Salve Lyn,

You so are deserving of respect and it would be an honor to have you
join as a citizen, I do hope you reconsider. You are a person of
strength, fortitude and talent and we need citizens like you.
I am delighted and honored that you continue to share such news with
us! I look forward to more!

Cura ut valeas

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@...> wrote:
>
> Salve, Julia, et gratias tibi ago.
>
>
>
> I am deeply honored by your comments. I scour the Net daily for
such news
> and am delighted to share it.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> ld
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
> Of L Julia Aquila
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:28 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder
discovered,
> maybe
>
>
>
> Salve Lyn,
>
> This is a very good and informative post! I just wanted to say I
have
> enjoyed the information you post and have learned a few details I
may
> have missed. And yes I do double check as part of my eternally
> continuing education and I always try to give credit for
> disagreements between credible scholars.
> Thank you.
>
> Optime vale,
>
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
ps.com, "Lyn
> Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote:
> >
> > From the Times:
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard Owen, in Rome
> >
> > Archeologists say that they have found the underground passage in
> which the
> > Emperor Caligula was murdered by his own Praetorian Guard to put
an
> end to
> > his deranged reign of terror.
> >
> > Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (AD12-AD41), known by his
> nickname
> > Caligula (Little Boots), was the third emperor of the Roman
Empire
> after
> > Augustus and Tiberius, and like them a member of the Julio-
Claudian
> dynasty.
> >
> >
> > His assassination was the result of a conspiracy by members of
the
> Senate
> > who hoped to restore the Roman Republic. However the Praetorian
> Guard
> > declared Caligula's uncle Claudius emperor instead, thus
preserving
> the
> > monarchy.
> >
> > Maria Antonietta Tomei, a Rome archeologist, said a cryptoportico
or
> > underground corridor discovered beneath the imperial palaces on
the
> Palatine
> > Hill matched exactly the description given by the Rome historian
> Suetonius,
> > who says that the Emperor was stabbed to death after watching an
> > entertainment. He left via the passageway, where the Praetorian
> Guard led by
> > its commander, Cassius Chaerea, was lying in wait.
> >
> > Professor Tomei said she was "absolutely convinced" that the
> cryptportico
> > was the one in which Caligula met his end. Although it bore
> builders' stamps
> > from the time of Claudius, it already existed at the time of
> Caligula, and
> > had only been restructured by his uncle and successor.
> >
> > "It is clear that it was Claudius and not Nero, as commonly
> thought, who
> > gave shape to the imperial palace complex on the Palatine Hill,"
> she said.
> >
> > According to Suetonius and the Jewish historian Josephus,
Caligula's
> > assassins also stabbed to death his wife, Caesonia, and killed
> their infant
> > daughter, Julia Drusilla, by smashing her head against a wall.
> Caligula's
> > body was burnt and the ashes interred at the Mausoleum of
Augustus,
> which is
> > still standing near the Tiber. Now a ruin, its tombs were
ransacked
> during
> > the Barbarian invasions of the fifth century.
> >
> > Unlike his father Germanicus, a widely admired and upright Roman
> general,
> > Caligula became a byword for cruelty, excess, insanity and sexual
> > perversion. His nickname derived from the fact that as a small
boy
> he
> > dressed up in a miniature uniform while accompanying his father
on
> military
> > campaigns.
> >
> > Some scholars maintain that Caligula murdered Tiberius to ensure
the
> > succession, or at least ordered his murder. On becoming emperor
> Caligula was
> > at first hailed as the son of Germanicus, but his behaviour became
> > increasingly psychopathic after he fell ill in AD37 and nearly
> died. He had
> > all possible opponents, real and imagined - including members of
> his own
> > family - banished or killed, and seized their properties.
> >
> > He also proclaimed himself a living god. According to Suetonius,
> Caligula
> > had incestuous sex with with his sisters Agrippina, Drusilla and
> Julia
> > Livilla. He also supposedly tried to confer the title of consul
on
> his
> > favourite horse, Incitatus, who had a stable of marble and a
collar
> of
> > precious stones, and had flakes of gold mixed into his oats. Some
> historians
> > have suggested, however, that such stories were embellished or
even
> invented
> > by Caligula's many enemies.
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1728 - Release Date:
10/17/2008
> 8:07 AM
>

Salve cousin Sabinus!

I had to publicly demonstrate my support for you as Censor! A better
man is hard to find!

Optime vale!

Julia Aquila


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL•SEVERVS
<marcusiuliusseverus@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes,
>  
> I made an announcement in the past days, offering my support to the

candidacy of P. Constantinus Placidus for the Censorship. I thought
that he was a good candidate, although he hasn't had any previous
experience as a magistrate.

> Now, the situation is quite different. Since T. Iulius Sabinus

Consul, an outstanding Nova Roman, a cives who is an example of
Romanitas for us all, decided to announce his candidacy to the
Censorship, I will support him and I invite all the citizens of Nova
Roma to vote for Sabinus.

> I already offered my apologies and an explanation to Placidus, in a

private message, but I want this to be also known in these public
fora.

>  
> Valete optime,
>
> M•IVL•SEVERVS
> PRÆTOR•NOVÆ•ROMÆ
>
> SENATOR
> PRÆTOR•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Dear Lyn, This is an answer to two of your posts. Firstly about your involvement in Nova Roma,. then about your Gaius, the Hungarian vizsla. I think you should have to join Nova Roma: your place is here among us. Religion doesn't count at all as for citizenship: I tell you this a pontifex and sacerdos whose main point here is the religion. You would be most welcome here and I personally think it would be a mistake if you did not join. Here are the points you have to consider before joining Nova Roma: http://novaroma.org/nr/FAQ and: http://novaroma.org/nr/Declaration_(Nova_Roma) And now, about the magyar vizsla. You wrote: >>> The vizsla’s name is Gaius. When he came into the house, my brother said, “Hi, guy” and it stuck. Besides, the dog is wonderful, and on the night he arrived, I was involved in a fine conversation with the deeply respected Gaius Petronius Dexter. I took it as an omen. <<<< Congratulations for the name! I can't help adding a little comment. I'm Hungarian, i.e. "magyar" as it is said in our language, just like your dog. My girlfriend  Popillia had a magyar vizsla who just died shortly before you came here and asked us about the future name of your dog. Popillia's vizsla's name was Fácáncsalogató Bátor Sára aka "Jessie" as everybody called her. We followed with interest your posts about your dog's name and congratulate you for the really nice and convenient choice. I must say Popillia was very sad bacause of the death of Jessie and she was heartened by reading about Gaius' story. Cura, ut valeas! Cn. Lentulus --- Mar 21/10/08, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> ha scritto: Da: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder discovered, maybe A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Martedì 21 ottobre 2008, 10:54 Salve Lyn, You so are deserving of respect and it would be an honor to have you join as a citizen, I do hope you reconsider. You are a person of strength, fortitude and talent and we need citizens like you. I am delighted and honored that you continue to share such news with us! I look forward to more! Cura ut valeas Julia Aquila --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@.. .> wrote: > > Salve, Julia, et gratias tibi ago. > > > > I am deeply honored by your comments. I scour the Net daily for such news > and am delighted to share it. > > > > Vale, > > ld > > > > > > _____ > > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf > Of L Julia Aquila > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:28 PM > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder discovered, > maybe > > > > Salve Lyn, > > This is a very good and informative post! I just wanted to say I have > enjoyed the information you post and have learned a few details I may > have missed. And yes I do double check as part of my eternally > continuing education and I always try to give credit for > disagreements between credible scholars. > Thank you. > > Optime vale, > > Julia Aquila > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com, "Lyn > Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote: > > > > From the Times: > > > > > > > > Richard Owen, in Rome > > > > Archeologists say that they have found the underground passage in > which the > > Emperor Caligula was murdered by his own Praetorian Guard to put an > end to > > his deranged reign of terror.

