Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Oct 6-11, 2009.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70893 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70894 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70895 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70896 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70897 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70898 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70899 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70900 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70901 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70902 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70903 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70904 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70905 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70906 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Alembic and Herbalism Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Turin Exhibit -- Ancient R
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70907 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70908 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70909 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70910 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70911 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70912 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70913 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70914 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70915 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70916 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70917 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70918 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70919 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70920 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70921 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70922 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70923 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70924 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70925 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70926 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70927 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70928 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70929 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70930 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70931 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70933 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Non. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70934 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70935 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70936 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70937 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70938 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70939 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Sacrum Iunonis Covellae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70940 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70941 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70942 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70943 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70944 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Academics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70945 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Academics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70946 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70947 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70948 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70949 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70950 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70951 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70952 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70953 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70954 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70955 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70956 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70957 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70958 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70959 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70961 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70962 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70963 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70964 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: slightly OT: language learning sites
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70965 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70966 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70967 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70968 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70969 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70970 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70971 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70972 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70973 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70974 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70975 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70976 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70977 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70978 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70979 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70980 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70981 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70982 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70983 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70984 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70985 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70986 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70987 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70988 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70989 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: a.d. VIII Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70990 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70991 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70992 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70993 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70994 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70995 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70996 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70997 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70998 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70999 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71000 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71001 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71002 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71003 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71004 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71005 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71006 From: tiberiusgaleriuspaulinus Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71007 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71008 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71009 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71010 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71011 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71012 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71013 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71014 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71015 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71016 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71017 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: On Goebbels, propaganda and political debate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71018 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71019 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71020 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71021 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71022 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71023 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71024 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71025 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please stop this stupid fights?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71026 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please show Unity not Division!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71027 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please show Unity not Division!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71028 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71029 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Latin Phrase of the Day
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71030 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Three new books on Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71031 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71032 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Neptunus Has Arrived!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71033 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71034 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71035 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71036 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71037 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71038 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71039 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman cookery
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71040 From: Shoshana Hathaway Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71041 From: Shoshana Hathaway Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71042 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71043 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71044 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71045 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71046 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71047 From: (no author) Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: (no subject)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71048 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71049 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71050 From: ugo21121970 Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71051 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction + For Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71052 From: Solomon Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71053 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Citizen
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71054 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71055 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Latin Phrase of the Day
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71056 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71057 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71058 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71059 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct. - pls care the off-topic developments!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71060 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: a.d. V Id. Oct.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71061 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Ethics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71062 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Latin phrase of the day.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71063 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71064 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: My Introduction + For Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71065 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71066 From: M.C.C. Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: MEMENTO: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71067 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71069 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: MEMENTO: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71070 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71071 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70893 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete!
Cato C. Sulpicio Votae sal.

Salve!

And welcome to you as well :)

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Vota <j_vota_9@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am G. Sulpicius Vota. i shall help you in anyway I can, and welcome.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: slasher_tb <slasher_tb@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:45:51 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Salvete!
>
>  
> Salvete all of you! I'm new to the site and new to Nova Roma. I wonder if someone could be so kind as to guide me a little bit. I'm very much excited of being here!
>
> Thanks!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70894 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: Salvete
Salvete;
Saturnalia in St. Petersburg now that sounds fabulous. It really is amazing how warm that wool is and how clever the construction of the toga to keep you warm.
Great photo, Celsus.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Popov <vld_popov@...> wrote:
>
> Salve, my toga is from wool. It's wery cosy ahd warm, especially in the winter, when I was invited to a roman saturnalia in St. Petersberg:
> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_q-6c32iqdjI/SVAM5u95kyI/AAAAAAAABKI/jBrZY9WU0g8/s512/CIMG2830.JPG
> vale.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70895 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Ave,

> Yeah but 'we' does tend to include 'I'. So I don't quite get your point here, sorry.<

Only the kings said "we" for "I".

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70896 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
C. Petronius L. Sullae s.p.d.,

Potitus said my "irony is known as legendary" and you think that "I am being ironic..." citing Cornelius Lentulus. I wonder what Cornelius Lentulus said you in this sewer, that is your back alley, but if you give him credit it is your problem. In my opinion, Cornelius Lentulus had an annual religious report to do instead of to spend his time with individuals like you.

So I understand how your gang is working. As Livia Plauta says you repeat a false thing with the hope that it becomes true.

I am not ironic at all. I am sure that your goal is not the good of Nova Roma neither a virtuous struggle for ethics, to understand that it is enough to read your messages and appreciate the choice of your words.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70897 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Ave carissime Cato,

> I'm willing to donate money to purchase this as well.

As christian, mehercule, you must donate money to the poors!

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70898 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete.

Once again, a completely unwarranted reference to my sacra privata. Read carefully, those of you who constantly complain that *I* bring it up it all the time.

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ave carissime Cato,
>
> > I'm willing to donate money to purchase this as well.
>
> As christian, mehercule, you must donate money to the poors!
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70899 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salvete Anna;
I see they brought out Gn. Iulius Caesar to help with the BA bullying.

This is the curule aedile who abandoned our first conventus, just did absolutely nothing until Lucia Julia Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus, stepped in at the last moment and made arrangements so it could happen in August.

Potitus resigns his questorship in a huff
Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the Conventus
Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney General for 0 reason.

These are the people criticizing...it is utterly ridiculous.
vale
Maior












--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Are you implying that he would risk real world repercussions by lying and deception - when this is what he does for a living?
> >
> > Bizarro world. This is freaking bizarro world.
> >
>
>
> You forgot to call her a despicable human being like you did in the back alley.
>
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70900 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
If you guys are willing to waste money on this, then why don't you just do it?

Go ahead and hire a private investogator, pay all the legal fees, and do it. Stop whining about it on the Main List and do it already!

-Anna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Galerio Paulino sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> I'm willing to donate money to purchase this as well.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve Maior,
> >
> > (SIGH)
> >
> > If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
> >
> > My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
> >
> > Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro.com/memberties/
> >
> >
> >
> > It cost between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
> >
> > This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > From: rory12001@
> > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Pompeia;
> > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
> >
> > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
> >
> > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
> >
> > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
> >
> >
> > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
> > vale
> >
> > Maior
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Lentule:
> > >
> > > Thank you for the update.
> > >
> > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
> > >
> > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
> > >
> > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > > Pompeia
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
> > > >
> > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
> > > >
> > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70901 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:46 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

Ave,

> Yeah but 'we' does tend to include 'I'.  So I don't quite get your point here, sorry.<

Only the kings said "we" for "I".

Yes, I didn't accuse him of using the Royal 'we'.  However as I said 'we' includes 'I' as in I, myself and one or more others so I still totally fail to see the point you're trying to make, sorry. Censor Modianus was the one who wrote the email. Now I accept that he said "'we' are concerned with the public morality of this concern"  but, surely, the fact that he was concerned was enough, regardless of how many other people were also concerned?

Flavia Lucilla Merula


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70902 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Ave David,

>I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

The Latin word for rabbit is cuniculus. But this word never was used as a Roman name. It seems that cuniculus is coming from an Iberic word coniclos according to Elianus and Pliny the Elder. The cousin of the rabbit, the hare, is said in Latin lepus (leporis) and it also was never used to make Roman names. Perhaps because rabbit and hare were animals "de mauvais augure" (V. Vaillant, Slavia, 9, p.497, avec le renvoi à Shrader-Nehring, Reallexikon, sous hase).

Vale
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70903 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Wool togas (was: Re: Salvete)
Salve,
Fine I'll just be itchy Gods forbid if we modernize.
Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
Nero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Nero,
> you missed my point, which was that it wasn't worth importing cotton, because it would be much more expensive than linen, while having essentially the same properties.
>
> Any vegetable fiber is very hard to dye using vegetabie lyes, and the most you get is pale pastel colours. This is valid for everywhere, including India. The notable exception to this rule is indigo, which apparently can dye well even vegetable fibers. So at most it could have made sense to import blue cotton. But the same blue colour in the West was obtained with an european plant, which has the same dying agent, but in a lesser concentration. Both are the most expensive vegetable dyes, and also very expensive to use because of the need to use chemical agents with them. The same chemicals which have to be used with purple, because it has a similar chemical composition. Purple was the other dye that could be used with success on vegetable fibers, but I don't need to remind you how expensive it was.
>
> If I'm going to use a very expensive dye, I will use it on the less expensive local linen, instead of importing cotton from India, which isn't even as resistant a fabric.
>
> So if cotton was imported (and the only "proof" is one word of uncertain interpretation) it must have remained marginal.
>
> This, however, doesn't affect the matter of togas, a conservative garment, made of wool.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I can see what you mean from you saying the ancients had problems dying cotton but I will not believe that they didn't have cotton because they didn't want to ship it from India.
> > With the spice route there was a set route from India to Rome it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume they could've sent textiles through the route.
> > Further you're assuming that the Romans dyed the cloth themselves, would it be so hard to ship fabric pre dyed?
> > The Indus valley has had use of cotton since the fourth century BCE
> > and according to my source cotton use spread from the east to the Mediterranean before the calender switched to CE.
> > If the Romans were willing to ship silk from (A) a country that further then India and (B) Banned by the senate because of it's luxury then I can see no reason why they did not use cotton.
> > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
> > Nero
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Nero,
> > > probably the translation as "cotton" of the word used by Pliny is only conjectural. Apparently there is a material mentioned by some sources (I think Plinius is one of them) which has been identified as cotton because it came from India. (Sorry, I'm not at home so I can't give you the word).
> > > As it happens, it could mean anything, but more probably a type of silk.
> > > As I said, there is no evidence that cotton was ever used.
> > > Personally I think it would have made no sense at all to import cotton from India, at a great expense, when it is hard to tell from linen, which could be had much more cheaply. Cotton was as hard to dye as linen, so meant no substantial improvement.
> > > Personally I wouldn't have bought it, whatever the exotic allure, and I suspect its market potential was very close to zero in the Roman world.
> > >
> > > Silk, on the other hand, is another matter: there you have something that can be dyed bright colours, like wool, but is much thinner and versatile.
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Salve,
> > > > In Pliny's Natural History he mentions the use of cotton for clothes.
> > > > While I will admit that wool was used most often if Pliny knew of cotton then common sense says the Romans used it for clothing.
> > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
> > > > Nero
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salve Nero,
> > > > > I use linen, silk, hemp (rarely, because it's hard to find) and wool to make my Roman clothes.
> > > > > Cotton is the cheapest option, but it's not historically correct, because there's no evidence Romans had it. We did have to use it with Lentulus when we needed 10 togas for Floralia this year, because making them all out of wool, or even linen would have been impossibly expensive, but we took care to choose fabric that could be mistaken for wool at a distance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Togas were a very conservative piece of clothing, and all evidence points to the fact that they were woolen. Of course, they were also quite uncomfortable, and that's why they were only worn on formal occasions. Apparently their popularity declined a lot as time passed, so laws had to be made to compel free men to wear them in the forum.
> > > > >
> > > > > If one is not a senator or a magistrate, a toga is absolutely not necessary. A man can be satisfied with a tunic and a pallium. Both can be made with coloured and light fabric, if one so wishes.
> > > > > The pallium is absolutely decent, looks good, and it's much easier to wear for people who are not used to togas. Apart from taking a lot less fabric and work.
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to make a pallium, take 4,5 metres of 140 or 150 cm wide fabric, saw four fishing weights to the four corners, and drape it round yourself starting on the left arm.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you wish to be very elegant, you can make a pallium and a tunic from the same fabric. Apparently that's what a synthesis was, the kind of attire that was worn at dinners.
> > > > >
> > > > > As to the choice of colours, they can be bright colours if it's silk or wool, but should only be very light pastel colours or white if you are using vegetal fabric, because that's very hard to dye using the vegetal dyes the ancients used.
> > > > >
> > > > > Optime vale,
> > > > > Livia
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salve,
> > > > > > I've always wondered why we must use wool.
> > > > > > Our ancestors were not so limited, there is evidence of cotton, silk, sea silk, linen, and hemp being used for clothing.
> > > > > > Of course to the ancients some of these would've been expensive cotton had to be imported from india, ailk from china, but in modern time cottin is widely availible and linen, silk, and hemp can be bought from most fabric stores.
> > > > > > It would not be historicaly inaacurate to use these fabrics to make tunics, stola, togas, etc.
> > > > > > Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
> > > > > > Nero
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Salve Sulpici,
> > > > > > > now all you need to know is that the toga should be woolen. If you buy wool, try to get the thinnest possible unbleached white wool. Here in Italy it's called "lana Vaticano", because it's the type used for priests' robes. If you can't afford it you can use linen or cotton. If it's cotton you should choose something thick, which doesn't wrinkle easily.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Optime vale,
> > > > > > > Livia
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Salve, fratre!
> > > > > > > > Firstly you must know which toga you want to recreate. Imperial or republican. Republican is easier for make. Here is the pattern for republican toga:
> > > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togatext.pdf
> > > > > > > > And toga generator for the imperial toga:
> > > > > > > > http://rabbitoriginals.com/toga/
> > > > > > > > How you must drap�the toga:
> > > > > > > > http://www.theweebsite.com/earlygarb/images/toga.gif
> > > > > > > > http://www.csulb.edu/~dhood/graphics/togapix.pdf
> > > > > > > > and video:
> > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFibgeJTVU&feature=channel
> > > > > > > > Vale
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70904 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
LOL I hit reply to the wrong email, this is regarding the "sockpuppet" thing, not the cista.

-Anna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
> If you guys are willing to waste money on this, then why don't you just do it?
>
> Go ahead and hire a private investogator, pay all the legal fees, and do it. Stop whining about it on the Main List and do it already!
>
> -Anna
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Galerio Paulino sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > I'm willing to donate money to purchase this as well.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Maior,
> > >
> > > (SIGH)
> > >
> > > If you had read what I posted you would have seen that I post here, in this forum, the full text of my private question to the Consuls and our CIO Senator Saturninus.
> > >
> > > My question consisted of six words while the rest was a quote. Which is why it was contained within quotation marks.
> > >
> > > Maior how about joining me in recommending to the Consuls and the Senate that we purchase a membership program called Member Ties. http://www.myrro.com/memberties/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It cost between $99-$149 USD and is used by a number of large and small membership groups including a group I belong to. I would even be willing to donate some funds for its purchase.
> > >
> > > This will help us get the Censors office back up and running and even if just a stop gap it for this year it will provide us a back up if need in the future.
> > >
> > > Vale
> > >
> > > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: rory12001@
> > > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:04:21 +0000
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: News about the Cista
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Pompeia;
> > > are you still on the Senate list? Saturninus just published Paulinus' private message to him;
> > >
> > > it was insulting, scarcastic asking if there was any concern among 'the pointy hatters' about lack of censor tools, album civium. etc..
> > >
> > > Saturninus was upset & said that any answer he had, would be used politically. And it already has.
> > >
> > > Paulinus is humiliated because he was rude and political. He wanted to show the IT people up, not contact his IT friend Agricola.
> > >
> > >
> > > If we act nicely to one another; we'll get answers. Having a rude tone, constant fighting and politics achieves nothing. I realize it is election time in NR, but this has got to stop.
> > > vale
> > >
> > > Maior
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "pompeia_minucia_tiberia" <scriba_forum@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve Lentule:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the update.
> > > >
> > > > I am only sorry that one of the IT team didn't answer the Censor privately, in the 5 day interval between his private query and now.
> > > >
> > > > It would have saved him being publicly humiliated by Maior, who offered no information, just humiliation; and sadly, her response was endorsed by Petronius as quite reasonable.
> > > >
> > > > All apparent personal ill feeling aside, I think Galerius' questions are reasonable, pertinent to his duties as Censor, and he did make a documented attempt to contact the necessary parties privately before going public.
> > > >
> > > > Vale
> > > > Pompeia
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus sal.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I consulted our Chief Information Officer, the Curator Rei Informaticae C. Curius Saturninus, and this is what I can announce you:
> > > > >
> > > > > "We are doing our best to have the voting system to work. The problem lies in some details of the code of the old voting tools: they are not built in a safe enough way, in other words our hosting service provider say they compromise the data security, which is a very serious issue. However we have more than full support from the hosting service provider to modify the code to work before the elections."
> > > > >
> > > > > In the name of C. Curius Saturninus, Curator Rei Informaticae.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70905 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Yes Maior, I was so guilty of sponsoring a group to organize a conventus, so guilty of offering you a role in that task. You declined that offer on the feeble ground you were taking a year off office and yet that hasn't stopped you from being involved in other areas of NR and no magistrates position was involved in my offer - obviously as you have to be elected - so how would joining my cohors have violated your year off resolve?

Yes I have said repeatedly Iulia stepped in and provided the much needed local input. Without this assistance from Iulia in all liklihood it would have failed.

Yes <lol> I plead guilty to being concerned enough that the conventus went ahead, in the face of your best efforts to undermine it (prior to Iulia, who you like, stepping in) that I even suggested to Iulia it would be best if she advocated for the conventus on the ML as I suspected (correctly) that her doing so would mute your diet of complaints. You are so predicatble.

As in any conventus it reached a point when my being in Canada and Iulia in the the city where it was occurring dictated that it was only logical that she use her contacts and knowledge of her own city to best advantage.

No, the planning didn't go smoothly - big surprise in NR. However in the year you were involved in yet another abortive attempt to kick start a conventus, you spent months trying to agree on where to hold it and eventually the whole project died a death. So what was better? The less than perfect planning apparatus of a successful conventus, or your flawless planning of a conventus that never happened?

No I didn't abandon it. I simply let Iulia run with it as she clearly knew what she was doing and was best able to execute its implementation. After the last practical thing I could help with - the creation of the Wiki page - I stayed out from under her feet. Sometimes you have to know when to let others manage a project without pointless interference, clearly a skill you have yet to master or understand.

Now, exactly what does the Conventus have to do with the issue under discussion? Answer - nothing. It is just the usual example of your diffusion tactics. Now, carry on living up to Po's description of you.

Caesar



--- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

> From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:52 PM
> Salvete Anna;
>   I see they brought out Gn. Iulius Caesar to help
> with the BA bullying.
>
> This is the curule aedile who abandoned our first
> conventus, just did absolutely nothing until Lucia Julia
> Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus, stepped in at the last
> moment and made arrangements so it could happen in August.
>
> Potitus resigns his questorship in a huff
> Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the Conventus
> Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney General for 0
> reason.
>
> These are the people criticizing...it is utterly
> ridiculous.
>                
>             vale
>                
>            Maior
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you implying that he would risk real world
> repercussions by lying and deception - when this is what he
> does for a living? 
> > >
> > > Bizarro world.  This is freaking bizarro
> world.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You forgot to call her a despicable human being like
> you did in the back alley.
> >
> >
> > -Anna
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70906 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Alembic and Herbalism Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Turin Exhibit -- Ancient R
Salvete;
I was just at the library yesterday and they had this book: I Profumi di Afrodite. It's beautiful with full pictures and a great section on experimental archeology, with yes pictures of a re-created still.
vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Regule et Livia; here it is, there was a big ancient perfume exhibit in the Capitolini Museum in Rome in 2007 'Here is the book:
> i Profumi di Afrodite, e
> > il segreto dell' olia,
> > > Scoperte archelogiche a Cipro. Published by Gangemi Editore
> some members of the group went and wrote:
>
>
>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70907 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Ave Cato,

> Once again, a completely unwarranted reference to my sacra privata.

This reference is not unwarranted. "Donate your money to the poors" is a message of your Christ, isn't it? And as you wrote about donate money I remind you the words that it is preferable for you to follow. I look after your place to the paradise and, once again, you are an ungrateful person.

But I know, he said also: "Facilius est camelum per foramen acus transire quam divitem intrare in regnum caelorum."

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70908 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salve Caesar;
the BA loves to criticize, but what did you achieve in real life?
The Conventus happened due to others grit and hard work.

this is from a June 28th letter, before the Conventus, that I wrote to M. Lucretius Agricola:

salve;
this has been done all at the last minute by Julia Aquila, the person the cohors failed to get in touch with. I discussed the Conventus in November with Caesar before he got elected! Julia aquila and sempronius regulus are also experienced organiaers in Nashville, no one contacted them.
The conventus cohors was not overseen by Caesar my civis Laeta told me, basicaly they sat around in the yahoo group without guidance or direction. What a useless screw up. Julia aqulia is going to arrange one later in the year for our province, with all the bells and whistles! camping by the parthenon, private tour etc..

======================================================================
---

In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Yes Maior, I was so guilty of sponsoring a group to organize a conventus, so guilty of offering you a role in that task. You declined that offer on the feeble ground you were taking a year off office and yet that hasn't stopped you from being involved in other areas of NR and no magistrates position was involved in my offer - obviously as you have to be elected - so how would joining my cohors have violated your year off resolve?
>
> Yes I have said repeatedly Iulia stepped in and provided the much needed local input. Without this assistance from Iulia in all liklihood it would have failed.
>
> Yes <lol> I plead guilty to being concerned enough that the conventus went ahead, in the face of your best efforts to undermine it (prior to Iulia, who you like, stepping in) that I even suggested to Iulia it would be best if she advocated for the conventus on the ML as I suspected (correctly) that her doing so would mute your diet of complaints. You are so predicatble.
>
> As in any conventus it reached a point when my being in Canada and Iulia in the the city where it was occurring dictated that it was only logical that she use her contacts and knowledge of her own city to best advantage.
>
> No, the planning didn't go smoothly - big surprise in NR. However in the year you were involved in yet another abortive attempt to kick start a conventus, you spent months trying to agree on where to hold it and eventually the whole project died a death. So what was better? The less than perfect planning apparatus of a successful conventus, or your flawless planning of a conventus that never happened?
>
> No I didn't abandon it. I simply let Iulia run with it as she clearly knew what she was doing and was best able to execute its implementation. After the last practical thing I could help with - the creation of the Wiki page - I stayed out from under her feet. Sometimes you have to know when to let others manage a project without pointless interference, clearly a skill you have yet to master or understand.
>
> Now, exactly what does the Conventus have to do with the issue under discussion? Answer - nothing. It is just the usual example of your diffusion tactics. Now, carry on living up to Po's description of you.
>
> Caesar
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> > From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:52 PM
> > Salvete Anna;
> >   I see they brought out Gn. Iulius Caesar to help
> > with the BA bullying.
> >
> > This is the curule aedile who abandoned our first
> > conventus, just did absolutely nothing until Lucia Julia
> > Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus, stepped in at the last
> > moment and made arrangements so it could happen in August.
> >
> > Potitus resigns his questorship in a huff
> > Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the Conventus
> > Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney General for 0
> > reason.
> >
> > These are the people criticizing...it is utterly
> > ridiculous.
> >                
> >             vale
> >                
> >            Maior
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Are you implying that he would risk real world
> > repercussions by lying and deception - when this is what he
> > does for a living? 
> > > >
> > > > Bizarro world.  This is freaking bizarro
> > world.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You forgot to call her a despicable human being like
> > you did in the back alley.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Anna
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70909 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Maior,

As I said full credit to Iulia.

And what has any of this to do with the issue of the Consul? Answer - nothing <lol>.

Caesar

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

> From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:56 PM
> Salve Caesar;
>     the BA loves to criticize, but what did you
> achieve in real life?
> The Conventus happened due to others grit and hard work.
>
> this is from a June 28th letter, before the Conventus,
> that  I wrote to M. Lucretius Agricola:
>
> salve;
> this has been done all at the last minute by Julia Aquila,
> the person the cohors failed to get in touch with. I
> discussed the Conventus in November with Caesar before he
> got elected! Julia aquila and sempronius regulus are also
> experienced organiaers in Nashville, no one contacted them.
>     The conventus cohors was not overseen by
> Caesar my civis Laeta told me, basicaly they sat around in
> the yahoo group without guidance or direction. What a
> useless screw up. Julia aqulia is going to arrange one later
> in the year for our province, with all the bells and
> whistles! camping by the parthenon, private tour etc..
>
> ======================================================================
> ---
>
> In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yes Maior, I was so guilty of sponsoring a group to
> organize a conventus, so guilty of offering you a role in
> that task. You declined that offer on the feeble ground you
> were taking a year off office and yet that hasn't stopped
> you from being involved in other areas of NR and no
> magistrates position was involved in my offer - obviously as
> you have to be elected - so how would joining my cohors have
> violated your year off resolve?
> >
> > Yes I have said repeatedly Iulia stepped in and
> provided the much needed local input. Without this
> assistance from Iulia in all liklihood it would have failed.
>
> >
> > Yes <lol> I plead guilty to being concerned
> enough that the conventus went ahead, in the face of your
> best efforts to undermine it (prior to Iulia, who you like,
> stepping in) that I even suggested to Iulia it would be best
> if she advocated for the conventus on the ML as I suspected
> (correctly) that her doing so would mute your diet of
> complaints. You are so predicatble.
> >
> > As in any conventus it reached a point when my being
> in Canada and Iulia in the the city where it was occurring
> dictated that it was only logical that she use her contacts
> and knowledge of her own city to best advantage.
> >
> > No, the planning didn't go smoothly - big surprise in
> NR. However in the year you were involved in yet another
> abortive attempt to kick start a  conventus, you spent
> months trying to agree on where to hold it and eventually
> the whole project died a death. So what was better? The less
> than perfect planning apparatus of a successful conventus,
> or your flawless planning of a conventus that never
> happened?
> >
> > No I didn't abandon it. I simply let Iulia run with it
> as she clearly knew what she was doing and was best able to
> execute its implementation. After the last practical thing I
> could help with - the creation of the Wiki page - I stayed
> out from under her feet. Sometimes you have to know when to
> let others manage a project without pointless interference,
> clearly a skill you have yet to master or understand.
> >
> > Now, exactly what does the Conventus have to do with
> the issue under discussion? Answer - nothing. It is just the
> usual example of your diffusion tactics. Now, carry on
> living up to Po's description of you.
> >
> > Caesar
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL
> GOVERNORS
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:52 PM
> > > Salvete Anna;
> > >   I see they brought out Gn. Iulius Caesar to
> help
> > > with the BA bullying.
> > >
> > > This is the curule aedile who abandoned our
> first
> > > conventus, just did absolutely nothing until
> Lucia Julia
> > > Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus, stepped in
> at the last
> > > moment and made arrangements so it could happen
> in August.
> > >
> > > Potitus resigns his questorship in a huff
> > > Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the Conventus
> > > Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney General
> for 0
> > > reason.
> > >
> > > These are the people criticizing...it is utterly
> > > ridiculous.
> > >                
> > >             vale
> > >                
> > >            Maior
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you implying that he would risk
> real world
> > > repercussions by lying and deception - when this
> is what he
> > > does for a living? 
> > > > >
> > > > > Bizarro world.  This is freaking
> bizarro
> > > world.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You forgot to call her a despicable human
> being like
> > > you did in the back alley.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Anna
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70910 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salve Caesar;
this has to do with you and your BA friends constantly undermining Nova Roma; remember you saying the Magna Mater Project was wire fraud?
Totally false. And your own words below.
So stop your constant bullying; you have absolutely nothing to be proud about. Neither do Cato and Sulla who reported NR to the Maine Attorney General for 0 reason.
vale
Maior

ah I found it, your letter to me January 2009

Salve Maior.

I have completed my allocations of scribes inside the Cohors aedilicia. There is one Work Group dedicated to the Nth. American Conventus, with another in reserve. A further group is observing without directly participating, to gain experience and contribute fresh opinions should these be called for. Five scribes have this as their primary function, a further 5 are in reserve, with four in the observer role. The Quaestor assigned to this is Quintus Valerius Poplicola. As you feel you cannot join the Cohors, we have to establish some sort of system for planning this Conventus. I think it maybe best if the Cohors took it over completely and involved you in specific areas that you indicate that you want to help on. Would that work?
=====================================================================
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Maior,
>
> As I said full credit to Iulia.
>
> And what has any of this to do with the issue of the Consul? Answer - nothing <lol>.
>
> Caesar
>
> --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> > From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:56 PM
> > Salve Caesar;
> >     the BA loves to criticize, but what did you
> > achieve in real life?
> > The Conventus happened due to others grit and hard work.
> >
> > this is from a June 28th letter, before the Conventus,
> > that  I wrote to M. Lucretius Agricola:
> >
> > salve;
> > this has been done all at the last minute by Julia Aquila,
> > the person the cohors failed to get in touch with. I
> > discussed the Conventus in November with Caesar before he
> > got elected! Julia aquila and sempronius regulus are also
> > experienced organiaers in Nashville, no one contacted them.
> >     The conventus cohors was not overseen by
> > Caesar my civis Laeta told me, basicaly they sat around in
> > the yahoo group without guidance or direction. What a
> > useless screw up. Julia aqulia is going to arrange one later
> > in the year for our province, with all the bells and
> > whistles! camping by the parthenon, private tour etc..
> >
> > ======================================================================
> > ---
> >
> > In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes Maior, I was so guilty of sponsoring a group to
> > organize a conventus, so guilty of offering you a role in
> > that task. You declined that offer on the feeble ground you
> > were taking a year off office and yet that hasn't stopped
> > you from being involved in other areas of NR and no
> > magistrates position was involved in my offer - obviously as
> > you have to be elected - so how would joining my cohors have
> > violated your year off resolve?
> > >
> > > Yes I have said repeatedly Iulia stepped in and
> > provided the much needed local input. Without this
> > assistance from Iulia in all liklihood it would have failed.
> >
> > >
> > > Yes <lol> I plead guilty to being concerned
> > enough that the conventus went ahead, in the face of your
> > best efforts to undermine it (prior to Iulia, who you like,
> > stepping in) that I even suggested to Iulia it would be best
> > if she advocated for the conventus on the ML as I suspected
> > (correctly) that her doing so would mute your diet of
> > complaints. You are so predicatble.
> > >
> > > As in any conventus it reached a point when my being
> > in Canada and Iulia in the the city where it was occurring
> > dictated that it was only logical that she use her contacts
> > and knowledge of her own city to best advantage.
> > >
> > > No, the planning didn't go smoothly - big surprise in
> > NR. However in the year you were involved in yet another
> > abortive attempt to kick start a  conventus, you spent
> > months trying to agree on where to hold it and eventually
> > the whole project died a death. So what was better? The less
> > than perfect planning apparatus of a successful conventus,
> > or your flawless planning of a conventus that never
> > happened?
> > >
> > > No I didn't abandon it. I simply let Iulia run with it
> > as she clearly knew what she was doing and was best able to
> > execute its implementation. After the last practical thing I
> > could help with - the creation of the Wiki page - I stayed
> > out from under her feet. Sometimes you have to know when to
> > let others manage a project without pointless interference,
> > clearly a skill you have yet to master or understand.
> > >
> > > Now, exactly what does the Conventus have to do with
> > the issue under discussion? Answer - nothing. It is just the
> > usual example of your diffusion tactics. Now, carry on
> > living up to Po's description of you.
> > >
> > > Caesar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: rory12001 <rory12001@>
> > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL
> > GOVERNORS
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:52 PM
> > > > Salvete Anna;
> > > >   I see they brought out Gn. Iulius Caesar to
> > help
> > > > with the BA bullying.
> > > >
> > > > This is the curule aedile who abandoned our
> > first
> > > > conventus, just did absolutely nothing until
> > Lucia Julia
> > > > Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus, stepped in
> > at the last
> > > > moment and made arrangements so it could happen
> > in August.
> > > >
> > > > Potitus resigns his questorship in a huff
> > > > Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the Conventus
> > > > Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney General
> > for 0
> > > > reason.
> > > >
> > > > These are the people criticizing...it is utterly
> > > > ridiculous.
> > > >                
> > > >             vale
> > > >                
> > > >            Maior
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you implying that he would risk
> > real world
> > > > repercussions by lying and deception - when this
> > is what he
> > > > does for a living? 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bizarro world.  This is freaking
> > bizarro
> > > > world.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You forgot to call her a despicable human
> > being like
> > > > you did in the back alley.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Anna
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70911 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salve Maior.

The Senate hasn't received the final - complete - report on the MMP. As for my letter - of course you have it - you published it on the BA, before you got banned. So - your point? It certainly proves I offered you a position, you declined it, that I was willing to assist you in this project. So what is so shocking about my email?

Is this the best you can do to deflect from the issue of the sock puppet? Oh, and I note that your definition of bullying really drills down to disagreeing with those you like or who are your political allies. If anyone is a bully <lol> it is you through your cheap deflection tactics, constant atempts to change the topic of a debate, wandering all over the place in posts and trying to create confusion as to the subject, name dropping and the plethora of other tactics you engage in, culminating no doubt with a reminder of all your stupendously long 'articles' on the wiki (you know - the one line - the short one line I might add - electronic "post-it" note you are so famous for alluding to as an article).

And what has any of this I say again got to do with whether the Consul sent those posts? Nothing is the answer.

Caesar

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

> From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:29 PM
> Salve Caesar;
>   this has to do with you and your BA friends
> constantly undermining Nova Roma; remember you saying the
> Magna Mater Project was wire fraud?
> Totally false. And your own words below.
>          So stop your
> constant bullying; you have absolutely nothing to be proud
> about. Neither do Cato and Sulla who reported NR to the
> Maine Attorney General for 0 reason.
>                
>         vale
>                
>        Maior
>
> ah I found it, your letter to me January 2009
>
> Salve Maior.
>
> I have completed my allocations of scribes inside the
> Cohors aedilicia. There is one Work Group dedicated to the
> Nth. American Conventus, with  another in reserve. A
> further group is observing without directly participating,
> to gain experience and contribute fresh opinions should
> these be called for. Five scribes have this as their primary
> function, a further 5 are in reserve, with four in the
> observer role. The Quaestor assigned to this is Quintus
> Valerius Poplicola. As you feel you cannot join the Cohors,
> we have to establish some sort of system for planning this
> Conventus. I think it maybe best if the Cohors took it over
> completely and involved you in specific areas that you
> indicate that you want to help on. Would that work?
> =====================================================================
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> >
> > Maior,
> >
> > As I said full credit to Iulia.
> >
> > And what has any of this to do with the issue of the
> Consul? Answer - nothing <lol>.
> >
> > Caesar
> >
> > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL
> GOVERNORS
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 1:56 PM
> > > Salve Caesar;
> > >     the BA loves to criticize, but what did
> you
> > > achieve in real life?
> > > The Conventus happened due to others grit and
> hard work.
> > >
> > >  this is from a June 28th letter, before the
> Conventus,
> > > that  I wrote to M. Lucretius Agricola:
> > >
> > > salve;
> > >  this has been done all at the last minute
> by Julia Aquila,
> > > the person the cohors failed to get in touch
> with. I
> > > discussed the Conventus in November with Caesar
> before he
> > > got elected! Julia aquila and sempronius regulus
> are also
> > > experienced organiaers in Nashville, no one
> contacted them.
> > >     The conventus cohors was not overseen by
> > > Caesar my civis Laeta told me, basicaly they sat
> around in
> > > the yahoo group without guidance or direction.
> What a
> > > useless screw up. Julia aqulia is going to
> arrange one later
> > > in the year for our province, with all the bells
> and
> > > whistles! camping by the parthenon, private tour
> etc..
> > >
> > >
> ======================================================================
> > > ---
> > >
> > >  In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes Maior, I was so guilty of sponsoring a
> group to
> > > organize a conventus, so guilty of offering you a
> role in
> > > that task. You declined that offer on the feeble
> ground you
> > > were taking a year off office and yet that hasn't
> stopped
> > > you from being involved in other areas of NR and
> no
> > > magistrates position was involved in my offer -
> obviously as
> > > you have to be elected - so how would joining my
> cohors have
> > > violated your year off resolve?
> > > >
> > > > Yes I have said repeatedly Iulia stepped in
> and
> > > provided the much needed local input. Without
> this
> > > assistance from Iulia in all liklihood it would
> have failed.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes <lol> I plead guilty to being
> concerned
> > > enough that the conventus went ahead, in the face
> of your
> > > best efforts to undermine it (prior to Iulia, who
> you like,
> > > stepping in) that I even suggested to Iulia it
> would be best
> > > if she advocated for the conventus on the ML as I
> suspected
> > > (correctly) that her doing so would mute your
> diet of
> > > complaints. You are so predicatble.
> > > >
> > > > As in any conventus it reached a point when
> my being
> > > in Canada and Iulia in the the city where it was
> occurring
> > > dictated that it was only logical that she use
> her contacts
> > > and knowledge of her own city to best advantage.
>
> > > >
> > > > No, the planning didn't go smoothly - big
> surprise in
> > > NR. However in the year you were involved in yet
> another
> > > abortive attempt to kick start a  conventus, you
> spent
> > > months trying to agree on where to hold it and
> eventually
> > > the whole project died a death. So what was
> better? The less
> > > than perfect planning apparatus of a successful
> conventus,
> > > or your flawless planning of a conventus that
> never
> > > happened?
> > > >
> > > > No I didn't abandon it. I simply let Iulia
> run with it
> > > as she clearly knew what she was doing and was
> best able to
> > > execute its implementation. After the last
> practical thing I
> > > could help with - the creation of the Wiki page -
> I stayed
> > > out from under her feet. Sometimes you have to
> know when to
> > > let others manage a project without pointless
> interference,
> > > clearly a skill you have yet to master or
> understand.
> > > >
> > > > Now, exactly what does the Conventus have to
> do with
> > > the issue under discussion? Answer - nothing. It
> is just the
> > > usual example of your diffusion tactics. Now,
> carry on
> > > living up to Po's description of you.
> > > >
> > > > Caesar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Tue, 10/6/09, rory12001
> <rory12001@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: rory12001 <rory12001@>
> > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL
> PROVINCIAL
> > > GOVERNORS
> > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:52
> PM
> > > > > Salvete Anna;
> > > > >   I see they brought out Gn. Iulius
> Caesar to
> > > help
> > > > > with the BA bullying.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the curule aedile who abandoned
> our
> > > first
> > > > > conventus, just did absolutely nothing
> until
> > > Lucia Julia
> > > > > Aquila and Aulus Sempronius Regulus,
> stepped in
> > > at the last
> > > > > moment and made arrangements so it
> could happen
> > > in August.
> > > > >
> > > > > Potitus resigns his questorship in a
> huff
> > > > > Gn Iulius Caesar abandons the
> Conventus
> > > > > Sulla turns NR in to the Maine Attorney
> General
> > > for 0
> > > > > reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > These are the people criticizing...it
> is utterly
> > > > > ridiculous.
> > > > >                
> > > > >             vale
> > > > >                
> > > > >            Maior
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you implying that he
> would risk
> > > real world
> > > > > repercussions by lying and deception -
> when this
> > > is what he
> > > > > does for a living? 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bizarro world.  This is
> freaking
> > > bizarro
> > > > > world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You forgot to call her a
> despicable human
> > > being like
> > > > > you did in the back alley.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Anna
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70912 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

I would not support Complutensis for censor, and would encourage him to not run for the office.

But you did not answer my question regarding ethics.  I've studied ethics when I obtained a BA in philosophy and am studying ethics in my pursuit of an M.T.S.  I'm well aware of what ethics is, and how it is articulated; however, I have no idea if you have more than a passing curiosity of the subject.  That is why I ask you to define what you mean by ethics.

