M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Di Deaeque vos salvas et servatas volunt.

Hodie est ante diem IV Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est:

AUC 752 / 1 BC: Gaius Caesar departs for the east, where, in 4 CE, he died from a wound that he suffered while campaigning near Artagira, Armenia.

"Gaius assumed command of the legions on the Ister with peaceful intent. Indeed, he fought no war, not because no war broke out, but because he was learning to rule in quiet and safety, while the dangerous undertakings were regularly assigned to others.

"When the Armenians revolted and the Parthians joined with them, Augustus was distressed and at a loss what to do. For he himself was not fit for campaigning by reason of age, while Tiberius, as has been stated, had already withdrawn, and he did not dare send any other influential man; as for Gaius and Lucius, they were young and inexperienced in affairs. Nevertheless, under the stress of necessity, he chose Gaius, gave him the proconsular authority and a wife, in order that he might also have the increased dignity that attached to a married man, and appointed advisers to him. Gaius accordingly set out and was everywhere received with marks of distinction, as befitted one who was the emperor's grandson and was even looked upon as his son. Even Tiberius went to Chios and paid court to him, thus endeavouring to clear himself of suspicion; indeed, he humiliated himself and grovelled at the feet, not only of Gaius, but also of all the associates of Gaius. And Gaius, after going to Syria and meeting with no great success, was wounded.

"When the barbarians heard of Gaius' expedition, Phrataces sent men to Augustus to explain what had occurred and to demand the return of his brothers on condition of his accepting peace. The emperor sent him a letter in reply, addressed simply to "Phrataces," without the appellation of "king," in which he directed him to lay aside the royal name and to withdraw from Armenia. Thereupon the Parthian, so far from being cowed, wrote back in a generally haughty tone, styling himself "King of Kings" and addressing Augustus simply as "Caesar." Tigranes did not at once send any envoys, but when Artabazus somewhat later fell ill and died, he sent gifts to Augustus, in view of the fact that his rival had been removed, and though he did not mention the name "king" in his letter, he really did petition Augustus for the kingship. Influenced by these considerations and at the same time fearing the war with the Parthians, the emperor accepted the gifts and bade him go with good hopes to Gaius in Syria." ~ Dio Cassius 55.10.17-21


Numa Pomilius and the Vestales Virgines

"[Numa] chose virgin priestesses for Vesta. This priesthood originated at Alba and was not therefor alien to the founder of Rome. So that these priestesses should be able to devote their whole time to temple service, he provided them with an income from public funds; he conferred a special sanctity on them by ritual obligations, including the keeping of their virginity." ~ Titus Livius 1.20

"At first, they say, Numa consecrated Gegania and Verania, followed by Canuleia and Tarpeia... Numa gave them great honors, among which was the right to make a will during the lifetime of their father and to deal with their other affairs without the need for a guardian, like mothers of three children." ~ Plutarch, Life of Numa 10.1; 10.3

"But as to the method and ritual for choosing a Vestal, there are, it is true, no ancient written records, except that the first to be appointed was chosen by Numa. There is, however, a lex Papia that provides that twenty maidens be selected from the people at the discretion of the Pontifex Maximus, that a choice by lot be made from their number in the comitia calata, and that the girl whose lot is drawn be "taken" by the Pontifex Maximus and becomes a priestess of Vesta. But that allotment in accordance with the lex Papia is usually unnecessary at present. For if any man of respectable birth goes to the Pontifex Maximus and offers his daughter for the priestesshood, provided consideration may be given to her candidacy without violating any religious requirements, the Senate grants him exemption from the lex Papia." ~ Gellius, Noctes Atticae 1.12.11-12

Following the expulsion of the Tarquinii, the Numa tradition was supposedly restored by a lex Postuma. The Numa tradition had to be restored again sometime later by what was called the lex Papia. This lex Papia was not the lex Papia Poppaea of 250 BCE. Instead it is thought that the lex Papia is what Livy referred to when discussing how the oral tradition of the Pontifices, extending back to Numa Pompilius, had to be written down following the Gallic sack of Rome in 390 BCE. Postumus and Papius were Pontifices Maximi of earlier years.


Today's thought is from Heracleitus, Fragment 102, in Porhyrius I Iliadem IV 4.

"To God all things are beautiful and good and just, but men have supposed some things to be just, others unjust."

M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus: P. Memmio K. Fabio Consulibus, Senatoribus Patribus Mátribusque Conscriptís, viris clarissimis et castissimae mulieribus, Pontificibus, Maximae Valeriae Messallinae, Virgine Vestalis Maximae, Flaminibus, civibus, Quiritibus et omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

I am pleased to announce that the Collegium Pontificum, having met in session last week, has arrived at the following decisions.

ITEM I: All Pontifices are retained.

__________________

ITEM II: M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus is retained as Pontifex Maximus.

__________________

ITEM III:

3.a Adlection of New Sacerdotes

The following individuals have been accepted to sacerdotal offices by the Collegium Pontificum. They must now be inaugurated before the Comitia Curiata before taking office. Congratulations to each one of them.

M. Lucretius Agricola is adlected Augur publicus.

Camilla Julia Aquila is adlected Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis.

Gaia Aurelia Ibera is adlected Sacerdos Vestalis under the training of Maxima Valeria Mesallina, Virgo Vestalis Maxima.

Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia is adlected Sacerdos Mithrae.


3.b Acceptance to the Camillus Program

The following individuals are accepted to the Camillus Program wherein they shall receive instruction from members of the Collegium Pontificum, in order to prepare them for future sacerdotal offices:

Titus Cassius Longinus
Lucius Coruncanius Cato
Appius Galerius Aurelianus
Titus Iulius Calvus
Marcus Octavius Corvus
Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
Gaius Coceius Spinula

_______________

ITEM IV: Passed: Decretum de Maiestate

The Collegium Pontificum hereby revokes the Decretum Pontificum passed on 25 Feb. AUC 2756 concerning the blasphemy clause of the Constitution VI.A.

_______________

ITEM V: Passed: Decretum de Libris Pontifici Novae Romae

Pars I: The Leges Regia, fragmenta Libri Pontifici and the Commentarii on those laws, as have been collected and may yet be discovered, shall be recognized by the Collegium Pontificum as the basis of the traditional practice of the religio
Romana

Pars II: Future responsa of the Pontifices may refer to these ancient texts in support of their determinations, and thus, through the commentaries of our Pontifices, Libri Pontifici shall evolve for Nova Roma from the accepted and ancient traditions of the religio Romana.

_______________

ITEM VI.a: Passed: Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile

The Decretum passed on pridie Nonas Sextilias MMDCCLVII (4 Aug 2004) amending a previous Decretum Pontificum, passed on ante diem VIII Kalendas Aprilis 2754 (25 March 2001) in regard to the official civil calender of Nova Roma is hereby amended.

I. The Official Calendar of Nova Roma will be the Gregorian Calendar with the following modifications:

A. Years will be reckoned from the founding of Rome (ab Urbe condita) rather than the common era.
B. The addition of intercalary days will be determined by the Gregorian formula using the common era as a reference, but will be inserted between Ante Diem VII Kalendas Martias (Terminalia/23 February) and Ante Diem VI Kalendas Martias (Regifugium/24 February).

II. The month names of the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the Gregorian calendar will be the names of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma. The religious calendar shall retain the names of months used under the Julian calendrical reform.

III. To fulfill the Vow of adding an additional dies nefastus to the official civil calendar, dies pristinus Kal. Ian. (31 December) was designated by the previous decretum pontificum as dies nefastus. This date shall remain dies nefastus and is now designated as feriae Civilia. Magistrates whose term of office is to conclude at the end of this day ought to perform private piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may have occurred during their year in office. Newly designated magistrates whose term of office shall begin on the following date, the Kalends of January, ought to also perform private piacula for their Lares, Penates, and to the Di superi for whose cultus they shall be responsible in the coming year. Public celebrations for Civilia shall be conducted by the pontifices to invite the the Gods to bless the transition of imperium and
auspicium between former and new magistrates.

IV. Also to fulfill the previous vow, the Pontifices shall continue to perform the annual end of year piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may have occurred during the previous year. These piacula shall be performed by the end of the religious year that concludes with Terminalia, ante diem VII Kalendas Martis (23 February).

V. All official dates of the civil calendar in Nova Roma shalll be stated in Roman reckoning, by noting the number of days in Roman notation before the Kalends, Nones, and Ides of each month, and the year given in Roman notation ab Urbe condita along with the consular year. On official documents such notation will be followed by a restating of the date in modern notation inside parentheses.

NOTE: Parts of this decretum may be revisited later this year when the official calendar is again reviewed for the following year.

_________________

VI.b: Passed Decretum Pontificum de Fastis AUC MMDCCLXIII

The Calendar posted by Pontifex Cn. Cornelius to the Nova Roma website, as amended under the Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile, is the official calendar of Nova Roma for AUC MMDCCLXIII P. Memmio K. Fabio Buteone coss.


Di Deaeque immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.


In other matters, great concern was expressed over the manner that women have been met with insults and intimidation in Nova Roma. Especially distressing is that this has occurred to Vestales and to those who trained as Vestales, as well as other female sacerdotes and to senatrices. Such behavior has caused all of Nova Roma to lose valuable members of our community, including three senatrices and two women training as Vestales last year. Such behavior reflects poorly on all of Nova Roma and on all our Citizens. Most distressing is that some of the grossest insults towards women have come from members of the Senate and some members of the Collegium Pontificum itself. When asked to apologize publicly for comments they had made in public fora, one Senator took it as a personal challenge, while a Pontifex simply refused. As was expressed in our collegial discussions by Pontifex and Censor T. Sabinus, there is a limit to the patience of the Collegium Pontificum when it comes to those who show disrepect towards the Religio Romana and who show disrespect towards those sacerdotes who practice the sacra publica at their own time and expense for the benefit of all Nova Roma Citizens. For the time being a decision on these matters await further discussion while the Collegium Pontificum considers a proper response to such misconduct.

As Pontifex Maximus I call upon our Censores, Consules and Praetores to take a firm stand against the verbal abuse and intimidation of women, as such misbehavior still degrades our community in Nova Roma and severely limits Nova Roma's ability to grow and develop. Women provide a vital role in the cultus Deorum and we in turn need to provide them with respect and consideration in a welcoming community that appreciates their contributions.


Di Deaeque vos bene ament. Ite numinibus votisque secundetis.

ab manu M. Moravii a. d. IV Kal. Feb. AUC MMDCCLXIII in anno P. Memmio K. Fabio Buteone coss.

Salvete Maior et omnes!

I'd love to start writing, but I would have to start in English. My Latin is at a very basic level (I just figured out dates so I could print my wedding invites), but I give anyone major kudos to anyone who can make lovely music and hymns in a foreign language! I'll look at my English resource book that has a very good section about different meters.

Right now my big musical project is to learn to play the Roman tuba strong and loud. We have some army commands that we will play for my group, Legion VI and at another event. I am a French horn player so the ambochure is different and I'm not used to the lack of valves. We have also aquired a harp/lyre in our group and us young 'uns compose bawdy hymns to Bacchus.

I'm doing this for a very cool 3-day Roman re-enactment event called A.D. 43/Fort Lafe. It is a total immersion event (you can sleep in the barracks in the fort if you like, eat at the vicus). We do military drills, hikes, engineering and ditch digging; guard duty and of course we fight the Celts up the road. As a cornicen I am an officer and I'm so excited! If you want to see this great event (I'd suggest actually participating- you can come as a civilian), check out http://ad43.org

Vale,

L. Lucia Antonia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Messallina et omnes;
> this is a great station. They are hymns in Greek and Carmina in Latin, we pagans came up with the first ones:)
>
> So yes, I wish I were musical as I'd write a carmen (singular) in a second. Praising the gods is such a fantastic thing to do:) Auriga it would be great if you tried writing or playing something.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "fauxrari" <drivergirl@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > Cool radio station! I double majored in English and Musicology so it's always a treat to hear new types of music.
> >
> > I like the idea of composing a hymn. Most ancient literary works were meant to be sung and then there's the chorus in plays, too. If you understand the different literary meters and structures of the literary work, it's very hard not to sing it. It's reminds me of rap music (please don't hit me), since that is a genre of music that relies heavily on the metrical recitation of a 'poem.' I also imagine both generes would involve singing as well as lyrical recitation...
> >
> > Anyhow, I digress... I just came upon a CD of re-created Roman music. The CD is called "Somnia Imperii," and was composed by David Marshall. The subtitle says "Evoking dreams of empire" and it was played on reconstructed instruments by the Praecones Britanniae. It's a pretty good CD. The cornicen isn't that great (I also play this instrument and the Roman tuba, so I'm a harsh critic). What's really interesting is at about track 4 or 5 both a man and a woman begin what I'd call Roman rap, a very lyrical recitation of, I'm assuming, ancient texts. An English translation follows- and the beginning it's definitely assumes the same subject as many rap songs- a 'dirty' dancer gyrating her hips as she seduces men in the taverna. My favorite is this powerful invocation to the goddess Nemesis. There's more singing and the meter really pushes the invocation on to a climax. I could definitely see different meteres/instruments coming in to evoke a certain diety, as has been seen in so many classical operas and symphonies (Think 'Peter and the Wolf'). So the end of the story is that everything old is new again- our ancestors invented a musical way of storytelling that has survived to this day.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > L. Antonia Auriga
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maria Valeriae sal,
> > >
> > > Amica, I have to know ...because I'm curious, and because you play my favorite musical instrument ...did you put what I wrote to music? If you did ...is there *any* chance that I could hear it (without coming out there, which, had I the funds and time, etc. etc. I would quite happily do?
> > >
> > > Vale quam optime,
> > > C. Maria Caeca, who will be adding that link almost immediately ...and reading the link Julia Aquila posted (gratias, Amica!), and ...and ...oh, yes ...reflexive pronouns! How *could* I forget? (smile).
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Salvete omnes,
I would like to congratulate the new sacerdotes.
Specially my friend Julia Aquila, who I'm sure is already a very competent
sacerdos for Venus Genetrix.
I'm very glad to see a new augur in the person of Agricola. I'm sure he will
perform successfully this ungrateful job (involving early rises and outdoor
activity in all weathers).
Thank you, Agricola, for doing this!

Optime valete,
Livia

Salvete omnes,
there are several CD's of reconstructed Roman music around. My favourite is
by a Roman group called Ludi Scaenici, but the german group Musica Romana is
also very good.
Their albums can be downloaded legally from http://mp3legal.org That's how I
got them for the Saturnalia party last year.
The hymn to Nemesis is one of the few actual scores surviving from
antiquity. Another one is the hymn to Helios. These are usually featured by
all music reconstructionist groups, and usually the other compositions are
not on par with these. It seems Mesomedes from Crete was really a good
composer, even based on these few fragments. Mesomedes' compositions can be
all found on Youtube, in various versions.

Optime valete,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "fauxrari" <drivergirl@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pagan Hymns?


Salve!

Cool radio station! I double majored in English and Musicology so it's
always a treat to hear new types of music.

I like the idea of composing a hymn. Most ancient literary works were meant
to be sung and then there's the chorus in plays, too. If you understand the
different literary meters and structures of the literary work, it's very
hard not to sing it. It's reminds me of rap music (please don't hit me),
since that is a genre of music that relies heavily on the metrical
recitation of a 'poem.' I also imagine both generes would involve singing as
well as lyrical recitation...

Anyhow, I digress... I just came upon a CD of re-created Roman music. The CD
is called "Somnia Imperii," and was composed by David Marshall. The subtitle
says "Evoking dreams of empire" and it was played on reconstructed
instruments by the Praecones Britanniae. It's a pretty good CD. The cornicen
isn't that great (I also play this instrument and the Roman tuba, so I'm a
harsh critic). What's really interesting is at about track 4 or 5 both a man
and a woman begin what I'd call Roman rap, a very lyrical recitation of, I'm
assuming, ancient texts. An English translation follows- and the beginning
it's definitely assumes the same subject as many rap songs- a 'dirty' dancer
gyrating her hips as she seduces men in the taverna. My favorite is this
powerful invocation to the goddess Nemesis. There's more singing and the
meter really pushes the invocation on to a climax. I could definitely see
different meteres/instruments coming in to evoke a certain diety, as has
been seen in so many classical operas and symphonies (Think 'Peter and the
Wolf'). So the end of the story is that everything old is new again- our
ancestors invented a musical way of storytelling that has survived to this
day.

Vale,

L. Antonia Auriga

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Maria Valeriae sal,
>
> Amica, I have to know ...because I'm curious, and because you play my
> favorite musical instrument ...did you put what I wrote to music? If you
> did ...is there *any* chance that I could hear it (without coming out
> there, which, had I the funds and time, etc. etc. I would quite happily
> do?
>
> Vale quam optime,
> C. Maria Caeca, who will be adding that link almost immediately ...and
> reading the link Julia Aquila posted (gratias, Amica!), and ...and ...oh,
> yes ...reflexive pronouns! How *could* I forget? (smile).
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve,
This thread is going good but I thought that I should point out that when I started it I meant modern hymns, in the sense of using modern instruments and a modern sound. For example rock hymns, etc. There is a whole genre of music that is christian and I was curious about the Pagan equivalent. An example would be the song "our god is an awesome god" that song is so easily changed to "our Gods are awesome Gods" Another song by the newsboys I believe is a song called spirit thing look it up in you tube because it really is religiously ambiguous

and could apply to any religion. Don't get Me wrong ancient hymns are nice but as a lover of all music I'd like to hear some modern stuff too.
DVIC
Nero


________________________________
From: L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 3:14:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pagan Hymns?


Salvete omnes,
there are several CD's of reconstructed Roman music around. My favourite is
by a Roman group called Ludi Scaenici, but the german group Musica Romana is
also very good.
Their albums can be downloaded legally from http://mp3legal. org That's how I
got them for the Saturnalia party last year.
The hymn to Nemesis is one of the few actual scores surviving from
antiquity. Another one is the hymn to Helios. These are usually featured by
all music reconstructionist groups, and usually the other compositions are
not on par with these. It seems Mesomedes from Crete was really a good
composer, even based on these few fragments. Mesomedes' compositions can be
all found on Youtube, in various versions.

Optime valete,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "fauxrari" <drivergirl@ ...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com>
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 2:15 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pagan Hymns?

Salve!

Cool radio station! I double majored in English and Musicology so it's
always a treat to hear new types of music.

I like the idea of composing a hymn. Most ancient literary works were meant
to be sung and then there's the chorus in plays, too. If you understand the
different literary meters and structures of the literary work, it's very
hard not to sing it. It's reminds me of rap music (please don't hit me),
since that is a genre of music that relies heavily on the metrical
recitation of a 'poem.' I also imagine both generes would involve singing as
well as lyrical recitation.. .

Anyhow, I digress.... I just came upon a CD of re-created Roman music. The CD
is called "Somnia Imperii," and was composed by David Marshall. The subtitle
says "Evoking dreams of empire" and it was played on reconstructed
instruments by the Praecones Britanniae. It's a pretty good CD. The cornicen
isn't that great (I also play this instrument and the Roman tuba, so I'm a
harsh critic). What's really interesting is at about track 4 or 5 both a man
and a woman begin what I'd call Roman rap, a very lyrical recitation of, I'm
assuming, ancient texts. An English translation follows- and the beginning
it's definitely assumes the same subject as many rap songs- a 'dirty' dancer
gyrating her hips as she seduces men in the taverna. My favorite is this
powerful invocation to the goddess Nemesis. There's more singing and the
meter really pushes the invocation on to a climax. I could definitely see
different meteres/instruments coming in to evoke a certain diety, as has
been seen in so many classical operas and symphonies (Think 'Peter and the
Wolf'). So the end of the story is that everything old is new again- our
ancestors invented a musical way of storytelling that has survived to this
day.

