On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:06 AM, <QFabiusMaxmi@...> wrote:

 

 

In a message dated 6/18/2009 3:57:51 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kirsteen.falconsfan@... writes:

Salvete omnes,   In its original format, Roman law is a cross between narrative and case law; it is historical in organization. Republican Rome did not have a "constitution" in our sense as a written highest law of the land. As the Republican Romans (and Greeks) used the term, it was customs and laws (written or not) and practices that maintained a healthy "constitution".

 

Em, can i just point out that I didn't write that, I only copied it from the previous author A. Sempronius Regulus. Just to clarify.

Flavia Lucilla Merula

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato omn spd
>
> LIA: October would have given us more time but then... October is the BA
> conventus in Vegas, so we wouldn't want to give that any competition
> would we? Well I suppose Elvis in a Toga is very Roman;) Of course I
> suppose some sort of Roman Ritual could be done in Caesar's Palace if
> you can ignore the sounds of the slots machines and Barry Manilow.
>
> Wait!! Vegas? Elvis in a Toga at Caesar's Palace?!? I would not loose that!!
>
> for I.... can't.... help.... placing a veto..... against.... yooouuuu....
>
> [applause]
>
> Speaker: Ladies and gentelmen, the Tribunelvis left the building!!
>
> PS: How would Elvis plead?
>
> Di vos incolumem custodiant.
>
> --
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Aedilis Curulis
>
> Scriba Consulis Hispaniae
>
> --- El jue, 18/6/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> escribió:
>
> De: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: what's happening with the U.S. Conventus?
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: jueves, 18 junio, 2009 5:58
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Felix,
>
>
>
> MCF:> No the contact I had with the Union Station â€" A Wyndham Historic Hotel said 10% down 45 days out lost if cancel less then 30 days out
>
> > 50% 30 days out This is how they do it in the hotel Biz
>
> LJA: Really? I booked a substantial block of rooms at Union Station this past December and my credit card was good enough for them. This is one of the benefits of being a local who has worked with marketing.
>
> Union Station is overpriced and the rooms are small, some lack privacy of course it is beautiful in what was the old station but that can be enjoyed without staying there. There are other less expensive options that are very nice also. This is not in walking distance to the Parthenon however it is next to the Frist and if one is in shape could possibly hike up to the Capital and the Tn State Museums.
>
> I will offer my assistance to help with a walking tour if needed.
>
>
>
> MCF:> > >they did got a GREAT deal ( $250 for a room for 9 hours )and as that >space did not let you bring in food set up a all day food and coffee >and tea set for only %65 a person
>
> LJA:> > I could have arranged for an entire house in Belle Meade for nothing for the meetings because we are non-profit: several rooms, comfortable seating, a room for a ritual in a lovely setting. A complete kitchen and a caterer for coffee and food well within budget.
>
> > > 10 minutes max from the Parthenon.
>
> >
>
> MCF:> when why did you not do so?
>
>
>
> I offered, in detail, but no one ever contacted me or took me up on that offer. This has been explained on this thread, my offer noted here, on the aedilician cohors list and on the provincia list.
>
>
>
> It may seem to appear that the conventus, so close yet not even announced yet, is being planned to serve a specific body of citizens who are privy to this information. Locals are not being involved. It does not smell right.
>
>
>
> October would have given us more time but then... October is the BA conventus in Vegas, so we wouldn't want to give that any competition would we? Well I suppose Elvis in a Toga is very Roman;) Of course I suppose some sort of Roman Ritual could be done in Caesar's Palace if you can ignore the sounds of the slots machines and Barry Manilow.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Julia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "wuffa2001" <magewuffa@ ..> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@ > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Salve Felix,
>
> > >
>
> > > > #2 you need for like 25 people much less more you need like 3k.
>
> > > A credit card is all you need. This is Nashville, you do not need a deposit, you can have $2 on the cc or debit card, you can cancel or change the number of reservations within 24 -48 hours of the event.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > No the contact I had with the Union Station â€" A Wyndham Historic Hotel said 10% down 45 days out lost if cancel less then 30 days out
>
> > 50% 30 days out This is how they do it in the hotel Biz.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > >they did got a GREAT deal ( $250 for a room for 9 hours )and as that >space did not let you bring in food set up a all day food and coffee >and tea set for only %65 a person
>
> > > I could have arranged for an entire house in Belle Meade for nothing for the meetings because we are non-profit: several rooms, comfortable seating, a room for a ritual in a lovely setting. A complete kitchen and a caterer for coffee and food well within budget.
>
> > > 10 minutes max from the Parthenon.
>
> >
>
> > when why did you not do so?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes, if we had a decent amount of time we could have an event much like Roman Days which would have paid for itself by renting space to various "Roman" vendors and food service on the huge lawn area right next to the Parthenon that we could have gotten a permit for.
>
> > >
>
> > > I understand that we have a strong desire to have a conventus - but done right it would truly be worthwhile and something more people could plan for (as you so astutely outline), save up, get time off and attend.
>
> > >
>
> > > There will be more conventus' to plan for in the future I am sure.
>
> > >
>
> > > Vale,
>
> > > Julia
>
> > >
>
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno Cantermi" <brunocantermi@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> Dear God! How ridiculous you are, Aurelianus! That's the silliest demonstration of tragicomedy I've ever seen!
>
> Valete,
>
> LVSITANVS.SPD.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: fpasquinus@...
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:14 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ELECTIONS FOR CENSOR SUFFECTUS - Complutensis is herebyfined.
>
>
>
>
>
> Tribunus Flavius Galerius Aurelianus in the Rostra crying: BUUA! BUUA!
>
> Consul Complutensis has not obbeyed me.... BUUUA!
> Aquila has not obeyed me.....BUUUA!
> Coruncanius Cato has not obeyed me.....BUUUA!
> Quintilianus has not obeyed me......BUUUA!
> Consul Severus has not obeyed me......
>
> Nobody obeyed this poor tribune........
>
> So now I fine the whole world...
>
> LOL
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick D. Owen" <Patrick.Owen@> wrote:
> >
> > Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Tribunus Plebis s.p.d.
> >
> > Under the lex Didia Gemina, specifically the Summa Coercendi Potestas, the Consul M. Cur. Complutensis is hereby fined thirty U.S. dollars ($30.00) for interfering with the official action of a Tribunus Plebis by refusing to recognize the valid intercessio of Tribunus Agrippa. This money is to be paid into the treasure of Nova Roma and devoted to Ceres.
> >
> > If M. Cur. Complutensis does not immediately retract his announcement of the invalidated election of Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus and begin the process to call a new election, I will invoke the Potestas Sacrosancta upon him for refusing to abide by the legal exercise of an intercessio.
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> >
> > III. TRIBUNICIA POTESTAS (Tribunician Power).
> > The office of Tribunus Plebis is Sacred in the Republic and endowed on this account with the following powers:
> >
> > A. Summa Coercendi Potestas.
> > Any citizen or magistrate who interferes with the official action(s) of a Tribunus Plebis shall be fined by that Tribunus with a multa pecuniaria of no more than thirty U.S. dollars ($30.00), paid to the treasury of Nova Roma and devoted to Ceres. Such a penalty cannot be suspended or revoked except by intercessio of another Tribunus Plebis, or a Praetorian appraisal which should permit the fined citizen further recourse at law under the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria. The right of provocatio will be respected as Article II. B. 5 of the constitution states.
> >
> > B. Potestas Sacrosancta.
> > Any citizen or magistrate who shall do violence to a Tribunus Plebis in the course of his official duties or refuse to abide by a legal exercise of intercessio shall be brought before the Praetores and judged in accordance with the Lex Salicia Iudiciaria. The severity of the poena shall be determined in the Praetor's formula in accordance with the severity of the offence. The trial for this offence should be completed within sixty days of submission of the petitio actionis to the Praetor by the Tribunus Plebis, respecting Praetor's use of his discretion on dates. Completion of the term of office of the actor Tribunus Plebis shall not affect trial for an offence for which a petitio actionis has been filed prior to the completion of that Tribunus Plebis' term.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M.C.C." <complutensis@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete
> > >
> > > after the expiatory ceremony for the vitium and the re-break of the ties
> > > using a Nova Roman Sestertius, the will of the citizens of Nova Roma and
> > > the will of the Gods and Goddesses is that the Censor Suffectus elected
> > > with 28 centuries is K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
> > >
> > > Valete
> > >
> > > M.CVR.COMPLVTENSIS
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Woolwine" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Olive branch? Let's see Modianus extend the olive branch by reinforcing the lawful Tribunican veto. He does that, that will be an olive branch and all sides will be able to work on electing a legal Censor. Instead of having a vacant office still open. If his digntas meant an ounce to him he could bring concordia back to NR. But, we all know he doesn't care about that, don't we?
> >
>
>
> You call that an olive branch? That's like saying "If you let me have my way then I won't argue anymore".
>
> Kind of silly. I should expect as much from suing sulla.
>
> A real olive branch is an gesture of peace and forgiveness, not giving in to the demands of a bully.
>
> -Anna
>

