--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Vedius <vedius@...> wrote:

>
>
> Incorrectly, as it turns out. One leaves a nation through emigration.
> One enters it through immigration.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus
> Pater Patriae
>

Salve,

It wasn't incorrect.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salve Magistra,

ATS: I thought this little soirée was supposed to start on the 8th...hope

> I don¹t have to leave a day earlier. A little 900 mile jaunt is bad
> enough...when is Scotty gonna get that transporter online?

Yes, you are correct, it is from the 8th to the 11th:) Looking forward to seeing you!
Well now I have to get back to downloading some gangsta rap for Maria onto my iphone4 *laughs* (Just kidding Maria but I do hope you like drums and also Alkan [piano by Hamelin of course])...
Well back to doing "stuff."

Vale optime amica,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Maxima Valeria Messallina <maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:

>
> <<--- On Sun, 9/26/10, lathyrus77 <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> I believe some even tried to say that since you hadn't personally told a censor through email that it didn't count as a resignation (you merely announced it on the main list). When it was determined you actually had resigned, you had to wait 90 days which was waived, wasn't it? And then promptly returned to full citizen status and senatorial status.
>
> It seems your example shows it's quite easy to resign and return.>>
>  
>  
> Wait a minute... I never personally told either censor through an email. I just posted to the ML. Does that mean I am not really resigned?
>  
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
>

Salve,


Hehe, that would mean I didn't resign either since I announced it through the main list as well.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

>
>
> Salve, Julia, et salvete, omnes!
>
>
> Salve Magistra,
>
> ATS: I thought this little soirée was supposed to start on the 8th...hope
>> > I don¹t have to leave a day earlier. A little 900 mile jaunt is bad
>> > enough...when is Scotty gonna get that transporter online?
>
> Yes, you are correct, it is from the 8th to the 11th:)
>
> ATS2: Good. Hope I can find it, having arrived safely under the tutelage
> of every deity concerned with travel, from St. Chris to Mercurius to the
> AAA...
>
> Looking forward to seeing you!
>
> ATS2: Ditto, assuming that I arrive. And in one piece with my brain and
> body intact.
>
> Well now I have to get back to downloading some gangsta rap for Maria onto my
> iphone4 *laughs*
>
> ATS2: Oh, that¹s just the very thing for her! And me! Can¹t you find
> some nice Gilbert and Sullivan, or classical, or acid rock, or be-bop...yunno,
> good music minus the Tourette vocabulary? Maybe even disco...Vangelis?
>
>
> (Just kidding Maria but I do hope you like drums and also Alkan [piano by
> Hamelin of course])...
>
> ATS2: Who dey?
>
> Well back to doing "stuff."
>
> Vale optime amica,
>
> Et tu!
>
> Julia
>
> Vale, et valete!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Rota,

Is this Dr Steven Saylor?

Optime vale!

Scriptrix

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> The Conventus and the Vita Romana (Castra mercatoria) have taken nice
> shape.
>
> We will have Prof. Dr. Sailer, President of the Classical Association of
> South Caroline holding a speach about Ancient Roman and Egyptian Relations
> during the Republic and Imperial time. A real honor to get her in. Latin
> Classes have made reservations also. Ancient Roman foods
> Music are waiting. Replica and plant vendors are bringing products.
> Schools are informed and invited. The Roman VIth, XIth and Xth Legions of
> GA,FL and SC will be presenting them self. A children and adult javelin
> contest will be held etc etc.
>
> Everybody is warmly welcome to a the real NR EVENT !
>
> Please come and spread the word out by email if you can.
>
> LETS GET REAL HERE FOR A CHANGE ! ! !
>
> Hoping to see a lot of you not just public visitors !
>
> Valete Bene
>
> PRAETORIVM CASTRA ROTA
> C.AQV.ROTA
> LEG.PR.PR.PROV.A-Ae
> TRIB.PLEB.NOVA ROMAE
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Scriptrix amica,

No this is Venerabilis Soror Prof Tracy Seiler Ph.D, VITA here:
http://www.rnh.richland2.org/~tseiler/EdCV.htm

Vale optime,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Decia Scriptrix" <a.decia.scriptrix@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Rota,
>
> Is this Dr Steven Saylor?
>
> Optime vale!
>
> Scriptrix
>
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > The Conventus and the Vita Romana (Castra mercatoria) have taken nice
> > shape.
> >
> > We will have Prof. Dr. Sailer, President of the Classical Association of
> > South Caroline holding a speach about Ancient Roman and Egyptian Relations
> > during the Republic and Imperial time. A real honor to get her in. Latin
> > Classes have made reservations also. Ancient Roman foods
> > Music are waiting. Replica and plant vendors are bringing products.
> > Schools are informed and invited. The Roman VIth, XIth and Xth Legions of
> > GA,FL and SC will be presenting them self. A children and adult javelin
> > contest will be held etc etc.
> >
> > Everybody is warmly welcome to a the real NR EVENT !
> >
> > Please come and spread the word out by email if you can.
> >
> > LETS GET REAL HERE FOR A CHANGE ! ! !
> >
> > Hoping to see a lot of you not just public visitors !
> >
> > Valete Bene
> >
> > PRAETORIVM CASTRA ROTA
> > C.AQV.ROTA
> > LEG.PR.PR.PROV.A-Ae
> > TRIB.PLEB.NOVA ROMAE
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve Iulia,

Ahhh, thank you amica.

Optime vale!

Scriptrix

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:26 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve Scriptrix amica,
>
> No this is Venerabilis Soror Prof Tracy Seiler Ph.D, VITA here:
> http://www.rnh.richland2.org/~tseiler/EdCV.htm
>
> Vale optime,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, "A. Decia
> Scriptrix" <a.decia.scriptrix@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Rota,
> >
> > Is this Dr Steven Saylor?
> >
> > Optime vale!
> >
> > Scriptrix
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>wrote:
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > The Conventus and the Vita Romana (Castra mercatoria) have taken nice
> > > shape.
> > >
> > > We will have Prof. Dr. Sailer, President of the Classical Association
> of
> > > South Caroline holding a speach about Ancient Roman and Egyptian
> Relations
> > > during the Republic and Imperial time. A real honor to get her in.
> Latin
> > > Classes have made reservations also. Ancient Roman foods
> > > Music are waiting. Replica and plant vendors are bringing products.
> > > Schools are informed and invited. The Roman VIth, XIth and Xth Legions
> of
> > > GA,FL and SC will be presenting them self. A children and adult javelin
> > > contest will be held etc etc.
> > >
> > > Everybody is warmly welcome to a the real NR EVENT !
> > >
> > > Please come and spread the word out by email if you can.
> > >
> > > LETS GET REAL HERE FOR A CHANGE ! ! !
> > >
> > > Hoping to see a lot of you not just public visitors !
> > >
> > > Valete Bene
> > >
> > > PRAETORIVM CASTRA ROTA
> > > C.AQV.ROTA
> > > LEG.PR.PR.PROV.A-Ae
> > > TRIB.PLEB.NOVA ROMAE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et salvete;

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Gn Iulius Caesar scripsit;

>
> Salve Prisce.
>
> I assume you mean other than the illegal solution cooked up in the first trial? If so, no. Nova Roman law gets bent and twisted and when gaps appear, instead of taking remedial action to enshrine it in a lex, half-baked solutions are the vogue.
>
> Vale bene
> Caesar
>

Like using lightweight spackle compound to repair the mortar joints in
a brick wall; looks pretty for awhile, then crumbles under load.

Vale et Valete - Venator

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Kalendis Octobribus; hic dies nefastus est.

"Come let duteous Rome recognize October's kalends, the birthday of
eloquent Restitutius: with all your tongues, and in all your prayers,
utter well-omed words; we keep a birthday, be still, ye lawsuits!" -
Martial

"Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of gods and men,
without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justicia, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women"
- Silius Italicus, Punica 2.484-87

On this day a procession to the Capitol was led by the three chief
flamines who rode in a covered wagon. With the fingers of their right
hands wrapped with white cloth bands, they sacrificed to the abstract
gods of Faith and Honor. Afterwards was held a feast.


"There happened to be in each of the armies a triplet of brothers,
fairly matched in years and strength. It is generally agreed that they
were called Horatii and Curiatii. Few incidents in antiquity have been
more widely celebrated, yet in spite of its celebrity there is a
discrepancy in the accounts as to which nation each belonged. There
are authorities on both sides, but I find that the majority give the
name of Horatii to the Romans, and my sympathies lead me to follow
them. The kings suggested to them that they should each fight on
behalf of their country, and where victory rested, there should be the
sovereignty. They raised no objection; so the time and place were
fixed. But before they engaged a treaty was concluded between the
Romans and the Albans, providing that the nation whose representatives
proved victorious should receive the peaceable submission of the
other. This is the earliest treaty recorded, and as all treaties,
however different the conditions they contain, are concluded with the
same forms, I will describe the forms with which this one was
concluded as handed down by tradition. The Fetial put the formal
question to Tullus: "Do you, King, order me to make a treaty with the
Pater Patratus of the Alban nation?" On the king replying in the
affirmative, the Fetial said: "I demand of thee, King, some tufts of
grass." The king replied: "Take those that are pure." The Fetial
brought pure grass from the Citadel. Then he asked the king: "Do you
constitute me the plenipotentiary of the People of Rome, the Quirites,
sanctioning also my vessels and comrades?" To which the king replied:
"So far as may be without hurt to myself and the People of Rome, the
Quirites, I do." The Fetial was M. Valerius. He made Spurius Furius
the Pater Patratus by touching his head and hair with the grass. Then
the Pater Patratus, who is constituted for the purpose of giving the
treaty the religious sanction of an oath, did so by a long formula in
verse, which it is not worth while to quote. After reciting the
conditions he said: "Hear, O Jupiter, hear! thou Pater Patratus of the
people of Alba! Hear ye, too, people of Alba! As these conditions have
been publicly rehearsed from first to last, from these tablets, in
perfect good faith, and inasmuch as they have here and now been most
clearly understood, so these conditions the People of Rome will not be
the first to go back from. If they shall, in their national council,
with false and malicious intent be the first to go back, then do thou,
Jupiter, on that day, so smite the People of Rome, even as I here and
now shall smite this swine, and smite them so much the more heavily,
as thou art greater in power and might." With these words he struck
the swine with a flint. In similar wise the Albans recited their oath
and formularies through their own dictator and their priests.

On the conclusion of the treaty the six combatants armed themselves.
They were greeted with shouts of encouragement from their comrades,
who reminded them that their fathers' gods, their fatherland, their
fathers, every fellow-citizen, every fellow-soldier, were now watching
their weapons and the hands that wielded them. Eager for the contest
and inspired by the voices round them, they advanced into the open
space between the opposing lines. The two armies were sitting in front
of their respective camps, relieved from personal danger but not from
anxiety, since upon the fortunes and courage of this little group hung
the issue of dominion. Watchful and nervous, they gaze with feverish
intensity on a spectacle by no means entertaining. The signal was
given, and with uplifted swords the six youths charged like a
battle-line with the courage of a mighty host. Not one of them thought
of his own danger; their sole thought was for their country, whether
it would be supreme or subject, their one anxiety that they were
deciding its future fortunes. When, at the first encounter, the
flashing swords rang on their opponents' shields, a deep shudder ran
through the spectators; then a breathless silence followed, as neither
side seemed to be gaining any advantage. Soon, however, they saw
something more than the swift movements of limbs and the rapid play of
sword and shield: blood became visible flowing from open wounds. Two
of the Romans fell one on the other, breathing out their life, whilst
all the three Albans were wounded. The fall of the Romans was welcomed
with a burst of exultation from the Alban army; whilst the Roman
legions, who had lost all hope, but not all anxiety, trembled for
their solitary champion surrounded by the three Curiatii. It chanced
that he was untouched, and though not a match for the three together,
he was confident of victory against each separately. So, that he might
encounter each singly, he took to flight, assuming that they would
follow as well as their wounds would allow. He had run some distance
from the spot where the combat began, when, on looking back, he saw
them following at long intervals from each other, the foremost not far
from him. He turned and made a desperate attack upon him, and whilst
the Alban army were shouting to the other Curiatii to come to their
brother's assistance, Horatius had already slain his foe and, flushed
with victory, was awaiting the second encounter. Then the Romans
cheered their champion with a shout such as men raise when hope
succeeds to despair, and he hastened to bring the fight to a close.
Before the third, who was not far away, could come up, he despatched
the second Curiatius. The survivors were now equal in point of
numbers, but far from equal in either confidence or strength. The one,
unscathed after his double victory, was eager for the third contest;
the other, dragging himself wearily along, exhausted by his wounds and
by his running, vanquished already by the previous slaughter of his
brothers, was an easy conquest to his victorious foe. There was, in
fact, no fighting. The Roman cried exultingly: "Two have I sacrificed
to appease my brothers' shades; the third I will offer for the issue
of this fight, that the Roman may rule the Alban." He thrust his sword
downward into the neck of his opponent, who could no longer lift his
shield, and then despoiled him as he lay. Horatius was welcomed by the
Romans with shouts of triumph, all the more joyous for the fears they
had felt. Both sides turned their attention to burying their dead
champions, but with very different feelings, the one rejoicing in
wider dominion, the other deprived of their liberty and under alien
rule. The tombs stand on the spots where each fell; those of the
Romans close together, in the direction of Alba; the three Alban
tombs, at intervals, in the direction of Rome." - Livy, History of
Rome 1.24-25

On this day was also commemorated the fight between the Horatii and
the Curiatii, known as the tigillum sororium. As Rome began to
expand, her neighbors did not always willingly submit to her control.
Alba Longa, the city founded by Aeneas' son Iulus (Ascanius), was one
such city. Frictions also arose because of cattle raiding between the
cities. According to the legend, Tullius Hostilius, king of Rome,
decided against full-scale war of city against city. Instead he
proposed single combats between a triplet of three brothers from Rome,
the Horatii, and another set of male triplets, the Curiatii, who were
citizens of Alba. Alba Longa agreed. The opponents were well-matched
and battle was fierce: all three Curiatii received wounds but two of
the Horatii were killed. The third resorted to a strategem: he fled,
which lured the Curiatii into pursuing him. But as they ran the
wounded and weakened Curiatii separated from each other and space
increased between them. This enabled the last of the Horatii to turn
and confront each individually. He succeeded in killing them one by
one, and thus won the day for Rome. The city of Alba Longa was
destroyed and Roman influence throughout Latium increased. The story
of the Horatii became a favorite for its celebration of stamina,
courage against the odds, and willingness to die for one's country.
The sister of the Horatii, however, openly wept over the death of one
of the Curiatii who had been her lover. In anger her surviving brother
killed her. For this murder he was condemned to death but was spared
when he appealed to the people. To do penance he was veiled and led
under a yoke, which was a typical punishment indicating submission to
the will of another. Unlike a yoke typically used with oxen or to
carry heavy buckets from one's shoulders, the punishment yoke was
created from three spears to form a doorway through which the penitent
must crawl.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salve!
Appius Claudius Cicero is a novaroman too.
Vale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Election of Collegium Pro DIIS is over. Here are the final results:

POLL QUESTION: Election Collegium Pro DIIS, MMDCCLXIII A.V.C.

CHOICES AND RESULTS

- M. IVLIVS SEVERVS, 66.67%
- M. OCTAVIVS CORVVS, 16.67%
- C. ANTONIVS COSTA, 16.67%


I happily congratulate my coleagues - M. IVLIVS SEVERVS and C. ANTONIVS COSTA for being elected to Collegium Pro DIIS. I wish all of us strenght and wisdom for giantic task that stand in front of us.

I also thank all members who voted for us for their trust in us and dedication for our sacred cause.