---

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SALVE   The cristians wanted to destroy ROMA and its Civilization; they called it "the new Babilon".They attemted to sabotage ROMA in every possible way, for example inciting people to desert the Army and disobey the Roman Laws.     From a Religious point of view, the problem is only for the cristians, as it is THEM who do not accept and RESPECT other Gods. Would the cristians be available to let the "pagans" honor their gods in their churches? For example in the PANTHEON(ALL GODS)?   VALETE OMNES   LVCIVS Q. VESTA --- Lun 20/10/08, Avv. Claudio Guzzo <claudio.guzzo@...> ha scritto: Da: Avv. Claudio Guzzo <claudio.guzzo@...> Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] romana or "pagana"?INTRINSIC CONTRADDICTION! A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Lunedì 20 ottobre 2008, 21:08 Salve. "libero" sa-mann@libero. it   picusma  on Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:28 pm (PDT) wrote: (omissis) The Religion of Rome, of Rome as a state, as a government, was the "pagan" one. Since the Religion of Rome as a state stopped being the pagan one, we indeed had Christian citizens. So why not having christian citizens today? But, and this is the point, if Nova Roma is somehow a State with a Government, what is the Religion of this government? If it is pagan, it´s a nonsense to be christians and citizens at the same time. If it´s not pagan, I don´t see the problem of being a christian citizen. Are we speaking about sacra privata or publica? This is the point, the only point. Gallus Solaris Alexander ACC: These questions have had no answers... anyway, during the empire age sacra publica changed: Mithra, Christus and other religiones (cultus of the imperator, etc.) became very important and there were persecutions against ancient cultus. Nova Roma could get the roman (syncretic) spirit of pax deorum by (christian) roman religio now, that's why I think that NR pontifex should be the roman pope (Benedictus XVI). Vale Appius Claudius Priscus ITALIA (Neapolis)

---

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Cn. Lentulus Lynae Dowling sal. >>> But I am training him in Latin and when finished, will take him to schools to show that this is indeed a living language. Now, if he’ll just learn “Sede!” <<< It sounds amazing. Do you have the necessary Latin knowledge to that? If yes, you can write in Latin, you should be a member of the Nova Roma Latina mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma-Latina/ If not, you can be still interested in joining the Sodalitas Latinitatis: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas/ If you have any question about Latin I'm here and there to help you.   >>> Certain really old-fashioned people (raising a hand) tend to address people by praenomen and nomen, rather than by cognomen. Does anyone here prefer that custom? <<< You can read about using Roman names here: http://novaroma.org/nr/Using_Roman_names Generally speaking, the polite way to address somebody is to use the praenomen and nomen combination. Using the praenomen and cognomen combination you can address people with noble names. The praenomen only is more than too confidential. The nomen only is a normal way of addressing less formally, but people with noble names can't be addressed so. The cognomen only is for close friends and nobles. Who is a Roman noble? See this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Consuls If you find the same nomen and cognomen combination in this list than the person you are going to address, then this person is a noble, and you should address him/her by the praenomen and cognomen combination. They are few in NR. However, most Nova Romans aren't aware of the significance of the various combinations of names when addressing each other. But now since you asked, you know these things and I hope you will pomote the correct usage of Roman names.

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M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum, Quiritibus et omnibus
salutem plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:

Today is the birthday of Tribunus Plebis Titus Flavius Aquila.
Felices natalis! Di tibi dent quaecumque optes


As the leaves of the forest have turned and the air begins to cool,
with ten days before the Hallows it is time to bring out the Ghost
Stories. Here is one to enjoy from Pliny the Younger.

Athenodorus and the Haunted House

"In Athens there was a large and roomy house, but it had a bad
reputation and an unhealthy air. Through the silence of the night you
could hear the sound of metal clashing and, if you listened more
closely, you could make out the clanking of chains, first from far
off, then from close by. Soon there appeared a phantom, an old man,
emaciated and filthy, with a long beard and unkempt hair. He wore
shackles on his legs and chains on his wrists, shaking them as he
walked. And so the inhabitants of this house spent many dreadful
nights lying awake in fear. Illness and eventually death overtook
them through lack of sleep and their increasing dread. For even when
the ghost was absent, the memory of that horrible apparition preyed
on their minds, and their fear itself lasted longer than the initial
cause of that fear. And so eventually the house was deserted and
condemned to solitude, left entirely to the ghost. But the house was
advertised, in case someone unaware of the evil should wish to buy or
rent it.

"There came to Athens the philosopher Athenodorus. He read the
advertisement, and when he heard the low price, he was suspicious and
made some inquiries. He soon learned the whole story and, far from
being deterred, was that much more interested in renting the place.
When evening began to fall, he requested a bed for himself to be set
up in the front of the house, and he asked for some small writing
tablets, a stylus, and a lamp. He sent all his servants to the back
of the house, and concentrated his mind, eyes, and hand on his
writing, lest an unoccupied mind produce foolish fears and cause him
to imagine he saw the ghost he had already heard so much about.

"At first, as usual, there was only the night silence. Then came the
sound of iron clashing, of chains clanking; yet Athenodorus did not
raise his eyes or put down his stylus. Instead he concentrated his
attention on his work. Then the din grew even louder: and now it was
heard at the threshold—now it was inside the room with him!
Athenodorus turned, saw, and recognized the ghost. It was standing
there, beckoning to him with its finger as if calling to him. Rather
than answering the summons, he motioned with his hand that the ghost
should wait a while, and he turned back to his writing. The ghost
continued rattling its chains right over the philosopher's head.
Athenodorus looked around again: sure enough, the ghost was still
there, beckoning as before. With no further delay, the philosopher
picked up his lamp and followed the phantom. The specter walked very
slowly, as if weighed down by the chains. Then it walked to the
courtyard of the house and suddenly vanished, abandoning its comrade.
Athenodorus, now alone, plucked some grass and leaves to mark the
spot where the ghost had disappeared. In the morning he went to the
local magistrates and advised that they order the spot to be
excavated, which they did. Bones were found, entwined with chains—
bones that the body, rotted by time and earth, had left bare and
corroded by the chains. These bones were gathered and given a public
burial. After these rites had been performed the house was no longer
troubled by spirits." ~ C. Plinius Caecilius, Epistle 7


AUC 377 / 376 BCE: Struggle to adopt the Leges Sextia-Licinia

"A favorable opportunity for making innovations presented itself in
the terrible pressure of debt, a burden from which the plebs did not
hope for any alleviation until they had raised men of their own order
to the highest authority in the State. This, they thought, was the
aim which they must devote their utmost efforts to reach, and they
believed that they had already, by dint of effort, secured a foothold
from which, if they pushed forward, they could secure the highest
positions, and so become the equals of the patricians in dignity as
they now were in courage. For the time being, C. Licinius and L.
Sextius decided to become tribunes of the plebs; once in this office
they could clear for themselves the way to all the other
distinctions. All the measures which they brought forward after they
were elected were directed against the power and influence of the
patricians and calculated to promote the interests of the plebs. One
dealt with the debts, and provided that the amount paid in interest
should be deducted from the principal and the balance repaid in three
equal yearly installments. The second restricted the occupation of
land and prohibited any one from holding more than five hundred
jugera. The third provided that there should be no more consular
tribunes elected, and that one consul should be elected from each
order. They were all questions of immense importance, which could not
be settled without a tremendous struggle. The prospect of a fight
over those things that excite the keenest desires of men-land, money,
honors - produced consternation among the patricians. After excited
discussions in the senate and in private houses, they found no better
remedy than the one they had adopted in previous contests, namely,
the tribunitian veto. So they won over some of the tribunes to
interpose their veto against these proposals. When they saw the
tribes summoned by Licinius and Sextius to give their votes, these
men, surrounded by a bodyguard of patricians, refused to allow either
the reading of the bills or any other procedure which the plebs
usually adopted when they came to vote. For many weeks the Assembly
was regularly summoned without any business being done, and the bills
were looked upon as dead. 'Very good,' said Sextius, 'since it is
your pleasure that the veto shall possess so much power, we will use
this same weapon for the protection of the plebs. Come then,
patricians, give notice of an Assembly for the election of consular
tribunes, I will take care that the word which our colleagues are now
uttering in concert to your great delight, the word 'I FORBID,' shall
not give you much pleasure.' These were not idle threats. No
elections were held beyond those of the tribunes and aediles of the
plebs. Licinius and Sextius, when re-elected, would not allow any
curule magistrates to be appointed, and as the plebs constantly re-
elected them, and as they constantly stopped the election of consular
tribunes, this dearth of magistrates lasted in the City for five
years." ~ Livy 6.35


