Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Apl 20-24, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63659 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63660 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63661 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Rome w
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63662 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63663 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Keith Sterne's resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63664 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63665 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Keith Sterne's resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63666 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63667 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: reject the proposal on removal of the magistrate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63668 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63669 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63670 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63671 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63672 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63673 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63674 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63676 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63677 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63678 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63679 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63680 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63681 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Lentulus, vis a vis Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63682 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Be calm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63683 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63684 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63685 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63686 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63687 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63688 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63689 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63690 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63691 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Sulla's style
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63692 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: [BackAlley] Protecting Maior now official NR policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63693 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63694 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Galerius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63695 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cerealia dies nefastus publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63696 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63697 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Call for Papers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63698 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: CHRISTOS ANESTI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63699 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63700 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63701 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63702 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: The Moderation of Senator Sulla & a personal opinion by Tribunus Fl.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63703 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63704 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63705 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63706 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63707 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63708 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63709 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Dictator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63710 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63711 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63712 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63713 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63714 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Gale
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63715 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63716 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63717 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Concord - Parilia Tomorrow
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63718 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Gale
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63720 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato CORRECTED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63721 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Concord - Parilia Tomorrow
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63722 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63723 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63724 From: enodia2002 Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63725 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63726 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63727 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63728 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63729 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63731 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63732 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63733 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63734 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63735 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63736 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Nefastus publicus this Tuesday
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63737 From: manuseco@hotmail.com,_hijo_de_Zeus?= Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: ANNIVERSARIVM VRBIS ORBIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63738 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63739 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Nefastus publicus this Tuesday
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63740 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63741 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: a.d. XI Kal. Mai. - the Parilia or Palilia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63742 From: peter@peterorvetti.com Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: oy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63743 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: For the Parilia: the language a lot of Romans spoke, and how to lea
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63744 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Call for Papers (Addendum)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63745 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: On The Res Publica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63747 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63748 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63749 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63750 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: LAST CALL OF CANDIDATES FOR THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63751 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Clarifying a few things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63752 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63753 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Concerning the Dies as defined by the Collegium Pontificum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63754 From: Paolo Eutimo Cristiano Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: DIES NATALIS ROMA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63755 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63756 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63757 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2762th Parilia of Rome w
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63758 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Returning...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63759 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Ro
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63760 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63761 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63762 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63763 From: Jennifer Harris Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63764 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63765 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63766 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Clarifying a few things
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63767 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63768 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63769 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63770 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63771 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63772 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Call for candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63773 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Ludi Megalenses - results
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63774 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63775 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma - Aurelianus to Germanicus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63776 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63778 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Removal of Officers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63779 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Withdrawal of Candidacy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63780 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: a.d. X Kal. Mai.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63781 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63782 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Call for Papers (Addendum)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63783 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63784 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63785 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63786 From: M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63787 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63788 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: censor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63789 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63790 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63791 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63792 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63793 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63794 From: Vaughn Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63795 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63796 From: Cn. Ambrosia Crinita Date: 2009-04-22
Subject: ML vs BA, some thoughts.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63797 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63798 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: a.d. IX Kal. Mai.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63799 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Lingua Latina
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63800 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Points to ponder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63801 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63802 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63803 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63804 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63805 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63806 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63807 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63808 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63809 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63810 From: chrisdemarco13 Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63811 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63812 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63813 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63814 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63815 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63816 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63817 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63818 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63819 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63820 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63821 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63822 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63823 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: a. d. VIII Kalendas Maias: Battle of the Crimesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63824 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63825 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63826 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: a.d. VII Kal. Mai.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63827 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63828 From: q_caelia_laeta Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Comitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63829 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63830 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63831 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63832 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63833 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63834 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63835 From: CherylS Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63836 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63837 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Parilia and Feriae Latinae photos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63838 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-24
Subject: Photos by M. Iulius Perusianus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63659 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Salvete Quirites!

We shouldn't let anyone treat Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
disrespectfully. He is a man of honor. He has always been looking for
concordia. If he is critizising anyone there may be reason to listen!

*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63660 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Q. Poplicola Quintiliano omnibusque sal

He broke the law. That has no place in Nova Roma. I'm sorry to Lentulus if
he truly means good will. But perhaps he is listening to the wrong crowd,
the crowd that tells him its ok to break laws as long as who exactly is
happy? That does not promote Concordia, but Discord! Perhaps he just had a
momentary lapse of devotion to Concordia, we all have ignored her at one
time or another. But we shouldn't be shielded from criticism. I hear the
criticism, and I take note. Lentulus has yet to admit that he broke the law,
when he clearly has.

I think a large part of it is in fact what Laenas said: there is no good way
of interpreting the law. It's too poorly written by too many people, and not
near enough Mores to make anything established. Before the Republic we had a
king. That wasn't a bad idea, even according to the ancients. The Kings did
many things for us, including great Numa who established many of our
priesthoods.

But now already a Republic, we cannot revert to kings. I said this early
(and Livia out of the spirit of discordia which she has been sowing lately
mocked it) said that I would gladly reach out to anyone seeking Concordia. I
hear Lentulus, but I don't see anything. Maior emailed me about a scholastic
concern, but she has never returned my email.

All anyone asks for now is that the law be followed, and that peace and
concord reign. But so long as the law is not followed, there cannot be
either.

Di nos incolumes custodiant!


--------------
Q. Valerius Poplicola
Quaestor et Flamen Falacer
Scriba of the Aedilis Plebis

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Christer Edling" <christer.edling@...>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:42 AM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor

> Salvete Quirites!
>
> We shouldn't let anyone treat Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> disrespectfully. He is a man of honor. He has always been looking for
> concordia. If he is critizising anyone there may be reason to listen!
>
> *****************
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
> Civis Romanus sum
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
> ************************************************
> Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
> Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63661 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Rome w
Ave Palatua et Salvete Quirites!

To honor the city of Rome and Palatua, the Protectress of Mons
Palatinus this the 2762th Parilia of Rome, which is the 11th Parilia
of Nova Roma, I will do this ceremony, as it might have been done in
ancient Rome and as I do it regulary:

"I give a grain of salt representing the beginning of the City by the
Via Salaria.

DOMINA, ANTIQVA, MATER VRBIS AETERNAE.
Lady!, Ancient One!, Mother of the Eternal City!

ADES! SALVE PALATVA
Be Thou present! Hail, O Palatua!

{supplicant performs the Adoratio, and continues:}

TE {touching breast) PRECOR QVAESOQVE
I pray and beseech Thee,

VT DES PACEM PROPITIA VENIAMQVE
that Thou mayest propitiously grant peace and favor

VRBI ET ORBI;
to the City and the World;

VTI NVNQVAM DESOLES TVAM POPVLVM ROMANVM,
that Thou mayest never abandon Thy Roman People,

HIC ET NVNCT VBICVMQVE ET SEMPER.
here and now, everywhere and always.

ERGO TIBI OFFERO HOC THVS:
Therefore, to Thee I offer this grain:

{The supplicant now offers a few grains, then concludes with the
words:}

ITA EST! ILLICET.
So mote it be! So may it be granted!"


*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63662 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Ro
Thank you for this!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Christer Edling" <christer.edling@...>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:46 AM
To: "Nova Roma - Main list" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Nova Roma - Senatus" <SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com>; "Nova Roma
Announce" <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th
Parilia of Rome which is the 10th Parilia of Nova Roma

> Ave Palatua et Salvete Quirites!
>
> To honor the city of Rome and Palatua, the Protectress of Mons
> Palatinus this the 2762th Parilia of Rome, which is the 11th Parilia
> of Nova Roma, I will do this ceremony, as it might have been done in
> ancient Rome and as I do it regulary:
>
> "I give a grain of salt representing the beginning of the City by the
> Via Salaria.
>
> DOMINA, ANTIQVA, MATER VRBIS AETERNAE.
> Lady!, Ancient One!, Mother of the Eternal City!
>
> ADES! SALVE PALATVA
> Be Thou present! Hail, O Palatua!
>
> {supplicant performs the Adoratio, and continues:}
>
> TE {touching breast) PRECOR QVAESOQVE
> I pray and beseech Thee,
>
> VT DES PACEM PROPITIA VENIAMQVE
> that Thou mayest propitiously grant peace and favor
>
> VRBI ET ORBI;
> to the City and the World;
>
> VTI NVNQVAM DESOLES TVAM POPVLVM ROMANVM,
> that Thou mayest never abandon Thy Roman People,
>
> HIC ET NVNCT VBICVMQVE ET SEMPER.
> here and now, everywhere and always.
>
> ERGO TIBI OFFERO HOC THVS:
> Therefore, to Thee I offer this grain:
>
> {The supplicant now offers a few grains, then concludes with the
> words:}
>
> ITA EST! ILLICET.
> So mote it be! So may it be granted!"
>
>
> *****************
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
> Civis Romanus sum
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
> ************************************************
> Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
> Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63663 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Keith Sterne's resignation
Salvete

To avoid misunderstanding I want to share with everyone the message that I received yesterday from Popillius Laenas on his resignation.

 Yesterday upon my return from a provincial meeting I met the news of the resignation of C. Popillius Laenas.
 
This resignation was not a surprise to me because Popillius Laenas announced it a few days ago in a message received by his collega and by me.
 
Of all the ways it is sad new.
 
I have written Laenas to tell him that there is people who makes wrong guesses about his resignation and I have also asked him to make a public statement about his motivations for such decisions.
 
At the end of this message I forward (with Laenas permission) the reply received.
 
Valete
 
M. CVR. COMPLVTENSIS


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gaius Popillius <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
Date: 2009/4/19
Subject: Re: Resignation
To: "M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS" <complutensis@ gmail.com>


Salve Consul,
 
Thank you. I am sad I have left as well.  Eight plus years is a long time to work on something.  It just became too much for me, and I apologize to those who I have let down especially Censor Paulinus.
 
The reason for my resignation was really mental strain.  I was getting very little joy from my membership in Nova Roma and experiencing considerable distress.  It was even affecting my moods such that my girlfriend would notice.
 
There are two main reasons:
 
1.    Lucius Cornelius Sulla.  He was once a friend.  I found him on Facebook and invited him to return to Nova Roma.  My colleague and I put him back in the Senate.  In my opinion, he repaid me by using me to help further his vendetta against Nova Roma.  In particular he has it in for you and your colleague because of the trial of Cincinnatus last year.  I do not agree with the way the matter was handled, but I do not believe you and your colleague acted in bad faith.  That is something I could no longer believe of Sulla.  I do not think his constant threats of macronational action will ever cease, and it is one of the things that stop the Republic from achieving anything. 
 
Anyone reading the Back Alley can see where Sulla has vowed to "punish" those in Nova Roma who he feels have acted wrongly.  He has phenomenal energy and I do not think he will stop his vendetta.
 
I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who sees this as a game.
 
2.    There is no final rule of law in Nova Roma except the Tribunes who are ineffective.  It seems that no matter who takes and action or what that action is, one group applauds it and the other says it is illegal.  There is no mechanism to decide who is right. The squabble just go back and forth with each side just repeating the same argument over and over.  I lost my faith that this could ever be changed.
 
I have been told that some cives are saying I left over differences with the Praetores and/or Maior.  That is not true.  I admire Praetor Albucius greatly although I do not always agree with him.  I also think Marinus is a good and honorable man although he may have overstepped his authority on one or two occasions (as much as he might think the moderation of Sulla was warranted, for example, I believe it was improper).
 
As for Maior, forgive me for saying it, but she is a fool who has no place in the Senate.  I would never leave because of her.
 
You have my permission to share this.  If you ever come to Memphis, Tennessee USA I would be please to meet you as well!
 
Vale bene,
 
C. Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63664 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Galerio Paulino L. Coruncanio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
  

  

Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato
 
To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.

    ATS:  Even if violates the ToS?  
 
Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.

    ATS:  This is not entirely true.  We used the Yahoo ToS...AND moderation WAS in place, as it had been since the beginning, continued by every praetor before and after.  We simply did not have a moderation edictum, which is nothing more that a statement of what is, and is not, acceptable on a given list.  I happen to think that having one is a good idea, lest there be any question about this.  
 
The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.

    ATS:  No, but it might have.  Fortunately the hotheads may have been in hibernation then.  
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Valete.  
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com> , Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>





  
    
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63665 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Keith Sterne's resignation
Q. Valerius Poplicola M. Curiato Complutensi sal.

Salve, Consul. Thank you for sharing this whole letter. It seems obvious now
that Lentulus, in promoting Discord, only left those things which would be
inflammatory towards Sulla and harmful to the Republic. Thank you, though,
for your correction and for Laenas' full thoughts.

This, fellow Citizens, posting the *whole* truth, is promotion of Concordia,
not cutting up a letter and hiding what someone actually wrote.

Di nos omnes incolumes custodiant! May the gods keep us all safe!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "MCC" <complutensis@...>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 1:35 AM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation

> Salvete
>
> To avoid misunderstanding I want to share with everyone the message that
> I received yesterday from Popillius Laenas on his resignation.
>
> Yesterday upon my return from a provincial meeting I met the news of
> the resignation of C. Popillius Laenas.
>
> This resignation was not a surprise to me because Popillius Laenas
> announced it a few days ago in a message received by his collega and by
> me.
>
> Of all the ways it is sad new.
>
> I have written Laenas to tell him that there is people who makes wrong
> guesses about his resignation and I have also asked him to make a public
> statement about his motivations for such decisions.
>
> At the end of this message I forward (with Laenas permission) the reply
> received.
>
> Valete
>
> M. CVR. COMPLVTENSIS
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Gaius Popillius* <gaiuspopillius@...
> <mailto:gaiuspopillius@...>>
> Date: 2009/4/19
> Subject: Re: Resignation
> To: "M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS" <complutensis@...
> <mailto:complutensis@...>>
>
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> Thank you. I am sad I have left as well. Eight plus years is a long
> time to work on something. It just became too much for me, and I
> apologize to those who I have let down especially Censor Paulinus.
>
> The reason for my resignation was really mental strain. I was getting
> very little joy from my membership in Nova Roma and experiencing
> considerable distress. It was even affecting my moods such that my
> girlfriend would notice.
>
> There are two main reasons:
>
> 1. Lucius Cornelius Sulla. He was once a friend. I found him on
> Facebook and invited him to return to Nova Roma. My colleague and I put
> him back in the Senate. In my opinion, he repaid me by using me to help
> further his vendetta against Nova Roma. In particular he has it in for
> you and your colleague because of the trial of Cincinnatus last year. I
> do not agree with the way the matter was handled, but I do not believe
> you and your colleague acted in bad faith. That is something I could no
> longer believe of Sulla. I do not think his constant threats of
> macronational action will ever cease, and it is one of the things that
> stop the Republic from achieving anything.
>
> Anyone reading the Back Alley can see where Sulla has vowed to "punish"
> those in Nova Roma who he feels have acted wrongly. He has phenomenal
> energy and I do not think he will stop his vendetta.
>
> I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to
> Nova Roma. I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do
> not see how that is possible. Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For
> him to say otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with
> no ethics who sees this as a game.
>
> 2. There is no final rule of law in Nova Roma except the Tribunes who
> are ineffective. It seems that no matter who takes and action or what
> that action is, one group applauds it and the other says it is illegal.
> There is no mechanism to decide who is right. The squabble just go back
> and forth with each side just repeating the same argument over and
> over. I lost my faith that this could ever be changed.
>
> I have been told that some cives are saying I left over differences with
> the Praetores and/or Maior. That is not true. I admire Praetor
> Albucius greatly although I do not always agree with him. I also think
> Marinus is a good and honorable man although he may have overstepped his
> authority on one or two occasions (as much as he might think the
> moderation of Sulla was warranted, for example, I believe it was
> improper).
>
> As for Maior, forgive me for saying it, but she is a fool who has no
> place in the Senate. I would never leave because of her.
>
> You have my permission to share this. If you ever come to Memphis,
> Tennessee USA I would be please to meet you as well!
>
> Vale bene,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63666 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
Re: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy

  A. Tullia Scholastica P. Corvae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

  

Gawd!!!!

We're acting like a bunch of five year-olds, all of us, playng games of intercessio and veto back and forth, or gawking at the train-wreck as we read.

    ATS:  Some of the members of this list find accident scenes terribly entertaining, as well as fighting in or out of the boxing ring.  Mountains are being made out of molehills; charges are being leveled for no apparent reason, and the crowd which has plenty of time on its hands and is apparently afflicted by some biochemical need for abnormally intense external stimulation is enjoying the spectacle immensely.  

Isn't anyone tired of this?  Is anyone ready to forgive, and do something productive to help Nova Roma thrive, instead of do everything in our power to destroy it?

    ATS:  Those of us who are normal got tired of this nonsense long ago.  It seems that some really do prefer to destroy Nova Roma, perhaps so that they can make it over in their own image...maybe something like the cloaca maxima.  It seems that anyone who has a sense of propriety is being tarred as a heinous criminal, and the higher magistrates (who conveniently may be affiliated with a political faction different from that of most of the complaining tribesfolk) are being harried.  

Nope?  Didn't think so.

    ATS:  Of course not!  It’s more fun to tear everything down.  The demolition derby is on!  

No moderator of a mailing list can ever curtail anyone's freedom of speech; they can only curtail _where_ we speak.  We are always free to speak to those who care to hear--in private email.

To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

    ATS:  Indeed.  These mouthy lads don’t know what censorship really is.  Maybe Lentulus or Sabinus could tell them, for they have experience under Communism, and almost certainly encountered the real thing.  Perhaps some of the Spaniards could as well; I know that Latinist Avitus has no love for the regime of his youth.  Moreover, there is in fact almost no so-called censorship on this list; spammers do suffer censorship (does anyone care?), and some controversial posts are left for the praetors to examine.  That may delay them until the praetores are awake (Shocking! People sleep!), but Yahoo has produced far worse delays.  The majority of people who have posted non-controversial posts often enough are off moderation, and their posts are not read before being accepted.  Those who have never posted (mostly non-citizens) are another matter; we know nothing about them, and some of us think that prudence is a better course than the alternative.  

Deal with it privately, the way you're expected to at your job.  Stop inflaming the entire maiing list with this nonsense.
    
    ATS:  Assentior, et omnino assentior.  

P. Corva, not feeling particularly Gaudialis at the moment.  May gaudium return to your life!

    ATS:  Can’t say as I blame you.  

Vale, et valete.  

  
    

     
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/63624
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63667 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: reject the proposal on removal of the magistrate
Salvete Tribuni Plebis,
 
I, Titus Flavius Aquila, call upon you to reject this proposal.
 
Di vos incolumes custodiant
Titus Flavius Aquila
Quaestor
Legatus Pro Praetore Provincia Germania

 


 

 
--- El dom, 19/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: domingo, 19 abril, 2009 11:39

Cato consules omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

Earlier I called for the tribunes to gather the People to vote on the removal of magistrates from office. I realized that under the law, both Nova Roman and US law, the comitia which elected them must vote to remove them.

So consuls I charge you, in accordance with the governing act of the corporation, with including in the upcoming elections the provisions to allow the People to vote in the comitia centuriata on your removal from office, as well as the removal of the praetors.

If you refuse, I will contact the Secretary of State of the State of Maine to begin the judicial process by which you will be *forced* to call a vote. This is not a choice, consuls. You can do this the easy way - which should cause you no concern if you are convinced you are performing your duties faithfully under the law - or you can do this the hard way, with the US looking over your shoulder.

Again please remember that under US law officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.

I give you until 1700h (Rome time) on Wednesday, 22 April, to reply.

If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote.

Valete,

Cato



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63668 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation
Salve Consul,
 
thank you for sharing this information with us.
 
Now I do understand why our Censor Laenas left Nova Roma.
 
Optime vale
Titus Flavius Aquila


Von: MCC <complutensis@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Montag, den 20. April 2009, 08:35:36 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Nova-Roma] Keith Sterne's resignation

Salvete

To avoid misunderstanding I want to share with everyone the message that I received yesterday from Popillius Laenas on his resignation.

 Yesterday upon my return from a provincial meeting I met the news of the resignation of C. Popillius Laenas.
 
This resignation was not a surprise to me because Popillius Laenas announced it a few days ago in a message received by his collega and by me.
 
Of all the ways it is sad new.
 
I have written Laenas to tell him that there is people who makes wrong guesses about his resignation and I have also asked him to make a public statement about his motivations for such decisions.
 
At the end of this message I forward (with Laenas permission) the reply received.
 
Valete
 
M. CVR. COMPLVTENSIS


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gaius Popillius <gaiuspopillius@ gmail.com>
Date: 2009/4/19
Subject: Re: Resignation
To: "M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS " <complutensis@ gmail.com>


Salve Consul,
 
Thank you. I am sad I have left as well.  Eight plus years is a long time to work on something.  It just became too much for me, and I apologize to those who I have let down especially Censor Paulinus.
 
The reason for my resignation was really mental strain.  I was getting very little joy from my membership in Nova Roma and experiencing considerable distress.  It was even affecting my moods such that my girlfriend would notice.
 
There are two main reasons:
 
1.    Lucius Cornelius Sulla.  He was once a friend.  I found him on Facebook and invited him to return to Nova Roma.  My colleague and I put him back in the Senate.  In my opinion, he repaid me by using me to help further his vendetta against Nova Roma.  In particular he has it in for you and your colleague because of the trial of Cincinnatus last year.  I do not agree with the way the matter was handled, but I do not believe you and your colleague acted in bad faith.  That is something I could no longer believe of Sulla.  I do not think his constant threats of macronational action will ever cease, and it is one of the things that stop the Republic from achieving anything. 
 
Anyone reading the Back Alley can see where Sulla has vowed to "punish" those in Nova Roma who he feels have acted wrongly.  He has phenomenal energy and I do not think he will stop his vendetta.
 
I am embarrassed and ashamed that I had any role in returning him to Nova Roma.  I think Sulla should be dismissed from Nova Roma, but I do not see how that is possible.  Sulla, himself, knows these reasons. For him to say otherwise is just more political positioning by someone with no ethics who sees this as a game.
 
2.    There is no final rule of law in Nova Roma except the Tribunes who are ineffective.  It seems that no matter who takes and action or what that action is, one group applauds it and the other says it is illegal.  There is no mechanism to decide who is right. The squabble just go back and forth with each side just repeating the same argument over and over.  I lost my faith that this could ever be changed.
 
I have been told that some cives are saying I left over differences with the Praetores and/or Maior.  That is not true.  I admire Praetor Albucius greatly although I do not always agree with him.  I also think Marinus is a good and honorable man although he may have overstepped his authority on one or two occasions (as much as he might think the moderation of Sulla was warranted, for example, I believe it was improper).
 
As for Maior, forgive me for saying it, but she is a fool who has no place in the Senate..  I would never leave because of her.
 
You have my permission to share this.  If you ever come to Memphis, Tennessee USA I would be please to meet you as well!
 
Vale bene,
 
C. Popillius Laenas / Keith Sterne



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63669 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

It's as easy as saying "yes" or "no". I am not asking about how people could express their ideas. I'am asking, for the fourth time (and I'm getting tired of circumventions) if senators would have total immunity to say anything in other lists without any limit, without being subject to any edictum de sermone or simmilar.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:43

Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
 
Asked and answered twice.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:55:58 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or support total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41


Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
 
Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
 
The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
 
As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
 
All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Salvete

The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

Valete

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
> >
> > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
> >
>
> Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
> constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
> intercessio against the constitution.
>
> Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
> further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
>
> Vale, Pius.
>







Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63670 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C
Salve Plauta,
 
this is well below 50% of last years tax revenues.
 
I have talked to several former tax payers of my provincia Germania, they have stated to me, why bother to pay taxes
when reading all the negative mails and news on the ML. Of course I tried to convince them to pay their taxes, but I do understand
their reasons for not doing so right now. They need to see a positive development of our Republic !
 
I expect at least a drop of 30-40% of tax revenues this year for our Republic.
 
For my provincia Germania, despite all my efforts, I predict a drop of tax income for at least 60%.
I am currently collecting all the tax payments for my provincia and will transfer it to the Aerarium this week.
 
Optime vale
Titus Flavius Aquila


Von: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: Montag, den 20. April 2009, 01:14:08 Uhr
Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roman taxpayers 2762 A.U.C

Salve Pauline,
this is a small miracle, considering the amount of purposeful and deceitful work of discrediting Nova Roma that's going on at the hands of Sulla, Cato, and Caesar.

If their aim was to kill Nova Roma, they only succeeded by half so far. Of course they won't stop trying.

Vale,
Livia

>
>
> Salvete
>
> FYI
>
> As of today we have 106 Nova Roman taxpayers. This is less than half of what we usually have.
> There are sill 11 days left before the deadline to pay, on time, for this year.
>
> Valete
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63671 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Valerio Poplicolae SPD.

Nice. Again another accusation of "breaking the law".
When Sulla and Equitius Cato launch threats about starting large and expensive lawsuits, without saying at all what are the presumpt illegalities commited (myself and other citizens asked two weeks ago but we did not got any answer), they are "expressing rightfully".

But when Pontifex Lentulus expresses his ideas, he is "braking the law", and when other people speaks, they "don't know what are saying" (in the best case) or are "launching inflamatory attacks".

When Sulla expresses his will about "making all who 'illegally' expelled him and another civis pay for it", this is "free speech". When Pontifex Lentulus explains why a citizen resigned from his office and citizenship to avoid rumour and grudge, it's a personal revenge.

Those very different ways of measuring "free speech" are curious indeed.


--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escribió:
De: Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 7:52

Q. Poplicola Quintiliano omnibusque sal

He broke the law. That has no place in Nova Roma. I'm sorry to Lentulus if
he truly means good will. But perhaps he is listening to the wrong crowd,
the crowd that tells him its ok to break laws as long as who exactly is
happy? That does not promote Concordia, but Discord! Perhaps he just had a
momentary lapse of devotion to Concordia, we all have ignored her at one
time or another. But we shouldn't be shielded from criticism. I hear the
criticism, and I take note. Lentulus has yet to admit that he broke the law,
when he clearly has.

I think a large part of it is in fact what Laenas said: there is no good way
of interpreting the law. It's too poorly written by too many people, and not
near enough Mores to make anything established. Before the Republic we had a
king. That wasn't a bad idea, even according to the ancients. The Kings did
many things for us, including great Numa who established many of our
priesthoods.

But now already a Republic, we cannot revert to kings. I said this early
(and Livia out of the spirit of discordia which she has been sowing lately
mocked it) said that I would gladly reach out to anyone seeking Concordia. I
hear Lentulus, but I don't see anything. Maior emailed me about a scholastic
concern, but she has never returned my email.

All anyone asks for now is that the law be followed, and that peace and
concord reign. But so long as the law is not followed, there cannot be
either.

Di nos incolumes custodiant!

------------ --
Q. Valerius Poplicola
Quaestor et Flamen Falacer
Scriba of the Aedilis Plebis

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
From: "Christer Edling" <christer.edling@ telia.com>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:42 AM
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor

> Salvete Quirites!
>
> We shouldn't let anyone treat Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> disrespectfully. He is a man of honor. He has always been looking for
> concordia. If he is critizising anyone there may be reason to listen!
>
> ************ *****
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
> Civis Romanus sum
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Main_ Page
> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
> Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
> Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
>
>
>
>
>
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63672 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Dear Kristoffer,
 
 I also thought that you resigned. Aren't you the former praetor Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus?
Vale,
Diana

 

From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 1:05:10
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:

> The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any measure
>

Here is what you wrote:

"I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."

Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.

/Pius

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63673 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Intercessio
Salve,

Was not suposed the people have the right to freely express their ideas (even if they are binding or not)? What changed from yesterday?

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> escribió:
De: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 10:59

Dear Kristoffer,
 
 I also thought that you resigned. Aren't you the former praetor Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus?
Vale,
Diana

 

From: Kristoffer From <from@darkeye. net>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 1:05:10
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any measure
>

Here is what you wrote:

"I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."

Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.

/Pius


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63674 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
Lucius Coruncanius Cato Annaeo Regulo SPD.

I hope you recover from those exams!

To the issue, if Senator Equitius Cato feels something is going wrong and wanted to do things according to law, as he repeats ad nauseam since two weeks, why he does not read the Constitution?
The propper thing is to prepare a law and raise it to the comitia centuriata. It's written on the constitution, plain and simple.
As he did not answered this questions, I assume he knows he is not right, and because of that he is threating to go to upper authorities, even when there are internal rules and procedures to follow in this such case. To me, this is blackmail.

If the Consuls accept the blackmail, the unconstitutional vote takes place and the few citizens left here accept and reassert the magistracies (elected legally only 4 months ago without opposition), what will be the next move? May be declaring the unconstitutionality of calling a vote when the correct procedure should have been raising a law to the comitia centuriata? And, after that? This nonsense can go on until the end of time.

People are tired, so to all of accusators, I demand you (again) to speak sense and tell publicly what exactly are those presumpt "illegalities" commited, by whom and when. If not, then you have nothing, and then you are appealing "upper authorities" to try to throw away some magistrates just because you don't like them.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> escribió:
De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:33

Salve,
 
You are most welcome and my thanks to you as well for your courteous rebuttal. All my energy is wasted on exams, I have none left to yell and be exciting. =)
 
Didn't Cato call for the consuls to call for a vote in the comitia? If he himself is calling for the vote it is illegal, but I had understood he was calling for those with the authority to do so call the matter to a vote, else he would take the matter to external authorities.
 
I hope Senator Cato does not object to me using a snippet of his previous post. It goes as follows:
 
"If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am, in fact, giving the consuls the very opportunity you demand - that they call the comitia centuriata in conjunction with the already scheduled elections and have this vote taken under our - "our" as in we citizens' - internal procedures."
 
I had interpreted this as him requesting the presiding magistrates to call for a vote. He believes that there is dereliction of duties, and so he has called for the proper authorities to call the matter to a vote in the comitia. If the internal procedures aren't followed he intends to go to 'higher authorities' as it were. It is his right to do so, so I cannot object to him doing so should we refuse to allow him to exercise that right here.
 
With blackmail one demands a bribe in order to avoid negative consequences. Here the consequence is foregone. There will be a vote. He merely wishes to go through the NR legal system rather than bringing in American authorities. That is the 'courtesy' I was referring to.
 
What would you have Cato do amice? Other than simply drop the whole thing of course. I have heard enough to believe that that will not be happening. Regardless of whether or not I agree with Cato, I support him doing what he believes it is his duty to do. If the majority disagrees, then the vote will show this and that will be it. To believe laws are being and then doing nothing would be more of a transgression in my view.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus
 
 

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

I thank you for your answer. It's hard to find someone who speaks sense and quiet these weeks. :)

But, I must stand within my position. Equitius Cato has NOT the right to call for a vote to remove any magistrate, because the current constitution says, in Chap. IV A:
"Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him."

As far as I know, a citizen's "call for a vote against a magistrate" it's not a "law originating in the comitia". And because of this, if Equitius Cato says "if I don't hear about you I will force the vote" is, here and everywhere and despite of useless rethoric, blackmail.

If Equitius Cato would have a "courtesy", then he sould do things propperly.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:38

Salve,
 
I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
 
If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
 
Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
 
Vale,
T. Annæus Regulus

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
" If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

--
Di te incolumem custodiant.
L. Coruncanius Cato
Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

--- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

Cato Catoni sal.

Salve Cato.

I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
>
> I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
>
> --
>
> Di te incolumem custodiant.
>
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
>
> Candidate to Aedilis Curulis




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63676 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
On 4/20/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> wrote:

To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

So what you're saying is we should never complain about anything because there will always be someone who is worse off.  If everyone took that attitude there would never be any improvement anywhere in the world.

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63677 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
Subject: Points to ponder
Attachments :
    Points to ponder Salvete.

    A correspondent sent me this yesterday.  There are words of wisdom here which the contentious among us should heed.  There are far too many disturbed people who yield to their emotions, and that, too, to the negative ones.   Let us keep things on an even keel, and exercise the more pleasant emotions if we exercise those at all; as it says, the 60 seconds of anger, etc., cost a full minute of happiness.  


    ========================================================

    Today is International Disturbed People's Day




    Please send an encouraging message to a disturbed friend... just as I've done and I know a lot of disturbed people............

        

       [we have a slew of them here...]



    *
    Every sixty seconds you spend angry, upset or mad, is a full minute of happiness you'll never get back.




    Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance

    =============================================

     
      One could, however, make a case for a more sedate version of said activity, as this group looks a bit distoibed in another sense.  

        Valete,

        The usually cheerful magistra.


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63678 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    You are incorrect both in general and particular, Coruncanius. You wrote:

    "When Sulla and Equitius Cato launch threats about starting large and expensive lawsuits, without saying at all what are the presumpt illegalities commited (myself and other citizens asked two weeks ago but we did not got any answer), they are 'expressing rightfully'. "

    I, for one, am not threatening a lawsuit.

    The list of illegalities committed by the current magistrates has been cited over and over and over again; the list simply gets bigger almost daily as they blunder into some new error.

    Talk about not getting an answer! After you copy the edictum de sermone twice to this List with all kinds of big letters, I asked you to explain how the post of mine was deleted violated the edictum. Your answer was basically "if the praetor did it it must be OK". You think that's a good foundation for government? "If he was arrested he must be guilty." Maybe that makes sense where you live, but not in the United States, and not under Nova Roman law.

    I have called on the consuls to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the law of Nova Roma.

    If they refuse, I will ask the United States to step in and force the officers of the corporation to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the governing act of the corporation.

    What I have asked is clearly within the law. Refusal is not. They have a choice: do it under our own internal legal power or be forced to do it by the external legal power. This is not difficult to understand.

    Why are you all so afraid of allowing the People to vote?

    Vale,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63679 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    You wrote:

    "To the issue, if Senator Equitius Cato feels something is going wrong and wanted to do things according to law, as he repeats ad nauseam since two weeks, why he does not read the Constitution?
    The propper thing is to prepare a law and raise it to the comitia centuriata. It's written on the constitution, plain and simple."

    So your argument here is that I should read the Constitution and ask for the comitia centuriata to be called.

    And I have quoted the exact clause in the Constitution that gives the People the right to vote and asked that the comitia centuriata be called.

    Yes it is plain and simple. You support me.

    Vale,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63680 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

    Salve!

    Cute! Sounds a little like one of those "send this to 25 of your very best friends by 9am and you'll get a surprise but if you don't send it your pet will probably die!" kind of emails.

    Scholastica, I *was* very angry when my posts started getting deleted and I was put on moderation. What I do with every second of my life is my own business, but thanks for the heads up.

    The only thing that disturbs me is that some people believe it's perfectly acceptable to do whatever they want regardless of what the law says.

    Breaking the rules is a delightful idea until you're sitting in front of a judge who is asking for the defense to make its case.

    Vale!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63681 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Lentulus, vis a vis Sulla's style
    Avete omnes;

    I am asking that some Concorde be extended in this, towards both men.

    Valete - Venator
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63682 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Be calm
    Now calm down Lentulus. You are overstating the situation, however understandable that might be.

    There are those who work quietly and patiently and cooperatively and then there are those who tear down, complain, and obstruct.

    Lentulus, I know from experience that you are the first type, indeed, anyone who has eyes and ears open knows this. It is always shocking to people like yourself when the second type shows up, and probably your first reaction is that it is such a destructive waste of time that it must come from an evil place. But this isn't so, it is just another side of human nature, sad to say. We sometimes have to suffer through these episodes, like having a bad cold, unpleasant but unavoidable.