My special thank to our dedicarted friend C. Cocceius Spinula for his friendly help in organizing current elections! Gratias ago, amice!


Di vos incolumes,


CORVVS

*****

More info on: www.prodiis.org

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Fides Publica virtutem in nos addat.

Hodie est Kalendis Octobris; haec dies nefastus est: Fidei in Capitolio; Tigillo Sororio ad compitum acili; sacra Cereri.

"Come let duteous Rome recognize October's kalends, the birthday of eloquent Restitutius: with all your tongues, and in all your prayers, utter well-omened words; we keep a birthday, be still, ye lawsuits!" - Martial

Today is the third day of the nine day Hindu festival of Navratri, celebrating the Earth Mother Shakti in Her three forms of Durga, Lakshmi, and Saraswati. I note this because today also saw rustic rites for Ceres, part of a nine day fast, as is also part of Navratri. The fast of Ceres concludes on 4 October, which is the last day of the second segment of Navratri. Both festivals celebrate the beginning of winter, as the Roman festival concerns the departure of Proserpina back to Dis Pater, both with the promise of a peaceful, prosperous, and spiritual new year to follow.


AUC 500 / 253 BCE: Temple of Fides Publica

"Goddess more ancient than Jupiter, virtuous glory of gods and men, without whom there is no peace on earth, nor on the seas, sister of
Justicia, Fides, silent divinity within the hearts of men and women" ~ Silius Italicus, Punica 2.484-87

On this day the three flamines maiores led a procession to the Capitol. They rode in a covered wagon. With their right forearm wrapped to the fingers with bands of white cloth, they sacrificed to the Goddess Fides Publica and to Honor. Afterwards a feast was held.

Rex Numa Pompilius "instituted a yearly sacrifice to the Goddess Fides and ordered that the Flamenes should ride to Her temple in a hooded chariot, and should perform the service with their hands covered as far as the fingers, to signify that Faith must be sheltered and that Her seat is holy even when it is in a man's right hand." ~ Titus Livius 1.21

The introduction of the three flamines maiores to the rites of Fides is thought by some to have been at a very early date. But the temple didn't arise until the Middle Republican, by which time the flamines maiores represented the triune of deities of Jupiter, as the grandfather of Romulus, the father as Mars, and then Quirinus who by this time was identified with the son of Mars, Romulus.

"By such laws Numa brought the State to frugality and moderation. And in order to encourage the observance of justice in the matter of contracts, he hit upon a device which was unknown to all who have established the most celebrated institutions. For, observing that contracts made in public and before witnesses are, out of respect for the persons present, generally observed and that few are guilty of any violation of them, but that those which are made without witnesses — and these are much more numerous than the others — rest on no other security than the good faith of those who make them, he thought it incumbent on himself to make this faith the chief object of his care and to render it worthy of divine worship. For he felt that Justice, Themis, Nemesis, and those the Greeks call Erinyes, with other concepts of the kind, had been sufficiently revered and worshipped as Gods by the men of former times, but that Faith, than which there is nothing greater nor more sacred among men, was not yet worshipped either by states in their public capacity or by private persons. As the result of these reflections he, first of all men, erected a temple to Fides Publica and instituted sacrifices in Her honor at public expense in the same manner as the rest of the Gods. And in truth the result was bound to be that this attitude of good faith and constancy on the part of the State toward all men would in the course of time render the behavior of the individual citizens similar. In any case, so revered and inviolable a thing was good faith in their estimation, that the greatest oath a man could take was by his own faith, and this had greater weight than all the testimony taken together. And if there was any dispute between one man and another concerning a contract entered into without witnesses, the faith of either of the parties was sufficient to decide the controversy and prevent it from going any farther. And the magistrates and courts of justice based their decisions in most causes on the oaths of the parties attesting by their faith. Such regulations, devised by Numa at that time to encourage moderation and enforce justice, rendered the Roman State more orderly than the best regulated household." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus 2.75

Wrapping the right arm in white cloth from just below the elbow to the index and middle finger signified the ritual purity of the flamenes maiores as they were led by the flamen Dialis in sacrifices to Fides. The statue of Fides may have had Her arm enwrapped as well. She was at least clothed in a white garment to show Her purity (Horace, Odes 1.35.21). Certain parts of the body had religious significance, the right hand being one of the most important.

"There are also certain religious ideas attached to other parts of the body, as is testified in raising the back of the right hand to the lips, and extending it as a token of good faith (Fides). It was the custom of the ancient Greeks, when in the act of supplication, to touch the chin. The seat of the memory lies in the lower part of the ear, which we touch when we summon a witness to depose upon memory to an arrest. The seat, too, of Nemesis lies behind the right ear, a Goddess which has never yet found a Latin name, no, not in the Capitol even. It is to this part that we apply the finger next the little finger, after touching the mouth with it, when we silently ask pardon of the Gods for having let slip an indiscreet word." ~ G. Plinius Secundus, Historia Naturalis 11.103 (250)


AUC 80 / 673 BCE: The Tigillum Sororium

In the war between Rome under Tullus Hostilius and Alba Longa under Gaius Cluilius, a treaty allowed that the outcome of the war should be decided by champions. Rome chose the three Horatii brothers and Alba Longa the three Curiatii brothers. Publius Horatius alone survived the contest, and thus was Alba Longa brought under Rome.

"Horatius was marching at the head of the Roman army, carrying in front of him his triple spoils. His sister, who had been betrothed to one of the Curiatii, met him outside the Capene gate. She recognised on her brother's shoulders the cloak of her betrothed, which she had made with her own hands; and bursting into tears she tore her hair and called her dead lover by name. The triumphant soldier was so enraged by his sister's outburst of grief in the midst of his own triumph and the public rejoicing that he drew his sword and stabbed the girl. 'Go,' he cried, in bitter reproach, 'go to your betrothed with your ill-timed love, forgetful as you are of your dead brothers, of the one who still lives, and of your country! So perish every Roman woman who mourns for an enemy!' The deed horrified patricians and plebeians alike; but his recent services were a set-off to it. He was brought before the king for trial. To avoid responsibility for passing a harsh sentence, which would be repugnant to the populace, and then carrying it into execution, the king summoned an assembly of the people, and said: "I appoint two duumvirs to judge the treason of Horatius according to law." The dreadful language of the law was: 'The duumvirs shall judge cases of treason; if the accused appeal from the duumvirs, the appeal shall be heard; if their sentence be confirmed, the lictor shall hang him by a rope on the fatal tree, and shall scourge him either within or without the pomoerium.' The duumvirs appointed under this law did not think that by its provisions they had the power to acquit even an innocent person. Accordingly they condemned him; then one of them said: 'Publius Horatius, I pronounce you guilty of treason. Lictor, bind his hands.' The lictor had approached and was fastening the cord, when Horatius, at the suggestion of Tullus, who placed a merciful interpretation on the law, said, 'I appeal.' The appeal was accordingly brought before the people.

"Their decision was mainly influenced by Publius Horatius, the father, who declared that his daughter had been justly slain; had it not been so, he would have exerted his authority as a father in punishing his son. Then he implored them not to bereave of all his children the man whom they had so lately seen surrounded with such noble offspring. Whilst saying this he embraced his son, and then, pointing to the spoils of the Curiatii suspended on the spot now called the Pila Horatia, he said: "Can you bear, Quirites, to see bound, scourged, and tortured beneath the gallows the man whom you saw, lately, coming in triumph adorned with his foemen's spoils? Why, the Albans themselves could not bear the sight of such a hideous spectacle. Go, lictor, bind those hands which when armed but a little time ago won dominion for the Roman people. Go, cover the head of the liberator of this City! Hang him on the fatal tree, scourge him within the pomoerium, if only it be amongst the trophies of his foes, or without, if only it be amongst the tombs of the Curiatii! To what place can you take this youth where the monuments of his splendid exploits will not vindicate him from such a shameful punishment?" The father's tears and the young soldier's courage ready to meet every peril were too much for the people. They acquitted him because they admired his bravery rather than because they regarded his cause as a just one. But since a murder in broad daylight demanded some expiation, the father was commanded to make an atonement for his son at the cost of the State. After offering certain expiatory sacrifices he erected a beam across the street and made the young man pass under it, as under a yoke, with his head covered. This beam exists to-day, having always been kept in repair by the State: it is called 'The Sister's Beam.' A tomb of hewn stone was constructed for Horatia on the spot where she was murdered." ~ Titus Livius 1.26


"The king did not believe that the judgment thus passed upon Horatius by men was a sufficient atonement to satisfy those who desired to observe due reverence toward the Gods; but sending for the pontiffs, he ordered them to appease the Gods and other divinities and to purify Horatius with those lustrations with which it was customary for involuntary homicides to be expiated. The pontiffs erected two altars, one to Juno Sororia, to whom the care of sisters is allotted, and the other to a certain God or lesser divinity of the country called in their language Janus, to whom was now added the name Curiatius, derived from that of the cousins who had been slain by Horatius; and after they had offered certain sacrifices upon these altars, they finally, among other expiations, led Horatius under the yoke. It is customary among the Romans, when enemies deliver up their arms and submit to their power, to fix two pieces of wood upright in the ground and fasten a third to the top of them transversely, then to lead the captives under this structure, and after they have passed through, to grant them their liberty and leave to return home. This they call a yoke; and it was the last of the customary expiatory ceremonies used upon this occasion by those who purified Horatius. The place in the city where they performed this expiation is regarded by all the Romans as sacred; it is in the street that leads down from the Carinae as one goes towards Cuprius Street. Here the altars then erected still remain, and over them extends a beam which is fixed in each of the opposite walls; the beam lies over the heads of those who go out of this street and is called in the Roman tongue "the Sister's Beam," Tigillum Sororium This place, then, is still preserved in the city as a monument to this man's misfortune and honored by the Romans with sacrifices every year." ~ Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Roman Antiquities 3.22.6-8

It would seem from legend that these annual rituals were maintained as sacra privita of gens Horatia, but that the public was so involved in viewing the rituals that over time this was adopted as a public ritual, or at least paid in part at public expense. On the other hand it may have once been a ritual purification of girls coming of age, or a purification ritual of a returning army. In either case then the ritual of the Tigillum Sororium began as a public ritual and only later was a legend created to explain it.


AUC 422 / 331 BCE: The Battle of Arbela

Perhaps the most significant battle in the ancient history, because of the results that came from it, was when Alexander matched his phalanxes on the "Pasture of the Camels" (Gaugamela) near the town of Arbela against the massive army of Darius III. Following the Battle of Issus (333 BCE) Alexander plunged down the Syrian coast and into Egypt, seizing the ports, by which he deprived them to Darius' navy and secured his own lines of communication. This provided Darius two years to raise a new army. Alexander is thought to have had 40,000 infantry and another 7,000 in cavalry. The army of Darius was numbered by Diodorus at 800,000 infantry and 200,000 cavalry. Arrian numbered them at a million foot and 400,000 cavalry, while Curtius gives the more reasonable figures of 200,000 infantry and 45,000 cavalry. However many men Darius may have had in his army, most of his infantry were untrained levies. In reality he had about 1,000 foot guardsmen of any real quality, and then perhaps a few thousand additional Greek mercenaries. His real advantage was in light cavalry, which did manage to out flank Alexander's line and attack his camp. This, however, only took the Persian cavalry away from the main action at the most critical moment. A gap opened in the Persian line, through which Alexander led a charge of his Companions directly at Darius. Darius then fled, and with him his army disintegrated. Alexander pursued Darius until finally one of his own satraps murdered Darius. The result won Alexander the Persian Empire and brought Western (i. e. Greek) civilization to the threshold of the East, and opened Indian and Southeast Asian trade to the West.


AUC 961 / 208 CE: Birth of Severus Alexander

A descendent of Alexander the Great, Severus Alexander was declared emperor by the legions, when the Praetorians assassinated his cousin Elgabalus. Severus Alexander became known as "the Restorer of the World" for his good rule, following the disastrous Elgabalus.


Our thought for today comes from Alexander the Great, as found in his biography by Plutarch:

"Among the sayings of one Psammon, a philosopher, whom he heard in Egypt, he most approved of this, that all men are governed by God, because in everything, that which is chief and commands is divine. But what he pronounced himself upon this subject was even more like a philosopher, for he said God was the common father of us all, but more particularly of the best of us."


Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

M. Moravius C Petronio s. p. d.

The CP never voted on the matter of the tribunal because the verdict did not concern the CP or membership in the CP, as a praetorial tribunal has no authority to decide on who may be a member of the CP.

None the less, with both Metellus and Maior, it is the CP that decides who are members and whether to suspend their voting privileges. That is the point I made. The decreta of the CP, in accordance with the Constitution, appoints, dismisses, and disciplines Sacerdotes. The disciplinary action stated that Hortensia's voting privileges were removed for "no more than three months" or until she fulfilled her instructions to apologize and perform piacula. She completed her assignments as instructed and thus her voting privileges were restored for her. Her vote counted, and it was accepted by the CP. Only a couple dissidents continue to claim otherwise, dissidents who are attempting to cause a schism.

The same is to be said about this claim by Cato. A minority claims that the Senate session was voided by a consular veto. It was not. A majority of the Tribuni Plebis dismissed that claim, even if one did not. A greater than two-thirds majority of the Senate was present. A two-thirds majority of the entire Senate voted to appoint Marinus as dictator. The State of Maine law states that when a majority of the Board of Directors act as a Board, even if not formally called, then its decisions are corporate decisions. Under the Constitution and the Lex de reatione, the Comitia Curiata must meet when the Senate appoints. The only thing that legal advice questioned was whether the office of dictator itself is legal because it combines legislative authority with executive authority. The same legal advisor stated that the Senate session and its decisions were legal, no matter what the minority wish to claim.

The petitio by Cato is based on a false assumption - the minority opinion - and thus it is a false claim. He has "knowingly and intentionally provided false and misleading information to other persons or bodies, namely, to the Consul and before this Forum. Thus, under the Leges Saliciae it is Cato who has committed a crime of FALSUM, and Albucius has committed ABUSUS POTESTATIS.

And you, Tribune?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius M. Moravio s.p.d.,
>
> > ... Thus on 21 August the Collegium Pontificum issued its second Decretum Pontificum de M. Hortensia Flamenica Carmentis, in which it stated:
> > "Having completed her instruction as previously given by the Collegium Pontificum, the voting privileges of Flamenica M. Hortensia in the Collegium Pontificum are restored."
>
> Taratata... you do not remember... in fact.
> This restoration above is about the item on a precedent meeting of the CP in which we voted, on your demand, to suspend the voting right of Maior for 3 months, this restoration had nothing to do with the judgement given by the judex T. Sabinus.
>
> And you know that, the CP never voted on the judgement given by Sabinus.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> pridie Kalendas Octobres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Salve Magistra,

Please excuse my unresponsiveness but I already turn in circles here.

I just want to let you know how I am pleased to welcome you here and be my guest.
We have at least 4 to 5 Latin Classes coming. The first will arrive at FRI
morning ca at 11 AM. Just to let you know. Be armed !!! ;-).

There will be a few nice looking Soldiers around too. The LEG VI, X and XI will be here !!!

DR Seiler is the president of the Classical Association here and will come on Sat for a short speech at arround 11 AM.
It looks like there might come Dr Phillips of the University of Charleston too. I do not now for sure yet. And I do not know if he is married !
But I can asure you the Soldiers are at least not supposed to be married ;-).

Well however, I guess it will be better frequented than I thought. (swallow).  Since I use to curse Italian a lot under stress, I finally have the opportunity to learn some nice Roman ways to do so...will you teach me a little ?

Rota

 

--- On Fri, 10/1/10, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CONVENTUS 8th to 11th
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 6:14 AM







 









>

>

> Salve, Julia, et salvete, omnes!