Our thought for today comes from De Consolatione ad Polybium 1.1 by
Lucius Annaeus Seneca:

"Cities and monuments made of stone, if you compare them with our
life, are enduring; if you submit them to the standard of Nature's
law they are perishable, since Nature brings all things to
destruction and recalls them to the state from which they sprang. For
what that mortal hands have made is ever immortal? The seven wonders
of the world and all the works, far more wonderful than these, that
the ambition of later years has reared, will some day be seen leveled
to the ground. So it is - nothing is everlasting, few things are even
long-lasting; one thing perishes in one way, another in another,
though the manner of their passing varies, yet whatever has beginning
has also an end. Some there are who threaten even the world with
destruction, and (if you think that piety admits the belief) this
universe, which contains all the works of gods and men, will one day
be scattered and plunged into the ancient chaos and darkness."

C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo et Lyn s.p.d.,

>> I think you should have to join Nova Roma: your place is here

among us. Religion doesn't count at all as for citizenship: I tell
you this a pontifex and sacerdos whose main point here is the
religion.<<

To Lentulus:
I agree this position.

We do remind that the "paganism" is not the precise world of the
ancient Roman religion. It is a christian world to humiliate or to
give a "rustic" side to the no christians, because, of course, the
christian worshippers were so urban, so cleaver... The true christian
religion was for the men of the towns and the false religion was for
the idiots in their fields, the pagans, the rustic men.

But, indeed, never the Romans called themselves pagans. They made the
difference between the "supestitio" and the "religio", and for them
the "religio" was the "cultus deorum". The worshipp toward the gods.

So the religio Romana, the cultus deorum, is cultual things, not
dogmatic ways to divide men between worshippers and infidels,
heretics or apostates against saints and blessed, and do one. These
divisions are the fact of sectarian spirits.

When the christian sect (or superstitio as wrote Tacitus) became, by
the wishes of the emperor Theodosius the unic religio Romana, he
decided to abolish the ancient cultus deorum, the ancient religio
Romana.

But, in my opinion, this authoritarian decision, maybe in the curse
of the history, in which the no-christians were not yet the ancient
cultores deorum but, most of them, Mithraists or worshippers of Sol
Invictus, in which deity all the ancient deities were imbedded and
insconced, see Macrobius' Saturnalia books,(The emperor Julianus
tried to adapted the ancient religio to the christian church.)this
authoritarian decision, I said, is more a proof of the sectarism of
Theodosius than a thing that we have to follow.

It is absolutely opposite to the cultores deorum mind to purchase
someone about its own beliefs. We are not pagans against christians.

The wars of religions are more the facts of the sectarian religions
than of the cultus deorum way. Among the gods we can put Yahwe or
Allah in, without no problem. Jesus a god son of a god and a virgin?
Is not a problem to the Romans, Romulus and Remus had the same sort,
and Romulus also became a god, the god Quirinus; Moses saved from the
water? no problem! Romulus and Remus also. And so one.

But, actually, these problems of conscience about the gods would not
be ours. We must accept all the beliefs in Nova Roma, but of course,
it is obvious that only the cultores deorum can apply to our genuine
priesthoods. Anyway, a christian, a muslim or a jew would be
terrified to worship our gods and goddesses. This problem of
conscience is their's.

> You would be most welcome here and I personally think it would be a

mistake if you did not join.

Yes, Lyn, for citizenship!

Lyn wrote :

>> The vizsla's name is Gaius.
> When he came into the house, my brother said, "Hi, guy!" and it
> stuck. Besides, the dog is wonderful, and on the night he arrived,

I was involved

> in a fine conversation with the deeply respected Gaius Petronius

Dexter. I took

> it as an omen. <<<

Thanks, to give your wonderful dog my praenomen as nomen. It is a
good nomen and, I hope, a happy omen. :o)

But, please, have a Roman name, because Lyn is not easy to put into a
Latin declension. ;o)

Salvete.

C. Petronius Dexter

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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1735 - Release Date: 10/20/2008 2:52 PM

SALVE PETRONIVS

I agree with you, word by word!
It is not a problem of the politheysts to accept and respect the monotheist's gods. The problem is ONLY theirs to accept and respect our or other religion's gods. If and when(1000 Years??) they wil do that, there will be no more conflict or war based on religion.

VALETE OPTIME
LVCIVS Q. VESTA


Anyway, a christian, a muslim or a jew would be
terrified to worship our gods and goddesses. This problem of
conscience is their's.


--- Mar 21/10/08, Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:

Da: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder discovered, maybe
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 21 ottobre 2008, 14:31






C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo et Lyn s.p.d.,

>> I think you should have to join Nova Roma: your place is here

among us. Religion doesn't count at all as for citizenship: I tell
you this a pontifex and sacerdos whose main point here is the
religion.<<

To Lentulus:
I agree this position.

We do remind that the "paganism" is not the precise world of the
ancient Roman religion. It is a christian world to humiliate or to
give a "rustic" side to the no christians, because, of course, the
christian worshippers were so urban, so cleaver... The true christian
religion was for the men of the towns and the false religion was for
the idiots in their fields, the pagans, the rustic men.

But, indeed, never the Romans called themselves pagans. They made the
difference between the "supestitio" and the "religio", and for them
the "religio" was the "cultus deorum". The worshipp toward the gods.

So the religio Romana, the cultus deorum, is cultual things, not
dogmatic ways to divide men between worshippers and infidels,
heretics or apostates against saints and blessed, and do one. These
divisions are the fact of sectarian spirits.

When the christian sect (or superstitio as wrote Tacitus) became, by
the wishes of the emperor Theodosius the unic religio Romana, he
decided to abolish the ancient cultus deorum, the ancient religio
Romana.

But, in my opinion, this authoritarian decision, maybe in the curse
of the history, in which the no-christians were not yet the ancient
cultores deorum but, most of them, Mithraists or worshippers of Sol
Invictus, in which deity all the ancient deities were imbedded and
insconced, see Macrobius' Saturnalia books,(The emperor Julianus
tried to adapted the ancient religio to the christian church.)this
authoritarian decision, I said, is more a proof of the sectarism of
Theodosius than a thing that we have to follow.

It is absolutely opposite to the cultores deorum mind to purchase
someone about its own beliefs. We are not pagans against christians.

The wars of religions are more the facts of the sectarian religions
than of the cultus deorum way. Among the gods we can put Yahwe or
Allah in, without no problem. Jesus a god son of a god and a virgin?
Is not a problem to the Romans, Romulus and Remus had the same sort,
and Romulus also became a god, the god Quirinus; Moses saved from the
water? no problem! Romulus and Remus also. And so one.

But, actually, these problems of conscience about the gods would not
be ours. We must accept all the beliefs in Nova Roma, but of course,
it is obvious that only the cultores deorum can apply to our genuine
priesthoods. Anyway, a christian, a muslim or a jew would be
terrified to worship our gods and goddesses. This problem of
conscience is their's.

> You would be most welcome here and I personally think it would be a

mistake if you did not join.

Yes, Lyn, for citizenship!

Lyn wrote :

>> The vizsla's name is Gaius.
> When he came into the house, my brother said, "Hi, guy!" and it
> stuck. Besides, the dog is wonderful, and on the night he arrived,

I was involved

> in a fine conversation with the deeply respected Gaius Petronius

Dexter. I took

> it as an omen. <<<

Thanks, to give your wonderful dog my praenomen as nomen. It is a
good nomen and, I hope, a happy omen. :o)

But, please, have a Roman name, because Lyn is not easy to put into a
Latin declension. ;o)

Salvete.

