Maior Gallis spd;
Bien dit mes amis;
Moi - je suis francophone, écrivons-nous en Francais [bete! mon
clavier manque les accents circonflex et la cédille]

La Scholastica se deplait que ses amies fort chrétiens et pretres [de
clérge catholique] ne pouvent pas joindre Nova Roma á cause de notre
état paien: ´mos, je dis 'tant pis pour elle; bien pour nous.' Qui
veut ces types comme membres de Nova Roma? Notre chère moraliste
déteste Martial, le dieu priape et tous choses contre son culte
puritanique.
Les grands écrivains Francais connaissent bien La déesse...
voici un poème d'Apollinaire: Le Neuvième Poème Secret:

J'adore ta toison qui est le parfait triangle
De la Divinité
Je suis le bûcheron de l'unique forêt vierge
O mon Eldorado
Je suis le seul poisson de ton océan voluptueux
Toi ma belle sirène
Je suis l'alpiniste de tes montagnes neigeuses
O mon alpe très blanche
Je suis l'archer divin de ta bouche si belle
O mon très cher carquois
Et je suis le haleur de tes cheveux nocturnes
O beau navire sur le canal de mes baisers
Et les lys de tes bras m'appellent par des signes
O mon jardin d'été
Les fruits de ta poitrine mûrissent pour moi leur douceur
O mon verger parfumé
Et je te dresse ô Madeleine ô ma beauté sur le monde
Comme la torche de toute lumière

Je te salue Vénus; déesse accepte cette offrande belle!
bene valete in pacem Veneri
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis

> dexter
>
> j'ai grandi à la Butte Montmartre mais après un long périple je

tiens un resto dans le Jura vers Saint-Claude

>
> Vale
> Varro
>

Salve.
"Maior" rory12001@... rory12001
Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:35 am (PDT)
wrote:
"Salvet Quirites;
I feel the need to repost this bit of information on the Main List
separately,
it was with real surprise that I read these shocking words
written by A. Tullia Scholastica:

" world-class Latinists do not grow on trees, and those who are
willing to participate in, or even put up with, an organization of
distinctly non-Christian orientation are rarer still."

I can tell the Quirites that A. Garseius Avitus is a devout atheist
and loathes Christianity; I know because we've discussed it. So who
is speaking here: it is A. Tullia Scholastica.

I too find Scholastica's words offensive. Nova Roma is one of the
few pagan organizations that permits non-pagans to join. If you find
Nova Roma's devotion to the gods something to be 'put up with'

As M. Lucretius Agricola points out below there are many
reenactment and latin groups that I'm sure you would find more
congenial to your tastes & beliefs.

bene valete in pacem deorum
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis
Read about Dea Mens:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Mens
Read about the Gods:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods

I find it shocking and offensive in the extreme

> that anyone would suggest that it is something to be "put up with".
> There are many other groups devoted to the study or Roman history,
> Roman re-enactment or Latin, so I would have thought that "putting

up"

> with our non-Christian-ness would not have been necessary.""

But Benedictus XVI's religion is a novaroman cultus.
Vale

Salve,
One of Romes greatest strengths was it's ability to recognise other
religious beliefs, and some times adapt to them. This wa true of the Jewish
faith as well as early Christians. Rome was a amalgam of many cultures and
creeds, all living in peace. Let us continue in our Nova Roman world to follow
this exaple.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:42:06 +0200
"Claudio Guzzo" <claudio.guzzo@...> wrote:

> Salve.
> "Maior" rory12001@... rory12001
>Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:35 am (PDT)
> wrote:
> "Salvet Quirites;
> I feel the need to repost this bit of information on the Main List
> separately,
> it was with real surprise that I read these shocking words
> written by A. Tullia Scholastica:
>
> " world-class Latinists do not grow on trees, and those who are
> willing to participate in, or even put up with, an organization of
> distinctly non-Christian orientation are rarer still."
>
> I can tell the Quirites that A. Garseius Avitus is a devout atheist
> and loathes Christianity; I know because we've discussed it. So who
> is speaking here: it is A. Tullia Scholastica.
>
> I too find Scholastica's words offensive. Nova Roma is one of the
> few pagan organizations that permits non-pagans to join. If you find
> Nova Roma's devotion to the gods something to be 'put up with'
>
> As M. Lucretius Agricola points out below there are many
> reenactment and latin groups that I'm sure you would find more
> congenial to your tastes & beliefs.
>
> bene valete in pacem deorum
> M. Hortensia Maior
> sacerdos Mentis
> Read about Dea Mens:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Mens
> Read about the Gods:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Category:Roman_Gods
>
> I find it shocking and offensive in the extreme
>> that anyone would suggest that it is something to be "put up with".
>> There are many other groups devoted to the study or Roman history,
>> Roman re-enactment or Latin, so I would have thought that "putting
> up"
>> with our non-Christian-ness would not have been necessary.""
>
> But Benedictus XVI's religion is a novaroman cultus.
> Vale

BB,
Warrior

Salve Varro;
we are a recognized religious organization in the U.S.! We should
rejoice in our gods our values our culture!
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis
---

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "philippe cardon"
<philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:

>
> "Salve:
>
> Nova Roma was founded as a religious organization, a religious and

educational organization. Such is in our constitution and our
incorporation papers.

>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus"
>
> so it is no problem
>
> varro
>

Avete quirites,     As a NR citizen Im very afraid  to read such words from an higher member of NR senate, his disappointment regarding a decision of the councils it might be right, however those matters have to be discuss into the right seat,and not in a mailing list. I would like to invite our Senator Saturninus to use appropriate way to resolve that matter. I do belive and trust his autority and experience in NR, and his decision of resign from NR its far worse than the problem he want to resolve with his protest.   Valete Marcus Apuleius Maritimus --- Lun 14/7/08, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> ha scritto: Da: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> Oggetto: AW: [Nova-Roma] Resignation from the Senate committee, appeal for an appointment of a dictator A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Lunedì 14 luglio 2008, 19:04 Salvete Quirites,   what is ongoing with our res publica ? What is going wrong if one of our cornerstones of our Republic, Senator Saturninus, threatens to resign even from Nova Roma ?   I am worried which direction we will go .   I must say that I am as well was shocked to see a proposal for vote for the senate for nearly 50% of our state treasuery going to be spent for just one item, for the scholarship project. I expect and do ask our Consul Marcus.Horatius to clearly state that we have either mistaken the approach or at least provaide nyhow a very good explanation to invest our money, your money quirites, in a scholarship project. Where is the benefit for our republic ? Where is the gain ? Does this money invested in a scholarship project help us in reaching our fundamental goals ? To become a true republic, with land and an religiuos center for the Religio Romana ? I doubt it .   For the benefit of argument I will add my proposal I had provided earlier how to spend the money:   So here is my - maybe - unorthodox approach, but it does for sure have merits.   If I am correct we have about 22.000,- USD available or at least to plan for, so I would arrange the NR financies as follows, if the money available is less just deduct it proportionallly form the amaounts listed:   1) Citizen Certificate of our state Nova Roma     At least for Citizens with Assidui Status, thus following the wishes of several Citizens who had requested this     before , as well as promoting the assidui status and thus gathering  more taxes.        1.000.- USD  for the setup of the official NR Certificate and any related costs, as a start.         Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 5% for the years to come   2) Fund for projects       5.000.- USD as a start.      Senate decision for projects receiving a portion of the fund, which will then be provided to the projects    under the supervision of the Quaestor Curulis.     Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 15% for the years to come     3) Citizen Prize      as recognition  for the best achievement for pushing Nova Roma forward to our final goals. For ideas , projects,   making Nova Roma known in the world in a positive sense.    1.500,- USD as a start for 3 years. The prize will be 500 USD per year.   Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 10% for the years to come   4) Public Relation Fund     For sponsoring Roman days worldwide, make Nova Roma known and in result the possibility of receiving donations.   3.000,- USD as a start.   Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 10% for the years to come   5) Conventus fund   Subsiding Conventus NR worldwide, thus promoting Conventus and meeting of Nova Roman citizen.   3.000,- USD as a start.   Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 15% for the years to come   6) Reserve fund   for the unpredictable and for building up the treasury, future generations will thank us. A strong treasury will enable us to deal with all upcoming issues and it will strenghten our reputation.   2.500,- USD as a start    Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 15% for the years to come     7) Land fund   When investing the money and buying the right land, it will for sure grow in value and it will bring us closer to one of our real goals, becoming an  truly independent, sovereign res publica.   2.500,- USD as a start   Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 15% for the years to come   8) JSTOR   If really needed in an already online world, where nearly everything is online and available already. I have my doubts.I would rather like to see it spent accross all the other beforehand listed points.   3.000,- USD as a start   Portion devoted from the yearly tax income 10% for the years to come       I am concinced the citizens would like to see their taxes well invested ,in the sense to promote Nova Roma and  to bring us closer to our final real goals, becoming a truly independent republic , with land and with an religious center for the Religio Romana.   Optime vale Titus Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma   ----- Ursprüngliche Mail --- Von: C. Curius Saturninus <c.curius@academiath ules.org> An: NRSenateBudgetCommi ttee@yahoogroups .com CC: SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups.. com; novaromaeurope@ yahoogroups. com; nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com Gesendet: Montag, den 14. Juli 2008, 19:45:50 Uhr Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Resignation from the Senate committee, appeal for an appointment of a dictator Salvete omnes, Unfortunately the situation is that I cannot continue to chair the Senate financial committee or take part into it any more. The reason is that the consul has presented an item for the Senate to vote to spend practically all our available money on a Scholarship fuck-up project and I cannot accept such stupidity nor put my name into any budget that would approve such idiocy. I'm terrified to see something as outrageous as this from a person whom I still trusted to be quite reasonable fellow, despite his dereliction of duties in Academia Thules and some very strange things he has done and planned to do in the future. It seems that I have been greatly mistaken regarding him and I urge every member of the Senate committee to resign because he is using the Senate to make decision about the budget instead of using this committee for planning of the budget. Ask yourself that can you work in such an environment. Furthermore I will most probably will have to resign from the Senate since I cannot as a Senator take responsibility of such a decision if it voted yes upon. I will also seriously consider of leaving NR for I could not be with good consciousness a member or a citizen of a community that makes such a decision. I have already resigned from consular cohors because such an item was presented there for the next Senate meeting, so I can only assure to everyone that I have had nothing whatsoever to do with the presenting an item as irresponsbile as this for the Senate to vote. I ask the Senate to appoint Consul Sabinus or Princeps Senatus Quintilianus as an dictator to solve this matter in reasonable way. If that is impossible, I urge all Senators to either vote no for the proposal or to resign from the Senate and form a new Senate to overthrow such a consul who is destroying our financial basis by his apparent stupidity and lack of reason. He must be mad or is willingly attacking against our state with the aim to destroy it. Valete and farewell, C. Curius Saturninus (Mikko Sillanpää) Senator - Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Thules Rector Academia Thules ad Studia Romana Antiqua et Nova e-mail: c.curius@academiath ules.org www.academiathules. org thule..novaroma. org Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang.

---

Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina
Crea l'home page che piace a te!.

 A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


G. Petronius Dexter Hortensiae Maiori SPD,

> I too find Scholastica's words offensive. Nova Roma is one of the
> few pagan organizations that permits non-pagans to join. If you
find
> Nova Roma's devotion to the gods something to be 'put up with'

My native language is French and of course I do not understand all
the subtilities of this new War of Religions (In France during the
centuries XVI and XVII we knew the war between Catholics with the
Kings and the Protestants with several Princes and the horrific St
Barthelemy day, August 24th 1572!) but is not usual to the Ancient
Romans. Because we are polytheists we can believe in all gods and
respect all the religions...

But as supra I said my language native is not English and I have to
confess that I do not understand this "put up with" met with harsh
reception.

    ATS:  I suspect that it is not so much the expression itself as the idea that any of us Roman citizens might find the RR something to be endured.  As I noted, several persons misread my comments; I was referring to potential citizens who happen to be Latinists, and as such, many are in fact Christian.  Word has it that the pope is a fine Latinist, though I very much doubt that he, or the Vatican’s chief Latinist, Father Foster, is even remotely interested in joining NR.  

    Here in NR, there are those among the polytheists often seem to think that the monotheists are out to get them, and lose no opportunity to sharpen their tongues and swords at the remotest hint that such might be the case.  Rarely is this the case, but some just like to fight.  

Cura ut valeas.

G. Petronius Dexter.

Et tu!

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56948;

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Ave Varro,

> .c'est mon cas aussi même si une de mes grands-mères était anglaise
> il y a beaucoup d'expressions qui m'échappent.

Malheureusement, je n'ai pas de grand-mère Anglaise ou anglo-phone.
J'ai appris l'anglais au lycée, autrement dit, je n'ai que des bases
assez maigres. Pour me forcer à pratiquer l'anglais j'ai acheté
quelques livres en anglais comme Harry Potter and the Philosopher's
Stone. Je pensais qu'un bon ouvrage pour enfants devait être de mon
niveau de compréhension...

Infortunately, I do not have a British granny or speaking English. I
learned English language at school, in other words, I only have the  
very basic knowledges of. To practice this language, I bought some
English books like Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. I thought
that a good handiwork for children may be on my level of
understanding...

    ATS:  Mais vous parlez Anglais très bien.  
 
> à propos de "put up with" on pourrait dire "il faut faire avec"

Merci. J'ai été impressionné par la longue réponse de M. Piscinus fort
bien tournée et tout de même intelligible pour moi.

Thank you. I have been impressed by the long answer of M. Piscinus very
handsome and I could understand.  

    ATS:  Piscinus has given us quite a language lesson, as have several others.  It’s nice to see French linguistic discussions here, too...good practice for those of us who read it, if not write or speak it.  I had French in school, and was very, very good at it, but it has been a long, long time.  

> d'où es-tu?

Je vis à Arcueil, au sud de Paris, de l'autre côté du périph' par Porte
d'Orléans.

Vale.

Dexter.

Vale, et valete.  

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56948;

 A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Vibio Novello quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Salvete,

As a new citizen, I do have to agree with Scholastica that many people are misreading his comments.  

    ATS:  Thank you for your support.  As Modianus noted, however, I am not a he, but a she, in this overwhelmingly male organization.  I am one of the few women here who moreover is an active citizen, and am a senior Latinist who teaches at the Academia Thules.  Most names ending in -a are feminine, but some are not (Scaevola, Scaeva, Agricola), which are normally masculine, but may also be feminine, and some are always unisex, such as Maior (we have two active citizens with this cognomen, one male, and one female).  If the nomen also ends in -a, the person is a woman, but if it ends in -us, the person is male.  


Simply using the phrase "put up with" does not mean he was acting in a disrespectful manner towards the Religio Romana.  It is not disrespectful to acknowledge that there are people who disrespect your group, be it religious or otherwise.  

    ATS:  Of course not.  

There is nothing to be gained in refusing to acknowledge the existence of your detractors, and, though not true in this case, there are times where there is something to be learned and improved upon from the reasons for your criticism.

    ATS:  Indeed.  

 The fact of the matter is that much of the world is so entrenched in dogma that they look down on any who do not follow the same religion as them, even more so when the religion exists beyond the mainstream (and misunderstandings of the word "cult" do not help the matter).  This causes a greater problem due to the fact that most modern use of Latin is by the Roman Catholic church.  

    ATS:  To be sure, but there now are Circuli Latini, in which people gather to speak (yes, speak) Latin over a meal, and several Conventicula, in which participants are immersed in spoken Latin.  Our Avitus teaches courses at the Academia Thules which are geared to producing fluency in spoken (as well as written) Latin, and as an expert on neologisms who is writing a book in Latin on the history of Latin vocabulary, is a very valuable asset to both the Academia and Nova Roma.  We would do well to keep him here and at the AT.  

Given the status quo of the world, it is my personal judgment that the words of Scholastica do not impugn the Religion Romana, but are instead high praise for the tolerance of Avitus.

    ATS:  Of course my words do not impugn the RR.  As for Avitus, he does not tolerate much, but if one practices laissez-faire with him and does not force him to participate in religion, he seems to tolerate all forms thereof.  

I am concerned that these comments will paint me in a negative light, particularly since this is my first post and I am taking a stand against many of our political and religious magistrates.  However, I find the charges leveled again Scholastica entirely unjust and unfounded, thus I feel it is my obligation to speak against them.

    ATS:  Thank you again for your support.  For whatever reason, I am often misunderstood here, notably by the cultores.  As I noted above, I am one of the very few women here, and of the far fewer active women here, as well as the only woman teaching at the Academia.  That, and the fact that I am a classicist and do not practice the Religio give me a little different perspective.  

Valete,

Quintus Vibius Novellus

Vale, et valete.  
 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56971;

A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Majori quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Maior Gallis spd;
 Bien dit mes amis;
 Moi - je suis francophone,

    ATS:  Née à Nouvelle-York...


écrivons-nous en Francais [bete! mon
clavier manque les accents circonflex et la cédille]

    ATS:  Le mien n’en manque pas.  Ç î  (hoping that I have not committed too many crimes against French).  

La Scholastica se deplait que ses amies fort chrétiens et pretres [de
clérge catholique]  ne pouvent pas joindre Nova Roma á cause de notre
état paien: ´mos, je dis 'tant pis pour elle; bien pour nous.'

    ATS:  Comme souvent, vous avez tort.  On many points.  We should welcome those who are interested in les choses Romaines et le Latin.   In any case, my reference was to a potential replacement for Avitus, should he leave, not to anyone else.  


Qui
veut ces types comme membres de Nova Roma? Notre chère moraliste
déteste Martial, le dieu priape et tous choses contre son culte
puritanique.

    ATS:  It might help you if you thought about Minerva and Diana more, and Priapus less.  

    Have you read Consul Piscinus’ comments about the wide range of ages and other background features of the members of this list, or are you simply ignoring good sense?  Do you have a clue as to what is appropriate for such a wide audience?  


 M. Hortensia Maior
 sacerdos Mentis

> dexter
>
> j'ai grandi à la Butte Montmartre mais après un long périple je
tiens un resto dans le Jura vers Saint-Claude
>
> Vale
> Varro
>

 Valete.  
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56948;

G. Petronius Dexter A. Tulliae Scholasticae et omnibus legentibus
S.P.D.

> > ATS: I suspect that it is not so much the expression itself

as the idea

> > that any of us Roman citizens might find the RR something to be

endured. As I

> > noted, several persons misread my comments; I was referring to

potential

> > citizens who happen to be Latinists, and as such, many are in

fact Christian.

> > Word has it that the pope is a fine Latinist, though I very much

doubt that

> > he, or the Vatican¹s chief Latinist, Father Foster, is even

remotely

> > interested in joining NR.

You are right, of course. The pope and the prelates of the Catholic
Church do not be members of any pagan organisation. But outstanding
latinists are educated at school. A good job, a good goal for you and
for Avitus, who teach the Latin, to form latinists into NR.

Latin is not just the Catholic language, is not just the Vatican's
language, it is an universal language learned everywhere, in all the
world countries, and I, who am not member of the Catholic church,
easily write and read Latin. But fortunately I am not the only one.

Sursum corda !

Cura ut valeas.

G.Dexter.

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Neptunus Salaciaque vos ament

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies comitialis
est: Ludi Victoriae Caesaris; Sol in Leonem transitum facit, Favonius

AUC 707 / 46 BCE Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Upward gazing, do you mark
the ancient risings of the Signs? for look
where Dionean Caesar's star comes forth
in heaven, to gladden all the fields with corn,
and to the grape upon the sunny slopes
her colour bring! ~ Vergil, Eclogue 9.46-49

Begun in 46 BCE to celebrate the victory of Julius Caesar over
Pomeius Magnus at Pharsalus, these games originally honored Venus
Genetrix. After the assassination of Caesar in March, the Ludi
Victoriae Caesaris took on a different significance. During the
games 44 BCE the comet of Caesar (Halley-Bopp) arrived. Comets were
taken by the masses to be omens of dire events (Manilius,
Astronomicon 1.874: fati miseratus). This comet was considered
especially significant as it could be seen during the day. But
Augustus reversed common understanding. He claimed that the comet
was the genius of Caesar ascending to the Gods. Again in 18 BCE,
when another comet was seen during the Ludi Caesaris, Augustus was to
declare that it was the divine Caesar returned to view the games held
in his honor.

"Never more than then from skies all cloudless fell the thunderbolts,
nor blazed so oft the comet fire of bale." ~ P. Vergilius Maro,
Georgic 1.486-487

It isn't quite clear in what month the comet arrived. Did it arrive
during Caesar's funeral games? Or was it during the games for Venus
Genetrix that the comet arrived? These games for Venus were normally
held in the fall. But then the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris of
Quintilius, the month of Caesar's birth, were also originally offered
to Venus Genetrix, too. From what Pliny has to say, the games of
Venus, held so soon after Caesar's death, would not seem to indicate
his funeral games, while the traditional games for Her in autumn are
probably too distant in time. But all of the symbolism placed on the
appearance of this hairy star would seem today to have better suited
the games of July.

