Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. May 18-21, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65478 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-18
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65479 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-18
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65480 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65481 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65482 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy, Cato, and Outsider/Insider
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65483 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65484 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65485 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65486 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65487 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: a. d. XIV Kalendas Iunonias: Rites of the Dea Dia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65488 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Oath of Office for Diribitrix Suffecta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65490 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65491 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Appointment of Scribes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65492 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65493 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65494 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65495 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65496 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65497 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65498 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Latin Spellchecker
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65499 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65500 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65501 From: M.C.C. Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65502 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65503 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65504 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65505 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65506 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65507 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65508 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65509 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65510 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65511 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65512 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65513 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65514 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65515 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Here is the thing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65516 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Email from Maine Assistant Attorney General
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65517 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65518 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65519 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Loyalty issues with Modianus and NR (was Re: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65520 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65521 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65522 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65523 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65524 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65525 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65526 From: MCC Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Centuria Praerogativa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65527 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Interesting webcomic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65528 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65529 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65530 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65531 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65532 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: a. d. XIII Kalendas Iunonias: Vetruvius on Temples
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65533 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65534 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65535 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65536 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65537 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65538 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65539 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65540 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65541 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65542 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65543 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65544 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65545 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65546 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65547 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65548 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65549 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Wine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65550 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65551 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Wine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65552 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65553 From: wuffa2001 Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65554 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65555 From: Jesse Corradino Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65556 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65557 From: jorjor1177 Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Roman Tattoos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65558 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Appointing a Censorial Scribe
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65559 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65560 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Roman Tattoos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65561 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65562 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65563 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65564 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65565 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65566 From: violetphearsen@yahoo.com Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65567 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65568 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65569 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65570 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65571 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65572 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65573 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65574 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65575 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65576 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65577 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65578 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65579 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65580 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65581 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65582 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65583 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65584 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65585 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65586 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65587 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65590 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65591 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65592 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Weight Loss
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65593 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65594 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65595 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65596 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65597 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65598 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65599 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65600 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65601 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65602 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65604 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65605 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65606 From: ellencatalina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65607 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65608 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65609 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65610 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65611 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65612 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65613 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65614 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65615 From: Roger Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Livy on the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65616 From: politicog Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Thoughts on the Consul Suffectus election
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65617 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Weight Loss
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65618 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65619 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65620 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Weight Loss
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65621 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Wine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65622 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: a. d. XII Kalendas Iunias: AGONALIA; Vediovis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65623 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Livy on the Censors
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65624 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65625 From: Sondra Jacobs Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Anything but politics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65626 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Wine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65627 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65628 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65629 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65630 From: Roger Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Censor Suffectus election
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65631 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65632 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65633 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65634 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65635 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65636 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65637 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: 3 reasons to vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65638 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65639 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65640 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65641 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65642 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65643 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Be Wary of Potitus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65644 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65645 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65646 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65647 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65648 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65649 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65650 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65651 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65653 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65655 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65656 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65657 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65659 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65478 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-18
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caesar Maiori SPD.
 
If by fighting with you, you mean pointing out your inconsistencies, well the solution is simple. Starve me of examples. 
 
I also wonder at your understanding of what would be involved to "bring us together". Might I suggest as a methodology towards this supposed goal of yours that you refrain from your usual tactics of a knee jerk reaction, followed by voluble posts of increasing stridency, whose focus veers off in all directions other than the central issue, closely followed by obfuscation, deflection and trivialization of your perception of the issue, neatly rounded off with hammering away at a theme that was never the central point of the issue, in an effort to convince people that what you say it is all about, was in fact what indeed what the issue was about, when clearly it was anything but that.  
 
Of course, I equally know that you only issue calls to come together in unity when you have either got bored with the topic (stating you are off to read X, Y or Z, etc), been found clearly wanting in logic or focus on the issue, or lastly have outdone yourself in excessively emotional posts and been called to task as you do more damage to the position you support by posting than you would otherwise do by taking a vow of typing silence.
 
You ask "Wouldn't acting this way strenghten Nova Roma, result in productive cives instead of endless empty feuds?"
 
Seeing as how you seem to be the one running around with the lighted taper most times igniting the trail of gunpowder, it would be more appropriate if you demonstrated this ability before you ask that question, just as though it would be better if you exhibited, just rarely, an appreciation of what Moderatio is, for I have to say, and don't be so rash as to challenge me on this as this forum abounds with the evidence, that you are the last person to preach the virtues of Moderatio, clearly never having been afflicted with what I must presume you regard as a nasty viral like infection to be resisted at all costs. To date you have proven exceptionally resistant to the effect of the Moderatio virus, and I am sure your immune system will prove as resilient for years to come.
 
Optime vale.

From: Maior
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 7:57 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Orthopraxy

M. Hortensia G. Equitio Gn. Iulio spd;
  please let's not fight this thread is an act to understand differences and bring us together. A central thread is a common understanding of how ancient Romans acted and shared values.
 
 When I first joined Nova Roma, 6 years ago, C. Curius Saturninus and A. Apollonius Cordus introduced me this idea. Both are philosophers, Saturninus a stoic and Cordus a follower of Aristotle. Neither are cultores. This is a cultural issue of common values.

Let me give a good example it's taken from "Popular Morality in the Early Roman Empire" Theresa Morgan, Cambridge University Press 2007.

It's about the Roman virtue of Moderatio, self-control:
 
 "Moderation is never described as a gift of the gods, but always put down to the credit of the practitioner. In most of Valerius' examples [Valerius Maximus, Roman historian  and moralist who wrote 'Memorable Deeds and Sayings' ], there is also a benefit for the community as a whole, which becomes more law-abiding or harmonious." pl46

"A special case of moderation is exampled by enemies who became friends. Enmity itself...is not described as a vice, but good people put it aside in certain special circumstances. M. Aemilius Lepidus and Fulvius Flaccus became friend when they were elected censors at the same time 'thinging that it did not become people who pubicly shared the highest power to be engaged in a private feud' (4.2.1). Others give up hostilities when elected consuls together (4.2.2.).... , or when enemies are in need of help (4.2.4,7)
 
" In all these cases the good of the state ia put before private feuds...Both types of example show the importance of the solidarity  of the Roman group." p. 146

Wouldn't acting this way strenghten Nova Roma, result in productive cives instead of endless empty feuds?

That's why we're here, it says on the front page of our website:
 "Dedicated to the restoration of classical Roman religion, culture and virtues."
                        bene valete
                      Marca Hortensia Maior
>
> Thanks for all the replies. I was just
curious with all the
> discussions going on I thought this would be the
perfect place to ask.
> I had always wondered about it.
>
>
Vale,
> Quintus Servilius Priscus
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at
7:23 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
> >
> >
Salve;
> >
> > No.  It does not automatically make you a
Catholic if both your parents are
> > Catholic.  What makes one a
Catholic is baptism within the church by a
> > priest or deacon (of
course anyone can baptize under extra-ordinary
> > conditions for sake
of actual "membership within the church" requires
> > ordinary
conditions).  Typically a person is baptized and then later
> >
confirmed; however, in the Byzantine Rites baptism and chrismation (i.e.,
> > confirmation) and done together.
> >
> >
If both parents were Catholic and then started attending an Episcopal church
> > they could, in theory, remain Catholic as long as they
abstained from the
> > Episcopal sacraments.  If they formally
joined an Episcopal church and
> > received the sacraments there then
they would be considered apostate
> > Catholics and therefore
excommunicated ipso facto by their very actions.
> >
> > I
hope this sufficiently answers your question.
> >
> >
Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Deism:  A Non-Prophet
Religion
>




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65479 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-18
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Maior Catoni sal;
I am not talking about cults at all but a common sharing of the same cultural values. That's why it is so important that we are on the same page.

Moderatio has nothing to do with religion. Moderatio means putting the res publica first when we disagree. This is a very good example as you just say your approach is from Roman law and government.

But you see this piecemeal approach doesn't work.

Cato when you felt Nova Roma wasn't in compliance with the State of Maine statues you went to the Maine Attorney General. Instead if you were familiar with Roman values, you would have put the good of the Res Public first and you would have worked productively with magistrates to rectify the situation.

That's what this discussion is all about. As for fostering the cultus deorum' that's called Pietas. How can you exhibit it? Love the gods, the nation, and your family.
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> It is the automatic exclusion of a whole mass of people from that process that causes friction. To take the stance that because someone might not worship as you do they must be incapable of *desiring* the best for the Respublica in *all* its forms - or be incapable of any "acceptable" level of Romanitas - is folly.
>
> As soon as you say "you don't understand what it is to be Roman" you create a false and denigrating divide between the citizens of the Respublica. No number of quotations or claims of academic prowess can heal an emotional rift created artificially to rend the garment of the Respublica apart.
>
> I approach the wholeness of the Respublica from a point of view involving Roman law and government. Others approach it from religion, or art, or architecture, or military history. They all feed each other and feed from each other. None are more "personal" than the other because we should approach each as a part of the State.
>
> That is why I say that I have as much right as anyone to involve myself in understanding and fostering the religio; I do not look at it as a matter of individual taste. It is a matter that affects *all* citizens.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65480 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Maiori sal.

Salve!

And here is where it falls part. I did ask our magistrates to address the situation; I did point out exactly why and how I felt Nova Roman law was being abrogated. You saw the results: stony silence, charges of laesa patriae, and being told basically to sit down and shut up.

I then called upon our magistrates to allow the People to exercize their rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I was met with stony silence, cries of "traitor" and worse, and being told to sit down and shut up.

A very Roman cultural value is a respect for the law. I believe that this particular value has been broke and twisted time and time again. If attempts to respond to this internally fail, as they did, then it is time to make those who have been given authority by the will of the People to answer these questions by any means available to the People. This right is specifically guaranteed to us as citizens by our Constitution.

Perhaps you view my particular interest as "piecemeal", but the whole point I am making is that every citizen has the right to be involved in every aspect of the building of our Respublica in whatever way they feel they can or want to. That is how a community is built, not by telling people they simply can't understand or aren't sufficiently educated, or by shuffling off onto other Lists and segregating into tiny interest groups.

Other Lists certainly have their usefulness; but when they become the raison d'etre in and of themselves, the Respublica is robbed of much important and instructive conversation; this is why I encourage everyone to speak freely about everything here, in the Forum, the center of the Respublica. Silence is not an answer worthy of the great authority that the People have freely given to our magistrates, and if other means must be used to make them accountable, so be it.

I even called in the Senate for the conscripti to speak here, in public - about *anything* - just to let the citizens know they are alive and well and intensely interested in what happens in the daily life of the Respublica, not just what hapens in the Senate.

So yes, put the Respublica first. Follow its laws, increase its knowledge bout its State cult, engage in its daily life. Do not pull yourself apart from it, do not try to drive wedges between citizens by declaring their unworthiness or inability to experience "Roman-ness" because you disagree with them.

Vale!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65481 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Salve,

I follow the argument. I think there are two issues involved in this. One issue is what we as a community want to encourage in our priesthood in terms of belief. Do we find "merely external" aspects sufficient, or do we want to encourage something more? The second issue involves efficacy. To a certain degree Roman religion was empirical, especially in terms of prodigies and expiation. At the end of the day, if a priest devoid of all personal belief is able to successfully accomplish this, then should we care? A sub-issue here is how we are to determine successful expiation of portents. Should growth of the NR community be sufficient evidence? I'm not sure all of these issues have ever been thoroughly discussed here.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Lucretio Agricolae Gualtero Graecae SPD
>
> Salvete.
>
> "I would take to heart Cicero's comment in de natura deorum I.3 that piety like other virtues cannot exist in merely outward pretense."
>
> This is a perfect way to sort of bring my questions together; Cicero openly denied the efficacy of almost every aspect of divination, yet he continued in his office of augur because he understood the importance of outward acknowledgment of the vital part that ritual behavior had in the health of the State.
>
> Could it be said (and here I draw upon your comments, Agricole) that he was not denying the Gods themselves but that his actions reflected the cultural understanding into which he was born - the "internal beliefs and assumptions" - that the Gods guarded the State and even though he might have inwardly thought these particular actions were silly he balanced that with the overall public benefit derived from performing them - and that this understand acted in the place of "belief", for the sake of efficacy?
>
> While there may not have been a standardized set of doctrines, &c. regarding the Gods (and the multiplicity of varying genealogies and inter-deital relationships found in the histories of the Gods bears this out quite well) there were general patterns of understanding about what They did (Iuppiter was lightning and thunder and law, among other things), and there were standardized patterns of ritual behavior, the basis for the need to "behave exactly as the [Romans] themselves do" in certain places at certain times.
>
> Following public ritual behavior for the benefit of the State - a cultural assumption that we can easily find a basis for in ancient writers - stands as the necessary ingredient for Graecus' religious efficacy. Following public ritual behavior correctly also serves the purpose of presenting a unified front - to "appear
> to observers to be doing exactly what they do" - in the belief that doing so will be of public benefit. This may not be exactly why, internally, the Japanese do (or the Romans did) what they do or did, but can it not reflect a mutually beneficial agreement that *doing* it is a first step?
>
> So to draw both of your answers together: is it not possible that the conviction that such action are necessary for the continued health and future growth of the State can act as belief, thereby satisfying the need for Cicero's piety *and* the desire to put on the values and cultural assumptions the Romans had?
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
> P.S. - Agricole, for all the bluster that bounces around in the Forum, I hope you would know that I am always asking these kinds of questions because I actually want to know. If to understand them I tend to use the terminology with which I most easily understand certain ideas, that too is merely a result of my cultural...conditioning, for lack of a better word.
>
> It is *never* my intent, if I use a phrase or term with a Christian understanding, to assume that the cultural basis for that understanding is necessarily "better" than any other; it is simply so that I can draw parallels - if they exist - that make it easier for me to understand them. I am never adverse to being instructed in the more correctly applicable terminology, if it exists. GEC
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65482 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy, Cato, and Outsider/Insider
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus"

...

Get real: sincere with yourself, honest with others, and that everyone here is a reconstructionist -- an outsider ever seeking to be inside ...


This is exactly what I was thinking!

-Gualterus

>  
> Valete,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65483 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Orthopraxy

  A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni Cn. Iulio Caesari quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


  Cato Iulio Caesari sal.

Salve!

I was going to say, I'm only 5'8" so maybe I'd get in under the measuring stick.

    ATS: Gee, did you shrink since we saw you at the consular dinner you graciously arranged for us?  You looked taller then.   Osteoporosis from tobacco consumption or something?  Improper nutrition?  Consumption of moldy food?  Or did the mice get to it first?   ;-)

    BTW, I did NOT say censores HAD to know Latin (has any of them?)...but they had better know a lot of Latin OR the nomenclature rules, preferably some of the former and a good bit of the latter.  We teach these Latin classes, and there are textbooks intended for self-instruction...heck, there’s even a golden oldie with Latin conjugations on it.  

Vale!

Cato

Valete!  

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> "tall Christians" <LOL> and short ones too! Of course that should have been "all Christians"
>
> Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Caesar Maori sal,
> >
> > That was the case prior to the Indian Mutiny. The British, officers, non-com ranks, rankers and administrators of the East India Company in India post Clive of India up to the Mutiny often did "go
>

  
    

     
   Messages in this topic           <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/65415
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65484 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Salve!

Normally I would agree with you, but religion is more than just belief it is also culture and culture is something that is and can be instilled at a young age.  Look at Judaism and circumcision.  It would be better to be circumcised as an infant than wait to adulthood, and there is still the freedom to reject the faith one is brought up in.  Religion and culture is a double edged sword in any society.

The push to end infant baptism was a hotly debated item during the Protestant Reformation amongst Anabaptists and those who thought like they did.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:


In my opinion, that is the greatest hoax of a life that you can become a member of a church/religion when you do not can speak and you are just arriving into life. But unfortunately this hoax is the same for all religions.

So I think that a law must be adopted by all the word, by UN that every man/woman can chose his/her religion only at his/her majority.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65485 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Marcae Hortensiae salutem dicit

Very well said here.  This goes back to what I mentioned previously as to how we, as Nova Romans, view the self.  How do we view look at virtue, and what is our working ethics.  We cannot simply study ONLY ancient philosophy or classics, because we have almost two thousand years of collective "history" available.  We should be reading Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, Sartre, Kant, Foucault (and so many others) and then evaluating them on what we perceive as Roman standards.  If we are a living tradition we need to do more than just look at the past, but look everywhere in to find out were we are and were we want to go.  This will make us more than just a Roman club, but our own unique culture.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:


Maior Catoni sal;
I am not talking about cults at all but a common sharing of the same cultural values. That's why it is so important that we are on the same page.

Moderatio has nothing to do with religion. Moderatio means putting the res publica first when we disagree. This is a very good example as you just say your approach is from Roman law and government.

But you see this piecemeal approach doesn't work.

Cato when you felt Nova Roma wasn't in compliance with the State of Maine statues you went to the Maine Attorney General. Instead if you were familiar with Roman values, you would have put the good of the Res Public first and you would have worked productively with magistrates to rectify the situation.

That's what this discussion is all about. As for fostering the cultus deorum' that's called Pietas. How can you exhibit it? Love the gods, the nation, and your family.
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65486 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

I saw the results.  A lot of people's time was wasted and I'm sure money was spent to placate you.  In the end all was in order, and the smoking gun you were so enthusiastically looking for simply wasn't there. 

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:


Cato Maiori sal.

Salve!

And here is where it falls part. I did ask our magistrates to address the situation; I did point out exactly why and how I felt Nova Roman law was being abrogated. You saw the results: stony silence, charges of laesa patriae, and being told basically to sit down and shut up.




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65487 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: a. d. XIV Kalendas Iunonias: Rites of the Dea Dia
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Ego vos iubeo bono animo esse.

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas Iunonias; haec dies comitialis est: Sol in Geminos introitum facit.

In even-numbered years the Fratres Arvales would gather in the sacred grove of the Dea Dia at the fifth mile along the Via Campania. There they sacrificed to a Goddess known to us only from their own record, the Acta Fratrum Arvalum.

AUC 840 / 87 CE: The Grove Rites of the Fratres Arvales

"In the consulship of C. Bellicus Natalis Tebanianus and C. Ducenius Proclus XIV KAL JUN in the grove of the Dea Dia, when C. Julius Silanus was magister, with C. Nonius Bassus Salvius Liberalis taking charge, the Fratres Arvales performed sacrifices to Dea Dia. C. Salvius Liberalis, who was acting in place of the magister, C. Julius Silanus, in front of the grove sacrificed onto the altar two expiatory pigs in expiation for polluting the grove and the work to be carried out there. Then he sacrificed a cow as an offering to Dea Dia... [The five attending Arvales] sat down in the tetrastylum and feasted off the sacrifice, and taking up their togae praetextae and their wreaths made of ears of corn with woolen bands, they ascended the grove of Dea Dia with attendants clearing the way and through Salvius Liberalis Nonius Bassus, who was acting in place of the flamen, they sacrificed a choice lamb to Dea Dia and, when the sacrifice was complete, they all made a libation with incense and wine. Then, when the wreaths had been brought in [returning into the temple] and the statues perfumed, they made Q. Tillius Sassius annual magister from the coming Saturnalia to the next, likewise they made T. Julius Celsus Marius Candidus flamen. Then they went down to the tetrastylum, and there reclining in the triclinium they feasted in the presence of the magister, C. Julius Silanus. After the feast wearing a veil and sandals, with a wreath woven with roses, with an attendant clearing the way, he ascended above the starting gates [of the circus] and gave the signal to the four-horse chariots and the leapers, with L. Maecius Postumus presiding, he honored the victors with palms and silver wreaths. On the same day at Rome, in the house of the magister C. Julius Silanus, the same people who were in the grove dined." ~ CIL vi.2065, col. 2, lines 15-40; ILS 5037

From other inscriptions in the Acta we gain additional details of the grove rites. The rites were never quite the same from year to year as additional deities were invoked or else passed from the rites. The entrails of sows offered to the geni loci of the grove were burnt on an outdoor altar, and that of a cow's offered to Dea Dia on a silver brazier. The magister would wear a toga praetexta to make the initial sacrifices. Then he would bathe before donning white robes to receive his fellow Arvales for a sacred meal of bread and the meat of the sows. After the sacrifice of a white female lamb, the Arvales were led in procession back to the temple where each sacrificed pieces of liver coated with milk and flour three times before the Goddess. The Fratres Arvales then returned to the outdoor altar to repeat the sacrifice and offer prayers. It was at this point in some years that the indigementa were invoked as well. In certain years the Fratres would then return inside the temple to offer prayer to sacred urns (ollae). The urns were carried outside where their contents were tossed on the ground in an offering to Mater Larum. The temple doors were then closed, loaves of bread wrapped in laurel were given to slaves, who were then dismissed, and the Arvales then proceeded back to the altar. Standing before the outdoor altar, the magister sent two Arvales in "search of the cereals." Returning with these, a sacrifice was then made of incense, sweet wine, milk, and sweet cakes.

At this point, only in the year 218 C. E., acolytes handed out hymnals and they too were then dismissed. The Carmen Fratrum Arvalium was chanted in ternary rhythm as the Arvales danced in procession (a tripudatio) back into the temple for further rites to the Dea Dia. The Carmen is never recorded as being used in any other year. That year, too, was one in which Mater Larum was named in the Acta, but She appears only three other times. The Acta is not consistent from year to year, as deities enter and leave the record frequently. Even the Dea Dia does not consistently appear in the Acta Fratrum Arvalum. And thus it is difficult, if not impossible now, to have any idea on the Dea Dia.

In the inscription above for the year 840 AUC we see the Fratres electing their magister and flamen for the following year. Then chariot races were held near the grove. These were not public chariot races. Domitianus, who was emperor at the time, is not mentioned eventhough he was a Frater Arvalis as all emperors were, begining with Augustus who founded the sodalitas in 29 BCE. He was therefore not one of the attending Fratres. Even the Magister Julius Silanus did not attend, as he prepared for the feast that was to follow in the evening at his home in the City. Who else may have attended such events would likely be senators and some imperial magistrates. It seems that these rites and their attending chariot races were reserved for the elite of the Empire away from the vulgar crowds of the City.


Today's though is from the Golden Sayings of Pythagoras 48:

"Never begin to set thy hand to any work, till thou hast first prayed the gods to accomplish what thou art going to begin."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65488 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Oath of Office for Diribitrix Suffecta
Salvéte Omnes,


I, Lucia Julia Aquila (Jenna Rose Thomason) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucia Julia Aquila (Jenna Rose Thomason) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Lucia Julia Aquila (Jenna Rose Thomason) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Lucia Julia Aquila (Jenna Rose Thomason) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Lucia Julia Aquila (Jenna Rose Thomason) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Diribitor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Diribitrix Suffecta and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

This oath I take, for the time period as specified in the Senatus consultum ultimum for the purpose as stated therein.


Bene valéte atque di vos incolumes custodiant.

Lucia Iulia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65489 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

Salve!

"did you shrink since we saw you at the consular dinner you graciously arranged for us? You looked taller then."

It was the toga. Everyone looks taller in a toga :)

"and there are textbooks intended for self-instruction...heck, there's even a golden oldie with Latin conjugations on it."

and, of course, there are the scribae!

Vale!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65490 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Fabio Modiano Petronio Dextero SPD

Salvete!

During the Reformation there was a great deal of strife over Baptism, with some sects arguing that believers should be re-Baptized as adults specifically for Dexter's reasons; that only adults can make that kind of decision.

Others, Luther among them, argued that the efficacy of the Sacraments already accepted by a person remained undiluted and not "polluted" by Roman Catholic trappings because it was the act itself that was efficacious, not the little bits and pieces added on to the ritual.

Again, theologically sound or not, the argument was made that a child's soul needed the grace of Baptism to escape a dire afterlife if it (as so many hundreds of thousands of infants did) died before the age of maturity.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65491 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Appointment of Scribes
Ex Officio

Edictum Censor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus 

I. The following citizens are appointed Censorial Scribes 
  
 
M. Arminius Maior
C. Petronius Dexter
Q. Valerius Poplicola

II. No oath shall be required.

III. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given this the 19th of May 2762 

a.d. XIV Kal. Iun. MMDCCLXII A.U.C.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65492 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Modiano sal.

Salve!

No, it was there, and is still there, smoking. Just because it has gone unpunished does not mean it does not exist. Or that it will always go unpunished. Our law has not changed.

And I'm not sure what you mean that "money was spent to placate" me.
The only money spent that I know of was my paying for a registered letter to be sent to Iunia Laeca as demanded by Aurelianus.

But this is ground only too well-tread.

Back to useful discussion.

Vale!

Cato



-- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> I saw the results. A lot of people's time was wasted and I'm sure money was
> spent to placate you. In the end all was in order, and the smoking gun you
> were so enthusiastically looking for simply wasn't there.
>
> Vale:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 2:42 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Maiori sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > And here is where it falls part. I did ask our magistrates to address the
> > situation; I did point out exactly why and how I felt Nova Roman law was
> > being abrogated. You saw the results: stony silence, charges of laesa
> > patriae, and being told basically to sit down and shut up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65493 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
On 5/19/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Again, theologically sound or not, the argument was made that a child's soul needed the grace of Baptism to escape a dire afterlife if it (as so many hundreds of thousands of infants did) died before the age of maturity.

When I was being taught about Catholicism I was taught that baptism was god accepting the child or adult into a state of grace. Confirmation was usually undergone in the teens when the person supposedly made an informed choice to 'confirm' their baptism.

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65494 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Equestria secured an attorney to deal with the Maine Attorney General's office.  Whether that attorney was paid, or whether he helped her out of the kindness of his heart, he still spent time doing something that took money away from paying clients.  You and your trumped up crap wasted a lot of peoples time.  You tried to appear as a "big shot" only to show your true colors, and waste a lot of time.  Good team playing there!

Agreed. Back to useful discussion.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:


Cato Modiano sal.

Salve!

No, it was there, and is still there, smoking. Just because it has gone unpunished does not mean it does not exist. Or that it will always go unpunished. Our law has not changed.

And I'm not sure what you mean that "money was spent to placate" me.
The only money spent that I know of was my paying for a registered letter to be sent to Iunia Laeca as demanded by Aurelianus.

But this is ground only too well-tread.

Back to useful discussion.

Vale!

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65495 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
CatoLucillae Merulae sal.

Salve!

Yep, that's the idea. The practice of the ritual is effectual whether or not the recipient is aware of it. Even if a child cannot (or does not) believe in its efficacy, merely participating in the act confers grace.

Much the same is felt of many religious rituals; they are efficacious in and of themselves regardless of the state of the participants. In some ways, this reflects my original concept of the religio Romana, which may or may not be accurate.

Vale!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> On 5/19/09, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Again, theologically sound or not, the argument was made that a child's
> > soul needed the grace of Baptism to escape a dire afterlife if it (as so
> > many hundreds of thousands of infants did) died before the age of maturity.
>
>
> When I was being taught about Catholicism I was taught that baptism was god
> accepting the child or adult into a state of grace. Confirmation was usually
> undergone in the teens when the person supposedly made an informed choice to
> 'confirm' their baptism.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65496 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve!

Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.

In other words, she did her job.

If she had to use an attorney to do so, the Respublica should be paying for it, as it is a *necessary* part of the life of the Respublica. Laeca is certainly welcome to present any invoice for monies spent necessary to complete her work to the Senate for re-imbursement, and I would gladly support her.

Protecting the Respublica in regards to legal requirements is absolutely a beneficial goal and what any member of a team who cared about its future would strive for.

You seem to be making it sound as if it is a tiresome and time-wasting burden to bring the Respublica into legal compliance.

Not a very responsible course of action, and a very dangerous concept to encourage for our future.

Vale!

