> As a follow up, Cato, the ancient pagan Romans already were wise enough to know that omnipotens was an impossible concept.

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

 

Cato Sempronio sal.

Salve.

What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.

I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.

In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Awww.... no sympathy from me. You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by
> digging into my personal life. How does it feel? "Highly inappropriate?"
> Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Sempronio sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little
> > stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot
> > concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any
> > interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> >
> > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a
> > relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> >
> > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of
> > proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you
> > claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by
> > page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if
> > anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of
> > this writing, you have not yet answered.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

<<2.1. Re: More Reflections for Cato
    Posted by: "David Kling" tau.athanasios@... athanasiosofspfd
    Date: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:46 pm ((PDT))

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit

Proof?  He claims to have been a first hand witness.  What other proof are
you wanting?  If he wrote an article about the experience would that help
you?  If he blogged about it what then?  Are you looking for an account from
someone else, would that make it "real" enough for you?  If you think the
account is crap then just say, "I don't believe that nonsense."  Your
incessant desire for "proof" is pointless.  You either a. believe the
account; b. disbelieve the account; or c. be skeptical and non-committed.
The only thing you have accomplished is prove that you cannot argue with
Sempronius who "owned" you several e-mails ago.

Vale;

Modianus>>

 

As a non-citizen, I generally lurk in order to pick up the occasional piece of actual Roman information such as in the daily posts recently taken over by Cato. Unfortunately, that means I have to skim through the bulk of the rest of the discussion, which is often similar to the above email.

A few editorial comments:

- "Owned" in an email? Are you serious? This is the second time I've seen this in a week or so. What are you, twelve years old? There has been an attempt on this list to stick to adult levels of discussion. "Owned?" Please. Consult the nearest thesaurus if you are unable to express yourself in terms more advanced than "yo momma" jokes.  

- Cato made the mistake of asking Regulus for proof of an incident of telekinesis that Regulus claims to have witnessed. In the same post, Regulus mentioned having seen monks dry out frozen blankets using body heat. I've seen examples of this in documentaries, as well as resisting cold, being pierced without bleeding, you name it. Unusual physical feats have been demonstrated time and again (the human body is an amazing instrument). Unlike such physical feats, mental telekinesis is impossible according to the currently known laws of physics. Cato was obviously skeptical and asked for proof - such as a video - that he could check out and evaluate. In the terms above, he was (c) and sought additional information to decide whether he was going to end up as (a) or (b).

- The response should have been either "sure, there was an article and photos posted here" or "another witness took this video here" or "it was a small event and there were no recordings, I'm just passing on what I saw". Instead, Cato got long-winded philosophical arguments that had nothing to do with his question. Finally, he gave up trying to ask the question because he would have gotten farther talking to a wall. When I was in high school biology, when a student tried to pad an answer with unrelated info in an attempt to get a higher grade, my teacher marked it wrong with the note "AQA" - Answer the Question Asked. It's not that hard.

- Regulus, you are obviously an educated individual. You should know better than to conduct pointless arguments for arguments' sake (unless in the forum of a debating society). As an adult, you should also try to be above ad hominem attacks especially while claiming to be engaged in intellectual debate. Ostensibly this list exists to promote Roman culture - surely you could make better use of your education and time to post something relevant to that topic. I for one would be interested to see someone with a good grounding in the subject tackle the influence of the Greek philosophical schools in Roman thought, or the interactions of Roman religion with philosophy, or the influence of foreign cults on both Roman religion and philosophy, or the relation if any between Pythagorean theory and mysticism to the practical Roman engineering arts.

Cripes, people.. maybe I have been deployed for too long and have a extremely low BS threshold but come on. The cumulative knowledge on this list on assorted things Roman is pretty impressive by all indications. It is truly sad that most of the time here is spent on grade school level bickering. It is this sort of behavior that drives interested people away from your organization. Show some respect for yourself as well as your fellow citizens and try to conduct yourselves reasonably. You do yourself no honor by coming across like an eight year old with an attitude and an encyclopedia.

Lastly, if anyone feels I am out of line here feel free by all means to let loose - preferably to my personal email so you don't pollute the commons here. Really, go ahead and knock yourself out doing it if it massages your ego. I am a military officer and have the thick skin to take it. Heck, moderate me or boot me off the listserv if it strikes your fancy, as I'm just a guest in the house here and have no dog in the fight. Having said that, I am going back into lurker mode. I will not respond to the sort of "nyah nyah" playground baiting (however padded with big words) that is the stock in trade of certain folks here. Any actual useful comments or criticism I will read and respond to.

Have a pleasant and productive day,

Andy

PS. In regards to the recent posting of favorite Latin quotes, one of mine remains the motto of the National Space Society - "Ad astra per ardua". It is my sincere hope that I live long enough to see some intrepid explorers live that quote by pushing out to one of our sister spheres.

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:43 AM, <Kveldulf@...> wrote:

 

Cripes, people.. maybe I have been deployed for too long and have a extremely low BS threshold but come on. The cumulative knowledge on this list on assorted things Roman is pretty impressive by all indications. It is truly sad that most of the time here is spent on grade school level bickering. It is this sort of behavior that drives interested people away from your organization. Show some respect for yourself as well as your fellow citizens and try to conduct yourselves reasonably. You do yourself no honor by coming across like an eight year old with an attitude and an encyclopedia.

Lastly, if anyone feels I am out of line here feel free by all means to let loose - preferably to my personal email so you don't pollute the commons here. Really, go ahead and knock yourself out doing it if it massages your ego. I am a military officer and have the thick skin to take it. Heck, moderate me or boot me off the listserv if it strikes your fancy, as I'm just a guest in the house here and have no dog in the fight. Having said that, I am going back into lurker mode. I will not respond to the sort of "nyah nyah" playground baiting (however padded with big words) that is the stock in trade of certain folks here. Any actual useful comments or criticism I will read and respond to.