>

>

> Salve Magistra,

>

> ATS: I thought this little soirée was supposed to start on the 8th...hope

>> > I don¹t have to leave a day earlier. A little 900 mile jaunt is bad

>> > enough...when is Scotty gonna get that transporter online?

>

> Yes, you are correct, it is from the 8th to the 11th:)

>

> ATS2: Good. Hope I can find it, having arrived safely under the tutelage

> of every deity concerned with travel, from St. Chris to Mercurius to the

> AAA...

>

> Looking forward to seeing you!

>

> ATS2: Ditto, assuming that I arrive. And in one piece with my brain and

> body intact.

>

> Well now I have to get back to downloading some gangsta rap for Maria onto my

> iphone4 *laughs*

>

> ATS2: Oh, that¹s just the very thing for her! And me! Can¹t you find

> some nice Gilbert and Sullivan, or classical, or acid rock, or be-bop...yunno,

> good music minus the Tourette vocabulary? Maybe even disco...Vangelis?

>

>

> (Just kidding Maria but I do hope you like drums and also Alkan [piano by

> Hamelin of course])...

>

> ATS2: Who dey?

>

> Well back to doing "stuff."

>

> Vale optime amica,

>

> Et tu!

>

> Julia

>

> Vale, et valete!

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, jeffery craft <warbuff_4@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete
> i am sory about the spam messages you get from me . i dont know how to stop them. somebody hacked my yahoo account.dont be mad at me i am doing my best to fix this.
> Valete
>

Salve,

Change your yahoo password to atleast 8 characters, using at least one symbol(!, *, $), at least one number, at least one upper case letter. Update your password every month or so.

Run an anti-spyware program on your PC.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
Date:		Saturday October 2, 2010
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Ater (unlucky) *Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors. *Sacrifices should not be made. *These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed. *Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky. NOTA BENE: Normal work would still be performed on dies atri, and as part of performing any work one performs rites for the patron deities, geni locii, and other appropriate deities. Likewise, the daily routine is also performed before the lararium
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2010  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Salve Julia,

Um, um, gangsta rap????? Let's see ...first, Aeternia tries to turn me into a metal enthusiast (not altogether unsuccessfully), and now you want me to be a gangsta rap ...aficionado? OK, but only under 1 condition. It has to be in Latin, so I can ...practice, OK? (with my luck, a group has done just *that*, but if so, please, oh, *please* don't tell Julia!, and no, this is *NOT* an appropriate emergency assignment for our Cermo students!)

Meanwhile, yes, I do like drums, and much else musical. BTW, if I'm not mistaken Gilbert and Sullivan never set one of their wonderful operettas in ancient Rome. What a pity! What possibilities missed!

Of course, there *is* "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, but I bet you can't find it for Itunes!

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca, wishing she had an Iphone ...so she could take ..appropriate revenge! (grin)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
> For your information from the horse¹s mouth [Yahoo moderators re delayed
> message delivery:
>
>
> ==============
>
> Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:52 pm (PDT)
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> check out our most recent blog post:
> http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=958
>
> Some messages have been delayed (possibly as many as five days) due to an
> outage on one of our mail machines. We are in the process of sending out the
> delayed messages and expect to catch up in the next few days. You do not have
> to resend any messages.
>
> Thank you for your patience.
>
> ============
>
>
> Valete.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

It occurs to me, that, if you have, and use Skype, there may be times when it would be easier to communicate that way ...not to mention, more enjoyable. so ...if you Skype, you can find me by searching Gaia Maria Caeca ...and, naturally, I am almost always available to Nova Romani!

Vale bene,
Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aeternia Caecae Juliae sal:



We've discovered through trial and error that Caeca is okay with listening
to some Symphonic Metal bands.

Vale,
Aeternia

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:31 PM, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Julia,
>
> Um, um, gangsta rap????? Let's see ...first, Aeternia tries to turn me into
> a metal enthusiast (not altogether unsuccessfully), and now you want me to
> be a gangsta rap ...aficionado? OK, but only under 1 condition. It has to be
> in Latin, so I can ...practice, OK? (with my luck, a group has done just
> *that*, but if so, please, oh, *please* don't tell Julia!, and no, this is
> *NOT* an appropriate emergency assignment for our Cermo students!)
>
> Meanwhile, yes, I do like drums, and much else musical. BTW, if I'm not
> mistaken Gilbert and Sullivan never set one of their wonderful operettas in
> ancient Rome. What a pity! What possibilities missed!
>
> Of course, there *is* "A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, but
> I bet you can't find it for Itunes!
>
> Vale bene,
> C. Maria Caeca, wishing she had an Iphone ...so she could take
> ..appropriate revenge! (grin)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:

>
> Salve!
>
> It occurs to me, that, if you have, and use Skype, there may be times when it would be easier to communicate that way ...not to mention, more enjoyable. so ...if you Skype, you can find me by searching Gaia Maria Caeca ...and, naturally, I am almost always available to Nova Romani!
>
> Vale bene,
> Maria Caeca
>

Salve,

I have skype but you probably don't want to talk to me.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:

>

Salve,

>but that
> is also my piffle of an opinion mind you.

Also, I'm not really interested in your "piffle" opinions. Whether this is an attempt at humility, or self-deprecation, or some kind of passive agressive thing, I don't really care. It's annoying.

If your thoughts are really piffle then I will cease giving them any attention, or serious response.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Anna
>
> <lol> of course it isn't. You parse the law to the facts and it is clear it wasnt followed under Maine state law, and under NR law.
>
> But I know you are in your debating mode so ...
>

Salve,

I'm just stating reality. The laws are interpreted, they are subjective. By your logic we shouldn't have ANY arguments over the laws in NR, yet they consume %75 of the discussions here. Even the word "shall"is debated.


Reality. Get some.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salve Seneca,

I haven't been here long enough to fully evaluate what I have heard first hand
and read in the archives, so I must remain neutral for the time being; although
I have made some basic determinations that I will keep to myself for the time
being.

I must say however that I commend the braveness you display in speaking your
mind so decisively and so early in your citizenship; especially at this
juncture!

I would only question your decision to antagonize one side or the other as
opposed to trying to be a bridge builder between the parties.

I'm not against taking sides when it's necessary but I think it is important to
choose your battles carefully and remember to tread lightly in a burning house.

My prayers are with you my friend.

Vale,

Gaius Octavius Priscus




________________________________
From: Gaius Lucretius Seneca <c.lucretius.seneca@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 4:52:59 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute


C. Lucretius Seneca omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Though I'm a new member, I've been following the list since I first
joined it, back in April or so. I don't have time to read every post,
but I try to at least skim through every message. I have read all
discussions regarding the current political situation thoroughly and
with interest, trying to figure out what's going on, who is being honest
and sincere, and who is not. I now feel that it's time to say what's on
my mind and let the chips fall where they may.

There is a long history here that I was not present to witness, so I
expect there might be some who don't like what I have to say and cite
that as a reason for my conclusions. But I can judge that which I have
been around to see for myself, the words spoken and actions undertaken
by the principle players during my time here.

I cannot verify every last claim made by the Pontifex Maximus and his
supporters, or Consul Albucius and his. But in the last few months,
certain patterns have emerged for me; patterns that support the claims
of one side, and not the other. I've seen questions being asked,
questions I would like answered, ignored when answering would be
inconvenient, rather than discussed openly as part of the conversation.
I've seen the constitution being quoted, but only those clauses which
are useful, contradictory clauses - again - ignored, rather than
disputed. And this behavior appears very one-sided to me.

But worst of all, I see a failure of certain officials to simply DO
THEIR JOB. And here is where I ask myself - is P. Albucius just trying
to do his job as consul? As I see it, yes he is. Is M. Piscinus just
trying to do his job as Pontifex Maximus and Augur? I have to say no.
He seems intent on politicizing his offices, throwing his weight
around. He claims to essentially be above the law. When Consul
Albucius decided to take his own auspices - as he had a legal right to
do - and then botched it, instead of being helpful, the Pontifex Maximus
decided to be vindictive. He tried and convicted the Consul in a secret
court, with no opportunity for the accused to even defend himself. What
was the Consul's crime again? He was standing instead of sitting down?
Frankly, Piscinus doesn't seem to act like most religious leaders I've
ever met.

As far as the other side goes - some would have us believe that L. Sulla
is single-handedly responsible for a mass exodus of Nova Romans. I'll
admit, I find him on occasion to be a bit grating. But I'm not going to
leave just because I find someone here to be obnoxious. Likewise, C.
Cato can be a bit pedantic. But neither of those things makes somebody
wrong, and I can't find fault with their arguments. I hear constantly
about their so-called "lies" but I have yet to see one that I can
verify. Their arguments are met with either an emotional response or
silence, but rarely disputed on the basis of their merits alone.

A case in point: Cato recently posted an idea for a basic Nova Roma law
"refresher course" of some sort for incoming magistrates. It's a great
idea, I can't imagine why anybody would be against it. But instead of
agreeing that it's a good idea, the Pontifex Maximus immediately accused
Cato of wanting to teach this course himself as a way to further his "plot".

I wanted to remain neutral, but I just can't. I'm sick of the paranoia
and persecution emanating from the Pontifex Maximus' office. I think if
anybody here is guilty of disrespecting the Gods of Rome, it's the man
who uses them as a political weapon.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Aquillio Rotae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve Magistra,
>
> Please excuse my unresponsiveness but I already turn in circles here.
>
>
> ATS: Don�t get dizzy...
>
> I just want to let you know how I am pleased to welcome you here and be my
> guest.
>
> ATS: And if Scotty would just come through, I would be delighted to join
> you and the others. Problem is, there is this complicated road trip to be
> endured first...Sancte Christophore, ora pro nobis...sancte Mercuri, ora pro
> nobis...this sounds like such a lovely event, but getting there...
>
> Hope we can somehow help a certain friend of mine out, too...
>
>
> We have at least 4 to 5 Latin Classes coming. The first will arrive at FRI
> morning ca at 11 AM. Just to let you know. Be armed !!! ;-).
>
> ATS: WHAT! Since when are teenagers (or classicists) functional in the
> middle of the night? I need my beauty sleep! What am I supposed to teach
> these troublemakers (er, teenagers, teenagers I mean...)? Some choice
> couplets from a certain sarcastic author?
>
> There will be a few nice looking Soldiers around too. The LEG VI, X and XI
> will be here !!!
>
> ATS: Good. Do they use Latin commands in their drills? Do they doff
> their loricae? ;-) There is a topless Celtic reenactor at Roman Days...he
> does a great job with his slingshots and other intriguing weaponry.
>
> DR Seiler is the president of the Classical Association here and will come on
> Sat for a short speech at arround 11 AM.
> It looks like there might come Dr Phillips of the University of Charleston
> too. I do not now for sure yet. And I do not know if he is married !
>
> ATS: He might run away if he catches sight of us... ;-)
>
>
> But I can asure you the Soldiers are at least not supposed to be married ;-).
>
> ATS: LOL! But I know that some of the legionary reenactors are...
>
> Well however, I guess it will be better frequented than I thought.
>
> ATS: Good. What about the cena Trimalchionis?
>
>
> (swallow).� Since I use to curse Italian a lot under stress, I finally have
> the opportunity to learn some nice Roman ways to do so...will you teach me a
> little ?
>
> ATS: I heard you were talented at that in German as well. Besides,
> German sounds a lot better for that anyway as it is a much harsher language.
> I do know a few expressions in Latin, but they are not the sort of thing that
> we associate with cursing.
>
> BTW, I tried to call you, but the system did not want to let me do so...
>
> Rota
>
> �Vale, et valete.
>
> --- On Fri, 10/1/10, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> > wrote:
>
> From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com> >
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CONVENTUS 8th to 11th
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 6:14 AM
>
> �
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > Salve, Julia, et salvete, omnes!
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > Salve Magistra,
>
>> >
>
>> > ATS: I thought this little soir�e was supposed to start on the 8th...hope
>
>>>> >> > I don�t have to leave a day earlier. A little 900 mile jaunt is bad
>
>>>> >> > enough...when is Scotty gonna get that transporter online?
>
>> >
>
>> > Yes, you are correct, it is from the 8th to the 11th:)
>
>> >
>
>> > ATS2: Good. Hope I can find it, having arrived safely under the
>> tutelage
>
>> > of every deity concerned with travel, from St. Chris to Mercurius to the
>
>> > AAA...
>
>> >
>
>> > Looking forward to seeing you!
>
>> >
>
>> > ATS2: Ditto, assuming that I arrive. And in one piece with my brain
>> and
>
>> > body intact.
>
>> >
>
>> > Well now I have to get back to downloading some gangsta rap for Maria onto
>> my
>
>> > iphone4 *laughs*
>
>> >
>
>> > ATS2: Oh, that�s just the very thing for her! And me! Can�t you find
>
>> > some nice Gilbert and Sullivan, or classical, or acid rock, or
>> be-bop...yunno,
>
>> > good music minus the Tourette vocabulary? Maybe even disco...Vangelis?
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> > (Just kidding Maria but I do hope you like drums and also Alkan [piano by
>
>> > Hamelin of course])...
>
>> >
>
>> > ATS2: Who dey?
>
>> >
>
>> > Well back to doing "stuff."
>
>> >
>
>> > Vale optime amica,
>
>> >
>
>> > Et tu!
>
>> >
>
>> > Julia
>
>> >
>
>> > Vale, et valete!
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus, cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Diis bene iuvantibus sitis

Hodie est ante diem VI Nonas Octobris; haec dies fastus aterque est:

AUC 545 / 208 BCE: The Battle of Baecula, Hispania

"When intelligence was brought to Scipio of the muster of this large (Carthagininan) army, he thought that he could not meet it with his Roman legions unless he employed his native auxiliaries to give an appearance of greater strength. At the same time he felt that he ought not to depend too much upon them, for if they changed sides it might lead to the same disaster as that which had overtaken his father and his uncle. ... His entire army, Romans and allied contingents, infantry and cavalry, amounted now to 55,000 men. With this force he advanced to meet the enemy and took up his position near Baecula." ~ Titus Livius 28.13

"Mago, thinking it a favorable occasion to attack the Romans as they were forming their camp, took most of his own cavalry and Massanissa with his Numidians and charged the camp, being convinced that he would find Scipio off his guard. Scipio, however, had long foreseen what would happen, and had stationed his cavalry, who were equal in number to those of the Carthaginians, concealed behind a hill." ~ Polybius, Histories 11.21.1-2

"While (Scipio's) men were entrenching their camp they were attacked by Mago and Masinissa with the whole of their cavalry and would have been thrown into great disorder had not Scipio made a charge with a body of horse from behind a hill. These speedily routed those of the assailants who had ridden close up to the lines and were actually attacking the entrenching parties; with the others, however, who kept their ranks and were advancing in steady order the conflict was more sustained, and for a considerable time remained undecided. But when the cohorts of light infantry came in from the outposts, and the men at work on the entrenchments had seized their arms and, fresh for action, were in ever increasing numbers relieving their wearied comrades until a considerable body of armed men hastened from the camp to do battle." ~ Titus Livius 28.13

"Surprised by this unexpected attack many of the Carthaginians as they wheeled sharply round at the unexpected sight, lost their seats, but the rest met the enemy and fought bravely. Thrown, however, into difficulties by the dexterity with which the Roman horsemen dismounted, and losing many of their numbers, the Carthaginians gave way after a short resistance. At first they retired in good order, but when the Romans pressed their attacks home and resistance was no longer possible, the squadrons broke and fled as best they could, and they took refuge under their own camp. After this the Romans displayed greater eagerness to engage and the Carthaginians less. However, for several days following they drew up their forces on the level ground between them, and after trying their strength by skirmishing with their cavalry and left infantry, finally resolved on a decisive action." ~ Polybius, Histories 11.21.3-7


"Why were men who were not regularly enlisted, but merely tarrying in the camp, not allowed to throw missiles at the enemy or to wound them?

