Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Geb 17-19, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61377 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61378 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61379 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61380 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61381 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61382 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61383 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61384 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61385 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61386 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61387 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61388 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Jews and Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61389 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61390 From: Chantal Gaudiano Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61391 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Jews and Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61392 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61393 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61394 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61397 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61398 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61399 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61400 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61401 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: R: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61402 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61404 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61405 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61406 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61407 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61408 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61409 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61410 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61411 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61412 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61413 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61414 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61415 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61416 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61417 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61418 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61419 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61420 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: gaudeamus in Quirinalium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61421 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61422 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61423 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61424 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61425 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61426 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61427 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61428 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61429 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61430 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61431 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61432 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61433 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61434 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61435 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61436 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61437 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61438 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61439 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61440 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61441 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: to onibus SPD
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61442 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61443 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61444 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61445 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61446 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61447 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61448 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61449 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61450 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61451 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: gaudeamus in Quirinalium
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61452 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61453 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61454 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61455 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61456 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61457 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61458 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61459 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61460 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61461 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Cato resurgans...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61462 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61463 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61464 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61465 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61466 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61467 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61468 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato resurgans...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61469 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61470 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61471 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61472 From: Ellen Catalina Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61473 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61474 From: Ellen Catalina Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61475 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61476 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61477 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61478 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Jews and Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61479 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61480 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61481 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61482 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: a. d. XII Kalendas Martias: Parentalia; Hersilia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61483 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61484 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61485 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61486 From: M. Cocceius Firmus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61487 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61488 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61490 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61491 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61492 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61493 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61494 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61495 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61497 From: Gaius Aurelius Vindex Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Incontro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61498 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61499 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61500 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61501 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61502 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61503 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61504 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61505 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61506 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61507 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61508 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61509 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61510 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61511 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61513 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61514 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61515 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61516 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61517 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61518 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61519 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61520 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61521 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61522 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61523 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61524 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61525 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61526 From: lucia_herennia75 Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61527 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61528 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61529 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61530 From: Daniel M Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61531 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61532 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61533 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61534 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61535 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61536 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61537 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61538 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61539 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61540 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61541 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Sodalitas Christiana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61542 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61543 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61544 From: Vaughn Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61545 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61546 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: a. d. XI Kalendas Martias: Battle of Lugdunum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61547 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61548 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61549 From: Quintus Fabius Labeo Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61550 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61551 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61552 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61553 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61554 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61555 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61556 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61557 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61377 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Salve Firmus,

> And I oppose it. I see no need to bar mention of other religions.
>
> Firstly, they are going to come up in historical discussion anyway
so
> a prohibition would result in uneasy gaps.
>
> Secondly, as several reasonable and responsible postings by
Christians
> and by Heathens have demonstrated, its perfectly possible to discuss
> other religions as relevant, including any historically attested
> violence, defacement of temples, rape & pillage, without anyone
> needing to feel that mention of historical facts is in any way a
> slight against them personally, or something that needs to be
declared
> taboo or denied.

Well said. A little self restraint, leaving emotions out of the
conversation and sticking to factual discussions go a long way.

Vale,

L. Julia Aquila


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M. Cocceius Firmus <nantonos@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Aquilia
>
> Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:48:25 AM, you wrote:
>
> TFA> I support the proposal of Titus Annaeus Regulus
> TFA>
> TFA> Why don't we simply agree not to mention cults other than the
RR
> TFA> as suggested in the Praetorian Reminder ?
>
> And I oppose it. I see no need to bar mention of other religions.
>
> Firstly, they are going to come up in historical discussion anyway
so
> a prohibition would result in uneasy gaps.
>
> Secondly, as several reasonable and responsible postings by
Christians
> and by Heathens have demonstrated, its perfectly possible to discuss
> other religions as relevant, including any historically attested
> violence, defacement of temples, rape & pillage, without anyone
> needing to feel that mention of historical facts is in any way a
> slight against them personally, or something that needs to be
declared
> taboo or denied.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> M. Cocceius Firmus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61378 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Salve, Lentule,
 
Your words could not be truer and I sincerely thank you for them. 
 
You know, for all the defense of our history here, we Christians also must reconcile ourselves to the truth: that much of what we have done and believed for more than 2,000 years does not have its genesis in the Galilee, but near the Tiber. 
 
Only recently have we admitted that some aspects of our past, especially persecutions, have disgraced us. We need to extend those admissions -- and apologies -- to non-monotheistic people as well.
 
Vale bene,
L. Aemilia
(more interested in what's under sopra Minerva)


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:23 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: (unknown)

Cn. Lentulus Ap. Tullio Marcello Catoni senatori sal.


>>> How I wish Nova Romans could manage to get along better
then they have been doing of late. <<<


As of late, this forum was an example of a civilized and noble discussion group, so we are doing quite well.

The problem is that now a Nova Roman is considering his resignation who was one of our best citizens, an example of the idea of Nova Roma, and a symbol of how one can be Roman and Christian in the same time.

I don't say Cato is perfect, though: I think he became too sensitive and defensive, it's true. So it is also his fault what happened, not only the fault of his adversaries.

We must find a solution of the question of Roman Christianity and Christian Romanitas.

There are some who think it is a paradox term, but it isn't. From the 1st century CE there were Christians even in senatorial and consular families, we know of a Christian consul under Domitian e.g., who was also member of the imperial family.

I would like to see Nova Roma coming finally into the right conclusion that Christianity is one of the several sub-religions of Rome. Christianity started as a Jewish sect, but quickly became a Roman cult.

Christians who respect the Roman religion and acknowledge the state religion of Nova Roma have their reserved place among us, what's more, they are most welcome among us, as living Roman tradition.

Many practitioners tend to forget that the Catholic and Ortodox Churches are the most living element of all of the Roman traditions, their rituals and liturgy incorporated a vast many things from the polytheist Roman religion, the seats and positions of these churches, their entire structure and organization, their doctrines etc all are almost the same as they were under the Roman Empire, and we can like or dislike them, they still are directly Roman.

When you attend a mass you see a living piece of original Roman religion, moves and words, gestures and rites from the age of the Scipiones, Fabii, Curii and Camilli.

Who could not value this? Who could miss it? Who could dare to say they have no place in a restored Rome? A Roman revivalits organization certainly can not.



CVRATE VT VALEATIS!



Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae
Interpres Linguae Hungaricae
Accensus Consulum M. Curiatii Complutensis et M. Iulii Severi
Scriba Praetoris P. Memmii Albucii
Scriba Censorum Ti. Galerii Paulini et C. Popillii Laenatis
Scriba Aedilis Curulis Cn. Iulii Caesaris
Scriba Rogatricis A. Tulliae Scholasticae
Scriba Interpretis Linguae Latinae A. Tulliae Scholasticae
------------ --------- --------- --------- ----
Magister Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Dominus Factionis Russatae


Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61379 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve, Firme,
 
Many, many thanks for your kind words. I guess the point is, we don't help ourselves as Christians or as people by being strident and insistent on others following us.
 
Frankly, if a man or woman is caught in a burning building or comes under fire, you don't ask about his or her religion. You go get him/her. That's the way Nova Romans should think, IMHO.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M. Cocceius Firmus
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:54 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve Aemilia,

Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 3:28:08 AM, you wrote:

LD> Varro, if I misunderstood you, I apologize.
LD>
LD> You know, friends, Christian though I am, I cannot imagine Rome
LD> without its gods and would never seek to marginalize them; that
LD> would betray history. When NR becomes a Christianized version of
LD> the republic, this Christian is out.

I just wanted to thank you for your timely intervention. Nothing so
positive as a good example! to show that one can be a good Roman and
also a good Christian.

--
Best regards,
M. Cocceius Firmus

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61380 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Salve Varro,
 
<looking around> Well, this Christian doesn't believe you're dead, but thinks you deserve all the respect in the world.
 
Vale bene,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:31 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

you're right pagan is a chistain word but i use it,
 
& because we lack of a better word
2 because doing that i say to christains, you believe we are dead, we are alive!
 
varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

Historically, it meant country dweller in pre-christian times. As a religious term, it is a Christian coinage and became their religious designation for a superstitious backwards redneck hick. In that sense, it is similar to the early religious usage, again a Christian invention, of the term heathen (except heathen also carries a satanic connotation in the early usages).

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 1:37 AM

Salve,

Why do you think the word "pagan" comes with a negative, insulting connotation?
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Lyn Dowling wrote:
Salve, Varro,
 
I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova Romans because it comes with a negative, insulting connotation. But regardless of what non-monotheists call themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If I did, I wouldn't be here, would I?
 
The people who bother me are the people who believe in nothing save themselves.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

AS  christians left no place for pagans in rome (and after all, Rome was founded as a pagan state isn't it) whose state religion was the religio, they can't find astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they fear the pagans must leave one time more
 
i see the fear at the side of the pagans not at the side of the christians
Varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve Lentulus,

> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.

Well said.

> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,

I agree.

> I very much hope he reconsider this.
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.

I agree. He will be held to the same expectations and conduct in
accordance with Roman Virtues.

Vale,

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@ ...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.
>
>
> Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best
fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the
faith of many good Romans.
>
> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.
>
> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST
BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.
>
> I very much hope he reconsider this.
>
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.
>
>
> Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.
>
>
> --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato quirites SPD
>
>
>
> Salvete.
>
>
>
> I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
and any and all positions I
>
> hold as scribe.
>
>
>
> I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
current sole Curule Aedile.
>
>
>
> I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
regarding me contained in any
>
> medium whatsoever immediately.
>
>
>
> For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure.
>
>
>
> "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
>
>
>
> Valete
>
>
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
>
> La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> antispam e messenger integrato.
> http://it.mail. yahoo.com/ Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ 
>


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Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/17/09 07:07:00

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61381 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
 
I'm in Brevard County, Fla, home of Kennedy Space Center and a few remaining throwbacks to a less glorious era.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia Mamerca


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annia Minucia Marcella
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:00 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve,

Where are you?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@.. .> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> Wiccans around here tread gently and Pagan Pride Day would be
really
> unlikely. A few years ago, a perfectly nice Wiccan lady was asked
to
offer
> the benediction before a local city council meeting and the
county
nearly
> exploded. She ended up taking herself out of the event.
>
> See, a lot of us remember when the same things would have
happened
with a
> Catholic or Jew.
>
> Vale,
>
ld
>
>
> "And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that
time there was no one
> left to speak up."
>
>
>
_____
>
> From:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com]
On Behalf
> Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009
9:47 PM
> To:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
>
>
>
>
Salve,
>
> hmmm...interesting. The vast majority of Pagans don't
mind the term.
> Does your Wiccan friend ever go to a Pagan Pride
Day?
>
> I will point out that most Heathens, though technically
pagan, rarely
> ever self-identify as pagan. So I can see the point of
view your
> friend has. Heathens do attend Pagan Pride Days from time to
time, hehe.
>
> When I think 'pagan' I tend to picture a
wiccan.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
ps.com, "Lyn
>
Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > First, acquaintances who have held Wiccan and similar
beliefs
loathe the
> > word. Their choice, so friends refrain from
using it.
> >
> > Second, I really believe that in some
instances it has a connotation
> of a
> > sort of wild-eyed,
irrational idol-worship. Frankly, I don't give
a damn
> > about who
or what anyone worships. But if they or others think that
>
certain
> > words, including "pagan," are insulting; or if it gives a
false
> impression
> > to someone who doesn't try to understand,
I don't use the word.
> It's too
> > easily misconstrued.
> >
> > It's not PC. It's respect. I'm neither here to insult anyone
nor in
> it for a
> > fight.
> >
> >
vale,
> > L.A.M.
> > (and if you prefer to be called "pagan,"
that's fine too)
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On
Behalf
> > Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> > Sent: Monday,
February 16, 2009 8:37 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> >
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Why do you think the word
"pagan" comes with a negative, insulting
> > connotation?
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > - Annia Minucia
Marcella
> >
> >
> >
> >
href="http://minucia.">http://minucia. <http://minucia. <http://minucia. ciarin.com>
ciarin.com>
>
ciarin.com
> >
> >
> > Lyn Dowling wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve, Varro,
> >
> > I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova
Romans
> because
> > it comes with a negative, insulting
connotation. But regardless of
what
> > non-monotheists call
themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If
> I did, I
> >
wouldn't be here, would I?
> >
> > The people who bother me
are the people who believe in nothing save
> > themselves.
> >
> > Vale,
> > L. Aemilia
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
>
[mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On
Behalf
> > Of philippe cardon
> > Sent: Monday, February 16,
2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> >
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AS christians left no place for pagans
in rome (and after all,
Rome was
> > founded as a pagan state isn't
it) whose state religion was the
religio,
> > they can't find
astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they
> fear the
> >
pagans must leave one time more
> >
> > i see the fear at the
side of the pagans not at the side of the
> christians
> >
Varo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
L Julia Aquila <mailto:dis_ pensible@ >
> > To:
Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou
>
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com> ps.com
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: R:
[Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> > Salve
Lentulus,
> >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part of one's
Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman
thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of Roman
tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the gods that
favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700 years now.
> >
> > Well said.
> >
> > > CATO
LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > > I very much hope he reconsider this.
> > > I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> >
> > I agree. He will be
held to the same expectations and conduct in
> > accordance with Roman
Virtues.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Julia
Aquila
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
<mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> ps.com,
"Cn.
> > Cornelius Lentulus"
> > <cn_corn_lent@ >
wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus
sal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yesterday I made
the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
> > to share this
when I see that one of our most prominent and best
> > fellow citizens
is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
> > not leave peace
to him speaking about his faith that was also the
> > faith of many
good Romans.
> > >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part
of one's Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right
and Roman thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of
Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the
gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700
years now.
> > >
> > > CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a
very bad omen, and it is the MOST
> > BIGGEST loss of our citizenry
since our history.
> > >
> > > I very much hope he
reconsider this.
> > >
> > > I ask Cato's every friend
and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Without his double dactyles this
forum will be not the same place.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@> ha
scritto:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato quirites SPD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hereby resign my
citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
> > and any and all
positions I
> > >
> > > hold as scribe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I apologize to my
fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
> > current sole Curule
Aedile.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
> > regarding me contained in any
> > >
> > > medium
whatsoever immediately.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct
pleasure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaius
Equitius Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
> > >
> > > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> > > antispam e messenger integrato.
> > >
href="http://it.mail.">http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. yahoo.com/>
yahoo.com/>
>
yahoo.com/Â Â Â Â Â Â
> Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > -----------
> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé
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mail.
> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos
services n'a été détecté.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by
AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955
- Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> > 06:55:00
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming
message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237
/ Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> >
06:55:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> No
virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG -
www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release
Date:
02/16/09
> 06:55:00
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/17/09 07:07:00

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61382 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Laenas Mai9or sal.

>>Let me reming Laenas and Paulinus our two censors, that in Europe
there are very few to zero legal pagan organizations while in the
U.S. pagan and atheists living in a Christian majority country must
sometimes hide their beliefs. Nova Roma is a haven for us. It is our
place<<

Please, you do not need to remind me of anything, madame.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61383 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

Florida is the pagan capital of the country, imo. That's where I first learned of paganism and became wiccan. I was in Broward County, famous for screwing up the presidential election hehe. Orlando has tons of pagans. Ft. Lauderdale too. Plenty of pagans as well as a good amount of heathen folk in Tampa(they have the Tampa Bay Heathen Association,  and I still have my TBHA t-shirt hehe). When I lived in Ft. Myers I had found an awesome Pagan park and campsite where anyone could hold rituals and drum circles and picnics, etc.

Good times. Sucks to be in Brevard I guess.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


Lyn Dowling wrote:

Salve,
 
I'm in Brevard County, Fla, home of Kennedy Space Center and a few remaining throwbacks to a less glorious era.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia Mamerca


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Annia Minucia Marcella
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:00 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve,

Where are you?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@.. .> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Wiccans around here tread gently and Pagan Pride Day would be really
> unlikely. A few years ago, a perfectly nice Wiccan lady was asked to
offer
> the benediction before a local city council meeting and the county
nearly
> exploded. She ended up taking herself out of the event.
>
> See, a lot of us remember when the same things would have happened
with a
> Catholic or Jew.
>
> Vale,
> ld
>
>
> "And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one
> left to speak up."
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com]
On Behalf
> Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:47 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> hmmm...interesting. The vast majority of Pagans don't mind the term.
> Does your Wiccan friend ever go to a Pagan Pride Day?
>
> I will point out that most Heathens, though technically pagan, rarely
> ever self-identify as pagan. So I can see the point of view your
> friend has. Heathens do attend Pagan Pride Days from time to time, hehe.
>
> When I think 'pagan' I tend to picture a wiccan.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
ps.com, "Lyn
> Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > First, acquaintances who have held Wiccan and similar beliefs
loathe the
> > word. Their choice, so friends refrain from using it.
> >
> > Second, I really believe that in some instances it has a connotation
> of a
> > sort of wild-eyed, irrational idol-worship. Frankly, I don't give
a damn
> > about who or what anyone worships. But if they or others think that
> certain
> > words, including "pagan," are insulting; or if it gives a false
> impression
> > to someone who doesn't try to understand, I don't use the word.
> It's too
> > easily misconstrued.
> >
> > It's not PC. It's respect. I'm neither here to insult anyone nor in
> it for a
> > fight.
> >
> > vale,
> > L.A.M.
> > (and if you prefer to be called "pagan," that's fine too)
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:37 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Why do you think the word "pagan" comes with a negative, insulting
> > connotation?
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> >
> >
> > http://minucia. <http://minucia. <http://minucia. ciarin.com>
ciarin.com>
> ciarin.com
> >
> >
> > Lyn Dowling wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve, Varro,
> >
> > I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova Romans
> because
> > it comes with a negative, insulting connotation. But regardless of
what
> > non-monotheists call themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If
> I did, I
> > wouldn't be here, would I?
> >
> > The people who bother me are the people who believe in nothing save
> > themselves.
> >
> > Vale,
> > L. Aemilia
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of philippe cardon
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AS christians left no place for pagans in rome (and after all,
Rome was
> > founded as a pagan state isn't it) whose state religion was the
religio,
> > they can't find astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they
> fear the
> > pagans must leave one time more
> >
> > i see the fear at the side of the pagans not at the side of the
> christians
> > Varo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: L Julia Aquila <mailto:dis_ pensible@ >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou
> <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com> ps.com
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> > Salve Lentulus,
> >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700 years now.
> >
> > Well said.
> >
> > > CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > > I very much hope he reconsider this.
> > > I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> >
> > I agree. He will be held to the same expectations and conduct in
> > accordance with Roman Virtues.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Julia Aquila
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> ps.com, "Cn.
> > Cornelius Lentulus"
> > <cn_corn_lent@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
> > to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best
> > fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
> > not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the
> > faith of many good Romans.
> > >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700 years now.
> > >
> > > CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST
> > BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.
> > >
> > > I very much hope he reconsider this.
> > >
> > > I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@> ha scritto:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato quirites SPD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
> > and any and all positions I
> > >
> > > hold as scribe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
> > current sole Curule Aedile.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
> > regarding me contained in any
> > >
> > > medium whatsoever immediately.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
> > >
> > > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> > > antispam e messenger integrato.
> > > http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. yahoo.com/>
yahoo.com/>
> yahoo.com/Â Â Â Â Â Â
> Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > -----------
> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus
mail.
> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> > 06:55:00
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> > 06:55:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
02/16/09
> 06:55:00
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/17/09 07:07:00

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61384 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
 
LOL. You're good. I knew Wiccans and all sorts of other believers while living in Fort Lauderdale.
 
You know, even though the late, great Sybil Leek became a beloved figure here while she lived in Melbourne Beach, the locals don't seem to get that non-Christians are not out to call in the devil and take over. <rolling eyes>
 
Vale,
ld

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annia Minucia Marcella
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:49 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve,

Florida is the pagan capital of the country, imo. That's where I first learned of paganism and became wiccan. I was in Broward County, famous for screwing up the presidential election hehe. Orlando has tons of pagans. Ft. Lauderdale too. Plenty of pagans as well as a good amount of heathen folk in Tampa(they have the Tampa Bay Heathen Association,  and I still have my TBHA t-shirt hehe). When I lived in Ft. Myers I had found an awesome Pagan park and campsite where anyone could hold rituals and drum circles and picnics, etc.

Good times. Sucks to be in Brevard I guess.

Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Lyn Dowling wrote:

Salve,
 
I'm in Brevard County, Fla, home of Kennedy Space Center and a few remaining throwbacks to a less glorious era.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia Mamerca


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Annia Minucia Marcella
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:00 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve,

Where are you?

Vale,

Annia Minucia Marcella

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Lyn Dowling" <ldowling@.. .> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Wiccans around here tread gently and Pagan Pride Day would be really
> unlikely. A few years ago, a perfectly nice Wiccan lady was asked to
offer
> the benediction before a local city council meeting and the county
nearly
> exploded. She ended up taking herself out of the event.
>
> See, a lot of us remember when the same things would have happened
with a
> Catholic or Jew.
>
> Vale,
> ld
>
>
> "And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one
> left to speak up."
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com]
On Behalf
> Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:47 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> hmmm...interesting. The vast majority of Pagans don't mind the term.
> Does your Wiccan friend ever go to a Pagan Pride Day?
>
> I will point out that most Heathens, though technically pagan, rarely
> ever self-identify as pagan. So I can see the point of view your
> friend has. Heathens do attend Pagan Pride Days from time to time, hehe.
>
> When I think 'pagan' I tend to picture a wiccan.
>
> Vale,
>
> Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
ps.com, "Lyn
> Dowling" <ldowling@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > First, acquaintances who have held Wiccan and similar beliefs
loathe the
> > word. Their choice, so friends refrain from using it.
> >
> > Second, I really believe that in some instances it has a connotation
> of a
> > sort of wild-eyed, irrational idol-worship. Frankly, I don't give
a damn
> > about who or what anyone worships. But if they or others think that
> certain
> > words, including "pagan," are insulting; or if it gives a false
> impression
> > to someone who doesn't try to understand, I don't use the word.
> It's too
> > easily misconstrued.
> >
> > It's not PC. It's respect. I'm neither here to insult anyone nor in
> it for a
> > fight.
> >
> > vale,
> > L.A.M.
> > (and if you prefer to be called "pagan," that's fine too)
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of Annia Minucia Marcella
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:37 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Why do you think the word "pagan" comes with a negative, insulting
> > connotation?
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> >
> >
> > http://minucia. <http://minucia. <http://minucia. ciarin.com>
ciarin.com>
> ciarin.com
> >
> >
> > Lyn Dowling wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve, Varro,
> >
> > I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova Romans
> because
> > it comes with a negative, insulting connotation. But regardless of
what
> > non-monotheists call themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If
> I did, I
> > wouldn't be here, would I?
> >
> > The people who bother me are the people who believe in nothing save
> > themselves.
> >
> > Vale,
> > L. Aemilia
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com]
> On Behalf
> > Of philippe cardon
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AS christians left no place for pagans in rome (and after all,
Rome was
> > founded as a pagan state isn't it) whose state religion was the
religio,
> > they can't find astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they
> fear the
> > pagans must leave one time more
> >
> > i see the fear at the side of the pagans not at the side of the
> christians
> > Varo
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: L Julia Aquila <mailto:dis_ pensible@ >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogrou
> <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com> ps.com> ps.com
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> >
> >
> > Salve Lentulus,
> >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700 years now.
> >
> > Well said.
> >
> > > CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > > I very much hope he reconsider this.
> > > I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> >
> > I agree. He will be held to the same expectations and conduct in
> > accordance with Roman Virtues.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Julia Aquila
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou <mailto:Nova- Roma%40yahoogrou ps.com>
> ps.com, "Cn.
> > Cornelius Lentulus"
> > <cn_corn_lent@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
> > to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best
> > fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
> > not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the
> > faith of many good Romans.
> > >
> > > Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
> > absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
> > >
> > > Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
> > to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
> > least for a 1700 years now.
> > >
> > > CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST
> > BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.
> > >
> > > I very much hope he reconsider this.
> > >
> > > I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
> > stay. I did this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@> ha scritto:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato quirites SPD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
> > and any and all positions I
> > >
> > > hold as scribe.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
> > current sole Curule Aedile.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
> > regarding me contained in any
> > >
> > > medium whatsoever immediately.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
> > >
> > > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> > > antispam e messenger integrato.
> > > http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. <http://it.mail. yahoo.com/>
yahoo.com/>
> yahoo.com/Â Â Â Â Â Â
> Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > -----------
> > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus
mail.
> > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> > 06:55:00
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
> 02/16/09
> > 06:55:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1955 - Release Date:
02/16/09
> 06:55:00
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61385 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Salve Venator,
nice joke! I guess more so for those who have been in the military, but even I got it, even if it took me a while.
 
Optime vale,
Livia

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:17 AM, C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:

Salvete Omnes,

How absolutely delightful ...and, bureaurocracy being what it is, probably
not all *that* unhistorical, either. Besides, I think a laugh is most
appropriate and welcome about now, so I thank you for that laugh.

Valete Bene,
C. Maria Caeca




--
http://s9.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=99735
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61386 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Maior Laenati spd;
'madame;? the spirit of Victoria really does live.
since Dexter, Varro, Albucius our francophones don't use
that term, I'd suggest you and Paulinus go to Modianus for a bout of
consciouness-raising.
valeas
Maior
>
> Laenas Mai9or sal.
>
> >>Let me reming Laenas and Paulinus our two censors, that in Europe
> there are very few to zero legal pagan organizations while in the
> U.S. pagan and atheists living in a Christian majority country must
> sometimes hide their beliefs. Nova Roma is a haven for us. It is our
> place<<
>
> Please, you do not need to remind me of anything, madame.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61387 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
he can become pagan if he will, i shall be happy to welcome him
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

Salve Varro,
 
<looking around> Well, this Christian doesn't believe you're dead, but thinks you deserve all the respect in the world.
 
Vale bene,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:31 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

you're right pagan is a chistain word but i use it,
 
& because we lack of a better word
2 because doing that i say to christains, you believe we are dead, we are alive!
 
varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

Historically, it meant country dweller in pre-christian times. As a religious term, it is a Christian coinage and became their religious designation for a superstitious backwards redneck hick. In that sense, it is similar to the early religious usage, again a Christian invention, of the term heathen (except heathen also carries a satanic connotation in the early usages).

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 1:37 AM

Salve,

Why do you think the word "pagan" comes with a negative, insulting connotation?
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Lyn Dowling wrote:
Salve, Varro,
 
I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova Romans because it comes with a negative, insulting connotation. But regardless of what non-monotheists call themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If I did, I wouldn't be here, would I?
 
The people who bother me are the people who believe in nothing save themselves.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

AS  christians left no place for pagans in rome (and after all, Rome was founded as a pagan state isn't it) whose state religion was the religio, they can't find astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they fear the pagans must leave one time more
 
i see the fear at the side of the pagans not at the side of the christians
Varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve Lentulus,

> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.

Well said.

> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,

I agree.

> I very much hope he reconsider this.
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.

I agree. He will be held to the same expectations and conduct in
accordance with Roman Virtues.

