> Could anyone say the contrary? I think that Nova Roma without

> All these things being said, I even don't want to say that we raise

>
> 1. Zero tax - for capite censi
> 2. Lower tax - for assidui of the 5 census classes (with small

> 3. Higher tax - for equestrians (with big privileges like

> As for the MSEMC military fee, that how it could be included in

>
> Lentulus Liviae et Hortensiae sal.
>
> We can say anything about what we are or are not: we are still a

>
> Of course, I don't want it, I just wanted to remember you, that we

>
> Valete!
>
>
> --- Mer 20/8/08, Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> I thank very much L. Salix Cicero for his prompt private response,
>
> but maybe I had better specify that I need an up-to-date flyer,

>
> no reference to micronations.
>
> Optime valete,
>
> L. Livia Plauta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Posta, news, sport, oroscopo: tutto in una sola pagina.
> Crea l'home page che piace a te!
> www.yahoo.it/latuapagina
>

>
> C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo s.p.d.,
>
> > Could anyone say the contrary? I think that Nova Roma without
> legions is an absurdity... I can't imagine how could we do so far
> without them?

> I guess in France Roman legions have a bad fame, if you read the
> adventures of Astérix (French comics) you understand the French

> of view about the Roman legions. French reenactors prefer the
> Napoleonic period or the Middle Age knights. Romans won the Gauls,
> but French heart is beating for the brave Gauls not for the
> disciplined Romans. Vercingetorix is preferred at Caesar, though
> Caesar was the winner. That is the romantic French spirit. :o)
> (..)
> Vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter.
>

>

> So, from any side we take this concept of 'micronation', we feel
> handling a sliding piece of soap. Let us then say that it is just a
> concept, which, as many ones, has been created to define a moving
> landscape and which has some defaults.
>
> One of them is that it devalorizes the group it calls 'micronation',
> with no added value.
>

> Responding to his post in the affirmative, Our nation (Nova

> legions for the expansion of the study of the Roman culture in all

A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo Cn. Cornelio Lentulo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Ahenobarbus Lentulo S.P.D.

    Taxes are a very large issue that involves all of Nova Roma and it goes a bit off this topic. But I must say that I disagree with the "multiple tax levels" idea; no need to make it more complicated than required. All of these things -- the Religio and its clergy, the political machine of the state, the legions, a commercial sector -- are required for a functioning Republic. Therefore, the taxes should not be voluntary; everyone should pay to support all of these functions of Nova Roma. If people wish to do more for certain things, they can; buying reenactment gear and going to events, or creating a business, or performing extra rituals as an appointed priest, for examples. But the base level of support should be borne by the entire citizenry, I believe. Without such a base of support, none of these items can grow to a level where people CAN give additional funds and effort to them.
    I think that I would support the idea that all magistrates that hold imperium should have some amount of military experience.  I would need to research it a bit more, as imperium in Nova Roma is a quite different from imperium in Roma antiqua, but the idea that those who would have ultimate command of the legiones should have experience IN those legiones is logical.

    ATS:  Indeed, more research is needed here.  I suspect you have not considered some of the consequences here, for this would mean that no one who is disabled, or elderly, but mentally alert, and no woman could hold an imperium-bearing magistracy.  Now, there are those who think that women are inferior, and fit only to be slaves for men, but from my other correspondence with you, I believe you are not among them.  Can the formerly active Maria Caeca not hold an imperium-bearing magistracy because she is legally blind, or because she has two X chromosomes?  Surely she cannot serve in a legion for either one of those reasons.  Should Po have had to gird on a sword before she became consul?  Or Cytheris Aege before she became aedilis?  At least I had a pugio before I became praetrix...

    And then there is the matter of financial possibility; armor is tremendously expensive, and many others would be shut out if they had to actually serve in a reenactment legion and bear heavy costs for equipment they did not even want.  We teachers can also tell you about having unwilling participants in a group; the military isn’t for everyone, and the draftees might not be pleased to have to serve.  Should being poor, or being in a wheelchair, or being deaf or blind or elderly or female (note the company here, ladies) disqualify one for serving as a magistrate of NR?  I hope not.  


