Salve Prisce,

I think it especially that Senator Cato has expressed these sentiments because he, himself is Greek Orthodox ...thus demonstrating, as an object lesson to all Novi Romani, the tolerance present in Roma Antiqua and here, as well, and I , for one, (a Cultor Deorum), thank him for doing so.

Vale et valete bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeca,

Well said.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Yom Kippur


Salve Prisce,

I think it especially that Senator Cato has expressed these sentiments because
he, himself is Greek Orthodox ...thus demonstrating, as an object lesson to all
Novi Romani, the tolerance present in Roma Antiqua and here, as well, and I ,
for one, (a Cultor Deorum), thank him for doing so.

Vale et valete bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeca,

Well said fellow civis, if I may call you that, being so new myself; this is the
mantra we need to adopt most fervently! There seems to be so much pessimism as
of late, if I have read the archives correctly, and this must be overcome!

May ALL those whose wish a brighter future for Nova Roma rise up NOW and commit
themselves to working towards THAT end!

I may be new here, but I can sense the desire of those many souls here, who wish
that this great experiment succeed.


Trust me, MY FRIENDS, IT WILL, have no doubt, be strong, we will prevail!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:34:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo


Salve prisce, et salvete omnes,

If you can keep that attitude, and I see no reason why you cannot, you will
build a realistic, balanced picture of what, and who, we are ...and, more to the
point, you will be able to take your place here, as an active, contributing
cives, and help to make a difference, for good. We are often contentious always
highly opinionated, and occasionally most uncivil ...but we are also passionate,
fiercely dedicated, and we tend to form close and enduring friendships. As
frustrating as NR can be (and oh, it *can* be), it is a good place to be, and is
also a place which will challenge, delight and fascinate those who are willing
to invest their time, energy, and effort. Be warned though (smile) this place
gets into your genes or something ...and even many who leave either end up
coming back, or find that they can't quite cut all ties. I know ...I tried
...and wandered back, at which point, I realized that since I couldn't leave
...I'd stay and contribute what little I can to what has become my Res Publica.

vale et valete bene,
C. Maria Caeca (who almost got herself into trouble with the Praetora by
omitting the closing, oops!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ludi Romani 2010: FIRST and SECOND (LAST) SEMIFINAL
EX OFFICIO AEDILIS P. ANNAEI L. IVLIAE

L. Iulia Aquila omnibus civibus S.P.D.

Welcome to the SEMIFINALS!!!!!

This day of the Ludi, 12Sept2010 is dedicated to APOLLO.

Welcome Quirites, Socii, Peregrinisque to the Ludi Romani 2010! A spectacular Pompa was witnessed this day, citizens and guests alike seeking healing for themselves and loved ones. They brought and also purchased amulets and talismans and left messages and offerings at shrines along the way! Today is a day of promise with clear blue skies overhead; the crowds are hopeful and excited, the entertainment even more colorful.
Now the ritual to Apollo commences.
The call for silentum is issued.

*********************************************************************************************************
Sacrum Apolloni Medico
SALUTATIO
"Hail Apollo Medicus and hail You immortal Gods ! Come, come (Gods), take in this ceremony, and protect it!

PRAECATIO
Apollo, we ask and beseech You, we beg and pray to You so that You may confirm, strengthen and help the Republic of the People of Nova Roman, the Quirites, so that You save the Republic of the People of Nova Roman, the Quirites, from all discord, illness, dissension and wrongdoing; so that the Republic of the People of Nova Roman, Quirites, may always flourish and prosper; so that You may keep away all illnesses visible and invisible; and that You allow all events to be good and salutary to the Nova Roman People of Quirites, to the Republic of the People of Nova Roman, the Quirites; and that you put an end to the controversy that is ongoing between the Nova Roman citizens.

SACRIFICATIO
Apollo, by offering you this incense I pray good prayers so that You may be benevolent and propitious to the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, to the Republic of the Nova Roman People, the Quirites, to the Collegium Pontificum and to the Collegium Augurum, to our Vestals and sacerdotes, to us, to our households, our homes and to our families.
Apollo, when offering incense to You I have prayed good prayers, for the very same reason may You be blessed and strengthened by this small portion of wine.

LITATIO
For these reasons, Blessed One, by offering this wine, by offering this incense, by offering this libum be benevolent and propitious to the People of Nova Roma, the Quirites, to the Republic of the People of Nova Roman, the Quirites, to the Collegium Pontificum and to the Collegium Augurum, to our Vestals and sacerdotes, to us, to our households, our homes and to our families.

PERLITATIO
"No more, Gods on High, do I ask of You today; it is enough."
"Thus it is done. May all the Gods above and below always love you and wish you happiness in all that is good."
"May the immortal Gods make it so, as fortunate as it is pious."

*********************************************************************************************************

IVLIA: Good Morning once again and welcome to the first semi-final of the Ludi Romani 2010! It is a crisp cool morning, spirits are high, the stands are packed! I am Julia Aquila, your commentator this morning and with me in the broadcasting box is V. Herminius Aquilinus who has been making quite a hit at the various parties since his return to Rome and who will be once again reporting the race for us today. The crowd is rushing about procuring last minute food and drink before the first semifinal race begins.
The agitatores for this most important race are finishing with their preparations and attending to last minute task: they are rechecking their harnesses, chariots, wheels and horses.
The chariots are absolutely gleaming and pristine, the agitatores impressive in their colors, the quadrigae lively and frisky!
The troika are making their way around the track in this lively procession, wreaths adorn the steeds and the agitatores are truly stars this morning, waving and smiling!
Competing in the first Race in post position is the Drunas driven by Nervia for the Albatae owned by Consul Albucius, second is the sky blue Tempestas Noctis driven by the tall crimson haired Nicodemus the Thracian for the Venetae owned by St. Cornelia Æternia, in third is the Consul's other chariot, Luxogenes driven by Eporicus, my personal favorite, for the Albatae and finally the Fulminata driven by the handsome Gaul Lucius Furius for the Venetae owned by A. Vitellius Celsus.

Many Thanks go to the Herminii for the wonderful and well tended buffet in the commentators' box and also for providing the feasts and endless refreshments for today's special quarterfinal!

*moves to the edge of the skybox and watches as Placidus prepares to start the race, the noise raises in a deafening wave from the spectators and Iulia repeats a familiar phrase*

They have arrived back at the ostia are in position in the carceres.

The trumpets sound the signal, Aedilis Placidus drops the mappa to the ground; the ostia are sprung!

Missi sunt currus!

They're off!

VITVS: Yes they are off and they are moving down the track at an even pace, in a cloud of red sand as they make the first turn; Luxogenes in the lead with the Tempestas Noctis on his heels, the Fulminata and the Drunas do not appear in any hurry. As the dolphin turns into the second lap it is White, Blue, White, Blue and crowd is cheering their favorites on. The quadrigae thunder through the second lap and maintain position into the third lap with Luxogenes getting too close to the spina for comfort.
Look at that! *crowds rise in their seats!* Drunas is pulling ahead and nearly makes the Tempestas Noctis lose control! Drunas is in first and we nearly lose track of the Fulminata as it had followed quickly but nearly hidden by the Drunas' dust!
As the Dolphin is turned into the fourth lap the order has changed omnes! It's the Drunas in first, then the Fulminata a close second, a nose behind, followed by Tempestas Noctis and at their heels is the Luxogenes!
Consul Albucius has left his skybox and has been escorted to the center of the track! A dangerous maneuver, but who can blame him!
The Tempestas Noctis goes wide on the outside, the steeds in a full lather as Nicodemus pushes them into first place! Hope the hot-walkers are ready for that team!
Pounding down the last stretch Luxogenes *Julia jumps up and down trying to suppress an excited screech* and he just might surpass the Tempestas Noctis in a final upset!
But No!
It is Tempestas Noctis by a hair in first place, followed by the Consul's Luxogenes in second, the Drunas is third and the Fulminata is last.

THE TEMPESTAS NOCTIS FOR THE VENETAE AND THE LUXOGENES FOR THE ALBATAE GO TO THE FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JVLIA: Oh the excitement is in the air as we break for the intermessio, the mimes and musicians are piling onto the field, the acrobats on horse back and the jugglers, actors and orators are claiming their space and audience as thousands upon thousands of people stream down from the stands to partake of the free feast!
In addition to the generosity of the Herminii, The Consuls will be providing all the wine one can drink during the intermessio!

*Maria Caeca escorted by Hermannus (whose wife is in the infirmary), Balbus Gallus Hilarius, Cardia Clodia Concha escorted by Consul Albucius, Faustus Fannius Felix and Poppaea Solin Felicita, dear friend of Julia and Maria and a well known noble patron of the arts and Roman socialite, escorted by Consul Quintilianus accompanied by four Praetorians arrive in the spacious skybox to wait out the intermessio and to enjoy a special feast*

VITVS: *ambles over to Julia, towering above her and bends to her ear, his heated breath washing over her the sensitive ivory flesh sending chills down her spine then he speaks just loud enough for all to hear* Note the Praetorians, mea voluptas unica, to keep our Consuls from each other's throats.

*before anyone can comment, the crowd begins to laugh, howl and hoot and they all look to the center of the big screen at a familiar sightÂ… The Consuls rush down to the scene, the Praetorians swiftly in pursuit, speaking into their blue-tooths barking orders for other guards to meet them below*


*********************************************************************************************************


INTERMISSIO brought to us by Maria Caeca in its entirety:

Scene II

*Scene: in the background you can the crowds roaring .and some occasional words. "Greeks" Parthians" "Carthaginians!" several citizens come on stage, yelling.*

1st citizen: "they want to kill the Greeks!"

2nd citizen: "No, the Parthans!"

3rd citizen: "Idiots, the Carthaginians"

4th: "We're Greeks!"

5th citizen: "Who are we, anyway?"


All: "Idiot!" *they begin to brawl.*

*Fantasia comes back, tunica torn, barely covering her decently, hair unbound and whipping in the breeze*

Fantasia: I *must* find the Magician! I need to ask him something!

Ragus awakens slowly: "what what .what did the Great Ones do to me?" Ah! I've been transported! This is Tartarus! We're all in Tartarus, and we're all
dead!"

All: No! We're all Greek! We'll Parthian! We're Carthaginian!

Fantasia: I don't *like* Parthians!"


*Enter Senators:*

Sen. 1. Are we in compliance?

Sen. 2.: With what?

Sen. 1: with anything? Anywhere?

All: Uh, dunno!

Sen. 2: Where, in NR law, does it say that Greeks, Parthians or Carthaginians are bad and must be destroyed? Please be specific.

Sen. 3: I don't know, but we beat the stuffings out of Carthage, so maybe we think *they* are.

Sen. . Nope, we just think *they* are gone.

*Crowd gets larger, brawl gets louder and more exuberant.*

*The 2 Consuls are seen standing on the steps of a temple, arguing.*

Consul 2. "this is *your* fault! I *told* you not to provide free wine, now look at this mess!

Consul 1: No! this is *your* fault! You didn't stop these rumors when you could have!

*Ragus crawls up the steps:* Oh, mighty consuls! You must make sacrifices to the gods to prevent our terrible fate! I'll start them for you.
*spills some wine on pavement, and splashes consul 1's toga*.
Oops, I didn't mean to give the gods *that* much!
*lifts wine skin, takes long drink, chokes.*

Consul 1: Ce qui est celui?

Fantasia: Oh, dear gods! The Gauls have invaded us .and we are being ruled by a Gaul! Woe is us!
*to Ragus* give me that!
*Grabs for wine skin, he pulls it away from her, trips, and sits down, abruptly*.

*Sound of police whistles. Enter members of the Praetora, with lictors.*

Praetorian Quaestor: "Lictors! Lictors! Get this mess cleaned up! I won't have this kind of behavior in the City!

Scriba 1: Ello, ello! What's this, then? What's this?

Scriba 2: *a dignified Matrona: grabs Fantasia by the hair and hauls her to her feet*
Shame on you! You're an absolute mess!
*the Scriba retrieves pins from hidden places in her tunica, and begins to pin Fantasia's tunica together* I must make you at least *appear* decent!

Fantasia: Ouch! You're sticking me with pins!

Crowd: A witch! A witch! She's using pins!

*Female scriba, muttering imprecations under her breath:* "Oh, be *QUIET* all of you! You are a disgrace to the name of Roman citizen!"

*A young priest strides into the square, takes one look at the malay, and says in a carrying voice:* Citizens! Stop this fighting! These are the
sacred games, where we honor the gods, and you are not behaving like the brothers and sisters you truly are!

Voice from crowd: Make us, priest.

*Young priest sighs.* As you wish.
*enters malay, starts grabbing combatants by the scruff of their necks, and tosses them away from one another, creating a path through the mob as he goes.* You *will* learn to get along! You *will* learn to love one another! You *will* learn to honor the goddess Concordia!

*Behind him, the mob comes back together, and continues fighting. The priest comes face to face with Ragus, and stops.* Uh .who are .you?????

Ragus: The mighty magician and philosopher Ragus, at your service. Want some of this wine?

Priest: No, thank you. My friend, you should go, now, to the baths, I think. You'll feel so much better. I'll help you.

Ragus: I just need more wine. Help me by getting me more wine, and I'll intercede with the Great ones so they won't kill you.

Priest: Kill me? Who wants to kill me? Looks around, confused. Oh, dear, am I in trouble again?

*A Peregrinus stands in the entrance of an alley, watching avidly, whispering* "Burn, baby burn! Anybody got a match?

*From over head, the public address system first squeals, then hisses, and finally, the mellifluous voice of the Curule Aedile is heard saying:*

Ladies and Gentlemen, please take your seats, the races will recommence in 10 minutes.

All: Race time! All exit, cheering, except Ragus.

Ragus: I tried to tell them, and I *really* need some more wine! Where's that nice girl? I'll ask her to get me some!



*********************************************************************************************************

POPPAEA SOLIN FELICITA: Good afternoon and welcome back to the final semifinal! It is a beautiful early fall afternoon, a slight warm breeze to take off the chill – but there are no fall colors – blue and white are the colors today! *her laughter is akin to tiny sweet bells* This is Poppaea Solin Felicita and I will be assisting V. Herminius Aquilinus, in any way he needs me to! Domina Julia and Domina Maria will be sitting this one out, as both have entries this race. And there they are! With that handsome tribune Petronius Dexter! He has curls to die for! Be still my heart!

*Vitus laughs gregariously and shakes his head*

*winks at Vitus, then purrs to the crowd* Did you hear that Vitus laugh? If I were him I would consider Petronius competition! *turns to Vitus* Don't think the gossip about you and my dear friend Domina Julia seals the deal – I've know her for a long time…

VITVS: *laughing* I am not too worried; I think I can stand up to the competition – in that arena anyway!

SOLIN FELICITA: *with a wicked biting husky trill, twirls a lot of her strawberry blonde hair* Aw, so you're saying that you're the Domina's horse even if you don't ever win a raceÂ…

VITVS: *his stormy blue eyes flash* There is always next year, this was just practice – I am honored to have such a fine woman even take the slightest interest in me. She's quite discerning and I hear she only shows interest in champions.

SOLIN FELICITA: *purzzzzzzzz, flirting, looks him up and down* Oh yes, she has always chosen well.

VITVS:*taking the high road, flashes her a grin* In friends as well. *looks on the field and Julia is waves at him, smiling*

SOLIN FELICITA: Why thank you Vitus, *than aside, away from the mikeÂ… and sarcastically* maybe when she is done with you we can explore some other options, if there is anything left of youÂ…

VITVS: *leans forward seductively, curls his lips into a smile, a lock of his blonde streaked hair falls lazily forwards, and whispers away from the mike* When the sunrises in Hades I may consider it.

SOLIN FELICITA: *turns away and rolls her eyes, into the mike*
The troika are making their way around the track, one for the last time this Ludi – beautiful wreaths adorn the steeds, the agitatores are dignified and animated; waving and smiling! This last semi-final is a highly competitive race; in post position is the Ventrus Albus driven by Hermannus of the Albatae owned by Domina Maria Caeca, second is the Vita Brevis driven by the lovely but tough as nails Aiofe of the Silures for the Albatae owned by Senator Marinus *flashes a teasing grin to Vitus*, but on loan to Domina Julia Aquila, in third is Incitatus driven by Stolo for the Venetae and owned by C. Petronius Dexter.
Well omnes they have arrived back at the ostia are in position in the carceres and it appears as though Aedile Julia Aquila is getting ready to start this semifinal race!

The trumpets sound the signal, Aedilis Julia Aquila drops the mappa to the ground!

The ostia are sprung!

Missi sunt currus!

They're off!

VITUS: It's Vita Brevis out in front, its quadrigae are rested and their stride is easy and effortless! Hermannus in the Ventrus Albus is staying close to the spina and taking his time, and Stolo in Incitatus is in no hurry either. This almost seems like a training lap compared to earlier races in this Ludi and Incitatus pulls alongside the Vita Brevis on the outside but is making no aggressive actions. As the second dolphin turns the horse are pounding the sand down the first stretch and Incitatus takes the lead and crosses in front of Hermannus close to the spina coming way to close to the Ventrus Alba's quadrigae making the team shy a bit. Hermannus is not taking it! As they head into the last turn of the second lap he moves to the right squeezing the Vita Brevis further to the outside and thunders around Incitatus nearly making him crash into the spina, Vita Brevis takes advantage of the distraction and takes the lead position as the third dolphin turns and heads down the first stretch of the third lap taking a clear lead on the inside. Stolo and Hermannus are tussling over position! Their wheels have met! *screeching, shouting and cussing ensues from the two male drivers* Incitatus and Ventrus Albus are neck in neck and are veering into each other as they head into the first turn of the final lap! Vita Brevis is already half way down the first stretch of the final lap and Aiofe is not looking back, she is focused and running her race with precise skill and confidence! Hermannus shouts a command to his steeds and the big animals pull away from Incitatus! He is racing towards the final turn but the Vita Brevis has already negotiated it and is on the final stretch! Hermannus is a man on a mission and is pulling alongside the Vita Brevis; they are neck in neck as they head for a blanket finish – a photo finish! *shouts, whistles, confetti, boos fill the circus*
It is Ventrus Albus driven by Hermannus of the Albatae owned by Domina Maria Caeca in first place by a hair! Vita Brevis driven Aiofe of the Silures for the Albatae owned by Senator Marinus, on loan to Domina Julia Aquila is a close second and Ludi Novi Romani champion Incitatus driven by Stolo for the Venetae and owned by C. Petronius Dexter is in last place and disqualified for the finals!
GOING TO THE FINALS IS VENTRUS ALBUS DRIVEN BY HERMANNUS OF THE ALBATAE IN FIRST PLACE AND VITA BREVIS DRIVEN BY AIOFE OF THE SILURES ALSO FOR THE ALBATAE IN SECOND PLACE!
CONGRATULATIONS! SEE YOU IN THE FINALS!!!!!!!!!!

