Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Oct 1-6, 2009

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70716 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Finland
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70717 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70718 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70719 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70720 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Finland
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70721 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70722 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70723 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70724 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70725 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70726 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70727 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Kal. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70728 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70729 From: l_cornelius_sulla Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70730 From: l_cornelius_sulla Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70731 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70732 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70733 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70734 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70735 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70736 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70737 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70738 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Videos about Ancient Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70739 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: More Latin achievement
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70740 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70741 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Religion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70742 From: Associazione Pomerium Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Il sito dei Signa Romanorum / Signa Romanorum website
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70743 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70744 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70745 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70746 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70747 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70748 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70749 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70750 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70751 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70752 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70753 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70755 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70756 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70757 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70758 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70759 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70760 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70761 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70762 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70763 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70764 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70765 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70766 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70767 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70768 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70769 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70770 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70771 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70772 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS PRAETOR!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70773 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS PRAETOR!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70774 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
Subject: Re: Nero's Cenatio Rotunda found on the Palatine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70775 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70776 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70777 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70778 From: Colin Brodd Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70779 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70780 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70781 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70782 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70783 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70784 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70785 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70786 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70787 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70788 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: a.d. V Non.Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70789 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70790 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70791 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: "Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70792 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: a.d. V Non.Oct. - the Bacchanalia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70793 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Books and Sales [ was"Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70794 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Books and Sales [ was"Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70795 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70796 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: "Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70797 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70798 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70799 From: david.alan99 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70800 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70801 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Salve Tay
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70802 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70803 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70804 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Salve Tay
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70805 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70806 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70807 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Salve Tay
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70808 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: a.d. IV Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70810 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70811 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Database question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70812 From: Jonathan Vota Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Salve Tay
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70813 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Database question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70814 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Database question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70815 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: Database question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70816 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70817 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70818 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70819 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70820 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70821 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70822 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70823 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70824 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70825 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70826 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70827 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70828 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: News about the Cista
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70829 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: News about the Cista
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70830 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: a.d. III Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70831 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: News about the Cista
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70832 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70833 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70834 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: AUSTRORIENTALIS: Substituting Gubenator AURELIANUS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70835 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Salvete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70836 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70837 From: (no author) Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70838 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70839 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70840 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70841 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Castra Romana Charleston,SC Nov. 12-15
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70842 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70843 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70844 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70845 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70846 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Posting rules in this Forum, 10/5/2009, 11:45 pm
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70847 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Castra Romana Summerville (Charleston, SC) Nov 12 - 15
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70848 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Castra Romana Charleston,SC Nov. 12-15
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70849 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70850 From: Jonathan Vota Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: Salvete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70851 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70852 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70853 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-05
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70854 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70855 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70856 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: News about the Cista
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70857 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70858 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70859 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70860 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70861 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70862 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70863 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70864 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70865 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: prid. Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70866 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70867 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70868 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70869 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70870 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70871 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70872 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70873 From: gosystemtrainer Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70874 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70875 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70876 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70877 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70878 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70879 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70880 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70881 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70882 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70883 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70884 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70885 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70886 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70887 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70888 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70889 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70890 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70891 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70892 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70893 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete!



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70716 From: A. Sempronius Regulus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Finland
Short notice,
I will be in Helsinki tomorrow until the 7th.
Any citizens in Finland are invited to contact me.
I'm not sure Sprint works there but try
my asregulus@... email address.
It includes google phone.
Valete,
ASR

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70717 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> Sophia isn't an "avatar of Athena"; Sophia is an *attribute* of the Christian God, not a separate entity.

Why wisdom was blessed as Hagia Sophia? Why this attribute of your god never quoted in the Bible as the main of him. Because wisdom was Athena, the Parthenon was vowed to Athena, and the christian religion baptized Athena as Hagia Sophia.

> And yes, I agree; many places/buildings associated with female gods were taken over and reassigned to the Theotokos, including the Parthenon. Wasn't Notre Dame in Paris built on the site of a temple to Venus?

I have no source on this temple of Venus, I know that the Nautae of Paris erected there a very interesting stele with Gaulish gods graved on.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70718 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,

> yes, Cybele was very popular in Thrace, I have a paper on it, which I can forward if anyone is interested.

Lol. Gauls are not gales, the emasculated priests of Cybele...

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70719 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
C. Petronius Liviae Plautae s.p.d.,

> after all, the insults and gossip there are only directed to people who don't belong to the list.

As said in French: "Qui parle dans mon dos, parle à mon cul".
English translation: "Who is telling over me when my back is turned, is telling to my buttocks." :-)

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70720 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Finland
---Salve Regule;
yes! my dear wonderful friend Caius Curius Saturninus! I wish I were going so much.
I'll send you an email. I am friendly with many Nova Romans in europe and Agricola in Japan, so please ask before you fly off. I'll send you his address in an email.
optime vale
Maior
>
> Short notice,
> I will be in Helsinki tomorrow until the 7th.
> Any citizens in Finland are invited to contact me.
> I'm not sure Sprint works there but try
> my asregulus@... email address.
> It includes google phone.
> Valete,
> ASR
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70721 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
M. Hortensia C Petronio Celsoque spd;

The gallus is in the video; they all left Gaul;-). Did you see the video on the Thracian sacrifice that, Celsus posted?

Celse, is that a kind of Greek ritual that they are re-creating? .

comme ca m'amuse; parler a mon.....
optime valete
Maior
>
> C. Petronius M. Hortensiae s.p.d.,
>
> > yes, Cybele was very popular in Thrace, I have a paper on it, which I can forward if anyone is interested.
>
> Lol. Gauls are not gales, the emasculated priests of Cybele...
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70722 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Salve!

"With Him are wisdom and might; To Him belong counsel and understanding." (Job 12:13)

"Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable" (Isaiah 40:28).

"Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!" (Romans 11:33).

"Great is our Lord, and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite" (Psalms 147:5).

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

"For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding" (Proverbs 2:6).

"Daniel answered and said, 'Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to Him'" (Daniel 2:20).

"The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up, And the skies drip with dew" (Proverbs 3:19-20).

"[It is] He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens" (Jeremiah 10:12).

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > Sophia isn't an "avatar of Athena"; Sophia is an *attribute* of the Christian God, not a separate entity.
>
> Why wisdom was blessed as Hagia Sophia? Why this attribute of your god never quoted in the Bible as the main of him. Because wisdom was Athena, the Parthenon was vowed to Athena, and the christian religion baptized Athena as Hagia Sophia.
>
> > And yes, I agree; many places/buildings associated with female gods were taken over and reassigned to the Theotokos, including the Parthenon. Wasn't Notre Dame in Paris built on the site of a temple to Venus?
>
> I have no source on this temple of Venus, I know that the Nautae of Paris erected there a very interesting stele with Gaulish gods graved on.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70723 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD
 
Ex officio consularis:
 
All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
 

Legislation:

 

I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
 

Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:

  • directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
  • to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.
 
Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
CONSVL HISPANIAE

NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70724 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
Salve, that was a thracian ritual, dedicated to summer solstice.
Here are their autumn solstice ritual /from 22 sept./, but there is for facebook users only:
Vale!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70725 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning to admit that you created this sockpuppet?

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
To: nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

 

 

M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD

 

Ex officio consularis:

 

All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

 

Legislation:

 

I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

 

Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:

  • directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
  • to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.

 

Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.


M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTEN SIS
CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
CONSVL HISPANIAE

NOVA ROMA

------------ --------- --------- --------- ----

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70726 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments
 


 
2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
 

Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning to admit that you created this sockpuppet?

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
To: nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

 

 

M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD

 

Ex officio consularis:

 

All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

 

Legislation:

 

I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

 

Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:

  • directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
  • to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.

 

Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.


M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
CONSVL HISPANIAE

NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70727 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Kal. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est Kalendis Octobribus; haec dies nefastus est.

"Come let duteous Rome recognize October's kalends, the birthday of
eloquent Restitutius: with all your tongues, and in all your prayers,
utter well-omed words; we keep a birthday, be still, ye lawsuits!" -
Martial

"Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of gods and men,
without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justicia, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women"
- Silius Italicus, Punica 2.484-87

On this day a procession to the Capitol was led by the three chief
flamines who rode in a covered wagon. With the fingers of their right
hands wrapped with white cloth bands, they sacrificed to the abstract
gods of Faith and Honor. Afterwards was held a feast.


"There happened to be in each of the armies a triplet of brothers,
fairly matched in years and strength. It is generally agreed that they
were called Horatii and Curiatii. Few incidents in antiquity have been
more widely celebrated, yet in spite of its celebrity there is a
discrepancy in the accounts as to which nation each belonged. There
are authorities on both sides, but I find that the majority give the
name of Horatii to the Romans, and my sympathies lead me to follow
them. The kings suggested to them that they should each fight on
behalf of their country, and where victory rested, there should be the
sovereignty. They raised no objection; so the time and place were
fixed. But before they engaged a treaty was concluded between the
Romans and the Albans, providing that the nation whose representatives
proved victorious should receive the peaceable submission of the
other. This is the earliest treaty recorded, and as all treaties,
however different the conditions they contain, are concluded with the
same forms, I will describe the forms with which this one was
concluded as handed down by tradition. The Fetial put the formal
question to Tullus: "Do you, King, order me to make a treaty with the
Pater Patratus of the Alban nation?" On the king replying in the
affirmative, the Fetial said: "I demand of thee, King, some tufts of
grass." The king replied: "Take those that are pure." The Fetial
brought pure grass from the Citadel. Then he asked the king: "Do you
constitute me the plenipotentiary of the People of Rome, the Quirites,
sanctioning also my vessels and comrades?" To which the king replied:
"So far as may be without hurt to myself and the People of Rome, the
Quirites, I do." The Fetial was M. Valerius. He made Spurius Furius
the Pater Patratus by touching his head and hair with the grass. Then
the Pater Patratus, who is constituted for the purpose of giving the
treaty the religious sanction of an oath, did so by a long formula in
verse, which it is not worth while to quote. After reciting the
conditions he said: "Hear, O Jupiter, hear! thou Pater Patratus of the
people of Alba! Hear ye, too, people of Alba! As these conditions have
been publicly rehearsed from first to last, from these tablets, in
perfect good faith, and inasmuch as they have here and now been most
clearly understood, so these conditions the People of Rome will not be
the first to go back from. If they shall, in their national council,
with false and malicious intent be the first to go back, then do thou,
Jupiter, on that day, so smite the People of Rome, even as I here and
now shall smite this swine, and smite them so much the more heavily,
as thou art greater in power and might." With these words he struck
the swine with a flint. In similar wise the Albans recited their oath
and formularies through their own dictator and their priests.

On the conclusion of the treaty the six combatants armed themselves.
They were greeted with shouts of encouragement from their comrades,
who reminded them that their fathers' gods, their fatherland, their
fathers, every fellow-citizen, every fellow-soldier, were now watching
their weapons and the hands that wielded them. Eager for the contest
and inspired by the voices round them, they advanced into the open
space between the opposing lines. The two armies were sitting in front
of their respective camps, relieved from personal danger but not from
anxiety, since upon the fortunes and courage of this little group hung
the issue of dominion. Watchful and nervous, they gaze with feverish
intensity on a spectacle by no means entertaining. The signal was
given, and with uplifted swords the six youths charged like a
battle-line with the courage of a mighty host. Not one of them thought
of his own danger; their sole thought was for their country, whether
it would be supreme or subject, their one anxiety that they were
deciding its future fortunes. When, at the first encounter, the
flashing swords rang on their opponents' shields, a deep shudder ran
through the spectators; then a breathless silence followed, as neither
side seemed to be gaining any advantage. Soon, however, they saw
something more than the swift movements of limbs and the rapid play of
sword and shield: blood became visible flowing from open wounds. Two
of the Romans fell one on the other, breathing out their life, whilst
all the three Albans were wounded. The fall of the Romans was welcomed
with a burst of exultation from the Alban army; whilst the Roman
legions, who had lost all hope, but not all anxiety, trembled for
their solitary champion surrounded by the three Curiatii. It chanced
that he was untouched, and though not a match for the three together,
he was confident of victory against each separately. So, that he might
encounter each singly, he took to flight, assuming that they would
follow as well as their wounds would allow. He had run some distance
from the spot where the combat began, when, on looking back, he saw
them following at long intervals from each other, the foremost not far
from him. He turned and made a desperate attack upon him, and whilst
the Alban army were shouting to the other Curiatii to come to their
brother's assistance, Horatius had already slain his foe and, flushed
with victory, was awaiting the second encounter. Then the Romans
cheered their champion with a shout such as men raise when hope
succeeds to despair, and he hastened to bring the fight to a close.
Before the third, who was not far away, could come up, he despatched
the second Curiatius. The survivors were now equal in point of
numbers, but far from equal in either confidence or strength. The one,
unscathed after his double victory, was eager for the third contest;
the other, dragging himself wearily along, exhausted by his wounds and
by his running, vanquished already by the previous slaughter of his
brothers, was an easy conquest to his victorious foe. There was, in
fact, no fighting. The Roman cried exultingly: "Two have I sacrificed
to appease my brothers' shades; the third I will offer for the issue
of this fight, that the Roman may rule the Alban." He thrust his sword
downward into the neck of his opponent, who could no longer lift his
shield, and then despoiled him as he lay. Horatius was welcomed by the
Romans with shouts of triumph, all the more joyous for the fears they
had felt. Both sides turned their attention to burying their dead
champions, but with very different feelings, the one rejoicing in
wider dominion, the other deprived of their liberty and under alien
rule. The tombs stand on the spots where each fell; those of the
Romans close together, in the direction of Alba; the three Alban
tombs, at intervals, in the direction of Rome." - Livy, History of
Rome 1.24-25

On this day was also commemorated the fight between the Horatii and
the Curiatii, known as the tigillum sororium. As Rome began to
expand, her neighbors did not always willingly submit to her control.
Alba Longa, the city founded by Aeneas' son Iulus (Ascanius), was one
such city. Frictions also arose because of cattle raiding between the
cities. According to the legend, Tullius Hostilius, king of Rome,
decided against full-scale war of city against city. Instead he
proposed single combats between a triplet of three brothers from Rome,
the Horatii, and another set of male triplets, the Curiatii, who were
citizens of Alba. Alba Longa agreed. The opponents were well-matched
and battle was fierce: all three Curiatii received wounds but two of
the Horatii were killed. The third resorted to a strategem: he fled,
which lured the Curiatii into pursuing him. But as they ran the
wounded and weakened Curiatii separated from each other and space
increased between them. This enabled the last of the Horatii to turn
and confront each individually. He succeeded in killing them one by
one, and thus won the day for Rome. The city of Alba Longa was
destroyed and Roman influence throughout Latium increased. The story
of the Horatii became a favorite for its celebration of stamina,
courage against the odds, and willingness to die for one's country.
The sister of the Horatii, however, openly wept over the death of one
of the Curiatii who had been her lover. In anger her surviving brother
killed her. For this murder he was condemned to death but was spared
when he appealed to the people. To do penance he was veiled and led
under a yoke, which was a typical punishment indicating submission to
the will of another. Unlike a yoke typically used with oxen or to
carry heavy buckets from one's shoulders, the punishment yoke was
created from three spears to form a doorway through which the penitent
must crawl.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70728 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
Salve,

I notice two things. Firstly, you've somehow reinterpreted what was an act of ridicule against you to be against Jupiter OM. Secondly, even if this had been the case, which it is obviously not to anyone who reads the poll you posted, it's not a problem for the religio; not only did Romans regularly joke about their gods but blasphemy is not an operative concept in the sacra. It especially seems you've imported a Jewish attitude towards ha-Shem and plugged it into the religio.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> I have a screeshot of the a poll up put up in the BA by Cato:
>
> If Marca Hortensia and Iuppiter O.M. have a smackdown, who would win?
> created August 2, 2009
>
> Iuppiter in 5 rounds
>
> Marca Hortensia would bleat endlessly until Iuppiter just went back -to Iuno
>
> Marca Hortensia in 5 rounds
>
> Marca Hortensia -you know she has got a point, and Iuppiter should really be a <ZAP KABOOM!>
>
> ridiculing Iuppiter OM over at the BA while claiming you respect the gods on the ML.
> a two-faced liar.
> Maior
>
> >
> > Cato Hortensiae Maiori sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > LOL "REPORT ON YOUR DOUBLE FACES"? What are you, the Nova Roman HUAC? Do you have a trench coat and a secret decoder ring?
> >
> > I've challenged you at least three times to substantiate lies you have spoken about me, including this tired old bull**** about the sacra publica - offering to resign from Nova Roma forever if you could - and not once have you been able to do so. That's because I say exactly the same thing everywhere.
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve;
> > > I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.
> > >
> > > It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?
> > >
> > > When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?
> > >
> > > when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?
> > >
> > > when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
> > > Maior
> > >
> > > Salve!
> > > >
> > > > Then aren't you glad you're no longer associated with such a vile place? Be happy!
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salvete;
> > > > > yes, the 'no lurking rule' was to get rid of those who want to see what is going on but don't have the stomach to take the abuse if you say something terrible like:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Look how active the CP is.." and give examples.
> > > > >
> > > > > For that Sulla nicknamed me Goebbels: disgusting as my relatives died in the Holocaust. And he knows it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Merula doesn't heap abuse on people, but she doesn't criticize Sulla, Cato and his cronies, unlike Anna and me. Anna is routinely called every anatomical name you can think of. They are vile.
> > > > > valete
> > > > > Maior
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > By the way if you are thinking of joining the BA to find out for yourself
> > > > > > > > what's going on there, expect to be kicked from the group in a month if you
> > > > > > > > don't participate in the muck. They have a no lurking rule as well.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anna
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have never once participated in any muck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, you are one of the few on the back alley that ignores the BS. The fact that you can see what they do on the BA and have nothing to say about most of it is really amazing. I could not remain friendly with these people because of what they say and do, so I applaud your restraint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In fact, I believe i was one of
> > > > > > > the first to request people to stop calling you names and I was certainly
> > > > > > > one of the first to argue that there was no way I wanted you to be asked to
> > > > > > > leave. Yet funnily enough I've never been kicked off the BA nor asked to
> > > > > > > leave.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's not that funny actually. You have not made an enemy of yourself with TPTB. Becuase I regularly challenge and rebutt their horrible posts, I'm accused of rewriting history, lying, and being a troll. Because you ignore most of those horrible posts, you are not deemed a troll.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been a member of the BA just about as long as I've been a member of the
> > > > > > > ML (over 6 years). It's perfectly possible to be a member of the BA and have
> > > > > > > interesting discussions without participating in muck.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Only if you can be friendly with contemptible people and not go against them in most of their bullying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I certainly can't do that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I suppose a way around the no lurking rule is to make atleast one post a month, like a reply to one of Sulla's "Big Boobs" posts, or when someone talks about their kittens, or an ailing family member.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Anna
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70729 From: l_cornelius_sulla Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Praetors: don't tolerate personalities!
LOL it wouldn't be the first time she has picked other religious practices and plugged it into the Religio - when of course it is convenient for her to do so.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I notice two things. Firstly, you've somehow reinterpreted what was an act of ridicule against you to be against Jupiter OM. Secondly, even if this had been the case, which it is obviously not to anyone who reads the poll you posted, it's not a problem for the religio; not only did Romans regularly joke about their gods but blasphemy is not an operative concept in the sacra. It especially seems you've imported a Jewish attitude towards ha-Shem and plugged it into the religio.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > I have a screeshot of the a poll up put up in the BA by Cato:
> >
> > If Marca Hortensia and Iuppiter O.M. have a smackdown, who would win?
> > created August 2, 2009
> >
> > Iuppiter in 5 rounds
> >
> > Marca Hortensia would bleat endlessly until Iuppiter just went back -to Iuno
> >
> > Marca Hortensia in 5 rounds
> >
> > Marca Hortensia -you know she has got a point, and Iuppiter should really be a <ZAP KABOOM!>
> >
> > ridiculing Iuppiter OM over at the BA while claiming you respect the gods on the ML.
> > a two-faced liar.
> > Maior
> >
> > >
> > > Cato Hortensiae Maiori sal.
> > >
> > > Salve!
> > >
> > > LOL "REPORT ON YOUR DOUBLE FACES"? What are you, the Nova Roman HUAC? Do you have a trench coat and a secret decoder ring?
> > >
> > > I've challenged you at least three times to substantiate lies you have spoken about me, including this tired old bull**** about the sacra publica - offering to resign from Nova Roma forever if you could - and not once have you been able to do so. That's because I say exactly the same thing everywhere.
> > >
> > > Vale!
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve;
> > > > I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.
> > > >
> > > > It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?
> > > >
> > > > When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?
> > > >
> > > > when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?
> > > >
> > > > when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
> > > > Maior
> > > >
> > > > Salve!
> > > > >
> > > > > Then aren't you glad you're no longer associated with such a vile place? Be happy!
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salvete;
> > > > > > yes, the 'no lurking rule' was to get rid of those who want to see what is going on but don't have the stomach to take the abuse if you say something terrible like:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Look how active the CP is.." and give examples.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For that Sulla nicknamed me Goebbels: disgusting as my relatives died in the Holocaust. And he knows it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Merula doesn't heap abuse on people, but she doesn't criticize Sulla, Cato and his cronies, unlike Anna and me. Anna is routinely called every anatomical name you can think of. They are vile.
> > > > > > valete
> > > > > > Maior
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By the way if you are thinking of joining the BA to find out for yourself
> > > > > > > > > what's going on there, expect to be kicked from the group in a month if you
> > > > > > > > > don't participate in the muck. They have a no lurking rule as well.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anna
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have never once participated in any muck.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, you are one of the few on the back alley that ignores the BS. The fact that you can see what they do on the BA and have nothing to say about most of it is really amazing. I could not remain friendly with these people because of what they say and do, so I applaud your restraint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In fact, I believe i was one of
> > > > > > > > the first to request people to stop calling you names and I was certainly
> > > > > > > > one of the first to argue that there was no way I wanted you to be asked to
> > > > > > > > leave. Yet funnily enough I've never been kicked off the BA nor asked to
> > > > > > > > leave.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's not that funny actually. You have not made an enemy of yourself with TPTB. Becuase I regularly challenge and rebutt their horrible posts, I'm accused of rewriting history, lying, and being a troll. Because you ignore most of those horrible posts, you are not deemed a troll.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I've been a member of the BA just about as long as I've been a member of the
> > > > > > > > ML (over 6 years). It's perfectly possible to be a member of the BA and have
> > > > > > > > interesting discussions without participating in muck.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Only if you can be friendly with contemptible people and not go against them in most of their bullying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I certainly can't do that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I suppose a way around the no lurking rule is to make atleast one post a month, like a reply to one of Sulla's "Big Boobs" posts, or when someone talks about their kittens, or an ailing family member.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Anna
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70730 From: l_cornelius_sulla Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Yep typcial. Nothing to see here, move along.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M�CVR�COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...> wrote:
>
> Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments
>
>
>
>
> 2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
>
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning
> > to admit that you created this sockpuppet?
> >
> >
> >
> > Potitus
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
> > Behalf Of *M�CVR�COMPLVTENSIS
> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
> > *To:* nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD
> >
> >
> >
> > Ex officio consularis:
> >
> >
> >
> > All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate
> > until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
> >
> >
> >
> > Legislation:
> >
> > - Senatus consultum - Regulation of gubernatorial prorogation<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html>
> > - Senatus consultum - De provincialum pecuniarum rationibus<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html>
> >
> >
> >
> > I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be
> > prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:
> >
> > - directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
> > - to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.
> >
> >
> >
> > Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the
> > consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.
> >
> >
> > M�CVRIATIVS�COMPLVTENSIS
> > CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
> > CONSVL HISPANIAE
> >
> > NOVA ROMA
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70731 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

Ok, you have collected the word wisdom in the Bible. Very few examples to be a main attribute to your god, and, indeed, you can do the same with another word.

But wisdom is not the main attribute to a god who punish the Mankind with the Flood, not the wisdom but, indeed, the jealousy.

Hagia Sophia is an avatar of Athena. To whom was vowed the Parthenon?

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70732 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Bulgaria, Thracia Moesia? [ was REI PUBLICAE NOVAE ROMANAE
-Salve;
great, so are these reconstructed Thracian rituals? or have they been going on in Thracia, like Scandinavian Midsummer? The wreaths and red colour of the dress are really striking. Is there a meaning or is it traditional?
optime vale
Maior
What is your Roman name so I can address you properly?

>
> Salve, that was a thracian ritual, dedicated to summer solstice.
> Here are their autumn solstice ritual /from 22 sept./, but there is for facebook users only:
> http://www.facebook.com/Last.Roman?ref=name#/video/video.php?v=1245283174337
> Vale!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70733 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Salve!

You say that wisdom is not an attribute of the God in question, yet when I show you that it quite clearly *is* an attribute of His, you choose that it's not important *enough*? LOL

As for the Parthenon, it was dedicated not to the wisdom of God but to the Theotokos, so that's correct, yes. Athena and the Theotokos could conceivably be interchanged since they are both specific individual entities, female, and powerful.

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> Ok, you have collected the word wisdom in the Bible. Very few examples to be a main attribute to your god, and, indeed, you can do the same with another word.
>
> But wisdom is not the main attribute to a god who punish the Mankind with the Flood, not the wisdom but, indeed, the jealousy.
>
> Hagia Sophia is an avatar of Athena. To whom was vowed the Parthenon?
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70734 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> You say that wisdom is not an attribute of the God in question, yet when I show you that it quite clearly *is* an attribute of His, you choose that it's not important *enough*? LOL

You did not show that wisdom is an attribute of this god, you extracted the word wisdom in some passages of the bible. You can do the same thing with other words. For example with jealous or jealousy whose this god is more representative.

> As for the Parthenon, it was dedicated not to the wisdom of God but to the Theotokos, so that's correct, yes.

Not to Theotekos but to Hagia Sophia, id est Minerva/Athena. To "Notre Dame" (thetokos) or the virgin Mary, it was later by the Franks.

But in the both cases Athena is behind those christian "identities".

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70735 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

salve!

When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.

And you are absolutely correct, I stand corrected; the Parthenon was indeed dedicated first to the Hagia Sophia, the later (after the Fourth "Crusade") by the Franks to the BVM.

Vale!

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > You say that wisdom is not an attribute of the God in question, yet when I show you that it quite clearly *is* an attribute of His, you choose that it's not important *enough*? LOL
>
> You did not show that wisdom is an attribute of this god, you extracted the word wisdom in some passages of the bible. You can do the same thing with other words. For example with jealous or jealousy whose this god is more representative.
>
> > As for the Parthenon, it was dedicated not to the wisdom of God but to the Theotokos, so that's correct, yes.
>
> Not to Theotekos but to Hagia Sophia, id est Minerva/Athena. To "Notre Dame" (thetokos) or the virgin Mary, it was later by the Franks.
>
> But in the both cases Athena is behind those christian "identities".
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70736 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Ave Cato!

> When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.

In your first example extracted from Job. If you read the bible (I have it in Latin) you see:

12,12. In antiquis est sapientia.
12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam...

So the wisdom is "apud ipsum" id est with him, as said in the verse above (12,12) "in antiquis" id est with the old men, wisdom is an attribute of the old men too. Lol. Do you not see that it is a cliché. All the old men are not wise. And secondly how Job can know if his god had wisdom with him?

"Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont." (Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70737 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Avete,

>"Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun >pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus >difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume >d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont."
[...]
"Car ce n'est pas assez d'avoir l'esprit bon, mais le principal est de l'appliquer bien"(Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)

The English translation is found in "A Discourse on Method" 1-1, for both excerpts. Look it up.

*laughs* Now since we have had the Latin translations, how about the Greek as well?

Ok I am gone.

Valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ave Cato!
>
> > When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.
>
> In your first example extracted from Job. If you read the bible (I have it in Latin) you see:
>
> 12,12. In antiquis est sapientia.
> 12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
> Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam...
>
> So the wisdom is "apud ipsum" id est with him, as said in the verse above (12,12) "in antiquis" id est with the old men, wisdom is an attribute of the old men too. Lol. Do you not see that it is a cliché. All the old men are not wise. And secondly how Job can know if his god had wisdom with him?
>
> "Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont." (Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70738 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Videos about Ancient Rome
Salve Aurelianus,

I give many Novi Romani enough credit to know they do not need a building; I learned this at my father's knee. However... there has been an expressed desire to build buildings representative of their beliefs and their life preferences, in fact there is even a mailing list for it.

There are some who would like a suitable dwelling for their shrines, much like in Ancient Rome - besides the lararia in their homes/hearth - a symbol of what is important to them, of what they cherish.

You miss the point which is this is an effort worthy of note.

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick O" <brotherpaganus@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Buildings are completely unnecessary. All you need for a templum is a properly oriented, prepared, dedicated, and consecrated altar and an enclosure. Everything starts from there. Read your Cato, Varro, and Columella.
>
> Aureliane
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvéte, amícae et amící!
> >
> > Thought I would share this with you in light of the discussions on the sacra publica, the sacra privata... the Cultus Deorum Romanorum - This is a demonstration of action and might give inspiration to those who do not have enough money to build a grand Temple:
> >
> > http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=667
> >
> > A link to the video is also on this page.
> >
> > Cúrá ut valéas atque di te incolumes custodiant
> >
> > Julia
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70739 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: More Latin achievement
More Latin achievement A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    I am pleased to report that all Latin courses offered in academic 2008-2009 have officially concluded their runs despite numerous difficulties occasioned in large part by the failure of the server at the original institution, the Academia Thules.  All enrolled students who persevered to the end of their respective courses passed, and are to be congratulated.  