And I would assume that Nova Roma would give command of any "legions of Nova Roma" to those who hold imperium (currently the consules, praetores, and aediles curules). Discussions concerning this should take place and will have to be explained in any document (lex, constitutional amendment, senatus consultum, etc.) that authorizes the creation of legiones.

   ATS:  Our magistrates don’t have enough to do without that?  Two aediles have resigned this year, and neither has been replaced, for no one wants to do the job; a couple of years ago, we had to coax and wheedle to get anyone to even run for the consulate.  Numerous other magistrates have resigned or disappeared.

    As a reenactor, I fully support this wonderful activity, and think that the legions with which I am familiar (III, XX, XXIV) are doing a fine job.  The newly-renamed IIII (not sponsored, so far as I know, nor is XX, which prefers independence) also seems at least somewhat active.  Legio XXIV has vexillationes in many places; it is headquartered in Pennsylvania, but has members in Connecticut and Michigan, inter alios.  It is thus possible that not every member of a legion must live within striking distance of all others in the legion, but putting salty ponds of large dimensions between one group and another does seem a bit much.  Those in Europe may be able to drive from France to Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, etc. (provided the Russkies keep their hands to themselves), but it is quite another matter to drive across the Atlantic.  Let me know when they bridge it...tunnel under it...  Heck, even South America is a long haul.  

    Related Event Notice:  The annual Roman Days major reenactment will take place at George Mason University in northern Virginia the last weekend in September.  Several of your magistrates should be in attendance, as they usually are.  Gallio will have his catapult handy, and there should be a lot of guys in armor.  Not likely any women will be, however.  Costumes, yes; armor, not likely.  

Optime vale!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Tucson, Arizona, US, America Austroccidentalis
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Valete.  


----- Original Message ----
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:15:29 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Periodical Review of Sponsored Legions

Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio sal.

>>> It's funny; I was discussing this with a friend recently, and we came to this same idea. I believe that Nova Roma should have its own legions. <<<

Could anyone say the contrary? I think that Nova Roma without legions is an absurdity... I can't imagine how could we do so far without them?

>>> I think I'm more of the opinion that taxes should be raised <<<<

Every sensible people who knows something about association can see that NR  taxes are too low. I cite a Hungarian example again, forgive me that, I can speak only about my own personal experience.

Hungary is a relatively poor country, our per capita GDP is 19,000 USD while that of the USA is 45,800. My reenactment unit is located in one of the poorest regions of Hungary. That said, the annual membership fee in the Gladius Reenactor Association (Legio XXI Rapax) is 30 USD. And this is a little group in a little poor country, and it is not even national-wide association but local. The other reenactor association in which I participated (19th century Austro-Hungarian unit) requires 60 USD from their members in each year.

And we, an international association, with the greatest possible ideas about modern Romanitas and its promotion, are really afraid of asking more than 14 USD from the American members? Or 6,50 from the Hungarians?

All these things being said, I even don't want to say that we raise the taxes. Our cheep fee is somewhat attracting. What I would suggest is to create different LEVELS of the taxes.

1. Zero tax - for capite censi
2. Lower tax - for assidui of the 5 census classes (with small privileges)
3. Higher tax - for equestrians (with big privileges like eligibility, JSTOR account, rights for merchant activity, personal facebook-like site in the NR website - just ideas...)

As for the MSEMC military fee, that how it could be included in this system is a question, but if I think more, I will be able to give a good answer. It depends on how it will be paid: by everybody, or voluntarily, or only by those who want to participate in political life?

Cura, ut valeas!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Quaestor
Legatus Pro Paretore

> En fait tu serais étonné de la popularité que rencontrent les

> existant en France : cela fait deux étés où j'ai le privilège de
> participer à des réunions de reconstitution, et les Romains
> rencontrent un vif succès, participant même à des manifestations
> multi-âges avec Vikings, Napoléoniens et autres G.I..
> Nous aurons l'occasion d'en reparler !

