Thank you very much Maximus! That answered many of my questions and
makes the experiment easier on my hands. I hate the libraries near my
house. Their books are not helpful at all. Being an alumna, I was
thinking of going back to UCLA and seeing if I could find some
information in one or more of their 13 libraries. Perhaps there's
even a professor that could help? I will see.

L. Iunia Bruta

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2008 1:22:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> cases@... writes:
>
> Don't worry about knitting: it didn't exist in roman times, and
> neither did nalbinding, or at least one of the instruments to do
it
> would have been found. What existed is another technique that's
done
> by hand only, and of which I don't remember the name. Once I found
> the website of a woman who does that, but it's very time
consuming. I
> found it by perusing the Roman Army Talk forum, http://
> www.romanarmy.www.romanarmy.<WBR>com/. This ofrum has at least s
> posting and might prove useful.
>
>
>
>
> Romans did not knit. There was a linen band that went under the
breasts to
> support them, but the usual under garment was a linen loin cloth
> (subligariorum), though Cicero advises against men wearing them
while wearing a toga.
>
> Since women are wearing stolas or tunicas they don't have the same
problem
> as the men.
>
> The famous leather garments (the fascia pectoralis & subligar) on
the Ten
> Girls room in the Piazza Armerina Villa in Sicily are not typical
of Roman
> under garments. The owner or his wife was a Christian, and the
mosaic was dated
> to 4th century CE. The cover up may be because of a Christian
edict.
>
> One of Cassiodorus (490-573) comments quoted in Procopius is how
the Roman
> woman are no longer allowed to bathe naked thanks to some edict
from a Bishop.
> There is no date or edict ever found.
>
> Both Cicero, and Varro tells us that the women bathed naked during
the
> Republic. Women in fact often had their separate baths.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email,
and
> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-
dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos servent cum vester.

Hodie est ante diem III Eidus Decembris; haec dies Septimontium
nefastus principio est: AGONALIA INDIGETI


AGONIUM

Janus must be propitiated on the Agonal day.
The day may take its name from the girded priest
At whose blow the God's sacrifice is felled:
Always, before he stains the naked blade with hot blood,
He asks if he should, "agatne?" and won't unless commanded.
Some believe that the day is called Agonal because
The sheep do not come to the altar but are driven (agantur).
Others think the ancients called this festival Agnalia,
`Of the lambs', dropping a letter from its usual place.
Or because the victim fears the knife mirrored in the water,
The day might be so called from the creature's agony?
It may also be that the day has a Greek name
From the games (agones) that were held in former times.
And in ancient speech agonia meant a sheep,
And this last reason in my judgement is the truth.
Though the meaning is uncertain, Rex Sacrorum,
Must appease the Gods with the mate of a woolly ewe.
~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.318 ff.

While Ovid in his typical fashion offers us a few different
explanations, one that he does not mention is that the name Agonium
refers to a more ancient Latin term for sacrificial victim, rather
than "hostis." It may even be related, as Ovid indicates, to the
sacrificial ram. This sacrifice of a ram to Janus occurred at the
Regia (Varro, L. L. 6.12). Agonius is instead mentioned, but only by
Augustustine (Civ. Dei 4.11.16). His name is related to the
Quirinal, in as much as its traditional name was Collis Agonus, the
Colline Gate was called the "porta agonensis," and the Salii
Agonenses were another sodalitas of Salii priest, headquartered on
the Quirinal Hill. It may be that two sacrifices are indicated. The
one for Janus in the Regia by the Rex Sacrorum, while another
sacerdos, possibly the flamen Quirinalis (?) performs a sacrifice of
a more ancient kind to the deity of the Colline city.


SEPTIMONTIA

This festival only appears in later calendars. "The dies
Septimontium is named for the Seven Hills on which site is the City;
the festival is not pro populi, but instead pro montarrum, just as
the Paganalia is for pagans of the rural districts (Varro, L. L.
6.24)." The montes here are the three divisons of the Palatine hill,
being Palatium, Cermalus and Velia, the three divisions of the
Esquiline Hill, being the Fagutal, Mons Oppius, and Mons Cispius,
together with the low-lying Subura between the hills. The flamen
Palatualis performed the sacrifice on the Palatium, but to which
deity is uncertain. Pales or Palatua has been suggested.

Plutarch, Roman Questions 69:

"Why on the festival called Septimontium were they careful to refrain
from the use of horse-drawn vehicles; and why even to this day are
those who do not contemn ancient customs still careful about this?
The festival Septimontium they observe in commemoration of the
addition to the city of the seventh hill, by which Rome was made a
city of seven hills. Is it, as some of the Roman writers conceive,
because the city had not yet been completely joined together in all
its parts? Or has this 'nothing to do with Dionysus?' But did they
imagine, when their great task of consolidation had been
accomplished, that the city had now ceased from further extension;
and they rested themselves, and gave respite to the pack-animals,
which had helped them in their labors, and afforded the animals an
opportunity to enjoy the general festival with no work to do?
Or did they wish that the presence of the citizens should adorn and
honor every festival always, and, above all, that one which was held
in commemoration of the consolidation of the city? Wherefore in order
that they might not leave the City, in whose honor the festival was
being held, it was not permitted to make use of vehicles on that
day."


AUC 1114 / 361 CE Restoration of Religious Tolerance.

The Emperor Julian the Blessed restored Religious Tolerance, opening
the Temples to the Gods once more and renewing the culti Deorum. At
the same time he forbade harm to Christians.

"I affirm by the Gods that I do not wish the Galilaeans to be either
put to death or unjustly beaten, or to suffer any other injury; but
nevertheless I do assert absolutely that the god-fearing must be
preferred to them. For through the folly of the Galilaeans almost
everything has been overturned, whereas through the grace of the Gods
are we all preserved. Wherefore we ought to honor the Gods and the
god-fearing, both men and cities." ~ Julian the Bless, Letter to
Atarbius

At Jerusalem he also set out to restore the Temple of Israel, writing
in a letter to the Jews, "I too shall build and populate, by my
efforts, after I successfully conclude my war against the Persians,
the holy city of Jerusalem, which for many years you have yearned to
see settled by yourselves, and together with you I shall give glory
to the very great God (Ammianus Marcellinus, Res Gestae Libri XXXI)."


Today's thought is from Julian the Blessed

"The first thing we ought to preach is reverence toward the Gods. For
it is fitting that we should perform our service to the Gods as
though They were Themselves present with us and beheld us, and though
not seen by us could direct Their gaze, which is more powerful than
any light, even as far as our hidden thoughts."

Salve Iunia,
be careful, because Fabius Maximus' information is not all that
accurate.
Of course Romans bathed naked (the baths, like turkish baths, were
either separate by sex or opened in different hours for women and
men).

But the Piazza Armerina mosaics have nothing to do with bathing!
The "bikini girls" were participants and winners of sports contests
(in honour of one god that I don't remember, and the website is not
accessible at the moment), as you can well see in the mosaic, and
Romans did not do sports naked, like Greeks. Men would wear a
subligar, or subligaculum (a loincloth), and women, as documented in
Piazza Armerina, might have worn "bikinis".
Women's sports contests where quite common, and in Rome there was
even an yearly race for the daughters of senators.

I don't know why Fabius Maximus assumes the bikinis were made of
leather: I see no way to establish that from the mosaics.

Also, while there's no direct evidence that people went bathing in
the sea, I suspect nothing else could explain the popularity of
summer resorts like Pompeii and Stabiae, so I suppose bikinis might
have also be used for sea bathing and swimming, in public contexts
where men might have been present too.

About swimming itself, some sources will tell you that Romans
couldn't swim, or at least not in modern styles, but the bathhouse
mosaics in Ostia have very clear depictions of men swimming in
"crawl" style.

Vale,
Livia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you very much Maximus! That answered many of my questions and
> makes the experiment easier on my hands. I hate the libraries near
my
> house. Their books are not helpful at all. Being an alumna, I was
> thinking of going back to UCLA and seeing if I could find some
> information in one or more of their 13 libraries. Perhaps there's
> even a professor that could help? I will see.
>
> L. Iunia Bruta
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/10/2008 1:22:55 P.M. Pacific Standard
Time,
> > cases@ writes:
> >
> > Don't worry about knitting: it didn't exist in roman times, and
> > neither did nalbinding, or at least one of the instruments to do
> it
> > would have been found. What existed is another technique that's
> done
> > by hand only, and of which I don't remember the name. Once I
found
> > the website of a woman who does that, but it's very time
> consuming. I
> > found it by perusing the Roman Army Talk forum, http://
> > www.romanarmy.www.romanarmy.<WBR>com/. This ofrum has at least s
> > posting and might prove useful.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Romans did not knit. There was a linen band that went under the
> breasts to
> > support them, but the usual under garment was a linen loin cloth
> > (subligariorum), though Cicero advises against men wearing them
> while wearing a toga.
> >
> > Since women are wearing stolas or tunicas they don't have the
same
> problem
> > as the men.
> >
> > The famous leather garments (the fascia pectoralis & subligar)
on
> the Ten
> > Girls room in the Piazza Armerina Villa in Sicily are not typical
> of Roman
> > under garments. The owner or his wife was a Christian, and the
> mosaic was dated
> > to 4th century CE. The cover up may be because of a Christian
> edict.
> >
> > One of Cassiodorus (490-573) comments quoted in Procopius is how
> the Roman
> > woman are no longer allowed to bathe naked thanks to some edict
> from a Bishop.
> > There is no date or edict ever found.
> >
> > Both Cicero, and Varro tells us that the women bathed naked
during
> the
> > Republic. Women in fact often had their separate baths.
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> >
> > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email,
> and
> > favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-
> dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
> >
>

L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.

After exceptional rains yesterday and last night, most of Rome is now
flooded. The Tiberis is reaching critical levels, metro and trains
are blocked.

You can have a look at this video, and also at the other videos and
photos linked from the same page:
http://roma.repubblica.it/multimedia/home/4051507


I guess it's time for the pontifices, flamines and sacerdotes of Nova
Roma to try and do something about it by sacrificing to the gods
responsible.

Optime valete,
Livia

Consuli Moravio s.d.

Thanks for your words and wishes, and I hope sincerely that you will
stay at the disposal of our res publica, and both its civil ande
religious institutions, in order to go on working on the tracks that
you have opened this year.

Respectfully, vale bene Consul.



P. Memmius Albucius
pr. el.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...>
wrote:

>
> M. Moravius Piscinus, Cons. Pon. Max. Aug. Quiritibus, Tribunibus
> Plebis, Aedili Plebis, et suffectis omnibus salutem plurimam dicit:
>
> Gratulor, et optimam fortunam vos ex opto.
>
> My thanks and congratulations first go out to the Quirites who
> participated in this year's elections.
>
> Congratulations go next to our newly elected Plebeian officers who
> enter office today:
>
> Pontifex Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus as Aedilis
> Plebis, and as Tribuni Plebis my former colleague, the exceptional
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa, my colleague Pontifex Flavius Galerius
> Aurelianus, Legatus Tiberius Horatius Barbatus, Gaius Pompeius
> Marcellus, and cultor Veneri Appius Galerius Aurelianus.
>
> Congratulations to a most deserving Gaius Popillius Laenas, mild-
> mannered, capable and knowledable, and ever available to serve the
> interests of the Res Publica. He is an excellent choice to serve

as

> Censor.
>
> Congratulations, too, to Marcus Curiatius Complutensis and M.