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Equestria secured an attorney to deal with the Maine Attorney General's
> office. Whether that attorney was paid, or whether he helped her out of the
> kindness of his heart, he still spent time doing something that took money
> away from paying clients. You and your trumped up crap wasted a lot of
> peoples time. You tried to appear as a "big shot" only to show your true
> colors, and waste a lot of time. Good team playing there!
>
> Agreed. Back to useful discussion.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > No, it was there, and is still there, smoking. Just because it has gone
> > unpunished does not mean it does not exist. Or that it will always go
> > unpunished. Our law has not changed.
> >
> > And I'm not sure what you mean that "money was spent to placate" me.
> > The only money spent that I know of was my paying for a registered letter
> > to be sent to Iunia Laeca as demanded by Aurelianus.
> >
> > But this is ground only too well-tread.
> >
> > Back to useful discussion.
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65497 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Did you even read what she posted to the senate?  She had done her job, Nova Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time.  Spin it any way you feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains that you wasted a lot of people's time and for what?  Why?  To discredit our magistrates?  You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME!  The irony is that you likely really do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you did was for the good of Nova Roma.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:


Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve!

Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.

In other words, she did her job. 




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65498 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Latin Spellchecker
Salvetes omnes,

Here is a fairly recent edition of a Latin spellchecker for ms word v.2002 to v.2007. English V.
There are also others for other programs and in French, Italian, Castilian Spanish and German. Oh and even Brezhoneg;)

May I suggest that you do not set it to "automatic" so you learn the proper spelling and aspices etc. Not only will you cheat yourself but, as with most spellcheckers, very occasionally it may not be the right grammar or conjugation etc. It should be used only as a learning tool.

Be sure you set the Latin variations and Options according to your course or to your Instructor's specification.

I am hoping for some input from our Latinists after they evaluate it, with any tips for using the program.

Valete Optime,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65499 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
In a message dated 5/18/2009 5:16:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l.coruncanius_cato@... writes:
By this edict, I appoint citizen L. Iulia Aquila as Scriba Cohors Aedilicia.
What on earth do you need a scribe for?  In our days when we had over 500 tax paying citizens we got by working on our own.   If you don't have time to do the job why are you here?
 
Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65500 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Q. Fabio Maximo salutem dicit

Here we go hypocrisy and not knowing when to keep one's mouth shut (or rather when not to type something).  Your good friend Gnaeus Iulius Caesar has a very large cohores but you mentioned nothing about that; whereas, L. Coruncanius Cato appoints ONE person and you lament about the "good old days!"  Now, I have not been in Nova Roma as long as you (1998) but I have been around since 2002.  I've been an aedilian scriba (to Scaurus) who also had several people in his cohores.  Must you, and others, attack L. Coruncanius Cato every feeble opportunity you can muster?

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 1:30 PM, <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:


In a message dated 5/18/2009 5:16:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l.coruncanius_cato@... writes:
By this edict, I appoint citizen L. Iulia Aquila as Scriba Cohors Aedilicia.
What on earth do you need a scribe for?  In our days when we had over 500 tax paying citizens we got by working on our own.   If you don't have time to do the job why are you here?
 
Q. Fabius Maximus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65501 From: M.C.C. Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Salve Fabius

have you see http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedilitas_curulis_MMDCCLXII#Staff?

Vale

M.Curiatius Complutensis

QFabiusMaxmi@... escribió:

In a message dated 5/18/2009 5:16:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com writes:
By this edict, I appoint citizen L. Iulia Aquila as Scriba Cohors Aedilicia.
What on earth do you need a scribe for?  In our days when we had over 500 tax paying citizens we got by working on our own.   If you don't have time to do the job why are you here?
 
Q. Fabius Maximus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65502 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
Salve Consul
 
<LOL> I don't begrudge my colleague his share of scribes. :>
 
Vale bene
Caesar

--- On Tue, 5/19/09, M.C.C. <complutensis@...> wrote:

From: M.C.C. <complutensis@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Curule Aedile edict 62-11: Apointment of Scriba
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 12:50 PM



Salve Fabius

have you see http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Aedilitas_curulis_MMDCCLXII#Staff?

Vale

M.Curiatius Complutensis

QFabiusMaxmi@... escribió:
In a message dated 5/18/2009 5:16:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, l.coruncanius_ cato@yahoo. com writes:
By this edict, I appoint citizen L. Iulia Aquila as Scriba Cohors Aedilicia.
What on earth do you need a scribe for?  In our days when we had over 500 tax paying citizens we got by working on our own.   If you don't have time to do the job why are you here?
 
Q. Fabius Maximus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65503 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Salve, Julia Aquila, et salvete Omnes,

Um ... did you mean to post a link for the Latin spell checker? If so, I
didn't see it, and I'd be *so* happy to have it! Can it work in combination
with the regular English spell checker? I am at the point where I have a
few (a very few) phrases, but until that changes, I'll be using mostly
English. Still, I'd love to be able to use this.

Cura et valias (see?)
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65504 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve!

Did you even read what was written by the AG's Office for the State of Maine? Where she says she will "let [us] know *when* we are in compliance" (emphasis mine)?

I thought not.

And this was written *after* we were told time and time again that we already *were* in compliance.

Nice try, though.

Carry on.

Vale!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Did you even read what she posted to the senate? She had done her job, Nova
> Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time. Spin it any way you
> feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains that you
> wasted a lot of people's time and for what? Why? To discredit our
> magistrates? You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME! The irony is that you likely really
> do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you did was
> for the good of Nova Roma.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance
> > with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and
> > repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.
> >
> > In other words, she did her job.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65505 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Salve Maria Caeca,

That would help wouldn't it?;)
Here you go:
http://www.drouizig.org/col/en/index.html
Mine works with the English spell-checker in word, although I had already entered many Latin words into the English spell-checker also.
I used it a little this morning and it seemed to work fine.
I use word 2003 (because I like that version) and although I have my language (under tools) set to "detect language automatically" you also might have to set "Mark selected text" as Latin.

Vale,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Maria Caeca" <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:
>
> Salve, Julia Aquila, et salvete Omnes,
>
> Um ... did you mean to post a link for the Latin spell checker? If so, I
> didn't see it, and I'd be *so* happy to have it! Can it work in combination
> with the regular English spell checker? I am at the point where I have a
> few (a very few) phrases, but until that changes, I'll be using mostly
> English. Still, I'd love to be able to use this.
>
> Cura et valias (see?)
> C. Maria Caeca
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65506 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni K. Fabio Modiano spd;
yes, the Maine Attorney Generals office had 1 complaint : from Sulla!

The Maine Attorney General's office advised Laeca to placate this angry person on our Board by filling out a few more forms; they were not necessary.

The entire tiresome time-wasting business was a non-issue caused by Sulla. During that time, I contacted Equestria Laeca and we discussed NR's affairs, the law, our compliance, the status of the Magna Mater fund, etc...

I couldn't organize a celebration to Bona Dea on May 1 due to my time being occupied by this entire non-issue.

How can we support the gods and the state? by acting with Moderatio and having Roman Pietas; if you,Cato, Gn. Iulius Caesar and Sulla had spoken to Iunia Equestria Laeca, this all would have been settled peacefully and that is showing Pietas, a great act of Moderatio.

If we love Nova Roma we will put the good of the state above differences. We will do something real, something productive, instead of this endless sterile fighting.
bene valete in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior
Postscriptum: read my new article on the Matralia and celebrate it! III Idus Iun. (june llth)

Reminder: here are articles in the NRwiki I've written, contributed to concerning the cultus deorum and philosophy for the benefit of all Nova Romans.
Lar
Penates
Manes
Liber
Magna Mater
Cultus Apollonis
Sol
Fortuna
Aedes Fortunae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium Primigeniae (Nova Roma)
LarariumSaturnalia
Reading list for the cultus deorum
Religio Romana
Roman laws
Religion and law
Mens
Aedes Mentis (Nova Roma)
Venus
Egeria
Camenae
Nymphs
Bona Dea
Hercules
Childbirth (Nova Roma)
Children (Nova Roma)
Epicurus, Epicureans
Reading list for philosophy
Flaminica
Flaminica Dialis
Sibylline Books stub
Matralia






> Did you even read what was written by the AG's Office for the State of Maine? Where she says she will "let [us] know *when* we are in compliance" (emphasis mine)?
>
> I thought not.
>
> And this was written *after* we were told time and time again that we already *were* in compliance.
>
> Nice try, though.
>
> Carry on.
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > Did you even read what she posted to the senate? She had done her job, Nova
> > Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time. Spin it any way you
> > feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains that you
> > wasted a lot of people's time and for what? Why? To discredit our
> > magistrates? You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME! The irony is that you likely really
> > do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you did was
> > for the good of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve!
> > >
> > > Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance
> > > with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and
> > > repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.
> > >
> > > In other words, she did her job.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65507 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caesar Maiori SPD.

Re. MMP. Once again you display your talent at obfustication. The issue with the MMP was never from my perspective about our compliance with Maine State regulations relating to fund raising. It was about wire fraud.

As many times as you trot out this tired old deflection I will rebut it. Keep going.

As for what people should have done what, maybe you should focus on the issues raised, not what you think or say the issues are about. There is always, it seems, a vast difference between the two.

Again - you are the last person to preach the virtues of Moderatio.

Optime vale.


--- On Tue, 5/19/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

> From: Maior <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Orthopraxy
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 3:49 PM
> M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni K.
> Fabio Modiano spd;
>    yes, the Maine Attorney Generals office
> had 1 complaint : from Sulla! 
>
> The Maine Attorney General's office advised Laeca to
> placate this angry person on our Board by filling out a few
> more forms;  they were not necessary.
>
> The entire tiresome time-wasting business was a non-issue
> caused by Sulla. During that time, I contacted Equestria
> Laeca and we discussed NR's affairs, the law, our
> compliance, the status of the Magna Mater fund, etc...
>
> I couldn't organize a celebration to Bona Dea on May 1 due
> to my time being occupied by this entire non-issue.
>
> How can we support the gods and the state? by acting with
> Moderatio and having Roman Pietas; if you,Cato, Gn. Iulius
> Caesar and Sulla had spoken to Iunia Equestria Laeca, this
> all would have been settled peacefully and that is showing
> Pietas, a great act of Moderatio.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65508 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Salvete,
I don't think it's too ethical for us to take a decision like that for our pets (keeping them indoors at all times).

It all comes down to the question of whether you would like to live 100 days as a sheep or one day as a lion.

We know what Achilles answered to that.

We can't ask cats, but due to their feline nature I can guess most would like to live as lions too.

Going outdoors involves risks, but also infinite possibilities for discovery and adventures, interaction with other animals, etc. All those things that make life interesting.

Life is dangerous. It's a natural instinct to try to guard those you love from its dangers, but one has to be careful that the protective instinct doesn't become stifling.

If it were children involved, how many people would approve of a parent keeping them indoors all the time, guarding them from all possible dangers, but practically taking their freedom away?

Personally, I favour a compromise: I have my cats spayed, so that they are not slaves to their mating instinct, but I have a cat flap, so that they can choose whether to go out or stay inside.
Usually they are just content with their daily patrol of their territory, but I've had cases of cats getting lost in the cellars, and neighbours trying to poison them.
Still, I'd rather give them freedom and take some risks.

Valete,
Livia

>
> Salve,
>
> My cats have always been strictly indoors for the last 25 years. My vet says there is no reason they need to go outside, & they will have longer lives if they are indoors. My oldest two cats are aged 22 (yes, 22!) and 18. Our local animal shelter will not even let anyone adopt a cat unless they sign an agreement to keep it indoors at all times. Blessings to you for rescuing those kitties!
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Atia Coqua
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65509 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Centuria Praerogativa
M. Lucretius Agricola custos Omnibus S.P.D.

The diribitores have informed me that the centuria praerogativa is XIV.

Via Google translate:

Il diribitores mi hanno informato che la Centuria praerogativa è XIV.

Les diribitores m'ont informé que l'praerogativa Centuria est XIV.

El diribitores me han informado de que la centuria se praerogativa XIV.

Die diribitores haben mir mitgeteilt, dass der Centuria praerogativa ist XIV.

O diribitores ter me informou que o praerogativa é Centuria XIV.

De diribitores au informat-mă că centuria praerogativa este XIV.

В diribitores проинформировали меня о том, что centuria praerogativa является XIV.

valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65510 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Salve Cato,
>
>
> Next is the idea of the reconstruction of the religio in a *modern* restoration of the Respublica. I still think that trying to act as if the past two thousand years of cultural evolution (*not* just religious) has not occurred is simplistic bordering on ridiculous. For better or worse, the vast majority of us *have* grown up in a certain environment, resulting from the whole sweep of human self-discovery but especially the Age of Enlightenment, which fostered deeper self-examination and the examination of the whole structure of society in ways that were almost unheard of.
>
Very well said. We westerners have grown up in an environment that wasn't only shaped by Christianity, but, in a decisive manner and extent by Enlightenment.
In fact, a pattern of continuous efforts is visible in the evolution of western culture, as generations of scientists, scholars, writers, and intellectuals of all kinds struggled in order to free human thought from the limits imposed by Christianity.
This is what made science possible and gave our material, political, social culture its current shape.
Thank the gods, and the efforts of our ancestors, we are now free of the medioeval need to conciliate all the aspects of human knowledge with the christian religion.

However, this pattern of human enlightenment was not born out of the blue, but took inspiration exactly from the culture we are trying to reconstruct here, the roman one. It is the stydy of classical history and culture that inspired many a politician to struggle toward the republic, that made it possible to imagine the kind of the society you describe below.

That's why our effort to shake off the last vestigies of christian conditioning is very much part of a progressive trend, one that has been characteristic of western society for the last 500 years.

Vale,
Livia


> One of the most important aspects of this evolution of thought politically is the idea that every member of a community is bound to the others by more than religious or ethnic or any one specific characteristic; that societies are made not out of homogeneity, but plurality, but that the very plurality found in a nation, for instance, becomes a strength, not a weakness.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65511 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Salve, Julia Aquila, and thank you! I'll be setting this up, soon!

Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65512 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Cato Liviae Plautae sal.

Salve!

I think you are correct in essence. I think the difficulty I have is that the historical actions of the temporal powers of the Western Church are equated with the faith itself; this may be natural for those who stand outside it, and it may even be a little naive of me to imagine that the two can be easily separated.

The Age of Enlightenment did not spring full-formed like Minerva from Iuppiter's head simply out of the study of and resurgence of knowledge about Roman or other Classical cultures, though. The previous 1200 years did produce many astonishing and glorious visions of human society, some of them borne of Christian thought as well. The "Dark Ages" weren't really that dark. There's a wonderful book called "Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel" that is a very basic overview of what forces were driving Western society towards the Renaissance and Enlightenment.

When I brought out the stories of my own private cultus I was not thinking that these were "better" or "worse" than any other cultus, only sharing the joy that comes from their celebration or the seriousness of their observance. I can see that because most of us live in cultures in which these are already widely celebrated (although in generally extraordinarily commercialized forms), there is the conception that it is unnecessary to do so here.

But my defense of my private cultus cannot, and should not, be read as a denigration of the State cult, which I have shown that I support without hesitation.

So given the exception that if a question is asked or an assumption made about my private cultus that is incorrect - which I will respond to to the best of my abilities - I have accepted that. In turn, the response to every question I have or comment I make about the religio Romana - even if it is erroneous - should not be a blanket condemnation of my private cultus, but rather a careful and helpful explanation of where I might have understood something incorrectly; some have taken the time to respond as I hoped they would, and I have learned a great deal about it as a result. Others have taken a virulently antagonistic approach, and still do.

Is it so incomprehensible that I would inherently tend to view things with a terminology and understanding based on that of my private cultus? And that understanding of terminology will not change unless I am educated by those who actually live the religio. I have gotten books and read them, but it is incalculably of greater benefit to talk to those who *live* what I am reading about. That is why I think it of greater benefit that discussion happens *here* in the public Forum rather than off on another List. The people on the Religio List, for the most part, already know about this stuff, and are discussing fascinating details. We as a Respublica need to talk about foundational things in a way that expands *all* of our understanding.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65513 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Excuse me troll -

I have a letter from Linda Conti - Assistant Attorney General from the state of Maine who said flat out NR was not in compliance with the solicitations Act. And, that they would inform me when Nova Roma was in compliance.

Point being - Someone did not do their job OR they felt solicitations was not necessary for a not for profit corporation.

Point being - it took my complaint to bring that issue to light.

Point being - now it is getting fixed.

Why dont you be apart of the solution - not part of the problem.

Instead of fostering more arguement and distractions from the truth.

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Did you even read what she posted to the senate? She had done her job, Nova
> Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time. Spin it any way you
> feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains that you
> wasted a lot of people's time and for what? Why? To discredit our
> magistrates? You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME! The irony is that you likely really
> do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you did was
> for the good of Nova Roma.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance
> > with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and
> > repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.
> >
> > In other words, she did her job.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65514 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-19
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Did you read my response to her report. Her report was partially accurate. She continued to say that it was not necessary - HOWEVER, what is a not for profit corporation make its money? THROUGH SOLICITATIONS. Especially when the organization is in decline. So, she was accurate in the senate that the bare minimum was satisfied. However we couldn't raise a penny beyond our consistently declining dues. But, hey - if you are fine with that Censor candidate. So be it. You have no desire to contribute to the growth of NR - that much seems to be certain.

Vale,

Sulla


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Did you even read what she posted to the senate? She had done her job, Nova
> Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time. Spin it any way you
> feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains that you
> wasted a lot of people's time and for what? Why? To discredit our
> magistrates? You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME! The irony is that you likely really
> do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you did was
> for the good of Nova Roma.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into compliance
> > with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed loudly and
> > repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.
> >
> > In other words, she did her job.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65515 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Here is the thing
If you want more untrustworthy, illegally acting magistrates - elect Modianus.

If you want a continually declining organization - Modianus is your man.

If you think change is needed to the organization. Change to move Nova Roma in the direction of growth, prosperity, and one who favors the rule of law - that person is Cato.

Modianus will end up getting NR sued again - just like he did before. Modianus will end up screwing up NR even worse than before. He has taken extra legal action before and could have been put on trial - instead macronational action was needed. And, what's worse is he hasn't learned from it. But, hey you want more factionalism - elect Modianus - he is your man.

Vale,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65516 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Email from Maine Assistant Attorney General
Mr. Woolwine:



I just wanted to let you know that the Office of Licensing and Registration received Nova Roma's application for exemption from becoming licensed as a charitable organization in the State of Maine, and the application was approved. At this point, Nova Roma is all set to solicit donations in the State of Maine.



Carrie Carney


This was dated on May 4.

Guess what Modianus - prior to May 4th - Nova Roma was not in compliance. YOU LIED. And this is the censor candidate in NR. He seems to want nova roma to not be able to collect and solicit funds in Maine or for that matter in any state. Why is that? Do you not want Nova Roma's treasury to actually INCREASE?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65517 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Hortensiae salutem dicit

Very well said!  Equestria has been nothing but professional it is unfortunate that she had to endure the abuse of some people so unjustly; and I notice that Sulla (and Cato) are still going on about how Nova Roma wasn't in compliance.  It is troubling how some people act.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:


M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni K. Fabio Modiano spd;
yes, the Maine Attorney Generals office had 1 complaint : from Sulla!

The Maine Attorney General's office advised Laeca to placate this angry person on our Board by filling out a few more forms; they were not necessary.

The entire tiresome time-wasting business was a non-issue caused by Sulla. During that time, I contacted Equestria Laeca and we discussed NR's affairs, the law, our compliance, the status of the Magna Mater fund, etc...

I couldn't organize a celebration to Bona Dea on May 1 due to my time being occupied by this entire non-issue.

How can we support the gods and the state? by acting with Moderatio and having Roman Pietas; if you,Cato, Gn. Iulius Caesar and Sulla had spoken to Iunia Equestria Laeca, this all would have been settled peacefully and that is showing Pietas, a great act of Moderatio.

If we love Nova Roma we will put the good of the state above differences. We will do something real, something productive, instead of this endless sterile fighting.
bene valete in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65518 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
The law is something you have not learned to respect Modianus. The Maine AG confirmed I was correct. The law has always been on my side. That is all I care about. Something you and your libra faction have failed to learn.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Hortensiae salutem dicit
>
> Very well said! Equestria has been nothing but professional it is
> unfortunate that she had to endure the abuse of some people so unjustly; and
> I notice that Sulla (and Cato) are still going on about how Nova Roma wasn't
> in compliance. It is troubling how some people act.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni K. Fabio Modiano spd;
> > yes, the Maine Attorney Generals office had 1 complaint : from Sulla!
> >
> > The Maine Attorney General's office advised Laeca to placate this angry
> > person on our Board by filling out a few more forms; they were not
> > necessary.
> >
> > The entire tiresome time-wasting business was a non-issue caused by Sulla.
> > During that time, I contacted Equestria Laeca and we discussed NR's affairs,
> > the law, our compliance, the status of the Magna Mater fund, etc...
> >
> > I couldn't organize a celebration to Bona Dea on May 1 due to my time being
> > occupied by this entire non-issue.
> >
> > How can we support the gods and the state? by acting with Moderatio and
> > having Roman Pietas; if you,Cato, Gn. Iulius Caesar and Sulla had spoken to
> > Iunia Equestria Laeca, this all would have been settled peacefully and that
> > is showing Pietas, a great act of Moderatio.
> >
> > If we love Nova Roma we will put the good of the state above differences.
> > We will do something real, something productive, instead of this endless
> > sterile fighting.
> > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65519 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Loyalty issues with Modianus and NR (was Re: Orthopraxy)
Also, Modianus would you care to disclose how many competing Roman Organizations you have joined, tried to start up and create that would be in direct competition to Nova Roma?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> The law is something you have not learned to respect Modianus. The Maine AG confirmed I was correct. The law has always been on my side. That is all I care about. Something you and your libra faction have failed to learn.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Hortensiae salutem dicit
> >
> > Very well said! Equestria has been nothing but professional it is
> > unfortunate that she had to endure the abuse of some people so unjustly; and
> > I notice that Sulla (and Cato) are still going on about how Nova Roma wasn't
> > in compliance. It is troubling how some people act.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Maior <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > M. Hortensia G. Equitio Catoni K. Fabio Modiano spd;
> > > yes, the Maine Attorney Generals office had 1 complaint : from Sulla!
> > >
> > > The Maine Attorney General's office advised Laeca to placate this angry
> > > person on our Board by filling out a few more forms; they were not
> > > necessary.
> > >
> > > The entire tiresome time-wasting business was a non-issue caused by Sulla.
> > > During that time, I contacted Equestria Laeca and we discussed NR's affairs,
> > > the law, our compliance, the status of the Magna Mater fund, etc...
> > >
> > > I couldn't organize a celebration to Bona Dea on May 1 due to my time being
> > > occupied by this entire non-issue.
> > >
> > > How can we support the gods and the state? by acting with Moderatio and
> > > having Roman Pietas; if you,Cato, Gn. Iulius Caesar and Sulla had spoken to
> > > Iunia Equestria Laeca, this all would have been settled peacefully and that
> > > is showing Pietas, a great act of Moderatio.
> > >
> > > If we love Nova Roma we will put the good of the state above differences.
> > > We will do something real, something productive, instead of this endless
> > > sterile fighting.
> > > bene valete in pacem deorum
> > > Marca Hortensia Maior
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65520 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?

Does loyalty to an NR mean anything to you? And how do you reconcile a traitor to the organization?

And let alone his involvement in the Libra party.

Vale,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65521 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Tedious bore
There are no "competing organizations" because there is no "competition". Looking at this as a zero-sum game is idiotic. There is room for all, the more the better, I say, and spread the love and study of Rome far and wide.

Agricola




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> ...would you care to disclose how many competing Roman Organizations you have joined, tried to start up and create that would be in direct competition to Nova Roma?
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65522 From: M. Lucretius Agricola Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Unending dullness
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> The Maine AG confirmed I was correct.

No they didn't. If anything was illegal, as you claim, just bring charges and end this tedious rant. Put up or shut up.

Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65523 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
ORLY? Pax Decorum? Sound familiar Modianus?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola" <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
>
> There are no "competing organizations" because there is no "competition". Looking at this as a zero-sum game is idiotic. There is room for all, the more the better, I say, and spread the love and study of Rome far and wide.
>
> Agricola
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > ...would you care to disclose how many competing Roman Organizations you have joined, tried to start up and create that would be in direct competition to Nova Roma?
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65524 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
HELLO, I did. This is precisely why Iunia got an attorney to FIX IT. This is why I was able to post the note dated May 4th listed below.

Did you have a problem understanding the message the attorney sent to Mr. Woolwine (myself) dated on May 4th?


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola" <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > The Maine AG confirmed I was correct.
>
> No they didn't. If anything was illegal, as you claim, just bring charges and end this tedious rant. Put up or shut up.
>
> Agricola
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65525 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but-politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65526 From: MCC Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Centuria Praerogativa
M. Cur. Complutensis Consul Lucretio Agricolae omnibusque SPD

Thanks for the information.

M. Lucretius Agricola escribió:

M. Lucretius Agricola custos Omnibus S.P.D.

The diribitores have informed me that the centuria praerogativa is XIV.

Via Google translate:

Il diribitores mi hanno informato che la Centuria praerogativa è XIV.

Les diribitores m'ont informé que l'praerogativa Centuria est XIV.

El diribitores me han informado de que la centuria se praerogativa XIV.

Die diribitores haben mir mitgeteilt, dass der Centuria praerogativa ist XIV.

O diribitores ter me informou que o praerogativa é Centuria XIV.

De diribitores au informat-m&# 259; c&#259; centuria praerogativa este XIV.

&#1042; diribitores &#1087;&#1088; &#1086;&# 1080;&#1085; &#1092;&# 1086;&#1088; &#1084;&# 1080;&#1088; &#1086;&# 1074;&#1072; &#1083;&# 1080; &#1084;&#1077; &#1085;&# 1103; &#1086; &#1090;&#1086; &#1084;, &#1095;&#1090; &#1086; centuria praerogativa &#1103;&#1074; &#1083;&# 1103;&#1077; &#1090;&# 1089;&#1103; XIV.

valete

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65527 From: M Arminius Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Interesting webcomic
Salvete


An interesting webcomic, about the life and misadventures of a certain M. Felix in the times of Vespasianus.

http://spqrblues.com/d/20051120.html


Vale
M. Arminius


Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65528 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
On 5/20/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma?  If so, why?

Does loyalty to an NR mean anything to you?  And how do you reconcile a traitor to the organization?

And let alone his involvement in the Libra party.

I'm curious about this. Has he really tried to create other organisations to compete with Nova Roma? Why would anyone, let alone a magistrate do that?  and what is the Libra party?  I've never heard od it.

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65529 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Lucretio Agricolae salutem dicit

I find it both tedious and interesting that Sulla is wanting to bring up "Pax Deorum" something that never got off the ground.  Yes, I was involved in possibly organizing a Roman group devoted to the Roman Gods because A.  the Collegium Pontificum was engaged in stagnation/deadlock.  and B.  That stagnation/deadlock was frustrating.  I was not the only person involved in the "Pax Deorum Project."  Many people still active in Nova Roma were involved, and if they wish to come forward they can; however, it was initiated because we were frustrated because things were not working here and we wanted to DO something.  Ultimately, instead of persuing Pax Deorum we decided to give Nova Roma our energy and try to make it work -- this was back in 2005. 

Sulla will simply try anything he can to discredit my name.  So now it looks like I get demonized because I care about the "Pax Deorum" Peace of the Gods -- because back in 2005 I don't think there was much Peace. 

