Q. Caelia Laeta, with emphasis on the Laeta, omnibus SPD.


Indeed, conventus are afoot (it's 4th declension, right?) and the aedilician cohors is busy plotting. Despite my despotic urges to arrange the North American conventus activity schedule as I see fit, it seems more prudent to actually ask the people what they'd like to do, if only so I can pretend you all had a say in it. Bread and circuses, amici, bread and circuses.

We can do bread, actually, although a circus might be a bit more difficult. Would you like a circus? How about a Roman dinner? An academic talk on ancient Roman sumptuary laws? A 'make your own tunic' workshop, perhaps prior to a religious ritual, so we can all look the part?

Talk, cives, please talk! Tell the cohors what you'd like, or we'll give you what WE want. Do you really want to take that chance?
(Hint: pedicures at 10, gossip and massages til two, then tea and gin til someone gets inappropriate.)


Bene valete!

Cato Moravio Piscino sal.

Salve!

Yep, as soon as I saw Aurelianus' request, I knew this was coming. How about let me worry about my own private cultus and you worry about yours?

Have you ever read our Constitution?

"Complete authority over their own personal and household rites, rituals, and beliefs, pagan or otherwise; except where this Constitution mandates participation in the rites of the Religio Romana, such as the case of magistrates and Senators" (Const. N.R. II.B.1)

and

"...publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners." (op.cit. VI.A)

So you tell me: are you now requiring that every single magistrate or citizen needs to practice the religio as their private cultus for their edicts/oaths etc. to have any meaning? Because you are requiring me to, as "Invoking the Gods falsely is a crime against the Gods", and every single magistrate takes an oath by the Gods of Rome.

Vale!

Cato

C. Petronius C. Catonis.p.d.,

> Have you ever read our Constitution?

I think that the problem is not with the Constitution or the laws of Nova Roma, but with the orders of your god, YHWH.

YHWH said that he is a jealous god, he wants to be worshipped as one. He punish the persons who turn away from him. And his son, your Jesus, had the same need of exclusivity."Who is not with me, is against me".

So how can you think that it possible to you, in respect and religion toward your jealous god, to swear by other gods and goddesses.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus T. Flavio Aquilae salutem dicit

Thank you for your support and kind words.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Titus Flavius Aquila <titus.aquila@...> wrote:

I call upon the citizens of Nova Roma to vote for K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

 

Optime valete,

T. Flavius Aquila

L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd. Sorry for the delay. The video was made by students in Lucentum. It's a bit far from where I'm now. BTW, there are some roman settlements nearby. They where discovered during a project to build a 'sprawl', they were documented... and covered again. One of these days I will go investigate that and post the results :) Di vos incolumem custodiant. -- L. Coruncanius Cato Aedilis Curulis Scriba Consulis Hispaniae --- El lun, 25/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> escribió: De: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Videos about Ancient Rome Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Fecha: lunes, 25 mayo, 2009 6:24 Salvete, oohh! Julia Aquila had to post a flood of interesting posts and links just when I was unable to read email because of real-life occupation with Floralia! But now I had time to watch these. I have to say the Beatles video was totally incomprehensible, unlike the video on Theseus and Ariadne. It's worth seeing the last part too of the latter: http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=thya22SNCcg& feature=related True, it has the credits, but also the end of the story. Judging from the credits this is a school project by first-year Catalonian high-school students. Congratulations to them! They have a beautiful and clear pronunciation and everything is perfectly understandable. They used very basic vocabulary, which is almost totally the same in modern Greek too. The plus is that Spanish and Greek accents are really very similar, so it makes their project more credible. What a little jewel! I wish we had done something like that at high school! True, there weren't the technical means to make videos back then, but our Latin and Greek teacher never thought to make us do a play. Maybe our new aedilis curulis could go do some recruiting for NR among last year students in that school. Surely we need people like that in NR! Valete, Livia > > Salvete omnes, > > A bit of comedy first: > Ovid's Pyramus and Thisbe performed by the Beatles > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=DOpEZM6OEvI > > > This is the tale of Theseus and Ariadne, and Greek but I thought I would slip it in, I suppose I could say it is Plutarch's version thereby it would be by a Greek who was a Roman citizen... anyway it is very enjoyable despite the language barrier, I was told it was filmed in Greece but it's Spain, and the costumes and scenery are beautiful. Oh and please forgive the occasional use of tennis shoes.: > Pars 1 > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=B_5DS4bS3ds& eurl=http% 3A%2F%2Feclassic s%2Ening% 2Ecom2Fvideo2Fo2 Dminotayros& feature=player_ embedded > I did not include Par 2 because most of it is credits. > > Valete, > Julia >

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Woolwine

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:20 AM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true

So you have a choice to make - 1 a lawbreaker. 2 someone you think might quite. Interesting choice.

I think its easy - Cato for censor.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Terry Boyle" <twboyle@... > wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> I see two concerns with your response. The first being that we cannot get any level of guarantee that you won't abruptly quit if elected censor when the pressure gets too be to much. The second is, I feel you abused your power as a senator by calling for the removal of the consuls without cause on the ML and bellyaching about laws being broken. The general populace believes a Senator has inside knowledge. This was a blatant abuse of power for political reasons. If it wasn't than you wouldn't have suddenly dropped the charges.
>
> Vale,
>
> QID
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Equitius Cato
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:48 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato QID sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> Of course you've seen candidates endorse themselves! Whenever they declare a candidacy for something they are saying, "I have what it takes to get this job done - and more!"
>
> Perhaps I have more to learn, technical-minded, than the other gentleman.
>
> But there is a huge, vast, yawning chasm of a difference between learning technical stuff and a commitment to doing what is best regardless of who may have (or may not have) a particular interest in the outcome.
>
> As for resigning - yep, I did it! And yep, it was a mistake. How can we guarantee that the other candidate won't abuse his power in office again if he's elected? There are no guarantees in this world - ever - but there you go.
>
> You just don't.
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Terry Boyle" <twboyle@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> >
> > I have to say that you have chutzpah. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone endorse themselves before. Comparing resumes, your candidate is the less qualified one. I also have a problem with your candidate abruptly quitting the Senate. What type of guarantee do we have that your candidate will not jump ship once things get too hot in the kitchen next time?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > QID
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gaius Equitius Cato
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:25 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true
> >
>

Salve Amice
 
It is not a crime to resign from Nova Roma. 
 
Cato made a mistake and fixed it. A majority of the Senate even voted to wave the 90 day waiting period so he could come back sooner and not later.
 
We have one candidate who can not, by law serve, and another one who can.
 
Please vote for Cato.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

---

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: twboyle@...
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true

Salve Laeta and good morning!

Nashville is called the "armpit of the south" because of August and its oppressive heat. One hundred degrees is not unusual, with or without the heat index. The best time to visit Nashville is in spring and fall. In August we get heat waves where air does not move.
Not only that but those first two weeks are incredibly busy and congested with traffic as parents flood the shops getting their children ready for school which begins here in the third week of August. I even close down the meetings from the Parthenon Mystery Temple for the entire month. If I am to participate, which I would very much like to, I will have to reschedule nearly two weeks of already planned and paid for vacation, because I, like many other Nashvillians, planned an escape to the mountains following a visit to my best friend who lives on a Lake. Our summers here persist way into September. Just my opinion but it is a little too late to be planning for August, October would be much better and more conducive to walking tours and there is so much to do in October. With the exception of August, I plan at least two events a month plus a huge getaway each year and they book up fast; planning should be done six months in advance.

I do have memberships at the conservatory at the Parthenon , to the Frist (including member only events) etc, where I can take in up to four people and if you are stuck on that date and I cannot reschedule my vacation, I will gladly lend them to you and also help you with an itinerary of what is going on. There is also the Tennessee State Musuem, which has a bona fide Egyptian Mummy along with historic Tennessee from its original indigenous occupants to the 1800's and the other building is the Civil War Museum. Around that area is some of the most incredible architecture and statuary within walking distance. I can arrange discounts for the Symphony or the Ballet if anyone is interested although not much planned for August (a minor event at the Symphony, no Ballet), but September and October are fabulous. The same for TPAC, the only performance right now in August is August 22nd. There is also the first Friday Art crawl, which is a lot of fun, a free shuttle brings you to different art gallery openings that offer free wine and snacks. I might could also arrange a free meeting space at the UU church, and possibly can get use of an entire house on the property because of our non-profit statusÂ…for meetings. We have one Italian restaurant, Valentino's that I would consider first class, a couple of marvelous Indian restaurants and a few other gems but mostly it is the usual fare. I can also take you on a tour that you won't get on any tour guide but Nashville is hilly so good walking shoes are important. One thing we must not miss is a trip to Calvary/Mt Olivet Cemetery, just the Porch of the Carytids is reason enough, there are so many fine and grand Greco-Roman monuments it is worth a trip and a tour could be arranged. Belmont Mansion in this respect is also interesting. There is also the Sudekum Planetarium

One huge consideration: if you would like to have an event at the Parthenon in, well, anytime in August, you can just about forget about it, it is booked up. Not only that but Centennial park, where it is located, is packed with some kind of event in every corner. I am involved in the Shakespeare festival in the park which runs through august to Labor Day and many times we can't hear the actors speak due to the "dueling concerts" appointed throughout the park. This year we are offering The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (abridged) and The Taming of the Shrew from August 13th to September 13th. The Tennessee State Fair is September 11th to 20th. Nashville Greek Festival is on September 5th- 7th 2008 and that is amazing, ok so the ouzo helped;) Also in September the TACA Crafts Fair in Centennial Park, a truly amazing event right next to the Parthenon. Even better than that in the same location on October 3rd is a Celebration of Cultures, this is incredible and I see not reason why we could not have a booth there, and also have a ceremony. October 10th is Octoberfest. Music City Jazz, Blues & Heritage Festival at Riverfront Park Sept. 5th to 7th, another excellent event. Of course we could arrange a ride down the river in a river boat, with dinner even. In September it is still warm enough to go to the Lake, in particular one private area where I perform ritual and another, a flat falls, which is also secluded.

Here is a list of the exhibitions at the Frist:
https://www.fristcenter.org/site/exhibitions/future.aspx
We might could arrange an architectural tour of the Frist building which is interesting.
The Parthenon, which includes, besides the obvious, magnificent exhibitions:
http://www.nashville.gov/parthenon/
Metro Park Events calendar:
http://www.nashville.gov/parks/pdfs/EventsCalendar.pdf
Sudekum Planetarium
http://www.sudekumplanetarium.com/exhibits/index.shtml

I will be willing to help organize from this end, here in Nashville, might make things go a bit smoother.

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "q_caelia_laeta" <q.caelia.laeta@...> wrote:
>
> Q. Caelia Laeta, with emphasis on the Laeta, omnibus SPD.
>
>
> Indeed, conventus are afoot (it's 4th declension, right?) and the aedilician cohors is busy plotting. Despite my despotic urges to arrange the North American conventus activity schedule as I see fit, it seems more prudent to actually ask the people what they'd like to do, if only so I can pretend you all had a say in it. Bread and circuses, amici, bread and circuses.
>
> We can do bread, actually, although a circus might be a bit more difficult. Would you like a circus? How about a Roman dinner? An academic talk on ancient Roman sumptuary laws? A 'make your own tunic' workshop, perhaps prior to a religious ritual, so we can all look the part?
>
> Talk, cives, please talk! Tell the cohors what you'd like, or we'll give you what WE want. Do you really want to take that chance?
> (Hint: pedicures at 10, gossip and massages til two, then tea and gin til someone gets inappropriate.)
>
>
> Bene valete!
>

Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete.

It would be nice if those of you who constantly attack me by complaining that I always bring up my private cultus up would please take note of this.

We now have the Pontifex Maximus and another citizen declaring that anyone who practices any religious belief privately other than polytheism cannot possibly be a good citizen or magistrate.

I urge them both to read the Constitution.

Valete.

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catonis.p.d.,
>
> > Have you ever read our Constitution?
>
> I think that the problem is not with the Constitution or the laws of Nova Roma, but with the orders of your god, YHWH.
>
> YHWH said that he is a jealous god, he wants to be worshipped as one. He punish the persons who turn away from him. And his son, your Jesus, had the same need of exclusivity."Who is not with me, is against me".
>
> So how can you think that it possible to you, in respect and religion toward your jealous god, to swear by other gods and goddesses.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

Salvete,

>We can do bread, actually, although a circus might be a bit more >difficult. Would you like a circus? How about a Roman dinner? An >academic talk on ancient Roman sumptuary laws? A 'make your own >tunic' workshop, perhaps prior to a religious ritual, so we can all >look the part?