Anyone in Nova Roma has a "vested interest" in the outcome of any event that affects Nova Roma - we are all stakeholders here.

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:
 

Modiane, you should read my earlier posts about the ethics violation.

 

You should recuse yourself because you have a vested interest in the outsome.

 

I see you ignored my question on whether you would support Complutensis if he ran for censor.

 

Potitus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70913 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
What exactly do you think the censores should be doing?  What is convening the senate going to do? 

If you think Complutensis violated our laws then file a petitio actionis against him when his term of office has expired.  The praetores have indicated he broke none of our laws, what would you have the censores do?  Issue a nota?  On what grounds?  Ethics violation?

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
 

Salve Merula.
 
My guess is is he is attempting to say that the actions were initiated by Paulinus and that somehow Modianus was always divorced from any responsibility for the actions taken.
 
It is a version of the Nuremberg defence. Instead of "I was only following orders", it is "I was just an innocent bystander in the Censors' office and wasn't responsible for the actions my colleague took" (despite Modianus having typed the email and used 'we"<lol>).
 
Vale bene
Caesar




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70914 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salve "lepus" 
the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.

I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

 

Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

 

Salve Davide;
if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
Sure post it.

Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Maior,
>
>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                                                                                  David
>
>
>       
>
> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete Davide;
>
> please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
>
>
> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
>
>
> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
>
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
>
> optime vale
>
> Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> > bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> > M. Hortensia Maior
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Greetings Everyone,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > David
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
>
> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70915 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Salve.

You need to spend less time worrying about me and my sacra privata and more time actually doing something worthwhile for the Respublica. I am afraid you are starting down the road traveled so obsessively by Regulus; I can only hope that you will not begin dissecting my sexual private life as well.

To recap: we have now (at least) one sitting magistrate and senator, a sitting governor, and two ex-magistrates (also senators), offering to invest in a project for the benefit of the whole Respublica - yet we're the "bad guys"; the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.

Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm...."

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70916 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
I advocated none of those. This didn't even involve you, rather Dexter's apparent attempt to divorce you from the action of requesting a praetorial review.
 
Frankly in my estimation nothing will happen becuase few of those that could make something happen don't have any stomach for it, or just as likely they would rather bang nails into the side of their heads than be seen to assist Sulla, Cato et al.
 
In short I think that many magistrates probably are privately convinced he did it, but as this is seen as a political issue, rather than an ethical and/or legal one, no one wants to sacrifice a political ally. Therefore he will serve out his term.
 
If you think the Senate willa chieve nothing, I happen to think you are correct, but probably for different reasons than you. Any debate will divide up into partisan camps and since the Consul and his allies have a majority (barely) they are likely to carry the day, so it will be utterly pointless.
 
As for prosecuting him, delightful as I might find that given Cincinnatus' experience of Nova Roman justice at his hands, I simply won't invest the time it what would probably also end up in a political charade (like Cincinnatus). Some may - I won't. As to why the Praetors determined no laws have been broken, well beats me. I could easily make a case for a petitio, and a far more solid one than yours or the other one to arraign Concinnatus.
 
Caesar

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

From: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:23 PM



What exactly do you think the censores should be doing?  What is convening the senate going to do? 

If you think Complutensis violated our laws then file a petitio actionis against him when his term of office has expired.  The praetores have indicated he broke none of our laws, what would you have the censores do?  Issue a nota?  On what grounds?  Ethics violation?

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
 
Salve Merula.
 
My guess is is he is attempting to say that the actions were initiated by Paulinus and that somehow Modianus was always divorced from any responsibility for the actions taken.
 
It is a version of the Nuremberg defence. Instead of "I was only following orders", it is "I was just an innocent bystander in the Censors' office and wasn't responsible for the actions my colleague took" (despite Modianus having typed the email and used 'we"<lol>).
 
Vale bene
Caesar





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70917 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Livia omnibus sal.

I was not going to answer this, because every response to this thread endorses the idea that self-appointed accusers have the right to hold a "trial" in public for charges that are not even crimes according to NR law.

But since Caesar mentions having a "vested stake" I thought I'd mention exactly what this is.
Many, many months ago, when I was tribuna plebis, Caesar wrote to me hoping I would veto the sentence in Cincinnatus' trial (something Tribunes cannot do). After that, he swore revenge against Complutensis. (I have an email from him saying this, can check the IP address if needed).
At the time, of course, he didn't want to reveal what this revenge would be, but by this time I guess this has become clear.

I bet Caesar and his Back Alley friends regret that they were not the ones to think up the whole Pasquinus affair. But this didn't prevent them from making the most of it, as they grab every other possible excuse to discredit the current magistrates.

So this is what Caesar's "vested stake" is. Revenge.
For more than one year the aim of all his actions in NR has been to prepare his revenge for the preceived wrong that befell his friend Cincinnatus.

For those who were not there, let's remind that Cincinnatus was fined because he didn't bother to appear in court. He did not use the various possibilities the NR legal system gives, of defending himself, or even appealing to the people.
So in fact, every debate on whether what he did broke NR laws is moot, because he himself refused to let it be debated in the appropriate forum: the trial, at the time.

Caesar:
>
> Within my professional field I have no vested stake. Here, like you, I do, but the analysis in this case was a simple matter of comparing the use of certain phrases. That wasn't an interpretation, just a simple matter of finding similar phrases used by the Consul. The core of the matter however lies with the IP issues.
>

Livia:
Of course I have a "vested stake" too. That of preventing Caesar's revenge and letting magistrates do their work instead of having to defend themselves continuously against trumped-up charges.


Caesar:
>
> As for Canada and the US references, it doesn't surprise me that you continue on with your usual assertions that anything to do with the US legal system is rotten. I think if you look to Europe and its various legal systems, you will find examples of injustice, of bias, of corruption. It is a human condition, and Europeans are not immune to it - despite the snobbish implied assertion that anything European has an edge over anything on this side of the Atlantic.
>
Livia:
Well, obviously as an Italian I know that well. Mine was a rethoric and ironic exaggeration. Still, it is hard to believe that someone whose actions in NR were prompted by revenge for this many months manages to act unbiassed in his life outside NR. Still, it's possible.

And of course not anything European is better than anything in America, just things related to civilization. In nature I'm sure you beat us.

Caesar:
>
> P.S. Your non-arival in Canada is equally welcome.
>
Livia:
Hey, I only meant I'm not moving there. I might still visit as a tourist. I'm sure there are a lot of people as intelligent as Caesar in Canada, and most are probably also a lot nicer.

Optime valete,
Livia

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >
> > Livia Caesari sal.
> >
> > Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where biassed people like you have expert status.
> >
> > All the analysis demonstrated was that both Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Caesar sal.
> > >
> > > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter,"
> > >
> > > Incorrect. Given my training and employment I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in such matters of statement analysis.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
> > > >
> > > > Since repetition is the mother of memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
> > > >
> > > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70918 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Salvete;
actually Dexter has done a tremendous amount of real life work for the cultus deorum; going to Pannonia, the Feriae Latinae in Rome, research for the restoration of the Sybilline books, writing his own Portunalia ritual in Latin in meter.

I'm going to ask the pontifex maximus Piscinus to post the reports of the activities of the religious officials, so every can see for themselves.

If Cato would read the Senate list he'd know that I asked the CIO Saturninus, yesterday if the software would be helpful. He said 'no.' He hoped the Album Civium would be online in 2 weeks.
vale
Maior
.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> You need to spend less time worrying about me and my sacra privata and more time actually doing something worthwhile for the Respublica. I am afraid you are starting down the road traveled so obsessively by Regulus; I can only hope that you will not begin dissecting my sexual private life as well.
>
> To recap: we have now (at least) one sitting magistrate and senator, a sitting governor, and two ex-magistrates (also senators), offering to invest in a project for the benefit of the whole Respublica - yet we're the "bad guys"; the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.
>
> Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm...."
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70919 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Cato Maiori sal.

Salve!

Shouldn't the activities of those entrusted with the sacra publica be published in the Forum as a matter of course? I've asked that it be done several times. I hope you have better luck.

Oh and yes, this is the same CIO who doesn't understand the programs that we work with anyways, right? The same one who remained silent when asked questions - even though he is responsible to the Respublica for this information - because, as he himself said, he simply doesn't like the people who were asking them? That one? Okie-dokie.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> actually Dexter has done a tremendous amount of real life work for the cultus deorum; going to Pannonia, the Feriae Latinae in Rome, research for the restoration of the Sybilline books, writing his own Portunalia ritual in Latin in meter.
>
> I'm going to ask the pontifex maximus Piscinus to post the reports of the activities of the religious officials, so every can see for themselves.
>
> If Cato would read the Senate list he'd know that I asked the CIO Saturninus, yesterday if the software would be helpful. He said 'no.' He hoped the Album Civium would be online in 2 weeks.
> vale
> Maior
> .
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > You need to spend less time worrying about me and my sacra privata and more time actually doing something worthwhile for the Respublica. I am afraid you are starting down the road traveled so obsessively by Regulus; I can only hope that you will not begin dissecting my sexual private life as well.
> >
> > To recap: we have now (at least) one sitting magistrate and senator, a sitting governor, and two ex-magistrates (also senators), offering to invest in a project for the benefit of the whole Respublica - yet we're the "bad guys"; the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.
> >
> > Things that make you go, "hmmmmmm...."
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70920 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Caesar sal.

For those who watched the abuse of NR law during the trial of Cincinnatus, and who maybe totally unaware of my feelings, yes I would certainly enjoy Complutensis being arraigned, just so he could enjoy the same experience of being a defendant that he visited on Cincinnatus. I simply don't personally have the time to invest in helping him enjoy the experience. others may yet though.

Livia also forgets her response in that exchange, which was basically that in her opinion certain people are so vital to NR they have to be protected from any legal retribution at all costs, which of course emboldens people to behave as though they are the lords of NR rather than its magistrates for a year. I don't give people blank checks of protection based on some supposed vital role they play in NR (I would certainly disagree with the assessment of their contribution being vital).

I note the European snobbery continues with the assertion that European culture is so much more healthy and superior. Dig deep in every European country and you will find the same traits as in the US, just that people there tend not to expose their nation's own faults and make a habit of making excuses.

Revenge? Very Roman. Never made a secret of my desire to see everyone connected with the farce and abuse of our legal system suffer the same fate as Cincinnatus, mainly for the pleasure of watching them be fined an absurd sum - as was the case with Cincinnatus, who was legally represented and tried on one trial - riddled with procedural irregularities and bias, and illegally convicted on the other. A sum so large in proportion to our meagre taxes, that it was designed to ensure that Cincinnatus refused to pay it and thus would be deprived of his rights etc. So ifd someone later wants to insert Complutensis into our legal machine, I probably will be happy to assist, I just can't be bothered to crank the handle.

Optime valete.



--- On Tue, 10/6/09, livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:

> From: livia_plauta <livia.plauta@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 4:00 PM
> Livia omnibus sal.
>
> I was not going to answer this, because every response to
> this thread endorses the idea that self-appointed accusers
> have the right to hold a "trial" in public for charges that
> are not even crimes according to NR law.
>
> But since Caesar mentions having a "vested stake" I thought
> I'd mention exactly what this is.
> Many, many months ago, when I was tribuna plebis, Caesar
> wrote to me hoping I would veto the sentence in Cincinnatus'
> trial (something Tribunes cannot do). After that, he swore
> revenge against Complutensis. (I have an email from him
> saying this, can check the IP address if needed).
> At the time, of course, he didn't want to reveal what this
> revenge would be, but by this time I guess this has become
> clear.
>
> I bet Caesar and his Back Alley friends regret that they
> were not the ones to think up the whole Pasquinus affair.
> But this didn't prevent them from making the most of it, as
> they grab every other possible excuse to discredit the
> current magistrates.
>
> So this is what Caesar's "vested stake" is. Revenge.
> For more than one year the aim of all his actions in NR has
> been to prepare his revenge for the preceived wrong that
> befell his friend Cincinnatus.
>
> For those who were not there, let's remind that Cincinnatus
> was fined because he didn't bother to appear in court. He
> did not use the various possibilities the NR legal system
> gives, of defending himself, or even appealing to the
> people.
> So in fact, every debate on whether what he did broke NR
> laws is moot, because he himself refused to let it be
> debated in the appropriate forum: the trial, at the time.
>
> Caesar:
> >
> > Within my professional field I have no vested stake.
> Here, like you, I do, but the analysis in this case was a
> simple matter of comparing the use of certain phrases. That
> wasn't an interpretation, just a simple matter of finding
> similar phrases used by the Consul. The core of the matter
> however lies with the IP issues.
> >
>
> Livia:
> Of course I have a "vested stake" too. That of preventing
> Caesar's revenge and letting magistrates do their work
> instead of having to defend themselves continuously against
> trumped-up charges.
>
>
> Caesar:
> >
> > As for Canada and the US references, it doesn't
> surprise me that you continue on with your usual assertions
> that anything to do with the US legal system is rotten. I
> think if you look to Europe and its various legal systems,
> you will find examples of injustice, of bias, of corruption.
> It is a human condition, and Europeans are not immune to it
> - despite the snobbish implied assertion that anything
> European has an edge over anything on this side of the
> Atlantic.
> >
> Livia:
> Well, obviously as an Italian I know that well. Mine was a
> rethoric and ironic exaggeration. Still, it is hard to
> believe that someone whose actions in NR were prompted by
> revenge for this many months manages to act unbiassed in his
> life outside NR. Still, it's possible.
>
> And of course not anything European is better than anything
> in America, just things related to civilization. In nature
> I'm sure you beat us.
>
> Caesar: 
> >
> > P.S. Your non-arival in Canada is equally welcome.
> >
> Livia:
> Hey, I only meant I'm not moving there. I might still visit
> as a tourist. I'm sure there are a lot of people as
> intelligent as Caesar in Canada, and most are probably also
> a lot nicer.
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Livia Caesari sal.
> > >
> > > Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was
> more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that
> notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where
> biassed people like you have expert status.
> > >
> > > All the analysis demonstrated was that both
> Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Caesar sal.
> > > >
> > > > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been
> provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has
> been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone
> who is not a specialist of the matter,"
> > > >
> > > > Incorrect. Given my training and employment
> I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in
> such matters of statement analysis.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since repetition is the mother of
> memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those
> who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever
> been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that
> has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by
> someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false
> statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70921 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.
>


I would consider this an inaccurate chracterization of their behaviour.

-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70922 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> You need to spend less time worrying about me

Do not be worry, I do not spend my time about you.

> and my sacra privata

They are not private, you claim your faith every time.

> and more time actually doing something worthwhile for the Respublica.

Follow yourself your advice.

> I am afraid you are starting down the road traveled so obsessively by Regulus;

I think you are wrong. You are not my obsession.

> I can only hope that you will not begin dissecting my sexual private life as well.

Do you have a sexual life? You spend so much time on your computer that I wonder if you...

> To recap: we have now (at least) one sitting magistrate and senator, a sitting governor, and two ex-magistrates (also senators), offering to invest in a project for the benefit of the whole Respublica - yet we're the "bad guys"; the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.<

Sarcastic is it a synonym of ironic? Because, you know? My irony is legendary...

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70923 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salve Livia;
read my exchange with Gn. Iulius Caesar from the BA in April. I'm on the CP, I and others wanted to take Cincinnatus back and make peace, so we could go forward. Just read his reply below. They are consumed with hate...


In BackAlley@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

In this life you reap what you sow, and it wasn't anyone who stands against rule by dictat and whim that started the cycle of purges and trials.

They want to be Roman? Well they can practice making their own crosses.

Caesar


--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@...>
Subject: [BackAlley] Re: Maior - just a question
To: BackAlley@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 3:37 PM



Salvete:
what do I think about the consuls calling elections? I think you could have asked a tribune to do it as of Feb 28th when Saturninus became Chief IT officer or even earlier if Gn. Iulius Caesar had stepped up and become our webmaster.

So what have you achieved? I realize you hate the consuls as last year they were praetors and tried Cincinnatus, the augur, because he wouldn't admit Modianus, the other augur into the College of Augurs yahoo group. Well why was he an augur if he refused to act collegially as part of a college?

I don't know. But let him reapply and come back as an augur. We'd all in the Collegium Pontificum vote for him to return.

Frankly, you're all smart, instead of this endless feuding why don't you take Latin, Academia Thules offers it free every year. We could work on the Colonia. Have public rituals; I'm trying to have one for Bona Dea this May 1.

Did you know Nova Roma made $100 this quarter as Agricola tied the booklists in the NRwiki to Amazon. That's great, with all this will we can work together to create something real and permanent instead of participating in a destructive cycle of feuding.

bene valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


>
>
>
> > So this is what Caesar's "vested stake" is. Revenge.
> > For more than one year the aim of all his actions in NR has
> > been to prepare his revenge for the preceived wrong that
> > befell his friend Cincinnatus.
> >
> > For those who were not there, let's remind that Cincinnatus
> > was fined because he didn't bother to appear in court. He
> > did not use the various possibilities the NR legal system
> > gives, of defending himself, or even appealing to the
> > people.
> > So in fact, every debate on whether what he did broke NR
> > laws is moot, because he himself refused to let it be
> > debated in the appropriate forum: the trial, at the time.
> >
> > Caesar:
> > >
> > > Within my professional field I have no vested stake.
> > Here, like you, I do, but the analysis in this case was a
> > simple matter of comparing the use of certain phrases. That
> > wasn't an interpretation, just a simple matter of finding
> > similar phrases used by the Consul. The core of the matter
> > however lies with the IP issues.
> > >
> >
> > Livia:
> > Of course I have a "vested stake" too. That of preventing
> > Caesar's revenge and letting magistrates do their work
> > instead of having to defend themselves continuously against
> > trumped-up charges.
> >
> >
> > Caesar:
> > >
> > > As for Canada and the US references, it doesn't
> > surprise me that you continue on with your usual assertions
> > that anything to do with the US legal system is rotten. I
> > think if you look to Europe and its various legal systems,
> > you will find examples of injustice, of bias, of corruption.
> > It is a human condition, and Europeans are not immune to it
> > - despite the snobbish implied assertion that anything
> > European has an edge over anything on this side of the
> > Atlantic.
> > >
> > Livia:
> > Well, obviously as an Italian I know that well. Mine was a
> > rethoric and ironic exaggeration. Still, it is hard to
> > believe that someone whose actions in NR were prompted by
> > revenge for this many months manages to act unbiassed in his
> > life outside NR. Still, it's possible.
> >
> > And of course not anything European is better than anything
> > in America, just things related to civilization. In nature
> > I'm sure you beat us.
> >
> > Caesar: 
> > >
> > > P.S. Your non-arival in Canada is equally welcome.
> > >
> > Livia:
> > Hey, I only meant I'm not moving there. I might still visit
> > as a tourist. I'm sure there are a lot of people as
> > intelligent as Caesar in Canada, and most are probably also
> > a lot nicer.
> >
> > Optime valete,
> > Livia
> >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Livia Caesari sal.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was
> > more reliable than the US one. I don't know where I got that
> > notion. The gods preserve me from any justice system where
> > biassed people like you have expert status.
> > > >
> > > > All the analysis demonstrated was that both
> > Pasquinus and Complutensis are native Spanish speakers.
> > > >
> > > > Optime vale,
> > > > Livia
> > > >
> > > > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Caesar sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > "I hereby repeat that no proof has ever been
> > provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that has
> > been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by someone
> > who is not a specialist of the matter,"
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect. Given my training and employment
> > I have the status of an expert witness up here in Canada in
> > such matters of statement analysis.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since repetition is the mother of
> > memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as those
> > who think repeating an untruth many times makes it true.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hereby repeat that no proof has ever
> > been provided that Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that
> > has been provided is some dubious text analysis, made by
> > someone who is not a specialist of the matter, and the false
> > statement that IP addresses cannot be hacked.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70924 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Cato Annae sal.

Salve!

And you would be wrong.

vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.
> >
>
>
> I would consider this an inaccurate chracterization of their behaviour.
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70925 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
Salve Maior.
 
Good choice. I liked that line. I'll add that I would also donate the nails.
 
Vale bene
Caesar

From: rory12001
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:07 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

Salve Livia;
 read my exchange with Gn. Iulius Caesar from the BA in April. I'm on the CP, I and others wanted to take Cincinnatus back and make peace, so we could go forward. Just read his reply below. They are consumed with hate...


In BackAlley@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

In this life you reap what you sow, and it wasn't anyone who stands against rule by dictat and whim that started the cycle of purges and trials.
 
They want to be Roman? Well they can practice making their own crosses.
 
Caesar
 

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Maior <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: Maior <rory12001@...>
Subject: [BackAlley] Re: Maior - just a question
To: BackAlley@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 3:37 PM



Salvete:
what do I think about the consuls calling elections? I think you could have asked a tribune to do it as of Feb 28th when Saturninus became Chief IT officer or even earlier if Gn. Iulius Caesar had stepped up and become our webmaster.

So what have you achieved? I realize you hate the consuls as last year they were praetors and tried Cincinnatus, the augur, because he wouldn't admit Modianus, the other augur into the College of Augurs yahoo group. Well why was he an augur if he refused to act collegially as part of a college?

I don't know. But let him reapply and come back as an augur. We'd all in the Collegium Pontificum vote for him to return.

Frankly, you're all smart, instead of this endless feuding why don't you take Latin, Academia Thules offers it free every year. We could work on the Colonia. Have public rituals; I'm trying to have one for Bona Dea this May 1.

Did you know Nova Roma made $100 this quarter as Agricola tied the booklists in the NRwiki to Amazon. That's great, with all this will we can work together to create something real and permanent instead of participating in a destructive cycle of feuding.

bene valete
Marca Hortensia Maior


>
>
>
> > So this is what
Caesar's "vested stake" is. Revenge.
> > For more than one year the aim
of all his actions in NR has
> > been to prepare his revenge for the
preceived wrong that
> > befell his friend Cincinnatus.
> >
> > For those who were not there, let's remind that
Cincinnatus
> > was fined because he didn't bother to appear in court.
He
> > did not use the various possibilities the NR legal
system
> > gives, of defending himself, or even appealing to
the
> > people.
> > So in fact, every debate on whether what
he did broke NR
> > laws is moot, because he himself refused to let it
be
> > debated in the appropriate forum: the trial, at the
time.
> >
> > Caesar:
> > >
> > >
Within my professional field I have no vested stake.
> > Here, like
you, I do, but the analysis in this case was a
> > simple matter of
comparing the use of certain phrases. That
> > wasn't an
interpretation, just a simple matter of finding
> > similar phrases
used by the Consul. The core of the matter
> > however lies with the IP
issues.
> > >
> >
> > Livia:
> > Of
course I have a "vested stake" too. That of preventing
> > Caesar's
revenge and letting magistrates do their work
> > instead of having to
defend themselves continuously against
> > trumped-up charges.
> >
> >
> > Caesar:
> > >
> > > As
for Canada and the US references, it doesn't
> > surprise me that you
continue on with your usual assertions
> > that anything to do with the
US legal system is rotten. I
> > think if you look to Europe and its
various legal systems,
> > you will find examples of injustice, of
bias, of corruption.
> > It is a human condition, and Europeans are not
immune to it
> > - despite the snobbish implied assertion that
anything
> > European has an edge over anything on this side of
the
> > Atlantic.
> > >
> > Livia:
> >
Well, obviously as an Italian I know that well. Mine was a
> > rethoric
and ironic exaggeration. Still, it is hard to
> > believe that someone
whose actions in NR were prompted by
> > revenge for this many months
manages to act unbiassed in his
> > life outside NR. Still, it's
possible.
> >
> > And of course not anything European is
better than anything
> > in America, just things related to
civilization. In nature
> > I'm sure you beat us.
> >
> > Caesar: 
> > >
> > > P.S. Your non-arival in
Canada is equally welcome.
> > >
> > Livia:
> >
Hey, I only meant I'm not moving there. I might still visit
> > as a
tourist. I'm sure there are a lot of people as
> > intelligent as
Caesar in Canada, and most are probably also
> > a lot nicer.
> >
> > Optime valete,
> > Livia
> >
> > > --- In
href="mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Livia Caesari sal.
> > > >
> > > >
Well, I thought the Canadian justice system was
> > more reliable than
the US one. I don't know where I got that
> > notion. The gods preserve
me from any justice system where
> > biassed people like you have
expert status.
> > > >
> > > > All the analysis
demonstrated was that both
> > Pasquinus and Complutensis are native
Spanish speakers.
> > > >
> > > > Optime
vale,
> > > > Livia
> > > >
> > > > P.S: One more reason not to move to Canada.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
Caesar sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > "I hereby
repeat that no proof has ever been
> > provided that Complutensis
created Pasquinus. All that has
> > been provided is some dubious text
analysis, made by someone
> > who is not a specialist of the
matter,"
> > > > >
> > > > > Incorrect.
Given my training and employment
> > I have the status of an expert
witness up here in Canada in
> > such matters of statement
analysis.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
href="mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com">Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> > "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Livia Potito omnibusque sal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since repetition is the
mother of
> > memory, I will here start to use the same strategy as
those
> > who think repeating an untruth many times makes it
true.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I
hereby repeat that no proof has ever
> > been provided that
Complutensis created Pasquinus. All that
> > has been provided is some
dubious text analysis, made by
> > someone who is not a specialist of
the matter, and the false
> > statement that IP addresses cannot be
hacked.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups
Links
> >
> >
> >    
href="mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com">mailto:Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>




------------------------------------

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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70926 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: My question to the Consuls and the CIO
Your opinion that I'm wrong isn't based in reality.

-Anna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Annae sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> And you would be wrong.
>
> vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > the response from the "good guys" is shrieking about a past conventus and sarcastic babbling about Christianity.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I would consider this an inaccurate chracterization of their behaviour.
> >
> > -Anna
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70927 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

> And what has any of this I say again got to do with whether the Consul sent those posts? Nothing is the answer.
>


She's merely demonstrating a lack of ethics and responsibility by some of those in the Back Alley and how it's hypocritical and ironic that they'd be the ones to complain about an "ethics violation"(I noticed the cries of "breaking the law" have been dropped).

For example, another poll regarding Maior has just finished on the Back Alley today. The question was if the nickname "Goebbels" fits Maior. 4 members of the back alley voted yes, 2 voted no(maior being one of the no votes).



-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70928 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

Potitus Petronio SPD.

 

Everytime I read something you write, I laugh at the irony. You are Moliere redivivus. Merci.

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of petronius_dexter
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:42 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

 

 

C. Petronius Potito s.p.d.,

> I appreciate your concern for the Republic, but I disagree that this is
"really a matter of etiquette". It is actually a matter of ethics, honor and fides. It is a question of "conduct unbecoming" of a magistrate.<

We know you have an high sense of yourself and of the conduct of a magistrate. You resigned your quaestorship following a hysterical little moment whose quickly you were sorry of but it was too late.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70929 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-06
Subject: Ethics

Modiane,

 

So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo those terms?

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:18 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS

 

 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

I would not support Complutensis for censor, and would encourage him to not run for the office.

But you did not answer my question regarding ethics.  I've studied ethics when I obtained a BA in philosophy and am studying ethics in my pursuit of an M.T.S.  I'm well aware of what ethics is, and how it is articulated; however, I have no idea if you have more than a passing curiosity of the subject.  That is why I ask you to define what you mean by ethics.

Anyone in Nova Roma has a "vested interest" in the outcome of any event that affects Nova Roma - we are all stakeholders here.

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@cox. net> wrote:

 

Modiane, you should read my earlier posts about the ethics violation.

 

You should recuse yourself because you have a vested interest in the outsome.

 

I see you ignored my question on whether you would support Complutensis if he ran for censor.

 

Potitus

 

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70930 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:
>
> Modiane,
>
>
>
> So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to
> the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo
> those terms?
>
>

I just read the Yahoo! TOS and I couldn't find where it said it's against policy to create a sockpuppet account.

Please show me where he violated TOS.


-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70931 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: TO ALL PROVINCIAL GOVERNORS
C. Petronius Potito sal.

> Everytime I read something you write, I laugh at the irony.

It is said that a good laugh is worth a good beefsteak.

>You are Moliere redivivus. Merci.

No matter.

As he said in Tartuffe:

"Ceux de qui la conduite offre le plus à rire
Sont toujours sur autrui les premiers à médire."

(Moliere, Tartuffe,
acte 1, scène 1 vers 105-106)

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70933 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Non. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est Nonis Octobribus; haec dies nefastus est.

"On being admitted to an audience, their envoys addressed the senate
to the following effect: 'Senators! the people of Capua have sent us
as ambassadors to you to ask for a friendship which shall be per-
petual, and for help for the present hour. Had we sought this
friendship in the day of our prosperity it might have been cemented
more readily, but at the same time by a weaker bond. For in that case,
remembering that we had formed our friendship on equal terms, we
should perhaps have been as close friends as now, but we should have
been less prepared to accept your mandates, less at your mercy.
Whereas now, won over by your compassion and defended in our extremity
by your aid, we should be bound to cherish the kindness bestowed on us
if we are not to appear ungrateful and undeserving of any help from
either gods or man. I certainly do not consider that the fact of the
Samnites having already become your friends and allies should be a bar
to our being admitted into your friendship; it only shows that they
take precedence of us in the priority and degree of the honour which
you have conferred upon them. There is nothing in your treaty with
them to prevent you from making fresh treaties. It has always been
held amongst you to be a satisfactory reason for friendship, when he
who made advances to you was anxious to be your friend. Although our
present circumstances forbid us to speak proudly about our- selves,
still we Campanians are second to no people, save your- selves, in the
size of our city and the fertility of our soil, and we shall bring, I
consider, no small accession to your prosperity by entering into your
friendship. Whenever the Aequi and Volscians, the perpetual enemies of
this City, make any hostile movement we shall be on their rear, and
what you lead the way in doing on behalf of our safety, that we shall
always continue to do on behalf of your dominion and your glory. When
these nations which lie between us are subjugated -- and your courage
and fortune are a guarantee that this will soon come about -- you will
have an unbroken dominion up to our frontier. Painful and humiliating
is the confession which our fortunes compel us to make; but it has
come to this, senators, we Campanians must be numbered either amongst
your friends or your enemies. If you defend us we are yours, if you
abandon us we shall belong to the Samnites. Make up your minds, then,
whether you would prefer that Capua and the whole of Campania should
form an addition to your strength or should augment the power of the
Samnites It is only right, Romans, that your sym- pathy and help
should be extended to all, but especially should it be so to those
who, when others appealed to them, tried to help them beyond their
strength and so have brought themselves into these dire straits.
Although it was ostensibly on behalf of the Sidicines that we fought,
we really fought for our own liberty, for we saw our neighbours
falling victims to the nefarious brigandage of the Samnites, and we
knew that when the Sidicines had been consumed the fire would sweep on
to us. The Samnites are not coming to attack us because we have in any
way wronged them, but because they have gladly seized upon a pretext
for war. Why, if they only sought retribution and were not catching at
an opportunity for satisfying their greed, ought it not to be enough
for them that our legions have fallen on Sidicine territory and a
second time in Campania itself? Where do we find resentment so bitter
that the blood shed in two battles cannot satiate it? Then think of
the destruction wrought in our fields, the men and cattle carried off,
the burning and ruining of our farms, everything devastated with fire
and sword--cannot all this appease their rage? No, they must satisfy
their greed. It is this that is hurrying them on to the storm of
Capua; they are bent on either destroying that fairest of cities or
making it their own. But you, Romans, should make it your own by
kindness, rather than allow them to possess it as the reward of iniquity.'

I am not speaking in the presence of a nation that refuses to go to
war when war is righteous, but even so, I believe if you make it clear
that you will help us you will not find it necessary to go to war. The
contempt which the Samnites feel for their neighbours extends to us,
it does not mount any higher; the shadow of your help therefore is
enough to protect us, and we shall regard whatever we have, whatever
we are, as wholly yours. For you the Campanian soil shall be tilled,
for you the city of Capua shall be thronged; you we shall regard as
our founders, our parents, yes, even as gods; there is not a single
one amongst your colonies that will surpass us in devotion and loyalty
towards you. Be gracious, senators, to our prayers and manifest your
divine will and power on behalf of the Campanians, and bid them
entertain a certain hope that Capua will be safe. With what a vast
crowd made up of every class, think you, did we start from the gates?
How full of tears and prayers did we leave all behind. In what a state
of expectancy are the senate and people of Capua, our wives and
children, now living! I am quite certain that the whole population is
standing at the gates, watching the road which leads from here, in
anxious suspense as to what reply you are ordering us to carry back to
them. The one answer will bring them safety, victory, light, and
liberty; the other--I dare not say what that might bring. Deliberate
then upon our fate, as that of men who are either going to be your
friends and allies, or to have no existence anywhere.' " - Livy,
History of Rome 7.30

The nones of October are dedicated to Iuno Curitis, the Roman goddess
Iuno as "Juno protector of spearmen". She was also known as Iuno
Curritis and Iuno Quiritis. Juno may have originally derived her hame
"Curitis" from the word curiae, because Juno was said to have been
worshipped in each of the 30 military and polital administrative units
(curiae) of Rome that were set up by Romulus. It was also thought
that the name was derived from curis, the Sabine word for "spear", and
so Iuno Curitis came to have a military aspect. As well as in her
widespread cult in Rome, she was worshipped in Falerii and Beneventum,
Italy. A prayer to this goddess is known from the Tiburtine region in
Italy:

"Iuno Curitis, protect my fellow natives of the curia with your
chariot and shield."

Iuno Curitis is the only deity whose cult is known to have been
universal in the curiae of Rome. Here she was worshipped at
sacrificial suppers where first fruits and cakes made
from spelt and barley wer served with wine in a simple and
old-fashioned way. Iuno Curitis had a temple in the Campus Martius.
Quiritis was a Sabine (pre-Roman) goddess of motherhood. She was often
associated with protection. In later years, Quiritis was identified
with the goddess Iuno, who was sometimes worshipped under the name
Iuno Quiritis (or Iuno Curitis). Some scholars believe that Juno was
in fact merely another version of Quiritis, although others say that
the two are linked merely by borrowing.

Alternatively, Her name may have been derived from a Sabine word
meaning "lance" or "spear", and she is often depicted holding that
weapon (presumably in defence of someone or something). This is a
feature that was incorporated into Iuno's identity. Traditionally,
Roman marriages included a ritual where the bride's hair was cut or
parted with a spear - some see this as the result of Iuno's
association with marriage, although other explanations for the ritual
are given as well.

"There stood the grove of the goddess, dark-shadowed, immemorial –
one step inside and you know that some spirit resides within the
place. There's a rough old altar, raised by divine hands, where
worshippers mutter prayers over incense plumes.Through garland
streets, with solemn chanting to the skirl of flutes, and the cheers
of bystanders, comes the annual procession, leading snow-white
heifers, sleek on Falerian pastures, and young calves, unbellowing,
with yet buds on their foreheads. Humble pigs from the sty come next
to placate the god, and wethers with horns curved round their
temples. Only the goat is banned, by Juno's command. When She fled
from Jove's wedding bed, and sought shelter deep within this forest,
the bleat of a goat gave Her away. So to this day little children
cast sticks at the tattler, and whoever scores first, by Her law,
wins a nanny goat as prize. Ahead of the Goddess walks youths and shy virgins,
their hems sweeping the broad streets, the girls hair all entwined with gold and
jewels, gilded shoes peering out from underneath embroidered mantles. Veiled,
white-robed in Greek fashion, maidens bear the sacred vessels on their heads.
The crowd falls into silent reverence as Juno Herself passes on a gilded float
drawn by Her priestesses." - Ovid, "Loves" III.13.7-31

The nones of October are also sacred to Iuppiter Fulgura, and this may
be His aspect as the Thunderer:

"Saepius ventis agitatur ingens
pinus et celsae graviore casu
decidunt turres feriuntque summos
fulgura montis.

Sperat infestis, metuit secundis
alteram sortem bene praeparatum
pectus. Informis hiemes reducit
Iuppiter, idem summovet."

("With fiercer blasts the pine's dim height
Is rock'd; proud towers with heavier fall
Crash to the ground; and thunders smite
The mountains tall.

In sadness hope, in gladness fear
'Gainst coming change will fortify
Your breast. The storms that Jupiter
Sweeps o'er the sky He chases.") - Horace, Odes 2.10

As the pebble or flint stone was regarded as the symbol of lightning, Iuppiter
was frequently represented with such a stone in his hand instead of a
thunderbolt; and in ancient times a flint stone was exhibited as a symbolic
representation of the god. In concluding a treaty, the Romans took the sacred
symbols of Iuppiter (the sceptre and flint stone), together with some grass from
his temple, and the oath taken on such an occasion was expressed by "per Iovem
Lapidem jurare."


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70934 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Annae sal.

Salve!

"5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY

You will receive a password and account designation upon completing the Yahoo! Service's registration process. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the password and account and are fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password or account. You agree to (a) immediately notify Yahoo! of any unauthorized use of your password or account or any other breach of security, and (b) ensure that you exit from your account at the end of each session. Yahoo! cannot and will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section 5.

6. MEMBER CONDUCT

You agree to not use the Yahoo! Services to:

c. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Yahoo! official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

d. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any Content transmitted through the Yahoo! Service"

Vale,

Cato






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
> >
> > Modiane,
> >
> >
> >
> > So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to
> > the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo
> > those terms?
> >
> >
>
> I just read the Yahoo! TOS and I couldn't find where it said it's against policy to create a sockpuppet account.
>
> Please show me where he violated TOS.
>
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70935 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

I don't see how #5 matters at all in this argument.  With regard to #6 this would apply if someone was being impersonated that already had an existing account.  If someone created an e-mail account such as GaiusEquitiusCato@... and tried posting as Gaius Equitius Cato without being him.  That would be a direct violation of this.  However, how many people exist in Nova Roma with the same cognomen?  The clause "falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity" is the important distinction here.

For example... I could join the forum with my school e-mail address and post with my macronational name.  I would not be falsely misrepresenting anything.  I am both David Kling and Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus.  It would be confusing to some people, and it wouldn't be the best thing to do but hardly unethical.  Take that one step further and say I joined the list with another e-mail account -- say one that I could access easier from work or remotely.  It might confuse people seeing two e-mail addresses associated with the same name, but there is no misrepresentation -- I had to do this several years ago.

In our community, and in communities like this, it is common to use names other than the one we are born with.  That being the case most of us develop a persona associated with our alter-identity.  Using a screen name as a signature is not the same as misrepresenting yourself.  You CAN have more than one screen name/identity on mailing lists.

Therefore, the Yahoo Terms of service have not been violated (assuming the sockpuppet allegation is true).  Ask an attorney, he or she will affirm that this line of argument is fruitless.

Valete;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
 

Cato Annae sal.

Salve!