SOLIN FELICITA: We will see you all tomorrow night for the final race!
*turns the mike off and turns to Vitus, and teases seductively* Just got an invite for the both of us to a party at Consul Albucius, of course it looks like Julia will be so in demand tonight she wouldn't even know you were gone – how about you and I go party hopping…

Vitus leans back in his chair and smiles at her, a twinkle in his eye, knowing she "belongs" to Consul Quintilianus, at least for this night but then relaxes to a tender touch behind his shoulder. He knows that touch so well, the warm lips that kiss the side of his neck and the gentle caress as Julia gently presses her body into his back and weaves her arms loosely on his chest, he raises his hands to take hers and holds Felicita's gaze and mouths `no contest'*

JVLIA: Po, behave, as the song goes "you can't always get what you want."

*They all laugh and head off towards the parties*

Narratio resumeturÂ…
To be continuedÂ…

Salvete Amici et Amicae!

Ah, Hermannus! My lovely, lovely, fierce German! OK ...Party at Caeca's tomorrow night! Win or lose, he got to the finals ...so it's time to celebrate, yeah! And, I assure you ...there will *be* celebrations! Party report (that which is fit to print, anyway) after the game broadcast tomorrow night, (grin).

Now ...must get to my to do list!

Valete quam optime,
a *very* happy C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Iuliae Aquilae electissimae praeconi s.p.d.,

> IVLIA: (...)Competing in the first Race in post position is the Drunas driven by Nervia for the Albatae owned by Consul Albucius, second is the sky blue Tempestas Noctis driven by the tall crimson haired Nicodemus the Thracian for the Venetae owned by St. Cornelia Æternia..."

C. Petronius sitting at the top terrace of the Circus Maximus among the Plebs: GO BLUES! BLUES UP! VENETI VINCENT! IN HOC COLORE VINCES!

> in third is the Consul's other chariot, Luxogenes driven by Eporicus, my personal favorite, for the Albatae and finally the Fulminata driven by the handsome Gaul Lucius Furius for the Venetae owned by A. Vitellius Celsus.

CPD: What? two charriots for the Whites and both owned by the consul Albucius! His opponents are from the Blues! GO BLUES! BLUES UP! VENETI VINCENT! IN HOC COLORE VINCES!

> Julia: Missi sunt currus!

CPD quite supporter: PORRO VENETI! VENETI! VENETI! VENETI VINCENT! IN HOC COLORE VINCENT!

> VITVS: (...)It is Tempestas Noctis by a hair in first place, followed by the Consul's Luxogenes in second, the Drunas is third and the Fulminata is last.

> THE TEMPESTAS NOCTIS FOR THE VENETAE AND THE LUXOGENES FOR THE ALBATAE GO TO THE FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CPD: Hip hip huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurraaaaaa... VENETI VICERVNT! VIVAT TEMPESTAS NOCTIS! BLUES UP! BLUES! BLUES! BLUES ARE THE BEST!

> JVLIA: Oh the excitement is in the air as we break for the intermessio, the mimes and musicians are piling onto the field, the acrobats on horse back and the jugglers, actors and orators are claiming their space and audience as thousands upon thousands of people stream down from the stands to partake of the free feast!
> In addition to the generosity of the Herminii, The Consuls will be providing all the wine one can drink during the intermessio!

CPD: Pueri, mihi vinum adferte et Falernum!

> INTERMISSIO brought to us by Maria Caeca in its entirety:

> Scene II

In its entirety? Why it begins at the Scene 2?

> Consul 1: Ce qui est celui?

CPD: He lost his French... :o)

> POPPAEA SOLIN FELICITA: (...) With that handsome tribune Petronius Dexter! He has curls to die for! Be still my heart!

CPD: By Jove! I have curls to die for?

> SOLIN FELICITA: (...) in third is Incitatus driven by Stolo for the Venetae and owned by C. Petronius Dexter.

CPD: GO BLUES! BLUES UP! VIVAT STOLO OPTIMVS AVRIGARVM! VINCAT INCITATVS CELERRIMUS QUADRIGARVM! CVRRITE QUATTUOR EQUI! PORRO PEGASE! PORRO ANTARES! PORRO ORION! PORRO SIRIE!

> Missi sunt currus!
> VITUS: (...) Ludi Novi Romani champion Incitatus driven by Stolo for the Venetae and owned by C. Petronius Dexter is in last place and disqualified for the finals!

CPD: This time the ground was too heavy. I suspect that my horses have eaten junk straw. But, of course, my favorite butcher will flog Stolo until the blood runs. And I wonder if I will not make steaks tartare from my 4 horses...

Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XIV Kalendas Octobres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIV Kalendas Octobris; haec dies
comitialis est.

"Pridie quam pererit quum oblatos tuberes servari jussisset in
crastinum: adjecit, si modo uti licuerit. et conversus ad proximos,
adfirmavit fore, ut sequenti die, Luna se in Aquario cruentaret:
factumque aliquod exsisteret, de quo loquerentur homines per terrarum
orbem. ad mediam noctem ita est exterritus, ut ex strato prosiliret.
dehinc mane haruspicem ex Germania missum, qui consultus de fulgure
mutationem rerum prædixerat, audiit condemnavitque. ac dum exulceratum
in fronte verrucam vehementius scalpit, profluente sanguine, utinam,
inquit, hactenus. tunc horas requirenti, pro quinta, quam metuebat,
sexta ex industria nuntiata est. his velut transacto jam periculo
lætum, festinantemque ad corporis curam, Parthenius cubiculo
præpositus convertit: nuntians esse, qui magnum nescio quid adserret,
nec differendum. itaque summotis omnibus, in cubiculum se recepit,
atque ibi occisus est."

"Astrological predictions had long since warned him in what year and
day he would die; they even specified the hour and manner ... On the
day before Domition's assassination somebody brought him a present of
apples. 'Serve them tomorrow,' he told the servants, adding '-if only
I am spared to eat them.' Then turning to his companions he remarked:
'There will be blood on the moon as she enters Aquarius, and a deed
will be done for everyone to talk about throughout the entire world.'
With the approach of midnight Domitian became so terrified that he
jumped out of bed; and at dawn condemned to death a soothsayer from
Germany who was charged with having said that the lightning portended
a change of government. Domitian then scratched a festering wart on
his forehead and made it bleed, muttering: 'I hope this is all the
blood required.' Presently he asked for the time. As had been
prearranged, his freedmen answered untruthfully: 'The sixth hour,'
because they knew it was the fifth he feared. Convinced that the
danger had passed, Domitian went off quickly and happily to take a
bath; whereupon his head valet, Parthenius, changed his intention by
delivering the news that a man had called on very urgent and important
business, and would not be put off. So Domitian dismissed his
attendants and hurried to his bedroom - where he was killed." -
Suetonius, "The Twelve Caesars", Life of Domitian ch. 16 (trans. Robt.
Graves)

"Domitian asked Ascletario about the astrologer's own death, to which
Ascletario replied that he would die soon and that he would be torn
apart by dogs. Domitian's plan was to alter Ascletario's prediction
which, according to Suetonius' interpretation, would be reassuring
proof that astrology was false. Thus, Domitian had the astrologer
immediately executed and the body quickly cremated. However, during
the funerary process a sudden storm extinguished the funeral pyre and
Ascletario's body was set upon by roving dogs. This macabre incident
was witnessed by the comic actor, Latinus, on his way to dinner with
Domitian. Presumably, Domitian did not enjoy dinner that day." -
Michael R. Molnar (professor of Astronomy, Rutgers University), "Blood
on The Moon in Aquarius" (1994)

On this day in AD 96, the emperor Titus Flavius Domitianus was
assassinated. On the night before the appointed day, Domitian dreamed
that the goddess Minerva told him she could no longer protect him. At
midnight, he leaped out of bed, terrified and shortly after condemned
to death a German soothsayer who had said that recent lightning
portended a change of government. The astrologer Ascletario
(Asclation) was summarily executed and his body quickly cremated. The
fearful emperor sat in his bed-chamber with his sword beneath his bed,
and soon asked his servants what the time was. "The fifth hour," they
answered. Domitian, convinced that his hour of danger had passed,
quickly and happily prepared to take a bath; whereupon his head valet,
Parthenius, changed the emperor's intention by delivering the news
that a man had called on very urgent and important business. Feeling
confident, Domitian greeted and led into his bedchamber Stephanus, who
stabbed him to death. The conspirators had arranged with the emperor's
servants to tell their lord the wrong time.

Domitian was succeeded by Nerva (by appointment of the Senate). The
custom of damnatio memoriae was issued on Domitian, ordering his
obliteration from all public records. Domitian is the only known
emperor to have officially received a damnatio memoriae, though others
may have received de facto ones. Many of the images that survive of
Domitian's successor, Nerva, were actually once Domitian but converted
to Nerva after the damnatio was issued. Nearly all surviving images of
Domitian were found in the provinces.

Valete bene!

Cato

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Di vos servavissent semper.

Hodie est ante diem XIV Kalendas Octobres; haec dies comitialis est: Ludi Romani in circo; Spica Virginis exoritur, Favonius aut Corus.

"The rise of Spica in Virgo, when the Etesian winds cease."


AUC 513 / 240 BCE: Andronicus Livius introduces Greek Theater to Rome

"Livius for the first time abandoned the loose satyrical verses and ventured to compose a play with a coherent plot. Like all his contemporaries, he acted in his own plays, and it is said that when he had worn out his voice by repeated recalls he begged leave to place a second player in front of the flutist to sing the monologue while he did the acting, with all the more energy because his voice no longer embarrassed him." ~ Titus Livius 7.2

The occasion was the Ludi Romani following the victoriuos conclusion of the First Punic War. He produced a Latin translation of a Greek play. Which of his plays was this first is not known, but titles of his plays include Achilles, Aegisthus, Equus Trojanus, Hermione, Odisia, and Tereus. A fragment of Equus Troianus has him say, "Grant me the strength, Goddess, to whom I ask, to whom I pray; extend your assistance to me."


The Flamen Dialis and Knots:

He has no knot in his head-dress, girdle, or any other part of his dress. ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae 10.15.9


Birthing Magic

"It is said, that if a person takes a stone or other missile which has slain three living creatures, a man, a boar, and a bear, at three blows, and throws it over the roof of a house in which there is a pregnant woman, her delivery, however difficult, will be instantly accelerated thereby. In such a case, too, a successful result will be rendered all the more probable, if a light infantry lance is used, which has been drawn from a man's body without touching the earth; indeed, if it is brought into the house it will be productive of a similar result." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 28.6


AUC 806 / 53 CE: Birth of Trajan

Born Marcus Ulpia Traianus in Italica, Hispania Baetica, Trajan first gained fame as a military commander of the legions on the Roman frontier opposite Germany. During the reign of Domitian a revolt by Antonius Saturninus was put out by Trajan (89 CE). Upon Domitian's death the Senate made Nerva emperor, but within a year the army revolted and the Praetorians forced Nerva, who was childless, to adopt Trajan. Nerva soon after died, raising Trajan to the throne. He was the first Roman emperor who was not native to Italy. As Caesar Marcus Ulpius Nerva Traianus Augustus he extended the Empire to its greatest limits, conquering Dacia in 106 CE and the Nabataean Kingdom in 107 CE. He then began a massive building program, building the massive Forum that bore his name, outstripping the one built by Augustus. At the age of 60 he undertook his last campaign against the Partians, capturing Susa (116 CE) and extending the Empire as far as the Persian Gulf. He became ill while on that last campaign, and while returning to Rome he died of a stroke in late 117 CE.


AUC 849 / 96 CE: Death of Domitian and ascension of Nerva

"Concerning the nature of the plot and the manner of his death, this is about all that became known. As the conspirators were deliberating when and how to attack him, whether at the bath or at dinner, Stephanus, Domitilla's steward, at the time under accusation for embezzlement, offered his aid and counsel. To avoid suspicion, he wrapped up his left arm in woollen bandages for some days, pretending that he had injured it, and concealed in them a dagger. Then pretending to betray a conspiracy and for that reason being given an audience, he stabbed the emperor in the groin as he was reading a paper which the assassin handed him, and stood in a state of amazement. As the wounded prince attempted to resist, he was slain with seven wounds by Clodianus, a subaltern, Maximus, a freedman of Parthenius, Satur, decurion of the chamberlains, and a gladiator from the imperial school. A boy who was engaged in his usual duty of attending to the Lares in the bedroom, and so was a witness of the murder, gave this additional information. He was bidden by Domitian, immediately after he was dealt the first blow, to hand him the dagger hidden under his pillow and to call the servants; but he found nothing at the head of the bed save the hilt, and besides all the doors were closed. Meanwhile the emperor grappled with Stephanus and bore him to the ground, where they struggled for a long time, Domitian trying now to wrest the dagger from his assailant's hands and now to gouge out his eyes with his lacerated fingers.

"He was slain on the fourteenth day before the Kalends of October in the forty-fifth year of his age and the fifteenth of his reign. His corpse was carried out on a common bier by those who bury the poor, and his nurse Phyllis cremated it at her suburban estate on the Via Latina; but his ashes she secretly carried to the temple of the Flavian family and mingled them with those of Julia, daughter of Titus, whom she had also reared."

"The people received the news of his death with indifference, but the soldiers were greatly grieved and at once attempted to call him the Deified Domitian; while they were prepared also to avenge him, had they not lacked leaders. This, however, they did accomplish a little later by most insistently demanding the execution of his murderers. The senators on the contrary were so overjoyed, that they raced to fill the House, where they did not refrain from assailing the dead emperor with the most insulting and stinging kind of outcries. They even had ladders brought and his shields and images torn down before their eyes and dashed upon the ground; finally they passed a decree that his inscriptions should everywhere be erased, and all record of him obliterated.

"A few months before he was killed, a raven perched on the Capitolium and cried "All will be well," an omen which some interpreted as follows:

"High on the gable Tarpeian a raven but lately alighting,
Could not say 'It is well,' only declared 'It will be.' "

"Domitian himself, it is said, dreamed that a golden hump grew out on his back, and he regarded this as an infallible sign that the condition of the empire would be happier and more prosperous after his time; and this was shortly shown to be true through the uprightness and moderate rule of the succeeding emperors." ~ C. Suetonius Tranquillus, Life of Domitianus 17 and 23

Afterward M. Cocceius Nerva, an old senator, was chosen by the Senate as the new emperor. He was unpopular with the army, reigned for roughly a year before the Praetorians revolted and forced him to adopt Marcus Ulpius Traianus as imperial heir. Not long after, on 27 January 98 CE, Nerva died and Trajan became emperor.


AUC 1077 / 324 CE: Constantine defeats Licinius at Chrysopolis

Chrysopolis was the final battle in a series of battles between the co-emperors Constantine and Licinius. Licinus had crossed over to Asia and was withdrawing to Bithynia. A naval battle in the Hellespont, won by Constantine's son Crispus, then allowed Constantine to cross and follow in pursuit. Licinius withdrew onto the city of Chrysopolis drawing other forces to him under Martinianus and Visigoths under Aliquaca, but to no avail. The defeat of Licinius left Constantine sole emperor and ended the Diocletianus experiment of a tetrarchy.


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 63

"There is also a limit in simple living, and he who fails to understand this falls into an error as great as that of the man who is given away to extravagance."



Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

Salvete omnes;

A cute picture at the "Ihasahotdog" funny dog picture site:

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/5f91ba4c-708b-46f7-9001-88eb859227b8.jpg

--
In amicitia et fide - Venator

Salve,


Now that was cute!


Vale,
Aeternia

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <
famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete omnes;
>
> A cute picture at the "Ihasahotdog" funny dog picture site:
>
>
> http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/5f91ba4c-708b-46f7-9001-88eb859227b8.jpg
>
> --
> In amicitia et fide - Venator
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae omnibus S.P.D.


Result! Job nicely done Nicodemus!


GO VENETA! VENI VIDI VICI!!!


Waves Tiger Striped Blue Fuzzy Pom-Poms pleased to see the growing masses of
color blue outshining the sparkly white.


Vale,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I don't usually post my poetry here, because, well, most of it has nothing
to do with Rome or NR ...but it's very quiet on the list, at the moment, and
this is at least, peripherally on topic, so ...for those who enjoy reading
poetry in English, I offer a small diversion.

Valete quam optime,
CMC

Penelope's Lament



O Athene! Grey-eyed Goddess,

You who capture knowledge and

In whom all wisdom abides, you

Whose deft fingers weave the

Colors of the heart into a web

That can touch and teach, I

Extend my hands to you,

Beseeching, as I have done

Each dawn, for 10 long years,

Your guidance, your help,

That, once again, I may defy

And deceive those who would

Take from my beloved all that he

Has built, and me, as prize. By

The wan light held by Artemis, did I

Unravel, yet again, yesterday's tapestry

And now, I will go back into the hall, speak

Fair words of future promise .and weave again,

Changing a hue here, a leaf there, making the web

Just a little different, in ways that cannot be quite

Defined, so that they will think it new. I will listen

Once again, to their entreaties, their blandishments,

Their unceasing demands, suggestive glances,

And make no outcry of dishonor, lest they

Abandon the tactic of persuasion, and

Enforce their wills with sword and destruction.



My son, my Telemechus, vessel of my hopes

Is still too young, still to inexperienced to

Confront them. But he grows, HE GROWS,

Each day I can deceive, I buy him time. But, oh,



I yearn for my beloved! My Ulysses, so strong,

So wise and cunning, who knows the hearts of men

And the hearts of women, too. I well remember how

Gentle he was with his new bride, how tender

And how thoughtful, that I not be humiliated by

His other women. I knew, of course .how

Could I not? And they are now, I know,

But I also know that he will come home to me

If life persists. I know that, at the end,

When he turns his face away from life, mine

Will be the hand he holds.