An interesting aside.  When I was in the Boni back in 2004 there was a website for a Roman organization that Sulla and L. Sicinius Drusus had an organization (and a website) called Mos Maiorum.  Drusus showed me the weibste.  Likewise, Drusus had created an e-mail list clandestinly labeled "Mongolian Mushrooms" to throw off people who might be looking for "rival Roman groups."  It seems that Drusus passed away in 2006, requiescant in pace; therefore, since it cannot be verified (since Sulla for many years had lost interest in Nova Roma) I'm sure it will be denied.

Do I really care about this Mos Maiorum group (whether it is dead or not) or even the "Mongolian Mushroom" project?  Not really.  There are groups like SVR that can exist alongside Nova Roma.  What matters most, as far as I am concerned is that the Gods of Rome are honored, respected, and not forgotten.  If Nova Roma can maintain that mandate then I will support Nova Roma with all my efforts.  If and only if Nova Roma decided to abandon the Gods of Rome then I too would likely abandon Nova Roma; but since that is not likely to happen I gladly invest my time and see no other Roman organization capable of doing the good work that Nova Roma is doing.  Can we do more?  Certainly.  Is Sulla looking for something to attack me with?  You bet!!

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM, M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:


There are no "competing organizations" because there is no "competition". Looking at this as a zero-sum game is idiotic. There is room for all, the more the better, I say, and spread the love and study of Rome far and wide.

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> ...would you care to disclose how many competing Roman Organizations you have joined, tried to start up and create that would be in direct competition to Nova Roma?


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65530 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Lucretio Agricolae salutem dicit

Arguing with Sulla is like arguing with a child; it is a futile and tedious endeavor.  His mental image of the truth is clouded by his own sense of self, and he is incapable (so it would seem) in engaging in dialectic.  It is unfortunate that he perpetuates his own truth; wastes people's time; and, generally clutters up e-mail with his non-sense.  I guess every organization needs a "clown" and he would be ours.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:41 AM, M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> The Maine AG confirmed I was correct.

No they didn't. If anything was illegal, as you claim, just bring charges and end this tedious rant. Put up or shut up.

Agricola


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65531 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Salve:

There was a thread several years ago that dealt with Roman wine and a vineyard in Italy that had grapes similar to those that would have been available in antiquity.  I assume a google search would warrant something.

LOL.  By the way I like your "anything-but-politics" thread!  The constant political debate gets monotonous!

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:


Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but-politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65532 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: a. d. XIII Kalendas Iunonias: Vetruvius on Temples
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Invenietis omnia prospera evenisse sequentibus Deos.

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Iunonias; haec dies comitialis est

Vetruvius on the Placement of Temples

"The lanes and streets of the city being set out, the choice of sites for the convenience and use of the state remains to be decided on; for sacred edifices, for the forum, and for other public buildings. If the place adjoin the sea, the forum should be placed close to the harbour:º if inland, it should be in the centre of the town. The temples of the gods, protectors of the city, also those of Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva, should be on some eminence which commands a view of the greater part of the city. The temple of Mercury should be either in the forum, or, as also the temple of Isis and Serapis, in the great public square. Those of Apollo and Father Bacchus near the theatre. If there be neither amphitheatre nor gymnasium, the temple of Hercules should be near the circus. The temple of Mars should be out of the city, in the neighboring country. That of Venus near to the gate. According to the regulations of the Hetrurian Haruspices, the temples of Venus, Vulcan, and Mars should be so placed that those of the first not be in the way of contaminating the matrons and youth with the influence of lust; that those of Vulcan be away from the city, which would consequently be freed from the danger of fire; the divinity presiding over that element being drawn away by the rites and sacrifices performing in his temple. The temple of Mars should be also out of the city, that no armed frays may disturb the peace of the citizens, and that this divinity may, moreover, be ready to preserve them from their enemies and the perils of war.

"The temple of Ceres should be in a solitary spot out of the city, to which the public are not necessarily led but for the purpose of sacrificing to her. This spot is to be reverenced with religious awe and solemnity of demeanor, by those whose affairs lead them to visit it. Appropriate situations must also be chosen for the temples and places of sacrifice to the other divinities. For the construction and proportions of the edifices themselves, I shall give rules in the third and fourth books; because it appears to me, that in the second book I ought to explain the nature of the different materials employed in building, their qualities and use; and then, in the other books, to give rules for the dimensions of buildings, the orders, and their proportions." ~ M. Vitruvius Pollio, De Architectura 1.7


AUC 567 / 186 BCE: Perfume arrives at Rome

"Touching on the invention of ointments, it is not well known who was the first to devise them. Certain it is, that during the reign of the Trojans, and while Ilium stood, perfumes did not yet exist: nor was incense used in sacrifice and divine service. The fume and smoke of the cedar and the citron trees only, the old Trojans were acquainted with when they offered sacrifice: their fuming and wafting fume (more truly I may term it, than any odoriferous perfume) they used: which they might easily come by, since they were plants growing among them, and thus familiar; notwithstanding they had found out the juice of roses, wherewith yet they would not correct the foresaid strong fumes in those days; for that also was known to be a commendable quality of Oile Rosate.

"To say for certain and precisely, when this enormity entered first into Rome and began there to reign, I am not able to say. Sure it is, as appears upon record, that after the subduing of King Antiochus and the conquest of Asia, which was about the 565 year from the foundation of Rome, P. Licinius Crassus, and L. Iulius Cæsar the Censors, published an edict, prohibiting and forbidding to sell any foreign or strange ointments within Rome: for so they termed these sweet mixtures and compositions. But (believe me) nowadays, some there be so wanton and delicate, that there is no wine or other drink good with them, nor will go down their throat, unless it be spiced and aromatized with these balms: and so little pass they for the bitterness of these odours and smells, that they are well content to waste and spend a deal thereof, without and within, behind and before, above and beneath, to enjoy the perfume thereof in all parts of the body where so ever. Well known it is, that L. Plotius, brother to L. Plancus, a man of great credit and authority, as having been twice Consul, and Censor besides, being outlawed and proclaimed a banished person by the decree of the Triumvirs, was discovered within a certain cave at Salernum, where he lay close hidden and sure enough otherwise, by the very smell only of a precious ointment that he had about him: and so by that means (besides the shame and disgrace that he received, thus to detect himself and be found of his enemies) the rigor of the act and arrest that passed against him, was executed and performed upon his body. And who would ever pity such persons, & not judge them worthy to come to so bad an end? But to conclude all this discourse, There is not a country in the world that yields such plenty and variety of drugs fit for these compositions, as Ægypt: and next to it, Campania in Italy may carry the name, for the store of roses there growing." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 13.2, 23-24


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 59:

"What cannot be satisfied is not a man's stomach, as most men think, but rather the false opinion that the stomach requires unlimited filling."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65533 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd

There is, I think, a wine in Spain that resembles a lot to the former roman wines. It's called Pedro Ximenes. It's a sweet and dense wine from Jerez (simmilar but not the same as Sherry or Porto wines).
The grape strains were all gone  when the Phyloxera went to Europe from America and destroyed almost all grape fields. Since then, european grapes are mixed with american varieties, resistant to this parasite :/

Di vos incolumem custodiant.

--
L. Coruncanius Cato
Aedilis Curulis
Scriba Consulis Hispaniae

--- El mié, 20/5/09, Maior <rory12001@...> escribió:

De: Maior <rory12001@...>
Asunto: [Nova-Roma] the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: miércoles, 20 mayo, 2009 8:22

Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but- politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65534 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Caesar Modiano SPD
 
Mos Maiorum? When I was a member of the Boni back in 2004 along with you the only website I recall was "The Optimates" designed by Hadrianus in concert with you. This was your first association with an "alternative" to Nova Roma wasn't it?
 
You then went on in late 2004 to create the NR_Optimates group and Yahoo list, which was going to be your alternative and possibly allied faction to the Boni after you left the latter. I recall you attempting to convince Drusus and Sulla that your leaving the Boni could actually work to the advantage of the latter as you would continue to cooperate in secret. It all seemed a bit bizarre, especially as you were posting on the NR_Optimates list that you were just trying to buy time to complete the exit of yourself and your gens from the Boni, before I compromised your strategy.
 
You recall you had tried to convince me to leave the Boni with you, stating that while you were fed up with being attacked, you badly wanted to be Praetor and felt you could never achieve that as long as you were in the Boni. You then unilaterally bound me to silence. I was pretty ticked at you for putting me in that position, as I'd have rather have not known about this grubby reason for leaving and your strategy. Earlier Diana if I recall had been raked over the coals by you for not consulting her friends before embarking on an action, leaving a position I believe, and you had posted at length about how these sorts of decisions should be debated first. A reasonable point. After you dropped this "I'm leaving the Boni  and don't say anything" email on me out of the blue, I asked you to do what you had demanded in the past, namely consult with your friends in the Boni before taking this action. I gave you 24 hours to do that, during which I wouldn't say anything.
 
Suspecting your were up to something even then, gut I suppose, I searched for a Yahoo list guessing you probably had started one, and sure enough there was NR_Optimates, with open archives (I think you forgot to close them). I read how you were telling me one thing in order to buy time and telling Drusus and Sulla another. At that point I terminated the 24 hour period of silence I had agreed to and let Sulla and Drusus know you were basically lying to all of us. At that time, and since, I have always maintained that all you have needed to do was debate the matter, give your supposed friends a chance to hear your reasons, including this apparent secret pact you were proposing the Boni and your new group commit to, and then if you wouldn't change your mind, leave in an atmosphere of calm and some goodwill, as numerous others had in the past. What totally destroyed the goodwill possible in that exit strategy was that you were openly and unashamedly, in the supposed comfort of your NR_Optimates list, reveling in deceiving all of us. As many in the Boni had helped secure your position on the CP this was a stunning revelation of your character.
 
You then went on to recast yourself as the "Pope of Peace", founding your Peace list aimed at ending "strife" in NR, that you subsequently erased after you had a row on it with Marinus. Your posted and public reason for exiting the Boni on that list and elsewhere was your desire to make peace with everyone, but not one mention did you make of your strong desire to become Praetor. It was after that that you started Pax Deorum, your second alternative to Nova Roma, which you never openly admitted to being a member of until I confronted you with that latest creation in 2005, during your abortive attempt as Consul to insert Vedius into the Collegium Augurum in contravention of the Constitution and the law. 
 
If one thing Modiane ensured the years of confrontation with you, it was your inherent ability to deceive, and shroud your motives in the mask of a pious desire for peace and reconciliation, when all the time like any good politician on the make you were just after a new position or title. The whole Peace List and your rather oily attempt to ingratiate yourself with your former opponents was just that, oily. It wasn't born out of a genuine desire for peace in Nova Roma, but was a calculated ploy to position yourself for a run at higher magisterial office. You correctly deduced you couldn't achieve that in the Boni. What I have always loathed was the grubby, sneaky and devious way you engineered your exit strategy. It didn't have to be that way, you rolled the dice and chose that path and it set the stage for years to come. What it taught all of us in the Boni at the time, and was reinforced by your treatment of Cincinnatus in the trials of last year, a man who had helped you get the title of Augur, was that you say one thing and do another. That there is no inherent streak of loyalty in you, other than to yourself and your latest bid for whatever title or position you crave. That as with your time as Consul, you care nothing for the law if it gets in your way. What a pathetic shambles that business was with Vedius. You were prepared to break the law and constitution just to get someone into the Collegium Augurum who would help you nullify Cincinnatus.
 
As Consul you were next to nigh incompetent and created a needless crisis in pursuit of your vendetta against Cincinnatus, and as Censor you initiated a chain of events in your feud with Sulla that nearly led to the law suit, all because you loathe those of us who call you out on what your inherent character is. Sulla, Drusus, Cincinnatus, Scaurus, and Fabius especially so, all people who assisted you in your quick ascent in the CP. You didn't have the guts and decency to accord those friends an opportunity to do what you had made a huge fuss over, debate prior to leaving, and they in turn watched as you spun out one story in public knowing the reality was totally different.
 
I know full well what you were going through re your Dad when you left the Boni so don't need to remind me, but that never caused you to miss a beat in your political calculations and ability to twist, turn, duck, obfuscate, deceive and generally smarm your way into a new more beneficial alliance. The only reason you achieved what you did following leaving the Boni was that you found backers with more influence. If one digs deep through all the pious layers Modiane, one finds your core character and motives and there is nothing inspiring, noble or compelling about them.
 
It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one organization to the next.
 
Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
 
Vale.
Cn. Iulius Caesar

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Lucretio Agricolae salutem dicit

I find it both tedious and interesting that Sulla is wanting to bring up "Pax Deorum" something that never got off the ground.  Yes, I was involved in possibly organizing a Roman group devoted to the Roman Gods because A.  the Collegium Pontificum was engaged in stagnation/deadlock.  and B.  That stagnation/deadlock was frustrating.  I was not the only person involved in the "Pax Deorum Project."  Many people still active in Nova Roma were involved, and if they wish to come forward they can; however, it was initiated because we were frustrated because things were not working here and we wanted to DO something.  Ultimately, instead of persuing Pax Deorum we decided to give Nova Roma our energy and try to make it work -- this was back in 2005. 

Sulla will simply try anything he can to discredit my name.  So now it looks like I get demonized because I care about the "Pax Deorum" Peace of the Gods -- because back in 2005 I don't think there was much Peace. 

An interesting aside.  When I was in the Boni back in 2004 there was a website for a Roman organization that Sulla and L. Sicinius Drusus had an organization (and a website) called Mos Maiorum.  Drusus showed me the weibste.  Likewise, Drusus had created an e-mail list clandestinly labeled "Mongolian Mushrooms" to throw off people who might be looking for "rival Roman groups."  It seems that Drusus passed away in 2006, requiescant in pace; therefore, since it cannot be verified (since Sulla for many years had lost interest in Nova Roma) I'm sure it will be denied.

Do I really care about this Mos Maiorum group (whether it is dead or not) or even the "Mongolian Mushroom" project?  Not really.  There are groups like SVR that can exist alongside Nova Roma.  What matters most, as far as I am concerned is that the Gods of Rome are honored, respected, and not forgotten.  If Nova Roma can maintain that mandate then I will support Nova Roma with all my efforts.  If and only if Nova Roma decided to abandon the Gods of Rome then I too would likely abandon Nova Roma; but since that is not likely to happen I gladly invest my time and see no other Roman organization capable of doing the good work that Nova Roma is doing.  Can we do more?  Certainly.  Is Sulla looking for something to attack me with?  You bet!!

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:36 AM, M. Lucretius Agricola <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:


There are no "competing organizations" because there is no "competition". Looking at this as a zero-sum game is idiotic. There is room for all, the more the better, I say, and spread the love and study of Rome far and wide.

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> ...would you care to disclose how many competing Roman Organizations you have joined, tried to start up and create that would be in direct competition to Nova Roma?


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65535 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
> Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other
> organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?

Uh, you yourself are *currently* involved in an effort to create another
organization that competes with Nova Roma.

Not that there's anything wrong with that (I'm involved too, peripherally).

But how can you criticize someone else for doing a thing in the past while
you're doing exactly the same right now?

O.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65536 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Salve:

Oh, you have me so figured out don't you!  LOL!

If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed.  Do I care about Nova Roma?  Certainly.  Do I care deeply about certain people in Nova Roma?  Absolutely.  Do I "collect" titles as you, and others, so vehemently accuse me of?  No.  Anyone who is active in Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing things.

You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone.  There are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have spoken to many times on the telephone.  These individuals know me best.  You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.

I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.  I've been in Nova Roma for seven years.  I've been active in Nova Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices.  Yet you paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal opportunist.  You are so far from the truth in your assertions of me.  But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your candidate.  And you call me political!

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one organization to the nex
 
Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
 
Vale.
Cn. Iulius Caesar



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65537 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
P. Corva M. Arminio s.p.d.

SPQR Blues is wonderful! I've been enjoying it for a while, now. I think Klio, the artist, is quite good.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M Arminius Maior <marminius@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete
>
>
> An interesting webcomic, about the life and misadventures of a certain M. Felix in the times of Vespasianus.
>
> http://spqrblues.com/d/20051120.html
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65538 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Because Sulla, and others, are trying to discredit me any way they can during this election time.  All they are trying to accomplish is spreading doubt.  Doubt that I am not fully committed to Nova Roma, and doubt that I am going to leave Nova Roma for something else, or create a "rival group."  Sulla is not interested in truth, it would seem, but simply to discredit me. 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:



> Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other
> organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?

Uh, you yourself are *currently* involved in an effort to create another
organization that competes with Nova Roma.

Not that there's anything wrong with that (I'm involved too, peripherally).

But how can you criticize someone else for doing a thing in the past while
you're doing exactly the same right now?

O.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65539 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
P. Corva M. Hortensie Maior s.p.d.

Thank you so much for starting this thread. :) It's beginning to seem as if 'that crazy time of year' is 'always.'

The only definitely Roman wine I know of that still exists today is Falerno (Falernian). I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm not a connoisseur, unfortunately.

I wonder if the Romans had spumante, or is that a modern invention? I must go look on Google.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
> anything-but-politics thread.
> Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).
>
> I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
> that the Romans drank?
> optime valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65540 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Caesar Modiano sal.

Strange, only recently you said you cared little for anyone in Nova Roma, or did you forget that too?

Of course you are political Modianus and so am I and everyone else who fights elections, I just don't garb myself in pious disinterest in the process.

Have you figured out? Yes. Don't overestimate yourself, it didn't take very long, you aren't that deep and your record of shifting from one position to the next, one camp to the next, one set of backers to the next speaks volumes. Inconsistency has always been your trademark allied to incomptence.

Optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Salve:
>
> Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
>
> If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my involvement in
> Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I care about Nova Roma?
> Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain people in Nova Roma?
> Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and others, so vehemently accuse
> me of? No. Anyone who is active in Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply
> by being around and doing things.
>
> You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There are
> several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have spoken to
> many times on the telephone. These individuals know me best. You do not
> know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will paint a poor picture of
> me because that is what you do.
>
> I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting. I've been
> in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova Roma for all of
> those years, and have held many offices. Yet you paint a picture that I'm
> some sort of flighty non-committal opportunist. You are so far from the
> truth in your assertions of me. But it is an election time, and you and
> your friends will do whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to
> build up your candidate. And you call me political!
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
> gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it always
> > will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and you will go
> > where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one organization to the
> > nex
> > Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
> >
> > Vale.
> > Cn. Iulius Caesar
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65541 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)

Salvete.

 

It’s that crazy time of year when citizens are asked to vote for one of the most important magistrates of NR, and when Maior and friends—faced with facts they can’t deny—start whining that it’s all a bore and let’s talk about cooking instead.

 

Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate compliance, the law, and the future of NR.

 

Valete,

Potitus

 

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Maior
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:23 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)

 




Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but- politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65542 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness

Dear David,

 

On Monday, you wrote, “There seems to be more merit in putting aside feuds than in perpetuating them”. Here you are, a few days later, perpetuating your feud with Robert Woolwine. If you are elected Censor, will you perpetuate your feuds there?

 

Steve

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:48 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Unending dullness

 




Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Lucretio Agricolae salutem dicit

Arguing with Sulla is like arguing with a child; it is a futile and tedious endeavor.  His mental image of the truth is clouded by his own sense of self, and he is incapable (so it would seem) in engaging in dialectic.  It is unfortunate that he perpetuates his own truth; wastes people's time; and, generally clutters up e-mail with his non-sense.  I guess every organization needs a "clown" and he would be ours.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65543 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Have I ever signed any post here in Nova Roma as David Kling?  No, I have not.  It is my preference to be addressed by my Roman name:  Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.  As the first Nova Roman to have been adopted according to our laws I am rather proud of my name and my association with Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.  So please address me as I prefer to be addressed.

To answer your question I have no interest in perpetuating feuds; however, doing nothing while Sulla and company attempt to sling mud at me seems counter intuitive.  At this point I am not perpetuating anything other than a reasonable defense.  If you have a better solution, by all means present it.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:


Dear David,

 

On Monday, you wrote, “There seems to be more merit in putting aside feuds than in perpetuating them”. Here you are, a few days later, perpetuating your feud with Robert Woolwine. If you are elected Censor, will you perpetuate your feuds there?

 

Steve


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65544 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Very witty Caesar, very witty.  "Inconsistency has always been your trademark allied to incomptence."  Ironic that you spelled incompetence wrong, perhaps a Freudian slip to hide your own true nature.  None the less, my trying to convince you otherwise will waste my time and yours. 

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


Caesar Modiano sal.

Strange, only recently you said you cared little for anyone in Nova Roma, or did you forget that too?

Of course you are political Modianus and so am I and everyone else who fights elections, I just don't garb myself in pious disinterest in the process.

Have you figured out? Yes. Don't overestimate yourself, it didn't take very long, you aren't that deep and your record of shifting from one position to the next, one camp to the next, one set of backers to the next speaks volumes. Inconsistency has always been your trademark allied to incomptence.

Optime vale




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65545 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Please post your findings.  I'd be interested in seeing/reading what you have discovered.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:20 AM, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> wrote:


P. Corva M. Hortensie Maior s.p.d.

Thank you so much for starting this thread. :) It's beginning to seem as if 'that crazy time of year' is 'always.'

The only definitely Roman wine I know of that still exists today is Falerno (Falernian). I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm not a connoisseur, unfortunately.

I wonder if the Romans had spumante, or is that a modern invention? I must go look on Google.




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65546 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Caesar Modiano SPD
 
No, just a typo Modinae. As we are on the subject of incompetence, why don't we debate your record as Consul, as we are on the subject of incompetence. I think I could match my small toe against your whole body and still find it the smallest part of hang nail more competent.
 
Optime vale

Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tedious bore

Very witty Caesar, very witty.  "Inconsistency has always been your trademark allied to incomptence."  Ironic that you spelled incompetence wrong, perhaps a Freudian slip to hide your own true nature.  None the less, my trying to convince you otherwise will waste my time and yours. 

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


Caesar Modiano sal.

Strange, only recently you said you cared little for anyone in Nova Roma, or did you forget that too?

Of course you are political Modianus and so am I and everyone else who fights elections, I just don't garb myself in pious disinterest in the process.

Have you figured out? Yes. Don't overestimate yourself, it didn't take very long, you aren't that deep and your record of shifting from one position to the next, one camp to the next, one set of backers to the next speaks volumes. Inconsistency has always been your trademark allied to incomptence.

Optime vale




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65547 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
P. Corva Flaviae Lucillae Merulae s.p.d.

I can well understand why someone might want to create a different Roman organization from NR--So they could discuss Roman history and culture in peace, without the endless politicking and bickering that is pervasive here in Nova Roma.

Fortunately, several organizations for that already exist, so my lazy butt doesn't have to start a new one. (g)

I know the names of two--The Texas-based 'The Roman Way' organization and the 'Societas Via Romana.' I have joined the SVR but have not yet become active in it.

I joined them because they actually looked at their organization, realized what they really wanted from it and what wasn't working toward that goal, and radically changed their administrative structure to conform to their goals. I don't see many organizations willing to do that, these days. It impressed me a great deal.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:

> I'm curious about this. Has he really tried to create other organisations to
> compete with Nova Roma? Why would anyone, let alone a magistrate do that?
> and what is the Libra party? I've never heard od it.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65548 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
I can feel the love in the air :)  LOL. 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


Caesar Modiano SPD
 
No, just a typo Modinae. As we are on the subject of incompetence, why don't we debate your record as Consul, as we are on the subject of incompetence. I think I could match my small toe against your whole body and still find it the smallest part of hang nail more competent.
 
Optime vale



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65549 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Wine
Salve
 
I read an article a few years ago that the Romans invented sparking wines long before anybody else "rediscover" the process.
 
 
http://www.lifeinitaly.com/wines/sparkling.asp
 
Vale
 
Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: aerdensrw@...
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:20:57 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)



P. Corva M. Hortensie Maior s.p.d.

Thank you so much for starting this thread. :) It's beginning to seem as if 'that crazy time of year' is 'always.'

The only definitely Roman wine I know of that still exists today is Falerno (Falernian). I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm not a connoisseur, unfortunately.

I wonder if the Romans had spumante, or is that a modern invention? I must go look on Google.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Maior" <rory12001@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
> anything-but- politics thread.
> Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).
>
> I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
> that the Romans drank?
> optime valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65550 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
You know the answer to that, already.

Xtian pontiffs.
near lawsuit before - most likely to happen again if Modianus because censor
Declining NR organization.
Magistrates and their subordinates who have no respect for the law

Need I go on?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> > Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other
> > organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?
>
> Uh, you yourself are *currently* involved in an effort to create another
> organization that competes with Nova Roma.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that (I'm involved too, peripherally).
>
> But how can you criticize someone else for doing a thing in the past while
> you're doing exactly the same right now?
>
> O.
>
> --
> Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
> author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
> CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65551 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Wine
That would be interesting.

When I was in Israel I had the chance to go to Gethsemane. A very beautiful place that had quite a few wine presses from ancient times. As well as Nazareth. I think I have a couple of pictures posted of the wine presses in Nazareth.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve
>
>
>
> I read an article a few years ago that the Romans invented sparking wines long before anybody else "rediscover" the process.
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.lifeinitaly.com/wines/sparkling.asp
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Paulinus
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: aerdensrw@...
> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:20:57 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> P. Corva M. Hortensie Maior s.p.d.
>
> Thank you so much for starting this thread. :) It's beginning to seem as if 'that crazy time of year' is 'always.'
>
> The only definitely Roman wine I know of that still exists today is Falerno (Falernian). I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm not a connoisseur, unfortunately.
>
> I wonder if the Romans had spumante, or is that a modern invention? I must go look on Google.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete;
> > it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
> > anything-but-politics thread.
> > Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).
> >
> > I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
> > that the Romans drank?
> > optime valete
> > Marca Hortensia Maior
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65552 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Sulla wrote:

> You know the answer to that, already.
>
> Xtian pontiffs.
> near lawsuit before - most likely to happen again if Modianus because censor
> Declining NR organization.
> Magistrates and their subordinates who have no respect for the law
>
> Need I go on?


So, you're in agreement, then, that rampant idiocy and unethical behaviour in NR
is justification for creating a "competing" group?

Stop condemning Modianus, then, for trying four years ago to do exactly the same
thing that you're doing today - forming a mailing list and meeting with friends
to explore a way to keep the Roman dream alive and get it out of the hands of
idiots and lawwankers. The issues that prompted the creation of Pax Deorum
(which never got off the ground) aren't all that different from those which
prompted you to start exploring the possibility of a new group in recent months.

The only difference is which group of people you or he are trying to get away from.

O.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65553 From: wuffa2001 Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
from Wikipedia.

Muscat Blanc à Petits Grains is considered one of the oldest grape varieties still in existence. Ampelographers have identified the grape with the Anathelicon moschaton grape used by the Ancient Greeks and the Apiane vines planted by the Romans (so named because of the fondness that insects, such as bees (Latin apis), have for devouring the flesh of the grapes). It was probably first introduced to France by the Greeks through the trading port at Marseille and later spread to the Narbonne region by Romans in their conquest of Gaul.


MCF






> Salvete;
> it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
> anything-but-politics thread.
> Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).
>
> I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
> that the Romans drank?
> optime valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65554 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Latin Spellchecker
Salve Caeca,

You are very welcome.
Last night another thing about this thread was nagging me *laughs* I meant to say "declension" rather than conjugation, however sleep won over...

Vale
Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65555 From: Jesse Corradino Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
"As we are on the subject of incompetence, why don't we debate your record as Consul, as we are on the subject of incompetence."
 
This is the second time he's incompetently described another's incompetence.  Is no else finding this funny?