All sounds good to me. The UU complex would be good for this and similar "circuses" have been done there, but also at the Celebration of Cultures in the shadow of the Parthenon is also very doable, depending upon our budget and it would be done in the first week of October.

Valete,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "q_caelia_laeta" <q.caelia.laeta@...> wrote:
>
> Q. Caelia Laeta, with emphasis on the Laeta, omnibus SPD.
>
>
> Indeed, conventus are afoot (it's 4th declension, right?) and the aedilician cohors is busy plotting. Despite my despotic urges to arrange the North American conventus activity schedule as I see fit, it seems more prudent to actually ask the people what they'd like to do, if only so I can pretend you all had a say in it. Bread and circuses, amici, bread and circuses.
>
> We can do bread, actually, although a circus might be a bit more difficult. Would you like a circus? How about a Roman dinner? An academic talk on ancient Roman sumptuary laws? A 'make your own tunic' workshop, perhaps prior to a religious ritual, so we can all look the part?
>
> Talk, cives, please talk! Tell the cohors what you'd like, or we'll give you what WE want. Do you really want to take that chance?
> (Hint: pedicures at 10, gossip and massages til two, then tea and gin til someone gets inappropriate.)
>
>
> Bene valete!
>

salvete,
i announce my resignation of citizenship of Nova Roma and what ever post I hold, I have no reason please do not ask.

Vale,
Lucia Herennia Mento

Luz Morales

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete
>
> Yes Yes
>
> honey and, say olives, in amphorae
>
> dates, pine nuts, NR spices, NR Cookbook ,vinegar, mustard, and liquamen
>

> Salvete omnes

Dormouse in anchovy sauce, or perhaps just fish sauce?

Valete optime

Crispus

This former citizen has requested not to ask the reason for her resignation of citizenship, so I won't.

I will, however, ask a question of the Censor candidates. I understand that citizens have a right to resign their citizenships. But it seems to me that over the past couple of years there has been an unusually high number of citizenship resignations. Do either of you have a plan to address this issue? After all, whichever one is elected will hold office for more than a year.

Lucius Quintius Constantius

--- On Thu, 5/28/09, lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@...> wrote:

> From: lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] resignation of citizenship
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 1:02 PM
> salvete,
> i announce my resignation of citizenship of Nova Roma and
> what ever post I hold, I have no reason please do not ask.
>
> Vale,
> Lucia Herennia Mento
>
> Luz Morales
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Quintio Constantio salutem dicit

I've been around awhile and I have seen a lot of people come and go -- today doesn't seem any different than years past, attrition is attrition.  I've seen friends resign, and people I don't care for fade away.  People stay in Nova Roma for various, and often different, reasons.  No single magistrate can force anyone to stay when they feel it best to leave.  Over the years I have tried to initiate projects to help make the main list more amicable to new comers (ie., I created the NRMagistrates list for magistrates to discuss magisterial business, the NRPeace list to take fights off the main list but this list didn't work, etc...), but ultimately people have to create their own sense of belonging and those who develop ties with others are more likely to stay.

I had a very close gens-mate leave because her boyfriend was trying to get a job with the US government with a high security clearance and she was afraid that being in Nova Roma could jeopardize his clearance.  So she left.  I've known people who have left because there is too much fighting.  I've known people who left because they thought "the Gods have abandoned" Nova Roma, or who left because their political views were in the minority.  People leave for all sorts of reasons and it is impossible to make Nova Roma the sort of environment were everyone will want to stay.

The task of censor is to focus on citizenship approvals/issues and new senate appointments.  Not a whole lot a censor can do to stop resignations other than inquire as to the nature of the resignation and compile data -- this has been done during census taking but often people want to be "off the record." 

My philosophy when I was censor, regarding applications and naming conventions, is that we (ie., the censores) should be here to MAKE things easier for people and to create an environment that is less restrictive and more expressive.  As such I considered myself somewhat liberal in naming conventions while always being mindful of the advice of the Latin naming experts, but erroring on the side of understanding/compassion vs. rigid standards.  There were times when I had to say no to a citizen, but I believe I said yes far more than no.  So to answer your questions the censores can make the application process smooth and professional, and strive for quality administration.

Vale:

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus 

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 1:31 PM, politicog <politicog@...> wrote:

This former citizen has requested not to ask the reason for her resignation of citizenship, so I won't.

I will, however, ask a question of the Censor candidates. I understand that citizens have a right to resign their citizenships. But it seems to me that over the past couple of years there has been an unusually high number of citizenship resignations. Do either of you have a plan to address this issue? After all, whichever one is elected will hold office for more than a year.

Lucius Quintius Constantius

.

>> The following ballots were cast too early, when only cives in Century
>> 14 could vote.

Oh crap. I just voted and I think that I am in century 17. Sorry....

:-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Levee" <galerius_of_rome@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Âñïîìèíàþù óïàäåííîå



Ah the joys of ethnocentricity.


--- On Thu, 5/28/09, Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...> wrote:

> From: Diana Octavia Aventina <roman.babe@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Âñïîìèíàþù óïàäåííîå
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 9:34 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <Ñåãîäíÿ â Ñîåäèíåííûå Øòàòû
> ìû óäîñòîèì è âñïîìèíàåì âñå èç
> íàøèõ âîèñê ñòðàí êîòîðûå
> ïîæåðòâîâàëè èõ æèçíè äëÿ èõ
> ñòðàíû. ß æåëàþ <ðàñøèðèòü íàøè
> ìûñëè ê âñåì òåì êîòîðûõ
> ïîòåðÿéòå èõ æèçíè äëÿ è óïàäèòå
> äëÿ Sarmatia òàêæå. Ìàé èõ ïîääà÷è íå
> íàõîäèòüñÿ â òùåòíîì.
>
>
>
> I agree! That's the most sensible idea I've heard
> in a long time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Salve Laeta,
I probably missed the email, but where and when will this take place?
Thanks and vale,
Diana

M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus et Augur: Quiritibus, Civibus Novae Romae omnibus s. p. d.

While focus on the election of a censor suffectus has the attention of most voters, I would like to remind you all to vote in favor of the proposals placed by the Consules on the ballot.

Two of these rogationes directly relate to the religio Romana.

1. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis proposes to simplify the wording of the Constitution, Part VI: Public Religious Institutions. The purpose of this measure is to provide the Collegium Pontificum with greater flexible to reform our religious institutions, the Collegia, so that we may bring them closer to an historical model, one that better reflects the Republican.

The current wording of the Constitution sets an incorrect number of collegia members, based on the imperial model. In doing so, being that it is the Constitution, the Collegium Pontificum is unable to correct past errors on its own. It takes a constitutional amendment. Such a proposal was offered in the past by former Pontifex Astur. It went before the Senate and three times before the Collegium Pontificum. But its length was too long for some to comprehend all of its provisions or to appreciate all of the scholarship that Pontifex Astur had put into his proposal. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia will allow the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum to effect much needed reforms from within their own bodies.


2. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de tributo virginum Vestalium looks ahead towards something we wish to see happen through the reforms proposals. The Vestales Virgines form a vital part of the sacra publica. The Pontifices naturally wish to recruit new Vestales Virgines to Nova Roma. We shall work with them to help them become members and serve Vesta. While the Collegium Pontificum may be able to offer several incentives to women to take on this vital office, only the Comitia Centuriata can offer the exemption now sought for the Vestales.

Roma antiqua paid a stipend to the Vestales Virgines for the valuable service they performed and also granted them certain privileges in compensation for all they gave up in accepting the office. Exempting our Vestal Virgines from paying the annual tax is only a token measure; it will not compensate them for any expenses they incur for the services they perform for everyone. And yet it shall go far in showing that Nova Roma and its Citizens value and appreciate the rites preserved by our Vestales Virgines for Nova Roma.


As Pontifex Maximus I urge all Citizens to vote in favor of these two proposals.


3. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum simplifies voting procedures of the Centuriata so as to eliminate voter error and the confusion it creates. It should eliminate one major problem that has plagued recent elections and thus make the process easier for the Diribitores to deal, make the process less confusing to everyone, and allow results to be announced sooner.

What had been a concern to some is that simplifying the voting process of the Centuriata would violate the religious prescriptions we follow for such elections. We follow augural procedures in different aspects of the voting process, including in the selection of the Centuria Praerogativa. All of those religious prescriptions remain in effect with this proposal. The Centuria Praerogativa will still be selected as before and still retain the same augural significance. The voting process will now allow all Citizens to register their votes at the same time, but announcement of the results would remain sequential so that the Augures will still be able to follow their requirements in observing for any any vitiating signs.

As an Augur and as Magister Collegii Augurum I support this proposal.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gaius Marcius Crispus

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:24 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: private labeled products random thoughts

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete
>
> Yes Yes
>
> honey and, say olives, in amphorae
>
> dates, pine nuts, NR spices, NR Cookbook ,vinegar, mustard, and liquamen
>
> Salvete omnes

Dormouse in anchovy sauce, or perhaps just fish sauce?

Valete optime

Crispus

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.43/2139 - Release Date: 05/28/09 08:10:00

Salve Coruncani,
thanks for the response. Of course mine was an invitation, you are not obliged to travel far. I just think NR could use some more propaganda.
Unfortunately covering up excavated ruins is a widespread practice, when there's not enough money to protect the site. If you go there all you will probably see is earth.

Vale,
Livia

>
> L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd.
>
> Sorry for the delay.
>
> The video was made by students in Lucentum. It's a bit far from where I'm now. BTW, there are some roman settlements nearby. They where discovered during a project to build a 'sprawl', they were documented... and covered again. One of these days I will go investigate that and post the results :)
>
> Di vos incolumem custodiant.
>
> --
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Aedilis Curulis
>
> Scriba Consulis Hispaniae
>
> --- El lun, 25/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> escribió:
>
> De: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Videos about Ancient Rome
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: lunes, 25 mayo, 2009 6:24
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> oohh! Julia Aquila had to post a flood of interesting posts and links just when I was unable to read email because of real-life occupation with Floralia!
>
>
>
> But now I had time to watch these. I have to say the Beatles video was totally incomprehensible, unlike the video on Theseus and Ariadne.
>
> It's worth seeing the last part too of the latter:
>
> http://www.youtube com/watch? v=thya22SNCcg& feature=related
>
> True, it has the credits, but also the end of the story.
>
>
>
> Judging from the credits this is a school project by first-year Catalonian high-school students.
>
> Congratulations to them! They have a beautiful and clear pronunciation and everything is perfectly understandable. They used very basic vocabulary, which is almost totally the same in modern Greek too. The plus is that Spanish and Greek accents are really very similar, so it makes their project more credible. What a little jewel!
>
>
>
> I wish we had done something like that at high school! True, there weren't the technical means to make videos back then, but our Latin and Greek teacher never thought to make us do a play.
>
>
>
> Maybe our new aedilis curulis could go do some recruiting for NR among last year students in that school. Surely we need people like that in NR!
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Livia
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Salvete omnes,
>
> >
>
> > A bit of comedy first:
>
> > Ovid's Pyramus and Thisbe performed by the Beatles
>
> > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=DOpEZM6OEvI
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is the tale of Theseus and Ariadne, and Greek but I thought I would slip it in, I suppose I could say it is Plutarch's version thereby it would be by a Greek who was a Roman citizen... anyway it is very enjoyable despite the language barrier, I was told it was filmed in Greece but it's Spain, and the costumes and scenery are beautiful. Oh and please forgive the occasional use of tennis shoes.:
>
> > Pars 1
>
> > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=B_5DS4bS3ds& eurl=http% 3A%2F%2Feclassic s%2Ening% 2Ecom2Fvideo2Fo2 Dminotayros& feature=player_ embedded
>
> > I did not include Par 2 because most of it is credits.
>
> >
>
> > Valete,
>
> > Julia
>
> >
>

Salvete,
Hey, I would buy canned mouse for my cats! Anything that gets them to eat instead of giving the usual disgusted finicky grimace.
Actually, I might go out and buy live mice tomorrow!

I would also buy jarred dormouse (which has nothing to do with mice). I've been wanting to taste dormouse since a friend of mine wrote in one of his novels that it's illegally hunted and consumed in Italy.

Valete,
Livia

>
> Um, Crispus, can we count on you to produce the advertising material for doormouse in fish sauce? That should be ... an interesting challenge, LOL!
>
> In a totally irrelevant side note, I read somewhere that one of the major cat food companies did a major study on the perfect food for cats. They found, not surprisingly, that it would be ... mouse. However, they determined that getting *humans* to buy prepared mouse might be so much more difficult than getting them to buy prepared chicken or tuna that they decided not to even go there :).
>
> C. Maria Caeca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Marcius Crispus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: private labeled products random thoughts
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> > Yes Yes
> >
> > honey and, say olives, in amphorae
> >
> > dates, pine nuts, NR spices, NR Cookbook ,vinegar, mustard, and liquamen
> >
> > Salvete omnes
>
> Dormouse in anchovy sauce, or perhaps just fish sauce?
>
> Valete optime
>
> Crispus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.43/2139 - Release Date: 05/28/09 08:10:00
>

Salvete omnes,
I was thinking of the necessity for a post like this, because I just talkend to a confused itaian cives, and started suspecting that many people had not understood the sense of these proposed laws.