Vale,

L. Antonia Auriga

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogrou ps.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@ ...> wrote:
>
> Maria Valeriae sal,
>
> Amica, I have to know ...because I'm curious, and because you play my
> favorite musical instrument ...did you put what I wrote to music? If you
> did ...is there *any* chance that I could hear it (without coming out
> there, which, had I the funds and time, etc. etc. I would quite happily
> do?
>
> Vale quam optime,
> C.. Maria Caeca, who will be adding that link almost immediately ...and
> reading the link Julia Aquila posted (gratias, Amica!), and ...and ...oh,
> yes ...reflexive pronouns! How *could* I forget? (smile).
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeca Neroni omnibusque sal,

I see where you are going with this, and, with a couple of caveats, I agree. I think reconstruction of ancient Roman culture is extremely important, if we are to use Roma Antiqua as our foundation, and that applies in all arts and crafts, as well as in other things. that being said ...I also think there is room for innovation and creativity, and I suppose modifying existing music is a place to start ...although to be truthful, doing that ...rubs my fur the wrong way, so to speak. I'd rather see effort put into new compositions, in any language, using any instruments, but also using our traditions as a firm foundation, and maintaining a high level of accuracy in terms of the cultus deorum. I'd be willing to bet that were you to begin such an effort, you could obtain help from any number of highly qualified experts. In short, I think both approaches, if taken seriously, can do us nothing but good.

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agricola Plautae sal.

Thank you very much. Luckily, I rise early anyway, 5:30 AM is typical, and I have easy access to natural places. There are also many birds of every type around here, as I live on a narrow bit of land between the mountains and the sea.

I am looking forward to learning from M. Piscinus and C. Modianus and I hope that after careful study I will be able to provide useful service to the Res Publica.

optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
> I would like to congratulate the new sacerdotes.
> Specially my friend Julia Aquila, who I'm sure is already a very competent
> sacerdos for Venus Genetrix.
> I'm very glad to see a new augur in the person of Agricola. I'm sure he will
> perform successfully this ungrateful job (involving early rises and outdoor
> activity in all weathers).
> Thank you, Agricola, for doing this!
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

Agricola Omnibus sal.

Just in case anyone is not familiar with the Seikilos inscription, there is a nice Wikipedia article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seikilos_epitaph and there are a number of attempts at performance on Youtube. I know it is Greek, not Roman, but there is a strong case that this is the oldest complete composition in the world.

optime valete

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Caeca Neroni omnibusque sal,
>
> I see where you are going with this, and, with a couple of caveats, I agree. I think reconstruction of ancient Roman culture is extremely important, if we are to use Roma Antiqua as our foundation, and that applies in all arts and crafts, as well as in other things. that being said ...I also think there is room for innovation and creativity, and I suppose modifying existing music is a place to start ...although to be truthful, doing that ...rubs my fur the wrong way, so to speak. I'd rather see effort put into new compositions, in any language, using any instruments, but also using our traditions as a firm foundation, and maintaining a high level of accuracy in terms of the cultus deorum. I'd be willing to bet that were you to begin such an effort, you could obtain help from any number of highly qualified experts. In short, I think both approaches, if taken seriously, can do us nothing but good.
>
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Maior Neroni Caecaeque spd;
modern music is fine, but I really advise against turning christian hymns into pagan ones, as the sentiments are very different indeed, more is involved than just adding an S to gods.

The gods are not omnipotent nor omnicient or any other of a million things that jesus and yahweh are. Nor are we cultores getting down on our knees, nor do we have any conscious of sinfulness. We ask the gods to be propitous to us, we give them offerings in return; games, sacrifices, monuments etc

Take a tune and write your own lyrics but leave the written christian hymn alone..
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Caeca Neroni omnibusque sal,
>
> I see where you are going with this, and, with a couple of caveats, I agree. I think reconstruction of ancient Roman culture is extremely important, if we are to use Roma Antiqua as our foundation, and that applies in all arts and crafts, as well as in other things. that being said ...I also think there is room for innovation and creativity, and I suppose modifying existing music is a place to start ...although to be truthful, doing that ...rubs my fur the wrong way, so to speak. I'd rather see effort put into new compositions, in any language, using any instruments, but also using our traditions as a firm foundation, and maintaining a high level of accuracy in terms of the cultus deorum. I'd be willing to bet that were you to begin such an effort, you could obtain help from any number of highly qualified experts. In short, I think both approaches, if taken seriously, can do us nothing but good.
>
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete;
here is another article, really fascinating about a new find in an ancient Roman Italian cemetary

Ambassador or slave? East Asian skeleton discovered in Vagnari Roman Cemetery

A team of researchers announced a surprising discovery during a scholarly presentation in Toronto last Friday. The research team, based at McMaster University in Hamilton, Canada, has been helping to excavate an ancient Roman cemetery at the site of Vagnari in southern Italy. Led by Professor Tracy Prowse, they've been analyzing the skeletons found there by performing DNA and oxygen isotope tests.

The surprise is that the DNA tests show that one of the skeletons, a man, has an East Asian ancestry – on his mother's side. This appears to be the first time that a skeleton with an East Asian ancestry has been discovered in the Roman Empire
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Maior,
> thanks. This confirms my idea that mixed marriages (or at least mixed
> reproduction) were much more common than one thinks. Of course, during the
> Roman Empire many people converted to Judaism (more than to Christianism, in
> the beginning), so this is where the mixture may have started.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rory12001" <rory12001@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:25 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: genomes and history
>
>
> Salve Livia;
> that's fascinating. I had no knowledge until you wrote this of the common
> cultural understandings, language etc...I really appreciate it.
> yes they did include Sephardim, it's on a different link:
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/09/ashg-2009-abstracts.html
>
> By pairwise Fst analysis, the Jewish groups are closest to Southern
> Europeans (i.e. Tuscan Italians) and to Druze, Bedouins, Palestinians.
> Interestingly, the distance to the closest Southern European population
> follows the order from proximal to distal: Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Syrian,
> Iraqi, and Iranian, which reflects historical admixture with local
> communities
>
> and here is Sardinia
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/03/genetic-differentiation-at-village.html
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Maior,
> > well, the Greeks always said: "Italiani, Greci, una razza una faccia".
> > They
> > have always known about the similarities, and so did all the Southern
> > Italians who have been to Greece.
> > It didn't take DNA analysis to see the relationship there. In fact, if you
> > don't hear them speaking, it's impossible to tell a Greek from a Southern
> > Italian. And even when you hear them speaking sometimes the similarities
> > are
> > amazing.
> > Many times, when my friend Dimitris from Athens speaks I can hear the same
> > intonation as my Sardinian grandmother's.
> > Many of the phonetic changes that occurred between ancient and modern
> > Greek
> > also occurred in Southern Italian dialects, specially Sicilian.
> > We also had, in Greek and in the neolatin languages, the parallel
> > development of verbal tenses that didn't exist in Latin or ancient Greek,
> > and I suspect that the innovation of the determinative article was due to
> > Greek influence.
> > But there is one thing that is linguistically exclusive, to Italians and
> > Greeks, and that's the interjection "eh". It can be used interrogatively
> > ("eh?", means "what did you say?") or affirmatively ("eh!"="yes").
> > Another particle which is excusively Greek and Italian is "o" (before
> > vocative), but in Italy it's confined to the centre and South of the
> > country, so probably its diffusion area covers exactly the area of genetic
> > similarity between Italians and Greeks. So if you hear someone saying "O
> > Katerina!" you can't know the nationality, until you hear the rest ("vieni
> > qui" or "ela edo").
> > Of course, people forget that the common history didn't stop with the fall
> > of the Western Roman Empire, but big parts of Greece were under Venetian
> > or
> > Genoese domination for centuries. This probably accounts for the big
> > number
> > of Italian words in Greek.
> >
> >
> > It's a pity the study didn't include Sefardi Jews. I suspect they are even
> > more similar to Italians and Greeks than Ashkenazis.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rory12001" <rory12001@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:45 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] genomes and history
> >
> >
> > Salvete;
> > here is a very interestign link from a blog
> > http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/08/refinement-of-ancestry-informative.html
> >
> > I find it fascinating as the latest study shows Southern Italians, are no
> > more than Latin speaking Greeks:) Sicily was Magna Graecia, and Ashkenazi
> > Jews (Northern European Jews) are closest to Italians and Greeks, the
> > admixture picked up during Hellenistic-Roman times.
> >
> > Italian-Americans are primarily Southern Italian and thus closest to
> > Greeks
> > as well.
> > I hope you all enjoy these findings as much as I do!
> > otpime vale
> > Maior
> >
>

Maior Ombnibus spd;
here is a little amusing thing I have found. Film trailers dubbed or subtitled in Latin, Our Latinists here can tell me what they think, if the Latin is good.

Ecce delicias inveni; quae sunt pelliculae breves in latine. Noster grex humanus mihi dicitote: nonne verba oratioque malae vel bonae sunt?

Do please correct or rewrite my attempt. I appreciate it!

http://www.scorpiomartianus.com/
vale
Maior

C. Petronius M. Maiori s.p.d.,

> Ecce delicias inveni; quae sunt pelliculae breves in latine. Noster grex humanus mihi dicitote: nonne verba oratioque malae vel bonae sunt?

> Do please correct or rewrite my attempt. I appreciate it!

I like it. :o)

> Ecce delicias inveni;

Ecce deliciae quas inveni;

> quae sunt pelliculae breves in latine.

quae breves pelliculae in Latino (in lingua Latina) sunt.

> Noster grex humanus mihi dicitote: nonne verba oratioque malae vel bonae sunt?

mihi dicitote utrum verba oratioque mala an bona sint?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

SO I recently had to make a very VERY hard decision. I switched my major from medicine to engineering and I was curious what Gods would be considered to patronize that field.
Obviously there are various disciplines and your input on the different Gods that look over each one would be nice.
Prometheus comes right into my head as well as Vulcan.
Any others you can think of?
Come one people we have thousand of Gods lets think :)
DVIC
Nero

Salvete,


http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=435757535572&ref=share



In the Gods,


Todd Jackson

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Di vos inculumes custodiant

Hodie est ante diem III Kalendas Februarias; haec dies nefastus est: feriae ex consulto senatus quod eo die ara Pacis Augustae dedicata; Delphinus incipit occidere, item Fidicula occidere, significat.

Felices natalis Marce Corve ! Di tibi dent quaecumque optes.
Today is the birthday of Tribunus Plebis Marcus Octavius Corvis, Sacerdos Iovis. We wish him well and the Gods may grant his desires.


ARA PACIS AUGUSTAE

Come, Peace, your graceful tresses wreathed
With laurel of Actium: stay gently in this world.
While we lack enemies, or cause for triumphs:
You'll be a greater glory to our leaders than war.
May the soldier be armed to defend against arms,
And the trumpet blare only for processions.
May the world far and near fear the sons of Aeneas,
And let any land that feared Rome too little, love her.
Priests, add incense to the peaceful flames,
Let a shining sacrifice fall, brow wet with wine,
And ask the Gods who favour pious prayer
That the house that brings peace, may so endure.
~ P. Ovidius Naso, Fasti 1.711-722


AUC 744 / 9 BCE: Dedication of the Ara Pacis Augustae

"When I returned from Spain and Gaul, in the consulship of Tiberius Nero and Publius Quintilius [13 BCE], after successful operations in those provinces, the Senate voted in honor of my return the consecration of an altar to Pax Augusta in the Campus Martius, and on this altar it ordered the magistrates and priests and Vestal virgins to make annual sacrifice. Janus Quirinus, which our ancestors ordered to be closed whenever there was peace, secured by victory, throughout the whole domain of the Roman people on land and sea, and which, before my birth is recorded to have been closed but twice in all since the foundation of the city, the senate ordered to be closed thrice while I was princeps." ~ Augustus, Res Gestae Divi Augusti 12.2-13

Commissioned by the Senate on 4 July 13 to honor Augustus upon his triumphal return from Gaul and Hispania, the Ara Pacis Augustae was dedicated nearly three and a half years later, celebrating the peace that Augustus had brought to the Empire through his many victories. The iconography of the altar and its surrounding enclosure depict the Pax Augusta as a result of the Pax Deorum attained by the Augustan Restoration of the religio Romana. The altar sits is atop a platform of eight steps. The altar itself is decorated with a band of friezes around the top that depicts a procession of sacrificial animals led by poppae and victimarii. Panels on the lower section are thought to have depicted a scene from a sacrifice, with another panel depicting the veiled Vestales Virgines. The inner portion of the enclosing wall has reliefs of bucraniae, wreathes, and paterae. The panels on the outside of the enclosing wall link the Augustan regime in the Pax Deorum in two ways. First in myth, on the front right panel, Aeneas finding a white sow is taken from Virgil's description in the Aeneid, thematically linking Augustus as the new founder of the religio Romana. On the front left panel, Mars and Faustulus flank the lupercal where Romulus and Remus are seen being suckled by a she-wolf. This scene was possibly intended to suggest Augustus as the new Founder of Rome. The rear left panel shows Tellus or Ceres or Pax, flanked by two Nymphae. Romulus and Remus sit on Her lap; thematically connecting Her with Livia, as Iulia Augusta, and mother of Tiberius and Drusus. Another panel on the right rear shows a female warrior, probably intended to depict Roma or Victoria Augusta, or Pax, sitting on a pile of captured enemy arms to represent the peace won through the victories of Augustus.

On the long sides of the enclosing wall are panels of the imperial family, magistrates, and priests seen in a procession towards the western entrance to the altar. Augustus leads the procession on the south side. He is accompanied by his camillus and lictores, followed by flamines in their distinctive apexes. Next comes Agrippa capite velite accompanied by his son Gaius. Livia comes next, followed by Antonia Minor and her husband Drusus with their children. Nero Claudius Drusus is seen in a military uniform. He was consul and died that same year as the altar was dedicated. Next is Antonia Maior with her huband and children. The northern procession has pontifices, quindecemviri sacris faciundis, and the semptemviri epulones along with their assistants and other children of the imperial family. Much of the image of Augustan is now missing. In the original design he can be seen at the apex of priests and civil administrators. He leads the procession as both Pontifex Maximus and Imperator, with his lictors and the flamines maiores behind him, and as head of a dynasty posed by his several grandchildren on the panels. The entire scheme of the decoration is then to show Augustus as the one person who connects the fortunes of the Empire to the interests of the immortal Gods and how the Pax Deorum is dependent upon him offering sacrifice in fide to the Gods in the same manner as the legendary founders of Alba Longa and Rome.

Museo dell'Ara Pacis http://en.arapacis.it/
Best photos of the Ara Pacis at Bluffton University:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/AandL/Maecenas/rome/ara_pacis/section_contents.html
Article and photos at Bluffton University:
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/rome/arapacis/arapacis.html


AUC 886 / 133 CE: Birth of Emperor M. Didius Salvius Julianus Severus

"Meanwhile Didius Julianus, at once an insatiate money-getter and a wanton spendthrift, who was always eager for revolution and hence had been exiled by Commodus to his native city of Mediolanum, now, when he heard of the death of Pertinax, hastily made his way to the camp, and, standing at the gates of the enclosure, made bids to the soldiers for the rule over the Romans. Then ensued a most disgraceful business and one unworthy of Rome." ~ Cassius Dio 74.11.2

In 193 CE the Praetorian Guard became upset with Emperor Pertinax for his strict military discipline and his economical rule after the excesses of Commodus. Failing to give the Praetorians an extra bonus, they murdered Pertinax (28 Mar.) and promised the throne to the highest bidder. This was Didius Julianus. The legions of Syria, Panonnia, and Britannia declared their own commanders emperors. All began to march against Didius in April or May, L. Septimus Severus from Panonnia arriving first to put an end to Didius on 1 June.


Today's thought is from Cicero, De Officiis 2.2

"What, in the name of heaven, is more to be desired than wisdom? What is more to be prized? What is better for a man, what more worthy of his nature? Those who seek after it are called philosophers; and philosophy is nothing else, if one will translate the word into our idiom, than "the love of wisdom." Wisdom, morever, as the word has been defined by the philosophers of old, is "the knowledge of things human and divine and of the causes by which those things are controlled."