Iulius

> Severus who I am proud to call colleagues and friends. They have
> made a good team together this year as Praetores and shall prove to
> be excellent colleagues in the coming year.
>
> Congratulations to Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, who has often stood by

as

> my mentor and teacher; a man for whom I have the greatest respect.
> And of course to mon ami Publius Memmius Albucius, thoughful,
> humorous, and ever loquatious.
>
> Congratulations to Gnaius Iulius Caesar on his election as Aedilis
> Curulis and on his adlection as Senator.
>
> Congratulations to all of the other newly elected magistrates
> suffecti. I regret that I am not familiar with all of you. From
> those I do know, I think we have many capable Quaestores for next
> year, beginning with Tribuna Lucia Livia Plauta whose company I
> enjoyed at this year's Conventus. I am of course familiar with
> Flamines Gaius Petronius Dexter and Quintus Valerius Poplicola, and

I

> have worked with Tribunus Titus Flavius Aquila in different areas.
> All I trust to serve well, and those whom I did not mention by

name,

> I know from reputation that they too will serve well. Of all the
> newly elected Quaestores I would like to single out Gaius Arminius
> Reccanellus who has served before as Tribunus and as Quaestor, as
> well as in many other roles in provincia Brasilia and in noster Res
> Publica Libera. He was a very worthy candidate and I am certain he
> shall serve as a most worthy magistrate. My best to him and to

little

> Gaius as well.
>
> Congratulations, too, to Titus Arminius Genialis, another

magistrate

> from Brasilia who has served in many roles and offices, including
> Quaestor. Likewise his colleague, the former Praetrix, Senatrix

Aula

> Tullia Scholastica who is well experienced and a good choice for

the

> office of Rogator.
>
> As we have seen this year, and in most past years, the office of
> Custos is given little attention and yet fills an important

position

> in our Res Public. This year's lone Custos, Stephanus Ullerius
> Venator Piperbarbus, I believe has set a example for the office,
> persevering with cool deliberation while under pressure that seems

to

> always attend our elections. For the coming year we shall have two
> Custodes, each equal to the task. Luci Salix Cicero, care amice,
> congratulations. Salix is one of my personal friends whom I have
> known for many years. His mild and patient demeanor, and his solid
> character are well suited to the office. And Marcus Lucretius
> Agrícola, I will gladly call friend and swear by the Gods that in

the

> most difficult situations he has been indispensible this year. A
> very big thank you, Agricola, for all the work you've done this

year

> and continue to do. And congratulations on your election as

Custos,

> as this shall be a much deserved vacation for you.
>
> For Diribitores we look for dependablity, integrity, honesty, and

the

> willingness to perform their duties under difficult conditions with
> little recognition. Senatrix Annia Minucia Marcella exemplfies

those

> qualities and much more. Legatus M. Octavius Corvus, sacerdos

Iovis,

> is quickly becoming a model Citizen. Marcus Valerius Traianus and

C.

> Terentius Varro have both been Citizens for many years and are now
> just beginning their public careers. It is a good combination we

have

> for next year Diribitores.
>
> Over all, I think we have received a very fine selection of

officers

> for next year. So congratulations, and thanks, to all Citizens of
> Nova Roma. May next year prove beneficial, prosperous and happy

for

> our Res Publica.
>
>
> Finally, as Consul Maior, I wish to extend special thanks on behalf
> of Nova Roma to this year's Custos and Diribitores.
>
> Gratias magnas Res Publica Populi Novi Romani, Quirites, vos agit,
> Custos Stephane Ulleri Venator Piperbarbe et Ditibitores Marce
> Martiani Lupe, Cai Aemili Crasse, Sexte Postumi Albe, et Gai Iuli
> Adventor.
>

Salve,
Never heard of this happening in history but I'm sure it did. I do
remember that one of Julius Caesar' projects was to build a caal to divert
the Tiber, and drain a swampy area as well as control flooding. Does anyone
else have knowledge of this?
Valete,
Gauis Pompeius Marcellus


On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:07:45 -0000
"Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...> wrote:

> L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
>
> After exceptional rains yesterday and last night, most of Rome is now
> flooded. The Tiberis is reaching critical levels, metro and trains
> are blocked.
>
> You can have a look at this video, and also at the other videos and
> photos linked from the same page:
> http://roma.repubblica.it/multimedia/home/4051507
>
>
> I guess it's time for the pontifices, flamines and sacerdotes of Nova
> Roma to try and do something about it by sacrificing to the gods
> responsible.
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

BB,
Warrior

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Salve!   See http://roma.freewebpages.org/roma-c4.htm --- On Thu, 12/11/08, James V Hooper <warrior44_us@...> wrote: From: James V Hooper <warrior44_us@...> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Rome under water To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 6:33 PM Salve, Never heard of this happening in history but I'm sure it did. I do remember that one of Julius Caesar' projects was to build a caal to divert the Tiber, and drain a swampy area as well as control flooding. Does anyone else have knowledge of this? Valete, Gauis Pompeius Marcellus On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:07:45 -0000 "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@freemail. hu> wrote: > L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D. > > After exceptional rains yesterday and last night, most of Rome is now > flooded. The Tiberis is reaching critical levels, metro and trains > are blocked. > > You can have a look at this video, and also at the other videos and > photos linked from the same page: > http://roma. repubblica. it/multimedia/ home/4051507 > > > I guess it's time for the pontifices, flamines and sacerdotes of Nova > Roma to try and do something about it by sacrificing to the gods > responsible. > > Optime valete, > Livia > BB, Warrior

In a message dated 12/11/2008 6:00:28 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cases@... writes:

Salve Iunia,
be careful, because Fabius Maximus' information is not all that
accurate.
Of course Romans bathed naked (the baths, like turkish baths, were
either separate by sex or opened in different hours for women and
men).

But the Piazza Armerina mosaics have nothing to do with bathing!
The "bikini girls" were participants and winners of sports contests
(in honour of one god that I don't remember, and the website is not
accessible at the moment), as you can well see in the mosaic, and
Romans did not do sports naked, like Greeks. Men would wear a
subligar, or subligaculum (a loincloth), and women, as documented in
Piazza Armerina, might have worn "bikinis".
Women's sports contests where quite common, and in Rome there was
even an yearly race for the daughters of senators.

 

And what does this have to do with underwear?  And Romans could exercise naked, they were not modest.

 

You said that these pieces were modeled after womens' under wear.  I said they were not. 

If women were competing in sports they would wear the tunica, which was the standard long tunic that came down to the mid thigh.  They would not wear leather bikinis.  The original mosaic was likely designed to be naked, and the Christians covered it.  As for what the Roman women wore in the communal baths in Christian era we don't know, but Ovidus mentions them as naked in the Early Principate.  Early Romans would laugh at the idea of getting clothes wet while bathing!

 

Q. Fabius Maximus       

C. Petronius C. Pompeio s.p.d.,

The emperor Trajan made a canal to control the Tiber, but on year 105
AD it was a big flooding with many days of famine.

Great floodings during Augustus principate:
27 BC (the Regia and the Vestae Aedes destroyed), 23 BC, Rome
navigable during three days, 22 BC, 13 BC, Balbus goes to his theatre
on boat ! 5 AD Rome navigable during one week...

O Iane pater, O Portune pater,
ambo propitii Romae estote !
Tiberis undas parcitote !
Iovis imbres placate.

Caelum serenum denuo siet.
Roma sub caelo sereno siet.

O Iane pater, O Jupiter Optime Maxime,
O Portune pater,Propitii Romae estote !

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter

Thank you Livia, thank you Maximus. I appreciate whatever information
anyone can give me. It seems that there's a lot of conjectures about
how people wore thier undergarments/bikinis and what they were made
out of. I hope that that we can come up with a lot of useful
information about this subject that we can share with others. I'm
really hoping that UCLA has more information. If I can crack into
their scholarly articles, I'm sure there's something there. I just
don't know if I can seeing as I graduated already.

Thanks!
L. Iunia Bruta soon to be known as Lucia Antonia Auriga
(Upon the kind help of my new friend Cornelius Lentulus who steered
me away from convention and made me the most best cognomen ever as
I'm a race car driver! Thank you!)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Livia Plauta" <cases@...>
wrote:

>
> Salve Iunia,
> be careful, because Fabius Maximus' information is not all that
> accurate.
> Of course Romans bathed naked (the baths, like turkish baths, were
> either separate by sex or opened in different hours for women and
> men).
>
> But the Piazza Armerina mosaics have nothing to do with bathing!
> The "bikini girls" were participants and winners of sports contests
> (in honour of one god that I don't remember, and the website is not
> accessible at the moment), as you can well see in the mosaic, and
> Romans did not do sports naked, like Greeks. Men would wear a
> subligar, or subligaculum (a loincloth), and women, as documented

in

> Piazza Armerina, might have worn "bikinis".
> Women's sports contests where quite common, and in Rome there was
> even an yearly race for the daughters of senators.
>
> I don't know why Fabius Maximus assumes the bikinis were made of
> leather: I see no way to establish that from the mosaics.
>
> Also, while there's no direct evidence that people went bathing in
> the sea, I suspect nothing else could explain the popularity of
> summer resorts like Pompeii and Stabiae, so I suppose bikinis might
> have also be used for sea bathing and swimming, in public contexts
> where men might have been present too.
>
> About swimming itself, some sources will tell you that Romans
> couldn't swim, or at least not in modern styles, but the bathhouse
> mosaics in Ostia have very clear depictions of men swimming in
> "crawl" style.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much Maximus! That answered many of my questions

and

> > makes the experiment easier on my hands. I hate the libraries

near

> my
> > house. Their books are not helpful at all. Being an alumna, I was
> > thinking of going back to UCLA and seeing if I could find some
> > information in one or more of their 13 libraries. Perhaps there's
> > even a professor that could help? I will see.
> >
> > L. Iunia Bruta
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/10/2008 1:22:55 P.M. Pacific Standard
> Time,
> > > cases@ writes:
> > >
> > > Don't worry about knitting: it didn't exist in roman times,

and

> > > neither did nalbinding, or at least one of the instruments to

do

> > it
> > > would have been found. What existed is another technique

that's

> > done
> > > by hand only, and of which I don't remember the name. Once I
> found
> > > the website of a woman who does that, but it's very time
> > consuming. I
> > > found it by perusing the Roman Army Talk forum, http://
> > > www.romanarmy.www.romanarmy.<WBR>com/. This ofrum has at least

s

> > > posting and might prove useful.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Romans did not knit. There was a linen band that went under

the

> > breasts to
> > > support them, but the usual under garment was a linen loin

cloth

> > > (subligariorum), though Cicero advises against men wearing them
> > while wearing a toga.
> > >
> > > Since women are wearing stolas or tunicas they don't have the
> same
> > problem
> > > as the men.
> > >
> > > The famous leather garments (the fascia pectoralis & subligar)
> on
> > the Ten
> > > Girls room in the Piazza Armerina Villa in Sicily are not

typical

> > of Roman
> > > under garments. The owner or his wife was a Christian, and

the

> > mosaic was dated
> > > to 4th century CE. The cover up may be because of a Christian
> > edict.
> > >
> > > One of Cassiodorus (490-573) comments quoted in Procopius is

how

> > the Roman
> > > woman are no longer allowed to bathe naked thanks to some edict
> > from a Bishop.
> > > There is no date or edict ever found.
> > >
> > > Both Cicero, and Varro tells us that the women bathed naked
> during
> > the
> > > Republic. Women in fact often had their separate baths.
> > >
> > > Q. Fabius Maximus
> > >
> > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends,

email,

> > and
> > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
> > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-
> > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
> > >
> >
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Deus Consus vos porrigat.