    We have approximately 30 students enrolled in the introductory Sermo Latinus course alone, as well as about a dozen in some of our other courses.  Registration is now closed for anyone not already in the pipeline, but those who are interested may try again next year.  In addition, the Grammatica Latina I b course (second semester) will open after winter break, and those who have completed 10-11 lessons of Grammatica I in the past will be allowed to proceed in that course.  Once again, Roman citizens should make the effort to learn the language of the Romans; it may not be easy, at least for some, but the rewards are great.  

Valete.  
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70740 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
Salve,

I'm not sure why you went to the Latin translation; it isn't very helpful in making sense of the text. In the Hebrew, 12:12 should be understood as a continuation of 12:11, which is a question. In other words, "Is wisdom with the old men and understanding in length of days?" The implied answer is "no"--the next verse begins with a disjunctive accent which creates a pause: "With him is wisdom and strength; he has counsel and understanding."

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ave Cato!
>
> > When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.
>
> In your first example extracted from Job. If you read the bible (I have it in Latin) you see:
>
> 12,12. In antiquis est sapientia.
> 12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
> Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam...
>
> So the wisdom is "apud ipsum" id est with him, as said in the verse above (12,12) "in antiquis" id est with the old men, wisdom is an attribute of the old men too. Lol. Do you not see that it is a cliché. All the old men are not wise. And secondly how Job can know if his god had wisdom with him?
>
> "Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont." (Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70741 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Re: Religion
L. Julia Aquila Fl. Galerio Aureliano omnibusque S.P.D.

FGA:> Technically, there is not supposed to be any emotional context >in performing Roman rites of the sacra but I will share with you two >events in my personal experience.


In my opinion I disagree. Human nature is full of emotion and passion leading to ecstasy, to trance states, to phenomena, through ritual practices/ritual meditations. Those who truly follow a mystical, religious or spiritual path - those who actually practice - know that the rule books, those technical tomes and accounts are guides. Those guides are the means to the path towards the spiritual goal. The rituals are there to keep us on the right path - as reminders - they also act as tools such as ritual steps of purification, gestures, adoratio, sacrifice etc. towards the proper attainment of the spiritual goals – each in its own rite has a depth of metaphysical implication and meaning. They may be a "technical" blueprint but they are also a spiritual blueprint and require the spirit of passion and emotion and inclusions of virtues such as concordia, clementia, spes, patientia and others. It is up to us mere mortals to ensure that these emotions, passions and virtues are incorporated in our practices towards the desired outcome. Archeology, anthropology and historical sciences, studies and scholarly pursuits have found emotive and passionate vestiges of utterances bespeaking such emotions, passions and virtues - not always written in books, but in ruins, on tombs and other sources such as in ancient letters from common folk. We have to look at the ancient Romans in their entirety with all the tools at our disposal, not just with the classics.
The peoples of Italia, Gallia, Dacia and Hispania etc. did not become the passionate people they are today without spiritual depth in antiquity.
To be technical is to just go through the motions; that is not how I was taught, had my elders ever thought that was all I was doing I would have been relieved of any ritual I was engaged in. One cannot just go through a ritual just for correctness sake, the meaning is in the heart - the ancient Romans did not need to be taught passion, heart, how to emote, how to experience phenomena. Even in war Romans were driven by passions of one sort or another.

Is Lucretius' De Rerum Natura without Passion?
Is Ovidus' Fasti without Passion?
Is the Carmina of Horace without Passion?
What of the passionate prayers of Plautus, Hippo, Cicero, Livy, Paterculus etc.?

They surely were not wholly technical.

Our esteemed PM, M. Horatius Piscinus demonstrated some very good examples of the manifestation of spiritual experience, Message #70474:
"Pomp and ceremony was only one part of the sacra publica, and not necessarily the most important. Livy speaks of the hypnotic effect of a chant performed in rhythm, kept by the beat of stomping feet. And there were the Sali, leaping not by some choreographed dance but in the ecstacy of the moment. There is the mention of how augurs had to go to a river, drink from it, and splash themselves in order to break the trance-like state they attained during ritual."

In my mind I would be suspect of anyone who performs a purely technical ritual because then it might be performance only.

Valéte optimé in cúráte deorum

Julia

P.S. Please note it is only Aurelianus' initial statement that I am in disagreement with as a historical statement. It is clear that he has stated that he does experience phenomena in his own practice.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick O" <brotherpaganus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve John,
>
> Technically, there is not supposed to be any emotional context in performing Roman rites of the sacra but I will share with you two events in my personal experience.
>
> In June three years ago when I was taking the auspices for the Templum Neptunus, I arrive before sunrise and prepared myself by rinsing my hands while reciting the Purga, lighting the turibuli on the altars, offering incense and good prayers to the Gods. All of these actions may have been be rituals but they put me in the proper head space. After sitting myself in the augural seat and covering my head, I defined my celestial templum. The next hour was quite special as I listed to my discreet tape of flute music and watched and listened for Iuppiter's signs--the sound of dogs, the sight and sound of horses, the flight and sound of oscines and alites--under a clear, still blue sky lightening with the rays of Sol Indiges Austrorientaliorum. Very intense, amice.
>
> Earlier this year, during the troubles over the censorial election, I took the auspices during a period before sunset. My question dealt with whether I should continue certain actions or stop. After the usual preparations, I took my seat & defined my celestial templum. I watched a powerful thunderstorm literally build up before my eyes, the wind moving hardly at all, and then (I kid you not) hundreds of lightning flashes and thunder strikes with hardly a drop of rain. So many I quickly lost count but learned the next day that there had been a couple of thousand lightning strikes in the north central Tennessee area. I have never, ever had Iuppiter or Summanus provide a clearer answer to a question. The odd thing was that during the experience, it never occurred to me that it was an incredibly stupid thing to be sitting outside during that kind of storm. I was just so caught up in the moment.
>
> I have taken the auspices no more than twenty or so times since 2006 and most of the time they have usually been neither strongly positive or negative. There were few that were especially memorable but the intensity of those two experiences are going to stay with me.
>
> Learning to perform the rituals of the sacra correctly and without effort allows the mind, the body, and the spirit to be able to open oneself to the experience. Whether it is the simple satisfaction of a ritus done correctly without incident so as to connect with our Roman forebears or the intense feelings generated by Dii Immortales when answering our offerings and prayers via the numen.
>
> Vale.
>
> Aureliane
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "John Citron" <johnnormancitron@> wrote:
> >
> > It's quite amazing to listen to everyone here talk about the various technical aspects of the Religio, how it should be administered, observed, and maintained.
> >
> > There's talk of orthopraxy, orthodoxy, reconstruction, law, theory, etc.. Fascinating!
> >
> > But it is quite sad that there is never any talk of the emotional context of the religious experience.
> >
> > I don't hear any comment on the joy and ecstasy of performing the rites. No talk about the desire to be connected to the divine. No discussion of the elevation of the consciousness as one tries to contemplate the gods.
> >
> > All that I hear being said is cold, clinical, and without spiritual depth. Religion, any religion, cannot exist in the absence of those aspects.
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70742 From: Associazione Pomerium Date: 2009-10-01
Subject: Il sito dei Signa Romanorum / Signa Romanorum website
Attachments :
     

     

     

     

     

     
     
    greetings,
     
    we're pleased to inform you that the Signa Romanorum website  (evidences of the ancient Romans) long-term renumeration and a partly-restyling processes has ended (www.signaromanorum.org).
    Now onward we are dedicated to add information and technical details to the 1039 inscribed monuments. By the way we are ready to add new monuments to the lists also thanks to your advice.
     
    As usual  the SR projecy calls for anyone's help about sources or knowledge you have to enrich the monuments database now inscribed, with data and pictures to describe better them. These following items, now available on the website, will help:
     
    - automatic receive of new articles and comments made on the website, with a triple choice (by mail, by bookmark on Internet Explorer or other browser or automatic update on your webpage as e.g. IGoogle). You can find this choice on the top right hand side of the www.signaromanorum.org page.(the former e-mail receiving method is not working anylonger; if subscribed earlier please make these choice)
     
    - now you can write directly a comment following an article. If important data were written, these could be included in the article itself to enrich information about a monument. All general or technical information, links to other websites regarding a monument, or things like that are most welcolmed.
     

    Waiting for you on Signa Romanorum www.signaromanorum.org
     
    best regards
     
    Signa Romanorum è un progetto
     

     

    Per informazioni:
    Associazione Pomerium - www.pomerium.org
    c/o Marocco F. - Viale Alessandrino 477 - 00172 Roma

    info@pomerium.org - amministrazione@pomerium.orgsegreteria@pomerium.org

     

    Vive ergo moribus praeteritis, loquere verbis praesentibus (Vivi perciò con la moralità degli antichi, ma usa le parole della modernità; A.Gellio - Notti Attiche)

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70743 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-01
    Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
    Salve Gaultere,

    Are you proficient in Hebrew?
    It is my understanding that a Greek translation of the Septuagint is the OT version used in the Orthodox Church, which Cato may have been quoting from. Even though it is believed to be translated by Jewish scholars into Greek under Ptolemy's orders in the 3rd Century B.C.E., not only is this questionable but there is enough room to allow for differences in the translations, as are found in the many different versions of the Bible.
    That said, and if Cato is using an OT version based on a Greek translation – would it not be better to translate the words from the Greek rather from the Hebrew which could be any one of different dialects, i.e. Targum, Syro-Chaldiac, Samaritan, Massoretic or even a more obscure archaic one at that - and with a possibility of not being a priestly but scholarly translation which could make a vast difference and some Hebrew scribes were not priests or scholars even though they were pious affecting such as midrash. Even the Jewish Proselyte, Aquila, wrote a literal rendering of the Hebrew OT that was highly esteemed by ancient Jews in the second century C.E.
    I am not a Biblical scholar, although I not completely misinformed and have some study of the subject, it is not my field of expertise so I am simply enquiring.

    As for wisdom or not, I have met and respected many men and women of many faiths and beliefs who have much wisdom and believe their respective deities have vast wisdom and so I will not refute their belief in the God, Gods or Goddesses they hold to their hearts.

    My query then – is purely – technical :)

    Dexter's use of Biblical Latin does at least bring the conversation closer to "on-topic" for a Roman ML .

    Cúrá ut valeás optimé

    Julia


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > I'm not sure why you went to the Latin translation; it isn't very helpful in making sense of the text. In the Hebrew, 12:12 should be understood as a continuation of 12:11, which is a question. In other words, "Is wisdom with the old men and understanding in length of days?" The implied answer is "no"--the next verse begins with a disjunctive accent which creates a pause: "With him is wisdom and strength; he has counsel and understanding."
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > Gualterus
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Ave Cato!
    > >
    > > > When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.
    > >
    > > In your first example extracted from Job. If you read the bible (I have it in Latin) you see:
    > >
    > > 12,12. In antiquis est sapientia.
    > > 12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
    > > Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam...
    > >
    > > So the wisdom is "apud ipsum" id est with him, as said in the verse above (12,12) "in antiquis" id est with the old men, wisdom is an attribute of the old men too. Lol. Do you not see that it is a cliché. All the old men are not wise. And secondly how Job can know if his god had wisdom with him?
    > >
    > > "Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont." (Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)
    > >
    > > Vale.
    > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70744 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-01
    Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
    Salve,

    Yes I am, and I'm not sure which translation he was quoting from, but if his point was to demonstrate that the OT attributes wisdom to Yahweh then I think it is best to go to the Hebrew (of course, choosing Job was a poor choice, since the Hebrew of Job is late, filled with Aramaisms and often ill-understood; I can think of many better examples to make his point, so if the discussion over the current verses goes nowhere I'd be just as happy to leave it like that). Moreover, the LXX translation of Job, in general, is not very accurate. For these verses I've already looked at the Greek and it doesn't shed much light. Vs. 11 in the Greek isn't even rendered as a question, while the Hebrew clearly marks it as such.

    As a side note, the LXX was not translated in one-go; the Torah probably was in the late 3rd or early 2nd cen. BCE, but the other books were later. There were also even later revisions and retranslations; you've mentioned one of the characters involved, Aquila; the other two of the "big three" are Theodotion and Symmachus. Consequently, the original LXX translation is usually referred to as the "Old Greek".

    As for the issue of dialects, I think you've accidentally jumbled up different things. The Targums are Aramaic paraphrases (which can be useful to get a sense of how the text was understood when the Targums were written). The Samaritan bible only consists of the Torah; it is in biblical Hebrew, but written with an alphabet based on paleo-Hebrew (not the later "square" alphabet which derives from the Aramaic alphabet). The Hebrew text you find in any bible today is based on the Masoretic tradition, but this applies primarily to the vowel pointing and accents. However, while the system is medieval, it usually reflects a much older understanding of the text (not unlike Greek accents in standard editions of classical texts being medieval, but usually correct anyway).

    To advance the discussion, over the weekend I can go to the library and see how Job is preserved in the Dead Sea Scrolls and how the Greek Versions (Aquila, etc) translate the verse, but I hope the argument doesn't go that far because I have other things to do. :)

    Vale,

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Gaultere,
    >
    > Are you proficient in Hebrew?
    > It is my understanding that a Greek translation of the Septuagint is the OT version used in the Orthodox Church, which Cato may have been quoting from. Even though it is believed to be translated by Jewish scholars into Greek under Ptolemy's orders in the 3rd Century B.C.E., not only is this questionable but there is enough room to allow for differences in the translations, as are found in the many different versions of the Bible.
    > That said, and if Cato is using an OT version based on a Greek translation – would it not be better to translate the words from the Greek rather from the Hebrew which could be any one of different dialects, i.e. Targum, Syro-Chaldiac, Samaritan, Massoretic or even a more obscure archaic one at that - and with a possibility of not being a priestly but scholarly translation which could make a vast difference and some Hebrew scribes were not priests or scholars even though they were pious affecting such as midrash. Even the Jewish Proselyte, Aquila, wrote a literal rendering of the Hebrew OT that was highly esteemed by ancient Jews in the second century C.E.
    > I am not a Biblical scholar, although I not completely misinformed and have some study of the subject, it is not my field of expertise so I am simply enquiring.
    >
    > As for wisdom or not, I have met and respected many men and women of many faiths and beliefs who have much wisdom and believe their respective deities have vast wisdom and so I will not refute their belief in the God, Gods or Goddesses they hold to their hearts.
    >
    > My query then – is purely – technical :)
    >
    > Dexter's use of Biblical Latin does at least bring the conversation closer to "on-topic" for a Roman ML .
    >
    > Cúrá ut valeás optimé
    >
    > Julia
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > >
    > > I'm not sure why you went to the Latin translation; it isn't very helpful in making sense of the text. In the Hebrew, 12:12 should be understood as a continuation of 12:11, which is a question. In other words, "Is wisdom with the old men and understanding in length of days?" The implied answer is "no"--the next verse begins with a disjunctive accent which creates a pause: "With him is wisdom and strength; he has counsel and understanding."
    > >
    > > Vale,
    > >
    > > Gualterus
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Ave Cato!
    > > >
    > > > > When passages in the Bible praise and celebrate God for His wisdom, it is a logical assumption that wisdom is one of His attributes.
    > > >
    > > > In your first example extracted from Job. If you read the bible (I have it in Latin) you see:
    > > >
    > > > 12,12. In antiquis est sapientia.
    > > > 12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
    > > > Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam...
    > > >
    > > > So the wisdom is "apud ipsum" id est with him, as said in the verse above (12,12) "in antiquis" id est with the old men, wisdom is an attribute of the old men too. Lol. Do you not see that it is a cliché. All the old men are not wise. And secondly how Job can know if his god had wisdom with him?
    > > >
    > > > "Le bon sens est la chose du monde la mieux partagée : car chacun pense en être si bien pourvu, que ceux même qui sont les plus difficiles à contenter en toute autre chose, n'ont point coutume d'en désirer plus qu'ils en ont." (Descartes, Discours de la méthode.)
    > > >
    > > > Vale.
    > > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70745 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-01
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying about it?

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:03 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments

     



     

    2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@cox. net>

     

    Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning to admit that you created this sockpuppet?

     

    Potitus

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
    To: nova-roma; novaroma-announce@ yahoogroups. com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD

     

    Ex officio consularis:

     

    All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

     

    Legislation:

     

    I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

     

    Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:

    • directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
    • to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.

     

    Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.


    M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTEN SIS
    CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    CONSVL HISPANIAE

    NOVA ROMA

    ------------ --------- --------- --------- ----

    ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70746 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
    Ave,

    > I'm not sure why you went to the Latin translation; it isn't very helpful in making sense of the text.

    Oh there's Gualterus... quomodo vales? You invites yourself in the discussion between Cato and me. Please, have a seat! Argh, you like once more controversy and with dishonesty, as said our Regulus.

    "It is not very helpful in making sense" you said. Perhaps, but it is the one version of the bible that I have. Title: Biblia Sacra iuxta Vulgatam Clementinam. If its sense is not clear, point out to the Vatican that.

    Here this versio:

    12,11. Nonne auris verba diiudicat?
    Et fauces comedentis, saporem?
    12,12. In antiquis est sapientia
    et in multo tempore prudentia.
    12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
    Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam.

    The point of interrogation of the verse 12,12 is not in the Vaticana versio. A reason, perhaps, for a new schisme. ;o)

    So, I do not believe in your reading of the text, because Ieronymus made his Latin translation from the Hebrew. And Ieronymus is a father of the christian church, but you not. In my debate with Cato I have to take my examples in exemplary fashion.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70747 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Potito s.p.d.,

    > Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying about
    > it?

    What do you make of the presumption of innocence? In which proofs can you affirm that he is lying?

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70748 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
    Vale,

    "you like once more controversy and with dishonesty"? What kind of dishonesty? Are you feeling inadequate because you can't read Hebrew? By what standards do you evaluate Jerome's translation? Since you don't know Hebrew, do you take the translation on faith? If you so much trust the interpretations of the Church Fathers, why don't you agree with them on other issues, such as the origin of the church and its relationship to other mystery cults?

    I think you are just disagreeing with me because you don't like me and not from a position of education.

    Vale,

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Ave,
    >
    > > I'm not sure why you went to the Latin translation; it isn't very helpful in making sense of the text.
    >
    > Oh there's Gualterus... quomodo vales? You invites yourself in the discussion between Cato and me. Please, have a seat! Argh, you like once more controversy and with dishonesty, as said our Regulus.
    >
    > "It is not very helpful in making sense" you said. Perhaps, but it is the one version of the bible that I have. Title: Biblia Sacra iuxta Vulgatam Clementinam. If its sense is not clear, point out to the Vatican that.
    >
    > Here this versio:
    >
    > 12,11. Nonne auris verba diiudicat?
    > Et fauces comedentis, saporem?
    > 12,12. In antiquis est sapientia
    > et in multo tempore prudentia.
    > 12,13. Apud ipsum est sapientia et fortitudo;
    > Ipse habet consilium et intelligentiam.
    >
    > The point of interrogation of the verse 12,12 is not in the Vaticana versio. A reason, perhaps, for a new schisme. ;o)
    >
    > So, I do not believe in your reading of the text, because Ieronymus made his Latin translation from the Hebrew. And Ieronymus is a father of the christian church, but you not. In my debate with Cato I have to take my examples in exemplary fashion.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70749 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: Notre Dame de Paris/ was Notre Dame d'Athènes
    Cato Petronio Dextero Gualtero Graecusque SPD

    Salvete.

    Gentlemen, my original point still stands: "wisdom" is simply one of the attributes of the monotheistic God. It is not the *only* attribute, but it is an attribute, not a separate entity. The divine is given many different attributes, and since in the case of the monotheistic faiths there is only one god, the attributes given to Him are perfect. He has perfect wisdom. The Church of the Hagia Sophia is a church in honor of the perfect wisdom of God. In some instances the Holy Wisdom of God is exemplified by the Theotokos because wisdom comes from humility; in others, by Christ Himself:

    "But we preach Christ crucified ... Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." - I Corinthians 1:23-24

    So it is not solely a "feminine" attribute.

    If a faith posits a single god, that god will contain within itself *all* the attributes that in polytheistic faiths are spread out amongst several gods and goddesses by simple necessity. So saying "the Christian god is described as the King of Heaven, so any church dedicated to His majesty is really a temple to Iuppiter" or "the Christian god is described as having wisdom, so any church dedicated to His wisdom is really a temple to Athena" is specious.

    Valete,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70750 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    The stupidity is the mother of the repetition, and the repetition is sign of stupidity.

    2009/10/2, Steve Moore <astrobear@...>:
     

    Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying about it?

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:03 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments

     



     

    2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@...>

     

    Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning to admit that you created this sockpuppet?

     

    Potitus

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
    To: nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD

     

    Ex officio consularis:

     

    All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

     

    Legislation:

     

    I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).

     

    Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:

    • directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
    • to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.

     

    Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.


    M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    CONSVL HISPANIAE

    NOVA ROMA

    -------------------------------------------

    ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

     



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70751 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Well, this was a pretty stupid variation of "repetitio est mater studiorum"

    You're guilty so it's better you stay quiet.

    -Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...> wrote:
    >
    > The stupidity is the mother of the repetition, and the repetition is sign of
    > stupidity.
    >
    > 2009/10/2, Steve Moore <astrobear@...>:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying
    > > about it?
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------
    > >
    > > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    > > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    > > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:03 AM
    > > *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > > *Subject:* Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > 2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you planning
    > > to admit that you created this sockpuppet?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Potitus
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------
    > >
    > > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    > > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    > > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
    > > *To:* nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
    > > *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Ex officio consularis:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate
    > > until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Legislation:
    > >
    > > - Senatus consultum - Regulation of gubernatorial prorogation<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html>
    > > - Senatus consultum - De provincialum pecuniarum rationibus<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be
    > > prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:
    > >
    > > - directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
    > > - to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the
    > > consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.
    > >
    > >
    > > M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    > > CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    > > CONSVL HISPANIAE
    > >
    > > NOVA ROMA
    > >
    > > -------------------------------------------
    > >
    > > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70752 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Jawol mein accuser, judge, juror and executioner.



    2009/10/2, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>:
    >
    > Well, this was a pretty stupid variation of "repetitio est mater studiorum"
    >
    > You're guilty so it's better you stay quiet.
    >
    > -Gualterus
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...>
    > wrote:
    >>
    >> The stupidity is the mother of the repetition, and the repetition is sign
    >> of
    >> stupidity.
    >>
    >> 2009/10/2, Steve Moore <astrobear@...>:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying
    >> > about it?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > ------------------------------
    >> >
    >> > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    >> > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    >> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:03 AM
    >> > *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    >> > *Subject:* Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > 2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@...>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you
    >> > planning
    >> > to admit that you created this sockpuppet?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Potitus
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > ------------------------------
    >> >
    >> > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    >> > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    >> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
    >> > *To:* nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
    >> > *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Ex officio consularis:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate
    >> > until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Legislation:
    >> >
    >> > - Senatus consultum - Regulation of gubernatorial
    >> > prorogation<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html>
    >> > - Senatus consultum - De provincialum pecuniarum
    >> > rationibus<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be
    >> > prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD
    >> > 2009).
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:
    >> >
    >> > - directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
    >> > - to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the
    >> > consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    >> > CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    >> > CONSVL HISPANIAE
    >> >
    >> > NOVA ROMA
    >> >
    >> > -------------------------------------------
    >> >
    >> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >>
    >
    >
    >


    --
    M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    CONSVL HISPANIAE

    NOVA ROMA

    -------------------------------------------

    ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70753 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    lol, how rhetorically clever of you.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@...> wrote:
    >
    > Jawol mein accuser, judge, juror and executioner.
    >
    >
    >
    > 2009/10/2, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>:
    > >
    > > Well, this was a pretty stupid variation of "repetitio est mater studiorum"
    > >
    > > You're guilty so it's better you stay quiet.
    > >
    > > -Gualterus
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS <complutensis@>
    > > wrote:
    > >>
    > >> The stupidity is the mother of the repetition, and the repetition is sign
    > >> of
    > >> stupidity.
    > >>
    > >> 2009/10/2, Steve Moore <astrobear@>:
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying
    > >> > about it?
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > ------------------------------
    > >> >
    > >> > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    > >> > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    > >> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:03 AM
    > >> > *To:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > >> > *Subject:* Re: [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Turn a deaf ear to foolish comments
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > 2009/10/1 Steve Moore <astrobear@>
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Thank you for the reminder, Pasquinus. By the way, when were you
    > >> > planning
    > >> > to admit that you created this sockpuppet?
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Potitus
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > ------------------------------
    > >> >
    > >> > *From:* Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] *On
    > >> > Behalf Of *M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS
    > >> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:37 AM
    > >> > *To:* nova-roma; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
    > >> > *Subject:* [Nova-Roma] TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > M. Curiatius Complutensis Senior Consul all provincial governors SPD
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Ex officio consularis:
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > All governors are reminded that the annual report is due to the Senate
    > >> > until 1st of November 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009).
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Legislation:
    > >> >
    > >> > - Senatus consultum - Regulation of gubernatorial
    > >> > prorogation<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2001-03-11-iv.html>
    > >> > - Senatus consultum - De provincialum pecuniarum
    > >> > rationibus<http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-06-14-ii.html>
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > I want to please each governor to indicate wheather or not he wish to be
    > >> > prorogued by the Senate for another term of office for 2762 a.U.c (AD
    > >> > 2009).
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Governors can send their reports using one of the following options:
    > >> >
    > >> > - directly to Nova Roman Senate or,
    > >> > - to consul M. Curiatius Complutensis.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > Given under my hand this 1st day of October 2762 a.U.c (AD 2009), in the
    > >> > consulship of M. Curiatius Complutensis and M. Iulius Severus.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    > >> > CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    > >> > CONSVL HISPANIAE
    > >> >
    > >> > NOVA ROMA
    > >> >
    > >> > -------------------------------------------
    > >> >
    > >> > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > --
    > M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    > CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    > CONSVL HISPANIAE
    >
    > NOVA ROMA
    >
    > -------------------------------------------
    >
    > ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70755 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Potitus Petronio SPD.

     

    If you assume that he is innocent, would you be willing to work with me on an investigation to prove whether Complutensis is innocent or guilty?

     

    Here’s what I proposed to Consul Severus (a proposal that was welcomed at first, then ignored):

     

    Since it is nearly impossible to find a neutral party to lead an investigation, I propose that we set up an investigation that builds neutrality into its structure. This is done by appointing two investigators with opposing viewpoints, who both agree to a written protocol to investigate the facts of this matter, consider the circumstantial evidence, and report these findings. (The investigators would not be judges: other magistrates or the Senate would be the judges.)

     

    I further proposed that this investigation should  be transparent and open to the view of all interested citizens. To accomplish this, the investigators would publish their findings “in real time” on the Comitia Centuriata group list, where only citizens can be registered to view.

     

    If you will join me in this, we can ask Consul Severus to issue an edict (he has a draft edict which I wrote) and begin the investigation next week.

     

    If anyone else reading this message is willing to join me in this investigation, please let me know.

     

    Vale,

    M. Valerius Potitus

    Legatus Propraetor, America Austroccidentalis

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petronius_dexter
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:15 PM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    C. Petronius Potito s.p.d.,

    > Foolish like someone creating a sock puppet, getting caught and lying
    about
    > it?

    What do you make of the presumption of innocence? In which proofs can you affirm that he is lying?

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70756 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
    C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

    > Hodiermus dies est ante diem VI Idus Octobris; haec dies fastus
    > aterque est.

    Not at all, today is ante diem VI Nonas Octobres. Ante diem VI Idus Octobres is on October 10th.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70757 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Potito s.p.d.,

    > If you assume that he is innocent, would you be willing to work with me on
    > an investigation to prove whether Complutensis is innocent or guilty?

    I do not know the American laws, but in France you must proove the guilt not the innocence. A priori a man is innocent, and he has an accusator who has to proove his guilt.

    Secondly, in France you are guilty if a law say what is the guilt. Before investigation, give me the Nova Roman law in which it is said that it is guilty to change his electronic-pseudo.

    I have no time to spend in vanity.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70758 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
    On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:


    Today - like every day that follows the Kalends, Ides, or Nones of a month - is a dies ater, or unlucky day.  One should try to avoid making journeys, starting new projects, or doing anything risky;
    certain deities, including Iuppiter and Ianus, should not be named.
    these days are ill-omened to begin any new project, and any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed.

    This intrigues me. If the second of every month (the day following the Kalends) was regarded as unlucky. How did the Romans view someone who was born on that day? Were they regarded as unucky? (My daughter was born on the 2nd)

    Flavia Lucilla Merula
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70759 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
    Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

    Salve!

    You are correct - I'm a little rusty! I have changed it :)

    Vale!

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    > C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
    >
    > > Hodiermus dies est ante diem VI Idus Octobris; haec dies fastus
    > > aterque est.
    >
    > Not at all, today is ante diem VI Nonas Octobres. Ante diem VI Idus Octobres is on October 10th.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70760 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: a.d. VI Non. Oct.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiermus dies est ante diem VI Nonas Octobris; haec dies fastus
    aterque est.

