--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Julia Caecae sal,
>
> Yes Lavender was used for many reasons, in addition to flavoring foods, medicines(antiseptic, healing), purification rituals, insect repellant, scenting the baths, perfumes, skin care. I have a paper on it on my other computer and it will be included in TOV workshop pt 1 in November. It was originally known as nardus, sometimes seen translated as spikenard but eventually it was known as Lavandarius, derived from the Latin lavare "to wash", which you may be familiar with by now;)
>
> I will be adding more here as time permits, so watch for it!
>
> Vale amica,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Shoshana Hathaway" <shoshanahathaway@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeca Juliae sal,
> >
> > Thank you for this very interesting post. I did know some of this, but
> > certainly not all, and not the great use made of honey and beeswax by the
> > Romans. I wonder ...was lavender available to the Ancient Romans? As I am
> > sure you know, lavender is an excellent help in healing burns, among other
> > things, at least in essential oil form.
> >
> > Vale optime,
> > C. Maria Caeca
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:19 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Medicine
> >
> >
> > Salvéte Omnes,
> >
> > Honey~ Focusing mainly on Wound Care and its adaptation to today's medicine.
> >
> > "Unwashed wool supplies very many remedies...it is applied..with honey to
> > old sores. Wounds it heals if dipped in wine or vinegar..yolks of eggs..are
> > taken for dysentery with the ash of their shells, poppy juice and wine. It
> > is recommended to bathe the eyes with a decoction of the liver and to apply
> > the marrow to those that are painful or swollen."
> > ~Pliny
> >
> > The many attributes of Honey were very well known in the Ancient World, for
> > its preservative value, its healing value, flavor and health properties.
> > Women used honey to soften the skin as facial masks, in lip balm to sweeten
> > one's kiss and a touch may have been added to perfumes or even to skin balms
> > for obvious reasons. A skin softener from beeswax was also used which was
> > made from boiling the beeswax in salt water. Pliny also describes using the
> > broth of white beeswax and salt water to feed to those with dysentery. Honey
> > was also used for food preservation in Ancient Rome and already was being
> > used in embalming in other ancient cultures, although Ancient Roman citizens
> > rarely buried their dead.
> > Honey suppresses infection in wounds because of its high sugar content
> > however due to its antibacterial components dressings do not have to be
> > changed as often allowing the patients body to heal itself through its own
> > defenses allowing autolytic debridement, re-epithelialization and the
> > subsequent healing. Our ancient ancestors knew this through observation and
> > success.
> > Modern microbiological studies have shown more than one hundred-fold
> > differences in the potency of the antibacterial activity of various types of
> > honey with best results expected when using a honey with a high level of
> > antibacterial activity. Something our ancient ancestors already knew. While
> > discussing differences in honeys, Aristotle (384-322 BC) referred to pale
> > honey as being "good as a salve for sore eyes and wounds." Dioscorides (c.50
> > AD) wrote that pale yellow honey from Attica was the best: "good for all
> > rotten and hollow ulcers".
> > Today some still use honey with good results however in clinical settings,
> > and at home, Hydrocolloids are often used to get similar effects without the
> > mess; these are made of cellulose, guar, pectin and gelatin.
> > The antibacterial activity of honey is due to hydrogen peroxide generated
> > primarily by the action of an enzyme that the bees add to the nectar
> > although there are some floral sources that provide additional antibacterial
> > components. Honey is effective against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus
> > aureus which are the most common causes of infected wounds. Our body tissues
> > and serum contain catalase, which is a human enzyme that breaks down
> > hydrogen. Catalase does not break down the antibacterial components that
> > come from the nectar. The bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in
> > honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so care must be taken
> > to aerate wounds under wound dressings or in wound cavities. The same bee
> > enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the
> > acidity of honey is neutralized by body fluids.
> > Manuka honey is recommended for modern use as it contains hydrogen peroxide
> > activity as well as the component that comes from the nectar. It is also
> > reportedly more stable in the presence of heat, light and can tolerate less
> > oxygen in the event a closed bandage is needed. Unpasteurized honey, as was
> > used in ancient Rome, should be used because the enzyme in honey that
> > produces hydrogen peroxide is destroyed by heating and exposure to light so
> > it should also be stored in a cool place and protected from light. Honey can
> > be slightly warmed to liquefy it at no more than 37°C. It is interesting to
> > note that in modern studies no case of infection resulting from the use of
> > honey has been reported.
> >
> > Wound Care using Honey:
> > 1. The amount of honey depends on the amount of fluid exuding from the
> > wound.
> > 2. The various beneficial effects of honey on wound tissues will be reduced
> > or lost if small amounts of honey become diluted by large amounts of fluid.
> > The frequency of dressing changes required will depend on how rapidly the
> > honey is being diluted by fluid.
> > 3. Daily dressing changes are usual however up to three times daily may be
> > needed. If the dressing sticks to the wound this indicates that more
> > frequent changes of dressing are needed. Exudation of fluid should be
> > reduced by the anti-inflammatory action of honey, so less frequent dressing
> > changes may be needed later - a few days between changes - this will give
> > the wound a chance to re-epithelialize and heal using the body's own system.
> > 4. More honey is required on deeper infections, to obtain an effective level
> > of antibacterial activity diffusing deep into the wound tissues. Typically,
> > 20 ml of honey (25 - 30 g, 1 ounce) is used on a 10 cm X 10 cm (4 inch X 4
> > inch) dressing.
> > 5. Occlusive (waterproof) or absorbent secondary dressings (Hydrocolloids)
> > are needed to prevent honey oozing out from the wound dressing. (Occlusive
> > dressings are better as they keep more of the honey in contact with the
> > wound - absorbent dressings soak the honey away from the wound
> > 6. Dressing pads impregnated with honey are the most convenient way of
> > applying honey to surface wounds: it is best to spread the honey on the
> > dressing rather than on the wound.
> > 7. Abscesses, cavities and depressions in the wound bed are filled with
> > honey before applying the honey dressing pad, so that the honey is in direct
> > contact with the wound bed.
> > 8. The honey dressings are cut to a size that extends beyond the edges of
> > the wound and any surrounding inflamed area.
> >
> > There are many more uses for honey, some I use, others, I wouldn't:
> >
> > Mercurialis (de Arte Gymnast. Amstel. 4to. 1672, pp2, 3):
> > "A blind soldier named Valerius Apes, having consulted the oracle, was
> > informed that he should mix the blood of a white cock with honey, to make up
> > an ointment to be applied to his eyes, for three consecutive days: he
> > received his sight, and returned public thanks to the gods."
> > "Julian appeared lost beyond all hope from a spitting of blood. The god
> > ordered him to take from the altar some seeds of the pine, and to mix them
> > with honey, of which mixture he was to eat for three days. He was saved, and
> > came to thank the gods in presence of the people."
> >
> > I would not put chicken blood on any open wound or body opening in today's
> > world. However if one has a sty I could see how a poultice of pure rose
> > water and honey would help. In antiquity honey had a great reputation in
> > producing clearer vision; this may also be one of the reasons for its
> > reputation of endowing the power of divination - so it improves not only the
> > physical but also the spiritual sight - a meta-magical construct.
> > Pine seeds with honey are nutritious and contain thiamine, vitamin B1,
> > pinoleic acid, magnesium, rich in iron (key component in hemoglobin that
> > oxygen carrying pigment that supplies energy and contains more protein than
> > any other seed/nut in addition to the highest concentration of Oleic
> > acid(the stuff that lowers triglycerides) and have anti-inflammatory and
> > antioxidant action. So Julian surely received some benefit and may have had
> > an iron deficiency anemia- spitting up blood can be a symptom of anemia.
> >
> > Most of us have heard of Honey and lemon, or Honey and Rum (or another
> > alcohol of choice) including Mulsum - all beneficial and all having origins
> > in ancient times. Oxymel, a mixture of honey, vinegar, salt, and water was
> > not just used in preparing vegetables was also a cure for throat and ear
> > problems. Hydromel (when fermented makes mead) and aqua mulsa, a
> > honey-water, were also used as medicine. A tonic of cinnamon and honey were
> > used to treat cold and sore throats, the antibacterial properties of
> > cinnamon are for another time ;)
> > . Hippocrates considered honey a very good expectorant and said of its
> > virtues: "It causes heat, cleans sores and ulcers, softens hard ulcers of
> > the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores." He recommended honey for
> > difficulty in breathing due to its expectorant qualities: "it causes
> > spitting." This has credence in modern treatment.
> > . Dioscorides in Materia Medica often mentions honey as an excellent
> > medicine in addition to beeswax, propolis and honey- wie. He also praises
> > the medicinal value of wax, propolis and honey-wine. This also has credence
> > in modern treatment.
> > . Cornelius Celsus in De Medicina stated that a physician must heal in a
> > safe, quick and pleasing manner "tuto, cito et jucunde", which could be best
> > accomplished with honey.
> > . Galen recommended the mixing of four parts of honey with one part of gall
> > of the sea-tortoise which, when dropped into the eyes, would improve the
> > sight. He also recommended a paste of honey and dead bees for hair growth:
> > "Take Bees dead in combs, and when they are through dry make them into
> > powder, mingle them with the honey in which they died and anoint the parts
> > of the Head that are bald and thin-haired, and you shall see them grow
> > again."
> > . Marcellus: "The honey pure and neat wherein the Bees are dead, let that
> > drop into the eyes; or honey mixed with the ashes of the heads of Bees,
> > makes the eyes very clear." Today in India they still make a kohl that even
> > children wear to protect and nourish their eyes, it is made of ash, beeswax,
> > a touch of camphor and in some cases a touch of honey (although this is
> > usually ceremonial). It is supposed to make the eyes healthy, clear the
> > whites and make the eyes shine.
> > . Pliny also credited honey in which bees have died with the faculty of
> > relieving dullness of sight and hearing. Pliny burned the bees, mixed their
> > ashes with honey and used the substance for all kinds of ailments: "Powdered
> > bees with milk, wine or honey will surely cure dropsy, dissolve gravel and
> > stones, will open all passages of urine and cure the stopping of the
> > bladder. Bees pounded with honey cure griping of the belly." Honey can be
> > soothing to some abdominal pain in small amounts; it can also be a laxative
> > in larger amounts. Clear fluids are better for stones and bladder problems
> > though.
> > . Celsus prescribed raw honey as a laxative and boiled honey as a cure for
> > diarrhea: "the acrimony is taken away by boyling which wont to move the
> > belly and to diminish the virtue of the food" (Libr. 3 C. 3). Again, it is
> > dependant on amounts and how the individual reacts to the honey.
> > . Claudius Aelianus (Aelian) believed that honey from Pontus cured epilepsy.
> > I would have to see what else is in that honey, and if perhaps the
> > "seizures" may have been due to a blood glucose imbalance;)
> > . Porphyry believed honey had four excellent qualities: 1) nourishing food
> > 2) a good cleanser 3) healing power 4) pleasant due to its sweetness. I
> > concur.
> > . Aristoxenus believed anyone who eats honey, spring onions and bread for
> > his daily breakfast will be free from all diseases for life.
> >
> > Well this is all I have for today!
> >
> > Cúrá ut valeás optimé!
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09
> > 08:10:00
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:

