharos, and where the broad Nile swiftly
disgorges into the salty sea through seven mouths, may Osiris always
love your pious rites, may the serpent ever glide slowly nearby to
bless Your altar gifts, and the horned Apis ever walk beside You in
procession. Come hither, by a mere expression of Your eyes summon,
and in one motion save us both, for You will grant life to my lady,
and she to me. Often has she seated herself to worship You on the
appointed days and had the eunuch priests purify her Nile waters
dripping from boughs of laurel." ~ Ovidius Naso, Amores 2.13.7-18


"Help me now, Isis! Give succor to me beneath your breast. I've
seen, drawn on the walls of your temple, the many pictures of your
worshippers who have received your aid." ~ Albius Tibullus 1.3.27-28


The Navigium Isidis

The opening of the sailing season began with the Navigium Isidis.
The festival recalls how Isis had set off in search of Her murdered
husband Osiris. Flower wreaths were thrown on the water as an image
of Isis was brought down to the sea, as a blessing of boats and
sailors, just as today in Italy images of the Virgin Maria are
brought from her temples down into boats, with garlands tossed into
the Mediterranean at the beginning of sailing season. The ancient
celebration occasioned a procession described for us by Apuleius in
the Metamorphosis 11 and by Clement at Alexandria in 'Stromateis'
6.4.37.1.

The procession was led by mimes, pantomimes, and dancers as might be
expected in a pompa, but for this festival it seems that the
pantomimes satirized Greek myths. In Apuleius' account there was a
man dressed as woman, probably recalling when Hercules served the
Queen of the Amazons. Others were dressed in various professions as
hunters, fishermen, soldiers, fowlers, philosophers, magistrates, and
gladiators. They were not really part of the procession so much as
they were members of the crowd joining in the celebration as at
Carnival. Along with them others carried a bear, dressed as a
matron, in a litter; a monkey was dressed as Ganymede; Pegasus was
represented by a donkey fitted with false wings, beside whom walked
an aged Bellerophon. Tertullianus gives a list of popular mimes of
his day, which would seem related to the costumed revelers that
Apuleius tells us preceded his fictional procession of Isis. "Anubis
Adulterer, Mr. Moon, Diana Flogged, Jove's Last Testament, and as a
comedy, Three Hungry Hercules (Ad. Nat. 15)." Such descriptions do
not tell us anything about the Isiac cultus. Instead they represent
popular entertainments as might be seen in conjunction with any
festival. Even Tertullianus' mention of a skit portraying Anubis
does not relate specifically to a Isiac festival but might be
presented at the festival of any deity.

The procession proper followed with maidens dressed in white, crowned
with flowers, "moved with symbolic gestures of delight," some strew
flowers from their aprons, others, carrying mirrors and combs,
mimicked dressing Isis' hair, and still others sprinkled the streets
with perfumes. Then hosts of men and women followed in groups, those
of each group carrying lanterns, or torches, candles, or lamps "in
honor of Her who was begotten of the Stars of Heaven." Musicians and
choirs followed. Heralds called out, "Make way for the Goddess!"
These in turn were followed by those newly initiated into the
Mysteries of Isis. All were dressed in white and each bore sistra of
bronze, gold, or silver; the women with their hair loosened down,
anointed, and covered in silk hoods, the men with the bare heads
clean shaven in the fashion of Egyptian priests.

The ministers followed next, each carrying a symbolic attribute.
First came the Lychnophoros, who held a golden lamp made in the shape
of a boat. This lamp he held high to represent Serapis-Helios.
Second came the Cantor, a priest bearing in his hands models of
altars and who recited the first two books of Thoth concerning the
hymns to the Gods and Goddesses and the rules of the Royal Life.
Third then was the Astrologer holding a golden palm leaf, an
hourglass, and caduceus, reciting the next four books of Thoth that
dealt with the fixed stars, the movement of the planets, conjunctions
of the sun and moon, and finally one on the risings of the sun and
moon. Fourth came the Stolist bearing the Hand of Justice and a small
golden bowl shaped like a breast from which he poured libations of
milk. The Scribe, found in Clement's description but not with
Apuleius, wore plumes, carried a ruler across a book along with a
palette, ink and reed. He recited the books on hieroglyphs,
cosmology, geography, course of the sun and moon, phases of the
planets, charts of the Nile River and on sacred measurements. A
fifth priest held a golden winnowing fan, representing the basket in
which Isis placed the mutilated limbs of Osiris. This priest
probably rectired the six remaining books of Thoth on the structure
of the body, its diseases, and remedies. Lastly came a priest
bearing the amphora, or the hydria of the Prophet.

Images of the Egyptian Gods, or men dressed in masks, came next,
representing Anubis, Hathor, a cistophorus carrying a basket or
chest "that contained the Secret Things of Her unutterable
Mysteries," and then the one who bore "a symbol inexpressible of the
true religion that should be veiled in Deep Silence." This
representation of Isis Apuleius described as a golden urn with
rounded bottom, having a spout on one side, a handle on the other
crested by the asp. The empty vessel, or the vessel from which
sprout flowers, has long been the symbol of Goddesses, such as Juno,
and is still seen in the symbolism of Christian art. Bringing up the
rear, just as in Catholic ritual, was the high priest of Isis who,
according to Apuleius, bore a sistrum and a crown of roses.

The procession came down to the docks, where a brand-new boat
waited. The high priest purified the boat with sulfur, a torch, and
an egg, while reciting solemn prayers. Its keel was made of citron
wood, its prow, curved in the form of a goose-neck was covered in
gold plates, its mat was made of a tall pine, on which white silk
sails were embroidered in gold thread with hymns in praise of Isis.
The boat was laden with offerings, fuming incense, libations of milk,
cinnamon, myrrh, cassia, and other herbs and spices of the orient.
The mooring ropes were then cut, the boat sent off adrift, the crowds
sending offerings of flowers after it, "winnowing fans piled with
aromatic scents and other such offerings, and threw libations of milk
mixed with crumbs of bread into the sea, until the ship, cargoed with
plentiful gifts and auspicious devotions, Â… sailed out of sight into
the distance of her course."

Returning then to the temple, the high priest and his servers
replaced all of the sacred articles to their places. The Scribe, or
Hierogrammatos, crowned by two plumes, called the pastophori to him
and read from a sacred book the vows annually made to Isis on behalf
of the Emperor, the Senate, the Equestrians and Roman people, "and
sailors and ships which come under the jurisdiction of Rome." Then,
in Greek, rather than Egyptian, as the cultus of Isis and Serapis was
Greek, the Scribe announced the opening of the sailing season
(Ploiaphesia) with the words "Laois aphesis." He turned, climbing
the steps to the sanctuary where he adorned the silver image of Isis
with flowers and green fronds, and kissed Her feet before dismissing
the gathered multitude. These returned to their homes carrying
boughs of olive leaves and other wreaths, crowned in garlands of
flowers, and as they filed pass, they too would kiss the feet of the
silver image of Isis.