"Rome is the only place in the whole world where there is a temple
dedicated to a comet; it was thought by the late Emperor Augustus to
be auspicious to him, from its appearing during the games which he
was celebrating in honour of Venus Genetrix, not long after the death
of his father Cæsar, in the College which was founded by him. He
expressed his joy in these terms: 'During the very time of these
games of mine, a hairy star was seen during seven days, in the part
of the heavens which is under the Great Bear. It rose about the
eleventh hour of the day (circa 5:00 PM) , was very bright, and was
conspicuous in all parts of the earth. The common people supposed the
star to indicate, that the soul of Cæsar was admitted among the
immortal Gods; under which designation it was that the star was
placed on the bust which was lately consecrated in the forum.' This
is what he proclaimed in public, but, in secret, he rejoiced at this
auspicious omen, interpreting it as produced for himself; and, to
confess the truth, it really proved a salutary omen for the world at
large." ~ Plinius Secunda, Historia Naturalis 2.23 (93)


AUC 817 / 64 CE: The Great Fire of Rome continued into its third day

"Nero at this time was at Antium, and did not return to Rome until
the fire approached his house, which he had built to connect the
palace with the gardens of Mæcenas. It could not, however, be stopped
from devouring the palace, the house, and everything around it.
However, to relieve the people, driven out homeless as they were, he
threw open to them the Campus Martius and the public buildings of
Agrippa, and even his own gardens, and raised temporary structures to
receive the destitute multitude. Supplies of food were brought up
from Ostia and the neighbouring towns, and the price of corn was
reduced to three sesterces a peck. These acts, though popular,
produced no effect, since a rumour had gone forth everywhere that, at
the very time when the city was in flames, the emperor appeared on a
private stage and sang of the destruction of Troy, comparing present
misfortunes with the calamities of antiquity." ~ P. Cornelius
Tacitus, Annales 15.39


AUC 397 / 356 BCE: Birth of Alexander the Great

It is not by coincidence that the start of the Ludi Victoriae
Caesaris should fall on the birthday of Alexander the Great. Caesar
sought to overshadow the Macedonian King. Alexander's accomplishments
were greatly admired by his contemporaries in the West, justifying
Livy's longest digression

"The mention, however, of so great a king and commander induces me to
lay before my readers some reflections which I have often made when I
have proposed to myself the question, 'What would have been the
results for Rome if she had been engaged in war with Alexander?' The
things which tell most in war are the numbers and courage of the
troops, the ability of the commanders, and Fortune, who has such a
potent influence over human affairs, especially those of war. Any one
who considers these factors either separately or in combination will
easily see that as the Roman empire proved invincible against other
kings and nations, so it would have proved invincible against
Alexander. Let us, first of all, compare the commanders on each side.
I do not dispute that Alexander was an exceptional general, but his
reputation is enhanced by the fact that he died while still young and
before he had time to experience any change of fortune. Not to
mention other kings and illustrious captains, who afford striking
examples of the mutability of human affairs, I will only instance
Cyrus, whom the Greeks celebrate as one of the greatest of men. What
was it that exposed him to reverses and misfortunes but the length of
his life, as recently in the case of Pompey the Great? Let me
enumerate the Roman generals-not all out of all ages but only those
with whom as consuls and Dictators Alexander would have had to fight-
M. Valerius Corvus, C. Marcius Rutilus, C. Sulpicius, T. Manlius
Torquatus, Q. Publilius Philo, L. Papirius Cursor, Q. Fabius Maximus,
the two Decii, L. Volumnius, and Manlius Curius. Following these come
those men of colossal mould who would have confronted him if he had
first turned his arms against Carthage and then crossed over into
Italy later in life. Every one of these men was Alexander's equal in
courage and ability, and the art of war, which from the beginning of
the City had been an unbroken tradition, had now grown into a science
based on definite and permanent rules. It was thus that the kings
conducted their wars, and after them the Junii and the Valerii, who
expelled the kings, and in later succession the Fabii, the Quinctii,
and the Cornelii. It was these rules that Camillus followed, and the
men who would have had to fight with Alexander had seen Camillus as
an old man when they were little more than boys.

"Alexander no doubt did all that a soldier ought to do in battle, and
that is not his least title to fame. But if Manlius Torquatus had
been opposed to him in the field, would he have been inferior to him
in this respect, or Valerius Corvus, both of them distinguished as
soldiers before they assumed command? Would the Decii, who, after
devoting themselves, rushed upon the enemy, or Papirius Cursor with
his vast physical courage and strength? Would the clever generalship
of one young man have succeeded in baffling the whole senate, not to
mention individuals, that senate of which he, who declared that it
was composed of kings, alone formed a true idea? Was there any danger
of his showing more skill than any of those whom I have mentioned in
choosing the site for his camp, or organising his commissariat, or
guarding against surprises, or choosing the right moment for giving
battle, or disposing his men in line of battle and posting his
reserves to the best advantage? He would have said that it was not
with Darius that he had to do, dragging after him a train of women
and eunuchs, wrapped up in purple and gold, encumbered with all the
trappings of state. He found him an easy prey rather than a
formidable enemy and defeated him without loss, without being called
to do anything more daring than to show a just contempt for the idle
show of power. The aspect of Italy would have struck him as very
different from the India which he traversed in drunken revelry with
an intoxicated army; he would have seen in the passes of Apulia and
the mountains of Lucania the traces of the recent disaster which
befell his house when his uncle Alexander, King of Epirus, perished.

"I am speaking of Alexander as he was before he was submerged in the
flood of success, for no man was less capable of bearing prosperity
than he was. If we look at him as transformed by his new fortunes and
presenting the new character, so to speak, which he had assumed after
his victories, it is evident he would have come into Italy more like
Darius than Alexander, and would have brought with him an army which
had forgotten its native Macedonia and was rapidly becoming Persian
in character. It is a disagreeable task in the case of so great a man
to have to record his ostentatious love of dress; the prostrations
which he demanded from all who approached his presence, and which the
Macedonians must have felt to be humiliating, even had they been
vanquished, how much more when they were victors; the terribly cruel
punishments he inflicted; the murder of his friends at the banquet-
table; the vanity which made him invent a divine pedigree for
himself. What, pray, would have happened if his love of wine had
become stronger and his passionate nature more violent and fiery as
he grew older? I am only stating facts about which there is no
dispute. Are we to regard none of these things as serious drawbacks
to his merits as a commander? Or was there any danger of that
happening which the most frivolous of the Greeks, who actually extol
the Parthians at the expense of the Romans, are so constantly harping
upon, namely, that the Roman people must have bowed before the
greatness of Alexander's name-though I do not think they had even
heard of him-and that not one out of all the Roman chiefs would have
uttered his true sentiments about him, though men dared to attack him
in Athens, the very city which had been shattered by Macedonian arms
and almost well in sight of the smoking ruins of Thebes, and the
speeches of his assailants are still extant to prove this?

"However lofty our ideas of this man's greatness, still it is the
greatness of one individual, attained in a successful career of
little more than ten years. Those who extol it on the ground that
though Rome has never lost a war she has lost many battles, whilst
Alexander has never fought a battle unsuccessfully, are not aware
that they are comparing the actions of one individual, and he a
youth, with the achievements of a people who have had 800 years of
war. Where more generations are reckoned on one side than years on
the other, can we be surprised that in such a long space of time
there have been more changes of fortune than in a period of thirteen
years ? Why do you not compare the fortunes of one man with another,
of one commander with another? How many Roman generals could I name
who have never been unfortunate in a single battle! You may run
through page after page of the lists of magistrates, both consuls and
Dictators, and not find one with whose valour and fortunes the Roman
people have ever for a single day had cause to be dissatisfied. And
these men are more worthy of admiration than Alexander or any other
king. Some retained the Dictatorship for only ten or twenty days;
none held a consulship for more than a year; the levying of troops
was often obstructed by the tribunes of the plebs; they were late, in
consequence, in taking the field, and were often recalled before the
time to conduct the elections; frequently, when they were commencing
some important operation, their year of office expired; their
colleagues frustrated or ruined their plans, some through
recklessness, some through jealousy; they often had to succeed to the
mistakes or failures of others and take over an army of raw recruits
or one in a bad state of discipline. Kings are free from all
hindrances; they are lords of time and circumstance, and draw all
things into the sweep of their own designs. Thus, the invincible
Alexander would have crossed swords with invincible captains, and
would have given the same pledges to Fortune which they gave. Nay, he
would have run greater risks than they, for the Macedonians had only
one Alexander, who was not only liable to all sorts of accidents but
deliberately exposed himself to them, whilst there were many Romans
equal to Alexander in glory and in the grandeur of their deeds, and
yet each of them might fulfil his destiny by his life or by his death
without imperiling the existence of the State.

"It remains for us to compare the one army with the other as regards
either the numbers or the quality of the troops or the strength of
the allied forces. Now the census for that period gives 250,000
persons. In all the revolts of the Latin league ten legions were
raised, consisting almost entirely of city troops. Often during those
years four or five armies were engaged simultaneously in Etruria, in
Umbria (where they had to meet the Gauls as well), in Samnium, and in
Lucania. Then as regards the attitude of the various Italian tribes-
the whole of Latium with the Sabines, Volscians, and Aequi, the whole
of Campania, parts of Umbria and Etruria, the Picentines, the Marsi,
and Paeligni, the Vestinians and Apulians, to which we should add the
entire coast of the western sea, with its Greek population,
stretching from Thurii to Neapolis and Cumae, and from there as far
as Antium and Ostia-all these nationalities he would have found to be
either strong allies of Rome or reduced to impotence by Roman arms.
He would have crossed the sea with his Macedonian veterans, amounting
to not more than 30,000 men and 4000 cavalry, mostly Thracian. This
formed all his real strength. If he had brought over in addition
Persians and Indians and other Orientals, he would have found them a
hindrance rather than a help. We must remember also that the Romans
had a reserve to draw upon at home, but Alexander, warring on a
foreign soil, would have found his army diminished by the wastage of
war, as happened afterwards to Hannibal. His men were armed with
round shields and long spears, the Romans had the large shield called
the scutum, a better protection for the body, and the javelin, a much
more effective weapon than the spear whether for hurling or
thrusting. In both armies the soldiers fought in line rank by rank,
but the Macedonian phalanx lacked mobility and formed a single unit;
the Roman army was more elastic, made up of numerous divisions, which
could easily act separately or in combination as required. Then with
regard to fatigue duty, what soldier is better able to stand hard
work than the Roman?

"If Alexander had been worsted in one battle the war would have been
over; what army could have broken the strength of Rome, when Caudium
and Cannae failed to do so? Even if things had gone well with him at
first, he would often have been tempted to wish that Persians and
Indians and effeminate Asiatics were his foes, and would have
confessed that his former wars had been waged against women, as
Alexander of Epirus is reported to have said when after receiving his
mortal wound he was comparing his own fortune with that of this very
youth in his Asiatic campaigns. When I remember that in the first
Punic war we fought at sea for twenty-four years, I think that
Alexander would hardly have lived long enough to see one war through.
It is quite possible, too, that as Rome and Carthage were at that
time leagued together by an old-standing treaty, the same
apprehensions might have led those two powerful states to take up
arms against the common foe, and Alexander would have been crushed by
their combined forces. Rome has had experience of a Macedonian war,
not indeed when Alexander was commanding nor when the resources of
Macedon were still unimpaired, but the contests against Antiochus,
Philip, and Perses were fought not only without loss but even without
risk. I trust that I shall not give offence when I say that, leaving
out of sight the civil wars, we have never found an enemy's cavalry
or infantry too much for us, when we have fought in the open field,
on ground equally favourable for both sides, still less when the
ground has given us an advantage. The infantry soldier, with his
heavy armour and weapons, may reasonably fear the arrows of Parthian
cavalry, or passes invested by the enemy, or country where supplies
cannot be brought up, but he has repulsed a thousand armies more
formidable than those of Alexander and his Macedonians, and will
repulse them in the future if only the domestic peace and concord
which we now enjoy remains undisturbed for all the years to come." ~
Titus Livius 9.17-19


Ante Urbem Condita 509 / 1262 BCE: The Founding of the Pythian Games
and the embarkation of Jason and the Argonauts.


Our thought for today is more of a prayer and a reminder too that
sometimes one must simply cast your fate to the winds and trust in
the Gods. Here the example is the prayer of Jason, taken from
Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 4.674-5:

"Whosoever You may be among the Gods, I shall follow wherever You may
lead, in faithful trust that You do not deceive."

G. Petronius Dexter M. Moravio Piscino cultoribus Deorum omnibusque
salutem plurimam dicit,

> AUC 397 / 356 BCE: Birth of Alexander the Great

His birthday is on july 21th, tomorrow, the same day (July 21th 356
BC) "A young man called Herostratus set fire to the Temple of Artemis
in Ephesus, one of the Seven Wonders of the World." (Wikipedia)

Di, Moravi, te ament !

Dexter.

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

G. Petronius Dexter A. Tulliae Scholasticae et omnibus legentibus
S.P.D.

> >     ATS:  I suspect that it is not so much the expression itself
as the idea
> > that any of us Roman citizens might find the RR something to be
endured.  As I
> > noted, several persons misread my comments; I was referring to
potential
> > citizens who happen to be Latinists, and as such, many are in
fact Christian.
> > Word has it that the pope is a fine Latinist, though I very much
doubt that
> > he, or the Vatican’s chief Latinist, Father Foster, is even
remotely
> > interested in joining NR.

You are right, of course. The pope and the prelates of the Catholic
Church do not be members of any pagan organisation.

    ATS2:  Some, however, are more liberal than others, and might be willing if they are truly interested in ancient Rome.  However, some in NR consider it their divine duty to insult Christians and others, and drive them out if possible, for they are thinking only of themselves, and not of the good of the organization as a whole.  Many Latinists are Catholic, or Christian, but neither they nor any sensible person would put up with the irrational responses shown here of late.  


But outstanding
latinists are educated at school. A good job, a good goal for you and
for Avitus, who teach the Latin, to form latinists into NR.

    ATS2:  And we are doing our best.  Avitus discusses his teaching at the AT in the Melissa article (which you may be able to obtain, as it is published in Belgium, and for sale in England), and I might do the same.   We already have a number of very fine Latinists here, though unfortunately several of them are not active; only Avitus, Lentulus, and I seem to be active.  Incidentally, it was nice to hear Lentulus’ voice chanting in Latin during the ritual at Novae; I even caught the word omnibus in one clip, and something on the order of propitii provinciae Pannoniae in another...

Latin is not just the Catholic language, is not just the Vatican's
language, it is an universal language learned everywhere, in all the
world countries, and I, who am not member of the Catholic church,
easily write and read Latin.

    ATS2:  Indeed, Latin is our common language, our supranational language, which all of us should learn.   If you want to speak Latin as well as read and write it, Sermo Latinus awaits you.  


But fortunately I am not the only one.

    ATS2:  No, you are not!  We have about 50 people here in Latinitas who can at least read Latin.  Some may not be willing to ‘fess up that they can, too...

Sursum corda !

    ATS2:  Habemus ad dominam!  (linguam Latinam...)

Cura ut valeas.

    Et tu!

G.Dexter.

 ATS
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56948;

 A. Tullia Scholastica Stephano Vllerio Venatori quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Avete Omnes;

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 6:46 AM, marcushoratius wrote:
> Salve Gai Petroni
>
> [excision]... - and that Hedon Venator, the Barbarian - ...[excision]
>
> Vale optime
> M. Moravius Piscinus
>
I have not commented lately, my reasons being previously presented.
(I do thank one and all for their condolences and well-wishes).

    ATS:  and please accept my belated, but very sincere, condolences on the passing of your beloved uncle.  You seem to have had a very close relationship, and his passing has left a hole in your life.  Now you have but the precious memories, which I trust you will retain, and perhaps expand into some more of your lovely verses.  I append a suitable poem from an ancient source:  

    Multas per gentes et multa per aequora vectus/ advenio has miseras, frater, ad inferias/ ut te postremo donarem munere mortis/ et mutam nequiquam adloquerer cinerem/ quandoquidem fortuna tete abstulit ipsum/ heu, miser indigne frater adempte mihi. /  Nunc interea haec, prisco quae more parentum/ tradita sunt tristi munere ad inferias/ accipe fraterno multum manantia fletu, atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale.  

    Having traveled through many nations and many seas, I come to these wretched funeral rites, brother, so that I might present you with the last offering of death, and address in vain your silent ashes since fortune has snatched you yourself away from me, alas, brother, unjustly taken away from me.  Now in the mean time accept these things  which in the ancient custom of our forefathers have been handed over for funeral rites, abundantly dripping with a brother’s tears, and for eternity, brother, hail and farewell.  

<snip>


Here's to 10 more centuries of Nova Roma under the blessings of the
Deities of all her citizens.

    Vale.  

----- Original Message -----

From: marcushoratius

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:21 AM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] a. d. XIII Kal. Sext: Ludi Victoriae Caesaris, birth ofAlexander the Great

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Neptunus Salaciaque vos ament

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies comitialis
est: Ludi Victoriae Caesaris; Sol in Leonem transitum facit, Favonius

AUC 707 / 46 BCE Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Upward gazing, do you mark
the ancient risings of the Signs? for look
where Dionean Caesar's star comes forth
in heaven, to gladden all the fields with corn,
and to the grape upon the sunny slopes
her colour bring! ~ Vergil, Eclogue 9.46-49

Begun in 46 BCE to celebrate the victory of Julius Caesar over
Pomeius Magnus at Pharsalus, these games originally honored Venus
Genetrix. After the assassination of Caesar in March, the Ludi
Victoriae Caesaris took on a different significance. During the
games 44 BCE the comet of Caesar (Halley-Bopp) arrived. Comets were
taken by the masses to be omens of dire events (Manilius,
Astronomicon 1.874: fati miseratus). This comet was considered
especially significant as it could be seen during the day. But
Augustus reversed common understanding. He claimed that the comet
was the genius of Caesar ascending to the Gods. Again in 18 BCE,
when another comet was seen during the Ludi Caesaris, Augustus was to
declare that it was the divine Caesar returned to view the games held
in his honor.

"Never more than then from skies all cloudless fell the thunderbolts,
nor blazed so oft the comet fire of bale." ~ P. Vergilius Maro,
Georgic 1.486-487

It isn't quite clear in what month the comet arrived. Did it arrive
during Caesar's funeral games? Or was it during the games for Venus
Genetrix that the comet arrived? These games for Venus were normally
held in the fall. But then the Ludi Victoriae Caesaris of
Quintilius, the month of Caesar's birth, were also originally offered
to Venus Genetrix, too. From what Pliny has to say, the games of
Venus, held so soon after Caesar's death, would not seem to indicate
his funeral games, while the traditional games for Her in autumn are
probably too distant in time. But all of the symbolism placed on the
appearance of this hairy star would seem today to have better suited
the games of July.

"Rome is the only place in the whole world where there is a temple
dedicated to a comet; it was thought by the late Emperor Augustus to
be auspicious to him, from its appearing during the games which he
was celebrating in honour of Venus Genetrix, not long after the death
of his father Cæsar, in the College which was founded by him. He
expressed his joy in these terms: 'During the very time of these
games of mine, a hairy star was seen during seven days, in the part
of the heavens which is under the Great Bear. It rose about the
eleventh hour of the day (circa 5:00 PM) , was very bright, and was
conspicuous in all parts of the earth. The common people supposed the
star to indicate, that the soul of Cæsar was admitted among the
immortal Gods; under which designation it was that the star was
placed on the bust which was lately consecrated in the forum.' This
is what he proclaimed in public, but, in secret, he rejoiced at this
auspicious omen, interpreting it as produced for himself; and, to
confess the truth, it really proved a salutary omen for the world at
large." ~ Plinius Secunda, Historia Naturalis 2.23 (93)

AUC 817 / 64 CE: The Great Fire of Rome continued into its third day

"Nero at this time was at Antium, and did not return to Rome until
the fire approached his house, which he had built to connect the
palace with the gardens of Mæcenas. It could not, however, be stopped
from devouring the palace, the house, and everything around it.
However, to relieve the people, driven out homeless as they were, he
threw open to them the Campus Martius and the public buildings of
Agrippa, and even his own gardens, and raised temporary structures to
receive the destitute multitude. Supplies of food were brought up
from Ostia and the neighbouring towns, and the price of corn was
reduced to three sesterces a peck. These acts, though popular,
produced no effect, since a rumour had gone forth everywhere that, at
the very time when the city was in flames, the emperor appeared on a
private stage and sang of the destruction of Troy, comparing present
misfortunes with the calamities of antiquity." ~ P. Cornelius
Tacitus, Annales 15.39

AUC 397 / 356 BCE: Birth of Alexander the Great

It is not by coincidence that the start of the Ludi Victoriae
Caesaris should fall on the birthday of Alexander the Great. Caesar
sought to overshadow the Macedonian King. Alexander's accomplishments
were greatly admired by his contemporaries in the West, justifying
Livy's longest digression

"The mention, however, of so great a king and commander induces me to
lay before my readers some reflections which I have often made when I
have proposed to myself the question, 'What would have been the
results for Rome if she had been engaged in war with Alexander?' The
things which tell most in war are the numbers and courage of the
troops, the ability of the commanders, and Fortune, who has such a
potent influence over human affairs, especially those of war. Any one
who considers these factors either separately or in combination will
easily see that as the Roman empire proved invincible against other
kings and nations, so it would have proved invincible against
Alexander. Let us, first of all, compare the commanders on each side.
I do not dispute that Alexander was an exceptional general, but his
reputation is enhanced by the fact that he died while still young and
before he had time to experience any change of fortune. Not to
mention other kings and illustrious captains, who afford striking
examples of the mutability of human affairs, I will only instance
Cyrus, whom the Greeks celebrate as one of the greatest of men. What
was it that exposed him to reverses and misfortunes but the length of
his life, as recently in the case of Pompey the Great? Let me
enumerate the Roman generals-not all out of all ages but only those
with whom as consuls and Dictators Alexander would have had to fight-
M. Valerius Corvus, C. Marcius Rutilus, C. Sulpicius, T. Manlius
Torquatus, Q. Publilius Philo, L. Papirius Cursor, Q. Fabius Maximus,
the two Decii, L. Volumnius, and Manlius Curius. Following these come
those men of colossal mould who would have confronted him if he had
first turned his arms against Carthage and then crossed over into
Italy later in life. Every one of these men was Alexander's equal in
courage and ability, and the art of war, which from the beginning of
the City had been an unbroken tradition, had now grown into a science
based on definite and permanent rules. It was thus that the kings
conducted their wars, and after them the Junii and the Valerii, who
expelled the kings, and in later succession the Fabii, the Quinctii,
and the Cornelii. It was these rules that Camillus followed, and the
men who would have had to fight with Alexander had seen Camillus as
an old man when they were little more than boys.