>  
> Yes, let us rid ourselves of these rats before they sink Nova Roma and we all know that the rats are always the first to abandon ship.
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

 

Cato Valeriae Messallinae Virgo Maximae omnibusque in foro SPD

Salvete!

This didn't make much sense, unfortunately. Rats are legendary for abandoning a ship *before* it sinks, not for *causing* it to sink. If you think that people talking on a List outside the "official" ones is capable of "sinking" Nova Roma - even if, unfortunately, some discussions there are offensive to many - you seriously overestimate the power of the pixel.

By the way, it may be of some interest for the People to know that the Senate is currently in session: the items on its agenda are the re-instatement of Marcus Audens' citizenship and seat in the Senate and a set of internal rules to give the consuls more control over who can speak on the Senate floor when the Senate is in session.

I don't know why none of the tribunes saw fit to announce the Senate session, but there you go.

Valete,

Cato

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:

  I guess hurling insults at the Virgo Maxima doesn't count.Â

Well, first off, I'm not keen on hurling insults at anyone. But yes, it does happen and has happened on the Ba, both sides apparently having given as good as they've got.

However, I don't know whether this is a cultural difference or not. I'm in the UK (though there's not really much united about it:-), I'm Scottish and we have a long history of not mixing up the person with the position.  For instance, slag off the position of First Minister of the Scottish Assembly and you'd find a lot of us very annoyed at you. Slag off the current first minister or indeed any previous one and you'd find loads of us agreeing with you and probably even topping your stories. Even those of us who disagreed with you would accept that you were perfectly entitled to your personal opinion of the individual concerned.  We just have never felt that having a title, any title means the person themselves should be fireproof.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, though I don't condone insulting anyone, insulting a person who happens to hold a position is not the same as insulting that position itself.

Flavia Lucilla Merula

 

  Â

 

> <<--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>  
> As I've frequently said, I've never seen the Religio mocked on the BA - it's the one thing i wouldn't stand for because it's the whole reason I joined Nova Roma in the first place.>>
>  
>  
> I guess hurling insults at the Virgo Maxima doesn't count. 
>  
>
>  
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:

...

It has nothing
> to do with his inclusion into the list of senatores. That is the call of
> the censores and not the senate.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, that was extremely nasty, really inexcusable.
> vale
> Maior
>
> -->
> > <<--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@> wrote:
> >  
> > As I've frequently said, I've never seen the Religio mocked on the BA - it's the one thing i wouldn't stand for because it's the whole reason I joined Nova Roma in the first place.>>
> >  
> >  
> > I guess hurling insults at the Virgo Maxima doesn't count. 
> >  
> >
> >  
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
>
> <<--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> This didn't make much sense, unfortunately. Rats are legendary for abandoning a ship *before* it sinks, not for *causing* it to sink.>>
>  
>  
> True enough, but then we were discussing the human kind of "rats".
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>  
>  
>

> I guess what I'm trying to say is that, though I don't condone insulting anyone, insulting a person who happens to hold a position is not the same as insulting that position itself.>>
>  
> Well said and very true.
> However, insults were made about Vestals in general. I was very shocked at first, but I am not any longer. Just as I have gotten over the shock of finding out that there are certain people in Nova Roma who consider me, the Virgo Maxima, a "tramp" just because I dare to have an opinion on Nova Roma politics.
> I also know that you, Lucilla Merula, are not among those persons and for that I am grateful.
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>

> I guess what I'm trying to say is that, though I don't

>  
>

> However, insults were made about Vestals

> I also know that you, Lucilla

>

> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria

> Sacerdos

>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
>
> <<--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> And you are correct, as I said at the time; political differences do not - or should nor - serve as a foundation for personal attacks, and your office is of great importance to the Respublica. I would be careful then, in deciding to call all those who subscribe to the Back Alley as "rats" - it sort of has the slightest, faintest whiff of hypocrisy about it. I do NOT say this to start an argument with you, only to note that if you feel aggrieved at being made fun of by those whose opinion differs from yours, the reverse may also be true.>>
>  
> I was simply agreeing with Anna that Nova Roma could do with an overhaul and certain "rats" should be sent on their way, as they have shown no love for Nova Roma nor any true concern for her welfare. I certainly did not mean to imply that all those who subscribe to the BA are these people, for that is not true and I apologize if I have offended them.
> However, please do no speak of me of hypocrisy, for I have learned that some people who are respectful to me on this and other lists, turn around and blast me behind my back. I have no intention of starting any arguments, least of all with you, Cato, as you have always addressed me with respect and consideration in your replies, and for that I am grateful.
> But I do not consider being called an "idiot", a "tramp" and having insults of a sexual nature made at my expense, and that of the Vestals in general, as "being made fun of".
> I have a sense of humor and I can take a joke, but what was said went way beyond that. It was dispectful to me and to my Office. Period. And worse -  it made my two apprentices decide not to join Nova Roma - ever. The damage has been done. 
>  
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> That was the senate, and this is not the senate. What is discussed on the
> senate list should remain on the senate list.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Maiori sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > As was your calling Venator a "hater" and a "coward" in the Senate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

 

Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

So are you now opposed to letting the People know that the Senate is in session?

Does not the announcement - which the tribunes neglected, somehow - always contain the agenda? Why, yes it does.

Has not the Senate reject, repeatedly, the formalizing of any kind of "seal" on the Senate? Why, yes it has.

Is it not in the best interests of the Respublica that the People know what the hell is going on? Why, yes it is.

Vale,

Cato

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 2:02 PM, David Kling wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> That was the senate, and this is not the senate.  What is discussed on the senate list should remain on the senate list.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>

I should like to agree with this.

Besides, I am loathe to take offense at a gathering of photons on my
LCD, especially when the issuer of the vituperation is of little to no
consequence in my life.

Valete - Venator

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <
> maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I guess hurling insults at the Virgo Maxima doesn't count.
> >
>
> Well, first off, I'm not keen on hurling insults at anyone. But yes, it does
> happen and has happened on the Ba, both sides apparently having given as
> good as they've got.
>
> However, I don't know whether this is a cultural difference or not. I'm in
> the UK (though there's not really much united about it:-), I'm Scottish and
> we have a long history of not mixing up the person with the position. For
> instance, slag off the position of First Minister of the Scottish Assembly
> and you'd find a lot of us very annoyed at you. Slag off the current first
> minister or indeed any previous one and you'd find loads of us agreeing with
> you and probably even topping your stories. Even those of us who disagreed
> with you would accept that you were perfectly entitled to your personal
> opinion of the individual concerned. We just have never felt that having a
> title, any title means the person themselves should be fireproof.
>
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that, though I don't condone insulting
> anyone, insulting a person who happens to hold a position is not the same as
> insulting that position itself.
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "ugo21121970" <ugo.coppola@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher
> <spqr753@> wrote:
> >
> > Ok putting aside politics for the moment lets have some fun! You must
> fill in with an appropriate quote OR something of your own.
> >
> >
> >
> > It must start... Books are....
>
> This is a slogan for a campaign about book reading by the Italian
> Ministry of Culture, but I find it quite poetical, so I'm quoting it
> here:
>
> "Books are doors which open into worlds of boundless imagination -
> whenever you want them to."
>
> Bene vale, et valete,
> P. Annæus Constantinus Placidus
>

>Precisely.

> So rather than sweeping into a discussion of dueling philosophical schools, let's look into the way things have been developing in our own Respublica.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176522-Romania-Hotel-to-hire-medium-to-deal-with-resident-ghost 

Photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/4010062926/

A hotel in Romania recently became a site of interest for ghost hunters after a local photographed what appears to be a female spirit standing above its lobby stairwell. The hotel, named the Decebal, is situated in the mountain spa resort of Baile Herculane.