Today's thought is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 8.32

"You must compose your life act by every single act; and be satisfied
if every action does its duty, achieves its own end, as far as is
possible; and no one can prevent thee from that achievement. "But
something external will stand in the way." Nothing will stand in the
way of thy acting justly and soberly and considerately. "But perhaps
some other active power will be hindered." Well, gladly accept the
obstruction as it is, by acquiescing in the hindrance and by being
content to a judicious transfer of thy efforts to that which is
allowed, another opportunity of action is immediately put before thee
in place of that which was hindered, and one which will adapt itself
to the composition of your life as discussed."

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: L. Vitellius Triarius

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:08 AM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Who is your Roman God? Quiz

Salvete,

Check out this quiz on the HBO Rome site to see who your Roman God or
Goddess is:

http://www.hboasia. com/rome/ quiz/index. html

Valete optime,
Triarius

---Salve:

It's fine, never mind on my account.

I have asked to be excused from my position of iudex, as my note
indicated.

Pompeia


Pompeia



In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Tiberia,
>
> The tribunalis list is set up so that nobody but those people
> designated by the moderators can post. The default there is "read
> only."
>
> Iudices should be set to "read and post" status. Drop me a note
> off-list from whatever address you're using there and I'll get your
> status updated.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:
>
> > ---Salve Complutensis Praetor, Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > I sent you a note of clarification to the Tribunalis list regarding an
> > aspect of your statement in court today, plus another request.
> >
> > I thought it was ok to do this as we are adjourned.
> >
> > And it never arrived. Am I moderated? Are all members moderated?
> > Just wondering as I am currently an iudex.
>

Salve Scholastica, and thank you for your very thorough response.
There are, as you say, many issues involved in the current case, which
makes it difficult to parse them through email.

I don't disagree that Nova Roma is and should be governed by its own
laws rather than by macronational law. But, we do not have a body of
jurisprudence or lawyers trained in that jurisprudence. Principles
such as double jeopardy, res judicata, and ex post facto crimes
ordinarily involve some very interesting hair-splitting in
macronational law. Nova Roma hasn't developed a body of law around
those sub-issues; it has only the few simple code provisions. So, it
isn't clear whether or how those principles apply here. Where the law
is unclear, we can look to international law, as would a macronational
court.

I understand that the current case involves some strong personalities,
many of whom have difficult relationships. I've been a citizen of Nova
Roma only since 2003, but I've had a chance to interact with many of
the principals at one time or another. I was in the CP, as a nonvoting
flamen, when Maior had her problems. And, I apologize to you if my
message was unclear. I know that we have several lawyers (including
me). As I said, Maior is "[t]he one person in this controversy known
to me to be a lawyer".

The current case is very interesting. From what I read here, I don't
think it has any merit if the only question is the legal principles
involved. I reserve judgment about who hurt whose feelings at some
time in the distant past.

Vale,
Iustinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Ambrosio Artoro Iustino quiritibus bonae

voluntatis

> > S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Salve Diana Octavia,
> >
> > Ancient Rome had something Nova Roma does not have -- people trained
> > in the law.
> >
> > ATS: You are very wrong. We have several lawyers among us,

as well as

> > people from all walks of life. Offhand, A. Apollonius Cordus,

Domitius

> > Constantinus Fuscus, C. Curiatius Complutensis, M. Hortensia

Maior, P. Memmius

> > Albucius (and if he is still a citizen, Papinianus) are all

attorneys. Thus

> > we have one from Britain, one from Italy, one from Spain, one from

the US who

> > practiced in Ireland, one from France, and possibly one from

Germany. Not

> > bad, if you ask me. Moreover, we have a number of classicists

here, most of

> > whom happen to be very logical people, and whose undergraduate

alumni often go

> > to law school rather than graduate school in the classics because

it is

> > quicker, easier, and more remunerative.
> >
> >
> > It is indeed distressing to watch the magistrates of Nova
> > Roma scramble to understand and apply basic legal precepts. The one
> > person in this controversy known to me to be a lawyer has chosen to
> > use her skills for advocacy rather than to help the Republic.
> >
> > ATS: As many of us here are well aware, MHM has a grudge

against the

> > reus, who almost certainly was among those in the CP who labeled

her as nefas

> > a few years ago. Moreover, she is the protegee of the actor in

the first

> > lawsuit. As far as the magistrates are concerned, we do our best

to follow

> > OUR laws, not those of assorted macronations.
> >
> > I think you might enjoy reading the European Convention on Human
> > Rights, which says, in relevant part, "No one shall be liable to be
> > tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the jurisdiction
> > of the same State for an offence for which he has already been finally
> > acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal procedure
> > of that State." [Seventh Protocol, Article Four]
> >
> > The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (United Nations, 1948) is
> > also interesting. "Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and
> > public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the
> > determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge
> > against him." [Article 10]. And, "No one shall be held guilty of any
> > penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not
> > constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at
> > the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed
> > than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was
> > committed." [Article 11(2)]
> >
> > ATS: We have been trying to convince the actores that barring

senatores

> > from a list before that was required is not a crime. We do have

an ex post

> > facto law.
> >
> > For interested lay people, I recommend the Wikipedia articles on
> > "Double Jeopordy," "Res Judicata" and "Collateral Estoppel." I hope
> > our Nova Roman officials will do some research.
> >
> > ATS: Our magistrates do research in our Tabularium, which is

our law

> > library. Those are the laws which govern us, not those of

macronations. We

> > do not resort to macronational law when our own laws suffice; if a

truly

> > macronational issue is at stake, we are supposed to contact the

relevant

> > authorities. In fact, I believe that this has been done on at

least one

> > occasion, possibly more than one. In most cases, we consult the

judicial

> > laws, the leges Saliciae, which are well written, but need a

little tune-up on

> > such matters as failure to appear in court and in the writing of

the formula,

> > as well as time limits for certain portions of the judicial process.
> >
> > As others and I have noted, there are a great many issues

involved in

> > these cases, not all of which are visible on the surface or to

those who are

> > new to Nova Roma and who consequently do not know what is going on

behind the

> > scenes. If you thought that M. Hortensia was the only lawyer in

NR, you must

> > be very new; she may be the only female attorney (and moreover is

a graduate

> > student in another field at present), but she is a long remove

from the only

> > one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> > Iustinus
> >
> >
> > Vale, et valete.

A. Apollonius omnibus sal.


A couple of people have been kind enough to wonder where I have been and what I might have to say about the various bits of judicial business going on at the moment.

I have quite a number of things to say. I have not felt, however, that it would be proper for me to say them yet.

The reason was that, first, I was appointed a judex in one of the cases, and I did not think it proper for a judex to make public or even private comments on the judicial procedures being used in the case he was to judge.

I had intended to make some comments after my role in that case had come to an end, and accordingly asked M. Curiatius to tell me when I was formally released. He kindly did so, but it happened that on the same day I read that notification (which was several days after he had sent it, owing to my other commitments) I also received a request from to him to provide some procedural advice on the provocatio in the same case. I have been working on that advice for the last few days, and have provided it to him today.

