Agricola Omnibus sal.

A very interesting read on the phallus (to use a proper academic term) as apotropaic image is "Naked Power: The Phallus as an Apotropaic Symbol in the Images and Texts of Roman Italy" available here: http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=uhf_2006

This well-illustrated and well-written paper is an antidote to such Victorian preconceptions as may be held and is a great way to begin to reclaim an aspect of Roman culture that very many even today misunderstand.

optime valete in cura deorum

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> Dexter Sullae sal.
>
> > As one of the owners of the BackAlley and a fellow academic, we who are subscribed on the back alley do not prefer to sanitize the actual ancients like Ovid who wrote his book on how to seduce married women...or the residents of ancient Pompeii who had artistic cocks posted literally everywhere.
>
> Voilà donc la preuve de votre complète ignorance. Vous avez employé un mot argotique pour expliquer ce que vous ne comprenez pas. Pour les Romains le Phallus ou Fascinum (d'où vient le mot fascination) était le signe de la Félicité et de la Prospérité. Ce n'était pas de l'art cochon.
>
> There is the proof of your complete ignorance. You say a slang word of the penis to explain something you do not understand. For Romans the Phallus or Fascinum (from which comes the word fascination) was the sign of the felicity and the prosperity. It was not artistick X.
>
> Ovid did not write poems on how seduce married women. He wrote himself about his Ars amandi:
>
> Usus opus movet hoc: vati parete perito
> Vera canam; coeptis, mater Amoris, ades.
> Este procul vittae tenues, insigne pudoris,
> Quaeque tegis medios instita longa pedes:
> Nos Venerem tutam concessaque furta canemus
> Inque meo nullum carmine crimen erit.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Senator Maior.

I have not yet received the book of which you speak. The last few
days I have been sick with a lingering cold and haven't been doing
much at all. Where would this celebration be and when. How does it
involve my model building?

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:52 PM, rory12001 wrote:

> Salve Senator Audens;
> are you enjoying the Turcan book on Roman religion? This summer we
> are celebrating the Ludi Apollinares, games to Apollo & it would be
> great if you would join in as you are a fine model maker.
> optime vale
> Maior
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Where did all this come from? All I said was that I did not care to
be confronted with the Latin language. I have no problems with women
moving into the realm of men as long as thry don't use their
femininity to dirupt the status quo. Woman ususally are the weaker
sex by stature and muscle, and not only that but they have a different
view of the world around them. There isn't anything wrong with that,
until you decide that the man's view is not necessary. I am convinced
that both views are necessary Women do very well in my world as far
as I know. My wife is a very talented person who maintains her own
home business. I am sure that their are womn who can fly a plane just
as well and maybe better than a man, That's fine with me as my
interest in aviation is limited to getting from one place to another
faster that ground /sea travel.

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens
On Feb 13, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Kirsteen Wright wrote:they

>
> >
> > In the 1930's Ameilia Earhart was titled an "Aviatrix" in the US
> > English-speaking newspapers as a matter of respect for her
> accomplishments
> > both as a pilot and as a woman.
>
> This was the 1930s. Another, feminist, view of looking at this is
> that she
> was referred to as an aviatrix to distinguish her from the 'real'
> aviators,
> i.e. men. From the 70s on women in Britain fought to drop these
> artificial

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maxima Valeria Messallina omnibus S.P.D.
 
"At Lupercalia, the Romans gathered at a sacred cave called the Lupercal at the foot of the Palatine Hill, where Romulus and Remus had been suckled by the She-wolf. There, an offering of the last of the Mola Salsa was made by the Vestals."
 

I had no attendees this time; it was just Romulus and me. (No, not that Romulus! Haha I have a Pasofino named Romulus). I put my horse in his trailer and drove to Montaña de Oro State Park very early this morning. There are equestrian trails and I saddled up my gelding and off we went. After riding for three hours, I came to a small open grassy place just off the trail. Standing in the middle of it, I was surrounded by rising slopes in front of me and to my left and trees to my right with the trail behind me. It seemed like the perfect place for a ritual. It was a sunny day, a fair 72 F (22 C).While there was no cave, it was serene and pristine. 
 
I had brought all the ritual items I had intended to use and my Vestal attire just in case I felt I could change into it. There had not been a soul anywhere in sight all morning long on the trail, so I changed into my Vestal clothes behind a large tree. (Luckily, the whole morning I never saw anyone. Not until I was almost back to where I had parked did I finally see other riders on the trail.)
 
After creating sacred space, I did a purification rite with salt and water as I prayed for the purification of all Nova Romans, their Loved Ones and their Beloved Pets. Then I offered the last of the Mola Salsa that I had, crushing it in my hands and then sprinkling it on the ground. Since Lupercalia also involved fertility rites, I then prayed for any Nova Romans who are trying to start families or want to add to the children they already have. I also asked for continued growth in Nova Roma, that we may flourish as a community in 2010. A libation of goat's milk was offered which I poured into the ground in a circle around where I had sprinkled the Mola Salsa. 
 
As I was finishing the ritual, several sparrows flew down and came within inches of where I was standing. I quickly put away my ritual items as the sparrows began to eat the offering of Mola Salsa. After I had changed my clothes, I noticed that two ravens had joined the sparrows. That was a surprising sight to see the two large birds eating side by side with the smaller ones. Usually, they chase the other birds away. As Romulus and I left, they were all feasting happily together. 
 
It was very kind of Vesta to have led me to such a lovely place to do my ritual and in complete privacy, too. It was a blessing and I looked upon it as a sign of Her favor to us, for which I was, and am, very grateful. 
 
Valete bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
Virgo Maxima
 

"Nihil apud Romanos Templo Vestae sanctius habetur."
"Among the Romans nothing is held more holy than the Temple of Vesta."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
Cato Maiori Iuliae Aquilaesque SPD

Iulia Aquila, do you approve of the praetor's calling me "senatrix" or will you chide her as well?>>
 
 
I thought that was a joke? Maior getting you back for not wanting to call her a Praetrix.  


<<Maior, "praetrix" is not an actual Roman official's title.>>
 
 
Hmm, that could be because they had no female praetors in ancient Rome, but we do because this is "Nova" Roma.
 
 

<<The Constitution says "praetor", and so say I.>>
 
Ok, someone put it in there so we can end this, please.
Thank you.
 
MVM




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Amice!

I am glad to see You back! Now I am planning an International Rally in
June in Rome and hope to see You there. One of the aims is to meet and
by doing so try to get around the "heat" that always is created on the
net, Hope to see You there!

******

16 feb 2010 kl. 00.46 skrev gaiuspopilliuslaenas:

Salvete,

Thanks to everyone who has said kind words.

I have asked the Censores to reinstate me. There is a 90 day waiting
period that has been running for a couple of weeks now.

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Cn. Lentulus C. Laenati viro consulari censorio sal.
>
>
> Welcome back! :) You were missed by many, and by me, too!
>
> I can only hope there will be no new reason to abandon us... sad
> Nova Romans... :) Although the reason because of what you left Nova
> Roma is still here as a problem -- perhaps now being milder than
> last year.
>
> Ave!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Consul Iterum
Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae

Ex Officio Consulis Caesonis Fabii Buteonis Quintiliani

Edictum Consulare CFBQ III de candidati Comitia Populi Tributa CFBQ

(The THIRD Consular edict CFBQ on candidates in Comitia Populi Tributa
CFBQ).


I hereby waive the requirement to annonounce candidacy in these
elections to me on my private mail, as in the following:

All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand
for office directly by sending a message to:
christer dot edling at telia dot com
in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the word
"candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me your
full Nova Roman name and the office for which you will campaign.

Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be
accepted. You must write to me directly.

According to this edict I accept the candidacy of M. Moravius Piscinus
as Diribitor announced on the Main list.

I do this as there are too few candidates and to at least get a full
crew of Diribitores and I hereby accept the candidacy of M. Moravius
Piscinus for Diribitor.

PLEASE OBSERVE that exceptions like this one, should not be a rule,
but the Res Publica need to get a full crew so future elections may go
on if some of the current Diribitores will have problems in executing
their duties.

Sadly enough we still will need two more Quaestores after these
elections, so new elections will have to be held.

*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Consul Iterum
Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Pontifex Maximus et Magister Collegium Augurum K. Fabio Buteone Quintiliano Consuli s. p. d.


Having drawn lots in the prescribed manner, the Gods have chosen tribus Papiria (XVIII) to serve as Presidium Tribus for the elections to be held in the Comitia Populi Tributa. Selection of tribus Papiria is a good omen for the elections to proceed.

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Bene omnibus nobis

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas Martias; haec dies endotercisus est: dies Parentales

Felices Natalis, care amice Luci Salix Cicero! Speak no ill words today, good men and women, as we honor our friend on this his birthday. Burn frankincense and fragrant herbs as come from distant lands. His own Genius descends to receive his honors, a holy wreath to crown his soft curls. Pure nard distilled for his temples and, sated on wine and honey cakes, he nods his assent. And for you Amice, may the Gods grant you whatever you wish for this day.

For one's birthday, a Roman would dress as though for a festival, crowned with a wreath, and bring gifts to his genius, or to her juno, at the family lararium. After all, one's genius derives both from Jupiter and your Lares, and a woman's juno comes from Juno and her family's Lares. Incense, wine, and cakes drizzled with honey were offered, as well as a wreath of flowers. And in the lararium a little stone would be placed, accumulating stones for each year of life. Family and friends might also worship the genius or juno, at the lararium, providing similar gifts as well as tokens of well-wishes. Perhaps a coin to wish a friend prosperity in the year to come. The Lares would then be invited to the feast then held in honor of the person whose birthday it was. Merriment following upon solemnity.


ENDTERCISSUS

Today is one of the few days, only eight throughout the year, that is noted as being "cut into three parts," Endotercisus. The morning, lasting from midnight to sunrise, and the evening, lasting from sunset to midnight, were regarded as dies nefastus. Generally these would be the times when rites for the dead would take place, but such rites are discouraged from being carried out on this date. The middle third of the day, from sunrise to sunset, is regarded as dies fastus. Morning sacrifice was to be offered just after sunrise, but the stretching of the viscera over the altar fires did not take place until evening just before sunset. And all undertakings made during this period were thought to be blessed.


AUC 536 / 217 BCE: Sacred Spring is vowed.

"After these resolutions had been passed in the senate the praetor consulted the pontifical college as to the proper means of giving effect to them, and L. Cornelius Lentulus, the Pontifex Maximus, decided that the very first step to take was to refer to the people the question of a 'Sacred Spring,' as this particular form of vow could not be undertaken without the order of the people. The form of procedure was as follows: 'Is it,' the praetor asked the Assembly, 'your will and pleasure that all be done and performed in manner following? That is to say, if the commonwealth of the Romans and the Quirites be preserved, as I pray it may be, safe and sound through these present wars-to wit, the war between Rome and Carthage and the wars with the Gauls now dwelling on the hither side of the Alps-then shall the Romans and Quirites present as an offering whatever the spring shall produce from their flocks and herds, whether it be from swine or sheep or goats or cattle, and all that is not already devoted to any other deity shall be consecrated to Jupiter from such time as the senate and people shall order. Whosoever shall make an offering let him do it at whatsoever time and in whatsoever manner he will, and howsoever he offers it, it shall be accounted to be duly offered. If the animal which should have been sacrificed die, it shall be as though unconsecrated, there shall be no sin. If any man shall hurt or slay a consecrated thing unwittingly he shall not be held guilty. If a man shall have stolen any such animal, the people shall not bear the guilt, nor he from whom it was stolen. If a man offer his sacrifice unwittingly on a forbidden day, it shall be accounted to be duly offered. Whether he do so by night or day, whether he be slave or freeman, it shall be accounted to be duly offered. If any sacrifice be offered before the senate and people have ordered that it shall be done, the people shall be free and absolved from all guilt therefrom.' To the same end the Great Games were vowed at a cost of 333,333 1/3 ases, and in addition 300 oxen to Jupiter, and white oxen and the other customary victims to a number of deities. When the vows had been duly pronounced a litany of intercession was ordered, and not only the population of the City but the people from the country districts, whose private interests were being affected by the public distress, went in procession with their wives and children." ~ Titus Livius, AUC 22.10

AUC 558 / 195 BCE: Sacred Spring performed twenty-two years later

"In the previous year a Sacred Spring had been observed, and the Pontifex Maximus P. Licinius reported to the pontifical college that its observance had not been properly carried out. The college authorized him to bring the matter to the notice of the Senate, and they decided that there should be an entirely fresh observance under the direction of the pontiffs. The Great Games, which had been vowed at the same time, were also ordered to be celebrated, and the usual outlay incurred upon them. The victims to be offered included all the cattle born between 1st March and 1st May during the consulship of P. Cornelius and Tiberius Sempronius. Â…The Sacred Spring and the Games, vowed by Servius Sulpicius Galba, were duly carried out." ~ Titus Livius, AUC 34.44


Today's thought comes from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 29:

"To speak frankly as I study nature I would prefer to speak in oracles that which is of advantage to all men even though it be understood by none, rather than to conform to popular opinion and thus gain the constant praise that comes from the many."

Ex Officio Consulis Caesonis Fabii Buteonis Quintiliani

The Fourth Consular edict CFBQ on election in Comitia Populi Tributa.


Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus Consul omnes civibus Novae Romae S.P.D.

I have received the Auguria for the next elections from Magister
Collegium Augurii M. Moravius Piscinus with the result of "Gods seem
indifferent to the details, still they have indicated that the
elections should proceed".

Therefore the Contio will begin next 18th February at 00.00 hour (time
of Roma) until 21st Februay at 24.00 hour (time of Roma) to be 4 full
days.

Voting will begin 22th February at 00.00 hour (time of Roma) until
26th February at 24.00 hour (time of Roma) for five full days.

The Presidium Tribus is: Papiria (XVIII). The election of tribus
Papiria is a good omen for the elections to proceed.

Candidates are:

ROGATORES, ONE POSITION
Quintus Servilius Priscus
Citizen ID #: (2369), Citizenship - 2001-05-26
Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus
Citizen ID #: (4031), Citizenship - 2002-08-01


QUAESTORES, FOUR POSITIONS
Marcus Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
Citizen ID #: (3743), Citizenship - 2002-04-06
Titus Annaeus Regulus
Citizen ID #: (11996), Citizenship - 2008-06-25


DIRIBITOR, ONE POSITION
M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
Citizen ID #: (432), Citizenship - 2000-06-10


Given this 16th of February, in the year of the Consulship of P.
Memmius Albucius and the Second Consulship of K.Fabius Buteo
Quintilianus, 2763 AUC.

*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Consul Iterum
Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ex Officio Consulis Caesonis Fabii Buteonis Quintiliani

Edictum Consulare CFBQ V de nominatione in Cohorte Consulari CFBQ

(The Fifth Consular edict CFBQ on the appointment of scribe in the
Cohors Consularis CFBQ).


My my Chief Latinist Cn. Cornelius Lentulus and I will need support in
translating from English to Latin so I have decided to appoint an
Assisting Latinist to assist my Chief Latinist Cn.Cornelius Lentulus.

Latinista Primus meus Cn. Cornelius Lentulus et ego in verbis ex
Anglico in Latinum transferendis adiumento egemus, itaque decrevi ut
Latinistam Adiutorem qui Latinistam Primum Cn. Cornelium Lentulum
adiuvet creem.

I. C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, is hereby appointed Accensus and
Assisting Latinist to support Accensus and Chief Latinist Gnaeus
Cornelius Lentulus in his duties of translations. C. Tullius
Valerianus Germanicus will work under the direction of Gnaeus
Cornelius Lentulus and under the administration of Consul Caeso Fabius
Buteo Quintilianus.

I. Ex hoc C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Accensus et Latinista
Adiutor creatur qui Accensum et Latinistam Primum Cn. Cornelium
Lentulum in officiis translationum adiuvet. C. Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus a Cn. Cornelio Lentulo dirigetur et sub regimine Consulis
K. Fabii Buteonis Modiani laborabit.

II. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

II. Hoc Edictum statim valet.


Given this 16th of January, in the year of the Consulship of P.
Memmius Albucius and the Second Consulship of K.Fabius Buteo
Quintilianus, 2763 AUC.


Datum a.d. XIV Kal. Mar. ‡ P. Memmio K. Buteone (II) coss.,
MMDCCLXIII AUC.

*****************



*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Consul Iterum
Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
Civis Romanus sum
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae

Salvete latinistae primae decuriae!

Mihi licet ut vos consecutionem temporum doceam:

> Latinista Primus meus Cn. Cornelius Lentulus et ego in verbis ex
> Anglico in Latinum transferendis adiumento egemus, itaque decrevi ut
> Latinistam Adiutorem qui Latinistam Primum Cn. Cornelium Lentulum
> adiuvet creem.

Oportebat enim scribere:
"decrevi ut ... crearem qui... adjuvaret".

Cras vos constructionem ad sensum docebo. ;o)

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XIV Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Livia Agricolae sal.
Thanks a lot for the link! I read the article and saved it for future
reference. Specially appendix B seems very useful.