Hodie est die pristini Eidus Decembris; haec dies endotercisus est:
feriae Conso in Aventino sacrificium. Equi et muli floribus
coronantur quod in eius tutula sunt itaque rex equo vectus

Vindolanda's Portable Roman Calendar

This past July a unique discovery took place along Hadrian's Wall at
Vindolanda. This was the discovery of a piece of a portable, metal,
perpetual calendar used by the Roman army. It is the first of its
kind discovered, and only the third portable calendar found thus
far. The others were a Roman's bronze menologium, or register of
months, found in 1886 at Grand, France, and a Celtic bronze tablet
discovered in 1897 at Coligny, France. The Vindolanda example is a
curved piece showing the month of September, presumably from a
circular or semi-circle calendar. The days were counted by placing a
peg in one of the holes every other day. That is, only the odd-
numbered days were recorded, possibly as these were considered the
fortunate days. An article on the find, with photos, can be found at
http://www.dorset-archaeology.org.uk/newsletters/2008-10.pdf and also
in the Jan/Feb 2009 issue of Archaeology magazine.


The Festival of Consus and Endotercisus Days

Eight days in the calendar year are noted as endotercisus (cut into
parts), today being one, and all of them coming on the day before a
festival or the Ides. "The intercisi dies are those on which legal
business is nefas in the morning hours (mane) and in the evening
hours (vesperi), but are fastus between the slaying of the
sacrificial victim and the offering of the vital organs, as they are
stretched over the altars. (Varro, L. L. 6.31)." The significance
here on 12 December is not particularly known, but some idea may be
offered.

"At the festival of the Vinalia, the flamen Dialis makes an official
commencement of the vintage, and when he has given orders to gather
the grapes, he sacrifices a lamb to Jupiter, and between the cutting
out of the victim's vital organs and offering them up to the God he
himself first plucks a bunch of grapes (Varro, L. L. 6.16)."

In the same fashion, at other festivals, the characteristic action
like harvesting a bunch of grapes at Vinalia or, at other Latin and
Sabine cities, the special priests called Semones ritually sowing the
fields, were performed during the sacrifice, as part of the
sacremental ritual. For the Consualia of December alone there is a
special annotation in the fasti Praeneste of which Mommsen's
reconstruction is given above (CIL 237). Horses and mules were
crowned in wreathes of flowers, and the Rex conveyed through the City
on horseback. It is known from Dionysus and Festus that horse races
and races of mules were held on this day (Dion. 2.3 ff; Festus p.
148).

The reference to the sacrifice being on the Aventine would actually
signify the Circus Maximus beneath the Aventine Hill. The altar of
Consus was located in an underground chamber beneath the Circus
Maximus. It was surrounded, in a later period, by images of His
indigitementa: Seia for sown seeds of grain in the ground; Segetia
for the grain as it ripens above ground; Messor as the grain is
reaped, and then Tutilina for grain as it is stored.

The sacrifice was performed by the flamen Quirinalis in the presence
of the Vestales Virgines, down in this chamber within the Circus
Maximus. That is, the sacrifice was begun in the morning. The races
were then carried out before the sacrifice was completed. A question
remains as to whether the reference to a Rex is intended to mean the
winner of the horse races, or perhaps the Rex Sacrorum, although
there is no indication that either would be found here. The flamen
Quirinalis is found at another rite later in December when he stands
in for Romulus in performing a parentatio for Rhea Silvia. There is,
of course, the close association of Romulus with the Consualia of
August, at which festival occurred the rape of the Sabine women.
Generally this legend is connected with the Consualia of August
rather than either of the two festivals of Consus in December.
However, Romulus and later kings probably conducted these rites
rather than any of the flamines, and thus there is still some
remembrance of this earlier time in the fasti Praeneste, even as late
as this annotation is.


Our thought for today is from Stobaeus, Ethical Sentences 17:

"Neither is it possible to conceal fire in a garment, nor, in time, a
base deviation from rectitude."


Our thought for today is from Epictetus, Enchiridion 46:

"Never proclaim yourself a philosopher; nor make much talk among the
ignorant about your principles, but show them by actions. Thus, at an
entertainment, do not discourse how people ought to eat; but eat as
you ought. For remember that thus Socrates also universally avoided
all ostentation. And when persons came to him, and desired to be
introduced by him to philosophers, he took them and introduced them;
so well did he bear being overlooked. So if ever there should be
among the ignorant any discussion of principles, be for the most part
silent. For there is great danger in hastily throwing out what is
undigested. And if any one tells you that you know nothing, and you
are not nettled at it, then you may be sure that you have really
entered on your work. For sheep do not hastily throw up the grass, to
show the shepherds how much they have eaten; but, inwardly digesting
their food, they produce it outwardly in wool and milk. Thus,
therefore, do you not make an exhibition before the ignorant of your
principles; but of the actions to which their digestion gives rise."

Horae noctis :

 

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Veneris hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Mercurii hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Lunae hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Saturni hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Iovis hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Martis hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:14 Solis hora.
VIII: 01:14 - 02:29 Veneris hora.
IX: 02:29 - 03:44 Mercurii hora.
X: 03:44 - 04:59 Lunae hora.
XI: 04:59 - 06:14 Saturni hora.
XII: 06:14 - 07:29 Iovis hora.

 

Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.

Salve Q. Fabi Maxime,

>
> And what does this have to do with underwear? And Romans could

exercise

> naked, they were not modest.
>

While the could, they didn't. There are plenty of sourges about this.

> You said that these pieces were modeled after womens' under wear.

I said

> they were not.

Who said that what pieces were modeled after women's underwear?

> If women were competing in sports they would wear the tunica, which

was the

> standard long tunic that came down to the mid thigh.

While it's possible, there's no evidence of this. Possibly they would
wear tunics or bikinis, according to the season.


They would not wear

> leather bikinis.

Again, why do you assome the bikinis were leather? From the mosaics
there's no way to assume that.

The only evidence of leather underwear is men's briefs that have been
found in Vindolanda.


The original mosaic was likely designed to be naked, and the

> Christians covered it.

The website of the Piazza Armerina villa (http://
www.villaromanadelcasale.net/) has been redesigned, and now the
mosaic photos are substituted by Flash animations that none of my
browsers will read, but enough of the website is still readable to
see that the villa included a sanctuary for Ceres and Proserpina.
(Now that I think of it I suppose the girls were competing in games
in honour of Proserpina).
There's no evidence at all to suggest that the owner was christian,
or that mosaics were tampered with later by Christians.
There is no evicence at all nowhere of mosaics that have been
tampered with by Christians the way you suggest. Painting fig leaves
over nudes was a practice that started in the 17th century.
In the middle ages Christians would deface statues and paintings by
poking out their eyes or decapitating them.


As for what the Roman women wore in the communal baths

> in Christian era we don't know, but Ovidus mentions them as naked

in the

> Early Principate. Early Romans would laugh at the idea of getting

clothes wet

> while bathing!
>

Logically enough, people continued to bathe naked all along the early
Middle Ages. That's the main reason why the Church made all those
crusades against bathing.


Optime vale,
Livia

Ugh people, let's define our terms.
Does "Roman" mean Romulas to Constantine XI ?
Does it mean the republic ending in 27BCE ?

Knitting is found in the Roman Empire ruins in Dura_Europas. I can
cunsult my copy of the Final Dig Report for Textiles and give the ID
#'s if you like.

I know that Knitting, Sprang and Nalbinding were found in 4th, 5th
and 6th century Situations in Egypt. These items were made and used
by people that described themselves as Roman.


My research into clothing of the 1st cent BCE/1st cent CE is just
starting but I would hesitate to rule out these techniques completly.
Since stainless steel wasn't developed, knitting and nalbinding
needles would have been wood or bone; they may not have survived.
Also, the men excavating the Roman sites may not have recognised them
for what they are and they could be sitting , mislabeled, in a drawer
somewhere.
When the Antioch exhibit toured a few years ago the was a photo of
One of the drawers of unaccesioned, unidentified small objects from
the origanl dig in the 30's (if I remember correctly).

Let's keep an open mind about some of the alternative means of
clothing production.

Rufus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2008 1:22:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> cases@... writes:
>
> Don't worry about knitting: it didn't exist in roman times, and
> neither did nalbinding, or at least one of the instruments to do
it
> would have been found. What existed is another technique that's
done
> by hand only, and of which I don't remember the name. Once I found
> the website of a woman who does that, but it's very time
consuming. I
> found it by perusing the Roman Army Talk forum, http://
> www.romanarmy.www.romanarmy.<WBR>com/. This ofrum has at least s
> posting and might prove useful.
>
>
>
>
> Romans did not knit. There was a linen band that went under the
breasts to
> support them, but the usual under garment was a linen loin cloth
> (subligariorum), though Cicero advises against men wearing them
while wearing a toga.
>
> Since women are wearing stolas or tunicas they don't have the same
problem
> as the men.
>
> The famous leather garments (the fascia pectoralis & subligar) on
the Ten
> Girls room in the Piazza Armerina Villa in Sicily are not typical
of Roman
> under garments. The owner or his wife was a Christian, and the
mosaic was dated
> to 4th century CE. The cover up may be because of a Christian
edict.
>
> One of Cassiodorus (490-573) comments quoted in Procopius is how
the Roman
> woman are no longer allowed to bathe naked thanks to some edict
from a Bishop.
> There is no date or edict ever found.
>
> Both Cicero, and Varro tells us that the women bathed naked during
the
> Republic. Women in fact often had their separate baths.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email,
and
> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-
dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
>

Salve Rufe,

>
> Ugh people, let's define our terms.
> Does "Roman" mean Romulas to Constantine XI ?
> Does it mean the republic ending in 27BCE ?
>

What we are most interested in is republican Rome.

> Knitting is found in the Roman Empire ruins in Dura_Europas. I can
> cunsult my copy of the Final Dig Report for Textiles and give the

ID

> #'s if you like.
>

Please, do!

> I know that Knitting, Sprang and Nalbinding were found in 4th, 5th
> and 6th century Situations in Egypt. These items were made and used
> by people that described themselves as Roman.
>

All of those in all the centuries you mentioned? What you mention are
usually referred to as Coptic textiles. I've seen an exhibition with
a good selection of those, but only woven textiles were displayed.
Textile archaeologists draw a lot on these examples, but they always
warn that there's not evidence that the techniques used in coptic
Egipt were exactly the same as those used earlier and in other
regions.

Hopefully early next year I'll be able to visit a huge exhibition of
Herculaneum finds in Naples, which for the first time displays all
the textiles. These will be much more relevant for the region and
time frame we are iterested in.

If anyone can, it's a good idea to plan a trip to Naples, because the
exhibition has also an incredible number of beautiful bronze
sculptures, and it's only open until April.

>
> My research into clothing of the 1st cent BCE/1st cent CE is just
> starting but I would hesitate to rule out these techniques

completly.

If they were used they were not commonly used (except sprang), so
they can be ruled out for practical purposes.