>>> I suspect you have not considered some of the consequences here, for this would mean that no one who is disabled, or elderly, but mentally alert, and no woman could hold an imperium-bearing magistracy. <<<

>>>> And then there is the matter of financial possibility; armor is tremendously expensive, <<<

>>> the military isn’t for everyone, and the draftees might not be pleased to have to serve. <<<

>>> Yes, it is in no way the one way. There are plenty of activities

>>>In NR there is no ordo equester in that sense: we have only a

>>> The reenactors are not little boys playing the war, however. I

----- Original Message -----
From: "Annia Minucia Marcella" <annia@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Nova Roman Legion


> Salvete,
>
> For those that think females would have a problem being in the legion, I
> would like to point out that there are females serving in reenacting
> legions already. They are medics, merchants, wives of soldiers, etc.
> Not everyone has to be in armor to be in the legion.
>
> Valete
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
> Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
> http://novabritannia.org
> http://myspace.com/novabritannia
> http://ciarin.com/governor
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.7/1631 - Release Date: 24/08/08
12:15 p.m.
>
>

 

Salvete:

I would be interested in seeing a "legion" or something of the sort created as a Nova Roma legion and NOT as reenactment in the strict sense of the term.  Something where a Nova Roma citizen didn't have to role-play being a soldier but could actually be a "soldier" (more akin to what the fraternal orders in the USA have had or currently have with thier uniformed orders/units) .  Legion activities of antiquity could be done, but would be done to pay homage to the past and not as a recreation of the past.  I've not had much interest in the legions I've seen because I'm not interested in role-playing a Roman citizen (or Roman soldier) when I already AM a (new) Roman citizen.  Likewise I am (ontologically) Caeso Fabus Buteo Modainus.  I wouldn't want to be KFBM and then role-play a legion persona as KFBM.  Furthermore, a Nova Roma legion should have both men and women since highest offices and the senate are open to people of both genders.  This would be a break from traditional legion practices (to my understanding) .  Such a practice could start out as a group of lictores who (at NR events) perform ceremonial duties. 

As Nova Roma does more live activities having a "legion" that is a part of Nova Roma and not a seperate reenactment legion is something that needs to be addressed.  Likewise, having religio ceremonia in conjunction with a Nova Roma legion would be appropriate but would NOT be reenactment, it would be the real thing.

Valete:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@ yahoo.it> wrote:

 

Cn. Lentulus Minuciae Marcellae sal. >>> For those that think females would have a problem being in the legion, I would like to point out that there are females serving in reenacting legions already. They are medics, merchants, wives of soldiers, etc. Not everyone has to be in armor to be in the legion. <<< Thank you very much, this was what I answered to Scholastica if you see my message! Cura, ut valeas! Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quaestor, Sacerdos, Accensus, Scriba etc.

 

________________________________________________________
VÁSÁROLNA? SEGÍTÜNK! Igényeljen hitelkártyát online és élvezze Ön is a vásárlás szabadságát!

A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo suo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.  
 

Cn. Lentulus Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

>>>  I suspect you have not considered some of the consequences here, for this would mean that no one who is disabled, or elderly, but mentally alert, and no woman could hold an imperium-bearing magistracy. <<<

I thought all of these. This is exactly why I included the so called MSEMC expletive fee in my proposal.

    ATS:  Ahem, amice:  in English, the word expletive means a word processed on the opposite side of the brain from normal speech, one not used in writing or in public by most educated people.  I have heard, however, that such vocabulary items appear on one of our NR lists, one limited to adults...and have seen excursions of same in places one does not anticipate that sort of vulgarity.  

A valid reenactment service could be done in TWO ways: 1) participating in a NR reenactor group; 2) paying the Military Service Expletive fee. Both would be valid ways to complete the military service, both for men and women. No one would be compelled to become a reenactor: this is the main point of my proposal. I repeat: no one, not a consul or any other. What would be obligatory is some "contribution" to the cause of the Roman military reenactment, either financially, or physically, it would not count.