Since I am now in the position of advising one of the participants in the judicial process, I once again feel that it would be improper for me to make public comments about that process. I would not even have thought it proper to make it generally known that I was providing that advice if it had not already been mentioned in this forum. So again I shall keep my counsel until I am no longer in any such position.

I would like to say specifically, lest any incorrect impression be made by my remarks or anyone else's, that I have been asked to advise solely on the procedures of the provocatio in the case originally brought by K. Buteo against L. Equitius. One or two people did ask for my opinion on aspects of the original trial, but I was unable to provide it owing to my involvement in the case as a judex. I have not been asked for any advice or opinion on the case brought by M. Moravius, and other than the matter I have mentioned I have not been asked for any advice or opinion on the provocatio.

My name was mentioned in connexion with L. Livia's comment that she had asked various people for their suggestions for a way to overhaul the current judicial system. I can say that L. Livia was kind enough to consult me on that matter, and I presume therefore that I am included in her statement, "the few people I consulted with were also unable to come up with a better proposal".

Some may feel that it is rather unhelpful and even un-Roman for me to keep so quiet for the reasons I have mentioned. I confess that I am erring very much on the side of caution. I suspect that a Roman of the old republic would not, in my position, have had quite the same scruples. But we are talking about processes that, however silly some people may think them, could in theory result in a citizen being asked to pay significant sums of money and even told to leave our community, and I do not want to risk making things worse by making careless comments.

One or two very generous and kindly-disposed people may even ask me why I have not offered my advice on these matters despite not being asked for it. I have found over the last few years that unsolicited legal advice is generally unwelcome in Nova Roma and, which is more important (for I would not mind being unpopular if I thought it would do any good), is generally ignored. So I try not to give it any longer.

Having said that, I am ready to offer my help to anyone who asks, provided I do not feel prevented from giving it as a result of my having already undertaken to assist someone else.



__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Inbox. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Salvete omnes

We have now arrived at the end of the third and final stage of the
Certamen, the final answers are in, and the final results are ready
to be announced.

We have seen a very high standard of answers from competitors who
included some very distinguished citizens, and some who competed for
the first time. My thanks to all of them for an enjoyable and closely
fought contest. There is scarcely a whisker between the leaders. I
know from your comments that you have all enjoyed the quest. I think
we have all refreshed our memories and learned something new about
our Republic. I hope those watching from the sidelines have also
enjoyed watching the contest.

So here are the answers to stage 3:-


17. Name the 3 orders into which citizens are classed.

Ordo patricius (Patrician), Ordo plebeius (Plebeian), Ordo equester
(Equestrian).


18. What is the minimum age, to the exact day, to become a full
citizen?

18 years plus the 90 day probationary period (tirocinium) before they
can vote or stand for public office as full citizens.

There are exceptions, particularly for those who start off as minor
citizens who may take the citizen exam up to 90 days before their
18th birthday.

CURRENT EVENTS

19. What is a provocatio?

The right of a citizen to appeal against a magisterial decision. Most
hearings would take place in the Comitia Populi Tributa. Where
lifetime exile is in question the provocatio takes place in the
Comitia Centuriata.

20. Before the current one, presented on Feb. 20th this year, how
many have there been, and who were the registering magistrates?

Only two have been started.

i. Cn-Equit-Marinus accepted the provocatio of L. Sicinius
Drusus, but no hearing was held because the issue was resolved.
ii. In 2758 Trib. P Memmius Albucius accepted a provocatio.from
T.Galerias Paulinus concerning submission of names for election in
2758.

MEETING UP.

21. Where and when was the fifth European Conventus Novae Romae held?

The V Conventus Novae Romae was held in Britannia, along Hadrian's
Wall, from 3 to 9 August 2006. Citizens from Britain, continental
Europe, and North America traveled the length of the wall.

22. Who was the Governor of the Province in which it was held that
year?
C Livia was the Governor of Britannia that year.

23. Two citizens travelled all the way from the USA to attend this
5th Conventus. Who were they?

M Octavius Gracchus (formerly Germanicus) and A Tullia Scholastica.

24. Where and when will the next European Conventus be held?

The next European Conventus will be held in Dacia from July 30th to
August 4th this year.

And the scores and final positions are:-

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana 55
M. Martianius Lupus 54
Cn-Equit Marinus 54
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 48
L.Fidelius Lusitanus 42
Pompeia_Minucia Tiberia 19

I therefore have great pleasure in declaring C. Aurelia Falco Silvana
the winner, by the closest of margins. Many congratulations to her
and to you all for an excellent and well-fought contest.

Valete optime

C. Marcius Crispus

M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---

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Salve Palladi,

Please tell him that our domus wishes him a very Happy Birthday!

Vale optime,

Triarius, Tiberia, Lucius, Quintus et Tiberia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete cives,
>
> Today is the birthday of my oldest son, Decius Iunius Palladius,
AKA
> Connor, a citizen for nearly four years.
>
> Valete,
>
> Palladius
>

M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Salvete omnes et quizzers!

Here is another Roman quiz:

Which Roman Emporer are you?

http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N

This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.

Valete optime,
Triarius

Salvete omnes et quizzers!

Here is another Roman quiz:

Which Roman Emporer are you?

http://quizfarm. com/test. php?q_id= 6333N

This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.

Valete optime,
Triarius

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Salvete

Trajan

Not bad!

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Vitellius Triarius"
<lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes et quizzers!
>
> Here is another Roman quiz:
>
> Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
> http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N
>
> This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>

Salvete Omnes!

I drew

Trajan
100%
Marcus Aurelius
79%
Vespasian
75%

>Salvete omnes et quizzers!
>
>Here is another Roman quiz:
>
>Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
>http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N
>
>This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.
>
>Valete optime,
>Triarius

--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae

Antoninus Pius!

Cute!!

I had Hadrian 75% with Nero and Caligula tied for second (71%). I think that
agreeing to using the fire to rebuild Rome and agreeing with 'if a sibling
looks good, why not?' may have gotten me into trouble.:-p I also answered
that I prefer boys (men). It's great to be the empress!

Vale,
Diana

Salve Diana amice,

Thet "I prefer boys" got you the Hadrian for sure.

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina"
<diana@...> wrote:

>
> Cute!!
>
> I had Hadrian 75% with Nero and Caligula tied for second (71%). I

think that

> agreeing to using the fire to rebuild Rome and agreeing with 'if a

sibling

> looks good, why not?' may have gotten me into trouble.:-p I also

answered

> that I prefer boys (men). It's great to be the empress!
>
> Vale,
> Diana
>

Salve Falco,
I checked: "Taboo" is actually by Nagisa Oshima (see
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0213682/)
Check it out if you have the chance: it's very realistic. (I also
practiced Iaido, though not in Japan).
Vale,
Plauta

> C. Aurelia Falco Silvana omnibus civibus SPD.
>
> I am afraid I have very little good to say about Takeshi Kitano.
> Because I hold a 4th degree belt in classical Japanese Iaido (earned
> in Japan), I dare to think I may be allowed to differ.