> Since stainless steel wasn't developed, knitting and nalbinding
> needles would have been wood or bone; they may not have survived.
> Also, the men excavating the Roman sites may not have recognised

them

> for what they are and they could be sitting , mislabeled, in a

drawer

> somewhere.

Needles would have been BRONZE, wood or bone. In Egypt, wood and bone
artifacts have survived with no problems.
Knitting needles would be very hard to recognize, but a nalbinding
needle would be hard to mistake for something else.

Anyway, I'll be prepared to take your hypotheses into account when
you show me a literary source about old ladies knitting by the
fireplace, or a greek vase showing a woman nalbinding.
Unfortunately there are none of those, so far, versus the huge number
of references to weaving and depictions of it on vases and paintings.

Face it: any technique other than weaving was possible, but
irrelevant.

Optime vale,
Livia

L. Livia C. Petronio sal.

Thanks for your prayer! Let's hope it will be useful! The critical
time for Tiber level will be today between 20:00 and midnight.

Between October 28 and today almost as much rain has fallen in Rome
(400,7 mm.) as in the whole year 2007 (443,6 mm.).
What's weird is that the same is happening all over Italy, and
apparently in other parts of the world too (someone mentioned a place
in Brazil where some of our citizens live).

Optime vale,
Livia

>
> C. Petronius C. Pompeio s.p.d.,
>
> The emperor Trajan made a canal to control the Tiber, but on year

105

> AD it was a big flooding with many days of famine.
>
> Great floodings during Augustus principate:
> 27 BC (the Regia and the Vestae Aedes destroyed), 23 BC, Rome
> navigable during three days, 22 BC, 13 BC, Balbus goes to his

theatre

> on boat ! 5 AD Rome navigable during one week...
>
> O Iane pater, O Portune pater,
> ambo propitii Romae estote !
> Tiberis undas parcitote !
> Iovis imbres placate.
>
> Caelum serenum denuo siet.
> Roma sub caelo sereno siet.
>
> O Iane pater, O Jupiter Optime Maxime,
> O Portune pater,Propitii Romae estote !
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

Salvéte,

 

Thank you Livia for keeping us updated and so far those I know in Italia are well. I have watched a few clips sent to me by a dear friend who lives in Rome and they had quite a visual impact.

 

Dexter, beautiful prayer as always. I have saved it for future reference; I do hope this is ok.

 

These floods combined with other facts give me cause to ponder that the gods themselves have urged the sacred waters to cleanse or purge a mal condition.  The sacred river is scheduled to rise further in Roma coinciding with the rise of the full moon. Prayers to Iuppiter, Father Tiber (Tiberinus) etc. to stop the flooding should be supplemented by prayers to the gods to also protect Roma's citizens and their possessions while this cleansing takes place.

These scourges of the Tiber are recorded from antiquity, with the worst (recorded) on Dies Natalis 1598 as a result of  a hurricane speed wind (Sirocco)from the Mediterranean, and for those who know their history, that was a time of great pollution.

Today the holy waters of the Tiber need purification from the pollution due to the utter disregard many in today's society have for this sacred element (and the others); in order to remain sacred the flood will remove the evil influences from them. Prayers may also be offered to the numina of this sacred water. In addition to our appointed Priests' guidance, offering sacrifices and evocations, every citizen should attend to prayers in their private lararium in the interest of the citizens of our fatherland.

 

Tomorrow is Telluri, for our ancient Terra Mater, and with the Flood and all it signifies on my mind my sacrifice and prayers will have deep significance for the world I live in, for those I love and cherish, for my friends and for my fellow citizens.

"Let Tellus, fertile in fruits and herds, present Ceres with a crown of wheat stalks; let the healthy waters and breezes of Jupiter nourish the offspring." - Horace, Carm. Saec. 29- 32

 

Cúráte ut valeátis optimé,

 

Julia Aquila

And yours are very good thoughts. Please continue to share them with us.   Maxima Valeria Messallina Sacerdos Vestalis --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote: From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] What are we? To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:39 PM Salus et fortuna omnes; I know that the elections are still undecided as yet...but the strength of the Res Publica is in the People, not the officials. I have been a Cives Nova Romana since Quinctilis (July) MMDCCLI AUC so, I've seen all but the very beginning (only 77 men and women signed on before me). Our Res Publica IS, in some ways, a world spanning nation; just look at the number of time zones we cover. Our actual, taxpaying population, comprises a healthy group of state (USA) or provincial size. Our ambitions SHOULD be as big as the future is long. Our expectations should be as large as we are. Just a thought or two... ============ ========= ==== In amicitia quod fides - Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Senator et Custos Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/ http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/ http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/ http://piparskeggrs kald.podbean. com/ http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/ http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range -- May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts. May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval. May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

In a message dated 12/12/2008 2:52:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, drivergirl@... writes:

I just
don't know if I can seeing as I graduated already.

Of course you can.  You can get an alumni library card.

 

We don't have a lot on Roman undergarments at UCLA.  Of course I was interested in mostly Ancient military history and the Religio during my stay there.  There was a Roman clothing project at USD, AIR, in the '90s but I have no idea where that info would be.  When we were shooting  History Channel Roman dramatization we got most of our Roman clothing from Western Costume on Van Owen in Burbank.  Western has supplied Roman props for productions from the '60s.  Some of their stuff is good, other just terrible.  It helps to know what you are looking for when you get into their warehouse.  The Roman section alone takes up about 6, 50 foot rows.

 

Q. Fabius Maximus  

In a message dated 12/12/2008 9:04:50 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, barak@... writes:

Ugh people, let's define our terms.
Does "Roman" mean Romulas to Constantine XI ?
Does it mean the republic ending in 27BCE ?

Knitting is found in the Roman Empire ruins in Dura_Europas. I can
cunsult my copy of the Final Dig Report for Textiles and give the ID
#'s if you like.

I'm sorry.  I refer to Roman as things started or brought from Italia.  Knitting is an Egyptian import, it is not Roman.  Dura Europas was occupied by the Parthians, Palmyrenes, Sassanid Persians, and Arabs.  So finding clothes knitted, does not make it Roman.

 

The Republic ends at the Battle of Philippi, November 42 bce.

 

Q. Fabius Maximus  

Horae noctis :

 

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Saturni hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Iovis hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Martis hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Solis hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Veneris hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Mercurii hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:14 Lunae hora.
VIII: 01:14 - 02:29 Saturni hora.
IX: 02:29 - 03:44 Iovis hora.
X: 03:44 - 04:59 Martis hora.
XI: 04:59 - 06:14 Solis hora.
XII: 06:14 - 07:29 Veneris hora.

 

Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Bona vos Tellus Ceresque aucent ope

Hodie est Idae Decembrae; haec dies nefastus principio est: Telluri
lecisternium Cereri in Carinis; Sementivae Telluris.

Today is the birthday of our Rogator Lucius Rutilius Minervalis.
Felices natalis! Di Deaeque omnes dent tibi quae velis


To Tellus and Ceres

O Mothers of Fruitfulness, Tellus and Ceres, please,
With salted spelt cakes offered for Your mother's woe,
In kind service have Tellus and Ceres nurtured wheat,
She who gave grain life, She who gave us room to grow.

Pray then before the sheep are shorn their winter's fleece.

Consorts in labour who antiquity reformed,
Oaken acorn have You replaced by useful meal,
With boundless crops satisfy those who fields farmed,
O that they may by their tillage their reward seal.

May You grant tender seed abundant increase.

Let not icy cold enwrap our new shoots with snow,
While we sow let cloudless skies and fair winds blow.

When the seed lies sprouting, sprinkle with gentle rains,
May You ward off the feasting by birds from our grains.

You also, little ants, spare the grain we have sown,
More abundant will be your harvest when 'tis grown.
Meanwhile may our grain not blight by rough mildew,
Nor foul weather our seed blanch to a sickly hue.

Never may our grain be shriveled nor may it swell,
Without eye-stinging cockle, not by wild oats held.

Crops of wheat, of barley, of spelt grow on the farm,
Look now, Good Mothers, guard well the field,
The seasons change, the earth by Your breath grows warm,
With Your gentle touch may You increase our yield.

By Peace Ceres nursed, Her foster-child live in peace.

~ Ovid Fasti I.671-704


AUC 485 / 268 BCE: P. Sempronius Sophus dedicated a Temple to Tellus
in Carina.

On the Ides of December Rome held a lecisternium for Ceres carrying
an image of Her from Her temple on the Aventine to the temple of
Tellus in the district of Carina. An image of Tellus was likewise
drawn from Her temple. Both were placed side by side on a couch
before the doors of the aedes of Tellus, as though Ceres had come to
visit Her mother. In front of Their couch was set a table to
receive offerings. It was at such rare lecisternia that the general
populace were allowed to approach the Goddesses in awe. There are
only three festivals known where Tellus and Ceres were offered
sacrifices together. Besides the Ides of December, the other
festivals were the Paganalia of late January and the Fordicia of
April. The lecisternium of Tellus and Ceres is found at Praeneste,
from which comes a sculpture showing the Goddesses side by side on a
litter. This rite, and the dedication of a temple for Tellus on this
date at Rome, may relate to an earlier rustic ritual of no fixed
date. This was the Sementivae Telluris. Special priests called
Semones, found in the Sabine territory and in certain Latin towns,
ritually sowed grain at this time of year to ensure an abundant
harvest for the community. In the same way that Pliny relates a
farmer sowing rabbia, the Semones probably said a prayer similar
to "Hoc farrem mihi vico sereo." "I sow this grain for me and for my
neighbors (Plinius Secundus, Hist. Nat. 24.116)." It is probable
that at Praeneste the images of the Goddesses were carried out to the
fields for this ritual sowing. But by the time we hear of it, at
Rome, it had become a urban cultus.


AUC 354 / 399 BCE: The First Lectisternium

"Whether on account of the intemperate weather, or by the sudden
change from cold to heat, or by some other cause, the severe winter
was followed by a pestilence in summer, which proved fatal to men and
animals alike. As neither a cause nor a cure could be found for what
had come upon the city, the Senate ordered the Sibylline Books to be
consulted. The Duumviri priests who had charge of the oracles found
that a lectisternium should be performed for the first time in Rome.
For eight days Apollo and Latona, Diana and Hercules, Mercury and
Neptune were propitiated on three couches decked with the most
magnificent coverlets that could be obtained. Sacred celebrations
were also conducted in private houses. It is stated that throughout
the city the front gates of private houses were thrown open and
hospitality extended to all visitors, whether acquaintances or
strangers and men who had been enemies instead held friendly and
sociable conversations with each other and abstained from all
litigation. Even prisoners were allowed free during this period, and
it seemed afterwards as though an act of impiety that they should be
placed in chains once more." ~ Titus Livius 5.13.4-8

AUC 563 / 190 BCE: Founding of Romana Bononia (Bologna)

"On December 13th of this year the colony of Bononia was founded in
pursuance of a senatorial decree, the three commissioners being L.
Valerius Flaccus, M. Atilius Serranus and L. Valerius Tappo. The
colonists numbered 3000; the equites received each seventy jugera,
the other settlers fifty. The land had been taken from the Boii who
had themselves formerly expelled the Etruscans from it." ~ Titus
Livius 37.57


Our thought for today comes from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.11.2:

"But in truth They do exist, and They do care for human concerns, and
They have put all the means in man's power to enable him not to fall
into real evils."