    "Whilst the Romans were passing their time quietly at the outposts, a
    gigantic Gaul in splendid armour advanced towards them, and delivered
    a challenge through an interpreter to meet any Roman in single combat.
    There was a young military tribune, named Marcus Valerius, who
    considered himself no less worthy of that honour than T. Manlius had
    been. After obtaining the consul's permission, he marched, completely
    armed, into the open ground between the two armies. The human element
    in the fight was thrown into the shade by the direct interposition of
    the gods, for just as they were engaging a crow settled all of a
    sudden on the Roman's helmet with its head towards his antagonist. The
    tribune gladly accepted this as a divinely-sent augury, and prayed
    that whether it were god or goddess who had sent the auspicious bird
    that deity would be gracious to him and help him. Wonderful to relate,
    not only did the bird keep its place on the helmet, but every time
    they encountered it rose on its wings and attacked the Gaul's face and
    eyes with beak and talon, until, terrified at the sight of so dire a
    portent and bewildered in eyes and mind alike, he was slain by
    Valerius. Then, soaring away eastwards, the crow passed out of sight.
    Hitherto the outposts on both sides had remained quiet, but when the
    tribune began to despoil his foeman's corpse, the Gauls no longer kept
    their posts, whilst the Romans ran still more swiftly to help the
    victor. A furious fight took place round the body as it lay, and not
    only the maniples at the nearest outposts but the legions pouring out
    from the camp joined in the fray. The soldiers were exultant at their
    tribune's victory and at the manifest presence and help of the gods,
    and as Camillus ordered them into action he pointed to the tribune,
    conspicuous with his spoils, and said: "Follow his example, soldiers,
    and lay the Gauls in heaps round their fallen champion!" Gods and man
    alike took part in the battle, and it was fought out to a finish,
    unmistakably disastrous to the Gauls, so completely had each army
    anticipated a result corresponding to that of the single combat. Those
    Gauls who began the fight fought desperately, but the rest of the host
    who came to help them turned back before they came within range of the
    missiles. They dispersed amongst the Volscians and over the Falernian
    district; from thence they made their way to Apulia and the western
    sea.

    The consul mustered his troops on parade, and after praising the
    conduct of the tribune presented him with ten oxen and a golden
    chaplet. In consequence of instructions received from the senate he
    took over the maritime war and joined his forces with those of the
    praetor. The Greeks were too lacking in courage to run the risk of a
    general engagement, and there was every prospect of the war proving a
    long one. Camillus was in consequence authorised by the senate to
    nominate T. Manlius Torquatus as Dictator for the purpose of
    conducting the elections. After appointing A. Cornelius Cossus as
    Master of the Horse, the Dictator proceeded to hold the consular
    elections. Marcus Valerius Corvus (for that was henceforth his
    cognomen), a young man of twenty-three, was declared to be duly
    elected amidst the enthusiastic cheers of the people. His colleague
    was the plebeian, M. Popilius Laenas, now elected for the fourth time.
    Nothing worth recording took place between Camillus and the Greeks;
    they were no fighters on land and the Romans could not fight on the
    sea. Ultimately, as they were prevented from landing anywhere and
    water and the other necessaries of life failed them, they abandoned
    Italy. To what Greek state or nationality that fleet belonged is a
    matter of uncertainty; I think it most likely that it belonged to the
    tyrant of Sicily, for Greece itself was at that time exhausted by
    intestine wars and was watching with dread the growing power of
    Macedonia." - Livy, History of Rome 7.26


    "Why do they reckon the day that follows the Kalends, the Nones, or the Ides as
    unsuitable for leaving home or for travel?

    Is it, as most authorities think and as Livy records, that on the day after the
    Ides of Quintilis, which they now call July, the military tribunes led out the
    army, and were vanquished in battle by the Gauls at the river Allia and lost the
    City? But when the day after the Ides had come to be regarded as ill-omened,
    did superstition, as is its wont, extend the custom further, and involve in the
    same circumspection the day after the Nones and the day after the Kalends?

    Or does this contain many irrational assumptions? For it was on a different day
    that they were defeated in battle, a day which they call Alliensis from the
    river, and make a dread day of expiation; and although they have many ill-omened
    days, they do not observe them under the same names in each month, but each in
    the month in which it occurs; and it is thus quite incredible that the
    superstition should have attached itself simply to all the days that follow
    immediately after the Nones or the Kalends.

    Consider the following analogy: just as they have dedicated the first month to
    the gods of Olympus, and the second, in which they perform certain rites of
    purification and sacrifice to the departed, to the gods of the lower world, so
    also in regard to the days of the month they have established three as festive
    and holy days, as I have stated, which are, as it were, fundamental and
    sovereign days; but the days which follow immediately they have dedicated to the
    spirits and the dead, and have come to regard them as ill-omened and unsuitable
    for business. In fact, the Greeks worship the gods on the day of the new moon;
    the next day they have duly assigned to the heroes and spirits, and the second
    bowl of wine is mixed in honour of the heroes and heroines. And speaking
    generally, time is a sort of number; and the beginning of number is divine, for
    it is the monad. But after it is the dyad, antagonistic to the beginning number,
    and the first of the even numbers. The even numbers are imperfect, incomplete,
    and indeterminate, just as the odd numbers are determinate, completing, and
    perfect. Wherefore, in like manner, the Nones succeed the Kalends at an
    interval of five days and the Ides succeed the Nones at an interval of nine
    days. For the odd numbers define the beginnings but even numbers, since they
    occur after the beginnings, have no position nor power; therefore on these days
    they do not begin any business or travel.

    Or has also the saying of Themistocles some foundation in reason? For once upon
    a time, said he, the Day-After had an altercation with the Feast-Day on the
    ground that the Feast-Day had much labour and toil, whereas she herself provided
    the opportunity of enjoying in leisure and quiet all the things prepared for the
    festival. To this the Feast-Day replied 'You are quite right; but if I had not
    been, you would not be!' This story Themistocles related to the Athenian
    generals who succeeded him, to show that they would have been nowhere, if he
    himself had not saved the city.

    Since, therefore, all travel and all business of importance needs provision and
    preparation, and since in ancient days the Romans, at the time of festivals,
    made no provision or plan for anything, save only that they were engaged in the
    service of their gods and busied themselves with this only, just as even to this
    day the priests cause such a proclamation to be made in advance as they proceed
    on their way to sacrifice; so it was only natural that they did not set out on a
    journey immediately after their festivals, nor did they transact any business,
    for they were unprepared; but that day they always spent at home making their
    plans and preparations.

    Or is it even as men now, who have offered their prayers and oblations, are wont
    to tarry and sit a while in the temples, and so they would not let busy days
    succeed holy days immediately, but made some pause and breathing-space between,
    since business brings with it much that is distasteful and undesired?" -
    Plutarch, "The Roman Questions" 25

    Today - like every day that follows the Kalends, Ides, or Nones of a month - is
    a dies ater, or unlucky day. One should try to avoid making journeys, starting
    new projects, or doing anything risky;
    certain deities, including Iuppiter and Ianus, should not be named.
    these days are ill-omened to begin any new project, and any new project would
    necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods.
    Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70761 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
    Cato Lucillae Merulae sal.

    I think you could probably look at it two ways. You could offer prayers to Iuno Lucina asking Her protection for the child (She's the goddess of "bringing into the light" and associated with childbirth), or you could take Plutarch's suggestion that only the day after the Ides is truly unlucky because of the Roman defeat at the Allia.

    But I'll look around and see if I can find anything about it; of course, any one of our more scholarly types might know more :)

    Vale,

    Cato





    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Today - like every day that follows the Kalends, Ides, or Nones of a month
    > > - is a dies ater, or unlucky day. One should try to avoid making journeys,
    > > starting new projects, or doing anything risky;
    > > certain deities, including Iuppiter and Ianus, should not be named.
    > > these days are ill-omened to begin any new project, and any new project
    > > would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of
    > > the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be
    > > performed.
    > >
    >
    > This intrigues me. If the second of every month (the day following the
    > Kalends) was regarded as unlucky. How did the Romans view someone who was
    > born on that day? Were they regarded as unucky? (My daughter was born on the
    > 2nd)
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70762 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
    On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    Cato Lucillae Merulae sal.

    I think you could probably look at it two ways.  You could offer prayers to Iuno Lucina asking Her protection for the child (She's the goddess of "bringing into the light" and associated with childbirth),

    Thank you but since she's now 24 it might be just a tad too late for the goddess of childbirth :-)
     
    or you could take Plutarch's suggestion that only the day after the Ides is truly unlucky because of the Roman defeat at the Allia.

    That's much more comforting :-)  Of course that makes me think about my son. how would you work out when the Ides in any particular month were - like June 1988?

    Flavia Lucilla Merula

    But I'll look around and see if I can find anything about it; of course, any one of our more scholarly types might know more  :)

    Vale,

    Cato





    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > Today - like every day that follows the Kalends, Ides, or Nones of a month
    > > - is a dies ater, or unlucky day.  One should try to avoid making journeys,
    > > starting new projects, or doing anything risky;
    > > certain deities, including Iuppiter and Ianus, should not be named.
    > > these days are ill-omened to begin any new project, and any new project
    > > would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of
    > > the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be
    > > performed.
    > >
    >
    > This intrigues me. If the second of every month (the day following the
    > Kalends) was regarded as unlucky. How did the Romans view someone who was
    > born on that day? Were they regarded as unucky? (My daughter was born on the
    > 2nd)
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >




    ------------------------------------

    Yahoo! Groups Links

    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/

    <*> Your email settings:
       Individual Email | Traditional

    <*> To change settings online go to:
       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/join
       (Yahoo! ID required)

    <*> To change settings via email:
       mailto:Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com
       mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

    <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
       Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
       http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70763 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Graeco,
     
    Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable proof, by the way.
    If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
     
    Vale,
     
    M•IVL•SEVERVS
    CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

    SENATOR
    CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICI
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70764 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salvete Severe Complutensisque;

    Just ignore them, they are trying to pick on Complutensis to avert the Quirites' attention from their own shameful behavior which was recently exposed..

    just a bunch of bullies, who want to get elected. So they are; making nice/ attacking the opposition
    vale
    Maior





    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Graeco,
    >
    > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > proof, by the way.
    > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    >
    > SENATOR
    > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70765 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    The evidence was already presented on this list long ago. Invoking the chimera of "solid, unbeatable proof" (something that ONLY exists in mathematics) is nothing but a rhetorical tactic to sideline and ignore the fact that the evidence as it is makes it extremely unlikely that it was not him. If you can't recognize that, then you are either ignorant or dishonest (or both); in either case, it is you who should keep your words to yourself.

    -Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Graeco,
    >
    > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > proof, by the way.
    > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    >
    > SENATOR
    > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70766 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    LOL oh yeah such shameful behavior is creating alternate accounts and posting as if you were a completely different person? Yep that is so honorable - Compy/sockpuppet sure shits skittles doesn't he?

    The Evidence has been submitted that in a court of law would convict him. The consuls are choosing to ignore this because they are either incompetent or corrupt..but most likely both.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete Severe Complutensisque;
    >
    > Just ignore them, they are trying to pick on Complutensis to avert the Quirites' attention from their own shameful behavior which was recently exposed..
    >
    > just a bunch of bullies, who want to get elected. So they are; making nice/ attacking the opposition
    > vale
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Graeco,
    > >
    > > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > > proof, by the way.
    > > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
    > >
    > > Vale,
    > >
    > > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    > >
    > > SENATOR
    > > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70767 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Present us evidence that he is NOT guilty.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Graeco,
    >
    > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > proof, by the way.
    > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    >
    > SENATOR
    > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70768 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius L. Sullae s.p.d.,

    > Present us evidence that he is NOT guilty.

    Why? It is stupid, it is evident that he is innocent except if you can proove his guilt.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70769 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
    Cato Lucillae Merulae sal.

    Salve!

    The Ides of Iunius are always on the 13th day of June, so the 14th of June is the day after the Ides. It can be designated "postridie Idus Iunius" or (more commonly) "ante diem XVIII Kalendas Quinctilis". In 1988 this was a Tuesday :)

    Vale,

    Cato



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > > Cato Lucillae Merulae sal.
    > >
    > > I think you could probably look at it two ways. You could offer prayers to
    > > Iuno Lucina asking Her protection for the child (She's the goddess of
    > > "bringing into the light" and associated with childbirth),
    >
    >
    > Thank you but since she's now 24 it might be just a tad too late for the
    > goddess of childbirth :-)
    >
    >
    > > or you could take Plutarch's suggestion that only the day after the Ides is
    > > truly unlucky because of the Roman defeat at the Allia.
    > >
    >
    > That's much more comforting :-) Of course that makes me think about my son.
    > how would you work out when the Ides in any particular month were - like
    > June 1988?
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >
    > >
    > > But I'll look around and see if I can find anything about it; of course,
    > > any one of our more scholarly types might know more :)
    > >
    > > Vale,
    > >
    > > Cato
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@>
    > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Today - like every day that follows the Kalends, Ides, or Nones of a
    > > month
    > > > > - is a dies ater, or unlucky day. One should try to avoid making
    > > journeys,
    > > > > starting new projects, or doing anything risky;
    > > > > certain deities, including Iuppiter and Ianus, should not be named.
    > > > > these days are ill-omened to begin any new project, and any new project
    > > > > would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance
    > > of
    > > > > the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be
    > > > > performed.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > This intrigues me. If the second of every month (the day following the
    > > > Kalends) was regarded as unlucky. How did the Romans view someone who was
    > > > born on that day? Were they regarded as unucky? (My daughter was born on
    > > the
    > > > 2nd)
    > > >
    > > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------------------
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70770 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    You're nothing more than a despicable bully, ignorant and dishonest, among some other characteristics... I won't bother to reply to you anymore.
    M•IVL•SEVERVS
    CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

    SENATOR
    CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICI
    On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:19 PM, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...> wrote:
     


    The evidence was already presented on this list long ago. Invoking the chimera of "solid, unbeatable proof" (something that ONLY exists in mathematics) is nothing but a rhetorical tactic to sideline and ignore the fact that the evidence as it is makes it extremely unlikely that it was not him. If you can't recognize that, then you are either ignorant or dishonest (or both); in either case, it is you who should keep your words to yourself.

    -Gualterus



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Graeco,
    >
    > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > proof, by the way.
    > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not guilty.
    >
    > Vale,
    >
    > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ
    >
    > SENATOR
    > CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICI
    >




    --

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70771 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD

    Salvete.

    Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it, and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.

    Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder. The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum, and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    At least have the dignity and honesty to say that the current government is not going to act on the evidence already presented - which is, of course the case, as the Senate has not been called contrary to consul Severus' clear promise to do so - simply because you don't want to. Don't pretend that you don't understand why the question remains.

    I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Valete,

    Cato



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    > C. Petronius L. Sullae s.p.d.,
    >
    > > Present us evidence that he is NOT guilty.
    >
    > Why? It is stupid, it is evident that he is innocent except if you can proove his guilt.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70772 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS PRAETOR!
    I request the praetors please;
    the ML cannot turn into the pit that the BA is. Please moderate those who need it.
    vale
    M. Hortensia Maior



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete.
    >
    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it, and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.
    >
    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder. The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum, and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.
    >
    > At least have the dignity and honesty to say that the current government is not going to act on the evidence already presented - which is, of course the case, as the Senate has not been called contrary to consul Severus' clear promise to do so - simply because you don't want to. Don't pretend that you don't understand why the question remains.
    >
    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Cato
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
    > >
    > > C. Petronius L. Sullae s.p.d.,
    > >
    > > > Present us evidence that he is NOT guilty.
    > >
    > > Why? It is stupid, it is evident that he is innocent except if you can proove his guilt.
    > >
    > > Vale.
    > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70773 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS PRAETOR!
    rory12001 <rory12001@...> writes:

    > I request the praetors please;

    Notice taken.

    CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70774 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-02
    Subject: Re: Nero's Cenatio Rotunda found on the Palatine
    M. Hortensia L. Liviae spd;
    thanks for posting this Livia, and the links, I enjoyed reading the article. Oh my, dining on a revolving platform, overlooking the urbs, Romans knew how to live. we could use that in our colonia:)
    optime vale
    Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
    >
    > Remains of Nero's "Cenatio rotunda", a revolving dining room, were found in the Palatine, under the Vigna Barberini (the garden part, for those who know the Palatine).
    >
    > Article here, in Italian: http://www.repubblica.it/2009/09/sezioni/arte/arte/larcan-spalla/larcan-spalla/larcan-spalla.html
    >
    > Photo gallery here: http://www.repubblica.it/2006/08/gallerie/spettacoliecultura/scoperta-nerone/1.html
    >
    > The room is mentioned by Suetonius in his biography of nero, as a room of the Domus Aurea which revolved day and night imitating earth movement.
    > What you see in the photos is a tower which was probably part of the mechanism: the room itself was probably a light wooden structure, and it revolved with a hydraulic mechanism.
    > It was on top of the Palatine hill and afforded a beautiful panoramic view.
    >
    > Excavations are going to continue because there is a lot more to be found.
    >
    > Optime valete,
    > Livia
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70775 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,

    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,

    How do you know what I know?

    > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.

    Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing. Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave the form.

    But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that controversy.

    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder.

    If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human Right.

    > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum,

    It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a progiciel of hacking. In France, the address IP is not a sign of reliability at all. Some hackers can capture them.

    > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false evidences? What kind of accusator are you?

    Quote me the NR law which is infringed.

    > At least have the dignity and honesty

    They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you, without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".

    You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts, first take lessons of.

    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.

    Vale in mala cruce.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70776 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    You can call me all the names you want, but it doesn't change the facts about the evidence--evidence which you seem to be incapable of evaluating honestly.

    -Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, M•IVL• SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@...> wrote:
    >
    > You're nothing more than a despicable bully, ignorant and dishonest, among
    > some other characteristics... I won't bother to reply to you anymore.
    > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    >
    > SENATOR
    > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:19 PM, gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The evidence was already presented on this list long ago. Invoking the
    > > chimera of "solid, unbeatable proof" (something that ONLY exists in
    > > mathematics) is nothing but a rhetorical tactic to sideline and ignore the
    > > fact that the evidence as it is makes it extremely unlikely that it was not
    > > him. If you can't recognize that, then you are either ignorant or dishonest
    > > (or both); in either case, it is you who should keep your words to yourself.
    > >
    > > -Gualterus
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, M•IVL•
    > > SEVERVS <m.iul.severus.consul@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Salve Graeco,
    > > >
    > > > Please inform us who are you to decide that M. Curiatius Complutensis is
    > > > guilty, and share the proof for that with us. I mean solid, unbeatable
    > > > proof, by the way.
    > > > If you don't have any, you'd better shut up.
    > > > And if you do have whatever you think is a proof, submit it to the proper
    > > > authorities. You are nobody to decide who is guilty, or who is not
    > > guilty.
    > > >
    > > > Vale,
    > > >
    > > > M•IVL•SEVERVS
    > > > CONSVL•NOVƕROMÆ
    > > >
    > > > SENATOR
    > > > CONSVL•PROVINCIƕMEXICI
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70777 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C'est fort amusant et vraiment juste "Tartuffe." Dexter, cet homme, il parle francais; dites ce que vous plaiser;-)
    optime vale
    Maior

    --- . In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".
    >
    >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70778 From: Colin Brodd Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Gaius Tullius Valerianus Catoni omnibusque civibus S.P.D.

    Actually, I would like to respectfully re-iterate Dexter's question: "Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken . . . ? . . .  Quote me the NR law which is infringed."

    Dexter has a point. The evidence seems pretty convincing to any reasonable citizen that Complutensis employed what is referred to as a "sockpuppet." The question is - so what? If he did so, it is morally reprehensible, certainly, to be so dishonest and cowardly. But what actual crime was committed? I am no expert in Nova Roman law, I freely admit - i don't know what he would have done wrong (legally speaking), had he done this. 

    Tell us why any action is required by anyone regarding this matter. Because I honestly don't know. I know that it looks bad, but looking bad is not a crime. Heck, sullying the office of the consul with dishonor is probably not a crime, if it should be proved that Complutensis did so. 

    Once again, everyone, a plea for some reason and sanity. Many believe Complutensis employed a "sockpuppet." Many think that the evidence that he did so is overwhelming - I personally think it is convincing prima facie - but that means nothing except that he loses face in the eyes of those citizens who believe the charge. And not everyone does - some because they don't understand the evidence, some because they haven't seen the evidence, a few because they don't find the evidence convincing, and not a few because of their personal loyalty to Complutensis or to the office of the consul. But those of you who keep repeating the charge of "sockpuppetry" - fine! Tell us what the crime is? What is the charge, besides moral turpitude?

    I do not defend Complutensis of the charge of "sockpuppetry." I personally am convinced by the evidence presented - he has not effectively refuted it in any way! But I'm unaware of any actual, criminal charge associated with it. Can anyone answer this?

    Valete omnes!


    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:45 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
     

    C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,



    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,

    How do you know what I know?

    > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.

    Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing. Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave the form.

    But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that controversy.

    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder.

    If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human Right.


    > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum,

    It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a progiciel of hacking. In France, the address IP is not a sign of reliability at all. Some hackers can capture them.

    > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false evidences? What kind of accusator are you?

    Quote me the NR law which is infringed.


    > At least have the dignity and honesty

    They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you, without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".

    You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts, first take lessons of.

    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.

    Vale in mala cruce.
    C. Petronius Dexter




    --
    "Qua(e) patres difficillime
    adepti sunt nolite
    turpiter relinquere" -
    Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
    (Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)

    Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70779 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    Cato Lucillae Merulae sal.

    Salve!

    The Ides of Iunius are always on the 13th day of June, so the 14th of June is the day after the Ides.

    Thank you so much. He's safe. He missed it :-)

    Cheers
    Merula

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70780 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve,

    I don't think any law was broken. Rather, I think it was a matter of morality and honor. If a consuls does this he has dishonored his office and demonstrates a terrible set of morals. It doesn't mean he should be immediately removed from office, however, but he is disgraced. I do think Complutensis should have resigned in order to demonstrate his contrition, to help restore the possibility of trusting him. At the very least, had he admitted to his behavior and asked for forgiveness then I think most people would have offered forgiveness and the silly episode would have melted away pretty quickly. Unfortunately, he dramatically compounded his fraud with lies, denying that he did it and inventing stories about hacking.

    Vale,

    Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...> wrote:
    >
    > Gaius Tullius Valerianus Catoni omnibusque civibus S.P.D.
    > Actually, I would like to respectfully re-iterate Dexter's question: "Guilt
    > about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken . . . ? . . . Quote me the
    > NR law which is infringed."
    >
    > Dexter has a point. The evidence seems pretty convincing to any reasonable
    > citizen that Complutensis employed what is referred to as a "sockpuppet."
    > The question is - so what? If he did so, it is morally reprehensible,
    > certainly, to be so dishonest and cowardly. But what actual crime was
    > committed? I am no expert in Nova Roman law, I freely admit - i don't know
    > what he would have done wrong (legally speaking), had he done this.
    >
    > Tell us why any action is required by anyone regarding this matter. Because
    > I honestly don't know. I know that it *looks bad, but looking bad is not a
    > crime. Heck, sullying the office of the consul with dishonor is probably not
    > a crime, if it should be proved that Complutensis did so. *
    >
    > Once again, everyone, a plea for some reason and sanity. Many believe
    > Complutensis employed a "sockpuppet." Many think that the evidence that he
    > did so is overwhelming - I personally think it is convincing *prima facie -
    > *but that means nothing except that he loses face in the eyes of those
    > citizens who believe the charge. And not everyone does - some because they
    > don't understand the evidence, some because they haven't seen the evidence,
    > a few because they don't find the evidence convincing, and not a few because
    > of their personal loyalty to Complutensis or to the office of the consul.
    > But those of you who keep repeating the charge of "sockpuppetry" - fine!
    > Tell us what the crime is? What is the charge, besides moral turpitude?
    >
    > I do not defend Complutensis of the charge of "sockpuppetry." I personally
    > am convinced by the evidence presented - he has not effectively refuted it
    > in any way! But I'm unaware of any actual, criminal charge associated with
    > it. Can anyone answer this?
    >
    > Valete omnes!
    >
    >
    > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:45 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,
    > >
    > >
    > > > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,
    > >
    > > How do you know what I know?
    > >
    > > > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and
    > > disingenuous stance.
    > >
    > > Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It
    > > is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing.
    > > Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English
    > > practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I
    > > am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his
    > > native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave
    > > the form.
    > >
    > > But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so
    > > if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal
    > > weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel
    > > to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we
    > > will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that
    > > controversy.
    > >
    > > > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention
    > > Deficit Disorder.
    > >
    > > If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of
    > > innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human
    > > Right.
    > >
    > > > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this
    > > Forum,
    > >
    > > It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of
    > > addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our
    > > Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this
    > > law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a
    > > progiciel of hacking. In France, the address IP is not a sign of reliability
    > > at all. Some hackers can capture them.
    > >
    > > > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed
    > > startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the
    > > extreme.
    > >
    > > Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false
    > > evidences? What kind of accusator are you?
    > >
    > > Quote me the NR law which is infringed.
    > >
    > > > At least have the dignity and honesty
    > >
    > > They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you,
    > > without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back
    > > alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the
    > > shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In
    > > French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".
    > >
    > > You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts,
    > > first take lessons of.
    > >
    > > > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.
    > >
    > > Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.
    > >
    > > Vale in mala cruce.
    > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > "Qua(e) patres difficillime
    > adepti sunt nolite
    > turpiter relinquere" -
    > Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
    > (Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)
    >
    > Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="
    > http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">
    > http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70781 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius M. Hortensiæ s.p.d.,

    > C'est fort amusant et vraiment juste "Tartuffe."

    Yes, since the play of Moliere this name is given to the hypocritical moralists. And, of course, this play was forbidden by the Church. This religious association being full of "Tartuffe". The king Louis XIV, in despite of his catholic faith, allowed Moliere to perform publicly this famous play which had a big success in his time and has now too.

    > Dexter, cet homme, il parle francais; dites ce que vous plaiser;-)
    "dites ce qu'il vous plaît".

    Il parle peut-être français, mais je pourrais devenir abscons en utilisant des tournures de phrase et un vocabulaire compris uniquement par ceux dont le français est la langue maternelle. Ce ne serait pas juste d'infliger à Caton ce supplice. En outre seulement le peu de citoyens de Nova Roma parlant depuis leur naissance le français goûteraient les astuces, l'humour et les piques... nous sommes trop peu nombreux pour obliger la majorité des citoyens à suivre des méandres stylistiques et rhétoriques qu'il faudrait sans cesse expliquer ou traduire.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70782 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cn. Lentulus C. Tullio sal.


    Valeriane Germanice, I'm very impressed with your balanced, neutral, benevolent and honourable approach, and I ask my fellow citizens to meditate about his and Petronius' thoughts.

    As for my opinion, I can't and will not judge anybody who has not been officially proven guilty of something. I know VERY WELL that Complutensis looks very suspicious, and it is very logical to suppose he did it. But, on the other hand, as one who knows him better and has heard his personal story behind the scenes, I am giving him the benefit of doubt. There is no reason to me not to believe him since he was always fair, sincere, honest and honorable towards me. I am morally owing him the benefit of doubt: this is why I belive him (or at leat doubt the charges) until a very manifest evidence comes up.

    On the other hand, if he would be proven guilty of sockpuppetting, I would indeed find it a cowardly and disgusting act from his part, but I would not think that it is a crime, or it has to have any legal consequences ever. It would be just simply ridiculous.

    So I can not understand why this whole issue is so important for some here...

    This is my personal opinion, but C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus have said the same but much more eloquently: read again his thoughts:



    --- Sab 3/10/09, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...> ha scritto:

    Da: Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...>
    Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Data: Sabato 3 ottobre 2009, 09:49

     

    Gaius Tullius Valerianus Catoni omnibusque civibus S.P.D.


    Actually, I would like to respectfully re-iterate Dexter's question: "Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken . . . ? . . .  Quote me the NR law which is infringed."

    Dexter has a point. The evidence seems pretty convincing to any reasonable citizen that Complutensis employed what is referred to as a "sockpuppet." The question is - so what? If he did so, it is morally reprehensible, certainly, to be so dishonest and cowardly. But what actual crime was committed? I am no expert in Nova Roman law, I freely admit - i don't know what he would have done wrong (legally speaking), had he done this. 

    Tell us why any action is required by anyone regarding this matter. Because I honestly don't know. I know that it looks bad, but looking bad is not a crime. Heck, sullying the office of the consul with dishonor is probably not a crime, if it should be proved that Complutensis did so. 

    Once again, everyone, a plea for some reason and sanity. Many believe Complutensis employed a "sockpuppet." Many think that the evidence that he did so is overwhelming - I personally think it is convincing prima facie - but that means nothing except that he loses face in the eyes of those citizens who believe the charge. And not everyone does - some because they don't understand the evidence, some because they haven't seen the evidence, a few because they don't find the evidence convincing, and not a few because of their personal loyalty to Complutensis or to the office of the consul. But those of you who keep repeating the charge of "sockpuppetry" - fine! Tell us what the crime is? What is the charge, besides moral turpitude?

    I do not defend Complutensis of the charge of "sockpuppetry." I personally am convinced by the evidence presented - he has not effectively refuted it in any way! But I'm unaware of any actual, criminal charge associated with it. Can anyone answer this?

    Valete omnes!


    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:45 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@yahoo. fr> wrote:
     

    C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,



    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,

    How do you know what I know?

    > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.

    Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing. Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave the form.

    But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that controversy.

    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder.

    If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human Right.


    > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum,

    It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a progiciel of hacking. In France, the address IP is not a sign of reliability at all. Some hackers can capture them.

    > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false evidences? What kind of accusator are you?

    Quote me the NR law which is infringed.


    > At least have the dignity and honesty

    They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you, without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".

    You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts, first take lessons of.

    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.