And there are even additional solutions: reenactment units usually have civilian sections.

    ATS:  Some do; Legio XX (independent) and Legio XXIV (sponsored) do, and I am a member of both.  The legion nearest to me, however, does not appear to have such an appendage.  

NR legions also can have them, and this is the place where women, too, can take part. Their participation, however not armed, would be accepted as a legionary service equally to the men. And even men, who hate the armour, sword but want to participate physically, can be civilian members of the legion. The important element is that they MUST be civilian members of a legion, ie. to support the work of a legion, and not an entirely civilian group. These people will be considered NR legionary.

    ATS:  And if they don’t want even to be associated with a reenactment legion, but just be civilian reenactors?  

And finally, this obligatory service, either through financial ways or physical participation, would be required for a certain age bracket, for example from 18 to 60, or something similar.

    ATS:  And some people are disabled before the big 6-0; I have a student in a wheelchair, and as noted earlier, at least one citizen who was quite active is legally blind.  It is difficult to ascertain how someone who can barely see at all could manage to make or wear a costume...or cook Roman food...how someone in a wheelchair could navigate the handicapped-inaccessible sites at which reenactments are held...

So my summary answer to your doubts: there would be the following way to complete the reenactment legionary service in NR:

1) Paying the MSEMC expletive fee
2) Participation in a NR legion as a soldier
3) Participation in a NR legion as a civilian
4) Elder or too young people have no obligation at all

I even think that the MSEMC could be paid two ways: 1) to the state treasury to the Reenactment Found, 2) or directly to a chosen NR legion preferred by the payer. This would mean that those who pay directly to a legion can be considered members of the specific legion, as legionary without costume: unarmed. If these unarmed members of a specific NR legion even participate in the work of the legion with helping the infrastructure, organizing, contacting authorities, providing cars, tents, making food in events, distributing flyers etc, so if they physically participate but have no Roman dresses or can't/don't want to wear costume, they can be even appointed as unarmed officers of the legion, not just simple members.

>>>> And then there is the matter of financial possibility; armor is tremendously expensive, <<<

This is why NR should support them. This is why the MSEMC expletive fee is very important.

    Others seem to have addressed this point.  We don’t have THAT kind of cash, inter alia.  Galeae militi circa D $ US solvendi...

>>> the military isn’t for everyone, and the draftees might not be pleased to have to serve.  <<<

Yes, you're completely right and this is why participating in reenactment is not obligatory according to the proposal. Contribution is required, either financially or physically, either as civilian accompany to a legion or a legionary. No one expects military reenacting from everyone.

    ATS:  Even civilian reenactment is not everyone’s cup of tea.  

Cura, ut valeas saluberrime!

Et tu!  

__________________________________________________

Scholastica Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


Ahenobarbus Scholasticae Omnibusque S.P.D.

    Can of worms, meet can opener. Pssssht! ;-)

>ATS:  Indeed, more research is needed here. I suspect you have not considered some of the consequences here

    Of course I haven't. This is called "brainstorming" or -- in more vulgar terms -- "mental diarrhea". I don't think through every possibility before posting or I would never post.

>for this would mean that no one who is disabled, or elderly, but mentally alert,
>and no woman could hold an imperium-bearing magistracy.

    As you said in your message, our private messages have convinced you that I am not sexist. You are right; I am pretty darned egalitarian with regards to gender (as a male I can't bear children so there are differences, but that is neither here nor there ;-) ).

    ATS2:  I know you aren’t, but there are some of those critters about.  

That being said, and this being 2761 A.U.C. and not 61 A.U.C., I would personally have no problem with a woman in armor and bearing weapons.

    ATS2:  Good.  Some of the legions do have women, and when we filmed at Nashville, I heard that a couple of the soldiers were women.  I have no objections, and once was even asked by our authenticity-guru commander to join the ranks...but I was wearing a long khiton, and would have had to change quickly for that, even with borrowed armor.   The men’s tunica I had with me was not quite sufficient...


Having trained in martial arts, I have had my backside solidly whooped by females; they can fight!

    ATS2:  Some can; but don’t look at me.  My whupping is with a red pen.  In a couple of days, you will join the legions of Wheelock students in the macro world, and are welcome to join the eight students already registered in GL I...

My aikido sensei was a fit and amazing 74-year-old woman who can defeat men and women MUCH larger and stronger than her.

    ATS2: Wow!  More power to her!  


This is one of the places where I am less strict with regards to reconstructionism.
    As for disabilities, that varies. As an aside, my overall approach to most of life is to get 80% of the way to my goals, THEN start getting picky and detailed. As it has been said, "completing 80% takes 20% of the energy, but the remaining 20% takes 80% of the energy"; this is unequivocally true in almost every endeavour in the universe. But, to try to respond to your comment, there are non-combat operations in any military unit. I didn't say that a requirement would be anything like, "be able to defend, with gladius and full-size scutum, against 5 attackers" or "must be able to throw pilum at least 30 yards".

    ATS2:  One of the legions in California, which we had to decertify for extreme departure from the expected behavior of those sponsored by NR, states that promotion to, say, centurion, requires defeating two of three existing centurions with whom one is matched in a real fight.  


It has taken me many years to move my point-of-view from a "knowledge-based POV" to an "experience-based POV". I am speaking from the latter point-of-view.
    Maybe I went a bit too far talking about imperium and the like.

ATS2:  Could be...it would exclude some worthy people.  

This can be ignored for now. The important thing, in my opinon, is that Nova Roma have its own legions, under control of the magistrates and/or Senators of Nova Roma. That is my main point. That is the 80%.

    ATS2:  Maybe.  

>ATS:  Our magistrates don’t have enough to do without that?

    I don't know. Do they?

    ATS2:  They seem to.  I can guarantee you that AT faculty have plenty of things to occupy them, and so do some scribae.  

>Two aediles have resigned this year, and neither has been replaced,
>for no one wants to do the job; a couple of years ago, we had to coax
>and wheedle to get anyone to even run for the consulate.  Numerous
>other magistrates have resigned or disappeared.

    This is yet another can of "Campbell's Hearty Worm Soup".

    ATS2:  One of our Celtic reenactors, Steve P., made a nice scutum with a takeoff on Campbell’s soup...something about Roman soldier stew or the like.  His falx shredded the scuta quite thoroughly.  

Why weren't suffect elctions called, multiple times if need be? (I know they were, earlier this year.)

    ATS2:  There were at least two calls for the plebeian aedile, but no one answered.  

If no one runs, do it again. And again. If any positions should be filled via draft after a couple of unsuccessful suffect elections, maybe the magistrates should be; grab a Senator who has no other position (are there any?)

    ATS2:  We may appoint successors if the vacancy occurs in the last quarter of the year, if memory serves.  Some senatores don’t appear in curia at all, and some have even left the mailing list.  

and put them there to serve the remainder of the term. Yet more brainstorming here...don't beat me up for not having pages of details. ;-)

    ATS2:  One elected plebeian aedilis never showed up to take his oath of office, and at least one praetor completely disappeared, and that, too, in a year when the other was very little in evidence.  A shame, too, as he is an excellent Latinist...  ;-)

Optime valete!

Et tu, et vos!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Tucson, Arizona, US, America Austroccidentalis
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com


 
 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/57156;

> Salvete omnes,
> If we want to create a legion in the Provincia Mexico, which should
> be the proper steps to start, and what kind of authorization, and
> from whom, should we need?

>>>It is hardly understandable why Nova Roma does not own a reenactor

>>>So, if only 20 citizens would physically participate in the NR

> >>> The reenactors are not little boys playing the war, however. I
> know it is difficult to understand fot those who don't share this
> passion. I think it' better if I leave this question unanswered.<<<
>
> You were right, because my sentence was just a joke.