"Alexander no doubt did all that a soldier ought to do in battle, and
that is not his least title to fame. But if Manlius Torquatus had
been opposed to him in the field, would he have been inferior to him
in this respect, or Valerius Corvus, both of them distinguished as
soldiers before they assumed command? Would the Decii, who, after
devoting themselves, rushed upon the enemy, or Papirius Cursor with
his vast physical courage and strength? Would the clever generalship
of one young man have succeeded in baffling the whole senate, not to
mention individuals, that senate of which he, who declared that it
was composed of kings, alone formed a true idea? Was there any danger
of his showing more skill than any of those whom I have mentioned in
choosing the site for his camp, or organising his commissariat, or
guarding against surprises, or choosing the right moment for giving
battle, or disposing his men in line of battle and posting his
reserves to the best advantage? He would have said that it was not
with Darius that he had to do, dragging after him a train of women
and eunuchs, wrapped up in purple and gold, encumbered with all the
trappings of state. He found him an easy prey rather than a
formidable enemy and defeated him without loss, without being called
to do anything more daring than to show a just contempt for the idle
show of power. The aspect of Italy would have struck him as very
different from the India which he traversed in drunken revelry with
an intoxicated army; he would have seen in the passes of Apulia and
the mountains of Lucania the traces of the recent disaster which
befell his house when his uncle Alexander, King of Epirus, perished.

"I am speaking of Alexander as he was before he was submerged in the
flood of success, for no man was less capable of bearing prosperity
than he was. If we look at him as transformed by his new fortunes and
presenting the new character, so to speak, which he had assumed after
his victories, it is evident he would have come into Italy more like
Darius than Alexander, and would have brought with him an army which
had forgotten its native Macedonia and was rapidly becoming Persian
in character. It is a disagreeable task in the case of so great a man
to have to record his ostentatious love of dress; the prostrations
which he demanded from all who approached his presence, and which the
Macedonians must have felt to be humiliating, even had they been
vanquished, how much more when they were victors; the terribly cruel
punishments he inflicted; the murder of his friends at the banquet-
table; the vanity which made him invent a divine pedigree for
himself. What, pray, would have happened if his love of wine had
become stronger and his passionate nature more violent and fiery as
he grew older? I am only stating facts about which there is no
dispute. Are we to regard none of these things as serious drawbacks
to his merits as a commander? Or was there any danger of that
happening which the most frivolous of the Greeks, who actually extol
the Parthians at the expense of the Romans, are so constantly harping
upon, namely, that the Roman people must have bowed before the
greatness of Alexander's name-though I do not think they had even
heard of him-and that not one out of all the Roman chiefs would have
uttered his true sentiments about him, though men dared to attack him
in Athens, the very city which had been shattered by Macedonian arms
and almost well in sight of the smoking ruins of Thebes, and the
speeches of his assailants are still extant to prove this?

"However lofty our ideas of this man's greatness, still it is the
greatness of one individual, attained in a successful career of
little more than ten years. Those who extol it on the ground that
though Rome has never lost a war she has lost many battles, whilst
Alexander has never fought a battle unsuccessfully, are not aware
that they are comparing the actions of one individual, and he a
youth, with the achievements of a people who have had 800 years of
war. Where more generations are reckoned on one side than years on
the other, can we be surprised that in such a long space of time
there have been more changes of fortune than in a period of thirteen
years ? Why do you not compare the fortunes of one man with another,
of one commander with another? How many Roman generals could I name
who have never been unfortunate in a single battle! You may run
through page after page of the lists of magistrates, both consuls and
Dictators, and not find one with whose valour and fortunes the Roman
people have ever for a single day had cause to be dissatisfied. And
these men are more worthy of admiration than Alexander or any other
king. Some retained the Dictatorship for only ten or twenty days;
none held a consulship for more than a year; the levying of troops
was often obstructed by the tribunes of the plebs; they were late, in
consequence, in taking the field, and were often recalled before the
time to conduct the elections; frequently, when they were commencing
some important operation, their year of office expired; their
colleagues frustrated or ruined their plans, some through
recklessness, some through jealousy; they often had to succeed to the
mistakes or failures of others and take over an army of raw recruits
or one in a bad state of discipline. Kings are free from all
hindrances; they are lords of time and circumstance, and draw all
things into the sweep of their own designs. Thus, the invincible
Alexander would have crossed swords with invincible captains, and
would have given the same pledges to Fortune which they gave. Nay, he
would have run greater risks than they, for the Macedonians had only
one Alexander, who was not only liable to all sorts of accidents but
deliberately exposed himself to them, whilst there were many Romans
equal to Alexander in glory and in the grandeur of their deeds, and
yet each of them might fulfil his destiny by his life or by his death
without imperiling the existence of the State.

"It remains for us to compare the one army with the other as regards
either the numbers or the quality of the troops or the strength of
the allied forces. Now the census for that period gives 250,000
persons. In all the revolts of the Latin league ten legions were
raised, consisting almost entirely of city troops. Often during those
years four or five armies were engaged simultaneously in Etruria, in
Umbria (where they had to meet the Gauls as well), in Samnium, and in
Lucania. Then as regards the attitude of the various Italian tribes-
the whole of Latium with the Sabines, Volscians, and Aequi, the whole
of Campania, parts of Umbria and Etruria, the Picentines, the Marsi,
and Paeligni, the Vestinians and Apulians, to which we should add the
entire coast of the western sea, with its Greek population,
stretching from Thurii to Neapolis and Cumae, and from there as far
as Antium and Ostia-all these nationalities he would have found to be
either strong allies of Rome or reduced to impotence by Roman arms.
He would have crossed the sea with his Macedonian veterans, amounting
to not more than 30,000 men and 4000 cavalry, mostly Thracian. This
formed all his real strength. If he had brought over in addition
Persians and Indians and other Orientals, he would have found them a
hindrance rather than a help. We must remember also that the Romans
had a reserve to draw upon at home, but Alexander, warring on a
foreign soil, would have found his army diminished by the wastage of
war, as happened afterwards to Hannibal. His men were armed with
round shields and long spears, the Romans had the large shield called
the scutum, a better protection for the body, and the javelin, a much
more effective weapon than the spear whether for hurling or
thrusting. In both armies the soldiers fought in line rank by rank,
but the Macedonian phalanx lacked mobility and formed a single unit;
the Roman army was more elastic, made up of numerous divisions, which
could easily act separately or in combination as required. Then with
regard to fatigue duty, what soldier is better able to stand hard
work than the Roman?

"If Alexander had been worsted in one battle the war would have been
over; what army could have broken the strength of Rome, when Caudium
and Cannae failed to do so? Even if things had gone well with him at
first, he would often have been tempted to wish that Persians and
Indians and effeminate Asiatics were his foes, and would have
confessed that his former wars had been waged against women, as
Alexander of Epirus is reported to have said when after receiving his
mortal wound he was comparing his own fortune with that of this very
youth in his Asiatic campaigns. When I remember that in the first
Punic war we fought at sea for twenty-four years, I think that
Alexander would hardly have lived long enough to see one war through.
It is quite possible, too, that as Rome and Carthage were at that
time leagued together by an old-standing treaty, the same
apprehensions might have led those two powerful states to take up
arms against the common foe, and Alexander would have been crushed by
their combined forces. Rome has had experience of a Macedonian war,
not indeed when Alexander was commanding nor when the resources of
Macedon were still unimpaired, but the contests against Antiochus,
Philip, and Perses were fought not only without loss but even without
risk. I trust that I shall not give offence when I say that, leaving
out of sight the civil wars, we have never found an enemy's cavalry
or infantry too much for us, when we have fought in the open field,
on ground equally favourable for both sides, still less when the
ground has given us an advantage. The infantry soldier, with his
heavy armour and weapons, may reasonably fear the arrows of Parthian
cavalry, or passes invested by the enemy, or country where supplies
cannot be brought up, but he has repulsed a thousand armies more
formidable than those of Alexander and his Macedonians, and will
repulse them in the future if only the domestic peace and concord
which we now enjoy remains undisturbed for all the years to come." ~
Titus Livius 9.17-19

Ante Urbem Condita 509 / 1262 BCE: The Founding of the Pythian Games
and the embarkation of Jason and the Argonauts.

Our thought for today is more of a prayer and a reminder too that
sometimes one must simply cast your fate to the winds and trust in
the Gods. Here the example is the prayer of Jason, taken from
Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 4.674-5:

"Whosoever You may be among the Gods, I shall follow wherever You may
lead, in faithful trust that You do not deceive."

__________ NOD32 3282 (20080719) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Cn. Lentulus sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus sal.


Quirites!


22nd of July is the feast of the dedication of the republican Concordia temple, this year this is our other feast regarding the ancient temple of Concordia in the Forum Romanum:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae

In the early days of Rome the the patricians and plebeians had joined to drive out the tyrannical kings and created the Old Roman Republic; but it quickly became a republic of the patricians who had all the wealth and power. The plebeians were barred from the Senate and other governmental and priestly offices, though they of course made up most of the army. In 494 BCE the plebeians had had enough, and, refusing to serve in the army anymore, deserted and camped out on a hill near the Anio River that they called the Mons Sacer, or the Sacred Mountain. The patricians, left defenseless, came to some kind of sense and reforms were instituted giving the plebeians more rights.

To commemorate the compromises worked out between patricians and plebeians, a temple to Concordia was built in the northwestern end of the Forum Romanum, backed up against the Capitoline Hill, near the Volcanal, a raised area that housed an altar to Vulcan. This temple was originally vowed in 367 BCE by the general Camillus and dedicated on July 22nd (which became Her festival) sometime afterwards. There was a statue of Victoria on its roof that was struck by lightning at one time; and the temple was restored in the 2nd century BCE.

We had already a feast this year because of the restoration and re-dedication of the same Concordia temple on the 16th January. 16th January which became the new dedication day of the temple, because it was again restored by the Emperor Tiberius, who reopened it on the 16th of January, 10 CE, dedicating it to Concordia Augusta, the "Harmony of the Imperial Family". This temple was of somewhat unusual proportions due to the constraints of the site, but it was accorded one of the most beautiful in Rome, as it was finely made and entirely faced in marble. In later times it served as a museum of sorts, and many famous works of art were housed there.

You can see the sacrifice made on 16th January, here:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29#SACRIFICIUM_CONCORDIAE_DIE_TEMPLI_CONCORDIAE_AUGUSTAE_ANNI_SACRI_X_NOVAE_ROMAE_CONDITAE

Now I invite you to make new offerings to Goddess Concordia on 22nd July, and to celebrate this day as a feast of peace, love, harmony and tolerance.

Send your prayers to my e-mail address so that they be placed on the Nova Roman Virtual temple of Concordia:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29

This temple symbolized the best of Rome.

Let's show now the best of ourselves.



Valete in Concordia!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilium Curulium P. Memmii Albucii et Sex. Lucilii Tutoris
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina.
Crea l'home page che piace a te!
www.yahoo.it/latuapagina

Salvete

FYI

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

>From: david meadows <rogueclassicist@...>
>Reply-To: Explorator-owner@yahoogroups.com
>To: explorator@yahoogroups.com, British archaeology discussion list
><BRITARCH@...>
>Subject: [Explorator] explorator 11.13
>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:25:01 -0400
>
>================================================================
>explorator 11.13 July 20, 2008
>================================================================
>Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
>hours from the time of publication.
>
>For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
>and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
>arrives otherwise!!!
>================================================================
>================================================================
>Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Donna Hurst, Edward Rockstein,
>John McMahon, Joseph Lauer, Mike Ruggeri, Richard C. Griffiths,
>Ross W. Sargent, and W. Richard Frahm for headses upses this week
>(as always hoping I have left no one out).
>
>... a quiet week
>================================================================
>EARLY HUMANS
>================================================================
>The problem of DNA contamination and early hominids:
>
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080715204741.htm
>http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002700
>
>On the acoustics of assorted caves:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080702-cave-paintings.html
>
>Item on cave art:
>
>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/06/23/080623fa_fact_thurman
>cf.: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/letters/2008/07/21/080721mama_mail3
>================================================================
>ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
>================================================================
>Evidence of early use of irrigation in Yemen:
>
>http://www.newkerala.com/one.php?action=fullnews&id=86866
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080716140918.htm
>
>Plans are afoot to rebuild an Egyptian boat found near the
>pyramids a while back:
>
>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9928765?source=rss
>http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/07/19/6208281-ap.html
>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008061124_apegyptancientboat.html
>http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1824608,00.html
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_ancient_boat_2
>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jkmbFophZH5NVfKiD_XTZ7pZVPDgD920TVT00
>http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jsHGQZ0zRD7NKFiQ4faIEvx9RaiQ
>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-boat20-2008jul20,0,3835672.story
>http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/culture/?id=27003
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080719/ap_on_sc/egypt_ancient_boat_1
>
>An overview of digs going on in Turkey:
>
>http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=147770&bolum=101
>
>Egyptology News Blog:
>
>http://egyptology.blogspot.com/
>
>Egyptology Blog:
>
>http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/
>
>Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:
>
>http://blog.ritmeyer.com/
>
>Paleojudaica:
>
>http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/
>
>Persepolis Fortification Archives:
>
>http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/
>
>Archaeologist at Large:
>
>http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
>================================================================
>ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
>================================================================
>An overviewish thing on the excavations at Sardis:
>
>http://www.zaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=147956&bolum=101
>
>Plenty of hype about some guys (somewhat unrealistic) plans to return
>chariot racing to Rome:
>
>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10521989
>http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2008-07-15_115220566.html
>http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,566242,00.html
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2302705/Roman-chariots-to-thunder-around-Circus-Maximus-once-more.html
>
>Nice photo of Jupiter over Ephesus (good wallpaper potential):
>
>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0807/EphesusHadrianus_pan.jpg
>
>More coverage of Phaistos Disk authenticity skepticism:
>
>http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/28092/american-archaeologist-doubts-authenticity-of-phaistos-disc/
>
>More on that ship-discus find:
>
>http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/1054353,CST-NWS-israel14.article
>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/13/ap/world/main4256748.shtml
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_ancient_relic_1
>http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2356863,00.html
>http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126823
>http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/109440.html
>http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215330955367&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
>http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/13/africa/ME-Israel-Ancient-Eye.php
>(clumsy ...)
>
>More on the ongoing threat to Pompeii:
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25735606/
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080718/lf_nm_life/italy_pompeii_dc_1
>http://www.reuters.com/article/inDepthNews/idUSL1848994520080718
>http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=8d3bed34-bfce-4e23-af76-eab100fb35ba
>http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKL1884748620080718
>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=ale.ebWSOpdg&refer=muse
>
>More coverage of the hippodrome in Olympia:
>
>http://en.rian.ru/world/20080715/114036407.html
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080714145253.htm
>http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2008/07/052.shtml
>http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?_rss=1&fuseaction=readrelease&releaseid=530881
>
>Recent reviews from BMCR:
>
>http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/recent.html
>
>Recent reviews from Scholia:
>
>http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/2008.htm
>
>Visit our blog:
>
>http://www.atrium-media.com/rogueclassicism
>
>Blegen Library News:
>
>http://blegen.blogspot.com/
>
>Mediterranean Archaeology:
>
>http://medarch.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
>================================================================
>Finds from various periods during bus station construction in
>Warwick:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/7513400.stm
>
>Interesting finds from Bulgaria:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/5b3tt5
>
>I suspect this Bayeux Tapestry conference is what was actually
>being hyped by the 'ownership dispute' a few weeks ago:
>
>http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/heritage/story/0,,2291107,00.html
>
>Update on the Stonehenge visitors' centre:
>
>http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/heritage/story/0,,2291084,00.html
>
>Archaeology in Europe Blog:
>
>http://www.archaeology.eu.com/weblog/index.html
>================================================================
>ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
>================================================================
>Remember that Cambodian temple at the centre of a border dispute
>last week? The dispute is growing:
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080720/wl_afp/cambodiathailandculturemilitary_080720042644
>http://news.scotsman.com/world/Troops-face-off-over-temple.4306208.jp
>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20080719-0532-cambodia-thailand-temple.html
>http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0719/p99s01-duts.html
>
>... and this week's threatened-by-tourists-site: Angkor:
>
>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-angkor20-2008jul20,0,4999267.story
>
>Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:
>
>http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/
>
>New Zealand Archaeology eNews:
>
>http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
>================================================================
>NORTH AMERICA
>================================================================
>Here's a bizarre twist/suggestion about the peopling of the
>Americas:
>
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080701193203.htm
>
>Archaeologists may have located the site of La Petite-Rochelle:
>
>http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=8d3bed34-bfce-4e23-af76-eab100fb35ba
>http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/news/article/358279
>
>Arrowhead find on a Massachusetts beach:
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080714/hl_nm/palestinians_israel_tuberculosis_dc_3
>http://www.sunjournal.com/story/274547-3/NewEnglandNews/Man_finds_ancient_arrowhead/
>http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1107187&srvc=rss
>
>Interesting stuff from a dig at St. Louis Cathedral (New Orleans):
>
>http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/07/16/6176166-ap.html
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080716/ap_on_re_us/cathedral_dig
>
>8000 b.p. (maybe) knife from Florida:
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25692018/
>http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/15/6000-year-old-knife-unearthed-safety-harbor-park/
>
>They're digging Crown Point Fort:
>
>http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080718/NEWS02/807180355/1003/NEWS02
>
>Civil War artifacts from the Harding House site (Tenn.):
>
>http://murfreesboropost.com/news.php?viewStory=12008
>
>Complaints about not finding enough in Bath:
>
>http://www.wdnweb.com/articles/2008/07/13/news/news02.txt
>================================================================
>CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
>================================================================
>PreColumbian mummies with ulcers:
>
>http://www.livescience.com/history/080714-mummy-ulcer.html
>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080714192606.htm
>http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?_rss=1&fuseaction=readrelease&releaseid=530730
>
>Nice feature (with video) of a Chancay mummy find:
>
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080717-new-mummy-missions.html
>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/photogalleries/peru-mummy-photos/index.html
>
>DNA is shedding light on Athapaskan migrations:
>
>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-07/uoia-ycs071508.php
>
>Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:
>
>http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri
>
>Ancient MesoAmerica News:
>
>http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
>================================================================
>OpEd thing on archaeological ethics:
>
>http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0715/1215940930850.html
>
>Pondering 1625 and New York:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/opinion/17thu4.html
>
>They've identified/confirmed the remains of the tsarevich:
>
>http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/l15195448-russia-tsar/
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/world/europe/17briefings-ROMANOVREMAI_BRF.html
>
>Stanley Fish on the Milton Symposium:
>
>http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/happy-birthday-milton/
>
>DNA connects German villagers with 'cave men' (Bronze Age, actually):
>
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4333514.ece
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/07/15/scidna115.xml
>
>Alnwick Gardens:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/garden/17northumberland.html
>
>Wikimania 2008:
>
>http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/wikipedia-goes-to-alexandria-home-of-other-great-reference-works/index.html
>
>More coverage of Jericho bones and TB research:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/sci/tech/7510334.stm
>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/16/2305738.htm
>http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24026038-30417,00.html
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jul/13/medicalresearch.health
>http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=1002211
>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=1002420
>See also http://www.news-medical.net/?id=40023
>http://www.israel21c.org/link.jsp?enDispWho=Articles^l2199&enZone=Health
>http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/l14578915-palestinians-israel-tuberculosis/
>http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?_rss=1&fuseaction=readrelease&releaseid=530871
>
>Interesting royal funeral in Bali:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/world/asia/16indo.html
>
>Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Lives of the Week:
>
>http://www.oxforddnb.com/public/lotw/
>
>Arts and Letters Daily:
>
>http://aldaily.com/
>
>Past Preservers:
>
>http://pastpreservers.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>DIG DIARIES/BLOGS
>================================================================
>[please send in suggestions! current digs only please!]
>
>Tel Kadesh:
>
>http://sitemaker.umich.edu/kelseymuseum.digdiary/read_our_blog
>
>Tel Dan:
>
>http://teldan.wordpress.com/
>
>Hopkins in Egypt Today:
>
>http://www.jhu.edu/egypttoday/index.html
>================================================================
>GENERAL MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
>================================================================
>About.com Archaeology:
>
>http://archaeology.about.com/
>
>Archaeorama:
>
>http://blogs.discovery.com/news_archaeorama/
>
>Archaeoblog:
>
>http://archaeoblog.blogspot.com/
>
>Archaeology Briefs:
>
>http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>CRIME BEAT
>================================================================
>Vandalism is a major problem at Nevada sites:
>
>http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=8680825
>
>Looting Matters:
>
>http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>NUMISMATICA
>================================================================
>The Darwin-Wallace medal:
>
>http://www.linnean.org/index.php?id=344
>
>Stewart Collection:
>
>http://www.rowan.edu/library/policies_services/special_collections/stewart.htm
>
>John Chapman's collection is up for sale:
>
>http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/11/2300747.htm
>
>Nice Victoria Cross collection is going on view:
>
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2270310/World's-largest-VC-collection-to-go-on-show.html
>
>Someone accidentally 'spent' some very valuable coins:
>
>http://hopelessutopian.com/2008/06/19/18-rare-coins-mistakenly-returned-to-general-circulation.aspx
>
>Ancient Coin Collecting:
>
>http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/
>
>Ancient Coins:
>
>http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/
>================================================================
>EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
>================================================================
>Hadrian:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/6rrjr8 (Telegraph)
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/article4338412.ece
>http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11745577
>http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=25203&int_modo=1
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/20/do2009.xml
>
>Muraqqa:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/arts/design/18mugh.html
>
>Tombs of Paestum:
>
>http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=25165
>
>Yeats:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/arts/design/20dwye.html
>
>Arts of Islam:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/world/europe/17briefings-LOUVRETOADDI_BRF.html
>
>Some interesting skeletons in the Museum of London:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/science/nature/7509348.stm
>
>Brooklyn Museum Fakes:
>
>http://www.nysun.com/arts/brooklyn-to-exhibit-fake-art/81900/
>
>Egyptian Revival:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/arts/design/11anti.html
>
>Andrea Riccio:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/arts/design/18voge.html
>
>Texas Collects Asia:
>
>http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/travel/5891852.html
>
>Brian Rose can add Director of the UPenn Museum to his CV:
>
>http://www.upenn.edu/almanac/volumes/v55/n01/Rose.html
>
>The Royal Academy of Arts in London has a new director of
>exhibitions:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/arts/17arts-MUSEUMNOTES_BRF.html
>
>Assorted auction news:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/arts/design/16crui.html
>
>Storing the art that doesn't fit in the museum:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/realestate/commercial/16art.html
>
>Interesting item on Regency furniture:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/arts/design/18anti.html
>
>More coverage of the AAMD guidelines for antiquities
>acquisition:
>
>http://www.theartnewspaper.com/article.asp?id=8076
>
>More coverage of Shelby White's returns:
>
>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aIACdZ7p1E6k&refer=muse
>================================================================
>OBITUARIES
>================================================================
>William T. Sanders:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/us/16sanders.html
>
>David H. Greene:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/books/15greene.html
>================================================================
>PODCASTS
>================================================================
>The Book and the Spade:
>
>http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm
>
>The Dig:
>
>http://www.thedigradio.com/
>
>Stone Pages Archaeology News:
>
>http://news.stonepages.com/
>
>Archaeologica Audio News:
>
>http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp
>================================================================
>EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
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Salve Varro;
of course I agree with you. But in all fairness I must point out
there is only one person fueling this entire unpleasant argument and
I don't think making many friends;-)
Remember the old saying 'don't feed the troll.'
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior

> dear marcellus
>
> in a stickly historical point of view I seeyour assertion as

historical revisionism

>
> "One of Romes greatest strengths was it's ability to recognise

other

> religious beliefs, and some times adapt to them. This wa true of

the Jewish

> faith as well as early Christians"
>
> I see perfectly well as an historian the poitions of the emperors

and intellectuals like pliny the youth who refused to do a space for
christians

>
> because when for some reasons Contantine believed he might do so,

one century latte pganism was forbidden!

>
> Christians are always sheeps where they are weak and wolfs when

they are strong

>
> they don't wat a space they want all the space
>
> varro
>
> p.s. i make me some ennemies by this post? well, come and discuss
>

Maior Galli spd;
allons nous vénérer le dieu Priape: joignez-nous comme
adoratrice, Scholastica;-)
Si vis esse satur, nostrum potes esse Priapum:
Ipsa licet rodas inguina, purus eris.

de la Priapeia 94.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/priap/prp94.htm
tua amica
Maior
pour les dieux; pour les déesses!

> > ATS: It might help you if you thought about Minerva and

Diana more, and

> > Priapus less.
> >
> > Have you read Consul Piscinus¹ comments about the wide range

of ages and

> > other background features of the members of this list, or are

you simply

> > ignoring good sense? Do you have a clue as to what is

appropriate for such a

> > wide audience?
> >
> >
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> > sacerdos Mentis
> >
> >> > dexter
> >> >
> >> > j'ai grandi à la Butte Montmartre mais après un long périple

je

> > tiens un resto dans le Jura vers Saint-Claude
> >> >
> >> > Vale
> >> > Varro
> >> >
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56948;
>

Salvete,

I'm assuming that I'm not the only person to be aware of this, but I
didn't notice it being posted to the ML.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080720/NEWS10/807200355&s=TimeStampDescending&page=1#pluckcomments

(From second paragraph under heading "Soldier loved Army life"...):

"His friends and teachers describe him as intellectual, curious. He
often had a book under his arm. He attended the University of Southern
Indiana, where he majored in history. Ancient Rome fascinated him. He
practiced the religion of Roman paganism. At his funeral, a banner hung
on the lectern. "SPQR," it said -- shorthand for the Latin "Senatus
Populusque Romanus," or the Senate and the people of Rome."

Valete,

T. IUL. CALVUS

Hello Wuffa. You sent me an email saying yes. So you are still willing to make me a charm to attract women. My phone number is 541-731-9465. My address is 1766 Jefferson street,Eugene,Oregon,97402. You said you needed a piece of paper with some words printed on it. Can the charm be made to attract females and males? --- On Tue, 2/27/07, wuffa2001 <magewuffa@...> wrote: From: wuffa2001 <magewuffa@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown) To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 5:41 PM by all it has been fun but as i can see now NR is over run with the Neo-pagans and all i guess i must quit the ML . i am NOT quiting NR anyone who wants me i will be in the back ally and RR lists and you can find me the the website under priests., Boni are not a defunct political faction. Marcus Cornelius Felix Sacerdos Templi Mercurius Primus Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia Marcus Cornelius Felix

Awesome.


DOUGLAS STEVENS wrote:

>
> Hello Wuffa. You sent me an email saying yes. So you are still willing
> to make me a charm to attract women. My phone number is 541-731-9465.
> My address is 1766 Jefferson street,Eugene,Oregon,97402. You said you
> needed a piece of paper with some words printed on it. Can the charm
> be made to attract females and males?
>
> --- On *Tue, 2/27/07, wuffa2001 /<magewuffa@...>/* wrote:
>
> From: wuffa2001 <magewuffa@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2007, 5:41 PM
>
> by all it has been fun but as i can see now NR is over run with the
> Neo-pagans and all i guess i must quit the ML .
> i am NOT quiting NR anyone who wants me i will be in the back ally and
> RR lists and you can find me the the website under priests.,
>
> Boni are not a defunct political faction.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
> Sacerdos Templi Mercurius
> Primus Sacerdotus Provincia America Boreoccidentalis
> House Priest Patrician Gens Cornelia
> Marcus Cornelius Felix
>
>
>

Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> writes:

> Being that he was a Roman pagan, is there any chance he was a
> citizen of Nova Roma?

I just checked. He was not.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salvete,
Truly one of our honored dead. May he feast in the halls of Mars and
Jupiter.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:45:00 -0400
Bryon Morrigan <bryon@...> wrote:

> Salvete,
>
> I'm assuming that I'm not the only person to be aware of this, but I
> didn't notice it being posted to the ML.
>
> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080720/NEWS10/807200355&s=TimeStampDescending&page=1#pluckcomments
>
> (From second paragraph under heading "Soldier loved Army life"...):
>
> "His friends and teachers describe him as intellectual, curious. He
> often had a book under his arm. He attended the University of Southern
> Indiana, where he majored in history. Ancient Rome fascinated him. He
> practiced the religion of Roman paganism. At his funeral, a banner hung
> on the lectern. "SPQR," it said -- shorthand for the Latin "Senatus
> Populusque Romanus," or the Senate and the people of Rome."
>
> Valete,
>
> T. IUL. CALVUS

BB,
Warrior

Salvete,

At this website, (http://www.wildhunt.org/blog.html) the blogger seems
to be _assuming_ that he was a member of NR, based on his religion.
There's a little more commentary there as well.

Valete,

T. IUL. CALVUS


Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus wrote:

> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Cn. Equitio Marino Omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> > I just checked. He was not [a citizen].
>
> Thank you for looking.
>
> This brings up a larger question. My brother was a US Civil War
> re-enactor for many years. One thing he would do was color/honor
> guards at newly-discovered graves of those who fought in the war.
> Sometimes they would find a grave, report its discovery to the family,
> assist in having a headstone provided, then do a 21-gun salute with
> flags and the like. He did it many dozens of times and said it was
> incredibly fulfilling and honorable.
>
> We have citizens who pass away for various reasons. If we learn of
> such a death, is there something Nova Roma can do? It could be simple,
> such as an official letter of condolence to the family, or it could be
> larger, such as a local allied re-enactment legio doing a short salute
> or a Religio Romana ritual being performed at the graveside.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Tucson, Arizona, US, America Austroccidentalis
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
>
>
>

Cn. Lentulus quaestor et sacerdos T. Iulio Calvo salutem dicit: Thank you very much, T. Iuli, for sharing this article with us. It is very important: Nova Roma is mentioned and counted as a serious organization. This is what we work for. As for the late Joseph A. Ford: he was a Nova Roman citizen and his Roman name was C. Popillius Strabo. He is our dead. I announce you Quirites: our fellow citizen, the young GAIUS POPILLIUS STRABO is dead while serving in the army. Rest in peace with the gods. Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Quaestor Consularis Leg. Pr. Pr. Pannoniae Sacerdos Concordiae Accensus et Scriba --- Lun 21/7/08, Bryon Morrigan <bryon@...> ha scritto: Da: Bryon Morrigan <bryon@...> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] I read this news article today, and thought I should pass it on... A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Lunedì 21 luglio 2008, 01:01 Salvete, At this website, (http://www.wildhunt .org/blog. html) the blogger seems to be _assuming_ that he was a member of NR, based on his religion. There's a little more commentary there as well. Valete, T. IUL. CALVUS Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus wrote: > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Cn. Equitio Marino Omnibusque S.P.D. > > > I just checked. He was not [a citizen]. > > Thank you for looking. > > This brings up a larger question. My brother was a US Civil War > re-enactor for many years. One thing he would do was color/honor > guards at newly-discovered graves of those who fought in the war. > Sometimes they would find a grave, report its discovery to the family, > assist in having a headstone provided, then do a 21-gun salute with > flags and the like. He did it many dozens of times and said it was > incredibly fulfilling and honorable. > > We have citizens who pass away for various reasons. If we learn of > such a death, is there something Nova Roma can do? It could be simple, > such as an official letter of condolence to the family, or it could be > larger, such as a local allied re-enactment legio doing a short salute > or a Religio Romana ritual being performed at the graveside. > > Vale, et valete. > > -- > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus > Tucson, Arizona, US, America Austroccidentalis > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com > > >

---

Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina
Crea l'home page che piace a te!.

SIT TERRA LEVIS




Cn. Cornelius Lentulus escribió:

Cn. Lentulus quaestor et sacerdos T. Iulio Calvo salutem dicit: Thank you very much, T. Iuli, for sharing this article with us. It is very important: Nova Roma is mentioned and counted as a serious organization. This is what we work for. As for the late Joseph A. Ford: he was a Nova Roman citizen and his Roman name was C. Popillius Strabo. He is our dead. I announce you Quirites: our fellow citizen, the young GAIUS POPILLIUS STRABO is dead while serving in the army. Rest in peace with the gods. Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Quaestor Consularis Leg. Pr. Pr. Pannoniae Sacerdos Concordiae Accensus et Scriba --- Lun 21/7/08, Bryon Morrigan <bryon@bryonmorrigan .com> ha scritto: Da: Bryon Morrigan <bryon@bryonmorrigan .com> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] I read this news article today, and thought I should pass it on... A: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com Data: Lunedì 21 luglio 2008, 01:01 Salvete, At this website, (http://www.wildhunt .org/blog. html) the blogger seems to be _assuming_ that he was a member of NR, based on his religion. There's a little more commentary there as well. Valete, T. IUL. CALVUS Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus wrote: > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Cn. Equitio Marino Omnibusque S.P.D. > > > I just checked. He was not [a citizen]. > > Thank you for looking. > > This brings up a larger question. My brother was a US Civil War > re-enactor for many years. One thing he would do was color/honor > guards at newly-discovered graves of those who fought in the war. > Sometimes they would find a grave, report its discovery to the family, > assist in having a headstone provided, then do a 21-gun salute with > flags and the like. He did it many dozens of times and said it was > incredibly fulfilling and honorable. > > We have citizens who pass away for various reasons. If we learn of > such a death, is there something Nova Roma can do? It could be simple, > such as an official letter of condolence to the family, or it could be > larger, such as a local allied re-enactment legio doing a short salute > or a Religio Romana ritual being performed at the graveside. > > Vale, et valete. > > -- > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus > Tucson, Arizona, US, America Austroccidentalis > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com > > >

---

Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina
Crea l'home page che piace a te!.

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Dea vos porrigat opitula.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies nefastus
piaculum est: Lucaria; Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Lucaria

The second day of "letting in the Light" is celebrated in the lucar
of Rhea Silva. Beside the ritual found in Cato's De Agricultura,
there is one other example of a ritual once performed for the genii
loci of a sacred grove. Following a storm, the sacred grove of Dea
Dia was cleared of debris from fallen trees. Afterward the Gods were
propitiated for bringing tools made of iron into the grove. The
storm must have come by night, since of the deities to whom sacrifice
was offered was Summanus. An interesting pair found in this
particular inscriptions is that of Adolenda and Coinquenda.

"VII IDUS NOV [7 Nov 224 C.E.] the Fratres Arvales assembled in the
Grove of the Dea Dia on the Via Campana, at the fifth milestone, on
the instruction of magister Caius Porcius Priscus, and there they
made sacrifice because in a violent storm some trees in the sacred
grove of Dea Dia were struck by lightning and burnt; and in expiation
for the uprooting of those trees, striking them with iron and
consuming them in fire, for grinding down their remains and then for
replacing them with others, and for initiating the work and
rebuilding altars for the occasion, sacred to Dea Dia. In expiation
for these things a purification sacrifice was carried out with an
offering of a suovetaurilia [mature boar, ram, and bull]. Then in
front of the temple cows, with their horns bound in gold, were
sacrificed to the Dea Dia, a total of two; then at the altars built
for the occasion sacrifices were made to the Gods as listed: to Janus
Pater two rams; to Jupiter two castrated rams; to Mars Pater Ultor
two rams; to the deity, male or female, two castrated rams; to the
juno of Dea Dia two sheep; to the Virgines divae two sheep; to the
Famuli divi two castrated rams; to the Lares two sheep; to Fons two
castrated rams; to Flora two sheep; to Summanus Pater two black
castrated rams; to Vesta MaterÂ…of the gods and goddesses two sheep;
likewise to Adolenda and Coinquenda two sheep; and, before the
Caesareum, to the genius of our lord, the emperor Severus Alexander,
a bull with gilded horns; likewise to the twenty divi twenty
castrated rams." ~ Corpus Inscriptiones Latinae 6.2107, lines 2-13

Adolenda and Coinquenda, together with Commolenda and Deferunda are
indigitamenta for the clearing of a grove. Coinquenda is the numen
derived from a deity imbued in a person, when felling trees.
Commolenda is the numen that occurs in the cutting of the trees when
preparing them for a fire. Deferunda is then found whenin
parcelling out the trees. Finally, then, is Adolenda that is the
numen in nature, derived from a higher deity that occurs in the
burning of the trees (CIL 6.2104; CIL 6.2107, lines 2-13). These
indigitamenta are a later development in the religio, dating from the
late Principate and later. These particular indigitamenta were
recognized as antiquarian inventions introduced with the revitalized
religio Romana during the reign of Severus Alexander.


The gesture of prayer

In most instances Roman prayer was offered either manus supina for
the Di celesti Dique terrestri or otherwise manus prona for the Di
inferni. That is, the palm of the hand was held open and towards the
Gods invoked. On the Column of Trajan there is an interesting scene
of sacrifice where one figure stands behind the altar with his hands
instead held with bent fingers touching at the second joint. This
sharply contrasts with the Eastern gesture of prayer that is still
found with Christianity. Clasping the hands with fingers inter-
locking was considered impious by Romans as such a gesture is a form
of spell casting with evil intent.

"To sit by a pregnant woman, or by a person to whom any remedy is
being administered, with the fingers of one hand inserted between
those of the other, acts as a magic spell; a discovery that was made,
it is said, when Alcmena was delivered of Hercules. If the fingers
are thus joined, clasping one or both knees, or if the ham of one leg
is first put upon the knee of the other, and then changed about, the
omen is of still worse signification. Hence it is, that in councils
held by generals and persons in authority, our ancestors forbade
these postures, as being an impediment to all business. They have
given a similar prohibition also with reference to sacrifices and the
offering of public vows; but as to the usage of uncovering the head
in presence of the magistrates, that has been enjoined, Varro says,
not as a mark of respect, but with a view to health, the head being
strengthened by the practice of keeping it uncovered." ~ Plinius
Secundus, Historia Naturalis 28.17 (59)

Pliny's report is further exemplified in the Metamorphoses where Ovid
speaks of Lucina:

"Atlas felt the weight of the new constellation. But even now the
anger of Eurystheus, son of Sthenelus, was not appeased, and he
pursued his unyielding hatred of the father through the children.
Argive Alcmena, troubled by endless cares, had Iole, as one to whom
she could confide an old woman's miseries, to whom she could relate
her son's labors, known to all the world, and her own misfortunes. At
Hercules request, Hyllus, his son by Deianira, had taken Iole to his
marriage-bed, and his heart, and had planted a child of that noble
race in her womb. Alcmena said to her: `Let the Gods at least favor
you, and shorten that time when, in childbirth, you call on Ilithyia,
that Lucina who watches over frightened women, who, thanks to Juno's
influence, made things hard for me.

"When the time for Hercules's difficult birth came, and Capricorn,
the tenth sign, was hidden by the sun, the weight of the child
stretched my womb: what I carried was so great, you could tell that
Jove was the father of my hidden burden. I could not bear my labor
pains much longer. Even now, as I speak, a cold horror grips my body,
and part of me remembers it with pain. Tortured for seven nights and
as many days, worn out with agony, stretching my arms to heaven, with
a great cry, I called out to Lucina, and Her companion Gods of birth,
the Nixi. Indeed, She came, but committed in advance, determined to
surrender my life to unjust Juno. She sat on the altar, in front of
the door, and listened to my groans. With Her right knee crossed over
Her left, and clasped with interlocking fingers, She held back the
birth, She murmured spells, too, in a low voice, and the spells
halted the birth once it began. I labored, and, maddened, made
useless outcries against ungrateful Jove. I wanted to die, and my
moans would have moved the flinty rocks. The Theban women who were
there, took up my prayers, and gave me encouragement in my pain.

"Tawny-haired, Galanthis, one of my servant-girls, was there, humbly
born but faithful in carrying out orders, loved by me for the
services she rendered. She sensed that unjust Juno was up to
something, and, as she was often in and out of the house, she saw the
Goddess, Lucina, squatting on the altar, arms linked by Her fingers,
clasping Her knees, and said 'Whoever you are, congratulate the
mistress. Alcmena of Argolis is eased, and the prayers to aid
childbirth have been answered.'

"The Goddess with power over the womb leapt up in consternation,
releasing Her clasped hands: by releasing the bonds, Herself, easing
the birth. They say Galanthis laughed at the duped Goddess. As she
laughed, the heaven-born one, in Her anger, caught her by the hair,
and dragged her down, and as she tried to lift her body from the
ground, She arched her over, and changed her arms into forelegs. Her
old energy remained, and the hair on her back did not lose her hair's
previous colour: but her former shape was changed to that of a
weasel. And because her lying mouth helped in childbirth, she gives
birth through her mouth, and frequents my house, as before." ~
Ovidius Naso, Metamorphoses 9.273-323

The figure on Trajan's column is notable for his not employing the
usual Roman gestures of prayer, and yet he is shown carefully
avoiding either clasping his hands or interlocking his fingers.
Related, probably, is how the flamen Dialis is proscribed from
wearing any knots, closed rings, or chains on his person, as knots
and like, like clasped fingers, were associated with working black
magic. "Fingers crossed!"


AUC 218 / 535 BCE: Birth of Damo, daughter of Pythagoras and Theano.

"(Pythagoras) had a daughter named Damo, as Lysis mentions in his
letter to Hipparchus; where he speaks thus of Pythagoras: And many
say that you philosophize in public, as Pythagoras also used to do;
who, when he had entrusted his Commentaries to Damo, his daughter,
charged her to divulge them to no person out of the house. And she,
though she might have sold his discourses for much money, would not
abandon them, for she thought poverty and obedience to her father's
injunctions more valuable than gold." ~ Diogenes Laertiuss, Life of
the Philosophers: Pythagoras.

AUC 1003 / 250 CE: Birth of the future Emperor Maximianus.


Today's thought is from Pythagoras, The Golden Sayings 24-26

"Observe well, on every occasion, what I am going to tell thee: Let
no man either by his words, or by his deeds, ever seduce thee. Nor
entice thee to say or to do what is not profitable for thyself."