"This fact Cato the Elder has made clear in one of his letters to his son, fin which he bids the young man to return home if he has completed his term of service and has been discharged; or, if he should p67stay over, to obtain permission from his general to wound or slay an enemy. Is it because sheer necessity alone constitutes a warrant to kill a human being, and he who does so illegally and without the word of command is a murderer? For this reason Cyrus also praised Chrysantas who, when he was about to kill an enemy, and had his weapon raised to strike, heard the recall sounded and let the man go without striking, believing that he was now prevented from so doing. Or must he who grapples with the enemy and fights not be free from accountability nor go unscathed should he play the coward? For he does not help so much by hitting or wounding an enemy as he does harm by fleeing or retreating. He, therefore, who has been discharge from service is freed from military regulations; but he who asks leave to perform the offices of a soldier renders himself again accountable to the regulations and to his general." ~ Plutarch, Roman Questions 39


AUC 696 / 57 BCE: The Senate restored to Cicero his villas on the Palatine, and those at Tusculum and Formias.

When Cicero had left Rome in self-imposed exile, he was fleeing the public embarassment of standing trial for having executed Roman Citizens without a trial, contrary to ancient law. The enimity of Cicero's rival, brought Tribune Clodius Pulcher to raze his house on the Palatine and erect a Temple of Libertas over it. In similar fashion had the Temple of Juno Moneta been built over the house of Manlius. It was therefore that Cicero had to argue before the Collegium Pontificum that Clodius had wrongfully dedicated such a temple. The thrust of his argument, firstly, was that Clodius, having had himself adopted into a lower plebeian family in order to run for Tribune, had abandoned the partrician cultus of his family Claudius. Thus he was improperly elected Tribune of the Plebeians, thus he could not have properly passed the plebiscita that confiscated Cicero's property or authorized the construction of a temple on his property. Secondly, Cicero argued that Clodius was guilty of incestum for years earlier having violated the rites of the Bona Dea that had been held in the house of the Pontifex Maximus C. Julius Caesar.


Today's thought is from Epicurus, Vatican Sayings 41:

"At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy."


Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

Salve et Salvete;

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:02 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:
>
> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> > S.P.D.
> >
> > For your information from the horse¹s mouth [Yahoo moderators re delayed
> > message delivery:
> >

I just had one show up on another list, which was sent 9 days ago.

Pax - Venii

Salve et Salvete;

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:51 PM, Belle Morte Statia wrote:
> Aeternia Caecae Juliae sal:
>
> We've discovered through trial and error that Caeca is okay with listening
> to some Symphonic Metal bands.
>
> Vale,
> Aeternia
>

Apocalyptica: Hall of the Mountain King

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2aIVKp1OY

silicis quod volvo longa

Venii

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator

>
> I just had one show up on another list, which was sent 9 days ago.
>
> Ave

I've had about 5 from NR and about 6 from other lists show up dated 5 - 8
days ago. Some posts are now beginning to make sense (I was getting replies
without the original post) and for some reason, I've had about 5 of Anna's
posts arrive today, duplicates of ones I've already got :-). I'm sure it'll
all sort itself out sooner or later.

respectfully
Flavia Lucilla Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et salvete:

"Ancient Roman spa awaits flooding in Turkey"

It appears that this is the site of Galen's hospital, which the
Turkish government is saying does not exist.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g9eQOkPh9OmIDR15g5LDE1e65JXw?docId=CNG.c41a43301a2a0ba462c063759615c08e.101

http://tinyurl.com/2fkmcj7

======================
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator

Salve Venii,

Yes, indeed it is! What time does not destroy, it would seem that stupid, thoughtless, intolerant, arrogant people *will*.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It has happened before. There was a City in Turkey too..if I recall
correctly that was flooded for a dam.

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 8:29 AM, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Venii,
>
> Yes, indeed it is! What time does not destroy, it would seem that stupid,
> thoughtless, intolerant, arrogant people *will*.
>
> Vale bene,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senator,
I'm sure it has ..and will again, in turkey and elsewhere, and it is still a
sad, sad, bit of news.

Respectfully,
C. Maria Caeca

Salve et Salvete;

One comment from the list where I first saw this news report is this
quote from Jalal ad-Din Muḥammad Balkhi, known as Rumi, the great 13th
Century Turkish poet and philosopher.

"The foundation of the world is a mark of the Greeks, the destruction
of that world is reserved for the Turks"

Unfortunate in its prescience.

Vale et Valete - Venator

Ave,

Schoalstica, what kind of drugs are you smoking and why are you not sharing
with the group?

If I recall correctly, Tribune Dexter was working in a senate call.

The issue regarding the consuls is only one facet of what is going on. The
fact that you cannot go beyond the barest of issues is truly unfortunate.

As for your delusional fixation on the BA. It truly is unhealthy for you.
You should see some kind of doctor to get some medication for it. You
forget it was Hortensia, your buddy, that wanted dissolution. Don't try to
revise history here. We have enough people that try to do that. You as a
professor should know better.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:02 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...

> wrote:

>
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > In the event that the senate needs to appoint temporary magistrates
> >
> > ATS: Do you actually think that the Senate will be allowed to meet
> > without being under some kind of cloud? If Albucius vetoes any Senate
> call
> > issued by Quintilianus, and the CP / CA views Albucius as being impius
> and
> > unable to enter the curia, let alone call the Senate, how will we get
> > anywhere? And if Quintilianus decides to veto any call by Albucius, then
> > what? Do you have some magical solution cooked up on the BA? Partition?
> > Dissolution? These do not appeal to me, but someone, somewhere, must give
> in
> > so we can conduct the business of government, however loathsome it might
> be to
> > some of the citizens and socii.
> >
> >
> > I would like to volunteer my service and time to assist in the need and
> > requirement to certify the upcoming elections in nova Roma.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:28 PM, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...<livia.plauta%40gmail.com>
>
> > <mailto:livia.plauta%40gmail.com <livia.plauta%2540gmail.com>> > wrote:
> >
> >> > L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> > As much as I hate to break my oath of office, I find myself compelled
> to
> >> > resign my office as a Custos, because the current conditions are very
> >> > different from those at the time when I gave my oath.
> >> >
> >> > When I was elected Custos, the understanding was that I was going to
> be one
> >> > of two Custodes, sharing the task of supervising the Diribitores and
> >> > certifying election results, and that elections were going to be held
> via
> >> > the semi-automated system of the NR cista.
> >> >
> >> > After the first few months of activity it became clear that my Custos
> >> > colleague was not to be relied on for any activity except approving
> what I
> >> > had already approved.
> >> >
> >> > Out of the four Diribitores, only two were active: M. Arminius Maior
> and M.
> >> > Moravius Piscinus.
> >> > Another Diribitrix went as far as to count part of the votes durning
> the
> >> > second elections, but then was never heard from again.
> >> >
> >> > M. Moravius Piscinus has been induced to resign by a campaign of
> attacks
> >> > agains his holding a religious and a civilian office at the same time,
> so
> >> we
> >> > are now left with only one reliable diribitor, M. Arminius Maior.
> >> >
> >> > Consul Albucius' veto of the senate session when the money for a
> rehaul of
> >> > the NR censorial database and cista (automated voting system) was
> going to
> >> > be allocated has ensured that there is now no way of running elections
> with
> >> > the old automated system, since we have nobody with both the
> competence and
> >> > the access privileges to run them.
> >> >
> >> > So currently the only possible way to hold elections is by email, a
> very
> >> > unsafe and labour-intensive system.
> >> > In all conscience, I would find myself unable to certify the results
> of
> >> > elections run by email and with one diribitor only, so I tend my
> >> > resignation.
> >> >
> >> > I hope consul P. Memmius Albucius, who prevented the technical
> catastrophe
> >> > affecting NR from being solved, will now take steps to find someone
> else to
> >> > run and certify elections. Maybe he would like to do it himself, since
> he
> >> > seems so fond of accumulating offices, as shown by his obvious
> enjoyment in
> >> > acting as a praetor, office which afforded him the opportunity to get
> rid
> >> of
> >> > Hortensia Maior with a rigged-up trial.
> >> > In any case, good luck to him, and to anyone else who may want to take
> NR
> >> > elections in their hands.
> >> >
> >> > I have to express my excuses to M. Arminius Maior for leaving him
> alone in
> >> > charge of counting votes, and my endless gratitude for being always
> >> > available and reliable as a diribitor.
> >> >
> >> > Optime valete,
> >> > L. Livia Plauta
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Scholastica,

I know others have given you this invitiation, but you are welcome to
subscribe anytime to the BA to see what TRULY goes on there....instead of
idle speculation and flat out lies like you are spreading currently.

Join the BA and see for yourself. You certainly have the guts to spread
rumor and lies...do you have the guts to spread the truth?

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...>wrote:

> Ave,
>
> Schoalstica, what kind of drugs are you smoking and why are you not sharing
> with the group?
>
> If I recall correctly, Tribune Dexter was working in a senate call.
>
> The issue regarding the consuls is only one facet of what is going on. The
> fact that you cannot go beyond the barest of issues is truly unfortunate.
>
> As for your delusional fixation on the BA. It truly is unhealthy for you.
> You should see some kind of doctor to get some medication for it. You
> forget it was Hortensia, your buddy, that wanted dissolution. Don't try to
> revise history here. We have enough people that try to do that. You as a
> professor should know better.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:02 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
> fororom@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
>> S.P.D.
>> >
>> >
>> > Ave!
>> >
>> > In the event that the senate needs to appoint temporary magistrates
>> >
>> > ATS: Do you actually think that the Senate will be allowed to meet
>> > without being under some kind of cloud? If Albucius vetoes any Senate
>> call
>> > issued by Quintilianus, and the CP / CA views Albucius as being impius
>> and
>> > unable to enter the curia, let alone call the Senate, how will we get
>> > anywhere? And if Quintilianus decides to veto any call by Albucius, then
>> > what? Do you have some magical solution cooked up on the BA? Partition?
>> > Dissolution? These do not appeal to me, but someone, somewhere, must
>> give in
>> > so we can conduct the business of government, however loathsome it might
>> be to
>> > some of the citizens and socii.
>> >
>> >
>> > I would like to volunteer my service and time to assist in the need and
>> > requirement to certify the upcoming elections in nova Roma.
>> >
>> > Vale
>> >
>> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >
>> > Vale, et valete.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:28 PM, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...<livia.plauta%40gmail.com>
>>
>> > <mailto:livia.plauta%40gmail.com <livia.plauta%2540gmail.com>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> > L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
>> >> >
>> >> > As much as I hate to break my oath of office, I find myself compelled
>> to
>> >> > resign my office as a Custos, because the current conditions are very
>> >> > different from those at the time when I gave my oath.
>> >> >
>> >> > When I was elected Custos, the understanding was that I was going to
>> be one
>> >> > of two Custodes, sharing the task of supervising the Diribitores and
>> >> > certifying election results, and that elections were going to be held
>> via
>> >> > the semi-automated system of the NR cista.
>> >> >
>> >> > After the first few months of activity it became clear that my Custos
>> >> > colleague was not to be relied on for any activity except approving
>> what I
>> >> > had already approved.
>> >> >
>> >> > Out of the four Diribitores, only two were active: M. Arminius Maior
>> and M.
>> >> > Moravius Piscinus.
>> >> > Another Diribitrix went as far as to count part of the votes durning
>> the
>> >> > second elections, but then was never heard from again.
>> >> >
>> >> > M. Moravius Piscinus has been induced to resign by a campaign of
>> attacks
>> >> > agains his holding a religious and a civilian office at the same
>> time, so
>> >> we
>> >> > are now left with only one reliable diribitor, M. Arminius Maior.
>> >> >
>> >> > Consul Albucius' veto of the senate session when the money for a
>> rehaul of
>> >> > the NR censorial database and cista (automated voting system) was
>> going to
>> >> > be allocated has ensured that there is now no way of running
>> elections with
>> >> > the old automated system, since we have nobody with both the
>> competence and
>> >> > the access privileges to run them.
>> >> >
>> >> > So currently the only possible way to hold elections is by email, a
>> very
>> >> > unsafe and labour-intensive system.
>> >> > In all conscience, I would find myself unable to certify the results
>> of
>> >> > elections run by email and with one diribitor only, so I tend my
>> >> > resignation.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope consul P. Memmius Albucius, who prevented the technical
>> catastrophe
>> >> > affecting NR from being solved, will now take steps to find someone
>> else to
>> >> > run and certify elections. Maybe he would like to do it himself,
>> since he
>> >> > seems so fond of accumulating offices, as shown by his obvious
>> enjoyment in
>> >> > acting as a praetor, office which afforded him the opportunity to get
>> rid
>> >> of
>> >> > Hortensia Maior with a rigged-up trial.
>> >> > In any case, good luck to him, and to anyone else who may want to
>> take NR
>> >> > elections in their hands.
>> >> >
>> >> > I have to express my excuses to M. Arminius Maior for leaving him
>> alone in
>> >> > charge of counting votes, and my endless gratitude for being always
>> >> > available and reliable as a diribitor.
>> >> >
>> >> > Optime valete,
>> >> > L. Livia Plauta
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca M. Valeriae Messallinae S. P. D.

Thank you, Amica, for you most kind words! Poets, even those who merely attempt to lustrous art thrive on praise! (smile).

CMC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes,

Sodde Driables deppedde Schbitsiach wia dui Arschgaigagsichdr S&C senedr
ledschd Aaschaum Flachkebf on masoddse ends ihrige Lombagsichd traeta
von fria bis schbaeds.

Rota

Fr dia zwoi schmodzbriglsegglgrombiraschdengbolla Sulla & Cato.


Rota

--- On Sat, 10/2/10, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

From: Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Amol ens Gsiechd nei daetschd
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 7:16 PM







 









Salvete Omnes,



Sodde Driables deppedde Schbitsiach wia dui Arschgaigagsichdr S&C senedr

ledschd Aaschaum Flachkebf on masoddse ends ihrige Lombagsichd traeta

von fria bis schbaeds.



Rota

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gribbl

Rota

--- On Sat, 10/2/10, Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:

From: Aqvillivs Rota <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Dia Furdsglemmer schnallads koi ell
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 7:36 PM







 









Fr dia zwoi schmodzbriglsegglgrombiraschdengbolla Sulla & Cato.



Rota



--- On Sat, 10/2/10, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:



From: Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...>

Subject: [Nova-Roma] Amol ens Gsiechd nei daetschd

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Date: Saturday, October 2, 2010, 7:16 PM



 



Salvete Omnes,



Sodde Driables deppedde Schbitsiach wia dui Arschgaigagsichdr S&C senedr



ledschd Aaschaum Flachkebf on masoddse ends ihrige Lombagsichd traeta



von fria bis schbaeds.



Rota



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:

>
> Salve,
>
> Anna we disagree, our perspectives are different, you haven't convinced me
> at all nor have I convinced you, you are right lets not continue this
> discussion

It was not my goal to convince anyone of anything. All I did was answer your piffle questions, and reply to your comments. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken your bait, I'll remember for next time.


I'm sick of feeding your pathetic attempt at angst. You wanna
> pull the Ice Queen sniping from the Igloo act, please continue but people
> think you are Trolling and even I am more inclined to agree.


I do not attempt anything except answering your questions. I would advise you not to ask questions if you don't want to know the answers. If answering questions constitutes trolling now, I guess most of NR are trolls.

I'm not an Ice Queen, I'm just honest. I know some of you prefer fake pleasentries and butt-kissing, I don't. I also don't say something offensive and try to mitigate it with "I'm not trying to offend", as if that makes it all better.