    MLA






    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > This is Sulla.
    >
    > Evil.
    >
    > What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?
    >
    > He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?
    >
    >
    >
    > --- Lun 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
    > Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
    > Oggetto: [BackAlley] Lentulus's post
    > A: "BackAlley" <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
    > Data: Lunedì 20 Aprile 2009, 04:54
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You know.  I don't care you posted it on the ML.
    >
    > I just love the smell of fear.  :)  You sniping at me...I love the thought that I am a threat!
    >
    > Feel that cold wind blowing at your back, Lentulus - that is the new direction NR is going to. 
    >
    >
    > No one trusts you.  No one trusts your cronies.
    >
    > And it will be a bitch of an uphill battle for you to regain that.  Because YOU lost it. 
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63683 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
    Salve
     
    The can say anything they like, as can any citizens as long as it does not
    rise to being "a clear and imminent treat to the republic".
     
    If some one is placed or going to be placed on moderation they have to be told.
    If the moderation is made it must be done by edict so it is public. The act of moderation
    has to be known in order for it to be appealed by the citizen to the Tribunes.
     
    Does this help?
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus

     

    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:26:19 +0000
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

    It's as easy as saying "yes" or "no". I am not asking about how people could express their ideas. I'am asking, for the fourth time (and I'm getting tired of circumventions) if senators would have total immunity to say anything in other lists without any limit, without being subject to any edictum de sermone or simmilar.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:43

    Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
     
    Asked and answered twice.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     


    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:55:58 +0000
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

    I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or support total immunity for senators?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41


    Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
    To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
     
    Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
     
    The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     



    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
    Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

    Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
     
    As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
    filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
     
    All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
    I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     



    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

    Salvete

    The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

    In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

    The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

    Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

    Valete

    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
    Censor

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
    >
    > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
    > > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
    > >
    > > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
    > >
    >
    > Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
    >
    > Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
    > constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
    > intercessio against the constitution.
    >
    > Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
    > further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
    >
    > Vale, Pius.
    >







    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63684 From: Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    Salve Scholastica 
     
    You are in heap bid trouble now.
     
    You  know you are not allowed to break the Senate's seal.
     
    Next you be sharing the pictures of the Saturnalia celebations, lamp shades and all.
     
    Shame
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus
     


    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: fororom@...
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:48:49 -0400
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Points to ponder



    Salvete.

    A correspondent sent me this yesterday.  There are words of wisdom here which the contentious among us should heed.  There are far too many disturbed people who yield to their emotions, and that, too, to the negative ones.   Let us keep things on an even keel, and exercise the more pleasant emotions if we exercise those at all; as it says, the 60 seconds of anger, etc., cost a full minute of happiness.  


    ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========

    Today is International Disturbed People's Day




    Please send an encouraging message to a disturbed friend... just as I've done and I know a lot of disturbed people...... ......

        
       [we have a slew of them here...]



    *
    Every sixty seconds you spend angry, upset or mad, is a full minute of happiness you'll never get back.




    Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance
    ============ ========= ========= ========= ======

     
      One could, however, make a case for a more sedate version of said activity, as this group looks a bit distoibed in another sense.  

        Valete,

        The usually cheerful magistra.





    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63685 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    Salve Scholastica,

    I'm surprised at you: you defend censorship by claiming that there are 13 year olds on this list (who I've yet to hear from) and now your advising that we all 'kiss slowly'. If I wrote that you'd say that I was corrupting minors.

    Diana Octavia

    ________________________________
    From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 11:48:49
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Points to ponder

    Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63686 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
    NR is a corporation.

    Can we please have some reality. Is that too much to ask?

    NR is not a nation. It might aspire to be more than it is. But at its current existence it is a corporation and functions ALONG those lines.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato Equito Catoni SPD.
    >
    > Good for you! Are you in the Praetorship now? No. So... if you want to change thinks, try to run again for Praetor when the time comes. Meanwhile, accept the rules and let the people do their work. This used to be called "democracy".
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
    > De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Free expression of ideas
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:46
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato Coruncanio sal.
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    >
    >
    > Yep, he's right. A whole *year* without an edict telling people what they could or could not - or even should or should not - say.
    >
    >
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63687 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Sulla's style
    He did not ask permission. He just took it upon himself. Typical. No wonder no one trusts him anymore.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lentulus;
    >
    > I do not care what your motives are; forwarding another person's
    > posts, outside of where they were made, without their express
    > permission is not just bad netiquette, but it is just plain wrong.
    >
    > Flamen Concordia, indeed.
    >
    > Venator
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63688 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
    >
    > gualterus_graecus wrote:
    > > Notice Pius' response to the tribune about Sulla being an enemy of the republic, which was, at the very least, inflammatory.
    > >
    >
    > Salve, Gualtere.
    >
    > Hardly - Sulla threatens with lawsuits on an almost continual basis. This is a fact and makes him a very real threat to the res publica. Pointing out FACTUAL truth, as opposed to the highly subjective "personal" truth of some, Cato for instance, is not inflammatory speech.
    >
    > Cato whom, by the way, is currently threatening with using US laws against the res publica, in this very thread. Which makes him a threat in the same category as Sulla. Use our internal systems or be acknowledged as the traitors of the res publica and dangers to it that you are.
    >
    > As to why my post was let through, I have been a member on this list since it was created. I am not moderated until my posts make me so.
    >
    > Vale, Pius.


    the law suits are over you (TPTB) not follwing the law.
    were would not be all this up-set if you guys just follwed the law NovaRoma and usa and maine law.
    MCF
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63689 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvet;
    >
    >
    > I've started a new thread about what we love about Rome.
    >

    What I love about Roma
    RULE OF LAW.
    and when NovaRoma is following the rule of law I will love NR again.
    MCF
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63690 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Sulla's style
    Earlier this evening Lentulus forwarded a post that I made on the BA to the Main List.

    I do not hold it against Lentulus that he did that. I will not hide who I am! This is who I am on the back alley. Outspoken, Abrasive and completely upfront about my feelings no matter what the topic. On the back alley I can be honest about how angry I am about the inconsistency of the application of laws in NR. Our lack of corporate compliance and a general disregard for our magistrates to take the necessary steps to uphold the laws of Nova Roma! When I see magistrates continuing with unethical, negligent and illegal behavior I get upset and I am free to vent in the back alley. However, on the NR main list I tone down my responses to fit the censored environment - I observe the rules.

    If you want free and open dialogue with me - you will need to come to the back alley. There you will be just as free as I am to voice your opinions and agree and/or disagree with me. Lentulus wants to show you the real me - Well he showed part of it. He did not show all of the real me. But the message that I have is the same no matter if it is on the BA, ML or Senate. That message is simple:

    Enough of the Censorship!
    Enough of the Illegality!
    Enough of the Non-Compliance with Nova Roma's laws and Maine Laws
    Enough of the double standards!
    Enough of ignoring the Corproate status!

    I will not apologize for being me. Nor will I be intimidated. Nor will I do my best to make sure those who are accountable are held into account! Not until Nova Roma is in compliance with its own laws, Maine laws and the law is distributed in a fair, evenhanded and dispassionate manner!

    These are the goals I am working towards. I hope you will help me achieve those objectives!

    Respectfully,

    Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63691 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Sulla's style
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit

    Don't let him get you down.  Think positive.  Think Concordia, and live your life to the fullest.

    Vale;

    Caeso Buteo

    On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:


    This is Sulla.

    Evil.

    What he thinks of himself? How can he use such words?

    He is cruel. How one can trust in a person that uses this evil style...?




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63692 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: [BackAlley] Protecting Maior now official NR policy
    > Your post is rejected because it contains factual error that would harm
    > citizen M. Hortensia Maior's name and also would cause even more fervent
    > debate and hatred based on this factual misstatement of yours.

    This is known as the Streisand Effect.

    A few years ago, American actress Barbara Streisand sued to have photos of her
    house removed from a research project on erosion that had photographed every part
    of the coastline where she lived. When this became publicized, hundreds of thousands
    of people - who would have otherwise never learned of the obscure research project,
    or cared in the slightest where some actress lived - went looking for, and viewed,
    those photos.

    Lentulus, by censoring the original message, you actually drew attention
    to its content.

    Censorship only works when a governemnt controls all means of communications,
    such as in the Soviet Union. In a free country, attempts at censorship merely
    cause enraged people to take their speech elsewhere.

    That's why the Praetores' ham-fisted attempts at list moderation are an
    utter failure. Everyone knows of the BackAlley list, so any viewpoints
    that they try to suppress will be seen anyway, by just as many people on
    the BA list; and the censorship attempt will provoke even more outrage
    than the original matter.

    M. Octavius Gracchus, 09.15 CDT.

    --
    Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
    author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
    CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63693 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US
    I have replied to your request for a pontifex and asked for details about your event.  I have not received a response.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


    -----Original Message-----
    From: c.aqvillivs_rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 9:12 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US



    Salvete omnes,
    Next week the first Roman Museum Bistro opens in America Austorientalis! It presents Ancient Roman history, NR and offers also authentic Roman High Cuisine prepared by an expert who cooks this way since over 15 years.
    Planned is a ceremony of the Religio Romana also representing NR and the Military.
    Maior has offerd help but does not respond to e-mail. 
    After some postings here nothing moves. What'up fellow Romans?
    So far there is only one loyal citizen who s interested in such an event.
    Does NR have serious priests and maybe Reenactors who would like to participate.
    PLEASE STEP FORWARD AN LET US BLOW SOME REAL LIFE INTO OUR REPUBLIC...
        HERE IN AMERICA..... OR ARE ONLY EUROPEANS CAPABLE TO DO SO? (YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB OVER THERE)
    Press coverage for NR is organized. Print, Radio, depending on your response TV possible.
    When I receive responses, a comfortable date and time for all, as well reasonable over night stays can be worked out!
    There is currently a huge interest of a REAL TOWN in SC to wellcome
    NR.
    Please pass this request on to others who are not on the mainlist since  I have problems to do so!
    COME ON CITIZENS SHOW THAT YOU ARE REAL !!!
    Valete
    A.R. Magister Artium
     
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63694 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Galerius
    Aureliane Cato sal.

    Please cite the relevant portions of the Constitution and By-laws under which an individual may call for a vote of the membership of Nova Roma to remove our co-presidents and co-moderators from office.

    At present, there has been no edicta issued by any magistrate that would call for the tribuni to issue an intercessio.  Also, you are not authorized to release corporate information to an outside organization until such time as the officers and board of directors of the corporation have had the opportunity to address any irregularities that you may feel have occurred. 

    I am quite willing to receive further information from you or other interested members as long as they are within the Constitution and by-laws of the corportation regardless of my personal feelings on such matters.

    Vale.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...>
    To: nova-roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 9:42 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Message from Gaius Equitius Cato



    C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in foro S.P.D.
     
    Salvete, cives! As C. Equitius Cato is unable to post this here himself at this time, I am doing him the favor of passing on his message to the forum of the main list:
    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ___
     
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    Salvete.
    In accordance with the laws of the res publica and the governing act of the corporation, I am officially calling for a vote of the membership of this corporation for the removal of the consuls and praetors from office.
    If the tribunes refuse to honor such a call, the State of Maine can begin judicial proceedings against the corporation to force the corporation to allow the members to vote.
    I believe an excellent case will be made for removal for cause, but under the governing act of the corporation, officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.
    Valete,
    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63695 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cerealia dies nefastus publicus
    This request is in violation of the Constitution and by-laws of Nova Roma.  As a member of the Collegium Pontificum, I cannot respect this request.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:03 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cerealia dies nefastus publicus



    Mao, thanks for reminding me;

    On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Maior wrote:
    >
    >[excision of nothing worthy]

    As a long time Citizen of Nova Roma, who is not a practitioner of the
    Religio, I call upon the Collegium Pontificum (sic) to expel all those
    who are not fully and SOLELY dedicated to the Palatine Trio and their
    closest, Roman, Holy compatriots from within their ranks.

    I also call upon those who pretend to the ahistorical practices as
    promulgated by the charlatans known as Raven Grimassi and Charles G.
    Leland; tender your resignations, also.

    My personal beliefs are ancient, but the practices are modern
    reconstructions based on reliable scholarship. My faithway revival is
    honestly recent, but based on elder ways as shown by lore, history and
    archaeological evidences.

    Venator, who is now awake and hunting again
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63696 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Pontifex Lentulus broke the law by deleting another person's post. It had
    nothing to do with what he said, it was what he did.

    Please keep your facts straight.

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 3:39 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor

    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato Valerio Poplicolae SPD.
    >
    > Nice. Again another accusation of "breaking the law".
    > When Sulla and Equitius Cato launch threats about starting large and
    > expensive lawsuits, without saying at all what are the presumpt
    > illegalities commited (myself and other citizens asked two weeks ago but
    > we did not got any answer), they are "expressing rightfully".
    >
    > But when Pontifex Lentulus expresses his ideas, he is "braking the law",
    > and when other people speaks, they "don't know what are saying" (in the
    > best case) or are "launching inflamatory attacks".
    >
    > When Sulla expresses his will about "making all who 'illegally' expelled
    > him and another civis pay for it", this is "free speech". When Pontifex
    > Lentulus explains why a citizen resigned from his office and citizenship
    > to avoid rumour and grudge, it's a personal revenge.
    >
    > Those very different ways of measuring "free speech" are curious indeed.
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El lun, 20/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola
    > <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escribió:
    > De: Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...>
    > Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 7:52
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Q. Poplicola Quintiliano omnibusque sal
    >
    >
    >
    > He broke the law. That has no place in Nova Roma. I'm sorry to Lentulus if
    >
    > he truly means good will. But perhaps he is listening to the wrong crowd,
    >
    > the crowd that tells him its ok to break laws as long as who exactly is
    >
    > happy? That does not promote Concordia, but Discord! Perhaps he just had a
    >
    > momentary lapse of devotion to Concordia, we all have ignored her at one
    >
    > time or another. But we shouldn't be shielded from criticism. I hear the
    >
    > criticism, and I take note. Lentulus has yet to admit that he broke the
    > law,
    >
    > when he clearly has.
    >
    >
    >
    > I think a large part of it is in fact what Laenas said: there is no good
    > way
    >
    > of interpreting the law. It's too poorly written by too many people, and
    > not
    >
    > near enough Mores to make anything established. Before the Republic we had
    > a
    >
    > king. That wasn't a bad idea, even according to the ancients. The Kings
    > did
    >
    > many things for us, including great Numa who established many of our
    >
    > priesthoods.
    >
    >
    >
    > But now already a Republic, we cannot revert to kings. I said this early
    >
    > (and Livia out of the spirit of discordia which she has been sowing lately
    >
    > mocked it) said that I would gladly reach out to anyone seeking Concordia.
    > I
    >
    > hear Lentulus, but I don't see anything. Maior emailed me about a
    > scholastic
    >
    > concern, but she has never returned my email.
    >
    >
    >
    > All anyone asks for now is that the law be followed, and that peace and
    >
    > concord reign. But so long as the law is not followed, there cannot be
    >
    > either.
    >
    >
    >
    > Di nos incolumes custodiant!
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------ --
    >
    > Q. Valerius Poplicola
    >
    > Quaestor et Flamen Falacer
    >
    > Scriba of the Aedilis Plebis
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --
    >
    > From: "Christer Edling" <christer.edling@ telia.com>
    >
    > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:42 AM
    >
    > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    >
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    >
    >
    >
    >> Salvete Quirites!
    >
    >>
    >
    >> We shouldn't let anyone treat Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
    >
    >> disrespectfully. He is a man of honor. He has always been looking for
    >
    >> concordia. If he is critizising anyone there may be reason to listen!
    >
    >>
    >
    >> ************ *****
    >
    >> Vale
    >
    >>
    >
    >> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
    >
    >>
    >
    >> Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    >
    >> Civis Romanus sum
    >
    >> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Main_ Page
    >
    >> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
    >
    >> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
    >
    >> "I'll either find a way or make one"
    >
    >> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
    >
    >> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
    >
    >> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
    >
    >> ************ ********* ********* ********* *********
    >
    >> Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
    >
    >> Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
    >
    >>
    >
    >>
    >
    >>
    >
    >>
    >
    >>
    >
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63697 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Call for Papers
    Salvete!

    I'm now officially calling for article submissions for my recon journal project. The working title of the journal is "Journal of Ancient Mediterranean Reconstructionism". Topics can be on any aspect of ancient life that does or may impact reconstructionist efforts. The scope involves the entire ancient Mediterranean and lands that have fallen under the influence of cultures therefrom. This offers a fair amount of flexibility given the extent of the Hellenistic kingdoms and Roman Empire.

    Types of submissions:

    Regular article: 10+ pages (although, something around 20 pages or more is encouraged).

    Short article/note: 1-9 pages. Tackles some narrow issue and probably easier to write for those who aren't familiar with a sufficient amount of secondary literature for writing a regular article.

    review article: a well informed review of a book or long article.

    The topics can be historical, philological, anthropological or practical in orientation. Examples: A study of how Roman law developed into Ius Commune and what this might say about modern adaptations of Roman law (historical); a fresh translation and edition of a Latin, Greek, etc prayer accompanied by linguistic and historical commentary (philological); the psychology of religious reconstructionism, comparing and contrasting it with more eclectic efforts (anthropological); a new take on substitutions for ingredients in neo-Roman cuisine (practical).

    All articles must be scholarly in nature, taking into account the relevant primary and secondary literature on the subject. All sources must be properly cited. The style to be used is the Chicago Manual of Style (http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html).

    I'm also still looking to expand the group of referees. If you have a master's (MA/MPhil/qualifying Licentiate--if the L. was 5-6 years with a thesis, it counts) or PhD in Classics or a related field and would be willing to referee blinded copies of articles, please let me know!

    Any suggestions/comments on any of the above are welcome!

    Valete,

    M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63698 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: CHRISTOS ANESTI
    Aurelianus Cato sal.

    Thank you for your good wishes on this holy day observed by the Orthodox Christian Churches of the World.  It always good to receive such a missive, as many of the members of Nova Roma follow the sacra of cults that venerate the resurrection of one of the sons of the Gods.  May the Peace of your God be with you.

    Vale.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 3:02 am
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] CHRISTOS ANESTI



    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    To all of our citizens who celebrate this day as the Feast of The Resurrection of Christ, I wish you all the joy of this most holy day.

    Valete,

    Cato

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63699 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Dictator
    Ten Good Men to reconstruct the structure of Nova Roma.  I could agree to that.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 1:47 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Dictator



    Decemvirate?
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63700 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    P. Corva Gaudialis A. Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.

    Scholastica posted:
    Today is International Disturbed People's Day.

    Gaudialis responds:
    *giggles!* Tullia Scholastica, you are _brilliant!_ :D Heehee!

    Many thanks for the laugh! :)
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63701 From: Kristoffer From Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Salve, Marce Octavi Gracche.

    Matt Hucke wrote:
    > That's like saying the CEO of Enron was legally hired for his
    > position, therefore his decisions must be correct, and "blowing the
    > whistle" on him was treason.
    >
    > I do not, and never will, accept that line of thinking. Those who
    > exposed corporate wrongdoing at Enron, MCI, and Arthur Andersen are
    > heroes, not traitors.

    I'm sorry, I don't have the cultural background to know what Enron, MCI
    or Arthur Andersen are. I'll just assume they are big corporations that
    didn't obey legislation.

    Without knowing, I'll further speculate that they were profit-seeking
    enterprises out to make money for their investors/owners.

    > The laws of the United States, and individual states within, overrule
    > the internal rules of any corporation, club, organization, or
    > what-have-you incorporated therein. If you want to disregard these
    > rules you'll need plenty of barbed wire and guns to fortify your
    > compound.

    I'm guessing the last sentence refers to the paranoid isolationists I
    hear the occasional tall tale about.

    Yes - the laws of the macronation where we are incorporated DO overrule
    the internal rules of the corporation. I have never questioned that. I
    do question why a novaroman should ever desire to overturn our internal
    system, based on that of Rome and voted on by our citizens, using those
    external laws. Especially as it couldn't but place Nova Roma in a
    precarious position, one way or another, to have that kind of outside
    attention directed our way.

    > Those laws state that directors may be removed by vote of the
    > members. Cato is within his rights to demand such a vote.

    External laws MAY give him the right to demand such a vote. I'd doubt
    it, though. Most such laws require a certain percentage of
    members/shareholders backing such a proposal for it to legally require
    such a vote to take place. A single person rarely holds that right by
    himself.

    Our internal laws, however, does NOT give him any such right. A comitia
    may, indeed, vote to remove a magistrate it elected from office - if
    assembled for such a vote. Cato does not have the power to assemble a
    comitia, and no citizen can compel the magistrates that have that power
    to use it. Except inasmuch a legal intercessio would force a magistrate
    to reverse an action.

    > As for "treason", that's a word that's been abused much in recent
    > years. After years of hearing it bloviated by Fox-News blowhards
    > about any dissent, I find it hard to take seriously any person who
    > accuses anyone of "treason". Recall the story of the Boy Who Cried
    > Wolf.

    The crime both Cato and Sulla is threatening us with is defined in our
    own laws as "Laesa Patriae", or treason against the republic. The
    definition states:

    "The definition of laesa patriae includes, but is not limited to, any
    overt act by a citizen which a reasonable person would conclude to be
    damaging or defamatory to the republic, its religio, or its
    institutions, including *acts which may expose the republic, its
    religio, or its institutions to macronational legal action*, if such act
    is not legally authorised by the republic or its agents, and/or acts
    which endanger the ability of the republic, its religion, or its
    institutions to perform its legal functions"

    I did not write the law, the people did approve it and it states
    explicitly what treason to the republic is. My use of the term "treason"
    is neither inflammatory, rhetorics, subjective nor me crying wolf. It is
    a statement of fact.

    Vale, Pius.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63702 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: The Moderation of Senator Sulla & a personal opinion by Tribunus Fl.
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus s.p.d.

    I have contacted the Praetores and was informed about the moderation of Senator Sulla as well as the concerns to the Tribuni.  The moderation of Senator Sulla will end on April 27.  The Tribuni have been informed of this as well as the Senator.

    The majority of the Tribuni have agreed that the Praetores have the right to moderate the membership of the official fora (websites) of Nova Roma for the purposes of maintaining civility and order.  However, the three Tribuni who have commented on this are of the opinionl that there should be definite time limits involved and that the individual being moderated has the right to ask for an explaination of the moderation.  The time limits being limited to 60-90 days.

    In the eight years of my membership in Nova Roma, I have seen the lists placed under a general moderation due to the praetores being off line.  I have also seen certain individuals moderated because of incivility and/or other reasons which were explained by the praetores.  I believe that it is in the best interests of Nova Roma that any individual who finds themselves on moderated status give the praetores at least 24 hours to answer their inquries before turning the matter over to the tribuni for intercession.  Communication between members and officers being of the utmost importance to maintain civility and good order in our organization.

    The definition of the "dies" of Nova Roma may be found in a decreta issued by the Collegium Pontificum.  Nefasti Publica are much like Netasti-normal working days but no comitia metings, judicial sentences, and no feriae publicae.  In my personal opinion, this doesn't mean that the praetores may shut down their office.  As such, unless my colleagues disagree with my opinion, I do not believe that the use of NP can be used by the praetores to shut down their office.

    I do believe that if a praetor is going to be away from the lists for a certain period of time, that person should insure that their colleague should be available to cover their duties.  It would be a rare occurrence for both praetores to be off line during the same period of time.

    Valete.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Kristoffer From <from@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 3:22 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Salve3, Gai Vipsani.

    Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
    > I have receive a request for and hearby grant intercessio against the moderation of Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

    Not issued within the proper timeframe, so invaild, sorry.

    > [...] Cornelius Sulla Felix is no threat to Nova Roma.
    That is an outright lie. He has threatened and continue to threaten the
    res publica and her inner workings time and time again. Whether he
    claims it to be "for her own good" is irrelevant.

    Vale, Pius.

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63703 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Aurelianus Cato sal.

    Please contact me off the ML at brotherpaganus@...

    Vale.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 4:39 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again



    Cato consules omnibusque in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    Earlier I called for the tribunes to gather the People to vote on the removal of magistrates from office. I realized that under the law, both Nova Roman and US law, the comitia which elected them must vote to remove them.

    So consuls I charge you, in accordance with the governing act of the corporation, with including in the upcoming elections the provisions to allow the People to vote in the comitia centuriata on your removal from office, as well as the removal of the praetors.

    If you refuse, I will contact the Secretary of State of the State of Maine to begin the judicial process by which you will be *forced* to call a vote. This is not a choice, consuls. You can do this the easy way - which should cause you no concern if you are convinced you are performing your duties faithfully under the law - or you can do this the hard way, with the US looking over your shoulder.

    Again please remember that under US law officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.

    I give you until 1700h (Rome time) on Wednesday, 22 April, to reply.

    If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote.

    Valete,

    Cato

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63704 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.  For those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380C_nVJotY

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:


    Pontifex Lentulus broke the law by deleting another person's post. It had
    nothing to do with what he said, it was what he did.

    Please keep your facts straight.




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63705 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    On 4/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


    Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.  For those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380C_nVJotY

    Now I prefer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4 "I fought the Law and the Law Won" - the Clash

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63706 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Poplicola civis to Kristoffer From the non-citizen:

    Actually, you're using Laesa Patriae incorrectly. The word *expose* is the
    key word, and neither Sulla nor Cato has done any actions which wold
    *expose* us to the macronational authorities. Resorting to the macronational
    authorities is a *response* from actions that have *exposed* us to the
    macronational authorities. The unilateral removal of Sulla by Censorial
    Modianus from the Senate. That *action* exposed us to the possibility of
    lawsuits, since what he did was illegal, both against our constitution and
    macronational laws. Since the current censor (and Laenas) resolved the
    issue, I doubt anything will come about it. Likewise, any actions that would
    force someone to resort to the authorities because they are violating laws
    is Laesa Patriae. It's the actions which are treasonous, not the resorting.

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Kristoffer From" <from@...>
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:57 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    > Salve, Marce Octavi Gracche.
    >
    > Matt Hucke wrote:
    >> That's like saying the CEO of Enron was legally hired for his
    >> position, therefore his decisions must be correct, and "blowing the
    >> whistle" on him was treason.
    >>
    >> I do not, and never will, accept that line of thinking. Those who
    >> exposed corporate wrongdoing at Enron, MCI, and Arthur Andersen are
    >> heroes, not traitors.
    >
    > I'm sorry, I don't have the cultural background to know what Enron, MCI
    > or Arthur Andersen are. I'll just assume they are big corporations that
    > didn't obey legislation.
    >
    > Without knowing, I'll further speculate that they were profit-seeking
    > enterprises out to make money for their investors/owners.
    >
    >> The laws of the United States, and individual states within, overrule
    >> the internal rules of any corporation, club, organization, or
    >> what-have-you incorporated therein. If you want to disregard these
    >> rules you'll need plenty of barbed wire and guns to fortify your
    >> compound.
    >
    > I'm guessing the last sentence refers to the paranoid isolationists I
    > hear the occasional tall tale about.
    >
    > Yes - the laws of the macronation where we are incorporated DO overrule
    > the internal rules of the corporation. I have never questioned that. I
    > do question why a novaroman should ever desire to overturn our internal
    > system, based on that of Rome and voted on by our citizens, using those
    > external laws. Especially as it couldn't but place Nova Roma in a
    > precarious position, one way or another, to have that kind of outside
    > attention directed our way.
    >
    >> Those laws state that directors may be removed by vote of the
    >> members. Cato is within his rights to demand such a vote.
    >
    > External laws MAY give him the right to demand such a vote. I'd doubt
    > it, though. Most such laws require a certain percentage of
    > members/shareholders backing such a proposal for it to legally require
    > such a vote to take place. A single person rarely holds that right by
    > himself.
    >
    > Our internal laws, however, does NOT give him any such right. A comitia
    > may, indeed, vote to remove a magistrate it elected from office - if
    > assembled for such a vote. Cato does not have the power to assemble a
    > comitia, and no citizen can compel the magistrates that have that power
    > to use it. Except inasmuch a legal intercessio would force a magistrate
    > to reverse an action.
    >
    >> As for "treason", that's a word that's been abused much in recent
    >> years. After years of hearing it bloviated by Fox-News blowhards
    >> about any dissent, I find it hard to take seriously any person who
    >> accuses anyone of "treason". Recall the story of the Boy Who Cried
    >> Wolf.
    >
    > The crime both Cato and Sulla is threatening us with is defined in our
    > own laws as "Laesa Patriae", or treason against the republic. The
    > definition states:
    >
    > "The definition of laesa patriae includes, but is not limited to, any
    > overt act by a citizen which a reasonable person would conclude to be
    > damaging or defamatory to the republic, its religio, or its
    > institutions, including *acts which may expose the republic, its
    > religio, or its institutions to macronational legal action*, if such act
    > is not legally authorised by the republic or its agents, and/or acts
    > which endanger the ability of the republic, its religion, or its
    > institutions to perform its legal functions"
    >
    > I did not write the law, the people did approve it and it states
    > explicitly what treason to the republic is. My use of the term "treason"
    > is neither inflammatory, rhetorics, subjective nor me crying wolf. It is
    > a statement of fact.
    >
    > Vale, Pius.
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63707 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Both are great! No need to fight here. :-)

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Kirsteen Wright" <kirsteen.falconsfan@...>
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:14 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor

    > On 4/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.
    >> For
    >> those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go:
    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380C_nVJotY
    >>
    >
    > Now I prefer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4 "I fought the Law
    > and the Law Won" - the Clash
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63708 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Salve,

    > The crime both Cato and Sulla is threatening us with is defined in our
    > own laws as "Laesa Patriae", or treason against the republic. The
    > definition states:

    I think the situation can also be seen from a different direction. If Cato and Sulla are correct that certain illegalities have been committed by magistrates, then their appeal to macro law is not a cause but an instrument of macro-national legal action. In other words, those magistrates become guilty of "acts which may expose the republic, its religio, or its institutions to macronational legal action" and Cato and Sulla merely become the facilitators of that exposure.

    Because Nova Roma chose to weave itself within the fabric of macro-law, strict distinctions between internal and external legality are difficult, if not impossible, to make. The "internal" laws have become an extension of the macro legal framework. We are, as it were, an appendage of the Maine Nonprofit Corporation Act.

    Therefore, by choosing to incorporate ourselves, we have implicitly chosen to operate with a "loose constructionist" interpretation of our Constitution and Bylaws. That is to say, we have implicitly agreed that unless the Constitution and Bylaws explicitly forbid a particular action, it can still be done insofar as macro law extends that power. In cases where there is explicit conflict between the two, we bow to the macro law.

    The discussion, I think, should be how we can encourage people to first exhaust "internal" legal channels before going to macro courts, and if those channels are exhausted and people still think there is illegality, what sort of Mos we should cultivate that allows people to make that jump into the macro legal world without it appearing like some betrayal.

    Vale,

    Gualterus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63709 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Dictator
    If we had a dictator it would have to be a "dictator legibus faciendis et rei publicae constituendae causa"

    On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:43 AM, <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...> wrote:


    Ten Good Men to reconstruct the structure of Nova Roma.  I could agree to that.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus




    -----Original Message-----
    From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 1:47 pm
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Dictator



    Decemvirate?


    The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63710 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis s.p.d.

    As Nova Roma has fallen away from our original ideals and goals finding itself being held hostage by our various laws that hurt us more than help us, I call the Plebs to come to the CPT list and consider a plebiscite to repeal certain leges.

    By repealing certain leges, the Plebs may begin the process of eliminating many of the "role-playing" leges of Nova Roma and return to the original goals of our organization as stated in our Constitution and the Declaration of the Religio Romana. It is my hope that by dismantling much of our on-line activities, we may be better enabled to participate in more real world activities for the advancement of Nova Roma and the restoration of the Religio Romana and the Virtues.

    Please encourage all the Plebs that you know to join the CPT list so we can kick start the reorganization of Nova Roma.

    Valete.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63711 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    The Clash is great.  When I was in the Ike (USS Dwight D. Eisenhower) during the Persian Gulf War the song we played a lot was their song "Rock the Casbah."  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY  Looking back that didn't seem very politically correct -- but back then we weren't very concerned with such things.

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:




    On 4/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


    Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.  For those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380C_nVJotY

    Now I prefer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4 "I fought the Law and the Law Won" - the Clash

    Flavia Lucilla Merula 



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63712 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Woo Hoo.  I get another honorable mention in an e-mail dispute.

    Modianus

    On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:


    Poplicola civis to Kristoffer From the non-citizen:

    Actually, you're using Laesa Patriae incorrectly. The word *expose* is the
    key word, and neither Sulla nor Cato has done any actions which wold
    *expose* us to the macronational authorities. Resorting to the macronational
    authorities is a *response* from actions that have *exposed* us to the
    macronational authorities. The unilateral removal of Sulla by Censorial
    Modianus from the Senate. That *action* exposed us to the possibility of
    lawsuits, since what he did was illegal, both against our constitution and
    macronational laws. Since the current censor (and Laenas) resolved the
    issue, I doubt anything will come about it. Likewise, any actions that would
    force someone to resort to the authorities because they are violating laws
    is Laesa Patriae. It's the actions which are treasonous, not the resorting.




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63713 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Salve Tite Octavi,

    > Yes - the laws of the macronation where we are incorporated DO overrule
    > the internal rules of the corporation. I have never questioned that. I
    > do question why a novaroman should ever desire to overturn our internal
    > system, based on that of Rome and voted on by our citizens, using those
    > external laws.

    If the internal system seemed to be working, if the officers of the
    corporation were willing to communicate rather than just issuing edicts
    and deleting messages, there'd be no need to go elsewhere. But the concerns
    that Cato and Sulla have raised have been ignored for months.

    We're now seeing people secretly placed on moderation, their messages
    delayed for up to twelve hours (which makes it impossible to effectively
    take part in a spirited debate). Yesterday, a scribe took it upon
    himself to delete someone's message merely because he disagreed with it.

    In such an environment, how can anyone have any faith in internal
    procedure?

    >> Those laws state that directors may be removed by vote of the
    >> members. Cato is within his rights to demand such a vote.
    >
    > External laws MAY give him the right to demand such a vote. I'd doubt
    > it, though. Most such laws require a certain percentage of
    > members/shareholders backing such a proposal for it to legally require
    > such a vote to take place. A single person rarely holds that right by
    > himself.

    So, you're suggesting a petition drive, then? He'll have dozens of
    signatures the first day, I'll warrant.

    > The crime both Cato and Sulla is threatening us with is defined in our
    > own laws as "Laesa Patriae", or treason against the republic. The
    > definition states:

    After "Laesa Patriae" was used against someone for refusing to surrender
    a mailing list with a few dozen messages, I can't really take that concept
    seriously anymore. Sorry. You can call it "arson" or "multiple murder" if
    you wish, but that doesn't make it so.

    Treason is a grievous crime against one's own people, as horrible as murder
    or rape. To use the term against one who is trying nothing more wicked
    than trying to oust directors of a corporation is nothing more than
    hyperbole - like the animal rights activists who compare meat-eating
    to the Nazi holocaust.