C. Petronius Dexter




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Salve Lucia Aemilia,

Lyn Dowling <ldowling@...> writes:

> I have applied for citizenship with the name Lucia Aemilia (because of
> admiration for Numa Pompilius and his descendents, the Aemilii Paulli),
> cognominated "Scriptrix," if approved by the censores.

Welcome to Nova Roma.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve ,
I, Lucius Curtius Paullus Stand before you declaring my Candidacy for
the position of QUAESTORES.

I can not state any great works for Nova Roma. Or talk at lenghs about
what I have done for Nova Roma as a whole. I can only state, I stand
forth because in My own view I have done nothing for the greater good.
As I wish to serve.
Vale,
Lucius Curtius Paullus

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus sal.

I see you prescribe to the Rise & Fall Theory of Rome.  As a Pontiff & Flamen, I believe that diversity is a key element of a healthy organization and after nearly 25 years as a practicing pagan, I can tell you that we can learn a lot from the monotheists just as they have learned a lot from us Old Religionists.  If the only reason that you are not more active & able to advance the cause of NR is the presence of Christians, Jews, and Moslems in Nova Roma, then you might want to reconsider your association because no one in the Sacred Colleges is going to support the goal of NR for cultores deorum only.

Vale. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Quirinus <ostiaaterni@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:13 am
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] romana or "pagana"?INTRINSIC CONTRADDICTION!

Castra Romana VII
Roman Army Festival
November 15, 2008
Givhans Ferry State Park


Salvete,

The Living Historians of the Sixth Imperial Legion of Rome, the Ludus
Meridianus Gladiatores, and the Imperial Southern Provisional army,
are proud to invite you to the Seventh annual Roman encampment and
marketplace in South Carolina. Castra Romana serves the educational
and public interests by accurately presenting the life and times of
the legionary soldiers and civilians of Imperial Rome in a credible,
authentic atmosphere.

Castra Romana will be held November 15th at Givhans Ferry State Park,
746 Givhans Ferry Road, Ridgeville, South Carolina. Times are 10 am
to 4 pm. Admission to the state park is $2 per person. There is no
cost for the event itself, but a $5 donation for each family is
recommended and used to offset the expense of the event.

The exhibits will include an authentic Roman Army camp, army drill
demonstrations by authentically equipped Roman Legionaries and
Centurions, legionary training exhibits, equipment and armor
displays, gladius and pila demonstrations, soldiers life exhibits and
descriptions, gladiatorial games in the "arena", Roman era pottery
and civilian demonstrations, papyrus writing examples, Biblical
museum displays, Military games and competitions including mock
combat, army pay and ration issues, guard mount, and much, much more.
Young children will be able to enlist in the "Kids Cohort" and train
with a Roman shield and (plastic) sword and participate in the Kids
cohort Pay ceremony.

Those wishing a more in depth experience can actually join the Roman
Army for a weekend by contacting the legion in advance. They will
have the opportunity to wear the armor, learn the drills, and
participate as a Roman Legionary. Slots are limited, so call early.
www.LEGVI.com

Join us for an excellent opportunity for all to sample the history of
the Roman World, which is in fact the beginning of our own history.
Come out and see a modest re-creation of the army and empire that
conquered the world. Striving to create a learning experience that
involves all the senses, the Living Archeologists of Castra Romana
would like to extend an open invitation to schools, homeschool
students, Latin clubs, history clubs, Scouting/adventure clubs, and
educational institutions to attend Castra Romana. The Roman Army
Festival will give the opportunity to see, smell, taste, and feel the
history of an Empire that formed the bedrock of western society.

For more information on attending contact Rusty Myers of Legio VI
FFC, 104 Hunters Wood Drive, Summerville, SC (843) 437-5587, or email
JustusLonginus@.... Please visit the websites: www.LegVI.com and
www.CastraRomana.com and the associated yahoo group for updates.

The Best time for the public to attend is Saturday, 15 November from
10 am to 4 pm.


Rusty Myers
Legio VI FFC

Aurelianus Petronio sal.

The Sybilline Books were originally written, reportedly, by the Sybil of Cumae and sold to Tarquinius Rex but only after she had burned a number of the originals when the king would not meet her high price.  Only five were supposedly finally obtained.  The Books were later destroyed when the temple where they were housed was burned.  Caesar Octavianus Princeps later had a new set of the Books created using many books of prophecy but he then burned over 2,000 of these to prevent anyone questioning the new set.  However, the Sybilline Books still represented a system of sortilege much like is still being used in the Sortes Homericum and the Sortes Vergilianae.  It seems infinitely preferable that if Nova Roma is going to reinstitute a state-supported sortilege and a college to interpret them, we should work with the Vergilianae rather than attempting to recreate the work of the Sybil of Cumae.  However, I would support your suggestion if we could find a reputable Sibyl still practicing her Arts as inspired by Apollo.

Vale.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 1:15 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Candidaturae

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Q. Valerio Poplicola sal.

It is difficult for any in NR to understand Modiano's reaction unless one understands that he has been the whipping boy in Nova Roma for may years.  He is a traditionalist in many ways but also understands that for Nova Roma to work, we must all make efforts to adapt, improvise, and overcome the many obstacles that our organization has encountered.  He was considered Public Enemy No. 1 by most of the Boni for several years during which the Sacred Colleges came to a virtual standstill because of their opposition to certain reforms.  He was also set upon by the Moderatii because of their perception that he was still a member of the Boni and wanted to freeze out change in NR.  In his efforts to break up the inertia in the Sacred Colleges, he was accused of many acts that were felt to be motivated by personal vengence rather than any sense of law or justice.  I have not always agreed with him and we have sparred in the public forum but NR would be poorer without his work

Under normal circumstances, Modianus is quite an accomplished person and has managed to assist in many of the remarkable changes that have occurred in Nova Rova in the last several years.  He has done this along with keeping up a successful marriage and maintaining an arduous course of education.  He continues to offer his services and knowledge for the restoration of the Sacra et Religio as well as supporting the Salus of our Res Publica.  However, he can sometimes be a bit quick tempered when he feels that some of our younger citizens are speaking without a complete knowledge of the circumstances.

I support the one year break between holding public offices but this was a custom of Roma Antiqua and has never been an official policy in Nova Roma.  If a citizen feels that they must respect this tradition, then it is their personal choice.  Last year, I made the mistake of accepting the office of plebeian aedile on a write-in vote.  After consulting the auspices, I determined that this was not a good action and resigned my office.  It was later made clear to me that I had another office that I was meant to hold during that year and work that was required of me for the good of the Res Publica & to contribute to the Pax Deorum.  I also learned that it is necessary for me to make the decision to run for a public office only after following the traditional break and with the clear answer of favorable auspices; not merely neutral ones.

As a long time citizen, I encourage you and other younger citizens to ask questions by private correspondence and to be clear in what questions you have for another citizen.  For those more experienced citizens like Modianus, I suggest that you allow a bit a leeway to our younger citizens and try to admonish them with kindness and patience.  I have been guilty of not doing so and have had my errors pointed out with the good will of others.

Vale. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Q. Valerius Poplicola <catullus.poeta@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 12:04 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De Candidaturae

C. Terentius Varro Omnibus sal.   Well said, Traiano.   Optime valete! --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Marcus Valerius Traianus <marcusvaleriustraianus@...> wrote: From: Marcus Valerius Traianus <marcusvaleriustraianus@...> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] romana or "pagana"?INTRINSIC CONTRADDICTION! To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 11:56 AM Salvete!   It was written - "I believe that diversity is a key element of a healthy organization and after nearly 25 years as a practicing pagan, I can tell you that we can learn a lot from the monotheists just as they have learned a lot from us Old Religionists"   As a pagan/wiccan for about 20 years, I could not agree more with the above statement.  The other paths just need to be open to the experience, and there are many members of the "monotheistic" paths that are open to the understanding.  I have many friends that have celebrated the ancient Gods with me, and some that have found the common ground between us.   That should be our way.  Finding common ground and building on the strength of our diversity.  I personally do not believe that this takes away from the State or the State Religion.  I do not believe the Immortals would be offended by people believing in other paths, as long as they respect Their place in the State, and the hearts of those who follow Them.    Now that is just my 2 cents.   ------------ --------- ------- Marcus Valerius Traianus Candidate for Diribitor & Proud Citizen of Nova Roma

Salve Varro !

