Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Nov 4-10, 2008

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58822 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58823 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US ELECTION TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58824 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58825 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OT US ELECTION TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58826 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58827 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC(OT)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58828 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58829 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: For Those Unable to Grasp It...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58830 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58831 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: OT: Re: [Nova-Roma] US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58832 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58833 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58834 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Temple of Artemis in Ephesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58835 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58836 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58837 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 5, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58838 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58839 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58840 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58841 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58844 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58845 From: Ass.Pomerium Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: l'osservatorio archeologico Pharus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58847 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58848 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: l'osservatorio archeologico Pharus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58849 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58850 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58851 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Your citizen photo, 11/5/2008, 12:00 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58852 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: RR & NR
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58853 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: NONAE NOVEMBRIS: Faunalia Rustica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58854 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58855 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58856 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58857 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58858 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58859 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 6, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58860 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58861 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: a. d. VIII Eidus Novembris:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58862 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58863 From: TITVS ANNAEVS REGVLVS Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58864 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58865 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58866 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58867 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58868 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT OF LUDI PLEBEII 2761 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58869 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: LUDI PLEBEII 2761 AUC: Errata Corrige
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58870 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58874 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58875 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: NR budget. facts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58876 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58877 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58878 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: NR budget. facts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58879 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58880 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58881 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58882 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-06
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58883 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58884 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: a. d. VII Eidus Novembris: Final Defeat of the Senones
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58885 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 7, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58886 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58887 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: The COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58888 From: sixthcenturykatafractos Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58889 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: The COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58890 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58891 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Reuters: 3D Rome in the Maxentius Era
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58892 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58893 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Eleições em Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58894 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58895 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58896 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58897 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58898 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58899 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58900 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58901 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58903 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58904 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58905 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58906 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Request to diribitors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58907 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58908 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58909 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58910 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58911 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58912 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58913 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58914 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Five vs Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58915 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58916 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 8, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58917 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58918 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Reuters: 3D Rome in the Maxentius Era
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58919 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58920 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58921 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58922 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble Changes in the number
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58923 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: a. d. VI Eidus Novembris: Mundus patet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58924 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: COMITIA CENTURIATA schedule change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58925 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA Schedule change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58926 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Councils ban use of Latin terms
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58927 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58928 From: Lyn Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Councils ban use of Latin terms
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58929 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Fwd: Lazio celebrates Etruscan culture
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58930 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58931 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58932 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Councils ban use of Latin terms
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58933 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58934 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58935 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Explanation about repealing the lex Arminia de cursu honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58936 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Explanation about repealing the lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58937 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58938 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Notae Quintus Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58939 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Notae Quintus Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58940 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58941 From: segestamilius Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58942 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58943 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58944 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58946 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58947 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: More one citizen...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58948 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58949 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 9, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58950 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Theodosius I
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58951 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magistrate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58952 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: a. d. V Eidus Novembris: Dea Helena; Origin of the Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58953 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58954 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58955 From: Cocceius Spinula Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: More one citizen...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58956 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58957 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58958 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58959 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58960 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58961 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58962 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Simple Roman calendar by e-mail, 11/10/2008, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58964 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magist
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58965 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58966 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58967 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Vote no on the laws: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assembl
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58968 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: JOB: Latin @ UMich
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58969 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-09
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 10, 2008.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58970 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58971 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58972 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes & lex Moravia Iulia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58973 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58974 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: When no censors are in office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58975 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: a. d. IV Eidus Novembris: The Samnite War
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58976 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Vote no on the laws: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assembl
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58977 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58978 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58979 From: rhatsumi Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58980 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58981 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58982 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58983 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Censores et Notae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58984 From: rhatsumi Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58985 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Censores et Notae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58986 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Video of Ritual in Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, 9 November 2008
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58987 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUVTA-VOTACIÓN PARA PEBISCITOS, CONTIO PARA ELEGI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58988 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58989 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58990 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58991 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58992 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58993 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58994 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58995 From: Chantal Gaudiano Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58997 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58998 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58999 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59000 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59001 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59002 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59003 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59004 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59005 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59006 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59007 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-11-10
Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58822 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
Salvete omnes,

A day or two ago a post came up regarding interpretation of humor and
how difficult this is on the net. I also want to mention that quite
often humor and figures of speech can easily be misinterpreted on
many forums throughout Yahoo, MSN etc. When possible in discussion I
enjoy using figures of speech, a little sarcasm and witticisms. I
confess that on a great political forum outside NR I had an account
with lots of points suspended for two violations:

1)Someone asked did anyone notice any changes in culture X over the
last century or so. I replied yes, that at one stage they were
rounded up and went to their fate like lambs at the slaughter but now
they are hard as nails and fight back meaner than junk yard dogs
(from Leroy Brown song) when threatened. It was interpreted by a
tattle- tail and moderator that I called thee people dogs and that
was that. My metaphor was a complement.

2)On Middle Eastern affairs a red neck sort of fellow wrote in who
was openly a KKK supporter, saying how come is it those primitive
Arabs and sand n words wrap themselves up in them sheets and rags.
Knowing what outfits the KKK have I wrote back and said perhaps they
are KKK wannabees with their dress. That was the straw that broke the
camel's back with the moderators since they felt I said Arabs were
Klansmen.


Anyway I checked things out and found that some of the moderation and
management is done out of India and other countries where the people
managing the list have English as a second language.
Also certain key words can sometimes trigger off an emotional
response and the reader gets his shirt all in a knot and jumps to
conclusions with assessing the missive carefully. I have to be
careful in the Spanish language myself. I am told I am fluent and
very good but I too will often miss plats on words, satire, figures
of speech etc at higher levels. This is something to consider on
international forums.

Vale bene,

QSP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58823 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US ELECTION TODAY
Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.

>Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
president, so I won't be voting.

    Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.

Optime vale!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58824 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.

Moderator's notice:

Please all remember that the current elections in the United States of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of Nova Roma.


CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus


--- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha scritto:
Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36

Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.

>Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be president, so I won't be voting.

    Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.

Optime vale!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com





Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58825 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OT US ELECTION TODAY
Salve,

No, there aren't any decent choices available for this election. And I cna't think of anyone to write in. BTW, I would most probably never vote for a republican or democrat.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella
Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
http://novabritannia.org
http://myspace.com/novabritannia
http://ciarin.com/governor


Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus wrote:
Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.

>Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be president, so I won't be voting.

    Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.

Optime vale!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58826 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Salve Cornelius Lentulus

"Moderator's notice:

Please all remember that the current elections in the United States of
America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of Nova
Roma."

How so? As far as I remember if one puts (OT) in the subject line then
people can choose
to respond or not.


Vale

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus


>From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...>
>Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Nova-Roma] US Elections are OFF TOPIC
>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:49:15 +0000 (GMT)
>
>CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS�� SAL.
>
>Moderator's notice:
>
>Please all remember that the current elections in the United States of
>America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of Nova
>Roma.
>
>
>CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
>
>Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
>Q U A E S T O R
>P O N T I F E X
>SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
>------------------------------------------
>Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
>Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
>Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
>Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
>Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
>Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
>Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
>Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
>-------------------------------------------
>Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
>Dominus Factionis Russatae
>Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
>--- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha
>scritto:
>Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
>Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
>A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Data: Marted�� 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
>
> >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
>president, so I won't be voting.
>
>������ Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind having
>for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there were 5
>people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the person you
>want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that
>"there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish and has
>come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.
>
>Optime vale!
>
> --
>Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
>Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
>Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
>http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo corso di
>fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
>http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58827 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC(OT)
Salve Censor Tiberi,

It was only my intention to wish all you voters the best and hope you
have the blessings of the gods this day! I'll refrain from any more
comments until this is figured out.

Vale bene,

QSP




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Cornelius Lentulus
>
> "Moderator's notice:
>
> Please all remember that the current elections in the United States
of
> America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of
Nova
> Roma."
>
> How so? As far as I remember if one puts (OT) in the subject line
then
> people can choose
> to respond or not.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
> >From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...>
> >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Nova-Roma] US Elections are OFF TOPIC
> >Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 15:49:15 +0000 (GMT)
> >
> >CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
> >
> >Moderator's notice:
> >
> >Please all remember that the current elections in the United
States of
> >America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum
of Nova
> >Roma.
> >
> >
> >CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
> >
> >Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> >Q U A E S T O R
> >P O N T I F E X
> >SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
> >------------------------------------------
> >Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
> >Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> >Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
> >Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
> >Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
> >Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
> >Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> >Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> >-------------------------------------------
> >Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> >Dominus Factionis Russatae
> >Latinista, Classicus Philologus
> >
> >--- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha
> >scritto:
> >Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
> >Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
> >A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
> >
> > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
> >president, so I won't be voting.
> >
> >    Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't
mind having
> >for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there
were 5
> >people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the
person you
> >want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of
thinking that
> >"there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish
and has
> >come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.
> >
> >Optime vale!
> >
> > --
> >Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> >Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
> >Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
> >http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
corso di
> >fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
> >http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58828 From: ames0826@cs.com Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
We'll talk about what we like. Thank you.

"Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
>
>Moderator's notice:
>
>Please all remember that the current elections in the United States of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of Nova Roma.
>
>
>CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
>
>Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
>Q U A E S T O R
>P O N T I F E X
>SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
>------------------------------------------
>Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
>Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
>Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
>Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
>Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
>Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
>Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
>Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
>-------------------------------------------
>Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
>Dominus Factionis Russatae
>Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
>--- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha scritto:
>Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
>Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
>A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
>
>>Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
>president, so I won't be voting.
>
>    Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political system in the U.S.
>
>Optime vale!
>
> --
>Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
>Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
>Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
>http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
>http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58829 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: For Those Unable to Grasp It...
Nova Roma is not a dictatorship. I never said it was. Before anyone
else shoots an email at me, please actually read my words.

ualete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58830 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
Salve Senator !


>Anyway I checked things out and found that some of the moderation and
>management is done out of India and other countries where the people
>managing the list have English as a second language (..)
>in the Spanish language myself. I am told I am fluent and
>very good but I too will often miss plats on words, satire, figures
>of speech etc at higher levels. This is something to consider on
>international forums.

You are right, and I have taken the opportunity of your message to
add 2 sestertii, from your own both examples, to let you see how they
can be read by a citizen who is not living in the same
(macronational) language environment (France), and has an average
knowledge of English.

You will see that this way is about 2 kinds of problems: mixed
vocabulary and cultural references, and before being able to
appreciate (or not ;-) ) the wit.

>1)Someone asked did anyone notice any changes in culture X over the
>last century or so. I replied yes, that at one stage they were
>rounded up and went to their fate like lambs at the slaughter but now
>they are hard as nails and fight back meaner than junk yard dogs
>(from Leroy Brown song) when threatened. It was interpreted by a
>tattle-tail and moderator that I called thee people dogs and that
>was that. My metaphor was a complement.

I need first to check "rounded up", for I knew its arithmetical
sense, not this one. Second, I was not sure understanding "hard as
nails" : is this a primary meaning, or a colloquial one..?

If it is a litteral meaning, as we do not say like this here, it has
not a special sound for me. My dictionary does not give me further
infos, and I am not sure not missing smthg. Third, the "junk yard
dogs": dog ok, yard ok.., and 'junk' is, apparently, about 'waste',
but my dictionary (however one of the best which is available, yes,
yes... ;-) ) do not give me the whole expression.

Here I wonder if dogs in a junk yard are different of dogs in a
street among garbage cans, etc.. Fourth, I have blurred memories on
Leroy Brown, who must be some U.S. (?) folk (?) singer in the 60-70's
(?). But, naturally, I don't know his opus, specially his lyrics. At
this time, I am yet exhausted ;-), and I have to face the "tattle-
tail": I get the "tattle", but have no "tattle-tail", so another
metaphysical question : does the tail add smthg to the tattleing?

But I am at the end of the paragraph and still alive, and happy
understanding the question at stake... but in fact, I got
concentrated so much on the upper details that I have forgotten the
line of the story, so I have to re-read the paragraph from the
beginning to understand that the mentioned moderator had not the same
sense of ellipse than yours.


Let us see the 2nd paragraph :

>2)On Middle Eastern affairs a red neck sort of fellow wrote in who
>was openly a KKK supporter, saying how come is it those primitive
>Arabs and sand n words wrap themselves up in them sheets and rags.
>Knowing what outfits the KKK have I wrote back and said perhaps they
>are KKK wannabees with their dress. That was the straw that broke the
>camel's back with the moderators since they felt I said Arabs were
>Klansmen.

First difficulty with "red neck": I have suppositions, but I am not
sure any is good, and smthg my cartesian spirit tells me: why a red
neck is less valuable than a not-red one? I understand that it has a
pejorative meaning, however.

Second, the "sand n words". I suppose that "n" is for "and" (?),
understand both separate words, but the expression remains a mystery
for me. So I am brought to read the sentence as if you had not
included this expression.

Third, the "wannabees", which I do not remember in English. I suppose
that it is an Americanism for "want-to-be". But then ? Nothing in my
paper dictionary, and a Google search leads me to an online version
of the Merriam-Webster dict. which gives me 2 close, but different
meanings: either a kind of "tiro", or a failure, with, maybe, the
addition of the "bee" insect image. There, I cannot really choose btw
both meanings. Last test, the story about the straw and the camel,
which I finally win (funny image, this said, specially in this
context...).

At this last time, I think getting everything except the "sand n
words", but have yet to understand what you mean with the image of
3K "wannabees with their dress", and if the moderators have over-
reacted or not.

After a few vitamins and a bunch of seconds, I tell myself that this
has really been an awful misunderstanding, because your image was
indeed a killing one in a private bilateral discussion, but, in Php
multi-members forum where people often read just the answers and not
the whole discussion, I may imagine the reaction of an overworked
moderator, specially if (s-)he lives in an Arab country or is Muslim.


This is indeed why international fora are often frustrating, but also
comfortable at the same time, when/if people manage to build and live
with reasonable common moderation rules. But sure, we loose a big
amount of our communication abilities, and specially when we do not
write in our language.

This is why international meetings, such as our conventus (plural),
are irreplacable, for you meet there people, see and hear them and,
even if you do not understand all their words, you can get their
humor (or absence of). :-)


Vale Pauline !



P. Memmius Albucius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
(Michael Kelly)" <mjk@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> A day or two ago a post came up regarding interpretation of humor
and
> how difficult this is on the net. I also want to mention that quite
> often humor and figures of speech can easily be misinterpreted on
> many forums throughout Yahoo, MSN etc. When possible in discussion
I
> enjoy using figures of speech, a little sarcasm and witticisms. I
> confess that on a great political forum outside NR I had an account
> with lots of points suspended for two violations:
>
> 1)Someone asked did anyone notice any changes in culture X over the
> last century or so. I replied yes, that at one stage they were
> rounded up and went to their fate like lambs at the slaughter but
now
> they are hard as nails and fight back meaner than junk yard dogs
> (from Leroy Brown song) when threatened. It was interpreted by a
> tattle- tail and moderator that I called thee people dogs and that
> was that. My metaphor was a complement.
>
> 2)On Middle Eastern affairs a red neck sort of fellow wrote in who
> was openly a KKK supporter, saying how come is it those primitive
> Arabs and sand n words wrap themselves up in them sheets and rags.
> Knowing what outfits the KKK have I wrote back and said perhaps
they
> are KKK wannabees with their dress. That was the straw that broke
the
> camel's back with the moderators since they felt I said Arabs were
> Klansmen.
>
>
> Anyway I checked things out and found that some of the moderation
and
> management is done out of India and other countries where the
people
> managing the list have English as a second language.
> Also certain key words can sometimes trigger off an emotional
> response and the reader gets his shirt all in a knot and jumps to
> conclusions with assessing the missive carefully. I have to be
> careful in the Spanish language myself. I am told I am fluent and
> very good but I too will often miss plats on words, satire, figures
> of speech etc at higher levels. This is something to consider on
> international forums.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> QSP
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58831 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: OT: Re: [Nova-Roma] US Elections are OFF TOPIC
Salvete --

Personally, I think the matter of political machinations in sister/brother/parent countries is of great import to Nova Roma. Political changes in any country can have an impact to our citizenry around the globe, and potentially a direct impact on Nova Roma's future. Certainly, the political atmosphere in neighboring territories during the time of Ancient Rome was very important. Should it be of less import for Nova Roma?

Valete,
- Q.OS

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:

CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.

Moderator's notice:

Please all remember that the current elections in the United States of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of Nova Roma.


CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
P O N T I F E X

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58832 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: Misunderstandings wirh language in cyberspace
---> Salve P. Memmi Albuci~!
>
Thank you for your time effort and insight into my post. Now I'll
explain the two in simple terms what I was saying

>
>>
Rounded up means to be gathered from all over and put in one place,
in the case of these people, prisons and camps.Hard as nails means
you are very strong and tough. A junk yard is where they put scap
cars, trucks and other big things that can be sold for their parts.
For security they put in mean and vicious guard dogs to make sure no
thieves will want to enter - hence junk yard dog.
The song, Leroy Brown is about a tough street fighter and gambler who
eventually tries to take another man's wife in a bar but gets killed:

Chorus: And its bad, bad leroy brown
The baddest man in the whole damn town
Badder than old king kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog

Details from the 70's song:

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jim+croce/bad+bad+leroy+brown_20071475.ht
ml

I was saying the cuture suffered and were bullied and killed in the
past but now they became extremely tough and will attack and destroy
any enemy that threatens them now.

Let us see the 2nd paragraph :
>
A redneck is slang for a poor, white, rural Southerner, often, one
regarded as ignorant, bigoted, violent, etc. The term has abroader
meaning today. In Canada if someone talks about our country should be
white only and immigration from other cultures should be stopped,
Asians deported etc, we call them rednecks.

The n words is the world famous word that comes from negro which I
will not put on the ML. Bigoted people (rednecks) class the Arabs as
the same execept they wear robes and leave in the desert where there
is lots of sand.

Wannabee is correct as you see it. Just bad spelling and slang which
is popular. You might here people say, Michael Kelly who calls himself
Quintus Suetonius Paulinus belongs a Roman group called Nova Roma. He
has to be a Roman wanabee!>
> >
>
So in this second paragraph I was mocking the bigot who was pro Ku
Klux Klan since he was laughing about the Arabs saying they wore
sheets (rude word for robes)when the Klan themselves where white
sheets and hoods. I said in a sarcastic way, they are just copying
the Klan dress fashion.

Your analyses is correct and well done! I agree with your conclusion
on this. It is something we all must keep in mind and consider in our
communications.

Vale bene,

QSP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58833 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Salvete Omnes:

Senator Obama is reported to have a considerable lead, capturing large
states, to wit New York, Penn, my Michigan neighbours.......and Ohio
don't ya know.

Now I am not sheltered from the fact that the media is largely dem,
which brings me to my next question:

Does any one know of a site where I could log on to see 'all' of the
votes so far...Dem and GOP?

Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to his
credit.


Vale
Pompeia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58834 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Temple of Artemis in Ephesus
Salvete omnes;
this is pretty amazing. The Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, one of the
7 wonders of the world will be rebuilt. Our Hellenic cousins posted
this. Destroyed by christians ,rebuilt, I'm sure, for tourism, used
by pagans.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=118819
optime vale
M. Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58835 From: David Kling (Modianus) Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
"Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to his credit."

And for the first time in eight years I'm proud to be an American again (i.e., citizen of the USA).  That "kid" is also a US citizen, and one that I proudly voted for! :)

Modianus

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM, pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:

Salvete Omnes:

Senator Obama is reported to have a considerable lead, capturing large
states, to wit New York, Penn, my Michigan neighbours.......and Ohio
don't ya know.

Now I am not sheltered from the fact that the media is largely dem,
which brings me to my next question:

Does any one know of a site where I could log on to see 'all' of the
votes so far...Dem and GOP?

Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to his
credit.

Vale
Pompeia




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58836 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
<tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> "Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to
>his credit."
>
> And for the first time in eight years I'm proud to be an American >again
> (i.e., citizen of the USA). That "kid" is also a US citizen, and
>one that I proudly voted for! :)

If that kid were from Kenya, he wouldn't have been on the ballot, as
one has to be born in the US to run for president. It's sad that your
pride stems from whoever the temporary occupant of the White House is
or not. That should make no difference.

Palladius





>
> Modianus
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM, pompeia_minucia_tiberia <
> pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:
>
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > Senator Obama is reported to have a considerable lead, capturing large
> > states, to wit New York, Penn, my Michigan neighbours.......and Ohio
> > don't ya know.
> >
> > Now I am not sheltered from the fact that the media is largely dem,
> > which brings me to my next question:
> >
> > Does any one know of a site where I could log on to see 'all' of the
> > votes so far...Dem and GOP?
> >
> > Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to his
> > credit.
> >
> > Vale
> > Pompeia
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58837 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-04
Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 5, 2008.
C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
 
Today in Rome :
 
(Julian day : 2 454 776).
 
Nonis Novembribus
MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
 
Day of the week : Mercurii dies (Wednesday).
 
Lunaris dies: IX.
Nundinal letter : E.
 
Hora ortus Solis : 06:46.
Hora occasus Solis : 16:59.
Temp. Min. : 10° C.
Temp. Max. : 20° C.
Wind on Rome : 22 Km/h.
Humidity: 66%
Weather : More sun than clouds. Mild.
 
Horae diei :
 
I: 06:46 - 07:38 Saturni hora.
II: 07:38 - 08:30 Iovis hora.
III: 08:30 - 09:23 Martis hora.
IV: 09:23 - 10:15 Solis hora.
V: 10:15 - 11:07 Veneris hora.
VI: 11:07 - 12:00 Mercurii hora.
VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Lunae hora.
VIII: 12:49 - 13:39 Saturni hora.
IX: 13:39 - 14:29 Iovis hora.
X: 14:29 - 15:19 Martis hora.
XI: 15:19 - 16:09 Solis hora.
XII: 16:09 - 16:59 Veneris hora.
 
Horae noctis :
 
I: 16:59 - 18:09 Mercurii hora.
II: 18:09 - 19:19 Lunae hora.
III: 19:19 - 20:29 Saturni hora.
IV: 20:29 - 21:39 Iovis hora.
V: 21:39 - 22:49 Martis hora.
VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Solis hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:08 Veneris hora.
VIII: 01:08 - 02:16 Mercurii hora.
IX: 02:16 - 03:24 Lunae hora.
X: 03:24 - 04:32 Saturni hora.
XI: 04:32 - 05:40 Iovis hora.
XII: 05:40 - 06:48 Martis hora.
 
"Sed nos immensum spatiis confecimus aequor;
Et iam tempus equum fumantia solvere colla."
(Vergil. Geo., II, 341-342).
 
Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58838 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
---Salvete Palladius, Modianus Senatores et Omnes:

Palladius Senator, you raise an interesting point, which I just
discussed privately with another citizen, and one which I in
ignorance overlooked as a Canukian: I didn't realize that the place
of birth was still an issue nowadays for a U.S. presidential
candidate. I knew it was a key item at one point, because back when
Kissinger was Secretary of State (I know I am dating myself, but I
was just a kid, honest :>)...some considered him to be a potential
presidential candidate (I admire him but I wouldn't consider him for
U.S. president ) but the excluding factor for Kissinger then was
that he was not a natural American.

The American constitution, being the highest voice of the people in
the U.S., is naturally very key to Americans, and I can see where
they would be unhappy if it's passages were overlooked (I struggle
with the same issues in NR).

My bottom line question to you, and to any who could answer it, is :
what legislative or evaluation body is responsible in the U.S. for
ensuring that all criteria for candidacy has been satisfied in this
regard? If they have screwed up...how and why?

Valete
Pompeia


In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "David Kling (Modianus)"
> <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > "Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much to
> >his credit."
> >
> > And for the first time in eight years I'm proud to be an American
>again
> > (i.e., citizen of the USA). That "kid" is also a US citizen, and
> >one that I proudly voted for! :)
>
> If that kid were from Kenya, he wouldn't have been on the ballot, as
> one has to be born in the US to run for president. It's sad that
your
> pride stems from whoever the temporary occupant of the White House
is
> or not. That should make no difference.
>
> Palladius
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:12 PM, pompeia_minucia_tiberia <
> > pompeia_minucia_tiberia@> wrote:
> >
> > > Salvete Omnes:
> > >
> > > Senator Obama is reported to have a considerable lead,
capturing large
> > > states, to wit New York, Penn, my Michigan neighbours.......and
Ohio
> > > don't ya know.
> > >
> > > Now I am not sheltered from the fact that the media is largely
dem,
> > > which brings me to my next question:
> > >
> > > Does any one know of a site where I could log on to see 'all'
of the
> > > votes so far...Dem and GOP?
> > >
> > > Win or lose, the kid from Kenya's come a long way...very much
to his
> > > credit.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Pompeia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58839 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
---Salvete Omnes:

I didn't mean to trouble my American friends with my remark 'the kid
from Kenya' I was unaware that this was a constitutional dilemna.

338 Dem vs 139 GOP/Republican.
270 required to win. Final tally.

Some may have voted for the man; some for the party; some out of angst
with the Bush administration. Elections are always like that. I
think this is a generous landslide victory. I expected a closer
decision, personally.

For those who have misgivings ...give Obama a chance. You've changed
Presidents and a Political Party. This has happened before,
hey...since 1776. The American legislative system is neatly
arranged, so far as I can see, so that the president has some
executive powers, but yet he can't be an emperor.

Obama may well identify problems and propose solutions better than we
think...not necessarily on the basis of formal legislative experience
(although he was elected Senator) but perhaps on the basis of
having 'been there' and so being able to identify with the common
people. And in the states, isn't that what it's all about ...'we the
people'?

God Bless America

Pompeia



>
>
> Vale
> Pompeia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58840 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Salvete;
in the U.S. in the bad old days of segregation and up till the
1960's black men used to be called 'boy.' To use the term 'kid' for
a black grad of Harvard Law and a Senator...well I don't think I
need to connect the dots.

As a social liberal I'm happy and proud, as an economic conservative
I'm horrified, so I up and officially joined the Libertarian party;-)
Maior
>
> ---Salvete Omnes:
>
> I didn't mean to trouble my American friends with my remark 'the
kid
> from Kenya' I was unaware that this was a constitutional dilemna.
>
> 338 Dem vs 139 GOP/Republican.
> 270 required to win. Final tally.
>
> Some may have voted for the man; some for the party; some out of
angst
> with the Bush administration. Elections are always like that. I
> think this is a generous landslide victory. I expected a closer
> decision, personally.
>
> For those who have misgivings ...give Obama a chance. You've
changed
> Presidents and a Political Party. This has happened before,
> hey...since 1776. The American legislative system is neatly
> arranged, so far as I can see, so that the president has some
> executive powers, but yet he can't be an emperor.
>
> Obama may well identify problems and propose solutions better than
we
> think...not necessarily on the basis of formal legislative
experience
> (although he was elected Senator) but perhaps on the basis of
> having 'been there' and so being able to identify with the common
> people. And in the states, isn't that what it's all about ...'we
the
> people'?
>
> God Bless America
>
> Pompeia
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Vale
> > Pompeia
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58841 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
Maior:

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> in the U.S. in the bad old days of segregation and up till the
> 1960's black men used to be called 'boy.' To use the term 'kid' for
> a black grad of Harvard Law and a Senator...well I don't think I
> need to connect the dots.

Pompeia: You, being an American would know more about 1960's
American social moors better than I, admittedly. Remember, I am
Canadian. And, I am pleased that you are not attempting to connect
any dots in this matter for two reasons:

Number one: there are no dots to connect, and...

Number two: you seem to be woefully incapable of connecting the
simplest arrangement of dots as of late, regarding any matter.

You can be thankful that you have more articulate and more
cognitively endowed protectors (patrons?) who will speak on the ML in
defence of even the most senseless of your posts, when it is deemed
necessary, for this reason or that...likely more for *their* reasons
than *yours*, which is what I find additionally disturbing for your
sake, .... a state of affairs you seem completely oblivious to.

I am quite sure the American citizens, other than yourself, will take
my Canadian-perspective remarks tonight as are intended, in good
faith.

And I recognize and herein applaud, if you have any doubt, the
academic accomplishments of President Obama as a Harvard Graduate.

Why wouldn't I? I'm proud of my own, although they are less than his.


It is a genuine curiosity however, how you, Maior, ever managed to be
awarded the same degree of academic excellence from such an
illustrious university. Academically endowed as you are, we can only
be fortunate that you are not president of the United States of
America. I think many, if not most, would atleast agree on that.

Pompeia


>
> As a social liberal I'm happy and proud, as an economic
conservative
> I'm horrified, so I up and officially joined the Libertarian party;-
)





> Maior
> >
> > ---Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > I didn't mean to trouble my American friends with my remark 'the
> kid
> > from Kenya' I was unaware that this was a constitutional dilemna.
> >
> > 338 Dem vs 139 GOP/Republican.
> > 270 required to win. Final tally.
> >
> > Some may have voted for the man; some for the party; some out of
> angst
> > with the Bush administration. Elections are always like that. I
> > think this is a generous landslide victory. I expected a closer
> > decision, personally.
> >
> > For those who have misgivings ...give Obama a chance. You've
> changed
> > Presidents and a Political Party. This has happened before,
> > hey...since 1776. The American legislative system is neatly
> > arranged, so far as I can see, so that the president has some
> > executive powers, but yet he can't be an emperor.
> >
> > Obama may well identify problems and propose solutions better
than
> we
> > think...not necessarily on the basis of formal legislative
> experience
> > (although he was elected Senator) but perhaps on the basis of
> > having 'been there' and so being able to identify with the common
> > people. And in the states, isn't that what it's all about ...'we
> the
> > people'?
> >
> > God Bless America
> >
> > Pompeia
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Pompeia
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58844 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against gentiles
and viceversa, then us politics....the same old story here in NR.
Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer to stay
away from this list and NR politics in general.

valete optime
M IVL PERVSIANVS
PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face to
face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
>
> Moderator's notice:
>
> Please all remember that the current elections in the United States
of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of
Nova Roma.
>
>
> CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
>
> Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
> Q U A E S T O R
> P O N T I F E X
> SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
> ------------------------------------------
> Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
> Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
> Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
> Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
> Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
> Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
> Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
> Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
> -------------------------------------------
> Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
> Dominus Factionis Russatae
> Latinista, Classicus Philologus
>
> --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
>
> >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
> president, so I won't be voting.
>
>     Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind
having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there
were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If
the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the
trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete
and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political
system in the U.S.
>
> Optime vale!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
> http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
> http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58845 From: Ass.Pomerium Date: 2008-11-05
Subject: l'osservatorio archeologico Pharus
Attachments :

     

    Associazione Pomerium

    a tre mesi dal lancio del nostro osservatorio archeologico Pharus, abbiamo raccolto già molte segnalazioni di emergenze sparse per l'Italia.
    Le trovate sul sito www.progettopharus.org .

    Vi invitiamo a collaborare con noi commentando e/o segnalandoci qualsiasi situazione di incuria o degrado riguardante i nostri monumenti più antichi e/o le zone archeologiche (potete anche voi scrivere un articolo registrandovi sul sito).

     

    Vi aspettiamo numerosi.


     

    Per informazioni:
    Associazione Pomerium
    c/o Tanzilli - Via A.Grandidier, 13 00134 Roma

    info@pomerium.org - amministrazione@pomerium.org - http://www.pomerium.org

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58847 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
    ---

    Perusiane:

    Would you mind showing me the posts where Christian citizens are
    making any 'claims' against 'gentiles'?

    If there are specific main list issues you are referring to, I'd like
    to know about them.
    Is there something you would like to share which I am unaware of?

    Just wondering,

    Vale

    Pompeia
    Scriba Marco Iulio Perusiano
    Curule Aedilis
    2757 A.U.C.


    In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
    <peraznanie@...> wrote:
    >
    > well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against
    gentiles
    > and viceversa, then us politics....the same old story here in NR.
    > Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer to
    stay
    > away from this list and NR politics in general.
    >
    > valete optime
    > M IVL PERVSIANVS
    > PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face to
    > face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    > <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > >
    > > CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
    > >
    > > Moderator's notice:
    > >
    > > Please all remember that the current elections in the United
    States
    > of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum
    of
    > Nova Roma.
    > >
    > >
    > > CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
    > >
    > > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
    > > Q U A E S T O R
    > > P O N T I F E X
    > > SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
    > > ------------------------------------------
    > > Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
    > > Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
    > > Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
    > > Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
    > > Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
    > > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
    > > -------------------------------------------
    > > Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
    > > Dominus Factionis Russatae
    > > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
    > >
    > > --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@> ha
    scritto:
    > > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@>
    > > Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
    > > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > > Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
    > >
    > > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
    > > president, so I won't be voting.
    > >
    > >     Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't
    mind
    > having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona,
    there
    > were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If
    > the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the
    > trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete
    > and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the
    political
    > system in the U.S.
    > >
    > > Optime vale!
    > >
    > > --
    > > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius
    Sabinus
    > > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    > corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58848 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: l'osservatorio archeologico Pharus
    thanks a lot amice. It is a good translation though!
    vale
    MIP
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
    <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Rough translation:
    >
    > Three months after the launch of "Pharus", we have already collected
    > many reports of emergencies around Italy. www.progettopharus.org
    >
    > Please cooperate with us commenting and/or reporting any situation of
    > neglect of our most ancient monuments and/or archaeological areas (you
    > can also write an article by registering on the site).
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Ass.Pomerium"
    > <associazionepomerium@> wrote:
    > >
    > > a tre mesi dal lancio del nostro osservatorio archeologico Pharus,
    > abbiamo
    > > raccolto già molte segnalazioni di emergenze sparse per l'Italia.
    > > Le trovate sul sito www.progettopharus.org .
    > >
    > > Vi invitiamo a collaborare con noi commentando e/o segnalandoci
    > qualsiasi
    > > situazione di incuria o degrado riguardante i nostri monumenti più
    > antichi
    > > e/o le zone archeologiche (potete anche voi scrivere un articolo
    > > registrandovi sul sito).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Vi aspettiamo numerosi.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > ----
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Per informazioni:
    > > Associazione Pomerium
    > > c/o Tanzilli - Via A.Grandidier, 13 - 00134 Roma
    > >
    > > info@ - amministrazione@ - http://www.pomerium.org
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58849 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
    ave Pompeia,

    I was speaking in general and not referring specifically to any post.
    Sorry, I've just wrote the general sense of conflict generated by
    those arguments using wrong words.

    What I underline is that religious topics (not Religio internal
    questions, but rather "monoteistic followers should stay here or not"
    stuff) and not-NR politics are the only ones able to produce dozens of
    posts in-a-row. A sad observation. And makes this list really boring.
    E.g. I believe only a couple or three Italian people but me still read
    this list. And wonder why?

    Vade retro military and army topics! Vade retro historical questions!
    Vade retro Archaelogy! eh eh

    vale optime
    MIP

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
    <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:
    >
    > ---
    >
    > Perusiane:
    >
    > Would you mind showing me the posts where Christian citizens are
    > making any 'claims' against 'gentiles'?
    >
    > If there are specific main list issues you are referring to, I'd like
    > to know about them.
    > Is there something you would like to share which I am unaware of?
    >
    > Just wondering,
    >
    > Vale
    >
    > Pompeia
    > Scriba Marco Iulio Perusiano
    > Curule Aedilis
    > 2757 A.U.C.
    >
    >
    > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
    > <peraznanie@> wrote:
    > >
    > > well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against
    > gentiles
    > > and viceversa, then us politics....the same old story here in NR.
    > > Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer to
    > stay
    > > away from this list and NR politics in general.
    > >
    > > valete optime
    > > M IVL PERVSIANVS
    > > PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face to
    > > face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    > > <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
    > > >
    > > > Moderator's notice:
    > > >
    > > > Please all remember that the current elections in the United
    > States
    > > of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum
    > of
    > > Nova Roma.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
    > > >
    > > > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
    > > > Q U A E S T O R
    > > > P O N T I F E X
    > > > SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
    > > > ------------------------------------------
    > > > Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
    > > > Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
    > > > Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
    > > > Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
    > > > Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
    > > > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
    > > > -------------------------------------------
    > > > Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
    > > > Dominus Factionis Russatae
    > > > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
    > > >
    > > > --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@> ha
    > scritto:
    > > > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@>
    > > > Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
    > > > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
    > > >
    > > > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
    > > > president, so I won't be voting.
    > > >
    > > >     Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't
    > mind
    > > having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona,
    > there
    > > were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If
    > > the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the
    > > trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete
    > > and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the
    > political
    > > system in the U.S.
    > > >
    > > > Optime vale!
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > > > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > > > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius
    > Sabinus
    > > > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    > > corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58850 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
    Salve amice Perusiane !

    I think that you are bit bad faith. ;-)

    Even if the praetorian team has wished to limit -and our cives wise
    enough refraining their excitation- the U.S. elections topic, we
    cannot absolutely make as if the historical time that the U.S.A. and,
    at a lower level, the world lives today, would not exist. As an
    European myself, I think that our cives have rather shown their
    dignitas here refraining in posting tons ;-) of messages.

    On the religious etc. topic, I think that there will be further and
    further posts as long as we will have not re-examined and re-assessed
    some of our keys parts of our common 'contract', and on the nature of
    our Main List (both the Forum of our State and a place for
    discussions with non-citizens about romanitas). I am optimistic on
    this, for I think that the work that the Senate will probably make on
    our web site's contents will contribute answering this need.

    On the other matters (military, archelogical, history, etc., but also
    cooking, religion, clothings, litterature, etc.), we should also have
    a reflection on the relation btw this Forum and the specialized lists
    and/or sodalitates.
    We cannot be everywhere at the same time. So, we face a sort of
    paradox: the more skilled we may become, the more specialized, and
    the more we will tend to meet in specialized fora, i.e. not this
    general (by essence) one. And on the contrary, if we had passionating
    discussions here on the upper fields, I think that it would
    contribute to clear up the specialized lists.
    I think that we must think about this, and tell us, everyone, what
    time we get, and where we want to put it, and the consequences.

    But a silent Main List is not *in itself* the sign that things go
    wrong... or right. ;-)


    Vale bene amice,


    Albucius







    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
    <peraznanie@...> wrote:
    >
    > ave Pompeia,
    >
    > I was speaking in general and not referring specifically to any
    post.
    > Sorry, I've just wrote the general sense of conflict generated by
    > those arguments using wrong words.
    >
    > What I underline is that religious topics (not Religio internal
    > questions, but rather "monoteistic followers should stay here or
    not"
    > stuff) and not-NR politics are the only ones able to produce dozens
    of
    > posts in-a-row. A sad observation. And makes this list really
    boring.
    > E.g. I believe only a couple or three Italian people but me still
    read
    > this list. And wonder why?
    >
    > Vade retro military and army topics! Vade retro historical
    questions!
    > Vade retro Archaelogy! eh eh
    >
    > vale optime
    > MIP
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia"
    > <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@> wrote:
    > >
    > > ---
    > >
    > > Perusiane:
    > >
    > > Would you mind showing me the posts where Christian citizens are
    > > making any 'claims' against 'gentiles'?
    > >
    > > If there are specific main list issues you are referring to, I'd
    like
    > > to know about them.
    > > Is there something you would like to share which I am unaware of?
    > >
    > > Just wondering,
    > >
    > > Vale
    > >
    > > Pompeia
    > > Scriba Marco Iulio Perusiano
    > > Curule Aedilis
    > > 2757 A.U.C.
    > >
    > >
    > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Marcus Iulius Perusianus"
    > > <peraznanie@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against
    > > gentiles
    > > > and viceversa, then us politics....the same old story here in
    NR.
    > > > Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer
    to
    > > stay
    > > > away from this list and NR politics in general.
    > > >
    > > > valete optime
    > > > M IVL PERVSIANVS
    > > > PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face
    to
    > > > face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    > > > <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
    > > > >
    > > > > Moderator's notice:
    > > > >
    > > > > Please all remember that the current elections in the United
    > > States
    > > > of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this
    forum
    > > of
    > > > Nova Roma.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
    > > > >
    > > > > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
    > > > > Q U A E S T O R
    > > > > P O N T I F E X
    > > > > SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
    > > > > ------------------------------------------
    > > > > Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > > Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > > Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
    > > > > Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
    > > > > Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
    > > > > Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
    > > > > Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
    > > > > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
    > > > > -------------------------------------------
    > > > > Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
    > > > > Dominus Factionis Russatae
    > > > > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
    > > > >
    > > > > --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@> ha
    > > scritto:
    > > > > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@>
    > > > > Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
    > > > > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae
    s.p.d.
    > > > >
    > > > > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to
    be
    > > > > president, so I won't be voting.
    > > > >
    > > > >     Surely there is someone on the planet whom you
    wouldn't
    > > mind
    > > > having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona,
    > > there
    > > > were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and
    Nader). If
    > > > the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into
    the
    > > > trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is
    complete
    > > > and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the
    > > political
    > > > system in the U.S.
    > > > >
    > > > > Optime vale!
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > > > > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
    Austroccidentalis
    > > > > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius
    > > Sabinus
    > > > > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il
    nuovo
    > > > corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > > > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58851 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Your citizen photo, 11/5/2008, 12:00 pm
    Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
     
    Title:   Your citizen photo
     
    Date:   Wednesday November 5, 2008
    Time:   12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
    Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
    Notes:   Citizens! You can update or change your photo in the Album Civium and on the website by following the instructions here: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:Submit_Citizen_Photo
     
    Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58852 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: RR & NR
    Salve!
    Severus, you aren't too much tolerant with NR.
    Your real citizenship (that gives you a passport) doesn't dipend on your religion, why should your novaroman citizenship dipends on it? If your State is not christian, you can worship your God (isn't He/It/She the God of all mankinds and universes?) and be happy there, where you stay, but here, flying over these mails, why not? The roman religion that NR could talk about doesn't look like a stone in the desert, the r.r. is always building bridges, will never die and your christian religio is roman too: why your resignation? why didn't you candidate yourself? is your religion rolling away like that stone? 
    Vale.
    ACC
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58853 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: NONAE NOVEMBRIS: Faunalia Rustica
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
    plurimam dicit: Faunus felicitatem in nos impertiat.

    Hodie est Nonae Novembris; haec dies fastus est: Faunalia rustica

    Ye Fauns, to rustics ever kind, come foot it,
    Fauns and Dryad-maidens paired; your gifts I sing.
    ~ P. Vergilius Maro, Georgic 1.10-12

    "Amorous Faunus, from whom the Nymphs flee, step lightly across my
    boundaries and sunny fields, and soon depart, leaving your blessing
    on my young lambs and kids, and leveled tender shoots.

    "If gentle, at year's end a plumb kid I'll offer, with wine libations
    liberally poured from the cups of Venus' devotees, and many sweet,
    fragrant herbs I'll burn on your ancient altar." ~ Horace Carmen
    3.8.1-8


    Commenting on these lines from Virgil's Georgics, Probus wrote, "In
    Italy what is made as an annual sacrifice, they celebrate each
    month." The annual festival of the Faunalia rustica fell on the
    Nones of December. It does not appear on any of the official
    calendars, probably because it was a rustic festival. However it
    would seem, and Probus' comments appears to confirm, that the Romans
    dedicated the Nones of every month to Faunus in the same way that
    each Kalends were dedicated to Juno and every Ides to Jupiter.
    Faunus is a God of transitional places. He is not a God of the deep
    forest like Silvanus. Nor is He a God of meadows and planes. He is
    more of a God of the forest edge, where goats might graze on the
    grass of fields and on the low branches of a nearby wood. Similarly
    then He is associated with that transitional moment of the Moon's
    First Quarter, lying between the New Moon and the Full Moon. He is
    also a transitional God in another sense in that He offers prophecy
    communicating between humanity on earth and the celestial Gods
    above. With Faunus this involved a rite of incubation, lying
    somewhere between deep sleep and wakefulness, communicating between
    the conscious and the subconscious minds, between the rational mind
    and the irrational soul if you will. Below we have two references to
    the incubation rite of Faunua, the first from Virgil and the second
    from Ovid.

    "The King, sore troubled by these portents, sought oracular wisdom of
    his sacred sire, Faunus, the fate-revealer, where the groves stretch
    under high Albunea, and her stream roars from its haunted well,
    exhaling through vast, gloomful woods its pestilential air. Here all
    Oenotria's tribes ask oracles in dark and doubtful days; here, when
    the priest has brought his gifts, and in the night so still, couched
    on spread fleeces of the offered flock, awaiting slumber lies, then
    wondrously a host of flitting shapes he sees, and hears voices that
    come and go, with Gods he holds high converse, or in deep Avernian
    gloom parleys with Acheron. Thither drew near Father Latinus, seeking
    truth divine. Obedient to the olden rite, he slew a hundred fleecy
    sheep, and pillowed lay upon their outstretched skins. Straightway a
    voice out of the lofty forest met his prayer." ~ P. Vergilius Maro,
    Aeneid 7.81-95


    "There was an ancient wood, long untouched by the axe, still sacred
    to the God of Maenalus. He gave answers, to calm minds, in night
    silence. Here Numa sacrificed twin ewes. The first fell to Faunus,
    the second to gentle Sleep. Both the fleeces were spread on the hard
    soil. Twice the king's unshorn head was sprinkled with spring water,
    twice he pressed the garland of beech leaves to his forehead. He
    abstained from sex; no meat might be served at table, nor could he
    wear a ring on any finger. Dressed in rough clothes he lay down on
    fresh fleeces, having worshipped the God with appropriate words.
    Meanwhile Night arrived, her calm brow wreathed with poppies,
    bringing with Her shadowy dreams. Faunus appeared, and pressing the
    fleece with a hard hoof, from the right side of the bed, He spoke." ~
    P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti 4.649-664


    Originally no festivals fell between the Kalends and Nones of any
    month. Under the empire, as new festivals were introduced, or former
    ones expanded over several days, they did begin to appear before the
    Nones. At the Kalends I mentioned that the Rex and Regina Sacrorum
    offered sacrifices to Janus and to Juno respectively. They led the
    Pontifices to the Curia Calabra where the Pontifices announced when
    the Nones would occur. On the Nones the Rex Sacrorum and Regina
    Sacrorum again offered sacrifices, presumably to Juno and Janus once
    more, and then, on the Arx, the Rex Sacrorum would announce the
    festivals of the month and on what days they would fall. In
    November, on the eight, is the Mania when the mundus is opened once
    more, and on the Ides are festivals for Jupiter, Feronia, Pietas, and
    Fortuna Primigenia.


    Today's thought is from Sextus, Select Sentences 20:

    "Such as you wish your neighbour to be to you, such also be you to
    your neighbour."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58854 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: OffTopic: U.S. Elections
    On 11/5/08, pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> wrote:


    Does any one know of a site where I could log on to see 'all' of the
    votes so far...Dem and GOP?

    I know I'm coming in a bit late but have you tried the BBC  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7697829.stm

    Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58855 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
    Salve,

    Since when has anyone actually "wondered" why people stay off the ML?
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
    http://novabritannia.org
    http://myspace.com/novabritannia
    http://ciarin.com/governor


    Marcus Iulius Perusianus wrote:

    well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against gentiles
    and viceversa, then us politics.... the same old story here in NR.
    Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer to stay
    away from this list and NR politics in general.

    valete optime
    M IVL PERVSIANVS
    PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face to
    face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    <cn_corn_lent@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVS  SAL.
    >
    > Moderator's notice:
    >
    > Please all remember that the current elections in the United States
    of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of
    Nova Roma.
    >
    >
    > CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
    >
    > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
    > Q U A E S T O R
    > P O N T I F E X
    > SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- ---
    > Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
    > Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
    > Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
    > Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
    > Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
    > Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
    > Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
    > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- ----
    > Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
    > Dominus Factionis Russatae
    > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
    >
    > --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@ ...> ha scritto:
    > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@ ...>
    > Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
    > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
    >
    > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
    > president, so I won't be voting.
    >
    >     Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind
    having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there
    were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If
    the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the
    trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete
    and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political
    system in the U.S.
    >
    > Optime vale!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > http://www.flickr. com/groups/ iofotografoevide o
    >

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58856 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex et flamen Cerialis S.P.D.

    Recently there have been some applications to the Collegium
    Pontificum from citizens who wished to be elected as flamines,
    pontiffs, and sacerdoes who have missed some very important points
    about making application. I would like to try to clear these up for
    everyone on the ML.

    I. All applicants must be assidui (tax-paying) citizens; there are no
    exceptions.

    II. Some offices can only be held by citizens of the Patrician Ordo,
    specifically the flamen Dialis, flamen Martialis, and flamen
    Quirinalis. There are other restrictions on these offices and an
    applicant should understand those before applying. Also, the Arval
    Brethren were traditionally patricians even though there is no
    specific decreta in NR that prevent a plebeian from applying.

    III. A working knowledge of the formula for the Roman Rites and the
    Latin language are very important for a candidate to be considered
    for a sacerdotal office. It is a good idea to take the Academia
    Thule's courses of Latin or study independently to obtain knowledge
    about Latin. The formula for the rites can be found in the NR wiki,
    the main NR site, and in works by Cato the Censor, Varro, Valerius
    Maximus, and other classical authors. The Loeb Classical Series (red
    covers) contain both Latin and English texts. Also, please peruse
    the recommended reading list on wiki.

    IV. If one is considering making application for a sacred office, it
    is always a good idea to contact one of the pontiffs to discuss your
    application, qualifications, and how you intent to contribute to the
    recreation and restoration of the Religio Romana. This will help
    applicants to avoid some of the mistakes that have occurred recently.

    This post doesn't constitute a decretum or an official opinion of the
    Collegium Pontificum. It is a personal observation by a member of
    the CP.

    Valete.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58857 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem plurimam dicit

    Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin

    I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our society and history but also of our lives.

    Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica

    I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house. Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current tunica, see:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Image:Tunica_1.jpg

    Olivas condio - I am pickling olives

    The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates, figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.

    I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.

    Optime valete!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58858 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Re: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
    Poplicola Flamen Falacer Aureliano Pontifici omnibusque S. P. D.

    This is a very sound suggestion indeed! But I also want to emphasize
    that we would love to have you join us if you fit the requirements.
    Duty and zeal are great for active worship of the gods, but you must
    also be willing to submit to learning and research as well.

    So please! If you are indeed very willing, contact any one of us to
    help you out further. After all, that's what we're here for.

    bene ualete!

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex et flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
    >
    > Recently there have been some applications to the Collegium
    > Pontificum from citizens who wished to be elected as flamines,
    > pontiffs, and sacerdoes who have missed some very important points
    > about making application. I would like to try to clear these up for
    > everyone on the ML.
    >
    > I. All applicants must be assidui (tax-paying) citizens; there are no
    > exceptions.
    >
    > II. Some offices can only be held by citizens of the Patrician Ordo,
    > specifically the flamen Dialis, flamen Martialis, and flamen
    > Quirinalis. There are other restrictions on these offices and an
    > applicant should understand those before applying. Also, the Arval
    > Brethren were traditionally patricians even though there is no
    > specific decreta in NR that prevent a plebeian from applying.
    >
    > III. A working knowledge of the formula for the Roman Rites and the
    > Latin language are very important for a candidate to be considered
    > for a sacerdotal office. It is a good idea to take the Academia
    > Thule's courses of Latin or study independently to obtain knowledge
    > about Latin. The formula for the rites can be found in the NR wiki,
    > the main NR site, and in works by Cato the Censor, Varro, Valerius
    > Maximus, and other classical authors. The Loeb Classical Series (red
    > covers) contain both Latin and English texts. Also, please peruse
    > the recommended reading list on wiki.
    >
    > IV. If one is considering making application for a sacred office, it
    > is always a good idea to contact one of the pontiffs to discuss your
    > application, qualifications, and how you intent to contribute to the
    > recreation and restoration of the Religio Romana. This will help
    > applicants to avoid some of the mistakes that have occurred recently.
    >
    > This post doesn't constitute a decretum or an official opinion of the
    > Collegium Pontificum. It is a personal observation by a member of
    > the CP.
    >
    > Valete.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58859 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-05
    Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 6, 2008.
    C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
     
    Today in Rome :
     
    (Julian day : 2 454 777).
     
    A.d. VIII Idus Novembres
    MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
    Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
     
    Day of the week : Iovis dies (Thursday).
     
    Lunaris dies: X.
    Nundinal letter : F.
    Luna crescens.
     
    Hora ortus Solis : 06:48.
    Hora occasus Solis : 16:58.
    Temp. Min. : 8° C.
    Temp. Max. : 19° C.
    Wind on Rome : 10 Km/h.
    Humidity: 68 %
    Weather :More sun than clouds. Mild.
     
    Horae diei :
     
    I: 06:48 - 07:40 Solis hora.
    II: 07:40 - 08:32 Veneris hora.
    III: 08:32 - 09:24 Mercurii hora.
    IV: 09:24 - 10:16 Lunae hora.
    V: 10:16 - 11:08 Saturni hora.
    VI: 11:08 - 12:00 Iovis hora.
    VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Martis hora.
    VIII: 12:49 - 13:39 Solis hora.
    IX: 13:39 - 14:29 Veneris hora.
    X: 14:29 - 15:18 Mercurii hora.
    XI: 15:18 - 16:08 Lunae hora.
    XII: 16:08 - 16:58 Saturni hora.
     

    Horae noctis :
     
    I: 16:58 - 18:08 Iovis hora.
    II: 18:08 - 19:18 Martis hora.
    III: 19:18 - 20:29 Solis hora.
    IV: 20:29 - 21:39 Veneris hora.
    V: 21:39 - 22:49 Mercurii hora.
    VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Lunae hora.
    VII: 00:00 - 01:08 Saturni hora.
    VIII: 01:08 - 02:16 Iovis hora.
    IX: 02:16 - 03:24 Martis hora.
    X: 03:24 - 04:32 Solis hora.
    XI: 04:32 - 05:40 Veneris hora.
    XII: 05:40 - 06:49 Mercurii hora.
     

    "Centum quadrijugos agitabo ad flumina currus."
    (Vergil, Geor: III, 18.)
     
    Valete.
     
    C. Petronius Dexter.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58860 From: Marcus Iulius Perusianus Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: US Elections are OFF TOPIC
    avete

    well, Marcella, you did make a good point here!

    vale
    MIP

    > Since when has anyone actually "wondered" why people stay off the ML?
    >
    > Vale
    > - Annia Minucia Marcella
    > Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
    > http://novabritannia.org
    > http://myspace.com/novabritannia
    > http://ciarin.com/governor
    >
    >
    >
    > Marcus Iulius Perusianus wrote:
    > >
    > > well, well. Of course, first the claims of christians against gentiles
    > > and viceversa, then us politics....the same old story here in NR.
    > > Keep on like that my friends....and wonder why citizens prefer to stay
    > > away from this list and NR politics in general.
    > >
    > > valete optime
    > > M IVL PERVSIANVS
    > > PS At the same time Urbs Romae citizens keep on meeting in face to
    > > face events. Thank you Aediles Urbis.
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
    > > "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    > > <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > CN. LENTVLVS SCRIBA PRAETORIUS QVIRITIBVSÂ SAL.
    > > >
    > > > Moderator's notice:
    > > >
    > > > Please all remember that the current elections in the United States
    > > of America (and of any other state) are off topic in the this forum of
    > > Nova Roma.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > CVRATE VTI VALEATIS!
    > > >
    > > > Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
    > > > Q U A E S T O R
    > > > P O N T I F E X
    > > > SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
    > > > ------------------------------------------
    > > > Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
    > > > Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
    > > > Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
    > > > Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
    > > > Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
    > > > Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
    > > > Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
    > > > -------------------------------------------
    > > > Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
    > > > Dominus Factionis Russatae
    > > > Latinista, Classicus Philologus
    > > >
    > > > --- Mar 4/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@> ha
    scritto:
    > > > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@>
    > > > Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] US ELECTION TODAY
    > > > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Data: Martedì 4 novembre 2008, 16:36
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Minuciae Marcellae s.p.d.
    > > >
    > > > >Sorry but I will not vote for someone that I do not want to be
    > > > president, so I won't be voting.
    > > >
    > > > Â Â Â Surely there is someone on the planet whom you wouldn't mind
    > > having for president. Choose someone on the ballot (in Arizona, there
    > > were 5 people listed: Obama, McCain, McKinney, Barr, and Nader). If
    > > the person you want isn't there, write them in. Don't fall into the
    > > trap of thinking that "there are only two options"; that is complete
    > > and utter rubbish and has come very close to destroying the political
    > > system in the U.S.
    > > >
    > > > Optime vale!
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > > > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > > > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > > > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    > > corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > > > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    > > <http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo>
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58861 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: a. d. VIII Eidus Novembris:
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
    plurimam dicit: Di vos salvam et servatam volunt

    Hodie est ante diem VIII Eidus Novembris; haec dies fastus aterque
    est:

    AUC 690 / 63 BCE: L. Sergius Catalina meets with his supporters

    AUC 768 / 15 CE: Birth of Julia Agrippina the Younger

    AUC 1108 / 355 CE: Julian the Blessed becomes Caesar

    Constantius II raises his cousin Julian to Caesar. He orders his
    sister Helena to marry Julian and dispatches both to Gaul. There
    Julian is made commander of the legions facing the Alamanni and
    Franks, fighting several successful campaigns before his troop
    declared him Emperor in 360 CE. Julian the Blessed then began to
    restore the religio Romana and the culti Deorum ex patria of other
    cities throughout the empire in a rare period of religious tolerance
    not seen since the death of Constantine.

    AUC 654 / 99 BCE Hastas Martias movisse

    Not only was an earthquake regularly reported and expiatory offerings
    made on that account, but I also find it mentioned in the early
    records that report was made to the Senate when the spears of Mars
    had moved in the sanctuary in the Regia. Because of such an
    occurance, a decree of the Senate was passed in the consulship of
    Marcus Antonius and Aulus Postumius, of which this is a copy:

    "Quod C. Iulius L. filius pontifex nuntiavit in sacrario in regia
    hastas Martias movisse, de ea re ita censuerunt, uti M. Antonius
    consul hostiis maioribus Iovi et Marti procuraret et ceteris dis,
    quibus videretur, lactantibus. Ibus uti procurasset, satis habendum
    censuerunt. Si quid succidaneis opus esset, robiis succideret."

    Where as Gaius Iulius, son of Lucius, the Pontifex, has reported that
    the spears of Mars have moved in the sanctuary in the Regia, the
    Senate has therefore decreed with reference to that matter, that
    Marcus Antonius the Consul shoul make expiation to Jupiter and Mars
    with full-grown victims, and with unweaned victims to such other Gods
    as he thought proper. They decided that it should be regarded as
    sufficient for him to have sacrificed with these. If there should be
    any need of additional victims, the additional offerings should be
    made with red victims." ~ Aulius Gellius, Noctes Atticae 4.6.1-2


    Our thought for today is from Seneca, Constantia 5.5

    "Fortuna can snatch away only what She has Herself given. But virtue
    She does not give; therefore She cannot take it away. Virtue is free,
    inviolable, unmoved, unshaken, so steeled against the blows of chance
    that she cannot be bent, much less broken. Facing the instruments of
    torture she holds her gaze unflinching, her expression changes not at
    all, whether a hard or a happy lot is shown her. Therefore the wise
    man will lose nothing which he will be able to regard as loss; for
    the only possession he has is virtue, and of this he can never be
    robbed. Of all else he has merely the use on sufferance. Who,
    however, is moved by the loss of that which is not his own? But if
    injury can do no harm to anything that a wise man owns, since if his
    virtue is safe his possessions are safe, then no injury can happen to
    the wise man."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58862 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Suggestions for applicants for the sacred offices
    M. Moravius Pontifex Maximus, Augur et Flamen Carmentalis S. P. D. :

    Di Deaeque vos bene ament.

    The Collegium Pontificum considers the former application process to
    have been inadequate in serving the needs of those who apply for
    sacerdotal office. There is recognition of a need to develop some
    program to train sacerdotes. There has been brought before the
    Collegium an idea of progressive offices. That is, beginning in one
    of the lower offices before applying for a higher office. As of now,
    in order to submit an application for Pontifex one must first serve a
    minimum of one year in a sacerdotal office. There has also been
    suggested that a probationary period be instituted. Whatever the
    Collegium does develop, one thing is certain. We shall no longer
    allow individuals to hold sacerdotal titles and not perform the
    sacerdotal duties that they have been chosen to serve.

    The last point made by Pontifex Aurelianus is good advice to heed.
    The different sacerdotal offices are intended to serve different
    purposes. A sacerdos is to develop a cultus for a specific deity and
    work, primarily for the time being, through the internet to inform
    others of the God or Goddess you serve. The office requires an
    ability to do research. A flamen has similar duties, but also serves
    to perform rituals on behalf of Nova Roma to a particular God or
    Goddess, and is expected to do more in the area of public rituals at
    the provincial or higher levels. The same would be true of Salii,
    Arvales, Luperci and other sacerdotes of specialized sodalitates.
    While may also serve to inform the public through the Internet, their
    primary duty is to perform rituals in public. Augures serve a
    specialized purpose, interacting with our magistrates. The Vestal
    Virgines are women who also serve in a very specialized area.
    Pontifices hold these same responsibilities, plus they have a
    responsibility to instruct others on the religio Romana, advise the
    Senate and magistrates on religious matters, administer other
    sacerdotes, and they must also be able to stand in place of any other
    sacerdos in the performance of ritual. Generally, although not
    required, a Pontifex has served in a magisterial office at some level.

    There are other positions available for those who are new to the
    religio Romana. Pontifices may accept an individual as a
    camillus/camilla. In public ritual a camillus would attend the
    Pontifex, pouring pure water over his hands, presenting the acerra of
    incense or other offerings. The camillus is mentored by the Pontifex
    and the relationship is one of instruction on the religio Romana. A
    Pontifex may also appoint a pontifex minor to serve, in a sense, as a
    scriba. A pontifex minor might be assigned any sort of duties, and
    the appointment may be for a limited duration. Although I say that a
    pontifex minor or camillus is appointed by a Pontifex, the
    appointment must be approved by the whole Collegium Pontificum.

    The Collegium Pontificum is trying to determine how best to proceed.
    We need to develop a training program to ensure a minimum standard
    for our applicants. So, I would say that for the time being you
    should expect delays on the Collegium's consideration of any
    applications.


    Invenietis omnia prospera evenisse sequentibus Deos, adversa
    spernentibus.



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen"
    <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
    >
    > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex et flamen Cerialis S.P.D.
    >
    > Recently there have been some applications to the Collegium
    > Pontificum from citizens who wished to be elected as flamines,
    > pontiffs, and sacerdoes who have missed some very important points
    > about making application. I would like to try to clear these up
    for
    > everyone on the ML.
    >
    > I. All applicants must be assidui (tax-paying) citizens; there are
    no
    > exceptions.
    >
    > II. Some offices can only be held by citizens of the Patrician
    Ordo,
    > specifically the flamen Dialis, flamen Martialis, and flamen
    > Quirinalis. There are other restrictions on these offices and an
    > applicant should understand those before applying. Also, the Arval
    > Brethren were traditionally patricians even though there is no
    > specific decreta in NR that prevent a plebeian from applying.
    >
    > III. A working knowledge of the formula for the Roman Rites and
    the
    > Latin language are very important for a candidate to be considered
    > for a sacerdotal office. It is a good idea to take the Academia
    > Thule's courses of Latin or study independently to obtain knowledge
    > about Latin. The formula for the rites can be found in the NR
    wiki,
    > the main NR site, and in works by Cato the Censor, Varro, Valerius
    > Maximus, and other classical authors. The Loeb Classical Series
    (red
    > covers) contain both Latin and English texts. Also, please peruse
    > the recommended reading list on wiki.
    >
    > IV. If one is considering making application for a sacred office,
    it
    > is always a good idea to contact one of the pontiffs to discuss
    your
    > application, qualifications, and how you intent to contribute to
    the
    > recreation and restoration of the Religio Romana. This will help
    > applicants to avoid some of the mistakes that have occurred
    recently.
    >
    > This post doesn't constitute a decretum or an official opinion of
    the
    > Collegium Pontificum. It is a personal observation by a member of
    > the CP.
    >
    > Valete.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58863 From: TITVS ANNAEVS REGVLVS Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    T. Annaeus Regulus Omnibus Salutem Plurimam Dicit,

    As you all know there has recently been some rather heated debate with
    regards to people of different religious backgrounds and their place
    in Nova Roma.

    While I was surfing the NRwiki earlier this morning, I came across a
    page that I found quite remarkable. First, I find it has some
    interesting comments on the spirit of the Consitution made by an
    original creator of the Constitution on the subject we have been
    discussing. Secondly, it is somewhat amusing to see how this previous
    debate played out almost identically to our own, more recent, one. I
    also suggest that the answer to our debate (if, indeed, it has an
    answer), which was slightly more specific than the older one, can
    possibly be found in this article and the decisions and conclusions
    made earlier in our history.

    In any case, for cives interested in looking at the article for any of
    these reasons, it can be found at:

    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29

    Valete
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58864 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    M. Hortensia Ti. Annaeo spd;
    interesting to read. Vedius and Cassius, whom I'm grateful to
    for founding Nova Roma, unfortunately never grew. Meaning they refused
    to learn or read Roman history which would have easily shown how
    intertwined the Roman republic is with Roman religion.

    NR isn't about separating church and state as 18 Century France or the
    U.S. did.

    It's about living your beliefs and Roman culture in everyday life, and
    part of that culture is the cultus deorum, we're the return of a
    nourishing Western culture; the entire culture.
    bene vale in pacem deorum
    M. Hortensia Maior




    which was slightly more specific than the older one, can
    > possibly be found in this article and the decisions and conclusions
    > made earlier in our history.
    >
    > In any case, for cives interested in looking at the article for any
    of
    > these reasons, it can be found at:
    >
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
    >
    > Valete
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58865 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    L. Julia Aquila T. Annaeo Regulo Omnibusque S.P.D.S.V.B.E.E.V.

    It is my sincere wish that this thread gets as much positive response
    as those that receive negative response. Many citizens have posted
    excerpts of the constitution during these harrowing debates that
    remain unanswered, unfortunately. It is only human nature, or as some
    like to say, the human condition, that a small minority are the
    intolerant squeaky wheels that thrive on keeping the negatives in the
    forefront. This is prime entertainment; after all, look at the horrid
    acts against man and nature perpetrated in the coliseum. Historians
    love to say that people were forced to attend, but common sense only
    tells a person that many people enjoyed watching
    such "entertainment." In our modern world we have reality TV, boxing
    and wrestling. Large crowds gather around a bar fight, a shooting in
    the street or even a woman getting beat by a man, and the unfortunate
    aspect is that few react immediately and even assist or call the
    authorities. How many times has there been a slow down in traffic
    simply because people have to slow down to watch a policeman who has
    pulled someone over and are searching the car? Or even the end
    products of a multiple car crash. This also occurred in the ancient
    world, although in the ancient counterparts.
    So I come back to the intolerant squeaky wheels, if we do not even
    the playing field with rational logic input from those who are
    observing and silently protesting the intolerant squeaky wheels then
    the squeaky wheels may be the ones pushing through amendments the
    majority does not want. Squeaky wheels often have an aspect that
    needs to be mended and this is evidenced by their verbal attacks and
    poor word choices, including cloaked public obscenities which do
    nothing for one's position, political or otherwise. That said it has
    been a source of pleasure to see many esteemed citizens speaking up
    lately. This is something to be proud of. This is what it is to be
    Roman. Citizens will not be dissuaded from NR by the squeaky wheels
    as long as there are rational, tolerant and logical citizens who use
    powerful and dignified words and are not afraid of the verbal venom
    of some of these disagreeable individuals.

    I implore everyone to follow this link and read the page.

    Di vos incolumes custodiant


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "TITVS ANNAEVS REGVLVS"
    <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> wrote:
    >
    > T. Annaeus Regulus Omnibus Salutem Plurimam Dicit,
    >
    > As you all know there has recently been some rather heated debate
    with
    > regards to people of different religious backgrounds and their place
    > in Nova Roma.
    >
    > While I was surfing the NRwiki earlier this morning, I came across a
    > page that I found quite remarkable. First, I find it has some
    > interesting comments on the spirit of the Consitution made by an
    > original creator of the Constitution on the subject we have been
    > discussing. Secondly, it is somewhat amusing to see how this
    previous
    > debate played out almost identically to our own, more recent, one. I
    > also suggest that the answer to our debate (if, indeed, it has an
    > answer), which was slightly more specific than the older one, can
    > possibly be found in this article and the decisions and conclusions
    > made earlier in our history.
    >
    > In any case, for cives interested in looking at the article for any
    of
    > these reasons, it can be found at:
    >
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
    >
    > Valete
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58866 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    Salvete omnes.

    This:

    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29

    is something I read in my very early days with Nova Roma and I think
    the ideas expressed are still valid for our Republic. I am not a
    practitioner of the Religo, but I have never had any problem with the
    oaths or cremonia required of me as quaestor, tribune, praetor, consul
    or senator. I consider myself a spriitual person and I believe I have
    benefited spirtually from these events.

    On a different note, I find it sad when I read the above that so few of
    the people mentioned in the debate are still with us. In fact, I
    believe my friend Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus is the only one.

    Valete,

    C. Popillius Laenas
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58867 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]
    Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio, viro optimo sal.

    And I am currently preparing to a scientific conference tomorrow where my professor Tamás Adamik and I will hold a lecture on Roman oratory gestures and performance, with my contribution as demonstrating in Roman costumes how a Roman orator looked like, spoke and made gestures with hands and body, based on Quintilian's descriptions.

    ...or, better to say, I'm currenty *not* preparing but reading NR e-mails... tsk, tsk...

    Back to the work and preparing... I still need to excercize some gestures and memorize some citations from Cicero...

    There will be made some photos and a video, too, that I will post here :)

    VALETE!

    Cn. Lentulus


    --- Gio 6/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha scritto:
    Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
    Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Facta mei -- My deeds
    A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Data: Giovedì 6 novembre 2008, 00:37

    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem plurimam dicit

    Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin

    I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our society and history but also of our lives.

    Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica

    I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house. Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current tunica, see:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Image: Tunica_1. jpg

    Olivas condio - I am pickling olives

    The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates, figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.

    I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.

    Optime valete!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com



    Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
    Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58868 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT OF LUDI PLEBEII 2761 AUC

    Aedilis Plebis Publius Constantinus Placidus omnibus civibus S.P.D.

    As part of the forthcoming Ludi Plebeii, to be held from 24th to 30 October 2008, I, as Nova Roma's Plebeian Aedile, will be setting up and managing the following games:

    MUNERA GLADIATORIA & LUDI CIRCENSES

    All citizens are hereby invited to subscribe their gladiators (up to a maximum of 32) in the Munera, and their chariots (up to a maximum of 16) in the Circenses. Detailed instructions on how to subscribe have already been posted here on the NR main list, and will be repeated on request.

    As of November 4, 2008, I have eight chariot entries and two gladiator entries.

    The deadline for subscriptions will be on November 22.

    The two winners (of the Munera and the Circenses) will be awarded a Nova Roman Sestertius each, and a place of honor here on the Ludi Plebeii page.

    HISTORICAL QUIZ: IPSE DIXIT, PART II

    During the Ludi Plebeii week, I will be posting on the main Nova Roma main list 12 questions (in two batches of six questions each) relating to famous sentences in Latin. All citizens are hereby invited to send me their answers according to the instructions which will be posted in due time on the main NR list.

    The winner of the Historical Quiz will be awarded a Nova Roman Sestertius and a place of honor here on this page.

    OPTIME VALETE

    P.  Con.  Placidus

    Aedilis Plebis Novæ Romæ


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58869 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: LUDI PLEBEII 2761 AUC: Errata Corrige
    I wish to correct a mistake in my latest announcement for this year's
    Ludi Plebeii: the Ludi will be held from 24th to 30th NOVEMBER 2008, not
    October.

    Valete,
    P. Con. Placidus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58870 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo s.p.d.

        I would love to learn more about public speaking. I was going to take a class in it this year, but it didn't fit into my schedule. I may take one at the university at some point.
        Wouldn't it be interesting if candidates for office made short videos for everyone to watch? They could be a simple "talking head" style; nothing fancy. They could basically read their candidate statement or whatever. Hmmm. That could be very fun. I've always wanted to mess around with Apple's iMovie. Maybe this is the opportunity. :-)

    Optime vale, amice!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com



    From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 2:09:31 PM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]

    Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio, viro optimo sal.

    And I am currently preparing to a scientific conference tomorrow where my professor Tamás Adamik and I will hold a lecture on Roman oratory gestures and performance, with my contribution as demonstrating in Roman costumes how a Roman orator looked like, spoke and made gestures with hands and body, based on Quintilian's descriptions.

    ...or, better to say, I'm currenty *not* preparing but reading NR e-mails... tsk, tsk...

    Back to the work and preparing... I still need to excercize some gestures and memorize some citations from Cicero...

    There will be made some photos and a video, too, that I will post here :)

    VALETE!

    Cn. Lentulus


    --- Gio 6/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@yahoo. com> ha scritto:
    Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@yahoo. com>
    Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Facta mei -- My deeds
    A: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Data: Giovedì 6 novembre 2008, 00:37

    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem plurimam dicit

    Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin

    I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our society and history but also of our lives.

    Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica

    I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house. Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current tunica, see:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Image: Tunica_1. jpg

    Olivas condio - I am pickling olives

    The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates, figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.

    I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.

    Optime valete!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com



    Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
    Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58874 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
    M. Hortensia Cn. Lentulo Cn. Caelio viris optimis spd;
    I'm working on a Sermo II Latin quiz so I hope Lentulus will
    correct me for retitling our thread to 'Acta' latin for newspaper.

    Mons Capellae:
    [Lentulus is this correct for chapel hill?]:

    We changed our tunica making session to Monday, and tonight we'll be
    having a convivium at my house, Caelia suggested that our winter
    meetings should have Roman food; so we'll be having tea and looking
    at Michael Grant's book "Roman Cookery"

    This is a splendid idea : we should keep it as a 'live' thread where
    we can post the doings in our area, and what' we're doing.
    optime vale
    Maior




    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio, viro optimo sal.
    >
    > And I am currently preparing to a scientific conference tomorrow
    where my professor Tamás Adamik and I will hold a lecture on Roman
    oratory gestures and performance, with my contribution as
    demonstrating in Roman costumes how a Roman orator looked like,
    spoke and made gestures with hands and body, based on Quintilian's
    descriptions.
    >
    > ...or, better to say, I'm currenty *not* preparing but reading NR
    e-mails... tsk, tsk...
    >
    > Back to the work and preparing... I still need to excercize some
    gestures and memorize some citations from Cicero...
    >
    > There will be made some photos and a video, too, that I will post
    here :)
    >
    > VALETE!
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus
    >
    >
    > --- Gio 6/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha
    scritto:
    > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
    > Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Facta mei -- My deeds
    > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Data: Giovedì 6 novembre 2008, 00:37
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque
    salutem plurimam dicit
    >
    >
    >
    > Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin
    >
    >
    >
    > I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the spring
    of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to
    a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and
    then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the
    language. I have started a reasonably successful study group which
    meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii
    Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out
    words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that
    he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are
    learning that the language is more than just something difficult.
    They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich
    literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only
    of our society and history but also of our lives.
    >
    >
    >
    > Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica
    >
    >
    >
    > I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house.
    Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma
    antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and
    it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought
    3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40
    inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I
    measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles
    again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut
    a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-
    sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not
    horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going
    to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted.
    My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of
    my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current
    tunica, see:
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Image: Tunica_1. jpg
    >
    >
    >
    > Olivas condio - I am pickling olives
    >
    >
    >
    > The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around
    the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates,
    figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are
    decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down
    the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We
    decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did
    so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many,
    but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    >
    > After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and
    unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for
    a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last
    night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed
    them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down
    one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to
    some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag
    full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine.
    Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine
    solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for
    about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it
    with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives
    that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't.
    I'll let you all know how they are.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that
    others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.
    >
    >
    >
    > Optime valete!
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    >
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    >
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    >
    > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58875 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: NR budget. facts
    Salve, Stephen --

    Those budget numbers: are they in thousands?

    - Q. OS

    Stephen Gallagher wrote:

    Salve Pompeia Minucia

    Welcome back!!

    "I'm not sure where the budgets are published on the website right
    now, but since you are a Senatrix now you can see the past budgets in
    the files section of the Senate Forum."

    Under the Treasury label on the Wiki.

    http://novaroma. org/nr/Aerarium_ Saturni_% 28Nova_Roma% 29

    Vale

    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

    >From: "pompeia_minucia_ tiberia" <pompeia_minucia_ tiberia@yahoo. com>
    >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR budget. facts
    >Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:58:31 -0000
    >
    >---Salve Annia Minucia, Salvete Omnes:
    >
    >Although I weightedly applaud the services of Iunia with our
    >finances, I wish to make a clarification for yourself and others.
    >
    > The 'thousands' of dollars in question was not actually 'missing'
    >from our treasury... In 2007 P. Cassia (who was not responsible for
    >the budget at the time) had reported an amount in excess of 20
    >thousand dollars U.S. when all the while we were showing approx 8-9
    >thousand less in our annual budgets. The difficulty was in how the
    >budget was being done up, by different Quaestors, year after year.
    >There was a line amount entitled 'taxes reserved for
    >provincia'. ..which was deducted from our total as an 'expense'... and
    >these yearly amounts were never transferred into a fund of their
    >own... thus they were just being
    >shaved off as an expense on paper, like money out the window.
    >
    >I'm not sure where the budgets are published on the website right
    >now, but since you are a Senatrix now you can see the past budgets in
    >the files section of the Senate Forum.
    >
    >I know that's silly.
    >
    > But that's unfortunately what can happen when different people do
    >up the budget each year, who don't have much if any financial
    >experience, relying on the past actions of others. So I'm glad to
    >have one person, Iunia doing the budget. Prior to her, it was the
    >duty of the Quaestors, with P. Cassia holding the funds and paying
    >expenses on behalf of NR.
    >
    >In 2006, because of noted budgetary inconsistencies from over the
    >years, an audit was called and I, on behalf of Modianus and myself,
    >produced a Statement of Income and Expense for the year, rather than
    >the usual budgeted format. In 2007 (Galerius), carried into 2008,
    >(Piscinus et Sabinus) we are in much better shape, accountability
    >wise.
    >
    >Valete
    >Pompeia Minucia
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
    >wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > >
    > > Unsavory events such as getting the CP working by removing an
    > > uncooperative and frequently absent PM? Or maybe reorganizing the
    >way we
    > > handle our funds with a proper CFO who managed to recuperate
    >thousands
    > > of dollars to our treasury?
    > >
    > > The trial thing was just stupid though.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > - Annia Minucia Marcella
    > > Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
    > > http://novabritanni a.org
    > > http://myspace. com/novabritanni a
    > > http://ciarin. com/governor
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Iulius Caesar A. Minuciae Marcellae sal.
    > > >
    > > > We may have to part company on that :) I think a lot of what has
    > > > transpired this year, in respect of removals and trials, was
    >planned
    > > > well in advance. That smacks of a considerable degree of planning,
    > > > and the necessary amount of influence to line up the dominos.
    > > >
    > > > We seem to excel at that, but rarely can we manage soemthing as
    >basic
    > > > as substantially increasing the tax paying base and all the other
    > > > myriad of tasks that need to be done. If as much energy was spent
    > > > this year on positive projects, other than the more unsavoury
    >events,
    > > > then this might indeed have been a year to laud.
    > > >
    > > > Vale bene
    > > >
    > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:Nova- Roma%
    >40yahoogroups. com>,
    > > > Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
    > > > wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve,
    > > > >
    > > > > I doubt anyone here has that much influence. You know as well
    >as I
    > > > that
    > > > > it takes an awfully long time to get any real change
    >accomplished
    > > > here.
    > > > > I don't see any Obama's here.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    >



    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58876 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Salve Ahenobarbe,
    your tunica looks just right (hem apart, but you're going to fix
    that). Baggy is what it's supposed to look like.
    You don't need to make a tunica that's a tighter fit than that. Don't
    let yourself be influenced by what you see "reenactors" wearing. Most
    of the time they wear stuff which is not historically correct at all.

    A tight tunica would make you look like a slave whose master wanted to
    save fabric.

    As to the olives, I never heard of making a side cut in them. Well, I
    hope they turn out well. I've found differenc recipes for olives,
    probably the safest one in order for them not to stay bitter is addind
    soda. However I did try a recipy similar to yours, with salt only,
    that requires the brine to be changed just twice.
    The olives I picked last November in my aunt's garden are waiting for
    me in a jar at my Budapest home. Maybe I'll dare taste them when I'm back.

    Optime vale,
    L. Livia Plauta

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem
    plurimam dicit
    >
    > Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin
    >
    > I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the
    spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be
    transferring to a state university where I will take a full second
    year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other
    courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study
    group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly
    Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick
    out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me
    that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are
    learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They
    are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature
    that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our
    society and history but also of our lives.
    >
    > Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica
    >
    > I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house.
    Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua.
    The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me
    USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards
    total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and
    cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my
    ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the
    cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit
    in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic.
    It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I
    still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it
    hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably be cut
    thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy.
    For the state of the current tunica, see:
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Image:Tunica_1.jpg
    >
    > Olivas condio - I am pickling olives
    >
    > The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around
    the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates,
    figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are
    decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down
    the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We
    decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so
    a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but
    we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    > After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and
    unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a
    couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I
    took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took
    all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of
    them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I
    found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so
    that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will
    have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per
    unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will
    pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a
    month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a
    lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.
    >
    > I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that
    others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.
    >
    > Optime valete!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58877 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
    C. Petronius Maiori s.p.d.,

    > Mons Capellae:
    > [Lentulus is this correct for chapel hill?]:

    Capella is, in classical Latin, a she-goat. A young she-goat, a
    young "capra". Mons Capellae is in classical Latin "Little she-goat
    Hill".

    Capella is also the Roman name of a star in the constellation named
    in French "Cocher".

    It was also a Roman cognomen.

    It was later a hood, the hood of the capellanus "chapelain". And
    after the chapel.

    In classical Latin a chapel is rather a sacellum or a fanulum.

    Chapel Hill = Sacelli Mons/Collis or Fanuli Mons/Collis.

    > We changed our tunica making session to Monday, and tonight we'll be
    > having a convivium at my house, Caelia suggested that our winter
    > meetings should have Roman food; so we'll be having tea and looking
    > at Michael Grant's book "Roman Cookery"

    Miam...

    Vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58878 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: NR budget. facts
    I withdraw the question. I can tell by looking back through previous years that we're dealing with 100's of dollars in the third quarter of this year.

    - Q.OS


    Q. Ovidius Sabinus wrote:

    Salve, Stephen --

    Those budget numbers: are they in thousands?

    - Q. OS

    Stephen Gallagher wrote:

    Salve Pompeia Minucia

    Welcome back!!

    "I'm not sure where the budgets are published on the website right
    now, but since you are a Senatrix now you can see the past budgets in
    the files section of the Senate Forum."

    Under the Treasury label on the Wiki.

    http://novaroma. org/nr/Aerarium_ Saturni_% 28Nova_Roma% 29

    Vale

    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

    >From: "pompeia_minucia_ tiberia" <pompeia_minucia_ tiberia@yahoo. com>
    >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: NR budget. facts
    >Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:58:31 -0000
    >
    >---Salve Annia Minucia, Salvete Omnes:
    >
    >Although I weightedly applaud the services of Iunia with our
    >finances, I wish to make a clarification for yourself and others.
    >
    > The 'thousands' of dollars in question was not actually 'missing'
    >from our treasury... In 2007 P. Cassia (who was not responsible for
    >the budget at the time) had reported an amount in excess of 20
    >thousand dollars U.S. when all the while we were showing approx 8-9
    >thousand less in our annual budgets. The difficulty was in how the
    >budget was being done up, by different Quaestors, year after year.
    >There was a line amount entitled 'taxes reserved for
    >provincia'. ..which was deducted from our total as an 'expense'... and
    >these yearly amounts were never transferred into a fund of their
    >own... thus they were just being
    >shaved off as an expense on paper, like money out the window.
    >
    >I'm not sure where the budgets are published on the website right
    >now, but since you are a Senatrix now you can see the past budgets in
    >the files section of the Senate Forum.
    >
    >I know that's silly.
    >
    > But that's unfortunately what can happen when different people do
    >up the budget each year, who don't have much if any financial
    >experience, relying on the past actions of others. So I'm glad to
    >have one person, Iunia doing the budget. Prior to her, it was the
    >duty of the Quaestors, with P. Cassia holding the funds and paying
    >expenses on behalf of NR.
    >
    >In 2006, because of noted budgetary inconsistencies from over the
    >years, an audit was called and I, on behalf of Modianus and myself,
    >produced a Statement of Income and Expense for the year, rather than
    >the usual budgeted format. In 2007 (Galerius), carried into 2008,
    >(Piscinus et Sabinus) we are in much better shape, accountability
    >wise.
    >
    >Valete
    >Pompeia Minucia
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
    >wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > >
    > > Unsavory events such as getting the CP working by removing an
    > > uncooperative and frequently absent PM? Or maybe reorganizing the
    >way we
    > > handle our funds with a proper CFO who managed to recuperate
    >thousands
    > > of dollars to our treasury?
    > >
    > > The trial thing was just stupid though.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > - Annia Minucia Marcella
    > > Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
    > > http://novabritanni a.org
    > > http://myspace. com/novabritanni a
    > > http://ciarin. com/governor
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Iulius Caesar A. Minuciae Marcellae sal.
    > > >
    > > > We may have to part company on that :) I think a lot of what has
    > > > transpired this year, in respect of removals and trials, was
    >planned
    > > > well in advance. That smacks of a considerable degree of planning,
    > > > and the necessary amount of influence to line up the dominos.
    > > >
    > > > We seem to excel at that, but rarely can we manage soemthing as
    >basic
    > > > as substantially increasing the tax paying base and all the other
    > > > myriad of tasks that need to be done. If as much energy was spent
    > > > this year on positive projects, other than the more unsavoury
    >events,
    > > > then this might indeed have been a year to laud.
    > > >
    > > > Vale bene
    > > >
    > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:Nova- Roma%
    >40yahoogroups. com>,
    > > > Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
    > > > wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve,
    > > > >
    > > > > I doubt anyone here has that much influence. You know as well
    >as I
    > > > that
    > > > > it takes an awfully long time to get any real change
    >accomplished
    > > > here.
    > > > > I don't see any Obama's here.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    >



    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.


    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58879 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
    L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

    Now that the excitement about the US elections is over, maybe people
    could take some time to express opinions about my proposal to repeal
    the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum and the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    plebis tributorum.

    The contio on this matter has two more days to go, then on Sunday
    we'll begin voting.

    My appeal can be found on the election page
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Election_MMDCCLXI_%28Nova_Roma%29), and
    the details on the two plebiscita to repeal the laws are here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Election_MMDCCLXI_%28Nova_Roma%29/Plebiscitum_I
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58880 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    Salve Laenas,

    Merullus is still around, assidui and a very quiet member of the
    Senate. Vedius is in self-imposed exile, though he is still assidui
    and on the Senate list.

    Other than that, yeah, I'm it. I'm the only Founding member of Nova
    Roma still active. It is sad but people change and so do organizations.

    Vale,

    Palladius




    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
    <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete omnes.
    >
    > This:
    >
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
    >
    > is something I read in my very early days with Nova Roma and I think
    > the ideas expressed are still valid for our Republic. I am not a
    > practitioner of the Religo, but I have never had any problem with the
    > oaths or cremonia required of me as quaestor, tribune, praetor, consul
    > or senator. I consider myself a spriitual person and I believe I have
    > benefited spirtually from these events.
    >
    > On a different note, I find it sad when I read the above that so few of
    > the people mentioned in the debate are still with us. In fact, I
    > believe my friend Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus is the only one.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > C. Popillius Laenas
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58881 From: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus (Michael Kelly Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    Salvete Palladi et omnes,

    "It is sad but people change and so do organizations."

    How true!

    QSP







    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Salve Laenas,
    >
    > Merullus is still around, assidui and a very quiet member of the
    > Senate. Vedius is in self-imposed exile, though he is still assidui
    > and on the Senate list.
    >
    > Other than that, yeah, I'm it. I'm the only Founding member of Nova
    > Roma still active. It is sad but people change and so do
    organizations.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Palladius
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaiuspopilliuslaenas"
    > <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salvete omnes.
    > >
    > > This:
    > >
    > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Return_of_Germanicus_%28Nova_Roma%29
    > >
    > > is something I read in my very early days with Nova Roma and I
    think
    > > the ideas expressed are still valid for our Republic. I am not a
    > > practitioner of the Religo, but I have never had any problem with
    the
    > > oaths or cremonia required of me as quaestor, tribune, praetor,
    consul
    > > or senator. I consider myself a spriitual person and I believe I
    have
    > > benefited spirtually from these events.
    > >
    > > On a different note, I find it sad when I read the above that so
    few of
    > > the people mentioned in the debate are still with us. In fact, I
    > > believe my friend Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus is the only
    one.
    > >
    > > Valete,
    > >
    > > C. Popillius Laenas
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58882 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-06
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Facta mei -- My deeds
    A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
     

    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem plurimam dicit

    Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin

    I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college.

        ATS:  And I see you are making good progress in it.  


     In the spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the language.

        ATS:  Wonderful!  A fine example to our citizens!  


    I have started a reasonably successful study group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out words and endings.

        ATS:  Also wonderful!  Remember, though, the Nuntii Latini use a bit of an odd pronunciation, in which v is pronounced like English v instead of English w, and the diphthong –ae is more like American English long -a than eye, whereas the latter is the correct pronunciation.  


    I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently,

        ATS:  Send him/her to us...While it lasts (maybe one more year, if we are lucky) we do have Sermo Latinus...

    and many others are learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our society and history but also of our lives.

        ATS:  Absolutely.  And it is not difficult, either, though one must put one’s mind to it.  Anyone who can learn such useless nonsense as the batting averages of major league ballplayers and rushing yardage of football players can surely learn Latin.  

    Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica

    I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house. Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy.

        ATS:  It’s supposed to be baggy, and looks fine in that respect.  It is, however, too long, for it should be above the knees when finished.  You have also girt it in a rather Hellenic fashion, forming an inverted U as was normally done with the khiton and peplos, particularly the long, typically (but not always) women’s khiton.  For a men’s tunica, I would recommend 45 inch wide fabric, and maybe four to four and a half yards long.  That should be about 1.10 or so meters wide and 3 to 4 meters long, but my arithmetic is considerably inferior to my Latin.  It would be easier, and more authentic, to cut the fabric in half vertically and seam it across the shoulders, leaving an aperture for the head than to attempt to make a proper slit with a facing.  The ancients could well leave a slit during the weaving process, but it’s rather difficult to find cooperative fabric for that.  


    I still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted.

        ATS:  Yes, that’s where it should be.  


    My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current tunica, see:
     http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Image:Tunica_1.jpg

        ATS:  Once again, baggy is what it should be.  My khitones use about six yards...or more, three 45 inch panels up to a yard longer than I am, maybe two yards if I make the overfold style.  Ancient clothing was based on a totally different system from the one we use, called the draped tradition, whereas Western attire uses the tailored tradition.

    Olivas condio - I am pickling olives

    The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates, figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
     After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.

    I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.

        ATS: I leave the olives to you, but I am glad that you are doing these other things...and providing an example to our citizens in particular regarding our language.  

    Optime valete!

    Vale, et valete.  

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

     
          
       Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/58857
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58883 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Acta   [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds]

     A. Tullia Scholastica praeceptrix discipulae M. Hortensiae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    M. Hortensia Cn. Lentulo Cn. Caelio viris optimis spd;
    I'm working on a Sermo II Latin quiz

        ATS:  O Hortensia, as your praeceptrix linguae Latinae, I must point out that this is a homework assignment, NOT a quiz.  We don’t have quizzes in Sermo; we have a midterm and a final.  You must simply complete it without referring to your printed textbook, but have access to dictionaries, grammars, etc., and MUST use the recordings which accompany the printed text to produce your answers to this assignment.  Like other tests, quizzes tend to be taken under conditions which eliminate recourse to reference works and the like.  


    so I hope Lentulus will
    correct me for retitling our thread to 'Acta' latin for newspaper.

        ATS:  That happens to be the neuter plural (or feminine singular) of the perfect passive participle of the Latin verb ago,  and typically requires an adjective to produce the meaning newspaper.  Kindly take a look at Sentence 1 of Assimil Lesson 97.  Without the adjective, it simply means deeds...


    Mons Capellae:
    [Lentulus is this correct for chapel hill?]:


        ATS:  Given the meaning of capella, I don’t theenk so.  


    We changed our tunica making session to Monday, and tonight we'll be
    having a convivium at my house, Caelia suggested that our winter
    meetings should have Roman food; so we'll be having tea and looking
    at Michael Grant's book "Roman Cookery"

    This is a splendid idea : we should keep it as a 'live' thread where
    we can post the doings in our area, and what' we're doing.
    optime vale
    Maior


    Valete.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus Cn. Caelio, viro optimo sal.
    >
    > And I am currently preparing to a scientific conference tomorrow
    where my professor Tamás Adamik and I will hold a lecture on Roman
    oratory gestures and performance, with my contribution as
    demonstrating in Roman costumes how a Roman orator looked like,
    spoke and made gestures with hands and body, based on Quintilian's
    descriptions.
    >
    > ...or, better to say, I'm currenty *not* preparing but reading NR
    e-mails... tsk, tsk...
    >
    > Back to the work and preparing... I still need to excercize some
    gestures and memorize some citations from Cicero...
    >
    > There will be made some photos and a video, too, that I will post
    here :)
    >
    > VALETE!
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus
    >
    >
    > --- Gio 6/11/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> ha
    scritto:
    > Da: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
    > Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Facta mei -- My deeds
    > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
    > Data: Giovedì 6 novembre 2008, 00:37
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >     
    >             Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque
    salutem plurimam dicit
    >
    >
    >
    > Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin
    >
    >
    >
    > I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the spring
    of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be transferring to
    a state university where I will take a full second year of Latin and
    then go on to composition, literature, and other courses in the
    language. I have started a reasonably successful study group which
    meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly Nuntii
    Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick out
    words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me that
    he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are
    learning that the language is more than just something difficult.
    They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich
    literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only
    of our society and history but also of our lives.
    >
    >
    >
    > Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica
    >
    >
    >
    > I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house.
    Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma
    antiqua. The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and
    it cost me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought
    3 yards total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40
    inches--and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I
    measured from my ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles
    again, and cut the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut
    a 14 inch wide slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-
    sewing, it became a tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not
    horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going
    to bring the hem up higher so it hangs just to my knees when belted.
    My next tunic will probably be cut thinner (not quite the width of
    my elbows) so as not to be so baggy. For the state of the current
    tunica, see:
    >
    >  http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Image: Tunica_1. jpg
    >
    >
    >
    > Olivas condio - I am pickling olives
    >
    >
    >
    > The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around
    the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates,
    figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are
    decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down
    the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We
    decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did
    so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many,
    but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    >
    >     After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and
    unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for
    a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last
    night, I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed
    them. I took all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down
    one side of them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to
    some recipes I found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag
    full of water so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine.
    Next week, I will have to change this brine for a stronger brine
    solution (more salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for
    about 3 or 4 weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it
    with fresh strong brine. After a month or so, we should have olives
    that are edible. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't.
    I'll let you all know how they are.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that
    others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.
    >
    >
    >
    > Optime valete!
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    >
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    >
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    >
    > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >       
    >
    >     
    >     
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >       Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo
    corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
    > http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo
    >

     
          
       Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/58857
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58884 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: a. d. VII Eidus Novembris: Final Defeat of the Senones
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
    plurimam dicit: Di vos servavissent semper

    Hodie est ante diem VII Eidus Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:

    AUC 470 / 283 BCE: Demise of the Celtic Senones

    "Once a great number of the Senones, a Celtic tribe, aided the
    Etruscans in war against the Romans. The latter sent ambassadors to
    the towns of the Senones and complained that, while they were under
    treaty stipulations, they were furnishing mercenaries to fight
    against the Romans. Although they bore the caduceus, and wore the
    garments of their office, Britomaris cut them in pieces and flung the
    parts away, alleging that his own father had been slain by the Romans
    while he was waging war in Etruria. The consul P. Cornelius
    (Dolabella), learning of this abominable deed while he was on the
    march, abandoned his campaign against the Etruscans, dashed with
    great rapidity by way of the Sabine country and Picenum against the
    towns of the Senones, and devastated them with fire and sword. He
    carried their women and children into slavery, and killed all the
    adult youth except a son of Britomaris, whom he reserved for awful
    torture, and led in his triumph. When the Senones who were in Etruria
    heard of this calamity, they joined with the Etruscans and marched
    against Rome. After various mishaps these Senones, having no homes to
    return to, and being in a state of frenzy over their misfortunes,
    fell upon Cn Domitius (Calvinus), by whom most of them were
    destroyed. The rest slew themselves in despair. Such was the
    punishment meted out to the Senones for their crime against the
    ambassadors." ~ Appian, History of Rome, in Constantine
    Porphyrogenitus, The Embassies 13-14


    AUC 977 / 224 CE Annals of the Fratres Arvales: Propitiatory Rites
    After a Storm

    "VII IDUS NOV the Fratres Arvales assembled in the Grove of the Dea
    Dia on the Via Campana, at the fifth milestone, on the instruction of
    magister Caius Porcius Priscus, and there they made sacrifice because
    in a violent storm some trees in the sacred grove of Dea Dia were
    struck by lightning and burnt; and in expiation for the uprooting of
    those trees, striking them with iron and consuming them in fire, for
    grinding down their remains and then for replacing them with others,
    and for initiating the work and rebuilding altars for the occasion,
    sacred to Dea Dia. In expiation for these things a purification
    sacrifice was carried out with an offering of a suovetaurilia [mature
    boar, ram, and bull]. Then in front of the temple cows, with their
    horns bound in gold, were sacrificed to the Dea Dia, a total of two;
    then at the altars built for the occasion sacrifices were made to the
    Gods as listed: to Janus Pater two rams; to Jupiter two castrated
    rams; to Mars Pater Ultor two rams; to the deity, male or female, two
    castrated rams; to the juno of Dea Dia two sheep; to the Virgines
    divae two sheep; to the Famuli divi two castrated rams; to the Lares
    two sheep; to Fons two castrated rams; to Flora two sheep; to
    Summanus Pater two black castrated rams; to Vesta MaterÂ…of the Gods
    and Goddesses two sheep; likewise to Adolenda and Coinquenda two
    sheep; and, before the Caesareum, to the genius of our lord, the
    emperor Severus Alexander, a bull with gilded horns; likewise to the
    twenty divi twenty castrated rams." ~ CIL 6, 2107, lines 2-13; ILS
    5048


    The offering to Summanus would indicate that the storm had come at
    night. The reference to a deity, "male or female," is to the genius
    loci of this sanctuary. Coinquenda is an indigitamentum for the
    felling of trees and Adolenda for the burning of the trees. These
    are indigitamenta for the clearing of a grove, and probably of the
    genius loci. The Fratres Arvales were an imperial invention (See R.
    Syme, (1980) Some Arval Brethren, Oxford p. 106 n.12 for K. Latte's
    recognition of these as antiquarian reconstructions. See G. Dumezil,
    trans. P. Krapp, Archaic Roman Religion, Chicago, 1970; Vol. I, Pp.
    34-38 comparing indigitamenta with imperial apparitores). The
    cultus that it conducted was solely for the health and welfare of the
    emperor and his family. This is reflected above in some of the other
    divinities which are mentioned, i. e. the Virgines divae and Famuli
    divi of the imperial family, as well as the genius of the emperor in
    front of the Caesareum. This collegium did not perform ambularia,
    or bless the fields, or do any of the rites that are erroneously
    associated with them on account of their name. Such rites that were
    related to agriculture were conducted by a special class of priests
    called Semones. These were found at certain other Latin cities, but
    not at Rome. The only reference to "brothers of the fields" that
    date to the Republic is found in Varro where he is specifically
    referring to Romulus and Remus rather than to a priesthood. None the
    less the records of the Fratres Arvales offer important insights into
    Roman ritual because, being invented by Roman antiquarians, they
    contain some of the very oldest prayers, such as the so-called Carmen
    Fratrum Arvalum, and details of ritual procedures that are otherwise
    not reported.


    Our thought for today is from Demophilus, Sentences 45.

    "The Divinity has not a place in the earth more allied to His nature
    than a pure and holy soul."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58885 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 7, 2008.
    C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
     
    Today in Rome :
     
    (Julian day : 2 454 778).
     
    A.d. VII Idus Novembres
    MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
    Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
     
    Day of the week : Veneris dies (Friday).
     
    Lunaris dies: XI.
    Nundinal letter : G.
     
    Hora ortus Solis : 06:49.
    Hora occasus Solis : 16:57.
    Temp. Min. : 8° C.
    Temp. Max. : 19° C.
    Wind on Rome : 6 Km/h.
    Humidity:  64%.
    Weather : Clouds and sun.
     
    Horae diei :
     
    I: 06:49 - 07:41 Lunae hora.
    II: 07:41 - 08:33 Saturni hora.
    III: 08:33 - 09:25 Iovis hora.
    IV: 09:25 - 10:17 Martis hora.
    V: 10:17 - 11:09 Solis hora.
    VI: 11:09 - 12:00 Veneris hora.
    VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Mercurii hora.
    VIII: 12:49 - 13:39 Lunae hora.
    IX: 13:39 - 14:28 Saturni hora.
    X: 14:28 - 15:18 Iovis hora.
    XI: 15:18 - 16:07 Martis hora.
    XII: 16:07 - 16:57 Solis hora.
     
    Horae noctis :
     
    I: 16:57 - 18:07 Veneris hora.
    II: 18:07 - 19:18 Mercurii hora.
    III: 19:18 - 20:28 Lunae hora.
    IV: 20:28 - 21:39 Saturni hora.
    V: 21:39 - 22:49 Iovis hora.
    VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Martis hora.
    VII: 00:00 - 01:08 Solis hora.
    VIII: 01:08 - 02:16 Veneris hora.
    IX: 02:16 - 03:25 Mercurii hora.
    X: 03:25 - 04:33 Lunae hora.
    XI: 04:33 - 05:41 Saturni hora.
    XII: 05:41 - 06:50 Iovis hora.
     

    Valete.
     
    C. Petronius Dexter.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58886 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
    Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae Quiritibus, et omnibus:
    salutem plurimam dicunt: Cetera scire de se Dis immortalibus curae
    esse

    The Comitia Centuriata is called to assemble to vote for the ordinary
    Centuriate magistracies for calendar year ab urbem condita 2762.

    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
    Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 14
    Nov.

    During the Contio the diribitores need to select and announce the
    Centuria Praerogativa.

    Voting will then commence according to this schedule

    07:00 hrs CET 15 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa alone
    begins.
    07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria
    Praerogativa.
    07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Voting by all First Class centuries now
    permitted.
    07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First
    Class centuries.
    07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
    16:00 hrs CET 23 November: All voting ends.

    The diribitores shall provide reports of the progress of the voting
    in accordance with the provisions of the LEX FABIA DE RATIONE
    COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM.

    The magistracies to be filled, and the candidates for these
    magistracies are:

    -----------

    CENSOR (1 opening)

    Publius Constantinus Placidus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=5934

    Titus Iulius Sabinus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8092


    C. Popillius Laenas
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=1781

    -----------

    CONSUL (2 openings)

    M. Iulius Severus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8632

    Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=6159

    -----------

    PRAETOR (2 openings)

    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=2356

    P. Memmius Albucius
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7425

    -----------

    Si Dis placet, quod bonum faustum felixque sit


    The following proposed leges Moravia Iulia are placed before the
    Comitia Centuriata.

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the Lex
    Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum be amended:

    I Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum is
    amended the Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5. B which
    reads:

    "In the case of a magisterial election, voting shall be sequential.

    1. "A century from the first class shall be selected by lot by the
    diribitores to vote first. No century containing only one member
    shall be selected for this purpose. For the first 48 hours of the
    voting period only members of that century shall be permitted to
    vote."

    2.
    "Twenty-four (24) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
    according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
    result no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period."

    3.
    "Forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    rest of the centuries in the first class shall be permitted to vote;
    members of the century selected under B.1 above who have not yet
    voted shall still be permitted to vote."

    4
    "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
    according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
    results no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period."

    5.
    "One hundred twenty (120) hours after the beginning of the voting
    period, everyone who is eligible to vote but has not yet done so
    shall be permitted to vote. All voting shall cease no less than 216
    hours after the beginning of the voting period."


    The Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5.B is hereby
    amended as follows:

    5.B:
    "In the case of magisterial elections, the voting period shall last
    no fewer than 192 hours (8 days), with all centuries casting their
    votes concurrently. Reports of the voting results shall be announced
    sequentially.

    1. "The Diribitores shall select by lot one century from among the
    first class centuries to serve as the Centuria Praerogativa. No
    century containing only one member shall be selected for this purpose.

    2. "Within forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting
    period, the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have
    cast votes thus far in the Centuria Praerogativa, and shall announce
    those results no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the
    voting period.

    3. "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
    the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted
    thus far, and shall announce the results of only the first class
    centuries no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period.

    4. "All voting shall cease after no less than 192 hours (8 days) have
    past and no more than 216 hours (9 days) have past after the
    beginning of the voting period. The Diribitores shall then tally all
    votes cast and within 48 hours later report the results solely to the
    presiding magistrate and to his or her colleague as per 3.F."


    NOTE: The purpose and intend of this proposal is to simplify the
    voting procedure, whereby it shall be less confusing for our voters.
    At the same time it retains the Centuria Praerogativa for augural
    purposes and retains the sequential reporting of results.

    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    II Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis the
    Constitution, Article VI, on Public Religious Institutions, is hereby
    replaced by the following Article VI.

    A. The Religio Romana, defined as the traditional worship of the
    Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova
    Roma.

    B. The sacerdotal responsibilities for the State Religion of
    Nova Roma shall be invested primarily into the Collegium Pontificum
    and the Collegium Augurum.

    1. The Collegium Pontificum shall consist of the Rex and Regina
    Sacrorum, the Flamens, Flaminicas, Pontifices, and the Sacerdotes
    Vestales, co-opted by the Collegium Pontificum itself, under its own
    governing rules. The Collegium Pontificum shall be responsible for
    the conduct and administration of all public religious ceremonies
    other than those rites assigned to the Augurs. To that purpose, the
    Collegium Pontificum may create sacerdotal offices, sodalitates, and
    collegia.

    2. The Collegium Augurum shall consist of all public Augurs who
    are co-opted by the Collegium Augurum itself, under its own governing
    rules. The individual members of the Collegium Augurium shall be
    responsible for instructing and advising curule
    magistrates on performing auspicia on behalf of Nova Roma. In other
    religious ceremonies the Augures shall perform their traditional
    responsibilities. The Collegium Augurum may create sacerdotal offices
    and sodalitates that are specifically related to the conduct and
    administration of its responsibilities.

    C. Additional sacerdotal collegia may be instituted and their
    rules set by the Collegium Pontificum, with the approval of the
    Comitia Centuriata.

    NOTE: The purpose and intent of this amendment is to simplify the
    language of the Constitution, retore a more historical model of the
    Collegia by making them independent of one another, and gives each
    Collegia more flexibility in determining how the institutions of the
    religio Romana should develop. At the same time it places some
    measure of review by the Comitia Centuriata over the decisions of the
    Collegium Pontificum in regard to establishing new sacerdotal
    collegia.

    ____________________

    NOTE: Proposals III through IX concern the Magistrates. These
    proposals amend the Constitution by adding in language that allow the
    Comitia to set additional responsibilities and powers for the
    respective magistrates, or limit these, through passage of leges
    rather than resorting to amending the Constitution. They also allow
    the Comitia to determine and change the number of certain
    magistrates, as needed. This will give us a greater degree of
    flexibility in addressing issues as they arise in the future. These
    proposals will also lead to a more historical model of a
    constitution, since such issues were determined by Comitia and not by
    a Constitution per se. The biggest change comes with the Censors.
    The proposed Lex de censoribus will make this office more historical
    by having two Censores elected together to conduct a census once
    every two years. Historically censores were elected only once every
    five years and held office for only eighteen months. We propose to
    have a one year term and censors elected every other year. Combined
    with the other proposals, which can allow the Comitia to reduce the
    number of magistrates to what is sufficient and needed, the Consuls
    hope to address the continual problem of having too many offices, not
    enough candidates for those offices, and then having magistrates
    elected with no duties assigned to them. In regard to the Censors,
    much of their former duties have been taken over by our Rogatores,
    and the main function of the Censors now is to conduct the biennial
    census. From the census is determined the size of the Senate, and
    the Censors thus retain their powers to adlect new Senators and/or
    remove members of the Senate. By reducing their term to one year,
    which is more than sufficient to complete their duties, we will
    conceivably provide ourselves with additional qualified candidates in
    other offices.


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:


    III Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus is amended the Constitution,
    Article IV.A, paragraph 1, which is:

    IV.A.1: Censor. "Two censors shall be elected by the comitia
    centuriata to serve a term lasting two years, to be elected in
    alternate years so as to have a one-year overlap of terms. They shall
    have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
    in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to engage
    (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
    b. To maintain the album civium (list of citizens), including the
    tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law, and
    other appropriate information regarding them;
    c. To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and appropriate
    information regarding them;
    d. To maintain the album senatorum (list of Senators), including the
    power to add and remove names on that list according to
    qualifications set by law;
    e. To maintain the album equestrium (lists of members of the
    equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on
    that list;
    f. To safeguard the public morality and honor through the collegial
    administering of notae;
    1. A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient to deprive
    that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
    removed;
    2. A nota against a member of the Senate is sufficient to remove that
    individual from the Senate until such time as it is removed.
    g. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit."

    Hereby shall IV.A.1 be amended to:

    IV.A.1: Censor: "In any year following the conduct of a census two
    censors shall be elected by the comitia centuriata to serve a
    collegial term lasting one year in the year following thereafter.
    That is, two censors shall be elected together once every two years.
    They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To conduct the census.
    b. To insure that the Album Civium is updated in accordance with the
    results of the census.
    c. To oversee the Album Senatorum (list of current Senators),
    including the power to add and remove names on that list according to
    qualifications set by law;
    d. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
    in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to
    engage. Their edicts shall be binding upon themselves as well as on
    others.
    e. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit
    f. As conservators of public morality and civic honor, to administer
    notae.

    1. A nota may admonish a citizen for improper conduct, without any
    explicit penalty.
    2. A nota may reassign a citizen to a different tribe, including to
    urban tribes reserved for capiti censi or to the aerari for those
    without a tribe, thus depriving the aerarian citizen of a vote in any
    tribal assembly.
    3. A nota may reassign a citizen to a century in any class, including
    to the last century of the Comitia Centuriata, which is reserved for
    capiti censi.
    4. A nota against a member of the Senate may additionally impose
    ejectio e senatu (removal from the senate).
    5. A nota may only be lifted by the Censors; either those Censors who
    imposed it or their successors.

    g. To conduct the Lustrum as their final official act before leaving
    office.

    h. All official censorial actions must be collegial. That is, both
    censors must agree on any official action. If one censor becomes
    unable to continue to serve in office, the censura (term of office of
    both censors) ends immediately and his or her colleague must resign
    the office of censor."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762. The candidate who is elected to
    serve in the term beginning AUC 1 January 2762 to 31 December 2763
    shall have his term instead designated as lasting from AUC 1 January
    until 31 December 2762. There shall not be an alteration to the
    century points received for this curtailed term, but remain at the
    same amount as though the two-year term had been served.

    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:


    IV Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus is amended the first
    paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 2, which is:

    "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata to
    serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors,
    powers, and obligations:"

    Hereby shall the first paragraph of IV.A.2 be amended to:

    IV.A.2: Consuls: "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the
    Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. Their powers and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Centuriata. In addition the Consuls shall have the following
    honors, powers, and obligations:"

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.


    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    V Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus is amended the first
    paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 3, which is:

    IV.A.3: Praetor. "Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia
    Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the
    following honors, powers, and obligations:"

    Hereby shall IV.A.3 be amended to:

    IV.A.3: Praetor. "A number of Praetors, determined by law, shall be
    elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year.
    The number of praetors, their powers, and their areas of
    responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the Comitia
    Centuriata. In addition the praetores shall have the following
    honors, powers, and obligations:"

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.


    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VI Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibusis amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 4, which is:

    4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aediles). "Two curule aediles shall be
    elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one
    year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To hold Imperium;
    b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
    public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
    public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
    facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law
    (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
    c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
    plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
    d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit.
    e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
    commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
    Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
    Censors."

    Hereby is IV.A.4 amended to IV.A.5 as follows:

    IV.A.5: Aedilis Curulis: "A number of Aediles Curules, determined by
    law, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year. The number of Aediles Curules, their powers, and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Populi Tributa. In addition the Aediles Curules shall have
    the following honors, powers, and obligations:

    a. To administer any funds assigned to him or her by the Senate and
    to see to the maintenance of any real property and/or public
    facilities owned by Nova Roma;
    b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to conduct the public
    games and other festivals and gatherings, and to ensure order at
    public religious events. Their edicts shall be binding upon
    themselves as equally as on others;
    c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
    plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
    d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit.
    e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
    commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
    Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
    Censors."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus shall become
    effective as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.


    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 5, which is:

    IV.A.5: Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). "Two plebeian aediles shall
    be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting one
    year. They must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the
    following honors, powers, and obligations:"

    Hereby shall IV.A.5 be amended to IV.A.6 and its first paragraph is
    amended as follows:

    IV.A.6: Aediles Plebis: "A number of Aediles Plebiss, determined by
    law, shall be elected by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year. The number of Aediles Plebis, their powers, and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Plebis Tributa. In addition the Aediles Plebis shall have
    the following honors, powers, and obligations:"

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis shall become effective
    as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.


    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VIII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 6, which is:

    IV.A.6: Quaestor. "A number of quaestors shall be elected by the
    comitia populi tributa equal to the number of consuls, praetors, and
    aediles to serve a term lasting one year. One quaestor shall be
    assigned to each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such
    cannot be made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall
    have the power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
    allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
    supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
    quaestors assigned directly to the consuls shall supervise the whole
    of the aerarium (treasury), but no funds may be spent without the
    prior approval of the Senate."

    Hereby shall IV.A.6 be amended to:

    IV.A.7: Quaestor. "A number of Quaestors, determined by law enacted
    by the Comitia Populi Tributa, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi
    Tributa to serve a term lasting one year. Quaestors shall be assigned
    duties by the Consuls acting collegially. Quaestors shall have the
    power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
    allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
    supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
    Quaestors assigned directly to the Consuls shall supervise the whole
    of the aerarium (treasury), as well as oversee other Quaestors, and
    ensure that no Nova Roma funds may be spent without the prior
    approval of the Senate and authorization by a curule magistrate.
    (That is, authorization from one of the Consuls, Praetors, or Aediles
    Curules)."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.


    ____________________


    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    IX Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis

    1. In the order of authority among the ordinarii magistrates, the
    Tribuni Plebis shall be placed in fourth position, behind the
    Praetors.

    2. Therefore, the Constitution, Article IV, Section A, Paragraph 7,
    is reassigned as Article IV, Part A, Section 4 with the other
    sections in Part A following in numerical order.

    3. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV, Part A, Section 7, where it begins:

    "Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Five tribunes of the plebs
    shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year."

    Hereby shall IV.A.7 be amended to IV.A.4 as follows:

    "Tribuni Plebis (Tribunes of the Plebeians): Three (3) tribunes of
    the plebs shall be elected by the Comitia Pplebis Ttributa to serve a
    term lasting one year."

    4. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis shall become effective as
    of the Kalends of January AUC 2762 and thus shall apply to those
    individuals who are elected as Tribuni Plebis that same year to begin
    their terms in December AUC 2762.


    Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58887 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: The COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA is CALLED to assemble
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
    Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae Quiritibus, et omnibus:
    salutem plurimam dicunt: Cetera scire de se Dis immortalibus curae
    esse


    The Comitia Populi Tributa is called to vote for the Tribal
    magistrates for calendar year ab urbem condita 2762.

    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
    Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 14
    Nov. Voting will then commence at 07:00 hours (CET) on 15 November
    and will end at 17:00 hours (CET) on 23 November A. U. C. 2761.

    The magistracies to be filled, and the candidates for these
    magistracies are:

    ----------

    AEDILIS CURULIS (2 openings)

    Cn. Iulius Caesar
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7228

    ----------


    QUAESTOR (8 openings)

    Gaius Arminius Reccanellus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7658

    Tiberius Cornelius Scipio
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10231

    Quintus Valerius Poplicola
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=11334

    Titus Flavius Aquila
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10597

    Marcus Valerius Potitus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=11061

    Gaius Petronius Dexter
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=11584

    Lucia Livia Plauta
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=11097

    Lucius Gratius Nerva
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10109

    --------------


    ROGATOR (2 openings)

    Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=257

    Aula Tullia Scholastica
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=6596

    Titus Arminius Genialis
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=4760

    ---------------


    DIRIBITOR (4 openings)

    M. Octavius Corvus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10265

    Marcus Valerius Traianus
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=249

    Gaius Terentius Varro
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=2986

    Annia Minucia Marcella
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=5123

    ---------------


    CUSTOS (2 openings)

    Lucius Salix Cicero
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=1513

    Marcus Lucretius Agricola
    http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7619


    Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.


    ______________________________________


    Also placed before the Comitia Populi Tributa

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the Comitia
    Populi Tributa pass the following lex:


    Lex Moravia Iulia de tributo Virgines Vestales

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de tributo Virgines Vestales is amended the
    Lex Apula de assidui et capiti censi, pars II, by the addition of
    paragraph II.B, which is:

    II.B: "Those appointed as Vestal Virgins by the Collegium Pontificum
    shall be exempt from paying the annual tax and shall retain their
    status as Assidui so long as they remain Vestal Virgins. No special
    conditions shall be placed on Vestal Virgins with regard to their
    placement in centuries and tribes or upon their ability to run for or
    hold office."


    Si Dis placet, quod bonum faustum felixque sit
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58888 From: sixthcenturykatafractos Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    M. Hortensius Ahenobarbo sal.
    Wow, you don't gather any dust.

    Looking good so far but don't cut the tunic too short. A freeman
    civillian tunic should go below the the knees when belted. A miles'
    (soldiers) or a slave's tunic would show the knees.

    Let us know how the olives turn out.

    Optima vale.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem
    plurimam dicit
    >
    > Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin
    >
    > I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the
    spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be
    transferring to a state university where I will take a full second
    year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other
    courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study
    group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly
    Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick
    out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me
    that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are
    learning that the language is more than just something difficult.
    They are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich
    literature that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only
    of our society and history but also of our lives.
    >
    > Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica
    >
    > I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house.
    Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua.
    The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost
    me USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards
    total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--
    and cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my
    ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut
    the cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide
    slit in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a
    tunic. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty
    baggy. I still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher
    so it hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably
    be cut thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so
    baggy. For the state of the current tunica, see:
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Image:Tunica_1.jpg
    >
    > Olivas condio - I am pickling olives
    >
    > The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas
    around the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes,
    dates, figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which
    are decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees
    down the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park.
    We decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did
    so a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many,
    but we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    > After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and
    unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for
    a couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night,
    I took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took
    all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of
    them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I
    found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water
    so that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I
    will have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more
    salt per unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4
    weeks, I will pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong
    brine. After a month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It
    sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know
    how they are.
    >
    > I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that
    others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.
    >
    > Optime valete!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58889 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: The COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA is CALLED to assemble
    Salvete Qurites!

    The following citizens have my support in the bid for each magistracy:

    AEDILIS CURULIS (2 openings)

    Cn. Iulius Caesar

    ----------


    QUAESTOR (8 openings)

    Gaius Arminius Reccanellus
    Tiberius Cornelius Scipio
    Quintus Valerius Poplicola
    Titus Flavius Aquila
    Marcus Valerius Potitus
    Gaius Petronius Dexter
    Lucia Livia Plauta
    Lucius Gratius Nerva
    -------------


    ROGATOR (2 openings)

    Aula Tullia Scholastica
    Titus Arminius Genialis
    ---------------


    DIRIBITOR (4 openings)

    M. Octavius Corvus
    Marcus Valerius Traianus
    Gaius Terentius Varro
    Annia Minucia Marcella

    ---------------


    CUSTOS (2 openings)

    Lucius Salix Cicero
    Marcus Lucretius Agricola




    *****************
    Vale

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

    Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    Civis Romanus sum
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
    ************************************************
    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
    "I'll either find a way or make one"
    ************************************************
    Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
    Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
    ************************************************
    Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
    Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58890 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
    Salvete Quirites!

    The following citizens have my support in the bid for each magistracy:

    CENSOR (1 opening)

    Titus Iulius Sabinus
    -----------

    CONSUL (2 openings)

    M. Iulius Severus
    Marcus Curiatius Complutensis

    -----------

    PRAETOR (2 openings)

    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
    P. Memmius Albucius

    PROPOSALS FOR LAWS

    I also support all proposed changes to laws and the Constitution.

    *****************
    Vale

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

    Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    Civis Romanus sum
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
    ************************************************
    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
    "I'll either find a way or make one"
    ************************************************
    Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
    Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
    ************************************************
    Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
    Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58891 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Reuters: 3D Rome in the Maxentius Era

    Salvete, omnes

    I found this a few minutes ago, Do you suppose someday someone will do such a thing for those of us whose interests lie in the Republic?

    Valete,

    L. Aemilia

     

    ROME (Reuters) - For tourists who struggle to make sense of the ruins around the Roman Forum, a new high-tech show provides a 3D sense of what life was like for plebeians and gladiators in ancient Rome.

    Blending Hollywood animation and video-game technology with Cinecitta studio technicians' versions of ancient frescoes and brickwork, plus academic research, "3D Rewind Rome" sucks the visitor back in time to 310 AD, the reign of Emperor Maxentius.

    In a refurbished theater just off the Colosseum, the visitor center opening to the public on November 20 tries to breathe life into the tourists' experience of Rome's ancient artifacts, which for all their majesty are sorely lacking in orientation.

    "Now all of Rome is at your feet," says Sapientus, the tubby, balding, toga-clad 3D guide to a detailed virtual model of the city, developed by University of Virginia archaeologists.

    Smoke, grime, graffiti and street scenes involving 60,000 virtual characters give visitors a 30-minute taste of what life was probably like in ancient Rome.

    You get a peeping-tom's view of the Vestal Virgins, watch a rowdy Senate debate and see the plebeian district Suburra. There is even a financial crisis that may ring a bell with modern viewers.

    "Oh no! My life savings! I could have earned more by keeping my money under the mattress!" moans Sapientus.

    But the effects are most dramatic in gladiatorial scenes in the Colosseum. A preview audience kitted out with 3-dimensional glasses leapt back when evil gladiator Bestia shoved his sword at them. 

    The combatants were brought to life with "motion capture" technology, using body-sensors on real people at a modern-day gladiatorial school in Rome run by a local historical society.

    Commentators and trumpets bring it to a climax when the audience screams for a thumbs-up or thumbs-down from Maxentius with shouts of "Mitte!" (mercy!) or "Iugula!" (kill him!).

    Archaeological sites in Rome are often unearthed by digging for roadworks or metro lines and Rewind Rome starts with a walk through a building site and frescoed tunnel to the "discovery" of the gladiators' living quarters near the Colosseum.

    Then visitors board a high-tech version of the pulley-system elevators that existed under the floor of the arena and glimpse a tiger and a hunter locked in combat overhead.

    "When the audience watches the show they get a really immersive feeling of how it was like to be in ancient Rome as if you were an actor on the stage of history," said Joel Myers, the managing director of the hi-tech entertainment firm Virtuality.

    The feeling lingered in the streets of present day Rome afterwards, when this visitor, blinking in the sunlight, bumped into two flesh-and-blood gladiators on the corner, taking a cigarette break from posing for tourists at the Colosseum.

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58892 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
    Salve Caeso Fabi,

    Thank you for your endorsement. You set an example we all strive to follow.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


    Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...> writes:

    > Salvete Quirites!
    >
    > The following citizens have my support in the bid for each magistracy:
    >
    > CENSOR (1 opening)
    >
    > Titus Iulius Sabinus
    > -----------
    >
    > CONSUL (2 openings)
    >
    > M. Iulius Severus
    > Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
    >
    > -----------
    >
    > PRAETOR (2 openings)
    >
    > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
    > P. Memmius Albucius
    >
    > PROPOSALS FOR LAWS
    >
    > I also support all proposed changes to laws and the Constitution.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58893 From: Titus Arminius Genialis Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Eleições em Nova Roma
    Salvete
     
    O calendário eleitoral de Nova Roma já está disponível no site, junto com a lista de todos os candidatos!
    E as eleições começam AMANHÃ!
     
    A primeira votação será a respeito de duas leis, as quais restringem enormemente a possibilidade de pessoas de candidatarem ao cargo de edil da plebe, pois cria pré-requisitos difíceis demais para serem alcançados. Outra questão com essas leis é a obrigatoriedade de se realizar uma segunda votação (chamada plebiscitum de consecratione) para se confirmar o resultado da eleição dos cargos plebeus. É uma exigência que sempre houve, e somente para os cargos plebeus.
     
    Essa votação se propõe a revogar essas duas leis, para facilitar e agilizar o processo eleitoral para os cargos plebeus.
     
    As eleições para os cargos propriamente ditos começam dia 9 de novembro, com a Comitia Centuriata e a Comitia Plebis Tributa. Ainda não há data confirmada para a Comitia Populi Tributa.
     
    O calendário e a lista de candidatos está disponível em http://www.novaroma.org/nr/PT:Election_MMDCCLXI_%28Nova_Roma%29
     
    Participem! Exerçam sua cidadania também em Nova Roma!
     
    Valete
     
    TITUS ARMINIUS GENIALIS
    Quaestor
    Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae
    Interpres Linguae Lusitanicae
    Scriba Censoris KFBM
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58894 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus L. Liviae Plautae s.p.d.

        I see the logic in the first proposal; it seems to fit well with the change in the order of the magistracies proposed by our consules. But I just do not know enough about the timing of the votes to be able to comment upon the second proposal. In simple plebeian terms ( ;-) ), what is the practical effect of repealing Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum (Nova Roma) ?

    Optime vale!
     
    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com



    From: Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:42:37 PM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?

    L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

    Now that the excitement about the US elections is over, maybe people
    could take some time to express opinions about my proposal to repeal
    the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum and the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    plebis tributorum.

    The contio on this matter has two more days to go, then on Sunday
    we'll begin voting.

    My appeal can be found on the election page
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Election _MMDCCLXI_ %28Nova_Roma% 29), and
    the details on the two plebiscita to repeal the laws are here:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Election _MMDCCLXI_ %28Nova_Roma% 29/Plebiscitum_ I


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58895 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus M. Hortensiae s.p.d.

        Although I live in the desert and don't mind some dust, you are correct; little dust remains on me most of the time. ;-)

    >Looking good so far but don't cut the tunic too short. A freeman
    >civillian tunic should go below the the knees when belted. A miles'
    >(soldiers) or a slave's tunic would show the knees.

        Not to question your knowledge specifically, but this seems contrary to the other opinions I have received here recently. Could you shed some light on tunic length? Maximas gratias tibi ago!
        I'll be finishing the tunic tonight or tomorrow and will hopefully wear it to our oppidum's ritual and meeting on Sunday.

    Optime vale!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58896 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Round and Round the Merry-Go-Round
    Salve Hortensia,

    <M. Hortensia Ti. Annaeo spd;
    <Vedius and Cassius, whom I'm grateful to
    <for founding Nova Roma, unfortunately never grew. Meaning they refused
    <to learn or read Roman history which would have easily shown how
    <intertwined the Roman republic is with Roman religion.

    Wow! I didn't realize that you were even in NR when Vedius was here. Or that you knew Cassius well enough to know what he reads.
    Vale,
    Diana
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58897 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus L. Liviae Plautae s.p.d.

    >your tunica looks just right (hem apart, but you're going to fix
    >that). Baggy is what it's supposed to look like.

        Thank you! I also figured that, even if it was a bit too baggy, it will be covered by a toga at some point and won't be as visible. But since it seems about right, I'm happy. :-)

    >As to the olives, I never heard of making a side cut in them.

        Many of the recipes for brining (or, as some called them, "Greek style") ripe/black olives called for cutting the side of the olive. I assume it is to allow the brine easier access to the interior so that it cures faster and more thoroughly. I even found a picture of "already brined" olives that obviously had the cuts in them.
     
    >However I did try a recipy similar to yours, with salt only,
    >that requires the brine to be changed just twice.

        My understanding is, the more you change the brine, the less bitter the olives. So, after I change it once (total: 2 weeks in brine), I will taste one. Then I will change it a week later and taste again. Etc. I will change the brine up to 4 or 5 times, depending on how I like them. Then, to store them, they will go in fresh brine (not as strong, I don't think) and go into the refrigerator. Of course, once I bring them out at the December oppidum meeting, I may not have enough to put back in the fridge. ;-)

    Optime vale!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com



    From: Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 6:09:45 PM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Facta mei -- My deeds

    Salve Ahenobarbe,


    A tight tunica would make you look like a slave whose master wanted to
    save fabric.

    Well, I
    hope they turn out well. I've found differenc recipes for olives,
    probably the safest one in order for them not to stay bitter is addind
    soda.
    The olives I picked last November in my aunt's garden are waiting for
    me in a jar at my Budapest home. Maybe I'll dare taste them when I'm back.

    Optime vale,
    L. Livia Plauta

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    <cn.caelius@ ...> wrote:

    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus civibus Novae Romae omnibusque salutem
    plurimam dicit
    >
    > Latinam linguam disco -- I am learning Latin
    >
    > I am taking Latin 101 at a local community college. In the
    spring of 2009, I will take Latin 102. Next fall, I will be
    transferring to a state university where I will take a full second
    year of Latin and then go on to composition, literature, and other
    courses in the language. I have started a reasonably successful study
    group which meets ever Saturday morning. I'm listening to the weekly
    Nuntii Latini podcast to get "an ear" for Latin; I can already pick
    out words and endings. I've had at least one fellow-student tell me
    that he wants to learn to speak Latin fluently, and many others are
    learning that the language is more than just something difficult. They
    are learning that Latin is a beautiful language with a rich literature
    that can add immeasurably to one's understanding not only of our
    society and history but also of our lives.
    >
    > Tunicam facio -- I am making a tunica
    >
    > I bought some linen from a surplus fabric store near my house.
    Along with wool, linen was also a traditional fabric in Roma antiqua.
    The piece of linen I purchased was about 56 inches wide and it cost me
    USD$4 per yard of length (1 yard=about a meter). I bought 3 yards
    total. I measured the distance between my elbows--about 40 inches--and
    cut the remaining 16 inches off one long side. I measured from my
    ankles, up over my shoulders, and down to my ankles again, and cut the
    cloth to that length. I folded it in half and cut a 14 inch wide slit
    in the fold for my head. With a bit of hand-sewing, it became a tunic.
    It's not perfect, but it's not horrible. :-) It's pretty baggy. I
    still have work to do; I'm going to bring the hem up higher so it
    hangs just to my knees when belted. My next tunic will probably be cut
    thinner (not quite the width of my elbows) so as not to be so baggy.
    For the state of the current tunica, see:
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Image: Tunica_1. jpg
    >
    > Olivas condio - I am pickling olives
    >
    > The climate of southern Arizona is similiar to many areas around
    the Mediterranean sea. Therefore, we have olives (and grapes, dates,
    figs, and more). In Tucson, there are many olive trees which are
    decades-old. Taking a walk one morning, we noticed olive trees down
    the street from our house in the parking lot of a business park. We
    decided that we would come back to pick some of the olives. We did so
    a few days ago; it took us about 10 minutes. We didn't get many, but
    we have about 1/3 of a gallon (1.25 liters) of olives.
    > After removing the damaged, bruised, rotten, defective, and
    unripe fruits, we kept the olives in a light brine (salty water) for a
    couple of days until I could make time to process them. Last night, I
    took the olives out of the storage brine and processed them. I took
    all the very dark and/or black olives, made a cut down one side of
    them, and placed them in a stronger brine according to some recipes I
    found online. I weighted them down with a plastic bag full of water so
    that all of the olives were submerged in the brine. Next week, I will
    have to change this brine for a stronger brine solution (more salt per
    unit of water). Every week thereafter, for about 3 or 4 weeks, I will
    pour out the old brine and replace it with fresh strong brine. After a
    month or so, we should have olives that are edible. It sounds like a
    lot of work, but it really isn't. I'll let you all know how they are.
    >
    > I'm just happy about doing these sorts of things. I hope that
    others find them interesting and inspirational. I know I do.
    >
    > Optime valete!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58898 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
    Salve Livia,

    < maybe people
    <could take some time to express opinions about my proposal to repeal
    <the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum and the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    <plebis tributorum.

    I'm interested since I wrote the Lex Moravia (back when I was a Tribune). I couldn't open your link. Why do you want to repeal it? And what will you replace it with? Just curious.
    Diana Octavia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58899 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
    Maior Magistrae spd;
    bene, recte dixit.

    As for 'Acta' Avitus wrote a long note about the appropriate word
    for newspaper...he preferred either 'acta' or 'diurna' as a
    colloquialism but not both. I remember it very well as I toiled
    translating it;-)

    Now as for Chapel: the concise OED says it derives from mediaeval
    Latin : capella and before that Old French. Avitus accepts spoken
    Latin usage to the 18th century and looks to etymology. So this is
    perfect. My town is named after an old Anglican chapel.


    The town was chartered in 1793, I'll ring the historical society, it
    may already have a Latin name from documents.

    many thanks for the help.
    optime vale
    Maior,

    OF. chapele (mod. -elle) :- medL. cappella (dim. of cappa
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58900 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    M. Hortensia Cn. Caelio spd;
    that's true, there is no dust on you. Your cognomen rightly
    should be 'Velox'!

    Fighting off this cold is clouding my mental processes. Nova Roma
    isn't a re-enactment org. If you want a less baggy tunica, tailor
    it; make it to suit you.

    In my group we're going to Castra Romana a re-enactment event so
    we're being historically correct. But as a Nova Roman I'm wearing my
    toga. I had a good discussion with Lentulus about this.

    Now for the toga, which Romans prized and never changed and
    religious dress, yes you must be historically accurate. Thanks the
    gods I don't have to wear an apex! Flaminicas get 3 veils.
    bene vale in pacem deorum
    Maior



    > Although I live in the desert and don't mind some dust, you
    are correct; little dust remains on me most of the time. ;-)
    >
    >
    > >Looking good so far but don't cut the tunic too short. A freeman
    > >civillian tunic should go below the the knees when belted. A
    miles'
    > >(soldiers) or a slave's tunic would show the knees.
    > Not to question your knowledge specifically, but this seems
    contrary to the other opinions I have received here recently. Could
    you shed some light on tunic length? Maximas gratias tibi ago!
    > I'll be finishing the tunic tonight or tomorrow and will
    hopefully wear it to our oppidum's ritual and meeting on Sunday.
    >
    > Optime vale!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58901 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus A. Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.

    >ATS:  And I see you are making good progress in it.  

        Conor. :-)
        I am trying. :-)

    >ATS:  Wonderful!  A fine example to our citizens!
     
        Adsentio.
        I agree.

    >ATS:  Also wonderful!  Remember, though, the Nuntii Latini use a bit of an odd pronunciation

        Yep; caught that already. It's not so bad, even if it's not "classical pronunciation".

    >ATS:  Send him/her to us...While it lasts (maybe one more year, if we are lucky) we do have Sermo Latinus...

        I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have time to take Sermo as well. He's attending community college, working a full-time+ minimum-wage job, etc. But he does seem interested in Nova Roma; I'm going to talk to him about it soon.

    >ATS:  And [learning Latin] is not difficult, either, though one must put one’s mind to it.

        That's the catch: it takes effort. Sure, one can learn a language via exposure and osmosis, but that's difficult to do with Latin, so we learn it in classes and from books. And when people see conjugation matrices and the fact that there are declensions, etc., they run away screaming. Yet, if they just chewed one bite at a time, they'd find it really isn't that difficult.

    >Anyone who can learn such useless nonsense as the
    batting averages of major league
    >ballplayers and rushing yardage of
    football players can surely learn Latin. 


        Sounds like something I would say. :-)

    >
    ATS:  It’s supposed to be baggy, and looks fine in that respect.  It is, however, too long,
    >for it should be above the knees when finished.

        That's what I thought, too, but then there was that other comment which said it should be a bit longer, maybe just below the knees. Comments?

    >You
    have also girt it in a rather Hellenic fashion

        That was the first time I had put it on. ;-) It wasn't even finished; the entire right side was still open, but held together by 3 or 4 single stitches evenly-spaced below the arm to the bottom. Suggests for a "Roman fashion" of girting? Isn't the way in the picture just a function of its hanging naturally?

    >It would
    be easier, and more authentic, to cut the fabric in half vertically and seam
    >it across the shoulders, leaving an aperture for the head than to
    attempt to make a
    >proper slit with a facing.

        I'll probably do that next time. Hmm. I guess I could do it this time, too... Maybe.

    >
    ATS: I leave the olives to you, but I am glad that you are doing these other things...
    >and providing an example to our citizens in particular
    regarding our language. 

        You don't like olives? That's un-Roman! ;-)

        I hope that my simple examples are inspiring to others, as well.

    Optime vale!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58903 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus M. Hortensiae Maiori s.p.d.

    >In my group we're going to Castra Romana a re-enactment event so
    >we're being historically correct. But as a Nova Roman I'm wearing my
    >toga. I had a good discussion with Lentulus about this.
     
        I agree with this. I like to be as traditional as possible while using what modern technology and opportunities exist to further the goals of the organization. For example, linen is traditional, and I live in Arizona where it's pretty warm, so that's what I used. Yet it was made on an automated loom somewhere. No biggie to me. I could also use cotton; although a traditional fabric, it was expensive in ancient Rome. I think it would be fine for a tunica. As for women in togae, I have no problem with it; they originally wore them in the kingdom and early Republic, if I remember correctly. Of course, a woman in a stola and palla has her own look; men don't wear those garments. We are "Nova" Roma, after all, and if we allow and/or support some older practices such as women wearing togas, that's fine by me.
        I will be making a toga after the first of the year. It will most likely also be linen, semi-circular in the Republican style, and the color is undecided (it depends on what the surplus fabric store has ;-) ). Dimensions aren't settled yet, but I think it ends up something like 16 feet by 8 feet. I've glanced at toga sites before, but not recently; I'll do more research before I make one.

    Optime vale!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58904 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

    I hereby announce my intention to convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa
    in order to repeal two laws.

    You will find the full text to be voted on, along with links to the
    laws, at the end of this message, but here is a short explanation.

    One law is the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, that sets requirements
    for candidates to the macistracy of Aedilis Plebis.

    The chronical lack of candidates for the position has, in my opinion,
    amply demonstrated that the current requirements are too restrictive.
    If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.

    The second law to be repealed is Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    plebis tributorum, which requires a Plebiscitum de consecratione, that
    is a second vote, to confirm the candidates for the positions of
    Aediles Plebis and Tribuni Plebis.

    In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly humiliating
    for the plebs.

    Lex Moravia is also the law that requires me to convene the Comitia
    Plebis Tributa twice, instead of just voting on repealing the two laws
    at the same time with the election of plebeian magistrates, because it
    forbids voting on plebiscita at the same time as the annual elections.

    If this law is repealed the Comitia Plebis Tributa will have the same
    right as the two other Comitia, that is of voting on laws at the same
    time as for candidates, and the plebeian magistrates will be elected
    with just one election, like the curule magistrates.

    The contio period starts today, Monday, November 3, at 7:00 Rome time
    (approximately 6 hours after this posting) and ends on Saturday,
    November 8 at 17:00
    Rome time.

    Voting on repealing the two laws starts on Sunday, November 9 at 7:00
    Rome time and ends on Saturday, November 15 at 17:00 Rome time.
    I have to ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and
    Friday, November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.

    Here are the full texts plebeian citizens will be asked to vote on:

    Plebiscitum de lege Arminia abroganda

    We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, approved
    by Comitia Populi Tributa on a.d. IV Non. Iun. ‡ Cn. Salice Cn.
    Equitio cos. ‡ MMDCCLVII a.u.c.
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%
    29).

    The requirements for candidacy to the magistracy of Aedilis Plebis
    will thus be set by the previous Lex Iunia de magistratuum aetate
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    oma%29),
    as amended by Lex Vedia de magistratuum aetate
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    oma%29),
    and Lex Vedia de cursu honorum
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%29
    ).

    Plebiscitum de lege Moravia abroganda

    We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    tributorum, approved by Comitia plebis tributa on a.d. VII Kal. Feb. ‡
    C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ‡ MMDCCLIX a.u.c.
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29)
    thus reverting to the lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis
    tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum, AUC a.d. XV Kal.
    Dec. MMDCCLVI (17 November 2756)
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_pleb
    is_tributis_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29),
    as amended by the lex Arminia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum,
    AUC a. d. IV Non. IUN. MMDCCLVII (2 Jun 2757)
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29).
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58905 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: No opinions about the two laws to be repealed?
    Salvete omnes,
    I just reposted the original announcement about repealing the two laws.
    If clicking the links won't work, please try copying and pasting them.
    Otherwise go to the NR main page, click the "election MMDCCLXXI" link
    under "current events". Have a look at the election page, scroll down
    to where it says "Comitia Plebis Tributa", then click on the
    "plebiscites" link.

    To summarize things very shortly again, repealing the lex Arminia
    serves the purpose of simplifying the requirements for candidacy to
    Aedilis Plebis.

    Repealing the lex Moravia serves the purpose of avoiding the plebs
    having to vote once again to confirm the candidates it has already
    voted once.
    That is, if we repeal the law one election will be enough to elect the
    Aediles and Tribuni plebis.
    If we don't repeal the law we will have to vote again on a plebiscitum
    that says more or less: "we confirm that we want Caius, Titius and
    Sempronius, whom we elected for the position of tribunus plebis, to
    really cover the position of tribunus plebis.".


    This IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED with the proposal by Consul Piscinus to
    reduce the number of Tribunes to three.
    Repealing the lex Moravia doesn't have any effect on the number of
    tribunes.

    Optime valete,
    L. Livia Plauta




    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > M. Hortensia L. Liviae spd;
    > I'm all for a return to historical practice. During the republic
    > there were 2-3 tribunes, so that is a sound change.
    > Maior
    >
    >
    > >
    > > < maybe people
    > > <could take some time to express opinions about my proposal to repeal
    > > <the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum and the Lex Moravia de ratione
    > comitiorum
    > > <plebis tributorum.
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58906 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Request to diribitors
    M. Lucretius Agricola Diribitoribus S.P.D.

    Would the diribitors, Gaius Aemilius Crassus, Sextus Postumius Albus,
    Gaius Iulius Adventor, and Marcus Martianius Lupus kindly use the
    webform to contact the webmasters with their current e-mail addresses?
    We would like to confirm that we have your correct addresses.

    http://www.novaroma.org/bin/contact

    many thanks and optime valete!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58907 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Facta mei -- My deeds
    Maior Ahenobarbo sal;
    no need to do research, our experts have done if for you and put it
    in the Nova Roma wiki with photographs!
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Toga
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Toga_%28Nova_Roma%29
    optime vale
    Maior


    > I will be making a toga after the first of the year. It will
    most likely also be linen, semi-circular in the Republican style,
    and the color is undecided (it depends on what the surplus fabric
    store has ;-) ). Dimensions aren't settled yet, but I think it ends
    up something like 16 feet by 8 feet. I've glanced at toga sites
    before, but not recently; I'll do more research before I make one.
    >
    > Optime vale!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
    > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
    > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58908 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Salvete --

    I have to echo the questions of citizens Aventina and Ahenobarbus. While I see the benefit of repealing the lex in question, I have to wonder what was the history behind passing it in the first place? Is there some way we could get some historical context around this particular Lex?

    Gratias et vale,
    - Q.OS


    Lucia Livia Plauta wrote:

    L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

    I hereby announce my intention to convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa
    in order to repeal two laws.

    You will find the full text to be voted on, along with links to the
    laws, at the end of this message, but here is a short explanation.

    One law is the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, that sets requirements
    for candidates to the macistracy of Aedilis Plebis.

    The chronical lack of candidates for the position has, in my opinion,
    amply demonstrated that the current requirements are too restrictive.
    If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.

    The second law to be repealed is Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    plebis tributorum, which requires a Plebiscitum de consecratione, that
    is a second vote, to confirm the candidates for the positions of
    Aediles Plebis and Tribuni Plebis.

    In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly humiliating
    for the plebs.

    Lex Moravia is also the law that requires me to convene the Comitia
    Plebis Tributa twice, instead of just voting on repealing the two laws
    at the same time with the election of plebeian magistrates, because it
    forbids voting on plebiscita at the same time as the annual elections.

    If this law is repealed the Comitia Plebis Tributa will have the same
    right as the two other Comitia, that is of voting on laws at the same
    time as for candidates, and the plebeian magistrates will be elected
    with just one election, like the curule magistrates.

    The contio period starts today, Monday, November 3, at 7:00 Rome time
    (approximately 6 hours after this posting) and ends on Saturday,
    November 8 at 17:00
    Rome time.

    Voting on repealing the two laws starts on Sunday, November 9 at 7:00
    Rome time and ends on Saturday, November 15 at 17:00 Rome time.
    I have to ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and
    Friday, November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.

    Here are the full texts plebeian citizens will be asked to vote on:

    Plebiscitum de lege Arminia abroganda

    We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, approved
    by Comitia Populi Tributa on a.d. IV Non. Iun. ‡ Cn. Salice Cn.
    Equitio cos. ‡ MMDCCLVII a.u.c.
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma%
    29).

    The requirements for candidacy to the magistracy of Aedilis Plebis
    will thus be set by the previous Lex Iunia de magistratuum aetate
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Iunia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R
    oma%29),
    as amended by Lex Vedia de magistratuum aetate
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R
    oma%29),
    and Lex Vedia de cursu honorum
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma% 29
    ).

    Plebiscitum de lege Moravia abroganda

    We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    tributorum, approved by Comitia plebis tributa on a.d. VII Kal. Feb. ‡
    C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ‡ MMDCCLIX a.u.c.
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t
    ributorum_%28Nova_ Roma%29)
    thus reverting to the lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis
    tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum, AUC a.d. XV Kal.
    Dec. MMDCCLVI (17 November 2756)
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ suffragiis_ in_comitiis_ pleb
    is_tributis_ et_ratione_ comitiorum_ plebis_tributoru m_%28Nova_ Roma%29),
    as amended by the lex Arminia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum,
    AUC a. d. IV Non. IUN. MMDCCLVII (2 Jun 2757)
    (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t
    ributorum_%28Nova_ Roma%29).



    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58909 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Salve Sabine,

    The Lex Arminia de cursu honorum can be found here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

    It's very short. The complete text is:
    --- Begin Text ---
    This lex is intended to bring Nova Roma closer in line with the
    ancient Roman way, and allow better diffusion of Nova Roma to the
    whole world.

    A. A plebeian candidate must spend at least six months in the
    Tribuneship, Quaestorship, Curatorship or Propraetorship to run for
    the aedileship of the plebs.

    B. A current plebeian scriba of one of the current plebeian aediles
    may run for the aedileship without the exigencies of paragraph A. of
    this lex if he proves he was an aedile's scriba for at least six months.
    --- End Text ---

    So then-tribune Faustus was attempting to bring Nova Roma closer to
    ancient practices. But the law has proven to place too much of a
    barrier to candidates for the Plebeian Aedile, and thus tribune Plauta
    has decided that it is better for the Plebeians of Nova Roma if the
    law is repealed.

    The second law can be found here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_plebis_tributis_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_(Nova_Roma)

    It's a fairly long bit of text, so I won't cite it all. The problem
    that tribuna Plauta has with it is the requirement it places on the
    Comitia Plebii Tributa to conduct a second vote in order to confirm
    the tribunes after the same exact comitia has elected them. Now this
    practice *is* in accordance with historical practice, as the Plebs
    would elect their tribunes one day and then confirm them in a
    confirmation election a few days later. But since Nova Roma elections
    take many days to complete it makes things very difficult.

    That, at least, is my understanding of Tribuna Plauta's logic. She's
    certainly able to speak for herself too.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Disinterested Patrician


    "Q. Ovidius Sabinus" <quintus.ovidius@...> writes:

    > Salvete --
    >
    > I have to echo the questions of citizens Aventina and Ahenobarbus.
    > While I see the benefit of repealing the lex in question, I have to
    > wonder what was the history behind passing it in the first place? Is
    > there some way we could get some historical context around this
    > particular Lex?
    >
    > Gratias et vale,
    > - Q.OS
    >
    >
    > Lucia Livia Plauta wrote:
    >>
    >> L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.
    >>
    >> I hereby announce my intention to convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa
    >> in order to repeal two laws.
    >>
    >> You will find the full text to be voted on, along with links to the
    >> laws, at the end of this message, but here is a short explanation.
    >>
    >> One law is the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, that sets requirements
    >> for candidates to the macistracy of Aedilis Plebis.
    >>
    >> The chronical lack of candidates for the position has, in my opinion,
    >> amply demonstrated that the current requirements are too restrictive.
    >> If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    >> will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.
    >>
    >> The second law to be repealed is Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    >> plebis tributorum, which requires a Plebiscitum de consecratione, that
    >> is a second vote, to confirm the candidates for the positions of
    >> Aediles Plebis and Tribuni Plebis.
    >>
    >> In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    >> who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly humiliating
    >> for the plebs.
    >>
    >> Lex Moravia is also the law that requires me to convene the Comitia
    >> Plebis Tributa twice, instead of just voting on repealing the two laws
    >> at the same time with the election of plebeian magistrates, because it
    >> forbids voting on plebiscita at the same time as the annual elections.
    >>
    >> If this law is repealed the Comitia Plebis Tributa will have the same
    >> right as the two other Comitia, that is of voting on laws at the same
    >> time as for candidates, and the plebeian magistrates will be elected
    >> with just one election, like the curule magistrates.
    >>
    >> The contio period starts today, Monday, November 3, at 7:00 Rome time
    >> (approximately 6 hours after this posting) and ends on Saturday,
    >> November 8 at 17:00
    >> Rome time.
    >>
    >> Voting on repealing the two laws starts on Sunday, November 9 at 7:00
    >> Rome time and ends on Saturday, November 15 at 17:00 Rome time.
    >> I have to ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and
    >> Friday, November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.
    >>
    >> Here are the full texts plebeian citizens will be asked to vote on:
    >>
    >> Plebiscitum de lege Arminia abroganda
    >>
    >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, approved
    >> by Comitia Populi Tributa on a.d. IV Non. Iun. ++ Cn. Salice Cn.
    >> Equitio cos. ++ MMDCCLVII a.u.c.
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%>
    >> 29).
    >>
    >> The requirements for candidacy to the magistracy of Aedilis Plebis
    >> will thus be set by the previous Lex Iunia de magistratuum aetate
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R>
    >> oma%29),
    >> as amended by Lex Vedia de magistratuum aetate
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R>
    >> oma%29),
    >> and Lex Vedia de cursu honorum
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%29
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%29>
    >> ).
    >>
    >> Plebiscitum de lege Moravia abroganda
    >>
    >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    >> tributorum, approved by Comitia plebis tributa on a.d. VII Kal. Feb. ++
    >> C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ++ MMDCCLIX a.u.c.
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t>
    >> ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29)
    >> thus reverting to the lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis
    >> tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum, AUC a.d. XV Kal.
    >> Dec. MMDCCLVI (17 November 2756)
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_pleb
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_pleb>
    >> is_tributis_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29),
    >> as amended by the lex Arminia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum,
    >> AUC a. d. IV Non. IUN. MMDCCLVII (2 Jun 2757)
    >> (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    >> <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t>
    >> ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29).
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > --
    > "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58910 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Salve Marine et al --

    So as I understand your explanation, then, the law was enacted in order to bring Nova Roma closer to Ancient Rome in practice. However, as time rolled on it was found to be cumbersome. That certainly seems understandable given the vast distances between Nova Romans in some cases and the length of the election processes.

    On the other side of the coin, have there been any benefits to this lex being in place? Anything we can think of that may be diminished by removing it? At first read and thought it seems a simple repeal, but oftentimes simple can lead to complex.

    Vale et Gratias
    - Q. OS


    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

    Salve Sabine,

    The Lex Arminia de cursu honorum can be found here:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

    It's very short. The complete text is:
    --- Begin Text ---
    This lex is intended to bring Nova Roma closer in line with the
    ancient Roman way, and allow better diffusion of Nova Roma to the
    whole world.

    A. A plebeian candidate must spend at least six months in the
    Tribuneship, Quaestorship, Curatorship or Propraetorship to run for
    the aedileship of the plebs.

    B. A current plebeian scriba of one of the current plebeian aediles
    may run for the aedileship without the exigencies of paragraph A. of
    this lex if he proves he was an aedile's scriba for at least six months.
    --- End Text ---

    So then-tribune Faustus was attempting to bring Nova Roma closer to
    ancient practices. But the law has proven to place too much of a
    barrier to candidates for the Plebeian Aedile, and thus tribune Plauta
    has decided that it is better for the Plebeians of Nova Roma if the
    law is repealed.

    The second law can be found here:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ suffragiis_ in_comitiis_ plebis_tributis_ et_ratione_ comitiorum_ plebis_tributoru m_(Nova_Roma)

    It's a fairly long bit of text, so I won't cite it all. The problem
    that tribuna Plauta has with it is the requirement it places on the
    Comitia Plebii Tributa to conduct a second vote in order to confirm
    the tribunes after the same exact comitia has elected them. Now this
    practice *is* in accordance with historical practice, as the Plebs
    would elect their tribunes one day and then confirm them in a
    confirmation election a few days later. But since Nova Roma elections
    take many days to complete it makes things very difficult.

    That, at least, is my understanding of Tribuna Plauta's logic. She's
    certainly able to speak for herself too.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Disinterested Patrician

    "Q. Ovidius Sabinus" <quintus.ovidius@ onegecko. com> writes:

    > Salvete --
    >
    > I have to echo the questions of citizens Aventina and Ahenobarbus.
    > While I see the benefit of repealing the lex in question, I have to
    > wonder what was the history behind passing it in the first place? Is
    > there some way we could get some historical context around this
    > particular Lex?
    >
    > Gratias et vale,
    > - Q.OS
    >
    >
    > Lucia Livia Plauta wrote:
    >>
    >> L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.
    >>
    >> I hereby announce my intention to convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa
    >> in order to repeal two laws.
    >>
    >> You will find the full text to be voted on, along with links to the
    >> laws, at the end of this message, but here is a short explanation.
    >>
    >> One law is the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, that sets requirements
    >> for candidates to the macistracy of Aedilis Plebis.
    >>
    >> The chronical lack of candidates for the position has, in my opinion,
    >> amply demonstrated that the current requirements are too restrictive.
    >> If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    >> will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.
    >>
    >> The second law to be repealed is Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    >> plebis tributorum, which requires a Plebiscitum de consecratione, that
    >> is a second vote, to confirm the candidates for the positions of
    >> Aediles Plebis and Tribuni Plebis.
    >>
    >> In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    >> who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly humiliating
    >> for the plebs.
    >>
    >> Lex Moravia is also the law that requires me to convene the Comitia
    >> Plebis Tributa twice, instead of just voting on repealing the two laws
    >> at the same time with the election of plebeian magistrates, because it
    >> forbids voting on plebiscita at the same time as the annual elections.
    >>
    >> If this law is repealed the Comitia Plebis Tributa will have the same
    >> right as the two other Comitia, that is of voting on laws at the same
    >> time as for candidates, and the plebeian magistrates will be elected
    >> with just one election, like the curule magistrates.
    >>
    >> The contio period starts today, Monday, November 3, at 7:00 Rome time
    >> (approximately 6 hours after this posting) and ends on Saturday,
    >> November 8 at 17:00
    >> Rome time.
    >>
    >> Voting on repealing the two laws starts on Sunday, November 9 at 7:00
    >> Rome time and ends on Saturday, November 15 at 17:00 Rome time.
    >> I have to ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and
    >> Friday, November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.
    >>
    >> Here are the full texts plebeian citizens will be asked to vote on:
    >>
    >> Plebiscitum de lege Arminia abroganda
    >>
    >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, approved
    >> by Comitia Populi Tributa on a.d. IV Non. Iun. ++ Cn. Salice Cn.
    >> Equitio cos. ++ MMDCCLVII a.u.c.
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma%
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma%>
    >> 29).
    >>
    >> The requirements for candidacy to the magistracy of Aedilis Plebis
    >> will thus be set by the previous Lex Iunia de magistratuum aetate
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Iunia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Iunia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R>
    >> oma%29),
    >> as amended by Lex Vedia de magistratuum aetate
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ magistratuum_ aetate_%28Nova_ R>
    >> oma%29),
    >> and Lex Vedia de cursu honorum
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma% 29
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Vedia_de_ cursu_honorum_ %28Nova_Roma% 29>
    >> ).
    >>
    >> Plebiscitum de lege Moravia abroganda
    >>
    >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    >> tributorum, approved by Comitia plebis tributa on a.d. VII Kal. Feb. ++
    >> C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ++ MMDCCLIX a.u.c.
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t>
    >> ributorum_%28Nova_ Roma%29)
    >> thus reverting to the lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis
    >> tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum, AUC a.d. XV Kal.
    >> Dec. MMDCCLVI (17 November 2756)
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ suffragiis_ in_comitiis_ pleb
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Moravia_de_ suffragiis_ in_comitiis_ pleb>
    >> is_tributis_ et_ratione_ comitiorum_ plebis_tributoru m_%28Nova_ Roma%29),
    >> as amended by the lex Arminia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum,
    >> AUC a. d. IV Non. IUN. MMDCCLVII (2 Jun 2757)
    >> (http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t
    >> <http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Arminia_de_ ratione_comitior um_plebis_ t>
    >> ributorum_%28Nova_ Roma%29).
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > --
    > "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.



    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58911 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Salve Sabine,

    "Q. Ovidius Sabinus" <quintus.ovidius@...> writes:

    > On the other side of the coin, have there been any benefits to this lex
    > being in place? Anything we can think of that may be diminished by
    > removing it?

    None that I can think of, but I'm not really the person to ask. I'm a
    Patrician who makes a habit of avoiding Plebeian electoral contests.
    I hope some of our well established Plebeian leaders will answer you.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58912 From: Q. Ovidius Sabinus Date: 2008-11-07
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Gratias.

    I hope a greater discussion starts, as well. I like to have some context on issues coming up for vote. Thanks for your responses.

    Vale,
    - Q.OS

    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

    Salve Sabine,

    "Q. Ovidius Sabinus" <quintus.ovidius@ onegecko. com> writes:

    > On the other side of the coin, have there been any benefits to this lex
    > being in place? Anything we can think of that may be diminished by
    > removing it?

    None that I can think of, but I'm not really the person to ask. I'm a
    Patrician who makes a habit of avoiding Plebeian electoral contests.
    I hope some of our well established Plebeian leaders will answer you.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS



    -- 
    "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the border.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58913 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    Maior Plautae Marinoque spd:
    my apologies for not following this thread properly

    1.Unless the webmaster objects to opening the cista for the CPT , I
    stick with the mos of republican Rome. The Romans were conservative
    yet pragmatic.
    So what if things are difficult, as I can hear Cordus say.

    Livia, why do you want to overturn the mos of the plebeians? Here are
    both my objections.


    2. And at the same time, so what if we don't fill all the tribunes, at
    one time in Rome there were 2 and 3 tribunes of the plebs, so that's
    fine. At what date did it become 5?
    M. Hortensia Maior




    >
    > Salve Sabine,
    >
    > The Lex Arminia de cursu honorum can be found here:
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)
    >
    > It's very short. The complete text is:
    > --- Begin Text ---
    > This lex is intended to bring Nova Roma closer in line with the
    > ancient Roman way, and allow better diffusion of Nova Roma to the
    > whole world.
    >
    > A. A plebeian candidate must spend at least six months in the
    > Tribuneship, Quaestorship, Curatorship or Propraetorship to run for
    > the aedileship of the plebs.
    >
    > B. A current plebeian scriba of one of the current plebeian aediles
    > may run for the aedileship without the exigencies of paragraph A. of
    > this lex if he proves he was an aedile's scriba for at least six months.
    > --- End Text ---
    >
    > So then-tribune Faustus was attempting to bring Nova Roma closer to
    > ancient practices. But the law has proven to place too much of a
    > barrier to candidates for the Plebeian Aedile, and thus tribune Plauta
    > has decided that it is better for the Plebeians of Nova Roma if the
    > law is repealed.
    >
    > The second law can be found here:
    >
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_plebis_tributis_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_(Nova_Roma)
    >
    > It's a fairly long bit of text, so I won't cite it all. The problem
    > that tribuna Plauta has with it is the requirement it places on the
    > Comitia Plebii Tributa to conduct a second vote in order to confirm
    > the tribunes after the same exact comitia has elected them. Now this
    > practice *is* in accordance with historical practice, as the Plebs
    > would elect their tribunes one day and then confirm them in a
    > confirmation election a few days later. But since Nova Roma elections
    > take many days to complete it makes things very difficult.
    >
    > That, at least, is my understanding of Tribuna Plauta's logic. She's
    > certainly able to speak for herself too.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    > Disinterested Patrician
    >
    >
    > "Q. Ovidius Sabinus" <quintus.ovidius@...> writes:
    >
    > > Salvete --
    > >
    > > I have to echo the questions of citizens Aventina and Ahenobarbus.
    > > While I see the benefit of repealing the lex in question, I have to
    > > wonder what was the history behind passing it in the first place? Is
    > > there some way we could get some historical context around this
    > > particular Lex?
    > >
    > > Gratias et vale,
    > > - Q.OS
    > >
    > >
    > > Lucia Livia Plauta wrote:
    > >>
    > >> L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.
    > >>
    > >> I hereby announce my intention to convene the Comitia Plebis Tributa
    > >> in order to repeal two laws.
    > >>
    > >> You will find the full text to be voted on, along with links to the
    > >> laws, at the end of this message, but here is a short explanation.
    > >>
    > >> One law is the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, that sets requirements
    > >> for candidates to the macistracy of Aedilis Plebis.
    > >>
    > >> The chronical lack of candidates for the position has, in my opinion,
    > >> amply demonstrated that the current requirements are too restrictive.
    > >> If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    > >> will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.
    > >>
    > >> The second law to be repealed is Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
    > >> plebis tributorum, which requires a Plebiscitum de consecratione,
    that
    > >> is a second vote, to confirm the candidates for the positions of
    > >> Aediles Plebis and Tribuni Plebis.
    > >>
    > >> In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    > >> who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly
    humiliating
    > >> for the plebs.
    > >>
    > >> Lex Moravia is also the law that requires me to convene the Comitia
    > >> Plebis Tributa twice, instead of just voting on repealing the two
    laws
    > >> at the same time with the election of plebeian magistrates,
    because it
    > >> forbids voting on plebiscita at the same time as the annual
    elections.
    > >>
    > >> If this law is repealed the Comitia Plebis Tributa will have the same
    > >> right as the two other Comitia, that is of voting on laws at the same
    > >> time as for candidates, and the plebeian magistrates will be elected
    > >> with just one election, like the curule magistrates.
    > >>
    > >> The contio period starts today, Monday, November 3, at 7:00 Rome time
    > >> (approximately 6 hours after this posting) and ends on Saturday,
    > >> November 8 at 17:00
    > >> Rome time.
    > >>
    > >> Voting on repealing the two laws starts on Sunday, November 9 at 7:00
    > >> Rome time and ends on Saturday, November 15 at 17:00 Rome time.
    > >> I have to ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and
    > >> Friday, November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.
    > >>
    > >> Here are the full texts plebeian citizens will be asked to vote on:
    > >>
    > >> Plebiscitum de lege Arminia abroganda
    > >>
    > >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Arminia de cursu honorum, approved
    > >> by Comitia Populi Tributa on a.d. IV Non. Iun. ++ Cn. Salice Cn.
    > >> Equitio cos. ++ MMDCCLVII a.u.c.
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%>
    > >> 29).
    > >>
    > >> The requirements for candidacy to the magistracy of Aedilis Plebis
    > >> will thus be set by the previous Lex Iunia de magistratuum aetate
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R>
    > >> oma%29),
    > >> as amended by Lex Vedia de magistratuum aetate
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_magistratuum_aetate_%28Nova_R>
    > >> oma%29),
    > >> and Lex Vedia de cursu honorum
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%29
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_%28Nova_Roma%29>
    > >> ).
    > >>
    > >> Plebiscitum de lege Moravia abroganda
    > >>
    > >> We, the plebs, repeal the Lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    > >> tributorum, approved by Comitia plebis tributa on a.d. VII Kal.
    Feb. ++
    > >> C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. ++ MMDCCLIX a.u.c.
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t>
    > >> ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29)
    > >> thus reverting to the lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis
    > >> tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum, AUC a.d. XV Kal.
    > >> Dec. MMDCCLVI (17 November 2756)
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_pleb
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_pleb>
    > >> is_tributis_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29),
    > >> as amended by the lex Arminia de ratione comitiorum plebis
    tributorum,
    > >> AUC a. d. IV Non. IUN. MMDCCLVII (2 Jun 2757)
    > >>
    (http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t
    > >>
    <http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_t>
    > >> ributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29).
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > "Quid fine laboramus," asked the soldier building the road to the
    border.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58914 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Five vs Three Tribunes
    Salvete

    In 259 AUC (494 BCE) the Plebeian order won the right to elected their own
    �magistrates� the Tribunes. At first only two were elected but shortly
    thereafter the number was increased to five. By the year 296 AUC (457 BCE
    ) , thirty-seven years after the creation of the Tribunes, the number had
    risen to ten and remain so until the end of the Empire.

    So for most of Roman history they had ten Tribunes.

    I personally believe that five is right number. Tribunes in Rome had to
    stay close to the city. Our Tribunes are spread out over 24 time zones. If
    two Tribunes go on vacation or have to deal with other macro world issues we
    are down to three. Just a few years ago we had five elected tribunes but one
    did almost all the work as a few were MIA for most of the year. Drop the
    number to three and we have the same problem but with out any cushion.

    As a former Tribune I recommend that we keep the five we now have.

    Valete

    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58915 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
    C. Petronius Maiori s.p.d.,

    Cappella, indeed medieval and christian word from cappa (hood), is
    not capella (little capra). ;o)

    In other hand, Avitus' reasons of teaching the medieval or modern
    Latin, in my opinion, is better to have discussions and dialogs
    between modern people speaking Latin, but here in Nova Roma we must
    prefer the classical Latin, the Republican period Latin, and we only
    have to use modern words with modern things when these things were
    unknown by the Romans themselves.

    The thing "computer" was unknown. Either we chose to translate this
    modern thing with a new Latin word like "computatorium",
    "ordinatorium"... or we chose to update an ancient word of a
    calculating "engin" like the ancient "abacus". My own choice is to
    use ancient words updated.

    We might use "raeda" (private chariot) to translate the modern "car".
    In the same way that when French use the word "freins" (brakes) about
    of their cars, while originaly "freins" was the (bits) used in horses
    riding.

    The word cappella (from cappa) was not known by Cicero, Caesar,
    Vergil, Petronius... by none of the Romans writers. But the thing
    designed by chapel was known and called sacellum (diminutive of
    sacrum) or fanulum (diminitive of fanum). In fact a sacellum or a
    fanulum, like templum, was not words appropriate to the Christian
    Church which preferred others, in which the word cappella in the
    medieval period. But the first Christian writers of the dark ages,
    had not other words than the common words and you find under
    their "stylus" the word sacellum, even used by Erasmus. For example
    in this quote: "[1,32] Ne putaris te Christum satis tibi demeriturum,
    si classem miseris in Turcas, si *sacellum* aut monasteriolum
    exstruxeris."

    Optime vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58916 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 8, 2008.
    C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
     
    Today in Rome :
     
    (Julian day : 2 454 779).
     
    A.d. VI Idus Novembres
    MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
    Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
     
    Day of the week : Saturni dies (Saturday).
     
    Lunaris dies: XII.
    Nundinal letter : H.
    Nundina.
     
    Hora ortus Solis : 06:50.
    Hora occasus Solis : 16:56.
    Temp. Min. : 9° C.
    Temp. Max. : 18° C.
    Wind on Rome : 21 Km/h.
    Humidity:  59%.
    Weather : More sun than clouds. Mild.
     
    Horae diei :
     
    I: 06:49 - 07:42 Martis hora.
    II: 07:42 - 08:34 Solis hora.
    III: 08:34 - 09:25 Veneris hora.
    IV: 09:25 - 10:17 Mercurii hora.
    V: 10:17 - 11:09 Lunae hora.
    VI: 11:09 - 12:00 Saturni hora.
    VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Iovis hora.
    VIII: 12:49 - 13:38 Martis hora.
    IX: 13:38 - 14:28 Solis hora.
    X: 14:28 - 15:17 Veneris hora.
    XI: 15:17 - 16:06 Mercurii hora.
    XII: 16:06 - 16:56 Lunae hora.
     
     
    Horae noctis :
     
    I: 16:56 - 18:06 Saturni hora.
    II: 18:06 - 19:17 Iovis hora.
    III: 19:17 - 20:28 Martis hora.
    IV: 20:28 - 21:38 Solis hora.
    V: 21:38 - 22:49 Veneris hora.
    VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Mercurii hora.
    VII: 00:00 - 01:08 Lunae hora.
    VIII: 01:08 - 02:17 Saturni hora.
    IX: 02:17 - 03:25 Iovis hora.
    X: 03:25 - 04:34 Martis hora.
    XI: 04:34 - 05:42 Solis hora.
    XII: 05:42 - 06:51 Veneris hora.
     

    Valete.
     
    C. Petronius Dexter.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58917 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
    C. Petronius L. Liviae s.p.d.,

    > If the law is repealed the requirements for becoming Aedilis Plebis
    > will be the same as for becoming Aedilis Curulis.

    I do not agree. The aediles Plebis must only be into the Plebeian
    order. A Patrician may be Aedilis curulis, but it is not desirable
    that a Patrician becomes Aedilis Plebis.

    In my opinion, Plebeian magistrates must be the less possible. More
    we will have tribunes of the Plebs, more the Patricians will be
    secure and quiet.

    Indeed, among 10 tribunes of the Plebs, you have more chance to have
    one corrupted tribune (and opposed at future rights of the Plebs
    which may emancipate Plebeians from the Patricians, like the
    precedent of the tribune Octavius against the tribune Ti. Gracchus)
    than in 3 tribunes of the Plebs.

    > In my opinion having to vote a second time to confirm the candidates
    > who have already been chosen in the first vote is slightly
    > humiliating for the plebs.

    I am not sure it is humiliating. Anyway, the tribunes of the Plebs
    and the aediles of the Plebs are voted by the Plebeians and Plebeians
    must chose good tribunes and good aediles, in a little number of
    sits, to be more united and more efficient, rather than to feel
    themselves humiliated by twice voting.

    Vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58918 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Reuters: 3D Rome in the Maxentius Era
    P. Memmius Albucius Aemiliae s.d.

    In fact, there are several competing university teams which are
    working in this field.

    One of the most advanced one is the University of Caen (Gallia-France-
    Normandie), leaded by recognized Latinist Pr. Philippe Fleury, which
    has still reconstituted, in 3D, 3/4 of the known buildings under
    Constantine.

    See at :

    http://www.unicaen.fr/services/cireve/rome/pdr_restitution.php?
    fichier=projet

    (you can find normally an English version of this site)


    Vale Aemilia,


    P. Memmius Albucius



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete, omnes
    >
    > I found this a few minutes ago, Do you suppose someday someone will
    do such
    > a thing for those of us whose interests lie in the Republic?
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > L. Aemilia
    >
    >
    >
    > ROME (Reuters) - For tourists who struggle to make sense of the
    ruins around
    > the Roman Forum, a new high-tech show provides a 3D sense of what
    life was
    > like for plebeians and gladiators in ancient Rome.
    >
    > Blending Hollywood animation and video-game technology with
    Cinecitta studio
    > technicians' versions of ancient frescoes and brickwork, plus
    academic
    > research, "3D Rewind Rome" sucks the visitor back in time to 310
    AD, the
    > reign of Emperor Maxentius.
    >
    > In a refurbished theater just off the Colosseum, the visitor center
    opening
    > to the public on November 20 tries to breathe life into the
    tourists'
    > experience of Rome's ancient artifacts, which for all their majesty
    are
    > sorely lacking in orientation.
    >
    > "Now all of Rome is at your feet," says Sapientus, the tubby,
    balding,
    > toga-clad 3D guide to a detailed virtual model of the city,
    developed by
    > University of Virginia archaeologists.
    >
    > Smoke, grime, graffiti and street scenes involving 60,000 virtual
    characters
    > give visitors a 30-minute taste of what life was probably like in
    ancient
    > Rome.
    >
    > You get a peeping-tom's view of the Vestal Virgins, watch a rowdy
    Senate
    > debate and see the plebeian district Suburra. There is even a
    financial
    > crisis that may ring a bell with modern viewers.
    >
    > "Oh no! My life savings! I could have earned more by keeping my
    money under
    > the mattress!" moans Sapientus.
    >
    > But the effects are most dramatic in gladiatorial scenes in the
    Colosseum. A
    > preview audience kitted out with 3-dimensional glasses leapt back
    when evil
    > gladiator Bestia shoved his sword at them.
    >
    > The combatants were brought to life with "motion capture"
    technology, using
    > body-sensors on real people at a modern-day gladiatorial school in
    Rome run
    > by a local historical society.
    >
    > Commentators and trumpets bring it to a climax when the audience
    screams for
    > a thumbs-up or thumbs-down from Maxentius with shouts of "Mitte!"
    (mercy!)
    > or "Iugula!" (kill him!).
    >
    > Archaeological sites in Rome are often unearthed by digging for
    roadworks or
    > metro lines and Rewind Rome starts with a walk through a building
    site and
    > frescoed tunnel to the "discovery" of the gladiators' living
    quarters near
    > the Colosseum.
    >
    > Then visitors board a high-tech version of the pulley-system
    elevators that
    > existed under the floor of the arena and glimpse a tiger and a
    hunter locked
    > in combat overhead.
    >
    > "When the audience watches the show they get a really immersive
    feeling of
    > how it was like to be in ancient Rome as if you were an actor on
    the stage
    > of history," said Joel Myers, the managing director of the hi-tech
    > entertainment firm Virtuality.
    >
    > The feeling lingered in the streets of present day Rome afterwards,
    when
    > this visitor, blinking in the sunlight, bumped into two flesh-and-
    blood
    > gladiators on the corner, taking a cigarette break from posing for
    tourists
    > at the Colosseum.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58919 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Greetings and Introduction
    A. Sergius Cincinnatus Quiritibus Omnibus S.P.D.

    Salvete! It is my honor to say that recently I was given full
    citizenship status within Nova Roma. This is indeed my first post on
    the main list, but I have been, for lack of a better term, 'lurking'
    here to gain insight and take in as much as possible. I will just say
    that it's been more...interesting as of late.

    I am a proud citizen of the America Austrorientalis province, more
    specifically in Florida. I am currently working toward a degree in
    Greek and Latin, which will be finished by August. I am very excited
    to be here as I have always been a fan of Rome and her culture, and it
    just overwhelms me that there is such a place as this full of
    like-minded individuals, who are just as eager and interested,
    probably even more so!, as me. I look forward to doing everything I
    can for the betterment and advancement of the Res Publica and to
    working with you all.

    Optime valete!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58920 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and Introduction
    Cn. Lentulus A. Sergio sal.


    Congratulations for your full citizenship! Do not forget to vote in the upcoming NR elections!

    Are you there in the full Latin mailinglist?

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma-Latina/


    Scopri la community di Io fotografo e video
    Il nuovo corso di Gazzetta dello sport per diventare veri fotografi!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58921 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
    Salve Aule Sergi,

    "A. Sergius Cincinnatus" writes:

    > Salvete! It is my honor to say that recently I was given full
    > citizenship status within Nova Roma.

    Welcome to Nova Roma. Congratulations.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58922 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble Changes in the number
     T. Flavius Aquila tribunus plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.
    Salvete Quirites,
     
    What do you think about this change ? I am surprised to find this change in the agenda for the Comitia Centuriata .
    Where does this come from ? As far as I know , we Tribunes have not been involved and I for sure will not support it !
     
    I will vote against it and call upon you to follow my example, especially if you are of Plebeian Order.
     
    I am not willing to have the numbers of Tribuni Plebi reduced to 3  tribunes only.

    I will not vote to diminish our power.
    Would our ancestors have supported this kind of amendment ? No !
     
    Optime valete
    Titus Flavius Aquila
    Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
    >
    > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
    >
    > IX Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis
    >
    > 1. In the order of authority among the ordinarii magistrates, the
    > Tribuni Plebis shall be placed in fourth position, behind the
    > Praetors.
    >
    > 2. Therefore, the Constitution, Article IV, Section A, Paragraph 7,
    > is reassigned as Article IV, Part A, Section 4 with the other
    > sections in Part A following in numerical order.
    >
    > 3. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis is amended the
    > Constitution, Article IV, Part A, Section 7, where it begins:
    >
    > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Five tribunes of the plebs
    > shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa
    to serve a term
    > lasting one year."
    >
    > Hereby shall IV.A.7 be amended to IV.A.4 as follows:
    >
    > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribunes of the Plebeians): Three (3) tribunes of
    > the plebs shall be elected by the Comitia Pplebis Ttributa to serve a
    > term lasting one year."
    >
    > 4. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis shall become effective as
    > of the Kalends of January AUC 2762 and thus shall apply to those
    > individuals who are elected as Tribuni Plebis that same year to begin
    > their terms in December AUC 2762.
    >
    > Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.
    >



    Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@...>
    An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Gesendet: Freitag, den 7. November 2008, 17:58:10 Uhr
    Betreff: [Nova-Roma] The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble

    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
    Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae Quiritibus, et omnibus:
    salutem plurimam dicunt: Cetera scire de se Dis immortalibus curae
    esse

    The Comitia Centuriata is called to assemble to vote for the ordinary
    Centuriate magistracies for calendar year ab urbem condita 2762.

    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
    Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 14
    Nov.

    During the Contio the diribitores need to select and announce the
    Centuria Praerogativa.

    Voting will then commence according to this schedule

    07:00 hrs CET 15 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa alone
    begins.
    07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria
    Praerogativa.
    07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Voting by all First Class centuries now
    permitted.
    07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First
    Class centuries.
    07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
    16:00 hrs CET 23 November: All voting ends.

    The diribitores shall provide reports of the progress of the voting
    in accordance with the provisions of the LEX FABIA DE RATIONE
    COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM.

    The magistracies to be filled, and the candidates for these
    magistracies are:

    -----------

    CENSOR (1 opening)

    Publius Constantinus Placidus
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 5934

    Titus Iulius Sabinus
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 8092

    C. Popillius Laenas
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 1781

    -----------

    CONSUL (2 openings)

    M. Iulius Severus
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 8632

    Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 6159

    -----------

    PRAETOR (2 openings)

    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 2356

    P. Memmius Albucius
    http://www.novaroma .org/civitas/ album?id= 7425

    -----------

    Si Dis placet, quod bonum faustum felixque sit

    The following proposed leges Moravia Iulia are placed before the
    Comitia Centuriata.

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the Lex
    Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum be amended:

    I Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum is
    amended the Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5. B which
    reads:

    "In the case of a magisterial election, voting shall be sequential.

    1. "A century from the first class shall be selected by lot by the
    diribitores to vote first. No century containing only one member
    shall be selected for this purpose. For the first 48 hours of the
    voting period only members of that century shall be permitted to
    vote."

    2.
    "Twenty-four (24) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
    according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
    result no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period."

    3.
    "Forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    rest of the centuries in the first class shall be permitted to vote;
    members of the century selected under B.1 above who have not yet
    voted shall still be permitted to vote."

    4
    "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
    diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
    according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
    results no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period."

    5.
    "One hundred twenty (120) hours after the beginning of the voting
    period, everyone who is eligible to vote but has not yet done so
    shall be permitted to vote. All voting shall cease no less than 216
    hours after the beginning of the voting period."


    The Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5.B is hereby
    amended as follows:

    5.B:
    "In the case of magisterial elections, the voting period shall last
    no fewer than 192 hours (8 days), with all centuries casting their
    votes concurrently. Reports of the voting results shall be announced
    sequentially.

    1. "The Diribitores shall select by lot one century from among the
    first class centuries to serve as the Centuria Praerogativa. No
    century containing only one member shall be selected for this purpose.

    2. "Within forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting
    period, the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have
    cast votes thus far in the Centuria Praerogativa, and shall announce
    those results no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the
    voting period.

    3. "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
    the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted
    thus far, and shall announce the results of only the first class
    centuries no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
    period.

    4. "All voting shall cease after no less than 192 hours (8 days) have
    past and no more than 216 hours (9 days) have past after the
    beginning of the voting period. The Diribitores shall then tally all
    votes cast and within 48 hours later report the results solely to the
    presiding magistrate and to his or her colleague as per 3.F."

    NOTE: The purpose and intend of this proposal is to simplify the
    voting procedure, whereby it shall be less confusing for our voters.
    At the same time it retains the Centuria Praerogativa for augural
    purposes and retains the sequential reporting of results.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    II Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis the
    Constitution, Article VI, on Public Religious Institutions, is hereby
    replaced by the following Article VI.

    A. The Religio Romana, defined as the traditional worship of the
    Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova
    Roma.

    B. The sacerdotal responsibilities for the State Religion of
    Nova Roma shall be invested primarily into the Collegium Pontificum
    and the Collegium Augurum.

    1. The Collegium Pontificum shall consist of the Rex and Regina
    Sacrorum, the Flamens, Flaminicas, Pontifices, and the Sacerdotes
    Vestales, co-opted by the Collegium Pontificum itself, under its own
    governing rules. The Collegium Pontificum shall be responsible for
    the conduct and administration of all public religious ceremonies
    other than those rites assigned to the Augurs. To that purpose, the
    Collegium Pontificum may create sacerdotal offices, sodalitates, and
    collegia.

    2. The Collegium Augurum shall consist of all public Augurs who
    are co-opted by the Collegium Augurum itself, under its own governing
    rules. The individual members of the Collegium Augurium shall be
    responsible for instructing and advising curule
    magistrates on performing auspicia on behalf of Nova Roma. In other
    religious ceremonies the Augures shall perform their traditional
    responsibilities. The Collegium Augurum may create sacerdotal offices
    and sodalitates that are specifically related to the conduct and
    administration of its responsibilities.

    C. Additional sacerdotal collegia may be instituted and their
    rules set by the Collegium Pontificum, with the approval of the
    Comitia Centuriata.

    NOTE: The purpose and intent of this amendment is to simplify the
    language of the Constitution, retore a more historical model of the
    Collegia by making them independent of one another, and gives each
    Collegia more flexibility in determining how the institutions of the
    religio Romana should develop. At the same time it places some
    measure of review by the Comitia Centuriata over the decisions of the
    Collegium Pontificum in regard to establishing new sacerdotal
    collegia.

    ____________ ________

    NOTE: Proposals III through IX concern the Magistrates. These
    proposals amend the Constitution by adding in language that allow the
    Comitia to set additional responsibilities and powers for the
    respective magistrates, or limit these, through passage of leges
    rather than resorting to amending the Constitution. They also allow
    the Comitia to determine and change the number of certain
    magistrates, as needed. This will give us a greater degree of
    flexibility in addressing issues as they arise in the future. These
    proposals will also lead to a more historical model of a
    constitution, since such issues were determined by Comitia and not by
    a Constitution per se. The biggest change comes with the Censors.
    The proposed Lex de censoribus will make this office more historical
    by having two Censores elected together to conduct a census once
    every two years. Historically censores were elected only once every
    five years and held office for only eighteen months. We propose to
    have a one year term and censors elected every other year. Combined
    with the other proposals, which can allow the Comitia to reduce the
    number of magistrates to what is sufficient and needed, the Consuls
    hope to address the continual problem of having too many offices, not
    enough candidates for those offices, and then having magistrates
    elected with no duties assigned to them. In regard to the Censors,
    much of their former duties have been taken over by our Rogatores,
    and the main function of the Censors now is to conduct the biennial
    census. From the census is determined the size of the Senate, and
    the Censors thus retain their powers to adlect new Senators and/or
    remove members of the Senate. By reducing their term to one year,
    which is more than sufficient to complete their duties, we will
    conceivably provide ourselves with additional qualified candidates in
    other offices.

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    III Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus

    By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus is amended the Constitution,
    Article IV.A, paragraph 1, which is:

    IV.A.1: Censor. "Two censors shall be elected by the comitia
    centuriata to serve a term lasting two years, to be elected in
    alternate years so as to have a one-year overlap of terms. They shall
    have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
    in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to engage
    (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
    b. To maintain the album civium (list of citizens), including the
    tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law, and
    other appropriate information regarding them;
    c. To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and appropriate
    information regarding them;
    d. To maintain the album senatorum (list of Senators), including the
    power to add and remove names on that list according to
    qualifications set by law;
    e. To maintain the album equestrium (lists of members of the
    equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on
    that list;
    f. To safeguard the public morality and honor through the collegial
    administering of notae;
    1. A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient to deprive
    that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
    removed;
    2. A nota against a member of the Senate is sufficient to remove that
    individual from the Senate until such time as it is removed.
    g. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit."

    Hereby shall IV.A.1 be amended to:

    IV.A.1: Censor: "In any year following the conduct of a census two
    censors shall be elected by the comitia centuriata to serve a
    collegial term lasting one year in the year following thereafter.
    That is, two censors shall be elected together once every two years.
    They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To conduct the census.
    b. To insure that the Album Civium is updated in accordance with the
    results of the census.
    c. To oversee the Album Senatorum (list of current Senators),
    including the power to add and remove names on that list according to
    qualifications set by law;
    d. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
    in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to
    engage. Their edicts shall be binding upon themselves as well as on
    others.
    e. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit
    f. As conservators of public morality and civic honor, to administer
    notae.

    1. A nota may admonish a citizen for improper conduct, without any
    explicit penalty.
    2. A nota may reassign a citizen to a different tribe, including to
    urban tribes reserved for capiti censi or to the aerari for those
    without a tribe, thus depriving the aerarian citizen of a vote in any
    tribal assembly.
    3. A nota may reassign a citizen to a century in any class, including
    to the last century of the Comitia Centuriata, which is reserved for
    capiti censi.
    4. A nota against a member of the Senate may additionally impose
    ejectio e senatu (removal from the senate).
    5. A nota may only be lifted by the Censors; either those Censors who
    imposed it or their successors.

    g. To conduct the Lustrum as their final official act before leaving
    office.

    h. All official censorial actions must be collegial. That is, both
    censors must agree on any official action. If one censor becomes
    unable to continue to serve in office, the censura (term of office of
    both censors) ends immediately and his or her colleague must resign
    the office of censor."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762. The candidate who is elected to
    serve in the term beginning AUC 1 January 2762 to 31 December 2763
    shall have his term instead designated as lasting from AUC 1 January
    until 31 December 2762. There shall not be an alteration to the
    century points received for this curtailed term, but remain at the
    same amount as though the two-year term had been served.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    IV Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus is amended the first
    paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 2, which is:

    "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata to
    serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors,
    powers, and obligations: "

    Hereby shall the first paragraph of IV.A.2 be amended to:

    IV.A.2: Consuls: "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the
    Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. Their powers and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Centuriata. In addition the Consuls shall have the following
    honors, powers, and obligations: "

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    V Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus is amended the first
    paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 3, which is:

    IV.A.3: Praetor. "Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia
    Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the
    following honors, powers, and obligations: "

    Hereby shall IV.A.3 be amended to:

    IV.A.3: Praetor. "A number of Praetors, determined by law, shall be
    elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year.
    The number of praetors, their powers, and their areas of
    responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the Comitia
    Centuriata. In addition the praetores shall have the following
    honors, powers, and obligations: "

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VI Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibusis amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 4, which is:

    4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aediles). "Two curule aediles shall be
    elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one
    year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
    a. To hold Imperium;
    b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
    public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
    public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
    facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law
    (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
    c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
    plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
    d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit.
    e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
    commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
    Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
    Censors."

    Hereby is IV.A.4 amended to IV.A.5 as follows:

    IV.A.5: Aedilis Curulis: "A number of Aediles Curules, determined by
    law, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year. The number of Aediles Curules, their powers, and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Populi Tributa. In addition the Aediles Curules shall have
    the following honors, powers, and obligations:

    a. To administer any funds assigned to him or her by the Senate and
    to see to the maintenance of any real property and/or public
    facilities owned by Nova Roma;
    b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to conduct the public
    games and other festivals and gatherings, and to ensure order at
    public religious events. Their edicts shall be binding upon
    themselves as equally as on others;
    c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
    plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
    d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
    other tasks, as they shall see fit.
    e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
    commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
    Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
    Censors."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus shall become
    effective as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 5, which is:

    IV.A.5: Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). "Two plebeian aediles shall
    be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting one
    year. They must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the
    following honors, powers, and obligations: "

    Hereby shall IV.A.5 be amended to IV.A.6 and its first paragraph is
    amended as follows:

    IV.A.6: Aediles Plebis: "A number of Aediles Plebiss, determined by
    law, shall be elected by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year. The number of Aediles Plebis, their powers, and
    their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
    Comitia Plebis Tributa. In addition the Aediles Plebis shall have
    the following honors, powers, and obligations: "

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis shall become effective
    as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    VIII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus

    1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV.A, section 6, which is:

    IV.A.6: Quaestor. "A number of quaestors shall be elected by the
    comitia populi tributa equal to the number of consuls, praetors, and
    aediles to serve a term lasting one year. One quaestor shall be
    assigned to each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such
    cannot be made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall
    have the power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
    allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
    supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
    quaestors assigned directly to the consuls shall supervise the whole
    of the aerarium (treasury), but no funds may be spent without the
    prior approval of the Senate."

    Hereby shall IV.A.6 be amended to:

    IV.A.7: Quaestor. "A number of Quaestors, determined by law enacted
    by the Comitia Populi Tributa, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi
    Tributa to serve a term lasting one year. Quaestors shall be assigned
    duties by the Consuls acting collegially. Quaestors shall have the
    power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
    allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
    supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
    Quaestors assigned directly to the Consuls shall supervise the whole
    of the aerarium (treasury), as well as oversee other Quaestors, and
    ensure that no Nova Roma funds may be spent without the prior
    approval of the Senate and authorization by a curule magistrate.
    (That is, authorization from one of the Consuls, Praetors, or Aediles
    Curules)."

    2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus shall become effective as of
    the Kalends of January AUC 2762.

    ____________ ________

    Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?

    Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
    Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:

    IX Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis

    1. In the order of authority among the ordinarii magistrates, the
    Tribuni Plebis shall be placed in fourth position, behind the
    Praetors.

    2. Therefore, the Constitution, Article IV, Section A, Paragraph 7,
    is reassigned as Article IV, Part A, Section 4 with the other
    sections in Part A following in numerical order.

    3. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis is amended the
    Constitution, Article IV, Part A, Section 7, where it begins:

    "Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Five tribunes of the plebs
    shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term
    lasting one year."

    Hereby shall IV.A.7 be amended to IV.A.4 as follows:

    "Tribuni Plebis (Tribunes of the Plebeians): Three (3) tribunes of
    the plebs shall be elected by the Comitia Pplebis Ttributa to serve a
    term lasting one year."

    4. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis shall become effective as
    of the Kalends of January AUC 2762 and thus shall apply to those
    individuals who are elected as Tribuni Plebis that same year to begin
    their terms in December AUC 2762.

    Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58923 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: a. d. VI Eidus Novembris: Mundus patet
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
    plurimam dicit: Di vos servent cum vester.

    Hodie est ante diem VI Eidus Novembris; haec dies comitialis et
    religiosum est: Mania; mundus patet.

    "When the mundus is opened, the doorway is opened on the gloom of the
    infernal Gods (Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.16.18)."

    Today is the third time in the year that the mundus is opened, the
    other dates being 24 Aug. and 5 Oct. The mundus was a round pit at
    the center of the Roma quadrata on the Palatine Hill. Its concave
    bottom, according to Cato, mirrored the arch of the sky above (Festus
    1, c). It was believed to have been covered by a stone and opened
    only on these three days of the year (Festus s. v. lapis manalis;
    Ateius Capito in Festus 154; Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.16.17). When
    opened, fruits of the earth are offered to Proserpina and Dis Pater
    in thanks for allowing the Manes to roam the earth on this night. On
    these nights the Manes are available for consultations. And thus the
    Mania is celebrated with offerings for the dead. For this reason,
    too, the day is regarded as religiousum where it is proper to offer
    to the Lares and household gods, as well as to the Manes in general
    and to the Di infernes, but it is improper to offer to the celestial
    Gods. Therefore it is also a day on which no marriages should be
    performed.


    AUC 690 / 63 BCE Cicero delivers his condemnation of Catalina before
    the Senate

    "When, O Catiline, do you mean to cease abusing our patience? How
    long is that madness of yours still to mock us? When is there to be
    an end of that unbridled audacity of yours, swaggering about as it
    does now? Do not the nightly guards placed on the Palatine Hill -do
    not the watches posted throughout the city--does not the alarm of the
    people, and the union of all good men--does not the precaution taken
    of assembling the senate in this most defensible place--do not the
    looks and countenances of this venerable body here present, have any
    effect upon you? Do you not feel that your plans are detected? Do you
    not see that your conspiracy is already arrested and rendered
    powerless by the knowledge which every one here possesses of it? What
    is there that you did last night, what the night before-- where is it
    that you were--who was there that you summoned to meet you - what
    design was there which was adopted by you, with which you think that
    any one of us is unacquainted?

    "Shame on the age and on its principles! The senate is aware of these
    things; the consul sees them; and yet this man lives. Lives! aye, he
    comes even into the senate. He takes a part in the public
    deliberations; he is watching and marking down and checking off for
    slaughter every individual among us. And we, gallant men that we are,
    think that we are doing our duty to the republic if we keep out of
    the way of his frenzied attacks. You ought, O Catiline, long ago to
    have been led to execution by command of the consul. That destruction
    which you have been long plotting against us ought to have already
    fallen on your own head.

    "What? Did not that most illustrious man, Publius Scipio, the
    Pontifex Maximus, in his capacity of a private citizen, put to death
    Tiberius Gracchus, though but slightly undermining the constitution?
    And shall we, who are the consuls, tolerate Catiline, openly desirous
    to destroy the whole world with fire and slaughter? For I pass over
    older instances, such as how Caius Servilius Ahala with his own hand
    slew Spurius Maelius when plotting a revolution in the state. There
    was--there was once such virtue in this republic, that brave men
    would repress mischievous citizens with severer chastisement than the
    most bitter enemy. For we have a resolution of the senate, a
    formidable and authoritative decree against you, O Catiline; the
    wisdom of the republic is not at fault, nor the dignity of this
    senatorial body. We, we alone,--I say it openly, --we, the consuls,
    are waiting in our duty."


    AUC 1147 / 392 CE Theodosius bans lararium rites and sacrifices.

    "No person at all, whatever class or order of men or office, whether
    currently in power or having completed office, whether powerful by
    chance of birth or humble in class, legal status, and wealth, shall
    sacrifice an innocent victim to insensate images in any place or in
    any city; nor shall any one by private sacrifice worship his
    household Lar with fire, his Genius with wine, nor his Penates with
    incense, nor by lighting candles, burning incense, or hanging wreaths
    for them. ... However if anyone, worshiping with incense, should
    venerate images made by human hand and destined to suffer the ravage
    of time, or should he, suddenly filled with awe of what he himself
    has made, seeks to honor them either by adorning a tree in garlands
    with sacred ribbons, by erecting an altar of turf, or attempt to give
    an offering, however small, though it is still an insult to religion,
    since he is guilty of the violation of (Christian) religion he shall
    forfeit his house and his holdings in which he is proved to have been
    a slave to heathen superstition. For we decree that all places that
    prove to have reeked with the smell of incense shall be united with
    our treasury, if they are shown to have belonged by law to those
    burning incense." ~ Codex Theodosi 16.10.12


    Our thought for today is from Demophilus, Pythagorean Sentences 6:

    "Divinity does not principally esteem the tongue, but the deeds of
    the wise; for a wise man, even when he is silent, honors Divinity."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58924 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: COMITIA CENTURIATA schedule change
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Quiritibus s. p. d.

    The posted voting schedule:

    > 07:00 hrs CET 15 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa
    alone
    > begins.
    > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria
    > Praerogativa.
    > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Voting by all First Class centuries now
    > permitted.
    > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First
    > Class centuries.
    > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
    > 16:00 hrs CET 23 November: All voting ends.
    >

    ... is extended to 17:00 hrs CET on 24 November A. U. C. 2761.

    For NEW VOTERS, you will not be in a first class century, and
    therefore if you vote before 20 November your vote will not be
    counted in the Comitia Centuriata. You could vote earlier in the
    Comitia Populi and Comitia Plebis. (This sequential voting in the
    Comitia Centuriata is one of the things we are trying to simplify).

    FYI

    Nova Roma uses the time in Roma, Italia as its official time; that is
    Central European Time (CET). Therefore 07:00 CET is...

    Tokyo 14.00 hrs
    Bucharest 08.00 hrs
    Rio de Janiero 02.00 hrs
    New York, NY 01.00 hrs
    Mexico City 00.00 hrs
    Vancouver, Canada 22.00 hrs (the day prior)


    Voting concludes at 17.00 hours CET (Roma), which is:

    Tokyo 00.00 hrs (25 Nov)
    Bucharest 18.00 hrs
    Rio de Janiero 12.00 hrs
    New York, NY 11.00 hrs
    Mexico City 10.00 hrs
    Vancouver, Canada 08.00 hrs
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58925 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA Schedule change
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Quiritibus s. p. d.

    The posted voting schedule:

    > The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
    > Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 14
    > Nov. Voting will then commence at 07:00 hours (CET) on 15 November
    > and will end at 17:00 hours (CET) on 23 November A. U. C. 2761.
    >
    ... is extended to 17:00 hrs CET on 24 November A. U. C. 2761.


    FYI

    Nova Roma uses the time in Roma, Italia as its official time; that is
    Central European Time (CET). Therefore 07:00 CET is...

    Tokyo 14.00 hrs
    Bucharest 08.00 hrs
    Rio de Janiero 02.00 hrs
    New York, NY 01.00 hrs
    Mexico City 00.00 hrs
    Vancouver, Canada 22.00 hrs (the day prior)


    Voting concludes at 17.00 hours CET (Roma), which is:

    Tokyo 00.00 hrs (25 Nov)
    Bucharest 18.00 hrs
    Rio de Janiero 12.00 hrs
    New York, NY 11.00 hrs
    Mexico City 10.00 hrs
    Vancouver, Canada 08.00 hrs
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58926 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Councils ban use of Latin terms
    Avete Omnes;

    An unfortunate bit of news from Britannia:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7705922.stm

    --
    =========================================
    In amicitia quod fides -
    Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
    Senator et Custode
    Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

    Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus

    Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

    http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
    http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
    http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
    http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
    http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
    --
    May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
    May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
    May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58927 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Three Tribunes
    Salvete Quirites

    While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think that
    the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
    objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's history
    very well.

    I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was when
    Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of Tribuni
    Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians, specifically to
    weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical system we
    have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
    intercessio.

    Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of the
    Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This again is
    ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting system,
    you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have over
    their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has actually
    been reduced in its authority over the years.

    Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis below
    the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that in
    order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as Tribunus.
    How historical is that?

    There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role for
    our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
    Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.


    Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five Tribuni,
    we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time I was
    Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the year.
    That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did well
    without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have essentially
    had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a buffer by
    having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
    fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with in
    having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase the
    number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course not.


    During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and former
    Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a former
    Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in attaining
    enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
    election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices. And
    only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the lower
    magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
    individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things running
    in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the Conventus
    that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make our
    administration more efficient and our elections more competitive. The
    issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a number of
    current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were given an
    opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into separate
    measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended to
    serve the same purposes.

    I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make the
    election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get better
    qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a problem
    to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office uncontested.
    We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to continue.
    We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible Tribunes. What
    we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
    important position. Competitive elections improves the process by which
    we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as well,
    since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people will
    instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where more
    people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become more
    competitive.

    For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
    administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered the
    proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
    measures.

    Valete optime

    Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus

    Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
    Senator Tribunicius
    Pontifex Maximus
    Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
    Flamen Carmentalis
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58928 From: Lyn Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Re: Councils ban use of Latin terms

    Ave, Piperbarbe, et gratias tibi ago.

     

    Baffling, that political correctness should strike at one of the most clearly politically correct – entirely neutral – things we have, the beautiful Latin language. Sad.

     

    Vale,

    L. Aemilia Mamerca

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
    Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:24 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Councils ban use of Latin terms

     

    Avete Omnes;

    An unfortunate bit of news from Britannia:
    http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/uk_news/ 7705922.stm

    --
    ============ ========= ========= ========= ==
    In amicitia quod fides -
    Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
    Senator et Custode
    Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

    Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus

    Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/

    http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus
    http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
    http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
    http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
    http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
    --
    May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
    May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
    May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

    Internal Virus Database is out of date.
    Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
    Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 9:51 AM

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58929 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2008-11-08
    Subject: Fwd: Lazio celebrates Etruscan culture
    Attachments :
      I thought this would be interesting to the citizens
       
      Q. Fabius Maximus



      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58930 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Repost - two laws to be repealed
      In a message dated 11/8/2008 2:38:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jfarnoud94@... writes:
      In my opinion, Plebeian magistrates must be the less possible. More
      we will have tribunes of the Plebs, more the Patricians will be
      secure and quiet.
      --------------------------
       
      While I see that may be true, the actual number NR has is based on OUR needs as a world wide organization.
       
      The minimum number needed is three.  But in constitutional crisis, often NR Tribunes are not around, so back ups are needed.    


      Indeed, among 10 tribunes of the Plebs, you have more chance to have
      one corrupted tribune (and opposed at future rights of the Plebs
      which may emancipate Plebeians from the Patricians, like the
      precedent of the tribune Octavius against the tribune Ti. Gracchus)
      than in 3 tribunes of the Plebs.
      ------------------------------------------
      Corrupted?  Based on what?  How much money the Patricians are paying him?  The only "corruption" I have ever seen here in NR, is how people with the same narrow view support each other, to the determent of the society at large.  I would not call that corruption.
       
      Q. Fabius Maximus
       



      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58931 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve Cincinnatus!

      Congratulations and welcome to Nova Roma and to the provincia!

      Optime vale,

      Julia Aquila

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Salve Aule Sergi,
      >
      > "A. Sergius Cincinnatus" writes:
      >
      > > Salvete! It is my honor to say that recently I was given full
      > > citizenship status within Nova Roma.
      >
      > Welcome to Nova Roma. Congratulations.
      >
      > Vale,
      >
      > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58932 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Councils ban use of Latin terms
      Salvete,

      I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of flack regarding this
      decision. Consider the impact of weeding Latin terms out of the legal
      system for a start, then move onto the medical community and into
      education. I suppose there are many solicitiors engaging in
      conversation right now to over turn this impossibly
      ridiculous "ruling." It is a symptom of a bigger problem if British
      citizens confuse e.g. with egg; if this is one of the reasons given
      the entire affair is suspect.

      Valete

      L. Julia Aquila

      AKA for the British council:

      Lightbearing Youthful Child of Juppiter Eagle


      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn" <ldowling@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ave, Piperbarbe, et gratias tibi ago.
      >
      >
      >
      > Baffling, that political correctness should strike at one of the
      most
      > clearly politically correct - entirely neutral - things we have, the
      > beautiful Latin language. Sad.
      >
      >
      >
      > Vale,
      >
      > L. Aemilia Mamerca
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf
      > Of Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
      > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:24 AM
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Councils ban use of Latin terms
      >
      >
      >
      > Avete Omnes;
      >
      > An unfortunate bit of news from Britannia:
      > http://news. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7705922.stm>
      > bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7705922.stm
      >
      > --
      > =========================================
      > In amicitia quod fides -
      > Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
      > Senator et Custode
      > Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
      >
      > Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
      >
      > Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
      > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/>
      > yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
      >
      > http://www.myspace. <http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus>
      > com/venator_poetus
      > http://anheathenrea <http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/>
      der.blogspot.com/
      > http://ullarsskald0 <http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/>
      1.Writing.Com/
      > http://www.catamoun <http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/>
      > t-grange-hearth.org/
      > http://www.cafepres <http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange>
      > s.com/catamountgrange
      > --
      > May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
      > May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
      > May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
      >
      >
      >
      > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
      > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
      > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1762 - Release Date:
      11/2/2008
      > 9:51 AM
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58933 From: Christer Edling Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assemble
      Salvete Censorius!

      I am honerd by You kind words, still You too are an example to follow.
      I too should stand as Praetor in the future as I like You only lack
      that magistracy. We both only want to serve the Res Publica and to do
      so in every magistarcy in the Cursus Honorum is an honorable goal. You
      will achive that first and I will follow later. ;-).You have my
      respect and support, my friend!

      ***********

      7 nov 2008 kl. 19.42 skrev Gnaeus Equitius Marinus:

      Salve Caeso Fabi,

      Thank you for your endorsement. You set an example we all strive to
      follow.

      Vale,

      CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


      Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus <christer.edling@...> writes:

      > Salvete Quirites!
      >
      > The following citizens have my support in the bid for each
      > magistracy:
      >
      > CENSOR (1 opening)
      >
      > Titus Iulius Sabinus
      > -----------
      >
      > CONSUL (2 openings)
      >
      > M. Iulius Severus
      > Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
      >
      > -----------
      >
      > PRAETOR (2 openings)
      >
      > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
      > P. Memmius Albucius
      >
      > PROPOSALS FOR LAWS
      >
      > I also support all proposed changes to laws and the Constitution.

      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links






      *****************
      Vale

      Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

      Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
      Civis Romanus sum
      http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
      ************************************************
      Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
      "I'll either find a way or make one"
      ************************************************
      Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
      Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
      ************************************************
      Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
      Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58934 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.

      I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      positive or negative thing.
      What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the number
      of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      separate law.

      I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will allow
      the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      the constitution every time.

      So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?

      All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be elected
      by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.") with
      one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      other magistrates:

      "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."

      This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.

      I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit everybody
      and be very positive for Nova Roma.


      Optime vale.

      L. Livia Plauta

      > Salvete Quirites
      >
      > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think that
      > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's history
      > very well.
      >
      > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was when
      > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of Tribuni
      > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians, specifically to
      > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical system we
      > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > intercessio.
      >
      > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of the
      > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This again is
      > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting system,
      > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have over
      > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has actually
      > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      >
      > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis below
      > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that in
      > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as Tribunus.
      > How historical is that?
      >
      > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role for
      > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five Tribuni,
      > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time I was
      > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the year.
      > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did well
      > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have essentially
      > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a buffer by
      > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with in
      > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase the
      > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course not.
      >
      >
      > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and former
      > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a former
      > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in attaining
      > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices. And
      > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the lower
      > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things running
      > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the Conventus
      > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make our
      > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive. The
      > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a number of
      > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were given an
      > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into separate
      > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended to
      > serve the same purposes.
      >
      > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make the
      > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get better
      > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a problem
      > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office uncontested.
      > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to continue.
      > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible Tribunes. What
      > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by which
      > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as well,
      > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people will
      > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where more
      > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become more
      > competitive.
      >
      > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered the
      > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > measures.
      >
      > Valete optime
      >
      > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      >
      > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > Senator Tribunicius
      > Pontifex Maximus
      > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > Flamen Carmentalis
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58935 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Explanation about repealing the lex Arminia de cursu honorum
      L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

      Putting up two plebiscita to repeal two laws at the same time seems to
      have created a lot of chaos, with people not bothering to read the
      texts of the laws to be repealed and of the laws that we would revert
      to, and, even after the excellent explanations by Marinus, people keep
      confusing my proposals with the proposal by consul Piscinus to reduce
      the number of tribunes.

      Now the contio is over, and voting will begin tomorrow.
      I will make a last attempt at explanation, but I also ask citizens to
      please read the texts of the laws to be repealed, before deciding how
      to vote.

      The Lex Arminia de cursu honorum prescribes that candidates for
      Aedilis Plebis must have covered another magistracy first, or have
      been scribae for an Aedilis Plebis.

      This reduces substantially the number of possible candidates.

      According to the current laws, the candidates for Aedilis Curulis do
      not have to have covered another magistracy first.

      An Aedilis Plebis has no important responsibilities, specially none
      involving money. His/her only task is to organize ludi twice a year.

      An Aedilis Curulis has the very important responsibility of managing
      the aedilician fund.

      But a position with important responsibilities is easier to obtain
      than one without responsibilities.

      If the law is repealed, the requirements to run for Aedilis Plebis
      will be the same as to run for Aedilis Curulis, that is one will have
      to be an Assiduus citizen in good standing for at least six months and
      be over 21 years of age.

      Of course, in order to tun for plebeian magistracies one also has to
      be a plebeian, but that's obvious, and it's a requirement that doesn't
      change so I didn't mention it.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58936 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Explanation about repealing the lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum
      L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

      The lex Moravia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum requires a
      "plebiscitum de consecratione", that is, a second votation to confirm
      the elected plebeian magistrates.

      It also forbids plebiscita to be held at the same time as the annual
      election of plebeian magistrates.

      I don't think voting twice for the same candidates is a custom that
      has to be retained only because it's a part of the mos maiorum.
      There are other parts of the mos maiorum that we Nova Romans have
      rejected, like slavery.
      In the case of elections mos maiorum would require all the voters to
      be physically present in Rome.
      Interestingly enough, we don't follow this custom, so why should we
      follow the custom of having a confirmation election that's totally
      redundant?

      The magistrates convening the Comitia Centuriata and Comitia Populi
      Tributa have the power to propose laws to be voted on at the same time
      as the annual elections of magistrates, just as consul Piscinus is
      doing now with his proposals for amending the constitution.

      With the current situation only tribunes convening the Comitia Plebis
      Tributa are at disadvantage, since they don't have this possibility.

      If the law is repealed, from this point of view the plebeian comitia
      will be on par with the other ones.

      Of course, if the majority of people think it's not a good idea to
      vote for laws at the same time when elections for magistrates are
      going on, it will always be possible to make a law to forbid it, but
      for all Comitia, not just for Comitia Plebis Tributa.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58937 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Tribunes
      Salve Tribune Lucia Livia Plauta

      �I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will allow
      the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      the constitution every time.�

      Clever may be the right word but others come to mind. The number of
      magistrates should be set by the constitution as it gives the republic
      stability. It also removes the temptation for magistrates to micromanage
      the number of offices yearly.

      A constitutional amendment needs to be passed in the Comitia Centuriata and
      the Senate. That is called checks and balances and is very Roman. It is
      harder to do but maybe thats the point.

      The main reason I would think that the constitution sets the number of
      Consuls, Tribunes
      etc is to maintain a balance both with in a given office and between the
      different ones.

      It may be easier to get three Tribunes elected but it may also be easier to
      get those three
      to agree on topic X, Y and Z.

      Consul Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus makes a good point about the last
      time he
      was a Tribune and he, Agrippa, and Suetonius were left holding the fort as
      it were.
      But what if two of these three had been the ones not elected if electing
      only three or if
      they had been the ones to have disappeared. We would have had one or two
      active Tribunes or maybe none.

      When Consul Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus resigned as a Tribune and
      citizen during his first term he left Nova Roma with one Tribune. I assume
      that an election was held to replace him but for some time Nova Roma only
      had one Tribune in office and I do not believe that that is a good thing.

      I find safety in numbers both as to having more than three Tribunes but also
      having
      a diversity of opinions with in the Tribuneship

      I support keeping five Tribunes.

      Vale

      Tiberius Galerius Paulinus



      >From: "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
      >Reply-To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      >Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:34:52 -0000
      >
      >
      >L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.
      >
      >I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      >positive or negative thing.
      >What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the number
      >of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      >constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      >separate law.
      >
      >I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will allow
      >the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      >condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      >the constitution every time.
      >
      >So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      >
      >All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      >constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be elected
      >by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.") with
      >one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      >other magistrates:
      >
      >"A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      >Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      >
      >This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      >number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      >
      >I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      >passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit everybody
      >and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      >Optime vale.
      >
      >L. Livia Plauta
      >
      > > Salvete Quirites
      > >
      > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think that
      > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's history
      > > very well.
      > >
      > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was when
      > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of Tribuni
      > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians, specifically to
      > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical system we
      > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > intercessio.
      > >
      > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of the
      > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This again is
      > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting system,
      > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have over
      > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has actually
      > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > >
      > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis below
      > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that in
      > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as Tribunus.
      > > How historical is that?
      > >
      > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role for
      > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five Tribuni,
      > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time I was
      > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the year.
      > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did well
      > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have essentially
      > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a buffer by
      > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with in
      > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase the
      > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course not.
      > >
      > >
      > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and former
      > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a former
      > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in attaining
      > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices. And
      > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the lower
      > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things running
      > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the Conventus
      > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make our
      > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive. The
      > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a number of
      > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were given an
      > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into separate
      > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended to
      > > serve the same purposes.
      > >
      > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make the
      > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get better
      > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a problem
      > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office uncontested.
      > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to continue.
      > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible Tribunes. What
      > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by which
      > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as well,
      > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people will
      > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where more
      > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become more
      > > competitive.
      > >
      > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered the
      > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > measures.
      > >
      > > Valete optime
      > >
      > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > >
      > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > >
      >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58938 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Notae Quintus Fabius Maximus
      Ex Officio

      Censores Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberius Galerius Paulinus salutem
      plurimam quiritibus dicunt.

      According to Paragraph IV. A. 1. f. of the Constitution of Nova Roma the
      Censores have the power �to safeguard the public morality and honor through
      the collegial administering of Notae�.
      Therefore we the Censores of Nova Roma herby issue a notae against

      Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus for bringing dishonor to the Senate of Nova
      Roma

      Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus has done this by the spreading of false and
      misleading information on the life and death status of a member of the Nova
      Roman Senate.

      That Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus has done this over an extended period of
      time and to a number of individuals leads us to conclude that this was no
      accident and was done
      with premeditation and malice.

      Because more is expected of a Senator, Consular, and Pontifex of Nova Roma
      the Censores highly recommend that Senator Quintus Fabius Maximus take some
      time to compose a full and truthful explanation as to his past conduct and
      to issue a sincere apology to the Senate of Nova Roma.

      The effect of this Notae shall be limited to the removal of Senator Quintus
      Fabius Maximus from the Senate of Nova Roma until such time as it, the
      Notae, is removed.

      It shall have no other effect and takes effect immediately.

      Given under our hands this eighth day of November 2761 A.U.C. (AD 2008) in
      the consulships of M. Moravius and T. Iulius.


      Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
      Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
      Censores, Novae Romae
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58939 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Notae Quintus Fabius Maximus
      Salve Tiberius,

      Since any conversations took place privately then I can't see how a nota can be issued.

      If everyone got a nota for things they said amonst their friends, than all of us would have the.

      Vale,
      Diana
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58940 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Theodosius I
      Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.

      It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth celebrating that
      today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a. u. c.) Theodosius
      the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the Gods. Let us
      rejoice in its return!

      Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58941 From: segestamilius Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      Praise Jupiter, and all that is Rome --- In Nova-
      Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <catullus.poeta@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      >
      > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth celebrating that
      > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a. u. c.)
      Theodosius
      > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the Gods. Let us
      > rejoice in its return!
      >
      > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58942 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      Salve et salvete,
      And let us not forget the blessed Queen of Heaven,celestial Venus,who in the beginning of the world did join all kinds of things with engendered love,by an eternal propagation of life,that we all who have come together in this Respublica, and the Religio Romana, instilling in us all a love for all that is Rome.Vale et valete.

      For The Gods!
      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus


      --- On Sat, 11/8/08, segestamilius <rcetmorgan@...> wrote:

      > From: segestamilius <rcetmorgan@...>
      > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Theodosius I
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 7:37 PM
      > Praise Jupiter, and all that is Rome --- In Nova-
      > Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
      > <catullus.poeta@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      > >
      > > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth
      > celebrating that
      > > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a.
      > u. c.)
      > Theodosius
      > > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the
      > Gods. Let us
      > > rejoice in its return!
      > >
      > > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58943 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      Bene dixit; recte vicit!
      dii immortales istum superaverunt!
      pax deorum - pax hominem
      Maior



      > > > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      > > >
      > > > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth
      > > celebrating that
      > > > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a.
      > > u. c.)
      > > Theodosius
      > > > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the
      > > Gods. Let us
      > > > rejoice in its return!
      > > >
      > > > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      > > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58944 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      I think you mean to say either "pax hominum" which is peace between men, or pax hominibus, peace for [all] men.

      QVP

      On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

      Bene dixit; recte vicit!
      dii immortales istum superaverunt!
      pax deorum - pax hominem
      Maior



      > > > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      > > >
      > > > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth
      > > celebrating that
      > > > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a.
      > > u. c.)
      > > Theodosius
      > > > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the
      > > Gods. Let us
      > > > rejoice in its return!
      > > >
      > > > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      > > >
      >

      __._,_.

      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58946 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-08
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      thanks for the Latin help Poplicola, I meant 'pax hominum'
      your post really turned my thinking around about this day.
      Maior

      >
      > I think you mean to say either "pax hominum" which is peace
      between men, or
      > pax hominibus, peace for [all] men.
      >
      > QVP
      >
      > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Bene dixit; recte vicit!
      > > dii immortales istum superaverunt!
      > > pax deorum - pax hominem
      > > Maior
      > >
      > >
      > > > > > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth
      > > > > celebrating that
      > > > > > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a.
      > > > > u. c.)
      > > > > Theodosius
      > > > > > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the
      > > > > Gods. Let us
      > > > > > rejoice in its return!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      > > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > __._,_.
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58947 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: More one citizen...
      Re: [Nova-Roma] More one citizen...
      A. Tullia Scholastica C. Cocceio Spinulae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

          Yahoo has just seen fit to deliver some of the mail from October 31st and November 1st...via its lunar colony, if not the Martian one.   
       

      Salvete,
       
      I'm recently new as a citizen, accepted tree days ago. Still I have been there since July08 learning until the write time came.

          ATS:  Welcome to Nova Roma!
       
      Hi feel happy to finally pass the age barrier, witch took me tree years.

          ATS:  You have waited a long time.  Apart from some rough spots, it is worth it.  
       
      The areas where I'm interested are basically all, but with a special affection for ancient knowledge and culture. (Latin too)

          ATS:  I know someone who can help you with that parenthetical item...   ;-)  I happen to teach Latin.  
       
       
      Studying to become a civil engineer who shall try to incorporate this lost knowledge.
      (That works!!! i.e.: basically all greco-roman constructions or even a closer example: the magnificent Antikythera mechanism)

          ATS:  And I think that perhaps Senator Audens might be interested in chatting with you...but only in English.  
       
      And some more information I would like to share:
      I'm lusitani (portuguese), from Felicitas Julia (Lisbon), Lusitania (Portugal).
      (I'm the only nova roman portuguese I know, tell me I'm not alone. Although if I'm the first it's an Honor)

          ATS:  You are not alone; there are other Lusitani here, as well as a number of Brazilians who seem to speak the same language.  

       
      Valete, and a good weekend,
      C. Cocceius

      Vale, et valete.

       
       
            
         Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/58608
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58948 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Re: [Nova-Roma] Greetings and Introduction
      A. Tullia Scholastica A. Sergio Cincinnato quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
       

      A. Sergius Cincinnatus Quiritibus Omnibus S.P.D.

      Salvete!

          ATS:  Salve!  A warm welcome to Nova Roma!


      It is my honor to say that recently I was given full
      citizenship status within Nova Roma.  This is indeed my first post on
      the main list, but I have been, for lack of a better term, 'lurking'
      here to gain insight and take in as much as possible.  I will just say
      that it's been more...interesting as of late.

          ATS:  Lurking is a good idea.  

      I am a proud citizen of the America Austrorientalis province, more
      specifically in Florida.  I am currently working toward a degree in
      Greek and Latin, which will be finished by August.

          ATS: All the more reason to welcome you here!  I am a senior Latinist here, and teach Latin online at the Academia Thules.  We have a number of classicists and Latinists among us, though it’s never enough.  We have an all-Latin mailing list, and one where Latin is welcome (as well it should be everywhere here) which might interest you.  There is also a Greek sodalitas (SIG) as well as the Latin one and the Forum Latinum, should you be interested in that.  


       I am very excited
      to be here as I have always been a fan of Rome and her culture, and it
      just overwhelms me that there is such a place as this full of
      like-minded individuals, who are just as eager and interested,
      probably even more so!, as me.  I look forward to doing everything I
      can for the betterment and advancement of the Res Publica and to
      working with you all.

          ATS:  And we look forward to working with you as well.  

      Optime valete!

          Et tu!  

       
            
         Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/58919
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58949 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 9, 2008.
      C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
       
      Today in Rome :
       
      (Julian day : 2 454 780).
       
      A.d. V Idus Novembres
      MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
      Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
       
      Day of the week : Solis dies (Sunday).
       
      Lunaris dies: XIII.
      Nundinal letter : A.
       
      Hora ortus Solis : 06:51.
      Hora occasus Solis : 16:55.
      Temp. Min. : 7° C.
      Temp. Max. : 18° C.
      Wind on Rome : 7 Km/h.
      Humidity: 93 %.
      Weather : Passing cloud. Cold and mild on afternoon.
       
      Horae diei :
       
      I: 06:49 - 07:42 Mercurii hora.
      II: 07:42 - 08:34 Lunae hora.
      III: 08:34 - 09:25 Saturni hora.
      IV: 09:25 - 10:17 Iovis hora.
      V: 10:17 - 11:08 Martis hora.
      VI: 11:08 - 12:00 Solis hora.
      VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Veneris hora.
      VIII: 12:49 - 13:38 Mercurii hora.
      IX: 13:38 - 14:27 Lunae hora.
      X: 14:27 - 15:16 Saturni hora.
      XI: 15:16 - 16:05 Iovis hora.
      XII: 16:05 - 16:55 Martis hora.
       
       
      Horae noctis :
       
      I: 16:55 - 18:05 Solis hora.
      II: 18:05 - 19:16 Veneris hora.
      III: 19:16 - 20:27 Mercurii hora.
      IV: 20:27 - 21:38 Lunae hora.
      V: 21:38 - 22:49 Saturni hora.
      VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Iovis hora.
      VII: 00:00 - 01:08 Martis hora.
      VIII: 01:08 - 02:17 Solis hora.
      IX: 02:17 - 03:26 Veneris hora.
      X: 03:26 - 04:34 Mercurii hora.
      XI: 04:34 - 05:43 Lunae hora.
      XII: 05:43 - 06:52 Saturni hora.
       

      "Aliter apud antiquos singuli Marcipores Luciporesve dominorum gentiles omnem victum in promiscuo habebant, nec ulla domi a domesticis
       
      custodia opus erat."
      (Pliny the Elder, HN: XXXIII, 26.)
       
      Valete.
       
      C. Petronius Dexter.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58950 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Theodosius I
      Buf of course! It lightened my day as well, as dark as it may be. For
      every tragedy, we shall overcome.

      QVP

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
      >
      > thanks for the Latin help Poplicola, I meant 'pax hominum'
      > your post really turned my thinking around about this day.
      > Maior
      >
      > >
      > > I think you mean to say either "pax hominum" which is peace
      > between men, or
      > > pax hominibus, peace for [all] men.
      > >
      > > QVP
      > >
      > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Bene dixit; recte vicit!
      > > > dii immortales istum superaverunt!
      > > > pax deorum - pax hominem
      > > > Maior
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > > Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > It should be worth remembering and perhaps worth
      > > > > > celebrating that
      > > > > > > today in 393 CE (a. d. ui Id. Nov. in anno MCXLVI a.
      > > > > > u. c.)
      > > > > > Theodosius
      > > > > > > the I banned the Religio Romana and the worship of the
      > > > > > Gods. Let us
      > > > > > > rejoice in its return!
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Di vos incolumes custodiant. Bene valete!
      > > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > __._,_.
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58951 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magistrate
      L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

      The cista is now open for voting on the two plebiscita about repealing
      lex Arminia and lex Moravia.
      In order to vote the simplest way is to log in to the Album Civium and
      click on the "go vote" link.
      I ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and Friday,
      November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.

      From today the contio is open for the election of Tribuni Plebis and
      Aediles Plebis, which will start on November 16.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58952 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: a. d. V Eidus Novembris: Dea Helena; Origin of the Tribunes
      M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
      plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodian.

      Hodie est ante diem V Eidus Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:
      Divae Helenae supplicatio ex quis muneribus nosse contigit Deos.

      Helena, the daughter of Constantine and Fausta, sister of Constantius
      II, and wife of Julian the Blessed died in Gaul during the ludi
      Quinquennialis, probably while in childbirth, possibly in 360 CE, the
      same year that Julian was proclaimed emperor by his legions. She was
      buried at a villa on the Via Nomentana in Rome. A supplicatio, or
      thanksgiving, was offered to her by Roman legions as a Mater Castrae
      and later for the apotheosis of her juno, with this date being the
      dies natalis into her new life as a divine being.


      Origin of the Tribuni Plebis

      "So they formed a compact to lend aid to one another in case any one
      of them should be wronged in any particular; and they took oaths to
      this effect and forthwith elected from their own number two
      representatives,— and afterward still more,— in order that each class
      might p127have a helper and avenger. And this they did not once only,
      but the idea now conceived in this form kept growing, and they
      appointed their representative for a year, as to some office. The men
      were called in the tongue of the Latins tribuni,— the same name that
      was given to the commanders of a thousand,— but were styled dêmarchoi
      [leaders of the people] in the Greek language. In order, however, to
      distinguish between the titles of the tribunes, they added in the one
      case the phrase "of the soldiers," and in the other the phrase "of
      the people." Now these tribunes of the people (or dêmarchoi) became
      responsible for great evils that befell Rome. For though they did not
      immediately secure the title of magistrates, they gained power beyond
      all others, defending every one who begged protection and rescuing
      every one who called upon them not only from private individuals, but
      from the very magistrates, except the dictators. If any one ever
      invoked them when absent, he, too, was released from the person
      holding him prisoner and was either brought before the populace by
      them or was set free. And if ever they saw fit that anything should
      not be done, they prevented it, whether the person acting were a
      private citizen or a magistrate; and if the populace or the senate
      was about to do or to vote anything and a single tribune opposed it,
      the action or the vote became null and void. As time went on, they
      were allowed, or allowed themselves, to summon the senate, to punish
      anybody who disobeyed them, to practise divination, and to hold
      court. And in the case of anything that was unlawful for them to do,
      they gained their point by their incontestable opposition to every
      project undertaken by others. For they introduced laws to the effect
      that whoever should obstruct them by deed or word, be he private
      citizen or magistrate, should be "devoted" and under a curse. This
      being "devoted" meant destruction; for this was the term applied to
      everything that was consecrated, like a victim, for slaughter. The
      tribunes themselves were termed by the multitude sacrosanct, since
      they served as sacred walls, so to speak, for the shelter of such as
      invoked them; for sacra among the Romans means "walls," and
      sancta "sacred." Many of their actions were unwarrantable, for they
      threw even consuls into prison and put men to death without granting
      them a hearing. Nobody ventured to oppose them; or, in case anyone
      did, he himself became "devoted." If, however, persons were not
      condemned by all the tribunes, they would call to their help those
      who had not concurred in the verdict, and so were given a regular
      trial before the tribunes themselves or before a jury or before the
      populace, and were subject to the deciding vote.

      "In the course of time the number of the tribunes was fixed at ten,
      and as a result of this most of their power was overthrown. Through
      the tendency, natural to most persons, to differ with their fellow
      officials,— since it is always difficult for a number of men to
      attain harmony, especially p131in a position of any influence,— all
      their power was being dissipated and torn to shreds; for none of
      their resolutions was valid in case even one of them opposed it. They
      had originally received their office for no other purpose than to
      resist such as were oppressing anybody, and this he who tried to
      prevent any measure from being carried into effect was sure to prove
      stronger than those who supported it.

      "Now at first they did not enter the senate-house, but sat at the
      entrance and watched proceedings, and in case anything failed to
      please them, they would then and there oppose it. Next they were
      invited inside. Later, however, the ex-tribunes became members of the
      senate, and finally some of the senators even sought to be tribunes —
      unless one chanced to be a patrician. Patricians the people would not
      accept; for after choosing the tribunes to defend them against the
      patricians, and advancing them to so great power, they feared that a
      patrician might turn this power to contrary purposes and use it
      against them. But if a man abjured the rank given him by birth and
      changed his status to that of a common citizen, they received him
      gladly. And a p133number of the most prominent patricians actually
      did renounce their nobility, through desire for the immense influence
      possible, and so became tribunes. Such was the origin of the power
      of the tribunes." ~ Cassius Dio 4.15


      Our thoughts for today are from L. Annaeus Seneca, Epistle 107:

      "Life is not a dainty business. You have started on a long journey
      you are bound to slip, collide, fall, become weary, and cry out: "O
      for Death!" or in other words, tell lies. At one stage you will
      leave a comrade behind you, at another you will bury someone, at
      another you will be apprehensive. It is amid stumblings of this sort
      that you must travel out this rugged journey....

      "Winter brings on cold weather; and we must shiver. Summer returns,
      with its heat; and we must sweat. Unseasonable weather upsets the
      health; and we must fall ill. In certain places we may meet with
      wild beasts, or with men who are more destructive than any beasts.
      Floods, or fires, will cause us loss. And we cannot change this
      order of things; but what we can do is to acquire stout hearts,
      worthy of good men, thereby courageously enduring chance and placing
      ourselves in harmony with Nature."
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58953 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p. d.

      Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with the
      intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      suggestion and make the substitution.

      Gratias tibi ago

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano
      S.P.D.
      >
      > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      > positive or negative thing.
      > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      number
      > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > separate law.
      >
      > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      allow
      > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      > the constitution every time.
      >
      > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      >
      > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      elected
      > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      with
      > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > other magistrates:
      >
      > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      >
      > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      >
      > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      everybody
      > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      > Optime vale.
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta
      >
      > > Salvete Quirites
      > >
      > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think
      that
      > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      history
      > > very well.
      > >
      > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      when
      > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      Tribuni
      > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      specifically to
      > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      system we
      > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > intercessio.
      > >
      > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      the
      > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      again is
      > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      system,
      > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      over
      > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      actually
      > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > >
      > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis
      below
      > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      in
      > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      Tribunus.
      > > How historical is that?
      > >
      > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role
      for
      > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      Tribuni,
      > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time
      I was
      > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the
      year.
      > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      well
      > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      essentially
      > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      buffer by
      > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with
      in
      > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase
      the
      > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      not.
      > >
      > >
      > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      former
      > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      former
      > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      attaining
      > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      And
      > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      lower
      > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      running
      > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      Conventus
      > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make
      our
      > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive.
      The
      > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      number of
      > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      given an
      > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      separate
      > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      to
      > > serve the same purposes.
      > >
      > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make
      the
      > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      better
      > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      problem
      > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      uncontested.
      > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      continue.
      > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      Tribunes. What
      > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by
      which
      > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as
      well,
      > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      will
      > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      more
      > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      more
      > > competitive.
      > >
      > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered
      the
      > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > measures.
      > >
      > > Valete optime
      > >
      > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > >
      > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58954 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magist
      M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis et
      Quiritibus s. p. d.

      First, I must point out that the link from the website leads to the
      cista for 2007. I hope that this is corrected shortly.

      Secondly, as the author of the Lex Moravia, I support the Tribuna's
      call for its repeal. The law was passed to meet a specific situation
      that arose. Also, this lex Moravia was related to another law that has
      since been repealled, so that it makes no sense to retain the lex
      Moravia now.


      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.
      >
      > The cista is now open for voting on the two plebiscita about repealing
      > lex Arminia and lex Moravia.
      > In order to vote the simplest way is to log in to the Album Civium and
      > click on the "go vote" link.
      > I ask citizens not to vote on Thursday, November 13 and Friday,
      > November 14, because those days are not dies comitiales.
      >
      > From today the contio is open for the election of Tribuni Plebis and
      > Aediles Plebis, which will start on November 16.
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58955 From: Cocceius Spinula Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: More one citizen...
      Salve Tullia Scholastica et Salvete,
       
      Thank you.
       
      Actualy I have waited 3 years, in 2005. When I was looking for Roma Nova (I didn't know latin at that time so I took the logical way, because of Carthago Nova), and I found Nova Roma, I read the becomming a citizen page and saw that I needed to be 18.
       
      I just wanted to know if there where more lusitani, because it would be nice and easyer for me to actualy meek a Nova Roman in persone.
      I hope, when I'm more free, to talk (write) about roman or greek literature.
      And with Srnator Audens, if we can.
       
      Vale Scholastica et Valete
      Cocceius

      ---
      A. Tullia Scholastica C. Cocceio Spinulae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

          Yahoo has just seen fit to deliver some of the mail from October 31st and November 1st...via its lunar colony, if not the Martian one.   
       

      Salvete,
       
      I'm recently new as a citizen, accepted tree days ago. Still I have been there since July08 learning until the write time came.

          ATS:  Welcome to Nova Roma!
       
      Hi feel happy to finally pass the age barrier, witch took me tree years.

          ATS:  You have waited a long time.  Apart from some rough spots, it is worth it.  
       
      The areas where I'm interested are basically all, but with a special affection for ancient knowledge and culture. (Latin too)

          ATS:  I know someone who can help you with that parenthetical item...   ;-)  I happen to teach Latin.  
       
       
      Studying to become a civil engineer who shall try to incorporate this lost knowledge.
      (That works!!! i.e.: basically all greco-roman constructions or even a closer example: the magnificent Antikythera mechanism)

          ATS:  And I think that perhaps Senator Audens might be interested in chatting with you...but only in English.  
       
      And some more information I would like to share:
      I'm lusitani (portuguese) , from Felicitas Julia (Lisbon), Lusitania (Portugal).
      (I'm the only nova roman portuguese I know, tell me I'm not alone. Although if I'm the first it's an Honor)

          ATS:  You are not alone; there are other Lusitani here, as well as a number of Brazilians who seem to speak the same language.  

       
      Valete, and a good weekend,
      C. Cocceius

      Vale, et valete.

       
       
            
         Messages in this topic           <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/message/ 58608

      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58956 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis M. Moravio Piscino consuli omnibus
      quiritibus S.P.D.

      Thank you.
      I would like to point out again that I'm very much in favour of the
      possibility to decide the number of magistrates (and also to extend or
      modify their powers) by law, without having to modify the constitution
      every time.

      Nothing like a constitution ever existed in ancient Rome.

      True, as Lentulus says, we don't necessarily have to repeat every
      mistake the ancient Romans made, in our eagerness to copy them, so we
      might as well adopt a useful tool, like a constitution, that has been
      invented later.

      But it has to be a tool, not a hindrance, not a weight that we have
      to keep dragging around.

      Passing simple laws is easier than modifying the constitution, but it
      still requires a majority of citizens to agree, so it's not as if we
      would be moving to a regime of arbitrariety, and I'm sure the balance
      among different magistracies can be kept by law as easily as by
      constitution.

      Let's give ourselves a chance to have less or more magistrates,
      according to what the situation requires!



      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...> wrote:
      >
      > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p. d.
      >
      > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with the
      > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      > suggestion and make the substitution.
      >
      > Gratias tibi ago
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano
      > S.P.D.
      > >
      > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      > > positive or negative thing.
      > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      > number
      > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > > separate law.
      > >
      > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      > allow
      > > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      > > the constitution every time.
      > >
      > > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      > >
      > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      > elected
      > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      > with
      > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > > other magistrates:
      > >
      > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      > >
      > > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      > >
      > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      > everybody
      > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Optime vale.
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta
      > >
      > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > >
      > > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think
      > that
      > > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      > history
      > > > very well.
      > > >
      > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      > when
      > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      > Tribuni
      > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      > specifically to
      > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      > system we
      > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > > intercessio.
      > > >
      > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      > the
      > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      > again is
      > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      > system,
      > > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      > over
      > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      > actually
      > > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > > >
      > > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis
      > below
      > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      > in
      > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      > Tribunus.
      > > > How historical is that?
      > > >
      > > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role
      > for
      > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      > Tribuni,
      > > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time
      > I was
      > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the
      > year.
      > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      > well
      > > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      > essentially
      > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      > buffer by
      > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with
      > in
      > > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase
      > the
      > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      > not.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      > former
      > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      > former
      > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      > attaining
      > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      > And
      > > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      > lower
      > > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      > running
      > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      > Conventus
      > > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make
      > our
      > > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive.
      > The
      > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      > number of
      > > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      > given an
      > > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      > separate
      > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      > to
      > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > >
      > > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make
      > the
      > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      > better
      > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      > problem
      > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      > uncontested.
      > > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      > continue.
      > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      > Tribunes. What
      > > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by
      > which
      > > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as
      > well,
      > > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      > will
      > > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      > more
      > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      > more
      > > > competitive.
      > > >
      > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered
      > the
      > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > > measures.
      > > >
      > > > Valete optime
      > > >
      > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > >
      > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58957 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.
       
      for the same reason I urge all Plebeians to vote against the proposed change in the number of tribunes.
       
      Tibunes set according to needs ? Who will define these needs ? This all sounds very vague, too vague for me to support it.
      We have the well deserved right to have 5 tribunes of the people , this is following the historical roots of our ancestors and I will not give up on this one.
       
      Optime vale
      Titus Flavius Aquila
      Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma


      Von: Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...>
      An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Gesendet: Samstag, den 8. November 2008, 20:34:52 Uhr
      Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes


      L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.

      I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      positive or negative thing.
      What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the number
      of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      separate law.

      I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will allow
      the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      the constitution every time.

      So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?

      All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be elected
      by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.") with
      one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      other magistrates:

      "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."

      This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.

      I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit everybody
      and be very positive for Nova Roma.

      Optime vale.

      L. Livia Plauta

      > Salvete Quirites
      >
      > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think that
      > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's history
      > very well.
      >
      > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was when
      > Nova Roma still
      had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of Tribuni
      > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians, specifically to
      > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical system we
      > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > intercessio.
      >
      > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of the
      > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This again is
      > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting system,
      > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have over
      > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has actually
      > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      >
      > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis below
      > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that in
      > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you
      have to first serve as Tribunus.
      > How historical is that?
      >
      > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role for
      > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five Tribuni,
      > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time I was
      > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the year.
      > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did well
      > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have essentially
      > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a buffer by
      > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with in
      > having had Faustus as
      his consular colleague, do we then increase the
      > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course not.
      >
      >
      > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and former
      > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a former
      > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in attaining
      > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices. And
      > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the lower
      > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things running
      > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the Conventus
      > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make our
      > administration more efficient and our elections
      more competitive. The
      > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a number of
      > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were given an
      > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into separate
      > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended to
      > serve the same purposes.
      >
      > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make the
      > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get better
      > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a problem
      > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office uncontested.
      > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to continue.
      > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible Tribunes. What
      > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > important position.
      Competitive elections improves the process by which
      > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as well,
      > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people will
      > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where more
      > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become more
      > competitive.
      >
      > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered the
      > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > measures.
      >
      > Valete optime
      >
      > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      >
      > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > Senator Tribunicius
      > Pontifex Maximus
      > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > Flamen Carmentalis
      >


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58958 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.
       
      The proposal of Tribuns Plebis Paluta might be a possible solution.
       
      But how can we be certain that everything is done as needed ? With no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want to change the number of magistrates, do we want a constant fluctuation ? I still say all of this is too vague and needs to be discussed in detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of an consuls term.
       
      I am still willing to veto this for the following reasons,
       
      1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      2. because you have not consulted all of the magistrates to eleborate the draft before publishing it
       

      I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on your substitution and changes , especially for the Tribuni Plebi section of the lex Moravia Julia.

       

      In general I thought we had a change in culture , involving all Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an impact ?
       
      Optime vale
      Titus Flavius Aquila
      Tribuns Plebis Nova Roma

       


      Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@...>
      An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes

      M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p. d.

      Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with the
      intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      suggestion and make the substitution.

      Gratias tibi ago

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
      wrote:

      >
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano
      S.P.D.
      >
      > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      > positive or negative thing.
      > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      number
      > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > separate
      law.
      >
      > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      allow
      > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      > the constitution every time.
      >
      > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      >
      > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      elected
      > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      with
      > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > other magistrates:
      >
      > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      >
      > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > number of Tribunes is
      best, before passing a relevant law.
      >
      > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      everybody
      > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      > Optime vale.
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta
      >
      > > Salvete Quirites
      > >
      > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think
      that
      > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      history
      > > very well.
      > >
      > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      when
      > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      Tribuni
      > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      specifically to
      > > weaken the power of the office
      by imposing this ahistorical
      system we
      > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > intercessio.
      > >
      > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      the
      > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      again is
      > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      system,
      > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      over
      > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      actually
      > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > >
      > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis
      below
      > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      in
      > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      Tribunus.
      > > How historical is
      that?
      > >
      > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role
      for
      > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      Tribuni,
      > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time
      I was
      > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the
      year.
      > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      well
      > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      essentially
      > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      buffer by
      > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar
      with
      in
      > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase
      the
      > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      not.
      > >
      > >
      > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      former
      > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      former
      > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      attaining
      > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      And
      > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      lower
      > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      running
      > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      Conventus
      > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make
      our
      > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive.
      The
      > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      number of
      > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      given an
      > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      separate
      > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      to
      > > serve the same purposes.
      > >
      > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make
      the
      > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      better
      > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      problem
      > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      uncontested.
      > > We don't
      know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      continue.
      > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      Tribunes. What
      > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by
      which
      > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as
      well,
      > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      will
      > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      more
      > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      more
      > > competitive.
      > >
      > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered
      the
      > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > >
      measures.
      > >
      > > Valete optime
      > >
      > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > >
      > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > >
      >


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58959 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino Horatiano S.P.D.
       
      The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a possible solution.
       
      But how can we be certain that everything is done as needed ? With no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want to change the number of magistrates, do we want a constant fluctuation ? I still say all of this is too vague and needs to be discussed in detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of an consuls term.
       
      I am still willing to veto this for the following reasons,
       
      1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      2. because you have not consulted all of the magistrates to eleborate the draft before publishing it
       

      I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on your substitution and changes , especially for the Tribuni Plebi section of the lex Moravia Iulia.

       

      In general I thought we had a change in culture , involving all Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an impact ?
       
      Optime vale
      Titus Flavius Aquila
      Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma

       




      Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@...>
      An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes

      M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p. d.

      Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with the
      intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      suggestion and make the substitution.

      Gratias tibi ago

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
      wrote:

      >
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano
      S.P.D.
      >
      > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      > positive or negative thing.
      > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      number
      > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > separate
      law.
      >
      > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      allow
      > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      > the constitution every time.
      >
      > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      >
      > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      elected
      > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      with
      > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > other magistrates:
      >
      > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      >
      > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > number of Tribunes is
      best, before passing a relevant law.
      >
      > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      everybody
      > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      >
      >
      > Optime vale.
      >
      > L. Livia Plauta
      >
      > > Salvete Quirites
      > >
      > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think
      that
      > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      history
      > > very well.
      > >
      > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      when
      > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      Tribuni
      > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      specifically to
      > > weaken the power of the office
      by imposing this ahistorical
      system we
      > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > intercessio.
      > >
      > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      the
      > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      again is
      > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      system,
      > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      over
      > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      actually
      > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > >
      > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis
      below
      > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      in
      > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      Tribunus.
      > > How historical is
      that?
      > >
      > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role
      for
      > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      Tribuni,
      > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time
      I was
      > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the
      year.
      > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      well
      > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      essentially
      > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      buffer by
      > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar
      with
      in
      > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase
      the
      > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      not.
      > >
      > >
      > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      former
      > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      former
      > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      attaining
      > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      And
      > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      lower
      > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      running
      > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      Conventus
      > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make
      our
      > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive.
      The
      > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      number of
      > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      given an
      > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      separate
      > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      to
      > > serve the same purposes.
      > >
      > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make
      the
      > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      better
      > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      problem
      > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      uncontested.
      > > We don't
      know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      continue.
      > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      Tribunes. What
      > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by
      which
      > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as
      well,
      > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      will
      > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      more
      > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      more
      > > competitive.
      > >
      > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered
      the
      > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > >
      measures.
      > >
      > > Valete optime
      > >
      > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > >
      > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > >
      >


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58960 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
      Maior C. Petronio spd;
      ah spelling;-) cappella. Thanks!
      You've made an extremely interesting point about Nova Roma; its
      culture.
      Our model is the middle Republic, for government, Roman cultural
      values.

      When I joined I met C. Curius Saturninus and A. Apollonius Cordus,
      now good friends explained the vision of NR: to think like a
      republican Roman, act like a Roman in 21st century everyday life. A
      Roman 2,000 years later. What a challenge! That's what makes Nova
      Roma so unique.

      We're the opposite of re-enactors, we're not like the many Roman
      cultural orgs that talk only about past history. Our aim is to be
      Roman. So nothing in our everyday life is off-topic.

      As for Latin, I enjoy this discussion enormously. When I took Sermo
      I, Avitus used 'currus' for auto, now it seems 'raeda' what word
      for 'computer'?

      Tomorrow I'll call the local historical society. For the U.S. this
      is an old town and just might have a Latin name.
      I appreciate this discussion: que me plaise la profondeur de
      votre Latinitas!
      valeas
      Maior



      So the Latin speakers I know who are Nova Romans and agree with the
      above: Lentulus, Astur, Cordus, Saturninus don't limit their Latin
      to Classical.
      >
      > Cappella, indeed medieval and christian word from cappa (hood), is
      > not capella (little capra). ;o)
      >
      > In other hand, Avitus' reasons of teaching the medieval or modern
      > Latin, in my opinion, is better to have discussions and dialogs
      > between modern people speaking Latin, but here in Nova Roma we
      must
      > prefer the classical Latin, the Republican period Latin, and we
      only
      > have to use modern words with modern things when these things were
      > unknown by the Romans themselves.
      >
      > The thing "computer" was unknown. Either we chose to translate
      this
      > modern thing with a new Latin word like "computatorium",
      > "ordinatorium"... or we chose to update an ancient word of a
      > calculating "engin" like the ancient "abacus". My own choice is to
      > use ancient words updated.
      >
      > We might use "raeda" (private chariot) to translate the
      modern "car".
      > In the same way that when French use the word "freins" (brakes)
      about
      > of their cars, while originaly "freins" was the (bits) used in
      horses
      > riding.
      >
      > The word cappella (from cappa) was not known by Cicero, Caesar,
      > Vergil, Petronius... by none of the Romans writers. But the thing
      > designed by chapel was known and called sacellum (diminutive of
      > sacrum) or fanulum (diminitive of fanum). In fact a sacellum or a
      > fanulum, like templum, was not words appropriate to the Christian
      > Church which preferred others, in which the word cappella in the
      > medieval period. But the first Christian writers of the dark ages,
      > had not other words than the common words and you find under
      > their "stylus" the word sacellum, even used by Erasmus. For
      example
      > in this quote: "[1,32] Ne putaris te Christum satis tibi
      demeriturum,
      > si classem miseris in Turcas, si *sacellum* aut monasteriolum
      > exstruxeris."
      >
      > Optime vale.
      >
      > C. Petronius Dexter.
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58961 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:

      I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes regarding
      legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian magistrates. The
      Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact that you
      should have been consulted.

      I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls because I've been
      away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any century points
      (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on to a similar
      problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.

      I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a number of
      Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I would hate
      to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of a colleague because we
      are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a full
      historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see somebody
      justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's historical'.

      And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      sublection as Senators...it's just a matter of time...depends on when
      the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom the Censors
      might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past service in
      NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The Censors can
      wish and get in line behind the Praetores.

      This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I can see where it
      could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      uncomfortable as being part of the constitution.

      I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.

      Valete
      Pompeia


      In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
      >
      > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino
      Horatiano S.P.D.
      >
      > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a possible
      solution.
      >
      > But how can we be certain that everything is done as needed ? With
      no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want to change
      the number of magistrates, do we want a constant fluctuation ? I
      still say all of this is too vague and needs to be discussed in
      detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      an consuls term.
      >
      > I am still willing to veto this for the following reasons,
      >  
      > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > 2. because you have not consulted all of the magistrates to
      eleborate the draft before publishing it
      >  
      > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      your substitution and changes , especially for the Tribuni Plebi
      section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      >  
      > In general I thought we had a change in culture , involving all
      Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an impact ?
      >  
      > Optime vale
      > Titus Flavius Aquila
      >
      > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@...>
      > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      >
      >
      > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p.
      d.
      >
      > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with
      the
      > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      > suggestion and make the substitution.
      >
      > Gratias tibi ago
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino
      Horatiano
      > S.P.D.
      > >
      > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be
      a
      > > positive or negative thing.
      > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      > number
      > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > > separate law.
      > >
      > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      > allow
      > > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to
      change
      > > the constitution every time.
      > >
      > > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      > >
      > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      > elected
      > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      > with
      > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > > other magistrates:
      > >
      > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      > >
      > > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      > >
      > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      > everybody
      > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Optime vale.
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta
      > >
      > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > >
      > > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I
      think
      > that
      > > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      > history
      > > > very well.
      > > >
      > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      > when
      > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      > Tribuni
      > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      > specifically to
      > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      > system we
      > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > > intercessio.
      > > >
      > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      > the
      > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      > again is
      > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      > system,
      > > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      > over
      > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      > actually
      > > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > > >
      > > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni
      Plebis
      > below
      > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      > in
      > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      > Tribunus.
      > > > How historical is that?
      > > >
      > > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper
      role
      > for
      > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      > Tribuni,
      > > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last
      time
      > I was
      > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of
      the
      > year.
      > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      > well
      > > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      > essentially
      > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      > buffer by
      > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar
      with
      > in
      > > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then
      increase
      > the
      > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      > not.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      > former
      > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      > former
      > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      > attaining
      > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      > And
      > > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      > lower
      > > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      > running
      > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      > Conventus
      > > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would
      make
      > our
      > > > administration more efficient and our elections more
      competitive.
      > The
      > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      > number of
      > > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      > given an
      > > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      > separate
      > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      > to
      > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > >
      > > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to
      make
      > the
      > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      > better
      > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      > problem
      > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      > uncontested.
      > > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      > continue.
      > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      > Tribunes. What
      > > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill
      an
      > > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process
      by
      > which
      > > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices
      as
      > well,
      > > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      > will
      > > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      > more
      > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      > more
      > > > competitive.
      > > >
      > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have
      offered
      > the
      > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > > measures.
      > > >
      > > > Valete optime
      > > >
      > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > >
      > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58962 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Simple Roman calendar by e-mail, 11/10/2008, 12:00 am
      Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
       
      Title:   Simple Roman calendar by e-mail
       
      Date:   Monday November 10, 2008
      Time:   All Day
      Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
      Notes:   To get a simple Roman calendar with Religio Romana holidays listed by daily e-mail, send a message to fasti-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
       
      Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58964 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magist
      SALVE!
       
      Thanks for clarification.
       
      VALE BENE,
      IVL SABINVS

      "Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
      From: M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...>
      Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Comitia Plebis Tributa - Voting on plebiscita, contio for magistrates
      To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 2:01 AM

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis et
      > Quiritibus s. p. d.
      >
      > First, I must point out that the link from the website leads to the
      > cista for 2007. I hope that this is corrected shortly.

      Salve,

      With respect, no, it does not.

      The cista is open now only for the plebiscites, so the centuriate and
      popular assemblies are still closed from voting last year, hence you
      see "2007". The plebeian assembly is open and current, and so in that
      section you see "2008".

      When the other assemblies open for voting, the correct dates will
      appear. Until then, the dates of the last vote persist.

      optime vale

      Agricola


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58965 From: Maior Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      M. Hortensia A. Sergio Cincinnato spd:
      welcome and it is excellent to see such an ancient Roman gens as
      Sergia revived by citizens.

      I am a magistrate and civis of our big province America Austrorientalis
      living in Chapel Hill, NC. Our province is very active thanks to our
      great governor Fl.Galerius Aurelianus.If you need help or ideas for
      your state, just ask, we're happy to help you arrange real life events.
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/austrorientalis/

      and here is the new citizens page. Enter yourself and let's get
      everyone to organize by geography so we can find one another.
      http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Provincia_America_Austrorientalis_-
      _Citizens_%28Nova_Roma%29

      I expect to arrange a U.S. Conventus for 2009. It's time for Nova
      Romans in the u.s. to get together like our excellent provinces in
      Europe!
      Marca Hortensia Maior

      Senatrix
      Flaminica Carmentalis
      questrix Albucio
      sacerdos Mentis





      > >> > I am very excited
      > > to be here as I have always been a fan of Rome and her culture,
      and it
      > > just overwhelms me that there is such a place as this full of
      > > like-minded individuals, who are just as eager and interested,
      > > probably even more so!, as me. I look forward to doing everything
      I
      > > can for the betterment and advancement of the Res Publica and to
      > > working with you all.
      > >
      > > ATS: And we look forward to working with you as well.
      > > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58966 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      ---Pompeia_Minucia Strabo Luciae Liviae Plautae Tribuna Quiritibus
      Novae Romae S.P.D.



      In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:
      >
      > [...]
      >
      > Thank you.
      > I would like to point out again that I'm very much in favour of the
      > possibility to decide the number of magistrates (and also to extend or
      > modify their powers) by law, without having to modify the constitution
      > every time.

      Pompeia: I agree. But the criteria in question hasn't been adopted
      by any law, which could cause some problems. I applaud the good
      intentions, but without the legal criteria for same being established
      first , it's too much of a blank check. In any case, unless we see a
      major population explosion, I don't think we should alter the number
      of Praetors in NR, for reasons I talked about in an earlier post. If
      a legal criteria could be adopted for the number of certain
      magistracies according to the most recent Census perhaps...a certain
      percentage of Assiduis, or in the particular case of Tribunes, a given
      number of Tribunes per total number of Plebian citizens. But I think
      this should be spelled out first. We should table this and discuss
      this criteria imo.


      Nothing like a constitution ever existed in ancient Rome.
      >
      > True, as Lentulus says, we don't necessarily have to repeat every
      > mistake the ancient Romans made, in our eagerness to copy them, so we
      > might as well adopt a useful tool, like a constitution, that has been
      > invented later.

      Pompeia: I agree.
      >
      > But it has to be a tool, not a hindrance, not a weight that we have
      > to keep dragging around.

      Pompeia: Agree.
      >
      > Passing simple laws is easier than modifying the constitution, but it
      > still requires a majority of citizens to agree,

      Pompeia: It does in the Comitia Centuriata with legislation, and
      these proposals are being (as required) promulgated through this
      comitia. Good, because, unlike magisterial elections, if a century is
      tied on a lex, it does not pass. In the case of the Comitia Populi
      Tributa, ties in laws are decided by lot, as they are with magisterial
      elections. I was a Custos last year..and I can say that with one law
      passed last year, of 33 tribes voting for it, 10 tribal decisions were
      decided by lot, and I assure you in the fairest way possible...and the
      lex passed. This was the worst case scenerio with the Tribal laws, but
      shouldn't the same procedure be used as the Comitia Centuriata when
      voting in a lex..to wit, if it's a tie it doesn't pass. But, this is
      the way the system is written up.

      So passing laws is easier than the constitution, I agree, but I have
      to pause at the notion of our laws or magisterial election results (
      the latter in either comitia) being anywhere close to a majority will
      of the people. I'm glad the constitution is protected from frequent
      and trivial amendment with no lot drawing decisions and Senate
      ratification. To make a long story short, Tribuna et al, I think we
      need to take a look at our voting procedures before we draft
      constitutional amendments on the numbers of magistrates, the criteria
      for which is elusive.



      I furnished a Custos report to the Consuls in December of last year,re
      demographics of the last election, detailing the issues with our
      current election language with some suggestions (one of the few things
      I did as Accensus but I did that much). It is public information, but
      the demographics aren't routinely percentaged and reported. Maybe they
      should be?

      From this I can only applaud the proposal to remove the Sequential
      voting. It is a recipe for spoiled ballots, and has been a thorn in
      the _____. And I recognize the good historical intentions of its
      promulgants, I do...we learn as we go. I recognize that last year
      there may have been more spoiled ballots than usual due to the
      election having to be redone, but there are still way, way too many
      even when everything is organized and scheduled seamlessly.

      But this is only *part* of the problem in our election system:
      The other problem is the frequency with which ties are being broken

      We could say that the above is moot if there is no competition of
      candidates in an election, but when there is a race, or in determining
      the difference between Senior and Junior Consul, we have an issue:

      An astounding 46% (rounded down) of century decisions regarding
      magistrates were decided by lot last election...25% of these decisions
      in the first round; this round, in examining the system, is invariably
      impacted largely by the first class centuries. This is because many,
      if not most of the centuries in first class are small and even
      numbered,and have been for a few years (4 is a common membership
      size). So, I imagine that this percentage of lotting is not that
      proportionally different in other years.

      I understand the religious significance of ties being lotted, but do
      you think it happened this frequently with the centuries in antiquity?
      I think the tribes and centuries were just a *bit* larger back then
      :>) and there were far less mathematical chance of ties...I can
      imagine the rioting in the streets, bodily harm, and a much shorter
      history of the Roman Republic.

      In Nova Roma the tribes are larger than the centuries and I think
      this contributes to ties happening less frequently with the tribes;
      the issue is definitely worse in the Comitia Centuriata magisterial
      elections. But the point is, a *lex* in the tribal comitia can have
      strong support of random chance. Should it have?

      And our vote is supposed to carry more weight if you are a taxpayer....

      I think in our agenda we need to amend this prevailing legislation on
      how centuries are structured. I think we need to have a number of
      centuries according to the population (census) maybe...not be stuck at
      having 51 centuries, and divide them so that the centuries beginning
      from 1-the last are odd numbered to the extent possible, to avoid such
      frequent lotting.

      Here's the lex link:


      http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-08-01-i.html.

      We used to have 193 centuries, but went down to 51 in 2002 as the
      former number was completely unworkable...we learn as we go.

      Again, I applaud the removal of the sequential voting, but other
      disconcerting election system issues prevail which remain unaddressed.
      But alas, I can only advise, I can't legislate, and I guess I can
      whine to the Tribuna, and any one else who cares to read my rant.

      Valete Tribuna et Omnes










      so it's not as if we
      > would be moving to a regime of arbitrariety, and I'm sure the balance
      > among different magistracies can be kept by law as easily as by
      > constitution.



      http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2002-08-01-i.html
      >
      > Let's give ourselves a chance to have less or more magistrates,
      > according to what the situation requires!
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
      > >
      > > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p. d.
      > >
      > > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with the
      > > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      > > suggestion and make the substitution.
      > >
      > > Gratias tibi ago
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano
      > > S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be a
      > > > positive or negative thing.
      > > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      > > number
      > > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > > > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > > > separate law.
      > > >
      > > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      > > allow
      > > > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to change
      > > > the constitution every time.
      > > >
      > > > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      > > >
      > > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      > > elected
      > > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      > > with
      > > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > > > other magistrates:
      > > >
      > > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      > > >
      > > > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      > > >
      > > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > > > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      > > everybody
      > > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Optime vale.
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta
      > > >
      > > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > > >
      > > > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I think
      > > that
      > > > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      > > history
      > > > > very well.
      > > > >
      > > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      > > when
      > > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      > > Tribuni
      > > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      > > specifically to
      > > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      > > system we
      > > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > > > intercessio.
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      > > the
      > > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      > > again is
      > > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      > > system,
      > > > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      > > over
      > > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      > > actually
      > > > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni Plebis
      > > below
      > > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      > > in
      > > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      > > Tribunus.
      > > > > How historical is that?
      > > > >
      > > > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper role
      > > for
      > > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      > > Tribuni,
      > > > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last time
      > > I was
      > > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of the
      > > year.
      > > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      > > well
      > > > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      > > essentially
      > > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      > > buffer by
      > > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar with
      > > in
      > > > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then increase
      > > the
      > > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      > > not.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      > > attaining
      > > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      > > And
      > > > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      > > lower
      > > > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      > > running
      > > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      > > Conventus
      > > > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would make
      > > our
      > > > > administration more efficient and our elections more competitive.
      > > The
      > > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      > > number of
      > > > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      > > given an
      > > > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      > > separate
      > > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      > > to
      > > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to make
      > > the
      > > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      > > better
      > > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      > > problem
      > > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      > > uncontested.
      > > > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      > > continue.
      > > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      > > Tribunes. What
      > > > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill an
      > > > > important position. Competitive elections improves the process by
      > > which
      > > > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices as
      > > well,
      > > > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      > > will
      > > > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      > > more
      > > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      > > more
      > > > > competitive.
      > > > >
      > > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have offered
      > > the
      > > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > > > measures.
      > > > >
      > > > > Valete optime
      > > > >
      > > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > > >
      > > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58967 From: deciusiunius Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Vote no on the laws: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assembl
      Salvete cives,

      Having read the laws, I support those simplifying the voting
      procedure. The sequential voting has been a nightmare, as I have been
      saying since we adopted it.


      I see no compelling reason to adopt the laws that deal with amending
      the Constitution concerning the consuls, praetors and curule aediles.

      The law on censors is interesting, though I am curious. If the term of
      office is one year, and they are elected every other year, what
      happens if an issue arises in the second year that would require the
      issuance of notae to safeguard public morality? Perhaps I missed
      something in the law. (just as a matter of form, it's not a good idea
      to put the old text of the law and the new together in an edict like
      this. It can be confusing for citizens)

      The powers of the consuls are fine as laid out in the Constitution,
      there has been no need to add to them for a long time and if we have
      to, the Constitution can be amended to add powers. No sense making it
      too easy.

      The number of praetors is fine as laid out in the Constitution. It is
      highly unlikely we'll need more than two per year in the next five to
      10 years (we have enough fancy titles floating around and not enough
      people to fill them), so the idea must be to reduce the number of
      praetors to one, which goes against the collegial nature of Roman
      magistracies. However, if you want to reduce the number to one, I'd
      rather you come out and say so.

      Other than the law changing the office of censor, the laws about
      magistrates serve no real useful purpose that I can see. Vote no,
      citizens.


      Valete,

      Palladius,
      Senator censorius

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...> wrote:
      >
      > M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
      > Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae Quiritibus, et omnibus:
      > salutem plurimam dicunt: Cetera scire de se Dis immortalibus curae
      > esse
      >
      > The Comitia Centuriata is called to assemble to vote for the ordinary
      > Centuriate magistracies for calendar year ab urbem condita 2762.
      >
      > The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
      > Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 14
      > Nov.
      >
      > During the Contio the diribitores need to select and announce the
      > Centuria Praerogativa.
      >
      > Voting will then commence according to this schedule
      >
      > 07:00 hrs CET 15 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa alone
      > begins.
      > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria
      > Praerogativa.
      > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Voting by all First Class centuries now
      > permitted.
      > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First
      > Class centuries.
      > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
      > 16:00 hrs CET 23 November: All voting ends.
      >
      > The diribitores shall provide reports of the progress of the voting
      > in accordance with the provisions of the LEX FABIA DE RATIONE
      > COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM.
      >
      > The magistracies to be filled, and the candidates for these
      > magistracies are:
      >
      > -----------
      >
      > CENSOR (1 opening)
      >
      > Publius Constantinus Placidus
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=5934
      >
      > Titus Iulius Sabinus
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8092
      >
      >
      > C. Popillius Laenas
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=1781
      >
      > -----------
      >
      > CONSUL (2 openings)
      >
      > M. Iulius Severus
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8632
      >
      > Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=6159
      >
      > -----------
      >
      > PRAETOR (2 openings)
      >
      > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=2356
      >
      > P. Memmius Albucius
      > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7425
      >
      > -----------
      >
      > Si Dis placet, quod bonum faustum felixque sit
      >
      >
      > The following proposed leges Moravia Iulia are placed before the
      > Comitia Centuriata.
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the Lex
      > Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum be amended:
      >
      > I Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum
      >
      > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum is
      > amended the Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5. B which
      > reads:
      >
      > "In the case of a magisterial election, voting shall be sequential.
      >
      > 1. "A century from the first class shall be selected by lot by the
      > diribitores to vote first. No century containing only one member
      > shall be selected for this purpose. For the first 48 hours of the
      > voting period only members of that century shall be permitted to
      > vote."
      >
      > 2.
      > "Twenty-four (24) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
      > diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
      > according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
      > result no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the voting
      > period."
      >
      > 3.
      > "Forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
      > rest of the centuries in the first class shall be permitted to vote;
      > members of the century selected under B.1 above who have not yet
      > voted shall still be permitted to vote."
      >
      > 4
      > "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period, the
      > diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so far
      > according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce the
      > results no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
      > period."
      >
      > 5.
      > "One hundred twenty (120) hours after the beginning of the voting
      > period, everyone who is eligible to vote but has not yet done so
      > shall be permitted to vote. All voting shall cease no less than 216
      > hours after the beginning of the voting period."
      >
      >
      > The Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5.B is hereby
      > amended as follows:
      >
      > 5.B:
      > "In the case of magisterial elections, the voting period shall last
      > no fewer than 192 hours (8 days), with all centuries casting their
      > votes concurrently. Reports of the voting results shall be announced
      > sequentially.
      >
      > 1. "The Diribitores shall select by lot one century from among the
      > first class centuries to serve as the Centuria Praerogativa. No
      > century containing only one member shall be selected for this purpose.
      >
      > 2. "Within forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting
      > period, the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have
      > cast votes thus far in the Centuria Praerogativa, and shall announce
      > those results no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the
      > voting period.
      >
      > 3. "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
      > the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted
      > thus far, and shall announce the results of only the first class
      > centuries no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
      > period.
      >
      > 4. "All voting shall cease after no less than 192 hours (8 days) have
      > past and no more than 216 hours (9 days) have past after the
      > beginning of the voting period. The Diribitores shall then tally all
      > votes cast and within 48 hours later report the results solely to the
      > presiding magistrate and to his or her colleague as per 3.F."
      >
      >
      > NOTE: The purpose and intend of this proposal is to simplify the
      > voting procedure, whereby it shall be less confusing for our voters.
      > At the same time it retains the Centuria Praerogativa for augural
      > purposes and retains the sequential reporting of results.
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > II Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis
      >
      > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis the
      > Constitution, Article VI, on Public Religious Institutions, is hereby
      > replaced by the following Article VI.
      >
      > A. The Religio Romana, defined as the traditional worship of the
      > Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of Nova
      > Roma.
      >
      > B. The sacerdotal responsibilities for the State Religion of
      > Nova Roma shall be invested primarily into the Collegium Pontificum
      > and the Collegium Augurum.
      >
      > 1. The Collegium Pontificum shall consist of the Rex and Regina
      > Sacrorum, the Flamens, Flaminicas, Pontifices, and the Sacerdotes
      > Vestales, co-opted by the Collegium Pontificum itself, under its own
      > governing rules. The Collegium Pontificum shall be responsible for
      > the conduct and administration of all public religious ceremonies
      > other than those rites assigned to the Augurs. To that purpose, the
      > Collegium Pontificum may create sacerdotal offices, sodalitates, and
      > collegia.
      >
      > 2. The Collegium Augurum shall consist of all public Augurs who
      > are co-opted by the Collegium Augurum itself, under its own governing
      > rules. The individual members of the Collegium Augurium shall be
      > responsible for instructing and advising curule
      > magistrates on performing auspicia on behalf of Nova Roma. In other
      > religious ceremonies the Augures shall perform their traditional
      > responsibilities. The Collegium Augurum may create sacerdotal offices
      > and sodalitates that are specifically related to the conduct and
      > administration of its responsibilities.
      >
      > C. Additional sacerdotal collegia may be instituted and their
      > rules set by the Collegium Pontificum, with the approval of the
      > Comitia Centuriata.
      >
      > NOTE: The purpose and intent of this amendment is to simplify the
      > language of the Constitution, retore a more historical model of the
      > Collegia by making them independent of one another, and gives each
      > Collegia more flexibility in determining how the institutions of the
      > religio Romana should develop. At the same time it places some
      > measure of review by the Comitia Centuriata over the decisions of the
      > Collegium Pontificum in regard to establishing new sacerdotal
      > collegia.
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      > NOTE: Proposals III through IX concern the Magistrates. These
      > proposals amend the Constitution by adding in language that allow the
      > Comitia to set additional responsibilities and powers for the
      > respective magistrates, or limit these, through passage of leges
      > rather than resorting to amending the Constitution. They also allow
      > the Comitia to determine and change the number of certain
      > magistrates, as needed. This will give us a greater degree of
      > flexibility in addressing issues as they arise in the future. These
      > proposals will also lead to a more historical model of a
      > constitution, since such issues were determined by Comitia and not by
      > a Constitution per se. The biggest change comes with the Censors.
      > The proposed Lex de censoribus will make this office more historical
      > by having two Censores elected together to conduct a census once
      > every two years. Historically censores were elected only once every
      > five years and held office for only eighteen months. We propose to
      > have a one year term and censors elected every other year. Combined
      > with the other proposals, which can allow the Comitia to reduce the
      > number of magistrates to what is sufficient and needed, the Consuls
      > hope to address the continual problem of having too many offices, not
      > enough candidates for those offices, and then having magistrates
      > elected with no duties assigned to them. In regard to the Censors,
      > much of their former duties have been taken over by our Rogatores,
      > and the main function of the Censors now is to conduct the biennial
      > census. From the census is determined the size of the Senate, and
      > the Censors thus retain their powers to adlect new Senators and/or
      > remove members of the Senate. By reducing their term to one year,
      > which is more than sufficient to complete their duties, we will
      > conceivably provide ourselves with additional qualified candidates in
      > other offices.
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      >
      > III Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus
      >
      > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus is amended the Constitution,
      > Article IV.A, paragraph 1, which is:
      >
      > IV.A.1: Censor. "Two censors shall be elected by the comitia
      > centuriata to serve a term lasting two years, to be elected in
      > alternate years so as to have a one-year overlap of terms. They shall
      > have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > a. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
      > in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to engage
      > (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
      > b. To maintain the album civium (list of citizens), including the
      > tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law, and
      > other appropriate information regarding them;
      > c. To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and appropriate
      > information regarding them;
      > d. To maintain the album senatorum (list of Senators), including the
      > power to add and remove names on that list according to
      > qualifications set by law;
      > e. To maintain the album equestrium (lists of members of the
      > equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on
      > that list;
      > f. To safeguard the public morality and honor through the collegial
      > administering of notae;
      > 1. A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient to deprive
      > that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
      > removed;
      > 2. A nota against a member of the Senate is sufficient to remove that
      > individual from the Senate until such time as it is removed.
      > g. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > other tasks, as they shall see fit."
      >
      > Hereby shall IV.A.1 be amended to:
      >
      > IV.A.1: Censor: "In any year following the conduct of a census two
      > censors shall be elected by the comitia centuriata to serve a
      > collegial term lasting one year in the year following thereafter.
      > That is, two censors shall be elected together once every two years.
      > They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > a. To conduct the census.
      > b. To insure that the Album Civium is updated in accordance with the
      > results of the census.
      > c. To oversee the Album Senatorum (list of current Senators),
      > including the power to add and remove names on that list according to
      > qualifications set by law;
      > d. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those tasks
      > in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to
      > engage. Their edicts shall be binding upon themselves as well as on
      > others.
      > e. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > other tasks, as they shall see fit
      > f. As conservators of public morality and civic honor, to administer
      > notae.
      >
      > 1. A nota may admonish a citizen for improper conduct, without any
      > explicit penalty.
      > 2. A nota may reassign a citizen to a different tribe, including to
      > urban tribes reserved for capiti censi or to the aerari for those
      > without a tribe, thus depriving the aerarian citizen of a vote in any
      > tribal assembly.
      > 3. A nota may reassign a citizen to a century in any class, including
      > to the last century of the Comitia Centuriata, which is reserved for
      > capiti censi.
      > 4. A nota against a member of the Senate may additionally impose
      > ejectio e senatu (removal from the senate).
      > 5. A nota may only be lifted by the Censors; either those Censors who
      > imposed it or their successors.
      >
      > g. To conduct the Lustrum as their final official act before leaving
      > office.
      >
      > h. All official censorial actions must be collegial. That is, both
      > censors must agree on any official action. If one censor becomes
      > unable to continue to serve in office, the censura (term of office of
      > both censors) ends immediately and his or her colleague must resign
      > the office of censor."
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus shall become effective as of
      > the Kalends of January AUC 2762. The candidate who is elected to
      > serve in the term beginning AUC 1 January 2762 to 31 December 2763
      > shall have his term instead designated as lasting from AUC 1 January
      > until 31 December 2762. There shall not be an alteration to the
      > century points received for this curtailed term, but remain at the
      > same amount as though the two-year term had been served.
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      >
      > IV Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus
      >
      > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus is amended the first
      > paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 2, which is:
      >
      > "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata to
      > serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors,
      > powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > Hereby shall the first paragraph of IV.A.2 be amended to:
      >
      > IV.A.2: Consuls: "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the
      > Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. Their powers and
      > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
      > Comitia Centuriata. In addition the Consuls shall have the following
      > honors, powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus shall become effective as of
      > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > V Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus
      >
      > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus is amended the first
      > paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 3, which is:
      >
      > IV.A.3: Praetor. "Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia
      > Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the
      > following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > Hereby shall IV.A.3 be amended to:
      >
      > IV.A.3: Praetor. "A number of Praetors, determined by law, shall be
      > elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year.
      > The number of praetors, their powers, and their areas of
      > responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the Comitia
      > Centuriata. In addition the praetores shall have the following
      > honors, powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus shall become effective as of
      > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > VI Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus
      >
      > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibusis amended the
      > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 4, which is:
      >
      > 4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aediles). "Two curule aediles shall be
      > elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one
      > year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > a. To hold Imperium;
      > b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
      > public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at
      > public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
      > facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the law
      > (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
      > c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
      > plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
      > d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > other tasks, as they shall see fit.
      > e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
      > commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
      > Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
      > Censors."
      >
      > Hereby is IV.A.4 amended to IV.A.5 as follows:
      >
      > IV.A.5: Aedilis Curulis: "A number of Aediles Curules, determined by
      > law, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa to serve a term
      > lasting one year. The number of Aediles Curules, their powers, and
      > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
      > Comitia Populi Tributa. In addition the Aediles Curules shall have
      > the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      >
      > a. To administer any funds assigned to him or her by the Senate and
      > to see to the maintenance of any real property and/or public
      > facilities owned by Nova Roma;
      > b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to conduct the public
      > games and other festivals and gatherings, and to ensure order at
      > public religious events. Their edicts shall be binding upon
      > themselves as equally as on others;
      > c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
      > plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
      > d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > other tasks, as they shall see fit.
      > e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
      > commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of the
      > Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
      > Censors."
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus shall become
      > effective as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > VII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis
      >
      > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis is amended the
      > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 5, which is:
      >
      > IV.A.5: Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). "Two plebeian aediles shall
      > be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting one
      > year. They must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the
      > following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > Hereby shall IV.A.5 be amended to IV.A.6 and its first paragraph is
      > amended as follows:
      >
      > IV.A.6: Aediles Plebis: "A number of Aediles Plebiss, determined by
      > law, shall be elected by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
      > lasting one year. The number of Aediles Plebis, their powers, and
      > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the
      > Comitia Plebis Tributa. In addition the Aediles Plebis shall have
      > the following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis shall become effective
      > as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > VIII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus
      >
      > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus is amended the
      > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 6, which is:
      >
      > IV.A.6: Quaestor. "A number of quaestors shall be elected by the
      > comitia populi tributa equal to the number of consuls, praetors, and
      > aediles to serve a term lasting one year. One quaestor shall be
      > assigned to each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if such
      > cannot be made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They shall
      > have the power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
      > allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
      > supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
      > quaestors assigned directly to the consuls shall supervise the whole
      > of the aerarium (treasury), but no funds may be spent without the
      > prior approval of the Senate."
      >
      > Hereby shall IV.A.6 be amended to:
      >
      > IV.A.7: Quaestor. "A number of Quaestors, determined by law enacted
      > by the Comitia Populi Tributa, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi
      > Tributa to serve a term lasting one year. Quaestors shall be assigned
      > duties by the Consuls acting collegially. Quaestors shall have the
      > power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
      > allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
      > supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
      > Quaestors assigned directly to the Consuls shall supervise the whole
      > of the aerarium (treasury), as well as oversee other Quaestors, and
      > ensure that no Nova Roma funds may be spent without the prior
      > approval of the Senate and authorization by a curule magistrate.
      > (That is, authorization from one of the Consuls, Praetors, or Aediles
      > Curules)."
      >
      > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus shall become effective as of
      > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > ____________________
      >
      >
      > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      >
      > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following lex:
      >
      > IX Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis
      >
      > 1. In the order of authority among the ordinarii magistrates, the
      > Tribuni Plebis shall be placed in fourth position, behind the
      > Praetors.
      >
      > 2. Therefore, the Constitution, Article IV, Section A, Paragraph 7,
      > is reassigned as Article IV, Part A, Section 4 with the other
      > sections in Part A following in numerical order.
      >
      > 3. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis is amended the
      > Constitution, Article IV, Part A, Section 7, where it begins:
      >
      > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Five tribunes of the plebs
      > shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term
      > lasting one year."
      >
      > Hereby shall IV.A.7 be amended to IV.A.4 as follows:
      >
      > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribunes of the Plebeians): Three (3) tribunes of
      > the plebs shall be elected by the Comitia Pplebis Ttributa to serve a
      > term lasting one year."
      >
      > 4. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis shall become effective as
      > of the Kalends of January AUC 2762 and thus shall apply to those
      > individuals who are elected as Tribuni Plebis that same year to begin
      > their terms in December AUC 2762.
      >
      >
      > Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58968 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: JOB: Latin @ UMich
      FYI

      The Department of Classical Studies at the University of Michigan is seeking
      to appoint an Assistant or Associate Professor in Latin. The person
      appointed will be an active contributor to interdepartmental graduate
      programs in Greek and Roman History and in Classical Art and Archaeology. We
      are looking for candidates with research interests in historiography,
      history, religion, or rhetoric, especially of the Republic. We welcome both
      traditional and innovative approaches to Latin prose and its contexts, but
      since we have recently hired faculty in Latin poetry, we are not seeking
      applicants in that area. Teaching responsibilities will include classical
      civilization and Greek courses as well as Latin literature and Roman culture
      at all levels. Please see http://www.umich.edu/~classics/news.html for a
      fuller description of the position.

      PhD must be completed by August 2009. Please send a dossier including a
      letter of application, at least three letters of recommendation, current CV,
      evidence of teaching experience, statement of current and future research
      plans, statement of teaching goals and experience, and a writing sample to
      the Latin Search Committee, Department of Classical Studies, University of
      Michigan, 2160 Angell Hall, 435 S. State St., Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1003, or
      as pdf to lsa-classics-search AT umich.edu by November 15, 2008. Women and
      minorities are encouraged to apply. The University of Michigan is an Equal
      Opportunity Affirmative Action employer.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58969 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-09
      Subject: Today in Rome: Nov 10, 2008.
      C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,
       
      Today in Rome :
       
      (Julian day : 2 454 781).
       
      A.d. IV Idus Novembres
      MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
      Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.
       
      Day of the week : Lunae dies (Monday).
       
      Lunaris dies: XIV.
      Nundinal letter : B.
       
      Hora ortus Solis : 06:52.
      Hora occasus Solis : 16:54.
      Temp. Min. : 7° C.
      Temp. Max. : 18° C.
      Wind on Rome : 12 Km/h.
      Humidity: 70 %.
      Weather : More sun than clouds. Mild.
       
      Horae diei :
       
      I: 06:52 - 07:43 Iovis hora.
      II: 07:43 - 08:34 Martis hora.
      III: 08:34 - 09:26 Solis hora.
      IV: 09:26 - 10:17 Veneris hora.
      V: 10:17 - 11:08 Mercurii hora.
      VI: 11:08 - 12:00 Lunae hora.
      VII: 12:00 - 12:49 Saturni hora.
      VIII: 12:49 - 13:38 Iovis hora.
      IX: 13:38 - 14:27 Martis hora.
      X: 14:27 - 15:16 Solis hora.
      XI: 15:16 - 16:05 Veneris hora.
      XII: 16:05 - 16:54 Mercurii hora.
       

      Horae noctis :
       
      I: 16:54 - 18:05 Lunae hora.
      II: 18:05 - 19:16 Saturni hora.
      III: 19:16 - 20:27 Iovis hora.
      IV: 20:27 - 21:38 Martis hora.
      V: 21:38 - 22:49 Solis hora.
      VI: 22:49 - 00:00 Veneris hora.
      VII: 00:00 - 01:09 Mercurii hora.
      VIII: 01:09 - 02:18 Lunae hora.
      IX: 02:18 - 03:27 Saturni hora.
      X: 03:27 - 04:36 Iovis hora.
      XI: 04:36 - 05:45 Martis hora.
      XII: 05:45 - 06:54 Solis hora.
       

       
      Valete.
       
      C. Petronius Dexter.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58970 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      C. Petronius T. Flavio tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,

      I am not surprised that a Tribune of the Plebs is against an other
      Tribune of the Plebs, but I am surprised that you call us Olebeian
      citizens to vote "No".

      You rather must use your "Veto" right, if all the tribunes do not
      aggree a law proposed by one of them, a vote is not desirable.

      Because you, as tribune of the Plebs, call us to vote no, I, plebeian
      voter, voted no. If one tribune is against, it is enough to
      vote "no".

      I am against a personal power, and like the Romans did, I am against
      one man in one place. I prefer the collegial functions. If we did not
      precise the number of persons which can hold a magistracie (never
      one), like the tribunat of plebs, we could have only one Tribune of
      the Plebs! It would be the beginning of the Terror.

      If you are against the laws of this plebiscit, you must use
      your "Veto".

      Vale

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58971 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,

      > welcome and it is excellent to see such an ancient Roman gens as
      > Sergia revived by citizens.

      A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the gens Sergia. He
      is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman Sergii, from
      Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.

      Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is famous Sergius name
      and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not registered by our
      censors into the Patrician order!

      Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at this bad
      treatment done by our censors. ;o)

      Vale.

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58972 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes & lex Moravia Iulia
      T.Flavius C.Petronius s.p.d.
       
      Thank you for your response. The aim of my statement to vote NO was a first warning, so to say, to call upon the Plebeians and their awareness.
      I would like to involve the Plebeians as much as possible, I want to find out , what the Plebeians think about the proposed law, before using my most powerful tool.
       
      But be assured , that I will take my decision as necessary if I see that the proposed changes will do more harm than good.
       
      I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance to alter the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received criticism or to withdraw it completely and have it discussed and elaborated in detail.
       
      Optime vale
      Titus Flavius Aquila
      Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma


      Von: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
      An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Gesendet: Montag, den 10. November 2008, 06:13:25 Uhr
      Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes

      C. Petronius T. Flavio tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,

      I am not surprised that a Tribune of the Plebs is against an other
      Tribune of the Plebs, but I am surprised that you call us Olebeian
      citizens to vote "No".

      You rather must use your "Veto" right, if all the tribunes do not
      aggree a law proposed by one of them, a vote is not desirable.

      Because you, as tribune of the Plebs, call us to vote no, I, plebeian
      voter, voted no. If one tribune is against, it is enough to
      vote "no".

      I am against a personal power, and like the Romans did, I am against
      one man in one place. I prefer the collegial functions. If we did not
      precise the number of persons which can hold a magistracie (never
      one), like the tribunat of plebs, we could have only one Tribune of
      the Plebs! It would be the beginning of the Terror.

      If you are against the laws of this plebiscit, you must use
      your "Veto".

      Vale

      C. Petronius Dexter


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58973 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      Salvete Pompeia Senator, Salvete Omnes,
       

      thank you very much for your response Senator Pompeia. 
       
      Be assured your comment concerning the Praetores have been well noted.
         
      I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance to alter the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received criticism or to withdraw it completely and have it discussed and elaborated in detail.
       
      I am ready to act. I am prepared for any action necessary.
       
      Optime vale
      Titus Flavius Aquila
      Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma


      Von: pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
      An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 22:53:30 Uhr
      Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)

      ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:

      I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes regarding
      legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian magistrates. The
      Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact that you
      should have been consulted.

      I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls because I've been
      away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any century points
      (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on to a similar
      problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.

      I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a number of
      Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I would hate
      to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of a colleague because we
      are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a full
      historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see somebody
      justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's historical'.

      And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      sublection as Senators...it' s just a matter of time...depends on when
      the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom the Censors
      might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past service in
      NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The Censors can
      wish and get in line behind the Praetores.

      This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I can see where it
      could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      uncomfortable as being part of the constitution.

      I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.

      Valete
      Pompeia

      In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:

      >
      > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino
      Horatiano S.P.D.
      >
      > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a possible
      solution.
      >
      > But how can we be certain that everything is done as needed ? With
      no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want to change
      the number of magistrates, do we want a constant fluctuation ? I
      still say all of this is too vague and needs to be discussed in
      detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      an consuls term.
      >
      > I am still willing to veto this for the following reasons,
      >  
      > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > 2. because you have not consulted all of the magistrates to
      eleborate the draft before publishing it
      >  
      > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      your substitution and changes , especially for the Tribuni Plebi
      section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      >  
      > In general I thought we had a change in culture , involving all
      Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an impact ?
      >  
      > Optime vale
      > Titus Flavius Aquila
      >
      > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@. ..>
      > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      >
      >
      > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s. p.
      d.
      >
      > Your suggestion is
      practical and beneficial while consistent with
      the
      > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      > suggestion and make the substitution.
      >
      > Gratias tibi ago
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino
      Horatiano
      > S.P.D.
      > >
      > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will be
      a
      > > positive or negative thing.
      > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      > number
      > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing a
      > > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > > separate law.
      > >
      > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      >
      allow
      > > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to
      change
      > > the constitution every time.
      > >
      > > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      > >
      > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your proposed
      > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      > elected
      > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year.")
      > with
      > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed for
      > > other magistrates:
      > >
      > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by the
      > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      > >
      > > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > > number of
      Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      > >
      > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals from
      > > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      > everybody
      > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > >
      > >
      > > Optime vale.
      > >
      > > L. Livia Plauta
      > >
      > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > >
      > > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I
      think
      > that
      > > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and the
      > > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      > history
      > > > very well.
      > > >
      > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time was
      > when
      > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      >
      Tribuni
      > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      > specifically to
      > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      > system we
      > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > > intercessio.
      > > >
      > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities of
      > the
      > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      > again is
      > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      > system,
      > > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really have
      > over
      > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      > actually
      > > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > > >
      > > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed
      the Tribuni
      Plebis
      > below
      > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became that
      > in
      > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      > Tribunus.
      > > > How historical is that?
      > > >
      > > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper
      role
      > for
      > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number of
      > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      > Tribuni,
      > > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last
      time
      > I was
      > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of
      the
      > year.
      > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa,
      Suetonius and I did
      > well
      > > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      > essentially
      > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      > buffer by
      > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is not
      > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar
      with
      > in
      > > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then
      increase
      > the
      > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of course
      > not.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      > former
      > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      > former
      > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      > attaining
      > > > enough
      candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this year's
      > > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all offices.
      > And
      > > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      > lower
      > > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep things
      > running
      > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      > Conventus
      > > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would
      make
      > our
      > > > administration more efficient and our elections more
      competitive.
      > The
      > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      > number of
      > > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis, were
      > given an
      > > > opportunity to review
      the legislation. Although placed into
      > separate
      > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are intended
      > to
      > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > >
      > > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to
      make
      > the
      > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      > better
      > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      > problem
      > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      > uncontested.
      > > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      > continue.
      > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      > Tribunes. What
      > > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to fill
      an
      > > > important position. Competitive elections improves the
      process
      by
      > which
      > > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other offices
      as
      > well,
      > > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      > will
      > > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices where
      > more
      > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall become
      > more
      > > > competitive.
      > > >
      > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of our
      > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have
      offered
      > the
      > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve those
      > > > measures.
      > > >
      > > > Valete optime
      > > >
      > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > >
      > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova
      Romae
      > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > >
      > >
      >


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58974 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: When no censors are in office
      Salve Palladi,

      deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> writes:

      > The law on censors is interesting, though I am curious. If the term of
      > office is one year, and they are elected every other year, what
      > happens if an issue arises in the second year that would require the
      > issuance of notae to safeguard public morality?

      It waits until the next censuria, just like in antiquity. Even in our
      Republic, notae have often been issued long after the events for which
      they were inspired. Until then matters can be addressed by the
      praetors and consuls under law.

      The real point here is to get away from having censors in office all
      the time, and to get back to a system where the censors are elected
      collegially.

      Vale,

      CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58975 From: marcushoratius Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: a. d. IV Eidus Novembris: The Samnite War
      M. Moravius Piscinus cultoribus Deorum, Quiritibus et omnibus
      salutem plurimam dicit: Di vos servent cum vester.

      Hodie est ante diem IIII Eidus Novembris; haec dies comitialis est:

      AUC 432 / 321 BCE: The Samnite War

      "Next, moved by the prayers of the Campanians, the Romans attacked
      the Samnites, not on their own behalf but, what is more honorable, on
      that of their allies. A treaty had been made with both nations, but
      that made with the Campanians was more formal and older, having been
      accompanied by the surrender of all their possessions. Thus the
      Romans entered upon war with the Samnites as though they were
      fighting for themselves. The district of Campania is the fairest of
      all regions not only in Italy but in the whole world. Nothing can be
      softer than its climate: indeed it has spring and its flowers twice a
      year. Nowhere is the soil more fertile; for which reason it is said
      to have been an object of contention between Liber and Ceres. Nowhere
      is the coast more hospitable, which contains the famous harbors of
      Caieta, Misenus, Baiae with its hot springs, and the Lucrine and
      Avernian Lakes where the sea seems to enjoy perpetual repose. Here
      are the vine-clad mountains of Gaurus, Falernus and Massicus, and
      Vesuvius, the fairest of them all, which rivals the fires of Etna.
      Towards the sea-coast lie the cities of Formiae, Cumae, Puteoli,
      Naples, Herculaneum and Pompeii, and Capua, queen among cities,
      formerly accounted among the three greatest in the world. It was on
      behalf of this city and these regions that the Roman people attacked
      the Samnites, a race which, if you would know its wealth, was clad,
      even to the point of ostentation, in gold and silver armor and motley-
      colored raiment; if you would learn its craft, it usually attacked
      its foes from its defiles and the ambushes of its mountains; if you
      would know its rage and fury, it was hounded on by its hallowed laws
      and human sacrifices to destroy our city; if you would know its
      obstinacy, it had been exasperated by a treaty six times broken and
      by its very disasters. In fifty years, however, under the leadership
      of two generations of the Fabii and Papirii, the Romans so thoroughly
      subdued and conquered this people and so demolished the very ruins of
      their cities that to day one looks round to see where Samnium is on
      Samnite territory, and it is difficult to imagine how there can have
      been material for twenty-four triumphs over them. Yet a most notable
      and signal defeat was sustained at the hands of this nation at the
      Caudine Forks in the consulship of Veturius and Postumius. The Roman
      army having been entrapped by an ambush in that defile and being
      unable to escape, Pontius the commander of the enemies' forces,
      dumbfounded at the opportunity offered to him, asked the advice of
      his father Herennius. The latter, with the wisdom of advanced years,
      had advised him either to let them all go free or else to slay them
      all; Pontius preferred to strip them of their arms and send them
      under the yoke, so that they were not made his friends by an act of
      kindness but rendered bitterer enemies by the affront put upon them.
      The result was that the consuls by a generous act of devotion
      immediately wiped out the disgrace of the treaty by voluntarily
      surrendering themselves; and the soldiers, under the leadership of
      Papirius, calling for vengeance, rushed furiously along (horrible to
      relate) with their swords drawn as they advanced before they came to
      blows, and, when the encounter took place, the enemy affirmed that
      the eyes of all the Romans blazed with fire. Nor was an end put to
      the slaughter until they retaliated by making the enemy and the
      captured general pass under the yoke." ~ Florus, Epitome of Roman
      History 1.16


      An Epicurian view of the World

      "The universe is a house very beautiful and divine, constructed by
      the gods; that just as we see houses built by men who are called
      prosperous and wealthy, with portals and columns, and the roof,
      walls, and doors adorned with gold and with paintings, in the same
      way the universe has been made to give entertainment and good cheer
      to mankind, beauteous and bespangled with stars, sun, moon, land,
      sea, and plants, all these being, indeed, portions of the wealth of
      the gods and specimens of their handiwork. Into this universe comes
      mankind to hold high festival, having been invited by the king of the
      gods to a most splendid feast and banquet that they may enjoy all
      blessings." ~ Dio Chrysotom, Discourses 28-29 (see also Cicero, De
      Natura Deorum 2.39.98-101


      For today's thought we then turn to a Stoic view from Marcus
      Aurelius, Meditations 4.40:

      "Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one
      substance and one soul; and observe how all things have reference to
      one perception, the perception of this one living being; and how all
      things act with one movement; and how all things are the cooperating
      causes of all things which exist; observe too the continuous spinning
      of the thread and the contexture of the matrix."
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58976 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Vote no on the laws: Re: The COMITIA CENTURIATA is CALLED to assembl
      ---Salve Palladius Senator, Salvete Omnes:



      In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >[...]
      >
      > The law on censors is interesting, though I am curious. If the term
      of
      > office is one year, and they are elected every other year, what
      > happens if an issue arises in the second year that would require the
      > issuance of notae to safeguard public morality?


      Pompeia: You raise an interesting point.

      Here's the scenio from another perspective: An individual who has
      had a nota issued him by the Censors could potentially wait upwards
      of two years before it is even reassessed, depending of course of
      when the nota was issued.

      And the Tribunes may legally veto a nota (although not historical but
      they 'can' in NR) but this gets tricky for them, because they are
      dealing with a judgement of morality, so unless the grounds are
      obviously false, our Tribunes don't have a lot to say about it.
      Appeals avenues are available through comitia, but, one still has to
      wait for Censors to rescind the nota.

      Let's hope the notarized person deserves to be penalized for so long.
      This is the new proposed nota language:


      " A nota may reassign a citizen to a different tribe, including to
      urban tribes reserved for capiti censi or to the aerari for those
      without a tribe, thus depriving the aerarian citizen of a vote in any
      tribal assembly.
      3. A nota may reassign a citizen to a century in any class, including
      to the last century of the Comitia Centuriata, which is reserved for
      capiti censi"

      Pompeia: The above capite censi affiliation could deny a citizen the
      right to run for office, for upwards of two years, as I read it.
      (Unless the punishment is just intended to be the sheer indignity of
      being in a tribe or century 'reserved for the capiti censi' but I
      don't think so :>))
      We've seen a handful of citizens over the years whom I might think
      deserve not to run for office, admittedly...but they are not abundant
      in number, fortunately. And given that this might be a 'long
      haul',before reassessment,again, I sure hope a notarized citizen
      truly deserves such a harsh, lengthy punishment, with such limited
      appeal.

      I would be less worried of the above nota language if we had Censors
      around all the time, but not if they are going to be in office q 2
      years.



      Valete






      Perhaps I missed
      > something in the law. (just as a matter of form, it's not a good
      idea
      > to put the old text of the law and the new together in an edict like
      > this. It can be confusing for citizens)
      >
      > The powers of the consuls are fine as laid out in the Constitution,
      > there has been no need to add to them for a long time and if we have
      > to, the Constitution can be amended to add powers. No sense making
      it
      > too easy.
      >
      > The number of praetors is fine as laid out in the Constitution. It
      is
      > highly unlikely we'll need more than two per year in the next five
      to
      > 10 years (we have enough fancy titles floating around and not enough
      > people to fill them), so the idea must be to reduce the number of
      > praetors to one, which goes against the collegial nature of Roman
      > magistracies. However, if you want to reduce the number to one, I'd
      > rather you come out and say so.
      >
      > Other than the law changing the office of censor, the laws about
      > magistrates serve no real useful purpose that I can see. Vote no,
      > citizens.
      >
      >
      > Valete,
      >
      > Palladius,
      > Senator censorius
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Consul: Senatui Populoque Novo
      > > Romano, T. Iulio Sabino Consuli collegae Quiritibus, et omnibus:
      > > salutem plurimam dicunt: Cetera scire de se Dis immortalibus
      curae
      > > esse
      > >
      > > The Comitia Centuriata is called to assemble to vote for the
      ordinary
      > > Centuriate magistracies for calendar year ab urbem condita 2762.
      > >
      > > The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European
      > > Time), on 9 Nov. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on
      14
      > > Nov.
      > >
      > > During the Contio the diribitores need to select and announce the
      > > Centuria Praerogativa.
      > >
      > > Voting will then commence according to this schedule
      > >
      > > 07:00 hrs CET 15 November: Voting by the Centuria Praerogativa
      alone
      > > begins.
      > > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Diribitores capture tally of Centuria
      > > Praerogativa.
      > > 07:00 hrs CET 17 November: Voting by all First Class centuries
      now
      > > permitted.
      > > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Diribitores capture tally of all First
      > > Class centuries.
      > > 07:00 hrs CET 20 November: Voting by all centuries now permitted.
      > > 16:00 hrs CET 23 November: All voting ends.
      > >
      > > The diribitores shall provide reports of the progress of the
      voting
      > > in accordance with the provisions of the LEX FABIA DE RATIONE
      > > COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM.
      > >
      > > The magistracies to be filled, and the candidates for these
      > > magistracies are:
      > >
      > > -----------
      > >
      > > CENSOR (1 opening)
      > >
      > > Publius Constantinus Placidus
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=5934
      > >
      > > Titus Iulius Sabinus
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8092
      > >
      > >
      > > C. Popillius Laenas
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=1781
      > >
      > > -----------
      > >
      > > CONSUL (2 openings)
      > >
      > > M. Iulius Severus
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=8632
      > >
      > > Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=6159
      > >
      > > -----------
      > >
      > > PRAETOR (2 openings)
      > >
      > > Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=2356
      > >
      > > P. Memmius Albucius
      > > http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=7425
      > >
      > > -----------
      > >
      > > Si Dis placet, quod bonum faustum felixque sit
      > >
      > >
      > > The following proposed leges Moravia Iulia are placed before the
      > > Comitia Centuriata.
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the Lex
      > > Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum be amended:
      > >
      > > I Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum
      > >
      > > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum is
      > > amended the Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5. B
      which
      > > reads:
      > >
      > > "In the case of a magisterial election, voting shall be
      sequential.
      > >
      > > 1. "A century from the first class shall be selected by lot by
      the
      > > diribitores to vote first. No century containing only one member
      > > shall be selected for this purpose. For the first 48 hours of the
      > > voting period only members of that century shall be permitted to
      > > vote."
      > >
      > > 2.
      > > "Twenty-four (24) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
      the
      > > diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so
      far
      > > according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce
      the
      > > result no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the voting
      > > period."
      > >
      > > 3.
      > > "Forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
      the
      > > rest of the centuries in the first class shall be permitted to
      vote;
      > > members of the century selected under B.1 above who have not yet
      > > voted shall still be permitted to vote."
      > >
      > > 4
      > > "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting period,
      the
      > > diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted so
      far
      > > according to the method set out in A.1 above, and shall announce
      the
      > > results no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the voting
      > > period."
      > >
      > > 5.
      > > "One hundred twenty (120) hours after the beginning of the voting
      > > period, everyone who is eligible to vote but has not yet done so
      > > shall be permitted to vote. All voting shall cease no less than
      216
      > > hours after the beginning of the voting period."
      > >
      > >
      > > The Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum 5.B is hereby
      > > amended as follows:
      > >
      > > 5.B:
      > > "In the case of magisterial elections, the voting period shall
      last
      > > no fewer than 192 hours (8 days), with all centuries casting
      their
      > > votes concurrently. Reports of the voting results shall be
      announced
      > > sequentially.
      > >
      > > 1. "The Diribitores shall select by lot one century from among
      the
      > > first class centuries to serve as the Centuria Praerogativa. No
      > > century containing only one member shall be selected for this
      purpose.
      > >
      > > 2. "Within forty-eight (48) hours after the beginning of the
      voting
      > > period, the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who
      have
      > > cast votes thus far in the Centuria Praerogativa, and shall
      announce
      > > those results no later than 48 hours after the beginning of the
      > > voting period.
      > >
      > > 3. "Ninety-six (96) hours after the beginning of the voting
      period,
      > > the Diribitores shall tally the votes of all those who have voted
      > > thus far, and shall announce the results of only the first class
      > > centuries no later than 120 hours after the beginning of the
      voting
      > > period.
      > >
      > > 4. "All voting shall cease after no less than 192 hours (8 days)
      have
      > > past and no more than 216 hours (9 days) have past after the
      > > beginning of the voting period. The Diribitores shall then tally
      all
      > > votes cast and within 48 hours later report the results solely to
      the
      > > presiding magistrate and to his or her colleague as per 3.F."
      > >
      > >
      > > NOTE: The purpose and intend of this proposal is to simplify the
      > > voting procedure, whereby it shall be less confusing for our
      voters.
      > > At the same time it retains the Centuria Praerogativa for augural
      > > purposes and retains the sequential reporting of results.
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > II Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis
      > >
      > > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis the
      > > Constitution, Article VI, on Public Religious Institutions, is
      hereby
      > > replaced by the following Article VI.
      > >
      > > A. The Religio Romana, defined as the traditional worship of the
      > > Gods and Goddesses of Rome, shall be the official religion of
      Nova
      > > Roma.
      > >
      > > B. The sacerdotal responsibilities for the State Religion of
      > > Nova Roma shall be invested primarily into the Collegium
      Pontificum
      > > and the Collegium Augurum.
      > >
      > > 1. The Collegium Pontificum shall consist of the Rex and Regina
      > > Sacrorum, the Flamens, Flaminicas, Pontifices, and the Sacerdotes
      > > Vestales, co-opted by the Collegium Pontificum itself, under its
      own
      > > governing rules. The Collegium Pontificum shall be responsible
      for
      > > the conduct and administration of all public religious ceremonies
      > > other than those rites assigned to the Augurs. To that purpose,
      the
      > > Collegium Pontificum may create sacerdotal offices, sodalitates,
      and
      > > collegia.
      > >
      > > 2. The Collegium Augurum shall consist of all public Augurs who
      > > are co-opted by the Collegium Augurum itself, under its own
      governing
      > > rules. The individual members of the Collegium Augurium shall be
      > > responsible for instructing and advising curule
      > > magistrates on performing auspicia on behalf of Nova Roma. In
      other
      > > religious ceremonies the Augures shall perform their traditional
      > > responsibilities. The Collegium Augurum may create sacerdotal
      offices
      > > and sodalitates that are specifically related to the conduct and
      > > administration of its responsibilities.
      > >
      > > C. Additional sacerdotal collegia may be instituted and their
      > > rules set by the Collegium Pontificum, with the approval of the
      > > Comitia Centuriata.
      > >
      > > NOTE: The purpose and intent of this amendment is to simplify the
      > > language of the Constitution, retore a more historical model of
      the
      > > Collegia by making them independent of one another, and gives
      each
      > > Collegia more flexibility in determining how the institutions of
      the
      > > religio Romana should develop. At the same time it places some
      > > measure of review by the Comitia Centuriata over the decisions of
      the
      > > Collegium Pontificum in regard to establishing new sacerdotal
      > > collegia.
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > > NOTE: Proposals III through IX concern the Magistrates. These
      > > proposals amend the Constitution by adding in language that allow
      the
      > > Comitia to set additional responsibilities and powers for the
      > > respective magistrates, or limit these, through passage of leges
      > > rather than resorting to amending the Constitution. They also
      allow
      > > the Comitia to determine and change the number of certain
      > > magistrates, as needed. This will give us a greater degree of
      > > flexibility in addressing issues as they arise in the future.
      These
      > > proposals will also lead to a more historical model of a
      > > constitution, since such issues were determined by Comitia and
      not by
      > > a Constitution per se. The biggest change comes with the
      Censors.
      > > The proposed Lex de censoribus will make this office more
      historical
      > > by having two Censores elected together to conduct a census once
      > > every two years. Historically censores were elected only once
      every
      > > five years and held office for only eighteen months. We propose
      to
      > > have a one year term and censors elected every other year.
      Combined
      > > with the other proposals, which can allow the Comitia to reduce
      the
      > > number of magistrates to what is sufficient and needed, the
      Consuls
      > > hope to address the continual problem of having too many offices,
      not
      > > enough candidates for those offices, and then having magistrates
      > > elected with no duties assigned to them. In regard to the
      Censors,
      > > much of their former duties have been taken over by our
      Rogatores,
      > > and the main function of the Censors now is to conduct the
      biennial
      > > census. From the census is determined the size of the Senate,
      and
      > > the Censors thus retain their powers to adlect new Senators
      and/or
      > > remove members of the Senate. By reducing their term to one
      year,
      > > which is more than sufficient to complete their duties, we will
      > > conceivably provide ourselves with additional qualified
      candidates in
      > > other offices.
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > >
      > > III Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus
      > >
      > > By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus is amended the
      Constitution,
      > > Article IV.A, paragraph 1, which is:
      > >
      > > IV.A.1: Censor. "Two censors shall be elected by the comitia
      > > centuriata to serve a term lasting two years, to be elected in
      > > alternate years so as to have a one-year overlap of terms. They
      shall
      > > have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > > a. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those
      tasks
      > > in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to
      engage
      > > (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
      > > b. To maintain the album civium (list of citizens), including the
      > > tribe and century to which they are assigned as described by law,
      and
      > > other appropriate information regarding them;
      > > c. To maintain the album gentium (list of gentes) and appropriate
      > > information regarding them;
      > > d. To maintain the album senatorum (list of Senators), including
      the
      > > power to add and remove names on that list according to
      > > qualifications set by law;
      > > e. To maintain the album equestrium (lists of members of the
      > > equestrian order), including the power to add and remove names on
      > > that list;
      > > f. To safeguard the public morality and honor through the
      collegial
      > > administering of notae;
      > > 1. A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient to deprive
      > > that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is
      > > removed;
      > > 2. A nota against a member of the Senate is sufficient to remove
      that
      > > individual from the Senate until such time as it is removed.
      > > g. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > > other tasks, as they shall see fit."
      > >
      > > Hereby shall IV.A.1 be amended to:
      > >
      > > IV.A.1: Censor: "In any year following the conduct of a census
      two
      > > censors shall be elected by the comitia centuriata to serve a
      > > collegial term lasting one year in the year following
      thereafter.
      > > That is, two censors shall be elected together once every two
      years.
      > > They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > > a. To conduct the census.
      > > b. To insure that the Album Civium is updated in accordance with
      the
      > > results of the census.
      > > c. To oversee the Album Senatorum (list of current Senators),
      > > including the power to add and remove names on that list
      according to
      > > qualifications set by law;
      > > d. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to carry out those
      tasks
      > > in which they are mandated by this Constitution and the law to
      > > engage. Their edicts shall be binding upon themselves as well as
      on
      > > others.
      > > e. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > > other tasks, as they shall see fit
      > > f. As conservators of public morality and civic honor, to
      administer
      > > notae.
      > >
      > > 1. A nota may admonish a citizen for improper conduct, without
      any
      > > explicit penalty.
      > > 2. A nota may reassign a citizen to a different tribe, including
      to
      > > urban tribes reserved for capiti censi or to the aerari for those
      > > without a tribe, thus depriving the aerarian citizen of a vote in
      any
      > > tribal assembly.
      > > 3. A nota may reassign a citizen to a century in any class,
      including
      > > to the last century of the Comitia Centuriata, which is reserved
      for
      > > capiti censi.
      > > 4. A nota against a member of the Senate may additionally impose
      > > ejectio e senatu (removal from the senate).
      > > 5. A nota may only be lifted by the Censors; either those Censors
      who
      > > imposed it or their successors.
      > >
      > > g. To conduct the Lustrum as their final official act before
      leaving
      > > office.
      > >
      > > h. All official censorial actions must be collegial. That is,
      both
      > > censors must agree on any official action. If one censor becomes
      > > unable to continue to serve in office, the censura (term of
      office of
      > > both censors) ends immediately and his or her colleague must
      resign
      > > the office of censor."
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Censoribus shall become effective as
      of
      > > the Kalends of January AUC 2762. The candidate who is elected to
      > > serve in the term beginning AUC 1 January 2762 to 31 December
      2763
      > > shall have his term instead designated as lasting from AUC 1
      January
      > > until 31 December 2762. There shall not be an alteration to the
      > > century points received for this curtailed term, but remain at
      the
      > > same amount as though the two-year term had been served.
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > >
      > > IV Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus
      > >
      > > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus is amended the first
      > > paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 2, which is:
      > >
      > > "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata
      to
      > > serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following
      honors,
      > > powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > Hereby shall the first paragraph of IV.A.2 be amended to:
      > >
      > > IV.A.2: Consuls: "Two consuls shall be elected annually by the
      > > Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. Their powers
      and
      > > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by
      the
      > > Comitia Centuriata. In addition the Consuls shall have the
      following
      > > honors, powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Consulibus shall become effective as
      of
      > > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > V Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus
      > >
      > > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus is amended the first
      > > paragraph in the Constitution, Article IV.A, section 3, which is:
      > >
      > > IV.A.3: Praetor. "Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia
      > > Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the
      > > following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > Hereby shall IV.A.3 be amended to:
      > >
      > > IV.A.3: Praetor. "A number of Praetors, determined by law, shall
      be
      > > elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one
      year.
      > > The number of praetors, their powers, and their areas of
      > > responsibility may be defined by law enacted by the Comitia
      > > Centuriata. In addition the praetores shall have the following
      > > honors, powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Praetoribus shall become effective as
      of
      > > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > VI Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus
      > >
      > > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibusis amended the
      > > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 4, which is:
      > >
      > > 4. Aediles Curules (Curule Aediles). "Two curule aediles shall be
      > > elected by the comitia populi tributa to serve a term lasting one
      > > year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and
      obligations:
      > > a. To hold Imperium;
      > > b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct
      of
      > > public games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order
      at
      > > public religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real
      public
      > > facilities that the State should acquire, and to administer the
      law
      > > (such edicts being binding upon themselves as well as others);
      > > c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
      > > plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
      > > d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > > other tasks, as they shall see fit.
      > > e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
      > > commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of
      the
      > > Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
      > > Censors."
      > >
      > > Hereby is IV.A.4 amended to IV.A.5 as follows:
      > >
      > > IV.A.5: Aedilis Curulis: "A number of Aediles Curules, determined
      by
      > > law, shall be elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa to serve a
      term
      > > lasting one year. The number of Aediles Curules, their powers,
      and
      > > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by
      the
      > > Comitia Populi Tributa. In addition the Aediles Curules shall
      have
      > > the following honors, powers, and obligations:
      > >
      > > a. To administer any funds assigned to him or her by the Senate
      and
      > > to see to the maintenance of any real property and/or public
      > > facilities owned by Nova Roma;
      > > b. To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to conduct the public
      > > games and other festivals and gatherings, and to ensure order at
      > > public religious events. Their edicts shall be binding upon
      > > themselves as equally as on others;
      > > c. To pronounce intercessio against another aedile (curule or
      > > plebeian) or magistrate of lesser authority;
      > > d. To appoint scribae (clerks) to assist with administrative and
      > > other tasks, as they shall see fit.
      > > e. To maintain the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in
      > > commerce within Nova Roma property. It is the responsibility of
      the
      > > Curule Aediles to report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the
      > > Censors."
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Curulibus shall become
      > > effective as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > VII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis
      > >
      > > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis is amended the
      > > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 5, which is:
      > >
      > > IV.A.5: Aediles plebis (Plebeian Aedile). "Two plebeian aediles
      shall
      > > be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term lasting
      one
      > > year. They must both be of the plebeian order and shall have the
      > > following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > Hereby shall IV.A.5 be amended to IV.A.6 and its first paragraph
      is
      > > amended as follows:
      > >
      > > IV.A.6: Aediles Plebis: "A number of Aediles Plebiss, determined
      by
      > > law, shall be elected by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a
      term
      > > lasting one year. The number of Aediles Plebis, their powers, and
      > > their areas of responsibility may be defined by law enacted by
      the
      > > Comitia Plebis Tributa. In addition the Aediles Plebis shall
      have
      > > the following honors, powers, and obligations:"
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Aedilibus Plebis shall become
      effective
      > > as of the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > VIII Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus
      > >
      > > 1. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus is amended the
      > > Constitution, Article IV.A, section 6, which is:
      > >
      > > IV.A.6: Quaestor. "A number of quaestors shall be elected by the
      > > comitia populi tributa equal to the number of consuls, praetors,
      and
      > > aediles to serve a term lasting one year. One quaestor shall be
      > > assigned to each of these magistrates by mutual agreement or, if
      such
      > > cannot be made, by decision of the newly-elected consuls. They
      shall
      > > have the power and obligation to administer those funds that
      shall be
      > > allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
      > > supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
      > > quaestors assigned directly to the consuls shall supervise the
      whole
      > > of the aerarium (treasury), but no funds may be spent without the
      > > prior approval of the Senate."
      > >
      > > Hereby shall IV.A.6 be amended to:
      > >
      > > IV.A.7: Quaestor. "A number of Quaestors, determined by law
      enacted
      > > by the Comitia Populi Tributa, shall be elected by the Comitia
      Populi
      > > Tributa to serve a term lasting one year. Quaestors shall be
      assigned
      > > duties by the Consuls acting collegially. Quaestors shall have
      the
      > > power and obligation to administer those funds that shall be
      > > allocated to them by the Senate in its annual budget under the
      > > supervision of that magistrate to whom they are assigned. Those
      > > Quaestors assigned directly to the Consuls shall supervise the
      whole
      > > of the aerarium (treasury), as well as oversee other Quaestors,
      and
      > > ensure that no Nova Roma funds may be spent without the prior
      > > approval of the Senate and authorization by a curule magistrate.
      > > (That is, authorization from one of the Consuls, Praetors, or
      Aediles
      > > Curules)."
      > >
      > > 2. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Quaestoribus shall become effective
      as of
      > > the Kalends of January AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________________
      > >
      > >
      > > Velitis iubeatisne haec sic fieri?
      > >
      > > Is it your will and pleasure that this be done so? That the
      > > Constitution of Nova Roma be amended by passage of the following
      lex:
      > >
      > > IX Proposed Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis
      > >
      > > 1. In the order of authority among the ordinarii magistrates, the
      > > Tribuni Plebis shall be placed in fourth position, behind the
      > > Praetors.
      > >
      > > 2. Therefore, the Constitution, Article IV, Section A, Paragraph
      7,
      > > is reassigned as Article IV, Part A, Section 4 with the other
      > > sections in Part A following in numerical order.
      > >
      > > 3. By this Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis is amended the
      > > Constitution, Article IV, Part A, Section 7, where it begins:
      > >
      > > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribune of the Plebs). Five tribunes of the
      plebs
      > > shall be elected by the comitia plebis tributa to serve a term
      > > lasting one year."
      > >
      > > Hereby shall IV.A.7 be amended to IV.A.4 as follows:
      > >
      > > "Tribuni Plebis (Tribunes of the Plebeians): Three (3) tribunes
      of
      > > the plebs shall be elected by the Comitia Pplebis Ttributa to
      serve a
      > > term lasting one year."
      > >
      > > 4. The Lex Moravia Iulia de Tribunis Plebis shall become
      effective as
      > > of the Kalends of January AUC 2762 and thus shall apply to those
      > > individuals who are elected as Tribuni Plebis that same year to
      begin
      > > their terms in December AUC 2762.
      > >
      > >
      > > Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58977 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
      ---Salve Equitius Marinus, Salvete Omnes:


      [..]
      >
      > You wrote regarding nota issues with no Censors in office:
      >
      > >
      >
      > It waits until the next censuria, just like in antiquity. Even in
      our
      > Republic, notae have often been issued long after the events for
      which
      > they were inspired. Until then matters can be addressed by the
      > praetors and consuls under law.

      Pompeia: Under law. Which laws are you referring to? Praetors and
      Consuls can talk about this infinitely but they cannot issue notae,
      nor rescind them by any law that I'm aware of. What I'm hearing, is
      that we can worry about these details some other time....No. We
      should worry about them *now*, * before* this becomes part of our
      highest ruling document, the constitution.


      >
      > The real point here is to get away from having censors in office
      all
      > the time, and to get back to a system where the censors are
      elected
      > collegially.

      Pompeia: Fine. But not if there are potential problems for citizens
      and the republic in general with the proposed language altering their
      nota powers.
      >
      > Vale,
      >
      > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

      Pompeia
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58978 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      Salve Titus Aquila,
      Thank you for your efforts to enlighten the Plebian Order, about this threat to their representation and the reduction in their power to influence their best interests in the Respublica.This is nothing new for the politics within Nova Roma whereby certain individuals are not satified to represent their class only but wish to consolidate power into their own hands ,this may be due to a power play,a case of group vanity,or the desire to totaly control this Republic for their personal agenda
      or for a sence of elitism, that will act as a poison that will creep into the Respublica if this bill to restict the Plebian order in the face of an opposition who's only aim to to create a political dictatorship without actually installing a dictator.Who know's that may be next if they see they can not silence the Plebians without taking away thir rights, using that option.We are faced here with a piece of legeslation that in my opinion will gut the Plebian order of its most cherished defence against the abuse and the the tyrany of the upper classes and their status of those of less nobility and rights within the Respublica.The excuse for the case of having less is better because of a lack of action by certain Plebsians to me holds no water and is a direct insult to all Plebians.Not everyone seeking the office of Tribune will neglect their post.Must we swallow this insult to our Plebian Order like a child with a benevolent paernt.I as a Plebian
      unconditionaly say no to any reduction below the five positions we already hold,in the face of all odds and, all repricussions to me for exercising my right to free speech, such as it exists in the political arena at this point in time.My call to all within the Plebian order is to return a resounding NO.

      Save et salvete,

      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus


      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

      > From: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...>
      > Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 2:06 AM
      > Salvete Pompeia Senator, Salvete Omnes,
      >
      >
      >
      > thank you very much for your response Senator Pompeia. 
      >
      > Be assured your comment concerning the Praetores have been
      > well noted.
      >    
      > I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance to
      > alter the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received
      > criticism or to withdraw it completely and have it discussed
      > and elaborated in detail.
      >
      > I am ready to act. I am prepared for any action necessary.
      >
      > Optime vale
      > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > Von: pompeia_minucia_tiberia
      > <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
      > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 22:53:30 Uhr
      > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of
      > Praetors)
      >
      >
      > ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:
      >
      > I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes
      > regarding
      > legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian
      > magistrates. The
      > Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      > constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact
      > that you
      > should have been consulted.
      >
      > I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls
      > because I've been
      > away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any
      > century points
      > (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on
      > to a similar
      > problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.
      >
      > I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a
      > number of
      > Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I
      > would hate
      > to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of a
      > colleague because we
      > are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a
      > full
      > historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see
      > somebody
      > justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's
      > historical'.
      >
      > And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      >
      > sublection as Senators...it' s just a matter of
      > time...depends on when
      > the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom
      > the Censors
      > might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past
      > service in
      > NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The
      > Censors can
      > wish and get in line behind the Praetores.
      >
      > This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I
      > can see where it
      > could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      >
      > uncomfortable as being part of the constitution.
      >
      > I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.
      >
      > Valete
      > Pompeia
      >
      > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      > <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio
      > Piscino
      > Horatiano S.P.D.
      > >
      > > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a
      > possible
      > solution.
      > >
      > > But how can we be certain that everything is done as
      > needed ? With
      > no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want
      > to change
      > the number of magistrates, do we want a constant
      > fluctuation ? I
      > still say all of this is too vague and needs to be
      > discussed in
      > detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      > an consuls term.
      > >
      > > I am still willing to veto this for the following
      > reasons,
      > >  
      > > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > > 2. because you have not consulted all of the
      > magistrates to
      > eleborate the draft before publishing it
      > >  
      > > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      >
      > your substitution and changes , especially for the
      > Tribuni Plebi
      > section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      > >  
      > > In general I thought we had a change in culture ,
      > involving all
      > Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an
      > impact ?
      > >  
      > > Optime vale
      > > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > >
      > > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@. ..>
      > > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      > >
      > >
      > > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae
      > Plebis s. p.
      > d.
      > >
      > > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while
      > consistent with
      > the
      > > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall
      > take your
      > > suggestion and make the substitution.
      > >
      > > Gratias tibi ago
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia
      > Plauta" <cases@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio
      > Piscino
      > Horatiano
      > > S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less
      > tribunes will be
      > a
      > > > positive or negative thing.
      > > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you
      > want to set the
      > > number
      > > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you
      > are proposing a
      > > > constitution change which will allow their number
      > to be set by a
      > > > separate law.
      > > >
      > > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if
      > passed, it will
      > > allow
      > > > the number of magistrates to be set according to
      > the needs, the
      > > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica,
      > without having to
      > change
      > > > the constitution every time.
      > > >
      > > > So why can't the same solution be applied to
      > Tribunes?
      > > >
      > > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph
      > of your proposed
      > > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of
      > the plebs shall be
      > > elected
      > > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
      > lasting one year.")
      > > with
      > > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications
      > you proposed for
      > > > other magistrates:
      > > >
      > > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law,
      > shall be elected by the
      > > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting
      > one year."
      > > >
      > > > This way there would be plenty of time next year
      > to discuss what
      > > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a
      > relevant law.
      > > >
      > > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing
      > your proposals from
      > > > passing, because I think your proposed changes
      > would benefit
      > > everybody
      > > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Optime vale.
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta
      > > >
      > > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > > >
      > > > > While I understand some of the reactions
      > I've read today, I
      > think
      > > that
      > > > > the objections raised miss the point of the
      > proposals, and the
      > > > > objections do so without the benefit of
      > knowing Nova Roma's
      > > history
      > > > > very well.
      > > > >
      > > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice.
      > The first time was
      > > when
      > > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis.
      > The number of
      > > Tribuni
      > > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by
      > Patricians,
      > > specifically to
      > > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing
      > this ahistorical
      > > system we
      > > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni
      > must agree to a
      > > > > intercessio.
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and
      > responsibilities of
      > > the
      > > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia
      > Centuriata. This
      > > again is
      > > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the
      > Nova Roma voting
      > > system,
      > > > > you must realize how very little say the
      > Plebeians really have
      > > over
      > > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia
      > Plebis Tributa has
      > > actually
      > > > > been reduced in its authority over the
      > years.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another matter is how the Constitution
      > placed the Tribuni
      > Plebis
      > > below
      > > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis.
      > Then it became that
      > > in
      > > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have
      > to first serve as
      > > Tribunus.
      > > > > How historical is that?
      > > > >
      > > > > There are many issues to consider when it
      > comes to a proper
      > role
      > > for
      > > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be
      > to get the number of
      > > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the
      > needs of Nova Roma.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the
      > past, with five
      > > Tribuni,
      > > > > we would end up with only one or two
      > remaining active. Last
      > time
      > > I was
      > > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard
      > from for most of
      > the
      > > year.
      > > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa,
      > Suetonius and I did
      > > well
      > > > > without our other two colleagues. This year
      > again, we have
      > > essentially
      > > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This
      > idea that we need a
      > > buffer by
      > > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking.
      > If a Consul is not
      > > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor
      > Galerius is familiar
      > with
      > > in
      > > > > having had Faustus as his consular
      > colleague, do we then
      > increase
      > > the
      > > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next
      > time? No, of course
      > > not.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules,
      > Tribuna Livia and
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis
      > Albucius who is also a
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova
      > Roma has today in
      > > attaining
      > > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even
      > now, in this year's
      > > > > election, we do not have enough candidates
      > to fill all offices.
      > > And
      > > > > only two races are contested. Where we
      > suffer most are in the
      > > lower
      > > > > magistracies that we especially need filled
      > with experienced
      > > > > individuals, because it is these lower
      > offices that keep things
      > > running
      > > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those
      > attending the
      > > Conventus
      > > > > that a general reduction in the number of
      > all offices would
      > make
      > > our
      > > > > administration more efficient and our
      > elections more
      > competitive.
      > > The
      > > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors
      > consularis where a
      > > number of
      > > > > current and former magistrates, including
      > Tribuni Plebis, were
      > > given an
      > > > > opportunity to review the legislation.
      > Although placed into
      > > separate
      > > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on
      > magistrates are intended
      > > to
      > > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would say, and I think others would agree,
      > that we need to
      > make
      > > the
      > > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive,
      > in order to get
      > > better
      > > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is
      > now, when it is a
      > > problem
      > > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all
      > enter office
      > > uncontested.
      > > > > We don't know what we will get in office
      > if we allow this to
      > > continue.
      > > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent
      > or irresponsible
      > > Tribunes. What
      > > > > we need are experienced and well qualified
      > individuals to fill
      > an
      > > > > important position. Competitive elections
      > improves the process
      > by
      > > which
      > > > > we meet that need. This will carry further,
      > into other offices
      > as
      > > well,
      > > > > since by making the race for Tribune more
      > competitive, people
      > > will
      > > > > instead look to begin their careers in the
      > lower offices where
      > > more
      > > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the
      > races shall become
      > > more
      > > > > competitive.
      > > > >
      > > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for
      > the benefit of our
      > > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its
      > Citizens, I have
      > offered
      > > the
      > > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge
      > everyone to approve those
      > > > > measures.
      > > > >
      > > > > Valete optime
      > > > >
      > > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > > >
      > > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58979 From: rhatsumi Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Introduction
      Hi there, my name is Ralph, i'm 28 years old and i live in Arnhem, The
      Netherlands with my girlfriend and my two 8 months old daughters.

      The first time i took a peek at the Nova Roma website must have been
      years ago and finally i feel ready to apply for membership.
      I still have trouble with choosing a name but i'm getting there.

      I have always adored the ancient romans.
      A long time ago when i was just a kid i was watching docu's on
      discovery and the history channel about ancient roman religion,
      politics, daily life and the roman way of war while all the other kids
      were watching tom & jerry.

      In my life i went to many archeological sites and my goal in life is to
      become a member of a roman recon army (living history).
      I'm also a follower of Religio Romana so you can say that ancient rome
      has become my lifestyle.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58980 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
      Salve Tiberia Consularis,

      pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...> writes:

      > Pompeia: Under law. Which laws are you referring to?

      What I meant is that the praetors and consuls can address wrongdoing
      using the existing laws. Notae are censorial admonitions, and they
      exist outside the scope of punitive law.

      > Praetors and
      > Consuls can talk about this infinitely but they cannot issue notae,

      Of course not. Nor should they.

      > nor rescind them by any law that I'm aware of.

      That is correct. A censorial nota can only be rescinded by the
      collegial agreement of two sitting censors.

      > What I'm hearing, is
      > that we can worry about these details some other time.

      I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that Nova Roma's
      censors should act in the same manner as the censors of antiquity.
      That's what this amendment is proposing.

      Vale,

      CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58981 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Introduction
      Salve Ralph,

      Welcome to Nova Roma. Please let me know if there's anything I can do
      to help you as you get settled in.

      Vale,

      CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

      rhatsumi <rhatsumi@...> writes:

      > Hi there, my name is Ralph, i'm 28 years old and i live in Arnhem, The
      > Netherlands with my girlfriend and my two 8 months old daughters.
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58982 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
      Maiori C. Petronius s.p.d.,

      >>>When I joined I met C. Curius Saturninus and A. Apollonius Cordus,
      now good friends explained the vision of NR: to think like a
      republican Roman, act like a Roman in 21st century everyday life. A
      Roman 2,000 years later. What a challenge! That's what makes Nova
      Roma so unique.<<<

      Yes, and to express your thougths in Latin, according to the
      republican Roman maneer, you mostly must use the republican Latin.

      >>>We're the opposite of re-enactors, we're not like the many Roman
      cultural orgs that talk only about past history. Our aim is to be
      Roman. So nothing in our everyday life is off-topic.<<<

      A Roman citizen is something to be.

      >>>As for Latin, I enjoy this discussion enormously. When I took
      Sermo
      I, Avitus used 'currus' for auto, now it seems 'raeda' what word
      for 'computer'?<<<

      It is as I said, for modern subjects you have the choice to use
      classical Latin words with meanings updated or to use Latin
      neologisms.

      The main problem with the neologisms comes from the neologists which
      propose their neologisms. These modern or new words, of course, have
      not the traditional neither common using, so, for example, if the
      neologist is English speaker, the modern Latin word to
      translate "computer" may be "computatorium" or "computatrum"Â… a word
      that it sounds with the modern English word "computer". But if the
      neologists is French, the computer in his native language is
      said "ordinateur", and naturally the French neologist will propose a
      modern Latin word as "ordinatorium" or "ordinatrum"Â… and so on. I
      wonder what Latin neologisms could propose a Latin neologist native
      Chinese speaker.

      What about currus or raeda? To evoke the idea of a car you also have
      carpentum, cisium, and othersÂ… According to my preferences, currus
      may be a racing car, a formula 1, while a raeda is the usual auto.
      But if you prefer neologisms, you also can use the neo-Latin word
      autocinetum, from Greek etymology. It is the word used in the Latin
      books of Harrius Potter.

      >>>So the Latin speakers I know who are Nova Romans and agree with
      the
      above: Lentulus, Astur, Cordus, Saturninus don't limit their Latin
      to Classical.<<<

      Classical Latin is not a limit. As all languages, we have the spoken
      one and the written one. We could say that, with the time, the French
      (Italian, SpanishÂ…) language is a spoken Latin, more and more
      different than the written Latin language. ;o)

      Vale.

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58983 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Censores et Notae
      Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus salutem plurimam dicit

          Here's where the "Nova" part of "Nova Roma" comes in. We need to act a bit differently from Roma antiqua. We are different from Roma antiqua in the following ways:

      1) We are smaller. This lets the censores more easily notice a citizen who needs a nota. In Roma antiqua, I'll guarantee you that there were thousands of people who deserved notae and didn't get one. So, that means that the people who actually received a nota did something very bad (and/or very public) to deserve it, with the less bad actions and less important people being ignored.
      2) We move at a faster pace due to our communications technology. Two years seems almost an infinity. Plus, we want instant gratification, so there is attitude involved here, too.
      3) Our citizenship is very fluid. We gain and lose people every single day, it seems. Again, due to our small size, that means a fairly large percentage of our population is in flux at any given moment. Frankly, I don't see why a census couldn't be conducted every single year, and I think it would be a good idea to do so for this specific reason. That would require censores to be in office every year, like we have now.
       
          My suggestion: let's keep censores every year, and let's define their duties as requiring them to conduct a census every year, with a lustrum. We need that census data to better encourage, focus, and manage the growth of Nova Roma. If, after a few years, we see that this is too often to hold a census, we can reduce it. But I don't think I personally see a need to do so right now.

      Optime valete!

      --
      Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
      Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
      Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
      http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58984 From: rhatsumi Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Introduction
      Thank you for the warm welcome
      I have chosen a name: Tiberius Marius Pictor and i've requested
      membership.
      Thank you for the offer but i will first try to figure it out myself
      with the website.

      Vale


      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Salve Ralph,
      >
      > Welcome to Nova Roma. Please let me know if there's anything I can
      do
      > to help you as you get settled in.
      >
      > Vale,
      >
      > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
      >
      > rhatsumi <rhatsumi@...> writes:
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58985 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Censores et Notae
      C. Petronius Cn. Caelio s.p.d.,

      >>> My suggestion: let's keep censores every year, and let's define
      their duties as requiring them to conduct a census every year, with a
      lustrum. We need that census data to better encourage, focus, and
      manage the growth of Nova Roma. If, after a few years, we see that this
      is too often to hold a census, we can reduce it. But I don't think I
      personally see a need to do so right now.<<<

      That is exactly I said in an older post; if we have yearly censors, we
      must have yearly census. It was in my response at Cn. Lentulus when he
      decided to refuse his rank of senator. Cn. Marinus learnt me that a
      census comes every two years in nova Roma. But without lustrum.

      Vale.

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58986 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Video of Ritual in Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, 9 November 2008
      Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus salutem plurimam dicit


      I made a short video of a portion of a ritual which we performed
      yesterday and uploaded it to YouTube. You can find it at:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nlSHLe5L0E

      Comments are welcome!

      Optime valete!
      --
      Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
      Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
      Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
      http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58987 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUVTA-VOTACIÓN PARA PEBISCITOS, CONTIO PARA ELEGI

      Salvete omnes,

      La Tribuna de la Plebe L. Livia Plauta, ha dado a conocer el anuncio electoral que inserto a continuación.

      Optime vale,
      M•IVL•SEVERVS
      PRÆTOR•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

      SENATOR
      PRÆTOR•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
       

      L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

      La cista está abierta para votar en los dos plebiscitos acerca de revocar la lex Arminia y la lex Moravia.

      Para votar, el manera más sencilla es entrar con su nombre de usuario y su contraseña en el Album Civium y hacer clic en el enlace “go vote”.

      Les pido a los ciudadanos y ciudadanas que no voten el jueves 13 y el viernes 14 de noviembre, porque esos días no son dies comitiales.

      A partir de hoy, se inicia el contio para la elección de Tribunos de la Plebe y Aedilis Plebis, cuya votación comenzará el 16 de noviembre.

      Salvete omnes,

      L. Livia Plauta

      Tribuna Plebis


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58988 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.

      Salvete!

      First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm welcome they
      have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to do what
      good I can in the Res publica.

      Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you feel as
      though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a plebeian.
      I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name Sergius
      Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia, I made sure
      to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only plebeian. In
      fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the Album Civium
      again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
      <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
      >
      > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      >

      > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an ancient Roman gens as
      > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      >
      > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the gens Sergia. He
      > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman Sergii, from
      > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      >
      > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is famous Sergius name
      > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not registered by our
      > censors into the Patrician order!
      >
      > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at this bad
      > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      >
      > Vale.
      >
      > C. Petronius Dexter
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58989 From: Lucius Iulius Regulus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      Salve,
       
      I also disagreee with the reduction of the number of Tribunes. The Plebeians need as much representation that they can come by and cutting back on the number of Tribunes is not in tune with that spirit. I do not understand how reducing the number of Tribunes will help the Plebeians and I think as our society grows so should the number of Tribunes. If any change were to be made it should be the increase of Tribunes, although at this time I think the current number is sufficient. As mentioned before, if situations occur in their personal lives where they are unable to be active at that same time the number of Tribunes are already cut back, leaving behind limited representation. 
       
      It is discouraging to see that a cut back would ever be mentioned and will state that I also say no to any reduction proposed for the office of the Tribunes.
       
       
      Lucius Iulius Regulus  
       

       


      From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
      To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:00:53 AM
      Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)

      Salve Titus Aquila,
      Thank you for your efforts to enlighten the Plebian Order, about this threat to their representation and the reduction in their power to influence their best interests in the Respublica.This is nothing new for the politics within Nova Roma whereby certain individuals are not satified to represent their class only but wish to consolidate power into their own hands ,this may be due to a power play,a case of group vanity,or the desire to totaly control this Republic for their personal agenda
      or for a sence of elitism, that will act as a poison that will creep into the Respublica if this bill to restict the Plebian order in the face of an opposition who's only aim to to create a political dictatorship without actually installing a dictator.Who know's that may be next if they see they can not silence the Plebians without taking away thir rights, using that option.We are faced here with a piece of legeslation that in my opinion will gut the Plebian order of its most cherished defence against the abuse and the the tyrany of the upper classes and their status of those of less nobility and rights within the Respublica.The excuse for the case of having less is better because of a lack of action by certain Plebsians to me holds no water and is a direct insult to all Plebians.Not everyone seeking the office of Tribune will neglect their post.Must we swallow this insult to our Plebian Order like a child with a benevolent paernt.I as a Plebian
      unconditionaly say no to any reduction below the five positions we already hold,in the face of all odds and, all repricussions to me for exercising my right to free speech, such as it exists in the political arena at this point in time.My call to all within the Plebian order is to return a resounding NO.

      Save et salvete,

      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@ yahoo.de> wrote:

      > From: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@ yahoo.de>
      > Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 2:06 AM
      > Salvete Pompeia Senator, Salvete Omnes,
      >
      >
      >
      > thank you very much for your response Senator Pompeia. 
      >
      > Be assured your comment concerning the Praetores have been
      > well noted.
      >    
      > I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance
      to
      > alter the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received
      > criticism or to withdraw it completely and have it discussed
      > and elaborated in detail.
      >
      > I am ready to act. I am prepared for any action necessary.
      >
      > Optime vale
      > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > Von: pompeia_minucia_ tiberia
      > <pompeia_minucia_ tiberia@yahoo. com>
      > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 22:53:30 Uhr
      > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of
      > Praetors)
      >
      >
      > ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:
      >
      > I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes
      > regarding
      > legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian
      > magistrates. The
      > Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      > constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact
      > that you
      > should have been consulted.
      >
      > I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls
      > because I've been
      > away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any
      > century points
      > (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on
      > to a similar
      > problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.
      >
      > I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a
      > number of
      > Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I
      > would hate
      > to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of
      a
      > colleague because we
      > are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a
      > full
      > historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see
      > somebody
      > justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's
      > historical'.
      >
      > And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      >
      > sublection as Senators...it' s just a matter of
      > time...depends on when
      > the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom
      > the Censors
      > might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past
      > service in
      > NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The
      > Censors can
      > wish and get in line behind the Praetores.
      >
      > This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I
      > can see where it
      > could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      >
      > uncomfortable as being part of
      the constitution.
      >
      > I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.
      >
      > Valete
      > Pompeia
      >
      > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      > <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio
      > Piscino
      > Horatiano S.P.D.
      > >
      > > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a
      > possible
      > solution.
      > >
      > > But how can we be certain that everything is done as
      > needed ? With
      > no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want
      > to change
      > the number of magistrates, do we want a constant
      > fluctuation ? I
      > still say all of this is too vague and needs to be
      > discussed in
      > detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      > an consuls term.
      > >
      > > I am still willing
      to veto this for the following
      > reasons,
      > >  
      > > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > > 2. because you have not consulted all of the
      > magistrates to
      > eleborate the draft before publishing it
      > >  
      > > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      >
      > your substitution and changes , especially for the
      > Tribuni Plebi
      > section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      > >  
      > > In general I thought we had a change in culture ,
      > involving all
      > Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an
      > impact ?
      > >  
      > > Optime vale
      > > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > >
      > > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@. ..>
      > > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      > >
      > >
      > > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae
      > Plebis s. p.
      > d.
      > >
      > > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while
      > consistent with
      > the
      > > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall
      > take your
      > > suggestion and make the substitution.
      > >
      > > Gratias tibi ago
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia
      > Plauta" <cases@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio
      > Piscino
      > Horatiano
      > >
      S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less
      > tribunes will be
      > a
      > > > positive or negative thing.
      > > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you
      > want to set the
      > > number
      > > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you
      > are proposing a
      > > > constitution change which will allow their number
      > to be set by a
      > > > separate law.
      > > >
      > > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if
      > passed, it will
      > > allow
      > > > the number of magistrates to be set according to
      > the needs, the
      > > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica,
      > without having to
      > change
      > > > the constitution every time.
      > > >
      > > > So why can't the same solution be applied to
      >
      Tribunes?
      > > >
      > > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph
      > of your proposed
      > > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of
      > the plebs shall be
      > > elected
      > > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
      > lasting one year.")
      > > with
      > > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications
      > you proposed for
      > > > other magistrates:
      > > >
      > > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law,
      > shall be elected by the
      > > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting
      > one year."
      > > >
      > > > This way there would be plenty of time next year
      > to discuss what
      > > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a
      > relevant law.
      > > >
      > > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing
      > your
      proposals from
      > > > passing, because I think your proposed changes
      > would benefit
      > > everybody
      > > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Optime vale.
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta
      > > >
      > > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > > >
      > > > > While I understand some of the reactions
      > I've read today, I
      > think
      > > that
      > > > > the objections raised miss the point of the
      > proposals, and the
      > > > > objections do so without the benefit of
      > knowing Nova Roma's
      > > history
      > > > > very well.
      > > > >
      > > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice.
      > The first time was
      > > when
      > > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni
      Plebis.
      > The number of
      > > Tribuni
      > > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by
      > Patricians,
      > > specifically to
      > > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing
      > this ahistorical
      > > system we
      > > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni
      > must agree to a
      > > > > intercessio.
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and
      > responsibilities of
      > > the
      > > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia
      > Centuriata. This
      > > again is
      > > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the
      > Nova Roma voting
      > > system,
      > > > > you must realize how very little say the
      > Plebeians really have
      > > over
      > > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the
      Comitia
      > Plebis Tributa has
      > > actually
      > > > > been reduced in its authority over the
      > years.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another matter is how the Constitution
      > placed the Tribuni
      > Plebis
      > > below
      > > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis.
      > Then it became that
      > > in
      > > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have
      > to first serve as
      > > Tribunus.
      > > > > How historical is that?
      > > > >
      > > > > There are many issues to consider when it
      > comes to a proper
      > role
      > > for
      > > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be
      > to get the number of
      > > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the
      > needs of Nova Roma.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the
      > past, with five
      > > Tribuni,
      > > > > we would end up with only one or two
      > remaining active. Last
      > time
      > > I was
      > > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard
      > from for most of
      > the
      > > year.
      > > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa,
      > Suetonius and I did
      > > well
      > > > > without our other two colleagues. This year
      > again, we have
      > > essentially
      > > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This
      > idea that we need a
      > > buffer by
      > > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking.
      > If a Consul is not
      > > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor
      > Galerius is familiar
      > with
      > > in
      > > > > having had Faustus as his
      consular
      > colleague, do we then
      > increase
      > > the
      > > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next
      > time? No, of course
      > > not.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules,
      > Tribuna Livia and
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis
      > Albucius who is also a
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova
      > Roma has today in
      > > attaining
      > > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even
      > now, in this year's
      > > > > election, we do not have enough candidates
      > to fill all offices.
      > > And
      > > > > only two races are contested. Where we
      > suffer most are in the
      > > lower
      > > > > magistracies that we especially need
      filled
      > with experienced
      > > > > individuals, because it is these lower
      > offices that keep things
      > > running
      > > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those
      > attending the
      > > Conventus
      > > > > that a general reduction in the number of
      > all offices would
      > make
      > > our
      > > > > administration more efficient and our
      > elections more
      > competitive.
      > > The
      > > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors
      > consularis where a
      > > number of
      > > > > current and former magistrates, including
      > Tribuni Plebis, were
      > > given an
      > > > > opportunity to review the legislation.
      > Although placed into
      > > separate
      > > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on
      > magistrates are intended
      > > to
      > > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would say, and I think others would agree,
      > that we need to
      > make
      > > the
      > > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive,
      > in order to get
      > > better
      > > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is
      > now, when it is a
      > > problem
      > > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all
      > enter office
      > > uncontested.
      > > > > We don't know what we will get in office
      > if we allow this to
      > > continue.
      > > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent
      > or irresponsible
      > > Tribunes. What
      > > > > we need are experienced and well qualified
      > individuals to fill
      > an
      > > > > important position. Competitive elections
      >
      improves the process
      > by
      > > which
      > > > > we meet that need. This will carry further,
      > into other offices
      > as
      > > well,
      > > > > since by making the race for Tribune more
      > competitive, people
      > > will
      > > > > instead look to begin their careers in the
      > lower offices where
      > > more
      > > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the
      > races shall become
      > > more
      > > > > competitive.
      > > > >
      > > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for
      > the benefit of our
      > > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its
      > Citizens, I have
      > offered
      > > the
      > > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge
      > everyone to approve those
      > > > > measures.
      > > > >
      > > > > Valete optime
      > > > >
      > > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > > >
      > > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >


      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58990 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: When no censors are in office
      ---Pompeia Minucia Equitio Marino sal:

      In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > [...]
      >
      > What I meant is that the praetors and consuls can address
      wrongdoing
      > using the existing laws.

      Pompeia: And I ask you again........which existing laws?


      Notae are censorial admonitions, and they
      > exist outside the scope of punitive law.

      Pompeia: Which is my point *exactly*. Punitive law cannot be used
      to undo a nota, nor pursue one.




      >
      > > Praetors and
      > > Consuls can talk about this infinitely but they cannot issue
      notae,
      >
      > Of course not. Nor should they.
      >
      > > nor rescind them by any law that I'm aware of.
      >
      > That is correct. A censorial nota can only be rescinded by the
      > collegial agreement of two sitting censors.


      Pompeia: Meaning, for NR that,.... under this new proposal we have
      two potential problems for the Republic and her citizens:

      1)When a nota is badly needed there will be no Censors to issue it in
      their absent years.

      2) And/or, it could be upwards of two years that an individual
      remains notarized, and this, in the worst case scenerio, means not
      being able to run for office or vote, with next-to-no reliable
      recourse, for a rather lengthy period of time.

      And, no, we can't appeal a 'nota' through our trial system. We could
      conceivably appeal it through comitia as per the constitution, but
      that's still a long wait when the Censors aren't around to receive an
      edict instructing them to act.

      >
      > > What I'm hearing, is
      > > that we can worry about these details some other time.
      >
      > I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that Nova Roma's
      > censors should act in the same manner as the censors of
      antiquity.
      > That's what this amendment is proposing.

      Pompeia: ...with the added potential consequences that arise from
      the Censors not being in office at a time when they are needed. If
      you are going to stiffen up the nota language, the Censors should be
      around all the time.

      I see this proposal as having historical elements, but I also see
      some of this proposal as contributing great *growth*. In what areas?
      The 51 Century, the Urban Tribes, and the Socci.

      If a proposal begs for the least degree of unfair treatment to
      citizens, or the wellbeing of the republic at large, it should not be
      made law, all for the sake of historical attractiveness.



      >
      > Vale,
      >
      > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

      Pompeia
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58991 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:


      In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
      >
      > Salvete Pompeia Senator, Salvete Omnes,
      >
      >
      >
      > thank you very much for your response Senator Pompeia. 

      Pompeia: And I, in turn thank you very much for your response,
      Tribune.
      >
      > Be assured your comment concerning the Praetores have been well
      noted.
      >    
      > I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance to alter
      the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received criticism or to
      withdraw it completely and have it discussed and elaborated in detail.
      >
      > I am ready to act. I am prepared for any action necessary.
      >
      > Optime vale
      > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma

      Valete
      Pompeia
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > Von: pompeia_minucia_tiberia <pompeia_minucia_tiberia@...>
      > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 22:53:30 Uhr
      > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      >
      >
      > ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:
      >
      > I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes regarding
      > legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian magistrates. The
      > Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      > constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact that you
      > should have been consulted.
      >
      > I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls because I've been
      > away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any century
      points
      > (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on to a
      similar
      > problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.
      >
      > I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a number of
      > Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I would hate
      > to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of a colleague because we
      > are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a full
      > historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see somebody
      > justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's historical'.
      >
      > And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      > sublection as Senators...it' s just a matter of time...depends on
      when
      > the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom the Censors
      > might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past service
      in
      > NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The Censors
      can
      > wish and get in line behind the Praetores.
      >
      > This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I can see where
      it
      > could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      > uncomfortable as being part of the constitution.
      >
      > I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.
      >
      > Valete
      > Pompeia
      >
      > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      > <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio Piscino
      > Horatiano S.P.D.
      > >
      > > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a possible
      > solution.
      > >
      > > But how can we be certain that everything is done as needed ?
      With
      > no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want to change
      > the number of magistrates, do we want a constant fluctuation ? I
      > still say all of this is too vague and needs to be discussed in
      > detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      > an consuls term.
      > >
      > > I am still willing to veto this for the following reasons,
      > >  
      > > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > > 2. because you have not consulted all of the magistrates to
      > eleborate the draft before publishing it
      > >  
      > > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      > your substitution and changes , especially for the Tribuni
      Plebi
      > section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      > >  
      > > In general I thought we had a change in culture , involving all
      > Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an impact ?
      > >  
      > > Optime vale
      > > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > >
      > > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@ ..>
      > > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      > >
      > >
      > > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae Plebis s.
      p.
      > d.
      > >
      > > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while consistent with
      > the
      > > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall take your
      > > suggestion and make the substitution.
      > >
      > > Gratias tibi ago
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio Piscino
      > Horatiano
      > > S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less tribunes will
      be
      > a
      > > > positive or negative thing.
      > > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you want to set the
      > > number
      > > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you are proposing
      a
      > > > constitution change which will allow their number to be set by a
      > > > separate law.
      > > >
      > > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if passed, it will
      > > allow
      > > > the number of magistrates to be set according to the needs, the
      > > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica, without having to
      > change
      > > > the constitution every time.
      > > >
      > > > So why can't the same solution be applied to Tribunes?
      > > >
      > > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph of your
      proposed
      > > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of the plebs shall be
      > > elected
      > > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one
      year.")
      > > with
      > > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications you proposed
      for
      > > > other magistrates:
      > > >
      > > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law, shall be elected by
      the
      > > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting one year."
      > > >
      > > > This way there would be plenty of time next year to discuss what
      > > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a relevant law.
      > > >
      > > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing your proposals
      from
      > > > passing, because I think your proposed changes would benefit
      > > everybody
      > > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Optime vale.
      > > >
      > > > L. Livia Plauta
      > > >
      > > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > > >
      > > > > While I understand some of the reactions I've read today, I
      > think
      > > that
      > > > > the objections raised miss the point of the proposals, and
      the
      > > > > objections do so without the benefit of knowing Nova Roma's
      > > history
      > > > > very well.
      > > > >
      > > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice. The first time
      was
      > > when
      > > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis. The number of
      > > Tribuni
      > > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by Patricians,
      > > specifically to
      > > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing this ahistorical
      > > system we
      > > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni must agree to a
      > > > > intercessio.
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and responsibilities
      of
      > > the
      > > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia Centuriata. This
      > > again is
      > > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the Nova Roma voting
      > > system,
      > > > > you must realize how very little say the Plebeians really
      have
      > > over
      > > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia Plebis Tributa has
      > > actually
      > > > > been reduced in its authority over the years.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another matter is how the Constitution placed the Tribuni
      > Plebis
      > > below
      > > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis. Then it became
      that
      > > in
      > > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have to first serve as
      > > Tribunus.
      > > > > How historical is that?
      > > > >
      > > > > There are many issues to consider when it comes to a proper
      > role
      > > for
      > > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be to get the number
      of
      > > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the needs of Nova Roma.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the past, with five
      > > Tribuni,
      > > > > we would end up with only one or two remaining active. Last
      > time
      > > I was
      > > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard from for most of
      > the
      > > year.
      > > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa, Suetonius and I did
      > > well
      > > > > without our other two colleagues. This year again, we have
      > > essentially
      > > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This idea that we need a
      > > buffer by
      > > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking. If a Consul is
      not
      > > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor Galerius is familiar
      > with
      > > in
      > > > > having had Faustus as his consular colleague, do we then
      > increase
      > > the
      > > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next time? No, of
      course
      > > not.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules, Tribuna Livia and
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis Albucius who is also a
      > > former
      > > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova Roma has today in
      > > attaining
      > > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even now, in this
      year's
      > > > > election, we do not have enough candidates to fill all
      offices.
      > > And
      > > > > only two races are contested. Where we suffer most are in the
      > > lower
      > > > > magistracies that we especially need filled with experienced
      > > > > individuals, because it is these lower offices that keep
      things
      > > running
      > > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those attending the
      > > Conventus
      > > > > that a general reduction in the number of all offices would
      > make
      > > our
      > > > > administration more efficient and our elections more
      > competitive.
      > > The
      > > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors consularis where a
      > > number of
      > > > > current and former magistrates, including Tribuni Plebis,
      were
      > > given an
      > > > > opportunity to review the legislation. Although placed into
      > > separate
      > > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on magistrates are
      intended
      > > to
      > > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would say, and I think others would agree, that we need to
      > make
      > > the
      > > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive, in order to get
      > > better
      > > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is now, when it is a
      > > problem
      > > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all enter office
      > > uncontested.
      > > > > We don't know what we will get in office if we allow this to
      > > continue.
      > > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent or irresponsible
      > > Tribunes. What
      > > > > we need are experienced and well qualified individuals to
      fill
      > an
      > > > > important position. Competitive elections improves the
      process
      > by
      > > which
      > > > > we meet that need. This will carry further, into other
      offices
      > as
      > > well,
      > > > > since by making the race for Tribune more competitive, people
      > > will
      > > > > instead look to begin their careers in the lower offices
      where
      > > more
      > > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the races shall
      become
      > > more
      > > > > competitive.
      > > > >
      > > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for the benefit of
      our
      > > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its Citizens, I have
      > offered
      > > the
      > > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge everyone to approve
      those
      > > > > measures.
      > > > >
      > > > > Valete optime
      > > > >
      > > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > > >
      > > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58992 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.

      I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I certainly hope this in no way is associated with national socialism.I hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      Optime vale,
      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus


      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:

      > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...>
      > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      >
      > Salvete!
      >
      > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > welcome they
      > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > do what
      > good I can in the Res publica.
      >
      > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > feel as
      > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > plebeian.
      > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > Sergius
      > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > I made sure
      > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > plebeian. In
      > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > Album Civium
      > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      >
      > Optime valete.
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > Dexter"
      > <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > >
      >
      > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > >
      > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > gens Sergia. He
      > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > Sergii, from
      > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > >
      > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > famous Sergius name
      > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > registered by our
      > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > >
      > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > this bad
      > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > >
      > > Vale.
      > >
      > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58993 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      L. Livia Plauta C. Petronio dextro S.P.D.

      You can't have voted "no" on the proposal to reduce the number of
      tribuni, or have it decided by law, because the vote on that matter
      will only start on the 15th.

      So you must have voted "no" on the two plebiscita, which have nothing
      to do with the number of tribuni, and that are actually supported by
      my colleague Aquila.


      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
      <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
      >
      > C. Petronius T. Flavio tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,
      >
      > I am not surprised that a Tribune of the Plebs is against an other
      > Tribune of the Plebs, but I am surprised that you call us Olebeian
      > citizens to vote "No".
      >
      > You rather must use your "Veto" right, if all the tribunes do not
      > aggree a law proposed by one of them, a vote is not desirable.
      >
      > Because you, as tribune of the Plebs, call us to vote no, I, plebeian
      > voter, voted no. If one tribune is against, it is enough to
      > vote "no".
      >
      > I am against a personal power, and like the Romans did, I am against
      > one man in one place. I prefer the collegial functions. If we did not
      > precise the number of persons which can hold a magistracie (never
      > one), like the tribunat of plebs, we could have only one Tribune of
      > the Plebs! It would be the beginning of the Terror.
      >
      > If you are against the laws of this plebiscit, you must use
      > your "Veto".
      >
      > Vale
      >
      > C. Petronius Dexter
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58994 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Acta [was Performing Roman oratory [was: Facta mea -- My deeds
      L. Livia C. Petronio S.P.D.

      Your words about latin neologisms are very well-said. Personally,
      being Italian, I'm very tempted to say "machina" for "car", because
      that's the word Italians use.
      I like "autocinetum" too for "automobile", because that's the word
      Greeks use, but I've read Avitus argue that Romans actually used
      latin-greek hybrid words, so we may use them too. According to this
      principle "automobilis" would be perfectly acceptable too.

      I guess we will never reach an agreement, but having regional words is
      a smaller problem than people may think.
      In Italy each city has a different word for "chewing-gum", but this
      never creates any relevant problem.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
      <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
      >
      > Maiori C. Petronius s.p.d.,
      >
      > >>>When I joined I met C. Curius Saturninus and A. Apollonius Cordus,
      > now good friends explained the vision of NR: to think like a
      > republican Roman, act like a Roman in 21st century everyday life. A
      > Roman 2,000 years later. What a challenge! That's what makes Nova
      > Roma so unique.<<<
      >
      > Yes, and to express your thougths in Latin, according to the
      > republican Roman maneer, you mostly must use the republican Latin.
      >
      > >>>We're the opposite of re-enactors, we're not like the many Roman
      > cultural orgs that talk only about past history. Our aim is to be
      > Roman. So nothing in our everyday life is off-topic.<<<
      >
      > A Roman citizen is something to be.
      >
      > >>>As for Latin, I enjoy this discussion enormously. When I took
      > Sermo
      > I, Avitus used 'currus' for auto, now it seems 'raeda' what word
      > for 'computer'?<<<
      >
      > It is as I said, for modern subjects you have the choice to use
      > classical Latin words with meanings updated or to use Latin
      > neologisms.
      >
      > The main problem with the neologisms comes from the neologists which
      > propose their neologisms. These modern or new words, of course, have
      > not the traditional neither common using, so, for example, if the
      > neologist is English speaker, the modern Latin word to
      > translate "computer" may be "computatorium" or "computatrum"Â… a word
      > that it sounds with the modern English word "computer". But if the
      > neologists is French, the computer in his native language is
      > said "ordinateur", and naturally the French neologist will propose a
      > modern Latin word as "ordinatorium" or "ordinatrum"Â… and so on. I
      > wonder what Latin neologisms could propose a Latin neologist native
      > Chinese speaker.
      >
      > What about currus or raeda? To evoke the idea of a car you also have
      > carpentum, cisium, and othersÂ… According to my preferences, currus
      > may be a racing car, a formula 1, while a raeda is the usual auto.
      > But if you prefer neologisms, you also can use the neo-Latin word
      > autocinetum, from Greek etymology. It is the word used in the Latin
      > books of Harrius Potter.
      >
      > >>>So the Latin speakers I know who are Nova Romans and agree with
      > the
      > above: Lentulus, Astur, Cordus, Saturninus don't limit their Latin
      > to Classical.<<<
      >
      > Classical Latin is not a limit. As all languages, we have the spoken
      > one and the written one. We could say that, with the time, the French
      > (Italian, SpanishÂ…) language is a spoken Latin, more and more
      > different than the written Latin language. ;o)
      >
      > Vale.
      >
      > C. Petronius Dexter
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58995 From: Chantal Gaudiano Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      Regarding the conversation between Pompeiia Minucia Strabo and Lucia Livia Plauta (My apologies; I can't tell who wrote what, ladies.):

      I agree with following the Roman custom as much as possible without repeating their mistakes and without adopting Roman legislative or magisterial customs we don't need or which don't work well with our online system.

      I would favor amending the constitution so that it would permit us to make changes by lex so that we could adapt to need, rather than having the number of magistrates be fixed by constitutional fiat. That would make the running of Nova Roma much more flexible and easily workable, I think.

      And I am so glad we discontinued the sequential voting. I always found that extremely confusing, and I'm sure there are people whose votes might not have been counted because they voted at the wrong times. It is much easier and simpler, allowing everyone to vote at the same time.

      Salvete,

      Paulla Corva Gaudialis
      Former Rogator
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58997 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salvete,

      It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way connected to
      national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I made this
      email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist.
      One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to become the
      leader of the state (which was named, in the anime, Fuhrer). So this
      email is the product of that obsession at the time. If anyone indeed
      is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a different email.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      >
      > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that
      gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I
      certainly hope this in no way is associated with national socialism.I
      hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the
      meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word
      conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > Optime vale,
      > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...>
      > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > >
      > > Salvete!
      > >
      > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > > welcome they
      > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > > do what
      > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > >
      > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > > feel as
      > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > > plebeian.
      > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > > Sergius
      > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > > I made sure
      > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > > plebeian. In
      > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > > Album Civium
      > > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      > >
      > > Optime valete.
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > > Dexter"
      > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > >
      > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > > Sergii, from
      > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > > >
      > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > > famous Sergius name
      > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > > registered by our
      > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > >
      > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > > this bad
      > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > >
      > > > Vale.
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58998 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of Praetors)
      Salvete!

      I must echo the sentiments of L. Iulius Regulus. Any reduction in the
      Tribunes at this point would only be a detriment to the Plebeian
      Order. I also must express my opposition to any such law that would
      make it necessary for the legislature to determine how many
      magistrates would serve. It is a slippery slope. What standards
      could possibly be used to determine how many Tribunes are truly
      needed? It is easily used for the detriment of the Plebeians.

      The amount of Tribunes should stay the way it is.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Iulius Regulus
      <luciusjul25@...> wrote:
      >
      > Salve,
      >
      > I also disagreee with the reduction of the number of Tribunes. The
      Plebeians need as much representation that they can come by and
      cutting back on the number of Tribunes is not in tune with that
      spirit. I do not understand how reducing the number of Tribunes will
      help the Plebeians and I think as our society grows so should the
      number of Tribunes. If any change were to be made it should be the
      increase of Tribunes, although at this time I think the current
      number is sufficient. As mentioned before, if situations occur in
      their personal lives where they are unable to be active at that same
      time the number of Tribunes are already cut back, leaving behind
      limited representation. 
      >
      > It is discouraging to see that a cut back would ever be mentioned
      and will state that I also say no to any reduction proposed for the
      office of the Tribunes.
      >
      >
      > Lucius Iulius Regulus  
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:00:53 AM
      > Subject: Re: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of
      Praetors)
      >
      >
      > Salve Titus Aquila,
      > Thank you for your efforts to enlighten the Plebian Order, about
      this threat to their representation and the reduction in their power
      to influence their best interests in the Respublica.This is nothing
      new for the politics within Nova Roma whereby certain individuals are
      not satified to represent their class only but wish to consolidate
      power into their own hands ,this may be due to a power play,a case of
      group vanity,or the desire to totaly control this Republic for their
      personal agenda
      > or for a sence of elitism, that will act as a poison that will creep
      into the Respublica if this bill to restict the Plebian order in the
      face of an opposition who's only aim to to create a political
      dictatorship without actually installing a dictator.Who know's that
      may be next if they see they can not silence the Plebians without
      taking away thir rights, using that option.We are faced here with a
      piece of legeslation that in my opinion will gut the Plebian order of
      its most cherished defence against the abuse and the the tyrany of the
      upper classes and their status of those of less nobility and rights
      within the Respublica.The excuse for the case of having less is better
      because of a lack of action by certain Plebsians to me holds no water
      and is a direct insult to all Plebians.Not everyone seeking the office
      of Tribune will neglect their post.Must we swallow this insult to our
      Plebian Order like a child with a benevolent paernt.I as a Plebian
      > unconditionaly say no to any reduction below the five positions we
      already hold,in the face of all odds and, all repricussions to me for
      exercising my right to free speech, such as it exists in the political
      arena at this point in time.My call to all within the Plebian order is
      to return a resounding NO.
      >
      > Save et salvete,
      >
      > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      >
      > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@ yahoo.de>
      wrote:
      >
      > > From: Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@ yahoo.de>
      > > Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of
      Praetors)
      > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 2:06 AM
      > > Salvete Pompeia Senator, Salvete Omnes,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > thank you very much for your response Senator Pompeia. 
      > >
      > > Be assured your comment concerning the Praetores have been
      > > well noted.
      > >    
      > > I would like to provide Consul Piscinus with the chance to
      > > alter the lex Moravia Iulia according to the received
      > > criticism or to withdraw it completely and have it discussed
      > > and elaborated in detail.
      > >
      > > I am ready to act. I am prepared for any action necessary.
      > >
      > > Optime vale
      > > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > Von: pompeia_minucia_ tiberia
      > > <pompeia_minucia_ tiberia@yahoo. com>
      > > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 22:53:30 Uhr
      > > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes (and the Number of
      > > Praetors)
      > >
      > >
      > > ---Salve Aquila Tribune, Salvete Omnes:
      > >
      > > I agree with closer collaboration with the Tribunes
      > > regarding
      > > legislation involving decisions regarding Plebian
      > > magistrates. The
      > > Comitia Centuriata and Senate has to be called to effect a
      > > constitutional change, but this doesn't alter the fact
      > > that you
      > > should have been consulted.
      > >
      > > I admit I've been a lousy Accensus to the Consuls
      > > because I've been
      > > away most of the year, and I don't think I deserve any
      > > century points
      > > (in other words I didn't help with these laws)...but on
      > > to a similar
      > > problem as the one you have cited with the Tribunes.
      > >
      > > I am not comfortable *at all* with the proposed clause *a
      > > number of
      > > Praetores*. We have managed with two all these years...I
      > > would hate
      > > to see *one* who wasn't subject to a veto of a
      > > colleague because we
      > > are smaller. An unfixed number invites the election of a
      > > full
      > > historical complement (up to 10 I think) and I can see
      > > somebody
      > > justifying this by saying the old "well,... it's
      > > historical'.
      > >
      > > And by the Lex Popillia Senatoria the Praetors are mandated
      > >
      > > sublection as Senators...it' s just a matter of
      > > time...depends on when
      > > the Census says there's room. And, anybody else whom
      > > the Censors
      > > might deem as being worthy of being a Senator through past
      > > service in
      > > NR in other areas, stand a slim chance of getting in. The
      > > Censors can
      > > wish and get in line behind the Praetores.
      > >
      > > This might not happen in Plato's Eutopia :>), but I
      > > can see where it
      > > could *conceivably* happen here ....enough that It makes me
      > >
      > > uncomfortable as being part of the constitution.
      > >
      > > I wish Aquila, that you would look at this also.
      > >
      > > Valete
      > > Pompeia
      > >
      > > In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
      > > <titus.aquila@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > T.Flavius Aquila Tribunus Plebis consuli M.Moravio
      > > Piscino
      > > Horatiano S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > The proposal of Tribunus Plebis Plauta might be a
      > > possible
      > > solution.
      > > >
      > > > But how can we be certain that everything is done as
      > > needed ? With
      > > no bad feelings and possible fraud ? How often do we want
      > > to change
      > > the number of magistrates, do we want a constant
      > > fluctuation ? I
      > > still say all of this is too vague and needs to be
      > > discussed in
      > > detail, it should not be presented right now at the end of
      > > an consuls term.
      > > >
      > > > I am still willing to veto this for the following
      > > reasons,
      > > >  
      > > > 1. because it is a patrician law impacting plebeians
      > > > 2. because you have not consulted all of the
      > > magistrates to
      > > eleborate the draft before publishing it
      > > >  
      > > > I will not state veto currently, but it will depend on
      > >
      > > your substitution and changes , especially for the
      > > Tribuni Plebi
      > > section of the lex Moravia Iulia.
      > > >  
      > > > In general I thought we had a change in culture ,
      > > involving all
      > > Magistrates before coming up with laws which have such an
      > > impact ?
      > > >  
      > > > Optime vale
      > > > Titus Flavius Aquila
      > > >
      > > > Tribunus Plebis Nova Roma
      > > >
      > > >  
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > > > Von: marcushoratius <MHoratius@ ..>
      > > > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, den 9. November 2008, 16:07:14 Uhr
      > > > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Three Tribunes
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > M. Moravius Piscinus Consul L. Liviae Plautae Tribunae
      > > Plebis s. p.
      > > d.
      > > >
      > > > Your suggestion is practical and beneficial while
      > > consistent with
      > > the
      > > > intentions of the proposed leges. Therefore I shall
      > > take your
      > > > suggestion and make the substitution.
      > > >
      > > > Gratias tibi ago
      > > >
      > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lucia Livia
      > > Plauta" <cases@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis consuli M. Moravio
      > > Piscino
      > > Horatiano
      > > > S.P.D.
      > > > >
      > > > > I have no idea at the moment whether having less
      > > tribunes will be
      > > a
      > > > > positive or negative thing.
      > > > > What surprised me in your proposal is that you
      > > want to set the
      > > > number
      > > > > of tribunes, while for some other magistrates you
      > > are proposing a
      > > > > constitution change which will allow their number
      > > to be set by a
      > > > > separate law.
      > > > >
      > > > > I find this a very clever solution, because, if
      > > passed, it will
      > > > allow
      > > > > the number of magistrates to be set according to
      > > the needs, the
      > > > > condition, and the size of our Res Publica,
      > > without having to
      > > change
      > > > > the constitution every time.
      > > > >
      > > > > So why can't the same solution be applied to
      > > Tribunes?
      > > > >
      > > > > All it takes is substituting the first paragraph
      > > of your proposed
      > > > > constitution change ("Three (3) tribunes of
      > > the plebs shall be
      > > > elected
      > > > > by the Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term
      > > lasting one year.")
      > > > with
      > > > > one modelled along the lines of the modifications
      > > you proposed for
      > > > > other magistrates:
      > > > >
      > > > > "A number of Tribunes, determined by law,
      > > shall be elected by the
      > > > > Comitia Plebis Tributa to serve a term lasting
      > > one year."
      > > > >
      > > > > This way there would be plenty of time next year
      > > to discuss what
      > > > > number of Tribunes is best, before passing a
      > > relevant law.
      > > > >
      > > > > I would hate to see this small flaw preventing
      > > your proposals from
      > > > > passing, because I think your proposed changes
      > > would benefit
      > > > everybody
      > > > > and be very positive for Nova Roma.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Optime vale.
      > > > >
      > > > > L. Livia Plauta
      > > > >
      > > > > > Salvete Quirites
      > > > > >
      > > > > > While I understand some of the reactions
      > > I've read today, I
      > > think
      > > > that
      > > > > > the objections raised miss the point of the
      > > proposals, and the
      > > > > > objections do so without the benefit of
      > > knowing Nova Roma's
      > > > history
      > > > > > very well.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I, too, have been a Tribunus Plebis, twice.
      > > The first time was
      > > > when
      > > > > > Nova Roma still had only two Tribuni Plebis.
      > > The number of
      > > > Tribuni
      > > > > > Plebis was increased after 2001, mainly by
      > > Patricians,
      > > > specifically to
      > > > > > weaken the power of the office by imposing
      > > this ahistorical
      > > > system we
      > > > > > have today where a majority of the Tribuni
      > > must agree to a
      > > > > > intercessio.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Also, any attempt to address the powers and
      > > responsibilities of
      > > > the
      > > > > > Tribuni Plebis must go through the Comitia
      > > Centuriata. This
      > > > again is
      > > > > > ahistorical. If you know anything about the
      > > Nova Roma voting
      > > > system,
      > > > > > you must realize how very little say the
      > > Plebeians really have
      > > > over
      > > > > > their Tribuni Plebis, and how the Comitia
      > > Plebis Tributa has
      > > > actually
      > > > > > been reduced in its authority over the
      > > years.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Another matter is how the Constitution
      > > placed the Tribuni
      > > Plebis
      > > > below
      > > > > > the Aediles Curules and the Aediles Plebis.
      > > Then it became that
      > > > in
      > > > > > order to serve as Aedilis Plebis, you have
      > > to first serve as
      > > > Tribunus.
      > > > > > How historical is that?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > There are many issues to consider when it
      > > comes to a proper
      > > role
      > > > for
      > > > > > our Tribuni Plebis. The first step must be
      > > to get the number of
      > > > > > Tribunes down to what is suitable to the
      > > needs of Nova Roma.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Censor Galerius raised a point on how in the
      > > past, with five
      > > > Tribuni,
      > > > > > we would end up with only one or two
      > > remaining active. Last
      > > time
      > > > I was
      > > > > > Tribunus, two of our Tribuni were not heard
      > > from for most of
      > > the
      > > > year.
      > > > > > That left three of us alone, and Agrippa,
      > > Suetonius and I did
      > > > well
      > > > > > without our other two colleagues. This year
      > > again, we have
      > > > essentially
      > > > > > had only two active Tribuni Plebis. This
      > > idea that we need a
      > > > buffer by
      > > > > > having more Tribuni is just wrong thinking.
      > > If a Consul is not
      > > > > > fulfilling his or her duties, as Censor
      > > Galerius is familiar
      > > with
      > > > in
      > > > > > having had Faustus as his consular
      > > colleague, do we then
      > > increase
      > > > the
      > > > > > number of Consules to provide a buffer next
      > > time? No, of course
      > > > not.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > During the VI Conventus Dacia we Consules,
      > > Tribuna Livia and
      > > > former
      > > > > > Tribunus Agrippa, along with Aedilis
      > > Albucius who is also a
      > > > former
      > > > > > Tribunus, discussed the problem that Nova
      > > Roma has today in
      > > > attaining
      > > > > > enough candidates to fill all offices. Even
      > > now, in this year's
      > > > > > election, we do not have enough candidates
      > > to fill all offices.
      > > > And
      > > > > > only two races are contested. Where we
      > > suffer most are in the
      > > > lower
      > > > > > magistracies that we especially need filled
      > > with experienced
      > > > > > individuals, because it is these lower
      > > offices that keep things
      > > > running
      > > > > > in Nova Roma. It was the consensus of those
      > > attending the
      > > > Conventus
      > > > > > that a general reduction in the number of
      > > all offices would
      > > make
      > > > our
      > > > > > administration more efficient and our
      > > elections more
      > > competitive.
      > > > The
      > > > > > issue was further discussed in our cohors
      > > consularis where a
      > > > number of
      > > > > > current and former magistrates, including
      > > Tribuni Plebis, were
      > > > given an
      > > > > > opportunity to review the legislation.
      > > Although placed into
      > > > separate
      > > > > > measures, all of the proposed leges on
      > > magistrates are intended
      > > > to
      > > > > > serve the same purposes.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I would say, and I think others would agree,
      > > that we need to
      > > make
      > > > the
      > > > > > election of Tribuni Plebis more competitive,
      > > in order to get
      > > > better
      > > > > > qualified candidates into office. As it is
      > > now, when it is a
      > > > problem
      > > > > > to find five Plebeians willing to run, all
      > > enter office
      > > > uncontested.
      > > > > > We don't know what we will get in office
      > > if we allow this to
      > > > continue.
      > > > > > We don't need a buffer from incompetent
      > > or irresponsible
      > > > Tribunes. What
      > > > > > we need are experienced and well qualified
      > > individuals to fill
      > > an
      > > > > > important position. Competitive elections
      > > improves the process
      > > by
      > > > which
      > > > > > we meet that need. This will carry further,
      > > into other offices
      > > as
      > > > well,
      > > > > > since by making the race for Tribune more
      > > competitive, people
      > > > will
      > > > > > instead look to begin their careers in the
      > > lower offices where
      > > > more
      > > > > > people are needed. And there, too, then the
      > > races shall become
      > > > more
      > > > > > competitive.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > For the good of the Res Publica Libera, for
      > > the benefit of our
      > > > > > administration of Nova Roma for all its
      > > Citizens, I have
      > > offered
      > > > the
      > > > > > proposals before the Comitia. I urge
      > > everyone to approve those
      > > > > > measures.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Valete optime
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Consul Maior Senatus Populique Nova Romae
      > > > > > Senator Tribunicius
      > > > > > Pontifex Maximus
      > > > > > Augur et Magister Collegii Augurum
      > > > > > Flamen Carmentalis
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 58999 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve Cincinnate !

      As Hon. Galerius Aurelianus, my attention has been drawn by your e-
      mail address, "führer", even it is the synonim of "leader", will go
      on evoking, still for many years, Adolf Hitler's title.

      I am not aware of Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist, that I respect
      for the simple reason you have considered it interesting enough to
      take part of it :-), but I am sure that this universe had good
      motivations, such as having different languages and cultures
      represented, to pick up such titles.

      But Aurelianus is right: our Republic are much sensitive to a
      vocabulary who could evoke nazism, racism, antisemitism and
      discrimination: first for general grounds of respect of individuals,
      second for legal reasons towards our national states, last because
      totalitarian states as the 3rd Reich or the Mussolinian Italy have
      tried to convince people that they had their roots in Roman legacy,
      and that it is important for us to show that romanitas is not just
      holding an insigna with an eagle on its top.

      I think that your decision changing this old-life-address ;-) is a
      sound and wise one.


      Tibi gratias, et vale, Sergi.


      P. Memmius Albucius
      cand. praetor



      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sergius Cincinnatus"
      <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:
      >
      > Salvete,
      >
      > It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way connected to
      > national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I made this
      > email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal
      Alchemist.
      > One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to become the
      > leader of the state (which was named, in the anime, Fuhrer). So
      this
      > email is the product of that obsession at the time. If anyone
      indeed
      > is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a different
      email.
      >
      > Optime valete.
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      > >
      > > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      > > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that
      > gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I
      > certainly hope this in no way is associated with national
      socialism.I
      > hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the
      > meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word
      > conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > > Optime vale,
      > > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@>
      > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > Salvete!
      > > >
      > > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > > > welcome they
      > > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > > > do what
      > > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > > >
      > > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > > > feel as
      > > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > > > plebeian.
      > > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > > > Sergius
      > > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > > > I made sure
      > > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > > > plebeian. In
      > > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > > > Album Civium
      > > > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      > > >
      > > > Optime valete.
      > > >
      > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > > > Dexter"
      > > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > > >
      > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > > > Sergii, from
      > > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > > > >
      > > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > > > famous Sergius name
      > > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > > > registered by our
      > > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > > >
      > > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > > > this bad
      > > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > > >
      > > > > Vale.
      > > > >
      > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59000 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve,P.Memmius Albucius

      Thank you for supporting me in this matter.I have already sent a post to him.I do not wish to make it hard on any newcomer without giving them the benefit of the doubt.But you said it right when you said he should change his e-mail handle, hopefully to a Roman one.If not, I would tend to believe it to be a callous act, especially in our modern day world where few do not know the connotations, of the ideology it once and still today represents,and to the unfortunates who are abused by people who hold that name sacred.

      Optime vale,
      For The Gods!
      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus


      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

      > From: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
      > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 8:11 PM
      > Salve Cincinnate !
      >
      > As Hon. Galerius Aurelianus, my attention has been drawn by
      > your e-
      > mail address, "führer", even it is the synonim
      > of "leader", will go
      > on evoking, still for many years, Adolf Hitler's title.
      >
      > I am not aware of Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist, that
      > I respect
      > for the simple reason you have considered it interesting
      > enough to
      > take part of it :-), but I am sure that this universe had
      > good
      > motivations, such as having different languages and
      > cultures
      > represented, to pick up such titles.
      >
      > But Aurelianus is right: our Republic are much sensitive to
      > a
      > vocabulary who could evoke nazism, racism, antisemitism and
      >
      > discrimination: first for general grounds of respect of
      > individuals,
      > second for legal reasons towards our national states, last
      > because
      > totalitarian states as the 3rd Reich or the Mussolinian
      > Italy have
      > tried to convince people that they had their roots in Roman
      > legacy,
      > and that it is important for us to show that romanitas is
      > not just
      > holding an insigna with an eagle on its top.
      >
      > I think that your decision changing this old-life-address
      > ;-) is a
      > sound and wise one.
      >
      >
      > Tibi gratias, et vale, Sergi.
      >
      >
      > P. Memmius Albucius
      > cand. praetor
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sergius
      > Cincinnatus"
      > <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Salvete,
      > >
      > > It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way
      > connected to
      > > national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time
      > I made this
      > > email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime
      > Fullmetal
      > Alchemist.
      > > One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired
      > to become the
      > > leader of the state (which was named, in the anime,
      > Fuhrer). So
      > this
      > > email is the product of that obsession at the time.
      > If anyone
      > indeed
      > > is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a
      > different
      > email.
      > >
      > > Optime valete.
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee
      > <galerius_of_rome@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > > > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as
      > I am concerned.
      > > > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your
      > g-mai; name that
      > > gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova
      > Roma, and I
      > > certainly hope this in no way is associated with
      > national
      > socialism.I
      > > hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you
      > please explain the
      > > meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent
      > but the word
      > > conotates for some many unhappy days in our families
      > past.
      > > > Optime vale,
      > > > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus
      > <fuhrer.mustang@>
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus
      > <fuhrer.mustang@>
      > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and
      > Introduction
      > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque
      > S.P.D.
      > > > >
      > > > > Salvete!
      > > > >
      > > > > First I would like to thank everyone here
      > for the warm
      > > > > welcome they
      > > > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than
      > the chance to
      > > > > do what
      > > > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > > > >
      > > > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius
      > Dexter, if you
      > > > > feel as
      > > > > though I have slighted the honor of gens
      > Sergia by being a
      > > > > plebeian.
      > > > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose
      > the name
      > > > > Sergius
      > > > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I
      > chose gens Sergia,
      > > > > I made sure
      > > > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would
      > be the only
      > > > > plebeian. In
      > > > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having
      > consulted the
      > > > > Album Civium
      > > > > again, there are no patricians registered
      > from gens Sergia.
      > > > >
      > > > > Optime valete.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Gaius Petronius
      > > > > Dexter"
      > > > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > > welcome and it is excellent to
      > see such an
      > > > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius
      > revival of the
      > > > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the
      > Sergii. The Roman
      > > > > Sergii, from
      > > > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas,
      > were Patricians.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in
      > despite is
      > > > > famous Sergius name
      > > > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus
      > cognomen is not
      > > > > registered by our
      > > > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the
      > Sergii are happy at
      > > > > this bad
      > > > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Vale.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59001 From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      It won't be a problem anymore.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
      <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
      >
      > Salve Cincinnate !
      >
      > As Hon. Galerius Aurelianus, my attention has been drawn by your e-
      > mail address, "führer", even it is the synonim of "leader", will go
      > on evoking, still for many years, Adolf Hitler's title.
      >
      > I am not aware of Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist, that I respect
      > for the simple reason you have considered it interesting enough to
      > take part of it :-), but I am sure that this universe had good
      > motivations, such as having different languages and cultures
      > represented, to pick up such titles.
      >
      > But Aurelianus is right: our Republic are much sensitive to a
      > vocabulary who could evoke nazism, racism, antisemitism and
      > discrimination: first for general grounds of respect of individuals,
      > second for legal reasons towards our national states, last because
      > totalitarian states as the 3rd Reich or the Mussolinian Italy have
      > tried to convince people that they had their roots in Roman legacy,
      > and that it is important for us to show that romanitas is not just
      > holding an insigna with an eagle on its top.
      >
      > I think that your decision changing this old-life-address ;-) is a
      > sound and wise one.
      >
      >
      > Tibi gratias, et vale, Sergi.
      >
      >
      > P. Memmius Albucius
      > cand. praetor
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sergius Cincinnatus"
      > <fuhrer.mustang@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Salvete,
      > >
      > > It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way connected to
      > > national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I made this
      > > email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal
      > Alchemist.
      > > One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to become the
      > > leader of the state (which was named, in the anime, Fuhrer). So
      > this
      > > email is the product of that obsession at the time. If anyone
      > indeed
      > > is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a different
      > email.
      > >
      > > Optime valete.
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > > > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      > > > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that
      > > gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I
      > > certainly hope this in no way is associated with national
      > socialism.I
      > > hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the
      > > meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word
      > > conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > > > Optime vale,
      > > > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@>
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@>
      > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > > > >
      > > > > Salvete!
      > > > >
      > > > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > > > > welcome they
      > > > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > > > > do what
      > > > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > > > >
      > > > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > > > > feel as
      > > > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > > > > plebeian.
      > > > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > > > > Sergius
      > > > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > > > > I made sure
      > > > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > > > > plebeian. In
      > > > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > > > > Album Civium
      > > > > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      > > > >
      > > > > Optime valete.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > > > > Dexter"
      > > > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > > > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > > > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > > > > Sergii, from
      > > > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > > > > famous Sergius name
      > > > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > > > > registered by our
      > > > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > > > > this bad
      > > > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Vale.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59002 From: Robert Levee Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve, Sergius Cincinnatus

      Thank you so much for your responce.Forgive me for even bringing up the matter.The word just brought up images of an enemy I have had to face all of my life, and that caused my ancesters to suffer greatly.I accept your statement of innocence but I must say you may find some who might not understand.Please accept my apologies for bringing it up.You are truly welcome here as much as anyone who loves Rome.In time, you will grow to love this wonderful Respublica of ours and you will meet many fine people, who will make you so proud to be here.I wish you the best and hope you hang aroung for another fifty, or sixty years.Perhaps by then many of the plans we have will come to fruition.Such as the Temple for the Gods in Rome and my favorite, an actual territory that we can continue the dreams of Eternal Rome with our own real world state.

      Optime vale,
      For The Gods!
      Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

      --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:

      > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...>
      > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:31 PM
      > Salvete,
      >
      > It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way
      > connected to
      > national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I
      > made this
      > email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal
      > Alchemist.
      > One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to
      > become the
      > leader of the state (which was named, in the anime,
      > Fuhrer). So this
      > email is the product of that obsession at the time. If
      > anyone indeed
      > is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a
      > different email.
      >
      > Optime valete.
      >
      > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee
      > <galerius_of_rome@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      > >
      > > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am
      > concerned.
      > > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai;
      > name that
      > gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova
      > Roma, and I
      > certainly hope this in no way is associated with national
      > socialism.I
      > hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please
      > explain the
      > meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but
      > the word
      > conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > > Optime vale,
      > > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus
      > <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus
      > <fuhrer.mustang@...>
      > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and
      > Introduction
      > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > > >
      > > > Salvete!
      > > >
      > > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the
      > warm
      > > > welcome they
      > > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the
      > chance to
      > > > do what
      > > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > > >
      > > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius
      > Dexter, if you
      > > > feel as
      > > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia
      > by being a
      > > > plebeian.
      > > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the
      > name
      > > > Sergius
      > > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose
      > gens Sergia,
      > > > I made sure
      > > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be
      > the only
      > > > plebeian. In
      > > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having
      > consulted the
      > > > Album Civium
      > > > again, there are no patricians registered from
      > gens Sergia.
      > > >
      > > > Optime valete.
      > > >
      > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius
      > Petronius
      > > > Dexter"
      > > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see
      > such an
      > > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > > >
      > > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius
      > revival of the
      > > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii.
      > The Roman
      > > > Sergii, from
      > > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were
      > Patricians.
      > > > >
      > > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in
      > despite is
      > > > famous Sergius name
      > > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is
      > not
      > > > registered by our
      > > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > > >
      > > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii
      > are happy at
      > > > this bad
      > > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > > >
      > > > > Vale.
      > > > >
      > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > > >
      > >
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59003 From: James V Hooper Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Introduction
      Salve Ralph,
      Welcome to Nova Roma. Do not fret about a name right now it will
      come to you. The region you live in was once part of the Roman Empire, that
      has to be another cause of your wanting to join and learn. I live in the
      United States, but my ancestral homeland is England (Britania). I am quite
      sure there was Roman blood in my early family. Blessings of the Gods and
      Goddesses to you and yours.
      Vale,
      Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


      On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:44:50 -0000
      "rhatsumi" <rhatsumi@...> wrote:
      > Hi there, my name is Ralph, i'm 28 years old and i live in Arnhem, The
      > Netherlands with my girlfriend and my two 8 months old daughters.
      >
      > The first time i took a peek at the Nova Roma website must have been
      > years ago and finally i feel ready to apply for membership.
      > I still have trouble with choosing a name but i'm getting there.
      >
      > I have always adored the ancient romans.
      > A long time ago when i was just a kid i was watching docu's on
      > discovery and the history channel about ancient roman religion,
      > politics, daily life and the roman way of war while all the other kids
      > were watching tom & jerry.
      >
      > In my life i went to many archeological sites and my goal in life is to
      > become a member of a roman recon army (living history).
      > I'm also a follower of Religio Romana so you can say that ancient rome
      > has become my lifestyle.
      >

      BB,
      Warrior
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59004 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve,

      I found no offense in his email name at all. I didn't even notice his email address till it was pointed out. I think people nitpick too much.
      Vale
      - Annia Minucia Marcella
      Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
      http://novabritannia.org
      http://myspace.com/novabritannia
      http://ciarin.com/governor


      A. Sergius Cincinnatus wrote:

      Salvete,

      It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way connected to
      national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I made this
      email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist.
      One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to become the
      leader of the state (which was named, in the anime, Fuhrer). So this
      email is the product of that obsession at the time. If anyone indeed
      is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a different email.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Robert Levee <galerius_of_ rome@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      >
      > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that
      gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I
      certainly hope this in no way is associated with national socialism.I
      hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the
      meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word
      conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > Optime vale,
      > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@ ...>
      > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
      > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > >
      > > Salvete!
      > >
      > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > > welcome they
      > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > > do what
      > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > >
      > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > > feel as
      > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > > plebeian.
      > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > > Sergius
      > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > > I made sure
      > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > > plebeian. In
      > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > > Album Civium
      > > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      > >
      > > Optime valete.
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > > Dexter"
      > > <jfarnoud94@ > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > >
      > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > > Sergii, from
      > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > > >
      > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > > famous Sergius name
      > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > > registered by our
      > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > >
      > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > > this bad
      > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > >
      > > > Vale.
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > >
      >

      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59005 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Three Tribunes
      C. Petronius L. Liviae s.p.d.,

      > You can't have voted "no" on the proposal to reduce the number of
      > tribuni, or have it decided by law, because the vote on that matter
      > will only start on the 15th.

      I wrote "voted" and I thought "will vote". But before the vote is held,
      I said to Flavius that he could use his "veto".

      Optime vale.

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59006 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      C. Petronius A. Sergio s.p.d.,

      > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you feel as
      > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      plebeian.

      I know my English bad. I did not feel you have slighted the Manes of
      the Sergii, but the censors. In my opinion, now you have the duty to
      beg reparation for the Manes of the gens Sergia.

      What were Plebeians and Patricians? The line between them was not the
      wealth or the honors, it was the gentilice cults. Only patricians
      could practice some cults, only patricians could be married by
      confarreatio, only patricians had specific rights and duties...

      We do not have to think that patricians was like the
      medieval "nobles", patriciat was not the nobility of Rome. Patricians
      was the first families of Rome, the Romans of the Romans, the gentes
      which were in the concile/senate of the ancient kings.

      The republican "nobiles" in Rome was the curul magistrates. In the
      same hand, the wealth is not the line between patricians and
      plebeians. The most rich of the Romans, the Roman Cresus, the Roman
      Bill Gates, was M. Licinius Crassus. Crassus was not patrician but
      plebeian.

      > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name Sergius
      > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia, I made
      sure
      > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only plebeian.
      In
      > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the Album
      Civium
      > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.

      I also saw that. Nova Roma recreated new patricians, but it was
      perhaps by ignorance of the gentilice cults and perhaps the founders
      did not know the patrician gentes names. It is true, of course, that
      all the Julii were not patricians nor all the Claudii. But none
      Sergius, it is odd.

      Vale.

      C. Petronius Dexter
      Group: Nova-Roma Message: 59007 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2008-11-10
      Subject: Re: Greetings and Introduction
      Salve,
       
      At least he doesn't have the e-mail domain "killer.kkk.sg". That is the domain(based in Singapore) used by a member in a forum I am on. When he offered e-mail accounts on the forum(EmailDiscussions.com) there was a big uproar from US members of the forum. The owner didn't realize the connotations of "kkk" here in the US. He never changed the domain. His email service is still available.
       
      Vale,
      Quintus Servilius Priscus
      Curator SVR

      On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 20:47, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
      Salve,

      I found no offense in his email name at all. I didn't even notice his email address till it was pointed out. I think people nitpick too much.
      Vale
      - Annia Minucia Marcella
      Legata Pro Praetore Nova Britannia
      http://novabritannia.org
      http://myspace.com/novabritannia
      http://ciarin.com/governor


      A. Sergius Cincinnatus wrote:

      Salvete,

      It is completely innocent, I assure you, and no way connected to
      national socialism. I am not a fascist. At the time I made this
      email address, I was big into the Japanese Anime Fullmetal Alchemist.
      One of my favorite characters in it (Mustang) aspired to become the
      leader of the state (which was named, in the anime, Fuhrer). So this
      email is the product of that obsession at the time. If anyone indeed
      is offended by it, I would be more than happy to use a different email.

      Optime valete.

      --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Salve,A.Sergius Cincinnatus S.P.D.
      >
      > I welcome you to the Republic of Nova Roma.
      > The Latin name you have chosen is fine as far as I am concerned.
      > It is the choice of the word (FUHRER), in your g-mai; name that
      gives me pause.I know we do not allow fascists in Nova Roma, and I
      certainly hope this in no way is associated with national socialism.I
      hope I am wrong and often times am, but could you please explain the
      meaning of this name to me?It may be fairly innocent but the word
      conotates for some many unhappy days in our families past.
      > Optime vale,
      > Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
      >
      >
      > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: A. Sergius Cincinnatus <fuhrer.mustang@...>
      > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Greetings and Introduction
      > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 3:09 PM
      > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus Omnibus Petronioque S.P.D.
      > >
      > > Salvete!
      > >
      > > First I would like to thank everyone here for the warm
      > > welcome they
      > > have given me. Nothing excites me more than the chance to
      > > do what
      > > good I can in the Res publica.
      > >
      > > Secondly, I apologize to you, C. Petronius Dexter, if you
      > > feel as
      > > though I have slighted the honor of gens Sergia by being a
      > > plebeian.
      > > I will not go into detail as to why I chose the name
      > > Sergius
      > > Cincinnatus, but I will say that when I chose gens Sergia,
      > > I made sure
      > > to check the Album Civium to see if I would be the only
      > > plebeian. In
      > > fact I am not the only plebeian, and having consulted the
      > > Album Civium
      > > again, there are no patricians registered from gens Sergia.
      > >
      > > Optime valete.
      > >
      > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius
      > > Dexter"
      > > <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > welcome and it is excellent to see such an
      > > ancient Roman gens as
      > > > > Sergia revived by citizens.
      > > >
      > > > A. Sergius Cincinnatus is not a Sergius revival of the
      > > gens Sergia. He
      > > > is not rekindling the Manes of the Sergii. The Roman
      > > Sergii, from
      > > > Sergestus comrade-in-arms to Aeneas, were Patricians.
      > > >
      > > > Our friend A. Sergius Cincinnatus, in despite is
      > > famous Sergius name
      > > > and his most famous Cincinnatus cognomen is not
      > > registered by our
      > > > censors into the Patrician order!
      > > >
      > > > Note: I wonder if the Manes of the Sergii are happy at
      > > this bad
      > > > treatment done by our censors. ;o)
      > > >
      > > > Vale.
      > > >
      > > > C. Petronius Dexter
      > > >
      >