    Please do not accuse people of capital crimes. Cato is no more a
    traitor than he is a murderer or arsonist.

    Nor were the Enron whistleblowers traitors - they were heroes, and the
    executives of that company were criminals.

    > "The definition of laesa patriae includes, but is not limited to, any
    > overt act by a citizen which a reasonable person would conclude to be
    > damaging or defamatory to the republic, its religio, or its
    > institutions, including *acts which may expose the republic, its
    > religio, or its institutions to macronational legal action*,

    FACT: I, a reasonable person, conclude that the Praetores' and their scribes'
    excessive use of censorship to be damaging to the republic and its institutions.

    FACT: I, a reasonable person, consider the Magna Mater scheme to have brought
    disgrace and defamation to the republic, and to have exposed it to macronational
    legal action.

    So, now that I have published these "facts", do you consider the consuls
    and preatores to be traitors? Or is it only your perception of "facts"
    that merits labeling someone with a perjorative term that carries connotations
    as grave as those of "murderer"?

    > I did not write the law, the people did approve it and it states
    > explicitly what treason to the republic is. My use of the term "treason"
    > is neither inflammatory, rhetorics, subjective nor me crying wolf. It is
    > a statement of fact.

    I do not consider the laws of Nova Roma to define what "fact" is, any more than
    the writings of creationists define what "science" is, or the propaganda of
    PETA defines what a "holocaust" is. You can call a molehill a mountain, but that
    doesn't make it so. Call someone a "traitor" in front of a real judge,
    and you'll quickly find yourself brought up on charges of contempt.

    Vale, Octavius.
    12.03 CDT.

    --
    Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
    author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
    CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63714 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Gale
    Cato Aureliano sal.

    Salve Aurelianus.

    "Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him...The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

    2. Consul. Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:...To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the comitia populi tributa to order;"

    "3. Praetor. Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:...To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the comitia populi tributa to order when the Consuls are unavailable;" - Constitution of Nov Roma IV.A, IV.A.2., IV.A.2.c, IV.A.3, IV.A.3.c

    So the Constitution clearly states that the consuls and praetors may be removed by a vote in the comitia centuriata. The Constitution clearly delineates who may call the comitia centuriata to order. The consuls have heard the request of a citizen that action be taken, and they have the authority and the obligation to address it. The law of the State of Maine provides for a judicial proceeding overseen by the State of Maine to allow the members to vote *specifically* if the officers refuse to allow it.

    Release of information to a branch of the United States Federal government or any State agency for purposes of compliance with the law is not subject to any restrictions whatsoever. As a member of the Board of Directors, and a citizen, I am completely free - even obligated - to see that the law is obeyed by any legal means necessary.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
    >
    > Aureliane Cato sal.
    >
    > Please cite the relevant portions of the Constitution and By-laws under which an individual may call for a vote of the membership of Nova Roma to remove our co-presidents and co-moderators from office.
    >
    > At present, there has been no edicta issued by any magistrate that would call for the tribuni to issue an intercessio.? Also, you are not authorized to release corporate information to an outside organization until such time as the officers and board of directors of the corporation have had the opportunity to address any irregularities that you may feel have occurred.?
    >
    > I am quite willing to receive further information from you or other interested members as long as they are within the Constitution and by-laws of the corportation regardless of my personal feelings on such matters.
    >
    > Vale.
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...>
    > To: nova-roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 9:42 pm
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Message from Gaius Equitius Cato
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in foro S.P.D.
    >
    > ?
    >
    > Salvete, cives! As C. Equitius Cato is unable to post this here himself at this time, I am doing him the favor of passing on his message to the forum of the main list:
    >
    > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > ?
    >
    > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete.
    >
    > In accordance with the laws of the res publica and the governing act of the corporation, I am officially calling for a vote of the membership of this corporation for the removal of the consuls and praetors from office.
    >
    > If the tribunes refuse to honor such a call, the State of Maine can begin judicial proceedings against the corporation to force the corporation to allow the members to vote.
    >
    > I believe an excellent case will be made for removal for cause, but under the governing act of the corporation, officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63715 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
    Cato Galerio Aureliano sal.

    Salve!

    I have called repeatedly for the repeal of the leges Saliciae, and I have even been working on something to replace them to serve if absolutely necessary.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
    >
    > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis s.p.d.
    >
    > As Nova Roma has fallen away from our original ideals and goals finding itself being held hostage by our various laws that hurt us more than help us, I call the Plebs to come to the CPT list and consider a plebiscite to repeal certain leges.
    >
    > By repealing certain leges, the Plebs may begin the process of eliminating many of the "role-playing" leges of Nova Roma and return to the original goals of our organization as stated in our Constitution and the Declaration of the Religio Romana. It is my hope that by dismantling much of our on-line activities, we may be better enabled to participate in more real world activities for the advancement of Nova Roma and the restoration of the Religio Romana and the Virtues.
    >
    > Please encourage all the Plebs that you know to join the CPT list so we can kick start the reorganization of Nova Roma.
    >
    > Valete.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63716 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Calling the Plebs to the CPT List to discuss a new plebiscite
    Cato Aureliano sal.

    Salve!

    I have called repeatedly for the repeal of the leges Saliciae, and I have even been working on something to replace them to serve if absolutely necessary.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@...> wrote:
    >
    > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis s.p.d.
    >
    > As Nova Roma has fallen away from our original ideals and goals finding itself being held hostage by our various laws that hurt us more than help us, I call the Plebs to come to the CPT list and consider a plebiscite to repeal certain leges.
    >
    > By repealing certain leges, the Plebs may begin the process of eliminating many of the "role-playing" leges of Nova Roma and return to the original goals of our organization as stated in our Constitution and the Declaration of the Religio Romana. It is my hope that by dismantling much of our on-line activities, we may be better enabled to participate in more real world activities for the advancement of Nova Roma and the restoration of the Religio Romana and the Virtues.
    >
    > Please encourage all the Plebs that you know to join the CPT list so we can kick start the reorganization of Nova Roma.
    >
    > Valete.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63717 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Concord - Parilia Tomorrow
    Cn. Lentulus omnibus sal.


    I thank to M. Lucretius Agricola and P. Ullerius Venator for their calm, peaceful and wise suggestions they gave me both in private and in this list, and I revoke my comment about L. Sulla Felix as being evil. It is not right to speak so about anybody.

    In the same time, I offer my hand to L. Sulla Felix for a more peaceful and respectful tone: without respect there is no communication at all.

    I suggest now we concentrate on tomorrow's Parilia, 2762nd Birthday of Rome.

    Tomorrow I will do the official sacrifice for the Nova Romans, both for Concordia and Capitoline Triad.

    I ask my fellow citizens to join in my prayers!


    Curate, ut valeatis!

    Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
    Pontifex et Sacerdos Concordiae




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63718 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato-Response from Tribunus Fl. Gale
    Aurelianus Cato sal.

    So far no macronational laws have been proven to be broken and the BoD has not yet begun a meeting to discuss the issues that have been brought up here. I am not convinced that we should trust the "gut feeling" of Gn. Iulio regardless of his years of experience in his current job. He is not experienced in matter dealing with archaeological terminology nor has he acted in good faith according to the specific rights and prerogatives of his office as defined by the Constitution and by-laws of Nova Roma.

    Let the BoD meet to determine how we should proceed with this matter and come to a concensus that will resolve the issue. If you have the best interests of Nova Roma at heart, you will endeavor to resolve this matter internally.

    Vale.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cato Aureliano sal.
    >
    > Salve Aurelianus.
    >
    > "Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him...The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:
    >
    > 2. Consul. Two consuls shall be elected annually by the comitia centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:...To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the comitia populi tributa to order;"
    >
    > "3. Praetor. Two praetors shall be elected by the Comitia Centuriata to serve a term lasting one year. They shall have the following honors, powers, and obligations:...To call the Senate, the comitia centuriata, and the comitia populi tributa to order when the Consuls are unavailable;" - Constitution of Nov Roma IV.A, IV.A.2., IV.A.2.c, IV.A.3, IV.A.3.c
    >
    > So the Constitution clearly states that the consuls and praetors may be removed by a vote in the comitia centuriata. The Constitution clearly delineates who may call the comitia centuriata to order. The consuls have heard the request of a citizen that action be taken, and they have the authority and the obligation to address it. The law of the State of Maine provides for a judicial proceeding overseen by the State of Maine to allow the members to vote *specifically* if the officers refuse to allow it.
    >
    > Release of information to a branch of the United States Federal government or any State agency for purposes of compliance with the law is not subject to any restrictions whatsoever. As a member of the Board of Directors, and a citizen, I am completely free - even obligated - to see that the law is obeyed by any legal means necessary.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@ wrote:
    > >
    > > Aureliane Cato sal.
    > >
    > > Please cite the relevant portions of the Constitution and By-laws under which an individual may call for a vote of the membership of Nova Roma to remove our co-presidents and co-moderators from office.
    > >
    > > At present, there has been no edicta issued by any magistrate that would call for the tribuni to issue an intercessio.? Also, you are not authorized to release corporate information to an outside organization until such time as the officers and board of directors of the corporation have had the opportunity to address any irregularities that you may feel have occurred.?
    > >
    > > I am quite willing to receive further information from you or other interested members as long as they are within the Constitution and by-laws of the corportation regardless of my personal feelings on such matters.
    > >
    > > Vale.
    > >
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@>
    > > To: nova-roma <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 9:42 pm
    > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Message from Gaius Equitius Cato
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in foro S.P.D.
    > >
    > > ?
    > >
    > > Salvete, cives! As C. Equitius Cato is unable to post this here himself at this time, I am doing him the favor of passing on his message to the forum of the main list:
    > >
    > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    > >
    > > ?
    > >
    > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    > >
    > > Salvete.
    > >
    > > In accordance with the laws of the res publica and the governing act of the corporation, I am officially calling for a vote of the membership of this corporation for the removal of the consuls and praetors from office.
    > >
    > > If the tribunes refuse to honor such a call, the State of Maine can begin judicial proceedings against the corporation to force the corporation to allow the members to vote.
    > >
    > > I believe an excellent case will be made for removal for cause, but under the governing act of the corporation, officers may be removed with or withOUT cause.
    > >
    > > Valete,
    > >
    > > Cato
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63720 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Message from Gaius Equitius Cato CORRECTED
    Cato Aureliano sal.

    Salve!

    Unfortunately, Aureliane, my call for the removal of these officers is only in small part prompted by the Magna Mater Project issue. Our Constitution does not make any restriction (i.e., macronational law being broken) on when officers may be brought up for a vote of removal; all that is required is a case being successfully made that they have been "derelict in their duties", a case that will unfold over the course of debate regarding the vote itself; in fact -
    and I repeat - US law specifically states that officers may be remove with or WITHOUT cause, so it might behoove our magistrates to keep this internal.

    How the Magna Mater Project mess is dealt with is on a whole different playing field now, as US authorities from the Department of Justice have already received complaints.

    Vale,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63721 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Concord - Parilia Tomorrow
    Ave!

    I accept and also offer my hand to Cn. Cornelius.

    Respectfully,

    Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus omnibus sal.
    >
    >
    > I thank to M. Lucretius Agricola and P. Ullerius Venator for their calm, peaceful and wise suggestions they gave me both in private and in this list, and I revoke my comment about L. Sulla Felix as being evil. It is not right to speak so about anybody.
    >
    > In the same time, I offer my hand to L. Sulla Felix for a more peaceful and respectful tone: without respect there is no communication at all.
    >
    > I suggest now we concentrate on tomorrow's Parilia, 2762nd Birthday of Rome.
    >
    > Tomorrow I will do the official sacrifice for the Nova Romans, both for Concordia and Capitoline Triad.
    >
    > I ask my fellow citizens to join in my prayers!
    >
    >
    > Curate, ut valeatis!
    >
    > Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
    > Pontifex et Sacerdos Concordiae
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63722 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
    Salve,

    this helped so much. Thank you for your answer.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
    Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:36

    Salve
     
    The can say anything they like, as can any citizens as long as it does not
    rise to being "a clear and imminent treat to the republic".
     
    If some one is placed or going to be placed on moderation they have to be told.
    If the moderation is made it must be done by edict so it is public. The act of moderation
    has to be known in order for it to be appealed by the citizen to the Tribunes.
     
    Does this help?
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus

     


    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:26:19 +0000
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

    It's as easy as saying "yes" or "no". I am not asking about how people could express their ideas. I'am asking, for the fourth time (and I'm getting tired of circumventions) if senators would have total immunity to say anything in other lists without any limit, without being subject to any edictum de sermone or simmilar.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:43

    Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
     
    Asked and answered twice.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     


    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:55:58 +0000
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Galerio Paulino SPD.

    I am glad to know about that, but for the third time: do you suggest or support total immunity for senators?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Free expression of ideas
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:41


    Salve Lucius Coruncanius Cato 
    To answer your question I support the free expression of ideas by any person approved to post to the main list. Once a  member of the list their post should go through.
     
    Please remember the main list was without moderation for the entire term of Cato's Praetorship. He even refused to allow ML guidelines to be adopted.
     
    The last time I checked the Republic did not fall because of it.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     



    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:06:59 +0000
    Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    The Senate is the Senate. I do not have acces to it, so I do not know how or what are the discussions there. The ML is the ML. Can you please answer my question?
    Are you suggesting total immunity for senators in any list?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:50

    Salve Lucius Corncanius Cato
     
    As Censor I am the temporary owner of the Senate list. Except when intercepted by the spam
    filter there is currently no moderation on the Senate list.
     
    All Senators are free to post on any subject and any time unless we are in a formal session. If no moderation works for the Senate list, which is also the BOD list for Nova Roma, Inc. then
    I can't see how the main list can't do the same. I recently asked that the Praetors let moderation lapse for the whole month of May as an experiment in letting adults behave as adults.
     
    Vale
     
    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
     



    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    From: l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com
    Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:03 +0000
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    Are you suggesting total immunity for senators?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com> escribió:
    De: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus <spqr753@msn. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

    Salvete

    The constitution also says that in order to be moderated the person must be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

    In order to be moderated the person has to be informed on why and it has to be done in public so the Tribunes can decide if it a legal act or the whim of the moderator. Last time I checked a magistrate must issue an edict in order to exercise their power. Where are all the edicts placing anybody on moderation?

    The Tribune, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa is to be commended for upholding the rights of the citizens of Nova Roma.

    Not one member of the Nova Roman Senate can be classified to be a clear and imminent treat to the republic.

    Valete

    Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
    Censor

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kristoffer From <from@...> wrote:
    >
    > Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
    > > The moderation of citzens beyond a reasonable time frame for new citizens violates the Constitution, specifically Section II B 4
    > >
    > > "[...] *Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility*"
    > >
    >
    > Salve, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
    >
    > Your idiotic intercessio doesn't hold water. The paragraph of the
    > constitution you quoted mandates moderation - and you cannot pronounce
    > intercessio against the constitution.
    >
    > Your intercessio is illegal and hence invalid. Please refrain from
    > further embarrassing yourself and the office of tribune.
    >
    > Vale, Pius.
    >








    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63723 From: flaviascholastica Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
    >
    A. Tullia Scholastica P. Corvae Gaudiali quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    > P. Corva Gaudialis A. Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.
    >
    > Scholastica posted:
    > Today is International Disturbed People's Day.
    >
    > Gaudialis responds:
    > *giggles!* Tullia Scholastica, you are _brilliant!_ :D

    ATS: Thank you!


    Heehee!
    >
    > Many thanks for the laugh! :)

    ATS: You are quite welcome! I thought a little levity was in order. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming from the World Wrestling Foundation, followed by the daily boxing matches and the late, late alligator wrestling championships.

    Vale, et valete.


    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63724 From: enodia2002 Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    As I recall that was the first song they played when they set up the radio system during the first Gulf War :)

    V Rutilia


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
    >
    > The Clash is great. When I was in the Ike (USS Dwight D. Eisenhower) during
    > the Persian Gulf War the song we played a lot was their song "Rock the
    > Casbah." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAkfHShATKY Looking back that
    > didn't seem very politically correct -- but back then we weren't very
    > concerned with such things.
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
    >
    > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Kirsteen Wright <
    > kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On 4/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.
    > >> For those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go:
    > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380C_nVJotY
    > >>
    > >
    > > Now I prefer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4 "I fought the Law
    > > and the Law Won" - the Clash
    > >
    > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63725 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Intercessio
    Salve Aventina,

    I am still waiting for an answer...

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> escribió:
    De: Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:07

    Salve,

    Was not suposed the people have the right to freely express their ideas (even if they are binding or not)? What changed from yesterday?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@yahoo. com> escribió:
    De: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@yahoo. com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 10:59

    Dear Kristoffer,
     
     I also thought that you resigned. Aren't you the former praetor Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus?
    Vale,
    Diana

     

    From: Kristoffer From <from@darkeye. net>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 1:05:10
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio

    Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
    > The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any measure
    >

    Here is what you wrote:

    "I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
    the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."

    Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
    moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
    constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.

    /Pius



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63726 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Free expression of ideas
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Cornelio Sullae SPD.

    Ok, then let's make it this way:

    Good for you! Are you a corporate officer now? No. So... if you want to change thinks, try to run again for an office in the corporation when the time comes. Meanwhile, accept the rules and let the people do their work. This used to be called "democracy".

    Internal democracy goes along within corporations. Am I wrong?

    PS: as you see, I can circumvent a lot too, so let's get to the point, should we?
    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> escribió:
    De: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Free expression of ideas
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:43

    NR is a corporation.

    Can we please have some reality. Is that too much to ask?

    NR is not a nation. It might aspire to be more than it is. But at its current existence it is a corporation and functions ALONG those lines.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato Equito Catoni SPD.
    >
    > Good for you! Are you in the Praetorship now? No. So... if you want to change thinks, try to run again for Praetor when the time comes. Meanwhile, accept the rules and let the people do their work. This used to be called "democracy".
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .> escribió:
    > De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@.. .>
    > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Free expression of ideas
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 2:46
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato Coruncanio sal.
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    >
    >
    > Yep, he's right. A whole *year* without an edict telling people what they could or could not - or even should or should not - say.
    >
    >
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63727 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Equitio Catoni SPD.

    "The list of illegalities committed by the current magistrates has been cited over and over and over again; the list simply gets bigger almost daily as they blunder into some new error."

    I have not seen any list anywhere. What I've seen is some people talking about alleged illegalities, as for example the elections. We are going to have elections in some days, so that "illegallity" is fixed.
    So please, would you explain the people, to whom you had requested to raise for their rights, what exactly are these alleged illegalities? The people, or the members of a corporation, have the right to know. So, please, as a member of this corporation I demand again to know for what reasons exactly it should be a (by the way, inconstitutional) vote to remove our magistrates/officers.

    I am not at all afraid of letting the people speak, but I demand the people speak sense, clear and truthful. What I am afraid of is about the instrumental use of invisible threats. This is called the fear therapy.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
    De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:54

    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    You are incorrect both in general and particular, Coruncanius. You wrote:

    "When Sulla and Equitius Cato launch threats about starting large and expensive lawsuits, without saying at all what are the presumpt illegalities commited (myself and other citizens asked two weeks ago but we did not got any answer), they are 'expressing rightfully'. "

    I, for one, am not threatening a lawsuit.

    The list of illegalities committed by the current magistrates has been cited over and over and over again; the list simply gets bigger almost daily as they blunder into some new error.

    Talk about not getting an answer! After you copy the edictum de sermone twice to this List with all kinds of big letters, I asked you to explain how the post of mine was deleted violated the edictum. Your answer was basically "if the praetor did it it must be OK". You think that's a good foundation for government? "If he was arrested he must be guilty." Maybe that makes sense where you live, but not in the United States, and not under Nova Roman law.

    I have called on the consuls to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the law of Nova Roma.

    If they refuse, I will ask the United States to step in and force the officers of the corporation to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the governing act of the corporation.

    What I have asked is clearly within the law. Refusal is not. They have a choice: do it under our own internal legal power or be forced to do it by the external legal power. This is not difficult to understand.

    Why are you all so afraid of allowing the People to vote?

    Vale,

    Cato


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63728 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Today's Collective ML Idiocy
    There could be improvement in the worst country!
     
    T. Annaeus Regulus *patiently waiting for North Korea to get its act together*

    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 7:16 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Today's Collective ML Idiocy



    On 4/20/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@yahoo. com> wrote:

    To complain bitterly about censorship on an online mailing list when people are living in countries today in which the government can kill them for speaking their minds is disgraceful, petty, self-indulgence.

    So what you're saying is we should never complain about anything because there will always be someone who is worse off.  If everyone took that attitude there would never be any improvement anywhere in the world.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63729 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    I am not interested in placing my case against the magistrates here for you to decide; it will go before the People.

    You need to read through the archives of this Forum, Coruncanius, if you need to see where and when citizens have felt that abuses have taken place.

    Vale.

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Points to ponder

      
    Salve, Pauline, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis!

      

    Salve Scholastica
     
    You are in heap bid trouble now.
     
    You  know you are not allowed to break the Senate's seal.

        ATS:  You mean that that is from the Senate archives?  Dear, dear.  I thought that it was the Legio XX Lupercalia party.  Surely that isn’t a certain senator, hopping around until he gets his way?  
     
    Next you be sharing the pictures of the Saturnalia celebations, lamp shades and all.

        ATS:  Well, Avitus does insist that we take Saturnalia off, but we haven’t given the students control of the class yet.  No lamp shades, either...but why wasn’t I invited to the Senate Saturnalia party?  
     
    Shame
     
    Vale
     
    Paulinus

    Vale, et valete!
     

    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: fororom@...
    Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 05:48:49 -0400
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Points to ponder



    Salvete.

    A correspondent sent me this yesterday.  There are words of wisdom here which the contentious among us should heed.  There are far too many disturbed people who yield to their emotions, and that, too, to the negative ones.   Let us keep things on an even keel, and exercise the more pleasant emotions if we exercise those at all; as it says, the 60 seconds of anger, etc., cost a full minute of happiness.  


    ========================================================

    Today is International Disturbed People's Day




    Please send an encouraging message to a disturbed friend... just as I've done and I know a lot of disturbed people............

            [we have a slew of them here...]



    *
    Every sixty seconds you spend angry, upset or mad, is a full minute of happiness you'll never get back.




    Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.
    Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance
    =============================================

     
      One could, however, make a case for a more sedate version of said activity, as this group looks a bit distoibed in another sense.  

        Valete,

        The usually cheerful magistra.





      
        

         
       Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/63677

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63731 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Intercessio
    Dear Lucius Coruncanius Cato,

    >Was not suposed the people have the right to freely express their ideas
    >(even if they are binding or not)? What changed from yesterday?

    I'm sorry b ut I really don't understand your question or what you are
    referring to.
    I have hardly taken part in the conversations here so I'm wondering if you
    have the correct person.
    Vale,
    Diana

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Lucius Coruncanius Cato" <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:10 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio


    Salve Aventina,

    I am still waiting for an answer...

    --

    Di te incolumem custodiant.

    L. Coruncanius Cato

    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
    escribió:
    De: Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:07

    Salve,

    Was not suposed the people have the right to freely express their ideas
    (even if they are binding or not)? What changed from yesterday?

    --

    Di te incolumem custodiant.

    L. Coruncanius Cato

    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@yahoo. com>
    escribió:
    De: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@yahoo. com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 10:59


    Dear Kristoffer,

    I also thought that you resigned. Aren't you the former praetor Titus
    Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus?
    Vale,
    Diana
    Kristoffer From <from@darkeye. net>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Monday, 20 April, 2009 1:05:10
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intercessio



    Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
    > The key phrase is 'reasonably moderated'. This is unreasonable by any
    > measure
    >

    Here is what you wrote:

    "I hearby pronounce intercessio against the moderation of citizens by
    the Praetors Gneaus Equitius Marinus and Publius Memmius Albucius."

    Ignoring misspellings, you are issuing intercessio against ALL
    moderation of citizens by the praetors. ALL moderation. Even the,
    constitutionally protected, "reasonable" moderation.

    /Pius
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63732 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Avete;

    On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:08 PM, enodia2002 wrote:
    >
    >
    > As I recall that was the first song they played when they set up the radio
    > system during the first Gulf War :)
    >
    > V Rutilia
    >

    Living in a military neighborhood, when I saw that the Desert Storm
    had begun, I put my speakers out the window and played the "Blue
    Light" sequence from the "Apocalypse Now" soundtrack. . .

    Valete - Venator Veteranus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63733 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Complain to the Tribunes. They are responsible for reporting what is going on in the Senate.

    I wont break the seal. Neither will Cato.

    The Tribunes are responsible for giving updates to the People.

    Vale,

    Sulla


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato Equitio Catoni SPD.
    >
    > "The list of illegalities committed by the current magistrates has been
    > cited over and over and over again; the list simply gets bigger almost
    > daily as they blunder into some new error."
    >
    > I have not seen any list anywhere. What I've seen is some people talking about alleged illegalities, as for example the elections. We are going to have elections in some days, so that "illegallity" is fixed.
    > So please, would you explain the people, to whom you had requested to raise for their rights, what exactly are these alleged illegalities? The people, or the members of a corporation, have the right to know. So, please, as a member of this corporation I demand again to know for what reasons exactly it should be a (by the way, inconstitutional) vote to remove our magistrates/officers.
    >
    > I am not at all afraid of letting the people speak, but I demand the people speak sense, clear and truthful. What I am afraid of is about the instrumental use of invisible threats. This is called the fear therapy.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
    > De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:54
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato Coruncanio sal.
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    >
    >
    > You are incorrect both in general and particular, Coruncanius. You wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > "When Sulla and Equitius Cato launch threats about starting large and expensive lawsuits, without saying at all what are the presumpt illegalities commited (myself and other citizens asked two weeks ago but we did not got any answer), they are 'expressing rightfully'. "
    >
    >
    >
    > I, for one, am not threatening a lawsuit.
    >
    >
    >
    > The list of illegalities committed by the current magistrates has been cited over and over and over again; the list simply gets bigger almost daily as they blunder into some new error.
    >
    >
    >
    > Talk about not getting an answer! After you copy the edictum de sermone twice to this List with all kinds of big letters, I asked you to explain how the post of mine was deleted violated the edictum. Your answer was basically "if the praetor did it it must be OK". You think that's a good foundation for government? "If he was arrested he must be guilty." Maybe that makes sense where you live, but not in the United States, and not under Nova Roman law.
    >
    >
    >
    > I have called on the consuls to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the law of Nova Roma.
    >
    >
    >
    > If they refuse, I will ask the United States to step in and force the officers of the corporation to *allow the People to vote*, as is our right under the governing act of the corporation.
    >
    >
    >
    > What I have asked is clearly within the law. Refusal is not. They have a choice: do it under our own internal legal power or be forced to do it by the external legal power. This is not difficult to understand.
    >
    >
    >
    > Why are you all so afraid of allowing the People to vote?
    >
    >
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    >
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63734 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    And not just that either he did not see my post in regards to corporate compliance or he ignored it. Either way, he needs to complain to the Tribunes if he feels he is not receiving adequate information.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cato Coruncanio sal.
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    > I am not interested in placing my case against the magistrates here for you to decide; it will go before the People.
    >
    > You need to read through the archives of this Forum, Coruncanius, if you need to see where and when citizens have felt that abuses have taken place.
    >
    > Vale.
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63735 From: Titus Annaeus Regulus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Salve,
     
    I hope so as well. It will be a close call I fear.
     
    I don't see how one would consider Cato's action unconstitutional as he is calling for the consuls to put a law to the comitia, which is what is outlined in the constitution. Since this list is entirely too full of this sort of argument already, I suggest we simply agree to disagree.
     
    In any case, I have nothing to gain regardless of what happens, so while I'll certainly support his right to do so, I'm by no means supporting that he actually do it. That is completely up to him.
     
    I hope that there is some sort of mechanism to prevent the continuous use of this vote system to the point of it obstructing NR's operation. Even if there isn't I have faith that Cato is acting in good faith for what he believes is best for the Republic (I.e. the law as he has read/interpreted it) and that if a vote fails he will not continue to re-contest the issue. If he does, that will be pretty indicative of a personal vendetta and would cost him dearly in terms of reputation and make any further votes even less likely to succeed.
     
    What we can agree on is that it is tiresome, especially to those on the outside looking in who don't truly understand what is going on. Hopefully everything will soon be made evident and we can resolve this and put it behind us.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annaeus Regulus

    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 6:29 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Annaeo Regulo SPD.

    I hope you recover from those exams!

    To the issue, if Senator Equitius Cato feels something is going wrong and wanted to do things according to law, as he repeats ad nauseam since two weeks, why he does not read the Constitution?
    The propper thing is to prepare a law and raise it to the comitia centuriata. It's written on the constitution, plain and simple.
    As he did not answered this questions, I assume he knows he is not right, and because of that he is threating to go to upper authorities, even when there are internal rules and procedures to follow in this such case. To me, this is blackmail.

    If the Consuls accept the blackmail, the unconstitutional vote takes place and the few citizens left here accept and reassert the magistracies (elected legally only 4 months ago without opposition), what will be the next move? May be declaring the unconstitutionality of calling a vote when the correct procedure should have been raising a law to the comitia centuriata? And, after that? This nonsense can go on until the end of time.

    People are tired, so to all of accusators, I demand you (again) to speak sense and tell publicly what exactly are those presumpt "illegalities" commited, by whom and when. If not, then you have nothing, and then you are appealing "upper authorities" to try to throw away some magistrates just because you don't like them.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
    De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:33

    Salve,
     
    You are most welcome and my thanks to you as well for your courteous rebuttal. All my energy is wasted on exams, I have none left to yell and be exciting. =)
     
    Didn't Cato call for the consuls to call for a vote in the comitia? If he himself is calling for the vote it is illegal, but I had understood he was calling for those with the authority to do so call the matter to a vote, else he would take the matter to external authorities.
     
    I hope Senator Cato does not object to me using a snippet of his previous post. It goes as follows:
     
    "If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am, in fact, giving the consuls the very opportunity you demand - that they call the comitia centuriata in conjunction with the already scheduled elections and have this vote taken under our - "our" as in we citizens' - internal procedures."
     
    I had interpreted this as him requesting the presiding magistrates to call for a vote. He believes that there is dereliction of duties, and so he has called for the proper authorities to call the matter to a vote in the comitia. If the internal procedures aren't followed he intends to go to 'higher authorities' as it were. It is his right to do so, so I cannot object to him doing so should we refuse to allow him to exercise that right here.
     
    With blackmail one demands a bribe in order to avoid negative consequences. Here the consequence is foregone. There will be a vote. He merely wishes to go through the NR legal system rather than bringing in American authorities. That is the 'courtesy' I was referring to.
     
    What would you have Cato do amice? Other than simply drop the whole thing of course. I have heard enough to believe that that will not be happening. Regardless of whether or not I agree with Cato, I support him doing what he believes it is his duty to do. If the majority disagrees, then the vote will show this and that will be it. To believe laws are being and then doing nothing would be more of a transgression in my view.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annæus Regulus
     
     

    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 9:23 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    I thank you for your answer. It's hard to find someone who speaks sense and quiet these weeks. :)

    But, I must stand within my position. Equitius Cato has NOT the right to call for a vote to remove any magistrate, because the current constitution says, in Chap. IV A:
    "Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him."

    As far as I know, a citizen's "call for a vote against a magistrate" it's not a "law originating in the comitia". And because of this, if Equitius Cato says "if I don't hear about you I will force the vote" is, here and everywhere and despite of useless rethoric, blackmail.

    If Equitius Cato would have a "courtesy", then he sould do things propperly.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
    De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:38

    Salve,
     
    I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
     
    If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
     
    Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annæus Regulus

    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
    " If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

    1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
    2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

    This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
    De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

    Cato Catoni sal.

    Salve Cato.

    I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
    >
    > I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63736 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Nefastus publicus this Tuesday
    Praetor Albucius omn. s.d.

    In a handful of minutes a new NP dies will begin. The praetura will not work, and I have reminded the praetorian moderators to be attentive on the respect of this special day.

    That means that there will not be any new specific moderation, no special praetorian warning having been issued on any topic.

    I hope that every one, whatever her/his political sensitivity or personal points of interest, will enjoy a peaceful, though lively, nefastus publicus dies.

    Valete omnes,


    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63737 From: manuseco@hotmail.com,_hijo_de_Zeus?= Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: ANNIVERSARIVM VRBIS ORBIS
    Hodie, a. d. XI Kal. Mai., Parilia, anniuersarium Romae est.

    MMDCCLXII anni! Felicitationes, o Vrbs, Lux Orbis. Salutem tibi in saecula saeculorum, Aeterna Roma.

    Valete.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63738 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: The thought police strike again
    Salve,

    I'm glad to see this. You are abolutely right :)

    Happy Parilia to you and your people.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...> escribió:
    De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@...>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:56

    Salve,
     
    I hope so as well. It will be a close call I fear.
     
    I don't see how one would consider Cato's action unconstitutional as he is calling for the consuls to put a law to the comitia, which is what is outlined in the constitution. Since this list is entirely too full of this sort of argument already, I suggest we simply agree to disagree.
     
    In any case, I have nothing to gain regardless of what happens, so while I'll certainly support his right to do so, I'm by no means supporting that he actually do it. That is completely up to him.
     
    I hope that there is some sort of mechanism to prevent the continuous use of this vote system to the point of it obstructing NR's operation. Even if there isn't I have faith that Cato is acting in good faith for what he believes is best for the Republic (I.e. the law as he has read/interpreted it) and that if a vote fails he will not continue to re-contest the issue. If he does, that will be pretty indicative of a personal vendetta and would cost him dearly in terms of reputation and make any further votes even less likely to succeed.
     
    What we can agree on is that it is tiresome, especially to those on the outside looking in who don't truly understand what is going on. Hopefully everything will soon be made evident and we can resolve this and put it behind us.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annaeus Regulus

    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 6:29 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Annaeo Regulo SPD.

    I hope you recover from those exams!

    To the issue, if Senator Equitius Cato feels something is going wrong and wanted to do things according to law, as he repeats ad nauseam since two weeks, why he does not read the Constitution?
    The propper thing is to prepare a law and raise it to the comitia centuriata. It's written on the constitution, plain and simple.
    As he did not answered this questions, I assume he knows he is not right, and because of that he is threating to go to upper authorities, even when there are internal rules and procedures to follow in this such case. To me, this is blackmail.

    If the Consuls accept the blackmail, the unconstitutional vote takes place and the few citizens left here accept and reassert the magistracies (elected legally only 4 months ago without opposition), what will be the next move? May be declaring the unconstitutionality of calling a vote when the correct procedure should have been raising a law to the comitia centuriata? And, after that? This nonsense can go on until the end of time.

    People are tired, so to all of accusators, I demand you (again) to speak sense and tell publicly what exactly are those presumpt "illegalities" commited, by whom and when. If not, then you have nothing, and then you are appealing "upper authorities" to try to throw away some magistrates just because you don't like them.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
    De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 3:33

    Salve,
     
    You are most welcome and my thanks to you as well for your courteous rebuttal. All my energy is wasted on exams, I have none left to yell and be exciting. =)
     
    Didn't Cato call for the consuls to call for a vote in the comitia? If he himself is calling for the vote it is illegal, but I had understood he was calling for those with the authority to do so call the matter to a vote, else he would take the matter to external authorities.
     
