Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Apl 19-20, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63482 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63483 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63484 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: a.d. XIII Kal. Mai.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63485 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Censorship?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63486 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63487 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63488 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: CHRISTOS ANESTI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63490 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63491 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63492 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63493 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63494 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63495 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63496 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: [SenatusRomanus] Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63497 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63498 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63499 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63500 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: FREE NR WEEKEND: THE XXth FLORALIA: To be announced on provincial li
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63501 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63502 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63504 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Parilia Tomorrow! Happy 2762nd Birthday to Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63505 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Parilia: The Day After Tomorrow
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63506 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63507 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63508 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63509 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63510 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: File - language.txt
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63511 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63512 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO - name corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63513 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63514 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Yesterday's Venator...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63515 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: CHRISTOS ANESTI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63516 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Censorship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63517 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Thoughts of a Tribune
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63518 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63519 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63520 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: FREE NR WEEKEND: THE XXth FLORALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63521 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Moderation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63522 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Removal of moderation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63523 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63524 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63525 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: The Rule of Law
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63526 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63527 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63528 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63529 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63530 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63531 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63532 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63533 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63534 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63535 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration (long post)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63536 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Censorship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63537 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration (long post)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63538 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63539 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63540 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63541 From: Jennifer Harris Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63542 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63543 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63544 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63545 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63546 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63547 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Keith Sterne's resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63548 From: Priscilla Queen of the Desert Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Longevity in Nova Roma. . .
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63550 From: C. Stricklin Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63551 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63552 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63553 From: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: NovaRomaBookClub
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63554 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63555 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63556 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63557 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63558 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63559 From: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63560 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Correction to link on Website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63561 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63562 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63563 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63564 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63565 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63566 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63567 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63568 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63569 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63570 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63571 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63572 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63573 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63574 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63575 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63576 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63577 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63578 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63579 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63580 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63581 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63582 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63583 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63584 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63585 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63586 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63587 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio (?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63588 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63589 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63590 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63591 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63592 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63593 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63594 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63595 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63596 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63597 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63598 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63599 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63600 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: A few words more. . .
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63601 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63602 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63603 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63604 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63605 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63606 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63607 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63608 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63609 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63610 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63611 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63612 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63613 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63614 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: What will you do with the ball ?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63615 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63616 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63617 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63618 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: What will you do with the ball ?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63619 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63620 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: What will you do with the ball ?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63621 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63622 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63623 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63624 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63625 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63626 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63627 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63628 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: M Annia's birthday feast
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63629 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Enough is Enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63630 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Enough is Enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63631 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63632 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Enough is Enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63633 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63634 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63635 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Enough is Enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63636 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: the Birth Day of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63637 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63638 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63639 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: My conversation with Censor Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63640 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63641 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63642 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63643 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63644 From: enodia2002 Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63645 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63646 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63647 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Blood, guts and the fall of Rome!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63648 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63649 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63650 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63651 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63652 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63653 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63654 From: Colin Brodd Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63655 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63656 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: a.d. XII Kal. Mai.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63657 From: Nida Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: the Birth Day of Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63658 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: I. OF ROMULUS AND REMUS by LENA DALKEITH
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63659 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63482 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
LOL. Putting us on moderation then constitutes an act. Therefore you are in direct violation of your own religious observance!

Why can't you remove people from moderated status? What did I or Q. Fabius or anyone else do to deserve it?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Catoni sen. omnibusque s.d.
>
> Sorry for the silence. Normally the praetura is closed today: this is a "nefastus publicus" day, for everybody (see our calendar pls).
>
> I will be at your disposal tomorrow.
>
> Have a good day, and you all.
>
> Vale,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> praetor
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > If the post I directed at the praetor Albucius is not returned to this list within the next 30 minutes, I will begin proceedings to have officers of this corporation removed in accordance with the governing act of this corporation.
> >
> > If I am not removed from moderation in accordance with the Constitution of the res publica within the next 10 minutes, I will begin proceedings to have officers of this corporation removed in accordance with the governing act of this corporation.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63483 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Utter, utter, nonsense.

Publius Memmius Albucius wrote:
> Catoni sen. omnibusque s.d.
>
> Sorry for the silence. Normally the praetura is closed today: this is a "nefastus publicus" day, for everybody (see our calendar pls).
>
> I will be at your disposal tomorrow.
>
> Have a good day, and you all.
>
> Vale,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> praetor
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
>> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>>
>> Salvete.
>>
>> If the post I directed at the praetor Albucius is not returned to this list within the next 30 minutes, I will begin proceedings to have officers of this corporation removed in accordance with the governing act of this corporation.
>>
>> If I am not removed from moderation in accordance with the Constitution of the res publica within the next 10 minutes, I will begin proceedings to have officers of this corporation removed in accordance with the governing act of this corporation.
>>
>> Valete,
>>
>> Cato
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63484 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: a.d. XIII Kal. Mai.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIII Kalendas Maius; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"When the third dawn from the vanishing of the Hyades
Breaks, the horses will be in their stalls in the Circus.
So I must explain why foxes are loosed then,
Carrying torches fastened to scorched backs.
The land round Carseoli's cold, not suited for growing
Olives, but the soil there's appropriate for corn.
I passed it on the way to my native Pelignian country,
A small region, yet always supplied by constant streams.
There I entered, as usual, the house of my former host:
Phoebus had already unyoked his weary horses.
My host used to tell me of many things, including this,
As a preparation for my present work:
`In that plain,' he said (pointing at the plain),
A thrifty peasant woman and her sturdy husband had a small
Plot, he tilled the land himself, whether it needed ploughing,
Or required the curving sickle or the hoe.
They would sweep the cottage, set on timber piles,
She'd set eggs to hatch under the mother hen's feathers,
Or collect green mallows or gather white mushrooms,
Or warm the humble hearth with welcome fire,
And still worked her hands assiduously at the loom,
To provision them against the threat of winter cold.
She had a son: he was a playful child,
Who was already twelve years old.
In a valley, he caught, in the depths of a willow copse,
A vixen, who'd stolen many birds from the yard.
He wrapped his captive in straw and hay, and set fire
To it all: she fled the hands that were out to burn her:
In fleeing she set the crops, that covered the fields, ablaze:
And a breeze lent strength to the devouring flames.
The thing's forgotten, but a relic remains: since now
There's a certain law of Carseoli, that bans foxes:
And they burn a fox at the Cerialia to punish the species,
destroyed in the same way as it destroyed the crops." - Ovid, Fasti IV

"Tandem statuere circensium ludorum die, qui Cereri celebratur,
exsequi destinata, quia Caesar rarus egressu domoque aut hortis
clausus ad ludicra circi ventitabat promptioresque aditus erant
laetitia spectaculi." - Tacitus, Annals XV.53

Today is the celebration of the Cerealia, in honor of Ceres, the Roman
goddess of agriculture. She represented the earth-mother in connection
to the growth of crops, and cereal grains in particular. She was
looked upon by the Romans much in the same light as Tellus, the
goddess of the earth. Like many other festivals originally celebrated
for only one day, the Cerealia was extended over an entire week and
made to embrace the ancient festival of the Fordicidia (April 15),
when a sacrifice of unborn calves was made to Tellus.

Ceres was the daughter of Saturn and Ops, sister of Iuppiter and
Pluto, and mother of Proserpina. She is the equivalent of the goddess
Demeter in Greek mythology. Her cult is said to have been received
from Sicily by the Romans in 496 BC during a devastating famine, when
the Sibylline oracles advised the adoption of the Greek goddess and
her daughter Kore.

As the foreign Megalesia honoring Cybele was especially appropriated
by the nobles, so the festival of the Roman goddess of agriculture
belonged peculiarly to the plebeians, who dominated the corn trade.
Little is known about the rituals of her worship, but one of the few
customs which has been recorded was the peculiar practice of tying
lighted brands to the tails of foxes which were then let loose in the
Circus Maximus. The wanderings of Ceres in search of her lost daughter
Proserpina were represented by women, clothed in white, running about
with lighted torches.

The temple of Ceres in Rome was situated on the Aventine hill, and a
flamen Cerealis assisted in her worship. Her cult acquired
considerable political importance at Rome. The decrees of the Senate
were deposited in her temple for the inspection of the tribunes of the
people, and the property of traitors against the republic was often
consigned to her temple.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63485 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Censorship?
Salvete,

I have noticed that two new senators are censored on here: Q. Fabius Maximus and C. Equitius Cato. I would like an explanation for this.

Valete,

Gualterus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63486 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Salve Sulla,

I am here and can go on the record to say that I fully agree with
everything in Maior's post with one exception. Sulla (you) has
contacted me, numerous times (maybe 15 or 20?). So I apologize to
Maior if anything that I said caused her to think that he (you) have
never emailed me directly.

Vale

Equestria



On Apr 18, 2009, at 1:54 PM, Robert Woolwine wrote:
> Where is Iunia to speak for herself? I want to her her go on the
> record?
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd
> > I've spoken with our Cheif Financial Officer Equestria Laeca, who
> > is a professional financial analyst and accountant.
> >
> > She told me that last year 2008, to get Nova Roma's affairs in
> order she
> > spoke with all the necessary state and federal agencies that
> govern non-profits to ensure that
> > EVERY single filing of Nova Roma was proper, what liablitity there
> might be from from previous years and also
> > to determine what we need to file in the future when we grow.
> >
> > Equestria devoted hours of her free time to ensure Nova Roma's
> > upstanding status as a non-profit. Feel free to ask her if this is
> so. I certainly did.
> >
> > She told me Gn. Iulius Caesar, Sulla, nor Cato never contacted her.
> >
> >
> > So Quirites, this 'uproar' is manufactured, Nova Roma is totally
> compliant with all state and federal laws that govern non-profits.
> >
> > I am sorry such aggravation was caused when a simple letter to
> Equestria would have answered all questions.
> >
> > I am thankful that last years consuls M. Moravius Piscinus and
> Iulius Sabinus, secured such an excellent ethical person Equestria
> Laeca to protect Nova Roma and the monies of its citizens.
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > M. Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63487 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Salve Cato

Yes, you and Caesar, Sulla, Paulinus, et al. have been in an email
exchange with me for the past 24 hours. But I would like to point out
that my discussion with Maior was prior to when I first entered into
the conversations with the four of you. The Sulla point was a simple
misunderstanding. So she is not at all lying, but being perfectly
truthful.

Why, Cato, would you so quickly and so automatically defame another
senator (and board member) before first giving them the benefit of the
doubt? Misunderstandings happen all the time especially via email.
You and I had one today. Should I have started shouting "lies"
instead of just asking for a clarification?

Please remember your standing in this organization. You have a duty
to maintain the public trust. Flailing insults is not the best way
of meeting that expectation.

Vale

Equestria


On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Cato Maiori sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> More ouright lies, Maior. You know, if you lie it doesn't make the
> Bad Thing go away.
>
> I and Caesar and Sulla and Paulinus and I forget who else have been
> in contact via private email, contact which is ongoing as we speak.
>
> Equestria Laeca is a financial analyst, not an accountant. You will
> no doubt attempt to turn this into an attack on her, but you can
> take that out of your little mind right now.
>
> Nova Roma is *not* in compliance with the law.
>
> Frankly, you are a serious danger legally to the res publica right
> now, as was made abundantly clear yesterday with your manic babbling
> about ancient Roman law and our "right" to violate the law as we saw
> fit.
>
> You are quick to boast, eager to demand everyone's qualifications to
> take a poop, and yet refuse to provide your own credentials. How's
> about it? Where's your law degree from? When did you pass the bar?
> Where are you currently practicing and what type of law is it?
>
> And even if - by some delightfully perverse sense of reality's humor
> - you actually *are* in possession of a degree in law, you *still*
> have no clue what you are talking about.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63488 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
CHRISTOS ANESTI!

Cato Equestriae sal.

Salve.

Because, Equestria, Maior lies, misrepresents, and obfuscates without compunction and without a second thought if she believes that anyone out there might possibly buy into her nonsense. This whole sham about the dies nefastus publicus is just another example, and she shows that she does not even shrink from pulling the Gods Themselves into her lies.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: CHRISTOS ANESTI
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete!

To all of our citizens who celebrate this day as the Feast of The Resurrection of Christ, I wish you all the joy of this most holy day.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63490 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Cato Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve, praetor.

A day off.

Yet... someone in your praetura deleted a post I made *after* it had been posted here in the Forum and *then* put me on moderation in a blatant violation of the laws of the res publica.

Albucius, I am willing to believe that you yourself personally did not do this, but you are responsible for the actions of your cohors. This was an outrageous and utterly inexcusable abuse of the power given to whomever did this.

I stand by my call. Tribunes, I wait your response.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63491 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Day off - nefastus publicus
Cato Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve, praetor.

A day off. Because it's a dies nefastus publicus, when you "normally" have the day off.

yet...

_____________________________________________________________________

Re: Threats of physical harm?

Salve Aventina !

The praetura has carefully checked Aquilius' messages, and what it could understand of them, and considered that Rota could go on improving his communication, especially on the matter and etiquette (on capitals, for ex.), for a better contribution to our debates wherein, in the current times, some of us happen to forget, unfortunately, the minimal respect due to the people who are towards them, in the Forum.

Vale Aventina and enjoy this sunny Monday,

P. Memmius Albucius
praetor

______________________________________________________________________

The above was posted - officially, as praetor - on Idibus Ianuariis (13 January) - a dies nefastus publicus. A day you have off...normally. A look at the dies nefasti publici over the course of the past five months show no sign of any observance of their religious significance. Not a single one observed by the praetura.

Until, amazingly enough, today.

I'm sorry, Albucius. It just doesn't work this way.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63492 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
I could really cry.

Laenas is a great person and quite an even tempered guy. Once again all of
the arguing has driven a good person away. We lost a good one today people.
And as usual, I don't really think too many people care.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaius Popillius" <gaiuspopillius@...>
To: "SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups. com" <SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com>;
<Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:43 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation


> Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
> I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
> I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova
> Roma, Inc.
> I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter,
> Alexandra Popillia.
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63493 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Salvete omnes!


I care, and I also could cry seeing Laenas as he leaves Nova Roma. He was a friend.

This is the saddest thing in this year so far in Nova Roma.

This is because of people who think politics, laws and arguments are more important than the spirit: the friendships, the individual souls.

This is what anybody wanted?

Angry people! Do you want to kill Nova Roma?

What do you love *more*? Your anger or your republic? The legal nuances or the people for whom the laws exist?

I BEG you guys both as a Pontiff of Nova Roma and as Priest of Concord: stop this right now. This is the limit, the moral limit where somebody is still a Nova Roman and a Fellow Citizen, but if takes one more step, ceases to be an honorable man for our Roman community.

We all are here because we love Rome, the Roman values and the idea of a New Rome. We are a community of people from all over the world who wants the same thing: a "New Rome", a "new renaissance" - of classical values, arts, philosophy, culture and religion.

But now, some ignore our wonderful common dream and focus on what divides us instead of focusing on what unites us into a Spiritual Nation. They do this, and they kill Nova Roma.

This is the time for a dictator. A balanced, peaceful person a hard working citizen whom all trust. A consular who will create peace for Nova Roma.

We have some who could do this job and whom I would support.

CITIZENS!

SAVE NOVA ROMA!

CONCORDIA!

SAVE NOVA ROMA!


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Pontifex
Sacerdos Concordiae


--- Dom 19/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> ha scritto:
Da: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Domenica 19 Aprile 2009, 12:00

I could really cry.

Laenas is a great person and quite an even tempered guy. Once again all of
the arguing has driven a good person away. We lost a good one today people.
And as usual, I don't really think too many people care.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaius Popillius" <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
To: "SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com" <SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com>;
<Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:43 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation

> Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
> I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
> I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova
> Roma, Inc.
> I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter,
> Alexandra Popillia.
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63494 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
On 4/19/09, Gaius Popillius <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:


Salvete Senatores et Quirites,

 

I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.


This is really, really sad. Why do all the good people leave. Leanas will be much missed.

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63495 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Salvete Quirites and salve Diana!

Just so everybody know. I care a lot that Laenas have left. I just didn't think it would be possible to get him to change and mail here seems to most for show, also this mail.

But my relatio to Laeas isn't for show and I told him that I would misss him a few hours ago. I hae tried to get him to stay for days, but this terrible situation was too much for him. I will miss him and the climate of reason that he and others who have left tried to conserve.

**************

19 apr 2009 kl. 03.43 skrev Gaius Popillius:

Salvete Senatores et Quirites,

 

I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.

 

I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova Roma, Inc.

 

I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter, Alexandra Popillia.

 

Valete,

 

Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne




*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae 
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae 





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63496 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: [SenatusRomanus] Resignation
Salvete Conscript Fathers et al
 
Today is a very sad day for Nova Roma.

 
We have lost one our best and we all share the responsibility for this turn of events. Gaius Popillius Laenas was my friend, colleague, and boss. I have had the honor of serving as his Quaestor when he was Consul, as his Colleague as Censor and best of all I had the honor of being his friend. I will miss his counsel very much. I will miss him very much.

Valete
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Censor
 



To: SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: gaiuspopillius@...
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:43:24 -0500
Subject: [SenatusRomanus] Resignation




Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
 
I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
 
I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova Roma, Inc.
 
I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter, Alexandra Popillia.
 
Valete,
 
Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63497 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Equestria Catoni sal.

On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Nova Roma is *not* in compliance with the law.
>

Enough with these alarming statements! What are you even talking
about?? All companies have minor legal issues with wording and other
legalities. This is why corporate attorneys and compliance officers
exist! And compliance audits! They happen every single day and I
have conducted MANY of them. It is called the real world.

We ARE in compliance with the law!! Nova Roma is financially and
legally in EXCELLENT health!!!

Stop these games NOW!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63498 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Equestria Catoni sal.

Why on earth would you say this?

"Equestria Laeca is a financial analyst, not an accountant."

Explain how you can become a financial analyst without experience in
finance? I have two decades of experience in audit and accounting, a
degree in accounting, and volunteer as a CFO for this nonprofit.

What is your definition of an accountant? Why are you playing these
games as you have already been told the above in the Senate?

And just for the record, what exactly is your day job?????


Vale

Equestria




On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Equestria Laeca is a financial analyst, not an accountant. You will
> no doubt attempt to turn this into an attack on her, but you can
> take that out of your little mind right now.
>
> Nova Roma is *not* in compliance with the law.
>
> Frankly, you are a serious danger legally to the res publica right
> now, as was made abundantly clear yesterday with your manic babbling
> about ancient Roman law and our "right" to violate the law as we saw
> fit.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63499 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Every citizen owes Eq. Iunia Laeca a debt of gratitude for all of the hard work that she has contributed starting with last year. Owing to her work as CFO, we have a level of transparency and compliance that we never had before. She played a big part in professionalizing our practices, a move that started last year under consuls Piscinus and Sabinus and that continues now.

MLA


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Equestria Catoni sal.
>
> On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> > Nova Roma is *not* in compliance with the law.
> >
>
> Enough with these alarming statements! What are you even talking
> about?? All companies have minor legal issues with wording and other
> legalities. This is why corporate attorneys and compliance officers
> exist! And compliance audits! They happen every single day and I
> have conducted MANY of them. It is called the real world.
>
> We ARE in compliance with the law!! Nova Roma is financially and
> legally in EXCELLENT health!!!
>
> Stop these games NOW!!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63500 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: FREE NR WEEKEND: THE XXth FLORALIA: To be announced on provincial li
Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quiritibus s. p. d.


Quirites, my fellow citizens!

I repeat my previous announcement: an invitation to an all free Nova Roman weekend (with free accommodation and mea) in my Province Pannonia.

THE XXth FLORALIA CARNIVAL IN AQUINCUM (Hungary)

Last year, the Nova Roman province of Pannonia participated and organized the most important parts of the 19th Floralia Carnival at the ruins of the Roman Aquincum (Budapest, Hungary), organized the Museum of Aquincum:

http://www.aquincum.hu/

Photos from the XIXth Floralia with Nova Roma:

http://tinyurl.com/cnjkxk

More photos:

http://gladius.org.hu/galeria/index.php?d=floralia&pi=60

http://gladius.org.hu/galeria/index.php?d=eskuvo

We received good credits so that this year Nova Roma has got a request from the Museum of Aquincum to take part in organizing the 20th Floralia Carnival, on 23-24th May.

PROGRAMS (MAY 23-24th, Budapest)

If you are interested, please write me to the e-mail address, and we will talk about how to travel, and all the details:

cn_corn_lent@...

Programs include legionary demonstrations, Roman juridical show and trial, religious celebrations in honour of Nova Roma and the 2000th anniversary of the occupation of Pannonia by the Roman Empire, a great Roman religious ceremony and sacrifice with solemn processions between the ruins of Aquincum with all participants, three reenactor legions and civilians in Roman costume, a Mithraic ritual, gladiatorial combats, Roman market and other nice and funny shows and celebrations. You will get civilian Roman clothes to wear during the events and you can try all military equipments and accessories.

INVITATION

Pannonia Provincia of Nova Roma is glad to invite citizens of Nova Roma all over the world to visit this event and take part in the programs of Nova Roma, all for free!

ALL FREE !!!

Any Nova Roman citizen who comes to the Floralia Carnival will be guests of Pannonia Provincia, and will get free accommodation, free meal and free entrance to the territory of the ruins of Aquincum and to the Museum, and free entrance all to the Floralia Carnival programs.

All you would have to pay for is the traveling.

Two citizens announced their intention to come, but we are waiting for you, citizens. It's gonna be a a great time for Nova Romans!

I would be very honoured to welcome any citizen, especially our magistrates, priests and senators in my province as guests of Pannonia
Provincia and my Pannonian fellow-citizens.

Curate, ut valeatis, Quirites!


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Legatus pro praetore Pannoniae
Pontifex etc.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63501 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Cato Equestriae Lunicae sal.

Salve.

My apologies, Equestria. You are, indeed, an accountant.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63502 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Cato Equestriae Lunicae sal.

Salve.

The Magna Mater Project is not the only thing happening here, Equestria. The corporation is in violation of the law on other issues - and here I would say "as well" because I think Caesar has shown pretty clearly where we stand regarding the wire fraud issue.

Remember that breaking Nova Roman law is breaking the law. There has been plenty of that around. The Magna Mater Project is imply one piece of a large puzzle.

So that's why I say this.

Nova Roma is *not* in compliance with the law.

If you are alarmed, I thank the Gods. You *should* be alarmed.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63504 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Parilia Tomorrow! Happy 2762nd Birthday to Rome!
Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus sal.


Tomorrow there will be the 2762nd Parilia, Birthday of Rome. I will conduct a sacrifice for the Republic of Nova Roma, for Peace and Cooperation.

Please focus on what connects us, New Romans.

Please remember why we are here, in Nova Roma.

Join in spirit to the Nova Romans in Italy, who are just celebrating this glorious day, and accept all Nova Romans into your hearts.

We all are friends, we all have one common goal!


Happy Parilia! Long Live Nova Roma!

Curate, ut res publica valeat!

CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS
PONTIFEX

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63505 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Parilia: The Day After Tomorrow
Salvete!

Sorry for the mistake, Parilia is the day after tomorrow, 21 April! (I thought today is actually the 20th.)

;)

Cn. Lentulus, pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63506 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C

Salvete

 

FYI

 

As of today  we have 106 Nova Roman taxpayers. This is less than half of what we usually have. 