    Vale in mala cruce.
    C. Petronius Dexter




    --
    "Qua(e) patres difficillime
    adepti sunt nolite
    turpiter relinquere" -
    Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
    (Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)

    Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="http://www.goodread s.com/profile/ Valerianus? utm_source= email_widget">http://www.goodread s.com/profile/ Valerianus</a>

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70783 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Re: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     A. Tullia Scholastica C. Tullio Valeriano Cornelio Gualtero Graeco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

        Qua de causá nuntios mercatorum ignotorum ordinatro consulis senioris missos accepi?  Non puto eum talia misisse.  Mihi quidem sat de usurpatione computatorum alienorum dictum est; et numeri interretiales inscriptionum usum proprium non vincunt, non probant.  Censeo aut alium machinam occupasse aut numeros communes inter multos fuisse; fortasse et illa quondam Marcella pupa erat.  Peritiam technicam habet.  Equidem illis angiportús credere nolim nisi indicium certum habeant.  Notandum est illam Doram Smith, quae nuper epistulam huc misit, pupam esse, e multis hominibus compositam, nec talem nobis solis notam.  

        Valete.  
     

    Gaius Tullius Valerianus Catoni omnibusque civibus S.P.D.

    Actually, I would like to respectfully re-iterate Dexter's question: "Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken . . . ? . . .  Quote me the NR law which is infringed."

    Dexter has a point. The evidence seems pretty convincing to any reasonable citizen that Complutensis employed what is referred to as a "sockpuppet." The question is - so what? If he did so, it is morally reprehensible, certainly, to be so dishonest and cowardly. But what actual crime was committed? I am no expert in Nova Roman law, I freely admit - i don't know what he would have done wrong (legally speaking), had he done this. 

    Tell us why any action is required by anyone regarding this matter. Because I honestly don't know. I know that it looks bad, but looking bad is not a crime. Heck, sullying the office of the consul with dishonor is probably not a crime, if it should be proved that Complutensis did so. 

    Once again, everyone, a plea for some reason and sanity. Many believe Complutensis employed a "sockpuppet." Many think that the evidence that he did so is overwhelming - I personally think it is convincing prima facie - but that means nothing except that he loses face in the eyes of those citizens who believe the charge. And not everyone does - some because they don't understand the evidence, some because they haven't seen the evidence, a few because they don't find the evidence convincing, and not a few because of their personal loyalty to Complutensis or to the office of the consul. But those of you who keep repeating the charge of "sockpuppetry" - fine! Tell us what the crime is? What is the charge, besides moral turpitude?

    I do not defend Complutensis of the charge of "sockpuppetry." I personally am convinced by the evidence presented - he has not effectively refuted it in any way! But I'm unaware of any actual, criminal charge associated with it. Can anyone answer this?

    Valete omnes!


    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:45 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
     
     
     

    C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,



    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,

    How do you know what I know?

    > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and disingenuous stance.

    Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing. Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave the form.

    But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that controversy.

    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention Deficit Disorder.

    If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human Right.


    > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this Forum,

    It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a progiciel of hacking. In France, the address IP is not a sign of reliability at all. Some hackers can capture them.

    > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false evidences? What kind of accusator are you?

    Quote me the NR law which is infringed.

     
    > At least have the dignity and honesty

    They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you, without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".

    You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts, first take lessons of.   

    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.

    Vale in mala cruce.
    C. Petronius Dexter


      
        



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70784 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Ave,

    > I don't think any law was broken. Rather, I think it was a matter of morality and honor.

    Ok. So if it is a matter of morality and honor, and if the consul had said, as he did, that he never used a sockpuppet, it is also moral and honorable to believe in the words of the consul.

    I believe in him because I do not understand the interest of this sockpuppetry. Cui bono? In which interest Complutensis could be Pasquinus? To crack some jokes on Sulla and his BA buddies?

    In this case, if he did this sockpuppetry, we also can suppose that it was to remove the hight consular dignity from the BA sewer. So in using a honorable sockpuppetry.

    > If a consuls does this he has dishonored his office and demonstrates a terrible set of morals.

    Not at all. Zorro, I take a US TV example, is masked too, but it was not masked by lack of morality neither honor. I thought to Zorro, but you have also Spiderman and others masked righters of wrongs... ;o)

    So to be masked is not always a sign of disgrace or evil. Above all if any law forbids it.

    But actually I do not think that our consul used this artifice, he is such honnest that I do not believe him walking masked. He had none interest to do that.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70785 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    If you can't understand the motivation for why he did this then you have a very poor imagination. But, in fact I don't think you have a hard time understanding why he could do it; rather, I think you're a partisan cog. You aren't interested in the truth--you simply want to defend Complutensis at all cost, no matter what the probabilities or possibilities. I have already seen this attitude from you when you ignorantly responded to me on the issue of Job and Hebrew--you prefer to oppose and deny simply based on partisan preference instead of evaluating the truth.

    -Gualterus

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    > Ave,
    >
    > > I don't think any law was broken. Rather, I think it was a matter of morality and honor.
    >
    > Ok. So if it is a matter of morality and honor, and if the consul had said, as he did, that he never used a sockpuppet, it is also moral and honorable to believe in the words of the consul.
    >
    > I believe in him because I do not understand the interest of this sockpuppetry. Cui bono? In which interest Complutensis could be Pasquinus? To crack some jokes on Sulla and his BA buddies?
    >
    > In this case, if he did this sockpuppetry, we also can suppose that it was to remove the hight consular dignity from the BA sewer. So in using a honorable sockpuppetry.
    >
    > > If a consuls does this he has dishonored his office and demonstrates a terrible set of morals.
    >
    > Not at all. Zorro, I take a US TV example, is masked too, but it was not masked by lack of morality neither honor. I thought to Zorro, but you have also Spiderman and others masked righters of wrongs... ;o)
    >
    > So to be masked is not always a sign of disgrace or evil. Above all if any law forbids it.
    >
    > But actually I do not think that our consul used this artifice, he is such honnest that I do not believe him walking masked. He had none interest to do that.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70786 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    In a message dated 10/2/2009 1:51:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jfarnoud94@... writes:
    Why? It is stupid, it is evident that he is innocent except if you can proove his guilt.
     
     
    Exactly Dexter how is he innocent?  Because he says so?  I am more interested in your comment about him not breaking any NR Law.  He broke Yahoo's laws.  You cannot masquerade as someone else on a Yahoo owned list.   It is spelled out very plainly in English.  That is the law he broke.  Our Constitution stipulates you must follow the marconational law.  So in that way he defied the Constitution.
     
    The man who busted him is a techo geek.  He found the Consul posted from his house and work both as the Consul and this fake citizen.  Another techno geek checked his work   The electronic trail is there for all to see.  Understanding it however is a lot harder.  It was our Spanish Consul's bad luck that the person while now a classic scholar once was in IT work and was a tech.  I suspect this was why the consul did it, he felt no one would be clever enough to notice it.   
     
    When the Senate convenes about this, and Audens reinstatement, and our missing website, we will be ready to present evidence.
     
    Q. Fabius Maximus     
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70787 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Q. Fabio s.p.d.,

    > Exactly Dexter how is he innocent? Because he says so?

    No, he is a priori innocent. As you are, as I am. To be guilty, somebody must to be accused before judges and judged guilty by a lawcourt, after equitable lawsuit, in which the accusators and the defensors had a contradictory debate about his guilt.

    But, as I say "What NR law is broken?" to have a lawsuit against the consul.

    > I am more interested in your comment about him not breaking any NR Law. He broke Yahoo's laws. You cannot masquerade as someone else on a Yahoo owned list.

    If I am not wrong, the Yahoo list named "novaroma", id est our main list, is a moderated list. So the pseudo or nickname pasquinus, if it was able to write on the list, was accepted by the administrators of this list. So the Yahoo rules were not broken.

    > It is spelled out very plainly in English. That is the law he broke.

    Quote me this law.

    > Our Constitution stipulates you must follow the marconational law. So in that way he defied the Constitution.

    Yahoo is not a macronation. A Yahoo law is it not rather a yahoo rule?

    > The man who busted him is a techo geek. He found the Consul posted from his house and work both as the Consul and this fake citizen.

    He did not find, he supposed.

    > Another techno geek checked his work. The electronic trail is there for all to see. Understanding it however is a lot harder. It was our Spanish Consul's bad luck that the person while now a classic scholar once was in IT work and was a tech.

    I do not understand the interest of that. Why do you call him Spanish Consul? Do you think that a Spanish consul was naive and thought that nobody among the NR citizens was able to discover a... a what? What is the problem? Following an electronic trail?

    > I suspect this was why the consul did it, he felt no one would be
    > clever enough to notice it.

    Do you think that the consul is an idiot? I am sure that he knew, even if he is Spanish, that some NR citizens and, of course, the current and former araneari magistri can follow an electronic trail.

    > When the Senate convenes about this, and Audens reinstatement, and our missing website, we will be ready to present evidence.

    "We" as I can see the consul has a conjuration against him.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70788 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: a.d. V Non.Oct.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

    "To their religious performances were added the pleasures of wine and
    feasting, to allure a greater number of proselytes. When wine,
    lascivious discourse, night, and the intercourse of the sexes had
    extinguished every sentiment of modesty, then debaucheries of every
    kind began to be practiced, as every person found at hand that sort of
    enjoyment to which he was disposed by the passion predominant in his
    nature. Nor were they confined to one species of vice - the
    promiscuous intercourse of free-born men and women; but from this
    store-house of villainy proceeded false witnesses, counterfeit seals,
    false evidences, and pretended discoveries. From the same place, too,
    proceeded poison and secret murders, so that in some cases, not even
    the bodies could be found for burial. Many of their audacious deeds
    were brought about by treachery, but most of them by force; it served
    to conceal the violence, that, on account of the loud shouting, and
    the noise of drums and cymbals, none of the cries uttered by the
    persons suffering violence or murder could be heard abroad.

    The infection of this mischief, like that from the contagion of
    disease, spread from Etruria to Rome; where, the size of the city
    affording greater room for such evils, and more means of concealment,
    cloaked it at first; but information of it was at length brought to
    the consul, Postumius. There was a freedwoman called Hispala Fecenia,
    a noted courtesan who gave a full account of the origin of the
    mysteries. 'At first,' she said, 'those rites were performed by women.
    No man used to be admitted. They had three stated days in the year on
    which persons were initiated among the Bacchanalians, in the daytime.
    The matrons used to be appointed priestesses, in rotation. Paculla
    Minia, a Campanian, when priestess, made an alteration in every
    particular, as if by the direction of the gods. For she first
    introduced men, who were her own sons, Minucius and Herrenius, both
    surnamed Cerrinius; changed the time of celebration, from day to
    night; and, instead of three days in the year, appointed five days of
    initiation, in each month.

    From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
    intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
    added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
    practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
    each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
    dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
    sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
    of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
    predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
    the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
    blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber; where, dipping their torches
    in the water, they drew them up again with the flame unextinguished,
    being composed of native sulphur and charcoal. They said that those
    men were carried off by the gods, whom the machines laid hold of and
    dragged from their view into secret caves. These were such as refused
    to take the oath of the society, or to associate in their crimes, or
    to submit to defilement. This number was exceedingly great now, almost
    a second state in themselves, and among them were many men and women
    of noble families. During the last two years it had been a rule, that
    no person above the age of twenty should be initiated; for they sought
    for people of such age as made them more liable to suffer deception
    and personal abuse.'" - Livy, History of Rome 39.8-16 [ed.]


    "The consuls Quintus Marcius son of Lucius and Spurius Postumius son
    of Lucius consulted the senate on the Nones of October in the Temple
    of Bellona. Present at the writing of the decree were Marcus Claudius
    son of Marcus, Lucius Valerius son of Publius, and Quintus Minucius
    son of Gaius. Concerning the rites of Bacchus among the federated
    peoples they decreed that the following edict be made:

    'Let none of them be minded to have a shrine of Bacchus. If there are
    any who say that they must needs have a shrine of Bacchus, they must
    come to the Urban Praetor at Rome and, when their case has been heard,
    our senate must make a decision on this, provided that not fewer than
    one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed. Let
    no man, whether Roman citizen or Latin ally or other ally, be minded
    to go to a meeting of Bacchantes, unless they have gone to the Urban
    Praetor and he has authorised it in accordance with a decision of the
    senate, provided that not fewer than one hundred senators were present
    when the matter was discussed.'

    They decreed:

    'Let no man be a priest. Let no-one, man or woman, be a master. Let
    none of them be minded to keep a common fund. Let no-one be minded to
    make any man or woman an official or a temporary official. Henceforth
    let no-one be minded to conspire, collude, plot or make vows in common
    among themselves or to pledge loyalty to each other. Let none of them
    be minded to hold sacred rites in secret. Let none of them be minded
    to hold sacred rites in public or in private or outside the city,
    unless they have gone to the Urban Praetor and he has authorised it in
    accordance with a decision of the senate, provided that not more than
    one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed.'

    They decreed:

    'Let no group of more than five people in all, counting both men and
    women, be minded to hold sacred rites; and let no more than two men or
    three women be minded to be present, unless authorised by the Urban
    Praetor and the senate as above.'

    You are to publicize these decrees at a public meeting over a period
    of not less than three market days, and you must keep in mind the
    decree of the senate, which was as follows: 'If there are any who
    transgress against the decrees set out above, a capital charge is to
    be brought against them'. You are to engrave this on a bronze tablet
    (this also the senate decreed) and are to give orders that it be set
    it up where it can most easily be read. And you are to see to it that
    such shrines of Bacchus as now exist (if any) are disbanded in
    accordance with the above decree within ten days from the time when
    you receive these tablets, unless they contain any genuinely sacred
    thing. In the territory of the Teuri." - SENATUS CONSULTUM DE
    BACCANALIBUS, 186 BC

    Today was the celebration of the Bacchanalia until outlawed by the
    Senate. The Bacchanalia were wild and mystic festivals of the Greek
    god Bacchus. Introduced into Rome from lower Italy by way of Etruria
    (c. 200 BC), the Bacchanalia were originally held in secret and
    attended by women only. The festivals occurred on three days of the
    year in the grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill. Later, admission
    to the rites was extended to men and celebrations took place five
    times a month. According to Livy, the extension happened in an era
    when the leader of the Bacchus cult was Paculla Annia - though it is
    now believed that some men had participated before that.

    Livy informs us that the rapid spread of the cult, which he claims
    indulged in all kinds of crimes and political conspiracies at its
    nocturnal meetings, led in 186 BC to a decree of the Senate — the
    Senatus consultum de Baccanalibus, inscribed on a bronze
    tablet discovered in Apulia in Southern Italy (AD 1640), now at the
    Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna — by which the Bacchanalia were
    prohibited throughout all Italy except in certain special cases which
    must be approved specifically by the Senate. In spite of the severe
    punishment inflicted on those found in violation of this decree (Livy
    claims there were more executions than imprisonment), the Bacchanalia
    survived in Southern Italy long past the repression.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70789 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Potitus Lentulo Tullio SPD.

     

    I am very pleased at the tone of your posts.

     

    Lentule, I agree that Complutensis should be proven guilty of creating a sockpuppet. The best way to do this is to start with an investigation into the evidence. Much evidence exists, but it needs to be brought forward in an investigation. This investiagtion must be as unbiased as possible, and as transparent as possible so that all citizens can judge for themselves. This is precisely the kind of investigation that I hoped to see from Consul Severus. It is also precisely the kind of investigation that I proposed to Consul Severus. In my opiniion, a formal, open investiagtion is needed to assemble the evidence.

     

    Tullie, the interesting thing about this situation is that it does not involve some obscure or recondite point of Nova Roma law. This situation is an ethics violation, based on the violation of the Yahoo terms of service (TOS) and general Internet etiquette. When anyone joins the Main List, he or she agrees to follow the TOS, so the creator of Pasquinus violated his honor by breaking his word to follow the TOS. By creating a sockpuppet, he disturbs the level of trust which we (all of us here on the Main List) must have that we are who we claim to be. A sockpuppet disturbs public discourse.

     

    “Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman” is a US military term that applies here. Such conduct “seriously compromises” the character of the person who created the sockpuppet. Even in a small organization like Nova Roma, we do not expect our elected magistrates to engage in such puerile activities. That someone (and the evidence points to Complutensis) created this sockpuppet shows at least a lack of judgment and at most a flawed character.

     

    Dexter has pointed out that wearing a mask is not always a bad thing (he uses Zorro as an example). I agree, but look at what Pasquinus wrote. He did not use his mask as a nom de plume so that he could make substantive comments on Nova Roma and the controversy that was raging at the time (the election of Modianus). Instead, he used Pasquinus as a voice to express his rage and vitriol.

     

    Furthermore, the ethics violation continues. When Complutensis was accused of being Pasquinus, his response was laughable: that both his computers had been hacked. That he has not provided any proof of this only compounds the lie.

     

    I have volunteered to join with another citizen to lead an investigation in this matter. So far, no one has stepped up to join me.

     

    Potitus

     

     

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
    Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 1:30 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Cn. Lentulus C. Tullio sal.


    Valeriane Germanice, I'm very impressed with your balanced, neutral, benevolent and honourable approach, and I ask my fellow citizens to meditate about his and Petronius' thoughts.

    As for my opinion, I can't and will not judge anybody who has not been officially proven guilty of something. I know VERY WELL that Complutensis looks very suspicious, and it is very logical to suppose he did it. But, on the other hand, as one who knows him better and has heard his personal story behind the scenes, I am giving him the benefit of doubt. There is no reason to me not to believe him since he was always fair, sincere, honest and honorable towards me. I am morally owing him the benefit of doubt: this is why I belive him (or at leat doubt the charges) until a very manifest evidence comes up.

    On the other hand, if he would be proven guilty of sockpuppetting, I would indeed find it a cowardly and disgusting act from his part, but I would not think that it is a crime, or it has to have any legal consequences ever. It would be just simply ridiculous.

    So I can not understand why this whole issue is so important for some here...

    This is my personal opinion, but C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus have said the same but much more eloquently: read again his thoughts:



    --- Sab 3/10/09, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@ gmail.com> ha scritto:


    Da: Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@ gmail.com>
    Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    A: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Data: Sabato 3 ottobre 2009, 09:49

     

    Gaius Tullius Valerianus Catoni omnibusque civibus S.P.D.

     

    Actually, I would like to respectfully re-iterate Dexter's question: "Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken . . . ? . . .  Quote me the NR law which is infringed."

     

    Dexter has a point. The evidence seems pretty convincing to any reasonable citizen that Complutensis employed what is referred to as a "sockpuppet. " The question is - so what? If he did so, it is morally reprehensible, certainly, to be so dishonest and cowardly. But what actual crime was committed? I am no expert in Nova Roman law, I freely admit - i don't know what he would have done wrong (legally speaking), had he done this. 

     

    Tell us why any action is required by anyone regarding this matter. Because I honestly don't know. I know that it looks bad, but looking bad is not a crime. Heck, sullying the office of the consul with dishonor is probably not a crime, if it should be proved that Complutensis did so. 

     

    Once again, everyone, a plea for some reason and sanity. Many believe Complutensis employed a "sockpuppet. " Many think that the evidence that he did so is overwhelming - I personally think it is convincing prima facie - but that means nothing except that he loses face in the eyes of those citizens who believe the charge. And not everyone does - some because they don't understand the evidence, some because they haven't seen the evidence, a few because they don't find the evidence convincing, and not a few because of their personal loyalty to Complutensis or to the office of the consul. But those of you who keep repeating the charge of "sockpuppetry" - fine! Tell us what the crime is? What is the charge, besides moral turpitude?

     

    I do not defend Complutensis of the charge of "sockpuppetry. " I personally am convinced by the evidence presented - he has not effectively refuted it in any way! But I'm unaware of any actual, criminal charge associated with it. Can anyone answer this?

     

    Valete omnes!

     

    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:45 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@yahoo. fr> wrote:

     

    C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio catoni salutem dicit,



    > Petronius Dexter, this is bullshit, pure and simple, and you *know* it,

    How do you know what I know?


    > and I am embarrassed for you that you would attempt such a puerile and
    disingenuous stance.

    Lol. You are not embarrassed by my position that you qualify as puerile. It is the evidence that your embarrassing is just a rhetorical embarrassing. Against me you can use many things as rhetoric because of my lack of English practice. So I beg the attention of the readers. I am not English native, I am not able to use, as Cato does, English rhetoric and the just words of his native language. So I beg your attention to catch the content and to leave the form.

    But if Cato wants to struggle with me, he has to admit an equal battle, so if he wants to discuss by controversy with me, we both must have equal weapons. So I am not so cruel to impose him a French answer as he is cruel to me in using English attack. Both we will have equal weapons if both we will use foreign language. So I propose him to use Latin for that controversy.


    > Please don't act as if we are stupid or ignorant children with Attention
    Deficit Disorder.

    If you think that about me, it is because I am right. The presumption of innocence is not a children deficit, it is the base, the bottom of the Human Right.



    > The evidence was very clearly presented and full demonstrated in this
    Forum,

    It was not evidences of guilt. It was evidences of not reliability of addresses IP. A thing known by our lawyers. Frédéric Mitterrand, our Minister of the Culture, to avoid the illicit downloading cannot obtain this law because nobody can proove that the address IP was not capture by a progiciel of hacking. In France , the address IP is not a sign of reliability at all. Some hackers can capture them.


    > and to pretend that somehow you've forgotten it or have unearthed
    startling new evidence which says it was *not* him is dishonest in the extreme.

    Guilt about which law? Which Nova Roman law is broken by those false evidences? What kind of accusator are you?

    Quote me the NR law which is infringed.



    > At least have the dignity and honesty

    They are my native attributes. I am embarrassed that a man like you, without honesty and dignity, a man who swims in the cloaca of the back alley, a man who prefers the back alley to the freeway, a man of the shadows... wants to be a teacher of the good conducts, a quite moralist. In French we call this kind of men: "Tartuffe".

    You have no morals, so if you want to learn somebody the good conducts, first take lessons of.


    > I can stomach basic, pure arrogance; I cannot stand blatant dishonesty.

    Lol. It is why you are a customer of the back alley sewer.

    Vale in mala cruce.
    C. Petronius Dexter




    --
    "Qua(e) patres difficillime
    adepti sunt nolite
    turpiter relinquere" -
    Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
    ( Bradford Monument , Plymouth , MA )

    Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="http://www.goodread s.com/profile/ Valerianus? utm_source= email_widget">http://www.goodread s.com/profile/ Valerianus</a>

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70790 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    M. Hortensia C. Petronio spd;
    ah I see the entire BA crowd is out today, making conspiracies to deflect attention. Graecus, Maximus, Potitius, etc..

    This is typical, they think the quirites are stupid, [yes they do] and if they make a big fuss, will distract them from their low behavior.

    But to see Gualterus, who so sweetly maligns Regulus, or Fabius Maximus, who rubbishes the Chief Vestal, all at the BA, talk about reputation and honour is - well a treat.


    this is why they kicked me out, as I'd be posting here all they trash they talk, behind everyone's backs.....

    My biggest Tartuffe moment is to see Cato posting the calendar; didn't he say he'd leave Nova Roma if proven a liar;-)

    optime vale
    Maior




    ---
    >
    > "We" as I can see the consul has a conjuration against him.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70791 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: "Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)
    L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.

    I'd like to remind everybody that saying something is "proof" doesn't make it proof. Just like saying something is blue doesn't make it blue.

    Of course, there is a party of people here who think that if they repeat something long enough it will become "truth".

    In fact hijacking of IP addresses has become so common that, as Dexter reminded, IP addresses are not accepted as proof of identity in French courts.

    The fact that IP addresses are accepted as proof of identity in US courts at most proves that the US justice system is a bit more obsolete than the French one, or at least it proves that the matter is controversial and interpreted differently in different countries.

    Of course, there is also the matter of "guilt" which is such only if laws have been broken.

    As it happens, no Nova Roma laws have been broken, and Yahoo is not a macronation.
    If Yahoo TOS have been broken, it is up to Yahoo to act, and not up to us. The moderators work to the best of their abilities in order to prevent breaking of Yahoo TOS. If sometimes a violation is not immediately identifiable they cannot be held responsible and I don't think Yahoo would spend the energy to proceed to an investigation even if the moderators' failure was reported.

    Complutensis has at least as convincing "proof" that his computers have been hacked. If he hasn't decided to make it public it's probably in order to prevent exactly what seems to be happening now: a self appointed "jury" putting him on an unofficial "trial" on the Main List, without even a law violation to charge him with.

    I'd like to remind everybody that trials in Nova Roma have a set of rules that must be followed, and they are not held on the Main List.

    Optime valete,
    Livia
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70792 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: a.d. V Non.Oct. - the Bacchanalia
    Salvete;
    the Bacchanalia is an interesting topic. Bacchic mysteries were an ancient tradition in Italy, and indeed collegia devoted to Bacchus were extremely popular.

    As was mentioned before the Affair of the Bacchanalia, was purely political and had nothing to do with religion. It was the creation of a society within a society that worried the Senate.

    The Torre Nova inscription shows an entire household devoted to a Bacchic society; slaves, children, etc.

    http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2003/2003-10-23.html.
    optime valete
    M. Hortensia Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
    >
    > Salvete omnes!
    >
    > Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.
    >
    > "To their religious performances were added the pleasures of wine and
    > feasting, to allure a greater number of proselytes. When wine,
    > lascivious discourse, night, and the intercourse of the sexes had
    > extinguished every sentiment of modesty, then debaucheries of every
    > kind began to be practiced, as every person found at hand that sort of
    > enjoyment to which he was disposed by the passion predominant in his
    > nature. Nor were they confined to one species of vice - the
    > promiscuous intercourse of free-born men and women; but from this
    > store-house of villainy proceeded false witnesses, counterfeit seals,
    > false evidences, and pretended discoveries. From the same place, too,
    > proceeded poison and secret murders, so that in some cases, not even
    > the bodies could be found for burial. Many of their audacious deeds
    > were brought about by treachery, but most of them by force; it served
    > to conceal the violence, that, on account of the loud shouting, and
    > the noise of drums and cymbals, none of the cries uttered by the
    > persons suffering violence or murder could be heard abroad.
    >
    > The infection of this mischief, like that from the contagion of
    > disease, spread from Etruria to Rome; where, the size of the city
    > affording greater room for such evils, and more means of concealment,
    > cloaked it at first; but information of it was at length brought to
    > the consul, Postumius. There was a freedwoman called Hispala Fecenia,
    > a noted courtesan who gave a full account of the origin of the
    > mysteries. 'At first,' she said, 'those rites were performed by women.
    > No man used to be admitted. They had three stated days in the year on
    > which persons were initiated among the Bacchanalians, in the daytime.
    > The matrons used to be appointed priestesses, in rotation. Paculla
    > Minia, a Campanian, when priestess, made an alteration in every
    > particular, as if by the direction of the gods. For she first
    > introduced men, who were her own sons, Minucius and Herrenius, both
    > surnamed Cerrinius; changed the time of celebration, from day to
    > night; and, instead of three days in the year, appointed five days of
    > initiation, in each month.
    >
    > From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
    > intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
    > added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
    > practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
    > each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
    > dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
    > sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
    > of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
    > predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
    > the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
    > blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber; where, dipping their torches
    > in the water, they drew them up again with the flame unextinguished,
    > being composed of native sulphur and charcoal. They said that those
    > men were carried off by the gods, whom the machines laid hold of and
    > dragged from their view into secret caves. These were such as refused
    > to take the oath of the society, or to associate in their crimes, or
    > to submit to defilement. This number was exceedingly great now, almost
    > a second state in themselves, and among them were many men and women
    > of noble families. During the last two years it had been a rule, that
    > no person above the age of twenty should be initiated; for they sought
    > for people of such age as made them more liable to suffer deception
    > and personal abuse.'" - Livy, History of Rome 39.8-16 [ed.]
    >
    >
    > "The consuls Quintus Marcius son of Lucius and Spurius Postumius son
    > of Lucius consulted the senate on the Nones of October in the Temple
    > of Bellona. Present at the writing of the decree were Marcus Claudius
    > son of Marcus, Lucius Valerius son of Publius, and Quintus Minucius
    > son of Gaius. Concerning the rites of Bacchus among the federated
    > peoples they decreed that the following edict be made:
    >
    > 'Let none of them be minded to have a shrine of Bacchus. If there are
    > any who say that they must needs have a shrine of Bacchus, they must
    > come to the Urban Praetor at Rome and, when their case has been heard,
    > our senate must make a decision on this, provided that not fewer than
    > one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed. Let
    > no man, whether Roman citizen or Latin ally or other ally, be minded
    > to go to a meeting of Bacchantes, unless they have gone to the Urban
    > Praetor and he has authorised it in accordance with a decision of the
    > senate, provided that not fewer than one hundred senators were present
    > when the matter was discussed.'
    >
    > They decreed:
    >
    > 'Let no man be a priest. Let no-one, man or woman, be a master. Let
    > none of them be minded to keep a common fund. Let no-one be minded to
    > make any man or woman an official or a temporary official. Henceforth
    > let no-one be minded to conspire, collude, plot or make vows in common
    > among themselves or to pledge loyalty to each other. Let none of them
    > be minded to hold sacred rites in secret. Let none of them be minded
    > to hold sacred rites in public or in private or outside the city,
    > unless they have gone to the Urban Praetor and he has authorised it in
    > accordance with a decision of the senate, provided that not more than
    > one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed.'
    >
    > They decreed:
    >
    > 'Let no group of more than five people in all, counting both men and
    > women, be minded to hold sacred rites; and let no more than two men or
    > three women be minded to be present, unless authorised by the Urban
    > Praetor and the senate as above.'
    >
    > You are to publicize these decrees at a public meeting over a period
    > of not less than three market days, and you must keep in mind the
    > decree of the senate, which was as follows: 'If there are any who
    > transgress against the decrees set out above, a capital charge is to
    > be brought against them'. You are to engrave this on a bronze tablet
    > (this also the senate decreed) and are to give orders that it be set
    > it up where it can most easily be read. And you are to see to it that
    > such shrines of Bacchus as now exist (if any) are disbanded in
    > accordance with the above decree within ten days from the time when
    > you receive these tablets, unless they contain any genuinely sacred
    > thing. In the territory of the Teuri." - SENATUS CONSULTUM DE
    > BACCANALIBUS, 186 BC
    >
    > Today was the celebration of the Bacchanalia until outlawed by the
    > Senate. The Bacchanalia were wild and mystic festivals of the Greek
    > god Bacchus. Introduced into Rome from lower Italy by way of Etruria
    > (c. 200 BC), the Bacchanalia were originally held in secret and
    > attended by women only. The festivals occurred on three days of the
    > year in the grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill. Later, admission
    > to the rites was extended to men and celebrations took place five
    > times a month. According to Livy, the extension happened in an era
    > when the leader of the Bacchus cult was Paculla Annia - though it is
    > now believed that some men had participated before that.
    >
    > Livy informs us that the rapid spread of the cult, which he claims
    > indulged in all kinds of crimes and political conspiracies at its
    > nocturnal meetings, led in 186 BC to a decree of the Senate — the
    > Senatus consultum de Baccanalibus, inscribed on a bronze
    > tablet discovered in Apulia in Southern Italy (AD 1640), now at the
    > Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna — by which the Bacchanalia were
    > prohibited throughout all Italy except in certain special cases which
    > must be approved specifically by the Senate. In spite of the severe
    > punishment inflicted on those found in violation of this decree (Livy
    > claims there were more executions than imprisonment), the Bacchanalia
    > survived in Southern Italy long past the repression.
    >
    > Valete bene!
    >
    > Cato
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70793 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Books and Sales [ was"Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)]
    Salvete;
    Livia's posting of a big sale on books from that excellent Italian publisher, reminded for all those cives living in the Eurozone, the euro is very high. Buying books from Amazon or the U.S would be really cheap right now.