    I hope Senator Cato does not object to me using a snippet of his previous post. It goes as follows:
     
    "If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am, in fact, giving the consuls the very opportunity you demand - that they call the comitia centuriata in conjunction with the already scheduled elections and have this vote taken under our - "our" as in we citizens' - internal procedures."
     
    I had interpreted this as him requesting the presiding magistrates to call for a vote. He believes that there is dereliction of duties, and so he has called for the proper authorities to call the matter to a vote in the comitia. If the internal procedures aren't followed he intends to go to 'higher authorities' as it were. It is his right to do so, so I cannot object to him doing so should we refuse to allow him to exercise that right here.
     
    With blackmail one demands a bribe in order to avoid negative consequences. Here the consequence is foregone. There will be a vote. He merely wishes to go through the NR legal system rather than bringing in American authorities. That is the 'courtesy' I was referring to.
     
    What would you have Cato do amice? Other than simply drop the whole thing of course. I have heard enough to believe that that will not be happening. Regardless of whether or not I agree with Cato, I support him doing what he believes it is his duty to do. If the majority disagrees, then the vote will show this and that will be it. To believe laws are being and then doing nothing would be more of a transgression in my view.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annæus Regulus
     
     

    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 9:23 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    I thank you for your answer. It's hard to find someone who speaks sense and quiet these weeks. :)

    But, I must stand within my position. Equitius Cato has NOT the right to call for a vote to remove any magistrate, because the current constitution says, in Chap. IV A:
    "Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him."

    As far as I know, a citizen's "call for a vote against a magistrate" it's not a "law originating in the comitia". And because of this, if Equitius Cato says "if I don't hear about you I will force the vote" is, here and everywhere and despite of useless rethoric, blackmail.

    If Equitius Cato would have a "courtesy", then he sould do things propperly.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com> escribió:
    De: Titus Annaeus Regulus <t.annaevsregvlvs@ ymail.com>
    Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 1:38

    Salve,
     
    I am going to have to point out that it's not blackmail because there is no negative consequence nor is there any way to avoid the outcome. A vote will occur regardless of what happens. As the magistrates were elected once, they need merely be elected again. While it does seem like an aggressive move, clearly it has been illustrated that there are those who are quite dissatisfied with the current magistrates. It is their right under US law to do this, and so I can't see how accusing Cato of blackmail for following through with his rights can be taken seriously. It is Cato's right to call this vote. The fact that he has called for an internal response first is not obligatory as far as I know, and so rather than being blackmail could be seen as a courtesy.
     
    If the vote removes the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. If the vote does not remove the magistrates, it is the will of the citizens and their right under US law. Cato does not control the outcome of a vote, merely that it will occur. This is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is a chance for the people to decide whether or not the current magistrates are performing their duties.
     
    Just having a vote and getting it over with one way or another would frankly be what I prefer. At least we could all stop fighting about it then.
     
    Vale,
    T. Annæus Regulus

    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:18 PM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again

    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    It is not "choice". It is an utter blackmail:
    " If I hear nothing from you, I will begin the legal process of forcing a vote."

    1st. You are asking the Tribunis Plebis to gather the people to vote.
    2nd. If they don't, you will force it.

    This is blackmail, anywhere you go, anyone you ask.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com> escribió:
    De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@gmail. com>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The thought police strike again
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 12:38

    Cato Catoni sal.

    Salve Cato.

    I'm not sure you understand. Refusal to allow this vote is against the law. I have quoted applicable law clearly and precisely. We have procedures for doing so both under Nova Roman law and under United States law. This is not a choice. It is the law.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.
    >
    > I, Lucius Coruncanius Cato, ask all five Tribunis Plebis not to take this proposal and veto it. This proposal by Sen. Equitius Cato (who does not explain why he charges the magistrates neither what are the charges) is nothing more than an intent to blackmail the Consuls, the Praetores, the Tribunis Plebis and the cives of Nova Roma.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis





    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63739 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Nefastus publicus this Tuesday
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn. SPD.

    So be it. Let's all enjoy this day :)

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El lun, 20/4/09, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> escribió:
    De: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Nefastus publicus this Tuesday
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: lunes, 20 abril, 2009 11:57

    Praetor Albucius omn. s.d.

    In a handful of minutes a new NP dies will begin. The praetura will not work, and I have reminded the praetorian moderators to be attentive on the respect of this special day.

    That means that there will not be any new specific moderation, no special praetorian warning having been issued on any topic.

    I hope that every one, whatever her/his political sensitivity or personal points of interest, will enjoy a peaceful, though lively, nefastus publicus dies.

    Valete omnes,

    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63740 From: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    Salve
     
    I'm more partial to Pennywise, personally
     
     
    Can't go wrong with Slayer either
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDWLp1yIWw&feature=related

    --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
    From: Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Cn. Cornelius Lentulus a man of honor
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Received: Monday, April 20, 2009, 10:14 AM



    On 4/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ gmail.com> wrote:


    Now I have the Judas Priest song, "Breaking the Law" stuck in my head.  For those too young to remember Judas Priest here you go: http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=380C_nVJotY

    Now I prefer http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=16u0wwCfoJ4 "I fought the Law and the Law Won" - the Clash

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63741 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: a.d. XI Kal. Mai. - the Parilia or Palilia
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Maius; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

    "Amulius now being dead and matters quietly disposed, the two brothers
    would neither dwell in Alba without governing there, nor take the
    government into their own hands during the life of their grandfather.
    Having therefore delivered the dominion up into his hands, and paid
    their mother befitting honor, they resolved to live by themselves, and
    build a city in the same place where they were in their infancy
    brought up. This seems the most honorable reason for their departure;
    though perhaps it was necessary, having such a body of slaves and
    fugitives collected about them, either to come to nothing by
    dispersing them, or if not so, then to live with them elsewhere. For
    that the inhabitants of Alba did not think fugitives worthy of being
    received and incorporated as citizens among them plainly appears from
    the matter of the women, an attempt made not wantonly but of
    necessity, because they could not get wives by good-will. For they
    certainly paid unusual respect and honor to those whom they thus
    forcibly seized.

    Not long after the first foundation of the city, they opened a
    sanctuary of refuge for all fugitives, which they called the temple of
    the god Asylaeus, where they received and protected all, delivering
    none back, neither the servant to his master, the debtor to his
    creditor, nor the murderer into the hands of the magistrate, saying it
    was a privileged place, and they could so maintain it by an order of
    the holy oracle; insomuch that the city grew presently very populous,
    for, they say, it consisted at first of no more than a thousand
    houses. But of that hereafter.

    Their minds being fully bent upon building, there arose presently a
    difference about the place where. Romulus chose what was called Roma
    Quadrata, or the Square Rome, and would have the city there. Remus
    laid out a piece of ground on the Aventine Mount, well fortified by
    nature, which was from him called Remonium, but now Rignarium.
    Concluding at last to decide the contest by a divination from a flight
    of birds, and placing themselves apart at some distance, Remus, they
    say, saw six vultures, and Romulus double the number; others say Remus
    did truly see his number, and that Romulus feigned his, but, when
    Remus came to him, that then he did, indeed, see twelve. Hence it is
    that the Romans, in their divinations from birds, chiefly regard the
    vulture, though Herodorus Ponticus relates that Hercules was always
    very joyful when a vulture appeared to him upon any action. For it is
    a creature the least hurtful of any, pernicious neither to corn,
    fruit-tree, nor cattle; it preys only upon carrion, and never kills or
    hurts any living thing; and as for birds, it touches not them, though
    they are dead, as being of its own species, whereas eagles, owls, and
    hawks mangle and kill their own fellow-creatures; yet, as Aeschylus
    says,

    'What bird is clean that preys on fellow bird?'

    Besides all other birds are, so to say, never out of our eyes; they
    let themselves be seen of us continually; but a vulture is a very rare
    sight, and you can seldom meet with a man that has seen their young;
    their rarity and infrequency has raised a strange opinion in some,
    that they come to us from some other world; as soothsayers ascribe a
    divine origination to all things not produced either of nature or of
    themselves.

    When Remus knew the cheat, he was much displeased; and as Romulus was
    casting up a ditch, where he designed the foundation of the citywall,
    he turned some pieces of the work to ridicule, and obstructed others:
    at last, as he was in contempt leaping over it, some say Romulus
    himself struck him, others Celer, one of his companions; he fell,
    however, and in the scuffle Faustulus also was slain, and Plistinus,
    who, being Faustulus's brother, story tells us, helped to bring up
    Romulus. Celer upon this fled instantly into Tuscany, and from him the
    Romans call all men that are swift of foot Celeres; and because
    Quintus Metellus, at his father's funeral, in a few days' time gave
    the people a show of gladiators, admiring his expedition in getting it
    ready, they gave him the name of Celer.

    Romulus, having buried his brother Remus, together with his two
    foster-fathers, on the mount Remonia, set to building his city; and
    sent for men out of Tuscany, who directed him by sacred usages and
    written rules in all the ceremonies to be observed, as in a religious
    rite. First, they dug a round trench about that which is now the
    Comitium, or Court of Assembly, and into it solemnly threw the first-
    fruits of all things either good by custom or necessary by nature;
    lastly, every man taking a small piece of earth of the country from
    whence he came, they all threw them in promiscuously together. This
    trench they call, as they do the heavens, Mundus; making which their
    center, they described the city in a circle round it. Then the founder
    fitted to a plow a brazen plowshare, and, yoking together a bull and a
    cow, drove himself a deep line or furrow round the bounds; while the
    business of those that followed after was to see that whatever earth
    was thrown up should be turned all inwards towards the city, and not
    to let any clod lie outside. With this line they described the wall,
    and called it, by a contraction, Pomoerium, that is, post murum, after
    or beside the wall; and where they designed to make a gate, there they
    took out the share, carried the plow over, and left a space; for which
    reason they consider the whole wall as holy, except where the gates
    are; for had they adjudged them also sacred, they could not, without
    offense to religion, have given free ingress and egress for the
    necessaries of human life, some of which are in themselves unclean.

    As for the day they began to build the city, it is universally agreed
    to have been the twenty-first of April, and that day the Romans
    annually keep holy, calling it their country's birthday. At first,
    they say, they sacrificed no living creature on this day, thinking it
    fit to preserve the feast of their country's birthday pure and without
    stain of blood. Yet before ever the city was built, there was a feast
    of herdsmen and shepherds kept on this day, which went by the name of
    Palilia." - Plutarch, Lives, "Romulus" 9-12


    "After the government of Alba was thus transferred to Numitor, Romulus
    and Remus were seized with the desire of building a city in the
    locality where they had been exposed. There was the superfluous
    population of the Alban and Latin towns, to these were added the
    shepherds: it was natural to hope that with all these Alba would be
    small and Lavinium small in comparison with the city which was to be
    founded. These pleasant anticipations were disturbed by the ancestral
    curse -ambition-which led to a deplorable quarrel over what was at
    first a trivial matter. As they were twins and no claim to precedence
    could be based on seniority, they decided to consult the tutelary
    deities of the place by means of augury as to who was to give his name
    to the new city, and who was to rule it after it had been founded.
    Romulus accordingly selected the Palatine as his station for
    observation, Remus the Aventine. Remus is said to have been the first
    to receive an omen: six vultures appeared to him. The augury had just
    been announced to Romulus when double the number appeared to him. Each
    was saluted as king by his own party. The one side based their claim
    on the priority of the appearance, the other on the number of the
    birds. Then followed an angry altercation; heated passions led to
    bloodshed; in the tumult Remus was killed. The more common report is
    that Remus contemptuously jumped over the newly raised walls and was
    forthwith killed by the enraged Romulus, who exclaimed, 'So shall it
    be henceforth with every one who leaps over my walls.' Romulus thus
    became sole ruler, and the city was called after him, its founder." -
    Livy, History of Rome 1.6-7


    "The town, which in the course of centuries grew up as Rome, in its
    original form embraced according to trustworthy testimony only the
    Palatine, or 'square Rome' ('Roma quadrata'), as it was called in
    later times from the irregularly quadrangular form of the Palatine
    hill. The gates and walls that enclosed this original city remained
    visible down to the period of the empire: the sites of two of the
    former, the Porta Romana near S. Giorgio in Velabro, and the Porta
    Mugionis at the Arch of Titus, are still known to us, and the Palatine
    ring-wall is described by Tacitus from his own observation at least on
    the sides looking towards the Aventine and Caelian. Many traces
    indicate that this was the centre and original seat of the urban
    settlement. On the Palatine was to be found the sacred symbol of that
    settlement, the 'outfit-vault' ('mundus') as it was called, in which
    the first settlers deposited a sufficiency of everything necessary for
    a household and added a clod of their dear native earth. There, too,
    was situated the building in which all the curies assembled for
    religious and other purposes, each at its own hearth ('curiae
    veteres'). There stood the meetinghouse of the "Leapers" ('curia
    Saliorum') in which also the sacred shields of Mars were preserved,
    the sanctuary of the "Wolves" ('Lupercal'), and the dwelling of the
    priest of Jupiter. On and near this hill the legend of the founding of
    the city placed the scenes of its leading incidents, and the straw-
    covered house of Romulus, the shepherd's hut of his foster-father
    Faustulus, the sacred fig-tree towards which the cradle with the twins
    had floated, the cornelian cherry-tree that sprang from the shaft of
    the spear which the founder of the city had hurled from the Aventine
    over the valley of the Circus into this enclosure, and other such
    sacred relics were pointed out to the believer. Temples in the proper
    sense of the term were still at this time unknown, and accordingly the
    Palatine has nothing of that sort to show belonging to the primitive
    age. The public assemblies of the community were early transferred to
    another locality, so that their original site is unknown; only it may
    be conjectured that the free space round the mundus, afterwards called
    the 'area Apollinis', was the primitive place of assembly for the
    burgesses and the senate, and the stage erected over the -mundus-
    itself the primitive seat of justice of the Roman community." -
    Mommsen, History of Rome ch. 1 p.22

    "The night has gone: dawn breaks. I'm called upon to sing
    Of the Parilia, and not in vain if kindly Pales aids me.
    Kindly Pales, if I respect your festival,
    Then aid me as I sing of pastoral rites.
    Indeed, I've often brought ashes of a calf, and stalks
    Of beans, in chaste purification, in my full hands:
    Indeed, I've leapt the threefold line of flames,
    And the wet laurel's sprinkled me with dew.
    The goddess, moved, blesses the work: my ship
    Sets sail: may favourable winds fill my sails.
    Go, people: bring fumigants from the Virgin's altar:
    Vesta will grant them, Vesta's gift will purify.
    The fumigants are horse blood and calf's ashes,
    And thirdly the stripped stalks of stringy beans.
    Shepherd, purify your sated sheep at twilight:
    First sprinkle the ground with water, and sweep it,
    And decorate the sheepfold with leaves and branches,
    And hide the festive door with a trailing garland.
    Make dark smoke with pure burning sulphur,
    And let the sheep bleat, in contact with the smoke.
    Burn male-olive wood, and pine, and juniper fronds,
    And let scorched laurel crackle in the hearth.
    Let a basket of millet keep the millet cakes company:
    The rural goddess particularly loves that food.
    Add meats, and a pail of her milk, and when the meat
    Is cut, offer the warm milk, pray to sylvan Pales,
    Saying: `Protect the cattle and masters alike:
    And drive everything harmful from my stalls.
    If I've fed sheep on sacred ground, sat under a sacred tree,
    While they've unwittingly browsed the grass on graves:
    If I've entered a forbidden grove, or the nymphs
    And the god, half-goat, have fled at sight of me:
    If my knife has pruned the copse of a shady bough,
    To fill a basket of leaves for a sick ewe:
    Forgive me. Don't count it against me, if I've sheltered
    My flock, while it hailed, in some rustic shrine,
    Don't harm me for troubling the pools. Nymphs,
    Forgive, if trampling hooves have muddied your waters.
    Goddess, placate the springs, and placate their divinities
    On our behalf, and the gods too, scattered in every grove...
    We have come To the City's founding.
    Great Quirinus, witness your deeds!
    Amulius had already been punished, and all
    The shepherd folk were subject to the twins,
    Who agreed to gather the men together to build walls:
    The question was as to which of them should do it.
    Romulus said: `There's no need to fight about it:
    Great faith is placed in birds, let's judge by birds.'
    That seemed fine. One tried the rocks of the wooded Palatine,
    The other climbed at dawn to the Aventine's summit.
    Remus saw six birds, Romulus twelve in a row.
    They stuck to the pact, and Romulus was granted the City.
    A day was chosen for him to mark out the walls with a plough.
    The festival of Pales was near: the work was started then.
    They trenched to the solid rock, threw fruits of the harvest
    Into its depths, with soil from the ground nearby.
    The ditch was filled with earth, and topped by an altar,
    And a fire was duly kindled on the new-made hearth.
    Then, bearing down on the plough handle, he marked the walls:
    The yoke was borne by a white cow and a snowy ox.
    So spoke the king: `Be with me, as I found my City,
    Jupiter, Father Mavors, and Mother Vesta:
    And all you gods, whom piety summons, take note.
    Let my work be done beneath your auspices.
    May it last long, and rule a conquered world,
    All subject, from the rising to the setting day.'
    Jupiter added his omen to Romulus' prayer, with thunder
    On the left, and his lightning flashed leftward in the sky.
    Delighted by this, the citizens laid foundations,
    And the new walls were quickly raised.
    The work was overseen by Celer, whom Romulus named,
    Saying: `Celer, make it your care to see no one crosses
    Walls or trench that we've ploughed: kill whoever dares.'
    Remus, unknowingly, began to mock the low walls,
    saying: `Will the people be safe behind these?'
    He leapt them, there and then. Celer struck the rash man
    With his shovel: Remus sank, bloodied, to the stony ground.
    When the king heard, he smothered his rising tears,
    And kept the grief locked in his heart.
    He wouldn't weep in public, but set an example of fortitude,
    Saying: `So dies the enemy who shall cross my walls.'
    But he granted him funeral honours, and couldn't
    Hold back his tears, and the love he tried to hide was obvious.
    When they set down the bier, he gave it a last kiss,
    And said: `Farewell, my brother, taken against my will!'
    And he anointed the body for burning. Faustulus, and Acca
    Her hair loosened in mourning, did as he did.
    Then the as yet unnamed Quirites wept for the youth:
    And finally the pyre, wet by their tears, was lit.
    A City arose, destined (who'd have believed it then?)
    To plant its victorious foot upon all the lands...
    And as long as you stand, sublime, in a conquered world,
    May all others fail to reach your shoulders." - Ovid, Fasti IV


    Today is the celebration of the Parilia. The Parilia is the
    festival of Pales, the tutelary divinity of shepherds. (Some of the
    ancient writers called this festival the Palilia.) The first part of
    the solemnities was a public purification by fire and smoke. The
    things burned in order to produce this purifying smoke were the blood
    of the October horse, the ashes of the unborn calves from the
    Fordicidia, and the shells of beans. The Vestals mixed these
    ingredients to create suffimentum, a sort of incense that was
    distributed at the altar of Vesta as a fertility charm.

    The private rituals were observed primarily by farmers in rural areas.
    At earliest dawn the sheep fold had to be cleansed with water, swept,
    and decorated with laurel branches and a wreath at its entrance. The
    sheep were fumigated with sulfur, and then a fire of olive and pine
    wood was kindled. The crackling of laurel branches thrown into it gave
    a good omen. Offerings of millet, food, and pails of milk were
    brought. Facing the east, the shepherds then prayed to Pales four
    times, seeking protection for themselves and their flocks and
    forgiveness for any unwitting transgressions. They washed their hands
    in dew, drank burranica (milk mixed with must), and were sprinkled
    with water shaken from laurel branches. The worshipers lay about
    eating and drinking on the grass and after twilight leaped through
    bonfires of straw set three in a row, a rite which they believed would
    make women fruitful.

    Ovid relates that the Parilia was believed to be older than the
    foundation of Rome, and it was supposed that Romulus laid out the
    first boundary of the city on the very day of the festival in 753 BC,
    so that April 21 was henceforth celebrated as the birthday of Rome. By
    the third century AD, the old name Palilia had been replaced with
    Romaea, the Roman Festival, because of its association with the
    birthday of Rome - natalis urbis Romaea. Numa Pompilius is also said
    to have been born on this day.

    Valete bene, and Happy Birthday to Rome!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63742 From: peter@peterorvetti.com Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: oy
    Every time I rejoin this list, I am quickly reminded why I opted out the time before.

    The lack of perspective here is astounding.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63743 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: For the Parilia: the language a lot of Romans spoke, and how to lea
    For the Parilia:  the language a lot of Romans spoke, and how to learn it A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

        Inasmuch as we shall soon begin the celebration of the birthday of Rome, it seemed appropriate to note that the Romans tended to speak Latin, and that we should make efforts in that direction.  Generally, formal courses are better for this purpose than self-study, and our students seem to do reasonably well at them.   Some of our Latin courses are in their final stages, and next year we shall be offering another round of them, plus the combined Sermo Latinus course we could not offer this year.  Those who wish to take Latin courses must have the textbook in hand before the start of class and be prepared to spend a good deal of time on the absorption of the course content and preparation of written homework as well as fulfill any prerequisites.  The separate Sermo courses have a new lesson every three days, counting inclusively, while the combined one has one every other day.  There is written homework or a test after every seventh lesson.  The Grammatica classes have a longer exercise every week until the end of the second year, when longer readings are attempted at a slower pace.  We have not yet finalized the start dates for the Sermo courses as Avitus is away, but tentatively the separate ones will start in early October, and the combined one in late August/early September, when Grammatica II will also begin.  

        Despite numerous obstacles, several students have persisted, and are to be commended.  

    Valete.  
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63744 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-20
    Subject: Re: Call for Papers (Addendum)
    Oh, and in case anyone is wondering about contact information, just email me (waltms1 (at) yahoo (dot) com) if you are thinking about submitting something, whether already written or not. There's still a lot of time (months) left.

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete!
    >
    > I'm now officially calling for article submissions for my recon journal project. The working title of the journal is "Journal of Ancient Mediterranean Reconstructionism". Topics can be on any aspect of ancient life that does or may impact reconstructionist efforts. The scope involves the entire ancient Mediterranean and lands that have fallen under the influence of cultures therefrom. This offers a fair amount of flexibility given the extent of the Hellenistic kingdoms and Roman Empire.
    >
    > Types of submissions:
    >
    > Regular article: 10+ pages (although, something around 20 pages or more is encouraged).
    >
    > Short article/note: 1-9 pages. Tackles some narrow issue and probably easier to write for those who aren't familiar with a sufficient amount of secondary literature for writing a regular article.
    >
    > review article: a well informed review of a book or long article.
    >
    > The topics can be historical, philological, anthropological or practical in orientation. Examples: A study of how Roman law developed into Ius Commune and what this might say about modern adaptations of Roman law (historical); a fresh translation and edition of a Latin, Greek, etc prayer accompanied by linguistic and historical commentary (philological); the psychology of religious reconstructionism, comparing and contrasting it with more eclectic efforts (anthropological); a new take on substitutions for ingredients in neo-Roman cuisine (practical).
    >
    > All articles must be scholarly in nature, taking into account the relevant primary and secondary literature on the subject. All sources must be properly cited. The style to be used is the Chicago Manual of Style (http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html).
    >
    > I'm also still looking to expand the group of referees. If you have a master's (MA/MPhil/qualifying Licentiate--if the L. was 5-6 years with a thesis, it counts) or PhD in Classics or a related field and would be willing to referee blinded copies of articles, please let me know!
    >
    > Any suggestions/comments on any of the above are welcome!
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63745 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: On The Res Publica
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    In honor of the birth of the City - and in view of the current challenges facing us - I decided to re-read and think about Polybius' definition of the Roman system of government, found in "The Histories", Book VI section V.

    Polybius rejoices in the system of checks and balances the Romans had: on a material level, the consuls need the Senate to supply them with arms and supplies for war, the Senate needs the People to ratify its suggestions as law, and the People need the consuls to lead them in war and the Senate to watch over the industry of the State.

    Now I ask you, my fellow citizens: how do we keep these checks and balances alive? How do we, if we think injustices are being done, act to correct them - or at least bring them to a place where we, the People, can collectively, publicly, and openly decide how we think our magistrates should act?

    "Why is this happening?"
    "Because I say so."
    This may be an exchange of some value when a parent is dealing with a child, but it is of no value whatsoever between citizens of a free res publica and its magistrates.

    This is what has driven me to call for the comitia centuriata to meet. I do not see any other way. If any of you know one, I ask you to describe it here.

    Take it as understood that I do *not* believe that our magistrates simply will listen and act accordingly because up to now they have not, and frankly I do not trust them to do so in the future based only on their word. "Be quiet and let them do their jobs" is *not* an acceptable answer, based on their past performance. They have heard the refrains of abuse and violation and yet remain silent and do nothing - or worse.

    So, APART FROM simply assuming that they will act with any greater consideration of or obedience to the law, how do we compel them to obey it?

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63747 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Favete Linguis! - Facilitate the ritual by being silent!

    respect this great feria; respect Rome, respect your fellow citizens

    all of us are celebrating the Parilia, the birth day of Rome, and Diva Palatua with joy and happiness!

    If anyone has anything to say today let it be about our Mother, Roma, who nourishes us all.

    I am going to think of the Nova Romans in Roma, the Urbs,
    eternal city; Dexter, Livia, my heart is with them.

    Diva Palatua be propitious to us
    Marca Hortensia Maior







    In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete.
    >
    > In honor of the birth of the City - and in view of the current challenges facing us - I decided to re-read and think about Polybius' definition of the Roman system of government, found in "The Histories", Book VI section V.
    >
    > Polybius rejoices in the system of checks and balances the Romans had: on a material level, the consuls need the Senate to supply them with arms and supplies for war, the Senate needs the People to ratify its suggestions as law, and the People need the consuls to lead them in war and the Senate to watch over the industry of the State.
    >
    > Now I ask you, my fellow citizens: how do we keep these checks and balances alive? How do we, if we think injustices are being done, act to correct them - or at least bring them to a place where we, the People, can collectively, publicly, and openly decide how we think our magistrates should act?
    >
    > "Why is this happening?"
    > "Because I say so."
    > This may be an exchange of some value when a parent is dealing with a child, but it is of no value whatsoever between citizens of a free res publica and its magistrates.
    >
    > This is what has driven me to call for the comitia centuriata to meet. I do not see any other way. If any of you know one, I ask you to describe it here.
    >
    > Take it as understood that I do *not* believe that our magistrates simply will listen and act accordingly because up to now they have not, and frankly I do not trust them to do so in the future based only on their word. "Be quiet and let them do their jobs" is *not* an acceptable answer, based on their past performance. They have heard the refrains of abuse and violation and yet remain silent and do nothing - or worse.
    >
    > So, APART FROM simply assuming that they will act with any greater consideration of or obedience to the law, how do we compel them to obey it?
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63748 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Yes, please, Maior, stay silent. For all our benefit.

    Vale ac Optime Valete!

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Maior" <rory12001@...>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:16 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus

    > Favete Linguis! - Facilitate the ritual by being silent!
    >
    > respect this great feria; respect Rome, respect your fellow citizens
    >
    > all of us are celebrating the Parilia, the birth day of Rome, and Diva
    > Palatua with joy and happiness!
    >
    > If anyone has anything to say today let it be about our Mother, Roma, who
    > nourishes us all.
    >
    > I am going to think of the Nova Romans in Roma, the Urbs,
    > eternal city; Dexter, Livia, my heart is with them.
    >
    > Diva Palatua be propitious to us
    > Marca Hortensia Maior
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
    >>
    >> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >>
    >> Salvete.
    >>
    >> In honor of the birth of the City - and in view of the current challenges
    >> facing us - I decided to re-read and think about Polybius' definition of
    >> the Roman system of government, found in "The Histories", Book VI section
    >> V.
    >>
    >> Polybius rejoices in the system of checks and balances the Romans had: on
    >> a material level, the consuls need the Senate to supply them with arms
    >> and supplies for war, the Senate needs the People to ratify its
    >> suggestions as law, and the People need the consuls to lead them in war
    >> and the Senate to watch over the industry of the State.
    >>
    >> Now I ask you, my fellow citizens: how do we keep these checks and
    >> balances alive? How do we, if we think injustices are being done, act to
    >> correct them - or at least bring them to a place where we, the People,
    >> can collectively, publicly, and openly decide how we think our
    >> magistrates should act?
    >>
    >> "Why is this happening?"
    >> "Because I say so."
    >> This may be an exchange of some value when a parent is dealing with a
    >> child, but it is of no value whatsoever between citizens of a free res
    >> publica and its magistrates.
    >>
    >> This is what has driven me to call for the comitia centuriata to meet. I
    >> do not see any other way. If any of you know one, I ask you to describe
    >> it here.
    >>
    >> Take it as understood that I do *not* believe that our magistrates simply
    >> will listen and act accordingly because up to now they have not, and
    >> frankly I do not trust them to do so in the future based only on their
    >> word. "Be quiet and let them do their jobs" is *not* an acceptable
    >> answer, based on their past performance. They have heard the refrains of
    >> abuse and violation and yet remain silent and do nothing - or worse.
    >>
    >> So, APART FROM simply assuming that they will act with any greater
    >> consideration of or obedience to the law, how do we compel them to obey
    >> it?
    >>
    >> Valete,
    >>
    >> Cato
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63749 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus

    Quirites!

     

    By all means, let us be silent and let the corruption of Nova Roma’s magistrates fester for one day unattended. Let us allow the consuls another day to sit idly by and do nothing to address the problems here. Let us give our praetors a day to practice their new-found piety, cynically adopted when it suited them. And let us forget for one day that Nova Roma is a corporation in the real world, with real responsibilities and real duties.

     

    So let us spit on the graves of our Roman ancestors and hurl offal at the statues of the gods to prove that we don’t care what happens to the Republic as long as we get a day off!

     

    Meanwhile, I’ll be spending the day honoring Roma by standing up and calling for leadership instead of lethargy, for purpose and resolve instead of simpering piety. I will offer to Jupiter my deeds as a Roman and a Valerian.

     

    M. Valerius Potitus

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maior
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:17 PM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus

     




    Favete Linguis! - Facilitate the ritual by being silent!

    respect this great feria; respect Rome , respect your fellow citizens

    all of us are celebrating the Parilia, the birth day of Rome , and Diva Palatua with joy and happiness!

    If anyone has anything to say today let it be about our Mother, Roma, who nourishes us all.

    I am going to think of the Nova Romans in Roma, the Urbs,
    eternal city; Dexter, Livia, my heart is with them.

    Diva Palatua be propitious to us
    Marca Hortensia Maior

    In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@.. .> wrote:

    >
    > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete.
    >
    > In honor of the birth of the City - and in view of the current challenges
    facing us - I decided to re-read and think about Polybius' definition of the Roman system of government, found in "The Histories", Book VI section V.
    >
    > Polybius rejoices in the system of checks and balances the Romans had: on
    a material level, the consuls need the Senate to supply them with arms and supplies for war, the Senate needs the People to ratify its suggestions as law, and the People need the consuls to lead them in war and the Senate to watch over the industry of the State.
    >
    > Now I ask you, my fellow citizens: how do we keep these checks and
    balances alive? How do we, if we think injustices are being done, act to correct them - or at least bring them to a place where we, the People, can collectively, publicly, and openly decide how we think our magistrates should act?
    >
    > "Why is this happening?"
    > "Because I say so."
    > This may be an exchange of some value when a parent is dealing with a
    child, but it is of no value whatsoever between citizens of a free res publica and its magistrates.
    >
    > This is what has driven me to call for the comitia centuriata to meet. I
    do not see any other way. If any of you know one, I ask you to describe it here.
    >
    > Take it as understood that I do *not* believe that our magistrates simply
    will listen and act accordingly because up to now they have not, and frankly I do not trust them to do so in the future based only on their word. "Be quiet and let them do their jobs" is *not* an acceptable answer, based on their past performance. They have heard the refrains of abuse and violation and yet remain silent and do nothing - or worse.
    >
    > So, APART FROM simply assuming that they will act with any greater
    consideration of or obedience to the law, how do we compel them to obey it?
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Cato
    >

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63750 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: LAST CALL OF CANDIDATES FOR THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
    M.. Cur. Complutensis Consul omnes civibus SPD

    Today ends the time to present the candidacies for the following offices:

    I CURULE AEDILE: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Mai. 2762 (May 1st, 2009). Must be assiduus.

    I QUAESTOR: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Mai. 2762 (May 1st, 2009). Must be assiduus.

    II DIRIBITORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Mai. 2762 (May 1st, 2009). Must be assiduus.

    I CUSTOS: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Mai. 2762 (May 1st, 2009). Must be assiduus.

    Candidacies will be accepted until 21 April 2009 (18.00 hrs CET Rome; 12.00 hrs EST Philadelphia).

    All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand for office directly by sending a message to M.Curiatius.Complutensis at NovaRoma dot org in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the word "candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me your full Nova Roman name and the office for which you will campaign. Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be accepted. You must write to me directly.

    Starting tomorrow I will publish the list of candidates.

    Curate ut valete


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63751 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Clarifying a few things
    Salvete,
     
    Thank you to those who sent me private emails and who posted to the ML your support. I deeply appreciate it. I was not going to post anymore to this list, but some things have been said that I feel need clarification.
     
    First, I do accept the apologies of Diana Octavia Aventina and Fabius Maximus, and I do apologise to Fabius for the comments I made about him. I realize now he spoke out of frustration and so did I.
     
    Second, I don't know who this "Bill Hawks" is or if he has a Roman name. I don't know if he subscribes to the ML. I don't remember ever having seen his name before. I don't know if he was trying to just "inform" me or if he really did want to hurt me. I did try to reply to him to find out, but his email bounced. 
     
    Third, I do realise that these comments were made in the Back Alley and not on the ML. Some have pointed out that the Back Alley is not an official list of Nova Roma. That may be, but as Julia Aquila points out, no matter where such comments are made, they nevertheless disrespect not just my person, but more importantly the Sacred Office of the Vestals.
     
    Then there are my two Vestal trainees, neither of which have wanted to join Nova Roma. I have been trying so very hard to change their minds, but if they see not only the Vestale Maxima being disrespected, but the Sacred Office of the Vestals as well, then why should they want to join Nova Roma?
     
    Despite what was said, I still believe in Nova Roma whole-heartedly, but not as a role-playing group as some would like us to be and stay forever. I know that there are good people in Nova Roma who want to see this dream become a reality and will do all that they can to make it so. They will never give up and neither will I.
     
    Please, Mr. Hawks, if you are reading this, do not tell me anymore what they say about me in the Back Alley. Do not waste your time. Let them say what they want. I will not be disturbed by it anymore, for Great Mother Vesta knows the truth.
     
    Valete bene in pace Deorum,
     
    Maxima Valeria Messallina
    Sacerdos Vestalis
     
    "Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
    "Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63752 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: On The Res Publica- Dies Nefastus Publicus
    It has been my pleasure to work these past several years with citizens and magistrates who in good will bend all their energies to refounding the culture and soul, if not the walls, of ancient Rome, the mother of all. Joining with the voice of the ancient poet I ask the gods to keep evil and misfortune away and to grant us prosperity.