There are sill 11 days left before the deadline to pay, on time, for this year.

 

Valete

 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63507 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
> I care, and I also could cry seeing Laenas as he leaves Nova Roma. He was a friend.
>
> This is the saddest thing in this year so far in Nova Roma.

Laenas has always been one of the most dignified and honourable members of the Senate.

Years ago, when he and I were generally allied with opposite factions (though not official
members of each), he was always polite and reaonable to his opponents.

When I quit the Senate, one year ago, he was one of only two Senators to write to me and
wish me well (the others, whom I'd worked beside for nearly ten years, were indifferent).

Now, a decent and morally upright member has walked away. He didn't say why; perhaps he's
tired of associating with people so corrupt and contemptible. Perhaps he fears for his
legal exposure as an unwilling participant in an act of fraud. Perhaps he's just realized
he devoted thousands of hours of work to an organization that has no chance whatsoever
of ever being taken seriously by anyone.

Whatever the reason, NR has just chased away one of the best people it's ever had.

And who remains? Petty thugs and bureaucrats.

Nova Roma is now in the hands of a faction that will preemptively and illegally place their
political opponents under list moderation, for no cause, in secret; and who, when called
out on their actions, announce that they won't fix it because they are taking the day
off (even though the same praetores have worked on other dies nefasti publici in the
past).

This message was posted at 09:35 US/Central time. Let's see when it shows up.

M. Octavius Gracchus
once consul
twice censor

>
> This is because of people who think politics, laws and arguments are more important than the spirit: the friendships, the individual souls.
>
> This is what anybody wanted?
>
> Angry people! Do you want to kill Nova Roma?
>
> What do you love *more*? Your anger or your republic? The legal nuances or the people for whom the laws exist?
>
>
> I BEG you guys both as a Pontiff of Nova Roma and as Priest of Concord:
> stop this right now. This is the limit, the moral limit where somebody
> is still a Nova Roman and a Fellow Citizen, but if takes one more step,
> ceases to be an honorable man for our Roman community.
>
> We all are here because we love Rome, the Roman values and the idea of a New Rome. We are a community of people from all over the world who wants the same thing: a "New Rome", a "new renaissance" - of classical values, arts, philosophy, culture and religion.
>
> But now, some ignore our wonderful common dream and focus on what divides us instead of focusing on what unites us into a Spiritual Nation. They do this, and they kill Nova Roma.
>
> This is the time for a dictator. A balanced, peaceful person a hard working citizen whom all trust. A consular who will create peace for Nova Roma.
>
> We have some who could do this job and whom I would support.
>
> CITIZENS!
>
> SAVE NOVA ROMA!
>
> CONCORDIA!
>
> SAVE NOVA ROMA!
>
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> Pontifex
> Sacerdos Concordiae
>
>
> --- Dom 19/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Domenica 19 Aprile 2009, 12:00
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I could really cry.
>
>
>
> Laenas is a great person and quite an even tempered guy. Once again all of
>
> the arguing has driven a good person away. We lost a good one today people.
>
> And as usual, I don't really think too many people care.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Gaius Popillius" <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
>
> To: "SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com" <SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com>;
>
> <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:43 AM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
>
>
>
>> Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
>
>> I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
>
>> I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova
>
>> Roma, Inc.
>
>> I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter,
>
>> Alexandra Popillia.
>
>> Valete,
>
>> Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63508 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
> Every citizen owes Eq. Iunia Laeca a debt of gratitude for all of the hard work
> that she has contributed starting with last year.

Yes. I've been in contact with her throughout much of the year, regarding hosting and
domain transactions, and she has always acted professionally, and has been a pleasure
to work with.

Equestria Iunia is not one of the bad guys.


--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63509 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Ex officio praetorum:

The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.
Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome. All users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to the Nova Roma mailing list. Violations of these rules will result in corrective action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction of posting privileges for citizens.


---

I. Language

Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.



All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as whatever vernacular languages are relevant.



---


II. Topics of discussion

Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and other state activities

The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and philosophy of Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece, the ancient Near East, and other cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.

Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this kind must be clearly marked as �off topic�.



---

III. Civil Discourse

All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will follow these rules of civil discourse:

Show respect for others.

Recognize a person�s right to advocate ideas that are different from your own.

Discuss policies and ideas without attacking people.

Use helpful, not hurtful language.

Write as you would like to be written to.

Restate ideas when asked.

Write in good faith.

Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.

Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.

When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.

Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may be different.

Recognize that people can agree to disagree.

Speak and write for yourself, not others.



---

IV. Forbidden

The following are forbidden:

Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)

References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly within the context of a historical discussion, with citations given, unless the material is a matter of common knowledge

Links to external websites or files which contain material that might reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.



Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those beliefs, is off limits.



This edict takes effect immediately.


Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS--PUB-MEMM-ALBUCIVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63510 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: File - language.txt
Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English, French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish.

---------------------------

El idioma de trabajo de Nova Roma es el Ingl�s, y su lenguaje ceremonial es el Lat�n. Hay otros idiomas no oficiales que deben ser considerados de uso com�n, debido a la naturaleza internacional de la comunidad nova romana. Para asegurar que la publicaci�n inmediata de los mensajes, escriba en Ingl�s, Franc�s, Alem�n, H�ngaro, Italiano, Lat�n, Portugu�s o Espa�ol.

-----------------------------

La lingua ufficiale a Nova Roma � l�Inglese e quella ceremoniale � il Latino. Ci sono altre lingue non ufficiali che devono essere considerate d�uso comune dovuto al carattere internazionale della comunit� nova romana. Per assicurarsi dell�immediata pubblicazione dei messaggi pu� scrivere in Inglese, Francese, Tedesco, Ungherese, Italiano, Latino, Portoghese o Spagnolo.

-----------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63511 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US

Salvete omnes,

 

Next week the first Roman Museum Bistro opens in America Austorientalis! It presents Ancient Roman history,

NR and offers also authentic Roman High Cuisine prepared by an expert who cooks this way since over 15 years.

Planned is a ceremony of the Religio Romana also representing NR and the Military.

 

Maior has offerd help but does not respond to e-mail.

 
After some postings here nothing moves. What'up fellow Romans?
So far there is only one loyal citizen who s interested in such an event.

Does NR have serious priests and maybe Reenactors who would like to participate.

 

PLEASE STEP FORWARD AN LET US BLOW SOME REAL LIFE INTO OUR REPUBLIC...
    HERE IN AMERICA..... OR ARE ONLY EUROPEANS CAPABLE TO DO SO? (YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB OVER THERE)

 

Press coverage for NR is organized. Print, Radio, depending on your response TV possible.

When I receive responses, a comfortable date and time for all, as well reasonable over night stays can be worked out!

 

Please respond to C.Aqvillivs_ Rota@yahoo. com

 

There is currently a huge interest of a REAL TOWN in SC to wellcome
NR.

Please pass this request on to others who are not on the mainlist since  I have problems to do so!

COME ON CITIZENS SHOW THAT YOU ARE REAL !!!

Valete

 

 

A.R. Magister Artium




From: c.aqvillivs_rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 10:12:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US

Salvete omnes,

Next week the first Roman Museum Bistro opens in America Austorientalis! It presents Ancient Roman history, NR and offers also authentic Roman High Cuisine prepared by an expert who cooks this way since over 15 years.

Planned is a ceremony of the Religio Romana also representing NR and the Military.

Maior has offerd help but does not respond to e-mail. 
After some postings here nothing moves. What'up fellow Romans?
So far there is only one loyal citizen who s interested in such an event.

Does NR have serious priests and maybe Reenactors who would like to participate.

PLEASE STEP FORWARD AN LET US BLOW SOME REAL LIFE INTO OUR REPUBLIC...
    HERE IN AMERICA..... OR ARE ONLY EUROPEANS CAPABLE TO DO SO? (YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB OVER THERE)

Press coverage for NR is organized. Print, Radio, depending on your response TV possible.

When I receive responses, a comfortable date and time for all, as well reasonable over night stays can be worked out!

Please respond to C.Aqvillivs_ Rota@yahoo. com

There is currently a huge interest of a REAL TOWN in SC to wellcome
NR.

Please pass this request on to others who are not on the mainlist since  I have problems to do so!

COME ON CITIZENS SHOW THAT YOU ARE REAL !!!

Valete

A.R. Magister Artium

 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63512 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: our CFO - name corrected
Cato omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

Let's make this perfectly clear: the discussion of the Magna Mater Project or any other of the challenges facing us should *not* be deflected onto the person of the CFO, Equestria Laeca.

As one of the handful of people "in the system" right now who has at least some sense of propriety and responsibility, she will *not* be thrown in front of us as some kind of sacrificial lamb. Who tied a rope around her neck and dragged her out here first? Maior. Maior, who volunteers - and grasps at, and often misquotes - everyone *else's* words and voice and common sense because when she speaks for herself the result is a hash of half-baked incongruent babble showing
a severe disconnect to the actual events that are taking place.

However, she *was* right that Equestria Lunica is an accountant. So cheers for getting one right, Maior.

The legal challenges facing the res publica are much more varied, much more deeply-ingrained that just the Magna Mater Project. They should not be laid at the feet of Equestria Laeca.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63513 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Salvete omnes

I have received a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Quintus Valerius Poplicola. The right to free speech is the hallmark of a free republic.

If anyone else has been placed on moderation, please contact the Tribunes.

I also call on the praetors to explain this assault on the rights of the people.

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63514 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Yesterday's Venator...
Avete omnes;

It has been a long time since I have seen the me that posted yesterday
(and the day before).

I will try channeling that energy within the more constructive manners
I have built since then.

--
Valete

Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63515 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: CHRISTOS ANESTI
Salve et avete;

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> To all of our citizens who celebrate this day as the Feast of The
> Resurrection of Christ, I wish you all the joy of this most holy day.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

Holy Days should be acknowledged and appreciated in the light of Nova
Roma's modern look at Ancient sensibilities.

Blessings of the Day to all who hold it Holy.

bene

Venii
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63516 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Censorship
Salvete omnes

It now appears that the praetors are moderating the posts of two additional Senators. They have also deleted a posting made by Senator Equitius Cato. I pronounce intercessio against these actions and again call on the praetors to explain their assault on the rights of free citizens.

Sic semper tyrannus

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63517 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Thoughts of a Tribune
Salvete omnes

It appears I am on moderation as my last post called "Censorship" was not sent out. Here it is again

Salvete omnes

It now appears that the praetors are moderating the posts of two additional Senators. They have also deleted a posting made by Senator Equitius Cato. I pronounce intercessio against these actions and again call on the praetors to explain their assault on the rights of free citizens.

Sic semper tyrannus

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63518 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Salvete omnes

I have receive a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix. The right to free speech is guaranteed in a free republic and Senator Cornelius Sulla Felix is no threat to Nova Roma. Some may find him objectionable but this cannot be used as an excuse to silence him.

Once again, I call on the praetors to explain their moderation of free citizens.

Sic semper tyrannus

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63519 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Ave G Vipsanius;

Thank you.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.

"I am a Nanolithic huntsman
seeking prey along gametrails of light."
from 'The meditations of Venator'
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63520 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: FREE NR WEEKEND: THE XXth FLORALIA
Salve Cornelius,

I really wish that I could attend. I just want you to know that I think that
this is really great of you and your team to organize this-- for free.
Vale,
Diana Octavia

----- Original Message -----
THE XXth FLORALIA CARNIVAL IN AQUINCUM (Hungary)

We received good credits so that this year Nova Roma has got a request from
the Museum of Aquincum to take part in organizing the 20th Floralia
Carnival, on 23-24th May.

PROGRAMS (MAY 23-24th, Budapest)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63521 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Moderation

The time is 9;35 AM local, Sunday.

 

As a free citizen of this Republic, I demand to know why the praetors have put me on moderation. If I am not on moderation, I demand to know why a message of mine (a message forwarding a message by Senator Cato) was not approved. I demand to know why the praetors tried to sweep this under the carpet by having a scribe write to me 12 hours after I posted my message.

 

Understand that an answer of “Everyone is moderated on the Main List” will not be satisfactory. I demand to know the precise reason why I am being moderated.

 

M. Valerius Potitus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63522 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Removal of moderation
Salvete omnes

I have received notice that Q. Valerius Poplicola is now off moderation. However, this notice does confirm that he indeed was placed on moderation in the first place. Why are the praetors placing citizens on moderation without notice to anyone? I call on the praetors to explain themselves to the people.

Sic semper tyrannis

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63523 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Q. Poplicola C. Agrippa,

Thank you so very much for standing up for our rights!

Optime valete!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <canadaoccidentalis@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 10:25 AM
To: "Nova Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Intercessio

>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I have received a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the
> moderation of Quintus Valerius Poplicola. The right to free speech is the
> hallmark of a free republic.
>
> If anyone else has been placed on moderation, please contact the Tribunes.
>
> I also call on the praetors to explain this assault on the rights of the
> people.
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
> Tribune of the Plebs
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63524 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Salve Lentule,

I agree that this has gone too far, and each side is fueling the flames. The recent censorship of two senators and some others was not only unnecessary, but politically irresponsible. The very people who were most agitated were censored and now this has all gone to a new level. Cato has called a corporate vote to remove the praetors and consuls. What reasonable person spits in the eyes of a rabid dog?

So, now what? Are those officers sufficiently confident that they can survive a vote? If not, I would recommend they immediately begin looking for a humble way to talk Cato down. I also think public apologies and explanations for the censorship are in order.

-Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
>
> I care, and I also could cry seeing Laenas as he leaves Nova Roma. He was a friend.
>
> This is the saddest thing in this year so far in Nova Roma.
>
> This is because of people who think politics, laws and arguments are more important than the spirit: the friendships, the individual souls.
>
> This is what anybody wanted?
>
> Angry people! Do you want to kill Nova Roma?
>
> What do you love *more*? Your anger or your republic? The legal nuances or the people for whom the laws exist?
>
>
> I BEG you guys both as a Pontiff of Nova Roma and as Priest of Concord:
> stop this right now. This is the limit, the moral limit where somebody
> is still a Nova Roman and a Fellow Citizen, but if takes one more step,
> ceases to be an honorable man for our Roman community.
>
> We all are here because we love Rome, the Roman values and the idea of a New Rome. We are a community of people from all over the world who wants the same thing: a "New Rome", a "new renaissance" - of classical values, arts, philosophy, culture and religion.
>
> But now, some ignore our wonderful common dream and focus on what divides us instead of focusing on what unites us into a Spiritual Nation. They do this, and they kill Nova Roma.
>
> This is the time for a dictator. A balanced, peaceful person a hard working citizen whom all trust. A consular who will create peace for Nova Roma.
>
> We have some who could do this job and whom I would support.
>
> CITIZENS!
>
> SAVE NOVA ROMA!
>
> CONCORDIA!
>
> SAVE NOVA ROMA!
>
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> Pontifex
> Sacerdos Concordiae
>
>
> --- Dom 19/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Domenica 19 Aprile 2009, 12:00
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I could really cry.
>
>
>
> Laenas is a great person and quite an even tempered guy. Once again all of
>
> the arguing has driven a good person away. We lost a good one today people.
>
> And as usual, I don't really think too many people care.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Gaius Popillius" <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
>
> To: "SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com" <SenatusRomanus@ yahoogroups. com>;
>
> <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:43 AM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation
>
>
>
> > Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
>
> > I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
>
> > I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova
>
> > Roma, Inc.
>
> > I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter,
>
> > Alexandra Popillia.
>
> > Valete,
>
> > Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63525 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: The Rule of Law
Cato omnibus in foro sal.

Salvete.

"Where the law is subject to some other authority and has none of its own, the collapse of the state, in my view, is not far off; but if law is the master of the government and the government is its slave, then the situation is full of promise and men enjoy all the blessings that the gods shower on a state." - Plato, "Laws"

"And the rule of law, it is argued, is preferable to that of any individual. On the same principle, even if it be better for certain individuals to govern, they should be made only guardians and ministers of the law...Therefore he who bids the law rule may be deemed to bid God and Reason alone rule, but he who bids man rule adds an element of the beast; for desire is a wild beast, and passion perverts the minds of rulers, even when they are the best of men. The law is reason unaffected by desire." - Aristotle, "Politics"

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63526 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Salve -

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
>[excision]
>
> This is the time for a dictator.
>
> [excision]

I find that a discordant note just now.

vale - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63527 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Lentulus Venatori s. p. d.


>>> I find that a discordant note just now. <<<


If this is so, I'm sorry. I wished to emphasize concordance.

I should note, however, that a dictator is not a bad word for a Roman, unlike it is in modern context. A Roman dictator is part of the system, and almost each second year saw a dictator in the early republic, who fixed the things, placated the conflicts and saved the state from a danger.

A dictator is the Roman solution when the collegial magistrates aren't effective enough to solve a problem. To be honest, I would love to see such a wise and balanced person like you as dictator of Nova Roma.

I know everyone would trust in such a dictator.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63528 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Well now, that's a problem. Venator or Caesar as dictator?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:59 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation

>
> Lentulus Venatori s. p. d.
>
>
>>>> I find that a discordant note just now. <<<
>
>
> If this is so, I'm sorry. I wished to emphasize concordance.
>
> I should note, however, that a dictator is not a bad word for a Roman,
> unlike it is in modern context. A Roman dictator is part of the system,
> and almost each second year saw a dictator in the early republic, who
> fixed the things, placated the conflicts and saved the state from a
> danger.
>
> A dictator is the Roman solution when the collegial magistrates aren't
> effective enough to solve a problem. To be honest, I would love to see
> such a wise and balanced person like you as dictator of Nova Roma.
>
> I know everyone would trust in such a dictator.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63529 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
Lentulus, amice;

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
> Lentulus Venatori s. p. d.
>
>>>> I find that a discordant note just now. <<<
>
> If this is so, I'm sorry. I wished to emphasize concordance.
>
> I should note, however, that a dictator is not a bad word for a Roman,
> unlike it is in modern context. A Roman dictator is part of the system, and
> almost each second year saw a dictator in the early republic, who fixed the
> things, placated the conflicts and saved the state from a danger.
>
> A dictator is the Roman solution when the collegial magistrates aren't
> effective enough to solve a problem. To be honest, I would love to see such
> a wise and balanced person like you as dictator of Nova Roma.
>
> I know everyone would trust in such a dictator.
>

I am well aware of just what a Dictator means in our Roman sense,
having been here during the previous use of this extreme measure.

My only choices are likely unacceptable, if such a measure were to be
enacted; invite either Cassius or Vedius back.

vale - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63530 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Dictator
Salvete
 
I too know how much a part of the Roman system a "dictator" was but as I recently said either here in in the Senate I would never support the appointment of a dictator given that we are still mostly an internet group.
 
I seem to have read somewhere that the number was close to every other year a dictator was appointed. Even given the longevity of the Roman system it SEEMS that it was prone to the wheels coming off as it were.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_dictators
 
Valete
 
Paulinus
 



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:10:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Resignation




Lentulus, amice;

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus wrote:
>
> Lentulus Venatori s. p. d.
>
>>>> I find that a discordant note just now. <<<
>
> If this is so, I'm sorry. I wished to emphasize concordance.
>
> I should note, however, that a dictator is not a bad word for a Roman,
> unlike it is in modern context. A Roman dictator is part of the system, and
> almost each second year saw a dictator in the early republic, who fixed the
> things, placated the conflicts and saved the state from a danger.
>
> A dictator is the Roman solution when the collegial magistrates aren't
> effective enough to solve a problem. To be honest, I would love to see such
> a wise and balanced person like you as dictator of Nova Roma.
>
> I know everyone would trust in such a dictator.
>

I am well aware of just what a Dictator means in our Roman sense,
having been here during the previous use of this extreme measure.

My only choices are likely unacceptable, if such a measure were to be
enacted; invite either Cassius or Vedius back.

vale - Venator

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63531 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration
Salve Senator!

For once we agree. Something along these lines need to be done. That was why I made the comments I did. I am not sure that a court would find the texts at the MMP-site to be illegal, but we must always try to be beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I will do my best to do my part to get this right.

*********

19 apr 2009 kl. 02.16 skrev Qfabiusmaxmi@...:


In a message dated 4/18/2009 10:41:21 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, christer.edling@... writes:
We do not have the "whole-hearted" respect of the international 
historical and archeological elit. If we could achieve such respect we 
thought Nova Roma would have much better chances of growing and 
attracting intelligent and knowledgeable discussions. Which in its 
turn would attract more citizens and probably other even more 
productive project, this should be an aim worthy as a goal.

The sad fact is that what goes on on our ML isn't directly promoting 
such a serious and productive enviroment. Because of that I can only 
commend the tone and approach of your article. I even think it goes a 
good way to reach an acceptable common "truth" about what has happened 
with the project. Assuming bad faith from the main parts in this 
discussion will not do that. If such an achievement could be reached 
we could soon fix this problem and move forward without letting 
oneissue tak al our time.

 
And Senator that was a noble goal.   But the precise reason we have no respect from the Getty, or Northwestern, or SDSU, Oxford, Cambridge et al, is the fact is when we find a problem instead of fixing it, we induldge in name calling, bite biting  and threats.  How on earth can a higher institution take us seriously?
 
Once Iulius shut down the MMP site using the imperium given to him through the college of lictors from the People of NR, that was it.
 
Now it was up to the Senate to devise a plan of action.
This plan would consist of three things.
1. Return the money donated by all donators.  This includes the dues money NR contributed.
2. Determine if the Senate, the controller of the NR fiances, wishes to continue the project.  
3. If they do, revise the web site to say that there is no true restoration planned, rather the money
will be used to conserve the site from further natural ravages, and detail those procedures.
 
Reopen the website, with the new goal prominently displayed. We do not want to mislead people, their money would clearly be going to the conservation of the Temple.  Don't even mention restoration. 
 
Then and only then, perhaps higher institutions might respect that.   We found a problem.  Corrected it in a timely matter.   
 
Ball is in your court.
 
Q. Fabius Maximus
 


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63532 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Decemvirate?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63533 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Salve
 
Show off....: )
 
Vale
 
Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:47:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Dictator



Decemvirate?

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63534 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Dictator
Salvete;

Hit send before completing the thought.

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 1:47 PM, P Ullerius Stephanus Venator wrote:
> Decemvirate?
>

Like the one of 451 BC, not its successor.

Even using his model as a solution, I would want our Paters Patria
involved, as well as others from the founding days who still have an
interest.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63535 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration (long post)
Salve,
 
Exactly, I'm glad you agree Gualterus. At the very least it would show that we were not purposefully being misleading if someone were to argue the case and it would show that when the possibility of being misleading was raised, we acted to ensure that it was clarified. The more forthcoming we are the less likely it will be that we could be seen to have acted criminally. Retractions and clarifications are hardly uncommon.
 
Rather than sitting here arguing about whether or not we need to act, I think we should take some simple steps and just cover ourselves. For the amount of effort it would take, it would be worth it simply to stop the conflict in NR over the issue. So let's do it.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:00 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Conservation and Restoration (long post)


Salve,

I completely agree with your final suggestion, that all of the donors be notified (email and surface mail if possible) to let them know that a possible miscommunication may have taken place, that we are aware of this, and that if they wish to get their money back they can.

In addition, the website should not be brought back until the content has been properly edited, not only for the specific points of miscommunication, but to make it fluent and professional English.