Local, Victorian Loval aged 33 and her boyfriend snuck inside the hotel which has been closed for five years for renovations. While inside she snapped the photo, but only saw the ghost later, when she developed the film. The hotel is said to stand on an ancient Roman ruin and the ghost appears to be wearing the white robe of an ancient Roman priestess.

Some have dismissed the photo as an illusion caused by irregular stonework in the lobby however others have been in the hotel since the event and swear that they saw the ghost. One group of students fled the building in fear after being confronted by the apparent spirit. Another man called a friend from inside the lobby in a panic after claiming to have seen its ghostly resident. Some have commented that she might be guarding something of ancient importance.

Now it appears that the owner of the site is worried that this non-paying resident might be bad for business when the establishment re-opens. It is being reported in the Romanian press that the hotel management is planning to bring out a medium to make contact and ask the spirit why she remains and on what conditions she might 'check-out'.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Nero" <rikudemyx@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
> As I thought the past few days I've been with my guy leaving no time for posts but thank you for posting yours:)
> Very Interesting can't wait to read your paper.
> Di Vos Incolumes Custodiant.
> Nero
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Julia Caecae sal,
> >
> > Yes Lavender was used for many reasons, in addition to flavoring foods, medicines(antiseptic, healing), purification rituals, insect repellant, scenting the baths, perfumes, skin care. I have a paper on it on my other computer and it will be included in TOV workshop pt 1 in November. It was originally known as nardus, sometimes seen translated as spikenard but eventually it was known as Lavandarius, derived from the Latin lavare "to wash", which you may be familiar with by now;)
> >
> > I will be adding more here as time permits, so watch for it!
> >
> > Vale amica,
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Shoshana Hathaway" <shoshanahathaway@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Caeca Juliae sal,
> > >
> > > Thank you for this very interesting post. I did know some of this, but
> > > certainly not all, and not the great use made of honey and beeswax by the
> > > Romans. I wonder ...was lavender available to the Ancient Romans? As I am
> > > sure you know, lavender is an excellent help in healing burns, among other
> > > things, at least in essential oil form.
> > >
> > > Vale optime,
> > > C. Maria Caeca
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@>
> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 4:19 PM
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Roman Medicine
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvéte Omnes,
> > >
> > > Honey~ Focusing mainly on Wound Care and its adaptation to today's medicine.
> > >
> > > "Unwashed wool supplies very many remedies...it is applied..with honey to
> > > old sores. Wounds it heals if dipped in wine or vinegar..yolks of eggs..are
> > > taken for dysentery with the ash of their shells, poppy juice and wine. It
> > > is recommended to bathe the eyes with a decoction of the liver and to apply
> > > the marrow to those that are painful or swollen."
> > > ~Pliny
> > >
> > > The many attributes of Honey were very well known in the Ancient World, for
> > > its preservative value, its healing value, flavor and health properties.
> > > Women used honey to soften the skin as facial masks, in lip balm to sweeten
> > > one's kiss and a touch may have been added to perfumes or even to skin balms
> > > for obvious reasons. A skin softener from beeswax was also used which was
> > > made from boiling the beeswax in salt water. Pliny also describes using the
> > > broth of white beeswax and salt water to feed to those with dysentery. Honey
> > > was also used for food preservation in Ancient Rome and already was being
> > > used in embalming in other ancient cultures, although Ancient Roman citizens
> > > rarely buried their dead.
> > > Honey suppresses infection in wounds because of its high sugar content
> > > however due to its antibacterial components dressings do not have to be
> > > changed as often allowing the patients body to heal itself through its own
> > > defenses allowing autolytic debridement, re-epithelialization and the
> > > subsequent healing. Our ancient ancestors knew this through observation and
> > > success.
> > > Modern microbiological studies have shown more than one hundred-fold
> > > differences in the potency of the antibacterial activity of various types of
> > > honey with best results expected when using a honey with a high level of
> > > antibacterial activity. Something our ancient ancestors already knew. While
> > > discussing differences in honeys, Aristotle (384-322 BC) referred to pale
> > > honey as being "good as a salve for sore eyes and wounds." Dioscorides (c.50
> > > AD) wrote that pale yellow honey from Attica was the best: "good for all
> > > rotten and hollow ulcers".
> > > Today some still use honey with good results however in clinical settings,
> > > and at home, Hydrocolloids are often used to get similar effects without the
> > > mess; these are made of cellulose, guar, pectin and gelatin.
> > > The antibacterial activity of honey is due to hydrogen peroxide generated
> > > primarily by the action of an enzyme that the bees add to the nectar
> > > although there are some floral sources that provide additional antibacterial
> > > components. Honey is effective against Eschericihia coli and Staphylococcus
> > > aureus which are the most common causes of infected wounds. Our body tissues
> > > and serum contain catalase, which is a human enzyme that breaks down
> > > hydrogen. Catalase does not break down the antibacterial components that
> > > come from the nectar. The bee enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in
> > > honey needs oxygen to be available for the reaction, so care must be taken
> > > to aerate wounds under wound dressings or in wound cavities. The same bee
> > > enzyme that produces hydrogen peroxide in honey becomes active only when the
> > > acidity of honey is neutralized by body fluids.
> > > Manuka honey is recommended for modern use as it contains hydrogen peroxide
> > > activity as well as the component that comes from the nectar. It is also
> > > reportedly more stable in the presence of heat, light and can tolerate less
> > > oxygen in the event a closed bandage is needed. Unpasteurized honey, as was
> > > used in ancient Rome, should be used because the enzyme in honey that
> > > produces hydrogen peroxide is destroyed by heating and exposure to light so
> > > it should also be stored in a cool place and protected from light. Honey can
> > > be slightly warmed to liquefy it at no more than 37°C. It is interesting to
> > > note that in modern studies no case of infection resulting from the use of
> > > honey has been reported.
> > >
> > > Wound Care using Honey:
> > > 1. The amount of honey depends on the amount of fluid exuding from the
> > > wound.
> > > 2. The various beneficial effects of honey on wound tissues will be reduced
> > > or lost if small amounts of honey become diluted by large amounts of fluid.
> > > The frequency of dressing changes required will depend on how rapidly the
> > > honey is being diluted by fluid.
> > > 3. Daily dressing changes are usual however up to three times daily may be
> > > needed. If the dressing sticks to the wound this indicates that more
> > > frequent changes of dressing are needed. Exudation of fluid should be
> > > reduced by the anti-inflammatory action of honey, so less frequent dressing
> > > changes may be needed later - a few days between changes - this will give
> > > the wound a chance to re-epithelialize and heal using the body's own system.
> > > 4. More honey is required on deeper infections, to obtain an effective level
> > > of antibacterial activity diffusing deep into the wound tissues. Typically,
> > > 20 ml of honey (25 - 30 g, 1 ounce) is used on a 10 cm X 10 cm (4 inch X 4
> > > inch) dressing.
> > > 5. Occlusive (waterproof) or absorbent secondary dressings (Hydrocolloids)
> > > are needed to prevent honey oozing out from the wound dressing. (Occlusive
> > > dressings are better as they keep more of the honey in contact with the
> > > wound - absorbent dressings soak the honey away from the wound
> > > 6. Dressing pads impregnated with honey are the most convenient way of
> > > applying honey to surface wounds: it is best to spread the honey on the
> > > dressing rather than on the wound.
> > > 7. Abscesses, cavities and depressions in the wound bed are filled with
> > > honey before applying the honey dressing pad, so that the honey is in direct
> > > contact with the wound bed.
> > > 8. The honey dressings are cut to a size that extends beyond the edges of
> > > the wound and any surrounding inflamed area.
> > >
> > > There are many more uses for honey, some I use, others, I wouldn't:
> > >
> > > Mercurialis (de Arte Gymnast. Amstel. 4to. 1672, pp2, 3):
> > > "A blind soldier named Valerius Apes, having consulted the oracle, was
> > > informed that he should mix the blood of a white cock with honey, to make up
> > > an ointment to be applied to his eyes, for three consecutive days: he
> > > received his sight, and returned public thanks to the gods."
> > > "Julian appeared lost beyond all hope from a spitting of blood. The god
> > > ordered him to take from the altar some seeds of the pine, and to mix them
> > > with honey, of which mixture he was to eat for three days. He was saved, and
> > > came to thank the gods in presence of the people."
> > >
> > > I would not put chicken blood on any open wound or body opening in today's
> > > world. However if one has a sty I could see how a poultice of pure rose
> > > water and honey would help. In antiquity honey had a great reputation in
> > > producing clearer vision; this may also be one of the reasons for its
> > > reputation of endowing the power of divination - so it improves not only the
> > > physical but also the spiritual sight - a meta-magical construct.
> > > Pine seeds with honey are nutritious and contain thiamine, vitamin B1,
> > > pinoleic acid, magnesium, rich in iron (key component in hemoglobin that
> > > oxygen carrying pigment that supplies energy and contains more protein than
> > > any other seed/nut in addition to the highest concentration of Oleic