"5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY

You will receive a password and account designation upon completing the Yahoo! Service's registration process. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the password and account and are fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password or account. You agree to (a) immediately notify Yahoo! of any unauthorized use of your password or account or any other breach of security, and (b) ensure that you exit from your account at the end of each session. Yahoo! cannot and will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section 5.

6. MEMBER CONDUCT

You agree to not use the Yahoo! Services to:

c. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Yahoo! official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

d. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any Content transmitted through the Yahoo! Service"

Vale,

Cato




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70936 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

It depends on one's intention and the context of the situation.  I'm clearly not a Kantian in my approach to ethics.

Law enforcement use "sockpuppets" to capture individuals who solicit children for sex on-line.  Would something like this be wrong?

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:
 

Modiane,

 

So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo those terms?

 

Potitus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70937 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

Now will you be defining your ethics as I had asked?

Vale;

Modianus

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:
 

Modiane,

 

So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo those terms?

 

Potitus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70938 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Ave Cato,

> "5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY
[...]

> 6. MEMBER CONDUCT
[...]

Those are not macronational laws. The NR judges, the Senate cannot have any lawsuit with that.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70939 From: marcushoratius Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Sacrum Iunonis Covellae
M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus: Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum ex patriae et omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

Hoc Agete!

Sacrum Iunonis Covellae


Ave Dea aeterna, tenes vetusta delubra, castissima Iuno Covella, cuius sanctitas cordi Diis est. Te, Dea, adoramus tuumque nos numen invocamus. Iuno, uti tibi in illis libris scriptum est quarumque rerum ergo quodque melius sit populo Novo Romano Quiritibus tibi sacrum fiat. Te, Dea, quaeso precorque te his donis obmovendis bonas preces precor uti sis volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus, Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium, tribunis Plebei Novae Romanae, Senatui Novo Romano, quaestoribus et magistratibus omnibus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium, nobis, domo familaeque nostrae. Macte his donis.

Iuno Covella, te hoc ture ommovendo bonas preces praecor ut sis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque nostris.

Huc ades, castissima Iuno Covella, te hoc libo strueque obmovendo bonas preces precor ut sis volens propitius nobis liberisque notris domis familisque nostris. mactus hoc ferto.

DIE SEPTIMI TE KALO, IUNO COVELLA

Mensis October : dies XXXI : Nonae septimanae : dies horarum X dodrantis : nox horarum XIII quadrantis : Sol in Libra : Tutela Martis vindemiae sacrum Libero

OCTOBER

1 N KAL FIDEI PUBLICAE, Cereri; Iunone Sorariae; Tigillo Sororio
2 F dies ater
3 C
4 C Ieiunium Cereris
5 C religiosus mundus patet
6 C
7 F NON IUNONI CURITIS, IOVI FULGURI
8 F dies ater
9 C
10 C IUNONI MONETAE
11 NP MEDITRINALIA
12 C
13 NP FONTINALIA
14 F dies ater
15 C EIDUS FERIAE IOVI, EQUUS OCTOBER
16 C dies ater
17 C religiosus
18 C religiosus
19 NP religiosus ARMILUSTRIUM
20 C
21 C
22 C
23 C
24 C
25 C
26 C
27 C
28 C
29 C
30 C
31 C

Iuno Covella macte ista libatione pollicenda sint, macte lacti inferio sint.

Illicet. Di immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.

Nil amplius vos hodie posco, superi, satis est.


* * * * *

Hail, eternal Goddess, You who dwells in ancient temples, most chaste Juno Covella, whose sanctity is pleasing to the hearts of the Gods, We invoke Your presence among us. Juno, as it is prescribed for you in those books – and for this reason may every good fortune attend the people of Nova Roma, the Quirites – let sacrifice be made to you. I beg and pray. In making this offering to you, I pray with good prayers, that You look favorably upon the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, on the Republic of Nova Roma, on the consuls and praetors of the the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, on the tribunes of the Plebeians of Nova Roma, on the Senate of Nova Roma, on the quaestors and on all magistrates of the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, and (finally) on us and our households and on our homes; may this offering strengthen and honor You.

Juno Covella, in offering to You this incense I pray good prayers that You will look kindly and favorably upon our children and upon us, on our homes and on our households.

Come, most chaste Juno, in offering You this libum and strues bread I pray good prayers in order that, pleased with this offering of libum bread, You may be favorable toward us and to our children, to our houses and our households. May You be honored in this.

Juno Covella, may You be strengthened by this libation, may You be honored by this portion of milk.

Thus is it done. May the immortal Gods make it prosper as it is pius.
No more this day do I ask of You, Gods above; it is enough.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70940 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Nodiano sal.

Salve.

You probably feel this way since it was not your personal records the consul was combing through while posting as "fpasquinus". The consul was searching through *my* personal records while posting as "fpasquinus".

If it was not him, there was a breach in the security of his account. Did he notify Yahoo! as required? Did he notify *anyone* that someone had broken into his home and work computers and had gained access to the private records of the Respublica?

The consul claimed to know who it was, at first, someone he "thought was a friend". If in fact it was him, then he liked and falsely stated and misrepresented himself.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
> I don't see how #5 matters at all in this argument. With regard to #6 this
> would apply if someone was being impersonated that already had an existing
> account. If someone created an e-mail account such as
> GaiusEquitiusCato@... and tried posting as Gaius Equitius Cato without
> being him. That would be a direct violation of this. However, how many
> people exist in Nova Roma with the same cognomen? The clause "falsely state
> or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity" is the
> important distinction here.
>
> For example... I could join the forum with my school e-mail address and post
> with my macronational name. I would not be falsely misrepresenting
> anything. I am both David Kling and Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus. It would
> be confusing to some people, and it wouldn't be the best thing to do but
> hardly unethical. Take that one step further and say I joined the list with
> another e-mail account -- say one that I could access easier from work or
> remotely. It might confuse people seeing two e-mail addresses associated
> with the same name, but there is no misrepresentation -- I had to do this
> several years ago.
>
> In our community, and in communities like this, it is common to use names
> other than the one we are born with. That being the case most of us develop
> a persona associated with our alter-identity. Using a screen name as a
> signature is not the same as misrepresenting yourself. You CAN have more
> than one screen name/identity on mailing lists.
>
> Therefore, the Yahoo Terms of service have not been violated (assuming the
> sockpuppet allegation is true). Ask an attorney, he or she will affirm that
> this line of argument is fruitless.
>
> Valete;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Annae sal.
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > "5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY
> >
> > You will receive a password and account designation upon completing the
> > Yahoo! Service's registration process. You are responsible for maintaining
> > the confidentiality of the password and account and are fully responsible
> > for all activities that occur under your password or account. You agree to
> > (a) immediately notify Yahoo! of any unauthorized use of your password or
> > account or any other breach of security, and (b) ensure that you exit from
> > your account at the end of each session. Yahoo! cannot and will not be
> > liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this
> > Section 5.
> >
> > 6. MEMBER CONDUCT
> >
> > You agree to not use the Yahoo! Services to:
> >
> > c. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a
> > Yahoo! official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise
> > misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
> >
> > d. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise
> > the origin of any Content transmitted through the Yahoo! Service"
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70941 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

I've seen database records.  Not that big of a deal really, and as consul he has a legal right to access the database -- you can thank Tiberius Galerius Paulinus for that.  Likewise, Complutensis has had access to the database for years -- as a scribe and so has many of your "political opponents."  So what that he had access to the database.  Did he travel to your physical address and cause you harm?  Did he mail you anything inappropriate? 

Your arguments in this whole matter are deteriorating.  Time to move on.

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
 

Cato Nodiano sal.

Salve.

You probably feel this way since it was not your personal records the consul was combing through while posting as "fpasquinus". The consul was searching through *my* personal records while posting as "fpasquinus".

If it was not him, there was a breach in the security of his account. Did he notify Yahoo! as required? Did he notify *anyone* that someone had broken into his home and work computers and had gained access to the private records of the Respublica?

The consul claimed to know who it was, at first, someone he "thought was a friend". If in fact it was him, then he liked and falsely stated and misrepresented himself.

Vale,

Cato




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70942 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
You are being ironic again.

Otherwise where is your proof?

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
> Ave Cato,
>
> > "5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY
> [...]
>
> > 6. MEMBER CONDUCT
> [...]
>
> Those are not macronational laws. The NR judges, the Senate cannot have any lawsuit with that.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70943 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
C. Petronius L. Sullæ sal.,

> You are being ironic again.

The humour of repetition is not the finest humour.

> Otherwise where is your proof?

My proof of what?

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70944 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Academics
Salve Modiane,
I just want to commend you on your pursuit of higher education towards a Masters of Theological Studies.

After about 36 years of not understanding the importance of higher education, I've come to realize that organized academia is a meaningful & challenging way of life. My textbooks are my best friends, to "listen to" (reading) and to "talk" or respond to (answering questions).

I attend Capella University; I'm eight courses from a BS in Business Admin. The next goal for me is an MBA/Law degree. I need to find an online university within 104 weeks.
Vale,
Tiberius Marci Quadra



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70945 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Academics
Salve:

Nice to hear about your academic pursuits.  Congratulations on your accomplishments so far, and on what you'll certainly accomplish in the future!

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
 

Salve Modiane,
I just want to commend you on your pursuit of higher education towards a Masters of Theological Studies.

After about 36 years of not understanding the importance of higher education, I've come to realize that organized academia is a meaningful & challenging way of life. My textbooks are my best friends, to "listen to" (reading) and to "talk" or respond to (answering questions).

I attend Capella University; I'm eight courses from a BS in Business Admin. The next goal for me is an MBA/Law degree. I need to find an online university within 104 weeks.
Vale,
Tiberius Marci Quadra



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70946 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Re-read your post that I was responding too. I am asking you to prove your claim.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> C. Petronius L. Sullæ sal.,
>
> > You are being ironic again.
>
> The humour of repetition is not the finest humour.
>
> > Otherwise where is your proof?
>
> My proof of what?
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70947 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed their privacy in our Constitution.

That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a violation of our privacy.

Vale,

Cato







--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> I've seen database records. Not that big of a deal really, and as consul he
> has a legal right to access the database -- you can thank Tiberius Galerius
> Paulinus for that. Likewise, Complutensis has had access to the database
> for years -- as a scribe and so has many of your "political opponents." So
> what that he had access to the database. Did he travel to your physical
> address and cause you harm? Did he mail you anything inappropriate?
>
> Your arguments in this whole matter are deteriorating. Time to move on.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Nodiano sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > You probably feel this way since it was not your personal records the
> > consul was combing through while posting as "fpasquinus". The consul was
> > searching through *my* personal records while posting as "fpasquinus".
> >
> > If it was not him, there was a breach in the security of his account. Did
> > he notify Yahoo! as required? Did he notify *anyone* that someone had broken
> > into his home and work computers and had gained access to the private
> > records of the Respublica?
> >
> > The consul claimed to know who it was, at first, someone he "thought was a
> > friend". If in fact it was him, then he liked and falsely stated and
> > misrepresented himself.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70948 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Where did he forge headers, and who was impersonated?


-Anna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Annae sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> "5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY
>
> You will receive a password and account designation upon completing the Yahoo! Service's registration process. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the password and account and are fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password or account. You agree to (a) immediately notify Yahoo! of any unauthorized use of your password or account or any other breach of security, and (b) ensure that you exit from your account at the end of each session. Yahoo! cannot and will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section 5.
>
> 6. MEMBER CONDUCT
>
> You agree to not use the Yahoo! Services to:
>
> c. impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Yahoo! official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
>
> d. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any Content transmitted through the Yahoo! Service"
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Modiane,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So, in your well-educated opinion, is it ethical for a person to agree to
> > > the Yahoo terms of service and then create a sockpuppet in violation fo
> > > those terms?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I just read the Yahoo! TOS and I couldn't find where it said it's against policy to create a sockpuppet account.
> >
> > Please show me where he violated TOS.
> >
> >
> > -Anna
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70949 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
*cough* Watergate *cough*

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Modiano sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed their privacy in our Constitution.
>
> That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a violation of our privacy.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > I've seen database records. Not that big of a deal really, and as consul he
> > has a legal right to access the database -- you can thank Tiberius Galerius
> > Paulinus for that. Likewise, Complutensis has had access to the database
> > for years -- as a scribe and so has many of your "political opponents." So
> > what that he had access to the database. Did he travel to your physical
> > address and cause you harm? Did he mail you anything inappropriate?
> >
> > Your arguments in this whole matter are deteriorating. Time to move on.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Nodiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > You probably feel this way since it was not your personal records the
> > > consul was combing through while posting as "fpasquinus". The consul was
> > > searching through *my* personal records while posting as "fpasquinus".
> > >
> > > If it was not him, there was a breach in the security of his account. Did
> > > he notify Yahoo! as required? Did he notify *anyone* that someone had broken
> > > into his home and work computers and had gained access to the private
> > > records of the Respublica?
> > >
> > > The consul claimed to know who it was, at first, someone he "thought was a
> > > friend". If in fact it was him, then he liked and falsely stated and
> > > misrepresented himself.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70950 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database.  How a consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not being violated. 

It is hardly a breach of security and privacy.  As a consul he is legally entitled to that information.

Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue.  It has no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis.  You can get emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
 

Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed their privacy in our Constitution.

That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a violation of our privacy.



Vale,

Cato



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70951 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Watergate?  Hardly.  Nixon wasn't entitled to the information he stole.

Complutensis as consul WAS/IS legally entitled access to the database.

Yet another attempt at obfuscation!

Valete;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Robert <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
 

*cough* Watergate *cough*




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70952 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Here's another example of the irony that the BA rats are crying about ethics violations while committing their own.

I've been banned from the Back Alley.

What was I banned for? No reason. Fabius just felt like banning me. He claims it's because I violated his rule about using the word "liar"(this word is banned on the back alley, the list of supposed free speech). Well I hadn't used the word liar after the ban came in to effect, but I did say "Another lie." when in response to a lie posted by Sulla.

Fabius concluded "When you say some is lying you called them a liar." And he says this even though I've used synonyms for the SAME EXACT THING previously, such as: prevarication, falsehood, etc. Apparently saying something is a lie isn't calling someone a liar unless you actually use the word "lie".

So, even though I never broke his silly rule, I'm still being banned. Not only that, but his rule calls for a warning first, and then if someone uses "liar" a second time, they get banned. I got an email telling me to apologize for calling sulla a liar(even though I didn't actually call him one) and when I refused he banned me.

So not only is he twisting his "not allowed to use the word liar" rule to include the the word "lie", he's also twisting the penalty part so that I'm banned without having said it a second time.

This is exactly what I said would happen. I said I'd be banned for no reason, and the BA rats would make up some ridiculous rule to get rid of their only serious opposition left on the list. And despite Sulla's spittling attempts to say "nuh uh, the fact that you're still on the list proves we don't ban our enemies", we can all see that this was also a lie.

So let's recap, maior, myself, livia, anda few others who are against the BA have been removed and/or banned. in the last 2 months.

I told you Maior's banning was a farce, and so is mine.

The BA can't seriously claim to be a bastion of free speech, when they have clearly demonstrated the only "free speech" is by those who aren't the enemies of the BA rats.


And they whine about ethics violation. This is the epitome of hypocrisy and irony. The rats are your senators, folks. These guys are part of the Powers That Be in Nova Roma. And because you have people like that in the Senate, your organization will stagnate, flounder, and dwindle.

The people of NR need to seriously overhaul this mess. Rid yourself of the rats!


/end rant

-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70953 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Interesting that Compy focused on his political adversaries.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Watergate? Hardly. Nixon wasn't entitled to the information he stole.
>
> Complutensis as consul WAS/IS legally entitled access to the database.
>
> Yet another attempt at obfuscation!
>
> Valete;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Robert <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > *cough* Watergate *cough*
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70954 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Hi Everyone,

  Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.

                                                                                            David

--- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> escreveu:

De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...>
Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34

 

Salve "lepus" 
the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.

I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

 

Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

 

Salve Davide;
if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
Sure post it.

Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail

if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Maior,
>
>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                                                                                  David
>
>
>       
>
> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete Davide;
>
> please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
>
>
> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
>
>
> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
>
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
>
> optime vale
>
> Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> > bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> > M. Hortensia Maior
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Greetings Everyone,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > David
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
>
> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes




Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70955 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Sullae sal,

> Re-read your post that I was responding too. I am asking you to prove your claim.

I did many times. Re-read my messages.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70956 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Hi "Lepus",
There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!

To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.

I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
Ciao,
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

 

Hi Everyone,

  Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.

                                                                                            David

--- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34

 

Salve "lepus" 
the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.

I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

 

Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

 

Salve Davide;
if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
Sure post it.

Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Maior,
>
>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                                                                                  David
>
>
>       
>
> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete Davide;
>
> please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
>
>
> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
>
>
> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
>
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
>
> optime vale
>
> Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> > bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> > M. Hortensia Maior
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Greetings Everyone,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
> >
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> > >
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> > > David
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>
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
>
> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>
> >
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> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes




Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70957 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Modianus sal.

Salve.

No, Modianus, you're missing the point. The very same computer that was used to search the database is the computer that was used to post on this Forum as "fpasquinus" (the odds against it are something like 1:30,000 - I can get you the basis for that figure if you'd like).

So if the person at that computer was NOT the consul, we have a stranger searching through our personal files. This is a serious breach of our personal privacy, privacy guaranteed us by the Constitution.

If the person at that computer WAS the consul, he's a liar.

I see you're starting along the road favored by Regulus and Dexter. Enjoy.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database. How a
> consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not
> being violated.
>
> It is hardly a breach of security and privacy. As a consul he is legally
> entitled to that information.
>
> Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue. It has
> no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis. You can get
> emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but
> perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being
> > searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide
> > what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed
> > their privacy in our Constitution.
> >
> > That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used
> > immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a
> > violation of our privacy.
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70958 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Modianus has no choice but to defend the person who put him in office illegally, Cato. It's not Modianus's fault he is tied to Compy in illegality.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Modianus sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> No, Modianus, you're missing the point. The very same computer that was used to search the database is the computer that was used to post on this Forum as "fpasquinus" (the odds against it are something like 1:30,000 - I can get you the basis for that figure if you'd like).
>
> So if the person at that computer was NOT the consul, we have a stranger searching through our personal files. This is a serious breach of our personal privacy, privacy guaranteed us by the Constitution.
>
> If the person at that computer WAS the consul, he's a liar.
>
> I see you're starting along the road favored by Regulus and Dexter. Enjoy.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database. How a
> > consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not
> > being violated.
> >
> > It is hardly a breach of security and privacy. As a consul he is legally
> > entitled to that information.
> >
> > Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue. It has
> > no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis. You can get
> > emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but
> > perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Modiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being
> > > searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide
> > > what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed
> > > their privacy in our Constitution.
> > >
> > > That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used
> > > immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a
> > > violation of our privacy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70959 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> I see you're starting along the road favored by Regulus and Dexter. Enjoy.

Clap clap clap.
Many imagination. It is worst than paranoia.

Not only you are no evidences, but you make a very bad detective novel. I prefer Sherlock Holmes cases.

Cato had been seated for some seconds in silence, with his short, fat back curved over a computer keyboard from which he was typing a particularly malodorous mail.
"So, Sulla," said he rudely, "you do not propose to investigate in Spain?"
"How on earth do you know that?" Sulla asked.
"I see connection."

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70961 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salve Davide;
I worked on 2 censorial cohors. Please don't email the censors, neither are Latinists who can judge if your cognomen will be allowed. The latinists always check names.

Write or post here :Latin name need Latinists...
or write directly to Dexter, Lentulus, Scholastica who are NR's great latinists. Two: Lentulus and Scholastica work on the censorial cohors.

Latin is a great language the mother of all the Romance languages so you will find many connections. Provencal was the first vernacular to develop from Latin and is still famous. I love Portuguese for it's beaautiful sounds: 'x' = sh, and nasals =ao, I'm very fond of fado, especially Mariza and the great Caesaria Evora.
optime vale
Maior


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Hi "Lepus",
>
> There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
>
> To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
>
> I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
> Ciao,
>
> Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor. Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
>
> David
>
> --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
>
> >De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
> >Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > >
> >Salve "lepus"
> >According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html
> >
> >the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
> >
> >I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
> >Tiberius Marci Quadra
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
> > ps.com
> >Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >
> > >
> >Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
> >
> > Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right. By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
> >
> >--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
> >
> >
> >>De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> >>Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>Data:
> >> Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >>Salve Davide;
> >>>> if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
> >>
> >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
> >>>> Sure post it.
> >>
> >>>>Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
> >>
> >>>>You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
> >>
> >>>>As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
> >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail
> >>
> >>>>if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
> >>>> optime vale
> >>>> Maior
> >>
> >>>>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Maior,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> >>>>> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>>>> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>>>> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Salvete Davide;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> optime vale
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maior
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Salve Davide;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > bene vale in pacem Veneris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > Greetings Everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > David
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> >>>>> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> >>>>> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> ________________________________
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
> >
>
> ________________________________
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70962 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Modianus has no choice but to defend the person who put him in office illegally, Cato. It's not Modianus's fault he is tied to Compy in illegality.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>


Nova Roma, witness how your esteemed Senator(who had to threaten to sue in order to be a senator) blatantly lies about others in NR.

Where are the cries for ethics in regards to the unethical sulla? Surely telling lies about others is unethical? Does Nova Roma want liars for Senators?

-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70963 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Anna, in a week when your suspension is over and when you apologize to me then you can rejoin the BA.

C-ya later until then.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Modianus has no choice but to defend the person who put him in office illegally, Cato. It's not Modianus's fault he is tied to Compy in illegality.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
>
>
> Nova Roma, witness how your esteemed Senator(who had to threaten to sue in order to be a senator) blatantly lies about others in NR.
>
> Where are the cries for ethics in regards to the unethical sulla? Surely telling lies about others is unethical? Does Nova Roma want liars for Senators?
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70964 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: slightly OT: language learning sites
Salvete;
for those interested in learning online for free, I found this site which looks interesting

http://www.livemocha.com/ they have lessons for a number of languages and a program that lets you connect with native speakers.I really like that, but just found it so I can't vouch.
optime vale
Maior
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70965 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Cato Maiori sal.

Salve.

He should write to the censors; they are perfectly capable of giving their cohors the work if necessary. Remember all the fuss about people being capable of doing the work of a censor at election time? Let them do their job.

One might think you wrote simply to disagree with me :)

Vale!

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Davide;
> I worked on 2 censorial cohors. Please don't email the censors, neither are Latinists who can judge if your cognomen will be allowed. The latinists always check names.
>
> Write or post here :Latin name need Latinists...
> or write directly to Dexter, Lentulus, Scholastica who are NR's great latinists. Two: Lentulus and Scholastica work on the censorial cohors.
>
> Latin is a great language the mother of all the Romance languages so you will find many connections. Provencal was the first vernacular to develop from Latin and is still famous. I love Portuguese for it's beaautiful sounds: 'x' = sh, and nasals =ao, I'm very fond of fado, especially Mariza and the great Caesaria Evora.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi "Lepus",
> >
> > There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
> >
> > To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
> >
> > I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Tiberius Marci Quadra
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor. Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
> >
> > David
> >
> > --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
> >
> >
> > >De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
> > >Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> > >Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > >Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >Salve "lepus"
> > >According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html
> > >
> > >the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
> > >
> > >I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
> > >Tiberius Marci Quadra
> > >
> > >
> > ________________________________
> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
> > >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
> > > ps.com
> > >Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> > >
> > > >
> > >Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right. By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
> > >
> > >--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
> > >
> > >
> > >>De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> > >>Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> > >>Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > >>Data:
> > >> Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >>
> > >>Salve Davide;
> > >>>> if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
> > >>
> > >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
> > >>>> Sure post it.
> > >>
> > >>>>Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
> > >>
> > >>>>You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
> > >>
> > >>>>As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
> > >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail
> > >>
> > >>>>if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
> > >>>> optime vale
> > >>>> Maior
> > >>
> > >>>>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hi Maior,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> David
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> > >>>>> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> > >>>>> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > >>>>> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Salvete Davide;
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> optime vale
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Maior
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Salve Davide;
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus Dea Venus!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > bene vale in pacem Veneris
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > Greetings Everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > > David
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > >>>>> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> > >>>>> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
> > >>>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > ________________________________
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70966 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Anna, in a week when your suspension is over and when you apologize to me then you can rejoin the BA.
>
> C-ya later until then.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>


When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.

-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70967 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Then Per Fabius's statement you wont be allowed back on the BA. You will be welcome back to the BA when you comply with Fabius's statement.

Cya,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Anna, in a week when your suspension is over and when you apologize to me then you can rejoin the BA.
> >
> > C-ya later until then.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
>
>
> When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70968 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Then Per Fabius's statement you wont be allowed back on the BA. You will be welcome back to the BA when you comply with Fabius's statement.
>


Unlike you, I am not a liar and I don't give false aplogies. Anything "per Fabius's statement" is worthless since he can't even stick to his own rules. Even if I did lie and give you a false apology, there's nothing compelling him to lift his farcical ban.

-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70969 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,

> When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.

Nice and Roman response.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70970 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Salve Annae;
stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
>
> C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
>
> > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
>
> Nice and Roman response.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70971 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Hi "Lepus",
There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!

    ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.

To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.

    ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo-Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English welcomes all.  

    BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  

    If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  

I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other

    ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  

Ciao,
Tiberius Marci Quadra

Valete.  

From: David Alan <david.alan99@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

  
 

Hi Everyone,

  Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.

                                                                                            David

--- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34

   Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21.com/translator/english_to_latin.html>
the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.

I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo.com> . br>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

   
Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

   Salve Davide;
 if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
 Sure post it.

Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
 optime vale
 Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Maior,
>
>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                                                                                  David
>
>
>        
>
> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
>
>
>     
>                   Salvete Davide;
>
>  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
>
>
> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
>
>
> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
>
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo.com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
>
>                  optime vale
>
>                    Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
>
> >                   Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> >                 M. Hortensia Maior
>
 
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
 >
>
> > > Greetings Everyone,
>
>
> >
>
> > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> > >                                                       David
>
> >
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70972 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
LOL Whatever, Anna. Just know that when you do apologize to me, you will then be able to return. (after your week suspension.)

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@> wrote:
> >
> > Then Per Fabius's statement you wont be allowed back on the BA. You will be welcome back to the BA when you comply with Fabius's statement.
> >
>
>
> Unlike you, I am not a liar and I don't give false aplogies. Anything "per Fabius's statement" is worthless since he can't even stick to his own rules. Even if I did lie and give you a false apology, there's nothing compelling him to lift his farcical ban.
>
> -Anna
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70973 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
A. Tullia Scholastica K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database.  How a consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not being violated. 

It is hardly a breach of security and privacy.  As a consul he is legally entitled to that information.

    ATS: I would also mention in this regard that Complutensis was a senior censorial scriba for several years, and at that time probably still served in that capacity.  His duties included assigning probationary citizens to the various scribae, and training his successors in such matters.  There is nothing remotely unusual about his accessing the database, nor did he have to be consul to do so, though he also had to check candidate eligibility, which (I believe) did require holding an elected office.  As for the other technical issues mentioned, I shall remain silent as I do not have the expertise in such fields to be able to determine their validity, especially since virtually everything I have seen has been presented by one side only.  

    Oh Cato, the database contains what is/was in the Album Civium, which is/was viewable by all (when we still had it, anyway), plus the contents of the citizenship application, the voter code, and notes about which scriba handled one’s case, name changes, address changes, resignation of citizenship, etc.  The latter applies to you, and it might be relevant just when you resigned, and when you were readmitted.  There is nothing odd about checking those facts.  

CFBM:  Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue.  It has no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis.  You can get emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."

Vale;

Modianus

Valete.  



On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
 
 
 

Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being searched through.  Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed their privacy in our Constitution.  

That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a violation of our privacy.



Vale,

Cato

    

  

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70974 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:33 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:


.  There is nothing remotely unusual about his accessing the database, nor did he have to be consul to do so, though he also had to check candidate eligibility, which (I believe) did require holding an elected office. 

Well yes, of course, but if his computer accessed the database at the time he says it was hacked and someone else was actually using it. Then who was actually accessing the information and why?

Flavia Lucilla Merula

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70975 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> LOL Whatever, Anna. Just know that when you do apologize to me, you will then be able to return. (after your week suspension.)
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>


So you're saying the Back Alley requires me to lie before I can join it.


Interesting, and not surprising.


-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70976 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

 A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Majori quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    
 

Salve Davide;
 I worked on 2 censorial cohors. Please don't email the censors, neither are Latinists who can judge if your cognomen will be allowed. The latinists always check names.

Write or post here :Latin name need Latinists...
or write directly to Dexter, Lentulus, Scholastica who are NR's great latinists. Two: Lentulus and Scholastica  work on the censorial cohors.

    ATS:  So does Dexter.  Technically, we also have Tullius Valerianus, but he never showed up due to connection problems.  
 
Latin is a great language the mother of all the Romance languages so you will find many connections. Provencal was the first vernacular to develop from Latin and is still famous. I love Portuguese for it's beaautiful sounds: 'x' = sh, and nasals =ao, I'm very fond of fado, especially Mariza and the great Caesaria Evora.
 optime vale
 Maior

Vale, et valete.  

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Hi "Lepus",
>
> There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
>
> To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
>
> I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
> Ciao,
>
> Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
>   
> Hi Everyone,
>
>   Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
>
>                                                                                             David
>
> --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
>
> >De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
> >Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
> >
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >  >
> >Salve "lepus"
> >According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html
> >
> >the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
> >
> >I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
> >Tiberius Marci Quadra
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
> >To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou
> > ps.com
> >Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >
> >  >
> >Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
> >
> >  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
> >
> >--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
> >
> >
> >>De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> >>Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>Data:
> >> Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>  >>
> >>Salve Davide;
> >>>> if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
> >>
> >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name
> >>>>  Sure post it.
> >>
> >>>>Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
> >>
> >>>>You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
> >>
> >>>>As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
> >>http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail
> >>
> >>>>if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
> >>>>                    optime vale
> >>>>                         Maior
> >>
> >>>>--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Maior,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                                                                                                  David
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>        
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> >>>>> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>>>> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>>>> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                   Salvete Davide;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/ReligioRom ana/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                  optime vale
> >>>>>
> >>>>>                    Maior
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >                   Salve Davide;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >                 M. Hortensia Maior
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > > Greetings Everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > >                                                       David

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70977 From: livia_plauta Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Livia Catoni sal.

Well, you must be now convinced that Pasquinus was not Complutensis if you are worried about unauthorized access to the citizen database.

It seems we were lucky, though: there's no evidence of unauthorized access. In fact, there's no way to see who accessed any given record. If indeed an unauthorized person had accessed the database the only way they could leave traces was if they changed something, and that didn't happen.
The time window for Pasquinus to act was quite narrow: only a few days, and maybe it didn't occur to him to hack his way into the database.

Cato, why do you assume your database record was accessed? Did anyone divulge any information about you which is not on Facebook, but only in the database?

Optime vale,
Livia


>
> Cato Modianus sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> No, Modianus, you're missing the point. The very same computer that was used to search the database is the computer that was used to post on this Forum as "fpasquinus" (the odds against it are something like 1:30,000 - I can get you the basis for that figure if you'd like).
>
> So if the person at that computer was NOT the consul, we have a stranger searching through our personal files. This is a serious breach of our personal privacy, privacy guaranteed us by the Constitution.
>
> If the person at that computer WAS the consul, he's a liar.
>
> I see you're starting along the road favored by Regulus and Dexter. Enjoy.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database. How a
> > consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not
> > being violated.
> >
> > It is hardly a breach of security and privacy. As a consul he is legally
> > entitled to that information.
> >
> > Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue. It has
> > no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis. You can get
> > emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but
> > perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Modiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being
> > > searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide
> > > what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed
> > > their privacy in our Constitution.
> > >
> > > That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used
> > > immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a
> > > violation of our privacy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70978 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics

 
 A. Tullia Scholastica Fl. Lucillae Merulae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.



On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:33 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:


 
.  There is nothing remotely unusual about his accessing the database, nor did he have to be consul to do so, though he also had to check candidate eligibility, which (I believe) did require holding an elected office. 

Well yes, of course, but if his computer accessed the database at the time he says it was hacked and someone else was actually using it. Then who was actually accessing the information and why?

    ATS:  This is a purely technical issue.  As I noted in that post, I am not qualified to discuss that issue, or any which depend on a knowledge of IT.  Perhaps someone else did indeed hack his computer (I had received spam from it).  

Flavia Lucilla Merula

Vale, et valete.

  
    

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70979 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Tuilliae Scholasticae sal.

Salve.

The point is that Complutensis is saying that it WAS NOT HIM using his computer at the time, it was someone else - someone he at first claimed was his "friend" (remember?) but apparently was not, just someone with access to his home and work computers. If it was someone else, then they had absolutely no business in our personal information.

You do realize, of course, that the list of information you blithely tossed out is much, much more complete than is simply contained in our Album Civium, don't you? How would you like it if you found out that some unknown entity was looking through your personal information?

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70980 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salvete;
my apologies to C. Petronius Dexter, I didn't know he was on the censorial cohors. If only we'd had that when I became a citizen, I wouldn't have had to change my name so many times;-)

> >
> > ATS: There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.
> >
Maior: that reminds me of that iffy moment in Galway, Ireland trying to decide which door marked in Irish was the ladies room. Due to trusty Latin, I figured "Fir" was Irish for "vir" & yes I went into "Mna" :) happy ending for all involved.


> >
> > ATS: All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin. It does
> > take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.
>
Maior: I've taken Sermo I & II, and am auditing Intermediate Latin at my local university. It is great & challenging. We've a local Latin Speaking Circle and that helps enormously plus it is a lot of fun. I just joined but was just put in charge of our Saturnalia party;-)
optime vale
Maior
having a bit of fun learning Hindi over at Live Mocha
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70981 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Liviae sal.

Salve.

Because we have a record of the database being accessed by Complutensis' own computer. And no, they don't have to change anything to leave a record.

You seem to be forgetting that since Complutensis is claiming that it was not him, someone accessed his computer within 16 minutes of he himself using it at one point - not days, or even hours - MINUTES.

If it was not him, he had a responsibility to report this AT LEAST to Yahoo! and the citizens whose information was dug into.

Look, Livia, it is glaringly obvious that you - and Modianus, and Dexter, and several others - are simply not interested in accepting the overwhelming evidence (yes, "evidence", not "proof") that points squarely at Complutensis. You are his political ally, and it behooves you to simply waffle until you think people either forget or don't care.

Any hope of an investigation by the Senate (as promised by Severus) is ludicrous at this point, and people like yourself will never admit that the evidence - overwhelming though it is - is "enough" for you. So be it.

But don't then either simply pass off as acceptable the idea that our database was accessed by some unknown entity (as Modianus and Scholastica do) or continue the charade that Complutensis wasn't involved. One or the other is true, and in either case the consul failed to act appropriately.

Vale,

Cato





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Livia Catoni sal.
>
> Well, you must be now convinced that Pasquinus was not Complutensis if you are worried about unauthorized access to the citizen database.
>
> It seems we were lucky, though: there's no evidence of unauthorized access. In fact, there's no way to see who accessed any given record. If indeed an unauthorized person had accessed the database the only way they could leave traces was if they changed something, and that didn't happen.
> The time window for Pasquinus to act was quite narrow: only a few days, and maybe it didn't occur to him to hack his way into the database.
>
> Cato, why do you assume your database record was accessed? Did anyone divulge any information about you which is not on Facebook, but only in the database?
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> >
> > Cato Modianus sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > No, Modianus, you're missing the point. The very same computer that was used to search the database is the computer that was used to post on this Forum as "fpasquinus" (the odds against it are something like 1:30,000 - I can get you the basis for that figure if you'd like).
> >
> > So if the person at that computer was NOT the consul, we have a stranger searching through our personal files. This is a serious breach of our personal privacy, privacy guaranteed us by the Constitution.
> >
> > If the person at that computer WAS the consul, he's a liar.
> >
> > I see you're starting along the road favored by Regulus and Dexter. Enjoy.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
> > >
> > > He also has a right by our laws to have access to the database. How a
> > > consul uses the database is up to the consul as long as our laws are not
> > > being violated.
> > >
> > > It is hardly a breach of security and privacy. As a consul he is legally
> > > entitled to that information.
> > >
> > > Again.... you're making an issue over something that isn't an issue. It has
> > > no bearing upon the allegations against Complutensis. You can get
> > > emotionally distraught because someone looked you up in the database, but
> > > perhaps you should see a counselor and work towards "getting over it."
> > >
> > > Vale;
> > >
> > > Modianus
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cato Modiano sal.
> > > >
> > > > Salve.
> > > >
> > > > It may not be "that big a deal" to *you* since *your* files weren't being
> > > > searched through. Not only that, but you do not have the right to decide
> > > > what should or should not be kept confidential, as citizens are guaranteed
> > > > their privacy in our Constitution.
> > > >
> > > > That whatever information was gleaned from my files was not used
> > > > immediately is of no consequence; it is a breach of our security and a
> > > > violation of our privacy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70982 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Hi Everyone,

   Hey Maior, thanks for the compliment, yeah, I also think my nativa toungue is beautiful. But to which Portuguese would you be referring to? The one spoken in Portugal or the one spoken in Brazil? I speak the one spoken in Brazil, and there's a whole big difference in accent. The way they speak it in Portugal is so different from the one we speak here, that sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what someone from Portugal is saying. It's like the English spoken in the U.S and the one spoken in England. I know that I have a hard time understanding some English people too, specially when their accent is really strong.
  As far as whom I should mail I would like to ask to Scholastica, since you were mentioned here, if I could mail you tonight regarding the choice of my name. Thanks.

                                                                                                            David

--- Em qua, 7/10/09, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> escreveu:

De: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Quarta-feira, 7 de Outubro de 2009, 21:12

 

A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
 
 

Hi "Lepus",
There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!

    ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.

To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.

    ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo- Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English welcomes all.  

    BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  

    If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  

I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other

    ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  

Ciao,
Tiberius Marci Quadra

Valete.  

From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

  
 

Hi Everyone,

  Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.

                                                                                            David

--- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34

   Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html>
the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.

I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
Tiberius Marci Quadra

From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo. com> . br>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction

   
Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,

  Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.

--- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03

   Salve Davide;
 if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.

http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
 Sure post it.

Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?

You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.

As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail

if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
 optime vale
 Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Maior,
>
>   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
>                                                                                                  David
>
>
>        
>
> --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
>
>
>     
>                   Salvete Davide;
>
>  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
>
>
> We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
>
>
> here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
>
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo. com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
>
>                  optime vale
>
>                    Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
>
> >                   Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> >                 M. Hortensia Maior
>
 
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
 >
>
> > > Greetings Everyone,
>
>
> >
>
> > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> > >                                                       David
>
> >



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70983 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
"Any hope of an investigation by the Senate (as promised by Severus) is ludicrous at this point, and people like yourself will never admit that the evidence - overwhelming though it is - is "enough" for you. So be it."

Thanks be to the Gods.  You're going to abandon this whole issue and now bother the senate.  I am very pleased to hear this.