>
> Salve,
>  
> Yes, the British perspective is one of the reasons I appreciated Cordus.
>  
> Thanks for the point.
>  
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Modianus was elected Censor by the people
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:56 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:45 PM, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius. regulus@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>  
> In its original format, Roman law is a cross between narrative and case law; it is historical in organization. Republican Rome did not have a "constitution" in our sense as a written highest law of the land. As the Republican Romans (and Greeks) used the term, it was customs and laws (written or not) and practices that maintained a healthy "constitution".
>
> Sounds very much like the way it is in the UK today
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
>  
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Regule;
> Cordus was in Pannonia at the big NR meeting, he's just taking a break from the ML nonsense. When the election problem first came up I wrote to him about the practice during the republic. He told me a tribunian veto could not be issued once the comitia met.
> It's quite plain and clear. Don't mistake that Sulla, and Cato and Caesar and their cronies care about Roman law and history,They don't. Cato wrote to Cordus, and he got fed up with people wanting to play lawyer and make up law and not respect the practices and mos of the republic.
> But it will blow over:)
> bene vale
> Maior
> >
> > Salve,
> >  
> > Yes, the British perspective is one of the reasons I appreciated Cordus.
> >  
> > Thanks for the point.
> >  
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Modianus was elected Censor by the people
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 10:56 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:45 PM, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius. regulus@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >  
> > In its original format, Roman law is a cross between narrative and case law; it is historical in organization. Republican Rome did not have a "constitution" in our sense as a written highest law of the land. As the Republican Romans (and Greeks) used the term, it was customs and laws (written or not) and practices that maintained a healthy "constitution".
> >
> > Sounds very much like the way it is in the UK today
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> >  
> >
>

>

> C.Marius Basilius Tiberio Galerio Paulino S.P.D.
>
> Dear censor, I see your point. However an election was regularly held in the moment that the people could vote on NR site.
> If you state that NR held an incorrect election, you are delegitimating the voting system and at the end you are weakening the whole political system of NR. In fact, who can give me any warranty that this will not happen again? Why should I trust a political system that can cancel my vote after it has been expressed?
> Please consider this aspect.
>
> Vale bene,
> C.Marius Basilius
> - just one among many NR citizens -
>