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio salutem dicit

According to section I.B of our Constitution you do not have the right to
issue an edict that invalidates a decretum; however, the tribunes have the
authority to issue intercessio. I find it disturbing that you take the time
to write such a verbose edict when your consular colleague is a member of
the Collegium Pontificum, and as a senator you can be privy to the contio of
the Collegium Pontificum and therefore should have stated your concerns to
the pontifices in private. Therefore, I will be ignoring your edict. It
has not the force of law.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 7:13 AM, Publius Memmius Albucius <
albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Edictum cos. Memmium concerning some void provisions of the decretum on
> the �results of the January session� of the Collegium Pontificum (2763 auc)
> *
>
> (*de infirmatione certorum partorum e decreto de eventis concilii Ianuarii
> Collegii Pontificum*)
>
>
> In view of the:
>
> -
>
> Constitution of Nova Roma (
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Current_constitution_%28Nova_Roma%29), in
> its various parts, which underlines the republican character of Nova Roma
> institutions;
> -
>
> same Constitution in its article IV.A.2b and 7a, VI.B.1;
> -
>
> decretum of the Collegium Pontificum (*beneath abbreviated as 'CP'*)
> published in the Forum Romanum (*message ML # 73264, �Fri Jan 29, 2010�
> *, *called �Results of January session of the **Collegium Pontificum� *
> ), specially its items VIa, in its paragraphs II and V.
>
>
> Considering that, with no previous consultation of Nova Roma civil
> institutions:
>
> -
>
> the evoked CP decretum has, probably with no ill intention and in a
> good will to improve the contributions of the Collegium to the Religio
> Romana and specially to its religious calendar, exceeded its constitutional
> powers in deciding in its Item II that �The month names of the Julian
> calendar as revised by Augustus and the Gregorian calendar will be the names
> of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma. The religious
> calendar shall retain the names of months used under the Julian calendrical
> reform.�;
> -
>
> the evoked decretum has thus exceeded the powers given to the CP by the
> constitution which are to �*control*� the calendar and to issue decreta
> that are therefore valid as long that they stay in the internal frame of �
> *the **matters relevant to the Religio Romana and its own internal
> procedures*�;
> -
>
> the CP has, in its Item VIa, paragraphs II and V/2nd sentence, not
> remained in the field of a �*control*� of the calendar;
> -
>
> thus the CP, when deciding in its Item VIa, II that �The month names of
> the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the Gregorian calendar will
> be the names of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma.�,
> placed Nova Roma in the historical reference of years 710 and 746 auc which
> may not be the less discussed time references of the Republican values on
> which the Constitution of Nova Roma has built our community;
> -
>
> whatever may be the arguments on the matter, the CP has therefore, in
> such the sensitive area of Nova Roma constitutional values and references,
> created new major rules and therefore exceeded its powers;
> -
>
> the same statement may be done on the second sentence of the paragraph
> V of the decretum, which, through its two last words, enters a detail that
> is beyond the powers of the CP;
> -
>
> such excesses allows the civil institutions of the Republic, and inter
> omnes its first consul, to consider the act as void in order to protect Nova
> Roma institutions and with no prejudice to a possible and further applicable
> veto, by the tribunes of the Plebs, of the evoked provisions of the
> decretum;
>
>
> for these reasons, I, P. Memmius Albucius, consul maior for year 2763
> a.u.c., issue the present edict:
>
>
> *Article 1*:
>
>
> The paragraph II of the Item VIa of the above evoked decretum of the
> Collegium Pontificum on the �results of the January session� of 2763 auc, as
> well as the two last words of its paragraph V, are considered as
> unconstitutional and, therefore, void.
>
>
> As such, no civil institution of Nova Roma shall be obliged to obey these
> provisions, and any institution, which should decide nevertheless to do it,
> would commit its own responsibility and this of its members.
>
>
> *Article 2*:
>
>
> This edict has no effect on the other provisions of the mentioned decretum,
> which keep their full validity. The first sentence of Item VIa, paragraph V
> is thus seen as an already applicable rule, whose addition does not create,
> at the expenses of Nova Roma civil institutions, any harm.
>
>
> *Article 3*:
>
>
> This edict takes effect immediately. It will be mentioned in the Tabularium
> Novae Romae, specially in the page which may welcome the text of the
> referred decretum, whose void provisions will be clearly identified as such.
>
>
> *Article 5*:
>
>
> Every Nova Roman public officer shall, as far as their duties require,
> enforce the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae
> Romae and in Nova Roma relevant internet 'discussion' lists.
>
>
>
> *Datum a.d. III Kal. Feb. 2762 a.u.c. (Feb. 30**th**) P. Memmio Albucio K.
> Fabio Buteone Quintiliano II coss.*
>
>
>
>
>
> *P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS cos.*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> To: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
> From: MHoratius@...
> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:06:00 +0000
> Subject: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium
> Pontificum
>
>
> M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus: P. Memmio K. Fabio Consulibus,
> Senatoribus Patribus M�tribusque Conscript�s, viris clarissimis et
> castissimae mulieribus, Pontificibus, Maximae Valeriae Messallinae, Virgine
> Vestalis Maximae, Flaminibus, civibus, Quiritibus et omnibus: salutem
> plurimam dicit:
>
> QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS
>
> I am pleased to announce that the Collegium Pontificum, having met in
> session last week, has arrived at the following decisions.
>
> ITEM I: All Pontifices are retained.
>
> __________________
>
> ITEM II: M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus is retained as Pontifex Maximus.
>
> __________________
>
> ITEM III:
>
> 3.a Adlection of New Sacerdotes
>
> The following individuals have been accepted to sacerdotal offices by the
> Collegium Pontificum. They must now be inaugurated before the Comitia
> Curiata before taking office. Congratulations to each one of them.
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola is adlected Augur publicus.
>
> Camilla Julia Aquila is adlected Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis.
>
> Gaia Aurelia Ibera is adlected Sacerdos Vestalis under the training of
> Maxima Valeria Mesallina, Virgo Vestalis Maxima.
>
> Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia is adlected Sacerdos Mithrae.
>
> 3.b Acceptance to the Camillus Program
>
> The following individuals are accepted to the Camillus Program wherein they
> shall receive instruction from members of the Collegium Pontificum, in order
> to prepare them for future sacerdotal offices:
>
> Titus Cassius Longinus
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
> Appius Galerius Aurelianus
> Titus Iulius Calvus
> Marcus Octavius Corvus
> Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
> Gaius Coceius Spinula
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM IV: Passed: Decretum de Maiestate
>
> The Collegium Pontificum hereby revokes the Decretum Pontificum passed on
> 25 Feb. AUC 2756 concerning the blasphemy clause of the Constitution VI.A.
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM V: Passed: Decretum de Libris Pontifici Novae Romae
>
> Pars I: The Leges Regia, fragmenta Libri Pontifici and the Commentarii on
> those laws, as have been collected and may yet be discovered, shall be
> recognized by the Collegium Pontificum as the basis of the traditional
> practice of the religio
> Romana
>
> Pars II: Future responsa of the Pontifices may refer to these ancient texts
> in support of their determinations, and thus, through the commentaries of
> our Pontifices, Libri Pontifici shall evolve for Nova Roma from the accepted
> and ancient traditions of the religio Romana.
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM VI.a: Passed: Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile
>
> The Decretum passed on pridie Nonas Sextilias MMDCCLVII (4 Aug 2004)
> amending a previous Decretum Pontificum, passed on ante diem VIII Kalendas
> Aprilis 2754 (25 March 2001) in regard to the official civil calender of
> Nova Roma is hereby amended.
>
> I. The Official Calendar of Nova Roma will be the Gregorian Calendar with
> the following modifications:
>
> A. Years will be reckoned from the founding of Rome (ab Urbe condita)
> rather than the common era.
> B. The addition of intercalary days will be determined by the Gregorian
> formula using the common era as a reference, but will be inserted between
> Ante Diem VII Kalendas Martias (Terminalia/23 February) and Ante Diem VI
> Kalendas Martias (Regifugium/24 February).
>
> II. The month names of the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the
> Gregorian calendar will be the names of months used for the official civil
> calendar in Nova Roma. The religious calendar shall retain the names of
> months used under the Julian calendrical reform.
>
> III. To fulfill the Vow of adding an additional dies nefastus to the
> official civil calendar, dies pristinus Kal. Ian. (31 December) was
> designated by the previous decretum pontificum as dies nefastus. This date
> shall remain dies nefastus and is now designated as feriae Civilia.
> Magistrates whose term of office is to conclude at the end of this day ought
> to perform private piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may have
> occurred during their year in office. Newly designated magistrates whose
> term of office shall begin on the following date, the Kalends of January,
> ought to also perform private piacula for their Lares, Penates, and to the
> Di superi for whose cultus they shall be responsible in the coming year.
> Public celebrations for Civilia shall be conducted by the pontifices to
> invite the the Gods to bless the transition of imperium and
> auspicium between former and new magistrates.
>
> IV. Also to fulfill the previous vow, the Pontifices shall continue to
> perform the annual end of year piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may
> have occurred during the previous year. These piacula shall be performed by
> the end of the religious year that concludes with Terminalia, ante diem VII
> Kalendas Martis (23 February).
>
> V. All official dates of the civil calendar in Nova Roma shalll be stated
> in Roman reckoning, by noting the number of days in Roman notation before
> the Kalends, Nones, and Ides of each month, and the year given in Roman
> notation ab Urbe condita along with the consular year. On official documents
> such notation will be followed by a restating of the date in modern notation
> inside parentheses.
>
> NOTE: Parts of this decretum may be revisited later this year when the
> official calendar is again reviewed for the following year.
>
> _________________
>
> VI.b: Passed Decretum Pontificum de Fastis AUC MMDCCLXIII
>
> The Calendar posted by Pontifex Cn. Cornelius to the Nova Roma website, as
> amended under the Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile, is the official
> calendar of Nova Roma for AUC MMDCCLXIII P. Memmio K. Fabio Buteone coss.
>
> Di Deaeque immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.
>
> In other matters, great concern was expressed over the manner that women
> have been met with insults and intimidation in Nova Roma. Especially
> distressing is that this has occurred to Vestales and to those who trained
> as Vestales, as well as other female sacerdotes and to senatrices. Such
> behavior has caused all of Nova Roma to lose valuable members of our
> community, including three senatrices and two women training as Vestales
> last year. Such behavior reflects poorly on all of Nova Roma and on all our
> Citizens. Most distressing is that some of the grossest insults towards
> women have come from members of the Senate and some members of the Collegium
> Pontificum itself. When asked to apologize publicly for comments they had
> made in public fora, one Senator took it as a personal challenge, while a
> Pontifex simply refused. As was expressed in our collegial discussions by
> Pontifex and Censor T. Sabinus, there is a limit to the patience of the
> Collegium Pontificum when it comes to those who show disrepect towards the
> Religio Romana and who show disrespect towards those sacerdotes who practice
> the sacra publica at their own time and expense for the benefit of all Nova
> Roma Citizens. For the time being a decision on these matters await further
> discussion while the Collegium Pontificum considers a proper response to
> such misconduct.
>
> As Pontifex Maximus I call upon our Censores, Consules and Praetores to
> take a firm stand against the verbal abuse and intimidation of women, as
> such misbehavior still degrades our community in Nova Roma and severely
> limits Nova Roma's ability to grow and develop. Women provide a vital role
> in the cultus Deorum and we in turn need to provide them with respect and
> consideration in a welcoming community that appreciates their contributions.
>
> Di Deaeque vos bene ament. Ite numinibus votisque secundetis.
>
> ab manu M. Moravii a. d. IV Kal. Feb. AUC MMDCCLXIII in anno P. Memmio K.
> Fabio Buteone coss.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Faites une bonne action avec Bing Solidaire ! C'est ici !<http://www.bingsolidaire.com>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

My only concern is that a restoration of a Roman *republic* would include in its calendar the names of deified tyrants - the creators of an imperial system repulsive to republican Romans.

Just a point of fact regarding Roman law: the Romans didn't have an idea that would actually correspond to our sense of the "validity" or "invalidity" of an edict or law; nor did they have the sense that there was an over-arching "purpose" of a system of law.

Laws were passed to deal with specific situations, not generalities, and it was left up to the praetors and consuls to enforce their own edicta as well as those passed by their predecessors. They could choose to do so or not, and there was really no recourse except for the passing of another law to deal with the specific question at hand.

Besides which, no pontiff or censor can invalidate - or proclaim invalid - an edict of a consul.

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio salutem dicit
>
> According to section I.B of our Constitution you do not have the right to
> issue an edict that invalidates a decretum; however, the tribunes have the
> authority to issue intercessio. I find it disturbing that you take the time
> to write such a verbose edict when your consular colleague is a member of
> the Collegium Pontificum, and as a senator you can be privy to the contio of
> the Collegium Pontificum and therefore should have stated your concerns to
> the pontifices in private. Therefore, I will be ignoring your edict. It
> has not the force of law.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

C. Petronius L. Iuliae s.p.d.,

> My vivid imagination is overloaded with an image of both of you in burqas donning beards wearing Klingon cloaks that reverse to Harry Potter's cloak of invisibility...

Harry Potter's cloak of invisibility. This cloak is Welsh it is more Roman, amica, to wear the helmet of Hades to become invisible. :o)

With this helmet Perseus can approach the terrible Medusa. In English according to Wikipaedia you call it: Cap of Hades, Helm of Hades, cap of invisibility or Helm of darkness... its name is Kynee.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

"Besides which, no pontiff or censor can invalidate - or proclaim invalid -
an edict of a consul."

Very true, but no consul can invalidate a decretum of the Collegium
Pontificum via an edict! That is my point! It is not my authority as a
pontifex, but rather the authority of the decretum. Read what I wrote!

Vale;

Modianus

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> My only concern is that a restoration of a Roman *republic* would include
> in its calendar the names of deified tyrants - the creators of an imperial
> system repulsive to republican Romans.
>
> Just a point of fact regarding Roman law: the Romans didn't have an idea
> that would actually correspond to our sense of the "validity" or
> "invalidity" of an edict or law; nor did they have the sense that there was
> an over-arching "purpose" of a system of law.
>
> Laws were passed to deal with specific situations, not generalities, and it
> was left up to the praetors and consuls to enforce their own edicta as well
> as those passed by their predecessors. They could choose to do so or not,
> and there was really no recourse except for the passing of another law to
> deal with the specific question at hand.
>
> Besides which, no pontiff or censor can invalidate - or proclaim invalid -
> an edict of a consul.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, David
> Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio salutem dicit
> >
> > According to section I.B of our Constitution you do not have the right to
> > issue an edict that invalidates a decretum; however, the tribunes have
> the
> > authority to issue intercessio. I find it disturbing that you take the
> time
> > to write such a verbose edict when your consular colleague is a member of
> > the Collegium Pontificum, and as a senator you can be privy to the contio
> of
> > the Collegium Pontificum and therefore should have stated your concerns
> to
> > the pontifices in private. Therefore, I will be ignoring your edict. It
> > has not the force of law.
> >
> > Vale;
> >
> > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Modiano sal.

Hmmm... interesting. I see where you're going with that.

Since decreta issued by the College of Pontiffs are higher in legal authority than the edicta of magistrates (according to the Constitution), you are assuming that the edict of a magistrate would therefore have *no effect* on a decretum. I think this may be an erroneous assumption.

The Constitution says that *if they conflict* the one shall take precedence over the other. This is not the case here - it's not the same as a magisterial edict which *nullifies* a decretum. The edict promulgated by Albucius doesn't conflict with the decretum (by declaring that the months shall be known by their republican names, for instance); it simply nullifies it based on a Constitutional question of the ability of the College to make such a sweeping decretum.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> "Besides which, no pontiff or censor can invalidate - or proclaim invalid -
> an edict of a consul."
>
> Very true, but no consul can invalidate a decretum of the Collegium
> Pontificum via an edict! That is my point! It is not my authority as a
> pontifex, but rather the authority of the decretum. Read what I wrote!
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> >
> > My only concern is that a restoration of a Roman *republic* would include
> > in its calendar the names of deified tyrants - the creators of an imperial
> > system repulsive to republican Romans.
> >
> > Just a point of fact regarding Roman law: the Romans didn't have an idea
> > that would actually correspond to our sense of the "validity" or
> > "invalidity" of an edict or law; nor did they have the sense that there was
> > an over-arching "purpose" of a system of law.
> >
> > Laws were passed to deal with specific situations, not generalities, and it
> > was left up to the praetors and consuls to enforce their own edicta as well
> > as those passed by their predecessors. They could choose to do so or not,
> > and there was really no recourse except for the passing of another law to
> > deal with the specific question at hand.
> >
> > Besides which, no pontiff or censor can invalidate - or proclaim invalid -
> > an edict of a consul.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, David
> > Kling <tau.athanasios@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Publio Memmio Albucio salutem dicit
> > >
> > > According to section I.B of our Constitution you do not have the right to
> > > issue an edict that invalidates a decretum; however, the tribunes have
> > the
> > > authority to issue intercessio. I find it disturbing that you take the
> > time
> > > to write such a verbose edict when your consular colleague is a member of
> > > the Collegium Pontificum, and as a senator you can be privy to the contio
> > of
> > > the Collegium Pontificum and therefore should have stated your concerns
> > to
> > > the pontifices in private. Therefore, I will be ignoring your edict. It
> > > has not the force of law.
> > >
> > > Vale;
> > >
> > > Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

An edict cannot veto a decretum of the Collegium Pontificum, only the
tribunes can do that. This is not that complicated.

Vale;

Modianus

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato Modiano sal.
>
> Hmmm... interesting. I see where you're going with that.
>
> Since decreta issued by the College of Pontiffs are higher in legal
> authority than the edicta of magistrates (according to the Constitution),
> you are assuming that the edict of a magistrate would therefore have *no
> effect* on a decretum. I think this may be an erroneous assumption.
>
> The Constitution says that *if they conflict* the one shall take precedence
> over the other. This is not the case here - it's not the same as a
> magisterial edict which *nullifies* a decretum. The edict promulgated by
> Albucius doesn't conflict with the decretum (by declaring that the months
> shall be known by their republican names, for instance); it simply nullifies
> it.
>
> Vale,
>
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> My only concern is that a restoration of a Roman *republic* would include in its calendar the names of deified tyrants - the creators of an imperial system repulsive to republican Romans.

That is all the subject of the decretum. We proposed that the calendar has his months' names of the Republican period instead of the Gregorians names. Id est; Quintilis instead of Julius and Sextilis instead of Augustus.

This item is a correcting of the current "Decretum Pontificum about the Nova Roma calendar (Nova Roma)". It is not unconstitutional.

In the Constitution VI,B,1,a only the CP control the calendar.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Cato Modiano sal.

No, it can't veto it, but it *can* declare it invalid because of a conflict with the Constitution. Again, Albucius is looking at the *process* not the *content*.

You also seem to be under the impression that there is some sort of limit on what a magisterial edict can say. There is not. It can be *challenged* (exactly as Albucius is challenging the decretum), but it can say whatever the magistrate wants it to say. Its authority is assumed and its provisions actionable until or unless a law is passed which specifically says it is not - or it is withdrawn by the issuing magistrate.

In this particular instance it is about a relatively harmless subject (i.e., not one subject to punishment, that I know of), but if you defied a magisterial edict which *did* have a punishment as a result of its violation, he would have the right to bring you to trial on charges, whether *you* considered it valid or not.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> An edict cannot veto a decretum of the Collegium Pontificum, only the
> tribunes can do that. This is not that complicated.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Modiano sal.
> >
> > Hmmm... interesting. I see where you're going with that.
> >
> > Since decreta issued by the College of Pontiffs are higher in legal
> > authority than the edicta of magistrates (according to the Constitution),
> > you are assuming that the edict of a magistrate would therefore have *no
> > effect* on a decretum. I think this may be an erroneous assumption.
> >
> > The Constitution says that *if they conflict* the one shall take precedence
> > over the other. This is not the case here - it's not the same as a
> > magisterial edict which *nullifies* a decretum. The edict promulgated by
> > Albucius doesn't conflict with the decretum (by declaring that the months
> > shall be known by their republican names, for instance); it simply nullifies
> > it.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

I understand that for the religious calendar, but:

"The month names of the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the
Gregorian calendar will be the names of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma."

The Gregorian calendar uses "July" and "August".

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > My only concern is that a restoration of a Roman *republic* would include in its calendar the names of deified tyrants - the creators of an imperial system repulsive to republican Romans.
>
> That is all the subject of the decretum. We proposed that the calendar has his months' names of the Republican period instead of the Gregorians names. Id est; Quintilis instead of Julius and Sextilis instead of Augustus.
>
> This item is a correcting of the current "Decretum Pontificum about the Nova Roma calendar (Nova Roma)". It is not unconstitutional.
>
> In the Constitution VI,B,1,a only the CP control the calendar.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> No, it can't veto it, but it *can* declare it invalid because of a conflict with the Constitution.

There is no conflict with the Constitution. Only the CP can control the calendar.

Constitution: VI, B, 1, a:
"The collegium pontificum shall have the following honors, powers, and responsibilities:
a. To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals and dies fasti and dies nefasti shall occur, and what their effects shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome;"

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> I understand that for the religious calendar,

It is your interpretation. The Constitution speaks about calendar only in the CP articles.

The difference between civil and religious calendar is not in the month names but the civil calendar goes from January 1st to December 31st, and the religious one from March 1st to february 23rd (Terminalia).

but:

>
> "The month names of the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the Gregorian calendar will be the names of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma."

This sentence is a sentence of the CP in his decretum passed on august 2004 and now corrected by the CP himself in the new decretum. So it is the same calendar in question. The CP can change his mind with time. It is absolutely constitutional.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

But... you do not have the authority to decide what is or is not Constitutional and neither does the College of Pontiffs.

