Ave!

Well the law dictionary definition is this:

star chamber A court or group that engages in secret, harsh, or arbitrary
procedures.

Now, what body sounds like this in Nova Roma?

The term goes back to England. The best example I can give is the movie
from 1983:

In the 1983 movie *The Star
Chamber<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Chamber>
*, Michael Douglas, playing an idealistic Los Angeles Superior Court judge
frustrated about having to free obviously guilty criminals merely because of
legal technicalities, learns from his mentor about a secret cabal of
judges�a Star Chamber�that metes out its own brand of justice against those
it determines have wrongly been set free.

And in NR, this is best characterized to what the CP did to Consul
Albucius. Given there was no due process - no means for him to defend
himself. He probably had no idea he was even being investigated.

In the US, star chambers are outlawed and the English Star Chambers inspired
the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Documents/the_court_of_star_chamber.htm
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Star+chamber
http://www.answers.com/topic/star-chamber

Vale,

Sulla

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:01 PM, lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Robert
> Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > Well I am tired of secrets and star chambers. Better to let it out.
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> What is a star chamber?
>
> Vale,
>
> Anna Bucci
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jean,

>I'm considering the possibility of applying for membership and as such
>decided to audit this mailing list for a while so as to get a feel for the
>organization.

Hanging around this list and seeing the discussions is a good idea before
applying for membership. You'll be surprised at what you find here.
Vale,
Diana Octavia Aventina

C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,

I read somewhere about Jewish thought that before the "creation" there are Tohu and Bohu whith which Elohim not created (Elohim is a plural, the monotheism of Jewish was made from a plural god) but arranged the word.

If this is true about Jewish thought, the same was shared by Greek with Chaos.

The Ancient did not think the creation was from nothing.
Lucretius is the more precise about that in his book of the de rerum natura. "Nihil ex nihilo neque res ad nihilum revertit."

Valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Ave Dexter,

Well Rashi does give some commentary in regards to the state before
creation. I don't know if this will answer your inquiry but it is very
interesting.

http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01r.html

*Verse 1: In the beginning.*

R. Yitzchok said: The Torah should have begun with [the verse] "This month
shall be [your first
month],"1<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn1>it being the
first precept that the Israelites were commanded.
2 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn2> Then why does it [the
Torah] begin with "In the beginning"? This is because [of the concept
contained in the verse,] "He declared the power of His works to His people
in order to give to them the inheritance of
nations."3<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn3>Thus, should
the nations of the world say to Israel, "You are robbers, for
you have taken by force the lands of the Seven
Nations,"4<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn4>they [Israel]
will say to them: "All the earth belongs to G-d. He created it
and gave it to whomever He saw fit. It was His will to give it to them and
it was His will to take it from them and give it to us."

*In the beginning [El-him] created.*

This verse insists that it be expounded as was done by our
Rabbis.5<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn5>
6 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn6> [The world was
created] for the sake of the Torah which is called "The *beginning* of His
way,"7 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn7> and for the sake of
Israel who are called "The *beginning* of His grain
crop."8<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn8>
9 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn9> But if you insist on
the simple interpretation, interpret it thus. At the beginning of the
creation of heaven and earth, when the world was unformed and desolate, G-d
said, "Let there be light." This verse does not intend to teach the sequence
of creation -- that these were [created] first. For if that was the
intention, it should have written, "*At first* G-d created the heavens,"
etc. For the word *{Hebrew Ref}* never appears in Scripture except when it
is annexed to the following word. For example, "At the beginning of
Yehoyakim's reign,"10 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn10> [or]
"The beginning of his
reign,"11<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn11>[or] "The
first of your corn crop."
12 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn12> Here, too, you must
interpret "In the beginning El-him created" as if [it were written] "At the
beginning of the creating." [We find] similarly, " *{Hebrew Ref}* ," as if
to say, "At the beginning of G-d's speaking to Hoshea, G-d said to Hoshea,"
etc.13 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn13> If you would claim
that [the verse] intends to convey that these [i.e., heaven and earth] *were
* created first, and its interpretation *is* that at the beginning of
everything He created these; and that there are [other] such verses that are
shortened omitting a word, such as, "For [it] did not shut the doors of my
womb,"14 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn14> omitting who it is
that closes [the womb]; and "[It] will remove the army of
Damascus,"15<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn15>omitting
who it is that takes it away; and, "Does [it] plow with oxen?"
16 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn16> without explicitly
stating, "Does *man* plow with oxen?" and, "He relates the end from the
beginning,"17 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn17> without
stating explicitly, "He relates from the beginning *of something,* the end *of
something.*" If this is so, you must question
yourself.18<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn18>Because [as
it happens] water preceded [the heavens and the earth,] for it
is written, "The breath of El-him hovered above the surface of the water,"
Scripture not yet having revealed when the creation of the water took place,
19 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn19> thus teaching that the
waters preceded the earth. And further [proof of the above is that] since
the heavens were created from fire and
water,20<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn20>you are
therefore forced [to admit] that Scripture did not [intend to] teach
anything of the earlier or later sequence [of creation].

*El-him created.*21 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn21>

It is not written "Ad-noy
created!"22<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn22>[This is]
because at first He intended to create it with the attribute of
justice, but then saw that the world cannot exist and gave priority to the
attribute of mercy and joined it with the attribute of justice. This
[thought] is conveyed in the verse, "On the day when Ad-noy El-him made
earth and heaven."23 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn23>

*Verse 2: Unformed and desolate.*

*{Hebrew Ref}* signifies wonder and astonishment. I.e., a person would be
awed and astonished by its emptiness. *{Hebrew Ref}* in Old French is *
estordison.*

*Desolate.*

*{Hebrew Ref}* means desolation and empty space.

*The surface of the abyss.*

I.e., upon the waters that are upon the
earth.24<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn24>

*The breath of El-him
hovered.*25<http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn25>

[This refers to the] Throne of Glory [which] was standing in space, hovering
over the surface of the waters by means of the breath of G-d and His
commands,26 <http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b01n.html#fn26> as a dove
hovers over its nest. *Acoveter* in Old French.


It goes on from there and I generally reference this as I do my readings.

I hope you enjoy reviewing it.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 2:15 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

>
>
> C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,
>
> I read somewhere about Jewish thought that before the "creation" there are
> Tohu and Bohu whith which Elohim not created (Elohim is a plural, the
> monotheism of Jewish was made from a plural god) but arranged the word.
>
> If this is true about Jewish thought, the same was shared by Greek with
> Chaos.
>
> The Ancient did not think the creation was from nothing.
> Lucretius is the more precise about that in his book of the de rerum
> natura. "Nihil ex nihilo neque res ad nihilum revertit."
>
> Valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Maria!

Thank you for your comments, advice, and willingness to lend aid. Do you have an official capacity within Nova Roma?

I joined the newroman list but I can see that most of the activity is here; I think I'll get a better sense of the membership in the main list. I will however monitor the newroman list also.

I've given thought to a name and think I like:

Gaius Octavius Priscus

What do you think?

Again, thank you for the warm welcome.

Vale,

Jean

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Jean, et salvete omnes!
>
> Jean, welcome! there is so much to discover, here ...and, as this is the main list, where anything and everything can happen, it can be daunting and confusing, at times. (at least, I found it so, in the beginning. I had to create a "score card" even to get the players straight, LOL!) What you might want to consider doing, if you haven't, is to join the Newroman list ...which is dedicated to helping new and potential citizens learn about us, orient themselves, and help them build the foundation that will enable them, with confidence, to become active, productive members of our endeavor. You can do this by sending an email to:
>
> newroman-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Meanwhile ...if you have any specific questions, or need help of any sort, I try to keep myself always available to new citizens, so just email me.
>
> One of the first things you might like to do is to choose a Roman name. You can find a guide for doing that in our WIKI web site ...and the good people who work in the Censors' cohors will be more than happy to work with you, so that you get something historically correct ..that you like, and can be comfortable with!
>
> Again, welcome, and I hope your stay with us is enjoyable and of value to you!
>
> Vale et valete bene,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Sulla,

What is the Back alley? It doesn't come up when I do a search in Yahoo groups.

Vale,

Jean

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> Don't forget to join the Back alley the fun email list! heheheh
>
> BackAlley-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 8:12 PM, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Jean, et salvete omnes!
> >
> > Jean, welcome! there is so much to discover, here ...and, as this is the
> > main list, where anything and everything can happen, it can be daunting and
> > confusing, at times. (at least, I found it so, in the beginning. I had to
> > create a "score card" even to get the players straight, LOL!) What you might
> > want to consider doing, if you haven't, is to join the Newroman list
> > ...which is dedicated to helping new and potential citizens learn about us,
> > orient themselves, and help them build the foundation that will enable them,
> > with confidence, to become active, productive members of our endeavor. You
> > can do this by sending an email to:
> >
> > newroman-subscribe@yahoogroups.com <newroman-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Meanwhile ...if you have any specific questions, or need help of any sort,
> > I try to keep myself always available to new citizens, so just email me.
> >
> > One of the first things you might like to do is to choose a Roman name. You
> > can find a guide for doing that in our WIKI web site ...and the good people
> > who work in the Censors' cohors will be more than happy to work with you, so
> > that you get something historically correct ..that you like, and can be
> > comfortable with!
> >
> > Again, welcome, and I hope your stay with us is enjoyable and of value to
> > you!
> >
> > Vale et valete bene,
> > C. Maria Caeca
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Diana,

Thank you for the advice.

Vale,

Jean

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Octavia" <roman.babe@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jean,
>
> >I'm considering the possibility of applying for membership and as such
> >decided to audit this mailing list for a while so as to get a feel for the
> >organization.
>
> Hanging around this list and seeing the discussions is a good idea before
> applying for membership. You'll be surprised at what you find here.
> Vale,
> Diana Octavia Aventina
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus simus.

Hodie est die pristine Nonas Septembres; haec dies comitialis est: ludi Romani magni committuntur

AUC 458 / 295 BCE: Q. Fabius Rullianus, in his fifth consulship, celebrated his third triumph for his victories over the Samnites, Etruscans and Gauls.

Earlier in this year the Samnite meddix Gellius Egnatius had forged an alliance of Etrurians, Umbrians, and Sessonian Gauls with the Samnite tribes. This was the gravest threat that the Republic was to face. Smaller Roman forces were sent to harass the countryside of Etruria and Umbria, effectively neutralizing their forces and preventing the coalition armies from joining one another. The two consular armies under Rullianus and Decius Mus were then able to concentrate against the joint forces of the Samnites and Gauls near Sentinum.

"On the third day the whole force on both sides marched down into the plain. Whilst the two armies were standing ready to engage, a hind driven by a wolf from the mountains ran down into the open space between the two lines with the wolf in pursuit. Here they each took a different direction, the hind ran to the Gauls, the wolf to the Romans. Way was made for the wolf between the ranks; the Gauls speared the hind. On this a soldier in the front rank exclaimed: "In that place where you see the creature sacred to Diana lying dead, flight and carnage will begin; here the wolf, whole and unhurt, a creature sacred to Mars, reminds us of our Founder and that we too are of the race of Mars." The Gauls were stationed on the right, the Samnites on the left. Q. Fabius posted the first and third legions on the right wing, facing the Samnites; to oppose the Gauls, Decius had the fifth and sixth legions, who formed the Roman left. The second and fourth legions were engaged in Samnium with L. Volumnius the proconsul. When the armies first met they were so evenly matched that had the Etruscans and Umbrians been present, whether taking part in the battle or attacking the camp, the Romans must have been defeated.