I don't
> understand why people feel the need to "watch the train wreck" if I was that
> unhappy in an organization I would either do something about it or simply
> walk away and move on with my life, but as you can tell not everyone thinks
> alike.
>

I did both. When I was in NR I attempted to do something about what I saw were problems. Once I realized people could get on the board of directors through extortion, I walked away and moved on with my life.



> I thought you a better individual despite what others have said,

No you didn't. You want to pretend this so you can say exactly what you said above. I have not changed one iota since joining Nova Roma. If you actually thought I was a better individual then you should continue to think this because nothing I have said or done is different. I have always been opinionated, argumentative, and blunt with a keen sense of BS-detection.


> I am sorry
> to have been so wrong, maybe I did learn something afterall.

I bet.


One day
> hopefully you'll find a medium Anna.
>

A medium for what?


Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:

>
> I believe the old admonition, lead, follow or get out of the way is appropriate.
>
> You have a lot to offer Anna, I've seen it elsewhere.
>

Salve,

I totally agree. I doubt any court of law would've even let the lawsuit contiue, let alone find him in favour. If that had been the sole problem I would've stayed. But the thing is, this stuff builds up over time. The pay off to cassius, the idiotic fake trials, the drama filled politics, etc. Sulla's straw broke the camel's back, as it were.

I am just too stubborn to return as long as the Sulla remains. I would prefer a new NR org, or remain sniping from the sidelines, than to beg for my citizenship to be reinstated after a 90 day waiting period only to have to deal with such a terrible character. I don't think I could ever be in an organization that would have him as a member. It's the principle of the matter. Even if I were a citizen again I would be taking many respites from this place, as some have done(and are currently doing).

One shouldn't have to to take vacations from NR to be in NR.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

C. Mariae Caeca A. Tullia Scholastica, Senatrici, L. Cornelio Sullae Felici
Senatorique S. P. D.

Scholastica, Amica, As I remember things (and no, I have not checked the
archives, which is difficult for me at the best of times), M. Hortensia
Maior was, indeed the first to mention dissolution, supported almost
immediately by former cives Anna Bucci. The proposal of partition was
presented by Octavius Gracchus (sp?) simultaneously on the Main List and the
Backalley. Interestingly, the reaction on the BA mirrored that here ...some
strongly in favor, some strongly against. Nothing got "cooked up" on the
BA, but, naturally, it did get discussed, as it did here.

As to the upcoming Senate meeting ...I certainly wish Dexter Tribune
success, but I expect that if he does convene the Senate, one of several
things will happen, immediately.

1. Albucius Consul will veto the session.
2. Quintilianus Consul will veto the session.
3. Piscinus Pontifex maximus will find some religeous reason that the
session cannot be held.
Piscanus, Auger Maior, will either say that the session is impossible
because the auspices are bad, or find another reason for stopping the
session.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but you express, I think, and accurately,
the level of frustration that many citizens feel.

Sulla Felix Senator, you are proud of your list, with good reason, and you
object to seeing it judged harshly and erroneously, which I fully
understand, having become quite defensive about my own little list. So,
before I address your response to Scholastica, (which I fully intend to do),
I would like to speak of the Backalley to everyone, for just a minute.

I've been there for a couple of years, and I've seen everything from people
acting like ravening wolves, to the same people discussing sensitive topics
with intelligence, thoughtfulness, and fine scholarship, to people sharing
music, videos, quips, jokes, and having a grand time. The atmosphere there
is different than here, entirely, but its purpose is also entirely
different. True, everything and anything can, and has happened, and I have
seen the owners put an end to things when they got too confrontational or
abusive, though that line is way different there than here, as it should be.
Are there personal attacks against individuals who aren't subscribed? Yes.
People vent, and, frankly, there should be a safe place to vent. Are there
plots to overthrow NR there? No, not that I have ever seen, and I read
pretty much everything. There was a discussion of the Civil war in 1999?
and some theoretical speculation as to how, given the structure of our
virtual presence, one might be conducted now, and if I remember correctly,
the conclusion was that since there are so many lists and ways of
communicating, it would be virtually impossible.

However, and*this* is important, some of the same people who speculated
informally *also* have fought tooth and nail to keep this Res Publica
together. I interpreted what I read as nothing more than the healthy
criticism of the Government, of the regime in power, and of current (well,
then current) events. In short, things in the BA can get very ugly, very
interesting, and, sometimes, very wonderful. I have read things there that
horrified me because of their needless viciousness, and I have, on rare
occasions, responded to some of those things, for personal reasons (and no,
I was *NOT* under attack), but I have also seen people demonstrate care and
support for other members, there, as well.

Now, Sulla Senator. Had you responded only so what Senatrix Scholastica
*said*, I would have posted none of this, since debating issues, even
heatedly, is fair game. But in my opinion, you crossed that line by making
your responses personal, condescending, and vicious. Then you invited her
to join your list, and offered more personal insults. Had I been addressed
so, I'm not sure whether I would have burst out laughing, or thrown your
invitation back at you (hard with electrons, I know), but I rather suspect
you have insured that Scholastica will *never* join the BA. I certainly
would not have, had I been invited to do so publicly, in such a way.


Valete,
C. Maria Caeca

Caeca Varo sal,

Actually, no ...but I will, soon as I can find it in audible format (smile). However, I did read Robert Harris's 2 books on Cicero (also fiction), and heard an interview with him on NPR, and I enjoyed those books considerably. BTW, isn't Taylor Caldwell a pseudonym for a famous romance fiction author ...um ..Victoria Holt, maybe? I've read other historical novels by her, though, and enjoyed them thoroughly, so I would guess that this will be a good read, if nothing else.

Vale quam optime,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Varro.



I've read "A Pillar of Iron" a number of times since childhood, when it was
published, and although it seems well-intended, its accuracy leaves
something to be desired. Better Harris' s books or McCullough's.



Taylor Caldwell was a famous novelist of the mid-20th century, who wrote
"Dear and Glorious Physician," "Captains and the Kings" and other
history-based books. Her pen names were "Marcus Holland," "J. Miriam Reback"
and "Max Reiner."



Vale,

L. Aemilia Mamerca



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Terry
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 5:54 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Literary opinions





C. Terentius Varro s.p.d.

I'm sure some on this list have read Taylor Caldwell's novel "A Pillar of
Iron," which is based on the life of Cicero. What did you think of it? I'd
be interested to hear opinions.

Optime valete.

Varro





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mamerca,

thank you! Obviously, I had Caldwell confused with someone else! She spins a good yarn, but historical accuracy definitely takes 2nd place to story telling, where she is concerned.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca, whose favorite Caldwell book wasn't historical, exactly, and was entitled "Grandmother and the Priests" and was a compilation of stories told by several priests from England, Ireland, and Scotland, at her grandmother's dinner table.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeca, amica,



When I was a kid, I thought "Pillar" was just the greatest thing, if only
because it was about Rome. Reading history solved that, of course, but the
great thing about the better-researched novels is that if they really grab
your interest, they also hold it. I didn't read McCullough's "First Man in
Rome" for the longest time because I expected another "Pillar," but was
pleasantly surprised. Granted, McCullough does take liberties, but I found
that she does inspire additional scholarship/critical thinking, and that
alone is worth the read.



Vale,

L. Aemilia





_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of C.Maria Caeca
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:39 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Literary opinions





Salve Mamerca,

thank you! Obviously, I had Caldwell confused with someone else! She spins a
good yarn, but historical accuracy definitely takes 2nd place to story
telling, where she is concerned.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca, whose favorite Caldwell book wasn't historical, exactly, and
was entitled "Grandmother and the Priests" and was a compilation of stories
told by several priests from England, Ireland, and Scotland, at her
grandmother's dinner table.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mamerca,

Yes, McCullough takes liberties ...but she also can inspire a reader to further research. For me (and I devoured that whole series), she brings famous people to life in ways I'd never seen before. People like Caesar and Cicero, and Gaius Marius, and others, took on life for me, and stopped being names in history books. I'm no scholar, and, for me to really appreciate the pageant of history, I find it very helpful to be able to relate to the actors in human terms, and McCullough's books helped me to do that. I do like my historical fiction well documented and basically historically accurate, but I'll forgive "authorial license" *if* the book is well written enough, the characters engaging enough, and the writer provides a good bibliography for those who want to do further research 9smile).

Vale quam optime,
Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeca,



Precisely. Frankly, though I find the last couple of novels written with
less passion than the earlier ones, McCullough is an inspiration. Her
characterizations - clever Scaurus, comic-wise Rutilius Rufus,
scheming-but-human Servilia, the sad-ended hero Gaius Marius, etc. - really
strike you as plausible. You know, Roman portraiture so excelled at
warts-and-all humanity. McCullough is a worthy successor, IMHO.



Optime vale,

L. Aemilia



(Okay, okay, so she conflicts with historians on the Rabirius trial . . .)

_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of C.Maria Caeca
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:06 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Literary opinions





Salve Mamerca,

Yes, McCullough takes liberties ...but she also can inspire a reader to
further research. For me (and I devoured that whole series), she brings
famous people to life in ways I'd never seen before. People like Caesar and
Cicero, and Gaius Marius, and others, took on life for me, and stopped being
names in history books. I'm no scholar, and, for me to really appreciate the
pageant of history, I find it very helpful to be able to relate to the
actors in human terms, and McCullough's books helped me to do that. I do
like my historical fiction well documented and basically historically
accurate, but I'll forgive "authorial license" *if* the book is well written
enough, the characters engaging enough, and the writer provides a good
bibliography for those who want to do further research 9smile).

Vale quam optime,
Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mamerca,

Oh, but ...The October Horse had me in tears! I'll admit my eyes glazed at some of the battle descriptions ...a warrior I am *not*, but ...when she dealt with our chosen ancestors as people ...warts and all ...she did it *so* well that there are scenes and snippets from those books which still haunt my thoughts and dreams, and yes, C. Julius Caesar is one of those portraits that ...engaged me, to such a degree that I, A. read everything I could find in an accessible format about him, and B. Realized the depth of the impact when I saw an ancient bust of him displayed in a museum. I won't go into that ..but the reaction was intense and visceral.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca, who thinks that anything that brings the ancients to life and relevance for us, now, 2000 years later, is eminently worth consideration.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aeternia Tiberio Paulino sal:


Errr... yes and no... I believe the fee to stand for Office say that of Consul should be that amount, but the other offices I believe the fee should be lesser.

A monetary scale could be set up. This is all going on the basis of Paulinus' suggestion in a completely hypothetical theory.

I was going to say more but my brain is refusing to completely function, its friday you all know how this goes..

Vale Bene,
Aeternia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salvete
>
> If we ever have elections again, when we repeal some laws we need to adopt a Lex on those who resign from office.
>
> Either we need a fee to stand for office , say $50.00 which a person gets back if they serve the full turn or we need to bar a person who resigns
> from holding office for a set number of years. Exceptions for illness and other REAL macro world would be included.
>
>
> Valete
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve, Caeca,



IÂ’ve always loved Caesar and blame him in large part for my obsession with
Rome. Liked “October Horse” too, but thought you could feel some of the
passion go out of McCulloughÂ’s writing after the assassination.



And I agree with you completely about those scenes and snippets. They do
grab you.



Vale bene,

L. Aemilia

(who wishes she would go back and write about the pre-Gracchi days.)



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of C.Maria Caeca
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:38 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE:, [Nova-Roma] Literary opinions





Salve Mamerca,

Oh, but ...The October Horse had me in tears! I'll admit my eyes glazed at
some of the battle descriptions ...a warrior I am *not*, but ...when she
dealt with our chosen ancestors as people ...warts and all ...she did it
*so* well that there are scenes and snippets from those books which still
haunt my thoughts and dreams, and yes, C. Julius Caesar is one of those
portraits that ...engaged me, to such a degree that I, A. read everything I
could find in an accessible format about him, and B. Realized the depth of
the impact when I saw an ancient bust of him displayed in a museum. I won't
go into that ..but the reaction was intense and visceral.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca, who thinks that anything that brings the ancients to life
and relevance for us, now, 2000 years later, is eminently worth
consideration.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Mamerca,

I share your wish!!!!!

Vale bene,
Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Omnes,

October 28th - 31st there will be Conventus/Founders Meeting taking place in
Vermont/New Hampshire. A number of us will be attending there....

Events will include Group Dinner :)

Weapons - in particular gun shooting. Since many of us are going to
Vermont armed. ;)

And general good times, good discussions and good people.

The specifics are still being worked out but already confirmed attending
are:

Sulla
Palladius - Hence Founder
Metellus
Audens
Vedius - hence Founder
Cassius - hence Founder
Gualterus Graecus

Hopefully many others will be attending!

If anyone wants information regarding this event - please email me privately
or just respond and we will try to answer any questions.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete C. Octavi et Quirites omnes

Certain individuals feel that they are privileged and thus that leges passed by the majority do not apply to them. Cincinnatus was one such individual. At the beginning of Nova Roma, the First Civil saw a dictator appointed by the Senate to throw Cincinnatus out of his office as Consul. He had been a problem long ago, and continued to be so afterward. As a Pontifex he was one of those who denied voting privileges to some Sacerdotes in the Collegium Pontificum, in spite of what the Constitution says. One of my first proposals as Pontifex Maximus restored those voting privileges to Flamines and Vestales Virgines. As an augur, years earlier Cincinnatus had abused his office to prevent Consul Quintilianus, during his first term, from passing his legislation. This is what the minority faction now accuses the three augures of doing as Albucius tries to go around the Collegium Augurum.

Cincinnatus refused to recognize the authority of the Collegia to appoint sacerdotes whom he disliked whenever he was out-voted. Thus he came to refuse to allow a Pontifex to subscribe to the Collegium list. He refused to recognize another Augur as his colleague or allow him to subscribe to that Collegium's list. The dispute went on for some years. Finally the Senate considered issues about several lists, including some of the lists for the Collegia. After the Senate passed a senatus consultum, a Consul, myself, issued edicta to enforce the Senate's decision. Cincinnatus refused to recognize the Senate's authority or the authority of the Consules, T. Iulius Sabinus and myself.

Since Cincinnatus still refused to allow Modianus to subscribe to the collegia lists for which he was entitled, Modianus filed a claim with the Praetores to attain his rights. I, as Consul, made a separate claim before the Praetors to attain access for all Senators, as had been done with other lists. Before Albucius came along, no consul held authority to hold a trial, and no Consul ever usurped such authority as has Albucius. This was due to a ruling of the Tribuni Plebis, me, at the request of Ti. Galerius Paulinus. The second claim against Cincinnatus was similar to the private claim by Modianus, but had a wider scope in that it concerned Senate access to lists and their archives that rightly belong to the Collegia and not to any one individual. The Senate is also the Board of Directors of NR, Inc. and thus must be allowed access to official lists that they oversee.

Cincinnatus next refused to recognize the authority of the Praetors and would not attend his tribunal, but finally agreed that Ti. Galerius Paulinus could represent him. He had a hearing, a defense was offered on his behalf. All but one iudices voted for conviction, and none voted in his favor. For refusing to appear, the Praetor next issued a fine. As Cincinnatus lost his assiduus status, the Collegium Pontificum then took up the issue and removed him from his sacerdotal offices. His tribunal had no authority to remove him from sacerdotal offices then, as tribunals do not now have such authority inder the Constitution, so it had to be addressed separately.

Tell me, what do the Twelve Tablets have to say when a citizen does not answer a call from the Praetor to appear at his tribunal? How do judges in your country deal with obstinent defendants who refuse to appear in court?