Optime vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "marcus.lucretius" <marcus.lucretius@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:06 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin behaviour.


Agricola Omnibus sal.

A very interesting read on the phallus (to use a proper academic term) as
apotropaic image is "Naked Power: The Phallus as an Apotropaic Symbol in the
Images and Texts of Roman Italy" available here:
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=uhf_2006

This well-illustrated and well-written paper is an antidote to such
Victorian preconceptions as may be held and is a great way to begin to
reclaim an aspect of Roman culture that very many even today misunderstand.

optime valete in cura deorum





--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> Dexter Sullae sal.
>
> > As one of the owners of the BackAlley and a fellow academic, we who are
> > subscribed on the back alley do not prefer to sanitize the actual
> > ancients like Ovid who wrote his book on how to seduce married
> > women...or the residents of ancient Pompeii who had artistic cocks
> > posted literally everywhere.
>
> Voilà donc la preuve de votre complète ignorance. Vous avez employé un mot
> argotique pour expliquer ce que vous ne comprenez pas. Pour les Romains le
> Phallus ou Fascinum (d'où vient le mot fascination) était le signe de la
> Félicité et de la Prospérité. Ce n'était pas de l'art cochon.
>
> There is the proof of your complete ignorance. You say a slang word of the
> penis to explain something you do not understand. For Romans the Phallus
> or Fascinum (from which comes the word fascination) was the sign of the
> felicity and the prosperity. It was not artistick X.
>
> Ovid did not write poems on how seduce married women. He wrote himself
> about his Ars amandi:
>
> Usus opus movet hoc: vati parete perito
> Vera canam; coeptis, mater Amoris, ades.
> Este procul vittae tenues, insigne pudoris,
> Quaeque tegis medios instita longa pedes:
> Nos Venerem tutam concessaque furta canemus
> Inque meo nullum carmine crimen erit.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Maior Audenti spd;
I am so sorry you have been ill, I just had a nasty migraine so I sympathize.
The celebration is the games to Apollo, the Ludi Apollinares which will be July 9-13. Nice and far away for projects
here is the web page
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/MMDCCLXIII/Ludi_Apollinares

All the arts are involved; music, writing, plastic so being a model builder would be a wonderful entry to celebrate Apollo.
optime vale
Maior

> Senator Maior.
>
> I have not yet received the book of which you speak. The last few
> days I have been sick with a lingering cold and haven't been doing
> much at all. Where would this celebration be and when. How does it
> involve my model building?
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Audens
> On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:52 PM, rory12001 wrote:
>
> > Salve Senator Audens;
> > are you enjoying the Turcan book on Roman religion? This summer we
> > are celebrating the Ludi Apollinares, games to Apollo & it would be
> > great if you would join in as you are a fine model maker.
> > optime vale
> > Maior
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete omnes,

Recently someone posted a link here to all kinds of vidoes, cartoon, etc. regarding Roma.

I cannot seem to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas

L. Livia Plauta omnibus sal.

These days I'm in Slovenia for an extended cross-country skiing holiday and
on the weekend I've done a bit of travelling.
I was at the village of Cerknica, which is famous for its carnival (not up
to its fame), and it turned out than in autumn they also have a dormouse
festival.
Apparently in Slovenia dormouse is raised and eaten, just like in ancient
Rome. It must not be that common, though, because I couldn't find it on the
menu of the restaurants in this area, but I will make sure to go to the
dormouse festival in Cerknica.

Slovenia is very conservative in other matters as well, not only is
Slovenian the only indoeuropan language that preserved grammatical dual
number (it died out in ancient Greek sometime after Homer), but they also
commonly use yellow carrots, the original variety that was used for
centuries since Roman times, and went out of fashion elsewhere after the
Dutch created the orange variety in the 18th century.

In the Ljubljana market I saw heaps of turnips (very hard to come by in
continental Europe) and yellow carrots. Before I go back to Budapest I will
certainly buy a few kilos, in order to make some Roman meals in the next
months.

Wherever our NR colony will be, Slovenia seems the easiest place to get
Roman food provisions, from carrots to dormouse meat.

Optime valete,
Livia

Salvete;
here is the link to Livia's reproductions of Roman phallic amulets to wear
http://www.facebook.com/livia.cases?ref=nf#!/album.php?page=2&aid=128771&id=828009843

She sells them & I asked her if she'd make me one for Juno Caelestis [Tanit] of Carthage.
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Livia Agricolae sal.
> Thanks a lot for the link! I read the article and saved it for future
> reference. Specially appendix B seems very useful.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marcus.lucretius" <marcus.lucretius@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:06 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin behaviour.
>
>
> Agricola Omnibus sal.
>
> A very interesting read on the phallus (to use a proper academic term) as
> apotropaic image is "Naked Power: The Phallus as an Apotropaic Symbol in the
> Images and Texts of Roman Italy" available here:
> http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=uhf_2006
>
> This well-illustrated and well-written paper is an antidote to such
> Victorian preconceptions as may be held and is a great way to begin to
> reclaim an aspect of Roman culture that very many even today misunderstand.
>
> optime valete in cura deorum
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> > Dexter Sullae sal.
> >
> > > As one of the owners of the BackAlley and a fellow academic, we who are
> > > subscribed on the back alley do not prefer to sanitize the actual
> > > ancients like Ovid who wrote his book on how to seduce married
> > > women...or the residents of ancient Pompeii who had artistic cocks
> > > posted literally everywhere.
> >
> > Voilà donc la preuve de votre complète ignorance. Vous avez employé un mot
> > argotique pour expliquer ce que vous ne comprenez pas. Pour les Romains le
> > Phallus ou Fascinum (d'où vient le mot fascination) était le signe de la
> > Félicité et de la Prospérité. Ce n'était pas de l'art cochon.
> >
> > There is the proof of your complete ignorance. You say a slang word of the
> > penis to explain something you do not understand. For Romans the Phallus
> > or Fascinum (from which comes the word fascination) was the sign of the
> > felicity and the prosperity. It was not artistick X.
> >
> > Ovid did not write poems on how seduce married women. He wrote himself
> > about his Ars amandi:
> >
> > Usus opus movet hoc: vati parete perito
> > Vera canam; coeptis, mater Amoris, ades.
> > Este procul vittae tenues, insigne pudoris,
> > Quaeque tegis medios instita longa pedes:
> > Nos Venerem tutam concessaque furta canemus
> > Inque meo nullum carmine crimen erit.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>

Livia Petronio sal.

Plurimas gratias tibi ago!

I have to confess I only understood a third of this, but it's beautiful, and
I will save it for future reference.

Optime vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] To those who celebrate love today :o)


C. Petronius omnibus Forensibus s.p.d.,


PERVIGILIVM VENERIS


Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Ver nouum, uer iam canorum, uere natus orbis natus est,
Vere concordant amores, uere nubunt alites,
Et nemus comam resoluit de maritis imbribus.
Cras amorum copulatrix inter umbras arborum
Inplicat casa uirentes de flagello myrteo:
Cras Dione iura dicit fulta sublimi throno.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Tunc cruore de superno spumeo pontus globo
Cæruleas inter cateruas, inter et bipedes equos
Fecit undantem Dionem de maritis imbribus.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Ipsa gemmis purpurantem pingit annum floridis,
Ipsa surgentes papillas de Fauoni spiritu
Urget in toros tepentes, ipsa roris lucidi,
Noctis aura quem relinquit, spargit umentis aquas.
En micant lacrimæ trementes de caduco pondere:
Gutta præceps orbe paruo sustinet casus suos.
En pudorem florulentæ prodiderunt purpuræ:
Umor ille, quem serenis astra rorant noctibus,
Mane uirgineas papillas soluit umenti peplo.
Ipsa iussit mane ut udæ uirgines nubant rosæ:
Facta Cypridis de cruore deque flabris deque Solis purpuris
Cras ruborem, qui latebat ueste tectus ignea,
Unico marita uoto non pudebit soluere.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Ipsa Nymphas diua luco iussit ire myrteo:
It puer comes puellis: nec tamen credi potest
Esse amorem feriatum, si sagittas uexerit.
Ite, Nymphæ, posuit arma, feriatus est Amor:
Iussus est inermis ire, nudus ire iussus est,
Neu quid arcu, neu sagitta, neu quid igne læderet.
Sed tamen, Nymphæ, cauete, quod Cupido pulcher est:
Totus est in armis idem quando nudus est Amor.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Conpari Venus pudore mittit ad te uirgines.
Una res est quam rogamus: cede, uirgo Delia,
Ut nemus sit incruentum de ferinis stragibus.
Ipsa uellet te rogare, si pudicam flecteret,
Ipsa uellet ut uenires, si deceret uirginem.
Iam tribus choros uideres feriantis noctibus
Congreges inter cateruas ire per saltus tuos,
Floreas inter coronas, myrteas inter casas.
Nec Ceres, nec Bacchus absunt, nec poetarum deus.
Detinenter tota nox est peruiclanda canticis:
Regnet in siluis Dione: tu recede, Delia.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Iussit Hyblæis tribunal stare diua floribus;
Præses ipsa iura dicet, adsidebunt Gratiæ.
Hybla, totus funde flores, quidquid annus adtulit;
Hybla, florum sume uestem, quantus Ætnæ campus est.
Ruris hic erunt puellæ uel puellæ fontium,
Qæque siluas, quæque lucos, quæque montes incolunt.
Iussit omnes adsidere pueri mater alitis,
Iussit et nudo puellas nil Amori credere.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Et recentibus uirentes ducat umbras floribus.
Cras erit quom primus primus Æther copulauit nuptias,
Ut pater totis crearet uernis annum nubibus:
In sinum maritus imber fluxit almæ coniugis,
Unde fetus mixtus omnis omnis aleret magno corpore.
Ipsa uenas atque mente permeanti spiritu
Intus occultis gubernat procreatrix uiribus,
Perque coelum perque terras perque pontum subditum
Peruium sui tenorem seminali tramite
Inbuit iusstque mundum nosse nascendi uias.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Ipsa Troianos nepotes in Latinos transtulit:
Ipsa Laurentem puellam coniugem nato dedit,
Moxque Marti de sacello dat pudicam uirginem:
Romuleas ipsa fecit cum Sabinis nuptias
Unde Ramnes et Quirites proque prole posterum
Romuli matrem crearet et nepotem Cæsarem;

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Rura fecundat uoluptas, rura Venerem sentiunt;
Ipse Amor, puer Dionæ, rure natus dicitur.
Hunc, ager cum parturiret, ipsa suscepit sinu:
Ipsa florum delicatis educauit osculis.

Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.

Ecce iam subter genestas explicant agni latus,
Quisque tutus quo tenetur coniugali foedere.
Subter umbras cum maritis ecce balantum greges:
Et canoras non tacere diua iussit alites.
Iam loquaces ore rauco stagna cygni perstrepunt:
Adsonat Terei puella subter umbram populi,
Ut putes motus amoris ore dici musico,
Et neges queri sororem de marito barbaro.
Illa cantat, nos tacemus. Quando uer uenit meum?
Quando fiam uti chelidon, ut tacere desinam?
Perdidi Musam tacendo, nec me Phoebus respicit.
Sic Amyclas, cum tacerent, perdidit silentium.

----------

Amoribus vestris Venus faveat.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Lentulus Dextro sal.


Sed priusquam docebis, permitte quaeso ut te aliquid ipse doceam. Si verbo in tempore praesenti perfecto ("decrevi") uteris, eoque ita uteris ut sensum logicum suum (actum perfectum in praesenti tempore) spectes neque sensum suum praeteritum, modo coniunctivo (subiunctivo, ut alii dicunt) praesenti tibi licet, non solum licet sed decet uti.






--- Mar 16/2/10, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:

Da: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin lesson was (EDict V CFBQ, Appointment of Assisting Latinist)
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 16 febbraio 2010, 19:39







 









Salvete latinistae primae decuriae!



Mihi licet ut vos consecutionem temporum doceam:

> Latinista Primus meus Cn. Cornelius Lentulus et ego in verbis ex

> Anglico in Latinum transferendis adiumento egemus, itaque decrevi ut

> Latinistam Adiutorem qui Latinistam Primum Cn. Cornelium Lentulum

> adiuvet creem.

Oportebat enim scribere:

"decrevi ut ... crearem qui... adjuvaret".



Cras vos constructionem ad sensum docebo. ;o)



Optime valete.



C. Petronius Dexter

Arcoiali scribebat

a.d. XIV Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Buteoni Quintiliano consule sal.

If the consul would consider waiving the time limit for having announced candidacies as well, I am willing to stand in service to the Respublica as quaestor.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Christer Edling <christer.edling@...> wrote:
>
> Ex Officio Consulis Caesonis Fabii Buteonis Quintiliani
>
> Edictum Consulare CFBQ III de candidati Comitia Populi Tributa CFBQ
>
> (The THIRD Consular edict CFBQ on candidates in Comitia Populi Tributa
> CFBQ).
>
>
> I hereby waive the requirement to annonounce candidacy in these
> elections to me on my private mail, as in the following:
>
> All potential candidates must contact me with their intention to stand
> for office directly by sending a message to:
> christer dot edling at telia dot com
> in order to be placed on the ballot. Please include the word
> "candidate" in the subject of the message, and be sure to tell me your
> full Nova Roman name and the office for which you will campaign.
>
> Simply announcing your candidacy to one of the lists shall not be
> accepted. You must write to me directly.
>
> According to this edict I accept the candidacy of M. Moravius Piscinus
> as Diribitor announced on the Main list.
>
> I do this as there are too few candidates and to at least get a full
> crew of Diribitores and I hereby accept the candidacy of M. Moravius
> Piscinus for Diribitor.
>
> PLEASE OBSERVE that exceptions like this one, should not be a rule,
> but the Res Publica need to get a full crew so future elections may go
> on if some of the current Diribitores will have problems in executing
> their duties.
>
> Sadly enough we still will need two more Quaestores after these
> elections, so new elections will have to be held.
>
> *****************
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
>
> Consul Iterum
> Princeps Senatus et Flamen Palatualis
> Civis Romanus sum
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Main_Page
> ************************************************
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
> "I'll either find a way or make one"
> ************************************************
> Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
> Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
> ************************************************
> Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
> Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Dexter Cn. Lentulo suo s.p.d.,

> Sed priusquam docebis, permitte quaeso ut te aliquid ipse doceam.

Mihi valde placet discere.

> Si verbo in tempore praesenti perfecto ("decrevi") uteris, eoque ita uteris ut sensum logicum suum (actum perfectum in praesenti tempore) spectes neque sensum suum praeteritum, modo coniunctivo (subiunctivo, ut alii dicunt) praesenti tibi licet, non solum licet sed decet uti.

Haec regula falsa est, quia subjonctivus modus non habet temporis logicam per se sed tantum in relatione cum verbo principalis sententiae. Exempli gratia:

Decreo ut creem (nunc decreo rem) vel decreo ut creaverim (nunc decreo rem praeteritam. Tantum exempli gratia.) eaedem res sed in praeterito tempore sunt relationes: decrevi ut crearem (etiam si crearem significat praesentem aut futuram rem sed in relatione cum "decrevi" semper praeteritum tempus) aut decrevi ut creavissem.

Est lectio consecutionis temporum. Subjonctivus modus non est modus temporalis sed tantum relationalis inter principalem et coordinatam.

Optime vale.

Errare humanimum est sed perseverare...

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XIII Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Dexter Cn. Lentulo suo s.p.d.,

Pro "decreo" qui non existit, legas "decerno". :o)) Sed vix experrectus eram.

Haec regula falsa est, quia subjonctivus modus non habet temporis logicam per se sed tantum in relatione cum verbo principalis sententiae. Exempli gratia:

Decerno ut creem (nunc decerno rem) vel decerno ut creaverim (nunc decerno rem praeteritam. Tantum exempli gratia.) eaedem res sed in praeterito tempore sunt relationes: decrevi ut crearem (etiam si crearem significat praesentem aut futuram rem sed in relatione cum "decrevi" semper praeteritum tempus) aut decrevi ut creavissem.

Est lectio consecutionis temporum. Subjonctivus modus non est modus temporalis sed tantum relationalis inter principalem et coordinatam.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XIII Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Iuila Liviae Petronio omnibusque S.P.D.

I am late thanking you Dexter, but thank you, this is truly beautiful - "Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet"

Livia, this is beautiful in Latin and I hope by posting the translation I copied from my Loeb's copy of the Pervivilium Veneris that this will not spoil your experience in any way.

It always makes me wonder why when something this wonderful is posted it does not get more discussion. For example the last stanza when those involved in a love triangle are turned into singing birds - the imagery, the implications, tells a tale of its own.

I had not been able to find a free translation on line - one would think there would be at least one of this magnificent poem - so as I said a moment ago, I typed it from my personal copy. I tried to stay true to the format because I believe Mackail was trying to stay true to the literary devices in the original poem. So between typing it very quickly and wrestling with the word program so it would not auto correct or capitilize without permission I offer the translation:


Tiberiani
Pervigilium Veneris

Translated by J.W. Mackail 1913



Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
and let him who has tomorrow love!

