> Catoni s.d.
>
> Care that Neptunus is not the full equivalent in Rome of Poseidon, the god of the sea ad the "shaker of the earth".
>
> He is more generally and even *first* the god of (non salted) waters: running rivers (paredra: Salacia) and calm waters (lakes, etc., paredra: Venilia). The Neptunalia have no linked in the first Republican ages, with the sea.
>
> You could also check if Neptune "command all the creatures". Our PM may have further information on this point. Neptunus rules imho on the waters, not on the "creatures" in it, though the difference may be materially tiny when your are in a troubled sea or lake. The word 'creatures' has also, nowadays, a monotheist meaning that was unknown of most of the Republican Romans. But, once translated in Latin, it wouold give probably "res", which would make this monotheist meaning disappear.
>
> Vale,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato omnibusque in foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > Can someone among our Latinists translate the following text into Latin?
> >
> > "O great Neptune, Lord of the Sea and bearer of the trident, hear Your servant. Great master of the rolling deep, You Who shake the earth with Your footsteps and cause it to tremble, protect those who travel upon Your kingdom, keeping them safe as they journey and bringing them swiftly across the perilous sea. Mighty Neptune, Whose command all the creatures of the water obey, grant your servant protection from the mouths of the monsters of the ocean, and I will offer you incense and fire."
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

>
> Salve,
> I would absolutly love and appreciate any information you could give me on the Anubs cult, he is my patron and even though not a Roman God strictly speaking we in the past opened our arms to foreighn Gods why not now?
> As for Antinous and Hadrian, I do worship them now as Gods of gay love and true devotion.
> Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
> Nero
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Nero;
> > forgive me for replying to this so late. I understand very well, it's a matter of taste; mystery cults are for some not for others. As for the Galli, hehe, our members from Gaul ask me to call them Gauls not Galli;-)
> > Anubis is interesting, I do know that there were devotees to him, called Anubiacus (Heyob, "The Cult of Isis among Women in the Greco-Roman World" ) would you like me to look into this?
> >
> > I also was thinking since Pride Week is coming up, about apotheosis in Roman cult. I'm reading "Beloved and God" about Hadrian and Antinous, and I just love this Roman and Greek concept of heroization. I was thinking of celebrating Divus Antinous and Diva Sappho, who had a Greek cult. I'd like your opinion.
> > bene vale in pacem Matris Magnae
> > Maior
> > >
> > > Salve Maior,
> > > While I respect and worship the Gods honored by the Mystery Religions they're really not for me.
> > > Unless Anubis has a mystery cult that I am unaware of then I must respectfully decline to join one however any help you need with research give me a jangle and I would be more then happy to help.
> > > I am fascinated with the cult of the Great Mother however have no desire to become Galii...Ouch!!!
> > >
> > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
> > > Gaius Iunius Nero
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > -Salve Nero;
> > > > nice news, Regulus is very interested in the mysteries, and I wrote to Gitana from Hellenion who put on Eleusinaian mysteries in Pennsylvania.
> > > > I think a project to put on mysteries for NR, maybe the next Conventus would be wonderful. Are you interested at all in the mysteries of Magna Mater? as they have to do with Dionysus and Dionysys is Regulus' interest.
> > > > optissime vale
> > > > Maior
> > > > >
> > > > > Salve,
> > > > > Hate crimes?
> > > > > While it is true that some comments were posted that aren't exactly pretty calling them hate crimes is a bit much, Even further blaming NR as a whole for what was said is horrible. Cato, did they actualy throw lions at you? Are you in the colosseum right now?
> > > > > Gods these little quarrels remind me of the ones the cliques used to get into in high school, only instead of the skaters and the jocks we have the Pagan and the christians.
> > > > > Perhaps we could turn our attention into making Rome something we can be proud of, not tearing at her like rabid dogs over some petty diffrences?
> > > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
> > > > > Roma Invicta
> > > > > RGIN
> > > > >
> > > > > GAIVS IVNIVS NERO
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Jesse Corradino <woden66@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salve Cato,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is embarassing in the extreme that Scholastica, who seemed to conduct herself with some dignity, would sully herself by penning a love letter unworthy of a highschooler to some demented old fool's self-produced panegyric. I had no idea how my Romanitas could be so enriched by knowing that Regulus does not require viagara to achieve an erection and that, moreover, Scholastica approves. Needless to say, she must have been mightily impressed by his mental and, apparently, physical prowess to join so lightly in the advocation of violence against Christians. Besides being inept, it seems Nova Roma, with the help of Regulus' stiff cock, is making a foray into hate crimes? Bravo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vale,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gaius Claudius Caecus
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > From: catoinnyc@
> > > > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:40:41 +0000
> > > > > > > Subject: Alembic and Herbalism Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Turin Exhibit -- Ancient Roman Perfume
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cato Lucillae Merullae sal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Salve!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know what it is with Regulus but he's talking himself into calumniae.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope that the ever-vigilant and totally impartial praetors are making note of the stated implication that violence against Christians - the reference to "lions" and me being a Christian are impossible not to bring together logically in a forum designed to discuss ancient Rome - is not only acceptable but laudable. At least one of the praetorial staff (Tullia Scholastica) thinks it's amusing, apparently.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is this view acceptable to our current government, that Nova Roma needs lions to deal with her Christians? I guess we'll see.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vale!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cato
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:37 AM, A. Sempronius Regulus <
> > > > > > > > asempronius.regulus@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nor unlike our poster child for why Nova Roma needs lions, Cato, I do not
> > > > > > > > > need viagra to be aroused with others or to be able to look myself in the
> > > > > > > > > mirror in the morning (maybe Cato is Christian because such things with him
> > > > > > > > > are a "divine miracle".). But then again, maybe Cato found himself when he
> > > > > > > > > came out of the closet to become Sulla's "homey"; an ex-Baptist and a Jersey
> > > > > > > > > boy that likes doing it Greek -- hmmm, -- a magico-erotic recipe for a
> > > > > > > > > double-dipping couple?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What is it with you and Cato? I find your excessive need to drag him into
> > > > > > > > any and every conversation tiring in the extreme. Your obsessive need to
> > > > > > > > denigrate him is not only lacking in dignitas but downright weird. Why do
> > > > > > > > you fear him so?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know Cato, I've never met him nor conversed with him. Obviously I
> > > > > > > > know he's a Christian and his religion is very important to him. I can
> > > > > > > > respect that, after all I follow the Roman gods and my religion is very
> > > > > > > > important to me. I have seen Cato ask questions about the religio but I have
> > > > > > > > never once seen him accord it anything but respect. He has never made fun of
> > > > > > > > either it or it's followers for their beliefs. Yet, here, the world and it's
> > > > > > > > wife seem to feel it's perfectly acceptable to poke fun at him and his
> > > > > > > > religion and insult him ad nauseum. Why are you all so totally lacking in
> > > > > > > > dignitas? Frankly I'm beginning to be ashamed to be part of Nova Roma. It's
> > > > > > > > certainly no longer the organisation I joined.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
> > > > > > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> Do you know when the Wiki is going to be ready again for edits?
>
> --- On Sun, 8/30/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Prayer to Neptune
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 8:27 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> -Salve Albuci:
> Cato would actually know that if he read the NRwiki article, before he edited it! Really I am not kidding.
>
> Thank goodness the NRwiki keeps old versions, so we can return it.I've got to ask Agricola how, as I've forgotten;
>
> or would you please return it to the September 25 version, both Iustinus and Agricola made good edits. I'd updated the existing article, with your information that Neptunus is the god of running and still waters, that he has nothing to do with earthquakes and horses...
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> > Catoni s.d.
> >
> > Care that Neptunus is not the full equivalent in Rome of Poseidon, the god of the sea ad the "shaker of the earth".
> >
> > He is more generally and even *first* the god of (non salted) waters: running rivers (paredra: Salacia) and calm waters (lakes, etc., paredra: Venilia). The Neptunalia have no linked in the first Republican ages, with the sea.
> >
> > You could also check if Neptune "command all the creatures". Our PM may have further information on this point. Neptunus rules imho on the waters, not on the "creatures" in it, though the difference may be materially tiny when your are in a troubled sea or lake. The word 'creatures' has also, nowadays, a monotheist meaning that was unknown of most of the Republican Romans. But, once translated in Latin, it wouold give probably "res", which would make this monotheist meaning disappear.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> >
> > P. Memmius Albucius
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato omnibusque in foro SPD
> > >
> > > Salvete.
> > >
> > > Can someone among our Latinists translate the following text into Latin?
> > >
> > > "O great Neptune, Lord of the Sea and bearer of the trident, hear Your servant. Great master of the rolling deep, You Who shake the earth with Your footsteps and cause it to tremble, protect those who travel upon Your kingdom, keeping them safe as they journey and bringing them swiftly across the perilous sea. Mighty Neptune, Whose command all the creatures of the water obey, grant your servant protection from the mouths of the monsters of the ocean, and I will offer you incense and fire."
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Nero;
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 8:58 AM, rikudemyx wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > No no no, there is a diffrence, true we do not choose our parents, but I was
> > not BORN into NR therefore I was not BORN into being a plebian.
> > And to top it off, I keep on hearing from everyone that while we follow many
> > ways of the ancients we are still building our own republic. New age New
> > rules.
> >
> > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
> > Nero
> >
>
> You are quite correct that none of us was born into Nova Roma, nor
> into one of the Classes. You are also correct that there are new
> rules for a new age.
>
> However, unless you were amongst the First Families of Nova Roma,
> joining as a Plebian is the only option right now, other than the
> adoption detailed by others.
>
> One can be elevated to Patrician for service to the Republic, which is
> how I became such. Gens Ulleria is an early family of Nova Roma, but
> not early enough to be of the First Families. As a kudo for my
> efforts during the 1st 5 years, Ulleria was raised to the Patrician
> Class.
>
> Here is a list of the Gentes Nova Roma from July 1998:
>
> Our Patrician Gens at that time: Aelia, Ambrosia, Antonia, Aurelia,
> Cassia, Claudia, Cordia, Cornelia, Drusia*, Equitia, Flavia,
> *Germanica*, Gladia, Hadriana, Iulia, Iunia, *Leonina*, *Luciania*,
> Maria, *Nigeria*, Octavia, *Planicolia*, *Poppaea*, Portia, Silvania,
> *Trentia*, *Titia*, Vedia and Vellia*
>
> Our Plebians: *Anncina*, *Aquila*, *Avitablia*, *Caecilia Metella*,
> *Claudia Lucentia*, *Claudia Secunda*, *Hyeania*, Labiena,
> *Libertania*, *Lupinia*, *Magius*, *Messalina*, *Olivaria*,
> *Pulchria*, *Septimia*, Sergia, *Servia*, *Sestia*, Tullia, Ulleria,
> Valeria and *Victoria*.
>
> If I am reading Album Civum entries correctly the astrerixed names are
> no longer extant as such, though are used as name elements.
>
> =====================================
> In amicitia et fide
> Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
>
> (sites subject to occassional updates)
> http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> http://confoederatio-romana.webs.com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ ...> wrote:
>
> Ave Julia,
>
> > Oh and and one more question si placet, what is the difference between Ave and Salve? - Its useage in particular. On observation I notice that those who use it over Salve more often have little to no Latin (except of course for the French;). I have used it once or twice myself but with those I consider amicae.
>
> Before I came to Nova Roma, I never said Salve to say Hello! but always Ave! Ave is the "Ave Caesar, morituri te salutant", or the prayer and holly song "Ave Maria" or the sad poem of Catullus to his dead brother "Ave et vale"... I never said "Salve!". I know that Salve is also a greeting word, it is very used in Plautus and Terence plays, but I always used "Ave". Because I prefer "Ave" to "Salve", as some prefer "hello!" to "hi!", I suppose...
>
> Cura ut valeas.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Albucio sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> OK, I get the "creatures" idea, that in Latin making it "res" would mean simply "things" rather than *created* things.
>
> Now, the idea that He commands the things of the sea (as Neptune Oceanus) is from such stories as His winning over Salacia (now His wife - Servicius, on Virgil, Aen, x. 76, "Sane hane Veniliam quidam Salaciam accipiunt, Neptuni uxorem."); when He was trying to convince Her to marry Him, He sent a dolphin to look for Her and persuade Her to come back to Him. His chariot is pulled by dolphins and sea-horses, which implies a controlling force; also Ovid, in the Fasti (Book V), describes Neptune as Iuppiter's "brother who rules the deep ocean".
>
> Was He not worshipped as "Neptune Equester", the god of horse-racing? He had a temple near the race tracks in Rome, the Circus Flaminius, as well as one in the Campus Martius.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