 


Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65556 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
After Modianus in action as Consul and Censor, twice stressing that incompetence would be understandable :) - in fact some may ask why only twice?
 
Caesar
 
 
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Jesse Corradino <woden66@...> wrote:

From: Jesse Corradino <woden66@...>
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Tedious bore
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 10:36 AM



"As we are on the subject of incompetence, why don't we debate your record as Consul, as we are on the subject of incompetence."
 
This is the second time he's incompetently described another's incompetence.  Is no else finding this funny?

 


Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65557 From: jorjor1177 Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Roman Tattoos
Salve!

I thought I would share my two tattoos with everyone. Hopefully some of you will enjoy them :). Please take a look


http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/jorjor117/?action=view¤t=013.jpg

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/jorjor117/?action=view¤t=010.jpg
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65558 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Appointing a Censorial Scribe
Ex Officio

Edictum Censor Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

 
Appius Galerius Aurelianus is hereby appointed  a Censorial Scribe.
He will assist with Russian language applicants and other duties as assigned. 
 
II. No oath shall be required.

III. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given this the 20th day  of May 2762 

a.d. XIII Kal. Iun. MMDCCLXII A.U.C.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65559 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salvete omnes,

I offer this hour's selection for your enjoyment!:
TO THE ROMAN PEOPLE.
Horace ODE VII.

Whither, whither, impious men are you rushing? Or why are the swords drawn, that were [so lately] sheathed? Is there too little of Roman blood spilled upon land and sea? [And this,] not that the Romans might burn the proud towers of envious Carthage, or that the Britons, hitherto unassailed, might go down the sacred way bound in chains: but that, agreeably to the wishes of the Parthians, this city may fall by its own might. This custom [of warfare] never obtained even among either wolves or savage lions, unless against a different species. Does blind frenzy, or your superior valor, or some crime, hurry you on at this rate? Give answer. They are silent: and wan paleness infects their countenances, and their stricken souls are stupefied. This is the case: a cruel fatality and the crime of fratricide have disquieted the Romans, from that time when the blood of the innocent Remus, to be expiated by his descendants, was spilled upon the earth.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65560 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Roman Tattoos
Very nice, thanks for posting these.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, jorjor1177 <heavyj501@...> wrote:


Salve!

I thought I would share my two tattoos with everyone. Hopefully some of you will enjoy them :). Please take a look

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/jorjor117/?action=view&current=013.jpg

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/jorjor117/?action=view&current=010.jpg




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65561 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Equestria sal.

How we ended up discussing Cato's false claims about Nova Roma's legal
status in a thread about religion, I am not sure. Though, whenever
Cato is involved, I am also not surprised. So, assuming he was unable
to comprehend my report to the board, I will reiterate my statements
and findings here.

The Maine's Attorney General has thoroughly reviewed the allegations
and determined that there have been no illegalities, and that Nova
Roma was exempt from registering to solicit charitable donations.

On the matter of my filing an "exemption from filing", the case
reviewer understands that I disagree that Nova Roma should have to
file an "exemption from filing" and agrees that we have done nothing
wrong by not filing. Though, since it was a simple form to fill out
and only costs $10, and based on my discussions with her, I decided to
go ahead and "voluntarily" file the form. Doing so, was intended to
satisfy the complainant, though I continue to reserve the right to not
file such exemption in the future.

In an email to the Main List on April 28th, Cato writes:
[start...
I am looking at an email time-stamped 12.14pm this afternoon. It is
from the Attorney General of the State of Maine's Office. It says:
"I will let you know when Nova Roma does come into compliance with the
Charitable Solicitations Act. This may take a little while, because
there is some paperwork that will need to be processed."
...end]

The Maine Attorney General does not have the authority to decide
whether an entity is in compliance with the Maine Charitable
Solicitation Law. Only a state court may decide that. Therefore,
even if the Maine Attorney General sent a letter stating that Nova
Roma was guilty of some illegality (which it has not), that letter
would simply be advice, and not of any legal standing.

Their office has no power to assess any penalty. The Maine Attorney
General may file an action in state court against an entity, but that,
in itself, does not mean that the entity is guilty of anything. A law
that is not enforced or enforceable, is not an active law. In other
words, a law that is not binding, is not valid.

I challenge Cato to find one case in which Maine's Attorney General
either levied a fine for not filing an exemption from filing, or
brought forth an action against a nonprofit in an attempt to force it
to do so. Despite Cato's hopes, dreams, and best efforts to spin this
matter negatively against the corporation and continue his ongoing
campaign of creating public distrust, Nova Roma never violated any law.

I consider the amount of time Cato has allotted to his harmful antics
very telling indeed.

Vale.



On May 19, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> Did you even read what was written by the AG's Office for the State
> of Maine? Where she says she will "let [us] know *when* we are in
> compliance" (emphasis mine)?
>
> I thought not.
>
> And this was written *after* we were told time and time again that
> we already *were* in compliance.
>
> Nice try, though.
>
> Carry on.
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > Did you even read what she posted to the senate? She had done her
> job, Nova
> > Roma wasn't out of compliance, and you wasted our time. Spin it
> any way you
> > feel -- which will certainly be the case -- but the truth remains
> that you
> > wasted a lot of people's time and for what? Why? To discredit our
> > magistrates? You WASTED PEOPLE'S TIME! The irony is that you
> likely really
> > do think you did a good thing, and you keep claiming that what you
> did was
> > for the good of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato
> <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Fabio Modiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve!
> > >
> > > Laeca did what was necessary to finally bring Nova Roma into
> compliance
> > > with legal filing requirements - long after it was claimed
> loudly and
> > > repeatedly that we already were, which as we saw was not true.
> > >
> > > In other words, she did her job.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65562 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Unending dullness
Equestria sal.

I hired an attorney because a board member committed a hostile act
against the corporation by sending a letter to an external authority
reporting fictitious illegalities that concluded with his request that
the Attorney General "disband NR", and that the board member deceived
the board about such letter.

And, to discuss the complaints in the letter especially due to the
suspicion that the board member was attempting to place on the
organization and myself. I asked the attorney to address the board
member's allegations with the case reviewer.

The board member's letter turned out to be completely baseless, and as
expected, no wrongdoing was found.

Vale.




On May 20, 2009, at 12:46 AM, Robert Woolwine wrote:
> HELLO, I did. This is precisely why Iunia got an attorney to FIX IT.
> This is why I was able to post the note dated May 4th listed below.
>
> Did you have a problem understanding the message the attorney sent
> to Mr. Woolwine (myself) dated on May 4th?
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Lucretius Agricola"
> <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine"
> <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Maine AG confirmed I was correct.
> >
> > No they didn't. If anything was illegal, as you claim, just bring
> charges and end this tedious rant. Put up or shut up.
> >
> > Agricola
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65563 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
It is not so much a question of being ethical anymore. I volunteered with the ASPCA for many years and it was something I learned very quickly, especially if you live in a city or urban areas, and that is that it is just not safe to let your cats roam loose as it was say in my mother's or grandmother's time. 
 
It was also pointed out that veterinarians do tell us that our cats will live longer if kept indoors. However, there are dangers in the home that have to be removed if cats are going to live indoors. You just don't toss them inside and that's it.
 
Now many agree with you, but they want to protect their cats, so they invest in special cat-proof fences and fence off a yard or section of a yard and let their cats out into these special areas. It's not ideal, but better to have our cats safe than be sorry later. Not to mention that veterinarian bills are, at least in the US, not something to take lightly. Plus, with so many, many animals in need of good homes, I hate to think of anyone giving up their cats just because they do not like the idea of them being indoors all the time (or at least, most of the time). Better an indoor kitty than a homeless cat.
 
It's a hard compromise. We want our cats to enjoy the great outdoors, but not at the price of their well-being. I guess it depends on where you live. Those living in more rural areas might have less dangers for cats. Living in a city, I would not think of letting my cats outside, not only because of the dangers, but also because some of my neighbors don't want cats on their property. Not everyone is a cat person.
 
I guess Ernest Hemingway had the best solution. He loved his cats and had his home enclosed with a 16 foot high wall, so his cats could have run of the house and yard and there would be no possibility of them getting out. Well, the city will not let me do that, so my cats content themselves with rides in a cat stroller around the garden. They do not seem to mind, just as long as I do all the pushing! LOL
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Tue, 5/19/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 4:14 PM

Salvete,
I don't think it's too ethical for us to take a decision like that for our pets (keeping them indoors at all times).

It all comes down to the question of whether you would like to live 100 days as a sheep or one day as a lion.

We know what Achilles answered to that.

We can't ask cats, but due to their feline nature I can guess most would like to live as lions too.

Going outdoors involves risks, but also infinite possibilities for discovery and adventures, interaction with other animals, etc. All those things that make life interesting.

Life is dangerous. It's a natural instinct to try to guard those you love from its dangers, but one has to be careful that the protective instinct doesn't become stifling.

If it were children involved, how many people would approve of a parent keeping them indoors all the time, guarding them from all possible dangers, but practically taking their freedom away?

Personally, I favour a compromise: I have my cats spayed, so that they are not slaves to their mating instinct, but I have a cat flap, so that they can choose whether to go out or stay inside.
Usually they are just content with their daily patrol of their territory, but I've had cases of cats getting lost in the cellars, and neighbours trying to poison them.
Still, I'd rather give them freedom and take some risks.

Valete,
Livia

>
> Salve,
>
> My cats have always been strictly indoors for the last 25 years. My vet says there is no reason they need to go outside, & they will have longer lives if they are indoors. My oldest two cats are aged 22 (yes, 22!) and 18. Our local animal shelter will not even let anyone adopt a cat unless they sign an agreement to keep it indoors at all times. Blessings to you for rescuing those kitties!
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Atia Coqua
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65564 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salvete Omnes!

Inspiration demands another selection!
LX. TO A DETRACTOR
Martialis Epigrams

Although you bark at me for ever and ever, and weary me with your shameless invectives, I am determined to persist in denying you that fame which you have been so long seeking, namely, that you, such as you are, may be read of in my works throughout the whole world. For why should any one know that you ever existed? You must perish unknown, wretched man; it must be so. Still there will not be wanting in this town perhaps one or two, or three or four, who may like to gnaw a dog's hide. For myself I keep my hands away from such corruption.

Snarl on; you never shall your purpose gain:
What long you seek, you still shall seek m vain,
Who aim at any, rather than no fame:
I will not, to abuse you, use your name.
It never in my writings shall be seen,
Or the world know that such a wretch hath been.
Try to make others angry when you bellow,
I scorn to meddle with a dirty fellow.
Hay.

Vale,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I offer this hour's selection for your enjoyment!:
> TO THE ROMAN PEOPLE.
> Horace ODE VII.
>
> Whither, whither, impious men are you rushing? Or why are the swords drawn, that were [so lately] sheathed? Is there too little of Roman blood spilled upon land and sea? [And this,] not that the Romans might burn the proud towers of envious Carthage, or that the Britons, hitherto unassailed, might go down the sacred way bound in chains: but that, agreeably to the wishes of the Parthians, this city may fall by its own might. This custom [of warfare] never obtained even among either wolves or savage lions, unless against a different species. Does blind frenzy, or your superior valor, or some crime, hurry you on at this rate? Give answer. They are silent: and wan paleness infects their countenances, and their stricken souls are stupefied. This is the case: a cruel fatality and the crime of fratricide have disquieted the Romans, from that time when the blood of the innocent Remus, to be expiated by his descendants, was spilled upon the earth.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65565 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Ah, the dreaded P-word! LOL


--- On Tue, 5/19/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 11:22 PM

Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but- politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65566 From: violetphearsen@yahoo.com Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
I, too, belong to the Roman Way; in fact, I belong to several groups who foster devotion to various deities, interest in ancient cultures, and activities for the real world. Does this make me a "bad" Nova Roman because I do not exclusively belong to just Nova Roma? I don't think so.
 
My allegiance to Nova Roma is not diminished because I talk to another group of people who perhaps love Roman ways but are not part of Nova Roma. Nor does my devotion to the Religio Romana cease just because I take part in a Druid ritual at Pagan Pride Day or chat with a Scandinavian friend about Thor.
 
So what if some Nova Romans belong to other groups that also promote Roman virtues and ways? We do not hold absolute dominion over all things Roman, past or present.
 
I agree with Agricola. Spread the love of Rome wherever you can. The more, the merrier.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> wrote:

From: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 5:58 AM

P. Corva Flaviae Lucillae Merulae s.p.d.

I can well understand why someone might want to create a different Roman organization from NR--So they could discuss Roman history and culture in peace, without the endless politicking and bickering that is pervasive here in Nova Roma.

Fortunately, several organizations for that already exist, so my lazy butt doesn't have to start a new one. (g)

I know the names of two--The Texas-based 'The Roman Way' organization and the 'Societas Via Romana.' I have joined the SVR but have not yet become active in it.

I joined them because they actually looked at their organization, realized what they really wanted from it and what wasn't working toward that goal, and radically changed their administrative structure to conform to their goals. I don't see many organizations willing to do that, these days. It impressed me a great deal.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfa n@...> wrote:

> I'm curious about this. Has he really tried to create other organisations to
> compete with Nova Roma? Why would anyone, let alone a magistrate do that?
> and what is the Libra party? I've never heard od it.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65567 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
In answer to both your questions, yes.
 
But I can't recall the info.
 
And it was the Pythagoreans of Sicily
that appear to have invented sparkling wine --
accidentally -- because of the naturally
carbonated mineral waters.

--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:

From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 6:20 PM

Ah, the dreaded P-word! LOL


--- On Tue, 5/19/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] the anything-but- poliitics thread;-)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 11:22 PM

Salvete;
it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
anything-but- politics thread.
Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).

I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
that the Romans drank?
optime valete
Marca Hortensia Maior



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65568 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
In a message dated 5/20/2009 7:14:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hucke@... writes:
So, you're in agreement, then, that rampant idiocy and unethical behaviour in NR
is justification for creating a "competing" group?
First off, I for one am not interested in a competing group.  We fix NR or it falls apart.
 
Second, why are you supporting this man?  I am at a loss here.  His term will be illegal there was no break between the Censor terms of his and Laenus. 
 
I'm really disappointed.
 
Fabius
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65569 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Salvé, et Salvéte,

The image of our Vestal walking her cat in her stroller is marvelous.*laughs*

There are some pressing medical reasons for not allowing cats to roam. First I must say I understand Livia on this issue, it is so natural for a cat to roam, hunt and explore. I will not own cats while living in the city or even in the country unless it is a remote area because I believe cats should have some freedom.

In the 80's my children had twin cats, Spike and Gizmo, they were indoor/outdoor cats and when we lived in the country they were healthy. A year after we moved to the city Spike had a seizure and when we took him to the vet we were told he had feline AIDS. This is highly virulent, common in my area and can be transmitted very easilyÂ…simply by another feline walking through an infected cat's urine or feces. It is painful; there are painful sores, seizures and a myriad of problems. The cost to treat such an animal is the same as it is to treat a human, astronomical. Pet insurance does not cover it. It is insidious, develops rapidly and much more humane to euthanize the animal. Look it up to see how prevalent it is in your area.

In the 90's I lived on three secluded fenced acres and our second set of twins, Samir and Khalid, thrived. My Lab Petra, who was their best friend also, kept other cats away but we were surrounded by unused acreage with a stream bordering the property. Khalid still lives on there with the new family and Samir has adopted another family and both are healthy and happy and old. At any rate I could not see putting Samir in a stroller, Khalid maybe;)

Valé, et valéte

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65570 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salvete Omnes!

Wish we had more Ennius!
"When discord dreadful bursts the brazen bars,
And shatters iron locks to thunder forth her wars."
Attributed to Ennius per Horace

Valete,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> Inspiration demands another selection!
> LX. TO A DETRACTOR
> Martialis Epigrams
>
> Although you bark at me for ever and ever, and weary me with your shameless invectives, I am determined to persist in denying you that fame which you have been so long seeking, namely, that you, such as you are, may be read of in my works throughout the whole world. For why should any one know that you ever existed? You must perish unknown, wretched man; it must be so. Still there will not be wanting in this town perhaps one or two, or three or four, who may like to gnaw a dog's hide. For myself I keep my hands away from such corruption.
>
> Snarl on; you never shall your purpose gain:
> What long you seek, you still shall seek m vain,
> Who aim at any, rather than no fame:
> I will not, to abuse you, use your name.
> It never in my writings shall be seen,
> Or the world know that such a wretch hath been.
> Try to make others angry when you bellow,
> I scorn to meddle with a dirty fellow.
> Hay.
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I offer this hour's selection for your enjoyment!:
> > TO THE ROMAN PEOPLE.
> > Horace ODE VII.
> >
> > Whither, whither, impious men are you rushing? Or why are the swords drawn, that were [so lately] sheathed? Is there too little of Roman blood spilled upon land and sea? [And this,] not that the Romans might burn the proud towers of envious Carthage, or that the Britons, hitherto unassailed, might go down the sacred way bound in chains: but that, agreeably to the wishes of the Parthians, this city may fall by its own might. This custom [of warfare] never obtained even among either wolves or savage lions, unless against a different species. Does blind frenzy, or your superior valor, or some crime, hurry you on at this rate? Give answer. They are silent: and wan paleness infects their countenances, and their stricken souls are stupefied. This is the case: a cruel fatality and the crime of fratricide have disquieted the Romans, from that time when the blood of the innocent Remus, to be expiated by his descendants, was spilled upon the earth.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65571 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Cn. Iulius Caesar SPD

These are some interesting cases. Many relate to incomplete information on registration applications, I think one realtes to actual non-registration in Maine and soliciting for funds. I didn't dig too deep for other examples in the database but I am sure they are there.

http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/attach.php?id=55038&an=1

http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/attach.php?id=62105&an=1

which are a sample I picked from others:

http://www.maine.gov/pfr/professionallicensing/professions/charitable/discipline_alpha_index.shtml

Note, though these are Consent Agreements, filed with a court to give them the force of a legal consent order, which the Maine AG could then enforce in the event that the offending corporation failed to abide by its terms, note the wording that the offending party agrees to accept a fine.

It seems logical that most non-profits caught not filing, not completing forms properly do get forced into compliance by the Maine AG rather than go to trial, and that they accept a fine...or so this public record seems to indicate. The mechanism for the fine is an agreement, entered into to avoid prosecution and filed at court. Pretty standard stuff.

Optime valete


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, D. Boyle <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:

> From: D. Boyle <deandreaboyle@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 12:04 PM
> Equestria sal.
>
> I challenge Cato to find one case in which Maine's Attorney
> General 
> either levied a fine for not filing an exemption from
> filing, or 
> brought forth an action against a nonprofit in an attempt
> to force it 
> to do so.  Despite Cato's hopes, dreams, and best
> efforts to spin this 
> matter negatively against the corporation and continue his
> ongoing 
> campaign of creating public distrust, Nova Roma never
> violated any law.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65572 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
 
Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:44 AM

Salvé, et Salvéte,

The image of our Vestal walking her cat in her stroller is marvelous.*laughs*

There are some pressing medical reasons for not allowing cats to roam. First I must say I understand Livia on this issue, it is so natural for a cat to roam, hunt and explore. I will not own cats while living in the city or even in the country unless it is a remote area because I believe cats should have some freedom.

In the 80's my children had twin cats, Spike and Gizmo, they were indoor/outdoor cats and when we lived in the country they were healthy. A year after we moved to the city Spike had a seizure and when we took him to the vet we were told he had feline AIDS. This is highly virulent, common in my area and can be transmitted very easily…simply by another feline walking through an infected cat's urine or feces. It is painful; there are painful sores, seizures and a myriad of problems. The cost to treat such an animal is the same as it is to treat a human, astronomical. Pet insurance does not cover it. It is insidious, develops rapidly and much more humane to euthanize the animal. Look it up to see how prevalent it is in your area.

In the 90's I lived on three secluded fenced acres and our second set of twins, Samir and Khalid, thrived. My Lab Petra, who was their best friend also, kept other cats away but we were surrounded by unused acreage with a stream bordering the property. Khalid still lives on there with the new family and Samir has adopted another family and both are healthy and happy and old. At any rate I could not see putting Samir in a stroller, Khalid maybe;)

Valé, et valéte

Julia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65573 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Salve Armini,
thanks a lot for the link!

This comic is great! While the story is sometimes hard to follow, all the details are incredibly historically correct.
This guy must have an archaologist as an advisor, or else he has done huge research work, because everything is perfect, from the women's clothes, to the household wares. The streets in Pompeii are recognizable, and so are some of the buildings.

I'm awed!

Vale,
Livia



>
>
> Salvete
>
>
> An interesting webcomic, about the life and misadventures of a certain M. Felix in the times of Vespasianus.
>
> http://spqrblues.com/d/20051120.html
>
>
> Vale
> M. Arminius
>
>
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65574 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
> First off, I for one am not interested in a competing group. We fix NR or
> it falls apart.

A perfectly valid position, to be sure, but some have been hoping for a fix for
years, and are considering alternatives. Nothing wrong with either approach.

> Second, why are you supporting this man?

Because he's being unfairly attacked, for considering founding another group
about five years ago; all the more bizarre when the person attacking him for
this has been discussing starting another group within the past few *weeks*.

> I'm really disappointed.

I have informed both candidates that I will not be voting at all in this
election.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65575 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
(I forget to add that the care of feral cat colonies is a whole another situation.)

--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:

From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 12:18 PM

Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
 
Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:44 AM

Salvé, et Salvéte,

The image of our Vestal walking her cat in her stroller is marvelous.*laughs*

There are some pressing medical reasons for not allowing cats to roam. First I must say I understand Livia on this issue, it is so natural for a cat to roam, hunt and explore. I will not own cats while living in the city or even in the country unless it is a remote area because I believe cats should have some freedom.

In the 80's my children had twin cats, Spike and Gizmo, they were indoor/outdoor cats and when we lived in the country they were healthy. A year after we moved to the city Spike had a seizure and when we took him to the vet we were told he had feline AIDS. This is highly virulent, common in my area and can be transmitted very easily…simply by another feline walking through an infected cat's urine or feces. It is painful; there are painful sores, seizures and a myriad of problems. The cost to treat such an animal is the same as it is to treat a human, astronomical. Pet insurance does not cover it. It is insidious, develops rapidly and much more humane to euthanize the animal. Look it up to see how prevalent it is in your area.

In the 90's I lived on three secluded fenced acres and our second set of twins, Samir and Khalid, thrived. My Lab Petra, who was their best friend also, kept other cats away but we were surrounded by unused acreage with a stream bordering the property. Khalid still lives on there with the new family and Samir has adopted another family and both are healthy and happy and old. At any rate I could not see putting Samir in a stroller, Khalid maybe;)

Valé, et valéte

Julia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65576 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Maximae Valeriae Messallinae salutem dicit

Just a few minutes ago I looked out the window, here at work (I work on campus at the school I attend), and saw a doe and her baby.  I've never seen a baby deer up close, and I must confess that it was too cute for words.  It could walk, but did so awkwardly,  and must have only been a week or so old.  I would say seeing a doe and her calf in the middle of day is fairly auspicious.

I mention it because it seems like something you would appreciate.

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:


Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
 
Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65577 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
So Octavius, what would be a valid form of criticism?

That resigning is honorable (Laenas) but having to leave a position abruptly for surgery is not (me)?

Or should we talk about public morality - an office that the censorship has a responsibility to serve? Can we talk about that. Because there are photos of Modianus floating around that do not speak well to his judgment not to mention a total lack of dignitas. Is that an appropriate topic for someone who is empowered to administer public morality - allow such photos to be taken and THEN published?

This from a person who has consistently shown poor judgment.

Vale,

Sulla


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> > First off, I for one am not interested in a competing group. We fix NR or
> > it falls apart.
>
> A perfectly valid position, to be sure, but some have been hoping for a fix for
> years, and are considering alternatives. Nothing wrong with either approach.
>
> > Second, why are you supporting this man?
>
> Because he's being unfairly attacked, for considering founding another group
> about five years ago; all the more bizarre when the person attacking him for
> this has been discussing starting another group within the past few *weeks*.
>
> > I'm really disappointed.
>
> I have informed both candidates that I will not be voting at all in this
> election.
>
> --
> Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
> author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
> CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65578 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
> So Octavius, what would be a valid form of criticism?
>
> That resigning is honorable (Laenas) but having to leave a position abruptly for surgery is not (me)?

Eh? I never said leaving your position for surgery was dishonourable, and certainly
am not of that opinion. I have no idea why you're bringing that up.

> Is that an appropriate topic for someone who is empowered to administer
> public morality - allow such photos to be taken and THEN published?

Don't know, don't care. I'm just asking you to not attack him for almost starting
a NR-like project, several years ago, when you're doing something very similar right
now. It's a rather silly thing to be doing.

O.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65579 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Salvé Maxima Valeria,

You have brought a smile to my face the laughter you bring me is courtesy of my imagination which includes a pair of Roman Vestals in Pallæ and the cats in togulæ strolling along. Wonderful image, I might put it on canvas or maybe in clay someday!

Feral cats another issue. When I was a home RN clinician I would travel further out in the country, the boonies really, where people would dump their unwanted kittens and dogs, my youngest son, who I often took with me, had a natural knack for all animals and developed a way with feral kittens. Later when he got a little older he would bring home abandoned animals (all kinds including "damn goat") including feral kittens he found. He had success with hand feeding and petting many of the kittens, a good percentage became adoptable.
Takes a lot of dedication.
Your work with such animals is commendable.
I have had many animals throughout the years and with the exception of my childhood dog, they were all adopted, the dogs mostly purebreds, even a Hungarian Vizsla (one of the most gorgeous animals I have ever seen), with the exception of a raccoon and white barn owl that adopted me. *laugh*
There are so many great animals that need a good home.

Valé,
Julia



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
> (I forget to add that the care of feral cat colonies is a whole another situation.)
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 12:18 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
>  
> Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>  
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:44 AM
>
>
>
>
> Salvé, et Salvéte,
>
> The image of our Vestal walking her cat in her stroller is marvelous.*laughs*
>
> There are some pressing medical reasons for not allowing cats to roam. First I must say I understand Livia on this issue, it is so natural for a cat to roam, hunt and explore. I will not own cats while living in the city or even in the country unless it is a remote area because I believe cats should have some freedom.
>
> In the 80's my children had twin cats, Spike and Gizmo, they were indoor/outdoor cats and when we lived in the country they were healthy. A year after we moved to the city Spike had a seizure and when we took him to the vet we were told he had feline AIDS. This is highly virulent, common in my area and can be transmitted very easily…simply by another feline walking through an infected cat's urine or feces. It is painful; there are painful sores, seizures and a myriad of problems. The cost to treat such an animal is the same as it is to treat a human, astronomical. Pet insurance does not cover it. It is insidious, develops rapidly and much more humane to euthanize the animal. Look it up to see how prevalent it is in your area.
>
> In the 90's I lived on three secluded fenced acres and our second set of twins, Samir and Khalid, thrived. My Lab Petra, who was their best friend also, kept other cats away but we were surrounded by unused acreage with a stream bordering the property. Khalid still lives on there with the new family and Samir has adopted another family and both are healthy and happy and old. At any rate I could not see putting Samir in a stroller, Khalid maybe;)
>
> Valé, et valéte
>
> Julia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65580 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens

Salve, Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
And ... do you have little bullas (I think that's right, the amulets babies and children wore) ready for them?  Of course, *attaching* them, and keeping them on, and undamaged may be a challenge few Roman mothers *ever* faced, LOL!
 