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
 

Cato Liviae sal.

Salve.

Because we have a record of the database being accessed by Complutensis' own computer. And no, they don't have to change anything to leave a record.

You seem to be forgetting that since Complutensis is claiming that it was not him, someone accessed his computer within 16 minutes of he himself using it at one point - not days, or even hours - MINUTES.

If it was not him, he had a responsibility to report this AT LEAST to Yahoo! and the citizens whose information was dug into.

Look, Livia, it is glaringly obvious that you - and Modianus, and Dexter, and several others - are simply not interested in accepting the overwhelming evidence (yes, "evidence", not "proof") that points squarely at Complutensis. You are his political ally, and it behooves you to simply waffle until you think people either forget or don't care.

Any hope of an investigation by the Senate (as promised by Severus) is ludicrous at this point, and people like yourself will never admit that the evidence - overwhelming though it is - is "enough" for you. So be it.

But don't then either simply pass off as acceptable the idea that our database was accessed by some unknown entity (as Modianus and Scholastica do) or continue the charade that Complutensis wasn't involved. One or the other is true, and in either case the consul failed to act appropriately.

Vale,

Cato




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70984 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-07
Subject: Re: Ethics
Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

How indicative of your level of commitment to the ideals of the office you hold that you are so relieved at the idea of an investigation into a breach of public morality - one that you claimed you took so "seriously" - not being undertaken. Read very carefully what I wrote before you start sending congratulatory messages to each other.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> "Any hope of an investigation by the Senate (as promised by Severus) is
> ludicrous at this point, and people like yourself will never admit that the
> evidence - overwhelming though it is - is "enough" for you. So be it."
>
> Thanks be to the Gods. You're going to abandon this whole issue and now
> bother the senate. I am very pleased to hear this.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Liviae sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > Because we have a record of the database being accessed by Complutensis'
> > own computer. And no, they don't have to change anything to leave a record.
> >
> > You seem to be forgetting that since Complutensis is claiming that it was
> > not him, someone accessed his computer within 16 minutes of he himself using
> > it at one point - not days, or even hours - MINUTES.
> >
> > If it was not him, he had a responsibility to report this AT LEAST to
> > Yahoo! and the citizens whose information was dug into.
> >
> > Look, Livia, it is glaringly obvious that you - and Modianus, and Dexter,
> > and several others - are simply not interested in accepting the overwhelming
> > evidence (yes, "evidence", not "proof") that points squarely at
> > Complutensis. You are his political ally, and it behooves you to simply
> > waffle until you think people either forget or don't care.
> >
> > Any hope of an investigation by the Senate (as promised by Severus) is
> > ludicrous at this point, and people like yourself will never admit that the
> > evidence - overwhelming though it is - is "enough" for you. So be it.
> >
> > But don't then either simply pass off as acceptable the idea that our
> > database was accessed by some unknown entity (as Modianus and Scholastica
> > do) or continue the charade that Complutensis wasn't involved. One or the
> > other is true, and in either case the consul failed to act appropriately.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70985 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
L. Iulia Aquila Omnibus sal

I posted some images of clay figurines from ancient Rome if anyone would like to use them as inspiration for Saturnalia, or other, figurines:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622539874414/
Here are Saturnus and Ops figurines for the Saturnalia centerpiece I made as examples for the Saturnalia committee here in Nashville:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622415439159/
I made Ops in about six hours and Saturnus took 14, mainly because I worked on the details of his head quite a bit more – normally a project like this takes me a few months and so the details suffered, the phi is off some (arms too long for example) – I'm also not used to using this type of clay for such small projects. However clay figurines for Saturnalia can be a family affair, making them rather than buying, and so they are generally more rustic. I am going to make smaller, less detailed ones, and let the children paint them I think. I also have some traditional clay that will air dry and may make a couple of figures in the style of one of the images. I doubt I will glaze anything.
Once the clay matures a bit I'll sand down the some of the edges if I have the time and maybe repair and refine some details – but probably not ;). Working on Saturnus' head did make me order a magnifying glass on a stand for detail work so I do not go blind should I do more close work like this in the future.
The armature and supports I had are actually for bigger projects and the clay is different than traditional clay and in humid conditions it is almost too soft to work with. Ops suffered the worst, it was extremely humid and about 75 degrees the day I worked on her and the clay became a bit too warm and soft so it was like working on ever shifting chiaroscuro – like most women she was prone to gravity – besides looking a bit Asian and the cornucopia collapsed a little. Because of the soft condition of the clay, and partly because I was going blind from the close work, Saturnus hands and feet are not very finely detailed and a bit big – he needed the big feet to help him stand, there was a little shifting during the drying phase *laughs* not to mention the wooden stick in his butt to help support him – which I removed after "ovening".
I didn't have enough red for the Saturnus' cloak so I had to mix in a red pearl color and so – it shines more than I would have liked. I suppose it will be festive.
Saturnus and Ops will be surrounded by foliage, fruits and veggies, sweets and various decorations, candles, oil lamps (et fire extinguisher) and what is growing into an incredible menu of food. We have an entire home rented here in Nashville TN for the evening, 7 rooms, 3 BR, and a theater in the finished basement so we can handle a large crowd – so if any of you have December 19th free you are invited to come and join us. If you are interested here is a link for more info:
http://www.meetup.com/Temple-Of-Venus/calendar/11150355/

Bene valéte in pacem deorum

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70986 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Maior and the BA
Salve Maior,
 
The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
 
You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
 
You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
 
You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
 
Vale
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: rory12001@...
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics

 
Salve Annae;
stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
>
> > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
>
> Nice and Roman response.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70987 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Pauline, I posted my reasons a couple of days ago, 70686# in repsonse to Cato. But I'll repost it again. And continue on to more pleasant topics.

Post 70686
Salve;
I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off
the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.

It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am
glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?

When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?

when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?

when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve Maior,
>
>
>
> The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
>
>
>
> You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: rory12001@...
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Annae;
> stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
> >
> > > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
> >
> > Nice and Roman response.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70988 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
M. Hortensia L. Juliae spd;
they are wonderful Julia! I had no idea what a talented artist you are. I would imaging the little clay figures would be rustic, that's the charm so melty Ops is perfect:)
hmm I'm very keen to have Fauna/Bona Dea...
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> L. Iulia Aquila Omnibus sal
>
> I posted some images of clay figurines from ancient Rome if anyone would like to use them as inspiration for Saturnalia, or other, figurines:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622539874414/
> Here are Saturnus and Ops figurines for the Saturnalia centerpiece I made as examples for the Saturnalia committee here in Nashville:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622415439159/
> I made Ops in about six hours and Saturnus took 14, mainly because I worked on the details of his head quite a bit more – normally a project like this takes me a few months and so the details suffered, the phi is off some (arms too long for example) – I'm also not used to using this type of clay for such small projects. However clay figurines for Saturnalia can be a family affair, making them rather than buying, and so they are generally more rustic. I am going to make smaller, less detailed ones, and let the children paint them I think. I also have some traditional clay that will air dry and may make a couple of figures in the style of one of the images. I doubt I will glaze anything.
> Once the clay matures a bit I'll sand down the some of the edges if I have the time and maybe repair and refine some details – but probably not ;). Working on Saturnus' head did make me order a magnifying glass on a stand for detail work so I do not go blind should I do more close work like this in the future.
> The armature and supports I had are actually for bigger projects and the clay is different than traditional clay and in humid conditions it is almost too soft to work with. Ops suffered the worst, it was extremely humid and about 75 degrees the day I worked on her and the clay became a bit too warm and soft so it was like working on ever shifting chiaroscuro – like most women she was prone to gravity – besides looking a bit Asian and the cornucopia collapsed a little. Because of the soft condition of the clay, and partly because I was going blind from the close work, Saturnus hands and feet are not very finely detailed and a bit big – he needed the big feet to help him stand, there was a little shifting during the drying phase *laughs* not to mention the wooden stick in his butt to help support him – which I removed after "ovening".
> I didn't have enough red for the Saturnus' cloak so I had to mix in a red pearl color and so – it shines more than I would have liked. I suppose it will be festive.
> Saturnus and Ops will be surrounded by foliage, fruits and veggies, sweets and various decorations, candles, oil lamps (et fire extinguisher) and what is growing into an incredible menu of food. We have an entire home rented here in Nashville TN for the evening, 7 rooms, 3 BR, and a theater in the finished basement so we can handle a large crowd – so if any of you have December 19th free you are invited to come and join us. If you are interested here is a link for more info:
> http://www.meetup.com/Temple-Of-Venus/calendar/11150355/
>
> Bene valéte in pacem deorum
>
> Julia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70989 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: a.d. VIII Id. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Idus Octobris; haec dies fastus aterque est.

"When the envoys had withdrawn, the senate proceeded to discuss the
question. Many of the members realised how the largest and richest
city in Italy, with a very productive country near the sea, could
become the granary of Rome, and supply every variety of provision.
Notwithstanding, however, loyalty to treaties outweighed even these
great advantages, and the consul was authorised by the senate to give
the following reply: 'The senate is of opinion, Campanians, that you
are worthy of our aid, but justice demands that friendship with you
hall be established on such a footing that no older friendship and
alliance is thereby impaired. Therefore we refuse to employ on your
behalf against the Samnites arms which would offend the gods sooner
than they injured men. We shall, as is just and right, send an embassy
to our allies and friends to ask that no hostile violence be offered
you.' Thereupon the leader of the embassy, acting according
to the instructions they had brought with them, said: 'Even though you
are not willing to make a just use of force against brute force and
injustice in defence of what belongs to us, you will at all events
defend what belongs to you. Wherefore we now place under your sway and
jurisdiction, senators, and that of the Roman people, the people of
Campania and the city of Capua, its fields, its sacred temples, all
things human and divine. Henceforth we are prepared to suffer what we
may have to suffer as men who have surrendered themselves into
your hands.' At these words they all burst into tears and stretching
out their hands towards the consul they prostrated themselves on the
floor of the vestibule. The senators were deeply moved by this
instance of the vicissitudes of human fortune, where a people
abounding in wealth, famous for their pride and luxuriousness, and
from whom, shortly before, their neighbours had sought assistance,
were now so broken in spirit that they put themselves and all that
belonged to them under the power and authority of others. It at once
became a matter of honour that men who had formally surrendered
themselves should not be left to their fate, and it was resolved 'that
the Samnite nation would commit a wrongful act if they attacked a city
and territory which had by surrender become the possession of Rome.'
They determined to lose no time in despatching envoys to the Samnites.
Their instructions were to lay before them the request of the
Campanians, the reply which the senate, mindful of their friendly
relations with the Samnites, had given, and lastly the surrender which
had been made. They were to request the Samnites, in virtue of the
friendship and alliance which existed between them, to spare those who
had made a surrender of themselves and to take no hostile action
against that territory which had become the possession of the Roman
people. If these mild remonstrances proved ineffective, they were to
solemnly warn the Samnites in the name of the senate and people of
Rome to keep their hands off the city of Capua and the territory
of Campania.

The envoys delivered their instructions in the national council of
Samnium. The reply they received was couched in such defiant terms
that not only did the Samnites declare their intention of pursuing the
war against Capua, but their magistrates went outside the council
chamber and, in tones loud enough for the envoys to bear, ordered the
prefects of cohorts to march at once into the Campanian territory and
ravage it." - Livy, History of Rome 7.31


On this day in ancient Greece, the Athenians celebrated the return of
King Theseus after his defeat of King Minos of Crete, who up until
then had enjoyed naval supremacy in the Mediterranean. Upon reaching
shore, the hungry Athenians immediately boiled beans and ate all their
remaining rations, it having apparently been a long voyage back. The
Athenians did likewise on this day, singing a thanksgiving for the end
of hunger. An olive branch, wreathed in white wool and hung with
fruits, is carried in procession by two young men representing the
disguised hostages. Being harvest time, this festival merged
with the Festival of Grape Boughs, and thanks are given both to
Dionysius, the god of wine, and to Athene, who guided Theseus to
victory over Crete. Fourteen mothers join the procession, representing
the fourteen hostages who were rescued when Theseus slew the king, the
so-called "Bull of Minos."

There is some confusion about Theseus' parentage, some say he is the
son of Aegeus and Aethra, and others the son of Poseidon and Aethra.
Apollodoros and Hyginus say Aethra waded out to Sphairia after
sleeping with Aegeus, and lay there with Poseidon. The next day,
Aegeus, who had been visiting Aethra at Troizen, left for his home
city of Athens. As he left, he left sandals and a sword under a large
rock; should Aethra bear a male child, she was to send him to Athens
to claim his birthright as soon as he was old enough to lift the rock
and retrieve the items.

Aethra gave birth to Theseus, who came of age and set off for Athens
with the sword and sandals, encountering and defeating six murderous
adversaries along the way. When Theseus reached Athens, Medea, the
wife of Aegeus, persuaded Aegeus to kill the as of yet unrecognized
Theseus by having him attempt to capture the savage Marathonian Bull.
Theseus does the unexpected and succeeds, so Medea tells Aegeus to
give him poisoned wine. Aegeus recognizes Theseus' sword as he is
about to drink and knocks the goblet from his lips at the last
second.

According to Plutarch and Philochoros, on the way to Marathon to kill
the bull, Theseus encounters a fierce storm and seeks shelter in the
hut of an old woman named Hecale. She promises to make a sacrifice to
Zeus if Theseus comes back successful. He comes back, finds her dead,
and builds a deme in her name. Some time after Theseus return to
Athens, trouble stirs and blood flows between the houses of Aegeus in
Athens and Minos, his brother in Crete. War and drought ensues and an
oracle demands that recompense be made to Minos. Minos demands
that seven maidens and seven youths are to be sacrificed to the
Minotaur every nine years. Theseus is among the chosen victims and
sails off to Crete, promising to Aegeus that his ship's black flag
would be replaced with a white flag if Theseus is victorious. In
Crete, Minos molests one of the maidens and Theseus becomes angry and
challenges him, boasting of his parentage by Poseidon. Minos, son of
Zeus is amused and asks Theseus to prove his heritage by retrieving a
ring from the depths of the ocean. Theseus, being a son of Poseidon,
succeeds.

Ariadne, a young woman in Crete already betrothed to Dionysus, falls
in love with Theseus and helps him defeat the Minotaur. Ariadne then
leaves Crete with Theseus, who abandons her on Dia (at Athena's
behest, according to Pherekydes). On returning to Athens Theseus
forgets to switch the black sail with the white one. Aegeus,
consequently, watching from afar believes his son is dead and hurls
himself into the sea, now known as the "Aegean", in his honor.


Valete bene!


Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70990 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Thanks be to the Gods.  You're going to abandon this whole issue and now bother the senate.  I am very pleased to hear this.

Censor Modianus

You stated on the 28th of June  that you were "concerned with 'the public morality' of this concern", that you had "asked Consul Severus to convene the Senate... to lead an inquiry into this matter" that you had "a stake in it" and it was "being taken seriously".

Now you come on here actually rejoicing that the issue is abandoned and, despite your previous assurances, you are pleased that the Senate will not (I assume that is a typo) be bothered.

You assured us you were so seriously concerned with the public morality you wanted the Senate convened to investigate it and now you rejoice and are pleased that this is not happening!

How can we ever trust you again!

Flavia Lucilla Merula



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70991 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

When it became evident to me that Sulla/Cato were out for revenge and not justice it changed my demeanor on the issue.  Even if he was guilty there was no law broken (macronational or otherwise contrary to spewed rhetoric).  It then becomes an issue of moderation and the purview of the praetores.  Likewise, censores do not convene the senate.

My patience with Sulla/Cato has grown very thin, and I believe Nova Roma would be better without them.  I have seen, however, the sort of work Complutensis has done for Nova Roma as censoral scribe and it was excellent.  I'm a bit disappointed in his term as consul -- but in his defense he has been attacked so aggressively that it is difficult to accomplish anything.

Part of morality is to consider what is best for Nova Roma.  The constant warfare we endure is not going to advance our cause.  Additionally, I am always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the positions I take.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
 



On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Thanks be to the Gods.  You're going to abandon this whole issue and now bother the senate.  I am very pleased to hear this.

Censor Modianus

You stated on the 28th of June  that you were "concerned with 'the public morality' of this concern", that you had "asked Consul Severus to convene the Senate... to lead an inquiry into this matter" that you had "a stake in it" and it was "being taken seriously".

Now you come on here actually rejoicing that the issue is abandoned and, despite your previous assurances, you are pleased that the Senate will not (I assume that is a typo) be bothered.

You assured us you were so seriously concerned with the public morality you wanted the Senate convened to investigate it and now you rejoice and are pleased that this is not happening!

How can we ever trust you again!

Flavia Lucilla Merula



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70992 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
.  Additionally, I am always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the positions I take.


So are you saying your position changed on this matter because of the signs and omens you received?

Flavia Lucilla Merula

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70993 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:54 AM, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:


When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?

As I've frequently said, I've never seen the Religio mocked on the BA - it's the one thing i wouldn't stand for because it's the whole reason I joined Nova Roma in the first place.

when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.

Maior, you have called people things on the BA that, frankly I wouldn't repeat here or anywhere, and that's nothing to do with the fact that your language would have been instantly censored here. I, personally, have never found the responses I've received on the BA anything other than friendly but then I've never come on and sworn at them and called them names such as you have. How could you expext anyone to react in a friendly way to that?

Flavia Lucilla Merula



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70994 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics

Potitus Modiano SPD.

 

Once again, you misrepresent the situation. No one has claimed that a law was broken (although a case could be made for violation of the Yahoo TOS or certain parts of the Lex Salicia). This is an ethical issue. Complutensis, in the wake of a contentious election, declared that he was taking a weekend off to meditate on it (message 66797). The results of his meditation were the ridiculous story about plastic dice (message 66963) and, less than two hours later, the first rant by Pasquinus (message 66965). As Pasquinus, he gave full voice to his rage against Sulla and others, in a way that he could not have as Complutensis. Was this just “acting out”, like angry children do, or was it a calculated plan (created during his weekend of meditation?) to add another voice to counter those people who opposed his bad decisions (allowing you to be a candidate and telling the citizens of this Republic that you could legally run)? In either case, it shows a flawed character, a lack of good judgment, and an intent to deceive people.

 

To compound the ethical issues, he lied when he was confronted with the evidence.

 

This is unethical behavior, conduct unbecoming of a leader of this organization.

 

Potitus

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 3:42 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics

 

 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

When it became evident to me that Sulla/Cato were out for revenge and not justice it changed my demeanor on the issue.  Even if he was guilty there was no law broken (macronational or otherwise contrary to spewed rhetoric).  It then becomes an issue of moderation and the purview of the praetores.  Likewise, censores do not convene the senate.

My patience with Sulla/Cato has grown very thin, and I believe Nova Roma would be better without them.  I have seen, however, the sort of work Complutensis has done for Nova Roma as censoral scribe and it was excellent.  I'm a bit disappointed in his term as consul -- but in his defense he has been attacked so aggressively that it is difficult to accomplish anything.

Part of morality is to consider what is best for Nova Roma.  The constant warfare we endure is not going to advance our cause.  Additionally, I am always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the positions I take.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan @...> wrote:

 

 

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

Thanks be to the Gods.  You're going to abandon this whole issue and now bother the senate.  I am very pleased to hear this.

Censor Modianus

You stated on the 28th of June  that you were "concerned with 'the public morality' of this concern", that you had "asked Consul Severus to convene the Senate... to lead an inquiry into this matter" that you had "a stake in it" and it was "being taken seriously".

Now you come on here actually rejoicing that the issue is abandoned and, despite your previous assurances, you are pleased that the Senate will not (I assume that is a typo) be bothered.

You assured us you were so seriously concerned with the public morality you wanted the Senate convened to investigate it and now you rejoice and are pleased that this is not happening!

How can we ever trust you again!

Flavia Lucilla Merula

 

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70995 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Yo Maior,

I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova Roma.

Sure I could have probably used Tokyo Rose - but she was forced to do the propoganda she yapped. Whereas you willingly yap your propoganda.

I stand by it now. I stood by it then.



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Pauline, I posted my reasons a couple of days ago, 70686# in repsonse to Cato. But I'll repost it again. And continue on to more pleasant topics.
>
> Post 70686
> Salve;
> I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off
> the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.
>
> It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am
> glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?
>
> When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?
>
> when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?
>
> when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve Maior,
> >
> >
> >
> > The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
> >
> >
> >
> > You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
> >
> >
> >
> > You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
> >
> >
> >
> > You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
> >
> >
> >
> > Vale
> >
> >
> >
> > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > From: rory12001@
> > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Annae;
> > stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
> > optime vale
> > Maior
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
> > >
> > > > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
> > >
> > > Nice and Roman response.
> > >
> > > Vale.
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70996 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Ah, using Religion as a tool of the state. How refreshing to see that here.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
>
> When it became evident to me that Sulla/Cato were out for revenge and not
> justice it changed my demeanor on the issue. Even if he was guilty there
> was no law broken (macronational or otherwise contrary to spewed rhetoric).
> It then becomes an issue of moderation and the purview of the praetores.
> Likewise, censores do not convene the senate.
>
> My patience with Sulla/Cato has grown very thin, and I believe Nova Roma
> would be better without them. I have seen, however, the sort of work
> Complutensis has done for Nova Roma as censoral scribe and it was
> excellent. I'm a bit disappointed in his term as consul -- but in his
> defense he has been attacked so aggressively that it is difficult to
> accomplish anything.
>
> Part of morality is to consider what is best for Nova Roma. The constant
> warfare we endure is not going to advance our cause. Additionally, I am
> always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the
> positions I take.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Kirsteen Wright <
> kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:45 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks be to the Gods. You're going to abandon this whole issue and now
> >> bother the senate. I am very pleased to hear this.
> >>
> >> Censor Modianus
> >
> > You stated on the 28th of June that you were "concerned with 'the public
> > morality' of this concern", that you had "asked Consul Severus to convene
> > the Senate... to lead an inquiry into this matter" that you had "a stake in
> > it" and it was "being taken seriously".
> >
> > Now you come on here actually rejoicing that the issue is abandoned and,
> > despite your previous assurances, you are pleased that the Senate will not
> > (I assume that is a typo) be bothered.
> >
> > You assured us you were so seriously concerned with the public morality you
> > wanted the Senate convened to investigate it and now you rejoice and are
> > pleased that this is not happening!
> >
> > How can we ever trust you again!
> >
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70997 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Nova Roma has a state religion and I'm a part of that state religion.  Make sense.

Valete;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Robert <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
 

Ah, using Religion as a tool of the state. How refreshing to see that here.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70998 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

You claim to want to "lead an investigation," but you have already convicted Complutensis.

You can claim unethical behavior all you wish, but that doesn't make it so.  If he is guilty it means his behavior was of a nature that you don't like.  It is not necessarily unethical, not high virtue either but not necessarily unethical.  I find contacting the Maine Attorney General far more un-ethical by our own standards than having a "sockpuppet" (although I am not convinced of his guilt, nor am I adding credence to such an idea).

Continued dialogue on this subject is unfruitful.  You are set in your ways.  You refuse to define what YOU mean by ethical, and you continue in your aggressive stance.  I don't see this benefiting Nova Roma.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Steve Moore <astrobear@...> wrote:
 

Potitus Modiano SPD.

 

Once again, you misrepresent the situation. No one has claimed that a law was broken (although a case could be made for violation of the Yahoo TOS or certain parts of the Lex Salicia). This is an ethical issue. Complutensis, in the wake of a contentious election, declared that he was taking a weekend off to meditate on it (message 66797). The results of his meditation were the ridiculous story about plastic dice (message 66963) and, less than two hours later, the first rant by Pasquinus (message 66965). As Pasquinus, he gave full voice to his rage against Sulla and others, in a way that he could not have as Complutensis. Was this just “acting out”, like angry children do, or was it a calculated plan (created during his weekend of meditation?) to add another voice to counter those people who opposed his bad decisions (allowing you to be a candidate and telling the citizens of this Republic that you could legally run)? In either case, it shows a flawed character, a lack of good judgment, and an intent to deceive people.

 

To compound the ethical issues, he lied when he was confronted with the evidence.

 

This is unethical behavior, conduct unbecoming of a leader of this organization.

 

Potitus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 70999 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
C. Petronius L. Juliae s.p.d.,

Impressive and charming... I am waiting for a sweety Portunus riding a dolphin.

"Qualis artifex nasceris."

Optime vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71000 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Ah, using Religion as a tool of the state. How refreshing to see that here.
>


Making fun of the *state* religion, again. How refreshing to see that here.


-Anna
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71001 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
That is typical of Sulla.  He ridicules what he does not understand.

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:15 PM, lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
 



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
>
> Ah, using Religion as a tool of the state. How refreshing to see that here.
>

Making fun of the *state* religion, again. How refreshing to see that here.

-Anna

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71002 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Nova Roma has a state religion and I'm a part of that state religion.  Make sense.


Sorry to post this again but, unless yahoo's playing up with me again, I haven't noticed a reply and it's getting kinda buried away back in this thread.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
.  Additionally, I am always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the positions I take.


So are you saying your position changed on this matter because of the signs and omens you received?

Flavia Lucilla Merula



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71003 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

I already answered that in my original message.  I'm an augur... what do you think?

I'm always looking for signs and omens, and these signs and omens have an affect on the decisions I make.  For example, I chose the school I'm going to now because on a visit while getting into my car to leave I looked up and saw 12 buzzards and I knew that it was the school I was supposed to attend. 

I typically don't make comments like this because of the response that Sulla gave.  An attempt to discredit me because I seek omens and live my life accordingly.  I don't like having my beliefs and practices ridiculed, but that is common practice here in Nova Roma.  Sad really.

Nova Roma SHOULD be so much more than what it is, and I don't think it will become what it should while there are people working so very hard to keep it down.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
 



On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.

Nova Roma has a state religion and I'm a part of that state religion.  Make sense.


Sorry to post this again but, unless yahoo's playing up with me again, I haven't noticed a reply and it's getting kinda buried away back in this thread.


On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:41 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit
.  Additionally, I am always looking for signs and omens (as an augur) and these affect the positions I take.


So are you saying your position changed on this matter because of the signs and omens you received?

Flavia Lucilla Merula 



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71004 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

I already answered that in my original message.  I'm an augur... what do you think?

It was my love for the gods that first brought me to Nova Roma years ago. The last thing I would want to see is the gods ridiculed. 

However I do feel that since you told us all publicly that you were "concerned with 'the public morality' of this concern", that you wanted an inquiry and that  it was "being taken seriously", then if it was signs and omens you received, as an auger that made you change your mind and  come on here rejoicing that the issue is abandoned, then I do feel we ought to have been told this.

After all with no word to the contrary from you we were still believing that you wanted an inquiry and were treating this as a serious matter of public morality.  To come on the main list and publicly state your position as a censor and augur and then not let anyone know that it had changed isn't exactly being open and honest, in fact it's entirely misleading.

I also find it strange that an officially appointed augur would not want to comment on signs and omens in case someone somewhere ridicules it.  However, since you're prepared to share with us the signs that made you choose the school you attend, I ask again can you share the signs that made you change a publicly held opinion in this matter, please.  This would be of far more import to Nova Roma than signs which only affect your private life.

Flavia lucilla Merula

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71005 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

The only time you address me is when it seems as though you are wanting to fight with me.  The omens I saw did not deal specifically with this issue (i.e., Complutensis) but rather with the conflict and fighting within Nova Roma.  The conflict and fighting needs to stop or we will stagnate and destroy ourselves.  We cannot have a pax deorum if we do not have our own peace.

Regarding Complutensis and the case of assumed identity.  I must confess that there seems to be evidence indicating his guilt.  The arguments *seem* sound.  The concerns *seem* legitimate.  However, I'm not sure there exists anyone in Nova Roma who is unbiased enough to be fully objective about the topic.  Caesar/Sulla are after Complutensis because of the Cincinnatus trial; Cato is opposed to him because of his association with Sulla.  This has become a polarizing topic in Nova Roma and that is unfortunate and will be our demise. 

We have two consules who are mostly ineffective because of this conflict.  What purpose does that serve?

If Complutensis is in fact guilty I would hope that he would eventually come clean and acknowledge his guilt.  His defense does seem unlikely, but only if the facts are truly as his opponents indicate they are.  When the "facts" are presented all I see are a bunch of numbers to which I know not the meaning.  So this becomes one political/moral mess.  And honestly I don't know what the "ethical" course of action is.  I simply do not know what the right thing to do is. 

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
 



On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae Lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

I already answered that in my original message.  I'm an augur... what do you think?

It was my love for the gods that first brought me to Nova Roma years ago. The last thing I would want to see is the gods ridiculed. 

However I do feel that since you told us all publicly that you were "concerned with 'the public morality' of this concern", that you wanted an inquiry and that  it was "being taken seriously", then if it was signs and omens you received, as an auger that made you change your mind and  come on here rejoicing that the issue is abandoned, then I do feel we ought to have been told this.

After all with no word to the contrary from you we were still believing that you wanted an inquiry and were treating this as a serious matter of public morality.  To come on the main list and publicly state your position as a censor and augur and then not let anyone know that it had changed isn't exactly being open and honest, in fact it's entirely misleading.

I also find it strange that an officially appointed augur would not want to comment on signs and omens in case someone somewhere ridicules it.  However, since you're prepared to share with us the signs that made you choose the school you attend, I ask again can you share the signs that made you change a publicly held opinion in this matter, please.  This would be of far more import to Nova Roma than signs which only affect your private life.

Flavia lucilla Merula



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71006 From: tiberiusgaleriuspaulinus Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Salvete,

I have to agree with my colleague on a number of his points:

"The conflict and fighting needs to stop or we will stagnate and destroy ourselves. We cannot have a pax deorum if we do not have our own peace."

I agree completely with this.

"Regarding Complutensis and the case of assumed identity. I must confess that there seems to be evidence indicating his guilt. The arguments *seem* sound. The concerns *seem* legitimate."

I happen to believe that the evidence is sound and that the concerns are real and legitimate but I also agree with Modianus when he says that .." I'm not sure there exists anyone in Nova Roma who is unbiased enough to be fully objective about the topic."

I do not agree that "Caesar/Sulla are after Complutensis because of the Cincinnatus trial; or that "Cato is opposed to him because of his association with Sulla." I know them to be honorable men who believes that the Consul has done a dishonorable thing.

I do agree that "This has become a polarizing topic in Nova Roma and that is unfortunate" and could contribute to our demise.

"We have two consules who are mostly ineffective because of this conflict.'

I believe that we have two ineffective Consuls because they are ineffective. One is suspect of creating a "sock puppet "and the other SEEMS to have given him cover after agreeing to bring the
issue before the Senate.

"If Complutensis is in fact guilty I would hope that he would eventually come clean and acknowledge his guilt."

One can only hope

"His defense does seem unlikely, but only if the facts are truly as his opponents indicate they are. When the" facts" are presented all I see are a bunch of numbers to which I know not the meaning. So this becomes one political/moral mess. And honestly I don't know what the "ethical" course of action is. I simply do not know what the right thing to do is.".

Again I agree but the right thing to do is for those calling for an investigate to cease calling for one and for Consul Complutensis to agree not to stand for office in this falls elections. Nobody gets what they want.

But Nova Roma may get something it deserves. Some peace and quite.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71007 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Ave Cato,

> Because we have a record of the database being accessed by Complutensis' own computer. And no, they don't have to change anything to leave a record.

How can you assume that? To hack the IP of the Complutensis' computer is not to have the Complutensis' database accesses.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71008 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Salve:

Octavius (who hosted the NR site which included the database) provided the censores with a list of who had logged into the database and accessed specific records on specific dates.

If I understand the arguments correctly what is being said is this:

An e-mail is sent by fpasquinus with the same IP address as Complutensis.
The database is accessed by Complutensis just 16 minutes prior to the e-mails sent out by fpasquinus.
Complutensis claims he is not fpasquinus, but rather that someone hacked into his computer and sent out e-mails.
Therefore, the question:  "who was it that accessed the database?" 

Was it Complutensis or was it the hacker known as fpasquinus?

If it was Complutensis then why was he looking up the records of Sulla and Cato?

If fpasquinus could hack into his computer the question I have is why?  Did he hack into his computer hoping the IP address scandal would result?  If he wanted to cause problems for Complutensis why not just send the messages with his regular e-mail address -- that would certainly cause problems?

I very much want to believe that Complutensis is NOT fpasquinus, and he has given his word that it was not him.

Is an investigation possible?  Will it show without a doubt guilt or lack of guilt?

The only thing I know for certain is that this is all frustrating.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:15 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
 

Ave Cato,



> Because we have a record of the database being accessed by Complutensis' own computer. And no, they don't have to change anything to leave a record.

How can you assume that? To hack the IP of the Complutensis' computer is not to have the Complutensis' database accesses.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71009 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
C. Petronius L. Sullæ,

> Ah, using Religion as a tool of the state. How refreshing to see that here.

Is it not irony?

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71010 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Sullae,

> I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova Roma.

As we all see, that is very useful and essential to Nova Roma.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71011 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
C. Petronius K. Modiano s.p.d.,

> If I understand the arguments correctly what is being said is this:
>
> An e-mail is sent by fpasquinus with the same IP address as Complutensis.
> The database is accessed by Complutensis just 16 minutes prior to the
> e-mails sent out by fpasquinus.

But, if I am not wrong, to logged himself at the Database Complutensis had to give a password. He was not logged by his Ip address. So if he was logged 16 minutes prior that fpasquinus sent his e-mail it is not a problem. It is more important to know if Complutensis was always logged exactly at the moment when fpasquinus sent his e-mail.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71012 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
I know you're being sarcastic, but it really isn't useful or essential.  It is disgusting that one Jew (Sulla) can call another Jew (Maior is culturally Jewish) Goebbels.  I find it neither funny or acceptable.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
 

Sullae,



> I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova Roma.

As we all see, that is very useful and essential to Nova Roma.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71013 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus C. Petronio salutem dicit

When I logged into the database (when it was hosted by Octavius) I had the username and password stored by the computer.  So anyone who used my computer and who opened the webpage containing the database would have access to the database.  Did Complutensis also have his computer set-up like this (which is common)? 

Likewise, I assume the database only records WHEN something is accessed.  I can bring up a page and keep it open well after I'm "timed out" of the log-in.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:59 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
 

C. Petronius K. Modiano s.p.d.,



> If I understand the arguments correctly what is being said is this:
>
> An e-mail is sent by fpasquinus with the same IP address as Complutensis.
> The database is accessed by Complutensis just 16 minutes prior to the
> e-mails sent out by fpasquinus.

But, if I am not wrong, to logged himself at the Database Complutensis had to give a password. He was not logged by his Ip address. So if he was logged 16 minutes prior that fpasquinus sent his e-mail it is not a problem. It is more important to know if Complutensis was always logged exactly at the moment when fpasquinus sent his e-mail.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71014 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 6:49 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Flaviae lucillae Merulae salutem dicit

The only time you address me is when it seems as though you are wanting to fight with me. 

I am sorry you feel this way. Like you, I have found this whole sorry affair extremely frustrating. However I truly thank you for your clarification here and again, I'm sorry if you felt I was trying to fight with you, that was not my intention

Flavia Lucilla Merula

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71015 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Salve Modiane;
the French have their own sense of humour and I appreciate Dexter's irony and your comment. This is simply Sulla being as disgusting as possible to drive people out of Nova Roma.
It won't happen with me: ever.

Ignore him and let's discuss Julia Aquila's Saturnalia preparations. Or signs, I had no idea about the vultures, fascinating. I respect and admire the way you live your life.
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I know you're being sarcastic, but it really isn't useful or essential. It
> is disgusting that one Jew (Sulla) can call another Jew (Maior is culturally
> Jewish) Goebbels. I find it neither funny or acceptable.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sullae,
> >
> >
> > > I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova
> > Roma.
> >
> > As we all see, that is very useful and essential to Nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71016 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Salve:

Upon looking at my comment I don't want it to be taken the wrong way.  I didn't think that Dexter's comment "isn't useful or essential" I was referring to Sulla's comment.  I felt I needed to make a firm statement rather than veiling my contempt in sarcasm. 

Thank you for your kind words.

Vale;

Modianus

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:18 PM, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:
 

Salve Modiane;
the French have their own sense of humour and I appreciate Dexter's irony and your comment. This is simply Sulla being as disgusting as possible to drive people out of Nova Roma.
It won't happen with me: ever.

Ignore him and let's discuss Julia Aquila's Saturnalia preparations. Or signs, I had no idea about the vultures, fascinating. I respect and admire the way you live your life.
Maior



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I know you're being sarcastic, but it really isn't useful or essential. It
> is disgusting that one Jew (Sulla) can call another Jew (Maior is culturally
> Jewish) Goebbels. I find it neither funny or acceptable.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71017 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: On Goebbels, propaganda and political debate
Praetor Albucius omnibus s.d.

I have well noted Cornelius Sulla Felix previous message (ML # 70995).

We could in effect think at a first time that calling "Goebbels" one of our members, who is known as linked to the Judaism, is particularly offensive.

On another hand, Dr Goebbels is probably the most (sadly) famous, all through history, figure of State propaganda. Such a reference speaks to everybody. So, if one of our members wants to tell that another is acting like the minister of propaganda of a current government, the image is probably the most accurate one. And, whatever one may think about Cornelius Sulla Felix, this Forum member, co-leader of an opposition factio, is allowed thinking that Maior acts like a minister of propaganda of the current administration, backed by the political majority. Such affirmations belong to political fight.

Last, the more every one of us put forward, in our *public* fora, her/his various opinions, religion(s), beliefs etc., the more (s)he allows possible opponents to use them against her/him in political debates.

I will however stay vigilant on this matter and invite every one to remind that both praetors will not hesitate acting if excesses are committed.

Thanks for your understanding all.

Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
praetor



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I know you're being sarcastic, but it really isn't useful or essential. It
> is disgusting that one Jew (Sulla) can call another Jew (Maior is culturally
> Jewish) Goebbels. I find it neither funny or acceptable.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sullae,
> >
> >
> > > I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova
> > Roma.
> >
> > As we all see, that is very useful and essential to Nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71018 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salve Davide;
hmm this is difficult. My Portuguese speaking friend L. Arminius Faustus {sadly inactive} is from Brasil and I had a great sound file of him, declaiming the famous Catinilarian speech with his Brasilian Portuguese accented Latin & it's beautiful.

When I joined NR, I was living in Europe so my live experience is with
Portuguese from Portugal. I knew someone from Argentina and she explained their different accent which I really liked; so different from Castilian.

As for English.When I lived in Ireland, Dubliners would say they couldn't understand Cork people, they had such thick Irish accents. English speakers from Yorkshire can be difficult too and I bet English spoken by a Texan is a challenge.