>
> Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> Albucius, this brings up a question I've always wondered about; please bear in mind that I ask simply because I'm interested, not as an argument. It is constantly said that Neptune is not identical to Poseidon. How have you come to that conclusion? Are there primary sources who indicate that the Romans did *not* think they were the same Being? What do you base this idea on?
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Catoni s.d.
>
> Now, the idea that He commands the things of the sea (as Neptune Oceanus) is from such stories as His winning over Salacia (now His wife - Servicius, on Virgil, Aen, x. 76, "Sane hane Veniliam quidam Salaciam accipiunt, Neptuni uxorem."); when He was trying to convince Her to marry Him, He sent a dolphin to look for Her and persuade Her to come back to Him. His chariot is pulled by dolphins and sea-horses, which implies a controlling force; also Ovid, in the Fasti (Book V), describes Neptune as Iuppiter's "brother who rules the deep
> ocean".
>
> Very interesting source. The fact that it is a Vergilius' one well shows that this reading was a late one (Augustus time). The interpretation that Virgil gives on the relation btw Neptunus and Salacia-Venilia, at this time mixed, is also full of meanings. The dolphin can, like some fishes, swim out of the seas and upstream in the rivers (link with the first meaning).
>
> The fact that he has a chariot pulled by dolphins and sea-horses does not mean imho that Neptunus controls *all* animals, etc., but at least the ones that pull its chariot, like Apollo with his horses. Let us note that the dolphin is a mammifer ; the fact the chariot is also pulled by (sea-)horses is also a debt to the previous rule that Neptunus has had on the earth waters.
>
> Here, the relation with the horses may well be a reference to the flow, of the river or of the sea (let us think of the waters "running like a horse" or "at horse speed" - we still say that, in France, for centuries, in the bay of Mont St Michel, as well the Chinese people have been speaking for milleniums of the "golden dragon" for the rolling up fast tide of river Qiangtang - but also to ancient or mythological animals who live or were supposed to live (hippo-potamos, etc.).
>
> Vale,
>
>
> Albucius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Albucio sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > OK, I get the "creatures" idea, that in Latin making it "res" would mean simply "things" rather than *created* things.
> >
> > Now, the idea that He commands the things of the sea (as Neptune Oceanus) is from such stories as His winning over Salacia (now His wife - Servicius, on Virgil, Aen, x. 76, "Sane hane Veniliam quidam Salaciam accipiunt, Neptuni uxorem."); when He was trying to convince Her to marry Him, He sent a dolphin to look for Her and persuade Her to come back to Him. His chariot is pulled by dolphins and sea-horses, which implies a controlling force; also Ovid, in the Fasti (Book V), describes Neptune as Iuppiter's "brother who rules the deep ocean".
> >
> > Was He not worshipped as "Neptune Equester", the god of horse-racing? He had a temple near the race tracks in Rome, the Circus Flaminius, as well as one in the Campus Martius.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> -If you actually look at the botton of the NRwiki article on Neptunus, you find the latest book on Neptunus with all the material..
> >
> > Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete!
> >
> > Albucius, this brings up a question I've always wondered about; please bear in mind that I ask simply because I'm interested, not as an argument. It is constantly said that Neptune is not identical to Poseidon. How have you come to that conclusion? Are there primary sources who indicate that the Romans did *not* think they were the same Being? What do you base this idea on?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "l_cornelius_sulla" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> And, NR used to have thousands of people in the organization. NR has been in a constant state of decline for YEARS now.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rikudemyx" <rikudemyx@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > The positions remain empty becasuse their is no one to fill them, so either NR starts sending centurians to our doors and drafting priests or someone stops complaining about it. It's not breaking the law it's temporarily holding it until enough people are able to be priests.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato Aureliane sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > Very well.
> > >
> > > Start with the Constitutional language. The language sets certain requirements on what we can consider to be a legitimate College of Pontiffs ("CP"). What does the Constitution say?
> > >
> > > "The collegium pontificum (college of pontiffs) shall be the highest of the priestly collegia. It shall consist of the Pontifex Maximus, fourteen Pontifices, twelve flamines, six Sacerdotes Vestales, and the Rex and Regina Sacrorum. The collegium pontificum shall appoint its own members. The collegium pontificum shall have the following honors, powers, and responsibilities:" (Const. NR VI.B.1)
> > >
> > > Since the Constitution is above *all* other law, its language is definitive. So in order to comply with these requirements, the CP must contain the elements as defined by the Constitution ("It *shall* consist of..." - my emphasis). If it does not have all these elements, it does not fulfill the Constitutional requirements for a CP.
> > >
> > > If the current group of pontifices, flamens, etc., do not equal the requirements of the membership of the CP set by the Constitution, they do not compose a CP. If a CP does not exist, it cannot perform the functions of the CP, which renders the third line (regarding appointments) null.
> > >
> > > If the CP does not exist (yet), how do we get over the Constitutional language that allows only the CP to appoint members to itself? There are two ways: appoint a dictator to do so, or enable the consuls to do so by a senatus consultum ultimum (SCU); an SCU temporarily overrides the authority of the Constitution for a *specific purpose* only:
> > >
> > > "When in effect, this decree [the senatus consultum ultimam] will supersede all other governmental bodies and authorities (with the exception of the dictator) and allow the Senate to invest the consuls with absolute powers to deal with a specific situation, subject only to their collegial veto and review by the Senate." - (Const. NR V.E)
> > >
> > > In this case, the Senate would grant the consuls the authority to fill the vacancies so that a full CP does exist, and therefore fulfills the requirements of the Constitution.
> > >
> > > Nowhere do I suggest that anybody "pack" the CP with anybody else. Nowhere do I assume any control over the situation by anyone other than the Senate and the consuls. It is, in fact, with an almost foolhardy belief on my part that the consuls - despite how I feel about almost everything they have done for months - want what is best for the Respublica that I suggest this.
> > >
> > > The Senate uses its Constitutional authority to give power to the consuls, the consuls use their own intelligence and the input of the current pontiffs, flamens, etc., to make the right choices. the Senate reviews their choices, and we have a Constitutionally-created, fully authoritative College of Pontiffs.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > P.S. - regarding her, perhaps you are content with a pathological liar speaking on behalf of your private cultus and as the voice of all ancient Romans. I would not be. GEC
> > >
> >
>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:10 PM, rikudemyx wrote:
>
> Salve,
> What services does the Repulic require for elevation of ones family to
> becoming Patrician?
> Thank you for your help sir.
>
> Di Vos incolumes Custodiant
> Nero
>