"But although neither side was gaining any advantage and Fortune had not yet indicated in any way to whom she would grant the victory, the fighting on the right wing was very different from that on the left. The Romans under Fabius were acting more on the defensive and were protracting the contest as long as possible. Their commander knew that it was the habitual practice of both the Gauls and the Samnites to make a furious attack to begin with, and if that were successfully resisted, it was enough; the courage of the Samnites gradually sank as the battle went on, whilst the Gauls, utterly unable to stand heat or exertion, found their physical strength melting away; in their first efforts they were more than men, in the end they were weaker than women. Knowing this, he kept the strength of his men unimpaired against the time when the enemy usually began to show signs of defeat. Decius, as a younger man, possessing more vigour of mind, showed more dash; he made use of all the strength he possessed in opening the attack, and as the infantry battle developed too slowly for him, he called on the cavalry. Putting himself at the head of a squadron of exceptionally gallant troopers, he appealed to them as the pick of his soldiers to follow him in charging the enemy, for a twofold glory would be theirs if victory began on the left wing and, in that wing, with the cavalry. Twice they swept aside the Gaulish horse. Making a third charge, they were carried too far, and whilst they were now fighting desperately in the midst of the enemy's cavalry they were thrown into consternation by a new style of warfare. Armed men mounted on chariots and baggage wagons came on with a thunderous noise of horses and wheels, and the horses of the Roman cavalry, unaccustomed to that kind of uproar, became uncontrollable through fright; the cavalry after their victorious charges, were now scattered in frantic terror; horses and men alike were overthrown in their blind flight. Even the standards of the legionaries were thrown into confusion, and many of the front rank men were crushed by the weight of the horses and vehicles dashing through the lines. When the Gauls saw their enemy thus demoralised they did not give them a moment's breathing space in which to recover themselves, but followed up at once with a fierce attack. Decius shouted to his men and asked them whither they were fleeing, what hope they had in flight; he tried to stop those who were retreating and recall the scattered units. Finding himself unable, do what he would, to check the demoralisation, he invoked the name of his father, P. Decius, and cried: "Why do I any longer delay the destined fate of my family? This is the privilege granted to our house that we should be an expiatory sacrifice to avert dangers from the State. Now will I offer the legions of the enemy together with myself as a sacrifice to Tellus and the Dii Manes." When he had uttered these words he ordered the pontiff, M. Livius, whom he had kept by his side all through the battle, to recite the prescribed form in which he was to devote "himself and the legions of the enemy on behalf of the army of the Roman people, the Quirites." He was accordingly devoted in the same words and wearing the same garb as his father, P. Decius, at the battle of Veseris in the Latin war. After the usual prayers had been recited he uttered the following awful curse: "I carry before me terror and rout and carnage and blood and the wrath of all the Gods, those above and those below. I will infect the standards, the armour, the weapons of the enemy with dire and manifold death, the place of my destruction shall also witness that of the Gauls and Samnites." After uttering this imprecation on himself and on the enemy he spurred his horse against that part of the Gaulish line where they were most densely massed and leaping into it was slain by their missiles.

"From this moment the battle could hardly have appeared to any man to be dependent on human strength alone. After losing their leader, a thing which generally demoralises an army, the Romans arrested their flight and recommenced the struggle. The Gauls, especially those who were crowded round the consul's body, were discharging their missiles aimlessly and harmlessly as though bereft of their senses; some seemed paralysed, incapable of either fight or flight. But, in the other army, the pontiff Livius, to whom Decius had transferred his lictors and whom he had commissioned to act as propraetor, announced in loud tones that the consul's death had freed the Romans from all danger and given them the victory, the Gauls and Samnites were made over to Tellus the Mother and the Dii Manes, Decius was summoning and dragging down to himself the army which he had devoted together with himself, there was terror everywhere among the enemy, and the Furies were lashing them into madness. Whilst the battle was thus being restored, L. Cornelius Scipio and C. Marcius were ordered by Fabius to bring up the reserves from the rear to the support of his colleagues. There they learnt the fate of P. Decius, and it was a powerful encouragement to them to dare everything for the republic. The Gauls were standing in close order covered by their shields, and a hand-to-hand fight seemed no easy matter, but the staff officers gave orders for the javelins which were lying on the ground between the two armies to be gathered up and hurled at the enemy's shield wall. Although most of them stuck in their shields and only a few penetrated their bodies, the closely massed ranks went down, most of them falling without having received a wound, just as though they had been struck by lightning. Such was the change that Fortune had brought about in the Roman left wing.

"On the right Fabius, as I have stated, was protracting the contest. When he found that neither the battle-shout of the enemy, nor their onset, nor the discharge of their missiles were as strong as they had been at the beginning, he ordered the officers in command of the cavalry to take their squadrons round to the side of the Samnite army, ready at a given signal to deliver as fierce a flank attack as possible. The infantry were at the same time to press steadily forwards and dislodge the enemy. When he saw that they were offering no resistance, and were evidently worn out, he massed all his support which he had kept in reserve for the supreme moment, and gave the signal for a general charge of infantry and cavalry. The Samnites could not face the onslaught and fled precipitately past the Gauls to their camp, leaving their allies to fight as best they could. The Gauls were still standing in close order behind their shield wall. Fabius, on hearing of his colleague's death, ordered a squadron of Campanian horse, about 500 strong, to go out of action and ride round to take the Gauls in the rear. The principes of the third legion were ordered to follow, and, wherever they saw the enemy's line disordered by the cavalry, to press home the attack and cut them down. He vowed a temple and the spoils of the enemy to Jupiter Victor, and then proceeded to the Samnite camp to which the whole crowd of panic-struck fugitives was being driven. As they could not all get through the gates, those outside tried to resist the Roman attack and a battle began close under the rampart. It was here that Gellius Egnatius, the captain-general of the Samnites, fell. Finally the Samnites were driven within their lines and the camp was taken after a brief struggle. At the same time the Gauls were attacked in the rear and overpowered; 25,000 of the enemy were killed in that day's fighting and 8000 made prisoners. The victory was by no means a bloodless one, for P. Decius lost 7000 killed and Fabius 1700. After sending out a search party to find his colleague's body, Fabius had the spoils of the enemy collected into a heap and burnt as a sacrifice to Jupiter Victor. The consul's body could not be found that day as it was buried under a heap of Gauls; it was discovered the next day and brought back to camp amidst the tears of the soldiers. Fabius laid aside all other business in order to pay the last rites to his dead colleague; the obsequies were conducted with every mark of honour and the funeral oration sounded the well-deserved praises of the deceased consul." ~ T. Livius 10.27-29


Ludi Romani Magni

"O Jupiter Capitolinus, to You I pray, I entreat You, who the Roman people have named Optimus after Your kindness and Maximus after Your great power." ~ M. Tullius Cicero, De Domo 144

The Ludi Romani, in honor of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, was said to have first begun in the time of Tarquinius Priscus. According to legend, Tarquinius Priscus had vowed a temple for Jupiter on the south mount of what was then the Saturnine Hill. It was Tarquinius Superbus, however, who began the temple's construction. Discovery of a skull at the construction site gave the mount its name, Capitolium, a name that then came to identify the Temple of Jupiter O. M., Juno Capitolina, and Minerva. The Tarquini were expelled before the temple was completed, and it was not until 508 BCE, on the Ides of September, therefore, that the temple was finally dedicated by Consul Marcus Horatius Puvillus (Livy 2.8). It would have been on that anniversary date, the New Year's Day of the Early Republic, that games would have been first introduced in some unknown year, a year soon after 191 BCE when the ludi were vowed. The number of days for the Ludi then expanded over time as the Capitolium grew in greater importance. The ceilings of the Capitolium interior were gilded in gold following the destruction of Carthage in 146 BCE; this was a likely time for the ludi to have been expanded. Catulus gilded the bronze tiles of the roof some time between 79 and 60 BCE, causing some controversy in doing so, and may also have expanded the ludi further . Dionysius of Halicarnassus recorded the ludi as he saw them between 30 and 8 BCE. The occasion was marked by a great procession escorting Jupiter from His temple of the Capitolium through the Forum and Velabrium to the Circus Maximus. The procession was composed of the City's youth, troops of dancers and musicians, athletes and sacerdotes, displaying the sacred vessels of the temple and images of the Gods. The games included horse races and chariot races, boxing and wrestling, as well as other athletic and theatrical competitions.

AUC 562 / 191 BCE: Vow to hold the Ludi Romani Magni

"Then at last the consuls balloted, and Greece fell to Acilius, Italy to Cornelius. When this was settled a senatus consultum was passed in the following terms: 'Whereas the Roman people have at this time ordered that there be war with Antiochus and with all who are under his rule, the consuls shall on this behalf issue orders for a public intercession and M. Acilius shall vow Great Games to Jupiter and gifts and offerings to all the shrines.' This vow was made by the consul in the following formula, as dictated by P. Licinius the Pontifex Maximus: 'If the war which the people has ordered to be taken in hand against King Antiochus be brought to such a close as the senate and people of Rome desire, then all the Roman people shall celebrate in thy honour, Jupiter, Great Games for the space of ten days, and oblations of money shall be made to all thy shrines in such wise as the senate shall decree. Whatsoever magistrate shall hold these Games, whensoever and wheresoever he shall celebrate them, may they be deemed to be duly and rightly celebrated and the oblations duly and rightly offered!' Then the consul proclaimed special intercessions to be offered for two days." ~ Titus Livius 36.2

"Before beginning the games the principal magistrates conducted a procession in honour of the Gods from the Capitol through the Forum to the Circus Maximus. Those who led the procession were, first, the Romans' sons who were nearing manhood and were of an age to bear a part in this ceremony, who rode on horseback if their fathers were entitled by their fortunes to be knights, while the others, who were destined to serve in the infantry, went on foot, the former in squadrons and troops, and the latter in divisions and companies, as if they were going to school; this was done in order that strangers might see the number and beauty of the youths of the commonwealth who were approaching manhood. These were followed by charioteers, some of whom drove four horses abreast, some two, and others rode unyoked horses. After them came the contestants in both the light and the heavy games, their whole bodies naked except their loins. This custom continued even to my time at Rome." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities 7.72


AUC 696 / 57 BCE: Marcus Tullius Cicero returns from exile to Rome.

"My arrival in the neighbourhood of the City was the signal for every soul of every order known to my nomenclator coming out to meet me, except those enemies who could not either dissemble or deny the fact of their being such. On my arrival at the Porta Capena, the steps of the temples were already thronged from top to bottom by the populace; and while their congratulations were displayed by the loudest possible applause, a similar throng and similar applause accompanied me right up to the Capitol, and in the forum and on the Capitol itself there was again a wonderful crowd." ~ M. Tullius Cicero, Epistula LXXXIX (Ad Atticum 4.1)


AUC 1229 / 476 CE: Traditional Fall of the Roman Empire

Odovacar desired land for his people in Italy. Orestes, the master of the troops, refused this request and Odovacar revolted. He first defeated Orestes at Pavia and then rode on to Ravenna where he deposed Romulus Augustus, the son of Orestes and last emperor in the West. Zeno, Emperor in the East, had never recognized Romulus Augustus as co-emperor after Orestes had deposed Nepos and placed his son on the throne. When Zeno afterward named Odovacar as "patricius," Nepos retained titular claim as emperor in the West until his death in 480, while Zeno tacitly recognized Odovacar's rule in Italy. Seventeen years later Theodoric of the Ostrogoths, acting on behalf of Zeno, took Ravenna after a three year seige and captured Odovacar on 27 Feb. 493.


