Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jan 29-31, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60813 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Petronius (Was:SOCIAL REFORM AND TWO-TIER TAXATION SYSTEM)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60814 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60815 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60816 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: a. d. IV Kalendas Februarias: Death of Gaius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60817 From: Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Official Results of Senate Meeting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60819 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60820 From: aeliasaturnina Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: New Member
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60821 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Attention: Change of email address for Consul M. Iulius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60822 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60823 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60824 From: Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60825 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60826 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Re: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60827 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Re: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60828 From: Gallagher Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60829 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Edictum de Creatione Scribae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60830 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60831 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Pridie Kalendas Februarius: Genita Mana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60832 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60833 From: lhlm75 Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60834 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60836 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: prid. kal. Feb. - Hecate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60837 From: belovedmetrobius Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60838 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60839 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60840 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60841 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60842 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60843 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60844 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60813 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Petronius (Was:SOCIAL REFORM AND TWO-TIER TAXATION SYSTEM)
C. Petronius Juliae Aquilae Omnibusque sal.

> GPD:> >>> Woh, I am the Petronius of everybody. <<<
>
> Why yes, you are!

Many thanks to you! I am red of confusion...


> GPD:> ;-) Instead I watched "Quo Vadis" of Merwin LeRoy, with Peter
> Ustinov as Nero and Leo Genn as Petronius. The Petronius character
in
> this film (best Petronius performance ever) was that evoked me to
> love Romans and wishing to restore Rome when I was 10 years old.
> Beautiful movie, and yesterday was the 31th anniversary of Leo
Genn's
> death, so it's actual.

Ah Julia, you give the Lentulus' answer under my hand. The sentence
you quote above was from *our* Lentulus. :o)

That said, teenager I saw me too Quo Vadis? the movie and I read the
book in a French translation. Me too I liked the character of the
great gentleman Petronius and also Peter Ustinov as Nero.

If I chose Petronius as nomen it is only because I love the Latin
writer Petronius, I often read passages of the Satiricon, I have at
home the tape and the book of Quo Vadis?, and the DVD of the
Fellini's Satyricon.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60814 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
C. Petronius quæstor Cn. Iulio Caesari aedili curuli s.p.d.,

> CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
>
> I hereby appoint the following two citizens as scribes, to be assigned
> to one or more of the five work groups within the Cohors Aedilicia. No
> oath is required of them. Further appointments may follow.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Cicero
> Lucia Ferraria Gemina

And two scribes more...
It is not a cohors aedilicia, but a legion. ;o)

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60815 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Cn. Iulius Caesar C. Petronio Dextro

Indeed ;)

Actually as there are five areas of responsibility within the cohors, and
having to make allowance for vacation, sickness, work distractions, family
commitments etc. building a team of scribes that can handle the work over 12
months without becoming overburdened or burned out, because they are too few
and have too few hours, lends itself to 5 scribes per area. With that number
staffing abstractions can be easily absorbed without becoming critical. Work
done in a mutually supportive team environment is the goal, where the
assignments can be divided up between the 5 to reduce the overload and
increase the likelihood of tasks completed on time and effectively. The less
scribes you have in an area such as this, the more likely tasks will fall by
the wayside, get delayed or dropped completely.

Currently I think the cohors is only 2 away from being fully staffed.

Optime vale.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:11 AM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE

> C. Petronius quæstor Cn. Iulio Caesari aedili curuli s.p.d.,
>
>> CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
>>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60816 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: a. d. IV Kalendas Februarias: Death of Gaius Caesar
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos salvas et servatas volunt.

Hodie est ante diem IV Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:

AUC 752 / 1 BC: Gaius Caesar departs for the east, where, in 4 CE, he
died from a wound that he suffered while campaigning near Artagira,
Armenia.

"Gaius assumed command of the legions on the Ister with peaceful
intent. Indeed, he fought no war, not because no war broke out, but
because he was learning to rule in quiet and safety, while the
dangerous undertakings were regularly assigned to others.

"When the Armenians revolted and the Parthians joined with them,
Augustus was distressed and at a loss what to do. For he himself was
not fit for campaigning by reason of age, while Tiberius, as has been
stated, had already withdrawn, and he did not dare send any other
influential man; as for Gaius and Lucius, they were young and
inexperienced in affairs. Nevertheless, under the stress of
necessity, he chose Gaius, gave him the proconsular authority and a
wife, in order that he might also have the increased dignity that
attached to a married man, and appointed advisers to him. Gaius
accordingly set out and was everywhere received with marks of
distinction, as befitted one who was the emperor's grandson and was
even looked upon as his son. Even Tiberius went to Chios and paid
court to him, thus endeavouring to clear himself of suspicion;
indeed, he humiliated himself and grovelled at the feet, not only of
Gaius, but also of all the associates of Gaius. And Gaius, after
going to Syria and meeting with no great success, was wounded.

"When the barbarians heard of Gaius' expedition, Phrataces sent men
to Augustus to explain what had occurred and to demand the return of
his brothers on condition of his accepting peace. The emperor sent
him a letter in reply, addressed simply to "Phrataces," without the
appellation of "king," in which he directed him to lay aside the
royal name and to withdraw from Armenia. Thereupon the Parthian, so
far from being cowed, wrote back in a generally haughty tone, styling
himself "King of Kings" and addressing Augustus simply as "Caesar."
Tigranes did not at once send any envoys, but when Artabazus somewhat
later fell ill and died, he sent gifts to Augustus, in view of the
fact that his rival had been removed, and though he did not mention
the name "king" in his letter, he really did petition Augustus for
the kingship. Influenced by these considerations and at the same time
fearing the war with the Parthians, the emperor accepted the gifts
and bade him go with good hopes to Gaius in Syria." ~ Dio Cassius
55.10.17-21


Today's thought is from Heracleitus, Fragment 102, in Porhyrius I
Iliadem IV 4.

"To God all things are beautiful and good and just, but men have
supposed some things to be just, others unjust."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60817 From: Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Official Results of Senate Meeting
Tribunus Plebis Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Quiritibus SPD

The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been tallied as follows:
Formal debate ended at (17.00 hrs CET) on 20 Jan. 2762
Voting began in the second hour at 06.45 hrs CET on 22 Jan. 2762
Voting ended at 17.00 hrs CET on 25 Jan. 2762
Results were officially published by the presiding magistrate Consul M. Curiatius
Complutensis on the Senate list on 25 Jan. 2762

The following (26) Senators cast votes in time, and referred to below by their initials:

1. MCC> Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
2. MIS> Marcus Iulius Severus
3. GEM>Cn Equitius Marinus
4. GPL> C Popillius Laenas
5. PMA> P. Memmius Albucius
6. TOP>T. Octavius Pius
7. TGP> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
8. CFD> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
9. MLA> M. Lucretius Agricola
10. CFBQ> K Fabius Buteo Quintinlianus
11. TIS> T Iulius Sabinus
12. QSP> Q Suetonius Paulinus
13. KFBM> K Fabius Buteo Modianus
14. MMA>M Minicius Audens
15. CEC> C Equitius Cato
16. ATMC> Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
17. QFM> Q Fabius Maximus
18. EIL> Equestria Iunia Laeca
19. ATS> A Tullia Scholastica
20. SUV> S Ullerius Venator
21. GIC> Cn Iulius Caesar
22. MHM> M Hortensia Maior
23. DIP> D Iunius Palladius Invictus
24. GMM> C Marius Merullus
25. MMPH> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
26. AMM> Anna Minucia Marcella

The following Senators did not cast a vote, and their absence was not announced or
justified in line with the Senatus Consultum defining a quorum and the LEX OCTAVIA DE
SENATORIBUS:

FLG> Fl. Vedius Germanicus
FAC> Fr. Apulus Caesar
MIP> M. Iulius Perusianus
MAM> M. Arminius Maior
CCS> C. Curius Saturninus
ECF> Em Curia Finnica
FGA> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
AMA> Am. Moravia Aurelia

Therefore, the necessary majority for a Senatus Consultum was 14 votes in favor.

"UTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item,
"ANTIQUO" is a vote against,
"ABSTINEO" is an open abstention

The Agenda items for consideration were as follows:

ITEM I: Withdrawn

ITEM 2: Withdrawn

Item III.A: PASSED
The Patres et Matres Conscripti is respectfully requested to agree on a special ovatio to
Senator Audens, for his dedicated services.

24 Uti Rogas
1 Antiquo
1 Abstineo

*MCC> UTI ROGAS.
*MIS: VTI ROGAS
*GEM> UTI ROGAS
*GPL> UTI ROGAS
*PMA>UTI ROGAS
*TOP> UTI ROGAS; Thank you for your tireless efforts for the republic! You have kept the
helm steady for longer than any other before you.
*TGP: VTI ROGAS
*CFD: Uti Rogas. Honorable Senator Audens, I know you now since I became a citizen of
Nova Roma. You were always aboard, always kind and helpful, always a dedicated Senator
and citizen. My heartful thanks for your efforts, for your dedication to our Res Publica
*MLA> Yes. Indeed this item is worthy of support.
*KFBQ> UTI ROGAS; Thank you for your many years of fine work for the Res Publica! No
one deserves an ovatio more than You!
*TIS: Uti rogas.
*QSP: VTI ROGAS
*KFBM:š Antiquo.
*MMA> Abstain. I am greatly honored and humbled by the many very kind comments
from my Senate Colleagues.š My thanks for your very, very kind words.
*CEC> UTI ROGAS
*ATMC: VTI ROGAS Our colleague Marcus Audens has earned this many times over. A
honest and wise gentleman, and tireless servant of Nova Roma, I am proud and thankful to
have known him through Nova Roma over the years. My sincere congratulations to Marcus
Audens.
*QFM> VTI ROGAS. My old Co-Consul is has had this honor delayed long enough.
*EIL: Uti Rogas
*ATS: š Assentior; uti rogas. š Senatori Audenti maximae gratiae agendae sunt
pro multis laboribus quos Rei Publicae per hos decem annos bene fecit. š
*SUV: Ita, most definitely, yes.
*GIC: UTI ROGAS
*MHM> Uti Rogas, Senator Audens has given long and faithful service to Nova Roma
*DIP> UTI ROGAS. With gratitude for the years of work and uncounted hours he has
dedicated to Nova Roma.
*CMM> VTI ROGASš Vivat Marcus Minucius Audens
*MMPH: Adsentior uti rogas.
*AMM: Uti Rogas

Item III.B: PASSED
The appointment of Senator Modianus as Editor commentariorum is proposed, urging
him to resume the edition of Aquila .

19 Uti Rogas
5 Antiquo
2 Abstineo

*MCC> UTI ROGAS.
*MIS: VTI ROGAS
*GEM> UTI ROGAS
*GPL> UTI ROGAS
*PMA>UTI ROGAS
*TOP> UTI ROGAS
*TGP: VTI ROGAS
*CFD: Uti Rogas.
*MLA> Abstain. I did not see anything here indicating he was asked. Does he have the
time?
*KFBQ> UTI ROGAS
*TIS: Uti rogas.
*QSP: VTI ROGAS
*KFBM:š Uti Rogas.
*MMA> Abstain. I was of the opinion that Senator Modianus had indicated that he
did not have the time to serve on a Senate Committee due to the intensive labor of his
school studies.š The task ofš Editor "Aquila" can be a large one, and can take a great deal
of time and effort.š I am further sorry to note that Senator Modianus needed my
removal from the position before he would be willing to do anything further in this
area. However, if he has the time now, he certainly has the skill, and I wish him well
in whatever he may decide to do.
*CEC: ANTIQUO - simply because he has not said whether or not he has the time or
thewillingness to do so; I do not consider a vote by himself for himself to be
sufficient evidence in light of his quite extensive extra-republican activities.
I speak from personal experience when I say that we often think we can do much much
more than we are actually able, physically or mentally, to do.
*ATMC: VTI ROGAS
*QFM> VTI ROGAS. Though if the man is too busy to do a proper job, we should not
hold him to it, and appoint someone who is not.
*EIL: Uti Rogas
*ATS: š Antiquo. š It is my understanding that Senator Modianus is a graduate student
who has admitted that he does not have much time for other activities. š It might be best
to have someone else at present, and have him take over when he completes his
studies and/or has more time to devote to this time-consuming effort. š
*SUV: Ita, again, most definitely, yes. ['Tis a day to be indefinite, on Item III B...after having
read further and looked at past posting. I too, change my vote to Negatio.
This change is based solely upon the impression given of lack of time.]
*GIC: ANTIQUO. I would have thought the candidate for all this official encouragement
could at least have indicated here in this House if he is willing, and has the
time, to perform this task. Sadly, as far as I can see his only contribution in this
matter during this session was to vote against an ovatio for Marcus Audens, which is a
recognition more than well deserved. For that boorish and petty act and because he
couldn't be bothered to tell the rest of us if he is going to take up this task and indicate if
his personal troubles are likely to affect the performance of this role.
*MHM> Uti Rogas.š if Senator Modianus believes he has the time he deserves the
appointment. The last issue of Aquila was excellent.
*DIP> Antiquo. Modianus recently turned down committee appointments because of
lack of time, I doubt he would have time for this. He has not indicated he does.
*CMM> VTI ROGASš I vote to appoint Senator Modianus as editor of the newsletter
and joinš Q Fabius and others inš treating this as a conditional appointment depending on
the Modianus' ability to spend the time necessary to do the job. I'm sorry to be casting an
evening vote but have not had an opportunity to do this earlier.
*MMPH: Adsentior uti rogas.
*AMM: Uti rogas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60819 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Q. Valerius C. Petronio SPD:

And why not? The aediles have such a large amount of work to do. I'd
also recommend that people join the Plebeian Aedilician team as well.
The more festivity we can offer, the better. And the more people that
can work on the Aedile team, the more we can offer.

And then we're going to don our swords and shields and cross the
rubicon! ;)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter"
<jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius quæstor Cn. Iulio Caesari aedili curuli s.p.d.,
>
> > CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
> >
> > I hereby appoint the following two citizens as scribes, to be assigned
> > to one or more of the five work groups within the Cohors Aedilicia. No
> > oath is required of them. Further appointments may follow.
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Cicero
> > Lucia Ferraria Gemina
>
> And two scribes more...
> It is not a cohors aedilicia, but a legion. ;o)
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60820 From: aeliasaturnina Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: New Member
Salvete Omnes!

I hope I got that right!

I just learned that my membership application to Nova Roma has been
accepted, and I am so thrilled to be a part of this community. I've
been lurking in the background, just reading posts until now, trying
to get a feel for how things are done.

I would appreciate any advice that you have for a new member.

Looking forward to getting to know you all!

Aelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60821 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Attention: Change of email address for Consul M. Iulius Severus
Salvéte, amícae et amící

As of Today, January 29 2009, the official email for Consul M. Iulius
Severus
is changed to:
m.iul.severus.consulATgmailDOTcom
Please add this to your contact list.
This is to be used for all Official and Business Nova Roma mail for the
duration of the esteemed Consul's current term.

Valéte et habéte fortúnam bonam!
Julia Aquila

L•IVLIA•AQVILA
ACCENSA•CONSVLVM•M•CVRIATI•COMPLVTENSII•ET•M•IVLI•SEVERI
Personal Secretary to Consul M. Iulius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60822 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: CURULE AEDILE EDICT 62-06: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBAE
Metellus Poplicolae salutem.

> And then we're going to don our swords and shields and cross the
> Rubicon! ;)

Of course, you know, that house right across the river is mine. That other
Caesar chap destroyed it the first time; go gentle on it this time, please!

Vale,

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
aed. pl.

http://hiereus.livejournal.com/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60823 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Tiberius Horatius Barbatus"
<robbjaxon@...> wrote:
>
> Tribunus Plebis Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been
tallied as follows:
> Formal debate ended at (17.00 hrs CET) on 20 Jan. 2762
> Voting began in the second hour at 06.45 hrs CET on 22 Jan. 2762
> Voting ended at 17.00 hrs CET on 25 Jan. 2762
> Results were officially published by the presiding magistrate Consul
M. Curiatius
> Complutensis on the Senate list on 25 Jan. 2762
>
> The following (26) Senators cast votes in time, and referred to
below by their initials:
>
> 1. MCC> Marcus Curiatius Complutensis
> 2. MIS> Marcus Iulius Severus
> 3. GEM>Cn Equitius Marinus
> 4. GPL> C Popillius Laenas
> 5. PMA> P. Memmius Albucius
> 6. TOP>T. Octavius Pius
> 7. TGP> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> 8. CFD> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> 9. MLA> M. Lucretius Agricola
> 10. CFBQ> K Fabius Buteo Quintinlianus
> 11. TIS> T Iulius Sabinus
> 12. QSP> Q Suetonius Paulinus
> 13. KFBM> K Fabius Buteo Modianus
> 14. MMA>M Minicius Audens
> 15. CEC> C Equitius Cato
> 16. ATMC> Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
> 17. QFM> Q Fabius Maximus
> 18. EIL> Equestria Iunia Laeca
> 19. ATS> A Tullia Scholastica
> 20. SUV> S Ullerius Venator
> 21. GIC> Cn Iulius Caesar
> 22. MHM> M Hortensia Maior
> 23. DIP> D Iunius Palladius Invictus
> 24. GMM> C Marius Merullus
> 25. MMPH> M Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
> 26. AMM> Anna Minucia Marcella
>
> The following Senators did not cast a vote, and their absence was
not announced or
> justified in line with the Senatus Consultum defining a quorum and
the LEX OCTAVIA DE
> SENATORIBUS:
>
> FLG> Fl. Vedius Germanicus
> FAC> Fr. Apulus Caesar
> MIP> M. Iulius Perusianus
> MAM> M. Arminius Maior
> CCS> C. Curius Saturninus
> ECF> Em Curia Finnica
> FGA> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
> AMA> Am. Moravia Aurelia
>
> Therefore, the necessary majority for a Senatus Consultum was 14
votes in favor.
>
>