His last words of love will be

For me, as mine have always been

For him, and it is enough.



So, I will adorn myself, and go into my own battle

With my son beside me, and the image of my husband

Held fast in my heart .but Oh, Athene,

You of undaunted courage, warrior, protector,

It has been 10 long years, and I am soul weary!

Salve,

Mithras Reader: An Academic and Religious Journal of Greek, Roman and Persian Studies, Volume III is out this week.


We would also be grateful if you would circulate the below press release to other interested parties.

Thank you.
----Press Release-----
Mithras Reader: An Academic and Religious Journal of Greek, Roman and Persian Studies, Volume III.
Published at the Full Moon on the Autumn Equinox, 23.9.2010
by Web of Wyrd Press.
ISBN: 978-0-9556858-3-5

Available in two formats:
1) A4 paperback book, black and white interior, colour cover, 280 pages.
2) Electronic download, A4, colour interior, 280 pages.

From http://www.webofwyrdpress.com

Mithras Reader: An Academic and Religious Journal of Greek, Roman and Persian Studies is dedicated to all the religions of the classical world. The Journal contains academic papers from researchers and spiritual articles from practitioners of the religions of the classical world. The Journal also includes classical world based art work; both modern interpretations, and traditional forms.

The Journal is divided into three sections. Part 1 contains the academic papers; Part 2, art work inspired by the classical world, also sculptures and paintings; in Part 3, there are articles by modern practitioners and independent scholars, rites, hymns, stories and poetry.

You can see the book cover and abstracts and other details here:

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/mithras-reader-vol-3-an-academic-and-religious-journal-of-greek-roman-and-persian-studies/12447758

Table of Contents
Acknowledgments 4
Editorial 5
Contributors Biographies 8
Part 1: Academic Papers 14
A Journey to the Hypercosmic side of the Sun by Prof Ezio Albrile 15
Internet and the Resurrection of a God: the Neo-Mithraic Communities by Dr. Israel Campos 28
Aristotle and the Natural Slave: The Athenian Relationship with India by Robert F. Mullen, M.A. 35
The Dawn of Religions in Afghanistan-Seistan-Gandhara and the Personal Seals of Gotama Buddha and Zoroaster by Dr. Ranajit Pal 62
Dacia and the cult of Mithras by Csaba T. Szabó 84
Sun Tzu and the Achaemenid Grand Strategy by Sheda Vasseghi 98
Zen Buddhism and Mithraism by Dr. Masato Tōjō 114
A New Archaeological Research of the Sassanian Fire Temple of Rivand in Sabzevar, by Hassan Hashemi Zarjabad, Farhang khademi Nadooshan, Seyed Mehdi Mousavi, Javad Neyestani, Syed Sadrudin Mosavi Jashni, Barbara Kaim 144
The Zoroastrian Holyland of Haetumant by Reza MehrAfarin, Seyyed Rasool Mousavi Haji, and Javad Neyestani 180
The Archaeological Evidence in Tarik Dareh (Dark Valley), in Hamadan, Iran, by Masoud Rashidi Nejad and Amirhossein Salehi 196
Part 2: Arts 203
Kephra by Akashanath 204
Modern Altars by Ana C Jones 210
Part 3: Religious Articles, Poems, and Stories 212
Into The Looking Glass Tragic Reflections of Life by Lesley Madytinou 213
Solomon in Olympus: The Enduring Connection between King Solomon and Greek Magic by David Rankine 229
Orphic Hymn to Aphrodite translated by Harita Meenee 234
The Athenian Festivals of Demeter by Melissa Gold 236
The Lioness by Jane Raeburn 246
Anahita: Lady of Persia by Payam Nabarz 256
Origin of the Gathas of Asho Zarathustra by Farida Bamji 268
Mehrgan by Farida Bamji 272
A Prayer for Initiation by Katherine Sutherland 274

There is now an online launch event organised for the 8th of Oct (the day of the Persian Mehregan/Mithra festival) for the Journal at:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=151399751548708&ref=mf

----------------------------

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Vos quod fexitis, Deos omnes fortunare velim.

Hodie est ante diem XIII Kalendas Octobras; haec dies comitialis est: Ludi Romani in circo; Sol in Libram transitum facit, Crater matutino tempore apparet.

The fifteenth day of the Ludi Romani Magni took place in the Circus Maximus to watch the chariot races.

The Authority of a Pontifex Maximus

The religious responsibilities of magistrates always came before any other duties. Often it was the Senate who required magistrates to perform religious duties. In several stories the authority of the Pontifex Maximus exceeded the authority of magistrates in some matters. He could prevent consuls from joining their armies or doing any other magisterial duties, and the pontifex maximus could lay fines to compel those who disregarded his authority. Here are some examples.

AUC 511/BCE 242: "When consul Postumius, who was flamen Martialis, proposed to go to [Sicily] to wage war [in 242 BCE], the pontifex maximusMetellus named a fine and would not allow him to leave Rome, lest he depart from his religious duties. The highest state power yielded to religion, for it seemed Postumius would not safely commit himself to martial conflict after abandoning Mars' rituals." ~ Valerius Maximus 1.1.2

Livy noted the same story:

"Pontifex maximus Caecilius Metellus kept consul Aulus Postumius, who was priest of Mars too, in the city when he wanted to set out to wage war. He was not allowed to ignore his religious duties." ~ T. Livius, Perioche 19.11

AUC 544/BCE 209: "P. Licinius, the Pontifex Maximus, compelled C. Valerius Flaccus to be consecrated, against his will, a Flamen of Jupiter." ~ T. Livius 27.8

AUC 547 / 206 BCE: "No wonder therefore if the indulgence of the Gods has persisted, ever watchful to augment and protect an imperial power by which even minor items of religious significance are seen to be weighed with such scrupulous care; for never should our community be thought to have averted its eyes from the most meticulous practice of religious observances. In which community, when M. Marcellus, who first took Clastidium [222 BCE] and then Syracusa [211 BCE], desired in his fifth consulship to consecrate a temple to Honos and Virtus in due discharge of vows he had taken, he was obstructed by the Collegium Pontificum on the ground that a single sanctuary could not properly be dedicated to two deities, arguing that if some prodigy were to occur therein, it would be impossible to determine to which of the two an expiatory ceremony should be performed and that it was not customary to sacrifice to two deities at once, with certain exceptions. The pontifical admonition resulted in Marcellus placing images of Honor and Virtus in two different edifices. Thus neither the authority of so great a man weighed with the Collegium Pontificum nor the additional expense with Marcellus so as to interfere with due course and due observance rendered in matters of religion." ~ Valerius Maximus 1.1.8 [Also see Livius 27.25.7-10]

AUC 553 / 200 BCE: "While the consuls were raising troops and preparing for war, the citizens were occupied with religious observances, especially those which were usual when a fresh war began. The special intercessions and prayers at all the shrines had been duly offered, but that nothing might be omitted the consul to whom Macedonia was allotted was authorised to vow Games in honour of Jupiter and an offering to his temple. This matter was delayed through the action of the Pontifex Maximus, Licinius, who laid it down that no vow ought to be made unless the sum required to discharge it was paid, because the money so appropriated could not be used in connection with the war, and ought to be at once set apart and not mixed up with other money." ~ T. Livius 31.9

AUC 558 /195 BCE: "Before the consuls left the City they were required, in accordance with a decretum pontificum, to proclaim a Sacred Spring. This was in fulfilment of a vow made by the praetor A. Cornelius Mammula at the desire of the senate and by order of the people twenty-one years previously in the consulship of Cn. Servilius and C. Flaminius." ~ T. Livius 33.34

AUC 563 / 190 BCE: "Before the praetors left for their provinces a dispute arose between P. Licinius, the Pontifex Maximus, and the Flamen Quirinalis, Q. Fabius Pictor. There had been a similar dispute many years previously between L. Metellus and Postumius Albinus. Metellus was Pontifex Maximus at the time, and had prevented Albinus, the newly elected consul, from accompanying his colleague to the fleet at Sicily. On the present occasion, P. Licinius had detained the praetor from going to Sardinia and kept him at his sacred duties. The question was hotly debated both in the senate and in the comitia, orders were made on both sides, sureties accepted, fines imposed, the authority of the tribunes invoked and appeals laid before the comitia. At last the claims of religion prevailed and the Flamen was ordered to obey the Pontifex's direction; the fine imposed upon him was remitted by order of the people." ~ T. Livius 37.51

AUC 574 / 179 BCE: "The filling of the vacancy caused by the death of Cneius Cornelius Dolabella, the rex sacrificulus, led to a dispute between the Pontifex Maximus C. Servilius and L. Cornelius Dolabella, one of the two directors of naval affairs. The pontifex required him to resign his post in order that he might inaugurate him. On his refusing to do so, the pontifex imposed a fine upon him, and on his appeal the question of the fine was argued before the Comitia. When several of the tribes had declared by their votes that the naval director should comply with the pontifex's requirement, and that if he resigned his post the fine should be remitted." ~ T. Livius 40.42

AUC 594/BCE 160: "Praetor Gnaeus Tremellius was fined, because he had illegally opposed Pontifex Maximus Marcus Aemilius Lepidus. The claims of the religious authorities were stronger than that of the magistrates." ~ T. Livius, Perioche 47.1

A magistrate could appeal a fine leveled by the pontifex maximus. However, in no instance did a comitia challenge the authority of the pontifex maximus or reverse his decision. At most, a comitia would set aside a fine so long as the magistrate complied with the authority of the pontifex maximus.


The Bed of the Flamen Dialis:

"The feet of the couch on which he sleeps must be smeared with a thin coating of clay, and he must not sleep away from this bed for three nights in succession, and no other person must sleep in that bed. At the foot of his bed there should be a box with sacrificial cakes." ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae 10.15.14

This was one of the prohibitions that made it difficult for the Flamen Dialis to hold any magistracy that would call him away from the City. As recorded by Gellius, this version dates to the time of Augustus, when the prohibition was partially relaxed. It is another example of how the Romans alterred their traditions even as they claimed the mos maiorum to justify their traditions. It was again challenged during the reign of Tiberius:

"[Claudius] next consulted the senate on the question of founding a college of diviners, so that "the oldest art of Italy should not become extinct through their indolence. Often, in periods of public adversity, they had called in diviners, on whose advice religious ceremonies had been renewed and, for the future, observed with greater correctness; while the Etruscan nobles, voluntarily or at the instance of the Roman senate, had kept up the art and propagated it in certain families. Now that work was done more negligently through the public indifference to all liberal accomplishments, combined with the progress of alien superstitions. For the moment, indeed, all was flourishing; but they must show their gratitude to the favour of Heaven by making sure that the sacred rituals observed in the time of hazard were not forgotten in the day of prosperity." A senatorial decree was accordingly passed, instructing the pontiffs to consider what points in the discipline of the haruspices needed to be maintained or strengthened." ~ P. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 11.15


AUC 839 / 86 CE: Birth of Titus Aurelius Antoninus Pius.

Unlike Hadrian before him, Antoninus Pius remained in Rome. His reign was mostly uneventful. A revolt of the Brigantes in Britannia (142/143) led Q. Lollius Urbicus to buid the Antonine Wall from the Forth to the Clyde. Made of turf, it lay north of Hadrian's Wall and was soon abandoned. An inconclusive war was fought with Vologesus of Parthia. And Marcus Aurelius, who married Faustina, daughter of Antoninus Pius, was chosen as the imperial heir, over the incompetent Verus. Antoninus managed to gain Senate approval for deification of Hadrianus and to build him a temple, in spite of the resentment of the Senate towards Hadrian. His filial pietas was rewarded by the cognomen Pius. Marcus Aurelius wrote of him, "In my father I observed mildness of temper, and unchangeable resolution in the things which he had determined after due deliberation; and no vainglory in those things which men call honours; and a love of labour and perseverance; and a readiness to listen to those who had anything to propose for the common weal; and undeviating firmness in giving to every man according to his deserts; and a knowledge derived from experience of the occasions for vigorous action and for remission (Meditations 1.16.1).

The Temple of Hadrian, built by Antoninus Pius, was restored in Sept. 2008. Built in 145 CE, today one external wall, with 11 Corinthian columns, remains, as well as pieces of the marble base, in the Piazza di Pietra. The wall was incorporated into a Medieval fortress, later a 17th century papal palace, and today is part of the building that houses the Chamber of Commerce of Rome and the city's stock exchange.


Today's thought is from Stobaeus, Ethical Sentences 42:

"To the wise man every land is eligible as a place of residence; for the whole world is the country of the worthy soul."


Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

FYI



To: explorator@yahoogroups.com; BRITARCH@...
From: rogueclassicist@...
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:21:42 -0400
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 13.22






================================================================
explorator 13.22 September 19, 2010
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!

================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, Diana Wright,Donna Hurst,
Edward Rockstein, Rick Heli,Hernan Astudillo, Kurt Theis,
John McMahon, Barnea Selavan, Joseph Lauer, Mike Ruggeri,
Bob Heuman, Rochelle Altman, Toke Lindegaard Knudsen,
and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses this week (as always
hoping I have left no one out).

... sorry this one took so long folks ... kids kept asking me
questions about homework this a.m. ...
================================================================
EARLY HUMANS
================================================================
Feature on Piltdown Man:

http://www.dchieftain.com/dc/index.php/news/2121-fraud-in-science-piltdown-the-man-who-never-was.html

On the importance of empathy in human evolution:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/sep/19/evolution-frans-de-waal-primatologist

An interesting method for determining the diet of early hominids:

http://www.physorg.com/news203854387.html
================================================================
AFRICA
================================================================
An update of sorts on the search for Chinese shipwrecks off Kenya:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/kenya/100910/seeking-proof-chinas-ancient-trade-africa

... related:

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/regional/National%20Museums%20defends%20the%20digging%20up%20of%20ancient%20kingdom%20%20/-/1070/1010264/-/8wt57hz/-/

Petroglyphs of varying ages at 100 or so sites from Somaliland:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/17/cave-paintings-found-in-somaliland
http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=27019

More on Nubian beer:

http://www.jhunewsletter.com/news/2010/09/16/ScienceTech/Ancient.Nubians.Cured.Selves.With.Beer-3933258.shtml
================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
The burial chamber of Karahamun has been located within his
recently-rediscovered
tomb:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/astrological-scene-found-on-egyptian-tomb-ceiling.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39233479/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/9/15/apworld/20100915193130&sec=apworld
http://www.drhawass.com/blog/press-release-tomb-karakhamun-found-egyptian-american-team

We heard of that CT scan of Nefertiti's bust a while back ... now we get the
spins:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/nefertiti-recipient-of-the-worlds-first-successful-facelift-2083297.html

There's an Egyptologist at Harvard again!:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/9/15/manuelian-der-course-egypt/

From the Tall Harmal excavations comes evidence of an 'ancient university'
sort of thing:

http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/1/180358/

There are plenty of sites in Iraqi Kurdistan, apparently:

http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/1/180780/

They've found Herod's theatre box at Herodium:

http://www.jpost.com/LocalIsrael/AroundIsrael/Article.aspx?id=188111
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=188399
http://www.huji.ac.il/dovrut/HerodiumRoyalBox.doc
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2010/September/King-Herods-Royal-Box-Uncovered/
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/xinhua/2010-09-14/content_868756.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2306788/posts

A sculpture of a hawk that dates back to the tenth milliennium B.C./B.C.E.
from Syria:

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/oldest-sculpture-of-hawk-discovered-in-syria_100429013.html
http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201009147240/Related-news-from-Syria/french-archaeologists-the-oldest-sculpture-of-hawk-in-the-world-discovered-in-syria.html
http://www.sana.sy/eng/35/2010/09/15/307421.htm

A 4th century B.C./B.C.E. statue of Melkart from Kadmous (Syria):

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201009177271/Related-news-from-Syria/archaeologists-4th-century-bc-statue-unearthed-in-syria.html
http://www.sana.sy/eng/35/2010/09/16/307840.htm

Some 8500 years b.p. burials from Bursa:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=ancient-bodies-found-in-turkey-2010-09-16

Review of Toby Wilkinson, *The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt*:

http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/leisure/8393163.Rise_and_Fall_of_Ancient_Egypt/

Egyptology News Blog:

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/

Egyptology Blog:

http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/

Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:

http://blog.ritmeyer.com/

Paleojudaica:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

Persepolis Fortification Archives:

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

Archaeologist at Large:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
A Roman cavalry helmet find by a metal detectorist:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39150821/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2010/09/13/ancient_roman_helmet_to_be_auctioned_in_britain
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/sep/13/roman-helmet-metal-detector-cumbria
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/8391068.Rare_Roman_helmet_found_near_Appleby/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-england-cumbria-11287093
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8000018/Rare-Roman-helmet-and-face-mask-discovered.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harrymount/100046849/the-cumbrian-helmet-that-shows-what-sophisticated-artists-the-romans-were/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/entertainment-arts-11289935
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=40775
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1311690/Roman-helmet-unearthed-metal-detector-expected-fetch-300-000-auction.html

... and a campaign to keep it where it was found:

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/8391068.Campaign_to_keep_rare_Roman_helmet_found_in_Cumbria/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-11326171
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/carlisle-museum-launches-public-appeal-to-buy-crosby-garrett-roman-helmet-1.759082?referrerPath=home
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/carlisle-museum-raises-20-000-in-four-days-to-buy-crosby-garrett-roman-helmet-1.759365?referrerPath=news
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/appeal-launched-to-keep-rare-roman-helmet-in-cumbria-1.757603?referrerPath=news

... and a suit of Roman armour from Wales:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/uk-wales-11288684
http://www.physorg.com/news203770586.html
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/09/15/15363666.html
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/8399961.Caerleon_dig_sheds_light_on_time_when_Romans_left/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11292227

Evidence of Roman military success in northern Germany:

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/344294,germany-battle-feature.html
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/features/article_1584567.php/New-finds-suggest-Romans-won-big-North-Germany-battle-Feature
http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=0330039XAXO3

Tying the Romans' love of shellfish to an environmental project:

http://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/Those-Romans-really-were-a.6534856.jp