> > > acid(the stuff that lowers triglycerides) and have anti-inflammatory and
> > > antioxidant action. So Julian surely received some benefit and may have had
> > > an iron deficiency anemia- spitting up blood can be a symptom of anemia.
> > >
> > > Most of us have heard of Honey and lemon, or Honey and Rum (or another
> > > alcohol of choice) including Mulsum - all beneficial and all having origins
> > > in ancient times. Oxymel, a mixture of honey, vinegar, salt, and water was
> > > not just used in preparing vegetables was also a cure for throat and ear
> > > problems. Hydromel (when fermented makes mead) and aqua mulsa, a
> > > honey-water, were also used as medicine. A tonic of cinnamon and honey were
> > > used to treat cold and sore throats, the antibacterial properties of
> > > cinnamon are for another time ;)
> > > . Hippocrates considered honey a very good expectorant and said of its
> > > virtues: "It causes heat, cleans sores and ulcers, softens hard ulcers of
> > > the lips, heals carbuncles and running sores." He recommended honey for
> > > difficulty in breathing due to its expectorant qualities: "it causes
> > > spitting." This has credence in modern treatment.
> > > . Dioscorides in Materia Medica often mentions honey as an excellent
> > > medicine in addition to beeswax, propolis and honey- wie. He also praises
> > > the medicinal value of wax, propolis and honey-wine. This also has credence
> > > in modern treatment.
> > > . Cornelius Celsus in De Medicina stated that a physician must heal in a
> > > safe, quick and pleasing manner "tuto, cito et jucunde", which could be best
> > > accomplished with honey.
> > > . Galen recommended the mixing of four parts of honey with one part of gall
> > > of the sea-tortoise which, when dropped into the eyes, would improve the
> > > sight. He also recommended a paste of honey and dead bees for hair growth:
> > > "Take Bees dead in combs, and when they are through dry make them into
> > > powder, mingle them with the honey in which they died and anoint the parts
> > > of the Head that are bald and thin-haired, and you shall see them grow
> > > again."
> > > . Marcellus: "The honey pure and neat wherein the Bees are dead, let that
> > > drop into the eyes; or honey mixed with the ashes of the heads of Bees,
> > > makes the eyes very clear." Today in India they still make a kohl that even
> > > children wear to protect and nourish their eyes, it is made of ash, beeswax,
> > > a touch of camphor and in some cases a touch of honey (although this is
> > > usually ceremonial). It is supposed to make the eyes healthy, clear the
> > > whites and make the eyes shine.
> > > . Pliny also credited honey in which bees have died with the faculty of
> > > relieving dullness of sight and hearing. Pliny burned the bees, mixed their
> > > ashes with honey and used the substance for all kinds of ailments: "Powdered
> > > bees with milk, wine or honey will surely cure dropsy, dissolve gravel and
> > > stones, will open all passages of urine and cure the stopping of the
> > > bladder. Bees pounded with honey cure griping of the belly." Honey can be
> > > soothing to some abdominal pain in small amounts; it can also be a laxative
> > > in larger amounts. Clear fluids are better for stones and bladder problems
> > > though.
> > > . Celsus prescribed raw honey as a laxative and boiled honey as a cure for
> > > diarrhea: "the acrimony is taken away by boyling which wont to move the
> > > belly and to diminish the virtue of the food" (Libr. 3 C. 3). Again, it is
> > > dependant on amounts and how the individual reacts to the honey.
> > > . Claudius Aelianus (Aelian) believed that honey from Pontus cured epilepsy.
> > > I would have to see what else is in that honey, and if perhaps the
> > > "seizures" may have been due to a blood glucose imbalance;)
> > > . Porphyry believed honey had four excellent qualities: 1) nourishing food
> > > 2) a good cleanser 3) healing power 4) pleasant due to its sweetness. I
> > > concur.
> > > . Aristoxenus believed anyone who eats honey, spring onions and bread for
> > > his daily breakfast will be free from all diseases for life.
> > >
> > > Well this is all I have for today!
> > >
> > > Cúrá ut valeás optimé!
> > >
> > > Julia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.8/2425 - Release Date: 10/09/09
> > > 08:10:00
> > >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I am preparing for a Halloween Bash in Nashville this weekend and part of that planning is to tell ghost stories. So I would like to share one of the Roman genre, most of you have probably heard this one before but a good story bears repeating:
>
>
>
> An Ancient Ghost Story by Pliny the Younger
>
> Erat Athenis spatiosa et magna domus, sed infamis et pestilens. Per silentium noctis sonus ferri et strepitus vinculorum procul, tum e proximo auditi sunt. Mox apparebat senex macie et squalore confectus, qui barbam magnam et capillos villosos habebat; pedibus et manibus catenas habebat.
>
> Inhabitantes domus(gen) noctes diras et non somnum habebant. Morbus et etiam mors ex timore veniebant. Deserta et damna casa in silentio remanebat. Titulum positum est, sed nemo casam desideravit. Venit Athenas philosophus Athenodorus. Legit titulum, et pretio audito, multa rogat. Omnia audit, sed tamen casam capit.
>
> In vespera, Athenodorus lumen, stilum, et pugillares in prima parte casae posuit; tum omnes servos dimittit. Animum, oculos, et manum cum pugillaribus occupat, quod vacua mens multos timores fingit.
>
> Primo silentium est. Tum vincula procul audiuntur. Philosophus oculos non movet; stilo scribit. Soni in casa, tum in camera sunt. Athenodorus spectat; figuram videt. Senex stat et digito vocat. Athenodorus stilum iterum capit. Vincula audiuntur super caput. Nunc philosophus lumen capit. Senex tarde ad ianuam ambulat, et Athenodorus etiam ambulat post senem. In area casae senex philosophum deserit. Desertus philosophus in loco herbas ponit.
>
> Postero die magistratum vocat et magistratus locum effodit. Ossa inserta in vinculis invenit, et, collecta, publice sepeliuntur. Numquam iterum senex videbatur.
>
> There was in Athens a house, spacious and open, but with an infamous reputation, as if filled with pestilence. For in the dead of night, a noise like the clashing of iron could be heard. And if one listened carefully, it sounded like the rattling of chains. At first the noise seemed to be at a distance, but then it would approach, nearer, nearer, nearer. Suddenly a phantom would appear, an old man, pale and emaciated, with a long beard, and hair that appeared driven by the wind. The fetters on his feet and hands rattled as he moved them.
> Any dwellers in the house passed sleepless nights under the most dismal terrors imaginable. The nights without rest led them to a kind of madness, and as the horrors in their minds increased, onto a path toward death. Even in the daytime--when the phantom did not appear--the memory of the nightmare was so strong that it still passed before their eyes. The terror remained when the cause of it was gone.
> Damned as uninhabitable, the house was at last deserted, left to the spectral monster. But in hope that some tenant might be found who was unaware of the malevolence within it, the house was posted for rent or sale.
> It happened that a philosopher named Athenodorus came to Athens at that time. Reading the posted bill, he discovered the dwelling's price. The extraordinary cheapness raised his suspicion, yet when he heard the whole story, he was not in the least put off. Indeed, he was eager to take the place. And did so immediately.
> As evening drew near, Athenodorus had a couch prepared for him in the front section of the house. He asked for a light and his writing materials, then dismissed his retainers. To keep his mind from being distracted by vain terrors of imaginary noises and apparitions, he directed all his energy toward his writing.
> For a time the night was silent. Then came the rattling of fetters. Athenodorus neither lifted up his eyes, nor laid down his pen. Instead he closed his ears by concentrating on his work. But the noise increased and advanced closer till it seemed to be at the door, and at last in the very chamber. Athenodorus looked round and saw the apparition exactly as it had been described to him. It stood before him, beckoning with one finger.
> Athenodorus made a sign with his hand that the visitor should wait a little, and bent over his work. The ghost, however, shook the chains over the philosopher's head, beckoning as before. Athenodorus now took up his lamp and followed. The ghost moved slowly, as if held back by his chains. Once it reached the courtyard, it suddenly vanished.
> Athenodorus, now deserted, carefully marked the spot with a handful of grass and leaves. The next day he asked the magistrate to have the spot dug up. There they found--intertwined with chains--the bones that were all that remained of a body that had long lain in the ground. Carefully, the skeletal relics were collected and given proper burial, at public expense. The tortured ancient was at rest. And the house in Athens was haunted no more.
>
> Valete optime,
>
> Julia
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Before the bash you should get a copy of Felton's, _Haunted Greece and Rome: Ghost Stories from Classical Antiquity_. You'll have a lot more goodies to share! Although, the book doesn't just relate various stories but also discusses the genre of ghost stories in general in antiquity. It should spark some good conversation.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I am preparing for a Halloween Bash in Nashville this weekend and part of that planning is to tell ghost stories. So I would like to share one of the Roman genre, most of you have probably heard this one before but a good story bears repeating:
> >
> >
> >
> > An Ancient Ghost Story by Pliny the Younger
> >
> > Erat Athenis spatiosa et magna domus, sed infamis et pestilens. Per silentium noctis sonus ferri et strepitus vinculorum procul, tum e proximo auditi sunt. Mox apparebat senex macie et squalore confectus, qui barbam magnam et capillos villosos habebat; pedibus et manibus catenas habebat.
> >
> > Inhabitantes domus(gen) noctes diras et non somnum habebant. Morbus et etiam mors ex timore veniebant. Deserta et damna casa in silentio remanebat. Titulum positum est, sed nemo casam desideravit. Venit Athenas philosophus Athenodorus. Legit titulum, et pretio audito, multa rogat. Omnia audit, sed tamen casam capit.
> >
> > In vespera, Athenodorus lumen, stilum, et pugillares in prima parte casae posuit; tum omnes servos dimittit. Animum, oculos, et manum cum pugillaribus occupat, quod vacua mens multos timores fingit.
