Salvete

Would the following citizens please drop me a private note listing your
email address as it is needed to update your file in the Censors office.

Fabiana Arminia Metella
Lucius Arminius Cotta
Lucius Arminius Metellus
Manius Arminius Corbulo
Spurius Arminius Carus
Vibius Arminius Corbulus

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

Nova Roma now has official Amazon shops in the USA, Canada and the UK.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Amazon_affiliate

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Salvete vosque bona Neptunus auctet ope

Hodie est Kalendae Decembriae; haec dies nefastus est: Neptuno,
Salaciae, Pietati, Venere et Cupido.

DIE QUINTI TE KALO, IUNO COVELLA

Pietas

"O Gods, I pray, and Pietas, and by the sacred rights of parents,
prohibit this sacrilege from me and put an end to this wickedness
from happening to me." ~ P Ovidius Naso, Metamorphoses 10.321-322

Today celebrates the dedication of the Temple of Pietas in the Circus
Flaminius sometime after 101 BCE.


Neptunus and Salacia

"Neptune, divine Lord of the Trident, on whose high seas we begin to
cross, if my preparations are made justly, grant our fleet to sail
safely, Father, and do not scorn to aid our labors." ~ Sillius
Italicus, Punica 15.159-61

Today also celebrates the restoration of the Temple of Neptunus by
Emperor Augustus in 32 BCE.


AUC 1107 / 354 CE: Constantius closes the temples.


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 52:

"Friendship dances around the world bidding us all to awaken to the
recognition of happiness."

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,

Today in Rome :

(Julian day : 2 454 802).

Kalendis Decembribus
MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.

Day of the week : Lunae dies (Monday).

Lunaris dies: V.
Nundinal letter : G.

Hora ortus Solis : 07:18.
Hora occasus Solis : 16:39.
Temp. Min. : 6° C.
Temp. Max. : 13° C.
Wind on Rome : 51 Km/h.
Humidity: 65%.
Weather: Showers. Clouds. Cool.

Horae diei :

I: 07:18 - 08:05 Iovis hora.
II: 08:05 - 08:52 Martis hora.
III: 08:52 - 09:39 Solis hora.
IV: 09:39 - 10:26 Veneris hora.
V: 10:26 - 11:13 Mercurii hora.
VI: 11:13 - 12:00 Lunae hora.
VII: 12:00 - 12:46 Saturni hora.
VIII: 12:46 - 13:33 Iovis hora.
IX: 13:33 - 14:19 Martis hora.
X: 14:19 - 15:06 Solis hora.
XI: 15:06 - 15:52 Veneris hora.
XII: 15:52 - 16:39 Mercurii hora.


Horae noctis :

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Lunae hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Saturni hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Iovis hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Martis hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Solis hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Veneris hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:13 Mercurii hora.
VIII: 01:13 - 02:26 Lunae hora.
IX: 02:26 - 03:39 Saturni hora.
X: 03:39 - 04:52 Iovis hora.
XI: 04:52 - 06:05 Martis hora.
XII: 06:05 - 07:19 Solis hora.



Valete.

C. Petronius Dexter.

L. Livia Plauta tribuna plebis omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

I hereby reissue the call for CANDIDATES for the office of AEDILIS
PLEBIS (one position available).
The actual election dates will be announced by my successors.

The elected candidate will start his/her terms of office on the first
day after the supplemental election results are
published.

Any and all qualified Plebeian Citizens who desire to hold this
office in the coming months shall:

(1) declare their candidacy to one of the current Tribuni Plebis

and

(2) announce their intentions to run for office before the Comitia
Plebis Tributa

(ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com)

Announcements of candidacy for these offices that are made to any
other Nova Roma lists are allowed but will not meet the requirements
needed to be recognized as a candidate. You must post your
announcement to the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Eligibility:

Candidates must be Cives,in good standing, for at least six full
months before AUC 2761 a. d. IV Idus Dec (10 Dec 2008).
They must be of the Plebeian Order, Assidui, and at least 21 years of
age by AUC 2761 a. d. IV Idus Dec (10 Dec 2008).

Time limits for declaring candidacies:

Announcements of candidacy before the Comitia Plebis Tributa and
Declarations of candidacy to the Tribuni Plebis must be received no
later than 23.59 CET December 10 (before Midnight at Rome, 6:00 PM
EDT, or 3:00 PM PDT)AUC MMDCCLXI.

Publius Constantinus Placidus omnibus civibus SPD.

On behalf of the Aedilitas of Nova Roma, I would like to express my deepest and most heartfelt gratitude to all citizens who subscribed their chariots in the Virtual Chariot Race, to all citizens who submitted their replies to the Historical Quiz "Ipse Dixit, Part II" and, as a whole, to everyone who joined in and took part in this year's Ludi Plebeii. It is exactly because of everybody's willingness to participate that I have been able to make the Ludi themselves take place.

So, gratias plurimas ago vobis...

... or, to sum it up in the two simplest words of all: Thank You!!

Optime valete omnes,
P. Con. Placidus
Aedilis Plebis Novæ Romæ

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, sacerdos Pannoniae,
quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis
plebis, senatui populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:

Salvete, Quirites!

May the Divine Harmony bless you all.

Slowly, the end of Concordia's Sacred Year is here. These are my last Kalends and Ides sacrifices about our Tenth Anniversary. Nova Roma is 10 years old, and honouring this Tenth Anniversary I follow my vow and pray to Concordia constantly on every Kalends and Ides.

This year of Nova Roma is all about making an end of internal conflicts and hate, and starting to think in terms of friendship, cooperation, common dreams, unity, development and concordance.

This is 2761 AUC: the year of Goddess Concordance.

So that Nova Roma can have a permanent sign of these efforts for Goddess Concordance, I publicly announce the foundation of the Sodalitas Concordiae on Kal. Mart. of this year, which after the sacred Anniversary Year will continue this mission making an emphasis on Concordia as a patron deity of Nova Roma, as a virtuous standard of behaviour and as the only way that can give unity, strength and cooperative development for our beloved republic.

This ritual, like the previous one, is focused on the concordance and peace between cultores deorum and Christians. This is a conflict within Nova Roma that should end and be converted into peace and mutual understanding as soon as possible in order to achieve a real and sincere pax deorum.

This has been the ritual for the Kalends of December.

Please, citizens of Nova Roma, concentrate now your prayers on the creative cooperation of the citizenry and successful development of Nova Roma!

Help me with your prayers to make more effective my sacrifice!

PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS!

I especially ask our Magistrates and Senators: send me your prayers to
Concordia and I will allocate them in the Virtual Temple of Concordia of the Nova Roman People:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29

Visit the Virtual Temple of Concordia and leave a personal, public prayer!

PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS!

Today's sacrifice has been done before my home altar. I have worshiped
Concordia for the unity, peace, strengthen and harmony of the New Roman People and I have given Her wine and incense. The ritual has been this:


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SACRIFICIUM CONCORDIAE KALENDIS DECEMBRIBUS ANNIVERSARII SACRI X NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE



Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

PRAEFATIO

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
spes et victoria nostra,
hisce Kalendis Decembribus anni undecimi Novae Romae conditae,
te precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
uti Christianos Novos Romanos et cultores deorum maiorum antiquorum
in pace amicitiaque et fraternitate coniungas,
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno undecimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis, uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Christianis Novis Romanis et cultoribus deorum maiorum antiquorum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

REDDITIO

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
uti te ture commovendo
et vino libando
bonas preces precatus sum,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

PIACULUM

Iane,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine is made.)


VALETE IN CONCORDIA!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, sacerdos

Pannoniae,

> quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis
> plebis, senatui populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:
>
> Salvete, Quirites!
>
> May the Divine Harmony bless you all.
>

Salve!

Thank you for your ritual and prayers to Concordia. I have sent you my
prayer via email. Hopefully Concordia will give us her blessings.

Vale bene,

Annia Minucia Marcella

Salvete Nova Romans
 
I recently asked that a number of citizens, with missing email addresses, post 
a private note to me with their email address as they are not listed in the
Censors office database.
 
I have been informed by T. Arminius Genialis, the Legatus Pro Praetore of Brazil,
that there has been a "catastrophic flood, with hundreds of casualties and
thousands of destroyed houses" in the city of Blumenau, the area where our fellow
citizens live.
 
I ask that all Nova Romans join me in  keeping the people of Brazil
and our citizens who live there in their prayers
 
Pax
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 
 
 

Horae noctis :

 

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Martis hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Solis hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Veneris hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Mercurii hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Lunae hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Saturni hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:13 Iovis hora.
VIII: 01:13 - 02:26 Martis hora.
IX: 02:26 - 03:40 Solis hora.
X: 03:40 - 04:53 Veneris hora.
XI: 04:53 - 06:06 Mercurii hora.
XII: 06:06 - 07:20 Lunae hora.

 

 

 

Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Venus nos complectatur dulce

Hodie est ante diem IIII Nonas Decembris; haec dies nefastus aterque
est.

Venus

"Venus Genetrix, charmer of Gods and mankind, nurturing Mother,
beneath the starry signs that glide through the night, You enliven
the ship-bearing seas and the fruitful earth, since it is through You
that all things are conceived and animated into life to behold the
Light of Day. Goddess, for You the winds make way, the heavenly
clouds open at Your coming, the miraculous earth greets You with
sweet scented flowers, for You the surface of the seas laugh, and the
peaceful heavens glisten in luminescence." ~ Lucretius Carus, De
Rerum Natura 1.1-9

Yesterday saw a festival for Venus and Cupid. As I hadn't said
anything more on I thought that today I would offer some comment on
Venus.

The Etruscan Turan was a Goddess of chastity and love in marriage.
She was often depicted in the dress of a bride with her veil drawn
across Her face and held in Her teeth. Murcia was instead a Goddess
of gardens and spring flowers. Later She was interpreted to be
Myrtea, Goddess of myrtles. The Italic Goddess Herentina or Libitina
was likewise a Goddess of flowers and gardens. But at Rome it was a
different aspect that was most prominent. The sanctuary of Libitina
lay outside the pomerium on the Esquiline Hill. An ordinance by
Servius Tullius had a coin, known as the lucar Libitinae, deposited
to Her sanctuary whenever someone died. Here, too, all deaths at
Rome were registered. And one could purchase the services of
undertakers, grave diggers, and all other requisites for funerals
from her sanctuary. As Venus Lubitania She was again seen as a
Goddess of flowers. As Herentia She was somewhat more like Turan,
and from chaste love in marriage She was associated with the joy that
children bring to a family. These Goddesses were all to become
assimilated at Rome with Venus. Plutarch explained that the Romans
had looked upon "Venus, not inaptly attributing the beginning and end
of man's life to the agency of one and the same deity (Life of Numa
12)." Venus Herself was introduced to Rome no earlier than 217 BCE
when She arrived as Venus Erycina in response to the Sibylline
Oracles that were consulted after the Battle of Lake Trasimene.
Venus Erycina was in fact the Syrian Goddess Atargatis, who would
later be called the Dea Syria. She had a Hellenized cultus in Sicily
with certain features that were never brought to Rome. But from the
Greek misunderstanding of Her Syrian cultus, at Rome Venus Erycina
became a sort of patron and protector of the City's prostitutes,
celebrated on 1 April.. Venus also became associated with the joy
and happiness found at wine festivals, and unlike any other Goddess,
wine was specified as a libation for Venus.

While other Goddesses were assimilated to Venus, Roman scholars also
recognized that there are more than one Venus.

"The first Venus is the Daughter of Caelus and Dies (Sky and Day); I
have seen Her temple at Velia. The second was engendered from the sea-
foam, and as we are told became the Mother of Cupid by Mercurius. The
third Venus (Victrix) is the Daughter of Jupiter and Dione, who
wedded Vulcanus, but who is said to have been the Mother of Anteros
by Mars. The fourth (Venus Erycina) was conceived of Syria and
Cyprus, and is called Astarte; it is recorded that She married
Adonis." ~ M. Tullius Cicero, De Natura Deorum 3.59

Then there is the other Venus, one for whom little is ever said.
Venus Cloaca is a lesser goddess who removes waste and stench from
the City through its sewer system and who restores sweet fragrances.
In doing so Venus Cloaca provides for the health of the City
residents.