Vale,

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@ ...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.
>
>
> Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best
fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the
faith of many good Romans.
>
> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.
>
> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST
BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.
>
> I very much hope he reconsider this.
>
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.
>
>
> Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.
>
>
> --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato quirites SPD
>
>
>
> Salvete.
>
>
>
> I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
and any and all positions I
>
> hold as scribe.
>
>
>
> I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
current sole Curule Aedile.
>
>
>
> I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
regarding me contained in any
>
> medium whatsoever immediately.
>
>
>
> For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure.
>
>
>
> "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
>
>
>
> Valete
>
>
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
>
> La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> antispam e messenger integrato.
> http://it.mail. yahoo.com/ Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ 
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61388 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Jews and Roma
Salve!
Maior wrote:
"The Romans admired my people for our antiquity".
I've never heard of any admiration of your "people". Ancient Romans accepted that religio (the idea of Jews-people is like the idea of Christians-people or Buddha's people) because it was a very old one, but never thought Jews were to admire like Greeks, of course; maybe because of mores against children that your people still practice: Jews love to cut a part of their male sex, like some africans do with their female sex.
Vale!
A.C.C.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61389 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"? gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
Varo
----- Original Message -----
From: Maior
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Maior Laenati spd;
'madame;? the spirit of Victoria really does live.
since Dexter, Varro, Albucius our francophones don't use
that term, I'd suggest you and Paulinus go to Modianus for a bout of
consciouness- raising.
valeas
Maior
>
> Laenas Mai9or sal.
>
> >>Let me reming Laenas and Paulinus our two censors, that in Europe
> there are very few to zero legal pagan organizations while in the
> U.S. pagan and atheists living in a Christian majority country must
> sometimes hide their beliefs. Nova Roma is a haven for us. It is our
> place<<
>
> Please, you do not need to remind me of anything, madame.
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61390 From: Chantal Gaudiano Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: (no subject)
Savete, quirites--
 
I would agree with Titus Anneus Regulus' proposal that we should simply not discuss religions onlist which aren't the Religio Romana--except that I've been told numerous times that the Roman forum was a place where anything and everything could be discussed and often was, heatedly.
 
I don't like how heated and bitter the discussions sometimes get, mind you, but that is the argument I've heard time and again, whenever people complain about bickering on the list and want it to be more strictly moderated.
 
Really, as long as we all behave as polite and considerate adults, I don't see a reason why any topic could not be discussed onlist.  When we cease acting like considerate adults, then I think discussions ought to be tabled.
 
"I never seen, heard, nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about."  --Stephen Hopkins, from 1776
 
(one of my favorite quotes from that play.  (g)
 
Paulla Corva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61391 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Jews and Roma
the idea of jew-people has definitivly nothing to see with the idea of christian-people or buddha's-people
 
if the romans accepted the jewish rligion it was because it was the religion of one people like egyptian gods were the Godsof egyptian people
 
in fance we speak sometimes of a (french) protestant people sociologically different, that is true and false, but it is a modern way to see things that romans have not
 
varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Jews and Roma

Salve!
Maior wrote:
"The Romans admired my people for our antiquity".
I've never heard of any admiration of your "people". Ancient Romans accepted that religio (the idea of Jews-people is like the idea of Christians-people or Buddha's people) because it was a very old one, but never thought Jews were to admire like Greeks, of course; maybe because of mores against children that your people still practice: Jews love to cut a part of their male sex, like some africans do with their female sex.
Vale!
A.C.C.


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61392 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Salvete,
 
we are not a Christian discussion forum, our Forum is the place to discuss matters of general interest for our Republic of Nova Roma.
 
A republic which is the home for our Religio Romana.
 
Why is it, that some Christians do not understand that discussing the Christian religion onlist , will always end up in heated discussions. Wouldn´t it be possible that those Christian citizens form their own discussion forum and to spare us from those discussions, to the benefit of our res publica.
 
 
Optime valete
Titus Flavius Aquila


Von: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 17. Februar 2009, 16:36:29 Uhr
Betreff: Re: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete

Salve Firmus,

> And I oppose it. I see no need to bar mention of other religions.
>
> Firstly, they are going to come up in historical discussion anyway
so
> a prohibition would result in uneasy gaps.
>
> Secondly, as several reasonable and responsible postings by
Christians
> and by Heathens have demonstrated, its perfectly possible to discuss
> other religions as relevant, including any historically attested
> violence, defacement of temples, rape & pillage, without anyone
> needing to feel that mention of historical facts is in any way a
> slight against them personally, or something that needs to be
declared
> taboo or denied.

Well said. A little self restraint, leaving emotions out of the
conversation and sticking to factual discussions go a long way.

Vale,

L. Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, M. Cocceius Firmus <nantonos@.. .>
wrote:
>
> Salve Aquilia
>
> Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:48:25 AM, you wrote:
>
> TFA> I support the proposal of Titus Annaeus Regulus
> TFA>
> TFA> Why don't we simply agree not to mention cults other than the
RR
> TFA> as suggested in the Praetorian Reminder ?
>
> And I oppose it. I see no need to bar mention of other religions.
>
> Firstly, they are going to come up in historical discussion anyway
so
> a prohibition would result in uneasy gaps.
>
> Secondly, as several reasonable and responsible postings by
Christians
> and by Heathens have demonstrated, its perfectly possible to discuss
> other religions as relevant,
including any historically attested
> violence, defacement of temples, rape & pillage, without anyone
> needing to feel that mention of historical facts is in any way a
> slight against them personally, or something that needs to be
declared
> taboo or denied.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> M. Cocceius Firmus
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61393 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve Varro;
cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais et
vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'..c'est le meme
chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
valeas
Maior
>
> what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
> Varo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maior
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:28 PM
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
>
>
> Maior Laenati spd;
> 'madame;? the spirit of Victoria really does live.
> since Dexter, Varro, Albucius our francophones don't use
> that term, I'd suggest you and Paulinus go to Modianus for a bout of
> consciouness-raising.
> valeas
> Maior
> >
> > Laenas Mai9or sal.
> >
> > >>Let me reming Laenas and Paulinus our two censors, that in Europe
> > there are very few to zero legal pagan organizations while in the
> > U.S. pagan and atheists living in a Christian majority country must
> > sometimes hide their beliefs. Nova Roma is a haven for us. It is
our
> > place<<
> >
> > Please, you do not need to remind me of anything, madame.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus
mail.
> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61394 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Laenas Maior

Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61397 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: (no subject)
Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete.

To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act. I withdraw it. It
is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and collected myself before acting.

Onward and upward.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61398 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61399 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
Salve Cato,
 
for how long this time ? Until the next discussion ?
 
I am very sorry to say, but you have lost my respect in acting the way you did .
 
This all is a big joke.....
 
Vale
Titus Flavius Aquila
 

 


Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, den 17. Februar 2009, 21:57:02 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)

Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete.

To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act. I withdraw it. It
is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and collected myself before acting.

Onward and upward.

Valete,

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61400 From: Lyn Dowling Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Salve
 
Welcome back, Cato!
 
Vale
L. A. M.

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gaius Equitius Cato
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:57 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)

Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete.

To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act. I withdraw it. It
is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and collected myself before acting.

Onward and upward.

Valete,

Cato

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/17/09 07:07:00

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61401 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: R: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
Cn. Lentulus pontifex T. Flavio Aquilae quaestori sal.


You make some good points that have to be answered.


>>>> we are not a Christian discussion forum, our Forum is the place to
discuss matters of general interest for our Republic of Nova Roma.<<<<


That's true but it is quite evident that Christianity is a matter of general interest for our Republic. This is one of favourite topics of many citizens, and honestly, this is the only one topic that *always* can inspire a long and vivid discussion in our forum. I think that even if this is really boring and annoying, there is nothing strictly wrong with this. Christianity is one thing of all things Roman, and it was always during the human history in the focus of many people's personal interest.

And because Christianity was born as one of the religions of the Roman Empire, a Roman organization seems to be a good place for such discussions. We can't never stop this: there will be always new people who will ask the questions in this forum like: "why did Christianity win", "what was the origin of this religion", "what is the connection between the two religions" etc.

One the other hand there is an official mailing list exclusively for Roman religion, it's called "Religio Romana". So citizens normally go there to talk about Roman religion, and if a person wants to talk about Christian religion with non-Christians, the NR_Christians list is not enough to this, he must ask here.

Either we should move all discussions about religions to the Religio Romana list, or we should move all Religio Romana discussions to this list.
 

>>> A republic which is the home for our Religio Romana. <<<


Nova Roma is the home of the Roman religion, it is unquestionable. But Christian religion is part of the broader Roman religion, it is one of the several sub-religions of Rome, so nothing can stop Christians feeling entirely Roman or Nova Roman; and the fact that we, cultores, are the privilegized religion, the rulers of Nova Roma's religious life, does not mean that we can't allow guests into our home. But Chriatians aren't guests: they are historical part of the Roman civilization, like Mithraists.
 

>>> Why is it, that some Christians do not understand that
discussing the Christian religion onlist , will always end up in heated discussions. Wouldn´t it be possible that those Christian citizens form their own discussion forum and to spare us from those discussions, to the benefit of our res publica. <<<<


In this maybe you are right. But it's sad that we can manage a public forum where about everything citizens can talk. It is a shame.

The normal way would be that everybody is allowed to speak about all things Roman and Nova Roman (faith is one of these things) while Christians don't become so defensive and sensible, and polytheists don't mind discussions about Christian topics: that would be the normal course of action.


Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61402 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Valete
Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
> un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
> sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
>

Salve,

It's probably better to write in English and let the reader use Google
translate if they want to than to do it yourself. It would probably make
more sense and they could fall back on dictionaries if it didn't.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61404 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Cato's "Return"
Salve et salvete omnes,

I am very glad you changed you mind Cato, amice.

Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61405 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve Cato,

>Il est tout à fait correct.
Je suis absolument d'accord avec vous sur ce point.

Vale
Julia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61406 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Salve Cato,

Welcome back!

Vale,

Julia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61407 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Valete
Cato T. Octavio Pio omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

I apologize. The gist of what I said is that the term "madame" is used as a term of respect
in formal conversation. It is not "sexist" or outdated. It may be that it is used more
regularly in a conversation of a certain social level, but it is used a great deal, and is quite
correct.

Valete,

Cato


> Salve,
>
> It's probably better to write in English and let the reader use Google
> translate if they want to than to do it yourself. It would probably make
> more sense and they could fall back on dictionaries if it didn't.
>
> Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61408 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Salvete omnes,
I'll second that.
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:

From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:29 PM

Salve et salvete omnes,

I am very glad you changed you mind Cato, amice.

Laenas


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61409 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Translation;

"It is not 'sexist' at all to use the term 'madame' it is used
everywhere, as a formal term of respect in conversation. Perhaps
certain people such as Maior are not exposed to situations at a
social level where this type of expression is used. But have no fear
about this usage; it is correct" Cato


>
> Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
encore utilisé partout, comme
> un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
certains gens comme Maior ne
> sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61410 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos: C. Equitio Catoni senatori praetorio: sal.


I join to the chose of those who welcome your "return", in fact, I think you have never really resigned in heart.

I'm very glad, too. New York is taken again. :)

But seriously, we were depressed by your absence.

By the way, I'm very serious in my intention to solve the Christian-Polytheist discord in Nova Roma. As a member of the CP, I would support creating an official Sodalitas Christiana where most of the energy of those who love to talk about Christianity, theology, liturgy, history of religion could find its way in a friendly environment.

THERE MUST BE a solution, and other than it is currently.


--- Mar 17/2/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...> ha scritto:

Salvete omnes,
I'll second that.
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:29 PM

Salve et salvete omnes,

I am very glad you changed you mind Cato, amice.

Laenas




Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61411 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Cato T. Flavio Aquilae sal.

Salve.

Well, it took 6 years this time. It is now, then, my responsibility to regain whatever respect
you may have had. I look forward to the opportunity.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> for how long this time ? Until the next discussion ?
>
> I am very sorry to say, but you have lost my respect in acting the way you did .
>
> This all is a big joke.....
>
> Vale
> Titus Flavius Aquila
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
> An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 17. Februar 2009, 21:57:02 Uhr
> Betreff: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
>
>
> Cato omnibus SPD
>
> Salvete.
>
> To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act. I withdraw
it. It
> is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and collected myself before
acting.
>
> Onward and upward.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
> __.._,_.___
> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
> Messages | Members
> MARKETPLACE
>
> ________________________________
> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
>
> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
> Recent Activity
> *  9
> New MembersVisit Your Group
> Yahoo! News
> Fashion News
> What's the word on
> fashion and style?
> Drive Traffic
> Sponsored Search
> can help increase
> your site traffic.
> Yahoo! Groups
> Stay healthy
> and discover other
> people who can help.
> .
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61412 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Salvete,
Of course, I wondered if there was some symbolism in that Cato left on Sunday of the Prodigal Son. Well, following custom rather than belief, off to the meat market. Next week, cheese!
 
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:

From: A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:34 PM

Salvete omnes,
I'll second that.
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:29 PM

Salve et salvete omnes,

I am very glad you changed you mind Cato, amice.

Laenas



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61413 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Cat Cn. Cornelio Lentulo sal.

Salve.

This is an interesting idea, and one which deserves some consideration. Ironically, I have
always been a champion of *not* relegating discussions to other Lists precisely because I
think it important for anyone to be able to say anything about anything in this, the Forum.

And without bringing a very dead horse to life, it is not discussions about the history or
development etc. that bother me; it is the casual, off-hand slurs on the *faith* itself that
do. Perhaps the lesson I must learn is to simply ignore them.

I am very interested in this idea of examining the narratives that were used to teach
Roman children about the gods and the fundamental values important to the continuity of
the Roman mind; I would not consider questioning whether or not Mercury actually did,
historically, create the first lyre and give it to Apollo to make up for stealing his cows,
however :)

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61414 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Maior Catoni Aquilo spd;
since you left out the insult to me in your translation of your
letter, I would say Aquila is proving correct.
Maior

>
> Salve.
>
> Well, it took 6 years this time. It is now, then, my
responsibility to regain whatever respect
> you may have had. I look forward to the opportunity.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Titus Flavius Aquila
<titus.aquila@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> >
> > for how long this time ? Until the next discussion ?
> >
> > I am very sorry to say, but you have lost my respect in acting
the way you did .
> >
> > This all is a big joke.....
> >
> > Vale
> > Titus Flavius Aquila
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Von: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@>
> > An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, den 17. Februar 2009, 21:57:02 Uhr
> > Betreff: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
> >
> >
> > Cato omnibus SPD
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a
petty act. I withdraw
> it. It
> > is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and
collected myself before
> acting.
> >
> > Onward and upward.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > __.._,_.___
> > Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new
topic
> > Messages | Members
> > MARKETPLACE
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft
Foods
> >
> > Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest |
Switch format to Traditional
> > Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
> > Recent Activity
> > *  9
> > New MembersVisit Your Group
> > Yahoo! News
> > Fashion News
> > What's the word on
> > fashion and style?
> > Drive Traffic
> > Sponsored Search
> > can help increase
> > your site traffic.
> > Yahoo! Groups
> > Stay healthy
> > and discover other
> > people who can help.
> > .
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61415 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Cato Maiori sal.

Salve.

I did say that my translation was of the *gist* of the original.

Vale bene,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Catoni Aquilo spd;
> since you left out the insult to me in your translation of your
> letter, I would say Aquila is proving correct.
> Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61416 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve,
I think debate on all matter of topics in the Forum/Main List is healthy to a Republic.
But if you have a mind to create a new Sodalitas, I have a suggestion. Let's have a Byzantine one. We have a Greek one. Why Byzantine?
 
I think the accomplishments of Byzantium were as much Roman as Christian.
 
1. While the West went through a "Dark Ages", Byzantium did not.
2. The first university in Europe (which admitted women unlike the
early western ones) was the University of Constantinople.
3. The classics were preserved by the Byzantines who also
developed the tools of textual and historical criticism.
4. If not for Byzantium, the following three items would
not have been possible.
a. the Renaissance,
b. the Enlightenment,
c. Nova Roma itself.
 
Just a thought...
 
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:44 PM

Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos: C. Equitio Catoni senatori praetorio: sal.


I join to the chose of those who welcome your "return", in fact, I think you have never really resigned in heart.

I'm very glad, too. New York is taken again. :)

But seriously, we were depressed by your absence.

By the way, I'm very serious in my intention to solve the Christian-Polytheis t discord in Nova Roma. As a member of the CP, I would support creating an official Sodalitas Christiana where most of the energy of those who love to talk about Christianity, theology, liturgy, history of religion could find its way in a friendly environment.

THERE MUST BE a solution, and other than it is currently.


--- Mar 17/2/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius. regulus@yahoo. com> ha scritto:
Salvete omnes,
I'll second that.
Valete,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 9:29 PM

Salve et salvete omnes,

I am very glad you changed you mind Cato, amice.

Laenas




Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61417 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato's "Return"
Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.

Salve!

You may not believe it, but it had completely no association :)

Today is the Quirinalia, though, when we celebrate our citizenship - we are called
"quirites" which I think is a sort of cognate of "coviri", or "men together".

The ponitfex maximus' calendar post goes into some detail about the Quirinalia, and I
would only add this from Livy, depicting the scene just after Romulus had disappeared:

"Then a few voices began to proclaim Romulus's divinity; the cry was
taken up, and at last every man present hailed him as a god and son of
a god, and prayed to him to be for ever gracious and to protect his
children. However, even on this great occasion there were, I believe,
a few dissentients who secretly maintained that the king had been torn
to pieces by the senators. At all events the story got about, though
in veiled terms; but it was not important, as awe, and admiration for
Romulus's greatness set the seal upon the other version of his end,
which was, moreover, given further credit by the timely action of a
certain Julius Proculus, a man, we are told, honored for his wise
counsel on weighty matters. The loss of the king had left the people
in an uneasy mood and suspicious of the senators, and Proculus, aware
of the prevalent temper, conceived the shrewd idea of addressing the
Assembly. Romulus, he declared, the father of our City descended from
heaven at dawn this morning and appeared to me. In awe and reverence I
stood before him, praying for permission to look upon his face without
sin. "Go," he said, "and tell the Romans that by heaven's will my Rome
shall be capital of the world. Let them learn to be soldiers. Let them
know, and teach their children, that no power on earth can stand
against Roman arms." Having spoken these words, he was taken up again
into the sky." - Livy, History of Rome 1.16

The god Mars, finding Romulus worthy, gives his blessing to Romulus as Quirinus and by
extension to the whole Roman People.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61418 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salvete,

...and the Hagia Sophia!

Valete

LJA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61419 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
C. Petronius Dexter Quiritibus s.p.d.,

> Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Martias; haec dies nefastus
> piaculum est: Quirino in colle

Today at the Quirinalia I have to oint the weapons of Quirinus, as
Flamen Portunalis. So I wrote those verses to replace the lack of
the "arma Quirini" into Nova Roma. ;o)

Et surrexerunt subito tua templa, Quirine,
Priscorum aeuorum quae se ex puluere rumpunt
Et uitam renouant quam Romae quondam habuerunt.
Sic faciunt, quia mi sunt unguenda arma Quirini
Quae diebus pingui pice festis unguere fas est.
Iam Portunalis flamen feci sacra rite,
Dixi certaque uerba ut uiuat in pace deorum
Roma Noua et uigeant antiquo more Quirites.

Prospere ualete.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61420 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: gaudeamus in Quirinalium
Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete!

In celebration of the Quirinalia, I give this as a peace-offering to our citizens who practice
the Religio Romana. I have, as usual, taken some liberty with the rules of double-
dactylism.



Higgledy-piggledy
Romulus, deified,
looks down on Rome with
a laugh deep and loud.
"Look!" he says, pointing his
sesquipedalian
finger at us, "Go on
now - make me proud!

Roma in glory! I
long to see Her raise
once more to the heavens the
praise of Her gods!
Even if currently
(post-Milvio-pontically)
another Someone has
weighted the odds!

Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva and
Neptune all
stand right here with Me
just waiting for prayer!
Not just on those days that
diesnefastically
command great festivals -
show Us you care!"

Higgledy-piggledy
Hail Nova Roma!
Your citizens stand in a
heavenly glow.
plebs and patricians* in
amicability
stand side by side
a great future to sow!


*especially patricians. <cough>


Valete!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61421 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

I'll remind you that people are going to remind and suggest things to you once in a while. I suggest you get over it.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:

Laenas Maior

Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61422 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Piss off Minucua!

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I'll remind you that people are going to remind and suggest things
to
> you once in a while. I suggest you get over it.
>
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia.ciarin.com
>
>
>
> gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:
> >
> > Laenas Maior
> >
> > Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61423 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.

And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a translation for those who aren't.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:

Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61424 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salvee,

I learned about that from the Civilization games, hehe.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


L Julia Aquila wrote:

Salvete,

...and the Hagia Sophia!

Valete

LJA

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61425 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve,
 
Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another church to visit.
It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s (actually 350-380 CE?).
St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a Roman buliding was like.
 
But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
 
There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the Christian Greek
East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West was "aristotelian". Contrary
to that perception, it turns out at the University of Constantinople one could study
all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the Philosopher, a title the West
borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies was at
Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the pagan Theologian",
Plato and his school.
 
So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in Aristotle. Only a
few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was a "Theologian".
Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen at the time.
 
Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire in
1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the graduate
school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities - hence,
Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia Sophia
was, besides being a church.
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM

Salvete,

...and the Hagia Sophia!

Valete

LJA


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61426 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like, or not.


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Salve,

Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.

And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a translation for those who aren't.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61427 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Its good that you learn something from something.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:23 PM

Salvee,

I learned about that from the Civilization games, hehe.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


L Julia Aquila wrote:
Salvete,

...and the Hagia Sophia!

Valete

LJA


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61428 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
I should apologize to the cives on this list for using language that is
outside of our guidelines.

I let myself get a little more provoked than usual.

Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61429 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve Censor Laenas,

Thank you for this post.

Vale,

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...> writes:

> I should apologize to the cives on this list for using language that is
> outside of our guidelines.
>
> I let myself get a little more provoked than usual.
>
> Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61430 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

Not really.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:

Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like, or not.


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Salve,

Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.

And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a translation for those who aren't.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61431 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
Maybe it is partially Cato's fault if he is really Greek (not really). Didn't those Greek guys domesticate the Furies into becoming Fates listening to all cases patiently from the court above? I think we have some Furies running a'muck. Either those Greek guys didn't do their job or we Romans re-unscrewed the bottle, ;)
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:

From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Piss off Minucua!

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I'll remind you that people are going to remind and suggest things
to
> you once in a while. I suggest you get over it.
>
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia. ciarin.com
>
>
>
> gaiuspopilliuslaena s wrote:
> >
> > Laenas Maior
> >
> > Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.
> >
> >
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61432 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve,

At times.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:

Its good that you learn something from something.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:23 PM

Salvee,

I learned about that from the Civilization games, hehe.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


L Julia Aquila wrote:
Salvete,

...and the Hagia Sophia!

Valete

LJA


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61433 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Avete;

Just thought we could use a mood lightener ,-)

Semper Amicus - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61434 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve Regulus,

And Bravo!

It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can walk
around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural sites
are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.

Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
Mitras altar was found underground.

Thank you for this, it was very nice.

Vale
Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>  
> Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
church to visit.
> It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s (actually
350-380 CE?).
> St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a Roman
buliding was like.
>  
> But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
>  
> There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
Christian Greek
> East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
was "aristotelian". Contrary
> to that perception, it turns out at the University of
Constantinople one could study
> all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
Philosopher, a title the West
> borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
was at
> Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the pagan
Theologian",
> Plato and his school.
>  
> So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in Aristotle.
Only a
> few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
a "Theologian".
> Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen at
the time..
>  
> Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
Empire in
> 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
graduate
> school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities - hence,
> Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
Sophia
> was, besides being a church.
>  
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
> Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> ....and the Hagia Sophia!
>
> Valete
>
> LJA
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61435 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
On 2/17/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete.

To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act.  I withdraw it. 

I am so very very glad. I am not a Christian, I am a follower of the Religio but I wholeheartedly believe you would have been an immense loss to Nova Roma. Welcome back

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61436 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
 
"Not Really"? Really? I suggest you are neither well-bred, well-educated,
nor well-travelled. "Madame" taken as a negative title indicates a person
more with the ghetto than culture.
 
As Sextus Empiricus indicated, with you speaking your mind,
 
Your speaking is evident to all; neither the movements nor existence of your mind is evident.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin..com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:36 PM

Salve,

Not really.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:
Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like, or not.


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Salve,

Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.

And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a translation for those who aren't.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61437 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Last time I went there, I had three graduate students carrying boxes. It has been suggested I need to buy another house for my books. We had to reinforce the one
I'm in -- weight of books. I'm kind'of lucky, we have friends who have an apartment
in Constantinople. They go ski in Turkey and we use their apartment.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM

Salve Regulus,

And Bravo!

It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can walk
around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural sites
are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.

Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
Mitras altar was found underground.

Thank you for this, it was very nice.

Vale
Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>  
> Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
church to visit.
> It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s (actually
350-380 CE?).
> St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a Roman
buliding was like.
>  
> But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
>  
> There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
Christian Greek
> East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
was "aristotelian" . Contrary
> to that perception, it turns out at the University of
Constantinople one could study
> all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
Philosopher, a title the West
> borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
was at
> Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the pagan
Theologian",
> Plato and his school.
>  
> So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in Aristotle.
Only a
> few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
a "Theologian" .
> Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen at
the time..
>  
> Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
Empire in
> 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
graduate
> school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities - hence,
> Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
Sophia
> was, besides being a church.
>  
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> ....and the Hagia Sophia!
>
> Valete
>
> LJA
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61438 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Salve,
To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention. There are a number of studies classicists ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the cult of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -- where did the cult come from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest Armenian churches are built right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM

Salve Regulus,

And Bravo!

It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can walk
around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural sites
are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.

Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
Mitras altar was found underground.

Thank you for this, it was very nice.

Vale
Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>  
> Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
church to visit.
> It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s (actually
350-380 CE?).
> St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a Roman
buliding was like.
>  
> But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
>  
> There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
Christian Greek
> East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
was "aristotelian" . Contrary
> to that perception, it turns out at the University of
Constantinople one could study
> all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
Philosopher, a title the West
> borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
was at
> Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the pagan
Theologian",
> Plato and his school.
>  
> So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in Aristotle.
Only a
> few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
a "Theologian" .
> Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen at
the time..
>  
> Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
Empire in
> 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
graduate
> school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities - hence,
> Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
Sophia
> was, besides being a church.
>  
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> ....and the Hagia Sophia!
>
> Valete
>
> LJA
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61439 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

You make so many assumptions about a person you've never met. You need to realize that not everyone conforms to your stereotypes. No, you don't have to be "ghetto-like" to use the term "madame" in a derisive manner. People can use "sir" or "madame" to make themselves sound erudite or "high class" when being curt or snarky. I can cite a perfect example, the funny quote attributed to churchill:

Bessie Braddock: "Sir, you are drunk."
Churchill: "And you, madam, are ugly. But in the morning, I shall be sober."