I grew up in New York City, so there isn't any kind of accent that can defeat me, lol. But I think my next language to learn will be Portuguese, then I can visit 2 continents & go to the Olympics:)
vale
Maior
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>    Hey Maior, thanks for the compliment, yeah, I also think my nativa toungue is beautiful. But to which Portuguese would you be referring to? The one spoken in Portugal or the one spoken in Brazil? I speak the one spoken in Brazil, and there's a whole big difference in accent. The way they speak it in Portugal is so different from the one we speak here, that sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what someone from Portugal is saying. It's like the English spoken in the U.S and the one spoken in England. I know that I have a hard time understanding some English people too, specially when their accent is really strong.
>   As far as whom I should mail I would like to ask to Scholastica, since you were mentioned here, if I could mail you tonight regarding the choice of my name. Thanks.
>
>                                                                                                             David
>
> --- Em qua, 7/10/09, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> escreveu:
>
> De: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Quarta-feira, 7 de Outubro de 2009, 21:12
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> A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
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>  
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>  
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> Hi "Lepus",
>
> There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
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>     ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.
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>
> To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
>
>
>
>     ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo- Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English
> welcomes all.  
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>     BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  
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>     If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  
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> I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
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>     ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate
> solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  
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> Ciao,
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> Tiberius Marci Quadra
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> Valete.  
>
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
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> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
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> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> Hi Everyone,
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>   Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
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>                                                                                             David
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> --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
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> De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
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> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
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> Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
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>    Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html>
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> the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
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> I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
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> Tiberius Marci Quadra
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> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo. com> . br>
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> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
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> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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>    
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> Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
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>   Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
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> --- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
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> De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
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> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
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> Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
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>    Salve Davide;
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>  if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
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> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
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>  Sure post it.
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> Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
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> You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
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> As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
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> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail
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> if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
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>  optime vale
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>  Maior
>
>
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> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> >
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> > Hi Maior,
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> >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
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> >
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> >                                                                                                  David
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> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
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> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
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> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
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> >                   Salvete Davide;
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> >  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
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> > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
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> > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
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> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo. com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
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> >                  optime vale
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> >                    Maior
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> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
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> > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
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> > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
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> > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
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> > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
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> > >                   Salve Davide;
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> > >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
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> > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
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> > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
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> > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
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> > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
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> > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
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> > >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
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> > >                 M. Hortensia Maior
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> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> > > > Greetings Everyone,
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> > > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
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> > > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
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> > > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
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> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71019 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
L Iulia M.Hortensiae, amica, sal,

Gratias tibi ago.
I have not forgotten about you. The statue I was trying to get for you of Bona Dea, a fine but small 6" has been discontinued but there are a couple of beautiful statues of Fauna/Bona Dea that is in the custom line - which I am working on right now, but they are already posted:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993220961/in/set-72157622235170210/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993981412/in/set-72157622235170210/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993220999/in/set-72157622235170210/

I will be posting more today - one problem I am having with the artist who does the custom work is that he does not always know the title of the sculpture he is reproducing so I will be posting some that have no title except for Roman God or Goddess - I will change them as I research or someone tells me:) but I want to get them online so cives have more of a choice.. These are very reasonably priced as he does not sculpt each one but casts them in different mediums with your choice of finish. Bona Dea, 29in, in whitewear is about $60, with a custom finish about $85, plus shipping. Fauna at 19in is about $32 whiteware or about $52 with a finish, plus shipping. Of course these are lower prices because you are NR and these statues are fairly large. The two Fauna that are posted are the same just different finishes. I think I have a smaller Fauna just have to sift through to be sure.

When do you need your Fauna/Bona Dea by? If you need it by next spring I can put it on my ever growing commission list, no promises though, and because you are Sacerdote I will only need to be compensated for materials and shipping. I'll also need images according to your vision so I can make sketches, structure armature etc. Email me and we can discuss it further:)
I do recommend you buying one of the statues already online while awaiting one of mine - because by nature I ascribe to "waiting is" - I take an awful long time and those custom statues are truly nice.

By the way, glad you are feeling better, I am also, I am just taking today off to be sure and staying away from others - highly peppered broth with shitake mushrooms , vit C,Enchincea, B complex and a few other vitamins and cures and I kept the bug down to a mere inconvenience rather than a full blown illness.

Cura ut valeas,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> M. Hortensia L. Juliae spd;
> they are wonderful Julia! I had no idea what a talented artist you are. I would imaging the little clay figures would be rustic, that's the charm so melty Ops is perfect:)
> hmm I'm very keen to have Fauna/Bona Dea...
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila Omnibus sal
> >
> > I posted some images of clay figurines from ancient Rome if anyone would like to use them as inspiration for Saturnalia, or other, figurines:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622539874414/
> > Here are Saturnus and Ops figurines for the Saturnalia centerpiece I made as examples for the Saturnalia committee here in Nashville:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622415439159/
> > I made Ops in about six hours and Saturnus took 14, mainly because I worked on the details of his head quite a bit more – normally a project like this takes me a few months and so the details suffered, the phi is off some (arms too long for example) – I'm also not used to using this type of clay for such small projects. However clay figurines for Saturnalia can be a family affair, making them rather than buying, and so they are generally more rustic. I am going to make smaller, less detailed ones, and let the children paint them I think. I also have some traditional clay that will air dry and may make a couple of figures in the style of one of the images. I doubt I will glaze anything.
> > Once the clay matures a bit I'll sand down the some of the edges if I have the time and maybe repair and refine some details – but probably not ;). Working on Saturnus' head did make me order a magnifying glass on a stand for detail work so I do not go blind should I do more close work like this in the future.
> > The armature and supports I had are actually for bigger projects and the clay is different than traditional clay and in humid conditions it is almost too soft to work with. Ops suffered the worst, it was extremely humid and about 75 degrees the day I worked on her and the clay became a bit too warm and soft so it was like working on ever shifting chiaroscuro – like most women she was prone to gravity – besides looking a bit Asian and the cornucopia collapsed a little. Because of the soft condition of the clay, and partly because I was going blind from the close work, Saturnus hands and feet are not very finely detailed and a bit big – he needed the big feet to help him stand, there was a little shifting during the drying phase *laughs* not to mention the wooden stick in his butt to help support him – which I removed after "ovening".
> > I didn't have enough red for the Saturnus' cloak so I had to mix in a red pearl color and so – it shines more than I would have liked. I suppose it will be festive.
> > Saturnus and Ops will be surrounded by foliage, fruits and veggies, sweets and various decorations, candles, oil lamps (et fire extinguisher) and what is growing into an incredible menu of food. We have an entire home rented here in Nashville TN for the evening, 7 rooms, 3 BR, and a theater in the finished basement so we can handle a large crowd – so if any of you have December 19th free you are invited to come and join us. If you are interested here is a link for more info:
> > http://www.meetup.com/Temple-Of-Venus/calendar/11150355/
> >
> > Bene valéte in pacem deorum
> >
> > Julia
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71020 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics
Gaius Petronius Dexter Caesoni Fabio Buteoni Modiano salutem dicit,

> When I logged into the database (when it was hosted by Octavius) I had the username and password stored by the computer.

I do not that. I do not hit the question "Do you want Windows remember your password" and I type my usernames and my passwords each time I log. So it was that I do when I log the database when I cure the citizen applications, each time I put my login and my password. And I do the same when I log the website, if I want to change a wiki page I have to log in. The list of my logins and passwords is not in my computer but in my black notebook or/and in my memory.

It is a single way to be sure nobody using my computer can log him in place of me with my usernames and passwords.

Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71021 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
L. Iulia C. Petronio, amice, sal.,

Gratias tibi ago. Now I am not entirely sure how to take your statement, on one hand I am laughing but on the other I do have a Neptunus/Portunus riding a dolphin/horse creature for sale:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3994325338/in/set-72157622074726511/

However - in my mind Portunus is a young male, an older boy, riding on a dolphin similar to what I have seen in ancient art. I will extend a smiliar offer to you that I made to Maior and I can put the request on my ever growing commission list, no promises though when it will be ready, and because you are Flamen I will only need to be compensated for materials and shipping. I'll also need images according to your vision so I can make sketches, structure armature etc. As i mentioned to Maior(who is Flaminica), email me and we can discuss it further:)

I also put posted a couple of Fortunas:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3994351614/in/set-72157622074726511/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3994351642/in/set-72157622074726511/
Novi Romani get a better price than the one posted.

Cura ut valeas...

Julia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius L. Juliae s.p.d.,
>
> Impressive and charming... I am waiting for a sweety Portunus riding a dolphin.
>
> "Qualis artifex nasceris."
>
> Optime vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71022 From: rory12001 Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Roman Clay Figurines:Ancient and New Saturnus and Ops
M. Hortensia L. Juliae optimae suae spd;
oh thank you amica, I would love for you to sculpt me Bona Dea, that would be so meaningful, personal and great.

Next spring is fine. If I am able to hold a December festivity I have a scan of the cult statue so I can copy it and put it up. And will purchase one of the statues, a very well-priced selection too, that's very helpful. And dead cheap for our cultores on the euro:)

I am tip-top, nothing like old Judaean chicken soup recipe, but I'm going to try yours & the vitamin combo too. Since it sounded like you had the flu I am impressed. I just had the beginnings of a cold.
hehe surely the gods love us!
Bona Dea is also the healing goddess!
vale carissime amica
Maior





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> L Iulia M.Hortensiae, amica, sal,
>
> Gratias tibi ago.
> I have not forgotten about you. The statue I was trying to get for you of Bona Dea, a fine but small 6" has been discontinued but there are a couple of beautiful statues of Fauna/Bona Dea that is in the custom line - which I am working on right now, but they are already posted:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993220961/in/set-72157622235170210/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993981412/in/set-72157622235170210/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/3993220999/in/set-72157622235170210/
>
> I will be posting more today - one problem I am having with the artist who does the custom work is that he does not always know the title of the sculpture he is reproducing so I will be posting some that have no title except for Roman God or Goddess - I will change them as I research or someone tells me:) but I want to get them online so cives have more of a choice.. These are very reasonably priced as he does not sculpt each one but casts them in different mediums with your choice of finish. Bona Dea, 29in, in whitewear is about $60, with a custom finish about $85, plus shipping. Fauna at 19in is about $32 whiteware or about $52 with a finish, plus shipping. Of course these are lower prices because you are NR and these statues are fairly large. The two Fauna that are posted are the same just different finishes. I think I have a smaller Fauna just have to sift through to be sure.
>
> When do you need your Fauna/Bona Dea by? If you need it by next spring I can put it on my ever growing commission list, no promises though, and because you are Sacerdote I will only need to be compensated for materials and shipping. I'll also need images according to your vision so I can make sketches, structure armature etc. Email me and we can discuss it further:)
> I do recommend you buying one of the statues already online while awaiting one of mine - because by nature I ascribe to "waiting is" - I take an awful long time and those custom statues are truly nice.
>
> By the way, glad you are feeling better, I am also, I am just taking today off to be sure and staying away from others - highly peppered broth with shitake mushrooms , vit C,Enchincea, B complex and a few other vitamins and cures and I kept the bug down to a mere inconvenience rather than a full blown illness.
>
> Cura ut valeas,
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > M. Hortensia L. Juliae spd;
> > they are wonderful Julia! I had no idea what a talented artist you are. I would imaging the little clay figures would be rustic, that's the charm so melty Ops is perfect:)
> > hmm I'm very keen to have Fauna/Bona Dea...
> > optime vale
> > Maior
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> > >
> > > L. Iulia Aquila Omnibus sal
> > >
> > > I posted some images of clay figurines from ancient Rome if anyone would like to use them as inspiration for Saturnalia, or other, figurines:
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622539874414/
> > > Here are Saturnus and Ops figurines for the Saturnalia centerpiece I made as examples for the Saturnalia committee here in Nashville:
> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/sets/72157622415439159/
> > > I made Ops in about six hours and Saturnus took 14, mainly because I worked on the details of his head quite a bit more – normally a project like this takes me a few months and so the details suffered, the phi is off some (arms too long for example) – I'm also not used to using this type of clay for such small projects. However clay figurines for Saturnalia can be a family affair, making them rather than buying, and so they are generally more rustic. I am going to make smaller, less detailed ones, and let the children paint them I think. I also have some traditional clay that will air dry and may make a couple of figures in the style of one of the images. I doubt I will glaze anything.
> > > Once the clay matures a bit I'll sand down the some of the edges if I have the time and maybe repair and refine some details – but probably not ;). Working on Saturnus' head did make me order a magnifying glass on a stand for detail work so I do not go blind should I do more close work like this in the future.
> > > The armature and supports I had are actually for bigger projects and the clay is different than traditional clay and in humid conditions it is almost too soft to work with. Ops suffered the worst, it was extremely humid and about 75 degrees the day I worked on her and the clay became a bit too warm and soft so it was like working on ever shifting chiaroscuro – like most women she was prone to gravity – besides looking a bit Asian and the cornucopia collapsed a little. Because of the soft condition of the clay, and partly because I was going blind from the close work, Saturnus hands and feet are not very finely detailed and a bit big – he needed the big feet to help him stand, there was a little shifting during the drying phase *laughs* not to mention the wooden stick in his butt to help support him – which I removed after "ovening".
> > > I didn't have enough red for the Saturnus' cloak so I had to mix in a red pearl color and so – it shines more than I would have liked. I suppose it will be festive.
> > > Saturnus and Ops will be surrounded by foliage, fruits and veggies, sweets and various decorations, candles, oil lamps (et fire extinguisher) and what is growing into an incredible menu of food. We have an entire home rented here in Nashville TN for the evening, 7 rooms, 3 BR, and a theater in the finished basement so we can handle a large crowd – so if any of you have December 19th free you are invited to come and join us. If you are interested here is a link for more info:
> > > http://www.meetup.com/Temple-Of-Venus/calendar/11150355/
> > >
> > > Bene valéte in pacem deorum
> > >
> > > Julia
> > >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71023 From: Steve Moore Date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: Ethics

Potitus Modiano SPD.

 

Let me repeat what I have proposed both in private to Consul Severus and in public here: It is clear that it would be almost impossible to find an unbiased individual to lead an investigation into this matter. I certainly do not claim to be unbiased (obviously). There is an alternative. I propose that an investigation be set up, with a strict mandate and clear protocol, lead by *two* investigators who have clearly opposing viewpoints. The two opposing viewpoints would ensure that the investigation is as unbiased as possible.

 

I offered my time to the Consul (and now my money) to serve as one of these investigators.

 

This investigation would not be a trial, and the investigators would not be judges. The purpose of the investigation would be to establish the facts of the matter, as well as to consider circumstantial evidence. Based on the results of the investigation, the appropriate magistrates would be able to make informed decisions about any disciplinary action or penalty.

 

Furthermore, I told the Consul and the Main List that this investigation should be transparent—openly available to all interested citizens. To accomplish this, I propose publishing the daily transactions of the investigators on the Comitia Centuriata list, where the only people who will see it are those who are interested. This will free up the Main List, while creating transparency.

 

Vale.

 

 


From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Kling
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 7:02 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics

 

 

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit

You claim to want to "lead an investigation," but you have already convicted Complutensis.

You can claim unethical behavior all you wish, but that doesn't make it so.  If he is guilty it means his behavior was of a nature that you don't like.  It is not necessarily unethical, not high virtue either but not necessarily unethical.  I find contacting the Maine Attorney General far more un-ethical by our own standards than having a "sockpuppet" (although I am not convinced of his guilt, nor am I adding credence to such an idea).

Continued dialogue on this subject is unfruitful.  You are set in your ways.  You refuse to define what YOU mean by ethical, and you continue in your aggressive stance.  I don't see this benefiting Nova Roma.

Vale;

Modianus

.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71024 From: lathyrus77 Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Ethics
Why don't you just hire a PI, and get it over with? Why must you have some sort of "approval"?

-Anna

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Moore" <astrobear@...> wrote:
>
> Potitus Modiano SPD.
>
>
>
> Let me repeat what I have proposed both in private to Consul Severus and in
> public here: It is clear that it would be almost impossible to find an
> unbiased individual to lead an investigation into this matter. I certainly
> do not claim to be unbiased (obviously). There is an alternative. I propose
> that an investigation be set up, with a strict mandate and clear protocol,
> lead by *two* investigators who have clearly opposing viewpoints. The two
> opposing viewpoints would ensure that the investigation is as unbiased as
> possible.
>
>
>
> I offered my time to the Consul (and now my money) to serve as one of these
> investigators.
>
>
>
> This investigation would not be a trial, and the investigators would not be
> judges. The purpose of the investigation would be to establish the facts of
> the matter, as well as to consider circumstantial evidence. Based on the
> results of the investigation, the appropriate magistrates would be able to
> make informed decisions about any disciplinary action or penalty.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, I told the Consul and the Main List that this investigation
> should be transparent-openly available to all interested citizens. To
> accomplish this, I propose publishing the daily transactions of the
> investigators on the Comitia Centuriata list, where the only people who will
> see it are those who are interested. This will free up the Main List, while
> creating transparency.
>
>
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of David Kling
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 7:02 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
>
>
>
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Potito salutem dicit
>
> You claim to want to "lead an investigation," but you have already convicted
> Complutensis.
>
> You can claim unethical behavior all you wish, but that doesn't make it so.
> If he is guilty it means his behavior was of a nature that you don't like.
> It is not necessarily unethical, not high virtue either but not necessarily
> unethical. I find contacting the Maine Attorney General far more un-ethical
> by our own standards than having a "sockpuppet" (although I am not convinced
> of his guilt, nor am I adding credence to such an idea).
>
> Continued dialogue on this subject is unfruitful. You are set in your ways.
> You refuse to define what YOU mean by ethical, and you continue in your
> aggressive stance. I don't see this benefiting Nova Roma.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> .
>
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=6288039/grpspId=1705313712/msgId
> =70998/stime=1255010511/nc1=3848621/nc2=5741392/nc3=5191952>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71025 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please stop this stupid fights?
Salvete omnes,

Before all, this is just a personal thought, nothing more!

It seems to me that a lot of participants here on the main list really enjoy the verbal battles
who said what and who did what and who should be banned etc.
I presume that some of you have not enough stress in offline life!

Why not use all this energy to constructively discuss subjects which might bring NR a little bit further. Which would make it a little more Roman for a change?

I think you all see, that all what is written here is not really attracting many interested people out there!
Rome appeared pretty united to the outside, if our ancestors would have displayed as much division as it is displayed here some times, I bet, we all would not be here!

I appeal to everybody, be a little bit more constructive for a change and let go some of these rather childish skirmishes.

It does not fit NR so much. Some people might think this is a therapeutic stress relief forum and not about Roman Culture, I hope you are aware of that.

Why not use the BA for such steam valving and keep on creating here on the list?

Well everybody who wants, is now welcome to start attacking, Smile!

Optime vale everyone!

C. AQVILLIVS ROTA 





--- On Thu, 10/8/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

From: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Maior and the BA
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 5:54 AM

 

Pauline, I posted my reasons a couple of days ago, 70686# in repsonse to Cato. But I'll repost it again. And continue on to more pleasant topics.

Post 70686
Salve;
I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off
the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.

It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am
glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?

When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?

when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?

when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... > wrote:
>
>
> Salve Maior,
>
>
>
> The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
>
>
>
> You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: rory12001@.. .
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Annae;
> stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ > wrote:
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
> >
> > > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
> >
> > Nice and Roman response.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71026 From: Aqvillivs Rota Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please show Unity not Division!
Salvete omnes,

Before all, this is just a personal thought, nothing more!

It seems to me that a lot of participants here on the main list really enjoy the verbal battles
who said what and who did what and who should be banned etc.
I presume that some of you have not enough stress in offline life!

Why not use all this energy to constructively discuss subjects which might bring NR a little bit further. Which would make it a little more Roman for a change?

I think you all see, that all what is written here is not really attracting many interested people out there!
Rome appeared pretty united to the outside, if our ancestors would have displayed as much division as it is displayed here some times, I bet, we all would not be here!

I appeal to everybody, be a little bit more constructive for a change and let go some of these rather childish skirmishes.

It does not fit NR so much. Some people might think this is a therapeutic stress relief forum and not about Roman Culture, I hope you are aware of that.

Why not use the BA for such steam valving and keep on creating here on the list?

Well everybody who wants, is now welcome to start attacking, Smile!

Optime vale everyone!

C. AQVILLIVS ROTA 

--- On Fri, 10/9/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma]Please stop this stupid fights?
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 5:37 AM

 

Salvete omnes,

Before all, this is just a personal thought, nothing more!

It seems to me that a lot of participants here on the main list really enjoy the verbal battles
who said what and who did what and who should be banned etc.
I presume that some of you have not enough stress in offline life!

Why not use all this energy to constructively discuss subjects which might bring NR a little bit further. Which would make it a little more Roman for a change?

I think you all see, that all what is written here is not really attracting many interested people out there!
Rome appeared pretty united to the outside, if our ancestors would have displayed as much division as it is displayed here some times, I bet, we all would not be here!

I appeal to everybody, be a little bit more constructive for a change and let go some of these rather childish skirmishes.

It does not fit NR so much. Some people might think this is a therapeutic stress relief forum and not about Roman Culture, I hope you are aware of that.

Why not use the BA for such steam valving and keep on creating here on the list?

Well everybody who wants, is now welcome to start attacking, Smile!

Optime vale everyone!

C. AQVILLIVS ROTA 





--- On Thu, 10/8/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Maior and the BA
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 5:54 AM

 

Pauline, I posted my reasons a couple of days ago, 70686# in repsonse to Cato. But I'll repost it again. And continue on to more pleasant topics.

Post 70686
Salve;
I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off
the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.

It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am
glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?

When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?

when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?

when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... > wrote:
>
>
> Salve Maior,
>
>
>
> The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
>
>
>
> You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
>
>
>
> You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> From: rory12001@.. .
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Annae;
> stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ > wrote:
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
> >
> > > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
> >
> > Nice and Roman response.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71027 From: Nero Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Please show Unity not Division!
Salve,
If I may make a suggestion?
It seems to me from my months here that when we start arguments it's from boredom, usually before a big fight there's nothing on the boards.
For a solution I think that every day someone should post a few things:
1. Daily herbology like we had with the rosemary a few weeks back.
2. The daily on this day in Ancient Rome thread we had. I see Cato posting it most days of the week but people should participate, if you notice that someone forgot to add the coronation of Nero add it:)
3. Placing a daily recipe thread up and if you can think of a way to make it better then throw it in.
4. I have a deep interest in medicine(Working on being a trauma surgeon) maybe a daily Roman first aid? Acne? How would the ancients have handled it?
I would volunteer myself to write these but the nights I am at my boyfriends I have no access to my account.
Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant
Nero

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Before all, this is just a personal thought, nothing more!
>
> It seems to me that a lot of participants here on the main list really enjoy the verbal battles
> who said what and who did what and who should be banned etc.
> I presume that some of you have not enough stress in offline life!
>
> Why
> not use all this energy to constructively discuss subjects which might
> bring NR a little bit further. Which would make it a little more Roman
> for a change?
>
> I think you all see, that all what is written here is not really attracting many interested people out there!
> Rome
> appeared pretty united to the outside, if our ancestors would have
> displayed as much division as it is displayed here some times, I bet,
> we all would not be here!
>
> I appeal to everybody, be a little bit more constructive for a change and let go some of
> these rather childish skirmishes.
>
> It
> does not fit NR so much. Some people might think this is a therapeutic
> stress relief forum and not about Roman Culture, I hope you are aware
> of that.
>
> Why not use the BA for such steam valving and keep on creating here on the list?
>
> Well everybody who wants, is now welcome to start attacking, Smile!
>
> Optime vale everyone!
>
> C. AQVILLIVS ROTA 
>
> --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:
>
> From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma]Please stop this stupid fights?
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 5:37 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Before all, this is just a personal thought, nothing more!
>
> It seems to me that a lot of participants here on the main list really enjoy the verbal battles
> who said what and who did what and who should be banned etc.
> I presume that some of you have not enough stress in offline life!
>
> Why not use all this energy to constructively discuss subjects which might bring NR a little bit further. Which would make it a little more Roman for a change?
>
> I think you all see, that all what is written here is not really attracting many interested people out there!
> Rome appeared pretty united to the outside, if our ancestors would have displayed as much division as it is displayed here some times, I bet, we all would not be here!
>
> I appeal to everybody, be a little bit more constructive for a change and let go some of
> these rather childish skirmishes.
>
> It does not fit NR so much. Some people might think this is a therapeutic stress relief forum and not about Roman Culture, I hope you are aware of that.
>
> Why not use the BA for such steam valving and keep on creating here on the list?
>
> Well everybody who wants, is now welcome to start attacking, Smile!
>
> Optime vale everyone!
>
> C. AQVILLIVS ROTA 
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 10/8/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> From: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Maior and the BA
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 5:54 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> Pauline, I posted my reasons a couple of days ago, 70686# in repsonse to Cato. But I'll repost it again. And continue on to more pleasant topics.
>
>
>
> Post 70686
>
> Salve;
>
> I was there to present another perspective to new people whom you recruit off
>
> the Main List. I wanted them to see the other side's pov.
>
>
>
> It was unpleasant, really horrid, but I thought it was my duty. And yes I am
>
> glad to be gone. But who will report on your double faces?
>
>
>
> When you support the religio publically but mock it behind everyone's back?
>
>
>
> when Graecus shows respect to Regulus on the ML but denigrates him on the BA?
>
>
>
> when Sulla says here the BA is a fun friendly place and calls me Goebbels.
>
> Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@ > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve Maior,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The BA is a list that one joins. No one in NR or anywhere else on this planet is required to join or to stay a member.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You first joined the BA on Aug 18, 2003 and remained a member until Sep 5, 2009 when you were removed by the moderators for violating the rules.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You then rejoined the group on Sep 16, 2009 until Sept 30, 2009 when you were banned for again violating the rules.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You were a member for over six years. You could have quit at any time but choose not to. One has to wonder why?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Vale
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > From: rory12001@ .
>
> > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:11:21 +0000
>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ethics
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve Annae;
>
> > stay true to yourself and your honour. Frankly it's great away from the BA.
>
> > optime vale
>
> > Maior
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@ > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > C. Petronius Annæ s.p.d.,
>
> > >
>
> > > > When I've done something that requires an apology I will apologize. Till then you will never get a false apology from me.
>
> > >
>
> > > Nice and Roman response.
>
> > >
>
> > > Vale.
>
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
>
> > >
>
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71028 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VII Idus Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

"When the envoys had withdrawn, the senate proceeded to discuss the
question. Many of the members realised how the largest and richest
city in Italy, with a very productive country near the sea, could
become the granary of Rome, and supply every variety of provision.
Notwithstanding, however, loyalty to treaties outweighed even these
great advantages, and the consul was authorised by the senate to give
the following reply: "The senate is of opinion, Campanians, that you
are worthy of our aid, but justice demands that friendship with you
shall be established on such a footing that no older friendship and
alliance is thereby impaired. Therefore we refuse to employ on your
behalf against the Samnites arms which would offend the gods sooner
than they injured men. We shall, as is just and right, send an embassy
to our allies and friends to ask that no hostile violence be offered
you." Thereupon the leader of the embassy, acting according to the
instructions they had brought with them, said: "Even though you are
not willing to make a just use of force against brute force and
injustice in defence of what belongs to us, you will at all events
defend what belongs to you. Wherefore we now place under your sway and
jurisdiction, senators, and that of the Roman people, the people of
Campania and the city of Capua, its fields, its sacred temples, all
things human and divine. Henceforth we are prepared to suffer what we
may have to suffer as men who have surrendered themselves into your
hands." At these words they all burst into tears and stretching out
their hands towards the consul they prostrated themselves on the floor
of the vestibule.

The senators were deeply moved by this instance of the vicissitudes of
human fortune, where a people abounding in wealth, famous for their
pride and luxuriousness, and from whom, shortly before, their
neighbours had sought assistance, were now so broken in spirit that
they put themselves and all that belonged to them under the power and
authority of others. It at once became a matter of honour that men who
had formally surrendered themselves should not be left to their fate,
and it was resolved "that the Samnite nation would commit a wrongful
act if they attacked a city and territory which had by surrender
become the possession of Rome." They determined to lose no time in
despatching envoys to the Samnites. Their instructions were to lay
before them the request of the Campanians, the reply which the senate,
mindful of their friendly relations with the Samnites, had given, and
lastly the surrender which had been made. They were to request the
Samnites, in virtue of the friendship and alliance which existed
between them, to spare those who had made a surrender of themselves
and to take no hostile action against that territory which had become
the possession of the Roman people. If these mild remonstrances proved
ineffective, they were to solemnly warn the Samnites in the name of
the senate and people of Rome to keep their hands off the city of
Capua and the territory of Campania. The envoys delivered their
instructions in the national council of Samnium. The reply they
received was couched in such defiant terms that not only did the
Samnites declare their intention of pursuing the war against Capua,
but their magistrates went outside the council chamber and, in tones
loud enough for the envoys to hear, ordered the prefects of cohorts to
march at once into the Campanian territory and ravage it." - Livy,
History of Rome 7.31


Today is dedicated to the goddess Felicitas. Felicitas is the Roman
goddess of good luck, to whom a temple was first built in the mid-2nd
century B.C. She became the special protector of successful
commanders. Caesar planned to erect another temple to her, and it was
built by the triumvir M. Aemilius Lepidus. The emperors made her
prominent as symbolizing the blessings of the imperial regime.
Felicitas is usually holding a caduceus and a cornucopia, symbols of
health and wealth.

109 Felicitas is a dark and fairly large main belt asteroid,
discovered by C. H. F. Peters on October 9, 1869 and named after the
goddess.


"I built the following structures: The Senate House, and the
Chalcidicum (Records Office) adjoining it; the Temple of Apollo on the
Palatine Hill, with its porticoes..." - Augustus, "Works of Augustus"
19 (A.D.13)

On this day in 28 B,C., Augustus dedicated the Temple of Apollo.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71029 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Latin Phrase of the Day
Salvete,
 
Lares et penates - Household gods
 
Valete
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71030 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Three new books on Rome
Salvete
 
I have just received in the mail my newest books on Rome.  The are The Inheritance of Rome by Chris Wickham and is a reassessment of the "Dark Ages". The other two book are both by Philip Matyszak.  The Classical Compendium and
Legionary: The Roman Soldiers UNoffical manual.
 
 
The last two look like they will be very good source books.  In the Compendium we fine a number of lists and such.
 
Here is one:
 
Life expectancy in Greece and Rome:
 
At birth: 25 years
At 10:    41 years
At 20:    54 years
At 30:    59 years
At 40:    63 years
At 50:    67 years
At 60:    70 years
At 70:    76 years
 
Valete,
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71031 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
 Salve Maior and Everyone Here,

   I chose my Roman name and I mailed rogatrix Scholastica. She said my name choice was fine, so I guess I'll be know now as Marcus Iulius Cicurinus.
   Maior, it's cool to know you've been to so many places. Accents are really funny, I did theater for a while when I lived in the U.S, and I had an excellent drama teacher who could do all kinds of accent - from an Italian mafia guy to a New York accent to Irishman to English with a German accent, etc. A really talented teacher. The Texas accent would not be difficult for me since I was living in the south and in my last years in the U.S I was beggining to develop a Southern accent myself. And if you ever stand between a Brazilian and a Portuguese talking you'll surely be able to notice the difference. I'm not an expert in dialects, accents, and languages but to me the Portuguese spoken in Potugal seems more ... accented (for lack of terms), they seem to place emphasis on qu's and r's and st's, I guess I would say the one from Brazil sounds more smooth going, I don't know. Hey, if you go to the Olympics maybe we'll see each other. I'll definately be there!!!

                                                                                  Vale,
                                                                                      M. Iulius Cicurinus
                     

 

  

  

--- Em qui, 8/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:

De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Quinta-feira, 8 de Outubro de 2009, 22:42

 

Salve Davide;
hmm this is difficult. My Portuguese speaking friend L. Arminius Faustus {sadly inactive} is from Brasil and I had a great sound file of him, declaiming the famous Catinilarian speech with his Brasilian Portuguese accented Latin & it's beautiful.

When I joined NR, I was living in Europe so my live experience is with
Portuguese from Portugal. I knew someone from Argentina and she explained their different accent which I really liked; so different from Castilian.

As for English.When I lived in Ireland, Dubliners would say they couldn't understand Cork people, they had such thick Irish accents. English speakers from Yorkshire can be difficult too and I bet English spoken by a Texan is a challenge.

I grew up in New York City, so there isn't any kind of accent that can defeat me, lol. But I think my next language to learn will be Portuguese, then I can visit 2 continents & go to the Olympics:)
vale
Maior
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>    Hey Maior, thanks for the compliment, yeah, I also think my nativa toungue is beautiful. But to which Portuguese would you be referring to? The one spoken in Portugal or the one spoken in Brazil? I speak the one spoken in Brazil, and there's a whole big difference in accent. The way they speak it in Portugal is so different from the one we speak here, that sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what someone from Portugal is saying. It's like the English spoken in the U.S and the one spoken in England. I know that I have a hard time understanding some English people too, specially when their accent is really strong.
>   As far as whom I should mail I would like to ask to Scholastica, since you were mentioned here, if I could mail you tonight regarding the choice of my name. Thanks.
>
>                                                                                                             David
>
> --- Em qua, 7/10/09, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@... > escreveu:
>
> De: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@... >
> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Quarta-feira, 7 de Outubro de 2009, 21:12
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi "Lepus",
>
> There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
>
>
>
>     ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.
>
>
>
> To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
>
>
>
>     ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo- Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English
> welcomes all.  
>
>
>
>     BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  
>
>
>
>     If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  
>
>
>
> I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
>
>
>
>     ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate
> solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  
>
>
>
> Ciao,
>
> Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
>
>
> Valete.  
>
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
>
>
>   
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
>
>
>   Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
>
>
>
>                                                                                             David
>
>
>
> --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
>
>
> De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
>
> Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
>
> Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
>
>
>
>    Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html>
>
> the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
>
>
>
> I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
>
> Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
> From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo. com> . br>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
>
>
>    
>
> Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
>
>
>
>   Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
>
>
>
> --- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
>
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
>
> Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
>
>
>
>    Salve Davide;
>
>  if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
>
>
>
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
>  Sure post it.
>
>
>
> Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
>
>
>
> You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
>
>
>
> As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
>
> http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail
>
>
>
> if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
>
>  optime vale
>
>  Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi Maior,
>
> >
>
> >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> >                                                                                                  David
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >        
>
> >
>
> > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     
>
> >                   Salvete Davide;
>
> >
>
> >  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo. com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
>
> >
>
> >                  optime vale
>
> >
>
> >                    Maior
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> >
>
> > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> >
>
> > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >                   Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >                 M. Hortensia Maior
>
> >
>
>  
>
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
>  >
>
> >
>
> > > > Greetings Everyone,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > >                                                       David
>
> >
>
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71032 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Neptunus Has Arrived!
Salve Cato,

You now officially own a collector's item. There will be no more Neptunus statues like yours made and by this time next year I may not be able to procure one even for a higher price although offline Museum shops may still have one left and which would carry a price tag of over $150. Although they are still being advertised online when one enquires if they have it, they will reply it has been discontinued. I know I have three orders I can't fill with this particular statue at the usual price.
Just thought you might want to know you made a good investment;)
May it bring you good fortune,

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gequitiuscato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> My thanks to Iulia Aquila; I received today a glorious statue of Neptunus that I am going to be putting in my apartment. He is keeping an eye on the office at work now :)
>
> Valete!
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71033 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salve!

Welcome Cousin! I apologize for not responding to your email as i have been a bit under the weather but I am very pleased to see you have joined our Gens, hopefully our discussion on Venus Genetrix was in part an influence on your decision:)

Vale optime!

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Alan <david.alan99@...> wrote:
>
>  Salve Maior and Everyone Here,
>
>    I chose my Roman name and I mailed rogatrix Scholastica. She said my name choice was fine, so I guess I'll be know now as Marcus Iulius Cicurinus.
>    Maior, it's cool to know you've been to so many places. Accents are really funny, I did theater for a while when I lived in the U.S, and I had an excellent drama teacher who could do all kinds of accent - from an Italian mafia guy to a New York accent to Irishman to English with a German accent, etc. A really talented teacher. The Texas accent would not be difficult for me since I was living in the south and in my last years in the U.S I was beggining to develop a Southern accent myself. And if you ever stand between a Brazilian and a Portuguese talking you'll surely be able to notice the difference. I'm not an expert in dialects, accents, and languages but to me the Portuguese spoken in Potugal seems more ... accented (for lack of terms), they seem to place emphasis on qu's and r's and st's, I guess I would say the one from Brazil sounds more smooth going, I don't know. Hey, if you go to the Olympics maybe we'll see each other. I'll definately be
> there!!!
>
>                                                                                   Vale,
>                                                                                       M. Iulius Cicurinus
>                      
>
>  
>
>   
>
>   
>
> --- Em qui, 8/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@...> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@...>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Quinta-feira, 8 de Outubro de 2009, 22:42
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Salve Davide;
>
> hmm this is difficult. My Portuguese speaking friend L. Arminius Faustus {sadly inactive} is from Brasil and I had a great sound file of him, declaiming the famous Catinilarian speech with his Brasilian Portuguese accented Latin & it's beautiful.
>
>
>
> When I joined NR, I was living in Europe so my live experience is with
>
> Portuguese from Portugal. I knew someone from Argentina and she explained their different accent which I really liked; so different from Castilian.
>
>
>
> As for English.When I lived in Ireland, Dubliners would say they couldn't understand Cork people, they had such thick Irish accents. English speakers from Yorkshire can be difficult too and I bet English spoken by a Texan is a challenge.
>
>
>
> I grew up in New York City, so there isn't any kind of accent that can defeat me, lol. But I think my next language to learn will be Portuguese, then I can visit 2 continents & go to the Olympics:)
>
> vale
>
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi Everyone,
>
> >
>
> >    Hey Maior, thanks for the compliment, yeah, I also think my nativa toungue is beautiful. But to which Portuguese would you be referring to? The one spoken in Portugal or the one spoken in Brazil? I speak the one spoken in Brazil, and there's a whole big difference in accent. The way they speak it in Portugal is so different from the one we speak here, that sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what someone from Portugal is saying. It's like the English spoken in the U.S and the one spoken in England. I know that I have a hard time understanding some English people too, specially when their accent is really strong.
>
> >   As far as whom I should mail I would like to ask to Scholastica, since you were mentioned here, if I could mail you tonight regarding the choice of my name. Thanks.
>
> >
>
> >                                                                                                             David
>
> >
>
> > --- Em qua, 7/10/09, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@ > escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > De: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@ >
>
> > Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> > Data: Quarta-feira, 7 de Outubro de 2009, 21:12
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
> >
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> >
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> >
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi "Lepus",
>
> >
>
> > There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo- Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English
>
> > welcomes all.  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate
>
> > solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ciao,
>
> >
>
> > Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Valete.  
>
> >
>
> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
>
> >
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> >
>
> > Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
>
> >
>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi Everyone,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >                                                                                             David
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
>
> >
>
> > Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
>
> >
>
> > Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >    Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html>
>
> >
>
> > the Latin word for rabbit is LEPUS.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
>
> >
>
> > Tiberius Marci Quadra
>
> >
>
> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo. com> . br>
>
> >
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> >
>
> > Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
>
> >
>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >    
>
> >
>
> > Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
>
> >
>
> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
>
> >
>
> > Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >    Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> >  if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> >  Sure post it.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
>
> >
>
> >  optime vale
>
> >
>
> >  Maior
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Hi Maior,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >                                                                                                  David
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >        
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> >
>
> > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> >
>
> > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >     
>
> >
>
> > >                   Salvete Davide;
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo. com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >                  optime vale
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >                    Maior
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
>
> >
>
> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >                   Salve Davide;
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >                 M. Hortensia Maior
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >  >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > Greetings Everyone,
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > >                                                       David
>
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>
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
>
> > http://br.maisbusca dos.yahoo. com
>
> >
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> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71034 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Hi Julia,

   Thanks for your welcome. No problem about not replying, I'll wait. And thanks for inviting me into the Iulia Gens, yes our conversation about the Goddess did influence my decission. I just want to take this time to say that I just loooooooooooved your sculptures. I haven't heard about this Ops goddess before. I'll have to do some search on her later. I used to model a lot too when I was a kid, I loooove modeling. But I can't model with so much detail like you can. If you don't mind me asking what kind of clay do you use exactly? The only ones we got in my town are those cheap clay that dry quickly. I can't make much detailed figurines like yours, and mine come with the body a little flat xD.
  