Salve Praetor M. Curiatius Complutensis,

Enjoy your few days break. In the meantime...

< L. Equitius is guilty of contempt, aggravated, premeditated, with
treachery and recidivist

I didn't know what recidivist is so I looked it up. It means 'a habitual
criminal'. Criminal? Cincinnatus? Thems fighting words. Are we calling
people criminals who don't sign up for an email list that you call a
'court'? It is truly amazing to me that you can write that with a straight
face.

<None of this would have happened if any of his friends or supporters had
been offered as a guarantor of Cincinnatus, but nobody has dared to ensure
that Cincinnatus accepts an someday to stand trial.
If I knew what a guarantor was I might volunteer.

<And finally the iudices: Do you really think that people that the Goddess
Fortuna has chosen as a iudices have so little personality to be influenced
by my comments?
It has nothing to do with personality because anyone can be influenced. That
is why it tooks months to try to find an unbiased jury for OJ Simpson....
And some citizen chose the jury and not Fortuna because I doubt that She
would have screwed up and put Tiberius Galerius on the jury when he was
already the advocaat for Cincinnatus Augur.

>IF you really think so, then you have a poor opinion about our fellow
>citizens.

I don't think poorly of all of my fellow citizens, just a small handful-- to
be specific Modianus and Piscinus and those of their gang who have removed
or driven away Scaurus, Cassius, Cinncinatus, F Galerius Aurelianus and
others out of some oddball vengeance. That said, I think highly of many
people here, including you for having the stamina to deal with this very
unpleasant situation.

Vale,
Diana Octavia Aventina

----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Octavia Aventina
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; Novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Declare a mistrial please


Salve Praetor M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS,

NR ML in cc.

First of all I have to thank you for all of your hard work during the last
weeks. I know that you are doing the best that you can in an unpleasant
situation.

It troubles me is that when it is convenient, references are made to
macronational law, such as "I only know that the laws of many countries
stipulate that when a person is not present at the trial is declared in
absentia and automatically convicted because not appearing he admits his
guilt, he waived his right to defend itself. In other countries the process
continued, but without the jury."

As we all know we actually aren't in Rome in a Forum and so all of us have a
real life. Cincinnatus Augur is most likely working or occupied with family
matters. In this situation we just cannot compare ourselves to countries in
the real world.

The thing is, if we are going to compare NR law with macronational law when
it is convenient, then we need to do so when it is inconvenient as well. For
example, in the US and in most modern countries no one can be tried twice
for the same crime. And yet here we are: now it is Piscinus who has taken
Cincinnatus to court for the same reason that Modianus did. This case would
have been thrown out before it even began.

>a person who makes deaf ears to all constitutionally established procedures
>is a bad citizen.

I don't believe that in macronational law the judge can declare-- before the
trial begins-- that the defendent is a bad citizen. You are pre-judging him
based on one incident -- the fact that he did not show up for court the last
time--and ignoring the fact that he has been serving Nova Roma for 10 years.
This is bias before the trial even starts.

>In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
>the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.
In macronational law, the judge does not refer to a previous court case
where the defendent was found guilty. This again is bias before the trial
even starts.

And so while we are using macronational law as a basis for this case-- since
our NR laws do not cover everything--- a mistrial needs to be declared and
the case dropped. There is no doubt to me that your comments above (the full
text is below) have unduly influenced the 'unbiased' jury that has been
appointed. Therefore Cincinnatus cannot possibly have a fair trial.

Thanks for your time,
Diana Octavia Aventina
_____________

----- Original Message -----
From: M.CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS
To: novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com ; Stephen Gallagher ; Marcus Horatius
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:15 PM
Subject: [Novaromatribunalis] DE IUDICIO M. MORAVI VS L. EQUITI: DILATIO

Praetor M. Curiatius M. Moravi, Ti. Galeri, Iudicibus et omnes civibus Novae
Romae S·P·D·

Ex officio Praetoris

Despite Equitius had 16 days to respond to the call of the Praetor and go to
court on the set date, almost 30 hours have passed since the process had
begun without him has made us the honour to honour us with their presence.

At 14 hours (Roma time ) ended term that we gave to Reus.

L. Equitius have not yet registered on the list of NRTribunalis with his
usual Yahoo ID which is the only means available to us to verify a person's
identity.

Personally I consider this attitude as frank rebellion with established
rules of Nova Roma and the imperium of the Praetor.

But this rebellion is nothing new for our fellow L. Equitius:

He already was charged with "subvert and ignore the Constitution to achieve
his desired ends" and received the penalty of exactio in 1999. He was
reinstate as citizen only "In the spirit of compromise and cooperation
embodied by the great Goddess Concordia"

In other trial he suffered the penalty of contempt for refusing to go to
the court et alter, in addition to losing the trial by nollo contendere.

Using the words of another magistrate of Nova Roma: "I am not deaf to the
cries of his supporters and friends" and he has many friends, but what can I
do? Do I forgive him and just reprimand him as a child naughty? He is not a
child naughty, he is a man, and adult, I thought he was a responsible
person, he knows the leges of Nova Roma, and he knows the responsibilities
of a member of NR, besides being a member of the Board of Directors of Nova
Roma Inc.

L. Equitius are subverting and ignoring the leges and the Constitution to
achieve his desired ends.

He wishes to become a martyr, secure of support of his friends and then say,
"I am just a victim".

Many people says that L. Equitius is a good citizen, a good person, a good
father (I read) and a good friend, I do not know personally L. Equitius so I
am not going to be me who denies that he is a good person, a good father or
a good friend, but I am going to be who claims that a person who makes deaf
ears to all constitutionally established procedures is a bad citizen.

L. Equitius should only be present in the court, registering on the list of
NRTribunalis, I do not even asked him to read the messages, but he did not
come.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

His advocate ask that he be tried in absentia. His advocate says that there
are legal precedents, but he did not says what are these precedents.

I only know that the laws of many countries stipulate that when a person is
not present at the trial is declared in absentia and automatically convicted
because not appearing he admits his guilt, he waived his right to defend
itself. In other countries the process continued, but without the jury.

In the ancient Rome the law was clear: "....si in ius vocat
ito...........com peroranto ambo praesentes.................prasenti litem
addicito............." (if one is called to go in the court he must go, to
speak both parties must be present, if one of the parties does not appear
the Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present).

In Nova Roma my Edict is clear:
"If one of the parties does not appear on the date set by the Praetor, the
Praetor shall adjudge the case in favour of the one present.

a. If the Actor is not present at the trial on the date set by the Praetor,
this means that he or she renounces to litigate, and he or she loses the
right to address the Praetor's Court with the same case in perpetuity, and
will face charges for contempt.

b. If the Reus is not present at the trial, he or she automatically loses
the case because if the Reus does not offer a defence, then it is nollo
contendere and left to the Praetor to decide his sentence, because he has
acquiesced to a verdict of guilt, and will face charges for contempt.

c.The Praetor may, at his discretion, defer the trial if a guarantor or
vindex guarantees that the cause of non-appearance, by the actor or Reus, is
justified by unforeseen. This vindex or guarantor will be fined if his
sponsored part is not present at trial on the new date set by Praetor."