Our thought for today is from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.3:

"All that comes from the Gods is full of Providence. That which is from Fortune is not separated from nature or without an interweaving and involution with the things that are ordered by Providence. From thence all things flow; and there is besides necessity, and that which is for the advantage of the whole Universe, of which you are a part. But that is good for every part of nature that the nature of the whole brings, and what serves to maintain this nature. Now the Universe is preserved, as by the changes of the elements so by the changes of things compounded of the elements. Let these principles be enough for you, let them always be fixed opinions. But cast away the thirst after books, that you may not die murmuring, but cheerfully, truly, and from your heart be thankful to the Gods."



Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

I believe you are correct; the original idea seems to have been that Chaos existed and then God took it and with it created everything. On a side note, Christian apologists have used the plural "Elohim" to support the idea of the Trinity. I *think* the idea of ex nihilo gained strength because it was seen as "necessary" that nothing exist in eternity except for God Himself.

The pre-creational existence of Chaos is inescapably ancient; this very closely mirrors the ideas passed down by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. I particularly like the idea that there was only Chaos and then there was Kronos (Time), the Father of the rest of the gods (identified as Saturn by the Romans) - the concept of time itself beginning with the first actions of the gods is a pretty cool one.

Unfortunately Kronos/Saturn's story is not as ... happy ... as it might have been, what with being overthrown and killed by His son Zeus/Iuppiter... and of course Kronos/Saturn eating all His children is kind of off the hook to begin with.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,
>
> I read somewhere about Jewish thought that before the "creation" there are Tohu and Bohu whith which Elohim not created (Elohim is a plural, the monotheism of Jewish was made from a plural god) but arranged the word.
>
> If this is true about Jewish thought, the same was shared by Greek with Chaos.
>
> The Ancient did not think the creation was from nothing.
> Lucretius is the more precise about that in his book of the de rerum natura. "Nihil ex nihilo neque res ad nihilum revertit."
>
> Valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Piscinus Catone dicit

Only 4000 years? I thought Usher claimed the creation was to have occured some 6000 years ago, long after the planet existed, and longer still after the last big bang. Your list will exclude Aristotle, of course, Epicurus, the Eliatics, all of the Stoics and Platonists as well, and many more brilliant minds, just to allude to some of the Western schools of thought, though more are to be found in the East as well. But I do not need to recall the words of so many brilliant men and women to know that your belief in a creation of all things, spiritual and material, out of nothing is an absurdity.

There are many wonders to be found in our world. One does not need to believe in absurdities and miracles contradicting scientific awareness to find them or their causes. And not one arrives - *PROOF* - out of nothingness.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Piscino sal.
>
> Then we shall agree to disagree; for I believe that everything *was* created ex nihilo. And I'm not alone.
>
> Unlike you, though, I don't have the need to throw out the names of a hundred or a thousand famous, brilliant scholars and philosophers from history over the past 4000+ years who have believed it was created ex nihilo in order to make it seem more true or to denigrate *your* belief that it was not.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> >
> > Piscinus Catone salutem
> >
> > Did I say that the Gods are incapable of creating? Even I can create things from things. What I said was that the universe was not created, and neither is anyhing else created out of nothingness. Are you unfamiliar with Parmenides, with Plotinus? Do you not know the distinction between Being and the absurdity of Non-Being? Of Eternity and of time? Of the Henads of Proclus or the Involuti of Seneca? Perhaps you are also unfamiliar of Anselm's critique of Aquinas' "five proofs" how they proved nothing, and though proposed to prove a demiurge, did not prove the existence of a higher deity as he claimed.
> >
> > Your very conception of what a God is or is not differs from what is held in our own tradition. So your question has little meaning to me.
> >
> > Plotinus said, "The world, we must reflect, is a product of Necessity, not of deliberate purpose: it is due to a higher Kind engendering in its own likeness by a natural process." Ennead 3.2.3 He talks about himself being made by a God, but that was by a natural process as well, and not by creation out of nothingness. Things that coming into Being, for a limited time, are engendered through natural processes that take place over time. Plotinus would argue that he himself, his authentic being, was made by Being, an ultimate being (being a Platonist), but held as the nexus entombed in a phyiscal form produced by Nature through natural processes. While things in Nature exist in time, having a beginning, middle and an end, the Universe exists in eternity, and eternity has no gain and no loss of any quantity but exists as an unchanging whole.
> >
> > A theological debate such as you wish is not appropriate for this list. But as Metellus has barred the Pontifex Maximus from posting to the Religio Romana list, there is not a list to take up this debate.
> >
> > Vade in pace Deorum
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato Piscino sal.
> > >
> > > Are you *absolutely sure* that you want to say that the gods are incapable of creation (creation is impossible)- and that They did not practice that power?
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > M. Moravius C. Catone dicit
> > > >
> > > > I did not call Sulla 'a male.' Such a notion is just too funny, and anyway it only shows your lack of understanding Latin greetings.
> > > >
> > > > You did, however, call me "creature" even though it was disrespectful of me and of my religious beliefs. Neither, Plotinus, Hawkings, nor I accept the irrational proposition that the cosmos was created, but rather that it results from natural process.
> > > >
> > > > Creatio enim est productio totius substantiae ex nihilo. Sed <ex nihilo nihil fit> est axioma ab omnibus indubitauter acceptum et evidenti experientia universali firmatum.
> > > >
> > > > Ergo creatio est impossibiles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Much as I applaud all those students, it doesn't really matter what *they* can do. It matters what *this* particular citizen can do - and she has explained clearly and succinctly what the circumstances are. I can use both of my legs, but just because some people who can also use both their legs are Olympic athletes doesn't mean I am :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that a *refusal* to use Latin greetings *just to be ornery* is not a very good example to set for new citizens. I also see where using proper greetings might free us from the kind of thing we saw when Piscinus addressed Sulla as "male".
> > > > >
> > > > > Still, I trust our praetura to do the right thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Cato,

Don't forget though that Uranus and Gaea preceeded Saturn and were the first two great primeval divinities with Urananus being the light and air of heaven and Gaea being the earth.

Vale,

Jean

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
>
> I believe you are correct; the original idea seems to have been that Chaos existed and then God took it and with it created everything. On a side note, Christian apologists have used the plural "Elohim" to support the idea of the Trinity. I *think* the idea of ex nihilo gained strength because it was seen as "necessary" that nothing exist in eternity except for God Himself.
>
> The pre-creational existence of Chaos is inescapably ancient; this very closely mirrors the ideas passed down by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. I particularly like the idea that there was only Chaos and then there was Kronos (Time), the Father of the rest of the gods (identified as Saturn by the Romans) - the concept of time itself beginning with the first actions of the gods is a pretty cool one.
>
> Unfortunately Kronos/Saturn's story is not as ... happy ... as it might have been, what with being overthrown and killed by His son Zeus/Iuppiter... and of course Kronos/Saturn eating all His children is kind of off the hook to begin with.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,
> >
> > I read somewhere about Jewish thought that before the "creation" there are Tohu and Bohu whith which Elohim not created (Elohim is a plural, the monotheism of Jewish was made from a plural god) but arranged the word.
> >
> > If this is true about Jewish thought, the same was shared by Greek with Chaos.
> >
> > The Ancient did not think the creation was from nothing.
> > Lucretius is the more precise about that in his book of the de rerum natura. "Nihil ex nihilo neque res ad nihilum revertit."
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>

Piscinus Catone dicit:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
>
> I believe you are correct; the original idea seems to have been that Chaos existed and then God took it and with it created everything. On a side note, Christian apologists have used the plural "Elohim" to support the idea of the Trinity. I *think* the idea of ex nihilo gained strength because it was seen as "necessary" that nothing exist in eternity except for God Himself.
>

Then what you are saying here is that ex nihilo is a human fiction. The formation of Kosmos is conceived as a reasoned ordering of matter from its chaotic state. It is a process of the infusion of the divine into matter to give it form and movement, and the dissolution by which the divine returns into its Origin from matter, in an ever continuous cycle. The Universe is both the physical universe we perceive through our bodily senses and the spiritual realms we perceive through other senses, and, too, the processes found in both. The Universe itself is an eternity. We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well. By "the Universe" I mean all of the possible universes that exist, and it is that Universe that exists in eternity.

> The pre-creational existence of Chaos is inescapably ancient; this very closely mirrors the ideas passed down by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. I particularly like the idea that there was only Chaos and then there was Kronos (Time), the Father of the rest of the gods (identified as Saturn by the Romans) - the concept of time itself beginning with the first actions of the gods is a pretty cool one.
>

Time is relative motion through space. So in a sense, what is meant by time begins with the big bang that puts things into motion. You focus on the Gods of myth as though They were our only Gods. That is not the case. Surely you know that we count the divine geniuses of our ancestors as Gods as well, a category that we call Lares. And there are other lesser gods, the Di inferi and semidivi, fauni and nymphae. But the Gods of myth are likewise within the temporal world of Nature, a product of and part of the natural universe. But even these are inferior deities to the Involuti who are cosmic deities in eternity. Kronos as well was said to derive from the Involuti, ultimately emmulating from the Henads, or multiplicity of divinity.

> Unfortunately Kronos/Saturn's story is not as ... happy ... as it might have been, what with being overthrown and killed by His son Zeus/Iuppiter... and of course Kronos/Saturn eating all His children is kind of off the hook to begin with.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

The only thing unfortunate is your inability to understand what myths are. If Kronos is time then any limited period of time can be called His child. An era is born from time, but ultimately ends and is consumed back into time. As Sallustius stated, 'On the Gods and the World', "people before now have regarded Kronos as time, and calling the divisions of time his sons say that the sons are swallowed by the father." There are other ways to treat myth than simply this allegorical means, but no where did anyone take myth to have a literal meaning as Christians take their own myths and as they try to impose on the religions traditions of others.

And what is that myth you celebrate, that a god killed his only son in a human sacrifice, as occurred with Orphius on a cross, or with Hercules on the crossed spokes of a wheel, and that his followers then celebrate him in a symbolic cannabalistic feast, eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis? How unfortunate that in practice and ritual you follow a myth with which you are so unfamiliar and so unaware of its meaning, blinded by such a literal interpretation as you have succumbed to.


The Goddess spoke to Parmenides:

"Come now, I shall tell thee, and do thou harken to my words, when thou hath heard it, the only two ways of inquiry that lie open to the intelligence:

"The first that 'Being exists' and that 'it is not possible for non-Being to exist,' is the way of certitude, for truth is its persuasive companion.

"The other, that 'Being is not' and that 'non-Being must needs be' - this I tell thee, is a path wholly unknowable which must never seduce thee. For thou can never come to know that which does not exist, because it is impossible; thou can neither grasp it, nor utter it, for only that which is possible to think is identical with that which can be."

Salve Jean,

I think your Roman name is fine ...but the Censors' cohors will need to approve it, although I don't see an issue with it at all. great choice!

I am a quaestor in NR, and one of the moderators of Newroman, however, mostly I'm just a proud Plebeian citizen who has been around a while, though no where nearly as long as some, here ...and still remember how confused I was when I first joined, so I like to be available to new citizens, and help them, if they need it, and I can. I noticed you joined Newroman, and I'm glad, since when you want to know things, you can ask there, and you will get straightforward answers without the addition of political stances. Those you will see in abundance here, and there's nothing wrong with that, but until you get sorted out who is who ...and what each faction's positions on things are, it can be confusing, which is why the Newroman list can be so helpful.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@...> wrote:
>
> Piscinus Catone dicit:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.