Spring is young, spring now is singing, in the
spring the world was born; in spring the loves make
accord, in spring the birds mate, and the woodland
unbinds her tresses as the result of impregnating
showers. Tomorrow the coupler of loves amid
shadows of tress weaves verdurous bowers of myrtle-
spray; tomorrow Dione enthroned on high declares her laws.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

Tomorrow marks the day when from the blood
that dropped from heaven, in a ball of foam, amid its
azure squadrons, amid its two-footed steeds, the sea
created Dione floating out of the waves of ocean.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

She herself paints the crimsoning year with flow-
ery jewels; herself coaxes the nascent buds into glow-
ing clusters under the West Wind's breath; herself
sprinkles dripping wetness of the glittering dew that
the night–air leaves as it passes. The tears of dew
sparkle as they tremble with drooping weight! The
downward dewdrop preserving its tiny orb controls its
fall. Lo, the petalled crimsons have unveiled their
blush! The moisture that the stars distill on cloudless
nights unfolds the maiden buds from their wet cloaks
at dawn. The Goddess herself had bidden the maiden
roses to be brides in the morning dew; made of
Venus' blood and Love's kisses, and of jewels and of
flames and of flushes of the sun, tomorrow the bride,
faithful to a single bond, will not be ashamed to
unfold the crimson that lurked hidden in her robe of
flame.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

The Goddess herself has bidden the nymphs go
forth to the myrtle grove. With the girls the Boy
goes in company; and yet it may not be deemed that
Love is on a holiday if he carries his shafts. "Go Forth,
nymphs; Love has laid aside his weapons, he is on
holiday. He has been bidden go forth unarmed, has
been bidden go forth naked, that he might do no
injury with bow or shaft or torch. Yet take heed,
nymphs, for Cupid is wondrous fair; when Love is
naked, he is fully armed.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

"Venus sends thee maidens as virginal as thou;
one thing it is we ask; retire, maid of Delos, that the
woodland be unstained by wild creatures' slaughter,
and cast its verdurous shadows over flowers that
stand firmly up. Venus herself would ask thee, if she
might bend they virginity; she would thou camest
thyself, if that were meet for a maiden. Now for
three nights of festival wouldst thou have seen bands
of dancers streaming through thy glades among the
assembled multitudes among the coronals of blossom,
among the myrtle bowers. Ceres and Bacchus are
not absent, nor the poets' god. The whole night is to
be beguiled and kept awake with song; let Dione be
queen in the woods! Do thou retire, maid of Delos."

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

The Goddess has bidden her tribunal be set amid
Flowers of Hybia; she herself will preside and deliver
judgment, the Graces will take their seats beside
her. Pour forth all they flowers, O Hybia, the whole
harvest of the year; put on they garment of flowers, O
Hybia, all over the Etnian plain. Here will be the
country-maidens or the hill-maidens, and they who
dwell in the forests, groves, and springs; the mother of the
winged Boy has bidden them all sit beside her, has
bidden maids put no trust in Love, even naked.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

Tomorrow brings the day on which Ether first
coupled in wedlock, so that as father he might beget
the whole year from the clouds of spring; his
bridegroom-shower flowed into the lap of his fruitful
wife, that so mingling with her giant body it might
nourish all their offspring. The Creatress herself in
hidden might from within sways flesh and spirit with
her enkindling life; and through sky, through land,
and through the sea beneath she poured a pervasive
tide of herself along the passage of the seed and bade
the universe know the ways of generation.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

It is Venus who engrafted her Trojan offspring on
the Latins; Venus who gave the maid of Laurentum
to her own son for bride, and gives the thereafter to Mars
from Vesta's temple a chaste virgin; Venus who
brought about the marriage of the sons of Romulus
with the Sabine women, wherefrom she might produce
the Ramnes and Quirites and, for the glory of the
future race of Romulus, the Caesars, father and nephew.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

The country quickens with love's delight, the
country feels Venus' touch; Love himself, the child of
Dione, is deemed country-born. Him, when the
fields were in travail, she herself took up into her
bosom, herself nursed with dainty kisses of flowers.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!

See, the bulls now lay their flanks beneath the
broom, each secure in the conjugal bond which binds
him! See beneath the shade of bleating flocks with
their lords! And the Goddess has bidden the tuneful
birds not to be mute; now hoarse-mouthed swans
crash trumpeting over the pools; the young wife of
Tereus makes descant under the popular shade, ma-
king you think that tunes of love issued from her
brutal husband. She sings, I am mute. When will
my spring come? When shall I become like the
swallow, that I may cease to be voiceless? I have
lost my Muse through being voiceless, and Phoebus
regards me not; so did Amyclae, through being voice-
less, perish by its very silence.

Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
And let him who has tomorrow love!



Amoribus vestris Venus faveat,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Livia Petronio sal.
>
> Plurimas gratias tibi ago!
>
> I have to confess I only understood a third of this, but it's beautiful, and
> I will save it for future reference.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:49 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] To those who celebrate love today :o)
>
>
> C. Petronius omnibus Forensibus s.p.d.,
>
>
> PERVIGILIVM VENERIS
>
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Ver nouum, uer iam canorum, uere natus orbis natus est,
> Vere concordant amores, uere nubunt alites,
> Et nemus comam resoluit de maritis imbribus.
> Cras amorum copulatrix inter umbras arborum
> Inplicat casa uirentes de flagello myrteo:
> Cras Dione iura dicit fulta sublimi throno.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Tunc cruore de superno spumeo pontus globo
> Cæruleas inter cateruas, inter et bipedes equos
> Fecit undantem Dionem de maritis imbribus.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Ipsa gemmis purpurantem pingit annum floridis,
> Ipsa surgentes papillas de Fauoni spiritu
> Urget in toros tepentes, ipsa roris lucidi,
> Noctis aura quem relinquit, spargit umentis aquas.
> En micant lacrimæ trementes de caduco pondere:
> Gutta præceps orbe paruo sustinet casus suos.
> En pudorem florulentæ prodiderunt purpuræ:
> Umor ille, quem serenis astra rorant noctibus,
> Mane uirgineas papillas soluit umenti peplo.
> Ipsa iussit mane ut udæ uirgines nubant rosæ:
> Facta Cypridis de cruore deque flabris deque Solis purpuris
> Cras ruborem, qui latebat ueste tectus ignea,
> Unico marita uoto non pudebit soluere.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Ipsa Nymphas diua luco iussit ire myrteo:
> It puer comes puellis: nec tamen credi potest
> Esse amorem feriatum, si sagittas uexerit.
> Ite, Nymphæ, posuit arma, feriatus est Amor:
> Iussus est inermis ire, nudus ire iussus est,
> Neu quid arcu, neu sagitta, neu quid igne læderet.
> Sed tamen, Nymphæ, cauete, quod Cupido pulcher est:
> Totus est in armis idem quando nudus est Amor.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Conpari Venus pudore mittit ad te uirgines.
> Una res est quam rogamus: cede, uirgo Delia,
> Ut nemus sit incruentum de ferinis stragibus.
> Ipsa uellet te rogare, si pudicam flecteret,
> Ipsa uellet ut uenires, si deceret uirginem.
> Iam tribus choros uideres feriantis noctibus
> Congreges inter cateruas ire per saltus tuos,
> Floreas inter coronas, myrteas inter casas.
> Nec Ceres, nec Bacchus absunt, nec poetarum deus.
> Detinenter tota nox est peruiclanda canticis:
> Regnet in siluis Dione: tu recede, Delia.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Iussit Hyblæis tribunal stare diua floribus;
> Præses ipsa iura dicet, adsidebunt Gratiæ.
> Hybla, totus funde flores, quidquid annus adtulit;
> Hybla, florum sume uestem, quantus Ætnæ campus est.
> Ruris hic erunt puellæ uel puellæ fontium,
> Qæque siluas, quæque lucos, quæque montes incolunt.
> Iussit omnes adsidere pueri mater alitis,
> Iussit et nudo puellas nil Amori credere.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Et recentibus uirentes ducat umbras floribus.
> Cras erit quom primus primus Æther copulauit nuptias,
> Ut pater totis crearet uernis annum nubibus:
> In sinum maritus imber fluxit almæ coniugis,
> Unde fetus mixtus omnis omnis aleret magno corpore.
> Ipsa uenas atque mente permeanti spiritu
> Intus occultis gubernat procreatrix uiribus,
> Perque coelum perque terras perque pontum subditum
> Peruium sui tenorem seminali tramite
> Inbuit iusstque mundum nosse nascendi uias.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Ipsa Troianos nepotes in Latinos transtulit:
> Ipsa Laurentem puellam coniugem nato dedit,
> Moxque Marti de sacello dat pudicam uirginem:
> Romuleas ipsa fecit cum Sabinis nuptias
> Unde Ramnes et Quirites proque prole posterum
> Romuli matrem crearet et nepotem Cæsarem;
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Rura fecundat uoluptas, rura Venerem sentiunt;
> Ipse Amor, puer Dionæ, rure natus dicitur.
> Hunc, ager cum parturiret, ipsa suscepit sinu:
> Ipsa florum delicatis educauit osculis.
>
> Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
>
> Ecce iam subter genestas explicant agni latus,
> Quisque tutus quo tenetur coniugali foedere.
> Subter umbras cum maritis ecce balantum greges:
> Et canoras non tacere diua iussit alites.
> Iam loquaces ore rauco stagna cygni perstrepunt:
> Adsonat Terei puella subter umbram populi,
> Ut putes motus amoris ore dici musico,
> Et neges queri sororem de marito barbaro.
> Illa cantat, nos tacemus. Quando uer uenit meum?
> Quando fiam uti chelidon, ut tacere desinam?
> Perdidi Musam tacendo, nec me Phoebus respicit.
> Sic Amyclas, cum tacerent, perdidit silentium.
>
> ----------
>
> Amoribus vestris Venus faveat.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Salvete

Non-Facebook users may not be able to see that album.

Agricola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> here is the link to Livia's reproductions of Roman phallic amulets to wear
> http://www.facebook.com/livia.cases?ref=nf#!/album.php?page=2&aid=128771&id=828009843
>
> She sells them & I asked her if she'd make me one for Juno Caelestis [Tanit] of Carthage.
> optime vale
> Maior
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >
> > Livia Agricolae sal.
> > Thanks a lot for the link! I read the article and saved it for future
> > reference. Specially appendix B seems very useful.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "marcus.lucretius" <marcus.lucretius@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:06 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin behaviour.
> >
> >
> > Agricola Omnibus sal.
> >
> > A very interesting read on the phallus (to use a proper academic term) as
> > apotropaic image is "Naked Power: The Phallus as an Apotropaic Symbol in the
> > Images and Texts of Roman Italy" available here:
> > http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1010&context=uhf_2006
> >
> > This well-illustrated and well-written paper is an antidote to such
> > Victorian preconceptions as may be held and is a great way to begin to
> > reclaim an aspect of Roman culture that very many even today misunderstand.
> >
> > optime valete in cura deorum
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dexter Sullae sal.
> > >
> > > > As one of the owners of the BackAlley and a fellow academic, we who are
> > > > subscribed on the back alley do not prefer to sanitize the actual
> > > > ancients like Ovid who wrote his book on how to seduce married
> > > > women...or the residents of ancient Pompeii who had artistic cocks
> > > > posted literally everywhere.
> > >
> > > Voilà donc la preuve de votre complète ignorance. Vous avez employé un mot
> > > argotique pour expliquer ce que vous ne comprenez pas. Pour les Romains le
> > > Phallus ou Fascinum (d'où vient le mot fascination) était le signe de la
> > > Félicité et de la Prospérité. Ce n'était pas de l'art cochon.
> > >
> > > There is the proof of your complete ignorance. You say a slang word of the
> > > penis to explain something you do not understand. For Romans the Phallus
> > > or Fascinum (from which comes the word fascination) was the sign of the
> > > felicity and the prosperity. It was not artistick X.
> > >
> > > Ovid did not write poems on how seduce married women. He wrote himself
> > > about his Ars amandi:
> > >
> > > Usus opus movet hoc: vati parete perito
> > > Vera canam; coeptis, mater Amoris, ades.
> > > Este procul vittae tenues, insigne pudoris,
> > > Quaeque tegis medios instita longa pedes:
> > > Nos Venerem tutam concessaque furta canemus
> > > Inque meo nullum carmine crimen erit.
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > Arcoiali scribebat
> > > a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > >
> >
>

Maior Liviae Petronio Juliaeque spd;
heh great minds amici, this poem is truly beautiful and I was just about to post a link to a translation in English and Spanish on the net
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/pervigiliume.html
Thank you Julia for giving this all to everyone who doesnt have Latin, but it is a reason to learn