Look, Albucius has issued an edict as consul. The edict stands until it is tested in court or until he withdraws it voluntarily or is convinced it needs to be withdrawn. That's the law.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > No, it can't veto it, but it *can* declare it invalid because of a conflict with the Constitution.
>
> There is no conflict with the Constitution. Only the CP can control the calendar.
>
> Constitution: VI, B, 1, a:
> "The collegium pontificum shall have the following honors, powers, and responsibilities:
> a. To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals and dies fasti and dies nefasti shall occur, and what their effects shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome;"
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

C. Petronious C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> But... you do not have the authority to decide what is or is not Constitutional and neither does the College of Pontiffs.

Is Constitutional what is written in the Constitution. No need of having authority to read it and know that.

> Look, Albucius has issued an edict as consul.

According to the Constitution, that everybody can read it, a consul cannot issue a such edict.

> The edict stands until it is tested in court or until he withdraws it voluntarily

I am waiting this voluntary withdrawal. But, I guess that you would like it tested in court. I know your lawyer spirit and internal fun to see a future conflict.

Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Salvete,
 
As a newly elected Tribune, I have been reading up on NR laws. I have also been reading about all the new laws that have gone into effect January 1st here in California, and I thought to share with all of you some of those mind-boggling and immutable laws that seemingly are in effect 24/7.
 
Now, I wonder if Maior or Laeca are going to ask me to translate them into Latin? Please NO! I'll be at it for the rest of my life! LOL
 
Well, I'll just chance it. Enjoy and ponder. :)
 
Valete,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
___________________________________________  
 

Law of Gravity
Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.
 

Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don’t know what you are talking about.
 
Law of Public Speaking
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
 
Law of Mechanical Repair
After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and you’ll have to pee.
 
Law of Probability
The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions.
 
Law of Random Numbers
If you dial a wrong number, you never get a busy signal and someone always answers.
 
Law of the Alibi
If you lie to your boss and tell him/her that you were late for work because you had a "flat tire", the very next morning, guess what? You will have a flat tire.
 
Variation Law
If you change lines (or traffic lanes), the one you were in will always move faster than the one you are in now (works every time).
 
Law of the Bath
When the body is fully immersed in water, the doorbell rings.
 
Law of Close Encounters
The probability of meeting someone you know increases dramatically when you are with someone you don’t want to be seen with.
 
Law of the Result
When you try to prove to someone that a machine won’t work, it will..
 
Law of Bio-mechanics
The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.
 
Law of the Theater
At any event, the people whose seats are furthest from the aisle arrive last.
 
The Starbucks Law
As soon as you sit down to a cup of hot coffee, your boss will ask you to do something which will last until the coffee is cold.
 
Murphy’s Law of Lockers
If there are only two people in a locker room, they will have adjacent lockers.
 
Law of Physical Surfaces
The chances of an open-faced jelly sandwich landing face down on a floor covering are directly correlated to the newness and cost of the carpet/rug.
 
Law of Commercial Marketing Strategy
As soon as you find a product that you really like, they will stop making it.
 
Doctors’ Law
If you don’t feel well, make an appointment to go to the doctor. By the time you get there, you’ll feel better. Don’t make an appointment and you’ll stay sick. 
 
and finally my own addition...
 
Law of Learning Languages
All the words and phrases you learned in a foreign language you will never need when you visit the country of the language you are learning, and all the ones you didn't bother to learn because you thought no way you would ever have need of them... guess what? First day there, you need them.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

This confuses me:

"According to the Constitution, that everybody can read it, a consul cannot issue a such edict."

Exactly where in the Constitution do you find this idea?

Vale,

Cato

Nope, couldn't get your link to work, but I found the site and I think this is the video you mentioned: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100120.html
It's awesome! Thanks for sharing.
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

This may be slightly off topic, but then we all live in the universe,
and many of us could use some perspective, especially when truly petty
concerns occupy too much time and space. For a little perspective, try this
one on for size. I had given the basic reference a few days ago; this
should be the exact one, despite my lack of talent with URLs and other
matters cybernetic.

<http://antwrp. gsfc.gov/ apod/ap100120. html> This is a video, and will
take some time to download.

If you feel like seeing Jupiter rotate, consult this one:
<http://antwrp. gsfc.gov/ apod/ap100124. html> This is also a video, but quite
short. There is a recent still picture of a partial solar eclipse over
Sounion and some other classical scenes from other years available on the
archives page. Hope the URLs are correct...

Valete!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Super cool! Thanks for sharing. Love those really good links for music.
Thank you, Livia.
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,

there are several CD's of reconstructed Roman music around. My favourite is
by a Roman group called Ludi Scaenici, but the german group Musica Romana is
also very good.
Their albums can be downloaded legally from http://mp3legal. org That's how I
got them for the Saturnalia party last year.
The hymn to Nemesis is one of the few actual scores surviving from
antiquity. Another one is the hymn to Helios. These are usually featured by
all music reconstructionist groups, and usually the other compositions are
not on par with these. It seems Mesomedes from Crete was really a good
composer, even based on these few fragments. Mesomedes' compositions can be
all found on Youtube, in various versions.

Optime valete,
Livia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete quirites;
I too wish to congratulate the new sacerdotes it is truly wonderful & exciting to see the religio grow and grow!

I too want to congratulate my friends Julia Aquila, who already has a live temple and has been a true sacerdos.

And especially M. Lucretius Agricola who I am proud to call friend, and who has done so much for the religio through the nrwiki and through his discussions of Roman culture, we have come so far due to him.
I know he will be a great augur devoting himself to his duties. A true Roman.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcus.lucretius" <marcus.lucretius@...> wrote:
>
> Agricola Plautae sal.
>
> Thank you very much. Luckily, I rise early anyway, 5:30 AM is typical, and I have easy access to natural places. There are also many birds of every type around here, as I live on a narrow bit of land between the mountains and the sea.
>
> I am looking forward to learning from M. Piscinus and C. Modianus and I hope that after careful study I will be able to provide useful service to the Res Publica.
>
> optime vale
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> > I would like to congratulate the new sacerdotes.
> > Specially my friend Julia Aquila, who I'm sure is already a very competent
> > sacerdos for Venus Genetrix.
> > I'm very glad to see a new augur in the person of Agricola. I'm sure he will
> > perform successfully this ungrateful job (involving early rises and outdoor
> > activity in all weathers).
> > Thank you, Agricola, for doing this!
> >
> > Optime valete,
> > Livia
> >
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Maximae Valeriae Messallinae quiritibus, sociis,
> peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
>
> Nope, couldn't get your link to work, but I found the site and I think this is
> the video you mentioned: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100120.html
>
>
> ATS: Yes, that¹s it. I think there is an extra space between the dot
> after the numbers and html...it was late when I sent this. Thanks for sending
> the correction.
>
> It's awesome! Thanks for sharing.
>
> ATS: Isn¹t it, though? There are a couple with Jupiter rotating, and
> some with comets and what have you flying about, too, as well as many
> beautiful still pictures. I heartily recommend that anyone who has the
> remotest interest in astronomy check these out.
>
> You¹re quite welcome.
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>
> Vale, et valete!
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/29/10, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
> This may be slightly off topic, but then we all live in the universe,
> and many of us could use some perspective, especially when truly petty
> concerns occupy too much time and space. For a little perspective, try this
> one on for size. I had given the basic reference a few days ago; this
> should be the exact one, despite my lack of talent with URLs and other
> matters cybernetic.
>
> <http://antwrp. gsfc.gov/ apod/ap100120. html> This is a video, and will
> take some time to download.
>
> If you feel like seeing Jupiter rotate, consult this one:
> <http://antwrp. gsfc.gov/ apod/ap100124. html> This is also a video, but quite
> short. There is a recent still picture of a partial solar eclipse over
> Sounion and some other classical scenes from other years available on the
> archives page. Hope the URLs are correct...
>
> Valete!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL!
But they are all corollaries to Murphy's law!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maxima Valeria Messallina" <maximavaleriamessallina@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:50 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] OT: The Laws...


Salvete,

As a newly elected Tribune, I have been reading up on NR laws. I have also
been reading about all the new laws that have gone into effect January 1st
here in California, and I thought to share with all of you some of those
mind-boggling and immutable laws that seemingly are in effect 24/7.

Now, I wonder if Maior or Laeca are going to ask me to translate them into
Latin? Please NO! I'll be at it for the rest of my life! LOL

Well, I'll just chance it. Enjoy and ponder. :)

Valete,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
___________________________________________


Law of Gravity
Any tool, when dropped, will roll to the least accessible corner.


Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don’t know what you are talking about.

Law of Public Speaking
A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Law of Mechanical Repair
After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and
you’ll have to pee.

Law of Probability
The probability of being watched is directly proportional to the stupidity
of your actions.

Law of Random Numbers
If you dial a wrong number, you never get a busy signal and someone always
answers.

Law of the Alibi
If you lie to your boss and tell him/her that you were late for work because
you had a "flat tire", the very next morning, guess what? You will have a
flat tire.

Variation Law
If you change lines (or traffic lanes), the one you were in will always move
faster than the one you are in now (works every time).

Law of the Bath
When the body is fully immersed in water, the doorbell rings.

Law of Close Encounters
The probability of meeting someone you know increases dramatically when you
are with someone you don’t want to be seen with.

Law of the Result
When you try to prove to someone that a machine won’t work, it will..

Law of Bio-mechanics
The severity of the itch is inversely proportional to the reach.

Law of the Theater
At any event, the people whose seats are furthest from the aisle arrive
last.

The Starbucks Law
As soon as you sit down to a cup of hot coffee, your boss will ask you to do
something which will last until the coffee is cold.

Murphy’s Law of Lockers
If there are only two people in a locker room, they will have adjacent
lockers.

Law of Physical Surfaces
The chances of an open-faced jelly sandwich landing face down on a floor
covering are directly correlated to the newness and cost of the carpet/rug.

Law of Commercial Marketing Strategy
As soon as you find a product that you really like, they will stop making
it.

Doctors’ Law
If you don’t feel well, make an appointment to go to the doctor. By the time
you get there, you’ll feel better. Don’t make an appointment and you’ll stay
sick.

and finally my own addition...

Law of Learning Languages
All the words and phrases you learned in a foreign language you will never
need when you visit the country of the language you are learning, and all
the ones you didn't bother to learn because you thought no way you would
ever have need of them... guess what? First day there, you need them.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

um, could the tribunes veto these en masse, perhaps? The entire world would be *so* grateful (grin).

Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> Exactly where in the Constitution do you find this idea?

Why this word of "idea"? Are you wanting a philosophical debate? Unfortunately, the one who was Philosopher in this list, the missed Regulus, has gone.

I do not find ideas in the Constitution but words and spirit. If you read the Constitution you will have the answer to your question.

Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Dexter Neroni s.p.d.,

> This thread is going good but I thought that I should point out that when I started it I meant modern hymns, in the sense of using modern instruments and a modern sound. For example rock hymns, etc.

I think that it is a good idea. Modern music with Latin lyrics, of course. But what kind of Hymn? As you wrote "pagan hymns" I think that you want to sing hymn towards gods. Many hymns yet exist to the gods, you just have to find music.

But what about an anthem (national hymn) of Nova Roma?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Maria Caeca Neroni dextero omnibusque sal,

I rather like the idea of a Nova Roman anthem. I think this would be an excellent project for our musicians and Latinist poets to investigate. I'm neither, but I would enjoy the results, and probably even sing whatever we create (in privitum, naturally). I do think that the music should be as traditionally Ancient Roman as we can manage ...but that's about as far as my valid contributions can go (grin). Still ...most intriguing idea!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mairo Neroni sal;
I know two engineers in Nova Roma, L. Arminius Fastus and Gn. Salvius Astur and both are devotees of Minerva, though Faustus agreed Vulcan was of course the obvious choice. Romans didn't worship Prometheus, as far as I know.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Nero" <rikudemyx@...> wrote:
>
> SO I recently had to make a very VERY hard decision. I switched my major from medicine to engineering and I was curious what Gods would be considered to patronize that field.
> Obviously there are various disciplines and your input on the different Gods that look over each one would be nice.
> Prometheus comes right into my head as well as Vulcan.
> Any others you can think of?
> Come one people we have thousand of Gods lets think :)
> DVIC
> Nero
>

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Unfortunately it seems that you are still unwilling to take on the simplest of responsibility for your own words. You claim something based on the Constitution, yet cannot simply point to where in the Constitution you find any support for your words.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > Exactly where in the Constitution do you find this idea?
>
> Why this word of "idea"? Are you wanting a philosophical debate? Unfortunately, the one who was Philosopher in this list, the missed Regulus, has gone.
>
> I do not find ideas in the Constitution but words and spirit. If you read the Constitution you will have the answer to your question.
>
> Vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Maior Dextro sal;
here is Cato the friend of Nova Roma; he will argue ad nauseum but contribute nothing positive. I just ignore him, as Modianus said and as was done in NR's past: only a tribune can do anything.
Gratias tibi ago for your corrections! I am really grateful as I have no opportunity to write in latin in my class.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
>
> Unfortunately it seems that you are still unwilling to take on the simplest of responsibility for your own words. You claim something based on the Constitution, yet cannot simply point to where in the Constitution you find any support for your words.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
> >
> > > Exactly where in the Constitution do you find this idea?
> >
> > Why this word of "idea"? Are you wanting a philosophical debate? Unfortunately, the one who was Philosopher in this list, the missed Regulus, has gone.
> >
> > I do not find ideas in the Constitution but words and spirit. If you read the Constitution you will have the answer to your question.
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

And here is Maior whose ignorance of, and lack of respect for, Nova Roman law make her magistracy a delight to behold yet a mystery beyond all human understanding.

It is unsurprising that the immediate response of our praetor is to sling mud and call names rather than take an actual interest in the workings of the law. It's much easier to throw things than to have intelligent conversation.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Dextro sal;
> here is Cato the friend of Nova Roma; he will argue ad nauseum but contribute nothing positive. I just ignore him, as Modianus said and as was done in NR's past: only a tribune can do anything.
> Gratias tibi ago for your corrections! I am really grateful as I have no opportunity to write in latin in my class.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
> >
> > Unfortunately it seems that you are still unwilling to take on the simplest of responsibility for your own words. You claim something based on the Constitution, yet cannot simply point to where in the Constitution you find any support for your words.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
> > >
> > > > Exactly where in the Constitution do you find this idea?
> > >
> > > Why this word of "idea"? Are you wanting a philosophical debate? Unfortunately, the one who was Philosopher in this list, the missed Regulus, has gone.
> > >
> > > I do not find ideas in the Constitution but words and spirit. If you read the Constitution you will have the answer to your question.
> > >
> > > Vale.
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > Arcoiali scribebat
> > > a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > >
> >
>

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

That is because many of us are tired of your "intelligent conversation."

Vale;

Modianus

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> And here is Maior whose ignorance of, and lack of respect for, Nova Roman
> law make her magistracy a delight to behold yet a mystery beyond all human
> understanding.
>
> It is unsurprising that the immediate response of our praetor is to sling
> mud and call names rather than take an actual interest in the workings of
> the law. It's much easier to throw things than to have intelligent
> conversation.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Mariae Caecae omnibusque s.p.d.,

> I rather like the idea of a Nova Roman anthem. I think this would be an excellent project for our musicians and Latinist poets to investigate.

I was thinking about a chorus of the anthem with 8 verses whose the initials write N.O.V.A.R.O.M.A...

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Caesar Modiano sal.

Some might say that this current situation is the natural result of the intellectually dishonest, and legally flawed, "solution" adopted by last year's consuls to sustain you in the position of censor. Those consuls decided that they could interpret the tribunician veto of the election results as unconstitutional. Effectively they ignored it. This year's consul, Albucius, has done no more than to follow the precedent set by last year's consuls by decreeing that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional. He has issued an edict to effectively "ignore" that decision by the CP. Now suddenly this year some seem to think only a Tribune could override the CP. It is mildly amusing to me that the goal posts are being, once again, hurriedly moved around on the field to suit the needs of the select few.

This is why it is so unwise as to continually break and bend the law to suit the needs of the moment. Eventually someone else hijacks the logic behind it and uses it against you.

Optime vale.


From: David Kling
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:50 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum


Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

That is because many of us are tired of your "intelligent conversation."

Vale;

Modianus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maior Dextro Caecae spd;
I'd heard years ago there was some music, but I don't know more. I think this is a fantastic project, so creative!
optime valete
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Mariae Caecae omnibusque s.p.d.,
>
> > I rather like the idea of a Nova Roman anthem. I think this would be an excellent project for our musicians and Latinist poets to investigate.
>
> I was thinking about a chorus of the anthem with 8 verses whose the initials write N.O.V.A.R.O.M.A...
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

I, Lucia Livia Plauta as a Lictrix of Nova Roma, hereby witness the
appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L. Julia Aquila as
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos Vestalis of Nova
Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their
offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.

Ego, L. Livia Plauta , lictrix curiata Novae Romae testificor M. Lucretium
Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis,
C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae Novae Romae creari.
Lictrix Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Dexter Neroni s.p.d.,
>
>> > This thread is going good but I thought that I should point out that when I
>> started it I meant modern hymns, in the sense of using modern instruments and
>> a modern sound. For example rock hymns, etc.
>
> I think that it is a good idea. Modern music with Latin lyrics, of course. But
> what kind of Hymn? As you wrote "pagan hymns" I think that you want to sing
> hymn towards gods. Many hymns yet exist to the gods, you just have to find
> music.
>
> But what about an anthem (national hymn) of Nova Roma?
>
> ATS: Some years ago, we discussed this, and it seems that M. Cassius
> Julianus accepted a slight modification of Calix Sanctus for this purpose.
> You may be familiar with this as a hymn for Provincia (1. Provinciae
> propinemus celebrandae patriae/omnes ordine bibamus merum nostrae
> vineae//[chorus] calix sancte, ignis plene, funde¹ animis/ardorem funde
> laetum/viresque fortium//2. gentis liber¹et antiquae/optat cladem
> barbarus/lingua nostra si taceret/decus nostrum¹ occideret// [chorus] 3. immo
> gentis resurgentis/prima simus semina!/et Latinae civitatis/condamus
> fundamina). There could hardly be a more appropriate one, once one
> substitutes Novae Romae for Provinciae.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. III Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d,

>>This year's consul, Albucius, has done no more than to follow the precedent set by last year's consuls by decreeing that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional.

He did not decree that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional, he said unconstitutional a sentence on the current CP edictum passed on Aug. 2004/2757!

It is the opinion of the CP to change the Gregorians month names in a later session by the Republican ones...

But this decretum was not unconstitutional neither to change it. That is the duty of the CP. Only the CP control NR calendar and can change it as it wants "within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome".

Vale quam optime.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
Pr. Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.




He has issued an edict to effectively "ignore" that decision by the CP. Now suddenly this year some seem to think only a Tribune could override the CP. It is mildly amusing to me that the goal posts are being, once again, hurriedly moved around on the field to suit the needs of the select few.

>
> This is why it is so unwise as to continually break and bend the law to suit the needs of the moment. Eventually someone else hijacks the logic behind it and uses it against you.
>
> Optime vale.
>
>
> From: David Kling
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:50 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> That is because many of us are tired of your "intelligent conversation."
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caeca Magistrae omnibusque sal,

Ah! Was that anthem put to music, and is there, perchance, a sound file, somewhere?