Salve
Is not in fact the # of the necessary majority for a Senatus Consultum
a % "of the whole Senate" the # does not care if you show up if not
haft show up no meeting.if is not the % of who shows BUT OF THE whole
Senate YES? last time i looked thats was the law.
I know it is the law for the state we are incorped in.

vale Marcus Cornelius Felix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60824 From: Tiberius Horatius Barbatus Date: 2009-01-29
Subject: Re: Official Results of Senate Meeting
Salve Felix,
The way I understand it (and how it was explained to me) is put forth in the
Senatus consultum de ratione senatus MMDCCLIX (Nova Roma)
C. Except where otherwise stated, a Senatus Consultum is enacted when the number of
affirmative votes (as described above) equals or exceeds the number required for a
"simple majority".
1. Simple Majority: A simple majority is defined as the number of affirmative votes plus
the number of negative votes, divided by two, with one added to that result. Abstentions
are not counted when determining this number. An equivalent result may be obtained by
directly comparing the numbers of affirmative and negative votes, again ignoring
abstentions; if the number of affirmative votes EXCEEDS (not merely equals) the number of
negative votes, the item has succeeded, and the Senate has voted in favour of the item.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Senatus_consultum_de_ratione_senatus_MMDCCLIX_%28Nov
a_Roma%29

I believe what you're referring to is a quorum. The majority of the Senators voting or who
have not announced their absence as defined in the Senatus Consultum on Defining a
Quorum are counted towards quorum. A majority is needed in order for an item to pass.
(See above)

The voting was reported as indicated by the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma.

Hopefully this has answered your question.

Vale

Barbatus

> Salve
> Is not in fact the # of the necessary majority for a Senatus Consultum
> a % "of the whole Senate" the # does not care if you show up if not
> haft show up no meeting.if is not the % of who shows BUT OF THE whole
> Senate YES? last time i looked thats was the law.
> I know it is the law for the state we are incorped in.
>
> vale Marcus Cornelius Felix
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60825 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodiant

Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus est:
feriae ex consulto senatus quod eo die ara Pacis Augustae dedicata.

Felices natalis Marce Corve! Today is the birthday of our Diribitor
and Legatus pro Praetor Sarmatiae M. Octavius Corvus.


Come, Peace, your graceful tresses wreathed
With laurel of Actium: stay gently in this world.
While we lack enemies, or cause for triumphs:
You'll be a greater glory to our leaders than war.
May the soldier be armed to defend against arms,
And the trumpet blare only for processions.
May the world far and near fear the sons of Aeneas,
And let any land that feared Rome too little, love her.
Priests, add incense to the peaceful flames,
Let a shining sacrifice fall, brow wet with wine,
And ask the Gods who favour pious prayer
That the house that brings peace, may so endure.
~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.711-722


AUC 744 / 9 BCE: Dedication of the Ara Pacis Augustae

"When I returned from Spain and Gaul, in the consulship of Tiberius
Nero and Publius Quintilius [13 BCE], after successful operations in
those provinces, the Senate voted in honor of my return the
consecration of an altar to Pax Augusta in the Campus Martius, and on
this altar it ordered the magistrates and priests and Vestal virgins
to make annual sacrifice. Janus Quirinus, which our ancestors ordered
to be closed whenever there was peace, secured by victory, throughout
the whole domain of the Roman people on land and sea, and which,
before my birth is recorded to have been closed but twice in all
since the foundation of the city, the senate ordered to be closed
thrice while I was princeps." ~ Augustus, Res Gestae Divi Augusti
12.2-13

Commissioned by the Senate on 4 July 13 to honor Augustus upon his
triumphal return from Gaul and Hispania, the Ara Pacis Augustae was
dedicated nearly three and a half years later, celebrating the peace
that Augustus had brought to the Empire through his many victories.
The iconography of the altar and its surrounding enclosure depict the
Pax Augusta as a result of the Pax Deorum attained by the Augustan
Restoration of the religio Romana. The altar sits is atop a platform
of eight steps. The altar itself is decorated with a band of friezes
around the top that depicts a procession of sacrificial animals led
by poppae and victimarii. Panels on the lower section are thought to
have depicted a scene from a sacrifice, with another panel depicting
the veiled Vestales Virgines. The inner portion of the enclosing
wall has reliefs of bucraniae, wreathes, and paterae. The panels on
the outside of the enclosing wall link the Augustan regime in the Pax
Deorum in two ways. First in myth, on the front right panel, Aeneas
finding a white sow is taken from Virgil's description in the Aeneid,
thematically linking Augustus as the new founder of the religio
Romana. On the front left panel, Mars and Faustulus flank the
lupercal where Romulus and Remus are seen being suckled by a she-
wolf. This scene was possibly intended to suggest Augustus as the new
Founder of Rome. The rear left panel shows Tellus or Ceres or Pax,
flanked by two Nymphae. Romulus and Remus sit on Her lap;
thematically connecting Her with Livia, as Iulia Augusta, and mother
of Tiberius and Drusus. Another panel on the right rear shows a
female warrior, probably intended to depict Roma or Victoria Augusta,
or Pax, sitting on a pile of captured enemy arms to represent the
peace won through the victories of Augustus.

On the long sides of the enclosing wall are panels of the imperial
family, magistrates, and priests seen in a procession towards the
western entrance to the altar. Augustus leads the procession on the
south side. He is accompanied by his camillus and lictores, followed
by flamines in their distinctive apexes. Next comes Agrippa capite
velite accompanied by his son Gaius. Livia comes next, followed by
Antonia Minor and her husband Drusus with their children. Nero
Claudius Drusus is seen in a military uniform. He was consul and
died that same year as the altar was dedicated. Next is Antonia
Maior with her huband and children. The northern procession has
pontifices, quindecemviri sacris faciundis, and the semptemviri
epulones along with their assistants and other children of the
imperial family. Much of the image of Augustan is now missing. In
the original design he can be seen at the apex of priests and civil
administrators. He leads the procession as both Pontifex Maximus and
Imperator, with his lictors and the flamines maiores behind him, and
as head of a dynasty posed by his several grandchildren on the
panels. The entire scheme of the decoration is then to show Augustus
as the one person who connects the fortunes of the Empire to the
interests of the immortal Gods and how the Pax Deorum is dependent
upon him offering sacrifice in fide to the Gods in the same manner as
the legendary founders of Alba Longa and Rome.

Museo dell'Ara Pacis http://en.arapacis.it/
Best photos of the Ara Pacis at Bluffton University:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/AandL/Maecenas/rome/ara_pacis/section_content
s.html
Article and photos at Bluffton University:
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/rome/arapacis/arapacis.html


AUC 886 / 133 CE: Birth of Emperor M. Didius Salvius Julianus Severus

"Meanwhile Didius Julianus, at once an insatiate money-getter and a
wanton spendthrift, who was always eager for revolution and hence had
been exiled by Commodus to his native city of Mediolanum, now, when
he heard of the death of Pertinax, hastily made his way to the camp,
and, standing at the gates of the enclosure, made bids to the
soldiers for the rule over the Romans. Then ensued a most disgraceful
business and one unworthy of Rome." ~ Cassius Dio 74.11.2

In 193 CE the Praetorian Guard became upset with Emperor Pertinax for
his strict military discipline and his economical rule after the
excesses of Commodus. Failing to give the Praetorians an extra
bonus, they murdered Pertinax (28 Mar.) and promised the throne to
the highest bidder. This was Didius Julianus. The legions of Syria,
Panonnia, and Britannia declared their own commanders emperors. All
began to march against Didius in April or May, L. Septimus Severus
from Panonnia arriving first to put an end to Didius on 1 June.


Today's thought is from Cicero, De Officiis 2.2

"What, in the name of heaven, is more to be desired than wisdom? What
is more to be prized? What is better for a man, what more worthy of
his nature? Those who seek after it are called philosophers; and
philosophy is nothing else, if one will translate the word into our
idiom, than "the love of wisdom." Wisdom, morever, as the word has
been defined by the philosophers of old, is "the knowledge of things
human and divine and of the causes by which those things are
controlled."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60826 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Re: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
The Altar of Peace gives us a good idea of how Romans looked and dressed -- it's especially useful for those who research ceremonial clothing, as well as those investigating foundation mythologies.
 
 
-------------------------------------------
 
Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus est:
feriae ex consulto senatus quod eo die ara Pacis Augustae dedicata.

Come, Peace, your graceful tresses wreathed
With laurel of Actium: stay gently in this world.
While we lack enemies, or cause for triumphs:
You'll be a greater glory to our leaders than war.
May the soldier be armed to defend against arms,
And the trumpet blare only for processions.
May the world far and near fear the sons of Aeneas,
And let any land that feared Rome too little, love her.
Priests, add incense to the peaceful flames,
Let a shining sacrifice fall, brow wet with wine,
And ask the Gods who favour pious prayer
That the house that brings peace, may so endure.
~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.711-722

AUC 744 / 9 BCE: Dedication of the Ara Pacis Augustae
"When I returned from Spain and Gaul, in the consulship of Tiberius
Nero and Publius Quintilius [13 BCE], after successful operations in
those provinces, the Senate voted in honor of my return the
consecration of an altar to Pax Augusta in the Campus Martius, and on
this altar it ordered the magistrates and priests and Vestal virgins
to make annual sacrifice. Janus Quirinus, which our ancestors ordered
to be closed whenever there was peace, secured by victory, throughout
the whole domain of the Roman people on land and sea, and which,
before my birth is recorded to have been closed but twice in all
since the foundation of the city, the senate ordered to be closed
thrice while I was princeps." ~ Augustus, Res Gestae Divi Augusti
12.2-13

Commissioned by the Senate on 4 July 13 to honor Augustus upon his
triumphal return from Gaul and Hispania, the Ara Pacis Augustae was
dedicated nearly three and a half years later, celebrating the peace
that Augustus had brought to the Empire through his many victories.
The iconography of the altar and its surrounding enclosure depict the
Pax Augusta as a result of the Pax Deorum attained by the Augustan
Restoration of the religio Romana. The altar sits is atop a platform
of eight steps. The altar itself is decorated with a band of friezes
around the top that depicts a procession of sacrificial animals led
by poppae and victimarii. Panels on the lower section are thought to
have depicted a scene from a sacrifice, with another panel depicting
the veiled Vestales Virgines. The inner portion of the enclosing
wall has reliefs of bucraniae, wreathes, and paterae. The panels on
the outside of the enclosing wall link the Augustan regime in the Pax
Deorum in two ways. First in myth, on the front right panel, Aeneas
finding a white sow is taken from Virgil's description in the Aeneid,
thematically linking Augustus as the new founder of the religio
Romana. On the front left panel, Mars and Faustulus flank the
lupercal where Romulus and Remus are seen being suckled by a she-
wolf. This scene was possibly intended to suggest Augustus as the new
Founder of Rome. The rear left panel shows Tellus or Ceres or Pax,
flanked by two Nymphae. Romulus and Remus sit on Her lap;
thematically connecting Her with Livia, as Iulia Augusta, and mother
of Tiberius and Drusus. Another panel on the right rear shows a
female warrior, probably intended to depict Roma or Victoria Augusta,
or Pax, sitting on a pile of captured enemy arms to represent the
peace won through the victories of Augustus.

On the long sides of the enclosing wall are panels of the imperial
family, magistrates, and priests seen in a procession towards the
western entrance to the altar. Augustus leads the procession on the
south side. He is accompanied by his camillus and lictores, followed
by flamines in their distinctive apexes. Next comes Agrippa capite
velite accompanied by his son Gaius. Livia comes next, followed by
Antonia Minor and her husband Drusus with their children. Nero
Claudius Drusus is seen in a military uniform. He was consul and
died that same year as the altar was dedicated. Next is Antonia
Maior with her huband and children. The northern procession has
pontifices, quindecemviri sacris faciundis, and the semptemviri
epulones along with their assistants and other children of the
imperial family. Much of the image of Augustus is now missing. In
the original design he can be seen at the apex of priests and civil
administrators. He leads the procession as both Pontifex Maximus and
Imperator, with his lictors and the flamines maiores behind him, and
as head of a dynasty posed by his several grandchildren on the
panels. The entire scheme of the decoration is then to show Augustus
as the one person who connects the fortunes of the Empire to the
interests of the immortal Gods and how the Pax Deorum is dependent
upon him offering sacrifice in fide to the Gods in the same manner as
the legendary founders of Alba Longa and Rome.

Museo dell'Ara Pacis http://en.arapacis. it/
Best photos of the Ara Pacis at Bluffton University:
http://wings. buffalo.edu/ AandL/Maecenas/ rome/ara_ pacis/section_ content
s.html
Article and photos at Bluffton University:
http://www.bluffton .edu/~sullivanm/ italy/rome/ arapacis/ arapacis. html
 


AUC 886 / 133 CE: Birth of Emperor M. Didius Salvius Julianus Severus
"Meanwhile Didius Julianus, at once an insatiate money-getter and a
wanton spendthrift, who was always eager for revolution and hence had
been exiled by Commodus to his native city of Mediolanum, now, when
he heard of the death of Pertinax, hastily made his way to the camp,
and, standing at the gates of the enclosure, made bids to the
soldiers for the rule over the Romans. Then ensued a most disgraceful
business and one unworthy of Rome." ~ Cassius Dio 74.11.2

In 193 CE the Praetorian Guard became upset with Emperor Pertinax for
his strict military discipline and his economical rule after the
excesses of Commodus. Failing to give the Praetorians an extra
bonus, they murdered Pertinax (28 Mar.) and promised the throne to
the highest bidder. This was Didius Julianus. The legions of Syria,
Panonnia, and Britannia declared their own commanders emperors. All
began to march against Didius in April or May, L. Septimus Severus
from Panonnia arriving first to put an end to Didius on 1 June.
 


Today's thought is from Cicero, De Officiis 2.2
"What, in the name of heaven, is more to be desired than wisdom? What
is more to be prized? What is better for a man, what more worthy of
his nature? Those who seek after it are called philosophers; and
philosophy is nothing else, if one will translate the word into our
idiom, than "the love of wisdom." Wisdom, morever, as the word has
been defined by the philosophers of old, is "the knowledge of things
human and divine and of the causes by which those things are
controlled."

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60827 From: Vestinia, called Vesta Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Re: a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
sorry bout this.
 
I usually forward these on to a group of friends in the SCA. I hit the wrong button :P
 
V

--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Vestinia, called Vesta <optia_vesta@...> wrote:
From: Vestinia, called Vesta <optia_vesta@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] a. d. III Kalendas Februarias: Ara Pacis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 7:03 AM

The Altar of Peace gives us a good idea of how Romans looked and dressed -- it's especially useful for those who research ceremonial clothing, as well as those investigating foundation mythologies.
 
 
------------ --------- --------- --------- ----
 
Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus est:
feriae ex consulto senatus quod eo die ara Pacis Augustae dedicata.

Come, Peace, your graceful tresses wreathed
With laurel of Actium: stay gently in this world.
While we lack enemies, or cause for triumphs:
You'll be a greater glory to our leaders than war.
May the soldier be armed to defend against arms,
And the trumpet blare only for processions.
May the world far and near fear the sons of Aeneas,
And let any land that feared Rome too little, love her.
Priests, add incense to the peaceful flames,
Let a shining sacrifice fall, brow wet with wine,
And ask the Gods who favour pious prayer
That the house that brings peace, may so endure.
~ Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.711-722

AUC 744 / 9 BCE: Dedication of the Ara Pacis Augustae
"When I returned from Spain and Gaul, in the consulship of Tiberius
Nero and Publius Quintilius [13 BCE], after successful operations in
those provinces, the Senate voted in honor of my return the
consecration of an altar to Pax Augusta in the Campus Martius, and on
this altar it ordered the magistrates and priests and Vestal virgins
to make annual sacrifice. Janus Quirinus, which our ancestors ordered
to be closed whenever there was peace, secured by victory, throughout
the whole domain of the Roman people on land and sea, and which,
before my birth is recorded to have been closed but twice in all
since the foundation of the city, the senate ordered to be closed
thrice while I was princeps." ~ Augustus, Res Gestae Divi Augusti
12.2-13

Commissioned by the Senate on 4 July 13 to honor Augustus upon his
triumphal return from Gaul and Hispania, the Ara Pacis Augustae was
dedicated nearly three and a half years later, celebrating the peace
that Augustus had brought to the Empire through his many victories.
The iconography of the altar and its surrounding enclosure depict the
Pax Augusta as a result of the Pax Deorum attained by the Augustan
Restoration of the religio Romana. The altar sits is atop a platform
of eight steps. The altar itself is decorated with a band of friezes
around the top that depicts a procession of sacrificial animals led
by poppae and victimarii. Panels on the lower section are thought to
have depicted a scene from a sacrifice, with another panel depicting
the veiled Vestales Virgines. The inner portion of the enclosing
wall has reliefs of bucraniae, wreathes, and paterae. The panels on
the outside of the enclosing wall link the Augustan regime in the Pax
Deorum in two ways. First in myth, on the front right panel, Aeneas
finding a white sow is taken from Virgil's description in the Aeneid,
thematically linking Augustus as the new founder of the religio
Romana. On the front left panel, Mars and Faustulus flank the
lupercal where Romulus and Remus are seen being suckled by a she-
wolf. This scene was possibly intended to suggest Augustus as the new
Founder of Rome. The rear left panel shows Tellus or Ceres or Pax,
flanked by two Nymphae. Romulus and Remus sit on Her lap;
thematically connecting Her with Livia, as Iulia Augusta, and mother
of Tiberius and Drusus. Another panel on the right rear shows a
female warrior, probably intended to depict Roma or Victoria Augusta,
or Pax, sitting on a pile of captured enemy arms to represent the
peace won through the victories of Augustus.