Have a pleasant and productive day,

Andy

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
>
> Cato Stephano Venatori sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> And I would ask you the same question that I asked Sempronius Regulus: did
> anyone record these tests? Is there any documentation of them anywhere? It
> would, again, be interesting to see proof of something that is so outside
> the "normal". This question is not an attack, it is an inquiry.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

No, no recordings beyond the memories of the participants. The milieu
was not scientific testing, but a religious one; inquiry accepted ,-)

I can not prove to you, or anyone else, the reality of my personal,
subjective universe, which is why I mentioned that the anecdotes are
within my personal store of truth.

Could I replicate what I did as a younger, healthier man? I do not
know. But I agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere that absence
of evidence is not evidence of absence. One could apply that maxim to
the discussion of religious figures from antiquity or anecdotes of
religious ecstasy and transport.

As with physical skills or intellectual ability beyond the norm,
psychic abilities are likely present within a small percentage of the
total population of earth.

In example, when I go to the batting cages at the amusement center, I
will contend against the 60 MPH hardball or slow-pitch softball
machines. Against these, I get the bat on the ball pretty close to
100% of the time. I step up to faster pitches and am lucky to hit my
weight. I do not possess that skill with the bat, nor the hand-eye
coordination, needed to hit the fast-ball that a small group of
professional athletes does.

(For those unfamiliar with American baseball, the batting average [hit
balls per legal "at-bat"] is expressed as a decimal part of 1: 100%
would be a batting average of 1.000, success 1/3 of the time would be
.333, hitting my current weight would be .225, anything over .300 in
considered having a good season ,-)

In another example, I rarely need an electronic calculator to perform
basic mathematical equations, nor even some of the less complex
algebraic functions. Try as I did for 3 semesters in college,
calculus torpedoed my ambitions of becoming an electrical engineer. M
Annia on the other hand, gained a Master's in Electrical Engineering
because she has the ability to understand and perform higher
mathematical functions.

I think and believe that I do possess some small amount of talent in a
non-physical, non-intellectual set of abilities. I think and believe
that there are others who likewise possess those skills, to lesser or
greater extent.

The three make up the Gifts we have from the Holy Powers at birth:
Life (the physical), Mind (the intellectual) and Will (the psychic).

For some this is a sufficiency, others not, que sera, sera; no point
for contention, but I do like discussion.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta mysticus

>
> Salve,
> Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
>  
> I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> Vale,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate?"  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Cato Sempronio sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
>
> I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
>
> In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

> I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> omniscient deity?"
>
> But we're not playing that game, are we.--
>

>
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius.regulus@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> >  
> > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate?"  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Sempronio sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> >
> > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> >
> > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

>
> > I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> > if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> > desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> > monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> > self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> > personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> > omniscient deity?"
> >
> > But we're not playing that game, are we.--
> >
>
> >
> >
> > - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius.regulus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> > >  
> > > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > > Vale,
> > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@>
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> > >
> > > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate?"  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> > >
> > > Vale;
> > >
> > > Modianus
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Sempronio sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> > >
> > > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> > >
> > > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kveldulf@... wrote:
It is truly sad that most of the time here is spent on grade school level bickering.