...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>
> Ave!
>
> Well the law dictionary definition is this:
>
> star chamber A court or group that engages in secret, harsh, or arbitrary
> procedures.
>
> Now, what body sounds like this in Nova Roma?
>

Salve,

The Back Alley.



Vale,


Anna Bucci

Ave!

A "star chamber" implies a group with the authority to hand out harsh and unjust
and official punishments.  I don't know much about the "Back Alley," but I'm
pretty sure its members have no legal authority to lord it over anyone.  Sharp,
critical, insulting language, no matter what the source (and there are several
sources around here), is tiresome and unpleasant but it's not "star chamber"
material.  Anyone who doesn't like the heat in the kitchen (or the Back
Alley) is free to go sit on the front porch.

Salve,

C. Terentius Varro
 "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




________________________________
From: lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 11:42:54 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo

 

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> Well the law dictionary definition is this:
>
> star chamber A court or group that engages in secret, harsh, or arbitrary
> procedures.
>
> Now, what body sounds like this in Nova Roma?
>

Salve,

The Back Alley.

Vale,

Anna Bucci







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete;
actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:

" Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of relativity.

Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor between the two"

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
valete
M. Hortensia Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> >
> > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.
>
> ...
>

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:

>
> Ave!
>
> A "star chamber" implies a group with the authority to hand out harsh and unjust
> and official punishments.  I don't know much about the "Back Alley," but I'm
> pretty sure its members have no legal authority to lord it over anyone.  Sharp,
> critical, insulting language, no matter what the source (and there are several
> sources around here), is tiresome and unpleasant but it's not "star chamber"
> material.  Anyone who doesn't like the heat in the kitchen (or the Back
> Alley) is free to go sit on the front porch.
>

Salve,

They do when they threaten to sue if they don't get their way.



Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salve Maria,

Thank you for sharing that.

How many factions are there and of what nature?

Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight! LOL!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Jean,
>
> I think your Roman name is fine ...but the Censors' cohors will need to approve it, although I don't see an issue with it at all. great choice!
>
> I am a quaestor in NR, and one of the moderators of Newroman, however, mostly I'm just a proud Plebeian citizen who has been around a while, though no where nearly as long as some, here ...and still remember how confused I was when I first joined, so I like to be available to new citizens, and help them, if they need it, and I can. I noticed you joined Newroman, and I'm glad, since when you want to know things, you can ask there, and you will get straightforward answers without the addition of political stances. Those you will see in abundance here, and there's nothing wrong with that, but until you get sorted out who is who ...and what each faction's positions on things are, it can be confusing, which is why the Newroman list can be so helpful.
>
> Vale bene,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve,

Yes, there are many fringe and/or crackpot cosmological models proposed on a regular basis.

Shu's paper was uploaded on arxiv.org (http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.1750v1), which is a repository for preprints. That means it's only a draft and hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal. That alone should mean that for non-specialists like us we shouldn't pay any attention to it since there's no way for us to evaluate whether it meets basic standards for internal coherence and squaring with known evidence in physics.

But, if you're curious, I found a blog post by a PhD physics student that rips Shu's draft apart: http://badphysics.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/nobang/ .

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:
>
> " Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of relativity.
>
> Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor between the two"
>
> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
> valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.
> >
> > ...
> >
>

Ave,

> Yes, there are many fringe and/or crackpot cosmological models proposed on a regular basis.

But the best one is Socrates' "the only thing I know is I know nothing."

Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Petronius Johanni s.p.d.,

> I've given thought to a name and think I like:
> Gaius Octavius Priscus

Funny, as I am French, althoug in France Jean is similar as English John and male, I thought Jean female name in English, so i imagined you as a woman and now seing your choice of a Latin name I was astonished.

She is a man! ;o)

> What do you think?

Octavius is a name overused, 42 citizens got it. But obviously you are not forced to search the eccentricity in the choice of your name.

Cura ut valeas.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Salvete;
that's what the internet is about free circulation of ideas, many novel to stimulate our thinking. John Moffat "Reinventing Gravity" has lots of novel ideas. The climate debates and subsequent debacle have shown us what 'peer-review' can be all about.

I haven't heard anyone from the physics community (other than your one lone student) say Dr. Shu's work is 'fringe' or 'crackpot' try and keep an open mind:)

I tend toward the Herclitean that the universe is fire (energy)
optime vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Yes, there are many fringe and/or crackpot cosmological models proposed on a regular basis.
>
> Shu's paper was uploaded on arxiv.org (http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.1750v1), which is a repository for preprints. That means it's only a draft and hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal. That alone should mean that for non-specialists like us we shouldn't pay any attention to it since there's no way for us to evaluate whether it meets basic standards for internal coherence and squaring with known evidence in physics.
>
> But, if you're curious, I found a blog post by a PhD physics student that rips Shu's draft apart: http://badphysics.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/nobang/ .
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete;
> > actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:
> >
> > " Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of relativity.
> >
> > Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor between the two"
> >
> > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
> > valete
> > M. Hortensia Maior
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Gualterus
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> >
>

Ave!

The climate debates and subsequent debacle have shown us what 'peer-review'
can be all about.

Ok every is going to be absolutely shocked but I am in agreement with Maior
here. But that agreement should be clarified that the reason there was such
a breakdown was because of the money and then political power involved that
fostered and reinforced the corruption. I don't see how money is going to
be involved in such a theoretical discussion. So, in that regard I tend to
lean towards Gualterus's point of view.

So everyone can faint now, There is one area that I actually agree with
Hortensia.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 12:50 PM, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete;
> that's what the internet is about free circulation of ideas, many novel to
> stimulate our thinking. John Moffat "Reinventing Gravity" has lots of novel
> ideas. The climate debates and subsequent debacle have shown us what
> 'peer-review' can be all about.
>
> I haven't heard anyone from the physics community (other than your one lone
> student) say Dr. Shu's work is 'fringe' or 'crackpot' try and keep an open
> mind:)
>
> I tend toward the Herclitean that the universe is fire (energy)
> optime vale
>
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Yes, there are many fringe and/or crackpot cosmological models proposed
> on a regular basis.
> >
> > Shu's paper was uploaded on arxiv.org (http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.1750v1),
> which is a repository for preprints. That means it's only a draft and hasn't
> been published in a peer-reviewed journal. That alone should mean that for
> non-specialists like us we shouldn't pay any attention to it since there's
> no way for us to evaluate whether it meets basic standards for internal
> coherence and squaring with known evidence in physics.
> >
> > But, if you're curious, I found a blog post by a PhD physics student that
> rips Shu's draft apart: http://badphysics.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/nobang/.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete;
> > > actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:
> > >
> > > " Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in
> which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of
> relativity.
> > >
> > > Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can
> be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the
> geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor
> between the two"
> > >
> > > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
> > > valete
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve,
> > > >
> > > > Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades
> that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also,
> while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually
> an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Gualterus
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present
> physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs
> stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others
> shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well
> that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may
> be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other
> universes as well.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salue Prisce,

> Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!

Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!

Vale,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

Ave, Annia.

Wrong.  A threat to sue has no power over anyone.  (It may strike you speechless
with fear, but that's your choice.)  The suit itself has no authority,
especially if it's groundless.  If there is an actual suit, only
the determination of the court has any authority.  People can threaten you with
lawsuits every day and twice on Sunday, but that's not a star chamber
proceeding.  They've got no real power.  What they do have is your goat -- and
sometimes that's all they want.  Don't give anyone that kind of power over you.

Especially in Nova Roma we should be able to work out disputes, since we
theoretically have more in common as a group than do macroworlders.  We're
supposed to have Romanitas.  If I had a real dispute with you, Annia, and if you
seriously wanted to work it out, if WE seriously wanted to work it out, we COULD
work it out.  That should be true of all of us in this community.  We destroy
our Republic with all of this threat mongering, petty disputation, and
selfishness.  If we really want this experiment to succeed we can make it
happen.

The culprit I believe deeply is this Internet culture of ours.  We can't look at
one another eye-to-eye.  Consequently, it's much easier to mistreat a stranger. 
I remember when you were Governor of Nova Britannia you led one of the most
active (maybe THE most active) provinces in Nova Roma, certainly in North
America.  But that's because you and your citizens were able to relate to each
other on a personal level.  I don't think you would have been nearly so
successful had you depended solely on electronic interaction.  We've got to stop
this blustering and threatening and treat one another with the respect due a
human being, let alone a Roman.  We drive talented, dedicated people away with
this pettiness.  It's time to take another road.  We need STATESMEN and
STATESWOMEN who will come forward and lead us down that road to unity and peace.

Until one steps forward I will begin the journey by offering a sincere apology
to anyone I might have offended in the past, or to whom I might have spoken
harshly or with disrespect.  Please forgive me, and let us walk on together as
brothers and sisters from this point.  Who will be next?

Salve,

Varro

"If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




________________________________
From: lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 1:17:05 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo

 

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> A "star chamber" implies a group with the authority to hand out harsh and
>unjust
>
> and official punishments.  I don't know much about the "Back Alley," but I'm

> pretty sure its members have no legal authority to lord it over anyone. 
>Sharp,
>
> critical, insulting language, no matter what the source (and there are several

> sources around here), is tiresome and unpleasant but it's not "star chamber"
> material.  Anyone who doesn't like the heat in the kitchen (or the Back
> Alley) is free to go sit on the front porch.
>

Salve,

They do when they threaten to sue if they don't get their way.

Vale,

Anna Bucci







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Maior,

An interesting hypothesis to say the least but as I think Gualterus correctly points out, it is embryonic at best.

The real problem with cosmology, and theoretical physics, is that incredibly complex sets of mathemetaical calculations can always be crafted to fit just about any set of observed data.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:
>
> " Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of relativity.
>
> Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor between the two"
>
> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
> valete
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.
> >
> > ...
> >
>

Salve Dexter,

Yes she is! LOL.

I wasn't aware that, as a nomen, Octavius was overused. The list of cognomen on the website clearly have some marked overused, but no such information appears to be provided for nomen.

How does one determine this?

Vale,

Gaius "Octavius ?" Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Johanni s.p.d.,
>
> > I've given thought to a name and think I like:
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> Funny, as I am French, althoug in France Jean is similar as English John and male, I thought Jean female name in English, so i imagined you as a woman and now seing your choice of a Latin name I was astonished.
>
> She is a man! ;o)
>
> > What do you think?
>
> Octavius is a name overused, 42 citizens got it. But obviously you are not forced to search the eccentricity in the choice of your name.
>
> Cura ut valeas.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Ave,

LOL!!!!

Now that is just funny. That I think is the best joke you every used. But
I was referring to the CP and its impiety ruling on Consul Albucius. Which
is a serious and dangerous matter.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:42 AM, lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Robert
> Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > Well the law dictionary definition is this:
> >
> > star chamber A court or group that engages in secret, harsh, or arbitrary
> > procedures.
> >
> > Now, what body sounds like this in Nova Roma?
> >
>
> Salve,
>
> The Back Alley.
>
> Vale,
>
> Anna Bucci
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:

>
> Ave, Annia.
>
> Wrong.  A threat to sue has no power over anyone. 

Salve

It does in NR.



Vale

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>
> Ave,
>
> LOL!!!!
>
> Now that is just funny. That I think is the best joke you every used. But
> I was referring to the CP and its impiety ruling on Consul Albucius. Which
> is a serious and dangerous matter.
>
>

Salve


Because the internet is serious business.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salve Metelle,

Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Gaius Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
>
> Salue Prisce,
>
> > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!
>
> Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>
> Vale,
>
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>

Ave C. Octavi Prisce,

No problem, I just wanted to make you know that this name had many owners, but it is allowed to be among a numerous gens.