    Amazon ships to europe with no problem and very reasonably,I've done it. Also Bookfinder is a great place to find books, French, German Italian etc..
    and if you buy it from a U.S. outlet I believe it could be cheaper too.
    optime valete
    Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
    >
    > I'd like to remind everybody that saying something is "proof" doesn't make it proof. Just like saying something is blue doesn't make it blue.
    >
    > Of course, there is a party of people here who think that if they repeat something long enough it will become "truth".
    >
    > In fact hijacking of IP addresses has become so common that, as Dexter reminded, IP addresses are not accepted as proof of identity in French courts.
    >
    > The fact that IP addresses are accepted as proof of identity in US courts at most proves that the US justice system is a bit more obsolete than the French one, or at least it proves that the matter is controversial and interpreted differently in different countries.
    >
    > Of course, there is also the matter of "guilt" which is such only if laws have been broken.
    >
    > As it happens, no Nova Roma laws have been broken, and Yahoo is not a macronation.
    > If Yahoo TOS have been broken, it is up to Yahoo to act, and not up to us. The moderators work to the best of their abilities in order to prevent breaking of Yahoo TOS. If sometimes a violation is not immediately identifiable they cannot be held responsible and I don't think Yahoo would spend the energy to proceed to an investigation even if the moderators' failure was reported.
    >
    > Complutensis has at least as convincing "proof" that his computers have been hacked. If he hasn't decided to make it public it's probably in order to prevent exactly what seems to be happening now: a self appointed "jury" putting him on an unofficial "trial" on the Main List, without even a law violation to charge him with.
    >
    > I'd like to remind everybody that trials in Nova Roma have a set of rules that must be followed, and they are not held on the Main List.
    >
    > Optime valete,
    > Livia
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70794 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Books and Sales [ was"Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)]
    Salvete,
    yes, but the books on sale by L'Erma di Bretschneider will not be cheaper anywhere else, because they are published by them. It is the most importan publisher of archaology books in Italy and probably in Europe.
    In fact, what happens is that bookshops buy them at the discound price, then sell them at the full price.
    I was in Rome about a week ago to see an exhibition about Roman painting (see: http://english.scuderiequirinale.it/ ) and there was a very well-stocked bookshop, where I bought a cartload of books. I also had a look at some books published by L'Erma, but I didn't buy then because I found the price high. Luckily! Because later I discovered the sale on www.lerma.it

    On the other hand Maior is right that the US dollar is low at the moment, but even more so is the British Pound. I was thinking of buying some of those Roman glassware reproductions from Britain, then I realized that it makes much more sense just to buy Pounds, and leave the glassware purchase for when it's really needed.

    Optime valete,
    Livia

    >
    > Salvete;
    > Livia's posting of a big sale on books from that excellent Italian publisher, reminded for all those cives living in the Eurozone, the euro is very high. Buying books from Amazon or the U.S would be really cheap right now.
    >
    > Amazon ships to europe with no problem and very reasonably,I've done it. Also Bookfinder is a great place to find books, French, German Italian etc..
    > and if you buy it from a U.S. outlet I believe it could be cheaper too.
    > optime valete
    > Maior
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70795 From: M·CVR·COMPLVTENSIS Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
     
    I hereby call for candidates to stand for election to the ordinary magistracies of the Comitia Centuriata and the Comitia Populi Tributa.
     
    Anyone wishing to serve in any of these positions must have been a citizen for at least six months by Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXIII (January 1st, 2010) and be an assiduus (tax-paying) citizen.
     
    I will convene the comitia for the elections at a later time in November, but candidates are welcome to announce themselves and begin campaigning if they wish.
     
    All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand for office directly by sending a message to curiatius-complutensis at yahoo dot es in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the word "candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me your full Nova Roman name and the office for which you will campaign. Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be accepted. You must write to me directly.
     
    Candidacies will be accepted until 3 November 2009 (18.00 hrs CET Rome; 12.00 hrs EST Philadelphia).
     
    The contio is tentatively scheduled to begin on 9 November, with the elections to follow tentatively beginning on 15 November.
     
    On behalf of the Res Publica Libera Senatus Populique Novae Romae I, Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Senior Consul, hereby issue this call for candidates for the following offices:
     
    I CENSOR: Must be at least 27 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius (formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.
     
    II CONSULS: Must be at least 27 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius (formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.
     
    II PRAETORS: Must be at least 25 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius (formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.
     
    II CURULE AEDILES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.
     
    VIII QUAESTORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.
     

    II ROGATORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.

     
    IV DIRIBITORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.
     
    II CUSTODES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.
     
    Datum sub manu mea ante diem V Nonas Octobris M. Curiatio Complutensis M. Iulio Severo consulibus, in anno AUC MMDCCLXII.


    M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
    CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
    CONSVL HISPANIAE

    NOVA ROMA

    -------------------------------------------

    ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70796 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: "Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)
    Re: [Nova-Roma] "Proof" (Was: Re: What law was broken?)

     A. Tullia Scholastica L. Liviae Plautae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
     

    L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.

    I'd like to remind everybody that saying something is "proof" doesn't make it proof. Just like saying something is blue doesn't make it blue.

        ATS:  Indeed...as I mentioned in my earlier post on this topic in a language well-known to the primary addressees, and which ought to be known to all citizens.  

    Of course, there is a party of people here who think that if they repeat something long enough it will become "truth".

        ATS:  That’s a well-known tactic.  

    In fact hijacking of IP addresses has become so common that, as Dexter reminded, IP addresses are not accepted as proof of identity in French courts.

        ATS:  And as I also said earlier in Latin, someone has to explain why I got spam from the senior consul’s computer.  Surely he didn’t send it.  Many are those who have the expertise to do this sort of thing, and some at least dislike a target of the posts in question.  Again as I noted earlier, the Dora Smith who used to post here frequently and who posted somewhat recently has been exposed elsewhere as a composite of many individuals, apparently what is called a sock puppet (note that these are two separate words, with a linguistic pause between them).


    The fact that IP addresses are accepted as proof of identity in US courts at most proves that the US justice system is a bit more obsolete than the French one, or at least it proves that the matter is controversial and interpreted differently in different countries.

    Of course, there is also the matter of "guilt" which is such only if laws have been broken.

    As it happens, no Nova Roma laws have been broken, and Yahoo is not a macronation.
    If Yahoo TOS have been broken, it is up to Yahoo to act, and not up to us. The moderators work to the best of their abilities in order to prevent breaking of Yahoo TOS. If sometimes a violation is not immediately identifiable they cannot be held responsible and I don't think Yahoo would spend the energy to proceed to an investigation even if the moderators' failure was reported.

    Complutensis has at least as convincing "proof" that his computers have been hacked. If he hasn't decided to make it public it's probably in order to prevent exactly what seems to be happening now: a self appointed "jury" putting him on an unofficial "trial" on the Main List, without even a law violation to charge him with.

    I'd like to remind everybody that trials in Nova Roma have a set of rules that must be followed, and they are not held on the Main List.

        ATS:  It seems that some are held on other lists associated with NR, and not necessarily the official one intended for that purpose.  

    Optime valete,
    Livia

      Vale, et valete.  
        

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70797 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, QFabiusMaxmi@... wrote:
    >
    He broke Yahoo's
    > laws. You cannot masquerade as someone else on a Yahoo owned list. It is
    > spelled out very plainly in English. That is the law he broke. Our
    > Constitution stipulates you must follow the marconational law. So in that way he
    > defied the Constitution.
    >


    Point of fact: yahoo isn't a macronation, nor are it's policies or terms of service considered to be laws.

    -Anna
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70798 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
    >
    rather, I think you're a partisan cog.



    What party? I'm not aware of any current parties in Nova Roma.


    -Anna
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70799 From: david.alan99 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: My Introduction
    Greetings Everyone,


    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.

    David
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70800 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-03
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Salve Davide;
    Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.

    Look here at our website to get see the list :
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name

    we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.

    Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Cultus_deorum_Romanorum

    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    bene vale in pacem Veneris
    M. Hortensia Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@...> wrote:
    >
    > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    >
    > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > David
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70801 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Salve Tay
    My name is Jonathan, I would like to apply for citizenship to nove roma, I have chosen a roman name and I wish to submit it here for review before I refer to myself with it, Structus Vedius Votaus my last name is Vota and I attempted to Romanize it, I donot know if i failed or not, so Please kind Romans consider me a novice to the roman way of life and please allow me to learn from you as my journey progresses. I am a knowledgable man who is in his first years of a chemistry/physics degree and will be a great contributor to this noble nation. Hail and vale tay.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70802 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Hi M.Hortensia Maior,

      Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!

    --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:

    De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33

     

    Salve Davide;
    Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.

    Look here at our website to get see the list :
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name

    we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.

    Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum

    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    bene vale in pacem Veneris
    M. Hortensia Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    >
    > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > David
    >



    Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70803 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Gualtero s.p.d.,

    > If you...

    - Ha, there is Gualterus! Ut vales? You seem embarrassed and dark as a thundery cloud. Do you come back from the back alley? Please, have a seat!

    > If you can't understand the motivation for why he did this then you have a very poor imagination.

    - Argh! Poor Gualterus he cannot be quiet nor friendly... "a very poor imagination". Lol. You do not know me at all. But the consul's interest of this sock puppetry is not manifeste.

    > But, in fact I don't think you have a hard time understanding why he could do it;

    - Once more time, you think that your opponent does not understand or simulaye misunderstanding. It is a cliché with you. Apparently you like to debate with idiots. It is a quite complex of superiority. You may be have to consult a psy.

    > rather, I think you're a partisan cog.

    - Because you, Gualterus, you are not a partisan cog? Though I sense behind your shoulders Potitus, Maximus, Cato... and of course Sulla.

    > You aren't interested in the truth-

    - More than you are. You claimed a guilt without evidence, it is not the truth which animates you but the scandal and the conspiracy.

    > -you simply want to defend Complutensis at all cost, no matter what the probabilities or possibilities.

    - I think that Complutensis is a consul of Nova Roma. I believe in his honesty and because he said he had not use this artifice, that you imagined for him, I believe in. I also know the little reliability of the IP addresses. None NR law was broken, too. Yahoo rules are not worth our NR laws. Yahoo is not a macronation.

    > I have already seen this attitude from you when you ignorantly responded to me on the issue of Job and Hebrew--you prefer to oppose and deny simply based on partisan preference instead of evaluating the truth.

    - My response on Job is good and definitive. The Latin version does not have a point of interrogation. And if you read the Moses books you can see with evidence that the god of Cato do not have the wisdom as first and main quality or attribute but, as he says himself in those books, the jealousy. I had that question closed.

    I know you like controversies instead of building interesting things in Nova Roma. At what use serve your controversies? At nothing good for Nova Roma. I do not want to be carried away by your negative conduct, I think that those controversies are perhaps good for your complex of superiority but very bad for Nova Roma. Do you want that I search the truth over your fashion to act like that with your buddies of the back alley? I am sure that I am not far of the truth if I think that your goal is not to work for the good of Nova Roma.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70804 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Salve Tay
    Ave Ionathan,

    > My name is Jonathan, I would like to apply for citizenship to nove roma,

    It is a good thing.

    > I have chosen a roman name and I wish to submit it here for review before I refer to myself with it,

    Nova Roma has a censoria cohors, in which some latinists, whose I am, accept or deny the names proposed by the applicants. Bit by bit the New Roman naming rules were found and now are applied.

    The main rule is to follow the tria nomina, id est to take one of the 17 prænomina, a nomen gentilicium available on the Nova Roma list or known as used during the Roman RePublic till the first century of the Empire period, finally a cognomen, this cognomen is the part of your name in which you are the more free. The cognomen can be your name latinized or many other choices that you find on the Nova Roma website.

    See here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name

    > Structus Vedius Votaus my last name is Vota and I attempted to Romanize it, I donot know if i failed or not, so Please kind Romans consider me a novice to the roman way of life and please allow me to learn from you as my journey progresses.

    The latinization of your name can be simply Vota and you can use it as cognomen. Vota will be of the first declension. Mostly the word of this declension are feminine but many male Roman cognomens follow this first declension as Seneca, Caligula, Cotta, Nerva, Bestia... but infortunately Structus is not a Roman prænomen, it will be not accepted as your praenomen, Vedius on the other hand is acceptable as Roman nomen gentilicium.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70805 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Salvete Davide;
    please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.

    We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....

    here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/
    optime vale
    Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve Davide;
    >
    > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    >
    >
    > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    >
    >
    > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    >
    >
    > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________________________________________________________________________________
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70806 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Annæ salutem dicit plurimam,

    At the Gualterus words:
    > > rather, I think you're a partisan cog.

    you ask:
    > What party? I'm not aware of any current parties in Nova Roma.

    Me too, I am not aware of these kind of things. I only know that Gualterus is a back alley member which is something as a gang rather than a party, in which we find the fellow buddies L. Sulla, C. Cato, Fabius Maximus, Valerius Potitus, Poplicola, perhaps others, and certainly our famous Gualterus. Those individuals, some are senators, at the moment have the "Spanish" consul Complutensis as a target, they pick on him.

    But not only the consul, the prætors too, and generally each magistracies of Nova Roma or future provinces as the Thracia and his responsible, even the Collegium Pontificum, the "eminent" senator indeed C. Cato, one day, used a tortuous argument about the word "shall" to deny all legitimacy to the CP. Those men are a pity...

    They are motived to do bad things towards Nova Roma, you never read in them messages good proposals in order to help the expansion of Nova Roma neither postive things to do, they are obsessed by the irony and they call their vanity "freedom of speech".

    It is funny that this man who trully has parts with the back alley gang says that I am a partisan cog.

    Cura ut valeas.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70807 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Salve Tay
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salve Tay

     A. Tullia Scholastica rogatrix C. Petronio Dextro Jonathanque quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
     

    Ave Ionathan,

    > My name is Jonathan, I would like to apply for citizenship to nove roma,

    It is a good thing.

     

    >  I have chosen a roman name and I wish to submit it here for review before I refer to myself with it,

    Nova Roma has a censoria cohors, in which some latinists, whose I am, accept or deny the names proposed by the applicants. Bit by bit the New Roman naming rules were found and now are applied.

        ATS:  And I am also a Latinist and a member of the censorial cohors, a junior officer there.    One little Latin correction:  salvete, and the last syllable is not pronounced as tay, but more like teh.  

    The main rule is to follow the tria nomina, id est to take one of the 17 prænomina, a nomen gentilicium available on the Nova Roma list or known as used during the Roman RePublic till the first century of the Empire period, finally a cognomen, this cognomen is the part of your name in which you are the more free. The cognomen can be your name latinized or many other choices that you find on the Nova Roma website.

    See here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name

    > Structus Vedius Votaus my last name is Vota and I attempted to Romanize it, I donot know if i failed or not, so Please kind Romans consider me a novice to the roman way of life and please allow me to learn from you as my journey progresses.

        ATS:  As Dexter and Hortensia noted, you must choose a first name (praenomen) from a very limited list available on the page referenced above.  These are the only names allowed for praenomina.  Structus may be a cognomen, or last name, but not a praenomen, or first name.  The Romans did not use their praenomina outside of the family and a circle of friends; they were standard, and had standard abbreviations which were used instead, as M. Tullius Cicero and C. Julius Caesar.  

    The latinization of your name can be simply Vota and you can use it as cognomen.

        ATS:  Indeed.  Vota seems quite fine as is.  

    Vota will be of the first declension. Mostly the word of this declension are feminine but many male Roman cognomens follow this first declension as Seneca, Caligula, Cotta, Nerva, Bestia... but infortunately Structus is not a Roman prænomen, it will be not accepted as your praenomen, Vedius on the other hand is acceptable as Roman nomen gentilicium.

        ATS:  Yes, Vota is in the largely feminine first declension, but there are many masculine names therein, and some nouns referring strictly to males which are not proper names.  As I mentioned above, Structus may be a cognomen, but not a praenomen, though you must choose either Vota or Structus; we do not allow two such names.  Vedius is perfectly fine as a nomen, though to us Vedius is one of our founders, and he might not like having others filch his nomen...  ;-)  

        Think of the Roman naming process as being similar to picking from a Chinese menu:  One from Column A, highly restricted; one from Column B, much more extensive, and one from Column C, still more extensive and far less restrictive.  

        With regard to the Album and censorial tools, we do not know when these will reappear; if memory serves, they are not part of the wiki proper, and are written in a different computer language.  We have had a forced move of our site, and possibly these items have to be rewritten from scratch.  Possibly the IT staff might be able to shed more light on this.  

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter

    Valete.  

      
        

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70808 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: a.d. IV Non. Oct.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

    "Minos aspired to the throne of Krete, but was rebuffed. He claimed,
    however, that he had received the sovereignty from the gods, and to
    prove it he said that whatever he prayed for would come about. So
    while sacrificing to Poseidon, he prayed for a bull to appear from the
    depths of the sea, and promised to sacrifice it upon its appearance.
    And Poseidon did send up to him a splendid bull. Thus Minos received
    the rule, but he sent the bull to his herds and sacrificed another.
    Poseidon was angry that the bull was not sacrificed, and turned it
    wild. He also devised that Pasiphae should develop a lust for it. In
    her passion for the bull she took on as her accomplice an architect
    named Daidalos...He built a woden cow on wheels...skinned a real cow,
    and sewed the contraption into the skin, and then, after placing
    Pasiphae inside, set it in a meadow where the bull normally grazed.
    The bull came up and had intercourse with it, as if with a real cow.
    Pasiphae gave birth to Asterios, who was called Minotauros. He had the
    face of a bull, but was otherwise human. Minos, following certain
    oracular instructions, kept him confined and under guard in the
    labyrinth. This labyrinth, which Daidalos built, was a cage with
    convoluted flextions that disorders debouchment." - Apollodorus, The
    Library 3.8-11

    "Pasiphae, the wife of Minos, became enamoured of the bull, and
    Daidalos, by fashioning a contrivance in the shape of a cow, assisted
    Pasiphae to gratify her passion. In explanation of this the myths
    offer the following account: before this time it had been the custom
    of Minos annually to dedicate to Poseidon the fairest bull born in his
    herds and to sacrifice it to the god; but at the time in question
    there was born a bull of extraordinary beauty and he sacrificed
    another from among those which were inferior, whereupon Poseidon
    becoming angry at Minos, caused his wife Pasiphae to become enamoured
    of the bull. And by means of the ingenuity of Daidalos Pasiphae had
    intercourse with the bull and gave birth to the Minotauros, famed in
    the myth. This creature, they say, was of double form, the upper parts
    of the body as far as the shoulders being those of a bull and the
    remaining parts those of a man. As a place in which to keep this
    monstrous thing Daidalos, the story goes, built a labyrinth, the
    passage-ways of which were so winding that those unfamiliar with them
    had difficulty in making their way out; in this labyrinth the Minotaur
    was maintained and here it devoured the seven youths and seven maidens
    which were sent to it from Athens, as we have already related." -
    Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4.77.1

    "He [Theseus] killed the Minotaur in the town of Cnossus." - Hyginus,
    Fabulae 38

    "The feast called Oschophoria, or the feast of boughs, which to this
    day the Athenians celebrate, was then first instituted by Theseus. For
    he took not with him the full number of virgins which by lot were to
    be carried away, but selected two youths of his acquaintance, of fair
    and womanish faces, but of a manly and forward spirit, and having, by
    frequent baths, and avoiding the heat and scorching of the sun, with a
    constant use of all the ointments and washes and dresses that serve to
    the adorning of the head or smoothing the skin or improving the
    complexion, in a manner changed them from what they were before, and
    having taught them farther to counterfeit the very voice and carriage
    and gait of virgins so that there could not be the least difference
    perceived, he, undiscovered by any, put them into the number of the
    Athenian maids designed for Crete. At his return, he and these two
    youths led up a solemn procession, in the same habit that is now worn
    by those who carry the vine-branches. Those branches they carry in
    honour of Bacchus and Ariadne, for the sake of their story before
    related; or rather because they happened to return in autumn, the time
    of gathering the grapes. The women, whom they call Deipnopherae, or
    supper-carriers, are taken into these ceremonies, and assist at the
    sacrifice, in remembrance and imitation of the mothers of the young
    men and virgins upon whom the lot fell, for thus they ran about
    bringing bread and meat to their children; and because the women then
    told their sons and daughters many tales and stories, to comfort and
    encourage them under the danger they were going upon, it has still
    continued a custom that at this feast old fables and tales should be
    told. For these particularities we are indebted to the history of
    Demon. There was then a place chosen out, and a temple erected in it
    to Theseus, and those families out of whom the tribute of the youth
    was gathered were appointed to pay tax to the temple for sacrifices to
    him. And the house of the Phytalidae had the overseeing of these
    sacrifices, Theseus doing them that honour in recompense of their
    former hospitality." - Plutarch, Parallel Lives "Theuseus"

    In ancient Greece today was the celebration of the Oschophoria. The
    Oschophoria was a festival celebrated in Attica, according to some
    writers celebrated in honour of Athena and Dionysus, according to
    others Dionysus and Ariadne. Said to have been instituted by
    Theseus, this was a vintage festival, its name derived from the word
    for a branch of a vine with grapes.

    The Greek myth states that when Theseus left Athens, he took with him
    three girls and two boys dresses as girls. After he killed the
    Minotaur in the Labyrinth and returned to Athens he was crowned with a
    wreath of olive leaves. However, because his father died he put the
    crown on his staff and not on his head. The festival of Dionysus was
    being commemorated when he returned, and he placed the two boys that
    were dressed like women at the front of the procession. Consequently,
    in the procession during the Oschophorian celebrations, two men
    dressed like women carried vine-branches from the temple of Dionysus
    to the temple of Athena Skira. They were accompanied by a herald with
    a wreath wrapped around his staff. Also in the procession were women
    who carried the sacred foods for the feast. Some of the meat became a
    burnt offering for the gods, with the remainder eaten or divided up
    for the participants to take home. When the procession reached the
    temple, stories were told and many songs sung. The women usually
    prepared the dinner and narrated myths. Athletic games were also
    played during the Oschophoria.

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70810 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

    Salve.

    You wrote:

    "They are motived to do bad things towards Nova Roma, you never read in them
    messages good proposals in order to help the expansion of Nova Roma neither
    postive things to do, they are obsessed by the irony and they call their vanity
    "freedom of speech"."

    And this is demonstrably false, Dexter. I didn't see you making any useful
    suggestions or even commenting on the long list of proposals I brought before
    this forum some while ago. It is much easier to tear down than to work to
    build, and you seem to have decided to join those who simply lie to make
    themselves and their ... "buddies", as you say ... look better. That is
    unfortunate.

    Vale,

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70811 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Database question
    Salvete Romans,
     
    I first asked about this in this private email and then I asked on the Senate floor.  So far I have not received an answer so I am asking it here in our forum.
     
    "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    pretending that all is well?"
     
    Would the Consul's or the CIO inform us if any of the aforementioned is true?

    If it is true what plans have been made to create the means to hold an election, add new citizens and do all the other things the database once did? 

    Valete
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    Censor
     
     
    From: spqr753@...
    To: c.curius@...; cn_corn_lent@...; m.iul.severus.consul@...; complutensis@...
    Subject: Status on Nova Roma wiki and other computer related items
    Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:09:06 -0400

    Salvete,
     
    "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    pretending that all is well?"
     
    Is any of the aforementioned true?
     
    Valete,
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70812 From: Jonathan Vota Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Salve Tay
     gratias tibi ago Tullia,
     
    I appreciate your help with this matter, please tell me if this name is properly put together. Gaius Domitius Vota. IF this is proper which I think it to ber please allow me the privaledge of applying for citizenship.


    From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 5:06:49 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salve Tay

     


     A. Tullia Scholastica rogatrix C. Petronio Dextro Jonathanque quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
     

    Ave Ionathan,

    > My name is Jonathan, I would like to apply for citizenship to nove roma,

    It is a good thing.

     

    >  I have chosen a roman name and I wish to submit it here for review before I refer to myself with it,

    Nova Roma has a censoria cohors, in which some latinists, whose I am, accept or deny the names proposed by the applicants. Bit by bit the New Roman naming rules were found and now are applied.

        ATS:  And I am also a Latinist and a member of the censorial cohors, a junior officer there.    One little Latin correction:  salvete, and the last syllable is not pronounced as tay, but more like teh.  

    The main rule is to follow the tria nomina, id est to take one of the 17 prænomina, a nomen gentilicium available on the Nova Roma list or known as used during the Roman RePublic till the first century of the Empire period, finally a cognomen, this cognomen is the part of your name in which you are the more free. The cognomen can be your name latinized or many other choices that you find on the Nova Roma website.

    See here:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name

    > Structus Vedius Votaus my last name is Vota and I attempted to Romanize it, I donot know if i failed or not, so Please kind Romans consider me a novice to the roman way of life and please allow me to learn from you as my journey progresses.

        ATS:  As Dexter and Hortensia noted, you must choose a first name (praenomen) from a very limited list available on the page referenced above.  These are the only names allowed for praenomina.  Structus may be a cognomen, or last name, but not a praenomen, or first name.  The Romans did not use their praenomina outside of the family and a circle of friends; they were standard, and had standard abbreviations which were used instead, as M. Tullius Cicero and C. Julius Caesar.  

    The latinization of your name can be simply Vota and you can use it as cognomen.

        ATS:  Indeed.  Vota seems quite fine as is.  

    Vota will be of the first declension. Mostly the word of this declension are feminine but many male Roman cognomens follow this first declension as Seneca, Caligula, Cotta, Nerva, Bestia... but infortunately Structus is not a Roman prænomen, it will be not accepted as your praenomen, Vedius on the other hand is acceptable as Roman nomen gentilicium.

        ATS:  Yes, Vota is in the largely feminine first declension, but there are many masculine names therein, and some nouns referring strictly to males which are not proper names.  As I mentioned above, Structus may be a cognomen, but not a praenomen, though you must choose either Vota or Structus; we do not allow two such names.  Vedius is perfectly fine as a nomen, though to us Vedius is one of our founders, and he might not like having others filch his nomen...  ;-)  

        Think of the Roman naming process as being similar to picking from a Chinese menu:  One from Column A, highly restricted; one from Column B, much more extensive, and one from Column C, still more extensive and far less restrictive.  

        With regard to the Album and censorial tools, we do not know when these will reappear; if memory serves, they are not part of the wiki proper, and are written in a different computer language.  We have had a forced move of our site, and possibly these items have to be rewritten from scratch.  Possibly the IT staff might be able to shed more light on this.  

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter

    Valete.  

      
        


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70813 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Database question
    Salve Pauline;
    and as I replied 3 times to you in the Senate, why didn't you write to Agricola or Saturninus who are in charge of the database and website?
    1 or 2 emails, a couple of weeks ago and you would have gotten your answer. I know you know Agricola.

    So kindly stop with the drama, unless you want it. Just write to Agricola now; I'm sure you'll get an answer.

    vale
    Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Salvete Romans,
    >
    >
    >
    > I first asked about this in this private email and then I asked on the Senate floor. So far I have not received an answer so I am asking it here in our forum.
    >
    >
    >
    > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > pretending that all is well?"
    >
    > Would the Consul's or the CIO inform us if any of the aforementioned is true?
    >
    >
    > If it is true what plans have been made to create the means to hold an election, add new citizens and do all the other things the database once did?
    >
    >
    > Valete
    >
    >
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    > Censor
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > From: spqr753@...
    > To: c.curius@...; cn_corn_lent@...; m.iul.severus.consul@...; complutensis@...
    > Subject: Status on Nova Roma wiki and other computer related items
    > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:09:06 -0400
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete,
    >
    > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > pretending that all is well?"
    >
    > Is any of the aforementioned true?
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70814 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Database question
    Salve Maior,
     
    If you will note the timestamp from the email below I did send a private email on 30 Sept.  Five days latter still no response.
     