I confess that I hadn't understood the purpose of the first one myself, so I'm very grateful for the explanation.

I'm very much in favour of a tax exemption for Vestal Virgins. As probably all of you are aware, it's a post of high responsibility and difficulty, and not one many applicants can be found for.
I'm deeply ashamed that Nova Roma cannot pay at least some expense refund to our one Vestal Virgin, on whom the safety of the Res Publica rests, but a tax exemption is really the minimum we can grant.

The confusion in the current election about who can vote when only contributes to making it clear that *any* simplification in the voting procedure for Comitia Centuriata would be highly welcome.

So please, vot "yes" to all three lex proposals.

And REMEMBER: ALL CENTURIES WILL BE ABLE TO CAST THEIR VOTE BETWEEN MAY 30 AND JUNE 3, so if you want to be sure your vote is valid, please vote between this Saturday and next Thursday.

Valete,
Livia

>
> M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus et Augur: Quiritibus, Civibus Novae Romae omnibus s. p. d.
>
> While focus on the election of a censor suffectus has the attention of most voters, I would like to remind you all to vote in favor of the proposals placed by the Consules on the ballot.
>
> Two of these rogationes directly relate to the religio Romana.
>
> 1. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis proposes to simplify the wording of the Constitution, Part VI: Public Religious Institutions. The purpose of this measure is to provide the Collegium Pontificum with greater flexible to reform our religious institutions, the Collegia, so that we may bring them closer to an historical model, one that better reflects the Republican.
>
> The current wording of the Constitution sets an incorrect number of collegia members, based on the imperial model. In doing so, being that it is the Constitution, the Collegium Pontificum is unable to correct past errors on its own. It takes a constitutional amendment. Such a proposal was offered in the past by former Pontifex Astur. It went before the Senate and three times before the Collegium Pontificum. But its length was too long for some to comprehend all of its provisions or to appreciate all of the scholarship that Pontifex Astur had put into his proposal. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia will allow the Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum to effect much needed reforms from within their own bodies.
>
>
> 2. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de tributo virginum Vestalium looks ahead towards something we wish to see happen through the reforms proposals. The Vestales Virgines form a vital part of the sacra publica. The Pontifices naturally wish to recruit new Vestales Virgines to Nova Roma. We shall work with them to help them become members and serve Vesta. While the Collegium Pontificum may be able to offer several incentives to women to take on this vital office, only the Comitia Centuriata can offer the exemption now sought for the Vestales.
>
> Roma antiqua paid a stipend to the Vestales Virgines for the valuable service they performed and also granted them certain privileges in compensation for all they gave up in accepting the office. Exempting our Vestal Virgines from paying the annual tax is only a token measure; it will not compensate them for any expenses they incur for the services they perform for everyone. And yet it shall go far in showing that Nova Roma and its Citizens value and appreciate the rites preserved by our Vestales Virgines for Nova Roma.
>
>
> As Pontifex Maximus I urge all Citizens to vote in favor of these two proposals.
>
>
> 3. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum simplifies voting procedures of the Centuriata so as to eliminate voter error and the confusion it creates. It should eliminate one major problem that has plagued recent elections and thus make the process easier for the Diribitores to deal, make the process less confusing to everyone, and allow results to be announced sooner.
>
> What had been a concern to some is that simplifying the voting process of the Centuriata would violate the religious prescriptions we follow for such elections. We follow augural procedures in different aspects of the voting process, including in the selection of the Centuria Praerogativa. All of those religious prescriptions remain in effect with this proposal. The Centuria Praerogativa will still be selected as before and still retain the same augural significance. The voting process will now allow all Citizens to register their votes at the same time, but announcement of the results would remain sequential so that the Augures will still be able to follow their requirements in observing for any any vitiating signs.
>
> As an Augur and as Magister Collegii Augurum I support this proposal.
>

Salvete Omnes,

I truly detest it when I exhibit my ignorance publicly! Having done so, I
will now seek to address the problem. If doormouse isn't ... mouse ... what
is it? I'm very much afraid this is one of those things about which I just
made an assumption, and gave it no more thought.

Valete,

C. Maria Caeca, mortified and blushing, yet again.

Salve Caeca

Though we have lost our taste for dormice, they are again apparently a popular menu item in some areas, as indicated by this item in the London Times:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article2617435.ece

Perhaps it would be safer to stick to honeyed wine.

Dubonnet with honey used to be popular with the French Foreign Legion, but Dubonnet seems to be declining in popularity in France nowadays. I found none in Lille recently - perhaps I was looking in the wrong bars.

I shall have to do more research next time I am in France. Perhaps our French citizens have suggestions.

Vale optime

Crisus

---Salve Caeca

Its just a metter of spelling. Drop one "o" and all will be well.
Dormice are mice. Doormice might be some weird variety of mice that live
in doorways.

Valete optime

Crispus

>

Salve Laeta;
ugh I have no desire to pass out in 100 degree heat, please tell the cohors to move the date to something cooler or the place to the mountains! *hint: Asheville;-)*
bene vale
Maior

> Salve Laeta,
> I probably missed the email, but where and when will this take place?
> Thanks and vale,
> Diana
>

Salve Crispe,
dormice are not mice. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormouse and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_dormouse

Vale,
Livia

>
>
> ---Salve Caeca
>
> Its just a metter of spelling. Drop one "o" and all will be well.
> Dormice are mice. Doormice might be some weird variety of mice that live
> in doorways.
>
> Valete optime
>
> Crispus
> >
>

> >
> > M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus et Augur:
> Quiritibus, Civibus Novae Romae omnibus s. p. d.
> >
> > While focus on the election of a censor suffectus has
> the attention of most voters, I would like to remind you all
> to vote in favor of the proposals placed by the Consules on
> the ballot.
> >
> > Two of these rogationes directly relate to the religio
> Romana. 
> >
> > 1. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de institutis publicis
> religiosis proposes to simplify the wording of the
> Constitution, Part VI: Public Religious Institutions. 
> The purpose of this measure is to provide the Collegium
> Pontificum with greater flexible to reform our religious
> institutions, the Collegia, so that we may bring them closer
> to an historical model, one that better reflects the
> Republican.
> >
> > The current wording of the Constitution sets an
> incorrect number of collegia members, based on the imperial
> model.  In doing so, being that it is the Constitution,
> the Collegium Pontificum is unable to correct past errors on
> its own.  It takes a constitutional amendment. Such a
> proposal was offered in the past by former Pontifex Astur.
> It went before the Senate and three times before the
> Collegium Pontificum.  But its length was too long for
> some to comprehend all of its provisions or to appreciate
> all of the scholarship that Pontifex Astur had put into his
> proposal.  The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia will allow the
> Collegium Pontificum and the Collegium Augurum to effect
> much needed reforms from within their own bodies.
> >
> >

The other two rogationes I do not have any objection. On this one, however, I object to on two different grounds, and must therefore urge a "no" vote on the Lex Curiata Iulia de institutis publicis religiosis.

The first reason is that although our current Constitution may use an imperial model for the number of the Pontifices, it does at least set an upper number on how many Pontifices there are to be. This proposal would remove those references to the numbers, and we are instead left with a rather nebulous situation. The Collegium Pontificum, if this proposal is adopted, could consist of any number from 1 to 500. If we want to change the number in the current Constitution, fine, but let's at least have a number.

The second reason on which I object to this proposed Constitutional amendment is even more compelling. If this proposal is adopted, we will be removing from the Constitution the language that "Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the the Religio Romana..." and that "Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic outlook..." These provisions have served as protection for magistrates and Senators who wish to serve the Republic, but are not practitioners of the Religio. Since these phrase are to be deleted by this proposal, I find this to be a fatal law, and must therefore vote "no" on the proposal.

Language that will be deleted from current Constitution under this proposal:

From VI.A. All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners.

From VI.B. Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic outlook, offering friendship to all paths which acknowledge the right of those who practice and honor the Religio Romana to do so and respect the beliefs thereof.


Lucius Quintius Constantius

Salve, et salvete,

We have been getting quite a few of these lately;) Yahoo is doing some sort of messeage search migration so some us have also been experiencing problems reading messages and posting. If this happens onsite, refreshing helps.

Vale, et valete,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Blank message...
>
> Di vos incolumem custodiant.
>
>
>
> --
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Aedilis Curulis
>
> Scriba Consulis Hispaniae
>
> --- El jue, 28/5/09, Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...> escribió:
>
> De: Robert Levee <galerius_of_rome@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Conversation!
> Para: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: jueves, 28 mayo, 2009 4:09
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Crispe,
> dormice are not mice.

Salve Livia

OK, but they are definitely mouse-like. Hence the origin of the word.  I can't tell the difference on quick inspection.

Nor have I tasted either, so I don't know how they might compare.

Anyway, the sauce would be all-important!

Vale optime

Crispus

Salvete,

I will not eat doormice anyway, they are still of the order Rodentia. I will not eat possum either even though they are marsupials. I have had enough encounters with possums to equate them with the hairy swamp and water rats found at the piers on Long Island and NYC. Here in the south they are termed a delicacy but are not my idea of southern barbecue. I am referring to the ratty shrew looking Didelphimorphia, not the cute Australian possum although I do not know if they are eaten.
Some things, in my mind, should never have a lip laid to...*laughs* Now I will eat snake and alligator - now that's good eating!

Valete,
Julia

Salve Julia,
I will eat any vegetarian mammal, as long as it's big enough to have some meat on it. On the other hand, I never tried eating reptiles. I've got no idea what they taste like.
I tried frog legs, but they are vastly overrated.

Vale,
Livia

>
> Salvete,
>
> I will not eat doormice anyway, they are still of the order Rodentia. I will not eat possum either even though they are marsupials. I have had enough encounters with possums to equate them with the hairy swamp and water rats found at the piers on Long Island and NYC. Here in the south they are termed a delicacy but are not my idea of southern barbecue. I am referring to the ratty shrew looking Didelphimorphia, not the cute Australian possum although I do not know if they are eaten.
> Some things, in my mind, should never have a lip laid to...*laughs* Now I will eat snake and alligator - now that's good eating!
>
> Valete,
> Julia
>

Salve Maior, et salvete omnes,


I neglected to mention the humid steam-bath that embraces the fair City of Nashville in August, and the perfume du jour is lots of bug repellent lest one become intimately versed on the displeasure of chiggers and our native mosquitoes.
Early October is absolutely gorgeous in Nashville, the weather is warm enough to go without a jacket or sweater most days and evenings may be cool enough for a sweater or light jacket. Besides the color change of the leaves we do not get much rainfall normally at that time. Also lots of things are happening then, lots of cultural events, arts, music (besides country). Also take into consideration we might actually be able to book some space in the Parthenon... or even in Belmont Mansion which has a definite Greco-Roman flavor.
But Ashville is good, too;)

Vale, et valete,
Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Laeta;
> ugh I have no desire to pass out in 100 degree heat, please tell the cohors to move the date to something cooler or the place to the mountains! *hint: Asheville;-)*
> bene vale
> Maior
>
>
> > Salve Laeta,
> > I probably missed the email, but where and when will this take place?
> > Thanks and vale,
> > Diana
> >
>

M. Hortensia Quiritibus spd;
well just ask the PM or any member of the CP, none of us want to create 500 pontifices, just the opposite.

At the same time, I think the new re-writing with 'syncretic' is an excellent change. Frankly we've had cultural problems and resignations due to magistrates who don't have the syncretic outlook. We're a polytheistic org, it says so on our main page and having a broad tolerant inclusive polytheistic outlook is what we stand for.
feel free to speak and ask questions about this
Marca Hortensia Maior
Flaminica Carmentalis


if this proposal is adopted, could consist of any number from 1 to 500. If we want to change the number in the current Constitution, fine, but let's at least have a number.

>
> The second reason on which I object to this proposed Constitutional amendment is even more compelling. If this proposal is adopted, we will be removing from the Constitution the language that "Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the the Religio Romana..." and that "Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic outlook..." These provisions have served as protection for magistrates and Senators who wish to serve the Republic, but are not practitioners of the Religio. Since these phrase are to be deleted by this proposal, I find this to be a fatal law, and must therefore vote "no" on the proposal.
>
> Language that will be deleted from current Constitution under this proposal:
>
> From VI.A. All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners.
>
> From VI.B. Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic outlook, offering friendship to all paths which acknowledge the right of those who practice and honor the Religio Romana to do so and respect the beliefs thereof.
>
>
> Lucius Quintius Constantius
>

Salve Julia;
I'm surprised as Poplicola heads the cohors and he lives in Memphis so to choose such a horrid weather date seems strange.
the Autumn sounds splendid and all the great things to do, or if the date is solid then someplace in the mountains where it is bearable. But August in Nasheville is definitely unappealing.....
bene vale
Maior

>
>
> I neglected to mention the humid steam-bath that embraces the fair City of Nashville in August, and the perfume du jour is lots of bug repellent lest one become intimately versed on the displeasure of chiggers and our native mosquitoes.
> Early October is absolutely gorgeous in Nashville, the weather is warm enough to go without a jacket or sweater most days and evenings may be cool enough for a sweater or light jacket. Besides the color change of the leaves we do not get much rainfall normally at that time. Also lots of things are happening then, lots of cultural events, arts, music (besides country). Also take into consideration we might actually be able to book some space in the Parthenon... or even in Belmont Mansion which has a definite Greco-Roman flavor.
> But Ashville is good, too;)
>
> Vale, et valete,
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Laeta;
> > ugh I have no desire to pass out in 100 degree heat, please tell the cohors to move the date to something cooler or the place to the mountains! *hint: Asheville;-)*
> > bene vale
> > Maior
> >
> >
> > > Salve Laeta,
> > > I probably missed the email, but where and when will this take place?
> > > Thanks and vale,
> > > Diana
> > >
> >
>

Salve Livia,

The American Possum will eat anything, I have seen it do so.
I tried frog legs when I was a child and did not like them, then as an adult and still did not like them. I like live frogs fine but not as a meal;)
If you are ever in New Orleans, order fried alligator tail with a side of horseradish sauce and that, amica, is a good meal. We used to have a restaurant here that served alligator tail but I am not sure if they still do. I rarely eat fried foods and if I do it is usually this dish.
I wonder if Ancient Romans used Alligator in their dishes, they did have them. Now this may be a loose connection but in Lousiana there were (and still are) large populations Italian and French heritage and they seemed to almost naturally incorporated alligator into their fare. Just a thought.

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia,
> I will eat any vegetarian mammal, as long as it's big enough to have some meat on it. On the other hand, I never tried eating reptiles. I've got no idea what they taste like.
> I tried frog legs, but they are vastly overrated.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
>
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > I will not eat doormice anyway, they are still of the order Rodentia. I will not eat possum either even though they are marsupials. I have had enough encounters with possums to equate them with the hairy swamp and water rats found at the piers on Long Island and NYC. Here in the south they are termed a delicacy but are not my idea of southern barbecue. I am referring to the ratty shrew looking Didelphimorphia, not the cute Australian possum although I do not know if they are eaten.
> > Some things, in my mind, should never have a lip laid to...*laughs* Now I will eat snake and alligator - now that's good eating!
> >
> > Valete,
> > Julia
> >
>

Salve Maior,

We do have the Smokies and I do know a great place where we could rent some well appointed cabins or cottages or chalets just above Gatlinburg on the side of a mountain with streams, lakes... One of my little hideaways, and one of my destinations this August. However not much for Roman culture, the surrounding towns are big tourist sites, even the Native Americans' have "gone tourist." The closest town is Knoxville, a pretty and clean little city but small, it's still growing but truly sophisticated for its size.
Again there may be a problem booking hotels etc.
Charleston and the outer banks sound good to me also;)

I think Nashville may have been chosen because it is fairly centrally located. And the Parthenon? And we have three active citizens?

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia;
> I'm surprised as Poplicola heads the cohors and he lives in Memphis so to choose such a horrid weather date seems strange.
> the Autumn sounds splendid and all the great things to do, or if the date is solid then someplace in the mountains where it is bearable. But August in Nasheville is definitely unappealing.....
> bene vale
> Maior
> >
> >
> > I neglected to mention the humid steam-bath that embraces the fair City of Nashville in August, and the perfume du jour is lots of bug repellent lest one become intimately versed on the displeasure of chiggers and our native mosquitoes.
> > Early October is absolutely gorgeous in Nashville, the weather is warm enough to go without a jacket or sweater most days and evenings may be cool enough for a sweater or light jacket. Besides the color change of the leaves we do not get much rainfall normally at that time. Also lots of things are happening then, lots of cultural events, arts, music (besides country). Also take into consideration we might actually be able to book some space in the Parthenon... or even in Belmont Mansion which has a definite Greco-Roman flavor.
> > But Ashville is good, too;)
> >
> > Vale, et valete,
> > Julia
> >

Salvete Pontifex Maximus Moravius Horatianus
 
Thank you for your earlier explanation of the proposed laws on the ballot.
 
Could you please take a few minutes to explain the reasoning behind the proposed
changes that would remove these sections of the constitution. 
 
 "From VI. A. All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that made Rome great. Magistrates, Senators, and citizens need not be practitioners of the Religio Romana, but may not engage in any activity that intentionally blasphemes or defames the Gods, the Religio Romana, or its practitioners."

" From VI. B. Nova Roma shall approach all other religions with a syncretistic outlook, offering friendship to all paths which acknowledge the right of those who practice and honor the Religio Romana to do so and respect the beliefs thereof."
 
Valete
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Agricola Aventinae Omnibusque S.P.D.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia Aventina" <roman.babe@...> wrote:
>
> >> The following ballots were cast too early, when only cives in Century
> >> 14 could vote.
> Oh crap. I just voted and I think that I am in century 17. Sorry....
>

As I write there remain just under 30 hours to "phase 2" of our voting. During this time, only ballots cast by citizens in "first class" centuries, that is, centuries 1 through 14 inclusive, are valid.

If anyone has voted too early, simply vote again during the proper time. The diribitores will check for duplicate voter codes so each citizen will be counted only once.

Of course, it is better to vote at the correct time, but citizens who make a mistake will not be penalized by being locked out from voting later.

Citizens in centuries 15 through 51 inclusive should vote after 07:00, 30 May CET (Rome time) and before 17:00 (5 PM), 3 June, CET (Rome time).

Check your century here: http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album

Check the time in Rome here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=215


optime vale et valete

Cato Quintio Constantio sal.

Salve!

I could spend a lot of time talking about stuff but the short and accurate answer is that a censor really has nothing to do with the number of resignations that may occur.

However, I would add that I have long advocated with doing away with the jumping-through-hoops type of resignations we seem to have adopted. The ancient Romans would have not understood the concept of walking into the Forum, going up to certain magistrates and saying "I resign my citizenship." That we demand it may be why it seems so dramatic.

Vale!

Cato

----- Original Message -----

From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher

To: Nova-Roma

Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:32 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO

Salve Amice
 
It is not a crime to resign from Nova Roma. 
 
Cato made a mistake and fixed it. A majority of the Senate even voted to wave the 90 day waiting period so he could come back sooner and not later.
 
We have one candidate who can not, by law serve, and another one who can.
 
Please vote for Cato.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

---

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: twboyle@gmail. com
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true

   Salve Sulla,

 

      Well this is a dilemma. So my choices according to you is a deserter or a lawbreaker. Hmmm, In some countries deserters are lawbreakers.

 

    Vale,

 

        QID

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Woolwine

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:20 AM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true

So you have a choice to make - 1 a lawbreaker. 2 someone you think might quite. Interesting choice.

I think its easy - Cato for censor.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Terry Boyle" <twboyle@... > wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> I see two concerns with your response. The first being that we cannot get any level of guarantee that you won't abruptly quit if elected censor when the pressure gets too be to much. The second is, I feel you abused your power as a senator by calling for the removal of the consuls without cause on the ML and bellyaching about laws being broken. The general populace believes a Senator has inside knowledge. This was a blatant abuse of power for political reasons. If it wasn't than you wouldn't have suddenly dropped the charges.
>
> Vale,
>
> QID
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gaius Equitius Cato
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:48 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato QID sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> Of course you've seen candidates endorse themselves! Whenever they declare a candidacy for something they are saying, "I have what it takes to get this job done - and more!"
>
> Perhaps I have more to learn, technical-minded, than the other gentleman.
>
> But there is a huge, vast, yawning chasm of a difference between learning technical stuff and a commitment to doing what is best regardless of who may have (or may not have) a particular interest in the outcome.
>
> As for resigning - yep, I did it! And yep, it was a mistake. How can we guarantee that the other candidate won't abuse his power in office again if he's elected? There are no guarantees in this world - ever - but there you go.
>
> You just don't.
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Terry Boyle" <twboyle@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> >
> > I have to say that you have chutzpah. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone endorse themselves before. Comparing resumes, your candidate is the less qualified one. I also have a problem with your candidate abruptly quitting the Senate. What type of guarantee do we have that your candidate will not jump ship once things get too hot in the kitchen next time?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > QID
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gaius Equitius Cato
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:25 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: A dream come true
> >
>

Cato QID sal.

Salvete!

With all due respect, the fact that Modianus broke the law regarding throwing Sulla off the Senate List is not a question of opinion, it is fact. It is fact, and Modianus knew he was breaking the law (he challenged people to sue him for abuse of power), and the Senate knew it, and Galerius Paulinus restored Sulla with the approval of the Senate.

If you don't consider a magistrate with high office using that office to break the law willingly, openly, and knowingly is not considered "hurt[ing]" the respublica, I can't imagine what you might consider would be.

Elections happen when they happen, for whatever reasons they happen. To put some kind of onus on any candidate at any time for running for a vacant office is ridiculous.

Valete!

Cato

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> With all due respect, the fact that Modianus broke the law

Modianus did not break the law, he is not a censor who stands for a consecutive censorship, as notified by the law, he is a citizen who stand for censorship.

How a candidate, as you, who breaks so easily and without case of conscience the laws of his exclusive god, YHHW, can be beleived as sincere?

Vale
C. Petronius Dexter

C. Petronius M. Moravio Horatiano Pontifici Maximo s.p.d.,

> 2. The Rogatio Curiatia Iulia de tributo virginum Vestalium looks ahead towards something we wish to see happen through the reforms proposals. The Vestales Virgines form a vital part of the sacra publica.

But why the rogatio says :

"Those appointed as Vestal Virgins by the Collegium Pontificum shall be exempt from paying the annual tax and shall retain their status as Assidui so long as they remain Vestal Virgins."

The word "Assidui" is masculine, and "virgin", "those" or "their" have no gender in English.

In my opinion, better would be :
"The she citizens appointed as Vestal Virgins by the Collegium Pontificum shall be exempt from paying the annual tax and shall retain
their status as Assiduae so long as they remain Vestal Virgins."

Unless, of course, if the status or Vestal Virgins in Nova Roma can be given to men too? Because of the parity between males and females such important in Nova Roma. As it prooves the creation of feminine praetor(praetrix), quaestor (quaestrix), diribitor (diribitrix), etc.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

  

  
A. Tullia Scholastica L. Quintio Constantio quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


This former citizen has requested not to ask the reason for her resignation of citizenship, so I won't.

I will, however, ask a question of the Censor candidates.  I understand that citizens have a right to resign their citizenships.  But it seems to me that over the past couple of years there has been an unusually high number of citizenship resignations.

    ATS:  There may have been an unusually high number of citizens who proclaimed their departure, but most go quietly, and many never show up to take the citizenship test.  Mento had been a citizen only about 7 or 8 months, and was moreover a censorial scriba.  Laenas resigned circa 2003/2004, but returned, and Vedius resigned at least twice.  Many citizens have left and returned.


 Do either of you have a plan to address this issue? After all, whichever one is elected will hold office for more than a year.

    ATS:  As Cato noted, the censor is not responsible for citizen resignations.  Citizens resign for illness, lack of net access, changes in job or family status, and a host of other reasons.  No one can prevent this sort of thing.  I don’t think Cato’s devotion to the divine has yet elevated him to the celestial and omnipotent realms, nor has Modianus’ status as pontifex done the same.  Neither is capable of preventing such departures.

Lucius Quintius Constantius

Vale, et valete.  

--- On Thu, 5/28/09, lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@... <mailto:lhlm75%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

> From: lucia_herennia75 <lhlm75@... <mailto:lhlm75%40yahoo.com> >
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] resignation of citizenship
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 1:02 PM
> salvete,
> i announce my resignation of citizenship of Nova Roma and
> what ever post I hold, I have no reason please do not ask.
>
> Vale,
> Lucia Herennia Mento
>
> Luz Morales
>
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Di vos semper servent.

Hodie est ante diem IV Kalendas Iunonias; haec dies comitialis est: Drusus Caesar triumphans in urbem invectus est.


AUC Maius 1131 / May 378 CE: Battle of Argentovaria

Soon after this transaction had been thus terminated, war was declared against the tribes of the Allemanni around Lentia, who had often made extensive incursions into the contiguous Roman territories. The emperor himself set out on the expedition, and went as far as Rhaetia, and the district of the Canini. And there, after long and careful deliberation, it was decided to be both honourable and expedient that Arbetio, the master of the horse, should march with a division of the troops, in fact with the greater part of the army, along the borders of the lake of Brigantia, with the object of coming to an immediate engagement with the barbarians.

Arbetio not choosing to wait till messengers arrived to announce the approach of the barbarians, although he knew the fierce way in which they begin their wars, allowed himself to be betrayed into a hidden ambush, where he stood without the power of moving, being bewildered by the suddenness of his disaster.

In the mean time the enemy, showing themselves, sprang forth from their hiding-places and spared not one who came in their way, but overwhelmed them with every kind of weapon. For none of our men could offer the smallest resistance, nor was there any hope of any of them being able to save their lives except by a speedy flight. Therefore, being intent only on avoiding wounds, our soldiers, losing all order, ran almost at random in every direction, exposing their backs to the blows of the enemy. Nevertheless the greater part of them, scattering themselves among narrow paths, were saved from danger by the protecting darkness of the night, and at the return of day recovered their courage and rejoined their different legions. But still by this sad and unexpected disaster a vast number of common soldiers and ten tribunes were slain.

The Allemanni were greatly elated at this event, and advanced with increased boldness, every day coming up to the fortifications of the Romans while the morning mists obscured the light; and drawing their swords roamed about in every direction, gnashing their teeth, and threatening us with haughty shouts. Then with a sudden sally our Scutarii would rush forth, and after being stopped for a moment by the resistance of the hostile squadrons, would call out all their comrades to join them in the engagement.

But the greater part of our men were alarmed by the recollection of their recent disaster, and Arbetio hesitated, thinking everything pregnant with danger. Upon this three tribunes at once sallied forth, Arintheus who was a lieutenant commander of the heavy troops, Seniauchus who commanded the cavalry of the Comites, and Bappo who had the command of the Promoti and of those troops who had been particularly intrusted to his charge by the emperor.

These men, looking on the common cause as their own, resolved to repel the violence of the enemy according to the example of their ancient comrades. And pouring down upon the foe like a torrent, not in a regular line of battle, but in desultory attacks like those of banditti, they put them all to flight in a disgraceful manner. Since they, being in loose order and straggling, and hampered by their endeavours to escape, exposed their unprotected bodies to our weapons, and were slain by repeated blows of sword and spear.

Many too were slain with their horses, and seemed as they lay on their backs to be so entangled as still to be sitting on them. And when this was seen, all our men who had previously hesitated to engage in battle with their comrades, poured forth out of the camp; and now, forgetful of all precautions, they drove before them the mob of barbarians, except such as flight had saved from destruction, trampling on the heaps of slain, and covered with gore.

When the battle was thus terminated the emperor in triumph and joy returned to Milan to winter quarters. ~ Ammianus Marcellinus, Res gestae a fine Corneli Taciti 14.4.1, 7-13


Conduct in the Forum

A passage from a speech of Quintus Metellus Numidicus, which it was my pleasure to recall, since it draws attention to the obligation of self-respect and dignity in the conduct of life.

One should not vie in abusive language with the basest of men or wrangle with foul words with the shameless and the wicked, since you become like them and their exact mate so long as you say things which match and are exactly like what you hear. This truth may be learned no less from an address of Quintus Metellus Numidicus, a man of wisdom, than from the books and the teachings of the philosophers. These are the words of Metellus from his speech Adversus C. Manlium, Tribunus Plebis, by whom he had been assailed and taunted in spiteful terms in a speech delivered before the people: "Now, fellow citizens, so far as Manlius is concerned, since he thinks that he will appear a greater man, if he keeps calling me his enemy, who neither count him as my friend nor take account of him as an enemy, I do not propose to say another word. For I consider him not only wholly unworthy to be spoken of by good men, but unfit even to be reproached by the upright. For if you name an insignificant fellow of his kind at a time when you cannot punish him, you confer honour upon him rather than ignominy." ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes Aticae 7.11


Our thought for today is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 7.73:

"When thou hast done a good act and another has received it, why dost thou look for a third thing besides these, as fools do, either to have the reputation of having done a good act or to obtain a return?"

Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.


Nova Roma exists and as a worldwide organization thank to the internet and our website. Our most important face is that we present on the internet, it is our website.

As your Wiki Webmaster, I am in a desperate need for having colleagues who help me in programming and making the hight tech job, and I announce that there is a very urgent need for workers in the IT Staff.

I need people who can use the program called SSH (Secure Shell).

I need people who have understanding of how Wikimedia softvers work.

I need people who have Nova Roma in their heart and have the commitment to make the website of Nova Roma the most wonderful site of all Roman oriented websites on the internet.


BUILDERS OF THE WEBSITE WANTED!

Please CONTACT me privately.



Thank you, and valete!


Cn. Lentulus
Magister Aranearius

Agricola Omnibus S.P.D

As I write we are still within the second phase of voting. Only citizens in centuries 1 through 14 inclusive may now vote.

As I write it is roughly 12:30 PM May 29 in Rome. The third phase of voting opens at 7AM, May 30, Rome time.

Diribitors will announce interim results shortly after phase 2 of voting ends.

optime valete

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Sulla was removed from the senate as a senator some years ago, during a period of time when he was bored with Nova Roma.  Likely during the same period of time that you too took an extended break from Nova Roma.  You remember, the periods when you didn't vote in the senate.  Sulla was not a senator and as such had the right to vote, but not participate in discussion.  He was reminded of this, but his ego is too inflated to comprehend such things.  I removed him from the senate list, but I did not remove his right to vote -- as a consular/censorius he enjoys that right.  The convening magistrate could have easily sent him agendas to vote upon.  Likewise, he was added to the senate list by T. Galerius Paulinus without consulting with me, his colleague.

You can paint a picture, as Sulla does, that I am some sort of "lawbreaker," an absurd assertion.  You have become like Sulla; perhaps "Sulla-light," but like him none the less.  This is unfortunate.  At one time you had my respect, and the respect of others, but I fear you have lost it.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato QID sal.

Salvete!

With all due respect, the fact that Modianus broke the law regarding throwing Sulla off the Senate List is not a question of opinion, it is fact. It is fact, and Modianus knew he was breaking the law (he challenged people to sue him for abuse of power), and the Senate knew it, and Galerius Paulinus restored Sulla with the approval of the Senate.

If you don't consider a magistrate with high office using that office to break the law willingly, openly, and knowingly is not considered "hurt[ing]" the respublica, I can't imagine what you might consider would be.

Elections happen when they happen, for whatever reasons they happen. To put some kind of onus on any candidate at any time for running for a vacant office is ridiculous.

Valete!

Cato

M. Hortensia G. Petronio spd;
lol..eruditus arbiter elegantium, you are too witty;-)[ les Gaulois; comme vous me faisez rire..]
call me traditional (it's so Roman) but I definitely don't believe in male vestals!
" all female citizens... assiduae.."
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> "Those appointed as Vestal Virgins by the Collegium Pontificum shall be exempt from paying the annual tax and shall retain their status as Assidui so long as they remain Vestal Virgins."
>
> The word "Assidui" is masculine, and "virgin", "those" or "their" have no gender in English.
>
> In my opinion, better would be :
> "The she citizens appointed as Vestal Virgins by the Collegium Pontificum shall be exempt from paying the annual tax and shall retain
> their status as Assiduae so long as they remain Vestal Virgins."
>
> Unless, of course, if the status or Vestal Virgins in Nova Roma can be given to men too? Because of the parity between males and females such important in Nova Roma. As it prooves the creation of feminine praetor(praetrix), quaestor (quaestrix), diribitor (diribitrix), etc.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

Salve Potiti;
good question, the tribunes of course. Any citizen can protest. But I think our current consuls, Complutensis and Severus who would be naturally running for the next vacant censorate would object;-)

Remember Sabinus, who'd been consul ran against Laenas, who'd already been censor I believe. The norm is for the recent consul to become censor. The people voted for Laenas and that's the result. I voted for Sabinus and we wouldn't be having this issue if he had been elected. But that's the way it is with an independent electorate, we trust them to make their decisions.
optime vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

, what is to prevent him from doing this again at the

> end of this term? While I realize this sounds a bit like fear-mongering or
> like a slippry slope argument, it is an important consideration. Modianus
> could (in theory), become perpetual censor with brief intervals of a month
> or two.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, the best way to protect the interests of NR is to keep to
> strict term limits, namely, a citizen cannot serve two terms in a row.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Potitus
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Terry Boyle
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:54 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve my friend Paulinus,
>
>
>
> To tell you the truth, I have read the law and listened to all the
> arguements and I believe it falls in favor of Modianus. Even Paulladius as
> one of the authors of it has expressed that Modianus's candidacy might not
> be banned by the law after all.
>
>
>
> I'd all like to add that with Sulla and Cato calling Modianus a
> lawbreaker in my eyes is up to interpretation also. I understand that it
> seems as though he had broken the law only because Sulla decided to come
> back. If he didn't come back the way he did it wouldn't have been an issue
> but if someone disappears then returns I can understand why Modianus would
> have done that. I cannotsay that I wouldn't have done the same thing if
> someone left leaving friends to think he was dead only to suddenly reappear
> to use a lawer to rudely force his way back into this gentle organization to
> take it apart piece by piece for his own pleasure. NR is a real group with
> real people, not a video game for peoples amusement. In hindsight maybe it
> could have been handled in other ways but Modianus did not try to hurt NR
> like Sulla is did. So who is really the lawbreaker?
>
>
>
> Political campaigns are messy but it is not really my point that Cato
> committed a crime. People have to take oaths and live up to them. It shows
> character. I have been giving Cato a fair shake and gave him credit for
> realizing the error of his ways and promising not to do it again. But to be
> frank, this election only happened because a censor quit. This is a sticking
> point with me. I don't want to be a party to voting for someone that has
> quit and might do it again then have to go through a whole nother election.
> It is a common response by a typical politicial to say I make a mistake, I'm
> sorry it won't happen again. I am evaluating this statement in conjunction
> with his other qualifications.
>
>
>
> I've weighed both candidates. The scale is heavily tipped toward
> Modianus. His ML posts are measured and seem genuine. The noise around his
> legality is just dirty political tricks that his opposer and friends are
> trying to influence. I have a mind of my own. I won't play into their games.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> QID
>

Salve Maior
 
You were once a Tribune right?  It has already been stated by at least one Tribune
that they missed the boat. That they could have acted without anybody asking them to do so.
 
A police officer who sees a bank being robbed can act just on that alone. He/she does not have to wait until the bank manager asks for help. The Tribunes should have acted and can still veto the election results. Preventing a person from occupying an office
illegally is still within their purview.
 
If a Consul placed a LEX on the ballot to elect me Censor for life it would  be unconstitutional. If the people voted to adopted this LEX it would still be unconstitutional. For me to assume the office of Censor "for life" would be an unconstitutional act.
 
Vale
 
Paulinus

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

You can keep claiming my candidacy is illegal, but that will not make it so.  You and a small minority object to my candidacy.  It is time for you to move on.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

Salve Maior
 
You were once a Tribune right?  It has already been stated by at least one Tribune
that they missed the boat. That they could have acted without anybody asking them to do so.
 
A police officer who sees a bank being robbed can act just on that alone. He/she does not have to wait until the bank manager asks for help. The Tribunes should have acted and can still veto the election results. Preventing a person from occupying an office
illegally is still within their purview.
 
If a Consul placed a LEX on the ballot to elect me Censor for life it would  be unconstitutional. If the people voted to adopted this LEX it would still be unconstitutional. For me to assume the office of Censor "for life" would be an unconstitutional act.
 
Vale
 
Paulinus

Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
 
Your are 100 percent right. My claiming your candidacy is illegal will not make it so.
 
The LAW makes your candidacy illegal, unlawful, prohibited, banned, illegitimate, illicit, dishonest, proscribed, criminal, forbidden and unconstitutional.
 