--- Em sex, 9/10/09, luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...> escreveu:

De: luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sexta-feira, 9 de Outubro de 2009, 16:31

 

Salve!

Welcome Cousin! I apologize for not responding to your email as i have been a bit under the weather but I am very pleased to see you have joined our Gens, hopefully our discussion on Venus Genetrix was in part an influence on your decision:)

Vale optime!

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
>
>  Salve Maior and Everyone Here,
>
>    I chose my Roman name and I mailed rogatrix Scholastica. She said my name choice was fine, so I guess I'll be know now as Marcus Iulius Cicurinus.
>    Maior, it's cool to know you've been to so many places. Accents are really funny, I did theater for a while when I lived in the U.S, and I had an excellent drama teacher who could do all kinds of accent - from an Italian mafia guy to a New York accent to Irishman to English with a German accent, etc. A really talented teacher. The Texas accent would not be difficult for me since I was living in the south and in my last years in the U.S I was beggining to develop a Southern accent myself. And if you ever stand between a Brazilian and a Portuguese talking you'll surely be able to notice the difference. I'm not an expert in dialects, accents, and languages but to me the Portuguese spoken in Potugal seems more ... accented (for lack of terms), they seem to place emphasis on qu's and r's and st's, I guess I would say the one from Brazil sounds more smooth going, I don't know. Hey, if you go to the Olympics maybe we'll see each other. I'll definately be
> there!!!
>
>                                                                                   Vale,
>                                                                                       M. Iulius Cicurinus
>                      
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>  
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>   
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>   
>
> --- Em qui, 8/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@. ..> escreveu:
>
> De: rory12001 <rory12001@. ..>
> Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
> Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
> Data: Quinta-feira, 8 de Outubro de 2009, 22:42
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>  
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> Salve Davide;
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> hmm this is difficult. My Portuguese speaking friend L. Arminius Faustus {sadly inactive} is from Brasil and I had a great sound file of him, declaiming the famous Catinilarian speech with his Brasilian Portuguese accented Latin & it's beautiful.
>
>
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> When I joined NR, I was living in Europe so my live experience is with
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> Portuguese from Portugal. I knew someone from Argentina and she explained their different accent which I really liked; so different from Castilian.
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> As for English.When I lived in Ireland, Dubliners would say they couldn't understand Cork people, they had such thick Irish accents. English speakers from Yorkshire can be difficult too and I bet English spoken by a Texan is a challenge.
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>
>
> I grew up in New York City, so there isn't any kind of accent that can defeat me, lol. But I think my next language to learn will be Portuguese, then I can visit 2 continents & go to the Olympics:)
>
> vale
>
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> >
>
> > Hi Everyone,
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> >
>
> >    Hey Maior, thanks for the compliment, yeah, I also think my nativa toungue is beautiful. But to which Portuguese would you be referring to? The one spoken in Portugal or the one spoken in Brazil? I speak the one spoken in Brazil, and there's a whole big difference in accent. The way they speak it in Portugal is so different from the one we speak here, that sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what someone from Portugal is saying. It's like the English spoken in the U.S and the one spoken in England. I know that I have a hard time understanding some English people too, specially when their accent is really strong.
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> >   As far as whom I should mail I would like to ask to Scholastica, since you were mentioned here, if I could mail you tonight regarding the choice of my name. Thanks.
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> >
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> >                                                                                                             David
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> >
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> > --- Em qua, 7/10/09, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@ > escreveu:
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> >
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> > De: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@ >
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> > Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > Data: Quarta-feira, 7 de Outubro de 2009, 21:12
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> > A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Marcio Quadrae Davidi quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
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> > Hi "Lepus",
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> > There are language connections the world over; it's amazing!
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> >     ATS:  There are, within language families, and sometimes across them.
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> > To this extent, Latin being the root of many European languages, speaking any European language (English first tongue for me) has the ghosts of Latin.
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> >     ATS:  Latin is the mother of French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian, to name just the better-known Romance languages.  English is a Germanic language, not an Italic one as is Latin (and its cousins/sisters, Faliscan, Oscan and Umbrian), but the Italic languages and the Germanic ones (as well as Celtic, Greek, Slavic, Indic, etc. languages) have a common ancestor we call Indo-European, so there is a great deal of similarity in the basic grammar and vocabulary, though Germanic has some features apparently unique to this branch.  In addition, about 60% of the English vocabulary comes from Latin.  English ditched its inherited Germanic grammar, which was quite evident in Old English/Anglo- Saxon, but borrowed vocabulary from a number of sources.  Latin is probably the largest source thereof, but English seems to be the universal recipient among languages.  We have no problems with avatars and mahouts, saunas and sushi; English
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> > welcomes all.  
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> >     BTW:  ghosts generally imply death; Latin is anything but dead!  See below.  
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> >     If you wish to learn more about the history of Latin, I suggest that you take the Rudimenta Latina course the next time it is offered.  At present, we do not have a teacher for this and cannot predict when that might be; I am teaching five Latin courses, and that is more than enough, thank you very kindly, especially since one of the smallest courses is also the longest and so far, the liveliest.  
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> > I guess, by using a Latin accent we can appease our ancestors.. and each other
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> >     ATS:  All Roman citizens should make the effort to learn Latin.  It does take work, and may seem difficult at times, but the reward is great.  There are now many people in the world who actually speak Latin, and more who can write it.  Every year there are many conventicula, especially in Europe, where people gather for a week or so to speak Latin; there are groups which meet for meals and conversation in Latin, and there is an all-Latin mailing list populated by the best Latinists in the world as well as some of the rest of us.  We have some representatives of both Latin writers and Latin speakers right here in Nova Roma, and an all-Latin mailing list as well.  For many Latinists and others, Latin is their only common language, and it is by no means showing off to write or speak in Latin, especially when there is no common modern language between persons who wish to communicate.  To me, it is offensive to require everyone to communicate
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> > solely in English, though that is my mother tongue.  
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> > Ciao,
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> > Tiberius Marci Quadra
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> > Valete.  
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> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com. br>
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> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 3:01:22 AM
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> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Hi Everyone,
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> >   Thanks for the replies. Cato, I'll take your suggestion and mail both these censors sending my suggestion for my Roman name. Dexter and Quadrus, thanks for translating rabbit for me. Interesting that the word for hare is Lepus, it resembles more or less the same for my language, which is lebre. I do plan to study Latin when I apply for citizenship. I have been taking a look at some Latin texts,and I can really see now the similarities between my native tongue (Portuguese) and Latin. For example, our word for love is the same in Latin - amor.  Or daughter, which for us is filha and Latin is filia, and earth which is the same too - terra, etc...Thank you for all for your help.
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> >                                                                                             David
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> > --- Em ter, 6/10/09, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com> escreveu:
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> > De: Robin Marquardt <remarq777@yahoo. com>
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> > Assunto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
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> > Data: Terça-feira, 6 de Outubro de 2009, 21:34
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> >    Salve "lepus" According to this website: http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html <http://www.stars21. com/translator/ english_to_ latin.html>
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> > I am a novice to Latin lingua & grammar, but I thought to give the above to you.
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> > Tiberius Marci Quadra
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> > From: David Alan <david.alan99@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo. com> . br>
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> >
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> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 9:38:06 AM
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> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Salvate Maior and the other person who replied,
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> >   Thanks for your help and patience with me. I am leaving the net for tonight, and I'll be back to check my mail box on Wednesday. I'll have a name chosen by then and I'll present it here to see if it's all right.  By the way Maior, I know you don't know this but Alan's my middle name, my last name is Coelho, portuguese for "rabbit". I don't think I will want to use any part of my birth name for my Roman name. Hmm, I wonder what the Latin word for rabbit is....Thanks again.
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> > --- Em seg, 5/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com> escreveu:
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> > De: rory12001 <rory12001@yahoo. com>
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> > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com <http://ps.com>
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> > Data: Segunda-feira, 5 de Outubro de 2009, 23:03
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> >    Salve Davide;
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> >  if you stick to the 17 praenomina and choose a nomen off that list and an attested cognomen or one derived from your own name, then it shouldn't be a problem. For others here is the official list.
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> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
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> >  Sure post it.
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> > Latinists such as Lentulus and Scholastica who are part of the censorial cohors are here on the ML and very helpful. So if you don't want to choose something exotic that needs approval, why not?
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> > You could form a cognomen from your last name; Alanus.
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> > As for addressing people; Lentulus wrote a nice piece on the NRwiki for everyone:
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> > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Latin_ for_e-mail
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> > if you have more questions, no problem, we were all new citizens once,
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> >  optime vale
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> >  Maior
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> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> > > Hi Maior,
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> > >   I did look at the naming article at the Nova Roman website. My question now is - would it be proper to decide on my now and show it to the censors here (like Jonathan Vota did) or should I wait for the application page to be availabel again? It's no problem for me either way. If you want I can show you my name choice and if it is found appropriate by the censors here, I will make a new e-mail address with my new Roman name and join the group again. By the way, to what title should I refer to people to here? I know I am suppose to use the cognomen, but just the cognomen is acceptable? No "mister" or "miss" kind of title to use before the cognomen? Many thanks in advance.
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> > >                                                                                                  David
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> > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
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> > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
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> > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 6:58
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> > >                   Salvete Davide;
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> > >  please look at C. Petronius Dexter's post about naming, what's permissable and what isn't. or you could Latinize your name, though few choose it.
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> > > We migrated our website, so that's the problem. I don't know when it will be back. But you could write to the censors and ask. Dexter is a religious official as well and was in Rome for the feriae latinae, amazing....
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> > > here is the link, sorry I forgot to post it;
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> > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ <http://yahoo. com/>  group/ReligioRom ana/
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> > >                  optime vale
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> > >                    Maior
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> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, David Alan <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> > > > Hi M.Hortensia Maior,
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> > > >   Don't worry, I'll have my Roman name choosen by the time the application page is working properly (by the way, any possible way of knowing when that might be?). I thank you for putting the links. I actually have read most of the Nova Roma website as I access it almost everyday to read the articles. The only page you linked here that I have not been to yet is the Cultus Deorum. I didn't know you guys had a group just for that topic. If I have any question I'll be sure to ask, thanks ;-)!!!
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> > > > --- Em dom, 4/10/09, rory12001 <rory12001@ ..> escreveu:
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> > > > De: rory12001 <rory12001@ ..>
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> > > > Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
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> > > > Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
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> > > > Data: Domingo, 4 de Outubro de 2009, 3:33
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> > > >                   Salve Davide;
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> > > >   Don't wait to choose a Roman name as Nova Roma insists on historical accuracy, so look at the link below, choose from there and apply for citizenship and the cohors will help you.
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> > > > Look here at our website to get see the list :
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> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Choosing _a_Roman_ name
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> > > > we have a religio romana yahoo list, but we also discuss the cultus deorum here, there are many cultores, and I'm a religious official and if you have any questions just ask us.
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> > > > Here are articles in our NRwiki to help you
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> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Cultus_ deorum_Romanorum
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> > > > http://www.novaroma .org/nr/Venus   Dea Venus!
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> > > >              bene vale in pacem Veneris
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> > > >                 M. Hortensia Maior
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> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "david.alan99" <david.alan99@ ...> wrote:
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> > > > > Greetings Everyone,
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> > > > >    My birth name is David, I'm 18 years old, and I come from the Brasilia province(but I spent 6 years of my life in the America Austrorientalis province, in Georgia). I came across the Nova Roma website about a year or so ago when I was searching Roman religious practices on the net. However, I only felt ready to apply for citizenship now. I am very eager for the citizenship application page to go back up again so I can fill my application. Until then, this e-mail will be a temporary one. I do plan to make an e-mail with my Roman name (which I am having a tough time choosing) and use it here when I apply for citizenship (considering that I will be granted one.)
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> > > > >   My main interest here is the Religio Romana, although I do have an interest for learning Latin (I learn languages rather easily) and using it here, and I also have a general interest for the history of Rome. I have been very fortunate to find some woods about 15 minutes walk from my house, where I worship of Venus (as best as I am able) 4 days per week. If my citizenship is accepted and when time goes by and I mature here, I do plan do apply to become her priest someday. I also hold the worship of the Lares and Penates regularly in my home.
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> > > > >  And I would like to take this space here to ask my first question to the members here: I know that the household worship in the Roman home is largely talked about when the subject is Roman Religion, but I've been trying to find some of the classical sources that talk about the house worship and I've had no luck finding much (except for Fasti). Can somebody point other sources for me please? Thanks in advance.
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> > > > >                                                       David
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Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71035 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Salvéte omnes,

M.Tullius Cicero:
Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit.
Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill.

Anon:
Heu, modo itera omnia quae mihi nunc nuper narravisti, sed nunc anglice?
Listen, would you repeat everything you just told me, only this time say it in English?

Seneca:
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
We don't learn from school, but from life.

Terence:
Quot capita tot sensus
There are as many opinions as there are heads

Blockheads:
The following is a letter sent to John Quincy Adams by his mother Abigail after she received word from her sister that while John Adams is an impressive young man he is overly enamored with himself and his opinions and they were not going over well.
Abigail wrote to her son as follows: "If you are conscious to yourself that you possess more knowledge upon some subjects than others of your standing, reflect that you have had greater opportunities of seeing the world and obtaining knowledge of mankind than your contemporaries. That you have never wanted a book, but it has been supplied to you. That your whole time has been spent in the company of men of literature and science. How unpardonable would it have been in you to have turned out a blockhead."
David McCullough, a biographer of JQA concludes how "unpardonable it would be for us — with all that we have been given, all the advantages we have, all the continuing opportunities we have to enhance and increase our love of learning — to turn out blockheads or to raise blockheads."


In amicitia,
Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71036 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Salvéte omnes,

For your reading pleasure in light of recent posts and with the season of politics on the horizon:

IVVENALIS SATVRAE
SATVRA II
THE SATIRES OF JUVENAL
SATIRE II
MORALISTS WITHOUT MORALS

VLTRA Sauromatas fugere hinc libet et glacialem
Oceanum, quotiens aliquid de moribus audent
qui Curios simulant et Bacchanalia vivunt.
indocti primum, quamquam plena omnia gypso
5 Chrysippi invenias; nam perfectissimus horum,
si quis Aristotelen similem vel Pittacon emit
et iubet archetypos pluteum servare Cleanthas.
frontis nulla fides; quis enim non vicus abundat
tristibus obscaenis? castigas turpia, cum sis
10 inter Socraticos notissima fossa cinaedos?
hispida membra quidem et durae per bracchia saetae
promittunt atrocem animum, sed podice levi
caeduntur tumidae medico ridente mariscae.
rarus sermo illis et magna libido tacendi
15 atque supercilio brevior coma. verius ergo
et magis ingenue Peribomius; hunc ego fatis
inputo, qui vultu morbum incessuque fatetur.
horum simplicitas miserabilis, his furor ipse
dat veniam; sed peiores, qui talia verbis
20 Herculis invadunt et de virtute locuti
clunem agitant. "ego te ceventem, Sexte, verebor?"
infamis Varillus ait "quo deterior te?"
loripedem rectus derideat, Aethiopem albus;
quis tulerit Gracchos de seditione querentes?
25 quis caelum terris non misceat et mare caelo,
si fur displiceat Verri, homicida Miloni,
Clodius accuset moechos, Catilina Cethegum,
in tabulam Sullae si dicant discipuli tres?
qualis erat nuper tragico pollutus adulter
30 concubitu, qui tunc leges revocabat amaras
omnibus atque ipsis Veneri Martique timendas,
cum tot abortivis fecundam Iulia vulvam
solveret et patruo similes effunderet offas.
nonne igitur iure ac merito vitia ultima fictos
35 contemnunt Scauros et castigata remordent?

I would fain flee to Sarmatia and the frozen Sea when people who ape the Curii[1] and live like Bacchanals dare talk about morals. In the first place, they are unlearned persons, though you may find their houses crammed with plaster casts of Chrysippus;[2] for their greatest hero is the man who has brought a likeness of Aristotle or Pittacus,[3] or bids his shelves preserve an original portrait of Cleanthes.[4] Men's faces are not to be trusted; does not every street abound in gloomy-visaged debauchees? And do you rebuke foul practices, when you are yourself the most notorious delving-ground among Socratic reprobates? A hairy body, and arms stiff with bristles, give promise of a manly soul: but sleek are your buttocks when the grinning doctor cuts into the swollen piles. Men of your kidney talk little; they glory in taciturnity, and cut their hair shorter than their eyebrows. Peribomius[5] himself is more open and more honest; his face, his walk, betray his distemper, and I charge Destiny with his failings. Such men excite your pity by their frankness; the very fury of their passions wins them pardon. Far worse are those who denounce evil ways in the language of a Hercules; and after discoursing upon virtue, prepare to practise vice. "Am I to respect you, Sextus," quoth the ill-famed Varillus, "when you do as I do? How am I worse than yourself?" Let the straight-legged man laugh at the club-footed, the white man at the blackamoor: but who could endure the Gracchi railing at sedition? Who will not confound heaven with earth, and sea with sky, if Verres denounce thieves, or Milo[6] cut-throats? If Clodius condemn adulterers, or Catiline upbraid Cethegus;[7] or if Sulla's three disciples[8] inveigh against proscriptions? Such a man was that adulterer[9] who, after lately defiling himself by a union of the tragic style, revived the stern laws that were to be a terror to all men-ay, even to Mars and Venus-at the moment when Julia was relieving her fertile womb and giving birth to abortions that displayed the similitude of her uncle. Is it not then right and proper that the very worst of sinners should despise your pretended Scauri,[l0] and bite back when bitten?


Non tulit ex illis torvum Laronia quendam
clamantem totiens "ubi nunc, lex Iulia?[1] dormis?"
atque ita subridens: "felicia tempora, quae te
moribus opponunt. habeat iam Roma pudorem,
40 tertius e caelo cecidit Cato. sed tamen unde
haec emis, hirsuto spirant opobalsama collo
quae tibi? ne pudeat dominum monstrare tabernae.
quod si vexantur leges ac iura,[2] citari
ante omnes debet Scantinia: respice primum
45 et scrutare viros; faciunt nam[3] plura, sed illos
defendit numerus iunctaeque umbone phalanges.
magna inter molles concordia. non erit ullum
exemplum in nostro tam detestabile sexu.
Media non lambit Cluviam nec Flora Catullam
50 Hispo subit iuvenes et morbo pallet utroque.

36 Laronia could not contain herself when one of these sour-faced worthies cried out, "What of you, Julian Law?[11] What, gone to sleep?" To which she answered smilingly, "O happy times to have you for a censor of our morals! Once more may Rome regain her modesty; a third Cato has come down to us from the skies! But tell me, where did you buy that balsam juice that exhales from your hairy neck? Don't be ashamed to point out to me the shopman! If laws and statutes are to be raked up, you should cite first of all the Scantinian:[12] inquire first into the things that are done by men; men do more wicked things than we do, but they are protected by their numbers, and the tight-locked shields of their phalanx. Male effeminates agree wondrously well among themselves; never in our sex will you find such loathsome examples of evil. . . .


"Numquid nos agimus causas, civilia iura
novimus, aut ullo strepitu fora vestra movemus?
luctantur paucae, comedunt colyphia paucae:
vos lanam trahitis calathisque peracta refertis
55 vellera, vos tenui praegnantem stamine fusum
Penelope melius, levius torquetis Arachne,
horrida quale facit residens in codice paelex.
notum est cur solo tabulas inpleverit Hister
liberto, dederit vivus cur multa puellae;
60 dives erit magno quae dormit tertia lecto;
tu nube atque tace: donant arcana cylindros.
de nobis post haec tristis sententia fertur?
dat veniam corvis, vexat censura columbas."

51 "Do we women ever plead in the courts? Are we learned in the Law? Do your court-houses ever ring with our bawling? Some few of us are wrestlers; some of us eat meat-rations: you men spin wool and bring back your tale of work in full baskets when it is done; you twirl round the spindle big with fine thread more deftly than Penelope, more delicately than Arachne,[l3] doing work such as an unkempt drab squatting on a log would do. Everybody knows why Hister left all his property to his freedman, why in his life-time he gave so many presents to his young wife; the woman who sleeps third in a big bed will want for nothing. So when you take a husband, keep your mouth shut; precious stones[14] will be the reward of a well-kept secret. After this, what condemnation can be pronounced on us women? Our censor absolves the raven and passes judgment on the pigeon!"



Fugerunt trepidi vera ac manifesta canentem
65 Stoicidae; quid enim falsi Laronia? sed quid
non facient alii, cum tu multicia sumas,
Cretice, et hanc vestem populo mirante perores
in Proculas et Pollittas? est moecha Fabulla,
damnetur, si vis, etiam Carfinia: talem
70 non sumet damnata togam. "sed Iulius ardet,
aestuo." nudus agas: minus est insania turpis.
en habitum quo te leges ac iura ferentem
vulneribus crudis populus modo victor, et illud
montanum positis audiret vulgus aratris.
75 quid non proclames, in corpore iudicis ista
si videas? quaero an deceant multicia testem.
acer et indomitus libertatisque magister,
Cretice, perluces. dedit hanc contagio labem
et dabit in plures, sicut grex totus in agris
80 unius scabie cadit et porrigine[4] porci
uvaque conspecta livorem ducit ab uva.

64 While Laronia was uttering these plain truths, the would-be Stoics made off in confusion; for what word of untruth had she spoken? Yet what will not other men do when you, Creticus, dress yourself in garments of gauze, and while everyone is marvelling at your attire, launch out against the Proculae and the Pollittae? Fabulla is an adulteress; condemn Carfinia of the same crime if you please; but however guilty, they would never wear such a gown as yours. "O but," you say, "these July days are so sweltering!" Then why not plead without clothes? Such madness would be less disgraceful. A pretty garb yours in which to propose or expound laws to our countrymen flushed with victory, and with their wounds yet unhealed; and to those mountain rustics who had laid down their ploughs to listen to you! What would you not exclaim if you saw a judge dressed like that? Would a robe of gauze sit becomingly on a witness? You, Creticus, you, the keen, unbending champion of human liberty, to be clothed in a transparency! This plague has come upon us by infection, and it will spread still further, just as in the fields the scab of one sheep, or the mange of one pig, destroys an entire herd; just as one bunch of grapes takes on its sickly colour from the aspect of its neighbour.



Foedius hoc aliquid quandoque audebis amictu;
nemo repente fuit turpissimus. accipient te
paulatim qui longa domi redimicula sumunt
85 frontibus et toto posuere monilia collo,
atque bonam tenerae placant abdomine porcae
et magno cratere deam; sed more sinistro
exagitata procul non intrat femina limen:
solis ara deae maribus patet. "ite profanae,"
90 clamatur, "nullo gemit hic tibicina cornu."
talia secreta coluerunt orgia taeda
Cecropiam soliti Baptae lassare Cotyton.
ille supercilium madida fuligine tinctum
obliqua producit acu pingitque trementis
95 attollens oculos; vitreo bibit ille priapo,
reticulumque comis auratum ingentibus implet
caerulea indutus scutulata aut galbina rasa,
et per Iunonem domini iurante ministro;
ille tenet speculum, pathici gestamen Othonis,
100 Actoris Aurunci spolium, quo se ille videbat
armatum, cum iam tolli vexilla iuberet.
res memoranda novis annalibus atque recenti
historia, speculum civilis sarcina belli;
nimirum summi ducis est occidere Galbam
105 et curare cutem; summi constantia civis
Bebriacis campis spolium[5] adfectare Palati,
et pressum in facie digitis extendere panem,
quod nec in Assyrio pharetrata Samiramis orbe,
maesta nec Actiaca fecit Cleopatra carina.
110 hic nullus verbis pudor aut reverentia mensae,
hic turpis[6] Cybeles et fracta voce loquendi
libertas et crine senex fanaticus albo
sacrorum antistes, rarum ac memorabile magni
gutturis exemplum conducendusque magister.
115 quid tamen expectant, Phrygio quos tempus erat iam
more supervacuam cultris abrumpere carnem?

82 Some day you will venture on something more shameful than this dress; no one reaches the depths of turpitude all at once. By degrees you will be welcomed by those who in their homes put long fillets round their brows, swathe themselves with necklaces, and propitiate the Bona Dea with the stomach of a porker and a huge bowl of wine, though by an evil usage the Goddess warns off all women from entering the door; none but males may approach her altar.[15] "Away with you! profane women" is the cry; "no booming horn, no she-minstrels here!" Such were the secret torchlight orgies with which the Baptae[16] wearied the Cecropian[17] Cotytto. One prolongs his eyebrows with some damp soot staining the edge of a needle, and lifts up his blinking eyes to be painted; another drinks out of an obscenely-shaped glass, and ties up his long locks in a gilded net; he is clothed in blue checks, or smooth-faced green; the attendant swears by Juno like his master. Another holds in his hand a mirror like that carried by the effeminate Otho: a trophy of the Auruncan Actor,[18] in which he gazed at his own image in full armour when he was just ready to give the order to advance--a thing notable and novel in the annals of our time, a mirror among the kit of Civil War! It needed, in truth, a mighty general to slay Galba, and keep his own skin sleek; it needed a citizen of highest courage to ape the splendours of the Palace on the field of Bebriacum,[19] and plaster his face with dough! Never did the quiver-bearing Samiramis[20] the like in her Assyrian realm, nor the despairing Cleopatra on board her ship at Actium. No decency of language is there here: no regard for the manners of the table. You will hear all the foul talk and squeaking tones of Cybele; a grey-haired frenzied old man presides over the rites; he is a rare and notable master of mighty gluttony, and should be hired to teach it. But why wait any longer when it were time in Phrygian fashion to lop off the superfluous flesh?



Quadringenta dedit Gracchus sestertia dotem
cornicini, sive hic recto cantaverat aere;
signatae tabulae, dictum "feliciter," ingens
120 cena sedet, gremio iacuit nova nupta mariti.
o proceres, censore opus est an haruspice nobis?
scilicet horreres maioraque monstra putares,
si mulier vitulum vel si bos ederet agnum?
segmenta et longos habitus et flammea sumit
125 arcano qui sacra ferens nutantia loro
sudavit clupeis ancilibus.

117 Gracchus has presented to a cornet player-or perhaps it was a player on the straight horn-a dowry of four hundred thousand sesterces. The contract has been signed; the benedictions have been pronounced; a crowd of banqueters seated, the new made bride is reclining on the bosom of her husband. O ye nobles of Rome! is it a soothsayer that we need, or a Censor? Would you be more aghast, would you deem it a greater portent, if a woman gave birth to a calf, or a cow to a lamb? The man who is now arraying himself in the flounces and train and veil of a bride once carried the nodding shields[21] of Mars by the sacred thongs and sweated under the sacred burden!



O pater urbis,
unde nefas tantum Latiis pastoribus? unde
haec tetigit, Gradive, tuos urtica nepotes?
traditur ecce viro clarus genere atque opibus vir,
130 nec galeam quassas, nec terram cuspide pulsas,
nec quereris patri? vade ergo et cede severi
iugeribus campi, quem neglegis.

126 O Father of our city, whence came such wickedness among thy Latin shepherds? How did such a lust possess thy grandchildren, O Gradivus? Behold! Here you have a man of high birth and wealth being handed over in marriage to a man, and yet neither shakest thy helmet, nor smitest the earth with thy spear, nor yet protestest to thy Father? Away with thee then; begone from the broad acres of that Martial Plain[22] which thou hast forgotten!



"Officium cras primo sole mihi peragendum in valle Quirini."
"quae causa officii?" "quid quaeris? nubit amicus
135 nec multos adhibet." liceat modo vivere, fient,
fient ista palam, cupient et in acta referri.
interea tormentum ingens nubentibus haeret,
quod nequeant parere et partu retinere maritos.
sed melius, quod nil animis in corpora iuris
140 natura indulget: steriles moriuntur, et illis
turgida non prodest condita pyxide Lyde,
nec prodest agili palmas praebere luperco.

132 "I have a ceremony to attend," quoth one, "at dawn to-morrow, in the Quirinal valley." "What is the occasion?" "No need to ask: a friend is taking to himself a husband; quite a small affair." Yes, and if we only live long enough, we shall see these things done openly: people will wish to see them reported among the news of the day. Meanwhile these would-be brides have one great trouble: they can bear no children wherewith to keep the affection of their husbands; well has nature done in granting to their desires no power over their bodies. They die unfertile; naught avails them the medicine-chest of the bloated Lyde, or to hold out their hands to the blows of the swift-footed Luperci![23]



Vicit et hoc monstrum tunicati fuscina Gracchi,
lustravitque fuga mediam gladiator harenam
145 et Capitolinis generosior et Marcellis
et Catuli Paulique minoribus et Fabiis et
omnibus ad podium spectantibus, his licet ipsum
admoveas cuius tunc munere retia misit.
Esse aliquos manes et subterranea regna

143 Greater still the portent when Gracchus, clad in a tunic, played the gladiator, and fled, trident in hand, across the arena-Gracchus, a man of nobler birth than the Capitolini, or the Marcelli, or the descendents of Catulus or Paulus, or the Fabii: nobler than all the spectators in the podium;[24] not excepting him who gave the show at which that net[25] was flung.



150 et contum[7] et Stygio ranas in gurgite nigras,
atque una transire vadum tot milia cumba
nec pueri credunt, nisi qui nondum aere lavantur.
sed tu vera puta: Curius quid sentit et ambo
Scipiadae, quid Fabricius manesque Camilli,
155 quid Cremerae legio et Cannis consumpta iuventus,
tot bellorum animae, quotiens hinc talis ad illos
umbra venit? cuperent lustrari, si qua darentur
sulpura cum taedis et si foret umida laurus.
illic[8] heu miseri traducimur. arma quidem ultra
160 litora Iuvernae promovimus et modo captas
Orcadas ac minima contentos nocte Britannos;
sed quae nunc populi fiunt victoris in urbe,
non faciunt illi quos vicimus. et tamen unus
Armenius Zalaces cunctis narratur ephebis
165 mollior ardenti sese indulsisse tribuno.
aspice quid faciant commercia: venerat obses,
hic fiunt homines. nam si mora longior urbem
indulsit pueris, non umquam[9] derit amator.
mittentur bracae cultelli frena flagellum;
170 sic praetextatos referunt Artaxata mores.

149 That there are such things as Manes, and kingdoms below ground, and punt-poles, and Stygian pools black with frogs, and all those thousands crossing over in a single bark-these things not even boys believe, except such as have not yet had their penny bath. But just imagine them to be true-what would Curius and the two Scipios think? or Fabricius and the spirit of Camillus? What would the legion that fought at the Cremera[26] think, or the young manhood that fell at Cannae; what would all those gallant hearts feel when a shade of this sort came down to them from here? They would wish to be purified; if only sulphur and torches and damp laurel-branches were to be had. Such is the degradation to which we have come! Our arms indeed we have pushed beyond Juverna's[27] shores, to the new-conquered Orcades and the short-nighted Britons; but the things which we do in our victorious city will never be done by the men whom we have conquered. And yet they say that one Zalaces, an Armenian more effeminate than any of our youth, has yielded to the ardour of a Tribune! Just see what evil communications do! He came as a hostage: but here boys are turned into men. Give them a long sojourn in our city, and lovers will never fail them. They will throw away their trousers and their knives, their bridles and their whips, and thus carry back to Artaxata the manners of our Roman youth.

Optimé Valéte in pacem Veneris,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71037 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Salvéte Omnes,

Honey~ Focusing mainly on Wound Care and its adaptation to today's medicine.

"Unwashed wool supplies very many remediesÂ…..it is appliedÂ….with honey to old sores. Wounds it heals if dipped in wine or vinegarÂ….yolks of eggsÂ….are taken for dysentery with the ash of their shells, poppy juice and wine. It is recommended to bathe the eyes with a decoction of the liver and to apply the marrow to those that are painful or swollen."
~Pliny

The many attributes of Honey were very well known in the Ancient World, for its preservative value, its healing value, flavor and health properties.
Women used honey to soften the skin as facial masks, in lip balm to sweeten one's kiss and a touch may have been added to perfumes or even to skin balms for obvious reasons. A skin softener from beeswax was also used which was made from boiling the beeswax in salt water. Pliny also describes using the broth of white beeswax and salt water to feed to those with dysentery. Honey was also used for food preservation in Ancient Rome and already was being used in embalming in other ancient cultures, although Ancient Roman citizens rarely buried their dead.
Honey suppresses infection in wounds because of its high sugar content however due to its antibacterial components dressings do not have to be changed as often allowing the patients body to heal itself through its own defenses allowing autolytic debridement, re-epithelialization and the subsequent healing. Our ancient ancestors knew this through observation and success.
Modern microbiological studies have shown more than one hundred-fold differences in the potency of the antibacterial activity of various types of honey with best results expected when using a honey with a high level of antibacterial activity. Something our ancient ancestors already knew. While discussing differences in honeys, Aristotle (384-322 BC) referred to pale honey as being "good as a salve for sore eyes and wounds." Dioscorides (c.50 AD) wrote that pale yellow honey from Attica was the best: "good for all rotten and hollow ulcers".
Today some still use honey with good results however in clinical settings, and at home, Hydrocolloids are often used to get similar effects without the mess; these are made of cellulose, guar, pectin and gelatin.
The antibacterial activity of honey is due to hydrogen peroxide generated primarily by the action of an enzyme that the bees add to the nectar although there are some floral sources that provide additional antibacterial components. Honey is effective against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus aureus which are the most common causes of infected wounds. Our body tissues and serum contain catalase, which is a human enzyme that breaks down hydrogen. Catalase does not break down the antibacterial components that come from the nectar. The bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so care must be taken to aerate wounds under wound dressings or in wound cavities. The same bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the acidity of honey is neutralized by body fluids.
Manuka honey is recommended for modern use as it contains hydrogen peroxide activity as well as the component that comes from the nectar. It is also reportedly more stable in the presence of heat, light and can tolerate less oxygen in the event a closed bandage is needed. Unpasteurized honey, as was used in ancient Rome, should be used because the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide is destroyed by heating and exposure to light so it should also be stored in a cool place and protected from light. Honey can be slightly warmed to liquefy it at no more than 37°C. It is interesting to note that in modern studies no case of infection resulting from the use of honey has been reported.

Wound Care using Honey:
1. The amount of honey depends on the amount of fluid exuding from the wound.
2. The various beneficial effects of honey on wound tissues will be reduced or lost if small amounts of honey become diluted by large amounts of fluid. The frequency of dressing changes required will depend on how rapidly the honey is being diluted by fluid.
3. Daily dressing changes are usual however up to three times daily may be needed. If the dressing sticks to the wound this indicates that more frequent changes of dressing are needed. Exudation of fluid should be reduced by the anti-inflammatory action of honey, so less frequent dressing changes may be needed later - a few days between changes – this will give the wound a chance to re-epithelialize and heal using the body's own system.
4. More honey is required on deeper infections, to obtain an effective level of antibacterial activity diffusing deep into the wound tissues. Typically, 20 ml of honey (25 - 30 g, 1 ounce) is used on a 10 cm X 10 cm (4 inch X 4 inch) dressing.
5. Occlusive (waterproof) or absorbent secondary dressings (Hydrocolloids) are needed to prevent honey oozing out from the wound dressing. (Occlusive dressings are better as they keep more of the honey in contact with the wound - absorbent dressings soak the honey away from the wound
6. Dressing pads impregnated with honey are the most convenient way of applying honey to surface wounds: it is best to spread the honey on the dressing rather than on the wound.
7. Abscesses, cavities and depressions in the wound bed are filled with honey before applying the honey dressing pad, so that the honey is in direct contact with the wound bed.
8. The honey dressings are cut to a size that extends beyond the edges of the wound and any surrounding inflamed area.

There are many more uses for honey, some I use, others, I wouldn't:

Mercurialis (de Arte Gymnast. Amstel. 4to. 1672, pp2, 3):
"A blind soldier named Valerius Apes, having consulted the oracle, was informed that he should mix the blood of a white cock with honey, to make up an ointment to be applied to his eyes, for three consecutive days: he received his sight, and returned public thanks to the gods."
"Julian appeared lost beyond all hope from a spitting of blood. The god ordered him to take from the altar some seeds of the pine, and to mix them with honey, of which mixture he was to eat for three days. He was saved, and came to thank the gods in presence of the people."

I would not put chicken blood on any open wound or body opening in today's world. However if one has a sty I could see how a poultice of pure rose water and honey would help. In antiquity honey had a great reputation in producing clearer vision; this may also be one of the reasons for its reputation of endowing the power of divination – so it improves not only the physical but also the spiritual sight – a meta-magical construct.
Pine seeds with honey are nutritious and contain thiamine, vitamin B1, pinoleic acid, magnesium, rich in iron (key component in hemoglobin that oxygen carrying pigment that supplies energy and contains more protein than any other seed/nut in addition to the highest concentration of Oleic acid(the stuff that lowers triglycerides) and have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant action. So Julian surely received some benefit and may have had an iron deficiency anemia- spitting up blood can be a symptom of anemia.