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, sacerdos Pannoniae,
quaestor, legatus pro praetore: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis
plebis, senatui populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus: salutem plurimam:


Salvete, Quirites!

May the Divine Harmony shine upon you all brightly!



IT IS DONE.

I fulfilled my vow about this Sacred Anniversary Year of the Nova Roman Decennalia, as I promised on the last 12th December; it was exactly one year plus a day ago:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/53489

I vowed to pray and sacrifice to Concordia one every Kalends and Ides of the Sacred Year of 10th Anniversary. I followed my vow and I prayed to Concordia constantly on every Kalends and Ides.

Now I arrived to the last Ides of this year, so this is the last regular sacrifice of the 24 Ides and Kalends ceremonies that had started on this 1st January as the Opening Ceremony of the Sacred Year:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/54503

Besides the regular Kalends and Ides ceremonies, I conducted ceremonies on the two holidays of the Concordia Temples, and many, many public sacrifices throughout the whole year, in Pannnonia (Hungary), Dacia (Romania) and Bulgaria, among them the Herculanensia 10th Anniversary Holiday at the VI Conventus Novae Romae.

The most important of these, however, and one that I want to remain as an eternal Nova Roman holiday, was the Concordialia on the 1st of March, the Foundation Day of Nova Roma, decreted by the Senate to be an official holiday of Nova Roma.


SODALITAS CONCORDIALIS

I founded the Sodalitas Concordiae on the 1st of March, that will have the duty to continue my efforts to please Dea Concordia and make her to save us from flamewars, hate, discord, and allow us to be friends and comrades fighting for the same cause. The Sodalitas Concordiae, after the sacred Anniversary Year, will continue this mission making an emphasis on Concordia as a patron deity of Nova Roma, as a virtuous standard of behaviour and as the only way that can give unity, strength and cooperative development for our beloved republic.

Any citizen of Nova Roma who wish to be involved into a group that celebrates civil discussion, peace, openness, inclusiveness, friendship and concord, can join the Sodalitas Concordiae here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Concordia/


LAST REGULAR SACRIFICE AND CLOSING THE SACRED YEAR ON 31TH DECEMBER

The end of Concordia's Sacred Year is here, very soon, and this has been the last Idus. This my last regular Kalends and Ides sacrifice about our Tenth Anniversary. Nova Roma has been 10 years old: the last thing that remains to me is to celebrate the closing of the Tenth Anniversary Sacred year of concordia at the last day of this year.

Until that, this year is still 2761 AUC: the year of Goddess Concordance.

This ritual, like the previous one, is focused on the concordance and peace between cultores deorum and Christians. This is a conflict within Nova Roma that should end and be converted into peace and mutual understanding as soon as possible in order to achieve a real and sincere pax deorum.

This has been the ritual for the Ides of December.

Please, citizens of Nova Roma, concentrate now your prayers on the creative cooperation of the citizenry and successful development of Nova Roma!

Help me with your prayers to make more effective my sacrifice!

PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS!

I especially ask our Magistrates and Senators: send me your prayers to
Concordia and I will allocate them in the Virtual Temple of Concordia of the Nova Roman People:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29

Visit the Virtual Temple of Concordia and leave a personal, public prayer!

PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS!

Today's sacrifice has been done before my home altar. I have worshiped
Concordia for the unity, peace, strengthen and harmony of the New Roman People and I have given Her wine and incense.
The ritual has been this:


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SACRIFICIUM CONCORDIAE IDIBUS DECEMBRIBUS ANNIVERSARII SACRI X NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE



Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

PRAEFATIO

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
spes et victoria nostra sempiterna atque aeterna,
hisce Idibus Decembribus anniversarii decimi
annique undecimi Novae Romae conditae,
te precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
uti Christianos Novos Romanos et cultores deorum maiorum antiquorum
in pace amicitiaque et fraternitate coniungas,
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno undecimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis, uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
hoc libo libando,
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
hoc anno anniversarii decimi Novae Romae conditae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Christianis Novis Romanis et cultoribus deorum maiorum antiquorum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Libum is sacrificed, libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

REDDITIO

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Dea caritatis et amicitiae et fraternitatis,
uti te ture commovendo
et vino libando
bonas preces precatus sum,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

PIACULUM

Iane,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine is made.)


VALETE SEMPER IN CONCORDIA!

VIVAT NOVA ROMA!

VIVAT NOVA ROMA ANNORUM X!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini
Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii
Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
-------------------------------------------
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae
Latinista, Classicus Philologus

Cn. Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordialis omnibus Quiritibus s. p. d. I officially thank all citizens and foreigners who have sent their personal public prayers to Concordia for the cooperative and creative develepment and growth of the Nova Roman people and republic. Thank you very much and may Concordia bless you: Cn. Equitius Marinus Censorius rogator, senator (two prayers) M. Hortensia Maior quaestrix, senatrix, flaminica L. Vitellius Triarius quaestor T. Popillia Laenas Pannonica Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus senator M. Valerius Traianus Rebecca Melendez (peregrina) C. Tullius Structus M. Iulius Severus praetor, senator C. Pompeius Marcellus C. Marius Basilius Gerard Dempsey (peregrinus) M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus consul, pontifex maximus, flamen, augur, senator Annia Minucia Marcella legata pro praetore, senatrix I invite you all to join the sodalitas of worshippers of Dea Concordia: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Concordia/ CITIZENS! ESPECIALLY PRIESTS, MAGISTRATES AND SENATORS! The Sacred 10th Anniversary Year is still ongoing, it is not finished until 31st December. You still have time to join the group of these illustrous citizens whom I've listed above and to send a prayer to the "Virtual Temple Of The Quiritial Nova Roman People's Concordia": http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_%28Nova_Roma%29 It is still time to join with your prayer and to add your name to the Virtual Temple's website. Nova Roma needs these prayers and we must please and placate Goddess Concordia in order to have a cooperative and peaceful society of strength, success and unity. Send your prayers to my e-mail address and I place them to the Virtual Temple, among the official ceremonies' texts and prayers of our most illustrous leaders and citizens. Help me with your prayers to make more effective my sacrifice! PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS! I especially ask our Magistrates and Senators: send me your prayers to Concordia and I will allocate them in the Virtual Temple of Concordia of the Nova Roman People: http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Aedes_ Concordiae_ Populi_Novi_ Romani_%28Nova_ Roma%29 Visit the Virtual Temple of Concordia and leave a personal, public prayer! PLEASE SEND YOUR PRAYERS TO MY E-MAIL ADDRESS! VALETE IN CONCORDIA BEATISSIMA! Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Q U A E S T O R P O N T I F E X SACERDOS CONCORDIAE ------------------------------------------ Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae Interpres Linguae Hungaricae Accensus Consulum T. Iulii Sabini et M. Moravii Piscini Scriba Praetorum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi Scriba Aedilis Curulis P. Memmii Albucii Scriba Rogatoris Cn. Equitii Marini Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae ------------------------------------------- Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis Dominus Factionis Russatae Latinista, Classicus Philologus

Salve,

Considering some of your thoughts, makes me wonder why we do not promote the aquisition of land, such as thst in Texas and wonder how many of us crave to be a true micro nation.Just a thought.

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:

> From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:24 PM
> And yours are very good thoughts. Please continue to share
> them with us.
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
>
> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salus et fortuna omnes;
>
> I know that the elections are still undecided as yet...but
> the
> strength of the Res Publica is in the People, not the
> officials.
>
> I have been a Cives Nova Romana since Quinctilis (July)
> MMDCCLI AUC
> so, I've seen all but the very beginning (only 77 men
> and women signed
> on before me).
>
> Our Res Publica IS, in some ways, a world spanning nation;
> just look
> at the number of time zones we cover.
>
> Our actual, taxpaying population, comprises a healthy group
> of state
> (USA) or provincial size.
>
> Our ambitions SHOULD be as big as the future is long.
>
> Our expectations should be as large as we are.
>
> Just a thought or two...
>
> ============ ========= ====
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Senator et Custos
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus
> http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
> http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
> http://piparskeggrs kald.podbean. com/
> http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Salve,

Considering some of your thoughts, makes me wonder why we do not promote the aquisition of land, such as thst in Texas and wonder how many of us crave to be a true micro nation.Just a thought.

Salve,
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
Tribune

--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:

> From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 10:24 PM
> And yours are very good thoughts. Please continue to share
> them with us.
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
>
> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salus et fortuna omnes;
>
> I know that the elections are still undecided as yet...but
> the
> strength of the Res Publica is in the People, not the
> officials.
>
> I have been a Cives Nova Romana since Quinctilis (July)
> MMDCCLI AUC
> so, I've seen all but the very beginning (only 77 men
> and women signed
> on before me).
>
> Our Res Publica IS, in some ways, a world spanning nation;
> just look
> at the number of time zones we cover.
>
> Our actual, taxpaying population, comprises a healthy group
> of state
> (USA) or provincial size.
>
> Our ambitions SHOULD be as big as the future is long.
>
> Our expectations should be as large as we are.
>
> Just a thought or two...
>
> ============ ========= ====
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Senator et Custos
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus
> http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
> http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
> http://piparskeggrs kald.podbean. com/
> http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Ap.Galerius Gnaeus Ahenobarbus S.P.D.,

Very well said sir.Perhaps you could suggest some ways we could come up with some concrete plans to do just that.

Vale,
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> wrote:

> From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:56 PM
> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.
>
> I am in the camp that dislikes the word
> "micronation" due to its connotations of a lack of
> seriousness. We are a corporation of people dedicated to
> restoring Roman values. If we had land, that land could be
> used for a center to do that, with temples, a
> "historical village", and even living quarters for
> those who wished to espouse those values through their lives
> whether part-time or full-time.
>
> Without at least one physical location like that, Nova
> Roma will remain a collection of mailing lists and people
> doing occasional events. If we have any hope of doing any
> more than that, we must become more focused and, yes, more
> serious. We should have land, regular religious rituals,
> classes for the general public, and many other things. This
> past year has seen Nova Roma and Novi Romani involved in
> some amazing events, and that is a great thing. Let us not
> lose the momentum that has been generated. Let us push
> forward with zeal and energy. Let us be Romans.
>
> Optime valete!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
> Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius
> Sabinus
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

Ap.Galerius Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus S.P.D.

Great ideas.I remember a time many years ago, when I had a piece of land.Five acres it was all forest.A number of clearings would have been ideal sites, for alters to different dieties.Buildings could have been buit as well, with the utmost privacy.Of course where to purchase would be raised.There are a few very active provinces here in America.

Anyway one idea might be to start a solidatis, for this express purpose and attach a paypal, for donations to begin with.I would really like to help develop this idea further and hope you will help.

Vale Omnes
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> wrote:

> From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 4:14 PM
> Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Ap. Galerio Aureliano omnibusque
> s.p.d.
>
>
> We must rent or buy land or another facility. Many
> things come to mind: a small church building in a city, a
> parcel of land just outside a city, or any number of other
> options. We could rent a small place and create a temple to
> the gods, similar to the way little Protestant Christian
> churches start up all the time. The land option, while
> giving us more freedom, may or may not be preferable. We
> could definitely do something with a little bit of land, say
> 5 to 10 acres. Such parcels are not hard to find, are not
> expensive, and can be bought via owner-financing in many
> cases. These things would take not only the physical aspects
> of money, time, and energy on the part of individual cives
> and the Republic, but may also involve abstract changes to
> how the organization itself functions so that such a
> physical property would be under the control of the
> appropriate parts of the organization.
> Nova Roma needs a full-time physical presence.
> That's pretty much all there is to it. Otherwise, we are
> an academic organization at best and a bunch of role
> players/fanatics/weirdos/Internet junkies at worst. I know
> we all want more than either of those things. We want Rome.
> Rome must be built.
>
> Optime vale, et valete!
>
> --
> Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
> Austroccidentalis
> Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius
> Sabinus
> http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:06:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
>
>
> Ap.Galerius Gnaeus Ahenobarbus S.P.D.,
>
> Very well said sir.Perhaps you could suggest some ways we
> could come up with some concrete plans to do just that.
>
> Vale,
> Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
>
> --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> <cn.caelius@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> > From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@yahoo.
> com>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we?
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:56 PM
> > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d.
> >
> > I am in the camp that dislikes the word
> > "micronation" due to its connotations of a
> lack of
> > seriousness. We are a corporation of people dedicated
> to
> > restoring Roman values. If we had land, that land
> could be
> > used for a center to do that, with temples, a
> > "historical village", and even living
> quarters for
> > those who wished to espouse those values through their
> lives
> > whether part-time or full-time.
> >
> > Without at least one physical location like that,
> Nova
> > Roma will remain a collection of mailing lists and
> people
> > doing occasional events. If we have any hope of doing
> any
> > more than that, we must become more focused and, yes,
> more
> > serious. We should have land, regular religious
> rituals,
> > classes for the general public, and many other things.
> This
> > past year has seen Nova Roma and Novi Romani involved
> in
> > some amazing events, and that is a great thing. Let us
> not
> > lose the momentum that has been generated. Let us push
> > forward with zeal and energy. Let us be Romans.
> >
> > Optime valete!
> >
> > --
> > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
> > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America
> > Austroccidentalis
> > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T.
> Iulius
> > Sabinus
> > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com

Avete Omnes;

I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00 before taxes) to
the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.

Can the other Cives do the same?

Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will support a land purchase anywhere.

=========================================
In amicitia quod fides -
Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
Senator et Custode
Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor

Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

M. Valerius Potitus Ap. Galerio Aureliano Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo SPD.

I totally agree with my amice, Caelius. Nova Roma needs local chapters
(oppida) and more face-to-face time.

I believe it should be the responsibility of all provincial governors
to establish oppida in their areas. Regular monthly meetings should be
held. New citizens should have to resources to contact and join these
oppida. All these things do not cost anything but time and initiative.

From these local chapters will come our future magistrates. The local
chapters will work out (in the real world) what it means to be a
Roman: the practice of the virtues (civic and personal), worship of
the Gods, auguries, Latin, the military, clothing, etc.

I think our goal for 2762 should be to have at least one
up-and-running oppidum in every province.

Valete.

Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Stefen Ullerius Venator Piperbus S.P.D.

Salve,

What a generous challenge you have set before us.I shall follow your lead as well and donate at the first of next month when I recieve my retirement.I am glad to see this string has become so productive.We must get the word out to all concerned in the respublica.You are a true Roman.

Vale,
For The Gods!
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

> From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Challenge
> To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:41 PM
> Avete Omnes;
>
> I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00
> before taxes) to
> the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.
>
> Can the other Cives do the same?
>
> Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will
> support a land purchase anywhere.
>
> =========================================
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Senator et Custode
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
> http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Horae noctis :

 

I: 16:39 - 17:52 Solis hora.
II: 17:52 - 19:06 Veneris hora.
III: 19:06 - 20:19 Mercurii hora.
IV: 20:19 - 21:33 Lunae hora.
V: 21:33 - 22:46 Saturni hora.
VI: 22:46 - 00:00 Iovis hora.
VII: 00:00 - 01:15 Martis hora.
VIII: 01:15 - 02:30 Solis hora.
IX: 02:30 - 03:45 Veneris hora.
X: 03:45 - 05:00 Mercurii hora.
XI: 05:00 - 06:15 Lunae hora.
XII: 06:15 - 07:30 Saturni hora.

 

Valete.
 
C. Petronius Dexter.

Q Caecilius Metellus SPQR salutem dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

With the Collegium Pontificum having finished its most recent session, I
announce the issuance of the Uisum Pontificum de Membrorum Terminis,
amendments to the composition of the Comitia Curiata, and one appointment. I
thank those members of the Collegium who presented their opinions on the
matters discussed, and I pray that these measures will bring us closer to
restoring the pax Deorum.

Ualete Bene,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex

====

=VISVM PONTIFICVM DE MEMBRORVM TERMINIS=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Pontifices Novae Romae, officiis nostris agendis per legem constitutiuam, ad
Senatum Consulesque designatos uidemus:

quin officia nostra agiamus, lex constitutiua Collegium inhibet, ut per pacem
deorum restituendam non potest Collegium de collegiorum membris et numeris
sacrorum decernere.

statum uisum, pontifices Senatui Consulibusque petamus statum corregendum.

=DECRETVM PONTIFICVM DE LICTORIBVS CVRIATIS=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Collegio Pontificum per legem constitutiuam designare lictores comitiorum
curiatorum potente, de lictoribus curiatis Collegium designat:

Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, Gaius Geminus Germanus,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Titus Labienus Fortunatus, Lucius Fabius
Metellus, Marcus Cornelius Felix, et Marcus Cassius Iulianus lictores ex
comitiis remouentur.

Titus Arminius Genialis, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus, Caius Curius Saturninus,
Paulla Corva Gaudialis, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus, Marca Hortensia
Maior, Lucia Livia Plauta, Annia Minucia Marcella, Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia,
Lucius Salix Cicero, Julilla Sempronia Magna, Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus, et Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa lictores ad comitia addiuntur.

=DECRETVM PONTIFICVM PONTIFICIS MINORIS DESIGNANDO=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Collegio Pontificum per prius decretum in toto pontifices minores tres
designare potente, Caius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus pontifex minor a
Collegio designatur.

==

=An Observation of the Pontiffs on the Limitations of Members=

The Pontiffs of Nova Roma, in executing our duties under the Constitution,
make the following observation to the Senate and the Consules designati:

From executing our duties, the Constitution inhibits the Collegium,
such that in restoring the pax Deorum the Collegium is not able to make
decisions regarding the members and numbers thereof of the sacred colleges.

With this situation observed, we pontifices ask of the Senate and the Consuls
for the correction of this situation.

=A Decree of the Pontiffs on the Curiate Lictors=

Whereas the Collegium Pontificum is empowered by the Constitution to designate
the lictors of the Comitia Curiata, regarding the lictores curiati the
Collegium designates thus:

Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, Gaius Geminus Germanus,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Titus Labienus Fortunatus, Lucius Fabius
Metellus, Marcus Cornelius Felix, and Marcus Cassius Iulianus are removed as
lictores from the comitia.

Titus Arminius Genialis, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus, Caius Curius Saturninus,
Paulla Corva Gaudialis, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus, Marca Hortensia
Maior, Lucia Livia Plauta, Annia Minucia Marcella, Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia,
Lucius Salix Cicero, Julilla Sempronia Magna, Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus, and Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa are added as lictores to the comitia.

=A Decree of the Pontiffs on the Designation of a Pontifex Minor=

Whereas the Collegium Pontificum is empowered by a previous decree to
designate a total of three pontiffs minor, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus is
designated by the Collegium as pontifex minor.

[My apologies for missing the subject line the first time around. Just
another sign that we're working to get things done quickly!]

Q Caecilius Metellus SPQR salutem dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

With the Collegium Pontificum having finished its most recent session, I
announce the issuance of the Uisum Pontificum de Membrorum Terminis,
amendments to the composition of the Comitia Curiata, and one appointment. I
thank those members of the Collegium who presented their opinions on the
matters discussed, and I pray that these measures will bring us closer to
restoring the pax Deorum.

Ualete Bene,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex

====

=VISVM PONTIFICVM DE MEMBRORVM TERMINIS=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Pontifices Novae Romae, officiis nostris agendis per legem constitutiuam, ad
Senatum Consulesque designatos uidemus:

quin officia nostra agiamus, lex constitutiua Collegium inhibet, ut per pacem
deorum restituendam non potest Collegium de collegiorum membris et numeris
sacrorum decernere.

statum uisum, pontifices Senatui Consulibusque petamus statum corregendum.

=DECRETVM PONTIFICVM DE LICTORIBVS CVRIATIS=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Collegio Pontificum per legem constitutiuam designare lictores comitiorum
curiatorum potente, de lictoribus curiatis Collegium designat:

Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, Gaius Geminus Germanus,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Titus Labienus Fortunatus, Lucius Fabius
Metellus, Marcus Cornelius Felix, et Marcus Cassius Iulianus lictores ex
comitiis remouentur.

Titus Arminius Genialis, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus, Caius Curius Saturninus,
Paulla Corva Gaudialis, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus, Marca Hortensia
Maior, Lucia Livia Plauta, Annia Minucia Marcella, Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia,
Lucius Salix Cicero, Julilla Sempronia Magna, Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus, et Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa lictores ad comitia addiuntur.

=DECRETVM PONTIFICVM PONTIFICIS MINORIS DESIGNANDO=

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVM SIT

Collegio Pontificum per prius decretum in toto pontifices minores tres
designare potente, Caius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus pontifex minor a
Collegio designatur.

==

=An Observation of the Pontiffs on the Limitations of Members=

The Pontiffs of Nova Roma, in executing our duties under the Constitution,
make the following observation to the Senate and the Consules designati:

From executing our duties, the Constitution inhibits the Collegium, such that
in restoring the pax Deorum the Collegium is not able to make decisions
regarding the members and numbers thereof of the sacred colleges.

With this situation observed, we pontifices ask of the Senate and the Consuls
for the correction of this situation.

=A Decree of the Pontiffs on the Curiate Lictors=

Whereas the Collegium Pontificum is empowered by the Constitution to designate
the lictors of the Comitia Curiata, regarding the lictores curiati the
Collegium designates thus:

Marcus Bianchius Antonius, Gnaeus Salvius Astur, Gaius Geminus Germanus,
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, Titus Labienus Fortunatus, Lucius Fabius
Metellus, Marcus Cornelius Felix, and Marcus Cassius Iulianus are removed as
lictores from the comitia.

Titus Arminius Genialis, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus, Caius Curius Saturninus,
Paulla Corva Gaudialis, Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus, Marca Hortensia
Maior, Lucia Livia Plauta, Annia Minucia Marcella, Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia,
Lucius Salix Cicero, Julilla Sempronia Magna, Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus, and Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa are added as lictores to the comitia.

=A Decree of the Pontiffs on the Designation of a Pontifex Minor=

Whereas the Collegium Pontificum is empowered by a previous decree to
designate a total of three pontiffs minor, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus is
designated by the Collegium as pontifex minor.

Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

(And at least I remembered the subject line this time!)

I thought it might be good of me, as the convening pontiff, to give a bit of
an explanation on what, really, a visum (or uisum, as I prefer) is, its
status, and why and how it's used. So I hope that my commentary below is
helpful, and if I'm anything less than crystal clear anywhere in it, please
don't hesitate to let me know, and I'll be glad to clarify. That's part of my
job, isn't it? Or did I miss another memo?