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:32:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
>
> Ave Cato;
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> >
> > Cato Stephano Venatori sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > And I would ask you the same question that I asked Sempronius Regulus: did
> > anyone record these tests? Is there any documentation of them anywhere? It
> > would, again, be interesting to see proof of something that is so outside
> > the "normal". This question is not an attack, it is an inquiry.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
> No, no recordings beyond the memories of the participants. The milieu
> was not scientific testing, but a religious one; inquiry accepted ,-)
>
> I can not prove to you, or anyone else, the reality of my personal,
> subjective universe, which is why I mentioned that the anecdotes are
> within my personal store of truth.
>
> Could I replicate what I did as a younger, healthier man? I do not
> know. But I agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere that absence
> of evidence is not evidence of absence. One could apply that maxim to
> the discussion of religious figures from antiquity or anecdotes of
> religious ecstasy and transport.
>
> As with physical skills or intellectual ability beyond the norm,
> psychic abilities are likely present within a small percentage of the
> total population of earth.
>
> In example, when I go to the batting cages at the amusement center, I
> will contend against the 60 MPH hardball or slow-pitch softball
> machines. Against these, I get the bat on the ball pretty close to
> 100% of the time. I step up to faster pitches and am lucky to hit my
> weight. I do not possess that skill with the bat, nor the hand-eye
> coordination, needed to hit the fast-ball that a small group of
> professional athletes does.
>
> (For those unfamiliar with American baseball, the batting average [hit
> balls per legal "at-bat"] is expressed as a decimal part of 1: 100%
> would be a batting average of 1.000, success 1/3 of the time would be
> .333, hitting my current weight would be .225, anything over .300 in
> considered having a good season ,-)
>
> In another example, I rarely need an electronic calculator to perform
> basic mathematical equations, nor even some of the less complex
> algebraic functions. Try as I did for 3 semesters in college,
> calculus torpedoed my ambitions of becoming an electrical engineer. M
> Annia on the other hand, gained a Master's in Electrical Engineering
> because she has the ability to understand and perform higher
> mathematical functions.
>
> I think and believe that I do possess some small amount of talent in a
> non-physical, non-intellectual set of abilities. I think and believe
> that there are others who likewise possess those skills, to lesser or
> greater extent.
>
> The three make up the Gifts we have from the Holy Powers at birth:
> Life (the physical), Mind (the intellectual) and Will (the psychic).
>
> For some this is a sufficiency, others not, que sera, sera; no point
> for contention, but I do like discussion.
>
> =====================================
> In amicitia et fide
> Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta mysticus
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
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> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: catoinnyc@...
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:41:25 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
>
> Cato Marcae Hortensiae sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> First, I believe that the highest goal of human life is to love God. God is neither male nor female. God is not a giant-sized human with superpowers.
>
> You wrote: "I'm a woman, women are cooperative, egalitarian, flexible, compassionate, nuturing. My conception of the Supreme Deity would reflect all this..."
>
> Elizabeth Bathory; Katherine Knight; Irma Grese; Isla Koch; Beverly Gail Aillit; Isabella of Castile; Myra Hindley; Marybeth Tinning; Mary Anne Cotton; Delphine LaLaurie; Jian Qing...would you like to ask their hundreds of thousands - millions, even - of victims exactly how "nurturing" these women were? How "egalitarian"? How "compassionate"?
>
> Generalities like this are never useful, as there have been countless examples of all kinds of people of both genders.
>
> That very basic flaw aside, what I am reading is a concept of the divine which does not have its center on the divine but instead centers itself on what *you* want.
>
> This is not necessarily a criticism as much as simply an observation. You want God to be like you, to want the things you want, to like what you like and to dislike what you dislike. You want the divine plan to be the plan you have for the world. In other words, you want God to be a reflection of you - you want God to be made in your image. If a God is not, then obviously you must by necessity dismiss that God. You are creating a mold into which God must fit in order for Him/Her to be acceptable - to you.
>
> But the divine transcends human desire. It is not something which can be put into a box of human desire - or even need. It simply is.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
> <*> Your email settings:
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>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
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>
> <*> To change settings via email:
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>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>
> I see I left out the PS. Examine your motives for being on the Back Alley list. Are they a virtue or a vice?
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>  
> I know of the existence of the Back Alley but have not joined it.
> It is something we should all strive to overcome within ourselves.
> The fact that Cato is on that list just shows he is not a true Christian
> and his "orthodoxy" is a narcisstic pastime -- some type of public
> masterbatory status symbol.
>  
> As a pagan philosopher, I'm called upon to transcend such,
> primarily within myself, and thus, when invited to join, I did not.
>  
> A little history is in order. At Cato's and Poplicola's urging, Sulla
> invited me to join the "Back Alley". Some suggestions were made that
> people may be talking about me behind my back. Well, while they
> shouldn't do that with anyone, they do. So, joining another list on
> that motive was BS.
>  
> Anyway, having suspicions, I forwarded Sulla's email to my dear friend
> and NR mentor, Marinus. When he confirmed my suspicions that the
> "Back Alley" is vile, I was encouraged in my decision that it was not
> something I needed to nor wished to join. The fact that Cato is a member
> of it and urged my invitation shows he is a fake Christian (unless, he
> wants to claim he is legit and all Christians are fakes just like him)..
>  
> My advocacy of Dumezil also caused a misperception of some of the
> fascists within Nova Roma that I was one of them. I am not.
>  
> Whenever any politically questionable email came my way, I asked
> my dear guide in Nova Roma politics about it and/or forwarded it.
>  
> Politically, Marinus is my mentor. He has unfailingly show me the ethical
> path through Nova Roma politics. So, over the some 4 years I have been a
> citizen of Nova Roma, if anyone wants to know where I stand. I stand with
> Marinus. 
>  
> Valete omnes,
> A. Sempronius Regulus 
>  
> P.S.,
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:33 PM
>
>
>  
>
> Sa;vete;
> Cato has retired to the safety of the Back Alley, where he doesn't have to think. Anyway he challenged me with the question below which I shall answer in the Forum. [note the scornful quote marks]
>
> CATO :
>
> I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> omniscient deity?"
>
> But we're not playing that game, are we.--
>
> MAIOR: I definitely willing to take this question on in the Forum. So others may wish to as well. I'll be back with response.
> bene valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> >  
> > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate? "  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Sempronio sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> >
> > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> >
> > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

On 8/1/09, lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
> I agree with most of the post except this part. I do not consider "grade
> school level". It's more prevelant in adults than students.
>
> -Anna
> Also "owned" is quite common place regardless of age if you happen to be a
> gamer like myself.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kveldulf@... wrote:
> It is truly sad that most of the time here is spent on grade school level
> bickering.
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>

> And I was wrong about Jesse/woden, he wasn't being ironic. Oh my, physics must obey certain laws! I'm glad the old Newtonian physics somehow decided to obey the new physics....
>

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Newtonian physics still "works", but within its appropriate scope. It does not apply to very high or low energies or distances. In other words, it is now a *subset* of the physical laws. Physics always obeys some laws; the question is how many of them our models are aware of and incorporate.