A mysterious child burial inside Vindolanda Roman fort:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-11324607
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/15/roman-child-murder-vindolanda
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2010/09/15/remains-of-a-child-found-at-vindolanda-roman-fort-61634-27268934/
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/durham/8394422.Roman_era_murder_victim___s_bones_found/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1312338/Murder-mystery-1-800-year-old-girl-buried-ancient-Roman-barracks.html?ITO=1490

An Iron Age and/or early Roman farming settlement found during school
construction in London:

http://www.torontosun.com/travel/europe/2010/09/16/15370176-reuters.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68F2WW20100916
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jOrCJpXglAovpLnVQEV4Y6ar0qkA
http://www.suttonguardian.co.uk/news/8394764.EXCLUSIVE__Roman_remains_uprooted/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1312564/Iron-Age-human-sacrificial-animal-remains-site-new-school.html

Remains of a Roman villa in Sofia:

http://www.sofiaecho.com/2010/09/17/961963_archaeology-roman-villa-excavated-in-sofia-borough

This facial reconstruction of a 5th century Athenian girl has finally made
it to the English press:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-europe-11309510
http://www.3news.co.nz/Scientists-give-a-face-to-ancient-Greek-girl/tabid/1160/articleID/175967/Default.aspx

Very interesting sixth century B.C. (or thereabouts) burials from Pella:

http://www.physorg.com/news203869974.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100916/sc_afp/greecearchaelogy_20100916190042

A depiction of Tyche from a fresco at Sussita:

http://www.physorg.com/news203852084.html
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/greek_gods_land_jesus
http://newmedia-eng.haifa.ac.il/?p=3593
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100916100503.htm
http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/25636.php?from=168794

A virtual fire at the Colosseum:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68G34F20100917

Roman beauty secrets:

http://www.inloughborough.com/news/098597/Revolting%20Roman%20beauty%20secrets%20revealed

Feature on the Forma Urbis:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/09/ancient-jigsaw-puzzle-shattered-roman-artifact-bedevils-experts/

An update on the Rosia Montana gold mine saga:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/18092010/323/romanians-seek-halt-canadian-gold-project.html

On the Aeneid and Halo:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/09/14/halo-reach-is-like-classical-literature-professor-says/

On comparing modern Israel to ancient Greek city states:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=188090

On reading Plato at Columbia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-doherty/reading-plato-with-columb_b_715212.html

What Michael Gagarian is up to:

http://www.wabash.edu/news/displaystory.cfm?news_ID=8309

There's going to be an I, Claudius radio serial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/arts/14arts-BRINGYOUROWN_BRF.html
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/13/roman-holiday-new-i-claudius-with-derek-jacobi-coming-to-british-radio/?ref=arts

More on who is buried (or not) in a Vergina tomb:

http://www.newkerala.com/news2/fullnews-42536.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100916/sc_livescience/tombtwisterskeletonmaybealexanderthegreatsfather
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39211698/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://www.livescience.com/culture/ancient-greece-tomb-alexander-great-philip-ii-100915.html

More Marathon anniversary coverage:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/greek-city-of-marathon-marks-anniversary-20100912-1575c.html

... and a Pheidippides FAQ:

http://rwdaily.runnersworld.com/2010/09/a-pheidippides-f-a-q.html

More on the Greeks and Halley's Comet:

http://www.physorg.com/news203573928.html
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/ancient-greeks-spotted-halleys-comet-100914.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39173498/ns/technology_and_science-space/
http://news.discovery.com/space/did-the-greeks-spot-halleys-comet-first.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0915/Did-the-ancient-Greeks-spot-Halley-s-Comet

More on those restored cave paintings from Petra:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39151076/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1915613/greeks_first_to_spot_halleys_comet/index.html?source=r_space
http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/international/4132968/Ancient-Petra-paintings-rescued
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68C1TQ20100913
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/08/photogalleries/100902-petra-wine-cult-cave-art-restored-world-science-pictures/#/cave-paintings-little-petra-face_25506_600x450.jpg

More on identifying ancient pills:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/roman-ship-medical-kit.html
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/article/2010-09-13-ancient-greek-pills-give-modern-scientists-a-new-high

More on Athena Nike:

http://www.ana.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=9110858&maindocimg=9109192&service=144&showLink=true

That charioteer story just won't go away:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/magazine/20100913_Charioteer_was_in_the_chips.html

More on potential threats to Libyan sites by BP:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/news/bp-well-threatens-ancient-libyan-sites-2077153.html

Review of Steven Saylor, *Empire*:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/watching-rome-burn-with-steven-saylor/Content?oid=2058442

Review of Adrienne Mayor, *Poison King*:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/657189

Latest reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/

Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
Somewhat indirect report of the discovery of an Iron Age/Celtic necropolis
in Spain:

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Limerick-student-Carol-helps-discover.6535675.jp

Bronze Age burials from an Asda supermarket construction site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11316583

Saxon finds from a side near Aldeburgh:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/suffolk/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9001000/9001249.stm

An Iron Age settlement from Bengeworth is opening to the public:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/herefordandworcester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8987000/8987925.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-11296608

I think we've mentioned this Bronze Age 'cold case' before:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/isleofman/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9002000/9002556.stm

Shropshire Iron Age history from the air:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/shropshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8995000/8995891.stm

Funding for a site associated with Owain Glyndwr:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11328116

Bronze Age gold bracelets from Kent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-11277386
cf: http://eastkent.owarch.co.uk/

A 1500 b.p. ring from Funen (Danish):

http://kpn.dk/article2180703.ece

Brief bit of hype about medieval remains from Stirling Castle:

http://news.scotsman.com/news/Some-light-on-old-bones.6532562.jp

Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
Neolithic artifacts from a cave in Viet Nam's Na Hang district:

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/Life-Style/203619/Neolithic-era-cave-was-home-to-early-humans-.html

A very interesting coffin of an empress from Shaanxi province:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90782/90873/7140112.html

Han and Qin dynasty earthenware cooking items from the Ningxia Hui region:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90782/7143685.html

A huge grinding stone from Pallavaram:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/Road-workers-stumble-upon-ancient-grinding-stone-in-Pallavaram-/articleshow/6581764.cms

Australian Aborigines are claimed to be the first astronomers:

http://www.physorg.com/news203921332.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/aborigines-worlds-first-astronomers-study/story-e6frg8y6-1225925472832?from=public_rss

Trying to save Afghanistan's Buddhist history:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575482251955785046.html

East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/east-asian-archaeology-cultural-heritage-%E2%80%93-2052010/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
An update of sorts on the North Creek Shelter site:

http://universe.byu.edu/node/10632

9500 years b.p. artifacts from a 'Game Creek' site (Wyoming ... not sure
if it's actually called that):

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=6462

Account of a talk about the Pawnee National Grasslands area:

http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-local-news/ci_16101980?source=rss

Arguing over the nachleben of a recently-discovered War of 1812 era
shipwreck:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Fate+1812+shipwreck+playing+courts/3513772/story.html
================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
Some recent discoveries at Xochicalco:

http://www.inah.gob.mx/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4559:exploran-milenaria-calzada-en-xochicalco&catid=8:investigaciones-y-estudios-historicos&Itemid=35

A Chachapoyan site from Peru:

http://enperublog.com/2010/09/14/new-chachapoyan-archaeological-site-discovered/

Marking the Mexican bicentennial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/13/world/americas/13bicentennial.html

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:

http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

Ancient MesoAmerica News:

http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
================================================================
OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
================================================================
Came across this item on the "Fool's Cap Map of the World":

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24015

On the DNA front, it appears that a couple of Columbus' shipmates were the
first
Africans in the New World:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19455-graveyard-dna-rewrites-african-american-history.html

Comic 'Divine Comedy' (sort of):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129834929

Folks will probably be interested in Werner Herzog's *Cave of Forgotten
Dreams*,
which premiered at the TIFF this week:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/09/shadows_on_the_walls_of_our_ca.html

... and as long as we're on the subject, there are some
previously-unpublished photos
from Lascaux making the rounds:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/12/inside-lascaux-the-versai_n_712645.html

... and concern for it in general:

http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/article/2010/09/11/lascaux-un-patrimoine-fragilise_1409935_3246.html
">http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/ article/2010/09/11/lascaux-un-
patrimoine-fragilise_1409935_ 3246.html

... and Sarkozy seems to have access to things we folk don't:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/closed-to-the-public-but-sarkozy-gains-access-to-threatened-cave-art-2077575.html

Interesting evidence that Hillard may have been the artist of a couple of
portraits of
Elizabeth II:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11277451
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2010/sep/13/queen-elizabeth-portraits

On glacial retreat and archaeological finds:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100914/lf_nm_life/us_climate_vikings_1
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68D1L120100914

A semi-reviewish thing has some interesting things to say about Victorian
'freakshow' performers:

http://www.physorg.com/news203875580.html

Humans are off the hook for driving a 'mythical' fly to extinction:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9008000/9008585.stm

More on the reopening of the Vatican Library:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=40791
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1311945/Stunning-Vatican-library-reopening-years-7-5m-restoration.html?ITO=1490
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Vatican-to-Open-High-Tech-Library-for-Ancient-Volumes-102782169.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11288225

Some Koraniana of interest:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/the-meaning-of-the-koran/

Reviewish sort of thing of Ian Morris, *Why the West Rules -- For Now*:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/september/morris-west-rules-091410.html

Review of Robert Gottlieb, *Sarh: the Life of Sarah Bernhardt*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/books/review/Brockes-t.html

Review of Ilyon Woo, *The Great Divorce*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/books/review/Norton-t.html
================================================================
TOURISTY THINGS
================================================================
Athens:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/greece/athens/7999404/Athens-Greece-cultural-city-guide.html

Hadrian's Wall:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/uk/8008399/Hadrians-Wall-Another-world-beyond-the-wall.html

Twain's Nicaragua:

http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/travel/19footsteps.html
================================================================
BLOGS AND PODCASTS
================================================================
About.com Archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/

Archaeology Briefs:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/

Naked Archaeology Podcast:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/archaeology/

Taygete Atlantis excavations blogs aggregator:

http://planet.atlantides.org/taygete/

Time Machine:

http://heatherpringle.wordpress.com/
================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
The Golb trial has started:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/09/14/dead_sea_scrolls_debate_spurs_ny_criminal_trial
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/sep/14/dead-sea-scrolls-debate-spurs-criminal-trial/?partner=yahoo_headlines
http://www.baylor.edu/lariat/news.php?action=story&story=79632
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8009475/Dead-Sea-Scrolls-dispute-comes-to-New-York-court.html
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/scholar_says_he_never_ripped_off_8CNm9lpVrM9cUQOVMnBjbK
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100914/ap_on_re_us/us_dead_sea_scrolls
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gznCOrQo0Iw8H1s_BUyqyDXHcO8AD9I7T9380

Some items stolen from an Egyptian necropolis a decade ago have been found
in Spain:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-europe-11312729
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/egyptian-relics-found-in-spanish-shop-20100916-15dwz.html
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=41361
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20100915/world-news/pieces-of-ancient-egyptian-necropolis-found-in-spain

Some artifacts which were recovered by customs and being stored in the WTC
have been restored and
returned to Iraq:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/arts/design/16tablets.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/relics-kept-in-the-twin-towers-sent-back-to-iraq-2081650.html

The British Library is returning a Beneventan Missal to Italy because it was
looted
during WWII:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11312092

Followup to that 'strange painting theft' case we mentioned a few weeks ago:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/nyregion/16painting.html

Some Caddo Indian pottery is missing from Southern Arkansas University:

http://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/WireHeadlines/2010/09/14/caddo-indian-pottery-missing-from-campus-1.php

Looting Matters:

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/

Illicit Cultural Property:

http://illicit-cultural-property.blogspot.com/
================================================================
NUMISMATICA
================================================================

Latest eSylum newsletter:

http://www.coinbooks.org/club_nbs_esylum_v13n37.html

Ancient Coin Collecting:

http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins:

http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

Coin Link:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
================================================================
A History of the World (BM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/explorerflash/

Pre-Raphaelites and Italy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/oxford/hi/things_to_do/newsid_8993000/8993836.stm

The Immortal Alexander the Great:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=40972

Heroes: Mortals and Myths:

http://usa.greekreporter.com/2010/09/13/new-york-%E2%80%93-art-exhibition-%E2%80%9Cheroes-mortals-and-myths-in-ancient-greece%E2%80%9D-at-onassis-cultural-center-2/

Salvator Rosa:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2010/sep/14/dulwich-picture-gallery-gothic-birth

Art and Myth in Ancient Peru:

http://as.americas-society.org/areas.php?k=current_exhibition

Ballplayers, Gods, and Rainmaker Kings:

http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/exhibition/Ballplayers

Nueva York:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/arts/design/17nueva.html

Mark Twain:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/books/18twain.html

Epic of the Persian Kings:

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=226947

Italy's Palazzo Barberini is getting some hype:

http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/35804/a-roman-louvre-italy-opens-its-collection-of-masterpieces-in-palazzo-barberini/

The Vatican has lent the Victoria and Albert some interesting tapestries:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11345872

A Chinese emperor's seal is expected to fetch a major price at Bonham's:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=40814

Some Nisga'a items were repatriated:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/terracestandard/news/102753914.html

That 'deaccessioning' injunction in New York State has come to an end:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/board-of-regents-to-allow-special-rules-on-museums-sales-of-art-to-expire/

More on the BM and the Cyrus Cylinder:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/15/iran-cyrus-cylinderbritish-museum
http://www.paltelegraph.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6989:british-museum-loosens-grip-on-cyrus-cylinder&catid=72:arts&Itemid=157

... with calls for expansion of ties with Iran's National Museum:

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=226636

On the Paris Bennale:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/arts/18iht-melik18.html

More on that big donation to the BM:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/12/lord-sainsbury-philanthropic-lead
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE68B0IO20100912
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/7997358/Lord-Sainsbury-gives-25m-to-British-Museum.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311384/Tory-peer-gives-25m-donation-British-Museum.html?ITO=1490

================================================================
PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
================================================================
Elektra:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-cm-elektra-getty-villa-sl,0,4538583.storylink?track=rss

A Baroque Pastiche:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/arts/music/15opera.html

Buxtehude and Bach:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/arts/music/14sacred.html

Connecting Brahms and Schoenberg:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/arts/music/17shai.html
================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
George Rich:

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/12/3022913/obituary-george-rich-noted-csus.html

William H. Goetzmann:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/arts/12goetzmann.html

Colin Austin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/professor-colin-austin-2077447.html

Bernard Knox:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/culture-obituaries/books-obituaries/8007546/Professor-Bernard-Knox.html

================================================================
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The Book and the Spade:

http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm

The Dig:

http://www.thedigradio.com/

Stone Pages Archaeology News:

http://news.stonepages.com/

Archaeologica Audio News:

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravio Piscino s.d.


I am coming back to you as announced in my recent answer, in the Senatorial Senaculum, to the insults you thought necessary to address me there. You will find below the position that I have postponed, counting on your good will to help us consuls assisting Nova Roma solving Its difficulties "through the top".


Last Aug. 18, I reminded to you that the fact allowing M. Hortensia Maior to keep a religious office was a violation of the judicial sentence given by iudex Sabinus' tribunal pridie idus Quintiles, for this sentence, with no ambiguity had inflicted to her �an inhabilitatio to hold or to be candidate for any Nova Roman magistracy or office until Kal. Ian. 2764 a.U.c." and did not thus �make any difference among the various offices� (my letter of Aug. 21, NRAnnounce #2110).


The same day, you answered to me that you had no intention helping me having this sentence applied, affirming that �Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum.�


Hortensia has been informed the same day, and did not show the slightest will to take in consideration the pronounced sentence.


I have left to you, as a sign of good will, and while you had used your influence in and on the Collegium Pontificum to bring it to issue against me a decision of �impietas�, more than three weeks to let time enough to well understand the sentence and to change your mind.


As you have not taken profit of this time, I can but issue again my statement: M. Hortensia Maior remained since last pridie idus Quint. in a Nova Roma public office and willingly violated the judicial sentence pronounced this day ; by opposing the sentence and assessing your intent to, you have committed the shared the same violation.


Though the time be no more for discussion, I will just remind the following, on your three arguments according which :
1/ Hortensia having been maintained in its position by a decretum pontificum, this rule should prevail, according the constitution, on the edictum publishing the sentence ;
2/ the sentence did not specify what offices which were concerned ;
3/ only the Collegium Pontificum has constitutional jurisdiction over appointing, retaining, or dismissing sacerdotes under its administration.


The second argument is at the limit of bad faith: when a sentence is general and does not enter details, it must be interpreted as such, according all the general and legal principles of interpretation.


On the first argument, you cannot argue seriously that the form of the sentence � an edictum � would lower the judicial sentence and deprive it of any execution. If we were to adopt your argumentation, no judicial sentence might create rights and duties, the Hortensia's one or others ones. This would mean that a judicial sentence, published by a curule magistrate might be canceled at any time by this magistrate. Such reasoning deprives our judicial system of its whole meaning and efficiency and cannot thus be accepted.


On the third argument, if the CP keeps his full disciplinary rights to rule its daily life, it cannot seriously pretend to escape a judicial sentence given on behalf of the Republic, and a fortiori here by one of our most respected citizens. Again, Moravi, there is not two different Nova Romas: one for the religious colleges, where �optimates� would be safe from the application and execution of the ordinary laws of our Republic, and the other Nova Roma, where the citizens would assume their obligations.


Last you under-evaluated a point: though I have been patient enough to let you repeating your argumentation, this point of view, respectable as an individual's one, cannot be opposed in the working of our institutions, to the interpretation given, with the agreement of the Tribunal, by the consul maior who has in addition assumed the responsibility, pro praetoribus, of the public action in the concerned trial.




I have let you, as a sign of good will and respect of the charge of Pontifex Maximus you assumed, a 2 months period of impunity in order that you listen my calls and come back to a Republican application of our Law. M. Hortensia Maior's recent resignation does not erase the own violation that you, personally, and in full knowledge, committed.