Finally, a big notice should be placed on the front page that lets everyone know that we are aware of possible misunderstandings over the aims of the project.

While the above points may not be a complete solution to the present difficulties, I think they are a good first step.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Titus Annaeus Regulus" <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ...> wrote:

>
>
Perhaps those in Europe could have done the same thing you now advise? The solution would have been to call the attention of the people who speak the language the text was written in. Ask somebody who speaks English as a first language. Restore is not conserve. The idea that only non-native English speakers worked on the project, and that there was no way to foresee a misunderstanding is a farce imo, especially considering quite a few NR citizens are native English speakers. I wouldn't write an article looking for fundraising in France and post it. I speak some French as a Canadian, but it is not my first language, and communications regarding something as important as transfer of monies would definitely warrant me asking one of our fine French citizens for their opinion on my article.
>
> That would mean that not once was
anybody who was familiar with colloquial English consulted. That seems like gross negligence, although I am fairly convinced that it was not purposeful fraud. All the same, if our own ineptitude caused the situation, we would still be legally liable. Perhaps rather than allocate blame we should simply fix the issue, and put structures in place so this doesn't happen again.
>
> I like the MMP, both what I thought it was and what it actually is, but
I think it could reasonably be argued we were misleading. That is enough to at least notify the donors of the actual details of the project in my mind. If they choose to withdraw their funds, it is their choice. The action of MMP identifying a possible ambiguity, and then notifying donors to avoid possible misunderstanding would be an excellent example of good faith on our part should we ever be in a situation to defend ourselves legally. Was it to be known that we bantered around possible ambiguity and possibly misleading donors, and did nothing, that would set an example of an entirely different sort, and we can all imagine what that would be.
>
> Vale,
> T. Annæus
Regulus
>
>
> From: livia_plauta
> Sent: Saturday,
April 18, 2009 8:26 PM
> To:
href="mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Conservation and Restoration (long
post)
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve
Gualtere,
> it's so nice to see someone writing with total objectivity and
neutrality, for a change.
> Your assessment seems right. If the potential
donors had read the text it would have been completely clear what the project was about.
>
> Obviously there was a huge miscommunication problem,
but the solution would have been to to call the attention of the people responsible on this, and ask for a reformulation of the text.
> Nobody in
Europe really had a way to foresee such a gross misunderstanding.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > Instead of slinging mud back and forth and insulting each
other, I think it's more reasonable to first of all recognize that there obviously was some confusion over the MMP aims. How did this come about?
> >
> > Now, since this is a very long post I will give you the
abstract in case you don't want to read the rest: the MMP website description is in tension with the actual conservation work being done on the Palatine hill which can reasonably lead to confusion. Whether this tension is sufficient to constitute "fraud" I cannot say. OK, now here we go...
> >
> > When it comes to saving archaeological sites the normal keyword is
"conservation" although "restoration" is used as well when some type of rebuilding is possible or desired. Often rebuilding, even partial, is not possible, but let's not pretend that it can't be done. Look at the wording of this news update: http://www.archaeol ogy.org/online/ news/acropolis. html . They use the word "restoration" for what is happening on the acropolis because, in fact, what is happening there is extensive rebuilding. Where stones are missing new ones are being fabricated, etc.
> >
> > This
article on the work being done on the temple of Apollo Epikourios uses both terms: http://www.archaeol ogy.org/0009/ newsbriefs/ monument. html . It describes the overall project as "restoration" but when detailing what will actually be done, clarifies that it will be conservation work.
> >
> > Finally, in describing the work being done at Sagalassos (
href="http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/sagalassos/field07/index.html">http://www.archaeol ogy.org/interact ive/sagalassos/ field07/index. html), both terms are used together "Conservation & Restoration" . If you read the three short notes in this section of the website, you will find that both types of work are being engaged in, conservation and partial rebuilding (restoration) .
> >
> > Finally, let us look at the MMP
page and the Giavarini, Pensabene, et al. article that Complutensis linked for us yesterday. Under "Project" the website explains:
> >
> >
"In 2002 the members of the international association Nova Roma Inc. decided to start a project that could boost and improve the relationship between this cultural association and the real world. It was decided to further the correct restoration and care of the Temple of Magna Mater on the Palatine Hill in Rome."
> >
> > Under the "Status" section:
> >
> > "The area is nowadays not reachable by the tourist because of the
lack of funds for a complete restoration, that is going on very slowly.
> > Prof. Patrizio Pensabene of the University of Rome "La Sapienza", Facoltà
di Lettere e Filosofia, is the coordinator and chief of all the restoration works done in that area of the Palatine Hill..."
> >
> > Now
turning to the Giavarini, Pensabene, et al. article, a careful reading makes it quite clear what their work will entail. Section three of the paper (p. 6) clearly labels the work "Conservation. " What is described is primarily work to save the site from further deterioration or possible collapse. Part of this will involve work on some sewage ducts which will be "restored and used again." The upper parts will be "filled with light material to restore a flat roof on the top; the roof will be protected with waterproofing material and equipped with draining systems." Also, "a series of partial re-constructions or protective small substructions are also under study." However, it goes on to state that the current effort is to save the site from "possible collapses of the structures and further decay". Finally, the mention of "restoration works" in the last sentence clearly refers to the previous sentence and is not a description of the entire project.
> >
> > So, to the extent
that there currently is "restoration" it is to control erosion by rainwater. Future, small efforts at "restoration" are under study. The overall effort at the moment is, however, "conservation. " This is in tension with how the MMP website describes this project. The website says "complete restoration" and describes the current archaeological work as "restoration works."
> >
> > Now, on the "project" page the MMP site does use the phrase "the
correct restoration and care". I think what the author(s) of this page intended to say was "conservation and restoration" . Unfortunately, on the "status" page the emphasis is wholly on "restoration" which misrepresents the current work being done on the Palatine hill.
> >
> > What happened
here? I suspect it was bad editing and writing. Whoever wrote the MMP content clearly was not familiar with the normal language of conservation and restoration work in archaeological articles. Part of this may have been because the author was not a native speaker of English (various style issues give this away). Another factor may have been an impulse towards sensationalization and exaggeration in order to get more donors.
> >
> > I'm not
sure if the tension between the website descriptions and the actual work being done on the Palatine hill is sufficient to constitute fraud, but it can certainly be misleading, so I think the back and forth insults over whether someone could have intelligently divined the actual conservation work from the MMP website content should stop.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63536 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Censorship
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus Gaius Vispanius Agrippa s.p.d.

Salve,

Would you please e-mail me personally and allow me to confer with you on proceeding with an intercessio.I would appreciate it.

Vale bene,
Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
Tribune of the Plebs

--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa <canadaoccidentalis@...> wrote:

> From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa <canadaoccidentalis@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Censorship
> To: "Nova Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 11:36 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
>
>
> It now appears that the praetors are moderating the posts
> of two additional Senators. They have also deleted a
> posting made by Senator Equitius Cato. I pronounce
> intercessio against these actions and again call on the
> praetors to explain their assault on the rights of free
> citizens.
>
>
>
> Sic semper tyrannus
>
>
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Tribune of the Plebs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63537 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Conservation and Restoration (long post)
Avete;

Thank you all for this very positive and informative discussion of this matter.

Points made, solutions offered, courtesies extended; good, very good.

valete - Venator

(who is going offline for the next 4 hours to serve his wife a birthday feast,
menu as featured on the Back Alley =)

(permission granted to forward that here, if anyone wants ,-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63538 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve3, Gai Vipsani.

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> I have receive a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

Not issued within the proper timeframe, so invaild, sorry.

> [...] Cornelius Sulla Felix is no threat to Nova Roma.
That is an outright lie. He has threatened and continue to threaten the
res publica and her inner workings time and time again. Whether he
claims it to be "for her own good" is irrelevant.

Vale, Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63539 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve
 
If the moderation is an ongoing policy, then my intercessio applies at any time.  I thought you resigned anyway.
 
Agrippa

--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 2:22 PM

Salve3, Gai Vipsani.

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> I have receive a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

Not issued within the proper timeframe, so invaild, sorry.

> [...] Cornelius Sulla Felix is no threat to Nova Roma.
That is an outright lie. He has threatened and continue to threaten the
res publica and her inner workings time and time again. Whether he
claims it to be "for her own good" is irrelevant.

Vale, Pius.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63540 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: The thought police strike again
Salvete omne


--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> wrote:

> From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...>
> Subject: Censored Post
> To: "Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <canadaoccidentalis@...>
> Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 1:59 PM
> Dear Tribune Agrippa
>
> I made a post to the ML yesterday that never appeared. The
> text of the message was: "Congratulations, Maior and
> co. Another casualty in your efforts to destroy NR."
>
> Today I received the below message from a Praetor.
>
> I am apparently no longer under moderation but I wanted to
> let you know about my post that was prevented from
> appearing.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Cicero
>
>
>
>
> >Salve, Cicero!
>
> >Your post is rejected because it contains factual error
> that would >harm citizen M. Hortensia Maior's name
> and also would cause even >more fervent debate and hatred
> based on this factual misstatement of >yours.
>
> >I confirm you that Censor Laenas' resignation was
> not because of >"Maior and co." but because of
> "Sulla and co." as he himself >explained it -
> I'm sure you're innocent but there are manipulative
> >citizens who may use Laenas' resignation as a tool.
>
> >You are off moderation, so you can voice your opinion
> in a new post >anytime: just please try to adhere to
> facts instead of misinformed >accusation.
>
> >Vale optime!
> >Lentulus, scribe
>
>
>
>
> > Congratulations, Maior and co. Another casualty in
> your efforts to destroy NR.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Popillius
> <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor,
> and Lictor in Nova Roma.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I also resign from the Board of Directors and as
> Board Secretary of Nova
> > > Roma, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of
> my minor daughter,
> > > Alexandra Popillia.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
> > >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63541 From: Jennifer Harris Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salvete,

It seems that the post below regarding Censor Gaius Popilius Laenas,
actually doesn't say why he left Nova Roma or blaming any particular
indiviudals for reason of quick departure. It just states that he was
resigning his citizenship and that of his young offspring, pretty
plain and simple. Perhaps instead of the case of assuming, pointing
fingers and the petty bickering of "he left because of this person or
that person" lets all give the benefit of doubt . How about letting
the decision of explanation come from the former Censor himself if he
so chooses to do so? In the meantime this whole moderation thing is a
bit out of control, I saw a post earlier in regards to no moderations
happening in the month of May does this still stand Consuls? If that
is the case, maybe you want to start it now just so there is a small
balm on the list and a little concordia can flow through, so that the
Leaders of our organization can have their full attention to the
troubled waters that are ahead.

Valete,
Aeternia

P.S. Could you also lift me from the moderation, I believe I may have
never left that status? It would be most appreciative :-)

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
<canadaoccidentalis@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salvete omne
>
> --- On Sun, 4/19/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> wrote:
>
>> From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...>
>> Subject: Censored Post
>> To: "Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <canadaoccidentalis@...>
>> Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 1:59 PM
>> Dear Tribune Agrippa
>>
>> I made a post to the ML yesterday that never appeared. The
>> text of the message was: "Congratulations, Maior and
>> co. Another casualty in your efforts to destroy NR."
>>
>> Today I received the below message from a Praetor.
>>
>> I am apparently no longer under moderation but I wanted to
>> let you know about my post that was prevented from
>> appearing.
>>
>> Vale,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Cicero
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Salve, Cicero!
>>
>> >Your post is rejected because it contains factual error
>> that would >harm citizen M. Hortensia Maior's name
>> and also would cause even >more fervent debate and hatred
>> based on this factual misstatement of >yours.
>>
>> >I confirm you that Censor Laenas' resignation was
>> not because of >"Maior and co." but because of
>> "Sulla and co." as he himself >explained it -
>> I'm sure you're innocent but there are manipulative
>> >citizens who may use Laenas' resignation as a tool.
>>
>> >You are off moderation, so you can voice your opinion
>> in a new post >anytime: just please try to adhere to
>> facts instead of misinformed >accusation.
>>
>> >Vale optime!
>> >Lentulus, scribe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Congratulations, Maior and co. Another casualty in
>> your efforts to destroy NR.
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Popillius
>> <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor,
>> and Lictor in Nova Roma.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I also resign from the Board of Directors and as
>> Board Secretary of Nova
>> > > Roma, Inc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of
>> my minor daughter,
>> > > Alexandra Popillia.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Valete,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
>> > >
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63542 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salvete,

So, truth is now being decided by the moderators? Obviously not everyone would agree with Cicero's comment, but then again, many people on here throw out half-cocked statements. Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory. That post was let through--does this indicate that political differences are now turning into systemic prejudice? If that is the case, then I smell an abuse of office.

Valete,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa <canadaoccidentalis@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete omne
>
>
> --- On Sun, 4/19/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...>
> > Subject: Censored Post
> > To: "Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <canadaoccidentalis@...>
> > Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 1:59 PM
> > Dear Tribune Agrippa
> >
> > I made a post to the ML yesterday that never appeared. The
> > text of the message was: "Congratulations, Maior and
> > co. Another casualty in your efforts to destroy NR."
> >
> > Today I received the below message from a Praetor.
> >
> > I am apparently no longer under moderation but I wanted to
> > let you know about my post that was prevented from
> > appearing.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Cicero
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Salve, Cicero!
> >
> > >Your post is rejected because it contains factual error
> > that would >harm citizen M. Hortensia Maior's name
> > and also would cause even >more fervent debate and hatred
> > based on this factual misstatement of >yours.
> >
> > >I confirm you that Censor Laenas' resignation was
> > not because of >"Maior and co." but because of
> > "Sulla and co." as he himself >explained it -
> > I'm sure you're innocent but there are manipulative
> > >citizens who may use Laenas' resignation as a tool.
> >
> > >You are off moderation, so you can voice your opinion
> > in a new post >anytime: just please try to adhere to
> > facts instead of misinformed >accusation.
> >
> > >Vale optime!
> > >Lentulus, scribe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Congratulations, Maior and co. Another casualty in
> > your efforts to destroy NR.
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Popillius
> > <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor,
> > and Lictor in Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I also resign from the Board of Directors and as
> > Board Secretary of Nova
> > > > Roma, Inc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of
> > my minor daughter,
> > > > Alexandra Popillia.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
> > > >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63543 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Cato consules omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

Earlier I called for the tribunes to gather the People to vote on the removal of magistrates from office. I realized that under the law, both Nova Roman and US law, the comitia which elected them must vote to remove them.

So consuls I charge you, in accordance with the governing act of the corporation, with including in the upcoming elections the provisions to allow the People to vote in the comitia centuriata on your removal from office, as well as the removal of the praetors.

If you refuse, I will contact the Secretary of State of the State of Maine to begin the judicial process by which you will be *forced* to call a vote. This is not a choice, consuls. You can do this the easy way - which should cause you no concern if you are convinced you are performing your duties faithfully under the law - or you can do this the hard way, with the US looking over your shoulder.

Again please remember that under US law officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.

I give you until 1700h (Rome time) on Wednesday, 22 April, to reply.

If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63544 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio
Salvete omnes

I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius. This has been requested by Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix and Senator Gaius Equitius Cato.

The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4

"The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility"

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63545 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
gualterus_graecus wrote:
> Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory.
>

Salve, Gualtere.

Hardly - Sulla threatens with lawsuits on an almost continual basis. This is a fact and makes him a very real threat to the res publica. Pointing out FACTUAL truth, as opposed to the highly subjective "personal" truth of some, Cato for instance, is not inflammatory speech.

Cato whom, by the way, is currently threatening with using US laws against the res publica, in this very thread. Which makes him a threat in the same category as Sulla. Use our internal systems or be acknowledged as the traitors of the res publica and dangers to it that you are.

As to why my post was let through, I have been a member on this list since it was created. I am not moderated until my posts make me so.

Vale, Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63546 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Cato Pio sal.

Salve.

"Our" internal procedures? But - you're not a citizen.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am, in fact, giving the consuls the very opportunity you demand - that they call the comitia centuriata in conjunction with the already scheduled elections and have this vote taken under our - "our" as in we citizens' - internal procedures.

You consider a demand that the citizens be ruled by our laws rather than by the whim of magistrates to be a "threat" to our res publica? That's a tough sell, Pius. If the consuls and praetors fear the voice of the People, good. They should.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63547 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Keith Sterne's resignation
Avete Omnes,

I want to express my disappointment at the resignation of my friend Laenas. He was a good friend and over the years him and I had many good laughs and talks. I always viewed him with respect and acknowledged his efforts to build bridges within all factions of Nova Roma.

However, time is not on our hands. There is no evidence of a change in attitude from THE POWERS THAT BE.

I believe and am convinced that they simply used Laenas friendly nature as and used him to target me - as emphasized in the back alley.

They dragged laenas further into the conflicts by hounding him all the time over his decision to invite me into the senate. I accept that Laenas view of myself - I cannot change his opinion, but I tell you, People of Nova Roma that it will not deflect you from ensuring that the evident abuses and attempts to see NR controlled by the same self-perpetuating clique that has had its hand on NR's tiller for over 5 years must stop NOW! Nova Roma must no longer be governed by a clique that distorts and twist Nova Romas by laws for its own ends.

Nova Roma is supposed to be governed by laws. And, if it cost me the friendship of Laenas, I have no choice but to accept it, but it will not stop me from taking my fiduciary duty seriously and work to make Nova Roma compliant with all laws within Nova Roma and in Maine.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63548 From: Priscilla Queen of the Desert Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Longevity in Nova Roma. . .
Salve Venator,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but isn't this a "republic" of sorts? I have witnessed the mentioning of taxes and citizenship and I wonder- what kind of republic "mourns" citizens that don't commit crimes but instead exist and argue with the status quo? In my naieve mind I think of America post 9-11 where anyone who even stepped outside of the blinding nationalism that forbade free thought was instantly attacked and eviscerated by "loyalists"- it wasn't productive and in the end left us far worse off. Looking like shut in fools fisting french fries into our mouths with flags on our SUVs.

While we as citizens (and myself as a non-citizen of Nova Roma but a citizen of the United States) may not always agree with each other- it turns my stomach a bit to see the "moderation" of a citizen's thoughts, all while the Republic posts messages asking for tax dollars. Protests are squashed, dissenting voices are silenced or ignored, and "spin" wobbles wildly out of control all while those in power assume that the "commoners" are imbeciles incapable of formulating opinions for themselves.

Yes, things may have "gone wrong" but not for the reasons I have seen posted.

It saddens me to see people leave, I think Nova Roma has great potential- but in the end potential means nothing when you're trying to bring forth results or at least discussion. Especially if the discussion is one sided and wishes to shut out the voice of any others.

With respect,

-Pythia Theocritos


Knowledge must come through action; you can have no test which is not fanciful, save by trial.
-Sophocles

--- On Sat, 4/18/09, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Longevity in Nova Roma. . .
To: "NR-Main List" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>, BackAlley@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 10:02 PM

Avete omnes;

May That Which Is Holy bless and keep each of you as you have earned.

In July, 1998 I became the 78th Citizen of the fledgling organization
known then and now as Nova Roma.

Good Gods, the evolutions, revolutions and gyrations we have undergone since.

How many have been here as long or longer than me, without a break?

If it is less than half, we have gone horribly wrong.

We have many former Citizens whose absence we should mourn.

We have many current Citizens whose presence we should mourn.

--
In fide et cogitatio
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Kalends Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63550 From: C. Stricklin Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Resignation
Salve!
 
 
I hate to see anyone go. I know this difficult time will pass and hopefully Nova Roma will grow stronger because of it.
 
 
Please reconsider leaving Nova Roma as a whole, maybe you could just use a break from civil service.
 
 
Vale,
 
T. Ovidius Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63551 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
>
> "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
>

Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
intercessio against the constitution.

Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.

Vale, Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63552 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Nova Roma is not a country. It is a corporation that is SUPPOSED TO BE RULED BY LAW. In this case the law of NR, Maine and the US. When I was illegally tossed out of the Senate I exercised my right to legal redress of grievances via Maine and US law - and it is in compliance with NR's Constitution.

IF NR decides to disregard the laws of Maine and the US. I will comply with my fiduciary duty to protect the corporation. It is pitiful that you did not hold the same regard, Pius, then maybe NR would not be in the mess it is in.

Vale,

Sulla


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> gualterus_graecus wrote:
> > Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory.
> >
>
> Salve, Gualtere.
>
> Hardly - Sulla threatens with lawsuits on an almost continual basis. This is a fact and makes him a very real threat to the res publica. Pointing out FACTUAL truth, as opposed to the highly subjective "personal" truth of some, Cato for instance, is not inflammatory speech.
>
> Cato whom, by the way, is currently threatening with using US laws against the res publica, in this very thread. Which makes him a threat in the same category as Sulla. Use our internal systems or be acknowledged as the traitors of the res publica and dangers to it that you are.
>
> As to why my post was let through, I have been a member on this list since it was created. I am not moderated until my posts make me so.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63553 From: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: NovaRomaBookClub
Salvete

The Nove Roma Book Club is back. Anybody who would like to join can do so by applying to:

NovaRomaBookClub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63554 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,

Your usage of "traitors" is very loose indeed, since we are discussing a corporation here. Nova Roma as a *community* can transcend these issues, of course, and in fact survive any lawsuit simply because the people can continue to freely associate, but if you want NR to also be a legal corporation then it is completely legitimate that people can exercise their legal rights on whatever level they wish.

Now, if everyone doesn't like this, then perhaps we should dissolve the corporation and reconstitute the organization in a different way. But, so long as you try to plug the organization's existence into some plane of macronational legal structure, it will always be legitimate for people to make use of the larger legal framework. Perhaps Nova Roma shouldn't be a corporation at all?

Now, Sulla's threat was a threat against the corporation, not the community in general (Cato's threat is not even a threat against the corporation, since it won't result in its dissolution, just a vote on certain officers). So, if Sulla was a threat to the republic, does the republic merely equal the corporation, or is it something more transcendent? If it is something bigger, something that can exist wherever we wish to freely meet, then in what sense can Sulla be a threat?

So, you see, the truth value of your comments depends very much on certain assumptions about the nature of Nova Roma, which can vary from civis to civis. This, along with the fact that many people do not agree that Sulla is an enemy of the state, should give one pause. Your loose use of the term "traitor" further underscores, in my opinion, the subjective nature of your conception of Nova Roma and its place in the world. My opinion, therefore, is that your statements were on the same level as the various streams of rhetoric we see come from Cato and others, and therefore, in this context, inflammatory.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> gualterus_graecus wrote:
> > Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory.
> >
>
> Salve, Gualtere.
>
> Hardly - Sulla threatens with lawsuits on an almost continual basis. This is a fact and makes him a very real threat to the res publica. Pointing out FACTUAL truth, as opposed to the highly subjective "personal" truth of some, Cato for instance, is not inflammatory speech.
>
> Cato whom, by the way, is currently threatening with using US laws against the res publica, in this very thread. Which makes him a threat in the same category as Sulla. Use our internal systems or be acknowledged as the traitors of the res publica and dangers to it that you are.
>
> As to why my post was let through, I have been a member on this list since it was created. I am not moderated until my posts make me so.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63555 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Cato Pio sal.

Salve!

Did you not get the connect between the uses of the word "reasonable"?

Let me spell it out:

The Constitution allows for "reasonable" moderation. The intercessio declares that the kinds of moderation that have occurred are beyond "reasonable".

Not rocket science there.