Vale,

Gualterus

>
> Well, since I have it that Cato -- well -- that he wanted to be Censor to pack the Senate with Sulla allies, I have absolutely no esteem, regard, respect, or any other regard but scorn for him. I hoped even as of a few days ago to save him and turn him around.
>  
> You look back in the archives, I had I praise for him early on. His last tactics since he resigned and came back are of a single piece. He's not to be trusted. Anyway...
>  
> He just happened to walk into and step into metaphysical doo doo. I replied.. He stepped into it deeper not knowing his incoherence in his reply.
>  
>  He can bad mouth me all he wants. He is absolutely not a good pagan but he is even vile on his own Christian standards. I have half a mind to send all his BS to his bishop -- effective only if he is SCOBA -- and let his bishop and priest deal with him.
>  
>
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maior <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:29 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Salvete Regule et omnes;
> Marinus is a first class person to look to for Nova Roma. In my case I had the good fortune to get to know Saturninus and Quintillianus, whom I trust implicitly. Their friendship only brings good things.
>
> As for the BA, yes it's a sewer, I show up there, so does Livia Plauta, and Lentulus to tell the other side of the story. I get rubbished there and yes, Cato is doing it to you Regule, saying you are creepy and he is afraid of you. I told him it was nonsense.
>
> And I was wrong about Jesse/woden, he wasn't being ironic. Oh my, physics must obey certain laws! I'm glad the old Newtonian physics somehow decided to obey the new physics....
>
> gods where are peoples minds. Cato has kindly explained for everyone that monotheistic deities are human constructs:)
> Maior
>
> >
> > I see I left out the PS. Examine your motives for being on the Back Alley list. Are they a virtue or a vice?
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius. regulus@ ..>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >  
> > I know of the existence of the Back Alley but have not joined it.
> > It is something we should all strive to overcome within ourselves.
> > The fact that Cato is on that list just shows he is not a true Christian
> > and his "orthodoxy" is a narcisstic pastime -- some type of public
> > masterbatory status symbol.
> >  
> > As a pagan philosopher, I'm called upon to transcend such,
> > primarily within myself, and thus, when invited to join, I did not.
> >  
> > A little history is in order. At Cato's and Poplicola's urging, Sulla
> > invited me to join the "Back Alley". Some suggestions were made that
> > people may be talking about me behind my back. Well, while they
> > shouldn't do that with anyone, they do. So, joining another list on
> > that motive was BS.
> >  
> > Anyway, having suspicions, I forwarded Sulla's email to my dear friend
> > and NR mentor, Marinus. When he confirmed my suspicions that the
> > "Back Alley" is vile, I was encouraged in my decision that it was not
> > something I needed to nor wished to join. The fact that Cato is a member
> > of it and urged my invitation shows he is a fake Christian (unless, he
> > wants to claim he is legit and all Christians are fakes just like him)..
> >  
> > My advocacy of Dumezil also caused a misperception of some of the
> > fascists within Nova Roma that I was one of them. I am not.
> >  
> > Whenever any politically questionable email came my way, I asked
> > my dear guide in Nova Roma politics about it and/or forwarded it.
> >  
> > Politically, Marinus is my mentor. He has unfailingly show me the ethical
> > path through Nova Roma politics. So, over the some 4 years I have been a
> > citizen of Nova Roma, if anyone wants to know where I stand. I stand with
> > Marinus. 
> >  
> > Valete omnes,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus 
> >  
> > P.S.,
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:33 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Sa;vete;
> > Cato has retired to the safety of the Back Alley, where he doesn't have to think. Anyway he challenged me with the question below which I shall answer in the Forum. [note the scornful quote marks]
> >
> > CATO :
> >
> > I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> > if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> > desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> > monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> > self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> > personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> > omniscient deity?"
> >
> > But we're not playing that game, are we.--
> >
> > MAIOR: I definitely willing to take this question on in the Forum. So others may wish to as well. I'll be back with response.
> > bene valete
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > - In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> > >  
> > > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > > Vale,
> > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...>
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> > >
> > > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate? "  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> > >
> > > Vale;
> > >
> > > Modianus
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Sempronio sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> > >
> > > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> > >
> > > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

>
> Salvete omnes,
>  
> While I am working on the philosophy pages and there are a few updates on the reading list, btw. I was wondering if we could add a section. It would be a new reading list on Ancient Science and Technology. I taught for a number of years courses in the history and philosophy of science over in Physics and School of Engineering for science and engineering majors on this topic. I could upload a large bibliography almost instantly.
>  
> I don't know if the Wiki powers that be allow me to go ahead and add a new reading list or not.
>  
> Valete omnes,
> A. Sempronius Regulus 
>

>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Maior wrote:
>
> [excision]
> women are cooperative, egalitarian, flexible, compassionate, nuturing.
> [excision]
>

My, how enlightened your attitude is: Margeret Thatcher, Indira
Gandhi, Golda Meir, Eva Peron, Bonnie Parker, Mary Tudor, Elizabeth
Tudor, Lizzie Borden...spare us the sexist stereotyping.

Vale - Venator

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Maior" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> -- Gualtere;
> the point I was making, was that Physics doesn't obey laws at all. That means it has choice; to obey or disobey. Scientists observe phenomena and then when they collect enough data they describe it. Those are our scientific 'laws'.
> At different time man's ability to observe and record phenomena changes, so the description changes. If and when we can consistently record lama's or yogis controlling their respiration or Taoists employing their ch'i, a new description will emerge....
> Maior
>
>
> Physics always obeys some laws; the question is how many of them our models are aware of and incorporate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
>

> My, how enlightened your attitude is: Margeret Thatcher, Indira
> Gandhi, Golda Meir, Eva Peron, Bonnie Parker, Mary Tudor, Elizabeth
> Tudor, Lizzie Borden...spare us the sexist stereotyping.
>
> Vale - Venator
>

>
> Salve,
>
>
>
> Why won't anyone acknowledge the second law of thermodynamics? I don't understand why people are trying to debate a point that has been resolved summarily for hundreds of years now. Telekinesis and "miracles" like it are physically impossible, and since the physical universe obeys physical laws, they are impossible altogether. They cannot happen, regardless of subjective realities. Indeed, subjectivity is the opposite of the objectivity of the material world which is precisely where these things cannot happen, so subjective experience cannot substantiate such incredible claims. Do you guys just want to argue this point for its own sake or do you actually believe that Newtonian physics are invalid?
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> JC
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
> > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:32:07 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
> >
> > Ave Cato;
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato Stephano Venatori sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > And I would ask you the same question that I asked Sempronius Regulus: did
> > > anyone record these tests? Is there any documentation of them anywhere? It
> > > would, again, be interesting to see proof of something that is so outside
> > > the "normal". This question is not an attack, it is an inquiry.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
> > No, no recordings beyond the memories of the participants. The milieu
> > was not scientific testing, but a religious one; inquiry accepted ,-)
> >
> > I can not prove to you, or anyone else, the reality of my personal,
> > subjective universe, which is why I mentioned that the anecdotes are
> > within my personal store of truth.
> >
> > Could I replicate what I did as a younger, healthier man? I do not
> > know. But I agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere that absence
> > of evidence is not evidence of absence. One could apply that maxim to
> > the discussion of religious figures from antiquity or anecdotes of
> > religious ecstasy and transport.
> >
> > As with physical skills or intellectual ability beyond the norm,
> > psychic abilities are likely present within a small percentage of the
> > total population of earth.
> >
> > In example, when I go to the batting cages at the amusement center, I
> > will contend against the 60 MPH hardball or slow-pitch softball
> > machines. Against these, I get the bat on the ball pretty close to
> > 100% of the time. I step up to faster pitches and am lucky to hit my
> > weight. I do not possess that skill with the bat, nor the hand-eye
> > coordination, needed to hit the fast-ball that a small group of
> > professional athletes does.
> >
> > (For those unfamiliar with American baseball, the batting average [hit
> > balls per legal "at-bat"] is expressed as a decimal part of 1: 100%
> > would be a batting average of 1.000, success 1/3 of the time would be
> > .333, hitting my current weight would be .225, anything over .300 in
> > considered having a good season ,-)
> >
> > In another example, I rarely need an electronic calculator to perform
> > basic mathematical equations, nor even some of the less complex
> > algebraic functions. Try as I did for 3 semesters in college,
> > calculus torpedoed my ambitions of becoming an electrical engineer. M
> > Annia on the other hand, gained a Master's in Electrical Engineering
> > because she has the ability to understand and perform higher
> > mathematical functions.
> >
> > I think and believe that I do possess some small amount of talent in a
> > non-physical, non-intellectual set of abilities. I think and believe
> > that there are others who likewise possess those skills, to lesser or
> > greater extent.
> >
> > The three make up the Gifts we have from the Holy Powers at birth:
> > Life (the physical), Mind (the intellectual) and Will (the psychic).
> >
> > For some this is a sufficiency, others not, que sera, sera; no point
> > for contention, but I do like discussion.
> >
> > =====================================
> > In amicitia et fide
> > Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> > Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
> > Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta mysticus
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your vacation photos on your phone!
> http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM
>