> >
> > Primo silentium est. Tum vincula procul audiuntur. Philosophus oculos non movet; stilo scribit. Soni in casa, tum in camera sunt. Athenodorus spectat; figuram videt. Senex stat et digito vocat. Athenodorus stilum iterum capit. Vincula audiuntur super caput. Nunc philosophus lumen capit. Senex tarde ad ianuam ambulat, et Athenodorus etiam ambulat post senem. In area casae senex philosophum deserit. Desertus philosophus in loco herbas ponit.
> >
> > Postero die magistratum vocat et magistratus locum effodit. Ossa inserta in vinculis invenit, et, collecta, publice sepeliuntur. Numquam iterum senex videbatur.
> >
> > There was in Athens a house, spacious and open, but with an infamous reputation, as if filled with pestilence. For in the dead of night, a noise like the clashing of iron could be heard. And if one listened carefully, it sounded like the rattling of chains. At first the noise seemed to be at a distance, but then it would approach, nearer, nearer, nearer. Suddenly a phantom would appear, an old man, pale and emaciated, with a long beard, and hair that appeared driven by the wind. The fetters on his feet and hands rattled as he moved them.
> > Any dwellers in the house passed sleepless nights under the most dismal terrors imaginable. The nights without rest led them to a kind of madness, and as the horrors in their minds increased, onto a path toward death. Even in the daytime--when the phantom did not appear--the memory of the nightmare was so strong that it still passed before their eyes. The terror remained when the cause of it was gone.
> > Damned as uninhabitable, the house was at last deserted, left to the spectral monster. But in hope that some tenant might be found who was unaware of the malevolence within it, the house was posted for rent or sale.
> > It happened that a philosopher named Athenodorus came to Athens at that time. Reading the posted bill, he discovered the dwelling's price. The extraordinary cheapness raised his suspicion, yet when he heard the whole story, he was not in the least put off. Indeed, he was eager to take the place. And did so immediately.
> > As evening drew near, Athenodorus had a couch prepared for him in the front section of the house. He asked for a light and his writing materials, then dismissed his retainers. To keep his mind from being distracted by vain terrors of imaginary noises and apparitions, he directed all his energy toward his writing.
> > For a time the night was silent. Then came the rattling of fetters. Athenodorus neither lifted up his eyes, nor laid down his pen. Instead he closed his ears by concentrating on his work. But the noise increased and advanced closer till it seemed to be at the door, and at last in the very chamber. Athenodorus looked round and saw the apparition exactly as it had been described to him. It stood before him, beckoning with one finger.
> > Athenodorus made a sign with his hand that the visitor should wait a little, and bent over his work. The ghost, however, shook the chains over the philosopher's head, beckoning as before. Athenodorus now took up his lamp and followed. The ghost moved slowly, as if held back by his chains. Once it reached the courtyard, it suddenly vanished.
> > Athenodorus, now deserted, carefully marked the spot with a handful of grass and leaves. The next day he asked the magistrate to have the spot dug up. There they found--intertwined with chains--the bones that were all that remained of a body that had long lain in the ground. Carefully, the skeletal relics were collected and given proper burial, at public expense. The tortured ancient was at rest. And the house in Athens was haunted no more.
> >
> > Valete optime,
> >
> > Julia
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Iulia Equitio Catoni omnibusque in foro S.P.D.
>
>
> Alas Senator Cato, it is that time of the year for us again – to engage in the topic of politics. It makes me sigh a bit because it puts me in mind of close personal friends with whom I never discuss politics because, despite our enjoyment of each others company, our politics are vastly different and at times at odds. Unfortunately you and I do not have that luxury to put it aside at this time of the year, and truly it is not so much our goals for the Res Publica that are so different but the way we both go about it, our perceptions and our methods.
> I, once again, am not surprised that you zeroed in on the quote I posted on Tacitus, esp. that segment;) to which you replied:
>
> >Precisely.
>
> Precisely SENATOR Cato?
> You as a Senator, a member of the Senate, should be more careful of such precision. I ask you to consider this: when you point your finger, Senator, so precisely - precisely three fingers point back at you.
>
> Cúráte ut valéatis atque di vos incolumes custodiant.
>
> Julia
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iuliae aquilae sal.
>
> Salve.
>
> I meant what I said. Precisely.
>
> Oh - I, like most orators, point with my whole hand.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@> wrote:
> >
> > Iulia Equitio Catoni omnibusque in foro S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Alas Senator Cato, it is that time of the year for us again – to engage in the topic of politics. It makes me sigh a bit because it puts me in mind of close personal friends with whom I never discuss politics because, despite our enjoyment of each others company, our politics are vastly different and at times at odds. Unfortunately you and I do not have that luxury to put it aside at this time of the year, and truly it is not so much our goals for the Res Publica that are so different but the way we both go about it, our perceptions and our methods.
> > I, once again, am not surprised that you zeroed in on the quote I posted on Tacitus, esp. that segment;) to which you replied:
> >
> > >Precisely.
> >
> > Precisely SENATOR Cato?
> > You as a Senator, a member of the Senate, should be more careful of such precision. I ask you to consider this: when you point your finger, Senator, so precisely - precisely three fingers point back at you.
> >
> > Cúráte ut valéatis atque di vos incolumes custodiant.
> >
> > Julia
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve Julia,
>
>
>
> WOW!!!! Is that yours?? Very nicely done!!!
>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Paulinus
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> From: dis_pensible@...
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:16:14 +0000
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Books are ( fill in the blank)
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvéte omnes,
>
> This is in response to Censor Paulinus' very nice offering of "Books are."
> It did not get much play because it just was not controversial enough – and Romans' love controversy. Or do they?
> I believe a few Novi Romani think this is true. I still believe some of this is due to the RPG influence, however - well here is my submission based purely on personal observation and opinion, with a little jest but with truth as I see it:
>
> Books are made from trees
> With many branches,
> That leads to knowledge,
> That leads to wisdom.
> That leads to entertainment.
> They touch our lives.
> Books are reflections of life,
> Books are examples of life,
> Books are not life.
> Without life books would not exist.
>
> Some emulate prominent figures in history
> Whether historical or fiction.
> Still some act as historical characters
> Culled from such fiction.
> So, when the stories are read –
> Readers' may, to some degree or other,
> Give an invented animus to the characters
> Forged by their own innate imagination
> To enjoy a unique, personal experience,
> As books leave much to the imagination.
>
> When acting transfers to real life
> This acting lacks Real Animus,
> It then becomes pale reflections
> Of that which it seeks to emulate;
> So suffers the actor's credibility
> As does the relevance to the current age.
> And so Books are enlightening too,
> For lately I have enjoyed two books,
> Roman Republic Historical fiction.
> Now I am illuminated by knowledge
> They've been enjoyed by those I know
>
> For now I recognize fictional characters
> In a few of those modern "Romans"
> Who play - act yet lack the animus verus
> Of those Ancients they play at.
>
> Valéte optimé,
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "ugo21121970" <ugo.coppola@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher
> > <spqr753@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok putting aside politics for the moment lets have some fun! You must
> > fill in with an appropriate quote OR something of your own.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It must start... Books are....
> >
> > This is a slogan for a campaign about book reading by the Italian
> > Ministry of Culture, but I find it quite poetical, so I'm quoting it
> > here:
> >
> > "Books are doors which open into worlds of boundless imagination -
> > whenever you want them to."
> >
> > Bene vale, et valete,
> > P. Annæus Constantinus Placidus
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "shantipole2001" <mark@...> wrote:
>
> I have been following Nova Roma for years and love what it stands for. My background is in the law and international politics and I have always wanted to take that extra step and get involved with NR as I believe the idea that was Rome still has resonance today.
>
> Unfortunately, whenever I check in to this list to see what is happening (which is getting less and less frequent)I always see the same thing, constant arguments that seem to descend into name calling with people quitting or threatening to quit and no real decorum and certainly very little real debate.
>
> I am sure the majority of the members of NR want this organization to flourish. A lot has been accomplished and much more can be done to present the group as a legitimate social, historical, legal and even political organization that represents the ideals of what ancient Rome was built on. I am all for passionate debate and the art of rhetoric but I can only assume that I am not alone when I read some of the petty squabbling that goes on here and just shake my head and move on. And that does not bode well for building NR into an active, viable organization that can move beyond its virtual roots to something more concrete.
>
> Anyhow that is my opinion as an outsider looking in. You can all take it for what it is worth. I invite all to respond to my concerns especially those of you who have been members for awhile and feel I am off base.
>
> All the best!
>