I am glad to be of assistance and welcome amplification and correction
of what I am about to write from our magistrates and others of
experience.

Primus: I think my attitude is one factor. I have tried (and
sometimes failed) to be a positive voice here in Nova Roma. I try my
best to address ideas, especially when they are ones with which I
disagree. I have also tried very hard to keep a helpful and hopeful
outlook on what we are trying to create here. I also will try to not
post if I do not have something valid to add to a discussion or
argument.

Secundus: I served as Quaestor (thrice), as a Provincial Legate,
founded and head the Sodalis for cooks and brewers, offered help as an
extra hand...have continued to serve as Custos and Diribitor (I've
held elective office or appointed office in 8 of 11 years, thus far).
In at least half of the elections for which I became a candidate, it
was to fill an office for which we had too few, or no, candidates. I
have this sense of duty towards Nova Roma, almost as if I too were a
Pater Patria.

Tertius: well, I've stuck it out and have never threatened to resign
over things with which I disagree. However egregious I think things
go sometimes in the direction of error, there is nothing, which can
not be fixed in my view. I have, however, taken sabbaticals both
announced and sudden.

Quartus: I have some note as a poet and essayist; offering what I hope
are cogent observations in verse and prose. Much of what I write has
been well received by a wide variety of Cives.

Quintus: I have been humbled by the number of times that so many
different men and women here in Nova Roma have referred to me, a
simple Northern Heathen, as one of the best of Romans. I only try to
follow my worldview of doing that which is right for one's community.
Plus, I look to Marcus Aurelius as an inspiration.

Finis: While I am disappointed sometimes...[excision of not so
dignified commentary, which I'm going to try and do more often]...I
still have a great deal of hope that Nova Roma can become an
organization, which does not engender disdain amongst the academic and
re-enactment communities.

I am also, now, a Senator, which I look at as a further way to try
and help Nova Roma.

I did accept an appointment as Aedilican Scribe this year, but have
not performed even close to expectation. I shall say only that my
personal goals greatly exceeded my reserves of time and energy (both
physical and emotional) due to a bout of illness from mid February to
early June. As or that, it has not been a good past 4 years.