You have put forward an interesting idea.

In fact, in order to feed up your reflection, here is, imho, the
main "problem" why we have all together, sometimes, difficulties to
understand each other, or to get out of our misunderstandings.

It is because this Main List is a kind of "Janus face list" ;-) : it
is on one hand the list that NR, as an association (non profit making
corporation) manages to allow every one interested in romanity to
discuss about Rome, and on the other hand the list where meet NR
members, specially citizens, concerned with the other face of NR: the
republic, and its State.

In the first frame, the fact that one may have one belief or religion
is totally indifferent, for (s-)he is to find here a place for
debating and exchanging knowledges. A fortiori, we could even say
that such contradictory debates and exchanges are to be encouraged,
to increase NR fame as a forum on romanity.

In the second frame, things change, for in the frame of the republic,
we are citizens of a State which exists through the Religio romana,
and reciprocally, and that religious debates are, by definition, more
limited.

So, our difficulty is that we sometimes forget who is discussing with
who, and in which frame. We cannot ask someone who comes in this Main
List just to discuss, get infos, etc. to react as a NR citizen.

The fact that you propose a sodalitas to discuss on the RR is thus,
in my view, characteristic of our ML double face, of its wealth, but
also of its ambiguity.


Vale Varro !


P. Memmius Albucius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "philippe cardon"
<philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:

>
> salvete omnes
>
> i'm thinking about many emails i read on this list since some days

bout the relio and the pagan spirit of our community

> And I must ay i'm a little surpised with some reactions
> I'm 100% agree with those who said" the problem come from the

christais who CAN'taccept pagan Gods as true one" and accept that
others worship such "false" Gods

> i'm ready to open my Bible with whom wants to do that to show to

all that this attitude is the only christain one, those who sy they
arre christais and believe otherwise are not what they call
themselves to be!

>
> but it is not he problem here!
> why not create a new sodalitas within NR, the sodlitas of the

worshippers of the Gods (f Roma),

> I know it exists a sodalitas whose goal is to build a templefor

the Gods, and i belong to, but I propose something different, that
all the members of the religio join oneanother and make a lobby
inside NR

>
> Varro
>

Salve Consul Piscinus,

I feel honoured and grateful for the kind words concerning my
birthday, thank you very much. Yes , 50, wow I can´t believe it yet,
time flies.


Optime Vale
Titus Flavius Aquila



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...>
wrote:

>
> M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum, Quiritibus et omnibus
> salutem plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis
>
> Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Novembris; haec dies comitialis

est:

>
> Today is the birthday of Tribunus Plebis Titus Flavius Aquila.
> Felices natalis! Di tibi dent quaecumque optes
>
>
> As the leaves of the forest have turned and the air begins to

cool,

> with ten days before the Hallows it is time to bring out the Ghost
> Stories. Here is one to enjoy from Pliny the Younger.
>
> Athenodorus and the Haunted House
>
> "In Athens there was a large and roomy house, but it had a bad
> reputation and an unhealthy air. Through the silence of the night

you

> could hear the sound of metal clashing and, if you listened more
> closely, you could make out the clanking of chains, first from far
> off, then from close by. Soon there appeared a phantom, an old

man,

> emaciated and filthy, with a long beard and unkempt hair. He wore
> shackles on his legs and chains on his wrists, shaking them as he
> walked. And so the inhabitants of this house spent many dreadful
> nights lying awake in fear. Illness and eventually death overtook
> them through lack of sleep and their increasing dread. For even

when

> the ghost was absent, the memory of that horrible apparition

preyed

> on their minds, and their fear itself lasted longer than the

initial

> cause of that fear. And so eventually the house was deserted and
> condemned to solitude, left entirely to the ghost. But the house

was

> advertised, in case someone unaware of the evil should wish to buy

or

> rent it.
>
> "There came to Athens the philosopher Athenodorus. He read the
> advertisement, and when he heard the low price, he was suspicious

and

> made some inquiries. He soon learned the whole story and, far from
> being deterred, was that much more interested in renting the

place.

> When evening began to fall, he requested a bed for himself to be

set

> up in the front of the house, and he asked for some small writing
> tablets, a stylus, and a lamp. He sent all his servants to the

back

> of the house, and concentrated his mind, eyes, and hand on his
> writing, lest an unoccupied mind produce foolish fears and cause

him

> to imagine he saw the ghost he had already heard so much about.
>
> "At first, as usual, there was only the night silence. Then came

the

> sound of iron clashing, of chains clanking; yet Athenodorus did

not

> raise his eyes or put down his stylus. Instead he concentrated his
> attention on his work. Then the din grew even louder: and now it

was

> heard at the threshold—now it was inside the room with him!
> Athenodorus turned, saw, and recognized the ghost. It was standing
> there, beckoning to him with its finger as if calling to him.

Rather

> than answering the summons, he motioned with his hand that the

ghost

> should wait a while, and he turned back to his writing. The ghost
> continued rattling its chains right over the philosopher's head.
> Athenodorus looked around again: sure enough, the ghost was still
> there, beckoning as before. With no further delay, the philosopher
> picked up his lamp and followed the phantom. The specter walked

very

> slowly, as if weighed down by the chains. Then it walked to the
> courtyard of the house and suddenly vanished, abandoning its

comrade.

> Athenodorus, now alone, plucked some grass and leaves to mark the
> spot where the ghost had disappeared. In the morning he went to

the

> local magistrates and advised that they order the spot to be
> excavated, which they did. Bones were found, entwined with chains—
> bones that the body, rotted by time and earth, had left bare and
> corroded by the chains. These bones were gathered and given a

public

> burial. After these rites had been performed the house was no

longer

> troubled by spirits." ~ C. Plinius Caecilius, Epistle 7
>
>
> AUC 377 / 376 BCE: Struggle to adopt the Leges Sextia-Licinia
>
> "A favorable opportunity for making innovations presented itself

in

> the terrible pressure of debt, a burden from which the plebs did

not

> hope for any alleviation until they had raised men of their own

order

> to the highest authority in the State. This, they thought, was the
> aim which they must devote their utmost efforts to reach, and they
> believed that they had already, by dint of effort, secured a

foothold

> from which, if they pushed forward, they could secure the highest
> positions, and so become the equals of the patricians in dignity

as

> they now were in courage. For the time being, C. Licinius and L.
> Sextius decided to become tribunes of the plebs; once in this

office

> they could clear for themselves the way to all the other
> distinctions. All the measures which they brought forward after

they

> were elected were directed against the power and influence of the
> patricians and calculated to promote the interests of the plebs.

One

> dealt with the debts, and provided that the amount paid in

interest

> should be deducted from the principal and the balance repaid in

three

> equal yearly installments. The second restricted the occupation of
> land and prohibited any one from holding more than five hundred
> jugera. The third provided that there should be no more consular
> tribunes elected, and that one consul should be elected from each
> order. They were all questions of immense importance, which could

not

> be settled without a tremendous struggle. The prospect of a fight
> over those things that excite the keenest desires of men-land,

money,

> honors - produced consternation among the patricians. After

excited

> discussions in the senate and in private houses, they found no

better

> remedy than the one they had adopted in previous contests, namely,
> the tribunitian veto. So they won over some of the tribunes to
> interpose their veto against these proposals. When they saw the
> tribes summoned by Licinius and Sextius to give their votes, these
> men, surrounded by a bodyguard of patricians, refused to allow

either

> the reading of the bills or any other procedure which the plebs
> usually adopted when they came to vote. For many weeks the

Assembly

> was regularly summoned without any business being done, and the

bills

> were looked upon as dead. 'Very good,' said Sextius, 'since it is
> your pleasure that the veto shall possess so much power, we will

use

> this same weapon for the protection of the plebs. Come then,
> patricians, give notice of an Assembly for the election of

consular

> tribunes, I will take care that the word which our colleagues are

now

> uttering in concert to your great delight, the word 'I FORBID,'

shall

> not give you much pleasure.' These were not idle threats. No
> elections were held beyond those of the tribunes and aediles of

the

> plebs. Licinius and Sextius, when re-elected, would not allow any
> curule magistrates to be appointed, and as the plebs constantly re-
> elected them, and as they constantly stopped the election of

consular

> tribunes, this dearth of magistrates lasted in the City for five
> years." ~ Livy 6.35
>
>
> Our thought for today comes from De Consolatione ad Polybium 1.1

by

> Lucius Annaeus Seneca:
>
> "Cities and monuments made of stone, if you compare them with our
> life, are enduring; if you submit them to the standard of Nature's
> law they are perishable, since Nature brings all things to
> destruction and recalls them to the state from which they sprang.