Valete
M. Moravius Piscinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Sulla,
>
> And you came across nothing about why a defense was not presented?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 5:16:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute
>
> Ave,
>
> Sure, I base it on what I have read from the ML, the Tribunal list, and
> other email lists that discussed the trial. Then I got information from
> first hand accounts from individuals who participated. You should do
> likewise. The trial was a travesty, if any US trial was conducted in such a
> way it would make the justice system look like Gore v Bush times 1000!!!
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Jean Courdant <jeancourdant@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salve Sulla,
> >
> > Pardon this question if I has a judgmental tone to it, it is not meant to
> > be so,
> > I am just trying to understand, but if you were not around during this time
> > how
> > can you characterize what happened to Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus as
> > persecution? What are you basing that on?
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...<robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>
> > >
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 4:57:58 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute
> >
> > Ave,
> >
> > You are going to want someone to answer that question who took part of the
> > trial. I had not yet returned to NR at that point. Senator Paulinus or
> > Senator Caesar would be better to speak in this subject area.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Jean Courdant
> ><jeancourdant@...<jeancourdant%40yahoo.com>
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Sulla,
> > >
> > > During the trial of Cincinnatus, why was no defense offered?
> > >
> > > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/MMDCCLXI
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Gaius Octavius Priscus
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Robert Woolwine
> <robert.woolwine@...<robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>
> > <robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > Sent: Wed, September 22, 2010 2:33:37 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute
> > >
> > > Ave!
> > >
> > > Yep. This has been the prevailing trend since the persecution and trial
> > of
> > > Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur and Founder Marcus Cassius Iulianus and
> > > true Pontifex Maximus.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Sulla
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
> > > gn_iulius_caesar@... <gn_iulius_caesar%40yahoo.com><gn_iulius_caesar%
> > 40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Salve Mamerca.
> > > >
> > > > It won't stop because the objective clearly stated according to
> > Piscinus
> > > in
> > > > his screed is partition or expulusions. I am afraid you will have to
> > > accept
> > > > that he intends to continue this conflict to the bitter end, using
> > every
> > > > means at his disposal, and with that as a clearly stated objective no
> > one
> > > in
> > > > the opposing faction will cease resisting attempts at expulsion and
> > many
> > > > will resist partition of NR.
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene
> > > > Caesar
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 9/22/10, Lyn <ldowling@... <ldowling%40cfl.rr.com>
> > ><ldowling%40cfl.rr.com><ldowling%
> > > 40cfl.rr.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Lyn <ldowling@... <ldowling%40cfl.rr.com> <ldowling%
> > 40cfl.rr.com> <ldowling%
> >
> > > 40cfl.rr.com>>
> > >
> > > > Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute
> > > >
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com> <Nova-Roma%
> >
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2010, 12:21 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Salvete omnes,
> > > >
> > > > I've been largely quiet in the past several weeks, somewhat
> > overwhelmed,
> > > as
> > > > a relatively new citizen, by the constant back-and-forth, the endless
> > > > bickering. It is mind numbing. So let me echo my esteemed friend Cn.
> > > > Lentulus once more: Enough!
> > > >
> > > > I don't care any more either. Just stop.
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > > L. Aemilia Mamerca
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> > > > Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com> <Nova-Roma%
> >
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> > >
> > > > Of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 11:46 AM
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com> <Nova-Roma%
> >
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cn. Lentulus pontifex M. Piscino pontifici maximo et P. Memmio consuli
> > > > Quiritibusque salutem plurimam dicit:
> > > >
> > > > Forgive me, honored cives, but I shall be a bit more outspoken than I
> > > like
> > > > to be or than it is respectful and Roman from a young citizen, but
> > that's
> > > > what I can and what I must say reading these debates.
> > > >
> > > > I do not care who is right, who is wrong, I do not care any longer
> > which
> > > > party wins: I say ENOUGH. I'm fed up with the frozen status of NR
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > the unability of those involved to close this "Debate", the "Second
> > Civil
> > > > War".
> > > >
> > > > Enough, and enough.
> > > >
> > > > If we were in a physical place, at this point, I would close consul P.
> > > > Memmius and pontifex maximus M. Piscinus into a room, locked very
> > firmly,
> > > > and I would not allow them out of the room until a compromise is made
> > and
> > > > an
> > > > agreement is accepted on how to proceed. But, since I can not do this,
> > I
> > > > just say out loud that it's enough with the "dispute".
> > > >
> > > > I will be very honest with you Quirites: I found myself many times in
> > > > agreement with M. Piscinus pontifex maximus, and I found myself fewer
> > > times
> > > > in disagreement with him. At those times and in those questions in
> > which
> > > I
> > > > had agreed with his approaches and viewpoints, I was vocal and open in
> > > this
> > > > forum to tell people what I think - but I do no longer mind if what I
> > > think
> > > > a right approach to religious question is upheld or not: I do only care
> > > > about our Republic because THE REPUBLIC IS OUR RELIGION. And the
> > Republic
> > > > suffers because of the "civil war". It is the "war" which is a killer
> > of
> > > > Nova Roma, and this "war", therefore, must end, very quickly, and I
> > care
> > > no
> > > > longer with what kind of result: if Nova Roma survives - WE have won.
> > > >
> > > > So, from now on, I do no longer support anything that feeds the ongoing
> > > > conflicts - even if in my personal opinion I am convinced otherwise. I
> > > will
> > > > support only one kind of policy: which puts an end to the civil war as
> > > soon
> > > > as possible, and in a totally, fully and unquestionably legal way.
> > > >
> > > > VIVAT NOVA ROMA IN AETERNUM!
> > > >
> > > > --- Mer 22/9/10, marcushoratius
> > > <MHoratius@... <MHoratius%40hotmail.com> <MHoratius%
> > 40hotmail.com><MHoratius%40hotmail.com>
> > > > <mailto:MHoratius%40hotmail.com <MHoratius%2540hotmail.com><MHoratius%
> > 2540hotmail.com> <MHoratius%
> >
> > > 2540hotmail.com>> > ha scritto:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Salve Quirites
> > > >
> > > > The dispute that divides the Senate is easily explained, although how
> > we
> > > > arrived at this point is much more complicated.
> > > >
> > > > On the one side there is Consul Quintilianus, two-thirds of the Senate,
> > > the
> > > > Collegium Pontificum, the Collegium Augurum, and most of our
> > magistrates
> > > > and
> > > > tribuni plebi who support the Constitution and the religio Romana as
> > our
> > > > state religion. Our opponents call the majority "TPTB" or "the
> > > government."
> > > > Why do I say they are a two-thirds majority? Because two-thirds of the
> > > > Senate voted to appoint a dictator to resolve more important issues
> > than
> > > > the
> > > > false issues now posed by Cato and Sulla. The majority coalition is
> > > > composed
> > > > of a diverse group who respect the mos maiorum and Nova Roma's
> > > > institutions.
> > > > They hold nearly every magisterial office because they are supported by
> > a
> > > > majority of the comitia during elections.
> > > >
> > > > But there is always a minority faction in any organization, and these
> > > have
> > > > since joined with some others behind Consul Albucius. Albucius proposed
> > > > amending the Constitution in April and was soundly defeated. His aim is
> > > to
> > > > subvert the Constitution and place "civil" authorities over the
> > authority
> > > > of
> > > > the Collegia. As Pontifex Maximus I oppose his attempts and defend the
> > > > constitutional rights, privileges, and powers of our Collegia. Albucius
> > > > poses to remove sacerdotes with which he disagrees by abusing our
> > > judicial
> > > > system - as he did against Flamenica Maior. His allies - Sulla and Cato
> > -
> > > > pose to appoint sacerdotes from outside. That is, the Christian Cato
> > and
> > > > Sulla seek to have non-practitioners of the religio Romana appoint our
> > > > sacerdotes, filling the Collegia with their political cronies. The
> > > cultores
> > > > Deorum oppose non-practitioners choosing the sacerdotes of our
> > religion.
> > > We
> > > > oppose changes to the Constitution that would secularize our res
> > publica.
> > > > And we
> > > > are supported on these issues by other members of our governing bodies
> > > who
> > > > respect our laws and the religio Romana as our State Religion under the
> > > > Constitution. Cato cries out, "we are not a theocracy" where his
> > > intention
> > > > is nothing short of overthrowing our religious institutions.
> > > >
> > > > Albucius, acting in a dictatorial manner, has tried to subvert the
> > > > authority
> > > > of the Collegia. He used invalid auspices to call the Senate and
> > comitia;
> > > > he
> > > > did not take auspices for holding a tribunal; he ignored the
> > instructions
> > > > of
> > > > the Augures as well as ignored the laws regarding the auspices. For his
> > > > actions the Collegium Pontificum made a determination based on a law
> > from
> > > > 2003 that he was impie prudens dolo malo. The Collegia, therefore, do
> > not
> > > > recognize the exercise of his authority as consul unless and until he
> > > > resolves his current status with the Gods by offering piacula and
> > > accepting
> > > > purification under the guidence of Pontifex Lentulus. Being impie, he
> > is
> > > > impure and polluted. Thus he would pollute any templum he should enter.
> > > > Therefore, until purified, he may not enter any templum, he may not
> > hold
> > > a
> > > > session of the Senate, call a comitia to assemble, hold a tribunal, or
> > so
> > > > much as enter, speak at, or vote in a Senate session or a comitia or
> > > > tribunal as all these are required by law to take place within a
> > templum
> > > > and
> > > > under valid auspices.
> > > >
> > > > And now, because the Collegia do not recognize his authority, Albucius
> > > > proclaims that he does not recognize the authority of the Collegia.
> > Well,
> > > > he
> > > > never has recognized the authority of the Collegia or he would not be
> > in
> > > > this situation now. He has also tried to dictate to the Collegia that
> > it
> > > > remove members who oppose his ambition to secularize Nova Roma's
> > > > institutions. He once more Albucius shows his true colors, as no consul
> > > has
> > > > constitutional authority to dictate to the Collegia who they should
> > > appoint
> > > > or dismiss.
> > > >
> > > > Sulla and others plotted a "coup," a "revolution," a "civil war" - all
> > > > terms
> > > > they ised for their plot. Their plan was to depose duly elected
> > > > magistrates,
> > > > to purge the Senate of their opponents, to depose sacerdotes duly
> > > adlected
> > > > by the Collegia, to fill the Collegia with their own appointees - even
> > > > though they are not cultores Deorum or practitioners of the religio
> > > Romana.
> > > > They failed in their coup since the majority, by electing a dictator,
> > > > showed
> > > > that we stand together to oppose such a silly and irresponsible plot.
> > The
> > > > minority has since tried to pose that the majority faction attempted a
> > > > coup.
> > > > A two-thirds majority of the Senate, and the vast majority of our
> > > > magistrates, and both Collegia attempted a coup? Just who was the
> > > > government
> > > > trying to overthrow? Itself? Sulla and Cato distort the truth.
> > > >
> > > > Who has called for partitioning Nova Roma? Who has tried to harm Nova
> > > Roma
> > > > by filing complaints against our corporation with state authorities?
> > Who
> > > > has
> > > > slandered and abused our female senatrices and sacerdotes with
> > > vulgarities
> > > > and obscenities? Who advocated that magistrates disobey our laws, who
> > has
> > > > encouraged Albucius to defy the authority of Collegia, who distorts the
> > > > facts now? Who now are the ones who are the real cause of so much
> > strife
> > > in
> > > > our Res Publica that they have brought it to a brink of destruction?
> > > >
> > > > We are divided. We no longer recognize the authority of one another.
> > > Sulla
> > > > is proposing a schism with a fake Collegium Pontificum established by
> > > > non-practitioners and a rump portion of the Senate. He has caused a
> > > "civil
> > > > war," in a sense, that can only end when one side has expelled the
> > > leaders
> > > > of the other or a partition is effected by some more peaceful
> > compromise.
> > > >
> > > > Valete optime et vadete in pace Deorum
> > > >
> > > > M. Moravius Piscinus
> > > >
> > > > Pontifex Maximus
> > > >
> > > > Magister Collegii Augurum
> > > >
> > > > Senator Consularis
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Petronius A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem,

> > ATS: You will have Latin classes if I can find you, and arrive safely...and more of them if Petronius gets his passport in time. ;-)

It is not yet there... now the administration need other papers. French administration is faster to expulse the Roms that to renew my passport.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. IX Kalendas Octobres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius A. Tulliae Scholasticae salutem,
>
>>> > > ATS: You will have Latin classes if I can find you, and arrive
>>> safely...and more of them if Petronius gets his passport in time. ;-)
>
> It is not yet there... now the administration need other papers. French
> administration is faster to expulse the Roms that to renew my passport.
>
> ATS2: Modo Yahoo hoc epistolium misit. Striges Harri Potteri celerius
> volant.
>
> Eheu about your passport. Has it arrived yet? Methought that the Romans
> did a number on the Gauls, not the other way around, but then I am no
> historian. ;-) Trouble is, in your country everything is made as
> complicated as possible, and maybe then they work hard to make it more so.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. IX Kalendas Octobres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Vale, et valete.

>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>
> Ave Scholastica,
>
> I know others have given you this invitiation, but you are welcome to
> subscribe anytime to the BA to see what TRULY goes on there....instead of
> idle speculation and flat out lies like you are spreading currently.
>
> Join the BA and see for yourself. You certainly have the guts to spread
> rumor and lies...do you have the guts to spread the truth?
>

Salve,

When I spread the truth, I was banned from the BA.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

> Ave,
>
> Schoalstica, what kind of drugs are you smoking and why are you not sharing
> with the group?

My dear Sulla, I am deeply grieved to have to inform you that a) I do
not smoke anything whatsoever, and b) having been exposed to various items
in this class strictly environmentally and long ago (secondhand smoke, if
you will), I have determined that I am not subject to any effects from the
likes of C. sativa. Moreover, I do not drink alcoholic beverages, so it
seems that I don't have anything to share with the group--but which group?
BTW, do you share tokes of this sort? The roomies get together and pass the
pipe?

>
> If I recall correctly, Tribune Dexter was working in a senate call.

I believe I heard something about that...after I wrote.

>
> The issue regarding the consuls is only one facet of what is going on.

Oh? And how will a tribune manage to summon the Senate on matters not
concerning the ordo plebeius? Probably Dexter can call the Senate about the
date of the tribunes' entry into office, but I doubt he can get away with
discussing the extremely urgent IT matter. Of course, if we could fix that,
certain parties might not be able exhibit Schadenfreude at the ruin of NR,
and that might distress them.

Are *you* going to convoke the Senate? Will you bring your guns?
Friendly convention, that; have gun, will travel.

> The
> fact that you cannot go beyond the barest of issues is truly unfortunate.

Oh, I think I have gone beyond them, but at times I like to simplify
matters.

>
> As for your delusional fixation on the BA.

I don't have a delusional fixation on the BA.

>It truly is unhealthy for you.

Your concern for my health is touching. When did you go to anything
resembling med school? Are you perhaps an EMT?

> You should see some kind of doctor to get some medication for it.

No; I don't think so. Any decent one would laugh at such a suggestion.

>You
> forget it was Hortensia, your buddy,

Hortensia is my buddy? Since when?

>that wanted dissolution. Don't try to
> revise history here. We have enough people that try to do that.

Oh, it's a popular sport all right. Everywhere.

> You as a
> professor should know better.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla

Valete.