Salve Modiane,

Complutensis found him once we had his middle name. A search for
"Joseph Ford" was returning a null result. He had been dropped from
the census rolls as disappeared after the last census. His status has
now been updated to "deceased" bringing our total number of deceased
Nova Romani to 6.

Vale,

-- Marinus

"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> writes:

> Salve:
>
> Did you also look in inactive/disappeared? He could have missed the
> census. I looked for a bit yesterday but couldn't find him either. I was
> going to start looking in "disappeared." If you have already done that
> there is no need for me to as well.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...<cn.caelius%40yahoo.com>>
>> writes:
>>
>> > Being that he was a Roman pagan, is there any chance he was a
>> > citizen of Nova Roma?
>>
>> I just checked. He was not.
>>
>> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>>
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CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatoribus Patribus
Mátribusque Conscriptís, viris clarissimis et castissimae mulieribus,
Civibus Novae Romanae, Quiritibus, peregrinibus et omnibus: salutem
plurimam dicit:

With deep sorrow I have learned of the loss of our own Gaius Popillius
Strabo, Soldier, Husband, and Son of Nova Roma.

As Consul of Nova Roma I shall now write to his widow Karen and shall
also look to find an address for his other family members.

May the Gods now guide him on his journey home across the Western Seas.

Salvete Quirites Peregrines et omnes

Personal condolences may be sent to the family of Gaius Popillius
Strabo, Joseph Andrew Ford, at:

obit.ziemerfuneralhome.com/obit_display.cgi?id=543358

I shall also be sending a personal note by regular mail. At such a
time, you should allow the family its privacy and only contact them
through the Zeimer Funeral Home of Evansville at the above address.
But I would urge all of you so inclined to send a little note. They
will not read all of the emails, but there will be some comfort in
knowing that so many people from around the world cared for Gaius
Popillius Strabo.

Valete
M. Moravius Piscinus

M. Moravius Piscinus L Julia Aquila S.P.D.

Bravo!!!! M. Moravius Piscinus I applaud you.

M. Moravius Piscinus is a citizen I would be honored to engage in
discourse. I have been fortunate to have met many who display the
same sense of reasonable intelligence, grace, maturity and dignity in
my short time in Nova Roma.

My own relationship with religion is thus:

"If I am not a Christian, or a Buddhist, or a Jew, or Jain, or
Muslim, it is because I am curious and respectful of what each offers
by way of insight into the human condition. This leaves me rather
detached, indeed, and I don't deny that this is an artifact of a
philosophical humanism. There is nothing I would find more thrilling
than an extraordinary experience, a window opening into the
transcendent. But I am for the moment, anyway, thrilled more by the
variety of the sacred than attracted to commitment to any one version
of it. I think this is a particular Way perhaps appropriate to a
philosopher, whose desire is, above all, to understand. Even with the
limitations I believe are inherent in reason and human understanding,
I also suspect that there is still in effect no limit to them in
their proper sphere. The goal may be the mountaintop, but it is
impossible to say how far away that is, or how many worthy detours
and interesting sights may exist in the plain along the road."

©Kelley L. Ross, Ph.D.

I did not join Nova Roma because of Religio-Roma, which, according to
the Roman Way is to be respected but because Nova Roma is much more
than one aspect of human life and that ancient lifeblood courses
through my veins by my direct ancestry. These other aspects of
politics, society and culture deserve as much respect and credence.
Just as aspects of the government and politics of Rome survive today,
aspects of Religio-Roma survive today particularly in the Roman
Catholic religion in both names and rites.
Let us be tolerant and move on.

Optime Vale!
L Julia Aquila
Corda Serrata Pando

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Gai Petroni
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
> <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> <snipped>
> >
> > But as supra I said my language native is not English and I have

to

> > confess that I do not understand this "put up with" met with

harsh

> > reception.
> >
> > Cura ut valeas.
> >
> > G. Petronius Dexter.
> >
>
> "Put up with," as it is used here, is a euphanism for "tolerate"
> where toleration also implies "dislike." One can also "put up"
> pickles, or pears, or anything else one might can. So, to "put up
> with" does not always mean the same thing.
>
>
> The greatest mistake made by anyone on this list is to "read into"
> another person's post. That is, you "read into" his words for
> another meaning than what the words themselves express. You "read
> between the lines." This is how people find insults where no

insult

> was intended. They look for allusions to other things, seeking
> hidden meanings. I'm sorry, but not everyone on this list is

capable

> of placing hidden messages and secret codes into their posts as
> though they are members of the Illuminati. People ought to stop
> looking for what is not to be found.
>
> This sort of thing happens all the time, and it is what has

happened

> here. Scholastica did not mean anything more than what she said.
> And she was expressing what she thinks is the view of another

person -

> not a good thing to do. Now she has to post again and again, to
> explain her meaning. It is not because she said anything with a
> hidden meaning. The problem comes from those who read her words and
> assume that some other meaning lay behind her words.
>
> I regret to say that my two very close friends, Modianus and
> Hortensia, have made such an error. To my mind it is more their
> error of "reading into" Scholastica's words. But then Scholastica,
> who is always chiding other people for what words and language they
> use in front of women and children here, she is not always the best
> example of a person who is conscious of the sensibilities of

others.

> She can be just as guilty as any of us to write remarks without
> considering how they shall be received by others.
>
> We do have children here, some Citizens being infants and

toddlers.

> We have young adults of around fourteen years of age. We have men
> and women. Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, one Hindu,

assorted

> wiccans - and that Hedon Venator, the Barbarian - as well as us
> cultores Deorum. We also have us old people, some as old as

ninety.

> The sensibilities of our older Citizens on what is appropriate
> languge is quite different from what our younger Citizens use.

This

> is something else that may be at play here, as I believe

Scholastica

> is slightly older than myself, while Modianus and Hortensia are

more

> the age of my children. It can be a struggle at times for an
> American, an Englishman, and an Australian to understand one
> another. We all speak English, but it certainly is not the same
> English. And then of course we have those in Nova Roma whose

native

> language is not English. OTOH my friend Marcius Rex, an Austrian
> diplomat, probably speaks English better than any of us Americans.
> We have a wide range of language skills here. We originate from
> different cultures, different eras, different places. We are an
> international community, sometimes complicating our relationships,
> but always making them interesting. This is something that

everyone

> needs to keep aware when they write and also when they read.
>
> Be aware of the person to whom you write.
> Be aware of those others here who will also read your post.
> Be aware that what you read may not be intended for you at all.
> Be aware that people often have difficulty expressing themselves.
>
> Rather than assume that anything written was intended as an insult,
> ask for an explanation. You can make your point more often by

asking

> the right questions than by going into a rant for which you shall
> later have to apologize. Also you can write to the Praetores who

are

> responsible for monitoring this Forum. If you find something
> offensive, let the Praetores make their inquiries before you

involve

> yourself in a needless argument on the list.
>
>
> A final comment. Too often on this list are we focused on

ourselves,

> on Nova roma and its personalities. There was a time when this

list

> held great interest for people to read. We had people in Rome
> reporting daily on the excavations as they took place in the Forum -

> and thus before any information came through the news services.
> Others wrote about events and places in their own areas. We had
> people discussing history, food, and philosophy on this list. It

is

> unfortunate that the main list has gotten away from such
> discussions. I suggest that when you come across something that
> interests you that you share it. Generate the kind of discussions
> that you wish to participate in, and the rest you can ignore if you
> wish. It makes the list more interesting, more vibrant, and it

makes

> your time here all that much more pleasurable.
>
> Vale optime
> M. Moravius Piscinus
>

Salvete Omnes,

A Tullia Scholastica conducted herself with intelligence, dignity and
grace. The Magistra's comments are clear and to the point and simply
reflect common courtesy that is oft times neglected in this modern
world. Good manners and respect for others never goes out of style.
Not once was she disrespectful and or included veiled derogatory
characterizations against another individual. This latest episode
only reaffirmed my respect for our Senatrix.
It is important to remember to examine one's own motivations when one
feels anger or distress over what another has said before speaking,
or writing. It is equally important to re-examine what was said, in
context, and be certain that the text in comprehended properly as
often emotions can put the wrong spin on even the most innocent of
words. This applies to everyone.
If one feels the matter must be confronted in a personal way then it
should be carried out off the boards in personal email. This way it
will not alienate others and disrupt conversations on the matters of
the state, which is, Nova Roma.

Bene facis,
L Julia Aquila


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica"
<fororom@...> wrote:

>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Vibio Novello quiritibus, sociis,

peregrinisque

> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > As a new citizen, I do have to agree with Scholastica that many

people are

> > misreading his comments.
> >
> > ATS: Thank you for your support. As Modianus noted,

however, I am not a

> > he, but a she, in this overwhelmingly male organization. I am

one of the few

> > women here who moreover is an active citizen, and am a senior

Latinist who

> > teaches at the Academia Thules. Most names ending in -a are

feminine, but

> > some are not (Scaevola, Scaeva, Agricola), which are normally

masculine, but

> > may also be feminine, and some are always unisex, such as Maior

(we have two

> > active citizens with this cognomen, one male, and one female).

If the nomen

> > also ends in -a, the person is a woman, but if it ends in -us,

the person is

> > male.
> >
> >
> > Simply using the phrase "put up with" does not mean he was acting

in a

> > disrespectful manner towards the Religio Romana. It is not

disrespectful to

> > acknowledge that there are people who disrespect your group, be

it religious

> > or otherwise.
> >
> > ATS: Of course not.
> >
> > There is nothing to be gained in refusing to acknowledge the

existence of your

> > detractors, and, though not true in this case, there are times

where there is

> > something to be learned and improved upon from the reasons for

your criticism.

> >
> > ATS: Indeed.
> >
> > The fact of the matter is that much of the world is so

entrenched in dogma

> > that they look down on any who do not follow the same religion as

them, even

> > more so when the religion exists beyond the mainstream (and

misunderstandings

> > of the word "cult" do not help the matter). This causes a

greater problem due

> > to the fact that most modern use of Latin is by the Roman

Catholic church.

> >
> > ATS: To be sure, but there now are Circuli Latini, in which

people gather

> > to speak (yes, speak) Latin over a meal, and several

Conventicula, in which

> > participants are immersed in spoken Latin. Our Avitus teaches

courses at the

> > Academia Thules which are geared to producing fluency in spoken

(as well as

> > written) Latin, and as an expert on neologisms who is writing a

book in Latin

> > on the history of Latin vocabulary, is a very valuable asset to

both the

> > Academia and Nova Roma. We would do well to keep him here and at

the AT.

> >
> > Given the status quo of the world, it is my personal judgment

that the words

> > of Scholastica do not impugn the Religion Romana, but are instead

high praise

> > for the tolerance of Avitus.
> >
> > ATS: Of course my words do not impugn the RR. As for

Avitus, he does not

> > tolerate much, but if one practices laissez-faire with him and

does not force

> > him to participate in religion, he seems to tolerate all forms

thereof.

> >
> > I am concerned that these comments will paint me in a negative

light,

> > particularly since this is my first post and I am taking a stand

against many

> > of our political and religious magistrates. However, I find the

charges

> > leveled again Scholastica entirely unjust and unfounded, thus I

feel it is my

> > obligation to speak against them.
> >
> > ATS: Thank you again for your support. For whatever reason,

I am often

> > misunderstood here, notably by the cultores. As I noted above, I

am one of

> > the very few women here, and of the far fewer active women here,

as well as

> > the only woman teaching at the Academia. That, and the fact that

I am a

> > classicist and do not practice the Religio give me a little

different

> > perspective.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Quintus Vibius Novellus
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/56971;
>

Ave Gn Equitius;

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:
> Salve Modiane,
>
> Complutensis found him once we had his middle name. A search for
> "Joseph Ford" was returning a null result. He had been dropped from
> the census rolls as disappeared after the last census. His status has
> now been updated to "deceased" bringing our total number of deceased
> Nova Romani to 6.
>
> Vale,
>
> -- Marinus
>

Did Sergeant Ford have a Roman name by which some might remember him?

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus


Veteran: US Army Guard and USAF Res - former SSgt

Salve Venii,

Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> writes:

> Did Sergeant Ford have a Roman name by which some might remember him?

Yes. Among us he was Gaius Popillius Strabo.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Avete et gratias;

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:50 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
> Cn. Lentulus quaestor et sacerdos T. Iulio Calvo salutem dicit:
>
> Thank you very much, T. Iuli, for sharing this article with us. It is very
> important: Nova Roma is mentioned and counted as a serious organization.
> This is what we work for.
>
> As for the late Joseph A. Ford: he was a Nova Roman citizen and his Roman
> name was C. Popillius Strabo. He is our dead.
>
> I announce you Quirites: our fellow citizen, the young
>
> GAIUS POPILLIUS STRABO
>
> is dead while serving in the army.
>
> Rest in peace with the gods.
>
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
> Quaestor Consularis
> Leg. Pr. Pr. Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Concordiae
> Accensus et Scriba
>

This answers the question I had in my most recent post.

Here is a poem I wrote several years ago in honor of all those who
died defending their countries. The Burden mentioned is the weight of
protecting society that our men and women in uniform take upon
themselves.

Gods Bless those who go in harms way, not just the military, but our
police and firefighters, too.

Venator

Thoughts on the Burden - 12 SEP 2001

Row upon row the silent stones
Mark where they lie who burden bore
Tested under battle's harsh flames
Resting in peace freedom they gave

Gift they gave us those who lie still
Freedom to speak freedom to grow
Building our lives without concern
Knowing not when Burden is ours

Taking Burden handed to us
By those who sleep under the sod
Uneasy thing duty can be
Doing the Right sometimes is hard

Hard we must be sometimes in life
To win over Strife and Ordeal
Carry the hopes dreams and good will
Of Kinfolk's lives forward we must

We must be strong when courage fails
Doing duty in face of odds
Win through the flames or maybe fall
Our marker too added to rows

SP Robinson
Pvt US Army NG/VT (75 - 79)
SSgt USAF Res (83 - 92)

Gratias tibi ago;

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
<gawne@...> wrote:

> Salve Venii,
>
> Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> writes:
>
>> Did Sergeant Ford have a Roman name by which some might remember him?
>
> Yes. Among us he was Gaius Popillius Strabo.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

I did see his name in another post after I sent the above message.

I offered some words. - Venii

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Saturnus Rheaque vos porrigant opitula.

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies comitialis est:
Concordialia; Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

AUC 449 / 304 BCE: Plebeian Gnaeus Flavius elected Aedilis Curulis
and founds the Temple of Concordia ~ Titus Livius 9.46

"O Jupiter, Best and Greatest, Thou, Juno our Queen, Thou, Minerva,
patroness of the virtues, Thou, Concordia of the world and Thou,
Victory of Rome, do ye all grant this to the senate and for the
people of Rome, grant this to our soldiers, grant this to our allies
and to foreign nations: may he rule even as he has served!" ~
Scriptores Historiae Augustae, Vita Probi 12.7

Today also sees sacrificed offered to Saturninus and Rhea as the
parents of Concordia.

"Saturnus, Great King of ancient starry skies and earth primeval,
under Your peaceful reign never was anyone's tranquility disturbed by
labor. No cause for thunderbolt to punish men for wickedness, as the
earth kept her gold within. Come, Saturn, to Your own joyous feast."
~ Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrammata 12.62.1ff.

"O eternal Creatrix of Gods and men, who animates forest and stream
with soul, and joins seeds of life together throughout the world, and
You bear the stones of Pyrrha that were enlivened into men by the
hand of Prometheus. Hungry men You were first to give nourishment
with a variety of foods. You encircle and carry the sea within You.
Under Your power are the gentleness of domesticated herds and the
ferocity of wild beasts and the repose from flight of birds. Firm
and immobile, unsetting power of the earth suspended in the vacuum of
space, You are the center around which the rapid heavens revolve.
All the heavenly bodies, in chariots of fire, wheel about You, O
center of the universe, indivisible from the Great Brotherhood of the
Gods." ~ P. Papinius Statius, Thebiad 8.303 ff.


AUC 817 / 64 CE: The Great Fire of Rome concludes on its fifth day.

"At last, after five days, an end was put to the conflagration at the
foot of the Esquiline hill, by the destruction of all buildings on a
vast space, so that the violence of the fire was met by clear ground
and an open sky. But before people had laid aside their fears, the
flames returned, with no less fury this second time, and especially
in the spacious districts of the city. Consequently, though there was
less loss of life, the temples of the Gods, and the porticoes which
were devoted to enjoyment, fell in a yet more widespread ruin. And to
this conflagration there attached the greater infamy because it broke
out on the Æmilian property of Tigellinus, and it seemed that Nero
was aiming at the glory of founding a new city and calling it by his
name. Rome, indeed, is divided into fourteen districts, four of which
remained uninjured, three were leveled to the ground, while in the
other seven were left only a few shattered, half-burnt relics of
houses." ~ P. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 15.40


AUC 1148 / 395 CE: Destruction of the Eleusinian Sanctuary

A mob of Christians stormed into the sanctuary. The priests of
Demeter, led by Mithras Hilarius, barracaded themselves in the
Temple, where the Christians eventually attacked the Temple, too, and
burnt the priests alive within.


Our thought for today is from Epictetus, Fragment 17:

"When we are invited to an entertainment, we take what we find
offered; and if any one should bid his host to set fish or cakes
before him, he would be thought absurdly rude. And yet, in the world
we ask the Gods for what They do not give us, and still do so in
spite of all the many gifts that They do in fact provide to us."

T. Iulius Sabinus Consul: Senatoribus Patribus Mátribusque Conscriptís,
viris clarissimis et castissimae mulieribus, Civibus Novae Romanae,
Quiritibus, peregrinibus et omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

I join my colleague message, sending to Poppilius Strabo's family my
deepest condolence.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <mhoratius@...>
wrote:

> With deep sorrow I have learned of the loss of our own Gaius

Popillius Strabo, Soldier, Husband, and Son of Nova Roma.

> May the Gods now guide him on his journey home across the Western

Seas.

ante diem XII KALENDAS SEXTILIAS MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (22 July 20008 CE)

Ex Officio Consulares:

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus T. Iulius Sabinus consules: Senatui
Populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus, et omnibus: salutem plurimam
dicunt:

Iubemus vos omnes bono animo esse!

Edictum Consularis XI - MMDCCLXI: De Concordia pro L. Cornelio Sulla:

In accordance with the Senatus Consultum of 28 January 2761 on
setting an expiration date on the reprimand previously issued to
Censorius Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix:

Be it known by all Citizens of Nova Roma and by all others that the
Senate of Nova Roma determined that the reprimand was expiated by a
lapse of time since his transgression. Further, the Senate had set
this date, on the 2375th anniversary of the Dedication of the Temple
of Concordia by Gnaeus Flavius, as the date on which the previous
action by the Nova Roma Senate against Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
now expires.

Long ago Lucius Cornelius transgressed against the sanctity of the
Senate's deliberations. But it was soon afterward that he redeemed
himself, serving Nova Roma as Quaestor before entering the Senate on
his own merit. He served as a Praetor, Consul and Consul suffectus,
Censor and Censor suffectus, and he served two years as a Proconsul
of California.

While in these offices Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix passed a good
number of laws. One need only look in our tabularum to view the many
Leges Corneliae. He truly became the great legislator of Nova Roma.

In the early years of Nova Roma Lucius Cornelius Sulla was a charming
host who recruited more new Citizens than most, and thereby built up
the largest gens. A matter of pride for Lucius Cornelius Sulla as
Censor in 2753 AUC was for Nova Roma to reach its first thousand
Citizens. For the many accomplishments he achieved he then adopted
an additional cognomen of Felix.

Rightly and justly therefore has the Senatorial reprimand of Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix expired

Datum sub manu mea a. d. XI Kal Sext. M. Moravio Piscino T. Iulio
Sabino consulibus, in anno AUC MMDCCLXI

ante diem XI KALENDAS SEXTILIAS MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (22 July 20008 CE)

Ex Officio Consulares:

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
Romano, T. Iulio Sabino consuli collegae, Quiritibus, et omnibus:
salutem plurimam dicunt:

Iubeo vos omnes bono animo esse!

Edictum Consularis XII - MMDCCLXI: De Concordia pro A. Mario
Peregrino:

In accordance with the Senatus Consultum of 28 January 2761 on
setting an expiration date on the reprimand previously issued to the
former Citizen currently known as Aldus Marius Peregrinus:

Be it known by all Citizens of Nova Roma and by all others that the
Senate of Nova Roma determined that the reprimand was expiated by the
lapse of time. Further, the Senate had set this date, the 2375th
anniversary of the Dedication of the Temple of Concordia by Gnaeus
Flavius, the first Plebeian Aedilis Curulis, as the date on which the
previous action by the Nova Roma Senate against the person now known
as Aldus Marius Peregrinus now expires.

This matter is not simply one of forgiving and forgetting past
events, for Aldus Marius Peregrinus, as he is known to us today,
although not presently a Citizen of Nova Roma, continues to work
tirelessly for our Res Publica Libera, and continues to diligently
promote Nova Roma to others in the greater community of Roman
enthusiasts, of which Nova Roma is part.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus continues in a role for which he is so fondly
remembered, greeting new Citizens, answering their questions,
offering them advice and information. He is a valuable addition to
our New-Roman List.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus extended valuable service to the Res Publica
in working to develop friendly relations between Nova Roma and the
Societas Via Romana, between our Res Publica and the Roman Way, most
specifically for his part in arranging and promoting the feriae
Latinae of April 2761. While attending the joint meeting in Austin,
Texas, he acted to promote accord between the attendees to these
feriae for Jupiter Latiaris, these being representatives of Nova
Roma, SVR and TRW.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus, ever holding the Roman Outpost, continues to
work for the reputation of our Res Publica Libera, putting to rest
rumors and falsehoods about Nova Roma through his patient
explanations. Since the time that the Censores apologized to him
last year, Aldus Marius Peregrinus has become Nova Roma's best and
most prolific, if unofficial, ambassador to the greater community of
Roman enthusiasts.