It is time for me, even if I cannot but regret that your obstinacy did not allow you to hear the voice of reason and Law and thus avoid a new wound for our institutions, to close this period of impunity and therefore inform you, that :




all the sessions of the CP wherein Hortensia sat and vote, since her condemnation , shall be considered as void and with no legal force, in due application of the Iulia sentence ;

I will accept, acting pro praetore, the petitiones actionis which might be laid against you, for either your refusal applying the Iulia sentence, or obstructing its execution, or both grounds ;

every similar refusal to apply this judicial sentence, or to obstruct it, will be considered as an intentional will to oppose and obstruct the normal working of our Republican institutions ;

independently of the complex situation created by the last session on the appointment of a PM pro tempore, I will not officially consider you, as far as I am concerned in the exercise of my duties, as any longer able to be the legitimate representative of the Collegia Pontificum and Augurum and their voice in the daily life of the Republic ;

I will not take in account any decision issued by both religious colleges as long as they have not:


officially and clearly recognized and accepted to respect the Caecilius vs. Hortensia sentence and every judicial sentence legally held,

reorganized them so that they be conform to the composition of the Colleges set by the Constitution and with all its own internal rules,

have appointed a new PM and a new Magister augurum who will look for dialogue and not conduct a systematic obstruction.


Vale,






P. Memmius Albucius
consul, ag. p. pr.
datum Lutetiae pr. Id. Sept. 2763 auc

_________________________________________________________


19/8 16:20 rory12001@...,
cc.: Marcus Moravius Horatius Piscinus, Iulius Sabinus,


Hortensiae Praetoriae s.d.

You will find below the correspondence between the Pontifex Maximus and me, as consul, with a copy to former Iudex Sabinus censor.

I thought necessary that you be aware of it, for you are concerned.

If ever you, in the interval of time, decided, with a stated day, to give up your religious office in order to compel to the judicial sentence given by Iudex Iulius, please inform me asap.

If you decided to stay in your position and were still in it on next Monday, I will inform you of the measures that I would be obliged to take in order that the sentence which condemned you be fully respected and this new violation sanctioned.

Thanks and vale,


Albucius cos.








Thursday, August 19, 2010, 02:02 PM


Salve Pontifice Maxime, and salve Censor,


I thank you for your immediate answer, Moravi, though I am deceived by it. Deceived but not surprised, for your position seems to be coherent with the reading of Nova Roma and of Rome that you have defended during the last years.


I will not discuss it about here, for I think that, even if our History of Rome is a common one, your reading of Rome and mine cannot get conciliated and that, at least in your view imo, you use this reading as a tool to back up your position and conception of how a Roman State, or at least Nova Roma should work.


I will just pick up your argument, often used by non-French contradictors towards French ones, the fact that a Roman Republic is not a French modern one wherein cults and State are strictly separated. You will note that this is exactly my position as consul in the application of the judicial sentence given by Iudex Iulius : as the term "office" has not been defined restrictively, and *as we know no separation between Religion and Civil fields in our Constitutive powers*, there is no way escaping to this simple truth that an office is an office, and that you are not authorized to interpret, as pontifex, this sentence as you prefer, according your own convictions and your political analysis and interests.


I will not reminded here that I have several times proposed to you, as current Representative as the whole Collegia, to work with both consuls in order to amend our laws and decreta so that they be in conformity with the Constitution and with the traditional right or the curule magistrates to take their auspices and be assisted, according their wish, by religious "technicians". Your refusal of such work is also logical in the frame of your own positions and conceptions.


As Censor Sabinus has already underlined it, I cannot but state, with no pleasure, that you grant our judicial system a very relative place, according the fact that you are actor of a trial (Cincinnatus case) or are requested to apply the sentence (here).


As you said yourself below, you will not be surprised that I draw the consequences of your position which is that "Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum" and that as Pontifex Maximus you refuse to give your assistance to the application of a judicial sentence legally pronounced, and that you publicly declare that you oppose to it.




Vale Pontifex Maxime,




Albucius cos.



__________________________________________________________________________________________

Thursday, August 19, 2010, 12:20 AM
(..)


Even if I am a pontifex and a representative of the Roman Religion, I am not a fan of the immixture between religion and magisterial duties in the way are happen these days in NR. For me, a consul represents one of our supreme authorities. Consul has imperium and imperium is granted by the Gods. What a consul wants to do with his imperium is his responsibility but we, the rest, must take it in consideration.


With another words, I let that issue in the consul hands in order to respect his position.
(..)
Valete,
Sabinus





Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:01 AM


M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus P. Memmio Albucio s. p. d.


At most the sentence from a tribunal is issued as a magisterial edictum. Flamenica M. Hortensia was appointed by decreta of the Collegium Pontificum to two offices, as Sacerdos Mentis and later as Flamenica Carmentis. Under the Constitution I.B on Legal precedence. "This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima, laws properly voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurum, Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending authority as described in section IV of this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take precedence.


You do not have authority to issue any edictum that conflicts with previous decreta pontifica. Ergo, your interpretation is in error of the Constitution states. The sentence of the tribunal, issued as an edictum, cannot conflict with the decreta pontifica that appointed M. Hortensia to her sacerdotal offices, and therefore the sentence does not apply to her sacerdotal offices.


Further, as you say, the sentence did not specify what offices, and in the absence of any specification it cannot be taken that the sentence in anyway referred to M. Hortensia's sacerdotal offices. In fact the iudex in the case has already informed the Collegium Pontificum that he did not regard his sentence as applying to any of her sacerdotal offices.


Furthermore, by the Decretum pontificum de sacerdotibus and earlier decreta pontifica, the Collegium Pontificum has already specified that under the Constitution VI.B.1 only the Collegium Pontificum has constitutional jurisdiction over appointing, retaining, or dismissing sacerdotes under its administration. You have no authority as a consul, or acting praetor, in this matter to dictate anything to the Collegium. Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum.


Vade in pace Deorum

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 6:20 PM

Pontifico Maximo s.d.


If I am not wrong, M. Hortensia Maior still holds a religious office.


You sure remember that the sentence given last pridie Idus Quintiles by Iudex Iulius Sabinus says that his Tribunal "CONDEMN[s] M. Hortensia Maior and INFLICT to her an inhabilitatio to hold or to be candidate for any Nova Roman magistracy or office until Kal. Ian. 2764 a.U.c."


It is not useful, I think, reminding to you that, as the sentence did not specified which possible kind of offices or magistracies might be concerned, this sentence must therefore and naturally be understood as concerning both civil and religious offices and magistracies.


It is not necessary, furthermore, reminding that the individual opinion we may have on such case, as on every judicial case judged in Nova Roma, has no importance.


So, if Hortensia were to be still in office, she would be in violation of the Iulian sentence, and of our laws. As I did not wish that some misdunderstanding of the sentence may prevent you to bring your support to the application of the sentence and to be yourself reproached to help the condemned civis to escape her penalty, I preferred issuing the present official information.


I therefore request you to bring your support, as Pontifex Maximus, to the application of the judicial sentence "Caecilius vs. Hortensia", to inform the Collegium of my communication and to confirm to me, before next a.d. XI Kal. Septembres (Su. 22 Aug.) Rome time:
- whether or not Hortensia still holds at the current time a religious office, and which one ;
- the measures that you took to apply, as Pontifex Maximus, the judicial sentence.


Vale Pontifex Maxime,



P. Memmius Albucius consul


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Curate ut valeatis, et Di vos servent.

Hodie est ante diem XII Kalendas Octobres; haec dies fastus est:

"All Nature takes from the earth as much as is enough to nourish itself." ~ L. Annaeus Seneca, Naturales Quaestiones 2.6.1

"Many persons, for the more effectual protection of millet, recommend that a bramble-frog should be carried at night round the field before the hoeing is done, and then buried in an earthen vessel in the middle of it. If this is done, they say, neither sparrows nor worms will attack the crop. The frog, however, must be disinterred before the millet is cut; for if this is neglected, the produce will be bitter. . . . I know for certain that flights of starlings and sparrows, those pests to millet and panic, are effectually driven away by means of a certain herb, the name of which is unknown to me, being buried at the four corners of the field: it is a wonderful thing to relate, but in such case not a single bird will enter it." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 18. 45


Claudius Preserves the Art of Haruspicy

"[Claudius] next consulted the senate on the question of founding a college of diviners, so that 'the oldest art of Italy should not become extinct through their indolence. Often, in periods of public adversity, they had called in diviners, on whose advice religious ceremonies had been renewed and, for the future, observed with greater correctness; while the Etruscan nobles, voluntarily or at the instance of the Roman senate, had kept up the art and propagated it in certain families. Now that work was done more negligently through the public indifference to all liberal accomplishments, combined with the progress of alien superstitions. For the moment, indeed, all was flourishing; but they must show their gratitude to the favour of Heaven by making sure that the sacred rituals observed in the time of hazard were not forgotten in the day of prosperity.' A senatorial decree was accordingly passed, instructing the pontifices to consider what points in the discipline of the haruspices needed to be maintained or strengthened." ~ P. Cornelius Tacitus, Annales 11.15


AUC 430 / 323 BCE: The Death of Alexander the Great.

"On the eighteenth of the month Daesius (10 Sept. 323 BCE) he slept in the bathing-room because he had a fever. On the following day, after his bath, he removed into his bed-chamber, and spent the day at dice with Medius. Then, when it was late, he took a bath, performed his sacrifices to the Gods, ate a little, and had a fever through the night. On the twentieth, after bathing again, he performed his customary sacrifice; and lying in the bathing-room he devoted himself to Nearchus, listening to his story of his voyage and of the great sea. The twenty-first he spent in the same way and was still more inflamed, and during the night he was in a grievous plight, and all the following day his fever was very high. So he had his bed removed and lay by the side of the great bath, where he conversed with his officers about the vacant posts in the army, and how they might be filled with experienced men. On the twenty-fourth his fever was violent and he had to be carried forth to perform his sacrifices; moreover, he ordered his principal officers to tarry in the court of the palace, and the commanders of divisions and companies to spend the night outside. He was carried to the palace on the other side of the river on the twenty-fifth, and got a little sleep, but his fever did not abate. And when his commanders came to his bedside, he was speechless, as he was also on the twenty-sixth; therefore the Macedonians made up their minds that he was dead, and came with loud shouts to the doors of the palace, and threatened his companions until all opposition was broken down; and when the doors had been thrown open to them, without cloak or armour, one by one, they all filed slowly past his couch. During this day, too, Python and Seleucus were sent to the temple of Serapis to enquire whether they should bring Alexander thither; and the God gave answer that they should leave him where he was. And on the twenty-eighth (20 Sept. 323 BCE), towards evening, he died." ~ Plutarch, Life of Alexander 76


"Such is the account given in the Royal Diary. In addition to this, it states that the soldiers were very desirous of seeing him; some,
in order to see him once more while still alive; others, because there was a report that he was already dead, imagined that his death
was being concealed by the confidential body-guards, as I for my part suppose. Most of them through grief and affection for their king
forced their way in to see him. It is said that when his soldiers passed by him he was unable to speak; yet he greeted each of them
with his right hand, raising his head with difficulty and making a sign with his eyes. The Royal Diary also says that Peithon, Attalus,
Demophon, and Peucestas, as well as Cleomenes, Menidas, and Seleucus, slept in the temple of Serapis, and asked the god whether it would be better and more desirable for Alexander to be carried into his temple, in order as a suppliant to be cured by him. A voice issued from the god saying that he was not to be carried into the temple, but that it would be better for him to remain where was. This answer was reported by the Companions; and soon after Alexander died, as if after all, this were now the better thing. Neither Aristobulus nor Ptolemy has given an account differing much from the preceding. Some authors, however, have related that his Companions asked him to whom he left his kingdom; and that he replied, 'To the best.'" ~ Arrian, Anabasis 7.26


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 70:

"Do nothing in your life that will cause you to fear if it is discovered by your neighbor."


Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus P. Memmio Albucio Consuli diicit

Dixisti:

> Though the time be no more for discussion, I will just remind the following, on your three arguments according which :
> 1/ Hortensia having been maintained in its position by a decretum pontificum, this rule should prevail, according the constitution, on the edictum publishing the sentence ;
> 2/ the sentence did not specify what offices which were concerned ;
> 3/ only the Collegium Pontificum has constitutional jurisdiction over appointing, retaining, or dismissing sacerdotes under its administration.
>

Respondeo:

1/ Correct. Under the Constitution I.B Decreta pontifica hold higher authority than a praetorean or a consular edictum. Your edictum has no authority to overrule the decreta pontifica that appointed her to sacerdotal offices.

2/ Correct, it did not specify which offices, and therefore iudex T. Iulius Sabinus was asked by the Collegium Pontificum and he reported that his decision did not include sacerdotal offices. If you have since tried to persuade him otherwise, it does not matter since at the time of his decision he says it did not apply to her offices as sacerdos Mentis or flamenica Carmentis.

3/ Correct. Under the Constitution VI.B.1 only the Collegium Pontificum may appoint sacerdotes, and therefore only the Collegium Pontificum may dismiss them. Further, under VI.B.1.c the Collegium Pontificum alone has constitutional authority to regulate its internal procedures, including who among its members may vote. Such cannot be overruled by any lex passed in comitia or by any senatus consultus, and certainly not by a lower authority such as a consular edictum.


Dixisti:

> all the sessions of the CP wherein Hortensia sat and vote, since her condemnation , shall be considered as void and with no legal force, in due application of the Iulia sentence ;
>

Respondeo:

Under the Constitution VI.B.1.c only the Collegium Pontificum may regulate its internal procedures. Your attempt to declare otherwise is unconstitutional. You have no constitutional authority to void decisions of the Collegium Pontificum. Only Tribuni Plebis have such authority under certain circumstances.


Dixisti:

> I will accept, acting pro praetore, the petitiones actionis which might be laid against you, for either your refusal applying the Iulia sentence, or obstructing its execution, or both grounds ;
>

Respondeo:

Since I have acted in accordance with the Constitution, exercising my legal rights and the legal rights of our Collegia and their sacerdotes, and since I have done so in accordance of my legal duties as Pontifex Maximus and as Magister Collegii Augurum, any petitio actionis in these matters must be excluded under the Lex Salicia poenalis 6.1.2 & 3 and if you instead accepted, in violation of the law, I shall therefore call upon your colleague's intercession and that of the Tribuni Plebis.

Dixisti:

> every similar refusal to apply this judicial sentence, or to obstruct it, will be considered as an intentional will to oppose and obstruct the normal working of our Republican institutions ;
>

Respondeo:

On the contrary, your attempts to impose a praetorial edictum over decreta pontifica violate our Constitution, our laws, and the institutions of our Res Publica. You have attempted to usurp authority you do not hold under our laws or by precedents set earlier in Nova Roma. Your actions led to the determination of the Colegium Pontificum that you have acted impie prudens dolo malo, a determination that was later confirmed by the Collegium Pontificum, and for which any Citizen may file a petitio actionis upon your leaving office.


Dixisti:

> independently of the complex situation created by the last session on the appointment of a PM pro tempore, I will not officially consider you, as far as I am concerned in the exercise of my duties, as any longer able to be the legitimate representative of the Collegia Pontificum and Augurum and their voice in the daily life of the Republic ;
>

Respondeo:

The determinations of the Collegium Pontificum were made by the Collegium as a whole. The determinations of the Collegium Augurum were made by the Collegium as a whole. You have been declared impie prudens dolo malo twice by the Collegium Pontificum and once by the Collegium Augurum because you already do not recognize the authority of our Collegia placed over your actions by the Constitution. That you now declare your obstinance openly and publicly is no revelation.

Being that you have been determined by both Collegia as impie prudens dolo malo, have not performed piacula for your offenses, and have not undergone purification, you do not hold auctoritas, you may not call the Senate, any comitia, or any tribunal to assemble. Auctoritas extends from the Gods, and having turned your back to the Gods, you can nolonger claim to hold authority under Them. You may not enter into any templum lest by your presence you would pollute it. Therefore you may not enter the Senate, a comitia where a vote is to be held, or any other templum. No resolutions by the Senate or a comitia or a tribunal shall be recognized if you are present, if you attempt to vote, or if you so much as speak within a templum, as any such resolutions would not have the required approval of the Gods.

In accordance with the mos maiorum of Roma antiqua, you ought to resign from office.


Dixisti:

> I will not take in account any decision issued by both religious colleges as long as they have not:
>
> officially and clearly recognized and accepted to respect the Caecilius vs. Hortensia sentence and every judicial sentence legally held,
>

Respondeo:

The tribunal was not legally held. Did you ask for auspices before holding the tribunal? Since it is a form of comitia and ought to be held in a templum, auspices were required as in past tribunals. Also, precedent was set earlier that consules do not have authority to hold tribunals. Further, the law provides that when a praetor is unavailable or unwilling to accept a claim then the actor must wait until a praetor is installed who will accept his claim. You usurped unprecedented authority, so i question whether the tribunal was legal at all. Then is was questionable whether a single iudex should be called. Further, your instructions to that single iudex violated the Leges Saliciae.

The sentence determined by the iudex, on his own testimony before the Collegium Pontificum, was that it did not apply to any sacerdotal offices but only to magisterial offices. Such a determination is in accordance with the Constitution. It is that determination that is recognized and accepted by the Collegium Pontificum, and not your erroneous interpretation.


Dixisti:

> reorganized them so that they be conform to the composition of the Colleges set by the Constitution and with all its own internal rules,
>

Respondeo:

The Collegia conform to the Constituion. It is you, Consuli, who does not. You have no authority to demand the Collegia be reorganized. You have no authority over their internal rules.


Dixisti:

> have appointed a new PM and a new Magister augurum who will look for dialogue and not conduct a systematic obstruction.
>

Respondeo:

Are you trying to dictate to the Collegia who are to be recognized as their members? Are you claiming some dictatorial authority to determine who should be removed from sacerdotal offices, whether you want to remove a flamenica or a pontifex maximus? Tell me, Consuli, under what provision of the Constitution do you assert such authority over the Collegia?


Throughout this entire year you have attempted to usurp authority in violation of the Constitution and the laws of Nova Roma. You have attempted to defy the Gods and have thus brought Nova Roma to the verge of dissolution. You are a failure as a consul. Your term ends on 1 January.