Vale,

Cato

P.S. - for someone who resigned and shows no interest in coming back, you certainly do get all worked up about our res publica. Maybe you should come back if you care so much. GEC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63556 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
Lucius Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El dom, 19/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 11:39

Cato consules omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

Earlier I called for the tribunes to gather the People to vote on the removal of magistrates from office. I realized that under the law, both Nova Roman and US law, the comitia which elected them must vote to remove them.

So consuls I charge you, in accordance with the governing act of the corporation, with including in the upcoming elections the provisions to allow the People to vote in the comitia centuriata on your removal from office, as well as the removal of the praetors.

If you refuse, I will contact the Secretary of State of the State of Maine to begin the judicial process by which you will be *forced* to call a vote. This is not a choice, consuls. You can do this the easy way - which should cause you no concern if you are convinced you are performing your duties faithfully under the law - or you can do this the hard way, with the US looking over your shoulder.

Again please remember that under US law officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.

I give you until 1700h (Rome time) on Wednesday, 22 April, to reply.

If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote.

Valete,

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63557 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Omnibus s.d.
 
Please find below my edictum 62-03.
 
 
Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
 
 
P. Memmius Albucius
praetor
 
--------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
 

P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the application of lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)

I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the constitution, the laws and
the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;

In view of :

  • the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;

  • the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and lex Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which provides that “Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial edictum. Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous iurisprudentia through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such a course of action is necessary.” ;

  •  

Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi on dies nefasti;

Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen of Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and transparent access to Novaroman justice;

 

edict :


Article 1

The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed by former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by the rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor Memmius may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..


Article 2

In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws, Pr. Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the interpretation and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:

- mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues

- general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the United Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the Ancient Roman law;

- ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or custom rules.

 

No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules, that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of “useful effect”, which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate reasoning.

 

 

Article 3

The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently rules Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the Constitution.

 



 

Article 4

In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova Roma penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as necessary and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification of the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included the case of proceedings in absentia.


Article 5

Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.


Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (20th January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.

 
----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63558 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63559 From: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63560 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Correction to link on Website

Will the person or persons who maintian the web page please correct the link for elections?

 

In the upper right hand  corner, there is a link for the Comitia Populi Tributa that doesn’t work properly, because it is trying to link to a Yahoo group that doesn’t exist = comitia populi tributa centuriata. The Yahoo groups for the two comitiae are separate.

 

M. Valerius Potitus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63561 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve,

"Your idiotic intercessio"? More inflammatory language. You're inching closer to Lentulus' criteria for censorship. If the moderation policy is to be even-handed then it would be just that the moderators send you a warning if you continue on this track.

-Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63562 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Cato Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve.


ummmm.....what?



Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63563 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio!
Salve et salvete,

The pupose of this post is to declare my intention to support my colleague Agrippa in his intercessio.I do not feel that opposition to this has been valid.

Valete bene,

Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
Tribune of the Plebs

--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Yahoo! Groups <notify@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> From: Yahoo! Groups <notify@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Unable to deliver your message
> To: galerius_of_rome@...
> Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 6:34 PM
> We are unable to deliver the message from
> <galerius_of_rome@...>
> to <nove-roma@yahoogroups.com>.
>
> Your message was sent to a group that does not exist.
> Please check
> to make sure you spelled the group name correctly.
>
> For further assistance, please visit
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63564 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
gualterus_graecus wrote:
> [...] [Lots of stuff] [...]

Salve,

What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?

So they are trying to use, or at least threatening with using, an
outside force to cause harm to the republic. "Traitor" does indeed
depend on seeing the res publica as something more than a corporation.

And we are not discussing a corporation. If we were, I would have
nothing to say about Sulla's and Cato's actions. Except that they really
ought to be fired.

Nova Roma is not and has never been an attempt to create yet another US
corporation. We are an attempt to recreate an actual republic. Sulla's
and Cato's actions, or threat of actions, endanger that attempt.

Vale, Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63565 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Salvete Omnes,
 
Um ... sorry to be so dense, but could someone *please* explain this to me?  I fear I find it incomprehensible.
 
Respectfully,
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63566 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'.  This is unreasonable by any measure
 
I thought you resigned anyway.
 
Agrippa
 


--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 3:57 PM

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
>
> "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
>

Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
intercessio against the constitution.

Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.

Vale, Pius.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63567 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63568 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
" If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63569 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Well, if you don't do illegal things, no one would have a motive to sue.
Follow the law and all will be fine. How is that too hard for you to
comprehend?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 4:49 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

> gualterus_graecus wrote:
>> Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the
>> republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory.
>>
>
> Salve, Gualtere.
>
> Hardly - Sulla threatens with lawsuits on an almost continual basis. This
> is a fact and makes him a very real threat to the res publica. Pointing
> out FACTUAL truth, as opposed to the highly subjective "personal" truth of
> some, Cato for instance, is not inflammatory speech.
>
> Cato whom, by the way, is currently threatening with using US laws against
> the res publica, in this very thread. Which makes him a threat in the same
> category as Sulla. Use our internal systems or be acknowledged as the
> traitors of the res publica and dangers to it that you are.
>
> As to why my post was let through, I have been a member on this list since
> it was created. I am not moderated until my posts make me so.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63570 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Cato Catoni sal.

Salve.

Ummm...no.

I have asked that the consuls make provision in the already scheduled elections (the ones in which you are seeking a curule magistracy) for the comitia centurita to vote. ONLY if they refuse - only if, presented with the law, they refuse to obey it - will I submit us to the appropriate judicial process under US law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
> "
> If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."
>
> 1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
> 2nd. If they don't, you will force it.
>
> This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63571 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this Edictum...

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com> escribió:
De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00

Ex officio praetorum:

The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.
Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome. All
users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to
the Nova Roma mailing list. Violations of these rules will result in corrective
action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction
of posting privileges for citizens.


---

I. Language

Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official
ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must
be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the
Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English,
French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write
your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for
some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.



All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as
whatever vernacular languages are relevant.



---


II. Topics of discussion

Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and other state
activities

The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and
philosophy of Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece, the ancient Near East, and other
cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.

Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such
digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this
kind must be clearly marked as “off topic”.



---

III. Civil Discourse

All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will follow
these rules of civil discourse:

Show respect for others.

Recognize a person’s right to advocate ideas that are different from your
own.

Discuss policies and ideas without attacking people.

Use helpful, not hurtful language.

Write as you would like to be written to.

Restate ideas when asked.

Write in good faith.

Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.

Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.

When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.

Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may
be different.

Recognize that people can agree to disagree.

Speak and write for yourself, not others.



---

IV. Forbidden

The following are forbidden:

Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)

References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly
within the context of a historical discussion, with citations given, unless the
material is a matter of common knowledge

Links to external websites or files which contain material that might
reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.



Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those
beliefs, is off limits.



This edict takes effect immediately.


Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS--PUB-MEMM-ALBUCIVS



------------------------------------

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63572 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
"Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned, enforce
the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and
in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists."

This is unconstitutional.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:37 PM
To: <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>; <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>;
<novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Gnaeus Equitius Marinius" <gawne@...>; "Liste préteurs"
<praetores@yahoogroups.com>; "Marcus Curiatius Complutensis"
<complutensis@...>; "Marcus Iulius Severus"
<marcusiuliusseverus@...>; "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus"
<christer.edling@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria

>
> Omnibus s.d.
>
>
>
> Please find below my edictum 62-03.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
>
>
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
>
> praetor
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the application of
> lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)
>
> I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the
> constitution, the laws and
> the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;
> In view of :
>
>
> the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;
>
> the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and lex
> Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which
> provides that “Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not
> present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall
> create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar
> situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the
> praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial edictum.
> Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede
> iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous iurisprudentia
> through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such a
> course of action is necessary.” ;
>
>
> Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi on
> dies nefasti;
> Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen of
> Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and
> transparent access to Novaroman justice;
>
> edict :
>
> Article 1
> The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed by
> former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by the
> rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor Memmius
> may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..
>
> Article 2
>
> In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws, Pr.
> Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the interpretation
> and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:
> - mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues
> - general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of
> proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the United
> Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the
> Ancient Roman law;
> - ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or custom
> rules.
>
> No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules,
> that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of “useful
> effect”, which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to
> issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate
> reasoning.
>
>
> Article 3
> The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be
> treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently rules
> Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the
> Constitution.
>
>
>
>
> Article 4
> In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova Roma
> penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as necessary
> and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules
> which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification of
> the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included the
> case of proceedings in absentia.
>
> Article 5
>
> Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned, enforce
> the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae
> and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.
>
> Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (20th
> January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis and
> M. Iulius Severus.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger !
> Téléchargez-le maintenant !
> http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63573 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any measure
>

Here is what you wrote:

"I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."

Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.

/Pius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63574 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Yes! All CITIZENS ought to be freely able to speak their mind.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:05 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio

> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
>> The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any
>> measure
>>
>
> Here is what you wrote:
>
> "I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
> the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."
>
> Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
> moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
> constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.
>
> /Pius
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63575 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
> What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
> and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?

The removal of power-drunk magistrates who are unconstitutionally censoring political
speech they disagree with: yes, that is something positive.

Why do you assume it is negative?


--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63576 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE

L. C. Cato,

 

Nice try! But the line you highlight in the Edictum de Sermone doesn’t mean that the praetors or their scribes can stop a citizen’s message and ask them to restate it. It means that. If a citizen posts something, and I do nto understand it, that citizen should “restate ideas”.

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Lucius Coruncanius Cato
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:59 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE

 




Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this Edictum...

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com > escribió:

De: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Para : Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00

Ex officio praetorum:

The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.  
Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome.  All
users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to
the Nova Roma mailing list.  Violations of these rules will result in corrective
action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and
 restriction
of posting privileges for citizens.


 
---

I. Language

Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official
ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must
be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the
Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English,
French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write
your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for
some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.

 

All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as
whatever vernacular languages are relevant.

 

---


II. Topics of discussion

Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and
 other  state
activities

The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and
philosophy of  Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece , the ancient Near East, and other
cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.

Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such
digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this
kind must be clearly marked as “off topic”.

 

---

III. Civil Discourse

All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will  follow
these rules of civil discourse:

Show respect for others.

Recognize a person’s right to advocate ideas that are different from your
own.


Discuss policies and ideas without
 attacking people.

Use helpful, not hurtful language.

Write as you would like to be written to.

Restate ideas when asked.

Write in good faith.

Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.

Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.

When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.

Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may
be different.

Recognize that people can agree to disagree.

Speak and write for yourself, not others.

 

---

IV. Forbidden

The following are forbidden:

Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)

References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly
within  the context of a historical
 discussion, with citations given, unless the
 material is a matter of common knowledge

Links to external websites or files which contain material that might
reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.

 

Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those
beliefs, is off limits.

 

This edict takes effect immediately.


Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS- -PUB-MEMM- ALBUCIVS



------------ --------- --------- ------

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    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change
 settings online go to:
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63577 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
Salvete omnes,

tomorrow we are going to perform the Feriae latinae ritual on Mount Albano, near Rome.

Luckily C. Petronius Dexter, who will officiate, does not have internet access here in Rome, so he has no idea of the madness that's ruling in NR.

Probably I'd better not tell him until after the ritual, or maybe we should somewhow modify the ritual to exclude the warmongers from the benevolence of Juppiter.

Or maybe we should instead make a big sacrifice to dea Mens in order to ask her to go back into the heads of Sulla, Cato, and caesar. But maybe she's so disgusted with them that there's no way she will have anything to do with them again, no matter how big the sacrifice.

Oh, well. Tomorrow we shall see.

Valete,
Livia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63578 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Cato Catoni sal.

Salve.

What purpose does copying this edict here have? You have lost me.

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this Edictum...
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com> escribió:
> De: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00
>
> Ex officio praetorum:
>
> The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.
> Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome. All
> users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to
> the Nova Roma mailing list. Violations of these rules will result in corrective
> action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction
> of posting privileges for citizens.
>
>
> ---
>
> I. Language
>
> Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official
> ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must
> be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the
> Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English,
> French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write
> your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for
> some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.
>
>
>
> All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as
> whatever vernacular languages are relevant.
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
> II. Topics of discussion
>
> Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and other state
> activities
>
> The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and
> philosophy of Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece, the ancient Near East, and other
> cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.
>
> Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such
> digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this
> kind must be clearly marked as “off topic”.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> III. Civil Discourse
>
> All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will follow
> these rules of civil discourse:
>
> Show respect for others.
>
> Recognize a person’s right to advocate ideas that are different from your
> own.
>
> Discuss policies and ideas without attacking people.
>
> Use helpful, not hurtful language.
>
> Write as you would like to be written to.
>
> Restate ideas when asked.
>
> Write in good faith.
>
> Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.
>
> Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.
>
> When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.
>
> Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may
> be different.
>
> Recognize that people can agree to disagree.
>
> Speak and write for yourself, not others.
>
>
>
> ---
>
> IV. Forbidden
>
> The following are forbidden:
>
> Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)
>
> References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly
> within the context of a historical discussion, with citations given, unless the
> material is a matter of common knowledge
>
> Links to external websites or files which contain material that might
> reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.
>
>
>
> Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those
> beliefs, is off limits.
>
>
>
> This edict takes effect immediately.
>
>
> Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
> Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
> a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
> M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS--PUB-MEMM-ALBUCIVS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63579 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,

If in fact Nova Roma was not compliant with Maine law, then the lawsuit would rectify this. If you want Nova Roma to be incorporated then compliance with macro law is a necessity; but, not only compliance, but the willingness to be exposed to macronational judicial procedures. If one doesn't want this, then Nova Roma should not be incorporated.

Now, if the "essential" Nova Roma is something far beyond the corporation, then the corporation can vaporize tomorrow, either willingly or under Maine's judicial fist, and Nova Roma would still be here. The Yahoo lists would remain, the members would continue their conversations, local meetings would continue, the religio would survive.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> gualterus_graecus wrote:
> > [...] [Lots of stuff] [...]
>
> Salve,
>
> What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
> and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?
>
> So they are trying to use, or at least threatening with using, an
> outside force to cause harm to the republic. "Traitor" does indeed
> depend on seeing the res publica as something more than a corporation.
>
> And we are not discussing a corporation. If we were, I would have
> nothing to say about Sulla's and Cato's actions. Except that they really
> ought to be fired.
>
> Nova Roma is not and has never been an attempt to create yet another US
> corporation. We are an attempt to recreate an actual republic. Sulla's
> and Cato's actions, or threat of actions, endanger that attempt.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63580 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Salve!

The formatting on your edict made it impossible to read, at least on
this end.

Could you please re-post it in plain text?

Many thanks,

Flavius Vedius

Publius Memmius Albucius wrote:
>
>
> Omnibus s.d.
>
> Please find below my edictum 62-03.
>
>
> Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> praetor
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63581 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C
Salve Pauline,
this is a small miracle, considering the amount of purposeful and deceitful work of discrediting Nova Roma that's going on at the hands of Sulla, Cato, and Caesar.

If their aim was to kill Nova Roma, they only succeeded by half so far. Of course they won't stop trying.

Vale,
Livia

>
>
> Salvete
>
> FYI
>
> As of today we have 106 Nova Roman taxpayers. This is less than half of what we usually have.
> There are sill 11 days left before the deadline to pay, on time, for this year.
>
> Valete
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63582 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Q. Valerius Poplicola wrote:
> Well, if you don't do illegal things, no one would have a motive to sue.
> Follow the law and all will be fine. How is that too hard for you to
> comprehend?
>

The corporation *IS* doing things legally, as our CFO has tried time and
again to explain in the clearest of terms. That doesn't mean a court
process wouldn't hurt, at least financially.

Internally, Cato does NOT have the right to force a vote of no
confidence, or whatever the term is. Nova Roma's internal laws provide
no such options for a private citizen - which is why he is threatening
with going outside them.

/Pius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63583 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve
 
Why do you care Octavius Pius, as you are no longer a citizen.  Don't you remember, you resigned your citizenship along with your senate seat.  There is no record of you in the Album Civum.
 
Agrippa

--- On Sun, 4/19/09, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...> wrote:
From: gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 5:12 PM


Salve,

If in fact Nova Roma was not compliant with Maine law, then the lawsuit would rectify this. If you want Nova Roma to be incorporated then compliance with macro law is a necessity; but, not only compliance, but the willingness to be exposed to macronational judicial procedures. If one doesn't want this, then Nova Roma should not be incorporated.

Now, if the "essential" Nova Roma is something far beyond the corporation, then the corporation can vaporize tomorrow, either willingly or under Maine's judicial fist, and Nova Roma would still be here. The Yahoo lists would remain, the members would continue their conversations, local meetings would continue, the religio would survive.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> gualterus_graecus wrote:
> > [...] [Lots of stuff] [...]
>
> Salve,
>
> What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
> and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?
>
> So they are trying to use, or at least threatening with using, an
> outside force to cause harm to the republic. "Traitor" does indeed
> depend on seeing the res publica as something more than a corporation.
>
> And we are not discussing a corporation. If we were, I would have
> nothing to say about Sulla's and Cato's actions. Except that they really
> ought to be fired.
>
> Nova Roma is not and has never been an attempt to create yet another US
> corporation. We are an attempt to recreate an actual republic. Sulla's
> and Cato's actions, or threat of actions, endanger that attempt.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63584 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Matt Hucke wrote:
>> What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
>> and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?
>>
>
> The removal of power-drunk magistrates who are unconstitutionally censoring political
> speech they disagree with: yes, that is something positive.
>
> Why do you assume it is negative?
>

Salve, Marce Octavi Gracche.

Because, power-drunk or not (I don't believe they are), they are Nova
Roma's legally elected magistrates. Going outside of Nova Roma's laws to
nullify the vote of the people is "less than good". Treasonous, if you
ask me.

Vale, Pius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63585 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Poplicolae s.d.

> This is unconstitutional.

The text says "as far as they are concerned" and "relevant", amice.
:-)


Vale,


Albucius pr.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
>
> "Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned, enforce
> the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and
> in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists."
>
> This is unconstitutional.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:37 PM
> To: <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>; <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>;
> <novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "Gnaeus Equitius Marinius" <gawne@...>; "Liste préteurs"
> <praetores@yahoogroups.com>; "Marcus Curiatius Complutensis"
> <complutensis@...>; "Marcus Iulius Severus"
> <marcusiuliusseverus@...>; "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus"
> <christer.edling@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
>
> >
> > Omnibus s.d.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please find below my edictum 62-03.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >
> > praetor
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the application of
> > lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)
> >
> > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the
> > constitution, the laws and
> > the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;
> > In view of :
> >
> >
> > the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;
> >
> > the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and lex
> > Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which
> > provides that "Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not
> > present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall
> > create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar
> > situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the
> > praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial edictum.
> > Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede
> > iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous iurisprudentia
> > through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such a
> > course of action is necessary." ;
> >
> >
> > Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi on
> > dies nefasti;
> > Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen of
> > Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and
> > transparent access to Novaroman justice;
> >
> > edict :
> >
> > Article 1
> > The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed by
> > former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by the
> > rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor Memmius
> > may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..
> >
> > Article 2
> >
> > In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws, Pr.
> > Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the interpretation
> > and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:
> > - mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues
> > - general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of
> > proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the United
> > Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the
> > Ancient Roman law;
> > - ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or custom
> > rules.
> >
> > No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules,
> > that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of "useful
> > effect", which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to
> > issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate
> > reasoning.
> >
> >
> > Article 3
> > The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be
> > treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently rules
> > Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the
> > Constitution.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Article 4
> > In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova Roma
> > penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as necessary
> > and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules
> > which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification of
> > the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included the
> > case of proceedings in absentia.
> >
> > Article 5
> >
> > Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned, enforce
> > the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae
> > and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.
> >
> > Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (20th
> > January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis and
> > M. Iulius Severus.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger !
> > Téléchargez-le maintenant !
> > http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63586 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve Pius,
 
How is it that you, a former citizen, seem to have more rights to post to this forum than Senators of Nova Roma?
 
Vale
 
Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: canadaoccidentalis@...
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:43:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Salve
 
If the moderation is an ongoing policy, then my intercessio applies at any time.  I thought you resigned anyway.
 
Agrippa

--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Kristoffer From <from@darkeye. net> wrote:
From: Kristoffer From <from@darkeye. net>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Received: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 2:22 PM

Salve3, Gai Vipsani.

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> I have receive a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

Not issued within the proper timeframe, so invaild, sorry.

> [...] Cornelius Sulla Felix is no threat to Nova Roma.
That is an outright lie. He has threatened and continue to threaten the
res publica and her inner workings time and time again. Whether he
claims it to be "for her own good" is irrelevant.

Vale, Pius.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63587 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Intercessio (?)
Salve Tribune !

I have just answered to you through the normal channel (privately) on your two messages below :

- 63518 on your "grant [of] intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix."
- 63522 on the "removal of moderation of Q. Valerius Poplicola",


As I have just begun my NR working day after this nefastus publicus off-day, at least for the ones among us who try to respect our Religious calendar, and as I have been, since an hour, pretty busy in checking the abundant activity led in our various fora during this nefastus publicus dies, I have missed your third message below, number 63544.

Could you please first read my direct letter, then see, afterwards, if your message 63544 is necessary, regarding the 63518 and 63522, and whether it would not need some specifications, for example, on which edictum you are vetoing?

Thanks a lot et vale Agrippa.


p.s. : I cc. this message to you privately, as usual.


P. Memmius Albucius
praetor


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa <canadaoccidentalis@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius. This has been requested by Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix and Senator Gaius Equitius Cato.
>
> The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
>
> "The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility"
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
> Tribune of the Plebs
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63588 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
LOL, the CFO looked into only some of the matters, and only the financial
ones. We are still without elections, which is illegal, the Praetores are
still illegally moderating citizens and deleting Cato's posts, etc.. etc...
the list has been getting longer and longer as the days go on.

As Gualterus said, if the incorporation is such a poo poo, then why not kill
it and keep Nova Roma alive virtually?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:13 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

> Q. Valerius Poplicola wrote:
>> Well, if you don't do illegal things, no one would have a motive to sue.
>> Follow the law and all will be fine. How is that too hard for you to
>> comprehend?
>>
>
> The corporation *IS* doing things legally, as our CFO has tried time and
> again to explain in the clearest of terms. That doesn't mean a court
> process wouldn't hurt, at least financially.
>
> Internally, Cato does NOT have the right to force a vote of no
> confidence, or whatever the term is. Nova Roma's internal laws provide
> no such options for a private citizen - which is why he is threatening
> with going outside them.
>
> /Pius
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63589 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Cato Pio sal.

Salve!

"Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. " - Constitution of Nova Roma IV.A

So the Constitution recognizes the right of the comitia to remove magistrates. Internally.

As a private citizen, I have called upon the consuls - the magistrates given the authority internally to call the comitia centuriata to order so that they may vote under this clause in the Constitution.

Are you suggesting, Pius, that the res publica should allow magistrates to run rampant leaving the citizens no recourse under law? If you are, you are most certainly - thank the Gods - wrong.

Vale,

Cato

P.S. - this is not a vote of "no confidence". This is a vote for REMOVAL. GEC


> Internally, Cato does NOT have the right to force a vote of no
> confidence, or whatever the term is. Nova Roma's internal laws provide
> no such options for a private citizen - which is why he is threatening
> with going outside them.
>
> /Pius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63590 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
If I were you, Livia, I'd watch out for thunderbolts.