Inside Nova Roma Aldus Marius Peregrinus has been a model contributor
to our website. He helps to fill in details of an episode of our
history, for which he has written from a balanced point of view. He
has taken pains to find primary sources and to document his
statements. He has been a cooperative editor, accepting the
suggestions of other members of the NRwiki team. More than that, he
has been an exemplary wiki-citizen by strictly following our rules
and guidelines and by seeking advice in uncertain areas.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus has not been a vanity editor, working on
material pertaining only to himself, but he has also made helpful
suggestions about our procedures. He has pitched in on the tedious
behind the scenes work, for example, graphics editing, that earns no
glory but that contributes to the smooth running and cohesiveness of
our website.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus has been an active contributor to our wiki
mailing list, thereby setting a positive example for cooperation and
collaboration. His tone there has always been positive and helpful.
Aldus Marius Peregrinus has been in every way a model participant and
I personally have found it a great pleasure to work with him.

Aldus Marius Peregrinus has shown by his faithfulness, diligence, and
persistence to be everything we would ever wish to see in a Citizen
of Nova Roma. He is a worthy example of Romanitas to all Citizens of
Nova Roma, and truly a beacon to the rest of the World on what it
means to be a Citizen of Rome.

The Senatorial reprimand on the person now known to us as Aldus
Marius Peregrinus is expired. All magistrates and Citizens of Nova
Roma

Datum sub manu mea a. d. XI Kal Sext. M. Moravio Piscino T. Iulio
Sabino consulibus, in anno AUC MMDCCLXI

ante diem XI KALENDAS SEXTILIAS MMDCCLXI a.u.c. (22 July 20008 CE)

Ex Officio Consulares:

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae, Quiritibus, et omnibus:
salutem plurimam dicunt:

Edictum Consularis XIII - MMDCCLXI: De creatione Accensae
Hoc agete, Tribuni Plebis, Magistrates et Quirites Novae Romae: Ex
hoc Marca Hortensia Maior Fabiana accensa creantur prima scriba ab
epistolis consularis

Nullum ius iurandum poscetur. Hoc edictum statim valet.

Datum sub manu nostra a.d. XI Kal. Sext. M. Moravio Piscino T. Iulio
Sabino consulibus, in anno A. U. C. MMDCCLXI.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


By this edict, the Consul appoints Marca Hortensia Maior Fabiana as
an accensa to the Consul with all the obligations and privileges
prescribed by the laws of Nova Roma; she is assigned as private
secretary for the correspondence of the Consul.

No oath shall be required. This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under our hands this twenty-second day of July 2761 ab Urbis
condita (CE 2008) in the consulships of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, sacerdos Concordiae, sacerdos Pannoniae,
quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis
plebis, senatui populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:


Salvete, Quirites!

May the Divine Concordance shine upon you brightly!

Today, in the Sacred Year of Concordia, and 10th Anniversary of Nova Roma, this very day is the feast of the dedication of the republican Concordia temple, our second feast regarding the ancient temple of Concordia in the Forum Romanum:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae

In the early years of the Old Roman Republic there was a very serious social conflict within Rome between patricians and plebeians. To commemorate the compromises worked out between patricians and plebeians, a temple to Concordia was built in the northwestern end of the Forum Romanum, backed up against the Capitoline Hill, near the Volcanal, a raised area that housed an altar to Vulcanus. This temple was originally vowed in 367 BCE by the M. Furius Camillus and dedicated on July 22nd which became Her festival.

Now I invite you to make new offerings to Goddess Concordance today, and to celebrate this day as a feast of peace, love, harmony and tolerance.

Please send your prayers to my e-mail address so that they be placed on the Nova Roman Virtual temple of Concordia:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29

I especially ask our Magistrates and Senators: send me your prayers to
Concordia and I will allocate them in the Virtual Temple of Concordia of the Nova Roman People:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29

The official sacrifice for this feast today has been done before my home altar. I have worshiped Concordia for the unity, strengthen and harmony of the New Roman People and I have given Her libum, wine and incense. The ritual has been this:


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Favete linguis!

(beginning of the sacrifice.)

PRAEFATIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
dea pacis et fortitudinis Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
hoc die templi Concordiae dedicationis
anni undecimi Novae Romae conditae
te precor, veneror, quaeso, obtestor:
uti pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis, uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc libo libando,
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Libum is sacrificed, libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

REDDITIO

Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
uti te ture commovendo
et vino libando
bonas preces bene precatus sum,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

PIACULUM

Iane,
Dea Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine is made.)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Valete in Concordia!

HAPPY CONCORDIA FEAST!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilium Curulium P. Memmii Albucii et Sex. Lucilii Tutoris
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina.
Crea l'home page che piace a te!
www.yahoo.it/latuapagina

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus sacerdos Concordialis omnibus sal.


May I add this beautiful poem of our poet Ullerius Venator to honour our festivity.

Read it please and take a few moments of pause today with offering a thought for the Harmony of the Nova Roman society.

Chose a person or two from our citizenry who are not already your friends and to whom you send a greeting message about this festive occasion, and offer your friendship to them.

This would be something which would INDEED honour our Goddess and our community!


Valete in Concordia!



"Concordance: A Poetic Offering"
(BY Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus)


In the shadow of the forum
Stands a temple white and gleaming
Stately columns carved of marble
Sculptured portals crafted in bronze


In the lamplight of the fanum
Stands a statue o'er the altar
Face is kindly beatific
Inviting all to her embrace


Crowds are bustling scurry, hurry
'Round this building looked at, unseen
Inside the hall it is silent
Save for the few who tend the shrine


Each and ev'ry man and woman
Has opinion has a good plan
Of what to build what to discard
Of what is right and what is wrong


As all are free owning themselves
No one nay says their right to speak
Their piece of mind their argument
However wrought within their hearts


Comes a young man full of promise
To the city roaring its life
Sees a need to calm the hubbub
Desires to set a new tone


Comes the young man to the temple
Reads the words above its door
Come pass within and join together
Then pass without and remember


Comes to young man curious thought
He steps inside alone he stands
Sees the statue walks towards it
Stops at altar looks around


Reads the young man all inscriptions
Learns the Name of deity
Honored here in the naos
Concordia he knows Her call


On the altar is a brazier
Gently smoking wafting high
From a coffer he takes incense
Thinks deep a bit makes offering


He dedicates himself to Her
And pledges true his will to help
Bring calmness to city's discourse
Bring amity to hearts of all


How to do this what will he say
To help his fellow Romans to see
That difference of opinion
Need not be the mother of strife


By example he will show way
To disagree but remain calm
To see the goal of building well
So Republic will grow and live


So the young man offered himself
As acolyte to concordance
With cheerful heart and cheerful words
He set to work to forge new bonds


In the shadow of the forum
Stands a temple white and gleaming
Stately columns carved of marble
Sculptured portals crafted in bronze


In the lamplight of the fanum
Stands a statue o'er the altar
Face is kindly beatific
Inviting all to her embrace




Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina.
Crea l'home page che piace a te!
www.yahoo.it/latuapagina

M. Moravius Piscinus Consul Civibus Novae Romae, Quiritibus SPD:

The Senate session of June and July has come to a conclusion. The
Tribuni Plebis are now tallying the results. I again encourage ALL
Assidui and ALL Capiti Censi to subscribe to the Comitia Centuriata
list

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaComitiaCenturiata/

After the Tribuni Plebis have given their report I shall discuss
parts of it in more detail and offer the Quirites an overview of our
current financial situation and what we have to look forward to in
the months and years ahead.

There are currently only 37 subscribers to the Comitia Centuriata
list, nearly all of them being members of the Senate, when we
presently have 203 Assiudui and 658 Capiti Censi. Of the 100
Provisional several are becoming full Citizens in the next few days.
We really need to have more of you subscribed into the Comitia
Centuriata list before I and other Senate members can discuss Nova
Roma finances with our Citizens.


Valete et vadete in pace Concordiae

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Salvete, vosque bona Neptunus auctet ope

Hodie est ante diem X Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies nefastus piaculum
est: Neptunalia; Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

Neptunalia

"O God, who with a nod can stir the ocean foam, You Neptunus, who
with Your Salacia encompass the lands of the earth, hear my prayer
and grant me Your indulgence." ~ Valerius Flaccus Argo. I.194-6

In the heat of summer, beneath the shade of shelters made from the
boughs of trees, Rome held a festival for Neptunus and Salacia.
Varro said that "Salacia, wife of Neptunus, got Her name
from "salum," for "the surging sea (L. L. 5.72)." Gellius simply
recorded that "Salacia of Neputunus" was used in the conprecationes,
or "joint prayers," that were found in the Libri Sacerdotum (N. A.
13.23.2). Earlier this month we saw how an objection was raised
against building a single temple for Virtus and Honos. Valerius
Maximus said, "it was not customary to sacrifice to two different
deities at once, with certain exceptions." Those exceptions are
named in Gellius: "Lua, of Saturnus; Salacia, of Neptunus; Hora, of
Quirinus; the Virites of Quirinus; Maia of Vulcanus; Heries of Juno;
Moles of Mars; and Nerio of Mars."

What sacrifice was offered to Neptunus and Salacia is not clear.
Valerius Flaccus mentions a sacrifice in another context where a
white bull is decked out with dark blue ribbons for Neptunus. This
is distinctly a different way to decorate the victim from the gilded
horns of victims offered to Apollo or the red ribbons decorating
victims for Jupiter.

"'O God, who with a nod can stir the ocean foam, You who with Your
salt water encompass the lands of the earth, hear my prayer and grant
me Your indulgence. I am the first of mankind to venture forth on
unlawful paths across Your waters, and therefore, one might suppose,
deserve the worst of Your storms. It is not my own idea to presume
in this way, to pile mountain on high mountain and summon down from
Olympus bolts of heavenly lightning. Pelias' prayers are false. Do
not be swayed by his vows, but know that he devised and imposed his
cruel commands to send me off to Colchis and bring on me and my kin
the bitterest grief. I beg of You, therefore, mercy and justice.
Let Your waters receive me: bear me up and protect this ship and its
crew of kings.' Thus he spoke as he poured the rich wine from the
cup on the blazing coals of fire." ~ Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica
1.188-203

Like the water that He is meant to personify, in Greek Neptunus is
associated with shape shifting. He gives the power of shape-shifting
to his descendents, Mestra and Periclymenus (Ovid, Metamorph. 8.843-
884; 12.536-579). When Achiles defeat Cycnus, another child of
Neptunus, the God changes His son into a swan. Ibid. 12.64-145). He
changed Perimele into an island (ibid. 8.547-610 , and asked by
Venus, He changed Ino into the sea goddess leuccothoe (Ibid. 4.512-
542). Through His own power at shape-shifting he took Canace,
Iphimedia, and as a ram to Theophane, as a horse to Ceres, as a bird
to Medusa by which he sired the winged horse Pegasus, and Melantho
while He was in the guise of a dolphin.

Where in Greece He was primarily a God of the seas, with stories
invented of Him to match those that the Greeks told of Jupiter, in
Italy Neptunus was known more as a God of springs, streams and
rivers. Thus was he associated with nymphae and the Nixi. The
latter were a pair, male and female, who were associated with healing
springs rising from the depths of the earth. (Ovid , Met. 8.595-
602). Neptunus was also associated with earthquakes. At Rome he
acquired the Greek attribute for being a God of Horses, where the
Italic Consus, also a God of the Earth, had previously been
associated with horses. Throughout Italy, where megalithic
structures were found, these were attributed to the Sons of Neptunus,
the giant Cyclops. Many of the dolmens, menhirs, and stone lay-outs
occur in Apulia up into Abrozzo. Lombardia and Liguria have menhirs
and other megalithic structures. Liguria also has the carved
warriors who possibly represent Lares. Meanwhile the world's largest
circle of stones is to be found high up in an Alpine pass. Snow
covered for much of the year, the piccolo San Bernardo stone circle
was mentioned by Pliny, and is alluded to in the Satyricon of
Petronius: "In the Alps near the sky, where the rocks are getting
lower and let you cross them, there is a holy place where the altars
of Hercules rise. Winter covers it with a persistent snow and it
raises its white head to the stars." Malta and other isles near
Sicily held megalithic structures. Sardinia was home of the Tombs of
Giants. Closer to Rome, the ancient walls of Ferentium, perhaps
dating to the Bronze Age, were attributed to the Sons of Neptunus.
For the Romans such structures showed them an earlier time, a time of
giants as they thought. Saturninus was said to rule over the Golden
Age, but there were also the Silver Age, and the Bronze Age, before
Jupiter came to rule during an age of iron and steel. Neptunus would
be associated as a ruler over one of the earlier ages more so than
the Greek held Him as ruler over the realm of the seas alone. Under
Greek influence Neptunus took on the attributes of Poseidon, and as
Rome and its empire became more of a mercantile power, Neptunus grew
in importance for the Empire.

"Thanks be to Neptune my patron, who dwells in the fish-teeming salt
sea, for speeding me homeward from his sacred abode, well laden and
in a good hour." ~ Plautus Rodens 906-910

Piccolo San Bernardo Stone Circle:
http://www.stonepages.com/italia/italia.html


Ludi Victoriae Caesaris

The Ludi Victoriae Caesaris continues into its fourth day with races
and theater. A statue of Caesar was erected in the Forum. It showed
Caesar with a sceptre or a spear and holding a globe on which stood
Victoria. This statue was represented on coins, and the pose is
similar to a relief that has been found at Ravenna. Following the
appearance of the Star of Caesar a star was carved on the forehead of
the statue. On one coin the star appears at the tip of the spear.
The relief of Caesar, however shows the star on Caesar's forhead, and
another statue of Caesar, found in Algiers, has a hole drilled into
the forehead where a metal star was affixed. He appears in the
Algiers relief along with Mars Ultor and Venus as a youthful divus
Iulius. Elsewhere, too, divus Iulius as youthful and nude or semi-
nude, with a spear, evoking a Quirinus-like image that was probably
intended to equate Caesar as another Romulus.


AUC 817 / 64 CE: Day six of the Great Fire of Rome.

"It would not be easy to enter into a computation of the private
mansions, the blocks of tenements, and of the temples, which were
lost. Those with the oldest ceremonial, as that dedicated by Servius
Tullius to Luna, the great altar and shrine raised by the Arcadian
Evander to the visibly appearing Hercules, the temple of Jupiter the
Stayer, which was vowed by Romulus, Numa's royal palace, and the
sanctuary of Vesta, with the tutelary deities of the Roman people,
were burnt. So too were the riches acquired by our many victories,
various beauties of Greek art, then again the ancient and genuine
historical monuments of men of genius, and, notwithstanding the
striking splendour of the restored city, old men will remember many
things which could not be replaced." ~ P. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales
15.41


AUC 832 / 79 CE: Death of Apollinaris, first Bishop of Ravenna


Our thought for today comes from the Emperor Marcus Aurelius,
Meditations 10.4:

"If a man is mistaken, instruct him kindly and show him his error.
But if thou art not able, blame thyself, or perhaps not even
thyself."

Salvete cultores Deorum, gentiles Romani, et omnes

Look this morning for some things to add in my post for Neptunalia, I
again came upon a prayer by Statius to Neptunus. It is a prayer
asking the Gods of the sea to safely bring a hero home for his
funeral. I could not escape, therefore, the journey of our own G.
Popillius Strabo.

"Gods, who delight in preserving bold ships and turning from them the
perils of windy seas, make smooth and placid these waters, and attend
with good council my vows, let not my words be drowned out by roaring
waves as I pray:

"O Neptune, grand and rare is the pledge we make to You, and in what
we commend into the depths of the sea. Young Maecius it is whose
body we commit to the sea, far from the sight of land, that he, the
better part of our souls, traverses the sea's length and depth (to
the Western Lands).

"Bring forth the benign stars, the Spartan brothers, Castor and
Pollux, to sit upon the horns of the yard arm. Let your light
illuminate sea and sky. Drive off your sister Helen's stormy star, I
pray, and expel it from all the heavens.

"And you azure Nereids of the seas, whose good fortune it was to
attain mastery of the oceans – may it be allowed to name you stars of
the seas – rise up from your glassy caverns near the foaming waves
that encircle Doris, and tranquilly swim circles around the shores of
Baiae where the hot springs abound. Seek after the lofty ship on
which a noble descendant of Ausonians, Celer, mighty at arms, is glad
to embark. Not long will you need to look, for she lately came
across the sea, leading a convoy laden with Egyptian wheat and bound
for Dicarcheis. First was she to salute Capreae and from her
starboard side offer a libation of Mareotic wine to Tyrrhenian
Minerva. Near to her, on either side, circle gracefully around her.
Divide your labors, some to tighten fast the rigging from masts to
deck, while others high above spread forth canvass sails to the
westerly Zephyrs. Still others replace some benches, others send
into the water the rudder by whose curved blade steers the ship.
Another plumbs the depths with leaden weights while others to fasten
the skiff that follows astern, and to dive down and drag the hooked
anchor from the depths, and one to control the tides and make the sea
flow eastward. Let none of the sea green sisterhood be without her
task.

"Then let Proteus of manifold shape and triformed Triton swim before,
and Glaucus whose loins vanished by sudden enchantment, and who, so
oft as he glides up to his native shores, wistfully beats his fish
tail on Anthedon's strand.

"But above all others you, Palaemon, with your goddess mother, be
favourable, if I have a passion to tell of your own Thebes, and sing
of Amphion, bard of Phoebus, with no unworthy quill.

"And may the father whose Aeolian prison constrains the winds, whom
the various blasts obey, and every air that stirs on the world's
seas, and storms and cloudy tempests, keep the North wind and South
and East in closer custody behind his wall of mountain, but may
Zephyr alone have the freedom of the sky, alone drive vessels onward
and skim unceasingly over the crests of billows, until he brings
without a storm your glad sails safe to the Paraetonian haven." ~ P.
Papinius Statius, Silvae 3.2.1-49


Valete et vadete in pace Neptuni

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

Salvete omnes,

I received this via the New Roman group:

Reminder from: newroman Yahoo! Group

Title: Want to learn Latin but too busy to take a class?

Date: Wednesday July 23, 2008
Time: 12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats: This event repeats every month.
Notes: If you want to learn Latin but are too busy to take a class,
or if you are an independent or self-directed learner, visit our
website and see what is available online for you.
http://novaroma.org/nr/Online_resources_for_Latin

Can anyone tell what time zone the 12 to 1 refers to?

Valete,

Laenas

M. Hortensia M. Moravio Quiritibus spd;
in Italy Neptunus Pater was originally the god of fresh waters! The
farmers very much wanted the streams and lakes of Italy to be full &
bountiful in the hot hot days of Quinctilis...Today Neptunus Pater is
very important to our lives, he's the patron of my Province America
Austrorientalis! And right now it is very dry, so I pray to Neptunus
to fill the dry streams and moisten the earth & fill the wells!
Please read the NRwiki article about Neptunus!
here:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Neptunus

> Valete et vadete in pace Neptuni
>

M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis

>

A. Tullia Scholastica Popillio Laenati quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Salvete omnes,

I received this via the New Roman group:

Reminder from: newroman Yahoo! Group
 
Title: Want to learn Latin but too busy to take a class?
 
Date: Wednesday July 23, 2008
Time: 12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats: This event repeats every month.
Notes: If you want to learn Latin but are too busy to take a class,
or if you are an independent or self-directed learner, visit our
website and see what is available online for you.
http://novaroma.org/nr/Online_resources_for_Latin

Can anyone tell what time zone the 12 to 1 refers to?

    ATS:  I suspect that it is just a scheduled time for the automated announcement.  I have checked this website, and note that there are some major omissions, including our own NR all-Latin mailing list and several online dictionaries.  

    I hope that you follow through on your intent to take a course at the Academia Thules (and that you will be given an ID for that); even study groups and the like cannot take the place of a proper course under the direction of a teacher either online or in the real world.  In such groups, it may be that no correction is provided, only comparison with the work of other students, and the leader need not be a teacher, just someone more knowledgeable than the students.  Those who complete even our elementary courses will have a reasonably sound knowledge of Latin; by about halfway through the intermediate course, they should have completed all grammar instruction, and be ready to read at least some Latin.  

Valete,

Laenas

Vale, et valete.