Vale et valete,
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65581 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> > So Octavius, what would be a valid form of criticism?
> >
> > That resigning is honorable (Laenas) but having to leave a position abruptly for surgery is not (me)?
>
> Eh? I never said leaving your position for surgery was dishonourable, and certainly
> am not of that opinion. I have no idea why you're bringing that up.
>
> > Is that an appropriate topic for someone who is empowered to administer
> > public morality - allow such photos to be taken and THEN published?
>
> Don't know, don't care. I'm just asking you to not attack him for almost starting
> a NR-like project, several years ago, when you're doing something very similar right
> now. It's a rather silly thing to be doing.

Octavius is right. Modianus has had much more recent lapses of judgment and done real harm to Nova Roma far more recently--such as his "suit" against Cincinnatus last year. Concentrate on things such that, rather than old issues that never came to fruition.

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65582 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
I'm feeling the love!  It seems all my "friends" are coming out to say hello.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:


Octavius is right. Modianus has had much more recent lapses of judgment and done real harm to Nova Roma far more recently--such as his "suit" against Cincinnatus last year. Concentrate on things such that, rather than old issues that never came to fruition.

Palladius

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65583 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salve Julia,
this is a very nice epigram, but it would be nice to have the original version too.
In Italy it's a custom to publish poetry (when translated) only with the original text in front, whether it be Latin, Greek, French or Armenian.

The idea is that there are so many aspects of a work of poetry which can only be enjoyed in the original language, and even if the reader doesn't know it, they can have a feel for the rythm, the assonances, etc.

Don't you people have bilongual editions out there in the US?

Vale,
Livia


>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> Inspiration demands another selection!
> LX. TO A DETRACTOR
> Martialis Epigrams
>
> Although you bark at me for ever and ever, and weary me with your shameless invectives, I am determined to persist in denying you that fame which you have been so long seeking, namely, that you, such as you are, may be read of in my works throughout the whole world. For why should any one know that you ever existed? You must perish unknown, wretched man; it must be so. Still there will not be wanting in this town perhaps one or two, or three or four, who may like to gnaw a dog's hide. For myself I keep my hands away from such corruption.
>
> Snarl on; you never shall your purpose gain:
> What long you seek, you still shall seek m vain,
> Who aim at any, rather than no fame:
> I will not, to abuse you, use your name.
> It never in my writings shall be seen,
> Or the world know that such a wretch hath been.
> Try to make others angry when you bellow,
> I scorn to meddle with a dirty fellow.
> Hay.
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > I offer this hour's selection for your enjoyment!:
> > TO THE ROMAN PEOPLE.
> > Horace ODE VII.
> >
> > Whither, whither, impious men are you rushing? Or why are the swords drawn, that were [so lately] sheathed? Is there too little of Roman blood spilled upon land and sea? [And this,] not that the Romans might burn the proud towers of envious Carthage, or that the Britons, hitherto unassailed, might go down the sacred way bound in chains: but that, agreeably to the wishes of the Parthians, this city may fall by its own might. This custom [of warfare] never obtained even among either wolves or savage lions, unless against a different species. Does blind frenzy, or your superior valor, or some crime, hurry you on at this rate? Give answer. They are silent: and wan paleness infects their countenances, and their stricken souls are stupefied. This is the case: a cruel fatality and the crime of fratricide have disquieted the Romans, from that time when the blood of the innocent Remus, to be expiated by his descendants, was spilled upon the earth.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65584 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Cato Equestriae sal.

Salve!

Just so you understand - which you might have if you'd read the whole thread instead of simply hopping in to erroneously castigate me - it was actually your friend Modianus who started in on the whole legal status bit, so you can aim your laser-sharp wit in his direction.

Vale!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Equestria sal.
>
> How we ended up discussing Cato's false claims about Nova Roma's legal
> status in a thread about religion, I am not sure. Though, whenever
> Cato is involved, I am also not surprised.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65585 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Cato Maximae Valeriae Iuliae Aquilae SPD

Salvete!

I was noticing today on the way home that there seem to be very few feral animals - either cats or dogs - here, at least noticeably.

Aside from my visit to the wilderness (where there were bears of enormous ferocity and cunning - so cunning that they did not actually let me see them yet I knew they were simply biding their time) my experience of fauna tends to be of rats, both the earthbound and the winged kind. Those and the little yippy dogs that might as well qualify as rats.

There *is*, however, a pair of hawks dividing their time between the brownstones of Fifth Avenue and Central Park West (equal opportunity hoity-toity-ness). When I was counting trees as a volunteer for the Parks Dept., I used to see them circling above me as I walked through Central Park, and it was pretty cool. To them, though, I probably looked like ambulatory food.

Valete!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65586 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

I responded that you wasted people's time AFTER you posted this:

"I did ask our magistrates to address the situation; I did point out exactly why and how I felt Nova Roman law was being abrogated. You saw the results: stony silence, charges of laesa patriae, and being told basically to sit down and shut up."

I responded after you brought it up in a diatribe of yours against Marca Hortensia Maior; therefore, Equestria's laser sharp wit was well aimed.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
 
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:


Cato Equestriae sal.

Salve!

Just so you understand - which you might have if you'd read the whole thread instead of simply hopping in to erroneously castigate me - it was actually your friend Modianus who started in on the whole legal status bit, so you can aim your laser-sharp wit in his direction.

Vale!

Cato


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65587 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Maine Attorney General (was: Orthopraxy)
Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve!

I was taking about a whole host of *other* violations of the law - and that's just Nova Roman law. There have been so many I know it's hard to keep track, but try to keep on schedule.

Vale!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> I responded that you wasted people's time AFTER you posted this:
>
> "I did ask our magistrates to address the situation; I did point out exactly
> why and how I felt Nova Roman law was being abrogated. You saw the results:
> stony silence, charges of laesa patriae, and being told basically to sit
> down and shut up."
>
> I responded after you brought it up in a diatribe of yours against Marca
> Hortensia Maior; therefore, Equestria's laser sharp wit was well aimed.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Equestriae sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Just so you understand - which you might have if you'd read the whole
> > thread instead of simply hopping in to erroneously castigate me - it was
> > actually your friend Modianus who started in on the whole legal status bit,
> > so you can aim your laser-sharp wit in his direction.
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65590 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
P. Corva L. Liviae Plautae s.p.d.

Klio also has a Livejournal that you might like to read. She posts SPQR Blues from there, as well: http://meritahut.livejournal.com/

If you get the chance, it's fun to read SPQR Blues from the very beginning. I think she's in chapter 4 or 5 now. It's definitey fun to read.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Armini,
> thanks a lot for the link!
>
> This comic is great! While the story is sometimes hard to follow, all the details are incredibly historically correct.
> This guy must have an archaologist as an advisor, or else he has done huge research work, because everything is perfect, from the women's clothes, to the household wares. The streets in Pompeii are recognizable, and so are some of the buildings.
>
> I'm awed!
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> >
> > An interesting webcomic, about the life and misadventures of a certain M. Felix in the times of Vespasianus.
> >
> > http://spqrblues.com/d/20051120.html
> >
> >
> > Vale
> > M. Arminius
> >
> >
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65591 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore

David,

 

Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF, which is an example of one of these other organizations?

 

Steve

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore

 




Salve:

Oh, you have me so figured out don't you!  LOL!

If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed.  Do I care about Nova Roma?  Certainly.  Do I care deeply about certain people in Nova Roma?  Absolutely.  Do I "collect" titles as you, and others, so vehemently accuse me of?  No.  Anyone who is active in Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing things.

You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone.  There are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have spoken to many times on the telephone.  These individuals know me best.  You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.

I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.  I've been in Nova Roma for seven years.  I've been active in Nova Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices.  Yet you paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal opportunist.  You are so far from the truth in your assertions of me.  But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your candidate.  And you call me political!

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@ yahoo.com> wrote:

 

It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one organization to the nex

 

Your shabby record stands for itself. ..

 

Vale.

Cn. Iulius Caesar

 

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65592 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Weight Loss
P. Corva Modiane s.p.d.

Congratulations on the weight loss! I could wish my husband would take a cue from you, and I need to do the same.

What do you eat for carbs in lieu of the pasta, potatoes, etc?


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> Damn! I was fat in those photos. I weighed 310 lbs there, and in the past
> couple of months I've lost 46 lbs and have radically changed my diet (no
> pasta, no potatoes, no bread, and of course no junk food) eating more fruit
> and whole foods and hitting the gym every day.

(snipped)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65593 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.

In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.

Vale.



On May 20, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Steve Moore wrote:
> David,
> Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF,
> which is an example of one of these other organizations?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of David Kling
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
>
> Salve:
>
> Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
>
> If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my
> involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I
> care about Nova Roma? Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain
> people in Nova Roma? Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and
> others, so vehemently accuse me of? No. Anyone who is active in
> Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing
> things.
>
> You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There
> are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have
> spoken to many times on the telephone. These individuals know me
> best. You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will
> paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.
>
> I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.
> I've been in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova
> Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices. Yet you
> paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal
> opportunist. You are so far from the truth in your assertions of
> me. But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do
> whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your
> candidate. And you call me political!
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it
> always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and
> you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one
> organization to the nex
>
>
>
> Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
> Cn. Iulius Caesar
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65594 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
P. Corva Potite s.d.

I think that was out of line.

I would be interested in reading a rational, intelligent discussion of NR's corporate compliance. But all I've seen so far is days and days of name-calling and sly insults being volleyed back and forth. If that's supposed to be considered 'adult,' I must have a way different definition of adult behavior than you have.

(Except for the person who posted the actual text of the communication from the Maine Attorney General's office. That, I appreciated. It was the one piece of information I could use to form an opinion.)

So, in lieu of a useful discussion of corporate compliance, I am quite happy to talk about wine, as I know more about drinking it than I do about its history.

I came to Nova Roma because I was interested in history, not in internal politics.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:

> Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate
> compliance, the law, and the future of NR.
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Potitus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65595 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore

M. Valerius Potitus Eq. Iunia Laeca SPD.

 

In Nova Roma we do not address each other by our praenomens unless we are family, close friends, or lovers. Since you are none of the above, I ask that you respect the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.

 

Meanwhile, let Modianus speak for himself.

 

 

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of D. Boyle
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:07 PM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore

 




Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.

In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.

Vale.

On May 20, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Steve Moore wrote:
> David,
> Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF,
> which is an example of one of these other organizations?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com] On
> Behalf Of David Kling
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
>
> Salve:
>
> Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
>
> If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my
> involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I
> care about Nova Roma? Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain
> people in Nova Roma? Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and
> others, so vehemently accuse me of? No. Anyone who is active in
> Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing
> things.
>
> You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There
> are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have
> spoken to many times on the telephone. These individuals know me
> best. You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will
> paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.
>
> I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.
> I've been in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova
> Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices. Yet you
> paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal
> opportunist. You are so far from the truth in your assertions of
> me. But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do
> whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your
> candidate. And you call me political!
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@ yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it
> always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and
> you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one
> organization to the nex
>
>
>
> Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
> Cn. Iulius Caesar

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65596 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Ave,

I wrote a long dissertation on how Nova Roma is out of compliance in regards to section 602 and section 603 of the Maine Not Profit act - and it was one of my concerns that I addressed with the Maine AG.

They responded that yes, they felt that NR was out of complainance in regards to those matters but conflicts in regards to bylaws must be resolved via private individual lawsuit, against the corporation (Linda Conti - Assistant Attorney General of Maine).

I will repost that message for you.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
>
> P. Corva Potite s.d.
>
> I think that was out of line.
>
> I would be interested in reading a rational, intelligent discussion of NR's corporate compliance. But all I've seen so far is days and days of name-calling and sly insults being volleyed back and forth. If that's supposed to be considered 'adult,' I must have a way different definition of adult behavior than you have.
>
> (Except for the person who posted the actual text of the communication from the Maine Attorney General's office. That, I appreciated. It was the one piece of information I could use to form an opinion.)
>
> So, in lieu of a useful discussion of corporate compliance, I am quite happy to talk about wine, as I know more about drinking it than I do about its history.
>
> I came to Nova Roma because I was interested in history, not in internal politics.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate
> > compliance, the law, and the future of NR.
> >
> >
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Potitus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65597 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Ave Conscript Fathers,

In my never ending research I have come across a very serious issue that Nova Roma's board directors needs to address in all due haste.

According to Section 602 and 603 Nova Roma has never fully been in compliance with these sections which in a nutshell require us (NR) to notify all members who have voting eligibility of the elections of officers:

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/13-B/title13-Bsec603.html

1. Written notice of meetings. Unless otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws, written notice stating the place, day and hour of the meeting and, in case of a special meeting, the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called, shall be delivered not less than 10 nor more than 50 days before the date of the meeting, either personally or by mail, by or at the direction of the president or the secretary, or the officers or persons calling the meeting, to each member entitled to vote at such meeting. If mailed, such notice shall be deemed to be delivered when deposited in the United States mail addressed to the member at his address as it appears on the records of the corporation, with postage thereon prepaid.

So, given our lack of specificity in our bylaws - NR needed to provide written notification to each member who has the ability to vote. What NR has essentially created is a new class of member a third class if you will - those who are able to receive email (the first and second class are the Assidui/nonAssidui class). This also goes to notifications about dues and votes in general - such notification, per Maine Law - must be done in writing and thusly via surface mail.

The other issue is the lack of an annual meeting which must be duly advertised. Thusly, by failure to be in compliant with sectino 603 - we become automatically non-complaint per section 602.2 which states:

2. Annual meetings. A meeting shall be held annually at such time as may be provided in the articles of incorporation or bylaws. If there shall be a failure, for whatever reason, to hold the annual meeting for a period of 30 days after the date for such meeting specified in the bylaws or articles of incorporation, or if no date has been specified, for a period of 13 months after the organization of the corporation or after its last annual meeting, a substitute annual meeting may be called by any person or persons entitled to call a special meeting of the members.

While we can hold elections for our magistrates during the annual meeting we have failed to uphold issues of fidicuary duty in that NR has failed to disclose its annual reports and to allow access to said information to our membership -as stated in Section 1620

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/13-C/title13-Csec1620.html

In this I am going to disclose the entire statute:

1. Financial statements. No later than 5 months after the close of each fiscal year, each corporation that is not a close corporation shall prepare annual financial statements, which may be consolidated or combined statements of the corporation and one or more of its subsidiaries, as appropriate, that include a balance sheet as of the end of the fiscal year, an income statement for that year, and a statement of changes in shareholders' equity for the year unless that information appears elsewhere in the financial statements. If financial statements are prepared for the corporation on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles, the annual financial statements must also be prepared on that basis.
[ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
2. Written demand for copy of financial statement. Upon written demand of any shareholder of a corporation, the corporation shall mail to that shareholder a copy of the most recent annual financial statement prepared in accordance with subsection 1. If the annual financial statement is reported upon by a public accountant, the accountant's report must accompany it. If the annual financial statement is not reported upon by a public accountant, the statement must be accompanied by a statement of the president or the person responsible for the corporation's accounting records:
A. Stating the reporter's reasonable belief whether the statement was prepared on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles and, if not, describing the basis of preparation; and [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
B. Describing any respects in which the statement was not prepared on a basis of accounting consistent with the statement prepared for the preceding year. [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
[ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
3. Restrictions on disclosure of financial statement. The articles of incorporation or bylaws of a corporation may impose reasonable restrictions regarding the disclosure of financial information as a condition to delivery of an annual financial statement to a shareholder in accordance with this section.

With all due respect - Nova Roma needs to get it's corporate house in order. We need to make sure that we are in compliance with all laws and regulations and there is no better time than the present to begin work in that regards. The elections are not a substitution to the annual meeting!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
>
> P. Corva Potite s.d.
>
> I think that was out of line.
>
> I would be interested in reading a rational, intelligent discussion of NR's corporate compliance. But all I've seen so far is days and days of name-calling and sly insults being volleyed back and forth. If that's supposed to be considered 'adult,' I must have a way different definition of adult behavior than you have.
>
> (Except for the person who posted the actual text of the communication from the Maine Attorney General's office. That, I appreciated. It was the one piece of information I could use to form an opinion.)
>
> So, in lieu of a useful discussion of corporate compliance, I am quite happy to talk about wine, as I know more about drinking it than I do about its history.
>
> I came to Nova Roma because I was interested in history, not in internal politics.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate
> > compliance, the law, and the future of NR.
> >
> >
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Potitus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65598 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Oh, CRIPES! I've just dragged politics into it. *winces*

Mea maxima culpa. But I really had to say something. I promsie to go back to talking about wine, now. :P

P. Corva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65599 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Cato Equestriae sal.

Salve!

Ah. As Galerius Aurelianus did when he told me, here in the Forum, using his macronational name, to write to you using my macronational name? As certain members of the Senate have of late when they wanted to appear "official", as if their Roman names were not sufficient - to which I responded in the Senate:

"I am once again disturbed by the use of macronational names, as if our Roman names do not suffice. This gives the idea that we are in a role-playing game.

The Constitution - which is our legal bylaws - explains how this House is identical to the Board of Directors and explains the basis for our use of Roman nomenclature (familiae, gentes, etc.). As our adoption of Roman names and titles for conducting business within the corporation does not, in any way, violate any macronational law, there is no need to drop them to make us sound more 'official'."

Yet you voiced no objection on any of these occasions.

Carry on.

Vale!

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.
>
> In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65600 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
When was that law passed?

Anyone can address me as either Sulla, my full Roman name or Robert Woolwine. (They certainly have enjoyed using my full legal name in the Senate! LOL).

Even the Cartman joke that Modianus came up with was Funny.

Remember we have used our legal names in the Senate, just lighten up.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.
>
> In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
> Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
> not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
> citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
> On May 20, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Steve Moore wrote:
> > David,
> > Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF,
> > which is an example of one of these other organizations?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of David Kling
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
> >
> > Salve:
> >
> > Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
> >
> > If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my
> > involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I
> > care about Nova Roma? Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain
> > people in Nova Roma? Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and
> > others, so vehemently accuse me of? No. Anyone who is active in
> > Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing
> > things.
> >
> > You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There
> > are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have
> > spoken to many times on the telephone. These individuals know me
> > best. You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will
> > paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.
> >
> > I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.
> > I've been in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova
> > Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices. Yet you
> > paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal
> > opportunist. You are so far from the truth in your assertions of
> > me. But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do
> > whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your
> > candidate. And you call me political!
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it
> > always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and
> > you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one
> > organization to the nex
> >
> >
> >
> > Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> > Cn. Iulius Caesar
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65601 From: aerdensrw Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
Thank you! :) This, at least, is somthing objective that can be looked at and discussed.

P. Corva

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Conscript Fathers,
>
> In my never ending research I have come across a very serious issue that Nova Roma's board directors needs to address in all due haste.
>
> According to Section 602 and 603 Nova Roma has never fully been in compliance with these sections which in a nutshell require us (NR) to notify all members who have voting eligibility of the elections of officers:
>
> http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/13-B/title13-Bsec603.html
>
> 1. Written notice of meetings. Unless otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws, written notice stating the place, day and hour of the meeting and, in case of a special meeting, the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called, shall be delivered not less than 10 nor more than 50 days before the date of the meeting, either personally or by mail, by or at the direction of the president or the secretary, or the officers or persons calling the meeting, to each member entitled to vote at such meeting. If mailed, such notice shall be deemed to be delivered when deposited in the United States mail addressed to the member at his address as it appears on the records of the corporation, with postage thereon prepaid.
>
> So, given our lack of specificity in our bylaws - NR needed to provide written notification to each member who has the ability to vote. What NR has essentially created is a new class of member a third class if you will - those who are able to receive email (the first and second class are the Assidui/nonAssidui class). This also goes to notifications about dues and votes in general - such notification, per Maine Law - must be done in writing and thusly via surface mail.
>
> The other issue is the lack of an annual meeting which must be duly advertised. Thusly, by failure to be in compliant with sectino 603 - we become automatically non-complaint per section 602.2 which states:
>
> 2. Annual meetings. A meeting shall be held annually at such time as may be provided in the articles of incorporation or bylaws. If there shall be a failure, for whatever reason, to hold the annual meeting for a period of 30 days after the date for such meeting specified in the bylaws or articles of incorporation, or if no date has been specified, for a period of 13 months after the organization of the corporation or after its last annual meeting, a substitute annual meeting may be called by any person or persons entitled to call a special meeting of the members.
>
> While we can hold elections for our magistrates during the annual meeting we have failed to uphold issues of fidicuary duty in that NR has failed to disclose its annual reports and to allow access to said information to our membership -as stated in Section 1620
>
> http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/13-C/title13-Csec1620.html
>
> In this I am going to disclose the entire statute:
>
> 1. Financial statements. No later than 5 months after the close of each fiscal year, each corporation that is not a close corporation shall prepare annual financial statements, which may be consolidated or combined statements of the corporation and one or more of its subsidiaries, as appropriate, that include a balance sheet as of the end of the fiscal year, an income statement for that year, and a statement of changes in shareholders' equity for the year unless that information appears elsewhere in the financial statements. If financial statements are prepared for the corporation on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles, the annual financial statements must also be prepared on that basis.
> [ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
> 2. Written demand for copy of financial statement. Upon written demand of any shareholder of a corporation, the corporation shall mail to that shareholder a copy of the most recent annual financial statement prepared in accordance with subsection 1. If the annual financial statement is reported upon by a public accountant, the accountant's report must accompany it. If the annual financial statement is not reported upon by a public accountant, the statement must be accompanied by a statement of the president or the person responsible for the corporation's accounting records:
> A. Stating the reporter's reasonable belief whether the statement was prepared on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles and, if not, describing the basis of preparation; and [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
> B. Describing any respects in which the statement was not prepared on a basis of accounting consistent with the statement prepared for the preceding year. [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
> [ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
> 3. Restrictions on disclosure of financial statement. The articles of incorporation or bylaws of a corporation may impose reasonable restrictions regarding the disclosure of financial information as a condition to delivery of an annual financial statement to a shareholder in accordance with this section.
>
> With all due respect - Nova Roma needs to get it's corporate house in order. We need to make sure that we are in compliance with all laws and regulations and there is no better time than the present to begin work in that regards. The elections are not a substitution to the annual meeting!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@> wrote:
> >
> > P. Corva Potite s.d.
> >
> > I think that was out of line.
> >
> > I would be interested in reading a rational, intelligent discussion of NR's corporate compliance. But all I've seen so far is days and days of name-calling and sly insults being volleyed back and forth. If that's supposed to be considered 'adult,' I must have a way different definition of adult behavior than you have.
> >
> > (Except for the person who posted the actual text of the communication from the Maine Attorney General's office. That, I appreciated. It was the one piece of information I could use to form an opinion.)
> >
> > So, in lieu of a useful discussion of corporate compliance, I am quite happy to talk about wine, as I know more about drinking it than I do about its history.
> >
> > I came to Nova Roma because I was interested in history, not in internal politics.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate
> > > compliance, the law, and the future of NR.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Potitus
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65602 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salve Livia,

I admit, I did not have the time. I try whenever I can to post both English and Latin, but I did not have the time to type the Latin version. Sometimes I can find the Latin online as well and this makes it easier. Sometimes I only have the English version and sometimes only the Latin version but I would not subject anyone to my translations, not yet anyway;)
I will make an extra effort to do post both versions as time permits.

Here though, is a quickie;) but I promise more to follow, and please add those of your own also!

Martialis
Book 11-17
Non omnis nostri nocturna est pagina libri:
invenies et quod mane, Sabine, legas.

Not all the verses in my book belong to sordid night:
You'll find some fit to read, Sabinus, in the morning light.

Vale,
Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65604 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Corporate Compliance (was:Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
You are welcome - I posted this on the ML about 2 months ago. To silence in the senate and in the ML. :)

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

There are serious corporate compliance issues beyond this particular issue (and these are issue that the CFO cannot fix) they need to be fixed by either revising the articles of incorporation (primarily) and constitutional reforms.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you! :) This, at least, is somthing objective that can be looked at and discussed.
>
> P. Corva
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Ave Conscript Fathers,
> >
> > In my never ending research I have come across a very serious issue that Nova Roma's board directors needs to address in all due haste.
> >
> > According to Section 602 and 603 Nova Roma has never fully been in compliance with these sections which in a nutshell require us (NR) to notify all members who have voting eligibility of the elections of officers:
> >
> > http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/13-B/title13-Bsec603.html
> >
> > 1. Written notice of meetings. Unless otherwise provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws, written notice stating the place, day and hour of the meeting and, in case of a special meeting, the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called, shall be delivered not less than 10 nor more than 50 days before the date of the meeting, either personally or by mail, by or at the direction of the president or the secretary, or the officers or persons calling the meeting, to each member entitled to vote at such meeting. If mailed, such notice shall be deemed to be delivered when deposited in the United States mail addressed to the member at his address as it appears on the records of the corporation, with postage thereon prepaid.
> >
> > So, given our lack of specificity in our bylaws - NR needed to provide written notification to each member who has the ability to vote. What NR has essentially created is a new class of member a third class if you will - those who are able to receive email (the first and second class are the Assidui/nonAssidui class). This also goes to notifications about dues and votes in general - such notification, per Maine Law - must be done in writing and thusly via surface mail.
> >
> > The other issue is the lack of an annual meeting which must be duly advertised. Thusly, by failure to be in compliant with sectino 603 - we become automatically non-complaint per section 602.2 which states:
> >
> > 2. Annual meetings. A meeting shall be held annually at such time as may be provided in the articles of incorporation or bylaws. If there shall be a failure, for whatever reason, to hold the annual meeting for a period of 30 days after the date for such meeting specified in the bylaws or articles of incorporation, or if no date has been specified, for a period of 13 months after the organization of the corporation or after its last annual meeting, a substitute annual meeting may be called by any person or persons entitled to call a special meeting of the members.
> >
> > While we can hold elections for our magistrates during the annual meeting we have failed to uphold issues of fidicuary duty in that NR has failed to disclose its annual reports and to allow access to said information to our membership -as stated in Section 1620
> >
> > http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/Statutes/13-C/title13-Csec1620.html
> >
> > In this I am going to disclose the entire statute:
> >
> > 1. Financial statements. No later than 5 months after the close of each fiscal year, each corporation that is not a close corporation shall prepare annual financial statements, which may be consolidated or combined statements of the corporation and one or more of its subsidiaries, as appropriate, that include a balance sheet as of the end of the fiscal year, an income statement for that year, and a statement of changes in shareholders' equity for the year unless that information appears elsewhere in the financial statements. If financial statements are prepared for the corporation on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles, the annual financial statements must also be prepared on that basis.
> > [ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
> > 2. Written demand for copy of financial statement. Upon written demand of any shareholder of a corporation, the corporation shall mail to that shareholder a copy of the most recent annual financial statement prepared in accordance with subsection 1. If the annual financial statement is reported upon by a public accountant, the accountant's report must accompany it. If the annual financial statement is not reported upon by a public accountant, the statement must be accompanied by a statement of the president or the person responsible for the corporation's accounting records:
> > A. Stating the reporter's reasonable belief whether the statement was prepared on the basis of generally accepted accounting principles and, if not, describing the basis of preparation; and [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
> > B. Describing any respects in which the statement was not prepared on a basis of accounting consistent with the statement prepared for the preceding year. [2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF).]
> > [ 2001, c. 640, Pt. A, §2 (NEW); 2001, c. 640, Pt. B, §7 (AFF) .]
> > 3. Restrictions on disclosure of financial statement. The articles of incorporation or bylaws of a corporation may impose reasonable restrictions regarding the disclosure of financial information as a condition to delivery of an annual financial statement to a shareholder in accordance with this section.
> >
> > With all due respect - Nova Roma needs to get it's corporate house in order. We need to make sure that we are in compliance with all laws and regulations and there is no better time than the present to begin work in that regards. The elections are not a substitution to the annual meeting!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "aerdensrw" <aerdensrw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > P. Corva Potite s.d.
> > >
> > > I think that was out of line.
> > >
> > > I would be interested in reading a rational, intelligent discussion of NR's corporate compliance. But all I've seen so far is days and days of name-calling and sly insults being volleyed back and forth. If that's supposed to be considered 'adult,' I must have a way different definition of adult behavior than you have.
> > >
> > > (Except for the person who posted the actual text of the communication from the Maine Attorney General's office. That, I appreciated. It was the one piece of information I could use to form an opinion.)
> > >
> > > So, in lieu of a useful discussion of corporate compliance, I am quite happy to talk about wine, as I know more about drinking it than I do about its history.
> > >
> > > I came to Nova Roma because I was interested in history, not in internal politics.
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry, Maior, the adults still want to debate the real issues: corporate
> > > > compliance, the law, and the future of NR.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > > Potitus
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65605 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salvéte Omnes,

I thought that tonight I will post a different theme, something a little softer, of beauty, a mention of love finally realized - a gift from Venus perhaps. Amongst other things - but it is a peek into the life of an ancient woman.(late 1st century B.C.)
I will offer two translations of the first poem. However all of the poems will be in English and Latin by Sulpicia.