I am confused if you would change your mind because of my reflexion. Octavius indeed is a good choice...

Vale optime.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Salve, Varo!

Sir, you speak my mind, and you do so far more eloquently than I ever could. Gratias Tibi Ago.

Vale quam optime,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>
>
> Salve Metelle,
>
> Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
>
> ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
> attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
> point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salue Prisce,
>> >
>>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!
>> >
>> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Lucky for us being Latin fluency is not the extent of Romanitas. ;)

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:57 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
<fororom@...>wrote:

>
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Metelle,
> >
> > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
> >
> > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
> > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
> > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
> > Vale, et valete!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
>
> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salue Prisce,
> >> >
> >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight! LOL!
> >> >
> >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Dexter,

Thank you for clearing that up. I was told by C. Maria Caeca that ultimately my choice had to be approved by the Censors' cohors. I thought you were indicating my choice would be rejected by that body.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> Ave C. Octavi Prisce,
>
> No problem, I just wanted to make you know that this name had many owners, but it is allowed to be among a numerous gens.
>
> I am confused if you would change your mind because of my reflexion. Octavius indeed is a good choice...
>
> Vale optime.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Ave,

Sadly, I think we're never going to find a solution to this morbid compulsion to
squabble that affects so many of us by looking into constitutions or legal and
religious texts.  Our last, best hope clearly must be the DSM IV.  

Salve,

Varro
 "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




________________________________
From: lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 3:11:01 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo

 

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:
>
> Ave, Annia.
>
> Wrong.  A threat to sue has no power over anyone. 

Salve

It does in NR.

Vale

Anna Bucci







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Actually there is a way. Just follow the law. Maine Law and Nova Roman
law.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:

>
>
> Ave,
>
> Sadly, I think we're never going to find a solution to this morbid
> compulsion to
> squabble that affects so many of us by looking into constitutions or legal
> and
> religious texts. Our last, best hope clearly must be the DSM IV.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Varro
> "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would
> it?"
> --Albert Einstein
>
> ________________________________
> From: lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@... <lathyrus77%40yahoo.com>>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 3:11:01 PM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Terry
> Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave, Annia.
> >
> > Wrong.� A threat to sue has no� power over anyone.�
>
> Salve
>
> It does in NR.
>
> Vale
>
> Anna Bucci
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve Dexter,
>
> Yes she is! LOL.
>
> I wasn't aware that, as a nomen, Octavius was overused. The list of cognomen
> on the website clearly have some marked overused, but no such information
> appears to be provided for nomen.
>
> How does one determine this?
>
> ATS: The real issue is with the cognomina, not the nomina such as
> Octavius. If the nomen and cognomen are the same as those of another citizen,
> one must apply to join that person¹s family; if the cognomen is common, we
> recommend that it be changed as this is the most distinctive (and most
> frequently used) portion of the name, and it becomes very confusing if we have
> umpteen people with the same cognomen, especially if they are active, as many
> are not. Indeed there are many Octavii, but that is not a problem unless
> there are Octavii Prisci, which I would have to check. Note that Petronius
> Dexter and I are both senior Latinists here, and censorial scribae...and
> Petronius prefers to use his nomen rather than his cognomen. The custom is to
> use the cognomen in semi-formal situations, the praenomen in extremely
> informal ones (family and close friends), and the full tria nomina in formal
> situations.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius "Octavius ?" Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > C. Petronius Johanni s.p.d.,
>> >
>>> > > I've given thought to a name and think I like:
>>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>> >
>> > Funny, as I am French, althoug in France Jean is similar as English John
>> and male, I thought Jean female name in English, so i imagined you as a woman
>> and now seing your choice of a Latin name I was astonished.
>> >
>> > She is a man! ;o)
>> >
>>> > > What do you think?
>> >
>> > Octavius is a name overused, 42 citizens got it. But obviously you are not
>> forced to search the eccentricity in the choice of your name.
>> >
>> > Cura ut valeas.
>> >
>> > C. Petronius Dexter
>> > Arcoiali scribebat
>> > Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I think is at least one more (two now it seems) Priscus besides myself in NR
but I don't know if he is active or not.

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:07 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
<fororom@...>wrote:

> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus,
> > sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Salve Dexter,
> >
> > Yes she is! LOL.
> >
> > I wasn't aware that, as a nomen, Octavius was overused. The list of
> cognomen
> > on the website clearly have some marked overused, but no such information
> > appears to be provided for nomen.
> >
> > How does one determine this?
> >
> > ATS: The real issue is with the cognomina, not the nomina such as
> > Octavius. If the nomen and cognomen are the same as those of another
> citizen,
> > one must apply to join that person¹s family; if the cognomen is common,
> we
> > recommend that it be changed as this is the most distinctive (and most
> > frequently used) portion of the name, and it becomes very confusing if we
> have
> > umpteen people with the same cognomen, especially if they are active, as
> many
> > are not. Indeed there are many Octavii, but that is not a problem unless
> > there are Octavii Prisci, which I would have to check. Note that
> Petronius
> > Dexter and I are both senior Latinists here, and censorial scribae...and
> > Petronius prefers to use his nomen rather than his cognomen. The custom
> is to
> > use the cognomen in semi-formal situations, the praenomen in extremely
> > informal ones (family and close friends), and the full tria nomina in
> formal
> > situations.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gaius "Octavius ?" Priscus
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com<Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>>
> ,
> > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > C. Petronius Johanni s.p.d.,
> >> >
> >>> > > I've given thought to a name and think I like:
> >>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >> >
> >> > Funny, as I am French, althoug in France Jean is similar as English
> John
> >> and male, I thought Jean female name in English, so i imagined you as a
> woman
> >> and now seing your choice of a Latin name I was astonished.
> >> >
> >> > She is a man! ;o)
> >> >
> >>> > > What do you think?
> >> >
> >> > Octavius is a name overused, 42 citizens got it. But obviously you are
> not
> >> forced to search the eccentricity in the choice of your name.
> >> >
> >> > Cura ut valeas.
> >> >
> >> > C. Petronius Dexter
> >> > Arcoiali scribebat
> >> > Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

As you see, I'm new here, too. Since I have been religio Romana for several
months, I knew that some people will disagree with you being in the religion.
But since you're from from different religion, all religions are accepted here.
 Tibiria Octavia Aculeo




________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 3:59:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interested in Joining Nova Roma.

Ave!

Lucky for us being Latin fluency is not the extent of Romanitas. ;)

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:57 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
<fororom@...>wrote:

>
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Metelle,
> >
> > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
> >
> > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
> > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
> > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
> > Vale, et valete!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
>
> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salue Prisce,
> >> >
> >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!
> >> >
> >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gai Octavi Prisce,

> Thank you for clearing that up. I was told by C. Maria Caeca that
> ultimately my choice had to be approved by the Censors' cohors.
> I thought you were indicating my choice would be rejected by that body.

Welcome to the Octavii. You have chosen a most distinguished gens, one that has
provided Nova Roma with a Consul and Censor, a Praetor, a Tribune, and a current
provincial Governor. In addition, the web site has - for most of its existence
- been under the stewardship of either of two Octavii, during which time it
flourished as Nova Roma's most successful project.

I, the founder of Gens Octavia, am at present a non-citizen of Nova Roma in
protest of certain nefarious actions perpetrated by persons who usurped
authority from our Founders; no doubt you will soon learn the story (caution:
trust no one who calls himself a priest!) I remain an observer of affairs in
the disintegrating Republic, as does Diana Octavia, a former Tribune and the
first woman to run for the Consulship.

Welcome to Nova Roma's greatest gens.

Vale,
M. Octavius Gracchus,
Consular and peregrinus.

Ave,

Obedience of the law is a necessary and indispensable duty, but it only begins
to address the depth of the problems we face.  Remember that line from Jurassic
Park:  "Life will find a way?"  Here, all too often, it's "hatefulness will find
a way."  Too many stiff necks and willful firebrands.  Too many willing to
follow the laws, provided the laws support their position.  Someone show me a
desire, the smallest shadow of a desire, the tiniest will to find a COMPROMISE
and some MIDDLE GROUND on the issues dividing us, and then I will begin to
rejoice to see the day of peace at hand!  Someone, preferably and ideally a
magistrate, step forward and show us the road to that place of conciliation! 
Someone of distinction swallow your pride and put love of the Republic before a
selfish desire to have everything your own petty, small-minded way!  I
challenge that person of good will and Gravitas to stand up and lead.  I and
many others will follow you gladly and at once, and you will certainly find a
place in the history of Nova Roma.  This is our time of crisis and we have a
visceral need for real leaders, not placeholders and trimmers.  For the good of
the Republic let statesmen and stateswomen come forth, step from the shadows! 
Anyone that says that with honest effort this can't be done is part of the
problem.  Without that effort, and it requires MUCH effort, Nova Roma is facing
perilous times.

Salve,

Varro
 "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 4:06:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo

Ave!

Actually there is a way.  Just follow the law.  Maine Law and Nova Roman
law.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Terry Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:

>
>
> Ave,
>
> Sadly, I think we're never going to find a solution to this morbid
> compulsion to
> squabble that affects so many of us by looking into constitutions or legal
> and
> religious texts.  Our last, best hope clearly must be the DSM IV.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Varro
>  "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would
> it?"
> --Albert Einstein
>
> ________________________________
> From: lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@... <lathyrus77%40yahoo.com>>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 3:11:01 PM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Terry
> Wilson <twilson6356@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave, Annia.
> >
> > Wrong.  A threat to sue has no power over anyone.Â
>
> Salve
>
> It does in NR.
>
> Vale
>
> Anna Bucci
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Servilio Prisco C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus,
> sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve,
>
> I think is at least one more (two now it seems) Priscus besides myself in NR
> but I don't know if he is active or not.
>
> ATS: The real issue, however, is the nomen-cognomen combination. I think
> you are the only Servilius Priscus, and know that we are well rid of that
> other goose-stepping Priscus and his neo pals. I’d have to check to see if
> there are other Octavii Prisci (or even other Prisci). I do think that there
> is one other Priscus.
>
> Vale,
> Quintus Servilius Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:07 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
> <fororom@... <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> >wrote:
>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus,
>>> > > sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Dexter,
>>> > >
>>> > > Yes she is! LOL.
>>> > >
>>> > > I wasn't aware that, as a nomen, Octavius was overused. The list of
>> > cognomen
>>> > > on the website clearly have some marked overused, but no such
>>> information
>>> > > appears to be provided for nomen.
>>> > >
>>> > > How does one determine this?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: The real issue is with the cognomina, not the nomina such as
>>> > > Octavius. If the nomen and cognomen are the same as those of another
>> > citizen,
>>> > > one must apply to join that person¹s family; if the cognomen is common,
>> > we
>>> > > recommend that it be changed as this is the most distinctive (and most
>>> > > frequently used) portion of the name, and it becomes very confusing if

we

>> > have
>>> > > umpteen people with the same cognomen, especially if they are active, as
>> > many
>>> > > are not. Indeed there are many Octavii, but that is not a problem
>>> unless
>>> > > there are Octavii Prisci, which I would have to check. Note that
>> > Petronius
>>> > > Dexter and I are both senior Latinists here, and censorial scribae...and
>>> > > Petronius prefers to use his nomen rather than his cognomen. The custom
>> > is to
>>> > > use the cognomen in semi-formal situations, the praenomen in extremely
>>> > > informal ones (family and close friends), and the full tria nomina in
>> > formal
>>> > > situations.
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale,
>>> > >
>>> > > Gaius "Octavius ?" Priscus
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com<Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> >
>> > ,
>>> > > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > C. Petronius Johanni s.p.d.,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > I've given thought to a name and think I like:
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Funny, as I am French, althoug in France Jean is similar as English
>> > John
>>>> > >> and male, I thought Jean female name in English, so i imagined you as

a

>> > woman
>>>> > >> and now seing your choice of a Latin name I was astonished.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > She is a man! ;o)
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > What do you think?
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Octavius is a name overused, 42 citizens got it. But obviously you

are

>> > not
>>>> > >> forced to search the eccentricity in the choice of your name.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Cura ut valeas.
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > C. Petronius Dexter
>>>>> > >> > Arcoiali scribebat
>>>>> > >> > Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Varro...