    Sending a private email and no answers. Questions asked on the Senate floor and no answers. Questions asked in the forum and we are still awaiting answers.
     
    The only drama is yours.
     
     
    Vale
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
     

    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: rory12001@...
    Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 18:29:59 +0000
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Database question

     
    Salve Pauline;
    and as I replied 3 times to you in the Senate, why didn't you write to Agricola or Saturninus who are in charge of the database and website?
    1 or 2 emails, a couple of weeks ago and you would have gotten your answer. I know you know Agricola.

    So kindly stop with the drama, unless you want it. Just write to Agricola now; I'm sure you'll get an answer.

    vale
    Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... > wrote:
    >
    >
    > Salvete Romans,
    >
    >
    >
    > I first asked about this in this private email and then I asked on the Senate floor. So far I have not received an answer so I am asking it here in our forum.
    >
    >
    >
    > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > pretending that all is well?"
    >
    > Would the Consul's or the CIO inform us if any of the aforementioned is true?
    >
    >
    > If it is true what plans have been made to create the means to hold an election, add new citizens and do all the other things the database once did?
    >
    >
    > Valete
    >
    >
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    > Censor
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > From: spqr753@...
    > To: c.curius@... ; cn_corn_lent@ ...; m.iul.severus. consul@.. .; complutensis@ ...
    > Subject: Status on Nova Roma wiki and other computer related items
    > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:09:06 -0400
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete,
    >
    > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > pretending that all is well?"
    >
    > Is any of the aforementioned true?
    >
    > Valete,
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70815 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: Database question
    Cato Hortensiae Maiori sal.

    Salve.

    Maior, perhaps you do not understand how an elected republican government works. Magistrates are elected by the People to *serve* the Respublica, not *rule over* it according to their likes and dislikes. This means that the consuls are *responsible to* the Senate and People - all of them - and when a question is asked regarding the business operations of the Respublica, they are bound to answer.

    If you buy a book at a bookstore and there is a section missing in the middle, how would you like it if the bookstore staff told you to take it to the printer to discuss a replacement?

    By accepting the office of consul (or any magistracy), a person is accepting the *responsibilities* as well as the honor and power that go with it. Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are.

    Vale,

    Cato



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Pauline;
    > and as I replied 3 times to you in the Senate, why didn't you write to Agricola or Saturninus who are in charge of the database and website?
    > 1 or 2 emails, a couple of weeks ago and you would have gotten your answer. I know you know Agricola.
    >
    > So kindly stop with the drama, unless you want it. Just write to Agricola now; I'm sure you'll get an answer.
    >
    > vale
    > Maior
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Salvete Romans,
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > I first asked about this in this private email and then I asked on the Senate floor. So far I have not received an answer so I am asking it here in our forum.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > > pretending that all is well?"
    > >
    > > Would the Consul's or the CIO inform us if any of the aforementioned is true?
    > >
    > >
    > > If it is true what plans have been made to create the means to hold an election, add new citizens and do all the other things the database once did?
    > >
    > >
    > > Valete
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    > >
    > > Censor
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > From: spqr753@
    > > To: c.curius@; cn_corn_lent@; m.iul.severus.consul@; complutensis@
    > > Subject: Status on Nova Roma wiki and other computer related items
    > > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:09:06 -0400
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salvete,
    > >
    > > "What about the fact that there is no Album Civium, no Censors Tools, no new citizen application,
    > > no way to hold an election? any concern amongst the pointy hatters about *that*? or are they still
    > > pretending that all is well?"
    > >
    > > Is any of the aforementioned true?
    > >
    > > Valete,
    > >
    > > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70816 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius C. Catoni sal.,

    > And this is demonstrably false, Dexter.

    Lol. Your last message on the Question of the database shows that you are motived by this obsession... in short, you have a viper tongue.

    It is a second nature to you, and you do not see.

    A quote about M. Hortensia and the consuls:
    "Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are."

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70817 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

    salve.

    No, Petronius, I know exactly what I am saying and how I say it. And I mean it exactly the way I said it. Many in the current government have failed the Respublica miserably and continue to fail it in their obstinacy and arrogance.

    Vale,

    Cato



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > C. Petronius C. Catoni sal.,
    >
    > > And this is demonstrably false, Dexter.
    >
    > Lol. Your last message on the Question of the database shows that you are motived by this obsession... in short, you have a viper tongue.
    >
    > It is a second nature to you, and you do not see.
    >
    > A quote about M. Hortensia and the consuls:
    > "Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are."
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70818 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Petroni;
    You'll notice Paulinus didn't write to his friend Agricola, who could give him a quick answer. Instead make a drama and a fuss with the people who are actually working.

    I don't reply to Cato anymore. He has shown his true face; someone here who only works to undermine the Res Publica.

    I'm going to ask M. Moravius Piscinus if he will post the reports of the religious officials activities here on the ML for all the quirites to see. Yours are inspiring, Corvus, the PM etc..so much activity!

    this fuss is all about politics and elections, not about really helping Nova Roma in a constructive way.
    optime vale
    Maior

    >
    > Lol. Your last message on the Question of the database shows that you are motived by this obsession... in short, you have a viper tongue.
    >
    > It is a second nature to you, and you do not see.
    >
    > A quote about M. Hortensia and the consuls:
    > "Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are."
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70819 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Good Grief Maior...I think, with respect to all concerned, you need to be a bit more reasonable here.

    In the first place, Galerius is a Censor. He and his colleague should not be in the dark regarding how citizenship apps are processed, and how the Album Civium is going to be catalogued ( I notice that's gone from the website).

    To recap, Maior:

    Galerius addressed his concerns in the Senate forum (Agricola is a Senator nonne?), *and* privately wrote Saturninus, Lentulus and both Consuls about these vital technical considerations on Sept 30. Galerius himself told you all this 3 or 4 messages ago, Maior, BTW. He hasn't got an answer on this from *anybody* on this as of October 4, so he announces this disconcerting lack of feedback on the ML, and the announce list.

    So, by your reasoning Maior, because he didn't write Agricola privately Galerius didn't try hard enough and is just trying to be a drama king?

    Oh, I've seen many *dramas* on this list over the years, with the words *political agenda* all over them, but I do think the only agenda here is that Galerius Censor would like to do his job, and is looking to determine what other alternatives are available for processing the data he and his colleague are responsible for.

    I don't know if you quite understand how much work it is to manually realign the tribes and centuries, for example..the old fashioned way, without the help of electronic programs; I have a feeling you don't. Anyway, if the Censors have to do this, they should be made aware, and perhaps start soon, given that elections have been called, and a census has just been conducted.

    Myself, and a good many others I'm sure, join Galerius Censor in his questions. I have another one of my own....if notice was given to the Senate that the webhosting would no longer be available, why weren't some of these things put into place in preparation for the cessation of Matt's services? If plans are put in place, then I respectfully withdraw the question. But this in itself won't alter the basic issue that the Censor is not a drama king for requesting information crutial to getting his jobs done.

    Pompeia



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Petroni;
    > You'll notice Paulinus didn't write to his friend Agricola, who could give him a quick answer. Instead make a drama and a fuss with the people who are actually working.
    >
    > I don't reply to Cato anymore. He has shown his true face; someone here who only works to undermine the Res Publica.
    >
    > I'm going to ask M. Moravius Piscinus if he will post the reports of the religious officials activities here on the ML for all the quirites to see. Yours are inspiring, Corvus, the PM etc..so much activity!
    >
    > this fuss is all about politics and elections, not about really helping Nova Roma in a constructive way.
    > optime vale
    > Maior
    >
    > >
    > > Lol. Your last message on the Question of the database shows that you are motived by this obsession... in short, you have a viper tongue.
    > >
    > > It is a second nature to you, and you do not see.
    > >
    > > A quote about M. Hortensia and the consuls:
    > > "Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are."
    > >
    > > Vale.
    > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70820 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-04
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Po;
    I just IM'd Agricola our former webmaster. He told me that the Album Civium had been built by patches for over 10 years, and that "kinda figures it takes a while to remake it."

    Agricola who is my friend and Paulinus' friend, quit as webmaster, because people would demand to know why x wasn't done, or when it would be done, in the Senate & on the ML.

    Callidus who was the webmaster before Agricola, quit for the very same reason. No one realizes the big job they do or cuts them any slack.

    Paulinus asked this question at 9:45 am. I gave him a good answer: write to Agricola. I did it at 11:30 pm and got an answer here by 11:50 pm. that's 20 minutes, without any drama.

    case closed
    vale
    Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@...> wrote:
    >
    > Good Grief Maior...I think, with respect to all concerned, you need to be a bit more reasonable here.
    >
    > In the first place, Galerius is a Censor. He and his colleague should not be in the dark regarding how citizenship apps are processed, and how the Album Civium is going to be catalogued ( I notice that's gone from the website).
    >
    > To recap, Maior:
    >
    > Galerius addressed his concerns in the Senate forum (Agricola is a Senator nonne?), *and* privately wrote Saturninus, Lentulus and both Consuls about these vital technical considerations on Sept 30. Galerius himself told you all this 3 or 4 messages ago, Maior, BTW. He hasn't got an answer on this from *anybody* on this as of October 4, so he announces this disconcerting lack of feedback on the ML, and the announce list.
    >
    > So, by your reasoning Maior, because he didn't write Agricola privately Galerius didn't try hard enough and is just trying to be a drama king?
    >
    > Oh, I've seen many *dramas* on this list over the years, with the words *political agenda* all over them, but I do think the only agenda here is that Galerius Censor would like to do his job, and is looking to determine what other alternatives are available for processing the data he and his colleague are responsible for.
    >
    > I don't know if you quite understand how much work it is to manually realign the tribes and centuries, for example..the old fashioned way, without the help of electronic programs; I have a feeling you don't. Anyway, if the Censors have to do this, they should be made aware, and perhaps start soon, given that elections have been called, and a census has just been conducted.
    >
    > Myself, and a good many others I'm sure, join Galerius Censor in his questions. I have another one of my own....if notice was given to the Senate that the webhosting would no longer be available, why weren't some of these things put into place in preparation for the cessation of Matt's services? If plans are put in place, then I respectfully withdraw the question. But this in itself won't alter the basic issue that the Censor is not a drama king for requesting information crutial to getting his jobs done.
    >
    > Pompeia
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Petroni;
    > > You'll notice Paulinus didn't write to his friend Agricola, who could give him a quick answer. Instead make a drama and a fuss with the people who are actually working.
    > >
    > > I don't reply to Cato anymore. He has shown his true face; someone here who only works to undermine the Res Publica.
    > >
    > > I'm going to ask M. Moravius Piscinus if he will post the reports of the religious officials activities here on the ML for all the quirites to see. Yours are inspiring, Corvus, the PM etc..so much activity!
    > >
    > > this fuss is all about politics and elections, not about really helping Nova Roma in a constructive way.
    > > optime vale
    > > Maior
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Lol. Your last message on the Question of the database shows that you are motived by this obsession... in short, you have a viper tongue.
    > > >
    > > > It is a second nature to you, and you do not see.
    > > >
    > > > A quote about M. Hortensia and the consuls:
    > > > "Many of the magistrates in our current government seem as unaware of this as you are."
    > > >
    > > > Vale.
    > > > C. Petronius Dexter
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70821 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Ti. Pompeiæ s.p.d.,


    > Good Grief Maior...I think, with respect to all concerned, you need to be a bit more reasonable here.
    > In the first place, Galerius is a Censor.

    I do not think that M. Hortensia is not reasonable. Galerius indeed is one of the two censors, he knows and has the might on the website's moderators to have the answers he want and knows in person M. Lucretius Agricola. He is senator too.

    With all those cards in his hand, he wants to obtain the answer from the people and give us a dark picture of a single move affair of the website. And of course the people is less informed than Galerius and does not have such cards in hand.

    So or Galerius is a censor without any authority, or Galerius has ulterior motives.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70822 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: What law was broken? WAS: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

    Salve.

    Absolute rubbish. Pompeia is precisely correct. The consuls are the executive magistrates of the Respublica. It is not at their whim that they choose whether or not to provide information to other magistrates, the Senate, or the People. I cannot stress this enough: magistrates SERVE THE PEOPLE, not the other way around. The People give imperium, and the People can take it away.

    The censor asked the consuls privately, then in the Senate, and waited for four days. If Maior can get some kind of answer from Agricola in 20 minutes, then why could the consuls not? Why would they then refuse to say what information they do have?

    Arrogance, pure and simple. Unacceptable and reprehensible. But it apparently suits whatever fantasies or needs they have, so they simply ignore their responsibilities. The Respublica is much bigger than their own personalities, and ten months into their "reign" they have yet to understand that.

    Vale,

    Cato



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > C. Petronius Ti. Pompeiæ s.p.d.,
    >
    >
    > > Good Grief Maior...I think, with respect to all concerned, you need to be a bit more reasonable here.
    > > In the first place, Galerius is a Censor.
    >
    > I do not think that M. Hortensia is not reasonable. Galerius indeed is one of the two censors, he knows and has the might on the website's moderators to have the answers he want and knows in person M. Lucretius Agricola. He is senator too.
    >
    > With all those cards in his hand, he wants to obtain the answer from the people and give us a dark picture of a single move affair of the website. And of course the people is less informed than Galerius and does not have such cards in hand.
    >
    > So or Galerius is a censor without any authority, or Galerius has ulterior motives.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70823 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Salvete
    Salvete Romans,

    Sum Gaius Sulpicius Vota. I am here to officially apply for Roman Citizenship, to whom may I inquire to for this privaledge? Hail and Good Day to you all.

    Sulpicius.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70824 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Salve Sulpici !

    The warmest welcome among us!

    To apply for citizenship, you need to contact the censors, alphabetically :
    - censor Fabius Buteo at: tau.athanasios@... ;
    - censor Galerius at: spqr753@....

    They, or one of their assistants, will be glad making you aware of our proceedings.

    Vale and good luck Vota,


    P. Memmius Albucius
    praetor


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "j_vota_9" <j_vota_9@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete Romans,
    >
    > Sum Gaius Sulpicius Vota. I am here to officially apply for Roman Citizenship, to whom may I inquire to for this privaledge? Hail and Good Day to you all.
    >
    > Sulpicius.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70825 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Re: [Nova-Roma] Salvete
    A. Tullia Scholastica C. Sulpicio Votae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
     
     

    Salvete Romans,

    Sum Gaius Sulpicius Vota. I am here to officially apply for Roman Citizenship, to whom may I inquire to for this privaledge?

        ATS:  Matters concerning citizenship are the bailiwick of the censors and their staffs, but due to the transfer of our website, we cannot process citizenship applications at this time, and it may be quite a while before we can.  Most of the site has apparently been transferred, but the relevant parts have not.  Our hands are tied.  


    Hail and Good Day to you all.

    Sulpicius.

    Vale, et valete.  

      
        

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70826 From: j_vota_9 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    No matter, I shall await the arrival of the new servus data. Meanwhile, Salvete fellow Romans are there any traditons or rites due to be performed by a new member? I am learning of the Roman culture and am still a novice. Please, anyone who can help me along the way I would be grateful to you for your assistance. Is market day still on? I would very much enjoy it. Also, does anyone have suggestions on the ideal material for folding a toga? and what would the proper way for a new roman citizen to wear his/hers? I know that I have many questions, but as the old addage goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
    >
    > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Sulpicio Votae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Salvete Romans,
    > >
    > > Sum Gaius Sulpicius Vota. I am here to officially apply for Roman Citizenship,
    > > to whom may I inquire to for this privaledge?
    > >
    > > ATS: Matters concerning citizenship are the bailiwick of the censors and
    > > their staffs, but due to the transfer of our website, we cannot process
    > > citizenship applications at this time, and it may be quite a while before we
    > > can. Most of the site has apparently been transferred, but the relevant parts
    > > have not. Our hands are tied.
    > >
    > >
    > > Hail and Good Day to you all.
    > >
    > > Sulpicius.
    > >
    > > Vale, et valete.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70827 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Salve, fratre!
    Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    How you must drap the toga:
    and video:
    Vale

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70828 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: News about the Cista
    Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.


    I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:

    "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."

    In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70829 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: News about the Cista
    Salve Lentule:

    Thank you for the update.

    I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.

    It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.

    All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.

    Vale
    Pompeia

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
    >
    > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    >
    >
    > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    >
    > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    >
    > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70830 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: a.d. III Non. Oct.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nones Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

    "M. Fabius Dorsuo and Ser. Sulpicius Camerinus were the next consuls.
    A sudden raid by the Auruncans led to a war with that people. Fears
    were entertained that more than one city was concerned in this, that
    in fact it had been planned by the entire Latin League. To meet all
    Latium in arms L. Furius Camillus was nominated Dictator; he appointed
    Cnaeus Manlius Capitolinus Master of the Horse. As usual in great and
    sudden alarms a suspension of all business was proclaimed and the
    enlistment was made without any claims to exemption being allowed;
    when it was completed the legions were marched as rapidly as possible
    against the Auruncans. They showed the temper of marauders rather than
    of soldiers, and the war was finished in the very first battle. But as
    they had begun the war without any provocation and had shown no
    reluctance to accept battle, the Dictator thought it his duty to
    secure the help of the gods, and during the actual fighting he vowed a
    temple to Juno Moneta. On his victorious return to Rome, he resigned
    his Dictatorship to discharge his vow. The senate ordered two
    commissioners to be appointed to carry out the construction of that
    temple in a style commensurate with the greatness of the Roman people,
    and a site was marked out in the Citadel where the house of M. Manlius
    Capitolinus had stood. The consuls employed the Dictator's army in
    war with the Volscians and took from them by a coup-de-main the city
    of Sora.

    The temple of Moneta was dedicated in the following year, when C.
    Marcius Rutilus was consul for the third time and T. Manlius Torquatus
    for the second. A portent followed close on the dedication similar to
    the old portent on the Alban Mount; a shower of stones fell and night
    seemed to stretch its curtain over the day. The citizens were filled
    with dread at this supernatural occurrence, and after the Sibylline
    Books had been consulted the senate decided upon the appointment of a
    Dictator to arrange the ceremonial observances for the ap- pointed
    days. P. Valerius Publicola was nominated and Q. Fabius Ambustus was
    appointed Master of the Horse. It was arranged that not only the Roman
    tribes but also the neighbour- ing populations should take part in the
    public intercessions, and the order of the days which each was to
    observe was definitely laid down. There were prosecutions this year
    of moneylenders by the aediles, and heavy sentences are stated to have
    been passed on them by the people. For some reason, which is not
    recorded, matters reverted to an interregnum. As, however, it ended in
    the election of two patrician consuls, this would appear to be the
    reason why it was resorted to. The new consuls were M. Valerius Corvus
    (for the third time) and A. Cornelius Cossus." - Livy, History of Rome
    7.28


    On this day the rite of mundus (Mania) was performed, in which an
    effigy representing the sky was placed upside down in a pit and and
    covered with a large stone called the lapis manalis. Three times a
    year, including today, the stone was removed to alow the spirits of
    the underworld access to the upper regions of the earth.

    In Roman theology, it was believed that the entrances to the
    Underworld were also very real locations, called the Mundus, and the
    one in Rome was called the mundus Cereris (the exact location is no
    longer known). This was a pit, which was capped off by a stone called
    the Lapis Manalis except on three days of ill omen (August 24th,
    October 5th, and November 8th). On these days, the lid was lifted to
    expose the ostium orci, the Gate to Hades, and to release the manes,
    spirits of the Roman dead. The collective di manes (divine dead) were
    considered potent spirits that needed appeasing, and additional
    holidays throughout the year were celebrated to appease them, usually
    on odd numbered days of ill luck. Mania was the goddess of the
    underworld, mother or caretaker to the lesser deities of the lares.
    She was also revered on May 11th during this period, during which time
    charms called mania (plural maniae) were placed on the doors of houses
    (as a ward, perhaps) against this goddess, who had the characteristics
    of a "boogey-man" in Roman lore:

    "An ancient and formidable Italian, probably Etruscan, divinity of the lower world, is called the mother of the Manes or Lares. (Varro, de Ling. Lat. ix. 61; Arnob. adv. Gent. iii. 41; Macrob. Sat. i. 7.) The festival of the Compitalia was celebrated as a propitiation to Mania in common with the Lares, and, according to an ancient oracle that heads should be offered on behalf of heads, boys are said to have been sacrificed on behalf of the families to which they belonged. The consul Junius Brutus afterwards abolished the human sacrifices, and substituted garlic and the heads of poppies for them. Images of Mania were hung up at the house doors, with a view to avert all dangers. (Macrob. l.c.) As regards her being the mother of the Manes or Lares, the idea seems to have been that the souls of the departed on their arrival in the lower world became her children, and either there dwelt with her or ascended into the upper world as beneficent spirits. (Muller, Die Etrusk. iii. 4.) In later times the plural Maniae occurs as the designation of terrible, ugly, and deformed spectres, with which nurses used to frighten children. (Paul. Diac. p. 128; Festus, p. 129, ed. Muller.)" - Myth Index (http://mythindex.com/)

    Valete bene!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70831 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: News about the Cista
    Salve Pompeia;
    are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;

    it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..

    Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.

    Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.


    If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    vale

    Maior




    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Lentule:
    >
    > Thank you for the update.
    >
    > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    >
    > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    >
    > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    >
    > Vale
    > Pompeia
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > >
    > >
    > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > >
    > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > >
    > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70832 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Salve Sulpici,
    now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve, fratre!
    > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > How you must drap�the toga:
    > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > and video:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > Vale
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70833 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Salve,
    I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    Nero




    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Sulpici,
    > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > >
    > > Salve, fratre!
    > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > and video:
    > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > Vale
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70834 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: AUSTRORIENTALIS: Substituting Gubenator AURELIANUS
    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA  PROCURATOR PROVINCIA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    Salvete omnes,

    As Procurator of the Province by the hand of our honorable Gubenator AURELIANUS,
    I will substitute him for the time of his absence!

    You are all more than welcome to contact me concerning all provincial/NR matters affecting our Province.
    Feel free to contact me by phone please dial 202-674-6191 at any time 24/7.


    Valete

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    PROCURATOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

    From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salvete
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:26 PM

     

    Salve Sulpici,
    now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve, fratre!
    > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togatext. pdf
    > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > http://rabbitorigin als.com/toga/
    > How you must drap�the toga:
    > http://www.theweebs ite.com/earlygar b/images/ toga.gif
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togapix.pdf
    > and video:
    > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9aFibgeJTVU& feature=channel
    > Vale
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70835 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Salvete!
    Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!

    Thanks!
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70836 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete!
    Salvete! and welcome
    this is a great place to start and get acclimatised:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page

    it's our wiki, telling about NR's purpose: to restore the cultus deorum and classical Roman culture in our lives, how to choose a Roman name,
    then you can see what interests you. I'm a 6 year member of Nova Roma, very active in the religio and have my closest friends from its citizens.
    optime vale
    M. Hortensia Maior

    hint: (call people by their cognomen ie: Maior)


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "slasher_tb" <slasher_tb@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70837 From: (no author) Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: (no subject)
    Salve Maior,
     
    (SIGH)
     
    If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
     
    My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
     
    Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro.com/memberties/
     
    It cost  between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
     
    This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
     
    Vale
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
     



    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: rory12001@...
    Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista

     
    Salve Pompeia;
    are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;

    it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..

    Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.

    Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.


    If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    vale

    Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "pompeia_minucia_ tiberia" <scriba_forum@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Lentule:
    >
    > Thank you for the update.
    >
    > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    >
    > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    >
    > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    >
    > Vale
    > Pompeia
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@ > wrote:
    > >
    > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > >
    > >
    > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > >
    > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > >
    > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > >
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70838 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete!
    thank you for being so kind. I would like to talk to other citizens, if you have any kind of messenger at all. How do I chose my name? Is there a way to do so? How did you chose yours?


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete! and welcome
    > this is a great place to start and get acclimatised:
    > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
    >
    > it's our wiki, telling about NR's purpose: to restore the cultus deorum and classical Roman culture in our lives, how to choose a Roman name,
    > then you can see what interests you. I'm a 6 year member of Nova Roma, very active in the religio and have my closest friends from its citizens.
    > optime vale
    > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > hint: (call people by their cognomen ie: Maior)
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "slasher_tb" <slasher_tb@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!
    > >
    > > Thanks!
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70839 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Hi Maior,

      I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.

                                                                                                     David


          

    --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:

    De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58

     

    Salvete Davide;
    please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.

    We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....

    here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;

    http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
    optime vale
    Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve Davide;
    >
    > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    >
    >
    > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    >
    >
    > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    >
    >
    > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >



    Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70840 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Salve Nero,
    I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.

    Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.

    If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.

    In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.

    If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.

    As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve,
    > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > Nero
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > >
    > > Optime vale,
    > > Livia
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > and video:
    > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > Vale
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70841 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Castra Romana Charleston,SC Nov. 12-15
    Salvete omnes

    who of us is intending to attend the Castra Romana in Charleston(Summerville),SC in Nov.?

    The CASTRA-ROTA will be present there with a booth. I intend to present, sell and/or prepare ANTIQVA CVLINARIA ROMANA on site. It would also be a very good possibility to represent NOVA ROMA there, either with or without its own booth. It would be possible to combine the CASTRA-ROTA setup with NR. I guess a good chance to represent and recruit for NR.
    I have quite interesting media and customer connections here. The CASTRA-ROTA is only 50 to 60 min. away from the spot. I could arrange acommodations and maybe a NR only feast here at the CASTRA-ROTA.

    So everybody who thinks about it please contact me, there is still time to arrange something extraordinary!
    Contact me and let me know what you have in mind or if you would also be able to add something to the event.

    Optime vale

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    Procurator America Austrorientalis

    P.S.: To Scholastica...it would be great pleasure Magistra to see you there. And the tabulae are on me!


    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

    From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re:AUSTRORIENTALIS: Substituting Gubenator AURELIANUS
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:46 PM

     

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA  PROCURATOR PROVINCIA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    Salvete omnes,

    As Procurator of the Province by the hand of our honorable Gubenator AURELIANUS,
    I will substitute him for the time of his absence!

    You are all more than welcome to contact me concerning all provincial/NR matters affecting our Province.
    Feel free to contact me by phone please dial 202-674-6191 at any time 24/7.


    Valete

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    PROCURATOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com> wrote:

    From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salvete
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:26 PM

     

    Salve Sulpici,
    now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve, fratre!
    > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togatext. pdf
    > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > http://rabbitorigin als.com/toga/
    > How you must drap�the toga:
    > http://www.theweebs ite.com/earlygar b/images/ toga.gif
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togapix.pdf
    > and video:
    > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9aFibgeJTVU& feature=channel
    > Vale
    >



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70842 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
    Salve Pauline;
    so you were rude to Saturninus twice? Privately and on the Main List, I don't understand you at all. No wonder he was angry and fed up. That's what happens to all our IT people, please wake up; respect them and be nice.

    First, did you ask Saturninus if this software would be helpful? Did you ask him, what would be helpful?

    Otherwise this is a typical situation that infuriates IT people. They are working at the problem, and magistrates are at cross-purposes not co-ordinating with them.
    This isnt' my opinion; this is what our past webmasters told me.
    They were all very generous and kind. I started out utterly clueless and now I split my hard drive myself and use Linux and Windows. I feel fortunate to have their friendship.
    vale
    Maior


    >
    >
    > Salve Maior,
    >
    > (SIGH)
    >
    > If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
    >
    > My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
    >
    > Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro.com/memberties/
    >
    >
    >
    > It cost between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
    >
    > This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
    >
    > Vale
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > From: rory12001@...
    > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve Pompeia;
    > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
    >
    > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
    >
    > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
    >
    > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
    >
    >
    > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    > vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Lentule:
    > >
    > > Thank you for the update.
    > >
    > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    > >
    > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    > >
    > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > Pompeia
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > > >
    > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > > >
    > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70843 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

    But, as I say "What NR law is broken?" to have a lawsuit against the consul.

    Surely it's a question not of which  law has been broken but of 'public morality'. We were told that both censors were concerned about this and took it very seriously. Indeed Censor Modianus assured us that he took it so seriously he had asked Consul Severus to convene the Senate to lead an enquiry where the evidence could be presented.

    Are we seriously to believe that the Consul has refused to comply with the Censors' wishes?

    On 28th June Censor modianus wrote:-

    "We have contacted the praetores and they are looking into the matter.  We are have asked Consul Severus to convene the senate, after the current session, to lead an inquiry into this matter where the available data can be presented.  As censores we are concerned with "the public morality" of this concern.  We are not leading the investigation, but have a stake in it and are patiently viewing the material.  It is being taken seriously by both censores."


    When can we expect the report of the senate on this matter?

    Flavia Lucilla Merula
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70844 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Salve Davide;
    if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
    Sure post it.

    Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

    You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

    As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
    http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

    if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
    optime vale
    Maior


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Maior,
    >
    >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
    >
    >                                                                                                  David
    >
    >
    >       
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete Davide;
    >
    > please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
    >
    >
    >
    > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
    >
    >
    >
    > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
    >
    >
    >
    > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
    >
    > optime vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
    >
    > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    >
    > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >
    > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >  
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Salve Davide;
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > >
    >
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    >
    > > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    >
    > > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________________________________________________________________________________
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70845 From: slasher_tb Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    lol Don't worry, just the cognomen will do!