Sir,  you can not serve so please do the honorable thing and stand down.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
 

 

---

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: tau.athanasios@...
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:05:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: VOTE FOR CATO

Salvete omnes, Well, Lucentum is far from here, but sometimes I go to Valentia. Some more kms does not hurt anybody :P And for the settlements, they are 200m from me right now :) I will go to the city council and ask about them: what exactly was found, from which period (all papers I saw talk about Ist century AD), state of conservation, and so. May be we find something useful to NR :) Di vos incolumem custodiant. -- L. Coruncanius Cato Aedilis Curulis Scriba Consulis Hispaniae --- El jue, 28/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> escribió: De: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Videos about Ancient Rome Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Fecha: jueves, 28 mayo, 2009 10:41 Salve Coruncani, thanks for the response. Of course mine was an invitation, you are not obliged to travel far. I just think NR could use some more propaganda. Unfortunately covering up excavated ruins is a widespread practice, when there's not enough money to protect the site. If you go there all you will probably see is earth. Vale, Livia > > L. Coruncanius Cato omn. spd. > > Sorry for the delay. > > The video was made by students in Lucentum. It's a bit far from where I'm now. BTW, there are some roman settlements nearby. They where discovered during a project to build a 'sprawl', they were documented.. . and covered again. One of these days I will go investigate that and post the results :) > > Di vos incolumem custodiant. > > -- > > L. Coruncanius Cato > > Aedilis Curulis > > Scriba Consulis Hispaniae > > --- El lun, 25/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ ...> escribió: > > De: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ ...> > Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Videos about Ancient Rome > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com > Fecha: lunes, 25 mayo, 2009 6:24 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Salvete, > > oohh! Julia Aquila had to post a flood of interesting posts and links just when I was unable to read email because of real-life occupation with Floralia! > > > > But now I had time to watch these. I have to say the Beatles video was totally incomprehensible, unlike the video on Theseus and Ariadne. > > It's worth seeing the last part too of the latter: > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=thya22SNCcg& feature=related > > True, it has the credits, but also the end of the story. > > > > Judging from the credits this is a school project by first-year Catalonian high-school students. > > Congratulations to them! They have a beautiful and clear pronunciation and everything is perfectly understandable. They used very basic vocabulary, which is almost totally the same in modern Greek too. The plus is that Spanish and Greek accents are really very similar, so it makes their project more credible. What a little jewel! > > > > I wish we had done something like that at high school! True, there weren't the technical means to make videos back then, but our Latin and Greek teacher never thought to make us do a play. > > > > Maybe our new aedilis curulis could go do some recruiting for NR among last year students in that school. Surely we need people like that in NR! > > > > Valete, > > Livia > > > > > > > > Salvete omnes, > > > > > > A bit of comedy first: > > > Ovid's Pyramus and Thisbe performed by the Beatles > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=DOpEZM6OEvI > > > > > > > > > This is the tale of Theseus and Ariadne, and Greek but I thought I would slip it in, I suppose I could say it is Plutarch's version thereby it would be by a Greek who was a Roman citizen... anyway it is very enjoyable despite the language barrier, I was told it was filmed in Greece but it's Spain, and the costumes and scenery are beautiful. Oh and please forgive the occasional use of tennis shoes.: > > > Pars 1 > > > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=B_5DS4bS3ds& eurl=http% 3A%2F%2Feclassic s%2Ening% 2Ecom2Fvideo2Fo2 Dminotayros& feature=player_ embedded > > > I did not include Par 2 because most of it is credits. > > > > > > Valete, > > > Julia > > > >

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

That is your opinion.  The does NOT make my candidacy illegal.  YOUR interpretation of the law, which is not correct, claims that.  You can keep claiming whatever you wish, but it will not change reality.  The honorable thing for you is to let the people vote, and stop spreading lies.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
 
Your are 100 percent right. My claiming your candidacy is illegal will not make it so.
 
The LAW makes your candidacy illegal, unlawful, prohibited, banned, illegitimate, illicit, dishonest, proscribed, criminal, forbidden and unconstitutional.
 
Sir,  you can not serve so please do the honorable thing and stand down.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Cato Petronio Dextero Fabio Modianusque SPD

Salvete.

There is no such thing as a senator who cannot vote AND speak. There are others who may observe, and some are granted the privilege of speaking in the Senate. But to try to create any other kind of senator is a violation of the Constitution and the lex Popillia. To obstruct a senator in the exercize of his or her rightful privileges is breaking the law.

You, Modianus, as censor used the power of your office to break the law. You did so knowingly, willingly, and openly. And you abused your authority as censor - you broke the law - simply to "get back" at someone you dislike. The Senate rightfully condemned your action and Sulla was returned.

Petronius Dexter, this is not conjecture or opinion; this is fact, and is recorded as such in the archives of the Senate.

Valete,

Cato

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

You know full well that as of last December Sulla was NOT a senator.  As such he did not have the rights of a senator.  He had to use extortion to get his senate appointment, and one of those censors who appointed him (ie., Laenas) felt enough guilt over it to leave Nova Roma.  You have allied yourself in deep with Sulla.  So you will keep parading him as the martyr he wants to be.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato Petronio Dextero Fabio Modianusque SPD

Salvete.

There is no such thing as a senator who cannot vote AND speak. There are others who may observe, and some are granted the privilege of speaking in the Senate. But to try to create any other kind of senator is a violation of the Constitution and the lex Popillia. To obstruct a senator in the exercize of his or her rightful privileges is breaking the law.

You, Modianus, as censor used the power of your office to break the law. You did so knowingly, willingly, and openly. And you abused your authority as censor - you broke the law - simply to "get back" at someone you dislike. The Senate rightfully condemned your action and Sulla was returned.

Petronius Dexter, this is not conjecture or opinion; this is fact, and is recorded as such in the archives of the Senate.

Valete,

Cato

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Moore

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:14 AM

Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO

Salve, QID,

Thank you for your post, especially for its measured tone, which is important in the heat of this election.

Full disclosure: I support Cato. That being said, let me tell you some of my thought process, as I (an ordinary citizen) interpret this law. HereÂ’s how I approach it:

1. The office of censor is one of the most powerful offices in our organization. (Always keep in mind that we are a very small organization, so “powerful” is relative to the size of the organization. ) This is primarily because the censors have control of the list of Senators, but also because of the power of the nota.
2. It is in the best interest of the organization that this power be limited, so that no one person gathers too much power, with the possibility of abusing that power.
3. To curb the power of any individual in the office of censor, we have two main “checks”: a colleague with the pwer of veto and strict term limits.

Interestingly, number 3 is one of the main features of the Roman Republic .

As an ordinary citizen, I believe the intent of the law is to prevent one citizen from gaining too much power. It doesn’t matter if Citizen A was a wonderful censor or a corrupt one—neither of them can serve two terms in a row.

So, now we come to the specific case of Modianus. No matter what I may think of him, and no matter what you may think of him, it is in the best interest of NR that he not serve two terms in a row, because of the potential for abuse of power.

With this in mind, it becomes “nit-picking” to claim that Laenas’ 4 months in office allows Modianus to come back into the office. If he is elected, he will serve as Censor of abut 43 months out of 48—which is clearly not the intent of the law. If we allow that Modianus can come back into office after a hiatus of 4 months, what is to prevent him from doing this again at the end of this term? While I realize this sounds a bit like fear-mongering or like a slippry slope argument, it is an important consideration. Modianus could (in theory), become perpetual censor with brief intervals of a month or two.

In my opinion, the best way to protect the interests of NR is to keep to strict term limits, namely, a citizen cannot serve two terms in a row.

Vale,

Potitus

---

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of Terry Boyle
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO

     Salve my friend Paulinus,

         To tell you the truth, I have read the law and listened to all the arguements and I believe it falls in favor of Modianus. Even Paulladius as one of the authors of it has expressed that Modianus's candidacy might not be banned by the law after all.

        I'd all like to add that with Sulla and Cato calling Modianus a lawbreaker in my eyes is up to interpretation also. I understand that it seems as though he had broken the law only because Sulla decided to come back. If he didn't come back the way he did it wouldn't have been an issue but if someone disappears then returns I can understand why Modianus would have done that. I cannotsay that I wouldn't have done the same thing if someone left leaving friends to think he was dead only to suddenly reappear to use a lawer to rudely force his way back into this gentle organization to take it apart piece by piece for his own pleasure.  NR is a real group with real people, not a video game for peoples amusement. In hindsight maybe it could have been handled in other ways but Modianus did not try to hurt NR like Sulla is did.  So who is really the lawbreaker?

     Political campaigns are messy but it is not really my point that Cato committed a crime.  People have to take oaths and live up to them. It shows character. I have been giving Cato a fair shake and gave him credit for realizing the error of his ways and promising not to do it again. But to be frank, this election only happened because a censor quit. This is a sticking point with me.  I don't want to be a party to voting for someone that has quit and might do it again then have to go through a whole nother election. It is a common response by a typical politicial to say I make a mistake, I'm sorry it won't happen again. I am evaluating this statement in conjunction with his other qualifications.

    I've weighed both candidates. The scale is heavily tipped toward Modianus. His ML posts are measured and seem genuine. The noise around his legality is just dirty political tricks that his opposer and friends are trying to influence. I have a mind of my own. I won't play into their games.

       Vale,

          QID

Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve.

Did Sulla have the right to be in the Senate House? Yes.

Did he have the right to speak? Yes.

Did you unilaterally take that right away from him? Yes.

Did you acknowlege that what you were doing was against the law? Yes.

Did you even go so far as to dare anyone to bring you up on charges of magisterial abuse once you left office? Yes.

Did you threaten to leave Nova Roma if they did? Yes.

Did the Senate condemn your action? Yes.

Was Sulla restored in accordance with the law? Yes.

Once again, you feel the need to equate emotional/personal opinion as a justification for breaking the law. Galerius Paulinus may not particularly *like* Sulla, but he knew - with the Senate - that what you did was a violation of the law that he was bound to uphold. Laenas' leaving is a shame, but whether or not he felt he *liked* restoring Sulla, he knew that he *had* to, according to the law that he was bound to uphold.

You do not seem to have that same respect for the law, as you have shown repeatedly. Obedience to the law is not a matter of deciding if you like the law or not, of how you "feel" about it, it is the foundation of a rational society... one of the hallmarks, as Cicero said, of a respublica.

If you don't like the law, change it. But you do not have the option of ignoring it or breaking it because it makes you "feel" bad.

Vale.

Cato

C. Petronius Valeriae Messallinae Maximae Vestali s.p.d.,

>>> If you say the word Assidui needs to be changed, I believe you (I am no expert in Latin to be sure), and English, for the most part, is gender neutral.

Yes, the word Assidui must be changed. Assiduus/Assidui is for male(s); Assidua/Assiduae is for female(s).

Of course, I did not want to offend the Vestal Virgins, it was wit. But in a rogatio if we use Latin words we must use them without mistake.

Because the rogatio is about the Vestal Virgins, the correct form of the word is Assiduae.

Prospere vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Section IV. A of the Lex Popillia senatoria states:  "Any flamen Dialis, dictator, censor, consul, or praetor shall be entitled to attend meetings of the senate and to vote therein; any tribunus plebis shall be entitled to attend meetings of the senate but not to vote therein."

Sulla was NOT a senator, but a former consor and consul, and as such he had the right to "attend meetings" and "vote" but not to engage in debate.  I advised him to be mindful of this, and he ignored it.  He kept up his sophmorish attitide and was therefore removed from the senate.  I knew my colleague wouldn't be displeased, since he had been paying Sulla's taxes for years and praying that he would return, and I suspected attempts to prosecute me via Lex Salicia -- I didn't feel they had a case, but was ready for it.

Knowing the sort of person that Sulla is, and seeing how you two are in agreement on everything shows your moral character.  Nice try in trying to show the moral character of Paulinus -- his attempt to appoint five senatores is really telling of his motivations -- as his payment of Sulla's taxes over the years.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus 

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve.

Did Sulla have the right to be in the Senate House? Yes.

Did he have the right to speak? Yes.

Did you unilaterally take that right away from him? Yes.

Did you acknowlege that what you were doing was against the law? Yes.

Did you even go so far as to dare anyone to bring you up on charges of magisterial abuse once you left office? Yes.

Did you threaten to leave Nova Roma if they did? Yes.

Did the Senate condemn your action? Yes.

Was Sulla restored in accordance with the law? Yes.

Once again, you feel the need to equate emotional/personal opinion as a justification for breaking the law. Galerius Paulinus may not particularly *like* Sulla, but he knew - with the Senate - that what you did was a violation of the law that he was bound to uphold. Laenas' leaving is a shame, but whether or not he felt he *liked* restoring Sulla, he knew that he *had* to, according to the law that he was bound to uphold.

You do not seem to have that same respect for the law, as you have shown repeatedly. Obedience to the law is not a matter of deciding if you like the law or not, of how you "feel" about it, it is the foundation of a rational society... one of the hallmarks, as Cicero said, of a respublica.

If you don't like the law, change it. But you do not have the option of ignoring it or breaking it because it makes you "feel" bad.

Vale.

Cato

----- Original Message -----

From: Gaius Equitius Cato

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 12:55 PM

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Around and around we go...

Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Salve.