>
>
>
> With respect you need to remember that Cato has already stated, on more than one occasion, that he WILL NOT BE A CANDIDATE for Censor when a new election is called.
>
>
>
> To some of us this is about the law and the constitution not candidates.
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
> Censor
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: violetphearsen@...
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:56:03 -0700
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Protecting Our Votes and Future Elections
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma,
>
> All this wrangling about the censor election is but a ploy, because Gn. Equitius Cato did not win the election and Modianus is now Censor. So Sulla and Co. want to find a way to invalidate the election results and get a new election, which if Equitius Cato does not win, will result in another attempt to invalidate that election, and so forth and so on ad nauseum.
> Enough! Time to put an end to these transparent attempts to undermine Nova Roma and our voting system, or no election will ever again count for anything.
> Modianus was duly elected Censor. End of story. Time to move on!
>
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Will of the People
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:36 AM
>
>
>
>
> The will of the people cannot violate the law.
>
> The consuls needs to set up a new election for Censor Suffectus.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfa n@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting really tired of being told that in this election the will of the
> > people prevailed. The will of the people 'might' prevail in a democracy,
> > though looking round the world at the moment, that's debatable.
> >
> > However Rome was not a democracy. In line with that, neither is Nova Roma.
> > Therefore to claim the will of the people prevailed is disingenuous at best.
> > In reality the will of a certain sector of the people prevailed. I am not
> > arguing against this but let's at least be honest about it.
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato omn spd.
>
> As it is stated on the Constitution, the Consules are the only persons able to 'interpret' the law and to "do what they consider to be in the best interests of the state."
>
> Since this issue is a matter of interpretation, the Consules have then the final word. They had it when the candidacies were presented, they had it during the contio, and they have it now.
>
> Di vos incolumem custodiant.
>
> --
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Aedilis Curulis
>
> Scriba Consulis Hispaniae
>
> --- El jue, 18/6/09, QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...> escribió:
>
> De: QFabiusMaxmi@... <QFabiusMaxmi@...>
> Asunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Boy the mess...
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: jueves, 18 junio, 2009 7:59
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/18/2009 10:02:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> n_apollonius_ quadratus@ yahoo.com writes:
> Did
> Modianus take back the office after Laenes left office?
>
>
>  
> Are you paying attention?  Yes he did.  There was no term
> difference.  His term ran from 2008, Laenes 2009-until Kal IAN 2011.
>  
> Constitution says term of office, not person.
>  
> The Constitution is our operating instructions.  The Tribunes make
> sure the operating instructions are followed by the magistrates.
>  
> Censors are enjoined NOT to have consecutive terms.  Because when Nova
> Roma was first starting out, those in government allowed
> several consecutive terms in Magisterial offices such Praetor to
> Consul since Nova Roma lacked manpower, but NR never allowed a Censor
> to stand for Consecutive Terms.  Even  then a founder like Vedius took
> a year off before standing for Censor again.  
>  
> If Modianus had any honor, he'd obey the Tribunes' veto since Equitius
> Cato the threat that the Consuls were trying to avoid is no longer a
> threat.  He has said he will not stand for the next Censor election. 
> And he does not win this one, when Modianus is not certified, new elections must
> be held.
>  
> As for the faction involved, there is no faction.  Just a group of
> Nova Roma citizens tired of a government that does not follow its own rules
> because it is inconvenient or they don't know them.  
> In fact these people are made up of both factions.  They are just
> people tired of  a government that is about them, and not NR.
>  
> Q. Fabius Maximus 
>
> Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday!
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, violetphearsen@... wrote:
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma,
>  
> All this wrangling about the censor election is but a ploy, because Gn. Equitius Cato did not win the election and Modianus is now Censor. So Sulla and Co. want to find a way to invalidate the election results and get a new election, which if Equitius Cato does not win, will result in another attempt to invalidate that election, and so forth and so on ad nauseum.
> Enough! Time to put an end to these transparent attempts to undermine Nova Roma and our voting system, or no election will ever again count for anything.
> Modianus was duly elected Censor. End of story. Time to move on!
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>  
>  
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Will of the People
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:36 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The will of the people cannot violate the law.
>
> The consuls needs to set up a new election for Censor Suffectus.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfa n@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting really tired of being told that in this election the will of the
> > people prevailed. The will of the people 'might' prevail in a democracy,
> > though looking round the world at the moment, that's debatable.
> >
> > However Rome was not a democracy. In line with that, neither is Nova Roma.
> > Therefore to claim the will of the people prevailed is disingenuous at best.
> > In reality the will of a certain sector of the people prevailed. I am not
> > arguing against this but let's at least be honest about it.
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Marius Lupus" <c_marius.basilius@...> wrote:
>
> C.Marius Basilius Tiberio Galerio Paulino S.P.D.
>
> Dear censor, I see your point. However an election was regularly held in the moment that the people could vote on NR site.
> If you state that NR held an incorrect election, you are delegitimating the voting system and at the end you are weakening the whole political system of NR. In fact, who can give me any warranty that this will not happen again? Why should I trust a political system that can cancel my vote after it has been expressed?
> Please consider this aspect.
>
> Vale bene,
> C.Marius Basilius
> - just one among many NR citizens -
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete
>
> The above subject line is as accurate as the mantra "Modianus is elected Censor."
>
> Neither has any basis in the laws of THIS republic. For those who have not noticed we are trying to RECREATE the Roman Republic because it FELL in 31 BC with the battle of Actium.
>
> OUR laws and constitution are what matters.
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Coruncanius Cato <l.coruncanius_cato@...> wrote:
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato N. Apollonio Quadrato SPD
>
> NAQ: Since
> Modianus did indeed step out of office for Laenas, who then stepped out
> for whatever reason, Modianus did have a break in power as a Censor.
>
> LCC: The fact is that, after Laenas paved the return of Senator Sulla to NR, Senator Sulla celebrated his return by starting his empty threats of placing lawsuits against NR with false accusations. Laenas then realized his mistake and resigned his citizenship. And, sadly, so did some of the eldest cives of Nova Roma.
>
> Di vos incolumem custodiant.
>
> --
>
> L. Coruncanius Cato
>
> Aedilis Curulis
>
> Scriba Consulis Hispaniae
>
> --- El vie, 19/6/09, n_apollonius_quadratus <n_apollonius_quadratus@...> escribió:
>
> De: n_apollonius_quadratus <n_apollonius_quadratus@...>
> Asunto: [Nova-Roma] Well my understanding...
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Fecha: viernes, 19 junio, 2009 12:58
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Omnibus Salvete.
>
>
>
> I copied all the laws that were still in effect and the current constitution and printed it out. After 158 pages later, and a rough running of a lawyer's dictionary I think I understand this situation a little better.
>
>
>
> As the current Constitution says, Modianus is the Censor Suffectus. As the Leges decree, Modianus is a legal candidate for Censor Suffectus. There are a few provisions in there that interest me a little. I guess I will start at the beginning with my reasoning.
>
>
>
> It starts with Modianus becoming a candidate for Censor Suffectus. The Lex Cornelia Iunia de Definitione Intervallorum Magistratuum on line 1 states: "No person shall hold the office of censor consecutively or more than twice in a five-year period. This exception to this provision shall be any censor suffectus who has served 6 months or less of his predecessor' s term of office." After talking with a few lawyers online and looking up the TEN different meanings of "or" the inclusion of "or" says that either condition applies and should not interfere with each other. As the Lex says consecutively OR more than two... this implies that if the candidate is serving a consecutive term they are not to be serving more than two terms in a five-year period. From what I saw with Modianus' record on the Album Civium he is fulfilling this obligation of the Lex. Realistically this is a poorly worded Lex and should be placed before the Senate for review. So
> Modianus is a legal candidate for as far as I can see for Censor Suffectus.
>
>
>
> So the votes are cast, of which Modianus and Cato are definite legal candidates, and Modianus is called the winner in the main list by the Consules. By the testimony of Cn. Lentulus the Diribitores gave the Consules the results of the votes, not the Custodes. When this was done an Intercessio was called against the Consules regarding the outcome of the vote. Now while I understand the Tribunus Plebis can call Intercessio on any act any magistrate may pull so long as it violates the letter or spirit of the law or Constitution. Since the act of validating the votes would cause the winner of Modianus to take place, the act is halted via Intercessio. Since a tiebreak was recalled the original Intercessio was completed and no longer stands. The original Intercessio is invalid by it's own operations. Disregarding the time constraint, but there are other issues to be had here.
>
>
>
> The Intercessio must contain the official(s) name of the citizen(s) who has requested the Tribunus Plebis to issue the intercessio, or the official name(s) of the citizen(s) on whose behalf the Tribunus has provided auxilium ex officio. The official name and the office of the magistrate(s) against whose act or acts the intercessio or auxilium has been interposed. And the article(s) of the Constitution or the Leges violated by the magistrate's act(s). Since one of the Consul's name was spelled incorrectly the original Intercessio was invalid and an ammendment would have been required to make it legally binding. The failure to do so invalidated the Intercessio, but let's ignore that fact for a moment. The Intercessio (as far as I can surmise) was targeted against the act of verification of the votes. Since the verification of the votes would have allowed an "illegal" candidate to take office. As Modianus was established to be legal, this part of the
> argument is no longer an issue. A part from that the act of counting votes and verifying the result of those votes neither declares or denies a winner. It is merely an act of counting and affirming the count. Since the count was done, and an Intercessio was placed against the counting being verified then we come to a new problem.
>
>
>
> First I would like to declare the authority of the Constitution of Nova Roma: Constitution I.B. "The Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from the edicts issued by a legally appointed Dictator." That being said I would like to address this issue here: Constitution I.A.3.a. "No one shall suffer a penalty for an action which was not subject to a penalty when the action was performed. If an action was subject to a penalty when the action was performed but is no longer subject to any penalty, no penalty shall be applied for that action." Since the action of verifying votes was not a punishable act, or considered illegal in the past, the Intercessio cannot penalize the Custodes or the Consules for reading those votes and agreeing with them. The act itself is not illegal nor to be penalized as per the Constitution. This is a very murky argument and I do look forward to any corrections and insights to how this may be
> remedied.
>
>
>
> But let us assume that the "or more than two terms in five-year period" is meaning something else. Let us look at consecutive then. The dictionary defines consecutive as back to back without a break. Since Modianus did indeed step out of office for Laenas, who then stepped out for whatever reason, Modianus did have a break in power as a Censor. Thus allowing for his re-election now. Modianus is still a legal candidate. This being the case, the Intercessio is still invalid as far as I can tell.
>
>
>