>
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:02 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
>> S.P.D.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ave!
>>>
>>> In the event that the senate needs to appoint temporary magistrates
>>>
>>> ATS: Do you actually think that the Senate will be allowed to meet
>>> without being under some kind of cloud? If Albucius vetoes any Senate
>> call
>>> issued by Quintilianus, and the CP / CA views Albucius as being impius
>> and
>>> unable to enter the curia, let alone call the Senate, how will we get
>>> anywhere? And if Quintilianus decides to veto any call by Albucius, then
>>> what? Do you have some magical solution cooked up on the BA? Partition?
>>> Dissolution? These do not appeal to me, but someone, somewhere, must give
>> in
>>> so we can conduct the business of government, however loathsome it might
>> be to
>>> some of the citizens and socii.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to volunteer my service and time to assist in the need and
>>> requirement to certify the upcoming elections in nova Roma.
>>>
>>> Vale
>>>
>>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> Vale, et valete.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:28 PM, "L. Livia Plauta"
>>> <livia.plauta@...<livia.plauta%40gmail.com>
>>
>>> <mailto:livia.plauta%40gmail.com <livia.plauta%2540gmail.com>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> L. Livia Plauta omnibus S.P.D.
>>>>>
>>>>> As much as I hate to break my oath of office, I find myself compelled
>> to
>>>>> resign my office as a Custos, because the current conditions are very
>>>>> different from those at the time when I gave my oath.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I was elected Custos, the understanding was that I was going to
>> be one
>>>>> of two Custodes, sharing the task of supervising the Diribitores and
>>>>> certifying election results, and that elections were going to be held
>> via
>>>>> the semi-automated system of the NR cista.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the first few months of activity it became clear that my Custos
>>>>> colleague was not to be relied on for any activity except approving
>> what I
>>>>> had already approved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out of the four Diribitores, only two were active: M. Arminius Maior
>> and M.
>>>>> Moravius Piscinus.
>>>>> Another Diribitrix went as far as to count part of the votes durning
>> the
>>>>> second elections, but then was never heard from again.
>>>>>
>>>>> M. Moravius Piscinus has been induced to resign by a campaign of
>> attacks
>>>>> agains his holding a religious and a civilian office at the same time,
>> so
>>>> we
>>>>> are now left with only one reliable diribitor, M. Arminius Maior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consul Albucius' veto of the senate session when the money for a
>> rehaul of
>>>>> the NR censorial database and cista (automated voting system) was
>> going to
>>>>> be allocated has ensured that there is now no way of running elections
>> with
>>>>> the old automated system, since we have nobody with both the
>> competence and
>>>>> the access privileges to run them.
>>>>>
>>>>> So currently the only possible way to hold elections is by email, a
>> very
>>>>> unsafe and labour-intensive system.
>>>>> In all conscience, I would find myself unable to certify the results
>> of
>>>>> elections run by email and with one diribitor only, so I tend my
>>>>> resignation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope consul P. Memmius Albucius, who prevented the technical
>> catastrophe
>>>>> affecting NR from being solved, will now take steps to find someone
>> else to
>>>>> run and certify elections. Maybe he would like to do it himself, since
>> he
>>>>> seems so fond of accumulating offices, as shown by his obvious
>> enjoyment in
>>>>> acting as a praetor, office which afforded him the opportunity to get
>> rid
>>>> of
>>>>> Hortensia Maior with a rigged-up trial.
>>>>> In any case, good luck to him, and to anyone else who may want to take
>> NR
>>>>> elections in their hands.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to express my excuses to M. Arminius Maior for leaving him
>> alone in
>>>>> charge of counting votes, and my endless gratitude for being always
>>>>> available and reliable as a diribitor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Optime valete,
>>>>> L. Livia Plauta
>>>>>

Salve Cato,
you were in Nova Roma long before I joined, so even if you didn't write any
laws yourself you have been here for ages when others, among them many of
your faction, wrote contradictory and unclear laws. Yet the aim of "fixing"
them seems to have gotten some priority for you only after the adversary
faction got the power, and after the return of your buddy Sulla.

In 2009, when I was consular quaestrix, I did the tedious preliminary work
of cross-checking all the NR laws for contradictions, duplicates, etc. I
sent my report to the commission which was supposed to review all the laws
and fix them (and of which, if I remember correctly, you were a member), but
apparently nothing was ever done about them.
I know it's a quite difficult job to write good laws. That's why I never
claimed to be able to do it, unlike some other people (who at the proof of
facts are as unable as I am).

Optime vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 10:34 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why I left Nova Roma !


Cato Liviae sal.

Interesting new concept coming from your mouth.

I have over the past years submitted endless suggestions for cleaning up and
correcting the structure and content of our tabularium. I have been met -
by you, among others - with nothing but derision or by simply being ignored.

I didn't create a single one of these laws. I have worked repeatedly to try
to fix them. So if I'm the one who has been trying to fix them, who are you
now blaming? Yourself, for ignoring me? Others of your..."faction", for
doing the same?

Not one of you has put forth even the idea of a law or set of laws intended
to help clear out this mess. I have.

Blame yourself and your friends.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Anna,
> yes, and it would be better if the people who created the conflicting laws
> in the first place stopped blaming those who have been trying to fix them.
> But that's wishful thinking, right, Anna?
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:21 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why I left Nova Roma !
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Caesar sal.
> >
> > Ah, but if you incorporate for legal purposes you are obliged to act
> > legally,
> > within the bounds of state law.
> >
>
>
> Salve,
>
> Yep. So you better make sure the organizational bylaws don't conflict and
> create idiotic messes.
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Anna Bucci
>

M. Moravius Piscinus Pontifex Maximus Quiritibus cultoribus Deorum et omnibus salutem plurimam dicit: Curate ut valeatis, et Di vos servent.

Hodie dies est ante diem V Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est: Ludi Augustales

AUC 547 / 206 BCE: The Battle of Ilipia, Hispania

For all of the admiration given to Hannibal, the true military genius of the Second Punic War was Publius Cornelius Scipio, who would attain the honorific of Africanus. In Hispania he employed the Roman legions in novel ways, focused on his objective rather than on continuing Roman standard practice. At his finest victory in Hispania, on the plain at Ilipia, his innovations utilized Roman discipline as combined-arms detachments advanced through complex maneuvers to gain the flanks of his enemy's larger line.

"After the strength of each side had been sufficiently tested in these encounters Hasdrubal led out his army to battle, on which the Romans did the same. Each army remained standing in front of its camp, neither caring to begin the fight. Towards sunset the two armies, first the Carthaginian and then the Roman, marched back to camp. This went on for some days; the Carthaginians were always the first to get into line and the first to receive the order to retire when they were tired out with standing. No forward movement took place on either side, no missile was discharged, no battle-shout raised. The Romans were posted in the centre on the one side, the Carthaginians in the centre of the other; the flanks on both armies were composed of Spanish troops. In front of the Carthaginian line were the elephants which looked in the distance like towers. It was generally supposed in both camps that they would fight in the order in which they had been standing, and that the main battle would be between the Romans and Carthaginians in the centre, the principals in the war and fairly matched in courage and in arms. When Scipio found that this was assumed as a matter of course, he carefully altered his dispositions for the day on which he intended to fight. The previous evening he sent a tessera through the camp ordering the men to take their breakfast and see that their horses were fed before daybreak, the cavalry were at the same time to be fully armed with their horses ready, bitted and saddled. Day had scarcely broken when he sent the whole of his cavalry with the light infantry against the Carthaginian outposts, and at once followed them up with the heavy infantry of the legions under his personal command. Contrary to universal expectation he had made his wings the strongest part of his army by posting the Roman troops there, the auxiliaries occupied the centre." ~ Titus Livius 28.14

"On this occasion we see Scipio employing two different stratagems. Observing that Hasdrubal always brought ship troops out of camp at a late hour and drew them up with the Libyans in the centre and the elephants in front of the two wings, and having himself been in the habit of delaying until a later hour and of opposing the Romans to the Libyans in the centre and stationing the Spaniards on his wings, he acted on the day on which he had decided to deliver the decisive battle in a precisely opposite manner, and thus much contributed to the victory of his own army and the discomfiture of the enemy. For as soon as it was light he sent a message by his aides-de camp to all the tribunes and soldiers to take their morning meal and arm themselves and march out of the camp. When this was done, all showing great zeal in carrying out the order, as they suspected what was in the wind, he sent on the cavalry and light infantry with orders to get close up to the enemy's camp and shoot at him boldly, while he himself with his infantry advanced just as the sun was rising, and when he reached the middle of the plain, formed in order of battle, disposing his troops in an order contrary to that which he had previously used, as he placed the Spaniards in the centre and the Romans on the wings. The Carthaginians, upon the enemy's cavalry coming suddenly up to their camp and the rest of his army forming up in full view, scarcely had time to arm themselves. So that Hasdrubal, with his men still fasting, was obliged on the spur of the moment and without any preparation to send off his own cavalry and light infantry to engage those of the enemy on the plain and to draw up his heavy infantry on the level ground at no great distance from the foot of the hill, as was his usual practice. For a certain time the Romans remained inactive, but when, as the day advanced, there was no decisive advantage on either side in the engagement of the light-armed troops, those who were hard pressed always retreating to the shelter of their respective phalanxes and then issuing forth again to resume the combat, Scipio receiving the skirmishers through the intervals between his cohorts distributed them on his wings behind his infantry, placing the velites in front with the horse behind them. At first he made a direct frontal advance, but when at a distance of four stades from the enemy he ordered the Spaniards to continue advancing in the same order but the infantry and cavalry on the right wing to wheel to the right and those of the left wing to wheel to the left. Then taking, himself from the right wing and Lucius Marcius and Marcus Junius from the left, the leading three troops of horse and placing in front of them the usual number of velites and three maniples (this body of infantry the Romans call a cohort), he advanced straight on the enemy at a rapid pace, wheeling in the one case to the left and in the other to the right, the rear ranks always following the direction of the front ones. When they were not far away from the enemy, while the Spaniards, who continued their direct advance, were still at some distance, as they were marching slowly, he fell, as he had originally intended, directly on both wings of the enemy with the Roman forces. The subsequent movements, which enabled the rear ranks to get into the same line as the leading ones and place themselves in a position to attack the enemy, were in contrary directions both as regards the right and left wings and as regards the infantry and cavalry. For the cavalry and light infantry on the right wing wheeling to the right attempted to outflank the enemy, while the heavy infantry wheeled to the left. On the left wing the maniples wheeled to the right and the cavalry and velites to the left. The consequence of this was that the right of the cavalry and light-armed troops on both wings had become their left. But the general, regarding this as of small importance, devoted his intention to the really important object — outflanking the enemy — and he estimated rightly, for a general should, of course, know the actual course of events, but employ those movements which are suited to an emergency.

"In consequence of this attack the elephants, assailed by the missiles of the cavalry and velites and harassed on every side, were suffering much, and doing as much damage to their own side as to the enemy. For in their wild rush they destroyed all, friend or foe, who came in their way. As for the infantry the wings of the Carthaginians were broken, and the centre, where stood the Libyans, the flower of the army, was of no service, as they could neither leave their original position to help those on the wings, for fear of attack by the Spaniards, nor, remaining where they were, could they operate effectively, as the enemy in front of them would not come to blows. The wings, however, kept up a gallant struggle for some time, as each side was aware that all depended on the result of this battle. But when the heat of the day was at its height, the Carthaginians grew faint, as they had not left their camp on their own initiative and had been prevented from preparing themselves properly, while the Romans began to exhibit superior strength and spirit, chiefly because, owing to the foresight of their commander, their choicest troops encountered here the least efficient of the enemy. At first Hasdrubal's men, yielding to the pressure, retired step by step, but later they gave way in a body and retreated to the foot of the hill, and when the Romans pushed their attack home with more violence they fled in rout to their camp. Had not some deity interposed to save them they would have been at once driven out of their entrenchments, but now arose an unprecedented disturbance in the heavens, and such heavy and continuous torrents of rain fell, that the Romans with difficulty made their way back to their own camp." ~ Polybius, Histories 11.22-24

"When the outposts brought intelligence of the enemy's departure Scipio sent on his cavalry and followed with his entire army. Such was the rapidity of the pursuit that had they followed in Hasdrubal's direct track they must have caught him up. But, acting on the advice of their guides, they took a shorter route to the river Baetis, so that they might be able to attack him if he attempted its passage. Finding the river closed to him, Hasdrubal turned his course towards the ocean, and his hurried march, which in its haste and confusion looked like a flight gave him a considerable start on the Roman legions. Their cavalry and light infantry harassed and retarded him by attacking him in flank and rear, and whilst he was continually forced to halt to repel first the cavalry and then infantry skirmishers, the legions came up. Now it was no longer a battle but sheer butchery, until the general himself set the example of flight and escaped to the nearest hills with some 6000 men, many of them without arms. The rest were killed or made prisoners. The Carthaginians hastily improvised an entrenched camp on the highest point of the hills, and as the Romans found it useless to attempt the precipitous ascent, they had no difficulty in making themselves safe. But a bare and sterile height was hardly a place in which to stand even a few days' siege, and there were numerous desertions. At last Hasdrubal sent for ships-he was not far from the sea-and fled in the night, leaving his army to its fate." ~ Titus Livius 28.16

"When everyone congratulated Scipio on having driven the Carthaginians out of Spain and entreated him to rest and take his ease, as he had put an end to the war, he said he considered them happy in having such hopes, 2 but that for his own part now especially the time had come when he had to consider how he should begin the war against Carthage; 3 for up to now the Carthaginians had been making war on the Romans, but now chance had given the Romans the opportunity of making war on the Carthaginians." ~ Polybius, Histories 11.24a.1-3


AUC 711 / 42 BCE: The First Battle of Philippi

Brutus defeated Octavianus, but Marcus Antonius defeated Cassius. The results were therefore indecisive, yet Cassius, in a fit of dispair, committed suicide.

Then Caesar (Octavius) and Antonius transported their armies to Macedonia, and met Brutus and Cassius in battle near the city of Philippi. The wing under the command of Brutus, after defeating the enemy, captured Caesar's camp; for Caesar was performing his duties as commander although he was in the poorest of health, and had been urged not to remain in camp by Artorius his physician, who had been frightened by a warning which had appeared to him in his sleep. On the other hand, the wing commanded by Cassius had been routed and roughly handled, and had retreated with much loss to higher ground. Then Cassius, judging his colleague's success by his own fortune, sent a veteran with instructions to report to him what was the large force of men which was now bearing down in his direction. As the orderly was slow in reporting, and the force approaching at a run was now close, while their identity and their standards could not be recognized for the dust, imagining that the troops rushing on him were those of the enemy, he covered his head with his military cloak and undismayed presented his neck to the sword of his freedman. The head of Cassius had scarcely fallen when the orderly arrived with the report that Brutus was victorious. But when he saw his commander lying prostrate, he uttered the words, "I shall follow him whose death my tardiness has caused," and fell upon his sword. ~ Vellius Patercullus, Roman History 2.70


AUC 772 / 19 CE: Ludi Augustales

These games were private theatrical performances put on for the emperor's family and those families of senators. They took place on the Palatine Hill over the course of a few days, and were only celebrated in the years from 19 CE to 23 CE.


Our thought for today comes from Democritus, Golden Sentences 33:

"Put not confidence in all men, but in those that are worthy; for to do the former is the province of a stupid man, but the latter of a wise man."



Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

_____________________

Cato Liviae sal.

I have been an advocate for legal reform looooong before anything to do with Cornelius Sulla occurred - once again, you need to review the archives from years past before making more erroneous statements.

Yes, I was on the law review committee, and we were going along quite well until I was charged with treason - by one of *your* "buddies"; and one of *your* "buddies" was the consul at the time, so he had the power to introduce the suggestions we were making for consideration - but he didn't. He simply chose to ignore the work the committee was doing.