> But we can do the best we can
> with these 27 provinces.
>
> Cohors I : Provinces 1, 2 and 3.
> Cohors II : Provinces 4, 5 and 10.
> Cohors III : provinces 6, 8 and 9.
> Cohors IV : Provinces 7 and 11.
> Cohors V : Provinces 12, 26 and 27.
> Cohors VI : Provinces 13 and 14.
> Cohors VIII : Provinces 15, 16, 19, 20 and 25.
> Cohors IX : Provinces 21, 17, 18.
> Cohors X : Provinces 22, 23 and 24.

>

A. Tullia Scholastica L. Liviae Plautae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 


Salvete omnes,
I find Modianus' idea interesting, and I would be the first to apply to become a lictrix,


    ATS:  It seems, however, that applications for lictores curiati (not sure if that is the correct term, however) will have a long wait, for Cassius had been appointing these, and he has chosen to take a vacation from us.  There is also a matter of his removal from the relevant posts...so who would appoint lictores/lictrices?   I’d apply, too...


after my mandate as tribune is over, of course (once we had lictors aplying laws would become so much easier ...).
Anyway. as much as I would like to be a legionary, having women legionaries would strongly limit a legion's chances to be invited to festivals, because it's an antihistoricism even the most ignorant person can notice.

    ATS: My dear, it is entirely possible that this would not be noticed.  Some women can get away with appearing as men, especially when wearing a helmet and lorica.  For example, some women are small upstairs, and could probably get away with this.  Remember, too, that the soldiers often wear bracae...now, maybe they would have to stuff some appropriate contraptions in their subligacula and leave the Gillette behind, but if a woman in the middle of a testudo is wearing a segmentata, galea, and bracae, who would be the wiser?  I heard that at least two of the soldiers filmed at Nashville were in fact women, and I was invited to participate by a legionary commander legendary for his authenticity...and no one would mistake me for a man, even if I were encased in a lorica.  


Never mind if a legion is only composed of 10 people,  if their clothes are chemically dyed cotton, if their equipment is brass when it should be bronze, if their armour is stainless steel, if their women are dressed in polyester clothes that have no relation to any historical outfit. Nobody notices that, as here in Savaria.

    ATS:  Some might not notice, or complain, if the costumes were tie-dyed.  We had people during our Italian festival this year representing ancient Rome by wearing plastic armor, whereas we have a genuine reenactment legion less than 50 miles away in Canada.  It is, however, difficult enough to obtain fabrics which are reasonably suitable for reenactment purposes; we have to use the chemically-dyed ones which most closely approximate the ancient palette.  



 But have women legionaries and people will start to complain.

    ATS:  Do I detect a hint of sexism?  And it is just possible that some women did, in fact, participate in the Roman military.  If memory serves, until recently we didn’t know that they had gladiatrices, either.  

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta

Vale, et valete.  


"David Kling (Modianus)" <tau.athanasios@...> írta:

           
             

 

Salvete:

I would be interested in seeing a "legion" or something of the sort created as a Nova Roma legion and NOT as reenactment in the strict sense of the term.  Something where a Nova Roma citizen didn't have to role-play being a soldier but could actually be a "soldier" (more akin to what the fraternal orders in the USA have had or currently have with thier uniformed orders/units).  Legion activities of antiquity could be done, but would be done to pay homage to the past and not as a recreation of the past.  I've not had much interest in the legions I've seen because I'm not interested in role-playing a Roman citizen (or Roman soldier) when I already AM a (new) Roman citizen.  Likewise I am (ontologically) Caeso Fabus Buteo Modainus.  I wouldn't want to be KFBM and then role-play a legion persona as KFBM.  Furthermore, a Nova Roma legion should have both men and women since highest offices and the senate are open to people of both genders.  This would be a break from traditional legion practices (to my understanding).  Such a practice could start out as a group of lictores who (at NR events) perform ceremonial duties.  
 