For

> what that mortal hands have made is ever immortal? The seven

wonders

> of the world and all the works, far more wonderful than these,

that

> the ambition of later years has reared, will some day be seen

leveled

> to the ground. So it is - nothing is everlasting, few things are

even

> long-lasting; one thing perishes in one way, another in another,
> though the manner of their passing varies, yet whatever has

beginning

> has also an end. Some there are who threaten even the world with
> destruction, and (if you think that piety admits the belief) this
> universe, which contains all the works of gods and men, will one

day

> be scattered and plunged into the ancient chaos and darkness."
>

Sale Varro,

Count me in,you have my support.

Vale,
Ap. Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Wed, 10/22/08, philippe cardon <philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:

> From: philippe cardon <philippe.cardon01@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] NEW SODALITAS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 3:49 PM
> salvete omnes
>
> i'm thinking about many emails i read on this list
> since some days bout the relio and the pagan spirit of our
> community
> And I must ay i'm a little surpised with some
> reactions
> I'm 100% agree with those who said" the problem
> come from the christais who CAN'taccept pagan Gods as
> true one" and accept that others worship such
> "false" Gods
> i'm ready to open my Bible with whom wants to do that
> to show to all that this attitude is the only christain one,
> those who sy they arre christais and believe otherwise are
> not what they call themselves to be!
>
> but it is not he problem here!
> why not create a new sodalitas within NR, the sodlitas of
> the worshippers of the Gods (f Roma),
> I know it exists a sodalitas whose goal is to build a
> templefor the Gods, and i belong to, but I propose something
> different, that all the members of the religio join
> oneanother and make a lobby inside NR
>
> Varro

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		Main Page - Current Events
Date:		Wednesday October 22, 2008
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Is there an event coming that should be listed on our Main Page in the Current Events block? Post a message on NRWiki or contact the webmasters well in advance.
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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@...> wrote:

>

>
> Now, if only I could settle on a name!
>
> Vale,
>
> ld
>

Salve!

We have few Lucretii, which is too bad since the clan has such a
distinguished history. http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lucretius

Optime vale in cura deorum!

M. Lucretius Agricola

----- Original Message -----

From: Lyn Dowling

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:16 AM

Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder discovered, maybe

Salve, Julia,

I shall apply for citizenship the moment I can decide on a name. Naming the dog was easy. Naming myself takes far more thought, though I do hope to come up with something from the early to middle Republic.

It never fails to amaze and inspire that every day comes correspondence from Julii, Fabii, Horatii, Cornelii, Petronii, Caelii, Livii and all the others: people who know and respect these gentes so much as to adopt their nomini, or whose parents love them well enough to have bestowed them upon their children.

I am replying to a post from a Julia and am about to do so again with a Cornelius Lentulus!

vale,

ld

---

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of L Julia Aquila
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:54 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder discovered, maybe

Salve Lyn,

You so are deserving of respect and it would be an honor to have you
join as a citizen, I do hope you reconsider. You are a person of
strength, fortitude and talent and we need citizens like you.
I am delighted and honored that you continue to share such news with
us! I look forward to more!

Cura ut valeas

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@.. .> wrote:
>
> Salve, Julia, et gratias tibi ago.
>
>
>
> I am deeply honored by your comments. I scour the Net daily for
such news
> and am delighted to share it.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> ld
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com]
On Behalf
> Of L Julia Aquila
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:28 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Gaius' turn: Site of Caligula's murder
discovered,
> maybe
>
>
>
> Salve Lyn,
>
> This is a very good and informative post! I just wanted to say I
have
> enjoyed the information you post and have learned a few details I
may
> have missed. And yes I do double check as part of my eternally
> continuing education and I always try to give credit for
> disagreements between credible scholars.
> Thank you.
>
> Optime vale,
>
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
ps.com, "Lyn
> Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote:
> >
> > From the Times:
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard Owen, in Rome
> >
> > Archeologists say that they have found the underground passage in
> which the
> > Emperor Caligula was murdered by his own Praetorian Guard to put
an
> end to
> > his deranged reign of terror.
> >
> > Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (AD12-AD41), known by his
> nickname
> > Caligula (Little Boots), was the third emperor of the Roman
Empire
> after
> > Augustus and Tiberius, and like them a member of the Julio-
Claudian
> dynasty.
> >
> >
> > His assassination was the result of a conspiracy by members of
the
> Senate
> > who hoped to restore the Roman Republic. However the Praetorian
> Guard
> > declared Caligula's uncle Claudius emperor instead, thus
preserving
> the
> > monarchy.
> >
> > Maria Antonietta Tomei, a Rome archeologist, said a cryptoportico
or
> > underground corridor discovered beneath the imperial palaces on
the
> Palatine
> > Hill matched exactly the description given by the Rome historian
> Suetonius,
> > who says that the Emperor was stabbed to death after watching an
> > entertainment. He left via the passageway, where the Praetorian
> Guard led by
> > its commander, Cassius Chaerea, was lying in wait.
> >
> > Professor Tomei said she was "absolutely convinced" that the
> cryptportico
> > was the one in which Caligula met his end. Although it bore
> builders' stamps
> > from the time of Claudius, it already existed at the time of
> Caligula, and
> > had only been restructured by his uncle and successor.
> >
> > "It is clear that it was Claudius and not Nero, as commonly
> thought, who
> > gave shape to the imperial palace complex on the Palatine Hill,"
> she said.
> >
> > According to Suetonius and the Jewish historian Josephus,
Caligula's
> > assassins also stabbed to death his wife, Caesonia, and killed
> their infant
> > daughter, Julia Drusilla, by smashing her head against a wall.
> Caligula's
> > body was burnt and the ashes interred at the Mausoleum of
Augustus,
> which is
> > still standing near the Tiber. Now a ruin, its tombs were
ransacked
> during
> > the Barbarian invasions of the fifth century.
> >
> > Unlike his father Germanicus, a widely admired and upright Roman
> general,
> > Caligula became a byword for cruelty, excess, insanity and sexual
> > perversion. His nickname derived from the fact that as a small
boy
> he
> > dressed up in a miniature uniform while accompanying his father
on
> military
> > campaigns.
> >
> > Some scholars maintain that Caligula murdered Tiberius to ensure
the
> > succession, or at least ordered his murder. On becoming emperor
> Caligula was
> > at first hailed as the son of Germanicus, but his behaviour became
> > increasingly psychopathic after he fell ill in AD37 and nearly
> died. He had
> > all possible opponents, real and imagined - including members of
> his own
> > family - banished or killed, and seized their properties.
> >
> > He also proclaimed himself a living god. According to Suetonius,
> Caligula
> > had incestuous sex with with his sisters Agrippina, Drusilla and
> Julia
> > Livilla. He also supposedly tried to confer the title of consul
on
> his
> > favourite horse, Incitatus, who had a stable of marble and a
collar
> of
> > precious stones, and had flakes of gold mixed into his oats. Some
> historians
> > have suggested, however, that such stories were embellished or
even
> invented
> > by Caligula's many enemies.
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com
> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1728 - Release Date:
10/17/2008
> 8:07 AM
>

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Salve Varro,

I'm not sure exactly why we need an entire Sodalitas dedicated to
the Religio Romana...I thought that was pretty much that the
existence of the Cultus Deorum Romanorum in Nova Roma was for those
who follow the Gods of Roma. Not to mention the Religio Romana
Yahoo! Group list, that is where most discussions concerning the
Gods of Roma are held anyway.