Sulpicia: Six Poems
Epistulæ

I.
Love has come at last. The very idea
That I'd hide it makes me more ashamed
Than openly confessing. Won over
By my Muse's supplication, Cythera's Goddess
Has brought him to me, placed him in my arms.
What Venus promised, she has fulfilled.
Let them tattle who have missed their chance.
I'll not entrust the news to a sealed letter
That none may read of it before my lover does.
I loathe to wear a mask in deference
To what the world may say. Let everyone hear
That we have come together - each of us
Deserving the other.

I.
Tandem venit amor, qualem texisse pudori
quam nudasse alicui sit mihi fama magis.
Exorata meis illum Cytherea Camenis
adtulit in nostrum deposuitque sinum.
Exsolvit promissa Venus: mea gaudia narret,
dicetur siquis non habuisse sua.
Non ego signatis quicquam mandare tabellis,
ne legat id nemo quam meus ante, velim,
sed peccasse iuvat, vultus conponere famae
taedet: cum digno digna fuisse ferar.

The following six: © translated by Lee Pearcy
1.
At last. It's come. Love,
the kind that veiling
will give me reputation more
than showing my soul naked to someone.
I prayed to Aphrodite in Latin, in poems;
she brought him, snuggled him
into my bosom.
Venus has kept her promises:
let her tell the story of my happiness,
in case some woman will be said
not to have had her share.
I would not want to trust
anything to tablets, signed and sealed,
so no one reads me
before my love--
but indiscretion has its charms;
it's boring
to fit one's face to reputation.
May I be said to be
a worthy lover for a worthy love.

I.
Tandem venit amor, qualem texisse pudori
quam nudasse alicui sit mihi fama magis.
Exorata meis illum Cytherea Camenis
adtulit in nostrum deposuitque sinum.
Exsolvit promissa Venus: mea gaudia narret,
dicetur siquis non habuisse sua.
Non ego signatis quicquam mandare tabellis,
ne legat id nemo quam meus ante, velim,
sed peccasse iuvat, vultus conponere famae
taedet: cum digno digna fuisse ferar.

2.
Birthday's here and I hate it--
of all the days to be spent in gloom
out in the dreary country
without Cerinthus.
What is sweeter than the city?
Is a house in the country
on the banks of that frigid stream in Arretine country,
any place for a girl?
Now Uncle Messalla, do take a rest--
you've always looked after me too well.
There are times, you know, when travel's
a bad idea.
I'VE BEEN KIDNAPPED I'VE LEFT BEHIND
MY MIND MY FEELING VIOLENCE
DOESN'T LET ME BE MY OWN
MISTRESS.

II.
Invisus natalis adest, qui rure molesto
et sine Cerintho tristis agendus erit.
Dulcius urbe quid est? an villa sit apta puellæ
atque Arrentino frigidus amnis agro?
Iam nimium Messalla mei studiose, quiescas,
heu tempestivae, saeve propinque, viae!
Hic animum sensusque meos abducta relinquo,
arbitrio quamvis non sinis esse meo.


3.
You know the dreary trip contemplated for a girl?
Now I can be at Rome for your birthday.
May that day be celebrated by us all,
which now comes, perchance, as no surprise to you.

III.
Scis iter ex animo sublatum triste puellæ?
natali Rómæ iam licet esse suo.
Omnibus ille dies nobis natalis agatur,
qui nec opinanti nunc tibi forte venit.

4.
Thank you for taking such pains over me,
for keeping me from making a fool of myself.
I do hope you enjoy the bimbo.
Her flashy clothes
do cast a subtly shabby light on
SVLPICIA SERVI FILIA.
(They are a little worried about me,
afraid I might trip up,
marry a nobody.)

IV.
Gratum est, securus multum quod iam tibi de me
permittis, subito ne male inepta cadam.
Sit tibi cura togae potior pressumque quasillo
scortum quam Servi filia Sulpicia:
Solliciti sunt pro nobis, quibus illa dolori est,
ne cedam ignoto, maxima causa, toro.


5.
Do you think kindly of your girl, Cerinthus,
now that a fever attacks my limbs?
I wouldn't wish to get well except on one condition:
that I could think you wished it too.
But what would be the good in getting well, if you
can bear my sickness with unfluttered heart?

V.
Estne tibi, Cerinthe, tuae pia cura puellae,
quod mea nunc vexat corpora fessa calor?
A ego non aliter tristes evincere morbos
optarim, quam te si quoque velle putem.
At mihi quid prosit morbos evincere, si tu
nostra potes lento pectore ferre mala?

6.
May I never be, o dawn of my life, as warm a care to you
as I seem to have been a few days ago,
if --fool that I am-- I've done anything in all my short life
that I might admit to regretting more
than leaving you alone last night--
passionate only to hide my passion.

VI.
Ne tibi sim, mea lux, aeque iam fervida cura
ac videor paucos ante fuisse dies,
si quicquam tota conmisi stulta iuventa,
cuius me fatear paenituisse magis,
hesterna quam te solum quod nocte reliqui,
ardorem cupiens dissimulare meum.

Valéte,
Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65606 From: ellencatalina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Interesting webcomic
Salve

Oh, I love this comic. Thanks for introducing us to it.

Q. Julia Cornuta

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M Arminius Maior <marminius@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete
>
>
> An interesting webcomic, about the life and misadventures of a certain M. Felix in the times of Vespasianus.
>
> http://spqrblues.com/d/20051120.html
>
>
> Vale
> M. Arminius
>
>
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65607 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Wow! Now I would say that is very auspicious. Thank you for sharing that.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 12:58 PM

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Maximae Valeriae Messallinae salutem dicit

Just a few minutes ago I looked out the window, here at work (I work on campus at the school I attend), and saw a doe and her baby.  I've never seen a baby deer up close, and I must confess that it was too cute for words.  It could walk, but did so awkwardly,  and must have only been a week or so old.  I would say seeing a doe and her calf in the middle of day is fairly auspicious.

I mention it because it seems like something you would appreciate.

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ yahoo.com> wrote:


Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
 
Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65608 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Oh that would be so precious! Three little male kittens in their togas and three female kittens in their tunicas. Is that right? Sadly, my Latin is deplorable, but I am working on it.
Your son has a gift. I am impressed with his dedication and yours and everyone else who helps animals. So many need help. We hear so much of the bad, we forget all the good that is done every day for animals all over the world by good people. Vesta bless them all.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 
 

--- On Wed, 5/20/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:

From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:05 PM

Salvé Maxima Valeria,

You have brought a smile to my face the laughter you bring me is courtesy of my imagination which includes a pair of Roman Vestals in Pallæ and the cats in togulæ strolling along. Wonderful image, I might put it on canvas or maybe in clay someday!

Feral cats another issue. When I was a home RN clinician I would travel further out in the country, the boonies really, where people would dump their unwanted kittens and dogs, my youngest son, who I often took with me, had a natural knack for all animals and developed a way with feral kittens. Later when he got a little older he would bring home abandoned animals (all kinds including "damn goat") including feral kittens he found. He had success with hand feeding and petting many of the kittens, a good percentage became adoptable.
Takes a lot of dedication.
Your work with such animals is commendable.
I have had many animals throughout the years and with the exception of my childhood dog, they were all adopted, the dogs mostly purebreds, even a Hungarian Vizsla (one of the most gorgeous animals I have ever seen), with the exception of a raccoon and white barn owl that adopted me. *laugh*
There are so many great animals that need a good home.

Valé,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ ...> wrote:
>
> (I forget to add that the care of feral cat colonies is a whole another situation.)
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 12:18 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, it is the two of us, one of my Vestal apprentices and me, every evening pushing two strollers with three cats in each one. Four of them look forward to it and they are usually somewhere nearby the strollers, but we have two girls who are not so eager. We usually have to pick them up off their pillows and carry them to the strollers; sometimes, they don't want to go out at all and run away and hide under the bed. I just leave them be.
>  
> Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers of cats in desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy cats being euthanized because no one will adopt them.
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>  
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 11:44 AM
>
>
>
>
> Salvé, et Salvéte,
>
> The image of our Vestal walking her cat in her stroller is marvelous.*laughs*
>
> There are some pressing medical reasons for not allowing cats to roam. First I must say I understand Livia on this issue, it is so natural for a cat to roam, hunt and explore. I will not own cats while living in the city or even in the country unless it is a remote area because I believe cats should have some freedom.
>
> In the 80's my children had twin cats, Spike and Gizmo, they were indoor/outdoor cats and when we lived in the country they were healthy. A year after we moved to the city Spike had a seizure and when we took him to the vet we were told he had feline AIDS. This is highly virulent, common in my area and can be transmitted very easily…simply by another feline walking through an infected cat's urine or feces. It is painful; there are painful sores, seizures and a myriad of problems. The cost to treat such an animal is the same as it is to treat a human, astronomical. Pet insurance does not cover it. It is insidious, develops rapidly and much more humane to euthanize the animal. Look it up to see how prevalent it is in your area.
>
> In the 90's I lived on three secluded fenced acres and our second set of twins, Samir and Khalid, thrived. My Lab Petra, who was their best friend also, kept other cats away but we were surrounded by unused acreage with a stream bordering the property. Khalid still lives on there with the new family and Samir has adopted another family and both are healthy and happy and old. At any rate I could not see putting Samir in a stroller, Khalid maybe;)
>
> Valé, et valéte
>
> Julia
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65609 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Uh ho! Ah...no... but if you or someone could provide me with some information about them and perhaps a picture, I suppose I could make them. :)
Thank you much.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:

From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 1:22 PM


Salve, Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
And ... do you have little bullas (I think that's right, the amulets babies and children wore) ready for them?  Of course, *attaching* them, and keeping them on, and undamaged may be a challenge few Roman mothers *ever* faced, LOL!
 
Vale et valete,
C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65610 From: C. Maria Caeca Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)

Salve Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
I've read about them, but I'd have to do some serious research to find out what they contained, exactly, and who made them.  Of course, that's only the *first* part.  Ever tried to permanently attach something to a cat, let alone a kitten?  LOL!  I've sat and watched some of my kitties detach themselves, efficiently and expeditiously, from flea collars.  One even brought hers to me, dumped it at my feet and strutted her little stuff out of the room, the brat!
 
Vale et Valias,
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65611 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
If by ADF, you mean A Druid Fellowship, that is an international organization of Druids. They are commonly present at pagan festivals. At our Pagan Pride Days, they usually perform the main ritual. I have attended many of their rituals and I have several friends who are Druids. I don't think ADF is related to us in anyway, though.
Of course, if this ADF refered to is something else, then I don't know what it is. ADF to most pagans are the Druids.
 
Valete bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, D. Boyle <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:

From: D. Boyle <deandreaboyle@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
To: "Nova Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 6:07 PM

Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.

In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.

Vale.

On May 20, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Steve Moore wrote:
> David,
> Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF,
> which is an example of one of these other organizations?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com] On
> Behalf Of David Kling
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
>
> Salve:
>
> Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
>
> If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my
> involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I
> care about Nova Roma? Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain
> people in Nova Roma? Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and
> others, so vehemently accuse me of? No. Anyone who is active in
> Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing
> things.
>
> You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There
> are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have
> spoken to many times on the telephone. These individuals know me
> best. You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will
> paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.
>
> I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.
> I've been in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova
> Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices. Yet you
> paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal
> opportunist. You are so far from the truth in your assertions of
> me. But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do
> whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your
> candidate. And you call me political!
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@ yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it
> always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and
> you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one
> organization to the nex
>
>
>
> Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
> Cn. Iulius Caesar

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65612 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
LMHO
Yep, cats are like that. :)
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:

From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 7:46 PM


Salve Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
I've read about them, but I'd have to do some serious research to find out what they contained, exactly, and who made them.  Of course, that's only the *first* part.  Ever tried to permanently attach something to a cat, let alone a kitten?  LOL!  I've sat and watched some of my kitties detach themselves, efficiently and expeditiously, from flea collars.  One even brought hers to me, dumped it at my feet and strutted her little stuff out of the room, the brat!
 
Vale et Valias,
C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65613 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
O rly? When did we start placing restrictions like that on? Other organizations are just as relevant. Just like his photo is relevant. Everything is relevant! Just like in elections in other "nations" He should expect to be vetted and investigated.

Vale,

Sulla


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "D. Boyle" <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.
>
> In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
> Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
> not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
> citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
> On May 20, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Steve Moore wrote:
> > David,
> > Would you care to come clean about your experience with the ADF,
> > which is an example of one of these other organizations?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com[mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of David Kling
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:16 AM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tedious bore
> >
> > Salve:
> >
> > Oh, you have me so figured out don't you! LOL!
> >
> > If I received a sense of self actualization purely from my
> > involvement in Nova Roma that would be a sad state indeed. Do I
> > care about Nova Roma? Certainly. Do I care deeply about certain
> > people in Nova Roma? Absolutely. Do I "collect" titles as you, and
> > others, so vehemently accuse me of? No. Anyone who is active in
> > Nova Roma will be get "titles" simply by being around and doing
> > things.
> >
> > You and I have never met, and we never spoke on the phone. There
> > are several Nova Romans with whom I have met, and with whom I have
> > spoken to many times on the telephone. These individuals know me
> > best. You do not know me at all, and it is reasonable that you will
> > paint a poor picture of me because that is what you do.
> >
> > I find your comment "one organization to the next" interesting.
> > I've been in Nova Roma for seven years. I've been active in Nova
> > Roma for all of those years, and have held many offices. Yet you
> > paint a picture that I'm some sort of flighty non-committal
> > opportunist. You are so far from the truth in your assertions of
> > me. But it is an election time, and you and your friends will do
> > whatever it takes to discredit me in an attempt to build up your
> > candidate. And you call me political!
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It always has been about achieving titles with you Modiane, and it
> > always will be. You are a political creature first and foremost and
> > you will go where the wind blows you, one faction to the next, one
> > organization to the nex
> >
> >
> >
> > Your shabby record stands for itself. ..
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> > Cn. Iulius Caesar
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65614 From: Maior Date: 2009-05-20
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Salvete Messalina Caecaque;
here is a link to a photo of Triarius' boys wearing bullas, bullas could be made of leather, gold, etc..
you can buy a bulla here for 30 euros:
http://armillum.com/tienda/index.php?main_page=index
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Bulla
here's a link to children's page in the NRwiki: it has toys,stories, games etc.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Children_(Nova_Roma)#Toys_and_Games
optime valete
Maior

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@...> wrote:
>
> LMHO
> Yep, cats are like that. :)
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 7:46 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Salve Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
>  
> I've read about them, but I'd have to do some serious research to find out what they contained, exactly, and who made them.  Of course, that's only the *first* part.  Ever tried to permanently attach something to a cat, let alone a kitten?  LOL!  I've sat and watched some of my kitties detach themselves, efficiently and expeditiously, from flea collars.  One even brought hers to me, dumped it at my feet and strutted her little stuff out of the room, the brat!
>  
> Vale et Valias,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65615 From: Roger Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Livy on the Censors
[Note: I found this from Livy dealing with censors and their terms of office. I thought it might be appropriate given the current discussions in Nova Roma. It is long, but I thught it instrcutive -- Lucius Quintius Constantius]

From Livy, History of Rome, Book IX, chapters 33 and 34:

33. Quintus Fabius, consul for the ensuing year, succeeded to the command of the army of Sutrium; the colleague given to him was Caius Marcius Rutilius. On the one side, Fabius brought with him a reinforcement from Rome, and on the other, a new army had been sent for, and came from home, to the Etrurians. Many years had now passed without any disputes between the patrician magistrates and plebeian tribunes, when a contest took its rise from that family, which seemed raised by fate as antagonists to the tribunes and commons of those times; Appius Claudius, being censor, when the eighteen months had expired, which was the time limited by the Aemilian law for the duration of the censorship, although his colleague Caius Plautinus had already resigned his office, could not be prevailed on, by any means, to give up his. There was a tribune of the commons, Publius Sempronius; he undertook to enforce a legal process for terminating the censorship within the lawful time, which was not more popular than just, nor more pleasing to the people generally than to every man of character in the city. After he frequently appealed to the Aemilian law, and bestowed commendations on Mamercus Aemilius, who, in his dictatorship, had been the author of it, for having contracted, within the space of a year and six months, the censorship, which formerly lasted five years, and was a power which in consequence of its long continuance, often became tyrannical, he proceeded thus: "Tell me, Appius Claudius, in what manner you would have acted, had you been censor, at the time when Caius Furius and Marcus Geganius were censors?" Appius insisted that "the tribune's question was irrelevant to his case. For, although the Aemilian law might bind those censors, during whose magistracy it was passed, because the people made that law after they had become censors; and whatever order is the last passed by the people, that is held to be the law, and valid: yet neither he, nor any of those who had been created censors subsequent to the passing of that law, could be bound by it."

34. While Appius urged such frivolous arguments as these, which carried no conviction whatever, the other said, "Behold, Romans, the offspring of that Appius, who being created decemvir for one year, created himself for a second; and who, during a third, without being created either by himself or by any other, held on the fasces and the government though a private individual; nor ceased to continue in office, until the government itself, ill acquired, ill administered, and ill retained, overwhelmed him in ruin. This is the same family, Romans, by whose violence and injustice you were compelled to banish yourselves from your native city, and seize on the Sacred Mount; the same, against which you provided for yourselves the protection of the tribunes; the same, on account of which two armies of you took post on the Aventine; the same, which violently opposed the laws against usury, and always the agrarian laws; the same, which broke through the right of intermarriage between the patricians and the commons; the same, which shut up the road to curule offices against the commons: this is a name, more hostile to your liberty by far, than that of the Tarquins. I pray you, Appius Claudius, though this is now the hundredth year since the dictatorship of Mamercus Aemilius, though there have been so many men of the highest characters and abilities censors, did none of these ever read the Twelve Tables? None of them know, that, whatever was the last order of the people, that was the law? Nay, certainly they all knew it; and they therefore obeyed the Aemilian law, rather than the old one, under which the censors had been at first created; because it was the last order; and because, when two laws are contradictory, the new always repeals the old. Do you mean to say, Appius, that the people are not bound by the Aemilian law? Or, that the people are bound, and you alone exempted? The Aemilian law bound those violent censors, Caius Furius and Marcus Geganius, who showed what mischief that office might do in the State; when, out of resentment for the limitation of their power, they disfranchised Mamercus Aemilius, the first man of the age, either in war or peace. It bound all the censors thenceforward, during the space of a hundred years. It binds Caius Plautinus your colleague, created under the same auspices, with the same privileges. Did not the people create him with the fullest privileges with which any censor was ever created? Or is your an excepted case, in which this peculiarity and singularity takes place? Shall the person, whom you create king of the sacrifices, laying hold of the style of sovereignity, say, thate he was created with the fullest privileges with which any king was ever created at Rome? Who then, do you think, would be content with a dictatorship of six months? Who, with the office of interrex for five days? Whom would you, with confidence, create dictator, for the purpose of driving the nail, or of exhibiting games? How foolish, how stupid, do you think, those must appear in this man's eyes, who, after performing most important services, abdicated the dictatorship within the twentieth day; or who, being irregularly created, resigned their office? Why should I bring instances from antiquity? Lately, within these last ten years, Caius Maenius, dictator, having enforced inquiries, with more strictness than consisted with the safety of some powerful men, a charge was thrown out by his enemies, that he himself was infected with the very crime against which his inquiries were directed; now Maenius, I say, in order that he might, in a private capacity, meet the imputation, abdicated the censorship. I expect not such moderation in you; you will not degenerate from your family, of all others the most imperious and assuming; nor resign your office a day, nor even a hour, before you are forced to it. Be it so: but then let no one exceed the time limited. It is enough to add a day, a month, to the censorship. But Appius says, I will hold the censorship, and hold it alone, three years and six months longer than is allowed by the Aemilian law. Surely this is like kingly power. Or will you fill up the vacancy with another colleague, a proceeding not allowable, even in the case of a death of a censor? You are not satisfied that, as if a religious censor, you have degraded a most ancient solemnity, and the only one instituted by the very deity to whom it is performed, from priests of that rite who were of the highest rank to the ministry of mere servants. [You are not satisfied that] a family, more ancient than the origin of the this city, and sanctified by an intercourse of hospitality with the immortal gods, has, by means of you and your censorship, been utterly extirpated, with all its branches, within the space of a year, unless you involve the whole commonwealth in horrid guilt, which my mind feels a horror even to contemplate. This city was taken in that lustrum in which Lucius Papirius Cursor, on the death of his colleague Julius, the censor, rather than resign his office, substituted Marcus Cornelius Maluginensis. Yet how much more moderate was his ambition, Appius, than yours! Lucius Papirius neither held the censorship alone, nor beyond the time prescribed by law. But still he found no one who would follow his example; all succeeding censors, in case of the death of a colleague, abdicated the office. As for you, neither the expiration of the time of your censorship, nor the resignation of your colleague, nor law, nor shame restrains you. You make fortitude to consist in arrogance, in boldness, in a contempt of gods and men. Appius Claudius, in consideration of the dignity and respect due to that office which you have borne, I should be sorry, not only to offer you personal violence, but even to address you in language too severe. With respect to what I have hitherto said, your pride and obstinacy forced me to speak. And now, unless you pay obedience to the Aemilian law, I shall order you to be led to prison. Nor, since a rule has been stablished by our ancestors, that in the election of censors unless two shall obtain the legal number of suffrages, neither shall be returned, but the election deferred, will I suffer you, who could not singly be created censor, to hold the censorship without a colleague." Having spoken to this effect he ordered the censor to be seized, and borne to prison. But although six of the tribunes approved of the proceeding of their colleague, three gave their support to Appius, on his appealing to them, and he held the censorhsip alone, to the great disgust of all ranks of men.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65616 From: politicog Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Thoughts on the Consul Suffectus election
Having just read from Livy's account of the dispute between censor Appius Claudius and one of the Tribunes about 316 B.C.E., has led me to the following thoughts on this election.

There seems to have been a great expectation in Roma Antiqua that if, for any reason, there was a vacancy in the office of censors, it was expected (though not necessarily codified into law) that the remaing censor would resign. This seems to have been the case in either death or resignation of a censor. As far as I have been able to ascertain, Nova Roman law does not require the remaining censor to resign. If that is what we want to do, then we should adopt a lex or amend the Constitution to specifically state that if one censor resigns or otherwise vacates the office, the office of both censors is deemed vacant. Indeed, I believe the idea of two censors with staggered terms is to ensure some continuity in the office that needs to deal with citizenship and names issues.

I do believe that one of the candidates is disqualified. I think consecutive terms means consecutive terms, and therefore someone who has just completed a term as censor is not qualified until a full two-year term has elapsed.

Having said that, his opponent should not get too excited. In his postings regarding this campaign, I have seen a level of speech that goes way beyond the ordinary bounds of honest difference of opinion and debate. So far beyond that I cannot in conscience give a vote to him either.

It has admittedly been some time since I voted in magisterial election. I would like to vote in this one, but if these are the only candidates available, I feel that I must abstain.

So if the cista gives me the option of abstaining, I will do that. If not, I will sit out this election.

Lucius Quintius Constantius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65617 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Weight Loss
Salve:

Oh, it hasn't been easy but the rewards are SO worth it.  My goal is to shed another 40 lbs by the end of Summer and hopefully by the end of the year get down to about 200 - 220 lbs.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...> wrote:


P. Corva Modiane s.p.d.

Congratulations on the weight loss! I could wish my husband would take a cue from you, and I need to do the same.

What do you eat for carbs in lieu of the pasta, potatoes, etc?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> Damn! I was fat in those photos. I weighed 310 lbs there, and in the past
> couple of months I've lost 46 lbs and have radically changed my diet (no
> pasta, no potatoes, no bread, and of course no junk food) eating more fruit
> and whole foods and hitting the gym every day.

(snipped)


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65618 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Tedious bore
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Equestriae Iuniae Laecae salutem dicit

Thank you.  I have no idea while this fellow feels it necessary to refer to me by my "macronational" name, nor do I understand why he wishes to bring my involvement in a ADF from several years ago.  My involvement in ADF has nothing to do with my involvement in Nova Roma.  I was in ADF for a few years, and there were some personality conflicts so I excused myself from the organization.  Since then I've been involved in others organizations and have done well for myself.  I've attended, for example, a Unitarian Universalist congregation -- worked as director of religious education for several years.  I've been active in another Druid organization (ADF just happens to be one Druid organization), and I also hold membership in the Masonic fraternity.  I'm not sure what he is trying to prove.  Were there people in ADF who didn't like me?  Certainly.  Did I have friends there?  Yes, and several people left the organization when I did -- how does that bear on my involvement in Nova Roma?  It doesn't, YET people will try to discredit me any way they can -- because discrediting me is the ONLY thing they have in this election. 

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:07 PM, D. Boyle <deandreaboyle@...> wrote:


Equestria Iunia Laeca Marco Valerio Potito sal.

In Nova Roma we address each other using our Roman names only.
Furthermore, if this ADF is unrelated to this organization, then it is
not part of this election debate. I ask that you respect your fellow
citizens and the traditions of Nova Roma by following these standards.

Vale.




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65619 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Salve Maxima Valeria,

<Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting
cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the
point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers <of cats in
desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just
because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy
cats being euthanized because no one will <adopt them.

I agree 100%. My cats go in an out, but where I live they can go out my back
gate and run around in 10 acres of fields. Still though I am always worried
that Cupid who is nearly two and full of energy, will wander too far and get
hit by a car. When I lived in NYC my cats stayed in and they were prefectly
happy. They did get immensely fat though. They were like big 20 pound
purring pillows ha ha!! My mother lives on Staten Island and keeps her 3
cats in and they are also happy. The house is fill with these tree things
and tunnels for the cats to play. They love it.!

I'd love to see the cats in the stroller!! Adorable!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65620 From: Diana Octavia Aventina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Weight Loss
Salve Corva,

< and in the past
>> > couple of months I've lost 46 lbs

And I found your 46 pounds or close to it...:-( I take 2 different
kinds of epilepsie medication for the last 2 years-- one increases your
hunger and the other slows the metabolism. I've found the perfect weight
gain combination which is not what I needed. It probably doesn't help that
I am 48 now and everything is slowing down. <loud sigh> This is why my
facebook only contains headshots so no one can see the wide load sticker on
my rear :-p

And congratulations on the weight loss!

Vale,
Diana
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65621 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Wine
Avete;

In answer to the question about surviving grapes, which are of ancient lineage.

Two grapes, from my reading, are the likeliest candidates for
surviving since Roman times. Zinfandel has been shown through genetic
testing to be a direct descendant of the Primitivo variety, which is
still grown in Italy. Aglianico is a variety that is strongly thought
to be descended from grapes brought to Italy by Greek settlers.