C. Maria Caeca, (just taking a break to eat and read mail, honest!) (grin)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Dextro sal,

I do understand your distinction but if part of the edictum is unconstitutional then surely it isn't that much of a stretch mentally to deduce that the CP acted unconstitutionally in passing the edictum? The edictum did not materialize out of thin air, it was brought into being by a vote of the CP. I personally think it quite reasonable to say that "the actions of the CP are unconstitutional" because they voted to approve something that the consul deems unconstitutional. However I do understand you prefer your analysis.

I think that the real issue revolves not around the nature of decision by the CP over the calendar, which to me is fairly innocuous in itself, but rather a difference of opinion between the CP and the Consul as to who has the power to do what. Some may not see the actions of last year as different from the action taken by Albucius this year. He clearly feels he has the right to do this, as the consuls last year felt they had the right to ignore the veto, a position which I believe you supported.

Last year the tribunes supporting the veto felt that only tribunes could overturn a veto. The consuls felt they could ignore it as unconstitutional. Last year you supported the right of the consuls to interpret the constitution.

This year some of the CP feels that only the CP can decide on the calendar. This year Consul Albucius feels he can ignore this as it is unconstitutional. This year you seem, by dint of extrapolating your position to what seems to me to be its logical end result, to deny the right of a consul to interpret the constitution.

So I think this is actually more about the right of a consul (or not) to interpret the constitution and the right of another office or institution (or not) to deny the consul that right. To me the same principle last year used to support a position favorable to you and others is now being stood on its head, because the consequence of that principle is no longer favorable.

Anyway, good luck in trying to make sense of all of this.

Optime vale.



From: petronius_dexter
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum


C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d,

>>This year's consul, Albucius, has done no more than to follow the precedent set by last year's consuls by decreeing that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional.

He did not decree that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional, he said unconstitutional a sentence on the current CP edictum passed on Aug. 2004/2757!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- >
Last year the tribunes vetoed the election of the citizens. This never occurred in NR, nor in Republican Rome, tribunes could veto until the sortition. That was the last moment.

This is why such an illegal act was ignored. It was utterly ahistorical, when tribunes went against the will of the people, they were killed.

One issue has nothing to do with the other.

If we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile.
Maior



So I think this is actually more about the right of a consul (or not) to interpret the constitution and the right of another office or institution (or not) to deny the consul that right. To me the same principle last year used to support a position favorable to you and others is now being stood on its head, because the consequence of that principle is no longer favorable.

>
> Anyway, good luck in trying to make sense of all of this.
>
> Optime vale.
>
>
>
> From: petronius_dexter
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:54 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
> C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d,
>
> >>This year's consul, Albucius, has done no more than to follow the precedent set by last year's consuls by decreeing that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional.
>
> He did not decree that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional, he said unconstitutional a sentence on the current CP edictum passed on Aug. 2004/2757!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Mariae Caecae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Caeca Magistrae omnibusque sal,
>
> Ah! Was that anthem put to music, and is there, perchance, a sound file,
> somewhere?
>
> ATS: It¹s available on the tapes for the Assimil text, where it is the
> last song (lesson 97). Those of us who have been through Sermo II or Sermo
> Combined are familiar with this. Possibly the French original is available
> elsewhere; I believe it is the anthem of Provence. I could call you and sing
> it to you, but your ears might hurt during and after the attempt...
>
> C. Maria Caeca, (just taking a break to eat and read mail, honest!) (grin)
>
> ATS: And your magistra is finishing up a break before resuming Sermo I
> midterm correction. I¹m about a third through, or almost done with the
> non-Spanish speakers (when one has two Russians, an Austrian, an Italian,
> someone with a Germanic name living in Spain, and four Americans in a group,
> it seems hardly right to call all of them English speakers). The Spanish
> speakers mostly hail from the other side of the water, but the so-called
> English speakers are more diverse. Don¹t forget Pensa 13... You will need all
> of your strength to cope with L 14 (and some of the others), so best to rest a
> bit and fortify yourself.
>
> Vale, et valete!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby
witness the appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L.
Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos
Vestalis, Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae of Nova Roma. As a
member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their offices and
in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.

Ego, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus , lictor curiatus Novae Romae
testificor M. Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam
sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis, C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae, et
Sibyllam Ambrosiam Fulviam sacerdotem Mithrae Novae Romae creari.

Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Maiori sal.

No, they didn't. The tribunes vetoed the acceptance of the voting results, not the voting itself. And despite repeated requests, your claim regarding sortition was never supported by ancient sources - which is par for the course for pretty much everything you claim is "historic", like the closing of the Senate House.

And it doesn't matter if *you* think it unhistoric or whatever, it is our law - our Constitution - that gives the tribunes the authority to veto *any action of a magistrate*. Our law - our Constitution - does not give the College of Pontiffs the right to act unconstitutionally.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- >
> Last year the tribunes vetoed the election of the citizens. This never occurred in NR, nor in Republican Rome, tribunes could veto until the sortition. That was the last moment.
>
> This is why such an illegal act was ignored. It was utterly ahistorical, when tribunes went against the will of the people, they were killed.
>
> One issue has nothing to do with the other.
>
> If we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile.
> Maior
>
>
>
> So I think this is actually more about the right of a consul (or not) to interpret the constitution and the right of another office or institution (or not) to deny the consul that right. To me the same principle last year used to support a position favorable to you and others is now being stood on its head, because the consequence of that principle is no longer favorable.
> >
> > Anyway, good luck in trying to make sense of all of this.
> >
> > Optime vale.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: petronius_dexter
> > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:54 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d,
> >
> > >>This year's consul, Albucius, has done no more than to follow the precedent set by last year's consuls by decreeing that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional.
> >
> > He did not decree that the actions of the CP are unconstitutional, he said unconstitutional a sentence on the current CP edictum passed on Aug. 2004/2757!
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Caesar Maiori sal.

Well if what you say were so, that "we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile" we would be both pacing the same small rocky outcrop, since out of petulance and political opposition a number of prominent Nova Roman's failed to participate, yourself included. Why? Because they were held by me, post the MMP saga unfolding. Petulance Maior, sheer petulance. The games were held. That is what was required. What was missing was any sign of participation from some of my political opponents, thus to me proving that some of you would make a political statement out of even this non-political event. Of course it doesn't surprise me one whit that you have, amongst all your other self-proclaimed abilities, taken on to yourself critic of the value of the games :}

I held the games but you failed to participate, so who actually showed the Gods more disrespect Maior? Oh I am sure you will say it was me, for of course you will :} but could it just be the Gods noticed your absence and those of a number of your friends? You who all so fervently and with almost Taliban like venom declaim who the righteous among us are failed to attend and take part. I do however await your production of a snippet of un-related text from Google books to prove me utterly wrong and you utterly correct, as is your established modus operandi.

Now, that matter is out of the way :} and returning to the substantive issue at hand, could it not be that Albucius considers this unconstitutional and illegal too? I think the issues do very much have something to do with each other, in that they proudly proclaim the elasticity of legal interpretation and justification that exists amongst some of you fine people running the show. Ok one day if it suits us, wrong the next day if it doesn't suit us.

One might say, let the games continue, for games they are and far more riveting than anything any Curule Aedile could put on. I'll just sit in the bleachers and watch all this remarkable legal twisting and turning going on on the sand below.

Optime vale


From: rory12001
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:01 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum




--- >
Last year the tribunes vetoed the election of the citizens. This never occurred in NR, nor in Republican Rome, tribunes could veto until the sortition. That was the last moment.

This is why such an illegal act was ignored. It was utterly ahistorical, when tribunes went against the will of the people, they were killed.

One issue has nothing to do with the other.

If we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile.
Maior


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ego, M.Hortensia Maior , lictrix curiata Novae Romae testificor M. Lucretium
Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis,
C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae Novae Romae creari.
Lictrix Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
officiis muneribusque suis fungantur

I, M.Hortensia Maior as a Lictrix of Nova Roma, hereby witness the
appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L. Julia Aquila as
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos Vestalis of Nova
Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their
offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana


May the gods favour Nova Roma!! Dii Novae Romae favent!!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Ego, L. Livia Plauta , lictrix curiata Novae Romae testificor M. Lucretium
> Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis,
> C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae Novae Romae creari.
> Lictrix Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
> officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.
>

C. Petronius A. Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque s.p.d.,

> ATS: It¹s available on the tapes for the Assimil text, where it is the last song (lesson 97). Those of us who have been through Sermo II or Sermo Combined are familiar with this. Possibly the French original is available elsewhere; I believe it is the anthem of Provence.

Yes, it is the anthem of the Provence written by Frédéric Mistral. The lyrics are written and sung in Provinçal not in French.

You can hear it here (with French subtitles):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Bi9YL1g74&feature=related

Vale quam optime.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Pr. Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d.,

> I do understand your distinction but if part of the edictum is unconstitutional then surely it isn't that much of a stretch mentally to deduce that the CP acted unconstitutionally in passing the edictum?

You can deduce that, of course. But what is unconstitutional in the CP Decretum? The new Decretum did not yet amend the passage said "unconstitutional" by the current consul, written and in force since Aug. 2004.

If this passage was "unconstitutional" when it was passed, the consuls of this time or whatever tribune Plebis of the year 2004 can veto it. They did not.

>>> The edictum did not materialize out of thin air, it was brought into being by a vote of the CP. I personally think it quite reasonable to say that "the actions of the CP are unconstitutional" because they voted to approve something that the consul deems unconstitutional. However I do understand you prefer your analysis.

The consul does not deem unconstitutional the actions of the CP, he deems unconstitutional a passage of the current decretum passed on 2004.

> I think that the real issue revolves not around the nature of decision by the CP over the calendar, which to me is fairly innocuous in itself, but rather a difference of opinion between the CP and the Consul as to who has the power to do what.

Here the Constitution is clear:
1.Only the CP can control the calendar.
2.An edictum of a consul cannot overrule a decretum pontificum (except if a SCU give him this right).

Vale quam optime.

C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
Pr. Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Caesar Dextro sal.

I see your points. I see those of Albucius too. I make no judgment on either. I am not making a case for either of the involved parties in this matter, but I am pointing out that to me it seems this is more about what a consul thinks he can do and what others say he cannot in respect of interpreting the constitution, which was the same issue last year over the veto.

If it was right last year to allow the consuls to interpret the constitution, why should it be wrong this year? I don't think that has been addressed, and I suspect many would rather not address it because if it is wrong this year, then it was wrong last year and the veto should have been respected, in which case Modianus should not be censor. Golly gosh, that will never do will it? So it seems some are all jumping off that particular legal train of thought and clambering onto another one, with a totally different destination, with far more palatable results, despite what appears to be a huge inconsistency of logic.

Now I appreciate you think the consul is wrong in his interpretation, but then again a number of us thought the consuls wrong last year in their interpretations, little good did it do us :} So I deduce from this it really boils down to if your face fits, and if the issue is favorable to all you fine people running the show. The actual consistency of the principle that a consul has the right to interpret the constitution (which I make no comment on) is less important now that the boot is on the other foot, so to speak.

It really does seem to me that some people are getting hoist by their own petard. As I said, good luck :}

Optime vale.


From: petronius_dexter
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:57 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum


C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d.,

> I do understand your distinction but if part of the edictum is unconstitutional then surely it isn't that much of a stretch mentally to deduce that the CP acted unconstitutionally in passing the edictum?

You can deduce that, of course. But what is unconstitutional in the CP Decretum? The new Decretum did not yet amend the passage said "unconstitutional" by the current consul, written and in force since Aug. 2004.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Caesari sal.

Actually, if Maior's statement that if "we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods...", then I can only imagine what would have happened to *her* after being declared "nefas" - a state of utter contradiction to the ius divinum - by the College of Pontiffs a couple of years ago.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar Maiori sal.
>
> Well if what you say were so, that "we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile" we would be both pacing the same small rocky outcrop, since out of petulance and political opposition a number of prominent Nova Roman's failed to participate, yourself included. Why? Because they were held by me, post the MMP saga unfolding. Petulance Maior, sheer petulance. The games were held. That is what was required. What was missing was any sign of participation from some of my political opponents, thus to me proving that some of you would make a political statement out of even this non-political event. Of course it doesn't surprise me one whit that you have, amongst all your other self-proclaimed abilities, taken on to yourself critic of the value of the games :}
>
> I held the games but you failed to participate, so who actually showed the Gods more disrespect Maior? Oh I am sure you will say it was me, for of course you will :} but could it just be the Gods noticed your absence and those of a number of your friends? You who all so fervently and with almost Taliban like venom declaim who the righteous among us are failed to attend and take part. I do however await your production of a snippet of un-related text from Google books to prove me utterly wrong and you utterly correct, as is your established modus operandi.
>
> Now, that matter is out of the way :} and returning to the substantive issue at hand, could it not be that Albucius considers this unconstitutional and illegal too? I think the issues do very much have something to do with each other, in that they proudly proclaim the elasticity of legal interpretation and justification that exists amongst some of you fine people running the show. Ok one day if it suits us, wrong the next day if it doesn't suit us.
>
> One might say, let the games continue, for games they are and far more riveting than anything any Curule Aedile could put on. I'll just sit in the bleachers and watch all this remarkable legal twisting and turning going on on the sand below.
>
> Optime vale
>
>
> From: rory12001
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:01 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
>
>
> --- >
> Last year the tribunes vetoed the election of the citizens. This never occurred in NR, nor in Republican Rome, tribunes could veto until the sortition. That was the last moment.
>
> This is why such an illegal act was ignored. It was utterly ahistorical, when tribunes went against the will of the people, they were killed.
>
> One issue has nothing to do with the other.
>
> If we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods by the shoddy to nil games you failed to put on as curule aedile.
> Maior
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Maior Dextro spd;

gods let them return to the BA where they will congratulate each other as geniuses, rather than do anything real, productive or positive for NR

I am really proud of the CP, the new religous officials, camilli. With Agricola in Japan, you, Lentulus and Sabinus in Europe, the U.S, we almost ring the earth! Just one more sacerdos for the Southern Hemisphere...

as opposed to below, pathetic....
---

>
> CAESAR It really does seem to me that some people are getting hoist by their own petard. As I said, good luck :}
>
> Optime vale.
>
>
> From: petronius_dexter
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:57 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
> C. Petronius Cn. Caesari s.p.d.,
>
> > I do understand your distinction but if part of the edictum is unconstitutional then surely it isn't that much of a stretch mentally to deduce that the CP acted unconstitutionally in passing the edictum?
>
> You can deduce that, of course. But what is unconstitutional in the CP Decretum? The new Decretum did not yet amend the passage said "unconstitutional" by the current consul, written and in force since Aug. 2004.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Tullius Valerianus Maiori S.P.D.

gods let them return to the BA where they will congratulate each other as

> geniuses, rather than do anything real, productive or positive for NR
>
> I understand you wanting them to go away to the Back Alley, but why would

you wish that people not do anything real, productive, or positive for NR? I
hope *everyone* in NR does real, productive, positive things! Be careful of
how you word things when you invoke the gods!


--
"Qua(e) patres difficillime
adepti sunt nolite
turpiter relinquere" -
Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
(Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)

Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="
http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">
http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Catoni sal.

Well amice history, not to mention laws and their interpretation, gets re-written so often around here that I am sure that will be rebutted. Any inconvenient fact is dismissed as either an outright lie (a lie in itself so often), or mangled and twisted to obscure truth and promote instead the "official truth". Nova Roma has its own ruling class and they rewrite what they want, when they want. Does any of this latest round of shenanigans really surprise you? I note that Maior has just totally ignored the substantive issue and resorted to her tried and tested routine of posting irrelevance about the BA and trying to refocus attention on anything but the matter at hand.

Governance by smoke and mirrors, and verbal parlor conjuring tricks to make nasty unpalatable issues and those of us who hold them up to the light vanish. Let's deflect at all cost and hopefully it will all be dismissed as "pathetic", when in reality what is pathetic is that 50% of the responsibility for the application of Nova Roma's legal code lies in the hands of Maior, someone noted for an inability to credibly argue a legal point from start to finish without flying off the handle into over emotive postings. Instead of advancing a credible explanation of why the consul is wrong or right, an analytical reasoning based on an examination of the constitution, what we are served as a conclusion is that anyone who disagrees or questions, and who she dislikes, is "pathetic". Is that in itself not truly and utterly pathetic? I find it regrettable that when a discussion heads off into a direction she disapproves of, that the measure of the articulate response from Maior is only "pathetic". By all means throw that around if you wish, but could she for once try to include a credible chain of deductive reasoning as to why someone is actually wrong? Clearly not.

Oh well :} for those who voted for her one assumes this response is perfectly acceptable, for this is hardly recent behavior on her part in responding to opposing views. Another stupendous example of Nova Roman debating skills.

Optime vale.



From: Cato
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:32 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum


Cato Caesari sal.

Actually, if Maior's statement that if "we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods...", then I can only imagine what would have happened to *her* after being declared "nefas" - a state of utter contradiction to the ius divinum - by the College of Pontiffs a couple of years ago.

Vale,

Cato



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maior C Tullio spd;
I was using apposition to make a point. I wish they would do something positive, but you're right I'll be more careful in invoking the gods in the future!
optime vale
Maio

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...> wrote:
>
> C. Tullius Valerianus Maiori S.P.D.
>
> gods let them return to the BA where they will congratulate each other as
> > geniuses, rather than do anything real, productive or positive for NR
> >
> > I understand you wanting them to go away to the Back Alley, but why would
> you wish that people not do anything real, productive, or positive for NR? I
> hope *everyone* in NR does real, productive, positive things! Be careful of
> how you word things when you invoke the gods!
>
>
> --
> "Qua(e) patres difficillime
> adepti sunt nolite
> turpiter relinquere" -
> Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
> (Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)
>
> Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="
> http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">
> http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Maior Quiritibus spd;
To be brief: The praetrices aren't involved in this matter as

1. the calendar is under the ius pontificum - it is under pontifical law

2. The imperium of a consul is greater than a praetor.

Therefore it is the sole province of the Pontifices to decide the calendar, and if I disagreed with the actions of a consul as praetor I can do nothing.
vale
Maior

ps I suggest you learn from Dexter; he not only has an excellent knowledge for the law but has the felicity of being brief.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar Catoni sal.
>
> Well amice history, not to mention laws and their interpretation, gets re-written so often around here that I am sure that will be rebutted. Any inconvenient fact is dismissed as either an outright lie (a lie in itself so often), or mangled and twisted to obscure truth and promote instead the "official truth". Nova Roma has its own ruling class and they rewrite what they want, when they want. Does any of this latest round of shenanigans really surprise you? I note that Maior has just totally ignored the substantive issue and resorted to her tried and tested routine of posting irrelevance about the BA and trying to refocus attention on anything but the matter at hand.
>
> Governance by smoke and mirrors, and verbal parlor conjuring tricks to make nasty unpalatable issues and those of us who hold them up to the light vanish. Let's deflect at all cost and hopefully it will all be dismissed as "pathetic", when in reality what is pathetic is that 50% of the responsibility for the application of Nova Roma's legal code lies in the hands of Maior, someone noted for an inability to credibly argue a legal point from start to finish without flying off the handle into over emotive postings. Instead of advancing a credible explanation of why the consul is wrong or right, an analytical reasoning based on an examination of the constitution, what we are served as a conclusion is that anyone who disagrees or questions, and who she dislikes, is "pathetic". Is that in itself not truly and utterly pathetic? I find it regrettable that when a discussion heads off into a direction she disapproves of, that the measure of the articulate response from Maior is only "pathetic". By all means throw that around if you wish, but could she for once try to include a credible chain of deductive reasoning as to why someone is actually wrong? Clearly not.
>
> Oh well :} for those who voted for her one assumes this response is perfectly acceptable, for this is hardly recent behavior on her part in responding to opposing views. Another stupendous example of Nova Roman debating skills.
>
> Optime vale.
>
>
>
> From: Cato
> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 8:32 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum
>
>
> Cato Caesari sal.
>
> Actually, if Maior's statement that if "we were truly historical you probably would have been exiled for the religious disrespect you showed the gods...", then I can only imagine what would have happened to *her* after being declared "nefas" - a state of utter contradiction to the ius divinum - by the College of Pontiffs a couple of years ago.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caesar Maior sal.