>Just FYI, it's called a "double dactyl", and traditionally starts off
>"higgledy-piggledy". It's *meant* to be goofy. Lighthearted. Silly, >even.
>I've been writing them for years.

> I even re-wrote the entire first book of "The Aenead" in double- dactyls :)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iuliae Aquilae omnibusque in Foro SPD
>
> Salvete!
>
> Just FYI, it's called a "double dactyl", and traditionally starts off "higgledy-piggledy". It's *meant* to be goofy. Lighthearted. Silly, even. I've been writing them for years.
>
> I even re-wrote the entire first book of "The Aenead" in double-dactyls :)
>
> Valete!
>
> Cato
>

>
>
> http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176522-Romania-Hotel-to-hire-medium-to\
> -deal-with-resident-ghost
> <http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176522-Romania-Hotel-to-hire-medium-t\
> o-deal-with-resident-ghost>
>
> Photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/4010062926/
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/4010062926/>
>
> A hotel in Romania recently became a site of interest for ghost hunters
> after a local photographed what appears to be a female spirit standing
> above its lobby stairwell. The hotel, named the Decebal, is situated in
> the mountain spa resort of Baile Herculane.
>
> Local, Victorian Loval aged 33 and her boyfriend snuck inside the hotel
> which has been closed for five years for renovations. While inside she
> snapped the photo, but only saw the ghost later, when she developed the
> film. The hotel is said to stand on an ancient Roman ruin and the ghost
> appears to be wearing the white robe of an ancient Roman priestess.
>
> Some have dismissed the photo as an illusion caused by irregular
> stonework in the lobby however others have been in the hotel since the
> event and swear that they saw the ghost. One group of students fled the
> building in fear after being confronted by the apparent spirit. Another
> man called a friend from inside the lobby in a panic after claiming to
> have seen its ghostly resident. Some have commented that she might be
> guarding something of ancient importance.
>
> Now it appears that the owner of the site is worried that this
> non-paying resident might be bad for business when the establishment
> re-opens. It is being reported in the Romanian press that the hotel
> management is planning to bring out a medium to make contact and ask the
> spirit why she remains and on what conditions she might 'check-out'.
>

>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I am preparing for a Halloween Bash in Nashville this weekend and part of that planning is to tell ghost stories. So I would like to share one of the Roman genre, most of you have probably heard this one before but a good story bears repeating:
>
>
>
> An Ancient Ghost Story by Pliny the Younger
>
> Erat Athenis spatiosa et magna domus, sed infamis et pestilens. Per silentium noctis sonus ferri et strepitus vinculorum procul, tum e proximo auditi sunt. Mox apparebat senex macie et squalore confectus, qui barbam magnam et capillos villosos habebat; pedibus et manibus catenas habebat.
>
> Inhabitantes domus(gen) noctes diras et non somnum habebant. Morbus et etiam mors ex timore veniebant. Deserta et damna casa in silentio remanebat. Titulum positum est, sed nemo casam desideravit. Venit Athenas philosophus Athenodorus. Legit titulum, et pretio audito, multa rogat. Omnia audit, sed tamen casam capit.
>
> In vespera, Athenodorus lumen, stilum, et pugillares in prima parte casae posuit; tum omnes servos dimittit. Animum, oculos, et manum cum pugillaribus occupat, quod vacua mens multos timores fingit.
>
> Primo silentium est. Tum vincula procul audiuntur. Philosophus oculos non movet; stilo scribit. Soni in casa, tum in camera sunt. Athenodorus spectat; figuram videt. Senex stat et digito vocat. Athenodorus stilum iterum capit. Vincula audiuntur super caput. Nunc philosophus lumen capit. Senex tarde ad ianuam ambulat, et Athenodorus etiam ambulat post senem. In area casae senex philosophum deserit. Desertus philosophus in loco herbas ponit.
>
> Postero die magistratum vocat et magistratus locum effodit. Ossa inserta in vinculis invenit, et, collecta, publice sepeliuntur. Numquam iterum senex videbatur.
>
> There was in Athens a house, spacious and open, but with an infamous reputation, as if filled with pestilence. For in the dead of night, a noise like the clashing of iron could be heard. And if one listened carefully, it sounded like the rattling of chains. At first the noise seemed to be at a distance, but then it would approach, nearer, nearer, nearer. Suddenly a phantom would appear, an old man, pale and emaciated, with a long beard, and hair that appeared driven by the wind. The fetters on his feet and hands rattled as he moved them.
> Any dwellers in the house passed sleepless nights under the most dismal terrors imaginable. The nights without rest led them to a kind of madness, and as the horrors in their minds increased, onto a path toward death. Even in the daytime--when the phantom did not appear--the memory of the nightmare was so strong that it still passed before their eyes. The terror remained when the cause of it was gone.
> Damned as uninhabitable, the house was at last deserted, left to the spectral monster. But in hope that some tenant might be found who was unaware of the malevolence within it, the house was posted for rent or sale.
> It happened that a philosopher named Athenodorus came to Athens at that time. Reading the posted bill, he discovered the dwelling's price. The extraordinary cheapness raised his suspicion, yet when he heard the whole story, he was not in the least put off. Indeed, he was eager to take the place. And did so immediately.
> As evening drew near, Athenodorus had a couch prepared for him in the front section of the house. He asked for a light and his writing materials, then dismissed his retainers. To keep his mind from being distracted by vain terrors of imaginary noises and apparitions, he directed all his energy toward his writing.
> For a time the night was silent. Then came the rattling of fetters. Athenodorus neither lifted up his eyes, nor laid down his pen. Instead he closed his ears by concentrating on his work. But the noise increased and advanced closer till it seemed to be at the door, and at last in the very chamber. Athenodorus looked round and saw the apparition exactly as it had been described to him. It stood before him, beckoning with one finger.
> Athenodorus made a sign with his hand that the visitor should wait a little, and bent over his work. The ghost, however, shook the chains over the philosopher's head, beckoning as before. Athenodorus now took up his lamp and followed. The ghost moved slowly, as if held back by his chains. Once it reached the courtyard, it suddenly vanished.
> Athenodorus, now deserted, carefully marked the spot with a handful of grass and leaves. The next day he asked the magistrate to have the spot dug up. There they found--intertwined with chains--the bones that were all that remained of a body that had long lain in the ground. Carefully, the skeletal relics were collected and given proper burial, at public expense. The tortured ancient was at rest. And the house in Athens was haunted no more.
>
> Valete optime,
>
> Julia
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus Shantipolo sal.
>
>
> Thank you for comment. I am very aware of the phenomenon, and I am glad when people like you share how they view NR from outside.
>
> I take your comment to re-emphasize my suggestion and very firm opinion that our public, official and main forum should be restricted only for informative, useful, interesting and mostly promotional material, e.g. info about NR events, polite and educated debates about vital questions about NR ideology and Roman topics, promotion and introduction of Nova Roma, sharing how to live our Roman lives etc.
>
> We would have to have another official mailing list for chatting convolutedly about everything and to fight internal political fights.
>
> I said it a hundred times, I say it again, I think this forum is constantly abused and is entirely not used as a Roman Forum where public speech was restricted and tolerated only if in a very dignified way.
>
> This mailing list, as it is currently, is absolutely not suitable for a main public forum of Nova Roma: it's a discussion and debate list.
>
>
>
>
> --- Mer 14/10/09, shantipole2001 <mark@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: shantipole2001 <mark@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] I want to get involved but...
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Mercoledì 14 ottobre 2009, 18:32
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been following Nova Roma for years and love what it stands for. My background is in the law and international politics and I have always wanted to take that extra step and get involved with NR as I believe the idea that was Rome still has resonance today.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, whenever I check in to this list to see what is happening (which is getting less and less frequent)I always see the same thing, constant arguments that seem to descend into name calling with people quitting or threatening to quit and no real decorum and certainly very little real debate.
>
>
>
> I am sure the majority of the members of NR want this organization to flourish. A lot has been accomplished and much more can be done to present the group as a legitimate social, historical, legal and even political organization that represents the ideals of what ancient Rome was built on. I am all for passionate debate and the art of rhetoric but I can only assume that I am not alone when I read some of the petty squabbling that goes on here and just shake my head and move on. And that does not bode well for building NR into an active, viable organization that can move beyond its virtual roots to something more concrete.
>
>
>
> Anyhow that is my opinion as an outsider looking in. You can all take it for what it is worth. I invite all to respond to my concerns especially those of you who have been members for awhile and feel I am off base.
>
>
>
> All the best!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi
> http://mail.yahoo.it
>

>
> There is a difference between meaningful disagreements of opinion and political posturing and personal attack, but the line is different for everyone, and assuming the lowest common denominator will only anger the more adult among us and do nothing to curb the more childish.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> L. Livia Plauta tribunibus S.P.D.
>
> It seems that the Senate is in session. Could one of you please post the Senate's agenda, and the expected date of voting?
>
> This is part of the tribunes' duties, you know.
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> there are 2 Nova Romas - an RPG one which is about politics and constant fighting and the real life one, where people learn, live and share Roman culture. Most on this list want to live in the 2nd, and people are turned away by the 1st.
> valete
> Maior
>
>
>
> -mutual. But we can - and should - express ourselves in vivid, living language, because that is how you get to know one another where physical proximity is not possible.
> >
> > There is a difference between meaningful disagreements of opinion and political posturing and personal attack, but the line is different for everyone, and assuming the lowest common denominator will only anger the more adult among us and do nothing to curb the more childish.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

 

Cato Maiori sal.

Salve.

Were politics important to the ancient Romans? Was there ever political intrigue or fighting in ancient Rome?

Was the law important to the ancient Romans? Were there ever clashes about the law and its interpretation in ancient Rome?

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...> wrote:
>
> Gaius Tullius Valerianus Gnaeo Cornelio Lentulo atque Maximae Valeriae
> Messallinae S.P.D.
> Ummm .. . don't we have that already? I mean, it's called the Back Alley,
> but the idea is the same . . .
>
> Curate ut valeatis!
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <
> maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > <<--- On *Wed, 10/14/09, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>*wrote:
> >
> > We would have to have another official mailing list for chatting
> > convolutedly about everything and to fight internal political fights.>>
> >
> > Didn't someone suggest we have a separate list for that and call it "The
> > Arena"? I even posted about how we should adapt the rules of the ancient
> > arena to that list.
> > Perhaps its time has come.
> >
> > Maxima Valeria Messallina
> >
> > _
> >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> The difference between the ancient Romans and us is that they had Rome. We
> live in a diasporic relationship between us as a people and our holy city.
> We do not have the grounding and centeredness that the ancient Romans had.
> Until we "clot" as a people we are just a group of people who think "Rome is
> cool." Not good enough.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Maiori sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > Were politics important to the ancient Romans? Was there ever political
> > intrigue or fighting in ancient Rome?
> >
> > Was the law important to the ancient Romans? Were there ever clashes about
> > the law and its interpretation in ancient Rome?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> Has anybody within NR with a solid understanding of Roman virtues
> thought of addressing some of the real world issues being discussed
> in the halls of the UN or EU?