You can also use madame as a way of mocking someone, or with sarcasm. I really don't get how you came up with "only ghetto people do that" since I've never actually heard a person from the ghetto say madame, ever. Anyone of any social class has the ability to use terms in a mocking, derisive, or insulting manner. Thinking only ghetto people do that is quite bigotted imo.

It's a bit sad that I actually have to explain this. Maybe I should've just said "piss off" instead, but that's not how I roll.

And PWNT.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:

Salve,
 
"Not Really"? Really? I suggest you are neither well-bred, well-educated,
nor well-travelled. "Madame" taken as a negative title indicates a person
more with the ghetto than culture.
 
As Sextus Empiricus indicated, with you speaking your mind,
 
Your speaking is evident to all; neither the movements nor existence of your mind is evident.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. .com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:36 PM

Salve,

Not really.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:
Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like, or not.


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM

Salve,

Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.

And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a translation for those who aren't.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
Cato Varo sal.

Salve.

Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est encore utilisé partout, comme
un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que certains gens comme Maior ne
sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.

Vale,

Cato



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61440 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
>Last time I went there, I had three graduate students carrying
>boxes. It has been suggested I need to buy another house for my
>books.

Oh I understand perfectly. I would love to have a house for my books,
I recently had to remove all the furniture from my den to make way
for books I saved from a flooded storage.

>We had to reinforce the one I'm in -- weight of books.

Oh, it sounds like nirvana to me, a place i could get lost in. I like
old books with character, and sometimes they are even in a language I
can understand.*teases*

I enjoy reading the old and not well known text books on ancient
Roman History from the 19th century. Amazing the liberty that was
taken with history. However some of the bindings, when in good shape
are often exquisite.

>I'm kind'of lucky, we have friends who have an apartment
>in Constantinople. They go ski in Turkey and we use their apartment.

Very lucky indeed! Last time I was there the people I stayed with
spoke very little English but I was in the heart of the city and
young, so little bothered me.

Nice talking with you,

Vale

Julia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61441 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: to onibus SPD
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Ca
>

A reference to one of the aspects of the Egyptian soul now?

In amicitia - Venii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61442 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Salve Regulus,

That is on my todo list, when I was there in the early 90's I went
through pretty fast, on business, and Mitras is one reason, but, as
you know, there are other archeological interests as well.

> I do not agree with more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic
Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention.

I have not made a personal conclusion regarding that, however I have
to allow the argument that each early civilization produced similar
gods depicting similar characteristics for similar purposes. As
humans underneath it all we are very similar:)

I also know that the evidence supporting your statement is very
compelling also.

Vale

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with
more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a
Hellenistic invention. There are a number of studies classicists
ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
cult of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -
- where did the cult come from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are
all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest Armenian churches are built
right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
> Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Regulus,
>
> And Bravo!
>
> It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
> book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can
walk
> around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural
sites
> are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.
>
> Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
> recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
> Mitras altar was found underground.
>
> Thank you for this, it was very nice.
>
> Vale
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >  
> > Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
> church to visit.
> > It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s
(actually
> 350-380 CE?).
> > St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a
Roman
> buliding was like.
> >  
> > But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
> >  
> > There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
> Christian Greek
> > East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
> was "aristotelian" . Contrary
> > to that perception, it turns out at the University of
> Constantinople one could study
> > all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
> Philosopher, a title the West
> > borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
> was at
> > Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the
pagan
> Theologian",
> > Plato and his school.
> >  
> > So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in
Aristotle.
> Only a
> > few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
> a "Theologian" .
> > Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen
at
> the time..
> >  
> > Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
> Empire in
> > 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
> graduate
> > school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities -
hence,
> > Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
> Sophia
> > was, besides being a church.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> > Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > ....and the Hagia Sophia!
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > LJA
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61443 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Salve Corva,
 
I didn't suggest any official ban, merely a disapproval of discussion of other religions that does not meaningfully educate or illustrate a point to citizens who participate and listen to the discussion. Move the condemnation of the threads from after the thread has exploded in a big fight (which is what we have now) to the beginning of the conflict and hopefully circumvent the opportunity for conflict. As in my first post:
 
I don't say we make it a law, just a taboo. I don't want to infringe on anyone's right to free speech, but the costs seem extraordinarily high and apparently these things happen all the time and to no real resolution. I think we are all mature enough to do this as a courtesy for the good of the Republic. Topics of a religious nature not directly to the RR are OT, and I think should be encouraged to be ignored unless for some extenuating circumstance like intellectual interest. If this is the 'home base' of the RR (and it is) I don't think this is the appropriate place to be debating one religion versus another. Either outside cults will get nasty, defaming the RR in its own halls, or RR practitioners will get out of hand, using its own Forum to defame other religions. Neither of these look good, and both imply huge amounts of disrespect.
 
Thus if the topic is accepted as one of intellectual interest and mutually respectful we have no problem. If, on the other hand, citizens feel the debate is becoming nasty or nonobjective, citizens could 'condemn' the posters (in an objective fashion). Since I'm effectively suggesting an agreement to not flame other's religions (or allow others to do so) or talk about them provocatively without just cause, the only penalty would be the loss of dignitas accompanying being singled out by your peers as causing purposeful religious strife on the list. It leaves the use of such condemnation to the discretion of citizens. If a citizen feels another citizen is condemning his religion, he could simply say as much. Whether or not that is the case, if it seems reasonable that he could have been offended, the original poster could simply stop the conversation as a courtesy. Thus no inter-personal conflict, which is how things really get nasty imo.
 
Thus as long as it is a debate, even a heated one, everyone can keep their peace. If it becomes a fight that is stinking up the ML, I encourage people to call a spade a spade and stop it before it gets out of hand. It's not a ban, and it's not even a proposal as such, just a very informal suggestion that if the majority of people are sick and tired of religious fighting on the ML, they should say so and show the offenders that they aren't impressing anyone and are severely undermining NR's stability and promoting discord. Using free speech isn't just the freedom to say whatever you want whenever you want, it comes with responsibilities and I think keeping the ML free of pointless bickering that comes from infantile behaviour and hyper-sensitivity is one of them. It makes the ML a place of dread and actually discourages many people from participating. Is that free speech? I would say no.
 
Discussing history is a-ok, pointless bickering and religious stereo-typing etc. is not, and I think the majority of Nova Romans can tell when it's one or the other. Then again, the majority of Nova Romans can tell the difference between disagreements on an intellectual level and personal attacks, but the few who don't make an awful lot of stink sometimes. Perhaps the minority would have the same effect with this. Constantly complaining that absolutely any mention of religion is disrespectful etc. I don't know, but I do know that the thread we had going was an excellent debate for quite some time imo, but it ended up descending into personal bickering that has been one of the few things that has discouraged my enthusiasm for being a part of NR. I am firmly with Lentulus (I think it was Lentulus, if I am wrong apologies) when I say I want something to change, and for religious fights to stop. I think a large scale show of disapproval at the actions of the few might be an answer or part of an answer.
 
Besides, if NR and the RR are inextricably linked, I don't think a forum moderated by NR magistrates is truly the correct place to hold debates on varying religions. We can say the forum is a place where anything can be discussed, but imo discussing another religion's theology and proselytizing are sometimes hard to distinguish. Anyways, it was just an idea. So feel free to use it or disregard it as you like. =)
 
Optime Value,
Titus Annaeus Regulus
 
P.S. As long as the debate has some discernible purpose, I would say 'Hell yes, I'm for debatin' anything!' =) - I am an admiere of Hopkins. For a man with cerebral palsy to have done so much with so much gusto in a time when a disability could easily mean being excluded from all meaningful pursuits is truly inspirational.

Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:57 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)

Savete, quirites--
 
I would agree with Titus Anneus Regulus' proposal that we should simply not discuss religions onlist which aren't the Religio Romana--except that I've been told numerous times that the Roman forum was a place where anything and everything could be discussed and often was, heatedly.
 
I don't like how heated and bitter the discussions sometimes get, mind you, but that is the argument I've heard time and again, whenever people complain about bickering on the list and want it to be more strictly moderated.
 
Really, as long as we all behave as polite and considerate adults, I don't see a reason why any topic could not be discussed onlist.  When we cease acting like considerate adults, then I think discussions ought to be tabled.
 
"I never seen, heard, nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn't be talked about."  --Stephen Hopkins, from 1776
 
(one of my favorite quotes from that play.  (g)
 
Paulla Corva

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61444 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve,

A friend of mine has an uncle whose house is literally filled with books(haha pun!). He has collected so many books(mostly from auctions and library sales) that from floor to ceiling are stacked books. He even has stacks of books on his porch. There is no furniture on the 1st floor, just books. It's as if the books are being used to support the 2nd floor. I found a couple of books on plants and flowers from the 19th century that I liked, so he gave them to me for free. Such a nice man, and totally obsessive with books.

My collection of books is wicked small. I like to collect antique books but unfortunately not much money to do that as of late. The best book in my collection:  The Story of Gisli the Outlaw by Sir George Webbe Dasent published in 1866. It had been in the libraries of several nobles in England with their coat of arms included inside the cover. I also have a copy of The Poetical Works of Alfred Tennyson, Complete Edition from 1885.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


L Julia Aquila wrote:


>Last time I went there, I had three graduate students carrying
>boxes. It has been suggested I need to buy another house for my
>books.

Oh I understand perfectly. I would love to have a house for my books,
I recently had to remove all the furniture from my den to make way
for books I saved from a flooded storage.

>We had to reinforce the one I'm in -- weight of books.

Oh, it sounds like nirvana to me, a place i could get lost in. I like
old books with character, and sometimes they are even in a language I
can understand.* teases*

I enjoy reading the old and not well known text books on ancient
Roman History from the 19th century. Amazing the liberty that was
taken with history. However some of the bindings, when in good shape
are often exquisite.

>I'm kind'of lucky, we have friends who have an apartment
>in Constantinople. They go ski in Turkey and we use their apartment.

Very lucky indeed! Last time I was there the people I stayed with
spoke very little English but I was in the heart of the city and
young, so little bothered me.

Nice talking with you,

Vale

Julia Aquila

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61445 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
Salve,

Old books...


>Last time I went there, I had three graduate students carrying
>boxes. It has been suggested I need to buy another house for my
>books.

Oh I understand perfectly. I would love to have a house for my books,
I recently had to remove all the furniture from my den to make way
for books I saved from a flooded storage.

---------------
I'm sorry to hear about flooded storage. I recently saw two really sad, actually, tragically catastrophic situations. A few years back, a dear old professor of mine died. He had an extraordinary collection: 1st edition Goethe's Autobiography - signed, and a nice leather bound Cudworth System of the World are two I remember. When he died, his collection was passed on to another dear professor of mine (who also had a large collection) who also owned a bookstore. This is in Iowa. The second dear professor (we used to argue philosophy and religion at the top of our lungs walking up and down the streets of San Francisco all through the 80s -- while ending the debate, to drink or eat -- usually ending up at the Hyde Street pier (last stop being the traditional Irish cop pub where the Irish Coffee was invented) ended up in assisted living. This last summer, floods hit Iowa and many a good books were lost. I retrieved a picture that was met for me.
It has Karl Barth, Father Georges Florovsky, and my grandfather in it after a heavy day at the World Council of Churches. They all went out, got drunk, singing Mozart in the streets. Those Iowa floods destroyed a lot.
It is an odd place to think old books are there but it was a gold mine. I used it for my rare book trade business in San Francisco.

>We had to reinforce the one I'm in -- weight of books.

Oh, it sounds like nirvana to me, a place i could get lost in. I like
old books with character, and sometimes they are even in a language I
can understand.* teases*

I enjoy reading the old and not well known text books on ancient
Roman History from the 19th century. Amazing the liberty that was
taken with history. However some of the bindings, when in good shape
are often exquisite.

--------
Basically, we read. We have cats. But television is -- boring. Typically,
[I'm the cook in the family] I prepare the next day's meal [weekends I prepare bread and soup for the week] and we read. Camping, we read.
-------------

>I'm kind'of lucky, we have friends who have an apartment
>in Constantinople. They go ski in Turkey and we use their apartment.
----------------

Very lucky indeed! Last time I was there the people I stayed with
spoke very little English but I was in the heart of the city and
young, so little bothered me.
---------------
Investigate! Its cheaper than you might think! I'm supporting 3 sons
through college. We're poor. Switzerland is a great value. Once you get there, do the railpass. The Turkish Rivieria is relatively starving for drawing those drawn to the French or Italian. Its cheaper than Vegas.
Go! Go.
---------------------

Nice talking with you,
-----------------
Maybe we need a good Sodalitas Books.

Vale

Julia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61446 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Haha, am I the only one who keeps getting replies to a post before the post itself?

Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"

Salve Regulus,

That is on my todo list, when I was there in the early 90's I went
through pretty fast, on business, and Mitras is one reason, but, as
you know, there are other archeological interests as well.

> I
do not agree with more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic
Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention.

I have not made a personal conclusion regarding that, however I have
to allow the argument that each early civilization produced similar
gods depicting similar characteristics for similar purposes. As
humans underneath it all we are very similar:)

I also know that the evidence supporting your statement is very
compelling also.

Vale

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit
Armenia. I do not agree with
more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a
Hellenistic invention. There are a number of studies classicists
ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
cult of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -
- where did the cult come from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are
all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest Armenian churches are built
right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
>
Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L
Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
>
>
>
From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> Subject: Hagia Sophia
Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Regulus,
>
> And Bravo!
>
> It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
> book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can
walk
> around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the
natural
sites
> are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.
>
> Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
>
recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
> Mitras
altar was found underground.
>
> Thank you for this, it was very
nice.
>
> Vale
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In
Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <asempronius.
regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
 
> > Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend
another
> church to visit.
> > It is a basilica in the classic
Roman style from the 300s
(actually
> 350-380 CE?).
> > St
Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a
Roman
>
buliding was like.
> >  
> > But a little bit more on
Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
> >  
> > There is a common
perception or academic stereotype that the
> Christian Greek
> >
East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
> was "aristotelian" .
Contrary
> > to that perception, it turns out at the University of
> Constantinople one could study
> > all the classics but in
philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
> Philosopher, a title the West
> > borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
>
was at
> > Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied
"the
pagan
> Theologian",
> > Plato and his school.
> >  
> > So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated
in
Aristotle.
> Only a
> > few studied Plato because he was
too dangerous -- he was
> a "Theologian" .
> > Within Plato's
school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen
at
> the
time..
> >  
> > Shortly before the fall of the Eastern
Roman Empire/Byzantine
> Empire in
> > 1453 CE, Byzantine
scholars, including graduate faculty at the
> graduate
> >
school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities -
hence,
> > Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
>
Sophia
> > was, besides being a church.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: L Julia Aquila
<dis_pensible@ ...>
> > Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
"Return"
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Tuesday,
February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > ....and the Hagia Sophia!
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > LJA
> >
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61447 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve,
 
I once joined the Nova Roma Mithras lists. They seem very dead. I had book recommendations. Oh well...
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 12:39 AM

Salve Regulus,

That is on my todo list, when I was there in the early 90's I went
through pretty fast, on business, and Mitras is one reason, but, as
you know, there are other archeological interests as well.

> I do not agree with more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic
Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention.

I have not made a personal conclusion regarding that, however I have
to allow the argument that each early civilization produced similar
gods depicting similar characteristics for similar purposes. As
humans underneath it all we are very similar:)

I also know that the evidence supporting your statement is very
compelling also.

Vale

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with
more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a
Hellenistic invention. There are a number of studies classicists
ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
cult of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -
- where did the cult come from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are
all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest Armenian churches are built
right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Regulus,
>
> And Bravo!
>
> It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
> book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can
walk
> around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural
sites
> are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.
>
> Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
> recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
> Mitras altar was found underground.
>
> Thank you for this, it was very nice.
>
> Vale
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >  
> > Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
> church to visit.
> > It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s
(actually
> 350-380 CE?).
> > St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a
Roman
> buliding was like.
> >  
> > But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
> >  
> > There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
> Christian Greek
> > East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
> was "aristotelian" . Contrary
> > to that perception, it turns out at the University of
> Constantinople one could study
> > all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
> Philosopher, a title the West
> > borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
> was at
> > Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the
pagan
> Theologian",
> > Plato and his school.
> >  
> > So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in
Aristotle.
> Only a
> > few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
> a "Theologian" .
> > Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen
at
> the time..
> >  
> > Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
> Empire in
> > 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
> graduate
> > school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities -
hence,
> > Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
> Sophia
> > was, besides being a church.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> > Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > ....and the Hagia Sophia!
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > LJA
> >
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61448 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve,

Yes a lot of the other lists seem dead. I would make the prediction that if we had proper forums instead of separate yahoo groups we'd have more participants involved in discussions for those topics.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:

Salve,
 
I once joined the Nova Roma Mithras lists. They seem very dead. I had book recommendations. Oh well...
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

-

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61449 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: AW: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Was Valete
L. Livia Plauta omnibus sal.

I have to agree 100% with my friend Lentulus (he means "sensitive",
not "sensible" here).
Lentulus is sensible: let's hope we'll always have more sensible
people than oversensitive ones.

> The normal way would be that everybody is allowed to speak about
all things Roman and Nova Roman (faith is one of these things) while
Christians don't become so defensive and sensible, and polytheists
don't mind discussions about Christian topics: that would be the
normal course of action.
>
>
Optime valete,
Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61450 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
Beautiful poem, Petroni!

>
> Et surrexerunt subito tua templa, Quirine,
> Priscorum aeuorum quae se ex puluere rumpunt
> Et uitam renouant quam Romae quondam habuerunt.
> Sic faciunt, quia mi sunt unguenda arma Quirini
> Quae diebus pingui pice festis unguere fas est.
> Iam Portunalis flamen feci sacra rite,
> Dixi certaque uerba ut uiuat in pace deorum
> Roma Noua et uigeant antiquo more Quirites.
>
> Prospere ualete.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61451 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: gaudeamus in Quirinalium
And another beautiful poem, Cato! Though in a very different style
from Dexter's.
>
>
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Romulus, deified,
> looks down on Rome with
> a laugh deep and loud.
> "Look!" he says, pointing his
> sesquipedalian
> finger at us, "Go on
> now - make me proud!
>
> Roma in glory! I
> long to see Her raise
> once more to the heavens the
> praise of Her gods!
> Even if currently
> (post-Milvio-pontically)
> another Someone has
> weighted the odds!
>
> Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva and
> Neptune all
> stand right here with Me
> just waiting for prayer!
> Not just on those days that
> diesnefastically
> command great festivals -
> show Us you care!"
>
> Higgledy-piggledy
> Hail Nova Roma!
> Your citizens stand in a
> heavenly glow.
> plebs and patricians* in
> amicability
> stand side by side
> a great future to sow!
>
>
> *especially patricians. <cough>
>
>
> Valete!
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61452 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Salve,

Probably not, this is the land of yahoo after all:)

Vale..
LJA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61453 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: ;-) Twisted History
Salve,
 
Humor is not a mood lightener. It is a mood deepener. Good cheer and good faith
are deeper than peoples' usual moods. You did well.
 
Thanks,
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ;-) Twisted History
To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:42 PM

Avete;

Just thought we could use a mood lightener ,-)

Semper Amicus - Venator

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61454 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Cato Annaeo Regulo sal.

Salve!

Maybe we should appoint you our Oracle :)

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61455 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve Semproni,
I don't think the Furies ever grew completely domesticated.
Believing they are is a noxious mistake.
They keep flying around us, and it's up to us not to panic into
letting them take over our lives.
No amount of ignoring them can make them disappear completely,
though, so we'd better keep on the lookout.
Optime vale,
Livia


>
> Salve,
> Maybe it is partially Cato's fault if he is really Greek (not
really). Didn't those Greek guys domesticate the Furies into becoming
Fates listening to all cases patiently from the court above? I think
we have some Furies running a'muck. Either those Greek guys didn't do
their job or we Romans re-unscrewed the bottle, ;)
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
wrote:
>
>
> From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Piss off Minucua!
>
> Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I'll remind you that people are going to remind and suggest
things
> to
> > you once in a while. I suggest you get over it.
> >
> > Vale
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> > http://minucia. ciarin.com
> >
> >
> >
> > gaiuspopilliuslaena s wrote:
> > >
> > > Laenas Maior
> > >
> > > Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61456 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve,
No, read Swift on how screwed up yahoo land really is. The service begins to show how reality can imitate fiction.
Vale.
ASR

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> wrote:

From: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...>
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:05 AM

Haha, am I the only one who keeps getting replies to a post before the post itself?

Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"

Salve Regulus,

That is on my todo list, when I was there in the early 90's I went
through pretty fast, on business, and Mitras is one reason, but, as
you know, there are other archeological interests as well.

> I do not agree with more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic
Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention.

I have not made a personal conclusion regarding that, however I have
to allow the argument that each early civilization produced similar
gods depicting similar characteristics for similar purposes. As
humans underneath it all we are very similar:)

I also know that the evidence supporting your statement is very
compelling also.

Vale

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with
more contemporary scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a
Hellenistic invention. There are a number of studies classicists
ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
cult of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -
- where did the cult come from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are
all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest Armenian churches are built
right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Regulus,
>
> And Bravo!
>
> It has been a very long time for me, but have you been to the old
> book marketplace in the Grand Bazaar? It is amazing how one can
walk
> around that city and suddenly come upon...Rome. But the natural
sites
> are also beautiful esp. the healing waters.
>
> Been a while since I have been to Rome, but that has been more
> recent, but I seem to remember that nearby St.Paul's an ancient
> Mitras altar was found underground.
>
> Thank you for this, it was very nice.
>
> Vale
> Julia Aquila
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >  
> > Yes, Hagia Sophia is magnificent. I would also recommend another
> church to visit.
> > It is a basilica in the classic Roman style from the 300s
(actually
> 350-380 CE?).
> > St Paul Outside the Walls, Rome. It is worth study of what a
Roman
> buliding was like.
> >  
> > But a little bit more on Hagia Sophia and Byzantium.
> >  
> > There is a common perception or academic stereotype that the
> Christian Greek
> > East was "platonic" while the Christian Latin West
> was "aristotelian" . Contrary
> > to that perception, it turns out at the University of
> Constantinople one could study
> > all the classics but in philosophy -- only Aristotle (the
> Philosopher, a title the West
> > borrowed from the East). The graduate school for advanced studies
> was at
> > Hagia Sophia. There, besides Church Fathers, one studied "the
pagan
> Theologian",
> > Plato and his school.
> >  
> > So, in a way, for most Byzantines, they were educated in
Aristotle.
> Only a
> > few studied Plato because he was too dangerous -- he was
> a "Theologian" .
> > Within Plato's school was all the Neo-Platonists as it was seen
at
> the time..
> >  
> > Shortly before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine
> Empire in
> > 1453 CE, Byzantine scholars, including graduate faculty at the
> graduate
> > school of Hagia Sophia, were guests at Italian universities -
hence,
> > Renaissance is also indirectly due to the institution that Hagia
> Sophia
> > was, besides being a church.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> > Subject: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > ....and the Hagia Sophia!
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > LJA
> >
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61457 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
Agreed. I believe that is the lesson of the Greek play where they are "domesticated".
Vigilance. I'll add a Stoic twist. Vigilance is inward; the external world happens as it
happens.
 
[I replied to you earlier but it is on my other computer saved].
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:24 AM

Salve Semproni,
I don't think the Furies ever grew completely domesticated.
Believing they are is a noxious mistake.
They keep flying around us, and it's up to us not to panic into
letting them take over our lives.
No amount of ignoring them can make them disappear completely,
though, so we'd better keep on the lookout.
Optime vale,
Livia

>
> Salve,
> Maybe it is partially Cato's fault if he is really Greek (not
really). Didn't those Greek guys domesticate the Furies into becoming
Fates listening to all cases patiently from the court above? I think
we have some Furies running a'muck. Either those Greek guys didn't do
their job or we Romans re-unscrewed the bottle, ;)
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
> From: gaiuspopilliuslaena s <gaiuspopillius@ ...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Piss off Minucua!
>
> Laenas
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I'll remind you that people are going to remind and suggest
things
> to
> > you once in a while. I suggest you get over it.
> >
> > Vale
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> > http://minucia. ciarin.com
> >
> >
> >
> > gaiuspopilliuslaena s wrote:
> > >
> > > Laenas Maior
> > >
> > > Please cease "reminding" me and/or making "sucggestions" to me.
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61458 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.

Salve.

Isn't Mithraism originally from Persia as well?

"Thus also the Persians, mystically signifying the descent of the soul into the sublunary
regions, and its regression from it, initiate the mystic (or him who is admitted to the
arcane sacred rites) in a place which they denominate a cavern. For, as Eubulus says,
Zoroaster was the first who consecrated in the neighbouring mountains of Persia, a
spontaneously produced cave, florid, and having fountains, in honour of Mithra, the maker
and father of all things; a cave, according to Zoroaster, bearing a resemblance of the
world, which was fabricated by Mithra. But the things contained in the cavern being
arranged according to commensurate intervals, were symbols of the mundane elements
and climates." (Porphyry, On the Cave of the Nymphs 2.11-12)

I thought that the evidentiary problem was connecting Roman-era Mithraism with more
ancient Mithraism.

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with more contemporary
scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention. There are a number
of studies classicists ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the cult
of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -- where did the cult come
from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest
Armenian churches are built right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61459 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
lol Who needs the Sibylline Books when you have the magic of broken-Yahoo at your fingertips? Just kidding.
 
Vale,
 
T. Annaeus Regulus

Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:53 PM
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"

Cato Annaeo Regulo sal.

Salve!

Maybe we should appoint you our Oracle :)

Vale,

Cato

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61460 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Maior Marcellae spd:
apologies here is what I wrote to Varro in English, the entire text:

" Varro: this man doesn't speak French. To say 'Madame' in English is
rather sexist, if were were speaking French instead of English and
you said "Mademoiselle" [Miss] intstead of Maior or M. Hortensia, it
is the same thing. I hope I've explained the nuances of our
conversation."

In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected, it's infantilizing
and one's marital status is of no importance. So they use a
generic 'Madame' 'Frau'. In Nova Roma we don't need this as there is
a common Roman form to denote anyone, irrespective of sex: cognomen
or praenomen & nomen .

Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
a good laugh over it;-)
optime vale
Maior




Salve Varro;
cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais
et
vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'..c'est le meme
chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
valeas
Maior
>
> what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
>
> Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like,
or not.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to
determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.
>
> And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a
translation for those who aren't.
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia. ciarin.com
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
>
>
> Cato Varo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
encore utilisé partout, comme
> un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
certains gens comme Maior ne
> sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61461 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Cato resurgans...
Ave Cato;

Thank you for reconsidering.

--

I "gave up the Church for Lent" in 1975; Jesus and I had a "talk"
later that year, amicably parting ways.

After a 14 year trek, I happened upon Heathenry (Asatru, Odinism,
Germanic Paganism, Religio Septentrionalis) as the Faithway - Belief
System, which spoke most truly to my heart.

Yep, Venator the Heathen believes in the existence of Jesus; just, not
in his divinity.

For several years I was adamantly anti-Christian, but came to realize
that position is unimaginative, untenable, unsociable and
unproductive.

There have been and are (all told) billions of Christians in the
history of the past 2 millenia (including many generations of my
ancestors), in staggering variety of relationship to the teachings of
the Rabbi Yeshua ben Yusef. These teachings contain many nuggets of
truth and wisdom for most all to see.