On the long sides of the enclosing wall are panels of the imperial
family, magistrates, and priests seen in a procession towards the
western entrance to the altar. Augustus leads the procession on the
south side. He is accompanied by his camillus and lictores, followed
by flamines in their distinctive apexes. Next comes Agrippa capite
velite accompanied by his son Gaius. Livia comes next, followed by
Antonia Minor and her husband Drusus with their children. Nero
Claudius Drusus is seen in a military uniform. He was consul and
died that same year as the altar was dedicated. Next is Antonia
Maior with her huband and children. The northern procession has
pontifices, quindecemviri sacris faciundis, and the semptemviri
epulones along with their assistants and other children of the
imperial family. Much of the image of Augustus is now missing. In
the original design he can be seen at the apex of priests and civil
administrators. He leads the procession as both Pontifex Maximus and
Imperator, with his lictors and the flamines maiores behind him, and
as head of a dynasty posed by his several grandchildren on the
panels. The entire scheme of the decoration is then to show Augustus
as the one person who connects the fortunes of the Empire to the
interests of the immortal Gods and how the Pax Deorum is dependent
upon him offering sacrifice in fide to the Gods in the same manner as
the legendary founders of Alba Longa and Rome.

Museo dell'Ara Pacis http://en.arapacis. it/
Best photos of the Ara Pacis at Bluffton University:
http://wings. buffalo.edu/ AandL/Maecenas/ rome/ara_ pacis/section_ content
s.html
Article and photos at Bluffton University:
http://www.bluffton .edu/~sullivanm/ italy/rome/ arapacis/ arapacis. html
 


AUC 886 / 133 CE: Birth of Emperor M. Didius Salvius Julianus Severus
"Meanwhile Didius Julianus, at once an insatiate money-getter and a
wanton spendthrift, who was always eager for revolution and hence had
been exiled by Commodus to his native city of Mediolanum, now, when
he heard of the death of Pertinax, hastily made his way to the camp,
and, standing at the gates of the enclosure, made bids to the
soldiers for the rule over the Romans. Then ensued a most disgraceful
business and one unworthy of Rome." ~ Cassius Dio 74.11.2

In 193 CE the Praetorian Guard became upset with Emperor Pertinax for
his strict military discipline and his economical rule after the
excesses of Commodus. Failing to give the Praetorians an extra
bonus, they murdered Pertinax (28 Mar.) and promised the throne to
the highest bidder. This was Didius Julianus. The legions of Syria,
Panonnia, and Britannia declared their own commanders emperors. All
began to march against Didius in April or May, L. Septimus Severus
from Panonnia arriving first to put an end to Didius on 1 June.
 


Today's thought is from Cicero, De Officiis 2.2
"What, in the name of heaven, is more to be desired than wisdom? What
is more to be prized? What is better for a man, what more worthy of
his nature? Those who seek after it are called philosophers; and
philosophy is nothing else, if one will translate the word into our
idiom, than "the love of wisdom." Wisdom, morever, as the word has
been defined by the philosophers of old, is "the knowledge of things
human and divine and of the causes by which those things are
controlled."


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60828 From: Gallagher Date: 2009-01-30
Subject: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
Salvete
 
We are in need of additional censorial scribes who can read and write either
Spanish and/or French. If you have an interest in serving please drop me a note at
 
spqr753 at msn.com
 
Valete
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60829 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Edictum de Creatione Scribae
Edictum de Creatione Scribae A. Tullia Scholastica rogatrix quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.




                                 EDICTVM DE CREATIONE SCRIBAE

    Ex hoc edicto, C. Petronium Dextrum scribam ad Latinitatem creo.  Nullum ius iurandum poscetur.  

    Hoc edictum statim valet.  

    Datum sub manu mea pridie Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII A.V.C.

    By this edict, I appoint C. Petronius Dexter as scriba for Latinity.  No oath will be required.  

    This edict takes effect immediately.  

    Given under my hand this 31st day of January 2009 C.E.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60830 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
je poserais bien ma candidature
varro
----- Original Message -----
From: Gallagher
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 5:55 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)

Salvete
 
We are in need of additional censorial scribes who can read and write either
Spanish and/or French. If you have an interest in serving please drop me a note at
 
spqr753 at msn.com
 
Valete
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60831 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Pridie Kalendas Februarius: Genita Mana
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
plurimam dicit: Di te servassint semper

Hodie est die pristini Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:
sacra Genetae Manae

Genita Mana

Today's festival is for the Mother of the Lares, Genita Mana. She is
called Lara by Ovid, who also refers to Her as Muta, while others
call Her Tacita. Supposedly, a statue of Her had a cloth placed over
Her mouth as a reminder that Her true name must never be spoken.
Another name for Her is Mania. Votive puppets called Maniae, which
were made of wool, were hung at doorways during Compitalia and
Feralia to honor the Lares and to ward off evil. They were also hung
from trees at the feriae Latinae and other festivals. Another name
for Genita Mania was Iana, or Diana, although this was not the same
Diana of myth. Rather this Diana was the consort of Janus (Dianus).
Janus and Jana, or Janus Matutus and Mater Matuta, were said to be
the birth parents of all the Manes; this is, of all human souls,
living and dead. Genita Mana was considered an Underworld Goddess.
Since Her name could not be spoken, She was often identified with
Greek Hecate, especially as the avenging aspect of Genita Mana. A
reason for this identification may have been due in part to the
similarity of the cultus offered to both.


"Why do they sacrifice a bitch to the Goddess called Genita Mana and
pray that none of the household shall become 'good'?

"Is it because Geneta is a spirit concerned with the generation and
birth of beings that perish? Her name means some such thing as "flux
and birth" of "flowing birth." Accordingly, just as the Greeks
sacrifice a bitch to Hecate, even so do the Romans offer the same
sacrifice to Geneta on behalf of the members of their household. But
Socrotes says that the Argives sacrifice a bitch to Eilioneia by
reason of the ease with which the bitch brings forth its young. But
does the import of the prayer, that none of them shall become 'good,'
refer not to the human members of a household, but to the dogs? For
dogs should be savage and terrifying.

"Or because of the fact that the dead are gracefully called "the
good," are they in veiled language asking in their prayer that none
of their household may die? One should not be surprised at this;
Aristotle, in fact, says that there is written in the treaty of the
Arcadians with the Spartans: "No one shall be made good for rendering
aid to the Spartan party in Tegea;" that is, 'no one shall be put to
death.'" ~ Plutarch, Roman Question 52

"Nocturnal Hecate, who is called at the crossroads throughout the
City, and Avenging Dirae, and Elissa's gods of the dying, hear our
prayers, heed them, and direct your awful powers against those who
deserve it." ~ P. Vergilius Mauro, Aeneis 4.610-612

This darker aspect of Genita Mana is found in defixiones. The primary
example of which comes from Mediolanum Santonum , Aquitania.

"I denounce the persons written below, Lentinus and Tasgillus, so
that they may depart to Pluto. Just as this puppy harmed no one, so
shall they be unable to harm anyone, and so they shall be unable to
win their legal suit. Just as the mother of this puppy was unable to
defend her young, so shall their advocate be unable to defend them,
and thus shall their advocate Atracatetractus Gallara be unable to
plead their case, but, in this way, may their secrets be misled to
the feet of Proserpina. Just as this puppy is turned on its back and
unable to go, so neither may they, just as this puppy is unable to
rise up, may they be able to do so. Just as this puppy is, thus may
they not be seen. Just as this puppy, just as in this tomb its
animal's soul is transformed and silenced, so may they be unable to
rise, and may the pronouncements of Atracatetractus Gallera in their
defense be unable to mislead the opinion of the court with pleas of
secret heirs." ~ CIL 13.11069

Today's festival, however, is not about this darker side of Genita
Mana. There is another side, too, with the use of puppies as a
sacrifice.