So, let me begin by stating what a uisum is. As you may note from my original
announcement, in the English version, I posted it as "Observation", which I
chose because the word best captures what 'uisum' means. A uisum is very
similar to a responsum, in that it has no legal force, but where a responsum
is a response to an inquiry from outside the issuing authority, a uisum
originates from the issuing authority, not having been prompted to answer
something brought to it. One could look at it in such a way that, if an
"outsider" (let's say, the Senate) recongised a problem, and referred the
matter to the Collegium Augurum for information on how to handle the problem,
then the augurs would collectively issue a responsum. But if the augurs
recognised the situation, and wanted to tell the Senate, "Hey, you, old guys,
handle it this way...", then a uisum would be issued. (I probably shouldn't
call them 'old guys'; I have a brother older than at least a third of the
senators.)

Next, the status of uisa. As I put into the preceding paragraph, uisa
currently have no legal force (nor should they). Uisa are observations of a
College (or, in some cases, individual members), directed toward other bodies,
when the issuer recognises a situation on which the issuer itself is unable to
act. To refer back to my previous example with respect to responsa, in that
case, the Senate had the ability to act, but asked the augurs for information
on how to act. And had the augurs recognised it first, their uisum would be
directed to the Senate. That, I think, actually explains its method of use
too. But onto the reasoning behind it!

Why are uisa issued? Well, as we all know (and sometimes hate), history
repeats itself. And when it does, it can save a little trouble when there's
already a uisum (or a responsum, for that matter) that has been issued.
Rather than having to pull sources all over again, either party might simply
look back on the earlier precedent, and drive straight from that (assuming
they're licensed for it).

So that's about the gist of uisa and responsa. Again, I hope it helps explain
things. And if not, well, um... don't know what to tell you. (No, not
really. I know what to tell you, but you might not like it. (No, really, I'm
not that mean. My sense of humour's a little off though. But if you have any
questions, send me a message, and I'll be glad to answer.))

Ualete Optime,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex

Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.

I simply am unable to pay that much, but if I get a good enough stipend for grad school this year I'm positive I can donate. However, a person in my shoes wouldn't be expected to divvy out anything even in ancient Rome! Someone should be funding my academic pursuits first, then when I am a success I'll pay a good wholesome amount.

Personally I'd like to see a committee formed to recreate ancient Italy in some way over in Italy, or perhaps a realistic frontier in England or perhaps Gaul. Something authentic and not touristy, and preferably actually over there, though I'm not too adverse to seeing something in the States either.

Di uos incolumes custodiant, ualete!

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...> wrote:

Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Stefen Ullerius Venator Piperbus S.P.D.

Salve,

What a generous challenge you have set before us.I shall follow your lead as well and donate at the first of next month when I recieve my retirement.I am glad to see this string has become so productive.We must get the word out to all concerned in the respublica.You are a true Roman.

Vale,
For The Gods!
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

> From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria.venii@...>

> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Challenge

> To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>

> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:41 PM

> Avete Omnes;
>
> I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00
> before taxes) to
> the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.
>
> Can the other Cives do the same?
>
> Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will
> support a land purchase anywhere.
>
> =========================================
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Senator et Custode
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
> http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

Messages | Members | Calendar

Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus sal.

I believe we're doing something like that here. As of January 1, the governor of Austrorientalis will also be a tribunus plebis, and both ciues of Memphis will be magistrates, one (Laenas) censor and the other (myself) quaestor.

Local temples/farmland would also be ideal.

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:

M. Valerius Potitus Ap. Galerio Aureliano Cn. Caelio Ahenobarbo SPD.

I totally agree with my amice, Caelius. Nova Roma needs local chapters
(oppida) and more face-to-face time.

I believe it should be the responsibility of all provincial governors
to establish oppida in their areas. Regular monthly meetings should be
held. New citizens should have to resources to contact and join these
oppida. All these things do not cost anything but time and initiative.

From these local chapters will come our future magistrates. The local
chapters will work out (in the real world) what it means to be a
Roman: the practice of the virtues (civic and personal), worship of
the Gods, auguries, Latin, the military, clothing, etc.

I think our goal for 2762 should be to have at least one
up-and-running oppidum in every province.

Valete.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus simus.

Hodie est ante diem XIX Kalendas Ianuaris; haec dies fastus aterque
est:

"By several days will bad and wintry weather often precede the proper
date to begin that season, as the Greeks say, 'to be an early
winter'." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 18.57).


The Nine Muses, by Florus

Clio records past ages in her prose.
Euterpe's hollow reed makes double sound.
Voice-famed Thalia revelling loves the soccus.
Melpomene's notes in tragic iambs seethe.
Terpsichore's golden lyre thrills all the sky.
Strings touched by Erato sweet love-songs make.
Polymnia sways her body in easy and in varied movements.
Urania scans the stars of heaven in verse.
Calliope crowns epic bards with bays.


AUC 389 / 364 BCE: Third Lectisterium and the Introduction of Games

"Now let me recall from the beginning the reason why games were
instituted. In the Consulship of C. Sulpicius Peticus and C.
Licinius Stolo a pestilence broke out with insupportable violence,
calling our community away from military activities and crushing it
with care for an internal mischief. And now it appeared that more
help was to be found in a carefully chosen new religious practice
than in any human device. So that people, who hitherto had been
content with the circus show first put on by Romulus under the name
of Consualia after the rape of the Sabine virgins, now lent vacant
ears to poems composed to placate celestial power. But as it is the
way of mankind to follow up small beginnings with zealous
persistence, the young men added to the worshipping words addressed
to the Gods playful gestures with rude and clumsy body movements, and
that gave rise to the summoning of a dancer from Etruria. His
graceful agility, after the ancient manner of Curetes and Lydians
from whom the Tuscans drew their origin, charmed the eyes of Romans
with its welcome novelty; and because a dancer was called 'ister' in
Etrurian, the name of 'historiones' was given to actors. Gradually
the mimic art made its slow way to the rhythm of saturae, from which
the poet Livius (Andronicus) was the first to draw the minds of
spectators to the themes of plays. He acted his own work and being
frequently recalled by the audience made his voice hoarse, so he
brought a boy and a flute player to make music while he silently went
through the miming. Atellans were introduced from the Oscans. That
form of entertainment was tempered with Italian austerity and so it
is free from censure, the actor being neither expelled from his tribe
nor repulsed from military service." ~ Valerius Maximus 2.4.1-4


"Grant me the strength, Goddess, to whom I ask, to whom I pray;
extend your assistance to me." ~ Livius Andronicus, fr. Equos Troianos

Da mihi hasce opes, quas peto, quas precor porrige opitula


Our thought for today is from Epictetus, Enchiridion 48:

"The condition and characteristic of a vulgar person is that he never
looks for either help or harm from himself, but only from externals.
The condition and characteristic of a philosopher is that he looks to
himself for all help or harm. The marks of a proficient are that he
censures no one, praises no one, blames no one, accuses no one; says
nothing concerning himself as being anybody, or knowing anything.
When he is in any instance hindered or restrained, he accuses
himself; and if he is praised, he smiles to himself at the person who
praises him; and if he is censured, he makes no defense. But he goes
about with the caution of a convalescent, careful of interference
with anything that is doing well, but not yet quite secure. He
restrains desire; he transfers his aversion to those things only
which thwart the proper use of our own will; he employs his energies
moderately in all directions; if he appears stupid or ignorant, he
does not care; and, in a word, he keeps watch over himself as over an
enemy and one in ambush."



----- Original Message -----

From: Q. Valerius Poplicola

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:58 AM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Challenge

Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.

I simply am unable to pay that much, but if I get a good enough stipend for grad school this year I'm positive I can donate. However, a person in my shoes wouldn't be expected to divvy out anything even in ancient Rome! Someone should be funding my academic pursuits first, then when I am a success I'll pay a good wholesome amount.

Personally I'd like to see a committee formed to recreate ancient Italy in some way over in Italy, or perhaps a realistic frontier in England or perhaps Gaul. Something authentic and not touristy, and preferably actually over there, though I'm not too adverse to seeing something in the States either.

Di uos incolumes custodiant, ualete!

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Robert Levee <galerius_of_ rome@yahoo. com> wrote:

Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Stefen Ullerius Venator Piperbus S.P.D.

Salve,

What a generous challenge you have set before us.I shall follow your lead as well and donate at the first of next month when I recieve my retirement.I am glad to see this string has become so productive.We must get the word out to all concerned in the respublica.You are a true Roman.

Vale,
For The Gods!
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus

--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria. venii@gmail. com> wrote:

> From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus <famila.ulleria. venii@gmail. com>

> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Challenge

> To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>

> Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:41 PM

> Avete Omnes;
>
> I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00
> before taxes) to
> the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.
>
> Can the other Cives do the same?
>
> Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will
> support a land purchase anywhere.
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ==
> In amicitia quod fides -
> Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> Senator et Custode
> Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
>
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/
>
> http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus
> http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
> http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
> http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
> http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

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Salvete,   Well said, sir, but Rome was not built in a day and neither will Nova Roma. However, I agree with you that an actual physical presence is needed. Now, someone correct me please if I am wrong, but does not Nova Roma already own land in Texas? Also, I do remember someone telling me that a group of Nova Romans somewhere in Europe are getting together to live together as Nova Romans; I distinctly remember this because I was asked if I would be willing to join them. So it seems to me that the first steps towards establishing a physical presence are already being taken by some Nova Romans somewhere. Perhaps they could discuss their efforts in more detail here on the ML for the benefit of all of us?   Valete bene in pace Deorum,   Maxima Valeria Messallina Sacerdos Vestalis   --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> wrote: From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@...> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we? To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 1:14 PM Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Ap. Galerio Aureliano omnibusque s.p.d.       We must rent or buy land or another facility. Many things come to mind: a small church building in a city, a parcel of land just outside a city, or any number of other options. We could rent a small place and create a temple to the gods, similar to the way little Protestant Christian churches start up all the time. The land option, while giving us more freedom, may or may not be preferable. We could definitely do something with a little bit of land, say 5 to 10 acres. Such parcels are not hard to find, are not expensive, and can be bought via owner-financing in many cases. These things would take not only the physical aspects of money, time, and energy on the part of individual cives and the Republic, but may also involve abstract changes to how the organization itself functions so that such a physical property would be under the control of the appropriate parts of the organization.     Nova Roma needs a full-time physical presence. That's pretty much all there is to it. Otherwise, we are an academic organization at best and a bunch of role players/fanatics/ weirdos/Internet junkies at worst. I know we all want more than either of those things. We want Rome. Rome must be built. Optime vale, et valete!   -- Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com From: Robert Levee <galerius_of_ rome@yahoo. com> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:06:05 PM Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we? Ap.Galerius Gnaeus Ahenobarbus S.P.D., Very well said sir.Perhaps you could suggest some ways we could come up with some concrete plans to do just that. Vale, Ap.Galerius Aurelianus --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@yahoo. com> wrote: > From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus <cn.caelius@yahoo. com> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What are we? > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 3:56 PM > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus s.p.d. > > I am in the camp that dislikes the word > "micronation" due to its connotations of a lack of > seriousness. We are a corporation of people dedicated to > restoring Roman values. If we had land, that land could be > used for a center to do that, with temples, a > "historical village", and even living quarters for > those who wished to espouse those values through their lives > whether part-time or full-time. > > Without at least one physical location like that, Nova > Roma will remain a collection of mailing lists and people > doing occasional events. If we have any hope of doing any > more than that, we must become more focused and, yes, more > serious. We should have land, regular religious rituals, > classes for the general public, and many other things. This > past year has seen Nova Roma and Novi Romani involved in > some amazing events, and that is a great thing. Let us not > lose the momentum that has been generated. Let us push > forward with zeal and energy. Let us be Romans. > > Optime valete! > > -- > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus > Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America > Austroccidentalis > Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius > Sabinus > http://becomingnewt hroughtheold. blogspot. com

Salve Varro,
in Pannonia you can buy a farm for 5000 (five thousand) euros. For
fifteen thousand you can buy one that has electricity and running
water too.

Maybe you should visit us and have a look. We would all be willing to
help, but we don't have capitals at the moment.

Optime vale,
Livia

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "philippe cardon"
<philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:

>
> i will sent 100€ for the nexte anniversary of Roma in april
>
> if some want to help me i have the project to create a center here

in gaul

> we can buy a old farm with land and built temple therms and circus

or amphitheater

>
> i have already the place i will wait for money we need so o 150 OOO

€ that is 200 000$

>
> naturralyy that is for NR
> varro
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Q. Valerius Poplicola
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Challenge
>
>
> Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
>
> I simply am unable to pay that much, but if I get a good enough

stipend for grad school this year I'm positive I can donate. However,
a person in my shoes wouldn't be expected to divvy out anything even
in ancient Rome! Someone should be funding my academic pursuits
first, then when I am a success I'll pay a good wholesome amount.

>
> Personally I'd like to see a committee formed to recreate ancient

Italy in some way over in Italy, or perhaps a realistic frontier in
England or perhaps Gaul. Something authentic and not touristy, and
preferably actually over there, though I'm not too adverse to seeing
something in the States either.

>
> Di uos incolumes custodiant, ualete!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Robert Levee

<galerius_of_rome@...> wrote:

>
> Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Stefen Ullerius Venator Piperbus S.P.D.
>
> Salve,
>
> What a generous challenge you have set before us.I shall follow

your lead as well and donate at the first of next month when I
recieve my retirement.I am glad to see this string has become so
productive.We must get the word out to all concerned in the
respublica.You are a true Roman.

>
> Vale,
> For The Gods!
> Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus

<famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> > From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus

<famila.ulleria.venii@...>

>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Challenge
>
> > To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>
> > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:41 PM
>
> > Avete Omnes;
> >
> > I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00
> > before taxes) to
> > the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.
> >
> > Can the other Cives do the same?
> >
> > Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will
> > support a land purchase anywhere.
> >
> > =========================================
> > In amicitia quod fides -
> > Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> > Senator et Custode
> > Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
> >
> > Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
> >
> > Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
> >
> > http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> > http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
> > http://ullarsskald01.Writing.Com/
> > http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> > http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
> > --
> > May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> > May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> > May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>
>
> Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new

topic

> Messages | Members | Calendar
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Salve Maxima Valeria,

Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> writes:

> does not Nova Roma already own land in Texas?

We own an "undivided portion" of a plot in Culbertson county, Texas,
that we're trying right now to get rid of. It has cost us a
considerable amount of money in taxes and because it's undevided, we
couldn't put up anything of our own if we wanted to. Unfortunately it
appears that M. Cassius Julianus was scammed when he purchased this.

So it's basically useless to us, and we want to rid ourselves of it.
If you look at the Senate Voting Results from July, at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/57034

You'll see that Item V says: The Senate hereby revokes the senatus
consultum of 26 November MMDCCLVI to classify the land in Texas as
ager publicus.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Ah, crap. Well, let that be a lesson to us all on the perils of purchasing property.   MVM --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote: From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The land in Texas To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 6:25 AM Salve Maxima Valeria, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ yahoo.com> writes: > does not Nova Roma already own land in Texas? We own an "undivided portion" of a plot in Culbertson county, Texas, that we're trying right now to get rid of. It has cost us a considerable amount of money in taxes and because it's undevided, we couldn't put up anything of our own if we wanted to. Unfortunately it appears that M. Cassius Julianus was scammed when he purchased this. So it's basically useless to us, and we want to rid ourselves of it. If you look at the Senate Voting Results from July, at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/message/ 57034 You'll see that Item V says: The Senate hereby revokes the senatus consultum of 26 November MMDCCLVI to classify the land in Texas as ager publicus. Vale, CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

M. Valerius Potitus Q. Valerio Poplicola SPD.

I'm very glad to hear about this. I think we're going to see some
great things come out of the Southeast. (Now, if we could only get
some manageable names for our mutual provinces!)

Vale.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
<catullus.poeta@...> wrote:

>
> Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus sal.
>
> I believe we're doing something like that here. As of January 1, the
> governor of Austrorientalis will also be a tribunus plebis, and both

ciues

> of Memphis will be magistrates, one (Laenas) censor and the other

(myself)

> quaestor.
>
> Local temples/farmland would also be ideal.
>

Avete Omnes;

Ah, my nefarious purpose is being achieved...cogent, mutually
respectable discussions being undertaken...mwa ha ha ha....

================
In felicitas - Venator

Omnibus s.d.

Six hours left to enter your gladiators and athlets in the Ianualia
contests !!

Sign up Quirites!


P. Memmius Albucius
aed. cur.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius"
<albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

>
> Aed. cur. Albucius omnibus s.d.
>
> After the traditional Ludi Plebeii that have been perfectly

organized

> by Aed. Plebis Constantinus and his team, here are coming our last
> Ludi for this year.
>
> These are the last Games of our 10th Birthday year: ludi Ianuales,
> the games of the threshold that will open with this end of

December,

> making a bridge with the beginning of January. They are thus
> dedicated, as a whole, to Ianus, the god of doors and gates, and

his

> cousin Portunus.
>
> These will be modest games, with just a Munera and an Athletica
> contest, in order to end the year with a balanced number of types

of

> competitions (curule and plebeian ones included), and to allow us

at

> the same time to go to Circus Maximus (which will shelter both
> competitions) and to share our time in the celebrations of

Consualia,

> Saturnalia and Opalia.
>
> Our Ianuales will thus be given from coming Mo. Dec. 15 to Dec. 19..
>
> Gladiators and Athlets entries are welcome until Mo. 15th 0 h Rome
> time, at my personal address, or simply on this Forum.
>
> Have good Ludi and good Ianuales events, Quirites!
>
> Valete omnes,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> aed. cur.
>

Salvete omnes,

As elected praetor, I feel necessary to remind all the elected
magistrates that the oath of office is organized by Lex Iunia de
iusiurando 19 Oct 52, modified by lex Cassia de iusiurando 04 Dec 54.

Lex Iunia provides:

"The Lex Iunia Iusiurando is hereby enacted to put in place an Oath
of Office for any citizen assuming any magistracy of Nova Roma,
whether elected or appointed.

The following oath must be taken publicly in the major public fora of
Nova Roma before someone elected or appointed to any magistracy can
assume his or her office. It must be taken on the day, or as soon as
possible afterwards, that the office is to be assumed. The office
shall be considered vacant until the oath is taken.

"I, (enter the legal and Roman names here) do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, (enter the Roman name here) swear to
honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, (enter the Roman name here) swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a
way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, (enter the Roman name here) swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, (enter the Roman name here) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of (enter the title of
the office here) to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of (enter title of office here) and all the
rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant
thereto."

Every concerned civis has just to copy the above oath and fill it
with his name(s). Every other oathes have no legal value, even if
written in the best intents and good faith. :-)

Please also note that the oath is to be pronounced from Jan. 1st on,
and "as soon as possible" after this day, except for our tribunes who
have entered in office last Dec. 10.

Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
pr. el.

Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus omnibus salutem plurimam dicit

With all the discussion about the land fund and such, I feel this is the right time to announce a list. A little while back, I started discussing this subject with other Novi Romani. To facilitate discussion, we created a list: Coloniae-Romanae. Its goal is to give us a place to dicuss, in detail, the discovery of land and the purchase thereof, and to create real Roman communities. There are already some good messages there. If you're interested, go to the URL below and request membership. The list is currently moderated, but you should be approved quickly.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Coloniae-Romanae/

To the dream of a Roman settlement! Optime valete!

--
Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
Aedilis Oppidi, Oppidum Fluminis Gilae, America Austroccidentalis
Accensus, cos. M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus et T. Iulius Sabinus
http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Lucia Livia Plauta

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 3:01 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Challenge

Salve Varro,
in Pannonia you can buy a farm for 5000 (five thousand) euros. For
fifteen thousand you can buy one that has electricity and running
water too.

Maybe you should visit us and have a look. We would all be willing to
help, but we don't have capitals at the moment.

Optime vale,
Livia

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "philippe cardon"
<philippe.cardon01@ ...> wrote:
>
> i will sent 100€ for the nexte anniversary of Roma in april
>
> if some want to help me i have the project to create a center here
in gaul
> we can buy a old farm with land and built temple therms and circus
or amphitheater
>
> i have already the place i will wait for money we need so o 150 OOO
€ that is 200 000$
>
> naturralyy that is for NR
> varro
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Q. Valerius Poplicola
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Challenge
>
>
> Q. Valerius Poplicola omnibus S. P. D.
>
> I simply am unable to pay that much, but if I get a good enough
stipend for grad school this year I'm positive I can donate. However,
a person in my shoes wouldn't be expected to divvy out anything even
in ancient Rome! Someone should be funding my academic pursuits
first, then when I am a success I'll pay a good wholesome amount.
>
> Personally I'd like to see a committee formed to recreate ancient
Italy in some way over in Italy, or perhaps a realistic frontier in
England or perhaps Gaul. Something authentic and not touristy, and
preferably actually over there, though I'm not too adverse to seeing
something in the States either.
>
> Di uos incolumes custodiant, ualete!
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Robert Levee
<galerius_of_ rome@...> wrote:
>
> Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Stefen Ullerius Venator Piperbus S.P.D.
>
> Salve,
>
> What a generous challenge you have set before us.I shall follow
your lead as well and donate at the first of next month when I
recieve my retirement.I am glad to see this string has become so
productive.We must get the word out to all concerned in the
respublica.You are a true Roman.
>
> Vale,
> For The Gods!
> Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
<famila.ulleria. venii@... > wrote:
>
> > From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
<famila.ulleria. venii@... >
>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Challenge
>
> > To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
>
> > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 7:41 PM
>
> > Avete Omnes;
> >
> > I am, this day, sending one day's wages (US$ 110.00
> > before taxes) to
> > the Nova Roma treasury as a beginning to a Land Fund.
> >
> > Can the other Cives do the same?
> >
> > Although Nova Roma is a "US" phenomena; I will
> > support a land purchase anywhere.
> >
> > ============ ========= ========= ========= ==
> > In amicitia quod fides -
> > Stephanus Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus
> > Senator et Custode
> > Civis, Patrician, Paterfamilias et Lictor
> >
> > Religio Septentrionalis - Poetus
> >
> > Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Sodalis_ Coq_et_Coq/
> >
> > http://www.myspace. com/venator_ poetus
> > http://anheathenrea der.blogspot. com/
> > http://ullarsskald0 1.Writing. Com/
> > http://www.catamoun t-grange- hearth.org/
> > http://www.cafepres s.com/catamountg range
> > --
> > May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> > May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> > May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>
>
> Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
topic
> Messages | Members | Calendar
>
>
>
>
>
>
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