Vade in pace Deorum.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
>
> M. Moravio Piscino s.d.
>
>
> I am coming back to you as announced in my recent answer, in the Senatorial Senaculum, to the insults you thought necessary to address me there. You will find below the position that I have postponed, counting on your good will to help us consuls assisting Nova Roma solving Its difficulties "through the top".
>
>
> Last Aug. 18, I reminded to you that the fact allowing M. Hortensia Maior to keep a religious office was a violation of the judicial sentence given by iudex Sabinus' tribunal pridie idus Quintiles, for this sentence, with no ambiguity had inflicted to her "an inhabilitatio to hold or to be candidate for any Nova Roman magistracy or office until Kal. Ian. 2764 a.U.c." and did not thus "make any difference among the various offices" (my letter of Aug. 21, NRAnnounce #2110).
>
>
> The same day, you answered to me that you had no intention helping me having this sentence applied, affirming that "Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum."
>
>
> Hortensia has been informed the same day, and did not show the slightest will to take in consideration the pronounced sentence.
>
>
> I have left to you, as a sign of good will, and while you had used your influence in and on the Collegium Pontificum to bring it to issue against me a decision of "impietas", more than three weeks to let time enough to well understand the sentence and to change your mind.
>
>
> As you have not taken profit of this time, I can but issue again my statement: M. Hortensia Maior remained since last pridie idus Quint. in a Nova Roma public office and willingly violated the judicial sentence pronounced this day ; by opposing the sentence and assessing your intent to, you have committed the shared the same violation.
>
>
> Though the time be no more for discussion, I will just remind the following, on your three arguments according which :
> 1/ Hortensia having been maintained in its position by a decretum pontificum, this rule should prevail, according the constitution, on the edictum publishing the sentence ;
> 2/ the sentence did not specify what offices which were concerned ;
> 3/ only the Collegium Pontificum has constitutional jurisdiction over appointing, retaining, or dismissing sacerdotes under its administration.
>
>
> The second argument is at the limit of bad faith: when a sentence is general and does not enter details, it must be interpreted as such, according all the general and legal principles of interpretation.
>
>
> On the first argument, you cannot argue seriously that the form of the sentence – an edictum – would lower the judicial sentence and deprive it of any execution. If we were to adopt your argumentation, no judicial sentence might create rights and duties, the Hortensia's one or others ones. This would mean that a judicial sentence, published by a curule magistrate might be canceled at any time by this magistrate. Such reasoning deprives our judicial system of its whole meaning and efficiency and cannot thus be accepted.
>
>
> On the third argument, if the CP keeps his full disciplinary rights to rule its daily life, it cannot seriously pretend to escape a judicial sentence given on behalf of the Republic, and a fortiori here by one of our most respected citizens. Again, Moravi, there is not two different Nova Romas: one for the religious colleges, where "optimates" would be safe from the application and execution of the ordinary laws of our Republic, and the other Nova Roma, where the citizens would assume their obligations.
>
>
> Last you under-evaluated a point: though I have been patient enough to let you repeating your argumentation, this point of view, respectable as an individual's one, cannot be opposed in the working of our institutions, to the interpretation given, with the agreement of the Tribunal, by the consul maior who has in addition assumed the responsibility, pro praetoribus, of the public action in the concerned trial.
>
>
>
>
> I have let you, as a sign of good will and respect of the charge of Pontifex Maximus you assumed, a 2 months period of impunity in order that you listen my calls and come back to a Republican application of our Law. M. Hortensia Maior's recent resignation does not erase the own violation that you, personally, and in full knowledge, committed.
>
>
> It is time for me, even if I cannot but regret that your obstinacy did not allow you to hear the voice of reason and Law and thus avoid a new wound for our institutions, to close this period of impunity and therefore inform you, that :
>
>
>
>
> all the sessions of the CP wherein Hortensia sat and vote, since her condemnation , shall be considered as void and with no legal force, in due application of the Iulia sentence ;
>
> I will accept, acting pro praetore, the petitiones actionis which might be laid against you, for either your refusal applying the Iulia sentence, or obstructing its execution, or both grounds ;
>
> every similar refusal to apply this judicial sentence, or to obstruct it, will be considered as an intentional will to oppose and obstruct the normal working of our Republican institutions ;
>
> independently of the complex situation created by the last session on the appointment of a PM pro tempore, I will not officially consider you, as far as I am concerned in the exercise of my duties, as any longer able to be the legitimate representative of the Collegia Pontificum and Augurum and their voice in the daily life of the Republic ;
>
> I will not take in account any decision issued by both religious colleges as long as they have not:
>
>
> officially and clearly recognized and accepted to respect the Caecilius vs. Hortensia sentence and every judicial sentence legally held,
>
> reorganized them so that they be conform to the composition of the Colleges set by the Constitution and with all its own internal rules,
>
> have appointed a new PM and a new Magister augurum who will look for dialogue and not conduct a systematic obstruction.
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> consul, ag. p. pr.
> datum Lutetiae pr. Id. Sept. 2763 auc
>
> _________________________________________________________
>
>
> 19/8 16:20 rory12001@...,
> cc.: Marcus Moravius Horatius Piscinus, Iulius Sabinus,
>
>
> Hortensiae Praetoriae s.d.
>
> You will find below the correspondence between the Pontifex Maximus and me, as consul, with a copy to former Iudex Sabinus censor.
>
> I thought necessary that you be aware of it, for you are concerned.
>
> If ever you, in the interval of time, decided, with a stated day, to give up your religious office in order to compel to the judicial sentence given by Iudex Iulius, please inform me asap.
>
> If you decided to stay in your position and were still in it on next Monday, I will inform you of the measures that I would be obliged to take in order that the sentence which condemned you be fully respected and this new violation sanctioned.
>
> Thanks and vale,
>
>
> Albucius cos.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thursday, August 19, 2010, 02:02 PM
>
>
> Salve Pontifice Maxime, and salve Censor,
>
>
> I thank you for your immediate answer, Moravi, though I am deceived by it. Deceived but not surprised, for your position seems to be coherent with the reading of Nova Roma and of Rome that you have defended during the last years.
>
>
> I will not discuss it about here, for I think that, even if our History of Rome is a common one, your reading of Rome and mine cannot get conciliated and that, at least in your view imo, you use this reading as a tool to back up your position and conception of how a Roman State, or at least Nova Roma should work.
>
>
> I will just pick up your argument, often used by non-French contradictors towards French ones, the fact that a Roman Republic is not a French modern one wherein cults and State are strictly separated. You will note that this is exactly my position as consul in the application of the judicial sentence given by Iudex Iulius : as the term "office" has not been defined restrictively, and *as we know no separation between Religion and Civil fields in our Constitutive powers*, there is no way escaping to this simple truth that an office is an office, and that you are not authorized to interpret, as pontifex, this sentence as you prefer, according your own convictions and your political analysis and interests.
>
>
> I will not reminded here that I have several times proposed to you, as current Representative as the whole Collegia, to work with both consuls in order to amend our laws and decreta so that they be in conformity with the Constitution and with the traditional right or the curule magistrates to take their auspices and be assisted, according their wish, by religious "technicians". Your refusal of such work is also logical in the frame of your own positions and conceptions.
>
>
> As Censor Sabinus has already underlined it, I cannot but state, with no pleasure, that you grant our judicial system a very relative place, according the fact that you are actor of a trial (Cincinnatus case) or are requested to apply the sentence (here).
>
>
> As you said yourself below, you will not be surprised that I draw the consequences of your position which is that "Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum" and that as Pontifex Maximus you refuse to give your assistance to the application of a judicial sentence legally pronounced, and that you publicly declare that you oppose to it.
>
>
>
>
> Vale Pontifex Maxime,
>
>
>
>
> Albucius cos.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Thursday, August 19, 2010, 12:20 AM
> (..)
>
>
> Even if I am a pontifex and a representative of the Roman Religion, I am not a fan of the immixture between religion and magisterial duties in the way are happen these days in NR. For me, a consul represents one of our supreme authorities. Consul has imperium and imperium is granted by the Gods. What a consul wants to do with his imperium is his responsibility but we, the rest, must take it in consideration.
>
>
> With another words, I let that issue in the consul hands in order to respect his position.
> (..)
> Valete,
> Sabinus
>
>
>
>
>
> Thursday, August 19, 2010, 4:01 AM
>
>
> M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus P. Memmio Albucio s. p. d.
>
>
> At most the sentence from a tribunal is issued as a magisterial edictum. Flamenica M. Hortensia was appointed by decreta of the Collegium Pontificum to two offices, as Sacerdos Mentis and later as Flamenica Carmentis. Under the Constitution I.B on Legal precedence. "This Constitution shall be the highest legal authority within Nova Roma, apart from edicts issued by a legally appointed dictator. It shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima, laws properly voted and passed by one of the comitia, decreta passed by the collegium pontificum, decreta passed by the collegium augurum, Senatus consulta, and magisterial edicta (in order of descending authority as described in section IV of this Constitution), in that order. Should a lower authority conflict with a higher authority, the higher authority shall take precedence.
>
>
> You do not have authority to issue any edictum that conflicts with previous decreta pontifica. Ergo, your interpretation is in error of the Constitution states. The sentence of the tribunal, issued as an edictum, cannot conflict with the decreta pontifica that appointed M. Hortensia to her sacerdotal offices, and therefore the sentence does not apply to her sacerdotal offices.
>
>
> Further, as you say, the sentence did not specify what offices, and in the absence of any specification it cannot be taken that the sentence in anyway referred to M. Hortensia's sacerdotal offices. In fact the iudex in the case has already informed the Collegium Pontificum that he did not regard his sentence as applying to any of her sacerdotal offices.
>
>
> Furthermore, by the Decretum pontificum de sacerdotibus and earlier decreta pontifica, the Collegium Pontificum has already specified that under the Constitution VI.B.1 only the Collegium Pontificum has constitutional jurisdiction over appointing, retaining, or dismissing sacerdotes under its administration. You have no authority as a consul, or acting praetor, in this matter to dictate anything to the Collegium. Flamenica M. Hortensia is and shall remain a sacerdos and flamenica under the sole authority of the Collegium Pontificum.
>
>
> Vade in pace Deorum
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010, 6:20 PM
>
> Pontifico Maximo s.d.
>
>
> If I am not wrong, M. Hortensia Maior still holds a religious office.
>
>
> You sure remember that the sentence given last pridie Idus Quintiles by Iudex Iulius Sabinus says that his Tribunal "CONDEMN[s] M. Hortensia Maior and INFLICT to her an inhabilitatio to hold or to be candidate for any Nova Roman magistracy or office until Kal. Ian. 2764 a.U.c."
>
>
> It is not useful, I think, reminding to you that, as the sentence did not specified which possible kind of offices or magistracies might be concerned, this sentence must therefore and naturally be understood as concerning both civil and religious offices and magistracies.
>
>
> It is not necessary, furthermore, reminding that the individual opinion we may have on such case, as on every judicial case judged in Nova Roma, has no importance.
>
>
> So, if Hortensia were to be still in office, she would be in violation of the Iulian sentence, and of our laws. As I did not wish that some misdunderstanding of the sentence may prevent you to bring your support to the application of the sentence and to be yourself reproached to help the condemned civis to escape her penalty, I preferred issuing the present official information.
>
>
> I therefore request you to bring your support, as Pontifex Maximus, to the application of the judicial sentence "Caecilius vs. Hortensia", to inform the Collegium of my communication and to confirm to me, before next a.d. XI Kal. Septembres (Su. 22 Aug.) Rome time:
> - whether or not Hortensia still holds at the current time a religious office, and which one ;
> - the measures that you took to apply, as Pontifex Maximus, the judicial sentence.
>
>
> Vale Pontifex Maxime,
>
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius consul
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lentulus C. Octavio sal.

That's the spirit, C. Octavi Prisce!

LONG LIVE NOVA ROMA, OUR NATION, OUR REPUBLIC!


Vale!


--- Sab 18/9/10, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...> ha scritto:







 









Salve Caeca,



Well said fellow civis, if I may call you that, being so new myself; this is the

mantra we need to adopt most fervently! There seems to be so much pessimism as

of late, if I have read the archives correctly, and this must be overcome!



May ALL those whose wish a brighter future for Nova Roma rise up NOW and commit

themselves to working towards THAT end!



I may be new here, but I can sense the desire of those many souls here, who wish

that this great experiment succeed.



Trust me, MY FRIENDS, IT WILL, have no doubt, be strong, we will prevail!



Vale,



Gaius Octavius Priscus



________________________________

From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:34:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo



Salve prisce, et salvete omnes,



If you can keep that attitude, and I see no reason why you cannot, you will

build a realistic, balanced picture of what, and who, we are ...and, more to the

point, you will be able to take your place here, as an active, contributing

cives, and help to make a difference, for good. We are often contentious always

highly opinionated, and occasionally most uncivil ...but we are also passionate,

fiercely dedicated, and we tend to form close and enduring friendships. As

frustrating as NR can be (and oh, it *can* be), it is a good place to be, and is

also a place which will challenge, delight and fascinate those who are willing

to invest their time, energy, and effort. Be warned though (smile) this place

gets into your genes or something ...and even many who leave either end up

coming back, or find that they can't quite cut all ties. I know ...I tried

...and wandered back, at which point, I realized that since I couldn't leave

...I'd stay and contribute what little I can to what has become my Res Publica.



vale et valete bene,

C. Maria Caeca (who almost got herself into trouble with the Praetora by

omitting the closing, oops!)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,



DITTO!



Valete,

L. Aemilia Mamerca



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo





Lentulus C. Octavio sal.

That's the spirit, C. Octavi Prisce!

LONG LIVE NOVA ROMA, OUR NATION, OUR REPUBLIC!

Vale!

--- Sab 18/9/10, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...
<mailto:jeancourdant%40yahoo.com> > ha scritto:



Salve Caeca,

Well said fellow civis, if I may call you that, being so new myself; this is
the

mantra we need to adopt most fervently! There seems to be so much pessimism
as

of late, if I have read the archives correctly, and this must be overcome!

May ALL those whose wish a brighter future for Nova Roma rise up NOW and
commit

themselves to working towards THAT end!

I may be new here, but I can sense the desire of those many souls here, who
wish

that this great experiment succeed.

Trust me, MY FRIENDS, IT WILL, have no doubt, be strong, we will prevail!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

________________________________

From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...
<mailto:c.mariacaeca%40gmail.com> >

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:34:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo

Salve prisce, et salvete omnes,

If you can keep that attitude, and I see no reason why you cannot, you will

build a realistic, balanced picture of what, and who, we are ...and, more to
the

point, you will be able to take your place here, as an active, contributing

cives, and help to make a difference, for good. We are often contentious
always

highly opinionated, and occasionally most uncivil ...but we are also
passionate,

fiercely dedicated, and we tend to form close and enduring friendships. As

frustrating as NR can be (and oh, it *can* be), it is a good place to be,
and is

also a place which will challenge, delight and fascinate those who are
willing

to invest their time, energy, and effort. Be warned though (smile) this
place

gets into your genes or something ...and even many who leave either end up

coming back, or find that they can't quite cut all ties. I know ...I tried

...and wandered back, at which point, I realized that since I couldn't leave


...I'd stay and contribute what little I can to what has become my Res
Publica.

vale et valete bene,

C. Maria Caeca (who almost got herself into trouble with the Praetora by

omitting the closing, oops!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Piscino sal.

Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it, nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.

Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.

Vale,

Cato

Cn. Lentulus pontifex omnibus Quiritibus sal.


I think C. Cato is right in his interpretation of the law. A sentence of a court may not be interfered
with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. Only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.

My only addition to what C. Cato says is that senatorial status is not an office, at all. It's a status, a rank in the society. Roman senatores are not like American senators. Senatorial status is much more like a modern doctorate. There is a similar difference between public state priesthoods and political state offices: while Roman priesthoods are by all means public positions, they are also official responsibilities, but the consulship and a flaminate are not the same way public offices.

My position is that only the magistrate presiding over the trial can decide the interpretation of the words "public office". It *can* refer to magistracies, it *might* refer to priesthoods, but it can under *no* circumstance refer to senatorial status.





--- Lun 20/9/10, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:








 









Cato Piscino sal.



Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it, nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.



Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.



Vale,



Cato

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mamerca!

Let us all stand strong and be not dissuaded from the dream!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: Lyn <ldowling@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 1:53:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo


Salvete omnes,

DITTO!

Valete,

L. Aemilia Mamerca

_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:50 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo

Lentulus C. Octavio sal.

That's the spirit, C. Octavi Prisce!

LONG LIVE NOVA ROMA, OUR NATION, OUR REPUBLIC!

Vale!

--- Sab 18/9/10, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...
<mailto:jeancourdant%40yahoo.com> > ha scritto:

Salve Caeca,

Well said fellow civis, if I may call you that, being so new myself; this is
the

mantra we need to adopt most fervently! There seems to be so much pessimism
as

of late, if I have read the archives correctly, and this must be overcome!

May ALL those whose wish a brighter future for Nova Roma rise up NOW and
commit

themselves to working towards THAT end!

I may be new here, but I can sense the desire of those many souls here, who
wish

that this great experiment succeed.

Trust me, MY FRIENDS, IT WILL, have no doubt, be strong, we will prevail!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

________________________________

From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...
<mailto:c.mariacaeca%40gmail.com> >

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:34:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo

Salve prisce, et salvete omnes,

If you can keep that attitude, and I see no reason why you cannot, you will

build a realistic, balanced picture of what, and who, we are ...and, more to
the

point, you will be able to take your place here, as an active, contributing

cives, and help to make a difference, for good. We are often contentious
always

highly opinionated, and occasionally most uncivil ...but we are also
passionate,

fiercely dedicated, and we tend to form close and enduring friendships. As

frustrating as NR can be (and oh, it *can* be), it is a good place to be,
and is

also a place which will challenge, delight and fascinate those who are
willing

to invest their time, energy, and effort. Be warned though (smile) this
place

gets into your genes or something ...and even many who leave either end up

coming back, or find that they can't quite cut all ties. I know ...I tried

...and wandered back, at which point, I realized that since I couldn't leave

...I'd stay and contribute what little I can to what has become my Res
Publica.

vale et valete bene,

C. Maria Caeca (who almost got herself into trouble with the Praetora by

omitting the closing, oops!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Lentule!

Vive Roma!

Gaius Octavius Priscus





________________________________
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 1:49:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo


Lentulus C. Octavio sal.

That's the spirit, C. Octavi Prisce!

LONG LIVE NOVA ROMA, OUR NATION, OUR REPUBLIC!

Vale!

--- Sab 18/9/10, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...> ha scritto:



Salve Caeca,

Well said fellow civis, if I may call you that, being so new myself; this is the


mantra we need to adopt most fervently! There seems to be so much pessimism as

of late, if I have read the archives correctly, and this must be overcome!