So, Nero, my advice to you is: look at Nova Roma, decide what your
vision of our mutual endeavor is, look again, see how your vision fits
into the whole, work to achieve your goal alongside the other folk
within our community.

Not every Nobleman is a noble man, nor is every noble man a Nobleman.

Do your best, day by day. Strive to improve yourself. Read widely,
read well, think...seek to build.

Thank you for joining us and may we work together a long time.

In closing, Brevitas is not one of the Virtues to which I aspire. ,-)

Valete - Venator

A room without a book is like a body without a soul. -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> Albucius, this brings up a question I've always wondered about; please bear in mind that I ask simply because I'm interested, not as an argument. It is constantly said that Neptune is not identical to Poseidon. How have you come to that conclusion? Are there primary sources who indicate that the Romans did *not* think they were the same Being? What do you base this idea on?
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

>
> Cato Regulo sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Regulus, if you think that I am somehow embarrassed that I was born in the great State of New Jersey you are incredibly, seriously mistaken.
>
> If you think I am somehow embarrassed to be the employee of an hotel, you are incredibly, seriously mistaken.
>
> It shows an extraordinarily shallowness and mean-spiritedness of personality that you think - and write - these things. When I finished reading this latest of your personal diatribes I thought, "wow, what a really nasty little man."
>
> I have nothing more to say to you.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

> Surprising to you, hotel boy, not to others.

> PS, that is, _you_ will be surprised if _you_ are honest. So, hotel
> boy, you read Greek?, Latin? You have a mastery of what those
> languages meant in their historical context? Your academic training
> allows you to visit original physical artifacts under lock and key -
> whether cataloged but not published about yet or uncataloged? Your
> academic training allows you grants and governments permission to
> dig for new artifacts? Your academic training requires you to read
> the modern research langauges of English, German, and French? Hotel
> boy, you need to overcome your over-preening jersey inferiority
> complex.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Catoni omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> >>> As some of you know, Sulla is in the hospital right now. I ask that, no matter what differences anyone may have with him, all quirites offer their prayers and supplications that all goes well for him.<<<
>
> You know that I was rude with him and to insult him and his buddies I had a 72 hours moderation period. I do not like Sulla's public conduct but I am not insensible.
>
> And here in france we know that US medical protection is only based on money, you are rich you can be saved, you are poor you can die. And the Obama proposition to have a medical protection equivalent to the French one, is horrible for you and would has a touch of communism. Such the minds are troubled by the propaganda of the salf made man hero.
>
> So as French I know the chance to have with our public taxes a very good medical protection for everybody, same for poors and riches, with high quality and I pray to the return of Sulla incolumis.
>
> I am not Pontiff, only flamen of Portune. So I pray my god to obtain his intercessio towards Apollo Medicus, Hygia and Salus.
>
> "Portune pater, te precor quaeso obtestor, uti tu Lucium Cornelium Sullam, praetorium censorium consularem senatorem, lictoremque, qui nunc aegrotat, de domo decubat, in valetudinario decumbit, intercessu tuo, Apollonis Medici, Hygiae Salutisque propitium auxilium obtineas uti L. Cornelium Sullam, praetorium censorium consularem senatorem, lictoremque bene atque feliciter in Novam Romam sanum incolumem reducem faciant, ast tu ea ita facsis, tunc tibi ture libo vinoque vovi esse futurum."
>
> Valete et Sulla inter nos incolumis redeat.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Flamen Portunalis
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Lentulus Iuliae et Petronio et omnibus s. d.
>
>
> "Ave" (and "avete" in plural) is a more respectful salutation, so it is not entirely a synomnym of "salve"/"salvete".
>
> The verb "avere" or means "to wish". "Ave" is an imperative mood of the verb, so it means "Wish anything from me, I'll do". It is understandable why soldiers or gladiators saluted the emperors or other commander with "ave".
>
> So you can salute people of highest rank or whom you extremely admire with "ave"/"avete".
>
> Good to know that its elder form was "Have"/"havete", with an initial 'h'. Many write it in this elder form.
>
> So:
>
> Salve-salvete = normal greeting
> (H)ave-(h)avete = salutation to a superior or admired person
>
>
> VALETE!
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Dom 30/8/09, luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...> ha scritto:
>
>
> Da: luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Dative - Put Your Name In Dative!
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Domenica 30 agosto 2009, 00:25
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Ave Dexter amici,
>
> This is what I thought, the "hello" vs "hi." But the classic quotes suggested a more formal use - in my mind anyway. So it is not such a big deal? I kind of like "ave" it is like a evocation;)
>
> Tibi gratias valeque
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave Julia,
> >
> > > Oh and and one more question si placet, what is the difference between Ave and Salve? - Its useage in particular. On observation I notice that those who use it over Salve more often have little to no Latin (except of course for the French;). I have used it once or twice myself but with those I consider amicae.
> >
> > Before I came to Nova Roma, I never said Salve to say Hello! but always Ave! Ave is the "Ave Caesar, morituri te salutant", or the prayer and holly song "Ave Maria" or the sad poem of Catullus to his dead brother "Ave et vale"... I never said "Salve!". I know that Salve is also a greeting word, it is very used in Plautus and Terence plays, but I always used "Ave". Because I prefer "Ave" to "Salve", as some prefer "hello!" to "hi!", I suppose...
> >
> > Cura ut valeas.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>

> > ATS: Working in peace and quiet...velim felem conducere ut murem capiat

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Salve, Julia, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis!
> >
> >
> > Salve Magistra,
> >
> > But one does not necessarily need to be Patrician to be "Noble." I saw the few
> > sentences in the NR Wiki he referred to and I see how he can come to that
> > conclusion.
> >
> > ATS: The quick answer, as Marinus pointed out, is no, but methinks that
> > there was a greater likelihood thereof among the patricians.
> >
> >
> > Similar to how someone thought that I was Patrician because of my Roman name.
> >
> > ATS: That stems from what I said earlier, for the older families in the
> > gens Julia of NR are patrician. Someone may have been unaware that the newer
> > families may be, and probably are, plebeian. In the earlier days of NR, every
> > gens was wholly patrician or wholly plebeian, was headed by a single pater or
> > mater familias, and worshiped certain deities. As I understand it, this is
> > completely ahistoric. In antiquity, some families within a gens were
> > patrician, and some were plebeian, and the cultús (plural, fourth declension)
> > were not uniform throughout an entire gens. We passed legislation to correct
> > this situation, legislation bemoaned by certain parties for reasons which
> > should not escape you. Historicity is fine when it suits, but when it
> > doesn¹t...oimoi, iw talas/talaina...
> >
> > Vale optime,
> > Julia
> > P.S. What are you doing awake at this ungodsly hour?*teases*

>>> "Ave" (and "avete" in plural) is a more respectful salutation, so it is not entirely a synomnym of "salve"/"salvete".
>
> The verb "avere" or means "to wish". "Ave" is an imperative mood of the verb, so it means "Wish anything from me, I'll do". It is understandable why soldiers or gladiators saluted the emperors or other commander with "ave".<<<

> Good to know that its elder form was "Have"/"havete", with an initial 'h'. Many write it in this elder form.