> Now we move on to the second Intercessio. This is clearly invalid as it draws authority on the assumption that Modianus is not a valid candidate (which he is) and that the Consules are breaking Constitutional law and established Leges (which they are not). Since this second Intercessio is invalid the fines resulting from "interfering" with Tribunus affairs is also invalid. Though I don't think the fines are an abuse of power. If the last two Intercessios were valid then the fines would be clearly enforceable, but since they are not the fines are simply wash and hold no power. I think the Tribunus are operating as they are aware of to operate. What I mean by this is the Tribunus can only operate within the scope we tell them to move in. Since they are not receiving the full of information that is happening, they can only act so far as they are allowed. So I wouldn't blame the Tribunus for these recent Intercessios, they are just misplaced and
> invalid, nothing more.
>
>
>
> Now to Cato, Cato, the runner up, has a lot of legal weight here. He can declare provocatio against the actions of the Consules for misrepresenting the candidates (of which negatively affect him). He can declare provocatio against the Senate, since the Consules are to report to the Senate (or so my research leads me to believe). Cato can do a lot to have a second chance, but not with the Tribunus Plebis since all these actions are lawful. The provocatio I'm thinking of is the negative air that is placed on Cato for defying the acts of Modianus and the Consules. Since the stature of the candidates and the actions of the Consules caused unneeded stress on Cato, he was negatively impacted by the rush of hate he was bombarded with because of his belief that Modianus was an invalid candidate. As such this explicitly impairs Cato's future dealings with Nova Roma Magistrates and the citizens themselves. This causes more stress than necessary and could
> have been avoided if the law was clearly looked at in the very beginning. The negligence at the start of these elections is the source of Cato's frustration and subsequent attacks (attacks towards Cato not from him). Cato has now had to defend his character of which would not have been the case had the law been thoroughly explained and analyzed by the Tribunus Plebis in a timely fashion.
>
>
>
> The Senate has a very strong pull here as well. If the Sentate can get two thirds of its members to declare Senatus Consulta Ultima, then the Consules (to my understanding) must declare an Edicta in favor of what the Senatus Consulta Ultima is. Now the Tribunus Plebis cannot declare Intercessio on this act as it momentarily supersedes the Constitution' s authority. But that leads to the proverbial question, can Iupiter Optimus Maximus make a boulder so heavy even he can't lift it?
>
>
>
> One thing I would like to say is that no, abstaining from agreeing or disagreeing does not nullify a vote. It merely does not exist. So when the other Tribunus members were silent and did not voice their consent or dissent of the Intercessio, then the Intercessio, had it been valid to start, would have passed and become empowered via the authority vested in the Tribunis Plebis via the Constitution.
>
>
>
> Also, since the previous Intercessios are indeed invalid, any fines resultant from the declaration of the Intercessios cannot be enforced. I do not think it would be necessary for the citizens to declare provocatio, but if it comes to it you may have to. I do not think it is necessary. The main legal argument is that you congratulated Modianus as the new Censor as was your understanding from declaration of the Consules. And as I pointed out elsewhere: Constitution I.A.3.a. "No one shall suffer a penalty for an action which was not subject to a penalty when the action was performed." Since it was not punishable before to congratulate someone in the past, it should not be an act of dissent against the invalid Intercessio to congratulate someone on the basis of information supplied. If the Intercessio was valid, the fine should go to the Consules and only the Consules for undermining the authority of the Tribunus Plebis by misinforming the citizens of
> Nova Roma. That's why I say these fines shouldn't be considered abuse of power. The Tribunus are operating as best the see fit. It is all invalid, but not abusive.
>
>
>
> Now to bring this all together, the Intercessio is invalid, the fines are invalid, and Modianus is the new Censor Suffectus by decree of the Constitution I.B. "... Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take precedence." The Senate is the board of Directors of Nova Roma, and if they feel the urge to issue Senatus Consulta Ultima in favor or against Modianus' position as Censor Suffectus then, they being the Higher Authority, must be heard. As the Consules are the Co-Presidents of Nova Roma, they are obligated to abide by the Board of Directors' decree and carry it out.
>
>
>
> That is all I have to say on the affair. Let us move on from this and look forward to the next elections and the glorious future of Nova Roma. I hope the future holds many rewards for our perseverance during these troubled times.
>
>
>
> Valete.
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "n_apollonius_quadratus" <n_apollonius_quadratus@...> wrote:
>
> Omnibus Salvete
>
> I've been trying to get into Nova Roma IRC for sometime now, and I am using Firefox 3, and I am using chatzilla? It's the IRC plug in for Firefox. Every time I try to connect, it says either refused or timed out. Now I changed my name over to N_Apollonius_Quadratus, so that shouldn't be an issue. I turned on and off my fire wall to see if that was an issue, and it wasn't. Is there something I'm missing?
>
> Also, what does it cost the government to print the Nova Roma coins? I like that there is coinage being produced, but they are brass. Nothing wrong with brass, but let's give Nova Roma a little kick in the tail. Now if Nova Roma doesn't have Tax Exempt status it sure needs to get it fast. That way authorized members of Nova Roma can go out and purchase PMC (precious metal clay). This clay is .999 pure silver. Well if you get the silver. The gold is a little hefty and getting copper isn't a bad idea. Since the authorized individual purchased the clay for Nova Roma, then Nova Roma owns that clay. This is a tax write off and will be refunded at the next tax returns. The silver is classified as basic operating expenses as the silver will be minted in Nova Roma fashion. Now Nova Roma has some serious pulling weight. Real silver coins to give buying power to the Ordo Equestor, and the Copper coinage would also bring more buying power. Now instead of blank fiat money polluting Nova Roma, we have actual real wealth on which to pull from. Not only that, but should the silver market rise, so too will Nova Roma's wealth. If every citizen of Nova Roma purchased one box of PMC and donated it to Nova Roma, and Nova Roma purchased some PMC for itself, then Nova Roma will begin to have some serious wealth being developed that will not depreciate. The people who donated the PMC will be able to declare the silver as a donation and be refunded for the cost of the PMC. Realistically the cost of PMC is higher than the cost of silver as it stands, but the cost isn't a factor as the expense is refunded since it was a donation.
>
> What is Nova Roma doing about expansion? If Nova Roma is not a tax exempt organization it needs to be quickly. As such puting down payments on land would place Nova Roma as the sole owner of that land, and there would be no land tax and the cost of purchasing that land would be refunded. On top of that, Nova Roma can take care of other costs by building on the land making it a sort of vacation spot for people to live an "authentic" Roman lifestyle. There are all sorts of quirky places like that riddling the US and other places as well. In Finland there was an Inn for some time that you could live as a Viking. I mean Santa Claus is in Finland for goodness sake. If we used the ram earth technique to build the houses and other such buildings, we can save on costs for construction. We would also be minimally impacting the environment. If a garden for farming was established then the land could become autonomous and eventually turn into a commune where Nova Roman citizens could actually live in the lifestyle they desired. As a Temple to the Roman Gods became established on the land more people would flock to it for it's Pagan connotations. Nova Roma would expand, gaining more wealth for itself, it would spread the word of Nova Roma as people go there to escape mundane life and explore a more "holistic" way of life, in turn this money collected from travelers would go into the Nova Roman pockets where partial investment in precious metals like silver and gold solidify the wealth of Nova Roma. As the construction of the Temple becomes complete the transition from tourist destination begins to change into a commune that is self sufficient and capable of housing Nova Roman citizens. This all while Nova Roma purchases new land to continue the cycle of tourist then commune. Has this ever been considered by Nova Roman officials? What steps are there to further the goal of physical manifestation of our place in this world? Meetings are fine and all, but a central hub where Nova Romans can gather and LIVE in the lifestyle we choose, what is being to done to carry this out?
>
> Also, is there going to be a meet up in the US or isn't there? I've been trying to pay attention.
>
> And is it okay to have a tunic but not a toga?
>
> What is the proper way to address members of the Senate and other such Magistrates?
>
> And how come I haven't been assigned to my tribe yet?
>
> These and other questions should probably stay in my head. Until next time...
>
> Valete.
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, it is very good. It was written up in the Nashville Scene as excellent..
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: what's happening with the U.S. Conventus?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 2:33 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >how about ice cold vodka that goes down like ice water?
>
> Now you have my attention! The Punch sounds good too, but ice cold Vodka is always my preference.
> I've met some pretty neat Russian people here in Nashville, quite a few artisans, Do we have a Russian restaurant now?
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, I can beat Jack (Jack ain't worth Jack). I can get shine -- dangerous shine because it is so smooth and high proof. I also know of a first class Russian importer, owns a grocery and a restaurant, who just got his liquor import distributor license -- how about ice cold vodka that goes down like ice water? Or, we can get Russian water -- it goes down like bad rot gut vodka.
> >  
> > Or we could do a really evil party punch (one I used to have to mix up as a bartender while in college until insurance companies threatened the bars about making it) invented by Woody and Arlo Guthrie.
> >  
> > Doktor Jekylls Punch
> >  
> > 4 5ths 151 Rum
> > 2 5ths Sloe Gin
> > 1 5th Everclear/Pure Grain
> > 4 5ths boones farm wine
> > 2 liters 7UP
> > 2 packs unsweetened red Kool Aid
> > Dry Ice and as many Marschino cherries
> > as you can put into the punch.
> >  
> > When you think you've had enough; its too late, you've
> > had way too much. I've seen it knock out a Russian
> > Naval Marine at the same rate as it knocked out a
> > US Marine. They spent the next day as comrades
> > holding each other up and leaning against each other
> > as they spent the day -- peeing -- while arguing whether
> > the bed was spinning or the whole room was. That was
> > an interesting fleet week in San Francisco. The Russians
> > got shore leave for the first time. Shore police were very busy.
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: L Julia Aquila <dis_pensible@ ...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: what's happening with the U.S. Conventus?
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 1:35 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Well in lieu of moonshine, wonder if anyone is in the mood for Poke Salad, had a dream about it last night and it have overtaken the kudzu on the side of the road:)
> > *laugh*
> > Good thing Maior is bringing Mulsum but there is always Jack Daniels.
> >
> > Vale
> > Julia
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, violetphearsen@... wrote:
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma,
>  
> All this wrangling about the censor election is but a ploy, because Gn. Equitius Cato did not win the election and Modianus is now Censor. So Sulla and Co. want to find a way to invalidate the election results and get a new election, which if Equitius Cato does not win, will result in another attempt to invalidate that election, and so forth and so on ad nauseum.
> Enough! Time to put an end to these transparent attempts to undermine Nova Roma and our voting system, or no election will ever again count for anything.
> Modianus was duly elected Censor. End of story. Time to move on!
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>  
>  
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Will of the People
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:36 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The will of the people cannot violate the law.
>
> The consuls needs to set up a new election for Censor Suffectus.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfa n@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting really tired of being told that in this election the will of the
> > people prevailed. The will of the people 'might' prevail in a democracy,
> > though looking round the world at the moment, that's debatable.
> >
> > However Rome was not a democracy. In line with that, neither is Nova Roma.
> > Therefore to claim the will of the people prevailed is disingenuous at best.
> > In reality the will of a certain sector of the people prevailed. I am not
> > arguing against this but let's at least be honest about it.
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
>