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/57025;

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		Official group for the Religio Romana
Date:		Thursday July 24, 2008
Time:		12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/ is Nova Roma's official forum for the discussion of the Religio Romana. Open to citizens and non-citizens. All topics directly relating to ancient Roman Religion and its modern reconstructed practice are welcome. Subjects of discussion may include rites and rituals, deities, the Mysteries, religious history and archaeology, festivals and sacred days, and more. This list is also a forum for official communication among the Nova Roman priesthoods and citizens who honor the ancient Roman goddesses and gods.
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M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Deos ego omnis ut fortunas sint precor. Hodie est ante diem
IX Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies nefastus est: Ludi Victoriae
Caesaris; Leonis in pectore clara stella exoritur. Interdum
tempestatem significat. The Ludi Victoriae Caesaris enters its
fifth day of races at the Circus Maximus and theatrical
performances. AUC 817 / 64 CE: Day seven of the Great Fire of Rome.
AUC 823 / 70 CE: Titus sacked the Herodian Temple in
Jerusalem "WHILE the holy house was on fire, every thing was
plundered that came to hand, and ten thousand of those that were
caught were slain; nor was there a commiseration of any age, or any
reverence of gravity, but children, and old men, and profane
persons, and priests were all slain in the same manner; so that this
war went round all sorts of men, and brought them to destruction,
and as well those that made supplication for their lives, as those
that defended themselves by fighting. The flame was also carried a
long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that
were slain; and because this hill was high, and the works at the
temple were very great, one would have thought the whole city had
been on fire. Nor can one imagine any thing either greater or more
terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman
legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamor of the
seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword. The people
also that were left above were beaten back upon the enemy, and under
a great consternation, and made sad moans at the calamity they were
under; the multitude also that was in the city joined in this outcry
with those that were upon the hill. And besides, many of those that
were worn away by the famine, and their mouths almost closed, when
they saw the fire of the holy house, they exerted their utmost
strength, and brake out into groans and outcries again: Pera did
also return the echo, as well as the mountains round about [the
city,] and augmented the force of the entire noise. Yet was the
misery itself more terrible than this disorder; for one would have
thought that the hill itself, on which the temple stood, was
seething hot, as full of fire on every part of it, that the blood
was larger in quantity than the fire, and those that were slain more
in number than those that slew them; for the ground did no where
appear visible, for the dead bodies that lay on it; but the soldiers
went over heaps of those bodies, as they ran upon such as fled from
them. And now it was that the multitude of the robbers thrust out
[of the inner court of the temple by the Romans,] and had much ado
to get into the outward court, and from thence into the city, while
the remainder of the populace fled into the cloister of that outer
court. As for the priests, some of them plucked up from the holy
house the spikes that were upon it, with their bases, which were
made of lead, and shot them at the Romans instead of darts. But then
as they gained nothing by so doing, and as the fire burst out upon
them, they retired to the wall that was eight cubits broad, and
there they tarried; yet did two of these of eminence among them, who
might have saved themselves by going over to the Romans, or have
borne up with courage, and taken their fortune with the others,
throw themselves into the fire, and were burnt together with the
holy house. "And now the Romans, judging that it was in vain to
spare what was round about the holy house, burnt all those places,
as also the remains of the cloisters and the gates, two excepted;
the one on the east side, and the other on the south; both which,
however, they burnt afterward. They also burnt down the treasury
chambers, in which was an immense quantity of money, and an immense
number of garments, and other precious goods there reposited; and,
to speak all in a few words, there it was that the entire riches of
the Jews were heaped up together, while the rich people had there
built themselves chambers [to contain such furniture]. The soldiers
also came to the rest of the cloisters that were in the outer [court
of the] temple, whither the women and children, and a great mixed
multitude of the people, fled, in number about six thousand. But
before Caesar had determined any thing about these people, or given
the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in
such a rage, that they set that cloister on fire; by which means it
came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing
themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters
themselves. Nor did any one of them escape with his life. A false
prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made
a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded
them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive
miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now there was then a great
number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the
people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for
deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from
deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by
such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with
such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he
shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is
that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance." ~
Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War 6.5.1-2
AUC 888 / 135 CE: Bethar, the last stronghold of the Bar Kochba
Revolt, fell to the Roman legions. In 123 CE a Jewish guerilla
movement began against Roman rule. Hadrian therefore sent another
legion to Judea, Legio VI Ferrata. Hadrian had given the Jews
permission earlier (118) to return to Jerusalem after their
expulsion in 70 CE and to rebuild their temple, but on a site other
than where it had originally stood. In 132 Hadrian began building
the colonia Aelia Capitolina at Jerusalem, with a Temple of Jupiter
Capitolinus on the site of the Herodian Second Temple. When he then
left Judea a revolt broke out that was led by Shimon bar Kokhba. The
rebels seized towns throughout Judea, building up walls to fortify
them and digging in tunnels. In the hills they had previously
fortified caves. Hadrian responded by bringing his forces up to
twelve legions in all, along with Julius Severus from Britannia as
commander, and former governor of Germannia, Q. LolliusUrbicus. In
all Rome took fifty Jewish fortresses and 985 villages, destroying
all of them. The last was Bethar. This fortress was headquarters
for Bar Kokhba and also home to the Sanhedrin and the Nasi at this
time. Also thousands had fled to Bethar as a refuge. The assault
began on the day of a fast held in remembrance of the destruction of
the First and the Second Temples. After the walls were breached
everyone inside were slaughtered. Among them was Rabbi Akiba ben
Joseph whose method of study would later lead to the Mishnah.
Villages were not rebuilt. Jerusalem itself was plowed under by a
team of yoked oxen. Hadrian then built Aelia Capitolina and
forbade any Jews from living there. The Jews who were captured in
the war or else rounded up after the fall of Bethar from the caves
in the hillsides were sold into slavery in Egypt. For the rest of
his reign, until 138 CE, Hadrian continued a persecution of Judaism,
forbidding the study of the Torah, observance of the Sabbath,
circumcision, meeting in synagogues, and other Jewish ritual
practices. No distinction was made in Hadrian's persecution between
Jews and Christians, the latter regarded as a Jewish sect. The
Christians, not as bound to traditional Jewish practices,
assimilated further into Roman society to avoid the restrictions
placed on Judaism.
Today's thought comes from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 12.25: "Cast
away opinion; and thou art free. Who then hinders thee from casting
it away?"

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit: Furrina sapientiam in nos infundat.

Hodie est ante diem VIII Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies nefastus
piaculum est: Furrinalia; Ludi Victoriae Caesaris; lustratio ad
flumen ad iter Dianae; Aquarius incipit occidere clare, Favonius vel
Auster.

Furrinalia

"[Obscur is] Furinalis from Furrina, who even has a feriae Furinales
in the calendar." ~ M. Terrentius Varro, Lingua Latinae 5.84

The ancient Goddess, besides having Her own festival, had a flamen
Furinalis dedicated to Her service. But there is nothing more about
Her that can be said. Even Varro said She was obscure to him, and he
was recognized in his time as an authority on ancient and obscure
deities of the religio Romana. The only other mention of Furrina is
when Gaius Sempronius Gracchus sought shelter in Her sacred grove and
was there murdered.

Venus Pompeiana

Returning from the East in 80 BCE, the usurper Sulla met resistence
from Republican armies raised from the Samnites, who had in recent
years become Roman citizens. After a climatic battle, Sulla ordered
that every male Samnite be executed, just as a prelude to the
butchery he was about to undertake in Rome itself. One place
conquered by Sulla was Pompeii. The city had been Samnite since the
fourth century, but then Sulla refounded the city as Colonia Cornelia
Veneria Pompeianorum to repopulate it after his destruction. He
provided the colony not only his gentile name but also his personal
patroness as the protective deity of Pompeii. The Campanian Venus
Pompeiana was unlike the Venus of the Capitaline. Venus Pompeiana
was adorned in a thick purple robe, encrusted with precious jewels.
Her mantle was likewise purple, with gold embroidered edges. She
bore a mural crown like Cybele or Tyche. She rode in a chariot
shaped like a red boat, drawn by four elephants. She held a sceptre
in Her right hand, and a ship's rudder in Her left. A statue adorned
in this manner would have been in the main temple. The temple has
yet to be discovered, but there are paintings from Pompeii that gives
us this view of how She appeared. In one painting there is a Cupid
holding a mirror for Venus, which may have also been part of the
statue. In the painting Venus Pompeiana is flanked by two Cupids in
flight, one bears Her a palm of victory and another carries woolen
fillts to place around Her brow and signify Her purity. In the Shop
of Verecundus Venus Pompeiana is seen flanked by Fortuna, on the
left, and by a genius on the right. Both carry cornucopia as symbols
of prosperity.

Lustratio at Capua

At Capua on this date, a lustratio of the city was conducted to the
river Volturnus, near the Temple of Diana Tifatina. As Rome
expanded, it established colonies to secure new won lands. The
ritual of forming a colony was similar to what the Romans believed
had been done in founding Rome itself. It began at the center with
the construction of the mundus, a circulum was plowed in a specific
manner, and the pomerium was marked out. Once a year, on the
anniversary of founding a colony, the sacerdotes purified the
boundaries of the colony by holding a lustratio.

The Ludi Victoriae Caesaris continue into day six.

AUC 797 / 44 CE: Traditional date for the death of James the Greater

AUC 817 / 64 CE: The Great Fire of Rome burns onto its eight day.

AUC 1059 / 306 CE: Death of the emperor Constantius I Chlorus; dies
imperii of Constantinus I.

Campaigning against the Picts, Constantius Chlorus died at Eboracum
(York). His legions in Britannia proclaimed his illegitimate son
Constantinus as imperator at age 26. Emperor Galerius recognized
Constantinus only as Caesar, raising Flavius Valerius Severus instead
to Augustus and thus co-emperor. The praetorians, however, declared
for Marcus Aurelius Valerius Maxentius, who was to trap Severus at
Ravenna on 28 October later that year. Ultimately this would lead to
Constantinus sole emperor.


AUC 1098 / 325 CE: Close of the Counci of Nicaea called by the
Emperor Constantinus I.


Today's thought is from Chrysippus, as found in Dio Chrysostom or. 1,
section 42-43:

"I might well speak next of the administration of the Universe and
tell how the world - the very embodiment of bliss and wisdom - ever
sweeps along through infinite time in infinite cycles, guided by Good
Fortune and a like power divine, and by a governing purpose most
righteous and perfect, and renders us like itself since, in
consequence of the mutual kinship of ourselves and the divine, we are
marshaled in order under one ordinance and law and partake of the
same polity. He who honors and upholds this polity and does not
oppose it in any way is law-abiding, devout, and orderly; he,
however, who disturbs it, as far as that is possible to him, and
violates it or does not know it, is lawless and disorderly whether he
is called a private citizen or ruler."

Salvete omnes,


The Munera Gladiatoria Quarters will be held on August 3rd, so send
in your entries no later than August 1st!


Enroll your animals/gladiators in the Munera Gladiatoria matches of
the Flavian Amphitheatre! You may enter one or two gladiators.

Entries must contain:

(a) Your Roman Name

(b) Your Entry's Name

(c) Type of Gladiator

---RETIARIUS: His weapon is the net, the trident and a dagger. His
defenses are a protection of arm (manica), that includes the
shoulder.

---HOPLOMACHUS: His weapons are a lance and a dagger. His defenses
are a closed crest hull, circular small shield and metallic shin
pads. His defenses are protection of right arm and he can take a
pectoral plate.

---MURMILLO: His weapon is a short sword (gladius). His defenses are
a closed great crest hull, rectangular big shield (scutum),
protection in right arm and shin pad in left leg.

---THRAEX: His weapon is a curved sword (sicca). His defenses are a
closed hull, the crest of the hull has the shape of faucet, a
quadrangular small shield (parmula), long metallic shin pads up to
the thigh and protection in right arm.

---SECUTOR: His weapon is a short sword (gladius). His defenses are
closed smooth hull, rectangular big shield (scutum), protection in
right arm and legs. Normally fight only against retiarii.

---DIMACHAERUS: His weapons are two curved swords (siccae). His
defenses are protections in arms and legs.

(d) Description/History of Your Entry

(e) Type of Tactics (1=Offensive, 2=Yourself, 3=Defensive)

(f) Your Ludus (Ludus Albatus, Ludus Praesinus, Ludus Russatus, or
Ludus Venetus).

---LUDUS ALBATUS (The Whites)

---LUDUS PRAESINUS (The Greens)

---LUDUS RUSSATUS (The Reds)

---LUDUS VENETUS (The Blues)


DEADLINE FOR ENTRIES: Entries must be received NO LATER THAN August
1st.

Submit entries to: lucius_vitellius_triarius@...


Valete optime,

Triarius


========================================
L-VITELLIVS-TRIARIVS
QUAESTOR-P-M-A
AEDILITAS-CURULIS
========================================

Salvete omnes,
I just got back today from Greece, where I spent one week under the
Olympus.
I realized only now that in my absence notice I had written the dates
wrong, mentioning August, when in fact I left in July.
Well, now I'm back.
I have had no time yet to read the sevral hundred messages from the
various NR lists, but it seems that in my absence a new religious war
started.

This evening I'm off again to another roman re-enactment event near
Budapest. When I'm back on Sunday I'll try to catch up with everything.

Optime valete,
L. Livia Plauta

M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam
dicit:Lverna dulcedonem in nos communicet.

Hodie est ante diem VII Kalendas Sextilias; haec dies comitialis est:
Ludi Victoriae Caesaris; Canicula apparet, caligo aestuosa.

The Ludi Victoriae Caesaris enters its seventh day.

AUC 689 / 64 CE: The Great Fire of Rome continues into its ninth
day.

AUC 531 / 222 BCE: Battle of Sellasia between Antigonus Doson of
Macedonia and Cleomenes of Sparta

"When the time to begin the action came, the signal was given to the
Illyrians, and, the officers calling on their men to do their duty,
they all instantly showed themselves and began the attack on the
hill. The light-armed mercenaries, who had been posted near
Cleomenes' cavalry, upon seeing that the rear of the Achaean line was
exposed, attacked them from behind, and the whole force that was
pressing on to the hill was thus threatened with a serious disaster,
as Eucleidas' troops were facing them from above while the
mercenaries were vigorously attacking their rear. At this critical
moment Philopoemen of Megalopolis, who saw what was happening and
foresaw what was likely to happen, first attempted to call the
attention of the commanding officers to it, but as no one paid any
attention to him, since he had never held any command and was quite a
young man, he called on his own fellow-citizens to follow him and
boldly fell upon the enemy. Upon this the mercenaries who were
attacking the assailants of the hill in the rear, hearing the clamour
and seeing the p407cavalry engaged, abandoned what they had in hand
and running back to their original position came to the aid of their
cavalry. The Illyrians and Macedonians and the rest of this
attacking force were now disengaged, and threw themselves with great
dash and courage on the enemy. Thus, as became evident afterwards,
the success of the attack on Eucleidas was due to Philopoemen. Hence
it is said that subsequently Antigonus asked Alexander, the commander
of the cavalry, to convict him of his shortcomings, why he had begun
the battle before the signal was given. On Alexander denying this
and saying that a stripling from Megalopolis had begun it contrary to
his own judgement, the king said that this stripling in grasping the
situation had acted like a good general and Alexander himself, the
general, like an ordinary stripling.

"To continue our narrative, Eucleidas' troops, on seeing the enemy's
lines advancing, cast away the advantage the ground gave him. They
should have charged the enemy while still at a distance, thus
breaking his ranks and throwing them into disorder, and then
retreating slowly, have returned in safety to the higher ground.
Thus having in the first instance spoilt and broken up that peculiar
serried formation of the enemy so well adapted to their special
equipment, they would easily have put them to flight owing to their
favourable position. Instead of doing this, they acted as if the
victory were already in their hand and did exactly the opposite.
They remained, that is, at the summit in their original position with
the view of getting their opponents as high up the hill as possible
so that the enemy's flight would be for a long distance down the
steep and precipitous slope. As might have been expected, the result
was just the reverse. They had left themselves no means of retreat
and on being charged by the Macedonian cohorts which were still fresh
and in good order, they were so hard put to it that they had to fight
with the assailants for the possession of the extreme summit. From
now onwards, wherever they were forced back by the weight of their
adversaries' weapons and formation, the Illyrians at once occupied
the place where they had stood, while each backward step Eucleidas'
men took was on to lower ground, since they had not left themselves
any room for orderly retreat or change of formation. The consequence
was that very soon they had to turn and take to a flight which proved
disastrous, as, for a long distance, it was over difficult and
precipitous ground.

"At this same time the cavalry action was going on, all the Achaean
horsemen, and especially Philopoemen, rendering most distinguished
service, as the whole struggle was for their liberty. Philopoemen's
horse fell mortally wounded, and he, fighting on foot, received a
serious wound through both thighs. Meanwhile the two kings at
Olympus opened the battle with their light-armed troops and
mercenaries, of which each had about five thousand. These, now
attacking each other in detachments and now along the whole line,
exhibited the greatest gallantry on both sides, all the more so as
they were fighting under the eyes of the kings and the armies. Man
therefore vied with man and regiment with regiment in a display of
courage. Cleomenes, seeing his brother's troops in flight and the
cavalry on the level ground on the point of giving way, was afraid of
being charged from all sides and was compelled to pull down part of
his defences and to lead out his whole force in line from one side of
the camp. Each side now recalled by bugle their light-armed troops
from the space between them, and shouting their war-cry and lowering
their lances, the two phalanxes met. A stubborn struggle followed.
At one time the Macedonians gradually fell back facing the enemy,
giving way for a long distance before the courage of the
Lacedaemonians, at another the latter were pushed from their ground
by the weight of the Macedonian phalanx, until, on Antigonus ordering
the Macedonians to close up in the peculiar formation of the double
phalanx with its serried line of pikes, they delivered a charge which
finally forced the Lacedaemonians from their stronghold. The whole
Spartan army now fled in rout, followed and cut down by the enemy;
but Cleomenes with a few horsemen reached Sparta in safety. At
nightfall he went down to Gythion, where all had been prepared some
time previously for the voyage in view of contingencies, and set sail
with his friends for Alexandria.

"Antigonus having attacked and taken Sparta, treated the
Lacedaemonians in all respects with great generosity and humanity,
and, after restoring the ancient form of government, left the city in
a few days with his whole army, as he had received news that the
Illyrians had invaded Macedonia and were ravaging the country. Thus
ever is it the way of Fortune to decide the most weighty issues
against rule and reason. For on this occasion Cleomenes, had he
deferred giving battle for merely a few days, or had he, on returning
to Sparta after the battle, waited ever so short a time to avail
himself of the turn of events, would have saved his crown." ~
Polybius, Histories 67.1-70.3


Our thought for today is from L. Annaeus Seneca, On the Happy Life
14.3:

"He who pursues pleasures makes everything else secondary, and first
of all surrenders his liberty, as he pays this price at the command
of his belly; nor does he buy pleasures for himself, but he sells
himself to pleasures."

Iulius Probus tribunus plebis SPD.

Senate Voting Results.

The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been
tallied as follows:

Voting began at 06.00 hrs CET on Thursday 17 July 2761 and ended at
21.00 hrs CET on Sunday 20 July 2761.

The following 26 Senators cast votes in time. They are referred to
below by their initials, in the order in which they cast their votes:

[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna.
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.

The following 8 Senators did not cast a vote (their absence was not
announced or justified):

[MCJ] Marcus Cassius Iulianus
[GEC] Gaius Equitius Cato
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus
[FGA] Flavius Galerius Aurelianus
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
[MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus

The following Senator absence was justified:

[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens - absence justified.

The necessary majority for a Senatus consultum was therefore 14 votes
in favor.
"UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "ANTIQUO" is a vote
against, and "ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.

The Senate was called to vote on the following agenda:
------------------------------------------------------

Item I.a.
The Senate hereby grants all Vestales Virgines of Nova Roma an
exemption from the tributum whereby they shall not now and for all
times in the future be required to pay the annual tax and shall
nevertheless retain their status as assidui and thus eligible to also
retain their sacerdotal offices in perpetuity.

UTI ROGAS 21.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 2.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS I think the purpose
of this proposal will benefit Nova Roma in the future.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS I also think the purpose
of this proposal will benefit Nova Roma in the future.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: ANTIQUO for this proposal is
unconstitutional : neither a magisterial edict nor a a senatus
consultum can bring an exception to rules that are, as currently,
organized by leges. On the proceedings, the fact that this point has
been put in the agenda 3 days ago with no possibility of preliminary
discussion, while the current Senate session is open since June 19,
is irregular, as is the fact that no previous opinion from the
Collegium Pontificum has been asked and displayed on the matter. On
the matter, there are other ways to thank any public officer for well
fulfilling their charge.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS with the understanding
that the The Apula de assidui et capiti censi which defines taxpayers
and non-taxpayers will be placed before the voters for amendment. A
Senatus consulta can not override the requirements of a Lex The Lex
will have to be amended in order to give this exemption the force of
law?
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:ABSTINEO
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti Rogas. Let us put in motion what
is needed to do this lawfully.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas, though as Consularis
Paulinus has pointed out, it may be necessary to amend the Lex Apula
de assiduis et capite censis in order for this to be put into
effect.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS Vestals work pro populo so the
Senate can remit their tax
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior: Abstineo.
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:ABSTINEO
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo: ANTIQUO. Constitutionally, the
legislative body most in charge of the policies of the Collegium
Pontificium is the Collegium herself. The concerns of some Senators
regarding existing comitia laws are well taken, and with that, I
recognize the Senate's authority regarding the republic's financial
distribution. However, constitutionally, the criteria by which
religious personnel are allowed to hold titles, how they are
rewarded, disciplined, etc. is not for the Senate to determine....it
is the Collegium. And there is an existing Religious Decretum on the
matter at hand:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/2003-11-02-i.htm
AS it stands they are legally bound to pay taxes. I have not seen
this religious legislation repealed. Am I incorrect? Assuming I am
not (and I haven't seen any announcement to this end)I must vote no
until the religious decretum above is amended to reflect that our
proposal above is in keeping with the constitutionally privileged
policy of the Collegium running her own internal affairs. I will
support further steps to ensure that they may be granted perpetual
assiduiship, if the collegium decrees that this is their wish. We
have to be constitutional.
-----------------------------------------------

Item I.b.
The Senate directs that all public sacerdotes make an annual report
to the Collegium Pontificum of any funds they receive and any
expenses they pay in the performance of rites specifically for the
Res Publica of Nova Roma. The Collegium Pontificum shall be
responsible for gathering this information from all public sacerdotes
and the Pontifex Maximus shall be responsible for reporting their
findings semi annually to the Consules, Quaestores Consulares, and
Curator Aerarii by 31 July and 31 January.