> So:
>
> Salve-salvete = normal greeting

> (H)ave-(h)avete = salutation to a superior or admired person.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

...
> Are you sure of it? Because the etymologists and the Gaffiot think that "Ave" came from the semitic salutation (Semitic = Punic = Carthago) "avo". You have this semitic salutation in Plautus. The relation between "Ave, Aveto, Avete" with the verb avere was an analogism not an etymologic relation.
>
> > Good to know that its elder form was "Have"/"havete", with an initial 'h'. Many write it in this elder form.
>
> Yes, I write it sometimes like that.

The aspiration is because of the Semitic origins of the word which begins with a guttural, Phoenician Heth-Waw-Aleph -> Punic Heth-Waw-Yod (Ug. Heth-Waw-Yod and Hb. Heth-Yod-Heh); the root means "to live". The word "avete" is simply a Latinized construction with a Latin pl. suffix appended to the Semitic root. The fact that "avo" (-> ave) is a foreign word is made clear in Plautus, "Poenulus" 994 and 998 where Hanno uses it as a greeting and Milphio translates it as "salutat".

Valete,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Nero;
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:10 PM, rikudemyx wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> > What services does the Repulic require for elevation of ones family to
> > becoming Patrician?
> > Thank you for your help sir.
> >
> > Di Vos incolumes Custodiant
> > Nero
> >
>
> I am glad to be of assistance and welcome amplification and correction
> of what I am about to write from our magistrates and others of
> experience.
>
> Primus: I think my attitude is one factor. I have tried (and
> sometimes failed) to be a positive voice here in Nova Roma. I try my
> best to address ideas, especially when they are ones with which I
> disagree. I have also tried very hard to keep a helpful and hopeful
> outlook on what we are trying to create here. I also will try to not
> post if I do not have something valid to add to a discussion or
> argument.
>
> Secundus: I served as Quaestor (thrice), as a Provincial Legate,
> founded and head the Sodalis for cooks and brewers, offered help as an
> extra hand...have continued to serve as Custos and Diribitor (I've
> held elective office or appointed office in 8 of 11 years, thus far).
> In at least half of the elections for which I became a candidate, it
> was to fill an office for which we had too few, or no, candidates. I
> have this sense of duty towards Nova Roma, almost as if I too were a
> Pater Patria.
>
> Tertius: well, I've stuck it out and have never threatened to resign
> over things with which I disagree. However egregious I think things
> go sometimes in the direction of error, there is nothing, which can
> not be fixed in my view. I have, however, taken sabbaticals both
> announced and sudden.
>
> Quartus: I have some note as a poet and essayist; offering what I hope
> are cogent observations in verse and prose. Much of what I write has
> been well received by a wide variety of Cives.
>
> Quintus: I have been humbled by the number of times that so many
> different men and women here in Nova Roma have referred to me, a
> simple Northern Heathen, as one of the best of Romans. I only try to
> follow my worldview of doing that which is right for one's community.
> Plus, I look to Marcus Aurelius as an inspiration.
>
> Finis: While I am disappointed sometimes...[excision of not so
> dignified commentary, which I'm going to try and do more often]...I
> still have a great deal of hope that Nova Roma can become an
> organization, which does not engender disdain amongst the academic and
> re-enactment communities.
>
> I am also, now, a Senator, which I look at as a further way to try
> and help Nova Roma.
>
> I did accept an appointment as Aedilican Scribe this year, but have
> not performed even close to expectation. I shall say only that my
> personal goals greatly exceeded my reserves of time and energy (both
> physical and emotional) due to a bout of illness from mid February to
> early June. As or that, it has not been a good past 4 years.
>
> So, Nero, my advice to you is: look at Nova Roma, decide what your
> vision of our mutual endeavor is, look again, see how your vision fits
> into the whole, work to achieve your goal alongside the other folk
> within our community.
>
> Not every Nobleman is a noble man, nor is every noble man a Nobleman.
>
> Do your best, day by day. Strive to improve yourself. Read widely,
> read well, think...seek to build.
>
> Thank you for joining us and may we work together a long time.
>
> In closing, Brevitas is not one of the Virtues to which I aspire. ,-)
>
> Valete - Venator
>
> A room without a book is like a body without a soul. -- Marcus Tullius Cicero
>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

What's more, it disturbs and annoys many citizens who are not at all interested in the dislike between you and him, and this is our Forum, the people's Forum about Rome and Nova Roma.

I totally agree with you in this. I'm not interested in personalities but I do find it deeply disturbing when ANY citizen can come on and ask for help in translating something inti Latin and immediately be ridicules for it as if Nova Roma has some unwritten standard of what it is permissible to translate into Latin. And then for someone to ask a question and be ridiculed, told that he should keep quiet because other people are more scholarly and then have his place of birth and employment insulted, is absolutely horrific.

It's this kind of behaviour that puts people off posting and indeed puts people off wanting to be part of Nova Roma altogether. If people really feel the need to insult and ridicule each other, could they please do it off list?

Flavia Lucilla Merula

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:47 AM, A. Sempronius Regulus <asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:

Salvete omnes,    those of us who are professional scholars would consider fellow Ph.Ds. I've been impressed with several such in Nova Roma.

So if I don't have a PhD, am I not allowed to put my views forward? Perhaps there should be something on the homepage explaining how restrictive NR is.

  What is objectionable is one, Cato,  threatens to clean out the college of pontiffs and start over,

Could you please show me where Cato has threatened this as I certainly can't find it on any list I'm on.
 

Flavia Lucilla Merula

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:47 AM, A. Sempronius Regulus <
> asempronius.regulus@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > those of us who are professional scholars would consider fellow Ph.Ds.
> > I've been impressed with several such in Nova Roma.
> >
>
> So if I don't have a PhD, am I not allowed to put my views forward? Perhaps
> there should be something on the homepage explaining how restrictive NR is.
>
> >
> > What is objectionable is one, Cato, threatens to clean out the college of
> > pontiffs and start over,
> >
>
> Could you please show me where Cato has threatened this as I certainly can't
> find it on any list I'm on.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:03 PM, marcushoratius <MHoratius@...> wrote:

Salva sis Lucilla Merula

You are not subscribed to the Senate.  He did not propose to clean out the current Collegium Pontificum.  He opposed the measure passed in the Comitia Centuriata when it came up for ratification, saying that the word "shall" requires all offices be filled.  If not filled, according to Cato, then there is not a constitutionally established Collegium Pontificum, therefore the one we have now is illegitimate.

Thank you for your reply. no, I am not part of the Senate.  I am obviously aware of Cato's interpretation of the law and of the opposing interpretations that have been put forward. I'm not getting involved in that. I'm not convinced he wanted to attack the institutions of the Religio but I'm not a mind reader :-)

I've noticed lately a lot of arguments over interpretations and specific meanings of words, mostly getting quite heated. I'm aware that macronationally citizens of the USA have a written constitution which can be referred to in arguments. Here, in the UK, we've never had that. Laws are written as occasion demands and, if there is a legal quibble over the meaning of certain words, then the courts decide the meaning. It can be thrashed through right up to the House of Lords and at the end of the day, whether you agree with them or not, you're stuck with it.