May ALL those whose wish a brighter future for Nova Roma rise up NOW and commit

themselves to working towards THAT end!

I may be new here, but I can sense the desire of those many souls here, who wish


that this great experiment succeed.

Trust me, MY FRIENDS, IT WILL, have no doubt, be strong, we will prevail!

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus

________________________________

From: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, September 17, 2010 9:34:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Novus Homo

Salve prisce, et salvete omnes,

If you can keep that attitude, and I see no reason why you cannot, you will

build a realistic, balanced picture of what, and who, we are ...and, more to the


point, you will be able to take your place here, as an active, contributing

cives, and help to make a difference, for good. We are often contentious always

highly opinionated, and occasionally most uncivil ...but we are also passionate,


fiercely dedicated, and we tend to form close and enduring friendships. As

frustrating as NR can be (and oh, it *can* be), it is a good place to be, and is


also a place which will challenge, delight and fascinate those who are willing

to invest their time, energy, and effort. Be warned though (smile) this place

gets into your genes or something ...and even many who leave either end up

coming back, or find that they can't quite cut all ties. I know ...I tried

...and wandered back, at which point, I realized that since I couldn't leave

...I'd stay and contribute what little I can to what has become my Res Publica.

vale et valete bene,

C. Maria Caeca (who almost got herself into trouble with the Praetora by

omitting the closing, oops!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Lentulus, your view of senatorial status is incorrect.

Section VI A of the constitution states:

All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State,....

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex omnibus Quiritibus sal.
>
> I think C. Cato is right in his interpretation of the law. A sentence of a
> court may not be interfered
> with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. Only a lex
> passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
>
> My only addition to what C. Cato says is that senatorial status is not an
> office, at all. It's a status, a rank in the society. Roman senatores are
> not like American senators. Senatorial status is much more like a modern
> doctorate. There is a similar difference between public state priesthoods
> and political state offices: while Roman priesthoods are by all means public
> positions, they are also official responsibilities, but the consulship and a
> flaminate are not the same way public offices.
>
> My position is that only the magistrate presiding over the trial can decide
> the interpretation of the words "public office". It *can* refer to
> magistracies, it *might* refer to priesthoods, but it can under *no*
> circumstance refer to senatorial status.
>
> --- Lun 20/9/10, Cato <catoinnyc@... <catoinnyc%40gmail.com>> ha
> scritto:
>
>
>
>
> Cato Piscino sal.
>
> Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be
> interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No
> pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it,
> nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
>
> Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public
> offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public
> office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public
> office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to
> throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may
> conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Sulla,

I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution which states
that:

All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to
publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that
made Rome great.

and the issue of senatorial status.

Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?

You referred to section VI A correct?

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 4:54:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
application of Hortensia's sentence

Ave!

Lentulus, your view of senatorial status is incorrect.

Section VI A of the constitution states:

All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State,....

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex omnibus Quiritibus sal.
>
> I think C. Cato is right in his interpretation of the law. A sentence of a
> court may not be interfered
> with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. Only a lex
> passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
>
> My only addition to what C. Cato says is that senatorial status is not an
> office, at all. It's a status, a rank in the society. Roman senatores are
> not like American senators. Senatorial status is much more like a modern
> doctorate. There is a similar difference between public state priesthoods
> and political state offices: while Roman priesthoods are by all means public
> positions, they are also official responsibilities, but the consulship and a
> flaminate are not the same way public offices.
>
> My position is that only the magistrate presiding over the trial can decide
> the interpretation of the words "public office". It *can* refer to
> magistracies, it *might* refer to priesthoods, but it can under *no*
> circumstance refer to senatorial status.
>
> --- Lun 20/9/10, Cato <catoinnyc@... <catoinnyc%40gmail.com>> ha
> scritto:
>
>
>
>
> Cato Piscino sal.
>
> Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be
> interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No
> pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it,
> nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
>
> Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public
> offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public
> office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public
> office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to
> throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may
> conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

I am Showing how the constitution itself identifies senators as officers. This directly contradicts lentulus's opinion where he believed that senators as a status (we don't). Holding the position as a senator, per the constitution of nova Roma is an office of the state. Therefore the guilty verdict in maior's trial would have removed her from the position.

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...> wrote:

> Salve Sulla,
>
> I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution which states
> that:
>
> All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to
> publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that
> made Rome great.
>
> and the issue of senatorial status.
>
> Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
>
> You referred to section VI A correct?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 4:54:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
> application of Hortensia's sentence
>
> Ave!
>
> Lentulus, your view of senatorial status is incorrect.
>
> Section VI A of the constitution states:
>
> All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State,....
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
> cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus pontifex omnibus Quiritibus sal.
> >
> > I think C. Cato is right in his interpretation of the law. A sentence of a
> > court may not be interfered
> > with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. Only a lex
> > passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
> >
> > My only addition to what C. Cato says is that senatorial status is not an
> > office, at all. It's a status, a rank in the society. Roman senatores are
> > not like American senators. Senatorial status is much more like a modern
> > doctorate. There is a similar difference between public state priesthoods
> > and political state offices: while Roman priesthoods are by all means public
> > positions, they are also official responsibilities, but the consulship and a
> > flaminate are not the same way public offices.
> >
> > My position is that only the magistrate presiding over the trial can decide
> > the interpretation of the words "public office". It *can* refer to
> > magistracies, it *might* refer to priesthoods, but it can under *no*
> > circumstance refer to senatorial status.
> >
> > --- Lun 20/9/10, Cato <catoinnyc@... <catoinnyc%40gmail.com>> ha
> > scritto:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Piscino sal.
> >
> > Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be
> > interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No
> > pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it,
> > nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
> >
> > Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public
> > offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public
> > office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public
> > office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to
> > throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may
> > conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave G Ocatvius;

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:34 PM, G Octavius Priscus scripsit:

>
> Salve Sulla,
>
> I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution
> which states that:
>
> All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required
> to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and
> Goddesses that made Rome great.
>
> and the issue of senatorial status.
>
> Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
>
> You referred to section VI A correct?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>

If i amy, from the perspective of someone who has been around awhile,
and watches the by-play, mostly from afar?

The point was raised that a seat in the Senate is not "holding an
office, " per se.

Sulla has quoted a passage in the Nova Roma Constitution, which does
refer to Senators as officers. Admittedly as officers of State,
rather than government, but officers nonetheless.

If we are to take this at face value, then a sentence barring one from
holding office would extend to one's seat in the Curia, as well as
other positions, which are touted as offices of one sort or another.

In example, if I were under a similar sentence, I should stop being
both a Lictor and Dominus Sodalis.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
Lictor, Patrician, Paterfamilias
Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta
(Folkbuilder Asatru Folk Assembly IL & WI)

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occassional updates)
http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
http://confoederatio-romana.webs.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.

Salve Sulla,

I understand your import now; it's ironic however that this definition only
appears in this section of the constitution.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus







________________________________
From: Robert <robert.woolwine@...>
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 8:46:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
application of Hortensia's sentence


Ave,

I am Showing how the constitution itself identifies senators as officers. This
directly contradicts lentulus's opinion where he believed that senators as a
status (we don't). Holding the position as a senator, per the constitution of
nova Roma is an office of the state. Therefore the guilty verdict in maior's
trial would have removed her from the position.

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...> wrote:

> Salve Sulla,
>
> I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution which
>states
>
> that:
>
> All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to
>
> publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that
> made Rome great.
>
> and the issue of senatorial status.
>
> Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
>
> You referred to section VI A correct?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 4:54:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
> application of Hortensia's sentence
>
> Ave!
>
> Lentulus, your view of senatorial status is incorrect.
>
> Section VI A of the constitution states:
>
> All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State,....
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
> cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus pontifex omnibus Quiritibus sal.
> >
> > I think C. Cato is right in his interpretation of the law. A sentence of a
> > court may not be interfered
> > with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. Only a lex
> > passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
> >
> > My only addition to what C. Cato says is that senatorial status is not an
> > office, at all. It's a status, a rank in the society. Roman senatores are
> > not like American senators. Senatorial status is much more like a modern
> > doctorate. There is a similar difference between public state priesthoods
> > and political state offices: while Roman priesthoods are by all means public
> > positions, they are also official responsibilities, but the consulship and a
> > flaminate are not the same way public offices.
> >
> > My position is that only the magistrate presiding over the trial can decide
> > the interpretation of the words "public office". It *can* refer to
> > magistracies, it *might* refer to priesthoods, but it can under *no*
> > circumstance refer to senatorial status.
> >
> > --- Lun 20/9/10, Cato <catoinnyc@... <catoinnyc%40gmail.com>> ha
> > scritto:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Piscino sal.
> >
> > Under our law the sentence of a iudex of a Nova Roman court may not be
> > interfered with by any power except a comitia passing a lex regarding it. No
> > pontifical decretum can obstruct it, no magisterial edictum can halt it,
> > nothing; only a lex passed in comitia can repeal a court sentence.
> >
> > Since religious offices refer to themselves in their own decreta as "public
> > offices", and being a member of the Senate is referred to as a "public
> > office", any sentence which bars a citizen from holding or seeking "public
> > office" must by definition include these offices. Again, you can try to
> > throw up dust to cloud the issue but the sentence stands; perhaps this may
> > conflict with what you would like, but this is absolutely unequivocal.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Stephane,

Yes, I understand what Sulla is trying to say, but I wonder if that definition
is appropriate given that is it not found in section V at all, or anywhere else
in the constitution outside of section VI.


If the content say of section III clearly would not be meant to define substance
in section IV, and IV is not meant to define section V, and V not VI, then why
should content put forth in section VI pertaining to public religious
institutions be used to defined what it means to be a senator?

Again, I understand the reach, but I wonder if the reach, is appropriate.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 8:50:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
application of Hortensia's sentence


Ave G Ocatvius;

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:34 PM, G Octavius Priscus scripsit:

>
> Salve Sulla,
>
> I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution
> which states that:
>
> All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required
> to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and
> Goddesses that made Rome great.
>
> and the issue of senatorial status.
>
> Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
>
> You referred to section VI A correct?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>

If i amy, from the perspective of someone who has been around awhile,
and watches the by-play, mostly from afar?

The point was raised that a seat in the Senate is not "holding an
office, " per se.

Sulla has quoted a passage in the Nova Roma Constitution, which does
refer to Senators as officers. Admittedly as officers of State,
rather than government, but officers nonetheless.

If we are to take this at face value, then a sentence barring one from
holding office would extend to one's seat in the Curia, as well as
other positions, which are touted as offices of one sort or another.

In example, if I were under a similar sentence, I should stop being
both a Lictor and Dominus Sodalis.

=====================================
In amicitia et fide
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
Lictor, Patrician, Paterfamilias
Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta
(Folkbuilder Asatru Folk Assembly IL & WI)

Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occassional updates)
http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
http://confoederatio-romana.webs.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
--
May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Well let's put it this way. Here you have a section in the Constitution
that identifies Senators as officers. Where in the constitution do you have
an identification that Senators are a status ie not officers?

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Stephane,
>
> Yes, I understand what Sulla is trying to say, but I wonder if that
> definition
> is appropriate given that is it not found in section V at all, or anywhere
> else
> in the constitution outside of section VI.
>
> If the content say of section III clearly would not be meant to define
> substance
> in section IV, and IV is not meant to define section V, and V not VI, then
> why
> should content put forth in section VI pertaining to public religious
> institutions be used to defined what it means to be a senator?
>
> Again, I understand the reach, but I wonder if the reach, is appropriate.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> ________________________________
> From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...<famila.ulleria.venii%40gmail.com>
> >
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 8:50:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
> application of Hortensia's sentence
>
> Ave G Ocatvius;
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:34 PM, G Octavius Priscus scripsit:
> >
> > Salve Sulla,
> >
> > I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution
> > which states that:
> >
> > All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be
> required
> > to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and
> > Goddesses that made Rome great.
> >
> > and the issue of senatorial status.
> >
> > Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
> >
> > You referred to section VI A correct?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
>
> If i amy, from the perspective of someone who has been around awhile,
> and watches the by-play, mostly from afar?
>
> The point was raised that a seat in the Senate is not "holding an
> office, " per se.
>
> Sulla has quoted a passage in the Nova Roma Constitution, which does
> refer to Senators as officers. Admittedly as officers of State,
> rather than government, but officers nonetheless.
>
> If we are to take this at face value, then a sentence barring one from
> holding office would extend to one's seat in the Curia, as well as
> other positions, which are touted as offices of one sort or another.
>
> In example, if I were under a similar sentence, I should stop being
> both a Lictor and Dominus Sodalis.
>
> =====================================
> In amicitia et fide
> Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
> Lictor, Patrician, Paterfamilias
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta
> (Folkbuilder Asatru Folk Assembly IL & WI)
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
>
> (sites subject to occassional updates)
> http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> http://confoederatio-romana.webs.com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca omnibus in foro S. P. D.

While I understand L. Cornelius Sulla Felix Senator's point in quoting the paragraph below, I had always read that more as a way of indicating that all those who serve the State, whether as Magistrate of Senator must show respect for the gods of Rome, and give them honor ...and did not see it as a definition as to who were considered officers of the State. Still, I can see the case for that definition, as demonstrated here.

I don't think we can make an exact analogy between the Senate of Roma Antiqua and ours, because, while the structure might be similar, and while the members are appointed from the highest officials and most prominent citizens in our Res Publica, their functions are a bit different, most particularly in one aspect.

Our Senate serves as the Senate of our Republic, but, equally, as the board of directors of Nova Roma, inc., (which could be said to parallel, in some ways) the function of the ancient Curia to conduct foreign policy). And no ...I am *NOT* saying that I consider the Government of the United States or the State of Maine, foreign powers!), but, it is the BoD that is the bridge between what we do internally, and what we do, and are required to do, externally. This complicates thing a bit, I think, because, looked at from that perspective, it might be extremely disadvantageous to have a person who has been censured by the community for acts against that community, as part of a board of directors, and, so I can understand why someone so adjudged should be required to either resign a Senate seat ...or be temporarily removed.

All magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be required to
publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and Goddesses that
made Rome great.

Respectfully,
Valete bene,
C. Maria Caeca


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

byzandroid@... sent you a link to the following content:

Oh my gods, Rome is burning (again)
http://judithweingarten.blogspot.com/2010/09/oh-my-gods-rome-is-burning-again.html

The sender also included this note:

Salve, I thought everyone might like to see this. Vale, Quintus Servilius
Priscus

--
Sent via a FeedFlare link from a FeedBurner feed.
http://www.google.com/support/feedburner/bin/answer.py?answer=78966&topic=13246

Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Cn Lentulo Quiritibusque salutem.

A number of individuals have already demonstrated one part of the lex
constitutiua defining that senatores are officers; there is, however,
something that hasn't yet been stated to that same end. There is the
all-too-frequently forgotten or outright ignored fact that Nova Roma is
an incorporated entity. Under a litany of laws of the United States,
directors of a corporation (i.e., in our case, Senators) are in a
position to be held liable for the actions of the corporation. While
not executives of the corporation (e.g., presidents or vice-presidents),
which are in common parlance referred to as officers, they are, as a
point of law, officers. As an entity incorporated under the
jurisdiction of the United States, that is something we cannot
supersede; it is holding an office to be a senator.

This, of course, entirely neglects Paragraph II.B.6 of the Lex Vedia
Centuriata as amended by the Lex Fabia Centuriata, which clearly lists
being a senator as a position, something which must be held.

Ut ualeatis, cura.

Salve Sulla,

I do agree with you there. The term status appears primarily in section II
referring to citizens and gentes.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus





________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 9:48:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
application of Hortensia's sentence

Ave!

Well let's put it this way. Here you have a section in the Constitution
that identifies Senators as officers. Where in the constitution do you have
an identification that Senators are a status ie not officers?

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Stephane,
>
> Yes, I understand what Sulla is trying to say, but I wonder if that
> definition
> is appropriate given that is it not found in section V at all, or anywhere
> else
> in the constitution outside of section VI.
>
> If the content say of section III clearly would not be meant to define
> substance
> in section IV, and IV is not meant to define section V, and V not VI, then
> why
> should content put forth in section VI pertaining to public religious
> institutions be used to defined what it means to be a senator?
>
> Again, I understand the reach, but I wonder if the reach, is appropriate.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> ________________________________
> From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
><famila.ulleria.venii@...<famila.ulleria.venii%40gmail.com>
> >
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 8:50:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
> application of Hortensia's sentence
>
> Ave G Ocatvius;
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 6:34 PM, G Octavius Priscus scripsit:
> >
> > Salve Sulla,
> >
> > I don't see the connection between section VI A of the constitution
> > which states that:
> >
> > All ll magistrates and Senators, as officers of the State, shall be
> required
> > to publicly show respect for the Religio Romana and the Gods and
> > Goddesses that made Rome great.
> >
> > and the issue of senatorial status.
> >
> > Am I misunderstanding the document or am I reading the wrong document?
> >
> > You referred to section VI A correct?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
>
> If i amy, from the perspective of someone who has been around awhile,
> and watches the by-play, mostly from afar?
>
> The point was raised that a seat in the Senate is not "holding an
> office, " per se.
>
> Sulla has quoted a passage in the Nova Roma Constitution, which does
> refer to Senators as officers. Admittedly as officers of State,
> rather than government, but officers nonetheless.
>
> If we are to take this at face value, then a sentence barring one from
> holding office would extend to one's seat in the Curia, as well as
> other positions, which are touted as offices of one sort or another.
>
> In example, if I were under a similar sentence, I should stop being
> both a Lictor and Dominus Sodalis.
>
> =====================================
> In amicitia et fide
> Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> Civis circa Quintilis MMDCCLI a.u.c.
> Lictor, Patrician, Paterfamilias
> Religio Septentrionalis - Poeta
> (Folkbuilder Asatru Folk Assembly IL & WI)
>
> Dominus Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
>
> (sites subject to occassional updates)
> http://www.myspace.com/venator_poetus
> http://confoederatio-romana.webs.com/
> http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
> --
> May the Holy Powers smile on our efforts.
> May the Spirits of our family lines nod in approval.
> May we be of Worth to our fellow Nova Romans.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Ullerio Venatori Octavio Prisco Cornelio Sullae omnibusque in foro SPD

Venator, you would be correct if they are identified within our law as "public officers" or the natural equivalent (i.e., "officers of the State").