I am so sorry I taxed you with a post over a few lines ;} I do understand your limitations, but sadly - for you - you aren't the only person in Nova Roma and others seem quite capable of managing a post that is a bit longer than Reader Level 1. However, you have my deepest sympathy on your affliction. I will try to do better to accommodate this disability of yours.

Brief enough?

Optime vale.


From: rory12001
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:34 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum


Maior Quiritibus spd;
To be brief: The praetrices aren't involved in this matter as



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Maori sal.

I fear that you are directing your comment at the wrong person. I think you need to tell the consul that, for clearly he doesn't share your understanding of it. He is making the legal points, not I, whereas what I pointed out was not an issue of the law, but the inconsistent application of the principle that allows the consul to interpret the law. Not only did you miss the mark in lecturing me on the law, rich indeed coming from you, but you missed the mark concerning the root issue. Bravo :}

Optime vale.



From: rory12001
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:26 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: [NovaRoma-Announce] Results of January session of the Collegium Pontificum



well you achieved brevity; now learn the law.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Here Maior invents a whole new area of law in Nova Roma - the "ius pontificum". This may have indeed existed in ancient Rome, but it has no standing in Nova Roman law, as it is nowhere defined by the Constitution or Nova Roman law. One may extrapolate the existence of such an area of law, but unless and until it is defined by our law, it cannot have standing in Nova Roma. Claiming rights and powers under ancient Roman terms is all delightful and appears very Roman until the actual extant law of the Respublica becomes involved. The same argument applies to the recent aborted attempt by the pontifex maximus to create new categories of religious villainy with which to tar Lucius Cornelius Sulla and I. Thunder away in Latin, and it sounds good and will no doubt impress the kids from the countryside, but here in the Respublica's heart we have the actual law to inform us.

The crux of the matter, however is that the consul has here simply announced his intention to not enforce this decretum as he believes it oversteps the boundaries of what is Constitutional for the College of Pontiffs to decide. An edictum is the announcement of how a magistrate intends to apply the law, or whether or not he intends to apply it at all. It in itself does not compel obedience, although the consul has within his power the ius coercendi maior (lex Arminia Equitia de imperio 2.D) if he deems it necessary for the benefit of the Respublica.

Modianus is perfectly within his rights to decide to ignore the edict; even the edict itself states quite clearly that any other office may certainly abide by the College's decretum, but any which does abide by the College's decretum does so under its own responsibility. Where Modianus falls flat is declaring that it is, in itself, unconstitutional. Only a court of law can decide that; no other authority exists that can do so in our Respublica. And in Modianus' decision to ignore the consul's edictum he also accepts the responsibility for being answerable to the consul's authority to compel compliance under the consul's imperium.

An edict may say anything it likes about how a magistrate views and interprets the law. A higher magistrate - or the tribunes - may disagree and use their own authority to veto it, but magistrates are given the right to issue edicta as they see fit. That's the law.

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Maior Quiritibus spd;
> To be brief: The praetrices aren't involved in this matter as
>
> 1. the calendar is under the ius pontificum - it is under pontifical law
>
> 2. The imperium of a consul is greater than a praetor.
>
> Therefore it is the sole province of the Pontifices to decide the calendar, and if I disagreed with the actions of a consul as praetor I can do nothing.
> vale
> Maior
>
> ps I suggest you learn from Dexter; he not only has an excellent knowledge for the law but has the felicity of being brief.
>
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Di te servassint semper

Hodie est die pristini Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est: sacra Genetae Manae; Eorum, quae supra, siderum occasus tempestatem facit, interdum tantummodo significat.


GENITA MANA

Today's festival is for the Mother of the Lares, Genita Mana. She is called Lara by Ovid, who also refers to Her as Muta, while others call Her Tacita. Supposedly, a statue of Her had a cloth placed over Her mouth as a reminder that Her true name must never be spoken. Another name for Her is Mania. Votive puppets called Maniae, which were made of wool, were hung at doorways during Compitalia and Feralia to honor the Lares and to ward off evil. They were also hung from trees at the feriae Latinae and other festivals. Another name for Genita Mania was Iana, or Diana, although this was not the same Diana of myth. Rather this Diana was the consort of Janus (Dianus). Janus and Jana, or Janus Matutus and Mater Matuta, were said to be the birth parents of all the Manes; this is, of all human souls, living and dead. Genita Mana was considered an Underworld Goddess. Since Her name could not be spoken, She was often identified with Greek Hecate, especially as the avenging aspect of Genita Mana. A reason for this identification may have been due in part to the similarity of the cultus offered to both.


"Why do they sacrifice a bitch to the Goddess called Genita Mana and pray that none of the household shall become 'good'?

"Is it because Geneta is a spirit concerned with the generation and birth of beings that perish? Her name means some such thing as "flux and birth" of "flowing birth." Accordingly, just as the Greeks sacrifice a bitch to Hecate, even so do the Romans offer the same sacrifice to Geneta on behalf of the members of their household. But Socrotes says that the Argives sacrifice a bitch to Eilioneia by reason of the ease with which the bitch brings forth its young. But does the import of the prayer, that none of them shall become 'good,' refer not to the human members of a household, but to the dogs? For dogs should be savage and terrifying.

"Or because of the fact that the dead are gracefully called "the good," are they in veiled language asking in their prayer that none of their household may die? One should not be surprised at this; Aristotle, in fact, says that there is written in the treaty of the Arcadians with the Spartans: "No one shall be made good for rendering aid to the Spartan party in Tegea;" that is, 'no one shall be put to death.'" ~ Plutarch, Roman Question 52

"Nocturnal Hecate, who is called at the crossroads throughout the City, and Avenging Dirae, and Elissa's gods of the dying, hear our prayers, heed them, and direct your awful powers against those who deserve it." ~ P. Vergilius Mauro, Aeneis 4.610-612

This darker aspect of Genita Mana is found in defixiones. The primary example of which comes from Mediolanum Santonum , Aquitania.

"I denounce the persons written below, Lentinus and Tasgillus, so that they may depart to Pluto. Just as this puppy harmed no one, so shall they be unable to harm anyone, and so they shall be unable to win their legal suit. Just as the mother of this puppy was unable to defend her young, so shall their advocate be unable to defend them, and thus shall their advocate Atracatetractus Gallara be unable to plead their case, but, in this way, may their secrets be misled to the feet of Proserpina. Just as this puppy is turned on its back and unable to go, so neither may they, just as this puppy is unable to rise up, may they be able to do so. Just as this puppy is, thus may they not be seen. Just as this puppy, just as in this tomb its animal's soul is transformed and silenced, so may they be unable to rise, and may the pronouncements of Atracatetractus Gallera in their defense be unable to mislead the opinion of the court with pleas of secret heirs." ~ CIL 13.11069

Today's festival, however, is not about this darker side of Genita Mana. There is another side, too, with the use of puppies as a sacrifice.

"They considered the flesh of suckling canine whelps to be so pure a meat that they were in the habit of using them as victims even in their expiatory sacrifices. A young whelp, too, is sacrificed to Genita Mana; and, at the repasts celebrated in honor of the Gods, it is still the usage to set the flesh of puppies on table; at the inaugural feasts, too, of the pontiffs, this dish was in common use, as we learn from the Comedies of Plautus." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 29.14

Elsewhere we are told, too, in regard to Hercules, that puppies were considered to be the sweetest offering to present to the Gods, and thus it was reserved from certain terrestrial deities. For Genita Mana, or Hecate, one should leave offerings of meal, honey, and milk on pottery shards, by night, at a three-way crossroads. (Meat, whether puppies or otherwise, would only be given for a very special favor.) This is don on the day before the Kalends of February because February is the month of purification and for the Romans purification always begins with sacrifices to the Manes. Tonight we call upon Genita Mana to intervene in our favor with the Manes.


817 BCE: Death of Anchises at Lavinium.

Perhaps connected to the festival for Genita Mana, today is also the traditional date for the death of Anchises who was the father of Aeneas,

Lavinium

Older than Rome, the city of Lavinium was founded by Aeneas, naming it, some have said, after his Latin wife. It was here that Aeneas was said to have brought the Penates of Troy, and where he instituted the worship of Vesta. Afterward Aeneas would come to be worshiped as Jupiter Indiges at his tomb, the heroon, near the banks of the River Numicus (Livy 1.2.6; Vergil, Aeneid 1.1-7; Macrobius, Saturnalia 6.2.31).

"And for him the Latins made a hero's shrine with this inscription, 'God the Earthly Father who directs the stream of the River Numicus.' There are those who say that this monument was built by Aeneas for his father Anchises in the year before the battle when this old man dies. It is an earthen affair, not large, and around it are trees set out it in rows: well worth seeing." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus 1.64.4-5

It was at Lavinium that the Consules, Praetores, and Magistri Populi (Dictators) came to sacrifice to the Penates and Vesta each year. At the extramural sanctuary famed for its thirteen altars. The oldest altar here once stood alone in the mid-sixth century. It was soon afterward joined by two more altars. A hundred years later an additional four altars had joined them. It is, however, near the end of the fourth century, after Rome had finally defeated the Latin League and taken control of the Latin shrines, that this sanctuary was reconstructed, the original altar filled in, but with other altars added to make twelve. It is about this time, 304 BCE, that Rome built the heroon of Aeneas near to the sanctuary of thirteen altars that lies south of Lavinium. Further east of the city was another extramural sanctuary for Minerva. Originally it was built around or soon after 500 BCE. Most interesting has been the discovery of a fossa with over one-hundred terracotta statues, including one of Minerva. These would seem to have been buried in the third century, around the same time that the Latin sanctuary of the thirteen altars fell out of use. Lavinium shared in many of the same culti Deorum as Rome. It is from Lavinium that the oldest inscription bearing the name of Ceres is to be found, and also the earliest mention of Castor and Pollux, from a bronze plaque among the thirteen altars. Inside the city itself were culti Deorum for Vesta, Lavinium being the only other city known for certain to have Vestal Virgins, for Juturna, the Penates, Liber, Anna Perenna, as well as for Ceres and the Dioscuri.


AUC 717 / 36 BCE: Birth of Antonia Minor, daughter of Marcus Antonius and Octavia, wife of Germanicus and later of Claudius.


Our thought for today comes from Marcus Aurelius, Medidations 8.8

"Thou hast not leisure or ability to read. But thou hast leisure or ability to check arrogance: thou hast leisure to be superior to pleasure and pain: thou hast leisure to be superior to love of fame, and not to be vexed at stupid and ungrateful people, nay even to care for them."

Cato Piscino sal.

Unless I am mistaken, the only festival held in which the Mana Genita is honored is the Compitalia, which occurs either on the Kalends of Ianuarius (Cicero, In Pisonem. 4) or a.d. IV Non. Ian. (Cicero, Epistulae ad Atticum, vii.7), not today. The celebration of the Feralia (a.d IX Kal. Mar.) is somewhat similar although no mention is made of the Mana Genita in that case; I would be interested in seeing a source reference which puts a festival to her on this day.

Once again, a confusion may have arisen in your mind as today was celebrated in ancient Greece to the honor of Hekate. She emerged by the 5th century B.C. as a more sinister divine figure associated with magic and witchcraft, lunar lore and creatures of the night, dog sacrifices and illuminated caves, as well as doorways and crossroads. She is known by many titles, among them:

1. Hekate Propylaia -- "the one before the gate" -- a guardian goddess
whose statue was often at the entrance to major temples of other
deities, primarily Demeter, or at the entrance to private homes
2. Hekate Propolos -- "the attendant who leads" -- a personal
attendant and guide, the most famous example of which is when She
leads Persephone back to Demeter from the Underworld
3. Hekate Phosphoros -- "the light bringer" -- a torch-bearer
(probably related to her role as guide, especially one who guides and
attends initiates at the Mysteries, such as the Eleusinian Mysteries);
while other deities carried a single torch, Hekate was most
prominently associated with torch-bearing, and unlike the others, She
usually carried two; though later sources identify Her as a moon
goddess (and say the torches are a symbol of Her connection with night
and the moonlight). Her early role as torch-bearer has no such
connection, though they might refer to the Morning and Evening stars
(Venus).
4. Hekate Kourotrophos -- "child's nurse" -- a title applied to nearly
all Greek goddesses and to a few Greek gods; specifically applied to
those who govern childbirth; it may refer to a maternal caring for all
mortal beings and may possibly refer to caring for women specifically

The first three of these are Her most distinctive functions, and
generally involve attending upon more prominent deities such as
Demeter, Persephone, Artemis, and Kybele. Individually they are not
unique to Her, but no other deity can claim all of them. The last two
titles, on the other hand, are shared with numerous other deities. It
does not seem possible to rank these functions as to their importance;
different ones were emphasised at different times and locations.
Hecate was the chief goddess presiding over magic and spells. She
witnessed the abduction of Demeter's daughter Persephone to the
underworld and, torch in hand, assisted in the search for her. Thus,
pillars called Hecataea stood at crossroads and doorways, perhaps to
keep away evil spirits. Hekate was represented as single-formed, clad
in a long robe, holding burning torches; in later representations she
was triple-formed, with three bodies standing back to back, probably
so that she could look in all directions at once from the crossroads.
Because of this she is sometimes referred to as the Triple Goddess.


Vale,

Cato

Vale,

Cato

Salvete Omnes,

I'm very happy to report that the Macellum list ( which is a forum for the
discussion of the creation, marketing and selling of Roman oriented goods
and services) is doing wonderfully.

The list was "restored" on January 10th, and in the last twenty one days,
26 new members have joined and there have been 64 new on-topic messages
regarding Roman oriented goods!

New members include current vendors of Roman goods, some people that are
just getting started making and merchanting Roman items, and of course
people looking to buy Roman things!

It's gratifying to see a Roman resource that has been basically dormant
for nine years come back to life in less than a month.

The goal of the Macellum list is to help build a modern "Roman economy"...
not only making "things Roman" more available to the community at large,
but also to bring interest TO the Roman community by getting more Roman goods
out there to spark people's interests.

If you haven't checked out the list as yet, you'll find it here:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Macellum/_ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Macellum/)

Sell Roman Goods. Buy Roman Goods. Rebuild Rome! :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pater Patriae, Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex domo Pontificis Maximi

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus : P. Memmio et K. Fabio Consulibus, Tribunibus Plebis, Civibus Novis Romanis, Quiritibus, et omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:

Consul P. Memmius Albucius has issued an edictum consularis concerning the deceision of the Collegium Pontificum to amend the previous Decretum Pontificum on the calendar used in Nova Roma that was passed on 4 Aug. 2004. It has been assumed by some that the Consul sought to veto a decretum of the Collegium Pontificum.

Pontifex Maximus P. Memmio Consuli respondet:

First, the Constitution grants the Collegium Pontificum sole control over the calendar, to wit, VI.B.1.a "To control the calendar, and determine when the festivals and dies fasti and dies nefasti shall occur, and what their effects shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient Rome." The Constitution does not require that the "example of ancient Rome" be exclusively that of the Republic, and indeed the past Collegium Pontificum, called by Pontifices Sicinius and Modius Anthanasius at the time, were complying with a request of civil authorities to have Nova Roma's civil calendar conform to legal requirements when filing corporate and financial reports. The consules of that time, and the consules of today, have no authority over the calendar, or what names of months shall be used in official documents.

Secondly, the Constitution VI.B.1.c states the the Collegium Pontificum has the power "To issue decreta (decrees) on matters relevant to the Religio Romana and its own internal procedures (such decreta may not be overruled by laws passed in the comitia or Senatus consultum)." As the Constitution gives sole authority over the calendar to the Collegium Pontificum, thus any matter related to the calendar falls under "matters relevant to the Religio Romana and its own internal procedures." The Constitution further states that not even a lex passed in a comitia or a senatusconsultus can overrule such a decretum pontificum.

This brings us to our third point that the Constitution I.B states: "Legal precedence. This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima, laws properly voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurum, Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending authority as described in section IV of this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take precedence." The Consul was neither made Dictator, nor did he act under an SCU. Therefore his edictum is a magisterial edictum and thus it cannot overrule or veto a decretum pontificum.

Fourthly, what Consul Memmius objected too was not addressed during this recent session of the Collegium Pontificum. That is, we did not consider amending what the previous decretum had said on the names to be used for the months. We looked to correct other portions of the specificed decretum. The objection that Consul Memmius has against use of the imperial names 'Julius' and 'Augustus' is one that I share in personally. If any go back to my daily calendar posts for those months they will see that I use 'Quintilis' and 'Sextilis' as names of summer months. The objection was also raised in our last session by Pontifex Lentulus, but he did so late in the voting so that our decretum could not be further amended at that time, or allow us to discuss this further in the recent session. We will have another session on the calendar, tentatively scheduled for September or October, when this matter of the names for months can be discussed, or we can take it up in our next session in late February.

If the Consules or members of the Senate wish to suggest Items to include on the Agenda of the Collegium Pontificum they need merely write to any of the pontifies, Vestales or flamines who are members of the Collegium. In private I have pointed out to Consul Memmius that both Censors, his Consul collega, a Praetrix, and three Tribuni Plebis, as well as a number of Senators are members of the Collegium Pontificum, and other members of the Senate, as well as Consul Memmius himself, are subscribed to the Collegium's list so there should not be a problem with communication. Properly, one should inquire and consult with others before making a knee-jerk reaction, and this applies also to those who now argue in the Forum over the possible implications of such a minor matter.

I have advised Consul Memmius, as both Pontifex Maximus and as a Consularius, as other Consularii have as well, that he should withdraw his edictum. His edictum is powerless and without any authority in Nova Roma; if applied in his cohors it shall only lead to confusion with other magistrates; the edict, if applied beyond his cohors, would also pose problems to Nova Roma where it is required to file reports and records to outside authorities every year. We need to be consistent, and we need to conform to legal notations used by outside authorities when acting as a corporation.

The same is not required, or necessary, for a separate religious calendar. Judaism and Islam use lunar calendars to designate their religious holidays, a lunar calendar that is the same as the religio Romana once used to designate the kalends, nones, and ides of each month. Certain Eastern Christian sects still use the Julian calendar, not the Gregorian, when determining their holidays, which I have advocated more than once that Nova Roma adopt for its religious calendar as well. The Collegium Pontificum does use the revised Julian calendar for certain festivals, such as the sementivae and compitalia, in order to meet certain requirements. The Julian calendar is a Roman calendar. The Gregorian is not. However, the common calendar, adopted by all nations and financial institutions today, is what Nova Roma adopted as its civil calendar. The Collegium Pontificum did not, has not, will not, alter what Nova Roma is required to legally follow, and no edictum of any magistrate can effect that earlier decision of the Senate and Collegium Pontificum.