> I also know of a guy, Masters in Religious Studies (Indo-European Studies),
> who did his Thesis on the identity of Rudra-Siva and Vayu in the Vedas. Given
> the mythic cognates of the Vedic Vayu, Baltic Velnias, Celtic Lugh, and the
> Germanic Odin -- plus the fact the Romans saw this god in Celtic and Germanic
> contexts as Mercury, he has a Mercury/Odin of the Long Spear/Lugh of the Long Arm/
> Velnias of the Long Death/Vayu of the Long Reach/Rudra-Siva of the Long Spear
> temple. Outside, it has Mercury as a herm. Inside the privacy fence is a carved tree of Velnias (imagine a totem pole that mostly still looks like a tree -- its dead but still standing), Odin and Lugh are the door posts/guardians also carved out of tree trunks. Inside is Vayu-Rudra-Siva. There is a tree inside the compound and a well (the well
> head is a lingam-yoni). He teaches/studies crafts and woodworking at the Tennessee
> place for crafts in Cookeville.

> Our governor has a Neptune shrine out in Lebanon.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica (drowning in ML posts) L. Juliae Aquilae quiritibus,
> > sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
> >
> > Good afternoon Magistra amícíâˆ`
> >
> >> >Could you please send me a copy of the text privatim? Gratias quam plurimas
> >> in >antecessus.
> >
> > Yes, of course, I will send it off asap~ hopefully hotmail will not eat it;)
> >
> > ATS: Received, with Greek intact and beautiful. Gratias quam plurimas!
> >
> > Bene valé in pacem deorum
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >

>
> You couldn't be further from the truth. Even before Modianus was "elected" (he wasn't, thank the Gods for the tribunes to stop that egotistical maniac from gaining another office and doing nothing in it), people pointed out that it was illegal.
>
> Like I said before, if Maior had wrong, I'd be upset, but you would not have seen a Tribune veto it, because she did not serve consecutive terms.
>
> Doesn't Vesta want everyone to follow the law? Why do you hate laws so much?
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, violetphearsen@ wrote:
> >
> > Citizens of Nova Roma,
> >
> > All this wrangling about the censor election is but a ploy, because Gn. Equitius Cato did not win the election and Modianus is now Censor. So Sulla and Co. want to find a way to invalidate the election results and get a new election, which if Equitius Cato does not win, will result in another attempt to invalidate that election, and so forth and so on ad nauseum.
> > Enough! Time to put an end to these transparent attempts to undermine Nova Roma and our voting system, or no election will ever again count for anything.
> > Modianus was duly elected Censor. End of story. Time to move on!
> >
> > Vale bene in pace Deorum,
> >
> > Maxima Valeria Messallina
> > Sacerdos Vestalis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Robert Woolwine <l_cornelius_sulla@>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Will of the People
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:36 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The will of the people cannot violate the law.
> >
> > The consuls needs to set up a new election for Censor Suffectus.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfa n@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm getting really tired of being told that in this election the will of the
> > > people prevailed. The will of the people 'might' prevail in a democracy,
> > > though looking round the world at the moment, that's debatable.
> > >
> > > However Rome was not a democracy. In line with that, neither is Nova Roma.
> > > Therefore to claim the will of the people prevailed is disingenuous at best.
> > > In reality the will of a certain sector of the people prevailed. I am not
> > > arguing against this but let's at least be honest about it.
> > >
> > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato L. Iuliae Aquilae sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> "This is the duty of our [Censor] and [he] would be glad to assist you."
>
> Fixed that for you :)
>
>
>
> Quirites, once again we are being fed a line that somehow automatically equates disagreement with personal attack. Maior and Modianus are primary exemplars of this kind of attitude. Now this Jesse Corradino person seems to be being affected by it. It is wrong, and those who foster the idea that in order to get along we have to agree, drone-like, are subjecting the Respublica to great harm. It is true that Maior and I hurl abuse at each other, but that is between us. It is almost second nature at this point, and will most likely continue until we meet face-to-face again. But to think that "peace" necessitates agreement is terribly misguided.
>
>
> Technically, since Modianus' name should not have appeared on the ballot, legally I ran unopposed. Should I now take the oath of office? Since apparently Modianus didn't need any official announcement to do so, neither should I. What would happen if I did? Since the opinion of me here is so low among some that I couldn't possibly do anything to make it worse - why not?
>
> Because it would be against the spirit of the Constitution? Because it would just be wrong to do so? Many of the current magistrates don't seem to care much about the Constitution or what is of questionable moral foundation, so...
>
> Yet I am willing to submit to the law even when I was not asked to - remember my voluntarily leaving the Senate House until my resignation issue was settled - because it is in the best interests of the Respublica. There is no reason legally that I should not stand for public office - in this case censor suffectus again when the new election is called - yet I understand that there is bitterness and there are walls to mend before I do so again, so I have made it clear that I will not.
>
> I belong to no faction. I have said what I have said continually whether it was alone or with others, and I will continue to do so, in this Forum, in the Senate House, the Law List, everywhere. I stand for the law. Like it or not, we have it, and what is the point of having it if we are not going to respect it? If we want to get rid of it, by all means. But do so legally, not by simply ignoring it if it is inconvenient.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "wuffa2001" <magewuffa@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete
>
> so is the book The Roman Cult of Mithras by Manfred Clauss
>
> any good?
>
> valete
>
> marcus cornelius felix
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete
>
> The above subject line is as accurate as the mantra "Modianus is elected Censor."
>
> Neither has any basis in the laws of THIS republic. For those who have not noticed we are trying to RECREATE the Roman Republic because it FELL in 31 BC with the battle of Actium.
>
> OUR laws and constitution are what matters.
>
> Valete
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>

  A. Tullia Scholastica Maximae Valeriae Messallinae S.P.D.

  

I thank you most kindly. The prayers, especially, are most appreciated and returned in kind to you and yours, before the sacred fire we tend in Vesta's honor.

    ATS:  Best, if badly belated, wishes for the Vestalia, and thanks for all that you do for the Res Publica.  I can almost see you making fire with two sticks...

Vale bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis

Vale!

--- On Mon, 6/8/09, Shoshana Hathaway <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:

From: Shoshana Hathaway <shoshanahathaway@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Best Wishes on the Vestalia
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:06 PM

Salve Maxima Valeria Messallina,

To you, Virgo Maxima, I offer my great respect and deep esteem.  I honor you, and your apprentices, and here, publicly, express my gratitude for what you do on our behalf.

To Vesta, my deepest reverence, humble prayers, and joyous praise, as ever.
Most Respectfully,
C. Maria Caeca

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Moore <http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=astrobear@...>  
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Best Wishes on the Vestalia

M. Valerius Potitus Maxima Valeria Messallina SPD.
 

On the occasion of the Vestalia, I want to extend best wishes to my honored cousin, the Chief Vestal of Nova Roma. May Vesta, Custos Flammae, bless you in your endeavors to restore her worship.
 
Vale, Potitus I offer the following from Ovid’s “Fasti”, Book VI. Vesta Mater, fave me.
Vesta, favour me! I’ll open my lips now in your service,
    If I’m indeed allowed to attend your sacred rites.
I was rapt in prayer: I felt the heavenly deity,
    And the happy earth shone with radiant light.
Not that I saw you, goddess (away with poets’ lies!)
    Nor were you to be looked on by any man:
But I knew what I’d not known, and the errors
    I’d held to were corrected without instruction.
They say Rome had celebrated the Parilia forty times,
    When the goddess, the Guardian of the Flame, was received
In her shrine, the work of Numa, that peace-loving king,
    (None more god-fearing was ever born in Sabine lands.)
The roofs you see of bronze were roofs of straw then,
    And its walls were made of wickerwork.
This meagre spot that supports the Hall of Vesta
    Was then the mighty palace of unshorn Numa.
Yet the form of the temple, that remains, they say,
    Is as before, and is shaped so for good reason.
Vesta’s identified with Earth: in them both’s unsleeping fire:
    Earth and the hearth are both symbols of home.
The Earth’s a ball not resting on any support,
    Its great weight hangs in the ether around it.
Its own revolutions keep its orb balanced,
    It has no sharp angles to press on anything,
And it’s placed in the midst of the heavens,
    And isn’t nearer or further from any side,
For if it weren’t convex, it would be nearer somewhere,
    And the universe wouldn’t have Earth’s weight at its centre.
There’s a globe suspended, enclosed by Syracusan art,
    That’s a small replica of the vast heavens,
And the Earth’s equidistant from top and bottom.
    Which is achieved by its spherical shape.
The form of this temple’s the same: there’s no angle
    Projecting from it: a rotunda saves it from the rain.
You ask why the goddess is served by virgins?
    I’ll reveal the true reason for that as well.
They say that Juno and Ceres were born of Ops
    By Saturn’s seed, Vesta was the third daughter:
The others married, both bore children they say,
    The third was always unable to tolerate men.
What wonder if a virgin delights in virgin servants,
    And only allows chaste hands to touch her sacred relics?
Realize that Vesta is nothing but living flame,
    And you’ll see that no bodies are born from her.
She’s truly a virgin, who neither accepts seed
    Nor yields it, and she loves virgin companions.
I foolishly thought for ages that there were statues
    Of Vesta, later I learnt there were none beneath her dome:
An undying fire is concealed with the shrine,
    But there’s no image of Vesta or of fire.
The earth’s supported by its energy: Vesta’s so called from ‘depending
    On energy’ (vi stando), and that could be the reason for her Greek name.
But the hearth (focus) is named from its fire that warms (fovet) all things:
    Formerly it stood in the most important room.
I think the vestibule was so called from Vesta too:
     In praying we address Vesta first, who holds first place.
It was once the custom to sit on long benches by the fire,
    And believe the gods were present at the meal:
Even now in sacrificing to ancient Vacuna,
    They sit and stand in front of her altar hearths.
Something of ancient custom has passed to us:
    A clean dish contains the food offered to Vesta.
See, loaves are hung from garlanded mules,
    And flowery wreaths veil the rough millstones.
Once farmers only used to parch wheat in their ovens,
    (And the goddess of ovens has her sacred rites):
The hearth baked the bread, set under the embers,
    On a broken tile placed there on the heated floor.
So the baker honours the hearth, and the lady of hearths,
    And the she-ass that turns the pumice millstones.