In Nova Roma de iurisprudentia is clear.

Nobody has put his hand in the fire for L. Equitius and nobody has emerged
as a guarantor of L. Equitius.

And I repeat the question:What should I do now?

I can adjudge the case in favour of M. Moravius, the one present.
I can fine L. Equitius for contempt.
I can convict L. Equitius to the penaltyes of inhabiliattio and exatio.

It's probably what I should do.

I do not want to be deaf to the cries of L. Equitius supporters and friends.
L. Equitius lawyer had made a request that I believe no legal basis, but
which must be studied.

But L. Equitius is guilty of contempt and will be fined for it.

I defer the trial until next March 9.

During this time I will look at the proposal by the advocatus of L. Equitius
and I will decide what to do with regard to this trial.

Given under my hand on March 4th 2008 CE in the consulship of M. Moravius
and T. Iulius

--
M.CVRIATIVS.COMPLVTENSIS
PRÆTOR NOVÆ ROMÆ
Senator
Prætor Hispaniæ
Scriba Censoris KFBM
NOVA ROMA

"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> writes:

> Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
> http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N

Hmmmm.....

Augustus 79%
Vespasian 79%
Antoninus Pius 75%
Marcus Aurelius 71%
[...]

Not bad, I suppose.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

---

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Salvete,
I got Trajan 82% and Vitellius 72%.
Plauta

>
> Salvete omnes et quizzers!
>
> Here is another Roman quiz:
>
> Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
> http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N
>
> This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>

Kirsteen Wright wrote:

> Antoninus Pius!

Salve,

Same here!

Antoninus Pius 86%
Augustus 71%
Marcus Aurelius 61%
Domitian 61%

Seems my preference for stability makes itself known. :)

My slight "paranoia" (you're not paranoid if everyone REALLY is out to
get you - which they'd be if you were emperor) probably accounts for
Domitian as fourth.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.

M•IVL•SEVERVS
PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ

SENATOR
PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
INTERPRETER
MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM

---

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I got Trajan.

"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes et quizzers!

Here is another Roman quiz:

Which Roman Emporer are you?

http://quizfarm. com/test. php?q_id= 6333N

This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.

Valete optime,
Triarius

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Salve Praetor,

>>..guarantor is, in Nova Roma's and in other legal systems<<

Unless a law has passed I don't know about, there is no such thing in
NR's legal system. I agree wuith others that we can't keep co-opting
ideas from other systems; we have to work within what we have.

>>I guarantee that Cincinnatus will appear before the Courts in due

time.<<

I don't think anyone can guarantee the behavior of another.

Vale,

C. Popillius laenas

----- Original Message -----

From: Gaius Marcius Crispus

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 1:51 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Certamen historicum Ludi Conditorum - Historical quiz about NovaRoma. - Final

Salvete omnes

We have now arrived at the end of the third and final stage of the
Certamen, the final answers are in, and the final results are ready
to be announced.

We have seen a very high standard of answers from competitors who
included some very distinguished citizens, and some who competed for
the first time. My thanks to all of them for an enjoyable and closely
fought contest. There is scarcely a whisker between the leaders. I
know from your comments that you have all enjoyed the quest. I think
we have all refreshed our memories and learned something new about
our Republic. I hope those watching from the sidelines have also
enjoyed watching the contest.

So here are the answers to stage 3:-

17. Name the 3 orders into which citizens are classed.

Ordo patricius (Patrician), Ordo plebeius (Plebeian), Ordo equester
(Equestrian) .

18. What is the minimum age, to the exact day, to become a full
citizen?

18 years plus the 90 day probationary period (tirocinium) before they
can vote or stand for public office as full citizens.

There are exceptions, particularly for those who start off as minor
citizens who may take the citizen exam up to 90 days before their
18th birthday.

CURRENT EVENTS

19. What is a provocatio?

The right of a citizen to appeal against a magisterial decision. Most
hearings would take place in the Comitia Populi Tributa. Where
lifetime exile is in question the provocatio takes place in the
Comitia Centuriata.

20. Before the current one, presented on Feb. 20th this year, how
many have there been, and who were the registering magistrates?

Only two have been started.

i. Cn-Equit-Marinus accepted the provocatio of L. Sicinius
Drusus, but no hearing was held because the issue was resolved.
ii. In 2758 Trib. P Memmius Albucius accepted a provocatio.from
T.Galerias Paulinus concerning submission of names for election in
2758.

MEETING UP.

21. Where and when was the fifth European Conventus Novae Romae held?

The V Conventus Novae Romae was held in Britannia, along Hadrian's
Wall, from 3 to 9 August 2006. Citizens from Britain, continental
Europe, and North America traveled the length of the wall.

22. Who was the Governor of the Province in which it was held that
year?
C Livia was the Governor of Britannia that year.

23. Two citizens travelled all the way from the USA to attend this
5th Conventus. Who were they?

M Octavius Gracchus (formerly Germanicus) and A Tullia Scholastica.

24. Where and when will the next European Conventus be held?

The next European Conventus will be held in Dacia from July 30th to
August 4th this year.

And the scores and final positions are:-

C. Aurelia Falco Silvana 55
M. Martianius Lupus 54
Cn-Equit Marinus 54
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 48
L.Fidelius Lusitanus 42
Pompeia_Minucia Tiberia 19

I therefore have great pleasure in declaring C. Aurelia Falco Silvana
the winner, by the closest of margins. Many congratulations to her
and to you all for an excellent and well-fought contest.

Valete optime

C. Marcius Crispus

----- Original Message -----

From: iulius sabinus

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Another Roman Quiz

SALVE ET SALVETE!

 

Funny!

 

I drew Trajan.

 

VALETE,

IVL SABINVS

"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_ triarius@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Salvete omnes et quizzers!

Here is another Roman quiz:

Which Roman Emporer are you?

http://quizfarm. com/test. php?q_id= 6333N

This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.

Valete optime,
Triarius

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

On 3/5/08, L. Vitellius Triarius wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes et quizzers!
>
> Here is another Roman quiz:
>
> Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
> http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N
>
> This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>

Well, after spending some time answering in as honest a fashion, and
answering what looked to be a tie-breaker...

You scored as a Trajan
You are quite fortunate to rank as the emperor Trajan, possibly the
greatest of Roman emperors. You have relentlessly expanded the empire
and even humbled the mighty Parthian empire. Loved by all, vastly
larger than life, you are the model for all future emperors. It is
hard to find a bad thing to say about you. HAIL CAESAR!