Once again, and publicly this time, I advise our Consul Memmius to withdraw his edictum. He may address his concerns privately to the Collegium Pontificum at a future date.

I shall also call upon our Tribuni Plebis to look at the constitutional basis of these actions and privately discuss them with the Consul before they too take any action in public.

<<--- On Sun, 1/31/10, marcushoratius <MHoratius@...> wrote:
[cut]
 
I shall also call upon our Tribuni Plebis to look at the constitutional basis of these actions and privately discuss them with the Consul before they too take any action in public.>>

Duly noted.  We are in discussion amongst ourselves on this matter and will do the best we can for the good of Nova Roma.
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Tribuna Plebis

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was asked this on another list and wondered if anyone here had any ideas

"Does anyone know much about the Spartan calendar, especially when (by our
modern standards) the month of Hyacinthius would have kicked off?"

Thank you
Flavia Lucilla Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I, Paulla Corva Gaudialis, as a Lictrix of Nova Roma, hereby witness the
appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L. Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos Vestalis, Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae of
Nova Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata, I wish them good fortune
in their offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.



Paulla Corva Gaudialis







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby
witness the appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L.
Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos
Vestalis, Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae of Nova Roma. As a
member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their offices and
in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.

Ego, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus , lictor curiatus Novae Romae
testificor M. Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam
sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis, C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae, et
Sibyllam Ambrosiam Fulviam sacerdotem Mithrae Novae Romae creari.

Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.

--
"Qua(e) patres difficillime
adepti sunt nolite
turpiter relinquere" -
Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
(Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)

Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="
http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">
http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Lucillae Merullae sal.

Month Gregorian equivalent
Hekatombaeon June-July
Metageitnion July-Aug
Boedromion Aug-Sept
Puanepsion Sept-Oct
Maimakteron Oct-Nov
Poseideon Nov-Dec
Gamelion Dec-Jan
Anthesterion Jan-Feb
Elaphebolion Feb-March
Mounychion March-April
Thargelion April-May
Skirophorion May-June

according to The Oxford Classical Dictionary (2003)

The Hyakinthos was a summer celebration, but I haven't found out exactly which month it occurred in. If I do, I will let you know :)

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> I was asked this on another list and wondered if anyone here had any ideas
>
> "Does anyone know much about the Spartan calendar, especially when (by our
> modern standards) the month of Hyacinthius would have kicked off?"
>
> Thank you
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ego, M.Hortensia Maior , lictrix curiata Novae Romae testificor M. Lucretium
Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis,
C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae Novae Romae creari.
Lictrix Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
officiis muneribusque suis fungantur

I, M.Hortensia Maior as a Lictrix of Nova Roma, hereby witness the
appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L. Julia Aquila as
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos Vestalis of Nova
Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their
offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana


May the gods favour Nova Roma!! Dii Novae Romae favent!!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Colin Brodd <magisterbrodd@...> wrote:
>
> I, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby
> witness the appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus, L.
> Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos
> Vestalis, Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae of Nova Roma. As a
> member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their offices and
> in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.
>
> Ego, Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus , lictor curiatus Novae Romae
> testificor M. Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam
> sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis, C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae, et
> Sibyllam Ambrosiam Fulviam sacerdotem Mithrae Novae Romae creari.
>
> Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana felicissime
> officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.
>
> --
> "Qua(e) patres difficillime
> adepti sunt nolite
> turpiter relinquere" -
> Monumentum Bradfordis, Tamaropoli, in civitate Massaciuseta
> (Bradford Monument, Plymouth, MA)
>
> Check out my books on Goodreads: <a href="
> http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus?utm_source=email_widget">
> http://www.goodreads.com/profile/Valerianus</a>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete

>The Hyakinthos was a summer celebration, but I haven't found out > exactly which month it occurred in.

Three days in July/late Hekatombaion (see Herodotus). Used to be a festival in in the 70's in Washington Square park NYC in conjunction with NYU - don't know if they still have it.

Valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Lucillae Merullae sal.
>
> Month Gregorian equivalent
> Hekatombaeon June-July
> Metageitnion July-Aug
> Boedromion Aug-Sept
> Puanepsion Sept-Oct
> Maimakteron Oct-Nov
> Poseideon Nov-Dec
> Gamelion Dec-Jan
> Anthesterion Jan-Feb
> Elaphebolion Feb-March
> Mounychion March-April
> Thargelion April-May
> Skirophorion May-June
>
> according to The Oxford Classical Dictionary (2003)
>
> The Hyakinthos was a summer celebration, but I haven't found out exactly which month it occurred in. If I do, I will let you know :)
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@> wrote:
> >
> > I was asked this on another list and wondered if anyone here had any ideas
> >
> > "Does anyone know much about the Spartan calendar, especially when (by our
> > modern standards) the month of Hyacinthius would have kicked off?"
> >
> > Thank you
> > Flavia Lucilla Merula
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Salvete omnes, Cives et Magistrates;

The statement, which I can offer in good conscience.

I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby
witness the appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur Publicus,
L. Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as
Sacerdos Vestalis of Nova Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I
wish them good fortune in their offices and in their work on behalf of
the Religio Romana.

Ego, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator, lictor curiatus Novae Romae
testificor M. Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam
sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis, et C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae
Novae Romae creari.

Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro Religione Romana
felicissime officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.

==========================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis et Lictor

Salvete Quirites!

I Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby
witness the appointment(s) of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus,
L. Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as
Sacerdos Vestalis and Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae of
Nova Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune
in their offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.

*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Consul Iterum
Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Petronius A. Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque s.p.d.,
>
>> > ATS: It¹s available on the tapes for the Assimil text, where it is the
>> last song (lesson 97). Those of us who have been through Sermo II or Sermo
>> Combined are familiar with this. Possibly the French original is available
>> elsewhere; I believe it is the anthem of Provence.
>
> Yes, it is the anthem of the Provence written by Frédéric Mistral. The lyrics
> are written and sung in Provinçal not in French.
>
> ATS2: Quid? Galli in Galliá Gallicé loqui nolunt?
>
> You can hear it here (with French subtitles):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Bi9YL1g74&feature=related
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Bi9YL1g74&feature=related>
>
> ATS2: Merci beaucoup! Voici les mots en français (selon l¹Assimil de
> Clément Desessard): 1) Levons notre verre à la Provence/ pour célébrer la
> Patrie. / Buvons tous, tour à tour, / le vin pur de notre vigne. / (refrain)
> Coupe sainte, pleine de feu, / vers dans les âmes, / verse l¹ardeur joyeuse /
> et les forces des hommes courageux! 2) D¹un peuple libre et ancien / le
> barbare souhaite la perte: / Si notre langue se taisait, / notre gloire
> tomberait. // (refrain) 3) Mais d¹un peuple qui renait / soyons les premiers
> graines! / Et de la cité latine /bâtissons les fondations. (refrain).
>
> The translation on the video whose link you provided seems to be a bit
> freer rendition of the Latin at least (I have no clue about Provençal). I
> also found the tune easier to understand on a related link, which also
> downloaded faster and did not have applause at both ends of the video. I will
> paste the link here, having copied it lest I make a mistake (given my talent
> for dealing with URLs, especially complex ones with no meaningful sense to
> them).
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPprybWGHrM&NR=1>
>
> This anthem seems tailor-made for Nova Roma, though we might skip the
> drinkin¹ in the first verse, and definitely have to make a slight change
> there. The chorus and second and third verses are lovely, and fine as is (the
> barbarian desires the destruction of a free and ancient people; if we keep
> silence, our glory will fade [fall], but let us be the first seeds of a people
> rising again, and lay the foundations of a Latin/Roman city).
>
> ATS2: Iterum gratias!
>
> Vale quam optime.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Pr. Kal. Feb. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>
> Et tu, et vos!
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:08 PM, luciaiuliaaquila
<dis_pensible@...>wrote:

> Salvete
>
> >The Hyakinthos was a summer celebration, but I haven't found out > exactly
> which month it occurred in.
>
> Three days in July/late Hekatombaion (see Herodotus). Used to be a festival
> in in the 70's in Washington Square park NYC in conjunction with NYU - don't
> know if they still have it.
>
>

Thank you both of you

Flavia Lucilla Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, as a Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby witness
the appointments of

M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus,

L. Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis,

C. Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos Vestalis,

Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae,

of Nova Roma. As a member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good
fortune in their offices and in their work on behalf of the Religio
Romana.



Ego, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, lictor curiatus Novae Romae testificor

M. Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum,

L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris Genetricis,

C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae,

Sibyllam Ambrosiam Fulviam sacerdotem Mithrae

Novae Romae creari. Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto ut pro
Religione Romana felicissime officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.


CN-EQVIT-MARINVS

Tribuna Plebis Maxima Valeria Messallina Quiritibus S.P.D. 
 
Citizens of Nova Roma,
 
Here is the Tribunician report of the Senate session of January 21 - 27, 2763. The votes have been tallied and the results are as follows:
 
Formal debate ended at sunset at 17.18 hours, Rome time (11:18 a.m. EST) on a.d. VI Kal. Feb. (January 27) 2763. Voting began immediately afterwards and ended at 16:30 hours, Rome time (10:30 a.m. EST) on a.d. VIII Kal. Feb. (January 25) 2763 and concluded at 16:30 hours, Rome time, (10:30 a.m. EST) on a.d. VI Kal. Feb. (January 27) 2763.
 
The following XXVI Senators cast their votes on time. They are referred to by their initials which are listed in alphabetical order (with the exception of the presiding magistrate who will be listed first):  
 
*PMA: P. Memmius Albucius – Presiding Magistrate
 
*ATS: A. Tullia Scholastica
*CEC: C. Equitius Cato
*CFD: C. Flavius Diocletianus
*CnEM: Cn. Equitius Marinus
*CnIC: Cn. Iulius Caesar
*CVP: C. Vipsanius Agrippa
*DIPI: Dec. Iunius Palladius Invictus
*EqIL: Equestria Iunia Laeca
*KFBM: K. Fabius Buteo Modianus
*KFBQ: K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
*LCSF: L. Cornelius Sulla Felix
*MCC: M. Curiatius Complutensis
*MHM: M. Hortensia Maior
*MIP: M. Iulius Perusianus
*MIS: M. Iulius Severus
*MLA: M. Lucretius Agricola
*MMPH: M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
*QSP: Q. Suetonius Paulinus
*TiGPTi.: Ti. Galerius Paulinus
*TIS: T. Iulius Sabinus



The following Senatores (V) voted by proxy:
*CCS: C. Curius Saturninus (Proxy vote delivered by K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus)
*FGA: Fl. Galerius Aurelianus (Proxy vote delivered by M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus)
*MMA M. Minucius Audens (Proxy vote delivered by K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus)
*PVSV: P. Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Proxy vote delivered by Dec. Iunius Palladius Invictus)
*QFM: Q. Fabius Maximus (Proxy vote delivered by Dec. Iunius Palladius Invictus)
 
 
The following Senatores (V) did not vote:
*ArnMA: Arn. Moravia Aurelia
*CMM: C. Marius Merullus
*EmCF: Em. Curia Finnica
*Fr. Apulus Caesar
*MAM: M. Arminius Maior
_________________________________________
 
 
"VTI ROGAS" indicates a vote in favor of an item,
"ANTIQVO" is a vote against,
"ABSTINEO" is an open abstention.
__________________________________________
 
 ITEM I – Current session of the Collegium Pontificum:  
Regards the information the Senate requires from the Pontifex Maximus on the Collegium Pontificum's current session's general agenda and, in particular, the two points written in its agenda concerning the possible declaration of impietas against Senatores G. Equitius Cato and L. Cornelius Sulla Felix, its factual and legal base and possible consequences.
Item I had no voting.
 
__________________________________________ 

ITEM II – Information on the budget procedure:  
 
The Consuls ask the Senate for proposals, requests and recommendations for this year's budget.
 
Item II had no voting.
 
 _____________________________________________
 
ITEM III – Information on the writing of by-laws for NR Inc. non-profit making corporation:
 
To create a document of by-laws in conformity with incorporations laws, which shall be separate from the constitution of NR.
 
Item III had no voting.
 
  _____________________________________________
 
ITEM IV – Discussion of the best date for the annual entry into office of the Tribunes:
 
Changes either the date of entry into office by the Tribunes of the Plebs or changes the constitution specific only to the date of entry into office by said Tribunes.
 
Item IV had no voting.
 
______________________________________________
 
 
ITEM V – Emergency Disaster Fund: confirmation and, if confirmed, application to Haïti current situation (information by Cur. Aer. And former coss. MCC and MIS + vote):
 
The Senatores had a choice between three specific proposals:
V.a – for confirmation of the Emergency Disaster Fund with improved formal rules;
V.b – for deletion of the Emergency Disaster Fund;
V.c – for adaptation of the Emergency Disaster Fund to reduced specific goals.
 
For V.a – 13
For V.b – 10
For V.c – 3
 
There was NO majority. The result on Item V is NO proposal was passed. The Emergency Disaster Fund stays as previous, i.e. as of April, 2762 SC.
 
NB: I had to include each Senator’s vote on the three different proposals. I hope this will not be too confusing to read. After each Senator’s vote, his or her comments, if any, follows.
 
*PMA: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Uti Rogas “Last year, this creation answered a special need, concerning an event that occurred in Italia, the land of our ancestors. This is why I did not vote against it, and also to support the deserving efforts of our consuls.
But as our Fund exists, being open to non NR citizen, so everybody in the world, I am afraid that we will be every time towards hard choices. This year, the EDF should work for Haïti, and I know that some of our colleagues are not eager to consider this possibility. Keeping such a Fund, knowing that we shall never be able to put a decent amount of money in it seems to me a waste of time and energy.
In addition and on a second level, I think that, as long as we are not ready to focus our intervention on things linked to romanitas, latinitas, etc. (this is the idea of the 3rd proposal of this item) and is not fully organized to face such a management, NR should put this generous idea in parenthesis and abrogate this Fund. Nothing will prevent us to re-create it when our non- profit making corporation will be organized enough to assess its policy in such a field.
So let us make simple and focus ourselves on our priorities and central missions.”


 
*ATS: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “This is unduly confusing as well, and would appear to be more trouble than it is worth.”
*CEC: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*CFD: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo
*CnEM: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “We need an Emergency Fund, and it needs to be unconstrained so that the consuls of each year may use it as they think best. Two years ago it was our only source of funds for much of the year because no budget had been passed. Without an Emergency Fund the consuls won't have the ability to pay the bills if the Senate can't or won't approve a budget. The issue of whether or not to provide funds for Humanitarian Emergencies should not even be tied up in this larger issue.”
*CnIC: V.a Antiquo/ V/b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo  “I voted against creating this, and I now vote to delete it for the same reasons. Our funds are relatively small and the income we have yearly doesn't allow us sufficient room to make this a fund that is likely to be replaced are the first meaningful donation. This came from money donated to Nova Roma to advance its mission. That mission does not include disaster relief work.” 
*CVP: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*DIPI: V/a Antiquo/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Uti Rogas  “Uti rogas, as long as it is clear this is a fund for Nova Roma emergencies. We are too small to have disaster relief funds for outside our
organization.”
*EqIL: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo
*KFBM: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo
*KFBQ: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “I vote to keep the fund. Not as a disaster fund for the exterior, but as a internal fund for Nova Roma itself, as I think it was planned all along. Maybe the name should be changed? I am a member of "Lions International" and as such I do charity work, but I never joined Nova Roma to do charity work. I am not saying “never”, but it would have to have more to do with Rome.. Maybe saving the Palatine Hill?”
*LCSF: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*MCC: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo “I vote to keep the fund for internal use.”
*MHM: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo
*MIP: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo
*MIS: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Uti Rogas
*MLA: V.aUti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “I vote to keep the fund. Not as a disaster fund for the exterior, but as a internal fund for Nova Roma itself.”
*MMPH: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “I vote to retain the Emergency Fund as is, for unexpected situations that incur greater expenses to Nova Roma than had been budgeted. It was not intended to be a fund to aid disaster relief efforts. This Item is so poorly written that
I do not know how to vote or what I am asked to vote on. But if it is to send more money to Haiti, then I vote no.”
*QSP: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo  “This MONEY came from money donated
 to Nova Roma for advancing its mission and this does not include disaster relief.”
*TiGPTi.: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*TIS: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo  “It is a difference between the `Emergency fund approved' in December 2008 and the `Emergency disaster fund' approved in April 2009. In this session in the way the item was described we deal with the `Emergency disasterfund' approved in April 2009. (Uti rogas for deletion.) Nova Roma has not the level to handle that whatever the good intentions are.”
 
The following Senatores (V) voted by proxy:
*CCS: V.a Uti Rogas/ V.b Antiquo/ V.c Antiquo “I vote to keep the fund for internal use.”
*FGA: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*MMA: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo  “I am not sure just what kind of disaster can confront Nova Roma that an emergency fund is needed. We have no structures or NR owned material that would be affected by any natural disaster, or is this fund a fund for disaster for an organization outside of NR? If that is the problem, I suspect that we should do away with the fund and place the finances in the general fund.”
*PVSV: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
*QFM: V.a Antiquo/ V.b Uti Rogas/ V.c Antiquo
__________________________________________
 
 
ITEM VI – SC de ratione senatus – modification - members of the Senate who may have a personal interest in a question submitted to discussion and vote (discussion + vote): 
 
A proposal that any member of the Senate who may have a personal interest in any question submitted for discussion and voting by the Senate, may not take part in such discussion and voting.
Uti Rogas - 3 
Antiquo - 14
Abstineo - 9
 
The result of the voting is Item VI FAILED.
 
*PMA: Uti Rogas  “It is for me one of the obvious rules that a college of people managing public interests must set, as do communities councils, other non-profit making corporation. I would have liked to have more time to support this rule or to give examples of situations that may be lived of such conflict of interests, that I have myself lived in other npmc boards and public institutions councils.
I am frankly convinced that what works well in these organizations will work with no difficulty for Nova Roma. This rule would be a strong signal of transparency and good government sent both to our citizenry and to the outside.
Not adopting it could be, on the contrary, analyzed as a will of our Senate to defend the interests of its members, even private ones, before the interests of our common good. Our Senate would have much to loose here, and I sincerely ask everyone to read again the proposal if necessary, and think twice before casting a vote. Honestas will be never reproached to you.” 
 