>
> Salvete Regule et omnes;
> Marinus is a first class person to look to for Nova Roma. In my case I had the good fortune to get to know Saturninus and Quintillianus, whom I trust implicitly. Their friendship only brings good things.
>
> As for the BA, yes it's a sewer, I show up there, so does Livia Plauta, and Lentulus to tell the other side of the story. I get rubbished there and yes, Cato is doing it to you Regule, saying you are creepy and he is afraid of you. I told him it was nonsense.
>
> And I was wrong about Jesse/woden, he wasn't being ironic. Oh my, physics must obey certain laws! I'm glad the old Newtonian physics somehow decided to obey the new physics....
>
> gods where are peoples minds. Cato has kindly explained for everyone that monotheistic deities are human constructs:)
> Maior
>
>
>
> >
> > I see I left out the PS. Examine your motives for being on the Back Alley list. Are they a virtue or a vice?
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >  
> > I know of the existence of the Back Alley but have not joined it.
> > It is something we should all strive to overcome within ourselves.
> > The fact that Cato is on that list just shows he is not a true Christian
> > and his "orthodoxy" is a narcisstic pastime -- some type of public
> > masterbatory status symbol.
> >  
> > As a pagan philosopher, I'm called upon to transcend such,
> > primarily within myself, and thus, when invited to join, I did not.
> >  
> > A little history is in order. At Cato's and Poplicola's urging, Sulla
> > invited me to join the "Back Alley". Some suggestions were made that
> > people may be talking about me behind my back. Well, while they
> > shouldn't do that with anyone, they do. So, joining another list on
> > that motive was BS.
> >  
> > Anyway, having suspicions, I forwarded Sulla's email to my dear friend
> > and NR mentor, Marinus. When he confirmed my suspicions that the
> > "Back Alley" is vile, I was encouraged in my decision that it was not
> > something I needed to nor wished to join. The fact that Cato is a member
> > of it and urged my invitation shows he is a fake Christian (unless, he
> > wants to claim he is legit and all Christians are fakes just like him)..
> >  
> > My advocacy of Dumezil also caused a misperception of some of the
> > fascists within Nova Roma that I was one of them. I am not.
> >  
> > Whenever any politically questionable email came my way, I asked
> > my dear guide in Nova Roma politics about it and/or forwarded it.
> >  
> > Politically, Marinus is my mentor. He has unfailingly show me the ethical
> > path through Nova Roma politics. So, over the some 4 years I have been a
> > citizen of Nova Roma, if anyone wants to know where I stand. I stand with
> > Marinus. 
> >  
> > Valete omnes,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus 
> >  
> > P.S.,
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:33 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Sa;vete;
> > Cato has retired to the safety of the Back Alley, where he doesn't have to think. Anyway he challenged me with the question below which I shall answer in the Forum. [note the scornful quote marks]
> >
> > CATO :
> >
> > I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> > if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> > desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> > monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> > self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> > personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> > omniscient deity?"
> >
> > But we're not playing that game, are we.--
> >
> > MAIOR: I definitely willing to take this question on in the Forum. So others may wish to as well. I'll be back with response.
> > bene valete
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > - In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> > >  
> > > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > > Vale,
> > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...>
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> > >
> > > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate? "  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> > >
> > > Vale;
> > >
> > > Modianus
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Sempronio sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> > >
> > > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> > >
> > > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> "Are they[membership on the BA list] a virtue or a vice?
>
> Along with many others I am a member of the BA list. It is a list that is not moderated and treats adults as adults. It is a list where Nova Romans and I guess others go to discuss subjects of interest. I would guess that half or more of the senior elected officials of Nova Roma are subscribed members.
>
> Among them would be Modianus, Aurelianus, Maior, Piscnius ,Cornelius Lentulus
> Galerius Aurelianus, both Cato's, Livia Plauta, Ceasar, Sulla and myself.
>
> As with the other 30 or so Nova Roman lists official and unofficial that I am a member of it is simply a tool. Being a member of the BA list is neither a virture nor a vice.
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: asempronius.regulus@...
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:08:01 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I see I left out the PS. Examine your motives for being on the Back Alley list. Are they a virtue or a vice?
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Back Alley, NR Politics, and Me
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:01 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> I know of the existence of the Back Alley but have not joined it.
> It is something we should all strive to overcome within ourselves.
> The fact that Cato is on that list just shows he is not a true Christian
> and his "orthodoxy" is a narcisstic pastime -- some type of public
> masterbatory status symbol.
>
> As a pagan philosopher, I'm called upon to transcend such,
> primarily within myself, and thus, when invited to join, I did not.
>
> A little history is in order. At Cato's and Poplicola's urging, Sulla
> invited me to join the "Back Alley". Some suggestions were made that
> people may be talking about me behind my back. Well, while they
> shouldn't do that with anyone, they do. So, joining another list on
> that motive was BS.
>
> Anyway, having suspicions, I forwarded Sulla's email to my dear friend
> and NR mentor, Marinus. When he confirmed my suspicions that the
> "Back Alley" is vile, I was encouraged in my decision that it was not
> something I needed to nor wished to join. The fact that Cato is a member
> of it and urged my invitation shows he is a fake Christian (unless, he
> wants to claim he is legit and all Christians are fakes just like him)..
>
> My advocacy of Dumezil also caused a misperception of some of the
> fascists within Nova Roma that I was one of them. I am not.
>
> Whenever any politically questionable email came my way, I asked
> my dear guide in Nova Roma politics about it and/or forwarded it.
>
> Politically, Marinus is my mentor. He has unfailingly show me the ethical
> path through Nova Roma politics. So, over the some 4 years I have been a
> citizen of Nova Roma, if anyone wants to know where I stand. I stand with
> Marinus.
>
> Valete omnes,
> A. Sempronius Regulus
>
> P.S.,
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Maior <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 6:33 PM
>
>
>
>
> Sa;vete;
> Cato has retired to the safety of the Back Alley, where he doesn't have to think. Anyway he challenged me with the question below which I shall answer in the Forum. [note the scornful quote marks]
>
> CATO :
>
> I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely an infantile and fearful
> desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> omniscient deity?"
>
> But we're not playing that game, are we.--
>
> MAIOR: I definitely willing to take this question on in the Forum. So others may wish to as well. I'll be back with response.
> bene valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> - In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius. regulus@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> >
> > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life.
> > Vale,
> > A. Sempronius Regulus
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@ ...>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > Awww.... no sympathy from me. You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life. How does it feel? "Highly inappropriate? " Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Sempronio sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> >
> > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> >
> > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