Trajan 82%
Augustus 82%
Antoninus Pius 79%
Marcus Aurelius 75%
Vespasian 71%
Hadrian 68%
Nerva 57%
Tiberius 50%
Domitian 50%
Claudius 46%
Vitellius 39%
Commodus 25%
Nero 21%
Caligula 0%

--
=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poet

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/stefnullarsson
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Salve

I scored Trajan. not bad not bad at all.

Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


Trajan
86%
Marcus Aurelius
71%
Augustus
61%
Hadrian
57%
Vespasian
54%
Claudius
50%
Nerva
50%
Antoninus Pius
46%
Tiberius
39%
Vitellius
36%
Domitian
32%
Commodus
14%
Caligula
7%
Nero
4%

Salve Galeri amice,

57% Hardian huh? Musta answered "yes" to the boy lover questuion ;-).

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve
>
> I scored Trajan. not bad not bad at all.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> Trajan
> 86%
> Marcus Aurelius
> 71%
> Augustus
> 61%
> Hadrian
> 57%
> Vespasian
> 54%
> Claudius
> 50%
> Nerva
> 50%
> Antoninus Pius
> 46%
> Tiberius
> 39%
> Vitellius
> 36%
> Domitian
> 32%
> Commodus
> 14%
> Caligula
> 7%
> Nero
> 4%
>

Salve Crispus:

 

Looks like I had a bad start, don't you think? from 6 competitors including me, I scored 5th! I was hoping to be at least the 2nd.

 

Vale,

 

LVC.FID.LVSITANVS. SPD.

.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
<gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Galeri amice,
>
> 57% Hardian huh? Musta answered "yes" to the boy lover questuion ;-

).

>
> Laenas

LOL...I got 57% on Hadrian, but I voted NO on that one. Also, I find
it unique that I scored highest on Vespasian...the General
responsible for the death of Vitellius...but that was Aulus...

Vespasian, Trajan, Augustus and Marcus Aurelius in the top four...I'm
happy!

*************************

You scored as Vespasian

Your attention to military affairs and your humble life make you
Vespasian, one of the great emperors. Nearly your whole life you have
fought wars of conquest or crushed rebellions, and in fact you have
earned the empire in this way after the bloody civil war of The Year
of the Four Emperors. The empire is in capable hands with your
practicality and discipline.

Vespasian 89%
Trajan 82%
Augustus 79%
Marcus Aurelius 71%
Antoninus Pius 61%
Hadrian 57%
Claudius 57%
Tiberius 54%
Domitian 50%
Nerva 39%
Vitellius 39%
Caligula 32%
Commodus 32%
Nero 29%

*************************

Vale optime,
Triarius

Salve,

I also am a Vespasian!

Vespasian
100%
Trajan
93%
Antoninus Pius
86%
Tiberius
86%
Augustus
71%

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus

On 3/5/08, L. Vitellius Triarius <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Galeri amice,
> >
> > 57% Hardian huh? Musta answered "yes" to the boy lover questuion ;-
> ).
> >
> > Laenas
>
> LOL...I got 57% on Hadrian, but I voted NO on that one. Also, I find
> it unique that I scored highest on Vespasian...the General
> responsible for the death of Vitellius...but that was Aulus...
>
> Vespasian, Trajan, Augustus and Marcus Aurelius in the top four...I'm
> happy!
>

Attachments :

== 23:00 ==

Direct from the Forum romanum, by our she-reporter D. Licentia Ligula
for CLC (Catena Ludorum Curulium)



This closing ceremony has just begun in the forum. It is 23:00 here
in Rome, on this March 5th.

Aed. cur. Lucilius and Memmius are on the Rostra with both Consuls
and censors, the Princeps Senatus, the Flamen Martialis, Tribune
Livia and Sacerdos Concordiae Cornelius.

P. Memmius Albucius speaks :

"Quirites !

Here is already our second closing ceremony, after the Lupercalia !
And it is a more important one for, even if we are not ending our
Games by a feria like last month, we are ending a very special week
that we will never forget.

For it has been the first time that our Republic had to celebrate a
ten years period, here, in this year 2761 a.u.c., its 10th birthday.

We aediles had called for a good weather. We had it. We have wished
proposing you many Ludi, and various ones. We did it. We have wished
honoring our Patres Patriae who have revived Rome creating Nova
Roma : we did it also, though we have been sad enough not to be
allowed receiving our Patres on these Rostra with all the Illustri
cives who are all around us tonight, like last kalends, on our
birthday.

We have asked for the help of every involved magistrate, priest,
sacerdos and vestales : we generally had the honor to obtain it.
Allow me here to thank again, specially, the whole Collegium
Pontificum, our Consules, our Princeps Senatus, our Augures and
Vestales. Without them all, the specific relation that we have willed
between our Ludi and our religious rituals would not have been
possible.

But we would also want to thank all of you, Quirites, the whole
Senate and orators, you Honorable Praetors who, usually and still
very recently, were fighting, as often we Romans like to do, in our
public places or assemblies, and here, in this Forum, about last
February events.

We, humble aediles curules, thinking that a 10th birthday did deserve
such an address, have then asked all of you to help us celebrating
our Patres Patriae, their re-fundation of Rome through Nova Roma, and
this unique moment in our short res publica llife. Yes, to help us
respecting a kind of Pax civilis.

And you, Senatus Populusque Romanus, you have, as magnificent as our
Ancestors were, heard us. You have decided that, in front of external
or internal dangers, Rome and Its Gods were to prevail on all our
governmental business or political analysis or anathemes.

And we had wonderful games ! And it is thanks to you, and thanks to
our Gods.

I would say that they seem satisfied by the whole time involved by
priests, sacerdotes and vestales, then by our aedilitas, to work for
them, humbly and respectfully.

With my dear collega Lucilius, we have just, before this ceremony,
dedicated a small and very simple thanksgiving ritual to our Gods, to
all and each of them who have protected every day of our Ludi. Gods
of Rome, and you, specially Faunus, Jupiter, Juno, Dea Roma and
Quirinus, I, Memmius, collega Lucilius, Quaestors Vitellius and
Hortensia sacerdos, and our whole aedilitas humbly thank you again
for your protection and support during these three days.

Now, and because these Tenth Birthday Games are more than simple
Ludi, more than a common opportunity for the intervention of simple
aediles curules, Lucilius aedilis and me are honored to let the last
word of this week, of this Ludi Conditorum celebration, to Consul
maior M. Moravius Piscinus, who will officially close these Ludi.

Consul Moravius speaks:

"How much greater it is," one Roman once wrote of another, "and more
glorious, to have advanced the frontiers of the Roman Genius, than
those of the Roman Empire."

Each Citizen of Nova Roma has ventured to take up that challenge. We
have brought the Genius of Roma Aeterna into our hearts. We have each
contributed a part of our lives towards achieving that goal of
founding the Ideal of Roma Aeterna into our lives and into the World
around us. Therefore, while we close these celebrations of our Tenth
Anniversary, I say to you:

Look forward! Go forth! With the Immortal Gods as your guide, I
pray that you may now find Glory as you set off to advance the
frontiers of the Genius that is Rome.