Did Sulla have the right to be in the Senate House? Yes.

Did he have the right to speak? Yes.

Did you unilaterally take that right away from him? Yes.

Did you acknowlege that what you were doing was against the law? Yes.

Did you even go so far as to dare anyone to bring you up on charges of magisterial abuse once you left office? Yes.

Did you threaten to leave Nova Roma if they did? Yes.

Did the Senate condemn your action? Yes.

Was Sulla restored in accordance with the law? Yes.

Once again, you feel the need to equate emotional/personal opinion as a justification for breaking the law. Galerius Paulinus may not particularly *like* Sulla, but he knew - with the Senate - that what you did was a violation of the law that he was bound to uphold. Laenas' leaving is a shame, but whether or not he felt he *liked* restoring Sulla, he knew that he *had* to, according to the law that he was bound to uphold.

You do not seem to have that same respect for the law, as you have shown repeatedly. Obedience to the law is not a matter of deciding if you like the law or not, of how you "feel" about it, it is the foundation of a rational society... one of the hallmarks, as Cicero said, of a respublica.

If you don't like the law, change it. But you do not have the option of ignoring it or breaking it because it makes you "feel" bad.

Vale.

Cato

Thank you kindly.   MVM --- On Fri, 5/29/09, Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote: From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pro Rogationes Curiatiae Iuliae To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 10:17 AM C. Petronius Valeriae Messallinae Maximae Vestali s.p.d., >>> If you say the word Assidui needs to be changed, I believe you (I am no expert in Latin to be sure), and English, for the most part, is gender neutral. Yes, the word Assidui must be changed. Assiduus/Assidui is for male(s); Assidua/Assiduae is for female(s). Of course, I did not want to offend the Vestal Virgins, it was wit. But in a rogatio if we use Latin words we must use them without mistake. Because the rogatio is about the Vestal Virgins, the correct form of the word is Assiduae. Prospere vale. C. Petronius Dexter

Salvete;
Yes, the election is proceding, an important aspect of Nova Roma is to respect the process.

Pauline, as censor you are in charge of morals; you need to be an example, not the cause of future flurry of vetoing candidates: as you know that will happen if such a partisan measure occurs now.

Have some faith in the candidate of your choice Cato and say positive things about why the Quirites should vote for him.

I have voted for Modianus, a steadfast magistrate, who is a peacemaker and I recomend him.
and let the Quirites decide for themselves
vale
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit
>
> That is your opinion. The does NOT make my candidacy illegal. YOUR
> interpretation of the law, which is not correct, claims that. You can keep
> claiming whatever you wish, but it will not change reality. The honorable
> thing for you is to let the people vote, and stop spreading lies.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
> spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> > Your are 100 percent right. My claiming your candidacy is illegal will not
> > make it so.
> >
> > The LAW makes your candidacy illegal, unlawful, prohibited, banned,
> > illegitimate, illicit, dishonest, proscribed, criminal, forbidden and
> > unconstitutional.
> >
> > Sir, you can not serve so please do the honorable thing and stand down.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Cato QID sal.

Salve.

I have the feeling that a few heads would roll if the Senate archives were released :)

To use that phrase, I have no dog in the fight between Sulla and Modianus - I have no personal interest in the pursuit of any vendetta on either the part of Modianus or Sulla. I am interested in seeing that the law - not "feelings" or action based on personality - is obeyed. Our magistrates have done a spectacularly poor job of it, and Modianus let his anger get the better of him for it during his term last year as censor.

Now if, as you say, two people who agree on pretty much everything should not be trusted with a collegial magistracy, both our praetors'and our consuls' offices fail your test.

Vale,

Cato

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equito Catoni salutem dicit

So was it your interest in the law that compelled you to resign your citizenship and senate seat?  Was it a logical and reasoned reaction or an emotional reaction?  Because if your resignation was a reasoned and logical decision then allowing you back in the senate without working your way back shows that Paulinus and Laenas made a drastic mistake.  Or was it your anger and frustration that compelled you to resign?

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato QID sal.

Salve.

I have the feeling that a few heads would roll if the Senate archives were released :)

To use that phrase, I have no dog in the fight between Sulla and Modianus - I have no personal interest in the pursuit of any vendetta on either the part of Modianus or Sulla. I am interested in seeing that the law - not "feelings" or action based on personality - is obeyed. Our magistrates have done a spectacularly poor job of it, and Modianus let his anger get the better of him for it during his term last year as censor.

Now if, as you say, two people who agree on pretty much everything should not be trusted with a collegial magistracy, both our praetors'and our consuls' offices fail your test.

Vale,

Cato

Ave,

I think many of the challenges that NR sees on a constant basis are the result of cives rarely, if ever, meeting face to face. It's much easier to relate to someone when you have seen their face and heard their voice for yourself.

In the spirit of Concordia and the greater good of Nova Roma I would like to extend an invitation to Modianus to meet at the conventus and go out for a meal and a conversation. At least this will give us a chance to discuss what we have in common, rather than what divides us.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Boyle" <twboyle@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Potitus,
>
> Finally, intelligent debate! I don't believe I'm going to convince you, and I know your not going to convince me. But let me offer another way to look at this. In the censors office you should be totally non-partisan. Unfortunately that is not the case more often then not. So therein lies the problem, Cato is much more inline with Paulinus and I believe this is not a fair balance of power. If Modianus were censor then I would vote for someone like Cato or Paulinus. For the good of NR these kids have to learn to get along. So you have to be careful how you use the term "power'.
>
> Here again I don't think anything I say is going to change your mind. We can agree to disagree, I guess. In the law "person" can only be interpreted as person. "Two terms in Five years" is clear, you can't take that another way. "Consecutive" means to follow. I'm pretty sure you can not dispute that. Therefore the way the law was written it can only be interpreted one way. One of its authors agrees with me. If the other author would come to terms with himself he would understand you can't try to influence the debate years later. He wrote what he wrote and its clear.
>
> Not to nit-pick but, if Senator Modianus wins it would be over 5 months since he last held office.So when person "A" is elected to his/her term and steps down it is still "A,s" term. Person "B" is elected they would be fulfilling "A's" term. So if you wanted to take this to the next step, and we agree that it is "A,s" term then its logical to think "B" can run for his/her own term. But because the law specifically says "person" and twice in five years that negate "B" from running again.
>
> With all that being said I would like to go back to the most important part of this topic. Paulinus and Cato have proven to me that they are to much alike. This potentially could be catastrophic. As you said this position is very important, we as the people have to make sure the checks and balances are there. If you want to see an abuse of power put two like minded people in office. I believe Censor Paulinus should recuse himself from further commenting on this election. He has shown too much bias. He has to work very close with whom ever wins. If it is Modianus I will insist that they bury the hatchet and work in concert within the office. If it is Cato I will watch carefully for abuse and if I find it I will pursue it to its maximum penalty. We need watch dogs and they need to be as neutral as possible.
>
> Thank you for your time
>
> QID
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Moore
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 8:14 AM
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve, QID,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your post, especially for its measured tone, which is important in the heat of this election.
>
>
>
> Full disclosure: I support Cato. That being said, let me tell you some of my thought process, as I (an ordinary citizen) interpret this law. Here's how I approach it:
>
>
>
> 1.. The office of censor is one of the most powerful offices in our organization. (Always keep in mind that we are a very small organization, so "powerful" is relative to the size of the organization.) This is primarily because the censors have control of the list of Senators, but also because of the power of the nota.
> 2.. It is in the best interest of the organization that this power be limited, so that no one person gathers too much power, with the possibility of abusing that power.
> 3.. To curb the power of any individual in the office of censor, we have two main "checks": a colleague with the pwer of veto and strict term limits.
>
>
> Interestingly, number 3 is one of the main features of the Roman Republic.
>
>
>
> As an ordinary citizen, I believe the intent of the law is to prevent one citizen from gaining too much power. It doesn't matter if Citizen A was a wonderful censor or a corrupt one-neither of them can serve two terms in a row.
>
>
>
> So, now we come to the specific case of Modianus. No matter what I may think of him, and no matter what you may think of him, it is in the best interest of NR that he not serve two terms in a row, because of the potential for abuse of power.
>
>
>
> With this in mind, it becomes "nit-picking" to claim that Laenas' 4 months in office allows Modianus to come back into the office. If he is elected, he will serve as Censor of abut 43 months out of 48-which is clearly not the intent of the law. If we allow that Modianus can come back into office after a hiatus of 4 months, what is to prevent him from doing this again at the end of this term? While I realize this sounds a bit like fear-mongering or like a slippry slope argument, it is an important consideration. Modianus could (in theory), become perpetual censor with brief intervals of a month or two.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, the best way to protect the interests of NR is to keep to strict term limits, namely, a citizen cannot serve two terms in a row.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Potitus
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boyle
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:54 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] VOTE FOR CATO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve my friend Paulinus,
>
>
>
> To tell you the truth, I have read the law and listened to all the arguements and I believe it falls in favor of Modianus. Even Paulladius as one of the authors of it has expressed that Modianus's candidacy might not be banned by the law after all.
>
>
>
> I'd all like to add that with Sulla and Cato calling Modianus a lawbreaker in my eyes is up to interpretation also. I understand that it seems as though he had broken the law only because Sulla decided to come back. If he didn't come back the way he did it wouldn't have been an issue but if someone disappears then returns I can understand why Modianus would have done that. I cannotsay that I wouldn't have done the same thing if someone left leaving friends to think he was dead only to suddenly reappear to use a lawer to rudely force his way back into this gentle organization to take it apart piece by piece for his own pleasure. NR is a real group with real people, not a video game for peoples amusement. In hindsight maybe it could have been handled in other ways but Modianus did not try to hurt NR like Sulla is did. So who is really the lawbreaker?
>
>
>
> Political campaigns are messy but it is not really my point that Cato committed a crime. People have to take oaths and live up to them. It shows character. I have been giving Cato a fair shake and gave him credit for realizing the error of his ways and promising not to do it again. But to be frank, this election only happened because a censor quit. This is a sticking point with me. I don't want to be a party to voting for someone that has quit and might do it again then have to go through a whole nother election. It is a common response by a typical politicial to say I make a mistake, I'm sorry it won't happen again. I am evaluating this statement in conjunction with his other qualifications.
>
>
>
> I've weighed both candidates. The scale is heavily tipped toward Modianus. His ML posts are measured and seem genuine. The noise around his legality is just dirty political tricks that his opposer and friends are trying to influence. I have a mind of my own. I won't play into their games.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> QID
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae salutem dicit

When is this conventus and where is it located?  As a full time graduate student my disposable income is extremely limited; although, I would certainly like to attend a US conventus.  I would gladly accept an opportunity to meet and have a conversation in the attempt to find some common ground.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:

Ave,

I think many of the challenges that NR sees on a constant basis are the result of cives rarely, if ever, meeting face to face. It's much easier to relate to someone when you have seen their face and heard their voice for yourself.

In the spirit of Concordia and the greater good of Nova Roma I would like to extend an invitation to Modianus to meet at the conventus and go out for a meal and a conversation. At least this will give us a chance to discuss what we have in common, rather than what divides us.

Vale,

Sulla

C. Marius Basilius civibus Novæ Romæ optimis suis S.P.D.

In the current election for censor suffectus I fully support K.Fabius Buteo Modianus for his honesty, earnestness and commitment for NR and, last but not least, his experience.

C.Marius Basilius
Collegium sodalitas proDIIS

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus C. Mario Basilio salutem dicit

Thank you for your support and kind words.  They are much appreciated.

Vale;

Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 4:27 PM, C. Marius Lupus <c_marius.basilius@...> wrote:

C. Marius Basilius civibus Novæ Romæ optimis suis S.P.D.

In the current election for censor suffectus I fully support K.Fabius Buteo Modianus for his honesty, earnestness and commitment for NR and, last but not least, his experience.

C.Marius Basilius
Collegium sodalitas proDIIS

Salve:

As long as it doesn't interfere with my school schedule and I can afford it I'll make every effort to attend.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

Caesar Modiano SPD   I will hopefully have full details shortly. A team in the Aedilician Cohors is working on it. The most important thing is to make this happen THIS year, even if it is far from perfect in some people's eyes, or in the wrong place or at the wrong time of year. Speaking for myself and my team the belief is something, anything is better than zero. that said we will do our best to ensure it is as good as it can be with the time and money available.   Optime vale

Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Yep, it was anger and frustration. And I said so clearly at the time. You can point your finger, but I didn't break the law.

No matter how hard you try, Modianus, you cannot get away from the fact that you purposefully abused your authority and broke the law to get a shot in at someone you didn't like.

Vale,

Cato

Maior Caesari spd:
salve Caesar, since Julia Aquila herself a resident of Nashville says it is called 'the armpi't in that week of August and wont even be there, it is so awful.