Dexter, tibi gratias ago if we like shall we discuss the couplet, so charming in Latin and not too hard.I think most everyone knows that Latin word : Amor...love
vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <dis_pensible@...> wrote:
>
> Iuila Liviae Petronio omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> I am late thanking you Dexter, but thank you, this is truly beautiful - "Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet"
>
> Livia, this is beautiful in Latin and I hope by posting the translation I copied from my Loeb's copy of the Pervivilium Veneris that this will not spoil your experience in any way.
>
> It always makes me wonder why when something this wonderful is posted it does not get more discussion. For example the last stanza when those involved in a love triangle are turned into singing birds - the imagery, the implications, tells a tale of its own.
>
> I had not been able to find a free translation on line - one would think there would be at least one of this magnificent poem - so as I said a moment ago, I typed it from my personal copy. I tried to stay true to the format because I believe Mackail was trying to stay true to the literary devices in the original poem. So between typing it very quickly and wrestling with the word program so it would not auto correct or capitilize without permission I offer the translation:
>
>
> Tiberiani
> Pervigilium Veneris
>
> Translated by J.W. Mackail 1913
>
>
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> and let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Spring is young, spring now is singing, in the
> spring the world was born; in spring the loves make
> accord, in spring the birds mate, and the woodland
> unbinds her tresses as the result of impregnating
> showers. Tomorrow the coupler of loves amid
> shadows of tress weaves verdurous bowers of myrtle-
> spray; tomorrow Dione enthroned on high declares her laws.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Tomorrow marks the day when from the blood
> that dropped from heaven, in a ball of foam, amid its
> azure squadrons, amid its two-footed steeds, the sea
> created Dione floating out of the waves of ocean.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> She herself paints the crimsoning year with flow-
> ery jewels; herself coaxes the nascent buds into glow-
> ing clusters under the West Wind's breath; herself
> sprinkles dripping wetness of the glittering dew that
> the night–air leaves as it passes. The tears of dew
> sparkle as they tremble with drooping weight! The
> downward dewdrop preserving its tiny orb controls its
> fall. Lo, the petalled crimsons have unveiled their
> blush! The moisture that the stars distill on cloudless
> nights unfolds the maiden buds from their wet cloaks
> at dawn. The Goddess herself had bidden the maiden
> roses to be brides in the morning dew; made of
> Venus' blood and Love's kisses, and of jewels and of
> flames and of flushes of the sun, tomorrow the bride,
> faithful to a single bond, will not be ashamed to
> unfold the crimson that lurked hidden in her robe of
> flame.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The Goddess herself has bidden the nymphs go
> forth to the myrtle grove. With the girls the Boy
> goes in company; and yet it may not be deemed that
> Love is on a holiday if he carries his shafts. "Go Forth,
> nymphs; Love has laid aside his weapons, he is on
> holiday. He has been bidden go forth unarmed, has
> been bidden go forth naked, that he might do no
> injury with bow or shaft or torch. Yet take heed,
> nymphs, for Cupid is wondrous fair; when Love is
> naked, he is fully armed.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> "Venus sends thee maidens as virginal as thou;
> one thing it is we ask; retire, maid of Delos, that the
> woodland be unstained by wild creatures' slaughter,
> and cast its verdurous shadows over flowers that
> stand firmly up. Venus herself would ask thee, if she
> might bend they virginity; she would thou camest
> thyself, if that were meet for a maiden. Now for
> three nights of festival wouldst thou have seen bands
> of dancers streaming through thy glades among the
> assembled multitudes among the coronals of blossom,
> among the myrtle bowers. Ceres and Bacchus are
> not absent, nor the poets' god. The whole night is to
> be beguiled and kept awake with song; let Dione be
> queen in the woods! Do thou retire, maid of Delos."
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The Goddess has bidden her tribunal be set amid
> Flowers of Hybia; she herself will preside and deliver
> judgment, the Graces will take their seats beside
> her. Pour forth all they flowers, O Hybia, the whole
> harvest of the year; put on they garment of flowers, O
> Hybia, all over the Etnian plain. Here will be the
> country-maidens or the hill-maidens, and they who
> dwell in the forests, groves, and springs; the mother of the
> winged Boy has bidden them all sit beside her, has
> bidden maids put no trust in Love, even naked.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Tomorrow brings the day on which Ether first
> coupled in wedlock, so that as father he might beget
> the whole year from the clouds of spring; his
> bridegroom-shower flowed into the lap of his fruitful
> wife, that so mingling with her giant body it might
> nourish all their offspring. The Creatress herself in
> hidden might from within sways flesh and spirit with
> her enkindling life; and through sky, through land,
> and through the sea beneath she poured a pervasive
> tide of herself along the passage of the seed and bade
> the universe know the ways of generation.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> It is Venus who engrafted her Trojan offspring on
> the Latins; Venus who gave the maid of Laurentum
> to her own son for bride, and gives the thereafter to Mars
> from Vesta's temple a chaste virgin; Venus who
> brought about the marriage of the sons of Romulus
> with the Sabine women, wherefrom she might produce
> the Ramnes and Quirites and, for the glory of the
> future race of Romulus, the Caesars, father and nephew.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The country quickens with love's delight, the
> country feels Venus' touch; Love himself, the child of
> Dione, is deemed country-born. Him, when the
> fields were in travail, she herself took up into her
> bosom, herself nursed with dainty kisses of flowers.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> See, the bulls now lay their flanks beneath the
> broom, each secure in the conjugal bond which binds
> him! See beneath the shade of bleating flocks with
> their lords! And the Goddess has bidden the tuneful
> birds not to be mute; now hoarse-mouthed swans
> crash trumpeting over the pools; the young wife of
> Tereus makes descant under the popular shade, ma-
> king you think that tunes of love issued from her
> brutal husband. She sings, I am mute. When will
> my spring come? When shall I become like the
> swallow, that I may cease to be voiceless? I have
> lost my Muse through being voiceless, and Phoebus
> regards me not; so did Amyclae, through being voice-
> less, perish by its very silence.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
>
>
> Amoribus vestris Venus faveat,
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >
> > Livia Petronio sal.
> >
> > Plurimas gratias tibi ago!
> >
> > I have to confess I only understood a third of this, but it's beautiful, and
> > I will save it for future reference.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:49 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] To those who celebrate love today :o)
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius omnibus Forensibus s.p.d.,
> >
> >
> > PERVIGILIVM VENERIS
> >
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ver nouum, uer iam canorum, uere natus orbis natus est,
> > Vere concordant amores, uere nubunt alites,
> > Et nemus comam resoluit de maritis imbribus.
> > Cras amorum copulatrix inter umbras arborum
> > Inplicat casa uirentes de flagello myrteo:
> > Cras Dione iura dicit fulta sublimi throno.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Tunc cruore de superno spumeo pontus globo
> > Cæruleas inter cateruas, inter et bipedes equos
> > Fecit undantem Dionem de maritis imbribus.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa gemmis purpurantem pingit annum floridis,
> > Ipsa surgentes papillas de Fauoni spiritu
> > Urget in toros tepentes, ipsa roris lucidi,
> > Noctis aura quem relinquit, spargit umentis aquas.
> > En micant lacrimæ trementes de caduco pondere:
> > Gutta præceps orbe paruo sustinet casus suos.
> > En pudorem florulentæ prodiderunt purpuræ:
> > Umor ille, quem serenis astra rorant noctibus,
> > Mane uirgineas papillas soluit umenti peplo.
> > Ipsa iussit mane ut udæ uirgines nubant rosæ:
> > Facta Cypridis de cruore deque flabris deque Solis purpuris
> > Cras ruborem, qui latebat ueste tectus ignea,
> > Unico marita uoto non pudebit soluere.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa Nymphas diua luco iussit ire myrteo:
> > It puer comes puellis: nec tamen credi potest
> > Esse amorem feriatum, si sagittas uexerit.
> > Ite, Nymphæ, posuit arma, feriatus est Amor:
> > Iussus est inermis ire, nudus ire iussus est,
> > Neu quid arcu, neu sagitta, neu quid igne læderet.
> > Sed tamen, Nymphæ, cauete, quod Cupido pulcher est:
> > Totus est in armis idem quando nudus est Amor.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Conpari Venus pudore mittit ad te uirgines.
> > Una res est quam rogamus: cede, uirgo Delia,
> > Ut nemus sit incruentum de ferinis stragibus.
> > Ipsa uellet te rogare, si pudicam flecteret,
> > Ipsa uellet ut uenires, si deceret uirginem.
> > Iam tribus choros uideres feriantis noctibus
> > Congreges inter cateruas ire per saltus tuos,
> > Floreas inter coronas, myrteas inter casas.
> > Nec Ceres, nec Bacchus absunt, nec poetarum deus.
> > Detinenter tota nox est peruiclanda canticis:
> > Regnet in siluis Dione: tu recede, Delia.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Iussit Hyblæis tribunal stare diua floribus;
> > Præses ipsa iura dicet, adsidebunt Gratiæ.
> > Hybla, totus funde flores, quidquid annus adtulit;
> > Hybla, florum sume uestem, quantus Ætnæ campus est.
> > Ruris hic erunt puellæ uel puellæ fontium,
> > Qæque siluas, quæque lucos, quæque montes incolunt.
> > Iussit omnes adsidere pueri mater alitis,
> > Iussit et nudo puellas nil Amori credere.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Et recentibus uirentes ducat umbras floribus.
> > Cras erit quom primus primus Æther copulauit nuptias,
> > Ut pater totis crearet uernis annum nubibus:
> > In sinum maritus imber fluxit almæ coniugis,
> > Unde fetus mixtus omnis omnis aleret magno corpore.
> > Ipsa uenas atque mente permeanti spiritu
> > Intus occultis gubernat procreatrix uiribus,
> > Perque coelum perque terras perque pontum subditum
> > Peruium sui tenorem seminali tramite
> > Inbuit iusstque mundum nosse nascendi uias.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa Troianos nepotes in Latinos transtulit:
> > Ipsa Laurentem puellam coniugem nato dedit,
> > Moxque Marti de sacello dat pudicam uirginem:
> > Romuleas ipsa fecit cum Sabinis nuptias
> > Unde Ramnes et Quirites proque prole posterum
> > Romuli matrem crearet et nepotem Cæsarem;
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Rura fecundat uoluptas, rura Venerem sentiunt;
> > Ipse Amor, puer Dionæ, rure natus dicitur.
> > Hunc, ager cum parturiret, ipsa suscepit sinu:
> > Ipsa florum delicatis educauit osculis.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ecce iam subter genestas explicant agni latus,
> > Quisque tutus quo tenetur coniugali foedere.
> > Subter umbras cum maritis ecce balantum greges:
> > Et canoras non tacere diua iussit alites.
> > Iam loquaces ore rauco stagna cygni perstrepunt:
> > Adsonat Terei puella subter umbram populi,
> > Ut putes motus amoris ore dici musico,
> > Et neges queri sororem de marito barbaro.
> > Illa cantat, nos tacemus. Quando uer uenit meum?
> > Quando fiam uti chelidon, ut tacere desinam?
> > Perdidi Musam tacendo, nec me Phoebus respicit.
> > Sic Amyclas, cum tacerent, perdidit silentium.
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > Amoribus vestris Venus faveat.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>

Aeternia Julia s.p.d.


Magnificent poem indeed the cadence and the imagery were excellent, my
favorite part of the poem was the fifth stanza down after the fifth chorus
line... There were quite a few stories within the story.

Again a lovely piece.


Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:00 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <dis_pensible@...

> wrote:

>
>
> Iuila Liviae Petronio omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> I am late thanking you Dexter, but thank you, this is truly beautiful -
> "Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet"
>
> Livia, this is beautiful in Latin and I hope by posting the translation I
> copied from my Loeb's copy of the Pervivilium Veneris that this will not
> spoil your experience in any way.
>
> It always makes me wonder why when something this wonderful is posted it
> does not get more discussion. For example the last stanza when those
> involved in a love triangle are turned into singing birds - the imagery, the
> implications, tells a tale of its own.
>
> I had not been able to find a free translation on line - one would think
> there would be at least one of this magnificent poem - so as I said a moment
> ago, I typed it from my personal copy. I tried to stay true to the format
> because I believe Mackail was trying to stay true to the literary devices in
> the original poem. So between typing it very quickly and wrestling with the
> word program so it would not auto correct or capitilize without permission I
> offer the translation:
>
> Tiberiani
> Pervigilium Veneris
>
> Translated by J.W. Mackail 1913
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> and let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Spring is young, spring now is singing, in the
> spring the world was born; in spring the loves make
> accord, in spring the birds mate, and the woodland
> unbinds her tresses as the result of impregnating
> showers. Tomorrow the coupler of loves amid
> shadows of tress weaves verdurous bowers of myrtle-
> spray; tomorrow Dione enthroned on high declares her laws.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Tomorrow marks the day when from the blood
> that dropped from heaven, in a ball of foam, amid its
> azure squadrons, amid its two-footed steeds, the sea
> created Dione floating out of the waves of ocean.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> She herself paints the crimsoning year with flow-
> ery jewels; herself coaxes the nascent buds into glow-
> ing clusters under the West Wind's breath; herself
> sprinkles dripping wetness of the glittering dew that
> the night�air leaves as it passes. The tears of dew
> sparkle as they tremble with drooping weight! The
> downward dewdrop preserving its tiny orb controls its
> fall. Lo, the petalled crimsons have unveiled their
> blush! The moisture that the stars distill on cloudless
> nights unfolds the maiden buds from their wet cloaks
> at dawn. The Goddess herself had bidden the maiden
> roses to be brides in the morning dew; made of
> Venus' blood and Love's kisses, and of jewels and of
> flames and of flushes of the sun, tomorrow the bride,
> faithful to a single bond, will not be ashamed to
> unfold the crimson that lurked hidden in her robe of
> flame.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The Goddess herself has bidden the nymphs go
> forth to the myrtle grove. With the girls the Boy
> goes in company; and yet it may not be deemed that
> Love is on a holiday if he carries his shafts. "Go Forth,
> nymphs; Love has laid aside his weapons, he is on
> holiday. He has been bidden go forth unarmed, has
> been bidden go forth naked, that he might do no
> injury with bow or shaft or torch. Yet take heed,
> nymphs, for Cupid is wondrous fair; when Love is
> naked, he is fully armed.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> "Venus sends thee maidens as virginal as thou;
> one thing it is we ask; retire, maid of Delos, that the
> woodland be unstained by wild creatures' slaughter,
> and cast its verdurous shadows over flowers that
> stand firmly up. Venus herself would ask thee, if she
> might bend they virginity; she would thou camest
> thyself, if that were meet for a maiden. Now for
> three nights of festival wouldst thou have seen bands
> of dancers streaming through thy glades among the
> assembled multitudes among the coronals of blossom,
> among the myrtle bowers. Ceres and Bacchus are
> not absent, nor the poets' god. The whole night is to
> be beguiled and kept awake with song; let Dione be
> queen in the woods! Do thou retire, maid of Delos."
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The Goddess has bidden her tribunal be set amid
> Flowers of Hybia; she herself will preside and deliver
> judgment, the Graces will take their seats beside
> her. Pour forth all they flowers, O Hybia, the whole
> harvest of the year; put on they garment of flowers, O
> Hybia, all over the Etnian plain. Here will be the
> country-maidens or the hill-maidens, and they who
> dwell in the forests, groves, and springs; the mother of the
> winged Boy has bidden them all sit beside her, has
> bidden maids put no trust in Love, even naked.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Tomorrow brings the day on which Ether first
> coupled in wedlock, so that as father he might beget
> the whole year from the clouds of spring; his
> bridegroom-shower flowed into the lap of his fruitful
> wife, that so mingling with her giant body it might
> nourish all their offspring. The Creatress herself in
> hidden might from within sways flesh and spirit with
> her enkindling life; and through sky, through land,
> and through the sea beneath she poured a pervasive
> tide of herself along the passage of the seed and bade
> the universe know the ways of generation.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> It is Venus who engrafted her Trojan offspring on
> the Latins; Venus who gave the maid of Laurentum
> to her own son for bride, and gives the thereafter to Mars
> from Vesta's temple a chaste virgin; Venus who
> brought about the marriage of the sons of Romulus
> with the Sabine women, wherefrom she might produce
> the Ramnes and Quirites and, for the glory of the
> future race of Romulus, the Caesars, father and nephew.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> The country quickens with love's delight, the
> country feels Venus' touch; Love himself, the child of
> Dione, is deemed country-born. Him, when the
> fields were in travail, she herself took up into her
> bosom, herself nursed with dainty kisses of flowers.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> See, the bulls now lay their flanks beneath the
> broom, each secure in the conjugal bond which binds
> him! See beneath the shade of bleating flocks with
> their lords! And the Goddess has bidden the tuneful
> birds not to be mute; now hoarse-mouthed swans
> crash trumpeting over the pools; the young wife of
> Tereus makes descant under the popular shade, ma-
> king you think that tunes of love issued from her
> brutal husband. She sings, I am mute. When will
> my spring come? When shall I become like the
> swallow, that I may cease to be voiceless? I have
> lost my Muse through being voiceless, and Phoebus
> regards me not; so did Amyclae, through being voice-
> less, perish by its very silence.
>
> Let him love tomorrow who has never loved,
> And let him who has tomorrow love!
>
> Amoribus vestris Venus faveat,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "L. Livia
> Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
> >
> > Livia Petronio sal.
> >
> > Plurimas gratias tibi ago!
> >
> > I have to confess I only understood a third of this, but it's beautiful,
> and
> > I will save it for future reference.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:49 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] To those who celebrate love today :o)
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius omnibus Forensibus s.p.d.,
> >
> >
> > PERVIGILIVM VENERIS
> >
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ver nouum, uer iam canorum, uere natus orbis natus est,
> > Vere concordant amores, uere nubunt alites,
> > Et nemus comam resoluit de maritis imbribus.
> > Cras amorum copulatrix inter umbras arborum
> > Inplicat casa uirentes de flagello myrteo:
> > Cras Dione iura dicit fulta sublimi throno.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Tunc cruore de superno spumeo pontus globo
> > C�ruleas inter cateruas, inter et bipedes equos
> > Fecit undantem Dionem de maritis imbribus.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa gemmis purpurantem pingit annum floridis,
> > Ipsa surgentes papillas de Fauoni spiritu
> > Urget in toros tepentes, ipsa roris lucidi,
> > Noctis aura quem relinquit, spargit umentis aquas.
> > En micant lacrim� trementes de caduco pondere:
> > Gutta pr�ceps orbe paruo sustinet casus suos.
> > En pudorem florulent� prodiderunt purpur�:
> > Umor ille, quem serenis astra rorant noctibus,
> > Mane uirgineas papillas soluit umenti peplo.
> > Ipsa iussit mane ut ud� uirgines nubant ros�:
> > Facta Cypridis de cruore deque flabris deque Solis purpuris
> > Cras ruborem, qui latebat ueste tectus ignea,
> > Unico marita uoto non pudebit soluere.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa Nymphas diua luco iussit ire myrteo:
> > It puer comes puellis: nec tamen credi potest
> > Esse amorem feriatum, si sagittas uexerit.
> > Ite, Nymph�, posuit arma, feriatus est Amor:
> > Iussus est inermis ire, nudus ire iussus est,
> > Neu quid arcu, neu sagitta, neu quid igne l�deret.
> > Sed tamen, Nymph�, cauete, quod Cupido pulcher est:
> > Totus est in armis idem quando nudus est Amor.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Conpari Venus pudore mittit ad te uirgines.
> > Una res est quam rogamus: cede, uirgo Delia,
> > Ut nemus sit incruentum de ferinis stragibus.
> > Ipsa uellet te rogare, si pudicam flecteret,
> > Ipsa uellet ut uenires, si deceret uirginem.
> > Iam tribus choros uideres feriantis noctibus
> > Congreges inter cateruas ire per saltus tuos,
> > Floreas inter coronas, myrteas inter casas.
> > Nec Ceres, nec Bacchus absunt, nec poetarum deus.
> > Detinenter tota nox est peruiclanda canticis:
> > Regnet in siluis Dione: tu recede, Delia.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Iussit Hybl�is tribunal stare diua floribus;
> > Pr�ses ipsa iura dicet, adsidebunt Grati�.
> > Hybla, totus funde flores, quidquid annus adtulit;
> > Hybla, florum sume uestem, quantus �tn� campus est.
> > Ruris hic erunt puell� uel puell� fontium,
> > Q�que siluas, qu�que lucos, qu�que montes incolunt.
> > Iussit omnes adsidere pueri mater alitis,
> > Iussit et nudo puellas nil Amori credere.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Et recentibus uirentes ducat umbras floribus.
> > Cras erit quom primus primus �ther copulauit nuptias,
> > Ut pater totis crearet uernis annum nubibus:
> > In sinum maritus imber fluxit alm� coniugis,
> > Unde fetus mixtus omnis omnis aleret magno corpore.
> > Ipsa uenas atque mente permeanti spiritu
> > Intus occultis gubernat procreatrix uiribus,
> > Perque coelum perque terras perque pontum subditum
> > Peruium sui tenorem seminali tramite
> > Inbuit iusstque mundum nosse nascendi uias.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ipsa Troianos nepotes in Latinos transtulit:
> > Ipsa Laurentem puellam coniugem nato dedit,
> > Moxque Marti de sacello dat pudicam uirginem:
> > Romuleas ipsa fecit cum Sabinis nuptias
> > Unde Ramnes et Quirites proque prole posterum
> > Romuli matrem crearet et nepotem C�sarem;
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Rura fecundat uoluptas, rura Venerem sentiunt;
> > Ipse Amor, puer Dion�, rure natus dicitur.
> > Hunc, ager cum parturiret, ipsa suscepit sinu:
> > Ipsa florum delicatis educauit osculis.
> >
> > Cras amet qui numquam amauit quique amauit cras amet.
> >
> > Ecce iam subter genestas explicant agni latus,
> > Quisque tutus quo tenetur coniugali foedere.
> > Subter umbras cum maritis ecce balantum greges:
> > Et canoras non tacere diua iussit alites.
> > Iam loquaces ore rauco stagna cygni perstrepunt:
> > Adsonat Terei puella subter umbram populi,
> > Ut putes motus amoris ore dici musico,
> > Et neges queri sororem de marito barbaro.
> > Illa cantat, nos tacemus. Quando uer uenit meum?
> > Quando fiam uti chelidon, ut tacere desinam?
> > Perdidi Musam tacendo, nec me Phoebus respicit.
> > Sic Amyclas, cum tacerent, perdidit silentium.
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > Amoribus vestris Venus faveat.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a.d. XVI Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo C. Petronio Dextro Latinistis
> optimis suís quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Gaudeo tales disputationes hoc in foro videre! Mihi magnopere placet. In
> libro Allen and Greenough, si inspicietis § 485.a, haec videbitis: (quote)
> The Perfect Indicative is ordinarily a secondary tense, but allows the primary
> sequence when the present time is clearly in the writer¹s mind: ... est enim
> res iam in eum locum adducta, ut quamquam multum intersit inter eorum causas
> qui dimicant, tamen inter victorias non multum interfuturum putem (Fam. V.
> 21. 3). (end quote). Gildersleeve and González Lodge similia apud § 512
> scripsisse videntur, sed illi nonnulla magis implicité dicunt, nec omnia
> enodare facile est.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> Lentulus Dextro sal.
>
> Sed priusquam docebis, permitte quaeso ut te aliquid ipse doceam. Si verbo in
> tempore praesenti perfecto ("decrevi") uteris, eoque ita uteris ut sensum
> logicum suum (actum perfectum in praesenti tempore) spectes neque sensum suum
> praeteritum, modo coniunctivo (subiunctivo, ut alii dicunt) praesenti tibi
> licet, non solum licet sed decet uti.
>
> --- Mar 16/2/10, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...
> <mailto:jfarnoud94%40yahoo.fr> > ha scritto:
>
> Da: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... <mailto:jfarnoud94%40yahoo.fr> >
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin lesson was (EDict V CFBQ, Appointment of
> Assisting Latinist)
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Data: Martedì 16 febbraio 2010, 19:39
>
>  
>
> Salvete latinistae primae decuriae!
>
> Mihi licet ut vos consecutionem temporum doceam:
>
>> > Latinista Primus meus Cn. Cornelius Lentulus et ego in verbis ex
>
>> > Anglico in Latinum transferendis adiumento egemus, itaque decrevi ut
>
>> > Latinistam Adiutorem qui Latinistam Primum Cn. Cornelium Lentulum
>
>> > adiuvet creem.
>
> Oportebat enim scribere:
>
> "decrevi ut ... crearem qui... adjuvaret".
>
> Cras vos constructionem ad sensum docebo. ;o)
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
> Arcoiali scribebat
>
> a.d. XIV Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cato Popilliae Laenae sal.
>
> Ahem, Cato...Popillia is a friend of Lentulus, and of the female
> persuasion. Laena is a kind of cloak... C. Popillius Laenas appears to be
> male, and his cognomen is declined like that of Maecenas: Maecenas,
> Maecenatis, Maecenati, Maecenatem, Maecenate, so we need Laenati for the
> dative here, and Popillio for the nomen. Please let us get these gender
> issues resolved; Latin grammar requires this, whether or not you (or anyone
> else) likes it. Popilliae is the dative of a feminine noun; Popillio is the
> dative of a masculine one.
>
> Woot! Welcome home! Would you have it any other way?
>
> ATS: Plus ça change, plus c¹est la même chose. Bienvenue!
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
>
>> > Salvete,
>> >
>> > A little less than a year and things don't see to have changed much ;-)
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > C. Popillius Laenas
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> "Cato"
>> > <catoinnyc@> wrote:
>> >
>>> >> Cato Dextero sal.
>>> >>
>>> >> Under what law does she have the authority to "issue warnings"? Please
>>> cite
>>> >> the specific law or edict that exists allowing her to do so.
>>> >>
>>> >> Vale,
>>> >>
>>> >> Cato
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> >> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
>>> >>
>>>> >>> Dexter Catoni sal.,
>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> Anyway, officially you cannot issue "warnings",
>>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> She can officially do it, of course. As moderator of the list, she
>>>> gives
>>>> >>> Sulla a warning. Sexual slang is not allowed. Moreover when Sulla put
>>>> his
>>>> >>> fantasies to explain things that he does not understand.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Not only Sulla shows to everybody that he has a crass ignorance about
>>>> >>> Antiquity but also he has a bad language. To restore the level of our
>>>> forum
>>>> >>> against a such rude individual, this warning is a very good thing.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Optime vale.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> C. Petronius Dexter Arcoiali scribebat a.d. XV Kalendas Martias P.
>>>> Memmio K.
>>>> >>> Fabio II coss.
>>>> >>>
>>> >>
>> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sumus