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Varro scripsit:

> Ave,
>
> Sadly, I think we're never going to find a solution to this morbid
> compulsion to
> squabble that affects so many of us by looking into constitutions or legal
> and
> religious texts. Our last, best hope clearly must be the DSM IV.
> Salve,
>
> Varro
> "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would
> it?"
> --Albert Einstein
>

I think we'd be a new chapter, ;-)

Vale - Venator


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave, Venator!

Good one!

Salve,

Varro
 "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




________________________________
From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 4:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ex nihilo

 
Salve Varro...

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Varro scripsit:

> Ave,
>
> Sadly, I think we're never going to find a solution to this morbid
> compulsion to
> squabble that affects so many of us by looking into constitutions or legal
> and
> religious texts. Our last, best hope clearly must be the DSM IV.
> Salve,
>
> Varro
> "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would
> it?"
> --Albert Einstein
>

I think we'd be a new chapter, ;-)

Vale - Venator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Jeanae sal.

Aha! You're right. Gaea was the first One Who sprang out of Chaos; she apparently fathered both Ouranos and Okeanos. He was both son and husband of Gaea. Their son Kronos, angry that Ouranos had imprisoned His children in Tartarus, rebelled (egged on by Gaea who gave Him an iron sickle), castrated and overthrew Ouranos.

"Verily at first Khaos (Air) came to be, but next wide-bosomed Gaea (Earth), the ever-sure foundation of all the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympos, and dim Tartaros (Hell) in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Khaos (Air) came forth Erebos (Darkness) and black Nyx (Night); but of Nyx (Night) were born Aither (Light) and Hemera (Day), whom she conceived and bore from union in love with Erebos. And Gaia (Earth) first bore starry Ouranos (Heaven), equal to herself, to cover her on every side. And she brought forth long Ourea (Mountains), graceful haunts of the goddess Nymphai who dwell amongst the glens of the mountains. She bare also the fruitless deep with his raging swell, Pontus (Sea), without sweet union of love. But afterwards she lay with Ouranos and bare deep-swirling Okeanos, Koios and Krios and Hyperion and Iapetos, Theia and Rheia, Themis and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoibe and lovely Tethys." - Hesiod "Theogony" 116ff

Contrast this to Ovid:

"Ere land and sea and the all-covering sky were made, in the whole world the countenance of nature was the same, all one, well named Chaos, a raw and undivided mass, naught but a lifeless bulk, with warring seeds of ill-joined elements compressed together. No Titan [Helios the Sun] as yet poured light upon the world, no waxing Phoebe [Selene the Moon] her crescent filled anew, nor in the ambient air yet hung the earth, self-balanced, equipoised, nor Amphitrite's [the Sea's] arms embraced the long far margin of the land. Though there were land and sea and air, the land no foot could tread, no creature swim the sea, the air was lightless; nothing kept its form, all objects were at odds, since in one mass cold essence fought with hot, and moist with dry, and hard with soft and light with things of weight. This strife a Deus (God) [the elder Eros or Khronos?], with nature's blessing, solved; who severed land from sky and sea from land, and from the denser vapors set apart the ethereal sky; and, each from the blind heap resolved and freed, he fastened in its place appropriate in peace and harmony. The fiery weightless force of heaven's vault (Ouranos) flashed up and claimed the topmost citadel; next came the air in lightness and in place; the thicker earth with grosser elements sank burdened by its weight; lowest and last the girdling waters pent the solid globe. So into shape whatever god it was reduced the primal matter and prescribed its several parts. Then first, to make the earth even on every side, he rounded it into a mighty disc, then bade the sea extend and rise under the rushing winds, and gird the shores of the encircled earth...Scarce had he thus all things in finite bounds divided when the Sidera (Stars), in darkness blind long buried, over all the spangled sky began to gleam; and, that no part or place should lack fit forms of life, the firmament he made the home of gods and goddesses and the bright constellations; in the sea he set the shining fish to swim; the land received the beasts, the gusty air the birds." - Ovid, "Metamorphoses" 1.1ff

"Ouranos (Sky) fathered other sons on Ge (Earth), namely the Titanes: Okeanos, Koios, Hyperion, Kreios, Iapetos, and Kronos the youngest; also daughters called Titanides : Tethys, Rhea, Themis, Mnemosyne, Phoibe, Dione, and Theia." - Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 1. 2

The Romans seem to have equated the goddess Tellus (and Her male counterpart Tellumo) as the earth, with Iuppiter being the lord of heaven after deposing His own father Saturn. The connection between Tellus and Gaea is a little confusing, as I'm not sure if Tellus was considered a goddess of creation at the beginning.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "jeancourdant" <jeancourdant@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
>
> Don't forget though that Uranus and Gaea preceeded Saturn and were the first two great primeval divinities with Urananus being the light and air of heaven and Gaea being the earth.
>
> Vale,
>
> Jean
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Petronio Dextero sal.
> >
> > I believe you are correct; the original idea seems to have been that Chaos existed and then God took it and with it created everything. On a side note, Christian apologists have used the plural "Elohim" to support the idea of the Trinity. I *think* the idea of ex nihilo gained strength because it was seen as "necessary" that nothing exist in eternity except for God Himself.
> >
> > The pre-creational existence of Chaos is inescapably ancient; this very closely mirrors the ideas passed down by the Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. I particularly like the idea that there was only Chaos and then there was Kronos (Time), the Father of the rest of the gods (identified as Saturn by the Romans) - the concept of time itself beginning with the first actions of the gods is a pretty cool one.
> >
> > Unfortunately Kronos/Saturn's story is not as ... happy ... as it might have been, what with being overthrown and killed by His son Zeus/Iuppiter... and of course Kronos/Saturn eating all His children is kind of off the hook to begin with.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,
> > >
> > > I read somewhere about Jewish thought that before the "creation" there are Tohu and Bohu whith which Elohim not created (Elohim is a plural, the monotheism of Jewish was made from a plural god) but arranged the word.
> > >
> > > If this is true about Jewish thought, the same was shared by Greek with Chaos.
> > >
> > > The Ancient did not think the creation was from nothing.
> > > Lucretius is the more precise about that in his book of the de rerum natura. "Nihil ex nihilo neque res ad nihilum revertit."
> > >
> > > Valete.
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > Arcoiali scribebat
> > > Pridie Nonas Septembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > >
> >
>

Cato Piscino sal.

Among other things, this statement/question:

"...eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed
in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis?"

betrays an incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of any of these three ancient mythologies. It is simply, and demonstrably, incorrect.

I see that, naturally, you cannot comment simply on the ideas of the discussion, but must seemingly by necessity turn it into a caricaturization of Christianity. That's ... unfortunate.

Vale,

Cato

Cato Octavio Prisco (pro tempore) sal.

I, too, thought you were a woman :)

I'll use your (impending) Roman name now lol

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Jeanae sal.

Salve Scholastica,

That is good to know as my latin skills could surely use improving.

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
> >
> >
> > Salve Metelle,
> >
> > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
> >
> > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
> > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
> > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
> > Vale, et valete!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salue Prisce,
> >> >
> >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!
> >> >
> >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Aculeo,

I'm confused, is that post directed to me?

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Christina Moseley <cheetahgirl5@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> As you see, I'm new here, too. Since I have been religio Romana for several
> months, I knew that some people will disagree with you being in the religion.
> But since you're from from different religion, all religions are accepted here.
>  Tibiria Octavia Aculeo
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 3:59:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interested in Joining Nova Roma.
>
> Ave!
>
> Lucky for us being Latin fluency is not the extent of Romanitas. ;)
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:57 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
> <fororom@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Metelle,
> > >
> > > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
> > >
> > > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
> > > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
> > > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
> > >
> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> > >
> > > Vale, et valete!
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> > Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
> >
> > > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Salue Prisce,
> > >> >
> > >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!  LOL!
> > >> >
> > >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
> > >> >
> > >> > Vale,
> > >> >
> > >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > 
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Gracche,

Thank you for the welcome ancestor! Thank you too for that bit of background of the gens Octavii here in Nova Roma.

I can see there is a lot going on here and a lot for me to bone up on.

For now, I have to read, read, read, and ask a great many questions as I wade through this most fascinating society.

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Octavius Gracchus" <octaviusgracchus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Gai Octavi Prisce,
>
> > Thank you for clearing that up. I was told by C. Maria Caeca that
> > ultimately my choice had to be approved by the Censors' cohors.
> > I thought you were indicating my choice would be rejected by that body.
>
> Welcome to the Octavii. You have chosen a most distinguished gens, one that has
> provided Nova Roma with a Consul and Censor, a Praetor, a Tribune, and a current
> provincial Governor. In addition, the web site has - for most of its existence
> - been under the stewardship of either of two Octavii, during which time it
> flourished as Nova Roma's most successful project.
>
> I, the founder of Gens Octavia, am at present a non-citizen of Nova Roma in
> protest of certain nefarious actions perpetrated by persons who usurped
> authority from our Founders; no doubt you will soon learn the story (caution:
> trust no one who calls himself a priest!) I remain an observer of affairs in
> the disintegrating Republic, as does Diana Octavia, a former Tribune and the
> first woman to run for the Consulship.
>
> Welcome to Nova Roma's greatest gens.
>
> Vale,
> M. Octavius Gracchus,
> Consular and peregrinus.
>

Salve Piscine;
you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring, but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better myth, I think;-)

Regulus in his research has found that Dionysios is a form of Osiris and Jesus the latest scholarship pointing to Serapis-Osiris

optime vale
Maior

Historia Augusta 8
From Hadrian Augustus to Servianus22 the consul, greeting. The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. 2 There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. 3 There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. 4 Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, p401by others to worship Christ.

>
> Cato Piscino sal.
>
> Among other things, this statement/question:
>
> "...eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed
> in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis?"
>
> betrays an incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of any of these three ancient mythologies. It is simply, and demonstrably, incorrect.
>
> I see that, naturally, you cannot comment simply on the ideas of the discussion, but must seemingly by necessity turn it into a caricaturization of Christianity. That's ... unfortunate.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>

Salve Varro;

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Varro scripsit:

>
> Ave, Venator!
>
> Good one!
>
> Salve,
>
> Varro
>  "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
> --Albert Einstein
>

Yeah, it seems the inmates are not only in charge of the asylum
sometimes, but are also manning roadblocks around the place.

However, to the other point you raise in this thread.

With a very few exceptions, I am willing to work with anyone whose
goal is the same as mine, building a Res Public Nova Romanii. I do
not even mind differing approaches, so long as they are reasoned,
reasonable and not self-aggrandizing.

I think one thing that would help very greatly is changing our
Constitution; banning anyone from holding more than one important
office at a time, reversing Guiderian's maxim; "klotzen nicht
klechern" to "klechern nicht klotzen." (I know, my German isn't very
good.)