---

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: dis_pensible@...
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:22:44 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome to Nova Roma fpasquinus
>
> Cato, Cato, Cato...
>
> Mithrias on a Muffin! (the non Yahwist version of "Christ on a Cracker") *laugh* Now really you did not have to trouble yourself to "fix according to your interpretation." There was nothing to fix.
> Methinks you just wanted my attention;)
>
> Seriously though it was a a bit inappropriate to post a dissertation, or a commentary, on a welcome thread esp when there were so many opportunities in threads and posts in which the people you focused on were discussing the very topics you covered. Not a very good strategy for your cause, your message could easily be overlooked here.
> Cato darlin', as one New Yorker(who always pronounced her R's) to a New Joiseyite turned New Yorker, be efficient, get more bang for your buck - location, location, location;)
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Equitius Cato" <mlcinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cato L. Iuliae Aquilae sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > "This is the duty of our [Censor] and [he] would be glad to assist you."
> >
> > Fixed that for you :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Quirites, once again we are being fed a line that somehow automatically equates disagreement with personal attack. Maior and Modianus are primary exemplars of this kind of attitude. Now this Jesse Corradino person seems to be being affected by it. It is wrong, and those who foster the idea that in order to get along we have to agree, drone-like, are subjecting the Respublica to great harm. It is true that Maior and I hurl abuse at each other, but that is between us. It is almost second nature at this point, and will most likely continue until we meet face-to-face again. But to think that "peace" necessitates agreement is terribly misguided.
> >
> >
> > Technically, since Modianus' name should not have appeared on the ballot, legally I ran unopposed. Should I now take the oath of office? Since apparently Modianus didn't need any official announcement to do so, neither should I. What would happen if I did? Since the opinion of me here is so low among some that I couldn't possibly do anything to make it worse - why not?
> >
> > Because it would be against the spirit of the Constitution? Because it would just be wrong to do so? Many of the current magistrates don't seem to care much about the Constitution or what is of questionable moral foundation, so...
> >
> > Yet I am willing to submit to the law even when I was not asked to - remember my voluntarily leaving the Senate House until my resignation issue was settled - because it is in the best interests of the Respublica. There is no reason legally that I should not stand for public office - in this case censor suffectus again when the new election is called - yet I understand that there is bitterness and there are walls to mend before I do so again, so I have made it clear that I will not.
> >
> > I belong to no faction. I have said what I have said continually whether it was alone or with others, and I will continue to do so, in this Forum, in the Senate House, the Law List, everywhere. I stand for the law. Like it or not, we have it, and what is the point of having it if we are not going to respect it? If we want to get rid of it, by all means. But do so legally, not by simply ignoring it if it is inconvenient.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L Julia Aquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Quadratus,
>
> Oh I like working with silver clay, it does really well esp in sculptures. You're right though it is expensive.. However from what I understand the manufacture of the coins is such that real silver (gold or copper) would be used.
> If you don't have the links to the current issue here they are:
> http://novaroma.org/nr/Sestertius_signum
> http://www.novaroma.org/wiki/Coin_(Nova_Roma)
>
> They are still available and can be bought from Agrippa here(which also explains the process by which they are made):
> http://harpax.biz/coins.html
>
> The NR chat is not an official Nova Roma chat - it is essentially peopled by back alley folks although that statement will probably make this thread grow;)
>
> So you are not missing anything in my opinion. However I know some of the Nova Roma folks use Yahoo Im, and I think gmail's also.'
> About the land, all I can do is smile. A lot of people have a lot of ideas - hopefully one will take hold. We need to fundraise and invest the money, esp. here in the states. We also need much more planning and people committed to it for the long haul.
>
> It is ok to have a tunic and not a toga. Livia made a really nice one for Petronius Dexter - If you are on facebook you can add the lot of us and connect that way also.
>
> Here is a link on the proper way to address member of the Senate and Magistrates or citizen, generally a distinction is not made in the forum: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Using_Roman_names
>
> I think, but I am not certain, that you will be assigned a tribe after your 90 day probation period.
>
> Hope this helps, and feel free to enquire further~
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "n_apollonius_quadratus" <n_apollonius_quadratus@> wrote:
> >
> > Omnibus Salvete
> >
> > I've been trying to get into Nova Roma IRC for sometime now, and I am using Firefox 3, and I am using chatzilla? It's the IRC plug in for Firefox. Every time I try to connect, it says either refused or timed out. Now I changed my name over to N_Apollonius_Quadratus, so that shouldn't be an issue. I turned on and off my fire wall to see if that was an issue, and it wasn't. Is there something I'm missing?
> >
> > Also, what does it cost the government to print the Nova Roma coins? I like that there is coinage being produced, but they are brass. Nothing wrong with brass, but let's give Nova Roma a little kick in the tail. Now if Nova Roma doesn't have Tax Exempt status it sure needs to get it fast. That way authorized members of Nova Roma can go out and purchase PMC (precious metal clay). This clay is .999 pure silver. Well if you get the silver. The gold is a little hefty and getting copper isn't a bad idea. Since the authorized individual purchased the clay for Nova Roma, then Nova Roma owns that clay. This is a tax write off and will be refunded at the next tax returns. The silver is classified as basic operating expenses as the silver will be minted in Nova Roma fashion. Now Nova Roma has some serious pulling weight. Real silver coins to give buying power to the Ordo Equestor, and the Copper coinage would also bring more buying power. Now instead of blank fiat money polluting Nova Roma, we have actual real wealth on which to pull from. Not only that, but should the silver market rise, so too will Nova Roma's wealth. If every citizen of Nova Roma purchased one box of PMC and donated it to Nova Roma, and Nova Roma purchased some PMC for itself, then Nova Roma will begin to have some serious wealth being developed that will not depreciate. The people who donated the PMC will be able to declare the silver as a donation and be refunded for the cost of the PMC. Realistically the cost of PMC is higher than the cost of silver as it stands, but the cost isn't a factor as the expense is refunded since it was a donation.
> >
> > What is Nova Roma doing about expansion? If Nova Roma is not a tax exempt organization it needs to be quickly. As such puting down payments on land would place Nova Roma as the sole owner of that land, and there would be no land tax and the cost of purchasing that land would be refunded. On top of that, Nova Roma can take care of other costs by building on the land making it a sort of vacation spot for people to live an "authentic" Roman lifestyle. There are all sorts of quirky places like that riddling the US and other places as well. In Finland there was an Inn for some time that you could live as a Viking. I mean Santa Claus is in Finland for goodness sake. If we used the ram earth technique to build the houses and other such buildings, we can save on costs for construction. We would also be minimally impacting the environment. If a garden for farming was established then the land could become autonomous and eventually turn into a commune where Nova Roman citizens could actually live in the lifestyle they desired. As a Temple to the Roman Gods became established on the land more people would flock to it for it's Pagan connotations. Nova Roma would expand, gaining more wealth for itself, it would spread the word of Nova Roma as people go there to escape mundane life and explore a more "holistic" way of life, in turn this money collected from travelers would go into the Nova Roman pockets where partial investment in precious metals like silver and gold solidify the wealth of Nova Roma. As the construction of the Temple becomes complete the transition from tourist destination begins to change into a commune that is self sufficient and capable of housing Nova Roman citizens. This all while Nova Roma purchases new land to continue the cycle of tourist then commune. Has this ever been considered by Nova Roman officials? What steps are there to further the goal of physical manifestation of our place in this world? Meetings are fine and all, but a central hub where Nova Romans can gather and LIVE in the lifestyle we choose, what is being to done to carry this out?
> >
> > Also, is there going to be a meet up in the US or isn't there? I've been trying to pay attention.
> >
> > And is it okay to have a tunic but not a toga?
> >
> > What is the proper way to address members of the Senate and other such Magistrates?
> >
> > And how come I haven't been assigned to my tribe yet?
> >
> > These and other questions should probably stay in my head. Until next time...
> >
> > Valete.
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Chantal Gaudiano <aerdensrw@...> wrote:
>
> LICTRIX PAULLA CORVA GAUDIALIS CIVIBUS NOVAE ROMAE SPD
>
> Ego, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (Chantal Whittington), lictrix curiata Novae Romae testificor L. Coruncanium Catonem aedilem curulis Novae Romae creari.
>
> Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro religione Romana felicissime officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.
>
> ==============
>
> I, Paulla Corva Gaudialis (Chantal Whittington), as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby witness the appointment of L. Coruncanius Cato as Aedilis curulis of Nova Roma.
>
> As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish him good fortune in his office and in his work on behalf of the Religio Romana.
>
> Valete in pace deorum,
>  
> Paulla Corva Gaudialis
>

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:07 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

Salve Maxima Valeria Messallina
 
With respect you need to  remember that Cato has already stated, on more than one occasion, that he WILL NOT BE A CANDIDATE for Censor when a new election is called.
 
To some of us this is about the law and the constitution not candidates.
 
Vale
 
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Censor