> >
> > > I could just as easily ask you [Maior] "what
> > > if your personal cherry-picking religiosity is merely aninfantile and fearful
> > > desire to escape the immediate, singular and emotional demands made by the
> > > monotheistic faiths? What if your so-called 'syncretic' globs of purely
> > > self-defined 'spirituality' are nothing more than a cover for your fear of
> > > personal responsibility and accountability to a single, omnipotent and
> > > omniscient deity?"
> > >
> > > But we're not playing that game, are we.--
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > - In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Sempronius Regulus" <asempronius.regulus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve,
> > > > Unlike some, at least you, Modianus, have a personal life that others that don't have time to attack.
> > > >  
> > > > I think Cato is using the "attack on my personal life" as an excuse to get off the hook. Again, its the switcheroo in Cato's shell game. He was not holding his own but can't acknowledge it. There are only two times where I think I touched on his personal life.
> > > > One, he started off saying he "could tell by reading the first sentence" in reply to me.
> > > > I said he must be a one-liner guy who can't hold a long conversation of depth and that is probably why he is still single. From that point, I spoke of my life. Not his. I've learned in a 30 year marriage that a long-term relationship is a lifelong conversation. Even the silences between two people together that long are pregnant with significance. Otherwise, I asked him if he can wiggle his toes. If noting he is not able to sustain a conversation and asking him whether he can wiggle his toes is attacking his personal life -- well, maybe he needs to go out a get a personal life. One-liners and toes wiggling is not much of a life. 
> > > > Vale,
> > > > A. Sempronius Regulus
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Cato: Why its IOM and not IOO
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:36 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Gaio Equitio Catoni salutem dicit
> > > >
> > > > Awww.... no sympathy from me.  You and Sulla have been enjoying yourself by digging into my personal life.  How does it feel?  "Highly inappropriate?"  Remember that the next time you do it to someone else.
> > > >
> > > > Vale;
> > > >
> > > > Modianus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Gaius Equitius Cato <catoinnyc@gmail. com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cato Sempronio sal.
> > > >
> > > > Salve.
> > > >
> > > > What an extraordinary slide into ad hominem. I am more than a little stunned by this newest digression - into my personal life - and cannot concieve of any possible set of circumstances under which it would be of any interest or relevence to this discussion. I find it highly inappropriate.
> > > >
> > > > I am surprised that anyone would think that using a quotation from a relevant source would be unacceptable in any kind of discussion.
> > > >
> > > > In contrast, I asked you, directly, several times if there was any kind of proof - or even any kind of independent documentation - that the event you claimed to have witnessed actually occurred and was answered, repeatedly, by page after page of some sort of meandering monologue bearing little, if anything, on the simple question that was posed - a question which, as of this writing, you have not yet answered.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> I see I left out the PS. Examine your motives for being on the Back Alley list. Are they a virtue or a vice?
>

>
> Yeah! I could have used pwned!
>
> Modianus
>
>

> The fact that Cato is on that list just shows he is not a true
> Christian...

> My advocacy of Dumezil also caused a misperception of some of the
> fascists within Nova Roma that I was one of them. I am not.

> Politically, Marinus is my mentor.

> This reminder goes out to all Sacerdotes that they should review their activities for this year.

> But what are the descriptions of? You can't make a description of something whose observables--given the same conditions each time--constantly change, otherwise "description" becomes a meaningless term. If physics did not obey those laws, description, observation, prediction, etc would be completely impossible.

> LOL the back alley has generated more traffic per month than the ML.

> The Back alley combined with the SW Provincia and California Provincia are working to have its own Conventus in Las Vegas this Halloween weekend.