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Maior,
    >
    >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
    >
    >                                                                                                  David
    >
    >
    >       
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete Davide;
    >
    > please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
    >
    >
    >
    > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
    >
    >
    >
    > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
    >
    >
    >
    > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
    >
    > optime vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
    >
    > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    >
    > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >
    > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >  
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Salve Davide;
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > >
    >
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    >
    > > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    >
    > > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________________________________________________________________________________
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70846 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Posting rules in this Forum, 10/5/2009, 11:45 pm
    Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
     
    Title:   Posting rules in this Forum
     
    Date:   Monday October 5, 2009
    Time:   11:45 pm - 12:00 am
    Repeats:   This event repeats every week until Friday January 1, 2010.
    Location:   Rome
    Notes:   Praetores omnibus s.d.

    Please keep on mind the posting rules defined in the current Edictum de sermone Apr. 24, 2762 GEM-PMA, that you find in the Files section of this Forum, at:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/files/Edicta%20de%20sermone/

    Valete omnes,


    Praetores G.E.Marinus and P.M.Albucius
     
    Copyright © 2009  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70847 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Castra Romana Summerville (Charleston, SC) Nov 12 - 15
    Salvete omnes

    who of us is intending to attend the Castra Romana in Charleston(Summerville),SC in Nov.?

    The CASTRA-ROTA will be present there with a booth. I intend to present, sell and/or prepare ANTIQVA CVLINARIA ROMANA on site. It would also be a very good possibility to represent NOVA ROMA there, either with or without its own booth. It would be possible to combine the CASTRA-ROTA setup with NR. I guess a good chance to represent and recruit for NR.
    I have quite interesting media and customer connections here. The CASTRA-ROTA is only 50 to 60 min. away from the spot. I could arrange acommodations and maybe a NR only feast here at the CASTRA-ROTA.

    So everybody who thinks about it please contact me, there is still time to arrange something extraordinary!
    Contact me and let me know what you have in mind or if you would also be able to add something to the event.

    Optime vale

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    Procurator America Austrorientalis

    P.S.: To Scholastica...it would be great pleasure Magistra to see you there. And the tabulae are on me!


    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

    From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re:AUSTRORIENTALIS: Substituting Gubenator AURELIANUS
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:46 PM

     

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA  PROCURATOR PROVINCIA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    Salvete omnes,

    As Procurator of the Province by the hand of our honorable Gubenator AURELIANUS,
    I will substitute him for the time of his absence!

    You are all more than welcome to contact me concerning all provincial/NR matters affecting our Province.
    Feel free to contact me by phone please dial 202-674-6191 at any time 24/7.


    Valete

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    PROCURATOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com> wrote:

    From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salvete
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:26 PM

     

    Salve Sulpici,
    now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve, fratre!
    > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togatext. pdf
    > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > http://rabbitorigin als.com/toga/
    > How you must drap�the toga:
    > http://www.theweebs ite.com/earlygar b/images/ toga.gif
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togapix.pdf
    > and video:
    > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9aFibgeJTVU& feature=channel
    > Vale
    >



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70848 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Castra Romana Charleston,SC Nov. 12-15
    Salvete omnes

    who of us is intending to attend the Castra Romana in Charleston(Summervi lle),SC in Nov.?

    The CASTRA-ROTA will be present there with a booth. I intend to present, sell and/or prepare ANTIQVA CVLINARIA ROMANA on site. It would also be a very good possibility to represent NOVA ROMA there, either with or without its own booth. It would be possible to combine the CASTRA-ROTA setup with NR. I guess a good chance to represent and recruit for NR.
    I have quite interesting media and customer connections here. The CASTRA-ROTA is only 50 to 60 min. away from the spot. I could arrange acommodations and maybe a NR only feast here at the CASTRA-ROTA.

    So everybody who thinks about it please contact me, there is still time to arrange something extraordinary!
    Contact me and let me know what you have in mind or if you would also be able to add something to the event.

    Optime vale

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    Procurator America Austrorientalis

    P.S.: To Scholastica. ..it would be great pleasure Magistra to see you there. And the tabulae are on me!


    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

    From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re:Castra Romana Charleston,SC Nov. 12-15
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 10:07 PM

     

    Salvete omnes

    who of us is intending to attend the Castra Romana in Charleston(Summervi lle),SC in Nov.?

    The CASTRA-ROTA will be present there with a booth. I intend to present, sell and/or prepare ANTIQVA CVLINARIA ROMANA on site. It would also be a very good possibility to represent NOVA ROMA there, either with or without its own booth. It would be possible to combine the CASTRA-ROTA setup with NR. I guess a good chance to represent and recruit for NR.
    I have quite interesting media and customer connections here. The CASTRA-ROTA is only 50 to 60 min. away from the spot. I could arrange acommodations and maybe a NR only feast here at the CASTRA-ROTA.

    So everybody who thinks about it please contact me, there is still time to arrange something extraordinary!
    Contact me and let me know what you have in mind or if you would also be able to add something to the event.

    Optime vale

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    Procurator America Austrorientalis

    P.S.: To Scholastica. ..it would be great pleasure Magistra to see you there. And the tabulae are on me!


    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_ rota@yahoo. com> wrote:

    From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_ rota@yahoo. com>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re:AUSTRORIENTALIS: Substituting Gubenator AURELIANUS
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:46 PM

     

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA  PROCURATOR PROVINCIA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    Salvete omnes,

    As Procurator of the Province by the hand of our honorable Gubenator AURELIANUS,
    I will substitute him for the time of his absence!

    You are all more than welcome to contact me concerning all provincial/NR matters affecting our Province.
    Feel free to contact me by phone please dial 202-674-6191 at any time 24/7.


    Valete

    C.AQVILLIVS ROTA
    PROCURATOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS

    --- On Mon, 10/5/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com> wrote:

    From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@ gmail.com>
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Salvete
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:26 PM

     

    Salve Sulpici,
    now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve, fratre!
    > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togatext. pdf
    > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > http://rabbitorigin als.com/toga/
    > How you must drap�the toga:
    > http://www.theweebs ite.com/earlygar b/images/ toga.gif
    > http://www.csulb. edu/~dhood/ graphics/ togapix.pdf
    > and video:
    > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=9aFibgeJTVU& feature=channel
    > Vale
    >




    __________________________________________________
    Do You Yahoo!?
    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
    http://mail.yahoo.com
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70849 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

      Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

    --- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:

    De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

     

    Salve Davide;
    if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    Sure post it.

    Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

    You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

    As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
    http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail

    if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
    optime vale
    Maior

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Maior,
    >
    >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
    >
    >                                                                                                  David
    >
    >
    >       
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete Davide;
    >
    > please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
    >
    >
    >
    > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
    >
    >
    >
    > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
    >
    >
    >
    > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
    >
    > optime vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
    >
    > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    >
    > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >
    > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >  
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Salve Davide;
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > >
    >
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    >
    > > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    >
    > > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >



    Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70850 From: Jonathan Vota Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: Salvete!
    Salvete,
     
    I am G. Sulpicius Vota. i shall help you in anyway I can, and welcome.


    From: slasher_tb <slasher_tb@...>
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:45:51 PM
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Salvete!

     

    Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!

    Thanks!


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70851 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
    Salve Maior,
     
    As always Maior attack, attack never willing to help with a solution just DRAMA.
     
    I asked a question in private and then on the Senate floor about things that need to be asked. 
    I never use anyone's nick names like some people do. I try and address people by Roman name or title.
    I was not rude to Saturninus no matter what you or he thinks.
     
    Every person in NR no matter the job is a volunteer.  At this point in time the IT people or anybody else
    who feels PUT upon by others asking questions should do one of two things.
     
    SUCK IT UP OR QUIT.
     
    Vale
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
     

     

    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: rory12001@...
    Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:43:52 +0000
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO

     
    Salve Pauline;
    so you were rude to Saturninus twice? Privately and on the Main List, I don't understand you at all. No wonder he was angry and fed up. That's what happens to all our IT people, please wake up; respect them and be nice.

    First, did you ask Saturninus if this software would be helpful? Did you ask him, what would be helpful?

    Otherwise this is a typical situation that infuriates IT people. They are working at the problem, and magistrates are at cross-purposes not co-ordinating with them.
    This isnt' my opinion; this is what our past webmasters told me.
    They were all very generous and kind. I started out utterly clueless and now I split my hard drive myself and use Linux and Windows. I feel fortunate to have their friendship.
    vale
    Maior


    >
    >
    > Salve Maior,
    >
    > (SIGH)
    >
    > If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
    >
    > My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
    >
    > Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro. com/memberties/
    >
    >
    >
    > It cost between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
    >
    > This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
    >
    > Vale
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    > From: rory12001@.. .
    > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve Pompeia;
    > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
    >
    > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
    >
    > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
    >
    > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
    >
    >
    > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    > vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "pompeia_minucia_ tiberia" <scriba_forum@ > wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Lentule:
    > >
    > > Thank you for the update.
    > >
    > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    > >
    > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    > >
    > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > Pompeia
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@ > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > > >
    > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > > >
    > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > > >
    > >
    >


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70852 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Flavia Lucilla Merula,
     

    "When can we expect the report of the senate on this matter?'

    I would say never. As far as I can tell they are running out the clock.
     
    Vale
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus
     

    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    From: kirsteen.falconsfan@...
    Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 23:51:51 +0100
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     


    On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:39 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@yahoo. fr> wrote:

    But, as I say "What NR law is broken?" to have a lawsuit against the consul.

    Surely it's a question not of which  law has been broken but of 'public morality'. We were told that both censors were concerned about this and took it very seriously. Indeed Censor Modianus assured us that he took it so seriously he had asked Consul Severus to convene the Senate to lead an enquiry where the evidence could be presented.

    Are we seriously to believe that the Consul has refused to comply with the Censors' wishes?

    On 28th June Censor modianus wrote:-

    "We have contacted the praetores and they are looking into the matter.  We are have asked Consul Severus to convene the senate, after the current session, to lead an inquiry into this matter where the available data can be presented.  As censores we are concerned with "the public morality" of this concern.  We are not leading the investigation, but have a stake in it and are patiently viewing the material.  It is being taken seriously by both censores."


    When can we expect the report of the senate on this matter?

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70853 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-05
    Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Tiberio Galerio Paulino salutem dicit

    "SUCK IT UP OR QUIT."

    You admonish Maior for causing drama and for having a demeanor you don't find acceptable and then you write the above?  At least be consistent and not add your own drama to the equation!

    Vale;

    Modianus

    On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
     

    Salve Maior,
     
    As always Maior attack, attack never willing to help with a solution just DRAMA.
     
    I asked a question in private and then on the Senate floor about things that need to be asked. 
    I never use anyone's nick names like some people do. I try and address people by Roman name or title.
    I was not rude to Saturninus no matter what you or he thinks.
     
    Every person in NR no matter the job is a volunteer.  At this point in time the IT people or anybody else
    who feels PUT upon by others asking questions should do one of two things.
     
    SUCK IT UP OR QUIT.


     
    Vale
     
    Ti. Galerius Paulinus



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70854 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Fl. Lucillae s.p.d.,

    > > Surely it's a question not of which law has been broken but of 'public
    > morality'.

    But when the gang of the back alley talk about public morality, we must laugh.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70855 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Potitus Petronio SPD.

     

    I assume that you are joking again. Your irony is legendary.

     

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petronius_dexter
    Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:27 PM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     


    C. Petronius Fl. Lucillae s.p.d.,

    > > Surely it's a question not of which law has been broken but of
    'public
    > morality'.

    But when the gang of the back alley talk about public morality, we must laugh.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70856 From: pompeia_minucia_tiberia Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: News about the Cista
    No Maior, I'm not on the Senate list...I haven't been for months.

    As for what you write below, and how you rotely *rationalize* matters at hand irrespective of logic, I can only say, as I've said before in other words perhaps: I don't know you any more; yet you and I were once friends....you've fashioned yourself (or perhaps rather have been fashioned) into how the farmer Varro of old would describe a slave: " a talking tool"

    I hope it is all worth it to you, Maior. One day you may come to know who your friends truly are........and who they are NOT.

    Pompeia



    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Pompeia;
    > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
    >
    > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
    >
    > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
    >
    > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
    >
    >
    > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    > vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Lentule:
    > >
    > > Thank you for the update.
    > >
    > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    > >
    > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    > >
    > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > Pompeia
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > > >
    > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > > >
    > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70857 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Salve,
    In Pliny's Natural History he mentions the use of cotton for clothes.
    While I will admit that wool was used most often if Pliny knew of cotton then common sense says the Romans used it for clothing.
    Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    Nero

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Nero,
    > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
    >
    > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
    >
    > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
    >
    > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
    >
    > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
    >
    > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > Nero
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > > >
    > > > Optime vale,
    > > > Livia
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > > and video:
    > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > > Vale
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70858 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:

    >
    > ... IT UP OR QUIT.
    >


    I believe the trend is the latter.


    -Anna
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70859 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:26 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote


    But when the gang of the back alley talk about public morality, we must laugh.

    Ah but it wasn't the Back Alley who claimed it was a matter of public morality - it was Censor Modianus. I quote again his post of June 28th

    We have contacted the praetores and they are looking into the matter.  We are have asked Consul Severus to convene the senate, after the current session, to lead an inquiry into this matter where the available data can be presented.  As censores we are concerned with "the public morality" of this concern.  We are not leading the investigation, but have a stake in it and are patiently viewing the material.  It is being taken seriously by both censores.


    So I really would like to know if Consul Severus is really refusing to comply with the Censores wishes?  After all the request was made over 3 months ago

    Flavia Lucilla Merula



     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70860 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

    As a censor I am concerned with public morality.  The matter was investigated by the praetores, and no laws were broken if Complutensis is/was guilty of sockpuppetry.  I am of the opinion that it does not serve the public good to keep pressing the issue.  The consul claims he was innocent, and I am not as technologically astute to decipher the argument of his guilt.  Does it *really* matter if he is guilty or innocent?  He has already been convicted by public opinion of most people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished.  This is unfortunate because I have worked with Complutensis for several years and he is an excellent administrator, and diligent worker.  It is very unfortunate that most of our citizens only saw one side of him, and did not see the other side that I and others have witnessed. 

    I wonder... I truly do... when Nova Roma will mature into a community that strives to stick together and work together.  Instead of being a divisive group of people bent on fighting about everything.  Until this organization matures we are doomed to the existence we have enjoyed for so many years and will fail to blossom into what we can become.

    Valete;

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:56 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
     



    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:26 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote


    But when the gang of the back alley talk about public morality, we must laugh.

    Ah but it wasn't the Back Alley who claimed it was a matter of public morality - it was Censor Modianus. I quote again his post of June 28th


    We have contacted the praetores and they are looking into the matter.  We are have asked Consul Severus to convene the senate, after the current session, to lead an inquiry into this matter where the available data can be presented.  As censores we are concerned with "the public morality" of this concern.  We are not leading the investigation, but have a stake in it and are patiently viewing the material.  It is being taken seriously by both censores.


    So I really would like to know if Consul Severus is really refusing to comply with the Censores wishes?  After all the request was made over 3 months ago

    Flavia Lucilla Merula



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70861 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

    Does it *really* matter if he is guilty or innocent? 

    Thank you for your prompt reply. However I think it *does* matter if he is guilty or innocent. If he is guilty then, although no actual law may have been broken, it was a thoroughly reprehensible underhanded act and I wouldn't like to think that anyone who was capable of such an act would continue in a political career within Nova Roma.

    On the other hand, if he is innocent then surely he must be desperate for an investigation so that he can clear his name and continue his work for Nova Roma.

    On June 29th, I think it was you stated that

    Consul Severus has agreed, per the request of the censores, to convene the senate after the current session to discuss the matter of Complutensis and fpasquinus.

     
    It definitely was you who on that date said
     

    I am confident that through the good offices of the Senators and Conscript Fathers, the Praetores, and Matt Hucke; the whole matter will be resolved.


    I just wonder what changed your mind. I mean the evidence against him was presented to the list. surely if he was innocent, he would want a chance to explain that publicly.

     Until this organization matures we are doomed to the existence we have enjoyed for so many years and will fail to blossom into what we can become.

    I totally agree with this which is why i feel we should be prepared to face things openly and clear them up one way or another.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70862 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

    Do you have any idea how much it would cost Nova Roma to do a thorough investigation?  I'm not talking about sitting at home looking up tech codes and such.  I'm talking about obtaining records from Internet providers and all the sort of legal investigations that are used to secure a legitimate verdict of guilt.  Far too much.  We have more pressing matters to worry about than whether or not a consul hid behind a screen name.  I have more than one e-mail address.  I don't go by Caeso Buteo in every venue I participate in.  The same logic that could be used to convict Complutensis could be used to show "double lives" of most of our citizens.  The difference is where the other e-mail addresses were used -- not within the same venue.

    It seems more advantageous for us as a community to use this as a learning experience in how we wish to operate rather than a witch hunt to ruin a contributor to Nova Roma.

    It is really a matter of etiquette.  Not law.  No law was broken, if in fact he was guilty.  So that line of argument cannot be used.  Without records from the Internet Service provider there is doubt.  He has claimed he did not do what he is being accused of, that also causes doubt.

    This matter is best left to annals of Nova Roma history and we move on to other things.

    Vale;

    Modianus 

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
     



    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

    Does it *really* matter if he is guilty or innocent? 

    Thank you for your prompt reply. However I think it *does* matter if he is guilty or innocent. If he is guilty then, although no actual law may have been broken, it was a thoroughly reprehensible underhanded act and I wouldn't like to think that anyone who was capable of such an act would continue in a political career within Nova Roma.

    On the other hand, if he is innocent then surely he must be desperate for an investigation so that he can clear his name and continue his work for Nova Roma.

    On June 29th, I think it was you stated that

    Consul Severus has agreed, per the request of the censores, to convene the senate after the current session to discuss the matter of Complutensis and fpasquinus.

     
    It definitely was you who on that date said
     

    I am confident that through the good offices of the Senators and Conscript Fathers, the Praetores, and Matt Hucke; the whole matter will be resolved.


    I just wonder what changed your mind. I mean the evidence against him was presented to the list. surely if he was innocent, he would want a chance to explain that publicly.



     Until this organization matures we are doomed to the existence we have enjoyed for so many years and will fail to blossom into what we can become.

    I totally agree with this which is why i feel we should be prepared to face things openly and clear them up one way or another.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70863 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Potitus Modiano SPD.

     

    I appreciate your concern for the Republic, but I disagree that this is “really a matter of etiquette”. It is actually a matter of ethics, honor and fides. It is a question of “conduct unbecoming” of a magistrate. If Complutensis created Pasquinus (during his weekend of meditation, after which he gave us the ridiculous story about plastic dice), and then lied about his action, then this clearly shows something of his character.

     

    Furthermore, I think you should recuse yourself from commenting on this matter, since you are too close to it. You were elected censor because Complutensis accepted your candidacy, told the people that your candidacy was perfectly legal, and ignored a tribune’s intercessio. If Complutensis is shown to be guilty of creating Pasquinus (and thus lying about *not* creating him), then that ethical lapse throws all of his earlier decisions into question, further adding to the questions surrounding your election.

     

    In addition, it is normal for consuls, upon completion of their terms, to run for censor. Would you support Complutensis to run for censor with an ethics violation hanging over his head?

     

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

     

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter.

     

     

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
    Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:01 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

    Do you have any idea how much it would cost Nova Roma to do a thorough investigation?  I'm not talking about sitting at home looking up tech codes and such.  I'm talking about obtaining records from Internet providers and all the sort of legal investigations that are used to secure a legitimate verdict of guilt.  Far too much.  We have more pressing matters to worry about than whether or not a consul hid behind a screen name.  I have more than one e-mail address.  I don't go by Caeso Buteo in every venue I participate in.  The same logic that could be used to convict Complutensis could be used to show "double lives" of most of our citizens.  The difference is where the other e-mail addresses were used -- not within the same venue.

    It seems more advantageous for us as a community to use this as a learning experience in how we wish to operate rather than a witch hunt to ruin a contributor to Nova Roma.

    It is really a matter of etiquette.  Not law.  No law was broken, if in fact he was guilty.  So that line of argument cannot be used.  Without records from the Internet Service provider there is doubt.  He has claimed he did not do what he is being accused of, that also causes doubt.

    This matter is best left to annals of Nova Roma history and we move on to other things.

    Vale;

    Modianus 

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan @...> wrote:

     

     

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:16 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ gmail.com> wrote:


    Does it *really* matter if he is guilty or innocent? 


    Thank you for your prompt reply. However I think it *does* matter if he is guilty or innocent. If he is guilty then, although no actual law may have been broken, it was a thoroughly reprehensible underhanded act and I wouldn't like to think that anyone who was capable of such an act would continue in a political career within Nova Roma.

    On the other hand, if he is innocent then surely he must be desperate for an investigation so that he can clear his name and continue his work for Nova Roma.

    On June 29th, I think it was you stated that

    Consul Severus has agreed, per the request of the censores, to convene the senate after the current session to discuss the matter of Complutensis and fpasquinus.

     
    It definitely was you who on that date said
     

    I am confident that through the good offices of the Senators and Conscript Fathers, the Praetores, and Matt Hucke; the whole matter will be resolved.


    I just wonder what changed your mind. I mean the evidence against him was presented to the list. surely if he was innocent, he would want a chance to explain that publicly.



     Until this organization matures we are doomed to the existence we have enjoyed for so many years and will fail to blossom into what we can become.

    I totally agree with this which is why i feel we should be prepared to face things openly and clear them up one way or another.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula

     

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70864 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter


    Surely, Censor Modianus,  this would be the answer. You have already requested the Senate to investigate. Here is someone willing to bear the cost of that, so it will cost the Republic nothing.

    You stated that consul Complutensis has denied any involvement in this yet you admit that  "He has already been convicted by public opinion of most people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished.  This is unfortunate"

    Here is a chance for him to clear his name and continue his political career. Surely it would be churlish in the extreme to deny him that.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70865 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: prid. Non. Oct.
    Cato omnibus in foro SPD

    Salvete omnes!

    Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

    "The consul Manlius was alarmed by this victory of the Cimbri, and
    sent a letter begging Caepio to join forces with him and confront
    the (Germans) with a large combined army; but Caepio refused. Caepio
    crossed the Rhone and boasted to his soldiers that he would bring
    help to the frightened consul; but he did not even want to discuss
    with him how to conduct the war, and he disdained to listen to the
    envoys whom the Senate sent, asking the generals to co-operate and
    jointly to protect the state. The Cimbri sent envoys to arrange a
    peace and to ask for land and for corn to sow, but he dismissed them
    so brusquely that they attacked the next day. His camp was situated
    not far away from Manlius' camp, but he could not be persuaded,
    though he was so close, to join together their armies. The greater
    part of the army was destroyed ... [the battle was fought] on the day
    before the nones of October. Rutilius Rufus says that at least 70,000
    regular troops and light-armed troops perished on this one day." - Granius Licianus, "Historia" 33.11-12

    "After the defeat of his army, Marcus Aurelius Scaurus, a deputy of the consul, was captured by the Cimbrians and called to their council, where he deterred them from crossing the Alps and going to Italy, saying that the Romans were unconquerable. He was killed by a savage young man, Boiorix. Defeated by the same enemies, consul Gnaeus Manlius and proconsul Quintus Servilius Caepio were stripped of both their camps; according to Valerius Antias, 80,000 soldiers and 40,000 servants and camp followers were killed near Arausio. Caepio, who had caused the defeat by his rashness, was convicted; his possessions were confiscated (for the first time since king Tarquinius) and his powers abrogated." - Livy, "History of Rome" LXVII

    On this day the Romans suffered one of the worst military defeats in their history, near Arausio, in 105 BC. The Cimbri and the Teutoni had invaded the Roman province of Transalpine Gaul about 110 bc. The consul Gnaeus Mallius Maximus was sent from Italy in 105 with an army to reinforce that of the proconsul Quintus Servilius Caepio and began negotiations with the invaders; while these were going on, Caepio attacked the Cimbri. He was overwhelmed, and the consul's army, drawn into the fighting, was also destroyed. Although the Cimbri and the Teutoni did not advance into Italy, the disaster and the need to raise new forces led to the multiple consulships of Marius and to his army reforms.

    Two of the major Roman forces available were camped out on the Rhone River, near Arausio: one led by the consul Gnaeus Mallius Maximus, and the other by the proconsul Quintus Servilius Caepio. As the consul of the year, Maximus was by law the senior commander of the combined armies. However, because Maximus was a novus homo and therefore lacked the noble background of the Roman aristocracy, Caepio refused to serve under him and made camp on the opposite side of the river.

    The initial contact between the two forces occurred when a detached picketing group under the legate Marcus Aurelius Scaurus met an advance party of the Cimbri. The Roman force was completely overwhelmed and the legate was captured and brought before Boiorix. Scaurus was not humbled by his capture and advised Boiorix to turn back before his people were destroyed by the Roman forces. The king of the Cimbri was indignant at this impudence and had Scaurus executed.

    Meanwhile, Maximus had managed to convince Caepio to move his force to the same side of the river, but Caepio still insisted on a different camp, and actually pitched his closer to the enemy. The sight of two Roman armies gave Boiorix pause for thought, and he entertained negotiations with Maximus.

    Caepio, presumably motivated into action by the thought that Maximus might be successful in negotiations and claim all the credit for a successful outcome, launched a unilateral attack on the Cimbri camp on 6 October. However, Caepio's force was annihilated due to the hasty nature of the assault and the tenacity of Cimbri defence. The Cimbri were also able to ransack Caepio's own camp, which had been left practically undefended.

    Valete!

    Cato
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70866 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

    The cost is not the cost of a researcher, but rather on getting legal action to force Internet Service providers (in SPAIN) to provide information to us.  Then the issue becomes a macronational investigation with attorneys and fees.  If someone is willing to bank-roll the thousands of $$ this will cost then I'm all for it.

    Otherwise provide what law was broken.

    Vale;

    Modianus 

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
     



    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter


    Surely, Censor Modianus,  this would be the answer. You have already requested the Senate to investigate. Here is someone willing to bear the cost of that, so it will cost the Republic nothing.

    You stated that consul Complutensis has denied any involvement in this yet you admit that  "He has already been convicted by public opinion of most people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished.  This is unfortunate"

    Here is a chance for him to clear his name and continue his political career. Surely it would be churlish in the extreme to deny him that.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula



    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70867 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

    How do you define ethics?  Honor?  Fides?  Do you take a deontological stance, teleological stance... what?  How do you define your own ethics to claim this is an ethics violation?  You'll have to do more to show me that it is a violation of ethics instead of just claiming it is.

    Recuse myself?  I don't accept your reasoning so you can abandon this line of reasoning.  What you seem to fail to grasp is that magistrates work in pairs, and an action by one magistrate without a veto from the other indicates at least tacit approval.  That is why we typically work in pairs.

    Vale;

    Modianus

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:
     

    Potitus Modiano SPD.

     

    I appreciate your concern for the Republic, but I disagree that this is “really a matter of etiquette”. It is actually a matter of ethics, honor and fides. It is a question of “conduct unbecoming” of a magistrate. If Complutensis created Pasquinus (during his weekend of meditation, after which he gave us the ridiculous story about plastic dice), and then lied about his action, then this clearly shows something of his character.

     

    Furthermore, I think you should recuse yourself from commenting on this matter, since you are too close to it. You were elected censor because Complutensis accepted your candidacy, told the people that your candidacy was perfectly legal, and ignored a tribune’s intercessio. If Complutensis is shown to be guilty of creating Pasquinus (and thus lying about *not* creating him), then that ethical lapse throws all of his earlier decisions into question, further adding to the questions surrounding your election.

     

    In addition, it is normal for consuls, upon completion of their terms, to run for censor. Would you support Complutensis to run for censor with an ethics violation hanging over his head?

     

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

     

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter.




    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70868 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Cn. Iulius Caesar K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano sal.
     
    I am not exactly certain why it is thought that the Lex Salicia poenalis doesn't apply. Surely you recall some offences under that lex that might apply? You drew up a petitio in the "trial" of Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus that included some (or maybe all?) of these:
     
    FALSVM (Fraud, Swindle, Perjury and Falsification): It shall be an offence knowingly and intentionally to provide false or misleading information to other persons or bodies in such a way as to hinder them in the fulfillment of their legal duties, to induce them to part with any property or surrender any right which is theirs, or to incite them to perform an action detrimental to their interests. This includes (but is not limited to) intentional lies in front of a legal Novoroman tribunalis and knowingly providing false information to a Novoroman magistrate.
    and of course that stock favorite:
     
    LAESA PATRIAE (Treason Against the Republic): The definition of laesa patriae includes, but is not limited to, any overt act by a citizen which a reasonable person would conclude to be damaging or defamatory to the republic, its religio, or its institutions, including acts which may expose the republic, its religio, or its institutions to macronational legal action, if such act is not legally authorised by the republic or its agents, and/or acts which endanger the ability of the republic, its religion, or its institutions to perform its legal functions;  
    not to mention this one:
     
    INIVRIA (Injury): It shall be an offence to intentionally strike a person or to damage or destroy his property contrary to law.
     
    Now granted Complutensis couldn't actually be prosecuted until his term of office was completed, but that wasn't the issue for the praetors. It was, was there a Nova Roman law that he could have broken. In other words is there even remotely any Nova Roman offence on the books that could apply to this situation. His guilt or innocence is a question for a jury to decide in the event he were prosecuted, so it seems that the focus of the praetorian inquiry into this matter must have been more concerned with the matters a praetor has to address under the PARS PRIMA: DE PETITIONE ACTIONIS stage of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria. There is nothing I can see in the evidence presented, that many contend indicates the person responsible was Complutensis, which stands out as clearly incongruent. Therefore I cannot see why everyone is busy typing away that no offences could have been committed. There are the three offences above from which a primary case could be made out. After all on far more flimsy and spurious "evidence", Cincinnatus was effectively destroyed in Nova Roma.
     