    A. S. Kline's translation of Ovid's FASTI, Book IV: April 21: The Parilia:


    The night has gone: dawn breaks. I'm called upon to sing

    Of the Parilia, and not in vain if kindly Pales aids me.

    Kindly Pales, if I respect your festival,

    Then aid me as I sing of pastoral rites.

    Indeed, I've often brought ashes of a calf, and stalks

    Of beans, in chaste purification, in my full hands:

    Indeed, I've leapt the threefold line of flames,

    And the wet laurel's sprinkled me with dew.

    The goddess, moved, blesses the work: my ship

    Sets sail: may favourable winds fill my sails.

    Go, people: bring fumigants from the Virgin's altar:

    Vesta will grant them, Vesta's gift will purify.

    The fumigants are horse blood and calf's ashes,

    And thirdly the stripped stalks of stringy beans.

    Shepherd, purify your sated sheep at twilight:

    First sprinkle the ground with water, and sweep it,

    And decorate the sheepfold with leaves and branches,

    And hide the festive door with a trailing garland.

    Make dark smoke with pure burning sulphur,

    And let the sheep bleat, in contact with the smoke.

    Burn male-olive wood, and pine, and juniper fronds,

    And let scorched laurel crackle in the hearth.

    Let a basket of millet keep the millet cakes company:

    The rural goddess particularly loves that food.

    Add meats, and a pail of her milk, and when the meat

    Is cut, offer the warm milk, pray to sylvan Pales,

    Saying: `Protect the cattle and masters alike:

    And drive everything harmful from my stalls.

    If I've fed sheep on sacred ground, sat under a sacred tree,

    While they've unwittingly browsed the grass on graves:

    If I've entered a forbidden grove, or the nymphs

    And the god, half-goat, have fled at sight of me:

    If my knife has pruned the copse of a shady bough,

    To fill a basket of leaves for a sick ewe:

    Forgive me. Don't count it against me, if I've sheltered

    My flock, while it hailed, in some rustic shrine,

    Don't harm me for troubling the pools. Nymphs,

    Forgive, if trampling hooves have muddied your waters.

    Goddess, placate the springs, and placate their divinities

    On our behalf, and the gods too, scattered in every grove.

    Let us not gaze on Dryads, or on Diana bathing,

    Nor on Faunus, as he lies in the fields at noon.

    Drive off disease: let men and beasts be healthy,

    And healthy the vigilant pack of wakeful dogs.

    May I drive back as many sheep as dawn revealed,

    Nor sigh returning with fleeces snatched from the wolves.

    Avert dire famine: let leaves and grass be abundant,

    And water to wash the body, water to drink.

    May I press full udders, may my cheeses bring me money,

    May the wicker sieve strain my liquid whey.

    And let the ram be lusty, his mate conceive and bear,

    And may there be many a lamb in my fold.

    And let the wool prove soft, not scratch the girls,

    Let it everywhere be kind to gentle hands.

    Let my prayer be granted, and every year we'll make

    Huge cakes for Pales, Mistress of the shepherds.'

    Please the goddess in this way: four times, facing east,

    Say these words, and wash your hands with fresh dew.

    Then set a wooden dish, to be your mixing bowl,

    And drink the creamy milk and the purple must:

    Then leap, with nimble feet and straining thighs

    Over the crackling heaps of burning straw.

    I've set forth the custom: I must still tell of its origin:

    But many explanations cause me doubt, and hold me back.

    Greedy fire devours all things, and melts away the dross

    From metals: the same method cleans shepherd and sheep?

    Or is it because all things are formed

    Of two opposing powers, fire and water,

    And our ancestors joined these elements, and thought fit

    To touch their bodies with fire and sprinkled water?

    Or did they think the two so powerful, because they contain

    The source of life: denied to the exile, it makes the new bride?

    I can scarce believe it, but some consider it refers

    To Phaethon, and to Deucalion's flood.

    Some say, too, that once when shepherds struck

    Stones together, a spark suddenly leapt out:

    The first died, but the second set fire to straw:

    Is that the basis for the fires of the Parilia?

    Or is the custom due rather to Aeneas' piety,

    To whom the fire gave safe passage, in defeat?

    Or is this nearer the truth, that when Rome was founded,

    They were commanded to move the Lares to their new homes,

    And changing homes the farmers set fire to the houses,

    And to the cottages, they were about to abandon,

    They and their cattle leaping through the flames,

    As happens even now on Rome's birthday?

    That subject itself is matter for a poet. We have come

    To the City's founding. Great Quirinus, witness your deeds!

    Amulius had already been punished, and all

    The shepherd folk were subject to the twins,

    Who agreed to gather the men together to build walls:

    The question was as to which of them should do it.

    Romulus said: `There's no need to fight about it:

    Great faith is placed in birds, let's judge by birds.'

    That seemed fine. One tried the rocks of the wooded Palatine,

    The other climbed at dawn to the Aventine's summit.

    Remus saw six birds, Romulus twelve in a row.

    They stuck to the pact, and Romulus was granted the City.

    A day was chosen for him to mark out the walls with a plough.

    The festival of Pales was near: the work was started then.

    They trenched to the solid rock, threw fruits of the harvest

    Into its depths, with soil from the ground nearby.

    The ditch was filled with earth, and topped by an altar,

    And a fire was duly kindled on the new-made hearth.

    Then, bearing down on the plough handle, he marked the walls:

    The yoke was borne by a white cow and a snowy ox.

    So spoke the king: `Be with me, as I found my City,

    Jupiter, Father Mavors, and Mother Vesta:

    And all you gods, whom piety summons, take note.

    Let my work be done beneath your auspices.

    May it last long, and rule a conquered world,

    All subject, from the rising to the setting day.'

    Jupiter added his omen to Romulus' prayer, with thunder

    On the left, and his lightning flashed leftward in the sky.

    Delighted by this, the citizens laid foundations,

    And the new walls were quickly raised.

    The work was overseen by Celer, whom Romulus named,

    Saying: `Celer, make it your care to see no one crosses

    Walls or trench that we've ploughed: kill whoever dares.'

    Remus, unknowingly, began to mock the low walls,

    saying: `Will the people be safe behind these?'

    He leapt them, there and then. Celer struck the rash man

    With his shovel: Remus sank, bloodied, to the stony ground.

    When the king heard, he smothered his rising tears,

    And kept the grief locked in his heart.

    He wouldn't weep in public, but set an example of fortitude,

    Saying: `So dies the enemy who shall cross my walls.'

    But he granted him funeral honours, and couldn't

    Hold back his tears, and the love he tried to hide was obvious.

    When they set down the bier, he gave it a last kiss,

    And said: `Farewell, my brother, taken against my will!'

    And he anointed the body for burning. Faustulus, and Acca

    Her hair loosened in mourning, did as he did.

    Then the as yet unnamed Quirites wept for the youth:

    And finally the pyre, wet by their tears, was lit.

    A City arose, destined (who'd have believed it then?)

    To plant its victorious foot upon all the lands.

    Rule all, and be ever subject to mighty Caesar,

    And may you often own to many of that name:

    And as long as you stand, sublime, in a conquered world,

    May all others fail to reach your shoulders.





    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:
    >
    > Quirites!
    >
    >
    >
    > By all means, let us be silent
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63753 From: Patrick D. Owen Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Concerning the Dies as defined by the Collegium Pontificum
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex s.p.d.

    I would like to answer some questions raised about the recent posts concerning the dies (Latin, days) and how they have been defined by the Collegium Pontificum in their Responsum Pontificum de Diebus. This is not meant to be considered as a decretum from the Collegium Pontificum but is meant to be my personal explanation & interpretaion of the Responsum Pontificum de Diebus.

    The principal point I would like to address is the restriction on the Praetores during the dies N, NP, EN, FP, QRCF, QSDF. On these days that are treated either wholly or partially as dies Nefasti, the Praetores cannot pass sentences because they cannot pronounce the words "do, dico, and addico*" so no one could be "sentenced" to moderation on these days. However, this also would mean that a Praetor cannot take anyone off moderation during these days because of the use of the same language.

    Essentially, all magistrates are limited in some ways by each of the dies.

    Thus it follows that the Praetor cannot place any citizen on moderation during certain days but he can perform other actions related to his office.

    *do dare dedi datum (1) [to offer, give, grant, bestow, lend; to hand over, commit, devote]; of letters, [to give for dispatch]; 'vela dare ventis', [to sail]; 'poenas', [to pay a penalty]; 'verba', [to give words only, i.e., to cheat]; of news, [to tell, communicate]. (2) [to cause, bring about, put].

    dico (2) dicere dixi dictum [to indicate; to appoint]; most commonly , [to say, speak, tell, mention]; in pass. with infin., [to be said to]; impersonally, dicitur, [it is said that];of ideas,[to express, put into words]; 'ius', [to administer law, give rulings]; of persons or things, [to mention, speak of, tell of, relate; to name, call; to mean, refer to]. N. of partic. as subst. dictum -i, [a word, saying, speech; a witty saying, a bon mot; a prediction; an order, command].

    addico -dicere -dixi -dictum [to assent to]; in augury , [to promise well] ; of a judge, (especially the praetor), [to award]; of an auctioneer, [to knock down] a lot; of an owner, [to put up for sale]. Hence, in general, [to give up or over, doom, dedicate, surrender]; particular addictus, [bound, pledged].
    ____________________________________________________


    COLLEGIUM PONTIFICUM
    Responsum Pontificum de Diebus
    According to the Mos Majorum and to the Jus Sacrum, the pontifices of Nova Roma interpret the meaning of the different fasti of the Roman calendar in the following way:

    Dies FASTI (F): These are dies profesti, normal working days in which the Gods favour human activities.
    Tribunals may be open and the praetores may fully perform their duties. Petitio actionis and other documents may be accepted.
    Marriages and private worship may be celebrated.
    Contiones may be called and celebrated. Citizens may express their will, but any vote conducted will not be binding for the magistrates.
    Markets may be open, business may be made, contracts may be signed. Private activities may take place normally.

    Dies COMITIALES (C): These are identical to dies fasti, but they are reserved for the celebration of public assemblies.
    If no magistrate calls any of the Comitia on a dies comitialis, it shall be treated as a dies fastus.
    If a magistrate calls the Comitia, then a vote may take place. The result of such a vote would be binding for the magistrates.

    Dies NEFASTI (N): They are dies profesti (working days) that present some restrictions due to their religious character.
    Tribunals may be open and petitiones actionis and other documents may be accepted. However, the praetores cannot pass a sentence (because they cannot say the words do, dico, addico).
    Public worship has preference over private worship. It is not recommended to celebrate marriages.
    Comitia should not be called. Contiones may be called to inform the People, but no voting should take place. The Senate may meet, but affairs concerning cultus and religio should be dealt with before any civil affair in the Senate agenda.
    Private activities are not favoured. It is not recommended to begin a journey or to sign contracts, or to generally start a new activity. Should an action have begun on a previous day, however, it might be carried on normally. Markets may be open.

    Dies ENDOTERCISI vel INTERCISI (EN): These are "cut asunder" days, that prepare the feria of the following day. They are dies profesti (working days) with certain restrictions. They are dies nefasti in the morning (horae I to IIII) before and during the celebration of the sacrifices; but they become dies fasti at noon (horae V to VIII) and nefasti again in the evening (horae VIIII to XII) during and after the offering in the altars of the sacrifices performed in the morning.

    Dies NEFASTI PVBLICI (NP): A dies nefastus publicus is a dies festus, a holiday for all citizens (not for slaves), because they are reserved for public worship and dedicated to a given god (feriae). All the NP days are feriae publicae pro populo, but not all dies feriati are NP. They have the same characteristics as a dies nefastus, but tribunals are closed (because magistrates have to attend public religious ceremonies). These include fixed holidays (feriae stativae), mobile holidays (feriae conceptivae) decreed by magistrates and irregular holidays (feriae imperativae) decreed by the Senate.

    Dies FASTI PVBLICI vel FASTI PVRI (FP): The meaning of this fastus is not yet completely clear. Further research is necessary, and the pontifices will one day issue a new responsum concerning this particular fastus. For the moment being, the pontifices recommend to treat these days as if they were NEFASTI PVBLICI.

    Quando Rex Comitiavit Fas (QRCF): These are fixed days (dies fissi) in the calendar, and they are also dies feriati (religious workship takes place) but dies profesti (working days). They are a dies nefastus from dawn till the Rex Sacrorum appears in the Comitium and performs the purifying rites. From then on it is a dies fastus and the Comitia may be adjourned.

    Quando Stercus Delatum Fas (QSTDF or QSDF): These are fixed days (dies fissi) in the calendar, and they are also dies feriati (religious workship takes place) but dies profesti (working days). They are a dies nefastus from dawn till the vestales finish cleaning the Temple and the House of Vesta and take the garbage out of the sacred grounds through the Porta Stercolaria. Garbage is then swept down the streets and thrown to the Tiber. From that moment onwards, it is a dies fastus.

    Dies ATRI: These are "dark" days in which fire should not be lit and sacrifices should not be offered in altars. Temples should not celebrate public worship. All religious ceremonies are private but without sacrifices. Making journeys, starting new projects, or doing anything risky should be avoided, and certain gods, including Juppiter and Janus, may not be named. They are always dies fastus (F) or dies comitialis (C), never dies nefastus (N) or dies nefastus publicus (NP). The dies atri include two special subcategories:

    Dies POSTRIDUANI: These are the days after all the Kalendae, Nonae and Idus of each month. They are, in general terms, dies fasti (F), but they are days of bad omens for beginning private activities, business or journeys. Public worship is explicitly forbidden.

    Dies VITIOSI: These are specific dates decreed by the Senate, considered unlucky days on which some disaster for Rome had occurred. The only two fixed dies vitiosi are the dies ALIENSIS, on July the 18th, commemorating the defeat on the Allia river and the sack of Rome by the Gauls, and August the 2nd, a. d. IV Nonae Sextiliae, which is the traditional anniversary of the Battle of Cannae. These days must be declared dies atri through a senatusconsultum.

    Dies RELIGIOSI: These are days dedicated to the worship of infernal deities and of the dead; worship to celestial deities should not take place, and temples of celestial deities should close their doors. All ceremonies are private and celebrated in domestic shrines by the pater familias. These are always a dies nefastus (N), never a dies fastus (F), dies comitiales (C) or dies nefastus publicus (NP).
    Special dates for marriages Marriages should not to be performed during the periods of 13-21 February, 1-20 March, throughout the month of May, or during 5-15 June, nor were they to be performed on days when the mundus was opened (24 August, 5 October, and 8 November) and should be discouraged on those dates that dies Postriduani, dies Vitiosi, or dies ater. These dates specifically refer to the rite of confarreatio as some are periods when the Flamen and Flaminca Dialis would not have been available to attend, as required, while others concern feriae for the Manes. Although not proscribed in regard to other forms of marriages, they were still considered ill-omened days on which to marry.

    22 Iunius 2759
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63754 From: Paolo Eutimo Cristiano Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: DIES NATALIS ROMA
    I WISH YOU HAPPY ROME BIRTHDAY....
    I AM PROUD TO BE YOUR FRIEND

    GOD VESTA BLESS YOU
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63755 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Salvete omnes,

    I am surrounded by a glorious spring day and what comes to mind is the poetry of a season that has inspired our ancestors in years past.
    So my offerings to the gods and goddesses bear the fruit of the work of those inclined to speak from their hearts, from their souls, their words echoing eternally.


    Gaius Petronius
    The following are from my 1932 edition of "The Complete Works of Petronius"because I could not find any later translations of the poems I am offering however I usually prefer translations from the 18th to early 19th century, particularly the socially rebellious;)


    XVI
    Outward looks are not enough,
    Beauty is no common stuff –
    Of merriment it is compact,
    Playful grace in every act,
    Witty laughter, laughing wit;
    These are things that go with it,
    These surpass the simple graces
    In beautiful and silly faces.
    Art is for beauty; and I say;
    Take the lovely fool away! –
    If she strips from foot to head
    And doesn't ask me into bed.


    XXIII
    In the soldier's helmet doves
    Have made a nest – see
    How Venus loveth Mars.


    From "Love at Croton"

    These flowersÂ… O such flowers were there
    As Earth, our Mother, poured
    In petalled sparks when she for love lay bare –
    Jove looked, and he adored,
    And all the flowers burned up through his blood,
    A gush of roses blew
    Violets dusked with flame to where he stood,
    And tender rushes too –
    O lily-laughter swaying in the grass
    Such beauty shaken and bright
    Laved our bodies with love and made joy pass
    Secretly smugged in light.



    Please feel free to share your favorite poetry as well,

    Vale
    Julia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63756 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63757 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2762th Parilia of Rome w
    Salvete Quirites!

    Today I have held the following small ceremony to celebrate Parilia.

    **********************

    Ave Palatua et Salvete Quirites!

    To honor the city of Rome and Palatua, the Protectress of Mons
    Palatinus this the 2762th Parilia of Rome, which is the 11th Parilia
    of Nova Roma, I will do this ceremony, as it might have been done in
    ancient Rome and as I do it regulary:

    "I give a grain of salt representing the beginning of the City by the
    Via Salaria.

    DOMINA, ANTIQVA, MATER VRBIS AETERNAE.
    Lady!, Ancient One!, Mother of the Eternal City!

    ADES! SALVE PALATVA
    Be Thou present! Hail, O Palatua!

    {supplicant performs the Adoratio, and continues:}

    TE {touching breast) PRECOR QVAESOQVE
    I pray and beseech Thee,

    VT DES PACEM PROPITIA VENIAMQVE
    that Thou mayest propitiously grant peace and favor

    VRBI ET ORBI;
    to the City and the World;

    VTI NVNQVAM DESOLES TVAM POPVLVM ROMANVM,
    that Thou mayest never abandon Thy Roman People,

    HIC ET NVNCT VBICVMQVE ET SEMPER.
    here and now, everywhere and always.

    ERGO TIBI OFFERO HOC THVS:
    Therefore, to Thee I offer this grain:

    {The supplicant now offers a few grains, then concludes with the
    words:}

    ITA EST! ILLICET.
    So mote it be! So may it be granted!"


    *****************
    Vale

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

    Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    Civis Romanus sum
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
    ************************************************
    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
    "I'll either find a way or make one"
    ************************************************
    Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
    Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
    ************************************************
    Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
    Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63758 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Returning...
    Salvete omnes!
     
    I'm pleased to announce that, after 94 days of forced inactivity caused by internet connection failure and E-mail reorganization, I'm coming back to my activity and to resume my duties as Scriba. May god bless you all!
     
    Vale,
     
    LVSITANVS.SPD.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63759 From: Christer Edling Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th Parilia of Ro
    Salve Colleague!

    It is pleasure to do it for Her and it is a pleasure that You find it
    good!

    ******************

    20 apr 2009 kl. 07.57 skrev Q. Valerius Poplicola:

    Thank you for this!

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Christer Edling" <christer.edling@...>
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:46 AM
    To: "Nova Roma - Main list" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Cc: "Nova Roma - Senatus" <SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com>; "Nova
    Roma
    Announce" <novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] A small ceremony for Palatua during the the 2761th
    Parilia of Rome which is the 10th Parilia of Nova Roma

    > Ave Palatua et Salvete Quirites!
    >
    > To honor the city of Rome and Palatua, the Protectress of Mons
    > Palatinus this the 2762th Parilia of Rome, which is the 11th Parilia
    > of Nova Roma, I will do this ceremony, as it might have been done in
    > ancient Rome and as I do it regulary:
    >
    > "I give a grain of salt representing the beginning of the City by the
    > Via Salaria.
    >
    > DOMINA, ANTIQVA, MATER VRBIS AETERNAE.
    > Lady!, Ancient One!, Mother of the Eternal City!
    >
    > ADES! SALVE PALATVA
    > Be Thou present! Hail, O Palatua!
    >
    > {supplicant performs the Adoratio, and continues:}
    >
    > TE {touching breast) PRECOR QVAESOQVE
    > I pray and beseech Thee,
    >
    > VT DES PACEM PROPITIA VENIAMQVE
    > that Thou mayest propitiously grant peace and favor
    >
    > VRBI ET ORBI;
    > to the City and the World;
    >
    > VTI NVNQVAM DESOLES TVAM POPVLVM ROMANVM,
    > that Thou mayest never abandon Thy Roman People,
    >
    > HIC ET NVNCT VBICVMQVE ET SEMPER.
    > here and now, everywhere and always.
    >
    > ERGO TIBI OFFERO HOC THVS:
    > Therefore, to Thee I offer this grain:
    >
    > {The supplicant now offers a few grains, then concludes with the
    > words:}
    >
    > ITA EST! ILLICET.
    > So mote it be! So may it be granted!"
    >
    >
    > *****************
    > Vale
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
    >
    > Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    >


    *****************
    Vale

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

    Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
    Civis Romanus sum
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
    ************************************************
    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
    "I'll either find a way or make one"
    ************************************************
    Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
    Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
    ************************************************
    Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
    Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63760 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Salve Julia;
    it is a magnificent day; the gods once more praised! here is my contribution especially for today:
    part of the Saecular Hymn by Horatius;

    Fates! whose unfailing word
    Spoken from lips Sibylline shall abide,
    Ordained, preserved and sanctified
    By Destiny's eternal law, accord
    To Rome new blessings that shall last
    In chain unbroken from the Past.
    Mother of fruits and flocks, prolific Earth!
    Bind wreaths of spiked corn round Ceres's hair:
    And may soft showers and Jove's benignant air
    Nurture each infant birth!

    Rome is reborn; with our cultores in the urbs celebrating and will all of us rejoicing making offerings to Iuppiter O.P. Iuno Minerva, the Capitoline triad and to our lares...
    who isn't happy on such a wonderful day
    May the gods be propitious to us may we all spend the next Parilia in Rome!
    Marca Hortensia Maior---



    In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete omnes,
    >
    > I am surrounded by a glorious spring day and what comes to mind is the poetry of a season that has inspired our ancestors in years past.
    > So my offerings to the gods and goddesses bear the fruit of the work of those inclined to speak from their hearts, from their souls, their words echoing eternally.
    >
    >
    > Gaius Petronius
    > The following are from my 1932 edition of "The Complete Works of Petronius"because I could not find any later translations of the poems I am offering however I usually prefer translations from the 18th to early 19th century, particularly the socially rebellious;)
    >
    >
    > XVI
    > Outward looks are not enough,
    > Beauty is no common stuff –
    > Of merriment it is compact,
    > Playful grace in every act,
    > Witty laughter, laughing wit;
    > These are things that go with it,
    > These surpass the simple graces
    > In beautiful and silly faces.
    > Art is for beauty; and I say;
    > Take the lovely fool away! –
    > If she strips from foot to head
    > And doesn't ask me into bed.
    >
    >
    > XXIII
    > In the soldier's helmet doves
    > Have made a nest – see
    > How Venus loveth Mars.
    >
    >
    > From "Love at Croton"
    >
    > These flowersÂ… O such flowers were there
    > As Earth, our Mother, poured
    > In petalled sparks when she for love lay bare –
    > Jove looked, and he adored,
    > And all the flowers burned up through his blood,
    > A gush of roses blew
    > Violets dusked with flame to where he stood,
    > And tender rushes too –
    > O lily-laughter swaying in the grass
    > Such beauty shaken and bright
    > Laved our bodies with love and made joy pass
    > Secretly smugged in light.
    >
    >
    >
    > Please feel free to share your favorite poetry as well,
    >
    > Vale
    > Julia
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63761 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
    Salvete omnes!

    For your enjoyment!

    This is giving me a valuable chance to practice Latin Pronunciation!

    Pars 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL6hk3x387Y&feature=related

    Pars 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PJEgmgNfMI&feature=related

    Pars 3:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Y9c2GD42k&feature=related

    Valete!

    Julia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63762 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    Higgledum-piggledum
    Remus and Romulus
    tried to agree on the
    city's locale;
    Romulus, angry his
    coluperlactilous
    twin had jumped over
    his nice brand-new wall!

    or

    Higgledum-piggledum
    Romulus rightfully
    claiming the vict'ry of
    numbers o'er time
    kills his twin Remus who
    superpomerically
    challenged his right
    to the City's design.

    Valete!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63763 From: Jennifer Harris Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Salve Julia,


    Works of Petronius, it's been a long time since I've read his work.
    Hard to find stuff nice touch :-)


    Vale,
    Aeternia

    On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 AM, L Julia Aquila
    <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Salvete omnes,
    >
    > I am surrounded by a glorious spring day and what comes to mind is the
    > poetry of a season that has inspired our ancestors in years past.
    > So my offerings to the gods and goddesses bear the fruit of the work of
    > those inclined to speak from their hearts, from their souls, their words
    > echoing eternally.
    >
    > Gaius Petronius
    > The following are from my 1932 edition of "The Complete Works of
    > Petronius"because I could not find any later translations of the poems I am
    > offering however I usually prefer translations from the 18th to early 19th
    > century, particularly the socially rebellious;)
    >
    > XVI
    > Outward looks are not enough,
    > Beauty is no common stuff –
    > Of merriment it is compact,
    > Playful grace in every act,
    > Witty laughter, laughing wit;
    > These are things that go with it,
    > These surpass the simple graces
    > In beautiful and silly faces.
    > Art is for beauty; and I say;
    > Take the lovely fool away! –
    > If she strips from foot to head
    > And doesn't ask me into bed.
    >
    > XXIII
    > In the soldier's helmet doves
    > Have made a nest – see
    > How Venus loveth Mars.
    >
    > From "Love at Croton"
    >
    > These flowers… O such flowers were there
    > As Earth, our Mother, poured
    > In petalled sparks when she for love lay bare –
    > Jove looked, and he adored,
    > And all the flowers burned up through his blood,
    > A gush of roses blew
    > Violets dusked with flame to where he stood,
    > And tender rushes too –
    > O lily-laughter swaying in the grass
    > Such beauty shaken and bright
    > Laved our bodies with love and made joy pass
    > Secretly smugged in light.
    >
    > Please feel free to share your favorite poetry as well,
    >
    > Vale
    > Julia
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63764 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
    Salvete;
    filia pulchra est;-)
    this is a lot of fun, watch and enjoy and you'll have some everyday expressions:
    quid facis? what are you doing
    te voco..... I'm calling you
    great post Julia Aquila gratias maximas
    Maior--



    - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete omnes!
    >
    > For your enjoyment!
    >
    > This is giving me a valuable chance to practice Latin Pronunciation!
    >
    > Pars 1:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL6hk3x387Y&feature=related
    >
    > Pars 2:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PJEgmgNfMI&feature=related
    >
    > Pars 3:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Y9c2GD42k&feature=related
    >
    > Valete!
    >
    > Julia
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63765 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Poetry for Dies Nefastus Publicus
    Julia omnibus sal

    MaiorÂ… more!!! And thank you!
    Aeternia, thank you also, maybe later I will type and post some more but I have spring fever bad today. Glad you like:)

    Here are a couple of selections from William Butler Yeats:

    "A Thought from Propertius"
    SHE might, so noble from head
    To great shapely knees
    The long flowing line,
    Have walked to the altar
    Through the holy images
    At pallas Athene's Side,
    Or been fit spoil for a centaur
    Drunk with the unmixed wine.


    "A Man Young And Old: III. The Mermaid"
    A mermaid found a swimming lad,
    Picked him for her own,
    Pressed her body to his body,
    Laughed; and plunging down
    Forgot in cruel happiness
    That even lovers drown.


    I wanted to post Rolfe Humphries' version of the first lines of De Rerum Natura but could not find it online so here is just an excerpt because I am not much of a typist:)

    An excerpt from Lucretius, De Rerum Nature
    Translated by Rolfe Humphries (1894-1969):

    Creatress, Mother of the Roman line,
    Dear Venus, joy of earth and joy of heaven,
    All things that live below that heraldry
    Of star and planet, whose processional
    Moves ever slow and solemn over ue,
    All things conceived, all things that face the light
    In their bright visit, the grain-bearing fields,
    The marinered oceans, where the wind and cloud
    Are quiet in your presence – al proclaim
    Your gift, without which they are nothingness.
    For you that sweet artificer, the earth,
    Submits her flowers, and for you the deep
    Of ocean smiles, and the calm heaven shines
    With shoreless light.

    Ah, goddess, when the spring
    Makes clear its daytime, and a warmer wind
    Stirs from the west, a procreative air,
    High in the sky the happy hearted birds,
    Responsive to your coming, call and cry,
    The cattle, tame no longer, swim across
    The rush of river torrents, or skip and bound
    In joyous meadows; where your brightness leads,
    They follow, gladly taken in the drive,
    The urge, of love to come. So, on you move
    Over the seas and mountains, over streams
    Whose ways are fierce, over the greening leas,
    Over the leafy tenements of birds,
    So moving that in all their ardor burns
    For generations and their kind's increase,
    Since you alone control the way things are.



    Oh Great Mother, accept my humble offering,
    Grant peace for our citizens, glorious Mother, peace!
    Ab imo pectore

    Vale
    Julia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63766 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Clarifying a few things
    Ave et salve Messalina;

    This "Man of the North" thanks you for your dedication.

    Be well, and may your apprentices see that the long term goal is WORTH
    a bit of short term discomfort.

    I support the efforts of those who are truly dedicated to only the
    Roman Holy ones.

    vale - Venator
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63767 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US
    Salve Aurelianus,
     
    and sorry, I must have overseen it. It is great news that you would be interested. It would be an honor to have you here.
    Is it possible to talk to you by phone?
     
    How one could perform such a ceremony, are there a few more citizens who would like and could attend and of course when ?
     
    You are more then wellcome to call me anytime maybe tomorrow? I am opening the castra on Friday and have a formal reception on Thursday I turn in circles meanwhile :-)
    Please feel free to call(best in the morning hours between 9 and 11AM) : 202-370-6924
     
    Hope to hear from you soon
     
    C.Aqvillivs Rota


    From: "PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@..." <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:13:11 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US

    I have replied to your request for a pontifex and asked for details about your event.  I have not received a response.

    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


    -----Original Message-----
    From: c.aqvillivs_ rota <c.aqvillivs_ rota@yahoo. com>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Sent: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 9:12 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL CITIZENS IN THE US



    Salvete omnes,
    Next week the first Roman Museum Bistro opens in America Austorientalis! It presents Ancient Roman history, NR and offers also authentic Roman High Cuisine prepared by an expert who cooks this way since over 15 years.
    Planned is a ceremony of the Religio Romana also representing NR and the Military.
    Maior has offerd help but does not respond to e-mail. 
    After some postings here nothing moves. What'up fellow Romans?
    So far there is only one loyal citizen who s interested in such an event.
    Does NR have serious priests and maybe Reenactors who would like to participate.
    PLEASE STEP FORWARD AN LET US BLOW SOME REAL LIFE INTO OUR REPUBLIC...
        HERE IN AMERICA..... OR ARE ONLY EUROPEANS CAPABLE TO DO SO? (YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB OVER THERE)
    Press coverage for NR is organized. Print, Radio, depending on your response TV possible.
    When I receive responses, a comfortable date and time for all, as well reasonable over night stays can be worked out!
    There is currently a huge interest of a REAL TOWN in SC to wellcome
    NR.
    Please pass this request on to others who are not on the mainlist since  I have problems to do so!
    COME ON CITIZENS SHOW THAT YOU ARE REAL !!!
    Valete
    A.R. Magister Artium
     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63768 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
    Salve

    How could it be called?
    Monobiga? Cyclobiga?
    Any neologism available?

    Vale
    M.Arminius

    --- Em ter, 21/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escreveu:
    Q. Poplicola sal.

    http://romanhistory books.typepad. com/roman_ history_books_ and_m/2009/ 04/romes- 2762nd-birthday- .html

    Valete!


    Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63769 From: Vedius Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Salvete omnes,

    Like you, I've been watching Nova Roma slowly disintegrate over the last
    few years.

    We are plagued by magistrates who don't give a damn about the
    constitution, cives who are left with nothing to do except run for
    meaningless offices, endless squabbling and abuses of power based on
    personalities and invented factions (exacerbated by the fact that we
    "enjoy" the anonymity of the Internet), or, worse, between those who
    have fundamental differences on the role of the religio in the Republic,
    and modern ways vs. reconstructionism.

    I've given the state of affairs a lot of thought, and I think I have a
    solution. It will take a lot of work, though, and a broad consensus to
    achieve. The rot might be too thorough to allow it. I just put it out as
    a last piaculum, to perhaps set the Res Publica back on a course of
    success, one last attempt to turn it from disaster.

    1) Mandatory local groups. All cives must be members of functioning
    oppidia or municipia. If no group exists locally, it is their
    responsibility to create and maintain one. All candidates for any office
    must have experience as a magistrate on the local level. Tighten up the
    Lex Fabia de oppidis et municipiis; put in a standard set of rules and
    local offices. Can't put an oppidium together? You don't get to be a
    cive. Period. Obviously the Gods are not favoring you at this time; that
    may change later on. Get rid of the provinces, too. We MUST remove Nova
    Roma from being an Internet-based organization.

    2) Mandatory taxes. Everyone who receives the benefits of Nova Roman
    citizenship must pay at least US$12 per year. Period. can't pay it? You
    don't get to be a cive. You can pay more? Outstanding! Century Points
    are abolished, replaced with a system that places cives in centuries
    based on how much they pay in a given year. You pay more, you're in a
    lower-numbered century. You pay the minimum? You're in with the
    hoi-polloi. We MUST get rid of the entitlement mentality for people not
    willing to make the least commitment to the organization.

    3) A re-emphasis on the Religio in the State. Magistracies and the
    Senate for practitioners of the Religio only. We don't have enough
    candidates? That's fine, once we are focused on local groups rather than
    national offices, we won't miss national magistrates. Also, re-establish
    the traditional limitations on magistracies; the same person cannot hold
    an office two years in a row, no more 22-year-old Consuls, etc. Make
    sure that the Collegium Pontificum and other priesthoods are filled with
    those who actually believe what we founded Nova Roma for in the first
    place; a reconstruction of the religio, not a modernized version of it.

    4) Separate the corporation from the State. It was necessary to combine
    the two during the Dictatorship to bring stability to the Res Publica.
    But now I believe the best course would be to separate them again with
    the corporation established simply to provide a buffer between the
    government of the Res Publica and the government of the United States.
    Put the hardest core of hard-liners on the Board, and give them the
    power to veto changes to the founding document. Let the Senate and
    magistrates run the Res Publica without fear of reprisal or coercion
    from the host governments in which we find ourselves.

    5) Speaking of which, change the constitution to an interpretatio mos
    maioria (perhaps the latin will need to be fixed). A lot of folks
    complain that Roma Antiqua had no written constitution. Fine and well;
    they're correct. But Rome, even just the Republic, evolved over
    centuries. We need to establish a baseline; how many tribunes of the
    plebs do we have, who can be a pontiff, etc. That still needs to be
    agreed to and written down. Make it basic, broad, and damn hard to change.

    6) Mandatory Latin. Use some of the money we collect to provide online
    (or in person!) latin instruction for the cives. We should be able to
    negotiate a good rate with Rosetta Stone or another outfit. Let's push
    for "latin as a living language" for real. Want to be a cive? Learn
    Latin, and USE it. We'll even teach you. Another blow to frivolous
    citizenship.