Most of us have heard of Honey and lemon, or Honey and Rum (or another alcohol of choice) including Mulsum – all beneficial and all having origins in ancient times. Oxymel, a mixture of honey, vinegar, salt, and water was not just used in preparing vegetables was also a cure for throat and ear problems. Hydromel (when fermented makes mead) and aqua mulsa, a honey-water, were also used as medicine. A tonic of cinnamon and honey were used to treat cold and sore throats, the antibacterial properties of cinnamon are for another time ;)
• Hippocrates considered honey a very good expectorant and said of its virtues: "It causes heat, cleans sores and ulcers, softens hard ulcers of the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores." He recommended honey for difficulty in breathing due to its expectorant qualities: "it causes spitting." This has credence in modern treatment.
• Dioscorides in Materia Medica often mentions honey as an excellent medicine in addition to beeswax, propolis and honey- wie. He also praises the medicinal value of wax, propolis and honey-wine. This also has credence in modern treatment.
• Cornelius Celsus in De Medicina stated that a physician must heal in a safe, quick and pleasing manner "tuto, cito et jucunde", which could be best accomplished with honey.
• Galen recommended the mixing of four parts of honey with one part of gall of the sea-tortoise which, when dropped into the eyes, would improve the sight. He also recommended a paste of honey and dead bees for hair growth: "Take Bees dead in combs, and when they are through dry make them into powder, mingle them with the honey in which they died and anoint the parts of the Head that are bald and thin-haired, and you shall see them grow again."
• Marcellus: "The honey pure and neat wherein the Bees are dead, let that drop into the eyes; or honey mixed with the ashes of the heads of Bees, makes the eyes very clear." Today in India they still make a kohl that even children wear to protect and nourish their eyes, it is made of ash, beeswax, a touch of camphor and in some cases a touch of honey (although this is usually ceremonial). It is supposed to make the eyes healthy, clear the whites and make the eyes shine.
• Pliny also credited honey in which bees have died with the faculty of relieving dullness of sight and hearing. Pliny burned the bees, mixed their ashes with honey and used the substance for all kinds of ailments: "Powdered bees with milk, wine or honey will surely cure dropsy, dissolve gravel and stones, will open all passages of urine and cure the stopping of the bladder. Bees pounded with honey cure griping of the belly." Honey can be soothing to some abdominal pain in small amounts; it can also be a laxative in larger amounts. Clear fluids are better for stones and bladder problems though.
• Celsus prescribed raw honey as a laxative and boiled honey as a cure for diarrhea: "the acrimony is taken away by boyling which wont to move the belly and to diminish the virtue of the food" (Libr. 3 C. 3). Again, it is dependant on amounts and how the individual reacts to the honey.
• Claudius Aelianus (Aelian) believed that honey from Pontus cured epilepsy. I would have to see what else is in that honey, and if perhaps the "seizures" may have been due to a blood glucose imbalance;)
• Porphyry believed honey had four excellent qualities: 1) nourishing food 2) a good cleanser 3) healing power 4) pleasant due to its sweetness. I concur.
• Aristoxenus believed anyone who eats honey, spring onions and bread for his daily breakfast will be free from all diseases for life.

Well this is all I have for today!

Cúrá ut valeás optimé!

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71038 From: Robert Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Considering the fact that I had posted it on the BA - and it was Maior herself who harped it on to the ML. Perhaps you should find her own actions neither funny or acceptable. All I did was stand by my statement that I view her precisely as Goebbels. As a Jew, I have no problem noting the similarity of her actions and the actions of Joseph Goebbels. It is up to her to reflect on those similarities and to see if there needs to be reformative actions taken to prevent such similarities from shining through. Look at it as a service. We are trying to help cut through the BS so that she can improve her life and make a better contribution to the community.

Vale,

Sulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> I know you're being sarcastic, but it really isn't useful or essential. It
> is disgusting that one Jew (Sulla) can call another Jew (Maior is culturally
> Jewish) Goebbels. I find it neither funny or acceptable.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 3:45 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sullae,
> >
> >
> > > I stand by the nickname I gave you that you are the Goebbels of Nova
> > Roma.
> >
> > As we all see, that is very useful and essential to Nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71039 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman cookery
Salvete Omnes,

For the Gods and Goddesses:

Libum
Ancient Roman Recipe from Cato's On Agriculture which is a sacrificial cake used in rituals.
Here you'll find the recipe on the Nova Roma site http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Libum

The following is an interpretation of Apicus' Libum recipe from "A Taste of Ancient Rome" By Ilaria Gozzini Giacosa. Translated by Anna Herklotz. The University of Chicago Press, 1992.

1 cup plain, all purpose flour
8 ounces ricotta cheese
1 egg, beaten
bay leaves
1/2 cup clear honey

Sift the flour into a bowl. Beat the cheese until it's soft and stir it into the flour along with the egg. Form soft dough and divide into 4. Mold each one into a bun and place them on a greased baking tray with a fresh bay leaf underneath. Heat the oven to 425° F. Cover the cakes with your brick* and bake for 35-40 minutes until golden-brown. Warm the honey and place the warm cakes in it so that they absorb it. Allow to stand 30 minutes before serving.

*The Romans often covered their food while it was cooking with a domed earthenware cover called a testo. You can use an overturned, shallow clay pot, a metal bowl, or casserole dish as a brick.


Ricotta Recipe. In some places it is hard to find good Ricotta but it is easy to make yourself, takes a little over an hour.


2 quarts/2 liter whole Milk
1 cup/250ml heavy Cream or half and half
1/2 tsp/2.5ml salt
3 tblsp/45ml fresh Lemon juice
You'll need a large, heavy pot, large sieve, fine mesh cheesecloth, pot to set sieve in, covered storage container.

In heavy saucepan, bring milk, cream and salt to a rolling boil on medium heat, stirring occasionally to prevent scorching.

Add the lemon juice.
Reduce the heat to a low simmer, stirring constantly until mixture curdles in approx. 2 to 3 minutes.
Pour mixture into cheesecloth-lined sieve, cover.
Allow it to drain for an hour, until ricotta is firm.
Transfer into a container, cover and chill.

Use within two days.


Savillum (Ancient Roman Cheesecake) #1

4oz/120g plain flour

8oz/225g Ricotta Cheese

1 beaten Egg,

Bay Leaves

4oz/120g clear Honey.

Sift the flour in a bowl.
Whip the cheese until it is soft; fold it into the flour along with the egg.

Form soft dough and divide into four.
Divide into four buns place a whole bay leaf under each on greased baking pan

Heat the oven to 425F /220C.
Bake for 35-40 minutes until they are golden brown.

Warm the honey and place the warm cakes into it so that they absorb the liquid fully.
Allow the cheesecakes to stand for 30 minutes before serving.


Savillum (Ancient Roman Cheesecake, modern interpretation) #2

3 Eggs

8oz/225gm Ricotta cheese

4oz/120g Honey

1 tsp/5ml grated Orange zest

1 tsp/5ml Lemon juice

4oz/120g all-purpose Flour

15 Bay leaves



Preheat oven to 425F/220C.

Put some water into a small, oven proof bowl, place into the oven.

Arrange the Bay leaves over the bottom of the springform pan to cover.

Beat the Eggs in a mixing bowl, then mix in Ricotta cheese, Honey, Orange zest, and Lemon juice.

Sprinkle in the Flour, stir until evenly combined.

Gently pour the batter over the Bay leaves, being careful not to disturb them too much.

Bake in the preheated oven until browned, about 35 to 40 minutes.

Run the tip of a paring knife around the edges of the pan, and release from the spring-form pan.

Invert onto a serving plate, and serve warm or chilled.

Valete optime,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71040 From: Shoshana Hathaway Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Caeca Juliae Sal,

Si Vales, valeo. You didn't, by any chance, get those sentences from ...
the Wheelock text, did you? (laughing). Some beginning Gramatica Latina
students (ahem, wink) might be a bit interested. Wherever you got them,
they were cogent and interesting. I haven't read the biography of John Q.
Adams, but I've read other McCullough books, so I expect I will, at some
point. Don't you just love Abigail? I've always felt she would have felt
rather at home in Roma Antiqua.

Vale Optime,
C. Maria Caeca
----- Original Message -----
From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts


Salvéte omnes,

M.Tullius Cicero:
Assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit.
Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and
skill.

Anon:
Heu, modo itera omnia quae mihi nunc nuper narravisti, sed nunc anglice?
Listen, would you repeat everything you just told me, only this time say it
in English?

Seneca:
Non scholae sed vitae discimus.
We don't learn from school, but from life.

Terence:
Quot capita tot sensus
There are as many opinions as there are heads

Blockheads:
The following is a letter sent to John Quincy Adams by his mother Abigail
after she received word from her sister that while John Adams is an
impressive young man he is overly enamored with himself and his opinions and
they were not going over well.
Abigail wrote to her son as follows: "If you are conscious to yourself that
you possess more knowledge upon some subjects than others of your standing,
reflect that you have had greater opportunities of seeing the world and
obtaining knowledge of mankind than your contemporaries. That you have never
wanted a book, but it has been supplied to you. That your whole time has
been spent in the company of men of literature and science. How unpardonable
would it have been in you to have turned out a blockhead."
David McCullough, a biographer of JQA concludes how "unpardonable it would
be for us - with all that we have been given, all the advantages we have,
all the continuing opportunities we have to enhance and increase our love of
learning - to turn out blockheads or to raise blockheads."


In amicitia,
Julia





------------------------------------

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08:10:00
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71041 From: Shoshana Hathaway Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Caeca Juliae sal,

Thank you for this very interesting post. I did know some of this, but
certainly not all, and not the great use made of honey and beeswax by the
Romans. I wonder ...was lavender available to the Ancient Romans? As I am
sure you know, lavender is an excellent help in healing burns, among other
things, at least in essential oil form.

Vale optime,
C. Maria Caeca
----- Original Message -----
From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:19 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Medicine


Salvéte Omnes,

Honey~ Focusing mainly on Wound Care and its adaptation to today's medicine.

"Unwashed wool supplies very many remedies...it is applied..with honey to
old sores. Wounds it heals if dipped in wine or vinegar..yolks of eggs..are
taken for dysentery with the ash of their shells, poppy juice and wine. It
is recommended to bathe the eyes with a decoction of the liver and to apply
the marrow to those that are painful or swollen."
~Pliny

The many attributes of Honey were very well known in the Ancient World, for
its preservative value, its healing value, flavor and health properties.
Women used honey to soften the skin as facial masks, in lip balm to sweeten
one's kiss and a touch may have been added to perfumes or even to skin balms
for obvious reasons. A skin softener from beeswax was also used which was
made from boiling the beeswax in salt water. Pliny also describes using the
broth of white beeswax and salt water to feed to those with dysentery. Honey
was also used for food preservation in Ancient Rome and already was being
used in embalming in other ancient cultures, although Ancient Roman citizens
rarely buried their dead.
Honey suppresses infection in wounds because of its high sugar content
however due to its antibacterial components dressings do not have to be
changed as often allowing the patients body to heal itself through its own
defenses allowing autolytic debridement, re-epithelialization and the
subsequent healing. Our ancient ancestors knew this through observation and
success.
Modern microbiological studies have shown more than one hundred-fold
differences in the potency of the antibacterial activity of various types of
honey with best results expected when using a honey with a high level of
antibacterial activity. Something our ancient ancestors already knew. While
discussing differences in honeys, Aristotle (384-322 BC) referred to pale
honey as being "good as a salve for sore eyes and wounds." Dioscorides (c.50
AD) wrote that pale yellow honey from Attica was the best: "good for all
rotten and hollow ulcers".
Today some still use honey with good results however in clinical settings,
and at home, Hydrocolloids are often used to get similar effects without the
mess; these are made of cellulose, guar, pectin and gelatin.
The antibacterial activity of honey is due to hydrogen peroxide generated
primarily by the action of an enzyme that the bees add to the nectar
although there are some floral sources that provide additional antibacterial
components. Honey is effective against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus
aureus which are the most common causes of infected wounds. Our body tissues
and serum contain catalase, which is a human enzyme that breaks down
hydrogen. Catalase does not break down the antibacterial components that
come from the nectar. The bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in
honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so care must be taken
to aerate wounds under wound dressings or in wound cavities. The same bee
enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the
acidity of honey is neutralized by body fluids.
Manuka honey is recommended for modern use as it contains hydrogen peroxide
activity as well as the component that comes from the nectar. It is also
reportedly more stable in the presence of heat, light and can tolerate less
oxygen in the event a closed bandage is needed. Unpasteurized honey, as was
used in ancient Rome, should be used because the enzyme in honey that
produces hydrogen peroxide is destroyed by heating and exposure to light so
it should also be stored in a cool place and protected from light. Honey can
be slightly warmed to liquefy it at no more than 37°C. It is interesting to
note that in modern studies no case of infection resulting from the use of
honey has been reported.

Wound Care using Honey:
1. The amount of honey depends on the amount of fluid exuding from the
wound.
2. The various beneficial effects of honey on wound tissues will be reduced
or lost if small amounts of honey become diluted by large amounts of fluid.
The frequency of dressing changes required will depend on how rapidly the
honey is being diluted by fluid.
3. Daily dressing changes are usual however up to three times daily may be
needed. If the dressing sticks to the wound this indicates that more
frequent changes of dressing are needed. Exudation of fluid should be
reduced by the anti-inflammatory action of honey, so less frequent dressing
changes may be needed later - a few days between changes - this will give
the wound a chance to re-epithelialize and heal using the body's own system.
4. More honey is required on deeper infections, to obtain an effective level
of antibacterial activity diffusing deep into the wound tissues. Typically,
20 ml of honey (25 - 30 g, 1 ounce) is used on a 10 cm X 10 cm (4 inch X 4
inch) dressing.
5. Occlusive (waterproof) or absorbent secondary dressings (Hydrocolloids)
are needed to prevent honey oozing out from the wound dressing. (Occlusive
dressings are better as they keep more of the honey in contact with the
wound - absorbent dressings soak the honey away from the wound
6. Dressing pads impregnated with honey are the most convenient way of
applying honey to surface wounds: it is best to spread the honey on the
dressing rather than on the wound.
7. Abscesses, cavities and depressions in the wound bed are filled with
honey before applying the honey dressing pad, so that the honey is in direct
contact with the wound bed.
8. The honey dressings are cut to a size that extends beyond the edges of
the wound and any surrounding inflamed area.

There are many more uses for honey, some I use, others, I wouldn't:

Mercurialis (de Arte Gymnast. Amstel. 4to. 1672, pp2, 3):
"A blind soldier named Valerius Apes, having consulted the oracle, was
informed that he should mix the blood of a white cock with honey, to make up
an ointment to be applied to his eyes, for three consecutive days: he
received his sight, and returned public thanks to the gods."
"Julian appeared lost beyond all hope from a spitting of blood. The god
ordered him to take from the altar some seeds of the pine, and to mix them
with honey, of which mixture he was to eat for three days. He was saved, and
came to thank the gods in presence of the people."

I would not put chicken blood on any open wound or body opening in today's
world. However if one has a sty I could see how a poultice of pure rose
water and honey would help. In antiquity honey had a great reputation in
producing clearer vision; this may also be one of the reasons for its
reputation of endowing the power of divination - so it improves not only the
physical but also the spiritual sight - a meta-magical construct.
Pine seeds with honey are nutritious and contain thiamine, vitamin B1,
pinoleic acid, magnesium, rich in iron (key component in hemoglobin that
oxygen carrying pigment that supplies energy and contains more protein than
any other seed/nut in addition to the highest concentration of Oleic
acid(the stuff that lowers triglycerides) and have anti-inflammatory and
antioxidant action. So Julian surely received some benefit and may have had
an iron deficiency anemia- spitting up blood can be a symptom of anemia.

Most of us have heard of Honey and lemon, or Honey and Rum (or another
alcohol of choice) including Mulsum - all beneficial and all having origins
in ancient times. Oxymel, a mixture of honey, vinegar, salt, and water was
not just used in preparing vegetables was also a cure for throat and ear
problems. Hydromel (when fermented makes mead) and aqua mulsa, a
honey-water, were also used as medicine. A tonic of cinnamon and honey were
used to treat cold and sore throats, the antibacterial properties of
cinnamon are for another time ;)
. Hippocrates considered honey a very good expectorant and said of its
virtues: "It causes heat, cleans sores and ulcers, softens hard ulcers of
the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores." He recommended honey for
difficulty in breathing due to its expectorant qualities: "it causes
spitting." This has credence in modern treatment.
. Dioscorides in Materia Medica often mentions honey as an excellent
medicine in addition to beeswax, propolis and honey- wie. He also praises
the medicinal value of wax, propolis and honey-wine. This also has credence
in modern treatment.
. Cornelius Celsus in De Medicina stated that a physician must heal in a
safe, quick and pleasing manner "tuto, cito et jucunde", which could be best
accomplished with honey.
. Galen recommended the mixing of four parts of honey with one part of gall
of the sea-tortoise which, when dropped into the eyes, would improve the
sight. He also recommended a paste of honey and dead bees for hair growth:
"Take Bees dead in combs, and when they are through dry make them into
powder, mingle them with the honey in which they died and anoint the parts
of the Head that are bald and thin-haired, and you shall see them grow
again."
. Marcellus: "The honey pure and neat wherein the Bees are dead, let that
drop into the eyes; or honey mixed with the ashes of the heads of Bees,
makes the eyes very clear." Today in India they still make a kohl that even
children wear to protect and nourish their eyes, it is made of ash, beeswax,
a touch of camphor and in some cases a touch of honey (although this is
usually ceremonial). It is supposed to make the eyes healthy, clear the
whites and make the eyes shine.
. Pliny also credited honey in which bees have died with the faculty of
relieving dullness of sight and hearing. Pliny burned the bees, mixed their
ashes with honey and used the substance for all kinds of ailments: "Powdered
bees with milk, wine or honey will surely cure dropsy, dissolve gravel and
stones, will open all passages of urine and cure the stopping of the
bladder. Bees pounded with honey cure griping of the belly." Honey can be
soothing to some abdominal pain in small amounts; it can also be a laxative
in larger amounts. Clear fluids are better for stones and bladder problems
though.
. Celsus prescribed raw honey as a laxative and boiled honey as a cure for
diarrhea: "the acrimony is taken away by boyling which wont to move the
belly and to diminish the virtue of the food" (Libr. 3 C. 3). Again, it is
dependant on amounts and how the individual reacts to the honey.
. Claudius Aelianus (Aelian) believed that honey from Pontus cured epilepsy.
I would have to see what else is in that honey, and if perhaps the
"seizures" may have been due to a blood glucose imbalance;)
. Porphyry believed honey had four excellent qualities: 1) nourishing food
2) a good cleanser 3) healing power 4) pleasant due to its sweetness. I
concur.
. Aristoxenus believed anyone who eats honey, spring onions and bread for
his daily breakfast will be free from all diseases for life.

Well this is all I have for today!

Cúrá ut valeás optimé!

Julia





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09
08:10:00
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71042 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Salvete Romans,
 
Ok putting aside politics for the moment lets have some fun!  You must fill in with an appropriate quote OR something of your own.
 
It must start...  Books are.... Here is mine.
 
“Books are the carriers of civilization. Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill.”   Barbara W. Tuchman
 
Valete
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71043 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction
Salve!

I prefer traditional clay, and there are many grades - all need firing in a kiln. However there are the polymers - most have no clay minerals but if you do a bit of searching you can find them - I have a local artisan who I get my mineral/polymer mix from - there is really no difference in appearance - I just like the idea of it. Polymers can also be "fired" in the oven at low heat. However not all polymers are equal:
http://www.sculpey.com/Products/products_polymerclays.htm
I have some regular mineral air dry clay that I am going to try out, it will be ok but it will not have the durability of a kilned piece and the polymer is probably the most durable under most circumstances.
It is also a good idea to construct an armature, I used armatures with Saturnus and Ops to support them - in addition to sticks and a brace and other tools and just about anything I could find and had handy *laughs*. I have a few sets of carving and clay tools also - get at least one basic set of tools, that can be had fairly cheap, maybe $10 or so - less on sale. Make your first piece fairly large because small details are too hard for a beginner - if you want to do facial features, make the face as big as yours - this way you gain experience with the clay and with your technique.

Hope this helps!

Cura ut valeas,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71044 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Roman Medicine
Julia Caecae sal,

Yes Lavender was used for many reasons, in addition to flavoring foods, medicines(antiseptic, healing), purification rituals, insect repellant, scenting the baths, perfumes, skin care. I have a paper on it on my other computer and it will be included in TOV workshop pt 1 in November. It was originally known as nardus, sometimes seen translated as spikenard but eventually it was known as Lavandarius, derived from the Latin lavare "to wash", which you may be familiar with by now;)

I will be adding more here as time permits, so watch for it!

Vale amica,

Julia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Shoshana Hathaway" <shoshanahathaway@...> wrote:
>
> Caeca Juliae sal,
>
> Thank you for this very interesting post. I did know some of this, but
> certainly not all, and not the great use made of honey and beeswax by the
> Romans. I wonder ...was lavender available to the Ancient Romans? As I am
> sure you know, lavender is an excellent help in healing burns, among other
> things, at least in essential oil form.
>
> Vale optime,
> C. Maria Caeca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:19 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Medicine
>
>
> Salvéte Omnes,
>
> Honey~ Focusing mainly on Wound Care and its adaptation to today's medicine.
>
> "Unwashed wool supplies very many remedies...it is applied..with honey to
> old sores. Wounds it heals if dipped in wine or vinegar..yolks of eggs..are
> taken for dysentery with the ash of their shells, poppy juice and wine. It
> is recommended to bathe the eyes with a decoction of the liver and to apply
> the marrow to those that are painful or swollen."
> ~Pliny
>
> The many attributes of Honey were very well known in the Ancient World, for
> its preservative value, its healing value, flavor and health properties.
> Women used honey to soften the skin as facial masks, in lip balm to sweeten
> one's kiss and a touch may have been added to perfumes or even to skin balms
> for obvious reasons. A skin softener from beeswax was also used which was
> made from boiling the beeswax in salt water. Pliny also describes using the
> broth of white beeswax and salt water to feed to those with dysentery. Honey
> was also used for food preservation in Ancient Rome and already was being
> used in embalming in other ancient cultures, although Ancient Roman citizens
> rarely buried their dead.
> Honey suppresses infection in wounds because of its high sugar content
> however due to its antibacterial components dressings do not have to be
> changed as often allowing the patients body to heal itself through its own
> defenses allowing autolytic debridement, re-epithelialization and the
> subsequent healing. Our ancient ancestors knew this through observation and
> success.
> Modern microbiological studies have shown more than one hundred-fold
> differences in the potency of the antibacterial activity of various types of
> honey with best results expected when using a honey with a high level of
> antibacterial activity. Something our ancient ancestors already knew. While
> discussing differences in honeys, Aristotle (384-322 BC) referred to pale
> honey as being "good as a salve for sore eyes and wounds." Dioscorides (c.50
> AD) wrote that pale yellow honey from Attica was the best: "good for all
> rotten and hollow ulcers".
> Today some still use honey with good results however in clinical settings,
> and at home, Hydrocolloids are often used to get similar effects without the
> mess; these are made of cellulose, guar, pectin and gelatin.
> The antibacterial activity of honey is due to hydrogen peroxide generated
> primarily by the action of an enzyme that the bees add to the nectar
> although there are some floral sources that provide additional antibacterial
> components. Honey is effective against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus
> aureus which are the most common causes of infected wounds. Our body tissues
> and serum contain catalase, which is a human enzyme that breaks down
> hydrogen. Catalase does not break down the antibacterial components that
> come from the nectar. The bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in
> honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so care must be taken
> to aerate wounds under wound dressings or in wound cavities. The same bee
> enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the
> acidity of honey is neutralized by body fluids.
> Manuka honey is recommended for modern use as it contains hydrogen peroxide
> activity as well as the component that comes from the nectar. It is also
> reportedly more stable in the presence of heat, light and can tolerate less
> oxygen in the event a closed bandage is needed. Unpasteurized honey, as was
> used in ancient Rome, should be used because the enzyme in honey that
> produces hydrogen peroxide is destroyed by heating and exposure to light so
> it should also be stored in a cool place and protected from light. Honey can
> be slightly warmed to liquefy it at no more than 37°C. It is interesting to
> note that in modern studies no case of infection resulting from the use of
> honey has been reported.
>
> Wound Care using Honey:
> 1. The amount of honey depends on the amount of fluid exuding from the
> wound.
> 2. The various beneficial effects of honey on wound tissues will be reduced
> or lost if small amounts of honey become diluted by large amounts of fluid.
> The frequency of dressing changes required will depend on how rapidly the
> honey is being diluted by fluid.
> 3. Daily dressing changes are usual however up to three times daily may be
> needed. If the dressing sticks to the wound this indicates that more
> frequent changes of dressing are needed. Exudation of fluid should be
> reduced by the anti-inflammatory action of honey, so less frequent dressing
> changes may be needed later - a few days between changes - this will give
> the wound a chance to re-epithelialize and heal using the body's own system.
> 4. More honey is required on deeper infections, to obtain an effective level
> of antibacterial activity diffusing deep into the wound tissues. Typically,
> 20 ml of honey (25 - 30 g, 1 ounce) is used on a 10 cm X 10 cm (4 inch X 4
> inch) dressing.
> 5. Occlusive (waterproof) or absorbent secondary dressings (Hydrocolloids)
> are needed to prevent honey oozing out from the wound dressing. (Occlusive
> dressings are better as they keep more of the honey in contact with the
> wound - absorbent dressings soak the honey away from the wound
> 6. Dressing pads impregnated with honey are the most convenient way of
> applying honey to surface wounds: it is best to spread the honey on the
> dressing rather than on the wound.
> 7. Abscesses, cavities and depressions in the wound bed are filled with
> honey before applying the honey dressing pad, so that the honey is in direct
> contact with the wound bed.
> 8. The honey dressings are cut to a size that extends beyond the edges of
> the wound and any surrounding inflamed area.
>
> There are many more uses for honey, some I use, others, I wouldn't:
>
> Mercurialis (de Arte Gymnast. Amstel. 4to. 1672, pp2, 3):
> "A blind soldier named Valerius Apes, having consulted the oracle, was
> informed that he should mix the blood of a white cock with honey, to make up
> an ointment to be applied to his eyes, for three consecutive days: he
> received his sight, and returned public thanks to the gods."
> "Julian appeared lost beyond all hope from a spitting of blood. The god
> ordered him to take from the altar some seeds of the pine, and to mix them
> with honey, of which mixture he was to eat for three days. He was saved, and
> came to thank the gods in presence of the people."
>
> I would not put chicken blood on any open wound or body opening in today's
> world. However if one has a sty I could see how a poultice of pure rose
> water and honey would help. In antiquity honey had a great reputation in
> producing clearer vision; this may also be one of the reasons for its
> reputation of endowing the power of divination - so it improves not only the
> physical but also the spiritual sight - a meta-magical construct.
> Pine seeds with honey are nutritious and contain thiamine, vitamin B1,
> pinoleic acid, magnesium, rich in iron (key component in hemoglobin that
> oxygen carrying pigment that supplies energy and contains more protein than
> any other seed/nut in addition to the highest concentration of Oleic
> acid(the stuff that lowers triglycerides) and have anti-inflammatory and
> antioxidant action. So Julian surely received some benefit and may have had
> an iron deficiency anemia- spitting up blood can be a symptom of anemia.
>
> Most of us have heard of Honey and lemon, or Honey and Rum (or another
> alcohol of choice) including Mulsum - all beneficial and all having origins
> in ancient times. Oxymel, a mixture of honey, vinegar, salt, and water was
> not just used in preparing vegetables was also a cure for throat and ear
> problems. Hydromel (when fermented makes mead) and aqua mulsa, a
> honey-water, were also used as medicine. A tonic of cinnamon and honey were
> used to treat cold and sore throats, the antibacterial properties of
> cinnamon are for another time ;)
> . Hippocrates considered honey a very good expectorant and said of its
> virtues: "It causes heat, cleans sores and ulcers, softens hard ulcers of
> the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores." He recommended honey for
> difficulty in breathing due to its expectorant qualities: "it causes
> spitting." This has credence in modern treatment.
> . Dioscorides in Materia Medica often mentions honey as an excellent
> medicine in addition to beeswax, propolis and honey- wie. He also praises
> the medicinal value of wax, propolis and honey-wine. This also has credence
> in modern treatment.
> . Cornelius Celsus in De Medicina stated that a physician must heal in a
> safe, quick and pleasing manner "tuto, cito et jucunde", which could be best
> accomplished with honey.
> . Galen recommended the mixing of four parts of honey with one part of gall
> of the sea-tortoise which, when dropped into the eyes, would improve the
> sight. He also recommended a paste of honey and dead bees for hair growth:
> "Take Bees dead in combs, and when they are through dry make them into
> powder, mingle them with the honey in which they died and anoint the parts
> of the Head that are bald and thin-haired, and you shall see them grow
> again."
> . Marcellus: "The honey pure and neat wherein the Bees are dead, let that
> drop into the eyes; or honey mixed with the ashes of the heads of Bees,
> makes the eyes very clear." Today in India they still make a kohl that even
> children wear to protect and nourish their eyes, it is made of ash, beeswax,
> a touch of camphor and in some cases a touch of honey (although this is
> usually ceremonial). It is supposed to make the eyes healthy, clear the
> whites and make the eyes shine.
> . Pliny also credited honey in which bees have died with the faculty of
> relieving dullness of sight and hearing. Pliny burned the bees, mixed their
> ashes with honey and used the substance for all kinds of ailments: "Powdered
> bees with milk, wine or honey will surely cure dropsy, dissolve gravel and
> stones, will open all passages of urine and cure the stopping of the
> bladder. Bees pounded with honey cure griping of the belly." Honey can be
> soothing to some abdominal pain in small amounts; it can also be a laxative
> in larger amounts. Clear fluids are better for stones and bladder problems
> though.
> . Celsus prescribed raw honey as a laxative and boiled honey as a cure for
> diarrhea: "the acrimony is taken away by boyling which wont to move the
> belly and to diminish the virtue of the food" (Libr. 3 C. 3). Again, it is
> dependant on amounts and how the individual reacts to the honey.
> . Claudius Aelianus (Aelian) believed that honey from Pontus cured epilepsy.
> I would have to see what else is in that honey, and if perhaps the
> "seizures" may have been due to a blood glucose imbalance;)
> . Porphyry believed honey had four excellent qualities: 1) nourishing food
> 2) a good cleanser 3) healing power 4) pleasant due to its sweetness. I
> concur.
> . Aristoxenus believed anyone who eats honey, spring onions and bread for
> his daily breakfast will be free from all diseases for life.
>
> Well this is all I have for today!
>
> Cúrá ut valeás optimé!
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09
> 08:10:00
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71045 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Julia Caecae S.P.D.

*laughs* No I avoid the Wheelock text - it gives me anxiety...

I cull most from my own library.

Well - I did think we needed a little of Abigail's wisdom here in Nova Roma;).

Vale optime,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71046 From: Gnaeus Equitius Marinus Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> writes:

> It must start... Books are....

Books are a man's best friend outside of a dog.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.

(With apologies to Groucho Marx for the slight rearrangement of his
classic sentiment.)

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71047 From: (no author) Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: (no subject)
Salve Marine,
 
I love that one too!!!
 
Vale
 
Paulinus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: gawne@...
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:09:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Books are ( fill in the blank)

 
Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> writes:

> It must start... Books are....

Books are a man's best friend outside of a dog.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.

(With apologies to Groucho Marx for the slight rearrangement of his
classic sentiment.)

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71048 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Maior and the BA
Sulla;

Her actions might irritate you, but they can hardly be correlated with a Nazi who assisted in the death of 6 million Jews.  Goebbles was also the chief architect of Kristallnacht.  Your comparison is not justified and your explanation below simply illustrates your rotten character.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Robert <l_cornelius_sulla@...> wrote:
 

Considering the fact that I had posted it on the BA - and it was Maior herself who harped it on to the ML. Perhaps you should find her own actions neither funny or acceptable. All I did was stand by my statement that I view her precisely as Goebbels. As a Jew, I have no problem noting the similarity of her actions and the actions of Joseph Goebbels. It is up to her to reflect on those similarities and to see if there needs to be reformative actions taken to prevent such similarities from shining through. Look at it as a service. We are trying to help cut through the BS so that she can improve her life and make a better contribution to the community.

Vale,

Sulla 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71049 From: Bruno Cantermi Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Salvete Omnes!
 
Here's my one, created by myself:
 
Books are the greatest source of wisdom that ever existed in the face of earth.
 
Vale,
 
LVSITANVS.SPD.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Books are ( fill in the blank)

 

Salve Marine,
 
I love that one too!!!
 
Vale
 
Paulinus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com
From: gawne@cesmail. net
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 17:09:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Books are ( fill in the blank)

 
Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@msn. com> writes:

> It must start... Books are....

Books are a man's best friend outside of a dog.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.

(With apologies to Groucho Marx for the slight rearrangement of his
classic sentiment.)

CN-EQVIT-MARINVS



__________ NOD32 4494 (20091009) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71050 From: ugo21121970 Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher
<spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> Ok putting aside politics for the moment lets have some fun! You must
fill in with an appropriate quote OR something of your own.
>
>
>
> It must start... Books are....

This is a slogan for a campaign about book reading by the Italian
Ministry of Culture, but I find it quite poetical, so I'm quoting it
here:

"Books are doors which open into worlds of boundless imagination -
whenever you want them to."

Bene vale, et valete,
P. Annæus Constantinus Placidus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71051 From: David Alan Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: My Introduction + For Julia
Salve Julia,
 
  Thanks for the tips. I'll try them out. I never worked with armature before, maybe that's why the bodies of my figures keep coming out flat, or maybe it's me that have no idea of dimension xD. Did you go through this problem too when you were a beginner? Also, I never fired any of the sculptures before, they've all been air dried. Can it be done in a regular kitchen oven, or to what temperature do I heat them (could you tell me in Celsus please, if you can't that's fine)? Do you put any type of gloss in yours when it's done? I'm talking about the traditional clay, I'm pretty sure we don't have this polymer clay here. Also, last year, when I was in a struggle with myself as to what branch of paganism to follow, I was very interested in Norse paganism, and I was able to make a pretty decent statue of Thor, with a very realistic head and a nice facial expression. Too bad I accidently broke : (.  I'm not a beginner exactly. I used to do this when I was a child and I was able to do some nice figures, but alas, I stopped when I became a teenager thinking it was just a child's game. I am trying to re-learn it now and I got a loooong way to go. Thanks for your help


                                                                         M. Iulius Cicurinus

 

--- Em sex, 9/10/09, luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...> escreveu:

De: luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...>
Assunto: [Nova-Roma] Re: My Introduction
Para: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sexta-feira, 9 de Outubro de 2009, 20:48

 

Salve!

I prefer traditional clay, and there are many grades - all need firing in a kiln. However there are the polymers - most have no clay minerals but if you do a bit of searching you can find them - I have a local artisan who I get my mineral/polymer mix from - there is really no difference in appearance - I just like the idea of it. Polymers can also be "fired" in the oven at low heat. However not all polymers are equal:
http://www.sculpey. com/Products/ products_ polymerclays. htm
I have some regular mineral air dry clay that I am going to try out, it will be ok but it will not have the durability of a kilned piece and the polymer is probably the most durable under most circumstances.
It is also a good idea to construct an armature, I used armatures with Saturnus and Ops to support them - in addition to sticks and a brace and other tools and just about anything I could find and had handy *laughs*. I have a few sets of carving and clay tools also - get at least one basic set of tools, that can be had fairly cheap, maybe $10 or so - less on sale. Make your first piece fairly large because small details are too hard for a beginner - if you want to do facial features, make the face as big as yours - this way you gain experience with the clay and with your technique.

Hope this helps!

Cura ut valeas,

Julia



Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 - Celebridades - Música - Esportes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71052 From: Solomon Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Citizen
Salvete Omnes,
I was supposed to become a citizen in September and have not heard anything from anyone. Can someone please point me in the right direction?
Optime Valete,

Quintus Decius Atellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71053 From: David Kling Date: 2009-10-09
Subject: Re: Citizen
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Quinto Decio Atello salutem dicit

The database is currently undergoing a server transfer, so the censores and their scribae do not have access to the database.  Sorry for the inconvenience.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
(Junior) Censor

On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Solomon <decius_atellus@...> wrote:
 

Salvete Omnes,
I was supposed to become a citizen in September and have not heard anything from anyone. Can someone please point me in the right direction?
Optime Valete,

Quintus Decius Atellus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71054 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VI Idus Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

"When the result of this mission was reported in Rome, all other
matters were at once laid aside and the fetials1 were sent to demand
redress. This was refused and the senate decreed that a formal
declaration of war should be submitted for the approval of the people
as soon as possible. The people ratified the action of the senate and
ordered the two consuls to start, each with his army; Valerius for
Campania, where he fixed his camp at Mount Glaurus, whilst Cornelius
advanced into Samnium and encamped at Saticula. Valerius was the
first to come into touch with the Samnite legions. They had marched
into Cam- pania because they thought that this would be the main
theatre of war, and they were burning to wreak their rage on the
Campanians who had been so ready first to help others against them and
then to summon help for themselves. As soon as they saw the Roman
camp, they one and all clamoured for the signal for battle to be given
by their leaders; they declared that the Romans would have the same
luck in helping the Campanians that the Campanians had had in helping
the Sidicines.

For a few days Valerius confined himself to skirmishes, with the
object of testing the enemy's strength. At length he put out the
signal for battle and spoke a few words of encouragement to his men.
He told them not to let themselves be daunted by a new war or a new
enemy, for the further they carried their arms from the City the more
unwarlike were the nations whom they approached. They were not to
measure the courage of the Samnites by the defeats they had inflicted
on the Sidicines and the Campanians; whenever two nations fought
together, whatever the qualities they possessed, one side must
necessarily be vanquished. There was no doubt that as far as the Cam-
panians were concerned they owed their defeats more to their want of
hardihood and the weakening effects of excessive luxury than to the
strength of their enemies. What could two successful wars an the part
of the Samnites through all those centuries weigh against the many
brilliant achievements at the Roman people, who reckoned up almost
more triumphs than years since the foundation of their City, who had
subdued by the might at their arms all the surrounding
nations--Sabines, Etruscans, Latins, Hernici, Aequi, Volscians, and
Auruncans--who had slain the Gauls in so many battles and driven them
at last to their ships? His men must not only go into action in full
reliance upon their own courage and warlike reputation, but they must
also remember under whose auspices and generalship they were going to
fight, whether under a man who is only to be listened to provided he
is a big talker, courageous only in words, ignorant of a soldier's
work, or under one who himself knows how to handle weapons, who can
show himself in the front, and do his duty in the melee at battle. 'I
want you, soldiers,' he continued, 'to follow my deeds not my words,
and to look to me not only for the word at command but also for
example. It was not by party struggles nor by the intrigues so common
amongst the nobles but by my own right hand that I won three
consulships and attained the highest reputation. There was a time when
it might have been said to me, 'Yes, for you were a patrician
descended from the liberators at our country, and your family held the
consulship in the very year when this City first possessed consuls.'
Now, however, the consulship is open to you, plebeians, as much as to
us who are patricians; it is not the reward of high birth as it once
was, but of personal merit. Look forward then, soldiers, to securing
all the highest honours! If with the sanction of the gods you men have
given me this new name at Corvinus, I have not for- gotten the old
cognomen of our family; I have not forgotten that I am a Publicola. I
always study and always have studied the interests of the Roman plebs,
both at home and in the field, whether as a private citizen or holding
public office, whether as military tribune or as consul. I have been
con- sistent to this aim in all my successive consulships. And now for
what is immediately before us: go on with the help at heaven, and win
with me for the first time a triumph over your new foes--the
Samnites.' " - Livy, History of Rome 7.32



"Come, gracious and kindly
Mistresses, into your sacred glade,
where it is not meet for men to see
the solemn rites of the two goddesses,
where, by torchlight, they reveal their immortal visage.