Also, the mention of the grape mite infestation is correct. Phloxera
attacks the roots of grape vines, but American native grape species
are resistant. When the infestation occurred in the 19th century,
European vineyards survived by importing massive amounts of American
rootstock (much of it from Texas) and grafting the "noble" vines onto
them. Grafting does not yield hybrid grape varieties; one can graft
cherry branches onto an apple tree and you'll still get cherries.

A version of Falernian does indeed still exists. It is made by the
Villa Matilda Winery, which I think is located near Caserta in the
Campagnia region of Italy.

(A few thoughts off the top of my head.)

Eat hearty, drink deep, live well
Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65622 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: a. d. XII Kalendas Iunias: AGONALIA; Vediovis
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Salvete, vosque bona Iuppiter auctet ope.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Iunonias; haec dies nefastus est: AGONALIA; Vediovi; Suculae exoriuntur, septentrionales venti, nonnumquam Auster cum pluvia.

"The Pleiades rise in the morning with a northernly wind, or sometimes a sourthernly wind brings rain." ~ Columella, De Re Rustica 9.2.43


Agonalia

"The dies Agonales, on which the Rex Sacrorum sacrifices a ram in the Regia, were named 'agon' for this reason, because the Minister Sacrificii asks, 'Agone?' (`Shall I do my work?) Unless it is from the Greek, where agon means princeps (leader), from the fact that the sacrificing is done by the leader of the State and the leader of the flock is sacrificed." ~ M. Terrentius Varro, Lingua Latinae 6.12

Four days each year the Rex Sacrorum made this sacrifice in the Regia, on 9 January, 17 March (Liberalia), 21 May, and 11 December. The sacrifices were made respectively to Jupiter, Mars, Vediovis, and to an unknown God in the last instance. The other days on which sacrifices were offered to Vediovis were 1 January, marking the anniversary of His fanum on the Tiber Isle, and on the Nones of March for the anniversary of His temple in the saddle between the Arx and the Capitolium. In His temple on the Capitoline Hill, a statue portrayed Vediovis as a youthful man that "holds arrows, which, as everyone knows, are devised to inflict harm; for that reason it has often been said that that God is Apollo; and a she-goat is sacrificed to Him in the customary fashion, and a representation of that animal stands near his statue (A. Gellius, Noctes Atticae 5.12.11-12)"

The identity of Vediovis with Apollo, based solely on His statue holding arrows, is late and comes from Greek notions. We are told in Livy how a shrine to Vediovis was on the Capitoline Hill prior to the construction of the Capitolium in a period of Roman history before the introduction of statuary depicting any of the Roman deities. Additionally, when Apollo was introduced to Rome, He came in response to a plague as Apollo Medicus and so remained on the Campus Martius until the reign of Augustus Caesar. Alternately Vediovis was thought to be a young Jupiter, the she-goat representing the goat that suckled Jupiter while He was hidden from His father Saturnus. The Capitoline Hill was originally named the Saturnine Hill. This interpretation, too, is later and based in Greek myth. Such explanations shed no light on Vediovis or on His cultus.

Ovid, Gellius, and later scholars have pointed to how His name is composed by adding the prefix 've-' to a much earlier name for Jupiter, Diovis. Elsewhere, where the prefix 've-' appears it means 'diminutive' or 'evil,' the opposite of the meaning of the word to which it is attached. Thus it is posed that Vediovis might be a diminutive, i. e. younger version of Jupiter. Otherwise He might be assumed to have been an evil aspect of Jupiter. But neither proposal would explain Vediovis. He does seem to be an Underworld deity, and to be distinct from Jupiter. For one thing, while a she-goat is specifically said to be sacrificed to Him, the chief priest of Jupiter, the flamen Dialis is forbidden "to touch, or even to name, a she-goat" (A. Gellius, Noctes Atticae 10.15.12). It is unusal, too, that a female sacrifice should be designated for a God. The shrines of Vediovis lay outside the poemerium, those of Jupiter inside. As with Apollo, the arrows that He holds could represent disease, which was thought to come from the Underworld. Vediovis appears as one of the deities of the Underworld, alongside and distinct from Dis Pater, to which Scipio Africanus Aemilianus devotes Carthage in 146 BCE (Macrobius, Saturnalia 3.9.10-11). Then of course there is this festival, the third dies Agonalis of the year, dedicated to Him in the month of May, in which there are several other festivals devoted to the Manes. If Vediovis is a princeps in the Underworld, and yet not Dis Pater, then He might be thought as the first among the Manes, and that might point to Remus. We may be able to point to how Ovid derived the name of Lemuria by saying that originally it was named Remuria after Remus. Also we see how Ovid raised the Shade of Remus on the first day of Lemuria (9 May) to tell his story and contrast him with Romulus. Did Remus descend into the Underworld as Vediovis, just as Romulus was to ascend in the Heavens as Quirinus? If such an identity ever existed, it, too, I think, would have been a later development. Secondly the Agonalia dedicated to Vediovis occurs seven days, inclusive, from the Ides of May. While the other lunar divisions of the month held special rites on the Kalends, Nones, and Ides for celestial deities, the Last Quarter, not mentioned in calendar notation or by Cato, was instead said to be dedicated to the Manes. As in the case with the festival of Faunus falling on the Nones of December, and from the commentary by Probus on Virgil's Georgic I.10 where he says that, "In Italy, whatever sort of sacrifice they offer annually is celebrated monthly," we thereby assume that the Nones of each month may have been dedicated to Faunus originally; it may be that this Last Quarter, which we know involved rites for the Manes, may have originally involved Vediovis. The only fact that can be definitively stated is that little of Vediovis is known, or was known even by the Romans of the Late Republic.


"Why is the so-called Rex Sacrorum, that is to say, the 'king of sacred rites,' forbidden to hold office or to address the people? Is it because in early times the kings performed the greater part of the most important rites, and themselves offered the sacrifices with the assistance of the priests? But when they did not practice moderation, but were arrogant and oppressive, most of the Greek states took away their authority, and left to them only the offering of sacrifices to the Gods; but the Romans expelled the kings altogether, and to offer the sacrifices they appointed another, whom they did not allow to hold office or to address the people, so that in their sacred rites only they might seem to be subject to a king, and to tolerate a kingship only on account of the Gods. At any rate, there is a sacrifice traditionally performed in the forum at the place called Comitium, and, when the Rex has performed this, he flees from the forum as fast as he can." ~ Plutarch, Roman Questions 63

AUC 324 / 429 BCE: Birth of Plato.

AUC 823 / 70 CE: Legions under Titus Flavius break through the middle wall into rebellious Jerusalem.

AUC 946 / 193 CE: Septimus Severus saluted by legions as imperator.

AUC 1046 / 293 CE: Diocletianus elevates Galerius to the rank of Caesar.


Our thought for today is from Demophilus 16.

"The self-sufficient and needy philosopher lives a life truly similar to Divinity, and considers the non-possession of external and unnecessary goods as the greatest wealth. For the acquisition of riches sometimes inflames desire; but not to act in any respect unjustly is sufficient to the enjoyment of a blessed life."
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65623 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Livy on the Censors

M. Valerius Potitus L. Quintio Constantio SPD.

 

Thank you for this passage from Livy. It shows how good Romans of character stand up to abuses of power.

 

Vale.

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roger
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:31 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Livy on the Censors

 




[Note: I found this from Livy dealing with censors and their terms of office. I thought it might be appropriate given the current discussions in Nova Roma. It is long, but I thught it instrcutive -- Lucius Quintius Constantius]

From Livy, History of Rome, Book IX, chapters 33 and 34:

33. Quintus Fabius, consul for the ensuing year, succeeded to the command of the army of Sutrium; the colleague given to him was Caius Marcius Rutilius. On the one side, Fabius brought with him a reinforcement from Rome , and on the other, a new army had been sent for, and came from home, to the Etrurians. Many years had now passed without any disputes between the patrician magistrates and plebeian tribunes, when a contest took its rise from that family, which seemed raised by fate as antagonists to the tribunes and commons of those times; Appius Claudius, being censor, when the eighteen months had expired, which was the time limited by the Aemilian law for the duration of the censorship, although his colleague Caius Plautinus had already resigned his office, could not be prevailed on, by any means, to give up his. There was a tribune of the commons, Publius Sempronius; he undertook to enforce a legal process for terminating the censorship within the lawful time, which was not more popular than just, nor more pleasing to the people generally than to every man of character in the city. After he frequently appealed to the Aemilian law, and bestowed commendations on Mamercus Aemilius, who, in his dictatorship, had been the author of it, for having contracted, within the space of a year and six months, the censorship, which formerly lasted five years, and was a power which in consequence of its long continuance, often became tyrannical, he proceeded thus: "Tell me, Appius Claudius, in what manner you would have acted, had you been censor, at the time when Caius Furius and Marcus Geganius were censors?" Appius insisted that "the tribune's question was irrelevant to his case. For, although the Aemilian law might bind those censors, during whose magistracy it was passed, because the people made that law after they had become censors; and whatever order is the last passed by the people, that is held to be the law, and valid: yet neither he, nor any of those who had been created censors subsequent to the passing of that law, could be bound by it."

34. While Appius urged such frivolous arguments as these, which carried no conviction whatever, the other said, "Behold, Romans, the offspring of that Appius, who being created decemvir for one year, created himself for a second; and who, during a third, without being created either by himself or by any other, held on the fasces and the government though a private individual; nor ceased to continue in office, until the government itself, ill acquired, ill administered, and ill retained, overwhelmed him in ruin. This is the same family, Romans, by whose violence and injustice you were compelled to banish yourselves from your native city, and seize on the Sacred Mount; the same, against which you provided for yourselves the protection of the tribunes; the same, on account of which two armies of you took post on the Aventine; the same, which violently opposed the laws against usury, and always the agrarian laws; the same, which broke through the right of intermarriage between the patricians and the commons; the same, which shut up the road to curule offices against the commons: this is a name, more hostile to your liberty by far, than that of the Tarquins. I pray you, Appius Claudius, though this is now the hundredth year since the dictatorship of Mamercus Aemilius, though there have been so many men of the highest characters and abilities censors, did none of these ever read the Twelve Tables? None of them know, that, whatever was the last order of the people, that was the law? Nay, certainly they all knew it; and they therefore obeyed the Aemilian law, rather than the old one, under which the censors had been at first created; because it was the last order; and because, when two laws are contradictory, the new always repeals the old. Do you mean to say, Appius, that the people are not bound by the Aemilian law? Or, that the people are bound, and you alone exempted? The Aemilian law bound those violent censors, Caius Furius and Marcus Geganius, who showed what mischief that office might do in the State; when, out of resentment for the limitation of their power, they disfranchised Mamercus Aemilius, the first man of the age, either in war or peace. It bound all the censors thenceforward, during the space of a hundred years. It binds Caius Plautinus your colleague, created under the same auspices, with the same privileges. Did not the people create him with the fullest privileges with which any censor was ever created? Or is your an excepted case, in which this peculiarity and singularity takes place? Shall the person, whom you create king of the sacrifices, laying hold of the style of sovereignity, say, thate he was created with the fullest privileges with which any king was ever created at Rome ? Who then, do you think, would be content with a dictatorship of six months? Who, with the office of interrex for five days? Whom would you, with confidence, create dictator, for the purpose of driving the nail, or of exhibiting games? How foolish, how stupid, do you think, those must appear in this man's eyes, who, after performing most important services, abdicated the dictatorship within the twentieth day; or who, being irregularly created, resigned their office? Why should I bring instances from antiquity? Lately, within these last ten years, Caius Maenius, dictator, having enforced inquiries, with more strictness than consisted with the safety of some powerful men, a charge was thrown out by his enemies, that he himself was infected with the very crime against which his inquiries were directed; now Maenius, I say, in order that he might, in a private capacity, meet the imputation, abdicated the censorship. I expect not such moderation in you; you will not degenerate from your family, of all others the most imperious and assuming; nor resign your office a day, nor even a hour, before you are forced to it. Be it so: but then let no one exceed the time limited. It is enough to add a day, a month, to the censorship. But Appius says, I will hold the censorship, and hold it alone, three years and six months longer than is allowed by the Aemilian law. Surely this is like kingly power. Or will you fill up the vacancy with another colleague, a proceeding not allowable, even in the case of a death of a censor? You are not satisfied that, as if a religious censor, you have degraded a most ancient solemnity, and the only one instituted by the very deity to whom it is performed, from priests of that rite who were of the highest rank to the ministry of mere servants. [You are not satisfied that] a family, more ancient than the origin of the this city, and sanctified by an intercourse of hospitality with the immortal gods, has, by means of you and your censorship, been utterly extirpated, with all its branches, within the space of a year, unless you involve the whole commonwealth in horrid guilt, which my mind feels a horror even to contemplate. This city was taken in that lustrum in which Lucius Papirius Cursor, on the death of his colleague Julius, the censor, rather than resign his office, substituted Marcus Cornelius Maluginensis. Yet how much more moderate was his ambition, Appius, than yours! Lucius Papirius neither held the censorship alone, nor beyond the time prescribed by law. But still he found no one who would follow his example; all succeeding censors, in case of the death of a colleague, abdicated the office. As for you, neither the expiration of the time of your censorship, nor the resignation of your colleague, nor law, nor shame restrains you. You make fortitude to consist in arrogance, in boldness, in a contempt of gods and men. Appius Claudius, in consideration of the dignity and respect due to that office which you have borne, I should be sorry, not only to offer you personal violence, but even to address you in language too severe. With respect to what I have hitherto said, your pride and obstinacy forced me to speak. And now, unless you pay obedience to the Aemilian law, I shall order you to be led to prison. Nor, since a rule has been stablished by our ancestors, that in the election of censors unless two shall obtain the legal number of suffrages, neither shall be returned, but the election deferred, will I suffer you, who could not singly be created censor, to hold the censorship without a colleague." Having spoken to this effect he ordered the censor to be seized, and borne to prison. But although six of the tribunes approved of the proceeding of their colleague, three gave their support to Appius, on his appealing to them, and he held the censorhsip alone, to the great disgust of all ranks of men.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65624 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus

M. Valerius Potitus SPD.

 

Quirites, we stand at an important juncture, a critical point in time. The election of a Censor is extremely important because of the Censor’s power to create and remove Senators. It is vital that we elect someone who will perform this function for the good of Nova Roma as a whole, not to bring glory to himself or promote his own party or carry on his own vendettas. We need someone of good character, who faces reality and works to correct problems.

 

With this in mind, I cannot endorse Modianus. Here are the three main reasons why:

 

1. His candidacy is illegal, because he seeks a consecutive term.

 

2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine .

 

3. His character, shown by his public actions, both in Nova Roma and outside, has been revealed to be that on a scheming, plotting, self-absorbed individual who will not work with a colleague, who will not show loyalty to his friends, who will use any opportunity to weep “crocodile tears” in the name of moderation, forgiveness and religion, all the while planning how to stab someone in the back.

 

I have met many people like Modinaus in my business life and in my personal life, and I can tell you that he is nothing more than a hypocrite playing on the gullibility of good people. Let’s face it: good people want to believe the CFO of an organization when she says we are in compliance, good people want to believe that old enemies can become reconciled. But when Reality (who should be a goddess) shows that NR is not in compliance, it behooves the good person to say so and work to correct the problem. When Reality and her sister Experience show that a person is not to be trusted, it behooves the good person to speak out.

 

Quirites, I beg of you not to be duped by this man.

 

Valete,

Potitus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65625 From: Sondra Jacobs Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Anything but politics
Salvete Omnes,
 
I just finished reading the article by Caseo Fabius Bueteo Quintilianus called "The Serouisness of Our Res Publica - We need to have a Base in Rome" and I agree 100 percent in RTQ.   
 
On that end, I am planning to visit Rome this coming March (in 2010)  I probably will only go there once in my lifetime and would like some information about what tour companies to use (in English) and what to definately see when there.  My brother and I are going for about 2 weeks.  (but we will be wanting to see other places in Italy, like Pompeii.  We want to concentrate on ancient Rome, not modern.  We want to feel what you were talking about in the article, to experience the glory of Ancient Rome!
 
We are planning to just go stay at a hotel and book tours there (in English), but we've never done this before.  Do you have any ideas that will help?  About what sights to see in the City and also in other parts of Italy.  Also, any websites to visit to book tours and location of the hotels that would be most convenient to touring. 
 
I am so excited to have Rome actually become part of my life!  I am taking Teaching Company courses and reading (and listing on tape) to as much information as I can get my hands on. 
 
Thank you so much for your help in this matter.
 
Valete,
 
Gaia Iulia Cicurina

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65626 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Wine
--- El jue, 21/5/09, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> escribió:


>Eat hearty, drink deep, live well

Ita est!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65627 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus M. Valerio Potito salutem dicit

I have no idea who you are, and we have never worked together in any capacity, nor have we had any interaction until recently were you have been referring to me by my macronational name (which I am still wondering why you do that).  I'm sorry you feel as you do, and while I do not agree with your assessements it is certainly your right to attempt to discredit me.  Good luck with that.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:


M. Valerius Potitus SPD.

 

Quirites, we stand at an important juncture, a critical point in time. The election of a Censor is extremely important because of the Censor’s power to create and remove Senators. It is vital that we elect someone who will perform this function for the good of Nova Roma as a whole, not to bring glory to himself or promote his own party or carry on his own vendettas. We need someone of good character, who faces reality and works to correct problems.

 

With this in mind, I cannot endorse Modianus. Here are the three main reasons why:

 

1. His candidacy is illegal, because he seeks a consecutive term.

 

2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.

 

3. His character, shown by his public actions, both in Nova Roma and outside, has been revealed to be that on a scheming, plotting, self-absorbed individual who will not work with a colleague, who will not show loyalty to his friends, who will use any opportunity to weep “crocodile tears” in the name of moderation, forgiveness and religion, all the while planning how to stab someone in the back.

 

I have met many people like Modinaus in my business life and in my personal life, and I can tell you that he is nothing more than a hypocrite playing on the gullibility of good people. Let’s face it: good people want to believe the CFO of an organization when she says we are in compliance, good people want to believe that old enemies can become reconciled. But when Reality (who should be a goddess) shows that NR is not in compliance, it behooves the good person to say so and work to correct the problem. When Reality and her sister Experience show that a person is not to be trusted, it behooves the good person to speak out.

 

Quirites, I beg of you not to be duped by this man.

 

Valete,

Potitus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65628 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Orthopraxy
Being baptised in the Roman church does not authomatically make you a Roman Catholic in good standing with the Church.  It just kept you out of Limbo if you died as an infant and as part of the Sacrament of Baptism, your parents would have promised to raise you as a Roman Catholic (providing that you can find your Certificate of Baptism).  You may identify yourself as a Roman Catholic and participate in the Church without the formality of the Sacrament of Confirmation; which is your deliberate act of faith to join the Church.  To be a good Roman Catholic, you are expected to go to Confession (at least annually) to profess your sins, make your Act of Contrition, and be forgiven by the Priest so you can receive the Sacrament of Communion (Body and Blood of Christ).  Even though I am mostly an apostate these days, I still make Confession once a decade whether I need it or not.
You might want to write to Modianus about this for more detail since he was formerly very active

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus


-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Collins <oldroman@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 18 May 2009 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Orthopraxy



I've got a question about the Catholic Church. Several years ago after
my Mom passed away I found her birth certificate and found she was a
RC. Until I went the Navy in '68 I attended a Episcopalian church
(since then no church attendence at all). My question is having
parents who are RC (not sure about my dad though) make you
automatically an RC? The was no RC church in the town in SC were I
grew up so I guess they picked the Episcopal Church because it was
close to what they were used to. I am now and have been for a long
time a Deist.

Priscus

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
<gn_iulius_caesar@ yahoo.com> wrote:
> "tall Christians" <LOL> and short ones too! Of course that should have been "all Christians"
>
> Caesar
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> Caesar Maori sal,
>>
>> That was the case prior to the Indian Mutiny. The British, officers, non-com ranks, rankers and administrators of the East India Company in India post Clive of India up to the Mutiny often did "go
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Deism: A Non-Prophet Religion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65629 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)
That is not correct.  In Roman times, Falernian wine was noted as being sweet while the current apellation Falero in Italy is a dry wine.  The only connection between the two wines is the region in which they are grown.  Now the Italian antiquities department excavated some carbonized grape vine rootstock from Pompeii and identified some similar vines from modern plants.  There is now a vineyard near Vesuvius producing a wine that is similar to wines from the Roman period however no exact reproduction of a Roman wine is possible since most of the European root stock was replaced with American root stock at the beginning of the 20th century due to an outbreak of a certain pest that was introduced from America.

Aureliane


-----Original Message-----
From: aerdensrw <aerdensrw@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 7:20 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the anything-but-poliitics thread;-)



P. Corva M. Hortensie Maior s.p.d.

Thank you so much for starting this thread. :) It's beginning to seem as if 'that crazy time of year' is 'always.'

The only definitely Roman wine I know of that still exists today is Falerno (Falernian). I'm sure there are probably others, but I'm not a connoisseur, unfortunately.

I wonder if the Romans had spumante, or is that a modern invention? I must go look on Google.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Maior" <rory12001@. ..> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> it's that crazy time of year again and what could be better than the
> anything-but- politics thread.
> Let's discuss, food, archeology, poetry but not ...p-!;-).
>
> I'll start it off with a question, are there any wines being produced today that are similar to Roman wine? are there strains of grape today
> that the Romans drank?
> optime valete
> Marca Hortensia Maior
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65630 From: Roger Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Censor Suffectus election
Sorry. I meant to title the original thread "Thoughts on the Censor Suffectus Election" but mistakenly put "Consul" instead. It is now corrected.

What can I say? I was quite tired when I wrote it last night. My apologies for any misuderstandings.

Lucius Quintius Constantius


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, politicog <politicog@...> wrote:
>
>
> Having just read from Livy's account of the dispute between censor Appius Claudius and one of the Tribunes about 316 B.C.E., has led me to the following thoughts on this election.
>
> There seems to have been a great expectation in Roma Antiqua that if, for any reason, there was a vacancy in the office of censors, it was expected (though not necessarily codified into law) that the remaing censor would resign. This seems to have been the case in either death or resignation of a censor. As far as I have been able to ascertain, Nova Roman law does not require the remaining censor to resign. If that is what we want to do, then we should adopt a lex or amend the Constitution to specifically state that if one censor resigns or otherwise vacates the office, the office of both censors is deemed vacant. Indeed, I believe the idea of two censors with staggered terms is to ensure some continuity in the office that needs to deal with citizenship and names issues.
>
> I do believe that one of the candidates is disqualified. I think consecutive terms means consecutive terms, and therefore someone who has just completed a term as censor is not qualified until a full two-year term has elapsed.
>
> Having said that, his opponent should not get too excited. In his postings regarding this campaign, I have seen a level of speech that goes way beyond the ordinary bounds of honest difference of opinion and debate. So far beyond that I cannot in conscience give a vote to him either.
>
> It has admittedly been some time since I voted in magisterial election. I would like to vote in this one, but if these are the only candidates available, I feel that I must abstain.
>
> So if the cista gives me the option of abstaining, I will do that. If not, I will sit out this election.
>
> Lucius Quintius Constantius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65631 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
The opinion of someone who quit NR for nearly five years with no communication.
When he returned he posted numerous posts that were aggravating, insulting, and useless.
The first person in the history of NR to begin a lawsuit when he did not get his way.
Someone who contnues to use the threat of legal action to accomplish his goals; whatever the hell they are.
Someone who doesn't contribute to the Sacra et Religio but feels he is qualified to criticize the members of the CP.
An empty wine sack full of fumes and dregs of better days.
Put them all together it spells S-U-L-L-A, a word that means excrement to me.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 8:53 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?



You know the answer to that, already.

Xtian pontiffs.
near lawsuit before - most likely to happen again if Modianus because censor
Declining NR organization.
Magistrates and their subordinates who have no respect for the law

Need I go on?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> > Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other
> > organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?
>
> Uh, you yourself are *currently* involved in an effort to create another
> organization that competes with Nova Roma.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that (I'm involved too, peripherally) .
>
> But how can you criticize someone else for doing a thing in the past while
> you're doing exactly the same right now?
>
> O.
>
> --
> Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
> author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards. com/
> CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico. net/
>

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65632 From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Would this be a case of "bulla-ing the cat"?

Aureliane


-----Original Message-----
From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens




Salve, Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
And ... do you have little bullas (I think that's right, the amulets babies and children wore) ready for them?  Of course, *attaching* them, and keeping them on, and undamaged may be a challenge few Roman mothers *ever* faced, LOL!
 
Vale et valete,
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65633 From: deciusiunius Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I'm feeling the love! It seems all my "friends" are coming out to say
> hello.


Hi Modianus. ;-)


You have such a martyr complex, looking and hoping for persecution around every corner. I was almost, sort of sticking up for you telling him to stick to more recent errors in judgment you've had. Don't tell me you've never made any.


Palladius



>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:26 PM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Octavius is right. Modianus has had much more recent lapses of judgment and
> > done real harm to Nova Roma far more recently--such as his "suit" against
> > Cincinnatus last year. Concentrate on things such that, rather than old
> > issues that never came to fruition.
> >
> > Palladius
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65634 From: Titus Iulius Sabinus Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
SALVE ET SALVETE!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:

> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.>>>

You don't have enough information to judge that. More than that, you don't want to take in consideration the NR CFO recent post and to accept that, at the end, the NR CFO has a more detailed picture about the subject than most of us, more credibility based by her professionalism demonstrated in the last two years of hard work ordering the NR finances.

It's amazing for me to see how some people jump in other people words, without discernment, sustaining a theory only to demonstrate their strong adherence to something and without taking in consideration the consequences of these uninspired actions.

VALE ET VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65635 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
>
>> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.>>>
>
> You don't have enough information to judge that.

I wonder how many of the people who obsess over "Maine Law" either...

a) drive over the speed limit
b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
c) smoke cannabis
d) play poker online for real money

...but then work themselves into a righteous indignation because somebody
forgot to submit a form.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65636 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Decio Iunio Palladio salutem dicit

Oh, of course I've made errors.  I think every magistrate in Nova Roma has made errors, we're all human and not a single one among us is perfect.  I would be a fool to assert that I'm without fault, or that I'm perfect.  I even acknowledged a couple of weeks ago that I would likely have handled the Cincinnatus situation differently -- do recall some of the discussions I have with Octavius on this e-mail list; however, I cannot go back and change the past.  What is done is done.  What I can do is learn from the mistakes I have made and try to become a better person.

And no.  I do not suffer from a martyr complex, nor am I hoping for persectution.  Keep in mind that I have been under some substantial fire recently (ie., Sulla, Caesar, et al).  My response to you was my way of saying that I am doing my best to not get too upset with all the mud flying around, and trying to remain stoic in my disposition.  It is obvious to me that not everyone in Nova Roma is my friend, and I acknowledge that while still trying to do the best I can.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:12 AM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I'm feeling the love! It seems all my "friends" are coming out to say
> hello.

Hi Modianus. ;-)

You have such a martyr complex, looking and hoping for persecution around every corner. I was almost, sort of sticking up for you telling him to stick to more recent errors in judgment you've had. Don't tell me you've never made any.

Palladius



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65637 From: Lucius Coruncanius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: 3 reasons to vote for Modianus
L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd.

1. His candidacy is legal, is not consecutive, despite the false impression his opponents wants to create around the people. The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy. Not pronouncing intercessio, our tribunes confirmed that.