    There you go. I don't put this out to start a debate, or as a starting
    point for discussion, but as a call to arms. Do these things, and the
    Res Publica will prosper. Iuppiter Optimus Maximus gave his assurance of
    this as I consulted His will on these points, many times over, tonight
    as I composed this missive. Do these things, Quirites, lest our Res
    Publica wither to nothingness and the dream which is Rome fall to naught.

    Next year in the Forum!

    Vale,

    Flavius Vedius Germanicus
    Pater Patriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63770 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-21
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Q. Poplicola Fl. Germanico Patri Patriae omnibusque in hoc foro S. P. V. D.

    Salue! I really like your proposal, in fact many of us have been saying this
    for a while now, more intensively after certain farces. I do want to make a
    couple of suggestions, if I may be so permitted.

    I think the local groups should be *it*. We don't have land, we operate
    solely on the internet. This would also require us to disband the non-profit
    organization and turn ourselves into a religion, which is not only possible,
    but probably preferable. Or perhaps we can restructure the NPO to allow the
    local groups to send representatives and vote (face to face at regional
    counsels) for corporate. Each "oppida" (I prefer colonia, as a more
    historically accurate representation of what we'd be doing) would be run by
    two duoviri and have their own set of augures, pontifices, and sacerdotes
    varii. In addition, as several oppida/colonia grow close to each other, they
    in turn could form provincia on their own, and their own people could run
    for "governors".

    The details can be hashed out and argued, but the local way is the only way
    to go, and the internet activity almost entirely, except for as an internet
    community. No reason why we can't stay in touch with our friends across the
    country or in Europe. But the NPO itself should be broken up based on
    regions so that we can have more face to face.

    Mandatory taxes should be for the upkeep of one's colonia, and ultimately a
    temple. A temple-fund which is authorized only for temple building in local
    areas should be a top priority. In addition, century points can therefore be
    abolished. We need smart people, not rich or title-seeking people, to run a
    non-profit organizations.

    I'm also doubly in favor of using Latin and making the Religio mandatory,
    but the latter can only be done with we make ourselves a religion and not an
    NPO. And likewise, no offense meant to Cassius, but Roman reconstructionism
    is the only way to go for this endeavor. Unitarian Universalists can
    encompass any "modern pagan", and if it's the politics they're after, then
    we know they're not sincere about the religio in the first place.

    We sacerdotes and Classics students (or better yet, both!) should come
    together and establish a base Mos Maiorum. It's something I've been wanting,
    feel that we need, and discussed at some length on my blog devoted to
    refounding Rome. The mos is changeable, but certain things can easily be
    defined as Roman reconstructionist, general Hellenist, and non-antiquarian
    at all.

    Curate ut ualeatis atque Di nos incolumes custodiant.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63771 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Games in Honor of Rome's Birth
    Salve;
    ridens... I rather like: bicyclobiga;-)

    Marca Hortensia Maior

    > How could it be called?
    > Monobiga? Cyclobiga?
    > Any neologism available?
    >
    > Vale
    > M.Arminius
    >
    > --- Em ter, 21/4/09, Q. Valerius Poplicola <q.valerius.poplicola@...> escreveu:
    > Q. Poplicola sal.
    >
    > http://romanhistory books.typepad. com/roman_ history_books_ and_m/2009/ 04/romes- 2762nd-birthday- .html
    >
    > Valete!
    >
    >
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63772 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Call for candidates
    Salve
     
     
    If i am not mistaken, there is no candidate for the position of Aedilis Plebis.
    And if the call for candidates is still open, i offer my name to the Comitia Plebis.


    Vale
    Marcus Arminius Maior

    --- Em seg, 6/4/09, Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa <canadaoccidentalis@...> escreveu:

    Salvete

    This is a call for candidates for the vacant position of aedile of the plebs.

    Candidates for aedilis plebis must be citizens in good standing for at least six full months before taking office. They must be of the plebeian order, assidui, and at least 21 years of age by the date of taking office.
    I intend to hold the election from April 26 to April 30.
    You may declare your candidacy by posting to the mailing lists
    nova-roma@yahoogrou ps.com AND comitiaplebistribut a@yahoogroups. com

    Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
    Tribune of the Plebs
    Senator


    Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63773 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Ludi Megalenses - results
    Cn. Iulius Caesar aedilis curulis, omnibus Quiritibus sal.
     
     
    The results of the Ludi Megalenses are:
     
     
    1st place: Lucius Cornelius Cicero           45 points
     
    2nd place: Decimus Aemilius Severus      33 points
     
    3rd place: Gaius Equitius Cato                32 points
     
     
    I will be contacting the winners regarding their prizes.
     
     
    Optime valete
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63774 From: MCC Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
    ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA LECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA

    M.Cur. Complutensis Consul Senior omnes civibus Novae Romae S·P·D·


    This is the voting Schedule for the elections in the Comitia Populi Tributa

    Voting Schedule


    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European Time), on 26 Apr. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 3  May and will take place in the  Comitia Populi Tributa list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comitiapopulitributa/

    The Comitia Populi Tributa election will take place from: 17:00 hours (CET) on 3 May and will end at 17:00 hours (CET) on 12 May A.U.C. 2762.

     

    The offices, number of openings, and candidates are:

    Curule Aedile (1)


    Quaestor (1).

    Diribitor (2)

    Custos (1)

    Datum a.d. X Kal. Mai.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63775 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma - Aurelianus to Germanicus
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Fl. Vedio Germanico sal.

    I am going to respond to your six points although you may not enjoy it very much.

    If you want to comment on the disintegration of Nova Roma and the failure of the magistrates, then you should include a statement on the number of offices, sacred & temporal, that you have pursued the dropped; been elected to and did nothing with; or from which you resigned.  I can state this as fact since I was involved with at least two of those incidents--both in the Sacred Colleges.  

    Your first paragraph is full of the same kind of rabble rousing without citing specifics that I am used to seeing from individuals that prefer to inflame their readers and the membership rather than taking a calm and rational approach.  However, your suggestions are not without merit and I give you credit for making them.

    1. Mandatory local groups.  This would require a minimum membership for both groups under the existing laws.  There are only a handful of population centers in the world with enough local membership to qualify.  Of course, since there is no distance requirement, one could establish groups that might be several hours travelling which could make matters difficult especially since the members may no be interested in being magistrates and committing their time.  I support local groups but I cannot see how you can make them mandatory.  Please explain your solution to this problem.

    2. Mandatory taxes.  We are averaging 160 assidui worldwide for the last couple of years out of a potential membership base of about 1200.  Your proposal makes very little sense to me since it would be far more productive to drop the membership fee to $5.00 per year for U.S. citizens and a much lower fee for international members.  Nova Roma would need to make some changes in the membership privileges to include the ability to run for and hold office, an automatic mailing of The Aquila, and a membership card or certificate.  Your fee would result in an overall loss of citizens in exchange for maybe $1200.00 in revenues worldwide.  By reducing the membership fee and increasing the benefits, we could generate $3,000.00+ worldwide.  This is a suggestion that I have made for years.  

    3. I don't really have any problems with this point as long as individuals with a history of multiple resignations or total inactivity in office are not elected to essential offices until they can demonstrate their ability and staying power in lesser offices.  Yes, that is a dig directly at you, Germanicus, but I also have to confess that I resigned from an office that I was elected to on a write-in.

    4. Also a reasonable suggestion.  Perhaps Nova Roma should have been organized more like the Julian Society for the mundane administrative purposes while the Res Publica uses the historical model. 

    5.  A complete re-organization of Nova Roma is a very good idea.  We could wipe the slate clean by taking the current "in force" leges and Constitution and doing a complete re-write.  This would not be historical but it could save the organization.  Definitely get rid of the system of jurisprudence.

    6. Mandatory Latin.  That is going to be a tough one to work and could take years to be successful but it is an admirable idea and would allow all the members to communicate with one another despite national languages.  We would have to continue with the translators for several years but it would be a worthy goal.  I know that Tiberius Galerius Paulinus, Marca Hortensia Maior, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, and others have made the suggestion over the years.  I respect their opinion and I am glad to see you make the suggestion.  It is excellent.

    I could work toward these goals and believe that it would aid Nova Roma.  

     


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Vedius <vedius@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; BackAlley <backalley@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 9:48 pm
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma



    Salvete omnes,

    Like you, I've been watching Nova Roma slowly disintegrate over the last
    few years.

    We are plagued by magistrates who don't give a damn about the
    constitution, cives who are left with nothing to do except run for
    meaningless offices, endless squabbling and abuses of power based on
    personalities and invented factions (exacerbated by the fact that we
    "enjoy" the anonymity of the Internet), or, worse, between those who
    have fundamental differences on the role of the religio in the Republic,
    and modern ways vs. reconstructionism.

    I've given the state of affairs a lot of thought, and I think I have a
    solution. It will take a lot of work, though, and a broad consensus to
    achieve. The rot might be too thorough to allow it. I just put it out as
    a last piaculum, to perhaps set the Res Publica back on a course of
    success, one last attempt to turn it from disaster.

    1) Mandatory local groups. All cives must be members of functioning
    oppidia or municipia. If no group exists locally, it is their
    responsibility to create and maintain one. All candidates for any office
    must have experience as a magistrate on the local level. Tighten up the
    Lex Fabia de oppidis et municipiis; put in a standard set of rules and
    local offices. Can't put an oppidium together? You don't get to be a
    cive. Period. Obviously the Gods are not favoring you at this time; that
    may change later on. Get rid of the provinces, too. We MUST remove Nova
    Roma from being an Internet-based organization.

    2) Mandatory taxes. Everyone who receives the benefits of Nova Roman
    citizenship must pay at least US$12 per year. Period. can't pay it? You
    don't get to be a cive. You can pay more? Outstanding! Century Points
    are abolished, replaced with a system that places cives in centuries
    based on how much they pay in a given year. You pay more, you're in a
    lower-numbered century. You pay the minimum? You're in with the
    hoi-polloi. We MUST get rid of the entitlement mentality for people not
    willing to make the least commitment to the organization.

    3) A re-emphasis on the Religio in the State. Magistracies and the
    Senate for practitioners of the Religio only. We don't have enough
    candidates? That's fine, once we are focused on local groups rather than
    national offices, we won't miss national magistrates. Also, re-establish
    the traditional limitations on magistracies; the same person cannot hold
    an office two years in a row, no more 22-year-old Consuls, etc. Make
    sure that the Collegium Pontificum and other priesthoods are filled with
    those who actually believe what we founded Nova Roma for in the first
    place; a reconstruction of the religio, not a modernized version of it.

    4) Separate the corporation from the State. It was necessary to combine
    the two during the Dictatorship to bring stability to the Res Publica.
    But now I believe the best course would be to separate them again with
    the corporation established simply to provide a buffer between the
    government of the Res Publica and the government of the United States.
    Put the hardest core of hard-liners on the Board, and give them the
    power to veto changes to the founding document. Let the Senate and
    magistrates run the Res Publica without fear of reprisal or coercion
    from the host governments in which we find ourselves.

    5) Speaking of which, change the constitution to an interpretatio mos
    maioria (perhaps the latin will need to be fixed). A lot of folks
    complain that Roma Antiqua had no written constitution. Fine and well;
    they're correct. But Rome, even just the Republic, evolved over
    centuries. We need to establish a baseline; how many tribunes of the
    plebs do we have, who can be a pontiff, etc. That still needs to be
    agreed to and written down. Make it basic, broad, and damn hard to change.

    6) Mandatory Latin. Use some of the money we collect to provide online
    (or in person!) latin instruction for the cives. We should be able to
    negotiate a good rate with Rosetta Stone or another outfit. Let's push
    for "latin as a living language" for real. Want to be a cive? Learn
    Latin, and USE it. We'll even teach you. Another blow to frivolous
    citizenship.

    There you go. I don't put this out to start a debate, or as a starting
    point for discussion, but as a call to arms. Do these things, and the
    Res Publica will prosper. Iuppiter Optimus Maximus gave his assurance of
    this as I consulted His will on these points, many times over, tonight
    as I composed this missive. Do these things, Quirites, lest our Res
    Publica wither to nothingness and the dream which is Rome fall to naught.

    Next year in the Forum!

    Vale,

    Flavius Vedius Germanicus
    Pater Patriae
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63776 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA
    Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex Senatoribus s.p.d.
     
    As a Tribune of the Plebs and private citizen, I would like to voice my support for the following candidates running for election in the Comitia Populi Tributa between a.d. V Non. Mai and a.d. IV Id. Mai. 
     
    For Curule Aedile:  Lucius Coruncanius Cato
     
    For Quaestor:  Marcus Valerius Potitus
     
    For Diribitor: Vibia Rutilia Enodiara et M. Cornelius Gualteru s Graecus
     
    For Custos:  Gn. Cornelius Lentulus   

    May Dii Immortales grant to these candidates all that is beneficial, auspicious, and appropriate.

    Valete.




    M.Cur. Complutensis Consul Senior omnes civibus Novae Romae S·P·D·


    This is the voting Schedule for the elections in the Comitia Populi Tributa

    Voting Schedule


    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European Time), on 26 Apr. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 3  May and will take place in the  Comitia Populi Tributa list at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/comitiapop ulitributa/
    The Comitia Populi Tributa election will take place from: 17:00 hours (CET) on 3 May and will end at 17: 00 hours (CET) on 12 May A.U.C. 2762.
     

    The offices, number of openings, and candidates are:

    Curule Aedile (1)


    Quaestor (1).

    Diribitor (2)

    Custos (1)

    Datum a.d. X Kal. Mai.



    -----Original Message-----
    From: MCC <complutensis@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>; NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com <NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com>; Senatus <SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com>; NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com <NRmagistrates@yahoogroups.com>; c.curius@... <c.curius@...>
    Sent: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 8:56 am
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] ELECTIONS IN THE COMITIA POPULI TRIBUTA



    M.Cur. Complutensis Consul Senior omnes civibus Novae Romae S·P·D·


    This is the voting Schedule for the elections in the Comitia Populi Tributa

    Voting Schedule


    The Contio will begin at 07:00 hours, Roma time (Central European Time), on 26 Apr. and will last until 17.00 hours, Roma time, on 3  May and will take place in the  Comitia Populi Tributa list at http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/comitiapop ulitributa/
    The Comitia Populi Tributa election will take place from: 17:00 hours (CET) on 3 May and will end at 17:00 hours (CET) on 12 May A.U.C. 2762.
     

    The offices, number of openings, and candidates are:

    Curule Aedile (1)


    Quaestor (1).

    Diribitor (2)

    Custos (1)

    Datum a.d. X Kal. Mai.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63778 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Removal of Officers
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    As neither of the consuls nor the active praetor has even deigned to address the issue, let alone respond directly to a member's call, I will today begin proceedings with the State of Maine to force compliance with the law regarding the removal of officers.

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63779 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Withdrawal of Candidacy
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    I hereby withdraw my name from candidacy for the office of curule aedile.

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63780 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: a.d. X Kal. Mai.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem X Kalendas Maius; haec dies nefastus est.

    "To Autonoe and Aristaios was born a son Aktaion, who was reared by
    Kheiron and trained as a huntsman, but was later eaten up on Kithairon
    by his own dogs [because] ... he saw Artemis bathing. They say that
    the goddess changed him on the spot into a deer, and drove his fifty
    hunting dogs into a frenzy so that they unintentionally ate him. When
    he was no more, they looked for their master with great howls and
    bays." - Apollodorus, The Library 3.30

    "Across the Illisos [River] is a district called Agrai and a temple of
    Artemis Agrotera (the Huntress). They say that Artemis first hunted
    here when she came from Delos, and for this reason the statue carries
    a bow." -Pausanias 1.19.6

    "Near the statue of Olympiodoros stands a bronze image of Artemis
    surnamed Leukophryne, dedicated by the sons of Themistocles; for the
    Magnesians, whose city the King had given him to rule, hold Artemis
    Leukophryne in honor." -Pausanias 1.26.4

    "The whole country [of Elis] is full of temples of Artemis, Aphrodite,
    and the Nymphai, being situated in sacred precincts that are generally
    full of flowers because of the abundance of water." -Strabo 8.3.12

    "All cities worship Artemis Ephesia (of Ephesus), and individuals hold
    her in honor above all the gods. The reason, in my view, is the renown
    of the Amazones, who traditionally dedicated the image, also the
    extreme antiquity of this sanctuary. Three other points as well have
    contributed to her renown, the size of the temple, surpassing all
    buildings among men, the eminence of the city of the Ephesians and the
    renown of the goddess who dwells there." -Pausanias 4.31.7

    "Artemis, slayer of wild beasts, daughter of Zeus, for whom Agamemnon
    set up a temple when he was preparing to sail on his swift ships to
    Troy, give ear to my prayers and ward off the evil Keres (Death-
    Spirits). For you, goddess, this is no small thing, but for me it is
    critical." – Theognis 1.11

    "About a stade distant from Kaphye is a place called Kondylea, where
    there are a grove and a temple of Artemis called of old Kondyleatis.
    They say that the name of the goddess was changed for the following
    reason. Some children, the number of whom is not recorded, while
    playing about the sanctuary found a rope, and tying it round the neck
    of the image said that Artemis was being strangled. The Kaphyans,
    detecting what the children had done, stoned them to death. When they
    had done this, a malady befell their women, whose babies were
    stillborn, until the Pythian priestess bade them bury the children,
    and sacrifice to them every year as sacrifice is made to heroes,
    because they had been wrongly put to death. The Kaphyans still obey
    this oracle, and call the goddess at Kondyleai, as they say the oracle
    also bade them, Apankhomene (the Strangled Lady) from that day to
    this." -Pausanias 8.23.6


    Today is the Ephabolia, a celebration held in honor of Artemis.
    Artemis was the virgin goddess of the hunt, wild animals, wilderness,
    and childbirth. She was worshipped as a fertility/childbirth goddess
    in some places since, according to some myths, she assisted her mother
    in the delivery of her twin. During the Classical period in Athens,
    she was identified with Hecate. Artemis also assimilated Caryatis
    (Carya) and Ilithyia. Artemis was worshipped almost everywhere in
    Greece, but her most well known cults were in Brauron, Mounikhia
    (located on a hill near the port Piraeus), and Sparta.

    In Asia Minor, a goddess identified with Artemis was a principal
    deity. The city of Ephesus is probably the best known of the Asian
    centers of her worship, from the story in the Acts of the Apostles,
    where the Ephesian metalsmiths who feel threatened by Paul's preaching
    of the new faith, zealously riot in her defense, shouting "Great is
    Artemis of the Ephesians!" (Acts 19:28 KJV)

    Festivals in honor of Artemis include Elaphebolia, Mounikhia,
    Kharisteria, Brauronia, and the festival of Artemis Orthia in Sparta.

    Young Athenian girls between the ages of five and ten were sent to the
    sanctuary of Artemis at Brauron to serve the Goddess for one year.
    During this time the girls were known as arktoi, or little she-bears.
    A myth explaining this servitude relates that a bear had gotten into
    the habit of regularly visiting the town of Brauron, and the people
    there fed it, so that over time the bear became tame. A young girl
    teased the bear, and, in some versions of the myth it killed her,
    while in other versions it clawed her eyes out. Either way, the girl's
    brothers killed the bear, and Artemis was enraged. She demanded that
    young girls "act the bear" at her sanctuary in atonement for the
    bear's death.

    In many parts of ancient Greece, just before marriage young women
    would dedicate toys, dolls, and locks of their hair to Artemis.

    Artemis has her direct counterpart in the Roman Diana. Diana was the
    perpetually virginal huntress goddess, associated with wild animals
    and woodlands. She also later became a moon goddess, supplanting Luna,
    and was an emblem of chastity. Oak groves were especially sacred to
    Her. She was praised for her strength, athletic grace, beauty and
    hunting skill. She made up a trinity with two other Roman deities:
    Egeria the water nymph, Her servant and assistant midwife; and
    Virbius, the woodland god.

    Diana was worshipped in a temple on the Aventine Hill and at the city
    of Ephesus, where the Temple of Artemis stood. Being placed on the
    Aventine, and thus outside the pomerium, meant that Diana's cult
    essentially remained a "foreign" one, like that of Bacchus; She was
    never officially "transferred" to Rome as Iuno was after the sack of
    Veii. It seems that Her cult originated in Aricia, where Her priest,
    the Rex Nemorensis, remained. Diana was regarded with great reverence
    by lower-class citizens and slaves; slaves could receive asylum in Her
    temples. She was worshipped at a festival on August 13, when King
    Servius Tullius, himself born a slave, dedicated Her shrine on the
    Aventine.

    Diana is usually depicted with a deer. This is because She is the
    patroness of hunting, and also because She is said to have transformed
    a man She found spying on Her while taking a bath into a deer when he
    tried to flee Her.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63781 From: Lucius Cornelius Cicero Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Salvete omnes

    I wholeheartedly agree with and support the suggestions of pater patriae Flavius Vedicus Germanicus, as well as the further suggestions of Q Valerius Poplicola.

    It is time for NR to move into the real world and fulfil its mission.

    Valete,

    Lucius Cornelius Cicero

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Vedius <vedius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete omnes,
    >
    > Like you, I've been watching Nova Roma slowly disintegrate over the last
    > few years.
    >
    > We are plagued by magistrates who don't give a damn about the
    > constitution, cives who are left with nothing to do except run for
    > meaningless offices, endless squabbling and abuses of power based on
    > personalities and invented factions (exacerbated by the fact that we
    > "enjoy" the anonymity of the Internet), or, worse, between those who
    > have fundamental differences on the role of the religio in the Republic,
    > and modern ways vs. reconstructionism.
    >
    > I've given the state of affairs a lot of thought, and I think I have a
    > solution. It will take a lot of work, though, and a broad consensus to
    > achieve. The rot might be too thorough to allow it. I just put it out as
    > a last piaculum, to perhaps set the Res Publica back on a course of
    > success, one last attempt to turn it from disaster.
    >
    > 1) Mandatory local groups. All cives must be members of functioning
    > oppidia or municipia. If no group exists locally, it is their
    > responsibility to create and maintain one. All candidates for any office
    > must have experience as a magistrate on the local level. Tighten up the
    > Lex Fabia de oppidis et municipiis; put in a standard set of rules and
    > local offices. Can't put an oppidium together? You don't get to be a
    > cive. Period. Obviously the Gods are not favoring you at this time; that
    > may change later on. Get rid of the provinces, too. We MUST remove Nova
    > Roma from being an Internet-based organization.
    >
    > 2) Mandatory taxes. Everyone who receives the benefits of Nova Roman
    > citizenship must pay at least US$12 per year. Period. can't pay it? You
    > don't get to be a cive. You can pay more? Outstanding! Century Points
    > are abolished, replaced with a system that places cives in centuries
    > based on how much they pay in a given year. You pay more, you're in a
    > lower-numbered century. You pay the minimum? You're in with the
    > hoi-polloi. We MUST get rid of the entitlement mentality for people not
    > willing to make the least commitment to the organization.
    >
    > 3) A re-emphasis on the Religio in the State. Magistracies and the
    > Senate for practitioners of the Religio only. We don't have enough
    > candidates? That's fine, once we are focused on local groups rather than
    > national offices, we won't miss national magistrates. Also, re-establish
    > the traditional limitations on magistracies; the same person cannot hold
    > an office two years in a row, no more 22-year-old Consuls, etc. Make
    > sure that the Collegium Pontificum and other priesthoods are filled with
    > those who actually believe what we founded Nova Roma for in the first
    > place; a reconstruction of the religio, not a modernized version of it.
    >
    > 4) Separate the corporation from the State. It was necessary to combine
    > the two during the Dictatorship to bring stability to the Res Publica.
    > But now I believe the best course would be to separate them again with
    > the corporation established simply to provide a buffer between the
    > government of the Res Publica and the government of the United States.
    > Put the hardest core of hard-liners on the Board, and give them the
    > power to veto changes to the founding document. Let the Senate and
    > magistrates run the Res Publica without fear of reprisal or coercion
    > from the host governments in which we find ourselves.
    >
    > 5) Speaking of which, change the constitution to an interpretatio mos
    > maioria (perhaps the latin will need to be fixed). A lot of folks
    > complain that Roma Antiqua had no written constitution. Fine and well;
    > they're correct. But Rome, even just the Republic, evolved over
    > centuries. We need to establish a baseline; how many tribunes of the
    > plebs do we have, who can be a pontiff, etc. That still needs to be
    > agreed to and written down. Make it basic, broad, and damn hard to change.
    >
    > 6) Mandatory Latin. Use some of the money we collect to provide online
    > (or in person!) latin instruction for the cives. We should be able to
    > negotiate a good rate with Rosetta Stone or another outfit. Let's push
    > for "latin as a living language" for real. Want to be a cive? Learn
    > Latin, and USE it. We'll even teach you. Another blow to frivolous
    > citizenship.
    >
    > There you go. I don't put this out to start a debate, or as a starting
    > point for discussion, but as a call to arms. Do these things, and the
    > Res Publica will prosper. Iuppiter Optimus Maximus gave his assurance of
    > this as I consulted His will on these points, many times over, tonight
    > as I composed this missive. Do these things, Quirites, lest our Res
    > Publica wither to nothingness and the dream which is Rome fall to naught.
    >
    > Next year in the Forum!
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Flavius Vedius Germanicus
    > Pater Patriae
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63782 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Call for Papers (Addendum)
    Salvete!

    Just a reminder about the call for papers for my recon journal project. Topics can be on any aspect of ancient life that does or may impact reconstructionist efforts. The scope involves the entire ancient Mediterranean and lands that have fallen under the influence of cultures therefrom. See original post below for more details.

    Two people have already voiced interest in contributing papers, but more are needed! I am collecting both for the first issue and for the second (in case you would like to contribute something, but won't be able to finish writing it until much later in the year).

    Valete,

    Gualterus


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Oh, and in case anyone is wondering about contact information, just email me (waltms1 (at) yahoo (dot) com) if you are thinking about submitting something, whether already written or not. There's still a lot of time (months) left.
    >
    > Gualterus
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salvete!
    > >
    > > I'm now officially calling for article submissions for my recon journal project. The working title of the journal is "Journal of Ancient Mediterranean Reconstructionism". Topics can be on any aspect of ancient life that does or may impact reconstructionist efforts. The scope involves the entire ancient Mediterranean and lands that have fallen under the influence of cultures therefrom. This offers a fair amount of flexibility given the extent of the Hellenistic kingdoms and Roman Empire.
    > >
    > > Types of submissions:
    > >
    > > Regular article: 10+ pages (although, something around 20 pages or more is encouraged).
    > >
    > > Short article/note: 1-9 pages. Tackles some narrow issue and probably easier to write for those who aren't familiar with a sufficient amount of secondary literature for writing a regular article.
    > >
    > > review article: a well informed review of a book or long article.
    > >
    > > The topics can be historical, philological, anthropological or practical in orientation. Examples: A study of how Roman law developed into Ius Commune and what this might say about modern adaptations of Roman law (historical); a fresh translation and edition of a Latin, Greek, etc prayer accompanied by linguistic and historical commentary (philological); the psychology of religious reconstructionism, comparing and contrasting it with more eclectic efforts (anthropological); a new take on substitutions for ingredients in neo-Roman cuisine (practical).
    > >
    > > All articles must be scholarly in nature, taking into account the relevant primary and secondary literature on the subject. All sources must be properly cited. The style to be used is the Chicago Manual of Style (http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html).
    > >
    > > I'm also still looking to expand the group of referees. If you have a master's (MA/MPhil/qualifying Licentiate--if the L. was 5-6 years with a thesis, it counts) or PhD in Classics or a related field and would be willing to referee blinded copies of articles, please let me know!
    > >
    > > Any suggestions/comments on any of the above are welcome!
    > >
    > > Valete,
    > >
    > > M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63783 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
    Equestria Cato sal.

    I do not know what law regarding the "removal of officers" that you
    are referring to. The section 711 of the Maine Nonprofit Corporation
    Act only has:

    [Excerpt...
    1. Removal. Any officer elected or appointed as provided in the
    articles of incorporation or bylaws may be removed by the persons
    authorized to elect or appoint such officer whenever in their judgment
    the best interests of the corporation will be served thereby. The
    removal of an officer shall be without prejudice to the contract
    rights, if any, of the officer so removed.[1977, c. 525, § 13 (new).]
    2. Contract rights not created by appointment. Election or
    appointment of an officer or agent shall not of itself create contract
    rights.[1977, c. 525, § 13 (new).]
    3. Vacancy. Any vacancy, however occurring, in any office may be
    filled by the directors, unless the articles of incorporation shall
    have specifically reserved such power to the members.[
    ...End]

    Link: http://law.justia.com/maine/codes/title13-bch0sec0/title13-bsec711.html


    Therefore your statement "I will today begin proceedings with the
    State of Maine to force compliance with the law regarding the removal
    of officers" is ignorant at best.

    Vale

    Equestria



    On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
    > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete.
    >
    > As neither of the consuls nor the active praetor has even deigned to
    > address the issue, let alone respond directly to a member's call, I
    > will today begin proceedings with the State of Maine to force
    > compliance with the law regarding the removal of officers.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63784 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
    Catop Equestria sal.

    Salve!

    Then you don't understand the law very well. It's already in the process.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
    >
    > Equestria Cato sal.
    >
    > I do not know what law regarding the "removal of officers" that you
    > are referring to. The section 711 of the Maine Nonprofit Corporation
    > Act only has:
    >
    > [Excerpt...
    > 1. Removal. Any officer elected or appointed as provided in the
    > articles of incorporation or bylaws may be removed by the persons
    > authorized to elect or appoint such officer whenever in their judgment
    > the best interests of the corporation will be served thereby. The
    > removal of an officer shall be without prejudice to the contract
    > rights, if any, of the officer so removed.[1977, c. 525, § 13 (new).]
    > 2. Contract rights not created by appointment. Election or
    > appointment of an officer or agent shall not of itself create contract
    > rights.[1977, c. 525, § 13 (new).]
    > 3. Vacancy. Any vacancy, however occurring, in any office may be
    > filled by the directors, unless the articles of incorporation shall
    > have specifically reserved such power to the members.[
    > ...End]
    >
    > Link: http://law.justia.com/maine/codes/title13-bch0sec0/title13-bsec711.html
    >
    >
    > Therefore your statement "I will today begin proceedings with the
    > State of Maine to force compliance with the law regarding the removal
    > of officers" is ignorant at best.
    >
    > Vale
    >
    > Equestria
    >
    >
    >
    > On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
    > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    > >
    > > Salvete.
    > >
    > > As neither of the consuls nor the active praetor has even deigned to
    > > address the issue, let alone respond directly to a member's call, I
    > > will today begin proceedings with the State of Maine to force
    > > compliance with the law regarding the removal of officers.
    > >
    > > Valete,
    > >
    > > Cato
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63785 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Removal of Officers
    Equestria Cato sal.

    I included the law in my post. You cannot "begin proceedings" to
    "force compliance with the law regarding the removal of officers".
    Either you are not being truthful or you are confused.

    Which is it?

    Vale.



    On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:04 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
    > Catop Equestria sal.
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    > Then you don't understand the law very well. It's already in the
    > process.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > Equestria Cato sal.
    > >
    > > I do not know what law regarding the "removal of officers" that you
    > > are referring to. The section 711 of the Maine Nonprofit Corporation
    > > Act only has:
    > >
    > > [Excerpt...
    > > 1. Removal. Any officer elected or appointed as provided in the
    > > articles of incorporation or bylaws may be removed by the persons
    > > authorized to elect or appoint such officer whenever in their
    > judgment
    > > the best interests of the corporation will be served thereby. The
    > > removal of an officer shall be without prejudice to the contract
    > > rights, if any, of the officer so removed.[1977, c. 525, § 13
    > (new).]
    > > 2. Contract rights not created by appointment. Election or
    > > appointment of an officer or agent shall not of itself create
    > contract
    > > rights.[1977, c. 525, § 13 (new).]
    > > 3. Vacancy. Any vacancy, however occurring, in any office may be
    > > filled by the directors, unless the articles of incorporation shall
    > > have specifically reserved such power to the members.[
    > > ...End]
    > >
    > > Link: http://law.justia.com/maine/codes/title13-bch0sec0/title13-bsec711.html
    > >
    > >
    > > Therefore your statement "I will today begin proceedings with the
    > > State of Maine to force compliance with the law regarding the
    > removal
    > > of officers" is ignorant at best.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > >
    > > Equestria
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
    > > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    > > >
    > > > Salvete.
    > > >
    > > > As neither of the consuls nor the active praetor has even
    > deigned to
    > > > address the issue, let alone respond directly to a member's
    > call, I
    > > > will today begin proceedings with the State of Maine to force
    > > > compliance with the law regarding the removal of officers.
    > > >
    > > > Valete,
    > > >
    > > > Cato
    > > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63786 From: M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
    CALL FOR CANDIDATES CALL FOR CANDIDATES I hereby call for candidates to stand for election to the ordinary magistracies of the Comitia Centuriata.

    Anyone wishing to serve in any of these positions must have been a citizen for at least six months by Kal. Apr. MMDCCLXII (May 1st, 2009) and be an assiduus (tax-paying) citizen. I will convene the comitia for the elections at the end of April, but candidates are welcome to announce themselves and begin campaigning if they wish.

    All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand for office directly by sending a message to M.Curiatius.Complutensis at NovaRoma dot org in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the word "candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me your full Nova Roman name. Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be accepted. You must write to me directly.

    Candidacies will be accepted until 12 May 2009 (07.00 hrs CET Rome). The contio is tentatively scheduled to begin on 12 May, with the elections to follow tentatively beginning on 20 May.

    On behalf of the Res Publica Libera Senatus Populique Novae Romae I, Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Senior Consul, hereby issue this call for candidates for the following offices:

    I CENSOR SUFFECTUS: Must be at least 27 years old as of Kal. Mai. 2762 (May 1st, 2009),  must already have served at least six months as a consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius, editor commentariorum, rogator, or provincial governor and must be assiduus.


    Datum sub manu mea ante diem X Kal.  Mai  M. Curiatio  M. Iulio consulibus, in anno AUC MMDCCLXII.

    M. Curiatius Complutensis
    M. Iulius Severus

    Consules

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63787 From: Colin Cunningham Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Salvete Omnes!

    I fully support most of the proposals by Germanicus.  We have done too much on the internet, and not enough in the real world.  While I do not think Oppidi need to be mandatory, maybe a small tax incentive for those who found one and keep it going for a year?  Either that or have a higher tax for an At-Large member than for a member of an oppidum. OR even a combination of the two.  I am currently trying to get my friends to join Nova Roma, and one is currently going through the process.  Be proud to be a Roman!  I personally think that we need to go to a hybrid situation with century points, and NEVER want Taxes to be required.  If they don't pay, just put them in Capite Censi.  That is how I convinced one of my friends to join, was because of that.  For the foundation of local groups, that is important.  Let them pay when they are willing to step up. If each local group wants to decide how long a member can come without pying taxes, that is between them, but always leave the National group open.  The rest of your proposals I agree with without change.  Have members provide a copy of what they say in both English and Latin.  Even if it is BAD Latin, the effort is what would count.  Hell, even a machine translation that sucks would be better than nothing.  Then they could go over it with one of the resident experts and learn from it.  Also, I bet Rosetta Stone would work with us if we started talking to them.  Just a few points.

    Valete,

    C Fulvius Severus

    On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Lucius Cornelius Cicero <Cicero@...> wrote:


    Salvete omnes

    I wholeheartedly agree with and support the suggestions of pater patriae Flavius Vedicus Germanicus, as well as the further suggestions of Q Valerius Poplicola.

    It is time for NR to move into the real world and fulfil its mission.

    Valete,

    Lucius Cornelius Cicero



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Vedius <vedius@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete omnes,
    >
    > Like you, I've been watching Nova Roma slowly disintegrate over the last
    > few years.
    >
    > We are plagued by magistrates who don't give a damn about the
    > constitution, cives who are left with nothing to do except run for
    > meaningless offices, endless squabbling and abuses of power based on
    > personalities and invented factions (exacerbated by the fact that we
    > "enjoy" the anonymity of the Internet), or, worse, between those who
    > have fundamental differences on the role of the religio in the Republic,
    > and modern ways vs. reconstructionism.
    >
    > I've given the state of affairs a lot of thought, and I think I have a
    > solution. It will take a lot of work, though, and a broad consensus to
    > achieve. The rot might be too thorough to allow it. I just put it out as
    > a last piaculum, to perhaps set the Res Publica back on a course of
    > success, one last attempt to turn it from disaster.
    >
    > 1) Mandatory local groups. All cives must be members of functioning
    > oppidia or municipia. If no group exists locally, it is their
    > responsibility to create and maintain one. All candidates for any office
    > must have experience as a magistrate on the local level. Tighten up the
    > Lex Fabia de oppidis et municipiis; put in a standard set of rules and
    > local offices. Can't put an oppidium together? You don't get to be a
    > cive. Period. Obviously the Gods are not favoring you at this time; that
    > may change later on. Get rid of the provinces, too. We MUST remove Nova
    > Roma from being an Internet-based organization.
    >
    > 2) Mandatory taxes. Everyone who receives the benefits of Nova Roman
    > citizenship must pay at least US$12 per year. Period. can't pay it? You
    > don't get to be a cive. You can pay more? Outstanding! Century Points
    > are abolished, replaced with a system that places cives in centuries
    > based on how much they pay in a given year. You pay more, you're in a
    > lower-numbered century. You pay the minimum? You're in with the
    > hoi-polloi. We MUST get rid of the entitlement mentality for people not
    > willing to make the least commitment to the organization.
    >
    > 3) A re-emphasis on the Religio in the State. Magistracies and the
    > Senate for practitioners of the Religio only. We don't have enough
    > candidates? That's fine, once we are focused on local groups rather than
    > national offices, we won't miss national magistrates. Also, re-establish
    > the traditional limitations on magistracies; the same person cannot hold
    > an office two years in a row, no more 22-year-old Consuls, etc. Make
    > sure that the Collegium Pontificum and other priesthoods are filled with
    > those who actually believe what we founded Nova Roma for in the first
    > place; a reconstruction of the religio, not a modernized version of it.
    >
    > 4) Separate the corporation from the State. It was necessary to combine
    > the two during the Dictatorship to bring stability to the Res Publica.
    > But now I believe the best course would be to separate them again with
    > the corporation established simply to provide a buffer between the
    > government of the Res Publica and the government of the United States.
    > Put the hardest core of hard-liners on the Board, and give them the
    > power to veto changes to the founding document. Let the Senate and
    > magistrates run the Res Publica without fear of reprisal or coercion
    > from the host governments in which we find ourselves.
    >
    > 5) Speaking of which, change the constitution to an interpretatio mos
    > maioria (perhaps the latin will need to be fixed). A lot of folks
    > complain that Roma Antiqua had no written constitution. Fine and well;
    > they're correct. But Rome, even just the Republic, evolved over
    > centuries. We need to establish a baseline; how many tribunes of the
    > plebs do we have, who can be a pontiff, etc. That still needs to be
    > agreed to and written down. Make it basic, broad, and damn hard to change.
    >
    > 6) Mandatory Latin. Use some of the money we collect to provide online
    > (or in person!) latin instruction for the cives. We should be able to
    > negotiate a good rate with Rosetta Stone or another outfit. Let's push
    > for "latin as a living language" for real. Want to be a cive? Learn
    > Latin, and USE it. We'll even teach you. Another blow to frivolous
    > citizenship.
    >
    > There you go. I don't put this out to start a debate, or as a starting
    > point for discussion, but as a call to arms. Do these things, and the
    > Res Publica will prosper. Iuppiter Optimus Maximus gave his assurance of
    > this as I consulted His will on these points, many times over, tonight
    > as I composed this missive. Do these things, Quirites, lest our Res
    > Publica wither to nothingness and the dream which is Rome fall to naught.
    >
    > Next year in the Forum!
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Flavius Vedius Germanicus
    > Pater Patriae
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63788 From: vallenporter Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: censor
    Salve
    do we not have to vote for a new censor?
    Vale Marcus Cornelius Felix
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63789 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Lacernula Rubra: Enjoyable theater in Latin
    Salve Iulia,
    the video is really a little masterpiece, with a wonderful selection of basic vocabulary and of known Latin phrases, understandable by all and amusing, but be careful when imitating their pronounciation.
    There are no big problems with the pronounciation in itself, but they only get the accents right in maybe 15% of the cases.

    Vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salvete omnes!
    >
    > For your enjoyment!
    >
    > This is giving me a valuable chance to practice Latin Pronunciation!
    >
    > Pars 1:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL6hk3x387Y&feature=related
    >
    > Pars 2:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PJEgmgNfMI&feature=related
    >
    > Pars 3:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Y9c2GD42k&feature=related
    >
    > Valete!
    >
    > Julia
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63790 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salve!

    I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?

    Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!

    Vale!

    Ser. Avidius Secundus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63791 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    valeas
    M. Hortensia Maior

    >
    >
    > Salve!
    >
    > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    >
    > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    >
    > Vale!
    >
    > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63792 From: David Kling Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salvete:

    I'm interested in philosophy as well.  I'm currently reading Vol III (having recently read Vol I and II) of Michel Foucault's History of Sexuality.  Vol II deals with Ancient Greece and Vol III deals with the Roman Imperial period.  Very interesting stuff, and I'd love an opportunity to discuss it with folks -- currently taking a course in it.

    Valete;

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:


    M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    valeas
    M. Hortensia Maior


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63793 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salvete:
    that would be very interesting to me, I'd enjoy such a discussion.
    Thanks to a recommendation from Priscus, a civis and professonal psychologist from Lusitania I read
    "Roman Homosexuality: ideologies of masculinity in classical antiquity" Craig A. Williams, Oxford University Press, 1999
    It was fascinating as it was really about how we conceive of sexuality. A terrific book.
    valeas
    Marca Hortensia Maior

    >
    > Salvete:
    >
    > I'm interested in philosophy as well. I'm currently reading Vol III (having
    > recently read Vol I and II) of Michel Foucault's History of Sexuality. Vol
    > II deals with Ancient Greece and Vol III deals with the Roman Imperial
    > period. Very interesting stuff, and I'd love an opportunity to discuss it
    > with folks -- currently taking a course in it.
    >
    > Valete;
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
    >
    > On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but
    > > it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I
    > > tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius
    > > Regulus for making it so complete!
    > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    > > valeas
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63794 From: Vaughn Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Salve,
    I must first ask forgivness for not posting in awile but the inner conflict within Nova Roma has kept me at bay. However seeing at least some of our members trying to hold together and create ideas to fix problems gives me hope. I love most of your ideas however there are a few things we must condider:
    1. The idea that all cives MUST learn Latin is inpracticle. Don't get me wrong I love the Latin language but I myself am learning three other languages and a fourth does tend to cause headaches. I am sure I'm not the only person doing this. A second problem with doing this is no countries that I am aware of currently force their citizens to learn a langugage, it seems unfair that we would inflict that upon others.
    2. If we look at some older posts I was one of the people who was for the giving solid ground to Nova Roma, however thinking on it there are ALOT of things that could go wrong with that.
    3. Madatory taxes run by each province is not a good thing. Having one or two people run the entire groups money makes it easier to keep track of.
    4. Finally, I am a devout follower of the Religio however I don't think we should remove anyone who doesn't follow it. I have made a few Christian friends and I would be very saddened to see them go.
    Thank you for posting your ideas though.
    DI VOS INCOLUMES CUSTODIANT.
    GJN
    GAIVS IVNIVS NERO



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola" <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
    >
    > Q. Poplicola Fl. Germanico Patri Patriae omnibusque in hoc foro S. P. V. D.
    >
    > Salue! I really like your proposal, in fact many of us have been saying this
    > for a while now, more intensively after certain farces. I do want to make a
    > couple of suggestions, if I may be so permitted.
    >
    > I think the local groups should be *it*. We don't have land, we operate
    > solely on the internet. This would also require us to disband the non-profit
    > organization and turn ourselves into a religion, which is not only possible,
    > but probably preferable. Or perhaps we can restructure the NPO to allow the
    > local groups to send representatives and vote (face to face at regional
    > counsels) for corporate. Each "oppida" (I prefer colonia, as a more
    > historically accurate representation of what we'd be doing) would be run by
    > two duoviri and have their own set of augures, pontifices, and sacerdotes
    > varii. In addition, as several oppida/colonia grow close to each other, they
    > in turn could form provincia on their own, and their own people could run
    > for "governors".
    >
    > The details can be hashed out and argued, but the local way is the only way
    > to go, and the internet activity almost entirely, except for as an internet
    > community. No reason why we can't stay in touch with our friends across the
    > country or in Europe. But the NPO itself should be broken up based on
    > regions so that we can have more face to face.
    >
    > Mandatory taxes should be for the upkeep of one's colonia, and ultimately a
    > temple. A temple-fund which is authorized only for temple building in local
    > areas should be a top priority. In addition, century points can therefore be
    > abolished. We need smart people, not rich or title-seeking people, to run a
    > non-profit organizations.
    >
    > I'm also doubly in favor of using Latin and making the Religio mandatory,
    > but the latter can only be done with we make ourselves a religion and not an
    > NPO. And likewise, no offense meant to Cassius, but Roman reconstructionism
    > is the only way to go for this endeavor. Unitarian Universalists can
    > encompass any "modern pagan", and if it's the politics they're after, then
    > we know they're not sincere about the religio in the first place.
    >
    > We sacerdotes and Classics students (or better yet, both!) should come
    > together and establish a base Mos Maiorum. It's something I've been wanting,
    > feel that we need, and discussed at some length on my blog devoted to
    > refounding Rome. The mos is changeable, but certain things can easily be
    > defined as Roman reconstructionist, general Hellenist, and non-antiquarian
    > at all.
    >
    > Curate ut ualeatis atque Di nos incolumes custodiant.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63795 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma
    Poplicola Neroni sal.

    Salue, Nero.

    "A second problem with doing this is no countries that I am aware of
    currently force their citizens to learn a langugage, it seems unfair that we
    would inflict that upon others."

    Most religious traditions require the understanding of the traditional
    language in their magisterial and sacerdotal positions. It's actually heresy
    for Muslims to *not* learn the Quran in Arabic, and a Catholic priest
    without Latin is actually just a Protestant pastor. But even they try to
    learn Greek and Hebrew, and most that I've talked to all seem to understand
    the Bible, or at least have an understanding of the language in the Bible.
    Why not the same here?

    Also, no one is saying to kick out the non-cultores. Only limit. And again,
    this wouldn't apply to Nova Roma, Inc. or any non-profit organization at
    all, since it would be illegal in America. Now, if it were incorporated
    elsewhere, then maybe you'll hear that argument made with force, but not now
    under present circumstances.

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "Vaughn" <rikudemyx@...>
    Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:24 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Six Ideas for fixing Nova Roma

    > Salve,
    > I must first ask forgivness for not posting in awile but the inner
    > conflict within Nova Roma has kept me at bay. However seeing at least some
    > of our members trying to hold together and create ideas to fix problems
    > gives me hope. I love most of your ideas however there are a few things we
    > must condider:
    > 1. The idea that all cives MUST learn Latin is inpracticle. Don't get me
    > wrong I love the Latin language but I myself am learning three other
    > languages and a fourth does tend to cause headaches. I am sure I'm not the
    > only person doing this. A second problem with doing this is no countries
    > that I am aware of currently force their citizens to learn a langugage, it
    > seems unfair that we would inflict that upon others.
    > 2. If we look at some older posts I was one of the people who was for the
    > giving solid ground to Nova Roma, however thinking on it there are ALOT of
    > things that could go wrong with that.
    > 3. Madatory taxes run by each province is not a good thing. Having one or
    > two people run the entire groups money makes it easier to keep track of.
    > 4. Finally, I am a devout follower of the Religio however I don't think we
    > should remove anyone who doesn't follow it. I have made a few Christian
    > friends and I would be very saddened to see them go.
    > Thank you for posting your ideas though.
    > DI VOS INCOLUMES CUSTODIANT.
    > GJN
    > GAIVS IVNIVS NERO
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Q. Valerius Poplicola"
    > <q.valerius.poplicola@...> wrote:
    >>
    >> Q. Poplicola Fl. Germanico Patri Patriae omnibusque in hoc foro S. P. V.
    >> D.
    >>
    >> Salue! I really like your proposal, in fact many of us have been saying
    >> this
    >> for a while now, more intensively after certain farces. I do want to make
    >> a
    >> couple of suggestions, if I may be so permitted.
    >>
    >> I think the local groups should be *it*. We don't have land, we operate
    >> solely on the internet. This would also require us to disband the
    >> non-profit
    >> organization and turn ourselves into a religion, which is not only
    >> possible,
    >> but probably preferable. Or perhaps we can restructure the NPO to allow
    >> the
    >> local groups to send representatives and vote (face to face at regional
    >> counsels) for corporate. Each "oppida" (I prefer colonia, as a more
    >> historically accurate representation of what we'd be doing) would be run
    >> by
    >> two duoviri and have their own set of augures, pontifices, and sacerdotes
    >> varii. In addition, as several oppida/colonia grow close to each other,
    >> they
    >> in turn could form provincia on their own, and their own people could run
    >> for "governors".
    >>
    >> The details can be hashed out and argued, but the local way is the only
    >> way
    >> to go, and the internet activity almost entirely, except for as an
    >> internet
    >> community. No reason why we can't stay in touch with our friends across
    >> the
    >> country or in Europe. But the NPO itself should be broken up based on
    >> regions so that we can have more face to face.
    >>
    >> Mandatory taxes should be for the upkeep of one's colonia, and ultimately
    >> a
    >> temple. A temple-fund which is authorized only for temple building in
    >> local
    >> areas should be a top priority. In addition, century points can therefore
    >> be
    >> abolished. We need smart people, not rich or title-seeking people, to run
    >> a
    >> non-profit organizations.
    >>
    >> I'm also doubly in favor of using Latin and making the Religio mandatory,
    >> but the latter can only be done with we make ourselves a religion and not
    >> an
    >> NPO. And likewise, no offense meant to Cassius, but Roman
    >> reconstructionism
    >> is the only way to go for this endeavor. Unitarian Universalists can
    >> encompass any "modern pagan", and if it's the politics they're after,
    >> then
    >> we know they're not sincere about the religio in the first place.
    >>
    >> We sacerdotes and Classics students (or better yet, both!) should come
    >> together and establish a base Mos Maiorum. It's something I've been
    >> wanting,
    >> feel that we need, and discussed at some length on my blog devoted to
    >> refounding Rome. The mos is changeable, but certain things can easily be
    >> defined as Roman reconstructionist, general Hellenist, and
    >> non-antiquarian
    >> at all.
    >>
    >> Curate ut ualeatis atque Di nos incolumes custodiant.
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63796 From: Cn. Ambrosia Crinita Date: 2009-04-22
    Subject: ML vs BA, some thoughts.
    It strikes me that there is one fundamental difference in the ML and the BA that makes all the difference and from which some of the "us vs. them" attitudes may flow.

    I can sum it up in one word... Comitas.

    "Humor", meaning ease of manner, common courtesy, openness, and friendliness toward others is the personal virtue that makes up the chasm that yawns between the ML and the BA (with Hilaritas it's public virtue counterpart) in my opinion.

    The BAP (so-called "Back Alley Party") is just plain more enjoyable to be around. It's much easier to learn when one is not being berated. Thanks to them for keeping me interested and giving NR a chance to prove it's not all staid classicists and chest-beating pretenders. Heck, I've even gone and paid my taxes.

    If anyone has further questions about my impressions, I'm more than glad to discuss them.

    Valete,
    Crinita
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63797 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    I hereby announce my candidacy for Censor Suffectus.

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63798 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: a.d. IX Kal. Mai.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem IX Kalendas Maius; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

    "Vinalia priora, quae ante hos dies sunt VIIII kal. Mai. degustandis
    vinis instituta, nihil ad fructus attinent, nec quae adhuc diximus ad
    vites oleasque, quoniam earum conceptus exortu vergiliarum incipit a.
    d. VI id. Mai., ut docuimus. aliud hoc quadriduum est, quo neque rore
    sordidas velim — exurit enim frigidum sidus arcturi postridie occidens
    — et multo minus plenilunium incidere." -Pliny, "Natural History",
    viii.69

    "I've spoken of Pales' festival, I'll speak of the Vinalia:
    There's only a single day between the two.
    You prostitutes, celebrate the divine power of Venus:
    Venus suits those who earn by your profession.
    Offer incense and pray for beauty and men's favour,
    Pray to be charming, and blessed with witty words,
    Give the Mistress myrtle, and the mint she loves,
    And sheaves of rushes, wound in clustered roses.
    Now's the time to crowd her temple near the Colline Gate,
    One that takes its name from a Sicilian hill:
    When Claudius took Arethusian Syracuse by force,
    And captured that hill of Eryx, too, in the war,
    Venus moved to Rome, according to the long-lived Sibyl's
    Prophecy, preferring to be worshipped in her children's City.
    Why then, you ask, is the Vinalia Venus' festival?
    And why does this day belong to Jupiter?
    There was a war to decide whether Turnus or Aeneas
    Should be Latin Amata's son-in-law: Turnus begged help
    From Etruscan Mezentius, a famous and proud fighter,
    Mighty on horseback and mightier still on foot:
    Turnus and the Rutuli tried to win him to their side.
    The Tuscan leader replied to their suit:
    `My courage costs me not a little: witness my wounds,
    And my weapons that have often been dyed with blood.
    If you seek my help you must divide with me
    The next wine from your vats, no great prize.
    No delay is needed: yours is to give, mine to conquer.
    How Aeneas will wish you'd refused me!'
    The Rutulians agreed. Mezentius donned his armour,
    And so did Aeneas, and addressed Jove:
    `The enemy's pledged his vine-crop to the Tyrrhenian king:
    Jupiter, you shall have the wine from the Latin vines!'
    The nobler prayer succeeded: huge Mezentius died,
    And struck the ground, heart filled with indignation.
    Autumn came, dyed with the trodden grapes:
    The wine, justly owed to Jupiter, was paid.
    So the day is called the Vinalia: Jupiter claims it,
    And loves to be present at his feast." - Ovid, Fasti IV

    There are two Vinaliae, the vinalia rustica and the vinalia urbana;
    the vinalia urbana were celebrated on the 23rd of April. On this
    occasion the wine casks which had been filled the preceding autumn
    were opened for the first time, and the wine tasted. But before men
    actually tasted the new wine, a libation was offered to Iuppiter,
    which was called calpar.

    Also on this day we honor Venus Erycina ("Venus from Eryx"), also
    called Venus Erucina, whose worship originated on Mount Eryx in
    western Sicily. Temples were erected to her on the Capitoline Hill and
    outside the Porta Collina on this day in 215 BC, after the Roman
    defeat at the Battle of Lake Trasimene.

    The vinalia urbana was the Roman answer to a Greek festival called the
    "Pithoigia", the "Opening of the Jars"; oigia means opening and pithos
    is a very large ceramic-jars that was used for the storage of corn and
    wine. They were filled with the juice of the grapes in the beginning
    of October, then fermented heavily, then slowly and then in the end of
    February it became wine, unfermented and ready to drink.

    All the day of the Pithoigia wine had been transported from all of
    Attica to the sanctuaries in the swamps. As the sun began to set, huge
    crowds gathered in front of the temple which was opened when the sun
    set and twelfth day of Anthesterion began. At the same time the
    barrels where the wines were stored were opened and the wine was mixed
    with water. The god was greeted by spilling a bit of ones wine at the
    ground and then by drinking the rest.

    At Pithoigia, there was light drinking. It was only the beginning of
    the feast. The Dionysus-priestess, who had opened the temple, prayed
    that the wine would bring happiness and health for everyone and that
    the god would prevent its damaging causes. The rest of the evening
    there was song and dance in the honor of the god.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63799 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Lingua Latina
    Lingua Latina A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

        Lately the subject of Latin has come up in this Forum, as it does occasionally.  I have already mentioned the Latin classes created by A. Gratius Avitus (who is a world-class Latinist well known for his fluency in written and spoken Latin) and myself, but permit to to elaborate.  We have been, and will continue, teaching Latin by two different methods, a traditional one in English (possibly eventually partly in Spanish) and another, taught in both English and Spanish,  geared toward producing spoken and written fluency in modern as well as classical Latin.  Unlike many modern methods, which abandon grammar, both of these methods present the grammatical underpinnings of the Latin language, but do so in a rather different fashion.  Both produce the desired result in those who apply themselves, and both are infinitely superior to self-study or likely even to the use of some commercial means such as those to which allusion was recently made.  Those who wish to learn Latin in a friendly atmosphere taught by a non-staid, good-humored classicist (as the Grammatica students at least will attest) should obtain the Wheelock text for the former and the Desessard Assimil text for the latter and take the courses in question when they resume.   

        Who should take Latin?  Well, I might like to say everyone in NR, but reality is that many here are gifted in fields such as mathematics, but not in languages; it is unrealistic to expect everyone to learn Latin, much less to expect that they should be able to reach such a high level of proficiency that they can not only read Latin reasonably well with the aid of reference works, but also write it...and more difficult still, speak it.  Now, I am a moderately fluent Latin speaker, and Avitus is an extremely fluent one;  there are others among us who write Latin very well, and some who also speak it, but that requires a native ability and several years of study.  It is not something to be accomplished by waving a magic wand...unless, or course, one is studying at Hogwarts, and even there the students had to exert themselves considerably to master the material.  

        On the other hand, I do think that anyone who is a member of what I shall refer to as the clergy of the Religio Romana should know Latin, just as members of another Latin-oriented clergy used to know Latin, and perhaps still do.  I also think that cultores and cultrices of the Roman deities should learn to address those they worship in Latin.  For the latter, there is no need to compose or speak in Latin, merely to be able to pronounce it correctly, but the former should at least be able to write correct Latin.  

        There is another category whose members should also have at least a marginal facility in Latin, and that is the censores and the censorial scribae as well as the rogatores and rogatrices.  The great majority of work in the censors’ office is routine and bureaucratic, dealing with new citizen applications and the citizenship test as well as any intervening communications.  There is nothing glamorous about the Ivory-Soap percentage (99.44%) of censorial work; it is simply involved in contacting prospective and probationary citizens.  I have been participating in this for at least three or four years now, and can guarantee you that you may get a stack of applications on an office apex, but the shiny and/or pointy hats some seek are not to be found there.  The censores must make the final decisions on the correctness of Roman names, for while many applicants now use the well-researched lists of Roman names onsite, many others want a Latinized cognomen, or an unlisted toponym or occupational one, and some want to Latinize their entire name (not allowed, nor should this be; we are Romans, and should have Roman names).  The censores must be familiar with the rules of Roman nomenclature as well as those used in NR, and must have some acquaintance with Latin so that they can spot obvious errors if nothing else.  I would recommend that all NR magistrates and apparitores know at least some Latin, but for the censors’ office, it and/or a deep knowledge of nomenclature is essential.  

    Valete.  



        
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63800 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Points to ponder
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Points to ponder

      
    A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
      

    Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

    Salve!

    Cute!  Sounds a little like one of those "send this to 25 of your very best friends by 9am and you'll get a surprise but if you don't send it your pet will probably die!" kind of emails.

        ATS: Actually, it’s nothing of the kind, but came along with several amusing images sent by a relative.  The party in the tutu (or whatever; a colleague’s ballerina daughter might dispute my identification) was still in this set; I had no idea that Yahoo would bring him to life.  Maybe they have some in with Hogwarts, where what we would regard as still pictures instead move.  

    Scholastica, I *was* very angry when my posts started getting deleted and I was put on moderation.  

        ATS:  Don’t look at me.  A very recent bit of information on calendar matters seems to have been responsible.  I also don’t think deletion is the best course.  Ira furor brevis est; animum rege, dixit Horatius in libro Wheelock.  

    What I do with every second of my life is my own business, but thanks for the heads up.

        ?

    The only thing that disturbs me is that some people believe it's perfectly acceptable to do whatever they want regardless of what the law says.

        ATS:  Oh Cato, sometimes laws are interpreted in very different ways...as you know very well.  That is why they have law schools, and probably law courses, on that sort of thing.  However, I don’t think that that is what has been going on.  Whatever your gripe, and that of others, screaming about it is not the best way to go about rectifying the situation.  There must be a way to set out the concerns about the MMP without raising the volume to ear-splitting pitch, and ditto whatever your other issues are.  Putting people on moderation to facilitate good order is precisely what moderators are supposed to do, and there are other elements of their duties which they should perform, whether or not these are popular.  Hotheads who cannot control themselves may not like that, but such bimi simply should grow up.  When people start screaming, ranting and raving like a bunch of children, they can expect that adult supervision will be imposed.  Self-control is a characteristic of adults; when it is lacking, the men in the white coats or the guys with the handcuffs appear, or some other external control gets applied.  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the families of murder and assault victims will testify.  

    Breaking the rules is a delightful idea until you're sitting in front of a judge who is asking for the defense to make its case.

        ATS:  True, but sometimes this is a matter of interpretation.  For example, your views on license of speech are not shared by all; freedom/liberty is not the same as license, and these must be carefully distinguished.  Moreover, opinions based on half-truths, misrepresentations, misinformation, disinformation, incomplete information, etc., as has been the case of late just don’t wash as well as those formed more carefully, and should not be given the same credence.  I have seen far too much of that sort of thing being passed around as gospel truth of late to suit me.  You used to favor logic and calm reasoning, and a return to that on the part of everyone concerned might well be welcome.



    Vale!

    Cato

      Vale, et valete.
        

         
       Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/63677
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63801 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salve,

    I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...

    Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.

    Valeas,

    Ser. Avidius Secundus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    > valeas
    > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salve!
    > >
    > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > >
    > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > >
    > > Vale!
    > >
    > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63802 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: our CFO and Nova Roma's upstanding status
    Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Cornelio Felix et Omnibusque sal.

    In your post (dated April 18, 2009 attached below), you have written
    that you contacted me regarding filing in Oregon and then added in a
    sentence from my first email reply to you.

    Just to ensure that there are no misconceptions among our citizens,
    that response to you was prior to the time that I had determined you
    had not yet received any authorization from the senate to do
    fundraising on Nova Roma's behalf.

    Since you had told me that you've been working on this for several
    years, I gave you the initial benefit of the doubt that you had taken
    all other steps required to do this. And was therefore operating
    under the assumption that you were asking about the state filing only.

    I did call your attorney general and explained everything to you in
    detail. Including the fact that until you received the proper
    authorizations within Nova Roma, it was not required that we file with
    your state.

    Considering all the misinformation on this list recently regarding
    whether or not we should be filing for soliciting charitable
    donations, I think you can understand why I feel that your email to
    the main list needed a bit of clarification to avoid any more confusion.

    Vale.



    On Apr 18, 2009, at 2:28 PM, vallenporter wrote:
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    > >
    > > M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd
    > > I've spoken with our Cheif Financial Officer Equestria Laeca, who
    > > is a professional financial analyst and accountant.
    > >
    > > She told me that last year 2008, to get Nova Roma's affairs in
    > order she
    > > spoke with all the necessary state and federal agencies that
    > govern non-profits to ensure that
    > > EVERY single filing of Nova Roma was proper, what liablitity there
    > might be from from previous years and also
    > > to determine what we need to file in the future when we grow.
    > >
    > > Equestria devoted hours of her free time to ensure Nova Roma's
    > > upstanding status as a non-profit. Feel free to ask her if this is
    > so. I certainly did.
    >
    > I did starting about mar 22 this year when i was trying to get the
    > paperwork out of NR that would let me , or have NR file with my
    > state so i could ask people for money for NR.
    > when i showed her the law cites title and sec of the ORS she said to
    > me in a e-mail dated 24 March 2009 00:33
    >
    > "Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Cornelio Felix sal.
    >
    > I will contact your Attorney General tomorrow and report back to
    > you. It is likely that we will need to comply."
    >
    > this was in reply to a email i sent her ,that in part i said "
    > Salve Equestria Iunia Laeca
    >
    > I wish to talk about asking for donations at some meeting I am going
    > to have in my city.From people not in NR.
    > the State of oregon ( where I live) like most states has a law on
    > the books that says.
    > before I can do this , NR needs to file with the Charitable
    > Activities Section of the state DOJ,
    >
    > cite of law is ORS 128.610 through 128.750
    >
    > and Oregon Administrative Rules Section 137, Division 10 -137-10-043
    > through 137-10-055 .
    >
    > can you help with this as I want to run a both at three summer fiars
    > in portland, in the past when i would bring this up TPTB in NR would
    > judt say that "no we do not have to file in each statr as we are
    > with the IRS as a 501(C{3}) etc.. thats just says people can take a
    > donation off the taxes, not if you can ask in the satate fro money
    > from people.
    >
    > My e-mail is at
    >
    > magewuffa(at )gmail(dot)com
    >
    > Vale Marcus Cornelius Felix
    > Sacerdos Templi Mercurius"
    >
    > NOTE the ORS 128.610 through 128.750
    >
    > and Oregon Administrative Rules Section 137, Division 10 -137-10-043
    > through 137-10-055 .
    >
    > thats the law thats says we must file with the state of oregon
    > before I can go to say pagan fair and ask for money for NR.
    >
    > I have been trying to get this thru the TPTB in NR each year for the
    > last 8.
    >
    > then there the state of maine
    > Note that in the state of Maine we are under the Charitable
    > Solicitations Act (Title 9, Chapter 385: CHARITABLE SOLICITATIONS ACT.
    > 9 §5001.)and should look to file there and any state we are asking or
    > going to be asking for money from people not in NovaRoma.
    >
    > this was before the MMP fight started up.
    > MCF
    >
    > >
    > > She told me Gn. Iulius Caesar, Sulla, nor Cato never contacted her.
    > >
    > >
    > > So Quirites, this 'uproar' is manufactured, Nova Roma is totally
    > compliant with all state and federal laws that govern non-profits.
    > >
    > > I am sorry such aggravation was caused when a simple letter to
    > Equestria would have answered all questions.
    > >
    > > I am thankful that last years consuls M. Moravius Piscinus and
    > Iulius Sabinus, secured such an excellent ethical person Equestria
    > Laeca to protect Nova Roma and the monies of its citizens.
    > > bene valete in pacem deorum
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63803 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salve,

    We already have one;)
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaPhilosophy/?yguid=350269822
    It is waiting for activity!

    Vale
    Julia

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "S.T.V. P." <stas.pytlik@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...
    >
    > Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.
    >
    > Valeas,
    >
    > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
    > >
    > > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    > > valeas
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Salve!
    > > >
    > > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > > >
    > > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > > >
    > > > Vale!
    > > >
    > > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63804 From: S.T.V. P. Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salve!

    That's wonderful. I've signed up for it. Why is there no advertising on the Nova Roma site for it? We should put links somewhere to drive knowledge of the group!

    Vale,

    Ser. Avidius Secundus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > We already have one;)
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaPhilosophy/?yguid=350269822
    > It is waiting for activity!
    >
    > Vale
    > Julia
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "S.T.V. P." <stas.pytlik@> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > >
    > > I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...
    > >
    > > Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.
    > >
    > > Valeas,
    > >
    > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > > > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > > > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Reading_list_for_philosophy
    > > > valeas
    > > > M. Hortensia Maior
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve!
    > > > >
    > > > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > > > >
    > > > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > > > >
    > > > > Vale!
    > > > >
    > > > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63805 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    Salve,
    There is already a sodalitas and Nova Roma Philosophy list. I am currently posting historical outlines of Italian and Roman philosophy to it (which Senator Marcus Audens is having me convert into articles). There are currently posts, short quotes with discussion, from Cato the Elder and Marcus Aurelius. The Nova Roma Greek sodalitas also has some philosophy discussion on it occasionally. About two years ago, I was working on an online philosophy course for Academia Thules but since their computer system is down that has been on hold.
    Vale,
    A. Sempronius Regulus

    --- On Thu, 4/23/09, S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...> wrote:

    From: S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 7:49 AM



    Salve,

    I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...

    Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.

    Valeas,

    Ser. Avidius Secundus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Maior" <rory12001@. ..> wrote:
    >
    > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Reading_ list_for_ philosophy
    > valeas
    > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salve!
    > >
    > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > >
    > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > >
    > > Vale!
    > >
    > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > >
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63806 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    One reason is perhaps the moderator, Senator Marcus Audens, can't get his NR WIKI account fixed after repeated attempts. I suppose anyone could add the link, come to think of it.

    --- On Thu, 4/23/09, S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...> wrote:

    From: S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 2:17 PM


    Salve!

    That's wonderful. I've signed up for it. Why is there no advertising on the Nova Roma site for it? We should put links somewhere to drive knowledge of the group!

    Vale,

    Ser. Avidius Secundus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > We already have one;)
    > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/NovaRomaPh ilosophy/ ?yguid=350269822
    > It is waiting for activity!
    >
    > Vale
    > Julia
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "S.T.V. P." <stas.pytlik@ > wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > >
    > > I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...
    > >
    > > Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.
    > >
    > > Valeas,
    > >
    > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > > > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > > > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Reading_ list_for_ philosophy
    > > > valeas
    > > > M. Hortensia Maior
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve!
    > > > >
    > > > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > > > >
    > > > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > > > >
    > > > > Vale!
    > > > >
    > > > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63807 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Praetores omnibus s.d.

    You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_de_sermone_draft corr..doc)

    the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.

    This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.


    Valete omnes,


    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor, for the joint praetura


    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Tribunis s.d.

    As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.

    Its aims are:
    - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).

    Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.

    Valete,


    P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    for the praetura
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63808 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    Memmius Albucius, I am not sure how to say this without offending you and Equitius Marinus, but there really isn't one, so here goes.

    FIVE PAGES of printed edict?

    Articles 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10 either in whole or in part violate the Constitution. The entire text is excruciatingly, unnecessarily convoluted.

    The problem is that you have attempted to shroud everything in so much of what you consider legal-sounding language that you have turned out an almost entirely unintelligible piece of work.

    If you need help making something short, effective, and in sensible English, I am absolutely willing to assist you, you only need to ask. But this is a parody of useful legislation.


    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63809 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Salve,

    With all due respect, a five page edict on moderation is not one "which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception". It reminds me of NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) which really has nothing to do with free trade. An explosion of legalism in NR only makes life more miserable for everyone, and in this case, it especially would be detrimental to growth since new members would have to deal with this ridiculously long document. I think if a moderation policy can't be articulated in half a page then one has gone off-track.

    Vale,

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
    >
    > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_de_sermone_draft corr..doc)
    >
    > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    >
    > Valete omnes,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius
    > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > Its aims are:
    > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    > for the praetura
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63810 From: chrisdemarco13 Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Salve Omnes
    Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.

    Valete,
    T. Marcius Saturninus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63811 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
    Salve,

    Congratulations! Welcome!

    Vale,

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "chrisdemarco13" <chrisdemarco13@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.
    >
    > Valete,
    > T. Marcius Saturninus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63812 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-23
    Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
    C. Equitius Cato T. Marcio Saturnino sal.

    Salve!

    And congratulations. Welcome to the res publica. There's almost never a dull moment :)

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "chrisdemarco13" <chrisdemarco13@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.
    >
    > Valete,
    > T. Marcius Saturninus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63813 From: Maior Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    M. Hortensia A. Sempronio spd:
    marvellous, I resubscribed to the List.

    Semproni, Agricola told me that on Google searches for 'Roman Philosophy' an old NR link uesed to comes up 3rd now it's 6th I was wondering if you would enter your articles in the NRWiki under "Roman Philosophy". What a benefit that would be.
    valeas
    Maior


    >
    > Salve,
    > There is already a sodalitas and Nova Roma Philosophy list. I am currently posting historical outlines of Italian and Roman philosophy to it (which Senator Marcus Audens is having me convert into articles). There are currently posts, short quotes with discussion, from Cato the Elder and Marcus Aurelius. The Nova Roma Greek sodalitas also has some philosophy discussion on it occasionally. About two years ago, I was working on an online philosophy course for Academia Thules but since their computer system is down that has been on hold.
    > Vale,
    > A. Sempronius Regulus
    >
    > --- On Thu, 4/23/09, S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > From: S.T.V. P. <stas.pytlik@...>
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Philosophical Discussion Forum
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 7:49 AM
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > I've seen the reading list (and it's great!), but am thinking of creating a Sodalitas or something similar to have good and directed discussions about philosophy. I just don't want to step on anyone's feet if they have begun something...
    >
    > Personally, I am a staunch Neo-Platonist, but have a soft spot for Epictetus.
    >
    > Valeas,
    >
    > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Maior" <rory12001@ ..> wrote:
    > >
    > > M. Hortensia Ser. Avidius spd;
    > > A. Sempronius Regulus knows the list and is a professor of philosophy, but it is perfectly fine to discuss philosophy on the Main List. I'd enjoy it.. I tend toward epicureanism myself and you?
    > > Here is a terrific reading list for philosophy with thanks to Sempronius Regulus for making it so complete!
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Reading_ list_for_ philosophy
    > > valeas
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Salve!
    > > >
    > > > I am wondering if there exists a discussion group/forum specifically for philosophical inquiry?
    > > >
    > > > Please let me know if your interested or what groups there are. I would really like to see a Philosophical Academy started within Nova Roma, but want to understand what work has all been done already!
    > > >
    > > > Vale!
    > > >
    > > > Ser. Avidius Secundus
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63814 From: Robert Levee Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
    Salve,

    Congradulations T.Marcius Saturnius on your newly gained citizenship.
    Hope you will be around for decades to come.Enjoy the jouney and the pride of Roman citizenship.

    Vale bene,
    Ap.Galerius Aurelianus
    Tribune of the Plebs

    --- On Thu, 4/23/09, chrisdemarco13 <chrisdemarco13@...> wrote:

    > From: chrisdemarco13 <chrisdemarco13@...>
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Salve Omnes
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 3:17 PM
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test
    > into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.
    >
    >
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > T. Marcius Saturninus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63815 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Salve Albuci,

    My friend, I have to agree with Cato. This is a list of poorly phrased vagaries that does absolutely nothing to help those remaining who still post on the ML understand what they can and cannot do here.

    Since the general consensus among Nova Romans of all political stripes seems to be that our "legal system" is stifling, crippling Nova Roma and has to go, the references to the Lex Salicia should be removed. The praetores have been accused of being heavy handed this year in their moderation, this legalese edict will not help that perception.

    Article 3 has to go. It does nothing to help develop an international community as it limits discussion to a narrow set of topics. If people stray onto other issues, as normal people will in the course of a discussion, they'll be jumped on being "off-topic." When Astur and I were praetor (a time when the ML thrived by comparison because of light moderation) no topic was off topic, because in the forum, nothing--or very little anyway--should be.

    The tribunes will be compelled to veto this edict because of Article 9 alone because the section on "non-official cults" violates the Constitution regarding religious freedom, not to mention good manners.

    Article 2 appears to be entirely directed at Marcus Cassius, the list owner, and thus is crass and ungrateful because he has been nothing but gracious in allowing the use of this list. Trying to dictate to him (for some reason known but to the Gods) that he gives up his macronational rights as list owner just because you issue an edict is specious at best, not to mention wishful thinking. One of the first rules of lawmaking is don't issue an edict you can't enforce.

    Am I misreading the intention? I am basing the above statement on the following vague, run-on sentence, which admittedly is hard to fathom:

    "Being a member of Nova Roma and therefore accepting its rules, especially to obey the internal rules defined by NR Inc. and among them its legal system setting the resolution of the possible differences in the frame of Nova Roma before any claim towards the national courts,
    the individual who has created or is currently the main moderator of the ML in the frame of the hosting electronic provider rules (Yahoo! or any other corporation or company), thus accepts that all her/his moderation powers on the ML are placed into the control of, and delegated to, the legally elected praetors in charge."

    Do not issue this edict, my friend. The ML operates under too much moderation, you should be stepping back from causing more damage, not randomly tossing cinder blocks without watching where they're going.

    Vale bene,

    Palladius



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
    >
    > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_de_sermone_draft corr..doc)
    >
    > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    >
    > Valete omnes,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius
    > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > Its aims are:
    > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    > for the praetura
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63816 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Salve,

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
    ...
    > Article 2 appears to be entirely directed at Marcus Cassius, the list owner, and thus is crass and ungrateful because he has been nothing but gracious in allowing the use of this list. Trying to dictate to him (for some reason known but to the Gods) that he gives up his macronational rights as list owner just because you issue an edict is specious at best, not to mention wishful thinking. One of the first rules of lawmaking is don't issue an edict you can't enforce.


    Hmmm, when I skimmed the text I didn't even notice this little nuance. I think you're right that this is a jab at Cassius. In this light, the text doesn't merely appear as legalese gone wild, but as an attempt to usurp more power. The Praetors are ever more creating a notorious legacy for themselves, and this is only April--I wonder if they want to get elected ever again because at this rate they won't be.

    Vale,

    Gualterus
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63817 From: Titus Flavius Aquila Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: AW: [Nova-Roma] Salve Omnes
    Salve Saturninus,
     
    welcome to our Republic of Nova Roma !
     
    You are joining in very interesting and challenging times.
     
    Optime vale
    Titus Flavius Aquila


    Von: chrisdemarco13 <chrisdemarco13@...>
    An: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Gesendet: Donnerstag, den 23. April 2009, 21:17:00 Uhr
    Betreff: [Nova-Roma] Salve Omnes

    Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.

    Valete,
    T. Marcius Saturninus


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63818 From: Q. Valerius Poplicola Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Never underestimate the power of uncontested elections.

    --------------------------------------------------
    From: "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...>
    Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 12:44 AM
    To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone

    > Salve,
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
    > ...
    >> Article 2 appears to be entirely directed at Marcus Cassius, the list
    >> owner, and thus is crass and ungrateful because he has been nothing but
    >> gracious in allowing the use of this list. Trying to dictate to him (for
    >> some reason known but to the Gods) that he gives up his macronational
    >> rights as list owner just because you issue an edict is specious at best,
    >> not to mention wishful thinking. One of the first rules of lawmaking is
    >> don't issue an edict you can't enforce.
    >
    >
    > Hmmm, when I skimmed the text I didn't even notice this little nuance. I
    > think you're right that this is a jab at Cassius. In this light, the text
    > doesn't merely appear as legalese gone wild, but as an attempt to usurp
    > more power. The Praetors are ever more creating a notorious legacy for
    > themselves, and this is only April--I wonder if they want to get elected
    > ever again because at this rate they won't be.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Gualterus
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63819 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Cn. Iulius Caesar SPD.
     
    I suggest the following as an alternative edict for the Praetors in respect of the Main List. It is much more manageable to read and would cure a lot of the issues over use of this increasingly moribund list.
     
    -----------------------------------
     
    1. The Praetors and their staff shall moderate the Main List (Nova_Roma@yahoogroups.com) with an attitude reflective of political, religious and social neutrality, tolerance, humanity, common sense and good humor.
     
    2. The Praetors and their staff shall always endeavor to behave in a manner that is reflective of the fact that Nova Roma is a voluntary organization, and that all subscribers to the Main List shall be treated by the Praetors and their staff with courtesy.
     
    3. The Praetors accept full and unreserved vicarious liability for the actions, messages and behavior of their staff while acting in their capacity as moderators of the Main List.
     
    --------------------------------------
     
    Now contrast this model for an edict with the tome of rules, prohibitions and admonishments that has been proposed, which tries to regulate everything except possibly the rising and setting of the sun, though I am sure if one looks hard enough that too is probably covered. Too little, too late.
     
    This isn't an edict on moderation, it is the funeral rite for the Main List.
     
    Optime valete 

    Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:44 PM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone

    Salve,

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
    ...
    > Article 2 appears to be
    entirely directed at Marcus Cassius, the list owner, and thus is crass and ungrateful because he has been nothing but gracious in allowing the use of this list. Trying to dictate to him (for some reason known but to the Gods) that he gives up his macronational rights as list owner just because you issue an edict is specious at best, not to mention wishful thinking. One of the first rules of lawmaking is don't issue an edict you can't enforce.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63820 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
    Lucius Cruncanius Cato T. Marcio Saturnino S.P.D

    Congratulations and welcome! Enjoy your citizenship :)

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El jue, 23/4/09, chrisdemarco13 <chrisdemarco13@...> escribió:
    De: chrisdemarco13 <chrisdemarco13@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Salve Omnes
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: jueves, 23 abril, 2009 9:17

    Salve, I have just completed my citizenship test into Nova Roma, and am now a citizen.

    Valete,
    T. Marcius Saturninus


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63821 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    And, if you want to join a list with NO moderation at all. A list that has discussions about anything from the Religo, to politics to things outside of NR there is always the back alley list! :)

    Thank you for promulgating this Praetor this is the best reason to join the back alley!

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
    >
    > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_de_sermone_draft corr..doc)
    >
    > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    >
    > Valete omnes,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius
    > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > Its aims are:
    > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    > for the praetura
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63822 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn SPD.

    As you say, cives are free to join any list to discuss matters outisde (not regarding) NR. For discussing issues within (about) NR, the Constitution is clear. And stating clearly some rules about those lists will spare all of us tons and tons of nonsense especulation.

    It could be shorter, but then we would be again arguing about what is 'free speech' and what is 'free beer'.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El vie, 24/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> escribió:
    De: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 3:26

    And, if you want to join a list with NO moderation at all. A list that has discussions about anything from the Religo, to politics to things outside of NR there is always the back alley list! :)

    Thank you for promulgating this Praetor this is the best reason to join the back alley!

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_ de_sermone_ draft corr..doc)
    >
    > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    >
    > Valete omnes,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius
    > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    >
    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
    >
    > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > Its aims are:
    > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    >
    > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    > for the praetura
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63823 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: a. d. VIII Kalendas Maias: Battle of the Crimesus
    M. Moravius Horatianus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum, et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Si valetis, bene est, ego valeo

    Hodie est ante diem VIII Kalendas Maias; haec dies comitialis est:

    1184 BCE: The Fall of Troy

    Today is one of the dates calculated as the Fall of Troy. It is, therefore, the anniversary of when Aeneas, bearing his father Anchises and the Penates of Ilium, along with his wife Creusa and their young son Ascanius, fled the fires of Troy. Outside the city, in the sacred grove of Ceres, Creusa was lost, only to reappear as Ceres to urge Aeneas on to found a new city.


    AUC 414 / 339 BC: Battle of Crimesus

    Today is also the anniversary of the Battle of Crimesus, a battle that was to determine control of eastern Sicily up to the time of the First Punic War. Timoleon of Thebes, sent to assist Syracusa in Sicily, laid a trap for the Carthaginian army as it crossed the Crimesus River. It was one of the most brilliant ambushes in history. Timoleon's smaller force waited on high ground overlooking the Carthagenian line of advance. The Carthagenian column advanced as though on parade with its commander in front riding in his chariot. The Greeks waited until half of the enemy column had crossed the river. On Timoleon's right the objective was to reach the river in order to delay the rest of the Carthagenian army from joining with the head of the column. In the center and left, then, the Greek infantry sought to annihilate the Carthagenians. Our only source for the battle is Plutarch:

    "As Timoleon was marching up a hill, from the crest of which they expected to look down upon the camp and the forces of the enemy, there met them by chance some mules laden with parsley; and it occurred to the soldiers that the sign was a bad one, because we are generally accustomed to wreath the tombs of the dead with parsley; and this has given rise to a proverb, namely, that one who is dangerously sick "needs only parsley." Accordingly, wishing to free them from their superstitious fears and take away their despondency, Timoleon halted them on their march, and after discoursing otherwise as befitted the occasion, said also that the wreath for their victory had come into their hands in advance and of its own accord, the wreath with which Corinthians crown the victors at the Isthmian games, considering the garland of parsley to be traditionally sacred in their country. 4 For at that time parsley was still used for wreaths at the Isthmian, as it is now at the Nemean games, and it was not long ago that the pine came into use instead. Accordingly, when Timoleon had addressed his soldiers, as I have said, he took of the parsley and crowned himself with it first, and then the captains and the common soldiers about him did the same. 6 Moreover, the soothsayers, observing two eagles coming up on the wing, one of which bore a serpent pierced with its talons, while the other flew with a loud and inspiring cry, pointed them out to the soldiers, and all betook themselves to invoking the Gods with prayers.

    "Now, the season of the year was early summer, the month of Thargelion was drawing to a close, and the summer solstice was near; the river exhaled a thick mist which at first hid the plain in darkness, and nothing could be seen in the enemy's camp, only an inarticulate and confused noise made its way up to the hill, showing that the vast host was moving forward. But after the Corinthians had ascended the hill, where they stopped, laid down their shields, and rested themselves, the sun was passing the meridian and drawing the vapours on high, the thick haze moved in masses towards the heights and hung in clouds about the mountain summits, while the regions below cleared up, the Crimesus came into view, and the enemy were seen crossing it, in the van their four-horse chariots formidably arrayed for battle, and behind these ten thousand men-at arms with white shields. These the Corinthians conjectured to be Carthaginians, from the splendour of their armour and the slowness and good order of their march. After these the other nations streamed on and were making the crossing in tumultuous confusion. Then Timoleon, noticing that the river was putting it in their power to cut off and engage with whatever numbers of the enemy they themselves desired, and bidding the soldiers observe that the phalanx of the enemy was sundered by the river, since some of them had already crossed, while others were about to do so, ordered Demaretus to take the horsemen and fall upon the Carthaginians and throw their ranks into confusion before their array was yet formed. 7 Then he himself, descending into the plain, assigned the wings to the other Sicilian Greeks, uniting a few of his mercenaries with each wing, while he took the Syracusans and the best fighters among his mercenaries under his own command in the centre. Then he waited a little while, watching what his horsemen would do, and when he saw that they were unable to come to close quarters with the Carthaginians on account of the chariots which coursed up and down in front of their lines, but were forced to wheel about continually that their ranks might not be broken, and to make their charges in quick succession after facing about again, he took up his shield and shouted to his infantrymen to follow and be of good courage; and his voice seemed stronger than usual and more than human, whether it was from emotion that he made it so loud, in view of the struggle and the enthusiasm which it inspired, or whether, as most felt at the time, some deity joined in his utterance. Then, his men re-echoing his shout, and begging him to lead them on without delay, he signalled to his horsemen to ride along outside and past the line of chariots and attack the enemy on the flank, while he himself made his vanguard lock their shields in close array, ordered the trumpet to sound the charge, and fell upon the Carthaginians.

    "But these withstood his first onset sturdily, and owing to the iron breastplates and bronze helmets with which their persons were protected, and the great shields which they held in front of them, repelled the spear thrusts. But when the struggle came to swords and the work required skill no less than strength, suddenly, from the hills, fearful peals of thunder crashed down, and vivid flashes of lightning darted forth with them. Then the darkness hovering over the hills and mountain summits came down to the field of battle, mingled with rain, wind, and hail. It enveloped the Greeks from behind and smote their backs, but it smote the Barbarians in the face and dazzled their eyes, a tempest of rain and continuous flames dashing from the clouds. In all this there was much that gave distress, and most of all to the inexperienced; and particularly, as it would seem, the peals of thunder worked harm, and the clatter of the armour smitten by the dashing rain and hail, which made it impossible to hear the commands of the leaders. Besides, since the Carthaginians were not lightly equipped, but, as I have said, encased in armour, both the mud and the bosoms of their tunics filled with water impeded them, so that they were unwieldy and ineffective in their fighting, and easily upset by the Greeks, and when they had once fallen it was impossible for them to rise again from the mud with their weapons. For the Crimesus, having been already greatly swollen by the rains, was forced over its banks by those who were crossing it, and the adjacent plain, into which many glens and ravines opened from the hills, was filled with streams that hurried along no fixed channels, and in these the Carthaginians wallowed about and were hard beset. Finally, the storm still assailing them, and the Greeks having overthrown their first rank of four hundred men, the main body was put to flight. Many were overtaken in the plain and cut to pieces, and many the river dashed upon and carried away to destruction as they encountered those who were still trying to cross, but most of them the light-armed Greeks ran upon and despatched as they were making for the hills. At any rate, it is said that among ten thousand dead bodies, three thousand were those of Carthaginians — a great affliction for the city. For no others were superior to these in birth or wealth or reputation, nor is it recorded that so many native Carthaginians ever perished in a single battle before, but they used Libyans for the most part and Iberians and Numidians for their battles, and thus sustained their defeats at the cost of other nations.

    "The rank of those who had fallen was made known to the Greeks from the spoils. For those who stripped the bodies made very little account of bronze and iron; so abundant was silver, so abundant gold. For they crossed the river and seized the camp with its baggage-trains. As for the prisoners, most of them were stolen away and hidden by the soldiers, but as many as five thousand were delivered into the public stock; there were also captured two hundred of the four-horse chariots. But the most glorious and magnificent sight was presented by the tent of Timoleon, which was heaped about with all sorts of spoils, among which a thousand breast-plates of superior workmanship and beauty and ten thousand shields were exposed to view. And as there were but few to strip many, and the booty they came upon was great, it was the third day after the battle before they could erect their trophy.

    "Along with the report of his victory Timoleon sent to Corinth the most beautiful of the captured armour, wishing that his own native city should be envied of all men, when in her alone of Greek cities they saw the most conspicuous temples, not adorned with Greek spoils, nor possessed of joyless memorials in the shape of votive offerings from the slaughter of kinsmen and fellow citizens, but decked with barbarian spoils which set forth in fairest inscriptions the justice as well as the valour of the victors, declaring that Corinthians and Timoleon their general set the Greeks dwelling in Sicily free from Carthaginians, and thus dedicated thank-offerings to the Gods." ~ Plutarch, Life of Timoleon 26-29

    27 BCE: Tiberius Claudius Nero, future emperor Tiberius, dons the toga virilis


    Our thought for today is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 4.24:

    "'If thou wouldst be tranquil,' says Democritus, 'do little.' May it not be better to consider: Do what is necessary, and whatever the reason of a naturally social being requires, and the way reason requires it done? For this brings not only the tranquility of doing right action well, and also of little action. Most of what we say and do is unnecessary: remove the superfluous, and you will have more time and less bother. Accordingly on every occasion a man should ask himself, Is this one of the unnecessary things? Now a man should take away not only unnecessary acts, but also, unnecessary thoughts, for thus superfluous acts will not follow after."
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63824 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    You wrote:

    "For discussing issues within (about) NR, the Constitution is clear."

    Why, yes indeed it is:

    "The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility;" - Const. N.R. II.B.4

    The end. This does not require five pages of rambling pseudo-legal-speak for clarification.

    Vale,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63825 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    I like Caesar's suggestion; I have one of my own, though.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    edictum de sermone

    The praetors will moderate all public fora in accordance with Yahoo's Terms of Service, found here:

    http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/utos-173.html

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63826 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: a.d. VII Kal. Mai.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Kalendas Maius; haec dies comitialis est.

    "To speak my own mind, I did not experience more job on the day on
    which I was presented with the robe of a senator, or when, as a new
    man, born in a far from influential state, I was elected quaestor, or
    tribune, or praetor, than on those on which it was my privilege,
    considering the insignificance of my ability as a speaker, to defend a
    prisoner with success, to win a verdict in a cause before the Court of
    the Hundred, or to give the support of my advocacy in the emperor's
    presence to the great freedmen themselves, or to ministers of the
    crown. On such occasions I seem to rise above tribunates, praetorships, and consulships, and to possess that which, if it be not of natural growth, is not bestowed by mandate, nor comes through interest. Again, is there an accomplishment, the fame and glory of which are to be compared with the distinction of the orator, who is an illustrious man at Rome, not only with the busy class, intent on public affairs, but even with people of leisure, and with the young, those at least who have a right disposition and a worthy confidence in themselves? Whose name does the father din into his children's ears before that of the orator? Whom, as he passes by, do the ignorant mob and the men with the tunic oftener speak of by name and point out with the finger? Strangers too and foreigners, having heard of him in their towns and colonies, as soon as they have arrived at Rome, ask for him and are eager, as it were, to recognise him." - Tacitus, On Oratory 6-7

    "Arms, and the man I sing, who, forc'd by fate,
    And haughty Juno's unrelenting hate,
    Expell'd and exil'd, left the Trojan shore.
    Long labors, both by sea and land, he bore,
    And in the doubtful war, before he won
    The Latian realm, and built the destin'd town;
    His banish'd gods restor'd to rites divine,
    And settled sure succession in his line,
    From whence the race of Alban fathers come,
    And the long glories of majestic Rome.
    O Muse! the causes and the crimes relate;
    What goddess was provok'd, and whence her hate;
    For what offense the Queen of Heav'n began
    To persecute so brave, so just a man;
    Involv'd his anxious life in endless cares,
    Expos'd to wants, and hurried into wars!
    Can heav'nly minds such high resentment show,
    Or exercise their spite in human woe?

    Against the Tiber's mouth, but far away,
    An ancient town was seated on the sea;
    A Tyrian colony; the people made
    Stout for the war, and studious of their trade:
    Carthage the name; belov'd by Juno more
    Than her own Argos, or the Samian shore.
    Here stood her chariot; here, if Heav'n were kind,
    The seat of awful empire she design'd.
    Yet she had heard an ancient rumor fly,
    (Long cited by the people of the sky,)
    That times to come should see the Trojan race
    Her Carthage ruin, and her tow'rs deface;
    Nor thus confin'd, the yoke of sov'reign sway
    Should on the necks of all the nations lay.
    She ponder'd this, and fear'd it was in fate;
    Nor could forget the war she wag'd of late
    For conqu'ring Greece against the Trojan state.
    Besides, long causes working in her mind,
    And secret seeds of envy, lay behind;
    Deep graven in her heart the doom remain'd
    Of partial Paris, and her form disdain'd;
    The grace bestow'd on ravish'd Ganymed,
    Electra's glories, and her injur'd bed.
    Each was a cause alone; and all combin'd
    To kindle vengeance in her haughty mind.
    For this, far distant from the Latian coast
    She drove the remnants of the Trojan host;
    And sev'n long years th' unhappy wand'ring train
    Were toss'd by storms, and scatter'd thro' the main.
    Such time, such toil, requir'd the Roman name,
    Such length of labor for so vast a frame." - Vergil, Aenead I

    Today is the second day of the Vinalia Urbana.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63827 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Salvete Praetores omnesque--

    The draft looks good, although I am stunned at its length. This is just list rules, not a legal brief.

    Points of interest:

    1. What is the difference between removing a person from the ML and banning him/her?

    2. In Article 10, paragraph 2, the word 'been' should be replaced by 'be.'

    Paulla Corva
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63828 From: q_caelia_laeta Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Comitas
    Q. Caelia Laeta omnibus spd;

    I haven't been to the BA, but I think Cn. Ambrosia Crinita's observation brings up an excellent point. My experiences with Nova Roman lists outside of the ML have been excellent. I doubt any moderation has been necessary there. There is no reason for NR's most public face to be its ugliest.

    My first contact in Nova Roma was with Cn. Cornelius Lentulus. He helped guide me to an appropriate Roman name, administered my citizenship test, and responded favorably every time I contacted him with questions about the respublica and the Latin language. He recently extended an offer to all Nova Romans to join him for the Floralia, for free. It is an amazing opportunity and an act of great generosity. If I had the means to make it, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

    Over the few months I've been reading the main list, I have seen many insightful posts by Q. Valerius Poplicola and M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus, both of whom I respect as a scholars and men of the Religio. I enjoyed interacting with them on the few occasions we had to chat with one another. I am looking forward to seeing what they might accomplish for the res publica.

    Seeing such excellent citizens set at odds made me despair of Nova Roma. I thank all of those who have extended and accepted apologies, and beg that all continue to work towards establishing greater amicitia. I don't expect everything to be sunshine and roses, and I believe that differences in opinion are vital to the continued growth of the res publica. However, I also believe that we can be open-minded and capable of discussing these things in a calm and mature manner. Indeed, that seems to be the case of late, and I applaud you all for that. It's a pleasure to read a digest that doesn't make me aim immediately for the 'delete' button.

    Optime valete.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63829 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Actually the constitution is not clear - this is the problem with our praetors running amuck.

    But hey lets begin the funeral rite for the ML with this little statistic:

    BA list for April - 3974 messages
    ML for April - 1232 messages

    If any citizen wishes to join the fun an educational list: BackAlley-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Vale,

    Sulla


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn SPD.
    >
    > As you say, cives are free to join any list to discuss matters outisde (not regarding) NR. For discussing issues within (about) NR, the Constitution is clear. And stating clearly some rules about those lists will spare all of us tons and tons of nonsense especulation.
    >
    > It could be shorter, but then we would be again arguing about what is 'free speech' and what is 'free beer'.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El vie, 24/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> escribió:
    > De: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
    > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 3:26
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And, if you want to join a list with NO moderation at all. A list that has discussions about anything from the Religo, to politics to things outside of NR there is always the back alley list! :)
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you for promulgating this Praetor this is the best reason to join the back alley!
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_ de_sermone_ draft corr..doc)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Valete omnes,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > P. Memmius Albucius
    >
    > > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Its aims are:
    >
    > > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    >
    > > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    >
    > > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Valete,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    >
    > > for the praetura
    >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63830 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn S.P.D

    wow, changing from a 5 page editcum to a new one about... 11 pages!! (plus links to other descriptions) Try it, it's true!

    This is what I call simplification.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El vie, 24/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
    De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 4:21

    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete!

    I like Caesar's suggestion; I have one of my own, though.

    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

    edictum de sermone

    The praetors will moderate all public fora in accordance with Yahoo's Terms of Service, found here:

    http://info. yahoo.com/ legal/us/ yahoo/utos/ utos-173. html

    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

    Valete,

    Cato


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63831 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Catoni spd

    First phrase:

    "The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State."

    This shows where issues regarding NR must be talked. This does not mean inciting people to join private lists. This does not mean incite defection from the official lists... exactly the things you've been doing for weeks.

    Private discussions=private owned lists. Public discussions, in the Forum.

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El vie, 24/4/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> escribió:
    De: Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 2:31

    Cato Coruncanio sal.

    Salve!

    You wrote:

    "For discussing issues within (about) NR, the Constitution is clear."

    Why, yes indeed it is:

    "The right to participate in all public fora and discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such fora to be supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored fora may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility;" - Const. N.R. II.B.4

    The end. This does not require five pages of rambling pseudo-legal- speak for clarification.

    Vale,

    Cato


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63832 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Salve Corva !

    > 1. What is the difference between removing a person from the ML and banning him/her?

    Banning removes the member and prevents the member from rejoining the group until the ban is removed.
    The removal allows a removed member to rejoin, as any new member.

    > 2. In Article 10, paragraph 2, the word 'been' should be replaced by 'be.'

    Yes! Thanks ; corrected.


    Vale,


    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete Praetores omnesque--
    >
    > The draft looks good, although I am stunned at its length. This is just list rules, not a legal brief.
    >
    > Points of interest:
    >
    > 1. What is the difference between removing a person from the ML and banning him/her?
    >
    > 2. In Article 10, paragraph 2, the word 'been' should be replaced by 'be.'
    >
    > Paulla Corva
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63833 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn S.P.D

    Salve,


    > wow, changing from a 5 page editcum to a new one about... 11 pages!! >(plus links to other descriptions) Try it, it's true!
    >
    > This is what I call simplification.

    Actually if you combine it with the praetor's edict it's more like 16 pages. This forum first operates under Yahoo's terms of service--11 pages as you note. The praetors' edict--which is subservient to ToS since this is Yahoo's property we're using, is another 5 pages. 16 pages all told. Not simple, as you note.

    Vale,

    Palladius
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63834 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Lucius Coruncanius Cato Sullae spd

    Hmmmm.... how many messages saying only "yes",·"agree" or "LOL" must we count to make one true and valuable message?

    As 'free speech' is not the same as 'free beer', quantity (woo...mine is bigger!) is not the same as quality.
    What will be next?

    --
    Di te incolumem custodiant.
    L. Coruncanius Cato
    Candidate to Aedilis Curulis

    --- El vie, 24/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> escribió:
    De: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
    Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 4:17

    Actually the constitution is not clear - this is the problem with our praetors running amuck.

    But hey lets begin the funeral rite for the ML with this little statistic:

    BA list for April - 3974 messages
    ML for April - 1232 messages

    If any citizen wishes to join the fun an educational list: BackAlley-subscribe @yahoogroups. com

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_ cato@...> wrote:
    >
    > Lucius Coruncanius Cato omn SPD.
    >
    > As you say, cives are free to join any list to discuss matters outisde (not regarding) NR. For discussing issues within (about) NR, the Constitution is clear. And stating clearly some rules about those lists will spare all of us tons and tons of nonsense especulation.
    >
    > It could be shorter, but then we would be again arguing about what is 'free speech' and what is 'free beer'.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Di te incolumem custodiant.
    >
    > L. Coruncanius Cato
    >
    > Candidate to Aedilis Curulis
    >
    > --- El vie, 24/4/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_ sulla@... > escribió:
    > De: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_ sulla@... >
    > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > Fecha: viernes, 24 abril, 2009 3:26
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And, if you want to join a list with NO moderation at all. A list that has discussions about anything from the Religo, to politics to things outside of NR there is always the back alley list! :)
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you for promulgating this Praetor this is the best reason to join the back alley!
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Publius Memmius Albucius" <albucius_aoe@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Praetores omnibus s.d.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > You will find in the files section of this Forum (Renewed_edictum_ de_sermone_ draft corr..doc)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > the draft edictum that Praetor Marinus and I have prepared, to set more transparent rules in this forum and limit the moderation periods.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > This draft has been sent yesterday to our tribunes (see below) in order that they may contribute, by their positive observations, to help us build the best tool as possible.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Valete omnes,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > P. Memmius Albucius
    >
    > > praetor, for the joint praetura
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Tribunis s.d.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > As announced, I am glad sending you, attached in Word format, the draft that Praetor maior Marinus and I have written down.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Its aims are:
    >
    > > - giving extensive and clear rules on moderation in NR public fora;
    >
    > > - introducing a transparent system which sets the freedom of speech as a principle and the moderation as an exception
    >
    > > - lowering the moderation periods : one month for our new members (currently 2 months), maxi 90 days for the hardest moderation (currently no limit).
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Please let us be aware of your observations and suggestions.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Valete,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > P. Memmius Albucius pr.
    >
    > > for the praetura
    >
    > >
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63835 From: CherylS Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Salve Omnes
    Salve!
     
    Welcome to Nova Roma!
     
    L. Atia Coqua
     
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63836 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Re: Draft of a new edictum de sermone
    Corvae s.d.

    > 2. In Article 10, paragraph 2, the word 'been' should be replaced by 'be.'

    Thanks! Corrected.

    > 1. What is the difference between removing a person from the ML and banning him/her?

    Banning removes the member and prevents the member from rejoining the group until the ban is removed. The removal let her/him rejoin as anyone.


    Vale,


    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete Praetores omnesque--
    >
    > The draft looks good, although I am stunned at its length. This is just list rules, not a legal brief.
    >
    > Points of interest:
    >
    > 1. What is the difference between removing a person from the ML and banning him/her?
    >
    > 2. In Article 10, paragraph 2, the word 'been' should be replaced by 'be.'
    >
    > Paulla Corva
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63837 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Parilia and Feriae Latinae photos
    L. Livia Plauta omnibus quiritibus S.P.D.

    I haven't had time yet to upload anywhere the hundreds of photos I took these past days in Rome (I will only go home to Budapest tomorrow), but the other participants to the annual meeting of Italian cives for Parilia have already uploaded theirs.

    Here's a set of Photos by C. Aurelius Vindex, the vicarius praefecti Italiae:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/32753117@N06/?changedlayout=1

    The photos are in reverse chronological order, starting with a photo of me, Vindex and C. Petronius Dexter (who performed the Feriae Latinae ceremony) on April 21.

    You then see us on Monte Albano at Feriae Latinae (links to videos to follow). The Caesar mentioned is P. Flavius Caesar, a roman cultor deorum who was present at the ceremony.

    Then there are some photos from the previous day, when we had a roman lunch in a villa by a well-known funerary monument on the via Appia Antica. This was wonderful. All the recipies were from Apicius and similar, made with an incredible historical correctness (they had home-made garum in everything). And they even had my favourite, a soup of farro and chickpeas!
    Included in the program was a (fake) ceremony to Ceres, for Cerealia, which prevented us from making our own ceremony.
    The premises, however, are perfectly set up with everything needed for serious ceremonies too, and I've got their namecard, in case we need to organize any in the future.

    The following photos are from the Parilia parade in the Circus Maximus, organized by the city of Rome, with many good views of the "cyclobigae".

    The last set of photos is from last friday, when we made an excursion to the area of two aqueducts near Rome (aqua marcia and another one I forget now).

    Optime valete,
    Livia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 63838 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-04-24
    Subject: Photos by M. Iulius Perusianus
    L. Livia Plauta omnibus sal.

    I post here with permission links to the albums by M. Iulius Perusianus.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/milkoan/sets/72157617180833722/

    These are from the tour of aqueducts last Friday.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/milkoan/sets/72157617181084774/

    These are the ones that should make you all green with envy.
    On Friday afternoon we visited the sets of the HBO serial "Rome" in Cinecittà.
    I can't begin to tell you hiow realistic they are, and what a feeling it was to see the rostra, the temple of Juppiter Capitolinus, and walk around in the Suburra.
    Some of us changed into their roman attire. Wait until you see my photos too!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/milkoan/sets/72157617090589307/

    Some more "cyclobigae" here.

    Optime valete,
    Livia