As Nova Roma does more live activities having a "legion" that is a part of Nova Roma and not a seperate reenactment legion is something that needs to be addressed.  Likewise, having religio ceremonia in conjunction with a Nova Roma legion would be appropriate but would NOT be reenactment, it would be the real thing.
 
Valete:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
 

        
   
 
       
             

 

 Cn. Lentulus Minuciae Marcellae sal.


>>> For those that think females would have a problem being in the legion, I
  would like to point out that there are females serving in reenacting
 legions already.  They are medics, merchants, wives of soldiers, etc.
 Not everyone has to be in armor to be in the legion. <<<


Thank you very much, this was what I answered to Scholastica if you see my message!

Cura, ut valeas!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
 Legatus pro praetore Pannoniae
Quaestor, Sacerdos, Accensus, Scriba etc.

    
     
              

 

 
     
            

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   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/57175;

>>> Well, Redux used to mean "bringing back" but it is true

>>> However, I think we MUST allow each group to choose their own

>>>So I think that we can have more cohorts of the same legion

>>> Names are very personal matter. I am very sure that compelling a

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes
>
> Even if it can't be done in every location, in the places where it
> can exist it would effectively promote meetings in person by Nova
> Roman citizens.

Which is what the current sponsored Legions are doing. What would the difference be?


> I don't know where T. Scribonius Agrippa got his information, but if
> someone told him that a cohors in Moscow has to spend 200-400 dollars
> a month they were probably just testing his gullibility. A cohors, or
> a legion, has big one-time expenses for buying or making equipment
> (making being often cheaper than buying), but there's no way they
> could spend such big sums monthly, unless they were consuming real
> pila all the time (but nobody does that).
> So 500-1000 dollars would actually help a lot in the equipment -
> making phase, as it could cover equipment for 3-10 legionaries.

Really? 5000-1000 to cover equipment for 3-10 Legionnaires? Have you see what it costs
to equip ONE Miles?

> Imperial-time iron loricae segmentatae and coolus helmets are not the
> only equipment that can come into question. There are much cheaper
> solutions, like leather loricae segmentatae, loricae hamatae (chain
> mail), Montefortino helmets. The further back we go in time, to the
> republican times, the cheaper and easier to make the equipments gets.

Leather Loricae? Could you show some historical proof such existed? A Republican Scutum
runs for $300+. Hamatae from $200+ and up. A Montefortino 200+ and the list goes on.

Older doesn't mean cheaper. If some cases it means more since there hasn't been a call
for Republican equipment.

There already exists an tremendous amount of effort and organization in the sponsored
Legions. Maybe more effort should be made by NR to work with said Legions and recruit
others instead of recreating the wheel.

Optime valete

Ti. Horatius
Immuness Adiutore Cornicularium
Legio III Cyrenaica

Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella
Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
http://novabritannia.org
http://myspace.com/novabritannia
http://ciarin.com/governor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes
>
> Even if it can't be done in every location, in the places where it
> can exist it would effectively promote meetings in person by Nova
> Roman citizens.

Which is what the current sponsored Legions are doing. What would the difference be?

> I don't know where T. Scribonius Agrippa got his information, but if
> someone told him that a cohors in Moscow has to spend 200-400 dollars
> a month they were probably just testing his gullibility. A cohors, or
> a legion, has big one-time expenses for buying or making equipment
> (making being often cheaper than buying), but there's no way they
> could spend such big sums monthly, unless they were consuming real
> pila all the time (but nobody does that).
> So 500-1000 dollars would actually help a lot in the equipment -
> making phase, as it could cover equipment for 3-10 legionaries.

Really? 5000-1000 to cover equipment for 3-10 Legionnaires? Have you see what it costs
to equip ONE Miles?