> Probably I'd better not tell him until after the ritual, or maybe we >should somewhow modify the ritual to exclude the warmongers from the >benevolence of Juppiter.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63591 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve Cato

It's not blackmail.

Blackmail (n) - any payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of injurious revelations or accusations.

Asking someone to comply with the law and telling them that further action will be taken if they do not, action which will compel them to comply with the law, is not blackmail. Do you consider final notices from creditors to be blackmail too?

Vale,

Cicero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Catoni sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Ummm...no.
>
> I have asked that the consuls make provision in the already scheduled elections (the ones in which you are seeking a curule magistracy) for the comitia centurita to vote. ONLY if they refuse - only if, presented with the law, they refuse to obey it - will I submit us to the appropriate judicial process under US law.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@> wrote:
> >
> > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
> >
> > It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
> > "
> > If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."
> >
> > 1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
> > 2nd. If they don't, you will force it.
> >
> > This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Di te incolumem custodiant.
> >
> > L. Coruncanius Cato
> >
> > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63592 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,

First "traitors" and now "Treasonous"? Do you really believe Nova Roma is some sort of sovereign nation? Where is our land? Where is our army? Sorry, applying such language to members of a community that only exists as a corporation and religious/cultural union brings to mind a certain three letter acronym: R.P.G.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Matt Hucke wrote:
> >> What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
> >> and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?
> >>
> >
> > The removal of power-drunk magistrates who are unconstitutionally censoring political
> > speech they disagree with: yes, that is something positive.
> >
> > Why do you assume it is negative?
> >
>
> Salve, Marce Octavi Gracche.
>
> Because, power-drunk or not (I don't believe they are), they are Nova
> Roma's legally elected magistrates. Going outside of Nova Roma's laws to
> nullify the vote of the people is "less than good". Treasonous, if you
> ask me.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63593 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,
 
Here I disagree. There are no destructive laws. The purpose of laws is protection from abuse. If we have placed ourselves in a position to lose a legal battle, that is not outside forces harming our republic, that is our own actions leading to us being our of touch with established laws. If NR was behaving as it should, there would be no problem. The US legal system can't be 'used' for anything at all. It is created to ensure justice. So if our actions so far are beyond reproach, we have nothing to worry about it. If they aren't, to blame it on Sulla and Cato is foolish.
 
Nova Roma is not an attempt to create another US corporation, it IS another US corporation. We want to be a republic. A republic is sovereign. We are not. For the time being, it is our duty to behave within the laws of our host nation. If we do not, it is not the fault of those who bring the host nation's laws to bear upon us, it is our own for giving them cause to.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

gualterus_graecus wrote:

> [...] [Lots of stuff]
[...]

Salve,

What do you imagine would be the consequences for Nova Roma if Sulla
and/or Cato used the US legal system against Nova Roma? Something positive?

So they are trying to use, or at least threatening with using, an
outside force to cause harm to the republic. "Traitor" does indeed
depend on seeing the res publica as something more than a corporation.

And we are not discussing a corporation. If we were, I would have
nothing to say about Sulla's and Cato's actions. Except that they really
ought to be fired.

Nova Roma is not and has never been an attempt to create yet another US
corporation. We are an attempt to recreate an actual republic. Sulla's
and Cato's actions, or threat of actions, endanger that attempt.

Vale, Pius.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63594 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Resignation
L. Livia Plauta quiritibus S.P.D.

I'm afraid Laenas is no longere here to read this, but I want to say that I too am sorry for the departure of a reasonable, correct, reliable citize, senator and censor.

Unfortunately, I can understand completely his reasons for leaving, and I can't blame him.

Valete omnes,
Livia

>
> Salvete Senatores et Quirites,
>
>
>
> I hereby resign my positions as Senator, Censor, and Lictor in Nova Roma.
>
>
>
> I also resign from the Board of Directors and as Board Secretary of Nova
> Roma, Inc.
>
>
>
> I resign my citizenship in Nova Roma and that of my minor daughter,
> Alexandra Popillia.
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
>
>
> Gaius Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63595 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Then it is poor English and should be re-written and re-posted.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:20 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria

> Poplicolae s.d.
>
>> This is unconstitutional.
>
> The text says "as far as they are concerned" and "relevant", amice.
> :-)
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
> Albucius pr.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
> <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
>>
>> "Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
>> enforce
>> the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae
>> and
>> in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists."
>>
>> This is unconstitutional.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:37 PM
>> To: <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>; <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>;
>> <novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com>
>> Cc: "Gnaeus Equitius Marinius" <gawne@...>; "Liste préteurs"
>> <praetores@yahoogroups.com>; "Marcus Curiatius Complutensis"
>> <complutensis@...>; "Marcus Iulius Severus"
>> <marcusiuliusseverus@...>; "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus"
>> <christer.edling@...>
>> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
>>
>> >
>> > Omnibus s.d.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Please find below my edictum 62-03.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > P. Memmius Albucius
>> >
>> > praetor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the application
>> > of
>> > lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)
>> >
>> > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the
>> > constitution, the laws and
>> > the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;
>> > In view of :
>> >
>> >
>> > the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;
>> >
>> > the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and
>> > lex
>> > Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which
>> > provides that "Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not
>> > present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall
>> > create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar
>> > situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the
>> > praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial edictum.
>> > Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede
>> > iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous iurisprudentia
>> > through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such a
>> > course of action is necessary." ;
>> >
>> >
>> > Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi on
>> > dies nefasti;
>> > Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen of
>> > Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and
>> > transparent access to Novaroman justice;
>> >
>> > edict :
>> >
>> > Article 1
>> > The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed
>> > by
>> > former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by
>> > the
>> > rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor
>> > Memmius
>> > may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..
>> >
>> > Article 2
>> >
>> > In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws,
>> > Pr.
>> > Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the
>> > interpretation
>> > and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:
>> > - mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues
>> > - general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of
>> > proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the United
>> > Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the
>> > Ancient Roman law;
>> > - ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or
>> > custom
>> > rules.
>> >
>> > No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules,
>> > that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of "useful
>> > effect", which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to
>> > issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate
>> > reasoning.
>> >
>> >
>> > Article 3
>> > The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be
>> > treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently
>> > rules
>> > Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the
>> > Constitution.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Article 4
>> > In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova
>> > Roma
>> > penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as
>> > necessary
>> > and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules
>> > which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification
>> > of
>> > the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included
>> > the
>> > case of proceedings in absentia.
>> >
>> > Article 5
>> >
>> > Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
>> > enforce
>> > the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae
>> > Romae
>> > and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.
>> >
>> > Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (20th
>> > January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis
>> > and
>> > M. Iulius Severus.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger
>> > !
>> > Téléchargez-le maintenant !
>> > http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
>>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63596 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

And this was precisely what I asked weeks ago to Senator Sulla and Tribune Galerius. None had restated anything.

By the way, I higlighted a few lines more.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> escribió:
De: Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:09

L. C. Cato,

 

Nice try! But the line you highlight in the Edictum de Sermone doesn’t mean that the praetors or their scribes can stop a citizen’s message and ask them to restate it. It means that. If a citizen posts something, and I do nto understand it, that citizen should “restate ideas”.

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Lucius Coruncanius Cato
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:59 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE

 




Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this Edictum...

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com > escribió:

De: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Para : Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00

Ex officio praetorum:



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II. Topics of discussion



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Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such

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---



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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63597 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
> Salve, Marce Octavi Gracche.
>
> Because, power-drunk or not (I don't believe they are), they are Nova
> Roma's legally elected magistrates. Going outside of Nova Roma's laws to
> nullify the vote of the people is "less than good". Treasonous, if you
> ask me.

That's like saying the CEO of Enron was legally hired for his position,
therefore his decisions must be correct, and "blowing the whistle" on him
was treason.

I do not, and never will, accept that line of thinking. Those who exposed
corporate wrongdoing at Enron, MCI, and Arthur Andersen are heroes, not
traitors.

The laws of the United States, and individual states within, overrule the
internal rules of any corporation, club, organization, or what-have-you
incorporated therein. If you want to disregard these rules you'll need
plenty of barbed wire and guns to fortify your compound.

Those laws state that directors may be removed by vote of the members. Cato
is within his rights to demand such a vote.

As for "treason", that's a word that's been abused much in recent years. After
years of hearing it bloviated by Fox-News blowhards about any dissent, I find
it hard to take seriously any person who accuses anyone of "treason". Recall
the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Vale, M. Octavius Gracchus.
posted at 18:30 CDT


--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63598 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Poplicolae s.d.

> Then it is poor English

Is it really ? Sorry for that :-(

>and should be re-written and re-posted.

I am open to every suggestion. Do not hesitate. You have my address.

Thanks and vale,


Albucius pr.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
>
> Then it is poor English and should be re-written and re-posted.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:20 PM
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
>
> > Poplicolae s.d.
> >
> >> This is unconstitutional.
> >
> > The text says "as far as they are concerned" and "relevant", amice.
> > :-)
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> >
> > Albucius pr.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
> > <q.valerius.poplicola@> wrote:
> >>
> >> "Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
> >> enforce
> >> the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae
> >> and
> >> in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists."
> >>
> >> This is unconstitutional.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:37 PM
> >> To: <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>; <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>;
> >> <novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Cc: "Gnaeus Equitius Marinius" <gawne@>; "Liste préteurs"
> >> <praetores@yahoogroups.com>; "Marcus Curiatius Complutensis"
> >> <complutensis@>; "Marcus Iulius Severus"
> >> <marcusiuliusseverus@>; "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus"
> >> <christer.edling@>
> >> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Omnibus s.d.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Please find below my edictum 62-03.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >> >
> >> > praetor
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the application
> >> > of
> >> > lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)
> >> >
> >> > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the
> >> > constitution, the laws and
> >> > the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;
> >> > In view of :
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;
> >> >
> >> > the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and
> >> > lex
> >> > Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which
> >> > provides that "Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not
> >> > present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall
> >> > create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar
> >> > situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the
> >> > praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial edictum.
> >> > Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede
> >> > iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous iurisprudentia
> >> > through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such a
> >> > course of action is necessary." ;
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi on
> >> > dies nefasti;
> >> > Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen of
> >> > Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and
> >> > transparent access to Novaroman justice;
> >> >
> >> > edict :
> >> >
> >> > Article 1
> >> > The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed
> >> > by
> >> > former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by
> >> > the
> >> > rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor
> >> > Memmius
> >> > may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..
> >> >
> >> > Article 2
> >> >
> >> > In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws,
> >> > Pr.
> >> > Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the
> >> > interpretation
> >> > and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:
> >> > - mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues
> >> > - general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of
> >> > proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the United
> >> > Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the
> >> > Ancient Roman law;
> >> > - ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or
> >> > custom
> >> > rules.
> >> >
> >> > No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules,
> >> > that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of "useful
> >> > effect", which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to
> >> > issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate
> >> > reasoning.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Article 3
> >> > The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be
> >> > treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently
> >> > rules
> >> > Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the
> >> > Constitution.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Article 4
> >> > In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova
> >> > Roma
> >> > penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as
> >> > necessary
> >> > and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules
> >> > which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification
> >> > of
> >> > the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included
> >> > the
> >> > case of proceedings in absentia.
> >> >
> >> > Article 5
> >> >
> >> > Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
> >> > enforce
> >> > the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae
> >> > Romae
> >> > and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.
> >> >
> >> > Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (20th
> >> > January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis
> >> > and
> >> > M. Iulius Severus.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger
> >> > !
> >> > Téléchargez-le maintenant !
> >> > http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63599 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,
 
I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
 
If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
 
Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
" If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63600 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: A few words more. . .
Avete Omnes;

(Dinner's over.)

Back in December I started feeling better and was paying more
attention to Nova Roma.

Upon witnessing some argument or another about something, which is no
longer important, but at the time had folks in a similar uproar to
what we are seeing now, I sent a "tongue in cheek" post to the Back
Alley. It outlined part of my campaign platform for running for
Dictator, which in its face is quite silly.

Nonetheless, I think my campaign slogans (a bit edited for better
composition) might be words one and all can look at, take a deep
breath over and step away from the computer for a bit and think of
what we are trying to build, and how we can approach things better.

His mottoes: "Fewer Laws, more justice!"
"Do that which is Right, for the Commonweal!"
"We must strive to thrive, not merely survive!"
"One can be profane without profanity."
"Liberty and responsibility, 2 sides of the same coin."
"We must be careful in how we succeed."

His personal definition of relationships: "Tolerance is not
acceptance, courtesy is not respect, friendliness is not friendship;
everyone is due the former of each pair as a matter of course, unless
disdain, disregard and ambivalence have been earned. The latter of
each pair must be given, only upon the decision of the giver that such
is warrrented."

"Ignorance is not stupidity: knowledge is the cure for the former and
only death ends the latter."

"Silence is not acquiescence, it often times the indicator of indifference."

His Credo: "If you do not agree with me, give me reasons and
information, not feelings and suppositions, we can discuss things; but
make it about ideas, ideas, ideas!"

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
and NOT a candidate for anything other than what he is.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63601 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Cato Coruncanio (it was getting confusing) sal.

Salve!

OK. Those are great. Now, Coruncanius, explain to me EXACTLY how the following message violated a single one of those lines:

_____________________________________________________________________

Cato Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve!

Albucius, I honestly think that your heart is in the right place here, but the concept of vetting topics for their subject lines based solely on different translations or usage in different languages is utterly impossible given the international scope of our citizenry.

This is waaaaay over the edge censorship-wise.

I am *not* making this a personality issue, and I reject any attempt by anyone to make it one. As I said, I truly understand the thought behind this reasoning, but I must object in the strongest terms possible.

Your own edictum de sermone makes no mention whatsoever of this kind of thing, and it violates both the spirit and the letter of the Constitutional right to free speech. If you moderate based on the subject line, you are violating the rights of our citizens.

Vale,

Cato

_____________________________________________________________________


EXACTLY where did this post violate the edict?

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> And this was precisely what I asked weeks ago to Senator Sulla and Tribune Galerius. None had restated anything.
>
> By the way, I higlighted a few lines more.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> escribió:
> De: Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
> Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:09
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> L. C. Cato,
>
>  
>
> Nice try! But the line you highlight in
> the Edictum de Sermone doesn’t mean that the praetors or their scribes can stop
> a citizen’s message and ask them to restate it. It means that. If a citizen
> posts something, and I do nto understand it, that citizen should “restate ideas”.
>
>  
>
> Potitus
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:59
> PM
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] File -
> EDICTUM DE SERMONE
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
>
>
> May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal
> moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this
> Edictum...
>
>
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
>
>
> --- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
> escribió:
> De: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
>
> Para : Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00
> Ex officio praetorum:
>
>
>
> The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.  
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome.  All
>
> users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to
>
> the Nova Roma mailing list.  Violations of these rules will result in corrective
>
> action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction
>
> of posting privileges for citizens.
>
>
>
>  
>
> ---
>
>
>
> I. Language
>
>
>
> Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official
>
> ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must
>
> be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the
>
> Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English,
>
> French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write
>
> your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for
>
> some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as
>
> whatever vernacular languages are relevant.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> II. Topics of discussion
>
>
>
> Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and other  state
>
> activities
>
>
>
> The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and
>
> philosophy of  Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece , the ancient Near East, and other
>
> cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.
>
>
>
> Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such
>
> digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this
>
> kind must be clearly marked as “off topic”.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> III. Civil Discourse
>
>
>
> All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will  follow
>
> these rules of civil discourse:
>
>
>
> Show respect for others.
>
>
>
> Recognize a person’s right to advocate ideas that are different from your
>
> own.
>
>
>
> Discuss policies and ideas without attacking people.
>
>
>
> Use helpful, not hurtful language.
>
>
>
> Write as you would like to be written to.
>
>
>
> Restate ideas when asked.
>
>
>
> Write in good faith.
>
>
>
> Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.
>
>
>
> Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.
>
>
>
> When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.
>
>
>
> Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may
>
> be different.
>
>
>
> Recognize that people can agree to disagree.
>
>
>
> Speak and write for yourself, not others.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> IV. Forbidden
>
>
>
> The following are forbidden:
>
>
>
> Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)
>
>
>
> References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly
>
> within  the context of a historical discussion, with citations given, unless the
>
>  material is a matter of common knowledge
>
>
>
> Links to external websites or files which contain material that might
>
> reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those
>
> beliefs, is off limits.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> This edict takes effect immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
>
> Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
>
> a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
>
> M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.
>
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS- -PUB-MEMM- ALBUCIVS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/
>
>
>
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
>
>
>     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/join
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>     mailto:Nova- Roma-digest@ yahoogroups. com
>
>     mailto:Nova- Roma-fullfeature d@yahoogroups. com
>
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
>
>
>
>     http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
>
>
>
>  
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63602 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Equitius Cato IS blackmailing the Consuls, the Praetores the Tribunis the cives and the corporation. And you are, as usual, trying to circumvent a fact with rethoric. Nice try.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> escribió:
De: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:07

Salve Cato

It's not blackmail.

Blackmail (n) - any payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of injurious revelations or accusations.

Asking someone to comply with the law and telling them that further action will be taken if they do not, action which will compel them to comply with the law, is not blackmail. Do you consider final notices from creditors to be blackmail too?

Vale,

Cicero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@.. .> wrote:
>
> Cato Catoni sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Ummm...no.
>
> I have asked that the consuls make provision in the already scheduled elections (the ones in which you are seeking a curule magistracy) for the comitia centurita to vote. ONLY if they refuse - only if, presented with the law, they refuse to obey it - will I submit us to the appropriate judicial process under US law.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@> wrote:
> >
> > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
> >
> > It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
> > "
> > If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."
> >
> > 1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
> > 2nd. If they don't, you will force it.
> >
> > This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Di te incolumem custodiant.
> >
> > L. Coruncanius Cato
> >
> > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63603 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Absolutely, I will look over it and send you what I do not understand and
what I think should be changed.

Poplicola

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:38 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria

> Poplicolae s.d.
>
>> Then it is poor English
>
> Is it really ? Sorry for that :-(
>
>>and should be re-written and re-posted.
>
> I am open to every suggestion. Do not hesitate. You have my address.
>
> Thanks and vale,
>
>
> Albucius pr.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
> <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
>>
>> Then it is poor English and should be re-written and re-posted.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:20 PM
>> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
>>
>> > Poplicolae s.d.
>> >
>> >> This is unconstitutional.
>> >
>> > The text says "as far as they are concerned" and "relevant", amice.
>> > :-)
>> >
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> >
>> > Albucius pr.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
>> > <q.valerius.poplicola@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
>> >> enforce
>> >> the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae
>> >> Romae
>> >> and
>> >> in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists."
>> >>
>> >> This is unconstitutional.
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> From: "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:37 PM
>> >> To: <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>; <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>;
>> >> <novaromatribunalis@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> Cc: "Gnaeus Equitius Marinius" <gawne@>; "Liste préteurs"
>> >> <praetores@yahoogroups.com>; "Marcus Curiatius Complutensis"
>> >> <complutensis@>; "Marcus Iulius Severus"
>> >> <marcusiuliusseverus@>; "Caeso Fabius Quintilianus"
>> >> <christer.edling@>
>> >> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Omnibus s.d.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Please find below my edictum 62-03.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for your attention, and valete omnes.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P. Memmius Albucius
>> >> >
>> >> > praetor
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------beginning----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS praetor edict PR 62-03 concerning the
>> >> > application
>> >> > of
>> >> > lex Salicia iudicaria (de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria)
>> >> >
>> >> > I, Publius Memmius Albucius, praetor, by the authority vested by the
>> >> > constitution, the laws and
>> >> > the Senate of Nova Roma, and in view of the existing rules ;
>> >> > In view of :
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > the Constitution of Nova Roma, especially its article IV, A.3;
>> >> >
>> >> > the laws of Nova Roma, especially lex Arminia Equitia de imperio and
>> >> > lex
>> >> > Salicia iudicaria, and especially of its pars secunda, VI, B, which
>> >> > provides that "Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not
>> >> > present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor
>> >> > shall
>> >> > create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to all similar
>> >> > situations. Iurisprudentia is an expression of the imperium of the
>> >> > praetor, and it has the same legislative power as a praetorial
>> >> > edictum.
>> >> > Because of this, laws approved by the Comitia shall always supersede
>> >> > iurisprudentia, and a certain praetor can alter previous
>> >> > iurisprudentia
>> >> > through an official edictum whenever common sense dictates that such
>> >> > a
>> >> > course of action is necessary." ;
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Considering that the Roman magistrates are allowed the ius edicendi
>> >> > on
>> >> > dies nefasti;
>> >> > Considering that the imperative necessity to guarantee every citizen
>> >> > of
>> >> > Nova Roma, whatever their status, order or qualities, an equal and
>> >> > transparent access to Novaroman justice;
>> >> >
>> >> > edict :
>> >> >
>> >> > Article 1
>> >> > The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or
>> >> > developed
>> >> > by
>> >> > former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules,
>> >> > by
>> >> > the
>> >> > rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor
>> >> > Memmius
>> >> > may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c..
>> >> >
>> >> > Article 2
>> >> >
>> >> > In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws,
>> >> > Pr.
>> >> > Memmius will, in the frame of his imperium, apply, in the
>> >> > interpretation
>> >> > and implementation of the Nova Roma legal system, the:
>> >> > - mos maiorum, including custom laws and roman virtues
>> >> > - general principles of law ('GPL') and the general principles of
>> >> > proceeding law, as currently shared by the States members of the
>> >> > United
>> >> > Nations and taught in Law schools, as common rules derived from the
>> >> > Ancient Roman law;
>> >> > - ancient Roman republican laws as well as ancient proceedings or
>> >> > custom
>> >> > rules.
>> >> >
>> >> > No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these
>> >> > rules,
>> >> > that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of "useful
>> >> > effect", which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order
>> >> > to
>> >> > issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate
>> >> > reasoning.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Article 3
>> >> > The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will
>> >> > be
>> >> > treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently
>> >> > rules
>> >> > Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of
>> >> > the
>> >> > Constitution.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Article 4
>> >> > In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according
>> >> > Nova
>> >> > Roma
>> >> > penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as
>> >> > necessary
>> >> > and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the
>> >> > rules
>> >> > which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the
>> >> > notification
>> >> > of
>> >> > the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included
>> >> > the
>> >> > case of proceedings in absentia.
>> >> >
>> >> > Article 5
>> >> >
>> >> > Every novaroman public officer must, as far as they are concerned,
>> >> > enforce
>> >> > the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae
>> >> > Romae
>> >> > and in Nova Roma relevant internet discussion lists.
>> >> >
>> >> > Issued in Condate, Gallia, a.d. XII Kal. Maias MMDCCLXII a.u.c.
>> >> > (20th
>> >> > January 2009 c.c.) during the consulate of M. Curiatius Complutensis
>> >> > and
>> >> > M. Iulius Severus.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----------------------------------------------------end----------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live
>> >> > Messenger
>> >> > !
>> >> > Téléchargez-le maintenant !
>> >> > http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63604 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Q. Poplicola L. Catoni S.P.D.