Kind of unbinding the faces...

Historical precedence will rear its woolly head, I am sure. But some
of the same wool-gatherers innovate when it suits their purposes.

I'll stop now, before this descends further into ill-mannered repartee.

Vale - Venator

Salve G Octavius;

If I may buck the trend?

I thought Jean, as in John, when I saw your name. =)

Vale - P Ullerius Stephanus (founder of the longest lasting,
ahistorical Gens ,-)

Cato Maiori sal.

"A woodland Phrygian boy, the gorgeous Attis, conquered the towered goddess with
pure love. She wanted to keep him as her shrine's guardian, and said, 'Desire to
be a boy always.' He promised what was asked and declared, 'If I lie, let the
Venus I cheat with be my last.' He cheats, and in the Nympha Sagaritis stops
being what he was: the goddess' wrath punished him. She slashes the tree and
cuts the Naiad down. The Naiad dies: her fate was the tree's. He goes mad, and
imagines that the bedroom roof is falling and bolts to Dindymus' heights. He
cries, 'Away torches!', 'Away whips!', and often swears the Palestine goddesses
have him. He even hacked his body with a jagged stone, and dragged his long hair
in squalid dirt, shouting, 'I deserved it; my blood is the penalty. Ah, death to
the parts which have ruined me!' 'Ah, death to them!' he said, and cropped his
groin's weight. Suddenly no signs of manhood remained. His madness became a
model: soft-skinned acolytes toss their hair and cut their worthless organs." -
Ovid, Fasti 4.222

A "much better myth"? Yikes!

The vast - even overwhelming - majority of accredited contemporary academic
scholarship accepts that the supposed links - first posited by Sir James Frazer
in his "The Golden Bough" in AD 1906 - between the so-called "mystery religions"
and Christianity are completely manufactured by his early 20th-century
imagination.

What we know of these mystery religions - specifically those of Attis and
Mithras - are known almost entirely from Christian sources repudiating them; the
actual scholars of these myths recognize that, contrary to the imagined and
wishful thinking of those desperate to "prove" their validity in some sort of
contrast to Christian sources, much of the contemplative and esoteric
foundations of the mystery cults were derived *from* Christianity because of its
growing popularity and great appeal to the masses of the people.

There is a reason that the cult of Cybele and Attis was basically suppressed until the time of Claudius; its practices (self-mutilation, frenzies, etc.) were repugnant to the Romans and it was not until the time of Claudius that Roman citizens were allowed to be practitioners.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Piscine;
> you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring, but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better myth, I think;-)

C. Maria Caeca C. Octavio Prisco sal,

And she is a very excellent teacher, too! She'd have to be ...any correct Latin I have, I learned from her ...and *that* is an accomplishment of which she could be more than justly proud, LOL!

I'll admit, I made the same gender assumption until I saw our Roman name ...and then I was heartily glad that I hadn't yet sent my usual explanation/invitation to you, concerning the Matronae list, LOL!

Vale bene,
CMC, who thinks she mislead you, unintentionally, about the role the censors' cohors plays in choosing Roman names. Had thee been a problem you would have heard from them, otherwise, what you choose is perfectly acceptable!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

Not this again. That letter is considered to be a late forgery just as I pointed out when it was brought up in debate last year.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Piscine;
> you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring, but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better myth, I think;-)
>
> Regulus in his research has found that Dionysios is a form of Osiris and Jesus the latest scholarship pointing to Serapis-Osiris
>
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> Historia Augusta 8
> From Hadrian Augustus to Servianus22 the consul, greeting. The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. 2 There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. 3 There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. 4 Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, p401by others to worship Christ.
>
> >
> > Cato Piscino sal.
> >
> > Among other things, this statement/question:
> >
> > "...eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed
> > in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis?"
> >
> > betrays an incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of any of these three ancient mythologies. It is simply, and demonstrably, incorrect.
> >
> > I see that, naturally, you cannot comment simply on the ideas of the discussion, but must seemingly by necessity turn it into a caricaturization of Christianity. That's ... unfortunate.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve Scholastica,
>
> That is good to know as my latin skills could surely use improving.
>
>
> ATS: As could those of many here. I teach several Latin courses, two
> traditional, based on the Wheelock text, and three assimilation-method, based
> on a European text, Le Latin Sans Peine, which is supposedly available in
> French-Latin and Italian-Latin, but the French version went out of print a few
> years ago and I have heard that the Italian one is being revised or whatever.
> However, there is something called emule which might help...
>
> The introductory Wheelock course will begin Monday, US Labor Day, but the
> text is not necessary the first week of class. If you can arm yourself with
> the text (Wheelock Sixth Edition) in time, you are welcome to join us. The
> Combined Assimil (called Sermo Latinus I & II) class will begin September
> 13th, and the two separate ones (Sermo I and Sermo II) will begin on the 20th.
> We require possession of the text before registering for our free courses, but
> in the case of Grammatica Latina (Wheelock) I, we can admit students up to
> about 10 days after the start of class.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Octavius Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis,
>>> peregrinisque
>>> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Metelle,
>>> > >
>>> > > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting

our

>>> > > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I >>>

shall

>>> > > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
>>> > >
>>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete!
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salue Prisce,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!

 LOL!

>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Vale,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Varro omnibus sal.,

I have been gently informed by a diligent magistrate that I have royally screwed
up (my words, not his) my Latin salutations and closings in the postings I made
earlier today.  Mea culpa!  I will try to do better, I swear it!!   But, unlike
Aylmer in Hawthorne's short story "The Birthmark," who was unable to see his
wife's beauty because of his fixation on a small birthmark on her face, I hope
everyone who read those postings was able to overlook the linguistic mistake and
get at the real message I was trying to convey, whether you agreed with the
message or not. 

Optime valete.

Varro (whose head now hangs in great shame as he shuffles off into a
self-imposed exile of uncertain duration)
 "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
--Albert Einstein




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Cato,

LOL!

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Octavio Prisco (pro tempore) sal.
>
> I, too, thought you were a woman :)
>
> I'll use your (impending) Roman name now lol
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Jeanae sal.
>

Salve Stephane,

You were the only one I think.

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 6:39:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: neque ex nihilo neque ad nihilum

 
Salve G Octavius;

If I may buck the trend?

I thought Jean, as in John, when I saw your name. =)

Vale - P Ullerius Stephanus (founder of the longest lasting,
ahistorical Gens ,-)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I don't think anyone from the physics community has even paid much attention to Shu's idea. It's certainly "fringe"; whether it's crackpot I'll let the peer-review process decide.

As for "climategate", are you suggesting that one supposed failure in the process means that it doesn't normally work? Moreover, is there any credible alternative to having specialists in the friend review and evaluate peer work?

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete;
> that's what the internet is about free circulation of ideas, many novel to stimulate our thinking. John Moffat "Reinventing Gravity" has lots of novel ideas. The climate debates and subsequent debacle have shown us what 'peer-review' can be all about.
>
> I haven't heard anyone from the physics community (other than your one lone student) say Dr. Shu's work is 'fringe' or 'crackpot' try and keep an open mind:)
>
> I tend toward the Herclitean that the universe is fire (energy)
> optime vale
> Maior
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Yes, there are many fringe and/or crackpot cosmological models proposed on a regular basis.
> >
> > Shu's paper was uploaded on arxiv.org (http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.1750v1), which is a repository for preprints. That means it's only a draft and hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal. That alone should mean that for non-specialists like us we shouldn't pay any attention to it since there's no way for us to evaluate whether it meets basic standards for internal coherence and squaring with known evidence in physics.
> >
> > But, if you're curious, I found a blog post by a PhD physics student that rips Shu's draft apart: http://badphysics.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/nobang/ .
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete;
> > > actually new theories are posited, read Wun-Yi Shu:
> > >
> > > " Shu has developed an innovative new description of the Universe in which the roles of time space and mass are related in new kind of relativity.
> > >
> > > Shu's idea is that time and space are not independent entities but can be converted back and forth between each other. In his formulation of the geometry of spacetime, the speed of light is simply the conversion factor between the two"
> > >
> > > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
> > > valete
> > > M. Hortensia Maior
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve,
> > > >
> > > > Actually, good evidence has been accumulating in the last two decades that the expansion is accelerating, so there will be no collapse. Also, while it is very tempting to speak of a "before" the big bang, it's actually an incoherent claim since time started with the big bang.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Gualterus
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "marcushoratius" <MHoratius@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Piscinus Catone dicit:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > ...We may speak of a Big Bang once occurring to form our present physical universe, but recognize that there must be a series of big bangs stretching into infinity both before this present universe and that others shall come after it once more collapses on itself; and recognize as well that the big bang to moved our phyiscal universe into its present form may be accompanied by other big bangs, or other processes, that result in other universes as well.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Caeca,

I haven't heard from the censors' cohors so I assume that must be a good thing.

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> C. Maria Caeca C. Octavio Prisco sal,
>
> And she is a very excellent teacher, too! She'd have to be ...any correct Latin I have, I learned from her ...and *that* is an accomplishment of which she could be more than justly proud, LOL!
>
> I'll admit, I made the same gender assumption until I saw our Roman name ...and then I was heartily glad that I hadn't yet sent my usual explanation/invitation to you, concerning the Matronae list, LOL!
>
> Vale bene,
> CMC, who thinks she mislead you, unintentionally, about the role the censors' cohors plays in choosing Roman names. Had thee been a problem you would have heard from them, otherwise, what you choose is perfectly acceptable!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Varo, et salvete omnes,

no no, just a slip of the fingers! To be honest ...I didn't even notice, as I was so interested in what you had to say, so ..come back here! (laughs). I would appreciate it, though, if you would post, at least once, your full Roman name (which I should probably remember, and do not), so that I might give you your due in respectful greetings, and not, as I find I must now, address you as though we had been long time friends.

Respectfully,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

> Ave!
>
> Lucky for us being Latin fluency is not the extent of Romanitas. ;)

However, it is an important part thereof. Anyone who can learn Hebrew
can surely learn Latin!

If we required true Latin fluency (being able to read, write, and speak
it), NR would consist of maybe half a dozen people. If we asked for nothing
more than the ability to read Latin, we might have 30 or so. We do have
several here who have made the effort to learn Latin, and they deserve our
praise for attempting that in adulthood when language learning is often more
difficult and there are more distractions around--such as work, spouse,
children, elderly parents...

>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla

Vale, et valete.

>
> On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:57 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica
> <fororom@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
>>> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>>
>>> A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Salve Metelle,
>>>
>>> Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
>>>
>>> ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting our
>>> attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I shall
>>> point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
>>>
>>> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>>>
>>> Vale, et valete!
>>>
>>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
>> Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
>>
>>> Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Salue Prisce,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight! LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>>>>>
>>>>> Vale,
>>>>>
>>>>> Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Salve Scholastica,

How does one sign up for the latin courses?

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 7:01:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interested in Joining Nova Roma.

 

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve Scholastica,
>
> That is good to know as my latin skills could surely use improving.
>
>
> ATS: As could those of many here. I teach several Latin courses, two
> traditional, based on the Wheelock text, and three assimilation-method, based
> on a European text, Le Latin Sans Peine, which is supposedly available in
> French-Latin and Italian-Latin, but the French version went out of print a few
> years ago and I have heard that the Italian one is being revised or whatever.
> However, there is something called emule which might help...
>
> The introductory Wheelock course will begin Monday, US Labor Day, but the
> text is not necessary the first week of class. If you can arm yourself with
> the text (Wheelock Sixth Edition) in time, you are welcome to join us. The
> Combined Assimil (called Sermo Latinus I & II) class will begin September
> 13th, and the two separate ones (Sermo I and Sermo II) will begin on the 20th.
> We require possession of the text before registering for our free courses, but
> in the case of Grammatica Latina (Wheelock) I, we can admit students up to
> about 10 days after the start of class.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Octavius Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis,
>>> peregrinisque
>>> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Metelle,
>>> > >
>>> > > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting

our

>>> > > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new, I >>>

shall

>>> > > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists here].
>>> > >
>>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete!
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salue Prisce,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone straight!