>>> I don't know if the Wiki powers that be allow me to go ahead and add a new reading list or not. <<<

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:33:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
>
> Ave Jesse;
>
> We are not discussing phenomena, which are under the control of
> Newtonian physics.
>
> We are discussing phenomena, which are outside of physical reality and
> in the realm of belief.
>
> If, as indicated by your email address, you believe in Woden, then
> acknowledging phenomena outside the physical realm should not be a
> stretch.
>
> If you do not believe, I suggest a change of email addresses.
>
> Vale - Venator, who IS Asatru, and believe he has had experience of Odin
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/
>
> <*> Your email settings:
> Individual Email | Traditional
>
> <*> To change settings online go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join
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>
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>

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: livia.plauta@...
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:44:13 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
>
> Salve Jesse,
>
> Regulus simply demonstrated that Cato, according to the tenets of his religion, must believe in telekinesis, otherwise he must be inconsistent.
>
> Regulus also gave, in a very clear set of mini philosophy lessons, a panorama of options for interpreting the world, among which there are some which do not require believing in telekinesis.
>
> It seems that not everybody in this list bothered to actually read and understand his posts before responding. I wonder why, as I have to say they were a set of some of the best laid out and easiest to follow philosophical explanations I have ever read.
>
> So far nobody has managed to disprove Regulus' statements or find faults with his logic.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> >
> >
> > Why won't anyone acknowledge the second law of thermodynamics? I don't understand why people are trying to debate a point that has been resolved summarily for hundreds of years now. Telekinesis and "miracles" like it are physically impossible, and since the physical universe obeys physical laws, they are impossible altogether. They cannot happen, regardless of subjective realities. Indeed, subjectivity is the opposite of the objectivity of the material world which is precisely where these things cannot happen, so subjective experience cannot substantiate such incredible claims. Do you guys just want to argue this point for its own sake or do you actually believe that Newtonian physics are invalid?
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > JC
> >
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
> > > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:32:07 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
> > >
> > > Ave Cato;
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Gaius Equitius Cato wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cato Stephano Venatori sal.
> > > >
> > > > Salve.
> > > >
> > > > And I would ask you the same question that I asked Sempronius Regulus: did
> > > > anyone record these tests? Is there any documentation of them anywhere? It
> > > > would, again, be interesting to see proof of something that is so outside
> > > > the "normal". This question is not an attack, it is an inquiry.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, no recordings beyond the memories of the participants. The milieu
> > > was not scientific testing, but a religious one; inquiry accepted ,-)
> > >
> > > I can not prove to you, or anyone else, the reality of my personal,
> > > subjective universe, which is why I mentioned that the anecdotes are
> > > within my personal store of truth.
> > >
> > > Could I replicate what I did as a younger, healthier man? I do not
> > > know. But I agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere that absence
> > > of evidence is not evidence of absence. One could apply that maxim to
> > > the discussion of religious figures from antiquity or anecdotes of
> > > religious ecstasy and transport.
> > >
> > > As with physical skills or intellectual ability beyond the norm,
> > > psychic abilities are likely present within a small percentage of the
> > > total population of earth.
> > >
> > > In example, when I go to the batting cages at the amusement center, I
> > > will contend against the 60 MPH hardball or slow-pitch softball
> > > machines. Against these, I get the bat on the ball pretty close to
> > > 100% of the time. I step up to faster pitches and am lucky to hit my
> > > weight. I do not possess that skill with the bat, nor the hand-eye
> > > coordination, needed to hit the fast-ball that a small group of
> > > professional athletes does.
> > >
> > > (For those unfamiliar with American baseball, the batting average [hit
> > > balls per legal "at-bat"] is expressed as a decimal part of 1: 100%
> > > would be a batting average of 1.000, success 1/3 of the time would be
> > > .333, hitting my current weight would be .225, anything over .300 in
> > > considered having a good season ,-)
> > >
> > > In another example, I rarely need an electronic calculator to perform
> > > basic mathematical equations, nor even some of the less complex
> > > algebraic functions. Try as I did for 3 semesters in college,
> > > calculus torpedoed my ambitions of becoming an electrical engineer. M
> > > Annia on the other hand, gained a Master's in Electrical Engineering
> > > because she has the ability to understand and perform higher
> > > mathematical functions.
> > >
> > > I think and believe that I do possess some small amount of talent in a
> > > non-physical, non-intellectual set of abilities. I think and believe
> > > that there are others who likewise possess those skills, to lesser or
> > > greater extent.
> > >
> > > The three make up the Gifts we have from the Holy Powers at birth:
> > > Life (the physical), Mind (the intellectual) and Will (the psychic).
> > >
> > > For some this is a sufficiency, others not, que sera, sera; no point
> > > for contention, but I do like discussion.
> > >
> > > =====================================
> > > In amicitia et fide
> > > Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> > > Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
> > > Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta mysticus
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your vacation photos on your phone!
> > http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
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A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.


C. Petronius L. Sullae s.p.d.,

> LOL the back alley has generated more traffic per month than the ML.

Quid refert? Quantitas non est qualitas.

    ATS:  Re vera, nihil refert!  Qualitas rarissime illum in indicem irrepit.  Si vocabula foeda quaeris, ibi invenies; si imagines juvenum amborum sexuum sexualitatem jactantes, ibi invenies; si jurgia, si contumelias, et in optimos homines, ibi invenies.  Est sicut domicilium adulescentium marium participum societatum litteris Graecis in nominibus utentium.  

(So what? Quantity is not quality.)
 
> The Back alley combined with the SW Provincia and California Provincia are working to have its own Conventus in Las Vegas this Halloween weekend.

Las Vegas! Nova Roma in deliciis Capuanis.
(Las Vegas! New Rome into the pleasures of Capua.)

    ATS:  Et nos veri Novi Romani Nashville ibimus...cujus caelum odiosum est sicut balneum Finnicum, sed ubi est templum Deae Athenae virginis.  

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Vale, et valete.  

  
    

> > ATS: Re vera, nihil refert! Qualitas rarissime illum in indicem irrepit.
> > Si vocabula foeda quaeris, ibi invenies; si imagines juvenum amborum sexuum
> > sexualitatem jactantes, ibi invenies; si jurgia, si contumelias, et in optimos
> > homines, ibi invenies.