Come, approach, we entreat you,
O holiest Thesmophoroi,
if ever before you heeded and
came. Arrive here, now,
we beseech you, for our sake." - Aristophanes Thesmophoriazousae 1148-59

"Concerning Demeter's initiation rite, which the Greeks call
thesmophoria, let a holy silence be placed on it, except to the extent
it is religiously lawful to speak. Danaus' daughters were the ones who
brought this rite out of Egypt and taught it to Pelasgian women. After
all the peoples of the Peloponnesus had been driven out by the
Dorians, the rite was lost. Only those of the Peloponnesians who were
left behind and the Arcadians, who were not driven out, preserved it."
- Herodotus 2.171

"Bees: the priestesses of Demeter. Demeter herself says in
Apollodorus' first book, 'She brought the basket to the young women
along with Persephone's loom and deeds. Arriving at Paros, she was
entertained at King Melissos' court and bestowed upon his sixty
daughters the gift of Persephone's loom. She also imparted to them
first of all her sufferings concerning Persephone and her mysteries.
From this, henceforth, the women celebrating the Thesmophoria were
called 'bees.' " - Apollodorus of Athens, Fragmenta Historicorum
Graecorum 244.F.89

On this day in ancient Greece the celebration of the Thesmophoria
began. The festival of the Thesmophoria took place in the Athenian
month Pyanepsion (approximately October) and was reserved for women
only. The association of this festival with women was natural to the
Greeks, because they saw agricultural and human fertility as all part
of the same process of reproduction. Women no doubt enjoyed this
holiday because they were able to get out of the house and engage in
religious ritual that (at least in very primitive times) was crucial
to survival. The ritual itself involved retrieving the decayed remains
of sacrificed piglets and dough in the shape of snakes and human
penises, which women had buried undergournd in a late spring festival.
These remains1 were later sprinkled over the fields to promote
fertility. The most widely practiced rites throughout the various
Greek city-states was the festival known as the Thesmophoria. These
rites, considered to be among the most ancient practiced in Greece,
were conducted only by women and honored Demeter, the goddess of
agriculture, and her daughter Persephone/Kore. The Thesmophoria was
traditionally celebrated as a three-day and three-night festival and
consisted of three distinct parts: the Anodos, the opening day
procession up to the Thesmophorion building during which the
participants bring the sacrifices and other cult implements up to the
hill of the Pnyx; the Nesteia, the ritual fasting which comprised the
second day of the ritual; and the sacrifice and feasting that
dominated the third and final day. Throughout the festival, the women
reenact aspects of the myth of Demeter as she searched for her
abducted daughter, ranging from ritualized mouring to celebration as
the reunion of the goddess and her daughter revive the fertility of
the earth. The celebrants camped out for three days and two nights in
an area probably near the Pnyx. On the second day, they fasted and
sat on the ground, perhaps as an act of mourning in imitation of
Demeter, the grain goddess, who refused to eat when Hades stole her
daughter. They also shouted verbal abuse at each other (typical of
agricultural festivals) and struck each other with straps made of
bark. The third day was called Kalligeneia ("bearer of fair
offspring") in honor of Demeter.



"The Muslims planned to go to Tours to destroy the Church of St.
Martin, the city, and the whole country. Then came against them the
glorious Prince Charles, at the head of his whole force. He drew up
his host, and he fought as fiercely as the hungry wolf falls upon the
stag. By the grace of Our Lord, he wrought a great slaughter upon the
enemies of Christian faith, so that---as history bears witness---he
slew in that battle 300,000 men, likewise their king by name
Abderrahman. Then was he [Charles] first called "Martel," for as a
hammer of iron, of steel, and of every other metal, even so he dashed:
and smote in the battle all his enemies. And what was the greatest
marvel of all, he only lost in that battle 1500 men. The tents and
harness [of the enemy] were taken; and whatever else they possessed
became a prey to him and his followers. Eudes, Duke of Aquitaine,
being now reconciled with Prince Charles Martel, later slew as many of
the Saracens as he could find who had escaped from the battle." -
Chronicle of St. Denis

On this day in A.D. 732 the Battle of Tours was fought between forces
under the Frankish leader Charles Martel and an Islamic army led by
Emir Abd er Rahman. During the battle, the Franks defeated the Islamic
army and Emir Abd er Rahman was killed. This battle stopped the
northward advance of Islam from the Iberian peninsula, and is
considered by most historians to be of great historical importance in
that it may have halted the invasion of Europe by Muslims and
preserved Christianity as the controlling faith during a period in
which Islam was overrunning the remains of the old Roman and Persian
Empires. Christian contemporaries, from Bede to Theophanes carefully
recorded the battle and were keen to spell out what they saw as its
implications. Later scholars, such as Edward Gibbon, would contend
that had Martel fallen the Moors would have easily conquered a
divided Europe. Gibbon wrote:

"A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Qur'an would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Muhammed."

Some modern assessments of the battle's impact have backed away from the extreme of Gibbon's position, but Gibbons's basic conjecture is supported by other historians.

Moreover, given the importance they placed on the death of Rahman and
the defeat in Gaul, and the subsequent defeat and destruction of
Muslim bases in what is now France, it is likely that this battle did
have great importance in stopping westward Islamic expansion. Gibbons and his generation of historians are probably more correct than the contemporary view that this battle lacked major historical impact. Arab histories written during that period and for the next several centuries make clear that Rahman's defeat and death was regarded, and rightly so, as a catastrophe of major proportions. Their own words record it best: (translated from Arabic) "This deadly defeat of the Moslems, and the loss of the great leader and good cavalier, Abderrahman, took place in the hundred and fifteenth year." Had Martel fallen at Tours the long term implications for European Christianity would likely have been devastating.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71055 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Latin Phrase of the Day
Salvete Romans,
 
 
Laudant illa, sed ista legunt - Some (writing) is praised, but other is read. (Martialis)
 
 
Valete,
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71056 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
 
> "The Muslims planned to go to Tours to destroy the
Church of St.
> Martin, the city, and the whole country.
 
It is not a Roman memory. It is a victory of Charles Martel, the maior of the palace of the king Thierry IV, near Poitiers against the Maures, a long time after the fall of the Roman Empire in occident, not at all a victory of the Roman legions.
 
Vale.
C. Petronius Dexter
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71057 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
Personally speaking........ Books are - my drug of choice :-)

Flavia Lucilla Merula
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71058 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct.
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Salve!

Very good - I see that you understand how time works :)

If you'd like to add your own "Roman memor[ies]", Dexter, please feel free to do so.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > "The Muslims planned to go to Tours to destroy the Church of St.
> > Martin, the city, and the whole country.
>
> It is not a Roman memory. It is a victory of Charles Martel, the maior of the palace of the king Thierry IV, near Poitiers against the Maures, a long time after the fall of the Roman Empire in occident, not at all a victory of the Roman legions.
>
> Vale.
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71059 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2009-10-10
Subject: Re: a.d. VI Id. Oct. - pls care the off-topic developments!
Praetor Albucius Catoni sen. s.d.

Petronius is right.

The long part of your message on the victory of Poitiers (732 AD!) has nothing to do in our forum romanum. Why not evoking the seige of Wien by the Ottomans? Such development may be lived by some of our contributors as a celebration as the Christian-Western civilization vs. the Arabo-Muslim one.

Please thus, when you consider that your postings need to come, for the best information of our members, in addition to those provided on our Roman ephemerid by our Pontifex maximus, watch not being off-topic. Stay please in the boundaries of Roman history, or explain our members the link between Rome and your topic. Thus, you could have explained your readers the link between the Thesmophoria, that you present in your post, and Rome and the religio romana.

Thanks for your understanding, Cato, et vale.



P. Memmius Albucius
praetor



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
>
> Salve!
>
> Very good - I see that you understand how time works :)
>
> If you'd like to add your own "Roman memor[ies]", Dexter, please feel free to do so.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
> >
> > > "The Muslims planned to go to Tours to destroy the Church of St.
> > > Martin, the city, and the whole country.
> >
> > It is not a Roman memory. It is a victory of Charles Martel, the maior of the palace of the king Thierry IV, near Poitiers against the Maures, a long time after the fall of the Roman Empire in occident, not at all a victory of the Roman legions.
> >
> > Vale.
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71060 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: a.d. V Id. Oct.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Salvete omnes!

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Idus Octobris; haec dies nefastus publicus est.

"Nowhere was there ever a general who endeared himself more to his
soldiers by cheerfully sharing every duty with the humblest of his men
In the military sports when the soldiers got up contests of speed and
strength among them- selves he was equally ready to win or to lose,
and never thought any man unworthy to be his antagonist. He showed
practical kindness as circumstances required; in his language he was
not less mindful of other men's liberty than of his own dignity, and
what made him most popular was that he displayed the same qualities in
discharging the duties of his office which he had shown as a candidate
for it. Following up their commander's words, the whole army marched
out of camp with extraordinary alacrity. In no battle that was ever
fought did men engage with strength more equally matched, or more
assured hopes of victory on both sides, or a stronger spirit of
self-confidence unaccompanied, however, by any feeling of contempt for
their opponents. The fighting temper of the Samnites was roused by
their recent achieve- ments and the double victory won a few days
previously; the Romans on the other hand were inspired by their
glorious record of four centuries of victory reaching back to the
founda- tion of the City. But each side felt some anxiety at meeting a
new and untried foe. The battle was an index to their feelings; for
some time they fought so resolutely that neither line showed any signs
of giving way. At length the consul, seeing that the Samnites could
not be repulsed by steady fighting, determined to try the effect of a
sudden shock and launched his cavalry at them. This made no
impression, and as he watched them wheeling round in the narrow space
between the opposing armies after their ineffective charge, having
utterly failed to penetrate the enemy's line, he rode back to the
front ranks of the legions, and after dismounting said: `Soldiers,
this task belongs to us infantry. Come on! Wherever you see me making
my way through the enemy's lines with my sword follow, and each of you
do his best to cut down those in front. All that ground which is now
glittering with uplifted spears you shall see cleared by a vast
carnage.' During those words the cavalry, at the consul's order,
retired an both flanks, leaving the centre clear for the legions. The
consul led the charge, and slew the first man he engaged with. Fired
at the sight, every man, right and left, charged straight forward and
began a fight to be re- membered. The Samnites did not flinch, though
they were receiving more wounds than they inflicted.

The battle had now gone on for a considerable time; there was a
terrible slaughter round the Samnite standards but no signs of flight
anywhere, so resolved were they that death alone should be their
conqueror. The Romans began to find their strength failing through
fatigue and not much daylight remained, so goaded on by rage and
disappointment they flung themselves madly upon their foe. Then for
the first time the Samnites were seen to be giving ground and
preparing to flee; they were being taken prisoners and killed in all
directions, and not many would have survived had not night put an end
to what was becoming a victory rather than a battle. The Romans
admitted that they had never fought with a more obstinate enemy, and
when the Samnites were asked what it was that first turned them, with
all their determination, to flight, they said that the eyes of the
Romans looked like fire, and their faces and expression like those of
madmen; it was this more than anything else which filled them with
terror. This terror showed itself not only in the result of the battle
but also in their hurrying away in the night. The next day the Romans
took possession of their empty camp, and all the popula- tion of Capua
came out there to congratulate them." - Livy, History of Rome 7.33


"Octobri mense Meditrinalia dies dictus a medendo, quod Flaccus flamen
Martialis dicebat hoc die solitum vinum novum et vetus libari et
degustari medicamenti causa; quod facere solent etiam nunc multi cum
dicunt: 'Novum vetus vinum bibo: novo veteri morbo medeor'."
(The day of the Meditrinalia in month October was named from 'mederi'
[to be healed], as Flamen Martialis Flaccus used to say that on this
day it was the custom to make a libation of new and old wine and to
taste it in order to be healed. Many are accustomed to do this even
now when they say: "Wine new and old I drink, of illness new and old
I'm cured.") - Varro, De Lingua Latina 6.21


"Si deus si dea es qui Meditrinaliae tutelam habet, quod tibi hodie
fieri oportet libationem vini novi et veteri, eius rei ergo macte hoc
vino novo et veteri pollucenda esto." (Be you god or goddess who has
the tutelage of the Meditrinalia, as it is proper to offer to you
today a libation of wine new and old, for sake of this shall you be
honoured by this offering of wine new and old.)- A. Gryllus Graecus
(NR) in honor of the Meditrinalia

Today is the first day of the Meditrinalia; the celebration of the new
wine harvest. In drinking the new wine it was customary to pronounce
the words: "vetus novum vinum bibo, novo veteri morbo medeor." It is
thought that this celebration was initially dedicated to Iuppiter
Himself, although a shadowy "Meditrina" ("healer") was associated with
the festival by the 2nd century grammarian Sextus Pompeius Festus, on
the basis of which She is asserted to be the Roman goddess of health,
longevity and wine in some modern sources. Iuppiter's involvement can
be construed from Ovid's words in the Fasti describing the Vinalia of
a.d. IX Kal. Maius:

"And so did Aeneas, and addressed Jove:
'The enemy's pledged his vine-crop to the Tyrrhenian king:
Jupiter, you shall have the wine from the Latin vines!'
The nobler prayer succeeded: huge Mezentius died,
And struck the ground, heart filled with indignation.
Autumn came, dyed with the trodden grapes:
The wine, justly owed to Jupiter, was paid."

There were several other Roman festivals associated with the
cultivation of the vine and the production of wine. The Liberalia
(a.d. XVI Kal. Apr.) honored Liber Pater and his consort Libera,
Italian deities associated with fertility of the fields and the
cultivation of the vine, though not necessarily with the production of
wine. The Vinalia Priora (a.d. IX Kal. Maius), also known at the
Vinalia Urbana, celebrated the production of wine by opening casks
from the previous year and pouring a libation (calpar) to Iuppiter.
The Vinalia Rustica (a.d. XIV Kal. Sept.), also known as the Vinalia
Altera, celebrated the start of the grape harvest, in which the first
grapes were broken off the vine by the flamen dialis.

Valete bene and IO MEDITRINALIA!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71061 From: M•IVL• SEVERVS Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Ethics
Censor Paulinus,
 
You have all the right to believe that I am ineffective because I am ineffective. What a wonderful reasoning, full of wisdom and logic!
I do believe that you are partisan, biased, and highly ineffective as Censor. So be it.
And I also believe that Nova Roma needs peace.
 
Vale,
 
M•IVL•SEVERVS
CONSVL•NOVÆ•ROMÆ

SENATOR
CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71062 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Latin phrase of the day.
Salvete,
 
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus - We are slaves of the law so that we may be able to be free. (Cicero)
 
Valete,
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71063 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
L. Iulia Aquila omnibusque in foro SPD

Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus - We are slaves of the law so that we may be able to be free. (Cicero)

Interesting choice of quotes, a quote that is a two edged sword and one that Cicero delivered with a sense of – irony. It is a quote those who wish to uphold the exact letter of the law should heed as to do this is upholding law without the necessary judgment of the Roman citizens. Part of this is perception, much of it is history but a greater consideration is the exact equation of the quote in which it gives no praise to the exact unyielding letter of the law. An argument we have seen on the ML for months now - even as far as dissecting an adjective.

Cicero states :"We are slaves of the law..." which suggests at first glance that the citizens of Rome were slaves to a greater influence, the laws that made Rome great and certainly a privilege to be a citizen of. The laws formulated by the Senate (with influence from the Dignitaries, Officials which were often one and the same) were created to respect and protect the foundation of Rome and in the best interests of its people in which the freedoms of the citizens of Rome were protected and safeguarded "...in order that we may be able to be free."

But this is not exactly what Cicero meant - he was, as I alreday mentioned, being - ironic.

Now I understand those who argued over a key word or phrase, sticking to the letter of the law, may have thought they were acting "in the best interest" of the Novi Romani – but as I was reminded by one of our Senators around this time last year – we must all be careful when speaking "in the best interest" of any group of people.
Bear in mind Cicero's – ironic – quote was aimed at the Senate, at the upper and middle classes, the dignitaries, and in our case, those are mainly the Senate. This is an admonishment to those who created the laws, particularly the problematic laws we have here in NR. It is contradictory to call for a complete revision of laws yet create a argument regarding one word or phrase in defense of a law which will work towards the goals of those Senators, those dignitaries, presenting the argument. This is part of the contradiction Cicero – ironically – referred to in this quote – a quote that is presented to Law students in there education. Such action of the Senate, dissecting a word or phrase of a law to implement it to the letter serves not those who are outside the Senate or Magistrates, but proves that those dignitaries dictate the actions of the people, keeping them in bondage, directly through laws or through "tradition."
In effect, by choosing the letter of the law over consideration and judgment of the law can be seen as a demonstration that the Senate owns the Novi Romani who must obey the law as it was created by those who clearly admit mistakes and inadequacy in writing such laws in the past.
Obeying such laws makes no one free.
Because the law defines freedom, Cicero's ironic statement regarding `subjecting ourselves to the law will set us free' is a contradiction of the meaning of the very "word" freedom- or what it is to be free.

As in ancient Rome, the citizens of NR, who hold no office, who are not in the Senate or Magistrates, have made little to no contribution in creating our laws. I would caution about using the term TPTB, as from the perception of those outside the Senate or Magistrates - those Senators and Officials who use the term TPTB - are also TPTB. It is the entire body, without exception, that this quote was directed to by Cicero. By obeying the Laws, the average (meaning those not in the Senate, or an Official) citizen were imprisoned by these laws at the whim of the Senate and Magistrates. By following such laws negates an average Roman citizens' freedom because freedom means the ability to be free and make ones own choices.
So, in essence, in ancient Rome the average citizen was expected to adhere to ideals they had no part in creating and the Senate and Officials established laws to serve their own needs and so it is said that most citizens were not only enslaved to the laws but were kept enslaved by the laws.

We would not want this in NR surely.

Of course I am sure the poster knew of the true – ironic – meaning of this quote.

I would like to add that I posted this view for a deeper consideration and not to attack anyone. This is just a simple offering from an average citizen.

Optimé valé in cúrá deorum

L. Iulia Aquila


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salvete,
>
>
>
> Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus - We are slaves of the law so that we may be able to be free. (Cicero)
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71064 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: My Introduction + For Julia
Salve Cousin!

I answered you query via the email you sent, in privatum!

If I can be of any more service to you please do not hesitate to ask!


Bene vale in pacem Veneris

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71065 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Salve Iulia Aquila,
 
Very nice post. Thanks.  BTW you are far from "an average citizen".
 
Vale
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus

 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: dis_pensible@...
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:07:10 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin phrase of the day.

 
L. Iulia Aquila omnibusque in foro SPD

Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus - We are slaves of the law so that we may be able to be free. (Cicero)

Interesting choice of quotes, a quote that is a two edged sword and one that Cicero delivered with a sense of – irony. It is a quote those who wish to uphold the exact letter of the law should heed as to do this is upholding law without the necessary judgment of the Roman citizens. Part of this is perception, much of it is history but a greater consideration is the exact equation of the quote in which it gives no praise to the exact unyielding letter of the law. An argument we have seen on the ML for months now - even as far as dissecting an adjective.

Cicero states :"We are slaves of the law..." which suggests at first glance that the citizens of Rome were slaves to a greater influence, the laws that made Rome great and certainly a privilege to be a citizen of. The laws formulated by the Senate (with influence from the Dignitaries, Officials which were often one and the same) were created to respect and protect the foundation of Rome and in the best interests of its people in which the freedoms of the citizens of Rome were protected and safeguarded "...in order that we may be able to be free."

But this is not exactly what Cicero meant - he was, as I alreday mentioned, being - ironic.

Now I understand those who argued over a key word or phrase, sticking to the letter of the law, may have thought they were acting "in the best interest" of the Novi Romani – but as I was reminded by one of our Senators around this time last year – we must all be careful when speaking "in the best interest" of any group of people.
Bear in mind Cicero's – ironic – quote was aimed at the Senate, at the upper and middle classes, the dignitaries, and in our case, those are mainly the Senate. This is an admonishment to those who created the laws, particularly the problematic laws we have here in NR. It is contradictory to call for a complete revision of laws yet create a argument regarding one word or phrase in defense of a law which will work towards the goals of those Senators, those dignitaries, presenting the argument. This is part of the contradiction Cicero – ironically – referred to in this quote – a quote that is presented to Law students in there education. Such action of the Senate, dissecting a word or phrase of a law to implement it to the letter serves not those who are outside the Senate or Magistrates, but proves that those dignitaries dictate the actions of the people, keeping them in bondage, directly through laws or through "tradition."
In effect, by choosing the letter of the law over consideration and judgment of the law can be seen as a demonstration that the Senate owns the Novi Romani who must obey the law as it was created by those who clearly admit mistakes and inadequacy in writing such laws in the past.
Obeying such laws makes no one free.
Because the law defines freedom, Cicero's ironic statement regarding `subjecting ourselves to the law will set us free' is a contradiction of the meaning of the very "word" freedom- or what it is to be free.

As in ancient Rome, the citizens of NR, who hold no office, who are not in the Senate or Magistrates, have made little to no contribution in creating our laws. I would caution about using the term TPTB, as from the perception of those outside the Senate or Magistrates - those Senators and Officials who use the term TPTB - are also TPTB. It is the entire body, without exception, that this quote was directed to by Cicero. By obeying the Laws, the average (meaning those not in the Senate, or an Official) citizen were imprisoned by these laws at the whim of the Senate and Magistrates. By following such laws negates an average Roman citizens' freedom because freedom means the ability to be free and make ones own choices.
So, in essence, in ancient Rome the average citizen was expected to adhere to ideals they had no part in creating and the Senate and Officials established laws to serve their own needs and so it is said that most citizens were not only enslaved to the laws but were kept enslaved by the laws.

We would not want this in NR surely.

Of course I am sure the poster knew of the true – ironic – meaning of this quote.

I would like to add that I posted this view for a deeper consideration and not to attack anyone. This is just a simple offering from an average citizen.

Optimé valé in cúrá deorum

L. Iulia Aquila

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... > wrote:
>
>
> Salvete,
>
>
>
> Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus - We are slaves of the law so that we may be able to be free. (Cicero)
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71066 From: M.C.C. Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: MEMENTO: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
I hereby call for candidates to stand for election to the ordinary
magistracies of the Comitia Centuriata and the Comitia Populi Tributa.

Anyone wishing to serve in any of these positions must have been a
citizen for at least six months by Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXIII (January 1st,
2010) and be an assiduus (tax-paying) citizen.

I will convene the comitia for the elections at a later time in
November, but candidates are welcome to announce themselves and begin
campaigning if they wish.

All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand
for office directly by sending a message to curiatius-complutensis at
yahoo dot es in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the
word "candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me
your full Nova Roman name and the office for which you will campaign.
Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be
accepted. You must write to me directly.

Candidacies will be accepted until 3 November 2009 (18.00 hrs CET Rome;
12.00 hrs EST Philadelphia).

The contio is tentatively scheduled to begin on 9 November, with the
elections to follow tentatively beginning on 15 November.

On behalf of the Res Publica Libera Senatus Populique Novae Romae I,
Marcus Curiatius Complutensis, Senior Consul, hereby issue this call for
candidates for the following offices:

I CENSOR: Must be at least 27 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January
1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul,
praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius
(formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator
differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.

II CONSULS: Must be at least 27 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January
1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul,
praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius
(formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator
differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.

II PRAETORS: Must be at least 25 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January
1st, 2010). Must already have served at least six months as a consul,
praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius
(formerly curator araneae), editor commentariorum (formerly curator
differum), rogator, or provincial governor. Must be assiduus.

II CURULE AEDILES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763
(January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.

VIII QUAESTORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763
(January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.
OM

II ROGATORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763
(January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.


IV DIRIBITORES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763
(January 1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.

II CUSTODES: Must be at least 21 years old as of Kal. Ian. 2763 (January
1st, 2010). Must be assiduus.

Datum sub manu mea ante diem V Nonas Octobris M. Curiatio Complutensis
M. Iulio Severo consulibus, in anno AUC MMDCCLXII.


M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
CONSVL NOVAE ROMAE
CONSVL HISPANIAE

NOVA ROMA

-------------------------------------------

ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71067 From: Vladimir Popov Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Breve tempus aetatis satis longum est ad bene honesteque vivendum.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71069 From: Cato Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: MEMENTO: CALL FOR CANDIDATES
Cato Iuliae Aquilae omnibusque in foro ASPD

Salvete!

First, nice news about Neptunus! and thank you again :)

Now, I agree that your speech is very well-presented and thoughtful. I do, however - stop smiling - disagree to a certain degree.

"At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." - Aristotle

Being a "slave to the law so that we are free" can mean quite exactly what it appears to mean. As a whole society - a res publica - we submit ourselves to a greater contract, a more all-encompassing set of societal rules (the law) so that individuals within that society may enjoy greater personal freedom.

When those rules are abrogated or ignored by those in power, a response is natural - we have agreed to abide by these rules and when they are broken the conract between us not only as individuals but us as a community. Cicero's own definition of what makes a respublica - common law and common goals - make this clear. In order to truly exhibit the basics of a respublica, we do not simply need a common goal. We also need common law. Common law means that we *agree*
to be subject to it, because that subjection - submission - "slavery" if we must - makes the community a respublica.


You may be influenced by a reaction as well to something that Einstein once commented on. He said:

"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

This is precisely the case in Nova Roma. We are saddled with some laws - ones that I have refused to use and have relentlessly advocated repealing - that we simply cannot enforce. We have little, if any, way of enforcing our own law short of moderation and banishment/exile.

With this in mind, if we see the laws that *can* be obeyed reasonably and fully being tossed aside for expedience of any kind (personal, political) it brings out the nit-picking kind of activity for which you evidence such dislike - and which, in truth, is pretty dislikeable. But if we let small laws be ignored, and then larger ones, and larger ones, until finally the very basis of the community itself - one of the very elements that makes it a Respublica - is tossed aside because it hinders an individual's or group's hold on authority and power within our community...

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71070 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day.
Iulia Aquila Equitio Catoni sal,

Yes it is very good news about Neptunus and I am glad you are pleased! And you are very welcome!

Cato> Now, I agree that your speech is very well-presented and thoughtful. I do, however - stop smiling - disagree to a certain degree.

But I cannot help but continue to smile because I expected a response from you and so I am not disappointed. Had you not disagreed there would not have been a point to the discussion.

Cato> "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." - Aristotle

Let me preface this paragraph by saying that using Aristotle is probably not the best way to support Cicero because it is well known to those who study them that they did not think alike, were from different cultures and different eras. To go into this is more time than I have, but look it up – you will soon know what I am getting at. Perceptions amice, perceptions. Cicero's philosophy was a synthesis of the best elements of the Academics such as Plato, the Stoics notion of natural law and the Peripatetics (Aristole, et followers) for a deeper understanding of virtues. Cicero was a rhetorician with a philosophic temperament: possessing a Romanized Stoicism tempered by the turbulent upheaval of the end of the declining Republic to what became the Roman Empire.

Cato> Being a "slave to the law so that we are free" can mean quite exactly what it appears to mean. As a whole society - a res publica - we submit ourselves to a greater contract, a more all-encompassing set of societal rules (the law) so that individuals within that society may enjoy greater personal freedom.

But Cicero did not mean that. The irony was understood when he made the statement in ancient Rome and throughout the ages and in modern times by scholars. In both philosophy and law curriculums.
Check out, to name a few: Matthew Fox's "Cicero's Philosophy of History" 2007 Oxford University Press; David Taylor's "Cicero and Rome" 1991 Nelson Thornes Ltd; Montague Brown's "The quest for moral foundations: an introduction to ethics" 2000 Georgetown University Press; Anthony Trollopes's "Life of Cicero" (1880) 1980 Ayer Co. Publishers; "The Roman Mind; Studies in the history of thought from Cicero to Marcus Aurelius", 1968, Norton and Company Inc; David Johnston's "Roman Law in Context" 1999 Cambridge University Press.
The operative word is in "context."
To change the meaning of Cicero's ironic statement is to take it out of context.
To take it out of context could be construed to manipulating words to one's own purposes.
In this case it goes beyond perceptions and interpretations as the meaning is clear because Cicero made it so.

Cato> When those rules are abrogated or ignored by those in power, a response is natural - we have agreed to abide by these rules and when they are broken the conract between us not only as individuals but us as a community. Cicero's own definition of what makes a respublica - common law and common goals - make this clear. In order to truly exhibit the basics of a respublica, we do not simply need a common goal. We also need common law. Common law means that we *agree* to be subject to it, because that subjection - submission - "slavery" if we must - makes the community a respublica.

And this attitude, Cato care, is exactly what Cicero was lamenting about. I believe an attitude such as what you just stated if applied to a democracy such as the United States would result in rebellion and perhaps even anarchy.
So perhaps I misunderstood you – surely you do not mean that we should submit to slavery to go from a community to a Respublica?
I value my freedom more than that and I certainly would not be part of an organization that would enslave me through common law.
Cicero carefully stated a "populus is a society based on common laws and common interests."
You mention common law, add add your own phrase common goals, but conveniently leave out common interests. A half definition is as problematic as a misconstrued definition. Further a study of the life and times of the man in the context of the circumstances of the statement sheds more light on its meaning.
So I repeat "It is the entire body, without exception, that this quote was directed to by Cicero. By obeying the Laws, the average (meaning those not in the Senate, or an Official) citizen were imprisoned by these laws at the whim of the Senate and Magistrates. By following such laws negates an average Roman citizens' freedom because freedom means the ability to be free and make ones own choices.
So, in essence, in ancient Rome the average citizen was expected to adhere to ideals they had no part in creating and the Senate and Officials established laws to serve their own needs and so it is said that most citizens were not only enslaved to the laws but were kept enslaved by the laws."
So again surely you do not mean that, at the whim of the Senate and Magistrates, that we should submit to slavery to go from a community to a Respublica?

Cato> You may be influenced by a reaction as well to something that Einstein once commented on. He said:
>
> "Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."
>
> This is precisely the case in Nova Roma. We are saddled with some laws - ones that I have refused to use and have relentlessly advocated repealing - that we simply cannot enforce. We have little, if any, way of enforcing our own law short of moderation and banishment/exile.

*laughs* You really do not want to engage in a discussion on Einstein, the non-conformist who was also a great diplomat. Again amice, you cannot pick and choose out of context. This quote was in response to Prohibition, and I do not think I have to go into the miasma of political embarrassments, excesses and abuses associated with Prohibition. The resulting underground black market that resulted from Prohibition was a black mark on that era. This was a law which was not consented to by the majority of people and so it was viewed by those with common sensibilities as no law at all: as an immoral act of coercion by the powerful government. It is interesting to note though that here was also a strong lobby group; a moral majority of the time who sought to enslave people for the common good with a strong sense of Christian fundamental religious conviction behind it.
Perhaps Cicero and Einstein would have gotten along well. Both had their atheist moments also – look it up.
The original quote goes something like this:
"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein.
So now your statement once again: Cato:"> This is precisely the case in Nova Roma. We are saddled with some laws - ones that I have refused to use and have relentlessly advocated repealing - that we simply cannot enforce. We have little, if any, way of enforcing our own law short of moderation and banishment/exile," takes on a completely different light when the true meaning of Einstein's quote is revealed.

Cato> With this in mind, if we see the laws that *can* be obeyed reasonably and fully being tossed aside for expedience of any kind (personal, political) it brings out the nit-picking kind of activity for which you evidence such dislike - and which, in truth, is pretty dislikeable.

The nit-picking activity is unlikable. I appreciate your honestly in admitting that the truth is that the activity is unlikable, being that you have been one of the most active perpetrators of such activity.

Cato: But if we let small laws be ignored, and then larger ones, and larger ones, until finally the very basis of the community itself - one of the very elements that makes it a Respublica - is tossed aside because it hinders an individual's or group's hold on authority and power within our community...

In my opinion what has hindered law revision in this past year have been individuals and groups outside of the current government who appear to display a high level of egoism and a fervid desire to obtain an even higher level of authority and power by overpowering the law review committee rather than spending a little time planning and organizing. Rather than making a concerted effort to work together. Rather than prioritizing the problematic leges then taking one lex at a time and analyzing it, the committee was bombarded with a few individual's favorite set of leges they believe should be changed and the resulting dissertations all thrown on the table at once. That is a basic formula for a strategic tactic used to confuse, confound and intimidate participants and obstruct all progress. Of course I would not want to think those individuals, one being yourself, realized that this was what they/you were doing. I hope not anyway.
A simple form with a chosen Lex would have solved a lot of problems and focused the work so it could have been done:
Example:
Lex XXXXX
Objective:
Goals:
1.
2.
3.
Problems:
1.
2.
3.
Other leges it impacts:
Proposed solutions:
1.
2.
3.

By doing it this way most of the personalities and "motivations" are removed and the work could have been done in a clear concise analytical manner with actual progress.

I have enjoyed this exchange, thank you Cato and best wishes on your future endeavors.

Cura ut valeas,

Julia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iuliae Aquilae omnibusque in foro ASPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> First, nice news about Neptunus! and thank you again :)
>
> Now, I agree that your speech is very well-presented and thoughtful. I do, however - stop smiling - disagree to a certain degree.
>
> "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." - Aristotle
>
> Being a "slave to the law so that we are free" can mean quite exactly what it appears to mean. As a whole society - a res publica - we submit ourselves to a greater contract, a more all-encompassing set of societal rules (the law) so that individuals within that society may enjoy greater personal freedom.
>
> When those rules are abrogated or ignored by those in power, a response is natural - we have agreed to abide by these rules and when they are broken the conract between us not only as individuals but us as a community. Cicero's own definition of what makes a respublica - common law and common goals - make this clear. In order to truly exhibit the basics of a respublica, we do not simply need a common goal. We also need common law. Common law means that we *agree*
> to be subject to it, because that subjection - submission - "slavery" if we must - makes the community a respublica.
>
>
> You may be influenced by a reaction as well to something that Einstein once commented on. He said:
>
> "Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."
>
> This is precisely the case in Nova Roma. We are saddled with some laws - ones that I have refused to use and have relentlessly advocated repealing - that we simply cannot enforce. We have little, if any, way of enforcing our own law short of moderation and banishment/exile.
>
> With this in mind, if we see the laws that *can* be obeyed reasonably and fully being tossed aside for expedience of any kind (personal, political) it brings out the nit-picking kind of activity for which you evidence such dislike - and which, in truth, is pretty dislikeable. But if we let small laws be ignored, and then larger ones, and larger ones, until finally the very basis of the community itself - one of the very elements that makes it a Respublica - is tossed aside because it hinders an individual's or group's hold on authority and power within our community...
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 71071 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2009-10-11
Subject: Re: Classic Poetry, Prose, Proems, Literature Excerpts
Salvete Omnes,

This night's offering is from Tacitus Liber I: 1-2:

Tacitus: The End of the Republic

(Tacitus begins the Annals by describing how the civil war and proscriptions (mass executions of political opponents) had destroyed the Republic.)

Rome at the beginning was ruled by kings. Freedom and the consulship were established by Lucius Brutus. Dictatorships were held for a temporary crisis. The power of the decemvirs did not last beyond two years, nor was the consular jurisdiction of the military tribunes of long duration. The despotisms of Cinna and Sulla were brief; the rule of Pompey and of Crassus soon yielded before Caesar; the arms of Lepidus and (Mark) Antony before Augustus; who, when the world was wearied by civil strife, subjected it to empire under the title of "Prince." But the successes and reverses of the old Roman people have been recorded by famous historians; and fine intellects were not wanting to describe the times of Augustus, till growing sycophancy scared them away. The histories of Tiberius, Caius (Caligula), Claudius, and Nero, while they were in power, were falsified through terror, and after their death were written under the irritation of a recent hatred. Hence my purpose is to relate a few facts about Augustus- more particularly his last acts, then the reign of Tiberius, and all which follows, without either bitterness or partiality, from any motives to which I am far removed.
When after the destruction of Brutus and Cassius there was no longer any army of the Republic, when Pompey was crushed in Sicily, and when, with Lepidus pushed aside and (Mark) Antony slain, even the Julian faction had only Caesar left to lead it, then, dropping the title of triumvir, and giving out that he was a Consul, and was satisfied with a tribune's authority for the protection of the people, Augustus won over the soldiers with gifts, the populace with cheap corn, and all men with the sweets of repose, and so grew greater by degrees, while he concentrated in himself the functions of the Senate, the magistrates, and the laws. He was wholly unopposed, for the boldest spirits had fallen in battle, or in the proscription, while the remaining nobles, the readier they were to be slaves, were raised the higher by wealth and promotion, so that, aggrandised by revolution, they preferred the safety of the present to the dangerous past. Nor did the provinces dislike that condition of affairs, for they distrusted the government of the Senate and the people, because of the rivalries between the leading men and the rapacity of the officials, while the protection of the laws was unavailing, as they were continually deranged by violence, intrigue, and finally by corruption.

1. Urbem Romam a principio reges habuere; libertatem et consulatum L. Brutus instituit. dictaturae ad tempus sumebantur; neque decemviralis potestas ultra biennium, neque tribunorum militum consulare ius diu valuit. non Cinnae, non Sullae longa dominatio; et Pompei Crassique potentia cito in Caesarem, Lepidi atque Antonii arma in Augustum cessere, qui cuncta discordiis civilibus fessa nomine principis sub imperium accepit. sed veteris populi Romani prospera vel adversa claris scriptoribus memorata sunt; temporibusque Augusti dicendis non defuere decora ingenia, donec gliscente adulatione deterrerentur. Tiberii Gaique et Claudii ac Neronis res florentibus ipsis ob metum falsae, postquam occiderant, recentibus odiis compositae sunt. inde consilium mihi pauca de Augusto et extrema tradere, mox Tiberii principatum et cetera, sine ira et studio, quorum causas procul habeo.

2. Postquam Bruto et Cassio caesis nulla iam publica arma, Pompeius apud Siciliam oppressus exutoque Lepido, interfecto Antonio ne Iulianis quidem partibus nisi Caesar dux reliquus, posito triumviri nomine consulem se ferens et ad tuendam plebem tribunicio iure contentum, ubi militem donis, populum annona, cunctos dulcedine otii pellexit, insurgere paulatim, munia senatus magistratuum legum in se trahere, nullo adversante, cum ferocissimi per acies aut proscriptione cecidissent, ceteri nobilium, quanto quis servitio promptior, opibus et honoribus extollerentur ac novis ex rebus aucti tuta et praesentia quam vetera et periculosa mallent. neque provinciae illum rerum statum abnuebant, suspecto senatus populique imperio ob certamina potentium et avaritiam magistratuum, invalido legum auxilio quae vi ambitu postremo pecunia turbabantur.

Valete optime,

Julia