Does Nova Roma not have something similar. Some appointed body that could thrash out meanings in different circumstances and then we all live with it and move on. i appreciate this may not be very Roman but unless we can stop quibbling over the meaning of every word, we're never going to be able to move on and 'do' anything Roman

Flavia Lucilla Merula

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus Novis Romanis s. d.
>
>
> You just realize one day: there is no Romanity without the other Roman, and there is no Nova Roma without your fellow Nova Roman. He or she is your other side, your dark side or your lighter side.
>
> To be complete means to be together, inside in your psyche and outside with other people, here with the other Nova Romans.
>
> You are worthless in Nova Roma if you can't "be together" with Nova Romans.
>
> We are here to find our friends, not to find enemies.
>
> We are here to find our virtues, not to find others's faults.
>
> We are here to add something to Nova Roma, not to ask something from Her.
>
> We are here to MAKE NOVA ROMA GLORIOUS, and not to criticize, not to destruct, not to strangulate Her.
>
> Make Nova Roma glorious, through finding your friends in your supposed enemies, through finding your virtues when others are in fault, through adding your best to our community, instead of expecting it from others, and by BEING PROUD OF NOVA ROMA, because it's our work, it is our child, Nova Roma is us - not by looking at its mistakes and weaknesses.
>
> If you like what I am saying and you agree with it, please pray with me this short prayer:
>
> "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful! Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make Nova Roma a hapy community so that we can adore you before your altars with incense!"
>
>
>
> CURATE, UTI VALEATIS!
>
> CN. LENTULUS
>

>
> Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Livia Plauta, creating a Constitutionally-valid College of Pontiffs is a slightly larger concern than your East German policeman. And that's not even dealing with the fact that a law is valid *even if no-one is around to witness it in action*.
>
> You don't have to explain to me the problems with the Constitution; I've been talking about it for three or four years now.
>
> I know exactly what the College of Pontiffs does (it's in the Constitution) and I know what is necessary to make it valid (that's in the Constitution, too).
>
> It is important to me because it is just one more in a long line of convenience-based decisions about our law.
>
> It is sad that everyone who has reacted regarding appointments immediately assumes that the only people out there are incompetent and unwilling to serve in priestly offices - or that the consuls would be "forced" to appoint the unwilling or the incompetent.
>
> If the religio is in such a miserable state in the Respublica, that would concern me the most.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

>
> Vale optime et vade in pace Deorum
>
> M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
>
> Pontifex Maximus
> Magister Collegii Augurum

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Piscino Lucillae Merullae omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Salvete.
>
> Piscinus, you were absolutely correct up until this:
>
> "But as it is, Cato's proposal is unworkable and unacceptable. His proposal is nothing less than an attack on the institutions of the religio Romana, denying the legitimacy of our current Collegia and proposing instead to fill them with new people without regard to their qualifications or acceptance by the cultures Deorum."
>
> My proposal is certainly workable, as I have quite clearly shown, and is in accordance with the Constitution of the Respublica.
>
> Why must a desire to see the law obeyed as an "attack"? Because you disagree with it? I do not consider anyone who disagrees with me as attacking me, they simply disagree, and I ask them to back up their disagreement with some sort of rationale; you have not, thus far, explained how my interpretation of these events is incorrect under the law.
>
> And why must you insist that the consuls are only capable of appointing - *after* being reviewed by the Senate - unqualified and unacceptable persons to fill the vacancies?
>
> The proposal does not bring the religio to a grinding halt: augurs can still do their auguries, flamens can still act, etc.; it simply looks to ensure that we are obeying the Constitutional language which describes the necessary components of a full College of Pontiffs.
>
> Will the religio collapse if we submit ourselves to obedience to the law and work to fill these vacancies? No. Will it be inconvenient to have to wait until the vacancies are filled? Maybe, a little. Is it not worth it to be absolutely sure that we are obeying the law rather than glossing over bits that are inconvenient or time-consuming? I think so.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
> >
> > Vale optime et vade in pace Deorum
> >
> > M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
> >
> > Pontifex Maximus
> > Magister Collegii Augurum
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rikudemyx" <rikudemyx@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
> I am not here to bash your running for Consul I have a question though if I may?
> You write: Will it be inconvenient to have to wait until the vacancies are filled?
> I must ask, wait for what?
> Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
> Nero
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Piscino Lucillae Merullae omnibusque in foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete.
> >
> > Piscinus, you were absolutely correct up until this:
> >
> > "But as it is, Cato's proposal is unworkable and unacceptable. His proposal is nothing less than an attack on the institutions of the religio Romana, denying the legitimacy of our current Collegia and proposing instead to fill them with new people without regard to their qualifications or acceptance by the cultures Deorum."
> >
> > My proposal is certainly workable, as I have quite clearly shown, and is in accordance with the Constitution of the Respublica.
> >
> > Why must a desire to see the law obeyed as an "attack"? Because you disagree with it? I do not consider anyone who disagrees with me as attacking me, they simply disagree, and I ask them to back up their disagreement with some sort of rationale; you have not, thus far, explained how my interpretation of these events is incorrect under the law.
> >
> > And why must you insist that the consuls are only capable of appointing - *after* being reviewed by the Senate - unqualified and unacceptable persons to fill the vacancies?
> >
> > The proposal does not bring the religio to a grinding halt: augurs can still do their auguries, flamens can still act, etc.; it simply looks to ensure that we are obeying the Constitutional language which describes the necessary components of a full College of Pontiffs.
> >
> > Will the religio collapse if we submit ourselves to obedience to the law and work to fill these vacancies? No. Will it be inconvenient to have to wait until the vacancies are filled? Maybe, a little. Is it not worth it to be absolutely sure that we are obeying the law rather than glossing over bits that are inconvenient or time-consuming? I think so.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Vale optime et vade in pace Deorum
> > >
> > > M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
> > >
> > > Pontifex Maximus
> > > Magister Collegii Augurum
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
>
> Fl. Galerius Aurelianus Pontifex s.p.d.
>
>
>
> In the surviving fragments of the Roman calendars, the NEPTUNALIA was always written in capital letters which usually is interpreted to mean that it was one of the oldest fasti.? Valgaard in his book THE FLAMEN mentions that there may have originally been a flamen Neptunus as well as a flamen Saturnalis since both of these fasti were very ancient.? Also, none of the acts associated with how Romans celebrated the Neptunalia have any connection to the sea, horses, or earthquakes.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Roberta De Fabritiis

To: INTERNET 2

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:24 PM

Subject: Save the date: Un nuovo mondo è possibile

Save the date

Mercoledì 2 Settembre  2009 dalle ore 15.30  alle 20.30,
A Roma, presso lÂ’Auditorium Seraphicum.

Un incontro con esponenti di diverse culture e percorsi spirituali,
provenienti da tutto il mondo:

Sri Tathata grande saggio indiano e maestro della tradizione del Sanathana Dharma;

Padre Ernesto Piacentini, teologo francescano che da anni si adopera per il diaologo interreligioso;

Il Venerabile Ghesce Thueten Dargye maestro residente dellÂ’Istituto Samantabhadra di Roma;

Rabbi Barbara Aiello esponente dellÂ’ebraismo progressista, unica donna rabbina in Italia;

Sheikh Burhanuddin maestro della tradizione Sufi, dell‘ordine Naqshbandi, tra i più autorevoli e antichi.