I have read through 9 different versions of the "Bible." My favorite
is the translation/abridgment that Thomas Jefferson penned:
http://tinyurl.com/b4g6kj

As a man who tries to emulate Odin's search for knowledge and wisdom,
I range widely - about 10,000 books, and about 6,000 booklets,
pamphlets, brochures, magazines, article clippings, music albums,
movies, and so forth in my house, plus a terabyte or so of disk space
(7 working computers of various complexity)...from topics Neolithic to
Nanolithic.

I possess no impressive string of letters after my name, which would
indicate recognition of my learning as a great and wonderful
achievement, though Machinatrix does have a Master's degree in
Electrical Engineering, specializing in digital image processing and
electro-optics. ;-) I'm just a man who enjoys reading, thinking,
conversing and learning.

I find no joy in getting "the last word."

I am secure enough in my successes and failures that I have no need to
belittle others; differing thoughts and opinions neither threaten my
life nor my beliefs.

I try and present myself with the dignity I learned from my elders,
their peers, my teachers, and the others who I have come to admire.

Being an adult, I try to approach others as such; calmly, rationally,
with no emotional investment in photons dancing on a screen in front
of my eyes; Venator the Cyber-Stoic, one could say.

It offends my sense of propriety when folks take liberties in the name
of "freedom of speech."

With great liberty, I was taught by my parents and other elders, comes
great responsibility.

With seeking community, comes compromise and adherence to community standards.

I have witnessed self professed adults (if not openly, then tacitly)
of this community write like spoiled, intemperate brats.

And, Gods help us, they have been raised to positions of trust and
authority amongst us.

I ask, in all humility, that the Censors, Consuls, Tribunes, Praetors,
senior Senators and Pontiffs take a hard (very HARD) look...who is
REALLY of use to the long-term Growth of Nova Roma?

As the harvested wheat contains chaff, which must be discarded to gain
good grain...

As the mined ore contains dross, which must be refined to gain gold,
silver, iron...

As the fermented mash contains water, which must be distilled to gain whiskey...

So does Nova Roma contain men and women who do not advance that which we seek...

I call upon those who are in authority, by the votes of the
People...winnow the chaff...smelt off the dross...distill the
"brandy."

Rid us of those who continually carp and belittle and "must" have an
opinion, however ill informed, whether follower of the Cultus Deorum,
or are allied Pagan, Christian, Jew, Buddhist or other...

semper semper - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61462 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,
I have joint citizenship US/German. I spend about a third of the year in Germany at family homes and travel in Europe from the family home-bases. Summers, the university will occasionally shell out the funds to the Collegium Philosophicum at the northern Italian villa in Perugia. Given my travels, please allow me to say the below is crap.

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:54 AM

Maior Marcellae spd:
apologies here is what I wrote to Varro in English, the entire text:

" Varro: this man doesn't speak French. To say 'Madame' in English is
rather sexist, if were were speaking French instead of English and
you said "Mademoiselle" [Miss] intstead of Maior or M. Hortensia, it
is the same thing. I hope I've explained the nuances of our
conversation. "

In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected, it's infantilizing
and one's marital status is of no importance. So they use a
generic 'Madame' 'Frau'. In Nova Roma we don't need this as there is
a common Roman form to denote anyone, irrespective of sex: cognomen
or praenomen & nomen .

Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
a good laugh over it;-)
optime vale
Maior

Salve Varro;
cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais
et
vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'.. c'est le meme
chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
valeas
Maior
>
> what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
>
> Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like,
or not.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to
determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.
>
> And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a
translation for those who aren't.
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia. ciarin.com
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
>
>
> Cato Varo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
encore utilisé partout, comme
> un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
certains gens comme Maior ne
> sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61463 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

When I was in germany I was never called fraulein or frau. But I don't think it really matters much.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:

Salve,
I have joint citizenship US/German. I spend about a third of the year in Germany at family homes and travel in Europe from the family home-bases. Summers, the university will occasionally shell out the funds to the Collegium Philosophicum at the northern Italian villa in Perugia. Given my travels, please allow me to say the below is crap.

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:54 AM

Maior Marcellae spd:
apologies here is what I wrote to Varro in English, the entire text:

" Varro: this man doesn't speak French. To say 'Madame' in English is
rather sexist, if were were speaking French instead of English and
you said "Mademoiselle" [Miss] intstead of Maior or M. Hortensia, it
is the same thing. I hope I've explained the nuances of our
conversation. "

In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected, it's infantilizing
and one's marital status is of no importance. So they use a
generic 'Madame' 'Frau'. In Nova Roma we don't need this as there is
a common Roman form to denote anyone, irrespective of sex: cognomen
or praenomen & nomen .

Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
a good laugh over it;-)
optime vale
Maior

Salve Varro;
cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais
et
vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'.. c'est le meme
chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
valeas
Maior
>
> what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
>
> Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like,
or not.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to
determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.
>
> And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a
translation for those who aren't.
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia. ciarin.com
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
>
>
> Cato Varo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
encore utilisé partout, comme
> un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
certains gens comme Maior ne
> sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61464 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Cato Annaeo Regulo omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete!

Annaeus Regulus, whatever works :D

But this brings up a question: could *anyone* be an oracle? I mean, obviously there were
the Big Shots like Cumae and Delphi, but what happened if someone just started having
visions or prophesying? What would the Roman response be? How did the Romans
differentiate between hucksters and the real thing?

Vale,

Cato


Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Annaeus Regulus" <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> wrote:
>
> lol Who needs the Sibylline Books when you have the magic of broken-Yahoo at your
fingertips? Just kidding.
>
> Vale,
>
> T. Annaeus Regulus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61465 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"

Salve,

 

>He had an extraordinary collection: 1st edition Goethe's Autobiography - signed, and a >nice leather bound >Cudworth System of the World are two I remember

 

I can only dream. I can almost guarantee I will not own such a book, I will have to be content to touch one from time to time ;)

I collect new editions but they are for the most part new. One's I am not "attached" to and hopefully will supplement the meager income of old age, which it not too far in the future. The flood did take quite a few rare editions and a good number of my classics, some given to me by my gr-grandpere. They were "in storage" for "protection."

My two favorite Volumes are two "firsts" although not truly firsts (now that would be something), 1887 edition of Gustave Dore collection and an 1886 edition or Milton's Paradise Lost with Dore illustrations again given to me by a grandparent. Milton is in good shape, the other I have lovingly used for as long as I can remember and I think it is beyond salvation. :)  Gorgeous hand tooled bindings that had seen better days and exquisite aureate cover art.

 

 

>we used to argue philosophy and religion at the top of our lungs walking up and down >the streets of San >Francisco all through the 80s -- while ending the debate, to drink or >eat

 

Sounds familiar, but my time in SF was in the 70's and I was still listening and learning. I wound up traveling with a group of grad students and a professor from NYU and Columbia. I was a year shy of being 18 but they didn't question my age because I had graduated early. It inspired my educational path in a very positive way.

Now we did arguing with some "jesus-freak" sects once but at the time nobody argued much unless you were at a war protest. Still I managed to have many many unusual experiences, esp. with the Sufis. *laughs*

 

 

> It has Karl Barth, Father Georges Florovsky, and my grandfather in it after a heavy day >at the World >Council of Churches. They all went out, got drunk, singing Mozart in the >streets.

 

 Orthodox, Ah Catholic Dark. :)  Mozart? An aria I bet. Something from Don Giovanni. I prefer to sing Rachmaninoff myself. Verdi also... and...

 

 

>It is an odd place to think old books are there but it was a gold mine. I used it for my >rare book trade >business in San Francisco.

 

Neat business, I always wanted to do a little trading and sellingÂ… ever read John Dunning, Booked to Die? I really enjoy his work. Not particularly challenging but he is a good story teller. And he has a love for books.

 

 

> Basically, we read. We have cats. But television is -- boring. Typically,

> [I'm the cook in the family] I prepare the next day's meal [weekends I prepare bread > >and soup for the >week] and we read. Camping, we read.

 

 I could use some more boring; to me it equals peace and solitude. I am behind in my reading; I have two book shelves of books waiting to be read and three in varied stages of being read.

 

 

> Investigate! Its cheaper than you might think! I'm supporting 3 sons

> through college. We're poor. Switzerland is a great value. Once you get there, do the railpass. The Turkish >Rivieria is relatively starving for drawing those drawn to the French or Italian. Its cheaper than Vegas.

> Go! Go.

 

I'm going! I'm going!

 

 

> Maybe we need a good Sodalitas Books.

 

People might probably be too busy reading to visit:)

 

Vale

 

Julia Aquila


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61466 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Salve Cato,

> But this brings up a question: could *anyone* be an oracle?

Today some people believe that anyone can develop such an attribute;
some believe it only comes naturally. The Greeks thought it was a
gift, an inherent attribute as most of the ancients did.

> but what happened if someone just started having visions or
prophesying

Today it would probably mean a trip to the local mental health
hospital or to the ER to check for drug ingestion ;) In antiquity,
and you will have to look this up because I am too tired to sift
through sources, it might get you the job depending upon who you are,
what your station in life is, who you are related to and having fine
looks might also help.

> How did the Romans differentiate between hucksters and the real
thing?

Results?

Vale

Julia Aquila


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Annaeo Regulo omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> Annaeus Regulus, whatever works :D
>
> But this brings up a question: could *anyone* be an oracle? I
mean, obviously there were
> the Big Shots like Cumae and Delphi, but what happened if someone
just started having
> visions or prophesying? What would the Roman response be? How did
the Romans
> differentiate between hucksters and the real thing?
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Titus Annaeus Regulus" <t.annaevsregvlvs@>
wrote:
> >
> > lol Who needs the Sibylline Books when you have the magic of
broken-Yahoo at your
> fingertips? Just kidding.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > T. Annaeus Regulus
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61467 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Congrats on finding sexism where it doesn't exist. Minucia and you,
Maior, weren't the only ones to have been told to shut up before.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Marcellae spd:
> apologies here is what I wrote to Varro in English, the entire text:
>
> " Varro: this man doesn't speak French. To say 'Madame' in English is
> rather sexist, if were were speaking French instead of English and
> you said "Mademoiselle" [Miss] intstead of Maior or M. Hortensia, it
> is the same thing. I hope I've explained the nuances of our
> conversation."
>
> In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
> Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected, it's infantilizing
> and one's marital status is of no importance. So they use a
> generic 'Madame' 'Frau'. In Nova Roma we don't need this as there is
> a common Roman form to denote anyone, irrespective of sex: cognomen
> or praenomen & nomen .
>
> Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
> the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
> a good laugh over it;-)
> optime vale
> Maior
>
>
>
>
> Salve Varro;
> cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
> c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais
> et
> vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'..c'est le meme
> chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
> valeas
> Maior
> >
> > what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
> gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
> >
> > Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like,
> or not.
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to
> determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.
> >
> > And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a
> translation for those who aren't.
> > Vale
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> > http://minucia. ciarin.com
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cato Varo sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
> encore utilisé partout, comme
> > un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
> certains gens comme Maior ne
> > sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
> familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> > mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61468 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: Cato resurgans...
Cato Stephano Venatori sal.

Salve!

It sounds like you're doing a good job of practicing a mix of the cardinal virtues the way
Aristotle implied was most beneficial. You are much farther along a path of calm and
peaceful centeredness (is that a word?) than I am :)

I must admit that although I consider myself fairly rational, I have a stubborn streak a mile
wide. Maybe living in NYC, or being of Sicilian descent, or a combo of these - or maybe
it's just my own peculiar nature - brings out a very grumpy side when certain specific
buttons are pushed. I think it's nonsense to pretend that the Romans were these stiff,
unemotional marble statues, graceful and elegant and unemotional and wise beyond
current comprehension; and I think there is some virtue to be found in shouting every now
and then, rolling up your ideological sleeves and slugging it out.

But the key (as you have very nicely described) is to not let that ideological slugfest
degrade your emotional detachment or willingness to learn, which is what I did in the last
few days. It is one thing to come out of the corner swinging and quite another to forget
that there *is* a corner.

One of the elements that is most unfortunately stacked against us is our physical
separation as a community. I remember being in Rome with Agricola, Astur, Cordus,
Albucius, and a host of others and discussing things like these - albeit usually legal
and/or constitutional issues, not religious ones - and even though we had very widely-
differing views, we were still sitting at the same table eating and drinking together.

I remember having a very lively and antagonistic discussion with Fuscus here in the
Forum, but when we met in person in Rome (and there were a lot of people present who
had placed bets on which of us would come out of the restaurant alive) we became quite
good friends, and actually had a couple of meals together during the rest of my stay in
Rome after the Conventus. We still disagreed strongly, and were quite vocal about our
disagreement (complete with hand-waving, pasta-flinging, and table-slapping - but we
never spilled the wine), but being able to sit with someone and talk face-to-face has an
ameliorative effect that no amount of writing can.

How do we get there?

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61469 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Maior Regulo Marcellae spd;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4905072.stm : the BBC News
eminists in France have petitioned the French government to remove the
title Mademoiselle or Miss from official administrative documents.

http://everything2.com/e2node/Fraulein : Popular

http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/doddwj/student/dodd/gorny.htm
scholarly:

Hildegard Gorny
'Feministische Sprachkritik'
in G. Stötzel & M. Wengeler (eds.),
Kontroverse Begriffe. Geschichte des öffentlichen Sprachgebrauchs in
der Bundesrepublik Deutschland,
de Gruyter, Berlin & New York 1995, pp. 517-62.

) Fräulein - use of `Frau' to refer to both married and unmarried
women. `Fraulein' was recognised as being a diminutive and
discriminatory form, while giving out too much information; previously
a male employer could have decided to employ only unmarried - i.e.
available - `Fräuleins' in his workforce, for example.

-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> I have joint citizenship US/German. I spend about a third of the
year in Germany at family homes and travel in Europe from the family
home-bases. Summers, the university will occasionally shell out the
funds to the Collegium Philosophicum at the northern Italian villa in
Perugia. Given my travels, please allow me to say the below is crap.
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maior <rory12001@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maior Marcellae spd:
> apologies here is what I wrote to Varro in English, the entire text:
>
> " Varro: this man doesn't speak French. To say 'Madame' in English is
> rather sexist, if were were speaking French instead of English and
> you said "Mademoiselle" [Miss] intstead of Maior or M. Hortensia, it
> is the same thing. I hope I've explained the nuances of our
> conversation. "
>
> In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
> Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected, it's infantilizing
> and one's marital status is of no importance. So they use a
> generic 'Madame' 'Frau'. In Nova Roma we don't need this as there is
> a common Roman form to denote anyone, irrespective of sex: cognomen
> or praenomen & nomen .
>
> Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
> the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
> a good laugh over it;-)
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> Salve Varro;
> cet homme ne parle pas francias. Pour dire 'madame' en Anglaise
> c'est plutot sexiste, si nous parlions en Francais au lieu d'Anglais
> et
> vous diriez "mademoiselle' non "Maior our M. Hortensia'.. c'est le meme
> chose. J'espere que j'explique les nuances de notre conversation.
> valeas
> Maior
> >
> > what is the difference between "madame" and "Très chère madame"?
> gues the difference between impolite an dpolite speech
> >
> > Only depends if your social background is a low one, ghetto-like,
> or not.
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@>
> > Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Actually both of you are correct. It depends on the context to
> determine if it is meant as sexist or a term of respect.
> >
> > And it'd be great if y'all french speakers could provide a
> translation for those who aren't.
> > Vale
> > - Annia Minucia Marcella
> >
> > http://minucia. ciarin.com
> >
> > Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cato Varo sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > Il n'est pas "sexiste" à tous d'utiliser le terme "madame", il est
> encore utilisé partout, comme
> > un terme de respect formel de la conversation. Peut-être que
> certains gens comme Maior ne
> > sont pas exposés à des situations d'un niveau social qui est
> familier avec ce type d'utilisation,
> > mais ne pas avoir peur de l'utiliser. Il est tout à fait correct.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61470 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Cato Iuliuae Aquilae sal.

Salve!

You wrote: "The Greeks thought it was a gift, an inherent attribute as most of the ancients
did."

It just popped into my mind because between Annaeus Regulus' comment and re-reading
the bit about that Iulius Proculus who saw Romulus in a vision, it occurred to me that for
the ancients it *seems* like oracular/visionary power could drop out of nowhere and onto
anyone. Iulius Proculus was believed specifically because he was just an ordinary, honest
citizen, and it didn't seem odd that a regular person could be visited by a god.


You also wrote:

"Results?"

LOL

Yeah, I guess that would work :)

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61471 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Cato Maiori sal.

Salve!

If you read the everything2's explanation, it specifically refers to "feminists" as disliking
the term; under that bit is the actual dictionary definition, which says "In Germany, a
young lady; an unmarried woman". The BBC bit also is about feminists who dislike the
term.

All due respect, Maior, going to a feminist to back up claims of sexism is like going to the
Orthodox Church in America's website to get a balanced perspective on paganism

;)



I just spoke with an actual, real live German (an unmarried woman, as a matter of fact) and
she let me know that "fraulein" is not considered to have sexist connotations in Germany;
there is a faint hint of the same kind of negative connotation that English attaches to
"spinster", however, when used to address an adult German woman who is not married and
who is the same age or older than the speaker.

What a ridiculous conversation :D


Vale bene!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Regulo Marcellae spd;
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4905072.stm : the BBC News
> eminists in France have petitioned the French government to remove the
> title Mademoiselle or Miss from official administrative documents.
>
> http://everything2.com/e2node/Fraulein : Popular
>
> http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/doddwj/student/dodd/gorny.htm
> scholarly:
>
> Hildegard Gorny
> 'Feministische Sprachkritik'
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61472 From: Ellen Catalina Date: 2009-02-17
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Salve

I am glad you are back, Cato.

Signed, a lurking pagan Nova Roma citizen.

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Lyn Dowling <ldowling@...> wrote:
From: Lyn Dowling <ldowling@...>
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 1:19 PM

Salve
 
Welcome back, Cato!
 
Vale
L. A. M.

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Gaius Equitius Cato
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:57 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] (unknown)

Cato omnibus SPD

Salvete.

To have announced my resignation in anger and frustration was a petty act. I withdraw it. It
is not Roman to simply give up. I should have stood back and collected myself before acting..

Onward and upward.

Valete,

Cato

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.10.25/1957 - Release Date: 02/17/09 07:07:00


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61473 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Salve Cato!

> It just popped into my mind because between Annaeus Regulus'
comment and re-reading
> the bit about that Iulius Proculus who saw Romulus in a vision, it
occurred to me that for
> the ancients it *seems* like oracular/visionary power could drop
out of nowhere and onto
> anyone. Iulius Proculus was believed specifically because he was
just an ordinary, honest
> citizen, and it didn't seem odd that a regular person could be
visited by a god.

Well, I guess the gods can just drop into anyone they want to :)
Greeks saw the attribute as divine and so it was a gift from the gods
but, actually now that I am giving it more thought (without doing
seven other things) they did teach the art of divination to certain
people. Xenophon called diviners technicians of the divine but I
think he may have meant the magoi, any of which could also have been
seers. Proculus was sane, and sane seers were often ¡§made¡¨ that way
or communed with the divine though external means such as
interpreting dreams, sorts, or some other divination method. The
insane/ ones, well they came by it divinely, possession, and they
were generally femaleļ Some scholars believe the Pythia was inhaling
gases that caused the ¡§visions.¡¨ Regardless, it was divine, whether
trained or insane (natural) the gods make a human a prophet/ess.
You know I guess it wasn¡¦t much different than today except there
are some who think the gods have nothing to do it with it.
Now the Romans, I am going to venture a guess here, had many methods
of determining the will of the gods so maybe this contributed to them
not having a dependency upon prophets, who might draw sorts or sleep
in a sheepskin.

I¡¦ll have to look into this more, interesting. Good night amici:)

Vale

Julia Aquila



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato"
<mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iuliuae Aquilae sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> You wrote: "The Greeks thought it was a gift, an inherent
attribute as most of the ancients
> did."
>
> It just popped into my mind because between Annaeus Regulus'
comment and re-reading
> the bit about that Iulius Proculus who saw Romulus in a vision, it
occurred to me that for
> the ancients it *seems* like oracular/visionary power could drop
out of nowhere and onto
> anyone. Iulius Proculus was believed specifically because he was
just an ordinary, honest
> citizen, and it didn't seem odd that a regular person could be
visited by a god.
>
>
> You also wrote:
>
> "Results?"
>
> LOL
>
> Yeah, I guess that would work :)
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61474 From: Ellen Catalina Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
I love the word "pagan". If it has negative associations to some, so be it. I like the word "heathen" too (one from the heath) but to me that word means a person who practices Asatru, so I won't call myself heathen out of respect for, well, the heathens.

My only problem with the word "pagan" is that people associate it with Wicca and witchcraft which is a bummer because I don't want to be mistaken for Wiccan.

Of course, strict adherents of Religio Romana can just be called "reconstructionists" but that doesn't sound very spiritual.

Polytheist is a good blanket term.

As for me, I consider myself neo-pagan.


--- On Tue, 2/17/09, philippe cardon <philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:
From: philippe cardon <philippe.cardon01@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:00 AM

he can become pagan if he will, i shall be happy to welcome him
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

Salve Varro,
 
<looking around> Well, this Christian doesn't believe you're dead, but thinks you deserve all the respect in the world.
 
Vale bene,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:31 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

you're right pagan is a chistain word but i use it,
 
& because we lack of a better word
2 because doing that i say to christains, you believe we are dead, we are alive!
 
varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete

Historically, it meant country dweller in pre-christian times. As a religious term, it is a Christian coinage and became their religious designation for a superstitious backwards redneck hick. In that sense, it is similar to the early religious usage, again a Christian invention, of the term heathen (except heathen also carries a satanic connotation in the early usages).

--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> wrote:

From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 1:37 AM

Salve,

Why do you think the word "pagan" comes with a negative, insulting connotation?
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia. ciarin.com


Lyn Dowling wrote:
Salve, Varro,
 
I don't fear pagans. In fact, I don't apply that word to Nova Romans because it comes with a negative, insulting connotation. But regardless of what non-monotheists call themselves, I don't fear, or dislike, them. If I did, I wouldn't be here, would I?
 
The people who bother me are the people who believe in nothing save themselves.
 
Vale,
L. Aemilia


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova- Roma@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of philippe cardon
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

AS  christians left no place for pagans in rome (and after all, Rome was founded as a pagan state isn't it) whose state religion was the religio, they can't find astonish some don't fear them in NR - because they fear the pagans must leave one time more
 
i see the fear at the side of the pagans not at the side of the christians
Varo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

Salve Lentulus,

> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.

Well said.

> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen,

I agree.

> I very much hope he reconsider this.
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.

I agree. He will be held to the same expectations and conduct in
accordance with Roman Virtues.

Vale,

Julia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@ ...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.
>
>
> Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach
to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best
fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did
not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the
faith of many good Romans.
>
> Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's
absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.
>
> Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not
to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at
least for a 1700 years now.
>
> CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST
BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.
>
> I very much hope he reconsider this.
>
> I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to
stay. I did this.
>
>
> Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.
>
>
> --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato quirites SPD
>
>
>
> Salvete.
>
>
>
> I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature,
and any and all positions I
>
> hold as scribe.
>
>
>
> I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the
current sole Curule Aedile.
>
>
>
> I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information
regarding me contained in any
>
> medium whatsoever immediately.
>
>
>
> For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure..
>
>
>
> "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)
>
>
>
> Valete
>
>
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
>
> La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
> antispam e messenger integrato.
> http://it.mail. yahoo.com/ Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ 
>


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61475 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Salve,

Depending on the context, I call myself, Heathen, Pagan, polytheist, or
ASH. All of these terms are fine with me.

Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com



Ellen Catalina wrote:
>
> I love the word "pagan". If it has negative associations to some, so
> be it. I like the word "heathen" too (one from the heath) but to me
> that word means a person who practices Asatru, so I won't call myself
> heathen out of respect for, well, the heathens.
>
> My only problem with the word "pagan" is that people associate it with
> Wicca and witchcraft which is a bummer because I don't want to be
> mistaken for Wiccan.
>
> Of course, strict adherents of Religio Romana can just be called
> "reconstructionists" but that doesn't sound very spiritual.
>
> Polytheist is a good blanket term.
>
> As for me, I consider myself neo-pagan.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61476 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Salve;
Recon is pretty descriptive, but pagan works for me too. Over at the
Religio list a few years back, people were against pagan but the
witches and wiccans have done a lot to make paganism mainstream. So
more power to them. I'm fine with any word really.
Maior
>
> Depending on the context, I call myself, Heathen, Pagan,
polytheist, or
> ASH. All of these terms are fine with me.
>
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia.ciarin.com
>
>
>
> Ellen Catalina wrote:
> >
> > I love the word "pagan". If it has negative associations to some,
so
> > be it. I like the word "heathen" too (one from the heath) but to
me
> > that word means a person who practices Asatru, so I won't call
myself
> > heathen out of respect for, well, the heathens.
> >
> > My only problem with the word "pagan" is that people associate it
with
> > Wicca and witchcraft which is a bummer because I don't want to be
> > mistaken for Wiccan.
> >
> > Of course, strict adherents of Religio Romana can just be called
> > "reconstructionists" but that doesn't sound very spiritual.
> >
> > Polytheist is a good blanket term.
> >
> > As for me, I consider myself neo-pagan.
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61477 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Pagan and Heathen as religious terms/ was Valete
Salve,

I recall  a few people who disliked being called an "earth based " religion so didn't like being called pagan based on that association.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


Maior wrote:

Salve;
Recon is pretty descriptive, but pagan works for me too. Over at the
Religio list a few years back, people were against pagan but the
witches and wiccans have done a lot to make paganism mainstream. So
more power to them. I'm fine with any word really.
Maior
>
> Depending on the context, I call myself, Heathen, Pagan,
polytheist, or
> ASH. All of these terms are fine with me.
>
> Vale
> - Annia Minucia Marcella
>
> http://minucia. ciarin.com
>
>
>
> Ellen Catalina wrote:
> >
> > I love the word "pagan". If it has negative associations to some,
so
> > be it. I like the word "heathen" too (one from the heath) but to
me
> > that word means a person who practices Asatru, so I won't call
myself
> > heathen out of respect for, well, the heathens.
> >
> > My only problem with the word "pagan" is that people associate it
with
> > Wicca and witchcraft which is a bummer because I don't want to be
> > mistaken for Wiccan.
> >
> > Of course, strict adherents of Religio Romana can just be called
> > "reconstructionists " but that doesn't sound very spiritual.
> >
> > Polytheist is a good blanket term.
> >
> > As for me, I consider myself neo-pagan.
> >
> >
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61478 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Jews and Roma
Re: [Nova-Roma] Jews and Roma
A. Tullia Scholastica A. Claudio Guzzo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 

Salve!
Maior wrote:
"The Romans admired my people for our antiquity".
I've never heard of any admiration of your "people". Ancient Romans accepted that religio (the idea of Jews-people is like the idea of Christians-people or Buddha's people) because it was a very old one, but never thought Jews were to admire like Greeks, of course; maybe because of mores against children that your people still practice: Jews love to cut a part of their male sex,

    ATS:  If you are, as I suspect, referring to circumcision, this practice was hardly confined to the Jews.  If memory serves, Herodotos mentions its use among the ancient Egyptians, much to the amusement of the Greeks.  The Semitic-Hamitic peoples seem to have been fond of this surgery, which also is performed on Muslims, not all of whom are infants at the time.


like some africans do with their female sex.