Please show how what Equitius Cato is doing is tantamount to blackmail? When
a cop says, "Put the gun down or we'll shoot" or a judge says "Follow the
rules or I'll jail you" - are those examples of blackmail? Thanks for the
clarifications.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:40 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> Equitius Cato IS blackmailing the Consuls, the Praetores the Tribunis the
> cives and the corporation. And you are, as usual, trying to circumvent a
> fact with rethoric. Nice try.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> escribió:
> De: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:07
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Cato
>
>
>
> It's not blackmail.
>
>
>
> Blackmail (n) - any payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of
> injurious revelations or accusations.
>
>
>
> Asking someone to comply with the law and telling them that further action
> will be taken if they do not, action which will compel them to comply with
> the law, is not blackmail. Do you consider final notices from creditors to
> be blackmail too?
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> Cicero
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@.. .>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Cato Catoni sal.
>
>>
>
>> Salve.
>
>>
>
>> Ummm...no.
>
>>
>
>> I have asked that the consuls make provision in the already scheduled
>> elections (the ones in which you are seeking a curule magistracy) for the
>> comitia centurita to vote. ONLY if they refuse - only if, presented with
>> the law, they refuse to obey it - will I submit us to the appropriate
>> judicial process under US law.
>
>>
>
>> Vale,
>
>>
>
>> Cato
>
>>
>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>> <l.coruncanius_ cato@> wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
>> >
>
>> > It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
>
>> > "
>
>> > If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a
>> > vote."
>
>> >
>
>> > 1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
>
>> > 2nd. If they don't, you will force it.
>
>> >
>
>> > This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.
>
>> >
>
>> > --
>
>> >
>
>> > Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
>> >
>
>> > L. Coruncanius Cato
>
>> >
>
>> > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63605 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63606 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I thank you for your answer. It's hard to find someone who speaks sense and quiet these weeks. :)

But, I must stand within my position. Equitius Cato has NOT the right to call for a vote to remove any magistrate, because the current constitution says, in Chap. IV A:
"Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him."

As far as I know, a citizen's "call for a vote against a magistrate" it's not a "law originating in the comitia". And because of this, if Equitius Cato says "if I don't hear about you I will force the vote" is, here and everywhere and despite of useless rethoric, blackmail.

If Equitius Cato would have a "courtesy", then he sould do things propperly.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> escribió:
De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:38

Salve,
 
I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
 
If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
 
Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
" If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63607 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Feriae Latinae tomorrow (today in Rome)
YOU watch out!
Juppiter likes us!


>
> If I were you, Livia, I'd watch out for thunderbolts.
>
>
> > Probably I'd better not tell him until after the ritual, or maybe we >should somewhow modify the ritual to exclude the warmongers from the >benevolence of Juppiter.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63608 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I'm pretty sure that Praetor Albucius had a reason to moderate some of your earlier posts. If you cross a line, then you should accept consequences. I do.
Nice try.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:39

Cato Coruncanio (it was getting confusing) sal.

Salve!

OK. Those are great. Now, Coruncanius, explain to me EXACTLY how the following message violated a single one of those lines:

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Cato Memmio Albucio sal.

Salve!

Albucius, I honestly think that your heart is in the right place here, but the concept of vetting topics for their subject lines based solely on different translations or usage in different languages is utterly impossible given the international scope of our citizenry.

This is waaaaay over the edge censorship-wise.

I am *not* making this a personality issue, and I reject any attempt by anyone to make it one. As I said, I truly understand the thought behind this reasoning, but I must object in the strongest terms possible.

Your own edictum de sermone makes no mention whatsoever of this kind of thing, and it violates both the spirit and the letter of the Constitutional right to free speech. If you moderate based on the subject line, you are violating the rights of our citizens.

Vale,

Cato

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

EXACTLY where did this post violate the edict?

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> And this was precisely what I asked weeks ago to Senator Sulla and Tribune Galerius. None had restated anything.
>
> By the way, I higlighted a few lines more.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Steve Moore <astrobear@. ..> escribió:
> De: Steve Moore <astrobear@. ..>
> Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:09
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> L. C. Cato,
>
>  
>
> Nice try! But the line you highlight in
> the Edictum de Sermone doesn’t mean that the praetors or their scribes can stop
> a citizen’s message and ask them to restate it. It means that. If a citizen
> posts something, and I do nto understand it, that citizen should “restate ideas”.
>
>  
>
> Potitus
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:59
> PM
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] File -
> EDICTUM DE SERMONE
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
>
>
> May be some of whom shouts for "free speech", "illegal
> moderation" and "the rule of law" should (must?) read this
> Edictum...
>
>
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
>
>
> --- El dom, 19/4/09, Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
> escribió:
> De: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com < Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com >
>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
>
> Para : Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 5:00
> Ex officio praetorum:
>
>
>
> The Nova-Roma mailing list is the principal forum for Nova Roma.  
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma and interested non-citizens alike are welcome.  All
>
> users, citizen and non-citizen alike, shall abide by these rules when posting to
>
> the Nova Roma mailing list.  Violations of these rules will result in corrective
>
> action, which may include banning from the list for non-citizens and restriction
>
> of posting privileges for citizens.
>
>
>
>  
>
> ---
>
>
>
> I. Language
>
>
>
> Nova Roma's official business language is English, and its official
>
> ceremonial language is Latin. There are other non-official languages that must
>
> be considered as common use languages, due to the international nature of the
>
> Nova Roman community. To insure timely posting, write your posts in English,
>
> French, German, Hungarian, Italian, Latin, Portuguese or Spanish. If you write
>
> your posts in languages other than the above mentioned, they may be delayed for
>
> some time until the moderators can obtain a translation.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> All official government documents must appear in English/Latin as well as
>
> whatever vernacular languages are relevant.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> II. Topics of discussion
>
>
>
> Nova Roman business, community, governmental, religious, and other  state
>
> activities
>
>
>
> The culture, religion, sociology, politics, history, archaeology, and
>
> philosophy of  Roma Antiqua, ancient Greece , the ancient Near East, and other
>
> cultures with which the ancient Romans interacted.
>
>
>
> Discussions may sometimes go into subjects beyond these topics, but such
>
> digressions should be brief and related to the listed topics. Messages of this
>
> kind must be clearly marked as “off topic”.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> III. Civil Discourse
>
>
>
> All on-list exchanges between users of the Nova-Roma mailing list will  follow
>
> these rules of civil discourse:
>
>
>
> Show respect for others.
>
>
>
> Recognize a person’s right to advocate ideas that are different from your
>
> own.
>
>
>
> Discuss policies and ideas without attacking people.
>
>
>
> Use helpful, not hurtful language.
>
>
>
> Write as you would like to be written to.
>
>
>
> Restate ideas when asked.
>
>
>
> Write in good faith.
>
>
>
> Treat what others have to say as written in good faith.
>
>
>
> Respectfully read and consider differing points of view.
>
>
>
> When unsure, clarify what you think you have read.
>
>
>
> Realize that what you wrote and what people understand you to have written may
>
> be different.
>
>
>
> Recognize that people can agree to disagree.
>
>
>
> Speak and write for yourself, not others.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> IV. Forbidden
>
>
>
> The following are forbidden:
>
>
>
> Unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE or spam)
>
>
>
> References or discussions to material of a sexual nature that are not strictly
>
> within  the context of a historical discussion, with citations given, unless the
>
>  material is a matter of common knowledge
>
>
>
> Links to external websites or files which contain material that might
>
> reasonably be deemed obscene or pornographic.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Insulting the religious beliefs of others, and the historical basis for those
>
> beliefs, is off limits.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> This edict takes effect immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> Continued in effect by Edictum Praetorium 2762-02,
>
> Prorogation of praetorian edicts issued by the praetors for 2761 auc
>
> a.d. XV Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXII a.u.c. (19 Ian. 2009 c.c.)
>
> M. Curiatius Complutensis M. Iulius Severus coss.
>
>
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS- -PUB-MEMM- ALBUCIVS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/
>
>
>
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
>
>
>     http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Nova- Roma/join
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>     mailto:Nova- Roma-digest@ yahoogroups. com
>
>     mailto:Nova- Roma-fullfeature d@yahoogroups. com
>
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
>
>
>
>     http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/
>
>
>
>  
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63609 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salvete Omnes,
 
It is my understanding that this is an unrestricted list.  Before we try an experiment that would remove all moderation for a month, may I suggest (rather strongly) that this list membership be restricted?  Restriction is an excellent first line defense against cyber bottom feeders.
 
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63610 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I will only ask this if Equitius Cato himself makes the question. I will not ask more circumventing rethoric.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escribió:
De: Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:45

Q. Poplicola L. Catoni S.P.D.

Please show how what Equitius Cato is doing is tantamount to blackmail? When
a cop says, "Put the gun down or we'll shoot" or a judge says "Follow the
rules or I'll jail you" - are those examples of blackmail? Thanks for the
clarifications.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:40 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> Equitius Cato IS blackmailing the Consuls, the Praetores the Tribunis the
> cives and the corporation. And you are, as usual, trying to circumvent a
> fact with rethoric. Nice try.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@.... za> escribió:
> De: Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@.... za>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:07
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Cato
>
>
>
> It's not blackmail.
>
>
>
> Blackmail (n) - any payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of
> injurious revelations or accusations.
>
>
>
> Asking someone to comply with the law and telling them that further action
> will be taken if they do not, action which will compel them to comply with
> the law, is not blackmail. Do you consider final notices from creditors to
> be blackmail too?
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> Cicero
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@.. .>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Cato Catoni sal.
>
>>
>
>> Salve.
>
>>
>
>> Ummm...no.
>
>>
>
>> I have asked that the consuls make provision in the already scheduled
>> elections (the ones in which you are seeking a curule magistracy) for the
>> comitia centurita to vote. ONLY if they refuse - only if, presented with
>> the law, they refuse to obey it - will I submit us to the appropriate
>> judicial process under US law.
>
>>
>
>> Vale,
>
>>
>
>> Cato
>
>>
>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>> <l.coruncanius_ cato@> wrote:
>
>> >
>
>> > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
>> >
>
>> > It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
>
>> > "
>
>> > If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a
>> > vote."
>
>> >
>
>> > 1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
>
>> > 2nd. If they don't, you will force it.
>
>> >
>
>> > This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.
>
>> >
>
>> > --
>
>> >
>
>> > Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
>> >
>
>> > L. Coruncanius Cato
>
>> >
>
>> > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63611 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Keep it for citizenry only? I wouldn't mind keeping this list moderated for
those who are not citizens and cannot be restricted, but new citizens should
not be on restriction. After all, they are CITIZENS.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "C. Maria Caeca" <shoshanahathaway@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:03 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my understanding that this is an unrestricted list. Before we try
> an experiment that would remove all moderation for a month, may I suggest
> (rather strongly) that this list membership be restricted? Restriction is
> an excellent first line defense against cyber bottom feeders.
>
> C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63612 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63613 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Wrong restriction. When a Yahoo group is set up, 2 options are available.
Unrestricted means anyone or anything can join, automatically, with no
filters. Restricted means that those wishing to join the group must, among
other things, fill out a very short form, explaining their interest in the
group. SPAM bots can't do that, at least not yet. This doesn't restrict
anyone once they have joined the list, unless the list is set to moderate
new members for a certain period of time. It does, however keep real SPAM
away, like, oh ... advertisements for certain enhancing drugs, money making
opportunities, on line degrees, and such ilk.

C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63614 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: What will you do with the ball ?
Censori Galerio s.d.

Just two words, Pauline.

I have always supported the widest freedom of speech inside our fora and you know it. I also well remember the debate NRomans had in Roma, during the conventus, a few years ago, and that Gn. Equitius Cato and I met on this point.

But I am afraid that the pitiful messages that have been posted during these last weeks (remember the insults against the Vestal Maxima, the Plebeians, etc.) well show us that the adults... really behave like adults i.e. like dignified ones, and less ones.

On the Senate list, you do know my position: we are confusing on one hand the Album senatorium, which should be a specific list in the hands of the censors, and the Senate list, which should be in the hands of the consuls and the tribunes, the ones who can convene the Curia.

It would let us working in the frame of normal sessions, and respect the "right to call the Senate (..) to order" which is given by our Constitution to our consuls. Having a Curia sitting the whole year long is unhistorical and anti-constitutional, for it withdraw to our consuls and tribunes their right controllong their working relation with the Senate.

It is a coup that does not tell its name.

Here, you will say that there is a senatus consultum (SC) that allows that every senator to express her/his opinion at every moment. But you know as I do that every SC must respect our constitution, and the current one does not at all.

As censor, you may change things easily: create your own Album Senatorium list, let the moderation of the Senate list to both tribunes and consuls, and help the consuls to remove this unnecessary SC.

You will see that people will keep on finding other ways to discuss, and far closer to the ancient one. :-)

So: what will you do with the ball ?

Vale Pauline,


Albucius pr.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
>
>
>
> As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
>
> filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
>
>
>
> All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
>
> I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?
>
> --
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
> L. Coruncanius Cato
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...> escribió:
>
> De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38
>
>
>
>
> Salvete
>
> The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?
>
> The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.
>
> Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Censor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@> wrote:
> >
> > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> > >
> > > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> > >
> >
> > Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
> >
> > Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> > constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> > intercessio against the constitution.
> >
> > Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> > further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
> >
> > Vale, Pius.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63615 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Edict praet. de lege agenda Salicia iudicaria
Cato Valerio Policolo sal.

Salve!

Reading it through, it appears that Memmius Albucius has decided that if he cannot find the answer for a legal situation in Nova Roman law, he will use the iurisprudentia clause in the lex Salicia iudiciaria to create the answer, and he will use the following to do so:

1. something he calls "the mos maiorum"
2. the rules that the United Nations use
3. ancient Roman law



Problems:

1. he states that

"The previous iurisprudentiae which may having been created or developed by former praetors of Nova Roma are replaced, as whole body of rules, by the rules defined by the present edictum or by the rules that Praetor Memmius may issue in the frame of a judicial action led in year 2762 a.u.c."

BUT the lex Salicia iudiciaria states clearly that

"Iurisprudentia: in those cases where the laws do not present an explicit treatment of a certain situation, a praetor shall create iurisprudentia (jurisprudence) applicable to *all similar situations*." (lex Sal. iud. VI.B, my emphasis),

so any iurisprudentiae created by previous praetors is held to apply to similar situations and no-one is given the authority to override this clause, not even another praetor. Besides which, if a situation arose and a praetor had already promulgated iurisprudentia regarding it, it no longer falls under the category of a unique "certain situation", so the clause no longer applies.


2. he says that

"No hierarchy will, ab initio and a priori, be set between these rules, that Pr. Memmius will use according the cases and the GPL of 'useful effect', which consists in using the most appropriate rules in order to issue the most appropriate conclusion through the most appropriate reasoning."

which means that if ancient Roman law says one thing and the UN says another, he gets to decide which he thinks is better. But we are a restoration of the Roman Republic, not a model UN. And there is no definition of the ancient Roman "mos maiorum" as a single entity; it evolved over centuries. Which era will he pick?


3. he says that

"The legal questions escaping the scope of the article 2 above will be treated in the frame of the hierarchy of legal norms which currently rules Nova Roma legal system, and which defined in the paragraph I, B of the Constitution."

This may be a question of correct English, but "Article 2" of the edict specifically states that it will be employed "In case of the silence or lack of precision of Nova Roma penal laws". So it doesn't make sense: if there's no answer in Nova Roman law, he will use other laws, but if a question "escapes" all the *other* laws, he will look at...Nova Roman law?


4. he says that

"In the case of the admissibility of a petitio actionis according Nova Roma penal laws, Memmius praetorian edicts will specify, as much as necessary and in the frame of the lines defined in the article 2 above, the rules which will apply to the proceedings of the trial, from the notification of the admissible petitio to the enforcement of the sententia, included the case of proceedings in absentia."

ummmm...no. If a case falls within the scope of Nova Roman law, Memmius doesn't get to decide what course the proceedings will take. We already have law regarding judicial proceedings, the lex Salicia iudiciaria. He will obey the law as it stands. The law overrides any praetor's edict, including this one.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63616 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: File - EDICTUM DE SERMONE
Cato Coruncanio sal.

Salve!

So you can't. Nice try :)

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63617 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Cato omnibus in foro sal.

Salve!

An EXCELLENT idea, Poplicola.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
>
> Keep it for citizenry only? I wouldn't mind keeping this list moderated for
> those who are not citizens and cannot be restricted, but new citizens should
> not be on restriction. After all, they are CITIZENS.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "C. Maria Caeca" <shoshanahathaway@...>
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:03 PM
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > It is my understanding that this is an unrestricted list. Before we try
> > an experiment that would remove all moderation for a month, may I suggest
> > (rather strongly) that this list membership be restricted? Restriction is
> > an excellent first line defense against cyber bottom feeders.
> >
> > C. Maria Caeca
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63618 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: What will you do with the ball ?
Cato Albucio sal.

Salve!

Those are two very long words :)

Yes, Albucius, we did agree regarding freedom of speech, which is why I was left speechless (get it?) when a post to you in perfectly ordinary tones disagreeing with a decision you had made was no only deleted *after* being posted but was used as an excuse to moderate me without warning or cause.

These "pitiful" messages were not made in the Forum, but on a completely separate List totally divorced from official Nova Roma. That the person "Bill Hawks" was able, without moderation and without question, allowed to cross-post from a List run by private citizens is an even deeper question.

Who is he? Where did he come from? Why was *his* post not moderated if the sensibilities of the citizens in the Forum are so fragile? It was full of obscenities and sexual references that certainly had nothing to do with ancient Roman texts. Yet...woohoo! there it was!

If you don't want the Senate List to be open unless the Senate is in session, I suggest you promulgate a law trying to do that. Otherwise it's simply an opinion, no more, no less.

There is nothing closer to the ancient Forum than the Back Alley, actually, right now. The ancient Romans didn't wander around duct-taping the mouths of their citizens closed if they overheard something they didn't like.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63619 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Free expression of ideas
Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato
 
To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
 
Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
 
The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63620 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: What will you do with the ball ?
Poplicola Albucio sal.

"> But I am afraid that the pitiful messages that have been posted during
these last weeks (remember the insults against the Vestal Maxima, the
Plebeians, etc.) well show us that the adults... really behave like adults
i.e. like dignified ones, and less ones."

If you recall, those "insults" (and I put that in quotes since there were no
insults at all against the Plebeians, but that might not be understandable
from a non-native English viewpoint) were not even posted to the Main List
at all. They were mined from several months ago by some troll and sent to
the Virgo Vestalis Maxima who then responded to them as if they were here.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63621 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Cato Coruncanio sal.

Salve!

Yep, he's right. A whole *year* without an edict telling people what they could or could not - or even should or should not - say.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63622 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or support total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41

Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato
 
To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
 
Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
 
The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63623 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
What are you talking about, "immunity". Immunity from what?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:55 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas

> Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.
>
> I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or
> support total immunity for senators?
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
> De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
> Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
>
>
> To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any
> person approved to post to the main list. Once a member of the list their
> post should go through.
>
>
>
> Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term
> of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be
> adopted.
>
>
>
> The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how
> or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer
> my question?
> Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?
>
> --
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
> L. Coruncanius Cato
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
>
> De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
> Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
> Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50
>
>
>
>
> Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
>
> As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when
> intercepted by the spam
> filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
>
> All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in
> a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is
> also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
> I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the
> Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment
> in letting adults behave as adults.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?
>
> --
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
> L. Coruncanius Cato
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
> escribió:
>
> De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38
>
>
>
>
> Salvete
>
> The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must
> be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has
> to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the
> whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an
> edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing
> anybody on moderation?
>
> The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the
> rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.
>
> Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear
> and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Censor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>>
>> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
>> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new
>> > citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
>> >
>> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably
>> > moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
>> >
>>
>> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>>
>> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
>> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
>> intercessio against the constitution.
>>
>> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
>> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>>
>> Vale, Pius.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63624 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Gawd!!!!

We're acting like a bunch of five year-olds, all of us, playng games of intercessio and veto back and forth, or gawking at the train-wreck as we read.

Isn't anyone tired of this? Is anyone ready to forgive, and do something productive to help Nova Roma thrive, instead of do everything in our power to destroy it?

Nope? Didn't think so.

No moderator of a mailing list can ever curtail anyone's freedom of speech; they can only curtail _where_ we speak. We are always free to speak to those who care to hear--in private email.

To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

Deal with it privately, the way you're expected to at your job. Stop inflaming the entire maiing list with this nonsense.

P. Corva, not feeling particularly Gaudialis at the moment.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63625 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Equito Catoni SPD.

Good for you! Are you in the Praetorship now? No. So... if you want to change thinks, try to run again for Praetor when the time comes. Meanwhile, accept the rules and let the people do their work. This used to be called "democracy".


--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Free expression of ideas
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:46

Cato Coruncanio sal.

Salve!

Yep, he's right. A whole *year* without an edict telling people what they could or could not - or even should or should not - say.

Vale,

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63626 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Valerio Poplicolae SPD.

I don't know, and because I don't know, I am asking Censor Paulinus. But for two times I did not got an answer, but only a "subject" change.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escribió:
De: Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:08

What are you talking about, "immunity". Immunity from what?

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:55 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas

> Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.
>
> I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or
> support total immunity for senators?
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
> De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
> Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
>
>
> To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any
> person approved to post to the main list. Once a member of the list their
> post should go through.
>
>
>
> Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term
> of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be
> adopted.
>
>
>
> The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how
> or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer
> my question?
> Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?
>
> --
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
> L. Coruncanius Cato
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
>
> De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
> Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
> Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogro u ps.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50
>
>
>
>
> Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
>
> As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when
> intercepted by the spam
> filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
>
> All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in
> a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is
> also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
> I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the
> Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment
> in letting adults behave as adults.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?
>
> --
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
> L. Coruncanius Cato
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
>
> --- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
> escribió:
>
> De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38
>
>
>
>
> Salvete
>
> The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must
> be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has
> to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the
> whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an
> edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing
> anybody on moderation?
>
> The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the
> rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.
>
> Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear
> and imminent treat to the republic.
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Censor
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>>
>> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
>> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new
>> > citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
>> >
>> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably
>> > moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
>> >
>>
>> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>>
>> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
>> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
>> intercessio against the constitution.
>>
>> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
>> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>>
>> Vale, Pius.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63627 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Salve,
 
You are most welcome and my thanks to you as well for your courteous rebuttal. All my energy is wasted on exams, I have none left to yell and be exciting. =)
 
Didn't Cato call for the consuls to call for a vote in the comitia? If he himself is calling for the vote it is illegal, but I had understood he was calling for those with the authority to do so call the matter to a vote, else he would take the matter to external authorities.
 
I hope Senator Cato does not object to me using a snippet of his previous post. It goes as follows:
 
"If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am, in fact, giving the consuls the very opportunity you demand - that they call the comitia centuriata in conjunction with the already scheduled elections and have this vote taken under our - "our" as in we citizens' - internal procedures."
 
I had interpreted this as him requesting the presiding magistrates to call for a vote. He believes that there is dereliction of duties, and so he has called for the proper authorities to call the matter to a vote in the comitia. If the internal procedures aren't followed he intends to go to 'higher authorities' as it were. It is his right to do so, so I cannot object to him doing so should we refuse to allow him to exercise that right here.
 
With blackmail one demands a bribe in order to avoid negative consequences. Here the consequence is foregone. There will be a vote. He merely wishes to go through the NR legal system rather than bringing in American authorities. That is the 'courtesy' I was referring to.
 