> A Nova Roman will rightfully argue that the vurtues that ancient
> Rome were built on still resonate in 2009. How would a Nova Roman
> view issues like global warming, terrorism, multi-lateral
> international relations, crime and punishment, etc. seen through the
> lens of Roman ideals?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus <gawne@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Perigrine,
>
> shantipole2001 <mark@...> writes:
>
> > Has anybody within NR with a solid understanding of Roman virtues
> > thought of addressing some of the real world issues being discussed
> > in the halls of the UN or EU?
>
> I'm pretty sure no member of NR has contemplated addressing the UN or
> the EU. There have been times in the past when a NR Consul has
> attempted to get the Senate to make a statement in support of a
> current issue, but as far as I can recall the Senate has never agreed
> to endorse such a statement.
>
> > A Nova Roman will rightfully argue that the vurtues that ancient
> > Rome were built on still resonate in 2009. How would a Nova Roman
> > view issues like global warming, terrorism, multi-lateral
> > international relations, crime and punishment, etc. seen through the
> > lens of Roman ideals?
>
> Come on over to the Sodalitas Virtutis mailing list, and we'll talk
> about it. To join, send a blank e-mail message to
> SodalitasVirtutis-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or join at the Yahoo web
> page for the sodalitas, at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SodalitasVirtutis/
>
>
> Vale,
>
> CN-EQVIT-MARINVS
>

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

 

Cato Modiano sal.

Salve.

And I agree with you to a great extent - which is precisely why I feel a "common law" is important, not just "common interests". But if we try to pretend that people are not people, and do not act like normal people in a normal urban environment, we become role-players in an internet fantasy world.

Vale,

Cato

P.S. - did the ancient Romans refer to Rome as a "holy city"? A question, not a criticism. GEC

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:49 AM, shantipole2001 <mark@...> wrote:

 

Has anybody within NR with a solid understanding of Roman virtues thought of addressing some of the real world issues being discussed in the halls of the UN or EU?

A Nova Roman will rightfully argue that the vurtues that ancient Rome were built on still resonate in 2009. How would a Nova Roman view issues like global warming, terrorism, multi-lateral international relations, crime and punishment, etc. seen through the lens of Roman ideals?

How can Nova Romans participate at a local, national and global political level and how would their Nova Roman roots and beliefs color their approach to the political questions of the day?

Does Nova Roma have a position on any of these topical questions? How can Nova Roma attempt to apply their beliefs to the reality of today to show that it is a true living, breathing and relevant belief system?

Much in the same way that the Roman Catholic Church interprets today's events through their belief system, do Nova Romans as a group ever do the same thing?

These are all questions I personally find fascinating. I am just not sure if they are relevant to what is going on in NR today but the quote in my subject line is directly from the FAQ so I do hold out hope.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "mcorvvs" <mcorvvs@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete collega,
>
> At Ides Octobribus I, M.Octavius Corvus on behalf of People of Nova Roma performed Ides ritual for IOM, using the pattern sent to me by PM M.Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.
> Rite was performed before the altar of Iuppiter.
> Sacrifice was: incense, libum, wine. My middle son assisted me. During the ritual there was a complete silencium. Righ after the sacrifice about 30 thrushes forming one line from left to right flew from the North toward me. I consider this like a clear good sign of my sacrifice accepted. The smoke from the cauldron went to the north direction. That also signify that sacrifice
>
> Optime valete,
>
> CORVVS
>

>other places in Rumania there are Dracula tours, and they can have a "ghost
>tour

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia,
> maybe they should publicize the ghost instead of trying to chase it out. In other places in Rumania there are Dracula tours, and they can have a "ghost tour".
>
> Vale,
> Livia
> >
> >
> > http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176522-Romania-Hotel-to-hire-medium-to\
> > -deal-with-resident-ghost
> > <http://www.sott.net/articles/show/176522-Romania-Hotel-to-hire-medium-t\
> > o-deal-with-resident-ghost>
> >
> > Photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/4010062926/
> > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/l_j_a/4010062926/>
> >
> > A hotel in Romania recently became a site of interest for ghost hunters
> > after a local photographed what appears to be a female spirit standing
> > above its lobby stairwell. The hotel, named the Decebal, is situated in
> > the mountain spa resort of Baile Herculane.
> >
> > Local, Victorian Loval aged 33 and her boyfriend snuck inside the hotel
> > which has been closed for five years for renovations. While inside she
> > snapped the photo, but only saw the ghost later, when she developed the
> > film. The hotel is said to stand on an ancient Roman ruin and the ghost
> > appears to be wearing the white robe of an ancient Roman priestess.
> >
> > Some have dismissed the photo as an illusion caused by irregular
> > stonework in the lobby however others have been in the hotel since the
> > event and swear that they saw the ghost. One group of students fled the
> > building in fear after being confronted by the apparent spirit. Another
> > man called a friend from inside the lobby in a panic after claiming to
> > have seen its ghostly resident. Some have commented that she might be
> > guarding something of ancient importance.
> >
> > Now it appears that the owner of the site is worried that this
> > non-paying resident might be bad for business when the establishment
> > re-opens. It is being reported in the Romanian press that the hotel
> > management is planning to bring out a medium to make contact and ask the
> > spirit why she remains and on what conditions she might 'check-out'.
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia,
> heard it before, but this time it was nice to read it in Latin. It turns out Pliny the youger is absolutely easy to read.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I am preparing for a Halloween Bash in Nashville this weekend and part of that planning is to tell ghost stories. So I would like to share one of the Roman genre, most of you have probably heard this one before but a good story bears repeating:
> >
> >
> >
> > An Ancient Ghost Story by Pliny the Younger
> >
> > Erat Athenis spatiosa et magna domus, sed infamis et pestilens. Per silentium noctis sonus ferri et strepitus vinculorum procul, tum e proximo auditi sunt. Mox apparebat senex macie et squalore confectus, qui barbam magnam et capillos villosos habebat; pedibus et manibus catenas habebat.
> >
> > Inhabitantes domus(gen) noctes diras et non somnum habebant. Morbus et etiam mors ex timore veniebant. Deserta et damna casa in silentio remanebat. Titulum positum est, sed nemo casam desideravit. Venit Athenas philosophus Athenodorus. Legit titulum, et pretio audito, multa rogat. Omnia audit, sed tamen casam capit.
> >
> > In vespera, Athenodorus lumen, stilum, et pugillares in prima parte casae posuit; tum omnes servos dimittit. Animum, oculos, et manum cum pugillaribus occupat, quod vacua mens multos timores fingit.
> >
> > Primo silentium est. Tum vincula procul audiuntur. Philosophus oculos non movet; stilo scribit. Soni in casa, tum in camera sunt. Athenodorus spectat; figuram videt. Senex stat et digito vocat. Athenodorus stilum iterum capit. Vincula audiuntur super caput. Nunc philosophus lumen capit. Senex tarde ad ianuam ambulat, et Athenodorus etiam ambulat post senem. In area casae senex philosophum deserit. Desertus philosophus in loco herbas ponit.
> >
> > Postero die magistratum vocat et magistratus locum effodit. Ossa inserta in vinculis invenit, et, collecta, publice sepeliuntur. Numquam iterum senex videbatur.
> >
> > There was in Athens a house, spacious and open, but with an infamous reputation, as if filled with pestilence. For in the dead of night, a noise like the clashing of iron could be heard. And if one listened carefully, it sounded like the rattling of chains. At first the noise seemed to be at a distance, but then it would approach, nearer, nearer, nearer. Suddenly a phantom would appear, an old man, pale and emaciated, with a long beard, and hair that appeared driven by the wind. The fetters on his feet and hands rattled as he moved them.
> > Any dwellers in the house passed sleepless nights under the most dismal terrors imaginable. The nights without rest led them to a kind of madness, and as the horrors in their minds increased, onto a path toward death. Even in the daytime--when the phantom did not appear--the memory of the nightmare was so strong that it still passed before their eyes. The terror remained when the cause of it was gone.
> > Damned as uninhabitable, the house was at last deserted, left to the spectral monster. But in hope that some tenant might be found who was unaware of the malevolence within it, the house was posted for rent or sale.
> > It happened that a philosopher named Athenodorus came to Athens at that time. Reading the posted bill, he discovered the dwelling's price. The extraordinary cheapness raised his suspicion, yet when he heard the whole story, he was not in the least put off. Indeed, he was eager to take the place. And did so immediately.
> > As evening drew near, Athenodorus had a couch prepared for him in the front section of the house. He asked for a light and his writing materials, then dismissed his retainers. To keep his mind from being distracted by vain terrors of imaginary noises and apparitions, he directed all his energy toward his writing.
> > For a time the night was silent. Then came the rattling of fetters. Athenodorus neither lifted up his eyes, nor laid down his pen. Instead he closed his ears by concentrating on his work. But the noise increased and advanced closer till it seemed to be at the door, and at last in the very chamber. Athenodorus looked round and saw the apparition exactly as it had been described to him. It stood before him, beckoning with one finger.
> > Athenodorus made a sign with his hand that the visitor should wait a little, and bent over his work. The ghost, however, shook the chains over the philosopher's head, beckoning as before. Athenodorus now took up his lamp and followed. The ghost moved slowly, as if held back by his chains. Once it reached the courtyard, it suddenly vanished.
> > Athenodorus, now deserted, carefully marked the spot with a handful of grass and leaves. The next day he asked the magistrate to have the spot dug up. There they found--intertwined with chains--the bones that were all that remained of a body that had long lain in the ground. Carefully, the skeletal relics were collected and given proper burial, at public expense. The tortured ancient was at rest. And the house in Athens was haunted no more.
> >
> > Valete optime,
> >
> > Julia
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "livia_plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia,
> heard it before, but this time it was nice to read it in Latin. It turns out Pliny the youger is absolutely easy to read.
>
> Vale,
> Livia
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I am preparing for a Halloween Bash in Nashville this weekend and part of that planning is to tell ghost stories. So I would like to share one of the Roman genre, most of you have probably heard this one before but a good story bears repeating:
> >
> >
> >
> > An Ancient Ghost Story by Pliny the Younger
> >
> > Erat Athenis spatiosa et magna domus, sed infamis et pestilens. Per silentium noctis sonus ferri et strepitus vinculorum procul, tum e proximo auditi sunt. Mox apparebat senex macie et squalore confectus, qui barbam magnam et capillos villosos habebat; pedibus et manibus catenas habebat.
> >
> > Inhabitantes domus(gen) noctes diras et non somnum habebant. Morbus et etiam mors ex timore veniebant. Deserta et damna casa in silentio remanebat. Titulum positum est, sed nemo casam desideravit. Venit Athenas philosophus Athenodorus. Legit titulum, et pretio audito, multa rogat. Omnia audit, sed tamen casam capit.
> >
> > In vespera, Athenodorus lumen, stilum, et pugillares in prima parte casae posuit; tum omnes servos dimittit. Animum, oculos, et manum cum pugillaribus occupat, quod vacua mens multos timores fingit.
> >
> > Primo silentium est. Tum vincula procul audiuntur. Philosophus oculos non movet; stilo scribit. Soni in casa, tum in camera sunt. Athenodorus spectat; figuram videt. Senex stat et digito vocat. Athenodorus stilum iterum capit. Vincula audiuntur super caput. Nunc philosophus lumen capit. Senex tarde ad ianuam ambulat, et Athenodorus etiam ambulat post senem. In area casae senex philosophum deserit. Desertus philosophus in loco herbas ponit.
> >
> > Postero die magistratum vocat et magistratus locum effodit. Ossa inserta in vinculis invenit, et, collecta, publice sepeliuntur. Numquam iterum senex videbatur.
> >
> > There was in Athens a house, spacious and open, but with an infamous reputation, as if filled with pestilence. For in the dead of night, a noise like the clashing of iron could be heard. And if one listened carefully, it sounded like the rattling of chains. At first the noise seemed to be at a distance, but then it would approach, nearer, nearer, nearer. Suddenly a phantom would appear, an old man, pale and emaciated, with a long beard, and hair that appeared driven by the wind. The fetters on his feet and hands rattled as he moved them.
> > Any dwellers in the house passed sleepless nights under the most dismal terrors imaginable. The nights without rest led them to a kind of madness, and as the horrors in their minds increased, onto a path toward death. Even in the daytime--when the phantom did not appear--the memory of the nightmare was so strong that it still passed before their eyes. The terror remained when the cause of it was gone.
> > Damned as uninhabitable, the house was at last deserted, left to the spectral monster. But in hope that some tenant might be found who was unaware of the malevolence within it, the house was posted for rent or sale.
> > It happened that a philosopher named Athenodorus came to Athens at that time. Reading the posted bill, he discovered the dwelling's price. The extraordinary cheapness raised his suspicion, yet when he heard the whole story, he was not in the least put off. Indeed, he was eager to take the place. And did so immediately.
> > As evening drew near, Athenodorus had a couch prepared for him in the front section of the house. He asked for a light and his writing materials, then dismissed his retainers. To keep his mind from being distracted by vain terrors of imaginary noises and apparitions, he directed all his energy toward his writing.
> > For a time the night was silent. Then came the rattling of fetters. Athenodorus neither lifted up his eyes, nor laid down his pen. Instead he closed his ears by concentrating on his work. But the noise increased and advanced closer till it seemed to be at the door, and at last in the very chamber. Athenodorus looked round and saw the apparition exactly as it had been described to him. It stood before him, beckoning with one finger.
> > Athenodorus made a sign with his hand that the visitor should wait a little, and bent over his work. The ghost, however, shook the chains over the philosopher's head, beckoning as before. Athenodorus now took up his lamp and followed. The ghost moved slowly, as if held back by his chains. Once it reached the courtyard, it suddenly vanished.
> > Athenodorus, now deserted, carefully marked the spot with a handful of grass and leaves. The next day he asked the magistrate to have the spot dug up. There they found--intertwined with chains--the bones that were all that remained of a body that had long lain in the ground. Carefully, the skeletal relics were collected and given proper burial, at public expense. The tortured ancient was at rest. And the house in Athens was haunted no more.
> >
> > Valete optime,
> >
> > Julia
> >
>