I officially declare these Ludi Conditorum, games of our Founders and
of Nova Roma 10th birthday, closed.

Ite Quirites !"



D. Licentia Ligula was speaking, for Catena Ludorum Curulium, from
the the Forum romanum, and it is 23:59 Urbs time, on this March 5th.

---Salve Severus Praetor, Salvete Omnes:

Thank you for your two messages today regarding my request, and that I
would just have to wait. No problem. I'm not sure where I suggested
that I'd be inconvenienced in the least because the request couldn't
be met immediately. No need. I realize that we are adjourned until
Monday.

But given you mentioned it, Complutensis Praetor in fact took the
time to write me this morning, despite his busy agenda over the next
couple of days, and I believe the matter is settled.

My questions regarding moderation and posting privileges on the
Tribunalis list were genuine, and are probably curiosities shared by
others on that list, who are serving in one capacity or another.

I appreciate your time.

Valete
Pompeia




In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M•IVL•SEVERVS"
<marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Senatrix Strabo, salvete omnes,
>
> Praetor Complutensis is away, today and tomorrow. Your message is

already in the Tribunalis list. I don't know if you're moderated, but
I agree that you shouldn't be, since you're a iudice. I'll check on
this as soon as I can, and I will unmoderate you, if this is the case.

> Regarding your commentaries and your request, you'll have to wait

for a response from Praetor Complutensis, until tomorrow evening, or
Friday morning.

> I apologize for the inconveniences.
>
> Valete,
>
>
>
>
> M•IVL•SEVERVS
> PRÆTOR•NOVƕROMÆ
>
> SENATOR
> PRÆTOR•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
> SCRIBA•CENSORIS•K•F•B•M
> INTERPRETER
> MVSÆVS•COLLEGII•ERATOVS•SODALITATIS•MVSARVM
> SOCIVS•CHORI•MVSARVM
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>

Salvete!

I got Augustus. Caligula was at the bottom of the list - thankfully!

Augustus - 82%
Hadrian - 79%
Marcus Aurelius - 64%
Domitian - 61%
Antonius Pius - 57%

Valete,
F. Martiania


--
Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis

My Myspace space
http://www.myspace.com/faustamartiania
My Yahoo 360 page
http://360.yahoo.com/minervalis_barnowl
My RomanSpace page
http://romanspace.ning.com/fmgm
My Complete Forum Signature
http://socaldeni.googlepages.com/

--
Fausta Martiania Gangalia Minervalis

My Myspace space
http://www.myspace.com/faustamartiania
My RomanSpace page
http://romanspace.ning.com/fmgm
My Yahoo 360 page
http://360.yahoo.com/minervalis_barnowl
My Complete Forum Signature
http://socaldeni.googlepages.com/

-I'm a Trajan:
93%
then Caligula! 75%
& Hadrian 75%
being emperor could be fun;-)
Maior

> I also am a Vespasian!
>
> Vespasian
> 100%
> Trajan
> 93%
> Antoninus Pius
> 86%
> Tiberius
> 86%
> Augustus
> 71%
>
> Vale,
> Quintus Servilius Priscus
>
> On 3/5/08, L. Vitellius Triarius <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...>

wrote:

> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
> > <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Galeri amice,
> > >
> > > 57% Hardian huh? Musta answered "yes" to the boy lover

questuion ;-

> > ).
> > >
> > > Laenas
> >
> > LOL...I got 57% on Hadrian, but I voted NO on that one. Also, I

find

> > it unique that I scored highest on Vespasian...the General
> > responsible for the death of Vitellius...but that was Aulus...
> >
> > Vespasian, Trajan, Augustus and Marcus Aurelius in the top

four...I'm

> > happy!
> >
>

I came out as Vespasian
Gaius Pomepius Marcellus


On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:13:29 -0000
"L. Vitellius Triarius" <lucius_vitellius_triarius@...> wrote:

> Salvete omnes et quizzers!
>
> Here is another Roman quiz:
>
> Which Roman Emporer are you?
>
> http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=6333N
>
> This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.
>
> Valete optime,
> Triarius
>

Salvete quirites,

The following links take you to user-created quizzes on the OKCupid
web site. You don't have to join OK Cupid to take the quizzes there,
but since it's a dating site, you should expect to see dating related
ads in the margins if you do follow the links.

The quality of these things varies. Some are pretty good. Some, not
so much. They're all interesting.

The Mythological Goddess Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=3992216679008205011

The Mythological God Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=8519992224112523293

The What Roman Are You Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=9824914681168115545

The Roman Emperor's Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=9983098764670189097

The Are you a good Roman Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=13439808727928499842

The Roman Military Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=456704310146056188

The Late Roman Republic Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=10239523142402285987

The Ancient Roman Civics Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=3641485089838825359

The Generic Roman Knowledge Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=2003221161242665962

The Ancient Roman Culture Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=16256986204959429909

The Roman Emperors Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=10773222179224564318

The Hard/Obscure Roman Republic Test
http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=15123057233198413655

Vale!

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Q. Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.

Salvete, Quirites.

I come before you today to ask for the help of anyone willing and able to
assist. There are a variety of different sacred topics which could use some
sound academic research, and the sheer volume of material in which some of the
needed information would prove quite a feat for any one individual to attempt to
handle alone. That said, I am looking for anyone willing to assist in
researching a few specific topics.

Of course, I am not in a position to offer any type of official appointments,
nor am I in a position to offer some tangible payment; however I am in a
position to offer my heartfelt thanks for any assistance given, and to ensure
that whatever work is done does not go without recognition.

All that said, if there is anyone willing to assist me in the research I am
planning to undertake, please be so kind as to write me *privately*, at
'metellus' at 'alexandria' dot 'cc'.

In advance, I greatly thank you all.

Optime Valete,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex

A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae C. Ambrosio Ambrosio Artoro Iustino quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Maior Iustine sal;
 Iustine, our laws and legal processes are in an infant state. So
it would be excellent if you would contribute  in any way, such as  
rewriting our criminal laws to reflect Rome, as the tribuna Livia
Plauta suggested.

I was called to a lawsuit myself in December, I contacted Cordus to
represent me and he did a lot of research, specifially in formuale
and challenged the praetor's (Scholastica) formula as well as
submitting evidence of prejudice. Scholastica should have recused
herself in my case, but she did not.


    ATS:  Whether or not you are capable of understanding this, or, for that matter, whether Cordus (or anyone else) is, I happen to have a good judicial temperament and do not let my personal opinions of anyone enter into the likes of judicial proceedings.  It is absolute nonsense to say that I am prejudiced, or that I could not have conducted a fair trial.  When I ran for the praetura, I said that any and all trials would be conducted fairly, and they were.  If you had gone to trial, you would have been treated equitably.  It would make no difference to me whether my best friend were a defendant and my worst enemy the plaintiff any more than if the reverse were true.  We check our guns at the courthouse door.  I realize that it is so much more satisfying to say that I could not have conducted a fair trial involving you, but that is not true.  In any case, it is the iudex/iudices, NOT the praetor/praetrix, who determine(s) the guilt or innocence of the accused.  