 LOL!

>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Vale,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve;
O my, there are varieties of myths of Attis just like Jesus, who takes myths literally? No intelligent person; myths points to deeper truths.

I have to tell you more recent scholarship and archeological finds of defixiones have shown Attis as judge, deus maximus,saviour and resurrected god in Germany and Spain as early as 50 C.E. just look at

"Romanising Oriental Gods: Myth, Salvation and Ethics in the Cults of Cybele, Isis and Mithras (Religions in the Graeco-Roman World)" Jaime Alvar, you'll find all the citations there.
http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-01-39.html

Galanakis' "Minoan Glyptic" instead
" The third study views baetyls as "media for summoning the divinity who was about to resurrect and bring back fertility to nature", (p. 92) linking them to
aniconic forms of Kybele, Kubela and Kubana in the Levant and Anatolia (p. 93);

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2007/2007-02-03.html

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all derive from syncretic polytheistic cults.
Yahweh is a conflation of a Canaanite storm god baal with the Ugaritic El,
Jesus is related to Attis and the various dying gods, the history of kingship of
the Near East, and possibly Serapis-Osiris; scholarly research is ongoing. Mary
has Isis' symbolism and clearly is modelled on Cybele. Allah had sister
goddesses and was worshipped in the Ka'aba along with Al Manat, Al 'Uzza and Al
Lat.

all 3 so-called exclusive monotheisms arose from the oldest strate of religion ;
polytheism. And scholarly research & archeology have amply demonstrated that.
When such persons then say such a belief in their various cultus' exclusivity
and non-syncretic origin is 'faith' they've left the world of rational discourse
and are no different than Darwin deniers.
optime vale
Maior


- first posited by Sir James Frazer

> in his "The Golden Bough" in AD 1906 - between the so-called "mystery religions"
> and Christianity are completely manufactured by his early 20th-century
> imagination.
>
> What we know of these mystery religions - specifically those of Attis and
> Mithras - are known almost entirely from Christian sources repudiating them; the
> actual scholars of these myths recognize that, contrary to the imagined and
> wishful thinking of those desperate to "prove" their validity in some sort of
> contrast to Christian sources, much of the contemplative and esoteric
> foundations of the mystery cults were derived *from* Christianity because of its
> growing popularity and great appeal to the masses of the people.
>
> There is a reason that the cult of Cybele and Attis was basically suppressed until the time of Claudius; its practices (self-mutilation, frenzies, etc.) were repugnant to the Romans and it was not until the time of Claudius that Roman citizens were allowed to be practitioners.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Piscine;
> > you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring, but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better myth, I think;-)
>

Scriptori te salutant;

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM, C Octavius scripsit:

>
> Salve Stephane,
>
> You were the only one I think.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Octavius Priscus
>

I think it comes from having taken French during my Grammar and Junior
High school years. I associate Jean with John more readily, even
though both my mother and mother-in-law have the given name of Jean...

Might also come from my partial French-Canadian ancestry, my father's
maternal grandmother was an Allard, whose parents were born a little
outside of Montreal.

Bene Vale - Venator

Salve;
ah the 'forgery'; this was common practice at the time to give more weight to a writing. You mean someone writing as Hadrian, just like someone writing to be Mark, Luke, John etc....in books called the Gospels;-)
vale
Maior

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Not this again. That letter is considered to be a late forgery just as I pointed out when it was brought up in debate last year.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Piscine;
> > you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring, but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better myth, I think;-)
> >
> > Regulus in his research has found that Dionysios is a form of Osiris and Jesus the latest scholarship pointing to Serapis-Osiris
> >
> > optime vale
> > Maior
> >
> > Historia Augusta 8
> > From Hadrian Augustus to Servianus22 the consul, greeting. The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. 2 There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. 3 There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. 4 Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, p401by others to worship Christ.
> >
> > >
> > > Cato Piscino sal.
> > >
> > > Among other things, this statement/question:
> > >
> > > "...eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed
> > > in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis?"
> > >
> > > betrays an incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of any of these three ancient mythologies. It is simply, and demonstrably, incorrect.
> > >
> > > I see that, naturally, you cannot comment simply on the ideas of the discussion, but must seemingly by necessity turn it into a caricaturization of Christianity. That's ... unfortunate.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
>
> Salve Scholastica,
>
> How does one sign up for the latin courses?
>
> ATS: I provide the information when the student confirms to me that he or
> she has the textbook. Wheelock is available in many college bookstores, and
> perhaps in other good bookstores. If you want to take the course, you must
> have the text by around September15 or so; otherwise you would be too late.
> The lessons for the first week do not depend on the text, but must be read and
> absorbed before taking the text on. Assimil is much harder to obtain, and
> far more expensive.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Octavius Priscus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> >
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 7:01:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interested in Joining Nova Roma.
>
>  
>> >
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
>> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>> >
>> > Salve Scholastica,
>> >
>> > That is good to know as my latin skills could surely use improving.
>> >
>> >
>> > ATS: As could those of many here. I teach several Latin courses, two
>> > traditional, based on the Wheelock text, and three assimilation-method,
>> based
>> > on a European text, Le Latin Sans Peine, which is supposedly available in
>> > French-Latin and Italian-Latin, but the French version went out of print a
>> few
>> > years ago and I have heard that the Italian one is being revised or
>> whatever.
>> > However, there is something called emule which might help...
>> >
>> > The introductory Wheelock course will begin Monday, US Labor Day, but the
>> > text is not necessary the first week of class. If you can arm yourself with
>> > the text (Wheelock Sixth Edition) in time, you are welcome to join us. The
>> > Combined Assimil (called Sermo Latinus I & II) class will begin September
>> > 13th, and the two separate ones (Sermo I and Sermo II) will begin on the
>> 20th.
>> > We require possession of the text before registering for our free courses,
>> but
>> > in the case of Grammatica Latina (Wheelock) I, we can admit students up to
>> > about 10 days after the start of class.
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > C. Octavius Priscus
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
>> > Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis,
>>>> >>> peregrinisque
>>>>>> >>> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > Salve Metelle,
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting
> our
>>>>>> >>> > > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new,

I >>>

> shall
>>>>>> >>> > > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists

here].

>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > Vale, et valete!
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> >>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>>>>> >>> > > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Salue Prisce,
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone

straight!

>  LOL!
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Vale,
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave

Or the Tripitaka (Buddhism) or the Mahayana Sutras?

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 5:30 PM, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve;
> ah the 'forgery'; this was common practice at the time to give more weight
> to a writing. You mean someone writing as Hadrian, just like someone writing
> to be Mark, Luke, John etc....in books called the Gospels;-)
> vale
> Maior
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Not this again. That letter is considered to be a late forgery just as I
> pointed out when it was brought up in debate last year.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gualterus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "rory12001" <rory12001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Piscine;
> > > you left out Attis, our favorite dying and reborn god of the spring,
> but he doesn't get eaten, he has sacred sex with the goddess. A much better
> myth, I think;-)
> > >
> > > Regulus in his research has found that Dionysios is a form of Osiris
> and Jesus the latest scholarship pointing to Serapis-Osiris
> > >
> > > optime vale
> > > Maior
> > >
> > > Historia Augusta 8
> > > From Hadrian Augustus to Servianus22 the consul, greeting. The land of
> Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear
> Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about
> by every breath of rumour. 2 There those who worship Serapis are, in fact,
> Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact,
> devotees of Serapis. 3 There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no
> Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer,
> or an anointer. 4 Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is
> forced by some to worship Serapis, p401by others to worship Christ.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Cato Piscino sal.
> > > >
> > > > Among other things, this statement/question:
> > > >
> > > > "...eating a god to become a god, like the ceremonies performed
> > > > in the mystery religions such as where bread and wine represented the
> body and blood of Mithra, or Osiris, or Adonis?"
> > > >
> > > > betrays an incredible lack of knowledge and understanding of any of
> these three ancient mythologies. It is simply, and demonstrably, incorrect.
> > > >
> > > > I see that, naturally, you cannot comment simply on the ideas of the
> discussion, but must seemingly by necessity turn it into a caricaturization
> of Christianity. That's ... unfortunate.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scholastica,

The text is carried at Borders, I've seen it there. I could easily pick it up this week.

How do I get started for the lessons beginning on Labor day?

Vale,

C. Octavius Priscus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Scholastica,
> >
> > How does one sign up for the latin courses?
> >
> > ATS: I provide the information when the student confirms to me that he or
> > she has the textbook. Wheelock is available in many college bookstores, and
> > perhaps in other good bookstores. If you want to take the course, you must
> > have the text by around September15 or so; otherwise you would be too late.
> > The lessons for the first week do not depend on the text, but must be read and
> > absorbed before taking the text on. Assimil is much harder to obtain, and
> > far more expensive.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > C. Octavius Priscus
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> > <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 7:01:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Interested in Joining Nova Roma.
> >
> >  
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> >> > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Salve Scholastica,
> >> >
> >> > That is good to know as my latin skills could surely use improving.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ATS: As could those of many here. I teach several Latin courses, two
> >> > traditional, based on the Wheelock text, and three assimilation-method,
> >> based
> >> > on a European text, Le Latin Sans Peine, which is supposedly available in
> >> > French-Latin and Italian-Latin, but the French version went out of print a
> >> few
> >> > years ago and I have heard that the Italian one is being revised or
> >> whatever.
> >> > However, there is something called emule which might help...
> >> >
> >> > The introductory Wheelock course will begin Monday, US Labor Day, but the
> >> > text is not necessary the first week of class. If you can arm yourself with
> >> > the text (Wheelock Sixth Edition) in time, you are welcome to join us. The
> >> > Combined Assimil (called Sermo Latinus I & II) class will begin September
> >> > 13th, and the two separate ones (Sermo I and Sermo II) will begin on the
> >> 20th.
> >> > We require possession of the text before registering for our free courses,
> >> but
> >> > in the case of Grammatica Latina (Wheelock) I, we can admit students up to
> >> > about 10 days after the start of class.
> >> >
> >> > Vale,
> >> >
> >> > C. Octavius Priscus
> >> >
> >> > Vale, et valete.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> >> > Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@> wrote:
> >>>> >> >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Octavio Prisco quiritibus, sociis,
> >>>> >>> peregrinisque
> >>>>>> >>> > > bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > A warm welcome to the Res Publica!
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > Salve Metelle,
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > Sorry, resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > ATS: LOL! We do try to assimilate them, but they keep resisting
> > our
> >>>>>> >>> > > attempts to Romanize (especially Latinize) them! [As you are new,
> I >>>
> > shall
> >>>>>> >>> > > point out that I teach Latin, and am among the chief Latinists
> here].
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > Vale, et valete!
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>>>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> >>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> >>>>>> >>> > > Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Salue Prisce,
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Maybe I need to create a matrix to keep everyone
> straight!
> >  LOL!
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Oh no! Not The Matrix! Anything but The Matrix!
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Vale,
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> > Quintus Caecilius Metellus
> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>>>> >>> > >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>