Vale,
Nero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "philippe cardon"
<philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:

>
> salvete omnes
>
> i'm thinking about many emails i read on this list since some days

bout the relio and the pagan spirit of our community

> And I must ay i'm a little surpised with some reactions
> I'm 100% agree with those who said" the problem come from the

christais who CAN'taccept pagan Gods as true one" and accept that
others worship such "false" Gods

> i'm ready to open my Bible with whom wants to do that to show to

all that this attitude is the only christain one, those who sy they
arre christais and believe otherwise are not what they call
themselves to be!

>
> but it is not he problem here!
> why not create a new sodalitas within NR, the sodlitas of the

worshippers of the Gods (f Roma),

> I know it exists a sodalitas whose goal is to build a templefor

the Gods, and i belong to, but I propose something different, that
all the members of the religio join oneanother and make a lobby
inside NR

>
> Varro
>

Salve,
I must fear withdraw. As I feel I do not Qulify as a Candidate.

Vale,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Big Eared Dave" <dave_bustillos@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve ,
> I, Lucius Curtius Paullus Stand before you declaring my Candidacy for
> the position of QUAESTORES.
>
> I can not state any great works for Nova Roma. Or talk at lenghs

about

> what I have done for Nova Roma as a whole. I can only state, I stand
> forth because in My own view I have done nothing for the greater

good.

> As I wish to serve.
> Vale,
> Lucius Curtius Paullus
>

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Salvete;
yes, that is the point. But if Varro wishes, he could start a
sodalitas to honour a particular deity. Sodalities were very popular
in Rome and the provinces. Sodalities usually honoured the deity
with a dinner and regular meetings. There were sodalities devoted to
Bacchus;-), Hercules, very popular, Mercury, Syrian gods, anyone you
want.
optime vale
Maior

>
> I thought that the Religio Romana *IS* the reason for Nova

Roma's existence. Why have a sodalitas if the organization itself
exists for the specific reason itself?

>
> >Not to mention the Religio Romana Yahoo! Group list, that is

where most

> >discussions concerning the Gods of Roma are held anyway.
>
> And it is a very active list. :-)
>
> Optime valete!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
>

Salvete,

>I thought that the Religio Romana *IS* the reason for Nova
> Roma's existence. Why have a sodalitas if the organization itself
> exists for the specific reason itself?

Touche! And very true. :-)

> yes, that is the point. But if Varro wishes, he could start a
> sodalitas to honour a particular deity. Sodalities were very popular
> in Rome and the provinces. Sodalities usually honoured the deity
> with a dinner and regular meetings. There were sodalities devoted to
> Bacchus;-), Hercules, very popular, Mercury, Syrian gods, anyone you

want.

I agree.

Valete,
Nero

C. Petronius Dexter Fl. Aureliano s.p.d.,

A propos the three books remaining, in a best English than mines.

"The appearance of Sibylline oracles in Roman society dates back to
the beginning of Roman history. According to legends, King Tarquinius
Priscus (early sixth century BC) was approached by an old woman who
brought nine scrolls containing the prophecies of the Sibyl, for
which she demanded three hundred gold pieces. Tarquinius, thinking
the woman a fraud and despising this gift of the gods, refused to pay
the outrageous sum. Thereupon the old woman burned three of the
scrolls in the nearby fire, turned again to the king and asked three
hundred gold pieces for the remaining six. Convinced that the old
woman was mad, Tarquinius again refused, upon which the crone burned
three more scrolls, again demanding the same three hundred gold
pieces for the final three. Realizing that the woman was the Sibyl
herself, Tarquinius agreed to pay the sum. The three surviving
scrolls of the Sibyl were thereafter carefully preserved in the
Capitoline temple of Rome as the most sacred books of the Romans.
These oracles were regularly consulted by a body of ten special
priests, seeking for prophetic guidance in major policy decisions.
However, the Romans always recognized that they lacked the original
complete collection of oracles and, consequently, that their
interpretations were fallible."
(The Sibylline Oracles of Ancient Rome
By Daniel C. Peterson and William J. Hamblin)


Cura ut valeas.

C. Petronius Dexter

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sumus.

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:

Plutarch, Roman Questions 92: "Why do they give a chaplet of oak
leaves to the man who has saved the life of a citizen in time of war?

"Is it because it is easy to find an abundance of oak leaves
everywhere on a campaign? Or is it because the chaplet is sacred to
Jupiter and Juno, whom they regard as guardians of the city? Or is
the custom an ancient inheritance from the Arcadians, who have a
certain kinship with the oak? for they are thought to have been the
first men sprung from the earth, even as the oak was the first
plant."


AUC 386 / 367 BCE: Struggle to adopt the Leges Sextia-Licinia
continues into the tenth year

"At home affairs were becoming more critical. Sextius and Licinius,
the original proposers of the laws, who had been re-elected tribunes
of the plebs for the eighth time, were now supported by Fabius
Ambustus, Licinius Stolo's father-in-law. He came forward as the
decided advocate of the measures which he had initiated, and whereas
there had at first been eight members of the college of tribunes who
had vetoed the proposals, there were now only five. These five, as
usually happens with men who desert their party, were embarrassed and
dismayed, and defended their opposition by borrowed arguments
privately suggested to them by the patricians. They urged that as a
large number of plebeians were in the army at Velitrae the Assembly
ought to be adjourned till the return of the soldiers, to allow of
the entire body of the plebs voting on matters affecting their
interests. Sextius and Licinius, experts after so many years'
practice in the art of handling the plebs, in conjunction with some
of their colleagues and the consular tribune, Fabius Ambustus,
brought forward the leaders of the patrician party and worried them
with questions on each of the measures they were referring to the
people. 'Have you,' they asked, 'the audacity to demand that whilst
two jugera are allotted to each plebeian, you yourselves should each
occupy more than five hundred jugera, so that while a single
patrician can occupy the land of nearly three hundred citizens, the
holding of a plebeian is hardly extensive enough for the roof he
needs to shelter him, or the place where he is to be buried? Is it
your pleasure that the plebeians, crushed by debt, should surrender
their persons to fetters and punishments sooner than that they should
discharge their debts by repaying the principal? That they should be
led off in crowds from the Forum as the property of their creditors?
That the houses of the nobility should be filled with prisoners, and
wherever a patrician lives there should be a private dungeon?'

"They were denouncing these indignities in the ears of men,
apprehensive for their own safety, who listened to them with stronger
indignation than the men who were speaking felt. They went on to
assert that after all there would be no limit to the seizure of land
by the patricians or the murder of the plebs by the deadly usury
until the plebs elected one of the consuls from their own ranks as a
guardian of their liberties. The tribunes of the plebs were now
objects of contempt since their power was shattering itself by their
own veto. There could be no fair or just administration as long as
the executive power was in the hands of the other party, while they
had only the right of protesting by their veto; nor would the plebs
ever have an equal share in the government till the executive
authority was thrown open to them; nor would it be enough, as some
people might suppose, to allow plebeians to be voted for at the
election of consuls. Unless it was made obligatory for one consul at
least to be chosen from the plebs, no plebeian would ever become
consul. Had they forgotten that after they had decided that consular
tribunes should be elected in preference to consuls in order that the
highest office might be open to plebeians, not a single plebeian was
elected consular tribune for four-and-forty years? What did they
suppose? Did they imagine that the men who had been accustomed to
fill all the eight places when consular tribunes were elected would
of their own free will consent to share two places with the plebs, or
that they would allow the path to the consulship to be opened when
they had so long blocked the one to the consular tribuneship? The
people would have to secure by law what they could not gain by
favour, and one of the two consulships would have to be placed beyond
dispute as open to the plebs alone, for if it were open to a contest
it would always be the prey of the stronger party. The old, oft-
repeated taunt could no longer be made now that there were no men
amongst the plebs suitable for curule magistracies. Was the
government carried on with less spirit and energy after the
consulship of P. Licinius Calvus, who was the first plebeian to be
elected to that post, than during the years when only patricians held
the office? Nay, on the contrary, there had been some cases of
patricians being impeached after their year of office, but none of
plebeians. The quaestors also, like the consular tribunes, had a few
years previously begun to be elected from the plebs; in no single
instance had the Roman people had any cause to regret those
appointments. The one thing that was left for the plebs to strive for
was the consulship. That was the pillar, the stronghold of their
liberties. If they arrived at that, the Roman people would realize
that monarchy had been completely banished from the City, and that
their freedom was securely established, for in that day everything in
which the patricians were pre-eminent would come to the plebs-power,
dignity, military glory, the stamp of nobility; great things for
themselves to enjoy, but greater still as legacies to their children.
When they saw that speeches of this kind were listened to with
approval, they brought forward a fresh proposal, viz. that instead of
the duumviri (the two keepers of the Sacred Books) a College of Ten
should be formed, half of them plebeians and half patricians. The
meeting of the Assembly, which was to pass these measures, was
adjourned till the return of the army which was besieging Velitrae.

"Sextius and Licinius were re-elected for the tenth time. They
carried a law providing that of the ten keepers of the Sibylline
Books, five should be chosen from the patricians and five from the
plebeians. This was regarded as a further step towards opening the
path to the consulship. The plebs, satisfied with their victory, made
the concession to the patricians that for the present all mention of
consuls should be dropped.

"After tremendous conflicts, the Dictator and the senate were
worsted; consequently the proposals of the tribunes were carried, and
in spite of the opposition of the nobility the elections were held
for consuls. L. Sextius was the first consul to be elected out of the
plebs. Even that was not the end of the conflict. The patricians
refused to confirm the appointment, and matters were approaching a
secession of the plebs and other threatening signs of appalling civic
struggles. The Dictator, however, quieted the disturbances by
arranging a compromise; the nobility made a concession in the matter
of a plebeian consul, the plebs gave way to the nobility on the
appointment of a praetor to administer justice in the City who was to
be a patrician. Thus after their long estrangement the two orders of
the State were at length brought into harmony. The senate decided
that this event deserved to be commemorated-and if ever the immortal
Gods merited men's gratitude, they merited it then-by the celebration
of the Great Games, and a fourth day was added to the three hitherto
devoted to them. The plebeian aediles refused to superintend them,
whereupon the younger patricians were unanimous in declaring that
they would gladly allow themselves to be appointed aediles for the
honour of the immortal Gods. They were universally thanked, and the
senate made a decree that the Dictator should ask the people to elect
two aediles from amongst the patricians, and that the senate should
confirm all the elections of that year." ~Livy 6.36-37; 42


Thought of the day is from Epictetus, Enchiridion 9

"Sickness is an impediment to the body, but not to the will, unless
itself pleases. Lameness is an impediment to the leg, but not to the
will; and say this to yourself with regard to everything that
happens. For you will find it to be an impediment to something
else,but not truly to yourself."

Salvete Nova Romans

Does anybody have a copy of A. Demandt's Der Fall Roms (1984).

If you do can you drop me a private note as I would like to ask you
something about the work.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

C. Terentius Varro S. P. D.

Today I publicly announce my decision to stand for election to the
office of diribitor. Few things are more important in the life of the
Res Publica than the integrity and efficiency of her elections. In my
macronational career I have served as a public official responsible for
the counting and certification of votes, and later in another office
where I was responsible for the oversight and management of entire
elections. I understand the importance of timeliness and accuracy in
the process of vote counting and pledge my best efforts to faithfully
execute all the duties of this office if elected. I ask for your vote.

Any questions may be directed to me at my private e-mail address. I
will answer every one as quickly as possible.

Optime valete.

EDICTVM CENSORIVM DE ADLEGENDIS SENATORIBVS

Ex Officio

Censores Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus salutem
plurimam quiritibus dicunt.

According to Paragraph IV. A. 1. d. of the Constitution of Nova Roma and Lex
Popillia Senatoria, the censores have the powers of maintaining the Album
Senatorium, and

With the decision of Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus to turn down an appointment
to the Senate for the reasons stated, we take this opportunity to sublection
the following citizens to the Senate.

Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus, a citizen of Nova Roma since 2751 (
1998).
He is currently serving as Custos . He has served as Diribitor, Rogator,
three times as Quaestor and as a Lictor since 2752 (1999). He has proven
himself to be a selfless citizen who will take on those jobs others fail to
do. He has maintain a demeanor, courtesy and commitment to Nova Roma that
has won him friends from all political views within Nova Roma. Truth be
told his appointment to the Senate is long over due.

Equestria Iunia Laeca is currently serving as Consular Quaestor and Curator
Aerarii (Chief Financial Officer of Nova Roma, Inc)). She has almost
single-handedly brought the finances of Nova Roma from chaos to
transparency.

---

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censores, Novae Romae

Salve Lynn:
if I remember correctly did you choose Lucia Aemilia? (no cognomen I
think) if so that's fine, as it's on the approved list. And a big
welcome to a new civis. Great article thanks!
optime vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Salvete, omnes!
>
>
>
> Here's an item from Zaman, the Turkish news service.
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
> ld
>
>
>
> PS - I assume that I should continue to use my birth name until I

hear from

> the censores, yes?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dig at Augustus Temple re-examines remnants of Roman triumphs
>
>
>
> The Turkish capital, which has been the cradle of a variety of
> civilizations, is watching as a significant archeological dig

takes place at

> Augustus Temple in the Ulus area.
>
>
>
> The temple stands next to the Hacýbayram Mosque. The dig aims to

clean up

> the areas dug in the temple in the 1930s and bring a wealth of new

history

> to light.
>
> The deputy director of the Anatolian Civilizations Museum, Emel

Yurttagül,

> is leading the dig, with help from experts from Ankara University.

In the

> coming days, a delegation of archeologists from Italy's Trieste

University,

> under the direction of Professor Paula Botteri, is expected to

join in the

> project.
>
> The dig, which began Sept. 15, was sparked by the need for certain

factors

> at the historical site: a new detailed plan of the site,

refurbishment of

> broken or damaged pieces of the building and restoration of the

site. Within

> this framework, the archeological dig at Augustus will allow

experts to

> examine historical evidence that was uncovered almost a century

ago.

>
> "The digs at the Augustus Temple began one month ago, and for as

long as

> weather permits, will continue for another two months or so," said

Orhan

> Düzgün, general director of Cultural Treasures and Museums. "The

Augustus

> Temple was used as a pagan temple and then later as a church.

Later, when

> the Hacýbayram Mosque was built alongside it, this also became

known as the

> area with the Hacýbayram Mosque. So, this really is one of the

areas of our

> country that portrays the high level of tolerance between

religions."

>
> "After Muslims took over this region, the sections of this temple

that were

> used as a pagan temple and later as a church were not touched, and

in fact

> part of the mosque's roof was built over one of the walls of this

site,

> which really showed that religions could coexist in tolerance."
>
> The Augustus Temple was built after Roman Emperor Augustus annexed

the lands

> of Galatians and Ancyra (Ankara) into the Roman Empire in the year

25 B.C.

> The temple, known in Latin as Monumentum Ancyranum, was dedicated

to Rome

> and built in honor of the Emperor Augustus and the city's local

goddess.

>
> During its restoration, an important text -- the spiritual

testament of the

> Emperor Augustus -- was uncovered. This text, written in red, is

called "Res

> Gestae Divi Augusti." Though it wasn't until the archeological

efforts in

> the 1930s that the full extent of the architectural wonders in the

Augustus

> Temple was uncovered, a delegation was sent during the 16th

century from

> Germany to the Ottoman Empire. During the delegation's tour of the

lands, an

> examination of the temple caused the men to later call the site a

palace or

> theater on their return to Europe.
>
> The temple was listed in October 2001 by the World Monuments Watch

as one of

> the top 100 archeological sites that needs to be protected as a

shared piece

> of world history.
>