> Imperial-time iron loricae segmentatae and coolus helmets are not the
> only equipment that can come into question. There are much cheaper
> solutions, like leather loricae segmentatae, loricae hamatae (chain
> mail), Montefortino helmets. The further back we go in time, to the
> republican times, the cheaper and easier to make the equipments gets.

Leather Loricae? Could you show some historical proof such existed? A Republican Scutum
runs for $300+. Hamatae from $200+ and up. A Montefortino 200+ and the list goes on.

Older doesn't mean cheaper. If some cases it means more since there hasn't been a call
for Republican equipment.

There already exists an tremendous amount of effort and organization in the sponsored
Legions. Maybe more effort should be made by NR to work with said Legions and recruit
others instead of recreating the wheel.

Optime valete

Ti. Horatius
Immuness Adiutore Cornicularium
Legio III Cyrenaica

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
> It's not by chance that military service was required before the
> cursus honorum, as a career in the military would weed out the
> mentally unbalanced people, the ones uncapable of cooperating with
> others, and those uncapable of taking decisions.
> If none of these could become a magistrate in NR that would solve
> half our problems at once.
>

That's true, _but_. Serving in a reenactment legion is not even
compared with serving in the real roman legion where it goes to
cooperating, taking decisions etc. And what about those who can't be a
legionary? How does just paying a little fee shows that they have
required abilities?

>
> Unfortunately we do have logistic problems that make it impossible
> for every citizen to have access to a cohors, so that's why a very
> small subsitutive fee could be useful, even if it's not the best of
> solutions.
>

Well, we already have taxes. Without paying it, you can't be a
magistrate. If the proposal will become law, we'll get into troubles
with assidui status. Also, this little fee equals tax rate for
Sarmatia. I would gladly pay even 10 times more, but i'd better donate
this money to Magna Mater or something more useful, for my $5 can't
really help our legion.

> I don't know where T. Scribonius Agrippa got his information, but if
> someone told him that a cohors in Moscow has to spend 200-400 dollars
> a month they were probably just testing his gullibility. A cohors, or
> a legion, has big one-time expenses for buying or making equipment
> (making being often cheaper than buying), but there's no way they
> could spend such big sums monthly, unless they were consuming real
> pila all the time (but nobody does that).
> So 500-1000 dollars would actually help a lot in the equipment -
> making phase, as it could cover equipment for 3-10 legionaries.
>
> Imperial-time iron loricae segmentatae and coolus helmets are not the
> only equipment that can come into question. There are much cheaper
> solutions, like leather loricae segmentatae, loricae hamatae (chain
> mail), Montefortino helmets. The further back we go in time, to the
> republican times, the cheaper and easier to make the equipments gets.
>

But i believe the "newer" equipment is just better. We don't wish to
have a situation when foreign legions laugh "hey, here arrives NR
legion with stone axes, let's make some fun of them!", do we?

>
> So, you see, the Nova Roma legion can actually be organized, and it
> needn't be very expensive. Every obstacle can be overcome where
> there's a will.
>

Even 500-1000 $ is not too small summ for Nova Roma i'm afraid. And
still that's not enough.

>
> The only matter that can be still open to discussion is whether it
> should be compulsory (even with the substitutive fee) or not.
>

No, not now at least. As for me, i'm going to join a reenactment group
anyway, so
it is not about defending myself. It will just cause more troubles and
will give almost nothing.

The truth is while we have no land we don't need any military defence.
And if we had, we still wouldn't need an army equipped with swords and
shields.

Valete.
T. Scribonius Agrippa

> Leather Loricae? Could you show some historical proof such existed?

> runs for $300+. Hamatae from $200+ and up. A Montefortino 200+ and

>
> There already exists an tremendous amount of effort and

> Legions. Maybe more effort should be made by NR to work with said

> others instead of recreating the wheel.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/26/2008 1:45:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> pjtuloup@... writes:
>
> ATS: If memory serves, until recently we didn¹t know that they had
> gladiatrices, either.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, 1971 was the year the Pompeaian discovery was made.
>
> Fabius
>
>
>
> **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find
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