    ATS:  Muslims are fond of that, too, but apparently not the more enlightened ones.

Vale!
A.C.C.
  
    Valete.



   
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/61388
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61479 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
On 2/18/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:


In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected,

Well they certainly haven't stopped in the UK. Here it's customary to be asked 'Is that Miss, Mrs or Ms?'

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61480 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve,

As long as they say it in that cute accent, I won't mind it, hehe.
Vale
- Annia Minucia Marcella

http://minucia.ciarin.com


Kirsteen Wright wrote:



On 2/18/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:


In Europe, basically they have also stopped calling women 'Miss':
Mademoiselle, Fraulein, because women objected,

Well they certainly haven't stopped in the UK. Here it's customary to be asked 'Is that Miss, Mrs or Ms?'

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61481 From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: religiones, populus et Roma
Salve!
My last message was about jews and Ancient Romans.
Varo wrote:
"if the romans accepted the jewish rligion it was because it was the religion of one people like egyptian gods were the Godsof egyptian people".
The Gods of Egypt and their cultus were very important for our cultura: the orphic view uses a lot them and many Romans worship those Gods by their rites.
The God of Jews and its religio was important because there were its ancient rites, they were the evidence of the dangerous nature of Christian religio (a religio against its mores maiorum). The "people" living during the ancient age in that land, now called Israel or Palestine, had never been admired by Romans, because of their way of life and maybe of fight (escaping for surviving). Now, you can see roman pontifices that admire Jews, because roman Vatican City worships their God (many Catholics think they are Jews cousins...) and those pontifices want to go and visit that bloody land.
Now, you can see the people of a God, but never forget that the God of the people is the god of the war, because populus means exercitus.
Pax Deorum et Roma!
Vale!
ACC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61482 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: a. d. XII Kalendas Martias: Parentalia; Hersilia
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus cultoribus Deorum, Quiritibus et
omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Hersilia pacem nobiscum det.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:
Parentalia

"With hail and snow Favonius or Auster blow." ~ Columella, De Re
Rustica 2.21


PARENTALIA

Roman family processions traveled out of the City on this day to the
tombs of their relatives. With them they brought gifts of wine,
water, milk, honey, oil, salt and black sacrificial victims. They
decorated the tombs with flowers, preferably violets and roses, and
in the evening lit candles at the tombs before leaving.


The deification of Hersilia

"His wife, Hersilia, was mourning him as lost, when royal Juno
ordered Iris to descend to her, by her rainbow path, and carry these
commands, to the widowed queen: 'O lady, glory of the Latin and
Sabine peoples, worthy before all to have been the wife of so great a
hero, and now of Quirinus, dry your tears, and if it is your desire
to see your husband, follow me and seek the grove, that flourishes on
the Quirinal hill and shades the temple of Rome's king.'

"Iris obeyed, and gliding to earth along her many-coloured arch
addressed Hersilia as she had been ordered. She, hardly raising her
eyes, replied, modestly: 'O goddess (since it is not easy for me to
say who you are, but it is clear you are a goddess), lead on: O, lead
on, and show me my husband's face. If only the fates allow me to see
him once, I shall declare I have been received in heaven.'

"Without delay, she climbed to Romulus's hill, with Iris, the
virgin daughter of Thaumas. There a star fell, gliding from sky to
earth, and Hersilia, hair set alight by its fire, vanishes with the
star in the air. The founder of the Roman city receives her in his
familiar embrace, and alters her former body and her name, and calls
her Hora, who, a Goddess now, is one with her Quirinus." ~ Ovidius,
Metamorphoses 14.829-851, A. S. Kline prose translation

"Why did the men of old keep the Temple of Horta continually open? Is
it, as Antistius Labeo has stated, that since 'to urge on' is
expressed by hortari, Horta is the Goddess who urges us on, as it
were, and incites us to noble actions; and thus they thought that
since She was ever active, She should never be procrastinating nor
shut off by Herself nor unemployed? Or rather do they call Her, as
at present, Hora, with the first syllable lengthened, an attentive
and very considerate Goddess, who, since She was protective and
thoughtful, they felt was never indifferent nor neglectful of human
affairs? Or is this too, like many other Latin words, a Greek word,
and does it signify the supervising and guardian Goddess? Hence Her
Temple was continually open since She neither slumbers nor sleeps.
If, however, Labeo is right in pointing out that Hora is derived from
paraorman (to urge on), consider whether we must not declare that
orator is thus to be derived since an orator is a counsellar or
popular leader who simulates, as it were, and incites; and it is not
to be derived from 'imprecating' or 'praying' (orare) as some
assert." ~ Plutarch, Roman Questions 46


Ancient Weather Forecastors

"I cannot restrain myself from publishing all of the silly theories
of our Stoic friends. They assert that there are some experts in
observing clouds and in predicting when hail will come. They are
able to know this just from experience, since they have noted in the
clouds a color for which is in every case followed by hail.

"It is incredible – illud incredibile – that at Cleonae there
were 'hail officers' appointed at public expense who watched for hail
to come. When they gave a signal that hail was approaching, what do
you think happened! Quid expectas? Did people run for woolly
overcoats or leather rain-wear? No. Everybody offered sacrifices
according to his means, a lamb or a chicken. When those clouds had
tasted some blood they immediately moved off in another direction.

"Do you laugh at this? Hoc rides? Here is something to make you laugh
even more. If someone did not have a lamb or a chicken, he laid hands
on himself, which could be done without great expense. But do not
think the clouds greedy for blood or cruel. He merely pricked his
finger with a well sharpened stylus and made a favorable offering
with his blood, and the hail turned away from his little field no
less than it did from the property of a man who had appeased it with
sacrifice of larger victims." ~ L. Annaeus Seneca minor, Naturales
Quaestiones 4B.6


Our thought for today is from the Sententiae of Publilius Syrus. The
Sententiae was a popular collection of quips from his plays:

"Straining breaks the bow, and relaxation relieves the mind."

Arcum intensio frangit, animum remissio.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61483 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: AW: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve Laenas,
 
I must say that I am shocked that a Censor of Nova Roma is using such a language . Is that the way Nova Roma is developing ?
 
You should especially apologize to

Annia Minucia Marcella
 
Vale bene
Titus Flavius Aquila


Von: gaiuspopilliuslaenas <gaiuspopillius@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 18. Februar 2009, 00:31:02 Uhr
Betreff: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete

I should apologize to the cives on this list for using language that is
outside of our guidelines.

I let myself get a little more provoked than usual.

Laenas


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61484 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve,
 
That is what I think. But others disagree. The Iranological evidence seems to be ignored in two recent studies. David Ulansey, in his The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, argues the religion is the invention of the Stoics and is tied up with the discovery of precession. Manfred Clauss, in his The Roman Cult of Mithras, argues that the cult was invented in Rome around 90 CE.
 
I have read Ulansey. I have not had the chance to read Clauss. His book is sitting over on a shelf to be read along with another new study on the Mithraic Mysteries by Roger Beck.
 
There are two problems with Ulansey's hypothesis. One, it ignores the Armenian Zoroastrian evidence. Two, his claim that it was a new religion based on the new discovery of precession by Hipparchus is flawed in two ways. First, Hipparchus (like the Greek contributions to mathematics in general) came up with a formula to calculate precession. That presupposes observational data collected long enough to know it is a cyclical process instead of a one time event. Second, Hipparchus actually mentions the fact he is building on the work of others.
 
Perhaps I do a couple of book reviews on Clauss and Beck when I read their books.
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

From: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 AM

Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.

Salve.

Isn't Mithraism originally from Persia as well?

"Thus also the Persians, mystically signifying the descent of the soul into the sublunary
regions, and its regression from it, initiate the mystic (or him who is admitted to the
arcane sacred rites) in a place which they denominate a cavern. For, as Eubulus says,
Zoroaster was the first who consecrated in the neighbouring mountains of Persia, a
spontaneously produced cave, florid, and having fountains, in honour of Mithra, the maker
and father of all things; a cave, according to Zoroaster, bearing a resemblance of the
world, which was fabricated by Mithra. But the things contained in the cavern being
arranged according to commensurate intervals, were symbols of the mundane elements
and climates." (Porphyry, On the Cave of the Nymphs 2.11-12)

I thought that the evidentiary problem was connecting Roman-era Mithraism with more
ancient Mithraism.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius. regulus@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with more contemporary
scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention. There are a number
of studies classicists ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the cult
of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -- where did the cult come
from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest
Armenian churches are built right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to them.
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61485 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
 c'è preferabile che tu scrivi in italiano perche non ho capito cioi che tu hai detto in inglese
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] religiones, populus et Roma

Salve!
My last message was about jews and Ancient Romans.
Varo wrote:
"if the romans accepted the jewish rligion it was because it was the religion of one people like egyptian gods were the Godsof egyptian people".
The Gods of Egypt and their cultus were very important for our cultura: the orphic view uses a lot them and many Romans worship those Gods by their rites.
The God of Jews and its religio was important because there were its ancient rites, they were the evidence of the dangerous nature of Christian religio (a religio against its mores maiorum). The "people" living during the ancient age in that land, now called Israel or Palestine, had never been admired by Romans, because of their way of life and maybe of fight (escaping for surviving). Now, you can see roman pontifices that admire Jews, because roman Vatican City worships their God (many Catholics think they are Jews cousins...) and those pontifices want to go and visit that bloody land.
Now, you can see the people of a God, but never forget that the God of the people is the god of the war, because populus means exercitus.
Pax Deorum et Roma!
Vale!
ACC


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61486 From: M. Cocceius Firmus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve Regulus

Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:11:28 PM, you wrote:

ASR> That is what I think. But others disagree. The Iranological
ASR> evidence seems to be ignored in two recent studies.

I saw this comment at the start of a review on BMCR:

Ever since Cumont's volumes first appeared in the 1890s, his ideas
on Mithraism have been influential, particularly with regard to the
quest for Mithraic doctrine. His emphasis on the Iranian features of
the cult is now less influential with the Iranising influences
generally played down in scholarship over the last thirty years.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2006/2006-12-08.html

So it seems to be not so much ignored as deliberately downplayed.

Incidentally that review is of

Roger Beck, The Religion of the Mithras Cult in the Roman Empire:
Mysteries of the Unconquered Sun. Oxford: Oxford University Press,
2006

and there are also reviews of

Jaime Alvar, Romanising Oriental Gods. Myth, Salvation and Ethics in
the Cults of Cybele, Isis and Mithras. Translated and edited by
Richard Gordon. Religions in the Graeco-Roman World 165. Leiden:
Brill, 2008
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2009/2009-01-39.html

and

Hans Dieter Betz, The "Mithras Liturgy". Text, translation and
commentary. Studien und Texte zu Antike und Christentum, 18. Tübingen:
Mohr Siebeck, 2003
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2006/2006-07-41.html

which may be of interest.


--
Best regards,
M. Cocceius Firmus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61487 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Ca
Salve,
 
Yes, I think deliberately down-played is a correct description. Over the last 30 years
as academia has faced tighter budgets, I have seen an increasing trend of specialists
retreating into their field, defending their turf, and fearing to step out of their specialization
in case they step on others toes/turf. So, for the topic at hand, I see classics specialists
barely talking of conferring with iranologists. Central Asia is the biggest example. The Turfan oasis finds include Zoroastrian, Manichaean, Sufi, Buddhist, Indian, Chinese,
Christian texts and finds -- whole libraries. Has anyone covered the topic as a whole? No. The Buddhists will discuss Kushan and Khotanese Buddhist texts. Gnostic scholars will discuss the Manichaean finds, and so on -- with the narrow spectacles of their respective specialization. They hesitate to look at the whole picture. I know of two texts that are
considered a "crisis" because they cross disciplinary boundaries. One is a Buddhist text in Aramaic being converted into a Manichaean text. The other is a Manichaean text being converted into a Taoist text as it is also translated into Chinese. They are under discussed
and under researched because they "violate" and "transgress" areas of specialization.
So, yes, deliberate down-play.
 
Vale,
A. Sempronius Regulus

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, M. Cocceius Firmus <nantonos@...> wrote:

From: M. Cocceius Firmus <nantonos@...>
Subject: Re: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:38 PM

Salve Regulus

Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:11:28 PM, you wrote:

ASR> That is what I think. But others disagree. The Iranological
ASR> evidence seems to be ignored in two recent studies.

I saw this comment at the start of a review on BMCR:

Ever since Cumont's volumes first appeared in the 1890s, his ideas
on Mithraism have been influential, particularly with regard to the
quest for Mithraic doctrine. His emphasis on the Iranian features of
the cult is now less influential with the Iranising influences
generally played down in scholarship over the last thirty years.
http://ccat. sas.upenn. edu/bmcr/ 2006/2006- 12-08.html

So it seems to be not so much ignored as deliberately downplayed.

Incidentally that review is of

Roger Beck, The Religion of the Mithras Cult in the Roman Empire:
Mysteries of the Unconquered Sun. Oxford: Oxford University Press,
2006

and there are also reviews of

Jaime Alvar, Romanising Oriental Gods. Myth, Salvation and Ethics in
the Cults of Cybele, Isis and Mithras. Translated and edited by
Richard Gordon. Religions in the Graeco-Roman World 165. Leiden:
Brill, 2008
http://ccat. sas.upenn. edu/bmcr/ 2009/2009- 01-39.html

and

Hans Dieter Betz, The "Mithras Liturgy". Text, translation and
commentary. Studien und Texte zu Antike und Christentum, 18. Tübingen:
Mohr Siebeck, 2003
http://ccat. sas.upenn. edu/bmcr/ 2006/2006- 07-41.html

which may be of interest.

--
Best regards,
M. Cocceius Firmus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61488 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's
Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.

Salve.

From what I have read it seems as if the "Father of Mithraic Studies", Franz Cumont, was
the first to posit the idea of continuity from Persia (Parthia) to Rome, but that there are
several flaws; chief among them that there are no mithraeums extant in Greater Iran
(stretching from Pakistan all the way over to, but only including a part of, Armenia).
Armenia having been subject to the Persian cultural influence was still a distinct ethnic
and sociological group. Mary Boyce writes that

"no satisfactory evidence has yet been adduced to show that, before Zoroaster, the
concept of a supreme god existed among the Iranians, or that among them Mithra - or
any other divinity - ever enjoyed a separate cult of his or her own outside either their
ancient or their Zoroastrian pantheons." (Mithra the King and Varuna the Master, p. 243)

Further, Luther Martin writes that

"Apart from the name of the god himself, in other words, Mithraism seems to have
developed largely in and is, therefore, best understood from the context of Roman
culture." (Beck on Mithraism: Collected Works With New Essays, "Foreward", p. xiv)

The earliest evidence of Roman participation in the "mysteries of the Persians" comes, not
surprisingly, with some Roman military; the Legio XV Apollinaris had been sent from
Carnuntum in Pannonia, on the Austro-Hungarian border, to Parthia in AD 62, then
Alexandria, and then got involved in the Jewish Wars - commanded by Titus himself and
actually capturing Iosephus (!). They then settled back in their permanent camp in
Carnuntum, and apparently made Mithraic "dedications" around AD 70. Presumably they
would have learned these dedicatory rites while they were in Parthia, but I'm having no
luck yet in finding a definitive description of the activities.

Publius Papinius Statius' "Thebaid" (c. AD 80) is the first Roman document to give any kind
of framework to Roman Mithraism, in describing the basic setting of the tauroctomy and
identifying Mithras with Apollo, a solar deity:

""Phoebus, Sire! whether the copses of Patara and Lycia's snowy uplands keep thee busy,
or thou delightest to bathe thy golden hair in Castalia's pure drew, or whether as
Thymbra's lord thou dwellest in Troy, where they say thou didst willingly bear on
thankless shoulders blocks of Phrygian stone,... whether `tis right to call thee rosy Titan,
in the fashion of the Achaemenian race, or Osiris bringer of the harvest, or Mithras, that
beneath the rocky Persean cave strains at the reluctant-following horns." (Thebaid, 1.56,
63)

LOL this is like a scavenger hunt!

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
<asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>  
> That is what I think. But others disagree. The Iranological evidence seems to be ignored
in two recent studies. David Ulansey, in his The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, argues
the religion is the invention of the Stoics and is tied up with the discovery of precession.
Manfred Clauss, in his The Roman Cult of Mithras, argues that the cult was invented in
Rome around 90 CE.
>  
> I have read Ulansey. I have not had the chance to read Clauss. His book is sitting over on
a shelf to be read along with another new study on the Mithraic Mysteries by Roger Beck.
>  
> There are two problems with Ulansey's hypothesis. One, it ignores the Armenian
Zoroastrian evidence. Two, his claim that it was a new religion based on the new discovery
of precession by Hipparchus is flawed in two ways. First, Hipparchus (like the Greek
contributions to mathematics in general) came up with a formula to calculate precession.
That presupposes observational data collected long enough to know it is a cyclical process
instead of a one time event. Second, Hipparchus actually mentions the fact he is building
on the work of others.
>  
> Perhaps I do a couple of book reviews on Clauss and Beck when I read their books.
>  
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
> Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Isn't Mithraism originally from Persia as well?
>
> "Thus also the Persians, mystically signifying the descent of the soul into the sublunary
> regions, and its regression from it, initiate the mystic (or him who is admitted to the
> arcane sacred rites) in a place which they denominate a cavern. For, as Eubulus says,
> Zoroaster was the first who consecrated in the neighbouring mountains of Persia, a
> spontaneously produced cave, florid, and having fountains, in honour of Mithra, the
maker
> and father of all things; a cave, according to Zoroaster, bearing a resemblance of the
> world, which was fabricated by Mithra. But the things contained in the cavern being
> arranged according to commensurate intervals, were symbols of the mundane elements
> and climates." (Porphyry, On the Cave of the Nymphs 2.11-12)
>
> I thought that the evidentiary problem was connecting Roman-era Mithraism with more
> ancient Mithraism.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with more contemporary
> scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention. There are a
number
> of studies classicists ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
cult
> of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -- where did the cult
come
> from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest
> Armenian churches are built right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to
them.
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Cato Varoni sal.

Salve!

Here's a translation into French:

Mon dernier message est à propos des Juifs et des Romains.
Varo a écrit:
"si les Romains accepté la religion juive, c'est parce qu'elle était la religion d'un peuple
comme les dieux égyptiens ont été les dieux du peuple égyptien".
Les dieux de l'Égypte et de leur culte était très important pour notre culture: l'orphique
vue utilise beaucoup et beaucoup de ces Dieux Romains, le culte de leurs rites.
Le Dieu des Juifs et de ses religieux était important, car il y avait ses rites anciens, ils
étaient la preuve de la nature dangereuse de la religion chrétienne (une religieuse contre
ses mœurs Maiorum). Le "peuple" la vie au cours de l'ancienne ère dans ce pays,
maintenant appelé Israel ou Palestine, n'a jamais été admiré par les Romains, en raison de
leur mode de vie et peut-être de la lutte (pour échapper à survivre). Maintenant, vous
pouvez voir que les romains Pontifices admirer Juifs, parce que la Cité du Vatican roman
culte de leur Dieu (beaucoup de catholiques pensent qu'ils sont les cousins des juifs ...) et
ceux pontifices veulent aller visite cette terre sanglante.
Maintenant, vous pouvez voir les gens de Dieu, mais ne jamais oublier que le Dieu du
peuple est le dieu de la guerre, parce que populus = exercitus."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "philippe cardon" <philippe.cardon01@...> wrote:
>
> c'è preferabile che tu scrivi in italiano perche non ho capito cioi che tu hai detto in
inglese
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:16 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] religiones, populus et Roma
>
>
>
> Salve!
> My last message was about jews and Ancient Romans.
> Varo wrote:
> "if the romans accepted the jewish rligion it was because it was the religion of one
people like egyptian gods were the Godsof egyptian people".
> The Gods of Egypt and their cultus were very important for our cultura: the orphic view
uses a lot them and many Romans worship those Gods by their rites.
> The God of Jews and its religio was important because there were its ancient rites, they
were the evidence of the dangerous nature of Christian religio (a religio against its mores
maiorum). The "people" living during the ancient age in that land, now called Israel or
Palestine, had never been admired by Romans, because of their way of life and maybe of
fight (escaping for surviving). Now, you can see roman pontifices that admire Jews,
because roman Vatican City worships their God (many Catholics think they are Jews
cousins...) and those pontifices want to go and visit that bloody land.
> Now, you can see the people of a God, but never forget that the God of the people is
the god of the war, because populus means exercitus.
> Pax Deorum et Roma!
> Vale!
> ACC
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.
> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61490 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Here's a translation into French:
>

Salve, Cato.

He asked for Italian, though. And again, if you're going to use
automated translation services, use them to translate to your own
language or one you know. Language translation is still a research topic
and nowhere near a finished product - you will need to double-check any
machine output manually.

Linking non-native english speakers to Google translate (or similar) is
probably the best bet.

Varo, try using this with messages you don't understand:

http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=it&sl=en&tl=it

If it doesn't work, ask our interpreters.

Vale, Titus Octavius Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61491 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
as i thought that  has no sense
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma

Cato Varoni sal.

Salve!

Here's a translation into French:

Mon dernier message est à propos des Juifs et des Romains.
Varo a écrit:
"si les Romains accepté la religion juive, c'est parce qu'elle était la religion d'un peuple
comme les dieux égyptiens ont été les dieux du peuple égyptien".
Les dieux de l'Égypte et de leur culte était très important pour notre culture: l'orphique
vue utilise beaucoup et beaucoup de ces Dieux Romains, le culte de leurs rites.
Le Dieu des Juifs et de ses religieux était important, car il y avait ses rites anciens, ils
étaient la preuve de la nature dangereuse de la religion chrétienne (une religieuse contre
ses mœurs Maiorum). Le "peuple" la vie au cours de l'ancienne ère dans ce pays,
maintenant appelé Israel ou Palestine, n'a jamais été admiré par les Romains, en raison de
leur mode de vie et peut-être de la lutte (pour échapper à survivre). Maintenant, vous
pouvez voir que les romains Pontifices admirer Juifs, parce que la Cité du Vatican roman
culte de leur Dieu (beaucoup de catholiques pensent qu'ils sont les cousins des juifs ...) et
ceux pontifices veulent aller visite cette terre sanglante.
Maintenant, vous pouvez voir les gens de Dieu, mais ne jamais oublier que le Dieu du
peuple est le dieu de la guerre, parce que populus = exercitus."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "philippe cardon" <philippe.cardon01@ ...> wrote:
>
> c'è preferabile che tu scrivi in italiano perche non ho capito cioi che tu hai detto in
inglese
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Avv. Claudio Guzzo
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:16 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] religiones, populus et Roma
>
>
>
> Salve!
> My last message was about jews and Ancient Romans.
> Varo wrote:
> "if the romans accepted the jewish rligion it was because it was the religion of one
people like egyptian gods were the Godsof egyptian people".
> The Gods of Egypt and their cultus were very important for our cultura: the orphic view
uses a lot them and many Romans worship those Gods by their rites.
> The God of Jews and its religio was important because there were its ancient rites, they
were the evidence of the dangerous nature of Christian religio (a religio against its mores
maiorum). The "people" living during the ancient age in that land, now called Israel or
Palestine, had never been admired by Romans, because of their way of life and maybe of
fight (escaping for surviving). Now, you can see roman pontifices that admire Jews,
because roman Vatican City worships their God (many Catholics think they are Jews
cousins...) and those pontifices want to go and visit that bloody land.
> Now, you can see the people of a God, but never forget that the God of the people is
the god of the war, because populus means exercitus.
> Pax Deorum et Roma!
> Vale!
> ACC
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
------------ --------
> Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.
> Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
>


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.
Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61492 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma
Lentulus T. Octavio Pio sal.

I checked the Google translation service you mentioned with your text you wrote in your previous message, this:

"He asked for Italian, though. And again, if you're going to use
automated translation services, use them to translate to your own
language or one you know. Language translation is still a research topic
and nowhere near a finished product - you will need to double-check any
machine output manually."

I translated it with Google translator first into Italian, then to Hungarian, and finally again into English. This is the result here:


"He asked the Italian government. And again, if you plan to use Translation services, translation of the the language or know. Language translation is the topic of research
and at the end of nowhere - if you have to check that all hand-held device output."


It's LOL !!!

Vale!
Lentulus



Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61493 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Laenas Maior

>>Telling women to 'shut up' or 'piss off' or other fatuous insults on
the Main List is the dying cry of white male privilege. I always have
a good laugh over it;-)<<


Hahahahahahahah!!! Too funny! Trust me it has nothing to do with sex
or race.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61494 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
Salve et salvete,

>>I must say that I am shocked that a Censor of Nova Roma is using such
a language . Is that the way Nova Roma is developing ?<<

Actually it has been that way since the beginning, and often very much
harsher. It is unavoidable since we are all human, and I believe it is
quite Roman. However, I do apologize for abusing the list guidelines.

>>You should especially apologize to Annia Minucia Marcella<<

Tite Flavi, in my opinion I was deliberately provoked. As I said in my
post it is not my habit to allow such provocation to "get to me". In
this case I am also sorry that it did.

Vale et valete,

C. Popillius Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61495 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's

Salvete,

 

RE: Regulus:

>There are two problems with Ulansey's hypothesis. One, it ignores the Armenian Zoroastrian >evidence. Two, his claim that it was a new religion based on the new discovery of precession by >Hipparchus is flawed in two ways. First, Hipparchus (like the Greek contributions to mathematics >in general) came up with a formula to calculate precession. That presupposes observational >\data >collected long enough to know it is a cyclical process instead of a one time event. Second, >Hipparchus actually mentions the fact he is building on the work of others.

 

And this is why must be well read; studiously. It is also why I cringe when I hear someone putting total faith in one book, scholarly or not. It is so important to also check the sources cited and then read about that source thoroughly. This is what "study is all about. I alluded to some of the "histories" of the 18th and 19th century often being inaccurate by today's standards, much due to translation problems, opinions and viewpoints aka conventionalized expressions of the experience of the author, not necessarily the age of the Ancient Romans, but also because of the liberties taken mainly because there were few to dispute what was written. I had a late 19th Century Medical book that I sold for big bucks and was "the" source for medical illnesses at the time but before I did I shared it with some of my medical colleagues, after about five minutes we were laughing so hard we had to put the book down. Imagine telling your daughter that if it is her time of the month and she has a cotillion to attend, to go and walk bare foot in the snow for several minutes to halt that particular "visit." But this is what that good doctor prescribed. The attitude towards women appeared to stop all progress at the time.

So the old adage applies: "don't believe everything you read." And you know the old saw about opinionsÂ… :)

 

>David Ulansey, in his The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, argues the religion is the invention of >the Stoics and is tied up with the discovery of precession. Manfred Clauss, in his The Roman Cult >of Mithras, argues that the cult was invented in Rome around 90 CE.