    Complutensis himself as Praetor in charge of the "trial" of Cincinnatus seemed quite comfortable with the notion that the "facts" in that proceeding constituted an iniuria - and if Cincinnatus by not granting you access to a Yahoo list is guilty of iniuria, I think that Complutensis himself should therefore be well able to understand that his alleged actions in this matter could equally be said to fit the definition of that offence, if not all three offences. He had the motive, the means, there exists evidence to implicate the use of his computer, the language used is supportive of the notion he was responsible, and the timing of his access to the censorial tools was sixteen minutes (I believe) apart from the sending of messages by the "sock puppet"  on the same IP as Complutensis. In addition the technical matters regarding the IP address, and how difficult it could be to hijack it, also are substantial. He is sui iuris and the alleged offences were conducted within an official Nova Roman forum. I am therefore somewhat at a loss to see why the evidence presented so far could be said to be incongruent, and thus there be no case to answer.  
     
    As to the effort and cost involved to prove the matter, well don't you rather think that is jumping the gun? Firstly Complutensis is still in office and cannot be charged, secondly no one has clearly stated they will prosecute him after his term is over, thirdly no formal assessment of any petitio has been conducted as it hasn't been drawn up and fourthly it is the responsibility of the person presenting a petitio to provide the evidence and bear any costs (not the Nova Roman state) in gather it.
     
    As to whether there is any point in prosecuting him, well it could devolve into another circus. It would be even harder to find an impartial jury. Depending on who was praetor, the evidence could end up being ruled inadmissible on spurious and inventive grounds, new legal principles invented to prove he didn't do it, or did do it. In short it would be likely a re-run of the trial of Cincinnatus. What would be the point you in essence ask? Well, how about to establish a principle that those in office who claim to have an interest in the ordered and well mannered conduct of Nova Roman matters in a public forum, don't surreptitiously erode those principles by masked posting? There are as many reasons why he should be prosecuted as there are reasons for not prosecuting him. Ultimately I think that it would end up being a whitewash, but it is not correct to say that there are no laws that may have been broken and no compelling reasons to take action, and from the case of Cincinnatus, clear precedents for doing so.
     
    Finally it would be, to some, deliciously ironic that Complutensis was fed into the same legal mangle that he fed Cincinnatus into, which the same measure of contempt, disregard, legal incorrectness and authoritarian high handedness. Two wrongs don't make a right, so they say, but others might think that finally Complutensis had been hoist by his own petard. That would be, very Roman.
     
    Personally, I couldn't be bothered to waste another four weeks of my life as I did in the 'trial" of Cincinnatus, to initiate a prosecution next year, but there maybe others who are willing to donate that time and assist in cranking the hand of our legal mangle.
     
     

    Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:00 AM
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

    Do you have any idea how much it would cost Nova Roma to do a thorough investigation?  I'm not talking about sitting at home looking up tech codes and such.  I'm talking about obtaining records from Internet providers and all the sort of legal investigations that are used to secure a legitimate verdict of guilt.  Far too much.  We have more pressing matters to worry about than whether or not a consul hid behind a screen name.  I have more than one e-mail address.  I don't go by Caeso Buteo in every venue I participate in.  The same logic that could be used to convict Complutensis could be used to show "double lives" of most of our citizens.  The difference is where the other e-mail addresses were used -- not within the same venue.
     
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70869 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Potitus Modiano SPD.

     

    The kind of investigation which you envision is not needed here. It is merely another version of “we need 100% proof”. The evidence already presented by qualified professionals is satisfactory to show (beyond a reasonable doubt) that Complutensis created Pasquinus. No evidence to the contrary has been presented. The costs of an investigation would be minimal.

     

    Please do not keep repeating “what law was broken”. That has been answered multiple times—no Nova Roma law has been broken. This is an ethics violation, “conduct unbecoming”.

     

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
    Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:02 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

    The cost is not the cost of a researcher, but rather on getting legal action to force Internet Service providers (in SPAIN ) to provide information to us.  Then the issue becomes a macronational investigation with attorneys and fees.  If someone is willing to bank-roll the thousands of $$ this will cost then I'm all for it.

    Otherwise provide what law was broken.

    Vale;

    Modianus 

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan @...> wrote:

     

     

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@cox. net> wrote:

     

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter


    Surely, Censor Modianus,  this would be the answer. You have already requested the Senate to investigate. Here is someone willing to bear the cost of that, so it will cost the Republic nothing.

    You stated that consul Complutensis has denied any involvement in this yet you admit that  "He has already been convicted by public opinion of most people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished.  This is unfortunate"

    Here is a chance for him to clear his name and continue his political career. Surely it would be churlish in the extreme to deny him that.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula

     

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70870 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Salve Nero,
    probably the translation as "cotton" of the word used by Pliny is only conjectural. Apparently there is a material mentioned by some sources (I think Plinius is one of them) which has been identified as cotton because it came from India. (Sorry, I'm not at home so I can't give you the word).
    As it happens, it could mean anything, but more probably a type of silk.
    As I said, there is no evidence that cotton was ever used.
    Personally I think it would have made no sense at all to import cotton from India, at a great expense, when it is hard to tell from linen, which could be had much more cheaply. Cotton was as hard to dye as linen, so meant no substantial improvement.
    Personally I wouldn't have bought it, whatever the exotic allure, and I suspect its market potential was very close to zero in the Roman world.

    Silk, on the other hand, is another matter: there you have something that can be dyed bright colours, like wool, but is much thinner and versatile.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve,
    > In Pliny's Natural History he mentions the use of cotton for clothes.
    > While I will admit that wool was used most often if Pliny knew of cotton then common sense says the Romans used it for clothing.
    > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > Nero
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Nero,
    > > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    > > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
    > >
    > > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
    > >
    > > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    > > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
    > >
    > > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
    > >
    > > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
    > >
    > > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
    > >
    > > Optime vale,
    > > Livia
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Salve,
    > > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > > Nero
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > > > >
    > > > > Optime vale,
    > > > > Livia
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > > > and video:
    > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > > > Vale
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70871 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

    Modiane, you should read my earlier posts about the ethics violation.

     

    You should recuse yourself because you have a vested interest in the outsome.

     

    I see you ignored my question on whether you would support Complutensis if he ran for censor.

     

    Potitus

     


    From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
    Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:05 AM
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

     

     

    Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

    How do you define ethics?  Honor?  Fides?  Do you take a deontological stance, teleological stance... what?  How do you define your own ethics to claim this is an ethics violation?  You'll have to do more to show me that it is a violation of ethics instead of just claiming it is.

    Recuse myself?  I don't accept your reasoning so you can abandon this line of reasoning.  What you seem to fail to grasp is that magistrates work in pairs, and an action by one magistrate without a veto from the other indicates at least tacit approval.  That is why we typically work in pairs.

    Vale;

    Modianus

    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@cox. net> wrote:

     

    Potitus Modiano SPD.

     

    I appreciate your concern for the Republic, but I disagree that this is “really a matter of etiquette”. It is actually a matter of ethics, honor and fides. It is a question of “conduct unbecoming” of a magistrate. If Complutensis created Pasquinus (during his weekend of meditation, after which he gave us the ridiculous story about plastic dice), and then lied about his action, then this clearly shows something of his character.

     

    Furthermore, I think you should recuse yourself from commenting on this matter, since you are too close to it. You were elected censor because Complutensis accepted your candidacy, told the people that your candidacy was perfectly legal, and ignored a tribune’s intercessio. If Complutensis is shown to be guilty of creating Pasquinus (and thus lying about *not* creating him), then that ethical lapse throws all of his earlier decisions into question, further adding to the questions surrounding your election.

     

    In addition, it is normal for consuls, upon completion of their terms, to run for censor. Would you support Complutensis to run for censor with an ethics violation hanging over his head?

     

    As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.

     

    In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a “nothing to see here, move along” attitude to this matter.

     

     

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70872 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Livia Potito omnibusque sal.

    Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.

    I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.

    On the other hand, there is hard evidence, provided by police investigation, that the computer system at Complutensis' workplace was hacked into, and that Complutensis was so careless as to use remote access software for his home computer, which can easily have been exploited by Pasquinus.

    All this proves is that remote access software, the kind of software that allows you to use your home computer from any other computer on the internet, is very dangerous, and no password is safe enough.

    Let's repeat it for clarity's sake:

    WARNING: USING REMOTE ACCESS SOFTWARE IS NEVER SAFE, WHATEVER GOOD PASSWORD YOU THINK YOU HAVE, AND LEAVES YOUR COMPUTER EXPOSED TO HACKING.

    In order to have "harder" evidence than this one would need an investigation by the internet provider company, Telefonica, which can only give this kind of information after a court order.

    I know Americans like suing, but spending thousands of euros for a trial because of this matter of Pasquinus would be frankly ridiculous.

    Optime valete,
    Livia

    >
    > Potitus Modiano SPD.
    >
    >
    >
    > The kind of investigation which you envision is not needed here. It is
    > merely another version of "we need 100% proof". The evidence already
    > presented by qualified professionals is satisfactory to show (beyond a
    > reasonable doubt) that Complutensis created Pasquinus. No evidence to the
    > contrary has been presented. The costs of an investigation would be minimal.
    >
    >
    >
    > Please do not keep repeating "what law was broken". That has been answered
    > multiple times-no Nova Roma law has been broken. This is an ethics
    > violation, "conduct unbecoming".
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _____
    >
    > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
    > Of David Kling
    > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:02 AM
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
    >
    > The cost is not the cost of a researcher, but rather on getting legal action
    > to force Internet Service providers (in SPAIN) to provide information to us.
    > Then the issue becomes a macronational investigation with attorneys and
    > fees. If someone is willing to bank-roll the thousands of $$ this will cost
    > then I'm all for it.
    >
    > Otherwise provide what law was broken.
    >
    > Vale;
    >
    > Modianus
    >
    > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan
    > <mailto:kirsteen.falconsfan@...> @...> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@cox.
    > <mailto:astrobear@...> net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to
    > lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear
    > all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.
    >
    > In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a "nothing
    > to see here, move along" attitude to this matter
    >
    >
    > Surely, Censor Modianus, this would be the answer. You have already
    > requested the Senate to investigate. Here is someone willing to bear the
    > cost of that, so it will cost the Republic nothing.
    >
    > You stated that consul Complutensis has denied any involvement in this yet
    > you admit that "He has already been convicted by public opinion of most
    > people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished. This
    > is unfortunate"
    >
    > Here is a chance for him to clear his name and continue his political
    > career. Surely it would be churlish in the extreme to deny him that.
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=6288039/grpspId=1705313712/msgId
    > =70864/stime=1254837183/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3>
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70873 From: gosystemtrainer Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    >>I wonder... I truly do... when Nova Roma will mature into a community that strives to stick together and work together. Instead of being a divisive group of people bent on fighting about everything.<<

    Unfortunately, that day will be never.

    Valete.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70874 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Caesar sal.

    "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter,"

    Incorrect. Given my training and employment I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in such matters of statement analysis.





    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
    >
    > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
    >
    > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70875 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Livia,

    where is this hard evidence?

    Where is the police report that both Compy's home and work computer had been hacked? Nothing has ever been presented - and I have called for it in the senate and on the ML.

    If there is such a report the senate should see it. Given the confidential information he had access to within NR and outside of NR - the Senate should demand to see that report immediately.

    As Marcus Octavius pointed out REPEATEDLY, Compy was reviewing the confidential information of Governor Potitus and Senator Cato (known adversaries of the consul) just minutes before posting as the sockpuppet.

    So, let's see the entire/unabridged police report.

    Vale,

    Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
    >
    > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
    >
    > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    >
    > On the other hand, there is hard evidence, provided by police investigation, that the computer system at Complutensis' workplace was hacked into, and that Complutensis was so careless as to use remote access software for his home computer, which can easily have been exploited by Pasquinus.
    >
    > All this proves is that remote access software, the kind of software that allows you to use your home computer from any other computer on the internet, is very dangerous, and no password is safe enough.
    >
    > Let's repeat it for clarity's sake:
    >
    > WARNING: USING REMOTE ACCESS SOFTWARE IS NEVER SAFE, WHATEVER GOOD PASSWORD YOU THINK YOU HAVE, AND LEAVES YOUR COMPUTER EXPOSED TO HACKING.
    >
    > In order to have "harder" evidence than this one would need an investigation by the internet provider company, Telefonica, which can only give this kind of information after a court order.
    >
    > I know Americans like suing, but spending thousands of euros for a trial because of this matter of Pasquinus would be frankly ridiculous.
    >
    > Optime valete,
    > Livia
    >
    > >
    > > Potitus Modiano SPD.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The kind of investigation which you envision is not needed here. It is
    > > merely another version of "we need 100% proof". The evidence already
    > > presented by qualified professionals is satisfactory to show (beyond a
    > > reasonable doubt) that Complutensis created Pasquinus. No evidence to the
    > > contrary has been presented. The costs of an investigation would be minimal.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Please do not keep repeating "what law was broken". That has been answered
    > > multiple times-no Nova Roma law has been broken. This is an ethics
    > > violation, "conduct unbecoming".
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > _____
    > >
    > > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
    > > Of David Kling
    > > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:02 AM
    > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
    > >
    > > The cost is not the cost of a researcher, but rather on getting legal action
    > > to force Internet Service providers (in SPAIN) to provide information to us.
    > > Then the issue becomes a macronational investigation with attorneys and
    > > fees. If someone is willing to bank-roll the thousands of $$ this will cost
    > > then I'm all for it.
    > >
    > > Otherwise provide what law was broken.
    > >
    > > Vale;
    > >
    > > Modianus
    > >
    > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan
    > > <mailto:kirsteen.falconsfan@> @...> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@cox.
    > > <mailto:astrobear@> net> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > As for the cost of a thorough investigation, I have volunteered my time to
    > > lead the investigation. I now publicly announce that I will personally bear
    > > all the costs of such an investigation. It will cost the Republic $0.00.
    > >
    > > In short, it would be a great disservice to the Republic to take a "nothing
    > > to see here, move along" attitude to this matter
    > >
    > >
    > > Surely, Censor Modianus, this would be the answer. You have already
    > > requested the Senate to investigate. Here is someone willing to bear the
    > > cost of that, so it will cost the Republic nothing.
    > >
    > > You stated that consul Complutensis has denied any involvement in this yet
    > > you admit that "He has already been convicted by public opinion of most
    > > people, to the point that his political life in Nova Roma is finished. This
    > > is unfortunate"
    > >
    > > Here is a chance for him to clear his name and continue his political
    > > career. Surely it would be churlish in the extreme to deny him that.
    > >
    > > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=6288039/grpspId=1705313712/msgId
    > > =70864/stime=1254837183/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3>
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70876 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    I take it your are being ironic - as you are normally prone to do- per Cornelius Lentulus.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > C. Petronius Fl. Lucillae s.p.d.,
    >
    > > > Surely it's a question not of which law has been broken but of 'public
    > > morality'.
    >
    > But when the gang of the back alley talk about public morality, we must laugh.
    >
    > Vale.
    > C. Petronius Dexter
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70877 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Livia Caesari sal.

    Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where biassed people like you have expert status.

    All the analysis demonstrated was that both Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.


    >
    > Caesar sal.
    >
    > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter,"
    >
    > Incorrect. Given my training and employment I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in such matters of statement analysis.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
    > >
    > > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
    > >
    > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70878 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Are you implying that he would risk real world repercussions by lying and deception - when this is what he does for a living?

    Bizarro world. This is freaking bizarro world.

    Vale,

    Sulla

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Livia Caesari sal.
    >
    > Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where biassed people like you have expert status.
    >
    > All the analysis demonstrated was that both Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > Caesar sal.
    > >
    > > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter,"
    > >
    > > Incorrect. Given my training and employment I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in such matters of statement analysis.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
    > > >
    > > > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
    > > >
    > > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70879 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Livia.

    Ah but we aren't talking about the application of my profession in the macro world, just the use of simple techniques to identify similiarities. No one need be an expert to see that in this case - it was all very obvious, except to those with a bag of blindness over their head, intent on obfusticating the matter.

    Within my professional field I have no vested stake. Here, like you, I do, but the analysis in this case was a simple matter of comparing the use of certain phrases. That wasn't an interpretation, just a simple matter of finding similar phrases used by the Consul. The core of the matter however lies with the IP issues.

    Within Nova Roma many are biased - including you. You go to great lengths to convince everyone in this case that black is white.

    As for Canada and the US references, it doesn't surprise me that you continue on with your usual assertions that anything to do with the US legal system is rotten. I think if you look to Europe and its various legal systems, you will find examples of injustice, of bias, of corruption. It is a human condition, and Europeans are not immune to it - despite the snobbish implied assertion that anything European has an edge over anything on this side of the Atlantic.

    Vale
    Caesar

    P.S. Your non-arival in Canada is equally welcome.

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Livia Caesari sal.
    >
    > Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where biassed people like you have expert status.
    >
    > All the analysis demonstrated was that both Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > Caesar sal.
    > >
    > > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter,"
    > >
    > > Incorrect. Given my training and employment I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in such matters of statement analysis.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
    > > >
    > > > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
    > > >
    > > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70880 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:00 PM, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

     the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.

    I really, genuinely would love to know what you base that statement on. As I've previously stated I'm not an IT expert and am not qualified to give my opinion on that.

    However here in the UK that very question went to our highest courts of appeal. After extensive research into the subject, the ruling was that, though computers could be hacked, IP addresses COULD NOT be forged, (It was a paedophile trying to argue that his computer had been hacked, therefor it wasn't him who had downloaded the images of child pornography)

    funnily enough, in a separate appeal (same paedophile ring) one man appealed on the grounds that although his credit card had paid for the pornography, his details had been hacked. The ruling, in that case, was that since the Police had not bothered to trace the IP address (THE ONLY INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF) then it was possible that his financial details had been hacked and he was acquitted.

    I would genuinely love to know the argument that IP addresses are not foolproof.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70881 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Salve,

    I can see what you mean from you saying the ancients had problems dying cotton but I will not believe that they didn't have cotton because they didn't want to ship it from India.
    With the spice route there was a set route from India to Rome it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they could've sent textiles through the route.
    Further you're assuming that the Romans dyed the cloth themselves, would it be so hard to ship fabric pre dyed?
    The Indus valley has had use of cotton since the fourth century BCE
    and according to my source cotton use spread from the east to the Mediterranean before the calender switched to CE.
    If the Romans were willing to ship silk from (A) a country that further then India and (B) Banned by the senate because of it's luxury then I can see no reason why they did not use cotton.
    Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
    Nero


    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Nero,
    > probably the translation as "cotton" of the word used by Pliny is only conjectural. Apparently there is a material mentioned by some sources (I think Plinius is one of them) which has been identified as cotton because it came from India. (Sorry, I'm not at home so I can't give you the word).
    > As it happens, it could mean anything, but more probably a type of silk.
    > As I said, there is no evidence that cotton was ever used.
    > Personally I think it would have made no sense at all to import cotton from India, at a great expense, when it is hard to tell from linen, which could be had much more cheaply. Cotton was as hard to dye as linen, so meant no substantial improvement.
    > Personally I wouldn't have bought it, whatever the exotic allure, and I suspect its market potential was very close to zero in the Roman world.
    >
    > Silk, on the other hand, is another matter: there you have something that can be dyed bright colours, like wool, but is much thinner and versatile.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > > In Pliny's Natural History he mentions the use of cotton for clothes.
    > > While I will admit that wool was used most often if Pliny knew of cotton then common sense says the Romans used it for clothing.
    > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > Nero
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Salve Nero,
    > > > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    > > > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
    > > >
    > > > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
    > > >
    > > > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    > > > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
    > > >
    > > > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
    > > >
    > > > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
    > > >
    > > > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
    > > >
    > > > Optime vale,
    > > > Livia
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve,
    > > > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > > > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > > > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > > > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > > > Nero
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Optime vale,
    > > > > > Livia
    > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > > > > and video:
    > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > > > > Vale
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70882 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Ave,

    > > Ah but it wasn't the Back Alley who claimed it was a matter of public
    > morality - it was Censor Modianus. I quote again his post of June 28th

    > "We have contacted the praetores..."

    He said "we", he did not say "I".

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70883 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:


    He said "we", he did not say "I".

    Yeah but 'we' does tend to include 'I'.  So I don't quite get your point here, sorry.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70884 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Lucilla,
    well, the answer is simple enough. If I used a remote access software to access my computer from other computers connected to the internet, all you'd have to do would be get hold of my username (in some cases this is the email address) and password, and you could use my computer to send messages. Any message you send this way would have my computer's IP address, because it was sent by my computer.

    I hope this is easier to understand than any statement by self-appointed "experts".

    Optime vale,
    Livia


    >
    > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 4:00 PM, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
    > >
    > > I really, genuinely would love to know what you base that statement on. As
    > I've previously stated I'm not an IT expert and am not qualified to give my
    > opinion on that.
    >
    > However here in the UK that very question went to our highest courts of
    > appeal. After extensive research into the subject, the ruling was that,
    > though computers could be hacked, IP addresses COULD NOT be forged, (It was
    > a paedophile trying to argue that his computer had been hacked, therefor it
    > wasn't him who had downloaded the images of child pornography)
    >
    > funnily enough, in a separate appeal (same paedophile ring) one man appealed
    > on the grounds that although his credit card had paid for the pornography,
    > his details had been hacked. The ruling, in that case, was that since the
    > Police had not bothered to trace the IP address (THE ONLY INCONTROVERTIBLE
    > PROOF) then it was possible that his financial details had been hacked and
    > he was acquitted.
    >
    > I would genuinely love to know the argument that IP addresses are not
    > foolproof.
    >
    > Flavia Lucilla Merula
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70885 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    Salve Merula.
     
    My guess is is he is attempting to say that the actions were initiated by Paulinus and that somehow Modianus was always divorced from any responsibility for the actions taken.
     
    It is a version of the Nuremberg defence. Instead of "I was only following orders", it is "I was just an innocent bystander in the Censors' office and wasn't responsible for the actions my colleague took" (despite Modianus having typed the email and used 'we"<lol>).
     
    Vale bene
    Caesar

    --- On Tue, 10/6/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:

    From: Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...>
    Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:21 PM





    On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:


    He said "we", he did not say "I".

    Yeah but 'we' does tend to include 'I'.  So I don't quite get your point here, sorry.

    Flavia Lucilla Merula


    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70886 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
    Cato Galerio Paulino sal.

    Salve.

    I'm willing to donate money to purchase this as well.

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Salve Maior,
    >
    > (SIGH)
    >
    > If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
    >
    > My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
    >
    > Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro.com/memberties/
    >
    >
    >
    > It cost between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
    >
    > This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
    >
    > Vale
    >
    > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > From: rory12001@...
    > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salve Pompeia;
    > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
    >
    > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
    >
    > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
    >
    > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
    >
    >
    > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
    > vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Lentule:
    > >
    > > Thank you for the update.
    > >
    > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
    > >
    > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
    > >
    > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
    > >
    > > Vale
    > > Pompeia
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
    > > >
    > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
    > > >
    > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70887 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Salve Nero,
    you missed my point, which was that it wasn't worth importing cotton, because it would be much more expensive than linen, while having essentially the same properties.

    Any vegetable fiber is very hard to dye using vegetabie lyes, and the most you get is pale pastel colours. This is valid for everywhere, including India. The notable exception to this rule is indigo, which apparently can dye well even vegetable fibers. So at most it could have made sense to import blue cotton. But the same blue colour in the West was obtained with an european plant, which has the same dying agent, but in a lesser concentration. Both are the most expensive vegetable dyes, and also very expensive to use because of the need to use chemical agents with them. The same chemicals which have to be used with purple, because it has a similar chemical composition. Purple was the other dye that could be used with success on vegetable fibers, but I don't need to remind you how expensive it was.

    If I'm going to use a very expensive dye, I will use it on the less expensive local linen, instead of importing cotton from India, which isn't even as resistant a fabric.

    So if cotton was imported (and the only "proof" is one word of uncertain interpretation) it must have remained marginal.

    This, however, doesn't affect the matter of togas, a conservative garment, made of wool.

    Optime vale,
    Livia

    >
    > Salve,
    >
    > I can see what you mean from you saying the ancients had problems dying cotton but I will not believe that they didn't have cotton because they didn't want to ship it from India.
    > With the spice route there was a set route from India to Rome it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they could've sent textiles through the route.
    > Further you're assuming that the Romans dyed the cloth themselves, would it be so hard to ship fabric pre dyed?
    > The Indus valley has had use of cotton since the fourth century BCE
    > and according to my source cotton use spread from the east to the Mediterranean before the calender switched to CE.
    > If the Romans were willing to ship silk from (A) a country that further then India and (B) Banned by the senate because of it's luxury then I can see no reason why they did not use cotton.
    > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
    > Nero
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > >
    > > Salve Nero,
    > > probably the translation as "cotton" of the word used by Pliny is only conjectural. Apparently there is a material mentioned by some sources (I think Plinius is one of them) which has been identified as cotton because it came from India. (Sorry, I'm not at home so I can't give you the word).
    > > As it happens, it could mean anything, but more probably a type of silk.
    > > As I said, there is no evidence that cotton was ever used.
    > > Personally I think it would have made no sense at all to import cotton from India, at a great expense, when it is hard to tell from linen, which could be had much more cheaply. Cotton was as hard to dye as linen, so meant no substantial improvement.
    > > Personally I wouldn't have bought it, whatever the exotic allure, and I suspect its market potential was very close to zero in the Roman world.
    > >
    > > Silk, on the other hand, is another matter: there you have something that can be dyed bright colours, like wool, but is much thinner and versatile.
    > >
    > > Optime vale,
    > > Livia
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Salve,
    > > > In Pliny's Natural History he mentions the use of cotton for clothes.
    > > > While I will admit that wool was used most often if Pliny knew of cotton then common sense says the Romans used it for clothing.
    > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > > Nero
    > > >
    > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve Nero,
    > > > > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    > > > > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
    > > > >
    > > > > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
    > > > >
    > > > > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    > > > > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
    > > > >
    > > > > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
    > > > >
    > > > > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
    > > > >
    > > > > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
    > > > >
    > > > > Optime vale,
    > > > > Livia
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Salve,
    > > > > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > > > > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > > > > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > > > > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > > > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > > > > Nero
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > > > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Optime vale,
    > > > > > > Livia
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > > > > > and video:
    > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > > > > > Vale
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70888 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    C. Petronius Potito s.p.d.,

    > I appreciate your concern for the Republic, but I disagree that this is "really a matter of etiquette". It is actually a matter of ethics, honor and fides. It is a question of "conduct unbecoming" of a magistrate.<

    We know you have an high sense of yourself and of the conduct of a magistrate. You resigned your quaestorship following a hysterical little moment whose quickly you were sorry of but it was too late.

    Vale.
    C. Petronius Dexter
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70889 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: My Introduction
    Cato David sal.

    Salve!

    And welcome.

    What I might suggest is writing to either (or both) Galerius Paulinus or Fabius Modianus, our censors, with your ideas after having read through the naming guide as you have. They may not have all the censors' tols available but they both can help you along to prepare for your official naming request.

    Vale!

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Maior,
    >
    >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
    >
    >                                                                                                  David
    >
    >
    >       
    >
    > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:
    >
    > De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
    > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Salvete Davide;
    >
    > please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
    >
    >
    >
    > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
    >
    >
    >
    > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
    >
    >
    >
    > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
    >
    > optime vale
    >
    > Maior
    >
    >
    >
    > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
    >
    > >
    >
    > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
    >
    > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
    >
    > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
    >
    > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >  
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Salve Davide;
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
    >
    > >
    >
    > > bene vale in pacem Veneris
    >
    > >
    >
    > > M. Hortensia Maior
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > Greetings Everyone,
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > > David
    >
    > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
    >
    > > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    >
    > > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
    >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ____________________________________________________________________________________
    > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70890 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
    >
    > Are you implying that he would risk real world repercussions by lying and deception - when this is what he does for a living?
    >
    > Bizarro world. This is freaking bizarro world.
    >


    You forgot to call her a despicable human being like you did in the back alley.


    -Anna
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70891 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: Salvete
    Salve, my toga is from wool. It's wery cosy ahd warm, especially in the winter, when I was invited to a roman saturnalia in St. Petersberg:
    vale.

    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70892 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
    Cato Liviae Plautae Iunio Neroni SPD

    Salvete.

    While Livia Plauta is absolutely correct that having a toga is not strictly necessary, remember that the toga was the distinctive mark of the Roman citizen and can be worn with great pride by any citizen.

    It is an interesting question about whether the only true material for a toga was wool. Are there sources that give us evidence of this?

    Valete,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salve Nero,
    > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
    > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
    >
    > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
    >
    > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
    > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
    >
    > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
    >
    > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
    >
    > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
    >
    > Optime vale,
    > Livia
    >
    > >
    > > Salve,
    > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
    > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
    > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
    > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
    > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
    > > Nero
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Salve Sulpici,
    > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
    > > >
    > > > Optime vale,
    > > > Livia
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Salve, fratre!
    > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
    > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
    > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
    > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
    > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
    > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
    > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
    > > > > and video:
    > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
    > > > > Vale
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70893 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
    Subject: Re: Salvete!
    Cato C. Sulpicio Votae sal.

    Salve!

    And welcome to you as well :)

    Vale,

    Cato

    --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Vota <j_vota_9@...> wrote:
    >
    > Salvete,
    >
    > I am G. Sulpicius Vota. i shall help you in anyway I can, and welcome.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________
    > From: slasher_tb <slasher_tb@...>
    > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
    > Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:45:51 PM
    > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Salvete!
    >
    >  
    > Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!
    >
    > Thanks!
    >