What would you have Cato do amice? Other than simply drop the whole thing of course. I have heard enough to believe that that will not be happening. Regardless of whether or not I agree with Cato, I support him doing what he believes it is his duty to do. If the majority disagrees, then the vote will show this and that will be it. To believe laws are being and then doing nothing would be more of a transgression in my view.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus
 
 

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I thank you for your answer. It's hard to find someone who speaks sense and quiet these weeks. :)

But, I must stand within my position. Equitius Cato has NOT the right to call for a vote to remove any magistrate, because the current constitution says, in Chap. IV A:
"Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him."

As far as I know, a citizen's "call for a vote against a magistrate" it's not a "law originating in the comitia". And because of this, if Equitius Cato says "if I don't hear about you I will force the vote" is, here and everywhere and despite of useless rethoric, blackmail.

If Equitius Cato would have a "courtesy", then he sould do things propperly.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:38

Salve,
 
I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
 
If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
 
Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
" If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63628 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: M Annia's birthday feast
Avete Omnes;

To answer the call for more constructive posts. . .

This menu may not be suitable for all participants, bread and water at
the rear of the hall for the Philestines ,-)

What I prepared for my wife's birthday meal, celebrated today, actual
occurrence was on on Friday.
(I was not up to the celebration then, as I was recovering from a
lower GI inspection and am waiting for biopsy results.)

All I will confirm is that M Annia is forever younger and prettier than me. =)
(Though, I am the handsomest Male Nova Roman there is)

Wine will be served in 3 oz rather than 6 oz servings:

On the table: both oil and brine cured black olives, thick sliced Roma
tomatoes, Feta and fresh mozzarella cheese, fresh-baked garlic bread,
olive oil with rosemary - Montepulciano d'Abruzzo from Italy

Soup: chicken broth with ground chicken dumplings, rice, escarole and
endive (shredded coarsely) garnished with freshly grated, aged Asiago
cheese and slivered celeriac - White Merlot from California, USA

Main dish: slow roasted leg of lamb, oven roasted potatoes; steamed
spinach, onions and leeks with lemon, sweet corn with butter - Retsina
from Greece

Salad: shredded arugula, romaine, red cabbage, carrot and radish with
a touch of balsamic vinagrette dressing - Sauvignon Blanc from Chile

Dessert: Baklava - Mavrodaphne of Patras from Greece

Fill in the blanks: dried figs, dates and apricots, almonds, walnuts,
hazelnuts - Yalumba Clocktower Port from Australia

You know, as I look where all my food and drink came from, kind of
like Nova Roma, all over the globe.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
http://anheathenreader.blogspot.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
http://www.cafepress.com/catamountgrange
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63629 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Enough is Enough.
Salvete Omnes!

Enough is Enough!  I am sick and tired of all the arguing on the Main List!  We are causing more harm than good by doing this!  We are currently suffering from what I call "Internet Anonymity Syndrome."  We all have very few "real" ties to each other and this is what is killing us.  Even though we have names attached to what we write, we don't hear each other's voices or see their faces when we respond.  This is a major problem for us as a nonprofit organization which seeks to educate others of Rome.  Outreach is hard to do for us in real life, when most of us haven't met each other in person.  This makes each of us an island connected very subtly over a thin.  We also have a rather Top Heavy organization at present, and so everything is political and nothing really gets done.  Consider this the rebuke of all the Factions in Nova Roma, and the Birth of an apolitical Faction, a Do Something Faction.

ITo EVERY citizen,  I challenge either to Join or to Create an Oppidum.  Should there not be one in your area, recruit people who could be interested. If there is an existing oppidum, join it.  This would increase our coverage and help people to feel like this is a more legitimate organization.  Members by themselves aren't doing anything but argue.  Regular face time will even out tempers. Information on organizing an oppidum can be found here: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_de_Oppidis_et_Municipiis_(Nova_Roma)

To the Provincial governors, I have two challenges. I challenge you to earn your keep and help organize a province wide Meetup at least twice a year.  People will come.  Talk to your list and find out what people want.  My other Challenge is to encourage the formation of Oppidums within your Province.  Get people motivated to talk to their friends to join.  Be Proactive instead of Reactive!  Our goal is to help people learn of Rome, and that won't happen unless people can get together and organize locally.

To the Senate and all Magistrates, Pontificates, and others currently involved, I say let us set our petty differences aside!  Nothing is getting done, and change will have to come!  While I do not know if we are violating any US laws, any  we are should be fixed asap.  If that requires a dictator, then so be it.  If not, then even better.   Things must not, however, be changed that are for purely political reasons.  Our goal should be compliance, then we can let our differences blossom to help create a stronger Republic.   We should then be focusing on expanding the Real World experiences that are needed.  I urge the magistrates most of all to organize Conventii, one in Europe and one in the US.  I would then urge as many Nova Romans to attend them as can.

Should we be able to do these things,   Tempers will even out, and arguments and debates will be more constructive than destructive as they are now.

Avete et Valete,

C Fulvius Severus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63630 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Enough is Enough.
Ave Severus, et salvete omnes;

Very nice post, to the heart of a few points I have been trying to make ,-)

Though I will disclaim that this author was in any way inspired by my
few, ill typed words.

Valete - Venator
"Strive to thrive, not merely survive."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63631 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
 
Asked and answered twice.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:55:58 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or support total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41


Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
 
Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
 
The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63632 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Enough is Enough.
Salve Flavi Severe!


Thank you for writing this. You are citizen who cares about Nova Roma.

I agree with you in 100% and this is not just talk: I am organizing an international Nova Roma Feast in Pannonia, and we will soon found our first Pannonian oppidum.

I'm preparing to the Parilia right now to pray for Nova Roma and for the Nova Romans.

In the real life Nova Roma triumphs over here. Because we live our Romanitas and not just talk about it.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTITUDE!

VIVAT NOVA ROMA!!


--- Lun 20/4/09, Colin Cunningham <talimar1@...> ha scritto:
Da: Colin Cunningham <talimar1@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Enough is Enough.
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 03:32

Salvete Omnes!


Enough is Enough!  I am sick and tired of all the arguing on the Main List!  We are causing more harm than good by doing this!  We are currently suffering from what I call "Internet Anonymity Syndrome."  We all have very few "real" ties to each other and this is what is killing us.  Even though we have names attached to what we write, we don't hear each other's voices or see their faces when we respond.  This is a major problem for us as a nonprofit organization which seeks to educate others of Rome.  Outreach is hard to do for us in real life, when most of us haven't met each other in person.  This makes each of us an island connected very subtly over a thin.  We also have a rather Top Heavy organization at present, and so everything is political and nothing really gets done.  Consider this the rebuke of all the Factions in Nova Roma, and the Birth of an apolitical Faction, a Do Something Faction.

ITo EVERY citizen,  I challenge either to Join or to Create an Oppidum.  Should there not be one in your area, recruit people who could be interested. If there is an existing oppidum, join it.  This would increase our coverage and help people to feel like this is a more legitimate organization.  Members by themselves aren't doing anything but argue.  Regular face time will even out tempers. Information on organizing an oppidum can be found here: http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Fabia_de_ Oppidis_et_ Municipiis_ (Nova_Roma)

To the Provincial governors, I have two challenges. I challenge you to earn your keep and help organize a province wide Meetup at least twice a year.  People will come.  Talk to your list and find out what people want.  My other Challenge is to encourage the formation of Oppidums within your Province.  Get people motivated to talk to their friends to join.  Be Proactive instead of Reactive!  Our goal is to help people learn of Rome, and that won't happen unless people can get together and organize locally.

To the Senate and all Magistrates, Pontificates, and others currently involved, I say let us set our petty differences aside!  Nothing is getting done, and change will have to come!  While I do not know if we are violating any US laws, any  we are should be fixed asap.  If that requires a dictator, then so be it.  If not, then even better.   Things must not, however, be changed that are for purely political reasons.  Our goal should be compliance, then we can let our differences blossom to help create a stronger Republic.   We should then be focusing on expanding the Real World experiences that are needed.  I urge the magistrates most of all to organize Conventii, one in Europe and one in the US.  I would then urge as many Nova Romans to attend them as can.

Should we be able to do these things,   Tempers will even out, and arguments and debates will be more constructive than destructive as they are now.

Avete et Valete,

C Fulvius Severus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63633 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Lentulus Paullae Gaudiali sal.


I hope you will be soon more "Gaudialis"...!

Your words are so true... 

Citizens, please try to consider them!





--- Lun 20/4/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> ha scritto:
Da: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 03:10

Gawd!!!!

We're acting like a bunch of five year-olds, all of us, playng games of intercessio and veto back and forth, or gawking at the train-wreck as we read.

Isn't anyone tired of this? Is anyone ready to forgive, and do something productive to help Nova Roma thrive, instead of do everything in our power to destroy it?

Nope? Didn't think so.

No moderator of a mailing list can ever curtail anyone's freedom of speech; they can only curtail _where_ we speak. We are always free to speak to those who care to hear--in private email.

To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

Deal with it privately, the way you're expected to at your job. Stop inflaming the entire maiing list with this nonsense.

P. Corva, not feeling particularly Gaudialis at the moment.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63634 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Salve
 
 
Yes, i have to agree with P. Corva. The ML, and all this atmosphere of "threats and legal conflicts" is pretty tiresome.
 
 
Marcus Arminius


--- Em dom, 19/4/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> escreveu:

De: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Domingo, 19 de Abril de 2009, 22:10

Gawd!!!!

We're acting like a bunch of five year-olds, all of us, playng games of intercessio and veto back and forth, or gawking at the train-wreck as we read.

Isn't anyone tired of this? Is anyone ready to forgive, and do something productive to help Nova Roma thrive, instead of do everything in our power to destroy it?

Nope? Didn't think so.

No moderator of a mailing list can ever curtail anyone's freedom of speech; they can only curtail _where_ we speak. We are always free to speak to those who care to hear--in private email.

To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

Deal with it privately, the way you're expected to at your job. Stop inflaming the entire maiing list with this nonsense.

P. Corva, not feeling particularly Gaudialis at the moment.



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63635 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Enough is Enough.

Dear Severus,

 

I am one of the founders of the first oppidum in the western hemisphere (Oppidum Fluminis Gilae), and I totally agree with you about citizens organizing, encouraged and facilitated by their governors.

 

But here’s the problem: if the corporation at large is out of compliance with the law, then it doesn’t matter how many local face-to-face meetings we have. The leadership of the corporation must take action to deal with the alledged problems before outreach can really take place.

 

It is not “political” to insist that the corporation conform to the law. I am not part of a “faction” when I assume that the leaders of my organization will act to investigate allegations of wrong-doing.

 

I *am* angry that my elected leaders appear to be doing nothing about the serious charges brought against us, such as wire fraud. The leadership I want to see is the consuls writing jointly (as co-presidents) to the Main List to acknowledge that 1. they are aware of the accusations, 2. they take those accusations (true or not) very seriously, and 3, that they are taking specific actions to investigate and deal with the accusations. To not do so is, in my opinion, dereliction of duty.

 

Instead of this leadership, we get a long message from one consul about the various obscure meanings of the word “restoration”. This is not the kind of leadership I expect.

 

Meanwhile, the co-vice presidents are censoring citizens’ free speech and inventing excuses about the reasons why.

 

I’m sorry, but with clouds like this over the organization, it’s very difficult (if not impossible) to encourage people to join NR. It is the duty of all the magistrates and the board of directors to set this straight, or no one will want to join.

 

Sincerely,

Steve Moore

Aka M. Valerius Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Colin Cunningham
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 6:33 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Enough is Enough.

 




Salvete Omnes!

 

Enough is Enough!  I am sick and tired of all the arguing on the Main List!  We are causing more harm than good by doing this!  We are currently suffering from what I call "Internet Anonymity Syndrome."  We all have very few "real" ties to each other and this is what is killing us.  Even though we have names attached to what we write, we don't hear each other's voices or see their faces when we respond.  This is a major problem for us as a nonprofit organization which seeks to educate others of Rome .  Outreach is hard to do for us in real life, when most of us haven't met each other in person.  This makes each of us an island connected very subtly over a thin.  We also have a rather Top Heavy organization at present, and so everything is political and nothing really gets done.  Consider this the rebuke of all the Factions in Nova Roma, and the Birth of an apolitical Faction, a Do Something Faction.

 

ITo EVERY citizen,  I challenge either to Join or to Create an Oppidum.  Should there not be one in your area, recruit people who could be interested. If there is an existing oppidum, join it.  This would increase our coverage and help people to feel like this is a more legitimate organization.  Members by themselves aren't doing anything but argue.  Regular face time will even out tempers. Information on organizing an oppidum can be found here: http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Lex_ Fabia_de_ Oppidis_et_ Municipiis_ (Nova_Roma)

 

To the Provincial governors, I have two challenges. I challenge you to earn your keep and help organize a province wide Meetup at least twice a year.  People will come.  Talk to your list and find out what people want.  My other Challenge is to encourage the formation of Oppidums within your Province.  Get people motivated to talk to their friends to join.  Be Proactive instead of Reactive!  Our goal is to help people learn of Rome , and that won't happen unless people can get together and organize locally.

 

To the Senate and all Magistrates, Pontificates, and others currently involved, I say let us set our petty differences aside!  Nothing is getting done, and change will have to come!  While I do not know if we are violating any US laws, any  we are should be fixed asap.  If that requires a dictator, then so be it.  If not, then even better.   Things must not, however, be changed that are for purely political reasons.  Our goal should be compliance, then we can let our differences blossom to help create a stronger Republic.   We should then be focusing on expanding the Real World experiences that are needed.  I urge the magistrates most of all to organize Conventii, one in Europe and one in the US .  I would then urge as many Nova Romans to attend them as can.

 

Should we be able to do these things,   Tempers will even out, and arguments and debates will be more constructive than destructive as they are now.

 

Avete et Valete,

 

C Fulvius Severus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63636 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: the Birth Day of Rome
Salvete omnes;
the Parilia the birth day of Rome will be upon us Tuesday. I'm thinking of all the things I love about Rome:
gorgeous poetry
magnificent architecture
the Forum, history
eternal Latin language

let's talk about what we love; my dream is to see
everyone speaking Latin again. I'd love to quote an elegy of
Propertius, I'd like to see Mare Nostrum.
I havent been there in years and I am nostalgic for my home.
valete
Marca Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63637 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Salvet;


I've started a new thread about what we love about Rome.
Maior
>
> Salve
>
>
> Yes, i have to agree with P. Corva. The ML, and all this atmosphere of "threats and legal conflicts" is pretty tiresome.
>
>
> Marcus Arminius
>
>
> --- Em dom, 19/4/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> escreveu:
>
>
> De: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Domingo, 19 de Abril de 2009, 22:10
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gawd!!!!
>
> We're acting like a bunch of five year-olds, all of us, playng games of intercessio and veto back and forth, or gawking at the train-wreck as we read.
>
> Isn't anyone tired of this? Is anyone ready to forgive, and do something productive to help Nova Roma thrive, instead of do everything in our power to destroy it?
>
> Nope? Didn't think so.
>
> No moderator of a mailing list can ever curtail anyone's freedom of speech; they can only curtail _where_ we speak. We are always free to speak to those who care to hear--in private email.
>
> To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.
>
> Deal with it privately, the way you're expected to at your job. Stop inflaming the entire maiing list with this nonsense.
>
> P. Corva, not feeling particularly Gaudialis at the moment.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63638 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Lentulus Quiritibus sal.


You find below what Sulla writes about Censor Laenas' resignation. I have talked with him and he told me it was Sulla and his manipulative activity that forced him to make this decision.

He wrote almost the same to Consul Complutensis who shared with me his letter.

C. Popillius Laenas, an honourable, trusted and respected Nova Roman, a former consul, censor, senator, lictor, governor says about Sulla:

"I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who sees this as a game."


THIS IS FROM LAENAS' LETTER TO THE CONSUL
----------------------------------------------
Salve Consul,
 
Thank you. I am sad I have left as well.  Eight plus years is a long time to work on something.  It just became too much for me, and I apologize to those who I have let down especially Censor Paulinus.
 
The reason for my resignation was really mental strain.  I was getting very little joy from my membership in Nova Roma and experiencing considerable distress.  It was even affecting my moods such that my girlfriend would notice.
 
There are two main reasons:
 
1.    Lucius Cornelius Sulla.  He was once a friend.  I found him on Facebook and invited him to return to Nova Roma.  My colleague and I put him back in the Senate.  In my opinion, he repaid me by using me to help further his vendetta against Nova Roma.  In particular he has it in for you and your colleague because of the trial of Cincinnatus last year.  I do not agree with the way the matter was handled, but I do not believe you and your colleague acted in bad faith.  That is something I could no longer believe of Sulla.  I do not think his constant threats of macronational action will ever cease, and it is one of the things that stop the Republic from achieving anything. 
 
Anyone reading the Back Alley can see where Sulla has vowed to "punish" those in Nova Roma who he feels have acted wrongly.  He has phenomenal energy and I do not think he will stop his vendetta.
 
I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who sees this as a game.
 
2.    There is no final rule of law in Nova Roma except the Tribunes who are ineffective.  It seems that no matter who takes and action or what that action is, one group applauds it and the other says it is illegal.  There is no mechanism to decide who is right. The squabble just go back and forth with each side just repeating the same argument over and over.  I lost my faith that this could ever be changed.



--- Dom 19/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> ha scritto:
Da: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Domenica 19 Aprile 2009, 23:38

Avete Omnes,

I want to express my disappointment at the resignation of my friend Laenas. He was a good friend and over the years him and I had many good laughs and talks. I always viewed him with respect and acknowledged his efforts to build bridges within all factions of Nova Roma.

However, time is not on our hands. There is no evidence of a change in attitude from THE POWERS THAT BE.

I believe and am convinced that they simply used Laenas friendly nature as and used him to target me - as emphasized in the back alley.

They dragged laenas further into the conflicts by hounding him all the time over his decision to invite me into the senate. I accept that Laenas view of myself - I cannot change his opinion, but I tell you, People of Nova Roma that it will not deflect you from ensuring that the evident abuses and attempts to see NR controlled by the same self-perpetuating clique that has had its hand on NR's tiller for over 5 years must stop NOW! Nova Roma must no longer be governed by a clique that distorts and twist Nova Romas by laws for its own ends.

Nova Roma is supposed to be governed by laws. And, if it cost me the friendship of Laenas, I have no choice but to accept it, but it will not stop me from taking my fiduciary duty seriously and work to make Nova Roma compliant with all laws within Nova Roma and in Maine.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63639 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: My conversation with Censor Laenas


MY FACEBOOK CONVERSATION WITH LAENAS STARTS:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work!
Between Keith Sterne and You

 
Today at 5:24pm
Thank you for your answer, and for the work you did for Nova Roma since 2001. I'm really sad you had to leave...

Only one question - if you permit me to ask this last question...

Why? Who is the responsible?
 
Today at 5:36pm

 Sulla. I thought of him as a friend. Found him here (Facebook) and facilitated his return including putting him back in the Senate. Since then, he almost daily threatens to sue NR or report NR to macronational authorities. I lost my belief that he was acting in good faith.

Then the fact that NR has no final mechanism to say what the law is. No matter what the action, one group applauds it, the other says it is "illegal".

I do not want to discourage you, but I just do not see it ever getting any better.
 
Today at 6:08pm
I don't know Sulla but I did not hear anything good about him until he reappeared, and when he reappeared what I've been seeing is mass-manipulation, hatred, insults, pushing for a vendetta.

To be sincere I find him a highly manipulative and disrespectful person. May I say I find him disgusting? I may be wrong, I may be biased, but Sulla seems to me a dishonest man.

Right now there are loud those who claim that the cause of your registration was the Praetorial Cohors and Maior. Nonsense. I thought that it is a lie but now from your letter I know the truth. I would like to ask your permission for referring to our conversation here.

 
Today at 6:24pm
No it had nothing to do with the Praetors. I admire Albucius greatly, even if I do not always agree with him. Marinus is acting in good faith, but I do think he has overstepped his authority a time or two.

Feel free to reference our conversations. Censor Paulinus, Senator Quintilianus, and Sulla himself know why I left.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63640 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Lentulus;

I am now very disappointed in you, Concordia, indeed.

Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63641 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Sulla's style
This is Sulla.

Evil.

What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?

He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?



--- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54

You know.  I don't care you posted it on the ML.

I just love the smell of fear.  :)  You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!

Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to. 

No one trusts you.  No one trusts your cronies.

And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.  Because YOU lost it. 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63642 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
LOL. Style? Facta, not dicta. Surely the Romans taught you that. You can use
all the flowery language you want, but your deeds show the better of you.
Hypocrisy isn't invisible, Lentule.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 10:01 PM
To: "Nova Roma ML" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Sulla's style

> This is Sulla.
>
> Evil.
>
> What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
>
> He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
>
>
>
> --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
> A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
> Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You know. I don't care you posted it on the ML.
>
> I just love the smell of fear. :) You sniping at me...I love the thought
> that I am a threat!
>
> Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new
> direction NR is going to.
>
>
> No one trusts you. No one trusts your cronies.
>
> And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.
> Because YOU lost it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63643 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Lentulus;

I do not care what your motives are; forwarding another person's
posts, outside of where they were made, without their express
permission is not just bad netiquette, but it is just plain wrong.

Flamen Concordia, indeed.

Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63644 From: enodia2002 Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Lentulus,

That was uncalled for and well beneath you. Get ahold of yourself!

V Rutilia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> This is Sulla.
>
> Evil.
>
> What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
>
> He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
>
>
>
> --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
> A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
> Data: Luned� 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You know.� I don't care you posted it on the ML.
>
> I just love the smell of fear.� :)� You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!
>
> Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to.�
>
>
> No one trusts you.� No one trusts your cronies.
>
> And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.� Because YOU lost it.�
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63645 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
He obviously spits on Concordia. No wonder with him as Sacerdos Nova Roma
has had nothing but strife. NO WONDER AT ALL!

I will be making my own libations and hoping that those who have come out
and reached out to me will cease their attacks instead of continuing their
hypocrisy. I'd actually love to see Concord. And praise does deserve to
Albucius who has reached out and asked me to work with him on his edict.

Te laudo, Albuci!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator" <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 10:10 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Sulla's style

> Lentulus;
>
> I do not care what your motives are; forwarding another person's
> posts, outside of where they were made, without their express
> permission is not just bad netiquette, but it is just plain wrong.
>
> Flamen Concordia, indeed.
>
> Venator
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63646 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-19
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Lentule, Lentule, Lentule...

The ML had finally calmed down, but you stirred the coals again with your post. Why? If you think Sulla is a troublemaker why are you descending to his ways? Your actions do not indicate that you really care about concordia.

-Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> This is Sulla.
>
> Evil.
>
> What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
>
> He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
>
>
>
> --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
> Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
> A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
> Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You know.  I don't care you posted it on the ML.
>
> I just love the smell of fear.  :)  You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!
>
> Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to. 
>
>
> No one trusts you.  No one trusts your cronies.
>
> And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.  Because YOU lost it. 
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63647 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Blood, guts and the fall of Rome!!!!
Salvete
 
Do you want some blood?
 
Do you want to see your kith and kin killed?
 
Do you want to see Rome on fire??
 
 
 
 
 
 
I know I do so that is why I joined the Nova Roma Book club!!!! Take a break from the mainlist
 
 
 
novaromabookclub@ yahoogroups. com 

Vale
 
Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63648 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Salvete;
Gn.Cornelius Lentulus is one of the finest Nova Romans there is:
a pontifex who has real life rituals, and yes who has many time tried to help with harmony and talked about Concordia.
And did it. He was the one who got a group to bring Cato back to Nova Roma. So please think twice when you impugn his name, his character.