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Martias; haec dies nefastus piaculum est: Quirino in colle

"Romulus, O Romulus, may You eternally live in Heaven among the children of the Gods" ~ Ennius Annales I.121

QUIRINALIA
The festival of Quirinalia was conducted atop the Quirinal Hill at the Temple of Quirinus; Quirino in colle. There were two Temples of Quirinus on the Quirinal. The second one was dedicated on 29 June 293 BCE. The earlier one, whose dedication is celebrated at Quirinalia, dates to some unknown time period. There had been a sacellum Quirini in colle, which is mentioned in the Gallic sack of Rome in 390 BCE. The Temple, dedicated in 293 BCE, may have replaced this sacellum. However, with regard to the rites held on the Quirinalia, we know nothing.

We can only speculate. Two days earlier, at Lupercalia, on 15th February, the Luperci were seen running a circuit in the performance of an ancient foot race. The Palatine Hill had its Luperci Quinctii; the Quirinal matched the Palatine with its own Luperci Fabii. Did the Quirinalia see the Luperci Fabii perform a purification rite?

Since festivals were almost always placed on odd numbered days to ensure good fortune, some two day festivals were separated by an even numbered day for that very reason, it is therefore possible that the Quirinalia once involved a running of Luperci Fabii as the Lupercalia saw the Luperci Quinctii. Varro does say that the Lupercalia was earlier called Februatio, "Festival of Purification," and only later came to be called Lupercalia after the running of the Luperci priests. However, there is nothing in the records to indicate such purification rite took place at Quirinalia It may be that the role of Luperici for the Quirinalia was overlooked or taken for granted by our sources, or that the practice had fallen out of use by the Late Republic. If there was not some comparable running of the Luperici, then it is difficult to account for the Quirinal having had its own collegium of Luperci. And if these Luperci Fabii performed a ritual purification, then it is a reasonable assumption that they would have done so during the month of purification.

The Quirinal also had its own company of Salii, just as did the Palatine with its Salii Palatii. The Salii Agonenses bear a very early name for a part of the Quirinal Hill; i. e. Colle Agonus. There stood the porta Aginensis. Augustinus of Hippo claimed that there was a God named Agonius (Civ. Dei 4.11.26), which may be a later invention used to explain these names and also the "Agon" found on the old Roman calendar. Or Agonius may have been an early deity of the Sabine city on the Quirinalia in the time of Titus Tatius. Or it could be a God called Agonius with whom Quirinus came to be identified while He was introduced from the Palatine Hill, or that Quirinus, after arriving on the Quirinal, was later given the name Agonensis because His temple was placed on the Agonius Hill before it became identified with Him. None of the ideas connecting Quirinus with an Agonius or with the Colle Agonus have any basis, and they amount to the same thing. What they have in common is an idea that Quirinus was introduced to Rome relatively early and this may not be true.

The reference to an earlier Quirinus comes from a much later source that mentions a sacullum Quirini in colle. We cannot know how creditable a source it may be. There has never been found on the Quirinal the remains of a temple, sacullum, or fanum that can be identified with Quirinus as those mentioned in our sources. What we can know with some certainty is that Quirinus came to be identified with Romulus very late in the fourth century. At this time, following the sack of Rome and with Gallic incursions elsewhere into Italy, Latin and Italic tribes began to adopt Homeric heroes as ancestral progenitors. The Sabines took their origin from a Spartan. The Romans came to play with the Greek myths that had Creusa as the Mother of the Spartans while the first wife of Aeneas at Troy was a woman named Creusa. Thus the Sabines, descended from a Spartan in Italy, and the Latins, descended from the son of Aeneas whose mother was Creusa, were at once held as opponents in the Trojan War just as they had been in the early history of Rome and joined together in Heroic mythology as they were in legend. The Marsi adopted a son of Ulysses, by Circe, as their mythological ancestor. Other tribes did likewise, and we are told that at Rome certain families also adopted Homeric heroes into their ancestors, most notably the Iulii whose lime was traced to the mythical Alba Longa. In the fourth century it was the other Latin cities that identified King Latinus of Aeneid legend with Jupiter Latiaris of the feriae Latinae on Mount Albano, Iulus of Alba Longa with Ascanius, son of Aeneas and Creusa, and at Lavinium saw Aeneas identified with Jupiter Indiges.

It is only after Rome finally defeated the Latin League in 338 BCE that Rome began to adopt some of these legends as their own. Just as Rome took the residents of Lanuvium in as Citizens of Rome and its city deity, Juno Sospita, into the Roman pantheon, the Romans adopted Aeneas into its legendary ancestry. At Lavinium it is Rome that rebuilds the Latin sanctuary of thirteen altars after 338 BCE. Only 328 feet away, hardly 100 meters, an ancient grave was built up by the Romans into the heroon of Aeneas. The burial itself dates to the mid-seventh century, from the pottery left during the burial ritual. Inside the tomb were found the man's spear and sword. Also found was the lituus of an augur, suggesting the importance of the man. Any valuable the tomb may have once had were stolen by intruders a century later. By the time that the Romans came upon it the tomb was seriously deteriorated. About 304 BCE the tumulus was built up over the tomb. Facing the path to the Sanctuary of Thirteen Altars, a portico had been placed in space cut into the tumulus. The portico was itself enclosed behind a short wall in the manner of enclosing a fanum. Behind the portico is found a false door in stone that seal a chamber. The chamber itself is roughly four times the size of the original tomb, and one corner of the chamber disturbs the tomb. It was in this chamber that offering were left during the dedication ceremony, among which are the examples of pottery that date the dedication to just before 300 BCE. In the time of Cato the Elder there were legends of how Aeneas had vanished and no tombs were to be found (Ap. Servius, Ad Aeneis 4.620). Around 150 years after Cato, the heroon of Aeneas at Lavinium is described:

"It is an earth affair, not large, and around it trees are set out in rows: well worth seeing." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus 1.64.5

It has to be after this time when Rome accepted Aeneas as a legendary ancestor of the Latins that Romulus, coming from the city founded by Ascanius, and directly descended from this son of Aeneas, was then tied into such Homeric origins. The Temple of Quirinus that was dedicated later, in 293 BCE, certainly brought this idea of a deified Romulus to the Quirinal as Quirinus. There is nothing to suggest differently than that the Luperci Fabii, the Salii quirinales, the temples, sacullum, and locus of Quirinus on the Quirinal all arrived in the same era, between the mid-Fourth and mid-Third centuries. There seems to have been some memory of an earlier community on the Quirinal. It was identified as Sabine, although the early graves on the Quirinal from the 7th century are indistinguishable for gravesites in the Forum and on the Palatine. There is nothing distinguishing a Sabine grave from a Latin grave. The "Latinization" of the Quirinal, with the introduction of Quirinus, of Juno Lucina, of the complex of nearby temples related to women and health, does indeed represent an expanse of the "Latin" city centered on the Palatine, but this then might be explained by the reconstruction foloowing the Gallic sack, and the resettling of Latins as Citizens of Rome during the Latin Wars that followed. Notions that these shrines upon the Quirinal and the rites they represent date to the foundations of the religio Romana may be true, if we understand that such an origin concerns the religio Romana as it was restored following the Gallic sack, from which arose the religio Romana that we know from our first century sources, whose own writings were based on works no earlier than the fourth century. It is when we start to see the "Numa Tradition," said to have been restored following the Gallic sack, as instead originating in this period of reconstruction, that myths and legends on Quirinus begin to (very roughly) correlate with archaeology evidence. Then maybe we can offer better speculation on what the Quirinalia and its festivities may have involved.


Deification of Romulus:

"Tatius died, and you, Romulus, gave orders equally to both peoples. Mars, removing his helmet, addressed the father of gods and men in these words: 'The time has come, lord, to grant the reward (that you promised to me and your deserving grandson), since the Roman state is strong, on firm foundations, and does not depend on a single champion: free his spirit, and raising him from earth set him in the heavens. You once said to me, in person, at a council of the gods (since I am mindful of the gracious words I noted in my retentive mind), 'There will be one whom you will raise to azure heaven.' Let your words be ratified in full!'

"Omnipotent Jupiter nodded, and, veiling the sky with dark clouds, he terrified men on earth with thunder and lightning. Mars knew this as a sign that ratified the promised ascension, and leaning on his spear, he vaulted, fearlessly, into his chariot, the horses straining at the blood-wet pole, and cracked the loud whip. Dropping headlong through the air, he landed on the summit of the wooded Palatine. There he caught up Romulus, son of Ilia, as he was dealing royal justice to his people. The king's mortal body dissolved in the clear atmosphere, like the lead bullet, that often melts in mid-air, hurled by the broad thong of a catapult. Now he has beauty of form, and he is Quirinus, clothed in ceremonial robes, such a form as is worthier of the sacred high seats of the Gods." ~ Ovidius, Metamorphoses 14.805-828, A. S. Kline prose translation

Confusion concerning an identity of Quirinus comes from trying to sort out the various layers that were built on top of Him by the Romans. The problem comes along with the question of the origin of Rome itself. We have in Pliny a list of very early participants in the Feriai Latinae who were the populi Albenes. Among the list of thirty tribes are some that are recognizable from different Latin towns - Bola, Corioli, Fidenae, Pedum. (Pliny, N.H. III.69). Notably missing from the list are the major Latin cities of the historical period, among them Rome. Interesting are two names that suggests the inclusion of Latin communities on the Velia (the ridge running northeast from the Palatine to the Esquiline), and from the Caelian (Tacitus, Annuls IV.65.1). In the historical period we have the annual festival of the Septimontium on 11 Dec. in which the inhabitants of Germalus and Palatium (two summits of the Palatine), the Velia, the Caelian, and three spurs of the Esquiline (Oppius, Cispius, and Fagutal) participated (Festus pp.474-6 L; p.458). The Septimontium suggests which montes were occupied by Latin villages prior to unification, even prior to unification of the villages on the Palatine. Notable is the exclusion of the inhabitants of the Quirinal and Viminal. In contrast is the Agonalia, 9 Jan., which we know little or nothing about except that it seems to have been connected to the Quirinal (Collis Agonus being a traditional name of the Quirinal, as in its gate, the Portus Agonensis) (Ovid, Fasti, I. 325. Varro, L.L. 6.12). There are other divisions in Roman institutions which oppose the Palatine against the Quirinal, the montes opposed to the colles. The Salii were divided into two groups, the Salii Palatini associated with the Palatine and serving Mars, and the Salii Agonenses (or Salii Collini) associated with the Quirinal and serving Quirinus. There is also the division of the Luperci between two gens, the Luperci Quinctialis and Luperci Fabiani, the Fabii being closely associated with the Quirinal (Livy 5.46.2). In such ways the contrast in Roman institutions between Quirinus and Mars points to there having originally been two communities, Romulus' Latins on the Palatine and the Sabines under Titus Tatius on the Quirinal. Indeed this is what the legends of Rome record.


The Festival of Fools

Earlier in the month of February (11 Feb.) we looked at the moveable feast of Fornicalia. The Fornicalia was a festival of the curiones; that is, a sacrum publicum pro curiis. Offerings were placed on a table set before Juno Curitis, or Iuno Quiritis, "She who is armed with shield and spear." One who had failed to make his offerings at Fornicalia had then to go to the Forum on Quirinalia, wading through the crowds to find the booth for his own particular curia. The crowd swirling about him, everyone seemingly unaware of where they were going, for they, too, were all searching for their own curia's booth. In the Forum, down below the Hills, then on this day was what was called "the Festival of Fools," feriae stultorum.


The thought for the day comes from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 10.2-3:

"Observe what thy nature requires, so far as thou art governed by nature only: then do it and accept it, if thy nature, so far as thou art a living being, shall not be made worse by it.