*ATS: Antiquo  “We need more precision, but presented in a straightforward manner so that this proposal is easy to understand.”
*CEC: Antiquo  “Again, this would simply be another club with which to beat those who disagreed with whomever might be in "power". Would we require every senator to submit a list of every single organization and website to which they belong? Would we create an internet police force to check up on people? I think it best that senators simply rescue themselves if they perceive a conflict of interest.”
*CFD: Uti Rogas
*CnEM: Antiquo  “The SC as written seems too vague. While I support in
principle the idea of placing reasonable limits on conflicts of interest, this doesn't satisfy the need.”
*CnIC: Antiquo  “There was inadequate information provided to support the need for this. In the absence of such evidence this seems like red tape for the sake of red tape. Prove the pressing need to me and I will consider voting for it.”
*CVP: Antiquo
*DIPI: Abstineo  “I see a general need for regulating when a conflict of interest might arise. I see people in municipal boards recuse themselves from voting all the time because of conflicts, though they will sometimes participate in any discussion. While I can see not letting a senator vote in such a case, they should not be forbidden from discussion. That would be giving too much power to the presiding magistrate. The need for this in our tiny organization is not apparent. When might such a conflict arise? I am not against this but not convinced either, thus I vote no.”
*EqIL: Antiquo
*KFBM: Antiquo
*KFBQ: Astineo  “I never got any other then a short explanation why we need this. On a theoretical level I agree that such a thing might be needed, but Ijust can't see it in Nova Roma. I am sure that my colleague does have serious experience that motivated him to present this item, so I would
recommend him to come back with it with a fuller explanation. I am fully prepared to vote for it if I know the arguments. Until then I will abstain out of trust in the experience of my
colleague.”
*LCSF: Antiquo
*MCC: Abstineo
*MHM: Abstineo
*MIP: Abstineo
*MIS: Uti Rogas
*MLA: Abstineo
*MMPH: Antiquo  “What? It is as though you stopped in mid thought. What about those who have a personal interest in a question?”
*QSP: Antiquo  “I agree that not enough information was provided to support the need for this.”
*TiGPTi.: Antiquo
*TIS: Abstineo  “It is my impression that the benefit of this item was not very well understood. In essence the proposal has merit and can avoid many future controversies and movements in the personal interest direction. However it isvery difficult to strictly determinate what it means personal interest and thatcan result in other never ending controversies.”
 
The following Senatores (V) voted by proxy:
*CCS: Abstineo  “A deeper explanation is needed.”
*FGA: Antiquo
*MMA: Antiquo  “Senator Gneus Iulius Caesar has a number of excellent questions that apply to this item. For instance, does this mean that because I am a re-enactor hat I cannot involve myself in Senate business? I am a member of several brotherhood organizations. What do they have to do with Nova Roma? Since I do not belong to a faction within NR does this mean that I must join one? I think that a great deal more thought has to go into this item before it can be brought to a vote.”
*PVSV: Abstineo
*QFM: Antiquo
__________________________________________
 
 
ITEM VII – Provinces – Territorial definition and delineation of NR’s European provinces (discussion + vote):  
 
Proposes changes to all of NR's European provinces.
NB: Consul Albucius has proposed to review Item VII again, with particular attention to Provinica Sarmatia.
Uti Rogas - 16 
Antiquo - 8
Abstineo – 2
 
The result of the voting is Item VII PASSED.
 
*PMA: Uti Rogas  “Warm thanks again to all concerned governors for their advices and reactivity.”
 
*ATS: Abstineo  “The document presented to me lacks the names of the affected provinces, and there apparently is an issue with Sarmatia/Russia and Königsberg, where (as it happens) one of my Russian-speaking students lives.”
*CEC: Antiquo  “If the amendment took into consideration Corvus' concerns, I would support this completely. As it is, I think it deserves a little more thought in light of his statement.”
*CFD: Uti Rogas
*CnEM: Uti Rogas  “Uti Rogas, with some concern for the situation in Sarmatia.”
*CnIC: Antiquo  “The Sarmatia issue needs to be addressed first. Again this is I dotting and T crossing and yes getting this all sorted out would be a good thing, but let us make sure we don't vote for something that has an existing issue outstanding. Nothing detrimental will happen if we don't vote for this, but if we do there seems to be inherent problems looming. There appears to be no option to separate off the Sarmatia issue in the agenda item so I vote against the presented package as a whole.”
*CVP: Antiquo  “The issues raised by M. Octavius Corvus must be addressed first.”
*DIPI: Uti Rogas
*EqIL: Uti Rogas
*KFBM: Uti Rogas
*KFBQ: Uti Rogas  “Uti rogas for the whole proposal, except for Provincia Sarmatia; that has to be revisited.”
*LCSF: Antiquo
*MCC: Uti Rogas
*MHM: Uti Rogas
*MIP: Uti Rogas
*MIS: Abstineo  “I believe that the Senate must consider the commentaries made by M. Octavius Corvus, and proceed accordingly.”
*MLA: Uti Rogas  “Attention must be paid to the matter of Sarmatia provincia.”
*MMPH: Uti Rogas “This is an important issue and I did not see enough time devoted to its
discussion. It should be tabled for further discussion, but I am glad to see this being considered. Maybe in trying to implement it, we in the Senate will know more on this as it develops.”
*QSP: Antiquo
*TiGPTi.: Antiquo
*TIS: Uti Rogas  “It seems that the item is not totally determinate (Sarmatia's case) but I take in consideration the good intentions of consul P. Memmius and the good relations among European governors when it comes to find solutions.”



The following Senatores (V) voted by proxy:
*CCS: Uti Rogas  “Uti rogas for the whole proposal, except for Provincia Sarmatia; that has to be revisited.”
*FGA: Antiquo
*MMA: Uti Rogas  “The idea at first glance seems all right to me.”
*PVSV: Uti Rogas
*QFM: Antiquo
__________________________________________
 
Tribunicii:
Maxima Valeria Messallina (reporting)
C. Curius Saturnius
C. Petronius Dexter
M. Octavius Corvus
C. Aquilius Rota
 
Many thanks to Consul Albucius for his invaluable help and to my fellow Tribunes for their support and encouragement.  
 
Valete bene in pace Deorum,

Maxima Valeria Messallina
Tribuna Plebis
____________________________________________
 
Below is a chart of the tallied votes that was created by Consul Albucius to help all of us better visualize the voting results. (I hope this chart shows up on the ML.)
 
 




 





Va

Vb

Vc

VI

VII


UR

13

11

2

3

16


ABS

0

0

0

9

2


ANT

13

15

24

14

8


expr.

26

26

26

26

26


n.c.

5

5

5

5

5


Tot. all

31

31

31

31

31


Result

F

F

F

F

P




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<--- On Sun, 1/31/10, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:

Below is a chart of the tallied votes that was created by Consul Albucius to help all of us better visualize the voting results. (I hope this chart shows up on the ML.) >>
 
I had a feeling it wasn't going to come out, but hopefully it will on the CPT list.
Sorry about that.
 
MVM 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae Fl. Lucillae Merulae quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> As I recall, the names of the months differed from one Greek city-state to
> another (confirmed by references), and the Athenian ones at least overlapped
> our months, beginning around mid-month. The Praeger Encyclopedia of the
> Ancient Greek Civilization states that the months were lunar in theory, but in
> practice alternated between 29 and 30 days, divided into three decades. The
> last of these used the countdown method familiar to us from the Roman calendar
> (x days before...). Since this system produced a year of 354 days, one was
> intercalated every few years (after the 3rd, 5th, and 8th year of a ten-year
> cycle, though perhaps the OCD disputes this). In Athens, the years were named
> after the eponymous archon (a bit redundant, that), and in Sparta, after the
> chief ephor. The Oxford Classical Dictionary adds much to this, and notes
> that the year began with the first new moon after the summer solstice.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:08 PM, luciaiuliaaquila
> <dis_pensible@... <mailto:dis_pensible%40hotmail.com> >wrote:
>
>> > Salvete
>> >
>>> > >The Hyakinthos was a summer celebration, but I haven't found out >
>>> exactly
>> > which month it occurred in.
>> >
>> > Three days in July/late Hekatombaion (see Herodotus). Used to be a festival
>> > in in the 70's in Washington Square park NYC in conjunction with NYU -
>> don't
>> > know if they still have it.
>> >
>> >
> Thank you both of you
>
> Flavia Lucilla Merula
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Aquila Liviae Plautae Hortensiae Maiori omnibusque S.P.D

Thank you so much mea amica Livia and mea amica Maior for your kind words and support.
Much thanks to all of you who gave me your support in my efforts on behalf of our Mother Venus.

Congratulations to mi amice, Agricola, our newest Augur!

Also many congratulations to Sacerdos Vestalis Gaia Aurelia Ibera and Sacerdos Mithrae Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia!

Congratulations are also in order for those accepted to the Camillus Program!

Vale optime in pace Deorum!

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
> I would like to congratulate the new sacerdotes.
> Specially my friend Julia Aquila, who I'm sure is already a very competent
> sacerdos for Venus Genetrix.
> I'm very glad to see a new augur in the person of Agricola. I'm sure he will
> perform successfully this ungrateful job (involving early rises and outdoor
> activity in all weathers).
> Thank you, Agricola, for doing this!
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

L. Iulia Aquila M. Moravio Piscino Horatiano Pontifex Maximus Novae Romae S.P.D

Maximas tibi gratiás ago!


Bene valé di Novae Romae favent

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...> wrote:
>
> M. Moravius Horatianus Pontifex Maximus: P. Memmio K. Fabio Consulibus, Senatoribus Patribus Mátribusque Conscriptís, viris clarissimis et castissimae mulieribus, Pontificibus, Maximae Valeriae Messallinae, Virgine Vestalis Maximae, Flaminibus, civibus, Quiritibus et omnibus: salutem plurimam dicit:
>
> QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS
>
> I am pleased to announce that the Collegium Pontificum, having met in session last week, has arrived at the following decisions.
>
> ITEM I: All Pontifices are retained.
>
> __________________
>
> ITEM II: M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus is retained as Pontifex Maximus.
>
> __________________
>
> ITEM III:
>
> 3.a Adlection of New Sacerdotes
>
> The following individuals have been accepted to sacerdotal offices by the Collegium Pontificum. They must now be inaugurated before the Comitia Curiata before taking office. Congratulations to each one of them.
>
> M. Lucretius Agricola is adlected Augur publicus.
>
> Camilla Julia Aquila is adlected Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis.
>
> Gaia Aurelia Ibera is adlected Sacerdos Vestalis under the training of Maxima Valeria Mesallina, Virgo Vestalis Maxima.
>
> Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia is adlected Sacerdos Mithrae.
>
>
> 3.b Acceptance to the Camillus Program
>
> The following individuals are accepted to the Camillus Program wherein they shall receive instruction from members of the Collegium Pontificum, in order to prepare them for future sacerdotal offices:
>
> Titus Cassius Longinus
> Lucius Coruncanius Cato
> Appius Galerius Aurelianus
> Titus Iulius Calvus
> Marcus Octavius Corvus
> Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
> Gaius Coceius Spinula
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM IV: Passed: Decretum de Maiestate
>
> The Collegium Pontificum hereby revokes the Decretum Pontificum passed on 25 Feb. AUC 2756 concerning the blasphemy clause of the Constitution VI.A.
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM V: Passed: Decretum de Libris Pontifici Novae Romae
>
> Pars I: The Leges Regia, fragmenta Libri Pontifici and the Commentarii on those laws, as have been collected and may yet be discovered, shall be recognized by the Collegium Pontificum as the basis of the traditional practice of the religio
> Romana
>
> Pars II: Future responsa of the Pontifices may refer to these ancient texts in support of their determinations, and thus, through the commentaries of our Pontifices, Libri Pontifici shall evolve for Nova Roma from the accepted and ancient traditions of the religio Romana.
>
> _______________
>
> ITEM VI.a: Passed: Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile
>
> The Decretum passed on pridie Nonas Sextilias MMDCCLVII (4 Aug 2004) amending a previous Decretum Pontificum, passed on ante diem VIII Kalendas Aprilis 2754 (25 March 2001) in regard to the official civil calender of Nova Roma is hereby amended.
>
> I. The Official Calendar of Nova Roma will be the Gregorian Calendar with the following modifications:
>
> A. Years will be reckoned from the founding of Rome (ab Urbe condita) rather than the common era.
> B. The addition of intercalary days will be determined by the Gregorian formula using the common era as a reference, but will be inserted between Ante Diem VII Kalendas Martias (Terminalia/23 February) and Ante Diem VI Kalendas Martias (Regifugium/24 February).
>
> II. The month names of the Julian calendar as revised by Augustus and the Gregorian calendar will be the names of months used for the official civil calendar in Nova Roma. The religious calendar shall retain the names of months used under the Julian calendrical reform.
>
> III. To fulfill the Vow of adding an additional dies nefastus to the official civil calendar, dies pristinus Kal. Ian. (31 December) was designated by the previous decretum pontificum as dies nefastus. This date shall remain dies nefastus and is now designated as feriae Civilia. Magistrates whose term of office is to conclude at the end of this day ought to perform private piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may have occurred during their year in office. Newly designated magistrates whose term of office shall begin on the following date, the Kalends of January, ought to also perform private piacula for their Lares, Penates, and to the Di superi for whose cultus they shall be responsible in the coming year. Public celebrations for Civilia shall be conducted by the pontifices to invite the the Gods to bless the transition of imperium and
> auspicium between former and new magistrates.
>
> IV. Also to fulfill the previous vow, the Pontifices shall continue to perform the annual end of year piacula for any offenses to the Gods that may have occurred during the previous year. These piacula shall be performed by the end of the religious year that concludes with Terminalia, ante diem VII Kalendas Martis (23 February).
>
> V. All official dates of the civil calendar in Nova Roma shalll be stated in Roman reckoning, by noting the number of days in Roman notation before the Kalends, Nones, and Ides of each month, and the year given in Roman notation ab Urbe condita along with the consular year. On official documents such notation will be followed by a restating of the date in modern notation inside parentheses.
>
> NOTE: Parts of this decretum may be revisited later this year when the official calendar is again reviewed for the following year.
>
> _________________
>
> VI.b: Passed Decretum Pontificum de Fastis AUC MMDCCLXIII
>
> The Calendar posted by Pontifex Cn. Cornelius to the Nova Roma website, as amended under the Decretum Pontificum de Fastis civile, is the official calendar of Nova Roma for AUC MMDCCLXIII P. Memmio K. Fabio Buteone coss.
>
>
> Di Deaeque immortales faciant, tam felix quam pia.
>
>
> In other matters, great concern was expressed over the manner that women have been met with insults and intimidation in Nova Roma. Especially distressing is that this has occurred to Vestales and to those who trained as Vestales, as well as other female sacerdotes and to senatrices. Such behavior has caused all of Nova Roma to lose valuable members of our community, including three senatrices and two women training as Vestales last year. Such behavior reflects poorly on all of Nova Roma and on all our Citizens. Most distressing is that some of the grossest insults towards women have come from members of the Senate and some members of the Collegium Pontificum itself. When asked to apologize publicly for comments they had made in public fora, one Senator took it as a personal challenge, while a Pontifex simply refused. As was expressed in our collegial discussions by Pontifex and Censor T. Sabinus, there is a limit to the patience of the Collegium Pontificum when it comes to those who show disrepect towards the Religio Romana and who show disrespect towards those sacerdotes who practice the sacra publica at their own time and expense for the benefit of all Nova Roma Citizens. For the time being a decision on these matters await further discussion while the Collegium Pontificum considers a proper response to such misconduct.
>
> As Pontifex Maximus I call upon our Censores, Consules and Praetores to take a firm stand against the verbal abuse and intimidation of women, as such misbehavior still degrades our community in Nova Roma and severely limits Nova Roma's ability to grow and develop. Women provide a vital role in the cultus Deorum and we in turn need to provide them with respect and consideration in a welcoming community that appreciates their contributions.
>
>
> Di Deaeque vos bene ament. Ite numinibus votisque secundetis.
>
> ab manu M. Moravii a. d. IV Kal. Feb. AUC MMDCCLXIII in anno P. Memmio K. Fabio Buteone coss.
>

I, T. Arminius Genialis, Lictor of Nova Roma, hereby witness the
appointments of M. Lucretius Agricola as Augur publicus of Nova Roma, L.
Julia Aquila as Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera as Sacerdos
Vestalis, and Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia as Sacerdos Mithrae in Nova Roma. As a
member of the Comitia Curiata I wish them good fortune in their offices and
in their work on behalf of the Religio Romana.

Ego, T. Arminius Genialis, lictor curiatus Novae Romae testificor M.
Lucretium Agricolam Augurem Publicum, L. Iuliam Aquilam sacerdotem Veneris
Genetricis, C. Aureliam Iberam sacerdotem Vestae, Sibyllam Ambrosiam Fulviam
sacerdotem Mithrae Novae Romae creari. Lictor Comitiorum Curiatorum eis opto
ut pro Religione Romana felicissime officiis muneribusque suis fungantur.

Eu, T. Arminius Genialis, Lictor de Nova Roma, testemunho a nomeação de M.
Lucretius Agricola como augur público de Nova Roma, L. Julia Aquila como
Sacerdos Vereis Genetricis, Gaia Aurelia Ibera como Sacerdos Vestalis e
Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia como Sacerdos Mithrae de Nova Roma. Como membro da
Comitia Curiata, desejo-lhes boa sorte em seu serviço e no seu trabalho em
nome da Religião Romana.

Titus Arminius Genialis
Lictor


Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.406 / Virus Database: 270.14.49/2480 - Release Date: 11/4/2009
7:37 AM

L. Julia Aquila A. Tulliae Scholasticae Fl. Lucillae Merulae quiritibusque S.P.D.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
> > As I recall, the names of the months differed from one Greek city-state to
> > another (confirmed by references), and the Athenian ones at least overlapped
> > our months, beginning around mid-month. The Praeger Encyclopedia of the
> > Ancient Greek Civilization states that the months were lunar in theory, but in
> > practice alternated between 29 and 30 days, divided into three decades. The
> > last of these used the countdown method familiar to us from the Roman calendar
> > (x days before...). Since this system produced a year of 354 days, one was
> > intercalated every few years (after the 3rd, 5th, and 8th year of a ten-year
> > cycle, though perhaps the OCD disputes this). In Athens, the years were named
> > after the eponymous archon (a bit redundant, that), and in Sparta, after the
> > chief ephor. The Oxford Classical Dictionary adds much to this, and notes
> > that the year began with the first new moon after the summer solstice.

I also seem to remember that the Hyakinthos was held every five years, this could be particular to a city-state and not in every city -state. The festival held by the classics dept at NYU was held the weekend after the 4th, but this was done for convenience sake.
As always thank you Magistra mea.

Merula, you are so very welcome, my pleasure! It is a very interesting story with many different versions - including the aspect of Apollo.

Vale optime,

Julia


> >> >
> >> > Three days in July/late Hekatombaion (see Herodotus). Used to be a festival
> >> > in in the 70's in Washington Square park NYC in conjunction with NYU -
> >> don't
> >> > know if they still have it.

>

Maior quiritibus spd;
many talk on this list, incessantly;-)

But our Julia Aquila has both vision and activity. This is the reality of Nova Roma! May all our religious officials be like her. Our cives as pious as she!
di nos favent
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Iulia Aquila Liviae Plautae Hortensiae Maiori omnibusque S.P.D
>
> Thank you so much mea amica Livia and mea amica Maior for your kind words and support.
> Much thanks to all of you who gave me your support in my efforts on behalf of our Mother Venus.
>
> Congratulations to mi amice, Agricola, our newest Augur!
>
> Also many congratulations to Sacerdos Vestalis Gaia Aurelia Ibera and Sacerdos Mithrae Sibylla Ambrosia Fulvia!
>
> Congratulations are also in order for those accepted to the Camillus Program!
>
> Vale optime in pace Deorum!
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> > I would like to congratulate the new sacerdotes.
> > Specially my friend Julia Aquila, who I'm sure is already a very competent
> > sacerdos for Venus Genetrix.
> > I'm very glad to see a new augur in the person of Agricola. I'm sure he will
> > perform successfully this ungrateful job (involving early rises and outdoor
> > activity in all weathers).
> > Thank you, Agricola, for doing this!
> >
> > Optime valete,
> > Livia
> >
>