Moderatrice: Carlotta Mismetti Capua (giornalista)

Musiche di Oscar Bonelli.

Con la partecipazione della soprano Letizia Calandra.


L’incontro è gratuito e aperto a tutti

 





__________ Informazioni da ESET NOD32 Antivirus, versione del database delle firme digitali 4310 (20090805) __________

Il messaggio è stato controllato da ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

www.nod32.it

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Lentulus Petronio et Gualtero s. p.
>  
> Thank you for the etymology information - I'll check it. It was obvious to me that "ave" comes from "avere" that I've never ever thought about looking for it in an etymological dictionary.
>  
> I will check it because I still have a little suspicion. It seems unlikely to me that the Latin ave/avete which is a verb in imperative came from the Punic salutation "avo"...
>  
> Anyway, Julia, what I told you about the functions of "salve" and "ave" stands nontheless. If the connection between "avere" and "ave" is just analogism, and it is really from "avo", the connections still stands, because such kind of artificial connections between words DO influence meaning and usage.
>  
> I go to search about "avo".
>  
> AVETE ATQUE VALETE!
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
> --- Lun 31/8/09, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...> ha scritto:
>
>
> Da: gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ave vs. Salve
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Lunedì 31 agosto 2009, 08:06
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ ...> wrote:
>
> ...
> > Are you sure of it? Because the etymologists and the Gaffiot think that "Ave" came from the semitic salutation (Semitic = Punic = Carthago) "avo". You have this semitic salutation in Plautus. The relation between "Ave, Aveto, Avete" with the verb avere was an analogism not an etymologic relation.
> >
> > > Good to know that its elder form was "Have"/"havete" , with an initial 'h'. Many write it in this elder form.
> >
> > Yes, I write it sometimes like that.
>
> The aspiration is because of the Semitic origins of the word which begins with a guttural, Phoenician Heth-Waw-Aleph -> Punic Heth-Waw-Yod (Ug. Heth-Waw-Yod and Hb. Heth-Yod-Heh) ; the root means "to live". The word "avete" is simply a Latinized construction with a Latin pl. suffix appended to the Semitic root. The fact that "avo" (-> ave) is a foreign word is made clear in Plautus, "Poenulus" 994 and 998 where Hanno uses it as a greeting and Milphio translates it as "salutat".
>
> Valete,
>
> Gualterus
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful!
> Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual
> fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow
> citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow
> Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect
> anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make
> Nova Roma a happy community so that we can adore you before your altars with
> incense!"
>
> Cura ut valeas,
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus Novis Romanis s. d.
> >
> >
> > You just realize one day: there is no Romanity without the other Roman, and there is no Nova Roma without your fellow Nova Roman. He or she is your other side, your dark side or your lighter side.
> >
> > To be complete means to be together, inside in your psyche and outside with other people, here with the other Nova Romans.
> >
> > You are worthless in Nova Roma if you can't "be together" with Nova Romans.
> >
> > We are here to find our friends, not to find enemies.
> >
> > We are here to find our virtues, not to find others's faults.
> >
> > We are here to add something to Nova Roma, not to ask something from Her.
> >
> > We are here to MAKE NOVA ROMA GLORIOUS, and not to criticize, not to destruct, not to strangulate Her.
> >
> > Make Nova Roma glorious, through finding your friends in your supposed enemies, through finding your virtues when others are in fault, through adding your best to our community, instead of expecting it from others, and by BEING PROUD OF NOVA ROMA, because it's our work, it is our child, Nova Roma is us - not by looking at its mistakes and weaknesses.
> >
> > If you like what I am saying and you agree with it, please pray with me this short prayer:
> >
> > "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful! Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make Nova Roma a hapy community so that we can adore you before your altars with incense!"
> >
> >
> >
> > CURATE, UTI VALEATIS!
> >
> > CN. LENTULUS
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
>
> Aurelianus Cato sal.
>
>
>
> I have provided you with two arguments, one based on grammar and one based on the intend of the authors of the NR Constitution, but you have rejected both of them due to your inflexible opinion of how the word "shall" is defined.? I will (modal verb based upon the Latin 'velle') not bother bringing forth any further arguments, Senator Polyphemos, since you lack both perception and limited vision.
>
>
>
> Now be so good as to stop wasting our time with further pointless discussion.? You have your opinion and the rest of Nova Roma knows what "shall" means in respect to the NR Constitution.? I hope that you continue to give all due honor to Mefitis and Sterquilinus for the gifts they have bestowed upon you.
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gequitiuscato <catoinnyc@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:51 pm
> Subject: Cato being Consul? Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Neptune and Poseidon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato Aureliane sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> What would be more interesting is a logical rebuttal of my argument, based on the law, since "no-one agrees with you so you must be wrong" doesn't really quite cut it.
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>

>
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, as I have stated, but your opinion does not carry any force except that of your patrons, especially Sterquilinus.? I hope that your opinion will keep you warm and happy when you are deprived of salt and fire.
>
>
>
> Aurelianus
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gequitiuscato <catoinnyc@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:47 pm
> Subject: Cato being Consul? Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Neptune and Poseidon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato Aureliane sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Your claims of "intent" are not useful, since the intent *does not matter*. What matters is what is written. You may joke about it, but it is the legal standard.
>
> And once again, legally "shall" is used to denote a condition precedent. The existence of a condition precedent means that a person, action, or other thing is required to comply with a stated condition as a prerequisite to having full legitimacy. The condition may be stated in a variety of ways, but typically the condition requires the person, action, or other thing to:
>
> (1) meet certain stated conditions;
> (2) possess certain stated characteristics; or
> (3) consist of certain stated components.
>
> I have seen nothing yet that disabuses me of this legal definition, O Sisyphean senator.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Aurelianus Cato sal.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have provided you with two arguments, one based on grammar and one based on the intend of the authors of the NR Constitution, but you have rejected both of them due to your inflexible opinion of how the word "shall" is defined.? I will (modal verb based upon the Latin 'velle') not bother bringing forth any further arguments, Senator Polyphemos, since you lack both perception and limited vision.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now be so good as to stop wasting our time with further pointless discussion.? You have your opinion and the rest of Nova Roma knows what "shall" means in respect to the NR Constitution.? I hope that you continue to give all due honor to Mefitis and Sterquilinus for the gifts they have bestowed upon you.
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gequitiuscato <catoinnyc@>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 2:51 pm
> > Subject: Cato being Consul? Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Neptune and Poseidon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Aureliane sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What would be more interesting is a logical rebuttal of my argument, based on the law, since "no-one agrees with you so you must be wrong" doesn't really quite cut it.
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@...> wrote:
>
> Salve!
> Wery well spoken. Deep down, we all have the same passion... no?
> Vale,
> L. Antonia Auriga
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete,
> >
> > "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful!
> > Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual
> > fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow
> > citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow
> > Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect
> > anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make
> > Nova Roma a happy community so that we can adore you before your altars with
> > incense!"
> >
> > Cura ut valeas,
> > Julia
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus Novis Romanis s. d.
> > >
> > >
> > > You just realize one day: there is no Romanity without the other Roman, and there is no Nova Roma without your fellow Nova Roman. He or she is your other side, your dark side or your lighter side.
> > >
> > > To be complete means to be together, inside in your psyche and outside with other people, here with the other Nova Romans.
> > >
> > > You are worthless in Nova Roma if you can't "be together" with Nova Romans.
> > >
> > > We are here to find our friends, not to find enemies.
> > >
> > > We are here to find our virtues, not to find others's faults.
> > >
> > > We are here to add something to Nova Roma, not to ask something from Her.
> > >
> > > We are here to MAKE NOVA ROMA GLORIOUS, and not to criticize, not to destruct, not to strangulate Her.
> > >
> > > Make Nova Roma glorious, through finding your friends in your supposed enemies, through finding your virtues when others are in fault, through adding your best to our community, instead of expecting it from others, and by BEING PROUD OF NOVA ROMA, because it's our work, it is our child, Nova Roma is us - not by looking at its mistakes and weaknesses.
> > >
> > > If you like what I am saying and you agree with it, please pray with me this short prayer:
> > >
> > > "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful! Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make Nova Roma a hapy community so that we can adore you before your altars with incense!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > CURATE, UTI VALEATIS!
> > >
> > > CN. LENTULUS
> > >
> >
>