    The formula was prepared in accordance with the law.  

    In addition, since Cato had already recused himself, who would have tried this case if I had recused myself?  (And there was absolutely NO reason why I should have).  Should we have invested the juniormost praetorian scriba with imperium in order to try you?  I don’t think so.  One consul was MIA, and the other had his hands full, not to mention that it was the holiday period when some seem to feel compelled to occupy themselves with matters of considerably lesser importance than lawsuits.   I repeat:  who would have tried you?  No one, and that would have suited you just fine despite the nature of those remarks of yours which occasioned the filing of this lawsuit.  

Marinus did not refile, but if he desires to I will put aside my
questorial immunity, because having a working justice system is
important for Nova Roma and Romans.

    ATS: That it is...and Marinus might just refile.

I suggest you read Livia Plauta's posts which sum up the situation
quite well.
 optime vale
 Maior

I am looking foward to your article on Volturnus, do check mine out
on Egeria, nymphs, the gods and goddesses of the rivers and springs
of Rome were known for their healing powers.
 optime vale
 Maior

Valete.

>
> Salve Scholastica, and thank you for your very thorough response.
> There are, as you say, many issues involved in the current case,
which
> makes it difficult to parse them through email.
>
> I don't disagree that Nova Roma is and should be governed by its
own
> laws rather than by macronational law. But, we do not have a body
of
> jurisprudence or lawyers trained in that jurisprudence. Principles
> such as double jeopardy, res judicata, and ex post facto crimes
> ordinarily involve some very interesting hair-splitting in
> macronational law. Nova Roma hasn't developed a body of law around
> those sub-issues; it has only the few simple code provisions. So,
it
> isn't clear whether or how those principles apply here. Where the
law
> is unclear, we can look to international law, as would a
macronational
> court.
>
> I understand that the current case involves some strong
personalities,
> many of whom have difficult relationships. I've been a citizen of
Nova
> Roma only since 2003, but I've had a chance to interact with many
of
> the principals at one time or another. I was in the CP, as a
nonvoting
> flamen, when Maior had her problems. And, I apologize to you if my
> message was unclear. I know that we have several lawyers (including
> me). As I said, Maior is "[t]he one person in this controversy
known
> to me to be a lawyer".
>
> The current case is very interesting. From what I read here, I
don't
> think it has any merit if the only question is the legal principles
> involved. I reserve judgment about who hurt whose feelings at some
> time in the distant past.
>
> Vale,
> Iustinus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A. Tullia Scholastica"
> <fororom@> wrote:
> >
> > >  
> > >  A. Tullia Scholastica C. Ambrosio Artoro Iustino quiritibus
bonae
> voluntatis
> > > S.P.D.
> > >  
> > >
> > > Salve Diana Octavia,
> > >
> > > Ancient Rome had something Nova Roma does not have -- people
trained
> > > in the law.
> > >
> > >     ATS:  You are very wrong.  We have several lawyers among
us,
> as well as
> > > people from all walks of life.  Offhand, A. Apollonius Cordus,
> Domitius
> > > Constantinus Fuscus, C. Curiatius Complutensis, M. Hortensia
> Maior, P. Memmius
> > > Albucius (and if he is still a citizen, Papinianus) are all
> attorneys.  Thus
> > > we have one from Britain, one from Italy, one from Spain, one
from
> the US who
> > > practiced in Ireland, one from France, and possibly one from
> Germany.  Not
> > > bad, if you ask me.  Moreover, we have a number of classicists
> here, most of
> > > whom happen to be very logical people, and whose undergraduate
> alumni often go
> > > to law school rather than graduate school in the classics
because
> it is
> > > quicker, easier, and more remunerative.
> > >
> > >
> > >  It is indeed distressing to watch the magistrates of Nova
> > > Roma scramble to understand and apply basic legal precepts.
The one
> > > person in this controversy known to me to be a lawyer has
chosen to
> > > use her skills for advocacy rather than to help the Republic.
> > >
> > >     ATS:  As many of us here are well aware, MHM has a grudge
> against the
> > > reus, who almost certainly was among those in the CP who
labeled
> her as nefas
> > > a few years ago.  Moreover, she is the protegee of the actor in
> the first
> > > lawsuit.  As far as the magistrates are concerned, we do our
best
> to follow
> > > OUR laws, not those of assorted macronations.
> > >
> > > I think you might enjoy reading the European Convention on
Human
> > > Rights, which says, in relevant part, "No one shall be liable
to be
> > > tried or punished again in criminal proceedings under the
jurisdiction
> > > of the same State for an offence for which he has already been
finally
> > > acquitted or convicted in accordance with the law and penal
procedure
> > > of that State." [Seventh Protocol, Article Four]
> > >
> > > The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (United Nations,
1948) is
> > > also interesting. "Everyone is entitled in full equality to a
fair and
> > > public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the
> > > determination of his rights and obligations and of any
criminal charge
> > > against him." [Article 10]. And, "No one shall be held guilty
of any
> > > penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not
> > > constitute a penal offence, under national or international
law, at
> > > the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be
imposed
> > > than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence
was
> > > committed." [Article 11(2)]
> > >
> > >     ATS:  We have been trying to convince the actores that
barring
> senatores
> > > from a list before that was required is not a crime.  We do
have
> an ex post
> > > facto law.
> > >
> > > For interested lay people, I recommend the Wikipedia articles
on
> > > "Double Jeopordy," "Res Judicata" and "Collateral Estoppel." I
hope
> > > our Nova Roman officials will do some research.
> > >
> > >     ATS:  Our magistrates do research in our Tabularium, which
is
> our law
> > > library.  Those are the laws which govern us, not those of
> macronations.  We
> > > do not resort to macronational law when our own laws suffice;
if a
> truly
> > > macronational issue is at stake, we are supposed to contact the
> relevant
> > > authorities.  In fact, I believe that this has been done on at
> least one
> > > occasion, possibly more than one.  In most cases, we consult
the
> judicial
> > > laws, the leges Saliciae, which are well written, but need a
> little tune-up on
> > > such matters as failure to appear in court and in the writing
of
> the formula,
> > > as well as time limits for certain portions of the judicial
process.
> > >
> > >     As others and I have noted, there are a great many issues
> involved in
> > > these cases, not all of which are visible on the surface or to
> those who are
> > > new to Nova Roma and who consequently do not know what is
going on
> behind the
> > > scenes.  If you thought that M. Hortensia was the only lawyer
in
> NR, you must
> > > be very new; she may be the only female attorney (and moreover
is
> a graduate
> > > student in another field at present), but she is a long remove
> from the only
> > > one.  
> > >     
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > Iustinus
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale, et valete.
>

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/55760;

Salvete omnes et quizzers!

Here is another Roman quiz:

Which Roman Emporer are you?

http://quizfarm. com/test. php?q_id= 6333N

This ought to be interesting! I drew Vespasian.

Valete optime,
Triarius

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