Please, either move it to September, October in Nashville when the weather is fine (ask Julia Aquila) or please if the date is fixed, move it to the mountains, someplace like (Hot Springs) Asheville thst Fl. Galerius Aurelianus recommended where the high is 82.

I know from the Senate that no money has been requested or spent, and I'd love for you to make this event a great event.
bene vale in pacem deorum
Marca Hortensia Maior

>
> Caesar Modiano SPD
>  
> I will hopefully have full details shortly. A team in the Aedilician Cohors is working on it. The most important thing is to make this happen THIS year, even if it is far from perfect in some people's eyes, or in the wrong place or at the wrong time of year. Speaking for myself and my team the belief is something, anything is better than zero. that said we will do our best to ensure it is as good as it can be with the time and money available.
>  
> Optime vale
>
> --- On Fri, 5/29/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Intelligent debate (was Vote)
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 4:26 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae salutem dicit
>
> When is this conventus and where is it located?  As a full time graduate student my disposable income is extremely limited; although, I would certainly like to attend a US conventus.  I would gladly accept an opportunity to meet and have a conversation in the attempt to find some common ground.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ave,
>
> I think many of the challenges that NR sees on a constant basis are the result of cives rarely, if ever, meeting face to face. It's much easier to relate to someone when you have seen their face and heard their voice for yourself.
>
> In the spirit of Concordia and the greater good of Nova Roma I would like to extend an invitation to Modianus to meet at the conventus and go out for a meal and a conversation. At least this will give us a chance to discuss what we have in common, rather than what divides us.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

> ...you purposefully abused your authority and broke the law to get a shot in at someone you didn't like.
>

Agricola Catoni sal.

That may be your opinion, but that doesn't make it a fact or true. Where I come from we don't call people guilty unless there has been a trial, and there was no trial, there was nobody who thought enough of this to bring a charge. This makes me believe that there is nothing to it.

There is someone here who makes very similar charges against me, publicly, and with some regularity. That doesn't make it true in my case either, and you know this because you spoke in my favor.

Holding a belief strongly does not turn that belief into the truth.



vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

No.  No matter how hard I try I can never change your mind/opinion on anything.  You are always right -- at least in your mind.

Vale;

Modianus

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato Fabio Modiano sal.

Yep, it was anger and frustration. And I said so clearly at the time. You can point your finger, but I didn't break the law.

No matter how hard you try, Modianus, you cannot get away from the fact that you purposefully abused your authority and broke the law to get a shot in at someone you didn't like.

Vale,

Cato

While I have great admiration and respect for the office of our Tribunes, I do not believe that their authority to pronounce intercessio extends to the ability to declare the results of a legally-called election.   Let me explain.   Our Constitution states in IV.A.7.a.3.b: "The issuance and function of intercessio shall be defined according to procedures described by legislation passed by Comitia."   Such legislation has been passed that states that intercessio must be pronounced against the magisterial action or edictum within 72 hours (3 days) of the action or edictum in question.  (see lex Labiena de intercessione -- lex XLVI).   Since the operative legislation for this election is the lex Fabia de ratione comitorum centuriatorum -- lex LXVIII -- which provides in 5.B.5: "All voting shall cease no less than 216 hours after the beginning of the voting period."  In that lex, the diribitores are given up to 48 hours after the close of the voting period to announce the results to the presiding magistrate.  Therefore, a Tribune vetoing the election results would violate the lex Labiena de intercessione by vetoing actions that took place more than 200 hours into the past.   The legislators in crafting the lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum clearly contemplated the possibility of Tribunes imposing intercessio during the Contio period, as 3.B. provides:   "B. During the Contio, the following conditions shall apply:   "1. Those constitutionally empowered to do so may exercise their powers of intercessio or obnuntiatio.   "1. Intercessio may be exercised either against the entire election or vote, or against one or more individual items on the ballot.  If there are any items on the ballot that have not been subjected to intercessio, voting on them shall proceed normally.  The removal of an item from the ballot due to intercessio shall not prevent that item from being placed on the ballot for a vote at a later time."   It is my opinion that since these provisions are applied by the lex exclusively to the Contio period, then they do not apply to the voting results.  This lex could thus be read as a further regulation of the Tribunate's power of intercessio.  Therefore, election results cannot be subject to intercessio, and intercessio against ballot items must be issued no later than the close of the Contio period.   Of course, I am not a Tribune, so this is only my personal opinion.   Lucius Quintius Constantius                  --- On Fri, 5/29/09, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote: From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: VOTE FOR CATO To: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 9:57 AM   A police officer who sees a bank being robbed can act just on that alone. He/she does not have to wait until the bank manager asks for help. The Tribunes should have acted and can still veto the election results. Preventing a person from occupying an office illegally is still within their purview.

Cato Quintio Constantio sal.

Salve.

I agree entirely that election results cannot be vetoed; primarily because they are not the "act" of a magistrate, they simply are a numerical fact.

Likewise, taking the oath of office cannot be vetoed - it is not the act of a magistrate as legally a citizen does not become a magistrate until the oath is taken.

However, the act of announcing them may be vetoed; the action of a lictor of the comitia curiata can be vetoed; basically, we need to imagine a tribune and a magistrate physically standing next to each other and anything that the magistrate does the tribune can stop.

Vale,

Cato

Cato Fabio Modiano Lucretio Agricolae SPD

Salvete.

Modianus, I am not always right, nor have I ever claimed to be.

Modianus, Agricola, it is not a matter of conjecture or opinion that the Senate and the other censor found Modianus' action as censor to be a violation of the law. It is a fact. It cannot be changed by will or wish.

Valete,

Cato

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

I don't remember the senate being called into session to vote on any sort of "violation of the law" that you claim.  I do remember some sharing their opinion, but having an opinion not approved by some senatores does not equal condemnation by the entire senate.  You are insinuating something that did not happen.  And my colleague, I found many of his actions questionable over the years -- that is hardly an argument.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:

Cato Fabio Modiano Lucretio Agricolae SPD

Salvete.

Modianus, I am not always right, nor have I ever claimed to be.

Modianus, Agricola, it is not a matter of conjecture or opinion that the Senate and the other censor found Modianus' action as censor to be a violation of the law. It is a fact. It cannot be changed by will or wish.

Valete,

Cato

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sitis

Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Iunonias; haec dies comitialis est: Ludi Tarentini

The Fratres Arvales held races for Dea Dia at their sacred grove outside Rome on this day in odd-numbered years. In even-numbered years these races were held on 20 May.

Portents of rain

"Sheep, however, afford us a similar prognostic (of pending weather) when they skip and frisk about in their clumsy gambol (indecora lascivia); oxen, when they sniff upwards towards the sky and lick themselves against the hair; when the unclean swine tear to pieces the trusses of hay that are put out for other animals; bees, when contrary to their natural habits of industry, keep close to their hives; ants, when they hurry to and fro or are seen carrying forth their eggs, and earthworms emerging from their holes. All these indicate approaching changes in the weather." ~ Pliny Nat. Hist.18.88


AUC 504 / 249 BCE: Origin of the Ludi Tarentini

"When Rome and its countryside were being devastated by a tremendous pestilence, a rich man called Valesius, rustic in his style of life, had two sons and a daughter sick to the despair of the doctors. As he was getting hot water for them from the hearth, he fell on his knees and prayed to his Lares that they transfer the peril of his children onto his own head. A voice then spoke to him, saying that he would have his children safe if he brought them forthwith down the river Tiber to Tarentum and there refreshed them with water from the altar of Dis Pater and Proserpina. He was much perplexed by this predicition, for the voyage prescribed was long and dangerous. However, dubious hope overcoming present fear, he brought the children straightaway to the banks of the Tiber, he living on a farm near a village in the Sabine district called Eretum, and made for Ostia in a boat. In the dead of night he put in at the Campus Martius. The sick children were thirsty, and wishing to succor them, since there was no fire on board, he learned from the skipper that smoke could be seen not far away. The same told him to get out at Tarentum, so the place was called. Eagerly he snatched up a cup and carried water drawn from the river to the place where the smoke had risen, more cheerful now because he thought he had come upon some traces as it were of a divinely offered remedy close at hand. The ground was smoking rather than bearing any remains of fire, so firmly seizing on the omen, he gathered some light fuel as chance supplied it, and blowing on it persistently, elicited a flame, heated the water, and gave it to the children to drink. After doing so, they fell into a healing sleep and were suddenly free from the long protracted violence of the disease. They told their father that in their sleep they saw their bodies sponged all over by one or other of the Gods and directions given that dusky victims should be sacrificed at the altar of Dis Pater and Proserpina, whence the drink had been brought to them, and that spreading of couches and nocturnal games be held. Valesius had seen no altar in that spot, so, thinking it was desired that he should set up one, he went to Rome to buy an altar, leaving men to dig the earth down to a solid floor in order to lay foundations. Following their master's orders, they dug out the soil and reached a depth of twenty feet when they noticed an altar inscribed to Dis Pater and Proserpina. A slave reported this to Valesius, who at the news gave up his intention to buy an altar and sacrificed black victims, which in antiquity were called dusky, at Tarentum, and held games and spreading of couches for three consecutive nights, because his children were freed from danger in the same number. His example was followed by Valerius Publicola, the first Consul, anxious to come to the aid of his fellow countrymen. At the same altar public vows were taken, black oxen were slaughtered male for Dis Pater and female for Proserpina and a spreading of couches and games were held for three nights. Then he covered the altar with earth as it had been before." ~ Valerius Maximus 2.4.5

Festus and Censorius placed the origin of the Ludi Taurii (Tarentini) in the reign of Tarquinius Superbus. The plague especially struck pregnant women, causing the fetus to die in the womb. The sacrifices offered to the Di inferni were therefore sterile cows called taureae. Thus was the origin of the name. The location, Tarentum, was the former name of the Campus Martius, derived from Tarquinius, as in that earlier time the fields belonged to the kings of Rome and were worked by the citizens as a way of paying taxes before the introduction of coinage. The same sources attributed the first celebration of the games during a plague that occurred in the consulship of Valerius Publicola, 504 BCE. They were celebrated again in 249 BCE when Rome was again struck by a plague during the First Punic War, and another time, during the Third Punic War, in 146 BCE. It was from this last celebration of the Ludi Tarentini that the Ludi Saeculares of 17 BCE.

Although the ancient sources place the origin of the games in 504 BCE with Valerius, or earlier with a Valesius (an earlier spelling of Valerius), a more likely origin is with the first historically recorded occurrence in 249 BCE. The cultus for Dis Pater and Proserpina may indeed have begun with the Valerii. But in this year, following a series of disasters, the Sibylline Oracles were consulted on converting this cultus gentilis to sacra publica. Greek forms of rites, and stage performances, were additions made to the earlier sacrifices. The entire form of the ludi publica, as seen with the Ludi Tarentini, are a third century innovation. Historians of that time and later then projected such institutionalized games back to earlier dates. Beginning in 292 BCE crowns were introduced on a Greek model (Livy 10.47.3). The Ludi Tarentini of 249 BCE introduced Greek rites. Processions, as found in the Hellenistic centers, plays, poetry competitions, and hunting exhibitions, all of which came to be associated with ludi publica came in the third century from Greek examples. Prior to the third century ludi consisted of horse races and two-horse chariot races.

The period between when the Ludi Taurii were first held to the second time as Ludi Tarentini suggested a period of a hundred, or a hundred and ten, years between staging these games. Thus in the reign of Augustus were the Ludi Tarentini to become known as the Ludi Saeculares, and as with many other resurrected rituals of the Augustan Restoration, these ludi would have been greatly altered.


Our thought of the day is from Stobaeus 36:

"Pythagoras said, that it was requisite either to be silent, or to say something better than silence."

Agricola Omnibus SPD

As the cista is now open for ALL citizens, I would remind you that the voter codes were reset recently.

Since the start of this third phase of voting, ballot #7055 was cast with an incorrect voter code and is therefore invalid.

If you use the "vote here" link on you Album Civium page, you are guaranteed to have the correct code, as it is automatic. Citizens who enter their voter code by hand are urged to double check the code.

valete

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:

>

>
> If you believe that Cato and Paulinus are political allies who will defend
> each other rather than stand up for the law, then you clearly should not
> vote for Cato. But, I hasten to add, this does not mean (automatically) that
> you should vote for Modianus-because Modianus and Paulinus are political
> enemies.

When Paulinus and Modianus were censors, was there a stalemate?




The best option for you, in my opinion, is to abstain. Indeed,

> several people on the Main List have expressed that they wished a third
> candidate had presented himself or herself.
>
>

If I were still a citizen I'd be advocation a 3rd candidate as well.


-Anna