"They considered the flesh of suckling canine whelps to be so pure a
meat that they were in the habit of using them as victims even in
their expiatory sacrifices. A young whelp, too, is sacrificed to
Genita Mana; and, at the repasts celebrated in honor of the Gods, it
is still the usage to set the flesh of puppies on table; at the
inaugural feasts, too, of the pontiffs, this dish was in common use,
as we learn from the Comedies of Plautus." ~ C. Plinius Secundus,
Historia Naturalis 29.14

Elsewhere we are told, too, in regard to Hercules, that puppies were
considered to be the sweetest offering to present to the Gods, and
thus it was reserved from certain terrestrial deities. For Genita
Mana, or Hecate, one should leave offerings of meal, honey, and milk
on pottery shards, by night, at a three-way crossroads. (Meat,
whether puppies or otherwise, would only be given for a very special
favor.) This is don on the day before the Kalends of February
because February is the month of purification and for the Romans
purification always begins with sacrifices to the Manes. Tonight we
call upon Genita Mana to intervene in our favor with the Manes.


817 BCE: Death of Anchises at Lavinium.

Perhaps connected to the festival for Genita Mana, today is also the
traditional date for the death of Anchises who was the father of
Aeneas,

Lavinium

Older than Rome, the city of Lavinium was founded by Aeneas, naming
it, some have said, after his Latin wife. It was here that Aeneas
was said to have brought the Penates of Troy, and where he instituted
the worship of Vesta. Afterward Aeneas would come to be worshiped as
Jupiter Indiges at his tomb, the heroon, near the banks of the River
Numicus (Livy 1.2.6; Vergil, Aeneid 1.1-7; Macrobius, Saturnalia
6.2.31).

"And for him the Latins made a hero's shrine with this
inscription, 'God the Earthly Father who directs the stream of the
River Numicus.' There are those who say that this monument was built
by Aeneas for his father Anchises in the year before the battle when
this old man dies. It is an earthen affair, not large, and around it
are trees set out it in rows: well worth seeing." ~ Dionysius of
Halicarnassus 1.64.4-5

It was at Lavinium that the Consules, Praetores, and Magistri Populi
(Dictators) came to sacrifice to the Penates and Vesta each year. At
the extramural sanctuary famed for its thirteen altars. The oldest
altar here once stood alone in the mid-sixth century. It was soon
afterward joined by two more altars. A hundred years later an
additional four altars had joined them. It is, however, near the end
of the fourth century, after Rome had finally defeated the Latin
League and taken control of the Latin shrines, that this sanctuary
was reconstructed, the original altar filled in, but with other
altars added to make twelve. It is about this time, 304 BCE, that
Rome built the heroon of Aeneas near to the sanctuary of thirteen
altars that lies south of Lavinium. Further east of the city was
another extramural sanctuary for Minerva. Originally it was built
around or soon after 500 BCE. Most interesting has been the
discovery of a fossa with over one-hundred terracotta statues,
including one of Minerva. These would seem to have been buried in
the third century, around the same time that the Latin sanctuary of
the thirteen altars fell out of use. Lavinium shared in many of the
same culti Deorum as Rome. It is from Lavinium that the oldest
inscription bearing the name of Ceres is to be found, and also the
earliest mention of Castor and Pollux, from a bronze plaque among the
thirteen altars. Inside the city itself were culti Deorum for Vesta,
Lavinium being the only other city known for certain to have Vestal
Virgins, for Juturna, the Penates, Liber, Anna Perenna, as well as
for Ceres and the Dioscuri.


AUC 717 / 36 BCE: Birth of Antonia Minor, daughter of Marcus Antonius
and Octavia, wife of Germanicus and later of Claudius.


Our thought for today comes from Marcus Aurelius, Medidations 8.8

"Thou hast not leisure or ability to read. But thou hast leisure or
ability to check arrogance: thou hast leisure to be superior to
pleasure and pain: thou hast leisure to be superior to love of fame,
and not to be vexed at stupid and ungrateful people, nay even to care
for them."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60832 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: de Romanis
Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.

The recent discourses about this second Nova Roma have led me to some thought.
For years we have spoken, in this forum particularly, about other Roman
communities; we have ridiculed them, we have cursed them, and even gone so far
as to have created a page specifically dedicated to, as I recall, splinter
groups, spinoffs, et al. Yet as I have pondered it, for all the derision that
Nova Roma en masse has thrown at them, the error -- the vitium, as it were --
rests not with them, but with this group. We have forgotten something so
important, something so obvious, something so grand, that the very fact that we
have forgotten it is shameful only upon us.

There is no question of our spiritual ancestors. Nor is there any question of
their greatness. The very fact that their name strikes so well with nearly any
person of even rudimentary education is a testament to that; for as much, let us
at least be thankful. There is equally no question about the breadth of their
influence, both in the spatial respect of their own time, and their influence
throughout time. We must, then, as Romans ourselves, be very aware of the
footprint our ancestors left, and the size of that footprint. In our awareness
of this, it bears upon us to realise this important thing I mentioned previously.

So what, then, is this thing that is so important? In realising the footprint
left to us, and the size of that footprint, one surely cannot help but realise
the fact that we certainly cannot be the only descendants of Rome; we must
realise that there are others; we must realise that these groups *are* those
others. These are our brothers; these are our sisters: indeed, they are no less
Roman than are we. And as piety and indeed virtue itself require, we must
welcome our siblings with arms as open as the door to a Tribune's home. We
should embrace them warmly, and maintain such warm relations with them. If
indeed we seek to advance the goal of bringing Rome into the modern world,
should we not, all Romans, wherever we are, be Romans together? Truly, and
without question, we are all Romans, descendants of the same Rome, a fact we
have forgotten. A Roman is a Roman, be that Roman in Rome, Russia, Canada, or
in Brazil: we are Romans. Let us not split the hairs of Rome; doing so only
makes one bald.

It rests upon us each as individuals to welcome our fraternal colleagues. That
is a duty which, for the sake of our own Roman nature, we can not afford to
shirk. Even in the darkest days of our ancestry, while a Roman may have felt
himself more Roman than another, all Romans were Romans. Treating the situation
any differently in our own time will serve only to decimate us now as so many
years of civil war did our ancestors. There was but one Rome: there were many
Romans.

And, on an unrelated note, are there not to be four aediles?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60833 From: lhlm75 Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: Censorial Scribes (Spanish and/or French)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>Salvete,
I'm willing to serve as a scribe. I'm fluent and literate in Spanish.
Vale,
Lucia Herennia Mento

>
>
> Salvete
>
> We are in need of additional censorial scribes who can read and
write either
> Spanish and/or French. If you have an interest in serving please
drop me a note at
>
> spqr753 at msn.com
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Censor
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60834 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
L. Livia Plauta Q. Caecilio Metello S.P.D.

I think you are perfectly right when talking about serious
organizations, like SVR, for example.
But obviously you didn't have a look at this "other Nova Roma", a
demential attempt by teenagers whose citizenship application had been
rejected to copy our own Nova Roma.
Just have a look, and you'll see what I mean.

Optime vale,
Livia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Caecilius Metellus"
<postumianus@...> wrote:
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.
>
> The recent discourses about this second Nova Roma have led me to
some thought.
> For years we have spoken, in this forum particularly, about other
Roman
> communities; we have ridiculed them, we have cursed them, and even
gone so far
> as to have created a page specifically dedicated to, as I recall,
splinter
> groups, spinoffs, et al. Yet as I have pondered it, for all the
derision that
> Nova Roma en masse has thrown at them, the error -- the vitium, as
it were --
> rests not with them, but with this group. We have forgotten
something so
> important, something so obvious, something so grand, that the very
fact that we
> have forgotten it is shameful only upon us.
>
> There is no question of our spiritual ancestors. Nor is there any
question of
> their greatness. The very fact that their name strikes so well
with nearly any
> person of even rudimentary education is a testament to that; for as
much, let us
> at least be thankful. There is equally no question about the
breadth of their
> influence, both in the spatial respect of their own time, and their
influence
> throughout time. We must, then, as Romans ourselves, be very aware
of the
> footprint our ancestors left, and the size of that footprint. In
our awareness
> of this, it bears upon us to realise this important thing I
mentioned previously.
>
> So what, then, is this thing that is so important? In realising
the footprint
> left to us, and the size of that footprint, one surely cannot help
but realise
> the fact that we certainly cannot be the only descendants of Rome;
we must
> realise that there are others; we must realise that these groups
*are* those
> others. These are our brothers; these are our sisters: indeed,
they are no less
> Roman than are we. And as piety and indeed virtue itself require,
we must
> welcome our siblings with arms as open as the door to a Tribune's
home. We
> should embrace them warmly, and maintain such warm relations with
them. If
> indeed we seek to advance the goal of bringing Rome into the modern
world,
> should we not, all Romans, wherever we are, be Romans together?
Truly, and
> without question, we are all Romans, descendants of the same Rome,
a fact we
> have forgotten. A Roman is a Roman, be that Roman in Rome, Russia,
Canada, or
> in Brazil: we are Romans. Let us not split the hairs of Rome;
doing so only
> makes one bald.
>
> It rests upon us each as individuals to welcome our fraternal
colleagues. That
> is a duty which, for the sake of our own Roman nature, we can not
afford to
> shirk. Even in the darkest days of our ancestry, while a Roman may
have felt
> himself more Roman than another, all Romans were Romans. Treating
the situation
> any differently in our own time will serve only to decimate us now
as so many
> years of civil war did our ancestors. There was but one Rome:
there were many
> Romans.
>
> And, on an unrelated note, are there not to be four aediles?
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60836 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: prid. kal. Feb. - Hecate
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!