> > ATS: Et nos veri Novi Romani Nashville ibimus...cujus caelum > > odiosum est
> > sicut balneum Finnicum, sed ubi est templum Deae Athenae virginis.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Jesse Corradino wrote:
>
>
> Salve,
>
> No, I do not "believe" in Woden.  I think I've mentioned to you that in the
> past I was involved with the Runegild and the Ring of Troth, and this email
> address stems from those times (1998 to be precise, when I was 18.)  But I
> still admire Odhinn and figures like him in mythology, so I don't think I
> need to change my email address at all.
>

Venator: My apology, I'd not recalled this...and I should remember my
own admonition to a young man on one of the Asatru lists that one need
not be solely devoted to Odin to have some Odinic qualities.

> It's fine if your discussing beliefs, I was just confused for a while
> thinking you meant that beliefs can happen in reality.  Naturally anything
> can happen in the realm of imagination since it is limited in scope only by
> one's imagining, but it is just as natural that the physical world we live
> in is governed by the laws of physics which are inviolate.  It is impossible
> to change to thermal energy to mechanical energy without altering the system
> somehow, so telekinesis would only be possible if after thinking really hard
> about moving an object your head is then shot out of a cannon into said
> object in order to induce its motion.  That's as far as the rules stretch
> themselves.
>
> Vale,
> JC
>
> PS: Doesn't it say right on the NR website that the religio is uniquely
> suited to modern society because it is orthopraxic and its philosophical
> aspects can be filled in by a number of different philosophies?  I'm reading
> Cicero's Nature of the Gods and I somehow get the feeling he couldn't keep
> his woden email tag either...
>

Beliefs are part of everyone's reality. I think the contention is
over whether or not supra-natural phenomena do occur, or are figments
of fancy...

I think that this is one of those discussion where we have folks who
have an objective and rational view of phenomena on one side ... that
which can not be explained by current knowledge and understanding of
physical "laws," can not, in reality, happen.

...and those who have a subjective and irrational view of phenomena on
the other (myself included, using irrational in a philosophical
sense). That which can not be explained by current knowledge and
understanding of physical "laws," can, in reality, happen.

I think and believe as I do because of the phenomena, explained and
inexplicable, which I have experienced over the years. As I wrote to
Cato, they are my set of personal truths.

I believe that we each live within our own reality, which intersects
and interacts with that of others within a framework bounded by
Natural Laws set up by Something, which is ultimately unknown and
unknowable. For most folks, the relationship with the reality of
others, while sometimes at tangents, is fully functional...others,
well, I think that's where neuroses and psychoses have some of their
origin.

I'll fall back on a motto that my college philosophy professor had
across the front of the room: "I can only Know, that which I Believe."
...and one that my 7th grade science teacher had over the door to his
classroom: "Ignorance is our most important product."

As for Cicero's writings on the "Nature of the Gods," I'll defer to
your opinion as I have only skimmed it a little.

I'm liking this discussion, in most part ,-)

In amicus - Venator

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: famila.ulleria.venii@...
> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:46:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: OT: Tele... vs Psycho..., and other thoughts.
>
> Ave Jesse;
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Jesse Corradino wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > No, I do not "believe" in Woden.  I think I've mentioned to you that in the
> > past I was involved with the Runegild and the Ring of Troth, and this email
> > address stems from those times (1998 to be precise, when I was 18.)  But I
> > still admire Odhinn and figures like him in mythology, so I don't think I
> > need to change my email address at all.
> >
>
> Venator: My apology, I'd not recalled this...and I should remember my
> own admonition to a young man on one of the Asatru lists that one need
> not be solely devoted to Odin to have some Odinic qualities.
>
> > It's fine if your discussing beliefs, I was just confused for a while
> > thinking you meant that beliefs can happen in reality.  Naturally anything
> > can happen in the realm of imagination since it is limited in scope only by
> > one's imagining, but it is just as natural that the physical world we live
> > in is governed by the laws of physics which are inviolate.  It is impossible
> > to change to thermal energy to mechanical energy without altering the system
> > somehow, so telekinesis would only be possible if after thinking really hard
> > about moving an object your head is then shot out of a cannon into said
> > object in order to induce its motion.  That's as far as the rules stretch
> > themselves.
> >
> > Vale,
> > JC
> >
> > PS: Doesn't it say right on the NR website that the religio is uniquely
> > suited to modern society because it is orthopraxic and its philosophical
> > aspects can be filled in by a number of different philosophies?  I'm reading
> > Cicero's Nature of the Gods and I somehow get the feeling he couldn't keep
> > his woden email tag either...
> >
>
> Beliefs are part of everyone's reality. I think the contention is
> over whether or not supra-natural phenomena do occur, or are figments
> of fancy...
>
> I think that this is one of those discussion where we have folks who
> have an objective and rational view of phenomena on one side ... that
> which can not be explained by current knowledge and understanding of
> physical "laws," can not, in reality, happen.
>
> ...and those who have a subjective and irrational view of phenomena on
> the other (myself included, using irrational in a philosophical
> sense). That which can not be explained by current knowledge and
> understanding of physical "laws," can, in reality, happen.
>
> I think and believe as I do because of the phenomena, explained and
> inexplicable, which I have experienced over the years. As I wrote to
> Cato, they are my set of personal truths.
>
> I believe that we each live within our own reality, which intersects
> and interacts with that of others within a framework bounded by
> Natural Laws set up by Something, which is ultimately unknown and
> unknowable. For most folks, the relationship with the reality of
> others, while sometimes at tangents, is fully functional...others,
> well, I think that's where neuroses and psychoses have some of their
> origin.
>
> I'll fall back on a motto that my college philosophy professor had
> across the front of the room: "I can only Know, that which I Believe."
> ...and one that my 7th grade science teacher had over the door to his
> classroom: "Ignorance is our most important product."
>
> As for Cicero's writings on the "Nature of the Gods," I'll defer to
> your opinion as I have only skimmed it a little.
>
> I'm liking this discussion, in most part ,-)
>
> In amicus - Venator
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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