Instead of running down wonderful Nova Romans like Gn. Cornelius Lentulus who has accomplished so much, let's praise him and emulate him.

What would Nova Roma look like then?

bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

---

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> Lentulus;
>
> I am now very disappointed in you, Concordia, indeed.
>
> Venator
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63649 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Well, there'd be a lot less censorship, for one.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:06 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation

> Salvete;
> Gn.Cornelius Lentulus is one of the finest Nova Romans there is:
> a pontifex who has real life rituals, and yes who has many time tried to
> help with harmony and talked about Concordia.
> And did it. He was the one who got a group to bring Cato back to Nova
> Roma. So please think twice when you impugn his name, his character.
>
> Instead of running down wonderful Nova Romans like Gn. Cornelius Lentulus
> who has accomplished so much, let's praise him and emulate him.
>
> What would Nova Roma look like then?
>
> bene vale in pacem deorum
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> ---
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>>
>> Lentulus;
>>
>> I am now very disappointed in you, Concordia, indeed.
>>
>> Venator
>>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63650 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Maior Quiritibus spd;
what Lentulus is, is upset that he should be reviled so, when he has been patient, and trying to make thoughtful points. he was shocked by Sulla's enjoyment.
I think he expected more out of some people: Poplicola Gaulterus, both cultores, have you performed as many rituals to the gods as Lentulus, have you posted them for the benefit of all Nova Romans?
No, not one.
Gn. Cornelius Lentulus goes out and insures the Pax Deorum, a true pious son of Rome. He is action not vain chatter.
M. Hortensia Maior


- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
>
> Lentule, Lentule, Lentule...
>
> The ML had finally calmed down, but you stirred the coals again with your post. Why? If you think Sulla is a troublemaker why are you descending to his ways? Your actions do not indicate that you really care about concordia.
>
> -Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> >
> > This is Sulla.
> >
> > Evil.
> >
> > What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
> >
> > He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> ha scritto:
> > Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
> > Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
> > A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
> > Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You know. I don't care you posted it on the ML.
> >
> > I just love the smell of fear. :) You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!
> >
> > Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to.
> >
> >
> > No one trusts you. No one trusts your cronies.
> >
> > And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that. Because YOU lost it.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63651 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
I promise you this, Maior. Buy me a video cam and I will indeed videotape
the rituals. And I even have a camilla to help me, although I'm afraid that
I'm losing her soon. I'll have to find another one. Want to move to San
Francisco to be my attendant, Maior?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:13 PM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sulla's style

> Maior Quiritibus spd;
> what Lentulus is, is upset that he should be reviled so, when he has been
> patient, and trying to make thoughtful points. he was shocked by Sulla's
> enjoyment.
> I think he expected more out of some people: Poplicola Gaulterus,
> both cultores, have you performed as many rituals to the gods as Lentulus,
> have you posted them for the benefit of all Nova Romans?
> No, not one.
> Gn. Cornelius Lentulus goes out and insures the Pax Deorum, a true pious
> son of Rome. He is action not vain chatter.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Lentule, Lentule, Lentule...
>>
>> The ML had finally calmed down, but you stirred the coals again with your
>> post. Why? If you think Sulla is a troublemaker why are you descending to
>> his ways? Your actions do not indicate that you really care about
>> concordia.
>>
>> -Gualterus
>>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
>> <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
>> >
>> > This is Sulla.
>> >
>> > Evil.
>> >
>> > What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
>> >
>> > He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil
>> > style...?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> ha scritto:
>> > Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
>> > Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
>> > A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
>> > Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You know. I don't care you posted it on the ML.
>> >
>> > I just love the smell of fear. :) You sniping at me...I love the
>> > thought that I am a threat!
>> >
>> > Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new
>> > direction NR is going to.
>> >
>> >
>> > No one trusts you. No one trusts your cronies.
>> >
>> > And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.
>> > Because YOU lost it.
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63652 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Salve Maior,

I have only positive thoughts about Lentulus as a cultor and future scholar. My problem is with him in political positions. I think you will recognize that scholars and politicians require very different skills and not all persons--indeed, I dare say most--do not have both. It is in the capacity as a politician or agent thereof that I have lost confidence in him.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Quiritibus spd;
> what Lentulus is, is upset that he should be reviled so, when he has been patient, and trying to make thoughtful points. he was shocked by Sulla's enjoyment.
> I think he expected more out of some people: Poplicola Gaulterus, both cultores, have you performed as many rituals to the gods as Lentulus, have you posted them for the benefit of all Nova Romans?
> No, not one.
> Gn. Cornelius Lentulus goes out and insures the Pax Deorum, a true pious son of Rome. He is action not vain chatter.
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lentule, Lentule, Lentule...
> >
> > The ML had finally calmed down, but you stirred the coals again with your post. Why? If you think Sulla is a troublemaker why are you descending to his ways? Your actions do not indicate that you really care about concordia.
> >
> > -Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is Sulla.
> > >
> > > Evil.
> > >
> > > What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
> > >
> > > He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> ha scritto:
> > > Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
> > > Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
> > > A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You know. I don't care you posted it on the ML.
> > >
> > > I just love the smell of fear. :) You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!
> > >
> > > Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to.
> > >
> > >
> > > No one trusts you. No one trusts your cronies.
> > >
> > > And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that. Because YOU lost it.
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63653 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: THE REASON for C. Popillius Laenas' resignation
Priscus Lentulus sal.

After I left Gens Cornelia (and my Cornelian name) to found Gens
Servilia I was proud that someone had chosen my former name of Gnaeus
Cornelius Lentulus. In the years since I was very impressed with your
service to Nova Roma and how you have promoted it to the world. But
now, you my namesake have in the past few months have become very
disappointing to me. You talk of Concordia, yet you post e-mail's that
do not promote such Concordia. I also must say you are not showing
much honor to Gens Cornelia and yourself in continuing this what seems
to be a vendetta against Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix. I maybe wrong
about a vendetta be it seems awful close to one to me.

Optime vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus
(formally NR's First Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus)

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 21:38, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
> You find below what Sulla writes about Censor Laenas' resignation. I have
> talked with him and he told me it was Sulla and his manipulative activity
> that forced him to make this decision.
>
> He wrote almost the same to Consul Complutensis who shared with me his
> letter.
>
> C. Popillius Laenas, an honourable, trusted and respected Nova Roman, a
> former consul, censor, senator, lictor, governor says about Sulla:
>
> "I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova
> Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see
> how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say
> otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who
> sees this as a game."
>
>
> THIS IS FROM LAENAS' LETTER TO THE CONSUL
> ----------------------------------------------
> Salve Consul,
>
> Thank you. I am sad I have left as well.  Eight plus years is a long time to
> work on something.  It just became too much for me, and I apologize to those
> who I have let down especially Censor Paulinus.
>
> The reason for my resignation was really mental strain.  I was getting very
> little joy from my membership in Nova Roma and experiencing considerable
> distress.  It was even affecting my moods such that my girlfriend would
> notice.
>
> There are two main reasons:
>
> 1.    Lucius Cornelius Sulla.  He was once a friend.  I found him on
> Facebook and invited him to return to Nova Roma.  My colleague and I put him
> back in the Senate.  In my opinion, he repaid me by using me to help further
> his vendetta against Nova Roma.  In particular he has it in for you and your
> colleague because of the trial of Cincinnatus last year.  I do not agree
> with the way the matter was handled, but I do not believe you and your
> colleague acted in bad faith.  That is something I could no longer believe
> of Sulla.  I do not think his constant threats of macronational action will
> ever cease, and it is one of the things that stop the Republic from
> achieving anything.
>
> Anyone reading the Back Alley can see where Sulla has vowed to "punish"
> those in Nova Roma who he feels have acted wrongly.  He has phenomenal
> energy and I do not think he will stop his vendetta.
>
> I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova
> Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see
> how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say
> otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who
> sees this as a game.
>
> 2.    There is no final rule of law in Nova Roma except the Tribunes who are
> ineffective.  It seems that no matter who takes and action or what that
> action is, one group applauds it and the other says it is illegal.  There is
> no mechanism to decide who is right. The squabble just go back and forth
> with each side just repeating the same argument over and over.  I lost my
> faith that this could ever be changed.
>
>
> --- Dom 19/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Domenica 19 Aprile 2009, 23:38
>
> Avete Omnes,
>
> I want to express my disappointment at the resignation of my friend Laenas.
> He was a good friend and over the years him and I had many good laughs and
> talks. I always viewed him with respect and acknowledged his efforts to
> build bridges within all factions of Nova Roma.
>
> However, time is not on our hands. There is no evidence of a change in
> attitude from THE POWERS THAT BE.
>
> I believe and am convinced that they simply used Laenas friendly nature as
> and used him to target me - as emphasized in the back alley.
>
> They dragged laenas further into the conflicts by hounding him all the time
> over his decision to invite me into the senate. I accept that Laenas view of
> myself - I cannot change his opinion, but I tell you, People of Nova Roma
> that it will not deflect you from ensuring that the evident abuses and
> attempts to see NR controlled by the same self-perpetuating clique that has
> had its hand on NR's tiller for over 5 years must stop NOW! Nova Roma must
> no longer be governed by a clique that distorts and twist Nova Romas by laws
> for its own ends.
>
> Nova Roma is supposed to be governed by laws. And, if it cost me the
> friendship of Laenas, I have no choice but to accept it, but it will not
> stop me from taking my fiduciary duty seriously and work to make Nova Roma
> compliant with all laws within Nova Roma and in Maine.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>



--
Deism: A Non-Prophet Religion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63654 From: Colin Brodd Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
C. Tullius Valerianus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo S.P.D.
 
Amice Lentule, try to understand this - Sulla is NOT evil. Sulla is asking for Nova Roma to be true to itself, to obey its own laws and the laws of its incorporation. He is asking for transparency in our financial and political systems. He is asking for the freedom of every citizen to speak his or her mind without interference.
 
Libertas is a Roman word - and a goddess I honor as you honor Concordia. Libertas is important. The libertas of a citizen consists in many things, and among them is the right to free speech.
 
Following the law is laudable. Who can find fault with that goal?
 
The fact that Sulla is not intimidated by those who want to conceal or obfuscate these things is laudable. And very Roman.
 
If I'm not mistaken, Sulla considered Laenas an asset to NR. I think we are all saddened by losing Laenas. But if Laenas chose to leave, and wants to blame Sulla, that is Laenas' own responsibility. In truth, he has no one to blame but himself. Blaming Sulla solves nothing.
 
Lentule, why do you stand in the way of these things? I know you are a real Roman, and I always thought you were honorable. Why not join with those who want the law followed? Why not join with those who believe in liberty? Why not join with those who want equity and fair-dealing and transparency in our financial  and political institutions?
 
If your personal conflicts with Sulla are too great for you to countenance this, Lentule, I understand. But I would think you would be a supporter of the Roman values and virtues for which he is arguing.
 
Cura ut valeas, amice.
 


 
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:


This is Sulla.

Evil.

What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?

He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?



--- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54

You know.  I don't care you posted it on the ML.

I just love the smell of fear.  :)  You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!

Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to. 

No one trusts you.  No one trusts your cronies.

And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.  Because YOU lost it. 





--
C. TVLLIVS VALERIANVS GERMANICVS

* Lictor Curiatus
* Pontifex Minor Sacris Populi Romani Faciundis
* Legatus Regionis Insulae Rhodensis (ab anno A.U.C. MMDCCLXI)
* Ad Templum Diis Immortalibus Romae Aedificandum!

"Qua(e) patres difficillime
adepti sunt nolite
turpiter relinquere" -
Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
(Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)

Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63655 From: Charlie Collins Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Priscus Lentulus sal.

Is this how you promote the Concordia you talk about? This hateful
pure and simple!

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus


On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 22:01, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
> This is Sulla.
>
> Evil.
>
> What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
>
> He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
>



--
Deism: A Non-Prophet Religion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63656 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: a.d. XII Kal. Mai.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete!

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Maius; haec dies nefastus est.

"Next dawn when Memnon's saffron-robed mother,
With her rosy horses, comes to view the wide lands,
The sun leaves the Ram, Aries, leader of the woolly flock,
Betrayer of Helle, and meets a nobler victim on leaving.
Whether it's Jupiter the Bull, or Io the Heifer's hard to tell:
The front of the creature appears: the rest's concealed.
But whether the sign's a bull or whether it's a heifer,
It enjoys that reward for its love, against Juno's wishes." - Ovid,
Fasti IV

"This god [Zeus], desirous of union with this mortal maid, has imposed
upon her these wanderings. Maiden, you have gained a cruel suitor for
your hand." - Prometheus to Io; Aeschylus, "Prometheus Bound" 565

"And [Hera] set a watcher upon her [Io], great and strong Argos, who
with four eyes looks every way. And the goddess stirred in him
unwearying strength: sleep never fell upon his eyes; but he kept sure
watch always." - Homerica, The Aegimius, Fragment 5 (from Scholiast on
Euripides, Phoenicians 1116)

"It may be, just as a certain cave on the coast which fronts the
Aegean Sea, where Io is said to have given birth to Epaphos, is called
Böos Aule, that the island got the name Euboia (Land of Good Cattle)
from the same cause." - Strabo, Geography 10.1.3

"Two female figures which stand near, Io, the daughter of Inakhos, and
Kallisto, the daughter of Lykaon, of both of whom exactly the same
story is told, to wit, love of Zeus, wrath of Hera, and metamorphosis,
Io becoming a cow and Kallisto a bear." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece
1.25.1, describing the Acropolis in Athens

"From Inachus and Argia [was born] Io. Jupiter loved and embraced Io,
and changed her to heifer form so that Juno would not recognize her.
When Juno found out, she sent Argus, who had gleaming eyes all around
to guard her. Mercury, at Jove's command, killed him. But Juno sent a
fearful shape to plague her, and out of terror of it she was driven
wildly and compelled to cast herself into the sea, which is called
Ionian. Thence she swam to Scythia, and the Bosporus is named from
that; thence she went to Egypt where she bore Epaphus. When Jove
realized that for his sake she had borne such suffering, he restored
her to her own form, and made her a goddess of the Egyptians, called
Isis." - Hyginus, Fabulae 145

"The Phoinikians came to Argos, and set out their cargo. On the fifth
or sixth day after their arrival, when their wares were almost all
sold, many women came to the shore and among them especially the
daughter of the king, whose name was Io (according to Persians and
Greeks alike), the daughter of Inakhos. As these stood about the stern
of the ship bargaining for the wares they liked, the Phoinikians
incited one another to set upon them. Most of the women escaped: Io
and others were seized and thrown into the ship, which then sailed
away for Aigyptos. In this way, the Persians say (and not as the
Greeks), was how Io came to Aigyptos, and this, according to them, was
the first wrong that was done. " - Herodotus, Histories 1.1.2

"But the Phoinikians do not tell the same story about Io as the
Persians. They say that they did not carry her off to Aigyptos by
force. She had intercourse in Argos with the captain of the ship.
Then, finding herself pregnant, she was ashamed to have her parents
know it, and so, lest they discover her condition, she sailed away
with the Phoinikians of her own accord." - Herodotus, Histories 1.5.2

"All Aigyptians sacrifice unblemished bulls and bull-calves; they may
not sacrifice cows: these are sacred to Isis. For the images of Isis
are in woman's form, horned like a cow, exactly as the Greeks picture
Io, and cows are held by far the most sacred of all beasts of the herd
by all Aigyptians alike." - Herodotus, Histories 2.41.1

"Isis: She is called Io. She was snatched by Zeus from Argos and he,
fearing Hera, changed her first into a white cow, then into a black
one, and then into a one that was violet-coloured. After wandering
around with her, he came into Egypt. The Egyptians, then, honour Isis,
and for this reason they carve the horns of a cow on the head of her
statue, alluding to the change from maiden to cow." - Suidas "Isis"


So king Inachus of Argos had a beautiful daughter named Io. Io started having dreams where voices were telling her to go out into a field so Zeus could..."see" her.

She told her father, who then sent out word to all the oracles around to try to figure out what was going on. The oracles at Pytho and Dodona were useless, but the oracle at Loxias had this to say to Inachus: get rid of your daughter as soon as possible, there's big trouble ahead if she sticks around; Zeus would destroy the kingdom if he didn't.

Inachus drove his daughter away.

Hera, of course, knew what was going on. Even though Zeus hadn't actually managed to "see" Io (He had just created a mist to hide His actions from Hera when She showed up), Hera was furious. Zeus, Who had been hanging around disguised as a little white cloud, ran away, but before He did, as Io ran from the city, she began to change. Horns popped out of her head, and slowly she turned into a heifer; white, then black, then a mix of the two. Hera demands the cow as a present, and has her tied to a stake near the Heraion, her cult center.

This still wasn't enough. Knowing that Zeus wouldn't let such a small thing as Io being a cow stop Him if He was really determined, Hera set a herdsman to keep an eye on the cow. Actually, a lot of eyes. Argos Panoptes ("all-seeing") had a hundred eyes all over his body. Zeus, playing "can-you-top-that" with His wife, set His son Hermes to kill Argos and give Him a chance at some quality time with Io. Hermes lulled Argos to sleep and then while he was sleeping chopped off his head; Hermes gained the epithet "Argeiphontes", or "Argos-Killer".

Meanwhile, Hera has sent a gadfly to sting Io into madness, driving her across the world seeking relief. She runs from the Propontis to the Black Sea, and her path became known as the "Bosporus", or "ox passage". Going through the Caucasus Mountains, she finds Prometheus chained spread-eagle to a mountain, still being punished by Zeus for having given humans fire. Io, sort of egocentrically, starts complaining about how rotten things have gone for her. Remember, she's talking to a Titan strung up in chains forged by Hephaestus himself whose liver has been ripped out by a giant eagle every day for thousands of years. She begs him to tell her what's going to happen to her. Prometheus, amazingly, still has deep love for humans, and tries to spare her feelings because he knows it's not getting any better anytime soon for this one. But she insists.

He tells her it's going to take a long time, but she's going to end up in Egypt, beautiful again, worshiped, and with a son named Epaphos; not only that, but in a couple of hundred years one of her descendants was going to free him.

Io blinks her cow eyes and runs off. The predictions of Prometheus came true. Io's flight took her East towards Asia, South to the land of the Amazons and, after years of tortuous wandering, she came to Egypt. When the hand of Zeus reached out and touched Io, Hera's curse was lifted. Io was restored to her youthful beauty and was allowed to live out her mortal life in peace. Why Zeus didn't just reach out and touch her a few thousand miles back is...well, the Gods are inscrutable sometimes.

Valete!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63657 From: Nida Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: the Birth Day of Rome
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes;
> the Parilia the birth day of Rome will be upon us Tuesday. I'm thinking of all the things I love about Rome:
> gorgeous poetry
> magnificent architecture
> the Forum, history
> eternal Latin language
>
> let's talk about what we love; my dream is to see
> everyone speaking Latin again. I'd love to quote an elegy of
> Propertius, I'd like to see Mare Nostrum.
> I havent been there in years and I am nostalgic for my home.
> valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>


Salve Maior,

Thank you for sharing this information with all of us. Things I love about Rome? The Religion, the principles, the history and art, even the food sounds divine.

As far as speaking Latin, I'm trying to learn but in between beefing up my French and Arabic, I think I need to prioritize and get on a set study schedule.

valete,

Pythia Theocritos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63658 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: I. OF ROMULUS AND REMUS by LENA DALKEITH

Long and long ago, it is said, Nimitur, King of Alba, was robbed of his crown, and thrust from his kingdom by his younger brother, Amulius.

 

     Now Nimitur had one daughter Ainulius, when he bad made himself king, forced this maiden to become a 'Vestal,' -- that is to say, a high priestess, and, as a Vestal, she had to make a vow never to marry. This Amulius did in order to reign in safety, for he was afraid if the daughter of Nimitur were to marry that her children might some day try to win back their rightful inheritance. However, his cunning plan failed: the maiden was loved by the god Mars; she broke her vow, and Romulus and Remus were born.

 

Amulius, as soon as he heard of the birth of the twin boys, condemned their mother to be buried alive. This was the terrible punishment in those days for vestals who broke their vows. Also, he gave orders that the babies should be thrown into the river Tiber, which was at that time in flood.

     

These two cruel things were done: the daughter of Nimitur was put to death: her children were thrown into the Tiber. Happily they fell into a shallow pool, and by a strange chance the water shrank back as if afraid to be the cause of the babies' death, and thus Romulus and Remus were saved. To them, as they lay crying helplessly under a wild fig-tree, came a great she-wolf. The beast, pitying them, stayed to nurse and mother them, feeding them with her own milk until they were old enough to take other food. Then a woodpecker came, bringing meat every day, and in this strange way, nursed by beast and bird, these two little princes grew into strong and sturdy boys.

 

One day they were found by a herdsman, who took them home to his cottage and brought them up with his own children. There for a long time they lived contentedly, helping the man to watch the flocks on the side of Mount Palatine. This herdsman was a servant of Amulius. Now the herdsmen who called Ainulius master were at war with those who belonged to Nimitur. There came a day when Nimitur's men seized Remus and carried him off to their master. Romulus followed after them, anxious to help his brother.

     

The two youths were brought before their grandfather, they being quite unknown to him and he to them, for the old king believed the twins to be dead, and they never guessed their royal birth. Nevertheless, although they were dressed in rough clothes, something in their look and bearing aroused the King's interest, and after questioning and hearing their strange story he found that they were in very truth his daughter's children, and with great joy he made himself known to them.

     

 

Romulus and Remus when they were told how King Nimitur had been dethroned, how their mother had been put to death, and they themselves thrown into the river, grew fierce and angry and vowed to be revenged on Amulius. They set out straightway for the city of Alba where Amulius was: there they slew him and restored King Nimitur to his throne again. This done, they refused to stay longer in the city of their forefathers. 'No,' they said, 'we will build a city of our own close to the spot where we were saved from death.'

 

So they returned again to that place; but soon there arose a quarrel between them as to where the city should be built. Romulus wished to build on Mount Palatine, Remus on Mount Aventine, and neither would give in to the other. What was to be done? They prayed the gods for a sign: then they agreed to watch one whole day, -- Romulus on Palatine, Remus on Aventine, -- and at sunrise on the second day he who saw a flight of birds should found the city. Remus first saw the sign. He saw six vultures flying on his left. A little later Romulus caught sight of twelve hovering over Mount Palatine, and this sign, he said, was more favourable than the other, and showed plainly whom the gods had chosen. Remus would not agree: the sign had been given to him first. Long and bitterly the brothers wrangled, at last they fought, and in the end Romulus killed Remus, either by a chance blow or in a wild moment of anger. Thus it was Romulus who first began to build on Mount Palatine, and the name of his city was Rome.

     

Now this legend, which is more than two thousand years old, you may believe or you may not, as you like: for the books which told of the first founding of Rome and the beginnings of the Roman people were destroyed. The Romans themselves believed in the legend, but now no one can really tell whether it is true, or only a tale.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63659 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Salvete Quirites!

We shouldn't let anyone treat Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
disrespectfully. He is a man of honor. He has always been looking for
concordia. If he is critizising anyone there may be reason to listen!

*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
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Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
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Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
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Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae