Maior Albucio Germanico spd;
I agree with both of you! and admire Germanicus' example. When
I joined, in the censores office the motto must have been : anything
goes. What a mess.

I had two nomina and belonged to the entirely unhistorical gens
Fabia Vera. With a knowledgable censorial staff I could have been
guided to aligning my name painlessly to S. Fabia Vera, or S.
Pomponia Vera. Unfortunately the onomastic cohors was in its infancy
with no Latinists and I had something like 5 changes to finally: M.
Hortensia Maior Fabiana (from Fabia Vera).

I think it's splendid that now Nova Roma has Latinists such as
Lentulus and that Germanicus is running for rogator. Our Roman names
speak volumes about us. It doesn't have to be painful anymore as it
was with me, and I encourage older citizens to get the help to
reform their names.
optime valete
M. Hortensia Maior



When I joined Nova> Roma (way back in AUC MMDCCLIII), we
were "creating gentes" - > Cornelius Lentulus argued very eloquently
for a change to a historical

> gentilicium, so I joined the gens Tullia but was able to keep the

rest of my

> former name, thus saving a key component of my identity - not just

an

> affectation to which I had become attached! I was able to satisfy

both my

> desire to bring myself into accord with Nova Roman practice and my

identity

> as Gaius Valerianus Germanicus.
>
> I am running for Rogator this year, in part because I do have the

expertise

> in Latin to bring to the work of helping new citizens with their

names. I

> understand from experience how tightly bound up the name can be

with who we

> are as Nova Romans, and the importance of getting it "right" the

first time

>

Salve Agricola,
thanks for the very interesting link.
I have spent a few half-hours looking at the antikythera mechanism and
its old reconstruction at the Athens archeological museum.
With the new phpotos it's fascinating to be able to see the writing,
which is totally invisible for the naked eye.


Seeing its perfectly worked toothed wheels I couldn't help thinking
that it can't have been an unicum, and technology like that was
probably more widespread than we imagine.

Vale,
Livia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
<marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:

>
> M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.
>
> There is a new About.com article on the Antikythera mechanism
>
>

http://archaeology.about.com/b/2008/10/28/the-antikythera-mechanism-on-tac-and-aboutcom.htm

>
> Do not fail to follow the link to the wonderful 15 minute video.
>
> optime valete in cura deorum
>

Praetori Complutensis s.d.

Thanks for him Praetor ! He can naturally *read* our Forum, and has
sure well noted your wish, though he has accepted this evening to
take profit of this moderation time and have some distance with our
main list.

I think that, in a nundina, Claudius will wish renewing you himself,
directly and privately, with his words, his apologies.


Vale Praetor,


P. Memmius Albucius
leg. pp. Galliae



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Complutensis" <complutensis@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete omnes et salve Albuci
>
>
>
> Well if Varro wish to stay in Nova Roma he is welcome, under

moderation, but

> welcome. Now the same as I received his insults in private mails, I

would

> appreciate his public apology or at leas his private apology.
>
>
>
> M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
> Praetor Novae Romae
>
> Senator
> Praetor Hispaniae
> Scriba Censoris K·F·B·M
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] En

nombre

> de Publius Memmius Albucius
> Enviado el: miércoles, 29 de octubre de 2008 20:41
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Moderation Notice
>
>
>
> Omnibus s.d.
>
> As Ap. Claudius Varro is, logically, under moderation and cannot

thus

> express himself here, I think necessary, as governor provincialis

and

> in agreement with him, to inform any interested cives that Claudius
> has, as other of us did in the past after having, in a first time,
> declared their resignation, finally given up his idea, and thus not
> sent our censors the resignation notification required by our laws.
>
> I think that this courageous humble decision will help him making
> more efforts bettering up his English and studying forward our

common

> laws.
>
> He has asked me to thank Lucia Aemilia for her kind words and also

to

> present hurt civis, and our honorable Praetors first, his apologies
> for his breaches of our edictum de sermone, during a time when he
> lives personal problems.
>
> Valete omnes,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> gov. Galliae
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

ps.com,

> "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Complutensis,
> > after Varro had violated several moderation rules, managing to
> offend
> > just about everybody with his tactless comments about revolutions
> and
> > crucified people, personally I probably wouldn't have chosen the
> > sexual nature of his comment as the main reason to put him in
> moderation.
> >
> > Anyway there can be no doubt that he needed to be put in

moderation.

> >
> > Personally I'm thankful that he decided to leave Nova Roma and I
> think
> > we are better off without him.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > L. Livia Plauta
> >
> > PS: For the people who don't understand French. You are better

off

> not
> > having understood Varro's comments.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

ps.com,

> "M. CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> > <complutensis@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ex officio Praetorium
> > >
> > > Yesterday citizen Appius Claudius Varro posted a message with
> material
> > > of a sexual nature violating de Edictum de Sermone point III

and

> IV.
> > >
> > > After read the message I decided to delete it from the ML and
> send a
> > > message to Appius Claudius Varro informing him that he had
> violate the
> > > rules of ML of Nova Roma and reminding him the rules to be
> followed
> > > when a citizen post a message.
> > >
> > > Instead a silence or a more or less polite reply, I received a
> reply
> > > full of insults toward the citizens of Nova Roma, the Res

Publica

> and
> > > myself.
> > >
> > > This reply allows me to assume that this citizen is not willing

to

> > > follow the rules of the ML, so I decided to put him inmder total
> > > moderation for a minimum term of one month.
> > >
> > > Against this decision he can appeal to the Tribuni Plebis to

whom

> I
> > > sent a copy of the cited messages.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > > M. Curiatius Complutensis
> > > Praetor Novae Romae
> > >
> >
>

Cassiusseverus, we are in agreement. From the first time I saw "I Cladius" on
PBS, I've been a fan. It made me not only want to read more about the
Julio-Claudian line but other books Robert Graves has written.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:50:55 -0000
"q.cassiusseverus" <q.cassiusseverus@...> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I would like to share with anyone who might not be aware , that many
> excellent films about Rome are available on youtube. I have recently
> seen for the first serious time in my life(I was aware of the series
> when I was a teenager back in the seventies but did'nt pay
> attention)"I Claudius". All except the last episode is currently
> available along with many other films about ancient Rome. I believe I
> Claudius to be a timeless classic and encourage anyone who loves Rome
> that hasn't seen it to check it out. I believe the last episode will
> be uploaded soon.
>
> Quintus Cassius Severus
>

BB,
Warrior

C. Petronius Quiritibus s.p.d.,

I think that the emperor Claudius is very important to the Anglo-
saxons because he successfully invaded the Great Britain and here
imported the Roman way of life, he invaded the island not himself,
but in placing his emancipated slave, Narcissus, as leader of the
Roman legions, the 2nd, 9th, 14th and 20th, going into this
invasion.

Claudius himself is said to go into great Britain with reinforcement
to take Colchester the main town of the Trinovantes, in which
resisted Caratacus (Caradoc) the son of the king Cunobelinus
(Cynbellin). However this personal action of Claudius is under
discussion between historians. And, very touching, he named his son
Britannicus.

Claudius is the Anglo-saxons Roman as invader which brought the
civilization, like in France Julius Caesar is our great Roman, the
Gaul's conqueror, even though Claudius himself was born in Gaul, in
Lyon (Lugdunum).

But, if you read Tacitus, Suetonius and Seneca you see in Claudius a
perfect idiot, a foolish and ridiculous emperor. His wife Messalina
publicly deceived him with Silius, and the poet Juvenal was very
acerbic towards her (As I do not want to have the same sort of the
NRCitizen Varro, thence I will not tell the crude words of the
brilliant satirist), he married his niece Agrippina, the sister of
Caligula, and mother of Nero, he was the toy of his emanciped men, he
left his empire to his son in law Nero to the detriment of his own
son Britannicus. A famous Jean Racine's Tragedy. And he finished
poisoned with mushrooms given by his wife and niece Agrippina in
order to keep the power through his young son Nero.

What a pity! It was the worst and the quite weakest emperor of his
dinasty and, at his death, his Apotheosis ( His official coming into
the gods) was judged as a shame so choking that Seneca wrote a
pamphlet intitulated Apocolocyntosis (Coming into the pumpkins)a very
short and acerbic text. This brilliant mockery dealt the apotheosis
itself a severe blow at this point that never the apotheosis will be
like before.

With faith was given the apotheosis to Caesar and to Augustus.
Tiberius refused a such great honour. Gaius Caligula was damned. But
giving apotheosis to Claudius, with his murder Agrippina as
flaminica, was the first disgrace of this institution.

Valete.

C. Petronius Dexter

Salve, Karen! <<< I have read and re-read the guide for choosing a name and frankly I am confused on how to do this.  This is quite important for me so I wish to do this correctly the first time.  I have tried to write to the Censors office as you suggested, however, for some reason the system will not allow it.  I certainly would appreciate any assistance with this. <<<< I am from the team that deals with new members and their name. My job is help to you in choosing your name. Please contact me privately and I will give you my suggestions and I answer your questions. Cura, ut valeas! Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Q U A E S T O R P O N T I F E X SACERDOS CONCORDIAE ------------------------------------------ Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae Interpres Linguae Hungaricae Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae ------------------------------------------- Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis Dominus Factionis Russatae Latinista, Classicus Philologus --- Mer 29/10/08, karen smith 45 <kcsmith45@...> ha scritto: Da: karen smith 45 <kcsmith45@...> Oggetto: RE: [Nova-Roma] I am new A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Mercoledì 29 ottobre 2008, 20:29 Salve,   Â

---

Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!

M. Moravius Piscinus Con. Sr. Quiritibus s. p. d.

Unten aufgeführt, sind die Kandidaten, die mich wegen der Wahl in
der Comitia Centuriata und der Comitia Populi Tributa (nicht
aufgeführt die Kandidaten für die Plebejischen Ämter ) angeschrieben
haben .

Wenn die Kandidaten, ihre Kandidatur , auf den Nova Roma Listen
bekanntgegeben haben, aber mich nicht privat verständigt haben,
unter mhoratius@hotmail. com, dann sind sie nicht NICHT offizielle
Kandidaten und werden deshalb nicht auf dem Wahlschein , der
Wahlliste, erscheinen.

Im Augenblick, fehlt uns noch ein Kandidat für das Amt des Aedelis
Curulis und ein Kandidat für den Diribitor.

Es gibt einen Wettbewerb für die Ämter des Censors und für die zwei
Positionen der Rogatores .

Bürger die sich noch als Kandidaten zur Verfügung stellen wollen, um
für die Ämter der beiden comitia zu kandidieren, haben noch bis
einschließlich 3.November (Mitternacht in Rom, Italien, 18:00 NYC)
um mich über ihre Intentionen zu verständigen.

Nach dem 3.November werde ich die endgültigen Auspizien nehmen.
Die vorläufige Ablaufplan:

contio 9-14 November,
die Centuria Praerogativa beginnt die Wahl in derComitia Centuriata
am 15 November, die ersten Klassen Zenturien fangen mit der Wahl am
17 November an, und dann können alle Zenturien mit ihrer Wahl ab dem
20.November beginnen.
Die Wahl aller Tribus in der Comitia Populi Tributa sollen
gleichzeitig stattfinden .
Die Wahl sollte deshalb am 23.November enden ,und ein Bericht der
Ergebnisse , vor Dezember vorliegen
[Der endgültige Ablaufplan wird später noch bekanntgegeben.]

____________ _

Für Censor (2)

Publius Constantinus Placidus
C. Popillius Laenas
Titus Iulius Sabinus

Für Consul (2)

M. Iulius Severus
Marcus Curiatius Complutensis

Für Praetor (2)

Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
P. Memmius Albucius

Aedilis Curalis (2)

Cn. Iulius Caesar

Für Quaestor (8):

Gaius Arminius Reccanellus
Tiberius Cornelius Scipio
Quintus Valerius Poplicola
T. Flavius Aquila
M. Valerius Potitus
C. Petronius Dexter
Lucia Livia Plauta
Lucius Gratius Nerva

Für Rogator (2)

Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
Aula Tullia Scholastica
Titus Arminius Genialis

Custodes (2)

Lucius Salix Cicero
Marcus Lucretius Agricola

Diribitores (4)

M. Octavius Corvus
Marcus Valerius Traianus
C. Terentius Varro

Wenn Kandidaten ihre Kandidatur angekündigt haben , aber nicht in
der Liste erscheinen, oder aber auf der Liste erscheinen, ihre
Kandidatur aber zurückgezogen haben, dann sollen diese mich
verständigen unter
mhoratius@hotmail. com

Greetings!

I am sorry to say that you were probably a victim of a problem we had
for a few days with our mail system. All should be working again, but
if you try to send a message using one of our forms and it does not
work, please let me know. I'm co-webmaster and I'll try to get any
problems fixed.

Many thanks!

M. Lucretius Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "karen smith 45" <kcsmith45@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
>
>
> I have read and re-read the guide for choosing a name and frankly I am
> confused on how to do this. This is quite important for me so I
wish to do
> this correctly the first time. I have tried to write to the Censors
office
> as you suggested, however, for some reason the system will not allow
it. I
> certainly would appreciate any assistance with this.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
> Of Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] I am new
>
>
>
> Hello Karen,
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma. For guidance on names, you should look at
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
>
> Once you've done that, if you still have questions, the best thing to
> do is to write to the Censors office. You're also welcome to write
> directly to me if you wish.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> Karen <kcsmith45@... <mailto:kcsmith45%40comcast.net> > writes:
>
> > Salve,
> >
> > I am new to this list as well to Nova Roma. I am still learning all
> > the basics of Rome and all things Roman so please bear with me as I
> > will assuredly make mistakes.
> >
> > I wish to join as a citizen of Nova Roma but find that I am not sure
> > how to take on a Roman name for Karen Cyrilla Anne Smith. Although I
> > have taken my husband's surname, my origins are from Spain, a direct
> > descendant from the Maldonado family which were high ranking officers
> > to the Court of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I am not sure how
> > I should proceed. Should I latinize my current name or use my maiden
> > name of Anna Cyrilla Pagán.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date:
10/29/2008
> 7:45 AM
>

 A. Tullia Scholastica Karen quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Salve,

I am new to this list as well to Nova Roma.  I am still learning all
the basics of Rome and all things Roman so please bear with me as I
will assuredly make mistakes.  

    ATS:  Welcome to Nova Roma!  

I wish to join as a citizen of Nova Roma but find that I am not sure
how to take on a Roman name for Karen Cyrilla Anne Smith.  

    ATS:  You may be a bit confused...we do not take names which translate our macronational ones.  We choose a name we like from three approved lists, like a Chinese menu:  one from column A, one from column B, and one from column C.  We do get some latitude on column C, however.  

Although I
have taken my husband's surname, my origins are from Spain, a direct
descendant from the Maldonado family which were high ranking officers
to the Court of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.  I am not sure how
I should proceed.  Should I latinize my current name or use my maiden
name of Anna Cyrilla Pagán.  

    ATS:  You would do neither.  You may use one of these names in Column C, if it can be Latinized, which both Anna and Cyrilla can (more or less), and might take something like Annia/Annaea in Column B.  All of our names must be subject to Latin declension, and as it stands, Pagán cannot be declined, nor can Smith.  Part of your name can be Latinized, as some choose to do, but you must choose an approved praenomen and nomen.  

Any help would be appreciated.

    ATS:  Any of us in the censorial cohors would be happy to help you.  Both Lentulus and I are Latinists in the censorial and rogatorial nomenclature group, and can guide you.  However, like all of us, you must realize that invention is not in the cards; we do not invent Roman names.  Those days are over in Nova Roma.  We use the ones the Romans did in the first two of the three names, and try to approach their usage in the third.  Our Roman names are an important part of our identity as Romans, and as New Romans.  It is important to choose one you like, and one which is accurate, but within the three-month probationary period, you may change it if it does not suit you as well as you thought at first.

    Please feel free to contact Lentulus or me, or both of us, as we have somewhat different perspectives.  We choose names which are correct Latin, which are historically attested during the Roman republic or the early empire, or in the case of Column C, which reflect one’s occupation, etc., even if that did not exist in Roman times. There are new words for such things, and both of us have studied with an expert in this field.  We can help you with this, which to some does seem daunting.  

Vale

 Vale, et valete.
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/58537

---

Agricola Plautae sal.

Indeed, and the video, which I hope you have watched, suggests the
same - that this was not an isolated device, but part of a tradition.
Whether we can make a legitimate connection between Antikythera and
Richard of Wallingford, I am not sure, but we cannot rule it out a
priori.


optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Agricola,
> thanks for the very interesting link.
> I have spent a few half-hours looking at the antikythera mechanism and
> its old reconstruction at the Athens archeological museum.
> With the new phpotos it's fascinating to be able to see the writing,
> which is totally invisible for the naked eye.
>
>
> Seeing its perfectly worked toothed wheels I couldn't help thinking
> that it can't have been an unicum, and technology like that was
> probably more widespread than we imagine.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <marcus.lucretius@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.
> >
> > There is a new About.com article on the Antikythera mechanism
> >
> >
>
http://archaeology.about.com/b/2008/10/28/the-antikythera-mechanism-on-tac-and-aboutcom.htm
> >
> > Do not fail to follow the link to the wonderful 15 minute video.
> >
> > optime valete in cura deorum
> >
>

Does anyone know if any other ancient mechanisms from this peroid
exist or is it the only one known? I only wonder where we'd be today
if these technologies had developed instead of being lost for
millenia.

>
> Salve Agricola,
> thanks for the very interesting link.
> I have spent a few half-hours looking at the antikythera mechanism

and

> its old reconstruction at the Athens archeological museum.
> With the new phpotos it's fascinating to be able to see the

writing,

> which is totally invisible for the naked eye.
>
>
> Seeing its perfectly worked toothed wheels I couldn't help thinking
> that it can't have been an unicum, and technology like that was
> probably more widespread than we imagine.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <marcus.lucretius@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.
> >
> > There is a new About.com article on the Antikythera mechanism
> >
> >
> http://archaeology.about.com/b/2008/10/28/the-antikythera-

mechanism-on-tac-and-aboutcom.htm

> >
> > Do not fail to follow the link to the wonderful 15 minute video.
> >
> > optime valete in cura deorum
> >
>

I applaud your very keen and well written observations of Claudius,
Petronius. Watching the series has inspired me to read the actual
words of the Roman historians and made me excited to be a citizen
probate of Nova Roma.

>
> C. Petronius Quiritibus s.p.d.,
>
> I think that the emperor Claudius is very important to the Anglo-
> saxons because he successfully invaded the Great Britain and here
> imported the Roman way of life, he invaded the island not himself,
> but in placing his emancipated slave, Narcissus, as leader of the
> Roman legions, the 2nd, 9th, 14th and 20th, going into this
> invasion.
>
> Claudius himself is said to go into great Britain with

reinforcement

> to take Colchester the main town of the Trinovantes, in which
> resisted Caratacus (Caradoc) the son of the king Cunobelinus
> (Cynbellin). However this personal action of Claudius is under
> discussion between historians. And, very touching, he named his

son

> Britannicus.
>
> Claudius is the Anglo-saxons Roman as invader which brought the
> civilization, like in France Julius Caesar is our great Roman, the
> Gaul's conqueror, even though Claudius himself was born in Gaul,

in

> Lyon (Lugdunum).
>
> But, if you read Tacitus, Suetonius and Seneca you see in Claudius

a

> perfect idiot, a foolish and ridiculous emperor. His wife

Messalina

> publicly deceived him with Silius, and the poet Juvenal was very
> acerbic towards her (As I do not want to have the same sort of the
> NRCitizen Varro, thence I will not tell the crude words of the
> brilliant satirist), he married his niece Agrippina, the sister of
> Caligula, and mother of Nero, he was the toy of his emanciped men,

he

> left his empire to his son in law Nero to the detriment of his own
> son Britannicus. A famous Jean Racine's Tragedy. And he finished
> poisoned with mushrooms given by his wife and niece Agrippina in
> order to keep the power through his young son Nero.
>
> What a pity! It was the worst and the quite weakest emperor of his
> dinasty and, at his death, his Apotheosis ( His official coming

into

> the gods) was judged as a shame so choking that Seneca wrote a
> pamphlet intitulated Apocolocyntosis (Coming into the pumpkins)a

very

> short and acerbic text. This brilliant mockery dealt the

apotheosis

> itself a severe blow at this point that never the apotheosis will

be

> like before.
>
> With faith was given the apotheosis to Caesar and to Augustus.
> Tiberius refused a such great honour. Gaius Caligula was damned.

But

> giving apotheosis to Claudius, with his murder Agrippina as
> flaminica, was the first disgrace of this institution.
>
> Valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Dea vos porrigat opitula

Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:
Isia inventio Osiris.

Today continues an Isiac festival, through 3 November, of the Passion
of Isis as She searched for the dismembered body of Osiris. It is
also the anniversary of the death of Antinous in the Nile in 130 CE.
Antinous was a Greek slave beloved by Emperor Hadrianus. His death,
some claim, was made as a self-sacrifice to benefit the Emperor,
although apparently without Hadrianus' knowledge. Afterward
Hadrianus declared Antinous a god, renamed the town where he died as
Antinopolis (Antinoe), and built temples for him, although not at
Rome. Antinous was identified as the resurrected Osiris and at times
he is also portrayed as Dionysius. That is, Hadrianus had Antinous
identified with Gods whose myths tell how They died and then
resurrected. Such cults were common in that era; the Romans knew of
twenty-two such heroes who arose from the dead to become Gods, with
Osiris, Tammz, Adonis, Attis and Hercules being some of the better
known.


The Strigae and the Changling

Tomorrow being Halloween I offer another tale of the season. This
one told around Trimalchio's table of another beloved slave.

"Now I myself shall tell you a horrible tale to make you shudder: a
real donkey upon the roof! When I was still in long curls (you see I
led a very soft life from my boyhood) the master's pet slave died. He
was a real pearl, by the Gods, a beautiful boy, and one of the best.
Well, his poor mother was crying over him and the rest of us were
deep in sorrow over it, when the strigae suddenly began screeching
and howling – you'd think it was the hounds after a hare. At that
time we had a Cappadocian slave, tall, daring, a very brave old
thing, quite a strong man – he could lift an angry ox. This fellow
rushed outside with a drawn sword, first wrapping his left hand up
very carefully, and he stabbed one of the strigae right through the
middle, just about here – may no harm come to where I'm touching! We
heard a groan, but – naturally, I'm not lying – we didn't see the
things themselves. Our big fellow, however, once he was back inside,
threw himself on his bed. His whole body was black and blue, as
though he'd been whipped. We closed the door and went back to what
we had to do, but as the mother put her arms around her son's body to
embrace him, she touched it and found it to be only a handful of
straw. It had no heart, no guts, nothing. Of course, you see, the
strigae had already stolen the boy and left a straw doll in his
plave. I put it to you, and beg you to believe – there are wise
women, the sagae, and there are the strigae, too, such women with
special powers and midnight hags that can turn everything upside
down. But to get back to that big tall fellow of ours, he never got
his color back after what happened. In fact, not many days later, he
went mad and died.

"Thrilled and convinced (by Trimalchio's tale), we kissed the table
and asked the midnight hags to stay at home until we got back from
dinner." ~ Petronius Arbitor, Satyricon 63-64


AUC 822 / 69 CE: The sack of Cremona

"Forty thousand armed men burst into Cremona, and with them a body of
sutlers and camp-followers, yet more numerous and yet more abandoned
to lust and cruelty. Neither age nor rank were any protection from
indiscriminate slaughter and violation. Aged men and women past their
prime, worthless as booty, were dragged about in wanton insult. Did a
grown up maiden or youth of marked beauty fall in their way, they
were torn in pieces by the violent hands of ravishers; and in the end
the destroyers themselves were provoked into mutual slaughter. Men,
as they carried off for themselves coin or temple-offerings of
massive gold, were cut down by others of superior strength. Some,
scorning what met the eye, searched for hidden wealth, and dug up
buried treasures, applying the scourge and the torture to the owners.
In their hands were flaming torches, which, as soon as they had
carried out the spoil, they wantonly hurled into the gutted houses
and plundered temples. In an army which included such varieties of
language and character, an army comprising Roman citizens, allies,
and foreigners, there was every kind of lust, each man had a law of
his own, and nothing was forbidden. For four days Cremonasatisfied
the plunderers. When all things else, sacred and profane, were
settling down into the flames, the temple of Mefitis outside the
walls alone remained standing, saved by its situation or by divine
interposition." ~ P. Cornelius Tacitus, Historiae 3.33


The thought of the day comes from Musonius Rufus on education for
women.

"When he was asked whether women ought to study philosophy, he began
to answer the question approximately as follows. Women have received
from the Gods the same ability to reason that men have. We men employ
reasoning in our relations with others and so far as possible in
everything we do, whether it is good or bad, or noble or shameful.
Likewise women have the same senses as men, sight, hearing, smell,
and all the rest. Likewise each has the same parts of the body, and
neither sex has more than the other. In addition, it is not men alone
who possess eagerness and a natural inclination towards virtue, but
women also. Women are pleased no less than men by noble and just
deeds, and reject the opposite of such actions. Since that is so, why
is it appropriate for men to seek out and examine how they might live
well, that is, to practise philosophy, but not women? Is it fitting
for men to be good, but not women?"

Aurelianus Varro sal.

Don't let the swinging doors hit you in the gluteus maximus on your way out.  I am not sorry to see you go.

Vale.


-----Original Message-----
From: philippe cardon <philippe.cardon01@...>
To: ReligioRomana@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; NRGallia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 5:06 pm
Subject: [Nova-Roma] adios amigos

The gens Galeria is intimately connected with Ibernia (per Livy) and you should consider joining one of the oldest plebeian gentes in Nova Roma.  According to some of the most ancient sources, the gens Galeria was once a patrician gentes in far antiquity and also is the name of one of the voting tribes of Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma.  The various houses of the gens Galeria have made significant contributions to Nova Roma as consuls, tribunes, quaestores, sacerdotes, pontiffs, flamen, praefects, and propraetores.  If you would like to have a name associated with service to Res Publica and honor to Dii Immortales, please consider the gens Galeria.

Flavius Galerius Aurelianus,
Pontiff et Flamen Cerialis
Propraetor Am. Austrorientalis
Candidate for Tribunus Plebis 


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen <kcsmith45@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 8:44 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] I am new

Rufus Albuci sal.

I think a cooling off period is a fine idea and private messages are certainly necessary. I'm
still holding my judgement until a public apology appears on this list.

I have enough experiance with mailing lists like this that I skipped all of the posts
Claudius took part in but I'm sure that some new people were put off.

Di te incolumem custodiant

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
wrote:

>
> Praetori Complutensis s.d.
>
> Thanks for him Praetor ! He can naturally *read* our Forum, and has
> sure well noted your wish, though he has accepted this evening to
> take profit of this moderation time and have some distance with our
> main list.
>
> I think that, in a nundina, Claudius will wish renewing you himself,
> directly and privately, with his words, his apologies.
>
>
> Vale Praetor,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> leg. pp. Galliae
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Complutensis" <complutensis@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes et salve Albuci
> >
> >
> >
> > Well if Varro wish to stay in Nova Roma he is welcome, under
> moderation, but
> > welcome. Now the same as I received his insults in private mails, I
> would
> > appreciate his public apology or at leas his private apology.
> >
> >
> >
> > M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
> > Praetor Novae Romae
> >
> > Senator
> > Praetor Hispaniae
> > Scriba Censoris K·F·B·M
> >
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] En
> nombre
> > de Publius Memmius Albucius
> > Enviado el: miércoles, 29 de octubre de 2008 20:41
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Moderation Notice
> >
> >
> >
> > Omnibus s.d.
> >
> > As Ap. Claudius Varro is, logically, under moderation and cannot
> thus
> > express himself here, I think necessary, as governor provincialis
> and
> > in agreement with him, to inform any interested cives that Claudius
> > has, as other of us did in the past after having, in a first time,
> > declared their resignation, finally given up his idea, and thus not
> > sent our censors the resignation notification required by our laws.
> >
> > I think that this courageous humble decision will help him making
> > more efforts bettering up his English and studying forward our
> common
> > laws.
> >
> > He has asked me to thank Lucia Aemilia for her kind words and also
> to
> > present hurt civis, and our honorable Praetors first, his apologies
> > for his breaches of our edictum de sermone, during a time when he
> > lives personal problems.
> >
> > Valete omnes,
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> > gov. Galliae
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> ps.com,
> > "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Complutensis,
> > > after Varro had violated several moderation rules, managing to
> > offend
> > > just about everybody with his tactless comments about revolutions
> > and
> > > crucified people, personally I probably wouldn't have chosen the
> > > sexual nature of his comment as the main reason to put him in
> > moderation.
> > >
> > > Anyway there can be no doubt that he needed to be put in
> moderation.
> > >
> > > Personally I'm thankful that he decided to leave Nova Roma and I
> > think
> > > we are better off without him.
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > L. Livia Plauta
> > >
> > > PS: For the people who don't understand French. You are better
> off
> > not
> > > having understood Varro's comments.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> ps.com,
> > "M. CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS"
> > > <complutensis@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ex officio Praetorium
> > > >
> > > > Yesterday citizen Appius Claudius Varro posted a message with
> > material
> > > > of a sexual nature violating de Edictum de Sermone point III
> and
> > IV.
> > > >
> > > > After read the message I decided to delete it from the ML and
> > send a
> > > > message to Appius Claudius Varro informing him that he had
> > violate the
> > > > rules of ML of Nova Roma and reminding him the rules to be
> > followed
> > > > when a citizen post a message.
> > > >
> > > > Instead a silence or a more or less polite reply, I received a
> > reply
> > > > full of insults toward the citizens of Nova Roma, the Res
> Publica
> > and
> > > > myself.
> > > >
> > > > This reply allows me to assume that this citizen is not willing
> to
> > > > follow the rules of the ML, so I decided to put him inmder total
> > > > moderation for a minimum term of one month.
> > > >
> > > > Against this decision he can appeal to the Tribuni Plebis to
> whom
> > I
> > > > sent a copy of the cited messages.
> > > >
> > > > Valete
> > > >
> > > > M. Curiatius Complutensis
> > > > Praetor Novae Romae
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Marcus Hortensius Rufus Karen sal.

I'm new too. My citizenship request and name have been approved by the censori but I
haven't taken my citizenship test yet. I have been a member of a historic re-enactment
group for many years however so I have experience with the "new name thing".

By now you know you need a Nomen and have had a flattering offer to join a particular
Gens. I found the Gens the hardest part of my name to pick.

My Praenomen was easy; my macronational (outside Nova Roma) name is Marc Bloom so I
picked Marcus for my praenomen. If I get called Marc, Marcus or Marco I'll turn my head
so it's convenient.

My cognomen was easy; my imediaet family are (or were) all red haired and that's what
Rufus means. I could have chosen Ahenobarbus which means red beard and I certainly
have one but no one in my family has had a read beard so that's too personal. Rufus is
more appropriate for my branch of the family.

The Nomen I wanted wasn't on the list (and it's not important) I looked for a name that
appealed to me on some level. I didn't like the more famous names because it seemed
arrogant. I read that Hortensius is related to "gardener" which reminded me of my Father
(who passed away last Aug) so that seemed to work.

Marcus Hortensius Rufus is my name.

I hope telling you how I came up with my name helps you come up with your own.

Optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "karen smith 45" <kcsmith45@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
>
>
> I have read and re-read the guide for choosing a name and frankly I am
> confused on how to do this. This is quite important for me so I wish to do
> this correctly the first time. I have tried to write to the Censors office
> as you suggested, however, for some reason the system will not allow it. I
> certainly would appreciate any assistance with this.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:20 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] I am new
>
>
>
> Hello Karen,
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma. For guidance on names, you should look at
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
>
> Once you've done that, if you still have questions, the best thing to
> do is to write to the Censors office. You're also welcome to write
> directly to me if you wish.
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>
> Karen <kcsmith45@... <mailto:kcsmith45%40comcast.net> > writes:
>
> > Salve,
> >
> > I am new to this list as well to Nova Roma. I am still learning all
> > the basics of Rome and all things Roman so please bear with me as I
> > will assuredly make mistakes.
> >
> > I wish to join as a citizen of Nova Roma but find that I am not sure
> > how to take on a Roman name for Karen Cyrilla Anne Smith. Although I
> > have taken my husband's surname, my origins are from Spain, a direct
> > descendant from the Maldonado family which were high ranking officers
> > to the Court of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I am not sure how
> > I should proceed. Should I latinize my current name or use my maiden
> > name of Anna Cyrilla Pagán.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008
> 7:45 AM
>

M. Hortensius Petroni sal.

Please be careful how much importance you put on writers that are so biased. How would
we view Justinian and Theodora if all we had was Procopius' Secret History and not his
History of the Wars or his The Buildings?

There are many politicians whose efforts have benefited their countries but who had disastrous personal lives.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Quiritibus s.p.d.,
>
> I think that the emperor Claudius is very important to the Anglo-
> saxons because he successfully invaded the Great Britain and here
> imported the Roman way of life, he invaded the island not himself,
> but in placing his emancipated slave, Narcissus, as leader of the
> Roman legions, the 2nd, 9th, 14th and 20th, going into this
> invasion.
>
> Claudius himself is said to go into great Britain with reinforcement
> to take Colchester the main town of the Trinovantes, in which
> resisted Caratacus (Caradoc) the son of the king Cunobelinus
> (Cynbellin). However this personal action of Claudius is under
> discussion between historians. And, very touching, he named his son
> Britannicus.
>
> Claudius is the Anglo-saxons Roman as invader which brought the
> civilization, like in France Julius Caesar is our great Roman, the
> Gaul's conqueror, even though Claudius himself was born in Gaul, in
> Lyon (Lugdunum).
>
> But, if you read Tacitus, Suetonius and Seneca you see in Claudius a
> perfect idiot, a foolish and ridiculous emperor. His wife Messalina
> publicly deceived him with Silius, and the poet Juvenal was very
> acerbic towards her (As I do not want to have the same sort of the
> NRCitizen Varro, thence I will not tell the crude words of the
> brilliant satirist), he married his niece Agrippina, the sister of
> Caligula, and mother of Nero, he was the toy of his emanciped men, he
> left his empire to his son in law Nero to the detriment of his own
> son Britannicus. A famous Jean Racine's Tragedy. And he finished
> poisoned with mushrooms given by his wife and niece Agrippina in
> order to keep the power through his young son Nero.
>
> What a pity! It was the worst and the quite weakest emperor of his
> dinasty and, at his death, his Apotheosis ( His official coming into
> the gods) was judged as a shame so choking that Seneca wrote a
> pamphlet intitulated Apocolocyntosis (Coming into the pumpkins)a very
> short and acerbic text. This brilliant mockery dealt the apotheosis
> itself a severe blow at this point that never the apotheosis will be
> like before.
>
> With faith was given the apotheosis to Caesar and to Augustus.
> Tiberius refused a such great honour. Gaius Caligula was damned. But
> giving apotheosis to Claudius, with his murder Agrippina as
> flaminica, was the first disgrace of this institution.
>
> Valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

Salvete,
the antikythera mechanism is the only one known of this type and from
this period, that's why for a while scientists thought it might have
been one of its kind.
But, even if I can't see the video until I'm back home with broadband
internet, I'm not surprised that archaeologists today no longer think
this.

The truth is that the number of bronze artifacts from graeco-roman
times that whe have now is only an infinitely small percentage of the
ones that were originally made. That's because bronze, like other
metals, was expensive and very appetible for legal and illegal
thieves, and most of the objects have been molten down for reuse.

That's why trying to infer from the artifacts we have what was common
or uncommon in ancient ages is a process with an astronomical margin
for error.

(Incidentally, that's also why I'm not convinced about the arguments
for the medieval origin of the Lupa capitolina: they say the technique
of fusion in one piece wasn't used in antiquity, but how can they say
that, when we don't even have 1% of all bronze statues produced? As
far as we know fusion in one piece might have been as widespread as
fusion in more pieces, but we have lost all the specimens.)

For the antikythera mechanism written sources didn't help, because no
mechanism like this is mentioned in the greek scientific treaties we have.
Unfortunately for written sources the situation is the same as for
bronzes: what we have is only a very small part of what was actually
written.
There is evidence that the Greeks had a huge corpus of scientific
writings, of which in most cases we don't even have fragments, but
only the accounts and summaries included in later "popular science"
works, mostly latin.

The only other artifact I've seen which required a similar level of
technical precision is an uterus dilator (a gynecological instrument)
of roman imperial times, also in the Athens archaeological museum. It
has perfect endless screws, and is so constructed that the three
dilator ends expand in three directions exactly at the same rate.
Sorry that my English isn't up to a technical descriptions. Anyway
women know what I'm talking about, because the instrument is identical
to those used today.


I guess the technological know-how needed to make these instruments
got lost in the middle ages, partly because of the general economic
and demographic decadence, but also due to the habit of ancient times
to keep technical knowledge confined to guilds or families, which made
it very easy for it to become extinct is the guild or family died out.

What made scientific revolution possible is the practice of publishing
information and technologies, giving them an extention that made
accidental extintion much more difficult.

Now if Agricola will just explain to me who this Richard of
Wallingford was, I'll try to guess whether a connection is possible.

Optime valete,
Livia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "q.cassiusseverus"
<q.cassiusseverus@...> wrote:

>
> Does anyone know if any other ancient mechanisms from this peroid
> exist or is it the only one known? I only wonder where we'd be today
> if these technologies had developed instead of being lost for
> millenia.
>
>
>
> >
> > Salve Agricola,
> > thanks for the very interesting link.
> > I have spent a few half-hours looking at the antikythera mechanism
> and
> > its old reconstruction at the Athens archeological museum.
> > With the new phpotos it's fascinating to be able to see the
> writing,
> > which is totally invisible for the naked eye.
> >
> >
> > Seeing its perfectly worked toothed wheels I couldn't help thinking
> > that it can't have been an unicum, and technology like that was
> > probably more widespread than we imagine.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> > <marcus.lucretius@> wrote:
> > >
> > > M. Lucretius Agricola Omnibus S.P.D.
> > >
> > > There is a new About.com article on the Antikythera mechanism
> > >
> > >
> > http://archaeology.about.com/b/2008/10/28/the-antikythera-
> mechanism-on-tac-and-aboutcom.htm
> > >
> > > Do not fail to follow the link to the wonderful 15 minute video.
> > >
> > > optime valete in cura deorum
> > >
> >
>

Avete Omnes;

Venator scripsit;

I have followed the thread on naming practices within our Res Publica
with interest, as I am one of the "old-timers" with an anachronistic
name.

Stephanus is the Latin form of the Greek name Stephen. I took this as
my Praenomen from my given name of Steven. It is likely quite rare in
the era from which Nova Roma takes it's naming guidance.

Ullerius is a Latinization of the "Faith Name" I have within the
Religio Septentrionalis (alias Asatru or Germanic Paganry) of
Ullarsson. Ullar (Uller) is the Northern God of Hunting, Archery,
Oath Witnessing, Duel Judging, Winter, Winter Travel and so forth. It
was he who welcomed my in July, 1989 (I believe) when I finally found
a faithway, which matched my worldview. So, thusly, I have become
known as a Son of Uller. As a Germano-Nordic living in a New Rome, I
created a Nomen, which reflected by deep and abiding Bond to Uller.

Venator as my Cognomen comes simply from my being an active hunter.

Piperbarbus as an Agnomen come from a nickname given me by a member of
the Heathen (Religio Sept.) community of Piparskeggr (Pepperbeard)
many years ago.

The derivation of my beloved wife's name is a little simpler: Annia
Ulleria Machinatrix.

Annia, a Latinization of her given name, Anita.

Ulleria, the feminine version of Ullerius.

Machinatrix from her education and experience as an Engineer.

My Nomen IS, admittedly, "made-up;" my Praenomen is slightly less
suspect ,-) My Cognomen is (almost) fully "authentic." My Agnomen a
bit less so.

I do, however, understand the desire to keep as close to the Elder
Republican naming standards as possible.

One of the things I have always admired about the Best of the
Ancients, which we seek to bring forward, was an orderliness I
perceive in how they lived their lives.

Then again, my life has always been a smidge disorderly.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Senator et Custode
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

C. Petronius L. Liviae s.p.d.,

> (Incidentally, that's also why I'm not convinced about the arguments
> for the medieval origin of the Lupa capitolina: they say the technique
> of fusion in one piece wasn't used in antiquity, but how can they say
> that, when we don't even have 1% of all bronze statues produced? As
> far as we know fusion in one piece might have been as widespread as
> fusion in more pieces, but we have lost all the specimens.)

The Ancients Known the fusion in one piece, and Pliny the Elder give us
the name of this kind of statues: holosphyraton. (Book XXXIII, 82). In
fact, the argument against the Lupa Capitolina is that her style is
more medieval (carolingian) than Etruscan. Something else is odd, on
the coins the Lupa Capitolina is licking the babies (Remus and Romulus)
feeding. The Lupa Capitolina has not this attitude.

Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter

L. Livia C. Petronio optimo suo sal.

Yoy are right that the position of the lupa in coins is different from
the one of Lupa capitolina, but the Lupa capitolina originally did not
have the babies.
Anyway the two main arguments given by experts for postdating it to
the Middle Ages were that it's fused in one piece (thanks for the
quotation from Pliny that proves the phallacy of this), and the
radiocarbon dating of some earth inside the wolf's leg (which could
have got there later, through the hole).
Some archaeologists are skeptic apout this postdatation anyway.
As to the style argument, I didn't read that anywhere. I'm not an
expert, but the statue seems too realistic to me to be carolingian.

I have several photos I took recently, even from unusual perspectives,
like the belly, the tail, etc. I guess I should put them on the wiki
when I'm back home, along with photos of the antikythera mechanism,
and the uterus dilator I mentioned before.

Optime vale,
Livia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

>
> C. Petronius L. Liviae s.p.d.,
>
> > (Incidentally, that's also why I'm not convinced about the arguments
> > for the medieval origin of the Lupa capitolina: they say the technique
> > of fusion in one piece wasn't used in antiquity, but how can they say
> > that, when we don't even have 1% of all bronze statues produced? As
> > far as we know fusion in one piece might have been as widespread as
> > fusion in more pieces, but we have lost all the specimens.)
>
> The Ancients Known the fusion in one piece, and Pliny the Elder give us
> the name of this kind of statues: holosphyraton. (Book XXXIII, 82). In
> fact, the argument against the Lupa Capitolina is that her style is
> more medieval (carolingian) than Etruscan. Something else is odd, on
> the coins the Lupa Capitolina is licking the babies (Remus and Romulus)
> feeding. The Lupa Capitolina has not this attitude.
>
> Vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:

>

> Now if Agricola will just explain to me who this Richard of
> Wallingford was, I'll try to guess whether a connection is possible.
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

Agricola Plautae sal.

Richard of Wallingford was the 14th c. CE builder of an astronomical
clock. He was followed by Giovanni di Dondi, an Italian, who also made
a well-known astrarium.

optime vale!

Salve Karen,

Welcome to NR! It appears it is your good fortune to have many offers
of assistance from amongst the most knowledgeable citizens!

Vale,

Julia Aquila

Salvete Quirites, Salvete Romani,

The Gods are coming home, more than 1600 years after their public
worship had been forbidden by Theodosius I. in 391-392 / 1144 ab
urbe condita .

The long-term intent of this sodalitas is to provide a temple/or
templum to the Gods for the public worship of the Roman Gods in
Rome.

Ad Templum Diis immortalibus Romae aedificandum.

Rome is the urbs, it is the place to honor the gods and it will
ensure the rebirth of Romanitas thus benefiting Nova Roma as a whole.

We would like to ask all interested citizens to join , support and
to unite for this great project . This project will give to all
citizens and amici of Nova Roma the opportunity to create and build
a temple for the eternal Gods of Rome.
Each and any citizen and amici of Nova Roma will be able to use it,
to visit and to participate in the religious rites.

All civis and amici (friends) of Nova Roma are invited to join the
sodalitas by making application to the Collegium of the sodalitas,
by providing their Citizen Name, their provincia, and their contact
email address.


Di immortales vobis faveant !


Optime valete
Collegium sodalitas proDIIS
Titus Flavius Aquila
Gaius Marius Basilius
Marcus Octavius Corvus

Salve Alexander,

regret to see you leave.

All the best for your future and I hope you will find an
organisation which will fit in your Christian believe.

On the other hand, reading your statement again, if you call my
Religion the Religio Romana - the one I deeply admire, follow and
believe in - a false Religion, then the best thing is, you really
leave our Res Publica.

Vale
Titus Flavius Aquila


________________________________________
Von: L AVR SEVERVS <luciusaureliusseverus@...>
An: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Freitag, den 31. Oktober 2008, 13:24:32 Uhr
Betreff: [NovaRoma-Announce] Resignation of Citizenship


I, Alexander Fraser, known as Lucius Aurelius Severus, hereby resign
my citizenship in Nova Roma.

It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies and politicians are
becoming more and more anti-Christian, a faith which I hold dear.

As the only two candidates for Consul for 2762 intend to promote the
cult of the "Religio Romana" during their term of office, and seeing
that they are the only two candidates running for the 2 offices of
Consul, it is clear that they will be given this mandate.

There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing Christian, will
continue to participate in a recreational group that promotes false
religion.

In the words of Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:

"We deeply believe that the cult of the Roman Religion must not be
any
more a private or even anecdotal matter and must become more public,
really present in the every day life of Nova Roma and the Nova
Romans."

There is absolutely no way that a false religion will become part of
my everyday life, whether in or out of Nova Roma.

Therefore, I resign my citizenship effective immediately.

Jesus Is Lord!

Iesus Est Dominus!

Signed,

Alexander S. Fraser

prid. Kal. Nov. ‡ M. Moravio T. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXI a.u.c.

(October 31, 2008)

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Curate ut valeatis, et Di vos servent.

Hodie est die pristini Kalendas Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:
Isia inventio Osiris.

Happy Halloween!

Felices natalis! Today is the birthday of Raina Cornelia Valeria
Iuliana Aeternia, known to some of us as (((*TINK*))) And speaking
of birthdays, I forgot, by a couple of days, Po! Happy belated
birthday Pompeia Minucia Strabo! And by almost a month now, on the
Kalends Octobris, Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.


AUC 709 /44 BCE A Ghost Story from Cicero

"Two Arcadian companions traveled together and came to Megara. One of
them went to stay at an inn, the other with a friend. After a meal
they took to their beds. Just after he had retired for the night the
man who was staying with a friend saw a vision of the other companion
in his dreams, in which he pleaded for help, because the innkeeper
was plotting to murder him. His first reaction was to awaken in
terror at the dream, but then he gathered his wits, concluded that
the vision was untrue and went back to sleep. As he slept he saw
another vision in which the same companion begged him that he should
not suffer his death to go unavenged, since he had not come to his
aid while still alive. After killing him, he said, the innkeeper had
thrown his body on the back of a cart and covered it with dung. He
asked him to bring himself to the town gate in the
morning before the cart could leave the place. This dream disturbed
the young man, and so he confronted the driver at the gate and asked
him what was in the cart. He fled in terror, the dead man was pulled
out of the dung, all was revealed, and the innkeeper paid the
penalty." ~ Cicero, On Divination 1.57


What would All Hallow's Eve be without a good, old fashion Roman
curse or two? Here are some examples of Roman defixiationes from
across the Empire. What is interesting about such curses, I think, is
how closely they resemble the prayers of Romans in other situations,
although there are differences, too.


"Holy Father Dis and Veracura and Cerebus who stands guard at the
gates between the world above and the infernal regions, to you I
pray. Cause Eudemus to pass most swiftly to the infernal regions.
Within nine days may he repay his debt. I fix firmly, I drive this
nail in Eudemus. May you kill him by a most dreadful death. May you
lead him to the infernal regions. May you gather him to the god of
the infernal attendants, the Manes. Thus may he have the burden of
fate written on this lead, and may Eudemus go away to you among the
furious Larvae. May this be done most swiftly. ~ AE 1929, 228,
Carnumtum (Petronell), Pannonia superior


"I pray to You who reigns over the infernal regions, to You I commend
Julia Faustilla, daughter of Marius, that You may quickly carry her
off, abduct her to the nether regions and there may You count her
among the spirits of the dead." ~ CIL 8, 12505 a and b, Carthago,
Africa proconsularis


"Lord Neptune, I commend to You the fellow who pounced upon what
rightfully belongs to Muconus and therefore I remit to You the six
silver coins along with the one who stole them, whether male or
female, whether a boy or a girl, therefore I give to You, Niske, and
for Neptune the life, health, and blood of him whose conscious will
be filled with guilt, his mind beguiled, he who violated me in here,
and who knows his guilt, in order that You ensnare this thief who
violated me in this way; may You attack him and consume his blood,
Lord Neptune." ~ AE 1997, 977, Hamble, Britannia


"Whether a gentilis or Christian, a man or woman, whether a boy or
girl, whether freeborn or slave, whoever has stolen from me,
Annianus, son of Matutina, six silver coins from my purse, may You,
Divine Lady, exact in kind from him. If through some deceit he has
made (some claim) against me, may it fall back on him, paid in his
own blood, who has invoked it upon me." ~ AE 1982, 667 = Bath-4, 98,
Aquae Sulis (Bath), Britannia


"I denounce the persons written below, Lentinus and Tasgillus, so
that they may depart to Pluto. Just as this puppy harmed no one, so
shall they be unable to harm anyone, and so they shall be unable to
win their legal suit. Just as the mother of this puppy was unable to
defend her young, so shall their advocate be unable to defend them,
and thus shall their advocate Atracatetractus Gallara be unable to
plead their case, but, in this way, may their secrets be misled to
the feet of Proserpina. Just as this puppy is turned on its back and
unable to go, so neither may they, just as this puppy is unable to
rise up, may they be able to do so. Just as this puppy is, thus may
they not be seen. Just as this puppy, just as in this tomb its
animal's soul is transformed and silenced, so may they be unable to
rise, and may the pronouncements of Atracatetractus Gallera in their
defense be unable to mislead the opinion of the court with pleas of
secret heirs." ~ CIL 13.11070; AE 1897, 50; Chagnon en Saintonge,
Aquitania


Then there is Propertius...

May the earth bring forth thorns to engulf your sepulcher, procuress,
and may your shade, no longer animated by the power of life,
experience only thirst. May the Manes besiege your ashes in the
funerary urn, and may avenging Cerberus, hungering for your ghost,
terrify you with a ravenous howling. ~ Propertius, Eligiae 4.5.1-4


Our thought for today is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 5.33:

"Soon, very soon, thou wilt be ashes, or a skeleton, and either a
name or not even a name; but name is sound and echo. And the things
which are much valued in life are empty and rotten and trifling, and
like little dogs biting one another, and little children quarrelling,
laughing, and then straightway weeping. But fidelity and modesty and
justice and truth are 'fled up to Olympus from the wide-spread
earth.' What then is there which still detains thee here? If the
objects of sense are easily changed and never stand still, and the
organs of perception are dull and easily receive false impressions;
and the poor soul itself is an exhalation from blood. But to have
good repute amidst such a world as this is an empty thing. Why then
dost thou not wait in tranquility for thy end, whether it is
extinction or removal to another state? And until that time comes,
what is sufficient? Why, what else than to venerate the gods and
bless them, and to do good to men, and to practise tolerance and self-
restraint; but as to everything which is beyond the limits of the
poor flesh and breath, to remember that this is neither thine nor in
thy power."

Salve Alexander,

I must say that I have to agree with Titus Aquila when he says that this is a good opportunity for you to seek a community of like minded Christians who are just as intolerent of the religio of others whom you can not agree with, and compels you to to insult our Religio as the false one.Truly an example of the religious intolerance of the early christians who were responsible for the persecution of our religio almost on par with the holocaust.

You knew when you joined Nova Roma that the State Religio was the Religio Romana.Did you truly believe that would change to suit your particular predudicial view of our Cultus Deorum.?Maybe you contemplated some sort of insurection by the christian element within our Res Publica.Even though time and time again, our leaders have stated that all faiths are welcome within Nova Roma .A testament to the attitude and to the desire to emulate, our ancient Roman roots, by respecting the tolerence which prevailed in that great Republic.

It is a matter of historical fact, that the christians of that age took advantage of this tolerence to destroy the greatest civilization the world has ever known, and plunged mankind into the thousand year dark ages.If not for that persecution of religion and science, man by now may have reached the stars,cured dreaded diseases,and solved many of the imperfections of our modern day world.To echo the sentiment of one of our most illustrious citizens,don't let the swinging doors hit you in the glutius maximus on the way out.Vale

For the Gods!

Ap. Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

> From: titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation of Citizenship Lucius Aurelius Severus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 9:38 AM
> Salve Alexander,
>
> regret to see you leave.
>
> All the best for your future and I hope you will find an
> organisation which will fit in your Christian believe.
>
> On the other hand, reading your statement again, if you
> call my
> Religion the Religio Romana - the one I deeply admire,
> follow and
> believe in - a false Religion, then the best thing is, you
> really
> leave our Res Publica.
>
> Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: L AVR SEVERVS <luciusaureliusseverus@...>
> An: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Freitag, den 31. Oktober 2008, 13:24:32 Uhr
> Betreff: [NovaRoma-Announce] Resignation of Citizenship
>
>
> I, Alexander Fraser, known as Lucius Aurelius Severus,
> hereby resign
> my citizenship in Nova Roma.
>
> It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies and
> politicians are
> becoming more and more anti-Christian, a faith which I hold
> dear.
>
> As the only two candidates for Consul for 2762 intend to
> promote the
> cult of the "Religio Romana" during their term of
> office, and seeing
> that they are the only two candidates running for the 2
> offices of
> Consul, it is clear that they will be given this mandate.
>
> There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing
> Christian, will
> continue to participate in a recreational group that
> promotes false
> religion.
>
> In the words of Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:
>
> "We deeply believe that the cult of the Roman Religion
> must not be
> any
> more a private or even anecdotal matter and must become
> more public,
> really present in the every day life of Nova Roma and the
> Nova
> Romans."
>
> There is absolutely no way that a false religion will
> become part of
> my everyday life, whether in or out of Nova Roma.
>
> Therefore, I resign my citizenship effective immediately.
>
> Jesus Is Lord!
>
> Iesus Est Dominus!
>
> Signed,
>
> Alexander S. Fraser
>
> prid. Kal. Nov. ‡ M. Moravio T. Iulio cos. ‡ MMDCCLXI
> a.u.c.
>
> (October 31, 2008)

Salvete omnes

Lucius Aurelius Severus has renounced his citizenship and abbandoned
the ML.

He cannot read our messages.

Valete

M. Cur. Complutensis
Praetor

Salvete,
So not only is he a quiter he is a coward as well.
Valete,
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, M. CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...> wrote:

> From: M. CVRIATIVS COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation of Citizenship Lucius Aurelius Severus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 11:01 AM
> Salvete omnes
>
> Lucius Aurelius Severus has renounced his citizenship and
> abbandoned
> the ML.
>
> He cannot read our messages.
>
> Valete
>
> M. Cur. Complutensis
> Praetor

    My question is, "Why did he join Nova Roma at all?" Christianity is exclusivist. Nova Roma IS A PAGAN ORGANIZATION. It has a clear and extremely obvious religious mission. Our Constitution, section VI, subsection A, states, "The Religio Romana, the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova Roma." Nova Roma's reason for existence is the Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic mandates, promotes the Religio Romana. Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the priority it deserved in the past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now.
    I guess I don't understand why this topic keeps coming up. Have the Christians in Nova Roma who have an issue with this not read the Constitution, the Declaration, or any of the thousands of messages on our lists? I was a devout Christian for many years. During that time, here is no way that I could have been a part of Nova Roma; my beliefs would not have allowed it. This is not a "jab at Christians", but a fact of Christian belief and practice itself.  If you have a problem with the Religio Romana, I suggest you leave. Might I suggest that the Christians who wish to promote their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of their own based on the very late imperial period when Christianity was growing. Or join a re-enactment legion that does not have a religious component. There is obviously room in the world for multiple groups; there is no need to mix if it is uncomfortable for either party. But, in any case, please stop wasting our time.

Dii deaeque Romae amo adoroque! I love and worship the gods and goddesses of Rome!

Optime valete!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos Cn. Caelio s. p. d. >>>  One other point concerning Mr. Fraser: this is why I believe that Christians should not be placed in positions of authority in Nova Roma. <<< I most respectfully disagree with this. You, as well many here forget the fact that there are not only exclusivist but also inclusivist Christians. I myself am most devoted to the Roman religion but also have a belief in Christ, and I have a similar inclusivist attitude towards many religions. My philosophy and religion is Harmonism, as I call it. I know there are many other people here and in other places, too, who both practice Roman religion and believe in Christ. This should not be a problem of a Roman soul or a Roman mind. This is a genuine Roman attitude towards religions, and it's also our strength: inclusiveness. - This word should be our god creating the New Roman Republic, as well as it was the key word when the Old Republic was born. Well, what should you have to say instead of the words cited above? I think you should have to say that people who are reluctant to participate in public Roman sacrifices or in any other way don't want to do those religious duties their public office requires to do, these people are who should not be placed in positions of authority in Nova Roma. I hope this was more exactly that you wanted to say. Vale! Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Q U A E S T O R P O N T I F E X SACERDOS CONCORDIAE ------------------------------------------ Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae Interpres Linguae Hungaricae Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae ------------------------------------------- Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis Dominus Factionis Russatae Latinista, Classicus Philologus

---

Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!

D. Svetonius Lupus omnibus S.P.D. Salvete Omnes !   When I first joined N/R about a year or so ago, the subject of Pagan versus Christian was a "hot topic " then. I was advised  that as a practicing Christian, which I am, that was my choice,  there was no pressure upon me to acknowledge the " Cultus Deorum"   My principal reasons for joining Nova Roma, lie in my love of Greco/Roman History, particularly  Roman Military History and my love of Latin and Roman Arts and Literature.   As a practicing Christian ( I am a Sub Decanus in the Anglican Church) I do not prosyletize and certainly not on N/R; I'm here for the enjoyment with like minded enthusiasts of Roman History.   By the same token, I do not expect to be pressured or in any way marginalized as a Practicing Christian in N/R, nor due I hold "True Faith and Allegiance to anyone but God and the United States of America.  I t ook my oath in the U.S. Army to defend and uphold the Constitution of the U.S.. 50 years ago and nothing has changed.   It sounds like a cliche' but why can't people " just be friends and get along  ?"   Take a moment to think about what I'm saying people. When a good thing like Nova Roma, which glorifies the best of The Roman Culture descends to infighting, everyone loses.   Fratres: Vale et Bene D. Svetonius Lupus Michael P. Orley --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> wrote: From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Christians and their problems with Nova Roma To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 3:40 PM Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.     I know that Mr. Fraser can no longer read this, so I am speaking to everyone. >It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies and politicians are >becoming more and more anti-Christian       Actually, it seems that the Religio Romana is growing in strength. If a person holds an anti-Christian viewpoint, that is their prerogative. >There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing Christian, will >continue to participate in a recreational group that promotes false >religion.     My question is, "Why did he join Nova Roma at all?" Christianity is exclusivist. Nova Roma IS A PAGAN ORGANIZATION. It has a clear and extremely obvious religious mission. Our Constitution, section VI, subsection A, states, "The Religio Romana, the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova Roma." Nova Roma's reason for existence is the Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic mandates, promotes the Religio Romana. Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the priority it deserved in the past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now.     I guess I don't understand why this topic keeps coming up. Have the Christians in Nova Roma who have an issue with this not read the Constitution, the Declaration, or any of the thousands of messages on our lists? I was a devout Christian for many years. During that time, here is no way that I could have been a part of Nova Roma; my beliefs would not have allowed it. This is not a "jab at Christians", but a fact of Christian belief and practice itself.  If you have a problem with the Religio Romana, I suggest you leave. Might I suggest that the Christians who wish to promote their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of their own based on the very late imperial period when Christianity was growing. Or join a re-enactment legion that does not have a religious component. There is obviously room in the world for multiple groups; there is no need to mix if it is uncomfortable for either party. But, in any case, please stop wasting our time. Dii deaeque Romae amo adoroque! I love and worship the gods and goddesses of Rome! Optime valete! -- Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Salve Galerius,

Hear hear to your response. I could not agree with you more. I might add that each Autumn there is a dying off in the plant world. Let these "leaves" die off for new ones to spring forth. Our Gods want that to happen.

Decimus Ovidius Triarius

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...> wrote:

> From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation of Citizenship Lucius Aurelius Severus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 9:49 AM
> Salve Alexander,
>
> I must say that I have to agree with Titus Aquila when he
> says that this is a good opportunity for you to seek a
> community of like minded Christians who are just as
> intolerent of the religio of others whom you can not agree
> with, and compels you to to insult our Religio as the false
> one.Truly an example of the religious intolerance of the
> early christians who were responsible for the persecution of
> our religio almost on par with the holocaust.
>
> You knew when you joined Nova Roma that the State Religio
> was the Religio Romana.Did you truly believe that would
> change to suit your particular predudicial view of our
> Cultus Deorum.?Maybe you contemplated some sort of
> insurection by the christian element within our Res
> Publica.Even though time and time again, our leaders have
> stated that all faiths are welcome within Nova Roma .A
> testament to the attitude and to the desire to emulate, our
> ancient Roman roots, by respecting the tolerence which
> prevailed in that great Republic.
>
> It is a matter of historical fact, that the christians of
> that age took advantage of this tolerence to destroy the
> greatest civilization the world has ever known, and plunged
> mankind into the thousand year dark ages.If not for that
> persecution of religion and science, man by now may have
> reached the stars,cured dreaded diseases,and solved many of
> the imperfections of our modern day world.To echo the
> sentiment of one of our most illustrious citizens,don't
> let the swinging doors hit you in the glutius maximus on the
> way out.Vale
>
> For the Gods!
>
> Ap. Galerius Aurelianus
>
> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, titus.aquila
> <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
> > From: titus.aquila <titus.aquila@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation of Citizenship Lucius
> Aurelius Severus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 9:38 AM
> > Salve Alexander,
> >
> > regret to see you leave.
> >
> > All the best for your future and I hope you will find
> an
> > organisation which will fit in your Christian believe.
> >
> > On the other hand, reading your statement again, if
> you
> > call my
> > Religion the Religio Romana - the one I deeply admire,
> > follow and
> > believe in - a false Religion, then the best thing is,
> you
> > really
> > leave our Res Publica.
> >
> > Vale
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Von: L AVR SEVERVS
> <luciusaureliusseverus@...>
> > An: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
> > Gesendet: Freitag, den 31. Oktober 2008, 13:24:32 Uhr
> > Betreff: [NovaRoma-Announce] Resignation of
> Citizenship
> >
> >
> > I, Alexander Fraser, known as Lucius Aurelius Severus,
> > hereby resign
> > my citizenship in Nova Roma.
> >
> > It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies and
> > politicians are
> > becoming more and more anti-Christian, a faith which I
> hold
> > dear.
> >
> > As the only two candidates for Consul for 2762 intend
> to
> > promote the
> > cult of the "Religio Romana" during their
> term of
> > office, and seeing
> > that they are the only two candidates running for the
> 2
> > offices of
> > Consul, it is clear that they will be given this
> mandate.
> >
> > There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing
> > Christian, will
> > continue to participate in a recreational group that
> > promotes false
> > religion.
> >
> > In the words of Marcus Curiatius Complutensis:
> >
> > "We deeply believe that the cult of the Roman
> Religion
> > must not be
> > any
> > more a private or even anecdotal matter and must
> become
> > more public,
> > really present in the every day life of Nova Roma and
> the
> > Nova
> > Romans."
> >
> > There is absolutely no way that a false religion will
> > become part of
> > my everyday life, whether in or out of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Therefore, I resign my citizenship effective
> immediately.
> >
> > Jesus Is Lord!
> >
> > Iesus Est Dominus!
> >
> > Signed,
> >
> > Alexander S. Fraser
> >
> > prid. Kal. Nov. ‡ M. Moravio T. Iulio cos. ‡
> MMDCCLXI
> > a.u.c.
> >
> > (October 31, 2008)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Salvete omnes,

Two points;

1) If memory serves me correctly Lucius Aurelius was never that
comfortable with the NR Religio aspects and I vaguely recall him
wavering back and forth on deciding whether to stay or not, asking
his Minister if the Oath of office was ok, talking to his wife etc.
Such people are in a position where it is only a matter of time
before they leave so no surprises here.

2) As for a "few" prationers' comments here, I see no reason to rub
salt into old wounds. Saying Christians ought not to hold office or
similar responsibilities only shoots yourselves in the foot. Many
here have devoted much of their free time and energy, payed their
taxes, held offices well and even donating extra money to our
treasury every year which brings me to this question. Who would
please the gods more;these Christians mentioned who helpto support
and uphold this organization or many so called Religio practitioners
who sit in the shadows with their thumbs up their posteriors doing
nothing at all let alone contributing financially? Try and imagine
for a moment if these Christians were not around.

Valete bene,

Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio salutem: >>> Actually, it seems that the Religio Romana is growing in strength. <<< This is indeed true, Cn Caeli! The Roman religion has a better position as our state religion today and our administration makes a good emphasis on it. This was all what I wanted this year, this is what I want to continue to do now as a pontifex and this is what our new pontifex maximus and consul M. Moravius a waranty for. >>> If a person holds an anti-Christian viewpoint, that is their prerogative.<<< Anti-Christianism is un-Roman. It wasn't un-Roman when Christians fought against the ancient Roman religion: anti-Christianism then was a self-defence and was a very Roman thing to do. Today the situation is different. Today Christians are who must defend themselves and we are victorious: at least in our virtual state where Roman religion is the only accepted and promoted religion. Now Christianity and Romanity are parts of the same tradition and I can't understand other approach to Christianism than the good old Roman inclusiveness and syncretism. >>> My question is, "Why did he join Nova Roma at all?" Christianity is exclusivist. <<< Speak for youself. There are million versions of Christianism and there are inclusivist Christians, right here among us. And, on the other hand, Nova Roma in its all public advertisement explicitly states that being polytheist is not a requirement to join, and that Nova Roma is an open inclusive organization for everybody who is interested in "all things Roman". This is why Christians, Jews, Muslims join. >>> Nova Roma IS A PAGAN ORGANIZATION.<<< Nova Roma *is* an educational and religious nonprofit organization. Members of our organization are told that through active participation they will learn how Roman social and political institutions work and what was Roman culture and life. This is our educational part. We are also a religious organization that "promotes the study and practice" of the Roman religion. But nowhere is written you yourself must practice it, or those who can't practice it aren't welcome... >>> Nova Roma's reason for existence is the Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic mandates, promotes the Religio Romana. Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the priority it deserved in the past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now. <<< That's right and I hope - and not only hope but I do - that it be so! >>>> Might I suggest that the Christians who wish to promote their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of their own based on the very late imperial period when Christianity was growing. <<< I'm against this suggestion. We are the new Roman nation and everybody who feels Roman must join here and not to another place. We have a mission: to restore the Roman state. All other Roman "states" are questioning our legitimacy... We have to include Christians, not to separate them. Deos deasque Romae amemus adoreumusque! (Let's love and worship the gods and goddesses of Rome!)

---

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D. Svetonius Lupus Q. Svetonio Paulino S.P.D.   Very well put; I applaud you for your common sense approach. Vale et Bene D. Svetonius Lupus Michael P. Orley --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) <mjk@...> wrote: From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly) <mjk@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Resignation of Citizenship Lucius Aurelius Severus To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 5:27 PM Salvete omnes, Two points; 1) If memory serves me correctly Lucius Aurelius was never that comfortable with the NR Religio aspects and I vaguely recall him wavering back and forth on deciding whether to stay or not, asking his Minister if the Oath of office was ok, talking to his wife etc. Such people are in a position where it is only a matter of time before they leave so no surprises here. 2) As for a "few" prationers' comments here, I see no reason to rub salt into old wounds. Saying Christians ought not to hold office or similar responsibilities only shoots yourselves in the foot. Many here have devoted much of their free time and energy, payed their taxes, held offices well and even donating extra money to our treasury every year which brings me to this question. Who would please the gods more;these Christians mentioned who helpto support and uphold this organization or many so called Religio practitioners who sit in the shadows with their thumbs up their posteriors doing nothing at all let alone contributing financially? Try and imagine for a moment if these Christians were not around. Valete bene, Quintus Suetonius Paulinus ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

...and learn from your mistakes.

Hispania was a great province in the past. Plenty of citizens, of
ideas, of activities...

But then he came. At first, he seemed a kind and humble person. He
gained the confidence of many other citizens, and the provincial Curia
proposed him as governor to the Senate.

When he became governor, he changed his face and became an ambitious
and autoritarian man. The hispani were surprised with his personality
shift, and many left Nova Roma forever.

One term and another the Senate appointed him as governor, despite his
ambition and the fact that Hispania was loosing all its population. He
is the feudal lord of this province, that is now his demesne.

But nothing can stop him. He gained another appointment and began to
climb the Cursus Honorum, and... what about the supreme magistrature?

Beware, novaromani.


Servus Veritatis

Ave Karen

Welcome aboard.Just go to NovaRoma site and follow the instruction for "new citizen" there are good tips for someone who want to find a roman names.
we always are willing to help who need help.If you have any problem don't hesitate to post your questions.

Vale
Marcus Apuleius Maritimus



--- Mer 29/10/08, Karen <kcsmith45@...> ha scritto:

> Da: Karen <kcsmith45@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] I am new
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Mercoledì 29 ottobre 2008, 13:44
> Salve,
>
> I am new to this list as well to Nova Roma. I am still
> learning all
> the basics of Rome and all things Roman so please bear with
> me as I
> will assuredly make mistakes.
>
> I wish to join as a citizen of Nova Roma but find that I am
> not sure
> how to take on a Roman name for Karen Cyrilla Anne Smith.
> Although I
> have taken my husband's surname, my origins are from
> Spain, a direct
> descendant from the Maldonado family which were high
> ranking officers
> to the Court of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. I am
> not sure how
> I should proceed. Should I latinize my current name or use
> my maiden
> name of Anna Cyrilla Pagán.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Vale

Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
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Servo Veritatis s.d.

I feel very uncomfortable reading your post, which reminds me the
darkest hours of Roman proscription times or more recent Nazi
occupation, when one could denounce a neighbor, just to put the hand
on an estate or a few monies.

You are speaking of a "he", without revealing who you are speaking
about, and in a style that would not have rejected the Inquisitors or
3rd Reich Propagandastaffel.

If you are a "servus veritatis", so a servant of the truth, you are
sure, first, a Roman and even, maybe also a latinist.
If you are such a Roman, you probably prefer, as I do, speaking
direct and name a cat a cat.

So, unless you bring us another name, you are denouncing M. Curiatius
Complutensis' - currently preator and candidate to the consulate -
irresistible ascension.

Well this is your right, but things are far better when said. And
they are said now.

On the matter and Hispania province hostory, you may have lived
things, as a Spain civis (?), inside prov. Hispania. I did not,
having just lived this time outside.

Imho, things have been more complicated than you are describing them.
Most of Hispani cives had expressed, since several months, their wish
to live their romanity in more daily and real activities, as
reenactment events (Leg. IX for ex.).

In their mind, Nova Roma was not able to bring them these things, and
they decided not to wait for living them, specially in the frame of a
local ngo. The two previous governors of Hispania have not wished
preserving the link between these dynamic people and Nova Roma, and
the republic has been happy enough to be proposed the name of Hon.
Curiatius, to keep the Novaroman Spain house, and its door open.

The harm had thus been made before.


Vale,


P. Memmius Albucius



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "john.wycliff" <john.wycliff@...>
wrote:

>
> ...and learn from your mistakes.
>
> Hispania was a great province in the past. Plenty of citizens, of
> ideas, of activities...
>
> But then he came. At first, he seemed a kind and humble person. He
> gained the confidence of many other citizens, and the provincial

Curia

> proposed him as governor to the Senate.
>
> When he became governor, he changed his face and became an ambitious
> and autoritarian man. The hispani were surprised with his

personality

> shift, and many left Nova Roma forever.
>
> One term and another the Senate appointed him as governor, despite

his

> ambition and the fact that Hispania was loosing all its population.

He

> is the feudal lord of this province, that is now his demesne.
>
> But nothing can stop him. He gained another appointment and began to
> climb the Cursus Honorum, and... what about the supreme

magistrature?

>
> Beware, novaromani.
>
>
> Servus Veritatis
>

M. Hortensia Cn. Caelio Cn. Cornelio spd;
I am totally fine with inclusivists. But last year my Saturnalia
and New Year's was ruined by having to fight a lawsuit, claiming I
incited hatred to Christianity brought by and then almost adjudjed by
two non-inclusivist praetors: Cato and Scholastica. And Marinus who
brought the suit.

I had sent my post to both A. Apollonius Cordus and C. Curius
Saturninus and they both said it wasn't offensive -just to be sure.

Our current censor Ti. Galerius Paulinus, candidates: Popillius
Laenas- censor , Gn Iulius Caesar-censor, Gn. Equitius Marinus-
praetor. Are all Christians, are they inclusivist? I hope so.

I really think we need to make sure our officials personally take
the oath to the gods, take their own auspices etc Then this would
become a non-question.

Finally there was this old idea in Nova Roma of 'orthopraxy' that
you didn't have to believe in the gods to take auspices etc; this is
a completely incorrect Christian interpretation of the cultus deorum.


Christians think in terms of catechisms, binding written professions
of faith. This is typical of their cultus only. Jews don't do this at
all. We would ask is someone 'observant' meaning -do they perform
prayers and ceremonies, to see how religious they are. It is
orthopractic similar to the cultus deorum.
Modianus, who has a Rabbi as a professor helped me to realize this.

Romans saw themselves this way and the best example is in Livy XXVII,
8, 4-10; that of Valerius Flaccus, a dissipated Roman of bad
reputation who was made Flamen Dialis against his will. The result:
he became an exemplary Flamen Dialis.

So by taking auspices, holding games, honoring the gods, in Roman
eyes you will become a devout cultor, worshipper of the gods.
M. Hortensia Maior
sacerdos Mentis

>

> >
> >I most respectfully disagree
> with this. You, as well many here forget the fact
> >that there are not
> only exclusivist but also inclusivist Christians. I myself
> >am most
> devoted to the Roman religion but also have a belief in Christ, and
> >I
> have a similar inclusivist attitude towards many religions. My
> philosophy
> >and religion is Harmonism, as I call it.
>
>
> You yourself acknowledge my point exactly: you are not a

Christian but

> a "Harmonist". The Christian faith itself is inherently

exclusivist, as are

> Judaism and Islam; it is a basic tenet of their beliefs. Now, one

can

> definitely believe in Jesus and his teachings (I do, mostly) yet

not be a

> Christian. I do not wish to "kick out all the Christians", but I do

wish to

> have Nova Roma do amazing things as an organization and I do not

wish

> to see people hinder it as Mr. Fraser has done. I see this in a

similar way

> to the idea that a Satanist would not be hired to work at a

Christian

> church; their beliefs and activities would be contradictory to one

another.

> This is where my comments can be misunderstood. I do not mind
> having magistrates who include Jesus as one of the gods amongst all

the

> Roman gods and who would willingly perform rituals to the gods as a

part

> of their duty to the state. But Christians who follow their faith--

what you term

> "exclusivist Christians"--would be unable to do that, and may even
> disagree with Nova Roma overall (as we have seen with Mr. Fraser and
> his departure). These people should not be allowed to serve as

magistrates

> due to the fact that they refuse to recognize the gods (according

to section VI,

> subsection A, of the constitution; one must obviously recognize

their existence

> before offering respect) and refuse to take part in rituals.
> So, I guess for me it comes down to this: no matter your faith,

you can

> help Nova Roma grow and do amazing things. Yet, if your faith

prevents

> you from doing this, or if it suggests that you actively prevent

such

> activity, I would suggest that you find another organization which

matches

> your beliefs more closely. I know Nova Roma has a history with

this, and

> it's obvious that it is still an issue. I hope we, as an

organization, can work

> together to make Nova Roma great. And, as always, I am willing to
> change my mind and position as new arguments come to light.
> (As an aside, I self-identify as an "Indo-European polytheist".

I am

> very close to some strands of Hinduism, and I have started to

worship

> the Roman gods and goddesses this year. My faiths--both Hinduism and
> Religio Romana--have no problem with Shiva, Durga, Krishna, Iupiter,
> Diana, and Sol being on my altar together.)
>
> Deos deamque Romae amo! I love the gods and goddesses of Rome!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
>

Salve Ahenobarbe,

Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> writes:

> I do wish to
> have Nova Roma do amazing things as an organization and I do not wish
> to see people hinder it as Mr. Fraser has done.

Would you please give me a concrete example of exactly how Mr. Fraser
harmed Nova Roma? He stepped forward to become provincial governor
when nobody else wanted the job. He continued to serve even when he
was having a crisis of faith that he asked the Senate about. When he
could no longer serve in good conscience he resigned.

How did any of that hurt Nova Roma?

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve Ahenobarbe,

Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> writes:

> We would have probably had
> a more-active governor in Mr. Fraser's province.

We would have had no governor in Mr. Fraser's province. Mr. Fraser
has served as governor for nearly a year after he asked to be relieved
as soon as possible. There has been no other citizen in Canada
Cisterior who has stepped forward to take over from him.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Cn. Iulius Caesar M. Hortensiae Maori Quiritibus et omnibus sal.

> Our current censor Ti. Galerius Paulinus, candidates: Popillius
> Laenas- censor , Gn Iulius Caesar-censor, Gn. Equitius Marinus-
> praetor. Are all Christians, are they inclusivist? I hope so.

You need to check your facts. I have not yet been appointed censor nor
am I Christian.

Now a more general series of observations. It occasionally happens in
NR that someone who is Christian, for many reasons, experiences a
crisis of faith, in reconciling their citizenship to their religious
convictions. Sometimes they resolve it, sometimes they don't. The
number of times this happens versus the number of citizens of all
religious faiths who simply vanish or fail to participate after
committing to office is far larger. That is a greater problem than the
occasional Christian feeling compelled to leave us. At least this time
we were given an explanation, as opposed to the usual vanishing act.

If anyone cares to read the provincial report for his province you
would see that our departed governor was a man who had a full plate in
his personal life. I certainly do agree that he could have avoided the
small diatribe about the Religio Romana.

I have a number of Christian friends in NR and they are among the most
committed and supportive of citizens. I have no idea whether they are
inclusive or not. Frankly I couldn't care less. They do their duty in
elected offices diligently and they support the Religio Romana. That is
not necessarily however proof of an inclusive attitude and how they
resolve the demands of their religion against their participation in NR
is their business - not mine, nor I might add anyone else's.

This thread is teetering on the edge of degenerating into the usual
round of finger pointing about Christians, harping on about the
misdeeds of the early church and its persecution of the state cults and
persecution of all non-Christian cults. It will advance us exactly
nowhere, and just heighten the divisions. Let us not take the emotional
and yes I agree offensive comment, of one departed citizen and
extrapolate anything other than the fact that this was an individual
speaking, not the collective expression of all Christians here.

Vale et valete.

SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
wrote:

> Would you please give me a concrete example of exactly how Mr.

Fraser harmed Nova Roma? He stepped forward to become provincial
governor

> when nobody else wanted the job. He continued to serve even when

he

> was having a crisis of faith that he asked the Senate about. When

he could no longer serve in good conscience he resigned.

> How did any of that hurt Nova Roma?>>>

I want to add:

In fact, Aurelius Severus was correct in his attitude as Nova Roma
governor. He served as governor and, at last, when his conscience
didn't let him to continue, he had the necessary decency to resign
and to post his resignation on the NR Announce list and to not
disturb the entire main list.
More than that, at my request - after I received his report to the
Senate, where he expressed his desire to not continue as governor -
he agreed to continue until the end of the year or until someone can
replace him. He paid attention to his replacement and he recommended
a new citizen from Canada Ulterior to take over the job.
Therefore, Aurelius Severus, was correct and as governor he done what
was required to do. I agree that his last message words in connection
with Roman Religion as a false religion were not the best choused in
order to express his feelings, probably for long time blurred in his
mind as a result of his crisis of faith. I can understand his crisis
of faith. I can understand the unwished result in words of that
crisis and I will not use them against him.

VALETE,
IVL SABINVS

Cn. Iulius Caesar M. Hortensiae Maori sal.

A small correction to my correction: I see you actually labelled me as
a candidate for Censor. I am not running for that office.

Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar"
<gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Iulius Caesar M. Hortensiae Maori Quiritibus et omnibus sal.
>
> > Our current censor Ti. Galerius Paulinus, candidates: Popillius
> > Laenas- censor , Gn Iulius Caesar-censor, Gn. Equitius Marinus-
> > praetor. Are all Christians, are they inclusivist? I hope so.
>
> You need to check your facts. I have not yet been appointed censor

nor

> am I Christian.
>

Salvete,

> >>> Â One other point concerning Mr. Fraser: this is why I believe

that Christians should not be placed in positions of authority in
Nova Roma. <<<

> I most respectfully disagree with this. You, as well many here

forget the fact that there are not only exclusivist but also
inclusivist Christians. I myself am most devoted to the Roman
religion but also have a belief in Christ, and I have a similar
inclusivist attitude towards many religions. My philosophy and
religion is Harmonism, as I call it.

> I know there are many other people here and in other places, too,

who both practice Roman religion and believe in Christ. This should
not be a problem of a Roman soul or a Roman mind.

> This is a genuine Roman attitude towards religions, and it's also

our strength: inclusiveness. - This word should be our god creating
the New Roman Republic, as well as it was the key word when the Old
Republic was born.

Well said Lentulus! There is way too much intolerance in NR when it
comes to personal and private religious beliefs. Many
Yahwists/Christians have no problem with NR as their personal
theologies differ radically with those of conventional religions.

In our Declaration of Roman Paganism it clearly states:
"We also affirm that the Roman Pagan Religion is compatible with,
and may be practiced alongside all other forms of religion and
spiritual expression, without diluting or diminishing its basic
ideals and spiritual identity. In the ancient world Roman religion
was practiced alongside Celtic, German, Greek, Egyptian, Persian, and
Oriental faiths, to the enhancement of all. This syncretistic
approach to other religions remains basic to the Roman Pagan
spiritual world view."

Valete

Julia Aquila

Salve Severus,

Tolerance. A word we should all ponder.

Well said,

Vale

Julia Aquila

Salve Marinus,I think you are missing the point here somewhat.No individual here, I feel had a dispute over his personal decision to resign due to his religious belief.He claimed this prevented him in all his efforts to resolve the issue of is faith, with the duties of his office which demanded his recognition of the Culus Deorum, which he was unable to fulfill, thereupon bringing him to the conclusion that he would not comply, but instead to turn in his resignation.

The problem is he chose to insult those who do believe in the Religeo Romana, by calling it a false religion.I respect his decision but refuse to ignore the insults heaped upon those who do not believe Jesus to be their God.

For The Gods!
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:

> From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Christians and their problems with Nova Roma
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 6:23 PM
> Salve Ahenobarbe,
>
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
> writes:
>
> > I do wish to
> > have Nova Roma do amazing things as an organization
> and I do not wish
> > to see people hinder it as Mr. Fraser has done.
>
> Would you please give me a concrete example of exactly how
> Mr. Fraser
> harmed Nova Roma? He stepped forward to become provincial
> governor
> when nobody else wanted the job. He continued to serve
> even when he
> was having a crisis of faith that he asked the Senate
> about. When he
> could no longer serve in good conscience he resigned.
>
> How did any of that hurt Nova Roma?
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

To me the Christian would best serve his master Christ by not
pretending to worship a deity of the ancient Roman religion. A
Theological contradiction. and I do not see where the deities of the
old Roman faith
has had any less contributions to humanity in truth , beauty and
goodness than has
the Christian Gods messages, so to say the Roman religion is a false
religion, this is an
unfounded accusation and originates from a prior high minded biased
theologic position. The Christian
does have a basic idealistic relationship however, with Stoicism and
Judaism , but has no relation what so ever with the founding fathers
of Jupiter, Janus and Mars of ancient Roman religion. So to attempt
to cross these two theologic avenues is not possible.
I have a great deal of respect however for the Christian
follower, but perhaps these two
faiths should not have duel masters. When in Rome do as the Romans
do or
simply dont travel to Rome in the first place , so to speak.
Be it Better that the ages old idealistic
differences between Roman idealism and Christ doctrines not be apart
of Nova Roma all in the same citizen. A difficult path to say the
least.
Thats my view on the topic.

Thanks,


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
<cn.caelius@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.
>
> I know that Mr. Fraser can no longer read this, so I am

speaking to everyone.

>
> >It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies and politicians are
> >becoming more and more anti-Christian
>
> Actually, it seems that the Religio Romana is growing in

strength. If a person holds an anti-Christian viewpoint, that is
their prerogative.

>
> >There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing Christian, will
> >continue to participate in a recreational group that promotes

false

> >religion.
> My question is, "Why did he join Nova Roma at all?"

Christianity is exclusivist. Nova Roma IS A PAGAN ORGANIZATION. It
has a clear and extremely obvious religious mission. Our
Constitution, section VI, subsection A, states, "The Religio Romana,
the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official
religion of Nova Roma." Nova Roma's reason for existence is the
Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic mandates, promotes
the Religio Romana.

> Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the priority it deserved in

the

> past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now.
> I guess I don't understand why this topic keeps coming up.

Have the Christians in Nova Roma who have an issue with this not
read the Constitution, the Declaration, or any of the thousands of
messages on our lists? I was a devout Christian for many years.
During that time, here is no way that I

> could have been a part of Nova Roma; my beliefs would not have

allowed

> it. This is not a "jab at Christians", but a fact of Christian

belief and practice

> itself. If you have a problem with the Religio Romana, I suggest

you leave. Might I suggest that the Christians who wish to promote
their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of their own
based on the very late imperial period when Christianity was
growing. Or join a re-enactment legion that does not have a
religious component. There is obviously room in the world for
multiple groups; there is no need to mix if it is uncomfortable for
either party. But, in any case, please stop wasting our time.

>
> Dii deaeque Romae amo adoroque! I love and worship the gods and

goddesses of Rome!

>
> Optime valete!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
>

Salvete omnes,

I suspect this "Servus veritatis" will be seen rather as a "servus
falsitatis".
As it turns out, John Wycliff is no citizen of Hispania.
Probably his only relationship with the province is that he has been
building castles in Spain ...
I doubt anyone will give much credit to him.

Valete,
L. Livia Plauta

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Complutensis" <complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Salve amice
>
>
>
> Serias tan amable de amonestar a este bellaco. Le tuve en mi Lista en
> Hispania y le tuve que expulsar por agitador y toca pelotas. Además
no es
> ciudadano.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
> Praetor Novae Romae
>
> Senator
> Praetor Hispaniae
> Scriba Censoris K·F·B·M
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] En
nombre
> de john.wycliff
> Enviado el: viernes, 31 de octubre de 2008 19:02
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Listen, Nova Roma...
>
>
>
> ...and learn from your mistakes.
>
> Hispania was a great province in the past. Plenty of citizens, of
> ideas, of activities...
>
> But then he came. At first, he seemed a kind and humble person. He
> gained the confidence of many other citizens, and the provincial Curia
> proposed him as governor to the Senate.
>
> When he became governor, he changed his face and became an ambitious
> and autoritarian man. The hispani were surprised with his personality
> shift, and many left Nova Roma forever.
>
> One term and another the Senate appointed him as governor, despite his
> ambition and the fact that Hispania was loosing all its population. He
> is the feudal lord of this province, that is now his demesne.
>
> But nothing can stop him. He gained another appointment and began to
> climb the Cursus Honorum, and... what about the supreme magistrature?
>
> Beware, novaromani.
>
> Servus Veritatis
>

Salve Ahenobarbe,

Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> writes:

> Please detail for me what concrete things he DID do for Nova Roma
> besides holding an office.

Maintained a provincial mailing list, assisted with the census, and
did what he could do to keep things going as other more senior members
of Nova Roma were unable to be as active as they once had been. You
might note that Canada Cisterior has two senators who have been past
governors, but who can not currently serve as governor due to other
pressures on their lives.

> Did he organize provincial meetings?

Yes.

> Did he write or edit wiki articles?

None that I know of. As far as I know there's no requirement for a
provincial governor to do that.

> Did he promote Nova Roma to those who have never heard of it?

I have no idea. Perhaps you could ask one of the people from Canada
Cisterior.

> You say, "he continued to serve"; please tell us how he actually
> served. I honestly don't know.

That's exactly my point. You don't know what the man has been doing,
but you're very quick to criticize.

[...]

> Then we have even deeper problems in that province.

We do.

> It could be considered a result of inaction on the part of its ex-governor,

No, the problems are not due to him. He took the job because someone
had to. The province was already languishing before he took over.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salvete

"Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:

> Christians think in terms of catechisms, binding written

professions

> of faith. This is typical of their cultus only.

Not all Christians even know what a catechism is, particularly the
Protestant sects. Many Christians beleive in the Christos in their
own way; without theology and dogma. Want to see binding written
professions and affirmations, then look at the Hindu Upahnshads, the
Vedas, the Puranas, Bhagavad Gita, the Vendanta, The Yoga Sutras
etc. As for the Jewish religion, and I , too studied under many
Rabbis, The OT is not their only Sacred book, The Siddur (like a
catechism), the Zohar, the innumerable Midrash, Sepher Yezirah and on
and on... The Buddhist texts are also innumerable, much overlapping
with Hinduism.
We have no way of knowing how one believes unless we ask each person
personally as today many people do not adhere to one conventional way
of believing. It's a big world out there.

"Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

> This thread is teetering on the edge of degenerating into the usual
> round of finger pointing about Christians, harping on about the
> misdeeds of the early church and its persecution of the state cults

and

> persecution of all non-Christian cults. It will advance us exactly
> nowhere, and just heighten the divisions. Let us not take the

emotional

> and yes I agree offensive comment, of one departed citizen and
> extrapolate anything other than the fact that this was an

individual

> speaking, not the collective expression of all Christians here.

I agree.

Why don't we all quit it? It is tiresome. Surely there is something
else we can discuss besides religious disagreements.

Valé, et valéte

L Julia Aquila

Salve Cocceius

Welcome to Nova Roma! Nice to meet you!

Optime Vale!

L. Julia Aquila

Salve Aureliane,

Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...> writes:

> The problem is he chose to insult those who do believe in the
> Religeo Romana, by calling it a false religion.

Yes, that is a problem. Had he not resigned his citizenship I'd have
already sent charges to the praetors because of that.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Salve,
I say thank you for your very concise and succinct interpretation of the issue being debated.I also conclude that much of this rhetoric derives its impetus from a theological contradiction based upon a false premise that the only right conclusion is total inclusion at all costs due to a prior minded, biased, theological position, of the intolerent scapegoating the tolerent, to a form of compliant submission and silence when it comes to their theological position.One I might add just so happens to be the State Religeo.This in turn allowing the intolerant to claim a superiority, through a sence of unwaranted victimization.

I would also like to refute that Judaism or Islam, though monotheistic, were ever a threat to the Religio Romana at anytime in it's entire history, as a theological threat to the State.

Vale,
Ap. Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, segestamilius <rcetmorgan@...> wrote:

> From: segestamilius <rcetmorgan@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Christians and their problems with Nova Roma
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 7:48 PM
> To me the Christian would best serve his master Christ by
> not
> pretending to worship a deity of the ancient Roman
> religion. A
> Theological contradiction. and I do not see where the
> deities of the
> old Roman faith
> has had any less contributions to humanity in truth ,
> beauty and
> goodness than has
> the Christian Gods messages, so to say the Roman religion
> is a false
> religion, this is an
> unfounded accusation and originates from a prior high
> minded biased
> theologic position. The Christian
> does have a basic idealistic relationship however, with
> Stoicism and
> Judaism , but has no relation what so ever with the
> founding fathers
> of Jupiter, Janus and Mars of ancient Roman religion. So to
> attempt
> to cross these two theologic avenues is not possible.
> I have a great deal of respect however for the Christian
> follower, but perhaps these two
> faiths should not have duel masters. When in Rome do as the
> Romans
> do or
> simply dont travel to Rome in the first place , so to
> speak.
> Be it Better that the ages old idealistic
> differences between Roman idealism and Christ doctrines not
> be apart
> of Nova Roma all in the same citizen. A difficult path to
> say the
> least.
> Thats my view on the topic.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius
> Ahenobarbus
> <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.
> >
> > I know that Mr. Fraser can no longer read this, so
> I am
> speaking to everyone.
> >
> > >It has become clear that Nova Roma's policies
> and politicians are
> > >becoming more and more anti-Christian
> >
> > Actually, it seems that the Religio Romana is
> growing in
> strength. If a person holds an anti-Christian viewpoint,
> that is
> their prerogative.
> >
> > >There is no way that I, as a devout and practicing
> Christian, will
> > >continue to participate in a recreational group
> that promotes
> false
> > >religion.
> > My question is, "Why did he join Nova Roma at
> all?"
> Christianity is exclusivist. Nova Roma IS A PAGAN
> ORGANIZATION. It
> has a clear and extremely obvious religious mission. Our
> Constitution, section VI, subsection A, states, "The
> Religio Romana,
> the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the
> official
> religion of Nova Roma." Nova Roma's reason for
> existence is the
> Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic mandates,
> promotes
> the Religio Romana.
> > Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the priority
> it deserved in
> the
> > past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now.
> > I guess I don't understand why this topic
> keeps coming up.
> Have the Christians in Nova Roma who have an issue with
> this not
> read the Constitution, the Declaration, or any of the
> thousands of
> messages on our lists? I was a devout Christian for many
> years.
> During that time, here is no way that I
> > could have been a part of Nova Roma; my beliefs would
> not have
> allowed
> > it. This is not a "jab at Christians", but a
> fact of Christian
> belief and practice
> > itself. If you have a problem with the Religio
> Romana, I suggest
> you leave. Might I suggest that the Christians who wish to
> promote
> their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of
> their own
> based on the very late imperial period when Christianity
> was
> growing. Or join a re-enactment legion that does not have a
>
> religious component. There is obviously room in the world
> for
> multiple groups; there is no need to mix if it is
> uncomfortable for
> either party. But, in any case, please stop wasting our
> time.
> >
> > Dii deaeque Romae amo adoroque! I love and worship the
> gods and
> goddesses of Rome!
> >
> > Optime valete!
> >
> > --
> > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
> Austroccidentalis
> > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T.
> Iulius Sabinus
> > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
> >

-Maior Caesari spd;
sorry mistyped You are running for curule aedile -you are
throwing games in honour of the gods.

Let's get to the meat of the discussion:

I don't care what your personal cultus is : if you run for magistrate
you should personally take the auspices and personally perform all
ceremonies and rituals to the gods.
Period.

If people can't do that - it's their problem. But we wouldn't have
these lingering arguments.

This is what some are avoiding. It's a cultural issue not a religious
one at all. If we're Romans we work for the pax deorum and we take
auspices just like the Romans llah, Yahweh, Jesus or Ahurha Mazda,
you'd behave like all Romans or not be a magistrate.

bene vale in pacem deorum
pax deorum- pax hominem
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> >e edge of degenerating into the usual
> round of finger pointing about Christians, harping on about the
> misdeeds of the early church and its persecution of the state cults

and .

>

>
> This thread is teetering on th

Caesar Maori sal.

Agreed, one's personal cultus is one's own. All that matters is that
all the duties for a magistrate that are prescribed by Nova Roman law
are adhered to. I also agree this is a cultural issue, but it often
rapidly transcends into a series of posturings and arguments over dogma
of all stripes and colours.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> -Maior Caesari spd;
> sorry mistyped You are running for curule aedile -you are
> throwing games in honour of the gods.
>

Salvete,

I must be honest.I am surprised nobody caught my mistake.But I must say that as far as Islam ever having been a threat to the Western Empire of Rome is moot as Islam was not founded by Muhammed until the year 610 AD.

Valete,
Ap. Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...> wrote:

> From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Christians and their problems with Nova Roma
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 8:25 PM
> Salve,
> I say thank you for your very concise and succinct
> interpretation of the issue being debated.I also conclude
> that much of this rhetoric derives its impetus from a
> theological contradiction based upon a false premise that
> the only right conclusion is total inclusion at all costs
> due to a prior minded, biased, theological position, of the
> intolerent scapegoating the tolerent, to a form of compliant
> submission and silence when it comes to their theological
> position.One I might add just so happens to be the State
> Religeo.This in turn allowing the intolerant to claim a
> superiority, through a sence of unwaranted victimization.
>
> I would also like to refute that Judaism or Islam, though
> monotheistic, were ever a threat to the Religio Romana at
> anytime in it's entire history, as a theological threat
> to the State.
>
> Vale,
> Ap. Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
> --- On Fri, 10/31/08, segestamilius
> <rcetmorgan@...> wrote:
>
> > From: segestamilius <rcetmorgan@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Christians and their problems
> with Nova Roma
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 7:48 PM
> > To me the Christian would best serve his master Christ
> by
> > not
> > pretending to worship a deity of the ancient Roman
> > religion. A
> > Theological contradiction. and I do not see where the
> > deities of the
> > old Roman faith
> > has had any less contributions to humanity in truth ,
> > beauty and
> > goodness than has
> > the Christian Gods messages, so to say the Roman
> religion
> > is a false
> > religion, this is an
> > unfounded accusation and originates from a prior high
> > minded biased
> > theologic position. The Christian
> > does have a basic idealistic relationship however,
> with
> > Stoicism and
> > Judaism , but has no relation what so ever with the
> > founding fathers
> > of Jupiter, Janus and Mars of ancient Roman religion.
> So to
> > attempt
> > to cross these two theologic avenues is not possible.
> > I have a great deal of respect however for the
> Christian
> > follower, but perhaps these two
> > faiths should not have duel masters. When in Rome do
> as the
> > Romans
> > do or
> > simply dont travel to Rome in the first place , so to
> > speak.
> > Be it Better that the ages old idealistic
> > differences between Roman idealism and Christ
> doctrines not
> > be apart
> > of Nova Roma all in the same citizen. A difficult path
> to
> > say the
> > least.
> > Thats my view on the topic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius
> > Ahenobarbus
> > <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.
> > >
> > > I know that Mr. Fraser can no longer read
> this, so
> > I am
> > speaking to everyone.
> > >
> > > >It has become clear that Nova Roma's
> policies
> > and politicians are
> > > >becoming more and more anti-Christian
> > >
> > > Actually, it seems that the Religio Romana is
> > growing in
> > strength. If a person holds an anti-Christian
> viewpoint,
> > that is
> > their prerogative.
> > >
> > > >There is no way that I, as a devout and
> practicing
> > Christian, will
> > > >continue to participate in a recreational
> group
> > that promotes
> > false
> > > >religion.
> > > My question is, "Why did he join Nova
> Roma at
> > all?"
> > Christianity is exclusivist. Nova Roma IS A PAGAN
> > ORGANIZATION. It
> > has a clear and extremely obvious religious mission.
> Our
> > Constitution, section VI, subsection A, states,
> "The
> > Religio Romana,
> > the worship of the Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall
> be the
> > official
> > religion of Nova Roma." Nova Roma's reason
> for
> > existence is the
> > Religio Romana. Nova Roma, as one of its basic
> mandates,
> > promotes
> > the Religio Romana.
> > > Unfortunately, that hasn't been given the
> priority
> > it deserved in
> > the
> > > past; I think, hopefully, that is changing now.
> > > I guess I don't understand why this topic
> > keeps coming up.
> > Have the Christians in Nova Roma who have an issue
> with
> > this not
> > read the Constitution, the Declaration, or any of the
> > thousands of
> > messages on our lists? I was a devout Christian for
> many
> > years.
> > During that time, here is no way that I
> > > could have been a part of Nova Roma; my beliefs
> would
> > not have
> > allowed
> > > it. This is not a "jab at Christians",
> but a
> > fact of Christian
> > belief and practice
> > > itself. If you have a problem with the Religio
> > Romana, I suggest
> > you leave. Might I suggest that the Christians who
> wish to
> > promote
> > their religion within a Roman milieu create a group of
> > their own
> > based on the very late imperial period when
> Christianity
> > was
> > growing. Or join a re-enactment legion that does not
> have a
> >
> > religious component. There is obviously room in the
> world
> > for
> > multiple groups; there is no need to mix if it is
> > uncomfortable for
> > either party. But, in any case, please stop wasting
> our
> > time.
> > >
> > > Dii deaeque Romae amo adoroque! I love and
> worship the
> > gods and
> > goddesses of Rome!
> > >
> > > Optime valete!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> > > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
> > Austroccidentalis
> > > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et
> T.
> > Iulius Sabinus
> > > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
> > >