I have not held an elected office since the praetorship, but rest assured that if I do again, I will do everything in my power to fix this mess.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
> you were in Nova Roma long before I joined, so even if you didn't write any
> laws yourself you have been here for ages when others, among them many of
> your faction, wrote contradictory and unclear laws. Yet the aim of "fixing"
> them seems to have gotten some priority for you only after the adversary
> faction got the power, and after the return of your buddy Sulla.
>
> In 2009, when I was consular quaestrix, I did the tedious preliminary work
> of cross-checking all the NR laws for contradictions, duplicates, etc. I
> sent my report to the commission which was supposed to review all the laws
> and fix them (and of which, if I remember correctly, you were a member), but
> apparently nothing was ever done about them.
> I know it's a quite difficult job to write good laws. That's why I never
> claimed to be able to do it, unlike some other people (who at the proof of
> facts are as unable as I am).
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 10:34 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why I left Nova Roma !
>
>
> Cato Liviae sal.
>
> Interesting new concept coming from your mouth.
>
> I have over the past years submitted endless suggestions for cleaning up and
> correcting the structure and content of our tabularium. I have been met -
> by you, among others - with nothing but derision or by simply being ignored.
>
> I didn't create a single one of these laws. I have worked repeatedly to try
> to fix them. So if I'm the one who has been trying to fix them, who are you
> now blaming? Yourself, for ignoring me? Others of your..."faction", for
> doing the same?
>
> Not one of you has put forth even the idea of a law or set of laws intended
> to help clear out this mess. I have.
>
> Blame yourself and your friends.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Anna,
> > yes, and it would be better if the people who created the conflicting laws
> > in the first place stopped blaming those who have been trying to fix them.
> > But that's wishful thinking, right, Anna?
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 1:21 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Why I left Nova Roma !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> > <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Caesar sal.
> > >
> > > Ah, but if you incorporate for legal purposes you are obliged to act
> > > legally,
> > > within the bounds of state law.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > Yep. So you better make sure the organizational bylaws don't conflict and
> > create idiotic messes.
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Anna Bucci
> >
>

Salvete,

It would seem that Yahoo got hungry and ate my message, so I'm re-sending it. Naturally, as soon as I do the original will magically appear, so I will apologize for the duplicate ahead of time. Valete, Caeca

C. Mariae Caeca A. Tullia Scholastica, Senatrici, L. Cornelio Sullae Felici
Senatorique S. P. D.

Scholastica, Amica, As I remember things (and no, I have not checked the
archives, which is difficult for me at the best of times), M. Hortensia
Maior was, indeed the first to mention dissolution, supported almost
immediately by former cives Anna Bucci. The proposal of partition was
presented by Octavius Gracchus (sp?) simultaneously on the Main List and the
Backalley. Interestingly, the reaction on the BA mirrored that here ...some
strongly in favor, some strongly against. Nothing got "cooked up" on the
BA, but, naturally, it did get discussed, as it did here.

As to the upcoming Senate meeting ...I certainly wish Dexter Tribune
success, but I expect that if he does convene the Senate, one of several
things will happen, immediately.

1. Albucius Consul will veto the session.
2. Quintilianus Consul will veto the session.
3. Piscinus Pontifex maximus will find some religeous reason that the
session cannot be held.
Piscanus, Auger Maior, will either say that the session is impossible
because the auspices are bad, or find another reason for stopping the
session.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but you express, I think, and accurately,
the level of frustration that many citizens feel.

Sulla Felix Senator, you are proud of your list, with good reason, and you
object to seeing it judged harshly and erroneously, which I fully
understand, having become quite defensive about my own little list. So,
before I address your response to Scholastica, (which I fully intend to do),
I would like to speak of the Backalley to everyone, for just a minute.

I've been there for a couple of years, and I've seen everything from people
acting like ravening wolves, to the same people discussing sensitive topics
with intelligence, thoughtfulness, and fine scholarship, to people sharing
music, videos, quips, jokes, and having a grand time. The atmosphere there
is different than here, entirely, but its purpose is also entirely
different. True, everything and anything can, and has happened, and I have
seen the owners put an end to things when they got too confrontational or
abusive, though that line is way different there than here, as it should be.
Are there personal attacks against individuals who aren't subscribed? Yes.
People vent, and, frankly, there should be a safe place to vent. Are there
plots to overthrow NR there? No, not that I have ever seen, and I read
pretty much everything. There was a discussion of the Civil war in 1999?
and some theoretical speculation as to how, given the structure of our
virtual presence, one might be conducted now, and if I remember correctly,
the conclusion was that since there are so many lists and ways of
communicating, it would be virtually impossible.

However, and*this* is important, some of the same people who speculated
informally *also* have fought tooth and nail to keep this Res Publica
together. I interpreted what I read as nothing more than the healthy
criticism of the Government, of the regime in power, and of current (well,
then current) events. In short, things in the BA can get very ugly, very
interesting, and, sometimes, very wonderful. I have read things there that
horrified me because of their needless viciousness, and I have, on rare
occasions, responded to some of those things, for personal reasons (and no,
I was *NOT* under attack), but I have also seen people demonstrate care and
support for other members, there, as well.

Now, Sulla Senator. Had you responded only so what Senatrix Scholastica
*said*, I would have posted none of this, since debating issues, even
heatedly, is fair game. But in my opinion, you crossed that line by making
your responses personal, condescending, and vicious. Then you invited her
to join your list, and offered more personal insults. Had I been addressed
so, I'm not sure whether I would have burst out laughing, or thrown your
invitation back at you (hard with electrons, I know), but I rather suspect
you have insured that Scholastica will *never* join the BA. I certainly
would not have, had I been invited to do so publicly, in such a way.


Valete,
C. Maria Caeca


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 9/24/2010 4:11 PM, Jean Courdant wrote:

>
> Salve Seneca,
>
> Forgive my rudeness for not including in my very first message to you
> that I
> think the Facebook prototype is coming along nicely!
>
> Great Job!
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>

Salve Priscus, thank you very much! I'll take this opportunity to plug
it again ;)

http://nrfb.korsoft.com/

And I'll reiterate what I posted there: whether or not you agree with
what I posted earlier, every Nova Roman and any prospective members are
welcome there. I'm building the site but it belongs to all of us.

Optime vale!
Seneca


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Nonas Octobris; haec dies comitialis est.

"To their religious performances were added the pleasures of wine and
feasting, to allure a greater number of proselytes. When wine,
lascivious discourse, night, and the intercourse of the sexes had
extinguished every sentiment of modesty, then debaucheries of every
kind began to be practiced, as every person found at hand that sort of
enjoyment to which he was disposed by the passion predominant in his
nature. Nor were they confined to one species of vice - the
promiscuous intercourse of free-born men and women; but from this
store-house of villainy proceeded false witnesses, counterfeit seals,
false evidences, and pretended discoveries. From the same place, too,
proceeded poison and secret murders, so that in some cases, not even
the bodies could be found for burial. Many of their audacious deeds
were brought about by treachery, but most of them by force; it served
to conceal the violence, that, on account of the loud shouting, and
the noise of drums and cymbals, none of the cries uttered by the
persons suffering violence or murder could be heard abroad.

The infection of this mischief, like that from the contagion of
disease, spread from Etruria to Rome; where, the size of the city
affording greater room for such evils, and more means of concealment,
cloaked it at first; but information of it was at length brought to
the consul, Postumius. There was a freedwoman called Hispala Fecenia,
a noted courtesan who gave a full account of the origin of the
mysteries. 'At first,' she said, 'those rites were performed by women.
No man used to be admitted. They had three stated days in the year on
which persons were initiated among the Bacchanalians, in the daytime.
The matrons used to be appointed priestesses, in rotation. Paculla
Minia, a Campanian, when priestess, made an alteration in every
particular, as if by the direction of the gods. For she first
introduced men, who were her own sons, Minucius and Herrenius, both
surnamed Cerrinius; changed the time of celebration, from day to
night; and, instead of three days in the year, appointed five days of
initiation, in each month.

From the time that the rites were thus made common, and men were
intermixed with women, and the licentious freedom of the night was
added, there was nothing wicked, nothing flagitious, that had not been
practiced among them. There were more frequent pollution of men with
each other than with women. If any were less patient in submitting to
dishonor, or more averse to the commission of vice, they were
sacrificed as victims. To think nothing unlawful was the grand maxim
of their religion. The men, as if bereft of reason, uttered
predictions, with frantic contortions of their bodies; the women, in
the habit of Bacchantes, with their hair disheveled, and carrying
blazing torches, ran down to the Tiber; where, dipping their torches
in the water, they drew them up again with the flame unextinguished,
being composed of native sulphur and charcoal. They said that those
men were carried off by the gods, whom the machines laid hold of and
dragged from their view into secret caves. These were such as refused
to take the oath of the society, or to associate in their crimes, or
to submit to defilement. This number was exceedingly great now, almost
a second state in themselves, and among them were many men and women
of noble families. During the last two years it had been a rule, that
no person above the age of twenty should be initiated; for they sought
for people of such age as made them more liable to suffer deception
and personal abuse.'" - Livy, History of Rome 39.8-16 [ed.]


"The consuls Quintus Marcius son of Lucius and Spurius Postumius son
of Lucius consulted the senate on the Nones of October in the Temple
of Bellona. Present at the writing of the decree were Marcus Claudius
son of Marcus, Lucius Valerius son of Publius, and Quintus Minucius
son of Gaius. Concerning the rites of Bacchus among the federated
peoples they decreed that the following edict be made:

'Let none of them be minded to have a shrine of Bacchus. If there are
any who say that they must needs have a shrine of Bacchus, they must
come to the Urban Praetor at Rome and, when their case has been heard,
our senate must make a decision on this, provided that not fewer than
one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed. Let
no man, whether Roman citizen or Latin ally or other ally, be minded
to go to a meeting of Bacchantes, unless they have gone to the Urban
Praetor and he has authorised it in accordance with a decision of the
senate, provided that not fewer than one hundred senators were present
when the matter was discussed.'

They decreed:

'Let no man be a priest. Let no-one, man or woman, be a master. Let
none of them be minded to keep a common fund. Let no-one be minded to
make any man or woman an official or a temporary official. Henceforth
let no-one be minded to conspire, collude, plot or make vows in common
among themselves or to pledge loyalty to each other. Let none of them
be minded to hold sacred rites in secret. Let none of them be minded
to hold sacred rites in public or in private or outside the city,
unless they have gone to the Urban Praetor and he has authorised it in
accordance with a decision of the senate, provided that not more than
one hundred senators were present when the matter was discussed.'

They decreed:

'Let no group of more than five people in all, counting both men and
women, be minded to hold sacred rites; and let no more than two men or
three women be minded to be present, unless authorised by the Urban
Praetor and the senate as above.'

You are to publicize these decrees at a public meeting over a period
of not less than three market days, and you must keep in mind the
decree of the senate, which was as follows: 'If there are any who
transgress against the decrees set out above, a capital charge is to
be brought against them'. You are to engrave this on a bronze tablet
(this also the senate decreed) and are to give orders that it be set
it up where it can most easily be read. And you are to see to it that
such shrines of Bacchus as now exist (if any) are disbanded in
accordance with the above decree within ten days from the time when
you receive these tablets, unless they contain any genuinely sacred
thing. In the territory of the Teuri." - SENATUS CONSULTUM DE
BACCANALIBUS, 186 BC


Today was the celebration of the Bacchanalia until outlawed by the
Senate. The Bacchanalia were wild and mystic festivals of the Roman
god Bacchus. Introduced into Rome from lower Italy by way of Etruria
(c. 200 BC), the Bacchanalia were originally held in secret and
attended by women only. The festivals occurred on three days of the
year in the grove of Simila near the Aventine Hill. Later, admission
to the rites was extended to men and celebrations took place five
times a month. According to Livy, the extension happened in an era
when the leader of the Bacchus cult was Paculla Annia - though it is
now believed that some men had participated before that.

Livy informs us that the rapid spread of the cult, which he claims
indulged in all kinds of crimes and political conspiracies at its
nocturnal meetings, led in 186 BC to a decree of the Senate — the
so-called Senatus consultum de Baccanalibus, inscribed on a bronze
tablet discovered in Apulia in Southern Italy (AD 1640), now at the
Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna — by which the Bacchanalia were
prohibited throughout all Italy except in certain special cases which
must be approved specifically by the Senate. In spite of the severe
punishment inflicted on those found in violation of this decree (Livy
claims there were more executions than imprisonment), the Bacchanalia
survived in Southern Italy long past the repression.

Valete bene!

Cato

<<--- On Sat, 10/2/10, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:

[cut]
 
<<As to the upcoming Senate meeting ...I certainly wish Dexter Tribune
success, but I expect that if he does convene the Senate, one of several
things will happen, immediately.

1. Albucius Consul will veto the session.
2. Quintilianus Consul will veto the session.
3. Piscinus Pontifex maximus will find some religeous reason that the
session cannot be held.
Piscanus, Auger Maior, will either say that the session is impossible
because the auspices are bad, or find another reason for stopping the
session.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but you express, I think, and accurately,
the level of frustration that many citizens feel.>>
 
 
 
No doubt many citizens are feeling frustrated these days, but you are quite wrong in your "assumptions".
I know that Tribune Dexter will certainly do his best to convene the Senate, if he choses to do so, according to the powers given to the Tribunes in the Constitution, and that he will do it in a way that will give neither Consul any just reason to veto the session.
Nor would the Pontifex Maximus involved himself in this in any way as the Tribunes are not required to take auspices to convene the Senate. It is clearly stated in the Constitution. (Or you could have asked Tribune Dexter. I'm sure he would have done his best to answer any questions.)
I realize that the level of frustration is running very high in Nova Roma at the moment, but adding to the confusion that is already rife on the ML will not help.
 
Vale bene,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Former Tribuna Plebis 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And just to add further clarification: this past week, California was hit with an unusually intense heat wave that caused record high temperatures across the state. (Yahoo's headquarters are based here in California.) There were many outages and equipment failures reported everywhere, affecting homes and businesses alike. This heat wave was followed by thunderstorms with severe lighning that caused further problems. We have been told it will end today, but problems are still being dealt with as I write this and as I was cleaning out my inbox yesterday, I found several "new" emails that are dated from early last week. So yep, expect some delays while the mess here gets cleaned up.
 
Valete,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 
  

--- On Fri, 10/1/10, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:


From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] FW: FYI re delayed delivery of messages
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 1, 2010, 7:02 PM


 




> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
> For your information from the horse¹s mouth [Yahoo moderators re delayed
> message delivery:
>
>
> ==============
>
> Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:52 pm (PDT)
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> check out our most recent blog post:
> http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/?p=958
>
> Some messages have been delayed (possibly as many as five days) due to an
> outage on one of our mail machines. We are in the process of sending out the
> delayed messages and expect to catch up in the next few days. You do not have
> to resend any messages.
>
> Thank you for your patience.
>
> ============
>
>
> Valete.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Octavius Priscus C. Lucretio Senecae sal.

You're quite welcome!

It's not that I necessarily disagree with any of your statements about the
parties. I just wonder if it would be more beneficial to the Res Publica to try
and broker some sort of reconciliation as opposed to antagonizing one side or
another.

I would also like to state strongly here in the ML that I agree wholeheartedly
with your efforts to build a site that belongs to all Nova Romans as I think
your wording may lead some to think that I would have it otherwise; not that I
believe that was your intent, just your word choices.

My previous comments, as to the dispute, were strictly focused on your reaction
to the discourse and in no way was meant to suggest that the Nova Roma Facebook
Prototype be in anyway restricted. I just want to clarify that.

Optime Vale!






________________________________
From: Gaius Lucretius Seneca <c.lucretius.seneca@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 6:41:06 PM
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] The Dispute

On 9/24/2010 4:11 PM, Jean Courdant wrote:
>
> Salve Seneca,
>
> Forgive my rudeness for not including in my very first message to you
> that I
> think the Facebook prototype is coming along nicely!
>
> Great Job!
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Octavius Priscus
>

Salve Priscus, thank you very much! I'll take this opportunity to plug
it again ;)

http://nrfb.korsoft.com/

And I'll reiterate what I posted there: whether or not you agree with
what I posted earlier, every Nova Roman and any prospective members are
welcome there. I'm building the site but it belongs to all of us.

Optime vale!
Seneca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]