"And next thou must observe what thy nature requires so far as thou art a living being. And all this thou mayest allow thyself, if thy nature, so far as thou art a rational animal, shall not be made worse by it. But the rational animal is consequently also a political (social) animal. Use these rules, then, and trouble thyself about nothing else."

================================================================
explorator 12.42 February 14, 2010
================================================================
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For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
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================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, Diana Wright, Donna Hurst,
Edward Rockstein, Rick Heli, Kurt Theis, David Perlmutter,
John McMahon, Joseph Lauer, Caroline Lawrence, Mike Ruggeri,
Rochelle Altman, Stan Nadel, Rick Pettigrew, Ray Laurence,
and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses this week (as always
hoping I have left no one out).
================================================================
EARLY HUMANS
================================================================
On the Neanderthal front this week, the big question is about the
ethics of cloning them (!):

http://www.archaeology.org/1003/etc/neanderthals.html
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/10/scientists-clone-neanderthals
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2010/02/the_rise_of_the_neo-neandertal.php
http://www.physorg.com/news185091636.html

On the antiquity of the steak dinner (apparently):

http://news.discovery.com/animals/earliest-bull-beef-fossil.html
================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
Nice feature on the Avenue of the Sphinxes (the classicist in
me keeps wanting to type Sphinges):

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2010/985/he1.htm

A report of 27 cuneiform tablets being found in Syria:

http://www.littleabout.com/news/67161,27-cuneiform-tablets-2500-bc-unearthed-syria.html
http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201002064686/Travel/archaeological-findings-cuneiform-tablets-seals-and-tombs-unearthed-in-syria.html

Overviewish thing on recent finds in Damascus:

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201002094718/Travel/archaeological-discoveries-in-damascus-show-depth-and-diversity-of-civilizations.html

Plenty of attention for a Byzantine street find in Jerusalem
(made via an ancient 'map'):

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=168385
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/10/international/i031932S77.DTL
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/90873/6893257.html
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6801154/archeologists-uncover-ancient-jerusalem-street/
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/02/11/jerusalem.ancient.road.discovery/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Israel+beyond+politics/Main-road-from-the-Byzantine-period-exposed-10-Feb-2010.htm?DisplayMode=print
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1148845.html
http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=azcentral&sParam=32767165.story
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/culture/2010-02/10/c_13171507.htm
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i-XVFM5d0-lH5KKC2d3ySM4x9_7AD9DP9CG03
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/byzantine-street-jerusalem-old-city.html
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100210/science/science_ml_israel_ancient_street_1
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100210/tsc-archaeologists-find-1-500-year-old-j-c2ff8aa.html
http://www.physorg.com/news185028452.html
http://www.antiquities.org.il/about_eng.asp?Modul_id=14
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135956
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gtUeR8Y4IddYBj5Jc0DPVdSNvSAw
http://www.ottawasun.com/news/world/2010/02/10/12820361.html
Vague report of an 'archaeological cave dating to the Roman era' in
Syria:

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201002114765/Related-news-from-Syria/archaeological-cave-dating-back-to-the-roman-era-unearthed-in-syria.html

Remains of a 7th century village on the Arabian Gulf:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1%c2%a7ion=0&article=132632&d=9&m=2&y=2010
http://www.eturbonews.com/14326/saudi-arabia-announces-new-archeological-finding

Feature on Ottoman 'Istanbul':

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8512512.stm

On the problems associated with Jerusalem's Old City walls:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=1149348

... and the latest on the Mughrabi Ramp dispute:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/180007

More hype for the Tut DNA tests (coming Wednesday, apparently):

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/csi-cairo-how-science-will-solve-the-mystery-of-tutankhamun-1899050.html

Review of Joel Hoffman, *And God Said*:

http://www.jpost.com/ArtsAndCulture/Books/Article.aspx?id=168442

Egyptology News Blog:

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/

Egyptology Blog:

http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/

Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:

http://blog.ritmeyer.com/

Paleojudaica:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

Persepolis Fortification Archives:

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

Archaeologist at Large:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
Heavy rains have revealed some Hellenistic tombs near Gonous:

http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=8409617&maindocimg=8409608&service=144

Remains of a dead Roman revealed in an xray:

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/Urn-X-ray-picks-Roman-s-remains/article-1823330-detail/article.html

Much attention for the effort to save Colchester Circus:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/10/2815020.htm?section=world
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/race-is-on-to-save-site-of-roman-chariot-track-1892255.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6181LF20100209
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/07/roman-circus-track-colchester
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED07%20Feb%202010%2022%3A46%3A06%3A020
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/4891284.Talk_to_boost_Roman_circus/?ref=rss

cf:

http://www.camulos.com/circus/circus3.htm

... and the Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?src=fftb#!/group.php?gid=221021832628&ref=ts

On the utility of Classics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/books/review/Letters-t-IPSOFACTO_LETTERS.html



Brief item on some epigraphical items from Peperikon:

http://paper.standartnews.com/en/article.php?d=2010-02-13&article=32196

Barbara Gold on ancient romance:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100213/sc_livescience/valentinesinancientromewereallaboutpain

Mary Beard will be talking about gambling:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=410349&c=1

They're going to set up a Classics association in Malta:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100207/education/reviving-our-roots

Some early reactions to Percy Jackson:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/feb/14/philip-french-percy-jackson-lightning-thief

Reviews of Mason, *The Lost Books of the Odyssey*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/books/review/Mansbach-t.html
http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/arts/84162797.html

... cf a profile of Mason:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/books/10mason.html

Review of Mason's tome and Malouf's *Ransom*:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703630404575053752560289226.html

... and a related 'Virgil Strikes Back' piece:

http://papercuts.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/virgil-strikes-back/

More on that Asian skeleton from Vagnari:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/7190020/Asian-skeleton-found-in-ruins-suggests-Roman-Empire-larger-than-thought.html
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10624760&ref=rss

Review of Barry Strauss, *The Spartacus War*:

http://jacksonville.com/lifestyles/2010-02-14/story/review_the_spartacus_war

Review of *Conspirata*:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123580156

Latest reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/

Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
DNA tests on a 4000 years b.p. man from Greenland suggest he had
(among other things) baldness issues:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123567603&ft=1&f=1007
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/science/11genome.html
http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_14373472
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6788829/ancient-greenland-gene-map-has-a-surprise/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100210/ap_on_sc/us_sci_ancient_dna
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre6195h7-us-human-genes/

... while some coverage is emphasizing the implications of this for
new world migration:

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/56213/title/Ancient_DNA_points_to_additional_New_World_migration
http://www.usnews.com/articles/science/2010/2/11/ancient-dna-points-to-additional-new-world-migration.html?s_cid=rss:ancient-dna-points-to-additional-new-world-migration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8506080.stm
http://www.physorg.com/news185026955.html
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100210/tsc-go-east-young-man-greenland-was-colo-c2ff8aa.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123567603
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=123567603
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/science/11genome.html
A Bronze Age shipwreck off the Devon coast:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/archeology/7228108/Bronze-Age-shipwreck-found-off-Devon-coast.html

The other half of an Iron Age bracelet found back in 2005 has been
found:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8508936.stm

Latest facial recreation is a Mary Rose crewman:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8508258.stm

A huge statue recovered from the HMS Colossus has been restored:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8511696.stm

Feature on the Lacher See caldera:

http://scienceblogs.com/eruptions/2010/02/laacher_see_the_caldera_in_the.php

More on Stonehenge 'hedge':

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100211-stonehenge-stonehedge-secret-rituals/

... and the latest salvo fired at the visitors centre:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/feb/07/stonehenge-city-garden-visitor-centre

Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://www.archaeology.eu.com/weblog/index.html
================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
A survey has revealed some 700km more of China's Great Wall (!)
... something amiss in translation here I think:

http://www.calcuttanews.net/story/599685
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/regional/2010-02/09/content_9452939.htm
http://www.asiapacificnews.net/story/599685

Remains of a drainage system near Bayon Temple (Cambodia):

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2010/02/11/1361s549794.htm

A 'mythological hiding place' or something like that has been found
in Tezpur (India ... I'm not familiar with the backstory):

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100210/jsp/northeast/story_12084986.jsp

A Viaishnavaite temple find:

http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/08/stories/2010020853140500.htm

A Maori canoe find:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/3303817/Canoe-unearthed-at-beach

Nice APOD of a sun halo at Angkor:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100208.html

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
Do the carvings in the 'scorpion tree' (California) have some
astronomical significance?:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1960661,00.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+time%2Fnation+%28TIME%3A+Top+Nation+Stories%29
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/ancient-tree-carving-points-to-the-stars.html

Theory that the 'rush for meteoric iron' spurred Inuit migration:

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Rush+iron+spurred+Inuit+ancestors+sprint+across+Arctic+book+contends/2538167/story.html

Challenge to the report that that mound in Alabama is 'natural':

http://annistonstar.com/bookmark/5852068

Feature on the Vero Man site and what's going on with it:

http://www.myhometownnews.net/index.php?id=66727

Skeletal remains found on Bald Head Island date to the 1800s:

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20100211/ARTICLES/100219933/1004?Title=Bones-found-on-Bald-Head-are-from-1800s-anthropologist-says

Latest video at the Archaeological Channel document the finding
of a pioneer woman burial at Castle Rock (Col.):

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/

Study on racial discrimination in Union Army pensions:

http://www.physorg.com/news185041820.html

Folks might be interested in the 'Faces of America' tv series:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/arts/television/10faces.html

Pondering the faith of the Founding Fathers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14texbooks-t.html

Bill O'Reilly is working on a biography of Lincoln:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/11/arts/AP-US-Books-Bill-OReilly.html

More on turkey domestication:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/science/09obgobble.html
================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
A pre-Panama-canal link between Atlantic and Pacific?:

http://www.newkerala.com/news/fullnews-50538.html

I think we mentioned these Rapa Nui caves before:

http://www.santiagotimes.cl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18154:new-book-reveals-secrets-of-easter-islands-caves&catid=26:tourism-industry&Itemid=48

More on those 'mysterious' Amazon civilization remains:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/video.cfm?id=65644772001

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:

http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

Ancient MesoAmerica News:

http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
================================================================
OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
================================================================
Nice oped piece on why palaeography matters:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/feb/09/writing-off-last-palaeographer-university

... while Sussex University is making some controversial cuts too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7215895/History-of-England-starts-at-1700-says-university.html

Why humans walk 'flat-footed':

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100212/sc_livescience/whyhumanswalkflatfooted
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7213423/We-evolved-to-walk-on-heels-in-order-to-save-energy-while-out-hunter-gathering.html

Solving a 16th century Italian murder mystery:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100211/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_italy_mystery_life

Last of the Valentine's Day stuff (mostly 'reactionary'!):

http://www.cardinalcourieronline.com/home/news/2010/02/10/Viewpoint/Valentines.Day.Is.A.Corporate.Scam-3868997.shtml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/11/AR2010021104554.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
http://hometownstation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19282:valentines-day-history-2010-02-09-16-07&catid=26:local-news&Itemid=97
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100210-valentines-day-gifts-cards-history-facts/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/relationships/valentines-day/7187784/History-of-Valentines-Day.html

... although you might want to try an 1881 chocolate caramel recipe
on this chocolate infested day:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14food-t-000.html

Identifying a stereoscopic photographer:

http://www.physorg.com/news185192592.html

Whence dat? Whence dat? Whence the fleur-de-lys?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/sports/football/07fleurdelis.html

On the expansion of AP tests:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/education/11college.html

On a Faulkner influence:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/books/11faulkner.html

Interesting item on saving an ancient language:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/bringing-back-life-ancient-language/20100207

The demographics of archaeology at Princeton:

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2010/02/09/25077/

A new rc calibration curve:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-02/qub-qhp021110.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100211111549.htm

Interesting review of a translation of Vis and Ramin:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100211/REVIEW/702119994/1008

More on Antarctic whiskey:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8499931.stm

On the Dreadnought Hoax:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/archive/permalink/dreadnought_hoax/

Review of Timothy Ferris, *The Science of Liberty*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/books/review/Rosen-t.html

Review of Michael Shelden, *Mark Twain*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/books/11book.html

Review of Jerry Muller, *Capitalism and the Jews*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/books/review/Rampell-t.html

Review of the Dante's Inferno video game:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/arts/television/09inferno.html
================================================================
TOURISTY THINGS
================================================================
Athens:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/activityandadventure/7158619/Classics-in-Athens-Get-your-kicks-activity-breaks.html

Turkey's Ancient Sites:

http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=201449
================================================================
BLOGS AND PODCASTS
================================================================
About.com Archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/

Archaeology Briefs:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/

Naked Archaeology Podcast:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/archaeology/

Taygete Atlantis excavations blogs aggregator:

http://planet.atlantides.org/taygete/
================================================================
CRIME BEAT AND TRIALS
================================================================
An Italian court has ordered the Getty to return the 'Victorious
Youth' to Italy:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36215
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2010/02/the-judges-ruling-in-the-getty-bronze-case.html

>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100211/ap_on_en_ot/eu_italy_disputed_statue_6
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/3320376/Italy-to-seize-US-museum-statue
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/europe/8511873.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/7216550/Italian-court-demands-Getty-Museum-return-ancient-statue.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61A4M920100211
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j0hdatAbyHnmTh75efpMbhLWJo2g
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=9807719
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gLU-AXYE-LjzxClS0C-Y2TlGHsUw
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/getty-bronze-must-be-returned-to-italy-judge-rules

A number of items purloined from Iraq were seized at the Dubai
airport:

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100211/NATIONAL/702109864/1010

Knidos has been the target of some illegal excavations:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=knidos-antik-kenti-define-avcilarinin-hedefi-oldu-2010-02-10

Looting Matters:

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/
================================================================
NUMISMATICA
================================================================
Feature on the Bishop's Wood Hoard of Roman coins:

http://news.coinupdate.com/the-bishops-wood-hoard-of-roman-coins-0145/

A Bristol metal detectorist found a couple of sixpence and a
shilling:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Bristol-treasure-hunter-strikes-lucky-silver-sixpence/article-1812664-detail/article.html

Ancient Coin Collecting:

http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins:

http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

Coin Link:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
================================================================
Confucius:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36248

Felix Vallotton:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/arts/design/12galleries.html

Lincoln and New York:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/arts/08arts-RARELINCOLNI_BRF.html

Treasures of Medieval York:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/5003640.York_treasures_go_on_show_in_London/

Michael Wood is unveiling the Staffordshire Hoard:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36145
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2010/feb/09/staffordshire-hoard-anglo-saxon-potteries

Ancient Greece:

http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36190
http://www.clickliverpool.com/culture/culture/127928-ancient-greece-exhibition-at-liverpool-world-museum.html

Townley Discobolus:

http://www.balkantravellers.com/en/read/article/1747
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=roman-statue-to-be-on-display-in-istanbul-2010-02-09

Levine Museum of the New South:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/arts/design/13museum.html

More on Iran's cutting of ties with the BM:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36153
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/08/AR2010020801387.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/iran-to-cut-ties-with-british-museum-in-artifact-spat/article1460067/
http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/d6f35e626ac744d08754cbdb677d1fc6/08-02-2010-07-08/Iran_set_to_cut_museum_ties
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=a9P9EejtXtpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7183364/Iran-severs-cultural-ties-with-British-Museum-over-Persian-treasure.html
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100207/world/iran_britain_art_culture_history_museum_1
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7018531.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

Canterbury's Roman Museum is in peril:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/news/canterburys-roman-museum-could-fall-victim-to-the-credit-crunch-1892883.html

cf:

http://savecanterburysmuseums.wordpress.com/

... on Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=324602220774&ref=search&sid=516723052.413019608..1&v=info

... online petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Museums1/petition.html

Interesting story attached to a Roman marble coming to auction
next week:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=36166

Concerns about new screening rules which will affect art shipments:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/arts/design/13transport.html

Assorted antiques items of interest:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/arts/design/12antiques.html (Red Cross)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/arts/design/12antiques.html (Tiffany
windows)
================================================================
PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
================================================================
Medea:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/theatre/article7022269.ece
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/reviews/medea-oxford-playhouse-oxford-1895574.html
http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/leisure/4999673.Medea__Northern_Broadsides__The_Oxford_Playhouse/

Orestes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/07/AR2010020702701.html

Juilliard Baroque:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/arts/music/09baroque.html

Royal Shakespeare Company is coming to New York:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/02/08/arts/AP-US-Theater-Royal-Shakespeare-Company.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/theater/09shakespeare.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/11/theater/11armory.html (opinion)
================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
Michael Goulder:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article7022315.ece
================================================================
PODCASTS
================================================================
The Book and the Spade:

http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm

The Dig:

http://www.thedigradio.com/

Stone Pages Archaeology News:

http://news.stonepages.com/

Archaeologica Audio News:

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp
================================================================
EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
charge!
================================================================
Useful Addresses
================================================================
Past issues of Explorator are available on the web via our
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To subscribe to Explorator, send a blank email message to:

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================================================================
Explorator is Copyright (c) 2010 David Meadows. Feel free to
distribute these listings via email to your pals, students,
teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. These
links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
by direct posting or snagging from a usenet group or some other
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is only right that I be made aware of public fora which are
making use of content gathered in Explorator. Thanks!
================================================================

Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment.

Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

I *knew* there was something wrong after I pressed "send"...

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Popilliae Laenae sal.
> >
> > Ahem, Cato...Popillia is a friend of Lentulus, and of the female
> > persuasion. Laena is a kind of cloak... C. Popillius Laenas appears to be
> > male, and his cognomen is declined like that of Maecenas: Maecenas,
> > Maecenatis, Maecenati, Maecenatem, Maecenate, so we need Laenati for the
> > dative here, and Popillio for the nomen. Please let us get these gender
> > issues resolved; Latin grammar requires this, whether or not you (or anyone
> > else) likes it. Popilliae is the dative of a feminine noun; Popillio is the
> > dative of a masculine one.
> >
> > Woot! Welcome home! Would you have it any other way?
> >
> > ATS: Plus ça change, plus c¹est la même chose. Bienvenue!
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> >
> >> > Salvete,
> >> >
> >> > A little less than a year and things don't see to have changed much ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Valete,
> >> >
> >> > C. Popillius Laenas
> >> >
> >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> >> "Cato"
> >> > <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> >> Cato Dextero sal.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Under what law does she have the authority to "issue warnings"? Please
> >>> cite
> >>> >> the specific law or edict that exists allowing her to do so.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Vale,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Cato
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> >>> >> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> Dexter Catoni sal.,
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>> Anyway, officially you cannot issue "warnings",
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>> She can officially do it, of course. As moderator of the list, she
> >>>> gives
> >>>> >>> Sulla a warning. Sexual slang is not allowed. Moreover when Sulla put
> >>>> his
> >>>> >>> fantasies to explain things that he does not understand.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Not only Sulla shows to everybody that he has a crass ignorance about
> >>>> >>> Antiquity but also he has a bad language. To restore the level of our
> >>>> forum
> >>>> >>> against a such rude individual, this warning is a very good thing.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Optime vale.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> C. Petronius Dexter Arcoiali scribebat a.d. XV Kalendas Martias P.
> >>>> Memmio K.
> >>>> >>> Fabio II coss.
> >>>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Petronius Liviae s.p.d.,

> Plurimas gratias tibi ago!

Nil refert. I knew this poem when I was a young student and I was touched by its modern form and spirit.

> I have to confess I only understood a third of this, but it's beautiful, and I will save it for future reference.

As you read French, you have a translation here, with the scansion of the Latin verses :
http://bcs.fltr.ucl.ac.be/perven/pvlat_trad-2.htm

But some words of this version are different. Anyway it is a positive song of love. Venus indeed is an inspiring goddess.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XIII Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

I agree. It's the same thing in Spanish. It's not a question of being demeaning to women. It's a question of speaking the language properly. As an example, if you called a female professor "Profesor" instead of "Profesora", people would most likely laugh at you for your ignorance of the language and perhaps a few would try to correct you. Certainly, the female professor would not demand that you refer to her by the same title as you would address a male professor because it's not the way the language is spoken and she would know that.
Now, in English, we have no gender distinction. As an example, you can use either "actor" to refer to both male and female actors, but you would certainly use "actress" only for the female. Some female actors have no problem with being described as "actresses" while others would prefer to be refered to as "actors". That's personal preference.
However, with regard to titles, it's whatever is appropriate. Female senators are called "Senator" same as the men, but if we ever had a female president, she would be referred to as "Madam President" and not "Mister President".
Since Latin has gender distinction, you need to use it to speak the language properly. That's all there is to it. Let's not make a political mountain out of a linguistic molehill.
 
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina 
 
 

<<--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
Lentulus Catoni sal.

>>> Maior, "praetrix" is not an actual Roman official's title. <<<

The office is actually neither praetor, nor praetrix, but "praetura".

Amice C. Cato, please: "praetrix" and "praetor" are the same word, as I pointed out earlier, and Scholastica, Petronius did it as well. When you say praetrix, you say she, the praetor. It's a gender agreeing variant of the word. Are you saying that "he" and "she" are not the same word? Not all languages have this distinction, my language, Hungarian doesn't. To you it is acceptable to say praetor for a woman because you are Anglophone, but to say "he" for a woman will not be acceptable, because it just seem plain silliness. To me (as my language doesn't differentiate between genders nor even in he or she) it is acceptable to say both "praetor" and "he" for a woman, because my language allows it.

Well, Latin does not allow either of these ways. To someone who knows Latin, when you, an Anglophone say praetor for a woman it is just when I, a Hungarian say "he" for a woman.

To illustrate it more:

ENGLISH HUNGARIAN LATIN
male physician orvos medicus
female physician orvos medica
male teacher tanár magister
female teacher tanár magistra
male he Å‘ ille
female she Å‘ illa
male praetor praetor praetor
female praetor praetor praetrix

You can see, three languages handle all differently. Hungarian doesn't have genders at all. English has gender only in the personal pronouns "he" and "she". Latin has genders in all kinds of words.

In English, you are entitled to use what your English native instinct tells you. In Hungarian, when talking with Hungarian Nova Romans, I call Hortensia praetor too, sometimes, but I try to mix more Latin in my speech, so sometimes I call her praetrix in Hungarian, too, but that is not something that is required by my Hungarian grammar, but an effort to sound more Latin. That honours Rome.

The same way, you don't have to call her praetrix in English, but you can, if you want to show you learned some Latin and you know something about Latin nouns expressing genders with the endings of words. When speaking in English, it is not obligatory, but a nice effort for proper Latin.

If you can accept that to address a woman "praetrix" in Latin is the same as addressing a woman with "she" in English, you have understood what I wanted to explain.

Don't turn it into something political.

This is not something that has to be researched in law: it's natural, it's language.

And finally, let me emphasize again, that you as an English speaker are entitled to use praetor for a woman. But once you've learned that the more Latin form is praetrix, and you respect Romans who spoke Latin, and the praetrix herself prefers to be addressed that way, why on Earth would argue against the usage of this form?>>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Messallina et Omnes;
yes, I really am suprised by the fuss. Romance languages have gender just like Latin, because they come from Latin. One of the points of Nova Roma is to bring back Latin as our first language, allowing us to speak to cives in South America, Japan, Africa, Europe. What a wonderful thing to unite us!
Using Latin titles like praetor, praetrix is a gentle way to get people used to Latin. To accustom themselves to Roman ways of thought and culture.

Maybe we should re-start an easy and fun Latin conversation thread.
vale
Maior

>
> I agree. It's the same thing in Spanish. It's not a question of being demeaning to women. It's a question of speaking the language properly. As an example, if you called a female professor "Profesor" instead of "Profesora", people would most likely laugh at you for your ignorance of the language and perhaps a few would try to correct you. Certainly, the female professor would not demand that you refer to her by the same title as you would address a male professor because it's not the way the language is spoken and she would know that.
> Now, in English, we have no gender distinction. As an example, you can use either "actor" to refer to both male and female actors, but you would certainly use "actress" only for the female. Some female actors have no problem with being described as "actresses" while others would prefer to be refered to as "actors". That's personal preference.
> However, with regard to titles, it's whatever is appropriate. Female senators are called "Senator" same as the men, but if we ever had a female president, she would be referred to as "Madam President" and not "Mister President".
> Since Latin has gender distinction, you need to use it to speak the language properly. That's all there is to it. Let's not make a political mountain out of a linguistic molehill.
>  
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina 
>  
>  
>
> <<--- On Mon, 2/15/10, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
> Lentulus Catoni sal.
>
> >>> Maior, "praetrix" is not an actual Roman official's title. <<<
>
> The office is actually neither praetor, nor praetrix, but "praetura".
>
> Amice C. Cato, please: "praetrix" and "praetor" are the same word, as I pointed out earlier, and Scholastica, Petronius did it as well. When you say praetrix, you say she, the praetor. It's a gender agreeing variant of the word. Are you saying that "he" and "she" are not the same word? Not all languages have this distinction, my language, Hungarian doesn't. To you it is acceptable to say praetor for a woman because you are Anglophone, but to say "he" for a woman will not be acceptable, because it just seem plain silliness. To me (as my language doesn't differentiate between genders nor even in he or she) it is acceptable to say both "praetor" and "he" for a woman, because my language allows it.
>
> Well, Latin does not allow either of these ways. To someone who knows Latin, when you, an Anglophone say praetor for a woman it is just when I, a Hungarian say "he" for a woman.
>
> To illustrate it more:
>
> ENGLISH HUNGARIAN LATIN
> male physician orvos medicus
> female physician orvos medica
> male teacher tanár magister
> female teacher tanár magistra
> male he Ã…` ille
> female she Ã…` illa
> male praetor praetor praetor
> female praetor praetor praetrix
>
> You can see, three languages handle all differently. Hungarian doesn't have genders at all. English has gender only in the personal pronouns "he" and "she". Latin has genders in all kinds of words.
>
> In English, you are entitled to use what your English native instinct tells you. In Hungarian, when talking with Hungarian Nova Romans, I call Hortensia praetor too, sometimes, but I try to mix more Latin in my speech, so sometimes I call her praetrix in Hungarian, too, but that is not something that is required by my Hungarian grammar, but an effort to sound more Latin. That honours Rome.
>
> The same way, you don't have to call her praetrix in English, but you can, if you want to show you learned some Latin and you know something about Latin nouns expressing genders with the endings of words. When speaking in English, it is not obligatory, but a nice effort for proper Latin.
>
> If you can accept that to address a woman "praetrix" in Latin is the same as addressing a woman with "she" in English, you have understood what I wanted to explain.
>
> Don't turn it into something political.
>
> This is not something that has to be researched in law: it's natural, it's language.
>
> And finally, let me emphasize again, that you as an English speaker are entitled to use praetor for a woman. But once you've learned that the more Latin form is praetrix, and you respect Romans who spoke Latin, and the praetrix herself prefers to be addressed that way, why on Earth would argue against the usage of this form?>>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Maior omnibus spd;

Stranger: Quid nomen tibi est?

quid= what
nomen= name
tibi = to you
est= is

Me: Ego sum Maior

ego= I
sum= am
Maior
so let's practice. Latin is hard, it's just taught in a way that makes it hard. When you speak it it is so much easier.
optime vale
Maior

Caeca omnibus S.P.D.

Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.

Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria Caeca.

Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeca Maori sal,

Gratias tibi ago. Yes, trial, and lots and *lots* of error, LOL, but always enjoyable. After all, I've been told I blush prettily, LOL!

Vale bene,
Caeca, who has *not* forgotten her little list. She's just been ...a bit busy with things Latin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete ( I hope that's correct)


Hello. I'm a new Nova Roman Citizen, Just added to the album civium. I have been following the ML list for a while and I rathe enjoy it. The friendly banter, not so friendly banter, the Roman oriented information from individuals and especially the messages from the pontifex maximus or maybe he's the augur but he is Marcus Moravius Horatius I think and never disappoints. But now I wish to go further, Is there anyone who could maybe show me around and introduce me the things they think a Roman citizens should be in the know about, maybe help me with latin which I'm fond of and can read some, but cannot yet speak. It would be greatly appreciated and I would be forever in that persons debt


Sincerly Gaius Iulius Calvinus

Caeca Calvino sal,

First and foremost, welcome to our Res Publica! Now, then (smile). Yes, Salvete is what you would use when addressing more than 1 person, so you are correct. Next, I have 2 immediate suggestions for you. First, there is a list dedicated to the care and nurturing of new citizens, replete with experts who can answer questions, explain things, encourage, and generally provide guidance and support until you get your bearings here. We are complex, and I, at least, found this list incredibly helpful when I first joined, and made some wonderful friends in the process. If you'd like to join that list, you can do so by sending an email to Newoman-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and take a look around.

Next, have you seen our WIKI? You'll find lots and lots and *lots* of goodies there, and half the fun is going to search for one thing, then getting distracted by several others. A great place in which to get lost! As to Latin, there is some info on the WIKI, such as material on Latin for emails, and, at least I hope, our Latin phrases material as well. If you want to study more seriously, we do have Latin courses, taught by our very own, and not only extremely capable but incredibly dedicated Magistra, A. Tullia Scholastica. Usually, registration for these opens in late summer, but she will need to provide information on *that*. There is, also, on the WIKI, information on some self study resources, in case you want to get a head start.

Have I given you enough to do? (grin). Again, welcome to NR, and I hope you find much to please and challenge you, here, but mostly, that you enjoy yourself with us!

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agricola Caecae sal.

We use "nomen mihi..." because it uses the "dative of reference". "mihi" is in the dative case, and a dative of reference is just that, it "refers" to something. So Latin is saying "the name that refers to me is..."

Let's think now what the possessive adjective implies. "nomen meum" (and here I am pulling the gender of "nomen", neuter, out of memories more than 30 years old, and pardon me if I am wrong), "the nomen that I possess". Well, that sounds OK to English speaking ears, but what about "the nomen that I own"? Would that be an acceptable implication? Probably not.

It happens that English uses the same form for ownership and reference. "My house", "my name". But Latin does not. Actually, I am not Latinist enough to say that no person at no time and under no circumstances and in no register of writing or speaking ever used the possessive adjective in this way. But it seems to be generally true.

The key to understanding this is to keep two things separate in your mind, and these are two things that one does not normally think about in one's native language. The two things are "form" and "function". English here uses one form for two functions and Latin has a different form for each function. Latin uses the dative form when the function is reference and a possessive form of some sort when the function is ownership.

So the art of translation is not from form to form (my name -/-> nomen meum) but from form to function to form (my name --> the name that refers to me --> nomen mihi).


Finally, to go back to the beginning of my note, I used the grammar term "dative of reference". This is a term of grammar that links the form "dative" and the function "reference". In a sense, learning a language comes down to that, mapping our familiar old functions onto new forms.

optime vale!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Caeca omnibus S.P.D.
>
> Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.
>
> Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria Caeca.
>
> Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Gratias tibi ago! I ad wondered about the use of the dative in this situation, but this explains it perfectly.

Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Julio Calvino quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salvete ( I hope that's correct)
>
> ATS: As Caeca told you, it is indeed correct. I have used a more formal
> greeting above, one which requires a greater knowledge of Latin grammar,
> especially since I added some extra material to it.
>
> Hello. I'm a new Nova Roman Citizen, Just added to the album civium.
>
> ATS: Welcome to the Res Publica!
>
>
> I have been following the ML list for a while and I rathe enjoy it. The
> friendly banter, not so friendly banter, the Roman oriented information from
> individuals and especially the messages from the pontifex maximus or maybe
> he's the augur but he is Marcus Moravius Horatius I think and never
> disappoints.
>
> ATS: M. Moravius Piscinus is both an augur and the pontifex maximus; we
> have too few here to fully separate all religious offices.
>
>
> But now I wish to go further, Is there anyone who could maybe show me around
> and introduce me the things they think a Roman citizens should be in the know
> about, maybe help me with latin which I'm fond of and can read some, but
> cannot yet speak. It would be greatly appreciated and I would be forever in
> that persons debt
>
> ATS: Caeca sent you in the right direction for new citizen introductions.
> I will add that we have an all too quiet SIG for Latin, the Sodalitas
> Latinitatis, and that I do teach five Latin courses by two different methods.
> The current courses are well along and registration is therefore closed, but
> with luck will resume in late August to mid-late September, depending on the
> length of the course. We teach traditional Latin using a very popular college
> textbook as well as Latin by assimilation, using a more natural method
> intended to produce spoken and written fluency, though I find this is more
> effective if the prospective learner already has some knowledge of Latin. The
> pace in those classes is quite rapid, and not everyone can keep up. Some
> can¹t even keep up with the weekly lessons and homework in my traditional
> method classes, but only by doing the work does one learn the language. It
> does not arrive without effort.
>
> You may be interested to learn that there are various groups throughout
> the world which gather to practice speaking Latin during a meal in a relaxed
> setting; there are also full-immersion Latin conventicula, typically lasting
> about a week, in which Latin is normally the only language allowed. Those,
> however, require a minimum of two years¹ of Latin, and much more is highly
> desirable before attempting to attend any conventiculum. The greges Latini or
> circuli Latini, the spoken-Latin groups, are more relaxed, and one may just
> sit and absorb. If you are in or near a major European city, there probably
> is one near you; if you are in the US or Canada, there might be.
>
> Sincerly Gaius Iulius Calvinus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

gods I got that wrong, I could kick myself for that dimwitted error, which Agricola was too kind to point out....See, living proof you can make idiotic mistakes and still progress in Latin...lol

Nomen mihi est Caecae [dative case for most feminine nouns & adj]
Nomen mihi est Lucretio [dative case for most masculine nouns & adj]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Gratias tibi ago! I ad wondered about the use of the dative in this situation, but this explains it perfectly.
>
> Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Hortensiae Majori C. Mariae Caecae quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve Caeca amica;
> bene - good!
>
> you could say: mihi nomen Gaia Maria Caeca est
>
> ATS: Even more idiomatically, however, the name goes into the dative by
> attraction and becomes: mihi nomen est C. Mariae Caecae. Mihi nomen est M.
> Hortensiae Majori. Mihi nomen est A. Tulliae Scholasticae, etc. Remember,
> that in written form, the praenomen is abbreviated; it was used alone only
> among family members and close friends.
>
> I love Latin when it's fun too !
> everyone should join in. The latin cops will not come if you make a mistake -
>
> ATS: I don¹t think Terentius T. is on this list... ;-) The rest of us
> don¹t bite. Correct, yes; bite, no.
>
>
> trial and error is how you learn a language.
>
> ATS: Often it is. That is why we spill so much red ink on student
> papers...
>
> vale
> Maior
>
> Valete.
>
>> > Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.
>> >
>> > Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria
>> Caeca.
>> >
>> > Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>
> I *knew* there was something wrong after I pressed "send"...
>
> ATS: LOL! Just a minor detail. I suspect that our happily-returned
> Laenas is not interested in the surgery required to make him a member of the
> feminine gender. ;-) Of course, if he has a good singing voice...
>
> Back to correcting SL II midterms.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis
>>> S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato Popilliae Laenae sal.
>>> > >
>>> > > Ahem, Cato...Popillia is a friend of Lentulus, and of the female
>>> > > persuasion. Laena is a kind of cloak... C. Popillius Laenas appears
>>> to be
>>> > > male, and his cognomen is declined like that of Maecenas: Maecenas,
>>> > > Maecenatis, Maecenati, Maecenatem, Maecenate, so we need Laenati for the
>>> > > dative here, and Popillio for the nomen. Please let us get these gender
>>> > > issues resolved; Latin grammar requires this, whether or not you (or
>>> anyone
>>> > > else) likes it. Popilliae is the dative of a feminine noun; Popillio is

the

>>> > > dative of a masculine one.
>>> > >
>>> > > Woot! Welcome home! Would you have it any other way?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Plus ça change, plus c¹est la même chose. Bienvenue!
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > > "gaiuspopilliuslaenas" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>>>> > >> > Salvete,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > A little less than a year and things don't see to have changed much

;-)

>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Valete,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > C. Popillius Laenas
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

,

>>>> > >> "Cato"
>>>>> > >> > <catoinnyc@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> >> Cato Dextero sal.
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >> Under what law does she have the authority to "issue warnings"?