UTI ROGAS 20.
ABSTINEO 2.
ANTIQUO 4.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS. I am not sure if
this is needed, but let's try.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas. However,I think that
our sacerdotes should be able to get their taxes reimbursed through
showing they are performing rituals on behalf of Nova Roma. Most
magesterial tasks require time, being a sacerdos requires time and
money to perform the rituals. To some this money is no big
investment, to others it is.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: ANTIQUO, for for this proposal is
also unconstitutional :
- on one hand, the Senate can, as the body in charge of the Budget of
the Republic, organize the rules and proceedings relative to the
goals for which NR public funds are spent, and how to control these
expenses;
- but on the other hand, it cannot put a new obligation to the
Collegium Pontificum's charge without Its preliminary agreement,
specially because the CP is not, in our constitution and leges, bound
by the acts of every sacerdos and is a separate constitutional power
not placed under the Senate's overview (see Constitution § V and VI).
So, even if our legal texts do not cover the field treated here by
Item Ib, the Senate is legally authorized to take powers which our
laws does not give it.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: ANTIQUO. This proposal should be
changed so it reads as a suggestion to the Collegium Pontificum as to
what the Senate recommends should be required of all public
sacerdotes.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis: ABSTINEO
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:ABSTINEO
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti Rogas. Let us put in motion what
is needed to do this lawfully.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: ANTIQUO. Should be changed so
it reads as a suggestion to the Collegium Pontificum.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas, though here again we may
have to change the wording and/or amend legislation.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS. As a sacerdos I am all for
financial transparancy. It ensures an ethical priesthood.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:ANTIQUO. Again, this must line up with a
religious decretum. The Collegium dictates policy on their internal
affairs, which includes member redentials, behaviour, etc. The Senate
does not. I will cooperate with the wishes of the collegium after I
formally hear from them via decretum, supporting whatever subsequent
legal amendments are necessary...I will not, by unconstitutional
means however, tell them what to do.
-----------------------------------

Item II. Withdrawn
-----------------------------------

Item III.
The Senate hereby approves of the Consules acting on behalf of Nova
Roma to accept sponsorship from "Babyhold" and to direct our Magister
Aranearius to provide space on the Nova Roma website that
advertises "Babyhold" sponsorship for Nova Roma. In developing this
relationship, the Consules are likewise to develop guidelines for
potential future sponsors of Nova Roma, these guidelines to be
submitted to the Senate Rules Committee before final submission to
the full Senate for approval.

UTI ROGAS 22.
ABSTINEO 2.
ANTIQUO 2.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus:Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, this this we are
taking a big step forward. We might find that our website and our Res
Publica can draw more money like this to us, as long as it doesn't
hurt our "look", I am all for it.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: ABSTINEO, because the consular
proposal asks us to "accept sponsorship from 'Babyhold'", and not
to "enter in discussion with B.", which I would approved. If this
item is voted, I am confident in the fact that the consuls will be
cautious enough to propose, if things are to go further, a
contractual relation with potential sponsors which will take in due
consideration the fact that Nova Roma intends to keep its sovereignty
on its web pages; the "end of contract" clauses will thus need to be
carefully examined in this frame. Second, I would be confident also
that our consuls are wise enough to make proposals who do not take
our Republic web pages for a pure commercial web site.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS. This is a very important step
for our Res publica.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. It is afterall perhaps
better to start negotiations with them than to let the opportunity to
pass. However as I and others have pointed out, the contents of their
service is not in par with the quality standards we are used to. I
would like to see in the negotiations also dicussed a possible field
of cooperation between us and them in a way that we could provide
properly researched information about the Roman names.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS, I too have trouble
understanding why Babyhold would want to sposor NR and have concerns
about appearances, but I see no harm in the Consuls investigating.
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS. It certainly can't
hurt for us to investigate what this would entail. I would not want
any such advertisement on the "splash" page, but on the main page.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Abstineo. I have reservations about
their motives, and in any case do not like the concept of advertising
on our website, particularly on the main pages
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS, I think it is splendid for
Nova Roma to generate income. Praise goes to M. Octavius Gracchus and
M. Lucretius Agricola for our NRwiki that receives so many hits
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS. I support the creation of
guidelines for the management of the sponsorships. I would suggest to
prefer cultural supporters working in our same field, the Ancient
World. Welcoming Google AdSense (filtering the banners for cultural
matters only), it could be a good opportunity to raise money and
improve our position in the search enigines..
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:ANTIQUO. As with others, I am not
entirely satisfied with the credentials of this sponsor, or the long
term benefit to the republic. For the moment any way.
--------------------------------------------

Item IV. Withdrawn
[PMS] If this is the item for a few sestertii for the conventus, I
would have cheerfully voted for it. I realize that there was no
budget put forth last year, but we could still have voted to put a
few coins in the sinus...we've done so in the past.
---------------------------------------------

Item V.
The Senate hereby revokes the senatus consultum of 26 November
MMDCCLVI to classify the land in Texas as ager publicus.

UTI ROGAS 26.
ABSTINEO 0.
ANTIQUO 0.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, this have to be
done!
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas. Lets get this
embarassment behind us!
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS, with my thanks to Cos.
Moravius for the work done with his team, and having understood that
this SC was unconstitutional.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS. Excellent decision!
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. I'm glad that this fiasco is
been finally cleared officially. A lesson to learn for all of us
surely.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas and let this be a lesson to
us all. Caveat emptor!
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus: UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas (disappointing indeed)
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas, et ex animo. Delenda est
ilico et illius mentio infelix infaustaque.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS, a must.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS A necessary internal measure
to align with our future actions on this outside Nova Roma.
---------------------------------------

Item VI.
The Senate approves of Nova Roma, Inc. joining the Maine Association
of Nonprofits (MANP) http://www.nonprofitmaine.org/ at a cost of
fifty U. S. dollars ($50) per year subscriptions fee in order to
receive legal advice and other services.

UTI ROGAS 17.
ABSTINEO 4.
ANTIQUO 5.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, once again a step
towards professionalism.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas. I applaud M. Hortensia
Maior for advocating for this investment, which I believe will be a
good one.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS, will help keep our noses
clean.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS, even if we still wait for
precisions on the "other services", and with the wish that the
consuls issue every year a short report on whether and how this
service would have been used.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: ANTIQUO. Having talked to the
people at MANP the `free legal" advice Is for ONE 30 minute time
period ONCE. They have one lawyer who donates a set block of time and
the advice is given on a first come first served basis. Membership in
the group gets us nothing.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS. I concur with Senator and
Censor K. Fabius Buteo Modianus: theour dear collegae, Senatrix M.
Hortensia Maior, deserves a well earned recognition for this proposal.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:ABSTINEO
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. Let's see if they can be of
any help for our administration on macronational matters.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas: ANTIQUO, I know it is only $50, but I
see no need for this and as Censor Paulinus has pointed out it is of
very dubious value.
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:ANTIQUO. I echo the comments
of Laenas and Paulinus that this has not been shown to be of great
value, despite the low cost.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus: Antiquo. I do not feel that we would
be getting good value for our fee here. While the idea of joining
some association that would help us with legal issues unique to Maine
nonprofit associations is a good one, this particular association
doesn't seem to be the answer.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Abstineo. I am less than convinced
about the merits of this.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS, We need professional advice.
This insures it at a low cost
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior: Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus: ANTIQVO.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar: ABSTINEO. I don't know what is this
Association, I don't know if we need its help.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS - Hey, we paid 35.00 yearly on
land taxes for a few years. I'd say try it for a couple of years, and
if it isn't all it's cracked up to be, then we unsubscribe. I don't
see where that will hurt us.
------------------------------------------

Item VII.

The Senate hereby approves of the objectives and focus areas laid out
in the project proposal of Aedilis Curulis P. Memius Albucius. The
proposal is as follows.
*Proposals for the Magna Mater Project:
The first objective set for the Magna Mater Project has been
completed. We shall now seek Senate approval and guidance on our next
objectives. Based on the Senate's decisions a multi-phased plan
extending over a number of years will be developed with an estimated
schedule and estimated costs to be presented later this year.
First to consider are a number of focus areas that will be developed
for the project:
-------------------------------

Focus A: Financial support for a publication and translation of a
master's or doctoral thesis on the "Mater Magna in the Roman Empire"
with a target date of auc 2764 (2011).

UTI ROGAS 24.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: Contrary to the previous vote on MMP,
where the future of the action was at stake and for which I
considered that I was not, as aedilis curulis, to express any
opinion, I am drawn this time, as the proposals beneath have been
issued by my aedilitas and worked in a second time with the
consulate, that I am to bring my support to this program. UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:TI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti Rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato; UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Abstieno. I can't vote for this until
the idea is better formed,though in principle I think it's a good
idea.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas; correct terminology for the
latter, however, is dissertation, not thesis.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS a great way to support
scholarship and the gods
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS - 'financial support'...amount
to be fixed by the Senate is what I'm assuming here.
---------------------------------------------------

Focus B: Financial support for the 3d virtual reconstruction of the
Magna Mater temple and its immediate area Palatine. This virtual
reconstruction would be either B1 or B2, below, at the Senate's
option.

B1: A basic reconstruction, not too detailed, taking around six
months to complete.

UTI ROGAS 5.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 18.
Item not passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Negas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: ANTIQUO
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Antiquo.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: ANTIQUO.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: ABSTINEO
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:ANTIQVO. We don't have resources for this
project
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Antiquo. Knowing the costs of 3D and
architectrual modeling from my daily work I know that we lack funds
to do this.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Antiquo to both. I cannot approve
this until I am sure that we are not duplicating the efforts of
others with greater funding and superior resources.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:ANTIQUO
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Antiquo
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Antiquo. Inutile expenses.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:ANTIQUO
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Antiquo
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Abstineo.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior; ANTIQUO
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:ANTIQUO
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Antiquo
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:ANTIQUO
-------------------------------------

B2: A more advanced reconstruction made as part of a university
project, with details scientifically labeled. This effort would
instead take around twelve months to complete.

UTI ROGAS 15.
ABSTINEO 2.
ANTIQUO 9.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: ABSTINEO
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS. This option lies more within
the field of our real possibilities
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS; on Focus B I choose B2
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Antiquo. Knowing the costs of 3d and
architectrual modeling from my daily work I know that we lack funds
to do this.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Antiquo to both. I cannot approve
this until I am sure that we are not duplicating the efforts of
others with greater funding and superior resources.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Antiquo
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Antiquo. Inutile expenses.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:ANTIQUO
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas. If we're going to do it,
let's do it right.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Antiquo. 3D modelling is time consuming
and expensive. A subproject such as this should be properly planned
and have clear objectives
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:ANTIQUO
------------------------------------

Focus C: Financial contributions towards efforts to preserve the area
around the Palatine Temple of Magna Mater, as conducted by the City
of Rome and by other Italian authorities.

UTI ROGAS 22.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 2.
NO VOTE 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: As one possibile option
open to us, Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS if it would be
possible I would fully suport this.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS if it would be possible I
would also support this.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS. Surely this must be done with
a very realistic approach, especially in the financial area
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. This is however very loosely
put here, I would like to see more concrete plan and its relation to
other focus areas.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I would have preferred
that this item state clearly the type of recognition that we require.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna: no vote.
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas. I wish success to those who
will negotiate with theItalian authorities. Taking in consideration
my experience in this field, as former MMP coordinator, I have doubts
these negotiations will succeed.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas. I will not continue to
support this indefinitely if it becomes a big financial drain, but
for now I'll assent to some limited involvement. I expect the Aediles
to understand that we're not giving them a blank check here.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas. This, of course, largely
depends on the cooperation of the Italian authorities, which is not
at all certain, and on other matters
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS
--------------------------------------

Focus D: Financial support for specific areas adjoining the Temple of
Magna Mater grounds. For example, contributing to the construction of
a "reflection area" with park benches; an information kiosk; or
plaques to mark specific sites in the temple complex. Such an effort
on the part of Nova Roma would depend, as in Focus C, on the plans of
Italian authorities for the preservation of the area. The Aedilician
team working with the Italian authorities would review the plans and
determine what elements Nova Roma might be able to support.

UTI ROGAS 20.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 5.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: This needs to be explore
more before any commitments are made, but as one possible option to
allow open to us, Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, but we need to get
a working relation with the Italain authorities. If we can get such a
relation tat would give us a lot of advantages. That is why I think
we should concentrate most of our efforts to Italy and Rome. Not just
out of historical reasons, but because progress in Italy will mean
progress all over the world in our case.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas. Although I think this
might be a little too ambitious.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS but I agree we need to
get a working relation with the Italian authorities. I agree with
CFBQ on this.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:ANTIQVO. I wish that we will be able to
do this in some future, but not now. We are not financially prepared
for it.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. This is however very loosely
put here, I would like to see more concrete plan and its relation to
other focus areas.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I would have preferred
that this item state clearly the type of recognition that we require.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Antiquo. This is a laudable goal for a
long-range plan, though.
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas but the same doubts as to the
point D.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Abstieno. I don't think we know enough
about this, though I might support it in the future.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas. I particularly like this
option, but as noted in the proposal, this is not entirely in our
hands. I would also hope that some of the items above are not
disjunctive (either/or), but more inclusive.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS, Rome is our mother and we
should concentrate on such real projects in Rome and Italy.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Antiquo.
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS I'm glad it's recognized that
the Italian authorities are going to call the shots on this one.
----------------------------------------------------

Focus E: The production of a DVD on "Magna Mater in Rome."

UTI ROGAS 17.
ABSTINEO 2.
ANTIQUO 7.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas. This too might be a
bit too ambitious, but I'll support it.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: : UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:ANTIQVO. Yes, let's produce some items to
promote Nova Roma… But is this really the most important subject?
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. How does this relate to the
ongoing DVD production? The project has a DVD material produced with
only one 10 minute interview missing. Is this item the same as that
DVD or does this mean something different?
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Antiquo. I cannot approve this until
I am sure that we are not duplicating the efforts of others with
greater funding and superior resources.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:ANTIQUO, I am confused here because some
have noted that this is already in progress.
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Antiquo. Again, long-range plans with
achievable short-term goals and more ambitious long-term goals are
needed.
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas. It is already done in 90%
proportion because the fine dedication of Senator Saturninus. I
received a copy from Saturninus when I was aedile and it has an
excellent quality, good materials, interviews and images. In a word
it is professional product.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:ANTIQUO
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Abstieno
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Antiquo. A good long term plan,
however
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas. I believe that this is
already in progress under the capable supervision of Senator
Saturninus.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas. Would this be the same as the
nearly finished Magna Mater DVD or a different project?
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS ...to finishing the orginal
production of Saturninus et al...I don't see a need to reinvent the
wheel.
----------------------------------------------------

Focus F: Offer an online store that will sell fund raising Magna
Mater materials.

UTI ROGAS 24.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: : UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. How does this relate to the
ongoing and past discussions about webstore? There has already lot of
work done in this front too, and I would hate to see losing it.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas. Good option for promotion and
to bring some extra to the project.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS
------------------------------------------------

Focus G: Develop a plan to promote the Magna Mater Project through
the NR websites and by other means.

UTI ROGAS 24.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: This is absolutely
necessary in order to move further forward on this project. Adsentior
uti rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, this is of course
needed.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS, this makes good common
sense
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. Although I must say this
should be self-evident goal.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas. This is good method to promote
the project and to increase the donations level.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo: UTI ROGAS..although this was initiated
in 2006 under Sabinus Aedile, with some success
-----------------------------------------------

Secondly, we have to consider arrangements for the financial
management of Nova Roma's part in the MM Project. The Consules and
Aediles are to develop a plan that allows:

1. The Aediles and their quaestors to hold more direct control over
the project's financial management.

UTI ROGAS 20.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 5.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas. The
Aediles need to be as responsive as they are responsible for this
project. This policy statement looks to the Aediles, together with
the Consules and our authorized signatories to act efficiently
together to meet the needs of the project.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS This puts a
important burden on the Aediles which means that future Aediles need
to be selected with evn more consideration in the future as the
responsibilities grow.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Antiquo. There is no need for any
additional control.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I assume that we are
voting to approve the development of a plan, and not voting for the
execution of any element of that plan.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Antiquo. There already is control and I
don't understand what the term 'more control' it means in this case.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Antiquo. I don't see any purpose for such
additional bureoucracy
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:ANTIQUO Up to and including 2006 anyway,
they've always done a budget, and have submitted same to the Consular
Quaestores or Consuls for publication to the Senate, but I think any
large scale expenditures should be approved by the Senate. This
language is too vague I'm afraid...like signing a blank cheque.
-------------------------------------------------------

2. The integration of financial reporting on the Magna Mater Project
into Nova Roma, Inc. financial reports.

UTI ROGAS 23.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 2.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas. This
might be seen as a restatement of what is already in place, but it
belongs in the over all policy statement for the MMP, as with any
other projects we would wish to undertake.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, as a part of
making Nova Roma more professional it can't be said too many times.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Antiquo. They are already integrated.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I assume that we are
voting to approve the development of a plan, and not voting for the
execution of any element of that plan.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS, yes, we have a fiduciary
responsability to our cives and all donors
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS. I for one would like to know
EXACTLY where our money is going.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Antiquo. This has already been done
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo:UTI ROGAS
--------------------------------------

3. A scheduled project development, according to the means allocated
to the Aediles, by setting goals on sums to be allocated to different
stages of the project and setting target dates on when these
allocations are to be acquired and/or disbursed, in order to maintain
a running account of the project's progress.

UTI ROGAS 26.
ABSTINEO 0.
ANTIQUO 0.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas.
Absolutely necessary, as with any major project.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS to all of these if this
is simply a draft proposal with more details to follow but ANTIQUO
all of these items if we are doing any of them without knowing the
individual costs.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. This however should be self-
evident part of actions.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I assume that we are
voting to approve the development of a plan, and not voting for the
execution of any element of that plan.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas. This is really the first
step, along with raising funds.
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:VTI ROGAS. We need reports. That is the
one thing that has been lacking here
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo: UTI ROGAS
---------------------------------------

4. The Aediles are to develop a fund-raising plan for the Magna Mater
Project. Such a plan will be integrated and coordinated in any over-
all fund raising plan developed for Nova Roma.

UTI ROGAS 25.
ABSTINEO 0.
ANTIQUO 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas. This
too is absolutely necessary.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, as a part of
making Nova Roma more professional
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Uti rogas. This however should be self-
evident part of actions.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I assume that we are
voting to approve the development of a plan, and not voting for the
execution of any element of that plan.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Uti Rogas
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Uti rogas
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo: UTI ROGAS
----------------------------------------

5. In addition to specified allocations for different project goals,
the establishment of an operating fund for the Aediles to use at
their discretion, in order to cover incidental administrative
costs.This fund shall come from no more than seven per cent (7%) of
all funds received for the project in any given year, prior to
allocationto targeted goals.

UTI ROGAS 21.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 4.
Item passed.

Comments:
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus: Adsentior uti rogas. This
provision will give the Aediles and their Quaestores the flexibility
needed for contract maintainance. The provision especially takes into
consideration certain costs that we may incur, as with banking fees
related specifically to the Aedilician Fund. In meeting our
obligations in a timely manner we thus look to prevent any delays of
the project due to our own failing. The money comes from the
Aedilicia Fund itself, and does not impinge on funds set aside for
other projects. It instead informs any potential contributor what is
the maximum proporation of any donation that would go to meet Project
Management costs. If we tell a partner that we shall pay X amount,
then the Aedilis needs additional money set aside for him to cover
the cost of bank transfers or for any other fees. It is also the
responsibility of the Aediles to maintain records of the MMP, and
this too can at times runs into small fees. We are providing the
money needed by the Aediles to be flexible and also controlling just
how flexible we shall allow the Aediles to be with the total fund.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus: UTI ROGAS, with the arguments
of the Consul maior I will support this!
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus: Uti Rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus: UTI ROGAS
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius: UTI ROGAS
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: ANTIQUO
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus:VTI ROGAS
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:VTI ROGAS
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus:VTI ROGAS
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus:Antiquo. There is no need for this.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola:Uti rogas. I assume that we are
voting to approve the development of a plan, and not voting for the
execution of any element of that plan.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas:UTI ROGAS
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna:Uti Rogas
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus:Uti rogas. Somehow this operating fund can
avoid bureaucracy in some unwished emergency situations.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato: UTI ROGAS
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus:UTI ROGAS
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:Uti Rogas
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia:Uti Rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica:Vti rogas
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior: UTI ROGAS
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior:Abstineo.
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus:ANTIQVO
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar:VTI ROGAS
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus:UTI ROGAS
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica:Antiquo. There is no need for this
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo: UTI ROGAS These monies must of course
be well accounted for, in keeping with our responsibility to the
assidui/benefactors, for this privilege to continue.