Again we are not allowed to imagine what the writers of a lex or decretum might have *meant* by a phrase or word; if it is, it is. The pontifical decreta clearly define priesthoods as public offices; the Constitution refers to senators as "officers", therefore, they are.

Once the verdict has been passed and the sentence issued, according to our law only a lex passed in comitia - not a religious college, not a magistrate, not even the iudex himself - can change it, and it must be accepted as pronounced.

This is simply another wedge with which Piscinus is attempting to subvert the functions of the civil government so that he can play at being some sort of priest-king, no matter what violence he must wreak upon the State to do so.

Valete,

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Octobris; haec dies
comitialis est.

"And before them [the halls of Hades and Persephone] a dreaded hound
(deinos kunos), on watch, who has no pity, but a vile stratagem: as
people go in he fawns on all, with actions of his tail and both ears,
but he will not let them go back out, but lies in wait for them and
eats them up, when he catches any going back through the gates." -
Hesiod, Theogony 769ff

"Once, they say, the gate-wrecking, unconquerable son [Herakles] of
thunder-flashing Zeus went down to the house of slender-ankled
Persephone to fetch up to the light from Hades the jagged-toothed dog
[Kerberos], son of unapproachable Ekhidna. There he perceived the
spirits of wretched mortals by the waters of Kokytos, like the leaves
buffeted by the wind over the bright sheep-grazed headlands of Ida." -
Bacchylides, Fragment 5 (trans. Campbell)

"Let us beware lest the cursed Kerberos prevent us even from the
nethermost hell from delivering the goddess by his furious howling,
just as he did when on earth." - Aristophanes, "Peace" 315

"'O, you most shameless desperate ruffian, you O, villain, villain,
arrant vilest villain! Who seized our Kerberos by the throat, and
fled, and ran, and rushed, and bolted, haling of the dog, my charge!'"
- Aristophanes, "Frogs" 468

"On the promontory [of Tainaronin Lakonia] is a temple like a cave,
with a statue of Poseidon in front of it. Some of the Greek poets
state that Herakles brought up the Hound of Haides (Haidou kuna) here,
though there is no road that leads underground through the cave, and
it is not easy to believe that the gods possess any underground
dwelling where the souls collect. But Hekataios of Miletos gave a
plausible explanation, stating that a terrible serpent lived on
Tainaron, and was called the Hound of Hades, because any one bitten
was bound to die of the poison at once, and it was this snake, he
said, that was brought by Herakles to Eurystheus. But Homer, who was
the first to call the creature brought by Herakles the Hound of
Haides, did not give it a name or describe it as of manifold form, as
he did the Khimaira. Late poets gave the name Kerberos, and though in
other respects they made him resemble a dog, they say that he had
three heads. Homer, however, does not imply that he was a dog, the
friend of man, any more than if he called a real serpent the Hound of
Hades." - Pausanius, Description of Greece 3.25.5-7

"For that son's [Theseus'] death Medea mixed her poisoned aconite,
brought with her long ago from Scythicae's shores, said to be
slobbered by Cerberus. There is a cavern yawning dark and deep, and
there a falling track where Hero Tirynthius dragged struggling,
blinking, screwing up his eyes against the sunlight and the blinding
day, the hell-hound Cerberus, fast on a chain of adamant. His three
throats filled the air with triple barking, barks of frenzied rage,
and spattered the green meadows with white spume. This, so men think,
congealed and, nourished by the rich rank soil, gained poisonous
properties. And since they grow and thrive on hard bare rocks the farm
folk call them 'flintworts' - aconites. This poison Aegeus, by Medea's
guile, offered to Theseus as his enemy, father to son." - Ovid,
Metamorphoses 7.412

"Cerberus lying on the murky threshold perceived them, and reared up
with all his mouths wide agape, fierce even to entering folk; but now
his black neck swelled up all threatening, now had he torn and
scattered their bones upon the ground, had not the god [Hermes] with
branch Lethaean soothed his bristling frame and quelled with threefold
slumber the steely glare." - Statius, Theibad 2.27

"When you [Psykhe on her journey to the underworld] have crossed the
river [Akheron] and have advanced a little further, some aged women
weaving at the loom will beg you to lend a hand for a short time. But
you are not permitted to touch that either, for all these and many
other distractions are part of the ambush which Venus will set to
induce you to release one of the cakes from your hands. Do not imaging
that the loss of a mere barley cake is a trivial matter, for if you
relinquish either of them, the daylight of this world above will be
totally denied you. Posted there is a massive hound with a huge,
triple-formed head. This monstrous, fearsome brute confronts the dead
with thunderous barking, though his menaces are futile since he can do
them no harm. He keeps constant guard before the very threshold and
the dark hall of Proserpina, protecting that deserted abode of Dis.
You must disarm him by offering him a cake as his spoils. Then you can
easily pass him, and gain immediate access to Proserpina herself . . .
When you have obtained what she gives you, you must make your way
back, using the remaining cake to neutralize the dog's savagery." -
Apuleius, The Golden Ass 6.19

September 19-26 is International "Adopt-a-Less-Adoptable Pet Week", so it is fitting to talk of Kerberos! Kerberos (or Cerberus) is the gigantic hound which guards the gates of Hades. He is posted to prevent ghosts of the dead from leaving the underworld. Kerberos is described as a three-headed dog with a serpent's tail, a mane of snakes, and a lion's claws. Some say he has fifty heads, though this number might have included the heads of his serpentine mane. Woof!

Valete bene!

Cato

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Optime vos omnes.

Hodie est ante diem XI Kalendas Octobres; haec dies comitialis est: sacrum divae Faustinae Augustae; Pisces occidunt mane, item Aries occidere incipit, Favonius aut Corus, interdum Auster cum imbribus.

"The ancients were of the opinion that the vintage is never ripe before the equinox." ~ C. Plinius Secundus, Naturalis Historia 18.74

AUC 410 / 343 BCE: M. Valerius Corvus celebrated his second triumph during his third consulship for his victory over the Samnites, 10 k.Oct. ~ Fasti Triumphales


Development of the Theater

During the third lectisternium to be held at Rome, "scenic representations, a novelty to a nation of warriors who had hitherto only had the games of the Circus. They began, however, in a small way, as nearly everything does, and small as they were, they were borrowed from abroad. The players were sent for from Etruria; there were no words, no mimetic action; they danced to the measures of the flute and practiced graceful movements in Tuscan fashion. Afterwards the young men began to imitate them, exercising their wit on each other in burlesque verses, and suiting their action to their words. This became an established diversion, and was kept up by frequent practice. The Tuscan word for an actor is istrio, and so the native performers were called histriones. These did not, as in former times, throw out rough extempore effusions like the Fescennine verse, but they chanted satyrical verses quite metrically arranged and adapted to the notes of the flute, and these they accompanied with appropriate movements. Several years later Livius for the first time abandoned the loose satyrical verses and ventured to compose a play with a coherent plot. Like all his contemporaries, he acted in his own plays, and it is said that when he had worn out his voice by repeated recalls he begged leave to place a second player in front of the flutist to sing the monologue while he did the acting, with all the more energy because his voice no longer embarrassed him. Then the practice commenced of the chanter following the movements of the actors, the dialogue alone being left to their voices. When, by adopting this method in the presentation of pieces, the old farce and loose jesting was given up and the play became a work of art, the young people left the regular acting to the professional players and began to improvise comic verses. These were subsequently known as exodia (after-pieces), and were mostly worked up into the 'Atellane Plays.' These farces were of Oscan origin, and were kept by the young men in their own hands; they would not allow them to be polluted by the regular actors. Hence it is a standing rule that those who take part in the Atellanae are not deprived of their civic standing, and serve in the army as being in no way connected with the regular acting. Amongst the things which have arisen from small beginnings, the origin of the stage ought to be put foremost, seeing that what was at first healthy and innocent has grown into a mad extravagance that even wealthy kingdoms can hardly support." ~ Titus Livius 7.2.3-13


The Albogalerus of the Flamen Dialis:

"He must not be in the open air without his apex; that he might go without it in the house has only recently been decided by the pontifices, so Masurius Sabinus wrote, and it is said that some other ceremonies have been remitted and he has been excused from observing them." ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae 10.15.17

"He alone has a white galerum, either because he is the greatest of the priests, or because a white victim should be sacrificed to Jupiter." ~ Aulus Gellius, Noctes Atticae 10.15.32

The prohibition that Gellius cites dates to the reign of Augustus, as before then the flamen Dialis had to wear his apex even when he was indoors, removing it only to sleep.The special insignia of the flamen Dialis included the toga praetexta, unlike the other flamines He also wore a laena over his toga, as did the other flamines maiores, but only his had a purple stripe on it. The laena was a sort of short toga of a type seen in Etruscan paintings. Unlike a toga it was thrown over both shoulders from the front so that it hung open in the back, where it was then affixed with clasps. It was round, both front and back, and had an appearance something like a chasuble worn by Catholic priests when performing ritual. The laena was worn by augures as well as the flamines when performing sacrifices. All of the flamines wore a special hat called an apex. The apex of the flamen Dialis was known as the albogalerus as it, unlike those worn by the other flamines, was white, and it was such a color because it was made of the skin of a special breed of oxen that was dedicated to Jupiter and used solely for sacrifices to Jupiter Optimus Maximus. Just as the garments worn by the flamen Dialis had to be woven by his wife and no other, his albogalerus was made from the skin of a sacrificial victim that he had himself offered to Jupiter. Should his apex ever fall from his head during ritual, or if any other irregularity occured by his fault, the flamen Dialis would be compelled to resign from office.

AUC 528-531 / 225-222 CE: "Two most illustrious priests were deposed from their priesthoods, Cornelius Cethegus, because he presented the entrails of his victim improperly, and Quintus Sulpicius, because, while he was sacrificing, the peaked cap which the priests called flamens' wear had fallen from his head. Moreover, because the squeak of a shrew-mouse (they call it "sorex") was heard just as Minucius the dictator appointed Caius Flaminius his master of horse, the people deposed these officials and put others in their places. And although they were punctilious in such trifling matters, they did not fall into any superstition, because they made no change or deviation in their ancient rites." ~ Plutarch, Life of Marcellus 5.4

AUC 542 / 211 CE: "C. Claudius, one of the Flamens of Jupiter, was guilty of irregularity in laying the selected parts of the victim on the altar and consequently resigned his office." ~ Titus Livius 26.23.8

AUC 573 / 180 CE: The Rex Sacrorum P. Cloelius Siculus was ordered by the pontifex maximus to resign from his office "on account of the entrails of sacrificial victims were taken to the altars of the immortal Gods without proper care." (Val. Max. 1.1.4)


AUC 878 / 125 CE: Birth of diva Faustina

Annia Galeria Faustina was the wife of Antonius Pius. Upon his ascension as Emperor the Senate conferred the title of Augusta on Faustina. She appears so on coins where she was identified with Ceres and with Vesta. "On the death of his wife Faustina, in the third year of his reign (141 CE), the Senate deified her, and voted her games and a temple and priestesses and statues of silver and of gold. The Emperor accepted these, and furthermore granted permission that her statue be erected in all the circuses; and when the senate voted her a golden statue, he undertook to erect it himself (Historia Augusta: Antoninus Pius 6.7-8)." Her "consecratio" was commemorated on coins showing her ascension into Heaven on the back of Jupiter's eagle. On other coins she is identified as Aeternitas. Coins inscribed with "puellae Faustinianae" commemorate her good works in trying to provide free education for orphaned girls. Her temple was built along the Via Sacra at the eastern end of the Forum. Twenty years later, when Antonius Pius died, he too was deified and his name added above hers on the temple dedication. Across the front of her temple were six columns, with two more on either side, made of Carystian green marble, topped by Corinthian capitals, and a pediment whose frieze bears griffins, acanthus, and candelabra. The podium and lower portions of the cella walls, along with the steps were faced with white marble. Originally a gilded colossal statue of Faustina seated on a throne could be seen through the front columns when the temple doors were opened. To this was later added a colossus of Antoninus Pius; fragments of both colossi remain. The roof and upper portion of the temple were removed, as was much of its marble for the rebuilding of the Lateran palace. The Temple of Antoninus and Faustina was eventually converted into the church of S. Lorenzo, which has preserved it after being abused in the Medieval period.

On the reuse of temples we may consider two commentaries:

"According to C. Aelius Gallus, De Significatione Verborum Quae ad Ius Civile Pertinent: 'If what specifically makes temples sacrum is present, then the same can be said of laws and institutions put forward by the ancestors as sanctum, in order that they cannot be violated without punishment.'" ~ GRF Aelius 18; Fest. p.278b.15

The Temple of Faustina was ordered by the Senate and constructed by her husband, a man known for his piety towards his family. One would have to assume that everything was carried out properly to see that her temple was properly consecrated and thus sacrum. First it would have been set off from the surrounding area by the formation of a templum and the taking of auspicia within a tabernaculum.

"In the constitution of a tabernaculum, if first its local was vitium when it was taken, and then it was selected (as a holy place), if it should afterwards be polluted then it will revert to its original condition." ~ Servius, Ad Aeneis 2.178

Servius is quoting from the Books of the Augures. Thus, although once consecrated as sacred, the Temple of Faustina, and all other Roman temples, once polluted, were abandoned and thus no longer held as sacred ground. They could be re-established, reconsecrated, after purification as Tacitus described of the Capitolium.


AUC 1207 / 454 CE: Death of Aetius

Months earlier, the Roman general Aetius, aided by the Visigoth king Theodoric I, had defeated Attila the Hun at the Battle of Chalons. As reward, on 21 Sept. emperor Valentinianus strangled Aetius with his own hands. In the following year, 16 March 455, two of Aetius' guards murdered Valentinianus, ending the house of Theodosius.


Today's thought is from Sextus, Select Sayings 7:

"Whatever you honor above all things, that which you so honor will have dominion over you. But if you give yourself over to the dominion of God, you will thus have dominion over all things."



Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

Salvete!

Situm interretialem modo proposui ubi forsitan auxilium petere de grammatica Latina possimus; ut tamen permaneat, socii quinquaginta quinque nobis opus sunt. Spero vos atque socios vestros omnes adiuncturos esse, nam huiusmodi situs erit utilissimus.

http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/21061/latin-language-and-usage

Multas gratias vobis ago.

Valete!

Mancuniensis
(aka Italofilo)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

can someone fill me in on the details. ive seemed to have caught the tail end of this discussion.
i am not yet a citizen of nova roma but i have put in an applicaton. hopefully im accepted
 
titus aurelius trio?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mancuniensis,
num sequor situm ipsum.
Gratias tibi ago.
Optime vale,
Livia

> Salvete!
>
> Situm interretialem modo proposui ubi forsitan auxilium petere de
> grammatica Latina possimus; ut tamen permaneat, socii quinquaginta
> quinque nobis opus sunt. Spero vos atque socios vestros omnes adiuncturos
> esse, nam huiusmodi situs erit utilissimus.
>
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/21061/latin-language-and-usage
>
> Multas gratias vobis ago.
>
> Valete!
>
> Mancuniensis
> (aka Italofilo)
>
>
>
> =======
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15920)
> http://www.pctools.com/
> =======
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Salve Trio,

Welcome fellow newbie!

You've stepped into quite a minefield with that question. You will no doubt get
many responses from those who have been here a long time and are involved in
some way.


I would try to lay down the basics with what little I know but I would probably
do the issue a great injustice and no doubt incur the ire of some of the more
passionate players in this current drama if I relay any of the facts
incorrectly.

I've been rummaging around the archives of the ML and perusing the wiki trying
to get a sense of it all; you might want to do some of that yourself if you're
really interested. I've also gotten a great deal of information from asking
other members here; as you have just done.


My biggest piece of advice is don't expect to get it all summed up in a
nutshell. It's very complex and multilayered but that's to be expected. You
will get many pieces from different folks and you will have to fathom it all out
as each piece of info you get will come with its own set of lenses.

Good lick my friend.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus





________________________________
From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 11:37:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
application of Hortensia's sentence


can someone fill me in on the details. ive seemed to have caught the tail end of
this discussion.
i am not yet a citizen of nova roma but i have put in an applicaton. hopefully
im accepted

titus aurelius trio?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Actually the facts themselves are not so multi-layered. Ex citizen
Hortensia Maior was put on trial and convicted.

The Iudex decided that she should not hold any offices until the Kalends of
January.

The Pontifex Maximus and his allies in the CP have decided that it does not
include Religious offices - incorrectly.

Lentulus, who is also a Pontifex believes it also does not include her
Senate seat.

The constitution clearly labels the Senate as an office, thus Lentulus is
incorrect.

The Religio offices are offices, thus Maior, before her resignation, should
have been summarily dismissed in her religious offices until the Kalends of
January when she would need to be reappointed.

All offices means ALL Offices. Unless we are going to go all Bill Clinton
and try to decide what the definition of "is" is. ;)

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Trio,
>
> Welcome fellow newbie!
>
> You've stepped into quite a minefield with that question. You will no doubt
> get
> many responses from those who have been here a long time and are involved
> in
> some way.
>
> I would try to lay down the basics with what little I know but I would
> probably
> do the issue a great injustice and no doubt incur the ire of some of the
> more
> passionate players in this current drama if I relay any of the facts
> incorrectly.
>
> I've been rummaging around the archives of the ML and perusing the wiki
> trying
> to get a sense of it all; you might want to do some of that yourself if
> you're
> really interested. I've also gotten a great deal of information from asking
>
> other members here; as you have just done.
>
> My biggest piece of advice is don't expect to get it all summed up in a
> nutshell. It's very complex and multilayered but that's to be expected. You
>
> will get many pieces from different folks and you will have to fathom it
> all out
> as each piece of info you get will come with its own set of lenses.
>
> Good lick my friend.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@... <warbuff_4%40yahoo.com>>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 11:37:03 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The consequences of your opposition to the
> application of Hortensia's sentence
>
> can someone fill me in on the details. ive seemed to have caught the tail
> end of
> this discussion.
> i am not yet a citizen of nova roma but i have put in an applicaton.
> hopefully
> im accepted
>
> titus aurelius trio?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]