>debate and the art of rhetoric but I can only assume that I am not alone when I
>read some of the petty squabbling that goes on here and just shake my head and
>move on."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> *I* used the term holy city because we are in a diasporic relationship with
> Rome and Rome has an iconic factor to us as Nova Romans; therefore, the
> 'sacred' nature of the city itself -- personified in the form of the goddess
> Roma.
>
> Nova Roma NEEDS to work on its culture. Right now the culture is more so
> dysfunctional and that needs to change.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Modiano sal.
> >
> > Salve.
> >
> > And I agree with you to a great extent - which is precisely why I feel a
> > "common law" is important, not just "common interests". But if we try to
> > pretend that people are not people, and do not act like normal people in a
> > normal urban environment, we become role-players in an internet fantasy
> > world.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > P.S. - did the ancient Romans refer to Rome as a "holy city"? A question,
> > not a criticism. GEC
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Iulia Shantipolo omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma:) Your opinion is important as you are part of the tapestry that makes up our Res Publica. As Lentulus said:" I am glad when people like you share how they view NR from outside."
>
> Way too often new members get lost in the flurry of posts and personalities. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have questions.
>
> Shantipole: >"I am all for passionate
> >debate and the art of rhetoric but I can only assume that I am not alone when I
> >read some of the petty squabbling that goes on here and just shake my head and
> >move on."
>
> Good idea. There are many wonderful gems amongst the different threads, either do a search or sift back through the older threads yourself.
> If you do not see something that interests you please, by all means, feel free to begin a topic yourself or simply ask a question.
> I do not have the ML delivered to my inbox in its entirety; I prefer to read it online – I only get a few emails specific to my moderation duties. You can change your settings if this is easier for you.
>
> What Maior says is so true: "Nova Roma can be so great when you share the vision and live your Romanitas; the values of Ancient Rome. It has immeasurably enriched my life since that very first day and given me my closest friends."
>
> As you may have observed each individual has their own perception of how to live their Romanitas; some are more alike than different and some vary widely.
>
> Cato: > "So Iulia Aquila and I can throw barbs at each other without assuming that
> because we differ in approach we differ in goal. I respect her knowledge and,
> above all, her love of things Roman and her desire to see the Respublica
> flourish. I hope the feeling is mutual."
>
> It was not a personal debate; and it was debate, not an argument. Our politics are different but we both hold Roma close to our hearts and both deeply desire that the Res Publica flourish and succeed. Limits were pushed just far enough so the issues would not dissolve and with a recognition or realization that all that could be, or should be, said about the issue had occurred it was then brought to a humorous denouement (although I think mine was funnier :>); without intercession from the Praetores.
> There was no anger or ill will involved, on my part I can say for certain.
> I come from a culture where I have seen professionals fight in court, debate in political and academic arenas yet when the issue is exhausted or a time out/recess called, friendly conversations ensue and friendships are rekindled. This was also an art in ancient Rome – of course bitter rivalries sometimes morphed into close friendships if they didn't kill each other or poison each other first *laughs.*
>
> Nothing, absolutely nothing, stops any citizen, potential citizen or guest from writing to the Praetors or moderators with a concern of complaint. Many times Praetors and moderators do step in when things get out of hand and even before that a discussion or two may ensue between the moderation staff because of such issues as right of speech, of expression. It is a judgment call.
>
> MVM: Didn't someone suggest we have a separate list for that and call it "The Arena"? I even posted about how we should adapt the rules of the ancient arena to that list. Perhaps its time has come.
>
> Good Idea. *laughs* For as long as I can remember every time I see some of the more fervent and disturbing arguments that digress into personal attacks and name-calling I have entertained the idea that we should have a ML called "The Coliseum" and let opponents debate, argue and verbally spar to their hearts content.
>
> Aganin welcome, glad to have you with us~
>
> Valé optimé,
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
> >
> > *I* used the term holy city because we are in a diasporic relationship with
> > Rome and Rome has an iconic factor to us as Nova Romans; therefore, the
> > 'sacred' nature of the city itself -- personified in the form of the goddess
> > Roma.
> >
> > Nova Roma NEEDS to work on its culture. Right now the culture is more so
> > dysfunctional and that needs to change.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Modianus
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Modiano sal.
> > >
> > > Salve.
> > >
> > > And I agree with you to a great extent - which is precisely why I feel a
> > > "common law" is important, not just "common interests". But if we try to
> > > pretend that people are not people, and do not act like normal people in a
> > > normal urban environment, we become role-players in an internet fantasy
> > > world.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > P.S. - did the ancient Romans refer to Rome as a "holy city"? A question,
> > > not a criticism. GEC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>