> Oh... that was a prayer I composed,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Oh... that was a prayer I composed, it was composed by Pontifex Lentulus;) It is so worth repeating. Gratias...
>
> Vale,
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve!
> > Wery well spoken. Deep down, we all have the same passion... no?
> > Vale,
> > L. Antonia Auriga
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete,
> > >
> > > "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful!
> > > Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual
> > > fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow
> > > citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow
> > > Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect
> > > anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make
> > > Nova Roma a happy community so that we can adore you before your altars with
> > > incense!"
> > >
> > > Cura ut valeas,
> > > Julia
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex et sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus Novis Romanis s. d.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You just realize one day: there is no Romanity without the other Roman, and there is no Nova Roma without your fellow Nova Roman. He or she is your other side, your dark side or your lighter side.
> > > >
> > > > To be complete means to be together, inside in your psyche and outside with other people, here with the other Nova Romans.
> > > >
> > > > You are worthless in Nova Roma if you can't "be together" with Nova Romans.
> > > >
> > > > We are here to find our friends, not to find enemies.
> > > >
> > > > We are here to find our virtues, not to find others's faults.
> > > >
> > > > We are here to add something to Nova Roma, not to ask something from Her.
> > > >
> > > > We are here to MAKE NOVA ROMA GLORIOUS, and not to criticize, not to destruct, not to strangulate Her.
> > > >
> > > > Make Nova Roma glorious, through finding your friends in your supposed enemies, through finding your virtues when others are in fault, through adding your best to our community, instead of expecting it from others, and by BEING PROUD OF NOVA ROMA, because it's our work, it is our child, Nova Roma is us - not by looking at its mistakes and weaknesses.
> > > >
> > > > If you like what I am saying and you agree with it, please pray with me this short prayer:
> > > >
> > > > "Gods of Nova Roma who are the Gods of Rome! Gods Immortal, mighty, powerful! Make Nova Roma glorious, and make the Nova Romans proud of their spiritual fatherland, Nova Roma, so that we may find the friend even in those fellow citizens whom we dislike, and make us feel the joys of togetherness with fellow Romans, make us better persons, who want to give our best and do not expect anything else except the gladness of giving in exchange. Give us happiness, make Nova Roma a hapy community so that we can adore you before your altars with incense!"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > CURATE, UTI VALEATIS!
> > > >
> > > > CN. LENTULUS
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@... wrote:
>
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, as I have stated, but your opinion does not carry any force except that of your patrons, especially Sterquilinus.? I hope that your opinion will keep you warm and happy when you are deprived of salt and fire.
>
>
>
> Aurelianus
>

>Maior Aureliano Catonique spd;

> Cato Aureliane sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> Your claims of "intent" are not useful, since the intent *does not matter*. What matters is what is written. You may joke about it, but it is the legal standard.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Aureliane sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > What would be more interesting is a logical rebuttal of my argument, based on the law, since "no-one agrees with you so you must be wrong" doesn't really quite cut it.
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

>
>[excision]
> class; it's called the 'Peerless' and the point is that there can be no
> contract without the 'meeting of minds'
> http://www.lawnix.com/cases/raffles-wichelhaus.html it's a lot of fun. And
> you can read the Harvard Law Review note from 1910 on this case free online
> [excision]

>
>
> Aurelianus Albucio sal.
>
>
>
> I cannot speak specifically to the Gaulish Celts* having a sea god but it is well-known among any who have studied the Irish and Brythonic Cycles that the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Manx, and Bretons had not one but two major sea gods.  The older is called Lir or Llyr and the second is his son Mananan mac Lir.  Both of these are very prominent in many of the stories that have come down to us. 
>
>
>
> *Also, there is a fragment of an altar that I read about while in graduate school that was found in northwest Gaul and was credited to the Veneti which mentions Lir.  I will have to work to find that particular reference since it may be in a book at either the MTSU or UofM libraries.
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:38 pm
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Neptune and Poseidon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Catoni s.d.
>
> I have not much time right now, but one of the key sources corpus is the prolific Dumézil, wherein you will find other linked sources and who comes back on the Neptunalia, on Neptunus etymology (avestic Napta: moist, humid ; same family than Latin nebula (cloud), see also modern German nebel (cloud) etc.), etc..
>
> Other authors, that I have not in mind here (but an internet search could help you) have also showed that the Etruscan Nethuns had more common characters with the Greek Poseidon (which was worshipped at the Etruscan golden age south20of Latium in all the Italian areas under Greek influence), than with the Latin Neptune. It seems that the Etrusci have rather been influenced by Greeks than having a same genuine geographical source, that Romans and Latins would not have shared.
>
> These two ways (Greek to say it quick and Roman) of conceiving the role of Neptune are close, but we see some interesting differences.
>
> One last element, in order to have things a bit more complex: usually, we find common elements between Greeks and Gauls in various fields: mythology etc.. But on Poseidon-Neptune, there is no clear equivalent. Gauls had various gods and goddesses who protected rivers, sources, according they were boiling ones or not, etc.. But the authors have not found yet a real equivalent of Poseidon or Neptunus in Gaul and ancient Ireland: Nodens-Nuada has some common characters like covering angling and fishing, but not the whole wealth of a Poseidon or the complexity of a Neptunus.
>
> Vale,
>
> Albucius
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
> >
> > Salvete!
> >
> > Albucius, this brings up a question I've always wondered about; please bear in mind that I ask simply because I'm interested, not as an argument. It is constantly said that Neptune is not identical to Poseidon. How have you come to that conclusion? Are there primary sources who indicate that the Romans did *not* think they were the same Being? What do you base this idea on?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> 0A
>