 

I know many who disagree with both Ulansey, esp. regarding Stoicism.

Research is not always objective and facts can be manipulated to meet the others own beliefs. And so, I repeat, one must check the sources themselves if they have a true serious interest. It appears that some writers, and I am venturing a guess here but I believe that Beck (which admittedly I read way too quickly about two years ago) takes a hermeneutic approach, which in itself is controversial and is often found in subjects open to endless debate such as Â…metaphysics.

I have no problem with Mitras, Mithras, being an indigenous Roman deity as long as the evidence is sound. But there is much more work to be done yet before I am convinced. A theme I noticed is that in part this is based on Sol and there is debate as to whether the two are interchangeable. Well Mitras/Mithras is a sun deity, however, and Sol Invictus was a very important part in the later Empire. This is a soldiers cult, by that I mean it wasÂ…synchretic. Btw, synchretic is not a bad word.*laughs* Mitras/Mithras Cult was that of my father  but I recognize the stories of the gods I learned at home may not be historically accurate, as did my familia, and we were taught to be seekers of veritas.

Anyhow, just ask a Hindu Brahma or Scholar from India and they just might tell you that it was they who gave the monotheistic "god" concept to the Yahwists traditions, and some will even go so far to say they influenced the Aton. Some Hindus also claim that Zoroastrianism is also a result of Hinduism, the oldest religious philosophy in the world; surely they can be traced back to the pre-historic Indo-Iranian (Persian) period. I say much of this in jest but having spent a great amount of time, and formal academic study, in India, they too, have some compelling arguments. On the surface. But it is long intricate deeply woven nest of material that requires teams of specialists from several different disciplines to unravel. A shame because there is much to be learned and brought to light.

As Regulus said in another post:

> Ihave seen an increasing trend of specialistsretreating into their field, defending their turf, and >fearing to step out of their specialization in case they step on others toes/turf. So, for the topic at >hand, I see classics specialistsbarely talking of conferring with iranologists. Central Asia is the >biggest example. The Turfan oasis finds include Zoroastrian, Manichaean, Sufi, Buddhist, >Indian, Chinese,Christian texts and finds -- whole libraries. Has anyone covered the topic as a >whole? No. The Buddhists will discuss Kushan and Khotanese Buddhist texts. Gnostic scholars >will discuss the Manichaean finds, and so on -- with the narrow spectacles of their respective >specialization. They hesitate to look at the whole picture.

 

 

Turcan, "The Cults of the Roman Empire" who also is disputed by those believing that Mitras is indigenous to the Roman cult, states in chapter 4:  "The story of Mithras is remarkable and paradoxical."

 

Cumont, (whom I am quoting from Turcan because it is readily assessable), Turcan paraphrased "Cumont would say that our knowledge of Mithraism is as problemic and full of lucanae as our knowledge of Christianity would be if all we had at our disposal was nothing but the  Old Testament and the carved iconography of the cathedrals."

 

Cato:

> LOL this is like a scavenger hunt!

 

Isn't it fun! *laughs*

 

Have a great day, Cato and Regulus; it has certainly been a pleasure. Peace I leave with youÂ…. *impish grin* sorry, I could not resist but it is beautiful;)

 

Valete,

 

Julia Aquila

 


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> From what I have read it seems as if the "Father of Mithraic Studies", Franz Cumont, was
> the first to posit the idea of continuity from Persia (Parthia) to Rome, but that there are
> several flaws; chief among them that there are no mithraeums extant in Greater Iran
> (stretching from Pakistan all the way over to, but only including a part of, Armenia).
> Armenia having been subject to the Persian cultural influence was still a distinct ethnic
> and sociological group. Mary Boyce writes that
>
> "no satisfactory evidence has yet been adduced to show that, before Zoroaster, the
> concept of a supreme god existed among the Iranians, or that among them Mithra - or
> any other divinity - ever enjoyed a separate cult of his or her own outside either their
> ancient or their Zoroastrian pantheons." (Mithra the King and Varuna the Master, p. 243)
>
> Further, Luther Martin writes that
>
> "Apart from the name of the god himself, in other words, Mithraism seems to have
> developed largely in and is, therefore, best understood from the context of Roman
> culture." (Beck on Mithraism: Collected Works With New Essays, "Foreward", p. xiv)
>
> The earliest evidence of Roman participation in the "mysteries of the Persians" comes, not
> surprisingly, with some Roman military; the Legio XV Apollinaris had been sent from
> Carnuntum in Pannonia, on the Austro-Hungarian border, to Parthia in AD 62, then
> Alexandria, and then got involved in the Jewish Wars - commanded by Titus himself and
> actually capturing Iosephus (!). They then settled back in their permanent camp in
> Carnuntum, and apparently made Mithraic "dedications" around AD 70. Presumably they
> would have learned these dedicatory rites while they were in Parthia, but I'm having no
> luck yet in finding a definitive description of the activities.
>
> Publius Papinius Statius' "Thebaid" (c. AD 80) is the first Roman document to give any kind
> of framework to Roman Mithraism, in describing the basic setting of the tauroctomy and
> identifying Mithras with Apollo, a solar deity:
>
> ""Phoebus, Sire! whether the copses of Patara and Lycia's snowy uplands keep thee busy,
> or thou delightest to bathe thy golden hair in Castalia's pure drew, or whether as
> Thymbra's lord thou dwellest in Troy, where they say thou didst willingly bear on
> thankless shoulders blocks of Phrygian stone,... whether `tis right to call thee rosy Titan,
> in the fashion of the Achaemenian race, or Osiris bringer of the harvest, or Mithras, that
> beneath the rocky Persean cave strains at the reluctant-following horns." (Thebaid, 1.56,
> 63)
>
> LOL this is like a scavenger hunt!
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> asempronius.regulus@ wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >  
> > That is what I think. But others disagree. The Iranological evidence seems to be ignored
> in two recent studies. David Ulansey, in his The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, argues
> the religion is the invention of the Stoics and is tied up with the discovery of precession.
> Manfred Clauss, in his The Roman Cult of Mithras, argues that the cult was invented in
> Rome around 90 CE.
> >  
> > I have read Ulansey. I have not had the chance to read Clauss. His book is sitting over on
> a shelf to be read along with another new study on the Mithraic Mysteries by Roger Beck.
> >  
> > There are two problems with Ulansey's hypothesis. One, it ignores the Armenian
> Zoroastrian evidence. Two, his claim that it was a new religion based on the new discovery
> of precession by Hipparchus is flawed in two ways. First, Hipparchus (like the Greek
> contributions to mathematics in general) came up with a formula to calculate precession.
> That presupposes observational data collected long enough to know it is a cyclical process
> instead of a one time event. Second, Hipparchus actually mentions the fact he is building
> on the work of others.
> >  
> > Perhaps I do a couple of book reviews on Clauss and Beck when I read their books.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Gaius Equitius Cato mlcinnyc@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Gaius Equitius Cato mlcinnyc@
> > Subject: Mithras Altars Re: Hagia Sophia Re: Sodalitas Re: [Nova-Roma] Cato's "Return"
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Sempronio Regulo sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > Isn't Mithraism originally from Persia as well?
> >
> > "Thus also the Persians, mystically signifying the descent of the soul into the sublunary
> > regions, and its regression from it, initiate the mystic (or him who is admitted to the
> > arcane sacred rites) in a place which they denominate a cavern. For, as Eubulus says,
> > Zoroaster was the first who consecrated in the neighbouring mountains of Persia, a
> > spontaneously produced cave, florid, and having fountains, in honour of Mithra, the
> maker
> > and father of all things; a cave, according to Zoroaster, bearing a resemblance of the
> > world, which was fabricated by Mithra. But the things contained in the cavern being
> > arranged according to commensurate intervals, were symbols of the mundane elements
> > and climates." (Porphyry, On the Cave of the Nymphs 2.11-12)
> >
> > I thought that the evidentiary problem was connecting Roman-era Mithraism with more
> > ancient Mithraism.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"
> > <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > To see Mithras caves and altars, visit Armenia. I do not agree with more contemporary
> > scholars that the Mithraic Mysteries were only a Hellenistic invention. There are a
> number
> > of studies classicists ignore (discipline turf war) by Iranologists documenting that the
> cult
> > of Mithras/Mithra has Zoroastrian roots, especially in, Armenia -- where did the cult
> come
> > from by ancient report?, Armenia. There are all sorts of Mithra sites. And the oldest
> > Armenian churches are built right over a Mithra cave-temple. You can walk down to
> them.
> > > Vale,
> > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61497 From: Gaius Aurelius Vindex Date: 2009-02-18
Subject: Incontro
Attachments :
    Avete Omnes,
    come accennato in precedenza, domani mattina 19 feb. ore 10, visiteremo
    con il legato Moldavo :-)) Marcus Prometheus,
    i Mercati Traianei e nel pom. Villa Adriana a Tivoli.
    Tutti i NRomani (od aspiranti:-)), sono ovviamente 
    invitati ad intervenire.
    Per dettagli ed adesioni contattare il 3391184613
    Valete
    Gaius Aurelius Vindex
    aka Roberto
    P.S. nei giorni seguenti visiteremo la Toscana (Florentia e limitrofe)
    saremo lieti di incontrare tutti i NovaRomani od aspiranti
    che ci contatteranno
    Animazioni GRATUITE per le tue e-mail - da IncrediMail! Fai clic qui!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61498 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma
    --Maior Lentulo Octavio Pio spd:
    I used Babelfish from Guzzo's English to Italian, I think it worked
    rather well. It's below and here is the Babelfish link:
    http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt


    I dei dell'Egitto e del loro cultus erano molto importanti per il
    nostro cultura: la vista orphic lo usa mólto e molti Romani adorano
    quei dei dai loro riti. Il dio degli ebrei e del relativo religio era
    importante perché ci erano i relativi riti antichi, era la prova
    della natura pericolosa del religio cristiano (un religio contro il
    relativo maiorum di usanze). Il " people" vivendo durante l'età
    antica in quella terra, ora denominata l'Israele o il Palestine, non
    era stato ammirato mai da Romans, a causa del loro modo di vivere e
    forse della lotta (che fuoriesce per la sopravvivenza). Ora, potete
    vedere i pontifices romani che ammirano gli ebrei, perché Città del
    Vaticano romana adora il loro dio (molti cattolici pensano che siano
    cugini degli ebreiÂ…) e quei pontifices vogliono andare visitare
    quella terra sanguinante. Ora, potete vedere la gente di un dio, ma
    mai non dimenticate che il dio della gente è il dio della guerra,
    perché il populus significa il exercitus. Pax Deorum et Roma!
    I tried with Babelfish from his English to Italian:
    pretty good.

    > I checked the Google translation service you mentioned with your
    text you wrote in your previous message, this:
    >
    > "He asked for Italian, though. And again, if you're going to use
    >
    > automated translation services, use them to translate to your own
    >
    > language or one you know. Language translation is still a research
    topic
    >
    > and nowhere near a finished product - you will need to double-check
    any
    >
    > machine output manually."
    >
    > I translated it with Google translator first into Italian, then to
    Hungarian, and finally again into English. This is the result here:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "He asked the Italian government. And again, if you plan to use
    Translation services, translation of the the language or know.
    Language translation is the topic of research
    > and at the end of nowhere - if you have to check that all hand-
    held device output."
    >
    >
    > It's LOL !!!
    >
    > Vale!
    > Lentulus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    >
    > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
    > antispam e messenger integrato.
    > http://it.mail.yahoo.com/%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61499 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
    Salve,

    It would've been better if you had accepted it as the joke it was intended to be instead of thinking I was trying to provoke you. Stop taking yourself so seriously.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia.ciarin.com


    gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:

    Salve et salvete,

    >>I must say that I am shocked that a Censor of Nova Roma is using such
    a language . Is that the way Nova Roma is developing ?<<

    Actually it has been that way since the beginning, and often very much
    harsher. It is unavoidable since we are all human, and I believe it is
    quite Roman. However, I do apologize for abusing the list guidelines.

    >>You should especially apologize to Annia Minucia Marcella<<

    Tite Flavi, in my opinion I was deliberately provoked. As I said in my
    post it is not my habit to allow such provocation to "get to me". In
    this case I am also sorry that it did.

    Vale et valete,

    C. Popillius Laenas

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61500 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
    English, français, italiano
    le parole del nostro amico hanno nessune intelligibile significazzione ma non e la prima volta che  parla senza raggione
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Maior
    Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:19 PM
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma

    --Maior Lentulo Octavio Pio spd:
    I used Babelfish from Guzzo's English to Italian, I think it worked
    rather well. It's below and here is the Babelfish link:
    http://babelfish. yahoo.com/ translate_ txt

    I dei dell'Egitto e del loro cultus erano molto importanti per il
    nostro cultura: la vista orphic lo usa mólto e molti Romani adorano
    quei dei dai loro riti. Il dio degli ebrei e del relativo religio era
    importante perché ci erano i relativi riti antichi, era la prova
    della natura pericolosa del religio cristiano (un religio contro il
    relativo maiorum di usanze). Il " people" vivendo durante l'età
    antica in quella terra, ora denominata l'Israele o il Palestine, non
    era stato ammirato mai da Romans, a causa del loro modo di vivere e
    forse della lotta (che fuoriesce per la sopravvivenza) . Ora, potete
    vedere i pontifices romani che ammirano gli ebrei, perché Città del
    Vaticano romana adora il loro dio (molti cattolici pensano che siano
    cugini degli ebreiÂ…) e quei pontifices vogliono andare visitare
    quella terra sanguinante. Ora, potete vedere la gente di un dio, ma
    mai non dimenticate che il dio della gente è il dio della guerra,
    perché il populus significa il exercitus. Pax Deorum et Roma!
    I tried with Babelfish from his English to Italian:
    pretty good.

    > I checked the Google translation service you mentioned with your
    text you wrote in your previous message, this:
    >
    > "He asked for Italian, though. And again, if you're going to use
    >
    > automated translation services, use them to translate to your own
    >
    > language or one you know. Language translation is still a research
    topic
    >
    > and nowhere near a finished product - you will need to double-check
    any
    >
    > machine output manually."
    >
    > I translated it with Google translator first into Italian, then to
    Hungarian, and finally again into English. This is the result here:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "He asked the Italian government. And again, if you plan to use
    Translation services, translation of the the language or know.
    Language translation is the topic of research
    > and at the end of nowhere - if you have to check that all hand-
    held device output."
    >
    >
    > It's LOL !!!
    >
    > Vale!
    > Lentulus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    >
    > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
    > antispam e messenger integrato.
    > http://it.mail. yahoo.com/ Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ 
    >


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61501 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Aurelianus Marcella et Rich sal.

    The SCA was originally made up of fantasy, history, and speculative thought back in the 60s.  However, it has evolved to the point that many of the leading medieval and Renaissance scholars of the day started with the SCA.  I would hardly call it exclusively a role-playing organization anymore than I would call Nova Roma a role-playing organization.  The principal difference that I see between the SCA and NR is that the SCA was founded before the Internet and had to become an organization in which travelling to participate was a requirement.  NR is a mostly internet organization in which the majority of those who travel to participate started in groups like the SCA (like me and many members of my province) or military re-enactment units (like Legio V).  Most of the membership of Nova Roma could use a little more of the enthusiasm and social interaction of the SCA.

    Rich - I am sorry that you live so far away from America Austrorientalis.  Our province has had two major and a number of local events plus we participated in a major museum-reenactment event in Mobile in 2006.  Perhaps you could get involved with Nova Roma and help some of our members learn a little more about the joys of social interaction.

    Valete.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:44 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Curious non-member with some questions.

    Salve,

    Except you referenced the SCA(a lot) which is most definitely a role-playing organization.


    I'll thank you not to compare us to renfaire characters like Lord Seamus of the Kingdom of Caid.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Rich wrote:
    On Sun, 2009-02-08 at 05:04 +0000, t.ovidius_aquila wrote:

    You're the second person to assign the words "role-play" or "RPG" to
    me, when I never used them.

    I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. :-)

    Best,
    Rich...


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61502 From: gaiuspopilliuslaenas Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
    Laenas Marcella sal.

    >>Stop taking yourself so seriously.<<

    Still giving orders/advice?
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61503 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Aurelianus Rich sal.

    There is another thing that Nova Roma has in common with the SCA; we do love our drama.  There are a number of my fellow citizens who strongly object to any comparison between the SCA and NR.  I do not really understand it as the SCA is definitely a more successful organization in terms of retention of members, activities, and such but NR has managed to last ten years which says something about our organization.  Don't be put off by the little bits of drama you find on the NR ML.  There are many outstanding individuals and groups within NR . . . and many of those regularly associate with the SCA, the Legions, the Hellenes, and other diverse groups.

    Vale.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rich <wielgosz@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 8:46 am
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Curious non-member with some questions.

    On Sun, 2009-02-08 at 01:34 -0500, Annia Minucia Marcella wrote:

    There was no direct comparison, other than to show that you were two
    groups that have people with a common interest, so please stop putting
    words in my mouth.

    In my "OP" I only asked if you had branches or local chapters like the
    SCA. So perhaps it is you who needs to look at that message.

    I have not even heard of the other groups you mentioned.

    I must confess that I am completely baffled. In my attempts to learn
    more about NR, I have gotten two posts from people whose apparent only
    intent was to create drama where there was none. Except for perhaps in
    their own imaginings.

    Best,
    Rich...

    > Salve,
    >
    > Then perhaps you should reread your OP. Is there a reason you wanted
    > to use the SCA to compare this organization rather than organizations
    > like the ODOB, or The Troth, or other reconstructionist groups? If we
    > were a reenactor org, your comparison would fit, we're not so it
    > doesn't. Furthermore many of us dislike attempts at claiming this is
    > all just pretend, and your SCA comparison implies exactly that(hence
    > the replies that clearly state we are not an rpg).
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Vale
    > - Annia Minucia Marcella
    >
    >
    http://minucia. ciarin.com
    >
    >
    > Rich wrote:
    > > On Sun, 2009-02-08 at 00:44 -0500, Annia Minucia Marcella wrote:
    > >
    > > > Salve,
    > > >
    > > > Except you referenced the SCA(a lot) which is most definitely a
    > > > role-playing organization.
    > >
    > > Perhaps.
    > >
    > > > I'll thank you not to compare us to renfaire characters like Lord
    > > > Seamus of the Kingdom of Caid.
    > >
    > > I don't recall comparing you to any characters at all.
    > >
    > > Best,
    > > Rich...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61504 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Beautiful poem, Petroni!

    Thank you very much, Livia Plauta.

    If I translate it in English I wonder if it will be as beautiful as
    in Latin...

    Suddenly tower up your temples, Quirine,
    Which break through the dust of the old ages
    And renew life they long ago had in Roma.
    Thus they did because I have to oint the weapons of Quirinus
    That's divine law during these holydays to oint them with greasy
    pitch.
    I, flamen Portunalis, sacrificed with the proper rites
    And said the formules by which in the pax deorum
    Nova Roma lives et Quirites flourish with ancient virtues.

    That does not sing as well as in Latin.

    Et surrexerunt subito tua templa, Quirine,
    Priscorum aeuorum quae se ex puluere rumpunt
    Et uitam renouant quam Romae quondam habuerunt.
    Sic faciunt, quia mi sunt unguenda arma Quirini
    Quae diebus pingui pice festis unguere fas est.
    Iam Portunalis flamen feci sacra rite,
    Dixi certaque uerba ut uiuat in pace deorum
    Roma Noua et uigeant antiquo more Quirites.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61505 From: Maior Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: religiones, populus et Roma
    Maior Varroni sal;
    recte dicas, bien dites, bene detto, well said;-)

    translation:
    " the words of our friend have no intelligable meaning, but it'snot
    the first time that he hasn't made sense."
    >
    > English, français, italiano
    > le parole del nostro amico hanno nessune intelligibile
    significazzione ma non e la prima volta che parla senza raggione
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Maior
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:19 PM
    > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: religiones, populus et Roma
    >
    >
    > --Maior Lentulo Octavio Pio spd:
    > I used Babelfish from Guzzo's English to Italian, I think it
    worked
    > rather well. It's below and here is the Babelfish link:
    > http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt
    >
    > I dei dell'Egitto e del loro cultus erano molto importanti per il
    > nostro cultura: la vista orphic lo usa mólto e molti Romani
    adorano
    > quei dei dai loro riti. Il dio degli ebrei e del relativo religio
    era
    > importante perché ci erano i relativi riti antichi, era la prova
    > della natura pericolosa del religio cristiano (un religio contro
    il
    > relativo maiorum di usanze). Il " people" vivendo durante l'età
    > antica in quella terra, ora denominata l'Israele o il Palestine,
    non
    > era stato ammirato mai da Romans, a causa del loro modo di vivere
    e
    > forse della lotta (che fuoriesce per la sopravvivenza). Ora,
    potete
    > vedere i pontifices romani che ammirano gli ebrei, perché Città
    del
    > Vaticano romana adora il loro dio (molti cattolici pensano che
    siano
    > cugini degli ebrei.) e quei pontifices vogliono andare visitare
    > quella terra sanguinante. Ora, potete vedere la gente di un dio,
    ma
    > mai non dimenticate che il dio della gente è il dio della guerra,
    > perché il populus significa il exercitus. Pax Deorum et Roma!
    > I tried with Babelfish from his English to Italian:
    > pretty good.
    >
    > > I checked the Google translation service you mentioned with
    your
    > text you wrote in your previous message, this:
    > >
    > > "He asked for Italian, though. And again, if you're going to
    use
    > >
    > > automated translation services, use them to translate to your
    own
    > >
    > > language or one you know. Language translation is still a
    research
    > topic
    > >
    > > and nowhere near a finished product - you will need to double-
    check
    > any
    > >
    > > machine output manually."
    > >
    > > I translated it with Google translator first into Italian, then
    to
    > Hungarian, and finally again into English. This is the result
    here:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "He asked the Italian government. And again, if you plan to use
    > Translation services, translation of the the language or know.
    > Language translation is the topic of research
    > > and at the end of nowhere - if you have to check that all hand-
    > held device output."
    > >
    > >
    > > It's LOL !!!
    > >
    > > Vale!
    > > Lentulus
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    > >
    > > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
    > > antispam e messenger integrato.
    > > http://it.mail.yahoo.com/%c3%82 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-
    virus mail.
    > Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61506 From: Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Aureliano omnibusque s.p.d.

    >However, [the SCA] has evolved to the point that
    many of the leading
    >medieval and Renaissance scholars of the day
    started with the SCA.

        That's impressive. Can Nova Roma make such a statement? If not, why not?

    >The principal difference that I see between
    the SCA and NR is that the SCA
    >was founded before the Internet and had
    to become an organization in which
    >travelling to participate was a
    requirement. NR is a mostly internet organization

        Maybe that should change. Maybe some things must require travel. For an example, the Senate could be required to meet yearly (or every other year; regularly), in-person. Or every magistrate should be required to attend at least one regional conventus every year. Nova Roma could help offset some of the costs, if possible.

    >Most of the membership of Nova Roma could use a
    little more of the
    >enthusiasm and social interaction of the SCA.

        Agreed. I'm not in the SCA, but I know many people who are. And the community there is tight-knit, face-to-face, and active. I think we could learn a lot from the SCA, their history, and their organization. Just think if Nova Roma were as large and as active as the SCA! May the gods help us to achieve such a goal!

    Optime vale, et valete!

    --
    Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    Lictor Curiatus, Accensus Consulum, et Scriba Aedilis Curulis
    http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61507 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    As we all know, beef is the king of meats in the world now (writing as I eat my double cheeseburger) but has it always been so?  I think not (if I were Descartes, I would disappear now).  In Republican Rome, it is the pig and the chicken that were the primary animals of sacrifice at the crossroads and were used as the most often sacrificed animals in public sacrifices.  Bulls and oxen were only brought out for the big public sacrifices in the Urbs for Iuppiter and Neptunus.  Now we did have the ox-sheep-pig sacrifice for beating the bounds of ones property but that was likely more of an annual rustic sacrifice.  Nay, I must say that it was the humble porker that was the king or imperator of meats in Old Rome, followed by the chicken (queen), the sheep (senator), the dove (praetor), and other minor animals.  The bull and the ox were only used as occasional variations since it is hard to pull a plow or harrow with a pig.  So when you are in doubt as to what is meant to be a true Roman, grab your flask of liquament and head out to the barbecue pit for a bite of porker to feel that you are a part of the best of Rome.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
    yum-yum, pass the sauce.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gallagher <spqr753@...>
    To: Nova-Roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:01 pm
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Otium

    Salve Annia Minucia Marcella

    "The Main List is not Nova Roma."
     
    No the main list is the FORUM of Nova Roma.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: annia@ciarin. com
    Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:26:52 -0500
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Otium


    Salve,

    I will once again reiterate:

    The Main List is not Nova Roma.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:
    Salvete omnes,
     
    Compared to the traffic, threads, and topics of 2005, it seems to me (admittedly away) that Nova Roma has become unrepublican? Citizens of Republican Rome (apart from the family Pison and the Epicureans in Campania) were a decidedly talkative lot in the Forum as to matters of everything religious, political, social, cultural, and economic with respect to Rome (the city where the gods are citizens). Did I come back on a lull or what?
     
    Or did the princeps imperial order take over so withdrawal from public life is the ars
    vivendi of the day?
     
    Valete,
    A. Sempronius Regulus



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61508 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
    Cousin Paulinus,

    You should know by now that it is impossible to get any of the Minuciae to shut up . . . even if you tie their hands behind their backs.  They are the Energizer Bunnies of NR . . . they keep going and going and going.

    Aureliane


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 3:04 pm
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato

    Salve,

    Never.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Gallagher wrote:
    Salve Annia Minucia Marcella

    Madam for once can you please just shut the BLANK up.
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus




    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: annia@ciarin. com
    Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:21:36 -0500
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete


    Salve,

    I would prefer that he not return. He has been the source of much unneeded strife. No one picks on him because of his religion, he's not the only christian here. Perhaps if he takes a break from Nova Roma and comes back at a later time he will have learned that not everything said about christianity is an attack, and would be in a less defensive mindset.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
    Maybe there is. Maybe not. I wait for his explanations privately.

    If he *really* wants to leave us then nothing can stop him. Such public announcements of resigning citizens are usually the last scream for help and affirmation if the community really appreciates his presence or their disappearing remains unnoticed. It is similar to those who commit a not well executed suicide because they don't really want to die but they want to get help; but one who does really want to suicide himself you can't stop.

    Maybe Cato return if he see there is appreciation for his presence.

    If he really want to commit a "virtual suicide", we can't stop it...

    --- Lun 16/2/09, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> ha scritto:


    Salve,

    There are many christians in NR that have not had the same trouble as Cato. He's using his religious debates as an excuse to leave. I suspect there's another reason for leaving.

    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
    Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.


    Yesterday I made the Lupercalia sacrifices, but I have no stomach to share this when I see that one of our most prominent and best fellow citizens is leaving Nova Roma only because of a few who did not leave peace to him speaking about his faith that was also the faith of many good Romans.