2. He stepped forward on a candidacy to replace a censor who resigned with honor to protest to the bad and ill actions of some citizens who only seek revenge for past actions producing this way considerable damage to the NR reputation.  These citizens, some in the BoD, are the same who instead of campaign for his own candidate, are defaming the other candidate in an utter pitifull way, accusing of illegalities that proved to be false, even by the Maine's Attorney General itself.

3. His public actions in the past shows him as an impartial person, capable of putting the Res Publica first, specially when it conflicts with personal interests or friends.

Di vos incolumem custodiant.
--
L. Coruncanius Cato
Aedilis Curulis
Scriba Consulis Hispaniae

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65638 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
Ours, too. Tree houses, scratch trees in every corner, toys everywhere and those special paper bags you get in kitty catalogs. Our cats go crazy for those bags. They love to climb into them and pounce on them because of the sound. Like kids with boxes. :)


--- On Thu, 5/21/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> wrote:

From: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 1:28 AM

Salve Maxima Valeria,

<Believe me, I do understand what Livia and Buteo are saying about letting
cats roam free, but for some of us, that is just not possible. However, the
point I was trying to make is that, with the huge numbers <of cats in
desparate need of good homes, it seems a shame to not give them one just
because we can't let them roam. Better an indoor life than to see healthy
cats being euthanized because no one will <adopt them.

I agree 100%. My cats go in an out, but where I live they can go out my back
gate and run around in 10 acres of fields. Still though I am always worried
that Cupid who is nearly two and full of energy, will wander too far and get
hit by a car. When I lived in NYC my cats stayed in and they were prefectly
happy. They did get immensely fat though. They were like big 20 pound
purring pillows ha ha!! My mother lives on Staten Island and keeps her 3
cats in and they are also happy. The house is fill with these tree things
and tunnels for the cats to play. They love it.!

I'd love to see the cats in the stroller!! Adorable!

Vale,
Diana

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65639 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
I said it before and I will say it again - Sulla is a cancer on Nova Roma.
 
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis


--- On Thu, 5/21/09, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...> wrote:

From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 8:04 AM

The opinion of someone who quit NR for nearly five years with no communication.
When he returned he posted numerous posts that were aggravating, insulting, and useless.
The first person in the history of NR to begin a lawsuit when he did not get his way.
Someone who contnues to use the threat of legal action to accomplish his goals; whatever the hell they are.
Someone who doesn't contribute to the Sacra et Religio but feels he is qualified to criticize the members of the CP.
An empty wine sack full of fumes and dregs of better days.
Put them all together it spells S-U-L-L-A, a word that means excrement to me.

Fl. Galerius Aurelianus



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_ sulla@yahoo. com>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 8:53 am
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: All those who endorsed Modianus - Question for you?



You know the answer to that, already.

Xtian pontiffs.
near lawsuit before - most likely to happen again if Modianus because censor
Declining NR organization.
Magistrates and their subordinates who have no respect for the law

Need I go on?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> > Are you truly willing to join up with someone who has tried to create other
> > organizations that competed and tried to subvert Nova Roma? If so, why?
>
> Uh, you yourself are *currently* involved in an effort to create another
> organization that competes with Nova Roma.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that (I'm involved too, peripherally) .
>
> But how can you criticize someone else for doing a thing in the past while
> you're doing exactly the same right now?
>
> O.
>
> --
> Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
> author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards. com/
> CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico. net/
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65640 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Saving the Kittens
LOL I guess it is, although I suspect it will be the humans who end up with the bruises and the scratches. ;P
MVM
 

--- On Thu, 5/21/09, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...> wrote:

From: PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... <PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 8:09 AM

Would this be a case of "bulla-ing the cat"?

Aureliane


-----Original Message-----
From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@ comcast.net>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Saving the Kittens




Salve, Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
 
And ... do you have little bullas (I think that's right, the amulets babies and children wore) ready for them?  Of course, *attaching* them, and keeping them on, and undamaged may be a challenge few Roman mothers *ever* faced, LOL!
 
Vale et valete,
C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65641 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
Salve Octavius
 
a) drive over the speed limit
b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
c) smoke cannabis
d) play poker online for real money

 
You PROMISED not tell anybody about these things. Now everybody knows : (
 
Vale
 
Paulinus

 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: hucke@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:23:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus




>
>> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.>>>
>
> You don't have enough information to judge that.

I wonder how many of the people who obsess over "Maine Law" either...

a) drive over the speed limit
b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
c) smoke cannabis
d) play poker online for real money

...but then work themselves into a righteous indignation because somebody
forgot to submit a form.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@cynico. net), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards. com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico. net/

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65642 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
Oh busted!


--- On Thu, 5/21/09, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
To: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 10:01 AM

Salve Octavius
 
a) drive over the speed limit
b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
c) smoke cannabis
d) play poker online for real money

 
You PROMISED not tell anybody about these things. Now everybody knows : (
 
Vale
 
Paulinus

 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: hucke@cynico. net
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:23:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus




>
>> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.>>>
>
> You don't have enough information to judge that.

I wonder how many of the people who obsess over "Maine Law" either...

a) drive over the speed limit
b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
c) smoke cannabis
d) play poker online for real money

...but then work themselves into a righteous indignation because somebody
forgot to submit a form.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@cynico. net), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards. com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico. net/


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65643 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Be Wary of Potitus
Salvete omnes,

1. M. Valerius Potitus had a raving, manic temper tantrum right on the ML due to his egoism after only one disagreement then resigned as quaestor after a scant 3 months in office.

2. M. Valerius Potitus is hypocritical and his actions indicate a lack of consistency and an inability to work in a team.

3. M. Valerius Potitus a person who has demonstrated a lack of mature judgment and a lack of dignitas - it may very well be an error to rely on his words.


Valete,

L. Julia Aquila
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65644 From: D. Boyle Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
Equestria Iunia Laeca M. Valerio Potito sal.

Please state why you believe Modianus' candidacy is illegal. From
what I see, it is perfectly legal.

According to the Lex Cornelia Iunia de definitione intervallorum
magistratuum, which states: "No person shall hold the office of
censor consecutively...", Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus is eligible
stand for Censor Suffectus.

"Hold" being defined as "To have as a responsible position or a
privilege"
http://www.answers.com/hold

"Consecutive" being defined as "Following one after another without
interruption"
http://www.answers.com/consecutive

1. Whomever is elected as Censor Suffectus would by definition have a
predecessor, and that person would not be himself, and therefore could
not be considered holding office consecutively.

2. The fixed period of time until a new election for the office must
take place and the period of time the elected person is authorized to
hold that office, can be different, and in this case, is different.
That is, GPL was elected to a two year term, but only held the
position four months and 18 days before resigning that authority.

3. Once elected, the Censor Suffectus will be authorized to hold that
office for the unexpired portion of GPL's elected term.

4. The Censor Suffectus is responsible for the time which he has
"authority" to hold the office.

5. Lex Cornelia Iunia de definitione intervallorum magistratuum is
written in plain meaning text and does not open itself up for
interpretation.

6. Whomever is elected as Censor Suffectus will have the authority to
hold the office of censor beginning on the date elected, not
retroactive to January 1, 2009, or else his predecessor's acts would
all be nullified.

7. If this person is Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus, it will be at least
six months since the last time he held that office, and subsequent to
the time GPL held that office.

8. He will not be 'holding the office of censor consecutively' per
the plain meaning of the Lex Cornelia Iunia de definitione
intervallorum magistratuum.

Therefore, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus is eligible stand for Censor
Suffectus.

Vale.



On May 21, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Steve Moore wrote:
> M. Valerius Potitus SPD.
> Quirites, we stand at an important juncture, a critical point in
> time. The election of a Censor is extremely important because of the
> Censor’s power to create and remove Senators. It is vital that we
> elect someone who will perform this function for the good of Nova
> Roma as a whole, not to bring glory to himself or promote his own
> party or carry on his own vendettas. We need someone of good
> character, who faces reality and works to correct problems.
>
> With this in mind, I cannot endorse Modianus. Here are the three
> main reasons why:
>
> 1. His candidacy is illegal, because he seeks a consecutive term.
>
>
>
> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in
> compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.
>
>
>
> 3. His character, shown by his public actions, both in Nova Roma and
> outside, has been revealed to be that on a scheming, plotting, self-
> absorbed individual who will not work with a colleague, who will not
> show loyalty to his friends, who will use any opportunity to weep
> “crocodile tears” in the name of moderation, forgiveness and
> religion, all the while planning how to stab someone in the back.
>
>
>
> I have met many people like Modinaus in my business life and in my
> personal life, and I can tell you that he is nothing more than a
> hypocrite playing on the gullibility of good people. Let’s face it:
> good people want to believe the CFO of an organization when she says
> we are in compliance, good people want to believe that old enemies
> can become reconciled. But when Reality (who should be a goddess)
> shows that NR is not in compliance, it behooves the good person to
> say so and work to correct the problem. When Reality and her sister
> Experience show that a person is not to be trusted, it behooves the
> good person to speak out.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65645 From: L Julia Aquila Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems
Salvete omnes,

The offering for this hour is from Horace:
Horace Epode XVI.
TO THE ROMAN PEOPLE.
Now is another age worn away by civil wars, and Rome herself falls by her own strength. Whom neither the bordering Marsi could destroy, nor the Etrurian band of the menacing Porsena, nor the rival valor of Capua, nor the bold Spartacus, and the Gauls perfideous with their innovations; nor did the fierce Germany subdue with its blue-eyed youth, nor Annibal, detested by parents; but we, an impious race, whose blood is devoted to perdition, shall destroy her: and this land shall again be possessed by wild beasts. The victorious barbarian, alas! shall trample upon the ashes of the city, and the horsemen shall smite it with the sounding hoofs; and (horrible to see!) he shall insultingly disperse the bones of Romulus, which [as yet] are free from the injuries of wind and sun. Perhaps you all in general, or the better part of you, are inquisitive to know, what may be expedient, in order to escape [such] dreadful evils. There can be no determination better than this; namely, to go wherever our feet will carry us, wherever the south or boisterous south-west shall summon us through the waves; in the same manner as the state of the Phocaeans fled, after having uttered execrations [against such as should return], and left their fields and proper dwellings and temples to be inhabited by boars and ravenous wolves. Is this agreeable? has any one a better scheme to advise? Why do we delay to go on ship-board under an auspicious omen? But first let us swear to these conditions–the stones shall swim upward, lifted from the bottom of the sea, as soon as it shall not be impious to return; nor let it grieve us to direct our sails homeward, when the Po shall wash the tops of the Matinian summits; or the lofty Apennine shall remove into the sea, or a miraculous appetite shall unite monsters by a strange kind of lust; Insomuch that tigers may delight to couple with hinds, and the dove be polluted with the kite; nor the simple herds may dread the brindled lions, and the he-goat, grown smooth, may love the briny main. After having sworn to these things, and whatever else may cut off the pleasing: hope of returning, let us go, the whole city of us, or at least that part which is superior to the illiterate mob: let the idle and despairing part remain upon these inauspicious habitations. Ye, that have bravery, away with effeminate grief, and fly beyond the Tuscan shore. The ocean encircling the land awaits us; let us seek the happy plains and prospering Islands, where the untilled land yearly produces corn, and the unpruned vineyard punctually flourishes; and where the branch of the never-failing olive blossoms forth, and the purple fig adorns its native tree: honey distills from the hollow oaks; the light water bounds down from the high mountains with a murmuring pace. There the she-goats come to the milk-pails of their own accord, and the friendly flock return with their udders distended; nor does the bear at evening growl about the sheepfold, nor does the rising ground swell with vipers; and many more things shall we, happy [Romans], view with admiration: how neither the rainy east lays waste the corn-fields with profuse showers, nor is the fertile seed burned by a dry glebe; the king of gods moderating both [extremes]. The pine rowed by the Argonauts never attempted to come hither; nor did the lascivious [Medea] of Colchis set her foot [in this place]: hither the Sidonian mariners never turned their sail-yards, nor the toiling crew of Ulysses. No contagious distempers hurt the flocks; nor does the fiery violence of any constellation scorch the herd. Jupiter set apart these shores for a pious people, when he debased the golden age with brass: with brass, then with iron he hardened the ages; from which there shall be a happy escape for the good, according to my predictions.
XVI
Altera iam teritur bellis civilibus aetas,
suis et ipsa Roma viribus ruit.
quam neque finitimi valuerunt perdere Marsi
minacis aut Etrusca Porsenae manus,
aemula nec virtus Capuae nec Spartacus acer
novisque rebus infidelis Allobrox
nec fera caerulea domuit Germania pube
parentibusque abominatus Hannibal:
inpia perdemus devoti sanguinis aetas
ferisque rursus occupabitur solum:
barbarus heu cineres insistet victor et Vrbem
eques sonante verberabit ungula,
quaeque carent ventis et solibus ossa Quirini,
(nefas videre) dissipabit insolens.
forte quid expediat communiter aut melior pars,
malis carere quaeritis laboribus;
nulla sit hac potior sententia: Phocaeorum
velut profugit exsecrata civitas
agros atque lares patrios habitandaque fana
apris reliquit et rapacibus lupis,
ire, pedes quocumque ferent, quocumque per undas
Notus vocabit aut protervos Africus.
sic placet? an melius quis habet suadere? Secunda
ratem occupare quid moramur alite?
sed iuremus in haec: 'simul imis saxa renarint
vadis levata, ne redire sit nefas;
neu conversa domum pigeat dare lintea, quando
Padus Matina laverit cacumina,
in mare seu celsus procurrerit Appenninus
novaque monstra iunxerit libidine
mirus amor, iuvet ut tigris subsidere cervis,
adulteretur et columba miluo,
credula nec ravos timeant armenta leones
ametque salsa levis hircus aequora.'
haec et quae poterunt reditus abscindere dulcis
eamus omnis exsecrata civitas
aut pars indocili melior grege; mollis et exspes
inominata perpremat cubilia.
vos, quibus est virtus, muliebrem tollite luctum,
Etrusca praeter et volate litora.
nos manet Oceanus circum vagus: arva beata
petamus, arva divites et insulas,
reddit ubi cererem tellus inarata quotannis
et inputata floret usque vinea,
germinat et numquam fallentis termes olivae
suamque pulla ficus ornat arborem,
mella cava manant ex ilice, montibus altis
levis crepante lympha desilit pede.
illic iniussae veniunt ad mulctra capellae
refertque tenta grex amicus ubera
nec vespertinus circumgemit ursus ovile
nec intumescit alta viperis humus;
pluraque felices mirabimur, ut neque largis
aquosus Eurus arva radat imbribus,
pinguia nec siccis urantur semina glaebis,
utrumque rege temperante caelitum.
non huc Argoo contendit remige pinus
neque inpudica Colchis intulit pedem,
non huc Sidonii torserunt cornua nautae,
laboriosa nec cohors Vlixei.
nulla nocent pecori contagia, nullius astri
gregem aestuosa torret impotentia.
Iuppiter illa piae secrevit litora genti,
ut inquinavit aere tempus aureum,
aere, dehinc ferro duravit saecula, quorum
piis secunda vate me datur fuga.

Valete,
Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65646 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor
 
"Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet" 








To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: l.coruncanius_cato@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 15:47:40 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] 3 reasons to vote for Modianus






L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd.

1. His candidacy is legal, is not consecutive, despite the false impression his opponents wants to create around the people. The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy. Not pronouncing intercessio, our tribunes confirmed that.

2. He stepped forward on a candidacy to replace a censor who resigned with honor to protest to the bad and ill actions of some citizens who only seek revenge for past actions producing this way considerable damage to the NR reputation.  These citizens, some in the BoD, are the same who instead of campaign for his own candidate, are defaming the other candidate in an utter pitifull way, accusing of illegalities that proved to be false, even by the Maine's Attorney General itself.

3. His public actions in the past shows him as an impartial person, capable of putting the Res Publica first, specially when it conflicts with personal interests or friends.

Di vos incolumem custodiant.
--
L. Coruncanius Cato
Aedilis Curulis
Scriba Consulis Hispaniae


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65647 From: Matt Hucke Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A promise is a promise Mr. Frodo
> Salve Octavius
> a) drive over the speed limit
> b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
> c) smoke cannabis
> d) play poker online for real money
>
> You PROMISED not tell anybody about these things. Now everybody knows : (

It's OK, as long as you don't do all four at the same time. That's dangerous.

--
Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65648 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have imperium bearing magistrates which you are not.  Checking qualifications, in this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship, etc...  Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was censor before, and before you became censor now.  They are well aware of the office of censor and the duties invested.  That "The Censores shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not a part of the office of censor.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor 




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65649 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
Thank you, Maior.
A friend started a search for cat amulets and wow, are there tons of them out there! As she browsed through all the pages of stuff, she came upon this lovely prayer to Bast for the protection of a cat:
 
Bast of beauty and of grace,
Protectress of the feline race,
Shield {name of pet} from all hurt and harm,
And keep him/her always safe and warm.
Watch over {name of pet} from day to day,
And guide him/her home if he/she should stray.
And grant him/her much happiness,
And a good life free of strife and stress.

by Dorothy Morrison



--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 8:18 PM

Salvete Messalina Caecaque;
here is a link to a photo of Triarius' boys wearing bullas, bullas could be made of leather, gold, etc..
you can buy a bulla here for 30 euros:
http://armillum. com/tienda/ index.php? main_page= index
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Bulla
here's a link to children's page in the NRwiki: it has toys,stories, games etc.
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Children _(Nova_Roma)# Toys_and_ Games
optime valete
Maior

In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <violetphearsen@ ...> wrote:
>
> LMHO
> Yep, cats are like that. :)
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: C. Maria Caeca <shoshanahathaway@ ...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Baby Amulets (Was Saving the Kittens)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 7:46 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Salve Valeria Messalina, et salvete omnes,
>  
> I've read about them, but I'd have to do some serious research to find out what they contained, exactly, and who made them.  Of course, that's only the *first* part.  Ever tried to permanently attach something to a cat, let alone a kitten?  LOL!  I've sat and watched some of my kitties detach themselves, efficiently and expeditiously, from flea collars.  One even brought hers to me, dumped it at my feet and strutted her little stuff out of the room, the brat!
>  
> Vale et Valias,
> C. Maria Caeca
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65650 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: 3 Reasons to Not Vote for Modianus
I drive the speed of traffic and if anyone knows anything about Arizona we have traffic cameras EVERYWHERE. I have not had a speeding ticket in about 11 years.

I do not have unreported income to the IRS - the company I work for is getting audited (hopefully in the closing months of the audit process)

I do not smoke pot - I tried it 3 times - each time got anxiety attacks - not a fun experience.

And, nope never played online poker. I really suck at those types of games though I enjoy watching Texas Hold'em and my brother in law is extremely good at the game.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >> 2. He denies reality, and even now affirms that Nova Roma is in compliance with the laws of the State of Maine.>>>
> >
> > You don't have enough information to judge that.
>
> I wonder how many of the people who obsess over "Maine Law" either...
>
> a) drive over the speed limit
> b) have undeclared income that the IRS doesn't know about
> c) smoke cannabis
> d) play poker online for real money
>
> ...but then work themselves into a righteous indignation because somebody
> forgot to submit a form.
>
> --
> Matt Hucke (hucke@...), programmer.
> author, Graveyards of Illinois - http://graveyards.com/
> CYNICO.NET - hosting from $8.33/month; domains $13 - http://cynico.net/
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65651 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Salve Modianus
 
As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their office.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: tau.athanasios@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have imperium bearing magistrates which you are not.  Checking qualifications, in this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship, etc...  Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was censor before, and before you became censor now.  They are well aware of the office of censor and the duties invested.  That "The Censores shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not a part of the office of censor.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> wrote:


Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor 


"Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet"


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65653 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Salve Censor,
 
If this is your official opinion, you should follow the due process of law.
We in Nova Roma have had enough with words that are not supported by facts and actions.
 
Vale,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Modianus
 
As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their office.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

From: tau.athanasios@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have imperium bearing magistrates which you are not.  Checking qualifications, in this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship, etc...  Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was censor before, and before you became censor now.  They are well aware of the office of censor and the duties invested.  That "The Censores shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not a part of the office of censor.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor 


"Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet"


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65655 From: David Kling Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As usual you feel slighted for not being consulted.  The truth is you were not needed.  The law states "shall assist in such efforts to the best of their ability.."  The consules, having worked as censorial scribes for years didn't need your assistance nor did they need the assistance of rogatores.  If our consules are so incompetant, as you claim they are, why don't you dismiss them from YOUR cohores?  Advise them that you no longer need their assistance as scribae?  You don't because you know they are far more competant than yourself and you would be crippled without the work of Complutensus and Severus.

This has nothing to do with the law, and everything that do with the fact that you do not want me as your colleague.  Your latest attempt at senate appointments was considered illegal by the majority of tribunes, and yet the tribunes didn't consider my candidacy as illegal.  Seems that you have not been exercising due diligence in the exercise of your own office.  No wonder the consules didn't feel it necessary to consult with you.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Modianus
 
As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their office.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65656 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Salve Consul
 
This the letter I sent to the Tribunes. I have received one response so far and I await the response of the other four.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 
***********************************************************************
Salvete Tribunes

I would like to inform you that in my opinion the law is being violated by the candidacy of an individual for Censor.  This individual has already served in this office and has not been out of office long enough to qualify for a second term.  The letter and the sprit of the law are clear, no one can serve as Censor in two consecutive terms.
 
Laenas was elected for the term January 1, 2762 through December 31, 2763. The person elected will finish this term, a term immediately after the term that one candidate has already served as Censor.
 
It seems that come hell or high water this candidacy is being protected by those who should be disqualifying it. Given this fact and the additional fact that the Censor, yes our sole Censor, was not included in the determination of his eligibility as the law requires I would be, if legally able, be placing a Nota on this individual which would have the effect of removing his ability to candidate and vote in this election. If imposed the Nota would also have had the effect of reducing him to the status of a capite censi making him ineligible for election as he is ineligible to serve.

The Consuls should apply the law correctly and remove this candidacy from the election. If it is that important to the future of the republic that this individual be elected Censor again then he can legally stand in a little less than one year and seven months.

I believe that this is important enough to have it as part of the public record that I would have acted, if legally permitted to do so, to prevent someone from serving as Censor when clearly they can not legally do so.
 
In the event that this person is elected Censor, even when he legally can not serve, what are my legal options in dealing with this situation.  And no resigning as Censor is not one of them.
 

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: m.iul.severus.consul@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:37:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Salve Censor,
 
If this is your official opinion, you should follow the due process of law.
We in Nova Roma have had enough with words that are not supported by facts and actions.
 
Vale,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> wrote:


Salve Modianus
 
As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their office.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

From: tau.athanasios@ gmail.com
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have imperium bearing magistrates which you are not.  Checking qualifications, in this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship, etc...  Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was censor before, and before you became censor now.  They are well aware of the office of censor and the duties invested.  That "The Censores shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not a part of the office of censor.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> wrote:


Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor 


"Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet"




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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65657 From: Gaius Equitius Cato Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Cato Iulio Severo sal.

Salve!

"We in Nova Roma"? Are you suggesting that the censor of the Respublica is somehow not part of Nova Roma?

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Censor,
>
> If this is your official opinion, you should follow the due process of law.
> We in Nova Roma have had enough with words that are not supported by facts
> and actions.
>
> Vale,
>
> M•IVL•SEVERVS
> CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
>
> SENATOR
> CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICO
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
> spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Modianus
> >
> > As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I
> > have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the
> > Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their
> > office.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > From: tau.athanasios@...
> > Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:49 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.
> >
> >
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit
> >
> > As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have
> > imperium bearing magistrates which you are not. Checking qualifications, in
> > this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship,
> > etc... Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was
> > censor before, and before you became censor now. They are well aware of the
> > office of censor and the duties invested. That "The Censores shall assist
> > in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some
> > sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not
> > a part of the office of censor.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
> > spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Coruncanius Cato
> >
> > You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
> >
> > Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this
> > responsibility?
> >
> > Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
> >
> > B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all
> > reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever
> > qualifications are required by law.* The Censors shall assist in such
> > efforts as to the best of their ability. *
> >
> > I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova
> > Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the
> > term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
> >
> > His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that. It is out an out
> > illegal.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> > Censor
> >
> >
> > "Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 65659 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-05-21
Subject: Re: A candidacy of dubious legality.
Salve Censor,
 
Well, thank you for informing the Quirites well after you had initiated some legal action. Meanwhile, you have been just attacking and trying to disqualify not only an individual candidate, but the magistrates who decided to allow his candidature, after a thorough reading and interpretation of the law.
Yes, interpretation: we the Consuls have imperium, in case that somebody has forgotten this.
 
Vale,
 
M•IVL•SEVERVS
CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Consul
 
This the letter I sent to the Tribunes. I have received one response so far and I await the response of the other four.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 
***********************************************************************
Salvete Tribunes

I would like to inform you that in my opinion the law is being violated by the candidacy of an individual for Censor.  This individual has already served in this office and has not been out of office long enough to qualify for a second term.  The letter and the sprit of the law are clear, no one can serve as Censor in two consecutive terms.
 
Laenas was elected for the term January 1, 2762 through December 31, 2763. The person elected will finish this term, a term immediately after the term that one candidate has already served as Censor.
 
It seems that come hell or high water this candidacy is being protected by those who should be disqualifying it. Given this fact and the additional fact that the Censor, yes our sole Censor, was not included in the determination of his eligibility as the law requires I would be, if legally able, be placing a Nota on this individual which would have the effect of removing his ability to candidate and vote in this election. If imposed the Nota would also have had the effect of reducing him to the status of a capite censi making him ineligible for election as he is ineligible to serve.

The Consuls should apply the law correctly and remove this candidacy from the election. If it is that important to the future of the republic that this individual be elected Censor again then he can legally stand in a little less than one year and seven months.

I believe that this is important enough to have it as part of the public record that I would have acted, if legally permitted to do so, to prevent someone from serving as Censor when clearly they can not legally do so.
 
In the event that this person is elected Censor, even when he legally can not serve, what are my legal options in dealing with this situation.  And no resigning as Censor is not one of them.
 

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor

From: m.iul.severus.consul@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:37:57 -0700

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Salve Censor,
 
If this is your official opinion, you should follow the due process of law.
We in Nova Roma have had enough with words that are not supported by facts and actions.
 
Vale,

M•IVL•SEVERVS
CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICO
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Modianus
 
As usual the question asked is not the one that was answered. As Censor I have a legally prescribed role that the Rogatores do not. Once again the Consuls have failed to exercise due diligence in the exercise of their office.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

From: tau.athanasios@...
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 14:13:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] A candidacy of dubious legality.



Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

As censor it is not up to you to interpret law, that is why we have imperium bearing magistrates which you are not.  Checking qualifications, in this instance, is limited to such factors as eligible age, citizenship, etc...  Our current consules have worked in the censores office before I was censor before, and before you became censor now.  They are well aware of the office of censor and the duties invested.  That "The Censores shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability" does not mean you have some sort of "veto" power and can interpret the law as you see fit -- that is not a part of the office of censor.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:


Salve Coruncanius Cato
 
You said in part "The rogatores checked and approved his candidacy."
 
Can you please show me where in the law the rogatores are given this responsibility?
 
Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum (Nova Roma)
 
B. The presiding magistrate shall have the responsibility for taking all reasonable precautions to ensure that candidates for a vote hold whatever qualifications are required by law. The Censors shall assist in such efforts as to the best of their ability.
 
I am the SOLE Censor currently in office. I am in office according to Nova Roman law and I do not believe Modianus can serve legally as Censor as the term is the same one he could not have stood for in December.
 
His candidacy is of dubious legality. No check that.  It is out an out illegal.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor 


"Commodum ex iniuria sua nemo habere debet"




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