"Jason bathed his tender body reverently in the sacred river; and
round him he placed a dark robe [and] he cut the throat of the sheep,
and duly placed the carcase above; and he kindled the logs placing
fire beneath, and poured over them mingled libations, calling on
Hecate to aid him in the contests. And when he had called on her he
drew back; and she heard him, the dread goddess, from the uttermost
depths and came to the sacrifice of Aeson's son [Jason]; and round
her horrible serpents twined themselves among the oak boughs; and
there was a gleam of countless torches; and sharply howled around
her the hounds of hell. All the meadows trembled at her step; and
the nymphs that haunt the marsh and the river shrieked, all who
dance around that mead of Amarantian Phasis. And fear seized Aeson's
son, but not even so did he turn round as his feet bore him forth,
till he came back to his comrades." - Apollonius
Rhodius, "Argonautica"

"Hecate whom Zeus the son of Cronos honored above all. He gave her
splendid gifts, to have a share of the earth and the unfruitful sea.
She received honour also in starry heaven, and is honoured
exceedingly by the deathless gods. For to this day, whenever any one
of men on earth offers rich sacrifices and prays for favour
according to custom, he calls upon Hecate. Great honour comes full
easily to him whose prayers the goddess receives favourably, and she
bestows wealth upon him; for the power surely is with her. For as
many as were born of Earth and Ocean amongst all these she has her
due portion.

The son of Cronos did her no wrong nor took anything away of all that
was her portion among the former Titan gods: but she holds, as
the division was at the first from the beginning, privilege both
in earth, and in heaven, and in sea. Also, because she is an
only child, the goddess receives not less honour, but much more
still, for Zeus honours her. Whom she will she greatly aids and
advances: she sits by worshipful kings in judgement, and in the
assembly whom she will is distinguished among the people. And
when men arm themselves for the battle that destroys men, then
the goddess is at hand to give victory and grant glory readily to
whom she will. Good is she also when men contend at the games,
for there too the goddess is with them and profits them: and he
who by might and strength gets the victory wins the rich prize
easily with joy, and brings glory to his parents.

And she is good to stand by horsemen, whom she will: and to those
whose business is in the grey discomfortable sea, and who pray to
Hecate and the loud-crashing Earth-Shaker, easily the glorious
goddess gives great catch, and easily she takes it away as soon
as seen, if so she will. She is good in the byre with Hermes to
increase the stock. The droves of kine and wide herds of goats
and flocks of fleecy sheep, if she will, she increases from a
few, or makes many to be less. So, then. albeit her mother's
only child, she is honoured amongst all the deathless gods.
And the son of Cronos made her a nurse of the young who after
that day saw with their eyes the light of all-seeing Dawn. So
from the beginning she is a nurse of the young, and these are her
honours." - Hesiod, "Theogony" II 404-452

Today was held in honor of the goddess Hecate (or Hekate). Hecate
is known by several epithets, most popularly:

1. Hekate Propylaia - "the one before the gate" - a guardian goddess
whose statue was often at the entrance to major temples of other
deities, primarily Demeter, or at the entrance to private homes.

2. Hekate Propolos - "the attendant who leads" - a personal
attendant and guide, the most famous example of which is when She
leads Persephone back to Demeter from the Underworld.

3. Hekate Phosphoros - "the light bringer" - a torch-bearer
(probably related to her role as guide, especially one who guides and
attends initiates at the Mysteries, such as the Eleusinian
Mysteries); while other deities carried a single torch, Hekate was
most prominently associated with torch-bearing, and unlike the
others, She usually carried two; though later sources identify Her
as a moon goddess (and say the torches are a symbol of Her
connection with night and the moonlight).

4. Hekate Kourotrophos - "child's nurse" - a title applied to nearly
all Greek goddesses and to a few Greek gods; specifically applied to
those who govern childbirth; it may refer to a maternal caring for
all mortal beings and may possibly refer to caring for women
specifically.

Hecate was most often portrayed as a young woman holding two torches
and accompanied by a black dog; sometimes she was depicted as three
young women standing with their backs together, symbolic of her
guardianship of crossroads. The story of Hecate's black dog is a
very cool one. First, here's Ovid:

"Troy fell and Priam too. His ill-starred wife lost after all
besides her human shape; her weird new barking terrified the breeze
on foreign shores where the long Hellespont contracts in
narrows...There lie across the strait from Phrygia, where Ilium was,
the provinces of Thrace, where Polymestor had his wealthy palace. To
him in secret Praim gave in charge his young son Polydorus to be
reared. When Troy's fair fortune fell, that wicked king took his
sharp sword and slit his charge's throat...Upon the beach cast up
she saw her Polydorus' corpse and the huge wounds the Thracian
knives had made...Hecuba, rage linked with grief, oblivious of her
years made her way to Polymestor, author of that foul murder, and
sought an audience...She attacked the king and dug her fingers in
his eyes, his treacherous eyes, and gouged his eyeballs
out...Incensed to see their king's calamity, the Thracians started
to attack the queen with sticks and stones, but she snapped at the
stones, snarling, and when her lips were set to form words and she
tried to speak, she barked. The place remains today, named from what
happened there. Then still remembering her ancient ills, she howled
in sorrow through the land of Thrace. That fate of hers stirred pity
in the hearts of friend and foe, Trojans and Greeks alike, and all
the gods as well - all: Juno too, Jove's wife and sister, did
herself declare the tragic end of Hekabe unfair." - Ovid,
Metamorphoses 14.430 & 561ff

So. The king of Troy, Priam, had a wife named Hekabe. After Troy
fell, she was given to Ulysses as a trophy of war. On the coast of
Thrace she found the body of her youngest son Polydorus murdered by
Polymestor,the man given charge to protect him; she went crazy and
started running around barking like a dog, attacking and brutally
injuring Polymestor. She was subdued, but instead of becoming a
slave she threw herself into the Hellespont (the area is known as
Cynaeus - "of the Dog" - now); Hecate pulled her out and took charge
of her. She accompanies Hecate on her journeys at night, striking
terror into humans with her unearthly howling and barking. Woof.

Valete!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60837 From: belovedmetrobius Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Salvete Omnes,

I agree with what you've eloquently said. When I grew up, the only
people I ever heard say anything about being Roman were my mom and her
family. Once exposed to the concept of Romanitas and organizations on
the internet, my horizons broadened beyond one's ancestral claims. I
consider anyone who is interested in and adores or somehow relates to
the Romans as a modern Roman. For me that includes people who are a
part of no organization whatsoever, as I believe there are many like
that...many who just aren't on the internet much. For instance, there
was an incident in my life where a man from Spain saw me reading some
Roman book and began to talk to me about Cicero, whose popular
biography I think had just been released. I doubt he was part of any
organization, though could be wrong. Another more recent time I was in
a toy store and an elderly gentlemen quized me on my SPQR tattoo and
then congratulated me for it and then walked away. My assumption is if
he was a Nova Roman or something else, he would have mentioned it. I'm
almost positive (though again can be wrong) my old high school Latin
teacher who made learning Latin fun--who took us to see the release of
Gladiator on an IMAX screen, and took us to a production of Coriolanus
at the Shakespeare theater, was the first to get out "ghetto" school
that was not seen as classy as others into the Certamen competitions,
is not a member of any group (haven't seen him at least heh). Yet,
these people clearly have the spirit. And I think that's what matters.
You see this sort of issue in indigenous groups where people
constantly claim ancestry or, for example, Indian-ness. There will be
those who say it's a matter of heart and those who will say it's a
matter of blood. At the end of the day, no one can change what you
believe except yourself.

Bene Valete,
M. Sempronia Pulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Caecilius Metellus"
<postumianus@...> wrote:
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.
>
> The recent discourses about this second Nova Roma have led me to
some thought.
> For years we have spoken, in this forum particularly, about other Roman
> communities; we have ridiculed them, we have cursed them, and even
gone so far
> as to have created a page specifically dedicated to, as I recall,
splinter
> groups, spinoffs, et al. Yet as I have pondered it, for all the
derision that
> Nova Roma en masse has thrown at them, the error -- the vitium, as
it were --
> rests not with them, but with this group. We have forgotten
something so
> important, something so obvious, something so grand, that the very
fact that we
> have forgotten it is shameful only upon us.
>
> There is no question of our spiritual ancestors. Nor is there any
question of
> their greatness. The very fact that their name strikes so well with
nearly any
> person of even rudimentary education is a testament to that; for as
much, let us
> at least be thankful. There is equally no question about the
breadth of their
> influence, both in the spatial respect of their own time, and their
influence
> throughout time. We must, then, as Romans ourselves, be very aware
of the
> footprint our ancestors left, and the size of that footprint. In
our awareness
> of this, it bears upon us to realise this important thing I
mentioned previously.
>
> So what, then, is this thing that is so important? In realising the
footprint
> left to us, and the size of that footprint, one surely cannot help
but realise
> the fact that we certainly cannot be the only descendants of Rome;
we must
> realise that there are others; we must realise that these groups
*are* those
> others. These are our brothers; these are our sisters: indeed, they
are no less
> Roman than are we. And as piety and indeed virtue itself require,
we must
> welcome our siblings with arms as open as the door to a Tribune's
home. We
> should embrace them warmly, and maintain such warm relations with
them. If
> indeed we seek to advance the goal of bringing Rome into the modern
world,
> should we not, all Romans, wherever we are, be Romans together?
Truly, and
> without question, we are all Romans, descendants of the same Rome, a
fact we
> have forgotten. A Roman is a Roman, be that Roman in Rome, Russia,
Canada, or
> in Brazil: we are Romans. Let us not split the hairs of Rome; doing
so only
> makes one bald.
>
> It rests upon us each as individuals to welcome our fraternal
colleagues. That
> is a duty which, for the sake of our own Roman nature, we can not
afford to
> shirk. Even in the darkest days of our ancestry, while a Roman may
have felt
> himself more Roman than another, all Romans were Romans. Treating
the situation
> any differently in our own time will serve only to decimate us now
as so many
> years of civil war did our ancestors. There was but one Rome: there
were many
> Romans.
>
> And, on an unrelated note, are there not to be four aediles?
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60838 From: Q. Caecilius Metellus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Q Caecilius Metellus L Liuiae Plautae salutem.

In mentioning "serious organisations", I think you well understood exactly where
my statements were directed. I have indeed had a look at the other, and I did
not mean to insinuate that I specifically directed my commentary toward them.
However, we ought not be exclusionary there. It would certainly serve us better
to educate rather than to ostracise. Despite how much one may feel the "other
Nova Roma" to be ridiculous, there may be among them more serious individuals
than we seem to be willing to credit, and so too we should still open our arms
to them. Amongst Romans, we each have a responsibility, in my opinion, to
educate each other; should we not strive to educate them as well? As I think
even the wisest might say, there is always something to be learned from another;
closing one's mind to it lessens only the one closed. I think we all here seek
to grow within ourselves, and it would seem to me best to do that with a mind open.

> L. Livia Plauta Q. Caecilio Metello S.P.D.
>
> I think you are perfectly right when talking about serious
> organizations, like SVR, for example.
> But obviously you didn't have a look at this "other Nova Roma", a
> demential attempt by teenagers whose citizenship application had been
> rejected to copy our own Nova Roma.
> Just have a look, and you'll see what I mean.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60839 From: Lucia Livia Plauta Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
L. Livia Plauta Q. Caecilio Metello sal.

What you say makes sense, but it would require NR to change its
policy toward underage applicants.

At present, what happens is that we reject them, they walk away
frustrated and resentful, and we lose potential future citizens.
It would be very hard to "educate" people we've already rejected.

I think a solution might be not to reject outright underage
applicants, but to "put them up for adoption", and allow them to join
us, but only with an adult NR citizen as their guardian.

Unfortunately that's not allowed by the current constitution.

Optime vale,
Livia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Caecilius Metellus"
<postumianus@...> wrote:
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus L Liuiae Plautae salutem.
>
> In mentioning "serious organisations", I think you well understood
exactly where
> my statements were directed. I have indeed had a look at the
other, and I did
> not mean to insinuate that I specifically directed my commentary
toward them.
> However, we ought not be exclusionary there. It would certainly
serve us better
> to educate rather than to ostracise. Despite how much one may feel
the "other
> Nova Roma" to be ridiculous, there may be among them more serious
individuals
> than we seem to be willing to credit, and so too we should still
open our arms
> to them. Amongst Romans, we each have a responsibility, in my
opinion, to
> educate each other; should we not strive to educate them as well?
As I think
> even the wisest might say, there is always something to be learned
from another;
> closing one's mind to it lessens only the one closed. I think we
all here seek
> to grow within ourselves, and it would seem to me best to do that
with a mind open.
>
> > L. Livia Plauta Q. Caecilio Metello S.P.D.
> >
> > I think you are perfectly right when talking about serious
> > organizations, like SVR, for example.
> > But obviously you didn't have a look at this "other Nova Roma", a
> > demential attempt by teenagers whose citizenship application had
been
> > rejected to copy our own Nova Roma.
> > Just have a look, and you'll see what I mean.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60840 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Salve Plauta,

Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> writes:

> I think a solution might be not to reject outright underage
> applicants, but to "put them up for adoption", and allow them to join
> us, but only with an adult NR citizen as their guardian.

This would expose Nova Roma to serious legal problems. I'm not sure
how EU countries would view this, but I am sure that a number of
states in the US would take an extremely dim view of us attempting to
act in loco parentis for minor children.

> Unfortunately that's not allowed by the current constitution.

And I'm sure the reason has a lot to do with our legal liability.
Right now a minor must have at least one parent in Nova Roma in order
to join NR. That is a policy that I personally confirmed as legally
sound when I was consul, and it's a policy that I think we must
continue as long as we're operating in the United States.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60841 From: Stefn Ullerius Venator Piperbarbus Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Ave Metellus et salvete omnes;

I liked and understood your essay.

I have a similar view, which is why I'll write as a private citizen of
Nova Roma: greet the other folks politely, inform them of our history
a bit and invite them to look at our website, with links to our
annals, Constitution and other such information.

I like to leave the official communications to others.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60842 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Q. Valerius omnibus sal.

I very much appreciate the epistle of Metellus and the ideas of
Venator. I think some people don't realize that Nova Roma is not the
be all and end all of Roman religion. It's just one organization among
several which is trying to recreate Rome. We should all be working
together, bound by our Romanitas, with the humility that comes from
knowing that *none* of us have Roma... We can visit, but it has lost
its Romanitas...

Di nos omnes custodiant.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60843 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Salve Marine
 
A very sound position on your part. To do otherwise would certainly also run the risk of Nova Roma being labeled as somehow a whacked out child stealing cult in those parts of the salacious tittle-tattle media. Besides which a republican Roman would have looked very askance at the "state" taking this role upon itself. In respect of the parents of the minor, who could knows if parental permission had been truly granted for the minor to join Nova Roma? If it had been refused and for the parents then to find out that their offspring had defied them and joined Nova Roma and been accepted by us knowing they were a minor and parceled out to new "parents", well I could well imagine a dearth of negative publicity.
 
Vale bene
Cn. Iulius Caesar.

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: de Romanis

Salve Plauta,

Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@...> writes:

> I
think a solution might be not to reject outright underage
> applicants,
but to "put them up for adoption", and allow them to join
> us, but only
with an adult NR citizen as their guardian.

This would expose Nova Roma to serious legal problems.  I'm not sure 
how EU countries would view this, but I am sure that a number of 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 60844 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-01-31
Subject: Re: de Romanis
Salvete,
 
Well, we could have a separate list for minors only, say from ages 12 to 17. They would not be members, but they could get information from us about ancient Rome and all things roman. That way we fan the flame would out letting the fire consumed us, i.e., keep them interested until they are of age to join us and not be accused of "adopting" them or recruiting them. We simply allow them a place to come and ask their questions. We ask nothing of them. We do not inquire into their own private lives. That comes when they are of age and can join us should they want to. We certainly cannot ask them while they are underage. We just share information and nothing more.
 
Valete in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
 


--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: de Romanis
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 7:36 PM

Salve Marine
 
A very sound position on your part. To do otherwise would certainly also run the risk of Nova Roma being labeled as somehow a whacked out child stealing cult in those parts of the salacious tittle-tattle media. Besides which a republican Roman would have looked very askance at the "state" taking this role upon itself. In respect of the parents of the minor, who could knows if parental permission had been truly granted for the minor to join Nova Roma? If it had been refused and for the parents then to find out that their offspring had defied them and joined Nova Roma and been accepted by us knowing they were a minor and parceled out to new "parents", well I could well imagine a dearth of negative publicity.
 
Vale bene
Cn. Iulius Caesar.

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: de Romanis

Salve Plauta,

Lucia Livia Plauta <cases@freemail. hu> writes:

> I think a solution might be not to reject outright underage
> applicants, but to "put them up for adoption", and allow them to join
> us, but only with an adult NR citizen as their guardian.

This would expose Nova Roma to serious legal problems.  I'm not sure 
how EU countries would view this, but I am sure that a number of