    Christianity *can be* a part of one's Romanitas, and it's absolutely correct, perfectly right and Roman thing.

    Christianity is part of Roman tradition, and all we can do is not to offend ANY of the gods that favour Rome: Christ is a Roman god at least for a 1700 years now.

    CATO LEAVING Nova Roma is a very bad omen, and it is the MOST BIGGEST loss of our citizenry since our history.

    I very much hope he reconsider this.

    I ask Cato's every friend and enemy to write him and to ask him to stay. I did this.


    Without his double dactyles this forum will be not the same place.


    --- Lun 16/2/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> ha scritto:


    Cato quirites SPD

    Salvete.

    I hereby resign my citizenship, my senatorial seat, my legature, and any and all positions I
    hold as scribe.

    I apologize to my fellow patres and matres conscripti and to the current sole Curule Aedile.

    I instruct the office of the censors to destroy all information regarding me contained in any
    medium whatsoever immediately.

    For 6 years it has been, for the most part, a distinct pleasure.

    "Amicitiae nostrae memoriam spero sempiternam fore." (Cicero)

    Valete

    Gaius Equitius Cato




    Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            


    Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61509 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
    Cato Petronio Dextro sal.

    Salve!

    May I work on putting your poem into English rhyming verse?

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > Beautiful poem, Petroni!
    >
    > Thank you very much, Livia Plauta.
    >
    > If I translate it in English I wonder if it will be as beautiful as
    > in Latin...
    >
    > Suddenly tower up your temples, Quirine,
    > Which break through the dust of the old ages
    > And renew life they long ago had in Roma.
    > Thus they did because I have to oint the weapons of Quirinus
    > That's divine law during these holydays to oint them with greasy
    > pitch.
    > I, flamen Portunalis, sacrificed with the proper rites
    > And said the formules by which in the pax deorum
    > Nova Roma lives et Quirites flourish with ancient virtues.
    >
    > That does not sing as well as in Latin.
    >
    > Et surrexerunt subito tua templa, Quirine,
    > Priscorum aeuorum quae se ex puluere rumpunt
    > Et uitam renouant quam Romae quondam habuerunt.
    > Sic faciunt, quia mi sunt unguenda arma Quirini
    > Quae diebus pingui pice festis unguere fas est.
    > Iam Portunalis flamen feci sacra rite,
    > Dixi certaque uerba ut uiuat in pace deorum
    > Roma Noua et uigeant antiquo more Quirites.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61510 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    It is my (limited) understanding that as bovines were beasts of burden, they were both of high value as ploughers and pullers, so a little beyond the scope of most sacrificers, and of little gastronomical interest since their life of hard labour made for a tough steak, so of little interest to food-producers. I have also read that the limited pasturelands of Latium and Italy in general discouraged large-scale herding of animals as big as the bovine.
     
    It is in the sincerest spirit of Romanitas and their love of pork that I quote the famous French thinker and tenderloin Cochontes who said, 'I oink therefore I ham.' =)
     
    Vale,
    Regulus

    Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:29 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Beef vs Pork

    As we all know, beef is the king of meats in the world now (writing as I eat my double cheeseburger) but has it always been so?  I think not (if I were Descartes, I would disappear now).  In Republican Rome, it is the pig and the chicken that were the primary animals of sacrifice at the crossroads and were used as the most often sacrificed animals in public sacrifices.  Bulls and oxen were only brought out for the big public sacrifices in the Urbs for Iuppiter and Neptunus.  Now we did have the ox-sheep-pig sacrifice for beating the bounds of ones property but that was likely more of an annual rustic sacrifice.  Nay, I must say that it was the humble porker that was the king or imperator of meats in Old Rome, followed by the chicken (queen), the sheep (senator), the dove (praetor), and other minor animals.  The bull and the ox were only used as occasional variations since it is hard to pull a plow or harrow with a pig.  So when you are in doubt as to what is meant to be a true Roman, grab your flask of liquament and head out to the barbecue pit for a bite of porker to feel that you are a part of the best of Rome.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
    yum-yum, pass the sauce.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    To: Nova-Roma <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:01 pm
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Otium

    Salve Annia Minucia Marcella

    "The Main List is not Nova Roma."
     
    No the main list is the FORUM of Nova Roma.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: annia@ciarin. com
    Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:26:52 -0500
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Otium


    Salve,

    I will once again reiterate:

    The Main List is not Nova Roma.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:
    Salvete omnes,
     
    Compared to the traffic, threads, and topics of 2005, it seems to me (admittedly away) that Nova Roma has become unrepublican? Citizens of Republican Rome (apart from the family Pison and the Epicureans in Campania) were a decidedly talkative lot in the Forum as to matters of everything religious, political, social, cultural, and economic with respect to Rome (the city where the gods are citizens). Did I come back on a lull or what?
     
    Or did the princeps imperial order take over so withdrawal from public life is the ars
    vivendi of the day?
     
    Valete,
    A. Sempronius Regulus



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61511 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Sodalitas Christianorum
    Avete omnes,


    I am interested in the formation of a Sodalitas Christianorum, a club
    for Christians and those interested in the study of Christianity
    (especially during the Roman period). If anyone else is interested in
    helping with this project please contact me via the Nova Roma site or
    email my yahoo. Gratias vobis ago.


    In cruce salus,

    M. Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61513 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Sodalitas Christianorum
    Salve iterum, mi amice vetus! "Or spiritus, spiritus etc...", casu
    nescit nomen Latinum mihi. Ex IRC! Putavi ne adhuc te adesse.

    Are you going to exclude non-Christians from joining?

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fratercorleonis"
    <fratercorleonis@...> wrote:
    >
    > Avete omnes,
    >
    >
    > I am interested in the formation of a Sodalitas Christianorum, a club
    > for Christians and those interested in the study of Christianity
    > (especially during the Roman period). If anyone else is interested in
    > helping with this project please contact me via the Nova Roma site or
    > email my yahoo. Gratias vobis ago.
    >
    >
    > In cruce salus,
    >
    > M. Flavius Iustinus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61514 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Salve,

    Except in Nova Roma, roman ideals and values are apart of our lives and for many of us the religion is apart of our belief too, and none of us have to dress up in a particularly historical fashion for any events.

    In the SCA, going on what was explained to me by a friend who is in it, is that you take on a persona. In NR the only persona I have is the one I am. That's a big difference, imo.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia.ciarin.com


    PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

    Aurelianus Marcella et Rich sal.

    The SCA was originally made up of fantasy, history, and speculative thought back in the 60s.  However, it has evolved to the point that many of the leading medieval and Renaissance scholars of the day started with the SCA.  I would hardly call it exclusively a role-playing organization anymore than I would call Nova Roma a role-playing organization.  The principal difference that I see between the SCA and NR is that the SCA was founded before the Internet and had to become an organization in which travelling to participate was a requirement.  NR is a mostly internet organization in which the majority of those who travel to participate started in groups like the SCA (like me and many members of my province) or military re-enactment units (like Legio V).  Most of the membership of Nova Roma could use a little more of the enthusiasm and social interaction of the SCA.

    Rich - I am sorry that you live so far away from America Austrorientalis.  Our province has had two major and a number of local events plus we participated in a major museum-reenactment event in Mobile in 2006.  Perhaps you could get involved with Nova Roma and help some of our members learn a little more about the joys of social interaction.

    Valete.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:44 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Curious non-member with some questions.

    Salve,

    Except you referenced the SCA(a lot) which is most definitely a role-playing organization.


    I'll thank you not to compare us to renfaire characters like Lord Seamus of the Kingdom of Caid.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Rich wrote:
    On Sun, 2009-02-08 at 05:04 +0000, t.ovidius_aquila wrote:

    You're the second person to assign the words "role-play" or "RPG" to
    me, when I never used them.

    I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. :-)

    Best,
    Rich...


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61515 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Valete
    Salve,

    Of course. No reason why I shouldn't help you out just because you're a jerk sometimes.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia.ciarin.com


    gaiuspopilliuslaenas wrote:

    Laenas Marcella sal.

    >>Stop taking yourself so seriously.<<

    Still giving orders/advice?

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61516 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
    Salve,

    ROFLMAO! That might be true but I would say that Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix has never been known to be loquacious. Does anyone know if he's back from being deployed yet?
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia.ciarin.com


    PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:

    Cousin Paulinus,

    You should know by now that it is impossible to get any of the Minuciae to shut up . . . even if you tie their hands behind their backs.  They are the Energizer Bunnies of NR . . . they keep going and going and going.

    Aureliane


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 3:04 pm
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato

    Salve,

    Never.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Gallagher wrote:
    Salve Annia Minucia Marcella

    Madam for once can you please just shut the BLANK up.
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61517 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cn. Lentulus pontifex M. Flavio sal.


    I would support to create a sodalitas for people interested in Christianity, but you must be careful: I personally would not support a sodalitas "for Christians". Nova Roman sodalitates aren't based on one's religion: all official sodalitates are and shall be part of the Nova Roman Commonwealth and thus they are part of the Roman religion.

    So when we create the Sodalitas Christiana ("Christianorum" here is not good term), we create a sodalitas for everyone, polytheists and monotheists, Christians and non-Christans as well.

    The purpose of this sodalitas shall be to provade the citizenry with a discussion forum ablout all things Christian connected to Romanitas, and generally to focus on ancient Christianity and allow place for Nova Romans to talk about their modern religious life connected Christianity.

    Romans are all for tradition - therefore I think the old NR_Christians should be the forum of the new sodalitas, but it must be renamed as NR_Sodalitas_Christiana

    The rules of such a sodalitas must contain that members of this sodalitas shall respect and accept the state religion and support the traditional polytheistic Roman religion.

    So when we talk about forming a Sodalitas Christiana, these are things to observe and consider.




    --- Mer 18/2/09, fratercorleonis <fratercorleonis@...> ha scritto:

    Avete omnes,

    I am interested in the formation of a Sodalitas Christianorum, a club
    for Christians and those interested in the study of Christianity
    (especially during the Roman period). If anyone else is interested in
    helping with this project please contact me via the Nova Roma site or
    email my yahoo. Gratias vobis ago.

    In cruce salus,

    M. Flavius Iustinus



    Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61518 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato Flavio Iustino sal.

    Salve!

    There is currently a List for things of this nature:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Christians/

    If it needs to be slightly altered to conform with the desires of the CP and Senate in order to
    become an actual sodalitas I am sure that it can be done.

    Vale bene,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61519 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cn. Lentulus pontifex C. Catoni senatori praetorio sal.


    >>> If it needs to be slightly altered to conform with the desires of the CP and Senate in order to become an actual sodalitas I am sure that it can be done. <<<


    Things to do:

    - alter the name to NR_Sodalitas_Christiana,
    - appoint a temporary leadership of moderators, at least a 3 persons,
    - accept a Charter and send it to the senate

    I think the senate will accept it if you contact the most prominent senators before sending the application for the establishment and you ask their opinion and support.

    I suggest the sodalitas follow the Charter of the Sodalitas Latinitatis as an example. The Latin Sodality has the most perfect and well formed Charter born after a half year of work by a team including our finest A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Equitius Marinus and others.

    I post the Charter of Latinitas to the NR_Christians List in order to help you.


    Vale!


    Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato, antispam e messenger integrato.            
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61520 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    "Pork is fine but swine is divine." Henry II

    --- On Wed, 2/18/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> wrote:

    From: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Beef vs Pork
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 10:42 PM

    It is my (limited) understanding that as bovines were beasts of burden, they were both of high value as ploughers and pullers, so a little beyond the scope of most sacrificers, and of little gastronomical interest since their life of hard labour made for a tough steak, so of little interest to food-producers. I have also read that the limited pasturelands of Latium and Italy in general discouraged large-scale herding of animals as big as the bovine.
     
    It is in the sincerest spirit of Romanitas and their love of pork that I quote the famous French thinker and tenderloin Cochontes who said, 'I oink therefore I ham.' =)
     
    Vale,
    Regulus

    Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:29 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Beef vs Pork

    As we all know, beef is the king of meats in the world now (writing as I eat my double cheeseburger) but has it always been so?  I think not (if I were Descartes, I would disappear now).  In Republican Rome, it is the pig and the chicken that were the primary animals of sacrifice at the crossroads and were used as the most often sacrificed animals in public sacrifices.  Bulls and oxen were only brought out for the big public sacrifices in the Urbs for Iuppiter and Neptunus.  Now we did have the ox-sheep-pig sacrifice for beating the bounds of ones property but that was likely more of an annual rustic sacrifice.  Nay, I must say that it was the humble porker that was the king or imperator of meats in Old Rome, followed by the chicken (queen), the sheep (senator), the dove (praetor), and other minor animals.  The bull and the ox were only used as occasional variations since it is hard to pull a plow or harrow with a pig.  So when you are in doubt as to what is meant to be a true Roman, grab your flask of liquament and head out to the barbecue pit for a bite of porker to feel that you are a part of the best of Rome.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus
    yum-yum, pass the sauce.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    To: Nova-Roma <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:01 pm
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Otium

    Salve Annia Minucia Marcella

    "The Main List is not Nova Roma."
     
    No the main list is the FORUM of Nova Roma.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: annia@ciarin. com
    Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:26:52 -0500
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Otium


    Salve,

    I will once again reiterate:

    The Main List is not Nova Roma.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    A. Sempronius Regulus wrote:
    Salvete omnes,
     
    Compared to the traffic, threads, and topics of 2005, it seems to me (admittedly away) that Nova Roma has become unrepublican? Citizens of Republican Rome (apart from the family Pison and the Epicureans in Campania) were a decidedly talkative lot in the Forum as to matters of everything religious, political, social, cultural, and economic with respect to Rome (the city where the gods are citizens). Did I come back on a lull or what?
     
    Or did the princeps imperial order take over so withdrawal from public life is the ars
    vivendi of the day?
     
    Valete,
    A. Sempronius Regulus




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61521 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    It would probably serve Nova Roma better (if such a suggestion were taken seriously) to have a sodalitas to explore Jewish identity in the Roman period, since (at least in the second temple time span) early Christianity was a part of Jewish identity.  Then discussions could be had on both Judaism during the period and when Christianity became separate from Judaism, and as a part of Judaism.  It would make more sense to have them discussed together instead of as two seperate and distinct entities.

    Valete:

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus 

    On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

    Cn. Lentulus pontifex M. Flavio sal.


    I would support to create a sodalitas for people interested in Christianity, but you must be careful: I personally would not support a sodalitas "for Christians". Nova Roman sodalitates aren't based on one's religion: all official sodalitates are and shall be part of the Nova Roman Commonwealth and thus they are part of the Roman religion.

    So when we create the Sodalitas Christiana ("Christianorum" here is not good term), we create a sodalitas for everyone, polytheists and monotheists, Christians and non-Christans as well.

    The purpose of this sodalitas shall be to provade the citizenry with a discussion forum ablout all things Christian connected to Romanitas, and generally to focus on ancient Christianity and allow place for Nova Romans to talk about their modern religious life connected Christianity.

    Romans are all for tradition - therefore I think the old NR_Christians should be the forum of the new sodalitas, but it must be renamed as NR_Sodalitas_Christiana

    The rules of such a sodalitas must contain that members of this sodalitas shall respect and accept the state religion and support the traditional polytheistic Roman religion.

    So when we talk about forming a Sodalitas Christiana, these are things to observe and consider.




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61522 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Cato
    He is back, and working as a recruiter and going to school.

    When you get him face to face he can go on and on and on.  I miss him here.

    Valete;

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> wrote:

    Salve,

    ROFLMAO! That might be true but I would say that Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Felix has never been known to be loquacious. Does anyone know if he's back from being deployed yet?


    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61523 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Salve Marcella,

    Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...> writes:

    > In the SCA, going on what was explained to me by a friend who is in it,
    > is that you take on a persona. In NR the only persona I have is the one
    > I am. That's a big difference, imo.

    An awful lot of people in the SCA do take on personae, but it's not a
    requirement of membership. When I was an associate member (in order
    to fence in their rapier tournaments) I just went by my own name. So
    at least in terms of my personal experience, Nova Roma's requirement
    to adopt a name that my parents didn't give me imposes more of a "role
    playing" aspect than anything the SCA ever required of me.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61524 From: Annia Minucia Marcella Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Salve,

    I think if you make it a role when using your roman name, that would be true. I just consider this my pseudonym. In heathenism, I also have a name, Bathilda, and it's not a role either. My friend's son is half chinese, so he has an american name and a chinese name. It's not just an RP thing to have another name.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia.ciarin.com


    Gnaeus Equitius Marinus wrote:

    Salve Marcella,

    Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com> writes:

    > In the SCA, going on what was explained to me by a friend who is in it,
    > is that you take on a persona. In NR the only persona I have is the one
    > I am. That's a big difference, imo.

    An awful lot of people in the SCA do take on personae, but it's not a
    requirement of membership. When I was an associate member (in order
    to fence in their rapier tournaments) I just went by my own name. So
    at least in terms of my personal experience, Nova Roma's requirement
    to adopt a name that my parents didn't give me imposes more of a "role
    playing" aspect than anything the SCA ever required of me.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61525 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    Avete;

    "Mmmmm, bits o' pig..." - H Simpsonius Droolus ;-)

    Here's what I made for dinner on "Valentine's Day," having also cooked
    it at New Year's.

    I used a slow cooker and this took about 4 1/2 hours on the "high setting."

    Food stuffs: 4# pork tenderloin, 2 large tart apples - cut into walnut
    size chunks, 1/4 c melted sweet butter, 1 1/2 c hot water, 1/2 c
    honey, apple pie spice mix* to taste

    Pre-warm the cooker for about ten minutes with 4 cups of boiling hot
    water (which is poured out) and then put in the melted butter and
    "grease" the bottom and sides of the cooker. Place the pork (fat side
    up) and apples in the cooker, dust with apple-pie spice mix and pour
    in 1 c hot water; cover and turn the heat to high setting. Let cook
    for about 2 hours and then mix the honey, 1/2 c hot water and another
    teaspoon of the spice mix, pour this over the pork and apples. Let
    finish cooking until the internal temperature of the pork is 170F.

    Machinatrix made sourdough bread, this accompanied the pork and apples
    along with a steamed mix of mushrooms, onions, spinach, endive,
    escarole and leeks, dressed with olive oil, lemon juice, minced garlic
    and fresh cracked black pepper.

    We drank semi-sweet mead that I brewed with blueberry honey, dried
    blueberries and blueberry juice.

    Before dinner we had black olives, stuffed grape leaves and Feta
    cheese, accompanied by Retsina.

    After dinner we had figs, dates, and almonds, accompanied by sweet
    mead made with wild flower honey plus apple, cherry, blackberry,
    raspberry, plum, red grape and cranberry juices.

    *In a jar place and shake to mix the following ground spices: 4 t
    cinnamon, 2 t nutmeg, 1 t each cardamom and allspice, 1/2 t clove

    =====================================
    In amicitia et fide
    Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
    Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
    Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta

    Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum

    http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
    http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
    http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
    http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
    --
    May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
    May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
    May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61526 From: lucia_herennia75 Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Trying to contact an administrator
    Salve,
    I have been trying to contact a site administrator, because I would
    like to change (more like adding) a picture of my self at the civis
    Albvm. I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    log in and I try but can't get in Please help

    Vale
    L. Herennia Mento
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61527 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
    Salve Mento,

    Please take a look at this page:
    http://novaroma.org/nr/Password

    It explains the steps you need to take to create or recover a password
    that will allow you to access the Album Civium.

    If you've already done everything listed there, and you still can't
    get in, please write to me off-list and I'll see what else I can do.

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS


    lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@...> writes:

    > Salve,
    > I have been trying to contact a site administrator, because I would
    > like to change (more like adding) a picture of my self at the civis
    > Albvm. I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    > log in and I try but can't get in Please help
    >
    > Vale
    > L. Herennia Mento
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61528 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato Cn. Cornelio Lentulo K. Fabio Buteoni Modianusque SPD

    Salvete.

    Thank you, Cornelius Lentulus. I shall begin work on it post haste.

    Fabius Modianus, while I do appreciate the reasoning behind such a suggestion - from an
    *ancient* Roman perspective - I must make very clear that the two *are* quite distinct and
    separate entities and should be treated as such. They are theologically *fundamentally*
    incompatible, and treating them as the same would be...complicated. Entia non sunt
    multiplicanda praeter necessitatem :)

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61529 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
    Poplicola sal.

    I think you misread her, Marine! Anyway, Lucia, I sent my picture to
    Callidus but I'm not sure what the protocol is now since Agricola and
    Callidus are no longer working on the site, and since the Senate
    hasn't given the aediles control over it, there has been no action on
    what to do now.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Salve Mento,
    >
    > Please take a look at this page:
    > http://novaroma.org/nr/Password
    >
    > It explains the steps you need to take to create or recover a password
    > that will allow you to access the Album Civium.
    >
    > If you've already done everything listed there, and you still can't
    > get in, please write to me off-list and I'll see what else I can do.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    >
    >
    > lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@...> writes:
    >
    > > Salve,
    > > I have been trying to contact a site administrator, because I would
    > > like to change (more like adding) a picture of my self at the civis
    > > Albvm. I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    > > log in and I try but can't get in Please help
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > L. Herennia Mento
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61530 From: Daniel M Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    I would support this

    -Tiberius Apollonius Taurus


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > It would probably serve Nova Roma better (if such a suggestion were
    taken
    > seriously) to have a sodalitas to explore Jewish identity in the
    Roman
    > period, since (at least in the second temple time span) early
    Christianity
    > was a part of Jewish identity. Then discussions could be had on
    both
    > Judaism during the period and when Christianity became separate from
    > Judaism, and as a part of Judaism. It would make more sense to
    have them
    > discussed together instead of as two seperate and distinct entities.
    >
    > Valete:
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
    >
    > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
    > cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex M. Flavio sal.
    > >
    > >
    > > I would support to create a sodalitas for people interested in
    > > Christianity, but you must be careful: I personally would not
    support a
    > > sodalitas "for Christians". Nova Roman sodalitates aren't based
    on one's
    > > religion: all official sodalitates are and shall be part of the
    Nova Roman
    > > Commonwealth and thus they are part of the Roman religion.
    > >
    > > So when we create the Sodalitas Christiana ("Christianorum" here
    is not
    > > good term), we create a sodalitas for everyone, polytheists and
    monotheists,
    > > Christians and non-Christans as well.
    > >
    > > The purpose of this sodalitas shall be to provade the citizenry
    with a
    > > discussion forum ablout all things Christian connected to
    Romanitas, and
    > > generally to focus on ancient Christianity and allow place for
    Nova Romans
    > > to talk about their modern religious life connected Christianity.
    > >
    > > Romans are all for tradition - therefore I think the old
    NR_Christians
    > > should be the forum of the new sodalitas, but it must be renamed
    as
    > > NR_Sodalitas_Christiana
    > >
    > > The rules of such a sodalitas must contain that members of this
    sodalitas
    > > shall respect and accept the state religion and support the
    traditional
    > > polytheistic Roman religion.
    > >
    > > So when we talk about forming a Sodalitas Christiana, these are
    things to
    > > observe and consider.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61531 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cn. Lentule!

    As I posted, the sodalitas would be open to anyone interested, so long
    as they are civil. It is not a place for drama, fights, or ad hominem
    attacks or bashing of any religion. All edicts, laws, etc of Nova Roma
    will be enforced. Revolution/sedition is not the intent here.



    In cruce salus,


    Marcus Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61532 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    I have already earlier today created a list for it:


    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas-Christianorum



    M. Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61533 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
    Salve Poplicola,

    "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <catullus.poeta@...> writes:

    > I think you misread her, Marine!

    I'm pretty sure I didn't. Consider what she said.

    >> > I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    >> > log in and I try but can't get in Please help

    So she is not able to log in to her Album Civium account. If you look
    at the Password help page I linked to one of the topics covered is, "I
    can't log into my Album Civium account."

    Vale,

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61534 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
    Typing "photo" into the main page search box will bring you to a
    disambiguation page with two choices:

    1. NovaRoma:Submit Citizen Photo For instructions on uploading your
    Album Civium / website bio photo.

    2. NovaRoma:DailyPhotoData For how to add a photo to the Man Page
    "Photo of the Day" rotation.

    Number 1 would be the choice because we need to upload a photo to
    either the Album Civ. or the wiki.

    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/NovaRoma:Submit_Citizen_Photo gives pretty
    complete instructions, but what needs to be added is this:

    If you already have a citizen photo, just go to the page for that
    image and click "Upload a new version of this file". The new image
    will replace the old one.

    MLA


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
    <catullus.poeta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Poplicola sal.
    >
    > I think you misread her, Marine! Anyway, Lucia, I sent my picture to
    > Callidus but I'm not sure what the protocol is now since Agricola and
    > Callidus are no longer working on the site, and since the Senate
    > hasn't given the aediles control over it, there has been no action on
    > what to do now.
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Mento,
    > >
    > > Please take a look at this page:
    > > http://novaroma.org/nr/Password
    > >
    > > It explains the steps you need to take to create or recover a
    password
    > > that will allow you to access the Album Civium.
    > >
    > > If you've already done everything listed there, and you still can't
    > > get in, please write to me off-list and I'll see what else I can do.
    > >
    > > Vale,
    > >
    > > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    > >
    > >
    > > lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@> writes:
    > >
    > > > Salve,
    > > > I have been trying to contact a site administrator, because I would
    > > > like to change (more like adding) a picture of my self at the civis
    > > > Albvm. I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    > > > log in and I try but can't get in Please help
    > > >
    > > > Vale
    > > > L. Herennia Mento
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61535 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-18
    Subject: Re: Trying to contact an administrator
    Poplicola Marino spd.

    Ah, I was the one who was misreading! I guess because one does not log
    into their account in order to add/change their picture, I looked over
    that as unnecessary.

    Apologies.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > Salve Poplicola,
    >
    > "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <catullus.poeta@...> writes:
    >
    > > I think you misread her, Marine!
    >
    > I'm pretty sure I didn't. Consider what she said.
    >
    > >> > I have trying for days to do this and I can't it tells me to
    > >> > log in and I try but can't get in Please help
    >
    > So she is not able to log in to her Album Civium account. If you look
    > at the Password help page I linked to one of the topics covered is, "I
    > can't log into my Album Civium account."
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61536 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
    C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

    >
    > May I work on putting your poem into English rhyming verse?

    Yes you can, as you are more able than me to make English poems.

    Optime uale.

    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61537 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Ave Cato!

    We had already put a list up, so it is not necessary for you to change
    your list. Please go there, we want to make you the third moderator.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas-Christianorum.


    In cruce salus,

    M. Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61538 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: a. d. XIII Kalendas Martias: QUIRINALIA
    Cato Petronio Dextro sal.

    Salve!

    Well, I did it before I got an answer - but I've moved it here :)


    This is a *very* rough offering in sonnet form, with embellishments:

    Arise again! temples of Quirinus
    which stand shrouded by centuries of doom;
    the ages fall from thee as columns tow'r
    once more and portals stand as in Old Rome.
    Thy swords we now anoint and free from rust;
    receive Thine arms and conquer now our gloom
    for festive days return at this Thine hour!
    Thy priest Portunal brings you this, his poem;
    his hands in supplication raised for us,
    he offers Thee true rites in these same rooms
    in which the peace 'twixt Gods and men did flow'r.
    New Rome shall live and flourish! this, our home!
    With ancient virtues once again renewed
    Her People stand with radiance imbued!