Please

>>>>> > >>> cite
>>>>>>> > >>> >> the specific law or edict that exists allowing her to do so.
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >> Vale,
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >> Cato
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>> > >>> >> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>>>>>> > >>> >> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Dexter Catoni sal.,
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>>> Anyway, officially you cannot issue "warnings",
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> She can officially do it, of course. As moderator of the

list, she

>>>>>> > >>>> gives
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Sulla a warning. Sexual slang is not allowed. Moreover when

Sulla put

>>>>>> > >>>> his
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> fantasies to explain things that he does not understand.
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Not only Sulla shows to everybody that he has a crass
>>>>>>>>> ignorance about
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Antiquity but also he has a bad language. To restore the
>>>>>>>>> level of our
>>>>>> > >>>> forum
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> against a such rude individual, this warning is a very good

thing.

>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Optime vale.
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> C. Petronius Dexter Arcoiali scribebat a.d. XV Kalendas

Martias P.

>>>>>> > >>>> Memmio K.
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>> Fabio II coss.
>>>>>>>>> > >>>> >>>
>>>>>>> > >>> >>
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeca Scholastica Maiorique sal,

That's OK, Maior, I tried to make nomen into an adjective! I'm still trying to figure out what synapse in my alleged brain misfired, and I *think* I know. Bottom line is ...we're playing word games in Latin, and I, for one, think that's rather wonderful.

Speaking of word games ...have any of our cives ever constructed crossword puzzles, or played scrabble in Latin?

Vale et valete bene,
Caeca, who wishes current fashion included veils, so she could hide her face so even the screen wouldn't be able to see her, right about now, LOL!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> I *knew* there was something wrong after I pressed "send"...

But in Latin too things are not always simple. Some cognomina can be with feminine form but masculine gender. For example Catilina.

So the declension of Catilina is exactly the same that rosa's declension. Id est feminine declension. BUT Catilina being a man, you must add to him adjective at the masculine form. If you think Catilina handsome you have to say pulcher Catilina or formosus Catilina.

And as things are not simple a word can be in masculine form but of gender feminine as methodus, humus, pinus...

humi jacet or in dura humo jacet.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XII Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Maior Dextro spd;
and that reminded me, Lentulus' chère amie is Popillia Laenas. I was going to say something last year, but Popillius Laenas left, so now he's returned & that makes her his onomastic daughter;-) ooops
vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > I *knew* there was something wrong after I pressed "send"...
>
> But in Latin too things are not always simple. Some cognomina can be with feminine form but masculine gender. For example Catilina.
>
> So the declension of Catilina is exactly the same that rosa's declension. Id est feminine declension. BUT Catilina being a man, you must add to him adjective at the masculine form. If you think Catilina handsome you have to say pulcher Catilina or formosus Catilina.
>
> And as things are not simple a word can be in masculine form but of gender feminine as methodus, humus, pinus...
>
> humi jacet or in dura humo jacet.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. XII Kalendas Martias P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Lucretio Agricolae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Agricola Caecae sal.
>
> We use "nomen mihi..." because it uses the "dative of reference". "mihi" is in
> the dative case, and a dative of reference is just that, it "refers" to
> something. So Latin is saying "the name that refers to me is..."
>
> ATS: This is more a dative of possession, but it is sometimes difficult
> to draw the line. Generally, however, esse + dative indicates possession.
>
> Let's think now what the possessive adjective implies. "nomen meum" (and here
> I am pulling the gender of "nomen", neuter, out of memories more than 30 years
> old, and pardon me if I am wrong), "
>
> ATS: You are quite correct. Your memory is working well.
>
>
> the nomen that I possess". Well, that sounds OK to English speaking ears, but
> what about "the nomen that I own"? Would that be an acceptable implication?
> Probably not.
>
> It happens that English uses the same form for ownership and reference. "My
> house", "my name". But Latin does not. Actually, I am not Latinist enough to
> say that no person at no time and under no circumstances and in no register of
> writing or speaking ever used the possessive adjective in this way. But it
> seems to be generally true.
>
> ATS: The dative use is more idiomatic, more colloquial. If someone said
> (quote) You have dragged my name in the mud (unquote), the dative seems less
> likely than the pronominal adjective.
>
> The key to understanding this is to keep two things separate in your mind, and
> these are two things that one does not normally think about in one's native
> language. The two things are "form" and "function". English here uses one form
> for two functions and Latin has a different form for each function. Latin uses
> the dative form when the function is reference and a possessive form of some
> sort when the function is ownership.
>
> So the art of translation is not from form to form (my name -/-> nomen meum)
> but from form to function to form (my name --> the name that refers to me -->
> nomen mihi).
>
> Finally, to go back to the beginning of my note, I used the grammar term
> "dative of reference". This is a term of grammar that links the form "dative"
> and the function "reference". In a sense, learning a language comes down to
> that, mapping our familiar old functions onto new forms.
>
> ATS: Yes, there is a lot of that involved in language learning. The
> dative of reference in Latin is sufficiently complex that we delay it until
> late in the intermediate Wheelock class. It has many variants, and they shade
> into one another.
>
> optime vale!
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Caeca omnibus S.P.D.
>> >
>> > Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.
>> >
>> > Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria
>> Caeca.
>> >
>> > Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica M. Lucretio Agricolae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Agricola Caecae sal.
>
> We use "nomen mihi..." because it uses the "dative of reference". "mihi" is in
> the dative case, and a dative of reference is just that, it "refers" to
> something. So Latin is saying "the name that refers to me is..."
>
> ATS: This is more a dative of possession, but it is sometimes difficult
> to draw the line. Generally, however, esse + dative indicates possession.
>
> Let's think now what the possessive adjective implies. "nomen meum" (and here
> I am pulling the gender of "nomen", neuter, out of memories more than 30 years
> old, and pardon me if I am wrong), "
>
> ATS: You are quite correct. Your memory is working well.
>
>
> the nomen that I possess". Well, that sounds OK to English speaking ears, but
> what about "the nomen that I own"? Would that be an acceptable implication?
> Probably not.
>
> It happens that English uses the same form for ownership and reference. "My
> house", "my name". But Latin does not. Actually, I am not Latinist enough to
> say that no person at no time and under no circumstances and in no register of
> writing or speaking ever used the possessive adjective in this way. But it
> seems to be generally true.
>
> ATS: The dative use is more idiomatic, more colloquial. If someone said
> (quote) You have dragged my name in the mud (unquote), the dative seems less
> likely than the pronominal adjective.
>
> The key to understanding this is to keep two things separate in your mind, and
> these are two things that one does not normally think about in one's native
> language. The two things are "form" and "function". English here uses one form
> for two functions and Latin has a different form for each function. Latin uses
> the dative form when the function is reference and a possessive form of some
> sort when the function is ownership.
>
> So the art of translation is not from form to form (my name -/-> nomen meum)
> but from form to function to form (my name --> the name that refers to me -->
> nomen mihi).
>
> Finally, to go back to the beginning of my note, I used the grammar term
> "dative of reference". This is a term of grammar that links the form "dative"
> and the function "reference". In a sense, learning a language comes down to
> that, mapping our familiar old functions onto new forms.
>
> ATS: Yes, there is a lot of that involved in language learning. The
> dative of reference in Latin is sufficiently complex that we delay it until
> late in the intermediate Wheelock class. It has many variants, and they shade
> into one another.
>
> optime vale!
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Caeca omnibus S.P.D.
>> >
>> > Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.
>> >
>> > Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria
>> Caeca.
>> >
>> > Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Major Scholasticae spd;
maximas gratias for the further colloquial form:
mihi nomen est ..
and for the timely warning to avoid irasible terence t;-)

as my thank you amica here is a link to Sherlock Holmes in Latin!
http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/holmesiaca.php

and for Caeca - crossword puzzles
http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/crucigrammata/index.htm

and some novels, namely A Christmas Carol and even better the Prisoner of Zenda in latine. ecastor!
http://phaselus.org.uk/
optime valete
Major

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica M. Lucretio Agricolae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Agricola Caecae sal.
> >
> > We use "nomen mihi..." because it uses the "dative of reference". "mihi" is in
> > the dative case, and a dative of reference is just that, it "refers" to
> > something. So Latin is saying "the name that refers to me is..."
> >
> > ATS: This is more a dative of possession, but it is sometimes difficult
> > to draw the line. Generally, however, esse + dative indicates possession.
> >
> > Let's think now what the possessive adjective implies. "nomen meum" (and here
> > I am pulling the gender of "nomen", neuter, out of memories more than 30 years
> > old, and pardon me if I am wrong), "
> >
> > ATS: You are quite correct. Your memory is working well.
> >
> >
> > the nomen that I possess". Well, that sounds OK to English speaking ears, but
> > what about "the nomen that I own"? Would that be an acceptable implication?
> > Probably not.
> >
> > It happens that English uses the same form for ownership and reference. "My
> > house", "my name". But Latin does not. Actually, I am not Latinist enough to
> > say that no person at no time and under no circumstances and in no register of
> > writing or speaking ever used the possessive adjective in this way. But it
> > seems to be generally true.
> >
> > ATS: The dative use is more idiomatic, more colloquial. If someone said
> > (quote) You have dragged my name in the mud (unquote), the dative seems less
> > likely than the pronominal adjective.
> >
> > The key to understanding this is to keep two things separate in your mind, and
> > these are two things that one does not normally think about in one's native
> > language. The two things are "form" and "function". English here uses one form
> > for two functions and Latin has a different form for each function. Latin uses
> > the dative form when the function is reference and a possessive form of some
> > sort when the function is ownership.
> >
> > So the art of translation is not from form to form (my name -/-> nomen meum)
> > but from form to function to form (my name --> the name that refers to me -->
> > nomen mihi).
> >
> > Finally, to go back to the beginning of my note, I used the grammar term
> > "dative of reference". This is a term of grammar that links the form "dative"
> > and the function "reference". In a sense, learning a language comes down to
> > that, mapping our familiar old functions onto new forms.
> >
> > ATS: Yes, there is a lot of that involved in language learning. The
> > dative of reference in Latin is sufficiently complex that we delay it until
> > late in the intermediate Wheelock class. It has many variants, and they shade
> > into one another.
> >
> > optime vale!
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Caeca omnibus S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> > Ego sum Gaia Maria Caeca.
> >> >
> >> > Could I also say Nomena mea Gaia Maria Caeca est.? (my name is Gaia Maria
> >> Caeca.
> >> >
> >> > Gratias, I love it when we have Latin fun!
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus cultoribus Deorum, Quiritibus et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Hersilia pacem nobiscum det.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Martias; haec dies comitialis est: Parentalia

"With hail and snow Favonius or Auster blow." ~ Columella, De Re Rustica 2.21


PARENTALIA

Roman family processions traveled out of the City on this day to the tombs of their relatives. With them they brought gifts of wine, water, milk, honey, oil, salt and black sacrificial victims. They decorated the tombs with flowers, preferably violets and roses, and in the evening lit candles at the tombs before leaving.


"Why did theRomans not extinguish a lamp, but suffered it to go out of itself? Did they reverence it as akin and closely related to the inextinguishable and undying fire, or is this also a symbolic indication that we should not destroy p115nor do away with any living thing, if it does us no harm, since fire is like a living thing? For it needs sustenance, it moves of itself, and when it is extinguished it gives out a sound as if it were being slain. Or does this custom teach us that we should not destroy fire, water, or any other necessity when we have enough and to spare, but should allow those who have need of these things to use them, and should leave them for others when we ourselves no longer have any use for them?" ~ Plutarch, Roman Questions 75


The Deification of Hersilia

"His wife, Hersilia, was mourning him as lost, when royal Juno ordered Iris to descend to her, by her rainbow path, and carry these commands, to the widowed queen: 'O lady, glory of the Latin and Sabine peoples, worthy before all to have been the wife of so great a hero, and now of Quirinus, dry your tears, and if it is your desire to see your husband, follow me and seek the grove, that flourishes on the Quirinal hill and shades the temple of Rome's king.'

"Iris obeyed, and gliding to earth along her many-coloured arch addressed Hersilia as she had been ordered. She, hardly raising her eyes, replied, modestly: 'O goddess (since it is not easy for me to say who you are, but it is clear you are a goddess), lead on: O, lead on, and show me my husband's face. If only the fates allow me to see him once, I shall declare I have been received in heaven.'

"Without delay, she climbed to Romulus's hill, with Iris, the virgin daughter of Thaumas. There a star fell, gliding from sky to earth, and Hersilia, hair set alight by its fire, vanishes with the star in the air. The founder of the Roman city receives her in his familiar embrace, and alters her former body and her name, and calls her Hora, who, a Goddess now, is one with her Quirinus." ~ Ovidius, Metamorphoses 14.829-851, A. S. Kline prose translation

"Why did the men of old keep the Temple of Horta continually open? Is it, as Antistius Labeo has stated, that since 'to urge on' is expressed by hortari, Horta is the Goddess who urges us on, as it were, and incites us to noble actions; and thus they thought that since She was ever active, She should never be procrastinating nor shut off by Herself nor unemployed? Or rather do they call Her, as at present, Hora, with the first syllable lengthened, an attentive and very considerate Goddess, who, since She was protective and thoughtful, they felt was never indifferent nor neglectful of human affairs? Or is this too, like many other Latin words, a Greek word, and does it signify the supervising and guardian Goddess? Hence Her Temple was continually open since She neither slumbers nor sleeps. If, however, Labeo is right in pointing out that Hora is derived from paraorman (to urge on), consider whether we must not declare that orator is thus to be derived since an orator is a counsellar or popular leader who simulates, as it were, and incites; and it is not to be derived from 'imprecating' or 'praying' (orare) as some assert." ~ Plutarch, Roman Questions 46


Ancient Weather Forecastors

"I cannot restrain myself from publishing all of the silly theories of our Stoic friends. They assert that there are some experts in observing clouds and in predicting when hail will come. They are able to know this just from experience, since they have noted in the clouds a color for which is in every case followed by hail.

"It is incredible – illud incredibile – that at Cleonae there were 'hail officers' appointed at public expense who watched for hail to come. When they gave a signal that hail was approaching, what do you think happened! Quid expectas? Did people run for woolly overcoats or leather rain-wear? No. Everybody offered sacrifices according to his means, a lamb or a chicken. When those clouds had tasted some blood they immediately moved off in another direction.

"Do you laugh at this? Hoc rides? Here is something to make you laugh even more. If someone did not have a lamb or a chicken, he laid hands on himself, which could be done without great expense. But do not think the clouds greedy for blood or cruel. He merely pricked his finger with a well sharpened stylus and made a favorable offering with his blood, and the hail turned away from his little field no less than it did from the property of a man who had appeased it with sacrifice of larger victims." ~ L. Annaeus Seneca minor, Naturales Quaestiones 4B.6


Our thought for today is from the Sententiae of Publilius Syrus. The Sententiae was a popular collection of quips from his plays:

"Straining breaks the bow, and relaxation relieves the mind."

Arcum intensio frangit, animum remissio.