Different aspects of Venus come together on the Blessed Isles where
She receives the dead. There it is always springtime and filled with
the scents of Venus' flowers. The souls of the dead are received by
Venus on the Blessed Isles as Her children, for whom She cares before
their reincarnation when She blesses a family with their rebirth into
the world. Through Her agency is a soul (anima) provided to a new-
born, distinct from the divine mind (animus) and the genius or juno
that a child receives. Also through Her agency are couples brought
together to receive one of Her souls. Likewise is Venus associated
with Viriplaca, Verticordia, and Fortuna Virilis who help maintain
marital bliss. In these different ways, and recognized as the Mother
of Aeneas, She was called Venus Genetrix, Mother to all Latins.
Lucretius, above, took this to another level, as the metaphysical
Venus Genetrix who binds all men and women, all the animals of land
and seas, and all plants well, is attributed with animating the
world. Then, too, his entire poem on the "Nature of Things" was
dedicated to Venus who binds all things together, including atoms as
he poses composes the Epicurian-Democratian universe. In that,
Lucretius posed the Goddess of Love as the central force of the
universe.


Plutarch, Roman Questions 31: Talassio

W"hy is the far-famed `Talassio' sung at the marriage ceremony? Is
it derived from talasia (spinning)? For they call the wool-basket
(talaros) talasus. When they lead in the bride, they spread a fleece
beneath her; she herself brings with her a distaff and her spindle,
and wreaths her husband's door with wool. Or is the statement of the
historians true? They relate that there was a certain young man,
brilliant in military achievements and valuable in other ways, whose
name was Talasius; and when the Romans were carrying off the
daughters of the Sabines who had come to see the games, a maiden of
particularly beautiful appearance was being carried off for him by
some plebeian retainers of his. To protect their enterprise and to
prevent anyone from approaching and trying to wrest the maiden from
them, they shouted continually that she was being brought as a wife
for Talasius (Talasio). Since, therefore, everyone honored Talasius,
they followed along and provided escort, joining in the good wishes
and acclamations. Wherefore since Talasius's marriage was happy, they
became accustomed to invoke Talasius in other marriages also, even as
the Greeks invoke Hymen."


AUC 245 / 508 BCE: Horatius Cocles on the Pons Sublicius

"On the appearance of the enemy the country people fled into the City
as best they could. The weak places in the defences were occupied by
military posts; elsewhere the walls and the Tiber were deemed
sufficient protection. The enemy would have forced their way over the
Sublician bridge had it not been for one man, Horatius Cocles. The
good fortune of Rome provided him as her bulwark on that memorable
day. He happened to be on guard at the bridge when he saw the
Janiculum taken by a sudden assault and the enemy rushing down from
it to the river, whilst his own men, a panic-struck mob, were
deserting their posts and throwing away their arms. He reproached
them one after another for their cowardice, tried to stop them,
appealed to them in heaven's name to stand, declared that it was in
vain for them to seek safety in flight whilst leaving the bridge open
behind them, there would very soon be more of the enemy on the
Palatine and the Capitol than there were on the Janiculum. So he
shouted to them to break down the bridge by sword or fire, or by
whatever means they could, he would meet the enemies' attack so far
as one man could keep them at bay. He advanced to the head of the
bridge. Amongst the fugitives, whose backs alone were visible to the
enemy, he was conspicuous as he fronted them armed for fight at close
quarters. The enemy were astounded at his preternatural courage. Two
men were kept by a sense of shame from deserting him-Sp. Lartius and
T. Herminius-both of them men of high birth and renowned courage.
With them he sustained the first tempestuous shock and wild confused
onset, for a brief interval. Then, whilst only a small portion of the
bridge remained and those who were cutting it down called upon them
to retire, he insisted upon these, too, retreating. Looking round
with eyes dark with menace upon the Etruscan chiefs, he challenged
them to single combat, and reproached them all with being the slaves
of tyrant kings, and whilst unmindful of their own liberty coming to
attack that of others. For some time they hesitated, each looking
round upon the others to begin. At length shame roused them to
action, and raising a shout they hurled their javelins from all sides
on their solitary foe. He caught them on his outstretched shield, and
with unshaken resolution kept his place on the bridge with firmly
planted foot. They were just attempting to dislodge him by a charge
when the crash of the broken bridge and the shout which the Romans
raised at seeing the work completed stayed the attack by filling them
with sudden panic. Then Cocles said, "Tiberinus, holy father, I pray
thee to receive into thy propitious stream these arms and this thy
warrior." So, fully armed, he leaped into the Tiber, and though many
missiles fell over him he swam across in safety to his friends: an
act of daring more famous than credible with posterity. The State
showed its gratitude for such courage; his statue was set up in the
Comitium, and as much land given to him as he could drive the plough
round in one day. Besides this public honour, the citizens
individually showed their feeling; for, in spite of the great
scarcity, each, in proportion to his means, sacrificed what he could
from his own store as a gift to Cocles." ~ Titus Livius 2.10


For today's thought we turn to Stobaeus, Sentences 10:

"Neither will the horse be adjudged to be generous, that is
sumptuously adorned, rather the horse whose nature is illustrious;
nor is the man worthy who possesses great wealth, but he whose soul
is generous."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...> wrote:

>
> M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
> plurimam dicit: Venus nos complectatur dulce
>
> Hodie est ante diem IIII Nonas Decembris; haec dies nefastus aterque
> est.
>
> Venus
>

Salve,

Thank you for your post on Venus. The information is very appreciated.

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

Cn. Lentulus C. Petronio suo sal. Yesterday I had a little time to go to the library of the classical philology department and I made a little research, but it was cursory, so I will need to go again. Until that, some ansers:   >>> For sure, the imperium and the symbols of it are inherent to the magistracy.<<< Sometimes yes, sometimes not. There were cases when private persons received imperium but did not hold a magistracy.   >>> What is the religious aspect of the consulship?<<< At the beginning of each year, every consul had to make a report about the situation of the cult of the gods, and other religious matters (referre ad senatum de rebus divinis et humanis, Liv. VI.1, IX.8, XXXVII.1; Cic. ad Quir. post Red. 5), The consuls had to attend to the organization of many religious matters, the first among them was the fixing of the feriae Latinae, and, for example, they had to performe the solemn sacrifice on the Alban mount. The consuls had to consult the auspices before their every significant action and they presided over most of the religious ceremonies and occasions of the state. They were considered the heads of the state, and since the Romans did not make distinction between religion and state, they are de facto involved as a leading and presiding organ in the Roman public religion.   >>> It is a modern reflexion, purple border is never said as religious in ancient books. <<< Because it was natural to them. There are millions of things in Roman history that was not explicitly said by ancient writers but we conjecture. >>> When purple became the imperial color, the emperors tried to forbid the wearing of this color, <<< During the republic, purple was forbidden to wear except the triumphator, and perhaps the censors. Emperors also tried to forbid it, but in fact, during the empire it became more popular for dacoration of private citizens' clothes. The fact itself that it was forbidden to wear for a simple citizen means something. >>> but I never read in ancient books that the purple was "apotropaic" or religious.<<< And what about the toga praetexta of the children? How can you explain it? It is obvious that the toga praetexta of the children had an apotropaic meaning: it signed that the child is under the protection of the divine forces and, as a child, is pure and sacred in itself. This is the very meaning of the toga praetexta and it shows the religious significance in the case of curule magistrates and priesthoods. >>> It is a modern thinking.<<< No, on the contrary!  I think it is a try to adapt the ancient way of thinking. To me it seems that your logic is better called modern, because you make distinction between religious and non-religious, while there was everything religious in the Roman state. >>> I read that it had many color named "purple" from the brown to the violet passing by the red. The ancients had other colors prism than us. <<< I agree with you on this.     >>> What function of the old kings the Vestals had? <<< Originally Vestals were royal princesses in the household of the king, usually daughters and female virgine relatives of the king: so they were royal person, and their function were to keep and serve the royal hearth that was considered the common Hearth of the State. The Vestal Virginity is a royal function and this is why they were repected in so much reverance. Their function belonged to the royal household, this is why their official place was called "Regia" (Royal Palace). >>> The priest which had a royal inheritance was the rex sacrorum.<<< It is true, but there are other offices that had royal inheritance. The function of the kings (regia potestas), as you know surely, was not abolished, but transferred to three other offices: to the consuls, to the pontifices and to the rex sacrorum. The consuls got the military, judicial and civil administrative function; the pontifices got the religious administrative function; the rex sacrorum got nothing but performing those rituals that were forbidden to by done by anybody except a king.     >>> The aediles curules did not had imperium, neither the auspicia maiora, nor the toga praetexta. <<< What you say can be discussed. There are many books that say aediles curules had the imperium, and even in Nova Roma (see our constitution), aediles have imperium. Aediles were preceeded by 2 lictors, that makes the question difficult, since lictors meant imperium. I consulted the Neue Pauly:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realencyclopaedie_der_Classischen_Altertumswissenschaft that is the biggest encyclopedy about classical studies, and I have found that the aediles curules had the toga praetexta. It is also said by Livy: Book VII, 1, in the first sentences: "tres patricios magistratus curulibus sellis praetextatos tamquam consules sedentes nobilitas sibi sumpsisset". The three patrician magistrates with sella curulis and toga praetexta were the new one praetor and the two aediles curules. >>> The toga praetexta and the imperium was not linked with all the curul functions. <<< From all sources and books I have ever read, I must say it is not correct. Imperium was that was not linked with toga praetexta. Curulitas was always linked with toga praetexta, and in the case of the censors with full purple toga - if it's true.   >>> A former consul/praetor did not keep his auspicia maiora, curulis sedes, lictores and toga praetexta after his consulship/praetors hip. <<< Here things are listed in a mixture: you listed things that belongs to imperium and things that sign curulitas. It is true that a former consul did not keep his auspicia maiora and lictores because they belonged to the actual imperium: but he kept the toga praetexta and the sella curulis for life, because the religious sign of his imperium could never be deleted from him. What is then the difference between curulitas and imperium? Originally there was no difference: imperium was part of curulitas and they existed united in the person of the king. Later parts of curulitas was cutten down, such as imperium, and curulitas could be conferred upon magistrates that (probably) did not hold imperium such as aediles curules, and imperium could be given to persons who weren't curule yet such as military and provincial commissioners. We can notice this process continued during the empire and even the signs of curulitas were cutten down and could be given to persons who were not magistartes at all (e.g. "ornamenta consularia"), and titles were separated from the offices and given to persons who never held the magistracy, and the rank and status of a magistracy also was given without wearing even the title (e.g. promoting senators into the "consulares")! >>> Where do you read that after his consulship Cicero, for example, had kept the lictores, the auspicia maiora, the curulis sedes and the toga praetexta? <<< He kept the sella curulis and the toga praetexta, but not the lictores and the auspicia. I can not cite references now, but I will do this homework and will return with sources. >>> Nobody was in the Senate for life, the Censors every 5 years up dated the list of the senators, some of them were removed. <<<< Senators were considered and expected to be senators for life. It was a very big regret and happened very rarely that senators were rejected from the senate by the censors. This is I can answer now, but I still need more time to spend in the library :-) Cura, ut valeas optime!

L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

Due to discussion on the main list I decided to withdraw the
plebiscitum proposal for Lex Livia de tribunis et aedilibus plebis
creandis et consecrandis and to call off voting on this matter.

It seems that the two matters this law was called to settle are
regulated enough by the constitution and most maiorum.

The constitution prescribes that the mandate of magistrates lasts one
year, so the tribunes who took office on December 10 will logically
leave office on December 9 of the following year.

The most maiorum of ancient Rome is sufficiently clear on the fact
that tribuni plebis are sacrosanct, so there's no need for a new law
to state this.

Salve Aquila,
I was going to make a business sewing roman clothes, but
unfortunately I'm only able to do that while in Budapest, and this
year I have been mostly in Italy and travelling.

Now I've been back in Budapest for barely a week, but it looks as if
I will have to go back to Torino very soon, because my mother broke
her ankle.

So no business for this year.

Anyway I have some advice for everybody who wants roman clothes.

Making roman clothes consists of three phases:

1) Aquiring the fabric

2) cutting it

3) sewing it.

For the first phase I have some advantages, because I know where to
buy cheaply, and I now have some sources of cheap hand-woven linen
and wool.
I also have the materials and the technique to dye them with
vegetable dyes, as Romans did.

But it's perfectly possible to go and buy your own fabrics: in every
reasonably-sized city you will find pure linen and wool (they just
might be quite expensive). If you are not too keen on historical
correctness you can buy artificially dyed fabric too (just be careful
that it's very light pastel colours if it's linen).

Cutting the clothes is actually very easy if it's a tunica, stola or
a peplum, because all of these are made from rectangles.

Cutting a toga is another matter. There is a toga calculator that is
reachable from the NR wiki "how to make a toga" page http://
www.novaroma.org/nr/Toga_(Nova_Roma).
Unfortunately, since commercially available fabric is never larger
than 150 cm., the values generated by the toga generator have to be
adjusted to compensate, and this requires complicated calculations
that only Lentulus is capable of doing, as far as I know. But nothing
prevents you from begging Lentulus to make those calculations for
you. Just maybe you'll have to give something in exchange.

The third phase, the sewing, is the only one that requires some skill.
But for someone who can sew, it's actually very easy to do (remember,
we are just sewing rectangles). So my best advice is, after
completing the first two phases, which anyone can do, just pin the
rectangles together the way they will look like when sewn, and take
the half-ready garment to the nearest shop that does small repairs on
clothing. It will take them 10 minutes to do the actual sewing, and
they shouldn't overcharge you.


Otherwise just wait, and around February I should be back in Budapest
and able to take orders.
Take note, though, that I don't have an official business, and,
though I was going to found a small company, I suspect the current
crisis moment is not the best one to do that, so I won't for at least
another year.

Optime vale,
Livia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Quirites,
>  
> I know there are many citizens who are capable of sewing their own

Roman clothes, but for the citizens not being able to do so, is there
anybody out there among our citizens, who is willing to make a
business with sewing Roman Clothes ?  

>  
> Optime valete
> Titus Flavius Aquila
>

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Date:		Wednesday December 3, 2008
Time:		All Day
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Salve!

I just read this post and wanted to offer my services/help. Like
Liva, I live near a large textile district in Los Angeles and I often
travel out there to buy fabric for comissioned costumes and my own
projects. Because the costumes I make are mostly historically based
and I have done re-enacting myself, I know several vendors who
specialize in historical/natural fabrics who have resonable prices
and offer discounts for large/group orders.

It seems that there isn't a unified opinion of what things are made
out of and what color(s) stripes and things should be. I'm pretty
sure I could get swatches and scan them onto the web and describe
their hand ("feel" of the fabric that lends to good/bad drape-
ability) so we all could find good examples, or if anyone was looking
to get a specific fabric or would like to have me make something.
Since I go there frequently, I've also bought fabric for friends.
I am a skilled seamstress and I also have dyeing equipment. I would
just need to know your size and to what specification you'd like your
garment to be made.

Like Livia said, times are tough and my long time dream of doing this
as a business has unfortunately, not worked out. So I've been eeking
by on comissions and eBay auctions. I have a small Photobucket where
you can see what I've done, http://photobucket.com/luciaiuniabruta

Vale,
Lucia Iunia Bruta

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Aquila,
> I was going to make a business sewing roman clothes, but
> unfortunately I'm only able to do that while in Budapest, and this
> year I have been mostly in Italy and travelling.
>
> Now I've been back in Budapest for barely a week, but it looks as

if

> I will have to go back to Torino very soon, because my mother broke
> her ankle.
>
> So no business for this year.
>
> Anyway I have some advice for everybody who wants roman clothes.
>
> Making roman clothes consists of three phases:
>
> 1) Aquiring the fabric
>
> 2) cutting it
>
> 3) sewing it.
>
> For the first phase I have some advantages, because I know where to
> buy cheaply, and I now have some sources of cheap hand-woven linen
> and wool.
> I also have the materials and the technique to dye them with
> vegetable dyes, as Romans did.
>
> But it's perfectly possible to go and buy your own fabrics: in

every

> reasonably-sized city you will find pure linen and wool (they just
> might be quite expensive). If you are not too keen on historical
> correctness you can buy artificially dyed fabric too (just be

careful

> that it's very light pastel colours if it's linen).
>
> Cutting the clothes is actually very easy if it's a tunica, stola

or

> a peplum, because all of these are made from rectangles.
>
> Cutting a toga is another matter. There is a toga calculator that

is

> reachable from the NR wiki "how to make a toga" page http://
> www.novaroma.org/nr/Toga_(Nova_Roma).
> Unfortunately, since commercially available fabric is never larger
> than 150 cm., the values generated by the toga generator have to be
> adjusted to compensate, and this requires complicated calculations
> that only Lentulus is capable of doing, as far as I know. But

nothing

> prevents you from begging Lentulus to make those calculations for
> you. Just maybe you'll have to give something in exchange.
>
> The third phase, the sewing, is the only one that requires some

skill.

> But for someone who can sew, it's actually very easy to do

(remember,

> we are just sewing rectangles). So my best advice is, after
> completing the first two phases, which anyone can do, just pin the
> rectangles together the way they will look like when sewn, and take
> the half-ready garment to the nearest shop that does small repairs

on

> clothing. It will take them 10 minutes to do the actual sewing, and
> they shouldn't overcharge you.
>
>
> Otherwise just wait, and around February I should be back in

Budapest

> and able to take orders.
> Take note, though, that I don't have an official business, and,
> though I was going to found a small company, I suspect the current
> crisis moment is not the best one to do that, so I won't for at

least

> another year.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
> <titus.aquila@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Quirites,
> >  
> > I know there are many citizens who are capable of sewing their

own

> Roman clothes, but for the citizens not being able to do so, is

there

> anybody out there among our citizens, who is willing to make a
> business with sewing Roman Clothes ?  
> >  
> > Optime valete
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> >
>

Salve!

It's a pleasure to meet everyone and thank you all for your wonderful
advice, ideas and links.

So how did the toga work out? Before I found this group, I had about
five different toga diagrams to go off of. I chose the one I thought
would be best for me, what was described as an earlier style that was
simply a half circle (all were either half circles or half circles
with their ends cut off). It is 18 feet long and at its widest, 60
inches. It should have been wider, but fabric only comes in 60" rolls
and I didn't have enough money to buy that much more fabric. From my
readings, older style togas had their stripe on the curved edge and
later ones had it on the straight edge. Mine's 1.5" wide (not big
enough from what I've read here) and on the straight edge since I was
aiming for a late Republican. The stripe's 100% linen hand dyed using
Dharma's fiber reactive dyes, in particular a new color from a line
they developed to replicate vegetable dyes. I made mine out of scraps
from my `300' Spartan cloak. I made my toga out of linen, since it
seemed like it had been an alternative to wool in the hotter months,
from what I've read. Plus, I'm pleb'in it with no job at the moment
and linen was the right price.

I chose not to wear a tunic or a palla. I'd read that way back in the
day, men would simply wear the larger toga by itself and wrap it
differently and then I was watching HBO's Rome for the millionth time
and I really liked the style of Cato's black get up (not quite sure
it qualifies as a toga). Again, not a lot of fabric and plus I was
going to wear at a sci-fi convention so accuracy wasn't important, so
I went with a strapless top made out of the toga linen with a red
border. But I had to make a corset to wear under it.

Wearing the toga was so awesome! I had a little trouble getting the
back cross over to stay in the sinus configuration, but I got it by
day two. I really liked how I could wrap it around my shoulders or
over my head and how the wrap around sections would neatly fall so
that your legs were covered. And the shoes were the best part!

Here are the pictures! More for fun, than anything. Friend's a
photographer-
http://s447.photobucket.com/albums/qq195/luciaiuniabruta/Rome/

Optime vale,

Lucia Iunia Bruta

Now for some late repliesÂ….

Paulla Corva- Pleasure to meet you, too! You're right, the draper in
the King Tut show used the fabric dimensions to figure out how his
body was shaped to support the physical handicap theory. His specific
shape was symptomatic of the disease/deformity. Can't remember what
it was though. Too interested in the clothes!

Livinia, Vestinia- I wonder the same thing about the undergarments.
I'm pretty sure I can figure out the bottom, but the top-? There has
to be ties. I know they aren't shown in mosaics, but I don't think
mosaics would show that much detail. I wonder if they utilized the
bias or a different weave that stretched more than normal? I like the
woven to fit idea. Whatever they used, it was working! Just look at
all the perky statues. Another idea! Once I made this Star Wars
strapless top like the Bikini girl, but because I had a lot to hold,
I made the bottom longer and had ties in the back and when I wore it,
the ties went under and when they were tied tightly, they held up the
top. It looked like a larger version of BG and was moderately
successful.

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus- Thanks for that awesome toga pic! The info
was useful and I did use it, I just regret that I had already cut
mine out when I found that article and this group! Arg.

M. Hortensia Maior- Great reading suggestions! Good thing it's
Saturnalia time, else I would be in BIG trouble!

Livia and Rufus Plauta- I'm very familiar with the leather bikini.
This summer I banded with a group of strapping young men and made
myself a completely historically inaccurate female Spartan costume
based on the movie `300.' However, I did make it the same way that
the Roman one was made. I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable
it was to wear in the hot Atlanta summer. Which makes me think that
it could have been used as underwear, since it is completely probable
that they would have had softer leather than what I used (a recycled
jacket).

Hora ortus Solis : 07:20.
Hora occasus Solis : 16:39.
Temp. Min. : 5° C.
Temp. Max. : 13° C.
Wind on Rome : 17 Km/h.
Humidity: 67%.
Weather: Drizzle. Sun. Cool.

 

Horae diei :

 

I: 07:20 - 08:06 Saturni hora.
II: 08:06 - 08:53 Iovis hora.
III: 08:53 - 09:40 Martis hora.
IV: 09:40 - 10:26 Solis hora.
V: 10:26 - 11:13 Veneris hora.
VI: 11:13 - 12:00 Mercurii hora.
VII: 12:00 - 12:46 Lunae hora.
VIII: 12:46 - 13:33 Saturni hora.
IX: 13:33 - 14:19 Iovis hora.
X: 14:19 - 15:06 Martis hora.
XI: 15:06 - 15:52 Solis hora.
XII: 15:52 - 16:39 Veneris hora.

Horae noctis :

 

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Mercurii hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Lunae hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Saturni hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Iovis hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Martis hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Solis hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:13 Veneris hora.
VIII: 01:13 - 02:27 Mercurii hora.
IX: 02:27 - 03:40 Lunae hora.
X: 03:40 - 04:54 Saturni hora.
XI: 04:54 - 06:07 Iovis hora.
XII: 06:07 - 07:21 Martis hora.

Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
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Date:		Wednesday December 3, 2008
Time:		12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
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M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bona Dea salvere vos iubet.

Hodie est ante diem III Nonas Decembris; haec dies nefastus aterque
est: Bonae Deae

Plutarch, Roman Questions 20: Domestic shrines of the Bona Dea

"Why is it that the women, when they adorn in their houses a shrine
to the women's Goddess, who they call Bona Dea, bring in no myrtle,
although they are very eager to make use of all manner of growing and
blooming plants? Was this Goddess, as the mythologists relate, the
wife of the seer Faunus; and was She secretly addicted to wine, but
did not escape detection and was beaten by Her husband with myrtle
rods, and is this the reason why they do not bring in myrtle and,
when they make libations of wine to her, call it milk? Or is it
because they remain pure from many things, particularly from venery,
when they perform this holy service? For they not only exclude their
husbands, but they also drive everything male out of the house
whenever they conduct the customary ceremonies in honor of the
Goddess. So, because the myrtle is sacred to Venus, they religiously
exclude it. For she whom they now call Venus Murcia, in ancient
days, it seems, they styled Myrtia."

In the early part of December a ceremony was performed for the Bona
Dea with the Vestales Virgines attending. It was performed on behalf
of the Roman people (pro populo Romano), but it was not a ceremony
supported by public funds (publico sumptu). Normally this ritual had
to be performed in the house of a consul or a praetor, that is, in
the home of a magistrate with imperium. (Cicero de Harusp. Resp.
17.37: fit per Virgines Vestales, fit pro populo Romano, in ea domo
quae est in imperio.)

On the Aventine, the priestess who oversaw the Temple of the Bona Dea
was called the Damiatrix (Festus p. 68M). The pig that was
sacrificed to the Bona Dea at Her temple was called the damium
(Paulus 68). Men were banned from entering Her temple (aedes), but
not from Her temple precinct. The exception to the rule, according
to Ovid, was those men whom the Goddess chose Herself (Ovid, Ars
Amortoria 3.637-638). Both men and women called upon the Bona Dea
for Her healing powers (CIL 6.54 et cetera). She was in fact
connected to other healing Goddesses - Ops, Fauna, Fatua among the
Sabines, Angitia among the Marruccini, and Damia at Terrentum
(Macrobius Saturnalia 1.12.16; Paulus 68). However, Lactantus
stated that the true name of the Bona Dea was unknown (1.22), and
Servius Honoratus in commenting on the Aeneid agreed (8.314).

Her Aventine temple, beneath the sacred Rock, Subsaxana, was
dedicated sometime before 123 BCE when Vestal Virgin Licinia then
added an aedicule, pluvinar, and an altar. In 114 BCE, however, the
Senate declared her dedication invalid, she was convicted of
incestum, and executed (Cicero, de Domo 136). It was not until Livia
rededicated the temple, some time after 27 BCE, that Her cultus could
be said to have entered into the State religion (Ovid, Fasti 5.147).
This may explain why the Vestales were present, and why the ceremony
was pro populi yet not supported, officially by the sate.

Men were not to use their drinking vessels at Her rites and were
specifically excluded from Her December ceremony (GRF Aelius Gallus
fr. 18; GRF Trebatius fr. 4; Cicero, De Leginus 2.57; Festus p. 278b,
15; Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.12.25; Servius, Ad Aeneis 2.365, 2.686,
11.158.) A myth told of once when Hercules had come to the sacred
grove of the Bona Dea asking for a drink of water, but even He had to
be turned away by Her priestess.

Wine was banned from Her temple precinct and it was not allowed to be
brought under its own name to Her December rite. Instead it had to
be brought in a mellarium, or honey jar, and referred to only as milk
(Macrobius 1.c; Plutarch, Quaest. Rom. 20). Boughs of myrtle were
banned from Her rites. Both of these aspects to Her rite were
explained by a myth. Identifying the Bona Dea as Fauna, the story
goes that one time Faunus became intoxicated and attempted to induce
His daughter Fauna into an incestuous affair by forcing Her to drink
wine. But Fauna resisted and before She could escape, Faunus beat
Her with myrtle. There would seem, though, to be more to this, for
like the wine brought in as "honey," part of the ritual for the Bona
Dea involved the whipping of a girl with a bough taken from the tree
of Venus, the myrtle. And this would seem to relate to a rite
performed for a new bride in the Esquiline locus of Mefitis, and also
with the Lupercalia, where Faunus was in some accounts identified as
the deity of that festival, and the Lupercali instilled fertility
into women that they whipped along their run with straps cut from the
sacrificial animal.

By the time of Juvenal then, the rites of the Bona Dea were described
as a women's night out, with drinking, dancing, and what have you.
We cannot know exactly how far Juvenal was taking his satire, but it
is clear that the rites of the Bona Dea related to fertility in women.

"Notorious, too, are the ritual mysteries of the Good Goddess, when
flute music stirs the loins, and frenzied women, devotees of Priapus,
sweep along in procession, howling, tossing their hair, wine-flown,
horn-crazy, burning with the desire to get themselves laid. Hark! At
the way they whinney in mounting lust, see the copious flow, the pure
and vintage wine of passion, that splashes upon their thighs." ~
Juvenal, Satires 6.311-318


AUC 1064 / 311 CE: Death of Emperor Diocletianus


Our thought for today is from Epictetus, Enchiridion 40:

"Women from fourteen years old are flattered by men with the title of
mistresses. Therefore, perceiving that they are regarded only as
qualified to give men pleasure, they begin to adorn themselves, and
in that to place all their hopes. It is worthwhile, therefore, to try
that they may perceive themselves honored only so far as they appear
beautiful in their demeanor, and modestly virtuous."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Quirites,
>  
> I know there are many citizens who are capable of sewing their own Roman clothes, but

for the citizens not being able to do so, is there anybody out there among our citizens,
who is willing to make a business with sewing Roman Clothes ?  

>  
> Optime valete
> Titus Flavius Aquila
>

Salve Aquila,

One of NR's citizen's (and resident of Provincia Nova Britannia) - Iulia Cassia Vegetia -
owns and operates La Wren's Nest (http://www.lawrensnest.com/index.html).

Bene Vale

Ti. Horatius Barbatus
Procurator Provincia Nova Britannia

M. Moravius Piscinus salutem:

Other instances where an office was designated by the wearing of a
toga praetexta include those of the flamen Dialis, the pontifices,
the tresviri epulones, and the magistres vicorum.

The flamen Dialis was distinguished from the other flamines by his
white apex and the toga praetexta worn beneath his laena. We can
assume that the other flamines also wore apices made from the hides
of sacrificial victims, but it would seem that these could not be
white like the apex of the flamen Dialis. Likewise in distinguishing
that he alone wore the toga praetexta, we must assume that the other
flamines did not. By virtue of his office, the flamen Dialis also
received a curule seat for when he attended the Senate, and he
received the services of a single lictor. Neither of these
privileges were due to his holding any imperium, and must instead
have related to his religious office.

In appealing to overturn the Lex Oppia, a sumptuary law intended to
control women's dress, tr. pl. L. Valerius stated: "purpura uiri
utemur, praetextati in magistratibus, in sacerdotiis, liberi nostri
praetextis purpura togis utentur; magistratibus in coloniis
municipiisque, hic Romae infimo generi, magistris uicorum, togae
praetextae habendae ius permittemus, nec id ut uiui solum habeant
[tantum] insigne sed etiam ut cum eo crementur mortui." (T. Livius
34.7)

Or as one translation has it, "We, their husbands, shall wear purple,
the toga praetexta will mark those holding magisterial and priestly
offices, our children will wear it, with its purple border; the right
to wear it belongs to the magistrates in the military colonies and
the municipal towns; here in Rome the ward-masters, the lowest rank
of officials, are allowed to wear the toga praetexta. Nor is it only
in their lifetime that they enjoy this distinction; when they die
they are cremated in it."

Beside the Rex Sacrorum and the flamen Dialis, the other sacerdotes
to whom Valerius referred as entitled to wear the toga praetexta were
the pontifices and the tresviri epulones. "Romae eo primum anno
tresuiri epulones facti ...; iis triumuiris item ut pontificibus lege
datum est togae praetextae habendae ius." (T. Livius 33.42.1-2:"This
year for the first time three epulones were appointed, ... They were
allowed by law to wear the toga praetexta like the pontifexes.")

In every case the purpura held some religious significance. Even in
the case of a magister vici, although regarded as a magistrate rather
than a sacerdos, he did function as the praesus in the religious
ceremonies of a vicus. Livius was using the current term from his
time, after Augustus reorganized the City into vici, and the
reference might then instead allude to the curiones. At any rate one
could not concluded that these lowest magistrates, who were often
freedmen, held any form of imperium or curulitatis.

Roman purpura did include a wide range of colors. I seriously doubt
that it included our color purple in most cases during the Republic.
It may have been purple for the Rex Sacrorum, distinguishing him out
from all others. But when the galli first came to Rome and their
chief priest appeared in public wearing gold and purple, the crowd
nearly tore him to pieces because these were colors of a king. The
purpura of a toga praetexta was probably more of a maroon or red-
violet color, while our "purple" was distinguished as the "Punic
purpura." The real distinguishing factor here is not so much the
appearance but the material from which the dye was made, for material
itself, used to make anything, was considered to hold some special
properties that were often attributed to the numina of various
deities. I would have to think that the material used for dying the
threads of a toga praetexta was related to Jupiter since it
designated the flamen Dialis, protected children, a triumphitor, and
the Rex who stood in for Romulus. Then, too, Jupiter is the source
of the religious and military authority of those offices entitled to
wear the toga praetexta. As Pontifex Lentulus reminds us, the Romans
did not separate religion from their thoughts on political offices,
but in our own "modernist revisionism" I think we would still have to
see the religious connotations of this matter leading back to Jupiter
Optimus Maximus as the patron deity of the Republic.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Lentulus C. Petronio suo sal.
>
>
> Yesterday I had a little time to go to the library of the classical

philology department and I made a little research, but it was
cursory, so I will need to go again. Until that, some ansers:

>
>  
>
> >>> For sure, the imperium and the symbols of it
> are inherent to the magistracy.<<<
>
>
> Sometimes yes, sometimes not. There were cases when private persons

received imperium but did not hold a magistracy.

>
>  
>
>
> >>> What is the religious aspect of the consulship?<<<
>
>
> At the beginning of each year, every consul had to make a report

about the situation of the cult of the gods, and other religious
matters (referre ad senatum de rebus divinis et humanis, Liv. VI.1,
IX.8, XXXVII.1; Cic. ad Quir. post Red. 5), The consuls had to attend
to the organization of many religious matters, the first among them
was the fixing of the feriae Latinae, and, for example, they had to
performe the solemn sacrifice on the Alban mount. The consuls had to
consult the auspices before their every significant action and they
presided over most of the religious ceremonies and occasions of the
state. They were considered the heads of the state, and since the
Romans did not make distinction between religion and state, they are
de facto involved as a leading and presiding organ in the Roman
public religion.

>
>
>  
> >>> It is a modern reflexion, purple border is never said as

religious in

> ancient books. <<<
>
>
> Because it was natural to them. There are millions of things in

Roman history that was not explicitly said by ancient writers but we
conjecture.

>
>
> >>> When purple became the imperial color, the emperors tried to
> forbid the wearing of this color, <<<
>
>
> During the republic, purple was forbidden to wear except the

triumphator, and perhaps the censors. Emperors also tried to forbid
it, but in fact, during the empire it became more popular for
dacoration of private citizens' clothes. The fact itself that it was
forbidden to wear for a simple citizen means something.

>
>
> >>> but I never read in ancient books that the
> purple was "apotropaic" or religious.<<<
>
>
> And what about the toga praetexta of the children? How can you

explain it? It is obvious that the toga praetexta of the children had
an apotropaic meaning: it signed that the child is under the
protection of the divine forces and, as a child, is pure and sacred
in itself. This is the very meaning of the toga praetexta and it
shows the religious significance in the case of curule magistrates
and priesthoods.

>
>
> >>> It is a modern thinking.<<<
>
>
> No, on the contrary!  I think it is a try to adapt the ancient way

of thinking. To me it seems that your logic is better called modern,
because you make distinction between religious and non-religious,
while there was everything religious in the Roman state.

>
>
> >>> I read that
> it had many color named "purple" from the brown to the violet

passing by the

> red. The ancients had other colors prism than us. <<<
>
>
> I agree with you on this.
>
>   
> >>> What function of the old kings the Vestals had? <<<
>
>
> Originally Vestals were royal princesses in the household of the

king, usually daughters and female virgine relatives of the king: so
they were royal person, and their function were to keep and serve the
royal hearth that was considered the common Hearth of the State. The
Vestal Virginity is a royal function and this is why they were
repected in so much reverance. Their function belonged to the royal
household, this is why their official place was called "Regia" (Royal
Palace).

>
>
> >>> The priest which
> had a royal inheritance was the rex sacrorum.<<<
>
>
> It is true, but there are other offices that had royal inheritance.

The function of the kings (regia potestas), as you know surely, was
not abolished, but transferred to three other offices: to the
consuls, to the pontifices and to the rex sacrorum. The consuls got
the military, judicial and civil administrative function; the
pontifices got the religious administrative function; the rex
sacrorum got nothing but performing those rituals that were forbidden
to by done by anybody except a king.

>
>  
>
>  
> >>> The aediles curules did not had imperium, neither the auspicia

maiora, nor

> the toga praetexta. <<<
>
>
> What you say can be discussed. There are many books that say

aediles curules had the imperium, and even in Nova Roma (see our
constitution), aediles have imperium. Aediles were preceeded by 2
lictors, that makes the question difficult, since lictors meant
imperium.

>
> I consulted the Neue Pauly:
>  
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realencyclopaedie_der_Classischen_Altertu
mswissenschaft

>
> that is the biggest encyclopedy about classical studies, and I have

found that the aediles curules had the toga praetexta.

>
> It is also said by Livy: Book VII, 1, in the first sentences: "tres

patricios magistratus curulibus sellis praetextatos tamquam consules
sedentes nobilitas sibi sumpsisset". The three patrician magistrates
with sella curulis and toga praetexta were the new one praetor and
the two aediles curules.

>
>
> >>> The toga praetexta and
> the imperium was not linked with all the curul functions. <<<
>
>
> From all sources and books I have ever read, I must say it is not

correct. Imperium was that was not linked with toga praetexta.
Curulitas was always linked with toga praetexta, and in the case of
the censors with full purple toga - if it's true.

>
>
>
>  
> >>> A former consul/praetor did not keep his
> auspicia maiora, curulis sedes, lictores and toga praetexta after

his

> consulship/praetors hip. <<<
>
>
> Here things are listed in a mixture: you listed things that belongs

to imperium and things that sign curulitas. It is true that a former
consul did not keep his auspicia maiora and lictores because they
belonged to the actual imperium: but he kept the toga praetexta and
the sella curulis for life, because the religious sign of his
imperium could never be deleted from him.

>
> What is then the difference between curulitas and imperium?

Originally there was no difference: imperium was part of curulitas
and they existed united in the person of the king. Later parts of
curulitas was cutten down, such as imperium, and curulitas could be
conferred upon magistrates that (probably) did not hold imperium such
as aediles curules, and imperium could be given to persons who
weren't curule yet such as military and provincial commissioners. We
can notice this process continued during the empire and even the
signs of curulitas were cutten down and could be given to persons who
were not magistartes at all (e.g. "ornamenta consularia"), and titles
were separated from the offices and given to persons who never held
the magistracy, and the rank and status of a magistracy also was
given without wearing even the title (e.g. promoting senators into
the "consulares")!

>
>
> >>> Where do you read that after his consulship Cicero, for
> example, had kept the lictores, the auspicia maiora, the curulis

sedes and the

> toga praetexta? <<<
>
>
> He kept the sella curulis and the toga praetexta, but not the

lictores and the auspicia. I can not cite references now, but I will
do this homework and will return with sources.

>
>
> >>> Nobody was in the Senate for life, the
> Censors every 5 years up dated the list of the senators, some of

them were

> removed. <<<<
>
>
> Senators were considered and expected to be senators for life. It

was a very big regret and happened very rarely that senators were
rejected from the senate by the censors.

>
> This is I can answer now, but I still need more time to spend in

the library :-)

>
>
> Cura, ut valeas optime!
>

Does anyone know what the hold up over the results are?

Supposedly it has something to do with the custos but I have no specifics.

Fl. Gal. Aur


-----Original Message-----
From: Q. Valerius Poplicola <catullus.poeta@...>
To: Nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 2:38 pm
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Election Results

>>During the republic, purple was forbidden to wear except the

triumphator, and perhaps the censors.<<

>> The fact itself that it was

forbidden to wear for a simple citizen means something.<<

>>> What function of the old kings the Vestals had?

<<<

>Originally Vestals were royal princesses in the household of the
king, usually daughters and female virgine relatives of the king: so
they were royal person, and their function were to keep and serve the
royal hearth that was considered the common Hearth of the State.<

>Aediles were preceeded by 2 lictors,

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis, praesertim discipulis suis S.P.D.

    For those who may be unfamiliar with this fact, the Academia Thules server has been rather cranky the last couple of days, sending messages very, very late, if at all, and was not working for at least 15 hours.  Now it is operating at a snail’s pace, but THE MACHINE HAS REMOVED ALL STUDENTS FROM THE CLASS LISTS FOR THE SERMO LATINUS COURSES, RUDIMENTA LATINA, AND GRAMMATICA LATINA COURSES.  Only instructors and assistants are still listed.  

    If you were registered in ANY of the above courses, you must attempt to re-register.  Please contact me for the relevant information.   Students registered in Grammatica II and working on their midterm will receive the rest of it via e-mail, as usual, and submit it by the same means.  Students in Rudimenta may have to have their final examinations sent by the same means, so please provide me with your e-mail addresses if you wish to receive credit for this course.  

    A mere 55 or so students have vanished from my course sites; those who are not citizens or at least not on the ML may never even know that this has occurred.   

Valéte.

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		pr. Non. Dec.
Date:		Thursday December 4, 2008
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		The world's oldest and most universally popular holiday celebration has always centered around the winter solstice- marked by the ancients as the birthday of the sun- after which the days get progressively longer, warmer, and more temperate. In ancient Rome, the largest Solstice holiday was the Saturnalia, in honor of the harvest god Saturn. Not many people today know that most of our popular holiday customs are directly descended from the ancient holiday season." For more, read http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa121305a.htm
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L. Livia Plauta A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.

Actually it seems that the AT server is still not working.
Perhaps this announcement is a bit premature, and the students will
reappear once the problems are fixed?
Let's hope so.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia
Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae

voluntatis,

> praesertim discipulis suis S.P.D.
>
> For those who may be unfamiliar with this fact, the Academia

Thules

> server has been rather cranky the last couple of days, sending

messages

> very, very late, if at all, and was not working for at least 15

hours. Now

> it is operating at a snail¹s pace, but THE MACHINE HAS REMOVED ALL

STUDENTS

> FROM THE CLASS LISTS FOR THE SERMO LATINUS COURSES, RUDIMENTA

LATINA, AND

> GRAMMATICA LATINA COURSES. Only instructors and assistants are

still

> listed.
>
> If you were registered in ANY of the above courses, you must

attempt to

> re-register. Please contact me for the relevant information.

Students

> registered in Grammatica II and working on their midterm will

receive the

> rest of it via e-mail, as usual, and submit it by the same means.

Students

> in Rudimenta may have to have their final examinations sent by the

same

> means, so please provide me with your e-mail addresses if you wish

to

> receive credit for this course.
>
> A mere 55 or so students have vanished from my course sites;

those who

> are not citizens or at least not on the ML may never even know that

this has

> occurred.
>
> Valéte.
>

L. Livia Plauta L. Iuniae Brutae sal.

Oh, the photos are very interesting. If I ever wondered why togas
were worn by, hm... that kind of women, now I know. I don't think
they wore toga praetexta, though.

I'm afraid it would be better for you in future to stick to tunica
and palla. And they're a lot simpler to make, too! Or is it that they
don't pose enough of a challenge for you?

Ah, and I'm sorry, but whatever this Dharma dye says, it doesn't
replicate at all the effect of a vegetable dye. With vegetable dyes
it's exactly the other way round than with synthetic ones: it's very
easy to dye wool to bright colours, but all you'll get on linen or
cotton are very pale pastels.
On the other hand purple (purpura) might have worked better on linen,
as indigo does, but I don't think it would have yelded such a scarlet
colour.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@...> wrote:
>
> Salve!
>
> It's a pleasure to meet everyone and thank you all for your
wonderful
> advice, ideas and links.
>
> So how did the toga work out? Before I found this group, I had
about
> five different toga diagrams to go off of. I chose the one I
thought
> would be best for me, what was described as an earlier style that
was
> simply a half circle (all were either half circles or half circles
> with their ends cut off). It is 18 feet long and at its widest, 60
> inches. It should have been wider, but fabric only comes in 60"
rolls
> and I didn't have enough money to buy that much more fabric. From
my
> readings, older style togas had their stripe on the curved edge and
> later ones had it on the straight edge. Mine's 1.5" wide (not big
> enough from what I've read here) and on the straight edge since I
was
> aiming for a late Republican. The stripe's 100% linen hand dyed
using
> Dharma's fiber reactive dyes, in particular a new color from a line
> they developed to replicate vegetable dyes. I made mine out of
scraps
> from my `300' Spartan cloak. I made my toga out of linen, since it
> seemed like it had been an alternative to wool in the hotter
months,
> from what I've read. Plus, I'm pleb'in it with no job at the moment
> and linen was the right price.
>
> I chose not to wear a tunic or a palla. I'd read that way back in
the
> day, men would simply wear the larger toga by itself and wrap it
> differently and then I was watching HBO's Rome for the millionth
time
> and I really liked the style of Cato's black get up (not quite sure
> it qualifies as a toga). Again, not a lot of fabric and plus I was
> going to wear at a sci-fi convention so accuracy wasn't important,
so
> I went with a strapless top made out of the toga linen with a red
> border. But I had to make a corset to wear under it.
>
> Wearing the toga was so awesome! I had a little trouble getting
the
> back cross over to stay in the sinus configuration, but I got it by
> day two. I really liked how I could wrap it around my shoulders or
> over my head and how the wrap around sections would neatly fall so
> that your legs were covered. And the shoes were the best part!
>
> Here are the pictures! More for fun, than anything. Friend's a
> photographer-
> http://s447.photobucket.com/albums/qq195/luciaiuniabruta/Rome/
>
> Optime vale,
>
> Lucia Iunia Bruta
>
> Now for some late repliesÂ….
>
> Paulla Corva- Pleasure to meet you, too! You're right, the draper
in
> the King Tut show used the fabric dimensions to figure out how his
> body was shaped to support the physical handicap theory. His
specific
> shape was symptomatic of the disease/deformity. Can't remember what
> it was though. Too interested in the clothes!
>
> Livinia, Vestinia- I wonder the same thing about the undergarments.
> I'm pretty sure I can figure out the bottom, but the top-? There
has
> to be ties. I know they aren't shown in mosaics, but I don't think
> mosaics would show that much detail. I wonder if they utilized the
> bias or a different weave that stretched more than normal? I like
the
> woven to fit idea. Whatever they used, it was working! Just look at
> all the perky statues. Another idea! Once I made this Star Wars
> strapless top like the Bikini girl, but because I had a lot to
hold,
> I made the bottom longer and had ties in the back and when I wore
it,
> the ties went under and when they were tied tightly, they held up
the
> top. It looked like a larger version of BG and was moderately
> successful.
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus- Thanks for that awesome toga pic! The info
> was useful and I did use it, I just regret that I had already cut
> mine out when I found that article and this group! Arg.
>
> M. Hortensia Maior- Great reading suggestions! Good thing it's
> Saturnalia time, else I would be in BIG trouble!
>
> Livia and Rufus Plauta- I'm very familiar with the leather bikini.
> This summer I banded with a group of strapping young men and made
> myself a completely historically inaccurate female Spartan costume
> based on the movie `300.' However, I did make it the same way that
> the Roman one was made. I was pleasantly surprised at how
comfortable
> it was to wear in the hot Atlanta summer. Which makes me think that
> it could have been used as underwear, since it is completely
probable
> that they would have had softer leather than what I used (a
recycled
> jacket).
>

Cn. Lentulus C. Petronio Dextro, optimo suo s.: >>> What is the religious aspect of the consulship? (which never expired when the consul was not yet consul).<<< There is simple: the religious aspect of a former consul that never expired is that he is marked by the imperium and curulitas for life, and the consequences of this are the huge respect and ability attributed to them. It is why in other republics and other societies, like our modern societies, former polical leaders don't have seat in the parliaments, their powers aren't renewed, they don't have any specific honours and ornaments after their office expired, but Roman curule magistrates, especially those with imperium, were always considered to be able to serve in the capacity of their previous office as promagistrates, simple by renewing their imperium. A consul after his consulship was consular for the rest of his life, and could be renewed as proconsul at anytime. I don't know how to explain it better: there was a somewhat "magical" understanding about imperium, curulitas and, in general, about Roman law by the early Romans, and this continued as a tradition that sometimes was not well understood by the Romans of the later periods. >>> The purple color, as said by sources, was a distinctive color of freedom, high rank and/or wealth. <<< And of was of religious significance, too. >>> The lex Oppia, Cato Censorius tried to limit the wearing of the purple, but never the Republic forbade the purple color to a private citizen. <<< It was not forbidden to have purple as a decorative part or element of a garment, but it was forbidden to wear clothes made full of purple (except some cases like the triumphator or perhaps the censors) or the praetexta (except current and former curule magistrates).   >>> All the children did not wear the toga praetexta. Only the boys, the free boys. Did you think that the Romans did not love their daughter, as well? <<< Yes, it's correct, this is what I meant. But freeborn Roman girls also wore the praetexta, until their marriage.   >>> Your modern thinking is to put an aspect magical, apotropaic in the purple border.<<< In my opinion, my modern thinking was when I did not know how much magical thinking was there in Roman minds. Romans were called the most religious people of the world by outsiders: this was because Romans revered and followed and practiced hundreds of archaic traditions that had their origin in magical thinking. To that, there are several and well known evidences. If you disagree, I will say some.   >>> Toga praetexta is one thing, color purple is an other, imperium is a third. Sometimes the three are connected, sometimes no. <<< At the origins of the Roman state, they were inseparable, then, even during the kingdom, they started to be cut down from each other, and during the imperial period they were indeed three separate things. But the connection between them was never forgotten.   >>> It is not a function of the old kings, but the function of the daughters of Numa Pompilius.<<< The point is that the virginitas vestalis was a function of royal rank. Therefore they lived in the Regia, had many distinctive honours, the purple border for the vestalis maxima among them. Not to forget, my main poin in this very impressive and worthy discussion is to demonstrate that the toga praetexta, and the purple border in general, had a religious significance, derived from royal dignity, and symbolizing connection between gods and citizens of Rome. My other main point is to prove that imperium and curulitas had religious aspect which was indeleble from those who were conferred them.   >>> The Virgin Vestals depicted the daughters of the king Numa Pompilius, but daughter of a king is not a royal function. <<<< The daughter of a king is not a royal person?     >>> The Regia was called Regia because it was the domus of the kings not because the Vestals lived near in their atrium. <<< And why did the Vestals live there? Because their function was connected with royal rank by tradition.   >>> I never read that. I am waiting for your sources. <<< It is poor so far, but I can give three instant sources right now: Cicero, Philippicae II. 43.: "Nescis heri quartum in Circo diem ludorum Romanorum fuisse? te autem ipsum ad populum tulisse, ut quintus praeterea dies Caesari tribueretur? Cur non sumus praetextati? cur honorem Caesaris tua lege datum deseri patimur?" Cicero who is a former magistrate at the time of this speach, asks Antonius why they aren't in toga praetexta at this festivity. It proves that former magistrates had the right to wear the toga praetexta. Second, there is an article from Jonathan Edmondson of the York University, Toronto, in which you can read about former magistrates wearing the toga praetexta: "Current and past curule magistrates (i.e., consuls, praetors and curule aediles) wore the purple bordered toga (the toga praetexta); the rest of the senate the simple white toga, but over a tunic with the broad purple stripe (the latus clavus)." The entire article is here: http://www.the-colosseum.net/around/Edmonson%20public%20spectacles.htm Third, the toga article on the wikipedia states that the toga praetexta was worn by "ex-curule magistrates and dictators, upon burial and apparently at festivals and other celebrations as well." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toga      This is for the time being. Let me, however, say that I enjoy this thoughtful dialog very much and I'm glad we can have you in Nova Roma. I hope this inspires our citizens to ask introduce similar discussions of a variety of Roman topics! Cura, ut valeas! Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

Salve L. Iunia,

>
> Livinia, Vestinia- I wonder the same thing about the undergarments.
> I'm pretty sure I can figure out the bottom, but the top-? There

has

> to be ties. I know they aren't shown in mosaics, but I don't think
> mosaics would show that much detail. I wonder if they utilized the
> bias or a different weave that stretched more than normal? I like

the

> woven to fit idea. Whatever they used, it was working! Just look at
> all the perky statues. Another idea! Once I made this Star Wars
> strapless top like the Bikini girl, but because I had a lot to

hold,

> I made the bottom longer and had ties in the back and when I wore

it,

> the ties went under and when they were tied tightly, they held up

the

> top. It looked like a larger version of BG and was moderately
> successful.
>

So you figured out the bottom and I figured out the top!
I'm pretty sure the mosaic bikini top is a band with two ties at each
end. They go all the way round, tie in front and get tucked under the
band. For bigger breasts, however, I'm sure Romans used a longer band
that crossed in front and passed on the shoulders too.

How do you figure the bottom is made? The "bikini girls" bottom is
not a simple triangle-shaped bikini bottom, like the one from
Vindolanda, but it seems to be made from a band too.

>
> Livia and Rufus Plauta- I'm very familiar with the leather bikini.
> This summer I banded with a group of strapping young men and made
> myself a completely historically inaccurate female Spartan costume
> based on the movie `300.' However, I did make it the same way that
> the Roman one was made. I was pleasantly surprised at how

comfortable

> it was to wear in the hot Atlanta summer. Which makes me think that
> it could have been used as underwear, since it is completely

probable

> that they would have had softer leather than what I used (a

recycled

> jacket).
>

I'll try the leather version then. I still fear it would slip down
when wet, as leather tends to stretch. That would make it better for
underwear than for swimming.

Salvete Omnes,

Citizens of Nova Roma; Residents and Friends of Provincia Nova Britannia

To start the year off, we have a wonderful opportunity to interact with the public at large
and talk about our interests in Rome and Nova Roma.

The organizer of this event has envisioned a general introduction/information
presentation, as well as more of a Wander/Mingle setup, where visitors can interact more
with the living historians, rather than have constant presentation, and especially to avoid
having the crowds constantly migrating from 1st and 3rd floors.

In the Hall there will be tables set up just as was done at the Timeline, for legions and
civilians to set up display and interact with the public.

Here is the introduction to the event -
~ Learn about Rome, the city on the seven hills, by coming to Worcester, the other city
of the seven hills.
~ Travel back in time in our Great Hall which will be transformed into a Roman forum
with ongoing displays of Roman life.
~ There will be demonstrations by various reenactment groups.
~ Talk to civilians to see how our ancient counter parts lived.
~ Experience entertainment with Gladiatorial combats.
~ See the power of Rome through its' legions by meeting legionaries and allied
auxiliaries soldiers.
~ Discover Roman engineering and technology via life size siege engines.

DAY'S SCHEDULE
10:30 "Adlocutio" (addressing the troops) – an introduction by the various groups
present and what they represent - Auditorium
11:30 Legionary – Auditorium

(12-12:45 lunch see below)

1 Auxilaries - Auditorium
1:30 Gladiatorial Combat Demonstration- Great Hall
2~4 Film "300" - Auditorium
2:30 Artillery Presentation - Great Hall
3:30 Legionary Battle Tactic Presentation – Great Hall

12 – 12:45 chow is Higgins Armory Mess, i.e. classroom which will also be the Greenroom
for the presenters.

Citizens of Nova Roma that volunteer to present their interests and share their enthusiasm
for Rome and Nova Roma will have free access to the Museum for the day (and lunch).

If you have a particular interest in Rome and Nova Roma, or a craft you wish to share with
the civies, then please put this date on your calendar. Roman attire is highly encouraged.
Please consider coming if just to man a table and talk about all things Nova Roma.

I encourage every Citizen capable of attending, as well as all Citizens in the six Regios of
Provincia Nova Britannia to make the effort to attend this premier event. What better way
to start the year!?

If you would like to attend, please contact me off-list.

Optime Valete

Ti. Horatius
Procurator Provincia Nova Britannia

http://www.higgins.org/

Salvete,

Bona Noctis Magistra: The server gotta cold and have a tempa-ture ? My students wouls love it, if the compuster was down, I couldn't post grades. or give mid=terms, our District Office was down for 3 weeks, no attendance programs, no Internet....teachers forced to take attendance by hand..sounds suspiciously like a virus from the sound of it..   Okay, my e-mail address is.. www.clannadh@...   Look forward to hearing from you Vale et Bene Michael P. Orley --- On Wed, 12/3/08, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote: From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ***URGENT*** ALL AT LATIN STUDENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED DUE TO SERVER PROBLEMS To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 10:49 PM A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis, praesertim discipulis suis S.P.D.     For those who may be unfamiliar with this fact, the Academia Thules server has been rather cranky the last couple of days, sending messages very, very late, if at all, and was not working for at least 15 hours.  Now it is operating at a snail’s pace, but THE MACHINE HAS REMOVED ALL STUDENTS FROM THE CLASS LISTS FOR THE SERMO LATINUS COURSES, RUDIMENTA LATINA, AND GRAMMATICA LATINA COURSES.  Only instructors and assistants are still listed.       If you were registered in ANY of the above courses, you must attempt to re-register.  Please contact me for the relevant information.   Students registered in Grammatica II and working on their midterm will receive the rest of it via e-mail, as usual, and submit it by the same means.  Students in Rudimenta may have to have their final examinations sent by the same means, so please provide me with your e-mail addresses if you wish to receive credit for this course.       A mere 55 or so students have vanished from my course sites; those who are not citizens or at least not on the ML may never even know that this has occurred.    Valéte.

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,

Today in Rome :

(Julian day : 2 454 805).

Pridie Nonas Decembres
MMDCCLXI anno Vrbis conditae.
Coss. M. Moravio T. Iulio.

Day of the week : Iovis dies (Thursday).

Lunaris dies: VIII.
Nundinal letter : B.


Hora ortus Solis : 07:21.
Hora occasus Solis : 16:38.
Temp. Min. : 2° C.
Temp. Max. : 13° C.
Wind on Rome : 32 Km/h.
Humidity: 67%.
Weather: Clouds. Cool.

Horae diei :

I: 07:21 - 08:07 Solis hora.
II: 08:07 - 08:54 Veneris hora.
III: 08:54 - 09:40 Mercurii hora.
IV: 09:40 - 10:27 Lunae hora.
V: 10:27 - 11:13 Saturni hora.
VI: 11:13 - 12:00 Iovis hora.
VII: 12:00 - 12:46 Martis hora.
VIII: 12:46 - 13:32 Solis hora.
IX: 13:32 - 14:19 Veneris hora.
X: 14:19 - 15:05 Mercurii hora.
XI: 15:05 - 15:51 Lunae hora.
XII: 15:51 - 16:38 Saturni hora.


Horae noctis :

I: 16:38 - 17:51 Iovis hora.
II: 17:51 - 19:05 Martis hora.
III: 19:05 - 20:19 Solis hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:32 Veneris hora.
V: 21:32 - 22:46 Mercurii hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Lunae hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:13 Saturni hora.
VIII: 01:13 - 02:27 Iovis hora.
IX: 02:27 - 03:41 Martis hora.
X: 03:41 - 04:54 Solis hora.
XI: 04:54 - 06:08 Veneris hora.
XII: 06:08 - 07:22 Mercurii hora.


Valete.

C. Petronius Dexter.

A. Tullia Scholastica L. Liviae Plautae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

L. Livia Plauta A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.

Actually it seems that the AT server is still not working.

    ATS:  It has been shut down again, or shut itself off.  It was working, albeit at a crawl so slow that it made snails look like racecars.  


Perhaps this announcement is a bit premature, and the students will
reappear once the problems are fixed?

    ATS:  The announcement was not premature; the server was working after at least 15 hours off duty.  The students have all vanished, as both Avitus and I noticed.  The students cannot get access to the courses.  If they re-register once I get access and can make the courses enrollable and provide the enrollment key, their homework/tests will reappear, but until then, we may have to go back to Yahoo lists.  At least they work most of the time.  

Let's hope so.

    ATS:  Indeed.  

Vale, et valete.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A. Tullia
Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae
voluntatis,
> praesertim discipulis suis S.P.D.
>
>     For those who may be unfamiliar with this fact, the Academia
Thules
> server has been rather cranky the last couple of days, sending
messages
> very, very late, if at all, and was not working for at least 15
hours.  Now
> it is operating at a snail’s pace, but THE MACHINE HAS REMOVED ALL
STUDENTS
> FROM THE CLASS LISTS FOR THE SERMO LATINUS COURSES, RUDIMENTA
LATINA, AND
> GRAMMATICA LATINA COURSES.  Only instructors and assistants are
still
> listed.  
>
>     If you were registered in ANY of the above courses, you must
attempt to
> re-register.  Please contact me for the relevant information.   
Students
> registered in Grammatica II and working on their midterm will
receive the
> rest of it via e-mail, as usual, and submit it by the same means.  
Students
> in Rudimenta may have to have their final examinations sent by the
same
> means, so please provide me with your e-mail addresses if you wish
to
> receive credit for this course.
>
>     A mere 55 or so students have vanished from my course sites;
those who
> are not citizens or at least not on the ML may never even know that
this has
> occurred.   
>
> Valéte.
>

 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/59747

A. Tullia Scholastica D. Suetonio Lupo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

 

Bona Noctis Magistra:

    ATS:  Et bonam noctem tibi exopto!  

The server gotta cold and have a tempa-ture ?

ATS:  More like the server or the ISP in Sweden got a bad case of pneumonia.  Maybe worse.  


My students wouls love it, if the compuster was down, I couldn't post grades. or give mid=terms, our District Office was down for 3 weeks, no attendance programs, no Internet....teachers forced to take attendance by hand..sounds suspiciously like a virus from the sound of it..

    ATS:  Well, in days gone by, one handed the prof a self-addressed postcard in order to receive one’s grade, which they also posted by the classroom door minus one’s name.  One also reported them on paper to the principal/department chair/dean/whatever.  Attendance was taken by numerous means, involving grade books and/or large tagboard cards.  It can be done, and so can the Rudimenta exam if need be, my laddie.  All I have to do is retrieve it and send it to you, or get a copy from Avitus.  My Grammatica II students are taking their midterm, which is always sent via e-mail and returned via the course submission facility AND e-mail.  It’s called backup.  Pretty soon, yours truly may have to conduct the courses via Yahoo lists, as we did in the days before the moodle CMS we now use.  Anyone reading this who is enrolled in the Sermo courses may also send me the homework; I have revealed the lesson due yesterday, but of course cannot get onsite.  Neither can the nonexistent students, who have been dumped.  

    
 
Okay, my e-mail address is..
www.clannadh@... <http://www.clannadh@...>
 
Look forward to hearing from you
Vale et Bene

Vale bene.  

Michael P. Orley



--- On Wed, 12/3/08, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ***URGENT*** ALL AT LATIN STUDENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED DUE TO SERVER PROBLEMS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 10:49 PM

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis, praesertim discipulis suis S.P.D.

    For those who may be unfamiliar with this fact, the Academia Thules server has been rather cranky the last couple of days, sending messages very, very late, if at all, and was not working for at least 15 hours.  Now it is operating at a snail’s pace, but THE MACHINE HAS REMOVED ALL STUDENTS FROM THE CLASS LISTS FOR THE SERMO LATINUS COURSES, RUDIMENTA LATINA, AND GRAMMATICA LATINA COURSES.  Only instructors and assistants are still listed.  

    If you were registered in ANY of the above courses, you must attempt to re-register.  Please contact me for the relevant information.   Students registered in Grammatica II and working on their midterm will receive the rest of it via e-mail, as usual, and submit it by the same means.  Students in Rudimenta may have to have their final examinations sent by the same means, so please provide me with your e-mail addresses if you wish to receive credit for this course.  

    A mere 55 or so students have vanished from my course sites; those who are not citizens or at least not on the ML may never even know that this has occurred.   

Valéte.

 
 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/59747

 A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.

    It sounds like the server has never really "worked".

    ATS:  Right now it seems to be working reasonably well, at normal speed, but even students who have been given the enrollment key cannot enter the courses.  They get an error message.  All Grammatica I and II students, and all Rudimenta students, have been informed of this situation, and some Sermo ones have managed to find out as well.  After I get some sleep, I’ll try to inform as many of them as I can.  There isn’t much point in having pretty software and nice courses if the students cannot register.   If we cannot re-register the Rudimenta students so that they can take their exam onsite, they will, as I informed them, take it via e-mail.  I have now retrieved it, as well as the next assignments for Sermo I and Sermo II.  


Having to turn it off during thunderstorms does not equal "working".

    ATS:  Quintilianus owns and tends the AT server, and feels more comfortable turning it off during T-storms.  I thought a surge protector might help with that, but then I am not a member of the cyberfolk.  Apparently they have had some very bad weather up there the last few days, but that does not seem to be the reason why some messages were delivered a day or more late, or why the server dumped all of the students.  Maybe the authentication function is ailing, as it does sometimes at my ISP.  


    Why don't people around here take IT stuff seriously? I just don't get it.
 
--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Vale, et valete.


 
 
      
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/59747

Salve,

You are cordially invited to launch drinks of Mithras Reader Vol 2 -An
academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman, and Persian Studies.
(available via http://www.lulu.com/content/4848357)

Sunday 14th December 2008, 19:00 - 23:00, upstairs meeting room,
Mitre Pub, High Street, Oxford.

Just to get into the mood of winter solstice. I wonder if Mitre sale
Bull's Blood red wine there :)

RSVP.

Regards,
Nabarz

http://www.myspace.com/nabarz

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Nabarz" <nabarz@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> This might be of interest to some here.
>
> We are pleased to announce the launch of Volume 2 of Mithras
Reader -
> An academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman, and Persian
> Studies.
>
> Full details at http://www.lulu.com/content/4848357
>
> Please feel free to pass on to other interested parties. Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Nabarz.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mithras Reader - An academic and religious journal of Greek, Roman,
> and Persian Studies. Volume II.
>
> Web of Wyrd Press, ISBN-13: 978-0-9556858-1-1.
>
> Editor Payam Nabarz
>
> Section 1: Academic Papers.
> Factors determining the outside projection of the Mithraic
Mysteries
> by Dr. Israel Campos Méndez.
> The Mithras Liturgy: cult liturgy, religious ritual, or magical
> theurgy? Some aspects and considerations of the Mithras Liturgy
from
> the Paris Codex and what they may imply for the origin and purpose
of
> this spell by Kim Huggens.
>
> Section 2: Arts.
> 'For example Mithras' part II exhibition by Farangis Yegane: The
> Suncircle, The Wind, Mithras slaying the Bull, The Sacrifice in the
> Abrahamic Religions, Lithographs.
> Mithras-Phanes art piece by James Rodriguez.
> Temple of Mithra in Garni, Armenia, photos by Jalil Nozari.
> Mithras artistic depiction by Robert Kavjian.
>
> Section 3: Religious Articles
> MITHRAS SOL INVICTUS Invocation by M. Hajduk.
> Ode to Aphrodite by Sappho, translated by Harita Meenee.
> Norooz Phiroze by Farida Bamji.
> Disappearing Shrines and Moving Shrines by S. David.
> The Sleeping Lord by Katherine Sutherland.
> The right handed handshake of the Gods by Payam Nabarz.
> Book Reviews:
> Beck, R. The Religion of the Mithras Cult in the Roman Empire.
> Mysteries of the Unconquered Sun. Review by: Dr. Israel Campos
Méndez.
>
> Mithras Readers: An Academic and Religious Journal of Greek, Roman
> and Persian Studies is dedicated to all the religions of the
> classical world. We invite submissions of academic papers from
> researchers and spiritual articles from practitioners of the
> religions of the classical world. We also welcome classical world
> based art work, both modern interpretations and traditional forms.
>
> The Journal is divided into three sections. Part 1 contains the
> academic papers; Part 2 Mithraic based art work, sculptures and
> paintings; and the Part 3 there are religious articles by modern
> practitioners, rites, hymns and poetry.
>
> The journal is available via http://www.lulu.com/content/4848357
> as both printed and download formats. It is a paperback with 102
> pages. Web of Wyrd Press, ISBN-13: 978-0-9556858-1-1.
>
> Printed colour cover and black and white interior £15.55.
> Download format is colour interior £12.50.
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodiant.

Hodie est die pristini Nonas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est:

AUC 690 / 63 BCE: The sacrilegium of the rites of the Bona Dea

"It was at this time that Publius Clodius debauched Caesar's wife in
Caesar's own house and during the performance of the rites which
according to ancestral custom the Vestals carried out at the
residences of consuls and praetors out of sight of the whole male
population. Caesar brought no charge against him, understanding well
that on account of his associates he would not be convicted; but he
divorced his wife, telling her that he did not really believe the
story, but that he could no longer live with her inasmuch as she had
once been suspected of committing adultery; for a chaste wife not
only must not err, but must not even incur any evil suspicion. The
next year, in the consulship of Piso and Marcus Messalla (61 BCE),
the optimates showed their hatred of Clodius and at the same time
made expiation for his crime by bringing him to trial, since the
pontifices had decided that in view of his act the rites had not been
duly performed and should be repeated. He was accused of adultery, in
spite of Caesar's silence, and of mutiny at Nisibis, and furthermore
of holding guilty relations with his sister; yet he was acquitted,
although the jurymen had requested and obtained of the senate a guard
to prevent their suffering any harm at his hands. With reference to
this Catulus jestingly remarked that they had asked for the guard,
not in order to condemn Clodius with safety, but in order to save for
themselves the money which they had received in bribes. Now Catulus
died shortly afterwards." ~ Dio Cassius 37.35-36

It was after midnight, the morning of 4 December 63 BCE, that the
sacra Bonae Deae was held for the first time in the home of G. Iulius
Caesar. This was unusual for two reasons. First, before the reign
of Augustus, Roman festivals did not generally fall between the
Kalends and Nones of a month. Secondly, the rites were to be
conducted in the home of a magistrate who held imperium. At this
time Caesar was Praetor designatus for the following year, but not
having taken office, he did not yet hold imperium. Caesar was,
however, the Pontifex Maximus and thus would have something to say
over where the Vestales Virgines would attend such rites, and when.
In 62 B. C. E. the rites would again be held in the home of Caesar,
who did hold imperium by then, and presumably in the Regia where he
later took residence as Pontifex Maximus.

What happened in 63 BCE remains a mystery and should be considered in
the context of events before and after. The ritual was performed
shortly after Cicero had driven Catilina from Rome, but before
Catalina was finally defeated. Caesar had the Tribunus Plebis Titus
Labienus put forth the lex Domitia, by which elections would be held
to replace Metellus Pius as Pontifex Maximus. Caesar had only newly
won that election with popular support over the Optime's candidate
Catulus. Caesar was also attempting to remove Catulus as a duumvir
for the reconstruction of the Capitolium, accusing Catulus of
embezzlement. Later it would be Catulus who was one of those behind
the attempt to prosecute Clodius.

Caesar's mother Aurelia and his wife Pompeia hosted the women's rite
of the Bona Dea for 63 BCE. Arriving with the Vestales Virgines was
an unexpected guest. Aurelia recognized that beneath the robes of a
woman a man had entered these sacred rites. Or perhaps Aurelia
recognized that it was the wrong man. These rites should have been
held after the Nones, possibly on 7 December. On 9 December was then
held the Optalia, or the public festival for Ops. As we saw
yesterday, the Bona Dea was identified with Ops as well as with Fauna
(Macrobius Saturnalia 1.12.16). There was another ritual, held at an
unspecified date, when the Pontifex Maximus was to enter a sacullum
of Ops in the Regia while donning the dress and veil of a Vestal
Virgin. Perhaps there was some importance to the fact that it was
Aurelia who discovered the presence of a man, since if indeed Caesar
was expected to be there, Aurelia would have been the one woman
present who could recognize that the man under a veil was not her
son.

Claudius Pulcher, for that was his name at the time, was discovered,
and driven away. Later, when asked, the Vestales replied that the
ritual had not been violated by his presence, and yet it was decided
that the Vestales Virgines would conduct the ritual over, and by
themselves. If the story was at all true that Claudius was present
to seduce Caesar's wife, and in the process he had defiled a sacred
rite held inside Caesar's very home, just after Caesar had recently
become Pontifex Maximus, then it is hard to understand why Caesar
would not have done more against Claudius. In fact, even in
divorcing Pompeia, supposedly over this affair, Caesar did not accuse
her of adultery with Claudius. As it was, Claudius was not put on
trial until 61 BCE, after Caesar's term as Praetor. He was charged
with incestum; that is, violating sacred law. Claudius Pulcher's
defense was that he was in another town, too distant from Rome to
have possibly arrived that night. But Cicero was witness against
Claudius, saying that he had seen him near Rome earlier on the day in
question. Claudius was acquitted none the less as public opinion had
turned against Cicero over the matter of his having executed
Lentullus without trial. Catulus, an instigator for the trial of
Claudius, died soon afterward. Claudius then had himself adopted
into a Plebeian family, by which he changed his name to its plebeian
form, Clodius Pulcher, so that he could be elected Tribunus Plebis.
He next used that office to seek revenge on any who were involved in
prosecuting him, including sending Milo into exile and threatening to
do the same to Cicero for being a witness against him.


Our thought for today is from Stobaeus, Ethical Sentences 45:

"Do those things which you judge to be beautiful, though in doing
them you should be without renown. For the rabble is a bad judge of a
good thing."

>
> One of NR's citizen's (and resident of Provincia Nova Britannia) -

Iulia Cassia Vegetia -

> owns and operates La Wren's Nest

(http://www.lawrensnest.com/index.html).

>
> Bene Vale
>
> Ti. Horatius Barbatus
> Procurator Provincia Nova Britannia
>

Salvete,
I am the owner of Venetian Cat Studio, and do Roman pottery.(Julia
Passamonti-Colamartino,aka Iulia Cassia Vegetia).
Lawrence and Julie Brooks own LaWren's nest, and they do extremely
fine work and are also a pleasure to do business with.

Pax et Lux,
IVLIA

----- Original Message -----

From: A. Tullia Scholastica

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:49 AM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ***URGENT*** ALL AT LATIN STUDENTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED DUE TO SERVER PROBLEMS

 A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.

    It sounds like the server has never really "worked".

    ATS:  Right now it seems to be working reasonably well, at normal speed, but even students who have been given the enrollment key cannot enter the courses.  They get an error message.  All Grammatica I and II students, and all Rudimenta students, have been informed of this situation, and some Sermo ones have managed to find out as well.  After I get some sleep, I’ll try to inform as many of them as I can.  There isn’t much point in having pretty software and nice courses if the students cannot register.   If we cannot re-register the Rudimenta students so that they can take their exam onsite, they will, as I informed them, take it via e-mail.  I have now retrieved it, as well as the next assignments for Sermo I and Sermo II.  


Having to turn it off during thunderstorms does not equal "working".

    ATS:  Quintilianus owns and tends the AT server, and feels more comfortable turning it off during T-storms.  I thought a surge protector might help with that, but then I am not a member of the cyberfolk.  Apparently they have had some very bad weather up there the last few days, but that does not seem to be the reason why some messages were delivered a day or more late, or why the server dumped all of the students.  Maybe the authentication function is ailing, as it does sometimes at my ISP.  


    Why don't people around here take IT stuff seriously? I just don't get it.
 
--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Vale, et valete.


 
 
      
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Iulius Probus tribunus plebis SPD.

Senate Voting Results.

The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been
tallied as follows:

Voting began at 08.00 hrs CET on Wednesday 26 November 2761 and ended
at 16.00 hrs CET on Saturday 29 November 2761.

The following 31 Senators cast votes in time. They are referred to
below by their initials, in the order in which they cast their votes:

[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

The following former high magistrate has ius sententiae:
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

The following 4 Senators did not cast a vote (their absence was not
announced or justified):
[GEC] Gaius Equitius Cato.
[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna.
[FGA] Flavius Galerius Aurelianus.
[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia.

The following Senator absence during the vote is justified:
[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus.

The necessary majority for a Senatus consultum was therefore 17 votes
in favor. "UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "ANTIQUO"
is a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.

The Senate was called to vote on the following agenda:
------------------------------------------------------

Item I: Senate appointments reports.

The Senate of Nova Roma by this consultum declares that all Senate
appointments must submit to the Senate, no late than kalends of
November each year, reports of their activity. Such communications
should, but are not required to, include commentary about the current
situation, achievments, future intentions and other information
relevant to the Senate.

UTI ROGAS 28.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 1.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus.Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.ABSTINEO, in order to support Consul
Iulius' good intention.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Vti rogas. I would ask which senatus
consulta this replaces? We need a name so there is no
misunderstanding. We should still list all the appointments this
applies to.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Uti Rogas
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.No.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Uti rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus. Vti rogas. I vote to approve reports
from senate appointments as proposed.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas. I have no objections
against this issue. If someone is appointed into an office by this
August Body, he shall have the obligation to report about his
activities.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; seems a common
sense advisory to me.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.YES.
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.Yes.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.UTI ROGAS.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Uti rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Abstineo. I would have liked to have
seen a definitive list of which Senate appointees are covered by
this, for it makes sense for some, but not others.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.VTI ROGAS
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Uti Rogas.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Abstineo.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
-----------------------------------------------

Item II: Nova Roma Sodalitas reports to the Senate.

The Senate of Nova Roma by this consultum declares that all Nova Roma
sodalitas chief officers must submit to the Senate, no late than
Kalends of November each year, reports of activity. Such
communications should, but are not required to, include commentary
about the current situation of sodalitas, achievments, future
intentions and other information relevant to the Senate.

UTI ROGAS 18.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 13.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.ANTIQUO.This item does not specify
what sodalitates are concerned, official ones or not. Keeping thus
all of them in the same case, it implies that the non official
sodalitates would report to the Senate, which is illegal, for these
ones are ordinary groups and associations and thus not a part of our
Roman State. Such a reporting obligation would violate the right that
our cives have to create and take part to private groups freely,
outside of our State's survey. This said, I would suggest our consuls
to propose a modification of our legislation on sodalitates, which
does not clearly define the place of the recognized or "official"
sodalitates in our public field, and a fortiori, in or in relation
with our State.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Antiquo.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Antiquo.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.No.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Antiquo.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.Vti rogas. I vote to approve reports from
sodalitates as proposed.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; as a Dominus
Sodalis, again, a common sense advisory.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.NO.I see no purpose in this item. If a
Sodalitas is successful those who take part in it will advertise it's
success to others interested. If it is
not who of the Magistrate's will attempt to assist it??
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.No.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.ANTIQUO. This extends, intentionally or
not, the reach of the Senate into any sodalitas, private
or "official". Are we now to make judgments on whether one is
performing up to "expectations"? That is a matter for the members of
each Sodalitas - official or unofficial, not this house. The "state"
is overreaching itself here and to what practical use would all this
information be put to by members here? Just because a sodalitas
has "official" status does not mean that the state should root around
in its business. An unnecessary burden for no point.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Antiquo. I support senator
Audens on this issue.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Antiquo. Regrettably I could not get a
word in edgewise on this during the contio, but I agree with the
comments of others to date on this, and add that as a member of five
sodalities and officer of three, there is no need for this.
Moreover, in the case of at least one sodalitas which has elected
officers, the terms would just be starting by the specified date,
which would put the responsible party at a disadvantage. Even worse,
for two consecutive years, the head of one official sodalitas has
disappeared, and we have to arrange elections at a most inconvenient
time. Sodalities tend to deal with e-mail, not event production;
achievements are normally difficult to quantify, or even to describe,
and officers hard to find. Rare is the actual project performed by a
sodalitas. The Assimil text translation undertaken a couple of years
ago by members of Latinitas is an anomaly, not the normal run of
things there or in any sodalitas.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.VTI ROGAS.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.ANTIQUO. In my opinion this goes
too far. Too intrusive.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Uti Rogas.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Abstieno.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Antiquo.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Antiquo. I feel that our Sodalitas should
not be considerated official institutions submitted to direct
supervision, but more autonomous ones. Accordingly, I dont think
anymore that the heads of the sodalitates should receive Century
Points.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
-----------------------------------

Item III: The Senate approves the Senate handbook.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Senate_Handbook_%28Nova_Roma%29

UTI ROGAS 27.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 2.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.ABSTINEO, in order to support the work
done, which will give us a first good basis for a better articulated
handbook.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Vti rogas. Any suggestions for
additions/deletions are still welcome. Please drop a note to the
committee.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Uti Rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.No.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Uti rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus. Vti rogas I vote to approve the
handbook.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Abstineo.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; as with any
document, it will likely be a work in progress, but as the Republic
and Senate grow and evolve, so to will this handbook.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.YES.I agree that it is a work "In
Progress" but it is a beginning.
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.No I don't see the need for it.
I do not believe it is necessary.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.UTI ROGAS.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Uti rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Assentior; uti rogas.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.VTI ROGAS.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Uti Rogas.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas, with the understanding this
is a living document.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Abstineo.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
--------------------------------------------

Item IV: The Senate award the Nova Roma CFO with 10 CP 5CP (past
service).

UTI ROGAS 26.
ABSTINEO 1.
ANTIQUO 5.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.ANTIQUO : this item has no utility and
is unconstitional. The Nova Roma CFO is not an office of our State,
but an office of Nova Roma non profit making corporation. It thus
does not exist in our State. Not existing, it cannot be rewarded, by
the Senate and in the frame of Its powers, century points. If we want
to underline the need we have of a CFO or reward the work done, we
must do it inside our non profit corporation frame. In addition, the
proposed item opens the question of the place and appointment of the
quaestor(s) we traditionnally assign to our Treasury. As long as our
Constitution is not modified, the "quaestors assigned directly to the
consuls shall supervise the whole of the aerarium (treasury)". So, in
the frame of our State, there is no place for both quaestors and a
CFO. Our consuls must thus find a tool which would allow us to keep
on working in the frame of our Roman State (quaestors) and to take
advantage of the skills of a CFO in the frame of our non profit
making corporation.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Vti rogas. And a very big THANK
YOU!!!
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Uti Rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.Yes.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Uti rogas. With extreme
gratitude to our current CFO. Well done!
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.Vti rogas I vote to award the CFO with
the century points proposed.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus. Ita; recognition and
thanks should be customary, never unusual.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.YES. I have known the CFO for a few
years and have worked closely with her as the Legate for the Regio
Connecticut. She is an intelligent woman and devoted to the tasks
that she undertakes,
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.No. As stated in the discussion,
I think Century points are useless once you are already in the first
class. If we want to show gratitude to our CFO, we should give
something more of substance, something that has more value to our
CFO - and that would be some funds. Not empty century points that
certainly wont make any difference to a person who is already in the
First Class.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.ANTIQUO. As the Consul has initiated a
discussion on the question of recognition and possibly some form of
payments, this item should, in my view, have been deferred until the
result of that discussion was concluded. At that point decisions
could be made as whether to combine payments with points, or not. We
are approaching the question of recognition in a fragmented fashion.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Antiquo. I really don't like
the idea of the senate awarding century points directly, as opposed
to appointing officials who, according to
legislation, receive century points for those appointments.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Assentior; uti rogas.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.ANTIQVO: I know well that Roma was an
holygarchy and this means more power to the Senatus, but honestly I
can't accept it.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Abstineo.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Uti Rogas..although I would be willing
to do more than this.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Uti Rogas.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
---------------------------------------

Item V: Appointment of governor. Ti. Horatius Barbatus as legatus pro
praetore of provincia Nova Britannia.

UTI ROGAS 29.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 0.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.UTI ROGAS, with my best wishes to the
new governor and my thanks to the legatus p.p..
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.He'll do a wonderful job, I'm
sure of it.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Uti Rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.Abstain.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Uti rogas. I have been
impressed by Barbatus so far and think he will do an excellent job.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas and I thank him for
stepping up to the plate for this work.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.Vti rogas I vote to appoint Ti. Horatius
Barbatus as legatus pro praetore of provincia Nova Britannia.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; as an expatriate
of this Province, I've kept up a bit, good choice.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.YES. I have worked with this gentleman
closely over the last two years and believe him to be not only
competant to do the job of a Governor admirably, but also to stick
with it and not 'disappear" as has happened in other Provincias.
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.Yes.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.UTI ROGAS.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Uti rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Assentior; uti rogas.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.ABSTINEO: I don't know this gentleman.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Abstineo.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Uti Rogas.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
-------------------------------

Item VI: Appointment of interpreter. According lex Cornelia de
linguis publicis, the Senate appoint C. Petronius Dexter as
interpreter for French.

UTI ROGAS 29.
ABSTINEO 3.
ANTIQUO 0.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius.ABSTINEO.
I have, since twenty months, underlined the fact that our
Interpretatership system does not work, at least to answer all our
needs. What we need is a coordinated network between of Decuria of
Interpreters, our central magistrates, our webmasters, and overall
our governors, specially in non-English speaking provinces.
Individual appointments, specially when the concerned governor has
not been previously consulted, will not solve the problem and may de-
motivate good wills. Our Interprets' list - but do we have one ? -
has been thus built by fits and starts, leaving aside, for example,
the fact that all the governors of non-English speaking provinces
should, ex officio, be interpreters (for they would not be governors
if not able to translate from their language to English and
reciprocally). When we remind that Interpreters get century points,
we see that we must re-build a coherent and transparent system.
Though my heart wishes to support Hon. Petronius, who is my fellow
Gaul and whose citizenship honors Gallia and our republic, my reason
reminds me considering the interests of the whole republic: abstineo.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Uti Rogas.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.Abstain.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Uti rogas.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.Vti rogas I vote to appoint C. Petronius
Dexter as interpreter for French.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.YES.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; I like Dexter's
work ethic and manner of presenting himself.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.YES. While I do not know this individual
personnally, I rely upon Consul Sabinus for his reommendation.
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.Yes.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.UTI ROGAS.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Uti rogas.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Assentior; uti rogas. I think he will
make a fine addition to this group.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.VTI ROGAS.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Abstineo.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Uti Rogas.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Uti Rogas.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
---------------------------------------------------

Item VII: Denarius proposal. The Senate is call to decide about
production of Nova Roma "Concordia" denarius.

UTI ROGAS 21.
ABSTINEO 4.
ANTIQUO 7.
Item passed.

Comments:
[TIS] Titus Iulius Sabinus. Uti rogas.
[PMA] Publius Memmius Albucius. UTI ROGAS, reminding that the Senate
must vote in a second time the budgetary application of such a
decision.
[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.Antiquo.
[AMM] Annia Minucia Marcella.Uti rogas.
[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas.Vti rogas.
[MIS] Marcus Iulius Severus.VTI ROGAS.
[MCC] Marcus Curiatius Complutensis.Abstineo.
[KFBQ] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.Uti rogas.
[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus.No.It has not been a year of
Concordia.
[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.Antiquo.
[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus.Vti rogas.
[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus.Vti rogas I vote to approve the
production of Nova Roma "Concordia" denarius as proposed.
[MLA] Marcus Lucretius Agricola.ABSTAIN.
[EIL] Equestria Iunia Laeca.Uti rogas.
[KFBM] Kaeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.Uti Rogas.
[CFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus.Uti Rogas.
[SUVP] Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus.Ita; I shall further
support the effort by buying denarii.
[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens.NO. I have mentioned previously in the
Senate my thoughts that this year has not been particularly in
concert with "Concordia" no matter how many prayers are said to cover
up the expulsion of citizens who have given much to NR in the past.
[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.No.
[CCS] Gaius Curius Saturninus.Uti rogas.
[GIC] Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.ANTIQUO. Taking into account the comments
of Senator Audens and others, I change my vote on this item. It is
indeed exceptionally incongruent to officially sanction anything that
celebrates Concordia, this year of all years.
[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.Abstineo. I don't see the need
for another coin until we have sold the older ones. Also, there were
some points raised during the discussion that I would like to see
covered before going forth with this.
[ATS] Aula Tullia Scholastica.Assentior; uti rogas.
[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar.VTI ROGAS.
[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato.UTI ROGAS. I have wanted to see
a denaius for some time, and have discussed it in the Nova Roma coin
group in the past. It was always seen as being too much. Perhaps this
time it can be done. With two sestertii now, it is time for a
denarius.
[MHM] Marca Hortensia Maior.Uti rogas.
[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus.Abstineo.
[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica.Uti rogas.
[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus.Uti Rogas.
[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo.Antiquo.
[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior.Uti Rogas.
[MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.Uti rogas.
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