    Vale bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61539 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Because someone already was confused, merely remove the period from
    the URL. So...

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas-Christianorum/

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fratercorleonis"
    <fratercorleonis@...> wrote:
    >
    > Ave Cato!
    >
    > We had already put a list up, so it is not necessary for you to change
    > your list. Please go there, we want to make you the third moderator.
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas-Christianorum.
    >
    >
    > In cruce salus,
    >
    > M. Flavius Iustinus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61540 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    Ave!

    > "Pork is fine but swine is divine." Henry II

    "Dans le cochon tout est bon." French advertising.

    Vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61541 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Sodalitas Christiana
    Omnes:

    per request, the name of the forming Sodalitas has been amended to
    Sodalitas Christiana. The new URL is
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalitas-Christiana. Please make a note
    of it.


    In cruce salus,

    M. Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61542 From: fratercorleonis Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...>
    wrote:
    >

    >
    > Fabius Modianus, while I do appreciate the reasoning behind such a
    suggestion - from an
    > *ancient* Roman perspective - I must make very clear that the two
    *are* quite distinct and
    > separate entities and should be treated as such. They are
    theologically *fundamentally*
    > incompatible, and treating them as the same would be...complicated.
    Entia non sunt
    > multiplicanda praeter necessitatem :)



    Agreed. They are separate. People know this.


    In cruce salus,

    M. Flavius Iustinus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61543 From: philippe cardon Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    je suis un cochon....et j'aime ça
     und auf Deutsch "Haben Sie Schwein?" meint?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:21 AM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Beef vs Pork

    Ave!

    > "Pork is fine but swine is divine." Henry II

    "Dans le cochon tout est bon." French advertising.

    Vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a été contrôlé par l'anti-virus mail.
    Aucun virus connu à ce jour par nos services n'a été détecté.


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61544 From: Vaughn Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Salve,
    I think that sounds like a marvelous idea. While I understand that
    our members are spread over the world(which makes it in its own way
    really amazing) I do not think Ancient Rome was ss spread out. I
    realize of course that Rome WAS spread out but the magistrates did
    have to ge together so many times a year did they not? However I
    realize that people cannot be flying everywhere all the time, so I
    think the suggestion of once a year would do greatly.
    However I think it should be in one place, the place where there is
    the highest concetrarion of Nova Roman citizens. For instance in
    Phoenix, Arizona has more member then any other province we should
    meet in Arizona.
    Great suggestion,

    Di vos incolumes custodiant
    G.I.N.
    GAIVS IVNIVS NERO

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Caelius Ahenobarbus Aureliano omnibusque s.p.d.
    >
    >
    > >However, [the SCA] has evolved to the point that
    > many of the leading
    > >medieval and Renaissance scholars of the day
    > started with the SCA.
    >
    > That's impressive. Can Nova Roma make such a statement? If not,
    why not?
    >
    > >The principal difference that I see between
    > the SCA and NR is that the SCA
    > >was founded before the Internet and had
    > to become an organization in which
    > >travelling to participate was a
    > requirement. NR is a mostly internet organization
    >
    > Maybe that should change. Maybe some things must require
    travel. For an example, the Senate could be required to meet yearly
    (or every other year; regularly), in-person. Or every magistrate
    should be required to attend at least one regional conventus every
    year. Nova Roma could help offset some of the costs, if possible.
    >
    > >Most of the membership of Nova Roma could use a
    > little more of the
    > >enthusiasm and social interaction of the SCA.
    >
    > Agreed. I'm not in the SCA, but I know many people who are. And
    the community there is tight-knit, face-to-face, and active. I think
    we could learn a lot from the SCA, their history, and their
    organization. Just think if Nova Roma were as large and as active as
    the SCA! May the gods help us to achieve such a goal!
    >
    > Optime vale, et valete!
    >
    > --
    > Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    > Lictor Curiatus, Accensus Consulum, et Scriba Aedilis Curulis
    > http://becomingnewthroughtheold.blogspot.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61545 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    The Lex Cassia de creatione sodalitatum (Nova Roma) says:

    II. The above clause is also binding to all Religious groups,
    organizations and associations involving Nova Roma Citizens, with the
    exception that they may only apply to and be approved by the Collegium
    Pontificum.


    This Lex Cassia is talking specifically about sodalitates, so it seems
    that the application would be to the CP, not the Senate, depending on
    how "Religious groups, organizations and associations" is interpreted.
    If "religious" is taken to mean "manifesting devotion to a particular
    religion" then this group (as the purpose is not worship) would apply
    to the Senate. If "religious" is taken to mean "pertaining to or
    concerned with religion or religions" then this Lex Cassia would hand
    control to the CP. Use of the terms "groups, organizations and
    associations" suggests that the broader meaning is to be understood,
    that is, it would place the decision about this group in the hands of
    the CP.

    Our page on sodalitates says "Per the Lex Cassia de creatione
    sodalitatum, any group of citizens may petition the Senate to create a
    sodalitas. The group should form itself informally and operate for six
    months. After that the Senate will consider recognizing it." That six
    months should be plenty of time to decide which is the correct body to
    apply to.


    MLA



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
    <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus pontifex C. Catoni senatori praetorio sal.
    >
    >
    >
    > >>> If it needs to be slightly altered to conform with the desires
    of the CP and Senate in order to become an actual sodalitas I am sure
    that it can be done. <<<
    >
    >
    > Things to do:
    >
    > - alter the name to NR_Sodalitas_Christiana,
    > - appoint a temporary leadership of moderators, at least a 3 persons,
    > - accept a Charter and send it to the senate
    >
    > I think the senate will accept it if you contact the most prominent
    senators before sending the application for the establishment and you
    ask their opinion and support.
    >
    > I suggest the sodalitas follow the Charter of the Sodalitas
    Latinitatis as an example. The Latin Sodality has the most perfect and
    well formed Charter born after a half year of work by a team including
    our finest A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Equitius Marinus and others.
    >
    > I post the Charter of Latinitas to the NR_Christians List in order
    to help you.
    >
    >
    > Vale!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Passa a Yahoo! Mail.
    >
    > La webmail che ti offre GRATIS spazio illimitato,
    > antispam e messenger integrato.
    > http://it.mail.yahoo.com/%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61546 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: a. d. XI Kalendas Martias: Battle of Lugdunum
    M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem
    plurimam dicit: Di parenti felicitatem in nos impertiant.

    Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est:

    Felices Natalis! Today is the birthday of Octavianus Titinius, Flamen
    Furinalis and Sacerdos Dianae.


    AUC 949/ 196 CE or AUC 950 / 197 CE: Septimus Severus defeats
    Clodius Albinus at Lugdunum.

    In the Year of the Five Emperors, P. Helvius Pertinax was murdered on
    28 March 193 after ruling for only 87 days. His murderer, Praetorian
    Praefectus Aemilius Laetus, put the throne up for sale. After all,
    Pertinax was a little miserly with the Praetorians. A wealthy
    Senator Didius Julianus bought the title and lasted until 1 June.
    Lucius Septimus Severus, commanding the legions of Pannonia, took
    Rome, in the name of Decimus Clodius Albinus, and subsequently had
    Didius Julianus executed. Meanwhile in the East, the legions of
    Syria declared Pescennius Niger emperor. Niger, with six to nine
    legions and a large body of auxiliaries, was met by Severus on the
    River Issus in 194 CE.

    Clodius Albinus had been declared emperor by his troops in
    Britannia. He stripped Britannia of nearly every soldier, crossing
    into Gaul in 196 CE with Legiones II Augusta, VI Victrix, and XX
    Valeria Victrix, where the Spanish Legio VII Gemina joined with him.
    Virius Lupus, who would later replace Albinus as governor of
    Britannia, had brought the legiones of his German province to the
    support of Severus, but was soon swept aside by the force that
    Albinus had gathered. Albinus controlled nearly the entire Western
    portion of the Empire, while Septimus Severus tentatively held the
    East. Severus reinforced the Alpine passes, and thereby kept Albinus
    from advancing further. Then he gathered his forces along the Danube
    before crossing into Gaul in a winter campaign. Most scholars place
    the battle in February of 197 CE, based on Tertullian. But a better
    argument would place the battle fought in 196 CE, just before
    Septimus Severus declared himself imperator for the eight time.,
    rather than his ninth time in 197 CE when Septimus Severus campaigned
    in Parthia.

    After an initial victory by Severus at Tinurtium on the Saone River,
    Albinus retired on Lugdunum. It was there, on 19 Feb. 196/7 CE,
    that Severus and Albinus fought what is regarded as the largest and
    bloodiest of battles fought between Romans. The hard fought battle
    lasted over two days. And we know vey little about it. The
    Scriptores Historia Augusta merely tells us, "Albinus was defeated on
    the eleventh day before the Kalends of March (Sept. Sev. 11.7)." Dio
    Cassius offers this account.

    "There were a hundred and fifty thousand soldiers on each side, and
    both leaders were present in the conflict, since it was a life-and
    death struggle between them, though Severus had not previously been
    present at any other battle. Albinus excelled in family and
    education, but his adversary was superior in warfare and was a
    skilful commander. It chanced, however, that in an earlier battle
    Albinus had defeated Lupus, one of Severus' generals, and had slain
    many of his soldiers. The present conflict showed many phases and
    shifts of fortune. Thus, Albinus' left wing was defeated and fled
    back to the camp, and Severus' men, pursuing them, burst in with them
    and proceeded to slay them and to plunder their tents. In the
    meantime Albinus' troops on the right wing, having concealed trenches
    in front of them and pits covered over with earth on the surface,
    advanced as far as these pitfalls and hurled their javelins at long
    range; then, instead of continuing to go forward, they turned back,
    as if frightened, with the purpose of drawing their foes in pursuit.
    And this is exactly what happened. For Severus' men, nettled by their
    brief charge and despising them for their flight after so short an
    advance, rushed against them in the belief that the whole intervening
    distance was passable; but on reaching the trenches, they met with a
    terrible disaster. For the men in the front rank, as soon as the
    surface-covering was broken through, fell into the excavations, and
    those immediately behind them stumbled over them, slipped, and
    likewise fell in; the rest drew back in terror, but their retreat was
    so sudden that they not only lost their footing themselves, but also
    upset those in the rear and drove them into a deep ravine. Great,
    indeed, was the loss of life among both these and those who had
    fallen into the trenches, as horses and men perished in wild
    confusion. And in the midst of this disorder the men between the
    ravine and the trenches were being annihilated by showers of missiles
    and arrows. Severus, seeing this, came to their aid with the
    Pretorians, but, far from helping them, he came very near destroying
    the Pretorians, too, and found his own life imperilled when he lost
    his horse. When he saw all his men in flight, he tore off his riding
    cloak, and drawing his sword, rushed among the fugitives, hoping
    either that they would be ashamed and turn back or that he might
    himself perish with them. Some, indeed, did stop when they saw him in
    this attitude, and turned back; and brought in this way face to face
    with the men following them, they cut down not a few of them,
    supposing them to be Albinus' men, and they routed all their
    pursuers. At this juncture the cavalry under Laetus came up from one
    side and completed their victory. Laetus, it appears, so long as the
    struggle was close, had merely looked on, hoping that both leaders
    would perish and that the soldiers who survived on either side would
    give the supreme power to him; but when he saw that Severus' side was
    prevailing, he also took a hand in the business. Thus Severus
    conquered; but the Roman power suffered a severe blow, inasmuch as
    countless numbers had fallen on both sides. Many even of the victors
    deplored the disaster, for the entire plain was seen to be covered
    with the bodies of men and horses; some of them lay there mutilated
    by many wounds, as if hacked in pieces, and others, though unwounded,
    were piled up in heaps, weapons were scattered about, and blood
    flowed in streams, even pouring into the rivers. Albinus took refuge
    in a house that stood beside the Rhone, but when he saw the whole
    place surrounded, he slew himself." ~ Dio Cassius 86.6-7

    Accounts differ on the battle's aftermath. Dio Cassius tells how
    Albinus committed suicide. The Historia Augusta says that he was
    still half alive when Albinus was brought before Severus. While
    still in Gallia, Septimus began executing anyone of prominence who
    had supported Albinus in hopes of a return to good government.

    "Next, he gave orders that the bodies of the senators who had been
    slain in the battle should be mutilated. And then, when Albinus' body
    was brought before him, he had him beheaded while still half alive,
    gave orders that his head should be taken to Rome, and followed up
    the order with a letter. . . The rest of Albinus' body was, by
    Severus' order, laid out in front of his own home, and kept there for
    a long time exposed to view. Furthermore, Severus himself rode on
    horseback over the body, and when the horse shied, he spoke to it and
    loosed the reins, that it might trample boldly. Some add that he
    ordered Albinus' body to be cast into the Rhone, and also the bodies
    of his wife and children.

    "Countless persons who had sided with Albinus were put to death,
    among them numerous leading men and many distinguished women, and all
    their goods were confiscated and went to swell the public treasury.
    Many nobles of the Gauls and Spains were also put to death at this
    time. Finally, he gave his soldiers sums of money such as no emperor
    had ever given before. Yet as a result of these confiscations, he
    left his sons a fortune greater than any other emperor had left to
    his heirs, for he had made a large part of the gold in the Gauls,
    Spains, and Italy imperial property." ~ Scriptores Historia Augusta,
    Life of Septimus Severus 11.5-12.3

    Dio Cassius was one of the Senators to survive, but it is clear where
    his sympathies lay, and probably that of the rest of the Senate as
    well. "He caused us (the Senate) special dismay by constantly styling
    himself the son of Marcus (Aurelius) and the brother of Commodus."

    The result of the battle made Septimus Severus the sole emperor for
    the next fourteen years. Lugdunum was given over to the legions to
    loot and burn. By June Severus had returned to Rome where his purge
    of those who had supported Albinus next turned on the Senate itself.
    Their properties were confiscated, twenty-nine senators were
    executed, the Senate intimidated, and then while railing against the
    Senate, Severus demanded that they deify Commodus. Later that same
    year Severus was back in the eastern provinces while conducting a
    limited war against the Parthians, Britannia, however, having been
    stripped of legions by Albinus, proved to be the trouble spot for
    Severus. First Virius Lupus was made governor (until about 202 CE),
    restoring some control over the region south of Hadrian's Wall, but
    the region further north he abandoned. The Wall of Hadrian could not
    be rebuilt until some years later, c. 205 CE. Even that was not the
    end of Severus' troubles in Britannia. On 4 Feb. 211 Septimius
    Severus died near York while fighting against yet another uprising in
    troublesome Britannia.


    AUC 1109 / 356 CE: On this day Constantius II ordered the removal of
    statues and the closing of the temples.

    "Images, if any even now still stand in temples and shrines, which
    have received or do receive any worship of pagans, shall be torn from
    their foundationsÂ… Altars in all places shall be destroyed and all
    temples within our holdings shall be dedicated to public use. The
    proprietors shall be forced to destroy them." ~ Codex Theodosianus
    16.10.19


    Our thought for today comes from Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Natura
    Deorum 2.57:

    "Now Zeno gives this definition of nature: nature (he says) is a
    craftsman like fire, proceeding methodically to the work of
    generation. For he holds that the special function of an art or craft
    is to create or generate, and that what in the processes of our arts
    is done by the hand is done with far more skilful craftsmanship by
    nature, that is, as I said, by that 'craftsman like' fire which is
    the teacher of the other arts."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61547 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equito Catoni salutem dicit

    The two are distinct now, but this distinction wasn't so clear in the very early Church.  It used to be scholars claimed that Paul was the time of a clear distinction between the two communities; however, this is no longer accepted as being true.  It was even as late as St. John Chrysostom that he was critical of "Judaizing Christians."  Historically, the situation is not as clear as you would make it seem.  If a sodalitas is simply an attempt to glorify the early Church in some romantic light then it serves no usefullness to Nova Roma.  If it is about genuine scholarship then it can. 

    Right now I'm inundated in source material on early Jewish identity, taking a course right now in Expressions of Jewish Identity within 2nd Temple Judaism.  I can provide an extensive reading list on the interface of the Jewish community in the Greco-Roman world.  Understanding this enviroment greatly helps an understanding of New Testament studies and the development of the early Church.

    Vale:

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

    Cato Cn. Cornelio Lentulo K. Fabio Buteoni Modianusque SPD

    Salvete.

    Thank you, Cornelius Lentulus. I shall begin work on it post haste.

    Fabius Modianus, while I do appreciate the reasoning behind such a suggestion - from an
    *ancient* Roman perspective - I must make very clear that the two *are* quite distinct and
    separate entities and should be treated as such. They are theologically *fundamentally*
    incompatible, and treating them as the same would be...complicated. Entia non sunt
    multiplicanda praeter necessitatem :)

    Valete,

    Cato




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61548 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Salvete:

    I would agree with this interpretation of law.

    Valete:

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:17 AM, M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:

    The Lex Cassia de creatione sodalitatum (Nova Roma) says:

    II. The above clause is also binding to all Religious groups,
    organizations and associations involving Nova Roma Citizens, with the
    exception that they may only apply to and be approved by the Collegium
    Pontificum.

    This Lex Cassia is talking specifically about sodalitates, so it seems
    that the application would be to the CP, not the Senate, depending on
    how "Religious groups, organizations and associations" is interpreted.
    If "religious" is taken to mean "manifesting devotion to a particular
    religion" then this group (as the purpose is not worship) would apply
    to the Senate. If "religious" is taken to mean "pertaining to or
    concerned with religion or religions" then this Lex Cassia would hand
    control to the CP. Use of the terms "groups, organizations and
    associations" suggests that the broader meaning is to be understood,
    that is, it would place the decision about this group in the hands of
    the CP.

    Our page on sodalitates says "Per the Lex Cassia de creatione
    sodalitatum, any group of citizens may petition the Senate to create a
    sodalitas. The group should form itself informally and operate for six
    months. After that the Senate will consider recognizing it." That six
    months should be plenty of time to decide which is the correct body to
    apply to.

    MLA




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61549 From: Quintus Fabius Labeo Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Caelius Ahenobarbus
    <cn.caelius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Maybe that should change. Maybe some things must require travel.
    For an example, the Senate could be required to meet yearly (or every
    other year; regularly), in-person. Or every magistrate should be
    required to attend at least one regional conventus every year. Nova
    Roma could help offset some of the costs, if possible.
    >



    Labeo Ahenobarbo omnibusque sal.

    If this requirement were to be instituted, civis with jobs with
    inflexible schedules and inflexible vacation time could be prohibited
    from ever serving the res publica in a senatorial or magisterial
    capacity.

    Valete
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61550 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Beef vs Pork
    Salve,
    Of course, if one is an initiate of the Mysteries of Mithras, one gets steak for communion.
    I bet if archaeaologists dig a little deeper, they'd find a Roman Steakhouse next to each Mithraeum.
     
    "Salve, what is the special today?"
     
    "Today's special is the Sol Invictus ribeye. We also have a new item. The centurion sirloin. It is almost 2 inches thick at 25 oz. It comes with Caesar salad."
     
    "Can I get that without caligula; I don't like caligula in my salad."
     
    "Of course, how would you like your steak?"
     
    "Rare."
     
    "Would you want the nero sear."
     
    "No, just bloody."
     
    "Beef: its whats for communion".
     
    Vale,
    A. Sempronius Regulus


    --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

    From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@yahoo..fr>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Beef vs Pork
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 5:21 AM

    Ave!

    > "Pork is fine but swine is divine." Henry II

    "Dans le cochon tout est bon." French advertising.

    Vale.

    C. Petronius Dexter


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61551 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

    Salve.

    We are living *now*, not in First Century Rome.

    We must agree to start with a foundation, and if the very first remark is a debate over
    whether Christians and Jews are the same or not, it bodes very ill. I set out a number of
    suggested basic definitions of several terms on the NR Christians List. Please take a look at
    it. If fundamental terms are not agreed upon, there is no point in even trying to begin
    discussion; we would be talking constantly at cross-purposes, in the same vein that we do
    so now to a great extent.

    Vale bene,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61552 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato Lucretio Agricolae sal.

    Salve, Agricole.

    I agree.

    Vale bene,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola" <marcus.lucretius@...>
    wrote:
    >
    > The Lex Cassia de creatione sodalitatum (Nova Roma) says:
    >
    > II. The above clause is also binding to all Religious groups,
    > organizations and associations involving Nova Roma Citizens, with the
    > exception that they may only apply to and be approved by the Collegium
    > Pontificum.
    >
    >
    > This Lex Cassia is talking specifically about sodalitates, so it seems
    > that the application would be to the CP, not the Senate, depending on
    > how "Religious groups, organizations and associations" is interpreted.
    > If "religious" is taken to mean "manifesting devotion to a particular
    > religion" then this group (as the purpose is not worship) would apply
    > to the Senate. If "religious" is taken to mean "pertaining to or
    > concerned with religion or religions" then this Lex Cassia would hand
    > control to the CP. Use of the terms "groups, organizations and
    > associations" suggests that the broader meaning is to be understood,
    > that is, it would place the decision about this group in the hands of
    > the CP.
    >
    > Our page on sodalitates says "Per the Lex Cassia de creatione
    > sodalitatum, any group of citizens may petition the Senate to create a
    > sodalitas. The group should form itself informally and operate for six
    > months. After that the Senate will consider recognizing it." That six
    > months should be plenty of time to decide which is the correct body to
    > apply to.
    >
    >
    > MLA
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61553 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

    Then that asks a question is this sodalitas designed for practicing Christians?  A framework in which to worship God in the modern world, OR is it a sodalitas interested in research/study of Christianity in the Greco-Roman world?  If it a sodalitas focused on the Greco-Roman world then it cannot fully divorce itself from the Jewish tradition.  IF it is to be an "ecclesia" for modern believing Christians then I'm not sure Nova Roma is the right avenue for that -- join a church.

    Vale;

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

    Cato K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

    Salve.

    We are living *now*, not in First Century Rome.

    We must agree to start with a foundation, and if the very first remark is a debate over
    whether Christians and Jews are the same or not, it bodes very ill. I set out a number of
    suggested basic definitions of several terms on the NR Christians List. Please take a look at
    it. If fundamental terms are not agreed upon, there is no point in even trying to begin
    discussion; we would be talking constantly at cross-purposes, in the same vein that we do
    so now to a great extent.

    Vale bene,

    Cato




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61554 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

    Salve.

    Is then the purpose of this sodalitas to simply ignore the self-identification of Christianity
    by the Seven Ecumenical Councils? If so, why use the name "Christian" at all? Why not just
    make a separate sodalitas for the study of *all* First Century religious developments - a
    Sodalitas Religiana in tempore Romanorum?

    Vale bene,

    Cato


    In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
    >
    > Then that asks a question is this sodalitas designed for practicing
    > Christians? A framework in which to worship God in the modern world, OR is
    > it a sodalitas interested in research/study of Christianity in the
    > Greco-Roman world? If it a sodalitas focused on the Greco-Roman world then
    > it cannot fully divorce itself from the Jewish tradition. IF it is to be an
    > "ecclesia" for modern believing Christians then I'm not sure Nova Roma is
    > the right avenue for that -- join a church.
    >
    > Vale;
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61555 From: David Kling Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

    So any sodalitas that deals with Christianity has to subscribe to your standards of what is Christian?  I wasn't aware that the Ecumenical Councils were convened during the Greco-Roman period.

    Knowledge of the Greco-Roman period... isn't that what Nova Roma is about?  Or is it about promoting your vision of Christianity?

    Vale;

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

    Cato K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.

    Salve.

    Is then the purpose of this sodalitas to simply ignore the self-identification of Christianity
    by the Seven Ecumenical Councils? If so, why use the name "Christian" at all? Why not just
    make a separate sodalitas for the study of *all* First Century religious developments - a
    Sodalitas Religiana in tempore Romanorum?

    Vale bene,

    Cato

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61556 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: Curious non-member with some questions.
    Domina,

    If you have never been in the SCA, then you should go to some of the Roman themed events.  You might discover that the SCA Romans possess just as much Romanitas as any of our Novaromans.  I am surprised though that you would take the opinion of another when I know how much you embrace discovering new things on your own.

    Aureliane


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 5:39 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Curious non-member with some questions.

    Salve,

    Except in Nova Roma, roman ideals and values are apart of our lives and for many of us the religion is apart of our belief too, and none of us have to dress up in a particularly historical fashion for any events.

    In the SCA, going on what was explained to me by a friend who is in it, is that you take on a persona. In NR the only persona I have is the one I am. That's a big difference, imo.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@ aol.com wrote:
    Aurelianus Marcella et Rich sal.

    The SCA was originally made up of fantasy, history, and speculative thought back in the 60s.  However, it has evolved to the point that many of the leading medieval and Renaissance scholars of the day started with the SCA.  I would hardly call it exclusively a role-playing organization anymore than I would call Nova Roma a role-playing organization.  The principal difference that I see between the SCA and NR is that the SCA was founded before the Internet and had to become an organization in which travelling to participate was a requirement.  NR is a mostly internet organization in which the majority of those who travel to participate started in groups like the SCA (like me and many members of my province) or military re-enactment units (like Legio V).  Most of the membership of Nova Roma could use a little more of the enthusiasm and social interaction of the SCA.

    Rich - I am sorry that you live so far away from America Austrorientalis.  Our province has had two major and a number of local events plus we participated in a major museum-reenactment event in Mobile in 2006.  Perhaps you could get involved with Nova Roma and help some of our members learn a little more about the joys of social interaction.

    Valete.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Annia Minucia Marcella <annia@ciarin. com>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:44 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Curious non-member with some questions.

    Salve,

    Except you referenced the SCA(a lot) which is most definitely a role-playing organization.


    I'll thank you not to compare us to renfaire characters like Lord Seamus of the Kingdom of Caid.
    Vale
    - Annia Minucia Marcella
    
    http://minucia. ciarin.com


    Rich wrote:
    On Sun, 2009-02-08 at 05:04 +0000, t.ovidius_aquila wrote:

    You're the second person to assign the words "role-play" or "RPG" to
    me, when I never used them.

    I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. :-)

    Best,
    Rich...


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 61557 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-02-19
    Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Sodalitas Christianorum
    Cato omnibus SPD

    Salvete.

    Four (Nicaea, Constantinople, Ephesus, and Chalcedon) of the Seven were held before AD
    476, the traditional "fall" of the Western Roman Empire, and one (Nicaea - perhaps the
    most important vis-a-vis this conversation) within the scope of time that this Respublica
    calls its own.

    So yes, I would consider them as being within the "Roman" period.

    If one considers the historical fact of the Eastern Empire considering itself absolutely
    Roman as well, they *all* fall under the "Roman" period.

    Vale,

    Cato


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
    >
    > So any sodalitas that deals with Christianity has to subscribe to your
    > standards of what is Christian? I wasn't aware that the Ecumenical Councils
    > were convened during the Greco-Roman period.
    >
    > Knowledge of the Greco-Roman period... isn't that what Nova Roma is about?
    > Or is it about promoting your vision of Christianity?
    >
    > Vale;
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus